# Never thought I would be posting here



## Hoosier

Hello all. Here is my story. As you may or may not know I stumbled on this site about 4 months ago when I googled "My wife doesnt love me anymore"..I have been posting on the sex in marriage, and mens rooms, but liteally had not looked at this forum, because that was not the problem. I have been going thru 2.5 years of hell at home, no real affection, lots of resentment from both my W and me, some pretty rough times. I have contemplated divorce,but was reluctant to give up on my 30 year marriage, felt like this was the "worse" in "B or W" and I really take that vow seriously. My kids are all but grown one is going to be a Junior in college, the other two are 24 and married, and 27 bipolar and a constant source of frustation, exasperation (putting it mildly, but to tell that story would take a novel, and I am afraid this one is going to be too long as it is). In December 2009, my troubled one moved back home (from UTAH where she had lived for 3 years, and had refussed to talk to us, wrote us off,) and that was a disaster! Her time here was STRESSFUL finally she got her own place in Florida, but before she was gone my wife was prescribed anti depressent, and I believe the meds, along with that smothering stress brought on her subsequent lack of libido. and a slide into the abyss. (more here as well) Couple of months ago: my W who does not work outside the home, started doing odd jobs working with a family friend of 22 years (if there is a power tool in our home it is hers not mine) and at first I was happy, I was actually glad that she was doing something that seemed to make her happy ( a VERY rare occurance) and the little extra money would come in handy as well, especially since she seem to really like haveing her own money (I am not wealthy but we live a nice suburban americana lifestile, but the little she made helped pump her ego) I became suspicious of her relationship with this friend as they did a lot of things together...went to auction sales together (buying tools, I get bored easily at auctions, she loves them, the OM was happy to go with her, as he likes auctions as well) etc. Saturday nite I waited for her to fall asleep, then checked her cell phone, and on there were these texts from the OM, professing his love for her. Looking at the "sent" messages, I saw where she expressed her love for him..."thank u for loving me" "I needed you so much" so at 3:00 am I loaded my shotgun and headed for his house, not to shoot him but to put loads of double ought buckshot into his car and truck. As i patroled the area to make sure no cops were about my head cleared a bit and I realized to do jail time would just be stupid, so I proceeded to drive around thinking a million thoughts, my head spinning. after an hour or so I drove back past his house (he lives 5 minutes from me) and parked in front was my wife. She had found the empty gun box figured out where I was (there is some info missing here how she figured it out etc..but god you people dont need to be reading this until next year). As I drove up, she jumped out of her car and ran over to me saying, "Your problem is with me, not with him!" I rolled down my window and said "You are right you s**t! "You go right now and pack your bags and get the hell out of my house!" She then said "I love him, he treats me better than you ever have!" "You have never treated me good" She proceeded to drive home, load her suitcases and leave, going to his house. Now this is Sunday 4am. On monday I received a tearful phone call,on my voice mail informing me that she wasnt going to "take me to the cleaners". I texted her"What do you want?" "My attorneys name isXXX and his phone is YYYY." was her reply. I called the att. and all she basically wanted was her personal things and $50k. Now her half of our assets would be worth much more than that the vast majority tied up in our business not liquid at all and if forced to sell in this market easily $300k would be lost. I had been concerned that I would be forced to sell to pay her off, so that made me breathe a little easier. I know the attrny, picked up on my surprise and he state"all she wants is to get this over with and get on with life." A friend had explained to me that in Indiana, a H and W if they can agree on the split of assets, can use one attrny draw up an agreement, sign it, give it to a judge to sign and 60 days later Boom! u are D. I asked if that were true and it was. So I texted my wife back that I was basically in agreement, thought we could go this route. "Fine As long as it is not contested" says she. Today I met with my attrny, he agreeded to review the doc. for me. I then called her guy back, discussed a couple of items he had brought up, mentioned that she missed her 20+ oil lamps and she would want them on the list, and in 20 minutes hammered out the basics of the entire agreement.
Tonight as I looked the texts over, I believe strongly that this was the very first encounter, and triggered by my being an ass, and going to the office to get away from her (I have done a LOT of that the last two years) not giving her any breaks but just acknowledging my fault in this as well 
This knowledge has caused me to loose 90% of my anger!, still have 100% of the hurt of betrayal, but thinking for the first time this might be saveable (cant believe I am saying this) as I still do very much love my wife. I havent been able to stand living with her the last two years, bt I can remember back just before that, my youngest started college, we were empty nesters, and loving it and each other. best 4 months of our marriage! So my inclination is to hurry thru the D to conserve our business, then thinking about looking into Recon. I have read the forums everyday for these last 4 months, and kinda know were we REALLY went wrong, know enough to realize at least we have something we can work on with the right help. Am I delusional? I realize she would have to be willing to try, and all that but am I just in denial? Will I wake up 3 wks from now and hate her all over again, a product of this WAVE of emotion I have been on? is this just me wishing?


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## Hoosier

if you are interested my first posting was in May of this year, under sex in marriage, titled "I am furious" and actually I updated that posting a couple days before this explosion so it is near the top....if you are interested.


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## BigToe

I think you're dreaming, but all she can do is say "no", so it certainly wouldn't hurt to try. However, it would seem your regrets are momentary and based upon memories. Don't forget to also give weight to the bad memories. There were reasons you went to the office to get away from her which seemed VERY reasonable at the time.


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## Hoosier

I dont understand "momentary" but actually before our 4 month empty nest, i would rate our marriage as better than average, just those 4 months were awesome, our business was doing well, money issue still existed (own your own business..huh!) but I felt were were going from pretty good to Great! then she arrived.


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## Hoosier

As luck would have it, we were scheduled to fly to Florida together today to see about my troubled ones new baby that, because of her mother, is temporarily in the welfare system I backed out of going, my W is going tommorow as there is a hearing on Thursday concerning her care. My W has to stay there for 4 weeks to care for the baby along with my daughter, while she completes some evaluations otherwise my gandbaby goes into the system. At least she will be away from the OM for a while.


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## BigToe

Hoosier said:


> I dont understand "momentary" but actually before our 4 month empty nest, i would rate our marriage as better than average, just those 4 months were awesome, our business was doing well, money issue still existed (own your own business..huh!) but I felt were were going from pretty good to Great! then she arrived.


My point was that you seem to be having regrets because the divorce is imminent. I think that's natural. You are remembering the good times. I was suggesting that you don't forget the bad times because they were as real as the good times. Assuming your wife had a change of heart what makes you think after a few months you both wouldn't just fall back into the same routine?


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## jnj express

Hey Hoosier----do you think her lust for this guy----is a result of being with you for 30 yrs., and things just got boring, tired, same old, same old---I know you had an exciting 4 mths with her recently,---but it was still the same old you, and the same old ways----do you think just maybe, that this new spice (her lover) came from her being seduced, as I am sure she probably was, and because she was just in hot passionate lust---the way the 2 of you were in the beginning yrs., of your mge., and maybe in that recent 4 month period

Obviously she was demonizing you, in order to justify her lust---

It is very possible that once she really sees reality with her lover, the everyday things that happen when you are with someone full time, having to deal with all of life's problems---that he won't measure up---question then becomes, will you still want her---knowing that for a period of time, she did not want you

You don't seem to have much choice at this point----if you really do want her----just bide your time---and see how it all goes down

Hook-ups from A's have a 97% failure rate---so just wait her out---She will eventually see the grass is not greener, but it is really a dirty shade of brown.


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## morituri

Frankly her total lack of remorse and desire to divorce you, says that your 30 year old marriage is over and you need to move on with life. Unlike other men in your situation, your divorce won't wipe you out financially. Take it before she changes her mind.

Read the links below my signature, especially the one titled "Just Let Them Go" which I believe can help you with moving on with your life.

As JNJ said, she needs to experience reality with the OM.


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## Hoosier

JNJ: I dont think it is a lust thing for her so much as my treating her like s**t, (which I did her, she did me) for the last 2 years, this guy comes along, he is a real likeable fellow, he starts paying attention to her, does things with her......

monty, at the intial confrontation it was no remorse, but I kinda think the $ offer, was a direct reflection of her feeling guilty....again I might be wrong...but as I write this at 5am, having been up all night again, I am thinking that I never even talked with her, had a good ol yelling match, and realize that for the last 2 years I havent either and I think that is a mistake, I am a nonconfirmational keep to yourself kinda guy (this is ONE area of weakness) when it comes to relationships, instead of getting any problem out in the open I hold it in and the resentment grows and it has grown HUGH....and in another posting AEFH pointed out that her actions at that time were "passively agressive".... I read alot about what that is and realized I am just as guilty of doing that to her! (this is where our counseling should start) Im thinking two things 1. How dare I not be there for my grandbaby tomorrow, just because of my W and my problems. That is not what I am about, my family has always meant the most to me. If I am guilty of anything there, it is that over the years I have locked into my work to make things good for them, when I should have been working more on being a better person for them (I have my own issues) and 2. Doesnt 30 years deserve more from me than a "get the hell out of my house, dont EVEN talk to me"? 
I am booking a flight to Florida, I will be at that hearing tomorrow where I SHOULD BE. I will get to see my grandaughter (1st) for only the second time in her 5 months of being on this earth. I am going to ask my W to talk to me, I am going to ask her if she would be willing to try. I dont think she will, but I really should ask. Hell I was 16 when we started dating and I am 51 almost 52 now. I am not totally scared to go on without her if she does not want to try, but I really should ask her, not beg, not plead, ask her if she wants to...

s**t do you know how much tickets cost when you buy them the day you want to travel? crapola, but its booked I am going to be there tonight, for tomorrow mornings hearing and I'm going to ask....definitely nuts I know, I realize that it is probably 80/20 against me, I dont really think desperate, but if I dont ask I will NEVER be able to forgive myself...she says no, I am prepared to continue on without her, and I realize that even if she says yes, a real crapshoot for success at best. But 30 years deserves more than a "you sl*t" on the street ending. Lets see, I now have 3.5 hours to get my haircut, get some new shoes, (important to look good for the Judge) pack my overnight bag, make out my payroll, and get on the road. Guess I will sleep on the plane.


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## Hicks

I would take the deal as fast as possible.
Your chance of reconciliation is not high. If you start trying to reconcile, she will come to her senses. Your ultimate divorce after trying to reconcile will involve selling your business and you giving her spousal support. I would take the deal in a heartbeat. You can always reconcile after that.


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## AFEH

Hicks said:


> I would take the deal as fast as possible.
> Your chance of reconciliation is not high. If you start trying to reconcile, she will come to her senses. Your ultimate divorce after trying to reconcile will involve selling your business and you giving her spousal support. I would take the deal in a heartbeat. You can always reconcile after that.


Massive wisdom in those words.


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## morituri

I can understand you feeling bad over your poor choice of words on that night you went over the OM house. And I also understand your need to give reconciliation one more shot before moving on. But what you should understand is that any attempt on your part may be viewed by her as a manipulative, disingenuous, ego tripping tactic designed not because you truly love her but because you don't want to let the OM have her.

People, like animals, tend to want to get as far away as possible from someone who is aggressively pursuing them and your wife is no exception. So instead of pursuing her, behave in such a manner that will make her want to pursue you. Showing her that you want her to be happy even if it means divorcing her in order for her to make a life with the OM, is one of the ways of you abandoning pursuit of her. Your wife has not had to deal with the OM 24/7 so her view of him is more fantasy based than reality based. She may discover that the OM is not actually who he appears to be. Even a 62 year old man can be a player.

Hicks is right. Divorcing her now is simply a formality and there is always the possibility of reconciliation and remarriage later on after her affair with the OM tanks. This is also an opportunity for you to work on bettering yourself emotionally and physically so if there is a reconciliation after the divorce, she'll be attracted to the new you.

Again I strongly suggest that you read the initial post of my thread titled Just Let Them Go.


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## lordmayhem

Whatever your faults were, there is NEVER any excuse to cheat. She made her choice to go f*ck another man instead of communicating with you, going to counseling, or divorcing you. Instead she chose the easy route - to cheat. Like most betrayed spouses, you are grasping at straws and taking the blame for her adultery. You are in survival mode and willing to do anything to save the marriage. This is only temporary.

Now you are chasing after her. This never works. She is deep in the affair fog with her OM. She is only concerned with her feelings and her OM at this point. Any attempt by you to chase her only results in her looking down on you and feeling this is too little, too late. You are basically wasting your time and money here. If you want to be there for your grand child, fine, but begging your WW to give it a chance is fruitless. Do you think you are going to be able to woo her back into your arms?

You cannot compete with a fantasy, and what she has with him is a fantasy. He can be the perfect prince charming right now, be everything in her eyes that you cannot ever be. Thats how these affair fantasies work. 

You have to work on letting her go.


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## sigma1299

Hicks said:


> I would take the deal as fast as possible.
> Your chance of reconciliation is not high. If you start trying to reconcile, she will come to her senses. Your ultimate divorce after trying to reconcile will involve selling your business and you giving her spousal support. I would take the deal in a heartbeat. You can always reconcile after that.





AFEH said:


> Massive wisdom in those words.


Exact same thing I was thinking. You can always go back and reconcile if that is truly what you both want. Right now your business could very well hang in the balance.


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## Catherine602

I have not posted in a while but after reading this I feel compelled to respond to your post. 
Hoosier 
I think you need to think carefully about a number of things before you give up on your marriage. 

Money. If you get out quick you walk away with a lions share of the assets. If that the most important thong for you then you need go no further in your deliberations. However, you will have to balance having the money against not giving a 30 yr good marriage any effort. Factor in also that your finances wil figure heavily on future relationships. A new woman will evaluate your ability to provide for her. If it's s younger woman she will have kids or want them. I think the money issue is a wash. You have it but not for long. 

Salvageability of the relationship. A few things to consider - you had a more than good relationship for 30 yrs, the short empty nest period was intense. Very fortunate for you both. Then your daughter went through yourlives like a bad disease. Not so good. 

The stress pulled you apart from your wife. You both made mistakes in handling the stress. You mentioned you escaped into work and maybe not giving your wife the emotional support and physical presence that she expected of man who she had been good to for so long. . Your wife may have felt shocked that you abandoned her and left her to handle the stress. 

Her mistake was the daddy of them all she betrayed you. She is not remorseful, yet. 

Your effort to salvage your 30 yr marriage. I think you efforts have been negligible. Somewhat suppressing given the preceding 30 yrs. The bad times were not you or your wife's, it was something niether of you could have predicted. If your wife caused the problems then you would have reason to cut and run. 

Try to step into her shoes for a moment. You her husband of 30 cut out on her when she needed you the most duting a time of great stress. Then you confirms her lack of value to you by getting out quick for 50k because thinking things through and trying to keep her in your life might cost you too much. Wow Don't you think that 30 yrs and 3 children, working together to build a bisiness is worth some careful consideration? If she gets her fair share of the things that she helped make. 

You both have much to think about, if don't slow this process down, , you will both deeply regret it I think. I am not blaming you but asking you to put every thing on the table to consider not just money. Think then act. No matter what you do look at your sense of fairness, ability to give as much as you take, ability to appreciate the people in your life. These issues will come in any future relationship so you may as well work on them or you are destined to fail.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ArmyofJuan

Hicks said:


> I would take the deal as fast as possible.
> Your chance of reconciliation is not high. If you start trying to reconcile, she will come to her senses. Your ultimate divorce after trying to reconcile will involve selling your business and you giving her spousal support. I would take the deal in a heartbeat. You can always reconcile after that.


I third or fourth or whatever this.

Odds are the relationship with the OM will die at around the 6 month mark give or take. She'll start to miss the old marriage by then.

After the D you will hold all the cards. If there's a chance to R it has to be on your terms with her basically begging to R. Like I said, that will be a few months from now after the A dies a natural death (reality overcomes fantasy).

Work on bettering yourself during this time for the next relationship either with her or someone else.


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## sinnister

I really don't think it's salvageable either. Sorry to say that. But at the same time it may be better for you. You were going through a lot of pain and misery in a relationship where you just knew she didnt love you.


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## Hoosier

Well after the trip from HELL (cracked windshield in plane made me miss connection causeing me to get to Florida 12 hours after original start time (my iteneriy was suppose to be 5) then second air port had major storms backing up flights for hours I have NEVER had atravel experience like that. All the way down here I made notes of things I wanted to address, I mean pages. I get here, go online, read the comments fromn Hicks, AFEH, Sinister. lord Mayhem and especially Moritari's just let them go. and it is like a fog has cleared. So much great imput! Thank you all. I am going about my grandaughter tommorrow so glad I came for her cant wait to see her. After reading all these I really like the "hope he makes you happy approach" because you are right. no matter what I say she is in LOVE with him I wont change that. I know the OM (remember 22 years) he is a neat nick...she is boarder line horder with the line getting thinner and thinner every year. He is going to die! she cant help herself. Thats going to be revenge enough against him. I KNOW IT Is coming! LOL I gain nothing to even really try tomorrow and I am not going to I am going to be civil, polite, but firm. I am going to shine tomorow (I am excellent in these type situations) I had to laugh, she flew down, and had to take the bus from the airport to downtown, where my daughter picked her up, just to save one day on the car rental! She is definitely not use to that, I am sure she is fine with it, as the young lovers are taking it on together, but that kind of deal will get old to her eventually. I also did remember how miserable I was (it wasoverwhelming at times). because I knew she didnt love me.then the unbelieveable happened... I kinda got hit on in the air port! (I always travel with the W before) that was a differnt experience. I have received SO many calls from concerned friends that I cant help but feel loved. Tomorrow right before I leave to go to the courthouse I am going to read thru the Just let them go thread again to get primed. I am going to be fine. I am not saying I would never consider R, butthat would require a lot of counseling I will wait for her to start and she never does that is her choice as well, A lot of good times in the meantime in fact did you know that Vegas is on the way home from florida? LOL the advice to improve myself is excellent as well. It is just so unbelieveable how my emotions have kicked my a** got to be careful of that, actually ate a sandwhich today, first food in three days, really. I will make it! looking forward to a few months of chilling adn finding new things to do. Not looking for any woman anytime soon, gonna get me shaped up, and chill with my buds, thanks again all of you. I will be vigilant against the despair I have felt 2-3 times a day, wont let it take me. I can be nice to her, cause I know her betrayal is going to eat at her. especially if I give her no reason to hate me. Where is that agreement? where do I sign? oh there is no spousal support in Indiana. going to bed to sleep havent been able to do that lately,,,feeling sleepy now... Betrayal........it can kill ya with emotions it causes.


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## AFEH

Hoosier when the emotions get “dark” say to yourself “This too shall pass”. I came out of a 42 year relationship/marriage. I learnt these things do pass and that single thought helped me greatly.


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## Hoosier

Update: I am back in Indiana, she is still In Florida seeing about our grandchild. Things are going good in that field, the authorities have approved my daughters home for the baby and now seem to be actively engaged in returning her to my daughter and W. (The deal is my W is actually the caretaker for the baby, it is hoped that in the next couple of weeks or so, daughter will have complete care and custody of the baby, at which time my W is going to return to Indiana) The night before I left to come back we were working on the apartment until rather late, we set down to relax, I looked at her and she said "what are you looking at" thanks for giving me an opening. We had a 2 hr conversation, and a lot of good information was exchanged. I expressed my love for her, learned that she has really been suffering for the last 4 years. I explained to her that I felt that thru lots and lots of counseling we could be together and things would be as they should have been not the way they were. As it was after 1 am in the morning she said she just felt numb and would not answer me as to yea or nay on the reconcil. The next morning (monday of this week) as I was preparing to go to the airport I told her, "I will trade you even up...your last 4 years of troubles from me for the last 2 weeks of what you did to me" with that I left. Since then I attended the first counseling session I have ever had. And was please to find out that the discussion we had and what was said was almost exactly what the counselor suggested. We find out today if the baby goes to my W and daughter (social worker believes that to be the case) at my counselors suggestion I am going to wait until Sunday (letting things settle a bit down there) before I call and ask her decision. That phone call scares me to death! I have practiced the paragraph from "Just let them go" for when they cant make a decision, telling them that you will make it for them. My heart sinks, my stomach rolls my blood pressure rises when I think of making that call. But I WILL make the call! I will require an answer, I will live with her choice.....I have a sheet prepared for the call. One side is NO/Unsure....it contains the paragarph from just let them go. the other side is Yes (work on marriage) on it, it contains 1. Divorce will continue. 2. you will call the OM immediately and tell him that you have decided to work on your marriage. You will tell him to do not contact you, and if he does in any way you will notify me immediately. You will tell him to box up what belongings he has at his home put them on his porch, call my office ( I am his insurance agent) and I will arrange for someone other than myself to pick them up. (To refresh your memory, upon discovering the PA/EA I told her to leave which she did in the middle of the night...going to his house, two days later she went to Florida) 3. I will set up a time for you to start counseling by phone so when you get back we will be up and running. Does anyone have any additions, corrections, comments on my list? I have some friends who tell me I am in denial about my situation, and they are probably right. But I needed to do what I could in order to live with myself in the future. I pray each day to have the strength to carry out this plan. I already belonged to a gym, I am a swimmer, but have started working out on the machines for the first time, and I really really like it. I have lost 18 pounds from this in 12 days, a good start, not the best way to go about it, but still a good start. I have been spending lots of time with my college student child who is home for the summer. sworn off any alcohol (therapist asked me about liqour, which I was drinking a bottle of wine a night, when I told her I havent had a drop she raised an eyebrow, and I explained the alcohol is a depressent and I figure I dont need anymore depressing, I need to keep my head clear) and sworn off tv. (which I use to veg in front of everynight after drinking wine) chosing instead to work in my yard or do an activity with my kid. I have had dinner each nite at the dinning room table with her (we were notorious eat in front of the tv people, which I never liked) and I am making plans to go out Saturday nite on a "friend" date with a woman I know with the intent on getting dating hints from her for when I start dating again....thats going to be a while. ( I started dating my wife 35 years ago today...today! and I am 51 so I never even really dated anyone else. that is real scary. Dread the phone call, but also look forward to knowing which way I am going in the future. comments?


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## sigma1299

Can't tell you if the decision to give her the opportunity to pursue reconciliation is the right one or not, but I damn sure understand the need to try everything you can. You sound really well prepared and like you're actually dealing with it all well. One observation - and I may get blasted for this - but if I have the timeline right you're having your moment of truth phone call with your wife on Sunday. You're have a "date" with a woman "friend" on Saturday. Sorry but these seem a little contradictory and maybe not the best idea. I'm all about plan for the best but prepare for the worst - I might put that date off until I had that phone call...


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## Hoosier

Thanks sig, exactly why I posted my plan here.... I agree, I can do that 'date" anytime, and maybe later I might want it to be other than a "friend" date....will postpone...that feels better right away.


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## Hoosier

Today has been the toughest day in a week. I am sick about Sunday nites phone call, because I think I know what the answer will NOT be....Yes work on our marriage.....with that in mind I have spent the day reading Just Let them go...I use to think I was a pretty tough guy, well this tough guy is being brought to his knees.....this really hurts.


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## jayde

Hey Hoosier . . . we're all rooting for you. No matter how hard that Sunday call will be, you have done so much to prepare yourself for it and beyond. If ever I find myself in your situation, I hope I could be as strong. keep taking care of yourself pal!


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## sigma1299

Stick to your plan - don't start second guessing yourself between now and then. You've got a good plan, you're prepared - for either out come. At this point it's a little cest la vie, la vie (sorry my French sux). To thine own self be true!! Good Luck - like jayde said - we'll be rooting for you and hoping for the best outcome - whichever one that is.


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## Hoosier

Thanks, funny how I dont really know anyone on here, but It means a lot for you to say those things.


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## seeking sanity

Whenever I read threads like this is takes me back to my D-Day and weeks and months after. It's such a lousy situation. I'm sorry you are in it. I nearly broke me.

Can I suggest that these "big decision" ulimatums work against your best interest. Right now she is essential hooked on a chemical stew of endorphines that are akin to being on drugs. And what those drugs tell her is that you make her feel bad and the OM makes her feel good, which she then has rewritten into a script that say's "he was never this, I never loved him" and whatever BS is coming out of her mouth.

If you push for a decision right now, she's going to choose him. She'll say it more like, I need time to be alone, time to think, get to know myself, but all those things mean him, not you. 

The hardest part of this first part is to get past your desire for clarity and be willing to live with uncertainty. It's so much more stressful, but if you want to reconcile it's what you need to do.

Make sense?


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## the guy

The 1st thing to come to mind after reading the last part of your post was "does she feel the same way".

I mean you have these feeling of working things out, but face it she loves the OM. Let go or at least until she lets go of OM.

If you've been reading these post at TAM then you know there is no point in forcing your feeling on your wife and until OM is out of the picture it will be a one way street for you.

The f~cked up part is alot of time the WW thinks they want the marrige but seems to always go back to OM.

I hope your trip together pans out and you guys find your selves on the same page. Just be careful b/c we all here at TAM have seen it go south months later..... again and again.

For what its worth this is more of a warning more then anything else.

Good luck I hope it works out.


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## morituri

Let her go.

Letting go is not a sign of weakness, just the opposite it shows tremendous emotional strength.

Emotional strength in a man is very attractive to a woman. It shows that a man is confident no matter what the outcome.

By telling her *"You should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"* you cease chasing her.

Animals runaway from that which is chasing them. Human beings are no different. The more you pursue your wife - who is in love with the OM - the more she'll runaway from you. It is this futile pursuit which is pushing her more and more to the OM arms.

Let her go.


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## Hoosier

Sunday nite cant get here soon enough.


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## Hoosier

Made the call, she was surprisingly unemotional. I asked if she had decided what she wanted to do, she said about what, I said R. "I dont think that is something I want to do" I told her ok (held my emotions well) wished her luck. She asked if we should wait a bit until daughter in Florida gets her affairs completely cleared up. I said no, no need to wait. No more limbo...going to sweat it until it is final.....surprisingly I feel calm, I hurt like all get out, but at least I tried....now on with my life.


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## Hoosier

I have been in denial. you were right.


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## morituri

Hoosier,

You tried my friend. There is no shame in that.

Please consider having limited contact with her to only issues pertaining the divorce. Hopefully your pain may be lessened by the absence of her presence.

In the meantime get plenty of sleep, eat healthy, exercise, go out with your buddies to have a good time. and maybe start looking for a new place to live.

Nothing in this life is certain except change.


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## lordmayhem

Sorry that's the answer that you got, but it wasn't unexpected. As you've probably found out, she's DEEP in the fog of her affair. You said she was a SAHM, and hasn't had to work for all these years, that's uncommon these days and times where both have to work to make ends meet. When cheaters are in the affair, they will always re-write the marital history, this is so they can justify what they are doing in their minds. You saw that when she said that you never treated her nice, which I'm sure isn't the case. 

Now she's OM's problem to deal with now. You haven't described OM much except that he worked with your wife on home projects and went to auctions with her. Since she left to go live in his house, does that mean he's single? 

Now that you are going to proceed to D since she rebuffed your attempts at R, expect to her to start waffling a little bit. One day she'll say she wants R, the next moment she'll want D. You have to stay strong through this. Do the 180 if you can. If you need info on it, you can PM me or look it up yourself. The 180 is a tool to help yourself detach from her, it's NOT a tool to manipulate her to get her back.


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## Hoosier

Thanks guys... I am surprised at the deep hurt going thru me right now... I had thought that I was over that part, but I guess the part of me that was in denial hadnt got hurt yet. LM you sent me via pm the 180 posting. I am going to read it everyday, probably many times each day. I know when I read that plus the Just let them go...that they are the truth. Just that after 30 years you begin to wonder if it were all a lie, life with her has been miserable the last 2.5 years, I today felt again the tug at my heart missing the intimacy that we had shared at one time. for some reason I have a hard time putting myself back say six months ago when I was hurting for lack of intimacy from her. If I could remember how miserable I was/am because of her lack of interest in me I think that would help, but for some reason those memories are hidden by the hurt from the betrayal. I am dedicated to getting the D as fast and soon as I can...cant wait for it to be done. As for him, he is 62 and his wife died of brain cancer a year and a half ago, both my W and I went to her funeral...He would come to my office quite a bit to talk about things, I offered him comfert and friendship. My counselor asked me if I missed him, HECK NO! but the betrayal by him just makes it worse. I really think had she just asked for a divorce I would have handled it much better, somehow I feel I am a loser, he is better than me, I really screwed up and I am not going to get a chance to correct it..that eats at me. I am embarressed.


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## morituri

Hoosier said:


> somehow I feel I am a loser, he is better than me, I really screwed up and I am not going to get a chance to correct it..that eats at me. I am embarrassed.


*YOU ARE NOT A LOSER!*. The real loser is your STBXW for she chose the coward's way out of the marriage. She and the OM deserve one another.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> Thanks guys... I am surprised at the deep hurt going thru me right now... I had thought that I was over that part, but I guess the part of me that was in denial hadnt got hurt yet. LM you sent me via pm the 180 posting. I am going to read it everyday, probably many times each day. I know when I read that plus the Just let them go...that they are the truth. Just that after 30 years you begin to wonder if it were all a lie, life with her has been miserable the last 2.5 years, I today felt again the tug at my heart missing the intimacy that we had shared at one time. for some reason I have a hard time putting myself back say six months ago when I was hurting for lack of intimacy from her. If I could remember how miserable I was/am because of her lack of interest in me I think that would help, but for some reason those memories are hidden by the hurt from the betrayal. I am dedicated to getting the D as fast and soon as I can...cant wait for it to be done. As for him, he is 62 and his wife died of brain cancer a year and a half ago, both my W and I went to her funeral...He would come to my office quite a bit to talk about things, I offered him comfert and friendship. My counselor asked me if I missed him, HECK NO! but the betrayal by him just makes it worse. I really think had she just asked for a divorce I would have handled it much better, somehow I feel I am a loser, he is better than me, I really screwed up and I am not going to get a chance to correct it..that eats at me. I am embarressed.


Hoosier, there is absolutely nothing that you should be embarassed or ashamed for. Infidelity hits the very best of us and the lowest of us. The OM is never better than us. He has no morals and pursued a married woman. For that, he is scum and doesnt even deserve to hold your jock. The only thing he did was stroke her ego, any scumbag can do that. 

And your WW couldn't hold her boundaries and brush him off as a married woman. She willingly went to him and eagerly gobbled up everything he was telling her. Now you KNOW why she was denying you affection, because she was giving it to HIM! As morituri said, your STBXW (Soon To Be Ex Wife) is the loser. Instead of trying to work things out with you, communicate with you, or honorably divorce you, she chose to cheat. There is never any excuse for cheating, there are always other options.

Look at my other thread, where I posted after experiencing being betrayed in an affair, do you go back and look at the marital history. Was it all a lie? Only you can know if she lied from the beginning, or had affairs that you never found out about, or if this is the first time she fell down the slippery slope to an affair.


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## seeking sanity

You are in the really tough time of this right now. The advice about exercise, friends, hobbies, taking care of yourself is all very sound. And the feelings you've written down are common - I felt them all, most of everyone else who's gone through infidelity and abandonment has felt them. 

You get to a point where you just choose to accept it. There's no going back to fix what, right now, you think you broke. But here's the thing, you didn't break it alone. It was mutual, she just chose to check out and allow herself to get propped up with the douce OM. 

After 30 years you have no hope in the short term against the attentions of a new guy. He's new and exciting, you are not. But that's all he has going for him. There is no way to recapture all the memories, all the firsts, all the important things in life that you did together. He's just a hollow prop. You hold the deep well of all the things that really mean something in life. 

At some point she'll realize that.


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## Hoosier

I am sure it is the first and only... the lie part comes when she told me that she checked out 4 years ago....I only really noticed a change last 2.5 years. I will say that she has a lot of issues always has, just that when you are 51 and you started dating 35 years ago. all the way thru college, got married 2 wks after I graduated....I will keep up my new exercise program, I really like it....but how does an old dog like me, who never really dated anyone else...start THAT process... I know it is going to be a while before I even want to, and best to wait. The thing is I tried and tried to make her happy, she will never allow herself to be happy, but like you said OM problem now. I thank god I found this site 4 months ago, if now I would be crazy right now. Helps so much to vent and learn from others experience. I do believe that she is feeling very guilty right now, just wish she would show it more. My daughter said it best when she texted me and said "dont mourn her dad, she has changed into a hateful person, always the victim never her fault" I just got to get the room to stop spinning.


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## AFEH

Such comforting words from your daughter, sounds like she knows her mum well. But I think you will mourn. It will be best for you to look up the mourning process. Understand the process, believe it or not what you are going through and will go through is “normal”. Sometimes it’s good to know that simple fact.

We grieve what we thought was the past and what we thought the future was going to be. In that way I reckon it’s a bit tougher than if the person had actually died although in some ways they have died to us. You are going to feel very deep emotions like you’ve never felt them before.

Plan ahead a little. I read once it takes a month for every year together to “get over it”. I was with my wife 42 years, that’s 3.5 years of “getting over it”. I’m 20 months separated and doing far better than I thought possible so I consider myself ahead of the game.

If you are like me at all you will be very angry. That anger needs dissipating so put it to good use by getting yourself fitter and stronger than you’ve ever been before. A multigymn and punch bags did wonders for me. If you don’t eat well change your diet to support your new fitness regime.

There really is light at the end of that tunnel. After a while it will dawn on you just how “institutionalised” you became in your marriage. You now have a wonderful opportunity to find out more about yourself, your resourcefulness, creativity and problem solving skills. Friends get a bit concerned about me living alone. I tell them I’m fine, alone but never lonely. And I’m never walking around eggshells that I didn’t even know where there.


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## turnera

Women whose children move away go through an immense life shift. Women who were SAHMs who go through this face an even bigger one - they have no other life to replace the kids with. Such women who then engage in a long-term, intensive situation with another man are practically assured of falling in love with the 'new' man, no matter who he is. It is what it is.

That said, if you want her back, you have a couple choices.

One, the way we usually perscribe: expose the affair to her important people and hope that the embarrassment will force the affair to lose its shine, and she'll realize it wasn't the amazing be-all/end-all she thought it was, and come home. At this point in her life, I'm frankly not sure it would work. She doesn't need you any more. She doesn't have kids to worry about breaking up from their dad. And your marriage, by your account, wasn't that hot to begin with.

Two, go ahead and divorce. Give her the money and consider yourself blessed to get away with that little, after 30 years. Let her live with her Wonderman and let the bloom fall off the rose, as she realizes that a man who would cheat with a married woman simply is missing some key things - like morals. Wait her out. Let her have her fling and spend the time getting to know yourself, attending IC, and IMPROVING yourself. Become an AMAZING CATCH. It will improve you, and it will teach you that you ARE an amazing catch and that, if she doesn't want you back, so what? There are millions of single women out there looking to meet a guy like you. It's not the end of the world.

The other benefit of this approach is that it gives HER time away from you, to see what she's been taking for granted for probably a good 20 years. And, if you start dating her again, once she leaves OM, you and she have a really good chance of rekindling all the things that made you fall in love with each other 30 years ago, only BETTER! This time, you are older, wiser, and much more aware of what a good relationship looks like and how to keep one going. In other words, you can have a better next 30 years (God willing) than the 30 years before that.


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## Hoosier

Last Night when I called for her decision and she said she "didnt think she wanted to do that right now" I replied with, J I love you, you have been a great mother for our kids (she really has), and you are one of the most caring people I know (before this episode and as long as it doesnt involve me, I really meant it) but obviously I cant make you happy and he does so I wish you all the best.....rest of Just let them go. We then talked about getting the attorney going on the agreement and said goodnight. So I look at my phone this am and there is a text from her. "did you say uncareing?" sent at 4:18am (we talked around 8pm) is this the wavering you all warned me about? I am not excited, think I have a chance again....not going down that road EVER AGAIN, but found that to be a really wierd text.
What say you?


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## Eli-Zor

Ignore her follow up with your plan , start going dark on her , there is no need to talk to her anymore your attorney can do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Hoosier said:


> I feel I am a loser, he is better than me, I really screwed up and I am not going to get a chance to correct it..that eats at me. I am embarressed.


Right...of the three of you, YOU are the ONE person who didn't cheat.

How does that make YOU screwed up?

Some woman is going to be damn glad to be your next partner. And she's not going to take you for granted, not going to cheat on you, and she's going to make you feel cherished and loved. All stuff you weren't getting in THIS marriage.


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## turnera

Hoosier said:


> Last So I look at my phone this am and there is a text from her. "did you say uncareing?" sent at 4:18am (we talked around 8pm) is this the wavering you all warned me about? I am not excited, think I have a chance again....not going down that road EVER AGAIN, but found that to be a really wierd text.
> What say you?


When your spouse cheats, ignore EVERYTHING SHE SAYS. Notice ONLY what she does. 

If she comes to your house at 3am begging for forgiveness and asking you how to make it up to you...THEN pay attention to her. Barring that...she is the cheating wife you ripped your heart out for her own selfishness.


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> Last Night when I called for her decision and she said she "didnt think she wanted to do that right now" I replied with, J I love you, you have been a great mother for our kids (she really has), and you are one of the most caring people I know (before this episode and as long as it doesnt involve me, I really meant it) but obviously I cant make you happy and he does so I wish you all the best.....rest of Just let them go. We then talked about getting the attorney going on the agreement and said goodnight. So I look at my phone this am and there is a text from her. "did you say uncareing?" sent at 4:18am (we talked around 8pm) is this the wavering you all warned me about? I am not excited, think I have a chance again....not going down that road EVER AGAIN, but found that to be a really wierd text.
> What say you?


Take it all at your own pace.

If you are over and done with it all, you will know it.

If you are not over and done with it all, you will know that as well.

No Man ever says enough to his wife after all those years unless he is absolutely certain, 100% certain of it as the only way. Believe me I know.


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## Hoosier

> Some woman is going to be damn glad to be your next partner. And she's not going to take you for granted, not going to cheat on you, and she's going to make you feel cherished and loved. All stuff you weren't getting in THIS marriage


WOW! just the thought of that makes it a lot better.... I have beat myself up for the lack of intimacy in our marriage for a long time...not sex, intimacy.... Thank you so much for that, I will hope for this result.


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## morituri

turnera said:


> When your spouse cheats, ignore EVERYTHING SHE SAYS. Notice ONLY what she does.
> 
> If she comes to your house at 3am begging for forgiveness and asking you how to make it up to you...THEN pay attention to her. Barring that...she is the cheating wife you ripped your heart out for her own selfishness.


:iagree:

Only actions, not words, really matter.

Actions:

1. States that she has ended all contact with OM.
2. States that she is willing to send a NC (no contact) letter to OM.
3. States that she wants to go to MC(marriage counseling) and possibly IC (individual counseling) as well.
4. States that she is more than willing to be an open book, accountable for her whereabouts.

Anything short of those 4, then she is truly not serious about reconciliation and you should continue with your no contact of her. Those are your N.U.T.S. (non-negotiable, unalterable terms).


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## Hoosier

Got that, I believe that I am a long way from that happening, if does ever...not going to wait around for that, I have to tell you, when I am not in the deep despair that just floods over me... I kinda like what is going on. I have been more active with exercise, weight machines I use are awesome, I got up early Sunday morning went out and trimmed my hedges (my W always did that before as she was a stay at home mom) then headed to church (not a real churchy guy but really enjoyed the modern music at this one) have been walking each nite, turned off the tv and have been reading (something I always enjoyed, but never took the time to do any more). In some ways this could very well be a much needed wake up call, just to bad the cost was so high. Thanks again to all...will continue to update.


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## turnera

Have you told your parents or a sibling or a best friend? You need someone to work through this with.


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## Hoosier

Parents have passed away, I have been FLOODED by friends, why I am able to function at all. Her family knows, they have been quick to support her, I havent heard a word from them. My brother has been a rock, my two sisters have contacted her to offer support (and my one sister was cheated on on the day she gave birth to her last child...go figure) Support from others would all in all be a hugh +, could not ask for more.


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## Hoosier

Update: 22 days since finding out about the affair. Since I last talked with her a week ago when she didnt know what I was referring to when I said "did you decide about R".. she remains in Florida with my daughter and granddaughter.... My daughter only has supervised visitation (my wife is her "supervisor") and as long as my wife stays there so does my grandaughter. The plan was that my daughter would continue to work on the requirements to be able to have my gdaughter full time without anyone there....and she does seem to be making progress. Our first divorce hearing is Aug 19th so time is getting short, as my wife will need to attend. The interesting thing is the OM by my daughters accounts is being very difficult. For example he called one day while my S was changing the babies diapers, she told him she would call him back in 5 minutes, when 6-7 minutes had passed he called her back asking why she had not yet phoned him. They have argued on the phone numerous times with the big concern of him was she needs to get back to Indiana to be with him, the hell with my gdaughter I guess. She is refusing so far to cave to his demands and even told my daughter how controling the OM is. Tonight has been a real tough nite, as I have had real ANGER all evening. I think it is my denial of my situation ( I still desire R) finally going away and the raw hurt now coming thru. I have continued my workouts, dropped over 25 pounds and feel great. My 500 freestyle time has dropped 19 seconds as well! I gave up tv, have not watched any since I discovered the Affair, not had a drop of alcohol and have been spending a lot of time with my Junior in college daughter, going to the movies, etc. as we are the only two people at our home. I have tried to "blackout" interaction with my S but has been hard as I am still fianancing a lot of the costs to keep my granddaughter, and I get a photo or two texted to me each day which I really enjoy. My wife has mentioned to my daughter, that she is not sure if she is coming back to live with the OM chosing insted to possibly move in with her brother. I have attended two counseling sessions that I think have helped, but they sadden me as I realzie more and more where I went wrong in the marriage and the guilt and despair continues to pound on me. My last two years of my marriage were miserable for me but I have a hard time remembering any thing but the good times, which saddens me more. Will I ever fill whole again? I guess when my wife talks to my daughter about her options I dont understand why moving back with me and working on R is not one of the options she mentions. I cant believe that she dislikes me that much as in fact the time I spent in Florida while we were going thru the process of getting my granddaughter back was actually a very good time. But seems once I left, my wife has just given up on me. I still feel guilt, great sadness and loneliness, I love my wife and want to work on our marriage with all my being. I have acutally done a good job as far as she is concerned in just letting her go, wonder if I will get over this, or if she will decide to give us a chance. I have decided that I will not ask her again to R, it is up to her. Then I think, "am I doing the right thing?" I of course am not dating or anything for one my divorce is not final for about 45 more days, and I consider myself married, two I need a bit of time (like 20 years) to get over this betrayal....comments?


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> I have decided that I will not ask her again to R, it is up to her.


And that is the right course of action. Continuing to ask her to R is not going to make her want to R with you, quite the opposite; it pushes her farther away. It shows you're still chasing her. It's only when she realizes that you are ready to move on without her and that she may lose you, that might snap her out of the fog. Continue the 180. Part of the 180 says you should not talk about the future, which includes asking her to R with you.

Despite OM now starting to show his true colors (i.e. controlling), she's still in the fog with him, which is why she doesn't want to R with you. You have to show her that you are NOT her second option, or fall back guy. You need to stop asking questions about her through your daughter as she is probably telling your wife that you're asking about her. Your wife will interpret that as you're still chasing her.

You need to project a strong image to your WW and your daughter, that you're moving on with or without her. As of right now, she doesn't feel the loss of you at all.



Hoosier said:


> Then I think, "am I doing the right thing?" I of course am not dating or anything for one my divorce is not final for about 45 more days, and I consider myself married, two I need a bit of time (like 20 years) to get over this betrayal....comments?


You're still assuming too much responsibility for the affair. She's also responsible for 50% of the marital difficulties pre-affair, and she's 100% responsible for the cheating. You're too hard on yourself because it's only been just 3 weeks out from DDay. You're still in denial/survival mode, and willing to do anything to save your marriage. Now you may be starting to hit the anger stage, since you state that you're starting to feel angry. This is a normal part of the grieving process. 

Expect to ride the emotional roller coaster for a while. One moment you will feel you love her dearly and you want her back no matter what, the next moment you're angry and can't stand the very thought of her. Eventually, as time passes, the extreme dips of the emotional roller coaster ride will start to even out and not be as extreme or often.

You can still possibly R even after D, it happens all the time. But your WW is stilll nowhere near ready or up to the task of R. By the time she finally comes out of the fog, which could be a while, your feelings may change. Like I said, you're only 3 weeks out from DDay, so right now it only seems to you that it will take like 20 years to get over this.

Right now, with her being away, its really helping you start to emotionally detach from her and strengthen yourself.


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## AFEH

^^ Excellent advice as usual.


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## Hoosier

Thanks again for the help, hand and response....you are exactly right, I know it is so when I read your post that is why I came back her last nite I needed some feed back. Last nite after I posted I started packing up our bedroom of her things so when she gets back from Florida I will have her stuff already to go... I really have to laugh as I have stated that the OM is a minimalist my W a border line horder. I filled three boxs (kind you get to store office files in) with just the stuff from the top of her dresser drawers, night stand and placed about the room..he is going to die...lol. Tonight I attack her closet going to be nice having some extra room for my stuff, going to move the bed around rearrange things to suit me........Feel much better this morning, last nite I was as angry as I have been since finding out about the A, really took me by surprise, I went for a two mile walk in 83 100% humidity sweating like a pig and still my mind would not clear so I came on here to post... I hope you all realize what a blessing you are, even the ones that I disagree with, to give of your time and expertiese so readily is like food to a starving man.. Thank you.


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## Lily_B

Hoosier said:


> Thanks again for the help, hand and response....you are exactly right, I know it is so when I read your post that is why I came back her last nite I needed some feed back. Last nite after I posted I started packing up our bedroom of her things so when she gets back from Florida I will have her stuff already to go... I really have to laugh as I have stated that the OM is a minimalist my W a border line horder. I filled three boxs (kind you get to store office files in) with just the stuff from the top of her dresser drawers, night stand and placed about the room..he is going to die...lol. Tonight I attack her closet going to be nice having some extra room for my stuff, going to move the bed around rearrange things to suit me........Feel much better this morning, last nite I was as angry as I have been since finding out about the A, really took me by surprise, I went for a two mile walk in 83 100% humidity sweating like a pig and still my mind would not clear so I came on here to post... I hope you all realize what a blessing you are, even the ones that I disagree with, to give of your time and expertiese so readily is like food to a starving man.. Thank you.


You are definitely not alone. I am on the same time schedule as you, I'm actually only 2 weeks since D day. It is normal to have all the different emotions, I find even within a few hours. My close friends have been a real support system and tell me to think of myself and no one else while making my decision. My problem is he is living here and he is acting as if all is ok, he has changed his ways...no more chatting online everynight with her, right in front of me. However, who's to say he isn't talking to her during the day while he's out of the house working. I even had an anxiety attack on the weekend, felt so overwhelmed, however quickly got it under control, but it was a scary feeling. Remember, there is no right or wrong to how we are feeling, everyone goes through the doubt, anger, sadness and so on. Hang in there, you are doing pretty well!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 8yearscheating

Hoosier, I'm going to take a different direction. I honestly feel it is too soon to finalize a D. I think your wife may have just thrown in the towel because she thinks you want that and your actions say it loudly. She went to Florida to get away from the OM. She indicates she is not coming home to him. My wife started with we were done and let's get divorced because she had so much guilt over what she had done to me and was sure I could never get through it (not over it) and we could never be happy again. It was the easy way out. I agree don't beg. But i don't agree that don't let her know you do feel you could both get through together and come out the other side better than before. I refused to toss 26 years of marriage away even though with my wife it 20 years cheating 2 men early and then a "friend" of mine for 18 years. My youngest is MY daughter but not biologically. We have a lot to get through but we are doing it and things are going extremely well. It's a long road especially with all the baggage we have but it IS possible. You are on the right track of finding yourself and that you can be independent of her. You need that regardless.

But, you need to be honest with her even if it still goes to D.


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## turnera

I agree. Why are you fasttracking the divorce? If you don't want to be divorced, don't help it along. IMO, her fantasy world is crumbling, and a LOT of women her age who do this, learn to regret it, realize the grass isn't greener, and wish they could come back.

The best thing you can do is STOP helping the divorce. Tell her you changed your mind, you don't want to be divorced, you want HER, and you aren't going to help it along. Maybe that's what she needs to hear from you, not the Mr Nice Guy who gives her everything she wants. You can always divorce in a year or two; by then, the affair will almost surely be done with and she'll be left looking around at the mess she made. You'll look a lot better then. At THAT point, you can calmly and lovingly say 'I love you but I will never be second fiddle for you. If you will commit to me and what I need to learn to trust you again (transparency, counseling, etc.), we can start dating again. If you won't, then get your divorce.'


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## morituri

turnera said:


> I agree. Why are you fasttracking the divorce? If you don't want to be divorced, don't help it along. IMO, her fantasy world is crumbling, and a LOT of women her age who do this, learn to regret it, realize the grass isn't greener, and wish they could come back.
> 
> The best thing you can do is STOP helping the divorce. Tell her you changed your mind, you don't want to be divorced, you want HER, and you aren't going to help it along. Maybe that's what she needs to hear from you, not the Mr Nice Guy who gives her everything she wants. You can always divorce in a year or two; by then, the affair will almost surely be done with and she'll be left looking around at the mess she made. You'll look a lot better then. At THAT point, you can calmly and lovingly say 'I love you but I will never be second fiddle for you. If you will commit to me and what I need to learn to trust you again (transparency, counseling, etc.), we can start dating again. If you won't, then get your divorce.'


So he should tolerate a one side open marriage, putting his life on hold for two years in the hopes that she will come out of the fog and he will have enough love available to do the hard work of marital recovery. Not very appealing.


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## 8yearscheating

I want to add in no way do I think divorce is easy. It's harder than anything in my estimation. It just "looks" easier when facing a mountain of issues that are clear. The reality is .....


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## 8yearscheating

It's too damn soon to making lifelong decisions.


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## morituri

8yearscheating said:


> I want to add in no way do I think divorce is easy. It's harder than anything in my estimation. It just "looks" easier when facing a mountain of issues that are clear. The reality is .....


You are absolutely right that divorce is not easy. It can be a gut wrenching experience to divorce ones wife - I know this well. But no matter how much you love the woman you married, most of us men will not accept a one sided open marriage.


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## 8yearscheating

He doesn't have to accept that and shouldn't. But he also doesn't need to slam the door and say well it's what you wanted so I gave it to you without fighting for what I wanted!


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## lordmayhem

morituri said:


> So he should tolerate a one side open marriage, putting his life on hold for two years in the hopes that she will come out of the fog and he will have enough love available to do the hard work of marital recovery. Not very appealing.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Exactly! 

As if he should wait, wait, and wait for her while she has sex with the OM, while she gives everything to the OM, while he has to live as a cuckold, and pine for her, and live in the hell of limbo, just hoping for her to return home. I'm sure he has more respect for himself than that.

JUST LET THEM GO!


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## AFEH

turnera said:


> I agree. Why are you fasttracking the divorce? If you don't want to be divorced, don't help it along. IMO, her fantasy world is crumbling, and a LOT of women her age who do this, learn to regret it, realize the grass isn't greener, and wish they could come back.
> 
> The best thing you can do is STOP helping the divorce. Tell her you changed your mind, you don't want to be divorced, you want HER, and you aren't going to help it along. Maybe that's what she needs to hear from you, not the Mr Nice Guy who gives her everything she wants. You can always divorce in a year or two; by then, the affair will almost surely be done with and she'll be left looking around at the mess she made. You'll look a lot better then. At THAT point, you can calmly and lovingly say 'I love you but I will never be second fiddle for you. If you will commit to me and what I need to learn to trust you again (transparency, counseling, etc.), we can start dating again. If you won't, then get your divorce.'


They were married very young and because of that have in some ways have prevented one another from growing up, maturing. Plus there seems to be one heck of a lot of resentment sitting between them and that resentment has turned into passive aggression. That passive aggression is “revenge”, active revenge designed to hurt Hoosier. And the guy has been hurt.

I honestly don’t know because I have no experience of it but I feel divorce can be the right thing to do under these circumstances. Everything is separated and the two spouses start to live an independent life, perhaps for the very first time in these cases. They heal their own wounds and get their previous life into some form of perspective and understanding.

And who knows, after a while they may decide they still love one another and give it all another try.

But to attempt to stay together while the resentment and revengeful thoughts and actions are still in the mix is doomed to failure and yet more hurt and pain.

We all know it takes two to tango. If one of the dancers has to literally drag the other onto the floor then their dance is doomed to failure. She has to get up out of her chair and say I WANT TO DANCE WITH YOU!

Until that time Hoosier’s far better off finding out who he really is and what he’s really made of. He’ll never do it with a wife who disrespects and hates him so much that she consciously and deliberately sets out to cause him pain.


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## turnera

morituri said:


> So he should tolerate a one side open marriage, putting his life on hold for two years in the hopes that she will come out of the fog and he will have enough love available to do the hard work of marital recovery. Not very appealing.


 Nope. He should move forward as if she is gone, while telling her what it would take for him to take her back.


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## turnera

AFEH said:


> Until that time Hoosier’s far better off finding out who he really is and what he’s really made of. He’ll never do it with a wife who disrespects and hates him so much that she consciously and deliberately sets out to cause him pain.


Agreed.


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## Hoosier

First off, it is not me that is fast tracking the divorce, it is the only insturction she gave her attorney..."get it done as fast as possible" And based on my fianancial situtation (see earlier posts) to divorce then seek R is by far the best choice for me, at this point I dont really care if we ever get remarried, in fact porbably dont want to, no need to as being a business owner, paying my own insurance etc. no difference.
2nd she did not go to Florida to get away from the OM, she went because it was needed to get our gdaughter out of the social system, the trip there and the fact that she was going to stay for 4-6 weeks was decided back in April, I just threw a wrench in the works when I discovered the A three days before we were scheduled to go. Had I not discovered the A she would still be where she is, just talking to the OM behind my back instead of openly as she is now.
8:


> My wife started with we were done and let's get divorced because she had so much guilt over what she had done to me and was sure I could never get through it (not over it) and we could never be happy again. It was the easy way out.


 This is EXACTLY what my wife is doing I mean exactly. She knows how I feel about her but she is pushing on. I thank you for your opinion, but I believe "Just let them go." is best in this situation for me, I am not necessarily throwing in the towel FOREVER, but I am not going to stand around with my thumb up my a** either. I would think that the chance, even under the best of circumstances of R is not that good. Throw in the fact she is not interested...there you. go
and the resentment, WOW the resentment! from our talk it is very clear that she resents me big time. I had posted on sex in marriage earlier on before finding out about the A, and after I read my posting realized what a TOTAL screwed up marriage I had going.... I am finding out a lot about myself, it is very painful but necessary if I am going to go forward. Thanks for your input 8 and the others, but I just know when something is right, and the just let em go/180 approach is right in this case. 
Has she hurt me? so intensly that it still takes my breath away if I allow myself to really think about it. Do I love her? more than I did 6 months ago, more than anytime in our marriage, it is killing me that with what I have learned I see what a great marriage we could still have. But I deserve someone that loves ME, and respects ME, and wants to be with ME. If at sometime she is interested and willing for all the hard work, right now I would be all in. But deserve to make sure that is how I truely feel, not a knee jerk reaction to her betrayal... Still working on it all. Thanks again for ALL your input, even the ones I dont necessarily agree with, I enjoy the discussion and get a lot out of it ALL.


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## Hoosier

> Until that time Hoosier’s far better off finding out who he really is and what he’s really made of. He’ll never do it with a wife who disrespects and hates him so much that she consciously and deliberately sets out to cause him pain.


Amen Brother/Sister! with heavy emphises on deliberately.


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## Hoosier

And 8, I booked a $200 flight at 3am which cost me almost $800 because it was a same day flight. Flew to Florida in the worse possible conditions, bared my soul like you would never want to bear your soul, to my wife. I asked her for forgiveness, offered her forgiveness as well, talked for 2 hours about our life together how there were great times, and how they could have been better, and how I intended on seeing that they were. I stayed with her under the same roof for 4 days all the time my insides were SCREAMING from the hurt, but I held it in. I did all this because of 30 years of marriage, I gave it everything I had because in order to live with myself that is what I needed to do....and I did it. She is not interested, I fought the good fight now it is up to her. I can live with myself now, I worry for her because some day she is going to realize all that I gave to save our marriage, and she is going to know that she did nothing...think she has guilt now? I worry for her mental being when what she has done hits home...


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## 8yearscheating

I understand your feelings completely Hoosier. She is rushing it. But you can slow it down. You have decided and that is fine. It's just way to rash of her to push it and I agree she will regret it later.


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## the guy

It sucks, and as long as the OM has influence, the dynamic of your marriage are doomed. If in the event that the OM leaves and she is no longer influenced by him she will come to the realization that she just wasted 30 yrs of marriage.
This is when it will hit home for her and you may have already moved on, but for now stay strong and remember...................

Its not what knocks us down that matters, it's how we get back up that counts.


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## turnera

You still don't have to make it easy to get the divorce. I know one woman who kept postponing things for almost two years, to give him time to come to his senses. He didn't, but she did what she needed for her peace of mind, to know she tried everything. IMO, anyone who says they don't WANT to lose their marriage, but then walk away from it and sign the papers, is lying. Or something.


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## Hoosier

sometimes to get your marriage back you have to walk away from it. The other problem is as long as I am married I am not dating let alone have any kind of real relationship, dont care what she does that does not release me from my pledge. I have not KISSED my wife in 2.5 years, tried the 10 second kiss deal when I thought there was a chance...she wouldnt and couldnt do it. I have spent many a night having to be content with the "cheaper than rent sex" I was getting, when what I really CRAVED was to hold her close, kiss her neck, and have her kiss me back. She never initiated any affection. I am tired of that and since she is not willing to even WORK on our relationship, if 30 years is not enough reason to try, then why do I want to degrade myself by hanging around like a little puppy while she woops it up with the OM? Maybe some day she will see the light, maybe not, when she does, if she does, maybe I will be available. But for now I choose to move forward see what life has in store. I am a nice guy, I can love and be loved, and that my friends is what I am going to do....just wish it didnt hurt so much.


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## Hoosier

I can tell you, and this is not just wishful thinking...she still has feelings for me, they are just so covered up by this unbelieveable resentment she feels, she cant get past it. the resentment comes from years of taking what I was saying, not complaining not challenging ever but just taking it into herself and letting it fester. I wont go into details, I have said enough, but she mentioned two differnt times what I said that was the reason for her affair, if I were to go thru them with you, you would say WTF? because of that? what is minor, when let to fester in her mind is a major deal. I understand that now, I understand that what I see as minor, can be a major deal to someone, I will now stand ever vigilant to never let that happen to my SO ever again! Somebody is going to get a good guy, a in touch guy, someone who listens, thinks about and acts on what is said. She is going to pay the price of creating that guy, without any of the benefits....but ultimately it is her choice. I tried to make it for her, she would not allow it....hope I am all wrong and the OM is perfect for her and they will be very happy. That would be best.


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> Amen Brother/Sister! with heavy emphises on deliberately.


Bless you mate. I'm a brother.

Bob


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## Hoosier

update: My stbxw remains in Florida looking after our granddaughter. Brief background. My oldest daughter, bipolar, and a host of other problems, has a baby daughter 6 months old. She lost custody of the baby to Florida as she was found unfit to keep the baby. Just as we (wife and I) were going down to florida to help get the baby back I found out about the affair.(5 weeks ago) stbxw and I still went to Florida, where we worked together to get my daughters apt updated so baby could stay there. Courts did appoint my stbxw as temp guardian, she stayed in Florida, where the baby stayed with her at my daughters apartment. As long as stbxw is there so can the baby. Fast forward 5 weeks. Surprise, my daughter is going back to her old ways and it looks like she is not going to be able to complete the necessary steps to regain full custody. I had told my wife that this would be the case, I was told that i did not care about my daughter or granddaughter... 
After a day when daughter and wife exchanged horrible texts with each other (daughter was not at apartment) over my wifes insistance that dau. get job,(and telling her that I would not support her fianancially, which I will not) and dau. telling wife to just leave. and both were including me in there texts, there I was in Indiana, could do nothing but get put thru the ringer. I happend to have a counseling apt that day, when I walked in counselor remarked that I looked wiped out...and I was. (still am having some sleep issued, not as bad but still some, and concentration is really lacking) After discussing the texts my C asked me "realistically what can you do?" the answer was simple...nothing. She said I needed to ask that question of wife. 
That evening I called and got wife on phone privately. I was amazed that she started in saying that maybe the best thing for granddaughter was a private adoption (which had been my stance all along, I was told I did not care about baby everytime I brought it up). Now I know part of wifes desire to be done is all this time OM is up in Indiana pineing away for her and she him. I told her that could she not see that daughter caring for baby was not going to happen? She said yes. I said that we needed to look into adoption for baby. I told her she (my wife) had gone above and beyond the call of duty in staying there this long, that I felt she had tried as hard as she could not to ever hang her head about not doing enough and if she decided to come back to Indiana, she would never hear from me that she hadnt done enough, I told her "I am proud of you for what you have tried to accomplish" She cried and said "I just wanted to try and fix it" I said."I can write the book about trying to fix things, know all about that, such as when I flew to Fl at last minute and tried to fix our relationship, but sometimes you just cant fix things" to which she replied, for the first time ever admiting "I guess I really hurt you too." (you think?) "I am sorry." I said thank you for that. We talked some more she decided to check with social worker about options. I said "One more thing, we have decided what we are going to do about M, and with that decided no real need to text me, call me (which she had been doing with photos of baby, etc nearly everyday) anymore. All we have to talk about now is strictly business, that being getting our divorce final. As such if you need to tell me something, please just talk with your attorney and have them call me, if I need to tell you something I will call your attorney and have them tell you." Really long silence.. "ok, bye K" and quietly hung up. 
The hardest thing I ever said, what I wanted to say was, "I love you, lets work on it," but am determined to keep with my vow of it being up to her, not going to ask again for R. I sit here now thinking I did right, but sick to my stomach. 
My workout routine is going great! I have lost 35 pounds, and am in better shape than I have been since my 30's (I am 51) I still have yet to turn on a tv, since discovering the A, been doing work around my home, getting her stuff boxed up so when she returns to Indiana, it is all ready to go. Attending church for the first time in 5 years. Not having any alcohol ( last year at this time was drinking 1+ bottle of wine a nite)
I just want to say again to you all....You have saved my life! I need your input, and respect you all for your time and effort in my case. Just wish the pain would go away, looking forward to the time that it does.


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## morituri

Grieving the loss of a marriage is natural, especially one where infidelity has occurred. But the main point is that *you WILL make it* and to take things one day at a time. In a couple of months from now you may find yourself divorced and no longer emotionally invested in your stbxw.

Congratulations of your weight loss. It's harder for us 50 something guys to lose fat than when we were younger because our bodies tend to lose muscle as time goes by. Nevertheless it is an achievement that you should be proud off because it improves overall the quality of your life. Keep it up.


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## turnera

Hoosier, can I ask a favor? Will you go back and break your post into paragraphs? It gives me headaches to try to read that big of a block at once without stopping. Thanks!


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## Shaggy

Hoosier, you are 51 and in good shape! Move fast to get her out and gone. You're gonna find yourself with many attractive options for upgrading your female companion in life.

I'm serious. Women have a lot of the dating advantage in your 20's and 30's but men take the advantage in the 40's an 50's.


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## zsu234

"I'm serious. Women have a lot of the dating advantage in your 20's and 30's but men take the advantage in the 40's an 50's"

Amen Brother!!


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## Hoosier

OMG! help... I think I am having a meltdown today. Picked my daughter up at airport last night, must of been 1000 triggers of good times from my marriage... I can not function today, my heart is racing, my mind is twrilling around like it is the first I found out about Affair....I am going to leave work head to the pool try to work it out.


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## 8yearscheating

Haven't heard from you in some time. Was the wife with her? Any change?


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## turnera

Slow down and determine what is in your control to change? Then determine what ISN'T in your control, and stop harping on those things.


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## ItHappenedToMe

Hoosier said:


> OMG! help... I think I am having a meltdown today. Picked my daughter up at airport last night, must of been 1000 triggers of good times from my marriage... I can not function today, my heart is racing, my mind is twrilling around like it is the first I found out about Affair....I am going to leave work head to the pool try to work it out.


Hoosier...which daughter? The one from Florida? 

Do breathe, do relax. Working out at the gym is good. Fill your mind with something else. 

Those triggers are going to happen. You've had a nice break from them, I think, while your wife has been in FL. 

BTW, did the OM move his agency from you?


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## Hoosier

Back from Pool, did a 3200 yard bada$$ workout. Feel much better. I picked up my youngest daughter who had been in California visiting my middle daughter. stbxw is still in Florida with oldest daughter, have had zero contact for the last week, as I suggested we not converse, and she is following the play book. 
Today was just totally WHAM! out of the blue. Picking up my daughter at the airport just made me think of the great fun we all had on trips. It was totally wierd how the emotions can just kick your butt. I think it is the denial in me coming out. Last nite driving to the airport, I admitted to myself that I really want to R. That I would take the crappy marriage, the lack of intimacy back in a second, which is totally sick on my part. Part of it was I was extremely tired (daughter arrived at 11:30pm my time) I know that, but knowing doesnt mean you can control it. Thank god I have great employees and when I stood up at noon today and said I am leaving see you tomorrow they immediately pick up the slack. 
As of OM taking his coverage elsewhere, we sent him a letter suggesting that he do just that. He went to another agency who he thought we didnt know. Heard from them that he stammered and stammered didnt know what to say about why he was moving agencies (stayed with same company) when they saw that he listed my stbxw as a driver on his policy, they figured it out real fast...what an idiot they deserve each other.


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## Hoosier

turnera said:


> Slow down and determine what is in your control to change? Then determine what ISN'T in your control, and stop harping on those things.


Easier said then done.... I know I know I choose what to dwell on and need to move on. I guess 30 years doesnt go away in 45 days.


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> OMG! help... I think I am having a meltdown today. Picked my daughter up at airport last night, must of been 1000 triggers of good times from my marriage... I can not function today, my heart is racing, my mind is twrilling around like it is the first I found out about Affair....I am going to leave work head to the pool try to work it out.


Hi Hoosier, it’s at these times we perhaps experience our deepest and strongest emotions and come to understand just how powerful they are.

After a while I developed the thought “This too shall pass” and as I was going through things that’s what I said to myself “This too shall pass”.

I don’t want to minimise what it is you are going through but these things do pass. You will come to know that.

A book that may help you is Awareness by Anthony de Mello.


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## ItHappenedToMe

Hoosier said:


> Today was just totally WHAM! out of the blue. Picking up my daughter at the airport just *made me think of the great fun we all had on trips.* It was totally wierd how the emotions can just kick your butt. I think it is the denial in me coming out. Last nite driving to the airport, I admitted to myself that I really want to R. *That I would take the crappy marriage, the lack of intimacy back in a second, which is totally sick on my part.* Part of it was I was extremely tired (daughter arrived at 11:30pm my time) I know that, but knowing doesnt mean you can control it. Thank god I have great employees and when I stood up at noon today and said I am leaving see you tomorrow they immediately pick up the slack.
> As of OM taking his coverage elsewhere, *we sent him a letter suggesting that he do just that. He went to another agency who he thought we didnt know.*


a) This is the difficult part. Triggers based around family. You'll see this especially at holidays and important dates between...all those 'firsts' you've shared. The good news is your can be prepared ahead of time, that you are making new memories and moving forward (if that is what happens).

b) No....you don't want the same marriage you had. The same partner, perhaps. I've yet to read of any reconciled marriage that stayed in the bad place it was. It either is better, or the couple doesn't reconcile fully and dissolves. Depends on the willingness of the individuals. 

c) What a DOLT to think that after 30 years in the biz that you don't know damn near everyone in the company, especially those in your own back yard. DUH! I wonder if your wife suggested someone. LOL

You're doing good, Hoosier.


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## 8yearscheating

Is it possible you jumped too fast just to save your business?


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## Hoosier

8: not even close.....as I have said before if she wants to R I am all for it...dont have to be married to R. At this point in my life if she came back being married/not being married would be the least of our troubles...besides you are forgetting, she has rejected all talk of R. Way I figure it lets say she comes back, we can still celebrate our anniversary, as our anniversary is still the anniversary of when we got married. I love her, I want her back, but only under my conditions/ conditions I learned on this board. I am prepared to let her go, in fact I think it is more and more likely that she is gone. Better she go with me keeping my business running. best for my kids in the long run, best for me as well. Her...she is getting what she wants and more, cant help it if guilt is causing her to shoot low, she should of not spreard her legs for the OM and just divorced me instead.


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## 8yearscheating

She didn't divorce you because she didn't want to
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH

8yearscheating said:


> She didn't divorce you because she didn't want to
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True. But *WHY* didn’t she divorce Hoosier? What were her MOTIVATIONS for staying with her H while at the same time giving her heart to and shagging another man for three and a half years?

From his W’s perspective, what does Hoosier have that OM DOESN’T HAVE? And why did she lie to Hoosier and deceive him for so very long *TO KEEP GETTING WHAT SHE WANTED OUT OF* Hoosier???


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## morituri

Perhaps she didn't want her daughters to view her as 'the bad guy' by her filing to divorce their father in order to be with the other man.


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## AFEH

morituri said:


> Perhaps she didn't want her daughters to view her as 'the bad guy' by her filing to divorce their father in order to be with the other man.


You know the only person who KNOWS is Hoosier’s wife.

But I very much doubt that she will be open and honest with him and actually tell him. But she does at the very very least owe him her HONESTY. And I truly hope for his sake that he gets her honesty if he should ever ask her WHY?


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## morituri

You are right AFEH and for that reason I used the word 'perhaps' because none of us really KNOWS why she didn't divorce him after she fell in love with the OM. All we can do is play the speculation game.

Frankly the honesty MAY come only after finding out through IC why she allowed herself to have an affair and why she chose to remain married to Hoosier for 3 years after it started.


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## Hoosier

I need to clarify, I know this thread is so long it is crazy to remember it all, but her affair has only been going on as a EA for seven months, the PA is two months. (marriage has been in the trash for three years, I have known the OM for 20 years) I discovered the affair within a week of it being a PA. When I found out, I confronted her (see original post) she immediately moved out early morning hours of a sunday, by monday had an attorney and filed for divorce tuesday am. I am very confident I have the length of time of the EA and PA correct. My goal now is to get the divorce ASAP, will be final Sept 12th, then worry about R when she no longer has a fianancial hold on me. Thanks all for hanging in there with me.....


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## 8yearscheating

Hoosier - you have made your decision and I respect it. Good luck and I hope eventually you and her both find peace and healing!


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> I need to clarify, I know this thread is so long it is crazy to remember it all, but her affair has only been going on as a EA for seven months, the PA is two months. (marriage has been in the trash for three years, I have known the OM for 20 years) I discovered the affair within a week of it being a PA. When I found out, I confronted her (see original post) she immediately moved out early morning hours of a sunday, by monday had an attorney and filed for divorce tuesday am. I am very confident I have the length of time of the EA and PA correct. My goal now is to get the divorce ASAP, will be final Sept 12th, then worry about R when she no longer has a fianancial hold on me. Thanks all for hanging in there with me.....


Well just how wrong can I be, many thanks for clarifying. A PA of 7 months is relatively easy to recover from, at least in my mind it is. As is a PA of two months. But again that’s me and my way of thinking. I really do think in long term marriages these things are the norm rather than the exception. And in that there is nothing new, it’s been going on for 1,000s of years. I think it even more the case, in that these things are even more likely to happen, when it’s a very young sweetheart type of love and marriage from the teens. People are still growing, still learning and experiencing but within the realms of the marriage. It’s not nice, it’s not ideal, but it does happen.

But saying all that I really do both think and feel that you are doing the right thing in divorcing. You’ve been together for so very long and a break can be a very good thing. Time apart, if indeed that’s what it turns out to be, well let you learn so much more about yourselves and what you truly want out of your lives. Then if you should both want to get back together with one another you will know the reasons why and the experiencing and experimenting will be over. But then again I am a romantic still trying to get real, whatever that is.


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## Hoosier

short update, a mutual friend was in my office when my stbxw called her to talk (stbxw still in Florida). I dont think she liked it that I told her not to call me anymore doing the 180...our mutual friend had talked with her last couple of days and mentioned that her husband (our mutual friends husband) had talked with me and that I still loved my stbxw but that I was not going to call her anymore. my stbxw comment today "Yes, it is all a game with (hoosier), he just wants me to come crawling back to him so he can make a big deal that I did with all his friends!" All I have ever done since D day is try to be positive, have offered R early on. Have never really even lectued her about her poor choices....hasnt done me any good in her eyes.....


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## 8yearscheating

SOrry Hoosier - she still can't faceherself, probably never will and is still blameshifting. DON'T take it to heart - it's heroin talking.


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## turnera

That said, you may want to 'educate' your friends a little bit on the psychology behind cheating, so they understand what she's doing and why, so that when an opportunity like this arises, they can help her see the light. (and way out)


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## Hoosier

I am still struggling with the notion that she can just walk out of a thirty year marriage, with hardly a care at all. I was talking with a good friend and kept saying, "I would never....." He finally looked at me and said,"she isnt you" that really hit me. Is that it? I am just a hopeless romantic idiot? I see the thirty years as something to work on, while she just sees the last two years of not so good times? I can not wait for the day my fog clears, knowing you are in a fog doesnt even seem to help, cause you are still in that fog called denial. Although today was the first time I thought, "who says I will take you back?" and I smiled during my workout as I contemplated her arrogance in that I am just waiting around on her, I am trying so hard NOT to wait around, now if I could only REALLY move on.


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## turnera

Hoosier, do you have ANY idea how women work?


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## Hoosier

obviously not, any help in that area would be appreciated.


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## seeking sanity

Hoosier, you may try reading a book called The Journey from Abandonment to Healing. It's a bit airy-fairy, but there is good stuff on the process and how to heal from abandonment.

Also, I'd suggest you ARE moving on. It just takes time and is painful while you are doing it. You are focusing on healthy behaviour, getting your life in order, doing a lot of self reflection, and growing as a man. That is moving on.

You still hold onto hope, which is the real challenge. A bright counsellor told me that "Hope keeps all suffering in place" which I believe. Trying to live in the moment is the best remedy. 

It also helped me to understand infidelity. You may want to read up on walk away wives, and the chemical stew that happens when someone is unfaithful. 

As for women: They are less emotional than men. They need men less than we need them, and they can move on easier than men. It's their biology and that they tend to gauge things by their feelings, so when their feelings turn, that becomes their new reality. It's just how they are.


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## Hoosier

seeking: thanks for the words and the suggestion about looking up walkaway wives! I googled it and found another forum with a 4 year old discussion, read the first 20 pages of it after 11 pm last nite, IT WAS SO INFORMATIVE! the postings could of all been written by me. Reading thru the infrmation really helped me with my guilt issues, as it showed that a person cant deal well with another person who is in an altered state of consciousness. My stbxw has always had issues, and over the last two years I have watched them get worse and worse. Dont know what made the switch turn on a bit, but I see now that basically she is nuts, and you cant deal logically with nuts. I hope to build on this, live in the present (thanks for that) funny how I can go from despair to hopeful and back again. Feeling more confidant that my NC stance is the proper thing to do. Do I think she will ever wake up? Really, really doubtful, but more determined then ever to not wait around, I pray for her mental health, but that is up to others not me. I LOVE THIS FORUM!


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## AFEH

turnera said:


> Hoosier, do you have ANY idea how women work?


I reckon women don't even know how women work!


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## 8yearscheating

What forum was it Hoosier? On a side note, just keep telling yourslef you cannot change, drift, encourage or drive her mind in different directions if she refuses the help. Like a drunk or addict, they ahve to want to change and realize they have problem before ANYTHING can happen. Your right, she is not you, she is a female change of life and her mind is definitely focused solely on herself and what she thinks SHE needs only. No consideration of you or any one else. The brain chemistry is totally screwed up and yes she's nuts at the moment. Dumb ass question - is she on Hormone replacement therapy and ging through her physical change of life?


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> I am still struggling with the notion that she can just walk out of a thirty year marriage, with hardly a care at all. I was talking with a good friend and kept saying, "I would never....." He finally looked at me and said,"she isnt you" that really hit me. Is that it? I am just a hopeless romantic idiot? I see the thirty years as something to work on, while she just sees the last two years of not so good times? I can not wait for the day my fog clears, knowing you are in a fog doesnt even seem to help, cause you are still in that fog called denial. Although today was the first time I thought, "who says I will take you back?" and I smiled during my workout as I contemplated her arrogance in that I am just waiting around on her, I am trying so hard NOT to wait around, now if I could only REALLY move on.


You need to grieve before you move on. Look up the seven stages of grief and the grieving process just so you know what’s ahead of you. It’s kind of consoling to know others have walked the path before you and that you are not going crazy!


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## Hoosier

8: she kept telling me that she was going to go thru the change anytime soon...not on hormonal treatments but did notice a difference since she started taking an antidepressent two years ago. I made an appointment for her to talk with her dr. about changing the med to something else...she canceled the appointment. as for the link her it is
Relationship With X


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## Hoosier

update: Looks like my daughter in Florida is going to complete the steps necessary to have her daughter full time without supervision, which allows my stbxw to leave and come back to Indiana, probably within two weeks. Our divorce (she filed two days after I discovered A) is final on 9/12/2011 about the time she gets back. I have been reading a lot about Walk a Way Wives and their screwed up way of thinking. I have progressed in that I have actually had a few good days and the bad days are not as severe. I thought I was doing really well until today. This morning my stbxw called my office, talked with an employee about a question on her insurance. They talked briefly (hows your family? fine how are you? fine) then she asked her question and it was answered, she then hung up. Soon after hanging up my stbxw called back and said to my employee (who knows all of what is going on this is a small office). "I know I have done some wrong things (you think?) but I hope with the counseling K (Me) will be a better person and a better boss" WTF! better boss? I have owned my own business for over 20 years, in that time I have only had ONE employee leave of their own accord and that was for a job paying 2x what they were making for me, and when she left the employee cried because she did not want to leave but the opportunity was to great! 
When told of the conversation, I walked in on the end of it, I was immediately thrown for a loop! This is my worry, as I have been on straight NC for three weeks things have gotten better. But with her returning to my small town, to live with the OM, I know I will be running into them seeing them out and about. I dont know how I am going to handle this. I have continued my self improvement, have removed all her things from my home, waiting on her to get back and pick them up. Last nite I moved my bedroom around competely different than it was for us, removed some of the furniture, and put different furniture in. I just want to be left to my own, but these emotions are so severe I wonder if it will ever happen. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## Hoosier

I so want to call her and say, "you know what? I am already a better person than you and I am improving! I sought out counseling on my own, you are the one who needs it the most but you do not go!" I want to say these things but I know even if I got my chance the comments would be ignored, might as well talk to the wall. Oh, and I have heard from various people that she talks about "when K threw me out" And yes, the night I found out about the A I told her to leave. Within 24 hours I called her to talk about our situation, she had already talked with an attorney and had it set up to file for D. I then offered to R three different times over the next week. She could have moved back I offered. But to hear her tell it I threw her out on her a** and she is the victim!


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## crossbar

Okay, I've read your entire thread and I have to say that you beat yourself up pretty bad sometimes with saying that you haven't been the best husband in the world. But I want to say that you can be blamed for 50% of the problems in your marriage, and she can be blamed for the other 50%. But her affair is 100% on her! It wasn't your fault. You didn't make her sleep with that guy, she made a choice. Not your fault.

Now, if she told her attorney that" she just wants it done and over with." I say strike when that anvil is hot! Save as much as you can financially as possible from the end of the marriage. Put an end to it before she changes her mind. If, for whatever reason, you decide to reconcile later then fine. You can read a bunch of stories of people getting re-married. But, protect yourself as much as possible. 

And then, finally, after the divorce is final. Take a small vacation. Pick up and leave for a little bit. Relax and get re-charged. You deserve it after all the stuff you've been going through with the wife, daughter a grandaughter.


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## turnera

She will always be a victim; victim mentality people CHOOSE to be victims because it removes any responsibility off their shoulders. Makes it easy to skate through life.

The only thing I would do in your situation is have your lawyer send her a letter to cease and desist contacting ANYONE in your business ever again.


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## Hoosier

Update with a question...... My daughter found out today that at her hearing tomorrow she will in fact be awarded custody of my grandaughter, for that I am truly happy. My stbxw immediately purchased a plane ticket home and will be in my town on Thursday, two days from now. Over the last week and a half we have an agreement, it has been discussed and redone to make us both happy (if tht is possible) I talked with her attorney last week when I was told that even though she had the agreement she had decided to wait until she came back this week to sign it. I could not figure out why, if she agreed, which she says she does, she did not sign and return the agreement so we could be officially D. When I talked with her att. he said she had three questions, two were insurance related and semi legit that I answered for him. the third question she had was "Why am I (hoosier) in such a hurry?" What? this is the woman that had already met with her attorney within 24 hours of me discovering the A, and filed for divorce the very next day. Her attorney said that he told her he thought I was probably just wqanting to get on with my life, we were in agreement so why wouldnt it just be completed? 
I realize that she is coming back, the OM is picking her up at the airport, why wouldnt she want to be a free woman? I then found out that she had the agreement in Florida, had taken the trouble to get her signature notarized, put the agreement into the FedEx prepaid next day air envelope, but did not mail it. guess she wants to do it in person. 
My question involves her belongings. She had a list of items she wanted. Those have been delivered to her. I went thru my home and literally took everything off the walls, boxed a bunch of her stuff up (like 5 pickup loads worth) and have them ready for her to pick up. My expectation is she will come within the first few days (I put a time limited of Oct 30th in agreement, to get the stuff or I will dispose of) to pick the stuff up....when she comes do I help her load it, or go backinside (it is on enclosed porch) let her and her brother take care of it...
Knowing she is coming back to town in a couple of days has really started the emotional roller coaster this week. I got use to her being 1200 miles away, out of sight out of mind. Now she is going to be 6 blocks away living with the OM. Who by the way did not go down to Florida the entire 9 weeks, not once to see her, which I find really wierd. I know they have had a few fights on the phone, mainly when he calls and she is temp to busy to talk he throws a hissy fit and hangs up on her. I pray each day for calmness, acceptance, dont let her see me sweat..... Cant wait for this part to be over. Just when I think I am doing good, this week comes along and I feel like ALMOST starting over.


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## sigma1299

Sounds like reality may be starting to creep in on her....

Me personally I'd help her load her sh!t with a smile on face close the tailgate and say happy trails!! No drama, no muss, no fuss just her tail lights as they turn away from your life.


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## Initfortheduration

Hoosier my man, you are doing great. First off she is going to come home see you 35 lbs. lighter, And I will wager looking ten years younger to boot. Next she is going to see a confident man moving on with his life and adjusting his living quarters the way he wants them. When she sees you like that, I wager she will breakdown. This will be the hardest part for you. Put a tack in your shoe and when you feel like your going to breakdown, step on the tack real hard. The pain will take your mind off her. She needs to follow the consequences a little while longer. You're mister confident, mister getting on with his life. GOING PLACES, YEAH! She in turn will be thinking "where is he going?". This will most likely be after living with the POSOM. Mr. Needy. Oh yeah! 

Then when she is at that point. The coup de gras. Ask her if she brought the papers. You will have to practice a bit. I can tell you right now there are major cracks in the relationship. He is looking for a mommy. You have 30 years with her. I can guarandamntee you, what will be foremost in her mind. "Oh my gosh, what have I done, he's (you) going somewhere, and I'm not invited". Your 180 has been perfect so don't think that you have missed anything. She has had a lot of time to think. She would not have asked the lawyer to ask you what's the rush. Let her have her fill of this other guy. And when she does she will be throwing out major "take me back" messages. That's when your hard part comes. Deciding if you still want her. All my opinion.


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## loveiswhereiamnot

What sigma said. It may be the emotionally harder thing to do on the outside, but helping her load all of her stuff up cheerfully, being helpful, joking around, making sure she got everything so she doesn't have to come back, wishing her all the best when you slam the door on her is pretty alpha.

I'm sorry you have to go through this.


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## Initfortheduration

I concur with the others. You have been a rock. A virtual cone of silence (love get smart). On the other hand this guy has been calling her 3 times a day saying when are you coming back to be my mommy. And when she gets back and starts to find out how selfish and how much work this guy is, she will bolt. He is already putting major demands on the relationship with his neediness. 

One thing you have to do. On a side note. If I were you I would consider having a couple of travel magazines spread around. Trust me she'll see them. After seeing you looking all bad with your fine self, she is going to think, "oh my gosh, he's looking so good he has to have done it for some GIRL! ARRRRRGGHHHH! She will be looking for any sign of another woman. Definitely help her pack it up. You're in kind of a hurry. You might have a date or something. Oh and get a new cologne and I sincerely hope you have gotten some new threads. I mean you're not cinching up your jeans with a piece of rope, right? Seriously, you will be someone new when she sees you for the first time in 6 or 8 weeks. You have been fashioned in the furnace of pain and have come out the other side. You have a lot to be proud of.


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## turnera

As long as the house has new locks and she can't get in past the patio, wait for her, be dressed to the nines with new clothes, a new haircut and new cologne, and as soon as she gets there, shake hands with her brother and say "thanks for getting this stuff out of here for me, I gotta go, got plans" and take off. I don't care if you go to the library, just go.


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## sigma1299

turnera said:


> As long as the house has new locks and she can't get in past the patio, wait for her, be dressed to the nines with new clothes, a new haircut and new cologne, and as soon as she gets there, shake hands with her brother and say "thanks for getting this stuff out of here for me, I gotta go, got plans" and take off. I don't care if you go to the library, just go.


Also a very good plan...


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## Hoosier

LOL this place makes me smile! First off, I have had at least half a dozen people tell me in the last three weeks that I look 10-15 years younger, as I have now lost 45 pounds and as my daughter said, "Dad, you are kinda buff" At the behalf of my employees I have pretty much ditched the standard long sleeve white shirt, for colors and more relaxed look, purchased at least 8 new pairs of dress slacks, and five new chillin outfits.... I am feeling better than I have since my 30's and starting to regain my old happy self. A person I had hidden last few years in my feeble attempt to make her happy.
I have a trip to San Antonio planned for the first Weekend in Nov to swim in a 5k open water swim race. I am going to my daughters (and taking my youngest with me) in Los Angeles for Thanksgiving weekend. We are all going to Vegas week before Christmas (really cheap then) and going to Costa Rica in Feb for an open water swim camp my daughter is coaching....so traveling is deffinetly on the agenda. 
Thanks all for not only the advice but especially the encourgement. I dont know what the future for her and I holds, my guess it involves seperate lifes, but either way I am beginning to see that this whole experience might have been the best thing that ever happened to me. I have went from a nightly drunk, falling asleep in front of the tv, who only other activity was on line gaming for hours on end. To a guy who has not turned on or watched a tv in 10 weeks, who wouldnt miss 11am church service to save his soul (pun intended), not played a game on line, who has completed at least a half dozen jobs that had been needed done for three years. Who more and more laughs out loud. A guy who reads the 180 daily and will never give up his hardwon changes. Thanks again to all. Now to get the D final, will follow up later.


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## lordmayhem

Wow! Talk about self improvement! Just like HurtinginTN, you're living and enjoying life again. You're ready to get back into life, with or without her. :smthumbup:

If she never wants R, then its HER LOSS, not yours. Someday you will be able to find some lucky gal that will appreciate the man that you've become.


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## Initfortheduration

You have to let us know every detail of what her response is to the new you. I will wager that when she sees the new you she is going to make a couple of mental observations "He got hot, and I got old". Damn, now this is a reality show I'd pay to see.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

You're doing amazing!


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## Almostrecovered

Nice work, I'm even getting aroused and I'm not gay


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## Initfortheduration

Bump for update. When is she getting in?


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## Hoosier

Tomorrow *Thursday at 2 pm....


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## loveiswhereiamnot

Good for you! My H told me about his EA three weeks after I bought plane tickets for the entire family to go to Europe for a month after my youngest son's high school graduation. We went without him, and I've been traveling 4-6 times a year since then, doing all the things I could never get him to do. By myself, with friends, with family. Doesn't matter to me, I just go, and I'm happy because I'm not being someone other than myself.

The resiliency of the human spirit to build a better life after so much pain is amazing, as you're finding out. I call pain great life fertilizer.


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## Initfortheduration

The funny thing is, I wager, is that I'll bet she actually wants to see you more then him. It will be to find out "whats the rush". If she asks again, tell her after her racing to file for D, I laughed it off as being a joke. We'll see how long it takes her to show up to get her stuff. She'll be thinking about you when she is with him. Now she is experiencing the loss of contact with you. This feeling will become acute when she sees you. She may start pouring out every real/imagined slight by you over your marriage. Don't engage. I also think she will become angry/depressed with your new found independence and kicking new style. Next on the agenda will be the "I lost/forgot something when I picked up my stuff". No problem I'll drop it off with your brother. "NO! you won't know where it is." I'll come over and look for it. Also, it will be interesting to see how her appearance will adjust. After she sees you. Take note of how she looks, see if she puts on make up or wears something you like, when she "Has to find that important missing item (her husband). I believe the worm is starting turn. LOL


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## Why Not Be Happy?

Nice post In It


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## Why Not Be Happy?

Good luck Hoosier! Keep us posted!


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## Initfortheduration

Bump for update. Ok hoosier, dish.


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## Initfortheduration

Bump.


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## Hoosier

no contact yesterday, they came home from airport and spent the rest of the day at his home...wonder what they were doing?


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## Shaggy

I hope you have the locks changed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoosier

Yesterday, I stayed home from work. Locks all changed. I swept, mopped and straightened the laundry room (I had earlier painted the floor after removing smelly carpet). I swept mopped and cleaned the kitchen. I swept and cleaned my bedroom and fixed my garage door so it would lock securely. I basically spruced up the entire home so when she comes for her stuff, hopefully today, it plus I will be in tip top shape. Only thing better would be a call from her attorneys office telling me she had signed our agreement and for me to come down and sign so it can be final.
I will admit, knowing that she spent the night with OM was hard to take, as even tho this has been going on for three months, mostly she was in Florida, he the whole time was in Indiana, so they were not together. that is not the case anymore. I am ready to move on, just wish she would get on the stick and help make it happen. Just a couple of months ago the knowledge that they were together would have thrown me for a loop, last night I simply thought about it for a while, and even went to bed early and slept like a baby....it is getting better. I still cant understand how someone can just move on so casually from a 30 year marriage, just throw it to the side and start living with someone else. I look at the things in our home, things that were so important to her just a few months ago, little things like her flowers in the yard, the certain rocks that she used as accents (picky about that). The swing she purchased for our grandaughters use, the merry go round. The tree she wanted for our yard....these things all of a sudden dont matter to her....she has changed, she is self absorbed. She has done nothing to improve her life, unless you think a 51 year old woman now shacking up with a 64 year old guy is an improvement. Hope he can make her happy, I sure as heck couldnt or wouldnt, by the time I realized that I wasnt she was shutting the door on me even trying. How do they do this?


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## Initfortheduration

probably arguing. When you spend that much time apart, everybody wants to talk first. I can tell you for a fact. That if one of the 3 questions was "what's the rush" there is more self talk going on with her then with you. Remember she hasn't seen the new, confident, you. I swear to you that, when she sees you, she will not be comparing you to him anymore. Why? Because she already has him. She is going to be much more interested in comparing to the "New you" she doesn't have. Stay strong and keep the reports coming. Oh and one more thing she hasn't thought of.........Holidays. I don't know, but mom's around this time of year, start thinking of the holidays. I can't imagine any of your kids abiding going over to the POSOMS house. If I may make a suggestion that will most likely be a slap to her conscientious. All the kids and you make plans for the holidays. Could be skiing, could be tropical, but do it together. If the question comes up from her to them where their going. This is their response "We're going to spend it with dad in San Diego, or the Florida keys, or the bahamas' or the mountains. A real white Christmas. If asked if she is going to get to see them. We'll try. And then they don't. Your wife does not realize yet that choosing the POSOM, means choosing a crappy relationship with her kids. She hasn't just turned her back on you. She turned her back on the whole family. If she gripes about it. They tell her "Dad needs us right now, you have Methuselah". If she calls and complains to you. Just tell her it was their idea, (no anger, happy voice). Eventually she will look at the posom as an impediment to her relationship with her kids. She is still in the fog. These are all little wake ups for her. Its not that you want her back, at least the way she is now. But I do think that she needs a good dose of the real world.

Next: a possible love interest.


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## turnera

Women often go through life sacrificing what they want, because they're brought up that way. Or because their spouse shuts them down if they try to ask for what they want (the male being more aggressive, dominating, and the female being more amenable and giving in). So they make do with what they have, raise the kids, get financially set, and then say 'huh? Why do I have to accept not getting what I want? I don't have to stay here!'

Not saying that's what she did, but it's VERY common for women to leave after raising the kids.

In y'all's case, the added OM in the picture gave her the PEA thrill, so it became even more irresistable.

And remember that affairs truly do turn the cheater into an alien, a drug addict - they are SO addicted to the thrill that they will throw away their whole life just to keep it coming.


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## turnera

IF you still want her, there's still a chance that the affair will implode, as they often do, and she'll look around, see you over there living your new life, taking the high road, and be interested again. But if you go that route, make sure she has to sign a prenup first.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> How do they do this?


Its the fog. Just like F-102 says, Remember, in the fog, they think OM/OW is Mr/Miss Wonderful and *they've convinced themselves* that you're the biggest @sshole on the planet and how on earth could they have fallen for you and wasted their life with you. Standard WS foggy thinking, let it roll off yoru back like water off a duck.

Besides, think of it this way, they could have spent the night fighting. You did say that OM is actually controlling and possessive, so that just may indeed be the case. Either way, she isn't your problem anymore, OM has to deal with all the stuff now that you put up with for years. Hopefully she can sign the papers and you can move on with your life.


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## Initfortheduration

You see, while she was cheating with this guy in secret, she had it all. She had her fantasy and her reality. She is still in the fantasy. Fantasy is nice, but outside of a padded room, it doesn't stand up well to the light of day. Next comes the ladies. I think the greatest shock will come when she see's you with a lady on your arm. And not a 51 year old (nothing wrong with ladies in their 50s, I think they're hot (mines 56). But the truth is the first time she see's or hears of you with another girl, she is going to think one thing "she must be under 35, he's robbing the cradle". And when she mentions it, which she will. You tell her "robbing the cradle or robbing the grave, I'll take the cradle". 

To tell you the truth. I think everything your wife has done, has been done without a moments thought, before you found her out. The divorce, was an emotional decision done for one reason, not to get free, but to hurt you. She obviously didn't make any plans to leave you. Because she would have siphoned money away and made plans with him. This was not planned. And I'm not talking about dreams with the old man. 
I am talking about a plan. They still don't have one. Just because she takes all her stuff and runs away, doesn't mean much. A seven year old can do that. Next, when your STBXW, finds out that he is looking for a replacement for his wife. NOT YOUR WIFE MIND YOU. HE WILL TRY TO CONFORM HER INTO THE IMAGE OF HIS DEAD WIFE. She will get tired of the comparison. "You don't cut the crusts off like Helen use to do".

Stay strong.


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## Hoosier

[QUOTEthey've convinced themselves that you're the biggest @sshole on the planet and how on earth could they have fallen for you and wasted their life with you.][/QUOTE]

Wow, this is so true, these things do follow a script dont they? she has told all her family that I fit the above descritption. To hear her talk (I am told) I was never any good. The fact that I labored all those years, never asking her to get a job just stay home with our kids counts for nothing, the fact that she was the love of my life, I would never do anything like this to her, counts as nothing. I guess I just wish I wasnt such a sensitive guy so that things would roll off my back...I think I can get there, just taking a while. 
I will tell you that yesterday I went to lift and then swim. During the swim portion of my workout I actually said out loud, "Hoosier...YOU THE MAN!" I felt so GOOD!, I have truly built a better boat with my workouts and the results are plain to see. Got to remember there are good things going on with my life, and even better things to come... I really believe this...even tho the hurt is so intense at times, I will however prevail, I will be better than I ever was. Like my brother says, got to go thru fire to make steel. You are all such a big help I thank god each day for you all, and I ask for his/her continual help to those on here that are hurting like me.... and to think I had ten years when I didnt talk or ask god anything at all. Wonder why I have these problems.......duh!


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## Initfortheduration

Hoosier said:


> Wow, this is so true, these things do follow a script dont they? she has told all her family that I fit the above descritption. To hear her talk (I am told) I was never any good. The fact that I labored all those years, never asking her to get a job just stay home with our kids counts for nothing, the fact that she was the love of my life, I would never do anything like this to her, counts as nothing. I guess I just wish I wasnt such a sensitive guy so that things would roll off my back...I think I can get there, just taking a while.


Just wait till she realizes that all they ever do is what he wants. And when people and friends see the new you. They are going to think one thing. "Damn, divorce sure agrees with hoosier. Hey do you think she could have been the problem the whole time?" 

You will be the happy one in this divorce.


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## turnera

Initfortheduration said:


> They are going to think one thing. "Damn, divorce sure agrees with hoosier. Hey do you think she could have been the problem the whole time?"


 I like it!


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## Initfortheduration

I keep forgetting to ask. Have you told her to not show up at the business anymore? You need to keep it all business. Find out what are the minimum requirements regarding information you have to release to her, and then make her think of what questions she needs to ask. Don't help her. She needs to be isolated from your life and those of your employees.


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## aug

Hoosier...YOU THE MAN!


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## Hoosier

stbxw is still a no show.. no messages about getting stuff, although she has been back three days. One development, Friday in the pm her attorney stopped by my office with the Divorce Agreement with her signature on it. I signed immediatly so one BIG thing out of the way, she no longer has me by the fianancial short hairs. Why she did not send back from Florida, instead choosing to wait a week to come home only to take it the next day to her attorney dont know...doesnt make sense, but nothing to do with this whole deal has. Judge will sign off on Monday. I read on here about people dealing for years for their divorce. Mine took exactly 80 days from D day, helped y her filing for D within 48 hours. I guess guilt on her part was good for something, still dont know what the future holds for us, but am breathing a lot better right now. Amazing how that works when you get someones heel off your neck.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> stbxw is still a no show.. no messages about getting stuff, although she has been back three days. One development, Friday in the pm her attorney stopped by my office with the Divorce Agreement with her signature on it. I signed immediatly so one BIG thing out of the way, she no longer has me by the fianancial short hairs. Why she did not send back from Florida, instead choosing to wait a week to come home only to take it the next day to her attorney dont know...doesnt make sense, but nothing to do with this whole deal has. Judge will sign off on Monday. I read on here about people dealing for years for their divorce. Mine took exactly 80 days from D day, helped y her filing for D within 48 hours. I guess guilt on her part was good for something, still dont know what the future holds for us, but am breathing a lot better right now. Amazing how that works when you get someones heel off your neck.


It seems to be that your WW was feeling hesitant about the D when she was away, hence the reason she was stalling about sending the papers from Florida. *Now that she's back in town with OM, she's firmly back in the fog* AND OM is probably pushing her to get the D done. With OM being a little possessive and controlling, he probably feels insecure about letting her come over there to get her stuff. 

So don't hold your breath about any possible reconciliation. It looks like she's firmly back in the fog and in the OMs grasp. Besides, it looks like you're doing great in everything now, your self improvement will serve you well. If one day she ever comes out of the fog, great, but you won't spend the rest of your life waiting for her. You will be ok no matter what.


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## Initfortheduration

The best revenge on him is to let him have her. Now its "Hoosier life" part II, the one where you get to do what you want.


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## sammy3

Hoosier, 

I can relate quite well, Im losing a 30 year marriage too. It unreal...

~sammy


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## turnera

I was thinking the same thing. Back with OM, all is good, so get rid of you.


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## AFEH

Hoosier said:


> stbxw is still a no show.. no messages about getting stuff, although she has been back three days. One development, Friday in the pm her attorney stopped by my office with the Divorce Agreement with her signature on it. I signed immediatly so one BIG thing out of the way, she no longer has me by the fianancial short hairs. Why she did not send back from Florida, instead choosing to wait a week to come home only to take it the next day to her attorney dont know...doesnt make sense, but nothing to do with this whole deal has. Judge will sign off on Monday. I read on here about people dealing for years for their divorce. Mine took exactly 80 days from D day, helped y her filing for D within 48 hours. I guess guilt on her part was good for something, still dont know what the future holds for us, but am breathing a lot better right now. Amazing how that works when you get someones heel off your neck.


Your wife was being passive aggressive re the sex side of things when you were together, she was deliberately hurting you. I would say making you wait for the signed D papers is again a passive aggressive act, designed to hurt you. As is not turning up to pick her stuff up or contacting you to arrange another time a passive aggressive act. A possessive, controlling man with a passive aggressive woman, there’s not much hope for a happy future for them but who knows? I hope you get to the point where you can sincerely wish your wife a happy future because then you really would have separated from her and “made it”.

You on the other hand are a different case altogether! You had a wake-up call and you’ve made the very best of it!




Your wife not responding to OM’s calls is very much likely passive aggressive. The fact it makes him hurt, angry and annoyed is showing it works! You are well out of it. But it will be a very different world if you find yourself with an emotionally honest and open woman. It may even be hard to take at first. But at the very least you will know where you stand with her and can therefore actually do something about it.


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## Hoosier

So much good advice from you all... and dont worry I am not hanging around waiting for Reconcilliation. Finding out that I have a good life, even tho all I heard for years is how it wasnt. As for the passive agressive, and back in the fog exactly what I thought was the deal. Going total dark now, if she doesnt come for her stuff by end of month going to take care of it myself, no text warnings, no call telling her, I told her attorney numerous times of deadline, she no shows let her deal with consequences.


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## morituri

Hoosier, you may want to consider having someone else move her stuff out. I say this because you might be overwhelmed by a sudden flood of emotions when touching her things. Maybe one of your daughters can help you do this.


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## Eli-Zor

I would also ensure she has no access to your home , you do not want her sneaking around and finding a way in while you are out. Don't waste any time pack her stuff in garbage bags , send a text and mail to her giving her a day and time to pick her stuff up , warn her if it is not picked up you will dump it the next day.

Don't mess about, her keeping her stuff there is intentional , it is a negative trigger for you and gives her a say as to when she thinks she can waltz in . Change that by effecting a timeline that you work to, make it soon.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Initfortheduration

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## AFEH

Eli-Zor said:


> I would also ensure she has no access to your home , you do not want her sneaking around and finding a way in while you are out. Don't waste any time pack her stuff in garbage bags , send a text and mail to her giving her a day and time to pick her stuff up , warn her if it is not picked up you will dump it the next day.
> 
> Don't mess about, her keeping her stuff there is intentional , it is a negative trigger for you and gives her a say as to when she thinks she can waltz in . Change that by effecting a timeline that you work to, make it soon.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why be so vicious and malicious? There were good times in the marriage and these are best remembered at these times. And there's the children to think on. I say above all else act with dignity and honour. You will never regret that.


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## Eli-Zor

> Why be so vicious and malicious?


Who is being vicious and malicious? 

This is to protect Hoosier, why would anyone be so naive to think his wife - who has chosen not only to commit adultery, has declined his efforts to reconcile and not even bothered to speak to him since she returned - is going to nice and pleasant to him. 

She even has the divorce notice that she has had in her possession for some time delivered by a lawyer. 

There is no need for Hoosier to come home one day and find she has been in what is now his home because he has not taken precautions to protect himself, his home, his emotions and his dignity. Nor is there a need for him to on a string waiting for her to decide when and if she wants to pick up her stuff. 

Hoosier has his dignity he just has to continue to use common sense and removal of those items that will cause negative triggers is to protect himself. 

She is at the OM's house, remove her stuff, she has intentionally decided not to come home.


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## Initfortheduration

Personally I would pay the 100 or so dollars, and I would go down to the bus station or airport and put all her stuff into lockers. How tightly can you compress her stuff with that buff new body? Then what you do is you make a neckless out of the keys. Maybe cloves of garlic between the keys. Then, she, at her leisure can go down town to where her stuff is and peruse her domain.


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## turnera

The best solution I have heard is when someone informed the WS that they were moving the WS's stuff out to the street and have called Salvation Army to pick it up on XX/XX date. If she wants any of it, she's welcome to come by and pick up whatever she wants before that date. Because, after that, it'll be gone. (and YOU will get a tax writeoff)


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## Hoosier

[QUOTEThere is no need for Hoosier to come home one day and find she has been in what is now his home because he has not taken precautions to protect himself, his home,][/QUOTE]

No problem there....my house has had all the locks changed, it is tight as fort knox. As for her stuff I have held to the high road the whole time and will continue to do so best I can. Just like asking to R I had to do all that I could at the time so no regrets later. But I have notified her numerous times that end of Oct is cut off date, after that I will dispose of items if she hasnt come for them. I will not contact her again and remind her, but the clock is ticking, and I am going to be gone two of the next four weekends, and maybe more, so she needs to get on the stick.


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## Tall Average Guy

morituri said:


> Hoosier, you may want to consider having someone else move her stuff out. I say this because you might be overwhelmed by a sudden flood of emotions when touching her things. Maybe one of your daughters can help you do this.


You can also give your daughters the opportunity to take anything they want - after all, she is still their mother. It is a gift to them, along with an opportunity to clearly show you taking the high road.


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## AFEH

Eli, when you’ve been married for many years and have grown up children you will have an exceedingly different perspective on these things. But you’ve never been married. And of course you are not a man, you are a woman so again you will have a totally different perspective. It is well known that women respond very differently to men when they’ve been scorned. It is for a man to behave like a Man in these things.

If Hoosier were to take your advice and “dump her stuff the next day” as you recommend what do you think his children and the other important people in his life will think and feel about him? And what would he think and feel about himself in 10, 20 years time when he looks back and reflects?

Real Men do not respond to one event or phase with their wife as though nothing was ever good in the past. That’s for others to do. Men take everything into account when coming to their conclusions and judgements. That’s why it takes us so long, we’re not into knee jerk reactions. Hoosier is behaving like a real man in these things. He’s found himself again and he’s very much liking what he’s seeing. He doesn’t need to respond with anger and bitterness to anything no matter how much he might feel like it. He’ll get rid of his anger in other, more creative, not destructive ways.


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## Initfortheduration

I still like the bus stop lockers.


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## Almostrecovered

Initfortheduration said:


> I still like the bus stop lockers.


get a storage locker and pay for one month only

Watch Storage Wars 4 months later and see how much Dave bids on it- Yuuuuuuuuuupppp!!


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## Hoosier

I have a "mole" in the county courthouse. I confirmed that the decree and all necessary paperwork were filed by my x's (yes she is now my x) attorney. Although they were in the judges pile of "mail" for the day and not signed, was assured that even if he signed them tomorrow they would be effective today. Person told me the judge would probably sign everything in stack today.
I immediately drove down to local florist, and ordered a $50 arrangment of cut flowers. I filled out the card personally, it said, " J, thank you for 30 years, 125 days. Looking forward to happier times for us both. K" they are delivering it yet this afternoon. She hasnt even heard from her attorney yet I am sure.


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## Initfortheduration

Awesome, one problem, you're not her problem anymore. What excuse is she going to have now?


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## Chaparral

Hoosier said:


> I have a "mole" in the county courthouse. I confirmed that the decree and all necessary paperwork were filed by my x's (yes she is now my x) attorney. Although they were in the judges pile of "mail" for the day and not signed, was assured that even if he signed them tomorrow they would be effective today. Person told me the judge would probably sign everything in stack today.
> I immediately drove down to local florist, and ordered a $50 arrangment of cut flowers. I filled out the card personally, it said, " J, thank you for 30 years, 125 days. Looking forward to happier times for us both. K" they are delivering it yet this afternoon. She hasnt even heard from her attorney yet I am sure.



Now thats class.

:allhail:


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## Hoosier

So today I woke up for the first time since early July with a pretty clear head. I realized that it wasnt so much that my xw was staying at the OM house that was bothering me but that OM was having his way WITH MY WIFE. Her not being my wife anymore, now just some woman, unbelieveably makes a difference to me. I did not see this coming, always learning something about the situation and myself. I think I might actually make it...


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## turnera

So...it was an ego thing.

Interesting.


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## uphillbattle

He has a penis, its always an ego thing.


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## Hoosier

I dont know if ego, but primal definitely. I still dont like that she is there, but the fact that it was my wife made it more invasive......ok ego.


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## Initfortheduration

Nothing wrong penises, I have one myself. Like I said Hoosier, its time for you to go and have some fun.


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## Hoosier

In: On it!


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## Hoosier

X has been back a week, still no contact from her whatsoever, and she is living with OM five blocks from my home. I gave her until the end of this month to collect her stuff, wonder if she is going to get it done or not.....


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## turnera

Stop wondering. Just put it outside, inform here where it is and that Salvation Army is coming on November 1, and move on with your life.


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## sigma1299

If it's really bothering you having it there - which I can complete see that it would - box it up and take it to a mini-storage. Pay for one month's rent, mail her a key to the pad lock with the address and unit number and tell her you paid for a month, after that you don't know what will happen to her stuff. If you do this I would recommend sending that letter return receipt so if she doesn't get her stuff you can prove that you sent her everything she needed to collect it. 

Over. Done.


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## turnera

Yeah, I've recommended that to a lot of people.

COMPLETELY takes it out of your hands, in a classy way.


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## sammy3

Hoosier said:


> I did not see this coming, always learning something about the situation and myself. I think I might actually make it...


So true !!! 

~sammy


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## Hoosier

Got text from XW yesterday after I texted her twice to see when she was coming to pick up her stuff.

Me: I thought I would have J and L (friends of both of us) there to help.
XW: Why do we have to have someone there?
Me: Because I dont trust you. You can say I said this, I did that and without any backup I have no recourse. So I chose someone we BOTH trust to be there. Only costing me a dinner for them both.
XW: I will load by myself u go in the house I wont talk to u.
Me: I dont mind helping but think it best to have neutral party there.
XW: I just want to get it done! (then why have I been trying for two weeks to get her to answer my request for date and time) 
Me: I still think it best to have them there plus they would be good help
XW: If its that big of a deal keep the stuff.
Me: (after a ten minute wait) How about tomorrow (wed) at 5:30.
XW: Ok

I immediately called our friends, they are going to be here tonight. Dont know if she expects them or not. I have not seen her since mid July, have gone dark on her so really haveing even talked with her, no communication at all. This is going to be interesting. Am praying for calm and no emotional crap, hope I can hold it together. I know it is going to be hard to see her again, 30 years of feelings for another person, especially a person who you thought was the love of your life, just dont go away even after all the crap she put me thru. I have made great strides in getting my act together. I am packing my gym bag so I can immediately go work out after this is done I will need the good endorphins like nobodys business.


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## lordmayhem

This is going to be tough. Is it possible for you to install a web cam in the garage so that you can monitor what's going on instead of physically being there and in her presence? Is OM going to be there? 

The fact that she texted for you to stay in the house and she wont talk to you seems to indicate that she still has this idea that you want to chase after her.


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## turnera

Who cares if she wants them there?


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## turnera

Good for you for showing her that you no longer trust her. She needs to hear that. A LOT.


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## Shaggy

She doesn't get to say who is there. It's your place, she is the cheat who left. She can pound sand if she doesn't like who you inivite. Not her decision.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3

dont even know why you told her they'd be there.


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## Hoosier

No OM is not going to be here. I texted told her "B (OM) is not welcome". Did say "C (her brother) is fine" As for telling her in advance. I dont wish to scam her, I want to be able to say that I was above board in all my dealings with her. Not going to back down in what I want or what I do, just being as upfront and transparent as I can. I am going to be there, I know it will be tough, but no tougher than all the sh#t I have been putting up with for the last 90 days. At least now that we are D'd she no longer has me by the fianacial short hairs. Keep calm Hoosier, dont let them see you sweat, they cant harm you now. Bad persons go away soon.


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## Hoosier

Talk about anticlimatic! X showed up, walked right by me without saying a word, (no you look great, youve lost weight, see you put up the bird house, trimed and mulched the hedges,or any of the other stuff I did)neither to me or the couple that were here (woman was her best friend in town) started loading up her truck with the box's of stuff. Took three loads, extended cab full and all, but all was moved out. Only said likethree things the whole time. Once was when friend mentioned didnt she want to go in and say hello to our dog (dog is17 doesnt move much and is sadly not long for this world, she had not seen dog for10 weeks). X responded "Not my house, so not going in." 
After all was loaded, I mentioned the few things at my office that she needed to pick up, "How about next Tuesday after 5pm?" " I cant, I need to take OM to the doctor that day" (with real concerned look) "Ok how about Wed then?" I only heard going to dr. did not hear her mention OM, kinda glad cause I probably would have said 1. Oh, sure hope its serious. or 2. Woot! Woot! karma train coming to town? 
either way she loaded all and left. I surprisingly had no adverse reaction to her taking stuff, after she left I waited for it, but it was not there. Maybe I am getting better after all.
One last thing. The box containing her wedding dress was amongst the items. I had insturced our friends to not touch that box, without telling them what it was, told them let her carry that one out. She made her wedding dress, did a great job, she never throws ANYTHING away. She waited until the last trip to truck, carrying that box by itself. After she left friend said, what ever was in that box she must not of wanted, she threw it in the trash!


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## Hoosier

today i realized she left a couple of chairs that she redid for a 4H project when in high school. I sent her a text asking if she wanted them....no response. 2 hours later I texted her that I would take her nonresponse as a rude no. Told her why couldnt she at least be civil, after all it was her that moved out, rejected my attempts at R. She texted back "For 30 years you have brow beat me and u r the victim must you continue to jab me" Never before had she mentioned browbeating, but she seems to need to find a way to be the victim, so this must be her story line now. At least this makes it easier for me to say enough. I didnt respond, cant argue with a crazy person, I always knew she had issues, thought they were getting worse last few years...this proves it.


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## Almostrecovered

sounds like a tantrum

of course she's doing the old "rewrite history and vilify my ex so I can just my affair and leaving him as valid" trick

it's an old trick and just be glad you won't have to deal with it anymore soon


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## turnera

That she wouldn't even talk to her supposed best friend is very telling. And very sad. All for a man. And a worthless man at that.


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## Hoosier

I guess this is the end of my story.... want to say again to you all THANK YOU! without your guidance, help, friendship, patience I would be a basket case now, a crying blabbing slob in the corner scared of the light. As it is, I am fully charged looking (for the first time in a long time) forward to what comes next for me. I am better, Iam in a better place. My heart was ripped from my chest and stomped on. What I had known as the love of my life for MY LIFE, rejected me in the most soundest of ways. I came to this forum thru the grace of god, you all saved my life! For new readers who find themselves in this situation I am sorry for your pain. Read the advice given me, heed the advice, it wont bring them back if they dont want to come. You can only control yourself, but you can survive and I believe you can thrive, I intend to try. Again to all who weighed in on my situation, with your advice your careing words.... Thank You!

Hoosier.

not gone from this forum, but no longer the victim of injustice, rather the benificary of the chance of a new and better life. One I can now accept.


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## Almostrecovered

drinks on Hoosier!!


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## Hoosier

LOL!!!! Amen brother!!!


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## AFEH

I think now on my stbxw as two people. The person I first met and fell in love with and came to know so well. The person that brought me bundles of joy and happiness. And then there’s that other person, the one that caused me a whole lot of pain and that I didn’t really know up until right at the end. Sometimes I think she’s schizophrenic but then I wonder if it’s me who’s got the two personalities. But thinking on her as two people does let me keep the good memories alive and for me that is very important.


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## aug

People change over time.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier,

You came out of this not a wreck, but much stronger, and we're glad you'll stick around to help the newly betrayed who so are is so much need of help. That they too can benefit from your experience and learn that this is not the end of the world, that they don't need to live in fear, whether they R or D.


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## Hoosier

AFEH said:


> I think now on my stbxw as two people. The person I first met and fell in love with and came to know so well. The person that brought me bundles of joy and happiness. And then there’s that other person, the one that caused me a whole lot of pain and that I didn’t really know up until right at the end. Sometimes I think she’s schizophrenic but then I wonder if it’s me who’s got the two personalities. But thinking on her as two people does let me keep the good memories alive and for me that is very important.


Thank you for that, it is very helpful, I agree that it is tho she is two different people....


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## Hoosier

I'm back.....wow thought I was done with this subject, but need some insight.
Update: 100 days give or take from Dday. Just returned from a four day trip to Florida to see my 8 month old granddaughter for second time (FYI, cutest baby ever!). This is where my x had been for almost the entire time we were going thru D, glad to say my daughter is doing well with her, she (my grandaughter) is thriving and while it is a long road ahead for the two of them, I am encouraged. 
What I did not expect was the emotions that hit me while visiting and since my return. I thought I had gotten past all that crap, but the last few days as intense of feelings as any time in this process. The feelings? ANGER. I am mad at my x for her A just when my grandaughter may need her the most. I am mad at my x because I know everyone thinks their grandchilden are the best and cutest as I do mine, for years I so looked forward to spending the day with my Grandchildren, then the night talking with my spouse for hours on end on how cute/smart they are. I have no one to spend those hours with/have those conversations with. I drove around Florida visting the places we had previously been to together and the memories and triggers were everywhere. Add to that our song was played on the radio while I drove, a song sang at our wedding 30 years ago was played while I drove. Everywhere the sh** was coming at me. Then I get home, and I cant shake the depression, I cant shake the anger. I so want to text/talk to/see her and tell her off. I know it does no good as she is the poster child for "fog induced brain dead" My daughter said it best when she said, "you know the most amazing thing? all those things that use to matter to mom a lot, none of them seem to matter anymore, only thing that matters is OM" One more thing. My daughter needed some money as she is court ordered to put my GD into daycare, without daycare she loses the baby. I immediately sent her a check for the first month, texted my X and said for next month we split it, ok? ($150 each as the state of Fl pays a major portion of it) she is balking at that, now this is the woman who spent $1200 in two months without permission on my GD when she was there seeing about her. Of course that was money I provided, now that she herself might need to come up with $150 she is not so sure..... I have been told I brow beat her for 30 years, I am a horrible person, she is justified in leaving and having the A. Never got credit for anything good I ever did including working hard so my x could be a stay at home mom. I cant win. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## joe kidd

Vent away. That's what we are here for.


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## morituri

Hoosier what you are going through is a very normal thing for all of us betrayed spouses. The important thing to remember is that this is only transitory and eventually you will eventually heal and move on to a better life. That is not an opinion, that is a fact.


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## turnera

Write her a letter and then lock it away. Or burn it.


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## AFEH

Hoosier I’ll be two years out come middle December. My anger is more or less gone. I still get hit with sadness but I go along with it for a while knowing full well it will pass. And that’s what’s key, these things do pass. The thought “This too shall pass” was so helpful for me, maybe it will help you too.

As far as your wife is concerned maybe go on thinking of her as those two people, the one you loved and the one you never really knew. These things do take their toll on us but you will get through and recover to what you were before.

This is from 7 STAGES OF GRIEF

_1. SHOCK & DENIAL
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs. 

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion. 

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair. 

5. THE UPWARD TURN
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward. 

You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.
_


The above really helped me to understand what I was going through and to know it is actually a recognised process. My anger was huge, it took me 6 months to get it down to a reasonable level. I found punch bags enormously helpful at dissipating my anger. It’s still there but only briefly now. I’m on the Upward Turn, even my friends comment that I’m looking relaxed again. It will take you time my friend, it will not happen over night. One of the things I learned was just how enormously deep and powerful our emotions are.


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## lordmayhem

I know its small comfort for you right now, but just know that what you're feeling is perfectly normal. You're only a 100 days past DDay but you've made amazing progress, much better than I was when I was at your stage. The anger will be there for a while, and the emotional roller coaster will take you on the ups and downs. She's way deep in the fog and there's literally nothing you can do about it. It is what it is. Go ahead and vent, this is your safe place.


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## Hoosier

Today in answer to a question I texted concerning our grandaughter my X said " You are such a bitter man! That is why I divorced you!" I simply texted back "No, I divorced you because you were F**king the neighbor while you were married to me" I just couldnt take it any longer, I am so tired of her revisionist attitude, I know I should have ignored it.


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## morituri

Don't beat yourself up about it. She wanted to spit vile at you, you responded with the truth. I hope it stung her.


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## Chaparral

Hoosier said:


> Today in answer to a question I texted concerning our grandaughter my X said " You are such a bitter man! That is why I divorced you!" I simply texted back "No, I divorced you because you were F**king the neighbor while you were married to me" I just couldnt take it any longer, I am so tired of her revisionist attitude, I know I should have ignored it.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

And don't ever let her forget it. Adultery is another word I would let her hear when I had the chance. It stings far worse than anything else. So biblical.


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## Onedery

Why are you still talking to this woman? If your daughter needs assistance from her, let her ask for it. If she turns her down, you will eventually provide it anyway. My split with my ex wiped me out since the judge and the two lawyers got together and figured out how they could get the most out of the proceeding leaving me with NOTHING.
Now that I am back on my feet, the last thing I want is to talk to the skank who lied to me for twenty years.
Of course, you actually have children you have fathered so I can understand your concern for their well being whereas the two I thought were mine turned out to belong to two other men.
I knew this when I went ahead and finished paying for their college tuition, but haven't heard a word from them since.
What's worked for me is short term relationships where I try to make things as pleasant as I can before moving on.
Couldn't care less about what my ex thinks or even happens to her. In this, I'm sure the concern is reciprocal.


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## Shaggy

Actually Hoosier, she deserved that. And many more.

Your beaten the cancer, and it's officially gone. You get to be nasty to the tumor.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Glad to hear that you finally said the truth.


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## Hoosier

Hello all again. Just thought I would post a bit of an update. Now am 180 days past DDay, been divorced 60 days. I still find it hard to believe I am where I am. I find it hard to believe that she could just walk away from what we had. I find it hard to believe that she continually rewrites the history of our marriage. I have had no contact for last 60 days at all. Find that no contact is really the best, use to drive by the OM home on occassion (where she lives now) but found that to be really counter productive. Have started to work a bit, but still lack in concentration. I am extremely lucky in that my adult daughters, while they love their mother, are really in my corner. they worry about me, check on me, and have refused to attend any holiday festivies at the OM home. The holidays are a real b***ch, however did take youngest daughter to California over Thanksgiving to visit middle daughter, decided this is gonna be our new Thanksgiving tradition. Just wanted to post as I feel very sad last few days, can see where the holidays are the toughest. Never forget reading where suicides rise during the holidays, and now understand it. It just really hurts when you realize that the last 30 years has all been lies. It hurts when someone tells you they talked with WS and she told them she couldnt help it cause she loves the OM. I think she use to love me, but am not sure. This forum is the one place I can visit and feel helped, god bless you all for that. Just feeling down.....


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## sadcalifornian

I am sure she used to genuinely love you, but at some point her feeling turned toward OM. New love vs. Old love kinda thing? Feelings change all the time, it is our character and moral discipline that keep us in line. For that, your XWW is a failure of a wife and a human being. She says she loves OM? So what? We are all capable of falling in love with "new love", if we choose to explore that option, no? 

She is a sorry excuse of human being, and forget about her. Just move on. Even thinking about her is a waste of your time and your precious mind.


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## seeking sanity

Hoosier, sorry to hear you are feeling down. Are you keeping up with exercise? Holiday's are very hard, and what you are feeling is totally normal and to be expected. Just try to remember that it does get better with time. I found that waiting for things to get better kept me in a depression, whereas doing things to get better made me feel in control. Have thought about dating? Joining a social club? Getting out with new people?


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## sigma1299

Hang in there - glad to see you back and posting again.


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## Hoosier

I am actually doing ok, definitely keeping up the exercise. Over Thanksgiving I did a mile ocean swim in 59 degree water, regular swim suit!!! at Laguna Beach, CA. Just that I still have these days, mainly I just shrug thru them, but just today I really felt anger again. Went and lifted and did a little more than a mile at the pool, that always helps. It is still amazing to me how your emotions can run you at times, even when you are watching out for it. Have dated, I would say successfully, not looking to committ, being upfront about it. thats ok with some not others, but thats ok. 
I have posted on some threads, just didnt feel much to update til now. Always appreciate the ability to vent.


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## Initfortheduration

The problem is Hoosier, you are no longer her problem, reason, excuse. Now she is going to have to figure out, why she still isn't happy.


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## JustaJerk

Just got through reading your entire thread... WHOA! You're x-wife seems like she went through a TOTAL _Jekyll & Hyde_ persona throughout this ordeal. It seems she disconnected on a major level with her whole previous life... I mean, the way she moved-out; the way she got a quickie divorce; the way she went to pick up the rest of her stuff_("Not my house, not going in."_ WTF is all that about???)- it was like she wanted out of that life PRONTO. I take it this OM wasn't married, as I see no mention of it anywhere in the thread.

Anyway, I know it hurts,especially when they live 5min. away, but life goes on, I guess. Stay strong.


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## morituri

It is said that about 3% of affair relationships become committed relationships after a divorce. If this is true, the chances of your ex-wife and the OM making it are slim. I just hope that if their relationship tanks, and that you get wind of it, that you come back and tell us how the Karma bus ran over those two POS.


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## Hoosier

OM is widowed. His fourth wife died of cancer. For the last six months of her life and the six months after she died, OM was in my office seeking comfort. Go figure. It is wierd, I try not to spend to much time thinking about it as it makes no sense. Only time will tell if she ever rethinks, by then I will have moved on. 30 years gone like that, means a lot to me, evidently nothing to her.


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## warlock07

Have you talked to the other guy? And don't wait her to be miserable. don't base your happiness on her misfortune. If it happens , it happens. Waiting on it will only lead to further dissatisfaction.


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## Shaggy

Hoosier said:


> OM is widowed. His fourth wife died of cancer. For the last six months of her life and the six months after she died, OM was in my office seeking comfort. Go figure. It is wierd, I try not to spend to much time thinking about it as it makes no sense. Only time will tell if she ever rethinks, by then I will have moved on. 30 years gone like that, means a lot to me, evidently nothing to her.


could your wife and him have been an ongoing thing for long time before that? Maybe he was just staying with his wife until she passed of the cancer, and the 6 months was just a cover so it didn't look too quick.

You wife's swift action has always seemed very very odd. Far too planned out. Could be you just advance her long thought out plans - perhaps years worth of plans.


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## Eli-Zor

Shaggy said:


> could your wife and him have been an ongoing thing for long time before that? Maybe he was just staying with his wife until she passed of the cancer, and the 6 months was just a cover so it didn't look too quick.
> 
> You wife's swift action has always seemed very very odd. Far too planned out. Could be you just advance her long thought out plans - perhaps years worth of plans.



I had the same thoughts when I saw the first postings , the decision to move was way to quick. She is gone from your life , the focus is recovering yourself .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aug

Hoosier said:


> OM is widowed. *His fourth wife died of cancer.* For the last six months of her life and the six months after she died, OM was in my office seeking comfort. Go figure. It is wierd, I try not to spend to much time thinking about it as it makes no sense. Only time will tell if she ever rethinks, by then I will have moved on. 30 years gone like that, means a lot to me, evidently nothing to her.



4 wifes. Now your ex-wife is the 5th!?!?


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## morituri

aug said:


> 4 wifes. Now your ex-wife is the 5th!?!?


Lovely. It would be extremely unlikely that he's been a widower 4 times over, which means that - with the exception of his 4th wife - this POS was divorced 3 times and there is a 50/50 chance that infidelity, on his part, played a part in the demise of his first 3 marriages. One only has to look at how he became the OM in your marriage to realize this. Your ex-wife sure picked herself a winner, and hopefully he'll cheat on her and break her miserable cold heart.


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## Shaggy

Now hoosier, if you wanted to mess with him and her a bit - consider hiring a woman to go get "friendly" with him, and provide your ex with the pictures.


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## morituri

I like your style Shaggy. But hoosier is better off letting both his ex-wife and the OM to rot in He**.


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## morituri

radioclashx said:


> Marriage Builders website. Best plan for dealing with infidelity.


I'm sorry but I beg to differ. Dr Willard Harley wrote two great books 'His Needs, Her Needs' and 'Love Busters' but his 'Surviving An Affair' is not one of them. 'Jon and Sue' is a 'success' story that I would not wish upon my most hated enemy. The abuse Jon received from his cheating wife, Sue, after returning early from a business trip with roses for her and finding her in their marital bed having sex with the OM is brutal. Plan A only enabled the affair because Jon was still meeting the emotional needs that Sue's OM was not able to. It enabled Sue to be a first class cake eater. If there is a moral to that story is that Jon should have gone into Plan B mode and let the OM take care of all of Sue's emotional needs. It was only after he did this that the affair exploded and the OM left Sue for another woman. Other real life cases of infidelity have shown that the Plan A/Plan B Dr Harley espouses, does not work (just ask ArmyOfJuan), which is often the case when it is the wife who has cheated. A better method of dealing with infidelity is the tough love approach advocated by Dr James Dobson PhD in his book 'Love Must Be Tough'. It does not coddle the cheater and makes him/her deal with the consequences of his/her betrayal from the onset. Something that has much greater success with cake eating spouses.


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## Shaggy

morituri said:


> I like your style Shaggy. But hoosier is better off letting both his ex-wife and the OM to rot in He**.


I know. You are right, I just like to help move them a little closer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoosier

shaggy and elz: I here what you are saying, I agree she had to have some plan to leave. Working hard on indifference. And on the wife thing, he has multiple divorces, no children. I have been told that she admired him for some time, what with the dedication he showed his last wife during her sickness....whatever........Indifference. Appreciate all input.


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## Hoosier

> Anyway, I know it hurts,especially when they live 5min. away, but life goes on, I guess. Stay strong.


Intend to! thanks jerk.


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## Hoosier

Vent time!! One of my employees ran into a long time customer at a school function. Customer says to employee, "How is Hoosier doing?' Employee says "Ornery as ever!" Customer, "How is he handling D?" E: "Had a rough go but getting better, how did you know about that?" C: "Ran into xw and a guy, she said that Hoosier had kicked her out of the house and immediatly filed for divorce!" OMG! I did ask her to leave, but she keeps forgetting that I asked her 3 times to R, to come back, and she is the one who filed for D 36 hours later! Would not even consider R! This pi##es me off! Lie! Lie! Lie! I am so glad I took her number out of my phone, because if I hadnt I would be texting her and telling her that at least I dont have to lie about my actions! I keep telling myself that those that are important, especially my kids, all know the truth, but it still makes me see red in .01 seconds. How long til this goes away? Not soon enough.


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## JustaJerk

She doesn't want the truth to come out. No one wants to be labeled a cheater.


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## turnera

Tell your employee that if he ever runs into a similar situation, he has your permission to spread the truth.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> How long til this goes away? Not soon enough.


It's going to take a while, but you're ahead of the curve compared to other stories on here. Like others have said, the opposite of love isn't hate, its indifference. When you feel indifferent to her lies and such, you know you're there.


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## SadSamIAm

I think this is one of the reasons why exposure is so important. Once the cheater knows that you have told virtually everyone what actually happened, it makes it difficult for them to make up a story that makes them look better.

If you know this customer, I would call him and let him know the truth. If your business is like mine, there is a relatively small circle of people that all know each other to a certain extent.


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## ArmyofJuan

Not every marriage can or should be saved. How your W handled and continues to handle the situation shows that now she is no longer wife material and you are going to be better off long term without her. She did you a favor, you'll see that down the road.

That fact of the matter is the OM hooked up with a married woman, one that cheated on her husband so she has a flawed moral compass. She on the other hand jumped into a new relationship during her marriage and is technically in a rebound relationship. I shouldn’t have to tell you that this has disaster written all over it. Its just a matter of time before the reality of what they have done starts to sink in and we start to see trouble in paradise.

The best thing you can do for yourself and in a way, get back at her for what she did to your marriage is to live a good life. You get your house in order, do well at your job, and find yourself a woman younger/prettier than your ex and she will flip her lid. She thinks she was the best you could do and last thing she wants to see is you flourish without her. Her ego won't be able to deal with it.

In one study 80% of women who filed for a divorce while having an affair regretted it 2 years later. 97% of affairs fail within 2 years (I think 80% the first year). You can take some solace in knowing that the karma bus will one day make a stop at her place and it will come by the minute you no longer care one way or another.


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## sadcalifornian

Hoosier said:


> Vent time!! One of my employees ran into a long time customer at a school function. Customer says to employee, "How is Hoosier doing?' Employee says "Ornery as ever!" Customer, "How is he handling D?" E: "Had a rough go but getting better, how did you know about that?" C: "Ran into xw and a guy, she said that Hoosier had kicked her out of the house and immediatly filed for divorce!" OMG! I did ask her to leave, but she keeps forgetting that I asked her 3 times to R, to come back, and she is the one who filed for D 36 hours later! Would not even consider R! This pi##es me off! Lie! Lie! Lie! I am so glad I took her number out of my phone, because if I hadnt I would be texting her and telling her that at least I dont have to lie about my actions! I keep telling myself that those that are important, especially my kids, all know the truth, but it still makes me see red in .01 seconds. How long til this goes away? Not soon enough.


I always tell BH that one of the things he must do while or after divorce is "to protect his reputation". With something like infidelity, WW will never tell the truth to people asking for the reason of breakup. So, if you keep quiet, before you know it, your reputation is shot and the fabricated version of you, your marital history and the real reason of divorce is spread and set as the permanent record in everyone's mind. My XWW did exactly this, and I was very naive back then. 

Don't make the mistake I made.


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## warlock07

I think she might have even skipped the cheating part....


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## Hoosier

> she is no longer wife material and you are going to be better off long term without her. She did you a favor, you'll see that down the road.


I just try to remember what my own 25 year old daughter told me. "Dad, I love mom, but you can do better!"

Oh and she did "forget" that she had an affair.


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## lordmayhem

Hoosier said:


> I just try to remember what my own 25 year old daughter told me. "Dad, I love mom, but you can do better!"
> 
> Oh and she did "forget" that she had an affair.


Of course she conveniently forgot to mention she was cheating. You're the monster who kicked her out of the house for no reason. 

FWIW, my buddy is going thru the same thing. His WW is telling everyone that he's the monster and she's the victim.


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## Hoosier

And the hits keep on coming..... Today while in my basement I found a box that contained a few items amoung which was something missing when my xw collected her stuff, one of the things she really wanted. At the time of giving her sh*t to her, could not find.(she thought I was purposely keeping it from her). So I wrote a note briefly explaining how I came across it, taped it to the box. Gave the box to one of my employees to take to her at the POSOM home where she is staying. Said employee arrives knocks on the door to tell them and is invited in. (He knows OM well as he has been a friend of mine for 20 years) OM begins to explain to employee that what they did was not that big of a deal, "because they (xw and I) were going to divorce anyway" (news to me) and after all there had only been "one indiscression" (at the time I found out, that was true, their EA had just went PA the night before I found the texts) apparently the EA they had doesnt count in his book, nor did the fact that when I found the texts she packed and moved in with him that same day. He then stated that he was thinking he would come up to my office to talk with me and straighten it out! WTF! He comes up here I will kick his a**! what is with these people? He obviously doesnt think what he and her have done is that big of deal, that I am just going to go..."oh, ok, lets be friends" He must be in a bigger fog then she is. (she would not come into room while employee was there, said she was in her pajamas.... pair of sweat pants and sweatshirt) My employee suggested strongly that he stay away from me. good advice. I am so pi$$ed. So glad I have an IC tonight.


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## turnera

Cheaters are idiots. Just have to accept it.


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## warlock07

I did not know you can fvck someone's wife guilt free if it is only once. News to me. The biggest shame here is that he was your friend, not some random stranger.


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## Hoosier

> the biggest shame here is that he was your friend, not some random stranger.


amen!!!!


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## Hoosier

Update: I continue to be amazed at how this rollercoaster of emotions following an A can really hurt. I go thru times where I feel that I am getting better, to only have the wind taken out of my sails a couple of days later, things were so bad last week that I gave a friend my handgun for safe keeping....but I hope I have turned the corner. 
Last week the final piece of paper that needed to be signed by her, giving up any ownership in my business, was received. For two weeks she had the form in her possession just needing a simple signature...finally it came. I dont know if it was the waiting on the form, or the fact that I again was forced to deal with her (after a 7 wk NC) but I was at my lowest. Upon receipt of the form I decided to take the high road and contact her about giving her a chair she REALLY wanted but had failed to mention during the divorce. The chair, an antique was in the back of my truck for a trip to a local antique store to be sold. I thought, hmm maybe I can start the healing process by giving it to her. When she comes to pick it up I can maybe talk with her about at least being civil to each other. So one morning, when I had a few minutes I took a picture of the chair and texted it to her that if she wanted it to come to my home within the next ten minutes and she could have it (I needed to be at my office and didnt want to sit around all morning waiting on her to come and get it, she lives with the POSOM 5 blocks from me) she did not reply immediately, but an hour later texted me that she had not received the text until just then, but wanted to come get it, I agreeded, saying "come get it now and you can have it" (my office is only 5 minutes from my home) I then proceeded to go home and wait on her arrival. She got there about 5 minutes after I did. When she arrived I let my dog out to see my xw as I knew she (the dog) would be excited to see her, and of course she was. As my xw got out of POS's truck she (my xw) began crying and petting the dog. I stood at my garage waiting for her to walk up to me, thanking me for giving her the chair, which I was under no obligation to do, looking forward to maybe a few minutes of polite conversation. As she got within 10 feet of me she started screaming at me! Saying I was trying to manipulate her! She had taken my "be there in 10 minutes" as me yanking her strings that I would dispose of the chair if she didnt come right away, which is not correct I just would have set another time up. As she began to scream, I lost my cool and yelled back at her, explaining that she was the one who slept with our mutual friend. She immediatly turned and started back to the OMs truck, I followed with chair in hand to give to her. She jumped into the truck and after a few words between us said, "I never want to see you again MF**ker!" and drove off. 
I noticed after she left that for the first time since DDay (july 2011) when I saw her I did not have that "God, I love her and want her back" reaction. Instead I noticed where 20 pounds of the 60 I had lost went (to her a**) she not only had gained weight but looked bad! Here all this time I thought she and the OM were at his home living it up, and I can tell that that is way far from the truth! I know she is miserable, this did not make me feel happy, but rather a bit sorry for her. I have improved my life by a factor of 20, my kids love and adore me, I am in great shape and women are certainly noticing! She is crashing and burning big time. Usually after any contact with her or her attorney I am done for the day, not able to think, just miserable. That night after work I went and had the best workout in two months! Since the meeting, I have noticed that I still think about us. But mostly I think of the dates I have coming up, the trips I have and am going to take, how good I really have it. I think my emotional side finally heard my logical side saying, "you are better off, she is not worth pineing over". I am trying to not get to high, as I know from experience and these boards, that more down times are coming, but cant help but notice that now, 5 days later, I still feel positive about the direction I am going, about the days ahead. It is amazing how the WW still sees me as the bad guy, blames me for her situation and feelings......


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## Eli-Zor

Smile, laugh at her misfortune and move on. The thoughts you have of her are detrimental to you, if you feel up to it go out with a few female friends their attention will help you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## spudster

Seeing you in person for the first time in a long time unleashed the guilt she was feeling about what she did to you; but according to script, she redirected her anger away from herself and lashed out at you.

The pathology of the cheating mind never ceases to amaze does it? 

Go out and live a little. Date some pretty women and get your self image back up to proper level. Watch as your wife and POSOM drown in the cesspool of their own depravity. It's going to be ugly. Your wife has abandoned her morals, and is now a bloated, hollow vessel. 

She did you a favor.


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## TBT

Hoosier,

I'm quite a few years out now from divorcing my WW,but because all my memories travel with me there are still tiny moments of sadness from time to time.Years dim the pain to really nothing at all.Wish you peace on the journey you're taking now.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

You'll be okay Hoosier.


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## morituri

You must stop all contact with her and live your life as though she never existed.


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## Hoosier

Update: Well tomorrow is the 2nd anniversary of DDay. I have been mildly depressed all last week. So doing the only thing I know that helps, I picked up the intensity of my training (needed to anyway, doing a 2.4 and 1.2 mile swim race in October in Las Vegas) and quit drinking any amount of alcohol. Started feeling better almost immediately. I started to read this thread again, decided to do it some other day, if ever, as it is still painful to read. My xw married the POSOM July of last year. And even tho she lives 5 blocks from me in a small town of 8100, I have not seen her or him, even in passing, in 16 months. I do know the following:
1. She continues to gain weight, her own sister told me that she has continued to gain.
2. She has only seen our 2 year old granddaughter one time since Oct of 2011. And that was when my eldest came home during the holidays and went to the xw's home for a visit. They do talk on the phone, and photos are sent, but the POSOM is not welcome in my daughters home (live in Florida) and he will not allow my xw to go without him. The xw continues to tell my daughter that she doesn't have the money to visit (Im going next week, for a week, as I have every three months since GD was born, purchased my round trip flight ticket for $250, airport is 20 minutes from daughters home) although they just bought a new camper last month,,,,guessing $5k worth.
3. The POSOM does not allow my xw to have her own cell phone. He has one, that he allows her to use, but keeps it on his person all the rest of the time. Because my youngest (22) does not like him, wont call her mother, as you have to go thru him to talk to her. They (d and xw) have not talked since early 2012.
4. POSOM looks bad (he is now 65, xw is 53) as noted by more than one person who has seen him. I am hopeful his cancer is coming back and it takes him real slow.
5. To her, her 5 brothers, and her mother I am the bad guy. Have not conversed with any of them since this happened. No, sorry for your troubles, no hope you are well, only my xmil saying "I never liked him anyway" Married 30 years...wow.
With all the negativity, I can still say life is great! I have dated a number of great women, half of which make more, have more than me, and I do ok. I love and talk to all 3 of my daughters weekly. Bought my granddaughter her own IPad, and although she is only 2, she can operate it, and we Skype weekly, she screams PA PA! when she sees me . GD Doesn't know how to call me...yet, but it is only a matter of time. xw does not have internet so they never Skype. To those new to the infidelity game, I can only say HANG IN THERE! I so much looked forward to the golden years with my wife, but she choose another route. I still struggle sometimes trying to figure out how she could have done what she did, then remember that to try and understand someone who is crazy, is......crazy. The pain is going away slowly, but it is going away. It will go away for you as well. I couldn't remember the title for my thread, when I saw it I think I named it correctly, because I still cant believe I ever needed to post in this forum. I just wonder if I will ever love someone that much again, don't think so. Maybe its because I am not young and impressionable anymore, I hope that's it. I hope I haven't lost the ability to love completely. Recently was asked when I was getting married again. I replied: "whenever the lead sniper on Seal Team 6 misses, as I have them on retainer with explicit instructions that if I EVER walk down the aisle again, take me out!" Thanks again to all my TAM friends, I couldn't do it without you. I have made it my lifes work to refer people to this forum who need it, as I know what it did for me.


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## tom67

Wow thanks for the update. Life is looking good for you.


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## Bluecollar

Just curious...you think it was menopause that made her flip out?
Age is about right.
My mother was TERRIBLE when she went thru it, didn't cheat on my dad that I know of, but terrible enough that I wouldn't blame you for hiding at your office if she was like that or worse.


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## Chaparral

Well its all been a bad deal. Otoh, you have definitely come out on top.

Good luck with the ladies, don't be shocked if one doesn't sweep you away from the past.


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## BashfulB

You definitely made lemonade out of a big two ton lemon. What an inspirational story!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem

Sounds like your XW is in a living hell and her OM is obsessive about controlling her. Its obvious that she's miserable, but she's too stubborn and prideful to ever tell you that. But she made her bed, she can lie in it. She's not your problem anymore, she's OM's problem now. 

As for the in-laws, well, the saying is true: Blood is thicker than water. No big loss there. People who approve her affair and call you the bad guy, aren't worthy of your respect or your time anyway.


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## Why Not Be Happy?

I'm proud of you Hoosier.


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## Hoosier

BlueCollar: As for the menopause thing. I wondered that myself, think it may have been a part of the reason. But really, my xw has always had some issues and I just think it is them getting worse and worse. Throw in that the POSOM was a friend, knew us well, knew how to manipulate her, knew exactly what to say and when to say it, and it becomes clearer how it happened. That being said, I have found out that she was routinely complaining about me to her best friend (who she no longer talks to) and she never ever mentioned anything to me. She is really damaged goods, and it aint getting any better!

LM: Do you know my xw? lol You are exactly right, she is miserable and she will never fess up to it. He is controlling all that she does, and that was another complaint she had about me, that I was to controlling! Had more that one person tell me that I would some day be glad she is gone, not there completely yet, but getting closer each day. You were one of the main people that was there for me, and I owe you big time. I did read a bit of this last night, and I was amazed at how often people were spot on as to what was happening, and you my friend were probably the most accurate. Thank you again, and if ever you get to Northern Indiana I owe you a beer!

Why Not: Thank you for your kind words. My counselor told me that I "am amazingly resilient". I feel that I was just lucky enough to have found TAM when I did, between TAM and my counselor you pulled me thru.


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## BashfulB

If she could swallow her pride do you think she would ask you to take her back? Or did she completely rewrite the history of your marriage to the point where she believes her own lies?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado

Any chance you can move closer to your grand kid?
It's obvious how much joy you get out of loving her.


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## Hoosier

Bashful: She will NEVER admit she is wrong. NEVER ask me to take her back. Her MO is to shun someone she has issues with. She quit talking to her sister 12 years ago. Walks out of a room if sis walks in. And no one, not me, her sister, no one knows what happened what the problem is. The amazing thing is I know of at least 5 people she has done the same thing to. Take her back? No way! I do wish she was a bit more stable for my kids and grandchilds sake. She was a great mother to our kids, they were her life. Now she speaks occasionally to my oldest, (29)mostly about my granddaughter, my middle daughter (26 lives in Los Angeles) calls her once a month, told me it was like having a job, and xw hasn't talked to my youngest (22) in over a year. As to what she believes...who knows?

Acabado: I own my own business, so cant relocate. Funny tho, I started my business in 1989. For the first 10 years worked 70-90 hours a week. Next 10 about 55-60. Since DDay I have rethought the whole deal, and for example from now til the end of the year, I have a week off, EVERY month except Oct when I am taking 10 days. (to swim in Vegas, then stopping in Denver on the way back for 4 days of the Great American Beer Festival) I have a condo on the beach in the Caymans end of August, taking my two youngest daughters (oldest invited not able to attend) to celebrate my youngest graduating from College. My xw did not even have a open house for her (I did) nor did my XMIL, or anyone in that family except for my sister in law, even acknowledge the accomplishment. And my two youngest daughters are the only ones in that family (probably 25 kids) who graduated from college. 

Within a week of DDay I talked with my middle daughter, her words, "Dad, I love mom, she was a great mother, but mom has never been happy, you tried to make her happy and you couldn't, mom will never be happy. You can do better!" Now 2 years later I cherish these words, as they remind me that I wasn't crazy, I wasn't a bad guy, I made mistakes, I am not perfect, but you cant control other people and their actions. You have to do whats right, take care of those you love, enjoy life with those that love you....... I am!


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## Acabado

Your posts transpire calm and joy. It's really a healing story.

... what about a new beggining? No GF at sight?


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## Hoosier

Acabado: Yes, have dated quite a bit. One woman for a year. She is a great gal, we get along great. That being said, I have no interest in being married. Not yet anyway. Today I did sit down and read thru this entire post, not painful as I expected but more of a realization of how far I really have come. One post I read told me that I should divorce as quick as possible, as when a guy is in his 50's there are a lot of women interested in dating. I find this to be absolutely correct! A friend told me I had the three P's (Personality, Property, and a paycheck) and I would do fine, and I have, actually way better than "fine" lol. I am being picky and am determined to not settle.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

Hoosier said:


> *Within a week of DDay I talked with my middle daughter, her words, "Dad, I love mom, she was a great mother, but mom has never been happy, you tried to make her happy and you couldn't, mom will never be happy. You can do better!"* Now 2 years later I cherish these words, as they remind me that I wasn't crazy, I wasn't a bad guy, I made mistakes, I am not perfect, but you cant control other people and their actions. You have to do whats right, take care of those you love, enjoy life with those that love you....... I am!


What a great, loving and VERY wise_for_her_years, Daughter.

She sounds allot like my own Daughter.:smthumbup:


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## MattMatt

So, your xw replaced a man who was not a monster, but who she told everyone was a monster, with a man who is a monster, but who she tells everyone isn't a monster? :wtf:
:crazy:


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## Acabado

MattMatt said:


> So, your xw replaced a man who was not a monster, but who she told everyone was a monster, with a man who is a monster, but who she tells everyone isn't a monster? :wtf:
> :crazy:


It's seems her MO is to cut off everyone she believes did her some wrongdoing. No explanations.
She burned every bridge, even her former confidant. How the hell is she going to tell her she got out of the (false) frying pan into the (real) fire? It's just becasue her legendary pride? Wait, she doesn't have a cell phone to call her!


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## MattMatt

Acabado said:


> It's seems her MO is to cut off everyone she believes did her some wrongdoing. No explanations.
> She burned every bridge, even her former confidant. How the hell is she going to tell her she got out of the (false) frying pan into the (real) fire? It's just becasue her legendary pride? Wait, she doesn't have a cell phone to call her!


 Unless she thinks it is karma that as she did the dirty on her good, decent husband that she has to stay with the monster?:scratchhead:


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## happyman64

Hoosier

I am so glad you updated us, I think of you often and the raw deal you got.

I remember you as a man that truly loved his wife and kids.

You have every right to be picky.

Funny how your Ex called you controlling. Then married the most controlling man who claimed to be your friend.

Keep laughing even if the laugh is bitter.

Enjoy life and be as picky as you want. When you do settle on a woman she will be leaps and bounds above your exwife minus the crazy....

HM64


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## Hoosier

Update: Hello all. I am posting today as an update and to hopefully give others going thru a tough time a ray of hope.

Next week will be the 3 year anniversary of my divorce. I sat down today and reviewed this thread. WOW! Funny how you forget some things, things that were said and things that happened. I read the first few pages and I remember the hurt, the confusion, the total feelings of being lost. Others need to know:

1. Time is the answer....Time! Why just last year reading this thread would of put me thru the wringer, I would have needed to take the rest of the day off. Today I read this thread and while I remember the desperation, I dont even begin to feel bad. While I still have moments of sense of loss, they are fewer and farther between. While I use to think about my situation literally every 5 minutes, I now go thru days and even sometimes weeks without giving it a thought. THIS WILL BE YOU, after some time has passed. 

2. My granddaughter is the cutest kid in the universe! I have continued to travel to Florida to see her every three months, staying for a week each time. I gave her an IPad a year ago to make Skypeing with her easier. She now uses it to call ME about every day ON HER OWN! She loves to get me online, then set the IPad down so I can watch her play, and we can converse. LOL In every conversation she makes sure that I am coming to her house soon, that we will go to the beach, that we will go see the alligators, that we will go to Tripps (a small neighborhood diner, and our favorite place) for breakfast, and I will blow on her tummy! My xw has only seen her twice, the last time six months ago, when her and her husband (the POSOM) were in Florida to see HIS Stepgranddaughter get married. They stopped by for dinner (didn't even take them out) when my daughter told them about gd skypeing with me, my xw said "Wish I could do that, but I dont even have a computer". My daughter mentioned she had an older laptop in which the battery was bad, but if plugged in it works fine, offered to give it to the xw. Her husband, sitting there in front of everyone said, "No! why if we had internet you would just be on sites you dont need to be on." End of conversation. 

3. My daughter is doing great! She has a boyfriend who I like a lot. He has no kids of his own, and worships the ground my gd walks on. They (my daughter and him) are engaged to be married next May, are closing on a house next month, and she has been at her current job a year and a half making $40k a year, and getting letters of commendation from the CEO (I have seen them). The sperm doner is really out of the picture, he has not seen my gd in over three years, and appears to be open to letting the boyfriend adopt. I continue to monitor the situation, ever vigilant, but my daughter has never been this long at a job, and I tell you my gd is thriving!

4. My xw and the POSOM have moved out of our small town, about 30 minutes away, but now have no reason to be around here and I can finally go to the grocery store without wondering if I will run into them. The POSOM does not allow her to have her own cell phone, if you want to talk with her you have to call him and ask for her. They do not have a land line, no internet, and live in the boonies in an old deserted church they bought and are fixing up. She already has complained the the money I gave them is spent, and she recently went for the first time ever to visit my middle daughter in California, and from the photos posted on FB I can tell you she hasn't purchased any new clothes either. I have not seen her (xw) since Feb of 2012, when I gave her the last of her stuff and she told me that she never wanted to see me again you MFer! No problem here lady!

5. I have dated a number of really great women, my current gf and I have been dating a year and a half. I never see myself getting married again, heck I dont even want to live together for now. My gf is good with this, as she works in a town 40 minutes away, has a great job, and we spend almost every weekend together doing fun things, appreciating each other. I was told early on that being in my 50's that in dating the advantage is in my corner, and they were right! 

To you newly BS's, hang in there! Listen to the folks here on TAM, they know what they talk about. While my life is not all roses and silk, I AM happier then I would of been in my dysfunctional marriage. I never thought I would see sunshine again just three years ago, and just last week my brother and I high fived during a discussion on the happenings of my divorce. This can be you, but its going to take some time and work on your part. Good luck to you and God bless.

Hoosier.


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## happyman64

Hoosier

Glad you checked in and updated us.

Great to hear your girls and granddaughter are doing well.

Keep being the best dad and Grandpa you can be.

Very happy to hear you have a steady GF that makes you happy.

You deserve it.

HM


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## Hoosier

*!"*

Posting an update, not so much for me, as it is for others, time is the answer:

My youngest daughter got married this last weekend, here in Indiana. I flew down to Florida to get my granddaughter for the ceremony (she is now 5) as her mother was not able to attend. It was the first time many of my family met her. She was thrilled!!
The day my youngest got married was always a big deal for me in the future as I dreaded the needed communications with my x. Turns out I needn't of worried. At my suggestion, my youngest sought out her mother to invite her to the wedding. (Turns out my youngest had not talked to her mother in over 3 years). My x's answer was for my daughter and her fiancé drive two hours north to a Mexican restaurant 5 minutes from her house for dinner to get together before the wedding (my daughters insistence, as my x had not even met the fiance'). 15 minutes into the dinner, things going pretty well, my x said "Now for me to be the bad guy, WHY HAVENT YOU CALLED ME IN 3 YEARS?" WTF? don't think she would of like the answer myself, but with the question it was on (as reported to me by my now son in law) and 5 minutes later my daughter left the restaurant and they were on their way home. Bottom line: My x did not attend the wedding. WOW!
I arranged for my granddaughter to spend some time with her grandmother (the x) as my x has only seen my granddaughter once in the last 4 years (her husband, the POSOM, will not let her travel to Florida with out him and he doesn't want to go, so no visiting). So I met my x at the airport and I DID NOT RECOGNIZE her at first (been 4 years) She looked like crap, was dressed like crap, and never once looked me in the eye. Most importantly for me, I absolutely felt no emotional attachment at all! If you look back in this thread you will see that I was as attached as any BS could be, all I wanted many times was my marriage back. I lost 18 pounds in 9 days, did not work for a year. If I can make it this far SO CAN YOU! Time my friends, time.


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## bankshot1993

Hoosier, I could spend the rest of my day re-reading this post. It reminds me that sometimes a old fashioned feel good story can come out of even the biggest pile of steaming dung. My heart is warmed by your peace and happiness. Good on you.


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## happyman64

Congratulations on your youngest getting married.

Keep moving forward Hoosier.

Glad you had time with your granddaughter as well.


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## lordmayhem

*Re: !"*



Hoosier said:


> Posting an update, not so much for me, as it is for others, time is the answer:
> 
> My youngest daughter got married this last weekend, here in Indiana. I flew down to Florida to get my granddaughter for the ceremony (she is now 5) as her mother was not able to attend. It was the first time many of my family met her. She was thrilled!!
> The day my youngest got married was always a big deal for me in the future as I dreaded the needed communications with my x. Turns out I needn't of worried. At my suggestion, my youngest sought out her mother to invite her to the wedding. (Turns out my youngest had not talked to her mother in over 3 years). My x's answer was for my daughter and her fiancé drive two hours north to a Mexican restaurant 5 minutes from her house for dinner to get together before the wedding (my daughters insistence, as my x had not even met the fiance'). 15 minutes into the dinner, things going pretty well, my x said "Now for me to be the bad guy, WHY HAVENT YOU CALLED ME IN 3 YEARS?" WTF? don't think she would of like the answer myself, but with the question it was on (as reported to me by my now son in law) and 5 minutes later my daughter left the restaurant and they were on their way home. Bottom line: My x did not attend the wedding. WOW!
> I arranged for my granddaughter to spend some time with her grandmother (the x) as my x has only seen my granddaughter once in the last 4 years (her husband, the POSOM, will not let her travel to Florida with out him and he doesn't want to go, so no visiting). So I met my x at the airport and I DID NOT RECOGNIZE her at first (been 4 years) She looked like crap, was dressed like crap, and never once looked me in the eye. Most importantly for me, I absolutely felt no emotional attachment at all! If you look back in this thread you will see that I was as attached as any BS could be, all I wanted many times was my marriage back. I lost 18 pounds in 9 days, did not work for a year. If I can make it this far SO CAN YOU! Time my friends, time.


Congrats. Like I told you before, your XWW is miserable but too prideful to ever admit it. The proof is staring at you in the face. She looks like absolute crap. Life with OM must be great huh? (NOT!).


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## Chaparral

Bless her heart, what a disaster for her.


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## Palodyne

I just discovered your thread and read back over it. I'm glad life is moving forward in a positive way for you. I guess your XW is learning that the grass isn't always greener on the other side. She gave up her entire family for a POSOM that doesn't trust her as far as he can throw her, because he knows she has the ability to cheat. Enjoy your kids and your grandkids, and I hope you find continued good fortune moving forward with life.


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## wmn1

*Re: !"*



Hoosier said:


> Posting an update, not so much for me, as it is for others, time is the answer:
> 
> My youngest daughter got married this last weekend, here in Indiana. I flew down to Florida to get my granddaughter for the ceremony (she is now 5) as her mother was not able to attend. It was the first time many of my family met her. She was thrilled!!
> The day my youngest got married was always a big deal for me in the future as I dreaded the needed communications with my x. Turns out I needn't of worried. At my suggestion, my youngest sought out her mother to invite her to the wedding. (Turns out my youngest had not talked to her mother in over 3 years). My x's answer was for my daughter and her fiancé drive two hours north to a Mexican restaurant 5 minutes from her house for dinner to get together before the wedding (my daughters insistence, as my x had not even met the fiance'). 15 minutes into the dinner, things going pretty well, my x said "Now for me to be the bad guy, WHY HAVENT YOU CALLED ME IN 3 YEARS?" WTF? don't think she would of like the answer myself, but with the question it was on (as reported to me by my now son in law) and 5 minutes later my daughter left the restaurant and they were on their way home. Bottom line: My x did not attend the wedding. WOW!
> I arranged for my granddaughter to spend some time with her grandmother (the x) as my x has only seen my granddaughter once in the last 4 years (her husband, the POSOM, will not let her travel to Florida with out him and he doesn't want to go, so no visiting). So I met my x at the airport and I DID NOT RECOGNIZE her at first (been 4 years) She looked like crap, was dressed like crap, and never once looked me in the eye. Most importantly for me, I absolutely felt no emotional attachment at all! If you look back in this thread you will see that I was as attached as any BS could be, all I wanted many times was my marriage back. I lost 18 pounds in 9 days, did not work for a year. If I can make it this far SO CAN YOU! Time my friends, time.



good for you Hoosier. Glad things are turning out well for you. Karma is a real B**** for the ex. She deserves what she gets IMO. Sorry about the impacts on your family. Glad your daughters are holding their ethical ground


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## SunCMars

One thing that I noted about @Hoosiers saga and post was the lack of women who responded to his woes. There were a few.

I think that this is normal behavior. Women identify with women's issues and pain and men with men in these CWI stories. 

This is a generalization, some men get an abundance of women's sympathy card's.. throughout the drama and real life soap-operas.

It is the players and the play-out.... that determines the audience.


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## Hoosier

Last and final update:

I just wanted to post a final update, not because I am leaving TAM but because I wanted to let those just now going thru the pain of infidelity to have a positive outcome to read, and when I say positive, I mean POSITIVE.

My grandaughter in Florida is moving to Indiana! The four annual trips to St. Pete sure took a chunk of time and money. Totally worth it, she is now 7 and we are as close as a grandparent and grandchild can be. Her grandmother (my x) still has not went to Florida to see her. My granddaughter has came up for a week the last two summers and was here two weeks during the last hurricane. I made arrangments for her to stay at her grandmothers during all the visits, for multiple overnights, not to help out the x but to make it possible for my granddaughter to have a real relationship with her, I think that is important. People say "but you pay for her to fly (or go get her), pick her up, deliver her, I wouldnt do that!" But it is not that bad, we have a McDonalds half way between us, we exchange in the parking lot, yet to say one word to each other, and the only time I have seen the X since Feb of 2012.

My x (who did not attend my youngest daughter wedding two years ago) still has no relationship with my yougest daugher. Has not even met her three step grandchildren. I believe because of the POSOM influence, but at some point it falls on on her. She has missed so much, I almost feel sorry for her, almost.

I have had a couple of relationships, lots of dates, in the last almost seven years. The one thing I remember thinking is "how am I ever going to find another woman?" THAT HAS NOT BEEN A PROBLEM>>>>AT ALL! In fact its been quite the opposite, trying to keep them from getting their hooks into me........lol. I am nearing three years in my current relationship, with the absolute best woman I have dated. She and I are extremly compatable, like the same music, she is always up for an adventure, and we travel a lot. (Spring break in San Antonio this year, Ft. Myers last, Colorado in June,our third trip there and either Vegas or Los Angeles in the fall.) My only negative, if it is, is my desire to maintain my independence. We do not live together, live 30 minutes apart, see each other every weekend, trading whos house, and usually during the week. She has expressed a desire for more, but I am not at all wanting to..... somebody told me that Dr. Phil would say I am "broken" and maybe I am, but I really like my independence. 

The POSOM who is 15 years older than I and my xw (58) is not doing so well. He currently sleeps in a hospital bed as a month ago he broke an ankle changing a battery in a smoke detector. Being cheep. He elected to NOT have even basic Medicare coverage, choosing instead to rely on the VA benefits. When he broke the ankle they had to drive an hour to the nearest VA facility only to find that his lungs are not good enough for surgury, and they sent him back home. Couldnt happen to a nicer guy, my "friend" of 20 years. I dont him to die to soon, needs to suffer a bit more. 

They constantly have money problems, but yet she will not get a job, he doesnt want her to, hard to keep track of her if she does.

When it all went down, a friend told me that in a few years I would be sending him a case of wine on DDay thanking him. I really could of done that the last two years.

Married 30 years, the surprise of the Affair caused me to have PTSD symptoms. Two years in I thought I was all better. But honestly only in the last year have I come close to being as productive at work as I was. I would tell people "I am all better now" and realize 6 months later that I was even BETTER. The one thing I would caution anyone in similiar situation....time..... it is going to really take some time.... for me its almost 7 years and I now feel I am at 90%. The good thing is as far as quality of life, I am at 120% of where I was when I was married.

I still thank God everyday for the folks at TAM. They got me thru it! I think the one thing I did best, was LISTEN to the advice, and ACT on it. Not all of it was good advice, but having sometimes two sides to an argument helps discern which is best for you. But you must LISTEN< ANALYZE<ACT.

In closing, hopefully this will help someone, I know when it was all fresh, I liked people reporting back later, it gave me hope. To my TAM friends..........love ya, come by for a beer anytime.

Hoosier.


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## skerzoid

:wink2ear Hoosier:

Read your whole thread in one sitting tonight. Congratulations on being The Man for your family. You will always be loved by those around you. 

She will never be loved by anyone. Misery forever. Sad. Her own choice. The price of being a traitor.

Keep on being the loving Grandfather. And congrats on being a "Sexy Grandpa". You are like a fine wine, you just keep getting better with age.

Thanks for being a role model to your family and your TAM family. :wink2:


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## Hoosier

Just an update. Realizing that this original Thread is 9 years old and anyone who followed it probably long gone. Anyway.............

Well the POSOM dies yesterday. Not sure what did him in, but he had had a bout with cancer some time back, but really a lot of things were going wrong. He ended up being married to my xw for just under 7 years. She is now 60 (he was 72) and with no job, thank god her mother left her some money last year or she would be looking at NO funds coming in. (Cant draw SSI until she is 62, called the widow black out period). Either way that monthly check is stopping. 

In the obit, my middle daughter, who remains in contact with her mother, is the only surviving Step daughter listed, my granddaughter is listed (but not her mom!). Also in the Obit. my xw uses her maiden name when their marriage is noted, ummmm dont think that was her name, hadnt been "maiden" for over 30 years. 

A few years ago I would of been buying drinks at the local pub in celebration. I think its a very good sign that really no emotion sprang forth. Cant say I am not glad he is gone (more like I am glad I out lasted him) but now I can finally put away those thoughts (still get them couple times a year) where I am going to have it out with him, tell him what I really think. He is dead not even a starter. I feel kinda sorry for my xw. She has lost her relationship with two of her three daughters, missed out on 6 of my granddaugters 8 years, lives in a converted church in the boonies (away from shame I think) and she is mentally ill, I seriously believe that. The POSOM was very manipulative (she was a willing partner, no breaks here on that) and now maybe some healing can happen. As while I will always hate what she did, I still think it very important for my daughters to have a relationship with her. Currently two do not. 

I look back at the start of this thread and realize how far I have come. Remarried last year, traveling 3 or 4 times a year, going to my grandkids stuff, I really am better off than I would of been. Hard to see that when **** is going down, but it is true. This can be you. 

For those of you just starting this journey, keep positive, keep pushing forward, take the high road, dont give up, improve yourself. Time, time is the answer. Time to heal, time to go thru it in your head 2 million times until you can either figure it all out (not me) or you can get to the point that it really doesnt matter.(thats me) Some day that POS is going to die, and it really isnt going to matter to you. As his effect and place on/in your life is long gone. And the fact that it doesnt matter feels really good.

Hoosier


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## farsidejunky

It can't be said enough:

The best revenge is to live well. 

Nice update, brother. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## TDSC60

Very good update. But you need to quit trying to make decisions about your daughter's relationship with the XW.

They are adults and can make that decision on their own. It is up to them, not you and what you "think" is best.

Enjoy your new life and allow your daughters the same courtesy without interference. 

If they ask your opinion, give it to them....if they don't, leave it alone.


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## VladDracul

TDSC60 said:


> But you need to quit trying to make decisions about your daughter's relationship with the XW.


Amen to that. As a job, it ranks right up there with oil well fire specialist and stopping cattle stampedes.


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## Hoosier

FY!> I do not interfer/discuss/plan to help, with my daughters and xw relationship. I stay ALLLLLLOOOONNNGGG WAYS from that. I just wish for them a better relationship. But NEVER discuss their mother with them, as I agree, they are adults let them work it out. 

Thanks all for your likes and replys!


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## MattMatt

Good to hear from you again, @Hoosier!

And yes, there are a lot of us older TAM members who followed your story.

As far as your ex-wife is concerned... Wait! What's this?

It's karma.


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## Kamstel

Glad to hear things have turned out so well for you. 


But.......lol...... just for old times sake..... how about the day after he is buried, you wake up and have at least 3 or 4 very large cups of coffee, and then go to his grave and pay your respects, if you get what I’m suggesting. Lol

Congrats on coming out the other side in such great shape


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## Buffer

👍


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## Hoosier

Kamstel said:


> Glad to hear things have turned out so well for you.
> 
> 
> But.......lol...... just for old times sake..... how about the day after he is buried, you wake up and have at least 3 or 4 very large cups of coffee, and then go to his grave and pay your respects, if you get what I’m suggesting. Lol
> 
> Congrats on coming out the other side in such great shape



Oh, I have thought of that, more than once. I dont believe he is being buried, but have my ear to the ground. 

Astounded by the number of likes, thank you all.


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## Taxman

Me, I would filter a bottle of vodka through my kidneys all over his grave. PLUS...I would be willing to bet Hoosier's ex will suddenly darken his door. Even ten years down the road, I have seen this behavior. Entitlement on steroids. The entitlement is present in stepping out of the marriage for an affair, and I have yet to see it mellow.

PS, if you hear he is being cremated, send along a cord of dried firewood. Send your ex a pig statue or dildo to hold his ashes.


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