# Reached the end of the line



## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi. First time posting. This goes back so long, over not just finances but also online infidelity (on my part). Now I'm at the breaking point.

The affair happened with one person halfway across the country several times over a few years, and ended in April. I have not wanted nor had any contact. Obviously trust issues are a big part of my marriage. We have been in therapy since shortly after (May), and much of what we've learned is the way I react to things is push them aside, quickly lie about them to avoid trouble, while making bigger messes. Now that has happened big time in regards to my finances.

I will completely admit that I am not very responsible, I've taken $$ from various accounts to cover others, and even taken from my wife's personal account to deposit in ours without her knowledge. We (really I because I've done the taxes) have racked up tens of thousands in back taxes, and yesterday our state froze her personal account, and another is on the way for our joint. I was not responsible for handling this situation previously, and I pleaded to not punish my wife and 4 year olds (who no doubt will leave me now) for my actions. She wanted me this morning to look into why her one account was all negative, and I will tell her the truth. I am at the lowest point in my life and I realize I have nobody to blame but myself. I promised to change my ways, but did not. I became worse. 

I am lost. I know I will garner no sympathy here, and I'm not looking for any. I was wrong, I am full of regret and remorse and have told the state tax person to go after me and nobody else. It's even come to the point where I have written letters to family and other people explaining things and apologizing. I've been in dark places while writing them, and I admit to even leaving it open ended in terms of not being around anymore. 

Can anyone provide me with advice? As I said, if it is harsh so be it. I get it. I truly, truly do. I have been an awful husband, father and citizen here. I recognize that. No pity party here, just for once in my life I am owning my stuff. Completely.

Thanks.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So what did the "state tax people" have to say? Do you have the money to talk to a lawyer? Any community or publically funded credit counseling services available in your area?

You say you're owning your issues, but you still haven't come clean to your wife. What does that say to you?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Btw... Why did HER account get frozen, and not one with your name on it?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Take your lumps and consult a financial adviser. And maybe a bankruptcy lawyer. Don't make any promises to anyone.

Does your wife know about the online crap you did? Was it only online?


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

It was married filed jointly. They are going after joint account too.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Take your lumps and consult a financial adviser. And maybe a bankruptcy lawyer. Don't make any promises to anyone.
> 
> Does your wife know about the online crap you did? Was it only online?


Oh yes she absolutely is 100% aware of the online stuff that went on. 

One of the things that our therapist has established is that my lying and deflecting of things is a habit, one that i've been using as my default setting for my whole life (i'm 36). Avoiding getting in trouble etc... Obviously it hasn't worked out for me. She did say that it would be extremely hard to overcome. I know I've fallen short and let everyone down. I know I haven't come clean about this to my wife out of fear of the very thing that I know will now happen.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> So what did the "state tax people" have to say? Do you have the money to talk to a lawyer? Any community or publically funded credit counseling services available in your area?
> 
> You say you're owning your issues, but you still haven't come clean to your wife. What does that say to you?
> 
> ...


I don't have the money to talk to a lawyer, though i'm sure i'll need one as this will be the final straw with my wife in terms of my selfish, irresponsible behavior.

The tax guy said they just put out a levy for any accounts attached to us, and though he understands my wanting to take complete responsibility and absolve her as she did not know that I was not following through with the promises I made to the state tax man, what's done is done and since she is a joint filer she is unfortunately part. 

As far as coming clean, read above. I know this is tough for many, to come clean, and it's easy for someone just to say "do it". The feeling that I have when stuff like this happens is hard to describe. Perhaps self-preservation? selfishness for sure. That said, I am going to and face the grave consequences. 



> You say you're owning your issues, but you still haven't come clean to your wife. What does that say to you?


It says I haven't changed, I'm a liar, thief and not a good husband, father or person.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

The fact you've realized what you've done says to me that you aren't a bad PERSON. A bad person would just run away from his problems yet again and refuse to face them. 

Consider this a learning experience. A horrible painful one, but a learning experience nonetheless. And then LEARN from it. Once you dig yourself out of this mess, don't ever get yourself into one ever again. Resolve to make yourself the best man you can be.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> The fact you've realized what you've done says to me that you aren't a bad PERSON. A bad person would just run away from his problems yet again and refuse to face them.
> 
> Consider this a learning experience. A horrible painful one, but a learning experience nonetheless. And then LEARN from it. Once you dig yourself out of this mess, don't ever get yourself into one ever again. Resolve to make yourself the best man you can be.


That's been my problem, running and not facing or communicating my problems. In the eyes of a few, I am a bad husband, etc... Right now, leading up to telling her everything, I have no idea how I can get out of this mess, or worse, how my wife and kids will get out. They have great support systems, which will help. I know I should have thought about that beforehand. Totally agree.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Rangers1-

My ex husband had done a lot dishonest things during our marriage (mostly money related). Although there was the financial impact...the part that was so destructive was the dishonesty... it really brings everything...EVERYTHING...into question.

But one thing that you have going for you (at least with how you've expressed yourself in this thread), is that you seem to have a genuine conviction to change...to make things right...to truly amend for your actions that have brought you (and your family here)...

...I'm praying that you have the opportunity to make amends and that your wife will be open to accept your offer.

Know that, regardless of the outcome of collateral damage this may bring with regard to your marriage, please persevere in doing the right thing and setting things right for yourself....you have the opportunity to regain your integrity.... TAKE IT!!!!

Best wishes for you!


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> Rangers1-
> 
> My ex husband had done a lot dishonest things during our marriage (mostly money related). Although there was the financial impact...the part that was so destructive was the dishonesty... it really brings everything...EVERYTHING...into question.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the kind words. Like I said this is the last straw i'm sure, and I don't see her wanting to stay. 

It kills me to think of how much damage I've done to us and the kids, and how I've betrayed everyone around me.

That's a point that has come up in therapy, if for nothing else, do this to make change in myself. I do want to change, following through has always been my weak point. Living like this is hell. She is depressed, lost, feels like her life is wasting away. I don't know anymore


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Take another job to earn the money. Work 16 hours a day if you have to. Borrow money, refinance, I don't know. That's why I suggested a financial adviser.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> Rangers1-
> 
> My ex husband had done a lot dishonest things during our marriage (mostly money related). Although there was the financial impact...the part that was so destructive was the dishonesty... it really brings everything...EVERYTHING...into question.
> 
> ...





> the part that was so destructive was the dishonesty... it really brings everything...EVERYTHING...into question.


I agree and this point has come up many many times in therapy. What compounds this is the escape from reality online affair I had with someone across the country, not once, not twice, but three times since 2009, ending April 1st 2013. There's not much left that I bring to the table, and I know that she just doesn't know where to do, that I'm all she knows...


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Hope1964 said:


> Take another job to earn the money. Work 16 hours a day if you have to. Borrow money, refinance, I don't know. That's why I suggested a financial adviser.


Yeah I'm trying to figure that out. Working that much is hard since we do have twins and she works long hours. I've tanked credit so borrowing and refinancing are out. That option has been brought up before and I've honestly dragged my feet because a) I wanted to fix things first and b) I knew that all the crap I've done would come out and I was afraid to face it. Cowardly.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Rangers1:

Good for you for manning-up!

1) Tax problems: Tax Topics - Topic 205 Innocent Spouse Relief (Including Separation of Liability and Equitable Relief) The IRS does offer "innocent spouse" relief. Please contact the IRS directly and inquire about whether your wife would qualify. 

2) Bankruptcy problems: Look in the phone book of the nearest metropolitan area or google "Legal Aid" in your area. They offer sliding-scale (or free) legal advice based on what you can afford.

3) Contact local mental health agencies and see what you can find for yourself with regard to:

counseling to overcome your lying/aversion/manipulation 
financial counseling that may be available to you
4) Accept that your wife may very well divorce you. That is a fact. You should concentrate on becoming a better MAN...for yourself, for your kids, for your future. If the new improved YOU has gotten his stuff together, straightened himself out, and improved his life...who knows? Maybe your w will be interested again in 2-3 YEARS. Then, again, she may have moved on and will no longer be interested in you. You can at least be mature and amicable about co-parenting. Even if you NEVER get back with your wife, at least you will be a better person, better role model, better SO for your next relationship. But, please don't get into one for the next 2-3 years...you have plenty of other work on your plate. You don't need (nor are you anywhere NEAR ready for another relationship).


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Rangers1:
> 
> Good for you for manning-up!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply, that was a bit of what I needed.

1) I've looked into that before on my own and there is something that has excluded her from claiming that. That said, I'd do whatever to fall on the sword to spare them.

2) That's a hard one as "being poor" is something she is deathly afraid of. I'm afraid of BK too. I'm looking into those options though.

3) I was in individual therapy for a long, long time and I did admit in couples therapy that I wasn't honest with them either. I need to start over and rebuild myself there. Be honest and follow through with what the therapist says.

4) I can't think of life without them, and even though I have had that past indiscretion, can't fathom being with anyone else. I simply don't want it. If she were to leave, I couldn't bring myself to do it. This time around though, I really do think that if she says I want out, or I want a divorce, I have to accept that. how does one accept that without looking like they give up or don't care? I truly do care and don't want it, but realize that this is not getting better, it's getting worse for everyone involved. I'm not sure even a strong fight to keep us together is enough anymore.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Even if you file for bankruptcy, I'm sorry to say that you cannot exempt any taxes, student loans and/or child support. In other words, you have to pay those things even if you file for bankruptcy.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Seems like you're still trying to avoid dealing with the fallout of what you've done. Like not telling your wife until you have some kind of "fix" for her situation. Or have you told her already?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Rangers1:
> 
> Good for you for manning-up!
> 
> ...





karole said:


> Even if you file for bankruptcy, I'm sorry to say that you cannot exempt any taxes, student loans and/or child support. In other words, you have to pay those things even if you file for bankruptcy.


I agree and I'm not looking to get out of my responsibility here. Just trying to figure out what my options are.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

You need to tell your wife, and sooner rather than later. If she finds out on her own, the manure that hits the fan will be far stinkier than if you had told her and faced it. 

My husband has overdrawn our bank account before and instead of coming to me to let me know, I find out when the bank sends a letter to the house to notify us. It felt like a slap in the face, and for me it opened up some wounds from my childhood. But we talked about what happened, and how to handle it in the future. Granted your situation isn't simply an overdrawn bank account. 

Have you looked at WHY you don't like facing things? Is there something your wife could do that would make you more comfortable to tell her the truth? I used to get angry whenever my husband messed up something, and he came and told me that it makes him not want to talk to me b/c he felt stupid and like a child. So I changed how I reacted to things. And it helped our marriage. 

I got the impression from one of your posts, that you expect to leave the family unit, either at your discretion or your wives, but to me, that doesn't sound fair. You buried the family, and you get to walk away? Since this is your WIFE, legally, she is on the hook for those tax bills too. 

I think both you and your wife should look into additional streams of revenue. Tackle the tax bill first, but work on 100% transparency regarding money with her. My husband and I have 100% transparency with our finances so everyone knows what is going on and why.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> Seems like you're still trying to avoid dealing with the fallout of what you've done. Like not telling your wife until you have some kind of "fix" for her situation. Or have you told her already?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are right, to a point. I haven't told her but that will have to happen tonight. I need to be honest and forthright and then work on improving things, regardless of whatever happens with us. I'm not going to lie and say that there isn't a part of me that wants to dodge the issue, even for a day. That mindset is always there.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> You need to tell your wife, and sooner rather than later. If she finds out on her own, the manure that hits the fan will be far stinkier than if you had told her and faced it.
> 
> My husband has overdrawn our bank account before and instead of coming to me to let me know, I find out when the bank sends a letter to the house to notify us. It felt like a slap in the face, and for me it opened up some wounds from my childhood. But we talked about what happened, and how to handle it in the future. Granted your situation isn't simply an overdrawn bank account.
> 
> ...


For the record, I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE. I wouldn't walk away. Though if she were to say she has nothing left, what choice do I have? There's a difference there. She's heard me time and time again talk about change and that this or that wouldn't happen again, and things always fall back on old habits. She's tired, depressed and wants more out of life for the kids and herself. I wouldn't walk away from them though, ever.



> Have you looked at WHY you don't like facing things? Is there something your wife could do that would make you more comfortable to tell her the truth? I used to get angry whenever my husband messed up something, and he came and told me that it makes him not want to talk to me b/c he felt stupid and like a child. So I changed how I reacted to things. And it helped our marriage.


That's come up in therapy and we've traced it back to trying to stay out of trouble/keeping the peace in a very tension filled household while growing up. Our therapist believes that I had poor models on how to handle situations, anger bordering on verbal abuse, etc... She feels that somewhere early on I learned to hide, compartmentalize and lie to stay out of trouble. She also feels that I was literally handed the keys to the kingdom (nest egg... which to no surprise is gone) without any teaching of responsible financial practices. I was 16/17 at the time. So yeah it's been brought up.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> You need to tell your wife, and sooner rather than later. If she finds out on her own, the manure that hits the fan will be far stinkier than if you had told her and faced it.
> 
> My husband has overdrawn our bank account before and instead of coming to me to let me know, I find out when the bank sends a letter to the house to notify us. It felt like a slap in the face, and for me it opened up some wounds from my childhood. But we talked about what happened, and how to handle it in the future. Granted your situation isn't simply an overdrawn bank account.
> 
> ...





Rangers1 said:


> For the record, I DO NOT WANT TO LEAVE. I wouldn't walk away. Though if she were to say she has nothing left, what choice do I have? There's a difference there. She's heard me time and time again talk about change and that this or that wouldn't happen again, and things always fall back on old habits. She's tired, depressed and wants more out of life for the kids and herself. I wouldn't walk away from them though, ever.
> 
> 
> 
> That's come up in therapy and we've traced it back to trying to stay out of trouble/keeping the peace in a very tension filled household while growing up. Our therapist believes that I had poor models on how to handle situations, anger bordering on verbal abuse, etc... She feels that somewhere early on I learned to hide, compartmentalize and lie to stay out of trouble. She also feels that I was literally handed the keys to the kingdom (nest egg... which to no surprise is gone) without any teaching of responsible financial practices. I was 16/17 at the time. So yeah it's been brought up.


As far as why with my wife, I think that there are similarities between your situation and mine. She's very much an anxious person and has a temper (as do I), and I do fear her reactions.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

I'll keep posting and replying here and there for a while tonight... but when my wife comes home from work obviously the last place I will be is online. I'll update tomorrow about what happens tonight.

Thanks for the advice.
J


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Rangers1 said:


> You are right, to a point. I haven't told her but that will have to happen tonight. I need to be honest and forthright and then work on improving things, regardless of whatever happens with us. I'm not going to lie and say that there isn't a part of me that wants to dodge the issue, even for a day. That mindset is always there.



Also, the only fix that I am working on is trying to show the state tax department that I am the sole person that should be held accountable and not my wife. Though joint return, I was not honest with her and she was unaware of me not following through with things, etc... Whether it falls under innocent spouse, or simply something on record, I'm willing to take full accountability with the mess I've created, and to work my ass off to try and get her out of it. And yes, this should never have happened in the first place.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Is there anyone who has been in something similar and can relate their experience...?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Some of the "Innocent Spouse" rules changed in May 2013. That is why I recommend you contact IRS directly YOURSELF (don't rely on some 'tax guy' from your state...go to the source. Email, call, chat, whatever and get the REAL and CORRECT answer from them. If it doesn't help your wife, you're no worse off than you are now wondering whether she can be sheltered from this).

Good luck to you and your family! Hang in there...you didn't screw it up in A YEAR and you won't be able to FIX it in A YEAR.

Hang in for the long-haul...your family is WORTH it!


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Some of the "Innocent Spouse" rules changed in May 2013. That is why I recommend you contact IRS directly YOURSELF (don't rely on some 'tax guy' from your state...go to the source. Email, call, chat, whatever and get the REAL and CORRECT answer from them. If it doesn't help your wife, you're no worse off than you are now wondering whether she can be sheltered from this).
> 
> Good luck to you and your family! Hang in there...you didn't screw it up in A YEAR and you won't be able to FIX it in A YEAR.
> 
> Hang in for the long-haul...your family is WORTH it!


Thanks! They absolutely are! I wish I felt the same about me, and I wish that my wife felt the same, but I have let her down so many times.

By state tax guy I mean the division of taxation rep assigned to my case. The one who sent everything to the court etc... 

Thanks again for the encouragement!


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Sadly I could not come up with the balls to do it tonight. She did find a tab on my phone browser for bank levies, so I think she suspects something... I need to man up and do it. This is ridiculous. I'll tell her tomorrow, even if it is my birthday. Why am I so god damn afraid of everything?


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

One thing that I concluded overnight is that the best way for me to do this is to put it all on paper, in a letter, given to her in person. I'm really not the best in conversation and especially if we are arguing or it is something difficult for me to talk about. This will help me to organize and fully put down everything. I'll ask her to read it and then we can talk. I also have other people that I need to apologize to and like I said in my first post, I've written about 7 letters that I've saved explaining and apologizing to people. Family members who I will have let down, etc... Making sure they know that I am the one who is at fault here, and that my wife and kids will need their support. I've essentially realized and accepted that most likely every relationship that I have (I don't have any friends to speak of) will be harmed beyond repair. That's the price I have to pay for my actions. As someone else said, take your lumps. I will.

Today I turn 37, and I need to completely change the person I have been for the last 37 years. Today has to be a new day, a new start.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I feel for you Rangers!

I can easily say from where I stand to just rip of the band-aid (it'll hurt less)....but it isn't that easy...

...I truly wish you the best in taking this big step toward integrity.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> I feel for you Rangers!
> 
> I can easily say from where I stand to just rip of the band-aid (it'll hurt less)....but it isn't that easy...
> 
> ...I truly wish you the best in taking this big step toward integrity.


Thanks,

I'm not even halfway through my letter and its brutal. I'm heartbroken, angry, ashamed... fill in the blank, about what I've done. 

This also affects other people, so I've actually sent a message to my cousin who is like a sister to me, and knows of my past, and explained it to her... no response as of yet. I shouldn't be surprised, I did awful things.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

It saddens me to see that you didn't talk to your wife last night. I genuinely hope that her reaction will not be as bad as you think it will be. Yes she will be hurt. Yes, she will by angry. But I truly hope that you both can sit down and hash things out so you can come together and work together to resolve the situation. 

Since you're writing a letter. I would like to encourage you to re-read it after you've set it aside for a few hours. Check for "i language" so it doesn't sound defensive or critical. I say this b/c my mother use to write me pages and pages and pages of letters about how *I* was the horrible person/daughter and instead of trying to work towards a goal, it drove us apart. BUT that is just my own history, and she was very confrontational in her letters. Which I don't think you will be, but it's always good to re-read something. 

Best wishes.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> It saddens me to see that you didn't talk to your wife last night. I genuinely hope that her reaction will not be as bad as you think it will be. Yes she will be hurt. Yes, she will by angry. But I truly hope that you both can sit down and hash things out so you can come together and work together to resolve the situation.
> 
> Since you're writing a letter. I would like to encourage you to re-read it after you've set it aside for a few hours. Check for "i language" so it doesn't sound defensive or critical. I say this b/c my mother use to write me pages and pages and pages of letters about how *I* was the horrible person/daughter and instead of trying to work towards a goal, it drove us apart. BUT that is just my own history, and she was very confrontational in her letters. Which I don't think you will be, but it's always good to re-read something.
> 
> Best wishes.


She started to inquire from work and my let's talk later only made her more anxious, and then she got on the phone and demanded to know what was happening, after all I've put her through. I had 5 minutes before students arrived and she is at work, so it was not good. I regret not talking last night cause I lied and she pointed that out numerous times. My letter isn't defensive, I have nothing to defend, and is not critical of anyone other than myself. She said she doesn't want to read a letter that i'm her husband and should just tell her. 

I feel awful.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Rangers1 said:


> She started to inquire from work and my let's talk later only made her more anxious, and then she got on the phone and demanded to know what was happening, after all I've put her through. I had 5 minutes before students arrived and she is at work, so it was not good. I regret not talking last night cause I lied and she pointed that out numerous times. My letter isn't defensive, I have nothing to defend, and is not critical of anyone other than myself. She said she doesn't want to read a letter that i'm her husband and should just tell her.
> 
> I feel awful.


Write the letter. Than READ the letter to her. 

I would preface the letter with something like "It's very hard for me to say this out loud. I would really appreciate if I can get through my whole side before we talk about it...." 

I really hope your wife can bide her time and bite her tongue until you can get everything off your chest. 

When I fight with my husband, the hardest part is bridging that physical space between us, and it takes courage to step forward and take your partners hand after a fight. IDK much about your wife, but maybe that solidifying motion would be welcomed after the talk tonight. 

Since she is already wound up and worrying, I hope you can at least tell her what it is concerning to ease some fears. Like, "I need to talk to you about our finances. I'm feeling -------. I'm sorry for springing this on you, but I cannot talk at this exact moment. When I get home @ -----, can we discuss this?"


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

I commend your vulnerability Rangers1...

Dr. Brene Brown stated the following during a TedTalk about vulnerability:

"Vulnerability is absolutely at the core of fear and anxiety and shame and very difficult emotions that we all experience. But vulnerability is also the birthplace of joy, of love, of belonging, of creativity, of faith.

My hope for you and your wife is that you both can meet in that place of vulnerability within your marriage where you will get to experience the latter.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> Write the letter. Than READ the letter to her.
> 
> I would preface the letter with something like "It's very hard for me to say this out loud. I would really appreciate if I can get through my whole side before we talk about it...."
> 
> ...


Hi

That's how I started the letter actually. We've already talked on the phone and it did not go well at all. She demanded to know what was going on and there was a short amount of time to talk. She did not want to wait and obviously was extremely angry. She brought up that I lied last night when I said all was ok (I hadn't worked up the nerve to talk, cowardly). So now this is much worse than I thought.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Rangers1 said:


> Hi
> 
> That's how I started the letter actually. We've already talked on the phone and it did not go well at all. She demanded to know what was going on and there was a short amount of time to talk. She did not want to wait and obviously was extremely angry. She brought up that I lied last night when I said all was ok (I hadn't worked up the nerve to talk, cowardly). So now this is much worse than I thought.


Well, if my husband was anxious, and I found concerning things on his computer AND my bank accounts were frozen, then my DH hemmed and hawed about it without talking to me, i would be upset to. 

She's already prepared for the worse. You have nothing to lose. Tonight you HAVE to talk to her. 

Stop building up the dread in your head.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> Well, if my husband was anxious, and I found concerning things on his computer AND my bank accounts were frozen, then my DH hemmed and hawed about it without talking to me, i would be upset to.
> 
> She's already prepared for the worse. You have nothing to lose. Tonight you HAVE to talk to her.
> 
> Stop building up the dread in your head.


Well it's going to be really bad, and the fallout from others is already starting. I certainly agree that she should be upset and it's not my place to say she's too upset or anything. Tonight is the talk, as she already knows some simply by phone. Whether she wants to hear much of what I have to say is a different story. That's another one of my habits, building up the dread in my head, however this time it's not without reason. 

It kills me to pick my kids up from school, where they've made me bday cards and had the other kids in the class sing happy birthday to me, and know what i've done to my family. My wife has told her mom, who was supposed to come over for birthday dinner/cake, and now isn't. 

Though not there (yet, if she leaves I will be), how does one come back from hitting rock bottom? How do I win my wife and family back after this tonight and whatever comes of it?


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You need to start making changes to start addressing your issues. Not just for your family, but for you. Financial counseling and individual counseling would be good starting points. 

You need to make damn sure there's no trickle truth going on. Expose your transgressions fully and completely. Anything that comes out after your initial confession will be much much worse. 

You need to understand why you did what you did. Not just why you lied to her, but also understand how you got into the financial situation where you felt you had to lie. And then you need to demonstrate that you have a plan to never be there again. 

The first and last ones are "works in progress". You may not even get to explain them to her tonight. And actually, your changes will go much further if you don't spell out what you're going to do, but if you demonstrate through your future actions that you've MADE changes. 

Good luck

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> You need to start making changes to start addressing your issues. Not just for your family, but for you. Financial counseling and individual counseling would be good starting points.
> 
> You need to make damn sure there's no trickle truth going on. Expose your transgressions fully and completely. Anything that comes out after your initial confession will be much much worse.
> 
> ...


Thanks,

I completely agree. Though I'm pretty certain this will be the last straw, if given the opportunity I absolutely will work with someone on budgeting and finance and we will work together. No trickle truth either. I laid it all out. I also am going to restart individual therapy and not LIE to them either, which I have done in the past. One way to make sure that happens is to allow both my ind therapist and marriage therapist to communicate. I'll allow full disclosure between the two, if possible. I'll do anything. It just may be too much and too late. I'll find out soon enough.

Thanks for the reply.

J


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Checking in to see how the talk went.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> Checking in to see how the talk went.


Not good at all. A lot of if I cared for my family I would not have done this, I promised not do this again, I lied to everyone. I stole from my kids accounts and have fallen behind in paying their nursery school tuition, and instead of trying to fix things I wrote letters. I'm the most selfish person she knows and only am concerned about myself. I can't dispute that as I said many of these decisions were anxiety ridden, impulsive band aids to prevent an issue at that moment. I was protecting myself. 

She didn't read the letter at all. Didn't want any part of it. Don't blame her.

Anyways, she stated that I must come clean about everything to the one person who may financially be able to help, but it will be on me to repay her. I'm compiling a tally of all the mishandling of finances I've done and have to call tomorrow. If this doesn't work the family is screwed. If it does, then I still have to repay what I took from my wife and as she stated, she is done and wants to separate. The sooner the better.

She wore herself out and is now asleep, and I'm just here. She said she couldn't shed a tear, that she wasn't shocked anymore because she expected it at some point. Also doesn't believe me that I haven't cheated on her (I haven't). Things will still get worse from here between us as she won't even talk to me. She just wants to know if I'm moving money between accounts (including taking from hers) and paying some bills and not others, falling behind a bit on the mortgage and the tax issues, where is the money. I try and explain that everyday expenses add up, groceries, shopping, everything. 

I will do what I have to do to try and repair the damage I've done, but I've destroyed this family (her words). I'll be spending a lot of time trying to figure out what to do. Other than that I'm certain that we are not legally separated, but she's checked out.

Thank you for wanting to check in.... any advice appreciated


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

The good news, imo, is that you took a huge step and came clean. I think FULL transparency on your behalf is in order. I assume she wants you to borrow money from a friend or family member when you said "she stated that I must come clean about everything to the one person who may financially be able to help, but it will be on me to repay her..." 

I'm sorry she has checked out. I think at this point, it will be in your best interest to start IC, and pull yourself up. Don't worry about her, since she is checked out, at the moment. Work on you. Work on getting the family back on track. Work on paying her back (idk what the means, to be honest, since in my marriage, our finances are combined). I wouldn't even know how to tally that up. 

In some ways, I understand what she is feeling. My father used to steal money out of his children's piggy banks, and my mom used to steal money out of my savings account when I was a minor. There is a sense of betrayal and in a way, a violation. 

I feel like to her words are cheap, she's heard all the reasons, excuses, and promises. You will need to ACT. Hold up your words with actions. Expect NOTHING from her. Work on yourself. 

At least for tonight, take a deep breath. Go outside (unless it's crazy cold!!) and just sit and be still. Let the worry, and anxiety go for tonight. Try to get some sleep. Tomorrow is a new day.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> The good news, imo, is that you took a huge step and came clean. I think FULL transparency on your behalf is in order. I assume she wants you to borrow money from a friend or family member when you said "she stated that I must come clean about everything to the one person who may financially be able to help, but it will be on me to repay her..."
> 
> I'm sorry she has checked out. I think at this point, it will be in your best interest to start IC, and pull yourself up. Don't worry about her, since she is checked out, at the moment. Work on you. Work on getting the family back on track. Work on paying her back (idk what the means, to be honest, since in my marriage, our finances are combined). I wouldn't even know how to tally that up.
> 
> ...


Thank you... I needed that. You are correct that words are cheap and I need to ACT and not just say I'll act. 

I'll post again tomorrow after everyone gets ready for work. I'm sure this will come up again.

Thanks again.

J


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Morning update...

Not much conversation. Have to make the phone call this morning to her Aunt, confessing and begging for financial assistance to remedy the really big problems I've caused. If that doesn't work than neither one of us knows what to do. On the way out the door this am she did say how nice it is for me to drive her fathers (deceased) car while I've been stealing the money. She doesn't (with reason) believe a word I say and she doesn't view this as taking responsibility or manning up. That was what should have happened at the beginning. This is me just looking out for myself. I know that's not the case, but have no credibility. 

J


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Rangers1-

Your wife is hurt...and reactive...

Allow her to have...and express her feelings...

Look at it this way...You've been aware of this financial baggage and all the stuff that comes with it (deceit, shame, fear, etc.) Picture all of these emotions as if they each were a piece of luggage....

...with your confession, you've been essentially transferred each piece of luggage (the fear, the shame, the lies) to her...so right now she's feeling heavy with this stuff...

Give her the chance to process this stuff...don't let her reaction stop you from doing what you need to do for yourself and your integrity...

Continue to apologize, but more importantly, continue to take action to have a plan to rebuild...it is in the action that she will have confidence in change.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> Rangers1-
> 
> Your wife is hurt...and reactive...
> 
> ...


I think she's processed enough and she is not taking my crap and so is everyone else. The work I'm doing to fix these things so far have not been met with anything other than me not fixing things and not making the situation better. 

My apologizing means nothing, as I've apologized so many times before. She either ignores it, says no you're not, you are only sorry you got caught, or you shouldn't have done it in the first place. I'm abhorred by my actions, and am trying to act as normal as possible, but even iota of me feeling bad etc... is not acceptable as I put us here. For example, yesterday I came home and was processing this stuff, stressed and her mom called and wished me a happy birthday. My wife told me that I sounded like the wounded warrior and acting as if it is all about me. I am lost here and floundering.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> Rangers1-
> 
> Your wife is hurt...and reactive...
> 
> ...


At least we had a phone conversation that was productive for a bit before she got angry and hung up. I'd say it was a positive step, she is texting me and discussing things with me.


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

You were lost and floundering before you informed your wife and others of the exact nature of the situation... now your floundering is being done publicly. You know longer have the protection of the facade you built... you need to stop lamenting this...

If you feel apologies aren't worth it...then no words is the best...because your word does mean nothing right now to those you have hurt... What they thought they had confidence in (your words) does not exist right now (and rightly so)...

If you truly want to rebuild integrity, you need to work hard to think beyond yourself...I understand you feel like crap... but you really need to work hard at keeping that at bay in front of your wife and the others you have offended.

Vent here to express your woundedness. It has only been a day since your wife was truly aware of this (she's shell shocked)...you need to have empathy and compassion for that.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

cons said:


> If you feel apologies aren't worth it...then no words is the best...because your word does mean nothing right now to those you have hurt... What they thought they had confidence in (your words) does not exist right now (and rightly so)...


:iagree:

Yep. If she doesn't believe your apologies. STOP SAYING THEM for the time being. Repeating how sorry you are isn't going to fix the problem, and if I were in her shoes, it would just aggravate me. 



> It has only been a day since your wife was truly aware of this (she's shell shocked)...you need to have empathy and compassion for that.


:iagree: Yep. No matter how well you THINK she has processed this, she hasn't. And all those feelings you have? She now has them too! Stop wringing your hands and grab a shovel. The only way to get out of this mess, is to start at the bottom and work your way up. Before you know it, the worst will be behind you. you'll see the sun shining, and life can move on. 

While I don't like how your wife is wording some comments, she has every right to be angry. When this storm passes, if you two choose to stay together. You WILL NEED counseling, both IC and MC. You both need to learn how to communicate with each other without judgement and derision.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Yep. If she doesn't believe your apologies. STOP SAYING THEM for the time being. Repeating how sorry you are isn't going to fix the problem, and if I were in her shoes, it would just aggravate me.
> 
> ...


Thanks. I am fine with what she is saying. I've put her through HELL for years. She has every right to be angry and say what she needs to say. I will say this, as we are working some things out and getting answers and information, we are communicating openly. The tough call to the relative is next. They live in Florida and my wife and BIL are like their kids. This will break their heart. I am trying to prepare a spreadsheet and promissary note for them in case they agree. Naturally, they will be visiting next weekend as well.

As far as counseling, I was in IC and we do see a MC, though not for a while due to her schedule change. I am looking into a new IC, will restart MC, but I don't know that she'd go to IC and I certainly am in no position to say go. 

Even though it will be a big financial burden to have to pay this family member back, it will ease the debts I've incurred and to some extent start fresh. Even if she still wants to separate, at least some of these debts will be resolved. I will have to take on extra work and do more, but I have to do what I have to do.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> You were lost and floundering before you informed your wife and others of the exact nature of the situation... now your floundering is being done publicly. You know longer have the protection of the facade you built... you need to stop lamenting this...
> 
> If you feel apologies aren't worth it...then no words is the best...because your word does mean nothing right now to those you have hurt... What they thought they had confidence in (your words) does not exist right now (and rightly so)...
> 
> ...


I agree. I'm an over apologizer and am not doing that, because it's not what she needs and has no meaning behind it for her. I wear my heart on my sleeve but I see I need to act differently, as you said, to avoid offending further.

How can you show empathy and compassion when they think it's BS? I do, and the response is if you did or had any you wouldn't do this....

If you watch Vanderpump Rules on Bravo I've been likened to Jax...


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

I hope the call to the Aunt goes well. 

At some point, I think you will need to stand up for yourself. I for one, do not like having my failures rubbed in my face. So if my spouse OR her family or MY family for that matter kept rubbing a screw-up in my face, I would at some point tell them enough is enough. Yes. You screwed up. Yes. You hurt your wife and your family. BUT they don't need to hold it over your head and taunt you with how big you screwed up. 

My mom emotionally abused me as a kid, and when I came to my relationship with my now-husband, I carried those emotional scars and baggage. I didn't know how to talk to someone. If my DH didn't do as I thought he should have, I would go off on him and complain about how HE NEVER DOES ANYTHING RIGHT. I would storm off in a huff, convinced I was in the right. 

I wasn't. 

Your wife isn't either. 

And all I was doing by belittling him, and nagging him, and harassing him, was making him shut down and tune me out. He didn't respond well to those things, but that is all I knew. And I didn't SEE how it affected him until it came up in counseling. 

F-ups happen. Oh if I told you how many times I've messed up. But DH and I have learn to let it go and move past the hurt and work towards the future and a solution. 

What I'm getting at is both you and your wife need to learn to forgive yourselves and each other. Doesn't mean you have to forget about what happened. Doesn't mean you'll let whatever happened get repeated. But you both need to learn how to forgive and how to communicate.

The closest example I can offer that is comparable to your situation happened right after my husband and I married. Before marriage, my husband was very secretive about his money and his accounts. I took care of the house, so on pay day I would tally up the bills, split them in half and he would write me a check for his half of the bills. I was told before the wedding that he had $24,000 in student loans. Ok. Great. Not ideal. But we can work around that. 6 months after we got married, we tried to buy a house. Our application was denied because our debt-to-income ratio was too high. They mailed me copies of our credit reports. After I added up the student loans, it turned out that he had taken out nearly $20,000 in loans AFTER we were married and didn't even think to mention it to me. I was so angry. I felt like everything I dreamed about was going to go down the drain. We were already poor to begin with, how in the world would we pay this? 

Very carefully. LOL!!!!!!! 

We worked out a budget, and we sacrificed ALL fat in our budget. There wasn't room for that. And we made it work. We're still paying down his student loans, only 8 more years to go! We managed to scrap together enough money to buy a house. 

In the end, since I was willing to forgive him and work on the present, instead of staying butthurt over the past, I didn't have to lose my dreams of owning my own home. It took longer. And it was a struggle, but we did it. 

I know you can do it too.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Ok so I have all my info ready... going to make the call in the next bit... I feel incredibly anxious, embarrassed and ashamed. I'm about to ruin another relationship.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

No offense, but you ruined many of the relationships long ago. The other people just didn't know about it till now. 

Good luck with your call. I do hope you can work things out, with everyone. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Rangers1 said:


> Ok so I have all my info ready... going to make the call in the next bit... I feel incredibly anxious, embarrassed and ashamed. I'm about to ruin another relationship.


Checking in. How did the call go?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Was it a matter of living beyond your means (trying to keep up with the Jones'?). In other words, just where did all the money go?


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Was it a matter of living beyond your means (trying to keep up with the Jones'?). In other words, just where did all the money go?


My understanding of the situation is that it is from back taxes or something similar.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

MysticSoul said:


> My understanding of the situation is that it is from back taxes or something similar.


I think he's been evasive on where the money went too. He mentions the money shuffle first, and the back taxes after. Whether the evasion is deliberate or not, who knows. But it's the reason I recommended financial counseling, to avoid a repeat. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> I think he's been evasive on where the money went too. He mentions the money shuffle first, and the back taxes after. Whether the evasion is deliberate or not, who knows. But it's the reason I recommended financial counseling, to avoid a repeat.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





MysticSoul said:


> My understanding of the situation is that it is from back taxes or something similar.





Blondilocks said:


> Was it a matter of living beyond your means (trying to keep up with the Jones'?). In other words, just where did all the money go?





MysticSoul said:


> Checking in. How did the call go?


It was rough, and I confessed everything to them, even the EA that I have had previously.

They said money isn't important but what is is family, and they would help us so that we can work on us and fix things. I broke down, to be honest. Of course they are very angry with me and I betrayed them horribly, and will repay them (which they said is for a later time, focus on getting things straight right now) no matter what happens with my marriage (separation, divorce).

They are wiring a significant amount to take care of the taxes, mortgage past due and late nursery school balance. I will be finding a good IC and seeing our MC. Also we are going to see someone about finances. I'll write more later... classes coming in soon.

** Sorry I'm not good with some of these forum quote things....

Back taxes and levies were the immeadiate crisis point, but mishandling funds and moving things around because of not keeping track of spending, not speaking up about where we were financially and not paying things on time were the ultimate factors. I'd take from one to cover another account, and never repay. I wasn't involved in anything like drugs, alcohol, gambling or any other thing like that. Just financial irresponsibility. Eating out a lot, spending a lot at the grocery store, overspending, etc... 

Thanks for the concern and support.

J


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Glad everything is out in the open. Glad you're looking at IC, MC and Financial Counseling. 

When you're getting back on your feet, you might consider using some accounting software on your computer to help you keep track of bills, funds, etc. I use Quicken and love it! 

I also include my DH when doing the budget. I'll do all the hard work of figuring out what is going where and when, but at the end, I sit him down and explain what is being paid and if I cannot afford to put money somewhere it SHOULD be going, I tell him that too. Most of the time, we just sacrifice "food money" for bills. So if we're a little tight on grocery store money, we work extra hard on squeezing every dime out of that food. 

Being tight financially makes us creative.  

That can be something you and your wife can work together on. It'll be a good action for your wife to witness. Total transparency, and commitment to NEVER let this happen again. 

Have a great day @ work. Happy Friday!!!


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> I hope the call to the Aunt goes well.
> 
> At some point, I think you will need to stand up for yourself. I for one, do not like having my failures rubbed in my face. So if my spouse OR her family or MY family for that matter kept rubbing a screw-up in my face, I would at some point tell them enough is enough. Yes. You screwed up. Yes. You hurt your wife and your family. BUT they don't need to hold it over your head and taunt you with how big you screwed up.
> 
> ...


She's hurt and so I expect very much the anger. Considering past things that even though we've discussed in MC, she's not been able to move on (for lack of a better phrase at the moment). There's a lot of components to this, and being honest, transparent and not afraid of working together are some of them. I have my own deep seeded feelings and issues with money that I've also not been able to let go of, and that is a burden I have struggled with. Being a good husband, father and transparent with things are all areas I either need to improve or drastically improve, and I feel like since coming clean I have. 

She is hurt as is everyone else I know that knows. I've set our family back and though things we had in place or planned to do, we cannot because it was built upon a financial house of cards by me. She realizes she has a role too, she can emotionally spend and shop very easily, so it's something we can work on, together.

I haven't been apologizing besides what I did initially, simply because I've overused that word. inundating her with apologies right now is not going to help. I'm trying to give her time and space, but talk about things and be honest with her. Our conversations range from the obvious anger/hurt/despair to actually thinking things out and getting things in order. That's good.

I would not be surprised, even as things improve, that at a certain point when she is able, that she separates from me. I think she'd do it now if the resources were there for her to be able to. I know I've pushed her well beyond what many others in these forums have put up with. 

J


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Rangers1-

Without going into my own story...my husband struggles with sexual addiction...his stuff has a long history....so I've "put up with" a lot...

...don't lose heart...it can drive you into this self-protective mode that can come across to your wife as indifference or just plain giving up.

Your mindset needs to be making amends...regardless of the outcome of your marriage...you need to show not only your wife, but yourself, that you have the integrity to overcome your mistakes.

My husband has not been perfect...his mistakes can and have hurt me deeply...but what I see is a man who genuinely wants to do the next right thing...

..I hear a similar man in your posts...you are taking some great steps...Hang in there!


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Apologize and be calm. Part of life is adversity. (when Adam said he didn't want the easy life and chose the challenges) 

Let her yell and complain. She s entitled.

Get some type of counselor and work on this . 

Tell her you are committed to working with her and dealing with the financial issues. The state will probably accept some type of repayment plan. 

Work hard to do better but don't beat yourself up over what cannot be changed.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

cons said:


> Rangers1-
> 
> Without going into my own story...my husband struggles with sexual addiction...his stuff has a long history....so I've "put up with" a lot...
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for sharing at least a little bit of your story... I'm working at it, and there is a lot to overcome. Right now there is a lot of anger there obviously, but a deep deep sense of depression and "this isn't where I imagined my life" on her part, and mine as well. She really is struggling, and though I know I can't be perfect in everything I do, tiny things such as where one of our kids shirts was put, gets her angry. I'm not complaining, rather just stating. I understand the betrayal I did and the anger, resentment and depression. I am taking steps but everyday continue to do more and more.

Thanks for your support!
J


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Bobby5000 said:


> Apologize and be calm. Part of life is adversity. (when Adam said he didn't want the easy life and chose the challenges)
> 
> Let her yell and complain. She s entitled.
> 
> ...


Thanks! I certainly do hear her out and let her do that, I agree she is entitled. She's heard the committment talk before and so she doesn't believe me. She doesn't trust me one bit. I wouldn't either. I have to act rather than talk, and act correctly.

I'm looking for a financial planner. The taxes are being paid in full today because of the assistance of a family member. The slate with the state of NJ is wiped clean as of today, though it will be on our credit report for 7 years. As far as IRS, I am on a repayment plan and will be due a refund which will be applied towards my balance. It's still a lot but as long as I pay them and keep it going it will be ok.

Honestly, it is hard not to beat myself up. I've caused so much hurt in different ways over the years. Seeing her so down, seeing the tension possibly causing our kids to behave not quite up to expectations, letting family down... It's just hard. I am committed to the right way and fixing this. I know my wife is terribly depresssed and doesn't see how things will ever improve, but they have to. There's no option but up from here. Unless she decides to leave me (which I would understand...), things will be tough for a while but I will work my ass off to get things normalized and so that we can not only live comfortably, but do the things in life that we wanted to do and be in control of our money.

Thanks for the advice!
J


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So you still haven't commented on where the money issues came from. For the vast majority of working people, more taxes are deducted from their paychecks than they owe, and they happily get a refund every year. Have you figured out what went wrong in your situation so you can avoid it in the future?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

How did you rack up the debt to begin with? Lack of work or extra curriculars?


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> So you still haven't commented on where the money issues came from. For the vast majority of working people, more taxes are deducted from their paychecks than they owe, and they happily get a refund every year. Have you figured out what went wrong in your situation so you can avoid it in the future?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sure:

1) My mothers family has a real estate business which I am a % owner of. Profits vary from year to year. 2012 was good profit wise and very bad tax wise. My wife works in NYC and we live in NJ, so we have to adjust her taxes withheld so that some carry over to NJ. I was previously told by former accountant that I did not need to do this. 2013 was poor profit wise for the company and thus our taxes are essentially normal. Plus in 2012 I cashed out my pension, adding 20k onto gross income. Plus paying for a childcare provider back then too (in house as an employee), which is not occurring anymore.

2) Not keeping track of things, not communicating, eating out a lot or ordering, large grocery bills. A general lack of budgeting.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

sinnister said:


> How did you rack up the debt to begin with? Lack of work or extra curriculars?


I have been unemployed the 2 of the 3 past summers due to school layoffs, so I was on unemployment. That is not an excuse though as budgeting would have resolved and prevented problems. The debt was racked up due to not paying things at the time (taxes, other bills), eating out/ordering, impulse buying (nothing large at all, clothes and stuff, but it adds up) and also just a lack of budgeting and communicating with one another. 

There was nothing like gambling, drugs, alcohol or anything like that going on.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Rangers1 said:


> Sure:
> 
> 1) My mothers family has a real estate business which I am a % owner of. Profits vary from year to year. 2012 was good profit wise and very bad tax wise. My wife works in NYC and we live in NJ, so we have to adjust her taxes withheld so that some carry over to NJ. I was previously told by former accountant that I did not need to do this. 2013 was poor profit wise for the company and thus our taxes are essentially normal. Plus in 2012 I cashed out my pension, adding 20k onto gross income. Plus paying for a childcare provider back then too (in house as an employee), which is not occurring anymore.
> 
> 2) Not keeping track of things, not communicating, eating out a lot or ordering, large grocery bills. A general lack of budgeting.


I've had money issues my whole life. As I said I was given the keys to a large savings account as a teen, and not encouraged to work and not shown how to be financially responsible. Even as an adult I continued to be financially irresponsible when again given access to an even larger amount of stocks, bonds, etc... left for me. Yes more than half went for things like down payment on our first home, the engagement ring, we paid for our wedding too (kept it elegant but not as $$ as a dinner... we did brunch to keep cost down). But I also did then as I just did, withdrew money, sold stocks, etc... to keep a cushion in the checking so that we didn't get low. I never repaid what I took out from myself and drained it all.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Some days, it is a blessing to be poor. Because you learn these life lessons early on. 

Going from spending whatever you wanted to sticking to a strict budget is going to be HARD. You will need to anticipate that. 

When you go to your financial counselor, be sure to bring with you a list of "financial goals" with time frames. So that you can set up your bank to automatically move x amount to savings so you can reach your goals. 

Since your spending is so out of control, it might be best if you budget for all your bills, set aside a reasonable amount for food and transportation. Give yourself and your wife an "allowance" and whatever is left goes straight to savings/repaying people. 

Try to use the mentality of when you're out of money, it's gone. There is no "let me transfer some from here" or "let me put that on the credit card."


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> Some days, it is a blessing to be poor. Because you learn these life lessons early on.
> 
> Going from spending whatever you wanted to sticking to a strict budget is going to be HARD. You will need to anticipate that.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree. It has been hard already (returned lots of things, including my valentines gift to my wife and she returned something she purchased with a gift card from former coworkers). The anger is very very much there and I can say that I am trying. I've set up Mint.com and actually am loading everything in. There are things we've decided to forego where in the past we've just done them... The hardest part is obviously on my wife, who this is all new and a shock to. I'm rereading Gerald Mundis' book and also starting a debt snowball for CC/Loans.

It will be an uphill battle for some time.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you know how to eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Every time you take a bite out of the debt, smile and pat yourself on the back. You will feel good about yourself and motivated to keep going.
Good luck!


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> Do you know how to eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Every time you take a bite out of the debt, smile and pat yourself on the back. You will feel good about yourself and motivated to keep going.
> Good luck!


Great analogy. One of the more difficult parts is resolving things and also trying to keep my marriage together. Her major worry (besides the anger, betrayal, lack of trust) is that we will be poor and not be able to do the things in life that we want (or need, like home repairs, etc.) to do. She didn't realize there was this mountain of debt AND that I was taking money from places it shouldn't have been taken from. 

I will say this, my anxiety in letting this come out and talk about it, and being able to talk about it with her, has decreased. I don't wake up and go to bed every day in a panic. Though I may have ruined my marriage and caused financial destruction, having the weight of knowledge, those secrets, off my shoulders and in the open, is a relief. I was killing myself with the stress. Unfortunately there are other stresses now, and I've certainly increased hers. I don't know if that is selfish to think that, but I feel like I am functioning normally instead of under constant threat.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Hi all, continuing to work on my stuff and be responsible in my finances and repair my marriage.

One of the things that I ended up doing from all this was checking my credit (yeah... poor) and noticed that I was hit up again on 2 instances of identity fraud. Someone had stolen my checking account # and wrote fraudulent checks last summer, and also stole my SS # and opened up some lines of credit in September. I had things in place but they had tried in January to take a loan with my bank which I am already a customer, so it never hit the detection system. 

Suffice to say I'm having this investigated and added to my police report as it appears to be the same individual. Now that I'm up to date on the mortgage, going to be responsible in paying down debt (snowball), not taking on more debt and paying on time, the credit rating should shoot up to where it was a year ago.


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

Consider freezing your credit, or putting a fraud alert on file with the three credit reporting agencies.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You DID write these people letters, right? (real letters, on paper, which you made copies of) That's how you get those things off our credit report. One bite at a time.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

turnera said:


> You DID write these people letters, right? (real letters, on paper, which you made copies of) That's how you get those things off our credit report. One bite at a time.


I have disputed these with the credit agencies and they are working on it. I did put a freeze on as well. Yes I have letters going out today to transunion and equifax (experian is with whom I filed dispute with initially) and adding any and all information acquired to my police investigation from the fall.

Taking it one bite at a time... things have been rough lately though with our relationship stagnating, kids being sick, a car is down for probably some very $$ repairs... Very stressful. That said, the assistance that my wife's Aunt and Uncle provided has helped pay off 2 of the 3 things that were far behind or being levied. Just waiting for a transfer to go through and cut a check for my kids school. 

One day at a time.

J


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I have a friend who buys stuff at garage sales and sells them for a small profit on eBay. She makes a living at it. There's also bookoo.com if you have a local one where you can sell stuff locally. Every $20 you make will help with both debt and setting up an emergency fund (vital!). Also, if either of you is handy in things like writing, computer stuff, art, etc. - all kinds of things - you can go to places like guru.com and big on projects that you can complete and turn in electronically. I've made thousands of dollars on guru.com.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Just curious about what you mean by "cut a check" for you children's school. Are they in private school?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MysticSoul (Mar 3, 2014)

If the car repairs are too much financially, at this junction, consider sharing a car with your wife. My car broke down (needs at $2,000 repair) and we don't have it handy at the moment. So we've been sharing a car for over a year now. It takes some finesse, and compromise, but you CAN make it work. Or whoever lives/works closest to public transportation, can rely on buses and trolleys to get to and from work.  

Your doing great! One step at a time.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

turnera said:


> I have a friend who buys stuff at garage sales and sells them for a small profit on eBay. She makes a living at it. There's also bookoo.com if you have a local one where you can sell stuff locally. Every $20 you make will help with both debt and setting up an emergency fund (vital!). Also, if either of you is handy in things like writing, computer stuff, art, etc. - all kinds of things - you can go to places like guru.com and big on projects that you can complete and turn in electronically. I've made thousands of dollars on guru.com.


Thanks! We actually have a lot of stuff we were going to sell on eBay (need room in the house too). I'll check out bookoo.com and guru.com. Sounds like oDesk which I have earned some money doing freelance work for before.

Thanks for the info!

J


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

MysticSoul said:


> If the car repairs are too much financially, at this junction, consider sharing a car with your wife. My car broke down (needs at $2,000 repair) and we don't have it handy at the moment. So we've been sharing a car for over a year now. It takes some finesse, and compromise, but you CAN make it work. Or whoever lives/works closest to public transportation, can rely on buses and trolleys to get to and from work.
> 
> Your doing great! One step at a time.


Thanks!

It's not looking good for the car. We did share one for a year after our twins were born, and I commuted a lot because my schools were along bus or train routes. This year mine isn't, and the commute into NYC for her is rough on bus as she works on the opposite side of the city. Plus there is the additional feelings of anger that come with something like this, as it is my fault that we don't have the money to be able to either fix this one (probably) or get a used car. It's not our main vehicle and I use it to drive 15-20 miles a day to/from work and around town running errands. Not used for longer rides.

This is very stressful. I did manage to get one of the two fraud things knocked off my credit report, which jumped up a whole 9 points because that was removed, so that's a positive. Now I have a bunch of other things that they need to update and at least our credit will be somewhat back to not being crappy.

J


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## Lift326 (Mar 18, 2014)

Damn dude ..... And she is still with you? 

I guess you have a ride or die chick..... Hard to find those anymore.... Most people as soon as something goes wrong in a marriage start whining and looking for a way out. Marriages have good stretches and bumpy parts and you seem to be causing all of the bumps at the moment. 

As long as you keep working it out I think she will forgive your mistakes because you seem to be a take charge type person... Without a map or direction sometimes... But apparently that is what she likes about you.....

Be careful not to turn a plus into a loss.... Even a ride or die chick will get off a ride heading toward a cliff. Takes about 3 years to recover from this so take it slow sell stuff and turn a hobby into money making pops or even just do chores.... Lots of guys pay others to cut grass or rake leaves during their sporting events seasons.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

PBear said:


> Just curious about what you mean by "cut a check" for you children's school. Are they in private school?
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Nursery school up the street, since we are both working full-time.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Rangers1 said:


> Nursery school up the street, since we are both working full-time.


Gotcha. Hope things are going well 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Another way to save money is if you join a babysitting co-op where others may need babysitting on the days that you and the wife are off work. You never know.


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## Rangers1 (Mar 4, 2014)

Lift326 said:


> Damn dude ..... And she is still with you?
> 
> I guess you have a ride or die chick..... Hard to find those anymore.... Most people as soon as something goes wrong in a marriage start whining and looking for a way out. Marriages have good stretches and bumpy parts and you seem to be causing all of the bumps at the moment.
> 
> ...


I agree. I know in MC it's come up... why is she still with me? We've been together so long she doesn't know any different, and is partly scared of the unknown. I agree. I am the cause of this and I take responsibility. I own this. I'm not a type A personality, she actually is, but yes I need to take charge and have direction and a plan from here on out.

Took the first step today in actually crafting an income/loss spreadsheet and working on a budget. Working on the car issue spurned this, and we are going to have to find some room to be able to get a new (well, "new" used) car as the chevy is dead and too far gone to repair. We are going to use a small loan amount from her 403b to get one, and with the budget, make room and make it affordable. We are going to sell things we don't need and have around, and I'm actively looking for both freelance work on oDesk and Guru, and looking around at other options too. Yes I will have to be away from my family in order to add more money, but at least it will help my family stay together and weather this storm until things calm down financially. 

This is a learning process and it's very uncomfortable for both of us and myself. Budgeting.... Never done it before. Awful thing to admit but true. I've been irresponsible (and I'm sure she would admit to being an emotional spender at times) and I need to act and stop that now. I've been having trouble sleeping, headaches, anxiety and hopelessness with this entire situation. We argue, don't have sex, often fight, and I need to man up, change and make things better for my family. 

J


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The Total Money Makeover program is really good for reducing debt.
https://www.mytotalmoneymakeover.com/


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