# Wife wants to vacation by herself...



## finsrule

I was on the phone with my wife recently when she says, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. The family cant take a vacation right now, we cant afford it so why does she get to?

She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go. I get that.

This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.

I am having a hard time with this, I would never ever even think about taking a vacation without her. I can't imagine anyone telling (not asking) their spouse that they are going to go away for a week by themselves.

The other thing is that money is tight, we need a lot of work done to our house, and have other expenses with more priority than a vacation.

The money part doesn't bother me so much as her not considering me. Again, I know she would say she didn't consider me or the kids because she didn't think it would be possible for even just the 2 of us, that her alone is the only possibility. Even if that were the case, I still can't wrap my head around her wanting to take a vacation by herself.

Am I wrong? Am I blowing this out of proportion? Why would a wife or husband want to go away by themselves, unless they wanted to get away from their family?

Very confused and quite honesty, a little hurt.


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## SunnyT

My take: Mom's almost never get a vacation. Yes we love our family, but when we all go on a vacation together....it is not a vacation for mom. (Not sure how much this applies to Dad's in general)

So, while it may hurt your feelings.... I'd tell her "Good for you! Now help me figure out how I am going to get away when you get back!" 

I'm sure she considered you. And for all the reasons you've mentioned she has decided that she is doing this, alone.

I would talk to her. Tell her that it hurt your feelings that you weren't considered or included. But I hope in this conversation that you can find understanding for her part too. Maybe you could consider finding care for the kids for the week and going with her? IF that's doable, then I don't know how she could disagree. 

I know some people will disagree with me and say that if both can't go then neither should go. Why? Why not let her go and decompress and come back more relaxed and happy? Don't we want that for our spouse?


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## finsrule

Thank You Sunny,

I want the world for my wife, if I was a wealthy man, she would be the most spoiled girl on the planet. I would also like to lay on a beach and decompress but just can't imagine asking to do that by myself.

Also as far as family vacations go, I am the one who the chases the kids and keeps them entertained. They are older now so it isn't as much of an issue, but I do everything I can to ensure she doesn't have to do anything. I also do the majority of housework and I don't say these things because I am bitter or think I am owed or even to imply that I make her life as easy as possible. She does a lot to make my life easier as well. I absolutely understand her desire to get away, but if I heard someone else was doing this, my first thought would be that there may be "trouble in paradise". Maybe that is overblown?

Have you ever heard of a hubby or wife telling their spouse they are taking a vaca by themselves?


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## mablenc

How old are your kids? I get she may want a break, but it seems a bit selfish IMO. Why not take a three day weekend with you, in a closer area for example.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## finsrule

Kids are 17 and 10...


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## mablenc

Is there something else going on? Does she seem unhappy or is she simply exhausted? This can be a needed break for her, from your post I see it's not her usual behavior. Some couples do vacation alone others don't. I personally don't or wouldn't but I have also been worn out to the point of needing a few hours of alone time. 

I say you should talk to her about how you feel and also to understand her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks

there's alot to your post.

1. Your wife's view of marriage and life is that it revoles around her. Her view of the universe is that everyone in the family should naturally support her desires. And your view of the marriage is that you better work really hard to make sure your wife is happy.

You have to set things up that you work hard to make her happy, and she works hard to make you happy.

2. You are failing to give her a fulfilling life, so she needs to escape from it. The effort you are putting in so to speak is not hitting it's target. You have to adjust your aim.


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## Anuvia

finsrule said:


> I was on the phone with my wife recently when she says, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. The family cant take a vacation right now, we cant afford it so why does she get to?
> 
> She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go. I get that.
> 
> This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.
> 
> I am having a hard time with this, I would never ever even think about taking a vacation without her. I can't imagine anyone telling (not asking) their spouse that they are going to go away for a week by themselves.
> 
> The other thing is that money is tight, we need a lot of work done to our house, and have other expenses with more priority than a vacation.
> 
> The money part doesn't bother me so much as her not considering me. Again, I know she would say she didn't consider me or the kids because she didn't think it would be possible for even just the 2 of us, that her alone is the only possibility. Even if that were the case, I still can't wrap my head around her wanting to take a vacation by herself.
> 
> Am I wrong? Am I blowing this out of proportion? Why would a wife or husband want to go away by themselves, unless they wanted to get away from their family?
> 
> Very confused and quite honesty, a little hurt.


She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself. She's stressed? So what. Life is stressful. You all either vacation as a family or don't do it at all.


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## LongWalk

How old are the two of you?

Does she spend a lot of time on Facebook with friends in her old home town?


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## jld

Hicks said:


> You have to set things up that you work hard to make her happy, and she works hard to make you happy.


:iagree:


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## tom67

Anuvia said:


> She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself. She's stressed? So what. Life is stressful. You all either vacation as a family or don't do it at all.


It is possible.
Does she have a lot of friends back there?
It's worth checking into.


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## Pault

I guess reading the recent post on boundries might give you an insight in to some of the replies your likley to get here.

Im all for everyone having a holiday. Moms dont get "time off" that often but with a family of 17 and 10 I think there is certainly some responsibilities tol be taken by the children here - at least one is a young adult. 

Going away solo. Ok shes under stress and tired. Are you? Has she asked if your coping with stresses as well?

Any good H will want the best for the wife as should any good wife. What exactly does she need a holiday from, you, tyhe family or both?

At a time when money is tight around teh world we all have to take "holidays" as best we can even if its a self catering tent in some sunny park - its still a break and where the children can be told that they have some weight to pull to make everyones burdan smaller.

Im not a fan of singles holidays. Ive seen to many "whats happens in - stays in" statements from solo holiday takers.

May be tell her youll arrange "baby sitting and both good for 3 to 4 days. If your beaching it then its food out, bed and breakfast only accomodation to be found which is great and still comes ina good budget.

Unless of course she wants you out of the way as well for her to let her hair down.


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## tom67

Pault said:


> I guess reading the recent post on boundries might give you an insight in to some of the replies your likley to get here.
> 
> Im all for everyone having a holiday. Moms dont get "time off" that often but with a family of 17 and 10 I think there is certainly some responsibilities tol be taken by the children here - at least one is a young adult.
> 
> Going away solo. Ok shes under stress and tired. Are you? Has she asked if your coping with stresses as well?
> 
> Any good H will want the best for the wife as should any good wife. What exactly does she need a holiday from, you, tyhe family or both?
> 
> At a time when money is tight around teh world we all have to take "holidays" as best we can even if its a self catering tent in some sunny park - its still a break and where the children can be told that they have some weight to pull to make everyones burdan smaller.
> 
> Im not a fan of singles holidays. Ive seen to many "whats happens in - stays in" statements from solo holiday takers.
> 
> May be tell her youll arrange "baby sitting and both good for 3 to 4 days. If your beaching it then its food out, bed and breakfast only accomodation to be found which is great and still comes ina good budget.
> 
> Unless of course she wants you out of the way as well for her to let her hair down.


This could be one of those fitness tests or otherwise known as sh!t tests.
I think you should have a talk with her that you are not okay with this just my opinion.


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## lifeistooshort

Anuvia said:


> She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself. She's stressed? So what. Life is stressful. You all either vacation as a family or don't do it at all.


Wow. So does this mean when I go out shopping for the day by myself I'm really trolling for new c0ck? I had no idea.
Seriously, I don't see the big deal if she wants some time to herself. I've gone to visit my sister for almost a week by myself, and my hb stayed with my kids (he is stepdad), and I was not looking for c0ck, I was hanging out with my mom and sister. If you feel a week is a bit much, so why don't you try to negotiate a few days? Then either negotiate a few days for yourself or for the family when she gets back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

tom67 said:


> This could be one of those fitness tests or otherwise known as sh!t tests.
> I think you should have a talk with her that you are not okay with this just my opinion.



I can't help but wonder if a man wanted to go hunting with his buddies for 4 or 5 days if we'd be told that he works hard and deserves a break with his buddies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## omega

My husband regularly encourages me to go away on my own (like for a weekend) probably because he feels guilty that he travels a lot for work (to really cool places) and I don't (and so far, I've never actually done this except once to pick up my mom from a distant airport). But it would never cross my mind to TELL HIM that I have decided that I am taking off, bye bye, see you in a week... that seems rather cold to me. Not saying that she is being cold or has an ulterior motive, but the idea of lying on a beach is VERY attractive... assuming my husband is lying right next to me. I would miss him too much to enjoy myself.

It's hard for us to say if something suspicious is going on here - but the fact that it makes you uncomfortable and hurt really is sufficient to say that it's not okay. Can you suggest a few days away together to a local B&B to reconnect and rest? While also planning a family vacation (even if not for this year).


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## zookeeper

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she is looking to cheat, but the fact that she is not more concerned about "alone time" for the two of you together is worrisome. This could be the early stages of her detaching from you. If she is unhappy with her life and finds relief separate from you, you run a big risk of her beginning to equate the stress/unhappiness with you. It becomes a conditioned response. 

My suggestion would be to tell her you will find a way for the two of you to get away together. Forget the money, forget the house repairs. Make it happen. If the marriage drifts into crisis, your money problems will get a whole lot worse anyway. Make an investment in the form of both time and money now and you may just keep the ship off the jetty.


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## tom67

lifeistooshort said:


> I can't help but wonder if a man wanted to go hunting with his buddies for 4 or 5 days if we'd be told that he works hard and deserves a break with his buddies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If he talked it over with her first and is going with known friends of the marriage it shouldn't be a problem.
The way OP explained this she basically said she is going by herself no discussion.
If it were the other way around I would have a problem with it just the same.


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## Tall Average Guy

finsrule said:


> Also as far as family vacations go, I am the one who the chases the kids and keeps them entertained. They are older now so it isn't as much of an issue, but I do everything I can to ensure she doesn't have to do anything. I also do the majority of housework and I don't say these things because I am bitter or think I am owed or even to imply that I make her life as easy as possible. She does a lot to make my life easier as well. I absolutely understand her desire to get away, but if I heard someone else was doing this, my first thought would be that there may be "trouble in paradise". Maybe that is overblown?


A couple things jump out here, so some further clarity would be helpful. You say on past vacations you "do everything ... to ensure she does have to do anything." What does she do to make your vacation time enjoyable? You also note that you "do the majority of housework." How does she make your life easier?

Also, how is your marriage in general? Do you date your wife? Do you to talk regularly together? How is your sex life?


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## tom67

zookeeper said:


> I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she is looking to cheat, but the fact that she is not more concerned about "alone time" for the two of you together is worrisome. This could be the early stages of her detaching from you. If she is unhappy with her life and finds relief separate from you, you run a big risk of her beginning to equate the stress/unhappiness with you. It becomes a conditioned response.
> 
> My suggestion would be to tell her you will find a way for the two of you to get away together. Forget the money, forget the house repairs. Make it happen. If the marriage drifts into crisis, your money problems will get a whole lot worse anyway. Make an investment in the form of both time and money now and you may just keep the ship off the jetty.


:iagree::iagree:


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## bandit.45

Yeah but the guy is with buddies. Not traveling alone and staying alone for a week.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

finsrule said:


> I was on the phone with my wife recently when she says, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.


For the 18 years I was raising DD23 with my H, I asked him EACH YEAR for one thing as a birthday or Christmas present. One thing only: for him to take DD and go away for a weekend, so I could be in my house, BY MYSELF, so I could 'turn off' being his wife and her mother. The closest I came to that is, once, he took DD to a nearby timeshare for 5 or 6 hours so I could be alone. And once, before starting a new job, I took a weekend at the timeshare by myself, leaving on Friday night after my last day at the old job. Guess who showed up, kid in tow, at the timeshare the next morning? You guess it; my H.

Women don't turn off, by nature. I'll bet yours doesn't either. They are always 'on,' making sure the kids are taken care of, you're getting your food and sex and tv time and whatever else it is you need, working and then coming home and doing the bulk of the housework and kids' baths and kids' homework and dinner and laundry and then, MAYBE, sitting down at 10pm to read an article or a couple pages of a book if she's lucky. Then going to bed, getting up early to get everyone going in the morning, and doing it all over again.

If this isn't your situation, maybe you do have a right to be upset. But if she is doing anything near what I just described, by all means, yes, she needs a week 'off' to decompress and just be herself - for once.


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## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but the guy is with buddies. Not traveling alone and staying alone for a week.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I thought she was going to stay with her aunt and uncle.


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## finsrule

She is not going to her hometown, we live where she was born and raised. She wants to stay with her Aunt and Uncle in Fl.

This is not like a girls trip or guys trip, I have no problem with that. This is not her visiting her mom or sis, I have no problem with that.

She said to me, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my Aunt and Uncle in Fl for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"

I get that, she has been under a lot of stress from work, she does need that.

I am just having a hard time with her saying "I", not considering her family or me. Why by herself? Why not ask if it was possible the 2 of us could go?

So maybe I am insecure but it does seem like she wants to be away from the family.

I will talk to her for sure, I appreciate the advice, please send more and ask other questions if need be or if I haven't answered any that you have asked.

Thanks all


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## LoveLonely

Anuvia said:


> She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself. She's stressed? So what. Life is stressful. You all either vacation as a family or don't do it at all.


Maybe. So what if she IS doing this? Or, what if it is something else? Either way, he loses. Further, even if he manages to not "let" her go, he STILL loses. She still wanted to do it, so the problem is still there. In my opinion, that perspective really sucks.


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## Caribbean Man

Something's puzzling about this.
Some background information is missing.


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## mablenc

finsrule said:


> She is not going to her hometown, we live where she was born and raised. She wants to stay with her Aunt and Uncle in Fl.
> 
> This is not like a girls trip or guys trip, I have no problem with that. This is not her visiting her mom or sis, I have no problem with that.
> 
> She said to me, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my Aunt and Uncle in Fl for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> I get that, she has been under a lot of stress from work, she does need that.
> 
> I am just having a hard time with her saying "I", not considering her family or me. Why by herself? Why not ask if it was possible the 2 of us could go?
> 
> So maybe I am insecure but it does seem like she wants to be away from the family.
> 
> I will talk to her for sure, I appreciate the advice, please send more and ask other questions if need be or if I haven't answered any that you have asked.
> 
> Thanks all


Well why not say you want it come, your kids are not that young. Ask though, don't just invite yourself. If she insist, tell her to have a great time. Then plan something for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Sounds to me like she needs a break from you for whatever reason. You say you do 'so much' for her and the house, but maybe that's not what SHE wants. Have you ever sat down and discussed what a perfect marriage/life would look like to her?


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## Philat

The separate vacations issue is one that really needs to be considered on a case-by-case basis, I think. For many couples it is the norm, and harmless. For me personally, it would be a start on the road to separate everything.


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## Openminded

I was married for 45 years and never once did my husband and I vacation separately. We went together or not at all. I did occasionally visit my parents with my son but without my husband for a few days over the years but that was no vacation. 

So given that I have the mindset of a different generation it seems selfish to me for either husband or wife to vacation separately. We both traveled for business but there was no choice there. As far as cheating goes, his AP worked for him. He didn't meet her traveling. I definitely think travel presents the opportunity to cheat if you are interested but not everyone cheats when they travel.


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## northernlights

I thought every mom fantasized about spending a week at the beach by herself! I sure do!

Talk to your wife about it. I live in a really cold state (we've got a blizzard going on right now as a matter of fact, and it's below zero out). Sometimes at night, I lie in bed before I fall asleep and dream that I'm on the hot sand, all by myself. My girls are 5 and 8, and I work full time. It's a fantasy I would fulfill in a heartbeat if I could!

So my first thought is that your wife wants to do this now because she knows the kids are old enough to be away from for a week. If she's planning to stay with her aunt and uncle, I seriously doubt she's thinking about trying to pick up guys.


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## Caribbean Man

Why would a wife of 17+ years suddenly want to go solo without any close friends and family on a vacation in a tropical location?

My wife does separate vacations at times , but I'm always invited with her friends.

I think there's probably deeper issues here.
I'm not judging on whether she's wrong or right.

I'm thinking that the OP is either holding back something from us or he's genuinely unaware of what's happening with his wife.

But whatever the real problem is , he's still in the dark.


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## turnera

I've had many daydreams about going on vacation by myself. But that's because my needs aren't being met at home. So...


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## northernlights

turnera said:


> I've had many daydreams about going on vacation by myself. But that's because my needs aren't being met at home. So...


Interesting. Do you think the women in happy marriages don't fantasize about a week at the beach alone? I honestly thought _everyone_ did. But what do I know?


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## PBear

The separate holidays are one thing... I can see that happening sometimes. But the separate holidays that only SHE gets are another thing. If there's not enough money for both of you to take a holiday (together or separately), then it should be out aside until there is enough money. Or plans scaled back so you can both enjoy a weekend. 

IMHO...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cubby

I know what I would do if my wife, suddenly out of the blue, announced that she wants a beach vacation in Florida by herself. I would immediately examine the cell phone bills, her emails, facebook, texts, etc.

Not because an announcement like this automatically means she's cheating, but because it's an out-of-place statement and would make me think "where did this come from?" It's one of those things that deserves a closer evaluation so you can narrow down the reason for her need for a vacation. 

Checking the phone and emails is an easy thing to do and will at least allow you to cross cheating off the list if the search comes up empty.


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## Cubby

northernlights said:


> Interesting. Do you think the women in happy marriages don't fantasize about a week at the beach alone? I honestly thought _everyone_ did. But what do I know?


I'm a man and I don't even have any remote desires to vacation on the beach alone. Sounds really boring and lonely to me. 

Now what is it with women that makes this kind of vacation appealing? I understand the beach part. What about the alone part?

I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm genuinely curious.


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## northernlights

Cubby said:


> I'm a man and I don't even have any remote desires to vacation on the beach alone. Sounds really boring and lonely to me.
> 
> Now what is it with women that makes this kind of vacation appealing? I understand the beach part. What about the alone part?
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm genuinely curious.


I do nearly all of the housework and all of the childcare. Small children and physically so demanding, and especially if you breastfeed (I did, for a total of SIX years!), you really start to miss your personal space. On top of that, you always have part of your attention devoted to your children. Where are they? The beach is anything but relaxing, because you have to be alert to where they are (drowning is obviously a HUGE hazard), when was the last time they got sunscreen, what you'll do when someone has to go to the bathroom, did you pack enough food and water, it goes ON and ON. There's just no true relaxation when people depend on you like that.

So the fantasy is, the kids aren't there. And the husband isn't either, because some husbands need nearly as much attention and care as the kids do. No one wants anything from you. Dinner, or that load of laundry sitting in the dryer that needs to be folded (ha! that reminds me, I have one of those right now!), all of that would be gone. Ahhh... lovely!!!


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## temperance

Maybe she just need a little vacation / time out for herself. She is staying with relatives so it should costs less. My take is.... let her, respect her wish. Tell her why you feel a little hurt but you respect her needs and let her take a week or two off. 

I went away solo, because of stress, emotional and financial. I needed it, I just needed a break for myself. And I came back clear minded and 'recharged' so to speak.


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## Cubby

northernlights said:


> I do nearly all of the housework and all of the childcare. Small children and physically so demanding, and especially if you breastfeed (I did, for a total of SIX years!), you really start to miss your personal space. On top of that, you always have part of your attention devoted to your children. Where are they? The beach is anything but relaxing, because you have to be alert to where they are (drowning is obviously a HUGE hazard), when was the last time they got sunscreen, what you'll do when someone has to go to the bathroom, did you pack enough food and water, it goes ON and ON. There's just no true relaxation when people depend on you like that.
> 
> So the fantasy is, the kids aren't there. And the husband isn't either, because some husbands need nearly as much attention and care as the kids do. No one wants anything from you. Dinner, or that load of laundry sitting in the dryer that needs to be folded (ha! that reminds me, I have one of those right now!), all of that would be gone. Ahhh... lovely!!!


Thanks for clarifying. Okay, I get it. In the OP's case, something like this might be what it's about. It's hard to say at this point. More information is needed....


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## Bushman1972

lifeistooshort said:


> I can't help but wonder if a man wanted to go hunting with his buddies for 4 or 5 days if we'd be told that he works hard and deserves a break with his buddies.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True it works both ways. But is there a solid trust foundation?


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## Caribbean Man

PBear said:


> The separate holidays are one thing... I can see that happening sometimes.* But the separate holidays that only SHE gets are another thing. If there's not enough money for both of you to take a holiday (together or separately), then it should be out aside until there is enough money. *Or plans scaled back so you can both enjoy a weekend.
> 
> IMHO...
> 
> C


This^^ is what I mean when I said something is missing.

Her urgency almost makes it appear like she's either running from something or to something or both.

Everyone fantisizes about a vacation in a tropical location, but I don't think everybody insists on doing exactly that even when their budget and situation would barely allow it.

Like I said before. My wife does separate vacations with her girlfriends every year. This year's destination was a South American one extremely popular for its beaches. 
She was really looking forward to it with her girlfriends but something happened and we both agreed that she'd have to wait until later his year when we can both go together or next year for hes girlfriends annual vacation 
" pilgrimage."

In the OP's wife's case, there seems to be an " unatural haste."


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## northernlights

Cubby said:


> Thanks for clarifying. Okay, I get it. In the OP's case, something like this might be what it's about. It's hard to say at this point. More information is needed....


Yeah. It's interesting that the OP says he does much of the housework and childcare. It could be that he waaaaaay overestimates his contributions, or it could be that he really does a great deal of it. Still, it's a lot of work even when there are 2 people pulling their weight, so I could see her wanting this no matter what their situation is like.

Maybe she's also thinking that with her H home, childcare isn't an issue, and if she's staying with her aunt and uncle, the vacation should be pretty cheap. Unless she's against her H doing the same thing later this year (for equally cheap!), it seems totally fine to me.

Then again, my H has taken multiple vacations by himself. I haven't because my girls are still too small, but I would if they were ok with me going. So it's not a strange idea to me.


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## LoveLonely

I'd "let" her take the vacation. Why? Because she wants to. Even if you could keep her from doing it, she still WANTED to. So, then it still sucks for you.

I just wouldn't be home when she got back.


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## kag123

Ok playing devils advocate here...

I have often dreamed of taking a trip alone away from my H and kids. You see, I suffer greatly from depression and anxiety. I am being treated for it - but as with most adults who work and have kids, when a particularly stressful time hits, it can really send me spiraling. I get so caught up in my mental illness during those times that all I want to do is withdraw. Turn the world OFF around me so I can cry, scream, go comatose and then come back refreshed so my family doesnt have to be around to see it all. My illness is beyond what I can explain to my H, and I would never dream of talking about it to my kids or coworkers. 

In my gut I know its a cycle that I will go through. The dark times can be pretty dark but if I am left alone and able to decompress a bit I can usually pull myself out of it. During my dark times I harbor tons of guilt for not being able to function normally....I feel like an awful wife and mother and I know that I can be unpleasant to be around. Hence the strong desire to be away from everyone so they dont have to deal with me, because they dont deserve it!

However - I have never had the balls to actually plan anything like that to get away on my own. My H is incredibly helpful with the kids and the house and does more than his fair share so I have always felt too guilty to ask him to take on even more burden to let me run away for awhile. 

I dont want to scare you, but another reason I have never really pushed for the trips is because I have a history of suicidal tendencies and when I am feeling the depression intensely it scares me to think of being alone....like I cant trust myself not to do something stupid. I am NOT saying thats how your wife feels at all. Just giving you one persons story. 

I am just responding because her desire to "lay on a beach" is similar to what I dream of....just going somewhere where I would not run into a single human being and being left alone with my thoughts. 

It is a selfish request. I have voiced it to my H before. He knows a bit about how I struggle and he knows that I would not make a mention like that lightly. For me to take the plunge and plan to get away means that I need it badly enough that my need to get away outweighed the obligation to my family....which for me is huge. 

If she is not normally a selfish person, consider that she may be desperately grabbing for straws looking for ways to help herself out of whatever suffering she is going through. If this is out of character for her, perhaps try finding out what she's trying to run away from, specifically. 

You have to talk to her about it. Every point you made was valid and she should be considering your feelings too.


----------



## temperance

Cubby said:


> I'm a man and I don't even have any remote desires to vacation on the beach alone. Sounds really boring and lonely to me.
> 
> Now what is it with women that makes this kind of vacation appealing? I understand the beach part. What about the alone part?
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm genuinely curious.


Well I don't think it has something do with 'woman or man'. I think it depends on the personality. I love traveling solo, I don't feel lonely going out to a restaurant to eat by myself ordering the food I enjoy at that moment! For me, it is like it gives me the freedom to enjoy myself without worrying about how other people sees me... like a time to be 'carefree'.. It is like a 'bucket list' type of thing.... that I feel I have done so much, work, responsibilities and all that, and I just want to have a little alone time. Doesn't mean I want to be alone in a remote area meditating or something (although some people might find that's what they need)... 

For my trip, I took off with the little room I have on my visa card. I just lost my house, all my assets and my financial stability was out the door, my business were tanking and my husband still refused to work... 'irresponsible' on my part isn't it?! My stress level was going through the roof! I went skiing by myself, snowmobiling, sight seeing, without knowing anyone, I just went off and see what I can do, and join different groups of 'couples and families'.... I enjoy my beer and hockey game by myself in the bar.... I went dog sledding, took a 30 min course on how-to and there I go! I enjoyed reading a few good books sitting beside a huge fireplace at the hotel lobby. And I enjoy having a cup of instant noodles in my hotel room watching TV in bed all by myself! THAT was liberating for me. 

Yes on the way I met strangers, talk to people and travelers alike, and just go around town and take pictures. And yes I have strangers hitting on me, but heck... it was for me, no intention of hooking up and made my intention clear also.... that I want to be 'left alone'.... if they want company to chit chat that's fine with me.... some trip activities requires at least two person for the tour then yea, I would happily tag along with someone so I can take pictures. 

Maybe the different is ... men always think or need sex and companionship from buddies or woman to be happy? Women like myself enjoy all the other stuff like 'feeling' the fireplace, the atmosphere, 'feeling' the joy of the moment when I see happy families and kids getting ready to go to the ski hill.... just enjoy the 'feelings' of life without worrying about sh$t? It's for my emotional health!

Maybe... like when you go out with your buddies for hunting, sport games or whatever makes you feel relax and de-stress (without sex)?


----------



## tom67

Caribbean Man said:


> Why would a wife of 17+ years suddenly want to go solo without any close friends and family on a vacation in a tropical location?
> 
> My wife does separate vacations at times , but I'm always invited with her friends.
> 
> I think there's probably deeper issues here.
> I'm not judging on whether she's wrong or right.
> 
> I'm thinking that the OP is either holding back something from us or he's genuinely unaware of what's happening with his wife.
> 
> But whatever the real problem is , he's still in the dark.


:iagree:
More info is needed OP when you have a chance thanks.


----------



## turnera

Cubby said:


> I'm a man and I don't even have any remote desires to vacation on the beach alone. Sounds really boring and lonely to me.
> 
> Now what is it with women that makes this kind of vacation appealing? I understand the beach part. What about the alone part?
> 
> I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm genuinely curious.


We've already explained it, at least three of us. Women, in general, don't shut off. They don't stop mothering, they don't stop making sure the house is running smoothly, they don't stop picking up, or moving laundry, or picking up a crying child, or taking care of everyone else and then, maybe, if she's lucky, she gets to sit down at 10pm to give herself a few minutes before it's bedtime. THAT is why. If the family is around, the woman will be 'on' for taking care of everyone else in the family. IF the family is not around, she can just be a human being again and not a mother, wife, taxi, etc.


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## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> This^^ is what I mean when I said something is missing.
> 
> Her urgency almost makes it appear like she's either running from something or to something or both.


He's already said multiple times that she's having a bad time at work.



> In the OP's wife's case, there seems to be an " unatural haste."


The haste is that that is when the aunt and uncle are going.


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## bandit.45

Just let her go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RClawson

OP,

I believe this is how my marriage began to unravel a few years ago. My wife was busting her behind and really went above and beyond at work. I was trying to save a business that was threatened and it was consuming me. When my wife suggested she take some time away I completely understood and hey I could not get away so why not?

Then it became the norm, then with friends until I told her this year we need to get away together. Unfortunately my daughter had a financial emergency that sapped us financially and those plans went down the drain. Imagine my surprise when I got home from taking my daughter back to school and my wife "reminded" me that she was going off with her friends up the coast for a long weekend together at a family cabin. I just shook my head and did the "whatever".

It bothered me and I knew we had to get away so I saved some cash and scheduled a four day weekend together at our favorite coastal retreat. She is agreeable (and really that is about all she was). 

So I have not been away with her for more than an overnight for 4-5 years and we are walking on he beach to get to a decent spot but there are hundreds of thousands of flies all over the sand. I start to say something and she turns to me and says "Do not ruin this time for me". She turned around and I looked at the ocean and I seriously considered the option of drowning her for a moment.

Now OP I will agree that we have very little to go on from your post. I for one am wary of this for my own personal reasons and experiences. I do not think it is a good idea and I do think that this has to be a joint decision you are both comfortable with. If you both decide this is a good idea now fine but I would not let it become a habit.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

RClawson said:


> OP,
> 
> So I have not been away with her for more than an overnight for 4-5 years and we are walking on he beach to get to a decent spot but there are hundreds of thousands of flies all over the sand. I start to say something and she turns to me and says "Do not ruin this time for me". She turned around and I looked at the ocean and I seriously considered the option of drowning her for a moment.


:scratchhead: I must be a horrible person but I could totally see your wife's POV here. My fantasy get away from the house and kids and work dream vacation on the beach does not include complaining about flies or talking about anything non-relaxing. In fact, no talking. Just lay by the beach listening to the ocean. But that could just be me. I can also see why that vacation would be nice without the husband for the same reason. Sometimes I (and I know other Moms as well) just want everyone to leave me the hell alone, that includes talking to me. Don't even look at me. Just let me be in silence for a while


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## ConanHub

A couple of gals have said they would, but their husbands seemed kind of jacked up. If the marriage is solid, why get away from your spouse? If they are a whining Jack asz I think there are bigger problems than a solo vacation.

The OP has stated that she decided this without any input or consideration for her husband. That is certainly a red flag. Stressed or not, a spouse who doesn't even consider talking with their SO before getting some "alone " time on a beach for a week, shows a dangerous lack of regard for their marriage.

OP, I think you need to communicate with your wife and find out what the problem is with your marriage
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn

turnera said:


> We've already explained it, at least three of us. Women, in general, don't shut off. They don't stop mothering, they don't stop making sure the house is running smoothly, they don't stop picking up, or moving laundry, or picking up a crying child, or taking care of everyone else and then, maybe, if she's lucky, she gets to sit down at 10pm to give herself a few minutes before it's bedtime. THAT is why. If the family is around, the woman will be 'on' for taking care of everyone else in the family. IF the family is not around, she can just be a human being again and not a mother, wife, taxi, etc.


her kids are 17,and 10 not too many diapers and at that age if their not pitching in with dishes, laundry,grass cutting,sweeping then someone dropped the ball. 

maybe just maybe its time to start shutting down so you don't feel overwhelmed.

thats a myrter syndrome. 


I work much harder than everybody around me. I just can't help it I'm soooooo stressed I think I should spend money we don't have at the price of my family so I can go decompress......


its almost insulting.....no it is insulting. at least to me. I work hard and I feel stress, everybody does. she needs to get over it.


by the way I also think if this was just out of the blue and she hasn't been doing this for years then she could be trolling or meeting up with someone. and I would start digging. extra seceret special probation!!!!!!!!!!!! I smell something fishy.


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## samyeagar

Is the general consensus then that a husband who wants to stop attending to his wife's needs, kids' needs, families needs and take a week off by himself, is perfectly deserving as well?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

ConanHub said:


> If the marriage is solid, why get away from your spouse? If they are a whining Jack asz I think there are bigger problems than a solo vacation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, there's not a man in the world that would make me want to spend every moment of my available time with him. I'm an introvert, I like alone time, it has nothing to do with who I am with. Parents love their children and still want time away from them too. It's exhausting going from work to mom and wife everyday, all day long. Everyone always needs something, even if they just need you to listen to them. Shutting everyone-including people I love dearly- off for a while would be lovely. At this point even an hour for a bubble bath without someone needing to rush me out so they can pee (even though I asked them all before I went in!) would be lovely


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## alexm

Anuvia said:


> She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself.


I feel bad for all the people who's lives have become this, I really do. I'm sorry if this happened to you, or you know people this has happened to, but it doesn't apply to everyone, at all times. It's possible, of course. But to put that in such a matter-of-fact way to the OP? That's reprehensible.

Sometimes people just want to get away and not deal, and that's okay, IMO. It absolutely does not mean there's any trouble in paradise. Helping raise kids for 10 and 17 years is exhausting. Work is exhausting. Hell, being married can be exhausting. Every single time you go somewhere, your husband and/or kids are there.

It doesn't mean she's looking to get something on the side...


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## WyshIknew

We've done this for ages.

I go away for a week with my friends fishing and drinking.

I send the wife off to London for a long weekend with her mum and friends and she goes shopping, theatre etc. Tried it once with her and almost lost the will to live after the 10th shop.

I think we are luckier than many Americans as we get more holiday (vacation) days. I get a minimum of 38 days a year.


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## Anon Pink

When your nature is to nurture and give care, it doesn't ever turn off. My husband doesn't get it either. He doesn't see that no matter what is happening, the kids come to me. Hell the even come to me when they need car advice which is the most bizarre thing since I don't know a thing about cars! Kids go to mom! Mom makes sure the kids are fed, and content, and safe, and behaving, and dressed, and engaged in appropriate activities... There is no turn off switch!

I would love a week on the beech by myself! Books, waiters bringing coffee and frozen drinks in the afternoon, jumping in the water when I want, not bothering to look around to spot the kids...just me, some books, a bathing suit, of coffee pot... That is the life!


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## Giro flee

My husband goes ice fishing and hunting by himself every year. He is introverted and really enjoys the time alone. It does not bother me at all, he always returns happy and energized. I used to go with him but I really do not enjoy those activities at all.

My kids are all teens now and H travels so I have more than enough alone time at my own house. A trip somewhere warm with H would be heavenly right now, it was -40 F this morning without the windchill.


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## alexm

Reading through this whole thread, it is quite apparent that the bulk of those people who are saying "it's all right, no big deal" are women, whereas the crowd who is saying "she's looking to hook up" and "I would start checking her phone records" are men. (and probably men who have been burned in the past, to boot).

And there's your difference, AND answer, right there, OP.

She COULD be looking to hook up with someone while there, who knows. But you ain't gonna stop that simply by putting the kibosh on this trip. If that's what she wants, ultimately she'll do it, here, there, or anywhere.

But, personally, I think she just needs to take a break from life. If that's the case, then she'll come back refreshed and ready to start anew, and isn't that a good thing?


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## Holland

turnera said:


> For the 18 years I was raising DD23 with my H, I asked him EACH YEAR for one thing as a birthday or Christmas present. One thing only: for him to take DD and go away for a weekend, so I could be in my house, BY MYSELF, so I could 'turn off' being his wife and her mother. The closest I came to that is, once, he took DD to a nearby timeshare for 5 or 6 hours so I could be alone. And once, before starting a new job, I took a weekend at the timeshare by myself, leaving on Friday night after my last day at the old job. Guess who showed up, kid in tow, at the timeshare the next morning? You guess it; my H.
> 
> Women don't turn off, by nature. I'll bet yours doesn't either. They are always 'on,' making sure the kids are taken care of, you're getting your food and sex and tv time and whatever else it is you need, working and then coming home and doing the bulk of the housework and kids' baths and kids' homework and dinner and laundry and then, MAYBE, sitting down at 10pm to read an article or a couple pages of a book if she's lucky. Then going to bed, getting up early to get everyone going in the morning, and doing it all over again.
> 
> If this isn't your situation, maybe you do have a right to be upset. But if she is doing anything near what I just described, by all means, yes, she needs a week 'off' to decompress and just be herself - for once.


This.

When I was married to the ex I had asked him for years to take the kids for a few hours on a Saturday morning so I could get some sanity time. He did it maybe 3 times over 4 years. In the end I divorced him, this was part of the issue. 

Most men have no real idea how stressful being a mum is. Yes I know men work hard etc but there is nothing as demanding as having to give yourself over to other people 24/7. Even with a husband that worked hard and helped around the house I was still completely drained.

As for the guys here that immediately scream "she wants to cheat" seriously, stop and get a grip.


----------



## Anon Pink

WyshIknew said:


> We've done this for ages.
> 
> I go away for a week with my friends fishing and drinking.
> 
> I send the wife off to London for a long weekend with her mum and friends and she goes shopping, theatre etc. *Tried it once with her and almost lost the will to live after the 10th shop.*
> 
> I think we are luckier than many Americans as we get more holiday (vacation) days. I get a minimum of 38 days a year.


What were you thinking?


----------



## Horizon

It depends how secure you are in the relationship. As soon as you ask the questions about whether it is fair or state there other priorities it seems to me there are deeper issues. Therefore it becomes a red flag.

The best thing to do is also the hardest thing to do - tell her how you feel.

My WS is constantly tired. Every now and then, for years, I would disappear with our children for the day. She would spend the whole day in bed, decompressing or whatever.

I found out 8 months ago that she had an affair which lasted for approx 12 months. Naturally I wondered what she may have done during those days but I know that in fact she was chilling. The affair happened during the week on work time and only once on a weekend for a few hours.

Get to the bottom of what is really eating away at you and let her know. Personally I don't go in for separate breaks, never had one and it wouldn't happen anyway given what I now know. (Overseas business trips aside that is - she just left for 5 days in SE Asia)


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## jdd

*Re: Re: Wife wants to vacation by herself...*



Anon Pink said:


> What were you thinking?


Whats wrong with shopping?


----------



## Giro flee

WyshIknew said:


> We've done this for ages.
> 
> I go away for a week with my friends fishing and drinking.
> 
> I send the wife off to London for a long weekend with her mum and friends and she goes shopping, theatre etc. Tried it once with her and almost lost the will to live after the 10th shop.
> 
> I think we are luckier than many Americans as we get more holiday (vacation) days. I get a minimum of 38 days a year.


38 days! Wow! H is allowed 15 days per year, but it is severely recommended to not actually take that much time off. H usually takes a few four day weekends and maybe one week off per year.


----------



## ConanHub

I was pinpointing the lack of consideration and communication from the op.

This is not apparently the norm in their family as it seems to be with many couples represented here.

To those not seeing this, ask yourself if your SO suddenly told you with no previous discussion, that they were going to do something by themselves that neither of you had previously agreed to.

I think most of you would feel something similar to OP.

I am talking about the lack of communication and regard for your spouses feelings.

I am certainly not going down the infidelity trail on this one, not enough info.

I am also not saying alone time for some couples, is working for them, but it sounds like with those that do, it is agreed upon.

There was no discussion or agreement in this situation. OP wife took that part away from him.
That is the problem I see. Maybe OP can get this cleared up with some real conversation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chillymorn

Anon Pink said:


> When your nature is to nurture and give care, it doesn't ever turn off. My husband doesn't get it either. He doesn't see that no matter what is happening, the kids come to me. Hell the even come to me when they need car advice which is the most bizarre thing since I don't know a thing about cars! Kids go to mom! Mom makes sure the kids are fed, and content, and safe, and behaving, and dressed, and engaged in appropriate activities... There is no turn off switch!
> 
> I would love a week on the beech by myself! Books, waiters bringing coffee and frozen drinks in the afternoon, jumping in the water when I want, not bothering to look around to spot the kids...just me, some books, a bathing suit, of coffee pot... That is the life!


jus because this is the dynamics in your marriage doesn't mean thats the way it is in all marriages/families.

its the exact oppisite in my house.

and while I agree that most people would like to have a week to themselves. The question is would you want it if you couldn't reallt afford it? and how could you say your were more nurturing if you spend money that could be used by the whole family just on yourself espically if you really couldn't afford it?


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## Holland

15 days a year wow that is terrible. In Aussie the minimum annual leave is 4 weeks plus a lot of public holidays and then sick leave.


----------



## chillymorn

Holland said:


> 15 days a year wow that is terrible. In Aussie the minimum annual leave is 4 weeks plus a lot of public holidays and then sick leave.


across the board for everybody as a law?

or just where you work?

in america we still have guns!


----------



## COGypsy

Giro flee said:


> 38 days! Wow! H is allowed 15 days per year, but it is severely recommended to not actually take that much time off. H usually takes a few four day weekends and maybe one week off per year.


I think it's more the culture of taking the vacation that exists overseas. I get 22 days of vacation and 15 sick days per year. I've been at my university so long that every year I have to make a dedicated effort to use enough vacation just to keep from losing any hours over the maximum carry forward. Last time I calculated it, I think I determined that I could be sick for something like 6 months before my sick leave would be exhausted.

So it's not so much the difference in days we get, it's the idea that we're entitled to use them. And it's silly really. I mean leave is part of the compensation package and I certainly don't tell the system to just hold on to part of my paycheck, I don't need to use it!


----------



## samyeagar

Holland said:


> This.
> 
> When I was married to the ex I had asked him for years to take the kids for a few hours on a Saturday morning so I could get some sanity time. He did it maybe 3 times over 4 years. In the end I divorced him, this was part of the issue.
> 
> Most men have no real idea how stressful being a mum is. Yes I know men work hard etc but there is nothing as demanding as *having to give yourself over to other people 24/7*. Even with a husband that worked hard and helped around the house I was still completely drained.
> 
> As for the guys here that immediately scream "she wants to cheat" seriously, stop and get a grip.


I have the utmost respect for you Holland, and I know no disrespect was intended, but I really, really hate it when people say this. I understand the stress of being a mom because I've heard it over and over, but a good attached father and husband like I was, and I know I'm not the only one, can claim just as much right the the whole 24/7 thing. 

When I was married, my ex wife was a SAHM. Yes I get to go to work during the day, and get to come home at night after work, but it was not coming home to relax or anything else. It was just me putting on a different work uniform, and starting my second job.

I do know my views on this are a bit jaded because of how my marriage was, but boy, a NPD SAHM...horrible combination.


----------



## Holland

That is across the board, by law. Minimum of 4 weeks for every 12 months work for standard employees and 5 weeks for shift workers.
Plus public holidays, sick leave, parental leave. 
Compulsory Superannuation at 9%, going up to 12% soon if not already.

In Australia only the farmers, cops and low lifes have guns.


----------



## WyshIknew

Anon Pink said:


> What were you thinking?


IKR.

Don't get me wrong, I love hols with Mrs Wysh but this is usually November/ early December and half the reason is to just go and shop for Christmas.

It's just not the same with a man for her, I just can't bring myself to ohhh and ahhh over her latest bargain.

I'd buy everything I wanted in the first two shops then hit the pub.

She has more fun with her friends and mum than with me.

Same as it would not be the same if Mrs Wysh came on my fishing week with me.


----------



## Holland

samyeagar said:


> I have the utmost respect for you Holland, and I know no disrespect was intended, but I really, really hate it when people say this. I understand the stress of being a mom because I've heard it over and over, but a good attached father and husband like I was, and I know I'm not the only one, can claim just as much right the the whole 24/7 thing.
> 
> When I was married, my ex wife was a SAHM. Yes I get to go to work during the day, and get to come home at night after work, but it was not coming home to relax or anything else. It was just me putting on a different work uniform, and starting my second job.
> 
> I do know my views on this are a bit jaded because of how my marriage was, but boy, a NPD SAHM...horrible combination.


I hear what you are saying. Firstly everything is a generality, there are no fixed rules in any of this. But generally it is the mum that is doing a 24/7 job. Even as a divorced parent that does 50/50 shared care with the ex, I STILL do more parenting than him. He is a good, hands on dad but I am the one they come to for help, I am the one that takes them to the dentists etc. I am the one they confide in.

We can go back and forth all day on this topic and no one will be right or wrong. Just saying that it might be prudent to some men to stop for a second and consider what it is like to give your self over completely 24/7. It is draining in a way that does not compare to paid work. I was high up in the corporate world and have run my own businesses, nothing is as draining and demanding as being a mum, it starts from pregnancy to breast feeding then as they grow they suck the life out of you. Taking a week off to lie on the beach would be pure bliss.

But yes I know men work hard, I know they deserve a break as well. This isn't a competition, the OP has been told his wife is going c0ck shopping when it is possible she is just so exhausted she needs a break.
I have never said a woman needs a break more than a man, I'm the last that would say this. All I am saying is that perhaps this particular woman needs some serious down time and IF that is what is going on then her husband would be wise to listen to her and support her.

As for your situation Sam, you have my full sympathy. Mr H's ex has a list of mental health issues and has not worked for over a decade. He would get home from a stressful day at work then cook and clean. My heart feels heavy for him when we talk about his past life.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Sooo,
Lets apply a little logic here.

What if she was a single parent, what would she have done , just dumped the kids on the dad for a week with prior notice or arrangements and fly off to Florida?

Or communicate with him before, make proper arrangements _then_ fly off to Florida?

I think that's the issue here.

Lets flip the roles around.

You are married with kids and your husband insists on taking a vacation for himself even though the budget doesn't allow it, because he feels stressed at work or whatever.
What would you do?
Wouldn't that raise a red flag in your mind that something is wrong?


If it doesn't then sorry,
You don't have a marriage.
Try getting " a grip" on _that_ reality.


----------



## samyeagar

Holland said:


> I hear what you are saying. Firstly everything is a generality, there are no fixed rules in any of this. But generally it is the mum that is doing a 24/7 job. Even as a divorced parent that does 50/50 shared care with the ex, I STILL do more parenting than him. He is a good, hands on dad but I am the one they come to for help, I am the one that takes them to the dentists etc. I am the one they confide in.
> 
> We can go back and forth all day on this topic and no one will be right or wrong. Just saying that it might be prudent to some men to stop for a second and consider what it is like to give your self over completely 24/7. It is draining in a way that does not compare to paid work. I was high up in the corporate world and have run my own businesses, nothing is as draining and demanding as being a mum, it starts from pregnancy to breast feeding then as they grow they suck the life out of you. Taking a week off to lie on the beach would be pure bliss.
> 
> But yes I know men work hard, I know they deserve a break as well. This isn't a competition, the OP has been told his wife is going c0ck shopping when it is possible she is just so exhausted she needs a break.
> I have never said a woman needs a break more than a man, I'm the last that would say this. All I am saying is that perhaps this particular woman needs some serious down time and IF that is what is going on then her husband would be wise to listen to her and support her.
> 
> As for your situation Sam, you have my full sympathy. Mr H's ex has a list of mental health issues and has not worked for over a decade. He would get home from a stressful day at work then cook and clean. My heart feels heavy for him when we talk about his past life.


You really are a class act Mrs. H. Our situations keep on with the similarities.

The thing with being the working dad in the SAHM scenario, a lot of the mundane things, planning, Dr. visits, all those things do fall on the shoulders of the SAHM and I have no doubt's that it can get hair pullingly stressful a lot of the time. The flip side to that though is that if the working dad screws anything up at work, the entire way of life the family has built and grown around comes crashing down, and that is a lot of stress to be under each and every day, and that is just as 24/7 stress as anything else.

Hell, there were times I would get home from work, and take the kids out to the grocery store just so I could destress and not have to think about the budget cuts at work. At least that way I didn't have to deal with my ex wife.

I do agree with you that jumping to the cheating possibility in the case of the OP is a bit premature, but like others have said, with this so apparantly out of the blue, it seems there may be more going on here, that maybe the OP isn't aware of.


----------



## tom67

ConanHub said:


> I was pinpointing the lack of consideration and communication from the op.
> 
> This is not apparently the norm in their family as it seems to be with many couples represented here.
> 
> To those not seeing this, ask yourself if your SO suddenly told you with no previous discussion, that they were going to do something by themselves that neither of you had previously agreed to.
> 
> I think most of you would feel something similar to OP.
> 
> I am talking about the lack of communication and regard for your spouses feelings.
> 
> I am certainly not going down the infidelity trail on this one, not enough info.
> 
> I am also not saying alone time for some couples, is working for them, but it sounds like with those that do, it is agreed upon.
> 
> There was no discussion or agreement in this situation. OP wife took that part away from him.
> That is the problem I see. Maybe OP can get this cleared up with some real conversation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:
For her to do this out of the blue with no discussion has to be talked over with her.
Whether or not the money is tight you don't just fly off for a week it's just selfish imo.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

How much is this trip going to cost? She's staying with family so no hotel or rental or food. Laying by the beach all day is cheap. Has she really never said anything about wanting a break before? With work to do around the house, stress at her job, and 2 kids I find it hard to believe this has never come up before. 

Does she get alone time other times? Spa day, Going shopping alone, etc? Do you two go on relaxing dates that she doesn't have to plan or do work for? Do you have a big enough house that you can each have your space, like a den or craft room? Does she ever take a day off work and keep the kids in school and just relax? I would feel better about not getting away if I had those things throughout the year, it wouldn't bottle up so much until I needed to just leave for a week. 

Plus remember, this time of year is stressful. She probably just planned Christmas and big dinners. Then the kids are out of school which messes everyone up and there are relatives who can cause stress. 

She didn't just call him and say "I'm leaving tomorrow, see ya" She said "I *think* I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress" that's her starting a conversation about it.


----------



## tom67

samyeagar said:


> You really are a class act Mrs. H. Our situations keep on with the similarities.
> 
> The thing with being the working dad in the SAHM scenario, a lot of the mundane things, planning, Dr. visits, all those things do fall on the shoulders of the SAHM and I have no doubt's that it can get hair pullingly stressful a lot of the time. The flip side to that though is that if the working dad screws anything up at work, the entire way of life the family has built and grown around comes crashing down, and that is a lot of stress to be under each and every day, and that is just as 24/7 stress as anything else.
> 
> Hell, there were times I would get home from work, and take the kids out to the grocery store just so I could destress and not have to think about the budget cuts at work. At least that way I didn't have to deal with my ex wife.
> 
> I do agree with you that jumping to the cheating possibility in the case of the OP is a bit premature, but like others have said, with this so apparantly out of the blue, it seems there may be more going on here, that maybe the OP isn't aware of.


Doing some discreet investigating is reasonable if this was out of the blue, not jumping to conclusions.:iagree:


----------



## RClawson

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> :scratchhead: I must be a horrible person but I could totally see your wife's POV here. My fantasy get away from the house and kids and work dream vacation on the beach does not include complaining about flies or talking about anything non-relaxing. In fact, no talking. Just lay by the beach listening to the ocean. But that could just be me. I can also see why that vacation would be nice without the husband for the same reason. Sometimes I (and I know other Moms as well) just want everyone to leave me the hell alone, that includes talking to me. Don't even look at me. Just let me be in silence for a while


Excuse me but did you miss the part where she had been going to the ocean by herself for the 4 previous years with no objections from me and that we had not been together for any serious time alone other than an overnight in said time. Sorry but I think her attitude was for $hit.


----------



## RClawson

Oh and it remains $hitty still!


----------



## turnera

samyeagar said:


> Is the general consensus then that a husband who wants to stop attending to his wife's needs, kids' needs, families needs and take a week off by himself, is perfectly deserving as well?


If he needs it, yes.


----------



## turnera

ConanHub said:


> To those not seeing this, ask yourself if your SO suddenly told you with no previous discussion, that they were going to do something by themselves that neither of you had previously agreed to.


One thing we don't know, since OP hasn't provided much background, is whether independent decision-making is the norm in their marriage. The way he wrote that she said it raised flags to a lot of people but it may just be the way they talk about things.


----------



## samyeagar

FrenchFry said:


> *I don't know, I read the OP and the following replies and I didn't even get the sense that she has even made the arrangements to go on the trip yet, let alone any dumping and running.
> 
> He said she said (two times):
> 
> 
> 
> It's not exactly crystal clear...but it is communicating before she left. She might be hedging her words because she knows her husband isn't going to be real stoked on the idea.
> 
> It was a "weather balloon," an off the cuff statement to see how he's going to react. *
> 
> So, OP's original question at the end was:
> 
> 
> 
> and the women are answering:
> 
> because sometimes we want to get away from our family.
> 
> His wife sees an opportunity to do so...and she's seeing if she can take it.


THis was really the same feeling I got. It seemed like it could have been something more than idle musing, but way less than actual plans.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> *It's not exactly crystal clear...but it is communicating before she left. She might be hedging her words because she knows her husband isn't going to be real stoked on the idea.*


And that^^^ right there is the problem.
That type of communication is definitely not acceptable for a situation like that.
That's why red flags should pop up.

My wife travels without me every year, most times she even pays for her trips, I give her spending and accommodation money. But bet your bottom dollar she ALWAYS includes me in her plans. 

1]She gives me the addresses of the hotel and phone#
2]We go online together to have a look at the country they're visiting and the places of interests they plan to visit.
3]She asks me to drop her off at the airport and hang around with her girlfriends till they board the flight.
4]She would Skype me, and sends pics via email, two or three times daily when she's gone..
.
.
.
.
And no,
We don't even have kids.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

RClawson said:


> Excuse me but did you miss the part where she had been going to the ocean by herself for the 4 previous years with no objections from me and that we had not been together for any serious time alone other than an overnight in said time. Sorry but I think her attitude was for $hit.


I still wouldn't want complaining on my vacation, even if i did get to go once a year. Actually, getting to have a yearly vacation that was relaxing and then suddenly my husband wanted to join and annoy me while I was there would be really frustrating! It's like someone is invading my territory. If her attitude is crappy in general then it's a problem but I can relate to her vacation annoyance. "Just don't ruin it for me" would be my thought too.


----------



## Anon Pink

chillymorn said:


> jus because this is the dynamics in your marriage doesn't mean thats the way it is in all marriages/families.
> 
> its the exact oppisite in my house.
> 
> and while I agree that most people would like to have a week to themselves. The question is would you want it if you couldn't reallt afford it? and how could you say your were more nurturing if you spend money that could be used by the whole family just on yourself espically if you really couldn't afford it?


I've seen marriages where the kids go to dad as default. And it's because the dad the nurturer, the one checking in with them, going behind them, staying on top of them. I wish I could have a piece of that kind of marriage. I've made MANY posts about my husband's emotional indifference so take my comments as being particular to my sitch. 

Interesting though, how many women note that it doesn't ever turn off and how many men simply ignore that statement entirely.

But, getting back to the OP, his wife should have discussed it more with him and not assumed he would be on board. But her wanting to, or suggesting it... Totally on board with that.

She also said she was staying with relatives, so...no money except to travel there. They can't afford a family vaca, but spending a few dollars in gas might be doable.

Unless his wife is very selfish, I don't see her suggesting she take a week at the beach with her relatives unless she really needs time away.


----------



## chillymorn

Holland said:


> That is across the board, by law. Minimum of 4 weeks for every 12 months work for standard employees and 5 weeks for shift workers.
> Plus public holidays, sick leave, parental leave.
> Compulsory Superannuation at 9%, going up to 12% soon if not already.
> 
> In Australia only the farmers, cops and low lifes have guns.


so does that put farmer and cops in the low life category?

In America people who want to protect themselves from low lifes have guns.

I do like your vacation/sick,pay policies but I think I'd rather have the freedom to own guns instead.:smthumbup:


----------



## Faithful Wife

When I was married before, my ex-h used to plan a boys only ski trip once a year.

I did not do my own girls only trip every year, but I did do one once.

I was always happy for him to get away with his buddies and ski, and he was happy for me to get away with my gf.

We did know and approve of each other's friends.

The alone part in the OP's story is what makes it kinda odd to me.


----------



## richie33

I could understand wanting to get away. I would have no problem with my wife going to stay over night at say Atlantic City. I would love it myself. The thought of room service and watching a movie uninterrupted sounds great.
But I would have a problem if money was tight, my wife just telling me she was going and no discussion. We both work full time and schedule our days off so we do not need day care. So in a way we are both SAHM and SAHD. I get it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> Well, he knows where she would be. She wants to go to her aunt/uncle's house in FL.
> 
> OP didn't say when she was going, which is another reason why I think it's a trial balloon.
> 
> The rest of the details would be contingent on how OP reacts to the trial balloon. If he reacted with enthusiasm and she started being cagey and secretive, then I think there is a case for she's being dodgey.
> 
> But...she isn't there yet. I think she's still in the "oh no, my husband is going to talk me out of this," stage of planning. No need to get hopes up and talk about places to eat when you aren't even sure you are going.


I'm not saying she's being dodgy .
Like another poster alluded to ,what she's doing seems pretty out of character for her and the OP, and she could be on the border of a bout of depression or having an anxiety problems or maybe even a mental breakdown.

Anyhow we look at it ,
Something is definitely wrong and the husband should be concerned.


----------



## chillymorn

Anon Pink said:


> I've seen marriages where the kids go to dad as default. And it's because the dad the nurturer, the one checking in with them, going behind them, staying on top of them. I wish I could have a piece of that kind of marriage. I've made MANY posts about my husband's emotional indifference so take my comments as being particular to my sitch.
> 
> Interesting though, how many women note that it doesn't ever turn off and how many men simply ignore that statement entirely.
> 
> But, getting back to the OP, his wife should have discussed it more with him and not assumed he would be on board. But her wanting to, or suggesting it... Totally on board with that.
> 
> She also said she was staying with relatives, so...no money except to travel there. They can't afford a family vaca, but spending a few dollars in gas might be doable.
> 
> Unless his wife is very selfish, I don't see her suggesting she take a week at the beach with her relatives unless she really needs time away.


well in regards to it never turning off.

if you do that to your own detriment whose fault is it? I mean I seem to hear this a fair bit but I feel that if you take it upon yourself then its on you. maybe a more balanced approach would work better.

trying to think of a male equivalent.

what your saying is that us slow witted men should understand that you can't turn it off and accept that's just the way you 
are.

many men might say the same about sex. we need more sex so you should just accept it and happily put out because we have trouble turning it off.but of course that wouldn't fly .

so we compromise but where the compromise with women who can't turn it off?

I call bull.


----------



## turnera

Faithful Wife said:


> The alone part in the OP's story is what makes it kinda odd to me.


She's going with her aunt and uncle! Not alone!


----------



## Holland

chillymorn said:


> *so does that put farmer and cops in the low life category?*
> 
> In America people who want to protect themselves from low lifes have guns.
> 
> I do like your vacation/sick,pay policies but I think I'd rather have the freedom to own guns instead.:smthumbup:


No, you are trying to read something that wasn't written.

And all power to you but I'd rather have my kids grow up in a place that is not ruled by guns.


----------



## chillymorn

In my opinion its selfish. and it would be a boundary for me. 

I'm tired and stress also seems like the wife would want to spend some time with her husband instead. maybe if the husband surprise her with a nice date night all planned out would be a nice compromise.

but just out of the blue saying I think I might go on vacation for a week without you and the kids would not fly.......nope don't want to be married to that!


----------



## turnera

richie33 said:


> But I would have a problem if my wife just telling me she was going and no discussion.


That is NOT what she said. She said she was thinking about going. Actually, that is exactly the terminology I use with my husband any time I want to do something and I'm getting ready to have a discussion with him about it. "I'm thinking of joining the gym..." etc.; his insecure reaction may have cut off the rest of the conversation she was prepared to have about it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

turnera said:


> She's going with her aunt and uncle! Not alone!


Well I'm not sure on that...it sounds like her aunt and uncle living there just gives her a place to stay for free, not that she is going so she can spend time with them. The H said her main desire was to be on the beach alone...not hang out with Auntie and Uncly.


----------



## chillymorn

Holland said:


> No, you are trying to read something that wasn't written.
> 
> And all power to you but I'd rather have my kids grow up in a place that is not ruled by guns.





cool. we agree to disagree.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Holland said:


> No, you are trying to read something that wasn't written.
> 
> And all power to you but I'd rather have my kids grow up in a place that is not ruled by guns.


Holland - I'd take the vacations over the guns anyday!


----------



## melw74

finsrule said:


> I was on the phone with my wife recently when she says, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this. The family cant take a vacation right now, we cant afford it so why does she get to?
> 
> She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go. I get that.
> 
> This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.
> 
> I am having a hard time with this, I would never ever even think about taking a vacation without her. I can't imagine anyone telling (not asking) their spouse that they are going to go away for a week by themselves.
> 
> The other thing is that money is tight, we need a lot of work done to our house, and have other expenses with more priority than a vacation.
> 
> The money part doesn't bother me so much as her not considering me. Again, I know she would say she didn't consider me or the kids because she didn't think it would be possible for even just the 2 of us, that her alone is the only possibility. Even if that were the case, I still can't wrap my head around her wanting to take a vacation by herself.
> 
> Am I wrong? Am I blowing this out of proportion? Why would a wife or husband want to go away by themselves, unless they wanted to get away from their family?
> 
> Very confused and quite honesty, a little hurt.


I would never dream of going on holiday on my own and leaving my husband and children, to be honest i really would not want to either.

I think a holiday is a family thing, If your married, or you have a family.

Christmas, and our annual holiday are main 2 things a year for us, if my husband said he wanted to holiday alone, I would be devastated.

Your not being unreasonable, your wife is.

I do not know about anybody else, but i think holidays are expensive, we can just about afford to go every year as well.

You said shes stressed, well i think you could say that about most the population, christmas has just gone, people are skint, they have to go back to work, children back at school, And its back to norm, but that is just the way it is.

I think you have a right to be hurt.


----------



## ChargingCharlie

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

finsrule said:


> Why by herself? Why not ask if it was possible the 2 of us could go?


 That is the real question here. Why does she not want you to go? There is no practical reason for you not to go with her. At 10 and 17 your children are old enough to leave them with friends or relatives for the week, and as a couple sleeping in the same bed, having both of you is pretty much the same to her aunt and uncle as having only her stay over.

Find out if she already spoke to her aunt or uncle about this before she told you. If she has then that would increase the odds that something is up, perhaps with another man. Does she have a new online opposite sex friend (OSF) that lives near her aunt and uncle? Does she have an old boyfriend, or guy she knew in high school that lives near there? Even if she does not have a specific person that she is meeting there, she could be planning on putting herself in a position to meet someone once there, check her browser history to see if she is looking up clubs near her aunt and uncle. You need to dig a bit more without tipping your hand. 

If you do not like the way that this feels, trust your gut and take a stand against this trip. The paradox of taking a stand that protects your marraige, is that by stopping them from doing something that could tempt them to cheat, they will not cheat, and you will therefor not have evidence that they cheated to support your reasoning for stopping them from doing the risky action. This means that you will have little to say in your defense when they call you jealous and controlling.


----------



## MattMatt

She'll be with aunt and uncle. Of course she will!

But...

Isn't it *lucky* that only she is stressed at work?

Isn't it *lucky* her husband doesn't need decompression time?

Isn't it *lucky* that she can say: "F..k you and those damn kids!"?

There's something odd at play, here.:scratchhead:


----------



## lifeistooshort

MattMatt said:


> She'll be with aunt and uncle. Of course she will!
> 
> But...
> 
> Isn't it *lucky* that only she is stressed at work?
> 
> Isn't it *lucky* her husband doesn't need decompression time?
> 
> Isn't it *lucky* that she can say: "F..k you and those damn kids!"?
> 
> There's something odd at play, here.:scratchhead:


What's stopping him from getting his own decompression time? There's something odd, because she wants some time away? Has she said "f$ck you and those damn kids"? When i went to visit my sister by myself for 5 days was i really saying "f!ck you and those damn kids"? My hb didn't seem to think so.
So does this mean if he's stressed and miserable then damn it she will be too? She's not exactly leaving him with toddlers, they don't need that much. Is she blowing the family savings to do this? So anyone women want some time alone there must be something odd going on? I really don't get all the hysteria here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt

lifeistooshort said:


> What's stopping him from getting his own decompression time? There's something odd, because she wants some time away? Has she said "f$ck you and those damn kids"? When i went to visit my sister by myself for 5 days was i really saying "f!ck you and those damn kids"? My hb didn't seem to think so.
> So does this mean if he's stressed and miserable then damn it she will be too? She's not exactly leaving him with toddlers, they don't need that much. Is she blowing the family savings to do this? So anyone women want some time alone there must be something odd going on? I really don't get all the hysteria here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They do not have enough money for a holiday for all of the family.

So one member of the family says: "f..k you all, *I* am having a holiday."

Nice!


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Entered thread expecting to see sistahood justifying and rationalizing the woman's behaviour.

And was not disappointed.

Can anyone even imagine a Husband & Father just informing his wife, without any consideration for her at all "Regardless of what you think about it, I'm considering going away for a week on a nice beach holiday to California on my own, even though there money is tight"

LOL!



RCLawson said:


> "don't ruin this time for *me*"


wow. just, wow...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Entered thread expecting to see sistahood justifying and rationalizing the woman's behaviour.
> 
> And was not disappointed.
> 
> Can anyone even imagine a Husband & Father just informing his wife, without any consideration for her at all "Regardless of what you think about it, I'm considering going away for a week on a nice beach holiday to California on my own, even though there money is tight"
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> wow. just, wow...


If he said "I'm thinking about asking my Uncle if I can go visit for a while, I just want to sit and go fishing and relax. I'm really stressed at work" We would talk about it and I would be fine with it. Where did the wife say "regardless of what you think about it...."? I have heard of many men who go out and have boys night, hunting trip, fishing trip, or go see family alone. Why can't women do the same? Because the second we leave the house we're saying F-you to our kids and husband?


----------



## Holland

I have never had a problem with a partner having the time out they need. Mr H goes camping, it is his de stress place, he needs it.

This place can be so skewed, IRL people take time out without there being any suspicious reason.


----------



## ReGroup

OP's situation is HIS situation.

He has a problem with her taking a vacation when there are more important things to take care of.
He also has issues that he wasn't included.

I think he needs to address this immediately with his spouse. 

She is starting a precedence that you are uncomfortable with - let it be known or it will create resentment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## frusdil

chillymorn said:


> across the board for everybody as a law?
> 
> or just where you work?
> 
> in america we still have guns!


Chillymorn I'm an Aussie too, and those holidays listed are the legal minimum for every working Aussie.

We get 4 weeks holiday, 12 paid public holidays, and 10 days sick leave.

Boo yah!!


----------



## frusdil

I can't see anything wrong with her going to stay with rellies for a week on her own. 

I do think though, she should have discussed it with her husband as opposed to telling him "this is what I'm doing". 

I also thought the children are 7 and 10 years old? OP could you please clarify or did I misread that?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

OK so if she's uncomfortable with never having a break and has problems with being so stressed out at work and home, what then? What's the compromise? Why not let her go on this one and he can take some time later? 
If she's never given him a reason not to to trust her then she shouldn't be treated like a cheater. IF trust was broken then I could understand the problem. IF she was often going out without her family and he just wanted her to stay home this time until things settled down, I could see the problem. I just don't get why her *thinking* about seeing if she could relax at her Aunt's house is such a big deal. If this is the first time in 17 years that she will have alone time I say she deserves it! And so does he, so why doesn't he start planning something just as low cost for himself?


----------



## RClawson

The Cro-Magnon said:


> Entered thread expecting to see sistahood justifying and rationalizing the woman's behaviour.
> 
> And was not disappointed.
> 
> Can anyone even imagine a Husband & Father just informing his wife, without any consideration for her at all "Regardless of what you think about it, I'm considering going away for a week on a nice beach holiday to California on my own, even though there money is tight"
> 
> LOL!
> 
> 
> wow. just, wow...


And it took a Cro Magnon Man to get finally get it.


----------



## RClawson

And I am sorry but there was a 5 year stretch with my girls when they were pre teens that I took them on a week vacation by myself every year. Loved it. Never witched and moaned about it so my wife could decompress. 

I stand by my first post. I do not believe this is a good thing for right now in their marriage. I think there is more to this story and would not be surprised in there was something rotten in Denmark.


----------



## Theseus

Quite frankly, I lose a lot of faith in TAM when I not only see quotes like the ones below, which range from unhelpful to downright offensive, *but also see many respected members of TAM "liking" this trash talk*.



Anuvia said:


> She's going to be trolling for new C0ck. She wants to be single for that week. You'd be an idiot to let her go by herself.


Not only is this response so over the top, but maybe you missed the part where she's staying with an Aunt and Uncle, so it's very unlikely she's going to have frat boys over every night. I'm sorry if something like this happened to you, but projecting your wayward spouse on to every other woman out there is both unfair and unrealistic.



LoveLonely said:


> I'd "let" her take the vacation. Why? Because she wants to. ... I just wouldn't be home when she got back.


So taking a vacation solo should be punishable by divorce?

A wife wants to go on a short vacation by herself. It's not something to freak out about and it's not a big deal. And yes, husbands should be allowed to do it sometimes too. Someone mentioned doing this because she is introverted. That is a key difference. Not everyone is an extrovert and needs their SO around them every single day of the year! In fact, it might not be healthy to. And there's nothing morally wrong with feeling that way, even in a strong marriage. 

Good gravy, some of you have views of marriage that have been out of date for at least 300 years. This sounds like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women cannot leave the country or travel anywhere without a close male relative with them at all times!!! Is that seriously what TAM is all about?


----------



## Holland

RClawson said:


> And it took a Cro Magnon Man to get finally get it.


Very few here have actually got it, seems many read into the OP things that were not there. His wife is "thinking" of taking a break, she didn't just tell him and take off.


----------



## RClawson

Holland said:


> Very few here have actually got it, seems many read into the OP things that were not there. His wife is "thinking" of taking a break, she didn't just tell him and take off.


Actually Cro Magnon was commenting on my post and I was responding to his. Try to keep up. I believe I have a strong grip on the OP's concern because I have lived it. Other than that thanks for the input.


----------



## Vega

Holland said:


> Very few here have actually got it, seems many read into the OP things that were not there. His wife is "thinking" of taking a break, she didn't just tell him and take off.


YES!!! It seems like she was _trying_ to include him in her thought process. The OP also doesn't tell us what HIS response was to her thought process. I'm sure he didn't just stand there with the deer-caught-in-the-headlights look in his eyes and say NOTHING at all...

I get the impression that she's looking at this potential time away as something necessary for her own _mental health_, and NOT as some fun-filled "vacation". After all, vacations often mean _activity_; with things to "do". She doesn't seem like she's looking to "do" ANYTHING, except relax on a beach. She may not be wanting to feel obligated to TALK to anyone...or LISTEN to anyone...to DO anything or GO anywhere. 

The OP seems upset that she would consider doing this alone; WITHOUT *HIM*. But being married doesn't mean being 'glued' together 24/7/365. It doesn't mean that a couple should spend ALL of their 'free' time _together_. In fact, there's a fine line between _healthy_ togetherness and *un*healthy _enmeshment_! 

Marriage involves two _separate_ people with _separate_ physiologies..._separate_ tastes..._separate_ likes..._separate_ dislikes... _separate_ ways of coping with stress and _separate_ _*needs*_. While one person may be able to sleep next to a jackhammer, the other person might wake up to the sound of a pin dropping 15 feet away. And the light sleeper might *need* to wear earplugs while sleeping. But if the light sleeper needs earplugs, it doesn't mean (s)he's "tuning out" his or her spouse. Hopefully, his or her spouse is secure and enlightened enough to understand that...and not take the need to use earplugs 'personally'. 

And the same principle applies to needing alone time, relaxing on a beach. 

Sometimes the best gift a spouse can 'grant' another spouse is time...alone. No distractions.

Vega


----------



## TRy

Holland said:


> Very few here have actually got it, seems many read into the OP things that were not there. His wife is "thinking" of taking a break, she didn't just tell him and take off.


 When you put something in quotes, it means that is what they exactly said. Although you quote the word "thinking", she actually said "think". The specific quote of the wife by the OP was "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress". Saying that "I think I am going to" do something, followed by an "I need" to justify it, is not the same as I am "thinking" of doing something and asking for input. Based on what the OP actually said, the wife was not asking for the husband's input, and for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TRy said:


> When you put something in quotes, it means that is what they exactly said. Although you quote the word "thinking", she actually said "think". *The specific quote of the wife by the OP was "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress". Saying that "I think I am going to" do something, followed by an "I need" to justify it, is not the same as I am "thinking" of doing something and asking for input. Based on what the OP actually said, the wife was not asking for the husband's input,* and for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.


:iagree:

I've read that opening paragraph in the OP numerous times and didn't get that she was either just venting or seeking the husband's input.
Worse yet , the conversation happened over the phone.
And that's why he's feeling hurt and confused IMO.
To me , that type of communication dynamic and implying that he failed to somewhat " read her mind " or her intent is what takes marriage back 300 years.

Also people need to stop imputing the SAHM dynamic into this situation because it simply doesn't exist. OP clearly said his wife is working and she's having a stressful time at work.
He never said or even implied that she was having a hard time at home either , the kids are grown.

The Don Quixote syndrome seems to be alive and well on this thread so the OP looks like a windmill.

What I got from the OP is that he is questioning given that they are both stressed and can't really afford a vacation , although he is willing to sacrifice if she includes him, why does she think she's entitled to a vacation now , and why does she think she's entitled to this vacation alone , without him.

So it comes down to one question.

Given the family's financial situation, what gives her the right to go and he isn't afforded the same right, given the fact that they both want vacations , and he is quite willing to go with her.


----------



## chillymorn

frusdil said:


> Chillymorn I'm an Aussie too, and those holidays listed are the legal minimum for every working Aussie.
> 
> We get 4 weeks holiday, 12 paid public holidays, and 10 days sick leave.
> 
> Boo yah!!







yea but no Obama care!!!!!


----------



## chillymorn

Theseus said:


> Quite frankly, I lose a lot of faith in TAM when I not only see quotes like the ones below, which range from unhelpful to downright offensive, *but also see many respected members of TAM "liking" this trash talk*.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only is this response so over the top, but maybe you missed the part where she's staying with an Aunt and Uncle, so it's very unlikely she's going to have frat boys over every night. I'm sorry if something like this happened to you, but projecting your wayward spouse on to every other woman out there is both unfair and unrealistic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So taking a vacation solo should be punishable by divorce?
> 
> A wife wants to go on a short vacation by herself. It's not something to freak out about and it's not a big deal. And yes, husbands should be allowed to do it sometimes too. Someone mentioned doing this because she is introverted. That is a key difference. Not everyone is an extrovert and needs their SO around them every single day of the year! In fact, it might not be healthy to. And there's nothing morally wrong with feeling that way, even in a strong marriage.
> 
> Good gravy, some of you have views of marriage that have been out of date for at least 300 years. This sounds like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women cannot leave the country or travel anywhere without a close male relative with them at all times!!! Is that seriously what TAM is all about?


are you saying if your wife never went on vacation by herself. and all of a sudden she said was thinking about going on vacation with her uncle and aunt. when money was tight no less you would not be a little suspicious?


:scratchhead: ok


----------



## alexm

chillymorn said:


> are you saying if your wife never went on vacation by herself. and all of a sudden she said was thinking about going on vacation with her uncle and aunt. when money was tight no less you would not be a little suspicious?
> 
> 
> :scratchhead: ok


Honestly, *I* wouldn't, because I don't make the types of assumptions others here apparently do.

Look, I had a ww, too. In hindsight, I did not view the warning signs as I should have, and I learned from it. BUT, it did not turn me into a paranoid man, thinking something must be up every time my current wife does or says something out of character.

My radar wasn't up AT ALL with my ex wife. Now it functions, but it's not so sensitive that it goes off every 2 days.

I strongly believe that some people get hit hard, and they project this onto everybody else that comes here with even slightly similar q's.

I don't believe that what you're saying is wrong, per se. But I don't think that this is what the OP is (or should) be worrying about. We've taken a thread based upon a spouse wanting to decompress, on her own, during a time of financial stress, and turned it into a possible cheating scenario.

If the OP even had the slightest concern about cheating, this would have been posted in a different forum here on TAM, but it's here in General Relationship Discussion.

The issue I have with this, and other threads that (d)evolve into possible cheating, is that it's a projection of some people's past experiences into other peoples lives.

Is it possible? Sure. Is this what the thread was about by OP? It doesn't seem like it.

He's already unsure of the situation as it is, and he gave no indication (unless I missed it) that he's concerned about cheating. All this talk may very well have now made him paranoid, and added another level to his original concern. That's not helpful in the slightest.

I love this place, most of the advice is good, including when and where to look for cheating spouses - if that's what the poster is looking for.

However, there's a time and a place to bring forth our own personal backstories.

All too often on here, those of us who have been burned by ws's seem to feel the need to connect with someone who is in the same shoes, and that is fine. I have my share of posts that detail how somebody's issue is a lot like my own. I would like to think that none of us here WISH this upon anybody else, but it's clear some people DO project their own (justified) paranoia on others from time to time. Perhaps it's a subconscious need to add more people to this club of ours. If that's what you need, then at least wait until the facts are out, instead of fishing around for it.

The sad truth is that if OP comes back in 2 months, and says his wife cheated on him while in Florida, this will justify the few who have posted here about that potentially happening. But this thread is not about that - yet, or ever. Therefore the responses and advice should be given out accordingly, NOT a "what-if" scenario based upon your own unfortunate pasts and EXTREMELY limited info from OP.

Point is, if OP said she had cheated on him previously, or that she has an old bf in Florida, or anything else along those lines, then fine, let the paranoia fly. But he's (so far) given no indication that he's concerned about that, or anything else but the fact his wife wants to chill out without him or the kids, during a time of no money. THAT'S his issue (now), and that's what the responses should stay at.

If I paid money to see a therapist/counsellor about this subject, and their response was "she's looking for ****" based on the little information OP provided, I'd get up, turn around, and walk out.

Most of us here are not therapists, but none of us should ever, ever, ever, jump to those conclusions so quickly with so little information to people we don't know, and if you ask me, unless the OP, or anyone else, mentions suspicions about this sort of thing, it shouldn't even be brought up unless it's painfully obvious. In this case, it isn't AT ALL.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

alexm said:


> The sad truth is that if OP comes back in 2 months, and says his wife cheated on him while in Florida, this will justify the few who have posted here about that potentially happening. But this thread is not about that - yet, or ever. Therefore the responses and advice should be given out accordingly, NOT a "what-if" scenario based upon your own unfortunate pasts.



"Projection" LOL ever heard of the cheater's script, ever heard of "red flags"? 
They are called "red flags" because you are not supposed to ignore them, and it's called "the script" because the same thing happens over and over, and in such a similar way that others can see the boring, predictable patterns and call it.

Read Caribbean Man's posts again.

"Sadly, even if everyone was right and she was cheating, it still doesn't mean the people who called it are right, they are still jaded and projecting, even though they were right"
LOLWUT?

At the end of the day, OP's gut instinct is telling him something is off. In HIS relationship & situation, her sudden, inconsiderate statement is incongruous with the patterns he has come to know of her, her behaviour, their marriage, etc, and it is never wise to ignore the gut.


----------



## alexm

The Cro-Magnon said:


> "Sadly, even if everyone was right and she was cheating, it still doesn't mean the people who called it are right, they are still jaded and projecting, even though they were right"
> LOLWUT?
> 
> *Who said that? Wasn't me.*
> 
> At the end of the day, OP's gut instinct is telling him something is off. In HIS relationship & situation, her sudden, inconsiderate statement is incongruous with the patterns he has come to know of her, her behaviour, their marriage, etc, and it is never wise to ignore the gut.
> 
> *How dare somebody say or do something they've never said or done before!
> 
> They are not OP's gut instincts. They are yours, and others. And this is my point.
> 
> He did NOT come here saying "I think my wife might want to go away by herself to cheat on me". He DID say he was troubled that his wife wanted to go somewhere and chill out on her own, while he stays at home with the kids. And just as importantly, that they don't have the funds at the moment.
> 
> His question is basically whether he's making a mountain out of a molehill.
> 
> The general consensus among WOMEN (and some men) here, is that it's not a completely ludicrous request/fantasy.
> 
> The general consensus among men who don't trust women anymore, is that she's likely up to something.
> 
> What I am reading from OP's original post is that he does not fall into the "take off alone without your spouse" type of trip, whereas she is totally okay with it, and he's asking other people here if this is something he should "let" her do. He is not asking whether he should be concerned with what his wife may DO while on said vacation. What others are reading are "she's a **** hungry cheating *****" and that he should be checking her email, Facebook, voicemail, phone records, and leaving a recording device in her car.*


----------



## Vega

The OP's MAIN concern is that she's THINKING about going away _WITHOUT_ *HIM*; that she's THINKING about going BY *HERSELF* to decompress. 

The thing is that the OP HASN'T EVEN ASKED HER WHY she'd want to go away by herself, and he--along with many of the other posters--is only _speculating_. 

As he clearly stated in his OP, 



> The money part doesn't bother me so much as her not considering me
> 
> I still can't wrap my head around her wanting to take a vacation by herself.


Some couples take separate vacations from time to time. There's nothing "wrong" with it. There is no set "standard" that everyone agrees on, otherwise, either EVERY couple would take separate vacations, or NO couple would do so. And since there IS no "standard", it surprises me how many people are willing to refer to the OP's wife as "selfish" or "inconsiderate". The OP already stated that the money part "doesn't bother him". 

Seems that the ONLY issue on the table is WHY the OP's wife wants/needs some down time away from her family. 

I only hope the OP ASKS her (without being accusatory or suspicious) and really listens for the answer, with an open mind. 

Vega


----------



## ConanHub

alexm...

All I am advocating is that OP have a real conversation with his wife. There are many posters that simply think there is a problem because this is out of the norm for OPs family and he is unhappy about how things are going down.

I agree that jumping the gun about infidelity is not an angle I would be pursuing yet, but I appreciate reading everyone's input on this. There is a wealth of points of view on TAM and your take on this situation is just as important as another point of view.

There are moderators for when things get out of hand, otherwise, let the opinions flow! That is what I love about TAM is all the various points of view.

Your point is no more important than the poster who jumped to warning of infidelity, or any point of view in between.

Have a discussion about disagreements but don't try and shame someone out of their point of view. 

TAM rocks because of the varying view points on every subject!


----------



## Gomerpyle

This is a week staying with her own family, not a week at the Hilton Maldivi with her tennis pro.


----------



## alexm

ConanHub said:


> alexm...
> 
> All I am advocating is that OP have a real conversation with his wife. There are many posters that simply think there is a problem because this is out of the norm for OPs family and he is unhappy about how things are going down.
> 
> *Absolutely. That is the best advice he can get here!*
> 
> I agree that jumping the gun about infidelity is not an angle I would be pursuing yet, but I appreciate reading everyone's input on this. There is a wealth of points of view on TAM and your take on this situation is just as important as another point of view.
> 
> *So do I, honestly. Whether I agree with them, or not.*
> 
> There are moderators for when things get out of hand, otherwise, let the opinions flow! That is what I love about TAM is all the various points of view.
> 
> Your point is no more important than the poster who jumped to warning of infidelity, or any point of view in between.
> 
> Have a discussion about disagreements but don't try and shame someone out of their point of view.
> 
> *I really don't think I did this, however if I did, I apologize, honestly.
> 
> I do still have a problem with things like "she's looking for ****", right off the bat, though... MY opinion (not necessarily shared with others) is that the person who posted that should be spoken to in private by a mod, if they haven't already. That is not advice. THAT was a projection of someone's past anger and issues coming out in a post that has nothing to do with that. (yet... it still could...)
> 
> Warning of infidelity is one thing. As I said, I don't discount the possibility. It may, in fact, be exactly the case here, but...
> 
> We don't know. Therefore we can't make statements. And again, that is not what the OP was concerned about, or if he was, it wasn't worded that way. We have no right to take what he wrote and twist it into ours, which has happened. He could come back and say "that's exactly what I'm asking, if she's cheating on me". But he hasn't, and the original wording had nothing to do with that.
> 
> I take issue with the wording of some of these responses, not necessarily the message. They are coming across as "she IS" or "she WILL", rather than "it's a possibility."*
> 
> TAM rocks because of the varying view points on every subject!
> 
> *That's why I stuck around this time! I was here 5-6 years ago when going through a bad situation. Resolved it, didn't come back until I was soon to be married again, and stayed this time, because of the wealth of information and interesting viewpoints.
> 
> I am merely debating and speaking my mind, that's all *


----------



## MattMatt

Is she cheating? Probably not.

Is she placing her needs above and beyond the needs of her husband and children? Perhaps so.

And that issue, IMO, needs to be addressed.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

TRy said:


> When you put something in quotes, it means that is what they exactly said. Although you quote the word "thinking", she actually said "think". The specific quote of the wife by the OP was "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress". Saying that "I think I am going to" do something, followed by an "I need" to justify it, is not the same as I am "thinking" of doing something and asking for input. Based on what the OP actually said, the wife was not asking for the husband's input, and for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.


TRy, don't even bother. The wife could have said she was going on holiday without him, and taking a bloke from her work with her to boot, and the sistahood would still find a way to rationalize it "What, isn't she allowed to have friends, what's wrong with you, you insecure jealous control freak"

And when she came home and admitted porking him, it would still be OP's fault "you DROVE her into his arms, she just needed time alone and a friend, and you hounded her with your neediness, and forced her to turn to him" 

It's all a big laugh really.

In the next week/month/etc, there will be more threads, where women do whatever they want, follow their tingles wherever they lead no matter what damage or hurt it causes, and as sure as the sun rises and sets, the sistahood will be there to rationalize and defend their right to just do so.

Ho hum.


----------



## Theseus

chillymorn said:


> are you saying if your wife never went on vacation by herself. and all of a sudden she said was thinking about going on vacation with her uncle and aunt. when money was tight no less you would not be a little suspicious?
> 
> 
> :scratchhead: ok



No, I wouldn't be suspicious. 

1. If she had never gone on vacation by herself before, I would say: "it's about time"! Solo getaways are perfectly normal and there's nothing wrong with them. 

2. Staying with her aunt and uncle doesn't sound like a week of orgies to me. 

3. If she is going to cheat, then she is going to cheat anyway. Even if I was suspicious, are you seriously saying I should have to control her travel in order to keep her faithful? *If I have to keep her faithful by force, then the marriage is already over*. 

4. The money being tight is the only real problem I see here. But it depends how tight exactly? One person traveling to a relative's house isn't going to cost that much, unless she's flying to another continent.


----------



## Theseus

The Cro-Magnon said:


> "Projection" LOL ever heard of the cheater's script, ever heard of "red flags"?


The problem with "red flags" is that almost ANYTHING can be a red flag if you want it to be. Going shopping alone, having a password on your cell phone, being on friendly terms with a member of the OS. I remember on this forum once, a woman complained her husband openly talked about meeting a female co-worker, and someone responded by saying his lack of secrecy was actually a red flag and part of the "cheater's script" because it's designed to throw his wife off the trail by doing the unexpected!! lol... So he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't!

Look, wanting to go on vacation alone is not, by itself, a "red flag". It's normal. *If you really want to live in a marriage where one partner must remain by the other's side at all times in order to prevent cheating (like in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia), then go for it, if that works for you*. But for the vast majority of people out there, that will not lead to a happy marriage. 

And BTW, to respond to someone else, this isn't a "sisterhood" thing. I happen to be very much male.


----------



## Toffer

Ok not going to debate the whole issue of what is right and wrong here

Do you have a relative or a friend you could get away with for free too? If so, just let her know that after she returns, you'll be leaving for your week to "decompress"

Sound fair?


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Theseus said:


> The problem with "red flags" is that almost ANYTHING can be a red flag if you want it to be. Going shopping alone, having a password on your cell phone, being on friendly terms with a member of the OS. I remember on this forum once, a woman complained her husband openly talked about meeting a female co-worker, and someone responded by saying his lack of secrecy was actually a red flag and part of the "cheater's script" because it's designed to throw his wife off the trail by doing the unexpected!! lol... So he was damned if he did, damned if he didn't!


So anything can be a red flag, so the red flag as a concept, is meaningless.
'kay.




> Look, wanting to go on vacation alone is not, by itself, a "red flag". It's normal. *If you really want to live in a marriage where one partner must remain by the other's side at all times in order to prevent cheating (like in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia), then go for it, if that works for you*. But for the vast majority of people out there, that will not lead to a happy marriage.


OP is upset and naturally wondering WTF at his wife's inconsiderate, self-absorbed behaviour, and in doing so is basically inflicting a medieval marriage like one would see in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia on the poor little snowflake.

'kay.



> And BTW, to respond to someone else, this isn't a "sisterhood" thing. I happen to be very much male.


Sir Galahad to the rescue, LOL

I can't imagine any decent man doing the same thing to his wife that op's wife is doing to him, yet it's OK when the roles are reversed.

Not expecting to change your opinion, and don't care what the sistahood think.

Tide in, tide out, ho hum.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Theseus said:


> No, I wouldn't be suspicious.
> 
> 1. If she had never gone on vacation by herself before, I would say: "it's about time"! Solo getaways are perfectly normal and there's nothing wrong with them.
> 
> 2. Staying with her aunt and uncle doesn't sound like a week of orgies to me.
> 
> 3. If she is going to cheat, then she is going to cheat anyway. Even if I was suspicious, are you seriously saying I should have to control her travel in order to keep her faithful? *If I have to keep her faithful by force, then the marriage is already over*.
> 
> 4. The money being tight is the only real problem I see here. But it depends how tight exactly? One person traveling to a relative's house isn't going to cost that much, unless she's flying to another continent.


And how about if your wife brought home a guy that she wanted to have sex with and asked for your opinion?

Would that make you suspicious?

Of course not, Thesus, because you have repeatedly stated here on TAM that you have no problem with your wife having sex with another man, and that it forms part of your sexual fantasy.

Could it be that you are also projecting your issues / values into this thread because you are comfortable with your wife having another sexual partner?
Could it be that the OP is concerned because he is NOT ok with the idea of an open marriage ?

Here's what you posted on a another thread sometime ago;

Originally Posted by Theseus 
02.23.2013 @ 5.48PM post # 5.
Thread;
Trouble With My Husband's Sexual Desires. Hotwife Complex. 
...

_" *I suppose I have this same "hot wife" fetish (although I've never heard it called that). I would love to see my wife with another man (or woman).* I'm afraid you may never really understand it, because even though I have this fetish myself, I don't really understand it. And the funny thing is, when I was much younger I used to be incredibly jealous. *Back when we were dating (non-exclusively), my wife went on a very innocent blind date with another guy but I was still out of my mind with jealousy. But if that happened today I would be thrilled. I really have no idea why I changed over the years, but I'm certain that part of it is that I eventually became much less insecure and much more confident about her feelings for me. But for the act itself, I'm not sure. It may be a combination of humiliation, healthy primal competition, or raw sex/carefree nature of the situation, or a combination thereof. If someone can think of another reason, I'm all ears.*
If I know other men are interested in my wife, it also gives me a LOT of motivation to keep going to the gym, so there is a practical value too. I'm not joking."_
~ Thesus.

See how that works?
How can a poster or even the OP be sure that the advice your'e giving on this thread , painting them as insecure neandertahals has absolutely no connection to your hotwife fetish?

BTW,
The main issue is not the money.
The OP has repeatedly said that he is willing to spend the money and go with her because he knows she is stressed at work.
His issue is that he wants to be with his wife and she doesn't want him around.


----------



## turnera

Toffer said:


> Ok not going to debate the whole issue of what is right and wrong here
> 
> Do you have a relative or a friend you could get away with for free too? If so, just let her know that after she returns, you'll be leaving for your week to "decompress"
> 
> Sound fair?


Sounds like a perfect resolution.


----------



## turnera

The Cro-Magnon said:


> I can't imagine any decent man doing the same thing to his wife that op's wife is doing to him, yet it's OK when the roles are reversed.


Huh? How many women go out hunting for a week or two every fall without their husband? Can't think of a single one. But I know plenty of men who do just that. And the wives never think twice.

Deer blind...hammock, what's the difference?

Oh, yeah, I remember. The woman is going to want to cheat.


----------



## chillymorn

money is tight means different things to people in different brackets.


too me 500$ of unexpected spending is not in my comfort zone.

used to not be this way and hopefully it won't be this way for long. But if I don't and she don't make some sacrifices then it will always be that way.


so even a rather humble amount of money can be out of the question depending on each families situation.

something's up. I smell it a mile away.

if money is tight and he offered to go with her and she balked then I smell a dirty stinky rat.


----------



## chillymorn

turnera said:


> Huh? How many women go out hunting for a week or two every fall without their husband? Can't think of a single one. But I know plenty of men who do just that. And the wives never think twice.
> 
> Deer blind...hammock, what's the difference?
> 
> Oh, yeah, I remember. The woman is going to want to cheat.


but they always did it she she accepted it. in this case she hasn't don't it and it out of the blue. and he even offered to go but that's not good enough. if my wife want to come hunting I would gladly bring her more meat for the freezer. and a piece of a$$ after a long day hunting!:smthumbup:


----------



## alexm

ConanHub said:


> alexm...
> 
> (edited out)
> 
> There are moderators for when things get out of hand, otherwise, let the opinions flow! That is what I love about TAM is all the various points of view.
> 
> Your point is no more important than the poster who jumped to warning of infidelity, or any point of view in between.
> 
> *Have a discussion about disagreements but don't try and shame someone out of their point of view. *
> 
> TAM rocks because of the varying view points on every subject!


Just out of curiosity, why does this seem to apply to me, but not the few replies 4 or 5 above this one? (posted AFTER all of mine, I might add).

I see a lot of "shaming" going on by the people who have an opposing pov here, too, but it's cool, because they post more, right? 

I haven't been here long, but it's apparent there are cliques, which is normal. But they also tend to have rather... extreme pov's on some things. WHICH IS FINE. "Extreme" does not mean "wrong". But often it's a "throw the baby out with the bathwater" mentality. 

It inevitably turns into 2, 3, 4 of them talking amongst themselves, insisting that we who hold opposing views "read so-and-so's posts", as back up for their own arguments, and shooting down everybody else who doesn't agree with them - as a group.

I get it. Some of you folks who have 4000 posts here are experienced, and deserve a certain amount of respect. But some folks seem to think that 4000 posts = "(s)he's always right, listen to them, they KNOW what they're talking about." It's sycophantic.

Then some of us get the "you're being hostile" post...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

MattMatt said:


> Is she cheating? Probably not.
> 
> Is she placing her needs above and beyond the needs of her husband and children? Perhaps so.
> 
> And that issue, IMO, needs to be addressed.


Every now and then it's Ok for a Mom to put her needs first. We don't always have to be the martyr.
I know one poster thought we were only talking about SAHMs but I am a working Mother and my opinion is still the same. 
Every day I put everyone else's needs above my own. This Mom is talking about taking 1 week out of 17 years to put hers first and that's a huge issue? 

Never worrying about our own needs can be very dangerous. One of the hardest things for a Mother to learn is that sometimes putting yourself first IS doing what's best for the whole family. 

If this post was about a man wanting to go fishing with his Uncle because work had been extra hard lately it would not have been so long IMO. Women are seen as people who put our family first and never worry about ourselves. We are supposed to do it all, with a smile on our face, and not have needs of our own. It's sad. 

Also- I wouldn't read too much into think vs thinking. If I say "I think I'm going to cut my hair" or "I'm thinking of getting a haircut" it means the same thing. I'm thinking about it and want your opinion.


----------



## SolidSnake

This is the type of thread where everybody jumps in and projects their own situation onto the OPs. Consequently he isn't getting much good advice. 

First off, I don't understand why people on this forum focus on gender so much. Both marriage partners are adults and subject to the same standards. I find when people say things like "Moms need a break," it bothers me because it implies that Moms are special. Don't Dads need a break too? Neither spouse is automatically entitled to a vacation alone without their spouse's consent. In this case the OP is not comfortable with his wifes plans.

I also find it disconcerting that people automatically assume infidelity. If you actually read the thread, it days that she wants to stay with her aunt and uncle. She isn't going to be alone in Florida, unless she is lying, which we have no reason to assume. People keep saying that she us going alone and must be looking to cheat. I suppose she could still look to cheat even with her aunt and uncle there, but saying she is going to be there all alone is contrary to the facts. I wouldn't automatically assume that. 

OP, I completely understand your reservations about your wife forcing a solo vacation on you without even asking you about it. Have you ever read about the policy if joint agreement in Love Busters by Dr. Harley? Try reading that book with your wife. 

I agree with one of the first posters who said that your wife thinks that the marriage revolves around her needs. I think that you may be contributing to this dynamic by doing the majority of the chores and seeing to her every need while on vacation.

I'm sorry if I missed a previous post if you elaborated on how well or often she meets your needs. Do you feel she generally meets your needs well and things are about equal between you, or do you often feel that her needs come first? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

SolidSnake said:


> First off, I don't understand why people on this forum focus on gender so much. Both marriage partners are adults and subject to the same standards. I find when people say things like "Moms need a break," irksome me because it implies that Moms are special. Don't Dads need a break too? Neither spouse is automatically entitled to a vacation alone without their spouses consent.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I do believe Dads needs breaks too, and they should take them without guilt just like we should. That said, I think Moms *in general* put more expectations/stress on ourselves because of our own worries and because of pressure around us. Like I talked about, the expectation that we are supposed to be everything to every body and never put our own needs first. 

It's more socially and personally acceptable for Dads to take breaks than it is for Moms- IMO and again, in general. So I'm not saying that Moms should take breaks, I'm saying Moms should take breaks TOO and not feel bad about it. 

I've seen people criticize Moms more than Dads, at least in my life. Dads are expected to work, Moms are expected (and expect ourselves) to be perfect. Don't work, don't SAH and be dependent, don't breastfeed here, don't use a bottle, don't let them scream, don't discipline them like that, don't ignore your child but make sure your house is clean and dinner is done. It's more acceptable - in general- for a man to come home and relax, not use all his sick days on taking the kids to the Dr, not leaving work to see a play (BTW- they have Mothers day at 2:00pm at our school and Father's day at 6:00pm :/) Go out and have a drink after work, etc. I can't even be at work without judgement, let alone do something for myself for a change. 

I just think Moms should be given the same respect as a Dad would in this situation and I don't think everyone would be jumping up a man's butt about needing some "me" time after a stressful time at work and home.


----------



## SolidSnake

Ok, fair enough. However the problem is not that the OPs wife may need a break, but that the OPs wife is forcing her break on him. He is not comfortable with the type of break she wants and that is the issue at hand. She could plan something else that he wouldn't have a problem with.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Lets get a few things straight.

1]This thread is not about a tired SAHM.
2]This thread is not about whether moms or dads are allowed to go on vacations by themselves.
3]This thread is not about OP suspecting his wife is cheating or acting dodgy.

In other words, this thread is not about whether your husband or ex husband treated you badly , or was controlling and insecure .

This thread is not about whether your ex wife cheated on a trip to Vegas or wherever.

This thread is basically about two things.

1]Whether or not the OP's wife is ENTITLED to a solo vacation at this time, and at the family's expense.

The answer is a resounding NO.

2]The way in which this sense of " entitlement" to a solo vacation was communicated to the OP, which left him feeling hurt.He is asking whether or not he should be concerned.

The answer is an affirmative YES.

The issues are as simple as that.


----------



## Caribbean Man

solidsnake said:


> he is not comfortable with the type of break she wants and that is the issue at hand. *she could plan something else that he wouldn't have a problem with.*


*problem solved.*


----------



## Vega

SolidSnake said:


> Ok, fair enough. However the problem is not that the OPs wife may need a break, but that *the OPs wife is forcing her break on him.* He is not comfortable with the type of break she wants and that is the issue at hand. She could plan something else that he wouldn't have a problem with.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How is she "forcing" her break on him? There was nothing mentioned about her decision being "final", and the OP DOES have a mouth which he could have used to _protest_. 

So far, it seems as though the OP hasn't said ANYTHING about what HIS response was when she said what she said. 

Vega


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> This thread is basically about two things.
> 
> 1]Whether or not the OP's wife is ENTITLED to a solo vacation at this time, and at the family's expense.
> 
> The answer is a resounding NO.
> 
> 2]The way in which this sense of " entitlement" to a solo vacation was communicated to the OP, which left him feeling hurt.He is asking whether or not he should be concerned.
> 
> The answer is an affirmative YES.
> 
> The issues are as simple as that.


Your opinion is that it's a resounding NO, My answer is YES, this working Mother (I don't know why you said SAHM) might be entitled to a break that will be low cost to her family, an expensive trip would have different responses, and that if he is concerned there are other ways to solve it rather than not allowing her to go. If it's cheating- she can check in with him and allow everything to be open (facebook, texts, etc). If it's money- they can work out a budget to accommodate. If it's that he needs a break too- they can plan for his next. 

I do think they should compromise but I don't think that means she should just not be allowed to go. period. They can talk over his concerns and make this trip something that is comfortable for everyone. 

Horrible entitled Mom saying that she thinks she needs a break. How dare she! She should just shut her mouth and not think about herself. I do hope you would treat a man the same way and never expect him to think about putting his needs first.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Caribbean Man said:


> Lets get a few things straight.
> 
> 1]This thread is not about a tired SAHM.
> 2]This thread is not about whether moms or dads are allowed to go on vacations by themselves.
> 3]This thread is not about OP suspecting his wife is cheating or acting dodgy.
> 
> In other words, this thread is not about whether your husband or ex husband treated you badly , or was controlling and insecure .
> 
> This thread is not about whether your ex wife cheated on a trip to Vegas or wherever.
> 
> This thread is basically about two things.
> 
> 1]Whether or not the OP's wife is ENTITLED to a solo vacation at this time, and at the family's expense.
> 
> The answer is a resounding NO.
> 
> 2]The way in which this sense of " entitlement" to a solo vacation was communicated to the OP, which left him feeling hurt.He is asking whether or not he should be concerned.
> 
> The answer is an affirmative YES.
> 
> The issues are as simple as that.


I'm not clear on how this is hurting the family. Are they not going to get a vacation they would have otherwise gotten? If so that's a problem. They don't have money for a family vacation, but family vacations are expensive. One person staying with relatives is generally a lot cheaper. And he made a point to say that he would like to go, not that this would bankrupt them. On this thread I've seen everything from her telling him and the kids to f$ck off to her c0ck shopping. .Instead of getting on here p!ssing about how he wasn't invited maybe he should approach her with a counter proposal, where she gets a few days? Then if he wants something they can find him a few days. The kids are 10 and 17, not exactly toddlers, so how exactly is the family suffering for this?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm not clear on how this is hurting the family. Are they not going to get a vacation they would have otherwise gotten? If so that's a problem. They don't have money for a family vacation, but family vacations are expensive. One person staying with relatives is generally a lot cheaper. And he made a point to say that he would like to go, not that this would bankrupt them. On this thread I've seen everything from her telling him and the kids to f$ck off to her c0ck shopping. .*Instead of getting on here p!ssing about how he wasn't invited maybe he should approach her with a counter proposal, where she gets a few days? Then if he wants something they can find him a few days. *


Lol,
So now he's " _pissing about how he wasn't * invited?*_ "

WOW!

In any event, based on how the conversation went, maybe you could pinpoint to us exactly where he could have interjected a counter proposal?

Or lemme make it easier.
Flip the genders and put yourself in her shoes. How would you have reacted had your husband spoken to you like that?


----------



## lifeistooshort

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> So now he's " _pissing about how he wasn't * invited?*_ "
> 
> WOW!


Nice job not answering my questions. My hb flies back to see his family without me sometimes, and I've done the same with mine. Not that big of a deal.
His wife is tired. So is the answer to tell her to suck it up? Yeah that's good for the marriage. Talk to her and make a deal; that is good for the marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

lifeistooshort said:


> His wife is tired. So is the answer to tell her to suck it up? Yeah that's good for the marriage. *Talk to her and make a deal; that is good for the marriage.*


Of course he should talk to her and he did!

But did she want to hear or listen?
Maybe you should go back and read his original three posts, and pull any sentence which indicates that she wanted to hear his opinion, come back and post it here.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> In any event, based on how the conversation went, maybe you could pinpoint to us exactly where he could have interjected a counter proposal?


How about right after she said this:



> "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Of course he should talk to her and he did!
> 
> But did she want to hear or listen?
> Maybe you should go back and read his original three posts, and pull any sentence which indicates that she wanted to hear his opinion, come back and post it here.


Maybe you should, too, CM. No where does he say that he objected to her statement.

Like I mentioned earlier, we have no idea WHAT the OP said to her after she made her thoughts known.


----------



## lifeistooshort

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Your opinion is that it's a resounding NO, My answer is YES, this working Mother (I don't know why you said SAHM) might be entitled to a break that will be low cost to her family, an expensive trip would have different responses, and that if he is concerned there are other ways to solve it rather than not allowing her to go. If it's cheating- she can check in with him and allow everything to be open (facebook, texts, etc). If it's money- they can work out a budget to accommodate. If it's that he needs a break too- they can plan for his next.
> 
> I do think they should compromise but I don't think that means she should just not be allowed to go. period. They can talk over his concerns and make this trip something that is comfortable for everyone.
> 
> Horrible entitled Mom saying that she thinks she needs a break. How dare she! She should just shut her mouth and not think about herself. I do hope you would treat a man the same way and never expect him to think about putting his needs first.



You're forgetting that men are also entitled to regular bj's to help them relax, at least according to TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SolidSnake

Well its the fault of the OP for not making it clear if he mentioned his objections to his wife yet, and if so, what her response was. I may be operating under the mistaken assumption that she insisted on going even though he objected to it, though that may not be the case. If he objects, they should comprise, period. It's always at the family's expense if you do whatever you want while ignoring your spouses feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## alexm

Purely out of curiosity, but did you go digging through 11 month old posts to find this, or anything else that could disprove someone else's point(s) or did you bookmark it somehow, in case it could be used sometime in the future?

I'm being semi-serious and semi-facetious.




Caribbean Man said:


> And how about if your wife brought home a guy that she wanted to have sex with and asked for your opinion?
> 
> Would that make you suspicious?
> 
> Of course not, Thesus, because you have repeatedly stated here on TAM that you have no problem with your wife having sex with another man, and that it forms part of your sexual fantasy.
> 
> Could it be that you are also projecting your issues / values into this thread because you are comfortable with your wife having another sexual partner?
> Could it be that the OP is concerned because he is NOT ok with the idea of an open marriage ?
> 
> Here's what you posted on a another thread sometime ago;
> 
> Originally Posted by Theseus
> 02.23.2013 @ 5.48PM post # 5.
> Thread;
> Trouble With My Husband's Sexual Desires. Hotwife Complex.
> ...
> 
> _" *I suppose I have this same "hot wife" fetish (although I've never heard it called that). I would love to see my wife with another man (or woman).* I'm afraid you may never really understand it, because even though I have this fetish myself, I don't really understand it. And the funny thing is, when I was much younger I used to be incredibly jealous. *Back when we were dating (non-exclusively), my wife went on a very innocent blind date with another guy but I was still out of my mind with jealousy. But if that happened today I would be thrilled. I really have no idea why I changed over the years, but I'm certain that part of it is that I eventually became much less insecure and much more confident about her feelings for me. But for the act itself, I'm not sure. It may be a combination of humiliation, healthy primal competition, or raw sex/carefree nature of the situation, or a combination thereof. If someone can think of another reason, I'm all ears.*
> If I know other men are interested in my wife, it also gives me a LOT of motivation to keep going to the gym, so there is a practical value too. I'm not joking."_
> ~ Thesus.
> 
> See how that works?
> How can a poster or even the OP be sure that the advice your'e giving on this thread , painting them as insecure neandertahals has absolutely no connection to your hotwife fetish?
> 
> BTW,
> The main issue is not the money.
> The OP has repeatedly said that he is willing to spend the money and go with her because he knows she is stressed at work.
> His issue is that he wants to be with his wife and she doesn't want him around.


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> So now he's " _pissing about how he wasn't * invited?*_ "
> 
> WOW!


*That's certainly how it appears:*



finsrule said:


> This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.
> 
> I am having a hard time with this, I would never ever even think about taking a vacation without her. I can't imagine anyone telling (not asking) their spouse that they are going to go away for a week by themselves.


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> Purely out of curiosity, but did you go digging through 11 month old posts to find this, or anything else that could disprove someone else's point(s) or did you bookmark it somehow, in case it could be used sometime in the future?
> 
> I'm being semi-serious and semi-facetious.


Nah.

II didn't have to dig far, his threads and posts are replete with it.
It's his fantasy/ fetish and he's proud of it.
No problem
Everyone has their own fetishes and kinks.
And I wasn't trying t disprove his point.
I was just pointing out to him that when he tries to paint spouses who are concerned about their wives or husbands cheating, he should at least be honest enough to tell them first that he's in favour of open marriages.

Is that too much to ask?

That way they would be able to analyze his perspective.

This isn't the only thread he did that, and it's not the first time I've called him on it.
And he has also done it to both men and women who come here,
a MONOGAMOUS MARRIAGE board dedicated to helping troubled marriages, looking for help

Go through his threads or posts and you'll see for yourself.


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> *That's certainly how it appears:*


Well alexm,

I don't know what applies in your marriage.
But in our marriage, I have never approached my wife like that.
We have this little arrangement where we both consult and communicate with each other like mature adults and not like spoiled, entitled, teen aged Ninja Turtles.

I can't TELL my wife in a matter-of-fact way that I'm heading up to the Turks & Caicos Islands by my relatives and she's not invited because I'm stressed and need to decompress on the beach.

However , if that works for your marriage , 
Then best wishes.

Clearly, the OP doesn't want that dynamic in his marriage,
That's why he's here.


----------



## alexm

So everyone who comes into this thread who has been cheated on should mention that before they state their opinion that OP's wife is cheating on him.

I was not aware that we all had to have a disclaimer about where our perspectives are coming from before we post.

His perspective is just as valid as yours, mine, or anybody else's here. There's no need to call attention to someone because you feel his advice doesn't work.

I got called out in this thread for "shaming", etc.

What's this?



Caribbean Man said:


> I was just pointing out to him that when he tries to paint spouses who are concerned about their wives or husbands cheating, he should at least be honest enough to tell them first that he's in favour of open marriages.
> 
> Is that too much to ask?
> 
> That way they would be able to analyze his perspective.


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> *His perspective is just as valid as yours, mine, or anybody else's here. There's no need to call attention to someone because you feel his advice doesn't work.*


Right! That is exactly what he did by painting those men whose opinions he disagreed with as controlling and repressive over their wives.

Interestingly enough an equal amount of women also said that they couldn't possibly imagine going on a vacation without their husbands ,
But he didn't shame them.

Got it?

And BTW, _the poster who first suggested cheating was female._


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> Right! That is exactly what he did by painting those men whose opinions he disagreed with as controlling and repressive over their wives.
> 
> *But I don't think he shamed them. I didn't see him dig up old posts that purportedly contradict their views. He gave his opinion, a valid one, one that you don't agree with (which is fine), and you responded by finding something to invalidate his arguments, thereby giving us all a 'ha ha! See what I found? He's not qualified to have an opinion on this matter because... x y and z.'*
> 
> Interestingly enough an equal amount of women also said that they couldn't possibly imagine going on a vacation without their husbands ,
> But he didn't shame them.
> 
> *But I didn't see ONE of those women say they wouldn't do this because they would assume their husband is trolling for something else. That was an jilted/angry/alpha male response. Perhaps those folks should have made a disclaimer before responding, too. That's according to your rule.*
> 
> Got it?
> 
> *Yes, your holiness!:smthumbup:*
> 
> And BTW, _the poster who first suggested cheating was female._


----------



## SolidSnake

lifeistooshort said:


> Nice job not answering my questions. My hb flies back to see his family without me sometimes, and I've done the same with mine. Not that big of a deal.
> His wife is tired. So is the answer to tell her to suck it up? Yeah that's good for the marriage. Talk to her and make a deal; that is good for the marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No ones saying to tell the wife to suck it up. It's that this particular plan is a problem for the OP. I'm sure there are ways she could relax that tey could compromise on and both be ok with...a spa weekend for her, a weekend trip to for both of them, etc. just because you are comfortable with separate vacations in your marriage does not mean that the OP should be in his. Different people have different comfort levels and that's ok.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## barbados

Don't know if this was asked yet, but would she be OK if you asked the exact same thing of her ?

If they answer to that would be NO, then your answer to her should be NO.


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> _But I don't think he shamed them. I didn't see him dig up old posts that purportedly contradict their views. He gave his opinion, a valid one, one that you don't agree with (which is fine), and you responded by finding something to invalidate his arguments, thereby giving us all a 'ha ha! See what I found? He's not qualified to have an opinion on this matter because... x y and z.'_


And that's your opinion .
Good.

But like I've said it's not the first time I've called him out, and he has called me on out on other threads before.

So I really don't get what's your problem.
FYI, I actually like most of his posts because he tends to be fair and unbiased, and I show my respect for him by "liking" his posts which I agree with.
Those I disagree with, I challenge him and we have had our debates, with either him conceding [ which is rare] or I conceding [ which is more probable because he's a more skilled debater than me. I have no problem with that.]
If I think he's going overboard I call him on it like I've done today and other times before.

I am no longer interested in discussing this here, because it is a massive threadjack which contributes nothing to the OP's situation.
Now I hope you'd excuse me.
Thank You!


----------



## Caribbean Man

barbados said:


> Don't know if this was asked yet, but would she be OK if you asked the exact same thing of her ?
> 
> If they answer to that would be NO, then your answer to her should be NO.


I am tempted to agree with you but that won't fix the problem.
There is an underlying problem in the marriage that's causing confusion in the OP's mind.
These things never happen " out of the blue."
IMO, he looks like a genuine " nice guy."


----------



## lifeistooshort

SolidSnake said:


> No ones saying to tell the wife to suck it up. It's that this particular plan is a problem for the OP. I'm sure there are ways she could relax that tey could compromise on and both be ok with...a spa weekend for her, a weekend trip to for both of them, etc. just because you are comfortable with separate vacations in your marriage does not mean that the OP should be in his. Different people have different comfort comfort levels and that's ok.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


A number of people have essentially said suck it up. It just comes in the form of "don't allow this" and "say no". But I agree with you; in fact I said more than once that they should talk and make a deal with compromise on both parts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

SolidSnake said:


> No ones saying to tell the wife to suck it up. It's that this particular plan is a problem for the OP. I'm sure there are ways she could relax that tey could compromise on and both be ok with...a spa weekend for her, a weekend trip to for both of them, etc. just because you are comfortable with separate vacations in your marriage does not mean that the OP should be in his. Different people have different comfort comfort levels and that's ok.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Exactly.
Neither does it mean that the OP is wrong for feeling how he does, because some posters husband allows them to vacation alone.

I have posted THREE times on this thread, that my wife does her own vacation EVERY YEAR apart from me.
But I can certainly understand exactly why the OP feels the way he feels, because it isn't a norm in his marriage and he isn't ready to accept it.


----------



## Omego

WyshIknew said:


> .
> 
> I send the wife off to London for a long weekend with her mum and friends and she goes shopping, theatre etc. Tried it once with her and almost lost the will to live after the 10th shop.
> 
> .


:rofl::rofl:

Sorry, I'm not replying to the main topic but this is too funny! Sounds like my H.


----------



## Omego

Ok to be serious now. I haven't read all of the posts but the first thing I thought when I read the first post was that the wife was going to visit relatives who live on the beach, thereby avoiding the cost of a real vacation (hotel, etc.) and the same time, getting the benefit of some sort of vacation or time to relax.

As many mentioned, there was not enough background information, but one thing is clear: if the H felt slighted by either the idea, or the manner in which it was expressed, or both, they need to discuss things so that neither party feels that his or her feelings have been neglected.....


----------



## Theseus

The Cro-Magnon said:


> So anything can be a red flag, so the red flag as a concept, is meaningless.
> 'kay.


I never said that. "Red flags" have to be taken in the context in which they happen. If the wife suddenly stopped having sex with her husband, started chatting with a man who lives in the same town as her aunt/uncle, etc., then that would be an actual red flag. But the OP hasn't said anything like that. 



> _OP is upset and naturally wondering WTF at his wife's inconsiderate, self-absorbed behaviour, and in doing so is basically inflicting a medieval marriage like one would see in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia on the poor little snowflake.
> 
> 'kay._


No, people like YOU are encouraging him toward a Saudi Arabian style marriage. 



> _Sir Galahad to the rescue, LOL_


That's hilarious, since I am usually accused of being a woman-hater on these forums. I can even provide you with quotes. But I guess if I am being attacked from both sides, I must be doing something right. 



> _I can't imagine any decent man doing the same thing to his wife that op's wife is doing to him, yet it's OK when the roles are reversed._


I already said it's not a man/woman thing. A husband should absolutely be able to take a solo vacation once in awhile without his wife freaking out. Do you seriously think otherwise?


----------



## Holland

TRy said:


> When you put something in quotes, it means that is what they exactly said. Although you quote the word "thinking", she actually said "think". The specific quote of the wife by the OP was "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress". Saying that "I think I am going to" do something, followed by an "I need" to justify it, is not the same as I am "thinking" of doing something and asking for input. Based on what the OP actually said, the wife was not asking for the husband's input, and for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.


Seriously? You are playing semantics, it is a post on an internet forum and no one has any way of knowing exactly what the OP or his wife actually said. OK good luck to you.


----------



## Theseus

Caribbean Man said:


> And how about if your wife brought home a guy that she wanted to have sex with and asked for your opinion?
> 
> Would that make you suspicious?


And WTF does that have to do with *THIS* situation?



> _Of course not, Thesus, because you have repeatedly stated here on TAM that you have no problem with your wife having sex with another man, and that it forms part of your sexual fantasy._


You do understand the difference between fantasy and reality right?

Moreover, WTF do my sexual preferences have to do with anything? 

So bisexual people (like "Faithful Wife") can't give sound advice to heterosexuals? So single people can't be counted on to give objective advice to married people? Whatever. 

You can troll through the gutter for my old posts as much as you want. Not only is it disgusting, *but when you have to dig so deep to find "dirt" it shows you have no actual argument at hand*. Before this I somewhat respected you on these forums, but now you disappoint me. I would rather you just delete your comment (and I'll delete my response) to keep this argument civil. 



> _Could it be that the OP is concerned because he is NOT ok with the idea of an open marriage ?_


Dear Lord!!! Not only is this nothing like an open marriage thread, but the OP hasn't even indicated any evidence of adultery. 

Morever, it may shock you to all hell to hear this but "open marriage" does NOT equal "no trust issues", "no boundaries" or "no standards". Even people in open marriages have the same dilemmas as the OP. 



> _His issue is that he wants to be with his wife and she doesn't want him around._


I happen to be in the military and I spend months at a time away from my spouse. Trust me, a week or two isn't going to kill him and might make their marriage stronger. I promise.


----------



## Holland

Paranoia has gone crazy in this thread, I wouldn't stress over it Theseus


----------



## WyshIknew

Omego said:


> :rofl::rofl:
> 
> Sorry, I'm not replying to the main topic but this is too funny! Sounds like my H.





Omego said:


> Ok to be serious now. I haven't read all of the posts but the first thing I thought when I read the first post was that the wife was going to visit relatives who live on the beach, thereby avoiding the cost of a real vacation (hotel, etc.) and the same time, getting the benefit of some sort of vacation or time to relax.
> 
> As many mentioned, there was not enough background information, but one thing is clear: if the H felt slighted by either the idea, or the manner in which it was expressed, or both, they need to discuss things so that neither party feels that his or her feelings have been neglected.....


Exactly, they just need to talk about this. And if she is frazzled to a nub then perhaps a short break is what she needs.

Perhaps the concerning thing is that they have both let it get to the point that she feels she needs this break. Something they should have been talking about well before this.

A stitch in time saves nine.

When we had no money I would take the kids for a walk at the weekend, we would explore, find 'secret' woods, go and see Granny, whatever.

Now, every so often I'll do a weekend trip. I might book my wife in for a spa/beauty treatment.

We usually do stuff together, but the part I posted about my wife's shopping trip to London, although written in a slightly humorous way was posted for a reason.

Sometimes there is 'stuff' that women like to do that men don't, and vice versa.

My wife would *hate* my fishing trip, she wouldn't 'get' or understand all our in jokes. She'd be tutting at my drinking, the coarse jokes, the pranks we play on each other etc.

And I hate the interminable shopping she does on her trip. We both agreed I would not go again as it is no fun for her to be dragging a fed up man around everywhere.

Perhaps this is all the ops wife needs, a chance to unwind.

Op, talk about it to your wife!


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> So I really don't get what's your problem.
> 
> *This is:*
> 
> 
> 
> Theseus said:
> 
> 
> 
> You can troll through the gutter for my old posts as much as you want. Not only is it disgusting, *but when you have to dig so deep to find "dirt" it shows you have no actual argument at hand*. Before this I somewhat respected you on these forums, but now you disappoint me. I would rather you just delete your comment (and I'll delete my response) to keep this argument civil.
> .
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Otherwise, I like most of your posts and replies, CM. You have good input (including in this thread), but I very much dislike your tactics here. You made it personal, got called out, and you're leaving the thread.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'm being warned to not get personal and "shame" people, in the very same thread.
> 
> There's a double standard here.
> 
> That's it, that's all. I have no issues with your actual input to the OP.
> 
> Carry on.*
Click to expand...


----------



## Nucking Futs

Op hasn't been on since post 31. 10 pages of bickering wasted.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Theseus said:


> I never said that. "Red flags" have to be taken in the context in which they happen. If the wife suddenly stopped having sex with her husband, started chatting with a man who lives in the same town as her aunt/uncle, etc., then that would be an actual red flag. But the OP hasn't said anything like that.
> 
> 
> 
> No, people like YOU are encouraging him toward a Saudi Arabian style marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> That's hilarious, since I am usually accused of being a woman-hater on these forums. I can even provide you with quotes. But I guess if I am being attacked from both sides, I must be doing something right.
> 
> 
> 
> I already said it's not a man/woman thing. A husband should absolutely be able to take a solo vacation once in awhile without his wife freaking out. Do you seriously think otherwise?



I didn't think you were a woman hater, but maybe I need to read more of your posts. .I've seen quite a few and nothing struck me as woman hating, whether I agree with your posts or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy

turnera said:


> Deer blind...hammock, what's the difference?


 Really? You do not know? Well if you need it spelled out, here goes. Very few people enjoy sex in a deer blind during the very cold hunting season, but sex in a hammock in the warm sun is very fun. Also, there are very few women looking for action in a hunting lodge for the husband to hook up with, but there are many men looking for action in Florida clubs for women to hook up with. Trying to say that a hunting trip is the same as a Florida beach trip when it comes to having a possible affair is ridiculous.


----------



## TRy

Holland said:


> Seriously? You are playing semantics, it is a post on an internet forum and no one has any way of knowing exactly what the OP or his wife actually said. OK good luck to you.


 First, we may not know exactly what the OP and his wife said to each other, but we do know exactly what the OP said in his post because we have that in print; since the OP is the one posting, that is the best that we have to go with. Second, the whole purpose of quotes is to inform the reader that they can rely on the quoted text without going back to look it up in determining the meaning of what was said by the poster (in this case the OP). You can try to hide behind saying that I am "playing semantics" (see how I used it here, it is exactly what you said) when I call you out for changing words that are in quotes, but that does not change the fact that it is misleading.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Theseus said:


> And WTF does that have to do with *THIS* situation?


Actually Theseus,
You're right!

Your fetish / fantasy and belief in open marriages has absolutely nothing to do with your responses on this thread just like those men who have been burned by their cheating wives' horrible experiences , who are saying that she might be heading towards cheating has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Therefore your Saudi Arabia analogy is just baseless ,absurd and irrelevant to this thread as your hotwife fetish.

But it takes someone who is able to empathize to recognize that.
Are you capable of empathizing with other people's misfortunes?
Or are you the type that doesn't GAF?

Therein lies _your_ paranoia.[ and that other female poster]

But your'e a smart guy , I know you'll " get it."


----------



## TRy

Caribbean Man said:


> Your fetish / fantasy and belief in open marriages has absolutely nothing to do with your responses on this thread just like those men who have been burned by their cheating wives' horrible experiences , who are saying that she might be heading towards cheating has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.


 I agree. Fair is fair. If people's opinions can be questioned because they may be biased based on the fact that they have been burned by a cheating spouse, so can the opinions of people be questioned as biased based on their belief in open marriages. Everyone's background either matters or it does not matter, you cannot have it both ways.


----------



## Caribbean Man

TRy said:


> I agree. Fair is fair. If people's opinions can be questioned because they may be biased based on the fact that they have been burned by a cheating spouse, so can the opinions of people be questioned as biased based on their belief in open marriages. Everyone's background either matters or it does not matter, you cannot have it both ways.


Well that's basic manners / etiquette.
We were ALL taught that when we were kids.
At least I _hope_ so?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TRy said:


> Really? You do not know? Well if you need it spelled out, here goes. Very few people enjoy sex in a deer blind during the very cold hunting season, but sex in a hammock in the warm sun is very fun. Also, there are very few women looking for action in a hunting lodge for the husband to hook up with, but there are many men looking for action in Florida clubs for women to hook up with. Trying to say that a hunting trip is the same as a Florida beach trip when it comes to having a possible affair is ridiculous.


Eh, for me sex in a hammock when it's hot (hard to balance and hang on + hot, sweaty man on you when it's already hot out) vs. saying snug in a double sleeping bag using each other to stay warm... there's no question I was choose the later :smthumbup: 
A lot of my old girlfriends from highschool go to hunting lodges, it's normal where I live but was never my thing. They post pictures of dead animals on their facebook pages, they drink beer and hang with the boys. I went once for school and that was it. 
I think if cheating was the purpose for either trip, it could be done. It could also be avoided in either place. They could still each set boundaries to prevent affair possibilities. Saying one is allowed but the other is not is silly. Either no one gets to leave the house without the spouse or you both get to. Fair is fair. 

It's easy enough to say no clubs too. I doubt a woman who truly wants a break from it all wants to be in a noisy club with jerk men hitting on her anyway.


----------



## Theseus

Caribbean Man said:


> Actually Theseus,
> You're right!
> 
> Your fetish / fantasy and belief in open marriages has absolutely nothing to do with your responses on this thread just like those men who have been burned by their cheating wives' horrible experiences , who are saying that she might be heading towards cheating has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.
> 
> Therefore your Saudi Arabia analogy is just baseless ,absurd and irrelevant to this thread as your hotwife fetish.


There's one big difference though. I never brought open marriages into it, but many people certainly brought infidelity into it. 

I never advised the OP to take steps toward an open marriage, yet several people have said they are sure the OP's wife is cheating (one said she is out for c0ck!) and others have advised him to stop her trip or make ultimatums because there are "red flags" for cheating. 

I am just saying that if you have to keep your wife faithful by forcing her to stay with you/vacation with you, then your marriage is already over. Without using analogies, that's the simplest way I can put it. That's all.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Theseus said:


> There's one big difference though. I never brought open marriages into it, but many people certainly brought infidelity into it.
> 
> I never advised the OP to take steps toward an open marriage, yet several people have said they are sure the OP's wife is cheating (one said she is out for c0ck!) and others have advised him to stop her trip or make ultimatums because there are "red flags" for cheating.
> 
> I am just saying that if you have to keep your wife faithful by forcing her to stay with you/vacation with you, then your marriage is already over. Without using analogies, that's the simplest way I can put it. That's all.



And who saying that the OP is forcing his wife except you?

Let's discuss and reason this like grown men.

Your boundaries are radically different to the OP's marital boundaries , so you framing him as " controlling " is a bit illogical and probably borderline disingenuous .

It's like a Bible thumping Christian telling you that you're a sinner because both you and your wife agree to an open marriage.

How can you honestly tell the OP and other men who are strict monogamist ,that his marital boundaries are archaic when your boundaries are either radically different or non existent?

That's where the " logic break" comes in.

So , you believe in an open marriage and the OP does not , hence the reason he wants to be at his wife's side.

I believe in strict monogamy and I have no problem with my wife's solo vacations. But at least I'm sensible enough to understand that the OP's marital boundaries are different to mine, hence his concern over his wife's sudden actions.
We all have the right to set our own boundaries in our own marriages and not force our views on anyone else's marriage.

Do you agree?

Is that unreasonable or irrational?


----------



## barbados

Caribbean Man said:


> I am tempted to agree with you but that won't fix the problem.
> There is an underlying problem in the marriage that's causing confusion in the OP's mind.
> These things never happen " out of the blue."
> IMO, he looks like a genuine " nice guy."


:iagree:

I made the comment for the OP to give him something to think about. A little "easy tough love" for a "nice guy" to maybe help him realize the imbalance in his relationship.


----------



## turnera

TRy said:


> Really? You do not know? Well if you need it spelled out, here goes. Very few people enjoy sex in a deer blind during the very cold hunting season, but sex in a hammock in the warm sun is very fun. Also, there are very few women looking for action in a hunting lodge for the husband to hook up with, but there are many men looking for action in Florida clubs for women to hook up with. Trying to say that a hunting trip is the same as a Florida beach trip when it comes to having a possible affair is ridiculous.


Then you don't understand the appeal for a woman who usually is taking care of everyone else, to be allowed to just lie in a hammock for a week and not HAVE to take care of anyone else. To assume that the only reason a woman would want to lie in a hammock is to have sex is insulting.


----------



## WyshIknew

turnera said:


> Then you don't understand the appeal for a woman who usually is taking care of everyone else, to be allowed to just lie in a hammock for a week and not HAVE to take care of anyone else. To assume that the only reason a woman would want to lie in a hammock is to have sex is insulting.


When the children were young Mrs Wysh would go on her shopping trip. Her last actions were a kiss for me and "unless it is serious and involves the kids I don't wanna know. Bye."

She would leave for her trip tired, grumpy, stressed with the kids, work etc. and come back four or five days later a different person.
I would then have to sit there while she showed me every damn thing she bought, details of the shows she had seen, bars they went to, the 'really funny thing' that was the running joke of their trip etc. It really gave her a chance to unwind.

Could she stray while she was away? Of course she could, but she goes with family members or friends that I know and trust and who will look after each other. Plus she knows the consequences if she does, as do I if I was to stray while I was away on my trip. It's not that difficult to avoid accidentally sticking your willy into some random woman and vice versa.

I love my trips with my wife, and I also love my trips away with my buddies. But for different reasons in each case.


----------



## Theseus

Caribbean Man said:


> And who saying that the OP is forcing his wife except you?


FULL STOP. I never said he was forcing his wife. 

However, several members here on TAM certainly want him to. They are encouraging him to force his wife to stay home through threats of divorce and by "manning up" over an issue that's no threat to him whatsoever. That's like doing invasive surgery on a healthy person. 



> _So , you believe in an open marriage and the OP does not , hence the reason he wants to be at his wife's side._


Again WTF??? Maybe I believe in global warming and the OP does not. You want to discuss that too? Because that's about as relevant. 

You have some obsession on bringing open marriage into this. No one else keeps harping on it. That's not the topic of this discussion and the OP hasn't said he's considering it. 

BTW, just for the record, not that I should have to explain anything, but I don't "believe in" open marriage any more than I simply believe that any couple has the right to decide their own type of marriage they want. I am not in an open marriage, and I have never been in one. 



> _But at least I'm sensible enough to understand that the OP's marital boundaries are different to mine, hence his concern over his wife's sudden actions.
> We all have the right to set our own boundaries in our own marriages and not force our views on anyone else's marriage._


Boundaries have to be agreed on by BOTH partners. Unless they agreed before the marriage on no solo vacations, then this wasn't a mutually agreed on boundary. You also have to consider which boundaries are even reasonable. One spouse should be able to prevent the other from traveling alone? Is that your position?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Theseus said:


> FULL STOP. I never said he was forcing his wife.
> 
> Post # 194 , yesterday @ 6.57.
> 
> " I am just saying that if you have to keep your wife faithful by forcing her to stay with you/vacation with you, then your marriage is already over. Without using analogies, that's the simplest way I can put it. That's all..
> ~ Theseus."
> 
> However, several members here on TAM certainly want him to. They are encouraging him to force his wife to stay home through threats of divorce and by "manning up" over an issue that's no threat to him whatsoever. That's like doing invasive surgery on a healthy person.
> 
> So the OP enforcing his marital boundaries equates him " forcing his wife to stay home?"
> And how exactly do you know that this issue is not an actual threat to the OP's marriage , real or perceived?"
> Because Thesesus said so?
> 
> Fail.
> 
> A person's perception is often a person's reality , and in this case, that's what matters.
> The wife perceives that she's entitled to a solo vacation without her husband , the OP feels hurt , because he perceives that she's crossing a boundary.
> They've NEVER either agreed to solo vacations nor done it before.
> What makes her perception and entitlement more important than his perception?
> .
> 
> That's like doing invasive surgery on a healthy person.
> 
> Right there is where your bias towards open relationships begin to show.
> Any spouse is well within their right to protect their marriage relationship when they perceive it's in danger. If a spouse thinks something is not normal , in a healthy relationship , the atmosphere is always one that encourages open dialogue about their feelings without the fear or intimidation.
> 
> Again WTF??? Maybe I believe in global warming and the OP does not. You want to discuss that too? Because that's about as relevant.
> 
> You have some obsession on bringing open marriage into this. No one else keeps harping on it. That's not the topic of this discussion and the OP hasn't said he's considering it.
> 
> That's because your boundaries are clearly different to the OP's.
> Please own your stuff. That's what men do.
> You are obsessed with open marriages.
> On numerous times on TAM you have advised different OP's facing similar situations that they should consider the option of open marriages.
> If you want, I WILL post it here.
> 
> BTW, just for the record, not that I should have to explain anything, but I don't "believe in" open marriage any more than *I simply believe that any couple has the right to decide their own type of marriage they want.*
> 
> :iagree: FULL STOP.
> So please STOP with the "Saudi Arabia " reference to the OP and other people who are not comfortable with their wives or husbands going on solo vacations.
> Every couple has the right to determine their own marital boundaries.
> 
> 
> 
> Boundaries have to be agreed on by BOTH partners. Unless they agreed before the marriage on no solo vacations, then this wasn't a mutually agreed on boundary.
> 
> And Thesesus or anybody here doesn't know for sure whether they both agreed on no solo vacations before, implicitly or explicitly.
> 
> You also have to consider which boundaries are even reasonable.
> 
> No.
> You're contradicting yourself, and projecting your values on another person's marriage. Again , right there is where your obsession with open marriages begin to seep in.
> Your boundaries are radically different.
> Please , know yourself and stop the sophistry.
> Neither you or I have that authority over another person's marital boundary.Two paragraphs above you said;
> 
> *" I simply believe that any couple has the right to decide their own type of marriage they want..."~ Thesesus.*
> 
> It's not up to us to decide if the OP's marital bounds are " reasonable." Because what's reasonable to Thesesus or CM might not be workable with the OP.
> 
> One spouse should be able to prevent the other from traveling alone? Is that your position?
> 
> A RESOUNDING YES.
> Dr, Harley in Marriage Builders call it the Policy Of Joint Agreement.
> You can find it here:
> 
> The Policy of Joint Agreement
> 
> In fully functional , healthy marriages , both partners have veto powers over each other, unless of course a man wishes to enter into a slave / mistress arrangement with his wife where she has full ownership and control of him. But again, that is their agreed marital / personal boundary and nobody outside of that marriage has the authority
> to tell them it's unreasonable.


----------



## ReformedHubby

On these threads I can only go on what the OP says. Based on what little has been shared the only thing that seems odd to me is that she told him over the phone, and that she wants to go on the trip even though they are broke.

A trip to visit an aunt and uncle sounds really tame to me. If its about the money then maybe she shouldn't go but otherwise I don't really see anything wrong with it. 

There are a lot of scenarios on TAM where my Danger Will Robinson alarm goes off. This isn't one of them.


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> In fully functional , healthy marriages , both partners have veto powers over each other, unless of course a man wishes to enter into a slave / mistress arrangement with his wife where she has full ownership and control of him. But again, that is their agreed marital / personal boundary and nobody outside of that marriage has the authority
> to tell them it's unreasonable. (Dr, Harley in Marriage Builders)


The thing I see wrong with this is that the dynamic is not always appropriate in every relationship to use "veto powers".

And given that there is a severe lack of info on the dynamic between OP and his wife, giving such advice may make things worse for OP.

If the OP's wife is a strongheaded and independent woman, and he says "honey, I'm going to have to veto this one. This book says it's okay to do so.", her response may not do him any favors. They may still have a great marriage (we don't know), and telling her something like this may affect it greatly.

This, CM, and others, has been the issue I've had with this thread - people are not only jumping to conclusions, but are handing out advice based upon very little information on the OP's background and history with his wife, and what, if any, issues they have outside of this one.

On their own, most of it is not bad advice, per se. But none of us know enough about OP's situation and/or marriage to say some of the things that have been said here.

For all we know, OP's wife would not ever cheat on her husband in a million years. He could be the greatest thing that's ever happened to her. If OP takes the "advice" to search her phone records, record her conversations, etc. and she finds out, that could be a deal breaker for her, and any trust she had in HIM, could be gone, gone gone.

If it's never been an issue in their marriage before, and it's nothing that's EVER crossed her mind, then how does he explain himself when he gets caught? Doesn't mistrust also show a lack of confidence?

Same is true for the vetoing. I CAN see how he can veto the trip based around, say, the finances, but he's already said that it's a relative non-issue. And that's something she can have a million responses to. If she doesn't just say "okay, you're right, we can't afford it", then he's screwed, and the only way the veto power will stick is if he just pushes it on her. And THAT can't be healthy. Wouldn't that create a resentment for him?

He's in a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. And that isn't very nice of the wife to put him in that.

But, to her, if this is completely innocent, and she just needs to decompress, then she doesn't see it that way (and rightfully so).

MY opinion from the start was that it's a mountain being made of a molehill. OP is hurt that the wife wants to get away without him. I can understand, if they've never gone anywhere apart in 17 years.

But there is so much talk here of being confident in relationships with your spouse, and with yourself, and how important that is to the dynamic and how your partner sees you.

The advice given here would make OP seem anything BUT confident UNLESS there's a history of cheating or mistrust. There's also a confidence in being able to be apart from your spouse and not having to have yourself attached at the hip at all times.

If they've had a great marriage for all these years, they've both been honest and loyal, then doesn't OP owe it to his wife to trust her implicitly in this case (being the first time she's apparently ever wanted to get away on her own)?

So, in a nutshell, most of the advice given here hasn't been based on the OP's situation, but rather on some of our own experiences, in which we've read into a little more than we should. We know about this situation ONLY, and nothing about the OP and his wife, and their history. The only correct responses should have been "we need to know more about you guys before anybody says anything potentially harmful".

A huge problem on TAM is, that a few people read these as case studies, rather than as the posters being real people. CM, I don't believe you're one. Your advice is almost always applicable, and you're blunt, which isn't a bad thing. However, you have your hand in so many posts at any given time, that's it's not difficult to lose sight of things from time to time. I don't know what your backstory is, or how/why you ended up on TAM. I know why I'm here, and many others (including those who certainly appear to want to use this place as an outlet). Your advice is usually quite good, you're obviously intelligent and feisty. But maybe some of us, myself included, need to take a step back into the real world once in a while and not worry about other people's problems so much.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Alex,

TAM is a self help forum for marriage, all sorts of dynamics exist here. That's the nature of the forum.

There are three scenarios / groups playing out on this thread.

1]Those who believe the wife is entitled to do what she wants based only on the fact that she's a wife and mother.
I am not in that group.

2]Those who believe , based on the wife's dubious actions , she's heading into cheating territory.
I am not in that group.

3]Those who aren't sure what's going down because of a lack of information on tangential issues , but think that something is wrong, and the OP has a right to feel the way he does.
I am solidly in that group.

My very first post was just two sentences:
Post # 27
" _Something's puzzling about this.
Some background information is missing.._."

If your wife of 17 yrs suddenly in one day ,called you from work, decided she wanted a new BMW because her car broke , emptied your joint account and came home with the new BMW the very day, and told you she saw nothing wrong with her actions,
You too would be worried.
Well that's the position the OP's in right now.

He's outside of the loop with respect to his wife's actions and feeling confused.
Again, in a healthy marriage, a husband or wife's actions aren't based on whether they come across as clingy or insecure to their partner.
Their actions are based solely on love and respect for each other.
Never out of fear.
In our marriage, if I can't question any of my wife's actions, then I ain't man enough for her. Nothing is off limits.
And when she's ready , she questions me and I'd better have the right answers.

I'm a firm believer in the concept of people owning their sh!t.
In relationships ,we show people exactly how to treat us by what we accept from them and how we react to it.

It's called human nature.

If the OP's wife is stressed and wants to go for a holiday, all she has to do is discuss it with her husband of 17 years, listen to his concerns , address them and then come to a mutually acceptable solution.
Anything outside of that leads to chaos and confusion.
That's why the OP's here in the first place.

Whether or not she goes on that solo vacation is inconsequential at this point IMO, because it's already too late.
How he handles the aftermath is what counts now.

1]He could let it pass, and sooner or later she would do it again and claim precedent.

2]He could decide to be the passive aggressive " nice guy " ,take a trip of his own in revenge and future conflicts would only get worse.
Little disagreements would snowball causing huge resentments.

3]He could address this issue firmly after, get her to agree on some firm boundaries, and also agree on an activity that she would enjoy or they could do together that allows her to get some stress relief.


----------



## bandit.45

He should just let her go. 

If she is going for the purposes of cheating, there is not a damn thing he can do. If he refuses to let her go then he will only come across as a controlling, selfish jerk. 

If she cheats and he finds out, then he can make a decision. 

It sounds to me like there are far deeper problems in this marriage, and her wanting to flee for a week is just a sign of her discontent. 

He can't control her, all he can do is control how he reacts if it is indeed a case of her wanting to go have a fling.


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Caribbean Man said:


> <snip>


LOLWUT! Srs? is that guy a cuckold fetishist? and he's in here arguing til he's blue in the face for the right of the wife to go on a beach holiday on her own? :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm dying here...you can't make this shtt up.

What's that saying "Never ask a fox advice on henhouse security"


----------



## Theseus

Caribbean Man said:


> Post # 194 , yesterday @ 6.57.
> 
> " I am just saying that if you have to keep your wife faithful by forcing her to stay with you/vacation with you, then your marriage is already over. Without using analogies, that's the simplest way I can put it. That's all..
> ~ Theseus."


The "you" in that statement was meant in plural form, not singular. But even if you didn't read it that way, the word "if" is a pretty strong indicator that I'm not making a specific accusation. 



> _So the OP enforcing his marital boundaries equates him " forcing his wife to stay home?"
> _


If he forces her to stay home, then yes, his goal apparently is to force her to stay home. Isn't that common sense?



> _And how exactly do you know that this issue is not an actual threat to the OP's marriage , real or perceived?"
> Because Thesesus said so?_


Because the OP said so. He didn't indicate any evidence of a threat to their marriage or suspicion of unfaithfulness on her part. If he comes back and says he suspects her of cheating because of "x, y, or z", then I would certainly better understand his objection to the trip. But I would still tell him or anyone that you can't keep your spouse faithful by force. And I consider enforcing a unilateral boundary that your spouse never agreed to as "force". 



> _What makes her perception and entitlement more important than his perception?_


Turn that around. What makes his perception and entitlement more important to you? 

If it were the husband who wanted to go on a solo vacation, I would fully support him also. 



> _Please own your stuff. That's what men do.
> You are obsessed with open marriages.
> On numerous times on TAM you have advised different OP's facing similar situations that they should consider the option of open marriages.
> If you want, I WILL post it here.
> _




Not going to "own" that in this thread because you are the one who wants to keep bringing it up. It seems like your real problem here is that I ever suggest open marriages, and you've been aching for an excuse to bring it up. Frankly, 99% of the time when I suggest them on TAM, it's as the last course of action before divorce, such as when someone is miserable in a sexless marriage. It can shock their partner back to reality, to see how bad their marriage has deteriorated. You might consider that against the sanctity of marriage, but when someone hasn't had sex with their spouse for years, I don't think they are really married anymore anyway, except on paper. 

But that doesn't apply here because it doesn't sound like the OP's situation. 



> _So please STOP with the "Saudi Arabia " reference to the OP and other people who are not comfortable with their wives or husbands going on solo vacations.
> Every couple has the right to determine their own marital boundaries._


That's just the point. A couple has the right to determine boundaries. In this case, you have one partner unilaterally deciding them, and that's not healthy. 



> _A RESOUNDING YES.
> Dr, Harley in Marriage Builders call it the Policy Of Joint Agreement.
> You can find it here:
> 
> The Policy of Joint Agreement
> 
> In fully functional , healthy marriages , both partners have veto powers over each other, unless of course a man wishes to enter into a slave / mistress arrangement with his wife where she has full ownership and control of him. But again, that is their agreed marital / personal boundary and nobody outside of that marriage has the authority
> to tell them it's unreasonable._


Well, then this is something on which you and I will just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of Dr. Harley for several reasons I won't get into here. And this policy of "joint agreement" is often a bad idea also. What if a wife wants to finish high school but her husband strongly objects because he doesn't want his wife to be educated? Should he really be able to veto that? I see solo vacations the same way. That's what I meant when I say you have to consider what boundaries are reasonable.


----------



## SolidSnake

I agree with Carribean Man about the policy of joint agreement. It's not exactly gospel here on TAM, but I think it is reasonable because both peoples needs are respected. I don't think you have the right to tell your spouse "I am doing this even if it makes you uncomfortable, get over it."

For everyone who is relating stories about how separate vacations work great in your marriage, that's great for YOU, but NOT FOR THE OP. 

It's the principle of the thing, not the particulars, that we are really debating here. 

To illustrate the principle, put yourself in the OPs shoes and imagine that your partner wanted to do a trip that you weren't comfortable with. Forget the tame Florida vacation or the London shopping holiday. What if your partner wanted to go party in Vegas or Ibiza or someplace similar, without you. Say you expressed concern about the proposed trip and your partner told you "I'm going and I don't care what you think about it."

This is the principle that Carribean Man and I are talking about. It's wrong to just do what you want and ignore your spouses feelings. 

Sure, maybe what the OPs wife is asking for is tame and reasonable by your standards, but the point is that it makes him uncomfortable, or he wouldn't be here. Hence, policy of joint agreement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Theseus

Caribbean Man said:


> 1]Those who believe the wife is entitled to do what she wants based only on the fact that she's a wife and mother.
> I am not in that group.


I suppose I am in that "group" but I wouldn't phrase it that way. I would simply say the wife is entitled to have some time alone based only on the fact that she's a human being.


----------



## SolidSnake

Theseus said:


> I suppose I am in that "group" but I wouldn't phrase it that way. I would simply say the wife is entitled to have some time alone based only on the fact that she's a human being.


I agree, but being entitled to time alone is not what is being debated, or at least it shouldn't be, because I don't think anyone is contesting that she should be able to relax. 

What is being debated is specifically HOW the OPs wife wants to spend her alone time. The OP is not comfortable with the proposed trip to Florida without him. I assume that there are compromises that would let her spend time alone relaxing, but that would not at the same time bother her husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SolidSnake

Theseus said:


> The "you" in that statement was meant in plural form, not singular. But even if you didn't read it that way, the word "if" is a pretty strong indicator that I'm not making a specific accusation.
> 
> 
> 
> If he forces her to stay home, then yes, his goal apparently is to force her to stay home. Isn't that common sense?
> 
> 
> 
> Because the OP said so. He didn't indicate any evidence of a threat to their marriage or suspicion of unfaithfulness on her part. If he comes back and says he suspects her of cheating because of "x, y, or z", then I would certainly better understand his objection to the trip. But I would still tell him or anyone that you can't keep your spouse faithful by force. And I consider enforcing a unilateral boundary that your spouse never agreed to as "force".
> 
> 
> 
> Turn that around. What makes his perception and entitlement more important to you?
> 
> If it were the husband who wanted to go on a solo vacation, I would fully support him also.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not going to "own" that in this thread because you are the one who wants to keep bringing it up. It seems like your real problem here is that I ever suggest open marriages, and you've been aching for an excuse to bring it up. Frankly, 99% of the time when I suggest them on TAM, it's as the last course of action before divorce, such as when someone is miserable in a sexless marriage. It can shock their partner back to reality, to see how bad their marriage has deteriorated. You might consider that against the sanctity of marriage, but when someone hasn't had sex with their spouse for years, I don't think they are really married anymore anyway, except on paper.
> 
> But that doesn't apply here because it doesn't sound like the OP's situation.
> 
> 
> 
> That's just the point. A couple has the right to determine boundaries. In this case, you have one partner unilaterally deciding them, and that's not healthy.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, then this is something on which you and I will just have to agree to disagree. I'm not a fan of Dr. Harley for several reasons I won't get into here. And this policy of "joint agreement" is often a bad idea also. What if a wife wants to finish high school but her husband strongly objects because he doesn't want his wife to be educated? Should he really be able to veto that? I see solo vacations the same way. That's what I meant when I say you have to consider what boundaries are reasonable.


Well, I think the POJ is supposed to apply to planned activities like hobbies and vacations, but I deffinitly see your point. I think POJ is predicated on a certain amount of good will, the ability to happily negotiate solutions, and reasonability. In other words, a healthy relationship. Harley explicitly states that it should not be used in abusive relationships.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## melw74

Its quite shocking reading some of these posts.

I respect my husband way to much to even want to go away without him. 

My husband is up by 3 am every morning, and he works full-time, he works bloody hard to provide for us, earn money so we are able to even have one holiday a year.

Yes, I am a SAHM i do the majority of the household chores, and look after the children most of the time, but i think its the least i can do, yes its stressful, but so is a lot of things in life, but i do not feel the need to up and have time away alone. 

I just really think its a bit off, but i suppose were all different.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SolidSnake said:


> *I agree, but being entitled to time alone is not what is being debated, or at least it shouldn't be, because I don't think anyone is contesting that she should be able to relax. *
> 
> What is being debated is specifically HOW the OPs wife wants to spend her alone time. *The OP is not comfortable with the proposed trip to Florida without him. I assume that there are compromises that would let her spend time alone relaxing, but that would not at the same time bother her husband.*


:iagree:
Exactly so!
Everybody's just projecting their own issues into the thread 
[ which is quite normal and perhaps acceptable to a point, given the nature of TAM], but everybody seems to have forgotten what the central issue that started the debate is.


----------



## Theseus

SolidSnake said:


> I agree, but being entitled to time alone is not what is being debated, or at least it shouldn't be, because I don't think anyone is contesting that she should be able to relax.
> 
> What is being debated is specifically HOW the OPs wife wants to spend her alone time. The OP is not comfortable with the proposed trip to Florida without him. I assume that there are compromises that would let her spend time alone relaxing, but that would not at the same time bother her husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Anything is possible, and if they find a compromise, that's great. But I'm much less optimistic.

She wants real time away from family, and wants a change of scenery (like the beach). It really doesn't sound like there's a compromise here that would please both sides.


----------



## SolidSnake

melw74 said:


> Its quite shocking reading some of these posts.
> 
> I respect my husband way to much to even want to go away without him.
> 
> My husband is up by 3 am every morning, and he works full-time, he works bloody hard to provide for us, earn money so we are able to even have one holiday a year.
> 
> Yes, I am a SAHM i do the majority of the household chores, and look after the children most of the time, but i think its the least i can do, yes its stressful, but so is a lot of things in life, but i do not feel the need to up and have time away alone.
> 
> I just really think its a bit off, but i suppose were all different.


I agree. I don't want to vacation without my husband either. Not a SAHM though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SolidSnake

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:
> Exactly so!
> Everybody's just projecting their own issues into the thread
> [ which is quite normal and perhaps acceptable to a point, given the nature of TAM], but everybody seems to have forgotten what the central issue that started the debate is.


I agree. We both have been saying similar things here....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SolidSnake

Theseus said:


> Anything is possible, and if they find a compromise, that's great. But I'm much less optimistic.
> 
> She wants real time away from family, and wants a change of scenery like the beach. It really doesn't sound like there's a compromise here that would please both sides.


I guess, if you are completely negative and uncreative. I would think there would be pretty much endless possibilities. People who aren't willing to compromise on smaller issues like this probably have bigger issues in their marriages.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## melw74

SolidSnake said:


> I agree. I don't want to vacation without my husband either. Not a SAHM though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I just could not imagine it. The thought of it is awful

Saying that tho, I could not imagine spending any length of time away from him, I could not imagine being on a beach without him and the kids.

I would rather not have a holiday at all.

Its because my husband works as hard as he does that i am able to be a SAHM, and be home with my younger child.


----------



## Holland

melw74 said:


> I just could not imagine it. The thought of it is awful
> 
> Saying that tho, I could not imagine spending any length of time away from him, I could not imagine being on a beach without him and the kids.
> 
> I would rather not have a holiday at all.
> 
> Its because my husband works as hard as he does that i am able to be a SAHM, and be home with my younger child.


Which is wonderful but not relevant to the OP. Besides that his wife works out of the home as well and if she needs to take the opportunity to destress then so be it, there is nothing wrong with that at all. 

Some people need time out, others don't, neither is right or wrong. People should be free to do what is good for them and not be bound by other peoples idea of what everyone should be doing.


----------



## melw74

Holland said:


> Which is wonderful but not relevant to the OP. Besides that his wife works out of the home as well and if she needs to take the opportunity to destress then so be it, there is nothing wrong with that at all.
> 
> Some people need time out, others don't, neither is right or wrong. People should be free to do what is good for them and not be bound by other peoples idea of what everyone should be doing.


What others do is not my concern, but like others i have an opinion so i am going to put mine across.

A marriage is a partnership. Why should one feel that they have had enough, things are too stressful and decide they want to go lie on a beach somewhere.??

I would love to to sunabathe on a beach all day and be stress free, Hey i am sure we all would, but in reality its not really possible is it.???

Of course its relevant to OP, They both work hard, but she feels that its okay to want to leave her hubby and the kids and go vacation alone, I work hard in the home, and my hubby works hard out the home, Like i say it can be stressful, and it is sometimes for my hubby, and it is for me, but neither feel the need that its so bad we want to get away...... 

1) we could not afford it

2) we would not want to vacation alone.

3) we have a family children that need us both.

You say that the wife needs time out to distress, but i say does the hubby not feel sometimes he needs time to de stress????...... I mean hes already voiced here on this thread that hes not comfortable with her going away alone, and the man has given his reasons, and i am sorry she should respect that he does not like the idea..... and before anybody says, yes i would say the same if it was the other way round.

Maybe if people want to go away on their own, then maybe they should think about things before they settle down, get married and have kids..... Because when you do these things there are some things that are not possible to do, even tho the thought of doing them sounds great.

Of course people need time out and need to de stress, but there are other ways to do it..... Is holidaying alone one of them.

Of course people are free to do what they want, but when your married, their are other people you also need to consider too.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I think serious problems inevitably occur when two people get married with the entitlements mindset and an expectation of living a single or separate lifestyle.
That problem is magnified to unthinkable proportions when children arrive.
A wife is as entitled to a solo vacation as her husband is entitled to great sex five times / day , even during her period.
Both "entitlements" are simply non existent.

But throw in some good old fashioned love ,a good communication , respect and voila! The wife is always willing and able to please her husband sexual desires, and the husband has absolutely no problem fulfilling his wife's needs _and wants_.

The dynamics of every marriage changes over time and it's up to the couple to constantly evaluate and meet each other's needs.

You can only get out of your marriage exactly what you put into it.


----------



## melw74

Caribbean Man said:


> I think serious problems inevitably occur when two people get married with the entitlements mindset and an expectation of living a single or separate lifestyle.
> That problem is magnified to unthinkable proportions when children arrive.
> A wife is as entitled to a solo vacation as her husband is entitled to great sex five times / day , even during her period.
> Both "entitlements" are simply non existent.
> 
> But throw in some good old fashioned love ,a good communication , respect and voila! The wife is always willing and able to please her husband sexual desires, and the husband has absolutely no problem fulfilling his wife's needs _and wants_.
> 
> The dynamics of every marriage changes over time and it's up to the couple to constantly evaluate and meet each other's needs.
> 
> You can only get out of your marriage exactly what you put into it.


All of this^^^^^^^. Very very well said.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My husband and I will take vacations without each other. I personally don't see it as a big deal. He goes more often then I since he goes hunting and fishing in Alaska. I'm all for 40lbs of fresh wild salmon when he comes home. I will leave to visit my friend in CA that I met online nearly 12 years ago. We are very good friends. My trips are much shorter then my husbands. He will leave up to 2 weeks for a trip and I'll leave for 4-5 nights. 

We use frequent flyer miles, so cost is not an issue. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't go.

We also take vacations as a family or with each other, but lately that hasn't been possible. This is something we've both agreed on.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My husband and I will take vacations without each other. I personally don't see it as a big deal. He goes more often then I since he goes hunting and fishing in Alaska. I'm all for 40lbs of fresh wild salmon when he comes home. I will leave to visit my friend in CA that I met online nearly 12 years ago. We are very good friends. My trips are much shorter then my husbands. He will leave up to 2 weeks for a trip and I'll leave for 4-5 nights.
> 
> We use frequent flyer miles, so cost is not an issue. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't go.
> 
> *We also take vacations as a family or with each other, but lately that hasn't been possible. This is something we've both agreed on.*


And that's what makes it possible and free of conflict.

You both agreed on it before.

The same applies to my wife and I.


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> I think serious problems inevitably occur when two people get married with the entitlements mindset and an expectation of living a single or separate lifestyle.
> That problem is magnified to unthinkable proportions when children arrive.
> A wife is as entitled to a solo vacation as her husband is entitled to great sex five times / day , even during her period.
> Both "entitlements" are simply non existent.
> 
> But throw in some good old fashioned love ,a good communication , respect and voila! The wife is always willing and able to please her husband sexual desires, and the husband has absolutely no problem fulfilling his wife's needs _and wants_.
> 
> The dynamics of every marriage changes over time and it's up to the couple to constantly evaluate and meet each other's needs.
> 
> You can only get out of your marriage exactly what you put into it.


Depends on the marriage. I know very happily married people who believe going on separate vacations now and then is actually good for their marriage, and it shows.


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> And that's what makes it possible and free of conflict.
> 
> You both agreed on it before.


So who says her bringing it up to him isn't the first stage of them coming to the same agreement? You can't have an agreement without talking about it. If he realizes she really isn't 'looking for sex' and really just wants to decompress - after they hopefully had some more conversation about it - he may be happy for her to do so. 

Of course, since OP never came back, we'll never know.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> So who says her bringing it up to him isn't the first stage of them coming to the same agreement? You can't have an agreement without talking about it. If he realizes she really isn't 'looking for sex' and really just wants to decompress - after they hopefully had some more conversation about it - he may be happy for her to do so.
> 
> Of course, since OP never came back, we'll never know.


I think that's a hulleva a way to start a conversation with serious implications like that, after more than 17 years of marriage.
I could come up with a million other conversation starters given the exact scenario , that would have yielded a much better response, in my favour ,from any gender, male or female.
But that might just be the creative ,artistic side of me ,
Or just the experience that comes with the equivalent amount of years in marriage,as the OP.

Therein lies not just the the OP's but mostly his wife's problem.


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> I think that's a hulleva a way to start a conversation with serious implications like that, after more than 17 years of marriage.


Maybe that's just the way they talk.


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> Maybe that's just the way they talk.



If it was, then logically he wouldn't have been here looking for help to understand.


----------



## bandit.45

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby said:


> My husband and I will take vacations without each other. I personally don't see it as a big deal. He goes more often then I since he goes hunting and fishing in Alaska. I'm all for 40lbs of fresh wild salmon when he comes home. I will leave to visit my friend in CA that I met online nearly 12 years ago. We are very good friends. My trips are much shorter then my husbands. He will leave up to 2 weeks for a trip and I'll leave for 4-5 nights.
> 
> We use frequent flyer miles, so cost is not an issue. If we couldn't afford it, we wouldn't go.
> 
> We also take vacations as a family or with each other, but lately that hasn't been possible. This is something we've both agreed on.


I'm sick of women using hunting trips as something equitable to what women do when they go on vacation by themselves or with girlfriends. 

When I'm out hunting...I hunt. Here in the desert southwest where I live it is brutal, hard-ass sweat-work...every minute of it.

I hike anywehere from 10 to 15 miles a day with a 30 pound pack and a 10 pound rifle strapped to my back. 

I don't sleep in until 9:00 a.m. I don't wander down to the hotel lobby for the daily breakfast buffet. I don't lounge around in the mud springs getting a facial, manicure and full body deep tissue massage. I don't break away from deer camp to hit the nearby clothing boutiques. 

I don't drive the fifty miles back to the nearest saloon every night to dance with strange women and get drunk... I'm usually so exhausted that I am asleep when my head hits the pillow at 8:00 p.m.

And I certainly am not out there to socialize and meet people, especially members of the opposite sex. In fact, outside of my hunting buddies, I'm lucky if I run into another human being for the four or five days a year that I'm out there. 

So all of you TAM ladies who use men's hunting trips as comparable to women hitting beach resorts, nightclubs and Las Vegas as equitable pastimes?..... They are not equitable or even remotely the same. Please do not insult our intelligence.


----------



## turnera

Caribbean Man said:


> If it was, then logically he wouldn't have been here looking for help to understand.


Maybe it's never been about taking separate vacations before.


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> When I'm out hunting...I hunt.


When I'm out lying on a hammock by the ocean...I'm out lying on a hammock by the ocean. What's the difference?

OH, yeah, cos the woman MUST be wanting to screw someone. She IS female, after all. 

:lol:


----------



## turnera

bandit.45 said:


> And I certainly am not out there to socialize and meet people, especially members of the opposite sex. In fact, outside of my hunting buddies, I'm lucky if I run into another human being for the four or five days a year that I'm out there.


Show me where she said she wanted to go to the beach and socialize or meet men.


----------



## manfromlamancha

finsrule are you still around ?


----------



## Caribbean Man

turnera said:


> When I'm out lying on a hammock by the ocean...I'm out lying on a hammock by the ocean. What's the difference?


Would you be willing to switch your vacation on the beach in a hammock with your husband's hunting trip?

My hunting trips are usually days in the jungle without baths , defecating in the bushes , mosquito bites and food cooked over a wood fire.
Just me and four or five others.
No room service, sight seeing or warm baths.
As much as I enjoy it, I seriously don't think it's a " solo vacation.."


----------



## bandit.45

turnera said:


> Show me where she said she wanted to go to the beach and socialize or meet men.


I wasn't talking about the OP's wife. I was making a generalized statement about how many of the female TAM posters are constantly throwing this hunting trip stuff up as something comparable to their holidays. 

Hunting may be a pastime, but more often than not it is faaaaar from a vacation. 

If you looked at my responses to the OP, I keep telling him to let his wife go on her lone vacation. Personally I think its selfish and sh!tty for her to go without him, but if she feels this is her way to decompress, then he should let her go. Do I think she is going there to meet a guy and fvck? I don't know. Probably not. 

I don't believe any husband should try to strongarm or control his wife. He should only control what he will do if she steps over the marital boundaries. 

By the way, laying on a beach for more than one day is boring enough to make me want to chew my lower lip off. Why any person would see laying on a beach for multiple days as something to look forward to is beyond me.


----------



## alexm

I think people are making the connection between vacation and hunting trip based on the fact that it's a getaway from "real life" and one's spouse. As in "no spouses allowed".

OP's wife wants to go somewhere without her husband. Most dudes I know who hunt wouldn't bring their wife under any circumstances. What's the diff?

Whether it's on your own, or with your buddies doesn't seem to be an issue to the OP. I could be wrong. Perhaps he wouldn't be worked up about it if his wife said she and her girlfriends were planning on a beach vacation, no husbands.

The amount of work one does while on these trips away from family is irrelevant.

Finally, a few women here - the ones who have little issue with a longtime wife and mother wanting a little "alone time" - pretty much unanimously say THEY wouldn't be looking for anything other than relaxation. Some of the men (SOME, not all) don't buy this.

The men here who advocate for hunting getaways with the guys, and say THEY absolutely would not be trolling for other women are saying the same thing as the women who have no problem with solo vacations.

The hunting widow sitting at home ASSUMES it's just a guys weekend, and there's zero chance of anything funny going on. But how do they know, any more than the husband who's sitting at home while his wife is on a beach? Because it's more readily available in the wife's situation? Plenty of women hunt these days. Who's to say Joe Blow isn't bringing his mistress hunting with him?

The hunting trip vs. beach vacation argument doesn't do a whole lot to prove anybody's point. Same things CAN happen, potentially, at either place, if they really, really want it. Sure, it's "easier" to find that on a beach in Florida, but the men who are advocating blind trust to their wives when they go off hunting are no different than the women who are advocating the same thing for a vacation with girlfriends, or solo.

Besides, the end result is the same - you sit on a beach and forget your troubles. You go hunting for a week, and you forget your troubles.


----------



## barbados

Any update OP ?


----------



## bandit.45

alexm said:


> The hunting trip vs. beach vacation argument doesn't do a whole lot to prove anybody's point. Same things CAN happen, potentially, at either place, if they really, really want it. Sure, it's "easier" to find that on a beach in Florida, but the men who are advocating blind trust to their wives when they go off hunting are no different than the women who are advocating the same thing for a vacation with girlfriends, or solo.
> 
> Besides, the end result is the same - you sit on a beach and forget your troubles. You go hunting for a week, and you forget your troubles.


Well all I know is that the places I hunt have no nightclubs, no half-nude beautiful men and women walking around in bathing suits, no bartenders, no 5 star hotels with jacuzzis in the rooms... 

Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, Panama City.... all these FL cities cater to the beach crowd... which is where this woman is heading...by herself...

Booze, nightclubs, booze, cabanas, sunsets, booze, bronzed hunky guys walking around all buff and available.

Nah... her husband has nothing to worry about. He should let her go.


----------



## alexm

bandit.45 said:


> Well all I know is that the places I hunt have no nightclubs, no half-nude beautiful men and women walking around in bathing suits, no bartenders, no 5 star hotels with jacuzzis in the rooms...
> 
> Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, Panama City.... all these FL cities cater to the beach crowd... which is where this woman is heading...by herself...
> 
> Booze, nightclubs, booze, cabanas, sunsets, booze, bronzed hunky guys walking around all buff and available.
> 
> Nah... her husband has nothing to worry about. He should let her go.


But that's kind of my point, and I've seen this point made in this thread, as well as others.

If somebody is going to cheat, they'll do it, regardless of where they are.

If I were a hunter, I'd probably not be entertaining the thought of cheating while on a hunting trip, obviously. But... you never know. Just as one doesn't know for certain that this will happen on a beach vacation. Blind trust shouldn't be given in either case, if one's spouse isn't into blind trust at all times.


----------



## melw74

barbados said:


> Any update OP ?


Nope. Were here all arguing among ourselves


----------



## manfromlamancha

melw74 said:


> Nope. Were here all arguing among ourselves


Exactly!


----------



## WyshIknew

However I don't see that the fact that we have been arguing amongst ourselves as a problem.

Good and varied advice with healthy discussion is good, varied and healthy irrespective of the presence of the OP.

Although the OP asked the question we can all learn from each other and we might also help some lurkers.


----------



## Caribbean Man

I think the OP got his questions answered in the first three pages.


----------



## bandit.45

alexm said:


> But that's kind of my point, and I've seen this point made in this thread, as well as others.
> 
> If somebody is going to cheat, they'll do it, regardless of where they are.
> 
> If I were a hunter, I'd probably not be entertaining the thought of cheating while on a hunting trip, obviously. But... you never know. Just as one doesn't know for certain that this will happen on a beach vacation. Blind trust shouldn't be given in either case, if one's spouse isn't into blind trust at all times.


Well if a woman wanted to cheat with me on a huinting trip she would have to put up with 

1) My sweaty, smelly, nasty body and a beard that could shred asphalt; 

2) A single wide canvas cot;

3) Dusty tent, no public toilets, food out of a can and no booze...I don't drink and I don't allow alcohol on my hunts. 

I don't think a chick would want to screw me after I've been humping it up and down mountains all day. 

No more threadjacking...my rant is done.


----------



## bandit.45

melw74 said:


> Nope. Were here all arguing among ourselves


No. Spirited debate. :smthumbup:


----------



## Vega

bandit.45 said:


> Well all I know is that the places I hunt have no nightclubs, no half-nude beautiful men and women walking around in bathing suits, no bartenders, no 5 star hotels with jacuzzis in the rooms...
> 
> Ft. Lauderdale, Miami Beach, Panama City.... all these FL cities cater to the beach crowd... which is where this woman is heading...by herself...
> 
> Booze, nightclubs, booze, cabanas, sunsets, booze, bronzed hunky guys walking around all buff and available.
> 
> Nah... her husband has nothing to worry about. He should let her go.


_*Siiiiigh*_ And yet, aNUTHER example of someone who is jumping to conclusions...

No where in the OPs posts did he say that his wife would be headed to ANY of these 'hot spots' in Florida. He simply said 'Florida'. While Florida DOES have beaches that cater to the younger crowd, there are plenty of beaches there that are more 'family oriented'. And yes, Florida DOES have beaches that cater to a more 'senior' crowd, as well as having PRIVATE beaches. 

We used to live in Florida, on the panhandle. We lived about a mile and a half from the beach. Even in the summer, hardly ANYONE was at the beach. Of the people who WERE there, it was mostly young mothers with their kids...

Like other posters have said, we really need more information from the OP before making any REASONABLE conclusions. Otherwise, it's all speculation with no substance. 

Vega


----------



## bandit.45

Vega said:


> _*Siiiiigh*_ And yet, aNUTHER example of someone who is jumping to conclusions...
> 
> No where in the OPs posts did he say that his wife would be headed to ANY of these 'hot spots' in Florida. He simply said 'Florida'. While Florida DOES have beaches that cater to the younger crowd, there are plenty of beaches there that are more 'family oriented'. And yes, Florida DOES have beaches that cater to a more 'senior' crowd, as well as having PRIVATE beaches.
> 
> We used to live in Florida, on the panhandle. We lived about a mile and a half from the beach. Even in the summer, hardly ANYONE was at the beach. Of the people who WERE there, it was mostly young mothers with their kids...
> 
> Like other posters have said, we really need more information from the OP before making any REASONABLE conclusions. Otherwise, it's all speculation with no substance.
> 
> Vega


Gulf Breeze had the only beaches with no people anywhere I've been in FL.

You lived at Orange Beach didn't you? Orange Beach isn't a beach. It's an effluence of the Mobile River. I went wading in that muck and my legs almost rotted off.


----------



## SolidSnake

Vega said:


> _*Siiiiigh*_ And yet, aNUTHER example of someone who is jumping to conclusions...
> 
> No where in the OPs posts did he say that his wife would be headed to ANY of these 'hot spots' in Florida. He simply said 'Florida'. While Florida DOES have beaches that cater to the younger crowd, there are plenty of beaches there that are more 'family oriented'. And yes, Florida DOES have beaches that cater to a more 'senior' crowd, as well as having PRIVATE beaches.
> 
> We used to live in Florida, on the panhandle. We lived about a mile and a half from the beach. Even in the summer, hardly ANYONE was at the beach. Of the people who WERE there, it was mostly young mothers with their kids...
> 
> Like other posters have said, we really need more information from the OP before making any REASONABLE conclusions. Otherwise, it's all speculation with no substance.
> 
> Vega


I think what Bandit was saying is that a party trip (not necessarily what the OPs wife had in mind) is not comparable to a hunting trip. 

Bandit, while I can see your point, I can also see that solo trips by either spouse for a chosen purpose or hobby are comparable. Even if the man is hunting and the woman on, say, a shopping trip (and not out partying), both the husband and the wife are choosing to pursue separate interests on a solo trip apart from their spouse.


----------



## bandit.45

SolidSnake said:


> I think what Bandit was saying is that a party trip (not necessarily what the OPs wife had in mind) is not comparable to a hunting trip.
> 
> Bandit, while I can see your point, I can also see that solo trips by either spouse for a chosen purpose or hobby are comparable. Even if the man is hunting and the woman on, say, a shopping trip (and not out partying), both the husband and the wife are choosing to pursue separate interests on a solo trip apart from their spouse.


Yeah but five days sitting on the beach? Five days? That's all she's going to do? Sit at the beach all day then go back to the aunt and uncles at night? 

Phbbbbbbttt. I don't buy it.


----------



## Vega

bandit.45 said:


> You lived at Orange Beach didn't you? Orange Beach isn't a beach. It's an effluence of the Mobile River. I went wading in that muck and my legs almost rotted off.


LOL!! No, I didn't live at Orange Beach. I lived in Navarre. If you know about Gulf Breeze, then you know what Navarre is like!


----------



## bandit.45

Vega said:


> LOL!! No, I didn't live at Orange Beach. I lived in Navarre. If you know about Gulf Breeze, then you know what Navarre is like!


I've been to Navarre. Beautiful place. 

Come to think of it, Ft. Walton has few people on weekdays.


----------



## Vega

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah but five days sitting on the beach? Five days? That's all she's going to do? Sit at the beach all day then go back to the aunt and uncles at night?
> 
> Phbbbbbbttt. I don't buy it.


Why not? Why don't you 'buy' it?


----------



## bandit.45

Vega said:


> Why not? Why don't you 'buy' it?


Vega...

Five days of sitting baking in the sun staring at the same water and same beach? 

I guess its because I'm a desert rat. I barely like the beach and I unlike the ocean that much more. 

To each her own. I hope he lets her go and comes back and tells us how it went.


----------



## Vega

bandit.45 said:


> Vega...
> 
> Five days of sitting baking in the sun staring at the same water and same beach?


Exactly! That may be the very _reason_ she's going! If she's going to a beach that's 'boring', then she'd only be going there to 'chill'... in the hot sun (excuse the pun...). Listening to nothing but the waves lapping up against the shore can be very soothing. It's just you alone with your own thoughts. Peaceful. Relaxing. No one making demands or 'requests' of your time. No one interrupting any thought that you have. 

Seems to me that she just needs a break. And after being married for 17 years, I think *I'd* be asking her, "What TOOK ya so long?"

Vega


----------



## norajane

bandit.45 said:


> Vega...
> 
> Five days of sitting baking in the sun staring at the same water and same beach?
> 
> I guess its because I'm a desert rat. I barely like the beach and I unlike the ocean that much more.
> 
> To each her own. I hope he lets her go and comes back and tells us how it went.


It's -14 here today. And will remain that way until Thursday or so. Yeah, would love to be lying on a beach instead, reading a book (!), listening to the waves and seagulls, so glad the crying brats down the beach aren't mine and getting my ipod to block them out, sipping some iced tea, knowing there's yummy seafood from the seafood shack to look forward to...you bet I would!


----------



## COGypsy

norajane said:


> It's -14 here today. And will remain that way until Thursday or so. Yeah, would love to be lying on a beach instead, reading a book (!), listening to the waves and seagulls, so glad the crying brats down the beach aren't mine and getting my ipod to block them out, sipping some iced tea, knowing there's yummy seafood from the seafood shack to look forward to...you bet I would!


I'm with you! My birthday/spring break trip to Scottsdale last year and Hawaii the year before were both spent doing nothing in particular. Laid out at the pool in AZ since the girlfriend I went with doesn't golf. Spent not quite 4 days with margaritas, magazines and a pool chair in the desert. I did switch pools every day though . We went out and hit it pretty hard at night, but we were both single this time last year, so why not? The year before I was on the Big Island for a week and a half, I drove the Saddle Road, went to the market in Hilo during some local holiday fair, hiked Volcano park, took sea kayaking lessons. All solo. Oh wait. I had breakfast and dinner one night with a really charming family that was at the same B&B I was staying at in Volcano...other than that, I talked mostly to park rangers and waitstaff.

Believe it or not, women like solitary adventures too. It's just most of us would prefer not to touch blood and guts doing it


----------



## Caribbean Man

One of the most beautiful things I like about TAM is the way the website is organized.

Scroll down to the end of this page, and you would see a header entitled 
" Similar Threads."

Inside that box you would notice five similar threads about this identical topic.
Ranging from 2009 - 2013.

Read through them and then something hits you wham in the face.

Five different years.
Five different OP's, both male & female.
Five different background stories, same problem.
Dozens of different posters , cumulatively , hundreds of responses.
And amazingly , the answer is overwhelmingly, NO.

Jus sayin'.


----------



## Caribbean Man

bandit.45 said:


> Vega...
> 
> Five days of sitting baking in the sun staring at the same water and same beach?
> 
> I guess its because I'm a desert rat. I barely like the beach and I unlike the ocean that much more.
> 
> To each her own. I hope he lets her go and comes back and tells us how it went.


:iagree:

And in hindsight your post makes a lot of sense.
I didn't look at it from that angle before.

My wife goes on vacations with her girlfriends, my mom goes with them, and they , neither she EVER sits FIVE DAYS on a beach.

Earlier this year they did St.Lucia, Pigeon Island, St Vincent, Canouan Island in one week. The tour was expensive , but worth it. They had lots of fun.

Absolutely NOBODY takes time off from work , flies to a tropical location just to sit on a beach for five days to " decompress."
Added to that, she specifically told him that he was not invited, no negotiation...
It's beginning to look fishy.
I'm not buying it, but we can only go with what the OP says.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man;6421193
Absolutely NOBODY takes time off from work said:


> Wow. CM, if this is what you believe, then you REALLY need to get out more and experience the world as IT is; and not as YOU are. With 7 BILLION + people on this planet, can you REALLY make the claim that "NOBODY" takes time off of work...to do this?
> 
> First of all, you have no idea how far from Florida they live. Secondly, the OP made no mention of her mode of transportation to get there. For all we know, they may live close enough to Florida for her to drive there.
> 
> Thirdly, we have no idea WHERE in Florida her aunt and uncle live. And there are many beaches in Florida that I would HARDLY refer to as..."tropical" (Sidenote to Bandit: CM obviously hasn't been to Gulf Breeze or Navarre...)
> 
> Lastly, there isn't even a HINT of "no negotiation". The OP has not told us what his response was. Like I said earlier, I'm certain that he didn't just stand there like a deer-caught-in-the-headlights. He had EVERY CHANCE to SPEAK UP.
> 
> Did he?
> 
> Vega
> 
> ETA: Whether she wants to go to stay with her aunt and uncle in Florida, or stay in a cabin in the mountains, the point is that she wants to be AWAY. Away from kids, away from work and yes...away from HUSBAND. Basically, she may want to be away from the "demands" of life...for ONE WEEK...out of 17 years.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> Wow. CM, if this is what you believe, then you REALLY need to get out more and experience the world as IT is; and not as YOU are. With 7 BILLION + people on this planet, can you REALLY make the claim that "NOBODY" takes time off of work...to do this?
> 
> First of all, you have no idea how far from Florida they live. Secondly, the OP made no mention of her mode of transportation to get there. For all we know, they may live close enough to Florida for her to drive there.
> 
> Thirdly, we have no idea WHERE in Florida her aunt and uncle live. And there are many beaches in Florida that I would HARDLY refer to as..."tropical" (Sidenote to Bandit: CM obviously hasn't been to Gulf Breeze or Navarre...)
> 
> Lastly, there isn't even a HINT of "no negotiation". The OP has not told us what his response was. Like I said earlier, I'm certain that he didn't just stand there like a deer-caught-in-the-headlights. He had EVERY CHANCE to SPEAK UP.
> 
> Did he?
> 
> Vega


Vega.

From where I live it only costs about US $300.00 to fly to Florida.

Gulf breeze or not, I am absolutely not taking FIVE DAYS OFF from work, especially if I'm only entitled to one or two weeks , spending $300.00 to come to Florida to lie on the beach for the entire FIVE DAYS.

And only a certain type of man would accept _that_ from his wife.

PS: I have friends and family who live down here, and they usually visit Miami over the weekends ,just to party and have fun in Miami's Carnival, hit some casinos and clubs.
They return on Monday send in a sick leave , go back out to work on Tuesday.

Lol,
I also know some people that leave the USA,sometimes they take two connecting flights, come down here to *party,* take part in our Carnival , hit the beaches , get a tan ,and head back up to work on Monday.
And their spouses are clueless.

Lol,
Nice try Vega,
Gulf Breeze or Tropical breeze.
CM ain't buying it.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Vega.
> 
> And only a certain type of man would accept _that_ from his wife.


Yes. A certain type of man who is _secure_ with himself, his wife, and his marriage. One who is not 'suspicious' or who readily jumps to conclusions about her "ulterior motives". One who TRUSTS his wife and who understands that his wife has DIFFERENT NEEDS than his own. 

Know anyone like that, CM?

Vega


----------



## treyvion

chillymorn said:


> yea but no Obama care!!!!!


Obama care is a reality now?


----------



## SolidSnake

Caribbean Man said:


> Vega.
> 
> From where I live it only costs about US $300.00 to fly to Florida.
> 
> Gulf breeze or not, I am absolutely not taking FIVE DAYS OFF from work, especially if I'm only entitled to one or two weeks , spending $300.00 to come to Florida to lie on the beach for the entire FIVE DAYS.
> 
> And only a certain type of man would accept _that_ from his wife.
> 
> PS: I have friends and family who live down here, and they usually visit Miami over the weekends ,just to party and have fun in Miami's Carnival, hit some casinos and clubs.
> They return on Monday send in a sick leave , go back out to work on Tuesday.
> 
> Lol,
> I also know some people that leave the USA,sometimes they take two connecting flights, come down here to *party,* take part in our Carnival , hit the beaches , get a tan ,and head back up to work on Monday.
> And their spouses are clueless.
> 
> Lol,
> Nice try Vega,
> Gulf Breeze or Tropical breeze.
> CM ain't buying it.


I think you guys are probably wrong about this, but I'm not completely discounting it either. 

Case in point, my parents are in Venice Beach right now as we speak. They go there for 2 weeks and all they do is sit on the beach and read, then go eat seafood at night. Some people just like that type of vacation. It doesn't seem all that extraordinary to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> Lastly, there isn't even a HINT of "no negotiation". The OP has not told us what his response was. Like I said earlier, I'm certain that he didn't just stand there like a deer-caught-in-the-headlights. He had EVERY CHANCE to SPEAK UP.
> 
> Did he?


In addition, like in the rest of your posts you contradict yourself here.

First you said that the OP hasn't told us what his response was. 
Fact is , he did in his second post.
Secondly, even if we use your position that we don't know what his response, then how come you're so sure that he didn't just stand there and that he had every chance to speak up?

From what I read, the conversation took place over the phone, he tried to reason and compromise with her, he even said that he was willing to sacrifice the money _if_ they could both go together.

Looks like he spoke up to me, but _she_ wasn't interested in listening...

Go back to page #2 and read his posts.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SolidSnake said:


> I think you guys are probably wrong about this, but I'm not completely discounting it either.
> 
> Case in point, my parents are in Venice Beach right now as we speak. They go there for 2 weeks and all they do is sit on the beach and read, then go eat seafood at night. Some people just like that type of vacation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well in that case , why doesn't she want him to come?
She could probably sit on the beach, drink iced tea and listen to music or read, whilst he occupied himself otherwise.

That way she still gets to " decompress."
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Unless of course she see's his presence as a hindrance...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

My Mother recently went on a tropical vacation alone for the first time ever. I was very happy for her, it was long overdue. She sat on the beach, sat in her hotel, she ate, she shopped a bit for trinkets to bring home but she's an introvert like me so meeting new people wasn't on her agenda, it actually makes her uncomfortable. She, like me, would prefer to just not talk to anyone to unwind. 

It's ridiculous to assume that NO ONE would want to sit on a beach for 5 days. Not everyone needs people around them to make them happy. Not everyone needs excitement around them to make them happy. Sometimes all people need is peace and quiet. If I ever get to go, I would sit in the quiet, eat, and maybe shop a bit. That's about it. As low stress, low energy as possible.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> In addition, like in the rest of your posts you contradict yourself here.
> 
> First you said that the OP hasn't told us what his response was.
> Fact is , he did in his second post.
> Secondly, even if we use your position that we don't know what his response, then how come you're so sure that he didn't just stand there and that he had every chance to speak up?
> 
> From what I read, the conversation took place over the phone, he tried to reason and compromise with her, he even said that he was willing to sacrifice the money _if_ they could both go together.
> 
> Looks like he spoke up to me, but _she_ wasn't interested in listening...
> 
> Go back to page #2 and read his posts.


O.k. I looked through ALL of his posts on this thread. I'm not seeing where he responded to her. I'm not seeing where he tried to compromise with her.


----------



## treyvion

Caribbean Man said:


> Well in that case , why doesn't she want him to come?
> She could probably sit on the beach, drink iced tea and listen to music or read, whilst he occupied himself otherwise.
> 
> That way she still gets to " decompress."
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Unless of course she see's his presence as a hindrance...


In a committed maritial union, this is kinda bad. I'm not saying that they should NEVER take vacations apart. Some people do that, remote hunting trips with the other males, etc. But I don't think the excitement should be that the spouse just CANNOT be there.

It's kinda like the pickup bar excitement on a GNO or BNO. The spouse can't be there cause she will mess up you all's "fun", when the "fun" was you are pushing your boundaries into area's which will be a problem for a relationship.


----------



## SolidSnake

Caribbean Man said:


> Well in that case , why doesn't she want him to come?
> She could probably sit on the beach, drink iced tea and listen to music or read, whilst he occupied himself otherwise.
> 
> That way she still gets to " decompress."
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Unless of course she see's his presence as a hindrance...



I agree that her not wanting the husband there is indicative if a lack of intimacy in the relationship, but I think there is a big causal leap between that and intending to cheat. 

I agree that it is odd that she doesn't want to bring just him, leaving the kids at home, assuming that's even possible for them.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> My Mother recently went on a tropical vacation alone for the first time ever. I was very happy for her, it was long overdue. She sat on the beach, sat in her hotel, she ate, she shopped a bit for trinkets to bring home but she's an introvert like me so meeting new people wasn't on her agenda, it actually makes her uncomfortable. She, like me, would prefer to just not talk to anyone to unwind.
> 
> It's ridiculous to assume that NO ONE would want to sit on a beach for 5 days. Not everyone needs people around them to make them happy. Not everyone needs excitement around them to make them happy. Sometimes all people need is peace and quiet. If I ever get to go, I would sit in the quiet, eat, and maybe shop a bit. That's about it. As low stress, low energy as possible.


Lol,
Well you're saying the same thing I'm saying.
My mother's in retirement just got remarried about 5 years ago.

She literally travels the globe SOLO.
Her husband is more of an introvert and couldn't be bothered with the hassle, he's old and traveled a lot anyway.
She's heading to my uncle in Miami June this year , and she's going to shop, sample some fancy restaurants and do some sightseeing.

Definitely not going to the beach to sit all of the time.
Her husband's the _introvert_, he's staying home.
Not a problem with him.


And how do we know the OP's wife is an introvert anyway?
She's accustomed going to family vacations with them, HE said that he is the one that took on the hassle of planning and organizing all the past vacations...

he does lots of works at home too.
So why again is he not invited?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Unless he's not the type of guy who would get it and actually leave her alone. I have one of those. He likes talking. When I ask him to just give me some time in quiet, he doesn't understand it as much as I'd like him to (that alone means DON'T TALK TO ME for any reason unless the house is on fire) but I sound like a b*tch when I keep saying it.... sigh... there's no way he's coming on my fantasy beach vacation. 

There's no way to know why she doesn't want him to go. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt since the OP didn't mention any cheating/bad boundaries with men.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Unless he's not the type of guy who would get it and actually leave her alone. I have one of those. He likes talking. When I ask him to just give me some time in quiet, he doesn't understand it as much as I'd like him to (that alone means DON'T TALK TO ME for any reason unless the house is on fire) but I sound like a b*tch when I keep saying it.... sigh... there's no way he's coming on my fantasy beach vacation.
> 
> There's no way to know why she doesn't want him to go. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt since the OP didn't mention any cheating/bad boundaries with men.


And I would also like to give HIM the benefit of the doubt that his spider senses are going crazy , he's giving her the benefit of the doubt, but at least he would like to be included and can't see why she doesn't want him around.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> Lol,
> Well you're saying the same thing I'm saying.
> My mother's in retirement just got remarried about 5 years ago.
> 
> She literally travels the globe SOLO.
> Her husband is more of an introvert and couldn't be bothered with the hassle, he's old and traveled a lot anyway.
> She's heading to my uncle in Miami June this year , and she's going to shop, sample some fancy restaurants and do some sightseeing.
> 
> Definitely not going to the beach to sit all of the time.
> Her husband's the _introvert_, he's staying home.
> Not a problem with him.


So why can't the introvert go on the vacation solo then? Just because your step-dad is old, already traveled a lot and wants to stay home doesn't mean it's the same for all introverts. I don't get it. Unless you're confusing it with agoraphobic. I do like being home alone, I would also like the beach alone. At least it's not -30 there. 



Caribbean Man said:


> And I would also like to give HIM the benefit of the doubt that his spider senses are going crazy , he's giving her the benefit of the doubt, but at least he would like to be included and can't see why she doesn't want him around.


Maybe he just has a personality type, like many in this thread, who just don't get a person who needs alone time. Clearly it would set off alarms for you because you don't get it. It sounds normal for me and I wouldn't go crazy at all. Same situation, different people. Sometimes it's not the situation that is causing the problem but how the people are responding to it. 

It could be nothing bad at all, she could have a secret life as a serial killer. We really don't know.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> There is a difference between going somewhere with someone and going alone, yes. You are generally expected to interact with the person you go with.
> 
> Some people dream of having some time without that pressure. I personally crave it and go crazy without it.
> 
> It's not nefarious, I love my husband but I love the sensation of missing him too.
> 
> Since OP dipped himself, all we can do is go round and round as to why certain people would want to dip out of life for awhile, I guess.


FrenchFry,
I would absolutely love to believe otherwise in this man's case.
But the reason he's here is because he thinks something is wrong, and the more I look at it, he seems to be a man in shock.
His denial is what's making him hurt and confused.

I am both introverted and extroverted.
My wife is extroverted and loves social interactions.
Like i said, she loves travel, I have traveled the region, so she now explores it with her girlfriends.

But my wife would NEVER call me on the phone like the OP's wife did and tell me that she's flying out for five days, and she doesn't want me around her under any condition on that particular trip.
I am always invited.

I know lots of women who take solo vacations , but they are usually planned long before.
Including my globe trotting recently married mother.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So why can't the introvert go on the vacation solo then? Just because your step-dad is old, already traveled a lot and wants to stay home doesn't mean it's the same for all introverts. I don't get it. Unless you're confusing it with agoraphobic. I do like being home alone, I would also like the beach alone. At least it's not -30 there.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe he just has a personality type, like many in this thread, who just don't get a person who needs alone time. Clearly it would set off alarms for you because you don't get it. It sounds normal for me and I wouldn't go crazy at all. Same situation, different people. Sometimes it's not the situation that is causing the problem but how the people are responding to it.
> 
> It could be nothing bad at all, she could have a secret life as a serial killer. We really don't know.



Well that's the point ,
We don't know that's why were trying to work on the details given and get a picture.

Just like you said maybe she's an introvert and just wants to be alone.
But how come after more than 17 years of a " normal " marriage she's unable to effectively communicate that to her husband?
Can you explain that?

Why after all these years of him planning the vacation she suddenly decides she wants her own vacation and she also doesn't want him involved even in the planning aspect of it?

What would you think if your husband did that to you?


----------



## Caribbean Man

I'm home alone tonight because my wife is up by her mom spending the night.

So here's basically what you guys are saying;
You guys are telling me that it's ok if I go online right now, purchase a ticket for Miami , call my wife in the morning and tell her that I'm going by my uncle in Dade county Miami on Thursday to decompress a bit , for the next five days ,because I'm really stressed out.

If she says she wants to come I can simply tell her no way, I need to be 
" alone ", and she isn't supposed to question it ,or think anything odd about it.

If she asks my itinerary during the time I'll be spending there, I could simply tell her that I'm going to the beach all day to read a book, every , single day.

The reality is ,when I return from Miami, I would probably meet an empty house and I'll not only have to explain to her, but her mother and my mother exactly what went on.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> Well that's the point ,
> We don't know that's why were trying to work on the details given and get a picture.
> 
> Just like you said maybe she's an introvert and just wants to be alone.
> But how come after more than 17 years of a " normal " marriage she's unable to effectively communicate that to her husband?
> Can you explain that?
> 
> Why after all these years of him planning the vacation she suddenly decides she wants her own vacation and she also doesn't want him involved even in the planning aspect of it?
> 
> What would you think if your husband did that to you?


Apparently she communicates enough that he already knows the answer to why she wants to go and why it would be easier for her to go alone.
"
She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go. I get that."

Where does it say she doesn't want him to be any part of planning it? Can you quote that?

and yes, if he had the opportunity to go visit relatives and relax after a hard time at work and I couldn't go because of money/kids, I would be fine with it. We actually discussed this because of this thread, we would both be fine with it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm home alone tonight because my wife is up by her mom spending the night.
> 
> So here's basically what you guys are saying;
> You guys are telling me that it's ok if I go online right now, purchase a ticket for Miami , call my wife in the morning and tell her that I'm going by my uncle in Dade county Miami on Thursday to decompress a bit , for the next five days ,because I'm really stressed out.
> 
> If she says she wants to come I can simply tell her no way, I need to be
> " alone ", and she isn't supposed to question it ,or think anything odd about it.
> 
> If she asks my itinerary during the time I'll be spending there, I could simply tell her that I'm going to the beach all day to read a book, every , single day.
> 
> The reality is ,when I return from Miami, I would probably meet an empty house and I'll not only have to explain to her, but her mother and my mother exactly what went on.


Has the OP updated somewhere that I missed? Where does it say it has gone any further than "I think..." When did she buy tickets? 

If you called your wife and said "I think I'm going to ask so and so if I could go visit them for a while. I need time to relax" she would leave you?


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm home alone tonight because my wife is up by her mom spending the night.
> 
> So here's basically what you guys are saying;
> You guys are telling me that it's ok if I go online right now, purchase a ticket for Miami , call my wife in the morning and tell her that I'm going by my uncle in Dade county Miami on Thursday to decompress a bit , for the next five days ,because I'm really stressed out.
> 
> If she says she wants to come I can simply tell her no way, I need to be
> " alone ", and she isn't supposed to question it ,or think anything odd about it.
> 
> If she asks my itinerary during the time I'll be spending there, I could simply tell her that I'm going to the beach all day to read a book, every , single day.
> 
> The reality is ,when I return from Miami, I would probably meet an empty house and I'll not only have to explain to her, but her mother and my mother exactly what went on.


Once again, at no time did the OP tell us that she already purchased a ticket or actually made arrangements to go. In fact, the context appears to be that she spoke matter-of-factly...kind of like saying, "I think I may to go the library for a few hours"... It doesn't mean she already put gas in the car, found her library card and called the library to see if a certain book is available.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Apparently she communicates enough that he already knows the answer to why she wants to go and why it would be easier for her to go alone.
> "
> She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go. I get that."
> 
> *Where does it say she doesn't want him to be any part of planning it? Can you quote that?*


SURE!
The paragraph after the one you just misinterpreted.

" This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, *OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go*, *if she would have considered me.* *She didn't, she only said herself*..."

So now that we've established that it's not that he doesn't want her to go, but SHE doesn't want him to come with her,
Are you willing to accept that something isn't right?

Or would you , in spite of the evidence hold on to your assumption?


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> and yes, if he had the opportunity to go visit relatives and relax after a hard time at work *and I couldn't go because of money/kids,* I would be fine with it. *We actually discussed this because of this thread, we would both be fine with it.*



RIGHT! Therein lies the difference between yours and the OP's situation. The bold part.

1]He *IS willing to go.*[ his wife doesn't want him.]
2]Both you and your husband* DISCUSSED and AGREED* on it. [ his wife is not in agreement and insists on her having her own way.]

That's how NORMAL marriages function.That's not what's happening in the OP's case.

So the question to you is , if you could have gone with your husband, and you wanted to go but your husband didn't want you to go.

How would you feel?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

He already said that 1. they can't afford a vacation and 2. "this would be cheap and the *only* way she would get to go"

She didn't say he CAN'T come, she just didn't mention it in that sentence. He said that going alone to her family's house would be the only way she would get to go away. For all you know his wife would love to have him there but it's not possible this year so she is doing the only thing that is available to her. Just because she didn't express her desire for him to be there in the 1 phone call they had doesn't mean that she has banned him. Perhaps after they spoke more and he realized that's how she feels and his problems were fixed, hence not coming back. 

and our conversation was not "can I go on a solo vacation" It was how would you feel if I called and told you that I was thinking about going. If your wife would leave you for thinking about going on a solo vacation, I suggest you not do it.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> No, that is your interpretation of what his wife has done.
> 
> We don't know if she has bought any kind of ticket. If she had, that would be a red flag. So far all his wife has done is float the idea or given the impression that she is floating the idea. That's what I got from the OP
> 
> The reason behind floating ideas is to get a gauge on how a spouse would react to said idea.
> 
> So his wife's idea is she would like to go on vacation by herself.
> 
> OP is saying: Why would she want to do this?


I disagree.

This paragraph here is the crux of what's bothering the OP.

"._*This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.*_.."

That doesn't constitute " floating an idea " to me.
You said the main purpose of floating an idea is to entertain dialogue and get a response.

Based on what the OP said , she has already made up her mind.
The timeframe is therefore inconsequential, because her mind is already made up.

that's not how ideas are floated.

I run a business, right now Im thinking of expanding into another area I'm not familar with.
So I floated the idea around to a couple people who I thought would be interested ,to get feedback.
Some feedback was positive and some negative.
My mind isn't made up as yet, and i'm still considering strategic partnerships. I am still open to alternative ideas.

That's how ideas are floated.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He already said that 1. they can't afford a vacation and 2. "this would be cheap and the *only* way she would get to go"
> 
> She didn't say he CAN'T come, she just didn't mention it in that sentence. He said that going alone to her family's house would be the only way she would get to go away. For all you know his wife would love to have him there but it's not possible this year so she is doing the only thing that is available to her. Just because she didn't express her desire for him to be there in the 1 phone call they had doesn't mean that she has banned him. Perhaps after they spoke more and he realized that's how she feels and his problems were fixed, hence not coming back.
> 
> and our conversation was not "can I go on a solo vacation" It was how would you feel if I called and told you that I was thinking about going. If your wife would leave you for thinking about going on a solo vacation, I suggest you not do it.


Well you've asked me for the evidence, I've posted it and you are still denying in spite of the fact that I posted the exact quoted text you requested.

I don't think it makes any sense going any further.


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> Absolutely NOBODY takes time off from work , flies to a tropical location just to sit on a beach for five days to " decompress."
> Added to that, she specifically told him that he was not invited, no negotiation...
> It's beginning to look fishy.
> I'm not buying it, but we can only go with what the OP says.


Sure they do. I did it several times with my ex wife. Literally just sit on a beach.

But I was invited... :smthumbup:


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> .
> .
> Unless of course she see's his presence as a hindrance...


Aw, CM, you had me a few pages ago - I was seeing your side of things, especially when you mentioned you did not assume there could be anything shady going on.

The last few pages of your replies are strongly hinting at this now.

What changed? The OP hasn't come back and added new information.

I'm starting to think you just like to argue and be the BMOC


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> Sure they do. I did it several times with my ex wife. Literally just sit on a beach.
> 
> But I was invited... :smthumbup:


And I've done it with my wife too.

But leave my loving wife and family home , tell her that she isn't invited jump into a flight across the country to a beach...

Because I'm stressed at work?

If she's too stressed at work, why doesn't she want her husband with her?:scratchhead:
If she's stressed at home, I can give way to that.
But she's stressed AT WORK!
Her loving husband is offering her support and she doesn't want it.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Why?:scratchhead:


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> Aw, CM, you had me a few pages ago - I was seeing your side of things, especially when you mentioned you did not assume there could be anything shady going on.
> 
> The last few pages of your replies are strongly hinting at this now.
> 
> What changed? The OP hasn't come back and added new information.
> 
> I'm starting to think you just like to argue and be the BMOC



Well Alex,

I'm not trying to be difficult.

I've reached where i am today not because I simply accepted things, but because I've constantly challenged them and challenged myself.

I think only foolish people make excuses, smart people try to figure things out.


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> I'm home alone tonight because my wife is up by her mom spending the night.
> 
> So here's basically what you guys are saying;
> You guys are telling me that it's ok if I go online right now, purchase a ticket for Miami , call my wife in the morning and tell her that I'm going by my uncle in Dade county Miami on Thursday to decompress a bit , for the next five days ,because I'm really stressed out.
> 
> *Sure, if you know your wife would be cool with it. Mine would. And vice versa.*
> 
> If she says she wants to come I can simply tell her no way, I need to be
> " alone ", and she isn't supposed to question it ,or think anything odd about it.
> 
> *Unless she has reason to not trust you, then yes.*
> 
> If she asks my itinerary during the time I'll be spending there, I could simply tell her that I'm going to the beach all day to read a book, every , single day.
> 
> *If it's true, then what else are you supposed to say?*
> 
> The reality is ,when I return from Miami, I would probably meet an empty house and I'll not only have to explain to her, but her mother and my mother exactly what went on.
> 
> *That's the thing, CM - that is what would happen in YOUR marriage. What you and your wife deem unacceptable between the two of you is not necessarily how other marriages operate.
> 
> You really shouldn't be shocked that people do things differently than you do!*


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> jump into a *flight across the country *to a beach...


At what point did the OP tells us that she was going to take a flight across the country to get to Florida? 

Me thinks you're confabulating waaaaay too much, CM...


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> At what point did the OP tells us that she was going to take a flight across the country to get to Florida?
> 
> Me thinks you're confabulating waaaaay too much, CM...


Me also thinks that you're confabulating waaaaay too much, Vega.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> Oh, and to the post above mine:
> 
> So many reasons.
> 
> Another one: maybe the husband is the cause of the stress and she doesn't want to hurt his feelings so she said "work."
> 
> It's not a good one, it would be better for everyone if everyone could be honest but maybe she has a little experience in what would work to get her out and what doesn't.



So how many more excuses are we really prepared to give his wife?
How much further are we be prepared to go in giving her the benefit of the doubt?

Because to me it seems that you guys giving her the benefit of doubt but he gets none.
You're not accepting or prepared to accept his version.

The question is why?

Why must he accept responsibility for her choices and horrible communication?


----------



## norajane

All the OP said was his wife told him she was thinking about finding out if she could stay with her aunt and uncle in Florida. 

She doesn't have tickets or made any actual plans to do anything. She doesn't even know IF or WHEN that might be possible, based on what her aunt and uncle have to say. She hasn't even talked with them yet. She brought it up to her husband and told him this is what she was thinking about. That's his cue to tell her what he thinks about it. That's how discussions start.


----------



## alexm

Caribbean Man said:


> And I've done it with my wife too.
> 
> But leave my loving wife and family home , tell her that she isn't invited jump into a flight across the country to a beach...
> 
> Because I'm stressed at work?
> 
> *Yeah. I really don't see why this wouldn't be okay for SOME people. You are not the type of personality who would do this, and that's okay. I am. My wife is (well, I'm PRETTY sure, I shouldn't put words in her mouth!). Some other people here are, too.*
> 
> If she's too stressed at work, why doesn't she want her husband with her?:scratchhead:
> If she's stressed at home, I can give way to that.
> But she's stressed AT WORK!
> 
> *Yeah, and? I'm not really sure why the source of the stress matters whether she travels alone or with somebody. Stress is stress. Some people recharge better on their own.
> 
> When my wife is sick, she prefers to just be left alone. She's told us this. She appreciates our concern and us checking on her, but she doesn't want, or need, somebody catering to her constantly. She'll take a hot bath, read a book in bed, sleep a lot, and periodically come downstairs for food or something. Then back upstairs.
> 
> My ex was a BABY when she was sick. I had to be her butler, and she complained and whined and was generally annoying. I couldn't leave her side, because she needed SOMETHING at all times... including if she woke up at 3am on a work night, and wanted a glass of water or something. It was, I imagine, like having a 2 month old around...
> 
> Some people just LIKE being alone. If OP's wife is that personality, and, up til this point (17 years of marriage, working, child-raising) has never acted upon her desire to just be ALONE, then give her some credit for taking this long to be comfortable to do it.*
> 
> 
> 
> Her loving husband is offering her support and she doesn't want it.
> 
> *Support by what? Wanting to be by her side when she wants NOBODY around? Support is allowing her to be alone, once.
> 
> It's a given that he should be asking questions, and not just saying "sure honey, do whatever you want", but at the same time, being leery of the situation is hardly being supportive. Find out why she doesn't want anybody around, and if the answer is legit, then tell her to have fun and come back happy.*
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> Why?:scratchhead:


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> So how many more excuses are we really prepared to give his wife?


"Excuses?"

The point is, that without more information, we really don't know WHAT to say to the OP. For all we know, the OP is only giving us HALF of the story. HIS half. 

Maybe he's controlling...and she's sick of it. 
Maybe he constantly nags her...and she's sick of it.
Maybe she's leaving in order to re-think the marriage...and he's he poses the question on TAM because he's in DENIAL. 

Instead of judging her actions as being "awful" or "sinister" or "selfish" or "inconsiderate" with what LITTLE INFORMATION THE OP HAS GIVEN US, why not simply wait for him to respond? 

IF he ever DOES come back...

Vega


----------



## Caribbean Man

norajane said:


> All the OP said was his wife told him she was thinking about finding out if she could stay with her aunt and uncle in Florida.
> 
> She doesn't have tickets or made any actual plans to do anything. She doesn't even know IF or WHEN that might be possible, based on what her aunt and uncle have to say. She hasn't even talked with them yet. She brought it up to her husband and told him this is what she was thinking about. That's his cue to tell her what he thinks about it. That's how discussions start.


And this is how that discussion ended;

" _This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me._* She didn't, she only said herself.*.."


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> *Maybe he's controlling...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe he constantly nags her...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe she's leaving in order to re-think the marriage...and he's he poses the question on TAM because he's in DENIAL.
> *
> .
> 
> Vega


See?

You just prove my point Vega.
Exactly where did you get that information?
Now who's confabulating?

Bye bye!


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> You're not accepting or prepared to accept his version.
> 
> The question is why?


Because he hasn't given us enough information. I would rather give someone the benefit of the doubt UNTIL I have concrete evidence to the contrary. 

In fact, our entire JUDICIAL SYSTEM is based on "innocent before PROVEN guilty" and not GUILTY until proven innocent.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> See?
> 
> You just prove my point Vega.
> Exactly where did you get that information?
> Now who's conflabulating?
> 
> Bye bye!


Did you not see where I wrote MAYBE??????


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> Because he hasn't given us enough information. I would rather give someone the benefit of the doubt UNTIL I have concrete evidence to the contrary.
> 
> In fact, our entire JUDICIAL SYSTEM is based on "innocent before PROVEN guilty" and not GUILTY until proven innocent.


Yes.

But you just said this about him:

" *Maybe he's controlling...and she's sick of it. 
Maybe he constantly nags her...and she's sick of it.
Maybe she's leaving in order to re-think the marriage...and he's he poses the question on TAM because he's in DENIAL...*" 

So how come the innocent until proven guilty rule doesn't apply to him?
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Yes.
> 
> But you just said this about him:
> 
> " *Maybe he's controlling...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe he constantly nags her...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe she's leaving in order to re-think the marriage...and he's he poses the question on TAM because he's in DENIAL...*"
> 
> So how come the innocent until proven guilty rule doesn't apply to him?
> :rofl::rofl::rofl:


I'm sorry CM, but what part of "maybe" are you questioning?


----------



## Caribbean Man

Vega said:


> Did you not see where I wrote MAYBE??????


Doesn't make a difference .
Still very biased against him.
All you are saying is MAYBE he's a monster and she's Snow White.
Maybe he's wrong and she's right.



I'm sayin maybe you should just deal with facts and ONLY quote what the OP actually said.


----------



## alexm

Vega said:


> For all we know, the OP is only giving us HALF of the story. HIS half.
> 
> Maybe he's controlling...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe he constantly nags her...and she's sick of it.
> Maybe she's leaving in order to re-think the marriage...and he's he poses the question on TAM because he's in DENIAL.


I'm going to be honest - the words above are often among the first things I think of before I respond to anything. Doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman who made the post.

The sad thing is, I'm sure more posts than we'd like are from people exactly like that, and they're looking for reassurance from others.

We have NO idea what kind of a husband OP is, just as we don't know what kind of a wife she is.

If she's been under his thumb for 17 years, then that would really change a lot of the answers here. If she's been the one in charge, then it could be a good opportunity to finally put his foot down. But we don't know.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Doesn't make a difference .
> Still very biased against him.
> All you are saying is MAYBE he's a monster and she's Snow White.
> Maybe he's wrong and she's right.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sayin maybe you should just deal with facts and ONLY quote what the OP actually said.


And, I'm still waiting for YOU to show me exactly WHERE the OP stated that his wife was "flying across the country" to go to Florida...

The FACT is, that HE NEVER SAID THAT. 

Please, take your own advice when dealing with FACTS, CM.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> OP hasn't given any indication that he is controlling, needy or naggy
> 
> But if his wife thinks that she is, she definitely isn't going to say "Honey, I think you are controlling needy and naggy so I'm going on a vacation."
> 
> OP doesn't seem to think that's the reason, but we still have nothing to go on. It's just another reason to add onto the "maybes"


This is what the OP said.

1]He has planned most or all of their vacations
2]He does more than his share of work at home.
3]He understands and accepts that his wife is very stressed at work
4]He understands and accepts that she wants a vacation NOW.
5]They can't afford a family vacation now, but he's willing to go with his wife.

Those are the FACTS as posted by the OP.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Bye bye Vega!


----------



## Vega

FrenchFry said:


> OP doesn't seem to think that's the reason, but we still have nothing to go on. *It's just another reason to add onto the "maybes*"


Yes, which was my point (using the 'tongue and cheek' method). There are too many "maybes" for anyone to draw a conclusion. Too many people are drawing conclusions WITHOUT the facts. It doesn't make any sense to deem what she said as being "sinister". She might have a perfectly _legitimate_ reason for saying what she said. 

And, if the OP every comes back, *MAYBE* he'll tell us...


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> All you are saying is MAYBE he's a monster and she's Snow White.
> Maybe he's wrong and she's right.
> I'm sayin maybe you should just deal with facts and ONLY quote what the OP actually said.


Please show me where I EVER wrote that "MAYBE he's a monster and she's Snow White". 

Once again CM, you're confabulating. The FACT is, that I never wrote anything even CLOSE to that.


----------



## Caribbean Man

If I was in the OP's wife situation,and my wife did all of the things below:

1]Planned most or all of our vacations and outings
2]Does more than her share of work at home, took care of the kids.
3]Understood and accepted that I was very stressed at work.
4]Understood and accepted that I wanted a vacation NOW.
5]Was willing to sacrifice and go with me on that vacation.

Then there was no way under heavens that I would _ever_ tell her that she's not allowed to come.
Doesn't matter if she's a chatter box and I wanted t be alone, she would be more than welcome to come because of those 1-5 things listed above.

And I dare ANYBODY on this thread tonight to say categorically that given the exact scenario I just painted,# 1- 5 , no ifs , but , or maybes , that they would deny their spouse the opportunity to come on that vacation with them.

Lets see who would be first.


----------



## Vega

FrenchFry said:


> Okay.
> 
> Also, people communicate differently so what seems like a bomb dropped to some seems like a probe to others. Until OP posts with some clarification, while it seems like a bomb to him it could be a probe. Let's give him some probes of his own.


Yes, but UNTIL such time that the OP asks questions and clarifies, why WOULDN'T he give his wife the _benefit of the doubt_? 

Why WOULDN'T he understand that his wife is a different person than HE is, and that HER needs may be _legitimately_ different from his own? 

Seems to me that if I wasn't going to give my spouse the benefit of the doubt, I'd really question WHY I'm with him in the first place...


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> I'll go first, me.
> 
> If my husband wanted to go on a vacation by himself and he could swing it, my concern isn't how much housework I'm doing, how many vacations I've planned. If his stress level is high and me going wouldn't lend to some peace of mind and I got some good reactions from questions like "you don't hate me, right?" and "you aren't going to go hook-up with people, right?" and "I get the chance to do this too, right?" and "how are you going to budget for this?"
> 
> Done, he can go.


No.

You got it wrong.

What I'm asking is if *HE* did all of those things I mentioned , and was virtually begging you to ALLOW him to come along with you on your solo vacation.

Will you deny him that opportunity?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> If I was in the OP's wife situation,and my wife did all of the things below:
> 
> 1]Planned most or all of our vacations and outings
> 2]Does more than her share of work at home, took care of the kids.
> 3]Understood and accepted that I was very stressed at work.
> 4]Understood and accepted that I wanted a vacation NOW.
> 5]Was willing to sacrifice and go with me on that vacation.
> 
> Then there was no way under heavens that I would _ever_ tell her that she's not allowed to come.
> Doesn't matter if she's a chatter box and I wanted t be alone, she would be more than welcome to come because of those 1-5 things listed above.
> 
> And I dare ANYBODY on this thread tonight to say categorically that given the exact scenario I just painted,# 1- 5 , no ifs , but , or maybes , that they would deny their spouse the opportunity to come on that vacation with them.
> 
> Lets see who would be first.


Assuming he is telling the 100% truth about his side- If I had an opportunity like she does, knowing they can't afford a vacation but she has a cheap solution, I might think about it, like she did, and bring it up to him, like she did. What would happen after that conversation is that if he really felt so strongly about it I would re-think but I would want to know why I wasn't allowed to go by myself. If he didn't trust me or if it's just that he felt left out or if since he doesn't get to/can't afford to go no one gets to go. 
The fact is we just got the start of this conversation, just the first sentence. We don't know what he said, what she said back, etc. 

Did he even tell her he felt bad about not being invited? Will the Aunt and Uncle be Ok with them both staying there? Does the wife want the kids at home with Dad since they have school and their own schedules? 

Too many questions to put myself in their situation but in mine, yes. I would speak my mind and tell him what I was thinking and yes, I would entertain the thought of going on a vacation alone - for many different reasons- some might be the same as hers, some might not be. IMO there ARE legitimate reasons to want to go alone, if she has some or not is a mystery.


----------



## Caribbean Man

There is NO IFS , BUTS or MAYBES.

A simple question , what will you do given XYZ and you guys afraid to answer?

Maybe I should ask the question a different way?

So ok here goes;

Given that your partner covers this scenario:

1]Planned most or all of our vacations and outings
2]Does more than her share of work at home, took care of the kids.
3]Understood and accepted that I was very stressed at work.
4]Understood and accepted that I wanted a vacation NOW.
5]Was willing to sacrifice and go with me on that vacation.

What else could he or she do to get you to reconsider not allowing them on a solo vacation with you?
Is there _anything_ that they could do, in addition to #1-5 to make you change your mind?

So there , I've actually widened the gambit.


----------



## Vega

Caribbean Man said:


> Is there anything that they could do, in addition to #1-5 to make you change your mind?


No. 

Doing #'s 1-5 should not OBLIGATE me to take him with me. 

And, if he DID believe that I was OBLIGATED to take him with me, I'd be using that time to seriously be planning for a divorce...

Being married does NOT mean that I am obligated to spend ALL of my free time with my spouse, nor does it mean that I'm obligated to spend my free time the way my spouse wants me to spend it. 

The time I give to him is just that; it's freely GIVEN. The moment it starts to become obligatory is that moment I say 'Adios'.

Vega


----------



## Caribbean Man

Well guys , in case you all haven't realized, your answers contradicts your earlier positions ie ; that the OP's wife was simply " floating and idea" when she told him her intentions.

Here's how.

*All of you said that if you were the OP's wife nothing he said would be able to convince you to allow him to tag along on your solo **vacation.*
Given that response , then realistically, non of you actually believe that she was just " floating the idea."
Clearyl in your minds, she made a definitive statement of her intent and wasn't willing to compromise.

So right there, I've eliminated one more unknown.

So here's what we know as posted by the OP.

1]He has planned most or all of their previous vacations.
2]He does more than his share of work at home.
3]He understands and accepts that his wife is very stressed at work
4]He understands and accepts that she wants a vacation NOW.
5]They can't afford a family vacation now, but he's willing to go with his wife.

Here's what we know , based on what he said about his wife.

1]She's very stressed at work
2]She wants a vacation.
3]She's already planned it without his prior knowledge.
4]Both she and her husband had plans to repair the house so the money to travel this year was already allocated to repairs.
5]Based on #4, her plans to vacation in Florida was never agreed upon.
6]She doesn't want to compromise or change her plans.
7]She doesn't want him on vacation with her.

These are the facts we know about the OP and his wife as told by the OP.

Here's what the OP NEVER said or even hinted.

1]That she is stressed out at home.
2]That their marriage is in a bad position with lots of conflict
3]That she is an introvert and he is an extrovert
4]That he doesn't want her to go on the vacation.
5]That he was aware of her plans
6]That he was uncomfortable with her communication style.
7]That he was accustomed and comfortable his wife taking this solo vacation.
8]That they had agreed implicitly or explicitly about solo vacations.

Those ^^^are the "maybes " on this thread.
Remove the " maybes" and we begin to get an unfiltered, clearer picture.
In basic algebra, that is called " elimination method " or removing the variables, working with know quantities to find out the unknown. <---[ couldn't help it,I love mathematics!]

But seriously ,absolutely nothing in this scenario looks above board to me.


----------



## Omego

Even if she agreed for him to come along, he could not because of the kids. So it's either she goes alone or she doesn't go.

If she just announced that she was going and didn't bother to ask, it sounds like she's a bit insensitive.

But that's all we can say. No more conclusions can be drawn. 

If the OP wants to change something, the vacation is irrelevant. It's the dynamic of their relationship which needs to change. Trying to guilt someone into not doing what they want is counter-productive.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Omego said:


> Even if she agreed for him to come along, he could not because of the kids. So it's either she goes alone or she doesn't go.
> 
> If she just announced that she was going and didn't bother to ask, it sounds like she's a bit insensitive.
> 
> But that's all we can say. No more conclusions can be drawn.
> 
> If the OP wants to change something, the vacation is irrelevant. It's the dynamic of their relationship which needs to change. Trying to guilt someone into not doing what they want is counter-productive.


The kids are old enough.

And he isn't trying to guilt her into not going, but he's trying to find out what's happening with her.

He wants to find out if he should hold her responsible for her actions and call her on it , but he's afraid and confused.
He's hurt and knows he's defeated.

That speaks volumes for the dynamic that exists in the relationship.

If the relationship was a balanced one , then she would have been willing to discuss and compromise.

If he held the balance of power in the relationship then she wouldn't have had an option and would have resorted to some form of protest.

Because she holds the balance of power in the relationship , she can do what she pleases in spite of what he thinks and that is what she's doing.

That's the problem.


----------



## MrK

Don't you guys have jobs?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

"3]She's already planned it without his prior knowledge."

She hasn't even asked her Aunt yet! Seriously, I don't know about you but nothing is planned before you even have permission. Stop being so dramatic about the whole thing. She had a thought.She told her husband of said thought. She thought she would ask if she could stay with them for a week. That's not "bought a ticket" that's not "planed the whole thing without telling him" Where she's at right now is the *first* step in planning and she told him about it. If she can't tell her husband what she's thinking there is a huge problem. 

Now it's up to HIM to communicate his needs back and then together work out a solution. Simple as that.


----------



## jld

Caribbean Man said:


> That speaks volumes for the dynamic that exists in the relationship.
> 
> If the relationship was a balanced one , then she would have been willing to discuss and compromise.
> 
> If he held the balance of power in the relationship then she wouldn't have had an option and would have resorted to some form of protest.
> 
> Because she holds the balance of power in the relationship , she can do what she pleases in spite of what he thinks and that is what she's doing.


Well, that's insightful. How do you know these things? Did you read this somewhere, or learn it from MC?

That power balance/imbalance thread you are planning is going to be a very enlightening discussion.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> "3]She's already planned it without his prior knowledge."
> 
> She hasn't even asked her Aunt yet! Seriously, I don't know about you but nothing is planned before you even have permission. Stop being so dramatic about the whole thing. She had a thought.She told her husband of said thought. She thought she would ask if she could stay with them for a week. That's not "bought a ticket" that's not "planed the whole thing without telling him" Where she's at right now is the *first* step in planning and she told him about it. If she can't tell her husband what she's thinking there is a huge problem.
> 
> *Now it's up to HIM to communicate his needs back and then together work out a solution. Simple as that.*


And you're saying that after more than 17 years of marriage he doesn't know how his wife communicates?

Why exactly do you think he's here on TAM?


----------



## Caribbean Man

jld said:


> Well, that's insightful. How do you know these things? Did you read this somewhere, or learn it from MC?
> 
> That power balance/imbalance thread you are planning is going to be a very enlightening discussion.


Marriage counselling and after years of marriage.


The power differential in a relationship is sometimes determined by who get's their way more often in a relationship whenever there's a disagreement.
The partner who refuses o compromise is the one who holds the power. 
Whether psychological or economical.

When both partners are willing to give way and compromise, the power balance is equal or 50/50.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> And you're saying that after more than 17 years of marriage he doesn't know how his wife communicates?
> 
> Why exactly do you think he's here on TAM?


Huh? You don't even know if he told her that he's upset. If he is then he needs to tell her so she can further the conversation with him. Like many have said, we got 1 sentence. Nothing about what he *said* back to her. 
She communicated enough to get the message out that she is thinking of asking her Aunt to stay there and 3 reasons why she would think this. 
Because of her communicating to him, he has a feeling about it which he now has to communicate to her. That's how it works. Someone brings something up, you respond. 

It's not like he can read her mind, she has to at some point tell him what she is thinking and feeling, which she has- very early on in the process. She can't read his mind either, she won't know how he feels about it until he says something. Ball's in his court now.


----------



## Cleigh

The suspension is killing me. What has come of the OP?


----------



## Caribbean Man

MrK said:


> Don't you guys have jobs?


lol,

Multitasking here man.

Running about five different tasks in the background.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Cleigh said:


> The suspension is killing me. What has come of the OP?


The OP already got his answer.
That's the nature of TAM.
People usually arrive here at their wits end , when they're out of answers, look around and then reality hits them wham! in the face.


I'm sure he would have either looked in the CWI section or went through the related posts at the bottom of the page.

But I get the feeling he'll be right back, they usually come back after a while.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Huh? You don't even know if he told her that he's upset. If he is then he needs to tell her so she can further the conversation with him. Like many have said, we got 1 sentence. Nothing about what he *said* back to her.
> She communicated enough to get the message out that she is thinking of asking her Aunt to stay there and 3 reasons why she would think this.
> Because of her communicating to him, he has a feeling about it which he now has to communicate to her. That's how it works. Someone brings something up, you respond.
> 
> It's not like he can read her mind, she has to at some point tell him what she is thinking and feeling, which she has- very early on in the process. She can't read his mind either, she won't know how he feels about it until he says something. Ball's in his court now.



And you're saying he would run to TAM, an anonymous self help forum, for a bunch of strangers to figure _that_ out for him?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> And you're saying he would run to TAM, an anonymous self help forum, for us . strangers to figure *that *out for him?


Why not? I have not been around as long as you but I have read many, many threads. Some with very simple- just tell her how you feel- answers. Sometimes people know the answer and still want opinions, or to be told they are right, or just help to work out their feelings first before they communicate back. 

The sense I got from the OP is that part of him is Ok with it and part of him isn't, that he wanted to get other opinions about it before speaking with her. That's fairly common around here.

So are communication issues even after 17+ years of marriage. Length of marriage doesn't ensure ability to communicate or the ability to process feelings enough to communicate directly. It's a skill to learn. Some faster than others.


----------



## Omego

MrK said:


> Don't you guys have jobs?


I was just thinking this and feeling guilty about procrastinating..... lol.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The sense I got from the OP is that part of him is Ok with it and part of him isn't, that he wanted to get other opinions about it before speaking with her. That's fairly common around here.


I would like to believe so too.
But the evidence says something else.

Here's some excerpts from his first post:

" *She will tell you that she has been extremely stressed at work, which is accurate, and that she didn't think there would be any way we can afford to take a vacation, which is also true, and that this would be cheap and the only way she would get to go.* *I get that.*

This may have been a little easier to take if she asked me if I thought we (the family) would be able to take a vacation this year, *OR if she asked if the 2 of us could go, if she would have considered me. She didn't, she only said herself.
*
I am having a hard time with this, I would never ever even think about taking a vacation without her. *I can't imagine anyone* *telling* (*not asking*) their spouse that they are going to go away for a week by themselves..."

End of quote




Based on what the OP says here,
She's already made up her mind and not interested in any further discussion.

So what he's really asking us is what should he do next.
It makes no sense telling him to go back an communicate with her on that subject because she's already made up her mind.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

"It makes no sense telling him to go back an communicate with her on that subject because she's already made up her mind. "

You are confusing how he feels with what was said. Feelings do not make a conversation, words do. He feels like her mind is made up. She did not say that. All she said is that she is thinking of asking her Aunt if she can go stay. Hell, we don't even know if the Aunt will say yes. 

We don't know if he said anything back to her about how he feels or what her response would be if she knew how he feels about it. Maybe he, like you, has confused her sentence with "bought a ticket and am going" and has completely blown this out of proportion. 

Yes, I would tell him to communicate his feelings to her. Compromise will never happen without communication. So far there is no communication. Just 1 sentence and some feelings about it. 

I could FEEL that being told "I think those pants look funny on you" means that I'm a fat cow but that doesn't mean that's what he said or felt.


----------



## Caribbean Man

That's why in my first post today I clearly laid out.

1] what we know about the OP.
2]what we know about his wife.
3] what we don't konw.

You're speculating whilst I'm posting his actual excerpts from his posts.


I said that in order to figure out what's happening we need to eliminate the variables.
Too many variables make it impossible to solve any problem, whether mathematical, statistical, management , business or anything.

What he feels is based on what she said , are you saying that his feelings are wrong ?
And what makes her form of communication _and feelings _more valid than his feelings in response to it?

Right thre^^^ is where the unhealthy power imbalance lies in the relationship


----------



## samyeagar

One thing I do wonder about this, and it hasn't come up as a possibility, but if his wife was just idily musing, floating an idea, could her choice of words simply not have been exact?

The reason I ask is that there is a mild trigger issue for me with my STBW that goes right along these lines. We sleep in the same bed she had with her ex husband, and boyfriend between her ex husband and myself. She is aware that I feel somewhat out of place in it, as if I am filling a spot held by someone else. She has done a very good job helping me with that issue, but occasionally someone will ask something like "Where do you want me to put this?" and she'll say "Go put it on my bed." To anyone else, herself included, there is absolutely nothing off, or anything else about what she said. Nobody would give it a second thought. Even though she said HER bed, not another person in the world besides me would take that to mean anything. To me, I picked up on the exact singular word. It wasn't "our" bed. It was her bed. But to anyone else, the "our" bed is implied if not explicity said.

Is it possible that she simply used the singular word with the assumed implication that she meant him as well? That she wasn't purposely and implicitly excluding him?


----------



## melw74

I have a job, but I can also multitask :smthumbup:

Housewife here, and i have done all my housework but somehow i am really not into repeats of spongebob squarepants which will be on for most of the day here in my household.

I would rather be on a beach in Florida.... with my husband and children of course tho


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> You're speculating whilst I'm posting his actual words.


Yes, and I was talking about that. You do you realize that his actual words were he FELT about her 1 sentence and not actual words that she said? I don't think you are actually reading my posts. 


I think assuming your spouse means one thing when they actually said/mean another is a problem in relationships that can be fixed with talking, not shutting down communication. You feel that communication is pointless after 1 sentence. I just can't agree with that so we'll just have to move on, agree to disagree and be happy we aren't married to each other. We'd fight too much


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes, and I was talking about that. You do you realize that his actual words were he FELT about her 1 sentence and not actual words that she said? I don't think you are actually reading my posts.
> 
> 
> I think assuming your spouse means one thing when they actually said/mean another is a problem in relationships that can be fixed with talking, not shutting down communication. You feel that communication is pointless after 1 sentence. I just can't agree with that so we'll just have to move on, agree to disagree and be happy we aren't married to each other. We'd fight too much


lol,

Where did I say that comunication after one sentence is pointless?

In fact what I'm saying all along the thread is exactly what you just said, but where we disagree is thatyou think he's responsible for shutting down the communication and I have posted excerpts from his original post where he quoted and indicated, that SHE shut down communication.

Anything else is purely speculative.

You have also said last evening that if you were in her position, you wouldn't be willing to entertain the idea of having your husband with you on your solo vacation, no matter what he did or was willing to do.

So then, why are you saying that he should go back to her and reopen the discourse when she is unwilling , and you also think she should be unwilling,to change her mind about it?

Without the prospect of compromise in this case , communication would always remain shut. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HE SAYS OR FEELS, HER MIND IS ALREADY MADE. If she's willing to compromise, just like he is , then communication would be useful.

So the only thing you and I differ on is the truth.
Who shut down the communication?

You have failed to show proof of your feeling.
I have shown irrefutable proof of my statement.

Your version of the facts are unsupported.
I have shown evidence to support mine.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

"but where we disagree is thatyou think he's responsible for shutting down the communication"

I'm sorry you misunderstood. I don't think any of them "shut down communication". I believe they need to BEGIN communication. She started with her feelings, now it's his turn. It goes from there.


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> "but where we disagree is thatyou think he's responsible for shutting down the communication"
> 
> I'm sorry you misunderstood. I don't think any of them "shut down communication". I believe they need to BEGIN communication. She started with her feelings, now it's his turn. It goes from there.


Ok then.
Here we go.

Do you think that she should revisit her earlier decision / intention about that solo vacation , and make a compromise with her husband that is acceptable to both of them?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok then.
> Here we go.
> 
> Do you think that she should revisit her earlier decision / intention about that solo vacation , and make a compromise with her husband that is acceptable to both of them?


I have said many times that once he discusses his feelings with her they can and should come up with a compromise. That doesn't mean she should just not get to go. Maybe she cuts her trip shorter or agrees to an open book policy, maybe he joins her after a couple days, maybe she goes on this one and he goes on the next alone. There are many possibilities but it starts with 
"I think I...."
"I feel ____ about that"


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I have said many times that once he discusses his feelings with her they can and should come up with a compromise. That doesn't mean she should just not get to go. Maybe she cuts her trip shorter or agrees to an open book policy, maybe he joins her after a couple days, maybe she goes on this one and he goes on the next alone. There are many possibilities but it starts with
> "I think I...."
> "I feel ____ about that"


Right.

And what does he do next if after he tells her he feels slighted and hurt about her trip[ for the second time] , she still refuses to even compromise?
Clearly he _has_ tried to compromise with her initially , and she didn't budge.
What happens if he tries again,
And fails?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Caribbean Man said:


> Right.
> 
> And what does he do next if after he tells her he feels slighted and hurt about her trip[ for the second time] , she still refuses to even compromise?
> Clearly he _has_ tried to compromise with her initially , and she didn't budge.
> What happens if he tries again,
> And fails?


Show me where he told her he feels slighted and that he has tried to compromise and failed. Don't keep quoting how he feels because that's not the same unless you believe she can read his mind. We know 1 thing that was actually said that that's "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress". 

He didn't say that he told her how he felt, he didn't say he tried to offer a compromise, he didn't say she was told he felt hurt and she refused to budge. No where does it say any of that. Why are you assuming that he just left all that out?


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Show me where he told her he feels slighted and that he has tried to compromise and failed. Don't keep quoting how he feels because that's not the same unless you believe she can read his mind. We know 1 thing that was actually said that that's "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress".
> 
> He didn't say that he told her how he felt, he didn't say he tried to offer a compromise, he didn't say she was told he felt hurt and she refused to budge. No where does it say any of that. Why are you assuming that he just left all that out?


Lol,

The OP is her HUSBAND dear, not her father or therapist.
And she's the mother of a 17 yr and a 10 yr old kid so she' well beyond adolescence in age.

What you're saying is that a middle aged wife of more than 17 yrs, just out of the blue decides to go on a vacation on her own without her husband's input or consent, cannot, or is unable to recognize on her own, that her husband would be concerned at minimum and upset at maximum?
Are you saying that her husband must _first tell her how he feels_ then she would " get it?"
sorry I can't accept that.
That's can only apply to , unintentional infractions in a relationship, and newly weds, not two grown a$$ mature people taking major decisions like this one.

You do realize that by saying she's unable to " _read his mind_ ",in this matter, she's coming across as extremely insensitive in her actions ?

Would you remain married to such an insensitive man ,who would do exactly as she did without a thought of how you would feel, and expect you to speak up or take responsibility for his actions?

I really don't think so.

EDIT:

My wife's birthday is the 6th Oct.
Let's say I forgot her birthday, 
On the 7th she upset.
On the 8th she's mad.
On the 9th I try try to make a move on her in bed, she pushes me away angrily.
On the 10th she explodes, and I ask why she's mad.
She bursts out in tears and shouts " You forgot my birthday!"
And I respond ,
"_How do you expect me to know how you felt about that, I can't read your mind! Why didn't you say something?_ "

Epic Fail.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

_My wife's birthday is the 6th Oct.
Let's say I forgot her birthday,
On the 7th she upset.
On the 8th she's mad.
On the 9th I try try to make a move on her in bed, she pushes me away angrily.
On the 10th she explodes, and I ask why she's mad.
She bursts out in tears and shouts " You forgot my birthday!"
And I respond ,
"How do you expect me to know how you felt about that, I can't read your mind! Why didn't you say something? "_


So.... your response is that her husband should just act passive aggressive and not tell her how he feels until he eventually explodes? I see. Very adult way of handling it. See, if that wife had told her husband how she felt on the *6th*, it could had all been solved that day. But no, she's going to play the "you should know why I'm mad so I'm not telling you" game. That's not healthy IMO and I wouldn't be OK with it in my home. 

Clearly from this thread you can understand that many wives would NOT think their husbands would throw a hissy fit over the mention of a solo vacation so 'she should know already he would be mad' is ridiculous. Many husbands would not be- middle aged or not.

If I said the same thing as she did, mine would be fine with it. It is certainly not universal (like forgetting a birthday, even that isn't 100%) that thinking about a vacation and talking about it will upset your partner. If he wasn't fine with it then it's his responsibility to say so.


In short 
_"Are you saying that her husband must first tell her how he feels then she would " get it?"" _

Yes- if he expects her to understand how he feels, he has to tell her how he feels.


What do you have against communicating? What good reason could there be for him NOT talking about his feelings with her?

ETA- Ah, nevermind. I'm out. I've spent too much time on this already. I don't like being called "dear" and there's just no conversation to be had here.


----------



## KimDavis92

Men don't own us.


----------



## samyeagar

KimDavis92 said:


> Men don't own us.


Of course they don't. Who said anything about a man owning a woman?


----------



## Holland

SlowlyGoingCrazy being called dear is condescending. There is no point talking to people like that. Have only skimmed the last 5 pages but yeah I wouldn't bother replying to someone that was such a tool.


----------



## Holland

samyeagar said:


> Of course they don't. Who said anything about a man owning a woman?


I don't know, my arse is owned and I like it. But hey I am also free to go on a holiday on my own if I wish without the fear that my partner is having a hissy fit over it. 

I own his arse too and he goes on trips without me.


----------



## lifeistooshort

samyeagar said:


> One thing I do wonder about this, and it hasn't come up as a possibility, but if his wife was just idily musing, floating an idea, could her choice of words simply not have been exact?
> 
> The reason I ask is that there is a mild trigger issue for me with my STBW that goes right along these lines. We sleep in the same bed she had with her ex husband, and boyfriend between her ex husband and myself. She is aware that I feel somewhat out of place in it, as if I am filling a spot held by someone else. She has done a very good job helping me with that issue, but occasionally someone will ask something like "Where do you want me to put this?" and she'll say "Go put it on my bed." To anyone else, herself included, there is absolutely nothing off, or anything else about what she said. Nobody would give it a second thought. Even though she said HER bed, not another person in the world besides me would take that to mean anything. To me, I picked up on the exact singular word. It wasn't "our" bed. It was her bed. But to anyone else, the "our" bed is implied if not explicity said.
> 
> Is it possible that she simply used the singular word with the assumed implication that she meant him as well? That she wasn't purposely and implicitly excluding him?


Why don't you get a new bed? When i divorced my ex the first thing I did was get a new bed, and when my hb and I moved in together we kept MY bed. As we are the only two people that have slept in it (he was the only man I dated after ex), it became our bed. His old bed, which has had God knows what trash in it, is in our spare room and we never touch it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> :rofl: Sorry, sockpuppets are funny!


lol,

Ok FF, I just " got it" and yeah , its funny!:rofl:

Always thought that being a mod was hard work, but I guess it has its perks!


----------



## Caribbean Man

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> _
> 
> ETA- Ah, nevermind. I'm out. I've spent too much time on this already. I don't like being called "dear" and there's just no conversation to be had here.
> _


_

My apologies.

Never meant to offend you, sorry you felt that way.
My bad. 
Whilst I'm on this thread I'm on another really nice thread in social with some really cool ladies of TAM and we always refer to each other using terms of endearment freely.

It's a term I'm accustomed using here on TAM and I didn't know it would have offended you.

My apology , but, it was nice chatting with you!_


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> It has it's perks.
> 
> To be clear though, Ms. Davis is the socky I was talking about.


I know!
You were VERY clear.
I almost fell over laughing when I first saw the term.
But you do have a dark , sharp sense of humor that I admire...


----------



## samyeagar

lifeistooshort said:


> Why don't you get a new bed? When i divorced my ex the first thing I did was get a new bed, and when my hb and I moved in together we kept MY bed. As we are the only two people that have slept in it (he was the only man I dated after ex), it became our bed. His old bed, which has had God knows what trash in it, is in our spare room and we never touch it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We have discussed my issue and we are going to get a new bed before we get married. The thing is, she is very partial to having a water bed, so it isn't going to be cheap, and that's the issue...money.

We have talked pretty honestly and openly about some of these types of things. She has said that if she were in my position, she doesn't think things like that would bother her at all, but admits that she just can't relate because it's always been her stuff, and she has never had to move into someone elses life, it's always been the other way around. She is fully on board with pretty much anything like getting a new bed because she knows it's an issue fo me, and that's good enough reason for her.


----------



## WyshIknew

We used to have a water bed. We had to get rid of it as we found we were drifting apart. Badda boom.


----------



## Caribbean Man

WyshIknew said:


> We used to have a water bed. We had to get rid of it as we found we were drifting apart. Badda boom.


Tried a waterbed once.

After a while , I started feeling seasick.


----------



## samyeagar

Caribbean Man said:


> Tried a waterbed once.
> 
> After a while , I started feeling seasick.


The only problem I've had with the water bed is it's a bit harder to get good leverage if you know what I mean


----------



## melw74

Caribbean Man said:


> Tried a waterbed once.
> 
> After a while , I started feeling seasick.


My mum and dad brought us a king size Airbed when we first moved into our property (never tried a waterbed)... It was only temporary while we waited for a new bed to be delivered.

We loved it so much tho, It was really comfortable, and i mean comfortable, so we decided to keep it for a while, well in this time the cats kept jumping on it, and it started to go weirdly out of shape, and bigger on one side (no joke) but it was soooo comfortable that you just sunk into it.

Took us a while to find out the reason for this was because one of the cats had put tiny punctures in and this is why it had gone so out of shape.

One morning we woke up and we could not get out of it we had sunk so far down in the middle, one of the most funniest things that had happened....

Not so funny that we had to call one of my oldest boys in tho to help us out of it tho.

I can never understand why we just did not get rid of it before it happened, the main reason was tho because it was comfortable and we loved it.

The bed we have now is hard as nails.

Maybe not wise for us to invest in a water bed,:scratchhead: I do not think we mix well:lol:


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> The only problem I've had with the water bed is it's a bit harder to get good leverage if you know what I mean


That foolish thing just keep rolling and rolling, kinda feels like you're on the ocean waves in a rubber dinghy, so you can't get to " anchor " yourself properly when you need to. lol!

Nice ,solid platform bed for us now.
Serious business.

A dysfunctional , uncomfortable bed is a curse to the sex life of a married or LTR couple.


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## Giro flee

These last few pages of discussion are a perfect example of why marriage can be so difficult.

A disagreement seems to have no compromise in sight, one spouse gets frustrated and says something hurtful. (Calling someone "dear" condescendingly) The other spouse points out the hurtful comment and the first one denies that it was, or tells them they are overly sensitive. (I call everyone "dear, especially the cool people"). Then the offender starts to act like everything is normal and the hurt spouse is just crazy, leaving them feeling disrespected and invalidated. (Change topic to non-controversial subject like beds). 

It really is difficult to apologize for hurtful comments because people do not want to feel ashamed of their behavior. The disrespected party closes off and walks away, resentment builds. 

The end of this thread is a perfect example of how not to resolve an issue. Passive aggressive name calling, manipulating, walking away, letting resentment build.


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## samyeagar

Giro flee said:


> These last few pages of discussion are a perfect example of why marriage can be so difficult.
> 
> A disagreement seems to have no compromise in sight, one spouse gets frustrated and says something hurtful. (Calling someone "dear" condescendingly) The other spouse points out the hurtful comment and the first one denies that it was, or tells them they are overly sensitive. (I call everyone "dear, especially the cool people"). Then the offender starts to act like everything is normal and the hurt spouse is just crazy, leaving them feeling disrespected and invalidated. *(Change topic to non-controversial subject like beds). *
> 
> It really is difficult to apologize for hurtful comments because people do not want to feel ashamed of their behavior. The disrespected party closes off and walks away, resentment builds.
> 
> The end of this thread is a perfect example of how not to resolve an issue. Passive aggressive name calling, manipulating, walking away, letting resentment build.


The bed thing came up because I was using that as an example of imprecise speech that can sometimes be taken the wrong way, and the possibility that people here may simply be reading too much into things. It was originally brought up in the context of the original issue with the OP. Then it resurfaced as a direct question, then it all went down hill from there...


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## Giro flee

samyeagar said:


> The bed thing came up because I was using that as an example of imprecise speech that can sometimes be taken the wrong way, and the possibility that people here may simply be reading too much into things. It was originally brought up in the context of the original issue with the OP. Then it resurfaced as a direct question, then it all went down hill from there...


It doesn't really matter what the off topic is. Whatever subject came up next will work, you just happened to post soon after.

My parents are masters of this method. My father is more of a hurl outright hurtful comments, then expect you to get over it, or you are too sensitive, you blow things out of proportion, etc. My mom is more of the passive aggressive insulter who denies ever meaning to hurt your feelings. Neither tactic is conducive to problem solving.

Most people feel that if they admit they were hurtful their entire side of the argument will be nullified so they are very resistant to admitting a hurtful comment was made. People need to learn how to argue fairly, how to apologize, and how to accept an apology. 

Most people get into the argument and really just want to see two sides, A or B. Right or Wrong. My way or your way. Learning how to accept others viewpoints as non threatening to our own can be very difficult.

I just found the way this thread ended to be very similar to how many married arguments end. This might be a good place to practice arguing fairly, with people who don't hold so much emotional baggage with us. 

I am a conflict avoider so I had to really force myself to post this because it makes me feel very vulnerable to other posters attacking or dismissing my viewpoint. This is how TAM helps me see my own shortcomings, by seeing them play out right in front of me.


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## WyshIknew

Well coincidentally, my daughter is trying to plan a little break later in the year. an overnight stay on a sister island.She was talking about it to Mrs Wysh last night.

My daughter eventually said "sorry dad, I haven't asked if you'll be coming."

Me, "Will you be shopping?"

Daughter, "Yes."

Me, "No thanks."

I have absolutely no interest in doing woman stuff and my wife has no interest in doing man stuff. Having said that, if we couldn't afford the time or money to do our single trips we would sacrifice them for our joint holidays.

As far as the OP goes I would say this.


*If* they could afford the time and money they should go together on a break.

However if this is not possible and if she really is totally strung out and mentally exhausted then as a concerned spouse he should facilitate a little break for her, and try not to let it get to this stage again.

I know this is easier said than done but a stitch in time really does save nine.

As mentioned several times in this thread it really is about communication, and the communication should go both ways.

In future both he and she should not let things get to the stage where 'drastic' measures are necessary.

There are so many ways to de-stress, hobbies for instance.

Offload the kids for a weekend with your parents and do your own thing. If you haven't got parents nearby do a deal with trusted friends on a quid pro quo basis.

Book her in for a spa and massage, beauty treatment, whatever.

Just don't let it get to this stage again, and they both bear responsibility for that.


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## alexm

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Why not? I have not been around as long as you but I have read many, many threads.


I don't know if you've noticed yet, but you've been around LONGER than CM. Don't associate post numbers with expertise on an internet message board, or discount yours, or anybody else's words here simply because of something like that. There's a pervasive attitude on ANY message board that one has to "pay their dues" before they are taken seriously. Sure, the ones who have been around long enough AND who are respectful and provide good input SHOULD have a little more respect, but not to the point where # of posts = instant respect. It's a combination of being around AND contributing respectfully and intelligently.

There are a handful of people here who have thousands of posts, some of them made over several years, some of them over a relatively short period of time. I find the ones who have a high post count over a longer period of time tend to jump into a thread with their (usually quite sage) advice once or twice, because that's all that's needed. Others, with high post counts over a shorter time period tend to put their advice in virtually every thread of interest, then continue to post to hammer home their points until they're satisfied everybody else sees it their way.

Yes, it's condescending, whether there is name calling, patronization, or not. Continuing to hammer ones views until satisfied the other is sufficiently "owned" another is a problem on all message boards, including this one. Even if the poster(s) are technically keeping it civil. Calling someone "dear" can be taken the same way as calling someone "***hole" - condescending and rude - but technically, you did not use any bad language, therefore it's "okay". No rules were broken. It's just a civil discussion.

When called out, these people use the "we're just having a discussion" reply, which is true enough. But HOW that discussion is being written out is the real issue. Most often, these things should be taken to PM so as not to turn a post into 26+ pages of "discussion". More often, these people are on these boards SO often, they no longer realize what the actual aim is, and they are no longer aware of how they portray themselves.

Some people just like to feel important, I guess.


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## RAN

Finsrule do you want this thread to continue ???

Mods take action.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

finsrule said:


> She said to me, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my Aunt and Uncle in Fl for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> I get that, she has been under a lot of stress from work, she does need that.
> 
> I am just having a hard time with her saying "I", not considering her family or me. *Why by herself?* How is she going to decompress with you? You will come on the vacation with your own set of expectations, benign though they may be:
> 
> Hey, honey, let's go for a walk on the beach?
> Let's go to that new seafood restaurant for dinner.
> Wanna get up early and watch the sunrise?
> 
> There's nothing wrong with ANY of those things, but MAYBE what she wants is some ALONE TIME. Totally ALONE. From everyone! (If she could afford to go to a hotel in FL and stay ALONE, she'd probably prefer that. As a houseguest SOME of her time will have to be spent doing what her aunt/uncle want.)
> 
> Eat breakfast ONLY if she feels like it and what she feels like.
> Walk alone on the beach with her OWN thoughts and not have to chitchat/converse with anyone. No matter how innocuous the conversation or how much she loves the other person.
> Walk for an hour if she feels like it, sit for THREE hours if she feels like it without someone else wanting to move on, go back, eat lunch, talk, whatever.
> 
> Why not ask if it was possible the 2 of us could go?
> 
> So maybe I am insecure but it does seem like she wants to be away from the family. My H was NOT interested in the things that interested me (reading, museums, art galleries, people watching, local attractions, etc.), so a vacation without him (which I never got) would have allowed me to enjoy the things that are enjoyable to me without him either REFUSING for us to do them or going along with such ill-grace that it ruined the experience for me...looking at his watch, huffing impatiently because HE was BORED. Not accusing YOU of this behavior, but sometimes people should do the things they LOVE without impediment of others. Sometimes they should do the things they LOVE with others in an attempt to share/introduce new things. There should be BOTH (alone and shared) times in a healthy relationship.
> 
> I will talk to her for sure, I appreciate the advice, please send more and ask other questions if need be or if I haven't answered any that you have asked.
> 
> Thanks all


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## WyshIknew

Love this post Slowly.

What we do when we are away is a quid pro quo arrangement.

I love museums, old buildings, etc. Mrs Wysh not so much.

Mrs Wysh would be an Olympic medal contender if shopping was a sport, me not so much.

So while we might spend an afternoon or day in a town centre mooching through shops looking at stuff "Lets go to the next shop, it might be cheaper there". 
We will ensure that the next bit of the holiday is doing something I like.

We also find it quite refreshing to spend a little time apart doing our own thing.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser

TRy said:


> When you put something in quotes, it means that is what they exactly said. Although you quote the word "thinking", she actually said "think". *The specific quote of the wife by the OP was "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my aunt and uncle for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress".* Saying that "I think I am going to" do something, followed by an "I need" to justify it, is not the same as I am "thinking" of doing something and asking for input. Based on what the OP actually said, the wife was not asking for the husband's input, and for you to imply otherwise is disingenuous.


If we're going to quibble about grammar and interpretation then let us not miss the most important word (IF) and phrase (I can stay with)...

...the presumption being that if she cannot stay with them, then she will no longer be CONSIDERING the idea period ...because she knows they have no money for a vacation for her that is not FREE or darned near free!

And, again, for all the men who are sure she's meeting up surreptitiously with some man (or looking for 'strange') this was never presented by the wife to the OP as a "done deal". 

She SAID "I THINK" as in I had an idea, I am contemplating, I am mulling over, I am considering.

She SAID "I am GOING TO SEE IF" upon which any additional contemplating, mulling, considering will be predicated! 

If the answer is "NO" from aunt/uncle, the thinking, contemplating, mulling, considering is DONE.

If the answer is "YES" from aunt/uncle, more thinking, contemplating, mulling, considering will be done, no doubt with input from OP since she DID tell him about this *proposed* vacation UP FRONT and didn't just get in the car or hop a plane leaving him and the kids a note as some of you WILDER SPECULATORS seem to imply she did or is going to do.


*Just my observation:* those people on TAM who've been badly burned by a badly-behaved spouse would do well to read lots of the excellent books recommended by others here on TAM. It's alright to feel frustrated/furious/vengeful FOR A WHILE, but at some point it is in your OWN BEST INTEREST to get some help by reading, counseling, or both!

Good luck to ALL TAM members as they try to fill voids and live healthier lives for themselves and everyone they care about! *Special shout-out to CroMagnonMan *- I *know* you had a rough year in 2013 and I am ALL in your corner. Hope you and your son are doing better, that you find a great measure of healing in 2014, and that you and your little guy move forward in the happiest healthiest ways THIS YEAR!!! *hugs*


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## temperance

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Originally Posted by finsrule
> She said to me, "I think I am going to see if I can stay with my Aunt and Uncle in Fl for a week, I need to lay on a beach and decompress"
> 
> I get that, she has been under a lot of stress from work, she does need that.
> 
> I am just having a hard time with her saying "I", not considering her family or me.


I totally agree with SlowlyGettingWiser's response. 
So your wife is supposed to do everything with "We" in mind and be 100% totally devote all herself to the family while she is in a marriage with you for the rest of her life? You expect her to totally lost herself at all time? You disregard her needs and feel that she is selfish? 

Come on man, even if you work in corporate or run a country, and that everything you do should be for the bigger goal, for the company, for the people, for the country, like a GOOD employee / politician should.... YOU still allow and feel the need to have VACATIONS do you?!


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