# Am I the jerk here? (long post, sorry)



## LaundryMan

Hi everyone. I'm new here and want feedback, particularly from women. My situation is complicated, so here goes.

My wife and I have been married for 7 years. We don't have kids but we have sole custody of her 11 year old from her first marriage, who I think of as my kid (I've been with her mom since she was 1 and her real dad hasn't been very involved). We have different emotional types, I'm rational and cold while she's hot-headed and passionate. But I've always thought that was a strength because we balance out each other's bad qualities, and our marriage was good for the first 5 years.

Two years ago we had to move to a different part of the country for my work...I landed a spectacular job, but in a place where neither of us wanted to live (it's expensive here). My wife almost had a fit because she's never cared about a career. She's an artist (writing and music), hated her dull office job, and had hoped that with my big career move she could be a SAHM and play music or maybe teach piano on the side. I knew it would be tough, but I promised her that if she would agree to move, I would make sure she wouldn't have to do a job she hates. She agreed and we moved. Then she turned into a completely different person.

First, while looking for a place to live, we were jerked around by realtors and mortgage agents. That wasn't either of our fault. But she had totally unrealistic demands for what she wanted in a house. She insisted on living in a rural area with no neighbors, on enough land that she could raise animals (chickens, goats, etc.), AND cheaply enough that we could do it on a single income with some money to put away each month. This in one of the most crowded and expensive parts of the US. After finding nothing and living in temporary housing for a month, she lost patience with finding a place to live. She took our kid and moved back in with her parents, telling me "we'll come back when you find us a house." I was left alone, living in a hotel in an unfamiliar city, trying to do my new job and find a house that matched her demands, all at the same time. After three months of shirking my duties at my new job, I finally found a place that she could live with...semi-rural with a large yard, very cheap but also very far from my work. While I was looking for this place she treated me quite badly, angrily shooting down every suggestion I made over the phone, saying things like "it's insulting that you think I'd live in a house like that". She looked up houses online and asked me to take the time to go look at them (she was far away), and insisted it was "up to me" but still kept meddling in the process. When I finally found our current house, she agreed to come back and I considered myself lucky and thought the ordeal was over.

When she moved in, she did try to be a SAHM and to grow our own food in the yard. She got chickens. But in the process she lost all interest in spending time with me. I'll admit that my work eats up huge amounts of my time (and the 1-hour commute each way doesn't help), but it's nice to interact with my wife and kid in the small amount of time I do get to see them. But I don't get to choose when I have to be at work, and she sets a ridiculous schedule for herself. She gets up around 3-4 am and writes; I get up at 5:30 and have maybe 15 minutes with her before I have to leave to catch a long-haul bus. I get home around 6 most days, but she goes to bed between 7 and 8. This means I get at most an hour to have dinner and talk to her before she goes to bed, and I can _not_ make myself go to bed at 7. She does not want to adjust her sleep schedule: "that's just how my body is", she says, and expects me to accommodate her (even though doing so means I have to choose between spending time with her and spending time with my daughter in the evenings). She does usually cook dinner, which is nice (and I tell her so).

This last fall her behavior started getting weirder. She wanted to make plans to travel for the holidays and needed someone to feed the chickens while we were gone. But she refused to ask anybody in our town, because she "doesn't like talking to people" and "you can't trust people in towns like this, they'll steal your stuff." I told her I would find someone to watch the chickens when I had time (this was in late October). When I hadn't done so in a day or two, she said "well, we'll stay with my parents for the whole winter break; you'll just have to fly up to [her hometown] the day before Christmas and fly back the day after so the chickens don't starve." Nice to see the chickens outrank me. So I asked around my work the next day and found someone to watch the chickens (keep in mind this was a month or more before Christmas, hardly something that had to be done urgently, and they're _her_ chickens). Then she agreed that I could come with them on the trip to her parents' for Christmas. I told her that I felt hurt she said I should stay home and watch the chickens rather than spend the holiday with her and our kid, and she said "well, you wouldn't find anyone to watch them; what choice did I have?"

In the last couple of months it's gotten much worse. She's begun hanging around the local park with these local no-good types who drink and smoke weed in the park all day. Among them is a schizophrenic teenager whose parents ignore him, and whom my wife has claimed as her new best friend. She spends almost all her time with him: according to her, she does an hour or so of housework in the morning, then works in the garden for a while, and when this guy gets up they meet at the park and hang out together all day long. They play on the swings and go for walks. Every day. Weekends included. I don't care that she does when I'm not home, but my daughter and I would like a little attention when we're around, but she insists she needs time with her friends "too." (I have no friends at all). On Valentines day I got her some nice things and asked her if she wanted to come on a hike in the woods with me and the kid; she texted me back saying "no, but want to come to the park with me and hang out?" She ended up coming home after dark that day, not drunk but clearly having been drinking. Dinner was cold and daughter and I had been worried about her. When we told her we felt hurt by her absence, she said "well, I invited you to come along!" (Yeah, just how I want to spend valentines' day, drinking at the park with a bunch of tweekers).

It gets worse. A few days after that, my daughter (who walks past this park on her way home from school) saw her mom at the park with said tweekers and schizophrenic teenager, and my wife told her "I'll be home at 4". She (daughter) told me this when I got home at 6 to find her sitting alone in the house, hungry. My wife had left her phone on the counter so we couldn't contact her to see where she was. So we went out looking for her mom just as it was starting to get dark. We finally found her, riding her bike down an unlit street with no headlight, in the dark, so drunk she could barely ride. I had to drag her home. The next day she was embarrassed, but would not admit she'd done anything irresponsible. "I just drank too much."

Then 2 weeks ago came the worst incident. We were invited to a housewarming party at a nice couple's house in our town. We went and hung out for a while and it was fun. I left early to take the daughter home (she was bored and there were no other kids her age there). My wife, once again, said she'd be home shortly but didn't come home until after dark, again almost too drunk to stand up. The next day I found out she'd left the party, found her schizophrenic teenage friend at the park, brought him back (uninvited) to the party, and the two proceeded to get wasted and make a big scene in which the teenager had a psychiatric freakout. They got thrown out and we are no longer welcome at this nice couple's house. I've tried to go over and apologize in person but they seem to be avoiding me, not answering the door. Wife refuses to admit that she did anything wrong, other than drink too much. She says "if they can't handle my friends, then they're a******s and I don't want to see them anyway." This has become her excuse for all her misdeeds: anyone who doesn't like her hanging out with losers "just doesn't understand me" and "thinks they're too good for my friends".

I've tried to inform her of her childish behavior in the direct way counselors always suggest: "When you ______, I feel _______". She cannot accept that she's done anything wrong. It's always someone else's fault. When I tell her she's hurt me, she says "when?". I then list all the things she's done to hurt me (leaving me to find her a home, hanging out with losers instead of her family, embarrassing me at the party, other stuff not mentioned here), and she turns the conversation around and says "why do you keep bringing up all this stuff from the past? It's over. Quit being so butt-hurt about it." (She uses the term "butt-hurt" on me about 50 times a day.) She says that she never meant to hurt me; when I point out that intentional or not, she IS hurting me, she replies "that's just because you don't understand me; you don't have feelings like normal people do." She also insists that I'm autistic, and when I pointed out that I've been seeing mental health professionals for my entire adult life and _not one_ has ever suggested I'm on the autism spectrum (I'm simply quiet and emotionally unexpressive, which is _not_ the same thing), she said "so you're going to believe them and not me?" This coming from a woman who, by her own admission, got the autism idea from 3 friends on FB. She cherry-picks my words to use against me: a month or two ago I told her that I don't need her to comfort my anxieties about my career any more, now that I have the job I always wanted. Then she later said "you told me yourself that you don't need me." When I call her on her selective quoting, she either denies it ("no, that's exactly what you said") or turns it back on me: "you just don't understand the way I tell you how I feel. Only [crazy teen] understands how I feel. You wouldn't understand because you don't have feelings; you're autistic."

I know this post has made my wife out to be a monster and that isn't my intention. She's a good person who was once very supportive and responsible. When I was struggling with anxiety about my career and making little money at jobs I hated, she was there for me. I do love her. But it isn't just me who thinks she's changed. Her parents think she's being irresponsible ("they're irresponsible," she says). Her daughter is embarrassed by her and wants to spend her time with me instead ("all kids are embarrassed by their parents when they're 11," she says). The pastor at our church is so concerned that she's taking my wife out for a day of "girl stuff" this weekend as a kind of one-on-one intervention.

And I'm no saint myself. I haven't always been a good husband. I've always been extremely career-focused and sometimes have put the family aside for that. I did move us to an expensive place that none of us like that much. I have said hurtful, unnecessary things when pushed over the edge of anger. My wife tells me she feels sexually unwanted, and she has a good point there. I have zero interest in sex, with her or anyone, and even when I did I would rarely initiate. That's 100% my fault, due to my personal anxieties (long story short, I was raised to believe no woman would ever want me sexually, and that desiring sex with a woman was chauvinistic and disrespectful). I've tried to work on that with my wife but it's been extremely hard for me. The antidepressant medication I take is part of the problem...but if I didn't take it I wouldn't be able to hold down a job. I know because I've gone off it before. I hate taking it and I hate what it does to me but I really have no choice if I want to be responsible.

I consider myself fortunate...I have a job I love, no financial debt besides my mortgage, and I'm in reasonably good health. But my job and my family are all I have. I've always put all my energy into work, so I don't have any friends and not much in the way of outside interests. And now it looks like my family is falling apart. I think I would give up my job to go back to how it was before we moved here and my wife decided that my career success means she gets to spend the rest of her life living like a spoiled 13-year-old. If I hadn't taken this job, she wouldn't be acting like this...or at least that how it seems to me. I'd rather not get divorced because I do love her, and because I'd probably never see my stepdaughter again...since I'm not her biological dad and I never adopted her, I would be at her mom's mercy legally. And I know the first thing she'd do is pack up and move back in with her parents, 1100 miles away.

I'm in this alone, which is why I posted here. Again, I have no friends outside work, I have very little relationship with my own family, and my options look like trying to live with my wife's irresponsibility, or get divorced and never see my daughter again. She's agreed in theory to MC, but she insists that I be the one to find someone and set it up, and I'm working on it, but I have very little time during the workweek (and will probably have to take time out of work to go to counseling). I will give it a shot but I don't expect much. My wife has already decided that she's in the right and my hurt feelings are all because (in the words of a FB friend of hers) I "just didn't want to be married to an artist."

Thank you if you made it through all this, even if you leave no comment. It's taken me hours to write this out in a few sittings, and it's good to vent. Now to spend the rest of my coffee break looking for that MC, I guess. That and feeling like an ungrateful idiot.


----------



## lenzi

Why was it up to you to find someone to watch her chickens?


----------



## Pluto2

Sounds like your wife needs a real intervention. She is drifting into substance abuse and unless it stops, it will likely become worse.
Also talk with your MD about your meds. The side effects for anti-depressants aren't all the same and it may be time to try a different med, or combo that your body tolerates better.

She is screwing up her life, your life and your daughter's life. You can't control it, but you can show her that you will not tolerate it. This does mean divorce. If she is still going to church, run it by the pastor, maybe some type of separation while your wife gets treatment for substance abuse. Does she want to lose her child and you all so she can hang out at the park with the twerkers?


----------



## SecondTime'Round

You don't sound like a jerk at all. She sounds really unbalanced right now, and completely unsupportive of you. Her making you do all of the house-hunting, making her find a chicken-sitter for her chickens, and thinking it's even remotely socially acceptable how she spends her days at the park.....all of this isn't even close to being normal. Where exactly does she even drink with this teenager? If she's providing him alcohol, does she realize she could end up in jail? (Actually, that might be just the wake-up call she needs). 

Sorry finding a MC is all on you, but I really think it's necessary! Maybe after she spends time with the pastor this weekend, you could call the pastor and ask for some recommendations for counselors?


----------



## LaundryMan

Pluto2 said:


> If she is still going to church, run it by the pastor, maybe some type of separation while your wife gets treatment for substance abuse.


That sounds like a pretty good idea, since the pastor is one of the very few people wife will listen to (up to a point). It will be a little uncomfortable because I'm not actually part of the church myself (I'll go with wife occasionally). But this is a serious issue.

As for the meds, I have tried just about every antidepressant currently on the market except the old, dangerous MAOI's. This is the only one that seems to have an effect on me. Plus, the withdrawal effects are debilitating, so I don't want to switch unless I know for sure that whatever I replace it with works better.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Laundry Man…that’s a good name because you have a Laundry list of problems.

It sounds like what was originally two people struggling to get closer has turned into one of the partners getting her emotional needs met with a questionable personality.
To be honest, it sounds like she manipulated herself into a dream situation and is now just running wild.

Right now it’s a EA for sure and a PA in the making.
Can you do some snooping and see if she what her online activity is?

I think the worst part is how she seems to be neglecting her daughter. 
I would be sorely ashamed if my daughter caught me hanging out in the park with trolls.

You may also want to check in with a lawyer to see if there are any looming deadlines like Alimony for life versus a few years.

In all seriousness, you need to take a few steps back and look at this for what it is.
Can you be objective about the long term effects if this keeps going?


----------



## Orange_Pekoe

I have to say, she DOES sound extremely irresponsible. I found myself shaking my head many times while reading your post. It made me very sad that a mother would do those things...trust me, I'm a mother to a 2 year old.

That being said - ask yourself what the cause of it is? Why is she spending more time with this retarded teenager than with you and your daughter? Is it because she feels very lonely, since you are at work most of the time? She's filling the void with someone else?

You need to cut off this relationship she has with the teenager...it's not healthy. It's affecting your marriage and your daughter. It needs to end.

And for the other emotional issues (refusing to take responsibility, being hurtful toward you)...counselling. Counselling! Find the time!


----------



## happy as a clam

She needs to go to AA, and you would benefit from Al-Anon.

Find out who this schizophrenic teenager is... is he 18 or older, or still a minor? That could spell real trouble for your wife. Is he under the care of a physician or social worker, taking his schiz meds, a drifter? Perhaps a call to the local mental health services could help you sort it out.

Personally, I'd unload the chickens, sell the house, and move yourself and your daughter closer to work. If your wife wants to come along, then she has to commit to the marriage, go to AA, and clean up her act. Otherwise, she can stay behind and live in the park with her friends.


----------



## LaundryMan

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Why is she spending more time with this retarded teenager than with you and your daughter? Is it because she feels very lonely, since you are at work most of the time? She's filling the void with someone else?


She claims it's because nobody else will spend time with him (and it's true, he's an outcast and his mother makes my wife look like Mother Teresa...he's actually 18, I think, so CPS can't get involved). She says that he needs someone who will listen to him and not be neglectful, like his parents. I can respect that, but her family also needs her attention. On top of that, she's got this image of herself as a rogue outcast that nobody understands or has a place for in society. So she feels like she and this kid can relate to each other, and I can't because I work for The Man, and am too "normal" to appreciate her. Of course, the more she does all this irresponsible stuff, the less I want to be involved in her affairs, so it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy...I really _can't_ relate to someone in their late 30's who wants to spend the whole day playing on the swings.

She said the other day she would stop hanging around with him, but not because it hurts my feelings--because she's worried about HIS feelings (he's afraid of me and is convinced that I'm going to go after him for wrecking my marriage...which is completely untrue, things were going downhill before he ever entered the picture, but he's schizophrenic so he can't be reasoned with). But she's still going to his house every day "just to talk". There may be some EA going on but I'm not worried about a PA. This guy doesn't like to be touched and, again, is afraid of being blamed for wrecking my marriage.


----------



## happy as a clam

LaundryMan said:


> She claims it's because nobody else will spend time with him (and it's true, he's an outcast and his mother makes my wife look like Mother Teresa...he's actually 18, I think, so CPS can't get involved). *She says that he needs someone who will listen to him and not be neglectful, like his parents.*


Oh Boo hoo... Alcoholics (addicts in general) are ALWAYS trying to help everyone but THEMSELVES. It's so convenient to focus your attention on someone else's problems so you don't have to face your own!

Too bad for the teen, but the truth is its not her job (or yours) to take care of him ... he's an adult, he can get aid and assisstance through Mental Health Services. I suggest an "anonymous call" to the agency. Tell them there is an "older woman" loitering in the park with him and you're worried she's trying to scam him.

Your primary concern should be for your daughter, YOU, and your job, in that order.

Your wife and the boy can take the chickens to the park.


----------



## turnera

Oh, so many issues here.

First, read No More Mr Nice Guy. You are a COMPLETE beta male and you need to fix that TODAY. READ THE BOOK.

Second, your wife has emotional issues, probably bipolar or BPD or something similar. Go to a therapist yourself, describe the situation, and get the therapist's opinion on what illness you're dealing with.

Third, ask your therapist to help you deal with an overpowering female and a weak male (you). He/she should be able to give you concrete STEPS to take to make a difference.

Fourth, if you want to stay married to her, you have to learn all about boundaries and consequences. When you have an out of control spouse, your only choice is to create YOUR BOUNDARIES (what you'll accept in your life) and also YOUR CONSEQUENCES (what you'll do once those boundaries are crossed). Please trust me, this is the ONLY way you'll survive in this marriage.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I'm going to take an opposing view here, but what else is new?

Sounds to me like this move and job isn't good for your family. Your wife didn't want it, you don't spend much time at home and admittedly you're not very family focused....to be honest you don't sound like good marriage material or someone that really wants to be married. True your wife is handling things poorly but you really set this up by taking a job that suited you with little regard for your family. 

And on top of that you basically have no sex life with your wife courtesy of you. I'm surprised nobody has commented on this, if you were a women admitting she had no sex with her husband everyone would lose their minds over how rejected that would make him feel. Why exactly do you want to be married to her if you don't want sex and only want to worry about your career? Get a divorce and then do what you want, and she can find someone that wants a marriage with her. What does she get out of this marriage anyway? A husband who doesn't want her sexually and who really doesn't give a rat's behind about anything but what he wants? Because that's what I'm getting out of this.

This situation isn't working for you family, so calling your wife names is unhelpful. You can either get divorced at which time she'll move back to her parents and you can spend all your time focusing on your career or you can discuss another arrangement that works better for the family, which may involved another move. Sorry.


----------



## aine

lifeistooshort said:


> I'm going to take an opposing view here, but what else is new?
> 
> Sounds to me like this move and job isn't good for your family. Your wife didn't want it, you don't spend much time at home and admittedly you're not very family focused....to be honest you don't sound like good marriage material or someone that really wants to be married. True your wife is handling things poorly but you really set this up by taking a job that suited you with little regard for your family.
> 
> And on top of that you basically have no sex life with your wife courtesy of you. I'm surprised nobody has commented on this, if you were a women admitting she had no sex with her husband everyone would lose their minds over how rejected that would make him feel. Why exactly do you want to be married to her if you don't want sex and only want to worry about your career? Get a divorce and then do what you want, and she can find someone that wants a marriage with her. What does she get out of this marriage anyway? A husband who doesn't want her sexually and who really doesn't give a rat's behind about anything but what he wants? Because that's what I'm getting out of this.
> 
> This situation isn't working for you family, so calling your wife names is unhelpful. You can either get divorced at which time she'll move back to her parents and you can spend all your time focusing on your career or you can discuss another arrangement that works better for the family, which may involved another move. Sorry.


I have a tendancy to go with lifeistooshort on this one. Your move has caused your wife to become lost and unbalanced, this often happens. The way she is isolating herself and hanging out with someone much younger than her suggests she is not coping very well at all with the move. In short it seems more a cry for help. You work all the time, and rarely have any engagement. Her sleeping and rising hours are strange to be sure (where they always like this) or is it a way of insulating herself from you as you are actually the cause of the move and her meltdown? She doesn't know how to deal with the move, lack of friends, family etc, it can be quite a traumatic thing especially out in the countryside alone. Her shananigans about finding the house sounds as if she was making it as difficult as possible for you , she wasn't fully on board. If you make a move like this everyone must be fully on board and especially the SAHM. I would consider this from another angle, it is not all about you!


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Where are you getting there is no sex courtesy of HIM, lifeistooshort? I read the exact opposite. She is in bed by 7 - 8 pm and wont adjust. Was it somewhere else in his post that I missed? She also ultimately agreed to the move.

Regardless of whether you feel he was unjust taking this job or not, and I can partly see a case for that, reality is her behavior is deplorable. She abandoned him for a while just because of brattiness. That was CRUEL. Here is this guy who literally takes a job that will enable her to pursue her hearts desires as an artist and she freaks when she does get what she wants in a house and finally implodes. She is so unstable its not even funny. She needs a swift kick in the a$$.

She turned what could be a lucrative job and great provision for his family into a nightmare. 

Op, what kind of lifestyle did yall leave behind? Were yall in the city, or on a farm?


----------



## syhoybenden

Since you give her no sex life, did you ever consider that perhaps she has gone to seek one out on her own? ...perhaps with some poor troubled unloved dysfunctional teenager??


----------



## chillymorn

unrepairable!

shes falling off the deep end and acting horrible.

call the police and report her giving alcohol to teenagers and smoking pot with them.

then file for divorce.

totally ridiculous behavior. and she will not change until she hits rock bottom. 

really sit down and think about this. your not going to be able to fix hear. protect yourself and the daughter even your daughter know mom has major problems.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blossom Leigh said:


> Where are you getting there is no sex courtesy of HIM, lifeistooshort? I read the exact opposite. She is in bed by 7 - 8 pm and wont adjust. Was it somewhere else in his post that I missed? She also ultimately agreed to the move.
> 
> Regardless of whether you feel he was unjust taking this job or not, and I can partly see a case for that, reality is her behavior is deplorable. She abandoned him for a while just because of brattiness. That was CRUEL. Here is this guy who literally takes a job that will enable her to pursue her hearts desires as an artist and she freaks when she does get what she wants in a house and finally implodes. She is so unstable its not even funny. She needs a swift kick in the a$$.
> 
> She turned what could be a lucrative job and great provision for his family into a nightmare.
> 
> Op, what kind of lifestyle did yall leave behind? Were yall in the city, or on a farm?


Right from OP's own mouth:

And I'm no saint myself. I haven't always been a good husband. I've always been extremely career-focused and sometimes have put the family aside for that. I did move us to an expensive place that none of us like that much. I have said hurtful, unnecessary things when pushed over the edge of anger. *My wife tells me she feels sexually unwanted, and she has a good point there. I have zero interest in sex, with her or anyone, and even when I did I would rarely initiate. That's 100% my fault, due to my personal anxieties (long story short, I was raised to believe no woman would ever want me sexually, and that desiring sex with a woman was chauvinistic and disrespectful). I've tried to work on that with my wife but it's been extremely hard for me. The antidepressant medication I take is part of the problem*...but if I didn't take it I wouldn't be able to hold down a job. I know because I've gone off it before. I hate taking it and I hate what it does to me but I really have no choice if I want to be responsible.


She didn't want this move and she doesn't have a husband. He doesn't want sex with her, he doesn't really want to spend much time with her, she should pretty much exist for the few minutes here and there it's convenient for him to hang around. She has someone who pays bills and that's it, and she no longer has family/friends/the place she loves to live. Doesn't sound like much of a life to me. Frankly everyone would be better off if she just took her daughter and went home, then OP could just think about work and nothing else. I'd lose my mind married to him too.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

lifeistooshort said:


> Right from OP's own mouth:
> 
> And I'm no saint myself. I haven't always been a good husband. I've always been extremely career-focused and sometimes have put the family aside for that. I did move us to an expensive place that none of us like that much. I have said hurtful, unnecessary things when pushed over the edge of anger. *My wife tells me she feels sexually unwanted, and she has a good point there. I have zero interest in sex, with her or anyone, and even when I did I would rarely initiate. That's 100% my fault, due to my personal anxieties (long story short, I was raised to believe no woman would ever want me sexually, and that desiring sex with a woman was chauvinistic and disrespectful). I've tried to work on that with my wife but it's been extremely hard for me. The antidepressant medication I take is part of the problem*...but if I didn't take it I wouldn't be able to hold down a job. I know because I've gone off it before. I hate taking it and I hate what it does to me but I really have no choice if I want to be responsible.
> 
> 
> She didn't want this move and she doesn't have a husband. He doesn't want sex with her, he doesn't really want to spend much time with her, she should pretty much exist for the few minutes here and there it's convenient for him to hang around. She has someone who pays bills and that's it, and she no longer has family/friends/the place she loves to live. Doesn't sound like much of a life to me. Frankly everyone would be better off if she just took her daughter and went home, then OP could just think about work and nothing else. I'd lose my mind married to him too.


He is on meds that affect his sex life. That doesn't excuse her behavior or her refusal to shift her hours to spend more time with him when he asked. Nor is he to blame for her renigging on her agreement for this move. That's on her. If she was going to renig, she shouldn't have given her word. If she realized she shouldnt have given her word after the fact, then suck it up buttercup, but don't abandon your husband because you can't give an accurate word.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blossom Leigh said:


> He is on meds that affect his sex life. That doesn't excuse her behavior or her refusal to shift her hours to spend more time with him when he asked. Nor is he to blame for her renigging on her agreement for this move. That's on her. If she was going to renig, she shouldn't have given her word. If she realized she shouldnt have given her word after the fact, then suck it up buttercup, but don't abandon your husband because you can't give an accurate word.



We're going to have to disagree. A man would never be asked to accept a sexless life because his wife has issues and takes anxiety meds. TAM would demand that she get to the doctor to resolve it because men can't be sexless. 

And by his own admission he's really not family focused. They are a convenience to him and little more.

Don't see where she gave her word, he talked her into it by claiming she wouldn't have to work. But this move isn't working for her, so demanding she stfu and support him isn't going to work. That's why it's better for her to leave and he can spend all good time working and not have to worry about anyone else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Blossom Leigh

lifeistooshort said:


> We're going to have to disagree. A man would never be asked to accept a sexless life because his wife has issues and takes anxiety meds. TAM would demand that she get to the doctor to resolve it because men can't be sexless.
> 
> And by his own admission he's really not family focused. They are a convenience to him and little more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't care what TAM would demand.

There is no excuse for her behavior.

So if we have to disagree... that's ok.

This not working for her does not give her license to go off the rails and abuse her husband.


----------



## Pluto2

lifeistooshort said:


> We're going to have to disagree. A man would never be asked to accept a sexless life because his wife has issues and takes anxiety meds. TAM would demand that she get to the doctor to resolve it because men can't be sexless.
> 
> And by his own admission he's really not family focused. They are a convenience to him and little more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Going to disagree with you on this. Men and women who have a spouse with a medical condition accept sexless periods in the marriage. Even those who don't handle the lack of sex particularly well don't run to the local park and pick up psycho-teens, drink to excess, and neglect their kids.
There is way more going on with this woman than a lack of sex from her husband.


----------



## happy as a clam

C'mon Lila... his psychological issues and medication issues have NOTHING to do with a late-30s woman slumming in a park with a mental-case teenager, drinking all day and possibly smoking pot and/or other drugs. Never mind their sex life, her behavior as a mother is atrocious. That poor little daughter.

The wife's behavior is deplorable. She humiliated the entire family by dragging the schiz teen to a party and proceeded to get drunk and thrown out.

If she's that unhappy with their sex life (and SHE hasn't told us she is, we've only heard his side) she should address it like a mature adult. Loitering in a park all day with near-homeless people isn't the solution.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blossom Leigh said:


> I don't care what TAM would demand.
> 
> There is no excuse for her behavior.
> 
> So if we have to disagree... that's ok.
> 
> This not working for her does not give her license to go off the rails and abuse her husband.


Ok, disagreement happens. I just think the dynamic between the two of them is not healthy. He doesn't have sex with her, he pushed a move she didn't want because it suited him, he's not family oriented..... they're a poor match. It happens. According to him she has done a lot of supporting him throughout their marriage and he has done little but take. They're incompatible. 

But he wanted to know what women think, now he knows what two of us think.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lenzi

happy as a clam said:


> Loitering in a park all day with near-homeless people isn't the solution.


Look on the bright side, at least it's inexpensive entertainment.


----------



## lifeistooshort

happy as a clam said:


> C'mon Lila... his psychological issues and medication issues have NOTHING to do with a late-30s woman slumming in a park with a mental-case teenager, drinking all day and possibly smoking pot and/or other drugs. Never mind their sex life, her behavior as a mother is atrocious. That poor little daughter.
> 
> The wife's behavior is deplorable. She humiliated the entire family by dragging the schiz teen to a party and proceeded to get drunk and thrown out.
> 
> If she's that unhappy with their sex life (and SHE hasn't told us she is, we've only heard his side) she should address it like a mature adult. Loitering in a park all day with near-homeless people isn't the solution.


Well she's not here, but he told us she was unhappy with it when he said she feels unwanted sexually.

I would agree that she's acting crazy, I just think he has a big part in the dynamic that created it. She'd be best off to leave him and get herself together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pluto2

lenzi said:


> Look on the bright side, at least it's inexpensive entertainment.


except if this ends up in divorce, then it costs them all. He posted in the considering divorce thread, so its already on his mind.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

lifeistooshort said:


> Ok, disagreement happens. I just think the dynamic between the two of them is not healthy. He doesn't have sex with her, he pushed a move she didn't want because it suited him, he's not family oriented..... they're a poor match. It happens. According to him she has done a lot of supporting him throughout their marriage and he has done little but take. They're incompatible.
> 
> But he wanted to know what women think, now he knows what two of us think.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed, there is a lot of work to be done here which is why I really liked Turnera's post... she nailed all of it in a few sentences


----------



## Blossom Leigh

lifeistooshort said:


> Well she's not here, but he told us she was unhappy with it when he said she feels unwanted sexually.
> 
> I would agree that she's acting crazy, I just think he has a big part in the dynamic that created it. She'd be best off to leave him and get herself together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually his choice just revealed what was already there....

It was going to surface in one way or another... wasn't going to matter what it was, but now that it has surfaced he can face it and work on what life has presented him. 

OP, I would focus on the job and your child and ask your wife to get professional psychiatric help. Your home life needs to be as calm as possible for your child.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Blossom Leigh said:


> Agreed, there is a lot of work to be done here which is why I really liked Turnera's post... she nailed all of it in a few sentences



Yeah, turnera writes great posts. And I think this is a great opportunity to point out that contrary to popular belief "the sisterhood" does not in fact always agree with each other.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

OP, did you look for the books I suggested?


----------



## jb02157

You aren't being a jerk at all. In fact I think your wife is alot like my wife. We had to move across country to because my wife got me fired at my job. When I finally found another job, it was far away in a very expensive area. She, like your wife, wanted only the most expensive house and wanted to quit working. 

Let me stop here. When I hear about wives that want to quit work it really hacks me off. Sure I've love to quit work to and live off of someone else but I'll never be able to do this. Why this is even thought of as ok is beyond me. Shouldn't both parents be expected to contribute financially? Yeah I know there's raising kids, but isn't that what day care is for??

Anyway... her leaving and making you find houses to met HER expectations in addition to your new job responsibilities was quite unacceptable. She also seems to have developed substance abuse problems. She needs to wake the hell up and start being a role model to her daughter and start contributing to the family. Embarassing you in frount of other families is also quite unacceptable.

I think that she falls in the category of those women who know as SAHM's they will make out huge in a divorce, so they know they can act like a *****, get you to divorce her and have someone pay for her life forever. 

Modern day marriage...isn't it just peachy!!


----------



## LaundryMan

I didn't think I'd get this many comments in a night.

I can see everyone's point here, which is why I started this thread in the first place. This IS my fault because I moved the family to a place they didn't want to go, thinking mainly about myself. BUT, my wife was encouraging me to find jobs like this for the reason someone else pointed out, so that I could make the money and she could give up working and focus on writing and music and raising food. The only thing that didn't work out according to her plan is that we ended up in an expensive place, which led to the big fiasco in finding a house. That's why I had to promise her that I wouldn't force her to get a job, and that got her on board. If I'd landed the same job in Kansas, there would have been little to no conflict.

As for the lack of sex...that's been a long-term problem for us. I've never been high-drive, and when I wasn't taking this medication I had marginally higher drive but my wife found my depressed mood and anxiety completely intolerable. Since moving here my sex drive has gone from very low to zero. But I don't think that's the root of her behavior because I wasn't giving her very much to begin with, and she wasn't acting like this when we lived back in our old state (where she held down a job, had responsible friends, and was an active mom). I agree I need to work on this, and I'm not treating her fairly, but I don't think that explains her actions.

As an (unrelated) aside: I really resent the attitude I've seen a lot on this board, that men need sex constantly and as long as they're getting laid they'll put up with anything. I find that very small-minded. We could be doing it three times a day and I would still be hurt and angered by the way she's been treating me. Even if I wanted it three times a day. Not all straight men are the same. Speak for yourselves, guys.

About me being a "beta" male: you're right. I could be more assertive. But I'm never going to be Eddie Murphy's drunk father: "this is my house, and if you don't like it you can get the **** out!". That's not who I am, so anyone who thinks this can be solved by just telling me to "man up" isn't going to get very far. That said, I do think it's time to draw a line. Last night I got a list of MC's and I'm calling one today. Then I'm telling my wife "this is when our appointment is. If you want to come, great". I'm going to try to schedule it during her playground time, if possible.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

Haven't read all replies, but you don't think there's a chance she's having sex with this teenager, do you?

ETA: Also, is the teenager a minor or is he at least 18? Do you know? Sorry if this has already been answered.

One more thing.....your wife hasn't had any kind of head injury or concussion in the last few years, has she?


----------



## Blossom Leigh

*This IS my fault because I moved the family to a place they didn't want to go, thinking mainly about myself. BUT, my wife was encouraging me to find jobs like this for the reason someone else pointed out, so that I could make the money and she could give up working and focus on writing and music and raising food.

*Then how is it your fault when you were giving her what she wanted. How were you thinking mainly about yourself?


----------



## Pluto2

OP, you are open to assuming responsibility for the problems in the marriage, and IMHO, too open. Yes, the move was stressful, yes you work too hard, yes lack of intimacy is stressful. You have been forthright in identifying the stressors in the relationship.
Did you cause her to neglect your child and pick up a teen? NO.
I have no idea if she's sleeping with him. If he's really psycho, and if they're smoking pot, then probably not. If they're together drinking to excess-well maybe. And that is all on her. You can't control the choices she makes in her life.

She has a problem and is acting inappropriately.
You have a problem and are seeking constructive help. Hopefully she will see what she's been really doing and is willing to work together.


----------



## LaundryMan

SecondTime'Round said:


> Haven't read all replies, but you don't think there's a chance she's having sex with this teenager, do you?
> 
> ETA: Also, is the teenager a minor or is he at least 18? Do you know? Sorry if this has already been answered.
> 
> One more thing.....your wife hasn't had any kind of head injury or concussion in the last few years, has she?


Most of this has been answered, but...No, there's no chance they're sleeping together (at least, I would be VERY, VERY surprised)...he's 18 or 19 afaik, and no, she's never had a head injury.

To me the fact that she hangs out with this particular guy isn't the big deal. The big deal is that she values his feelings above mine and her kid's. She could be hanging around with her sister all day and I would feel the same way.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Lila said:


> LOL, I would love to take credit for Lifestooshort's assessments on this thread but unfortunately, I don't quite have her talent for written expression. That wasn't me posting.



Ha ha Lila, you flatter me 

I don't know if I have writing talents or just a big mouth.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LaundryMan

Blossom Leigh said:


> [/B]Then how is it your fault when you were giving her what she wanted. How were you thinking mainly about yourself?


This is a hard question to answer in a short post, but to leave out many details: My line of work requires many years of training and low-paid internship-type jobs after getting an advanced degree. All of that started before I met her, so the process was already in motion. Taking this job was part of my whole end goal I'd had for years, so in that way, I was thinking of myself when I took this job and moved to the next stage. My wife had never planned her future like I had. So when she realized this would be the next stage she decided "well, that means he can earn the money and I can quit this lousy job and take care of the home." 

I guess I'm trying to say I was thinking mostly about myself because I had my idea first.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LaundryMan said:


> *About me being a "beta" male: you're right. I could be more assertive.* But I'm never going to be Eddie Murphy's drunk father: "this is my house, and if you don't like it you can get the **** out!". That's not who I am, so anyone who thinks this can be solved by just telling me to "man up" isn't going to get very far. That said, I do think it's time to draw a line. Last night I got a list of MC's and I'm calling one today. * Then I'm telling my wife "this is when our appointment is. If you want to come, great". *I'm going to try to schedule it during her playground time, if possible.


So in the same paragraph, you acknowledge that you are beta and need to draw a line, then make a suggestion that is 100% beta. Schedule the appointment then tell her when it is, and that she is to be there. Period. This is not an option you are offering. Your wife has lost her mind, her respect for you, and her direction. She needs YOU to step in and help her with this. If she refuses, then you seriously need to look into ending things with her. For the sake of all three of you. Because you cannot force help on someone who is not willing to take it.


----------



## happy as a clam

LaundryMan said:


> This IS my fault because I moved the family to a place they didn't want to go, thinking mainly about myself.


Sorry, but this is nothing more than codependency speaking. This is not YOUR fault, but the fact that you blame yourself really demonstrates how deep your codependency is.



LaundryMan said:


> BUT, my wife was encouraging me to find jobs like this for the reason someone else pointed out, *so that I could make the money and she could give up working and focus on writing and music and raising food.*


This is the real reason you moved.



LaundryMan said:


> *The only thing that didn't work out according to her plan* is that we ended up in an expensive place, which led to the big fiasco in finding a house.


Ummm... no. The only thing that didn't work out according to the plan is]your wife flipped her lid!!!! There is simply no explanation for her mental breakdown that has resulted in her going from being a responsible P.T.A. mom to hanging out in parks with schizophrenic teenagers.



LaundryMan said:


> As an (unrelated) aside: *I really resent* the attitude I've seen a lot on this board...
> 
> ...That's not who I am, so anyone who thinks this can be solved by just telling me to "man up" isn't going to get very far.


Ok, you can resent our attitudes all you want, but you asked, we responded. We're only trying to help.


----------



## LaundryMan

3Xnocharm said:


> So in the same paragraph, you acknowledge that you are beta and need to draw a line, then make a suggestion that is 100% beta. Schedule the appointment then tell her when it is, and that she is to be there. Period. This is not an option you are offering. Your wife has lost her mind, her respect for you, and her direction. She needs YOU to step in and help her with this. If she refuses, then you seriously need to look into ending things with her. For the sake of all three of you. Because you cannot force help on someone who is not willing to take it.


Sorry, I don't see how that's beta. I made the executive decision (which she refused to do), decided for her when it's going to be, and now it's all on her. I can't do any more than that. Like you said, you can't force help on someone who won't take it.


----------



## LaundryMan

happy as a clam said:


> Ok, you can resent our attitudes all you want, but you asked, we responded. We're only trying to help.


I wasn't responding to anything you or anyone said in this thread, it was just something that crossed my mind. I do appreciate all the feedback I've been getting, even the stuff that's critical of me.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

LaundryMan said:


> This is a hard question to answer in a short post, but to leave out many details: My line of work requires many years of training and low-paid internship-type jobs after getting an advanced degree. All of that started before I met her, so the process was already in motion. Taking this job was part of my whole end goal I'd had for years, so in that way, I was thinking of myself when I took this job and moved to the next stage. My wife had never planned her future like I had. So when she realized this would be the next stage she decided "well, that means he can earn the money and I can quit this lousy job and take care of the home."
> 
> I guess I'm trying to say I was thinking mostly about myself because I had my idea first.


That does not make you at fault for her behavior at all. Do not apologize for who you are. Accurately assess and work on your side of the street, but do not pick up what is hers to do.


----------



## chillymorn

wake up buddy shes drinking in the park with young men!

when I was a young man drinking in the park with women we usually had sex. frequently.

Just sayin.......

one last time then I'm out of here.

this woman is not mentaly stable and your letting her crap on you and her daughter that you have been the only father she has had.

show this daughter that you really care and love her and do the right thing. pull her aside and say listen moms just having some really big problems I can't make her fix herself I am going to divorce her but want you to know I love and care for you and if you want you can stay with me forever. give her a big hug and say life is an adventure sometimes its smooth sailing sometimes its a bumpy pothole filled road that seems to last forever be we can and will get through this with love and support and courage to live the life that we want and deserve.

the go see a lawyer. go dark on her and let her self implode when she brakes the law call the cops if she hits you call the cops. get you neighbors to sign an afidavid about what happened at their house party.

that's how I would handle it.



best of luck.........god speed.


----------



## Iver

There's lots of things going on here but the first issue that needs to be addressed is your wife's bizarre behavior. 

She's getting wasted with lowlifes in a park everyday? She needs to understand that ends or her marriage ends. Before taking this step I'd have a P.I. check on her for a couple of days. 

Actually you should do this now regardless of what actions you decide to take. If she's using drugs or getting involved with some meth head (don't say she wouldn't - you have no idea what she's up to) you need to know this in order to get full custody of your daughter if you divorce.

Your wife really needs to see a doctor for a full physical and a mental health screening. Also getting her drug tested would be a prudent move on your part; you should be able to do it in conjunction with her blood work.

My concern at this point is the safety of your daughter. Your wife's actions have the potential to be very harmful to her.


----------



## jb02157

LaundryMan said:


> This is a hard question to answer in a short post, but to leave out many details: My line of work requires many years of training and low-paid internship-type jobs after getting an advanced degree. All of that started before I met her, so the process was already in motion. Taking this job was part of my whole end goal I'd had for years, so in that way, I was thinking of myself when I took this job and moved to the next stage. My wife had never planned her future like I had. So when she realized this would be the next stage she decided "well, that means he can earn the money and I can quit this lousy job and take care of the home."
> 
> I guess I'm trying to say I was thinking mostly about myself because I had my idea first.


Wrong, you weren't thinking of yourself, you were trying to provide for your family and give them nice things. That's ok you know.


----------



## turnera

It's ok to schedule the appointment and tell her when it is and that you want her to come. Because you can't force her to do anything and only a beta male would try to force her to do anything.

The alpha/beta stuff comes in when she refuses to go. What do you do next? Alpha means having a level, a bar, a standard, lower than which you refuse to accept in your life. And if what she adds to your life stays below that level, the alpha male then informs her that it's unacceptable and that if it continues, you will move on, without her. And, of course, then DOING it.


----------



## syhoybenden

I still think she's banging the kid.


----------



## LaundryMan

I have an update to this story but I can't post it right now, I'll do it later today. But to correct some of the suspicions some posters have had, she isn't coming home drunk (anymore, it's only been a couple of weeks though), I doubt she's getting high (she's never liked pot and I don't smell it on her, though the people she hangs out with smoke a lot), and I'm almost certain she hasn't touched this kid in any sexual way. That doesn't mean her behavior isn't reckless and irresponsible. But I want to get the illegal/highly dangerous stuff off the table now and focus on the real issue...she's behaving like a child, ignoring us, and setting a horrible example for our kid.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

Accuracy is critical.


----------



## LaundryMan

Ok, an update, some of it good and some of it bad.

*Good:* I got us a MC appt for next weekend. Also, she made an agreement with the office where she used to work (in our old state) to do some clerical work at home, online, part-time. This will bring in a little money, but what's really important is that it puts a little more structure into her day so that she'll be less tempted (I hope) to spend all her time with low-lifes. She'd been considering this for a while but now it's official.

Unfortunately, she says she's doing this mostly so that she'll have some money of her own so she can leave "if she needs to." She says she might buy a van/truck and do this online office work from the road, driving around with our daughter and homeschooling her. This is such a stupid idea I didn't even bother to argue with her. She tried homeschooling the kid last year and had to give it up because she has zero patience, and she expects to be able to do this while driving around the country? And that our kid would agree to it?

Only later did I realize that I should have encouraged her, because then she _could actually say_ "I'm 37 years old, I'm thrice divorced, and I live in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!"

*Bad:* I found out secondhand that she's been saying nasty things about me on Twitter. I didn't make a big deal about it, I just mentioned it to her that my parents had been snooping on her Twitter and how I wished they wouldn't do that. She seemed to panic. "What did they tell you?" She also told me that she thinks I only signed up for MC because I think the counselor will agree with me. (Isn't this what a lawyer would call "bad faith", or is that something else?)

Another problem I didn't mention in my OP is that she has an explosive temper. She's always had a short fuse but it's gotten much worse since we lived here. She's told our daughter to go **** herself on two occasions in the last year. I bring this up because she blew up on us last night and refused to apologize. She bumped her head in the kitchen and screamed. Daughter said "what's wrong?" Wife's reply: "Nothing! I just bumped my head! Why do you have to talk to me like that, you snotty little ****! Don't be such a brat!" I asked calmly "is that something to yell about?"--maybe a condescending choice of words, but I wanted to show some restraint because I think she doesn't always notice when she speaks that way. She said "You too! **** both of you! I'm leaving! You can cook your own ****ing dinner!" There was some back and forth screaming between her and the girl (this is their normal mode of communication), and then she stormed out and slammed the door. She came back about an hour later but was still angry. Daughter was so disturbed by this (all she did was ask her mom what happened) that she couldn't eat dinner and I had to practically force her to have some bread before she went to bed. My wife later said she shouldn't have yelled at us but daughter "just talks so snotty to me."

I felt a bit better yesterday and did some thinking, and increasingly I think the people who say I'm too passive may be right and it's time to lay down the law. I HATE doing that because I was raised to believe that telling women what to do is exploitative and arrogant. I guess the end result will be she'll either shape up or buy her stupid van and drive off. I'm at the point where I'll take either just to not be treated like this.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Just because you might need a little humor... 












Dude. She is straight out abusive.
I would suggest starting to carry a VAR on you. I get the sense that she could turn on you.

She reminds me a lot of the troubled teens I used to work with.


----------



## LaundryMan

Nice to see I'm not yet so old that nobody else gets that reference.



SamuraiJack said:


> I would suggest starting to carry a VAR on you. I get the sense that she could turn on you.


This actually crossed my mind, but I won't do it. To me, privacy is a near-absolute right and I won't disrespect her in that way. She does have a nasty habit of cherry picking my words and rewriting the history of her own actions, but I think other people see through it, at least those who are around her a lot (maybe not so much on Twitter).


----------



## lenzi

LaundryMan said:


> This actually crossed my mind, but I won't do it. To me, privacy is a near-absolute right and I won't disrespect her in that way.


You're acting like some poor guy who gets drafted into the army and walks up to the front lines without a gun in his hand because he doesn't believe in violence.


----------



## tom67

LaundryMan said:


> Nice to see I'm not yet so old that nobody else gets that reference.
> 
> 
> 
> This actually crossed my mind, but I won't do it. To me, privacy is a near-absolute right and I won't disrespect her in that way. She does have a nasty habit of cherry picking my words and rewriting the history of her own actions, but I think other people see through it, at least those who are around her a lot (maybe not so much on Twitter).


LM no this is to protect you from a false DV charge if she calls the police on you.
If that happens you can't protect your kid.
Please think about it.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LaundryMan said:


> Nice to see I'm not yet so old that nobody else gets that reference.
> 
> 
> 
> This actually crossed my mind, but I won't do it. To me, privacy is a near-absolute right and I won't disrespect her in that way. She does have a nasty habit of cherry picking my words and rewriting the history of her own actions, but I think other people see through it, at least those who are around her a lot (maybe not so much on Twitter).


You're being passive again. This is about protecting yourself, doesnt have a damn thing to do with her privacy. She pretty much gave up her right to privacy when she went psychotic. 

After reading your post about the way she treats your daughter, I suggest you divorce this woman. She has so many issues that just saying she has issues doesnt cover it. You need to protect your daughter. No child deserves this.


----------



## SamuraiJack

LaundryMan said:


> Nice to see I'm not yet so old that nobody else gets that reference.
> 
> 
> 
> This actually crossed my mind, but I won't do it. To me, privacy is a near-absolute right and I won't disrespect her in that way. She does have a nasty habit of cherry picking my words and rewriting the history of her own actions, but I think other people see through it, at least those who are around her a lot (maybe not so much on Twitter).


In case you havent read it yet...because the writing is on the wall...she is going to go down the tubes very soon and I don think she cares if you go with her. She is showing signs of delusional thinking. 
Homeschooling in a van? Really?

Cut off your liabilies from her and protect you and your daughter.




> but I think other people see through it, at least those who are around her a lot (maybe not so much on Twitter)


You mean like the people she is hanging around with in the park?
Yeah Im sure they think she is full of it and you are a stand up guy.

You need to wake up.


----------



## lenzi

SamuraiJack said:


> You need to wake up.


The poor fellow is in deep denial.

He knows something is very long and yet he's helpless to do anything about it.

At least.. at the moment. 

He'll figure it out but it's going to take some time. It's rather frustrating to watch this go down.



3Xnocharm said:


> After reading your post about the way she treats your daughter, I suggest you divorce this woman. .. You need to protect your daughter. No child deserves this.


It's not his daughter

Ironically enough the best way to protect the daughter is to stay with her.


----------



## SamuraiJack

ROCK=====> LaundryMan <======Hard Place


----------



## tom67

lenzi said:


> The poor fellow is in deep denial.
> 
> He knows something is very long and yet he's helpless to do anything about it.
> 
> At least.. at the moment.
> 
> He'll figure it out but it's going to take some time. It's rather frustrating to watch this go down.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not his daughter
> 
> Ironically enough the best way to protect the daughter is to stay with her.


Good pick up Lenzi forgot about that.
God that daughter is going to be with that crazy woman
Ugh learned behavior here we come.


----------



## SamuraiJack

I guess the thing to do would be to suggest that he take care of the child and buy her a van...

"Here Dear...go find yourself."


----------



## snerg

LaundryMan said:


> Ok, an update, some of it good and some of it bad.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, she says she's doing this mostly so that she'll have some money of her own so she can leave "if she needs to." She says she might buy a van/truck and do this online office work from the road, driving around with our daughter and homeschooling her.


Holy crap dood.
If this statement is for real, this is serious.
She's letting you know she is prepping to uproot and run as well as take your kid.

This needs special attention, even if you think she is joking, you need to think about this.




LaundryMan said:


> *Bad:* I found out secondhand that she's been saying nasty things about me on Twitter. I didn't make a big deal about it, I just mentioned it to her that my parents had been snooping on her Twitter and how I wished they wouldn't do that. She seemed to panic. "What did they tell you?"


You need to shut this garbage down right now
She's being abusive.




LaundryMan said:


> Another problem I didn't mention in my OP is that she has an explosive temper. She's always had a short fuse but it's gotten much worse since we lived here. She's told our daughter to go **** herself on two occasions in the last year. I bring this up because she blew up on us last night and refused to apologize. She bumped her head in the kitchen and screamed. Daughter said "what's wrong?" Wife's reply: "Nothing! I just bumped my head! Why do you have to talk to me like that, you snotty little ****! Don't be such a brat!" I asked calmly "is that something to yell about?"--maybe a condescending choice of words, but I wanted to show some restraint because I think she doesn't always notice when she speaks that way. She said "You too! **** both of you! I'm leaving! You can cook your own ****ing dinner!" There was some back and forth screaming between her and the girl (this is their normal mode of communication), and then she stormed out and slammed the door. She came back about an hour later but was still angry. Daughter was so disturbed by this (all she did was ask her mom what happened) that she couldn't eat dinner and I had to practically force her to have some bread before she went to bed. My wife later said she shouldn't have yelled at us but daughter "just talks so snotty to me."


She has *MAJOR* anger and control issues.
She needs to get into IC *YESTERDAY*!

The fact that she is so angry she verbally attacks/assaults your daughter, that's just bad hoodoo right there. Your kid doesn't deserve any of her wrath. Her treatment of you is deplorable - her treatment of the daughter - I'd almost say she needs to be tasting the back of a hand. That's just terrible


----------



## lifeistooshort

snerg said:


> Holy crap dood.
> If this statement is for real, this is serious.
> She's letting you know she is prepping to uproot and run as well as take your kid.
> 
> This needs special attention, even if you think she is joking, you need to think about this.
> 
> 
> 
> You need to shut this garbage down right now
> She's being abusive.
> 
> 
> 
> She has *MAJOR* anger and control issues.
> She needs to get into IC *YESTERDAY*!
> 
> The fact that she is so angry she verbally attacks/assaults your daughter, that's just bad hoodoo right there. Your kid doesn't deserve any of her wrath. Her treatment of you is deplorable - her treatment of the daughter - I'd almost say she needs to be tasting the back of a hand. That's just terrible



Read carefully, she's not his daughter. This changes the situation a little in that his rights where the daughter is concerned are limited.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pluto2

Its not completely hopeless concerning the daughter. States are more and more willing to acknowledge a step-parent's rights, or at a minimum involvement. It is not uncommon for a step-parent to be granted formal visitation rights, and where warranted-custody. Of course it varies from state to state, but courts will look at the best interest of the child, and here, now at least, OP would have a reasonable argument.
But lets hope it doesn't get that far.


----------



## LaundryMan

lifeistooshort said:


> Read carefully, she's not his daughter. This changes the situation a little in that his rights where the daughter is concerned are limited.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. I never adopted her so if we split, she goes with her mom and I can't do anything. I'd never see her again but more importantly she'd have to live with this for the next seven years. 

The one glimmer of hope is that my wife would be likely to move back in with her parents if we split up. They're good, responsible people who have a positive influence on her, and the kid loves them. The homeschool-van scenario frightens me but if it really happened it would last about a week. My wife gets ideas like this all the time, then abandons them when reality sets in. Plus, her ex (who DOES have legal clout with her) would never stand for it.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Pluto2 said:


> Its not completely hopeless concerning the daughter. States are more and more willing to acknowledge a step-parent's rights, or at a minimum involvement. It is not uncommon for a step-parent to be granted formal visitation rights, and where warranted-custody. Of course it varies from state to state, but courts will look at the best interest of the child, and here, now at least, OP would have a reasonable argument.
> But lets hope it doesn't get that far.



Doubtful. The girl has a father and unless he's completely unfit or won't take her and her mother is completely unfit, which according to OP's clarifications she's not, he has no rights where her daughter is concerned. If she was a little older she might even get some say but 11 is still young. Even then you'd have to get a court to overrule her biological parents, which is pretty tough to do for a step-parent. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lucy999

LaundryMan said:


> She's told our daughter to go **** herself on two occasions in the last year.


ummm *WHAT????????*

She's wack. I'm sorry, but she is.

You should have her tested for drugs.


----------



## Blossom Leigh

That makes me sick!


----------



## 3Xnocharm

LaundryMan said:


> Exactly. I never adopted her so if we split, she goes with her mom and I can't do anything. I'd never see her again but more importantly she'd have to live with this for the next seven years.
> 
> The one glimmer of hope is that my wife would be likely to move back in with her parents if we split up. They're good, responsible people who have a positive influence on her, and the kid loves them. The homeschool-van scenario frightens me but if it really happened it would last about a week. My wife gets ideas like this all the time, then abandons them when reality sets in. Plus, her ex (who DOES have legal clout with her) would never stand for it.


If you decide to split, you need to put up a fight for the daughter. Her mom is in no way, shape or form a fit mother at this point! How old is the daughter?


----------



## LaundryMan

Wife and I have been emailing back and forth today. I'll give a passage from her email regarding her angry outburst last night, because I think it illustrates her thought process nicely (edited for privacy/language):

_And maybe I did fly off the handle last night. I was in pain, and [daughter] spoke to me in that snotty tone that I'm so ****ing tired of. You may not have been paying attention, but she was really snotty. And when I told her not to worry about it, she was a complete snotrag about it, and then, guess what? You ****ing stood up for her. And you wonder why I don't feel comfortable in my own house. It's because you're insulting and hostile towards me. This house is not a friendly place for me right now._

My reply was "Why yes, I did stand up for her. I tend to do that when people scream obscenities at my kid."

Look at the flow of logic here: Yes, I did something bad...but it wasn't really bad because of all these other circumstances that matter somehow...you don't agree...you're a monster...I'm the real victim.

Thank you to everyone who has given advice in this thread. If anyone wants to post more, I'd like to hear your comments, but I'm not going to post any more in this thread. I think all this has given me a pretty clear view that I have to take care of this whole situation right now, not just with MC but by making it clear I won't be pushed any farther.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

LM, this 11 year old is in danger . No matter WHAT your relationship has been with her bio dad in the past (I haven't read every post, so I don't know if you've said), I think you absolutely need to NOW clue him into this site, this thread, and have him read here, because HE needs to rescue his daughter. You don't have legal recourse to do that, it seems. She may not be in imminent danger of DEATH, but she is in such danger!!!!  I'm so sad for her, as a mom of kids just a bit older than her .


----------



## lifeistooshort

You shouldn't be backing her daughter right in front of her, you've sent the message that you and your wife aren't a team. Cmon, that's parenting 101. Diffuse the situation and discuss it with your wife later. Now her daughter knows she can be snotty and you'll back her up. I have an 11 year old myself and this is how they are. 

I really don't get all the hysteria here, how exactly is daughter in danger? Geez, more and more I can see why wife is unhappy. She made a move she didn't want to make with a husband that doesn't have sex with her and doesn't spend much time with her and is worried about himself and his career. Now he doesn't even back her up when her daughter cops a snotty attitude. Yes she is handling this poorly but all the hysteria is unwarranted.

I've said my piece and am now out. Op, best of luck, I really hope you guys find some sort of resolution to this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aine

LaundryMan said:


> Ok, an update, some of it good and some of it bad.
> 
> *Good:* I got us a MC appt for next weekend. Also, she made an agreement with the office where she used to work (in our old state) to do some clerical work at home, online, part-time. This will bring in a little money, but what's really important is that it puts a little more structure into her day so that she'll be less tempted (I hope) to spend all her time with low-lifes. She'd been considering this for a while but now it's official.
> 
> Unfortunately, she says she's doing this mostly so that she'll have some money of her own so she can leave "if she needs to." She says she might buy a van/truck and do this online office work from the road, driving around with our daughter and homeschooling her. This is such a stupid idea I didn't even bother to argue with her. She tried homeschooling the kid last year and had to give it up because she has zero patience, and she expects to be able to do this while driving around the country? And that our kid would agree to it?
> 
> Only later did I realize that I should have encouraged her, because then she _could actually say_ "I'm 37 years old, I'm thrice divorced, and I live in a VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!"
> 
> *Bad:* I found out secondhand that she's been saying nasty things about me on Twitter. I didn't make a big deal about it, I just mentioned it to her that my parents had been snooping on her Twitter and how I wished they wouldn't do that. She seemed to panic. "What did they tell you?" She also told me that she thinks I only signed up for MC because I think the counselor will agree with me. (Isn't this what a lawyer would call "bad faith", or is that something else?)
> 
> Another problem I didn't mention in my OP is that she has an explosive temper. She's always had a short fuse but it's gotten much worse since we lived here. She's told our daughter to go **** herself on two occasions in the last year. I bring this up because she blew up on us last night and refused to apologize. She bumped her head in the kitchen and screamed. Daughter said "what's wrong?" Wife's reply: "Nothing! I just bumped my head! Why do you have to talk to me like that, you snotty little ****! Don't be such a brat!" I asked calmly "is that something to yell about?"--maybe a condescending choice of words, but I wanted to show some restraint because I think she doesn't always notice when she speaks that way. She said "You too! **** both of you! I'm leaving! You can cook your own ****ing dinner!" There was some back and forth screaming between her and the girl (this is their normal mode of communication), and then she stormed out and slammed the door. She came back about an hour later but was still angry. Daughter was so disturbed by this (all she did was ask her mom what happened) that she couldn't eat dinner and I had to practically force her to have some bread before she went to bed. My wife later said she shouldn't have yelled at us but daughter "just talks so snotty to me."
> 
> I felt a bit better yesterday and did some thinking, and increasingly I think the people who say I'm too passive may be right and it's time to lay down the law. I HATE doing that because I was raised to believe that telling women what to do is exploitative and arrogant. I guess the end result will be she'll either shape up or buy her stupid van and drive off. I'm at the point where I'll take either just to not be treated like this.


You need to tell her that that i absolutely no way to speak at home and particularly to a child. Your wife needs someone to stand up to her, this is not right!


----------



## MachoMcCoy

I'd be REALLY surprised if she's not screwing this kid.


----------



## ThirtySixThousandAndTwo

This doesn't read as a diary of a healthy marriage.
I tend to agree with lifeistooshort in general.
What are the reasons for staying married?
Good Sex? Raising your own family? Friendship and companionship?
Financial Security?
Seems to be scoring a zero here. If you are "rational and cold" as you describe yourself, whats the cost/benefit minimax optimal solution?


----------



## Natthewife

Honestly you sound like a good man and u and your daughter deserve better. This relationship she has with a teen is unhealthy and irresponsible. I wonder how his mother feels him hanging around a grown married woman. Your wife obviously feels she's missed out on her teen years and is trying to rein act them. This will not be over anytime soon so if your staying with her be prepared for a long haul. Intervention will cause her to act as a teen does. The more anyone tells her she can't, the more she will. Good luck!


----------

