# Didn't see this coming !



## perilsoftheinternet

Well I didn't expect this... let me set the background

Been together 14 years, married 10 years, 3 beautiful kids.

Two nights ago I needed to find a document that I knew was in my wife's email but got more than I bargained for (this must be such a common starting statement )

I'll try and keep things brief. My wife got heavily into photography at the start of 2012 and joined a photo sharing website. As it turns out she "met" someone through this site and as far as I can tell have been emailing, speaking to each other for about 4 months. My wife hasn't worked since we had children so she has plenty of time at home for this. I think he lives in a seperate country although I'm not sure. It would explain the larger phone bills which she explained as the children using too much internet on her phone !

It makes sense now, her staying up late so frequently, being aggressive when I complain about her being on her laptop and the photo sharing website so much. I'd say she is drinking more as well

Since I found the email two nights ago I've read lots of emails, I can't believe she was stupid enough to leave them in her inbox !
In many of them she declares her love for him, no mention of me in any of them although he does know she's married with kids.

Has she met him : yes, once. About a month ago she told me she was going to see her brother for the day, I didn't think it unusual. Anyhow she met him for the day and as far as I can tell walked in the park, held hands and kissed. I have a feeling he was briefly here on business.

It seems to me like it was some sort of escapism for my wife, something aside from normal reality.

3 weeks ago was our 10th wedding anniversay, the day before she spoke to him on the phone and posted a romantic picture on the photo sharing website with a quote something like, "for the one I love"
She even emailed him on the day of our anniversay when we'd got rid of the children and were about to go out for dinner.
Now I wish I hadn't booked our anniversary treat for the end of January, a long weekend in Venice !

Anyhow, in the last week the emails have become more of a reality in that they can never be together ( I guess because of distance ) and that they will remain just friends. He said he will phone her in January.

So my minds a mess... as is common I guess I'm worried about the consequences of confrontation, I'm wondering what I did wrong

In honesty we've not been getting on great for a while, maybe now I know the reason. I havn't confronted her yet or told anyone.

One side of me thinks if their relationship as such is over maybe with time I can forgive her but right now I'm hurting bad.. the trouble is I know going forward everytime I see her on the laptop I'll have doubts (even though I have access to all her email accounts)..whats a marriage without trust ? 

As a side point the next 3-6 months at work are going to be extremely busy and probably stressful so this is the last thing I need.

I guess deep down I know the following:


I can't wait and see what happens, I have to confront her and tell her that I know 
I love her and want to find a way out of this mess if possible
Counselling might be the way to go
What a nightmare, Happy New Year !

Any thoughts appreciated


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## Plan 9 from OS

I know one thing, if you don't confront her with what you know then the likelihood of your wife connecting with someone else will be high. Maybe next time she connects with someone who's much closer to home. Not good. 

Get it in the open now so you can figure out why she is seeking out other men.


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## Mario Kempes

Make sure to save or print off all of the emails before she has a chance to delete them.


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## Mario Kempes

Unfortunately, you will never trust her fully again. I know............ 

To help you move forward, she has to be completely open and transparent with you about what's happened to date and about all future emails, texts, etc. You'll get good advice here about how to monitor her moves etc. also if you want to go down that road.

Are you sure that they only walked and held hands and kissed?


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## Dollystanford

I hate to say this but if she's been emotionally connected to someone for 4 months and he turns up 'on business' do you really think they just held hands and had a walk in the park? Particularly if they've declared love for one another?

Distance makes it more likely that the relationship will be physical when they do meet up. 

Make sure you keep the evidence - when you do confront her (and yes you must) you'll need it. She's clearly got no issue with lying to you. Hope you can work it out but you can't just leave it


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## Toffer

Dollystanford said:


> I hate to say this but if she's been emotionally connected to someone for 4 months and he turns up 'on business' do you really think they just held hands and had a walk in the park? Particularly if they've declared love for one another?
> 
> Distance makes it more likely that the relationship will be physical when they do meet up.
> 
> Make sure you keep the evidence - when you do confront her (and yes you must) you'll need it. She's clearly got no issue with lying to you. Hope you can work it out but you can't just leave it


:iagree:

I am also finding it hard to believe that after 4 months of escalating sexual tension, all they did was kiss. 

If after you confront your wife she agrees that she wants to fix thigs and stay with you, I'd ask for a polygraph.


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## fishfast41

Dont make the same mistake I did..I lost my cool upon discovery of cheating, and my wife deleted lots of the evidence of what she was up to. Stay calm and dont let on that you know. See if you can log on to her account on the photo share site. Get detailed phone records. Make copies of emails. Check credit statements. Once you are sure you have found out all you can without her knowing she is busted, then confront her with it. Good luck..I'm sorry to see you here, and I feel your pain. Dont forget God has your back.


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## perilsoftheinternet

Thanks for the replies

My thinking on the physical aspects of their meeting are based on an email sent afterwards which said something along the lines of "even though we havn't done anything wrong physically, I feel so guilty"

Whats to say what could happen if they did get the opportunity to meet again... 

I will get a copy of all the emails, or as many as I can, there are alot, although I'm sure my wife won't deny it when I do confront her. He has sent her 3 today so far but they are still unread !

thanks


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## bfree

Toffer said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I am also finding it hard to believe that after 4 months of escalating sexual tension, all they did was kiss.
> 
> If after you confront your wife she agrees that she wants to fix thigs and stay with you, I'd ask for a polygraph.


Print out the conversations, download and print out and fill out divorce paperwork. Hand it to her and ask her how she wants to divide the assets of your marriage. You need to come out guns blazing if you want to shock her out of this little fantasy of hers. And you need to show her you are a strong man and are ready to move on without her. She has to realize that she is on the verge of losing everything. If she reacts like she wants to save the marriage then you tell her she needs to write out everything that happened on her visit with him. Tell her it will all be confirmed with a polygraph so she'd better tell the truth and not leave anything out. Tell her she needs to get tested for STD's asap. If you have children tell her you are going to DNA test them to make sure they are actually yours. These are so that she will take this situation seriously and realize that her word is crap right now. If she reacts by telling you she's unhappy and wants a divorce then tell her she is going to get her wish and walk away.


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## walkonmars

Perils, 
Hello, It's not the way you thought 2012 would end right? Sorry your marriage is in this situation, but you've come to the right place for help. 

Can you answer these questions? It will help posters get a better idea of how to help you.

You want to remain married no? 

Have you ever had reason to worry about your wife in the past? Is this your first marriage? Hers?

Have you been faithful during your marriage? 

Did she take up photography "out of the blue" or has she always had an artistic side? 

Children? Ages?

Your relatives live nearby? Hers?


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## fishfast41

Almost forgot...This really threw me..Dont let this throw you...She will blatantly lie.Even when you show her the proof..She will still lie. Then she will minimize. She will say "just friends". You will want to believe her. You will get real pissed. STAY CALM..DO NOT believe any of the lies. STAY CALM and DO NOT let on on how much you know.Ask for explanation of each piece of evidence ONE at a time. She will try to sidetrack the conversation.DO NOT let her do this..Stay on track and STAY CALM. She will accuse you of being crazy, controlling or delusional, or all three. In order to get any truth of her, you must control the conversation and once more, STAY CALM.


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## perilsoftheinternet

Hi again..

>>You want to remain married? Yes 

>> Have you ever had reason to worry about your wife in the past? No never any problems before now

>> First marriage ? Yes this is first marriage for both of us

>> Have you been faithful during your marriage? Yes completely

>> has she always had an artistic side? Yes she is very artistic and has liked photography for years, its just gone to another level this year

>> Children? Ages? Yes 3 children.. 8, 6, 3

>> relatives ? Yes both sets of parents are close , within an hour.


I feel slightly better already just getting some of this off my chest, even if it is only on an internet forum

Cheers


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## bfree

fishfast41 said:


> Almost forgot...This really threw me..Dont let this throw you...She will blatantly lie.Even when you show her the proof..She will still lie. Then she will minimize. She will say "just friends". You will want to believe her. You will get real pissed. STAY CALM..DO NOT believe any of the lies. STAY CALM and DO NOT let on on how much you know.Ask for explanation of each piece of evidence ONE at a time. She will try to sidetrack the conversation.DO NOT let her do this..Stay on track and STAY CALM. She will accuse you of being crazy, controlling or delusional, or all three. In order to get any truth of her, you must control the conversation and once more, STAY CALM.


You can be angry but not act angry. When you confront her the first question I would ask is "Who is XXX and what is your relationship with him?" She will lie and tell you that they are just friends. Then hand her a print out of one conversation that will prove they aren't just friends and ask her to explain. She will again lie and minimize. Then hand her another conversation printout and ask her to explain that one. After a few of these ask her how often she talks to him. Then when she lies about that show her a print out of the number of calls and texts they have shared. At some point she will probably say that maybe her friendship has gone too far but since he lives far away its not a problem. That's when you ask her to explain the day she met up with him in person. Basically you have to build the case in front of her so she can't wiggle out of it. Then hand her the divorce paperwork and ask her about the marital assets.


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## walkonmars

Find a time when the kids are away so that you have at leas one hour to have the confrontation. Prepare yourself mentally. Do not plead or beg. Be assertive - you are fighting for your marriage - so don't back down. 

She will try to change the conversation to an argument about your audacity at invading her privacy by snooping at her email. 

Don't fall for this. Tell her that only single people have a right to privacy. Married people share their lives. All aspects of their lives. 

You were trusting and honorable in allowing her to explore her hobbies, you encouraged her photography and what you got in return was disloyalty and disrespect. Disrespect for you, your marriage, and a threat to the whole family including the innocent children. 

Then proceed with what you expect. A letter of NO CONTACT to the other man (OM). The letter should tell him she acted irrationally and disrespected her family. She requests no future contact. Any further contact on his part will be seen as an act of harassment and reported appropriately. 

Find the OMs wife and contact her. Tell her what has happened and request that she ensure her husband not contact your wife. Offer proof. 

Follow the other posters recommendations. That is, be prepared to tell your wife that you will not live with a woman who does not value you and her marriage. She is free to pursue the OM if she wants but it will be as a single woman.


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## arbitrator

Sorry to see you here, Perils, but you've come to the right place here at TAM. We are all going through similar plights as you are, and are all at various recovery stages, so we're thrilled to help.

You might need to confront your wife with what evidence you are holding, then make a fast decision on doing the "180."

I'm sorry for what you are going through as you don't really deserve it. Best of luck, and God's speed!


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## Dollystanford

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I feel slightly better already just getting some of this off my chest, even if it is only on an internet forum


only an internet forum?

dude, understatement of the year


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## Amplexor

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I'm hurting bad.. the trouble is I know going forward everytime I see her on the laptop I'll have doubts (even though I have access to all her email accounts)..whats a marriage without trust ?


If you and your wife come out of this in one piece trust can return but will never be the same. I walked this path several years ago.

Take the advice given and collect and protect your evidence. You will need to confront her, it will emotional on both sides but be steady in your conversations. Do not let it escalate to unbridled anger. Be aware that some things are certain to happen

She will deny the relationship as anything other than a friendship.

She will declare her love for you or she will blame the relationship on your past actions.

She will emotionally draw closer to OM because of the fall out with you.

Be calm and cool during this period. Demand that the relationship end or that you are prepared to end the marriage. Follow the advice on TAM about a NC letter to make sure all parties involved understand the consequences of non-compliance. *Be ready to file if she refuses or breaks NC* Also be aware of the following if she complies with NC

She will be emotionally hurting from the loss of OM. In her mind her love is as real as it could be even if they embarked on a true courtship.

She will resent you for making her break it off. 

These two things will last for weeks or months. Accept it and roll with it. This will take time to settle down.

Begin MC to determine what factors in the marriage need to be addressed. You may both have issues that need to be discussed and improved.

Read my signature line and live by it. Those four words helped me deal with my wife's EA and we came through it with time. We are 5 years post D-Day. Good luck.


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## MattMatt

She is cheating on the children, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KanDo

Dear Perils,

I am so sorry you are here. You have been given excellent advice so far.

Please forward the emails fromyour wifes account to your own email or another place. You don't want to lose your evidence and that way you don't need to print out a ton of stuff or lose any of it. I learned so much from texts and emails that I recovered.

She will deny and try to rewrite history. Be prepared.


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## keko

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Thanks for the replies
> 
> My thinking on the physical aspects of their meeting are based on an email sent afterwards which said something along the lines of *"even though we havn't done anything wrong physically, I feel so guilty"*
> 
> Whats to say what could happen if they did get the opportunity to meet again...
> 
> I will get a copy of all the emails, or as many as I can, there are alot, although I'm sure my wife won't deny it when I do confront her. He has sent her 3 today so far but they are still unread !
> 
> thanks


Now why would she say that? 

Maybe she's suspecting you're either reading her emails? Wants to add some doubt to confuse you?


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## CleanJerkSnatch

bfree said:


> You can be angry but not act angry. When you confront her the first question I would ask is "Who is XXX and what is your relationship with him?" She will lie and tell you that they are just friends. Then hand her a print out of one conversation that will prove they aren't just friends and ask her to explain. She will again lie and minimize. Then hand her another conversation printout and ask her to explain that one. After a few of these ask her how often she talks to him. Then when she lies about that show her a print out of the number of calls and texts they have shared. At some point she will probably say that maybe her friendship has gone too far but since he lives far away its not a problem. That's when you ask her to explain the day she met up with him in person. Basically you have to build the case in front of her so she can't wiggle out of it. Then hand her the divorce paperwork and ask her about the marital assets.


This is what i would do. I would also get a keylogger and install it on the computer and find the pw to all her sites etc. On top of that if she uses a phone to call him then id setup a VAR as well and confront.

Most are surprised how fast a BS can gather evidence.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

To be able to win back your wife and make sure she stays faithful to you like a wife should...

You have to accept the risk that you could lose her in the process. Alot of people make the mistake of not being able to lose their spouse, so they bark and complain but in the end they tuck tail and run away like a big P.

If you can't lose your spouse no matter what, most of the times you're going to get screwed many times over before you finally see the light.

Cheaters won't change if they know they've got a big "P" who's going to cave into them because no matter what they do, you won't quit on them. It's called respecting yourself first and putting you first ahead of the marriage when it comes to infidelity. Because basically you really don't have a marriage anymore at that point. It's a one way street with you giving and the WS not giving 2 cents if you were alive or not.


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## Chaparral

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html


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## Machiavelli

keko said:


> Now why would she say that?


The plain and simple explanation is quite straightforward. She's saying that sex in the park, or the bj in the car, makes her feel guilty, even though it shouldn't, because _"how could something be wrong, when it feels so right." _


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## TRy

perilsoftheinternet said:


> My thinking on the physical aspects of their meeting are based on an email sent afterwards which said something along the lines of "even though we havn't done anything wrong physically, I feel so guilty


 Since you know that they kissed in the park, and since kissing another man (OM) is wrong, you know that they are applying cheaters logic as to what is wrong and right. Former President Clinton used such cheaters logic when he famously claimed that getting a BJ was not sex because it was not intercourse. What I am saying is that it is unlikely that two adults in love would have stopped at just a kiss. Maybe they did not have intercourse, but the odds are very likely that it was more than just kissing. There is a saying on this and other marraige sites that "if a cheater admits to kissing, it was really a BJ". What people that come to these sites usually learn is that, no matter how much you want to believe otherwise, their cheating spouse is rarely the exception to the rule. Assume with confidence that she did more than kiss when you talk to her, and let her try to convince you otherwise.


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## perilsoftheinternet

Thanks for all the advice.. tonight was interesting..she spent all night next to the laptop.. I caught her reading an email from him but didn't let on.. she also been listening to a load of music he sent her and she even spent some time looking at his photos on the photo sharing website.. luckily I've a good poker face but its hard to act normal..

I waiting for a good opportunity to get on her laptop.. hopefully tomorrow

As for their meeting, I'm struggling to believe there was bj or anything , but then again I thought I knew my wife And I clearly don't.

Reading the emails between them today makes.me think.she is looking for a way out. When I confront her I think she might just want to 
Call it a day between us... the thought of not living with, seeing my children everyday scares the life out
Of me

Funny how quickly life changes, 4 days ago I would never have believed I'd be writing this..

Thanks again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## perilsoftheinternet

Oh and they've arranged to speak on the phone again on the 8th Jan....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars

Take heart. If you've read many of the stories here you won't believe how quickly they drop the plans to "leave" once a serious confrontation occurs.

BUT it must be a serious confrontation. You cant scream, cry, plead, beg, or otherwise appear to be a weak man. Because if you do, she will immediately notice and justify in her mind that her internet boyfriend is a real man worth perusing. 

You have to be firm, calm, rational. Know what your are going to say and say it and nothing else. Let silence rule. She will be unnerved by the thunderous silence and hear the blood rushing in her ears. 

You tell her you recently discovered what she's been doing on the internet and that you know she met a boyfriend (use that word - puts her on defensive - but you are calm) in town. 

You are disappointed that the mother of your children would be so callous and disloyal. 

If at this point or any other she defends OM, ask her how many times he bathed and sat with her sick children? How many times he cleaned puke from the bathroom? etc. 

Tell her you can not and will not control her nor do you wish to. But you will control your actions and the direction of your marriage. Your marriage will consist only of loyal parents. She may join you in that and if she wants to be the one then she must speak now. "What's your answer?" (remain silent)

There is no arguing. If she denies an affair. Tell her not to make you show the evidence. She's demeaning herself but you can humiliate her with the evidence she wants if that's the way she wants to act. 

If she says she "needs time to think" then tell her you prefer she move out while she thinks. But as soon as your lawyer opens his office you will be there to seek a divorce. 

THAT will shake her up. It shakes her to the core. Suddenly, as many other betrayed spouses in your position have discovered, she will more than likely plead. 

If she doesn't then she leaves. If not the house, the marital bedroom. Stay with your emotions in check. Bite your tongue or inside cheek if you must. 

You can take a drive later and cry all you want. It is natural and understandable. But you have to try and preserve your marriage.


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## TDSC60

Do not let fear govern your actions. 

You must be willing to divorce her if she refuse to stop contact with him. You must be willing to divorce her if she says she will stop but continues.

You have to be firm. You or him and choose now - not in a week, not in a couple of days - now.

If she waffles or tries to delay, tell her you will file for divorce.


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## CleanJerkSnatch

Machiavelli said:


> The plain and simple explanation is quite straightforward. She's saying that sex in the park, or the bj in the car, makes her feel guilty, even though it shouldn't, because _"how could something be wrong, when it feels so right." _


Ahh, we are always on the same frequency Machiavelli.
This is no longer an EA but a PA. Completely wrong. Your wives own conscience says so. She will accustom her conscience (synderesis) and dull it so that this cheating will grow. Boundaries will be tested. 
Forbidden fruits will be tasted.

Kill this now. Blow it up. Do not TOLERATE IT. Tell her if she even speaks to him, she will find her belongings outside on the lawn and the LOCKS changed and she can go get a LAWYER to open the door up, etc etc.


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## daggeredheart

Sorry to see another person going through this. There are many post on here regarding online affairs. If you look through my post history you will find some fantastic advice from iheartlife along with many others who experienced similar situations. 

Read up on affairs and act wisely. Learn all you can before you confront, I know it's hard when you witness your spouse pining away for someone else but now is the time to be as cool and collected as bond 007. 

You are not alone in this mess.


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## carmen ohio

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Thanks for all the advice.. tonight was interesting..she spent all night next to the laptop.. I caught her reading an email from him but didn't let on.. she also been listening to a load of music he sent her and she even spent some time looking at his photos on the photo sharing website.. luckily I've a good poker face but its hard to act normal..
> 
> I waiting for a good opportunity to get on her laptop.. hopefully tomorrow
> 
> As for their meeting, I'm struggling to believe there was bj or anything , but then again I thought I knew my wife And I clearly don't.
> 
> *Reading the emails between them today makes.me think.she is looking for a way out. When I confront her I think she might just want to
> Call it a day between us... the thought of not living with, seeing my children everyday scares the life out
> Of me*
> 
> Funny how quickly life changes, 4 days ago I would never have believed I'd be writing this..
> 
> Thanks again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dear poti,

Your getting good advice but there's something else you need to understand. If you want to have the best chance of saving your marriage, you have to be willing to lose it or at least be able to act as if you are.

When you confront your WW, if she balks at anything you ask of her, you must tell her it means you're through with her and then, if she still doesn't relent, start divorce proceedings immediately while doing the 180.

This is the surest and fastest way to snap your WW out of her affair fog and get her head back into her marriage. It also helps reestablish you as the primary man in her life (right now, you're # 2 at best).

It would be best if you really were of a mind to kick her to the curb for what she's done, because that would mean you are an alpha male. Since it appears (based on your admission of fear) that you are not at all alpha, the next best thing is to act as alpha as you can.

You should also read "Married Man Sex Life Primer" by Athol Kay and check out his website:

Blog | Married Man Sex Life

Luckily for you, his latest post ("What It Means When She Tells You She Kissed Another Man") is directly applicable to your situation.

If you don't believe me, read some of the threads of the many beta losers on this site to see what misery awaits you if you can't summon up the testosterone to tell your WW that it's your way or the highway.

Good luck.


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## warlock07

Find out about this guy. Is he married ?


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## perilsoftheinternet

OK my plan of action

I've started getting copies of her emails... I'm going to get a keylogger installed so I can get her password to the photosharing website, thats where most of the emails are.. i presume google will point me to some decent keylogger freeware 

Should I speak to her parents at some point, show them some of the evidence? If I ask wife to leave after confronting her she will go there.


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## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> OK my plan of action
> 
> I've started getting copies of her emails... I'm going to get a keylogger installed so I can get her password to the photosharing website, thats where most of the emails are.. i presume google will point me to some decent keylogger freeware
> 
> Should I speak to her parents at some point, show them some of the evidence? If I ask wife to leave after confronting her she will go there.


Spryrix free keylogger works for me and it was quick and easy to install. I would not speak to her parents before you confront. They may tip her off before you are ready.

If you install the keylogger today, chances are you will have the password for the photo site by tomorrow. 

Try to stay cool, get out of the house and walk. You are not alone in this.


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## Wazza

keko said:


> Now why would she say that?
> 
> Maybe she's suspecting you're either reading her emails? Wants to add some doubt to confuse you?





Machiavelli said:


> The plain and simple explanation is quite straightforward. She's saying that sex in the park, or the bj in the car, makes her feel guilty, even though it shouldn't, because _"how could something be wrong, when it feels so right." _


Yes, both of these could be true, or she could be genuinely struggling with guilt and her feelings for OM. Not everyone is a promiscuous wh0re you know.

It took a long time for my wife and I to be able to discuss this aspect of her affair, but the way she describes it she had this kind of blind panic because she had this intense attraction she knew was wrong and didn't know how to deal with. So by small steps she got into a position of dealing with it badly...because she was out of control and trying to regain control.

Perils, how ethical, decent and honest is your wife normally? See you have a decision to make.

Maybe she is by nature a cheater, in which case you will probably have issues like this ongoing.

Or maybe she is in the process of making a mistake, like my wife did. (And some people will say it was a deliberate choice, not a mistake. They are right in a sense. My wife made some bad deliberate choices....But I know they were out of character for her, and after a long time I kind of get where her head was at the time).

Whichever it is, I agree with those who say she will almost certainly lie. So gather your evidence, and steel your self for ripping her story to shreds under cross examination.

Here's something I would suggest. Don't have a prolonged discussion. Confront her, trap her in two or three lies, then say something like "I know this is not the truth. I want the full truth. I want you to write it down." Then leave her alone for a time to do so. The point being to give her time to calm down before she tells too many lies and digs herself in too deep. You also want to be able to check the accuracy of the full story when she gives it to you, so you have to have significant facts she doesn't know you have.

If possible, try to ask things in such a way that she doesn't know your source is the emails. For example, you could ask about the face to face meeting, and she might think they were seen.

If it were me, I would also stress that the future of the marriage depends on truth, and I would probably disappear for a day or two to give her time to think, and send the message that this is serious.

I also strongly counsel about being "understanding" or "caring" or "acknowledging your failings". There is time for all that later. Right now she needs an unambiguous message that she has to make a choice about something she is doing that is totally her decision and totally unacceptable.

You may have a major problem on your hands, or you may have caught it early and be able to address it. In fact, working through it together, while very painful, might bring you closer as a couple.

Working through it requires a whole lot more thought, but first lets figure out if she is a serial cheater, or someone caught up in feelings they don't know how to deal with.

So don't despair yet. But don't relax or go soft either!!! Don't give her second chances, or cut her slack. Insist on a higher level of openness. Do not trust her word without verifying it.


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## perilsoftheinternet

Great post wassa..thanks..

She is an ethical, decent person.. had a good upbringing, solid family behind her... going back a long time when we met, it was quite a while before we got physical..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy

You want to find out everything you can about the OM - I'm betting he maybe married or have a GF. 

You need to find out where he lives, and how to contact his wife/gf - because that is the #1 way to run him off.


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## the guy

Your plan needs to include her leaving when confronting so get all your ducks in a row and work up a plan that will prevent it from happening.

I would suggest you research the Om and find out as much as you can. If he is married then that is your ace card. You won't even have to confront your wife. 

You can expose the affair to the OM side and then let his wife confront OM and Om will confront your wife.

1)Expose the affair to OM side, expose affair to WW parents at the same time.

2) Sit back and wait for wife to confront you.

3) State your boundries in order to keep her around.


----------



## the guy

You need to research OM
Find any WW's hidden money 
Plant voice activated recorder in her car


My point is you need to be more then a few steps ahead of your wife so start by finding out what she plans to do next so you can counter it. and prevent any more hook ups.

In fact wait and find out when they plan to hook up and then you will have a dead line to blow this affair up.


----------



## Wazza

the guy said:


> You need to research OM
> Find any WW's hidden money
> Plant voice activated recorder in her car
> 
> 
> My point is you need to be more then a few steps ahead of your wife so start by finding out what she plans to do next so you can counter it. and prevent any more hook ups.
> 
> In fact wait and find out when they plan to hook up and then you will have a dead line to blow this affair up.


The trouble with this is...if nothing serious has yet happened, acting quickly could head things off at the pass. Waiting gives time for her feelings to grow more. Waiting risks the sexual aspect of what they are doing getting worse. Waiting gives her time to suppress her conscience.

I would not wait. You have enough to confront now. Head it off before it gets deeper.


----------



## MattMatt

Remind her she is cheating on her children, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JMGrey

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Great post wassa..thanks..
> 
> She is an ethical, decent person.. had a good upbringing, solid family behind her... going back a long time when we met, it was quite a while before we got physical..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Perils,

It's a wonderful thing that you're willing to defend your wife in light of what you know she has done and what she very likely has done as well, but you need to recognize that it's both useless and factually incorrect. It's incorrect because she is, in fact, not a decent person because she has thrown her marriage and commitment to you under the bus for another man. That is not the action of a decent person. Second, it's useless because such thoughts make you see the person you married, and not the person that she has become, a person that will throw away your marriage for an illicit romance and then lie to your face about it. If you can't see her for what she has become, you will not be able to take the steps you need to solve this problem before it becomes irrevocably broken (if it isn't already) because your love for the woman she used to be won't permit it. That's why emotional detachment is so important in this process. Get your head on straight and get in the fight. Good luck, man.


----------



## Chaparral

Wazza said:


> The trouble with this is...if nothing serious has yet happened, acting quickly could head things off at the pass. Waiting gives time for her feelings to grow more. Waiting risks the sexual aspect of what they are doing getting worse. Waiting gives her time to suppress her conscience.
> 
> I would not wait. You have enough to confront now. Head it off before it gets deeper.


I agree . You can get the VAR at Wal-Mart best buy immedeatly . Velcro it under the seat of her car, another one in the house where she might go to call om.

Then confront. She gets with the program or gets out. The only way these things work is to be decisive and fast.

Good luck, this only works out if you have the strength to pull it off. Do not be afraid to snatch the phone either.


----------



## Chaparral

Try to get VAR s with usb ports to hook up to a computer.


----------



## Wazza

JMGrey said:


> Perils,
> 
> It's a wonderful thing that you're willing to defend your wife in light of what you know she has done and what she very likely has done as well, but you need to recognize that it's both useless and factually incorrect. It's incorrect because she is, in fact, not a decent person because she has thrown her marriage and commitment to you under the bus for another man. That is not the action of a decent person. Second, it's useless because such thoughts make you see the person you married, and not the person that she has become, a person that will throw away your marriage for an illicit romance and then lie to your face about it. If you can't see her for what she has become, you will not be able to take the steps you need to solve this problem before it becomes irrevocably broken (if it isn't already) because your love for the woman she used to be won't permit it. That's why emotional detachment is so important in this process. Get your head on straight and get in the fight. Good luck, man.


His comment wasn't a defence. It was an answer to my question.

For me, if what is happening was out of character I would work on things. If she is a serial cheat who doesn't see cheating as wrong, I would let go.

She has not yet thrown the marriage under the bus, based on the known facts. The emails suggest that she is in fact struggling with a battle between desire and conscience.

But I agree that emotional detachment is needed right now.


----------



## walkonmars

JMGrey said:


> Perils,
> 
> It's a wonderful thing that you're willing to defend your wife in light of what you know she has done and what she very likely has done as well, but you need to recognize that it's both useless and factually incorrect. It's incorrect because she is, in fact, not a decent person because she has thrown her marriage and commitment to you under the bus for another man. That is not the action of a decent person. Second, it's useless because such thoughts make you see the person you married, and not the person that she has become, a person that will throw away your marriage for an illicit romance and then lie to your face about it. If you can't see her for what she has become, you will not be able to take the steps you need to solve this problem before it becomes irrevocably broken (if it isn't already) because your love for the woman she used to be won't permit it. That's why emotional detachment is so important in this process. Get your head on straight and get in the fight. Good luck, man.


We're not saying to hate/loath her. Or that she hasn't been a decent person. But she isn't acting honorably and hasn't for a while .

She's been and is being quite dishonest, disloyal, and disrespectful to you. She is very capable of embracing these qualities once again and regaining some trust but she doesn't have those now. 

Remember these things when she denies, minimizes, or even blames you for any of this. 

You may have some shortcomings we don't know about and they may be quite evident to her. So if she brings them up you should not 'dismiss out of hand'. But she had ample opportunity to raise any of the issues with you before she decided to engage in an illicit affair. 

If the issues she raises sound legitimate and not just a re-writing of marital history (a common tact) then tell her you are willing to discuss/address your own issues but this is not the time to do so. Because there may be no marriage for her to return to. 

Tell her the issues she wants to raise are akin to complaining about faulty electrical wiring in a house when the house is on fire. Put the fire out first then address the wiring.


----------



## warlock07

Any idea about the financials ? Do you think she might be stealing some money off the family account from her personal


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

hello again

Well I'm feeling different now...more in control of the situation, I guess knowledge is power and at the moment I hold the trump cards.
Also my initial feelings of shock and sorrow have become more anger, especially today when we went to her parents and it was all "happy" families... when her father finds out about this he will go mad at her..

I understand now, and agree with your advice, that she is no longer the person I knew and that I once trusted, her behaviour actually makes me feel sick.. when she tries to make excuses and get out of this , I'll be strong and remember the advice in this thread.. havn't quite worked out yet how I'll stay calm..I get emotional quite easily..

I've got a keylogger but she is never away for long enough for me to get it installed at configured..thats key to getting into her photosharing website.. she is going out Friday night though so that will be my chance to install keylogger and forward emails..

One thing I havn't mentioned yet is we are in the UK.

Regarding the OM , I have found out from his website that he lives in London, I know which suburb but don't have an address. It was a park in London where he and my wife met. 
He is married with kids and from his emails he states he has decided to stick by his wife (hence earlier comments about them agreeing to be friends from now on).. no idea how I find out how to contact his wife

I looked at the journal he gave her today.. 5-6 pages of doodles, expressions of love, poetry written down.. I can see my wife is in emotional turmoil and probably doesn;t know what to do for the best. When I confront her I think it will actually be a big relief to her that it is out in the open..

If I can get the keylogger on Friday night, access and copy emails Saturday, then Monday when the kids are at school will be the time to confront. Thats the day before they are due to speak next. Logistically after confronting it will be easier if i go somewhere else for the night to let her think things over... 

I've found a VAR on ebay for £40 which I think will do the job, I'm pretty certain she'll speak to him from the lounge as they'll probably be looking at photos online whilst talking and that is where her laptop is... 

Financials, I'm safe there, she doesn't know the details for the online banking. She doesn't work so has no income to hide away.

I've confided in a friend so thats helped me deal with this, ironically he was my best man at our wedding.. 

Thanks everyone..onwards and upwards !


----------



## JMGrey

perilsoftheinternet said:


> hello again
> 
> Well I'm feeling different now...more in control of the situation, I guess knowledge is power and at the moment I hold the trump cards.
> Also my initial feelings of shock and sorrow have become more anger, especially today when we went to her parents and it was all "happy" families... when her father finds out about this he will go mad at her..
> 
> I understand now, and agree with your advice, that she is no longer the person I knew and that I once trusted, her behaviour actually makes me feel sick.. when she tries to make excuses and get out of this , I'll be strong and remember the advice in this thread.. havn't quite worked out yet how I'll stay calm..I get emotional quite easily..
> 
> I've got a keylogger but she is never away for long enough for me to get it installed at configured..thats key to getting into her photosharing website.. she is going out Friday night though so that will be my chance to install keylogger and forward emails..
> 
> One thing I havn't mentioned yet is we are in the UK.
> 
> Regarding the OM , I have found out from his website that he lives in London, I know which suburb but don't have an address. It was a park in London where he and my wife met.
> He is married with kids and from his emails he states he has decided to stick by his wife (hence earlier comments about them agreeing to be friends from now on).. no idea how I find out how to contact his wife
> 
> I looked at the journal he gave her today.. 5-6 pages of doodles, expressions of love, poetry written down.. I can see my wife is in emotional turmoil and probably doesn;t know what to do for the best. When I confront her I think it will actually be a big relief to her that it is out in the open..
> 
> If I can get the keylogger on Friday night, access and copy emails Saturday, then Monday when the kids are at school will be the time to confront. Thats the day before they are due to speak next. Logistically after confronting it will be easier if i go somewhere else for the night to let her think things over...
> 
> I've found a VAR on ebay for £40 which I think will do the job, I'm pretty certain she'll speak to him from the lounge as they'll probably be looking at photos online whilst talking and that is where her laptop is...
> 
> Financials, I'm safe there, she doesn't know the details for the online banking. She doesn't work so has no income to hide away.
> 
> I've confided in a friend so thats helped me deal with this, ironically he was my best man at our wedding..
> 
> Thanks everyone..onwards and upwards !


I had a little trouble sussing it out from the thread, but is the current presumption that the affair wasn't physical? If so, then I'm with Mach on this one. The only thing that prevents an EA from becoming a PA is lack of opportunity and you already know that they met up physically. I could very well be wrong but be prepared for TT to reveal that it actually crossed that line. In the meantime build your case with all the evidence that you can get and for God's sake don't tip your hand until you've got her dead to rights. Till then, good luck and stay strong.


----------



## walkonmars

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I can see my wife is in emotional turmoil and probably doesn;t know what to do for the best.* When I confront her I think it will actually be a big relief to her that it is out in the open*..


The bold above is probably spot on. The affair is young yet so she may be somewhat in conflict with her long held good-girl morals and her desire for the excitement of illicit sex - if not physically then emotionally. 

It is likely that many photos have been shared. And you know it wasn't landscapes they were sharing. 

The sooner you address this in a calm but forceful manner the better the chance of her deciding that illicit sexual desires are not worth the loss of her family. 

If on the other hand they have formed a deep bond (the book you mentioned is a hook) then she may just decide to find out what 'all the shades of gray' stuff is about. 

She will surly decide to go with a forceful man if she is wavering between both 'worlds'. That is why you should present yourself in a calm, confident, courageous manner. And not be willing to "give her time" to decide. 

She's in or she's out. Immediate decision. Indecision means divorce (she needs to really believe this - even if you don't intend to pursue it fully). 

I understand that in the UK it takes at least one year of separation for divorce to be final. This gives you time to present papers confidently.

You must not appear 'wimpy' that is: pleading; crying; emotional; promising things. None of that. Not even. 

-------------
Practice installing the key logger on your own computer and check out how it works. That way you will have a bit of experience when you do hers. 

You can have your friend help with yours so you can be swift with hers.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

thanks... luckily I watched every James Bond film and I also work in I.T so I'll be well ahead of the game... the only records I can't access are her phone records which is a shame

I'm prepared and accept the fact I'm going to hear alot of things that I don't like from her including how far things went physically, although if she says they "just" kissed I have no way to proove otherwise at the moment..

I'm going to start the confrontation with the journal/book.. say i found it and ask what the story is....only later if I'm not getting the truth will I move on to emails..

I'm thinking my work performance/attendance might be impacted by all this... do many people in this position tell their boss ??


----------



## walkonmars

If your boss is 'family friendly' instead of 'bottom line' 
It's a good idea to let him know that you are dealing with family issues that you hope to resolve. Let him know it's marital problems. But no need to give details - or very minimal details. 

If he is in a position to help and offers to help (finding OM wife's address, names of good lawyers, etc) then take him up on it. 

Let him know you will continue to work diligently and ask if it will be okay if you have to take a day or afternoon off in the next week or two. Let him know you are willing to make up the time. 
----------------

You said the OM had a website?


----------



## the guy

I didn't tell my boss and got labeled a flake for my lack of production.
In hindsight i should have asked for some time off for family emergency. Now I'm working my butt off to regain my reputation.

its funny how boss only remember the bad and forget all the good.

take some time off and work your plan, just don't tell your wife.

BTW I did tell my boos later on and he said I should have taken the time off instead of looking like a flake.

Tell the boss!!!


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Ok good advice

My boss has his faults but when it comes to family he is great, flexible working allowed etc etc.. he himself seperated from his wife 5 years ago ..

I might need to take holiday at short notice... I'll speak to him but won't give him details


----------



## walkonmars

The OM has a website? 
Does he sell or exhibit his work? 

If so, and since you are in IT, is there a way to determine who has the rights to the address? Is there a registry kept somewhere? Perhaps a home address can be discovered that way James (Bond that is)?


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

walkonmars... you are a genius

now got full address !! love the internet, (apart from when it causes affairs)

Now to get a phone number for that address.. I already have his mobile number..

Looking at his address on google streetview...


----------



## tom67

Good work keep going and finish this.


----------



## walkonmars

perilsoftheinternet said:


> walkonmars... you are a genius
> 
> now got full address !! love the internet, (apart from when it causes affairs)
> 
> Now to get a phone number for that address.. I already have his mobile number..
> 
> Looking at his address on google streetview...



Nice job James! (Bond) that is!


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Massive impulse to get in car, 22:07 now , drive there about 2 hours away and confront them both... a very bad idea I know but god its tempting !


----------



## walkonmars

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Massive impulse to get in car, 22:07 now , drive there about 2 hours away and confront them both... a very bad idea I know but god its tempting !


Wait a minute James, wait a darn minute!

What do you mean BOTH - are they together now?


----------



## tom67

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Massive impulse to get in car, 22:07 now , drive there about 2 hours away and confront them both... a very bad idea I know but god its tempting !


Are you sure she is there? If so then go if you can.


----------



## tom67

Wait why is she there? It's new years.


----------



## EleGirl

perilsoftheinternet said:


> walkonmars... you are a genius
> 
> now got full address !! love the internet, (apart from when it causes affairs)
> 
> Now to get a phone number for that address.. I already have his mobile number..
> 
> Looking at his address on google streetview...


I suggest you get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. It can be quite helpful.

Leaving her alone after you talk to you about all of this might not be the best idea. One of the first things you need from her is that she write him a no contact letter. You can find good sample via a Google search. She needs to write it and then you be there to observe her sending the email.

The last thing you want is for her to be contacting him after you talk to her so that she can warn him and the two of them work out a story. 

Having a packet, or cd, with all of their correspondence delivered to his wife at the same time you are talking to your wife is also a good idea. He will be busy trying to save his own marriage that he will dump your wife in a heartbeat.


----------



## kenmoore14217

Am I smelling a rat? He said they will talk again on the 8th and now he is suggesting that they are together now? Does not jive.


----------



## Machiavelli

I think he's talking about OM and OMW.

Perils, you're getting great advice. Read MMSL as soon as possible.


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Massive impulse to get in car, 22:07 now , drive there about 2 hours away and confront them both... a very bad idea I know but god its tempting !


Good Evening Mr Bond. I sincerely hope you have not gone anywhere. I know you want to go knock on his door and put his gonads in the blender but you really should wait.

You have got some great advice and all these lovely people here are trying, in their various ways and with a wealth of experience, to stop from making a bad situation a total screw up. 

Make friends with that keylogger - know how it works and most importantly from how to keep it hidden and install it only when you can be sure you have the time to get it set right.

It's really important you remain as calm as you can. Acting too soon is going to hamper you.

You say that you have more info on OM. This is good. What else do you need? I'm good at getting info. If you need a little social engineering done, I can do that. I'm in the UK, and don't mind using my landline/mobile/IP addy to get more. PM me if I can help.

Meantime, stay put, say as little as you can, except maybe to your boss.

You are doing a great job under difficult circumstances. Don't screw it up, please.


----------



## Louise7

Louise7 said:


> Good Evening Mr Bond. I sincerely hope you have not gone anywhere. I know you want to go knock on his door and put his gonads in the blender but you really should wait.
> 
> You have got some great advice and all these lovely people here are trying, in their various ways and with a wealth of experience, to stop from making a bad situation a total screw up.
> 
> Make friends with that keylogger - know how it works and most importantly from how to keep it hidden and install it only when you can be sure you have the time to get it set right.
> 
> It's really important you remain as calm as you can. Acting too soon is going to hamper you.
> 
> You say that you have more info on OM. This is good. What else do you need? I'm good at getting info. If you need a little social engineering done, I can do that. I'm in the UK, and don't mind using my landline/mobile/IP addy to get more. PM me if I can help.
> 
> Meantime, stay put, say as little as you can, except maybe to your boss.
> 
> You are doing a great job under difficult circumstances. Don't screw it up, please.


PS: Forgot to say...also belong to photo sharing website and can talk photo/art borax with the best of 'em. It might be useful...?


----------



## MattMatt

As you are in IT you'll be aware of the Data Protection Act. 

Am I saying not to spy on your wife's computer? _No. But I am advising you not to let her know_.


----------



## walkonmars

Great point MattMatt

James - make no mention of how you got her info. That means do not show her any info from the computers. You may want to casually ask your lawyer what rights you have to electronic devices in your home. 

You may have an out if he says that you have as much right to the data on a computer you bought as she does. Act with diligence.


----------



## MattMatt

walkonmars said:


> Great point MattMatt
> 
> James - make no mention of how you got her info. That means do not show her any info from the computers. You may want to casually ask your lawyer what rights you have to electronic devices in your home.
> 
> You may have an out if he says that you have as much right to the data on a computer you bought as she does. Act with diligence.


Don't ask the lawyer. Sometimes they get an attack of honour (or something) and might report it if you planned anything illegal.


----------



## Acabado

The phone number you need is BWs not her OM's.
Also, make copies of the journal so can forward it to the wife.


----------



## Chaparral

Cheaterville.com , I believe has a British version. It works wonders when tried. Whenever his name is googled his true nature jumps up and bites him.


----------



## MattMatt

You can find UK Post Codes OR postal addresses with this handy little helper Find a postcode or address


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Hi

First let me clarify, when I said go there and confront them I meant OM and OMW (still trying to get to grips with all these abbreviations)

Louise7, thanks for your offers of help.. I'll bear that in mind if I need anything.. I've been testing keylogger on my other pc for a couple of days so comfortable with it..

I'll get a NC letter drafted and also send all correspondance to his wife at the appropriate time..

Thanks everyone


----------



## NewM

I suggest that you give all info to OMW before you confront your wife so she doesn't tell to OM that you know and he can't get prepared and tell his wife that there is some nutjob guy who thinks his wife is having affair with him.


----------



## Will_Kane

It sounds like all they did was kiss; maybe groped a little, too. You usually can believe what they say to each other in messages unless they think you're spying, and it doesn't appear that they have any idea you're onto them. It's when she tells you all she did was kiss that nine times out of ten it was more than just a kiss. In your case, it actually will be the truth, but she may not even admit to that much.

It also sounds like the affair is winding down, but not because your wife wanted it to; only because other man put the brakes on.

It also sounds like the affair could start up again quite easily; they already have plans to talk again; so other man is waffling.

Based on this, and if you can see all of their communications and know they only plan to talk next week and don't have any plans to meet, you have a little time to plan. A warning, though, plans can change and the next time they meet likely won't just be a kiss.

When you do confront her, don't give her any evidence whatsoever. Just tell her you KNOW. Tell her you have indisputable evidence, but don't say what the evidence is. NEVER GIVE AWAY YOUR SOURCES. You may need them later. Giving away the journal as a source is OK, you can't use that again, anyway. Assuming she knows you have access to her email and just doesn't think you ever look, she probably will suspect that is your source, so it's not too big a deal to give that up, either. She likely will change passwords as soon as you confront and delete all emails from/to other man, so get that evidence safe first.

*First thing you should do, if possible, is contact other man's wife*. DO NOT CONTACT OTHER MAN, ONLY HIS WIFE. Try to do it by phone, or if not by phone, in person, that way you know other man is not intercepting. Tell her what you know and tell her what evidence you have and offer it to her if she wants proof. One or two professing their love and the one about them meeting up and kissing should be enough, and definitely a copy of the journal other man gave your wife. Tell her you plan to confront your wife shortly and ask her to contact you or you her in a day or two to let each other know what happened.

At this point, you may not have to bother confronting your wife, she may get a call from other man and confront you.

When you confront your wife, tell her that you KNOW she has been engaging in very inappropriate behavior with another man, that you have indisputable evidence, and ask her to tell you the truth. If she plays dumb, name the guy and where he lives and his wife's name, bring up all of your years together, what you've gone through with the kids, and tell her you deserve the truth. If she leaves anything out or tells any lies (e.g., we never met) tell her you know that's not true.

Tell her you are still making up your mind on whether to divorce her or not. If she isn't willing to do what you need to heal from this, you will divorce her. Tell her you love her, that you want to work on your marriage, improve your marriage and improve yourself, and you don't want to divorce her, but that you refuse to stay in a marriage where you're being cheated on and lied to, even after being caught. These are the conditions she must meet:

1. Cease all contact with other man. Leave the website where she met him never to return there.

2. She handwrites a no contact letter stating how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior, how she feels terrible for risking losing the most important person in the world to her, her husband, and that if he ever attempts to contact her again she will file harassment charges against him. The letter begins with his name only, no "dear," and ends with "signed" and her name; it does not contain any "so sorry it didn't work out," or "you will always hhave a place in my heart," or "I will always think of you as a friend," or any other such nonsense. She gives the letter to you to verify its content and mail to other man. She agrees to let you know IMMEDIATELY if they have any communication or ATTEMPTED communication. Under no circumstances should she respond to any communication from other man, she should just let you know immediately.

3. She agrees to give up all passwords and access to all communication devices and accounts; she agrees not to delete any messages or browsing history; she agrees to let you know where he is 24/7 and agrees to answer your calls or texts immediately; she agrees to delete him from her contacts and block him on Facebook and block him on any other accounts she has to the extent possible; and she agrees to no "new" accounts.

If she doesn't agree, expose the affair to your close family and friends. Don't tell her you are planning on doing this, just do it. Tell them that she has had an affair, she refuses to end it, and ask for them to call your her to influence her to end it and return to the marriage. Then file for divorce.

In the meantime, detach from her. Speak to her only about necessary issues regarding the kids, finances, or divorce. Until she agrees to your conditions, proceed to divorce.

If she agrees to your conditions, work on your marriage. But to verify that she maintains no contact, buy a voice-activated recorder and some heavy-duty velcro and place it under the front seat of her car and in the house where she likely will talk to him. Leave it there for at least 2-3 weeks until you can see that there truly is no contact. It would be a good idea to have this in place before the exposure to the other man's wife and before the confrontation with your wife, so you can hear what is said, if anything, right after the exposure and confrontation.


----------



## Chaparral

I think the reason the om wants to cool it is because she did not have sex with him. He is using that to tell her she doesn't really love him. He is giving her few days to realize that he doesn't need her if she doesn't put out. However, he will check with her in a few days to see if she has come around.
She will.
Jump on this quick with both feet. If you can verify his address, send him a picture of it from Google earth.
He's just reeling her in at this point.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Well I think she knows I know...

I just came home from work early because I couldn't concentrate and I knew she was due to go out this afternoon so thought I could get on her laptop.

Anyway, before she went out she was hastily doing lots of things on her laptop, including printing off her email settings configuration/password. She then went out but left things on her laptop that could never never never have been an accident... a cup with a little bit of plastic standing up underneath and a USB harddrive... she obviously knew I'd be after her laptop

need to pay off credit card so going to use her laptop to do it as an excuse to use it

So I'm going to have to bring plans forward , one of our children is away tonight.. so when the other two go to bed I think it will have to be done !! Wonder how she will react...


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Well I think she knows I know...
> 
> I just came home from work early because I couldn't concentrate and I knew she was due to go out this afternoon so thought I could get on her laptop.
> 
> Anyway, before she went out she was hastily doing lots of things on her laptop, including printing off her email settings configuration/password. She then went out but left things on her laptop that could never never never have been an accident... a cup with a little bit of plastic standing up underneath and a USB harddrive... she obviously knew I'd be after her laptop
> 
> need to pay off credit card so going to use her laptop to do it as an excuse to use it
> 
> So I'm going to have to bring plans forward , one of our children is away tonight.. so when the other two go to bed I think it will have to be done !! Wonder how she will react...


Just put the keylogger on and sit back and wait. Nice going on the 'I need to pay off the CC' as an excuse.


----------



## walkonmars

Louise7 said:


> Just put the keylogger on and sit back and wait. Nice going on the 'I need to pay off the CC' as an excuse.


:iagree:
The affair is young. She may have decided one of two things;
1-Go forward with the affair. In which case she has made plans to hide it well. - new secret email - so fwd all old posts there etc

2-Give up the affair and get back to being in real life

As louise7 suggests keylogger will point the way.


----------



## Acabado

OM is using the same tactic the OM in may case did. Bombarding with cumpliments and declarations of undying love only to play the "need to stay only friends", playing the noble card because "fate is against us", only to them keep bombarding her (journal), planing/delaying phone calls so anticipation grows... this push/pull tactic works. Google limerance, that his objetive. It's agame for him. My wife fell hard, very hard. He wants his way to her pants and he won't give up. He's a very skilled cheater and play his cards very well. I highly suspect he does it with more than a woman at the time to increase his chances.

You need to be very form in killing this affair with exposure.

It's sems she's saving the emails as mementoes to relive them. She likely went to put them at a safe place (friend's house?). She must gave up them. Again, tell her you "know". Don't volunteer info, don't tell her how you know.


----------



## NewM

Just play it cool,you got keylogger and var so you will know everything she is thinking 
If she decides to contact OM and tell him that you might know you will know.

You might be over thinking it because you didn't pay attention to that kind of stuff before and it didn't matter to you.


----------



## NewM

Acabado said:


> It's sems she's saving the emails as mementoes to relive them. She likely went to put them at a safe place (friend's house?). She must gave up them. Again, tell her you "know". Don't volunteer info, don't tell her how you know.


I disagree with telling her he knows,he has keylogger and var so he better see what he gets from that and then tell her he knows.


----------



## cpacan

NewM said:


> I disagree with telling her he knows,he has keylogger and var so he better see what he gets from that and then tell her he knows.


Well, if I could've stopped my wife from going further than this, and not experienced a fullblown PA, undetected for 9 months, you bet I would have done so.

Kill it as soon as possible, and before it destroys the relationship beyond repair (if R is what OP wants).


----------



## Wazza

OP, your wife is human. Manipulation works. Right now her head is confused. Don't underestimate the power of this stuff, and think carefully before you dismiss your wife's morality because she is falling for this, unaware she is being played.


----------



## walkonmars

Wazza
With respect to her morality, she may not know the full intentions of the om and the depth to which it can lead, but she also doesn't think he is suggesting partaking in a non-marriage threatening activity. 

She knows and is conflicted.


----------



## Acabado

NewM said:


> I disagree with telling her he knows,he has keylogger and var so he better see what he gets from that and then tell her he knows.


Didn't mean telling her now. 
He needs top do all the snoping and a proper confrontation.
This thing about coming clean about the mementoes is just another step. In case she claims remorse, agree the rules and OP give her another chance she can't save them obviously. I'd say the same about the clothes she wore while the met.
I encourage OP to give her the chance to fess up without revealing sources.


----------



## Wazza

walkonmars said:


> Wazza
> With respect to her morality, she may not know the full intentions of the om and the depth to which it can lead, but she also doesn't think he is suggesting partaking in a non-marriage threatening activity.
> 
> She knows and is conflicted.


Possibly. She might think he wants to be just friends and honour the marriage.

My wife fully gets what her affair did to us, but to this day doesn't know whether OM was just trying to get into her pants. Needless to say I have a different view of al this.


----------



## KanDo

Wazza said:


> Possibly. She might think he wants to be just friends and honour the marriage.
> 
> My wife fully gets what her affair did to us, but to this day doesn't know whether OM was just trying to get into her pants. Needless to say I have a different view of al this.


Yeah.. I have some Florida swamp land...errr potential development sites to talk to you about too.:rofl:


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Keyloogger on, she is downstairs on laptop now.. will get on there tomorrow

She could be txting him..she never lets phone out of her sight


----------



## walkonmars

Can you check phone records online?


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

No, I tried..account locked.. I'll just have to take it out with me when I walk the dogs 

She'll know I've seen it then though probably


----------



## tom67

perilsoftheinternet said:


> No, I tried..account locked.. I'll just have to take it out with me when I walk the dogs
> 
> She'll know I've seen it then though probably


Just remind her there are no secrets in marriage. After you confront her both of you should have access to each others email passwords and phone pws. Be very matter of fact. Tell her you can't control her but you can control what you will put up with such as not having a third party in the marriage.


----------



## Wazza

KanDo said:


> Yeah.. I have some Florida swamp land...errr potential development sites to talk to you about too.:rofl:


Perhaps she is the one who might be willing to purchase.

I'm not defending it. I'm just saying what is. I think she is naive, but I am certain she is sincere. It becomes a more complex question when the affair involves genuine affection as well as sexual attraction.

Staying on topic, OP's wife may genuinely believe this guy cares for her and genuinely believe he is not playing her. She may genuinely intend to be close with him without getting into affair territory. Not saying she is right, talking about what she may think.


----------



## Will_Kane

chapparal said:


> I think the reason the om wants to cool it is because she did not have sex with him. He is using that to tell her she doesn't really love him. He is giving her few days to realize that he doesn't need her if she doesn't put out. However, he will check with her in a few days to see if she has come around.
> She will.
> Jump on this quick with both feet. If you can verify his address, send him a picture of it from Google earth.
> He's just reeling her in at this point.


This is exactly what I was thinking. She only kissed him. He wanted her to go back to his room for sex, for whatever reason (not emotionally ready to cheat, had to pick up kids) she didn't.

He does not want to invest a lot of time if there won't be any sex. Next time, she will have sex with him.


----------



## Chaparral

I think the confrontation needs to start out like this.

"We need to talk"

"What about?"

"Your date, kissing and making out with______ ______ in the ________Park" .

"Blah, blah,blah,blah"

"So we need to start talking about the divorce then?"


----------



## Chaparral

Remember, no crying, hugging, (she is disgusting to you) talk of forgiveness.

She needs to see strength, determination, strength, controlled anger, strength and most importantly the willingness to move on without her and the dtermination to f*ck up the OM's life from now on.


----------



## Chaparral

*Quote:
Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long,lon time.*


----------



## JCD

How did you give away that you know?


----------



## Yessongs72

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I'm thinking my work performance/attendance might be impacted by all this... do many people in this position tell their boss ??


Amongst all the advice given on this site there are these to words "protect yourself". By telling your boss you are protecting yourself against (in the worst case) losing your job due to a dip in your performance due to stress/worry/loss-of-sleep. i realized my work performance was dipping and told my boss straight away - he doesn't need details, just a heads-up that something big and bad is going on in your life.


----------



## happyman64

Perils

Play it cool.

Let her come to you. 

If no confrontation occurs wit for the keylogger info.

Hopefully you are sleeping now.

HM64


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

My boss let me work from home today , I know she is going out shortly so I'll look at last nights keylogger logs..

sleep is not easy , the last 4 nights have been the longest, loneliest of my life.. I can tell she is awake alot of the night as well

_How did you give away that you know? _I don't know what she thinks or knows, but it was odd that she was printing off her email id/password information.. 

I got a quick look at her phone, no pictures, no txts but I guess they could have been deleted. The last record of a phone call was Mid December..

Cheers guys...glad I found this website !


----------



## happyman64

Perils
All is not lost.

No matter what happens take care of yourself.

That means rest, liquids and food.

Stay calm and get to the bottom of her trash.

HM


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

well.. turns out i didn't test the keylogger well enough.. turned out it was only a trial and the license expired..crap.. struggling to find another good free one...ideas ?

Just had a good session on her laptop though.. printed off a few emails... extra information I have gleaned is

where he works
where his wife works...

oh she just got home.. better go


----------



## cpacan

Desktopshark works fine for me. It's at 14.95 USD.


----------



## RAN

perilsoftheinternet said:


> well.. turns out i didn't test the keylogger well enough.. turned out it was only a trial and the license expired..crap.. struggling to find another good free one...ideas ?
> 
> Just had a good session on her laptop though.. printed off a few emails... extra information I have gleaned is
> 
> where he works
> where his wife works...
> 
> oh she just got home.. better go


Spyrix free keylogger, try this.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

ok ITS DONE

Confronted her... it was a long discussion which I won't dictate back but the end of it is as follows:

she won't agree to non-contact as he is just a "friend". I've told her its one way or the other, NC or finished.

She has just left to go and stay the night at her Mum and Dads. Told her to come back tomorrow with a NC decision or not.

So thats it I guess..phew feel better now it is all out in the open.

Do I phone her Dad now and explain everything ?


----------



## anchorwatch

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Do I phone her Dad now and explain everything ?


Yes! 

Contact OMW too!

Hold firm.

Get this book and let her read it too.

Here's the site, there's a quiz to take there.

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


----------



## Cdelta02

Yes. Now that its done, get the truth out. Put the affair into friction as someone said on another thread. Expose to her parents and OMW.


----------



## JCD

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Do I phone her Dad now and explain everything ?


Duh! I mean 'yes'.

By giving your side (with a few emails and 'art photos' they shared as accompaniment) you put her in the position where she has to explain to Mum and Da why a HUSBAND is less important to her than some flash bastard in London who is a 'friend'.

I wish her luck in that endeavor.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

perilsoftheinternet said:


> she won't agree to non-contact as he is just a "friend". I've told her its one way or the other, NC or finished.


So to her a "friend" is worth losing her marriage over?

You have an opportunity to go all alpha and not only have her give up the OM, but come groveling at your feet begging you to forgive her. Not likely you’ll do it (most people won’t) but it does work.

Tell her you changed your mind, R is off the table and you are moving forward with a D regardless of her NC decision. This will give you control and cause her to panic once the reality sits in (sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes a while depending on how deep in the A they are in).

WS’s tend to freak out when they lose control. Right now you have been letting her call the shots and giving her a chance when she doesn’t deserve it. This lets her believe she can get away with whatever because she believes you are bluffing. If you start calling the shots yourself she will start to fall in line.


----------



## cpacan

ArmyofJuan said:


> So to her a "friend" is worth losing her marriage over?
> 
> You have an opportunity to go all alpha and not only have her give up the OM, but come groveling at your feet begging you to forgive her. Not likely you’ll do it (most people won’t) but it does work.
> 
> Tell her you changed your mind, R is off the table and you are moving forward with a D regardless of her NC decision. This will give you control and cause her to panic once the reality sits in (sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes a while depending on how deep in the A they are in).
> 
> WS’s tend to freak out when they lose control. Right now you have been letting her call the shots and giving her a chance when she doesn’t deserve it. This lets her believe she can get away with whatever because *she believes you are bluffing*. If you start calling the shots yourself she will start to fall in line.


Exactly this. Why does she need a day to consider whether to seize contact with OM or loose her marriage? You did well but could have been more clear. "If you walk out that door now, don't come back".

Use the time to write down your NUTs, Non-negotionable-Un-alterable Terms for being in a relationship with her. Then stick to them, enforce them firmly. I can almost promise it will work - if not, I think you have lost her anyway.

Good luck and stay calm (but firm).


----------



## JCD

ArmyofJuan said:


> So to her a "friend" is worth losing her marriage over?
> 
> You have an opportunity to go all alpha and not only have her give up the OM, but come groveling at your feet begging you to forgive her. Not likely you’ll do it (most people won’t) but it does work.
> 
> Tell her you changed your mind, R is off the table and you are moving forward with a D regardless of her NC decision. This will give you control and cause her to panic once the reality sits in (sometimes immediately, sometimes it takes a while depending on how deep in the A they are in).
> 
> WS’s tend to freak out when they lose control. Right now you have been letting her call the shots and giving her a chance when she doesn’t deserve it. This lets her believe she can get away with whatever because she believes you are bluffing. If you start calling the shots yourself she will start to fall in line.


Hee hee.

"Hello, Dad (FIL). I know she doesn't want to talk to me. I wanted to know when Sheila would be around so I can have the process server stop by with the divorce paperwork. Oh...she didn't tell you about her sending love letters to some guy in London? Well, that's not my story to tell. If you could just text me when to have the papers dropped off..."

See if that flushes the pigeons.


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> ok ITS DONE
> 
> Confronted her... it was a long discussion which I won't dictate back but the end of it is as follows:
> 
> she won't agree to non-contact as he is just a "friend". I've told her its one way or the other, NC or finished.
> 
> She has just left to go and stay the night at her Mum and Dads. Told her to come back tomorrow with a NC decision or not.
> 
> So thats it I guess..phew feel better now it is all out in the open.
> 
> Do I phone her Dad now and explain everything ?



Yes, tell her parents right now, while she is still on her way there and before she has a chance to tell them something else.

No contact has to mean just that and including you being able to verify with passwords and access to her phone bill.

You are doing a good job. Stay focused. 

PS: Did she take her laptop and phone with her?


----------



## walkonmars

Sorry - as others have said you did ok but left a loose end or two.

If you didn't contact OMW do in now. 
If your wife comes back with NC letter in hand how will you know she hasn't already called him and told him she's being forced to write a NC letter but she will arrange to contact him later.

You told her it was a choice right? the choice was drop the friend or drop the marriage? She isn't sure if she wants to drop you or not? That's all I would need to know.


----------



## JCD

walkonmars said:


> Sorry - as others have said you did ok but left a loose end or two.
> 
> If you didn't contact OMW do in now.
> If your wife comes back with NC letter in hand how will you know she hasn't already called him and told him she's being forced to write a NC letter but she will arrange to contact him later.
> 
> You told her it was a choice right? the choice was drop the friend or drop the marriage? She isn't sure if she wants to drop you or not? That's all I would need to know.


That is one of the problems with exposure et al. One is 'forcing' one's spouse to choose you. How insulting!

I would examine all future behavior in this regard. Just because she may (MAY) pull back from the brink this time does not mean that she is worth keeping in the long run.


----------



## KanDo

Glad you confronted and I hope yu immediately called FIL and the OM's wife to inform them. If you want your wife, you need to go nuclear NOW.

Good luck. We are here for you. See an attorney ASAP.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

I couldn't have made it any clearer believe me..NC or thats it..

I've just found OMW work phone number on the internet...phoned and got voicemail out of office message ... didn't leave a message

changed online banking logon details..


----------



## KanDo

Leave a message. Have her call you.


----------



## tom67

Leave a message she probably like most if you don't recognize a number don't usually answer it jmo.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

ok..my wife doesn't know I can see her inbox.. she just got this email from him.. so straight away she has made contact with him

"<Wifesname>, my love

Is this going to end -- first me, now you! So I am now out in the open with a bigbang -- I was so hoping that at least you will be spared this experience! I am so sorry...

I will be here for you, for whatever good this is..if you need to talk now, call me, I will answer.. please be strong and stay calm..if you can.. i know how it feels !

My heart is with you

Love you "


Not the sort of email he would send if they knew I could see them I don't think... Can't believe if they have both been outed that they have the nerve to carry on ..lol.. how my eyes are being opened.. perhaps that is why his wife is not at work.. I'll have to try phoning OMW again tomorrow to see if it is out in the open. I think he's lying about that, I bet its not out in the open his end at all..

So even though I couldn't have been more specific about NC my wife ignored me.. decision made then.. wish there could have been a happier end to this thread.. !


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

tom67 said:


> Leave a message she probably like most if you don't recognize a number don't usually answer it jmo.


It didn't even ring.. straight to voicemail


----------



## JCD

This is like an Intensive Care unit. You wouldn't be here if there wasn't already a crisis...and most crisises don't have happy endings.

Luckily, most of our patients can walk on to different (if not happier) lives.

You seem to be doing pretty much everything you can do.

Have you given any thought of forwarding that email to her father when she tries to gaslight him about 'he is just this friend. My husband is just a controlling horrible ogre..."?


----------



## tom67

perilsoftheinternet said:


> It didn't even ring.. straight to voicemail


Leave a message today don't wait.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

JCD said:


> This is like an Intensive Care unit. You wouldn't be here if there wasn't already a crisis...and most crisises don't have happy endings.
> 
> Luckily, most of our patients can walk on to different (if not happier) lives.
> 
> You seem to be doing pretty much everything you can do.
> 
> Have you given any thought of forwarding that email to her father when she tries to gaslight him about 'he is just this friend. My husband is just a controlling horrible ogre..."?


I could forward it on.. if I do that my wife will know I can see her inbox though


----------



## Wanting1

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I could forward it on.. if I do that my wife will know I can see her inbox though


I'd hold it close to the chest for now. See what OMW has to say. She may have proof herself.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

OMW voicemail said she would be back in the office Jan 2nd, yesterday, so it could be that she hasn't returned to work after the "big bang"

And yes, the email inbox is my only view into wifes world at the moment so I'm not giving knowledge away..

regarding OM email. its strange that in all his emails over New Year etc that I saw, none of them mentioned any "outing" or such with his wife..


----------



## JCD

perilsoftheinternet said:


> It didn't even ring.. straight to voicemail


Fed Ex copies of the emails. Give a contact number and email she can respond to.


----------



## JCD

perilsoftheinternet said:


> her voicemail said she would be back in the office Jan 2nd, yesterday, so it could be that she hasn't returned to work after the "big bang"
> 
> And yes, the email inbox is my only view into her world at the moment so I'm not giving knowledge away..


Any idea on how SHE discovered things?

And one thing. If HE contacts your wife, that is not her breaking NC. It is HER contacting him. She can't control what he does.

Has she responded?


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

JCD said:


> Any idea on how SHE discovered things?
> 
> And one thing. If HE contacts your wife, that is not her breaking NC. It is HER contacting him. She can't control what he does.
> 
> Has she responded?


OM email said " first me, now you! " so my wife must have contacted him otherwise OM wouldn't have known about todays confrontation. I understand she can't control him


----------



## Chaparral

perilsoftheinternet said:


> OMW voicemail said she would be back in the office Jan 2nd, yesterday, so it could be that she hasn't returned to work after the "big bang"
> 
> And yes, the email inbox is my only view into wifes world at the moment so I'm not giving knowledge away..
> 
> regarding OM email. its strange that in all his emails over New Year etc that I saw, none of them mentioned any "outing" or such with his wife..


He was outed, hard to say when. His wife thinks he ended it.


----------



## tom67

JCD said:


> Fed Ex copies of the emails. Give a contact number and email she can respond to.


Please do this!


----------



## Chaparral

You need to find out if this is an EA or a PA. Keep your sources intact. The OMW may know. Can you go visit her personally? That would bring this all into his back yard.


----------



## Chaparral

tom67 said:


> Please do this!


If you do they will find other ways to talk. Just tell her what you know and warn her not to discuss details.


----------



## KanDo

chapparal said:


> You need to find out if this is an EA or a PA. Keep your sources intact. The OMW may know. Can you go visit her personally? That would bring this all into his back yard.


No you don't. I agree with keeping your sources intact. Simply copy the mesage and email it to yourself.

Have you exposed her to family and friends yet?


----------



## Wazza

You have your answer, between his email and her response to you. She knows what she is doing.

So if she says "ok" to no contact, how do you plan to enforce it? You have to assume she will not tell you the truth about anything.


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> It didn't even ring.. straight to voicemail


So call back now and leave a message...
"Hello, my name is Mr Bond and I need to talk to you urgently regarding your husband's affair with my wife. Please call me on xxx xxxxxx. Thank you."

It is clear from what you say that they do not know you can read the emails between them - keep it that way and just print them off. From what he says, I'd bet money that this has not been exposed at his end. Has she replied to his mail that you can see?


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I could forward it on.. if I do that my wife will know I can see her inbox though


Good point. For the moment, just hit the 'print' button. Make sure you include the headers on the email.


----------



## Wazza

Sorry, horrible thought. 

Phone her parents and check that she really went there.


----------



## anchorwatch

Did you call FIL yet?


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Louise7 said:


> So call back now and leave a message...
> "Hello, my name is Mr Bond and I need to talk to you urgently regarding your husband's affair with my wife. Please call me on xxx xxxxxx. Thank you."
> 
> It is clear from what you say that they do not know you can read the emails between them - keep it that way and just print them off. From what he says, I'd bet money that this has not been exposed at his end. Has she replied to his mail that you can see?


Hi Louise

I can't see her sent folder so don't know if she has replied, I have to assume she has/will , She won't able to do much at the moment at her parents with a 8 year old and 3 year old to get to bed... I expect more emails later tonight

I really don't want to leave a message on OMW voicemail, she might go straight to her husband before I can give her the true story of what I know.

And yes I do know she is at her parents because my 6 year old is here with me and phoned 20 minutes ago to speak to his older brother and she is there..

I havn't informed FIL yet.. I don't know whats holding me back.. can someone explain the benefit of that.. in my head I think it would just alienate my wife further... I was thinking I'd speak to him tomorrow face to face.

Its funny, I'm normally a very emotional person.. I've not cried once today.. its all quite matter of fact, black and white.. I'm sure the tears will come at some point, it wouldn't be normal if they don't.. I try not to think about the impact a seperation would have on the children.. I can't cope with that at the moment.. but as discussed unless I truely believe there is NC I'll stick to my guns.. 

sorry I'm babbling away...

I have thought of doing the following, probably a bad idea but I'd like your thoughts

composing an email with a few links to information about Emotional affairs and why NC afterwards is so important
Also sending her a like to marriage counselling information to show we can get help

The idea of the above being, to try and help her realise it was actually an affair and why I'm being so stubborn about NC, even though I explained it clearly enough today.

cheers everyone, without this thread I'd be in a much worse place !!


----------



## Almostrecovered

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I havn't informed FIL yet.. I don't know whats holding me back.. can someone explain the benefit of that.. in my head I think it would just alienate my wife further... I was thinking I'd speak to him tomorrow face to face.


initially it will tick her off, you will be bursting her fantasy bubble and she is scrambling to protect it.

you expose to help kill the affair, because killing the affair is priority #1 before you can make your next decision (and if you can't kill the affair then it is obvious she has made the choice for you)


----------



## Amplexor

perilsoftheinternet said:


> I havn't informed FIL yet.. I don't know whats holding me back.. can someone explain the benefit of that.. in my head I think it would just alienate my wife further... I was thinking I'd speak to him tomorrow face to face.


At this point you are still waiting on your wife to give you a yes or no on going non contact. Wait until after she has given you a no before you expose. To do so now would be premature IMO. Exposure is the nuclear option and should be used only after the WS has rejected behaving is an acceptable way. IF she is still on the fence as to what direction she should take, this could back fire.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Amplexor said:


> At this point you are still waiting on your wife to give you a yes or no on going non contact. Wait until after she has give you a no before you expose. To do so now would be premature IMO. Exposure is the nuclear option and should be used only after the WS has rejected behaving is an acceptable way. IF she is still on the fence as to what direction she should take, this could back fire.


Your on my wavelength.. exposure will happen tomorrow if I don't get the answers I want... It won't be pleasant but then again , none of this is !

today must have been a shock for her, tonight is the time she needs to gather her thoughts

Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

2asdf2 said:


> You are in a very tough spot. My heart is with you.
> 
> When you give ultimatums, you follow through, or you look like a chump.
> 
> Did you not mean what you said?.......... Then acknowledge it and look like a chump.
> 
> Did you mean what you said?......... Then follow through, or look like a chump.
> 
> If you don't follow through your credibility is shot.
> 
> Shot for the long run. This sets a serious precedent.
> 
> You backed yourself into a corner. You need to find the courage to fight your way out of it.
> 
> .



I will follow through, its over if I don't get NC agreement..


----------



## tom67

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Your on my wavelength.. exposure will happen tomorrow if I don't get the answers I want... It won't be pleasant but then again , none of this is !
> 
> today must have been a shock for her, tonight is the time she needs to gather her thoughts
> 
> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


Contact the omw. That should be your first priority then talk to fil.


----------



## Almostrecovered

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


it usually falls on deaf ears since logic isn't in the WS script, perhaps save it if she decides to end the affair


----------



## Louise7

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Hi Louise
> 
> I can't see her sent folder so don't know if she has replied, I have to assume she has/will , She won't able to do much at the moment at her parents with a 8 year old and 3 year old to get to bed... I expect more emails later tonight
> 
> I really don't want to leave a message on OMW voicemail, she might go straight to her husband before I can give her the true story of what I know.
> 
> And yes I do know she is at her parents because my 6 year old is here with me and phoned 20 minutes ago to speak to his older brother and she is there..
> 
> I havn't informed FIL yet.. I don't know whats holding me back.. can someone explain the benefit of that.. in my head I think it would just alienate my wife further... I was thinking I'd speak to him tomorrow face to face.
> 
> Its funny, I'm normally a very emotional person.. I've not cried once today.. its all quite matter of fact, black and white.. I'm sure the tears will come at some point, it wouldn't be normal if they don't.. I try not to think about the impact a seperation would have on the children.. I can't cope with that at the moment.. but as discussed unless I truely believe there is NC I'll stick to my guns..
> 
> sorry I'm babbling away...
> 
> I have thought of doing the following, probably a bad idea but I'd like your thoughts
> 
> composing an email with a few links to information about Emotional affairs and why NC afterwards is so important
> Also sending her a like to marriage counselling information to show we can get help
> 
> The idea of the above being, to try and help her realise it was actually an affair and why I'm being so stubborn about NC, even though I explained it clearly enough today.
> 
> cheers everyone, without this thread I'd be in a much worse place !!


No need to apologise. I would not send her links to anything. It makes you look 'needy.' I know it's rough but you have set out your terms for even considering reconcilitation and that's no contact. As for seeing an MC, that's something for the future. She first has to agree to end the affair otherwise it's a pointless waste of your time and money. And making her see this is an affair? She knows it is, that's why she's hidden it from you. 

I would still contact your father in law this evening, maybe after the kids are in bed. Make it clear it's him you want to speak to, not her.

Good luck.


----------



## Wazza

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Your on my wavelength.. exposure will happen tomorrow if I don't get the answers I want... It won't be pleasant but then again , none of this is !
> 
> today must have been a shock for her, tonight is the time she needs to gather her thoughts
> 
> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


I wouldn't send the email.

You know they have kissed and he has used the L word to her. Based on this, "just friends" is not a credible defence.
If she agrees to NC, you need to figure out how to enforce it. If she doesn't agree, she is making her choice and you must make yours.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

tom67 said:


> Contact the omw. That should be your first priority then talk to fil.


Yes will phone again first thing tomorrow morning and hopefully she'll be in work.. bet she would be interested to know that there has been emails sent today, especially if they have had confrontation and he's told her the affair is finished...


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Can I go and have a beer now ? I think I deserve one after today !


----------



## Almostrecovered

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Can I go and have a beer now ? I think I deserve one after today !


keep it under two getting drunk is a big ol' no no right now, if you dont have that sort of restraint then make it easier by having none


----------



## tom67

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Can I go and have a beer now ? I think I deserve one after today !


Have 2 beers


----------



## anchorwatch

She already knows she has stepped outside the marriage and is in an affair. That's evident by the OM's email.

Don't send her anything until she considers R. She will perceive you as weak in your resolve. If she chooses R there will be plenty of books, links and counseling to repair the marriage on both your parts.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

2asdf2 said:


> You don't have it already!
> 
> She contacted him after your speech. According to you.
> 
> Now you are negotiating terms. (or about to start)



God this is hard...

I know what you are saying... she never agreed to NC though before she left .. if she had agreed, gone to her parents and the contacted him that would be slightly different. 

I know deep down the fact she didn't agree to NC straight away says probably all I need to know and I need to face up to that fact..

Off to get a beer and luckily there is only 1 in the fridge so I can't go mad !!


----------



## Amplexor

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


Probably a mute now. At this point she is either in full denial of what the relationship is or has come to accept it. Being told you are wrong doesn't usually wash well with others especially in this situation.

As far as exposure goes, your wife may be vacillating at this point. So consider carefully before you pull that arrow from your quiver. That is a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle. Since OM's wife is already in the know exposure may have minimal impact. He already knows he's in deep **** and so does your wife. Make absolutely sure you feel your wife will not turn with out this option before doing it. I know I fly in the face of the common advice given on this subject but then again I woke to my FWW wrapped around me like a warm blanket this morning. Good luck.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Sorry what does this mean ?

"your wife my be vacillating at this point"


----------



## Almostrecovered

vacillate- : to waver in mind, will, or feeling : hesitate in choice of opinions or courses


----------



## Amplexor

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Sorry what does this mean ?
> 
> "your wife my be vacillating at this point"


Emotionally torn between OM and her marriage. She will have to go through a decision process one way or the other.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

2asdf2.. you are right , it was the former of the two ! and I know what that means and the implications.... she has made her decision !


----------



## Voiceofreason

Just a thought: OM's email may have been meant for you to see. It may be a ruse to keep you from contacting his wife by persuading you that she already knows about the affair....


----------



## 3putt

Voiceofreason said:


> Just a thought: OM's email may have been meant for you to see. It may be a ruse to keep you from contacting his wife by persuading you that she already knows about the affair....


It certainly wouldn't be the first time this has happened.


----------



## Almostrecovered

"voiceofparanoia"

pretty unlikely, but regardless he is still trying to contact her


----------



## Almostrecovered

especially since they use more damning evidence like "love"


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

oh i don't think i mentioned this earlier.. our confrontation.. I recorded the whole thing and tomorrow's discussion will be recorded as well... it might come in useful..


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Voiceofreason said:


> Just a thought: OM's email may have been meant for you to see. It may be a ruse to keep you from contacting his wife by persuading you that she already knows about the affair....


The same thought crossed my mind..unlikely but 
it will be interested to hear what OMW has to say when I speak to her


----------



## bfree

perilsoftheinternet said:


> oh i don't think i mentioned this earlier.. our confrontation.. I recorded the whole thing and tomorrow's discussion will be recorded as well... it might come in useful..


That might be the smartest thing you've done yet!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ngonza

All this makes me sick to my STOMACH after you question her..it wont stop the mistrust & all tricks that come to your mind. You think you are going crazy over & over everyday you will not put it too rest in your head! Im sorry to tell you this. I only had gut feelings he was or is with someone. I don't have proof! But 20yrs & 9 married is enough. Everyone does react the same way when someone you EFFEN LOVED SO MUCH HURT YOU! Whether in the arms of another, kissed or not or even went through it all! It will HURT INSIDE AND OUT! If you forgive you wont forget. I just analyzed over days trying to figure out why did his Tshirts smell under his arm like perfume? Believe you me I know my scent and his deoderantS! It wasnt until He asked me to lay next to him..that it hit me..someone laid just as I did and left her scent there many times ON HIS TSHIRTS.. Now confronting him on Jan 1st in tears.. AFTER A wonderful holiday vacation. He wants to stay married BUT The Mistrust will never go away! I am frantic and delusional crazy need therapy he said, but wont admit or say sorry he has hurt me true or not true NO APOLOGIES! GOOD LUCK! I wish I can move on, or I am just waiting for his next move again.


----------



## Wazza

perilsoftheinternet said:


> 2asdf2.. you are right , it was the former of the two ! and I know what that means and the implications.... she has made her decision !


She has not yet agreed.

Of course she was going to contact him. First thing my wife's AP did after I called him was discuss it with her.

She is human.


----------



## Voiceofreason

Almostrecovered said:


> "voiceofparanoia"
> 
> pretty unlikely, but regardless he is still trying to contact her


I agree this is unlikely, but it is an added reason to go through with informing the wife. Not paranoid, just careful :smthumbup: The "she already knows" trick has been played and discovered in more than one scenario in this forum...


----------



## JCD

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Your on my wavelength.. exposure will happen tomorrow if I don't get the answers I want... It won't be pleasant but then again , none of this is !
> 
> today must have been a shock for her, tonight is the time she needs to gather her thoughts
> 
> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


When my wife tried to show that to me, I TOTALLY dismissed it! It is a waste of your time!

What I heard loud and clear was the crying 'I want a divorce!' THAT got my attention like nothing else did!

She does not believe your ultimatum...or she doesn't care. I can't help you with the later, but an ENFORCED ultimatum makes one...thoughtful, PARTICULARLY since you have blown up 'Happily Ever After' with the OM. Dad will constantly be looking at this guy as 'THIS is what you traded your husband for?' It takes the bloom right off the rose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JCD

perilsoftheinternet said:


> 2asdf2.. you are right , it was the former of the two ! and I know what that means and the implications.... she has made her decision !


Just recall people can change their minds. She is not in an objective place right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## krismimo

Peril,

I'm sorry your going through all of this and right now you sound as if you are still in shock, as you should be. As for "exposing" sometimes it is a waste of time, it can back fire and most often it does. Each situation is different and unique, however if you personally feel that it is the right thing to do then do it but also keep in mind that in doing so they might not react the way you think they might/ or should. If you are going to do the "exposure" thing please do not be surprised if the FIL & MIL still take her side because no matter how you look at it she is blood even if she is in the wrong. 

As for the OMW she might take him back or decide to reconcile it has happened, or she might toss him to the side. Just keep the perspective when it comes to exposure it's not always going to be in your favor. Good luck to you and I'm sorry you and your children are going through this.


----------



## perilsoftheinternet

Thanks krismimo... 

I must go to bed now and try and get some sleep before another big day tomorrow....

Thanks again everyone..


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> it usually falls on deaf ears since logic isn't in the WS script, perhaps save it if she decides to end the affair


She admits to feeling guilty, I do not see where it could hurt but it may have no effect at all.


----------



## Chaparral

Amplexor said:


> Emotionally torn between OM and her marriage. She will have to go through a decision process one way or the other.


I agree, giving an ultimatum and expecting an instant answer is going against human nature. No one wants to feel bossed and forced. They need to think it is their decision. Just like in sales.


----------



## Chaparral

Amplexor said:


> Probably a mute now. At this point she is either in full denial of what the relationship is or has come to accept it. Being told you are wrong doesn't usually wash well with others especially in this situation.
> 
> As far as exposure goes, your wife may be vacillating at this point. So consider carefully before you pull that arrow from your quiver. That is a genie that cannot be put back in the bottle. Since OM's wife is already in the know exposure may have minimal impact. He already knows he's in deep **** and so does your wife. Make absolutely sure you feel your wife will not turn with out this option before doing it. I know I fly in the face of the common advice given on this subject but then again I woke to my FWW wrapped around me like a warm blanket this morning. Good luck.


Supposedly, according to OM she knows of an affair. I believe she thinks it is over. OM is gaming your wife, that why he is claiming they need to cut it off but from her reaction she is considering taking it to the next level.

Right now she is caught and confused. Give her a bit of time to mull over all the ramifications of divorce, child custody etc.

Thats why I think sharing a little info may curtail the fog. Example, the statistics of the effects of divorce on children.


18 Shocking Children and Divorce Statistics


----------



## Wazza

chapparal said:


> Supposedly, according to OM she knows of an affair. I believe she thinks it is over. OM is gaming your wife, that why he is claiming they need to cut it off but from her reaction she is considering taking it to the next level.
> 
> Right now she is caught and confused. Give her a bit of time to mull over all the ramifications of divorce, child custody etc.
> 
> Thats why I think sharing a little info may curtail the fog. Example, the statistics of the effects of divorce on children.
> 
> 
> 18 Shocking Children and Divorce Statistics


I think she is being gamed as well. And falling for it hook line and sinker. The real test is how she feels and reacts when she realises what she has done.

But the blowup is in time. If she makes the decision now, it is with her eyes open.


----------



## Will_Kane

Voiceofreason said:


> Just a thought: OM's email may have been meant for you to see. It may be a ruse to keep you from contacting his wife by persuading you that she already knows about the affair....


Most likely either one of two things: 1-Other man's wife actually did find out, something at least, or 2-other man wants your wife to BELIEVE his wife found out, with the idea that she'll tell you that if she finally does admit what's going on.


----------



## Wazza

Will_Kane said:


> Most likely either one of two things: 1-Other man's wife actually did find out, something at least, or 2-other man wants your wife to BELIEVE his wife found out, with the idea that she'll tell you that if she finally does admit what's going on.


Or, he is setting up "All we have left is each other! Let's be together darling! Here is the key to my room..."

The possibilities are endless.


----------



## Will_Kane

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Well I didn't expect this... let me set the background
> 
> Been together 14 years, married 10 years, 3 beautiful kids.
> 
> Two nights ago I needed to find a document that I knew was in my wife's email but got more than I bargained for (this must be such a common starting statement )
> 
> I'll try and keep things brief. My wife got heavily into photography at the start of 2012 and joined a photo sharing website. As it turns out she "met" someone through this site and as far as I can tell have been emailing, speaking to each other for about 4 months. My wife hasn't worked since we had children so she has plenty of time at home for this. I think he lives in a seperate country although I'm not sure. It would explain the larger phone bills which she explained as the children using too much internet on her phone !
> 
> It makes sense now, her staying up late so frequently, being aggressive when I complain about her being on her laptop and the photo sharing website so much. I'd say she is drinking more as well
> 
> Since I found the email two nights ago I've read lots of emails, I can't believe she was stupid enough to leave them in her inbox !
> In many of them she declares her love for him, no mention of me in any of them although he does know she's married with kids.
> 
> *Has she met him : yes, once. About a month ago she told me she was going to see her brother for the day*, I didn't think it unusual. Anyhow she met him for the day and as far as I can tell *walked in the park, held hands and kissed*. I have a feeling he was briefly here on business.
> 
> It seems to me like it was *some sort of escapism for my wife*, something aside from normal reality.
> 
> 3 weeks ago was our 10th wedding anniversay, the day before she spoke to him on the phone and *posted a romantic picture on the photo sharing website with a quote something like, "for the one I love"*
> She even emailed him on the day of our anniversay when we'd got rid of the children and were about to go out for dinner.
> Now I wish I hadn't booked our anniversary treat for the end of January, a long weekend in Venice !
> 
> Anyhow, *in the last week the emails have become more of a reality in that they can never be together *( I guess because of distance ) and that they will remain just friends. He said he will phone her in January.
> 
> So my minds a mess... as is common I guess *I'm worried about the consequences of confrontation*, I'm wondering what I did wrong
> 
> In honesty we've not been getting on great for a while, maybe now I know the reason. I havn't confronted her yet or told anyone.
> 
> One side of me thinks if their relationship as such is over maybe with time I can forgive her but right now I'm hurting bad.. the trouble is I know going forward everytime I see her on the laptop I'll have doubts (even though I have access to all her email accounts)..whats a marriage without trust ?
> 
> As a side point the next 3-6 months at work are going to be extremely busy and probably stressful so this is the last thing I need.
> 
> I guess deep down I know the following:
> 
> 
> I can't wait and see what happens, I have to confront her and tell her that I know
> I love her and want to find a way out of this mess if possible
> Counselling might be the way to go
> What a nightmare, Happy New Year !
> 
> Any thoughts appreciated


Divest yourself of any notion that she legitimately believed she was JUST FRIENDS and was DOING NOTHING WRONG. She lied to you and hid this from you at every turn, you already saw a lot in the emails, and that is only the tip of the iceberg.

You said in the past week their communication had fallen off and consisted of a realization that they could never be together. Many possibilities, two of which are: he is playing your wife, not happy she didn't have sex with him on his last visit, he is upping the stakes for his next visit OR his wife found out. They probably speak by phone and text each other in addition to the emails, so there could be a gap in what you think you know.

To me, it is a very bad sign that she would need time to think about whether to dump this guy forever or stay married to you. In my opinion, this is something she should be able to figure out pretty quickly, and I mean like five minutes, maybe an hour tops.

IF, and only IF, you keep pushing for a decision, what I think will happen is that she may SAY she is going to have no contact, but she won't actually mean it. Or stick to it.

Be prepared for when you talk to her tomorrow for her to say she needs more time to decide. She might tell you she loves you but is not in love with you and she needs some "time" and "space" to figure out what she wants. That is "cheater-speak." Translated, it means, "I really am 'in love' with the other man and would prefer him, but the future with him is uncertain right now and I don't want to give you up until I know I have a place to land with him."


----------



## Acabado

Talk to a lawyer, it will help you no matter what.
Your start position should be D and she's the only one with the power to stop you.


----------



## MattMatt

How's it going, Perils? Have you got hold of OMW, yet? By the way... some people haven't even started back to work after the Christmas break, yet. She might be on holiday, still. Or be sat at home, on compassionate leave, sobbing her heart out, having found her husband is a cheating POS. 

Leave her the message. After all, you are both in the same lifeboat...


----------



## walkonmars

Acabado said:


> Talk to a lawyer, it will help you no matter what.
> Your start position should be D and she's the only one with the power to stop you.


On scale #1:
She has babies with you, a 14 year history, a 10 year marriage.

On scale #2
She has a four month history with him, trades photos and emails, has had a single walk in the park with him

She sees these two scales as balanced at best and may be leaning in favor of #2.

Just remember, YOU are no one's #2


----------



## happyman64

Good for you.

Call his wife tomorrow morning and ask her to lunch or visit her at work. 

Give her the details.

Kill the affair.

Be interesting to see if she even nows about your wife.

Good Luck.

I bet her husband tips his wife off that a crazy man will be contacting her.....


----------



## jim123

She will lie to tomorrow. Given the fact she did not react toward you when you found out means she does not love you. 

You should call off meeting her. Tell her to stay at her parents. You need to work on you. She will not stop. She gave you her true answer when she left.

Go see an attorney. The only way to save your marriage is to destroy it. She will be with him when he comes in.


----------



## KanDo

Perils,

The purpose of exposureis to rip the fantasy veil from the affair and have your wife see the stark reality. I believe it is an important tool IF and only if, you want to reconcile. If she had brought the affair to you and was remorseful, then I might agree with keeping it quiet. I disagree with the idea that exposure may backfire. I believe it just accelerates a separation/divorce that was in the cards already.

Please see an attorney today and learn your rigts and file. The divorce filing makes the consequences real to the WS.

I hope you have been able to contact the OM's wife and also have clued your FIL in to the issue.

Good luck.


----------



## Chaparral

Generally, exposure used to break up an affair. It is dangerous to blow up bridges if it is , in fact, unnecessary.

What worries me is he hasn't been back today. Hopefully his family is back and he hasn't had time.


----------



## 3putt

KanDo said:


> I believe it is an important tool IF and only if, you want to reconcile.


Respectfully disagree. Exposure is to get the real truth out in the open, not the _truth_ that has been manufactured by the adultery partners to ease the transition stage and justify their behavior.

Yes, exposure does expose the fantasy for the sleaze it is, and it should be employed whether or not the goal is reconciliation.


----------



## JCD

KanDo said:


> Perils,
> 
> The purpose of exposureis to rip the fantasy veil from the affair and have your wife see the stark reality. I believe it is an important tool IF and only if, you want to reconcile. If she had brought the affair to you and was remorseful, then I might agree with keeping it quiet. I disagree with the idea that exposure may backfire. I believe it just accelerates a separation/divorce that was in the cards already.
> 
> Please see an attorney today and learn your rigts and file. The divorce filing makes the consequences real to the WS.
> 
> I hope you have been able to contact the OM's wife and also have clued your FIL in to the issue.
> 
> Good luck.


I have to disagree as well.

First, and foremost, I believe people need to own what they do. Too many people want to 'nice' the past misdeeds of others. In the old days, there was no internet, there were no credit checks. People had to actually TALK about who and what the people you dealt with were like. Women were MUCH MUCH more protective about their reputations because they lived with the consequences. Men who were cheats (in any sense of the term) could find their livelihoods and prospects RUINED by not being someone trustworthy.

People, in short, behaved better. Not perfectly but they made an attempt.

If she wants to cheat, she gets to be a cheater to, if not the world at large, to her parents. And since it hasn't turned into a full blown affair at least thus far, this exposure might STOP IT.

But additionally, people, to protect their sense of self, will do disreputable things. Like lie. 'Perils is an abusive bully who hid it from the rest of you, but I had to wear long clothes to hide the bruises.' Now MAYBE she has enough character to avoid that...but does he want to count on that? Some other nugget of truth blown up to epic proportions might be used instead to white wash their failed relationship.

So out of self defense for HIS reputation, he might want to get the truth out there.


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## Count of Monte Cristo

Machiavelli said:


> The plain and simple explanation is quite straightforward. She's saying that sex in the park, or the bj in the car, makes her feel guilty, even though it shouldn't, because _"how could something be wrong, when it feels so right." _


:iagree:

I don't think you can conclude from her statement about not doing anything wrong physically that she and OM did not have sex. True love after all is never wrong. Which brings to mind a classic song from my youth:

Luther Ingram - If Loving You Is Wrong - YouTube


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## theroad

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Your on my wavelength.. exposure will happen tomorrow if I don't get the answers I want... It won't be pleasant but then again , none of this is !
> 
> today must have been a shock for her, tonight is the time she needs to gather her thoughts
> 
> Any thoughts on whether I should send the email I mentioned in my last post ?


Exposure never works when done as a threat. You must expose fully, now, because exposure is the right and the best thing to do.


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## theroad

perilsoftheinternet said:


> Can I go and have a beer now ? I think I deserve one after today !


Waiting a day to expose does not make one worthy of anything.


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## theroad

krismimo said:


> Peril,
> 
> I'm sorry your going through all of this and right now you sound as if you are still in shock, as you should be. As for "exposing" sometimes it is a waste of time, it can back fire and most often it does. Each situation is different and unique, however if you personally feel that it is the right thing to do then do it but also keep in mind that in doing so they might not react the way you think they might/ or should. If you are going to do the "exposure" thing please do not be surprised if the FIL & MIL still take her side because no matter how you look at it she is blood even if she is in the wrong.
> 
> As for the OMW she might take him back or decide to reconcile it has happened, or she might toss him to the side. Just keep the perspective when it comes to exposure it's not always going to be in your favor. Good luck to you and I'm sorry you and your children are going through this.


I have never seen exposure back fire and I have been on infidelity boards over 8 years.


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## Wazza

JCD said:


> I have to disagree as well.
> 
> First, and foremost, I believe people need to own what they do. Too many people want to 'nice' the past misdeeds of others. In the old days, there was no internet, there were no credit checks. People had to actually TALK about who and what the people you dealt with were like. Women were MUCH MUCH more protective about their reputations because they lived with the consequences. Men who were cheats (in any sense of the term) could find their livelihoods and prospects RUINED by not being someone trustworthy.
> 
> People, in short, behaved better. Not perfectly but they made an attempt.
> 
> If she wants to cheat, she gets to be a cheater to, if not the world at large, to her parents. And since it hasn't turned into a full blown affair at least thus far, this exposure might STOP IT.
> 
> But additionally, people, to protect their sense of self, will do disreputable things. Like lie. 'Perils is an abusive bully who hid it from the rest of you, but I had to wear long clothes to hide the bruises.' Now MAYBE she has enough character to avoid that...but does he want to count on that? Some other nugget of truth blown up to epic proportions might be used instead to white wash their failed relationship.
> 
> So out of self defense for HIS reputation, he might want to get the truth out there.


To me, the content of the last message quoted combined with the wife's refusal to give up OM make it a full blown affair. 

I don't agree exposure is always good. Exposing wide can get the exposer seen as a nut job. And if friends of mine are fighting, I don't want to be asked to take sides. I will assume neither if them is giving me unbiased truth.

I would expose to FIL since I don't think they had had sex when she left, and if he knows he might be an effective chaperone. Might.

Perils, any updates? Are you ok?


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## Wazza

theroad said:


> I have never seen exposure back fire and I have been on infidelity boards over 8 years.


It backfired for me..long story and unusual. I have seen many instances on TAM where the WS used it to paint BS as a nut job and so justify ending the relationship.


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## cpacan

Wazza said:


> It backfired for me..long story and unusual. I have seen many instances on TAM where the WS used it to paint BS as a nut job and so justify ending the relationship.


This is pure speculation on my hand, but I would assume it had ended anyway then.


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## Wazza

cpacan said:


> This is pure speculation on my hand, but I would assume it had ended anyway then.


In my case? No.


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## cpacan

Wazza said:


> In my case? No.


 I guess I referred to the other TAM-cases then


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## RWB

3putt said:


> Respectfully disagree. Exposure is to get the real truth out in the open, not the _truth_ that has been manufactured by the adultery partners to ease the transition stage and justify their behavior.
> 
> Yes, exposure does expose the fantasy for the sleaze it is, and it should be employed whether or not the goal is reconciliation.


Exactly...The TRUTH... be known - far and wide.

Personally, I have no issues with exposure, as long as it's the truth, regardless of R or D. Whatever.

This argument that E will just run the WS right into the arms of AP has some basis, but so what. Think about this way... would you really want to R with your WS when you were just plan B anyway. If your WS has so little commitment that a day of owning the truth is so hurtful to them in light of their own actions, then you are better off knowing now than later.


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## Wazza

cpacan said:


> I guess I referred to the other TAM-cases then


Too lazy to go digging through threads, but certainly not always.

Particularly my impression is that broadcasting, eg thru Facebook, often doesn't work.

Lots of different circumstances, lots of variables. If you expose have a reason, and don't assume people will take your side.


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## JCD

The problem is that if you wait for 'she said' the BS can be blindsided and has to play catch up.

Friends won't take sides...but it's good that they know there ARE two sides.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wazza

JCD said:


> The problem is that if you wait for 'she said' the BS can be blindsided and has to play catch up.
> 
> Friends won't take sides...but it's good that they know there ARE two sides.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or you take the moral high ground and let the WS make them selves look bad with their frantic ravings. All depends on your audience and the nature of your spouse.

At the worst of it, I had my wife's friends apologising for things she had said behind my back, using this technique


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## walkonmars

Perils,
Everything turn out ok?


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## loveisforever

Will_Kane said:


> Divest yourself of any notion that she legitimately believed she was JUST FRIENDS and was DOING NOTHING WRONG. *She lied to you and hid this from you at every turn,* you already saw a lot in the emails, and that is only the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> You said in the past week their communication had fallen off and consisted of a realization that they could never be together. Many possibilities, two of which are: he is playing your wife, not happy she didn't have sex with him on his last visit, he is upping the stakes for his next visit OR his wife found out. They probably speak by phone and text each other in addition to the emails, so there could be a gap in what you think you know.
> 
> To me, it is a very bad sign that she would need time to think about whether to dump this guy forever or stay married to you. In my opinion, this is something she should be able to figure out pretty quickly, and I mean like five minutes, maybe an hour tops.
> 
> IF, and only IF, you keep pushing for a decision, what I think will happen is that she may SAY she is going to have no contact, but she won't actually mean it. Or stick to it.
> 
> Be prepared for when you talk to her tomorrow for her to say she needs more time to decide. She might tell you she loves you but is not in love with you and she needs some "time" and "space" to figure out what she wants. That is "cheater-speak." Translated, it means, "I really am 'in love' with the other man and would prefer him, but the future with him is uncertain right now and I don't want to give you up until I know I have a place to land with him."


"To me, it is a very bad sign that she would need time to think about whether to dump this guy forever or stay married to you. In my opinion, *this is something she should be able to figure out pretty quickly,* and I mean like five minutes, maybe an hour tops.

IF, and only IF, you keep pushing for a decision, what I think will happen is that s*he may SAY she is going to have no contact, but she won't actually mean it. Or stick to it."*

The fact that you did not decide on spot that "once she leave the door, the marriage is over" showed you were not up to the task yet. You need to improve in the next confrontation. Check if you are too emotional close to your old image of your wife to make a clear judgement. Very often a BS has hard time to grasp the reality because it needs changes in his mindset.


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## loveisforever

jim123 said:


> She will lie to tomorrow. Given the fact she did not react toward you when you found out means she does not love you.
> 
> You should call off meeting her. Tell her to stay at her parents. You need to work on you. She will not stop. She gave you her true answer when she left.
> 
> Go see an attorney. The only way to save your marriage is to destroy it. She will be with him when he comes in.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## WyshIknew

Op hasn't logged on for two weeks.

You're all talking to yourselves.


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