# New member



## couple4231 (Oct 16, 2018)

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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

You should ask a moderator to move this to the coping with infidelity section. But the general advice is going to be to divorce her.
@MattMatt


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

The more in depth advice would be to answer these questions.

1. What are you getting out of the relationship with her?
2. Are you happy being married to a woman that can cheat on you with ease?
3. Do you realize that past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior, so if you choose to stay with her she will likely do this again? 
4. What will you lose by divorce and what will she lose by divorce?
5. Have you exposed her to her family and friends? 
6. Will she give up her toxic friends that support her affairs? 
7. Does she want to be with you?
8. Are you just the safe option that she married for financial security?
9. What is your support network to get through this and make decisions about your future that you are happy with?
10. How long has it been since you found out and have you had enough time to process things clearly and think about your options? 
11. Are you in counseling and getting the help you need? 
12. How did you find out about the affairs and do you think you have the complete truth?
13. What can we do to help you through this?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@couple4231 Oh, boy! What a mess!

Couple's counselling might help, but only if our wife is genuinely contrite. And I doubt she is.

I can move this to the Coping With Infidelity section if you want.

It might be worth getting your daughter's DNA tested, even if just for your peace of mind.


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## couple4231 (Oct 16, 2018)

Please move it there if you can. I couldn't post there for some reason. I did a dna test with her and she is mine. I haven't done one with my son.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

wow.

this is a terrible story. so sad and sorry 4231.

bottom line: this woman is not marriage material and has no business being married.
moreover, she is callous and shameless.

how do people like this live with themselves?????


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

your wife is a player and you simply got duped and played the fool. She is a manipulator and portrayed herself as something she is not and you fell for it. 

You'll wise up and grow some tough skin in time and eventually you will see her for what she is and you'll take definitive action. It's just that your innocence and naïve, trusting and accommodating nature will have to be broken first. 

I have a few responses to some of your statements in bold below.




couple4231 said:


> The guy ended up breaking up with her early January 2015 out of guilt of infidelity. She still tried to get him back. She called him and texted him and he ignored her calls.
> 
> 
> *Trust me, he had no guilt. He had his fun and realized from the outset that she was a cheating ho. He had his fun with her and then he was done with her and threw her back. He had no guilt or conscience over this. It was purely pragmatic. He wanted some NSA tail, she was able and willing, he got his rocks off, he was done with her. She wanted to continue; he didn't. Simple as that. *
> ...


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

You should get a DNA for your son also (glad your D is yours!).
In all fairness, she has NO respect for you or your marriage.
She is obviously REALLY good at compartmentalizing. Think about this -- she spent time making a meme to MOCK her engagement ring -- your symbol of your love for her. What does that tell you?

I think you do NOT have the full story and realize how many other men she has had sex with. Do her friends know about this? Did they encourage this? They are obviously NO friend to your marriage or you.

Is the OM married? If so, you should expose to his wife.

I really don't see how you can move past this -- she is NOT worthy of you and her cheating is 100% on HER.
As YOU said yourself, she has been cheating your entire marriage -- WHY would you want to keep her? You can't possibly think she will stop this, do you?

VERY sorry that you finally found out who your wife really is - she is NOT your image of her.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I think your wife is a liar and a cheat. She's had sex with multiple men, lied about it, and pathetically chased them like a teenager "in love". Along the way she decided to make fun of you, the father of her children, as well. She still occasionally communicates with them--seriously?

You should file for divorce and have her served formally. Then you can see if she's willing to do the work on herself necessary to save the marriage. She hasn't "changed" in any substantial way--this is just her latest lie. The divorce process can be stopped at any point if she's able to do the work.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Now that you know she has lied to you at the drop of a hat, how do you know when she’s lying now?
You will never get past this. You may choose to live with it but you will never get past it. If things go great, it takes four to five years to recover from infidelity and stay married. Otherwise you will be in a false reconciliation. 

From what you have written it doesn’t sound like she knows you have found out about her. Is that correct? Or, she does know so what is her explanation?


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## couple4231 (Oct 16, 2018)

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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

couple4231 said:


> My wife and I have been together for 8 years now. We have 2 kids, age 2 and 7 and lived together the entire time we were together.
> 
> I recently found out that most of our relationship, even while we were engaged, I was being cheated on. The first time was right after my daughter was born in 2011. She had an emotional affair with the guy that she lost her virginity to for a few months right after she was born and continued talking to him right up until I found out what she was doing a few weeks ago. She swears that after the first few months of her emotional affair they were just good friends.
> 
> ...


She’s lying.

Your wife is a serial cheat incapable of any meaningful level of fidelity.

DNA the kids and file for divorce ASAP.


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## Knips (May 23, 2017)

Simple. She does not love you. You don't love somebody when you have an affair when you are just together. She stays for her kids and probably is sorry you have found out. She will keep on chasing other guys. What does she say is the reason for her cheating?


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## couple4231 (Oct 16, 2018)

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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

OP: at minimum you most DNA your kids, this way you'll have the certainty if they're really yours or not, since based on your posts you are most likely to remain married as a chump for her.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

couple4231 said:


> She knows. She broke down and told me everything after I started finding things.


Dawg, can you give us a couple of sentences why you think it in your best interest to stay with this chick?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Okay we can tell you what we would do but we are not you...we are not married to her...she clearly has demonstrated over and over again that she does not respect you relationship and you. So i ask you what do you want to do? seriously what do you want too do...because most of us would tell you to leave but rather then wasting our words i ask you again what do you want too do?


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I'm not understanding the message from your wife to you. Are you the guy that was going out partying without her while she stayed home or she is referring to her boyfriend going out and so she felt alone and got together with you? Who is the "him" she is referring to? 

Have you been a good husband? If not, it doesn't excuse her actions but would help piece together what happened.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

couple4231 said:


> In 2014 she went to New jersey to visit some friends and slept in the same bed with this guy, made out, but did not have sex.


Pardon me while I LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did she actually expect you to believe this? Cheaters are a hoot.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

couple4231 said:


> I don't know what to do.


Yes you do.


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## couple4231 (Oct 16, 2018)

a


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Whatever was making you hesitate marrying her while you were having children....listen to that guy. 

Never should have done it, my friend.

Thankfully, it's not been very long. 3-4 years. She is going to continue blaming you for her actions because she can't really face her issues. 

DNA your son. 

Your W is not marriage material. You knew it, too. Time to cut that off and just agree to co-parent.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I had a couple much like you two. She says to him that she is terrible, and lower than dog droppings for what she did. She fully expected him to disagree and forgive her. 

He agreed, said that she underestimated how very low she was, called her ****, *****, and a few more choice names. It shocked her. She was shaking, and said that he had never spoken to her like that. He looked her straight in the face and told her to get used to it. We are done. She starts screaming, “No no no no you are supposed to forgive me and take me back. He says to her, I don’t know how you thought I was going to let this drop, but I am leaving you. I am now free and single. 

You are going to screw other women? He goes no, I am going to replace you with an improvement. 

She tried every childish trick, til she was replaced, and an RO was taken out. She complained bitterly that she was sure he’d forgive and move back. She planned to attend their wedding and object. Her parents kept her from the ceremony. She still does not get it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

couple4231 said:


> My wife sent me this to explain the situation and why she did what she did. Please read.
> 
> "Let’s take into consideration that we met 4 months before getting pregnant with our first child. Only really “dated “ for about a week, moved in together right away. When I found out I was pregnant at 19 I tried to break up with him, after hearing him talk about abortion as an option. I was willing to take full responsibility and do my part without making him feel like he had to stay. He made me feel like he was going to be there and wanted to make me feel safe but the entire pregnancy I did everything alone, bought everything alone, spent nights alone while he was out having a good time with friends. I had to pick him up at 2 & 3 am while pregnant because he’d get too drunk. Never wanted to touch and feel my belly. I hated him and felt so alone. After our daughter was born I finally felt like I had some sort of purpose and caring for her became my priority. I suffered major postpartum depression while taking care of my 5 year old sister because my mother couldn’t take care of her due to her mental illnesses. I grew up taking care of my sister, never had a time to do anything I wanted. The first weeks of meeting him where the only normal times and memories I have of being a “carefree” child. I spent holidays alone with my daughter waiting for daddy to come home from his nights out with friends, but I am to blame for his drinking addiction and depression. I am the one to blame for not communicating. I am the selfish one! I’ve never felt loved or wanted especially in times when I needed to feel it the most. I had to build a wall to protect myself from being hurt or just not feel at all. I became selfish because I realized if I did t take care of myself no one else would. When someone else showed me affection I was so desperate and jumped right to it. Nothing I have done can ever be excused but this is what I believe pushed me to be the terrible person I was and I’m starting to believe that I am now still."



Blahblahblah blameshift, blameshift, blameshift. She just spewed a bunch of nothing smoke screen to "excuse" her betrayal. She has no idea what personal responsibility even is. I would tell her exactly that, and not nearly as nicely, if she was here. Disgusting.

OP, I am so sorry you have had to go through this. NONE of this is your fault. All of it is HER choice(s).

I have rarely read such selfish tripe.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

I am so sorry that you are in this situation 

Would like to ask one question

What would she have to do for you to say enough is enough and end the marriage?


Wish you nothing but the best of luck.
Stay strong


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

couple4231 said:


> I admit I drank a lot to get through a lot of the pain I felt from her. I was a work at home dad paying all of the bills and she spent all of hers on clothing where she worked. I could only afford one car back then when our daughter was born and she took it to go to work. I was severely depressed. I got yelled at a lot when she got home. My life was a mess. When my best friend came into town it was my only real escape to feel some type of a life outside of my dungeon. That's why I spent so much time out of the house. I was stuck and hated every day just trying to provide for my daughter.
> 
> Things are a lot different now. I don't drink, I'm very successful, and I wasn't drinking or being a bad fiance at during her second affair.


So, it's important to know that you are responsible for some of the problems in the relationship but you are NOT responsible for the affairs. There is a big difference here that you should recognize and understand. Being a crappy boyfriend or husband entitles her to seek couples counseling, ask you to improve, or to leave you, but it does not give her the right to have an affair. She doesn't seem to understand that because she's trying to pin the blame on you as justification for her actions. If you accept her blame she'll see you as weak and there will be a repeat affair at some point in the future. The only way to reconcile would be for her to figure out why she cheated (as opposed to her dealing with things in a respectful manner) and work on fixing those things in her. What she's trying to do by blame shifting is get you to agree to rug sweep the affairs so she doesn't have to deal with blow to her ego by accepting her actions came from her own free will.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

couple4231 said:


> She knows. She broke down and told me *everything *after I started finding things.


 Doubt it. She told you the least she had to tell you to corroborate the evidence you had.
I'll guarantee you she has not told you everything.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

This is a mess...
In her note, it is all about her...I, I, I, I, I. She has a family with a history of mental illness and this has given her a different perspective on life. She has many characteristics that are seen in a person who was sexually abused as a child. Is this a possibility?

She is a needy person and will likely respond to the person who she feels best meets her needs at the time--not necessarily you. She has resentment because she feels you neglected her during pregnancy. Resentment is not an excuse for infidelity. You, too, have guilt about your lack of mature actions in the past. Your name--couple4231--is indicative of your seeing yourself as 'needing her.' 

If you want a life filled with drama and suspicion, stay. If you have grown, expect responsibility, and want to set a high standard for your children, leave. Nothing to say, should a miracle occur and she demonstrates change over a LONG time, you couldn't reconsider remarriage, but I do not see this as a viable option.

Hard decisions--so sorry.....


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I mean no disrespect, but your question is how do I stay with my lying cheating wife and remain happy?

Simple. Stay. She can do the so called "work", you can do the mental game of pretending the old Marriage is dead and a new marriage takes its place, you can do all of it, but in then end, you stay.

Eat the crap sandwich. Be miserable, be happy, get over it, don't get over it, trigger for life, trigger less but still for life, it all involves you staying.

Having read your post, that is the path you are taking. It is your life. You are grown. Do it. Just be honest. Otherwise, leave the marriage. Co parent. Move on. Ask the real question and then deal with real answer and consequences. Good luck.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

I also don't understand her rambling message. Where was the explanation about the multiple men she had sex with 4 years ago? Yes, I know she's only admitting to one guy, but c'mon. This is the same person who posts memes mocking your marriage. She's correct that she is and was a terrible person. The admission of this was designed to gain your sympathy and elicit your rebuttal.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

couple4231 said:


> My wife sent me this to explain the situation and why she did what she did. Please read.
> 
> "Let’s take into consideration that we met 4 months before getting pregnant with our first child. Only really “dated “ for about a week, moved in together right away. When I found out I was pregnant at 19 I tried to break up with him, after hearing him talk about abortion as an option. I was willing to take full responsibility and do my part without making him feel like he had to stay. He made me feel like he was going to be there and wanted to make me feel safe but the entire pregnancy I did everything alone, bought everything alone, spent nights alone while he was out having a good time with friends. I had to pick him up at 2 & 3 am while pregnant because he’d get too drunk. Never wanted to touch and feel my belly. I hated him and felt so alone. After our daughter was born I finally felt like I had some sort of purpose and caring for her became my priority. I suffered major postpartum depression while taking care of my 5 year old sister because my mother couldn’t take care of her due to her mental illnesses. I grew up taking care of my sister, never had a time to do anything I wanted. The first weeks of meeting him where the only normal times and memories I have of being a “carefree” child. I spent holidays alone with my daughter waiting for daddy to come home from his nights out with friends, but I am to blame for his drinking addiction and depression. I am the one to blame for not communicating. I am the selfish one! I’ve never felt loved or wanted especially in times when I needed to feel it the most. I had to build a wall to protect myself from being hurt or just not feel at all. I became selfish because I realized if I did t take care of myself no one else would. When someone else showed me affection I was so desperate and jumped right to it. Nothing I have done can ever be excused but this is what I believe pushed me to be the terrible person I was and I’m starting to believe that I am now still."


Blah blah blah blah blah


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## Annabegins (Aug 10, 2018)

Sounds like your W is very sorry... sorry she got caught, sorry you found out, but not actually sorry about how any of this makes you feel or what it’s done to your marriage. Hope you find a way to heal.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Blah blah blah blah blah


To use an old phrase....right on.....

This blurb you got sent says absolutely nothing about why she cheated. It only blames everybody else in the damn world, except her, for it. Until she understands that NOBODY
"pushed her to be a terrible person".... she was a terrible person, and yes, she still is a terrible person, because of her own abominable selfishness and sinfulness..... there will be absolutely NO CHANGE in her behavior.

I also agree with the previous poster @Tatsuhiko ..... what she is saying to you is not any kind of real apology, and it does not reflect any change-of-heart on her part.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I also expect you to just sweep this under the rug and carry on. If so, let me give you some good advice. Never go home early without calling ahead to warn her.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

Look, 4231. Your wife is a serial cheater, she lies, and is a gas lighter. GusPolinski has it right. You
need to get rid of her, or you are in for more pain.


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## frigginlost (Oct 5, 2011)

couple4231 said:


> My wife sent me this to explain the situation and why she did what she did. Please read.
> 
> *"Let’s take into consideration* that we met 4 months before getting pregnant with our first child. Only really “dated “ for about a week, moved in together right away. When I found out I was pregnant at 19 I tried to break up with him, after hearing him talk about abortion as an option. I was willing to take full responsibility and do my part without making him feel like he had to stay. He made me feel like he was going to be there and wanted to make me feel safe but the entire pregnancy I did everything alone, bought everything alone, spent nights alone while he was out having a good time with friends. I had to pick him up at 2 & 3 am while pregnant because he’d get too drunk. Never wanted to touch and feel my belly. I hated him and felt so alone. After our daughter was born I finally felt like I had some sort of purpose and caring for her became my priority. I suffered major postpartum depression while taking care of my 5 year old sister because my mother couldn’t take care of her due to her mental illnesses. I grew up taking care of my sister, never had a time to do anything I wanted. The first weeks of meeting him where the only normal times and memories I have of being a “carefree” child. I spent holidays alone with my daughter waiting for daddy to come home from his nights out with friends, but I am to blame for his drinking addiction and depression. I am the one to blame for not communicating. I am the selfish one! I’ve never felt loved or wanted especially in times when I needed to feel it the most. I had to build a wall to protect myself from being hurt or just not feel at all. I became selfish because I realized if I did t take care of myself no one else would. When someone else showed me affection I was so desperate and jumped right to it. Nothing I have done can ever be excused but this is what I believe pushed me to be the terrible person I was and I’m starting to believe that I am now still."


Those of us who have been cheated on didn't even have to read any further than what is bolded above. I'm sorry to say, but your wife is a train wreck. There is no fixing her as she sees nothing wrong. Everything after those first words she wrote is nothing but classic gaslighting and blame shifting.

I have absolutely no doubt that you can stay together with her. She would have no problem with it at all. Why would she? She would just take her actions further underground (and yes, she will cheat on you again).

You're in a bad spot here because the only thing that you can do to get her respect, and to force herself to look within, is to divorce her. Any other action you choose will just validate what she has done as alright with you...


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

frigginlost said:


> the only thing that you can do to get her respect, and to force herself to look within, is to divorce her.


It's highly doubtful, to me, that divorcing her is going to cause her to respect you, or to look within. She is her own "god". She answers only to her own "higher authority", which is her.....


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

Oh geez, the last paragraph is like standard cheater lingo... How is it possible they literary use the same exact comments?


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

4321, since you say you found out recently, I have to assume the anger phase of what she has done hasn't really hit you yet.... It will, I would file for D no matter what, start sepaeating everything, get a good lawyer and build yourself a large brick wall between her, 
If you even consider staying w her you will need all the protection you can get..... Keep everything separate and the eject button very handy


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

couple4231 said:


> In 2014 she went to New jersey to visit some friends and slept in the same bed with this guy, made out, but did not have sex. *She made a meme for him showing her engagement ring mocking it the morning after.* I found these pictures in an album in her old computer along with screenshots of text messages they shared.


 This shows a level of disrespect I could never get past. I'd be done from that act alone.
And if you really think they didn't have sex, you really need to examine adult sexual behavior better. What she's trying to convince you of is high school stuff. Adults have sex.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

couple4231 said:


> She knows. She broke down and told me everything after I started finding things.


So? Snot and tears is easy. Changing WHO YOU ARE is not. And she's a serial cheater. 

What does that mean? It means she values HER HAPPINESS over yours. It means she doesn't really love you, she loves WHAT YOU DO FOR HER. 

In other words, you're there because it works for her. Kick her out. Make her prove she deserves a second chance. You will regret this the rest of your life if you let her stay.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Google serial cheater. The prevailing wisdom is that serial cheaters can’t stop cheating. 

Good luck


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

When you get hit with double talk, do what one client recommended. Basically he said to his stbx :

Everything coming out of your mouth is sh it, it has no basis in reality, and I do not appreciate you trying to cloud your bad deeds with lies, half truths and innuendo. The truth is you spread them for another guy. That is on you, 1000%. I did not hold your wh0re legs apart and guide his dlck into your wh0re’s cun+.

Apparently her mouth dropped open. He continued. Right now there is no level of your blame shifting that will work and everyone we know will be told.

He got her attention. She got an attitude adjustment PDQ, realized she was not going to bully him into submission. Quite the opposite. It was made plain that he was in the driver seat. She bristled, but capitulated, as he had made good on his threats, and her family and friends turned on her.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

This is a very sad story and sorry you are going through this. I honestly can't believe you are asking advice as you don't know what to do.

The answer is a simple one albeit a hard and devastating choice for you. Your wife cheated on you multiple times, was willing to leave you but then proposed marriage when she worked out that she would be left without a meal ticket and ATM Machine.

Unfortunately that is what you are to her. Third choice safe bet doormat that will finance her life.

Please seek out a good divorce lawyer and plan your exit. You are in an abusive relationship and this cycle will not stop. Her reasons for cheating on you are horse sh...it straight out of the cheater's hand book. 

Also DNA your son.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Sports Fan said:


> Unfortunately that is what you are to her. Third choice safe bet doormat that will finance her life.


Yep. BTDT, too. I didn't get the T-shirt, though. I opted for a doormat cover instead.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

I'm honestly not going to give you advice- you probably know the answer. I just can't for the life of me figure out why people are wired like your wife? There are actually good, decent people out there, and she isn't one of them. You definitely seem like the safe, I just don't want to be alone kind of guy to her.


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## Devastated wife (Feb 19, 2018)

OP I am so sorry to hear that this has happened to you; it is incredibly sad.

Unfortunately when we love someone we are quite often blind to changes in their behaviour or subtle hints that things are amiss and it sometimes takes a while to realise that we shouldn't be tolerating this behaviour. It is hard, especially when you've been together a long time and/or have kids but you are worth more than this.

After I found out my husband cheated, it took months of friends, family and people on here telling me that I didn't deserve that kind of treatment and yet I continually made excuses for him; he's stressed with the new job, I've not been as supportive as I could have been, he's going through a mid life crisis etc. But you will come to realise your worth in time. You did not ask to be cheated on and her infidelity was her choice; you did not tell her to behave like this.

She does not respect you or your marriage and I would not put it past her doing it again if you gave her another chance. I know you would probably prefer to keep your family together for the sake of your kids, but how could you ever trust her again knowing what she has done? She seems to have found it so easy to lie and deceive you for so long; she is not a nice person and I'm sure you can do so much better. You would be forever worrying where she was or who she was with whenever she left the house.

I initially wanted to reconcile with my husband but after coming to terms with rejection (he left me for the AP) and going through with the divorce proceedings, I am so glad that the choice was taken from me. If he had come back to me, my life would be miserable and full of stress and anxiety, always wondering if he'd do it again. And why did I want the person who claimed to love me the most and who could do something that caused so much pain and hurt back in my life? Eventually I realised that I am a good person and deserves someone equally as worthy. So do you, and you will find her.

My advice would be to seek legal consult and make sure your rights and the kids are looked after. She may seem remorseful now but good people do not push other people under the bus and treat them like your wife has treated you. Cheaters have a way of placing blame on the spouse and trying to make out that it is our actions that have made them cheat. Do not believe it; this was not your fault. I read a book called 'Leave a Cheater, gain a life.' I really enjoyed it and I couldn't believe how much of it I could relate to my situation; some of the things my ex husband did or said. It made a lot of things that much clearer to me and helped me move on.

I wish you luck for the future; I hope you move on in your own time and realise how much better your life will be without her as your partner. Focus on your kids and be the best person you can be, for you and for your children and when the time is right, a good woman will come into your life and treat you properly.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Devastated wife said:


> She does not respect you or your marriage and I would not put it past her doing it again if you gave her another chance.
> My advice would be to seek legal consult and make sure your rights and the kids are looked after.
> Cheaters have a way of placing blame on the spouse and trying to make out that it is our actions that have made them cheat.





GusPolinski said:


> Your wife is a serial cheat incapable of any meaningful level of fidelity.


 @Devastated wife has very good advice. Your wife is "right on script". And @GusPolinski has the correct judgement.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

@couple4231, I am guessing that you can't find your thread now that it was moved to CWI. Or that you still can't post there for some reason. If so, PM a moderator to trubleshoot this. In regard to your situation, I know it is common these days to live together and have children and then maybe get married years later, but, as an old guy, I don't get this. You should have found out what type of person your wife is before having children. Frankly, I wouldn't waste any more time with someone like her, but because you have children, you are stuck with dealing with her for a long time. I think the government shouldn't be involved in marriage. No one should have to get a marriage license from the government. But I do think people should have to get a parenting license, and pass at least a basic parenting course before being allowed to parent children. It's children who seem to be the innocent victims in the various threads on this board.


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