# Does the dumper ever reaaly feel bad?



## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I think many have read my story.

Married 14 years two girls wife walks out and leaves the girls. I file for divorce. 5 months later she says she wants to work it out.. I end the court case. 4 months later she said she still doesn't love me and really wants a divorce. She says she is sorry for hurting me.

This is to all the men/woman that have dumped their spouse that were in non abusive relationships.. Seriously? Do you really feel bad that you ripped someone's heart out? do you really care how terrible you made that person feel? 

Maybe causes I got dumped... but I can't for the life of me see how the person doing the dumping can not feel anything but joy and relief. That they can start a new life with no guilt while the other is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life from the person they loved and planned to spend the rest of their life together.

PLEASE can someone that dumped their spouse explain to me.. cause when my STBEW told me she was sorry I felt she was full of crap, evil and cold.

Please enlighten me!


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## Mr. Katy (Mar 12, 2013)

I feel terrible for all the heartache I have caused my wife. When I did it though, I didn't care what she thought. I thought I was in love with someone else. I was wrong and felt like hell for all the tears I caused my wife. She took me back again and I started acting stupid again. Now she has kicked me out and won't talk to me at all. 

Yes. Some of us do feel bad.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

What amazes me is the girls are spose to have that motherly thing
yet the only thing they end up caring about is that thing
between their legs .Above the kids , you, money.
That's after spending their best years chasing you,kids,
money, secutiry,,marriage and family.
But,my x was so badly stressed about breaking us up she
lost a heap of weight,she was at the doctors near every
week , l was actually really worried about her.
We'd both had a really stressful 3-4years before but even
through that her health was already pretty scary.
Been 6mths now and she's put weight back on and doesn't
seem as shook up as she was. l know she's got a new wave
of stresses moving in now though as reality sets in, especially
with my daught -who's giving her hell.
She's clueless as to why but l know dsmnwell it's recentment
and stress of trying to cope with her family being destroyed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> Maybe causes I got dumped... but I can't for the life of me see how the person doing the dumping can not feel anything but joy and relief. That they can start a new life with no guilt while the other is left to pick up the pieces of a shattered life from the person they loved and planned to spend the rest of their life together.


Oh, I think they feel the full force of it in the end. It may take months or even years, but they have to live with the consequences of it - often for the rest of their lives. They have to live with knowing that they lied and cheated. They have to live with the fact that they destroyed a family - in almost all cases for an affair that probably lasted 6 months or less. 

I read somewhere recently a psychologist saying that people who have affairs in marriage fare far worse on average than the betrayed partners. If you are betrayed it is very painful but it is clear what you need to do to get over it and move forward in your life. If you are the cheater then things are far less clear cut for you - you have to work out why you had the affair, what you were looking for, how to deal with the person you cheated on, feelings of guilt (that you may deny but that are there somewhere), etc. 



whitehawk said:


> What amazes me is the girls are spose to have that motherly thing
> yet the only thing they end up caring about is that thing
> between their legs .Above the kids , you, money.
> That's after spending their best years chasing you,kids,
> money, security,,marriage and family.


Your story and mine are amazingly similar. My STBXW still deep in the fog, still chasing complete narcissistic **** who is going to turn around and hurt her very badly, still trying to dress like him, knowing all the time that her kids "hate" her (the word she herself uses) for it but going ahead with it all the same.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

Some feel bad, remorseful, sad, regretful, ashamed, and other emotions under the general heading bad. Others don't feel bad at all and go on their merry way. All depends on the people and the situation. But none of that changes the situation for the OP and his dumping spouse. You just can't paint everyone with the same brush strokes.


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## hank_rea (Mar 13, 2013)

My ex wife doesn't seem to care about what I'm going through. When we split up, I literally lost everything (my home, my job, my companion, my stability, my happiness). She hasn't once called me to see if I've found a job yet or just to even ask how I'm doing. As soon as I left the house she had already moved on. 9 years together and she just completely turns her back on me. Didn't even let me text her to wish her a happy 40th birthday. This is not at all the same person that I married. 

Not saying I was perfect. I neglected her and would often act disinterested in her. But, had she sat me down and laid out exactly how this was making her feel I would have done something about it. Honestly, I just figured that's how a marriage was supposed to be after a certain amount of years. Bad examples, I guess....everyone I know who has been married for a long time always goes on and on about how bored they are. We never had arguments so I thought everything was fine. And a little over a month after I get the ILYBNILWY, I stand before you a divorcee. I would have never done this to her.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Mine missed my 40th b-day too. I served her Aug 21, my 14 wedding anniversary was Aug 22 and my 40th was Aug 23.

She told me she was very sad that she missed it. I just think that was out of guilt and not actual sadness. It was a milestone that few "enjoy".

It will always stick with me.. I think she was only upset cause she got served.. not for my feelings.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Nope, because they believe it's all OUR fault. We 'forced' them to cheat and leave...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think some people are simply wired to switch things completely on or completely off. These are people who are incapable of generic empathy. When they are in your camp, you get all the love and caring, but when they move out of your camp, you are faded to black for them.

This is, in my opinion, a personality type - it seems to go along with the famous compartmentalizers. Many (most?) people aren't like this, in my experience, so the people on this thread should be hopeful for their lives. There are really good people out there who don't switch their humanity on and off.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I think some people are simply wired to switch things completely on or completely off. These are people who are incapable of generic empathy. When they are in your camp, you get all the love and caring, but when they move out of your camp, you are faded to black for them.
> 
> This is, in my opinion, a personality type - it seems to go along with the famous compartmentalizers. Many (most?) people aren't like this, in my experience, so the people on this thread should be hopeful for their lives. There are really good people out there who don't switch their humanity on and off.


I think that (as you say in your second para) there are very few people who can sustain that forever. Sure, some people are good at compartmentalising their lives. But you can't compartmentalise your sub-conscious mind and when you act in a way that conflicts with your fundamental values your conscious mind can deny, justify and rationalise this for only so long. But in the short term it leads to a nagging background feeling of unhappiness and dissatisfaction. Eventually it bubbles up from your sub-conscious mind and you can no longer deny it. This may take years but for most people it happens eventually. Even if people don't have the empathy to feel remorse they can still weep bitter tears of self-pity.

Incidentally, that is one of the reasons why I am trying not to show anger to my STBXW. Whilst I am angry at her and she feels under attack she goes into psychological self-defence mode (just as anyone would when they feel under attack) and justifies her behaviour to herself. Hard as it is, it is only when I back off and she doesn't feel under attack any more that the guilt and remorse have a chance to kick in.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> Oh, I think they feel the full force of it in the end. It may take months or even years, but they have to live with the consequences of it - often for the rest of their lives. They have to live with knowing that they lied and cheated. They have to live with the fact that they destroyed a family - in almost all cases for an affair that probably lasted 6 months or less.


Guilt in my stbxh is most obvious with his immediate gambling following an unpleasant interaction with me. He recently opened up about his feelings for me (he has never done) and off to the machines he went for one of his worst episodes yet.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I think that (as you say in your second para) there are very few people who can sustain that forever. Sure, some people are good at compartmentalising their lives. But you can't compartmentalise your sub-conscious mind and when you act in a way that conflicts with your fundamental values your conscious mind can deny, justify and rationalise this for only so long. But in the short term it leads to a nagging background feeling of unhappiness and dissatisfaction. Eventually it bubbles up from your sub-conscious mind and you can no longer deny it. This may take years but for most people it happens eventually. Even if people don't have the empathy to feel remorse they can still weep bitter tears of self-pity.


This is interesting. I think that there certainly can be some cognitive dissonance for people like this as the truth and reality break through, but I've also known people who literally lie themselves into a reality that they can live with. They tell themselves a livable version of whatever awful thing they did and with time they truly come to believe it. I suppose this is a protective mechanism. The conscience can't trouble them if the past is successfully whitewashed. In this case, they neither consciously nor sub-/unconsciously lie to themselves - they've literally overwritten the memory.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> This is interesting. I think that there certainly can be some cognitive dissonance for people like this as the truth and reality break through, but I've also known people who literally lie themselves into a reality that they can live with. They tell themselves a livable version of whatever awful thing they did and with time they truly come to believe it. I suppose this is a protective mechanism. The conscience can't trouble them if the past is successfully whitewashed. In this case, they neither consciously nor sub-/unconsciously lie to themselves - they've literally overwritten the memory.


People who lie to themselves always know, on some level, that they are doing so. And we all do it to an extent - that time when we knew that we were in the wrong in an argument with a friend but convinced ourselves that they did us wrong. Usually that situation resolves itself quite quickly because we admit to ourselves that we were in the wrong. 

When there is more at stake people can sustain these self-lies for longer. But there is always some tension, some compromise. The sub-conscious mind always knows the truth, even if the conscious mind builds elaborate self-justifications. And even if those elaborate constructs last until the day you die (which as you rightly say they can do in some people) there is always some dissatisfaction, some compromise, some feeling that something si not quite right. It's not a recipe for a happy life. 

It's one of the reasons why shows like Big Brother can be fascinating. When you get someone whose outward persona is essentially just an artificial construct of lies and fantasies then it is often very fragile. When they have to spend days and days with other people then the inconsistencies are exposed and the whole facade crumbles quite quickly. Contrast that with "genuine" people - who appear so genuine precisely because everything they say and do seems so consistent. 

But, hey, what do I know? Those are just my personal observations. I'm not a psychologist or a psychiatrist.


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## Thumper (Mar 23, 2013)

what amazes me is not the regret for breaking the family/marriage up, but the fact they didn't do it even sooner. they'll deal with the fallout later, but there sure gonna have some fun till then.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Thumper said:


> they'll deal with the fallout later, but there sure gonna have some fun till then.


SO you've met my STBXW recently.


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## allowingthecakeeating (Mar 13, 2013)

I think of all the stuff above. What gets me is that my STBXH had an emotional affair and I think for the last year (at least) he has "white nuckled" it until his OW was divorced and he told me it was over. Then they sealed it.....He is running around thinking he was honorable because "I did not have sex with that women" famous words of Bill Clinton. He does not see that they were planning and keeping secrets for a long time. Do guys think that it is not cheating if they don't have actual sex. They have lived in a secret world for over the last two years....I consider it cheating. But he seems to have NO GUILT! SHAME ON HIM.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

allowingthecakeeating said:


> . Do guys think that it is not cheating if they don't have actual sex. They have lived in a secret world for over the last two years....I consider it cheating. But he seems to have NO GUILT! SHAME ON HIM.


Not just guys. My STBXW thought that it was fine to pour her heart out to her EA partner. She even checked with her lawyer and threw back in my face "Legally there is no such thing as an Emotional Affair. It doesn't exist!!" Well, that makes it OK then, doesn't it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Mr. Katy said:


> I feel terrible for all the heartache I have caused my wife. When I did it though, I didn't care what she thought. I thought I was in love with someone else. I was wrong and felt like hell for all the tears I caused my wife. She took me back again and I started acting stupid again. Now she has kicked me out and won't talk to me at all.


Can't say you weren't warned.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> "Legally there is no such thing as an Emotional Affair. It doesn't exist!!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Conrad said:


> That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.


And possibly the most fog-bound??

Wasn't much fun to hear this heartless justification of her bad behaviour.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> And possibly the most fog-bound??
> 
> Wasn't much fun to hear this heartless justification of her bad behaviour.


I'm certain it was no fun to hear.

But, the speciousness of the excuse has to give some solace.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Conrad said:


> I'm certain it was no fun to hear.
> 
> But, the speciousness of the excuse has to give some solace.


Oh, I know that the bitter tears of shame and regret will come eventually. I doubt I will actually see them, though - let alone get any sort of apology or expression of remorse. We'll be divorced by then, our family ripped apart for a dumb fantasy.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

A DUMB FANTASY.

Exactly.

I give people 3 months to crawl back when THEY have effed up.

So far, in my life, this has been the magic number.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

But me, personally, it an old relationship (older daughter's father), I left his emotionally abusive butt for his friend  DRAMA and horrible and i've made amends with both of those men years ago. BUT....

I didn't think anything about leaving him for about....9 months. Then...yea. Then I was "sorry" and wanted to give it another try (omg no) and all of that. He was like, "Sorry, no." and I don't blame him and THANK GOD FOR THAT :rofl:

But yea. By a year for me.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

that_girl said:


> A DUMB FANTASY.
> 
> Exactly.
> 
> ...


No sign of any regrets at all so far - and in fact we have just passed the 3 month mark from D-Day. Still dreaming of "freedom" without that bothersome marriage.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

The goal is to get to the point where you don't care if they feel sorry.

They'll likely never comprehend what they've done anyway. Any apology you might get won't balance out their selfishness.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> The goal is to get to the point where you don't care if they feel sorry.
> 
> They'll likely never comprehend what they've done anyway. Any apology you might get won't balance out their selfishness.


You're absolutely right - that's the goal.

But when you're on the long, uncertain journey towards that goal and you don't know if you'll ever reach it - some comfort in the form of some acknowledgement of the harm caused by the person who has ripped your heart out as if without a care in the world would be nice!


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> You're absolutely right - that's the goal.
> 
> But when you're on the long, uncertain journey towards that goal and you don't know if you'll ever reach it - some comfort in the form of some acknowledgement of the harm caused by the person who has ripped your heart out as if without a care in the world would be nice!


Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Work on yourself knowing this will probably never come. If it does you can do what you want with it. 

Personally, I would get no comfort in any sort of apology. "What? You're sorry? OK, thanks for that. Goodbye."


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Personally, I would get no comfort in any sort of apology. "What? You're sorry? OK, thanks for that. Goodbye."


For me the comfort would come from the remorse behind a genuine apology. That, an acknowledgement that the many attacks and accusations that have been made against me are mostly unfair and undeserved. I'll take criticism for the mistakes I made during the marriage, but only if the brickbats are handed out evenly. 

But all the BS about being controlling (sorry if the inconvenient fact that you were married made it harder for you to have EAs and PAs), uncaring (a bit rich from the person who said that she never loved me, even on our wedding day), unsupportive (who listened to you drone on every single day about the job that you supposedly hated - but now love since you said you wanted a divorce) and no help around the house (even though you told me the exact opposite when I asked to check that I was doing enough). Yeah, I would like her to admit that that was all made up to justify her actions, with no regard for the truth or for my feelings. I'd take that apology for starters.

Also all the "I did everything I possibly could to save the marriage" BS. Yeah, everything you could, including EAs. That really helped, didn't it? Everything you could except (1) actually talking to me about it, and (2) actually doing something yourself, instead expecting me to fix all of our problems. 

I'm just venting now. But yeah, I would like some apologies for all of the lies and BS. And that's just the lies and BS she has told herself and me about the marriage - that's even before you get into the lies around the EAs and PA.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It will come at a time when you simply don't care anymore. Their "freedom" will have played out and they'll realize how sad and lonely life is...how empty it is...how every one of their friends now has a family, home, life...their friends aren't going out that much BECAUSE they are settling down, etc...and they themselves have...well, nothing.

By that time of their realization, you'll (I) will probably be through my heartbreak and so when/if they come sniffing around, I will be more clear headed and say, "Wow...you really effed up. Sucks to be you."


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> For me the comfort would come from the remorse behind a genuine apology. That, an acknowledgement that the many attacks and accusations that have been made against me are mostly unfair and undeserved. I'll take criticism for the mistakes I made during the marriage, but only if the brickbats are handed out evenly.
> 
> But all the BS about being controlling (sorry if the inconvenient fact that you were married made it harder for you to have EAs and PAs), uncaring (a bit rich from the person who said that she never loved me, even on our wedding day), unsupportive (who listened to you drone on every single day about the job that you supposedly hated - but now love since you said you wanted a divorce) and no help around the house (even though you told me the exact opposite when I asked to check that I was doing enough). Yeah, I would like her to admit that that was all made up to justify her actions, with no regard for the truth or for my feelings. I'd take that apology for starters.
> 
> ...


Trust me, I hear you. Went through the same things. But if you are waiting for an apology from your ex to make you feel better then you are still giving her control over you. 

I've simply decided that I don't need it. I'm happy and moving on because I want to be happy. No one has control over me but me (and my 6 year old princess). : )


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> For me the comfort would come from the remorse behind a genuine apology. That, an acknowledgement that the many attacks and accusations that have been made against me are mostly unfair and undeserved. I'll take criticism for the mistakes I made during the marriage, but only if the brickbats are handed out evenly.
> 
> But all the BS about being controlling (sorry if the inconvenient fact that you were married made it harder for you to have EAs and PAs), uncaring (a bit rich from the person who said that she never loved me, even on our wedding day), unsupportive (who listened to you drone on every single day about the job that you supposedly hated - but now love since you said you wanted a divorce) and no help around the house (even though you told me the exact opposite when I asked to check that I was doing enough). Yeah, I would like her to admit that that was all made up to justify her actions, with no regard for the truth or for my feelings. I'd take that apology for starters.
> 
> ...


Voltaire - aside from the EAs/PAs, this could be me. I finally said several weeks ago "All I'm looking for is some g*dd*mn appreciation from you for everything I've done for this family!"

***Crickets***

I don't think we'll ever get this from the WS's and moving on from expecting it I think is a necessity for healing.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

soca70 said:


> I finally said several weeks ago "All I'm looking for is some g*dd*mn appreciation from you for everything I've done for this family!"


The essential codependent thought pattern.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The essential codependent thought pattern.


Conrad returns with a 2X4!

Note that I haven't said anything like that lately...


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Conrad said:


> The essential codependent thought pattern.


Putting a condition on your own happiness. Remove the da*n condition!


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

I am the dumper and i dont' feel bad, i feel sad that after 14 years we couldn't find a way through it, but the lack of love intimacy and even interest in my life was too much to bear. 18 months ago i achieved a dream i had had since i was 16, i'm now 42, and she managed to look up from her book and mutter a well done. that was when i knew my relationship was over but i still hung in for another 12 months because i love my children. for that 12 months i was miserable and i reached out to friends for support, some male, some female and those friends helped me and kept me going through it, If having that kind of relationship with a female friend is considered an EA then I too am guilty of it, but I wouldn't have got through that year without it.

No relationship is one sided, no break up is one sided, I know my part in it, my stbxw still doesn't see hers. the first step for me in healing the pain of a failed marriage was to understand my role, after all my behaviour is the only behaviour I can change.

Sorry for rambling but not all dumpers dump because they want to...some of us have to


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## ItsGonnabeAlright (Nov 19, 2012)

The only one who should feel bad is the one who caused all the turmoil. Other than that, if someone, like myself, filed because they were tired of being dragged down, with a terminally ill marriage, then nope, there is no remorse, I am extremely confident and happy with my decision. Does my stbx feel bad? hmm. I doubt it.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ItsGonnabeAlright said:


> The only one who should feel bad is the one who caused all the turmoil. Other than that, if someone, like myself, filed because they were tired of being dragged down, with a terminally ill marriage, then nope, there is no remorse, I am extremely confident and happy with my decision. Does my stbx feel bad? hmm. I doubt it.


Then why are you here?


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

Just to make the ones that are hurting feel like crap that their STBX is living the dream while we wallow in our own self pity and bawl all night


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

Ceegee said:


> Then why are you here?


just because you know you've done the right thing doesn't mean it's easy


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ItsGonnabeAlright said:


> I am extremely confident and happy with my decision.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

So, now that I understand I have come to the conclusion that the walk aways, and the ones that abandon their former husbands/wives are laughing all the way and ensuring that they make the ones left behind suffer in absolute misery and do everything in their power to inflict more pain on the left behinds. And they gain pleasure from this. 

People. Don't trust anyone. Only yourself. Don't depend on anyone; only yourself. 

Be weary and incredibly vigilant in who you let in. They will come in to your life, hurt you and then leave laughing their heads off.

I for one won't be going through that again. It will send me to my grave.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Left With 4.5 said:


> Nope, because they believe it's all OUR fault. We 'forced' them to cheat and leave...


OF COURSE we made them do it. They feel zero responsibility for their actions. Pathetic.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

that_girl said:


> It will come at a time when you simply don't care anymore. Their "freedom" will have played out and they'll realize how sad and lonely life is...how empty it is...how every one of their friends now has a family, home, life...their friends aren't going out that much BECAUSE they are settling down, etc...and they themselves have...well, nothing.
> 
> By that time of their realization, you'll (I) will probably be through my heartbreak and so when/if they come sniffing around, I will be more clear headed and say, "Wow...you really effed up. Sucks to be you."


All very true. It just seems very hollow to have to wait until you don't care any more to get that acknowledgement. 

It also worries me hugely. I'm picturing a scenarios where I have finally put all of her BS behind me, got over all the unnecessary pain she has added to the process because of her pathetic teenage antics. Then, having had her fun and sewn her wild oats whilst trampling all over my emotions, when reality finally bites she decides that she wants to try again. And she gets the support of the kids, who want nothing more than for their parents to get back together. So then I become the bad one - and remain the bad one for the rest of time - because I would not consider handing her back the knife to thrust into my heart once again. 

That's what worries me. 



Ceegee said:


> Trust me, I hear you. Went through the same things. But if you are waiting for an apology from your ex to make you feel better then you are still giving her control over you.


On my thread I wrote about a week ago about how I realised that I was waiting for her to say that the marriage ever meant anything to her - and it was very liberating once I realised that that acknowledgement would never come. 

I wouldn't say that I am waiting for an apology. I know I'll never get it, because at the moment her whole world is based on the BS notion that she is 100% the wronged party and that she is 100% justified in every thing she did and continues to do. To admit any wrongdoing (or to admit that she is acting without even thinking of the effect of what she is doing on other people, even her own children) would mean that the whole thing collapses around her feet, and she just can't do that. 

So, no, I'm not waiting for that apology. But it certainly would be some comfort to hear it right now - even if I know that it's never going to happen. 






thisSux said:


> I am the dumper and i dont' feel bad, i feel sad that after 14 years we couldn't find a way through it, but the lack of love intimacy and even interest in my life was too much to bear. 18 months ago i achieved a dream i had had since i was 16, i'm now 42, and she managed to look up from her book and mutter a well done. that was when i knew my relationship was over but i still hung in for another 12 months because i love my children. for that 12 months i was miserable and i reached out to friends for support, some male, some female and those friends helped me and kept me going through it, If having that kind of relationship with a female friend is considered an EA then I too am guilty of it, but I wouldn't have got through that year without it.
> 
> No relationship is one sided, no break up is one sided, I know my part in it, my stbxw still doesn't see hers. the first step for me in healing the pain of a failed marriage was to understand my role, after all my behaviour is the only behaviour I can change.
> 
> Sorry for rambling but not all dumpers dump because they want to...some of us have to


TS, I don't know you and I don't know your situation or your history, but your words sound an awful lot like the words of my STBXW. And, in her case, they are complete BS.

My STBXW claims that she did everything she could to save the marriage. But when I asked her "so what did you actually do? What steps did you take to repair the marriage?" all she could say was that she "just gave up". I hope that you did more than that.

My wife claims that she was "miserable". But she chose to push me away whenever I tried to show her friendship, sympathy or love. She had a narrative in her head that everything in her life was intolerable and that she was the victim of this harsh, uncaring husband and events had to be manipulated to fit that narrative. Amazingly, the job that she "hated" before she now "loves". I hope that you didn't do that to your H (or to yourself, for that matter).

My wife chose not to share her unhappiness and concerns with me. She chose to turn her back on the marriage and pour her heart out to others - including at least one EA partner. That was a choice that she made, but she still doesn't understand or admit that it was a choice - and one that was toxic to the marriage. I hope that you didn't make a similar choice, or decide (as my wife did) that there was no point in speaking to your H because he wouldn't take you or your concerns seriously. I hope that you didn't spend months or years expecting him to be a mind-reader, to know what was wrong without ever actually telling him.

Indeed, when it comes to choices my STBXW denies all responsibility for the choices that she made (and even that she had any choices) by using the very same words that you do - that she was "forced" to leave the marriage. She also insists that the end of our marriage only involved her and me - so the various EA/PA partners and her choice to enter into those relationships had nothing to do with it. Her choice to talk to others rather than to try to resolve our problems by actually talking to me was not her choice either. And the various cheerleaders telling her that she would be sooooo much happier if she dumped me had nothing to do with it.


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## Forever Changed (Sep 18, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> OF COURSE we made them do it. They feel zero responsibility for their actions. Pathetic.


So consider this, and take stock if you will.

The person who you once loved with all your heart, is gone now. However you like to put it, they have died but are still living in their body. But they are different; and they are dangerous. I may sound paranoid, but think about this - they are out to get you and make you suffer. I firmly believe this. 

Be extremely careful when dealing with them. I feel terribly ashamed in saying this, but if STBXW and I did not have a baby I would never, ever, ever want to see her again.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Forever Changed said:


> But they are different; and they are dangerous. I may sound paranoid, but think about this - they are out to get you and make you suffer. I firmly believe this.


Some (but not all) spouses who initiated divorce or separation have behaved badly and have a desperate need to justify their behaviour to themselves. This they typically do by convincing themselves that they are the victim and you are the "nasty" party. Their anger and your suffering then become key evidence that they use to "prove" to themselves that you were in the wrong, not them.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> All very true. It just seems very hollow to have to wait until you don't care any more to get that acknowledgement.
> 
> It also worries me hugely. I'm picturing a scenarios where I have finally put all of her BS behind me, got over all the unnecessary pain she has added to the process because of her pathetic teenage antics. Then, having had her fun and sewn her wild oats whilst trampling all over my emotions, when reality finally bites she decides that she wants to try again. And she gets the support of the kids, who want nothing more than for their parents to get back together. So then I become the bad one - and remain the bad one for the rest of time - because I would not consider handing her back the knife to thrust into my heart once again.
> 
> ...


i lived with my wifes depression for 10 years, i tried to get her to seek help, i tried to help get her motivated, i allowed her to overspend horrifically because she gained a moments happiness from it, i worked sometimes 17 hour days then got up early the next morning and cleaned the house, i took her to do all things she said she wanted to do just to see a moment of her being happy, i tried to help her stop drinking so that her medication would work properly, i told her that i couldn't keep going like this on numerous occasions and nothing changed. i told her i understood that she didn't intend to do and say all the things that hurt me but they still hurt and through all of this i constructed barriers to protect myself, one day they got so big they were never coming down, but i still stayed and tried to make things work for 12 months. yes i made a choice to speak to other people regarding my unhappiness, yes i made the choice to leave but i tried everything else i possibly could before i did.

now i am happier, i spend better time with my kids and now that she has no choice she is starting to become more motivated to live a life


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## wisernow (Apr 24, 2013)

you are right. this is so true.


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## wisernow (Apr 24, 2013)

Forever Changed said:


> So consider this, and take stock if you will.
> 
> The person who you once loved with all your heart, is gone now. However you like to put it, they have died but are still living in their body. But they are different; and they are dangerous. I may sound paranoid, but think about this - they are out to get you and make you suffer. I firmly believe this.
> 
> Be extremely careful when dealing with them. I feel terribly ashamed in saying this, but if STBXW and I did not have a baby I would never, ever, ever want to see her again.


This is so TRUE.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Forever Changed said:


> So consider this, and take stock if you will.
> 
> The person who you once loved with all your heart, is gone now. However you like to put it, they have died but are still living in their body. But they are different; and they are dangerous. I may sound paranoid, but think about this - they are out to get you and make you suffer. I firmly believe this.
> 
> Be extremely careful when dealing with them. I feel terribly ashamed in saying this, but if STBXW and I did not have a baby I would never, ever, ever want to see her again.


*I feel the same way about my ex. If we didn't have a child together I would never, ever see him or talk to him again. I wish he would disappear, but my son would miss him.*

After what he's done to me and this family... he seems to feel very little remorse or guilt. The reason is , in my opinion, is he thinks this is all NORMAL. His entire family have backgrounds like what he has done. They are all divorced, illegitimate kids everywhere, lives a mess. 

The hurt, embarrassment, pain and disgust he has put upon my son and I is unforgiveable really. Somewhere deep down I still love him, but it is unforgiveable. I don't want him in my life. He is poison.

Amazing...


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Voltaire said:


> Some (but not all) spouses who initiated divorce or separation have behaved badly and have a desperate need to justify their behaviour to themselves. This they typically do by convincing themselves that they are the victim and you are the "nasty" party. Their anger and your suffering then become key evidence that they use to "prove" to themselves that you were in the wrong, not them.


Oh ain't this the truth.

Somehow I am the evil one. Somehow he is the victim. All the years of lies, cheating and now getting some skank pregnant and I'm the evil one. 

Let them wallow in their own DENIAL. Its a sickness, and unfortunately they will never see it. Their life is a mess and it will continue to get messier. 

In my case I am exiting this toxic marriage with my head held high, knowing I never lied or cheated, was committed to my husband and family. I will also be exiting way better off financially than him. I have my good job, a huge amount of child and spousal support, and am taking half of his huge pension. I have no debts, have money in the bank and a bright future. I'm going back to school to earn an extra credential - which he has to pay for. 

HIM - on the other hand - is dead broke. Miserable. Lonely and depressed. 65% of his salary he has worked so hard for is going to be eaten up with payments to me, and also child support to the pregnant skank he knocked up. He won't have my son and I, and he won't have her or the other kid either. He'll be a pathetic part time dad to 2 kids - both of who will probably detest him for what hes done.

I'm the victim, but then again in the end, I'm not. I'm the lucky one in disguise.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

_I don't know you and I don't know your situation or your history, but your words sound an awful lot like the words of my STBXW. And, in her case, they are complete BS.

My STBXW claims that she did everything she could to save the marriage. But when I asked her "so what did you actually do? What steps did you take to repair the marriage?" all she could say was that she "just gave up". I hope that you did more than that.

My wife claims that she was "miserable". But she chose to push me away whenever I tried to show her friendship, sympathy or love. She had a narrative in her head that everything in her life was intolerable and that she was the victim of this harsh, uncaring husband and events had to be manipulated to fit that narrative. Amazingly, the job that she "hated" before she now "loves". I hope that you didn't do that to your H (or to yourself, for that matter).

My wife chose not to share her unhappiness and concerns with me. She chose to turn her back on the marriage and pour her heart out to others - including at least one EA partner. That was a choice that she made, but she still doesn't understand or admit that it was a choice - and one that was toxic to the marriage. I hope that you didn't make a similar choice, or decide (as my wife did) that there was no point in speaking to your H because he wouldn't take you or your concerns seriously. I hope that you didn't spend months or years expecting him to be a mind-reader, to know what was wrong without ever actually telling him.

Indeed, when it comes to choices my STBXW denies all responsibility for the choices that she made (and even that she had any choices) by using the very same words that you do - that she was "forced" to leave the marriage. She also insists that the end of our marriage only involved her and me - so the various EA/PA partners and her choice to enter into those relationships had nothing to do with it. Her choice to talk to others rather than to try to resolve our problems by actually talking to me was not her choice either. And the various cheerleaders telling her that she would be sooooo much happier if she dumped me had nothing to do with it._

OMG you could be talking about my ex and the way he sees things. He didn't try one little bit. Ran off to other women and poured his heart out to his "soulmates" and "best friends" instead. Got egged on along the way by his sick friends and family who thought he was such a stud - and conveniently overlooked the fact that he dumped his wife and special needs child. Yes he was FORCED to leave the marriage. Whatever.. Its all BS from a sick mind.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Omg if there were no kids, I'd have moved out in January and not said d1ck to him since.

Just sent divorce papers.


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> _I don't know you and I don't know your situation or your history, but your words sound an awful lot like the words of my STBXW. And, in her case, they are complete BS.
> 
> My STBXW claims that she did everything she could to save the marriage. But when I asked her "so what did you actually do? What steps did you take to repair the marriage?" all she could say was that she "just gave up". I hope that you did more than that.
> 
> ...


Your ex and mine must be brothers.:rofl:


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

alte Dame said:


> I think some people are simply wired to switch things completely on or completely off. These are people who are incapable of generic empathy. When they are in your camp, you get all the love and caring, but when they move out of your camp, you are faded to black for them.
> 
> This is, in my opinion, a personality type - it seems to go along with the famous compartmentalizers. Many (most?) people aren't like this, in my experience, so the people on this thread should be hopeful for their lives. There are really good people out there who don't switch their humanity on and off.


I don't know what compartmentalizers are...or what I means...I did read it on here at one time but don't remember it. 

But 'this'...lack of empathy statement was my stbxh...incapable. Sympathy or empathy...unable to 'care'.. it was weird. I would need help with something or feel sick or be crying and he would make sure he was unavailable or even bear a sly smile and do something else...then when I would beg for the 'need'...and bring it to his attention 'hey, I need you here this is your job as a husband and this is what I need from you right now'...oh I was deemed 'needy' or bxitchy'...no matter if I asked nice or in tears or what have you...it didn't matter... he had no remorse for what he said or did to me either...not a tear...no pain...

Looking back...

So I read this thread and often wonder myself...now? Now does he? Now does he 'get it'? Now does he feel bad and realize what he's done? Now that he's been out there does he realize how good I was to him? What good wife/servant I was? How good he indeed had it? Does he realized he really fxked up by just walking? Does he care or wonder if anyone has taken his place and is being treated like the king he was treated as? 

I wonder this crap...somewhere on here I read something about getting to the point of not caring about this part anymore...I want that. There was no closure for me...None. As most of you know. 

I'm not sure my stbxh can 'feel'....in my blog I called him Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde...he seemed normal for just a season...then he went back to 'his path'... What's in his head now? He's a very selfish man...'his ex' always emphasized that to me...'wow'...no shxt...and so very 'vain'... I wrote this one blog about him breathing on a mirror so he could see how beautiful his breath is...(analogy)...but what 'is' he thinking now? 

I often wonder if he cries? Shed's a tear? Does he hurt? Does he feel remorse? Most of me thinks it would be absurd...how could he? After all...he could hurt a loving wife...for whatever reason ???? over and over and over again...and keep walking out...and call her names...put her down... knowing and seeing she was trying to get him help...save the marriage and seek what it would take to make him 'act normal'...handle things normally'... I sought after him...and stood by him no matter what he did...and he still left me...then purposefully ruined me financially. 

Does he feel remorse? Feel bad? This fxker is so into himself...I doubt it...he will preoccupy his time with women, devices, toys and drink, music...anything but sit there and 'think about what he's done and who he is'....he doesn't 'check himself'.... no ownership...none. And he lives with parents that enable 'who he is and has become'...so right there is his excuse to be 'ok for who he is'....it's ok to be who he is and do what he's done...

sorry for the long post... mine is a very tough one for me... very tough... brings me to my knees in anguish still... 
thanks for listening...


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

Stella Moon said:


> sorry for the long post... mine is a very tough one for me... very tough... brings me to my knees in anguish still...
> thanks for listening...


I feel for you, Stella

I have actually found this thread very helpful. Partly because I have vented a little bit but mainly because it has shown me that I need to give up the notion that at some point I will get the satisfaction of seeing her show some deep remorse and guilt. And of course it's easy to go from there to clinging to the fantasy that that could lead to some sort of reconciliation. 

None of its going to happen. What I need to cling to, as I was just reading on another thread, is that although I made mistakes in the marriage I never lied and I never cheated.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Stella, I'm sorry you still have these emotions tied to him. I hope it passes soon for you. 

I guess I feel terrible because my wife still cares but I feel like I was a bad husband, she tried over and over to communicate with me but I was prideful and confused. I as well didn't cheat or lie but feel like I was a miserable person to be around. I made my bed and now I'm stuck not being able to sleep in it. Is it easier to know your ex is a wonderful person but neglected her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Left With 4.5 (Aug 4, 2012)

Stella, your post made me tear up! A lot of what you wonder, I wonder too. He shows no remorse, just a lot of hatred towards me. I believe I got a STD from him that turned into cancer. Did I get any reaction from him? NONE. How could a person that has been in your life for 23 years mean nothing to you now? I will never get it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

A learned a bit from my therapist yesterday..

Usually the person being dumped talk and talk and talk to try and keep the marriage from failing...we actually sometime "make" them be mean because they are so sick and tired of listening to us that this is a defense mechanism.

I know I talked her ear off at her house until she stopped and said that she didn't love me anymore.

I should have shut up right away and walked away.. but I let her have it with both barrels and that might have made it worse. Not that she was ever coming home.. but I might have tainted any chance at a reasonable relationship with her. I do have the girls and her and I still have to communicate a little..

During or reconciliation I didn't shut up. That is not the reason it failed, but it is the reason it lasted more than it should have.

If I would have listened I would have know it was over months ago.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Jason,

If you watch Les Miserables, you'll hear the phrase, "The truth is revealed to us all in our time, in our way"

Don't beat yourself up.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

wow, think i'm going through that myself. I just can't speak myself happy but I keep doing it.


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I also "dream the dream" too....


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

Right there with you, i hate waking up from a particularly vivid dream where we are back together etc... It makes the emptiness all the more darker.


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

You know how when you think of what has happened you just get so mad and blurt out, "F You (Spouse Name Here)"

Being mad has really frustrated me because I know everything is going to be alright , maybe even better than being married to the WAW.

Today, I thought on some level my WAW probably did not want to fall out of love with me it just happened. Is that making an excuse, maybe, but being mad doesn't serve any constructive purpose.

Hopefully, people see how this fits into this thread.

Stretch


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Voltaire said:


> I feel for you, Stella
> 
> I have actually found this thread very helpful. Partly because I have vented a little bit but mainly because it has shown me that I need to give up the notion that at some point I will get the satisfaction of seeing her show some deep remorse and guilt. And of course it's easy to go from there to clinging to the fantasy that that could lead to some sort of reconciliation.
> 
> None of its going to happen. What I need to cling to, as I was just reading on another thread, *is that although I made mistakes in the marriage I never lied and I never cheated*.


Me too - I never lied and I never cheated. I was absolutely committed to my husband, family and my marriage.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Lostlove77...says "I guess I feel terrible because my wife still cares but I feel like I was a bad husband, she tried over and over to communicate with me but I was prideful and confused. I as well didn't cheat or lie but feel like I was a miserable person to be around. I made my bed and now I'm stuck not being able to sleep in it. Is it easier to know your ex is a wonderful person but neglected her?"

(sorry, haven't learned how to quote people here)

Good to have a hint of the other's perspective...I hope to god my x is thinking that he neglected me and my needs and will feel that for a long time. Too bad he did cover up his feelings of inadequacy with lies, cheating, blaming me, inventing issues, blowing things out of proportion, ignoring my efforts to ask, find out what's wrong our seek counselling. Then he turned around and blamed me for being unhappy (and having a mental illness) - like THAT's the real issue here.

Did he ever love me? Now i doubt it. Not the way that it counts. In his own, sad, way, sure, he clung to me hoping that if i was happy it would make his life happy too. But he wasn't an active part of our relationship, not really when push came to shove, when it got tested. That's not a marriage. 

This whole thread is really cathartic to read - so many of us with shared devastation (and then, like you lostlove, those who give us the perspective from the other side.)

Thanks for this.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

thisSux said:


> I am the dumper and i dont' feel bad, i feel sad that after 14 years we couldn't find a way through it, but the lack of love intimacy and even interest in my life was too much to bear. 18 months ago i achieved a dream i had had since i was 16, i'm now 42, and she managed to look up from her book and mutter a well done. that was when i knew my relationship was over but i still hung in for another 12 months because i love my children. for that 12 months i was miserable and i reached out to friends for support, some male, some female and those friends helped me and kept me going through it, If having that kind of relationship with a female friend is considered an EA then I too am guilty of it, but I wouldn't have got through that year without it.
> 
> No relationship is one sided, no break up is one sided, I know my part in it, my stbxw still doesn't see hers. the first step for me in healing the pain of a failed marriage was to understand my role, after all my behaviour is the only behaviour I can change.
> 
> Sorry for rambling but not all dumpers dump because they want to...some of us have to



Ha! I figured out the quoting thing.

I beg to differ, TS. Break-ups are one-sided. That's the point. One is dumper, one is dumped. Rarely are they mutually agreed upon with no hard feelings. Yes, it takes two to form and two to continue a relationship, but it only takes one to end it.

And no one, absolutely no one, dumps because they have to. Own your decision as an adult, please, for all of us out there who have been dumped.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> Oh, I know that the bitter tears of shame and regret will come eventually. I doubt I will actually see them, though - let alone get any sort of apology or expression of remorse. We'll be divorced by then, our family ripped apart for a dumb fantasy.


How about my stbxh who said, as his break-up justification (after 9 years and a 6 year old?) - "I just put it out to the universe..."


Like the universe is to blame for the break-up, it's not him! 

OH, thanks, such a relief to know we're all in such good hands.

What a flake. And he wonders why I don't trust him with our D?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> Oh, I know that the bitter tears of shame and regret will come eventually. I doubt I will actually see them, though - let alone get any sort of apology or expression of remorse. We'll be divorced by then, our family ripped apart for a dumb fantasy.



PS. Did I mention that phrase was a direct cue to me that he's getting advice from someone...another flake who uses that line a lot?

So less that a week later I find out he's got a relationship "on the table" with her. Ewww, right?

This is the "mutual friend" of ours who, after almost 9 years not seeing her - we knew each other when my x and i met - says, upon seeing us again , "I can't believe you two are still together!"

So naturally, my x flocks to her like moth to a flame. Hard to resist that kind of rude, tactless flakiness when you're also a rude, tactless flake.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

lucy mulholland said:


> PS. Did I mention that phrase was a direct cue to me that he's getting advice from someone...another flake who uses that line a lot?
> 
> So less that a week later I find out he's got a relationship "on the table" with her. Ewww, right?
> 
> ...


My ex flocks to fruitcakes like flies to sh$t. They are all needy, lonely, low-esteem creatures who he loves to rescue. And they all end up screwing him over. But he keeps going back for more. I don't think I have ever met anyone else in my life who has such a train wreck of a life, and such a long trail of mentally unstable people in his life.

And the entire time he whines about the mess his life is in, continues to make mistake after mistake, bad judgement after bad judgement and cries *all I ever wanted was to be happy*.

He needs serious help.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> For me the comfort would come from the remorse behind a genuine apology. That, an acknowledgement that the many attacks and accusations that have been made against me are mostly unfair and undeserved. I'll take criticism for the mistakes I made during the marriage, but only if the brickbats are handed out evenly.
> 
> But all the BS about being controlling (sorry if the inconvenient fact that you were married made it harder for you to have EAs and PAs), uncaring (a bit rich from the person who said that she never loved me, even on our wedding day), unsupportive (who listened to you drone on every single day about the job that you supposedly hated - but now love since you said you wanted a divorce) and no help around the house (even though you told me the exact opposite when I asked to check that I was doing enough). Yeah, I would like her to admit that that was all made up to justify her actions, with no regard for the truth or for my feelings. I'd take that apology for starters.
> 
> ...



I think I'd be a little validated if he cried, owned up to all the **** he's pulled, said he feels awful and that he knows I deserve better. 

I'd say, you're damn right I deserve better. 

(It's good to have a fantasy like this, I think, as long as you don't expect it to actually ever happen. Just fun to visualize...)


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

brokenbythis said:


> My ex flocks to fruitcakes like flies to sh$t. They are all needy, lonely, low-esteem creatures who he loves to rescue. And they all end up screwing him over. But he keeps going back for more. I don't think I have ever met anyone else in my life who has such a train wreck of a life, and such a long trail of mentally unstable people in his life.
> 
> And the entire time he whines about the mess his life is in, continues to make mistake after mistake, bad judgement after bad judgement and cries *all I ever wanted was to be happy*.
> 
> He needs serious help.


My ex couldn't even own WANTING to be happy...when I'd ask him what he wanted, what I could do to help things, he'd say, I just want YOU to be happy. You know, like with a snap of my fingers (or his, I guess). I was happy with lots of things but this conversation always seemed to come up when I was upset about something.

No, he'd say, it's not about me, it's about you. YOU just need to be happy (ie. not angry, "over it", etc) so that I can relax here.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

This thread is awesome. Thanks for the chance to respond to so many of you. 

I can say now I'm cured (at least for a while) of the thought that I might actually take my ex back if he tried. 

Good luck to him, building a life on the "happiness" he could only achieve by leaving his family and ripping out the heart of someone he supposedly loved. That won't be much of a life, ever.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Ha! I figured out the quoting thing.
> 
> I beg to differ, TS. Break-ups are one-sided. That's the point. One is dumper, one is dumped. Rarely are they mutually agreed upon with no hard feelings. Yes, it takes two to form and two to continue a relationship, but it only takes one to end it.
> 
> And no one, absolutely no one, dumps because they have to. Own your decision as an adult, please, for all of us out there who have been dumped.


while I understand what you are saying, you have never walked in my shoes, I do own my decision, all my decisions and I stand by them. 

I fought with everything I had to revive my marriage, but one person can only do that for so long


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Basically, these people did us a freakin FAVOR by leaving/dumping/whatever.

I like to think that he knows I'm too good for his sorry ass so he let me go...because in this one week since he moved out (separated 4 months), although the first night was hard, it's been AMAZING. Dang. No more worrying about what he's doing online/phone/where he is/etc. I just let him go....hard to do for many BUT I remind myself that he LIED about ever loving me...and probably CHEATED and after the shet talking convo I saw online with his ex, he can kiss my ass.

ALthough, in my heart, I know he's rewriting history, blameshifting--- going through some weird early mid-life crisis and all that other good stuff, but I do not care. He pulled this crap 2 years ago and I worked it out. WE never worked it out-- as he said he pretended to work it out. LOL!! What a jackhole. He is a miserable human being living in one room he's renting in a house. His kids barely deal with him when he visits 2 times a week and his dogs don't even go up to him anymore. I don't talk to him unless it's about kids/money for bills/divorce, even though he was trying to bait me into conversation for a while. Screw him. 

He had a wonderful family, a devoted...DEVOTED...wife who loved being a wife and loved sex and loved him. Now he has his singledom and a room. lol. Nice.

He did me a favor by letting me go and allowing me to use the rest of my youth to be loved by someone who LOVES me....not just settling for his bullcrap crumbs. I'll never accept crumbs again. 

I'm finally walking on solid ground. No more eggshells. 

Life has a way of dealing with these types of people who just use others to get what they want and then toss them aside when they've had their fill. And the LIES!  I don't know how he lives with himself. At least i can go to bed knowing I'm being the best human I can be and my kids are no more than 15 feet away. 

He can suck it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

getting dumped sucks... getting dumped by someone whom you've made a mutual lifelong commitment with and after starting a family is pretty much the worst feeling I will ever have had.

But, after you get over it, it is amazing how good it feels when you connect with someone new, and it makes all the hassle of coparenting somehow more tolerable. Life is somehow sweeter after you've only tasted bitterness for so long.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

thisSux said:


> while I understand what you are saying, you have never walked in my shoes, I do own my decision, all my decisions and I stand by them.
> 
> I fought with everything I had to revive my marriage, but one person can only do that for so long


Yes, I can see your point. You chose to leave but you felt you had no choice b/c your wife wasn't doing anything to help or work on things herself. I see that that would be super challenging, though from my perspective I can't understand her indifference. Do you think she was just waiting or wanting you to do it?

How could she not care? Did you two go to counselling?

I'm asking not to try to stir anything up but because I am trying to understand my x's perspective - see I was the one wanting it to work and I don't think he was trying, but he says he "couldn't try any longer" and then left. I just don't know what version of "trying" he did that left me completely out of it. 

So I revise what I said above - it only takes one person to end a marriage but it definitely takes two to save it. Maybe one at a time, in small gestures, but still. You're right, it can't be all one person's job/burden.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Lon said:


> getting dumped sucks... getting dumped by someone whom you've made a mutual lifelong commitment with and after starting a family is pretty much the worst feeling I will ever have had.
> 
> But, after you get over it, it is amazing how good it feels when you connect with someone new, and it makes all the hassle of coparenting somehow more tolerable. Life is somehow sweeter after you've only tasted bitterness for so long.


So how did you get over it? How long did it take you? 
(Cause I'm still haunted by the thought of him with someone new, feeling great, relieved, over it, etc. Urgh, out with those thoughts!)


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

lucy mulholland said:


> So how did you get over it? How long did it take you?
> (Cause I'm still haunted by the thought of him with someone new, feeling great, relieved, over it, etc. Urgh, out with those thoughts!)


to get over it I: detached by doing my version of the 180, I see an individual counsellor and I try to go about life as usual again. The first 6 months were intense - roller coaster very good highs and very long sad lows, the next 6 months were productive, doing things for myself and learning how to trust in myself, I even started dating - year two out of the gate was difficult and sad, I have been quite depressed and mostly oh so lonely, but I persisted in trying to have a social life, and this website carried me through brilliantly. Exercise will do you wonders.

And when the opportunity to meet someone of the opposite sex you connect with happens you appreciate what that means - I am just over two years since Dday the wounds healed with time but I don't know if the scars will ever completely fade, but I don't care I just wear them proudly as signs of battle.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Yes, I can see your point. You chose to leave but you felt you had no choice b/c your wife wasn't doing anything to help or work on things herself. I see that that would be super challenging, though from my perspective I can't understand her indifference. Do you think she was just waiting or wanting you to do it?
> 
> How could she not care? Did you two go to counselling?
> 
> ...


We did go to counselling, maybe too late though. She would on the surface look like she was trying to beat her depression, she'd take her meds, visit the counsellor and then wash it all down with a bottle or 2 of red which then totally counter acted everything. Our mc told her in the last meeting that she was being manipulative in her approach to me and that she believed this was indicative of something other than depression and to discuss this with her IC, next visit her IC told her she didn't need to see her again.

I don't know what her reasons were or even if she knew, and I'm sure from her perspective I didn't do enough, I do wonder sometimes how much of a fog the meds for her depression created because she certainly has no idea of the pain and anguish I went through or what point my life with her had got to, leaving the 3 most beautiful kids in the world behind is the hardest thing i've ever had to do.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> How about my stbxh who said, as his break-up justification (after 9 years and a 6 year old?) - "I just put it out to the universe..."
> 
> 
> Like the universe is to blame for the break-up, it's not him


In other words, "I don't accept responsibility for this".

But it's not quite that easy. We all know people who always blame others for whatever has gone wrong. And of course in marriage difficulties blame shifting is a favourite activity. But in most cases those tactics don't really work. They don;t work for two reasons. 

First, although the person puts the blame on others deep down they usually know where blame really lies. And that eats them up inside, even if on the surface they really have convinced themselves that it isn't their fault. They can never really find peace, no matter how much of a brave face they put on it.

Second, people who don't take responsibility for their mistakes and misdeeds don't learn and grow. Their punishment is to repeat those mistakes over and over again.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> So how did you get over it? How long did it take you?
> (Cause I'm still haunted by the thought of him with someone new, feeling great, relieved, over it, etc. Urgh, out with those thoughts!)


Me to Lucy , me too . Makes me sick to the stomach .


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Lon said:


> to get over it I: detached by doing my version of the 180, I see an individual counsellor and I try to go about life as usual again. The first 6 months were intense - roller coaster very good highs and very long sad lows, the next 6 months were productive, doing things for myself and learning how to trust in myself, I even started dating - year two out of the gate was difficult and sad, I have been quite depressed and mostly oh so lonely, but I persisted in trying to have a social life, and this website carried me through brilliantly. Exercise will do you wonders.
> 
> And when the opportunity to meet someone of the opposite sex you connect with happens you appreciate what that means - I am just over two years since Dday the wounds healed with time but I don't know if the scars will ever completely fade, but I don't care I just wear them proudly as signs of battle.



Good on you Lon . I wish l was religious so l could say something like , God bless you


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> (Cause I'm still haunted by the thought of him with someone new)





whitehawk said:


> Me to Lucy , me too . Makes me sick to the stomach .


I just hope that the two of you never had to endure what I had to - photographic evidence of their adultery. I'll be haunted by those pictures in my head forever.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I just hope that the two of you never had to endure what I had to - photographic evidence of their adultery. I'll be haunted by those pictures in my head forever.



So sorry Voltaire . I hope that some day somehow they leave you in peace. Maybe some karma helps you out


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## mrtickle (Jan 29, 2013)

This thread really resonates for me, and I almost welled up when I read Voltaires post earlier in the thread as he could be describing my STBXW.

My ex has always had a habit of moaning/nagging about certain trivial things since we first met. They were never that much of an issue and only tended to really get brought to the fore following some other event (usually external, and usually some row between her and her sister/mum), and within an hour she was back to being calm and fine. It was this 'habit' which probably didn't jolt me into actually fixing some of the stuff, as I saw it as her just venting rather than being anything making her progressively unhappy.

But that said, I talked to her all the time about her issues, especially concerned with work and whenever she did want to talk about something troubling her I never dismissed her. I say 'talked' but really much of the time I 'listened' and provided emotional support, and at times this was borderline-excessive really. For example, I would get in from work and she would ask how my day was - so I would tell her that nothing much happened aside from a string of meetings and it was all pretty dull. I would then return the question about her day and then I would get a play-by-play breakdown of the whole day, with all the issues she encountered but blown up to be huge things which were stressing her out (in reality, much of them were just regular work issues), so I would talk about each one in turn, come up with some strategies for her, cuddle her when she got upset about them and so on. This conversation about her work would go on for most of the evening on-and-off, to the point where she was just repeating the same stuff over and over. The next day - rinse and repeat, and so on each evening (with occasional respites). At times her moaning about her job was incessant but I never turned her away or refused to talk about it, never said I wasn't interested as I was (although did try to urge her to put some of it out of her mind at home). The reason I'm saying all this is that one of the things on her laundry list of reasons she was 'unhappy' just before she left was "Your work rules your life and is intruding on our relationship", and "You never talk to me, or listen". It was so far from the truth that it was almost unreal to hear her say this stuff.

And since she has left, I have met with her a number of times and there are always tears. She has always been quite emotional but whilst I initially saw them as tears of sorrow, of guilt and even possibly remorse - I now realise they are tears for herself, as she is finding it difficult dealing with the situation she has architected along with the OM and some toxic friends. She isn't shedding any tears for me, checking how I am or showing any kind of worry or concern for my wellbeing. But all the time is wrapping everything up as being 'in my interests too' and how she had no option or choices but to leave an unhappy marriage. Her affair with OM doesn't come into the equation in her mind.

Her choice was to explain to me that she was genuinely unhappy (which I am not sure was even true anyway) and then we could take this list of trivial issues, prioritise them and knock them off one by one. She chose not to do that but to instead not only have an affair, but to use that affair as a springboard to walk away from me, the last 15 years we had been together and move into a new phase of her life which from the outside, I struggle to see any improvement on what she had before - quite the opposite. 

She may well 'wake up' at some point and realise her mistake but I'm not convinced. I think she has blame-shifted and rationalised so hard that she now believes the revised history herself. Its one of the things most maddening about it all.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Voltaire said:


> I just hope that the two of you never had to endure what I had to - photographic evidence of their adultery. I'll be haunted by those pictures in my head forever.


I saw pics, and yes they are horrible because all the horrible things you feel attach themselves to those specific images - they become a snapshot of the person you loved and trusted in the midst of their betrayal. If I hadn't seen those pics I would probably feel just as hurt and angry but without something to attach that anger to I probably would have been a lot more confused and disoriented. And as my scars fade so do the imprint of those images on my brain - and I've begun to replace those neural connections with my own images. They will be there forever, but in time they will stop haunting you.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

I saw pics too... posted all over the internet for every friend and family member to see. But I didn't see them until they had been "dating" for about 3 mths. When I confronted him he said they are "just friends". He got her pregnant. Just friends??

When I saw those pics for the first time my heart broke in two. Then I felt like throwing up. Seeing this skank woman with MY husband of 13 yrs, with tags like "with my love" and "hanging with my man"... No that's my husband you're hanging with. It was brutal to see that stuff.

I filed a week or so later.

The fact he was so insentive to my feelings by both of him putting those pics up for everyone to see, just makes me ill.

Especially since the entire time those pics were being taken and posted, him and I were trying to reconcile. Or should I say he was asking me to reconcile.


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## SurpriseMyself (Nov 14, 2009)

Sadwithtwolittlegirls said:


> PLEASE can someone that dumped their spouse explain to me.. cause when my STBEW told me she was sorry I felt she was full of crap, evil and cold.


I understand how mad you are, but realize that not all people cheat, lie, etc. I begged my husband for years, years, to work with me, to talk to me, to do things. We ended up fighting daily. Yelling, screaming. Our kids suffered. We went to a family counselor to help our daughter only to be told that the issue is our relationship and that the counselor won't even see our daughter until we fix our marriage. 

And yet my husband won't work with me. And then when I walk, now he's nice and wants to work on things. It's a ****ing mind game is what it is.

So not everyone who ends up leaving the marriage is the "dumper." Sometimes ending the marriage is what is best for everyone, just one person has to have the courage to do it.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

mrtickle said:


> This thread really resonates for me, and I almost welled up when I read Voltaires post earlier in the thread as he could be describing my STBXW.
> 
> My ex has always had a habit of moaning/nagging about certain trivial things since we first met. They were never that much of an issue and only tended to really get brought to the fore following some other event (usually external, and usually some row between her and her sister/mum), and within an hour she was back to being calm and fine. It was this 'habit' which probably didn't jolt me into actually fixing some of the stuff, as I saw it as her just venting rather than being anything making her progressively unhappy.
> 
> ...


My God. We're twins - or are STBXWs are.

I had exactly the same thing with work. She wpent hours every weekdays talking about it - in reality doing little more than moaning and whining. I listened patiently for hour after hour - quite literally. That took up so much of our time together that we didn't talk about too much else - looking back maybe that was part of the plan. 

The real icing on the cake is that she now claims that she "loves" that same job that she hated before.

I'm not as far advanced as you are in the process but mine too has COMPLETELY rewritten history and COMPLETELY believes it. She's even telling me that she didn't meet POSOM (or at least meet in person rather than online) until after she told me she wanted a divorce. I know for a fact that that is not true - but I think that she really believes it. Her re-writing is all based around the notion that it was my job to give, give, give 100% emotionally at all times and that it was my job to make her happy. She apparently had no responsibilities to reciprocate and the fact that she was cold and unapproachable is irrelevant. 

I haven't seen any tears from her yet, but her concerns are all completely selfish. And if she doesn't get her way on something - even something as insensitive as asking me to look after the kids so that she can go off with POSOM - then she tells herself that she is the victim and no wonder she is divorcing me since I am so unreasonable. Any sorrow she feels is entirely for herself.

It's just unbelievable. I'm trying to work out whether she was always like this (and I either missed it or was a complete doormat) or whether this is a new version of her.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

ebp123 said:


> And yet my husband won't work with me. And then when I walk, now he's nice and wants to work on things. It's a ****ing mind game is what it is.
> 
> So not everyone who ends up leaving the marriage is the "dumper." Sometimes ending the marriage is what is best for everyone, just one person has to have the courage to do it.


The problem is that this is exactly what WAWs say too - but it's not true in their case. 

When I my STBXW came out with this stuff I asked her what she had actually done to try to improve our marriage or to fix things. She replied, with a rare bit of honesty "nothing. I just gave up" 

She also says that she is being demonised because she was the one who was brave enough to end the marriage (conveniently leaving aside the EMs and the secrecy). IMO walking was the easy decision. Staying to fight for your marriage is the tough brave decision.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

Voltaire said:


> The problem is that this is exactly what WAWs say too - but it's not true in their case.
> 
> When I my STBXW came out with this stuff I asked her what she had actually done to try to improve our marriage or to fix things. She replied, with a rare bit of honesty "nothing. I just gave up"
> 
> She also says that she is being demonised because she was the one who was brave enough to end the marriage (conveniently leaving aside the EMs and the secrecy). IMO walking was the easy decision. Staying to fight for your marriage is the tough brave decision.


That may well be true in your case but staying and fighting until you destroy yourself and your kids isn't smart and as a general rule dumpers are demonised sometimes justified...sometimes not


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## Dadwithtwolittlegirls (Jul 23, 2012)

I will say one thing... 

My stbxw actually apologized TWICE for being a jerk on the phone last week. She never apologizes for ANYTHING. Of course I didn't respond as how is that supposed to help me on my journey.

I'm glad to know that her therapy must be helping her as in 17 years she might have apologized 3 or 4 times for ANYTHING .

Good.. she can be nicer to the next guy she dumps rather than how she dumped me.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

brokenbythis said:


> I saw pics too... posted all over the internet for every friend and family member to see. But I didn't see them until they had been "dating" for about 3 mths. When I confronted him he said they are "just friends". He got her pregnant. Just friends??
> 
> When I saw those pics for the first time my heart broke in two. Then I felt like throwing up. Seeing this skank woman with MY husband of 13 yrs, with tags like "with my love" and "hanging with my man"... No that's my husband you're hanging with. It was brutal to see that stuff.
> 
> ...



Gees , when you put it like that . Mine was doing coffees in the main street with him every Saturday morning , talking to everyone - 2 weeks after destroying her family .
Even though I certainly fd up before we separated , I did truly want to save us and make a mends.
But her doing that , hell maybe l should have filed straight away like you did. What she was doing is just as bad . Maybe I've been a damn fool giving us any hope , me.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> The problem is that this is exactly what WAWs say too - but it's not true in their case.
> 
> When I my STBXW came out with this stuff I asked her what she had actually done to try to improve our marriage or to fix things. She replied, with a rare bit of honesty "nothing. I just gave up"
> 
> She also says that she is being demonised because she was the one who was brave enough to end the marriage (conveniently leaving aside the EMs and the secrecy). IMO walking was the easy decision. Staying to fight for your marriage is the tough brave decision.



Yep that's right . Like I said to mine - what you think all those olde couples out there haven't been through 10 times what we have . What you think they just all get a long better than we do , you think that's the difference.
The difference is a lot of them have been to hell and back together , my parents sure did. 
But they didn't "quit" , that's the difference.
They were together 56yrs and went full circle 2or 3 times but passed away in love again.
Her parents have been together 45yrs , they both said it has been very hard at times but they haven't quit either . They've also been through 10 times what we did.

We were a great couple for most of our time . All we had to do was not quit , a little bit of work and our next cycle would have brought us back. 
Makes me that fkg angry !


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

She hates it when I say she quit.
But fk that she did quit and I've damn well told her in no uncertain terms she quit.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

thisSux said:


> That may well be true in your case but staying and fighting until you destroy yourself and your kids isn't smart and as a general rule dumpers are demonised sometimes justified...sometimes not[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> Yeah and this is true . If we were one of those couples I would have preferred to split. We've known a few people that split and should have .
> ...


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

She will feel bad if I ever get a chance to tell her future partners to get ready to compete with her family. It may take a while but they will eventually be kicked to the curb.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

thisSux said:


> That may well be true in your case but staying and fighting until you destroy yourself and your kids isn't smart and as a general rule dumpers are demonised sometimes justified...sometimes not


What if the dumper never wanted to talk about the problems we were having? What if she was always unavailable - emotionally, spiritually and physically? What if she refuses both the IC and MC her own doctors and husband were begging her to seek?

When she proclaimed her desire to divorce she said the same thing you just said. It might be true in some cases but reading around here on TAM they are rare. 

This is why you always hear it takes two to make it work. It's also why being the one left behind while also the only one working on the marriage really sucks.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> This is why you always hear it takes two to make it work. It's also why being the one left behind while also the only one working on the marriage really sucks.


Truth!!! :iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

thisSux said:


> I don't know what her reasons were or even if she knew, and I'm sure from her perspective I didn't do enough,


Yeah, that's a tricky thing for me. One of his "reasons" when he left was, "I'm not even sure why."

Why would you leave if you weren't sure why? Apart form the immature panic of just running away form conflict?

And then to think that now he "knows" why (ie. has invented enough justification and got support for it) is so gross.

I guess the difference between us, TS, is that you were the one trying and fighting and you had to admit defeat, and I feel for you. I was trying and trying and waiting and hoping and then was left. 

Sometimes I regret not leaving first, but I was committed and never gave up on hope...

I feel for you all - this is so hard either way you look at it - and most of us are here because we care(d) and tried so hard.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Yeah, that's a tricky thing for me. One of his "reasons" when he left was, "I'm not even sure why."
> 
> .


Sadly, that's about the most honest answer you could hope for.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

But how can you leave if you're not sure why? How do you know you want to leave for solid reasons, not a whim?

It makes me sick to my stomach to think about, partly, Ceegee, because you're right. It may have been the most honest thing he's said.

Feels pretty pathetic to be left, though, by someone who doesn't even know why. Like you don't even deserve a real answer following self-reflection (saying nothing of the real work that goes into a marriage...like let's at least try for a while and uncover some of the reasons, then you can choose to leave if you must...)


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

I know I won't feel bad. I left and divorced a serial cheater.


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> But how can you leave if you're not sure why? How do you know you want to leave for solid reasons, not a whim?
> 
> It makes me sick to my stomach to think about, partly, Ceegee, because you're right. It may have been the most honest thing he's said.
> 
> Feels pretty pathetic to be left, though, by someone who doesn't even know why. Like you don't even deserve a real answer following self-reflection (saying nothing of the real work that goes into a marriage...like let's at least try for a while and uncover some of the reasons, then you can choose to leave if you must...)


Sorry, Lucy, couldn't tell you. That's why we're all here, though, isn't it?


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

Did everyone here give and get some kind of a promise that you would stay together for "better or worse" forever even those of you that strayed and are willing try to work to keep your promise?

Which one of you has not kept that promise? I sure as hell did!

Look, I could have been a better spouse, acknowledged that she was hurting, unhappy but NEVER not loved. When she got my attention, that is when her promise to me should have been honored. Work on our marriage, rekindle our romantic love, recommit to forever. 

That did not happen, she quit, she broke her promise but in a strange way I continued to keep my promise because I still worked on the things I needed to do to be a better husband and still do today.

Friends, If you kept your promise keep your head high, work on yourself and look to the future. There is nothing you can do about yesterday, only today for a better tomorrow.

Look in the damn mirror and tell yourself you are a good person and getting better, a good partner and getting better, a good parent and getting better and embrace the new life you have a head of you. It's going to be better than OK, it is going to be great because of US.

C'mon people, we can be awesome,
Stretch


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> But how can you leave if you're not sure why? How do you know you want to leave for solid reasons, not a whim?


All I got was "I haven't been happy for a long time". Any further questions to try to get more info were, apparently, "aggressive cross examination" and "giving me the third degree". 

The thing that she still hasn't worked out is that it is not up to me (or OM for that matter) to make her happy. Your own happiness is your own responsibility. It needs to come from within. If you try to rely on anything outside you (even a loving spouse) to make you happy then there is something very wrong and you are destined to leave an unhappy and unsatisfying life.


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## lostLove77 (Jan 25, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> This whole thread is really cathartic to read - so many of us with shared devastation (and then, like you lostlove, those who give us the perspective from the other side.)
> 
> Thanks for this.


I wouldn't say I'm from the other side, she left but I know I made mistakes, I'm ashamed of them but will better myself.

I know she still cares for me deeply but she did leave.


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## Awakening2012 (Apr 13, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> The thing that she still hasn't worked out is that it is not up to me (or OM for that matter) to make her happy. Your own happiness is your own responsibility. It needs to come from within. If you try to rely on anything outside you (even a loving spouse) to make you happy then there is something very wrong and you are destined to leave an unhappy and unsatisfying life.


So true -- thanks for this Volt! When I get nostalgic feelings for STBXH, it also helps me to tell myself, *"I don't want to be married to a man who doesn't want to be a husband to me."*

Best, A12


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

I've just been reading another thread (about cheaters doing things that they will do with APs that they would never do with their spouses - both sexually and otherwise). Someone on there was saying very eloquently that an affair is a deliberate act of emotional abuse, often borne out of anger or disappointment that the marriage did not live up to their unrealistic expectations. In keeping with the theme of that thread the poster was also saying that enjoying a sex act with the AP that they never enjoyed or did with the spouse was also a deliberately spiteful act. 

It's a generalisation, but I can believe that it is very true in many cases.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

Stretch said:


> Did everyone here give and get some kind of a promise that you would stay together for "better or worse" forever even those of you that strayed and are willing try to work to keep your promise?
> 
> Which one of you has not kept that promise? I sure as hell did!
> 
> ...


I always felt the promise was far broader, i always felt that we'd promised to love each other honour each other through whatever came our way, If she chose to show no love, emotion or even interest and chose not to work on the marriage but i chose to walk away...who broke that promise??


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> I've just been reading another thread (about cheaters doing things that they will do with APs that they would never do with their spouses - both sexually and otherwise). Someone on there was saying very eloquently that an affair is a deliberate act of emotional abuse, often borne out of anger or disappointment that the marriage did not live up to their unrealistic expectations. In keeping with the theme of that thread the poster was also saying that enjoying a sex act with the AP that they never enjoyed or did with the spouse was also a deliberately spiteful act.
> 
> It's a generalisation, but I can believe that it is very true in many cases.



Yes, and it's that passive-agressive crap that the leavers so often want to use - I couldn't talk to you like a reasonable person about this, so I've resented you for years and now I'm going to make you pay (by leaving, by having an affair, by generally acting like a ****). 

This may be too much info, but my ex even pulled a new sex move on me the last time we were intimate (but after he told me he wanted to leave)...it was like...just so you know...I'm going to be different NOW. not for you. for others.

ewww.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Awakening2012 said:


> So true -- thanks for this Volt! When I get nostalgic feelings for STBXH, it also helps me to tell myself, *"I don't want to be married to a man who doesn't want to be a husband to me."*
> 
> Best, A12


It's one of the harshest things, because it's the naked truth, but it is true and can help us so much. Think about it. 

You don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you - who doesn't care about marriage, your feelings, or whatever other reasons that person has given for not staying. No matter how you look at it, you shouldn't have to convince someone to stay with you. 

You are worth someone who wants to be with you even when it's not all roses, and there are people like that out there. Lots of them. Your ex is not one of them, and whoever wants that kind of unreliable, uncaring treatment can have it.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Voltaire said:


> All I got was "I haven't been happy for a long time". Any further questions to try to get more info were, apparently, "aggressive cross examination" and "giving me the third degree".
> 
> The thing that she still hasn't worked out is that it is not up to me (or OM for that matter) to make her happy. Your own happiness is your own responsibility. It needs to come from within. If you try to rely on anything outside you (even a loving spouse) to make you happy then there is something very wrong and you are destined to leave an unhappy and unsatisfying life.


Conclusion, now that I'm feeling a little stronger: people who leave without giving a reason (or saying "I don't know why) are just weak and confused and most of all, disrespectful.

Not that the reasons are ever really going to make sense to the person who doesn't want to be left (which is why leaving is so harsh), but you as the dumpee at least deserve the respect of a somewhat thoughtful and considerate answer from the person who said they would stick it out with you through thick and thin. A little bit of a sign that this is a big deal that's going to uproot your life.

We aren't three year olds - we deserve a mature adult conversation from the leaver. Whether we choose to accept it or not is the next hurdle in the whole mess.

The only thing I can imagine as an exception to this would have to do with one person changing (or discovering) their sexual orientation. Again, though, this would demand sensitivity and respect when they go to tell their partner they can't stay. NOt bull**** blame on the other person.


Or, you get the kind of acrimonious situation I'm in, where the leaver is cavalier and heartless and the left-behind is hurt, angry and shocked. Doesn't help with negotiating ANYTHING.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

lucy mulholland said:


> Yes, and it's that *passive-agressive crap that the leavers so often want to use *- *I couldn't talk to you like a reasonable person about this, so I've resented you for years and now I'm going to make you pay (by leaving, by having an affair, by generally acting like a ****). *
> 
> This may be too much info, but my ex even pulled a new sex move on me the last time we were intimate (but after he told me he wanted to leave)...it was like...just so you know...I'm going to be different NOW. not for you. for others.
> 
> ewww.


This is my ex all over. Massively passive agressive. Always has been, always will be. Sometimes PAgressiveness is the worst type of mental abuse one can inflict.

I'm going to make you pay by.... all those things. Yes he did those too. In that order.

The OW can have him. I don't want a broken, messed up SOB like him a minute longer.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

lostLove77 said:


> I wouldn't say I'm from the other side, she left but I know I made mistakes, I'm ashamed of them but will better myself.
> 
> I know she still cares for me deeply but she did leave.



Same for me Lost , effd up big time. Thing is, l realized before and l was really looking forward to making it up to her.
We would have been fine and she would have had lots of serious spoiling to enjoy.
I know it becomes about trust but it's pretty hard restoring it on your own.

I'm not sure where W is at but she has said a hundred times this is the hardest thing she's ever ever done and that she has effd up so much.
I'm sure she to cries for us and all this deep down, that l am sure of.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> I've just been reading another thread (about cheaters doing things that they will do with APs that they would never do with their spouses - both sexually and otherwise). Someone on there was saying very eloquently that an affair is a deliberate act of emotional abuse, often borne out of anger or disappointment that the marriage did not live up to their unrealistic expectations. In keeping with the theme of that thread the poster was also saying that enjoying a sex act with the AP that they never enjoyed or did with the spouse was also a deliberately spiteful act.
> 
> It's a generalisation, but I can believe that it is very true in many cases.



I can understand that . My EA was along these lines only on an emotional level .
You both become bogged down in lifes crap and habits form l guess .
But the mistake like me you can make is thinking the habits are sort of closed doors now but when really , those doors haven't closed at all , you just think they have.
But they are only coping mechanisms and often the spouse would love for you to open the doors again all along.

Hmm , does that make sense -


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

When I get nostalgic feelings for STBXH, it also helps me to tell myself, *"I don't want to be married to a man who doesn't want to be a husband to me."*

Best, A12[/QUOTE]

I'd like to frame this and glue to my brain A12 .


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> But the mistake like me you can make is thinking the habits are sort of closed doors now but when really , those doors haven't closed at all , you just think they have.
> But they are only coping mechanisms and often the spouse would love for you to open the doors again all along.
> 
> Hmm , does that make sense -


It more than makes sense...it's a very eloquent description of so many problems in marriage - so many of those unresolved issues that grow and grow until they sadly lead us here one way or another. 

Thanks for that.


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

lucy mulholland said:


> Conclusion, now that I'm feeling a little stronger: people who leave without giving a reason (or saying "I don't know why) are just weak and confused and most of all, disrespectful.
> 
> Not that the reasons are ever really going to make sense to the person who doesn't want to be left (which is why leaving is so harsh), but you as the dumpee at least deserve the respect of a somewhat thoughtful and considerate answer from the person who said they would stick it out with you through thick and thin. A little bit of a sign that this is a big deal that's going to uproot your life.


Exactly. When I said exactly that to my STBXW - that I at least deserved the respect of a full answer - she just shrugged. She honestly didn't seem to get it. She was walking away and that was that as far as she was concerned - nothing else to say, no other dues to pay, nothing owed to me from the moment she said "it's over". And then when she wants something from me she has the gall to say "for the sake of our 17 years of marriage..."



lucy mulholland said:


> Or, you get the kind of acrimonious situation I'm in, where the leaver is cavalier and heartless and the left-behind is hurt, angry and shocked. Doesn't help with negotiating ANYTHING.


Sounds VERY familiar. More and more, though, I'm trying to see her not as a cavalier and callous adult but as a selfish teenager who knows that she is leaving an absolute car crash in her wake but who is too scared to stand up and take any responsibility. She just runs away from it all. She is incapable of seeing any perspective but her own. When I point out her responsibilities or call her on bad behaviour I can almost hear her thinking "this is SOOOOOO UNFAIR" and she clearly feels that she is being victimised simply by being held to account. 

In my case there is also the way that she is carrying on with OM whilst living under the same roof as me. She sees absolutely nothing wrong or disrespectful about this at all (or about starting the affair immediately after saying she wanted a divorce, or about lying about it). Her attitude is: we're over, she's moved on, what's the problem? (and any problem must be MY problem). And her starry-eyed view of the love of her life is pure teenage fantasy too. the laughable thing is that she cannot see that he is a classic narcissistic commitment-phobe who will dump her as soon as he is bored or she asks him to change his bachelor boy lifestyle to be more committed. 

But like a teenager she knows too on some level that she is behaving badly but simply tries to avoid anything or anyone who will make her confront this. Sticks with people who "understand her" rather than old friends. 

All classic teenage behaviour/mindset from a woman in her 40s. 
I guess we're all capable of a bit of teenage behaviour at times, but not for weeks on end and not about something as important as this. 

Will she ever snap out of it, or is this perspective she is locked into for the rest of her life (at least as far as this is concerned)?


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> It more than makes sense...it's a very eloquent description of so many problems in marriage - so many of those unresolved issues that grow and grow until they sadly lead us here one way or another.
> 
> Thanks for that.


Why thank you Volt and to you too because your so right . Sadly , if we're not careful well , here we are .


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

My ex is the ultimate in avoiding responsibility. He's now even gone so far as to call me an abuser.....not sure why...he left, I tried for over 2 months to be open to reconciliation, then he did a number of disrespectful things that had me take off my ring, realize he wasn't coming around and that I didn't want him to...then I got angry. I've certainly sent emails that are harsh and tell him how I feel... but I'm no abuser.

But I forget, he thinks he's the perpetual victim here. I "forced" him to leave.

And now we have mediation this morning to try to hammer out more details. 

Wish me luck...or...something...self-composure? Detachment?


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## Northern Monkey (May 2, 2013)

I'm yet to see any introspection from my stbx. She gets unhappy that I "forced her" to cut and run or that i wasn't good enough.

So yeah, she feels bad, but in a hard done by way even though its all been her choice and her schedule.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> My ex is the ultimate in avoiding responsibility. He's now even gone so far as to call me an abuser.....not sure why...he left, I tried for over 2 months to be open to reconciliation, then he did a number of disrespectful things that had me take off my ring, realize he wasn't coming around and that I didn't want him to...then I got angry. I've certainly sent emails that are harsh and tell him how I feel... but I'm no abuser.
> 
> But I forget, he thinks he's the perpetual victim here. I "forced" him to leave.
> 
> ...



Good luck Lucy and don't forget the hammer :smthumbup:


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## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

My best friend told me a few days ago that his wife had received an email from my ex. I was surprised by this as the two never got along. My wife would never answer her phone calls, return phone calls or emails. It was always quite embarrassing to me that she would treat my best friends wife this way.

Anyway, he goes on to tell me that she wrote her to tell her that she hopes that everyone knows that this was not all her fault. That she had to leave for her mental and physical well being. That I share just as much responsibility in the failure of our marriage as she does. 

This is funny to me. All along, even before the divorce, everything was my fault. She never hinted that she accepted any responsibility in anything. Even in counseling all she did was accuse and roll her eyes at anything I brought up. 

So by informing people, now, that I was just as responsible as she was she is admitting that she was just as much to blame as I was. I wonder if she sees the irony in that? I wonder if she gets it now?


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

thisSux said:


> I always felt the promise was far broader, i always felt that we'd promised to love each other honour each other through whatever came our way, If she chose to show no love, emotion or even interest and chose not to work on the marriage but i chose to walk away...who broke that promise??


I suppose we all have our breaking point. If my post seemed judgemental of your situation, please accept my apology. That is not my place.

I suspect that some people like your WS make the promise for the wrong reasons or do not understand the depth of the committment or are too lazy to do the work.

Sincerely,
Stretch


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## Snow cherry (Apr 24, 2013)

I can't speak for how a woman could just get up and leave a marriage that isn't abusive and whether there is remorse later...but what I'll never understand is when a H or W leaves the kids behind to start a new life alone or with someone new...I don't get how they can wake up every morning and even look at themselves in the mirror. It's like the people who kill for money. How can they enjoy spending the money knowing how they got it?


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

Stretch said:


> I suppose we all have our breaking point. If my post seemed judgemental of your situation, please accept my apology. That is not my place.
> 
> I suspect that some people like your WS make the promise for the wrong reasons or do not understand the depth of the committment or are too lazy to do the work.
> 
> ...


I never felt you were judgmental. I just feel that people only ever refer to the vows, when there is a breakup but they don't get a look in during the marriage


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

thisSux said:


> I always felt the promise was far broader, i always felt that we'd promised to love each other honour each other through whatever came our way, If she chose to show no love, emotion or even interest and chose not to work on the marriage but i chose to walk away...who broke that promise??



I have the same dilemma - who really broke our promise .
We did a 15 or something page thread in here about my situation but honestly, a mth or two later, l'm back to confused again now.

I just need it for anger , myself , moving on !


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Voltaire said:


> Exactly. When I said exactly that to my STBXW - that I at least deserved the respect of a full answer - she just shrugged. She honestly didn't seem to get it. She was walking away and that was that as far as she was concerned - nothing else to say, no other dues to pay, nothing owed to me from the moment she said "it's over". And then when she wants something from me she has the gall to say "for the sake of our 17 years of marriage..."
> 
> 
> Sounds VERY familiar. More and more, though, I'm trying to see her not as a cavalier and callous adult but as a selfish teenager who knows that she is leaving an absolute car crash in her wake but who is too scared to stand up and take any responsibility. She just runs away from it all. She is incapable of seeing any perspective but her own. When I point out her responsibilities or call her on bad behaviour I can almost hear her thinking "this is SOOOOOO UNFAIR" and she clearly feels that she is being victimised simply by being held to account.
> ...



Is she still living there doing that Volt , kick her out !
I know this can be very very complicated and sometimes not as simple as that but , that's just heartbreaking unfair on you bs.

Look , I'll be the first to admit , I very very painfully for my x fkd up so big time.
But it wasn't all just cut and dry.
But when she told me she wanted to separate , it's like she was just fine now to go ahead with exactly what yours did, while still under this roof and coming home to me and my daughter.
I was dumbfounded , and she acted like she was too - but we're separated !
Oh , of course , well that's ok then.

I told her if she see's him again while she's still under this roof [waiting 6wks to move into her new rental ] then do not fkg come back .

As far as I know , she didn't see him again in that time .


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Snow cherry said:


> I can't speak for how a woman could just get up and leave a marriage that isn't abusive and whether there is remorse later...but what I'll never understand is when a H or W leaves the kids behind to start a new life alone or with someone new...I don't get how they can wake up every morning and even look at themselves in the mirror. It's like the people who kill for money. How can they enjoy spending the money knowing how they got it?




I will NEVER , get the kids thing either.
My x was the worst over mother you'd ever find . She'd do anything , for our girl.

Yet - wtf about our family , our daughter for fk sake , have you lost your mind ?
Her response , oh she'll be right . 50% of all marriages break up eventually . Kids suck it up , they get use to it !

That's what she said !


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

"Yet - wtf about our family , our daughter for fk sake , have you lost your mind ?
Her response , oh she'll be right . 50% of all marriages break up eventually . Kids suck it up , they get use to it !

That's what she said !"



Unfortunately in our divorce culture it just keeps perpetuating itself - "my parents divorced and i turned out okay," "everyone's doing it," etc. So many kids in school to "relate". 

And sure, in the end, the kids don't die. Gotcha. But it IS devastating, every situation is different, and it's just what the leavers have to tell themselves to help deal with their guilt.

There are very few situation where marriages are unworkable - obviously abusive ones. But when one person wants to work on things the other doesn't...that's a hard life lesson for the kids to grow up around. one person clearly isn't thinking about what's best for the kids, because in most cases, divorce isn't. 

No matter how common it is.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Basically, these people did us a freakin FAVOR by leaving/dumping/whatever.
> 
> I like to think that he knows *I'm too good for his sorry ass *so he let me go...because in this one week since he moved out (separated 4 months), although the first night was hard, it's been AMAZING. Dang. No more worrying about what he's doing online/phone/where he is/etc. I just let him go....hard to do for many BUT I remind myself that he LIED about ever loving me...and probably CHEATED and after the shet talking convo I saw online with his ex, he can kiss my ass.
> 
> ...


This is how I will remember my STBXH. Sad, pathetic master of his own miserable destiny.

I told him today I want NC. He went into apologies ie: for wrecking our relationship, for hurting me. I said talk to the hand. None of it means [email protected] anymore. He had plenty of opportunity to make it right, instead he ran off and distracted himself banging skanks, posting his exploits all over facebook for everyone we know to see and boasting about it. My ex can suck it too.


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## thisSux (Jan 8, 2013)

seagoat said:


> Not knowing anything about your past relationship, but was your wife involved in all this relationship fixing you did? Did she know about your feelings? Or was this all going on in your head, and in conversations between you and your friends, without letting the wife in?
> !


absolutely not I made sure she knew how i felt a long time before i left, she just couldn't see the need to make improvements


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## Voltaire (Feb 5, 2013)

whitehawk said:


> Is she still living there doing that Volt , kick her out !
> I know this can be very very complicated and sometimes not as simple as that but , that's just heartbreaking unfair on you bs.


WH, sorry I didnt reply t this earlier - must have overlooked it when posting on multiple threads - sometimes it gets too much! Apologies

I would love to do that but she has a legal right to live in the house. If I tried to deny her rights I could end up being the one excluded from the house by the court.






whitehawk said:


> But when she told me she wanted to separate , it's like she was just fine now to go ahead with exactly what yours did, while still under this roof and coming home to me and my daughter.
> I was dumbfounded , and she acted like she was too - but we're separated !
> Oh , of course , well that's ok then.


Same story. When I told mine that she was being utterly disrespectful of the marriage she behaved as if this was an abusive statement on my part. Thinks that it's perfectly OK to do what she wants. I think her reasoning is that if it's legal it must be moral, decent and respectful too.


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