# Being cheated & Controlled



## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

I am writing today because I feel I am being cheated and controlled.

For starters, my wife and I used to have a very active sex life. She was very orgasmic and would initiate it as often as I would - even setting the alarm clock at 4 am. 

Since about 2 years after our last kid was born sex has diminished substantially. This is now 5 years. I chalked it up to fatigue, new job, hormones, etc., but the reality is she does not want to be with me intimately. I have done the self - help route (especially the Married Man's Sex Life Forum). I've gotten in better shape than I was when we got married - so much so that ladies I have known for years are being substantially more flirtatious with me and flat out making me offers. She has gained a lot of weight and chalks some of the issues up to her self body image.

I feel like I am being controlled and cheated. Basically, my sex life choices are masturbation & once every 2 weeks (she is off work every other weekend - she works at a hospital). If I stray, I am the bad guy. But I need that physical intimacy. And every 2 weeks is nowhere near enough. I would be fine with a couple times a week, but since I have gotten in such good shape I am horny all the time. 

It is bad when ladies are walking up to me, flirtatiously rubbing my shoulders and saying things like, "God you are looking good, I'll bet you are getting it all the time" and the answer would be a flat "no." 

This weekend was the worst. First off, I have no problems with sex toys nor masturbation. I really don't mind if she uses them in bed and or we do mutual masturbation. I know it has been more difficult for her to orgasm recently and she has put me in a catch 22 on that. If I try to get her to orgasm, I am putting pressure on her. If I don't, I am being selfish. I love giving oral sex and wish she would reciprocate like she used to. So, why was this weekend so bad. Saturday night (our once every 2 weeks) was pretty good. I know she didn't orgasm and I offered to get out her sex toy, but she did not want to. 

The next morning (Sunday) I was very happy and flirtatious with her. I roughhoused with the kids, worked out, did some repairs around the house and cleaned up the kitchen. She claimed to be tired and spent most of the day on the couch (though she did fix dinner). In the morning I kissed her and offered to return the favor in whatever way she wanted. She said she was tired. Throughout the day I was flirtatious and when it was getting close to 9 pm I asked if she would like me to join her in bed. She said, "It is not you, I am tired." 

OK, I can respect that. Unfortunately, I happened to look in her sex toy drawer earlier in the evening. She went to bed and I headed up to bed about an hour later. I don't know why I thought of it, but I looked in the drawer and saw that she had used her vibrator - it was in a different place and there really isn't anything else in the drawer. Again, I don't have a problem with masturbation, in fact I encourage it. But when I am clearly desiring the physical intimacy and and turned down only to find out she masturbated, it hurts. It hurts that she lied to me and it hurts that she would rather do that solo than spend time with me. 

Of course I confronted her on this and she said that by tracking her masturbating I was bullying her. She also said she just needed a "Quick release" and didn't want to spend an hour having sex. Wasn't that what I offered?

Before some of you chime in - I have read this forum a lot and am positing for the first time, please save me some of the dumb comments. 

First, it is very clear that if a guy turns down his wife and then masturbates it is "his fault" because he has a porn addiction or something. (I am taking this from comments on the board)

Second, I make every effort to try to please her. It is never wham bam thank you ma'am unless that is what she wants. So please spare me the "You're not good enough in bed" comments or the "you need to go down on her more" comments. 

Also, I have run the Map. I am so close to walking out the door but there are 3 other lives involved other than my wife and I. I know the statistics of children of divorced parents and I don't want to do that to me kids - IF it can be avoided. 

I honestly feel she is pushing me to an affair - either because she doesn't care or because she wants me to be the bad guy. One thing I wont do from the MMSLF is send letters to her family saying why I am leaving just like I won't badmouth her on social media. I don't think it is constructive. 

Somehow she has gotten mentally skewed in the bedroom and I don't know why. If she gives me a blowjob, she feels like she is being subservient. If I am aggressive in bed or wake her up in the middle of the night for sex, I am "forcing" myself on her. 

I don't think she wants divorce and she keeps putting things off. We have tried two different marriage counselors, but she has quit both of them (and in all honestly, I didn't see them as helping). 

How can I get her to wake up before I walk out? Or is it hopeless and I will never have the loving sex life with her again.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I think the key is to find out why she's turned off by marital sex.

Ok, it sounds like you are doing most of the right things. You haven't let yourself go. Your not overbearing. Your not an A-H0le about it.
You contribute your fare share of the household.

So. Why is your wife denying you. Try to get inside her head.
Is she seeking control? Is she turned off by something specific going on? Is there resentment about something? Is she pushing you towards divorce? (you already said no, but think about it more). Is she just plain being mean and unhappy?

Try to think about this; if she was with her closest FF and was discussing sex, what do you think she would say?

I know you can't mind read, but you've already confronted her and she's evasive so you're going to have to do some mind reading and analysis.

BECAUSE............................

Depending on what the real answer is, will dictate your course of action


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evenign beingpushedaway
this is a common and really awful problem. Read the numerous HD/LD threads here.

It very likely isn't in any way your fault or anything you are or are not doing. It rarely gets better. Unless your wife is willing to work on it your choices basically are:

leave
cheat
live like a monk. 

They are all bad choices.


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## Blonde (Jan 7, 2013)

> If I am aggressive in bed or wake her up in the middle of the night for sex, I am "forcing" myself on her.


 I wonder if your feelings of being cheated and controlled are projection? To me, cheating me of sleep and forcing sex is controlling (and is considered abusive, look it up).

I suggest you send her a very brief e-mail:

"Please look at this website. Would you be willing to attend with me?". Marriage Help Program For Couples


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Before some of you chime in - I have read this forum a lot and am positing for the first time, please save me some of the dumb comments.
> 
> First, it is very clear that if a guy turns down his wife and then masturbates it is "his fault" because he has a porn addiction or something. (I am taking this from comments on the board)
> 
> ...


Hello, Beingpushedaway

When you come on a forum, ask for advice, and then add "please save me some of the dumb comments," it seems like you are not really looking for advice. What you consider a dumb comment may be great advice in the mind of the poster responding to your plight.

You just have to wade through the not so great advice you receive to get to the pearls of wisdom.

So besides that, I have some suggestions.

1) Stop putting yourself in positions where other women are flirting with you. If, for instance, one sneaks up behind you and starts rubbing your shoulders, shut it down right then and there.

2) In regards to you "making every effort to please her," just STOP. Stop worrying about her enjoying it. Stop making efforts for her enjoyment. Stop helping around the house so much. Stop being so attentive to her. Go find a hobby or do even more stuff with your kids.

3) If you've run a MAP and you're near the end, perhaps a frank and honest conversation with your wife is in order. Tell her where you're at with respect to the relationship, and what changes you need in order to keep going.

4) No one is "forcing" you to have an affair. Only you can choose to damage yourself and your family in that particular manner.

5) What you see as flirtatious behavior? Your wife may see it as desperation, and women HATEHATEHATE desperation. You might want to dial back on the flirty behavior with her, too. Or at least figure out how SHE perceives it.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Did you tell your wife flat out that if she didn't open up and talk about this and/or increase physical intimacy that you were considering leaving or having an affair? 

You'd be surprised at how many people don't really know how their partner is feeling. She probably doesn't know you are this frustrated that you are thinking of an affair. Is it going to hurt her feelings? Yep. Could is save your marriage? Yep. 

Tell her EXACTLY how you feel. Don't sugar coat anything because that's not going to help anything. Lay out what you need (hell, write it down if you need to) and ask her to do the same. 

Find out if she is holding any resentments toward you. I know you said you don't do anything wrong and you're dynamite in bed...but does she think that? Emotionally is she okay? Is she mad at you for something that's happened? 

There could be a million reasons. I think marriage counseling or a sex therapist would help....and HONESTY with her. Just tell her you haven't had an affair, but the lack of intimacy between you two is making you consider a separation - or whatever you're willing/thinking about doing. 

It never helps to dance around things this serious. And thinking about an affair is serious.

P.S. It wouldn't be her fault. She wouldn't be "pushing' you to an affair. You have full control of yourself. Only YOU can choose to do that. You can also choose to leave because physical intimacy is very important in a relationship. You have a few choices. Some are worse than others.


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## shalom_82 (Nov 23, 2014)

It sounds to me like you really want to have an affair and you are looking for ways to justify it. You are trying to stop yourself but your story reminds me of addicts who recognizes they have a problem but don't want to go through rehab/other programs. It's time to be honest with yourself.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Jorgegene,

Thank you for your reply. Sadly one thing may be part of the problem. Her best friend is her mother. Outside of the occasional feminine hygiene commercial, do women really talk about sex issues with their mother? Do 45 year old women talk about them with their 84 year old mothers? 

I do know that conversations she has had in the past with them are much different than they are now. She once had a friend tell her "I'm married now, I don't have to give blowjobs." 15 years ago when I heard that I thought, "I don't want to be married to that person." Now I think I am.



jorgegene said:


> I think the key is to find out why she's turned off by marital sex.
> 
> Ok, it sounds like you are doing most of the right things. You haven't let yourself go. Your not overbearing. Your not an A-H0le about it.
> You contribute your fare share of the household.
> ...


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Seems kinda like a one-sided response. It was ok for my wife to set the alarm for 4 am to have sex (thereby cheating me out of sleep) when she wanted it, but I can't do the same?

There was never a forced act. The simple act of me rolling over on top of her she considers forced. Has your husband ever crawled on top of you with an erection in your marriage? Did you consider that "forced."



Blonde said:


> I wonder if your feelings of being cheated and controlled are projection? To me, cheating me of sleep and forcing sex is controlling (and is considered abusive, look it up).
> 
> I suggest you send her a very brief e-mail:
> 
> "Please look at this website. Would you be willing to attend with me?". Marriage Help Program For Couples


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

shalom_82 said:


> It sounds to me like you really want to have an affair and you are looking for ways to justify it. You are trying to stop yourself but your story reminds me of addicts who recognizes they have a problem but don't want to go through rehab/other programs. It's time to be honest with yourself.


This is one example of what I mean about a dumb comment. I haven't cheated but feel I am being pushed that way. Wanting to have sex more than once every 2 weeks or every month isn't an addiction.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

just to get this out of the way - is she on hormonal contraceptives (pill, IUD)? On some women they can have that effect of killing libido (it did it for me)


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

NotLikeYou said:


> Hello, Beingpushedaway
> 
> When you come on a forum, ask for advice, and then add "please save me some of the dumb comments," it seems like you are not really looking for advice. What you consider a dumb comment may be great advice in the mind of the poster responding to your plight.
> 
> ...


Funny thing is, she doesn't notice the flirtatious behavior. Partly because it has to do with my occupation. The lady customers love it and expect it. When I have addressed the affair issue, her response is, "Have at it."


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## shalom_82 (Nov 23, 2014)

Beingpushedaway said:


> This is one example of what I mean about a dumb comment. I haven't cheated but feel I am being pushed that way. Wanting to have sex more than once every 2 weeks or every month isn't an addiction.


I don't mean to suggest that you have cheated or that you are a sex addict. I only mean to suggest that you seem to be consumed by the thought of being unsatisfied. It came across to me as being rather intense and maybe even obsessive. These attributes remind me of the experiences that people have when they have addictions of all kinds. Think addiction to our cell phones, not just heroin.


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## OnAnIsland (Oct 3, 2014)

shalom_82 said:


> I don't mean to suggest that you have cheated or that you are a sex addict. I only mean to suggest that you seem to be consumed by the thought of being unsatisfied. It came across to me as being rather intense and maybe even obsessive. These attributes remind me of the experiences that people have when they have addictions of all kinds. Think addiction to our cell phones, not just heroin.



I understood your point, but I understand BC&C's objection as well. We are all posting here anonymously. Those who are posting about severe frustrations with being neglected romantically and sexually are putting those feelings into words, honestly and without filter, perhaps for the first time. That can come across as bitter, obsessive and even borderline hateful. It's what suppressed pain sounds/reads like. I opened up to my father recently about very similar issues in my marriage and received the same 'you sound obsessed with this' counsel. I also got the 'it will all work out' canard. I can't blame him for not understanding how it feels. I would've said the same thing before it happened to me.

_Consumed by the thought of being unsatisfied_...

Yeah, it will consume you a bit. Anyone who's had a terrible situation at work or spent a lot of money on a 'lemon' car or a money-pit house can attest to being acutely and obsessively dissatisfied. The difference, of course, is that one can replace a job, car or house and has not entered into a lifelong contract and taken vows to remain faithful to them. Having a spouse cut off productive communication and romance/intimacy/sex is devastating, for male and female alike as this board attests. The ramifications of decisions one has to make in this situation are immense and life-changing for all parties, especially children. It is very easy to have these thoughts consume you. You certainly cannot talk about it with your spouse, or anyone else, for hours everyday. So it comes out here a bit intensely sometimes.

Someone wrote the OP shouldn't have said 'no stupid comments'. Agreed. Ignore anything you want, but most people here are trying to be helpful. That said, telling anyone here they seem obsessed with a marital problem is a bit off base. We'd be off enjoying our marriages, in most cases, and not on this board if we hadn't been already agonizing over it.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello,
Just a silly suggestion really, but would you financial situation allow any getaway? For just you and her. To me as a woman your story, the behaviour of your wife, sounded very tired. Not depressed, not suppressed, just tired. Long shifts at work, probably emotionally challenging since she works with people, 3 kids around the house, feeling guilty to you (probably). When did you have vacation last time? Without kids?


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## NotLikeYou (Aug 30, 2011)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Funny thing is, she doesn't notice the flirtatious behavior. Partly because it has to do with my occupation. The lady customers love it and expect it. When I have addressed the affair issue, her response is, "Have at it."


If she truly does not notice the flirtatious behavior, well, I guess its possible because as you describe her she seems really un-perceptive.

I would dig into it a little- she has to have some kind of perception of what you say and do. If she tries to ignore it or pretends that she doesn't notice it, those are reactions too. It would help you to know the truth, whatever that is.

As far as "have at it" goes, this is terribad no matter how you slice it. Either she thinks so little of you that she doesn't believe any woman would find you loveable, or she dislikes you so intensely that she thinks you having sex with another woman would benefit her. Or she has mental problems.

What she DOESN'T have, with that response, is any fear of anything bad or hurtful happening to her. She's not scared and she doesn't care.

That does not leave much room to work with.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Funny thing is, she doesn't notice the flirtatious behavior. Partly because it has to do with my occupation. The lady customers love it and expect it. When I have addressed the affair issue, her response is, "Have at it."


If this is a true quote from her, this is pretty substantial evidence that she really doesn't care if you DO have at it.

I'm pretty sure you should just leave, based on what you've written so far. She really doesn't care if you have sex with someone else. So just get the ball rolling and head that direction...only you should leave first so your own integrity is intact.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Beingpushedaway said:


> I If I am aggressive in bed or *wake her up in the middle of the night for sex*, I am "forcing" myself on her.


First of all, I'm very sorry you're here. I was in a loveless, near-sexless marriage for 20 years so I definitely feel your pain.

My SO of 4 years (love of my life) wakes me up almost nightly for a quickie -- rough, pounding, then it's over. This is on top of the near-daily sex we have when we're both fully awake where we make sure both our needs are met. Our nighttime "escapades" are truly bonding and I can't even fathom feeling "put out" or like he's "forcing" himself on me. It's truly soul-connecting. So sorry she feels like it's forced... I know just how demoralizing that is.



Beingpushedaway said:


> How can I get her to wake up before I walk out? Or is it hopeless and I will never have the loving sex life with her again.


Personally, I think you're a mismatch and it's probably hopeless. Others will chime in that you should do everything to make it work. Five years of marriage and sex counseling did nothing to save my marriage; it only prolonged the agony.

I wish you the very best.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

If she really told you to have at it, then tell her you want to separate/divorce. Don't be a cheater. Just don't. Once someone finds out you've cheated (be it your spouse, co-workers, family, friends, whatever) you are labeled as that guy who cheated and broke his family up. It doesn't matter what she is or isn't doing.

Another option would be to talk to her about an open marriage where you get your sexual needs met outside of the marriage. So long as both of you agree, it's not considered cheating. 

A walk down the cheater road is a long, happy at fist, painful in the end, one. Your kids will see you as a cheater, your wife will see you as a cheater, hell, you might even feel guilty for being a cheater at some point. It sounds good now. But what's behind door number 2 could always come back to bite you in the @ss.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

WandaJ said:


> just to get this out of the way - is she on hormonal contraceptives (pill, IUD)? On some women they can have that effect of killing libido (it did it for me)


That is one variable I have toyed with but she denies. A lot of this started after her tubes were tied (her choice).


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

OnAnIsland said:


> I understood your point, but I understand BC&C's objection as well. We are all posting here anonymously. Those who are posting about severe frustrations with being neglected romantically and sexually are putting those feelings into words, honestly and without filter, perhaps for the first time. That can come across as bitter, obsessive and even borderline hateful. It's what suppressed pain sounds/reads like. I opened up to my father recently about very similar issues in my marriage and received the same 'you sound obsessed with this' counsel. I also got the 'it will all work out' canard. I can't blame him for not understanding how it feels. I would've said the same thing before it happened to me.
> 
> _Consumed by the thought of being unsatisfied_...
> 
> ...


Well stated, onanisland, I couldn't have said it better. To the original comment, I apologize for jumping on you. I am in pain and this is not something I am comfortable talking about in public to anyone. I think it is rude and disrespectful to talk about our sex problems with friends - if only because of gossip. I chose this rather anonymous forum for that reason. Friends of mine have seen the pain and offered to help but can you really tell someone, "My wife turns me down and masturbates instead."??? It is embarrassing to say the least.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Terracota said:


> Hello,
> Just a silly suggestion really, but would you financial situation allow any getaway? For just you and her. To me as a woman your story, the behaviour of your wife, sounded very tired. Not depressed, not suppressed, just tired. Long shifts at work, probably emotionally challenging since she works with people, 3 kids around the house, feeling guilty to you (probably). When did you have vacation last time? Without kids?


I have tried the vacation without kids and I get these responses:

1) We can't leave our kids that long (I'm talking 2 days to Vegas or something).

2) If we go away, I am not going with the idea of having sex


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Faithful Wife said:


> If this is a true quote from her, this is pretty substantial evidence that she really doesn't care if you DO have at it.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you should just leave, based on what you've written so far. She really doesn't care if you have sex with someone else. So just get the ball rolling and head that direction...only you should leave first so your own integrity is intact.


Not sure if I posted it in my original post or not, but I read somewhere an article about women wanting their husbands to cheat. The reason? When they were divorced he would look like the bad guy. I truly feel that is that case here. I cheat, she has reason for a divorce, she saves face and maintains impression of being the upstanding wife.

I am not going to cheat, but I can't say the temptation isn't there. I fear that one day I will feel such low self esteem that I will do it to feel better.

My original problem is I don't want to break my kids hearts. I've heard both sides of the coin on kids in homes of bad marriages and kids in homes of divorced parents. I want my kids to see me every day.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Jorgegene,
> 
> Thank you for your reply. Sadly one thing may be part of the problem. Her best friend is her mother. Outside of the occasional feminine hygiene commercial, do women really talk about sex issues with their mother? Do 45 year old women talk about them with their 84 year old mothers?


I'm kind of in the same boat. My wife has female friends, but she does not talk with them about sex. In fact, if anybody starts talking about sex around her, or us, she gets uncomfortable and doesn't take part.

I don't think ALL women talk about sex with their girlfriends, but I'm sure many of them do, at least in passing. Taking the temperature of their marriages/relationships, that sort of thing.

Personally, I think it's beneficial when women do this. Your wife, for example, can hear other women's pov's on their sex lives. She could learn what's normal, what's not normal, get some tips, etc. Otherwise, she only has her own experiences to draw from, and that leaves her in her little bubble.

Furthermore, hearing about other women's husbands may make her realize that you are not as ultra-demanding as she currently thinks you are - one track mind and all that. I went through a fairly long period where my wife accused me of that and built up a resentment towards me because I "only wanted sex" from her. I found some great articles, and also downloaded a copy of Venus and Mars in the Bedroom (in which page one describes the major differences in how men and women show and desire love from their partners). It showed her that I do, in fact love her the way I am supposed to, as a man, and how I show it (and RECEIVE it) is through physical intimacy - not that I am always just wanting to get off.

Tangent here: my wife had a fair amount of casual relationships, with only a few "real" ones before me. I personally think this destroyed her views of sexuality within a relationship. I have no problem with casual relationships, just sex, or even ONS, but when it's not a healthy balance of all of the above, it can certainly skew one's viewpoint on healthy sexuality. If there is no love involved with most of ones sexual partners, then it IS about sex, and both people are being used. The problem is that this can, and does, carry over into relationships, in which it is VERY easy for one to make the assumption that your partner only wants sex - because that's how the majority of your experiences have been.

So for example, a woman is single and at a bar. A man hits on her. If she's interested (or horny, or lonely) she'll go home with him. She's using him just as much as he's using her. If she's not interested (not horny, not lonely), then to her, he just wants sex (which he does). When this same woman is in a relationship with somebody, and he tries to initiate sex and she's not interested, then it's not hard for her to make the same connection - he just wants sex. Because men typically want sex more than women (ie. all the time!) it's very very easy for her to come to the conclusion that he only wants her for sex. The reality is, that when we men are in love with a woman, we show, and receive, our love for them via physical intimacy. Cuddling and holding hands and all that are nice, sure, but most of us aren't fulfilled with only that. The opposite is generally true for most women. They CAN be fulfilled with cuddling and holding hands and being held and all that, whereas sex is generally a physical release (as well as being close, of course). Men can't survive in a marriage with only cuddling and no sex, and women can't survive in a marriage with only sex and no cuddling.

Case in point, my BIL is the male version of your wife, I think. He's nearly 40 and simply can't settle down. Why? Same thing every time he meets a woman. She's the one, she's awesome, etc etc etc. A month later, and he can't breathe. They all end the same way - the woman is "always there", too demanding, etc etc. and they end up being labelled as "crazy" or "desperate". Every single time. This is because he doesn't seem to understand women AT ALL, and their need for non-sexual intimacy. This, to him, is smothering, and he just can't do it. Somebody needs to tell him, just as some women need to be told, that relationships are a two-way street and mens and womens needs are very very different.

Communication is key, and for those men and women who simply do not know the differences between the sexes and/or don't talk with friends, read books on the subject (or come to TAM!), they can get a very negative view of sex with their partners.


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## ChristianGrey (Nov 27, 2014)

Someone's looking to do hanky panky on the side or just plain moving out on their spouse, since now they are so fit and getting so much female attention, which effectively is a mirage or vaporware.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Beingpushedaway said:


> I have tried the vacation without kids and I get these responses:
> 1) We can't leave our kids that long (I'm talking 2 days to Vegas or something).
> 2) If we go away, I am not going with the idea of having sex


Ok, let's see other things.. Is your wife into any relaxation at all? I don't know, a manicurist, a haircut, massage, spa?

Your situation with her preferring vibrator to you honestly doesn't sound any major to me, I could understand her as a woman. It's same feeling sometimes as when asked "Would you like to go to a restaurant?" you reply "I'll prefer some microwave meal for today at home in front of the telly alone". So you were the restaurant for her that day - you ARE better, but you also require some socialising, communicating, even if you think you don't require it - it's just as natural as the need to dress up when going out, when any other person is involved into sex. And she preferred he vibrator that night - cause she REALLY wanted it quick and easy. Even you doing it for her with her vibrator is different, believe me. Sometimes it is SO irritating when a woman is already almost coming but then the toy moves away from the "right" spot and she misses it and need to actually SAY to you that it went wrong etc. Some days it's just not what a woman wants, seriously, nothing major in that..


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Terracota said:


> Your situation with her preferring vibrator to you honestly doesn't sound any major to me, I could understand her as a woman. It's same feeling sometimes as when asked "Would you like to go to a restaurant?" you reply "I'll prefer some microwave meal for today at home in front of the telly alone". So you were the restaurant for her that day - you ARE better, but you also require some socialising, communicating, even if you think you don't require it - it's just as natural as the need to dress up when going out, when any other person is involved into sex. And she preferred he vibrator that night - cause she REALLY wanted it quick and easy. Even you doing it for her with her vibrator is different, believe me. Sometimes it is SO irritating when a woman is already almost coming but then the toy moves away from the "right" spot and she misses it and need to actually SAY to you that it went wrong etc. Some days it's just not what a woman wants, seriously, nothing major in that..


I disagree wholeheartedly. As a man who has been in this situation before (with my wife AND my ex wife) it is extremely painful. It's not just being rejected, and she goes to bed. It's being rejected for something else instead of you.

My wife did this exactly twice (that I know of) before I blew up to her about it. She said the same things you said above - just wanted a quick release, no fuss no muss, etc. That doesn't fly. Now, if she goes to bed before me and I didn't try to initiate sex, sometimes she will entertain herself quickly. That I don't mind. Yeah, it kind of sucks that I'm not involved, but meh, that's all she wanted in the first place, or it was on a whim. But when you try and initiate and get turned down, and 10 minutes later... not cool.

So what we do now, as often as I can, is when I know she's not in the mood for anything more than that, I'll join her. She can use her toy on herself, and I'll do my own thing. We can touch each other, kiss, cuddle up while we're doing it, etc. It's intimate, but also very easy and quick, without a lot of effort. Let's face it, even us men would sometimes rather just do the deed ourselves without all the effort, and that's okay. Women can do this too.

Just don't reject your partner first, THEN go do it. That's hurtful, thoughtless, and honestly - mean and selfish. My wife now knows this, how it makes me feel and how hurt I am by that - as I should be.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Well said, ALEXM. I agree wholeheartedly. If I didn't indicate so on my original post, the offer of mutual masturbation was very much there. We have done that before and we have done where she will get herself off and then have sex. 

I have no problem with masturbation. I have a problem with being denied any physical connection and then her running off and doing that. Had I turned her down and she did that, not a problem (note, I have not turned her down in many years). If she were home alone while I was at work and she got horny, not a problem. THIS is a problem - and it isn't the first time, either. 

I should point out, I did a childish and stupid thing. When I came home Monday night, I saw that she hid her vibrator. Well, she isn't the most organized person so I could figure out where in a matter of 3 minutes. I have now hidden it myself. Go ahead and jump on me, but I am still hurt and angry and if she is going to control how and when I orgasm, I am returning the favor.

By the way, the comment about wanting microwave vs dining out for dinner doesn't sit too well. What if I was in the mood for a blowjob and she wasn't willing or able to do it? Does that mean I should go find a hooker? I don't think so.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

ChristianGrey said:


> Someone's looking to do hanky panky on the side or just plain moving out on their spouse, since now they are so fit and getting so much female attention, which effectively is a mirage or vaporware.


Not sure what you are saying here. I am NOT looking for Hanky Panky on the side. I would LOVE hanky panky at home. I got fit to improve ME and to make myself more sexually attractive to her. The female attraction is a result of that.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Beingpushedaway said:


> I should point out, I did a childish and stupid thing. When I came home Monday night, I saw that she hid her vibrator. Well, she isn't the most organized person so I could figure out where in a matter of 3 minutes. I have now hidden it myself. Go ahead and jump on me, but I am still hurt and angry and if she is going to control how and when I orgasm, I am returning the favor.


If anybody jumps on your back about that, I'll back you up, lol! The funny thing is that's exactly what I was thinking when I read your initial post about this.

Yes it's childish and will probably make her angry, but honestly, tough t***ies.

If a husband keeps turning his wife down and then goes and watches porn, I'd side with the wife when she tosses the computer or dvd's in the trash.

I, like you, have NO problem with masturbation or vibrators or anything like that, none whatsoever. It's completely healthy and natural and normal - provided one's sex life is also healthy and natural and normal. There will be times when one or the other simply doesn't want the effort involved in sex yet still has the physical urge to get off, and that's okay. 

If the other partner has expressed interest in you but you're not in the mood for it, but would rather just get yourself off quickly, then incorporate them somehow, duh. Seriously - duh. I have told my wife expressly that if she only wants a physical release, then I can either help, or join her without helping. All she has to do is ask, or if I have tried to initiate and she's not into the full sha-bang, then frickin' tell me. Don't try to ditch me so you can go off by yourself somewhere in the house and
have fun on your own.

I told this story here once before a while ago: when I first married my ex wife, we lived in this tiny 70 year old 4-room house, maybe 600 sq ft total. The insulation between the walls was old newspaper, so you could hear everything clearly throughout the whole house. One night, I tried to initiate sex with her, which was rebuffed. "No, I'm too tired, I just want to go have a bath". So I went to bed, she drew a bath, and within 5 minutes of me turning off the light, I could clearly hear her in the bathtub with her vibrator. I was mortified. I SO wanted to barge in on her and give her a piece of my mind, but something held me back. A good 10 minutes she was going to town in there, and when she was "done", so was her bath.

When I saw her the next day, I DID give her a piece of my mind. She made the same excuses - just wanted to get off quickly, didn't want the effort, blah blah blah. I said something witty like "I wanted to jump out of bed and tell you to go **** yourself, but you already were". As far as I know, it never happened again (though she probably just waited til she was sure I was sleeping, or just moved it to another room or something... She was a piece of work, that woman.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Hey OP--

I really get where you're coming from. I've had all the same thoughts.

You know you're unhappy. But how much of your unhappiness is directed at things you can't control? Can you identify those things and let go of them?

If you know you are the complete master of yourself and you carry yourself at all times the way you know you should and there are still things that make you unhappy, then those aren't your fault. You shouldn't let those things cause you to hate yourself.

It's not always easy to draw these distinctions, I know.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

After you told her you were tired of being treated like a doormat, what did she say?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

happy as a clam said:


> My SO of 4 years (love of my life) wakes me up almost nightly for a quickie -- rough, pounding, then it's over. This is on top of the near-daily sex we have when we're both fully awake where we make sure both our needs are met. Our nighttime "escapades" are truly bonding and I can't even fathom feeling "put out" or like he's "forcing" himself on me. It's truly soul-connecting. So sorry she feels like it's forced... I know just how demoralizing that is.


Eh, this sound like a lot of fun if I didn't have 2 kids at home and a full time job. 


OP- what are your wife's emotional needs? Is there anything she's been asking for that she's not getting either (more help with the kids, around the house, more romance, gifts, dates, etc)


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Lila said:


> I'm curious, you stated in your OP that you had a MAP that you worked on. What sort of things did you address other than improving your physique?


Pretty much all of the Alpha and appropriate Beta male things. 

I play with the kids, she says I am just doing the "fun things with them" when I take them to the park etc. I see that as being a good dad, getting them to exercise and not be afraid of things.

I been actively doing more repairs around the house. Over the weekend I replaced a ceiling fan, a light in our main room (needed to rewire a new fixture) prepped the snowblower for the winter and got the garage reorganized for the winter. I do some of the beta traits that he says don't do (dishes, etc) but I see that as a responsibility, too. 

I see her try to undercut my role at times. Belittling me in front of the kids and I put a cabosh to it. I actually told my daughter recently one of the secrets to a good marriage. I told her, "If you want your husband to dance with you, don't make fun of the way he dances." I shared with her that it was a metaphor - to a point but take it literally as well. I know wives who criticize they way their husbands do the laundry. Guess what, they don't do the laundry anymore. 

It is funny the different responses I get from this board. One is to not help around the house - show your alpha side - the other is to help more. One weekend while she was at work I hired someone to come in and help clean. Understand that she would be embarrassed to have someone come in and clean, but it needed it. Sadly, my wife is a slob. Every flat surface of our house is covered with her crap. I didn't expect anything nor did I get anything in return. The kids had fun with me cleaning and were proud to show off their rooms. That is the alpha side - taking a leadership role. Being "The captain" as the author would call it. 

So, while their are those who say follow the MAP to a T, I do participate in more beta things. If laundry needs done, I do it. Cloths need put away I do it - generally not hers as I never know where she wants them. I put them on her dresser and they usually remain there for several weeks. 

4 nights a week she is at work. Guess who picks the kids up, feeds them, gets them to their activities and helps them with their homework. She doesn't see that so therefore it must not be happening in her mind.

I do have my outside activity. Like I said, I got heavily involved in a sporting activity. That prompted me (along with the MAP) to work out and weight lift so that I now have the physique of when I played ball in college. I made a comment about the weight loss and muscle growth - yes, I was fishing for a complement - and she pointed at me and said, "That doesn't do it for me." 

I want her to wake up before it is too late and my kids father is living somewhere else.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Beingpushedaway said:


> It is funny the different responses I get from this board. One is to not help around the house - show your alpha side - the other is to help more.


I think many people read a story like yours and pick out little snippets that remind them of their own spouse. Then they try to advise you on what might work for them, since they figure your wife is like theirs. Of course everyone is different and reacts differently so the advise ends up seeming like it's all over the board.

For the record, I see shades of my wife in your description of yours. The bit about fishing for a compliment only to be criticized, that has happened countless times to me. I can't actually ever remember being complimented by her. By her friends, sure. But not by her. I mention this to her on a regular basis. She denies it but still doesn't do it.


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## shalom_82 (Nov 23, 2014)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Well stated, onanisland, I couldn't have said it better. To the original comment, I apologize for jumping on you. I am in pain and this is not something I am comfortable talking about in public to anyone. I think it is rude and disrespectful to talk about our sex problems with friends - if only because of gossip. I chose this rather anonymous forum for that reason. Friends of mine have seen the pain and offered to help but can you really tell someone, "My wife turns me down and masturbates instead."??? It is embarrassing to say the least.


Apology accepted and I'd to express that I'm sorry for being rash. I shot from the hip and should have slowed down at the keys and been more sympathetic. I have my own personal issues that got triggered and I associated you with other men I've had relationships with.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Pretty much all of the Alpha and appropriate Beta male things.
> 
> I play with the kids, she says I am just doing the "fun things with them" when I take them to the park etc. I see that as being a good dad, getting them to exercise and not be afraid of things.
> 
> ...



Just curious OP, what does she do for a living? Does she spend a lot of time on electronic devices (ipad, cell phone, etc)? 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Voltaire2013 said:


> Just curious OP, what does she do for a living? Does she spend a lot of time on electronic devices (ipad, cell phone, etc)?
> 
> Cheers,
> V(13)


Great question and it is an issue. She works at a hospital but doesn't need her phone for work. I run two small companies and leave my phone all over, in the car, on my dresser, etc. She is married to that thing.

It is an issue because about a year ago I found out she was secretly texting (and then deleting texts) an old boyfriend. Like 150 times in a short day. When I saw 2 texts I searched the bill on line and saw how many times. It is an issue because about 10 years prior she had been out of town on a conference and secretly met him. I found out about that in and email I saw. 

In her mind I am invading her privacy (when I got a hunch and looked at her texts and the vibrator thing). In my mind, privacy in marriage is when you go to the bathroom or something like that. THIS is secrecy.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OK, so your wife has cheated on you. Not once but twice. And these are just the instances you know of. This really changes the story.

Your wife should be on her best beviour trying to win you back, not vice versa. I know you want to hold it together for your kids, which is admirable, but to be honest it sounds like you need to seriously explore pulling the plug. Have you talked to a divorce lawyer? You could get joint custody since she works. Would you really see your kids that much less.

The cheating thing really brings this to a different level. If you decide to stick with it, I would say you need to get everything out on the table and re-negotiate your situation totally. You should be doing less for her, not more. She is the one who needs to demonstrate commitment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> OK, so your wife has cheated on you. Not once but twice. And these are just the instances you know of. This really changes the story.
> 
> Your wife should be on her best beviour trying to win you back, not vice versa. I know you want to hold it together for your kids, which is admirable, but to be honest it sounds like you need to seriously explore pulling the plug. Have you talked to a divorce lawyer? You could get joint custody since she works. Would you really see your kids that much less.
> 
> ...


Part of the issue is my trust because of the events. She won't admit to cheating. She wont even fully admit that she did something wrong. She uses terms like, "Bad choice" and "mistake." She also uses my mistrust in her as an excuse for lack of sex. There are so many times I caught her lying and if I check up, I don't trust her. The vibrator thing is a control thing to her. The fact that I checked says that I don't trust her. The fact that I picked up her phone and saw the texts say that I don't trust her. 

We really had a long late-night talk about proper boundaries. But it became a circular argument. She can't be with me because I don't trust her and I have withdrawn. I've withdrawn because we rarely have sex. She says what she did wasn't wrong. I say when I keep seeing smoke I wonder where the fire will appear. She says she hasn't done anything wrong since she last texted the guy a little over a year ago and I say the only reason I found out was because I looked at her phone.

I have the same email and email address I have had since the day we met. I leave my phone - unlocked - laying around all the time. She doesn't lock her phone anymore, but it is at her hip. If I pick it up to look at it, I am invading her privacy. How am I supposed to know she isn't contacting him if I am not looking?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

There are lots of people here who have gone through the infidelity gauntlet. I fortunately have not. You should read some of the threads on the Coping with Infidelity forum if you haven't already.

Based on what you've said, if I were in your shoes, I would write up a list of minimum requirements you need to move forward. Top of the list would be 100% honestly and openness about where your wife is at all times and who she communicates with. 

I would not argue about it, just present it to her and walk away. Let her know the ball is in her court. This is a totally basic requirement that needs no justification given her past behavior.

Parallel track, I would be consulting with a divorce lawyer.

Again, the cheating and dishonesty puts this situation in a completely different light. I would not have blamed you for ending it even without this. But with this added, given her lack of remorse and unwillingness to demonstrate commitment to your marriage, I think she is massively disrespecting you and your family.

Sorry you are going through this.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

So what's your breaking point?

She cheated on you, and never came clean.
She's not attracted to you.
She belittles you in front of the kids.
She doesn't want to go away with you.
She hides her private life from you.

None of that spells wife. 

At this point, I would tell either she starts trying to be your wife or you're done, and pull a 180. I would build an apartment in the basement and give her a month to see if she makes any attempt to help fix the marriage.

She can't sit on the sidelines and continue to neglect you forever unless you allow it. Draw a line in the sand, tell her "this is it", and be prepared to file is she doesn't pull her head out of her azz.


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Beingpushedaway said:


> Great question and it is an issue. She works at a hospital but doesn't need her phone for work. I run two small companies and leave my phone all over, in the car, on my dresser, etc. She is married to that thing.
> 
> It is an issue because about a year ago I found out she was secretly texting (and then deleting texts) an old boyfriend. Like 150 times in a short day. When I saw 2 texts I searched the bill on line and saw how many times. It is an issue because about 10 years prior she had been out of town on a conference and secretly met him. I found out about that in and email I saw.
> 
> In her mind I am invading her privacy (when I got a hunch and looked at her texts and the vibrator thing). In my mind, privacy in marriage is when you go to the bathroom or something like that. THIS is secrecy.


That is a whole lotta not good, you really need to investigate to determine if you even want to try further with this marriage. See here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

My guess is Bryce in patient transport or so other sh1tty character has her ear, or maybe more. Dig deep but pretend like all is ok so as not to tip your hand. From all you have said your want to save your marriage but can handle the fallout if it doesn't get righted. You need to know where you stand before moving forward. It doesn't look good which is why I asked. Get that phone and recover whatever you can, make multiple copies offsite, cloud, best buddy's house, whatever. 

Without knowing if she is deep in an EA or PA you'll never make progress. You are spot on regarding privacy in marriage. My wife jokes that she doesn't even get the bathroom because the kids barge in, but I lock the door for a reason. 

Heaven forbid you discover something ask to move your thread (or start a new one) in CWI. They are experts there, though a little slanted towards 'Burn the Witch' vs Reconciliation at the moment. 

I am curious too as to how old you both are? Is your wife turning 40 soon? If you posted that I missed it. Also hope she doesn't have a sudden love for Katy Perry songs. 

Cheers,
V(13)


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## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Ohh and one quick thing. Hiding the vibrator is passive aggressive and bad. But I'm good at passive aggressive, if you find a name she texts too much too again, find the Vibe and write that guys name or phone number on it in black magic marker. THATS passive aggressive. ;-)

Just kidding of course. 

Cheers,
V(13)


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