# EA and maybe more - Falling apart!!!



## Crossmyheart

Never thought I would end up in a forum like this. My hands are shaking as I write. My scenario is so VAST and messy that I could write a novel of whats transpired between my W and I. I'll try to sum up as best as I can...

Back in July, the worst day of my life came to be; I was notified at my doorstep by the police that my older sister was killed in a car accident. I'm not going into details, but it still hurts to this day. The only reason I'm even mentioning this is for background info of my state of mind.

Here's what my family life is like... I've been with my W for 6+ years, been married just over a year; August 2011. We have 4 kids. She has 2 twin boys (age 12) from a previous relationship, but they call me Dad and hardly ever see their "biological father". We also have 2 beautiful little girls (ages 3 and 5). We both work full-time; and I just recently started working 2 nights a week at a pizza parlor for some extra money. We live on very little income. I guess you could say we're both over-worked and under-paid.

So, for me, this is when everything started to get heavy. On Sept 7 my W got a "random" friend request on Facebook. She had no idea who is was, but accepted it for some reason. This is when I got a little leery, but I trusted her so I didn't think anything of it.

I started noticing that my W started acting a little different shortly afterward, e.g. wanting to excercise, diet, wanting space. I told her my concerns regarding her new "friend". I told her I was worried they would start emailing, texting, phone conversation, etc. She told me she had NO intention of any of that. At any rate, I caught her on the phone with him one night and listened in. The conversation was quite innocent; nothing too personal. After she hung up, I confronted her about it. And she got angry and said "I don't need your permission to talk to whom I want to talk to."

Anyway, this could go on way too long, so I'll just let everyone know where I currently stand. From what I've gathered they've never met in person, though I doubt it. My W DID tell me that texting/talking to him is an escape for her since he knows very little about her, but he does know that we're married.

Occasionally, the correspondence goes away, but then the next week I'll find a recent text between them, but again its not anything very secretive. My W is so sick and tired of me constantly telling her my concerns or answering my questions that I feel I'm doing more harm than good. 

The OM is FAR more successful than I ever could be. He's a firefighter/paramedic and just recently was elected to City Council. I'm an ant compared to him. He's a Christian and is single. I'm not very religious by the way and neither is my W.

I'm so torn right now. My W tells me she loves me and kisses me goodbye when I leave for work, etc. But I can't shake the thoughts in my head of what may or may not be going on between them. And please don't tell me to check phone records. I have no cell phone and she is still on her familys plan. So thats not an option of trying to find things out.

I will admit that things have died down a bit, but I'm still scared and skeptical. ANY advice is welcome, but understand I love my W with all my heart, but I can't stay feeling paranoid like this forever.


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## Crossmyheart

Anyone??? Guess I'm a little anxious. I just wish this NEVER happened...


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## TCSRedhead

So, first and foremost, explain that if she wants to stay in this marriage and make it work, then she calls him and tells him no further contact, ever. Period. This is non negotiable. If she is not willing to do that, then you have no chance of reconciling.

Read the newbies links. 

No more 'family' phone plan. She gives the phone back and gets a plan where YOU have access. That is the price she pays for the choice SHE made to violate your marriage vows. You don't have a phone - does she really NEED one? 

You get access to FB, email, phone, everything. No secrets. Any violation of this, deleting texts/call logs or changing passwords again and you file for divorce. Period. 

This man is NOT a Christian. A Christian does NOT pursue a married woman, FFS. If I were you, I'd also call him and explain that his contact with YOUR wife is no longer acceptable.


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## Hope1964

She either cuts it off with him NOW, and proves to you she's done so, or she's outta there. She should also prove she hasn't done anything physical with him. You may want to consider gathering your own evidence in this regard - snooping emails/bank accounts/ credit cards/texts etc. Sometimes that's the only way to get a truthful answer.

Please read the Newbie link in my sig.

Oh, and get this book

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"

I am so sorry you're here  Sadly there are many of us.


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## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> So, first and foremost, explain that if she wants to stay in this marriage and make it work, then she calls him and tells him no further contact, ever. Period. This is non negotiable. If she is not willing to do that, then you have no chance of reconciling.
> 
> Read the newbies links.
> 
> No more 'family' phone plan. She gives the phone back and gets a plan where YOU have access. That is the price she pays for the choice SHE made to violate your marriage vows. You don't have a phone - does she really NEED one?
> 
> You get access to FB, email, phone, everything. No secrets. Any violation of this, deleting texts/call logs or changing passwords again and you file for divorce. Period.
> 
> This man is NOT a Christian. A Christian does NOT pursue a married woman, FFS. If I were you, I'd also call him and explain that his contact with YOUR wife is no longer acceptable.


Thanks for the suggestion. This is basically my 'Plan B'. I want to try and heal this scenario with some sensitivity. My W can be VERY emotional and by that, I mean ANGRY. 

I'm currently trying to implement the 180 plan from DivorceBusters to see if I get any results.

I've done things in the past that has made her question my trust as well; so I'm trying to look at this from multiple angles. But damn, this DOES hurt.


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## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> She either cuts it off with him NOW, and proves to you she's done so, or she's outta there. She should also prove she hasn't done anything physical with him. You may want to consider gathering your own evidence in this regard - snooping emails/bank accounts/ credit cards/texts etc. Sometimes that's the only way to get a truthful answer.
> 
> Please read the Newbie link in my sig.
> 
> Oh, and get this book
> 
> Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"
> 
> I am so sorry you're here  Sadly there are many of us.


Thanks Hope. It actually brings a little comfort knowing that (although) pain brought us all here, we can find comfort in others' tears.


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## Crossmyheart

For the record, I do have this guy's email address and phone number. I have (many times) wanted to tell him to back off, but I talked it over with my therapist and she told me that doing that would makes things much worse.


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## Hope1964

Your wife is the one who needs to tell him she will no longer be contacting him. With you as witness. Please read the info about No Contact in the newbie link.

Is he married or in a relationship? If your wife refuses to go NC, contacting his SO, once you have evidence, is a good idea.


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## Crossmyheart

Sorry to ask. I'm kinda messed up right now, but what are/is the newbie link?


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## doc_martin

There is no going soft here. look into yourself for your boundaries and be prepared to keep them. 

If you loved someone so much that you would do anything for them, then what would be the big deal of giving up a "friend" of the opposite sex? 

I have. Plenty of times. Even same sex friends. If my wife ever voiced concern over them or their character, they were gone. My friends would never come before my wife.

We may sit down after all was said and done and get to the bottom of some things, like why she didn't like them, what she knew or suspected, or what she was fearful of.

But since I don't believe opposite sexes can EVER be friends, I would say she is having an emotional affair at best, physical affair at worst. The more she fights to keep him, the stronger their affair bond. IMHO.


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## Lovemytruck

CMH,

It breaks our hearts to see a new poster with the same terrible story to tell....

Follow the advice to set some boundries NOW! Hang tough.

Whatever happens know that you will survive! Read, exercise, do all of those things. Be strong toward her. If she continues to crap on you, be able to say good-bye.

Bar none it is the hardest experience you can go through, if it goes south, but YOU will be ok in the end.

God bless you. There are wonderful people that you will discover through this journey.


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## Shaggy

You say he's more successful, that says to me he has a lot to loose from exposure.


1. Are you sure he is single?
2. Good Christian men do not randomly friend women on Fp
3. They don't put time and effort into developing a relationship with a married woman.

I don't agree with your therapist entirely. What does the therapist suggest that you learn to happy for your wife?

I'd certainly put a var where she talks to him, and key log the pc, you need to find out what is going on between them,


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## Crossmyheart

I REALLY want to ask her tonight if she has heard from him or is still texting him, but I know it'll probably just make her mad. I can't believe she's doing this; we have 4 wonderful kids! WHY?!?!


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## Crossmyheart

Shaggy said:


> You say he's more successful, that says to me he has a lot to loose from exposure.
> 
> 
> 1. Are you sure he is single?
> 2. Good Christian men do not randomly friend women on Fp
> 3. They don't put time and effort into developing a relationship with a married woman.
> 
> I don't agree with your therapist entirely. What does the therapist suggest that you learn to happy for your wife?
> 
> I'd certainly put a var where she talks to him, and key log the pc, you need to find out what is going on between them,


I'm not computer savvy at all. I don't even have a cell phone.


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## Crossmyheart

Shaggy said:


> You say he's more successful, that says to me he has a lot to loose from exposure.
> 
> 
> 1. Are you sure he is single?
> 2. *Good Christian men do not randomly friend women on Fp*3. *They don't put time and effort into developing a relationship with a married woman*.
> 
> I don't agree with your therapist entirely. What does the therapist suggest that you learn to happy for your wife?
> 
> I'd certainly put a var where she talks to him, and key log the pc, you need to find out what is going on between them,


Good points. He was running for City Council when he friend requested her, so at first I thought he was looking for votes. I dunno.


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## Shaggy

Walmart and bestbuy sell VARs, people like the Olympus.
Secure it with Velcro tape so it's not easily found.

I'd seriously think about talking to him, or have a friend of yours do it.


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## Hope1964

The Newbie Link is in my signature. I have four links down there, it's the last one

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## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> The Newbie Link is in my signature. I have four links down there, it's the last one
> 
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
> |
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> V


Got it. Thanks!


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## Hope1964

Pay attention to other people's signatures too - there are tons of useful links. There's also a sticky at the top of the CWI (Coping with Infidelity) forum


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## Crossmyheart

Shaggy said:


> Walmart and bestbuy sell VARs, people like the Olympus.
> Secure it with Velcro tape so it's not easily found.
> 
> I'd seriously think about talking to him, or have a friend of yours do it.


Really don't have money for that, but I'll try. I could velcro it in her car. I think she talks to him during her lunch break in the car.


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## Crossmyheart

I work my night job later and won't see her until I get home tonight. What should I tell her about me wanting to know if she's still talking/texting him? I have a hard time biting my tongue and could use some sound advice.


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## doc_martin

Crossmyheart said:


> I think she talks to him during her lunch break in the car.


In that case, a VAR is a MUST! Get your ducks in a row, and all out in the open. Because if they have any kind of wiggle room, they will use it!


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## Hope1964

Crossmyheart said:


> I work my night job later and won't see her until I get home tonight. What should I tell her about me wanting to know if she's still talking/texting him? I have a hard time biting my tongue and could use some sound advice.


If you're going to start gathering evidence, don't say a thing. Just leave her alone. She'll probably breathe a sigh of relief and might become bolder. Or it might set her spidey senses off and make her start hiding things more. Hard to say. She might not even notice.

As for why, I am sorry to say many of us never get a satisfactory answer to that.

Just concentrate on you right now. Make sure to eat, try to sleep, get some exercise. Be patient. And keep posting.


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## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> If you're going to start gathering evidence, don't say a thing. Just leave her alone. She'll probably breathe a sigh of relief and might become bolder. Or it might set her spidey senses off and make her start hiding things more. Hard to say. She might not even notice.
> 
> As for why, I am sorry to say many of us never get a satisfactory answer to that.
> 
> Just concentrate on you right now. Make sure to eat, try to sleep, get some exercise. Be patient. And keep posting.


Thank you Hope. Are you going to be my guiding light through this mess?


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## srena200

Crossmyheart said:


> For the record, I do have this guy's email address and phone number. I have (many times) wanted to tell him to back off, but I talked it over with my therapist and she told me that doing that would makes things much worse.


Than just go meet the guy. Man up, email or call him. Have coffee and share your issues. He may truly be just a friend. If the meeting seems as if he is trying to hide something than your gut should listen. Any friends of your wife should be able to be friends of yours as well - if she blocks this or gives some bogus reason not to - she is hiding something. 
I have male friends who I have known for years since college. I have private conversations with them all the time but they are in other states, married, and we are not trying to hook up...if this is the case with your wife - call her on it. Meet the man. Talk like men and get it over with.


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## Crossmyheart

srena200 said:


> Than just go meet the guy. Man up, email or call him. Have coffee and share your issues. He may truly be just a friend. If the meeting seems as if he is trying to hide something than your gut should listen. Any friends of your wife should be able to be friends of yours as well - if she blocks this or gives some bogus reason not to - she is hiding something.
> I have male friends who I have known for years since college. I have private conversations with them all the time but they are in other states, married, and we are not trying to hook up...if this is the case with your wife - call her on it. Meet the man. Talk like men and get it over with.


Believe me, I'm close to it. I even wrote an email, but haven't sent it. Many (including my therapist) have said not to. Its just that he very well could just be a friend, but why some random, single guy all of a sudden. 

And what angers me, is my W sees what this situation is doing to me and yet she won't seal the issue, but I also haven't been as firm as I could be. I'm just scared that my firmness will push her closer to him.


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## Crossmyheart

She just flip-flops so much! Right now, she's being kinda quiet about "Us", but still tells me she loves me. Kisses me goodbye and hugs me firmly. She even suggested a date night for us last week, which we're still trying to do. Probably this weekend, but I can't shake the notion that she is up to something. Argh! This is SO PAINFUL AND FRUSTRATING!


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## Crossmyheart

And to be fair, the loss of my sister back in July has clouded my mind a bit. Maybe not entirely of course, but its hard coping with the loss of my sister (who was also my best friend) and NOW the potential loss of a marriage.


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## Crossmyheart

Is it possible (in anyone's opinion) she could be plotting an exit strategy? Waiting until the holidays are over? Or the rental lease on our house is up? Sorry for all my questions. I'm just nervous.


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## Shaggy

Get the var ASAP and put it in her car ASAP.
Do not say anything to her as it might spook her.
Listen and learn what you are up against.


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## C-man

If the POS OM is a good Christian, then I would contact him and remind him of the 10 commandments. Particularly the one about "coveting thy neighbor's wife".


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## walkonmars

It's possible but highly unlikely that he just randomly friended her.

Things you should find out . BTW *do not* scream, shake, get red in the face etc when you speak to her. Stay calm. Let your fingernails push into your palms if you have to. Don't lose it in front of her - no pleading, begging, crying etc. I'm very serious. 

What you need to find out:
Where did he know her from? It's not likely she was a random choice on fb

What is his reason for contacting her?

Her reason for making friends with a stranger? (yeah forget the crap about city council - he's still a stranger and politicians go to 'church' regularly - doubt most are devout though)

Do they have friends in common? Who?

If she becomes defensive tell her that as head of household, and as a man who works two jobs to sustain his family you have a right to know. If she doesn't think so, tell her then she has little respect for your position - and leave it at that. Remain silent. 

Let her think it over. 

In the meantime be working on yourself with the 180. Eat healthy, rest as much as you can. Let her initiate the next conversation over this issue and demand answers. When you get them now or later, tell her you don't want her to friend males you don't know. Not at all. Not negotiable. 

When she tells you you don't own her or that you are trying to control her. Tell her you have no control or ownership over her. But you have responsibilities as a father and husband and that she has responsibilities as a mother and wife. One of those responsibilities is honoring each other. When one makes a request or has a concern it should be discussed and a solution should be mutually agreed on. 

At present you have a concern over your marriage. You will honor your responsibilities. Remain silent. 

keep posting. As I said it may be nothing but many affairs start that way and this looks like one of those.


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## Hope1964

Yes, the 180 is extremely helpful.

And get Not Just Friends. So many of the questions you have are answered in that book. You might be able to find a free copy online even. It's surprising what books I have found for free.

You have every right to be nervous. You are probably about to find out your wife is having at least an EA. When I decided to dig through my husbands emails, my heart was pounding so hard I thought my chest would burst.

The VAR is a great idea too.

And do some careful reading of all the links here. So many people have been in your shoes.

As for being your 'guiding light' I'm not an expert, just someone who's been through it and seen a lot of others on here go through it too, sorry to say. I'm around as much as I can be but I tend to be gone for days at a time sometimes. But feel free to PM me any time you like, it might take me a few days to get back to you but I will.

I really think you need to go silent on her and start gathering evidence as much as you can.


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## TDSC60

Cedarman said:


> If the POS OM is a good Christian, then I would contact him and remind him of the 10 commandments. Particularly the one about "coveting thy neighbor's wife".


DO NOT CONTACT THIS POS!!

You may feel better and even think you accomplished something. But this guy could not give two hoots for the pain you are in or how you feel. Again - he cares NOTHING about you at all! Talking to him can do absolutely no good.

The only thing that contacting him will do is make your wife mad when he asks her what kind of nut she married.

I would not even confront her or ask her questions without some evidence. If she is in an affair, EA or PA, she will lie to you. Nothing accomplished there except now she will be more careful to hide things.

Evidence. VAR looks to be the best route for you now.


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## walkonmars

TDSC60 said:


> DO NOT CONTACT THIS POS!!
> 
> You may feel better and even think you accomplished something. But this guy could not give two hoots for the pain you are in or how you feel. Again - he cares NOTHING about you at all! Talking to him can do absolutely no good.
> 
> The only thing that contacting him will do is make your wife mad when he asks her what kind of nut she married.
> 
> I would not even confront her or ask her questions without some evidence. If she is in an affair, EA or PA, she will lie to you. Nothing accomplished there except now she will be more careful to hide things.
> 
> Evidence. VAR looks to be the best route for you now.


I agree definitely don't contact the pond scum. Under normal circumstances he'd be blowing smoke out his azz but as a politician - fergit no way no how is he going to be forthcoming. Oh, he'll be all sincere - looking you right in the eyes with a wrinkled brow and concerned look. Total sham.

BUT if this just started I doubt he's made the serious move. He's priming her and she may not even know it. That's why I recommend trying to nip it in the bud. Decisively - with authority.


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## OldWolf57

Email or call him. Say I'm am coming to the next city meeting to ask you why you are seeing my wife in front of everyone.


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## NextTimeAround

Sorry to read about your issues at the moment. You sound like a great husband and father, taking on extra work to keep the family afloat.

Your wife, OTOH, apparently doesn't always get things right as you say her twins no longer have contact with their biological father. And now she's chasing some other guy.

Based on the few facts here, it could be that she is in a one sided EA with him. Getting the 7 year itch so to speak and liking the (electronic) attention that he is giving her.

People need to be careful about this stuff. There was a thread on here about a month ago about a guy who frequented a bar; gave the bar tender his cellphone number "because he entered some joint lottery / sports fund and she could call him if it wins." Then the bar tender started texting him getting him into the bar while she was there during the slow times, I guess it bumped up her tips......and sales of beverages.

Perhaps this guy since he ran for a local public office, was just looking for "likes" on his business page.......

In any case, your wife is bleeding valuable resources out of the relationship (time and attention). It's not fair to you nor to your children. 

Do not accept the offer of a separation.........so that she can check this guy out while you remain her safety net. If she insists, file for divorce and let her contemplate what might happen next.......like being out on her ear.

don't put yourself down. You are good man; you put your family first; you are a father to ALL four of the children. you work the extra hours when it's needed. Not a lot of people will take on that responsibility.

And like others, for you two to stay together, accept nothing less than full transparency. as someone else mentioned, perhaps a one on one with this guy might help. It is possible that he only wanted her vote and nothing more.


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## Crossmyheart

Okay, well not much to update currently. I had a long day/night. Anyway, I came home (brought my wife a slice of pizza. I know being "nice" doesn't help my case) and managed to kiss my little girls good night before they fell asleep. My wife didn't seem cold to me. I approached her after I got in the door and she looked at me and said, "I love you" which she has kinda been saying a LITTLE more than normal, then gave me a little kiss. My mind was racing, but I cooled down shortly thereafter. 

Before we went to bed, I (randomly) asked if she's heard from the OM. She said "No." Now before everyone believes she's lying (which she could be), she hasn't really hidden much from me regarding him. She even told me about his friend request on FB the day he sent it. When I caught her on the phone with him about a month ago, she wasn't exactly TRYING to be quiet, since I could hear her from downstairs.

Anyway, because I'm such a wimp/sap, I gave her a foot rub since she wasn't feeling well while she lay in bed. After, she started to fall asleep, but I (of course) couldn't. I said to her, "I know I'm the not the worlds best husband, but I give my best effort." To which she replied, "I know. I love you."

I'm wondering if all the talks I HAD with her brought her to some kind of self exposure OR it made her to become more secretive. But to be fair, she doesn't guard her phone anymore like its a treasure. She leaves it around the house again.

I just feel I need to have another talk with her to finalize this issue and to convince her to sever ties with the OM. Easier said than done, since she's convinced she hasn't done anything wrong.


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## Crossmyheart

Thanks to everyone for all your support and advice. Please keep it coming if you can! Again, thank you!!!


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## LetDownNTX

Crossmyheart said:


> I REALLY want to ask her tonight if she has heard from him or is still texting him, but I know it'll probably just make her mad. I can't believe she's doing this; we have 4 wonderful kids! WHY?!?!


I know what you feel like walking around on tippy toes afraid to disturb the bear but really you HAVE to ask the questions you need to ask. If she gets mad then guess what, she's knows its wrong and doesnt want to be questioned about it. If its innocent why doesnt she talk to you about their conversations, invite him to dinner, etc?


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## Crossmyheart

NextTimeAround said:


> Sorry to read about your issues at the moment. You sound like a great husband and father, taking on extra work to keep the family afloat.
> 
> Your wife, OTOH, apparently doesn't always get things right as you say her twins no longer have contact with their biological father. And now she's chasing some other guy.
> 
> don't put yourself down. You are good man; you put your family first; you are a father to ALL four of the children. you work the extra hours when it's needed. Not a lot of people will take on that responsibility.


Thank you for the compliment NextTime. Its actually quite gratifying receiving compliments from those you hardly even know. And (honestly) I'm not a very internet savvy person OR familiar with acronyms. So I have to ask, what does "OTOH" stand for???


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## Crossmyheart

LetDownNTX said:


> I know what you feel like walking around on tippy toes afraid to disturb the bear but really you HAVE to ask the questions you need to ask. If she gets mad then guess what, she's knows its wrong and doesnt want to be questioned about it. If its innocent why doesnt she talk to you about their conversations, invite him to dinner, etc?


Good point. For the record, when I asked her if she's heard from him, I was very casual. And she replied just as casually, "Nope."


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## Hope Springs Eternal

TCSRedhead said:


> So, first and foremost, explain that if she wants to stay in this marriage and make it work, then she calls him and tells him no further contact, ever. Period. This is non negotiable. If she is not willing to do that, then you have no chance of reconciling.
> 
> Read the newbies links.
> 
> No more 'family' phone plan. She gives the phone back and gets a plan where YOU have access. That is the price she pays for the choice SHE made to violate your marriage vows. You don't have a phone - does she really NEED one?
> 
> They may have to stay on this "family" phone plan because of finances. You read where they are living paycheck-to-paycheck. I can relate.
> 
> You get access to FB, email, phone, everything. No secrets. Any violation of this, deleting texts/call logs or changing passwords again and you file for divorce. Period.
> 
> This man is NOT a Christian. A Christian does NOT pursue a married woman, FFS.
> 
> If I were you, I'd also call him and explain that his contact with YOUR wife is no longer acceptable.


I have to take exception to this, Red. Christians can and do behave badly all the time. We like to say, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." I know that this is an over-simplification, but you, Red, have to realize that people in all walks, faith-based or not, sin or transgress. My wife is a strong Christian, yet she walked on me. You can't take her faith away because of this. You can say that she's not behaving according to the tenets of her faith, and that is definitely how she behaved, but she is still a Christian. 

I call myself a Christian, but still had an EA years ago. I didn't listen to what the Bible said about how I was supposed to love, and I went outside my marriage for love and attention. It didn't change my faith, but it did prove that I am less of a person for having done what I did. I have sought forgiveness from both God and my spouse.

I guess I have a hard time with what non-Christians percieve as Christian and non-Christian behavior. Any other person who calls themselves a Christian will likely verify what I'm saying here.


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## LetDownNTX

Crossmyheart said:


> Good point. For the record, when I asked her if she's heard from him, I was very casual. And she replied just as casually, "Nope."


If you have no way of verifying that then you are just going to have to chose to trust her or not and move on...until something else comes up. Hopefully nothing else will!


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## walkonmars

CrossmyHeart

You missed a great opportunity to get some answers. While you were rubbing her feet you should have started:

"Hey hon, I've been thinking about your new friend xxx, where does he know you from?" etc. get answers. Let her know it concerns you. 

You are busting your butt in two jobs providing for your family. You need to ensure you HAVE a family to provide for. She needs to pull some weight here too. 

Personally, from all you've said, I don't think anything is going on on HER side at the moment. But you better believe the 'councilman' is casting his net and preparing to hold a 'one-on-one' citizens input involving your wife in the near future. Let your concerns be known in a non-threatening manner. 

HAVE SOME FAITH IN YOURSELF. Have some respect for yourself. You are stronger than you think!


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## Crossmyheart

walkonmars said:


> CrossmyHeart
> 
> You missed a great opportunity to get some answers. While you were rubbing her feet you should have started:
> 
> "Hey hon, I've been thinking about your new friend xxx, where does he know you from?" etc. get answers. Let her know it concerns you.
> 
> You are busting your butt in two jobs providing for your family. You need to ensure you HAVE a family to provide for. She needs to pull some weight here too.
> 
> Personally, from all you've said, I don't think anything is going on on HER side at the moment. But you better believe the 'councilman' is casting his net and preparing to hold a 'one-on-one' citizens input involving your wife in the near future. Let your concerns be known in a non-threatening manner.
> 
> HAVE SOME FAITH IN YOURSELF. Have some respect for yourself. You are stronger than you think!


Thanks! Thats good advice! I will take you up on this suggestion the next time. I suppose putting someone at easy physically is a good ice-breaker for a potentially "uncomfortable" topic.


----------



## LookingForTheSun

Sorry you are here. You do sound like a good man who puts family first, so don't sell yourself short. Biggest mistake I made was letting things slide because it made my WH feel uncomfortable. He had an affair, said he stopped, but didn't. He was able to tell me with a straight face and very convincingly that he had not heard anything from her and that he had no feelings for her. JUST IN CASE, and if your wife has any respect for you and you have any respect for yourself, you deserve to ask her as many questions as you need to to get the sense that she is not cheating. If she gets angry (as long as you don't start off by yelling), more than likely she is hiding something. At that point, if I were you, I would contact the OM, tell him that you do not appreciate him befriending your married wife with 4 children in any way, shape, or form, and if HE gets defensive or rude, threaten to expose him to EVERYONE....then do it! You may think he is a good Christian man because of what your wife said, but a cheater will say anything to deflect anything negative on them. He is probably lying to her and she is probably lying to him. You may just be a roomate for all he knows - or a live-in brother. For her to just drop something like that that she knows is a huge concern for you....guilty on some level. Sorry you are here. Sorry for the negative advice - just based on experience. 

And as far as you having to deal with the death of your sister - I left my family in another state for 3 weeks to be with my brother before he died. I didn't want my girls to have to experience that, so I asked my husband to stay behind and take care of our girls. His mom came out to help, and he had an affair, physical, starting on the day before I buried my brother. My brother died 4 hours after I got there - he waited for me, I believe - and then took his last breath right before my eyes. I should be really messed up. Then after not seeing my family for 3 weeks, my husband was late picking me up from the airport, put my bags in the car, didn't give me a hug, barely spoke to me, and that night told me he wanted a divorce...again, I should be messed up. I had crap that was clouding my judgement. Learn from others' experience. 

In the end, we are working through it, and he is dealing with the horror that was our lives for the last year that he caused. We are actually doing well all things considered. I got tough later. You need to get tough now. Now excuses.


----------



## Crossmyheart

For the record, this guy is who he claims he is. He's even in a public position now. So, he's not "posing" behind some front. But yes, just because he says he's a Christian, doesn't make him a saint. And he DID go to a Christian Theological College; I checked it out. I even saw him on a YouTube video for the City Council election/speeches. Keep in mind, I live in a small town as well.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Crossmyheart,

OTOH means On the other hand......

Stay strong.


----------



## Hope1964

The fact he is 'Christian' is totally irrelevant here.

There's nothing wrong with foot rubs, but don't do them in a simpering puppy-dog way. Asking questions while you do them is a great idea.

Don't just forget about this. And read Not Just Friends.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Okay, so this is SO stupid and childish, and I am aware I'm over-analyzing every single moment. But, I need an opinion. This morning, before I left for work I ran up to the store to get some milk and cereal for the kids since its payday. While I was there, I bought her a Starbucks coffee and left it on the counter for her when I left for work.

I guess I was being too optimistic, but when I got to work I was expecting a 'thank you' email or something. But I haven't gotten any emails from her. Should I email her to ask if she even realized I got it for her?

Geez, I'm impatient... Sorry.


----------



## walkonmars

Hey Crossmyheart

Be sure to find out how he got her number. That's a big no-no since you were unaware she had given it out. And if he used his authority to get it from public records you should know that too. He may be a christian - but you know what? big whoop


----------



## walkonmars

Crossmyheart said:


> I guess I was being too optimistic, but when I got to work I was expecting a 'thank you' email or something. But I haven't gotten any emails from her. Should I email her to ask if she even realized I got it for her?
> 
> Geez, I'm impatient... Sorry.


Absolutely!

"Hey babe - I went out of my way to get you a coffee cause I was thinking of you. You okay?"


----------



## Hope1964

Crossmyheart said:


> Okay, so this is SO stupid and childish, and I am aware I'm over-analyzing every single moment. But, I need an opinion. This morning, before I left for work I ran up to the store to get some milk and cereal for the kids since its payday. While I was there, I bought her a Starbucks coffee and left it on the counter for her when I left for work.
> 
> I guess I was being too optimistic, but when I got to work I was expecting a 'thank you' email or something. But I haven't gotten any emails from her. Should I email her to ask if she even realized I got it for her?
> 
> Geez, I'm impatient... Sorry.


You're pursuing her. Stop it. Detach and start working on yourself. If you get her a coffee, it should be because you wanted to just be nice, not because you expect anything in return, and DEFINITELY not to impress her.

Did anyone suggest No More Mr Nice Guy to you yet??


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> You're pursuing her. Stop it. Detach and start working on yourself. If you get her a coffee, it should be because you wanted to just be nice, not because you expect anything in return, and DEFINITELY not to impress her.
> 
> Did anyone suggest No More Mr Nice Guy to you yet??


Yes, that has been suggested. I'm planning on looking into on my lunch break today.

I actually DID get her a coffee to be nice. I am a 'classic' nice guy and I ALWAYS have been. Since we've met. Yes, I have done some stupid things, but I AM that nice.


----------



## Hope1964

Then don't expect anything in return. When you do get something in return it's nice, but your self worth shouldn't be damaged because you don't get affirmation every time you do something nice.


----------



## Hope Springs Eternal

Crossmyheart said:


> Yes, that has been suggested. I'm planning on looking into on my lunch break today.
> 
> I actually DID get her a coffee to be nice. I am a 'classic' nice guy and I ALWAYS have been. Since we've met. Yes, I have done some stupid things, but I AM that nice.


You will catch a lot of sh1t here for being a nice guy. Just warning you...


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> Then don't expect anything in return. When you do get something in return it's nice, but your self worth shouldn't be damaged because you don't get affirmation every time you do something nice.


I understand Hope. Its just SO HARD for me to detach since I love her so much and just am naturally nice. Its hard to 'detach' since we see each other all the time. And I can't just start going off and doing my own thing. I have 4 kids, limited funds as well as limited time.

VERY GOOD POINT BTW.


----------



## Crossmyheart

bobka said:


> You will catch a lot of sh1t here for being a nice guy. Just warning you...


Thanks for the warning.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Definitely read Not Just Friends and No More Mr. Nice Guy (hard when you're working multiple jobs but better to do that pay so much attention to a wife who isn't noticing).

Stop doing any of the extras for her right now. This adds to her perception of you as a doormat.

Have a frank conversation about this man with her and that you're not comfortable with the amount of time and attention she's devoting to a relationship outside of your marriage. Try getting her to see it in a reversed situation - would she like it if you were spending this time and attention talking to a cute 21 year old girl?

Then ask her to call/email this other man and advise that the relationship is inappropriate, harmful to her marriage and that she will not be contacting him further. From there on, the cell phone is to remain open to you to review as needed. No deleting/altering anything. If you catch it, she's out. Done.


----------



## Hope1964

My husband is a 'nice guy' and I have been trying to get him to be more assertive for YEARS, so I know how you feel. But I don't WANT someone who, when I ask him if he would be interested in doing something, says "Only if you are". Because that leaves me to try and figure out what he really wants. By not telling me, it's putting me up on a pedestal, telling me my opinion matters more than his, which is unattractive. I want HIM to decide, or at least TELL me what his preferences are.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> Definitely read Not Just Friends and No More Mr. Nice Guy (hard when you're working multiple jobs but better to do that pay so much attention to a wife who isn't noticing).
> 
> Stop doing any of the extras for her right now. This adds to her perception of you as a doormat.
> 
> Have a frank conversation about this man with her and that you're not comfortable with the amount of time and attention she's devoting to a relationship outside of your marriage. Try getting her to see it in a reversed situation - would she like it if you were spending this time and attention talking to a cute 21 year old girl?
> 
> *Then ask her to call/email this other man and advise that the relationship is inappropriate, harmful to her marriage and that she will not be contacting him further. From there on, the cell phone is to remain open to you to review as needed. No deleting/altering anything. If you catch it, she's out. Done.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> God, I wish it was that easy. I've asked her to do that over a month ago and she got pissed; yes I know it means there is more going on. Maybe I should try again since things seem to have simmered down. I hope I'm not in denial.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Also, there's a piece of this puzzle I have left out, that I should now confess. My W (I think) is convinced that I cheated on her years ago, which I did not do. Sadly, (and w/o thinking) my past actions could appear as though I did. But I have told her repeatedly and even sworn on my departed Sister's soul that I did not ever have an affair. Just thought everyone should know. I am nice, but I guess stupid at times too.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Crossmyheart said:


> TCSRedhead said:
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely read Not Just Friends and No More Mr. Nice Guy (hard when you're working multiple jobs but better to do that pay so much attention to a wife who isn't noticing).
> 
> Stop doing any of the extras for her right now. This adds to her perception of you as a doormat.
> 
> Have a frank conversation about this man with her and that you're not comfortable with the amount of time and attention she's devoting to a relationship outside of your marriage. Try getting her to see it in a reversed situation - would she like it if you were spending this time and attention talking to a cute 21 year old girl?
> 
> *Then ask her to call/email this other man and advise that the relationship is inappropriate, harmful to her marriage and that she will not be contacting him further. From there on, the cell phone is to remain open to you to review as needed. No deleting/altering anything. If you catch it, she's out. Done.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> God, I wish it was that easy. I've asked her to do that over a month ago and she got pissed; yes I know it means there is more going on. Maybe I should try again since things seem to have simmered down. I hope I'm not in denial.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked - now tell. The other option is to pack a bag for one of you and head to divorce court OR choose to live in an open marriage.
> 
> I'm not trying to be mean or harsh (but I realize that's how this seems) but honest and truthful. If my husband had allowed my behavior to continue, it was very possible it may have escalated to a physical affair or me leaving the marriage.
> 
> Instead, he went nuclear and put his foot down. He stated what he would and would NOT live with in a marriage. I was mad but after the EA faded, I realized how stupid I had been to jeopardize my marriage.
Click to expand...


----------



## TCSRedhead

That's her shifting blame - easier to talk about you than herself and what she IS doing to ruin your marriage.


----------



## Hope1964

This isn't about what you didn't do years ago. If she brings that up, tell her to stuff it - it's irrelevant now. This is about what she IS doing NOW.

She needs to prove to you she isn't up to anything else. You need to demand that she do so. Anything less isn't going to cut it.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> This isn't about what you didn't do years ago. If she brings that up, tell her to stuff it - it's irrelevant now. This is about what she IS doing NOW.
> 
> She needs to prove to you she isn't up to anything else. You need to demand that she do so. Anything less isn't going to cut it.


Thanks Hope! I still feel rotten about it, but you can never TRULY CONVINCE someone of a past occurence. Unless it was filmed of course.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Crossmyheart said:


> Okay, so this is SO stupid and childish, and I am aware I'm over-analyzing every single moment. But, I need an opinion. This morning, before I left for work I ran up to the store to get some milk and cereal for the kids since its payday. While I was there, I bought her a Starbucks coffee and left it on the counter for her when I left for work.
> 
> I guess I was being too optimistic, but when I got to work I was expecting a 'thank you' email or something. But I haven't gotten any emails from her. Should I email her to ask if she even realized I got it for her?
> 
> Geez, I'm impatient... Sorry.


It's not odd to expect acknowledgment of the fact that you bought her coffee. It's a respectful act that deserves a respectful thank you in return. People in long time marriages do often start disrespecting each other in little ways. You are trying to change that, she is not. This needs to be addressed. Ask her in a non confrontational way if she realized the coffee was for her. If she says yes, then drop it. You got your answer and she will know why you asked. Later, a few hours, so she has time to digest your question and stew about her not thanking you, ask her if she has time to talk about something that is bothering you, then bring up mutual respect.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Crossmyheart said:


> Also, there's a piece of this puzzle I have left out, that I should now confess. My W (I think) is convinced that I cheated on her years ago, which I did not do. Sadly, (and w/o thinking) my past actions could appear as though I did. But I have told her repeatedly and even sworn on my departed Sister's soul that I did not ever have an affair. Just thought everyone should know. I am nice, but I guess stupid at times too.


People who are having affairs often accuse their spouse of having one. I didn't because I am more aware than most people, but there are several reasons why a straying spouse will do this. One is that it justifies their affair, two is because they feel guilty, three is because they are projecting their own behavior onto you as way to shift guilt and/or blame for their desire to stray. 

Tell her you will be willing to take a polygraph and ask her if she will take one. Watch her facial expressions and body language carefully. Look for fear or resistance. She may even get huffy, none of which are good.


----------



## Crossmyheart

remorseful strayer said:


> People who are having affairs often accuse their spouse of having one. I didn't because I am more aware than most people, but there are several reasons why a straying spouse will do this. One is that it justifies their affair, two is because they feel guilty, three is because they are projecting their own behavior onto you as way to shift guilt and/or blame for their desire to stray.
> 
> *Tell her you will be willing to take a polygraph and ask her if she will take one. Watch her facial expressions and body language carefully. Look for fear or resistance. She may even get huffy, none of which are good*.


Thats an awesome idea... Anyone happen to know how much a polygraph exam costs? Just in case.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Crossmyheart said:


> Thats an awesome idea... Anyone happen to know how much a polygraph exam costs? Just in case.


Between $200 to $800 dollars depending on the area you live. In large city areas the price is often the high end. Suburbs and exurbs have the lower end price.


----------



## tom67

Usually just threat threat of a polygraph can do wonders


----------



## Crossmyheart

tom67 said:


> Usually just threat threat of a polygraph can do wonders


I think I found my strategy. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Crossmyheart

How should I break it to her? Plus, I plan to follow-through and take one if needs be. I know I can't MAKE her take one, but maybe if I take one she'll cave in and do it or confess or this'll just keep on going.


----------



## TBT

Crossmyheart said:


> For the record, this guy is who he claims he is. He's even in a public position now. So, he's not "posing" behind some front. But yes, just because he says he's a Christian, doesn't make him a saint. And he DID go to a Christian Theological College; I checked it out. I even saw him on a YouTube video for the City Council election/speeches. Keep in mind, I live in a small town as well.


Firefighter to City Council to.....? He may have higher aspirations and that could be an ace in the hole for you.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TBT said:


> Firefighter to City Council to.....? He may have higher aspirations and that could be an ace in the hole for you.


I hear 'ya. I'm still not ready to play hardball yet. But IF that time comes, I'll bring it all down.


----------



## Hope1964

Before you ask her to do anything, you need to decide what will happen if she doesn't do what you need. So, if she won't take a polygraph, what then? Or, if she takes it and fails, what then? You need to have all this prepared before you talk to her about it. Write it down even.

Then just pick a time and tell her you need her undivided attention for however long, and say it. Ask her not to interrupt till you're done, then listen to her when you're done. Use 'I' statements and not 'you' statements.


----------



## Samus

Crossmyheart said:


> How should I break it to her? Plus, I plan to follow-through and take one if needs be. I know I can't MAKE her take one, but maybe if I take one she'll cave in and do it or confess or this'll just keep on going.


Instead of wasting time on Polygraphs and being so open about everything, why don't you do what has been suggested, which is invest in the VAR, which is not even close to 200$, and closer to less then $60 bucks. Be more discreet right now and go into investigation mode, you don't have enough to really suggest or say anything. If you continue to berate her with questions, your just going to make her hate you more. When you have enough information then confront her. Gather more INFORMATION!!!

That way you don't have to threaten her or make her feel threatened. It doesn't sound like she has done anything super wrong other then communicating with another man, which I don't agree with, but needs to be stopped.


----------



## TCSRedhead

Crossmyheart said:


> I hear 'ya. I'm still not ready to play hardball yet. But IF that time comes, I'll bring it all down.


CMH - you do realize there is no way to 'nice' someone out of an affair? Hardball is the only ball in the court you can play right now.

Playing softball means you stay exactly where you are and she keeps doing what she's doing. 

To get a different result, you have to do something different. Nice hasn't worked for you.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> CMH - you do realize there is no way to 'nice' someone out of an affair? Hardball is the only ball in the court you can play right now.
> 
> Playing softball means you stay exactly where you are and she keeps doing what she's doing.
> 
> To get a different result, you have to do something different. Nice hasn't worked for you.


Touche.


----------



## Samus

CMH, 

you keep playing softball while the OM is playing hardball with your wife. 

Man up dude!!:scratchhead:

If you want help, get the VAR. No need to be a jerk to the wife, but she should not be communicating with other men intimately. If she is not, then just get the voice activated recorder and pray that she is not doing anything.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Quick question. One other scenario I've been pondering is that (and I think someone already mentioned this earlier) what IF she was having a one-sided EA. For the past week, she's been kinda down and depressed. Are one-sided EA's recoverable? What kind of attitude should I take if (lets pretend here) he stopped communicating with her because he thought it was inappropriate on his part. Again, this is hypothetical. I'm not trying to convince myself this issue is over. Just want to cover all my bases.


----------



## Samus

Not your problem. If she is depressed because of another man.

All you can do is be a good husband and take care of your family and do fun things together. Going to the park, watching movies, playing games etc...

Typical family things. If she is depressed and its not because of you, then I don't know what to say. If she is depressed because of another man, then tough ****!!!!


----------



## Crossmyheart

Also, last weekend, I made a half serious/half jokingly remark about how it would be "interesting" if someone just happened to drop a little tidbit about Councilman's correspondence to the City Council. Pissed my wife off fierce, but maybe I made my point without knowing it. Dunno.


----------



## LookingForTheSun

Let me just say, that being a nice guy is not a bad thing. However, being a nice prson to a spouse who is quite possibly cheating on you will get you nothing. I would take a nice guy over a not so nice guy any day. Right now though, you have good reason to suspect that something is going on and she should acknowledge. 

If you see the coffee still on the counter when you get home, she didn't see it, but I am guessing that with 4 kids she was in the kitchen plenty and drank it up. Maybe she will thank you when you get home. 

Then when all is well, just say, "Hey, hon, I know you said that you are not talking to that guy anymore, right? Well, if that is the case, thank you, but I have some questions about how he got your name and number in the first place and just what did he want to talk to you about if you had never met before? If he contacts you again, I think we should all go out for coffee sometime together and find out what his intentions are unless you already know, and if so, please share so I am not burdond with the unknown...at least give me that."


----------



## Crossmyheart

And today, I stopped saying "I love you." I feel like I'm gathering a bit of strength again. Thanks all!


----------



## Crossmyheart

LookingForTheSun said:


> Then when all is well, just say, "Hey, hon, I know you said that you are not talking to that guy anymore, right? Well, if that is the case, thank you, but I have some questions about how he got your name and number in the first place and just what did he want to talk to you about if you had never met before? If he contacts you again, I think we should all go out for coffee sometime together and find out what his intentions are unless you already know, and if so, please share so I am not burdond with the unknown...at least give me that."


WOW! Thats poetry!!! Thank you Sun!!! Really, THANK YOU!


----------



## Samus

CMH,

Do you have any proof that your wife is having an EA or PA? I mean I haven't seen anything very proof worthy other then a few facebook chats that are non sexual you said right? or did I miss something?


----------



## Crossmyheart

Samus said:


> CMH,
> 
> Do you have any proof that your wife is having an EA or PA? I mean I haven't seen anything very proof worthy other then a few facebook chats that are non sexual you said right? or did I miss something?


Sorry, but here's what I got:
- After the Facebook request, her behavior changed. She started excercising and distanced herself from me. She even wanted "space".
- She took her phone with her EVERYWHERE, and would disappear in the bathroom for 30+ minutes.
- She started ignoring me on Facebook. I managed to get into her Facebook account and found out that she was "searching" for this guy and visiting his page 2-4 times daily.
- She told me she felt smothered and suffocated.
- She broke down a couple of weeks ago and (angrily) confessed that she was emailing/texting with him daily.
- She got VERY defensive anytime I brought up the fact of how much pain and concern the whole deal was causing.
- I also (shortly after his friend request) told her how I was not comfortable with some random guy being her "friend" on Facebook. I told her I was worried it would blossom into something more. She (of course) said it wouldn't, but then she started emailing him, then starting texting him and then I caught her on the phone with him one night. That was the same night she said she wanted space btw.

This is all about 3-4 week old news. She hasn't even mentioned the "needing space" thing in well over a month.


----------



## walkonmars

Crossmyheart said:


> Sorry, but here's what I got:
> - After the Facebook request, her behavior changed. She started excercising and distanced herself from me. She even wanted "space".
> - She took her phone with her EVERYWHERE, and would disappear in the bathroom for 30+ minutes.
> - She started ignoring me on Facebook. I managed to get into her Facebook account and found out that she was "searching" for this guy and visiting his page 2-4 times daily.
> - She told me she felt smothered and suffocated.
> - She broke down a couple of weeks ago and (angrily) confessed that she was emailing/texting with him daily.
> - She got VERY defensive anytime I brought up the fact of how much pain and concern the whole deal was causing.
> - I also (shortly after his friend request) told her how I was not comfortable with some random guy being her "friend" on Facebook. I told her I was worried it would blossom into something more. She (of course) said it wouldn't, but then she started emailing him, then starting texting him and then I caught her on the phone with him one night. That was the same night she said she wanted space btw.
> 
> This is all about 3-4 week old news. She hasn't even mentioned the "needing space" thing in well over a month.


Wish you'd said this on your first post. I read your 1st post as her being naive and innocently falling into a trap.


----------



## Samus

What walkonmars is trying to say, is this issue is bigger then you led us to believe. 

She is definetly having an emotional affair and it is 100% UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

Married women don't seek out men and visit there pages constantly. Something is very very fishy here. Her behavior saying you suffocate her and she feels smothered is ridiculous. Your her husband for god sakes. 

She is trying to push you away from what it sounds like to me. If you really love your wife, make a stop on this man, or you are going to lose her. Close the FB account down, take away the cell phone. She is ruining your marriage. Remind her that she is a mother of two beautiful girls and that they need stability. 

Tell her you don't want to see this family broken because of another man. Ask her what you lack, explain to her you will take a stance for your marriage but you won't be walked all over and you will leave and take the kids with you and she can have visitation rights. Make her know you are not scared. 

Do something, because this is utter buill**** and it seems like she is taking your for a ride.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Sorry for the misleading bits. Its just difficult to muster.


----------



## Hope1964

I'm glad you itemized all that. And the title of your thread says you think she may be engaging in more than just an EA.

NOW do you think you need the VAR?

She probably didn't like how you reacted so she's taken it underground.


----------



## Crossmyheart

I guess I should've come here earlier. Anyway, let me reiterate, that the list is about a month old. And its not like I've done nothing. I have expressed to her (at times firmly) about the whole situation. I have reminded her that she is a wonderul mother to 2 beautiful little girls and 2 wonderful young boys. I've told her I don't want her to do something that will compromise our family. Even that little remark about dropping a "hint" to the city council about what the OM has been doing, if he's done anything at all. 

Yes, she may have started to hide things more, but her behavior has receded back to what she was like before this all went down. She now leaves her phone around the house and tells me she loves me, etc. Yes, my firmness may have caused her to change, but if she's "pretending" she's doing a damn good job. 

I'm just not totally sold on this issue to be COMPLETELY over is all and I want it to be. Thats why SUN's comment was pretty enlightening for me.


----------



## Crossmyheart

I'm not trying to make excuses for her or defend her. I'm just letting you all know ehere things are CURRENTLY at and what best course of action I should take from here on out.

And as an example of her behavior being familiar again; she stayed in the breakroom at her work for her lunch. When we don't carpool, she usually goes and sits in the van with her phone. But today she ate her lunch in the breakroom. Thats just an example. And by no means PROOF everything is fine again. I know that.


----------



## TBT

Just curious how you know this....do you work together?


----------



## Crossmyheart

TBT said:


> Just curious how you know this....do you work together?


We're very close (or we used to be I suppose; otherwise I wouldn't be here) and I know her habits/routines. I called her on her lunchbreak and I overheard her talking to her boss in the breakroom.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Anyway, before times runs out, I need some advice for how I behave this weekend. I'm only asking because I RARELY get on the internet over the weekend. And I don't want to leave work without some kind of gameplan. Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks guys!


----------



## TCSRedhead

Typically, when a betrayed spouse goes lightly, the wayward spouse just hides it and starts behaving 'normally' to appease the betrayed spouse and buy time to continue the affair.


----------



## Hope1964

My suggestion for now is to keep observing, and to get a VAR.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> Typically, when a betrayed spouse goes lightly, the wayward spouse just hides it and starts behaving 'normally' to appease the betrayed spouse and buy time to continue the affair.


Noted.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> My suggestion for now is to keep observing, and to get a VAR.


What observations should I take note of given the current state HOPE?


----------



## TCSRedhead

Crossmyheart said:


> What observations should I take note of given the current state HOPE?


How does she react if you pick up her phone and look through it? Does she get upset?

I said this in another thread but privacy is for the bathroom not for texting/internet.


----------



## Hope1964

You can observe both the way she's acting, like you have been, and also try to find anything she may have hidden. My hubby kept his secret cell phone locked in his vehicle for months. He told me he kept the car locked so no one (ie kids) would go into it. In the garage. Observe her comings and goings. What she's wearing when she goes places. Everything. Get a VAR. Look at her emails and bank accounts and credit card statements.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> *How does she react if you pick up her phone and look through it? Does she get upset?*
> I said this in another thread but privacy is for the bathroom not for texting/internet.


She used to, but not anymore. Now, she doesn't really care and she only takes her phone with her in the bathroom about half as much as she used to. She also doesn't "disappear" in the bathroom anymore.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> You can observe both the way she's acting, like you have been, and also try to find anything she may have hidden. My hubby kept his secret cell phone locked in his vehicle for months. He told me he kept the car locked so no one (ie kids) would go into it. In the garage. Observe her comings and goings. What she's wearing when she goes places. Everything. Get a VAR. Look at her emails and bank accounts and credit card statements.


In terms of how she's acting, what signs or behaviors should I consider flags? She rarely goes out btw.


----------



## TDSC60

Is it possible for her to contact him using work related methods? A work phone or work computer. 

Can she step out of work for an hour during the day to meet someone? Is it possible for her to be late for work or leave early without you finding out?

One huge red flag for me is when a spouse starts being TOO nice after you address a possible connection with another man/woman.

My friend's wife was super nice to him. Made sure the house was cleaned. Did all the shopping, cooking and cleaning. Sex life went from so-so to incredible (his words). 

He was a totally satisfied husband with a beautiful thoughtful wife. Until he found out she had been in a PA for the last 2 years. All that she had been doing for him was just to keep him happy so he would not suspect the affair and stop her.

Not saying that is what is going on with you, but you would be foolish to think she may not have taken it underground.


----------



## Crossmyheart

TDSC60 said:


> Is it possible for her to contact him using work related methods? A work phone or work computer.
> 
> Can she step out of work for an hour during the day to meet someone? Is it possible for her to be late for work or leave early without you finding out?
> 
> One huge red flag for me is when a spouse starts being TOO nice after you address a possible connection with another man/woman.
> 
> My friend's wife was super nice to him. Made sure the house was cleaned. Did all the shopping, cooking and cleaning. Sex life went from so-so to incredible (his words).
> 
> He was a totally satisfied husband with a beautiful thoughtful wife. Until he found out she had been in a PA for the last 2 years. All that she had been doing for him was just to keep him happy so he would not suspect the affair and stop her.
> 
> Not saying that is what is going on with you, but you would be foolish to think she may not have taken it underground.


Agreed. I'm not trying to turn a blind eye to that possibility. But she hasn't gone to being SUPER-NICE to me or anything. Our sex life isn't any different.

I suppose she could use work related methods, but her co-workers are very nosey people who all like me very much. She'd have to have a lot of guts to contact him that way.

The biggest assurance I have, is the mere fact that neither of us really have a lot of time to conduct an affair. When we get off work we have to get our kids ASAP, because her Mom and sister watch them while we're at work and they usually get VERY short with us if we're late picking them up.


----------



## Hope1964

Most red flags have been covered. Basically just observe everything through the eyes of suspicion and see if your spidey senses tingle.


----------



## Hope1964

And quit thinking of why there's no way she could be doing it. Start thinking about how she COULD be.

If she isn't hiding stuff then you won't find anything.

So many BS's look back and see all the red flags they missed.

And if she gets indignant - well, that's a red flag too. You caught her doing something inappropriate. She should be a willing open book right now.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> And quit thinking of why there's no way she could be doing it. Start thinking about how she COULD be.
> 
> If she isn't hiding stuff then you won't find anything.
> 
> So many BS's look back and see all the red flags they missed.
> 
> And if she gets indignant - well, that's a red flag too. You caught her doing something inappropriate. She should be a willing open book right now.


Gotcha. Unless something HUGE happens, I'll update everyone how the weekend went on Monday. I'm going to have a hard time keeping my mouth shut, but I'll step back and observe. Maybe I'll play some video games, play with the kids, etc. Football is on Sunday. The Steelers are playing Sunday night. We usually always watch Bears and Steelers games together.


----------



## Hope1964

We are Green Bay fans over here. I love football! Grey Cup is next weekend and we're headed for that on Wed. CIS and CFL finals are this weekend too.


----------



## Crossmyheart

*sigh* Why do nice guys always finish last? I'm just sitting here, bored at work, waiting for time to tick on down so I can go to my evening job. I think I have too much time on my hands and it drives my mind into a state of paranoia over this whole situation.


----------



## Hope1964

It isn't the time on your hands that's the problem, it's what you do with it.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Hope1964 said:


> It isn't the time on your hands that's the problem, it's what you do with it.


Very nice...


----------



## Thinkitthrough

CMH; The longer you spend waiting for someone to give you the answer you want to hear the further away your wife is drifting. Posting and not doing anything won't help you save your marriage.
Do something, get the VAR, check the phone bill, find out what is going on and then you will know. There are so many threads on this forum wher the BS dithers about and doesn't act until it is far too late.


----------



## Shaggy

Get the VAR ASAP and you will be on the path.

I'm thinking she start off doing it sloppily and naively, and that she talked to him about your noticing and he's coached her or her friends have coached her.

Typical things like burner phones, keeping it down when you are around.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Shaggy said:


> Get the VAR ASAP and you will be on the path.
> 
> I'm thinking she start off doing it sloppily and naively, and that she talked to him about your noticing and he's coached her or her friends have coached her.
> 
> Typical things like burner phones, keeping it down when you are around.


These are good points.

I cheated during lunch, and made a point to never go out at night to cheat. Also, burner phones are so easy to buy and hide. I paid cash for the phone. I paid cash for the hotel, cash for lunch or gifts for the OW.

Get the VAR.

The OW wanted more and she exposed hoping to force my wife to divorce me. She did. I am trying to win her back. Unfortunately the first time she caught me cheating with a prostitute, she only kicked me out for six months, than she took me back. It wasn't a serious enough consequence, I guess.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Not much to report over the weekend. I know many of you have said I need to ACT NOW, but I just want to observe at the moment since her behavior changed back to normal (kind of) last week. I am going to get a VAR and stash it in the van. But we carpool everyday except Thursdays and Fridays; so I really won't get anything from the VAR until then.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Anyone have a good ideas of where I could hide the VAR? I'm starting to think that my W MAY have bought a burner phone. The only place I can think of for now is the van, but are there any other good places I could put it?


----------



## Crossmyheart

Has anyone (in this forum) ever been wrong about constantly accusing a spouse of cheating when they really weren't? Just curious...


----------



## remorseful strayer

Crossmyheart said:


> Has anyone (in this forum) ever been wrong about constantly accusing a spouse of cheating when they really weren't? Just curious...


Unless you are a really jealous sort of guy, and I don't get that impression, and if you suspect your wife is stepping out, she likely is. It may not be sexual yet, but it is going that way. Secure the var under the seat of the car in a way that ensures it won't fall out. I mainly talked to the other women in my car on my burn phone. If you suspect she is using your home to cheat. Stash them behind the headboard and couches.


----------



## Crossmyheart

If my W is so unhappy being with me, why won't she just come out (like an adult) and talk about our issues and if a divorce is what we should do? I've given her PLENTY of opportunities.


----------



## remorseful strayer

Crossmyheart said:


> If my W is so unhappy being with me, why won't she just come out (like an adult) and talk about our issues and if a divorce is what we should do? I've given her PLENTY of opportunities.


No one can diagnose your wife's issues online. 

suffice it to say, she it's possible she has some type of sexual compulsion or lack of impulse control. It could be any number of other things too. Some untreatable. Some treatable. Affairs are about secrecy though. That's part of the thrill sometimes, and mostly straying mates don't think they will be caught, even though they almost always are.

I had no issues with my wife. She was a good wife but sex was routine after so many years together and I was an idiot.


----------



## the guy

Wayward spouse have alot of reason to stay with there betrayed spouse. From what i have read most stay cuz the OM is younger, unsuccessful and going no were in life...they can bearly take care of them selfe much less a women with kids. So the wayward stay for the securty and stablity the spouse has to offer but goes out for the excitement and thrill.

In your case, I see that you wife's affection/interest in a man that is unobtainable, but in the same breath finds she already has you and you are a sure thing. This infatuation she has with the counselmen is a fantasy with no future, so she stays.

Or

Worst case, she is waiting to see if the couselmen will step up and take her away, a sure thing for her....making you her plan B, by having you around until some real commitment comes from the counselmen, and if that doesn't happen she will still have you.

These are all asumption on my part with regard to the possiblity that she won't leave you. In short she doesn't want to hurt you by making any of the above statement.

Lets face it if my wife came up to me and told me she was in a fantasy that had no future but wanted to continue I would be pissed. If my wife came up to me and said if the other man doesn't want me I will stay with you...well then I would throw her out.

So as much as it is to be honest it aslo alot harder and painful. It much easier to lie and hide the truth.


On a side note I think your wife is only one month in and it's time to start protecting your marriage no matter how angry she gets. It will be her choice to except the protection you have to offer or not and leave.

I also think the VAR will yield alot more info on how fragile your marriage really is and will justify the tough love approuch you will need to take control of your marriage.

You can't control your wife but you can control your marrige by setting up boundries and consequences for when those boundries are crossed. So make no mistake this has nothing to do with your wife but what you want out of a marriage and the respect you diserve being a married man.

Time to start commanding respect. Especially if the VAR reveals a serious danger to your marriage.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Wayward spouse have alot of reason to stay with there betrayed spouse. From what i have read most stay cuz the OM is younger, unsuccessful and going no were in life...they can bearly take care of them selfe much less a women with kids. So the wayward stay for the securty and stablity the spouse has to offer but goes out for the excitement and thrill.
> 
> In your case, I see that you wife's affection/interest in a man that is unobtainable, but in the same breath finds she already has you and you are a sure thing. This infatuation she has with the counselmen is a fantasy with no future, so she stays.
> 
> Or
> 
> Worst case, she is waiting to see if the couselmen will step up and take her away, a sure thing for her....making you her plan B, by having you around until some real commitment comes from the counselmen, and if that doesn't happen she will still have you.
> 
> These are all asumption on my part with regard to the possiblity that she won't leave you. In short she doesn't want to hurt you by making any of the above statement.
> 
> Lets face it if my wife came up to me and told me she was in a fantasy that had no future but wanted to continue I would be pissed. If my wife came up to me and said if the other man doesn't want me I will stay with you...well then I would throw her out.
> 
> So as much as it is to be honest it aslo alot harder and painful. It much easier to lie and hide the truth.
> 
> 
> On a side note I think your wife is only one month in and it's time to start protecting your marriage no matter how angry she gets. It will be her choice to except the protection you have to offer or not and leave.
> 
> I also think the VAR will yield alot more info on how fragile your marriage really is and will justify the tough love approuch you will need to take control of your marriage.
> 
> You can't control your wife but you can control your marrige by setting up boundries and consequences for when those boundries are crossed. So make no mistake this has nothing to do with your wife but what you want out of a marriage and the respect you diserve being a married man.
> 
> Time to start commanding respect. Especially if the VAR reveals a serious danger to your marriage.


Thank you Guy! That was very insightful. My W has been acting like her old self lately, but a lot of people have told me that its possible she just went underground with what she may be doing. I don't want to discount the fact that her fantasy (if thats what it was) has burned out or the Councilman got nervous and stopped communicating with her.

I just FEEL like she has "woken up", but a small inkling is telling me its not over. I HOUNDED her for 2 months (shortly after it all started) about this issue and told her how it was making me feel. I just wish I could have a conversation (not a fight) with her that would help me put this issue to rest. But I doubt she'll admit or understand my concerns. I've got to get the VAR to confirm this I suppose.


----------



## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> Thank you Guy! That was very insightful. My W has been acting like her old self lately, but a lot of people have told me that its possible she just went underground with what she may be doing. I don't want to discount the fact that her fantasy (if thats what it was) has burned out or the Councilman got nervous and stopped communicating with her.
> 
> I just FEEL like she has "woken up", but a small inkling is telling me its not over. I HOUNDED her for 2 months (shortly after it all started) about this issue and told her how it was making me feel. I just wish I could have a conversation (not a fight) with her that would help me put this issue to rest. But I doubt she'll admit or understand my concerns. I've got to get the VAR to confirm this I suppose.



the VAR will confirm if it went underground or she found someone else.

So in that breath...thats what sucks. When I swept it under the carpet so many years ago. My wife just found some one else and continued this behavior for years...hell sometimes she would go 5 years being straight only to start about again.

Its scary your wife will not address this issue and face the reality that she needs to do more to affair proof the marriage.

Even if the VAR yields a danger in the marriage, then maybe this smoking gun is what you both need to make her face the damage she is causing and face the issue/behavior as an individual to make healthier choices for her self and her marriage.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Its scary your wife will not address this issue and face the reality that she needs to do more to affair proof the marriage.
> 
> Even if the VAR yields a danger in the marriage, then maybe this smoking gun is what you both need to make her face the damage she is causing and face the issue/behavior as an individual to make healthier choices for her self and her marriage.


Again, well put Guy. Make NO mistake; I love my W with all my heart, but I can't MAKE her change. I have addressed the hurt her actions are causing. I guess (in a weird, sick way) I'm getting a little dose of my own medicine since I kinda put her through a similiar situation once, but I learned from it and powered forward. Maybe (just maybe) the same will happen to her.


----------



## the guy

You have no idea were I'm coming from 

Man what I did to my old lady was criminal. But I changed.

My point is not about what you and me did and no matter how many time our chicks want to throw it in our face the bottom line is "do they still want to stay married to us right now" and if the answer is yes then these are the new boundries to keep us around.


----------



## the guy

Its so easy to except the finger point your chick do to us, then they go off and mess around, and we want to blame our selves. I say screw that...I love my wife but I love my self more and command the respect I diserve....maybe i have to much self respect for my own good but if thats what it takes to protect my family well then so be it.....my old lady knows were the door is if she thinks she can find someone that lovers her more then me.


----------



## Crossmyheart

I know this is a funny/stupid question, but what are the signs of a spouse AFTER having an EA and realizing it was wrong?


----------



## Chaparral

Getb the VAR, your marriage is worht every penny. Walmart and best buy have them for under fifty dollars. Areally gooe one is at best buy, Olymous for about 100 dollars, Get heavy duty velcro and put it under the seat.

Two jobs leave no time for a relationship. How long has this been going on and why?


----------



## Chaparral

Crossmyheart said:


> I know this is a funny/stupid question, but what are the signs of a spouse AFTER having an EA and realizing it was wrong?


Like what every addict goes through , look up withdrawal symptoms. Depression, sadness, irritability etc.

Did you look up her cell phone /text records to see hom much she was texting?

Have you bought Not Just Friends yet? You can't afford to go cheap.


----------



## remorseful strayer

SandyD said:


> I do have some girlfriends who seem to have male friendships. But either they secretly lust after the men or the men secretly lust after them. Or they're same-sex buddies of their husbands/boyfriends and thus respect them. That has been my experience. You can't conduct unilateral friendships when you're married because these feelings will be there and, without boundaries, they can destroy a marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Insightful post, Sandy, This EA needs to end, if this man wants to save his marriage. I have said it before and will say it again. There is no such thing as a purely emotional affair. The two strayers have either already had sex a few times, whenever possible without getting caught, or they are PLANNING too. The only reason they have not had sex is lack of opportunity without getting caught. 

It is rare for two people of opposite sex to ONLY be friends, if they are meeting in secret or communicating in secret. If it is true friendship, the spouse would be allowed to know about the communications. 

The longer this EA continues the easier it will be for them to justify having sex. Also if they are sexting or fantasizing about sex with each other is it really now only an emotional affair? No it has already turned sexual and the physical aspect is soon to follow.

I have no interest in befriending another women. My wife was my friend. I strayed not because I was looking for friendship, I was looking for sexual variety.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Okay... Well, just when I thought things were better. They got worse. Caught my W texting with him (Monday night) and saw a message from him to her reading, "Hope you got everything worked out at home." This is (obviously) stating that she has reached out to him and probably told him how unhappy she is with our marriage. Of course, she denies this. We fought about it after I discovered it and she kept saying "I swear to God nothing is going on... I have no idea what he meant by that message..." Blah, blah, blah. She then went to her Moms for awhile (this was true) and when she got home she kissed me and said she loves me more than anything and that I have to trust her. At any rate, I'm going to go get a VAR and am currently contacting a lawyer and (as we speak) printing out divorce papers. Nice Thanksgiving day for me, huh?

There was a time when I tried to understand her and comfort her and do all I could to save this marriage. But to be honest, I don't really feel this marriage is worth saving anymore. Its clear she has no respect for my feelings. Guess I was in denial, but not anymore. Its time to move on. If she wants him, she can have him. All I care about now is my children. Sadly, since I have no legal ties to the twin boys, I can't fight to see them. But I know she won't keep them from me because they would never forgive her. My 2 little girls, *sigh* I love them so much!


----------



## the guy

You are actually in a good place by having this additude towards your wife. Now you can show her the tough love and confidence that you can move on with out her and now have the ability to show her the hard consequences for when your boundries a crossed.

No contact means no contact and if that is broken you will file.

Now that the emotional connection with your wife is fading and you are (maybe not willing ) confident to let her go, it will be up to her to do the heavy lifting to keep her marriage.

Her heavy lifting actions should include full transparentcy, having all passwords to her accounts, cell, labtop, social networks. She has the choice to be accountable for her were abouts and stay incontact with you. She makes an appointment for some IC to learn the tools to affair proof her marriage and understands her issues with the lack of boundries, entitlement, validation, or what problem she has that effect her in having a healthy commited marriage. She also makes the appointment to MC, so not only is she working on her infidelity problem but also her marriage problems.

These are just some of the thing that she needs to take...not you...but her and her attemp to keep this marriage. From were you are sitting the marriage is down, it is up to her to sh1t or get off the pot to save it.

Until this shift in power is established then it will be evident to you how important the marriage is, and if she can take immediate action before the divorce is finalized then you will withdraw the filing.

So you take the action to finish this bull crap and if she is serious she will take the action to stop it.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> You are actually in a good place by having this additude towards your wife. Now you can show her the tough love and confidence that you can move on with out her and now have the ability to show her the hard consequences for when your boundries a crossed.
> 
> No contact means no contact and if that is broken you will file.
> 
> Now that the emotional connection with your wife is fading and you are (maybe not willing ) confident to let her go, it will be up to her to do the heavy lifting to keep her marriage.
> 
> Her heavy lifting actions should include full transparentcy, having all passwords to her accounts, cell, labtop, social networks. She has the choice to be accountable for her were abouts and stay incontact with you. She makes an appointment for some IC to learn the tools to affair proof her marriage and understands her issues with the lack of boundries, entitlement, validation, or what problem she has that effect her in having a healthy commited marriage. She also makes the appointment to MC, so not only is she working on her infidelity problem but also her marriage problems.
> 
> These are just some of the thing that she needs to take...not you...but her and her attemp to keep this marriage. From were you are sitting the marriage is down, it is up to her to sh1t or get off the pot to save it.
> 
> Until this shift in power is established then it will be evident to you how important the marriage is, and if she can take immediate action before the divorce is finalized then you will withdraw the filing.
> 
> So you take the action to finish this bull crap and if she is serious she will take the action to stop it.


Indeed. I (again) am a naturally nice guy who just wanted to make his W happy. But now, the gloves are coming off and my goals have changed. Not sure how receptive my W will be. I KNOW she'll be angry as all HELL which will be difficult for me to bear, but I suppose thats one of the steps I'll have to cope with.

Trying to decide when it'll be best to tell her I'm filing; or should I not tell her and file anyway. Need some help guys. I know I can't use this as a bluff btw.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Not trying to chicken out, but I think I'll wait to discuss this with her until next week so I have an opportunity to go over it with my therapist. Sad that this has to happen around the holidays though.


----------



## warlock07

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...ok-friend-my-feelings-jealousy-justified.html

Read this thread..His wife did far less than your wife and look how he is reacting(read till the end)


----------



## warlock07

What phone does she have ?


----------



## the guy

Waywards are always angry when the betrayed stop being doormats and stop sharing their wives. See it pisses them off that they can nolonger have there cake and eat it to...get it?

In fact its a good sign they get pissed, its a indicator that the affair is no longer convienent and comfortable as it once was when the wayward was in the dark.

Stay stonge, no more Mr. nice guy, show her thru your actions that you will no loger share her with another man.

Do you guys already have a talk about NC before Monday? if so then why tell her again but take action. I mean one would think that you told her to stop talking to the OM and if she can't then you were thru...if this is the case then go dark and file.

If you guy have not discussed this boundrie then it may be time to do so. In fact if the NC was not talked about then a few words are needed to let her know that you do have new boundries and the consequences for when thse boundries are craossed will be the termination of the marriage. I see no reason to explain why, but just the simple fact that you have had enough and in order to protect you emotioanlly you will let her go.


Its after a firm but calm conversation about boundries and consequences is done that you see if they are crossed and then go dark and file.

So, again is she aware about the NC boudry?

In fact have you discussed her writing a NC letter and you reading and delivering it?


----------



## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> Not trying to chicken out, but I think I'll wait to discuss this with her until next week so I have an opportunity to go over it with my therapist. Sad that this has to happen around the holidays though.


Sad this has to happen at all, regardless of the holidays. Whats sad is it is her mess that you have to clean up enless she changes her tune!


----------



## Acabado

The Healing Heart: The 180


----------



## Crossmyheart

warlock07 said:


> What phone does she have ?


??? Not trying to be rude, but what does that matter? If you're inquiring about requesting records for her cell, I can't. She is on a family plan with her Mom and siblings.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Waywards are always angry when the betrayed stop being doormats and stop sharing their wives. See it pisses them off that they can nolonger have there cake and eat it to...get it?
> 
> In fact its a good sign they get pissed, its a indicator that the affair is no longer convienent and comfortable as it once was when the wayward was in the dark.
> 
> Stay stonge, no more Mr. nice guy, show her thru your actions that you will no loger share her with another man.
> 
> Do you guys already have a talk about NC before Monday? if so then why tell her again but take action. I mean one would think that you told her to stop talking to the OM and if she can't then you were thru...if this is the case then go dark and file.
> 
> If you guy have not discussed this boundrie then it may be time to do so. In fact if the NC was not talked about then a few words are needed to let her know that you do have new boundries and the consequences for when thse boundries are craossed will be the termination of the marriage. I see no reason to explain why, but just the simple fact that you have had enough and in order to protect you emotioanlly you will let her go.
> 
> 
> Its after a firm but calm conversation about boundries and consequences is done that you see if they are crossed and then go dark and file.
> 
> So, again is she aware about the NC boudry?
> 
> In fact have you discussed her writing a NC letter and you reading and delivering it?


T obe fair, I've told her how it makes me feel texting/talking to him, but I haven't established a boundry. But, after the last text I found on Monday, I told her there are boundaries in our marriage I'm not comfortable with being crossed. I guess reiterate the boundry, get a VAR and be prepared for filing.


----------



## the guy

He may beable to help you hack into it to see actual text when she is fast asleep. Some phone can be syniced to your laptop.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> He may beable to help you hack into it to see actual text when she is fast asleep. Some phone can be syniced to your laptop.


Wow. Now, THAT would be something!!!


----------



## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> T obe fair, I've told her how it makes me feel texting/talking to him, but I haven't established a boundry. But, after the last text I found on Monday, I told her there are boundaries in our marriage I'm not comfortable with being crossed. I guess reiterate the boundry, get a VAR and be prepared for filing.


Well that was beta...stop using the words like "not comfortable" and "I feel"

Try using word like "unacceptable" and "action will be taken" and "no longer tolorate"

Its pretty clear your comfort does not concern her anymore. If she respected your comfort/feeling you wouldn't be in this mess.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Thought I'd share this. This was a message she sent me yesterday via Facebook after I asked her (for thr the 50th+ time) if there was anything else I should know of what may or may not be going on.

"I'm honestly not sure how to respond. What do you want me to say? Not trying to get an attitude, but honestly at this point anything I say is just going to upset you. Nothing is going on. I am not actively talking to him or any one and I'm not looking to. I just enjoyed talking with another adult who didn't already know how ****ed up I am, stupid I know, but true. Like I said I am no longer talking to ANYONE. This is over and had been for quite sometime. Can we please stop going over and over with the same issues."


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Well that was beta...stop using the words like "not comfortable" and "I feel"
> 
> Try using word like "unacceptable" and "action will be taken" and "no longer tolorate"
> 
> *Its pretty clear your comfort does not concern her anymore. If she respected your comfort/feeling you wouldn't be in this mess*.


EXACTLY WHY I'm ready to file. If she doesn't respect my concerns, then she has made her point.


----------



## warlock07

don't bluff a divorce unless you are ready for it...
you lose credibility


first thing you need to find the nature of her relationship with this guy. Does she use the home computer to facebook ? what phone does she have?

"I'm honestly not sure how to respond. What do you want me to say? Not trying to get an attitude, but honestly at this point anything I say is just going to upset you. Nothing is going on. I am not actively talking to him or any one and I'm not looking to. I just enjoyed talking with another adult who didn't already know how ****ed up I am, stupid I know, but true. Like I said I am no longer talking to ANYONE. This is over and had been for quite sometime. Can we please stop going over and over with the same issues."

She has esteem issues like you and is vulnerable to an affair..why does she think she is ****ed up? discussing relationship issues is the first stage of an affair. she is doing that..did she explain the context of her message? is she deleting the messages


----------



## Crossmyheart

warlock07 said:


> don't bluff a divorce unless you are ready for it...
> you lose credibility
> 
> 
> first thing you need to find the nature of her relationship with this guy. Does she use the home computer to facebook ? what phone does she have?
> 
> "I'm honestly not sure how to respond. What do you want me to say? Not trying to get an attitude, but honestly at this point anything I say is just going to upset you. Nothing is going on. I am not actively talking to him or any one and I'm not looking to. I just enjoyed talking with another adult who didn't already know how ****ed up I am, stupid I know, but true. Like I said I am no longer talking to ANYONE. This is over and had been for quite sometime. Can we please stop going over and over with the same issues."
> 
> She has esteem issues like you and is vulnerable to an affair..why does she think she is ****ed up? discussing relationship issues is the first stage of an affair. she is doing that..did she explain the context of her message? is she deleting the messages


She is consistently unhappy with her life as well as angry. I have done all I can to make her feel special. I have suggested counseling many times, but she always refuses. I have suggested seeing a doctor or trying a medication, but (again) she refuses. She has even acknowledged (in the past) that she knows she's a b***h and gets upset with herself of how she treats me. She flip-flops A LOT!


----------



## TBT

Crossmyheart said:


> Like I said I am no longer talking to ANYONE. This is over and had been for quite sometime.


His recent message to her calls this into question....she must have been talking about your marriage and situation to him.


----------



## Crossmyheart

This is her game; thinking all is well. Blah, blah, blah... She just sent me this email:

"Hope your day goes by quickly!! I love you. What time are you coming home? Do you want to come to moms house and I can follow you home in the van to drop off the car or do you want to come home and call me and I'll come get you??? 

Love you!"


----------



## Crossmyheart

I've thought about emailing the OM, but at this point I'm not sure it'll resolve anything. And actually, I'm nearing the point where I could care less. He can have her.


----------



## lovelygirl

the guy said:


> Well that was beta...stop using the words like "not comfortable" and "I feel"
> 
> Try using word like "*unacceptable*" and "*action will be taken*" and "*no longer tolerated*"
> 
> Its pretty clear your comfort does not concern her anymore. If she respected your comfort/feeling you wouldn't be in this mess.


I'm amazing how the choice of words can impact that other person and how they see you. 

_the guy_ is spot on!


----------



## VFW

I'm a little befuddled here. How would you describe you current sex life? How would you describe intimacy between you and your wife (besides sex)? If these seem good, you may be jumping the gun. I'm not saying this relationship with OM is acceptable, but not be what you perceive. How does she say they met? I may have missed something in the post, but it seems confusing to me.


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> I've thought about emailing the OM, but at this point I'm not sure it'll resolve anything. And actually, I'm nearing the point where I could care less. He can have her.


wait. See what she's got to say when she gets home. See her reaction, her body-language, facial expressions and so on. 

You're one of the few beta posters here who's trying to act alpha in a snap of the fingers. This is good but on the other hand you could be making mistakes along the way. Just relax and think it over.


----------



## Crossmyheart

VFW said:


> I'm a little befuddled here. How would you describe you current sex life? How would you describe intimacy between you and your wife (besides sex)? If these seem good, you may be jumping the gun. I'm not saying this relationship with OM is acceptable, but not be what you perceive. How does she say they met? I may have missed something in the post, but it seems confusing to me.


He just "happened to randomly" friend request her on Facebook. Then it went to email, then to text and then to phone call.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> wait. See what she's got to say when she gets home. See her reaction, her body-language, facial expressions and so on.
> 
> You're one of the few beta posters here who's trying to act alpha in a snap of the fingers. This is good but on the other hand you could be making mistakes along the way. Just relax and think it over.


I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


REALLY???



Then go ahead! Serve the D papers *ONLY IF* you're 110% sure you're up for this and you're more than ready to let her go!


----------



## lovelygirl

God, she was defending the OM. She was so sure about it that she didn't care nor about the kids nor about you.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> God, she was defending the OM. She was so sure about it that she didn't care about nor the kids nor you.


Yep, pretty painful, huh? Thats one of the reasons I'm getting myself ready to file and move on. She clearly has misplaced her priorities and has left me with little choice.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> *God, she was defending the OM. *She was so sure about it that she didn't care about nor the kids nor you.


Is this rare?


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> Is this rare?


From what I've heard/read it's not rare. It's what happens when the cheating wife is in the affair-fog.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> From what I've heard/read it's not rare. It's what happens when the cheating wife is in the affair-fog.


I hope I can stay strong through this. Its not going to be easy, but she has left me with little to no options.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> From what I've heard/read it's not rare. *It's what happens when the cheating wife is in the affair-fog*.


Please elaborate if you could.


----------



## Crossmyheart

What would happen if I just out of the blue (later tonight) asked her if we should consider divorce? So tempting...


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> Please elaborate if you could.


I don't have a link but the TAM veterans can explain it to you better.
Affair fog is the state of mind where the WS can't reason/think clearly because her mind is flooded with emotions/hormones/chemicals from the affair. She thinks the affair partner is way better than their betrayed spouse and they have this tendency to protect/defend the OM.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Everyone makes mistakes. The best advice I can give is: if you want to save your marriage or if you aren't quite sure what you want to do, just confess. Tell your spouse everything. When they ask questions, give answers. *For some spouses that I have encountered, the betrayed spouse writes his/her questions out and gives them to their wayward spouse with a time limit of one week or less, depending on the individual. The wayward spouse has this time to contemplate their answers and no one feels like they are put "on the spot".* From what I have gathered from other wayward spouses, the "getting it off my chest" was the best thing they could have done, whether or not It put the cards out on the table, and they HAD to make a decision about their marriage 

I found the stuff above on another website dealing with infidelity. I like the strategy that I bolded. My W HATES being put on the spot. Maybe I should consider this...


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> What would happen if I just out of the blue (later tonight) asked her if we should consider divorce? So tempting...


Do it and see her reaction.
Don't be afraid. Just be civil.


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> Do it and see her reaction.
> Don't be afraid. Just be civil.


Can you give me a good example I can work from?


----------



## VFW

Crossmyheart said:


> He just "happened to randomly" friend request her on Facebook. Then it went to email, then to text and then to phone call.


Oh come on cowboy, that dog don't hunt. You mean to tell me she wants you to believe he is just randomly sending friend requests because.....he's lonely....he was looking for votes? No this doesn't make any sense. He has to be a friend of a friend, met at a political rally, school event......something. I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. 

PS: How about the intimacy question?


----------



## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> Can you give me a good example I can work from?


You can remind her of the fact that she mentioned divorce a few days earlier and that now this is an option for you too. 
Tell her that you can't rug sweep this affair anymore [because that's what's happening] and how she was so fast to protect the OM and throw away her family without having second thoughts.

Then see her reaction. 
Ideally, she should beg on her knees and promise to tell you EVERY SINGLE detail from the affair if she wants to make this marriage work and she MUST prove she has ended it. 


If she doesn't do this or does less and takes it easier by rug sweeping more then your D papers are ready to be served.

And don't be fooled by the make up sex. Don't be fooled by her Iloveyous and/or by her hugs. 
The talk should be only about the affair and not how much she says she loves you. Oh and the crocodile tears might be there too but if you know your wife very well you should make the difference when she's being honest and when not.


Edit: I recommend you wait for other experienced members to give you more advice on how to confront her.


----------



## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


Here is a senerio to think about;

[you] "I want a divorce so I contacted ( use OM name)}"
[her] "You didn't"
[you] " yes I did so when will you get the D papers to me"
[her] "you SOB"
[you] " really I just want a divorce so *I* can move on"
[her] "OK fine"
[you] " can you leave now, you might want to tell (use OM name) the good news in person and let him know I will be dropping your things off at his place soon"


That would be great if you could use his address and ask her to confirm it, you won't want to send her things to the wrong boyfriend (implying you think she has more then one OM....).


Hell, you might want to email him and ask for his address so that you can make sure your wife's thing get to the right place.


----------



## Crossmyheart

*How's this???*


It is with a very heart that I write this to you. Believe me that I feel I have no other choice. I am your Husband and I love you, but the trust in our marriage/relationship has been damaged. And at this point, I do not know what your intentions are. You have said you wanted space, a separation and even threatened me with divorce. So, let me state that divorce is now an option for me as well. 

But before either of us proceeds with this option, I want to give you the opportunity, one last time, to please tell me exactly what was going on with the OM and that I must have some kind of proof that it’s over. I wrote out a few questions I have. I hope that you can be honest and know that only the truth will be acceptable. I don’t like being so direct or firm, but if you (or I) want any kind of peace, the truth is the only route we can take. No more lies. If you decide to not answer this or just rip it up and throw it away, I will consider this your way of agreeing or accepting that a divorce is our only option. But also take note, that we all make mistakes. And I would very much like to see us heal this wound and fix our marriage to a healthier one. That is my hope. And don’t think of this as any kind of “power struggle”; this is a method to clear your conscience.

WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM, REALLY?




HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU MEET IN PERSON?




WHAT KIND OF MARRIAGE DID YOU TELL HIM WE HAD?




WHY WOULD YOU RISK OUR MARRIAGE OVER HIM?




WHY DID YOU PROCEED TO TALK WITH HIM AFTER I REPEATEDLY EXPRESSED HOW CONCERNED I WAS?

Again, this isn’t what I wanted this to come to, but it has. Divorce is the LAST option I ever wanted, but we can’t sweep this incident under the rug. Otherwise, we’ll both be unhappy and live in constant stress. I’ll give you a week to give this back to me. Again, if you choose not to do this, I will write the OM, tell him my story and file for divorce.


----------



## lovelygirl

First off - Writing an email wouldn't be the best option. You would be seen as weak and afraid to confront her.
You need to face her and talk to her firmly, and eye to eye.

Second off - the words such as those that I bolded should be OFF the vocabulary when you confront her face to face.



Crossmyheart said:


> *How's this???*
> 
> 
> *It is with a very heart that I write this to you*. *Believe me* that I feel I have no other choice. I am your Husband and *I love you*, but the trust in our marriage/relationship has been damaged. And at this point, *I do not know what your intentions are*. You have said you wanted space, a separation and even threatened me with divorce. So, let me state that divorce is now an option for me as well.
> 
> But before either of us proceeds with this option, I want to give you the opportunity, one last time, to *please* tell me exactly what was going on with the OM and that I must have some kind of proof that it’s over. I wrote out a few questions I have. *I hope *that you can be honest and know that only the truth will be acceptable. *I don’t like being so direct or firm,* but if you (or I) want any kind of peace, the truth is the only route we can take. No more lies. If you decide to not answer this or just rip it up and throw it away, I will consider this your way of agreeing or accepting that a divorce is our only option. But also take note, that we all make mistakes. And I would very much like to see us heal this wound and fix our marriage to a healthier one. That is my hope. And don’t think of this as any kind of “power struggle”; this is a method to clear your conscience.
> 
> WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM, REALLY?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU MEET IN PERSON?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT KIND OF MARRIAGE DID YOU TELL HIM WE HAD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY WOULD YOU RISK OUR MARRIAGE OVER HIM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY DID YOU PROCEED TO TALK WITH HIM AFTER I REPEATEDLY EXPRESSED HOW CONCERNED I WAS?
> 
> Again,* this isn’t what I wanted this to come to*, but it has. Divorce is the LAST option I ever wanted, but we can’t sweep this incident under the rug. Otherwise, we’ll both be unhappy and live in constant stress. *I’ll give you a week to give this back to me.* Again, if you choose not to do this, I will write the OM, tell him my story and file for divorce.


Again these words don't show firmness. You don't need to beg or say "please". She should be the one to beg.

And DON'T GIVE HER TIME TO THINK!!! she makes the decision right there, in that very moment, in front of you!!!


----------



## Crossmyheart

lovelygirl said:


> First off - Writing an email wouldn't be the best option. You would be seen as weak and afraid to confront her.
> You need to face her and talk to her firmly, and eye to eye.
> 
> Second off - the words such as those that I bolded should be OFF the vocabulary when you confront her face to face.
> 
> 
> 
> Again these words don't show firmness. You don't need to beg or say "please". She should be the one to beg.
> 
> And DON'T GIVE HER TIME TO THINK!!! she makes the decision right there, in that very moment, in front of you!!!


Thanks LGirl! I'll modify it. Is it embarassing (or stupid) to print this out and read it to her face to face. I don't think I could memorize all this. lol


----------



## Crossmyheart

Currently listening to:

Theory Of A Deadman - Not Meant To Be - YouTube


----------



## the guy

Dude your doing it again your giving her time lines and negotiating with her.

Remeber filing for divorce is completely different then finalizing the divorce. Have her served and then she can do the heavy lifting during the waitiing period and you can withdraw the filing...what is the waiting period in your state ..90 days?

I can already tell she has your number...lok how she threatened you when you were going to email OM...you folded like a...IDk a book.

My point is have your say with her now but the next day you have go see a lawyer.....I mean come on, hasn't she heard this all before? Aren't these just more word? At the very least do not negotiate and get it in your head that you need to make some calls and get a atty ASAP


----------



## Vanguard

OM is not a Christian. He's an abomination.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> Thanks LGirl! I'll modify it. Is it embarassing (or stupid) to print this out and read it to her face to face. I don't think I could memorize all this. lol


Dude your not stupid you deep in some emotional sh1t...thats why we are her. We've been there and we all know you cant see thru the forest right now.


----------



## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Dude your doing it again your giving her time lines and negotiating with her.
> 
> Remeber filing for divorce is completely different then finalizing the divorce. Have her served and then she can do the heavy lifting during the waitiing period and you can withdraw the filing...what is the waiting period in your state ..90 days?
> 
> I can already tell she has your number...lok how she threatened you when you were going to email OM...you folded like a...IDk a book.
> 
> *My point is have your say with her now *but the next day you have go see a lawyer.....I mean come hasnpt she heard this all before?


Meaning, don't mention anything? File first THEN have the discussion I posted?


----------



## the guy

Have this discussion if it makes you feel better, but maybe I'm wrong, but hasnt everything already been said? 

Go ahead and let her know you are done negogiating and restae your boundries and the consequences...she already knows what she is doing you don't have to prove anything to her other then you are moving on. I would even go down the this road but if you need to get managed one more time by your wife so she can continue to cake eat then go for it. 

I think she is going to eat you alive for the uptenth time IDk. But go ahead lay it all out there been thats it. 

Do you really see her turning around after another discussion?

If your not sure then do it for your self and see what happens one of two things are going to happen, she will tell you its all good and you will believe her or she will tell you to pound sand you will have your confirmation what your next step is.


----------



## lovelygirl

After reading it again , here's more suggestion: 



Crossmyheart said:


> *But also take note, that we all make mistakes. And I would very much like to see us heal this wound and fix our marriage to a healthier one.*


Leave this out. You don't need to justify her behavior by the fact that we all make mistakes. 
Don't use the underlined part that way. 



> *That is my hope. And don’t think of this as any kind of “power struggle”; this is a method to clear your conscience.
> *


Cross this out. Not the right moment/time to say it.



> WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM, REALLY?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU MEET IN PERSON?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT KIND OF MARRIAGE DID YOU TELL HIM WE HAD?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY WOULD YOU RISK OUR MARRIAGE OVER HIM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY DID YOU PROCEED TO TALK WITH HIM AFTER I REPEATEDLY EXPRESSED HOW CONCERNED I WAS?


These questions should be asked right there! If she tries to change subject repeat the question in a MORE firmly way so that she understand you won't let her get away easily without making things clear for you.



> *Otherwise, we’ll both be unhappy and live in constant stress.*


You don't need to mention this. It's like you're consoling her.

***
You need to be flawless,determined - act and think cold. 
Make sure to use short, imperative sentences/words. She should understand the severity of the situation and how serious you are.


other TAM members will have more to add.


----------



## Chaparral

Crossmyheart said:


> I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


Does this not tell you evrything you need to know?


----------



## the guy

I reread it again and to me it still sound like you are giving her an option.

You need to let her know that there are no more options. You need answers, and you need your boundries respected.

Stop going over old news, she needs to see a new Crossmyheart that is done negotiating for her. 

get it out of your head that divorce is the last option, but a action that you need to take.




Just prepare your self to have her call you on it.... she still sees the same old Crossmyheart so keep that in mind.


----------



## Chaparral

lovelygirl said:


> You can remind her of the fact that she mentioned divorce a few days earlier and that now this is an option for you too.
> Tell her that you can't rug sweep this affair anymore [because that's what's happening] and how she was so fast to protect the OM and throw away her family without having second thoughts.
> 
> Then see her reaction.
> Ideally, she should beg on her knees and promise to tell you EVERY SINGLE detail from the affair if she wants to make this marriage work and she MUST prove she has ended it.
> 
> 
> If she doesn't do this or does less and takes it easier by rug sweeping more then your D papers are ready to be served.
> 
> And don't be fooled by the make up sex. Don't be fooled by her Iloveyous and/or by her hugs.
> The talk should be only about the affair and not how much she says she loves you. Oh and the crocodile tears might be there too but if you know your wife very well you should make the difference when she's being honest and when not.
> 
> 
> Edit: I recommend you wait for other experienced members to give you more advice on how to confront her.


She loves him but she will divorce himn so fast he won't be able to shed a tear over someone she met randomly on facebook. Say what?

Looking more and more like physical affair. Unless of course she is just that mean normally.

When she said/says that tell her you will get a garbage bag and help her pack.

I would have sat down in front of her and sent the email. She bluffed you and you folded. This is about who is the leader in your family. Right noe OM is looking way more manly than you.

BTW, my email would have included a statement about how public this affair was going to become if he didn't get the hell out of my family. As a matter of fact I would email now. I was thinking I would send her a copy too but I would rather hear how long it took for him to get her the message.

* WHAT KIND OF PHONE DOES SHE HAVE?*


----------



## Entropy3000

Crossmyheart said:


> He just "happened to randomly" friend request her on Facebook. Then it went to email, then to text and then to phone call.


What married woman would befriend a man she has never met and does not know on FB? So if that is true then this is in itself unfaithful.

However, if she did know him then she is lying which is for sure unfaithful.

In these sitautions you do not ask questions, you state the behavior is unacceptable. She need to show you that she not only unfriended him but also blocked him on facebook. 

You guys nee to do His Needs Her Needs and do the boundary setting. Boundaries are defined, agreed upon and implemented. Amongst other things she has boundary issues.

If he just friended her on FB without knowing her he picked her out because of her FB pictures. What do they look like?


----------



## Chaparral

Modify you list as recommended print it out set her down and have her write out her answers. Any refusal just tell her and other man to get their lawyers.

Write it out because you cannot trust yourself to stay the course. No time to think about it, she will use that to wear you down/bluff you. 

Also if she refuse or answers wrongly email him immediately. Do you know what church this "Christian"goes to?


----------



## Chaparral

Entropy3000 said:


> What married woman would befriend a man she has never met and does not know on FB? So if that is true then this is in itself unfaithful.
> 
> However, if she did know him then she is lying which is for sure unfaithful.
> 
> In these sitautions you do not ask questions, you state the behavior is unacceptable. She need to show you that she not only unfriended him but also blocked him on facebook.
> 
> You guys nee to do His Needs Her Needs and do the boundary setting. Boundaries are defined, agreed upon and implemented. Amongst other things she has boundary issues.
> 
> If he just friended her on FB without knowing her he picked her out because of her FB pictures. What do they look like?


They may have friennds in common that suggests other friends. He is a politician. A good question is who, what kind, and how many friends he has on facebook.

Are you saying he shouldn't give her the questions?


----------



## TDSC60

You should only be concerned with why she did what she did if your intention is to stay married to her. If you have settled on divorce then don't bother asking her anything - you will only get lies.

The alternative is this.

Email OM and tell him that if he contacts your wife in any form or fashion you will take that as an attack on your family and your marriage and you will respond appropriately.

Then tell her what you have done. Ask her if she is going to divorce you as she threatened or not. Either way you have your answer to the most important question which is - does he mean more to her that you and your marriage?

If she is remorseful and apologizes for the pain she has caused you and says she wants to work on the marriage - that is the time to explore why she did what she did and establish boundaries so it do not happen again.

Good luck.


----------



## Chaparral

You said she can be a b++++, isit out of character for her to threaten divorce over something. Has she used this before to get her way?


----------



## happyman64

the guy said:


> Here is a senerio to think about;
> 
> [you] "I want a divorce so I contacted ( use OM name)}"
> [her] "You didn't"
> [you] " yes I did so when will you get the D papers to me"
> [her] "you SOB"
> [you] " really I just want a divorce so *I* can move on"
> [her] "OK fine"
> [you] " can you leave now, you might want to tell (use OM name) the good news in person and let him know I will be dropping your things off at his place soon"
> 
> 
> That would be great if you could use his address and ask her to confirm it, you won't want to send her things to the wrong boyfriend (implying you think she has more then one OM....).
> 
> 
> *Hell, you might want to email him and ask for his address so that you can make sure your wife's thing get to the right place.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> You left out the most important part???
> 
> Ask him does he have the extra room for the kids too because they are getting dropped off with her and all of their things!!!
> 
> That is how you handle Mr Good Christian Single Politician [email protected]!!!!!
> 
> But do not say anything to your wife when you do this.
> 
> Make sure the VAR is in place.
> 
> Watch her world explode.
> 
> You will get to the bottom of everything real fast.
> 
> I really hope he likes kids.


----------



## NextTimeAround

Crossmyheart said:


> I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


Then contact him. As one of my friends reminded me, my exH wanted the divorce...... so I will never have to wonder if getting the divorce was the right thing to do. If your wife is going to divorce you over that, then you're better off without her...... and you never have to wonder whether you were acting rash or not.....


----------



## Crossmyheart

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Gonna stay strong and push forward. I'll update when I can.


----------



## Crossmyheart

And just so everyone knows, I am in touch with a lawyer; even though I have no money.


----------



## Shaggy

You need the var in her car under the seat with velcro tape.

Then without any warning to her or discussion. Contact the OM and tell him to back off. Don't get into a discussion with him, do not make your case, do not ask him to do the right thing.

Tell him. He is crossing a boundary that you will not accept with your wife. Tell him to stop contact her or you will take what ever steps are appropriate to force an end to their relationship including causing any public embarrassment to him that you need to.


do not make any threats, just keep it short and simple.

edit to add: Then wait for her phone to light up, and for her to get mad. What you want is for her to go to the van to call him. That will let you hear what they are saying, and what she is willing to say to him to make it up to him.


----------



## Crossmyheart

Shaggy said:


> *You need the var in her car under the seat with velcro tape.*
> Then without any warning to her or discussion. Contact the OM and tell him to back off. Don't get into a discussion with him, do not make your case, do not ask him to do the right thing.
> 
> Tell him. He is crossing a boundary that you will not accept with your wife. Tell him to stop contact her or you will take what ever steps are appropriate to force an end to their relationship including causing any public embarrassment to him that you need to.
> 
> 
> do not make any threats, just keep it short and simple.


Working on it. I don't have any money, but I get paid next Friday and I'll pick one up then.


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## Crossmyheart

Shaggy said:


> You need the var in her car under the seat with velcro tape.
> 
> Then without any warning to her or discussion. Contact the OM and tell him to back off. Don't get into a discussion with him, do not make your case, do not ask him to do the right thing.
> 
> Tell him. He is crossing a boundary that you will not accept with your wife. * Tell him to stop contact her or you will take what ever steps are appropriate to force an end to their relationship including causing any public embarrassment to him that you need to.
> 
> 
> do not make any threats*, just keep it short and simple.
> 
> edit to add: Then wait for her phone to light up, and for her to get mad. What you want is for her to go to the van to call him. That will let you hear what they are saying, and what she is willing to say to him to make it up to him.


Isn't that a threat? Just sayin'...


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## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> Isn't that a threat? Just sayin'...


lol. To me that's a threat actually.

agree.


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## Crossmyheart

Just wish there was a way I could see all her text messages. Does anyone know if this is possible? No, we don't have a plan together. I actually don't even own a cell. I think she owns an iTouch phone and goes through T Mobile.


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## TCSRedhead

I'm still floored by the fact that she threatened you if you were to contact HIM. That alone shows where her loyalty lies. Is her phone password protected - why?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Crossmyheart

TCSRedhead said:


> I'm still floored by the fact that she threatened you if you were to contact HIM. That alone shows where her loyalty lies. Is her phone password protected - why?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It is, but I know the pattern to open it. Its never been a secret though.


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## Entropy3000

chapparal said:


> They may have friennds in common that suggests other friends. He is a politician. A good question is who, what kind, and how many friends he has on facebook.
> 
> Are you saying he shouldn't give her the questions?


I am just saying she is not so innocent in this. Nothing more. If he was a random guy he is just looking for a good looking woman to chat up for a possible get together.

Not sure if she has her marital status on her FB. Not that that would stop a guy who is looking to hookup.

From what has been posted it looks like she is looking to trade up. I mean what woman would be interested in a guy with a fireman's body and the status to be on the city counsel? Now one would hope that she would be loyal to the guy that has been helping to support her two children from a previous marriage.


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## Crossmyheart

My W just sent this to me... She might be trying to keep me off balance or its genuine. And though it may sound like I'm defending her, her past apologies have always been true. Just sayin'.


"I'm really sorry for everything lately. I do feel like a horrible person, but I wasn't and am not trying to hurt you. I guess I'm stubborn. Go figure.

I love you"


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## Entropy3000

Crossmyheart said:


> My W just sent this to me... She might be trying to keep me off balance or its genuine. And though it may sound like I'm defending her, her past apologies have always been true. Just sayin'.
> 
> 
> "I'm really sorry for everything lately. I do feel like a horrible person, but I wasn't and am not trying to hurt you. *I guess I'm stubborn.* Go figure.
> 
> I love you"


This is your answer. Her stubborness and her satisfaction is more important than her love for hre husband. This sounds incredibly juvenile. Entitled.

So I read that she is not going to give up the other man in this. That sorry you are hurt but I want what I want. I am more important. I do not see her saying that she was wrong and that she will never be in contact with him ever again. She is stubborn and she intends to win ... even if it hurts you so be aware of that.

Look, I am all for a true reconciliation. A false one is just abuse.


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## Shaggy

Crossmyheart said:


> Isn't that a threat? Just sayin'...


No. A threat is something you throw out there, but do not plan on doing. Such as I"m gonna XXXX you.

In this case he is describing what will be the consequence of actions he would take, not the actions. The public embarrassment is a consequence here.

If he had said "I will seek to publicly embarrass you, that is threat." 

this guy is a semi-public figure. that last thing he wants is negative publicity.


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## warlock07

Actually there is little chance that she will come clean if he asks her directly..He already did that multiple time. But the oft chance that there was nothing more to their relationship, then the repeated questions and threatening divorce over suspicions will only destroy the marriage.

Cross, first thing you do is find out the is extent of her affair on your own. This might cost you a little. VAR is the cheapest option. If she uses the home computer, get a keylogger. If she uses a smart phone find a way to retrieve deleted messages. 

I am thinking that your wife was interested in him for a short while(a mini crush) but he did not return back the affections or he backed away after a while. (her discussing relationship problems with him).

You might call him and calmly discuss what kind of friendship he is having with your wife. Don't threaten violence or anything and ask him to step back as this is causing problems in your marriage.. But you might want to do this after you find the nature of their relationship by your own methods.. There was a good post on how relationship discussions turn into emotional affair..let men try to find that..


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## warlock07

Crossmyheart said:


> I told her during our last heated talk that maybe I should email him. Her eyes burned and she said if I do that, "she would file for divorce so fast I wouldn't have time to shed a tear." Her words.


This is the most concerning part until now..Her reaction was over the top..


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## Crossmyheart

So, riddle me this one: last night my W showed interest in having sex with me! I was very excited. But when we got in bed together (3 hours later; kids finally fell asleep) she started LAUGHING and couldn't stop. She said sorry, that she loved me. I tried rubbing her back, but it ended up putting her to sleep. Another lonely night for me. Its been over 3 weeks since we've had sex. What I need to know, is why was she laughing? Thoughts, please?!?!?!


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## TDSC60

Crossmyheart said:


> Just wish there was a way I could see all her text messages. Does anyone know if this is possible? No, we don't have a plan together. *I actually don't even own a cell.* I think she owns an iTouch phone and goes through T Mobile.


So how is she sending you messages? Email?


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## Crossmyheart

TDSC60 said:


> So how is she sending you messages? Email?


Yup.


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## huanito

You need to be more confident about yourself and stand your ground. So what if he is making more money or is a city council. This should not make you insecure. I caught my wife in an EA and with a guy who still lives with his mom and I have my own house, cars and a career. There maybe many underlining reason why someone might cheat but nothing makes it acceptable and you should not be affraid to ask any question that pops in your mind and let her know anything that you don't find appropriate and if she simply doesnt care do anything you feel might remedy the situation without any approval even if it means making the EA public.


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## alte Dame

Crossmyheart said:


> So, riddle me this one: last night my W showed interest in having sex with me! I was very excited. But when we got in bed together (3 hours later; kids finally fell asleep) she started LAUGHING and couldn't stop. She said sorry, that she loved me. I tried rubbing her back, but it ended up putting her to sleep. Another lonely night for me. Its been over 3 weeks since we've had sex. What I need to know, is why was she laughing? Thoughts, please?!?!?!


From the female perspective the most benign reading of the laughter is that she saw you as a dog with a bone re the sex & that this was cute. This is the most benign reading, in my opinion, but could well be true. No matter what, she feels like she's in the power position, otherwise she couldn't have been laughing like that.


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## Crossmyheart

Anyone else have any input? Maybe my W is losing her mind too! lol


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## jfv

The fact that no sex took place tells me that this is not benign at all.


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## Crossmyheart

tdwal said:


> I know women can laugh and cry in the act of sex as it creates some overwhelming emotions but it doesn't sound like it got that far. I have seen both in the same act.


I know it makes me out to be a sap, but my W seemed like she really wanted me and then in just a few hours she changed and didn't seem interested anymore. She's still asleep right now. I tried to tell her earlier this morning. She said she was sorry and that she was over-tired. How should I act around her today? Sorry, I just need help.


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## Crossmyheart

tdwal said:


> I know women can laugh and cry in the act of sex as it creates some overwhelming emotions but it doesn't sound like it got that far. I have seen both in the same act.


Is it possible it could've been a fluke? Do you think she looked at me and saw the OM and it made her laugh? Or is that reaching?


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## alte Dame

Ask her directly why she was laughing.


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## Crossmyheart

alte Dame said:


> Ask her directly why she was laughing.


I did. She says she was over-tired, but she has a knack for giggling when she gets nervous.


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## Crossmyheart

I almost want to go up to our room and just "take" her to see if she'd be receptive. But again she's asleep and the kids are waking up.


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## jim123

Crossmyheart said:


> Is it possible it could've been a fluke? Do you think she looked at me and saw the OM and it made her laugh? Or is that reaching?


Beause she is doing all of this to you and you are still doing what you are doing. Think of someone robbing your house and you are helping them load the truck.

You can never repsect someone who does not respect themself. You can never love someone who does not love themself.


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## the guy

Next time leave the duct tape on and you won't have this problem.LOL

Even though I think a little man handling was in order, that always seem to wipe a smile off a chicks face... but again I'm wired different then most and my thinking is more directed to the control Mrs the-guy likes. That plus its hard to laugh when you have a p......never mind. LOL


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## the guy

Crossmyheart said:


> I almost want to go up to our room and just "take" her to see if she'd be receptive. But again she's asleep and the kids are waking up.



Throw a ball as far as you can into the leeves and tell the kid they can't come in until they find the ball...:rofl::rofl:


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## Crossmyheart

I'm pathetic.


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## happyman64

You are not pathetic.

You have issues with your wife.

Get the kids tired out and do not leave any room for your wife to make any excuses.

Be calm, cool and assertive with her.


Let us know how you make out.


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## TCSRedhead

I have laughed or giggled but only when something funny happened, like falling off the bed during the act. 

You're not pathetic but you are being played for a fool.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Crossmyheart

I'm not strong enough to intervene. I thought I was, but I was wrong. I can't do this anymore. Its the story of my life of always being left for an upgrade.


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## alte Dame

I have actually laughed very inappropriately out of embarrassment. The difference is that my H very forcefully and immediately demanded to know why I was laughing. I told him right away that I was embarrassed and not laughing at him - everything past & OK. The difference is that you're not being forceful or self-assured, I think.


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## Crossmyheart

tdwal said:


> Quit beating yourself up your just embarrassed by her actions, you aren't less of a man than anyone else. Just be assertive. I got to say that the first time my wife laughed at me I felt the same way you did, it's nervous giggles more than likely.


I hope you're right, but the overall recent events have taken its toll on me. All I can do is let her win. I'm used to losing anyway. Time for shutdown.


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## Crossmyheart

I love her too much not to make her angry, but not enough to fight her. Not even sure if that makes sense. But like I said, I give up. I'll just lay down. I can't control other people's love for each other. Maybe its better this way.


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## Crossmyheart

And it'll be easier since my W doesn't care.


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## Crossmyheart

Going to sign off for awhile. I'll leave with this quote. Hopefully, I'll be back with better news.

"I will lay down my heart. I will let you go. Thats whats best for us all." - Blue October


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## Hope Springs Eternal

Crossmyheart said:


> Going to sign off for awhile. I'll leave with this quote. Hopefully, I'll be back with better news.
> 
> "I will lay down my heart. I will let you go. Thats whats best for us all." - Blue October


Good luck.


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## aug

Time to things for yourself. For example, go to the gym and build up your muscle mass. Do a makeover of your clothes. Find outside interest. Take up a martial art. Start talking to other women.

So many things you can do to regain your confidence and self-respect. Dont hesitate. Take one small step at a time.


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## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> Anyone else have any input? Maybe my W is losing her mind too! lol


No, your wife is not losing her mind. You are the one who lost his mind.
Wifey thought how funny it was that you can fall in the trap of make up sex.


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## lovelygirl

Crossmyheart said:


> I did. She says she was over-tired, but she has a knack for giggling when she gets nervous.


I've never heard of anyone who laughs when they are tired.
Your wife is a weirdo but still I think of you as a puppy who was happy to have sex with wifey.


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## Chaparral

iPhone Backup Extractor for Windows and Mac

Amazon.com: Married Man Sex Life


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## Chaparral

Read the MMSL book. Laying down for you wife to run over you is why she does it. Standing up for yourself is the only answer. Unless you just want to be alone.


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## walkonmars

She laughed bc you looked like a starved puppy waiting for a crumb. She decided she just wasn't in the mood for a pity fuc.


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## OldWolf57

Nice example you setting for the kids dude.


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## Plan 9 from OS

I read thru this thread. All I can say is CMH could have brought all of this to a head weeks ago. The longer this drags out, the more empowered your wife will become and the more emasculated you will feel. Here is what I would do in your shoes. I have no experience with infidelity, but I've been married for 16 years so I do have marital experience:

1) Revisit the idea of talking to this OM personally and let your wife know your intentions. Do this intentionally to see her reaction.

2) If she reacts as I think she would - negatively and threaten divorce again - tell her to go for it. Tell her you are sick and tired of playing these games and being treated like garbage. If she feels that her relationship with this OM is more important then she should pursue it. But advise her that there will be consequences

3) Expose this inappropriate relationship to everyone you know. It's a small town, so even the implication of an elected official being inappropriate with another man's wife should be painful to him. Bring him down and ruin his career. Take an ad out in the local newspaper if you have to. Let your wife's family know what's going on.

4) Now you have to wait and see how your wife reacts to this. Depending on how she reacts will dictate how your next steps will go.


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## Crossmyheart

It's been a long, grueling roller coaster ride. But this whole experience has helped me see things a little more clearly. I've come to the conclusion that although I love my wife; I don't love her enough to fall apart and remain unhappy. This whole marriage is unhealthy and I can't stay in it any longer. I plan on filing for divorce; and it's not a bluff.


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## walkonmars

Did you just give up and accept that she was unfaithful, or did you discover something else? 

Either way, you are probably doing the right thing. You've been jerked around enough. Stand tall. Count your blessings (she's not one - your kids are) and move toward a new day.


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## walkonmars

Oh, one more thing. Expose him to his work - he is in a position of trust. He meets people when they're vulnerable. He had no qualms in just reaching across cyberspace and plucking your wife out of the blue as if he was entitled. What do you suppose he does when he meets good-looking vulnerable women in his job. 

Expose your wife as well. Let it be known that you tried very hard, worked to support her, cared for the kids and struggled with trying to keep your family together. But it was she that resisted and brought an end to the kids two-parent family.


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## weightlifter

Did you find anything?


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## Crossmyheart

I dropped the 'D' word on her last night. I didn't say I wanted one, but I said maybe we should consider it for the good of us and the kids. She got pissed off and ran upstairs and went to bed. I think I'll let tonight pass with no incident and then talk to her about more tomorrow evening. At least I FINALLY put it out there. I guess Step 1 is over...


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## TBT

You don't say much about what's happened in the last 3 months.


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## Acabado

TBT said:


> You don't say much about what's happened in the last 3 months.


I asume more of the same.



> *Crossmyheart*
> I dropped the 'D' word on her last night. I didn't say I wanted one, but I said maybe we should consider it for the good of us and the kids. She got pissed off and ran upstairs and went to bed. I think I'll let tonight pass with no incident and then talk to her about more tomorrow evening. At least I FINALLY put it out there. I guess Step 1 is over...


Has you ever latked to a lawyer? Any idea of the potential outcomes, scenarios?


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## Chaparral

Crossmyheart said:


> I dropped the 'D' word on her last night. I didn't say I wanted one, but I said maybe we should consider it for the good of us and the kids. She got pissed off and ran upstairs and went to bed. I think I'll let tonight pass with no incident and then talk to her about more tomorrow evening. At least I FINALLY put it out there. I guess Step 1 is over...


Let me guess. You did not read MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER.

Just skimmed back through hour thread and can't see where you folloeed the advice from people who have been in your shoes.

You have the responsbility to lead your family and your big call is to bail

Wishing luck to your kids, they are going to need all they can get.


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## Crossmyheart

So, I suddenly had a moment of realization. Not that I'm a doctor or a shrink, but I've been doing some deep research the past 3 days and noticed that my wife is showing a lot of signs regarding Bipolar Disorder. The funny thing is, she has always had these symptoms, but (maybe because of love) I never really took the time to look into it further. I think I might hold off on the D talks and see if she'll seek treatment. I'll be patient for awhile, but if she keeps refusing, then I'll have to move on. Now, I'm tasked with the problem of trying to convince her to see a doctor regarding this "possible" condition. Good luck to me on that, huh?


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## Jasel

Crossmyheart said:


> So, I suddenly had a moment of realization. Not that I'm a doctor or a shrink, but I've been doing some deep research the past 3 days and noticed that my wife is showing a lot of signs regarding Bipolar Disorder. The funny thing is, she has always had these symptoms, but (maybe because of love) I never really took the time to look into it further. I think I might hold off on the D talks and see if she'll seek treatment. I'll be patient for awhile, but if she keeps refusing, then I'll have to move on. Now, I'm tasked with the problem of trying to convince her to see a doctor regarding this "possible" condition. Good luck to me on that, huh?


My Dad has bipolar disorder. Take my advice and divorce.


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## the guy

Maybe it should be stated that her lack of responsiblity for her own mental health is why D is on the table?

"Go see a shrink or lose me for ever"


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## Crossmyheart

the guy said:


> Maybe it should be stated that her lack of responsiblity for her own mental health is why D is on the table?
> 
> "Go see a shrink or lose me for ever"


That's the idea, but I have to put it more delicately for now. If nothing improves, then thats the FINAL approach I'll have to take.


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