# Did your WS become more unattractive to you after their affair?



## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

I have read where BSs even in R have begun to notice their WSs imperfections either physically or with their personality. Once the rose colored glasses were torn off they they saw things that once did not bother them but now they seem to notice these things more often. Did this happen to you? What, if anything, did you do about it?


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Hi TS,

Love is blind. Lot of truth to that, I think when I was married the physical changes I noticed intellectually, but not emotionally. As such after the love died, all that was left was th intellectual and my opinion changed radically. Nursejackie has started a new thread "where you surprised" that dovetails with your thread. 

I had mentioned on other threads I had a key logger in place very early on. I did run a background check on him using a excellent on line company (buyer beware) As I read how she described him i decided tp look him up. I foind his profile on match (head shake, fog alert, it was still marked looking, while he was telling her its true love, when a friend tried to tell her she insisted he just forgot to take it down.) and was stunned as in HUH ? It was not just my thoughts of the physical that changed though. Your right that how I viewed many of her habits changed. It is funny I don't morn the loss of my marriage but the sting of her adultery remains. 

Ps she forgot to take her's down too. Ahhh the joy of the fog.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I think this is very true.

But I also think its a phenomena that goes beyond just infidelity in M.

IMO, people tend to overlook foibles and flaws in people that they are friends with and like....until that person injures or wrongs them in some way.

For example, I have a friend who had one of his childhood friends who would sometimes come and hangout, have a beer, play pool, etc, with our social group.

I never liked the guy....he was a belligerent a**hole who often insulted or rudely crossed boundaries with other people...strangers or even some of us......he even caused a few scenes with couples by blatantly flirting with and hitting on the women in front of their H/bf's.

Some of our friends, especially couples, began to refuse to come out and socialize if he was going to be there, or quickly made excuses and left if he showed up.

A real a**hat jerk.

But my friend never saw it, or more accurately he always made excuses for him and defended him.

UNTIL the guy was over at my friend's house one night and drunkenly hit on and even groped his own wife. 

Suddenly, its like the scales fell off his eyes and he finally saw the creep the way the rest of our friends saw him.

My point is, many people always give a pass or the benefit of the doubt towards people they like and care about....up until the point when their sh*tty behavior finally impacts them.....and at that point, its like they can finally see that person for who they really are.

And I've seen the same phenomena with between parents and their own kids....they are always the last to see what their kids are truly like.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Definitely. Of course I am just a jerk.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Let's just say that I'd seriously have to give thoughts to becoming celibate if either of my ex-wives was the only thing that was left available on this earth for me "to tap!"

I wouldn't touch either one of those skanks with a borrowed penis!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

TAM needs a "like" button.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I had a bad marriage to begin with so I overlooked A LOT of things. Basically ignored or rugswept because of full time work, small kids, dad-to-day life. It was easier to overlook a lot. 

After DDay, I could not stand one thing about my husband. He became incredibly unattractive to me. His clothes were ugly, his teeth looked bad, everything he watched on TV annoyed me. 

To this day, I am turned off by any man who talks like, looks like, dresses like, basically anything like my ex husband or the things he was interested in. 

HUGE turn-off. 

My switch was immediate. NO hysterical bonding at all. My husband was not a good husband in so many ways. Just a big mistake to marry at all. 20+ years..... POOF! Waste of time.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> I think this is very true.
> 
> But I also think its a phenomena that goes beyond just infidelity in M.
> 
> ...


Great post - when we think someone is on "our team" we tend to tolerate a lot more - when reading about how BSs now started to see all their WSs imperfections I wondered if that is another issue to be worked out in R - regaining your attraction for your WS.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *Let's just say that I'd seriously have to give thoughts to becoming celibate if either of my ex-wives was the only thing that was left available on this earth for me "to tap!"
> 
> I wouldn't touch either one of those skanks with a borrowed penis!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:rofl: Tell us how you really feel..no don't hold back...


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> I think this is very true.
> 
> But I also think its a phenomena that goes beyond just infidelity in M.
> 
> ...


Most people excuse bad behaviour until it happens to THEM. How many of us have former friends who continued to be friends with our cheating ex after divorce? The cheater didn't betray THEM, so it's like it doesn't matter at all! I just shake my head and wonder why anyone would want to be friends with someone who would do that.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Rugs said:


> I had a bad marriage to begin with so I overlooked A LOT of things. Basically ignored or rugswept because of full time work, small kids, dad-to-day life. It was easier to overlook a lot.
> 
> After DDay, I could not stand one thing about my husband. He became incredibly unattractive to me. His clothes were ugly, his teeth looked bad, everything he watched on TV annoyed me.
> 
> ...


Exactly - some people have that switch and when it goes off it really goes off....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Most people excuse bad behaviour until it happens to THEM. How many of us have former friends who continued to be friends with our cheating ex after divorce? The cheater didn't betray THEM, so it's like it doesn't matter at all! I just shake my head and wonder why anyone would want to be friends with someone who would do that.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: 
@Hopeful Cynic Everyone is so afraid of being called the "j" word as in _judgmental _- perhaps we need a bit more of that today - not less


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Let's just say that I'd seriously have to give thoughts to becoming celibate if either of my ex-wives was the only thing that was left available on this earth for me "to tap!"
> 
> I wouldn't touch either one of those skanks with a borrowed penis!*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Lol


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## oneMOreguy (Aug 22, 2012)

Stang197 said:


> TAM needs a "like" button.


...it does, just not on the mobile version.......


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nope. She was still the same woman.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Nope. She was still the same woman.


 @MattMatt so after your wife's affair - nothing changed in terms of how you viewed her? nothing?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @MattMatt so after your wife's affair - nothing changed in terms of how you viewed her? nothing?


Not a thing, regarding her physical looks.

Was that a normal reaction, or not? :scratchhead:

You have set me thinking, now. 

There were significant trust issues, however.

And a psychological ED problem for a month or so.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Not a thing, regarding her physical looks.
> 
> Was that a normal reaction, or not? :scratchhead:
> 
> ...


I have no idea what is normal anymore but I have read some BSs saying their spouses look older, more wrinkled or their personality is now more annoying to them. They seem to have a heightened sense of their WSs imperfections which they did not pre-affair.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I have no idea what is normal anymore but I have read some BSs saying their spouses look older, more wrinkled or their personality is now more annoying to them. They seem to have a heightened sense of their WSs imperfections which they did not pre-affair.


My wife looked like she was 18 until she was 40!!:rofl:


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> My wife looked like she was 18 until she was 40!!:rofl:


how is your marriage now?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> how is your marriage now?


As well as can be expected, when one of the spouses is an aspie!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> As well as can be expected, when one of the spouses is an aspie!


I know 2 ppeople who are married to aspies - it is challenging at times...


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## Thinkitthrough (Sep 5, 2012)

I'm the ASPIE, 18 months and I just starting to get the tingle back. Still find it hard to think that the woman I trusted and loved could do this. I feel like I am trying to R without the emotional content to get all the way back.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

Attraction can be a very strange thing. I've known people that I've thought very unattractive until I've got to know them better. It's as if the attraction light-bulb is suddenly turned on once I've seen their true character. They PHYSICALLY become different to me. 

It works both ways.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I know 2 ppeople who are married to aspies - it is challenging at times...


Oh, yeah! :rofl:


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

My perception of your title question is that of appearance. I voted no because even though my wife cheated, physically she is still very attractive. In my case it was what I found in her traits that became less appealing. Her character, her integrity, her honesty, her self esteem. This is what I struggled with as I thought I knew her, her traits before cheating, she wasn't as infallible as she showed. 

I find her appearance very attractive, an now that she is doing IC and fixing these traits to what they should be, yes she is attractive to me. She still makes heads turn which is a compliment to her appearance. She is changing and becoming a better her, that's all I can ask for. But never again will I ever see her through those rose colored glasses. I see she is fallible now, she has weaknesses, and she has strengths. No longer will she reside on a pedestal, no longer do I think of her reactions. She is she and I am myself, this is the way for the rest of the marriage. I'm there for her don't get me wrong, I love her and she loves me, but she is no longer without flaws to me. Gone forever is the innocence, the innocence of our marriage, the innocence of me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Oh, yeah! :rofl:


 @MattMatt any suggestions on books or periodicals they can read to help?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> My perception of your title question is that of appearance. I voted no because even though my wife cheated, physically she is still very attractive. In my case it was what I found in her traits that became less appealing. Her character, her integrity, her honesty, her self esteem. This is what I struggled with as I thought I knew her, her traits before cheating, she wasn't as infallible as she showed.
> 
> I find her appearance very attractive, an now that she is doing IC and fixing these traits to what they should be, yes she is attractive to me. She still makes heads turn which is a compliment to her appearance. She is changing and becoming a better her, that's all I can ask for. But never again will I ever see her through those rose colored glasses. I see she is fallible now, she has weaknesses, and she has strengths. *No longer will she reside on a pedestal, no longer do I think of her reactions. She is she and I am myself, this is the way for the rest of the marriage. I'm there for her don't get me wrong, I love her and she loves me, but she is no longer without flaws to me. Gone forever is the innocence, the innocence of our marriage, the innocence of me.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Given the results of the poll (I know it is not scientific) but when infidelity rips the rose colored glasses off - that is a good thing. Innocent and idealized love for your spouse is a dangerous thing. It dulls your senses to the threats outside of your marriage and also instills in you a sense of blind trust n another human being that is never healthy. I wonder how the WS views a BS that stays? Do they view them as weak or do they idealize them now as being saintly? I'm talking about ones who are remorseful not cake eating or no convenience vile creatures.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

BrokenLady said:


> Attraction can be a very strange thing. I've known people that I've thought very unattractive until I've got to know them better.* It's as if the attraction light-bulb is suddenly turned on once I've seen their true character.* They PHYSICALLY become different to me.
> 
> It works both ways.


Good character can be sexy on an average looking person just like an awful personality on a good looking person is a turn off and makes them uglier.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Yup 

I wonder what i ever saw in him . Honestly .


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @MattMatt any suggestions on books or periodicals they can read to help?


Not off hand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Yup
> 
> I wonder what i ever saw in him . Honestly .


 @tripad Can you explain the process? Was it a moment of clarity or was it gradual?


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @tripad Can you explain the process? Was it a moment of clarity or was it gradual?


Just to clarify . My ex cheated financially . Not with another woman as far as I know . Didnt bother to find out anymore . i just wanted it to end . check full story in my other post.

I would say it is a gradual process . Over the years , he doesnt support the family much and I lost some respect .

Then trying to stay in the marriage first for myself and later for the children . Trying to love and forget . Trying to move on with life and be happy with my kids . I really did do it . But I realise he doesnt like it . 

The he drop another big debt on my lap and begged me to help , on his knees . I helped him. Lost more hope and lost all respect .

Still trying for the sake of my kids . I must say during this time , i didnt notice any physical ugliness yet . We are both relatively good looking . Also , no inner ugliness showed yet . It is just plainly looking at a man and yet thinking I cant rely on him , cant depend on him , cant grow old with him , he is useless , he is not a man .

Yet I hide the feelings . Really just wanted to keep the family . He was good for a while . 

But he got into trouble again ( I dont how or over what ) and turned on me , telling me he wanted his leeching parents and sisters over me and boys and will divorce me if I dont play it his way , that is i pay for this household and he will use his money for his parents and sisters ! And that I pay the debts and shut the fuvk up .

Long story short . He hit me and later infront of kids and according to him , so that i would back off the arguments and agree .

I quarreled and fought and cried and asked him to think for the kids . No he said he chose them over us .

It was around this time , I looked at him and didnt recognised him . I saw an ugly face with an even uglier heart .

I proceeded with divorce . Then he asked "are you seriously divorcing me over my parents and sisters " . 

During the times that we meet in divorce proceedings , I see a man who is average looking with sneaky mannerisms , darting eyes who cant look me in my face . I would never have like a man like that . But he wasnt like that when I knew him .

I see an ugly person with an even uglier personality , a liar , a cheat .

During the divorce , he lied and lied and tried to cheat me of my share of assets and child support . I progressed to see a complete vile and evil man with no heart . I see a man who I wont even be a friend with . I started to feel pity for the next woman who would know him . I see the ugliest side of him , which he masked all these years .

so it is gradual with respect to how the level of ugliness grow .

But the moment of realisation is split second and during the split second , I switched from looking at a man I used to love and find handsome to a stranger , ugly outside and inside .


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Given the results of the poll (I know it is not scientific) but when infidelity rips the rose colored glasses off - that is a good thing. Innocent and idealized love for your spouse is a dangerous thing. It dulls your senses to the threats outside of your marriage and also instills in you a sense of blind trust n another human being that is never healthy. I wonder how the WS views a BS that stays? Do they view them as weak or do they idealize them now as being saintly? I'm talking about ones who are remorseful not cake eating or no convenience vile creatures.




I asked my wife since I offered her reconciliation, do you see me as a doormat? My wife does not see me as a doormat, instead her answer was the following. "I see you as a compassionate man, unbelievable strength to carry myself and my poor choices. Few men in the world could do what you are doing now. You have such a compassionate and caring heart, and I will regret my choice each day of my life. I am so sorry I failed as your wife, but if given the chance I will everything you desired in a wife". 

I admit I felt better hearing this but I needed to see this as an action, my wife has shown me on multiple occasions that she is very appreciative of the gift of reconciliation. I have seen the above in action also. So that makes it easier when the WS is truly remorseful. However you will still struggle.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

I'm new here but have been struggling with various issues with my husband for about 7 years. It's very strange, the timing, but in the last week or so I have been accepting that either 1) the guy I fell in love with doesn't exist anymore, thanks to depression or the health issues he's had, including poor circulation and episodes that appear as dementia or Alzheimers, or 2) he never existed and was a conman and as he ages loses the ability to keep up the facade. I have been using this period in which we've been reconciling and having difficult but important and honest and candid conversations to decide. My mother died last week and I was due to leave for her funeral on Thursday when my h returned from being out of town to join me. He was wonderful, fabulous, throughout the visitation on Thursday night, the funeral on Friday morning, the lunch across the street at the church, and the trip back to the grave to see that the burial had been completed and beautiful flowers were placed on it for the time being. And then, that evening, his former affair partner texted, and he was consumed first with fighting off the urge to have contact with her, told her to stop texting, only to succumb. The next morning, as we had coffee on my brother's porch, getting ready to shower and pack, all of a sudden, he is no longer attractive to me at all. He's tall, slender, and beautiful, still fairly healthy but no longer able to be as active, given his recent stents in his artery and recovering from surgery, but it's not the health issue and the fact that he's slowing down that caused the lack of attraction. My vows cover that; I promised to be there in sickness and in health. While I get that his former fling is crazy and controlling and drunk texts, sitting on the porch Friday night in the dark after my mother was buried, saying, I'm sorry, I'm weak, I'm not strong, I can't resist, I have to go call her, something broke. I said "fine, but we're tabling any further discussion of any of this until we get home. I just buried my mother." Somehow losing my mother makes the importance and significance of reconciling my marriage really a minor distraction that I'm prepared to abandon. I never wanted to abandon him. But I'm not sure I ever really knew him anyway.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

He doesn't even love you enough not to hurt you with his affair when your mum died .

He's an asxhole .

Sounds like my ex .


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Just to clarify . My ex cheated financially . Not with another woman as far as I know . Didnt bother to find out anymore . i just wanted it to end . check full story in my other post.
> 
> I would say it is a gradual process . Over the years , he doesnt support the family much and I lost some respect .
> 
> ...


So in this case it was repeated betrayals which eroded his attractiveness to you. Hitting is also a betrayal like cheating meaning it is a most vile disgusting way to betray a spouse. I have no trouble seeing how your attraction for him has been eroded and disappeared. Thanks for explaining it so well.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> I'm new here but have been struggling with various issues with my husband for about 7 years. *It's very strange, the timing, but in the last week or so I have been accepting that either 1) the guy I fell in love with doesn't exist anymore, thanks to depression or the health issues he's had, including poor circulation and episodes that appear as dementia or Alzheimers, or 2) he never existed and was a conman and as he ages loses the ability to keep up the facade. * I have been using this period in which we've been reconciling and having difficult but important and honest and candid conversations to decide. My mother died last week and I was due to leave for her funeral on Thursday when my h returned from being out of town to join me. He was wonderful, fabulous, throughout the visitation on Thursday night, the funeral on Friday morning, the lunch across the street at the church, and the trip back to the grave to see that the burial had been completed and beautiful flowers were placed on it for the time being. And then, that evening, his former affair partner texted, and he was consumed first with fighting off the urge to have contact with her, told her to stop texting, only to succumb. The next morning, as we had coffee on my brother's porch, getting ready to shower and pack, all of a sudden, he is no longer attractive to me at all. He's tall, slender, and beautiful, still fairly healthy but no longer able to be as active, given his recent stents in his artery and recovering from surgery, but it's not the health issue and the fact that he's slowing down that caused the lack of attraction. My vows cover that; I promised to be there in sickness and in health. While I get that his former fling is crazy and controlling and drunk texts, sitting on the porch Friday night in the dark after my mother was buried, saying, I'm sorry, I'm weak, I'm not strong, I can't resist, I have to go call her, something broke. I said "fine, but we're tabling any further discussion of any of this until we get home. I just buried my mother." Somehow losing my mother makes the importance and significance of reconciling my marriage really a minor distraction that I'm prepared to abandon. I never wanted to abandon him. But I'm not sure I ever really knew him anyway.


Wow....yeah "I'm weak" "I can't resist" is an awful response. The affair and his subsequent reaction has torn off your veil of innocence and you can't look at him the same way. Very understandable.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> I asked my wife since I offered her reconciliation, do you see me as a doormat? My wife does not see me as a doormat, instead her answer was the following. "I see you as a compassionate man, unbelievable strength to carry myself and my poor choices. Few men in the world could do what you are doing now. You have such a compassionate and caring heart, and I will regret my choice each day of my life. I am so sorry I failed as your wife, but if given the chance I will everything you desired in a wife".
> 
> I admit I felt better hearing this but I needed to see this as an action, my wife has shown me on multiple occasions that she is very appreciative of the gift of reconciliation. I have seen the above in action also. So that makes it easier when the WS is truly remorseful. However you will still struggle.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has shown promise so far..I know R is a process and I wish you luck on your journey do.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks, Truthseeker1. The former OW never forgave him for breaking off the affair, and he is so susceptible to guilt and manipulation; he has struggled with a sense of obligation to keep all the promises he made between the sheets. H's mother emailed me to express her condolences, and probably emailed h too. OW hacks his email on occasion so I suspect she knew where he was and what he was doing. Fun times. Reading ReGroup's thread was very interesting, because I've always felt my husband was a rescuer, and then a victim. Victim is DEFINITELY not attractive, and he's not one. He did this all on his own. I wavered about having him attend the funderal, didn't want him to come to the funeral because he is not handling mortality well, but he DID love my mother and she him. Seeing him through the lens of how he sees himself is what is changing the picture for me and seeing him increasingly as less attractive, not only physically (which he can't help as he ages and deals with health issues) but morally (THAT he can help, and his guilt and bad choices have just contributed to his aging), which is ironic, because he sought out the affair to feel young again. I'd ask him how that's working for him, but he's obviously not ready to accept his own responsibility. But I'm glad I attempted reconciliation with him; it answered some of my questions, relieved me of some of my misplaced guilt, and left me as I wanted this to end, with no regrets.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Thanks, Truthseeker1. The former OW never forgave him for breaking off the affair, and he is so susceptible to guilt and manipulation; he has struggled with a sense of obligation to keep all the promises he made between the sheets. H's mother emailed me to express her condolences, and probably emailed h too. OW hacks his email on occasion so I suspect she knew where he was and what he was doing. Fun times. Reading ReGroup's thread was very interesting, because I've always felt my husband was a rescuer, and then a victim. Victim is DEFINITELY not attractive, and he's not one. He did this all on his own. I wavered about having him attend the funderal, didn't want him to come to the funeral because he is not handling mortality well, but he DID love my mother and she him. Seeing him through the lens of how he sees himself is what is changing the picture for me and seeing him increasingly as less attractive, not only physically (which he can't help as he ages and deals with health issues) but morally (THAT he can help, and his guilt and bad choices have just contributed to his aging), which is ironic, because he sought out the affair to feel young again. I'd ask him how that's working for him, but he's obviously not ready to accept his own responsibility. But I'm glad I attempted reconciliation with him; it answered some of my questions, relieved me of some of my misplaced guilt, and left me as I wanted this to end, with no regrets.


If he wants to feel young again why not eat right, exercise and get some [email protected]#$%^& mental stimulation. Screwing someone who is younger than you is not the [email protected]#$%^& fountain of youth. SMH.

There is also somethint very unattractive about a person who hangs on to youth - not being vibrant - but teeny bopper youth that diminishes them. So sorry you had to be married to that person.

If any "good" comes out of infidelity is the BS realizes that idealized love and blind trust are time bombs that can go off at any time. Only naive teenagers can afford to love like that - not functioning adults.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Thanks. Yes, he's a Peter Pan. Vibrant, defying age gracefully and appropriately? Definitely not. One more reason he's no longer attractive.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Thanks. Yes, he's a Peter Pan. Vibrant, defying age gracefully and appropriately? Definitely not. One more reason he's no longer attractive.


:scratchhead: so he's THAT guy....oh boy he is in for a hard fall...


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

If you are loyal and in love and work at being in love along with planning the future you don't focus on problems or issues. You love the person as they are.

As you get away, look at things intellectually, go on dates, hear more stories and think harder about your previous life the warts show up. 

It may not change your love but you will see a new person that didn't exist before... but actually they really did all along.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Yes, and the former fling sounds like a twelve-year-old on the phone (like the naive teenager you mentioned - she was perfect foil for his Peter Pan syndrome); she's the same adolescent age as the day her father abandoned the family. She glommed on to my h because she has daddy issues, and their fights were over his desire to be anything but (funny how that works).  She's his feminine mirror image. She thought the size of his truck and the size of his penis said something about the size of his military retirement check, and how she would no longer have to work for a living (they both spent MANY hours playing), and she figured she could grab ahold of both to her advantage. 

Sorry, since I'm new here, I hope these comments aren't potentially hijacking the thread. But no, Peter Pan isn't pretty, and the funny thing, except to his new friend. And then it wasn't.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Yes, and the former fling sounds like a twelve-year-old on the phone (like the naive teenager you mentioned - she was perfect foil for his Peter Pan syndrome); she's the same adolescent age as the day her father abandoned the family. She glommed on to my h because she has daddy issues, and their fights were over his desire to be anything but (funny how that works).  She's his feminine mirror image. She thought the size of his truck and the size of his penis said something about the size of his military retirement check, and how she would no longer have to work for a living (they both spent MANY hours playing), and she figured she could grab ahold of both to her advantage.
> 
> Sorry, since I'm new here, I hope these comments aren't potentially hijacking the thread. But no, Peter Pan isn't pretty, and the funny thing, except to his new friend. And then it wasn't.


 @TeddieG No t/j at all..illuminating actually....what I'm getting from you is with each incident from your H and his POSOW - more and more of the rose colored glasses fell away and then finally they fell off completely and were smahed into bits. Is this the correct assessment?

Part of the reason I started this thread is we hear how WS's love but are not in low with the BS, have to come out of the fog, etc but we don't explore the other side - what happens when the BS falls out of love, how can the WS make THEMSELVES more attractive to the BS they want to R with. Does the BS experience the "reverse fog" - whereas the WS snaps out of their fantasy world and realizes tey love the BS but the BS snaps out of their idealized love state and realizes they don't or can't love the WS anymore.

So please keep posting!!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> *If you are loyal and in love and work at being in love along with planning the future you don't focus on problems or issues. You love the person as they are.*
> 
> As you get away, look at things intellectually, go on dates, hear more stories and think harder about your previous life the warts show up.
> 
> It may not change your love but you will see a new person that didn't exist before... but actually they really did all along.


When your spouse is viewed as "on your team" you tend to overlook much more than when they are a disloyal, cheating, vile creature. Human nature I guess.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

"Part of the reason I started this thread is we hear how WS's love but are not in low with the BS, have to come out of the fog, etc but we don't explore the other side - what happens when the BS falls out of love, how can the WS make THEMSELVES more attractive to the BS they want to R with. Does the BS experience the "reverse fog" - whereas the WS snaps out of their fantasy world and realizes tey love the BS but the BS snaps out of their idealized love state and realizes they don't or can't love the WS anymore."



Thank you truthseeker1. The reality is, I guess, it has taken me 7 years to scrub the rose-colored hue off my specs. My first response when h confessed to being unfaithful and saying "I love you but I'm not in love with you" (actually it happened in reverse order) was that he was in a mental and physical crisis. I had a really important job interview after leaving a crap job three months before, and the night before the interview he came home to say "I love you but I'm not in love with you." THE NIGHT BEFORE!! I got NO sleep, but made the job interview and got the job. That was June 15, 2008, and the interview was June 16 at 9 am, a little over a week after his birthday, when I'd taken him to one of our favorite restaurants. He sat across the table from me with a frightened and lost look, as if he didn't recognize me or his surroundings. He'd done that once or twice in our living room too. But he would often go to the lake after work, to fish, or hang out, and then one night he came in at 2 am smelling like fresh deodorant and a shower. On July 4, he called me from a convenience store to confess to being unfaithful. 

But the reason I thought his issue was mental and physical was because he had kidney stones, and a doctor had put a stent in his private part to keep the big stone from starting down and sticking; the doctor was horribly inept when putting in the stent, and even more so when taking the stent out after surgery, using some device to run a cord of some sort up to grab the stent and then literally yanking it out. My h was never the same; I wanted to sue for malpractice. But Peter Pan decided that the subsequent ED wasn't physiological from an inept doctor. He said, if I really loved you, I wouldn't have ED, and defended the doctor. Enter the affair. 

As you point out in response to LBHMidwest, I thought h and I were on the same team. My h is bi polar, manic sometimes, normal sometimes, depressed MOST of the time now. And around his birthday that fateful year when I got bomb drop, our doctor diagnosed him with depression and paranoia and prescribed an anti-depressant, which worked wonders. But Boy Wonder Peter Pan doesn't take pills; he doesn't need help. . . so he just abruptly stopped taking them. 

So all that time I thought I was dealing with a man with real issues, and I took my vows seriously, and I didn't want to give up on him, and expected that he would come out of the fog of his crazy ideas about the affair as a solution to his problem. I thought he was having a midlife crisis and found sites and forums about that, prompted by his health issues. H had even told me he was sorry about the short-lived affair, had no intention of divorcing me, no intention of supporting her or her kid (she's been married three times and got pregnant with a guy, also with a pension, thinking he would marry her, but the guy kicked her to the curb and she was looking for a check bigger than the child support) . . . I felt his remorse, and I felt his fear. But ED is often a sign of poor circulation and heart issues, and the moments of amnesia or dementia seemed logically related to poor circulation. It took a heart attack about six months ago for him to get the really serious diagnosis and medical treatment he has needed all this time, and he's had surgery for an aneurysm, and is very fortunate that it was found. He'd been prescribed blood pressure medication a year or more, maybe two, ago, but took those pills intermittently. And then there was the prostate cancer scare from four years go until a second opinion ruled it out. But there has been a succession of health issues, impinging on his mental health.

So yes, Peter Pan is falling apart. In fairness, he had a hard time in surgery in August of this year, woke up on the ventilator, thought he was dying, and going to the funeral with me was huge, since mortality spooks him. But given how fortunate he is, to be able to have the diagnoses and surgery and the meds and the doctors and the treatments he needs, given all the opportunities to live a good and healthy, if somewhat limited, life compared to his adolescence, he still quotes Dylan Thomas every chance he gets ("Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light," "When one burns one's bridges what a very nice fire it makes," etc.), I'm really growing rather tired of his rage, ESPECIALLY given how MUCH compassion and support and understanding he's received from me. 

I thought I was supporting him, and part of this all is, of course, comes down to our expectations as the BS. My sister accuses me of making excuses, but there's no sensation like the person you live with and have loved for 20 years looking at you as if he doesn't know you. But I expected that as his physical health issues improved and his circulatory issues were addressed, his mental health would improve, but in fact, it is largely the opposite. I feel vindicated in my assessment that his circulation and heart issues were real and contributing to the problem, but where is his gratitude that those have been addressed? He DOES have three stents in his artery and those are stiff and cause some stomach discomfort, but at least he's not a walking timebomb. 

His lack of gratitude makes him unattractive because I come from British stock. At my mother's funeral here in the states, where she's lived since she was 17, the motto of her funeral was, keep calm and carry on. That's what she did when she got her cancer diagnosis. None of us are guaranteed anything; death comes at any time in many ways, and my husband has escaped its jaws SEVERAL times. And all he can do is be mean and grouchy about it. I am sure that he opted to go to the funeral to say goodbye and pay his respects to my mother, but it was also a trigger that made the text from his prescription of choice lo so many years ago, the OW, attractive. He could call her and talk to her and rescue her from her latest self-inflicted drama. 

So aside from ALL the damage that has be dealt with in reconciliation, which takes, I know, years, and I have been questioning whether I have it in me to do it (and I have been given a deadline of four months to finish writing my PhD dissertation, a process that usually takes a year after several years of research, although I'm told a SFD - sh**ty first draft will do and I can revise in the spring - I just must have paper by December), I am starting to see that our values on how you cope with aging are completely and profoundly at odds with each other. The affair, and his reasons for pursuing it, highlighted issues about the way he views aging and mortality, that persist long after the affair was over. 

I just want to scream at him, will you GROW UP? And the resounding answer, from his actions, is, nope.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@TeddieG are you receiving counseling?


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Truthseeker1, yes, at least, I am!! I went in the week after the bomb drop, spent about 12 weeks then, have gone in intermittently as needed, and then resumed regularly about 2 months ago just ahead of h's impending surgery. My counselor is very good. She was one of the counselors at my work place, and left after maternity leave (I had 12 weeks with her, and then she was gone for 12 so I saw someone else a few times after she and I made a good start, and then she only stayed a month or so when she returned). I saw other counselors there intermittently, but am now seeing the original one since she opened her own clinic. She is really very good at helping me work through things and to acknowledge that while my h has issues, he has a responsibility to deal with them, and we are exploring a host of things, including me putting my needs to complete this dissertation first and foremost while h continues to flail. 

We are not going to marriage counseling. H doesn't believe in counselors. Again, another disconnect. He hit rock bottom about two weeks ago, really collapsing under the weight of all his denial, and is really working on some of his issues, but since he is bi polar, there are two of him - the real him and the depressed angry raging against the dying of the light him (in my opinion wasting his time raging about it when he should be enjoying his life). In MLC speak, he's walking back through the stages of denial and withdrawal before he comes out of the tunnel for good. He and I had a LONG talk when the issue of prostate cancer emerged; it was monitored bi-annually for two years, and then almost a year ago his urologist recommended extreme surgery. He talked to me at length about quality of life issues and how he didn't want surgery, and I urged him to get a second opinion. He saw a specialist, the urologist who teaches and trains urologists at our University medical school here, and there was no cancer. So he dodged a bullet. He lives a charmed life, and hasn't a clue. I don't know what to do with that. And then the heart attack and the aneurysm discovery. 

And this is all reminiscent of the kidney stone period from 2007-2008 (three procedures to break up stones). After he had his stent and then the procedures to break up the stones, he was never the same, very withdrawn, very quiet. I was in over my head, didn't know what to do, thought that giving him space was best, brought it up on occasion to ask how he was doing, could I help. He went home for Christmas in 2007 without me and his mother complained how grouchy and short-tempered he was. No one in his family has the nerve to suggest to him he might be bi polar (his sister was diagnosed with it two years ago); rather his mother just keeps up her constant litany that his grandmother spoiled him. Who wouldn't want to be Peter Pan with a grandma like he had, and why SHOULD anyone seek help if the family pretends there's nothing wrong and to admit there is means a person is being judged? But he is just like his mother: it is always someone else's fault.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

I thnk I thought I was going to get answers for his behavior, the amazing about-face he did in 2007-2008 during the kidney stone ordeal. Increasingly I am convinced I am not; as an academic I want explanations for behaviors or change in mood or personality. But I'm not going to get them. It seems that the guy is not who he was, but he is what he is.

The reality about living with a bi polar is that the advice is not to take any of their insanity personally. And he is a veteran, saw some nasty stuff in Desert Storm; my stepfather is declining in a nursing home, having also been there. In many ways I am just one of an untold number of people dealing with stuff like this.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> I thnk I thought I was going to get answers for his behavior, the amazing about-face he did in 2007-2008 during the kidney stone ordeal. Increasingly I am convinced I am not; as an academic I want explanations for behaviors or change in mood or personality. But I'm not going to get them. It seems that the guy is not who he was, but he is what he is.
> 
> The reality about living with a bi polar is that you the advice is not to take any of their insanity personally. And he is a veteran, saw some nasty stuff in Desert Storm; my stepfather is declining in a nursing home, having also been there. In many ways I am just one of an untold number of people dealing with stuff like this.


 @TeddieG It seems like your marriage has been hit with one trauma after another and they are starting to stack up into an incredibly high pile. I can see how this reltionship has drained the life out of you - it is hard enough to care long term for a loyal loving spouse but a cheater and a liar - it is even harder.

You would do well to look up @Thorburn 's thread. His ordeal might help you with yours. He too is caring for a WS who is suffering form a long term illness. @Thorburn like you is a dedicated and loyal spouse. Perhaps he can help you with your situation.He also works with veterans and is one himself.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Fantastic, thank you. I have been reading this forum for a couple of weeks and there is a lot here. I read ReGroup's post and am reading Shamwow's first one now, but I do notice that one of the best ways to find the threads that apply to various situations come from recommendations from long-term members. Thank you Truthseeker!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Fantastic, thank you. I have been reading this forum for a couple of weeks and there is a lot here. I read ReGroup's post and am reading Shamwow's first one now, but I do notice that one of the best ways to find the threads that apply to various situations come from recommendations from long-term members. Thank you Truthseeker!


 @TeddieG You are very welcome - you have walked into the BEST marriage and relationship message board in the world. You will get an education here - you will be supported here - you have found the right place.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> how WS's love but are not in low with the BS, have to come out of the fog, etc but we don't explore the other side - what happens when the BS falls out of love, how can the WS make THEMSELVES more attractive to the BS they want to R with. Does the BS experience the "reverse fog" - whereas the WS snaps out of their fantasy world and realizes tey love the BS but the BS snaps out of their idealized love state and realizes they don't or can't love the WS anymore.


Yes 

I as a betrayed spouse now see clearly how my ex had taken me for granted . Taken my love for him , for the family , for my children , all for granted . 

When i proceeded with divorce , he asked over many occasions , are you serioisly divorcing over my parents n sisters , and are you breaking up the family , are you causing this hurt on my children . 

I told him you did all this . I have been telling you not to do this to the family n children . Even the children wanted me to divorce now that they saw the dad hit me . I had asked them . 

Now that they know he had used my money to pay his debts and yet he tried to bluff the court so as not to pay . N that he didnt send support . They used him like he is santa claus . 

So the fog clear n love is gone . It will never be back . At least not for him . 

In fact for any other man , i am wary now


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

tripad, I think what I hear you saying is that your h expected you to live with and adapt to his dysfunction and the family dysfunction. Perhaps I am hearing that because I feel my h expects that of me. On the midlife crisis forums I found, the advice to the left behind/betrayed spouse was, work on yourself. That is, not that we did anything to cause the infidelity, but rather, what have we always wanted to do if we had the freedom? Some people took up gardening, others took up art and painting; I already had a PhD underway (my h gave me the speech not only the day before I had a job interview, but also just before my general exams for my PhD). It is almost like he was sabotaging my forward progress, angry that I was doing something with my life and that I had to work or had commitments. When he was gone, during the separation, I worked on that, and after the speech I lost 20 pounds. Since then I've had surgery to remove an eye, surgery on the other one for skin cancer, and my gall bladder removed, but I'm still finishing the dissertation! He is so much my opposite; he is just such a wimp. 

So now I feel I took the bull by the horns and moved forward and kept things happening and took on an extra teaching job so I wouldn't lose my rental house and have to move into a crappy apartment. All my resiliency came to the fore at a time when my husband had NONE. 

Sometimes a spouse's infidelity highlights problems that may have existed in a marriage (none of which rose to the level of excusing the infidelity) and the cheating spouse didn't have the intestinal fortitude to deal with the issues and took a selfish way out, but sometimes infidelity exposes the problems a person has had all along and they lose the ability to hold themselves and the facade together. My h's coping mechanisms failed him, and they were probably pretty thin to begin with, due to issues of his family of origin. His father died when h was 15 after being sick (heart condition) for three years, and his controlling mother wouldn't let the kids in the room to see their father after his successful surgery, only for him to die of an infection three days later. 

But while they're doing their infidelity thing, we're finding ourselves and renewing our connection with ourselves and learn to love ourselves again, and then if they want to come back and haven't done the work, then what? 

I love your expression "used him like Santa Claus." It is hard to respect someone who lets themselves be walked on at our expense.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

I wont ever get back whatever the future circumstances he is in


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Confusing comment above


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Yes
> 
> I as a betrayed spouse now see clearly how my ex had taken me for granted . Taken my love for him , for the family , for my children , all for granted .
> 
> ...


That is the sh!tty thing about betrayal - in this case financial betrayal - it frequently sucks the life out of the BS's next relationship or even their ability to have one. I do think it also permanently destroys the BS's rose colored glasses for any other human being. That I think is a good thing.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> tripad, I think what I hear you saying is that your h expected you to live with and adapt to his dysfunction and the family dysfunction. Perhaps I am hearing that because I feel my h expects that of me. On the midlife crisis forums I found, the advice to the left behind/betrayed spouse was, work on yourself. That is, not that we did anything to cause the infidelity, but rather, what have we always wanted to do if we had the freedom? Some people took up gardening, others took up art and painting; I already had a PhD underway (my h gave me the speech not only the day before I had a job interview, but also just before my general exams for my PhD). It is almost like he was sabotaging my forward progress, angry that I was doing something with my life and that I had to work or had commitments. When he was gone, during the separation, I worked on that, and after the speech I lost 20 pounds. Since then I've had surgery to remove an eye, surgery on the other one for skin cancer, and my gall bladder removed, but I'm still finishing the dissertation! He is so much my opposite; he is just such a wimp.
> 
> So now I feel I took the bull by the horns and moved forward and kept things happening and took on an extra teaching job so I wouldn't lose my rental house and have to move into a crappy apartment. All my resiliency came to the fore at a time when my husband had NONE.
> 
> ...


I think one of the keys to love and attraction is respect and very often the BS loses that for the WS (understandably so). With respect lost and difficult to get back it is easy to see how the attraction for the WS just crumbles. Perhaps that is why the attraction for the WS wanes is becuase the respect is lost.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Personal said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> > Confusing comment above
> ...


Physical beauty is one thing . 

I feel that the physical features display the inner being . Like kind people has kind face . 

So the physical beauty may be there but the perception should have somewhat changed .


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> > Yes
> ...


How is it a good thing ?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> How is it a good thing ?


What I meant is blind trust in or idealized love for another human being is a time bomb waiting to go off. If you realize people are capable of these things it makes it harder to be blindsided. I think the term "good" should have been replaced with "useful" which is more appropriate.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Physical beauty is one thing .
> 
> I feel that the physical features display the inner being . Like kind people has kind face .
> 
> So the physical beauty may be there but the perception should have somewhat changed .


Also when you look at that person - you realize their physical beauty has been enjoyed by another person which makes it less "yours" or "less special" between you both.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

My ex cheated financially n hit me .

He can be enjoyed by another . I dont care . I pity the next woman , honestly , since i know first hand what is to come later .

One day i will " enjoy " too ;-)


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> My ex cheated financially n hit me .
> 
> He can be enjoyed by another . I dont care . I pity the next woman , honestly , since i know first hand what is to come later .
> 
> ...


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

Yes, I still find her attractive but not near as much as I did before and as for the personality, I am working extremely hard (despite my love for her) to see her as someone I think highly of - she appears weak minded and foolish to me which is difficult to overcome. I am grateful we have our daughter as she is the primary reason I stuck it out in the beginning, otherwise I would have ended it on the spot I am sure.....


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## McDean (Jun 13, 2015)

Second add - in their 'fogs' or intent to betray it seems like WSs have little understanding of how they are or will be perceived, they take for granted how much we love them - that we will always want to be with them regardless or they simply don't care....they also tend to think everyone else in their lives will get over it (kids, family, co-workers etc)...I have found this is not necessarily the case....perception of cheaters is still really low in our society...thankfully.....


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

McDean said:


> Yes, I still find her attractive but not near as much as I did before and as for the personality, *I am working extremely hard (despite my love for her) to see her as someone I think highly of - she appears weak minded and foolish to me which is difficult to overcome.* I am grateful we have our daughter as she is the primary reason I stuck it out in the beginning, otherwise I would have ended it on the spot I am sure.....


I think for a lot of BSs it comes down to a loss of respect for the WS - which is difficult to regain when it has been lost is such a violent, soul crushing manner. It's hard to find someone attractive you don't respect.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

McDean said:


> Second add - in their 'fogs' or intent to betray it seems like WSs have little understanding of how they are or will be perceived, they take for granted how much we love them - that we will always want to be with them regardless or they simply don't care....they also tend to think everyone else in their lives will get over it (kids, family, co-workers etc)...I have found this is not necessarily the case....perception of cheaters is still really low in our society...thankfully.....


This is SO true in my h's case.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

McDean said:


> Second add - in their 'fogs' or intent to betray it seems like WSs have little understanding of how they are or will be perceived, they take for granted how much we love them - that we will always want to be with them regardless or they simply don't care....they also tend to think everyone else in their lives will get over it (kids, family, co-workers etc)...I have found this is not necessarily the case....perception of cheaters is still really low in our society...thankfully.....


Cheaters always floor me when they are shocked by the severity of the fall out form their affair. They can't get their heads around how they have not only devastated their spouse but their children as well. It's nauseating.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Initially I found her more attractive, I don't know if this was some kind primal instinct, competition, bit after that feeling waned, I started to find her repulsive

That was me though


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

McDean said:


> WSs have little understanding of how they are or will be perceived, they take for granted how much we love them - that we will always want to be with them regardless or they simply don't care....they also tend to think everyone else in their lives will get over it


I wonder how they think that the BS will not break and continue on and on . i just cant understand .

I feel that my ex just cant believe it even when the divorce paper is signed . asking me stupid questions in the text , like , "if you want me back , you begged and I will think about it and you received me like King " and i was like what ?  i thought I just signed the divorce papers .

Can any man explain this to me ? cant figure it out till today .



Truthseeker1 said:


> Cheaters always floor me when they are shocked by the severity of the fall out form their affair. They can't get their heads around how they have not only devastated their spouse but their children as well. It's nauseating.


Yup . He cant see how much he has hurt the kids and the kids had wanted the divorce for me as well . He cant see that the kids are pissed now that they had gotten over the initial saddness of seeing the dad hit me and later to know the entire truth .

He cant see that the kids doesnt bother replying his text except on access day . Initially , he blamed me for hiding their phone or denying them the phone , which are not true .

They are so blind , that sometimes , i wondered if I am actually the blind one , which is what he accused me of . Like the movie "Others" by Nicole Kidman , it turned out that the we are actually the ghost , yet fearful the others are the ghost .


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ricky15100 said:


> Initially I found her more attractive, I don't know if this was some kind primal instinct, competition, bit after that feeling waned, I started to find her repulsive
> 
> That was me though


how long did it take for the feeling to wane?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> She has shown promise so far..I know R is a process and I wish you luck on your journey do.



Truthseeker1

We haven't always seen eye to eye or mutually agree on everything, but I wanted to thank you for always throwing out support to me. It means a lot, especially on days where I struggle and today is one of those days. I hope you stick around for a long time here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

drifting on said:


> Truthseeker1
> 
> We haven't always seen eye to eye or mutually agree on everything, but I wanted to thank you for always throwing out support to me. It means a lot, especially on days where I struggle and today is one of those days. I hope you stock around for a long time here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are very welcome - DO you can not choose a mans path for him - each man must follow his code and see it through - I am supportive of you on your journey - and I truly do wish you peace and happiness wherever the road leaves you...


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I've had 2 ex's. who cheated on me.

interestingly enough, their physical attraction never waned in my eyes. Their character repulsed, crushed 
and disappointed me, but I never stopped thinking they were good looking.

on the other hand, i did reach a point where i refused to be intimate. 
not because they were unattractive, but for the damage they could further do me.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

I am only responding to the original question without having read the thread. No, Yes, No, then I'll give this another look. My story is complex. I was desperate for my wife while this was going on and I did not even know what it was. Then I was disgusted and wanted nothing to do with her. Then I saw our children and said let's make this work and we had some good moments. Then it got difficult and I thought to myself "Why the hell are you doing this?" There has been a lot of that. Now we are in a relatively good place and I hope we stay there. But it can be fairly predicted that things will change again. The attraction question is interesting. There are times I look and say "What?" There are times I look and see the woman I married and raised a family with and say "What are we doing? We love each other." Tough one. Definitely has a profound impact on how you see your spouse. Our story isn't over and I am sure it will have as many turns as a river.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Also when you look at that person - you realize their physical beauty has been enjoyed by another person which makes it less "yours" or "less special" between you both.


Yup. Wish there was a SUPER like button.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Yup. Wish there was a SUPER like button.


The affair has obviously made the BS and what the cheater had with them less special. Your cheating spouse shared their most intimate self with another person, and in the case of LTAs, repeatedly while being married to you. There is something really messed up about a person who has the cpacity to lie and betray repeatedly for years and years. That is some serious problem to fix. Which is why all their "i love yous" and "i want yous" ring hollow since the proably said that to the OM or OW.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

TeddieG said:


> tripad, I think what I hear you saying is that your h expected you to live with and adapt to his dysfunction and the family dysfunction. Perhaps I am hearing that because I feel my h expects that of me. On the midlife crisis forums I found, the advice to the left behind/betrayed spouse was, work on yourself. That is, not that we did anything to cause the infidelity, but rather, what have we always wanted to do if we had the freedom? Some people took up gardening, others took up art and painting; I already had a PhD underway (my h gave me the speech not only the day before I had a job interview, but also just before my general exams for my PhD). It is almost like he was sabotaging my forward progress, angry that I was doing something with my life and that I had to work or had commitments. When he was gone, during the separation, I worked on that, and after the speech I lost 20 pounds. Since then I've had surgery to remove an eye, surgery on the other one for skin cancer, and my gall bladder removed, but I'm still finishing the dissertation! He is so much my opposite; he is just such a wimp.
> 
> So now I feel I took the bull by the horns and moved forward and kept things happening and took on an extra teaching job so I wouldn't lose my rental house and have to move into a crappy apartment. All my resiliency came to the fore at a time when my husband had NONE.
> 
> ...


Hey that's a lot you went through !

Hugs n kisses to you


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think for a lot of BSs it comes down to a loss of respect for the WS - which is difficult to regain when it has been lost is such a violent, soul crushing manner. It's hard to find someone attractive you don't respect.



This was the exact reaction I had to my LTgf when I discovered her A.

She completely disgusted me as a person....I had zero respect for her from that moment forward, and wanted nothing to do with hearing any of her excuses after I confronted.

I ended our R immediately on D-Day....through her out 15 min after the confrontation.

Told her to tell me when she was coming by to get her stuff so I wouldn't have to see her, and told her to leave the key on my kitchen table as she left for good.

Eight months later she came back in tears begging for another chance.....confessed all the details and her explanations for what happened.

But I had forever lost any respect for her....still was disgusted at the thought of being with her.

Told her no way was I going back, and she broke to pieces right in front of me.

Wasn't very pleasant to watch, but their was no love or attraction left.....just pity at how devastated she was that I wouldn't forgive her.

She tried everything she could think of to change my mind....even going so far as to remind me that she had told her dad on his deathbed just hours before his passing from Lou Gehrig's disease (about 2 months before she cheated) that she would be OK...we were planning our M and she would be happy.

She said that was all she had been able to think about for months before coming to see me.

I did feel bad for her...but her infidelity had really killed any love and attraction I had ever felt for her.


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

Anyone who has ever even thought of having an A should read this thread to see just how much damage is done to a relationship. I think this thread could cut through the densest fog. WS assume they won't get caught, they will be forgiven if they are, and that they will always be given a second chance. Clearly that is seldom the case.

The whole hysterical bonding thing is however curious temporary and apparently not indicative of a successful R. 

In IC I was told that you should never feel so comfortable as to think your S would never leave you. That leads to behaviour that is detrimental to the M. If you feel certain they will never leave the marriage then you can be neglectful of yourself, them and the relationship without fear of consequences. Look at them from someone else's eyes and realize they could be desired physically and emotionally by someone else. Nothing is absolute despite what fairytales would have you believe. You have to work at it.

This is helpful advice to prevent a breakdown of a marriage. It has been helpful to me during R. Right now I would say my H is more desirable to me. But then again I don't know for sure if anything happened . If I knew with certainty all the details I may vomit and never get over it. Limbo is difficult and relentless but surety may be worse.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> This was the exact reaction I had to my LTgf when I discovered her A.
> 
> She completely disgusted me as a person....I had zero respect for her from that moment forward, and wanted nothing to do with hearing any of her excuses after I confronted.
> 
> ...


Im sure this is not uncommon. I mean cheating is a betrayal on the deepest level imaginable. The emotional manipulation pertaining to her dad just shows how she would do anything she needed to get what she wanted. Something tells me she spent much of those 8 months with the OM but it didn't work out. Where is she now? Did she ever marry?


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

nursejackie said:


> *Anyone who has ever even thought of having an A should read this thread to see just how much damage is done to a relationship. I think this thread could cut through the densest fog. WS assume they won't get caught, they will be forgiven if they are, and that they will always be given a second chance. Clearly that is seldom the case.*
> 
> The whole hysterical bonding thing is however curious temporary and apparently not indicative of a successful R.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for posting this!! I agree!!! I am always shocked when cheating spouses are surprised at the extent of the fallout from their affair. They devastate their spouse, their kids, the extended family is put in a bad spot - everyone gets hit with the fallout. every been around a person who cheated? I have a lot of experience with this - you never quite look at them the same way. 

The reason I started this thread as well as previous threads on the effects affairs have on children is because I think both the BS and even more so the WS need to see just how WIDE and DEEP the damage they've done is. What angers me is when the WS gets "impatient" because the R is taking to long or its too tough. My answer to that is well you had the ograsms now its time to pay the bill.

I'm also not sure many if any at all WS truly get it.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> What angers me is when the WS gets "impatient" because the R is taking to long or its too tough. My answer to that is well you had the ograsms now its time to pay the bill.
> 
> I'm also not sure many if any at all WS truly get it.


My h used to have a saying . . . you have to pay to play. He's gonna be paying for a while . . .


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> My h used to have a saying . . . you have to pay to play. He's gonna be paying for a while . . .


And he deserves to pay for awhile...


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Im sure this is not uncommon. I mean cheating is a betrayal on the deepest level imaginable. The emotional manipulation pertaining to her dad just shows how she would do anything she needed to get what she wanted. Something tells me she spent much of those 8 months with the OM but it didn't work out. Where is she now? Did she ever marry?


I know she did eventually marry some guy from her church.

Do not know where she is now or if she is still married.

And POSOM didn't stay with her long at all.....he was one of those 'sensitive' scumbags that acts so supportive and caring, totally played on the fact she was REALLY struggling with her dad's death....the type of user sh*tbag that I completely despise who takes advantage of people when they are at their lowest under the cover of 'being there' for them.

I tried to be there for her as much as I could...giving her comfort when she wanted it, or space when she said she needed it.

I could see how much she was hurt and struggling.

But the turd's support was appreciated more (as she told me in her confession).....she knew I was there for her, as she said it was sort of expected or a given.

POS's care and support was new and fresh....somehow it meant more to her cause it was coming from a relative stranger.

Reminds me of the BS's who say their WS's give no credit for the compliments the BS delivers 'because you are supposed to'.....but POS AP's compliments and attention are somehow so much more meaningful and special.....I guess because they 'don't' have to.

Stupidest reasoning ever IMO.

I told her I didn't HAVE to be there for her....I CHOSE to do it because I loved her.

I guess she finally learned the difference between HAVE to and CHOOSE to when I booted her out and denied her ever having my love, support, and attention again.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> I know she did eventually marry some guy from her church.
> 
> Do not know where she is now or if she is still married.
> 
> ...


Her church? SMH Isn't that special? What is so unfair is she has moved on and married and left you with the scars...I can see how cheaters become ugly in the eyes of the betrayed. I'm sure she uses her dads death as an excuse in her mind to act like a POS. Have you moved on to a new relationship?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

When my ex left, she underwent a bit of a physical transformation (lost weight, nicer clothes, attention to hair and makeup) and by all objective measures made herself more physically attractive. But whenever she was in my presence after divorce, the only thing I ever really noticed about my feelings was complete devoid sexual or physical attraction, there is no chance in the universe of any chemical reaction sparking up again.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

tripad said:


> Hey that's a lot you went through !
> 
> Hugs n kisses to you


Thank you Tripad.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Truthseeker said:


> you never quite look at them the same way.
> 
> What angers me is when the WS gets "impatient" because the R is taking to long or its too tough.
> 
> I'm also not sure many if any at all WS truly get it.


My ex look different after i realised . 

My ex said -" just get over right now n move on. Dont show me the anger . Go deal with it yourself . " " shut the **** up about the money my family owe you " " you just feed this house and dont ask what i do with my money " 

I told him " so i can go n fuvk anyone i want n you shut the fuvk up too and you go deal with it " .


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Her church? SMH Isn't that special? What is so unfair is she has moved on and married and left you with the scars...I can see how cheaters become ugly in the eyes of the betrayed. I'm sure she uses her dads death as an excuse in her mind to act like a POS. Have you moved on to a new relationship?


Well, she didn't marry til several years later from what I heard.

I think after I told her no second chance, the whole experience was far more devastating to her than it ever was to me.

Heard through mutual friends that she really took it hard that I coldly rejected her pleas for another chance.

I was engaged several years after we broke up....but we ended up calling off the wedding (not infidelity related at all).

Since then, I have been in many relationships, but usually of a far more casual nature.

I have become very picky with choosing anyone for a serious relationship....if I notice any red flags in behavior, in particular with honesty and openness, I refuse to allow the relationship to go there.

Is this wariness an effect of her?

Not really...more of an accumulation of knowledge and experience from all the many women I've dated.....one thing I have come to realize in all my life experiences is that most people, women or men, have far less of a commitment to honesty than I will tolerate.

Even if they don't actively tell lies, most people I have met engage in the psuedo-lie of the half truth.

And when it comes to women I date, I just simply will not tolerate it.

I'm very comfortable with myself....I don't NEED anyone to make my life happy....and that allows me the personal freedom to simply enjoy life.

I've often said that IMO the ultimate bliss in this world would be to be in a fantastic M to a worthy person who loved you, and who you loved totally.

But....being single and happy with yourself is a close second.

And h*ll on earth is being in a relationship with a traitorous or unloving partner, who treats you with disrespect and mental anguish.

All in all....I'll stay picky....cause I don't want any part of that drama and frustration.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

This phenomenon, where we find our WSes less appealing in various ways, is one of the big reasons why I don't believe anyone truly reconciles. I'm certain if we could plumb the depths of the BSes mind we'd find memories of the "spouse that was" accompanied by figurative headstones inscribed with a deep R.I.P. over them.

Before my WW cheated on me she would sometimes ask what made me love her. I'd respond that she was the one who stayed. She didn't think very much of that, and I admit it doesn't sound poetic or romantic, but to me it meant everything...until D-Day. Before my wife I had too many relationships end in disappointment, one of which left me not desiring romantic love for about a year. Then I met her. She was so committed to me, sometimes to a point of annoyance, but it was what made me appreciate her all the more. I cherished how she was by my side, and me by hers.

On D-Day my wife changed from the one who stayed to the one who strayed, and that's not something forgiveness can even fix. Facts are facts, and all my wishful thinking of having a successful R couldn't make history different.

We had hysterical bonding too. It was about once a day for six months, every other day for almost 18 more, and I felt dirty almost every time. Slowly I began to realize that my marriage was broken. I thought I might be able to get it back, but I wasn't willing to buy into delusions to do it. Here's one of the kickers too: my WW was being remorseful, patient, and everything else you need for a successful "R". Eventually it dawned on me that while I didn't then, and I still don't despise her as a person now, I just felt so empty, lost, and sad whenever I had to look at her. 

Sure, sometimes I'd feel in my heart that she was the woman I had originally married, but it was always tainted underneath by the knowledge of what her "love" for me had wrought. I know we all make mistakes, but love and character really only matter when it's the hard thing to do. It's easy to tell me that you love me, and that you'll never hurt me when I'm sitting next to you, but when the test comes, that's where our true colors are earned.

Here's another thing that has been a huge realization for me. I know for a fact that I didn't idealize our relationship to the point where I believed there could be no wrong committed between us, because it was I who deliberately looked for and found the A. That ability to see the flaws didn't lessen the pain or shock of the A though. I think that my big flaw was my gratitude that we weren't like "all those other couples" who had affairs, and marital problems, and drama. Then once I found myself in the shoes of one of those very couples, I had lost so much of what I valued that I couldn't find something beyond our children to hold on to anymore.

I know I've grown and made more of myself through all of this, but I can't shake the feeling that the I've paid Rolls Royce prices for a used Pinto, regardless how this whole mess ended.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Retribution said:


> This phenomenon, where we find our WSes less appealing in various ways, is one of the big reasons why I don't believe anyone truly reconciles. I'm certain if we could plumb the depths of the BSes mind we'd find memories of the "spouse that was" accompanied by figurative headstones inscribed with a deep R.I.P. over them.
> 
> Before my WW cheated on me she would sometimes ask what made me love her. I'd respond that she was the one who stayed. She didn't think very much of that, and I admit it doesn't sound poetic or romantic, but to me it meant everything...until D-Day. Before my wife I had too many relationships end in disappointment, one of which left me not desiring romantic love for about a year. Then I met her. She was so committed to me, sometimes to a point of annoyance, but it was what made me appreciate her all the more. I cherished how she was by my side, and me by hers.
> 
> ...



Well written . All from the heart .


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Retribution said:


> This phenomenon, where we find our WSes less appealing in various ways, is one of the big reasons why I don't believe anyone truly reconciles. I'm certain if we could plumb the depths of the BSes mind we'd find memories of the "spouse that was" accompanied by figurative headstones inscribed with a deep R.I.P. over them.
> 
> Before my WW cheated on me she would sometimes ask what made me love her. I'd respond that she was the one who stayed. She didn't think very much of that, and I admit it doesn't sound poetic or romantic, but to me it meant everything...until D-Day. Before my wife I had too many relationships end in disappointment, one of which left me not desiring romantic love for about a year. Then I met her. She was so committed to me, sometimes to a point of annoyance, but it was what made me appreciate her all the more. I cherished how she was by my side, and me by hers.
> 
> ...


So well said.

Did you end up staying in the M or filing for D?


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Retribution said:


> This phenomenon, where we find our WSes less appealing in various ways, is one of the big reasons why I don't believe anyone truly reconciles. I'm certain if we could plumb the depths of the BSes mind we'd find memories of the "spouse that was" accompanied by figurative headstones inscribed with a deep R.I.P. over them.
> 
> Before my WW cheated on me she would sometimes ask what made me love her. I'd respond that she was the one who stayed. She didn't think very much of that, and I admit it doesn't sound poetic or romantic, but to me it meant everything...until D-Day. Before my wife I had too many relationships end in disappointment, one of which left me not desiring romantic love for about a year. Then I met her. She was so committed to me, sometimes to a point of annoyance, but it was what made me appreciate her all the more. I cherished how she was by my side, and me by hers.
> 
> ...


Awesome post.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> So well said.
> 
> Did you end up staying in the M or filing for D?


It's over. I couldn't live like that anymore. It was a choice between hell being married or moving on from the source of my life's greatest pain.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Well, she didn't marry til several years later from what I heard.
> 
> I think after I told her no second chance, the whole experience was far more devastating to her than it ever was to me.
> 
> ...


I think that is a great realization - being comfortable with yourself and independent allows you to choose a partner from a place of strength and not neediness. I agree being alone and healthy and happy is far better than being in a marriage with a person who is a cheater, sucking the happiness form your life.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> This phenomenon, where we find our WSes less appealing in various ways, is one of the big reasons why I don't believe anyone truly reconciles. I'm certain if we could plumb the depths of the BSes mind we'd find memories of the "spouse that was" accompanied by figurative headstones inscribed with a deep R.I.P. over them.
> 
> Before my WW cheated on me she would sometimes ask what made me love her. I'd respond that she was the one who stayed. She didn't think very much of that, and I admit it doesn't sound poetic or romantic, but to me it meant everything...until D-Day. Before my wife I had too many relationships end in disappointment, one of which left me not desiring romantic love for about a year. Then I met her. She was so committed to me, sometimes to a point of annoyance, but it was what made me appreciate her all the more. I cherished how she was by my side, and me by hers.
> 
> ...



Well written and illuminating. Did she become less appealing physically or personality wise or both? How long was her affair? Where is she now? 

WSs or those thinking abuot becoming one should read this post and digest it. Your affair and its aftereffects simply don't go away because you cry a lot, say i'm sorry and are "remorseful" - once you cheat you can not control the aftershocks of what you did.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lon said:


> When my ex left, she underwent a bit of a physical transformation (lost weight, nicer clothes, attention to hair and makeup) and by all objective measures made herself more physically attractive. *But whenever she was in my presence after divorce, the only thing I ever really noticed about my feelings was complete devoid sexual or physical attraction, there is no chance in the universe of any chemical reaction sparking up again*.


I think this happens more than is discussed. How can you find a person attractive who violated you in such a vile manner? I know some people can obviously but many cna not and it makes sense.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think this happens more than is discussed. How can you find a person attractive who violated you in such a vile manner? I know some people can obviously but many cna not and it makes sense.


For me, it was as if his mask had come off, the second of the discovery.

I watched his face change right before my eyes in that moment, and it's remained the same ever since. All I can see is a reptile. And this is a good-looking man who is tall and slim and fit, dresses nicely, and is impeccably groomed. 

I can barely stand to look at him, but when I do out of politeness and because I was taught as a kid that you must always look a person in the eye when you speak with them, I can feel my skin crawling. 

I don't believe people change. I believe, like many have said here, that we overlook and deny the ugliness that is always there in our partners. Looking back, many friends and family members warned me about him - saying he was selfish, he was not going to be there for me, he was all that mattered to him. I couldn't see it. Until he did the most selfish thing of all, and the mask came off.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Nomorebeans said:


> For me, it was as if his mask had come off, the second of the discovery.
> 
> I watched his face change right before my eyes in that moment, and it's remained the same ever since. All I can see is a reptile. And this is a good-looking man who is tall and slim and fit, dresses nicely, and is impeccably groomed.
> 
> ...


I'm jaded I admit that - but I believe a lot of cheaters who show "remorse" are more afraid of the consequences than actually feeling bad for their BS and what they have done to them. Once again it comes back to the cheater and their own interests.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Yes

Their own selfish interest.

Not the spouse . Not even the children !!!!!


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Yes
> 
> Their own selfish interest.
> 
> Not the spouse . Not even the children !!!!!


And the WS gets all the pleasure and the BS and the kids just get the scars - totally [email protected]#$%^ up....


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think that is a great realization - being comfortable with yourself and independent allows you to choose a partner from a place of strength and not neediness. I agree being alone and healthy and happy is far better than being in a marriage with a person who is a cheater, sucking the happiness form your life.


Truthseeker1,

I agree....but it goes beyond just cheating in a partner.

There are a lot of other flaws and issues that can be nearly as soulsucking as infidelity in a relationship.

I avoid them all.....being with an emotional monster, who just happened to not be a cheater, wouldn't be something I wanted either.

Infidelity is just at the pinnacle of sh*tty behaviors that people who want a good relationship should never put up with.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> Truthseeker1,
> 
> I agree....but it goes beyond just cheating in a partner.
> 
> ...


The heathier you are inside...the better equipped you will be to face relationship issues or in some cases avoid soul sucking partners...I think people who cheat are fundamentally unhealthy inside..


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Well written and illuminating. Did she become less appealing physically or personality wise or both? How long was her affair? Where is she now?
> 
> WSs or those thinking abuot becoming one should read this post and digest it. Your affair and its aftereffects simply don't go away because you cry a lot, say i'm sorry and are "remorseful" - once you cheat you can not control the aftershocks of what you did.


She was less appealing in both regards, and that feeling increased as time passed. I found my feelings morphing from love and a desire to just keep what I once had into numbness.

Her affair was only four months and with one AP. I know that isn't much time, but when I consider how those four months affected the last five years (Yes, D-Day was almost five years ago.) it really puts perspective on how far reaching four months, one night, or however long can be. I will add that if it were a multiple year type situation, the only difference would be how quickly the D happened.

Where is she now? Working as an executive assistant for a large local company. She seems to have reconnected with her faith, while I doubt anything that cannot present solid evidence, and that includes love. I haven't seen much on the horizon for her in the dating world yet. She didn't want D, but it wasn't right to either of us for me to stay when I felt the way I did. Ultimately I didn't want D either, I know I wanted how living with her made me feel even less though.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> tripad said:
> 
> 
> > Yes
> ...



Tell me about it .

&*#¥?#

My poor children grew up overnight .


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> Tell me about it .
> 
> &*#¥?#
> 
> *My poor children grew up overnight* .


Betrayers never think about the damage they are doing to their children - ever. In my own sphere I know several children of cheating parents - approximately half went on to become cheaters themselves. The damage done by infidelity is wide and deep and can not be undone.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> She was less appealing in both regards, and that feeling increased as time passed. I found my feelings morphing from love and a desire to just keep what I once had into numbness.
> 
> Her affair was only four months and with one AP. I know that isn't much time, but when I consider how those four months affected the last five years (Yes, D-Day was almost five years ago.) it really puts perspective on how far reaching four months, one night, or however long can be.* I will add that if it were a multiple year type situation, the only difference would be how quickly the D happened.* Have to agree there - that is a serious breach of trust and shows a depraved mindset on the part of the cheater.
> 
> Where is she now? Working as an executive assistant for a large local company. She seems to have reconnected with her faith, while I doubt anything that cannot present solid evidence, and that includes love. I haven't seen much on the horizon for her in the dating world yet. She didn't want D, but it wasn't right to either of us for me to stay when I felt the way I did. Ultimately I didn't want D either, I know I wanted how living with her made me feel even less though.



Have you done IC? Does she still try to contact you?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> I think this happens more than is discussed. How can you find a person attractive who violated you in such a vile manner? I know some people can obviously but many cna not and it makes sense.


Yep, even if she looked like Jessica Alba I still don't think I'd have touched her with a ten foot pole.

disclaimer: Maybe.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lon said:


> Yep, even if she looked like Jessica Alba I still don't think I'd have touched her with a ten foot pole.
> 
> disclaimer: Maybe.


LOL That's a tough one even for me...


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Have you done IC? Does she still try to contact you?


No. We did counseling together the first year after D-Day. I don't feel like it touched on the issues that were important, and rarely the therapist would turn on me, placing responsibility for the A on me. I thought it was bad enough I got to eat the sh!t sandwich that was my own emotions, then on top of it I got to deal with guilt for making her vulnerable to her own choices.

Yes. We still have contact. We have children. I love my children, but it's funny that even in D I can't fully leave her behind.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> No. We did counseling together the first year after D-Day. I don't feel like it touched on the issues that were important, and rarely the therapist would turn on me, placing responsibility for the A on me. I thought it was bad enough I got to eat the sh!t sandwich that was my own emotions, then on top of it I got to deal with guilt for making her vulnerable to her own choices.
> 
> Yes. We still have contact. We have children. I love my children, but it's funny that even in D I can't fully leave her behind.


Did your ex blame you for the affair? You should have tried another therapist. That therapist was awful.

Does she date? Why did she cheat? Do you think you can R down the line?


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Lon said:


> Yep, even if she looked like Jessica Alba I still don't think I'd have touched her with a ten foot pole.
> 
> disclaimer: Maybe.


I will say that my xWW is a looker to most. Her beauty is certainly one thing that attracted me to her when we started dating. Knowing she's hot, has shared herself with at least one other man, and will likely share again; that just makes me want to never see her again. Note: I'm not condemning all women who have had sex with somebody else. Just the ones who did that while married to me. I'd rather not subject myself to more pain.

Then there's Jessica. If only she weren't married...and I had a chance. :grin2:


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Did your ex blame you for the affair? You should have tried another therapist. That therapist was awful.
> 
> Does she date? Why did she cheat? Do you think you can R down the line?


If she ever personally blamed me, I never heard her say it. She's been oddly accepting of everything she was responsible for.

I don't ask if she dates, and I don't really want to know at this point. The more I separate from her in all aspects just serves to relieve the hell I lived with while married.

Why did she cheat? She was home alone a lot during the time. In order to save money on child care we worked opposite schedules. An old interest from her teen years showed up and they just had to share stories, time, etc. I even specifically warned her about him, why I didn't trust the twat waffle, and asked her to never be alone with him because I don't believe a man and a woman are ever "just friends". To top it all off, she decided she was above mistakes, and conventional wisdom, so one thing led to another and bam! Perfect storm.

Do I think we can R down the road. No. Hard pass. I don't want to have a romantic relationship at all, let alone with the woman who facilitated this whole mess. Besides, every R I'm aware of in my own life didn't last past 20 years. Invariably fallen victim to events started from the affair before. Then I read about these couples who do last past the 20 year mark and they "weathered the storm". I read phrases like, "D would have been easier, but I'm happy with my choice", "The affair saved our marriage", "Our relationship has never been better". Really? Is that why you have to fight off those feelings of jealousy, mistrust, and disappointment years later? Because it's better? I'll concede that maybe those couples do communicate, or function outwardly better, but underneath all those rainbows and unicorns lies the taint that the A planted. Too often I read about those very couples dealing with a death in their old age, and the truth comes out. The BS harbored feelings of betrayal, disappointment, anger, and the list goes on; right up until death. "If only I had forgiven him.", they say. Here's a hint, maybe the scars and wounds we bear aren't a lack of forgiveness, but a fact of life. All that to salvage a relationship that made you feel what?

I have to be honest, if I'm feeling disgust with myself almost every time I have sex. If I even occasionally wonder "Is she really at work late?" If I trigger even once. That colors the rest of the relationship. It's just as much a part as the good, but I knew the good before the A. That kind of good was hard enough without the A too. No thank you. I don't think R happens without "healthy" doses of delusion.

Sorry for the novel, but this is something I'm very opinionated on.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> If she ever personally blamed me, I never heard her say it. She's been oddly accepting of everything she was responsible for.
> 
> I don't ask if she dates, and I don't really want to know at this point. The more I separate from her in all aspects just serves to relieve the hell I lived with while married.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing. Your post was articulate, honest and heart breaking. We have BSs here posting about affairs that happened YEARS and YEARS ago -it never goes away does it? Do you think IC could help with some of these feelings at all? Does yur ex reach out to you at all besides talkng about the kids?


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I even specifically warned her about him, why I didn't trust the twat waffle, and asked her to never be alone with him because I don't believe a man and a woman are ever "just friends"."

IMO this is one of the WORST things a WS can do....and I think any BS who would try to R after a situation like this would be crazy.

An A is bad enough....but when the BS SPECIFICALLY warns the WS BEFORE the A about the future POS AP and asks/tells them to stay away from them....and the WS blows right through that and has the A any way.

Well, in my book, that is about the BIGGEST 'f*ck you' that the WS can deliver to their BS.

It is absolutely unforgivable under any circumstances IMO.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Thank you for sharing. Your post was articulate, honest and heart breaking. We have BSs here posting about affairs that happened YEARS and YEARS ago -it never goes away does it? Do you think IC could help with some of these feelings at all? Does yur ex reach out to you at all besides talkng about the kids?


Thank you for the compliments. I'd say I'm happy to share, but it's hard to shake the feeling that I just wish this whole thing had just never happened to me, or any of us.

No. The effects of life events like this never go away. My brother, who's first wife was our family's first cautionary tale of the destructiveness of affairs, still bears the same wounds. It's a lot of up and down.

IC could possibly help. I feel that I'm in a place where I'm going to be good though. I'm not so depressed that I'm putting unloaded guns in my mouth and pulling the trigger, just to see if I can, anymore. I'm not planning elaborate suicides, like trebuchet-ing my body through the window of my XWW's AP's shop window during peak business hours (nucking futs crazy, I know). I can joke and laugh again. That first year was the hardest. About two years ago my friends told me that they hadn't seen, and that they missed, the old me. I told them that guy was dead. Well, he was more in a coma with a bad prognosis, I think. I'm not ready to be as light with life as I used to. News of my friends mistreating their wives and vice versa, especially with affairs, really gets to me. I do recover more quickly though. I remember a couple of weekends ago one of my friends and I were laughing our a$$es off at some stupid memes I'd found. It was like we were drunk, but we hadn't had any alcohol. I paused and realized that I hadn't had a laugh like that since before D-Day. Truth be told, I've found more value in forums like this and the ear of a good friend than any stranger with a degree can provide me. I'm not saying that IC or MC don't have value. Just that I've found what I think to be an adequate support system.

From time to time the X will try to converse with me. One word answers and awkward silence go a long way to stymie that crap though. One "gift" this whole thing has given me is the ability to say "good-bye" not just a simple "see ya later" to somebody I never thought I could.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> "I even specifically warned her about him, why I didn't trust the twat waffle, and asked her to never be alone with him because I don't believe a man and a woman are ever "just friends"."
> 
> IMO this is one of the WORST things a WS can do....and I think any BS who would try to R after a situation like this would be crazy.
> 
> ...


Just FYI, I'm still crazy :crazy:, and that was one of the things that would really grind my gears when I would lay awake at night, unable to sleep because my mind was going a million miles a minute obsessing over the damned affair.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "I even specifically warned her about him, why I didn't trust the twat waffle, and asked her to never be alone with him because I don't believe a man and a woman are ever "just friends"."
> 
> IMO this is one of the WORST things a WS can do....and I think any BS who would try to R after a situation like this would be crazy.
> 
> ...


That jumped out at me too..this was not the case of a clueless husband - he WARNED her and she still leaped. WTF is wrong with people? Really WTF is wrong? They take relatively happy homes and turn them into sad and tragic ones for what exactly? Some ego kibbles and some strange. his wife deserves any unhappiness that comes her way - she has earned every last ounce of it..I've read of other situations where the husband caught his wife in an EA and he confronted her and guess what - she still slept with the guy anyway. I don't get it.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Thank you for the compliments. I'd say I'm happy to share, but it's hard to shake the feeling that I just wish this whole thing had just never happened to me, or any of us.
> 
> No. The effects of life events like this never go away. My brother, who's first wife was our family's first cautionary tale of the destructiveness of affairs, still bears the same wounds. It's a lot of up and down.
> 
> ...


Yeah that is the unfairness of infidelity - you have the scars and your wife just walks away scott free. I do hope her guilt, if she has any, weighs her down and effects her life as yours has been effected. she deserves nothing but misery for the misery she has caused.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

@Retribution One more thing - let me say this to you and to any other BS loud and clear . *NO CHEATING POS IS WORTH YOUR LIFE. * Got it? Why end the one life you have over a flawed, vile broken human being? They are not worth it.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Truthseeker1 said:


> @Retribution One more thing - let me say this to you and to any other BS loud and clear . *NO CHEATING POS IS WORTH YOUR LIFE. * Got it? Why end the one life you have over a flawed, vile broken human being? They are not worth it.


Agreed. Though at the time it seemed the only way to end the relentless pain. That's all I was interested in. I wished for the end of this life to just be...nothing. I didn't want an eternity with my memories in the afterlife. 

One day I was told by a very wise man what would happen to my kids emotionally, financially, and socially if I followed through with it. That's what kept me strong through the hard times.

ADD Moment. I really enjoy Howard's work, Truthseeker. He and Lovecraft have created some of my favorite stories and characters.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> Agreed. Though at the time it seemed the only way to end the relentless pain. That's all I was interested in. I wished for the end of this life to just be...nothing. I didn't want an eternity with my memories in the afterlife.
> 
> One day I was told by a very wise man what would happen to my kids emotionally, financially, and socially if I followed through with it. That's what kept me strong through the hard times.
> 
> ADD Moment. I really enjoy Howard's work, Truthseeker. He and Lovecraft have created some of my favorite stories and characters.


One more thing - and this is a lesson i'm learning about my own life - your life is YOUR creation - if it is miserable, happy..full of love, full of hate..it is YOUR choice...your ex-wife can not take that from you unless you let her.


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## ricky15100 (Oct 23, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> how long did it take for the feeling to wane?


About a month, perhaps it was this hysterical bonding I hear so much about, but attractiveness is so much more than just physical appearance, even though I still logically knew she was attractive, emotionally I found her repulsive.

It did help that she was utterly remorseless and blames me for her cheating


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

ricky15100 said:


> About a month, perhaps it was this hysterical bonding I hear so much about, but attractiveness is so much more than just physical appearance, even though I still logically knew she was attractive, emotionally I found her repulsive.
> 
> It did help that she was utterly remorseless and blames me for her cheating


Blame shifting is never sexy is it? >


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

The easiest and surest way to R as a betrayed spouse is if you had wayward tendencies yourself. If you were tempted here and there but just didn't act on it for fear of consequences, it's much easier to R. In my opinion, only those w pure thoughts surrounding sanctity of marriage can not R. It's just too much a shock to what they believed all their life. It causes cognitive dissonance and there is no way to change the cognition. So they must divorce and probably will never enter another serious relationship again. JMHO dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dude007 said:


> The easiest and surest way to R as a betrayed spouse is if you had wayward tendencies yourself. *If you were tempted here and there but just didn't act on it for fear of consequences,* it's much easier to R. In my opinion, only those w pure thoughts surrounding sanctity of marriage can not R. It's just too much a shock to what they believed all their life. It causes cognitive dissonance and there is no way to change the cognition. So they must divorce and probably will never enter another serious relationship again. JMHO dude
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you were tempted and didn't act on it I think it would make it even more difficult to R since you'd be wondering why you were able to resist and your spouse couldn't.


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Hell no, the consequences once the spouse goes wayward goes away. Meanwhile you have had to fight mightily your entire marriage to not cheat not knowing when you might break the other way and the harm that would ensue. So in reality it becomes a major relief of a demon you kept fighting. The wayward spouse might have even saved your life if you were so inclined. It's not uncommon for waywards to commit suicide. The point is the cognition is different than your standard bs and therefore it's quite easier to R. Especially if you D, date and do all the things you had only dreamed about before the betrayal. The betrayal itself then becomes insignificant as the outcome(call it compensation) is your dream.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Truthseeker1 said:


> If you were tempted and didn't act on it I think it would make it even more difficult to R since you'd be wondering why you were able to resist and your spouse couldn't.


I agree.

IMO for many in this situation, it is a death sentence for any respect the BS once had for the WS.

To KNOW what it takes to walk away, saying to yourself that you will never do that and hurt the person you love so much.

Only to then come to the realization that the WS couldn't or wouldn't do the same for you.

During our time together with my ex LTgf, there were two women who actively tied to engage me in a relationship and a few others who I suspect had an interest in me if I had been willing.

But I would never go there....I distanced myself from any woman who seemed too friendly, and refused contact with the women who had come on to me (both co-workers who I basically refused to talk to about anything unless it was absolutely necessary for school business).

When I busted my LTgf in the A, this fact just added to my rage and disgust with her.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> "I even specifically warned her about him, why I didn't trust the twat waffle, and asked her to never be alone with him because I don't believe a man and a woman are ever "just friends"."
> 
> IMO this is one of the WORST things a WS can do....and I think any BS who would try to R after a situation like this would be crazy.
> 
> ...


I haven't nor will ever be in an R situation with my stbx but I was one of those BS warning her against Mr perfect. I explained how he treats women, how many affairs he has had. Showed her the restraining orders others had against him etc etc. 

Not only had I warned her but my best friend tried, her boss told her to stay away from him as well as her coworkers. Of course she knew better and listened to only Mr perfects empty promises and her own broken ego.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

While I didn't have many opportunities to cheat after marriage, my largest temptation came before. I was at work and a very attractive married woman asked me to come home and watch movies alone with her. Oh, she said it was innocent, that we wouldn't be fooling around, and that she just wanted company. Despite the fact that I was stupid, 21, young, and horny, even then, I could tell that even if she was telling the truth it was only a recipe for disaster. Needless to say, within at least 2 years that woman was divorced.

My point is that I feel like I kind of belong to both camps of "those who are tempted and remained faithful" and "those who are never tempted". I don't think if I had leaned more either way that it would have made my XWW's affair any more or less painful. In fact, that very event where I said no to that married woman has crossed my mind so many times since this destruction has touched my life. It makes me angry when I think about the karma that I should have earned with that, only to have life blow up in my face. That's what I get for thinking that my good deeds could somehow counter the crap that others can and will do to me.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Dyokemm said:


> I agree.
> 
> IMO for many in this situation, it is a death sentence for any respect the BS once had for the WS.
> 
> ...


That is it in a nutshell..the betrayed worry about their partners cheaters worry abut their egos and their good times...hence one jumps into bed with someone else and one does not...


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Retribution said:


> While I didn't have many opportunities to cheat after marriage, my largest temptation came before. I was at work and a very attractive married woman asked me to come home and watch movies alone with her. Oh, she said it was innocent, that we wouldn't be fooling around, and that she just wanted company. Despite the fact that I was stupid, 21, young, and horny, even then, I could tell that even if she was telling the truth it was only a recipe for disaster. Needless to say, within at least 2 years that woman was divorced.
> 
> My point is that I feel like I kind of belong to both camps of "those who are tempted and remained faithful" and "those who are never tempted". I don't think if I had leaned more either way that it would have made my XWW's affair any more or less painful. In fact, that very event where I said no to that married woman has crossed my mind so many times since this destruction has touched my life. *It makes me angry when I think about the karma that I should have earned with that, only to have life blow up in my face. That's what I get for thinking that my good deeds could somehow counter the crap that others can and will do to me.*


Good deeds can not counter another persons bad character....


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> For me, it was as if his mask had come off, the second of the discovery.
> 
> I watched his face change right before my eyes in that moment, and it's remained the same ever since. All I can see is a reptile. And this is a good-looking man who is tall and slim and fit, dresses nicely, and is impeccably groomed.
> 
> ...


Catching up on this thread. My h confessed over the phone. He's been cheated on before by his first wife, and I sometimes wonder if he took the phone call route because he was at OW's and getting pressure to let the cat out of the bag, or if he wanted to avoid seeing my face and me having to see his. He saw my face when he said "I love you but I'm not in love with you," and he was anguished enough that I believed he was having some sort of mental health issue, since I'd seen evidence of it already for months.

But his face took on a completely visage when he sat on the back porch of my brother's house with me the day we buried my mother and decided that rather than avoid the texts from OW or block her number he'd reply. I've never seen him the same way again.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

TeddieG said:


> Catching up on this thread. My h confessed over the phone. He's been cheated on before by his first wife, and I sometimes wonder if he took the phone call route because he was at OW's and getting pressure to let the cat out of the bag, or if he wanted to avoid seeing my face and me having to see his. He saw my face when he said "I love you but I'm not in love with you," and he was anguished enough that I believed he was having some sort of mental health issue, seen I'd seen evidence of it already for months.
> 
> But his face took on a completely visage when he sat on the back porch of my brother's house with me the day we buried my mother and decided that rather than avoid the texts from OW or block her number he'd reply. * I've never seen him the same way again.*


That is understandable - how can you when they have betrayed you in such a vile cruel manner - what also drives me nuts is when the WS says " I never meant to hurt you" - what did you think sleeping with another person would do to me? Tickle?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Truthseeker1 said:


> That is understandable - how can you when they have betrayed you in such a vile cruel manner - what also drives me nuts is when the WS says " I never meant to hurt you" - what did you think sleeping with another person would do to me? Tickle?


The most empty feeling about whatever relationship you had with the cheater/WAS is after they choose to willing betray the marriage is that they don't even apologise for it. The most I ever got out of my ex was "I'm sorry you had to find out that way" (referring to me finding the photos and emails between her and APs), she never did apologize for the actual betrayal or for ending the marriage by leaving it. It's not that they are vile and repugnant, it's like they are not even a real person anymore, just a soulless visage in human form which you aren't really even capable of having any attachment to. Or at least that's how it was in my case.


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Lon said:


> The most empty feeling about whatever relationship you had with the cheater/WAS is after they choose to willing betray the marriage is that they don't even apologise for it. The most I ever got out of my ex was "I'm sorry you had to find out that way" (referring to me finding the photos and emails between her and APs), she never did apologize for the actual betrayal or for ending the marriage by leaving it. *It's not that they are vile and repugnant, it's like they are not even a real person anymore, just a soulless visage in human form which you aren't really even capable of having any attachment to. Or at least that's how it was in my case*.


A remorseless cheater should be treated like smelly trash - thrown out of the house immediately...there is no going back, no reconciling, no nothing - they have to go....


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Lon said:


> The most empty feeling about whatever relationship you had with the cheater/WAS is after they choose to willing betray the marriage is that they don't even apologise for it. The most I ever got out of my ex was "I'm sorry you had to find out that way" (referring to me finding the photos and emails between her and APs), she never did apologize for the actual betrayal or for ending the marriage by leaving it. It's not that they are vile and repugnant, it's like they are not even a real person anymore, just a soulless visage in human form which you aren't really even capable of having any attachment to. Or at least that's how it was in my case.


Heck I'd like her to at least admit the affair, an apology even an a lame one would probably give me a heart attack


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

honcho said:


> Heck I'd like her to at least admit the affair, an apology even an a lame one would probably give me a heart attack


Some people are incapable of taking 100% responsibility for their actions. Hell some spouses even after getting caught will not take 100% responsibility for their affair and will continue to blameshift until they go to their grave. Best to keep those type of people out of oyur life.


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## tripad (Apr 18, 2014)

will man ever reconcile after divorcing their cheating wives ?

If I date one , do I have to fear he will be seduce by the ex since they manage to stay friendly for the children's sake ?

well , i wont .


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

tripad said:


> will man ever reconcile after divorcing their cheating wives ?
> 
> *If I date one , do I have to fear he will be seduce by the ex since they manage to stay friendly for the children's sake ?*
> 
> well , i wont .


Staying friendly in order to co-parent does not mean being close to their ex - it just means being civil and having the abiity to carry on a decent conversation...that is it...


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Truthseeker1 said:


> Staying friendly in order to co-parent does not mean being close to their ex - it just means being civil and having the abiity to carry on a decent conversation...that is it...


This is correct. I abhor my X wife but I am civil to her for the sake of my children. I can't wait for the day I won't have to talk to her at all


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## Truthseeker1 (Jul 17, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> This is correct. I abhor my X wife but I am civil to her for the sake of my children. I can't wait for the day I won't have to talk to her at all


Being civil just makes it easier for you and healthier for the kids...


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