# May I have a minute of your time?



## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello everybody.
I'm going to do something, I thought I'd never do. Talk about my life, on the computer.
I married my high school sweetie. I've been with her longer, then I've been without. (I'm forty years old, been with her twenty four years.) I still love her. I still respect her, and have great admiration for her. She is a great woman.
My dilemma. We haven't been intimate with each other in over five years. Were both succesful, and we have no children. We planned on having kids, but, between careers, tragedys, and plain and simple, life, it never came to be.
I'm forty. I'm bored. I can hear the clock ticking. I'm not getting any younger. When we were intimate, it was good. I've known her for many years, and the intimacy, was never her thing. (I think that when we were intimate, it was her doing it just for my sake)
A while back just after my mother passed away, my wife was on a two week business trip. I ran into a good friend. She asked if my wife and I wanted to get together with her the next day. I stated that it would have to wait until my wife came back into town. O.k., I just re re read this, I'm babbling, let me get to the point. We got together. I was vulnerable. She knew it. She was understanding. She cared. She......I don't know, she just made me feel, like I haven't felt in years.
We are still friends. She knows about my dilemma. I feel strangely good, secure when I'm around her. We haven't been intimate, but, there has been a few times(wife is out of town a lot) where I shake on the inside when she's near...., and I haven't a clue why.
I've tried everything under the moon to rekindle my marriage. Truth be told, after all this time, I don't have the same intimacy feelings, that I once had.
Do I let time keep slipping by, and stay in this rut, or do I throw away what I have, and take a chance and explore what this short, short, I can still hear the clock ticking, life has to offer?
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Have a nice day.


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## voivod (Aug 7, 2008)

Francis24 said:


> Hello everybody.
> I'm going to do something, I thought I'd never do. Talk about my life, on the computer.
> I married my high school sweetie. I've been with her longer, then I've been without. (I'm forty years old, been with her twenty four years.) I still love her. I still respect her, and have great admiration for her. She is a great woman.
> My dilemma. We haven't been intimate with each other in over five years. Were both succesful, and we have no children. We planned on having kids, but, between careers, tragedys, and plain and simple, life, it never came to be.
> ...


who made a concious decision to end the intimacy?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

As I have stated many times, do not leave a marriage because of a new relationship. If you elect to end your marriage it should be because of your own terms and needs. Not to jump into another one. You have stated that you have tried all kinds of things to rekindle the intimacy. Please share with us those efforts to we can offer some suggestions and options. Also it is likely you are emotionally tied to this woman. An EA can severely damage one’s opinions and feelings toward your spouse. While this woman makes you feel good she may also be jading your vision of your wife. She may make you feel good but is likely further damaging your marriage. You have a twenty year marriage to a woman you obviously admire. You owe it to her to try and repair the marriage. She in turn needs to understand your needs for intimacy. This is a two was street. My advice is to end all contact with TOW and work on your marriage. Share more with us so we can try to help. Good luck.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

Before I answer you question, I would like to ask why the sex stopped.


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## carmaenforcer (Mar 7, 2008)

The reason you shake when this NEW lady is near is because of the obvious lack of sex, coupled with the fact that she is the only girl you've been with since you where what 14-15yo. 

There are no kids involved so you are free to move on without it affecting anyone you two, this is a great "ideal" situation, but remember 

"the grass is always greener". Not really though...

I say if the only "issue" with your current Wife is the lack of sex, it could be worse.


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## AZMOMOFTWO (Jun 30, 2008)

I hope I can offer some perspective having been on the other side of this aside from the sex issue. It dropped off for us but we were still intimate, just maybe once a week or maybe once every 2 weeks. Sex stops for a reason, think about why was it a conscious decision, did she not seem interested, did you lose interest? What happened? 

I'm a year younger than you, been with my husband 23 years. We have a great friendship and when things began to fall apart we weren't fighting, we were just slipping away. He became very depressed when this happened and he didn't want to deal with it so didn't talk to me. I sensed him pulling away and just put my guard up. Sex seemed more of an effort rather than just enjoying it. He even told me "I still love you but not as much as before and the passion is all but gone" I was devastated...but determine to fix it, not even sure if you could get passion back once it was gone. 

Meantime rather than commit to fixing it, another woman we both knew and were friends with sensed the weakness and pounced on it. She texted him, flattered him, she's a lot younger. At 41 he was pretty flattered that a much younger, attractive woman wanted him and thought its what he wanted and he had an affair. It made him more depressed and unhappy. He couldn't figure out why, he became angry and just turned in to someone I didn't know or like. 

That's when I decided I can't fix him but I can fix me regardless if this marriage works out or not. I was unhappy with how I looked, I got on to an exercise program which I still stick to in fact now its something I look forward to doing every day, a stress relief. I do it for me. I began to be proud of how I looked, I bought new clothes, cut my hair, people began to notice. My confidence was raised and that changed me. I then realized I needed to find other outlets to make me happy and got involved in some groups, made new friends basically moved on with my life (aside from dating, we were still under the same roof). He kept having his affair (I did not know it at the time) but he started coming back, connecting with me and being happy but at the same time extremely guilty...causing major mood swings in him. Then I found out and I asked him to leave. He wanted to reconcile and fix the damage. Long story but that's where we are, and he has been and remains 110% committed. 

We talk openly about this and I told him what hurt me most is when he told me the passion was gone and did not love me as much. He said now he realizes that was dead wrong, it just was dormant. Its why the other woman couldn't fulfill what he felt was missing and he now knows he did not do anything to maintain the relationship. It took something like an affair and me calling it quits to wake him up to what mattered most to him, that it never went away he just didn't see it. 

Part of what happened I think is when things got off track, he didn't want to deal with them. Instead he'd convince me he was happy and all was good. At first it was little things but continued to grow and the chasm widened. So rule #1 is open communication. When the connection started coming apart neither of us was in to sex as much as before. Now we have reconnected and we are intimate 3-4 times a week without any conscious effort to do so. 

It sounds like you have loss some of that connection with her and the only reason why that other woman is interesting is she is different but that will wear off and you will be left with nothing. 

You said you still love her, respect and admire her and I assume she feels the same way for you so you do have something left to save. I don't know what you have done so far to change things but first try to establish better communication. Don't put her on the defensive, just talk, open up tell her how you feel and how this concerns you. Now get out of the rut. Plan a date night, do this once a week. Find some place different each time, something totally unique. Surprise her. By her flowers for no reason. How did you make her fall in love with you to begin with? You probably talked a lot about things that matter to you, interest you, your hopes desires etc. I bet you don't do that anymore and neither does she. Remember how you had fun with her when you first met? Bring that back again. If something is still there, you can reignite it. If not, you have to resolve these issues to have a successful relationship in the future.


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## brad (Jul 31, 2008)

Your intoxicated with your new feelings. Dont let that be your barometer to end your marriage. Get your feet back on the ground and deal first with your marriage. Mabe it's a sign that you need to end it or work on it.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you voivod, Amplexor, M.Twain, carmaenforcer, Azmomoftwo, and brad, for your input.
I don't know why it feels wrong that I talk about this. I guess I do not want my wife to find out.
Anyway...to answer some questions some of you had.
M.Twain. I can only guess why we aren't intimate anymore. ...and I can guess pretty good. First, she never liked sex. As I stated before, I believe she only did it to satisfy my needs. About six years ago, we had a tragedy. We mourned, time went by. No intimacy. She used that for a while. .....It is very difficult to put into words what I am thinking. I'll try some more......She is always stressed over her work. She loves her work. She is one of the few people that I know,that are changing this world to be a better place.....nevertheless, she brings home a great deal of stress.......She is away, more than she is home......She thinks most men are repulsive.....all excuses, she just doesn't like it....someone hit a menopausal switch? I'll never fully understand. 
You can imagine how willing I am(it has been a long time) to be intimate. She even jokes about it....
carmaenforcer. I do know that the grass is greener on the other side. I feel the anxiety, anticipation that I have. In a matter of seconds(no pun intented), it would be over, and I know that I would feel that I sold my soul, for a desire. 
azmomoftwo. You have a great story. I am happy for you. We still do date nights....they just don't end the way I want them to.
She is not a catholic. She does not believe she needs to be intimate in our marriage.
My lady friend spoke unkind only once about my wife. Eventhough she stated a obvious truthful point, I informed her I didn't appreciate it....you see, I think that is what is bothering me a bit, because my friend speaks the truth.
I'm new to computers, and this place. I have read some other postings, and I do realize, how minor my dilemma is.....but you know what, ....my dilemma concerns me, so, it is important to me. I don't know if I'm willing to accept having another forty years with no intimacy. Life is short, and who knows, when I turn eighty, it probally won't work....tick, tock.
I would never trade love for sex.......why is my friend giving me so much love.
Thank you again for letting me bend your ears.


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## magicsunset08 (Oct 30, 2008)

Tell her what you told us. Tell her how great she is--that you love her--you want intimacy. If she is not interested--move on. I personally believe if it was once there, it can be again. If she doesn't think so, you have your answer. I would be lonely also, if my wife were gone alot. Some people can use this to grow stronger in their relationship. I would not give up, unless you have no other choice. I know what you want and you want it with your wife, but if you can't have it with your wife you will "settle" for someone else. Good luck.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

Have you heard the phrase, charity begins at home?

Your wife needs to. If she can save the whole world, but not her own marriage, it's a pity. I would suggest not bothering to try to get her to change. Leave her to save the world, while you work on yourself. And when you are ready you can find another woman.

You say you would never trade love for sex. Marital love can't exist apart from sex. You have recently made that realization, but I sense you are still clinging to the last vestiges of denial.

It's shocking that you have not been intimate for 5 years, and she thinks that's OK. What I would like to know is, how did you allow her to do this? Why didn't you leave after the first year or two?

Just for the record, I would not like to live in the kind of world she is creating. A sexless world is a boring world. By the way, I could give you techniques to get her interested in sex, but I don't think it's worth it, and you probably don't have the strength.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello.
My wife left today for a week. More promises.
We reaqlly do have a wonderful relationship/life. Just no intimacy.
Magicsunset08- I tell her often, what I have written down. Our relationship does not lack love. 
MTwain. Each day, becomes once a week, once a month, every other month,........anniversaries,...five years. Maybe six. I guess I let it happen. I tried though. She gets upset, angry, just plain ole in a bad mood when I persist.
Some days a life of celibacy, with her is something I think I'd accept. Some days, no way. This is a defining time in my life. I do not want to be hasty.
It sure does help to vent. Have nice days.


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## Jenni (Nov 30, 2008)

What you had was a moment of weakness and what made matters worse was the lack of romance in your life. This might be a wake up call that if you guys don't do something about it, your relationship will be threatened. Just be careful, don't confuse your boredom in your marriage with real interest in another woman. What you might be experiencing is just lust. I would sit down and have a talk with the wife but don't mention your childhood friend because she will never believe that nothing happened between you two and you might cause more damage to your relationship that good.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

The thought of a celibate marriage to me is a thing of disgust. especially as many people who subject their spouses to it are having a secret affair. They often hid under the husband's (or wife's) assumption that they couldn't possibly sink to such depths, being Christian and all. 

Yet your wife fits the bill perfectly. She is often away, she may have several lovers in several cities.

Obviously sex does not mean much to you - consciously at least. But this state of affairs will gradually eat away at your self esteem until you feel that no other woman would want you. At that point you will be trapped - condemned to stay with her for fear of finding even less love.

I am not making this up, I am quoting form multiple cases, that would make you shudder. The main thing it says to me is that you have developed an unhealthy co-dependant relationship. you say she loves, you, but she is not nurturing you. Her actions are chipping away at your human soul.

However, you are permitting it, so the fault lies completely with you.


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## Jenni (Nov 30, 2008)

I agree with Mark. He is soooo right. When you have a mate who does not fulfill your emotional and physical needs you get trapped in a dilemma. Do you go out and look for someone else or do you stay faithful and lose your self esteem day by day? What worries me about Francis is that it is very easy to fall for someone when you are starving for attention and then three months later you wonder what the heck you are still doing with that other person,


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## brenda (Jun 27, 2008)

I think that you need to get a little more serious about talking to your wife about your relationship problems. Just because she gets angry about discussing your sex issues, doesn't mean she doesn't have to. I would suggest making an appointment with someone, and ask her to join you. Even if she wont join you, it would do you some good to help work out your feelings. PLEASE STOP talking to the other woman!! If this came out as the reason your relationship of over 20 years ended, it woud be a very sad day.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you everybody for your thoughts.
I do not like what I read.
The truth hurts.
I don't have much to say now. Just thinking.....I'll do some marriage counselor investigating.
Thanks again Mark Twain, Brenda, Jenni, and all who gave their input.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

If I may say so, you're barking up the wrong tree. It's you who need the counseling. Until you can unravel yourself from the co-dependency that is going on in your marriage, you will never be firm enough to make the legitimate demands that are the right of a married man.

When a man marries, he forsakes all others. Meaning he expects to get his sexual needs met by his wife. You are staying faithful, but not getting anything in return. The fact that you have let this go on for so long either means you have no sex drive to speak of or self esteem so low, no-body would notice you if they passed you on the street.

I really hope you gain the courage to discover your full potential. I don't know if your marriage to this very selfish woman can be fixed, but I do know that you have the power to begin the process of fixing yourself.

Once that is well underway, you will find one of two things happening:

1)You wife will want to tackle the sex issue.

or...

2)You will move on.

In my opinion, it would be wrong of you go to couples counseling at the moment. You are just too weak. You need to build up your strength. Stop being a doormat. Before people can thrive in a state of "togetherness", they need to have already gotten a good sense of who they are as individuals. You seem to think that only your wife can control your level of happiness. That's because you have given her that control. Time to wrest it back. 

Don't discuss any of this with her, you don't need her opinion of "you". Just get on with the task, of quietly working on you.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello Mark Twain.
I appreciate your help. You seem to be very good, at relationships. I do think your incorrect about a few things. Of course, you only can see the picture I have painted.
I am a confident person. Successful. Decent amount of self esteem. An above average amount of sex drive.(some days I feel like my body is going to explode) Trust me. I have never had trouble making new friends. Male, or female. I'm a very patient person. Too patient when it comes to throwing down the gauntlet with my wife over the sex issue.
As I stated before, the sex was never my wifes favorite thing to do. Even when we were dating, twenty four years ago, it was not her thing. I accepted that, for that time being. I thought I could change things a bit, and, for a while, we did some different things. She has only done those for me.
I could tell her tomorrow that I want to be intimate, and most likely, in the next few days, after pulling a few teeth, she would oblige......where is the fun in that?....not to make a joke over this, but, how can I enjoy being intimate, if she isn't into it.
I am dependent of my wifes love. It makes me feel good, to make her feel good. If she is slacking somewhere in her life, I am there to pick her slack up. She has always said that I'm one of a kind, and ...you know what....I agree..........but,..now I'm at where I am at. Intitially, when I started talking to you folks on the computer, I mentioned how I felt, when around my good lady friend. That is a current huge dilemma.
I'm hoping a marriage counselor can give us ideas that will change the way my wife views having sex.
I'm afraid that I'm going to have to make a decision.. 
Hope I was coherent enough to paint a better picture. Have a nice day.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Your lady friend is a tempation that your marriage could do without at the moment.

Have you ever talked to your wife about the lack of sex in your marriage having a huge impact on how you've been feeling? That it is a need you can't imagine going another 5 or 40 years without? She may need to see how important and serious this is to you because at this point she may be thinking you are okay with the current situation & if it got to the point where you are thinking of moving on, she needs to know where your mind is at.

Has she ever done anything to fnd out why she has no sexual drive? Hormonal screening? Childhood trauma? Does she have sexual thoughts/fantasies at all?


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## MsLady (Dec 1, 2008)

Here's what I think: Ask your wife for a trial separation. I know that sounds really scary to do, but like you said, tick tock. You need time on your own to sort things out. During that time, if you need to explore new experiences with other women or your lady friend, you can do so without the guilt of cheating on your wife. I bet your head will clear with that. You'll either feel great about your new-found independent life or you'll be eager to return home to your wife. What SHE will do and feel is unpredictable, but it will be very informative for you as well. It will be her chance to make changes as well and sort out how much she wants you. Afterall, if she could be fine with no sex for five years, I'm thinking you're just like a buddy to her. You can always be buddies without being married. But it's hard to be married without having sex.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thank you swedish, and mslady.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

I am convinced your wife is having an affair or a string of affairs. She sees you as timid and uninteresting, sexually. I think she is having her fun, while pretending she has gone off sex. Hiding behind the cloak of respectability is exactly how a woman of this sort operates. the sort of woman who you would never suspect, has the perfect alibi. Even if she is not having an affair, the fact that you are the sort of man who would put up with this without any real resistance shows that you *are* timid. It's your life, but I would love to see you have more fun.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello M.Twain.
I respect your point of view....and I understand it. 
I disagree.
The "sort of man" that I am, is caring and understanding which is why I show a little reisistance. A difference between "timid", and caring/understanding.
If you were correct in regards to the affair idea, then I would have to be blinder than a bat, and my wife, an oscar nominee.
My wife despises men. She thinks that all men are disgusting, chauvinistic and perverted. She deals with the worse kind on a daily basis.
M.Twain. I sincerely do appreciate you taking the time to express your opinions. There has been things you've said, that hit home, and the heart. Disagreeing doesn't mean inappreciativeness. 
.....and there will be a day, when I will, have more fun.

Thanks again.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

I know you are proud of your wife helping others in her line of work, but it sounds as though it has spilled into her personal life if that is what changed her view of men (surely she did not think this way when she married you?) Do you speak about this with her? It sounds like she would benefit by spending more time with you and other couples where the man is a steady, solid force as she seems to have lost sight of the fact that those she deals with are the exception.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24 said:


> She thinks that all men are disgusting, chauvinistic and perverted.


Including you?


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Thanks again swedish, MTwain.
Swedish. It has spilled over into our marriage. Choices. I guess I choose to be here. She chooses to continue her line of work, saving the world, making it a better place. Choices. She has sacrificed her outlook, humor, and a whole bunch of other positive fun human qualities, to do what she does. I adore her for that.
Twain. She always tells me that I'm one of the few great men around. She tells me how handsome I am. She does compliment me much, in many ways. My mother did raise a good son.(all smiles here)
So,.....I have love. I don't have intimacy.
Sometimes we awake in the middle of the night and hold each other tight, snuggle, talk, share life.
I stopped seeing our friend. I'm sure the next time we/I do, I'll start re evaluating where I'm at again.
Thanks again for letting me bend your ears.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

> My wife despises men. She thinks that all men are disgusting, chauvinistic and perverted. She deals with the worse kind on a daily basis.


I had a g/f many years ago who worked at woman's aid. She used to give me a hard time about being a man. Then she got a job at "rape crisis", then things got really bad. She "made me" read her old copies of Spare Rib - a feminist man-hating magazine. In the end I left her, I just could not take the rejection of myself and my gender. 22 years later, she is single, and can't seem to find a man to settle down with.

For some reason, you seem to want to have the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused, which is what she is doing to you. (I can prove this, but you would not like it). But you are lapping it up, so you are totally co-dependent. I feel your mother did not bring you up as well as you say. You have zero self respect. Your whole world view is inverted. Look at the title of this thread. "May I have a minute of your time?". Everyone else on this forum just demand attention and get it, yet even though you are more deserving than most, you feel the need to apologise in advance.

We are here to help, we are dying to help you.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

I had a g/f many years ago who worked at woman's aid. She used to give me a hard time about being a man. Then she got a job at "rape crisis", then things got really bad. She "made me" read her old copies of Spare Rib - a feminist man-hating magazine. In the end I left her, I just could not take the rejection of myself and my gender. 22 years later, she is single, and can't seem to find a man to settle down with.

For some reason, you seem to want to have the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused, which is what she is doing to you. (I can prove this, but you would not like it). But you are lapping it up, so you are totally co-dependent. I feel your mother did not bring you up as well as you say. You have zero self respect. Your whole world view is inverted. Look at the title of this thread. "May I have a minute of your time?". Everyone else on this forum just demand attention and get it, yet even though you are more deserving than most, you feel the need to apologise in advance.

We are here to help,


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Happy Friday to all.
Hello Mtwain.
You are incorrect on your points of view,...again.
Not on any level, do I want the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused. By not having intercourse, she probally does realize I'm being effected, but, I don't think she realizes what emotional damage she is causing, by not being intimate.
I can't understand why anybody would want those types of abuse. 
Back to the "self-respect" issue you claim I have. 
I have much self esteem. I would not want to trade lifes with anybody. I'm a good husband, brother, worker, friend. I believe integrity, and moral character, are important human qualities. I judge, and want to be judged, upon those. I love who I am.
Nothing like gushing over ones self. (smiles)
Now, where you totally missed the dartboard: 
"May I have a minute of your time" 
A polite wording of asking people I do not know, if it is "possible" ("may I?"="is it possible?") to have a minute of their time.
..............actually I'm starting to know some of you, and you folks are rubbing off on me.

In some cases you can demand a favor. In my case, I's inapropriate.

Somehow I posted your reply above MTwain.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24 said:


> Hello Mtwain.
> You are incorrect on your points of view,...again.
> Not on any level, do I want the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused. By not having intercourse, she probally does realize I'm being effected, but, I don't think she realizes what emotional damage she is causing, by not being intimate.


Francis...

Firstly let me say, you may have as many minutes of my time as you can bear. If I can help you open even one eye, I will die a happy man. Truly.

I am going to ask a favour of you now. I want you to have an open mind.

I'm going to pick just one thing you said, and analyse it:



> Not on any level, do I want the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused.


Followed by:



> I can't understand why anybody would want those types of abuse.



What I am saying is that you must *want* the abuse, because you neither tackle her over it, nor leave. I am coming from the point of view of taking responsibility for the lives we lead.

So when I find my life becomes difficult, I look to see what it is that I am doing to create that difficulty in my life. The reason I try to hold myself responsible rather than others is simple efficiency. If I believe my problems are my wife's fault, then I am powerless to solve them. If I believe my difficulties are my own creation, then I have total power to solve them.

This is my gift to you. This simple knowledge.

When I argue with my wife, I always blame her at first. Then when I have calmed down, I search for the truth. The truth that comes from the question "How did I create the problem?"

The reason that other woman is making you shake in her presence is that your entire nervous system is crying out for something that is good for you, that you are not getting.

So I ask you to answer you own rhetorical question:


> I can't understand why anybody would want those types of abuse.


Francis,

It's been 5 years...


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Good morning.
Mtwain. I do not want the abuse, because I am currently trying to "tackle" this dilemma. When I started this thread I mentioned I was forty, time is ticking, and life is too short to be missing out on things that are important to me. Your shaking your head right now, mummering "five years" under your breath....This is my life. My wife is precious to me. I want to make a good decision. I don't want to hurt her, yeah, I know, this is about me, for me, but, still, this is the way I am. I will gladly lay my body down, so she can walk over the glass. That is just the way I am.
Let me paint more of a picture, maybe this has relevance. She is gone more than half the time. Probally closer to sixty five percent. I love it when she is here. I love it when she is not here. I love my freedom, my lifestyle. All I need now, is a little.....
Your correct. Shaking, quivering the way I did with my friend, and not being able to fulfill the physical, and emotional need that I have.......is...total abuse.
....and you are correct again, in stating, that we are responsible for our own situations. Yes, I did let this happen. I have not fixed it. This is very tough for me.
I am where I am. It's not a question if my marriage is worth thirty seconds of pleasure. I do not know what the question is, in fact, I don't know where the hell I'm at right now,....in life, in marriage, in,...anything. All I know is that life is short. 
What do I do, what do I do.....
Until another day.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis, forgive me. I have been hard on you, for two reasons:

Firstly out of love for a fellow human being in a tough spot. 

Secondly, when I read threads like yours, I experience it as if it is happening to me. It hurts! But I know what little I feel is only a fraction of what you are experiencing. It is my pleasure to share in your pain, but I would be even happier if you found a solution.

I have spent some time on the wording of all this, please humour me be reading it very slowly. Then re-read it. It is hard for me to convey how much I care about you by typing alone, I am more of a vocal person. I never meant to make you feel criticized.



Francis24 said:


> What do I do, what do I do.....


I can't answer that directly.



Francis24 said:


> My wife is precious to me. I want to make a good decision. I don't want to hurt her, yeah, I know, this is about me, for me, but, still, this is the way I am. I will gladly lay my body down, so she can walk over the glass.


Again, attempting to reach into your mind... it seems as if your view of her is as *a woman who requires you to make this bodily sacrifice daily*. Look at the metaphor you are using involving glass and laying on it for her! It sounds a violent as the situations her work takes her into.

If you have no kids, you could just walk out of the door one day, and leave another to take up the mantle of your task. It could be that if you said to her, you just can't take it any more, and she could see you meant it, she would relent. But she would probably seek revenge. Imagine you then had sex and you got her pregnant - if she is of child bearing age - then you would be trapped for ever, she could treat you how she liked, and, because of your high level of integrity, you would never leave.

However, if you discuss it with her, but you waiver, she will sense it, and use every trick of speech to make you back down - for another 5 years. 

I talked to my wife about your case, and she said that your problem is that you want her just as she is, but with the addition of sex. But that is not her and you. You are longing for something that she has no intention of giving. You have to see her as she really is - repulsed at the thought of your penis entering her - and decide if you want to continue or not.



Francis24 said:


> yeah, I know, this is about me, for me


Yes. There is confusion in your mind about who or what you are. There is too much in the mix. Have you got a sane married person to talk to, one with a good marriage where there is regular sex?


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## lostluv (May 12, 2008)

Francis,

A couple of questions for you to ponder:

1.) If you have such a wonderful, supportive, and loving relationship with your wife how is it she could "not know" you are in need of the sexual relationship you are missing? How is it you can not, or will not, discuss this with her? 

2.) If all men are basically pigs and unworthy in her eyes, how does she feel about women? Does she have female friends she is particularly fond of or close to? How does she interact with them?

I understand what you are saying about being polite and well mannered. However, this does not have to equal just rolling over and giving in all of the time. Your feelings need to be concidered too.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

My heart goes out to you, Francis. My husband is also the uninterested one, I know how hard it is. I don't know that you need to be chilvarous and lay yourself down for your lady if she's abusing it. 

I am going to ask a very impolite question - is there any way weight can be an issue? I have a friend who loves her husband in every other way, but he is severely overweight. She pointed me to myfatspouse.com, and it was a real eye opener. If that's not it I apologize for suggesting it.

Her frequent travels are very suspicious to me as a woman. The staleness that inevitably undermines long-time monogamy tends to be relieved if you don't see your partner even for short stretches of time. The fact that even then she does not want to have sex speaks volumes.

She probably laments the fact that she did not have the chance to explore sexuality and multiple men/relationships. I know I would have had I married as young as you two did. Just an observation - could also be off the mark, of course.

Mark Twain, I am a bit puzzled - Francis24's wife is repulsed, but why? If their relationship is great in every other way, why would that be? I suppose it can be to keep him for her own selfish use.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Angry Andromeda said:


> I suppose it can be to keep him for her own selfish use.


She works with abused women all day, like the ex g/f I mentioned earlier in this thread. Even if she felt like relenting, the constant involvement with these people and the kind of people who run these organizations would re-galvanize her. When my ex got a job at "rape crisis", that was the last straw for us - that and having "Spare Rib" magazines - all the back issues thrown in my face, and being told to read them.


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## Angry Andromeda (Dec 20, 2008)

Wow, then she really needs to get some counseling and take care of herself. I saw a lot of friends burnout from nonprofit work. Ig it has gotten to the point where it's affecting her marriage, then you can bet she is not as effective and emotionally sturdy as she should be, and her clients would suffer too. 

Mark Twain, not every woman would react like your g/f did. She sounds quite immature, so probably did you a favor. I am sure it was hard, but now you sound so much better off.

I know when I read about batterers and the attempt to rehabilitate them, I grow more appreciative of how considerate and loving my husband is. Of course as women we should not expect less, but all the same evil and the corruption of power is latent in all of us, and we should give our kudos to those who stay free of it as much as possible. (And I am not a Christian, either.)


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello to everyone. I have returned. Should of mentioned to you good people that I was going on vacation for a couple of weeks.
Hope no one thought I was jumping of a bridge.
. ..and I come back to very nice, heartfelt posts. 
Mtwain. You even mentioned my situation to your wife. Wow. Thank you.....and by no means did I think you were hard on me. 
Now, the kicker. Sit down for this one. You asked me if I knew of any sane friends, with a healthy marriage,that I could consult with. Most of my/our friends, consult with me, or my wife. They view us as a model, stable, platform of a marriage. I know, I know,...that is insane in itself. People assume, when you have a certain number of years of marriage under your belt.
lostluv. Thank you for responding. Your first question. She does know, and I have discussed this with her. If you read back on this thread, I have talked about that. In regards to your second question. She has many female friends, and a few good male friends. 
Angru Andromeda. Thanks for the heartfelt greeting. That was not an impolite question. We're both in good shape, eat and live healthy lifestyles. 
Her occupation requires her to be certain places, at certain times. Everybody, if there is one thing I know, it is, she is not having an affair. Sometimes, I take vacation days, and travel with her. Seeing her in action would gain anybodys praise. She is in the public much, an affair would ruin part of her career,...that she has worked hard for....that we,.. we, have worked hard for.
Happy belated holidays to everyone.
This is what it is like for me:
So,.......we are on vacation. Left the below zero temperatures, to find sunshine. Good food. Good people. Good wine. Everything is perfect. Good moods all day, all around......later in the evening, in our room,...more wine......kiss, kiss, nuggle, nuggle,....I say: (always a running dialogue with us. Years ago, we did have intimacy on special occassions) "you owe me a little sugar for my birthday." She presses me once, and turns her back to me.(To further explain: for a long time after we stopped being intimate, she would take care of my needs with her hand...I do not mean this to sound rude, dirty, or degrating......, then a long time after that stopped, she would allow us to, ...bump and grind, until I was..... satisfied.(an ugly word) ...anyway where was I, anyway, she allowed me to do whatever I had to do that night, more bumping and grinding, to fulfill my need. That is as intimate, as it gets for me.
Mtwain. Your wife summed it up quite simply, and accurately. 
Reading from my marriage excuse list, I see my busy work schedule shall occupy my time to keep my marriage ship from rocking........for now.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

I'm heartbroken to read your last post. First it degenerated to hand-jobs, then you got her arse to rub against, now you have to beg for even that.

I think the principle here is that she respects your masculinity about as much as you do. I'm almost on the verge of tears as I write this.

As an aside, I must say that I've always thought that a woman who gives regular handjobs to a husband she does not want sex with is at least thinking of him and his needs. How often was it happening, and why did that stop?



Francis24 said:


> Hello Mtwain.
> You are incorrect on your points of view,...again.
> Not on any level, do I want the experience of being sexually and emotionally abused. By not having intercourse, she probally does realize I'm being effected, but, I don't think she realizes what emotional damage she is causing, by not being intimate.
> I can't understand why anybody would want those types of abuse.
> ...


It strikes me as strange that you have chosen not to let her know "what emotional damage she is causing". I wonder why that is, and why you continue to put up with it.

By shoving her butt in your direction as a "treat" on special occasions, she appears to be treating that aspect of you with utter utter contempt. By having to beg even for that, you show you are beneath, even her contempt.

However, that's how it seems to me. I would run screaming from a marriage like yours. But you may see it differently. Is that so?


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

Hey Francis! :smthumbup:

When you described your marriage to me, no offence, but for an inlking I thought you were talking about friendship. You may be willing to move the stars for your wife, you may be willing to lay down your body to let her move over the glass , you may be willing to do many things for her... but if there is no sexual passion *between* you occuring and being consummated, it is not quite a 'marriage'. It is just a strong friendship.

What differentiates marriage from a friendship? Sternberg sums it up pretty well in his triangular theory of love:









You see the one in the middle? Intimacy + Committment + *Passion*. This is a marriage. Passion means sexuality, the nuptial act. If it is only going one way (from you to your wife) then only one of you is in the marriage. You have intimacy and committment, but no passion = no marriage.

Which brings me to my next point... your wife may be asexual. No, I'm not talking about ameoba here p) I am talking about a sexual orientation like heterosexual or homosexual. You are an example of the former. I am an example of the latter. Your wife sounds like the archetype of n *asexual*. No sex drive, or a virually non-existant sex drive. This essentially means that celibacy is perfectly normal... for her. Not for you.

Now, I have a friend who is asexual, who dated quite a lot of 'sexual' people. It ALWAYS ended in disaster. One person wanted, essentially, a best friend, and the other wanted a spouse. They are two very different things (although you can of course be both at the same time).

I feel sorry for your wife. She probably doesn't even know what asexuality is. However, asexuals are NOT cut out for marriage, as we have already established marriage MUST have sexual passion present from both spouses, and this is the very thing asexuals lack. Friendship, not marriage, would be the ultimate relationship for a woman like your wife.

You would do well to 'gently' introduce the idea of asexuality to your wife. I can't tell you how to do this, since you know her best. Your wife may not be asexual. But, to be quite frank, then if she is not asexual, then what is she? Delibrately celibate? In a marriage with a red-blooded male? Something doesn't add up here. Sounds like asexuality to me, mate. 

If you want to know more about asexuality, go here:
Asexual Visibility and Education Network - Home

On a concluding note:
A sexual and an asexual in a symetrical relationship together when they both desire fundamentally different things? Um... I smell doom on the horizon. 

Peace,
Alex Fider


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hey Francis, You sound seem to be so articulate, and from your posts, I can't get why any woman wouldn't be jumping into bed with you. Women love thoughtful men. Anyway, I Am a Christian, (silly right? I suppose I shouldn't admit that, it's such a stigma nowadays.....how could I be so fooled right? anyway... haha....) 

At any rate, I am going to say something you might not expect from someone like me. I think you ought to listen to all the good advice you've gotten on here, as all of the posters have good points, some differing, but all on the same general page. This is Wrong, and you can't just do this forever, think of yourself, and your happiness which your wife is slowly but surely stealing from you, even if it's in a nice way.... 

It truly doesn't matter how good of a friend she is to you, or how well she does her job, or how amazing of a person she is. She is not married to you. Can you not see that? I agree with Alex Fider, she is definitely either struggling with some sort of sexual identity problem, or is what he described as Asexual. I suppose that might be totally possible. I can't figure what else it might be. 

However, I am wondering, if there is perhaps some sort of trauma, or rape, or horrible experience that she had in her life before she met you, that she has kept only to herself and never told you. Perhaps she's turned off by sex because she was damaged by it somehow? Mentally, this is just not right. My hubby and I have an issue with sex right now, but we haven't gone years! I do know my hubby's problem is partly hormonal , not enough Testosterone, so I try to be patient with him. Also I tend to think it's cause I'm a bit chunky, a size 8/10 , not fat, but not thin either, and of course that's a Totally shallow, non-intelligent way to think about someone, since we all know beauty fades, dumb is forever. But for some shallow people, it can be an issue. 
But if I initiate and tease him, he can , please excuse the term, get it up, and get into the moment, and then it's great sex, just doesn't happen that often (maybe 1 time a month). But even when you're playing and doing the romance thing, she pushes you away, and you're right when you say she is disgusted by it, that's exactly what it sounds like from the way you describe it. Twain is right when he says that you just can't have a marriage, without the sex/passion/ intimacy part of the equation. What you have is a good friend. And dont' get me wrong, a good friend in a marriage is truly necessary to make it work, But So Is Physical Love..... Since you knew she wasn't in to sex from the start, as you stated in your first posts, then perhaps you have to accept part of the blame here, for getting into something that you knew in the long run wouldn't make you fulfilled. Having said that, I don't condone divorce, who does? And this most certainly doesn't sound like it's your fault. She sounds like she has a real problem with sex, and I think it might run very deep. But realistically, you can't go on like this forever. What she is doing to you, is just plain cruel. She is not , as they say, holding up her end of the bargain. And your admiration for her, and her career choice is lovely, but a marriage, that does not make. Why should you have to be humiliated like that? And practically beg for some bumping or grinding or, hand job, which she won't even do now. 
I'm going to get bold here, what about a blow job? Seriously. Will she do that for you? I love to do that for my husband, it's not something I see as gross, dirty, or anything but a loving act of sexual love. How does she feel about that? I am guessing no. At any rate, I feel for you. I think you need to sit her down, even though I'm sure you've already tried this, and tell her she's hurting you, and that you're having feelings of wanting to find physical love elsewhere. I wouldn't cheat, as it's a low down thing to do, and only makes matters worse, but if she can't get help for whatever is eating at her, and start being a wife to you again, then I'd hit the road. That's my honest opinion. She needs professional help. What she is putting you through is, cruel and abusive. Please don't misinterpret what I mean, she is not purposely abusing you, as someone how hits his wife or husband, but she is abusing you. And when you say that she is repulsed by men,, well, that says to me, that she has some Serious serious psychological issues. And if she can't separate her work, and what she sees men do every day, from her loving husband, and realize you're a good man, well then what have you but a hopless situation? Fact is, you're a man , and there's not much you can do about that, and if she didn't want a man, and want to pleasure her man, then she shouldn't have gotten married. What she is doing to you is Totally selfish on her part. I dont' think she can see your point of view. If she can't give you love,, in Every way, then she ought to be a big girl, and let you go, so you can find a woman who will. Think, pray, meditate, whatever you have to do, but don't stand for this forever, it will damage who you are inside. Good luck. Blessings Always....


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## Guest (Jan 6, 2009)

marina72 said:


> However, I am wondering, if there is perhaps some sort of trauma, or rape, or horrible experience that she had in her life before she met you, that she has kept only to herself and never told you. Perhaps she's turned off by sex because she was damaged by it somehow?


Good call. If this is the case, helping her overcome this goes beyond the sex desire issue.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Read, re read.
Thank you everybody. Again.
Your giving me, more than I wanted, to ponder. This was not suppose to be this difficult. Many truths written. One at a time, for me. I could see myself being brash, and hasty. That is/was, always an option.

MarkTwain. In my own ways, I have let her know that this intimate-less marriage, is causing damage. From experience, I know if my wife entertains a negative thought, she could dwell, and become depressed. I think, over the years, she has learned to push aside such thoughts. Yes, it hurts. I've been pushed aside.
In the grand scheme of time, this past year, and the year to come, are very small parts of my life. Important parts. One life. I have taken steps to confront these issues. Everyday I awake, this dilemma is eating at my heart and soul. I do not use those words lightly.

marina72. I owe my marriage a chance. You mentioned "forever" a couple times. I'm restless. This will not go on forever. It will come to a boil. I was raised a catholic. Former altar boy. Yes, we Christians have taken a bad rap. When we were dating and experimenting, once she (is there a nicer word for blowjob?)..anyway once. 

Thinking out loud.
Maybe something(trauma) did happen to her. She wouldn't tell me, knowing the way I would react.

Then there is this Alex Fider guy. (Nice to meet you, and thank you for your response)
Looked up the definition of asexual. That makes sense. 
I've seen my wife blush when interacting with lesbians. This thought has occured to me on several occassions. Are my thoughts on specific(is she a lesbian) events, paranoia, or, legitimate questions.

Understand this. I'm forty one years old. I've been with my wife the past twenty four years. You can't imagine how I feel. What I feel.
......so I'm imagining ten or so hour sessions with a marriage counselor will sum up to what you folks have told me. What if I show her my thread here. Do you think she'll get upset? I do know the answer to that.
Until another day.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Stop it, you're making me sad! haha... okay, just being silly, but this is very sad, I can feel your intense pain, as I know it would hurt my heart to the extent that I'd be an empty shell, if my husband did that to me. 

Well, you truly seem to have a well rounded viewpoint of this thing, and are looking at it from all angles, which is good. At the end of the day, you can only do what you think is necessary. We have all told you what we would do and it seems you are in one heck of a dilema. Leave your best friend of 24 years, someone whom you admire, respect and love, and find real love, or stay and be alone and deprived for the rest of your life. By the way, the nicer word for blow job is fellatio.... or oral sex. I am not one to beat around the bush, sorry! I'm Episcopalian, nice to meet another Catholic, as we do recite the Nicene Creed every Sunday. 

Anyway, I don't know about showing her the thread. I suppose that might be a wake up call for her? I am sure she would be hurt, who wouldn't? But, given the severity of what she's put you through, it might be an option. What I would certainly do, is get into some counseling, fast. And if she was molested, raped, or otherwise abused by a man (or woman for that matter) then she needs to get help. Am I correct to assume that she works with battered women, or rape victims? If so, perhaps there is a reason she identifies so well with those women.... maybe she's picked a career that allows her to help women, that are just like she was, that is, if she was abused. Or, she might very well be a lesbian, and just can't admit it to you, or herself. If she is, she needs to move on, find a woman, and let you go to be happy. Realistically, you both sound like mature adults, so why can't you be happy just being really good friends? Why stay married. I know you don't believe in divorce, but I'd wager if you told a priest, about all this, and that you've been denied any type of love except friendly love, for years.... he'd say you had a cause for divorce. I am not encouraging you to divorce, just don't see much of a way out of this problem, except to let her go. She may very well be depressed , especially if you leave. But what are you? What have you been for the last 5 years? Alone, devalued as a man, not loved, physically,,, which connects with a strong emotional bond as well. Making love, helps seal the emotional bond between a man and woman, and therefore, you can't have a marraige without that. You two are friends, nothing more. And it's time you were able to feel treasured, loved, desired, lusted after, and wanted passionately.... Even when passion in a marriage fades over time, and the comfortable silly lovemaking takes over, it's still love, and it's still a physical connection. what you have here, with her, is nothing.... nothing but someone you have grown to admire and care for very deeply, but not a wife. Please don't think I'm ripping on her, I just feel so sorry for you, I've never heard of such, a man or woman going years without sex in a marriage. Please think of yourself too... and think what life will be like, if you don't stand up for your own happiness. Your devotion to her is admirable, but it's at the cost of your very soul.....


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## Guest (Jan 7, 2009)

marina72 said:


> I know you don't believe in divorce, but I'd wager if you told a priest, about all this, and that you've been denied any type of love except friendly love, for years.... he'd say you had a cause for divorce.


_Let the husband fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. *The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does*; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. *Stop depriving one another*, except by agreement for a time that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again lest *Satan tempt you *because of your lack of self-control. (1 Corinthians 7:3-5)_

See the "Satan tempt you" bit?



> I ran into a good friend. She asked if my wife and I wanted to get together with her the next day. I stated that it would have to wait until my wife came back into town. O.k., I just re re read this, I'm babbling, let me get to the point. We got together. I was vulnerable. She knew it. She was understanding. She cared. She......I don't know, she just made me feel, like I haven't felt in years.
> We are still friends. She knows about my dilemma. I feel strangely good, secure when I'm around her. We haven't been intimate, but, there has been a few times(wife is out of town a lot) where I shake on the inside when she's near...., and I haven't a clue why.


Now, I don't believe in Satan (or God for that matter!) but the people who wrote the Bible obviously recognised that lack of passion in a marriage can lead to temptation (in your case, temptation has indeed arisen)... and ultimately, infidelity!


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

What Alex is getting at , with Corinthians, is that you "must not deprive one another, except by consent" meaning, both couples must Agree to abstinance. I am sure you know, that bibilically speaking, in the strictest of terms, her duty to you as a wife, and likewise yours as a hubby, is to make love, regularly, thereby avoiding adultry, and also to connect and love one another. Obviously, we can't take everything quite that literally, after all, who wants to have sex with someone that they know is only doing it out of obligation? That sucks... but, You clearly have been tempted, and who can blame you? After that long, but if you don't want to commit that big of a sin, and I do believe in Satan, and God, and I'm pretty sure you do also, then you need to have some counseling asap.... Even though your wife has lead you to this point, it's still not right to sleep with someone else , when in a marriage. So, just think on that. Fider makes a valid point. I feel for you. I only write because my heart goes out to you, a total stranger, but it's just that I feel I must say these things. I hope it all works out for you, and your wife. and that if you must divorce to find your own happiness, that you can forgive yourself, you don't deserve to be miserable forever. I hope you can both find happiness. 

ps... I know in the Catholic church, divorce is a huge no no, and you're pretty much excommunicated, but , if that happens, then you could always join the Episcopal Church ,if you are the type that wants to attend church and it's important to you! we don't happen to frown quite as much on divorce (I myself got divorced from my first husband, he was physically abusive and commited adultry, so I said so long) or other social issues facing people in life. Just a thought! ;-)


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24 said:


> What if I show her my thread here. Do you think she'll get upset? I do know the answer to that.
> Until another day.


If you show her this thread, I will take back what I said about you being timid, and having low self esteem. 

You have also made a mockery of yourselves by allowing others to think you have a perfect marriage. Evil loves secrecy...


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Collecting my thoughts. I don't have much to say.

MTwain. Hello In regards to "evil loves secrecy" : I used the phrase "people assume"...and to expand on this, I tell my friends that my marriage is far from perfect, whenever giving advice.

I would of done anything for a Tums last night.

I have to act, or control. This is becoming difficult.

Thank you, once again, and again, marina72 and alex fider.

I pray.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

"evil loves secrecy" was a paraphrase of something in the Gospels, but I can't remember the exact passage.

I think you need to look at everything that has brought you to this point. Leave no stone unturned, including:

1)Your religion.
2)Your self image.
3)Your wife.

I'm not going to tell you what you should do, except - work on yourself, then you will have an expanded awareness from which to work from.


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## marina72 (Dec 29, 2008)

Hope you're doing alright Francis24. Hang in there. 

Keep praying and thinking, eventually, you'll find the right path. Nothing in life is a mistake, or a coincidence, you were meant to be where you are now, it doesn't mean you're meant to be there forever, just that this is part of God's plan for you, as he has one for all of us, even those who don't believe in him, he plans for them, and loves them deeply. God wants us to experience, the good, the bad, and the ugly, so as to come to a place of self acceptance and love, and pureness of heart, and then we'll be fit to be his, but in the end, we were always fit, as we are his creation. There is never good , without bad. It's truly God's gift to us, because if we never had any of the bad, we wouldn't have the enormous capability to love so deeply.... Please take care of yourself.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2009)

I'm sticking with the 'asexual' theory.


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi Francis24,

I'm totally new here, but thought I'd jump in and comment.

You seem like a super nice guy. I can relate to your polite nature. As a side note, I worked for a European company for years and felt so at home there b/c the communication was so much more polite than here in the states. I just wanted to acknowledge that polite doesn't necessarily have to mean self-less (I do have some self-esteem issues I'm working on, so consider the source of this comment..smiles).

If I were to let myself jump to conclusions, I'd guess that your wife is a lesbian. I thought that after the first page or two of your posts. I also wondered if she has a lesbian lover. It sounds like she has a very public career, but you just never know. The theory of her being asexual is interesting too.

I don't know that it matters whether she is asexual, was abused or whatever. You stated clearly that she was never that into sex. I believe that history is a pretty good predictor of the future. Therefore, unless she has some epiphany and wants to address her own issues, she'll keep doing what she's doing. Clearly nothing is going to happen by your being patient. You can check that off the list of things to try as you've given it fair trial.

She's comfortable. She has the perfect life for her. You're uncomfortable, and up until now you've not done anything to make yourself more comfortable. Kudos for coming here and sharing your story. It must feel like a huge relief just to talk about it.

I like to remember the word consequence. It always remembers me There's consequence to staying in your comfort zone of not getting your needs met. There's consequence to taking action. You wife may have to finally face the consequence of not putting out (sorry if that sounds crude). Consequence isn't always predictable, but it sure does show up every time.

One more thought. You seem to really admire your wife. That's really great. The fact that she's repulsed by just about all other men is interesting. It makes me wonder if she makes you feel extra special because she is not repulsed by you? Think about that? What a huge compliment to be married to and loved by a woman who finds your entire gender repulsive?

And, remember, you can't solve a problem from the same place in which you created it (Einstein).

Warmly,
Kerry


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Kerry said:


> I don't know that it matters whether she is asexual, was abused or whatever.


I think it does. If Francis really loves this woman, he can help her deal with her issues.

The rest of your post was spot on. :smthumbup:


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Hi A. Fider,

Yours is a good point, and I get that he really cares about her. I was pointing out that it sounds like she is quite cozy with the way things are. Francis is the one who is uncomfortable (poor guys needs Tums! That's no substitute!). Anyway, I'm sure you know that the only thing he can change is himself.

When you say "he can help her deal with her issues." don't you think that can be a little dangerous? I mean she absolutely has to want to deal with whatever it is. BTW, it could take years for HER to realize shes even has an issue. That's a lotta Tums!

Thanks for helping me to clarify my point.

k


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

I think we need to get a bit more subtle here.

The woman works in the international arena of helping abused women. She is confronted with women who have been badly treated and probably raped all day long. Then she comes home, and simply does not want any part of a man's penis near her.

Of course one has to ask why she was drawn to this work in the first place. A few posts back, I talked about my Ex of 20 years ago who was doing the same work. With her it went the other way. She never had a problem with sex, she just could not live with men - or maybe it was just me 

But she used to bring her work home with her. And one day, I had enough.

We are still friends, and she is still in a similar business, but not quite as full on as it was.


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## Guest (Jan 10, 2009)

Right... just for clarification "Tums" is a euphanism for sex, right? :rofl: I'm so slow lol.


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## Leahdorus (Jul 28, 2008)

Alex, actually "Tums" are a brand of antacid here in the US... but I suppose it could be a euphemism too! :rofl:


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## Kerry (Jan 9, 2009)

Talk about slow. I'm like, uh? I thought it was just Tums. You know, so much tension b/c of the lack of sex that he needed Tums.


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Francis24's world is upside down.
I told her.
I showed her.
I am losing weight.
I am unbeilevably so...upset at all these holes in my soul.
I despise her now. 
Maybe I think I snapped.
I was just driving......and somebody let me in, and I thought to myself, geez, still some acts of kindness.....then I lost it. I started crying. For myself. Almost a hour in a parking lot. I haven't cried since my mothers passing years ago.

I don't ever want to be with her.
She knew, and made her choices.
She knew.
Hear I am feeling bad posting negative things about her on this thread.
Feeling bad? WTF
I have taken steps. I knew something, just something, was intiment. Never imagined this though.

My little brother in law, drinking buddy is crushed.
Everybody loves me. I am breaking many hearts
For me, myself and I.

Mr.Twain,marina72, alex fider, Kerry, everybody who posted.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You good people do not need to worry, if your comments pushed me to act irrational.
This has been going on a long time. Either way, this thread, or no thread, it was going to happen.

She is scrambling. Her world is upside too now. Guys, she is hastly sinking to what she considers low levels, to please me.
I am looking and looking at this keyboard pad. Words. No words.

I will keep my friends updated.
My best.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

This crisis seems very positive to me.

I would like to know more of what is going on, but you sometimes speak in riddles, making us have to guess your true meaning.

Please could you fully explain this:


Francis24 said:


> My little brother in law, drinking buddy is crushed.
> Everybody loves me. I am breaking many hearts



and this:


Francis24 said:


> She is scrambling. Her world is upside too now. Guys, she is hastly sinking to what she considers low levels, to please me.


Whatever you do, do not get her pregnant at this stage, because it is not clear how the future will play out.

I'm also sending you a PM.


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## soulmate (Jan 18, 2009)

Dear Francis24, My God, life is hard! My heart hurts for both of you. While I certainly think you are past the place where this may or may not matter, I have met many asexual people in my life and many of them are invovled in career fields were their needs are pushed below the surface in order to take care of others. Your wife takes care of so many people, so many demands must be placed on her on a daily basis. Who she does not take care of is herself and yourself. Why? After 24 years she must feel safe with you (probably has for a long time), she has you to support her without putting demands on her, she has you to "hold down the fort" while she is helping others. Why do people sacrifice aspects of themselves to benefit others? Why do people join religious orders and vow poverty, chastity and obediance? Think of the people that we consider to be devoted to humanity. What of their private lives? Where does their fulfillment come from? Probably not from their spouses or families. I know, I know, charity is supposed to start at home, but realistically, does that truly happen? Regarding your wife's attitude toward men, is that merely a consequence of her job combined with a need to justify to herself and to you her lack of sexual desire? You have stated repeatedly that she was never a fan of sex. If she is asexual, it does not surprise me that she went into a field that requires her committment body and soul. Can you change a person from asexual to sexual? Can you truly ask her to change? I know that you have asked yourself if you are willing to become asexual to keep
your marriage together. Is that fair to you? Also, consider the strong possibilty that you married her knowing that she was asexual. What have you been doing the last 24 years to keep yourself diverted from the sexual aspect of your relationship? You are unhappy know, but where you happy 5, 10, 15 years ago? You seem to have a great deal of insight into yourself and your wife, but how long can you quiet that voice that is screaming into your head. I am sorry, I am sure that none of this helps.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2009)

Asexuality is a sexual orientation, like heterosexual or bisexual. You cannot change this. If you are asexual, you cannot become sexual. If you are heterosexual, you cannot become asexual unless you surpress your sex drive... and this is VERY dangerous.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Of course, there are some genuine asexuals, but I think it's quite rare.

I believe that some repressed people are able to keep up the repression of the sex drive by throwing themselves into work or sport.


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## Guest (Jan 21, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Of course, there are some genuine asexuals, but I think it's quite rare.
> 
> I believe that some repressed people are able to keep up the repression of the sex drive by throwing themselves into work or sport.


I guess it's hard to tell the difference between someone who's asexual and someone who's just plain old fashioned repressed.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Alex_Fider said:


> I guess it's hard to tell the difference between someone who's asexual and someone who's just plain old fashioned repressed.


Don't worry; I have a talent for sniffing them out


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## Francis24 (Nov 21, 2008)

Hello. It has been a while. Thank you for all your input. Greatly appreciated.

I moved out of the bedroom in early December. Seperated. Sorting matters out, as expected, was difficult. I filed for divorce in January. The one or two odd days that we are in the same house, is beyond awful. Even if just a handfull of words are exchanged. I usually vacate on those days.

Sunshine.

Plenty of sunshine in my future. I am alive. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I am staring down at the keyboard, no words available to explain how I feel. Joy. Future....Oh, oh oh, I am thrilled, at the future....I can not wait until it is finalized.You can not, and will never know what it is like to be me, at this very stage of my life. I am so overwhelmed with what is going to come. Joy, joy.

All at a price. Yes, my in law side is hurt. Despising me currently. I know that it will never be the same for them, but, I have told them that my feelings for them will never change. Theirs has.,..and sadly I do understand, blood is thicker then water.,...I was hoping they could reach beyond being a mature adult, and set that apart. Hmm. Maybe in time I suppose, I hope.

Back to me.

More joy.

Last weekend I was invited to a friends house for a birthday party. As I was departing, a lady that I had just met, walked up to me, put her hand on my arm, looked deeply into my eyes, and stated: "very nice to aquaint with you, I look forward to meeting again"......

Francis could not stop thinking how wonderful it was to be touched......Counting the days.

O.k., I just wanted to say hello, give an update....Voivod, MTwain, Amplexor, carmaenforcer Azmomoftwo, brad, magicsunset08, jenni, brenda, Swedish, MsLady, lostluv, Angry Andromeda, AlexFider, Marina72, Leahdorus and soulmate, thank you for responding to my thread, I, from the bottom of my heart, am grateful. Please feel free to say hello, whenever wherever.

Francis


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Francis24-

I'm so proud of you. I think you're going to have a fantastic future, and I'm sure your never going to invite emotional abuse again.

I hope you continue to check in, as well as giving advice to others. Only people with experience like yours know the depths of the issues involved - from the inside.


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