# Emotional responses, authenticity and openness



## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

Another thread brought up a subject I'd like to hear opinions on.

How do you value authenticity of a response to something undesirable one spouse did against the value of open communication, which a charged emotional backlash may shut down?

When someone we care about reacts extremely negatively to our expressed desires, the tendency of most, I think, is to back off of that desire. So in a manner of speaking extreme emotional reactions are also control mechanisms.

The person expressing the want is left with a choice to continue behaving openly and honestly at the risk of extreme hostility and upsetting their partner, or retreating and becoming less open and honest.

The person reacting to the expressed want is left with a choice to react authentically emotionally hostile, potentially shut down their partner's openness, or repress themselves for the sake of open communication.

How do you handle this in your relationships?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Well I guess this is my thing...I ask these pertinent questions PRIOR to making a lifetime commitment to someone in a effort to be on the same page. 

I think you are allowed to ask for anything you feel is important to you. If that is met with 100% no then you have a choice to give it up or stop being with that person. But all these conversations and decisions should be made prior to marriage

Now the argument will come that suppose years after marriage this idea pops in your head. You realize you never did this one sexual act and you now want to try it. You bring it up and are handly shot down. Same two choices apply but now you risk a lot more with a divorce. 

I don't think that should damage communication. One person is asking the other is answering. If one person is badgering or nagging about it that's a form or emotional abuse to me. OTOH if you are overreacting to all questions being asked that's about the same thing because it then causes your partner to shut up and shut down.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

"TARS, honesty 90%" 

But seriously, I think honesty has got to take precedence for me today... and it's harder than I think most people realize, but tremendously comfortable when you have it.

On bringing things up repeatedly, sure... badgering would be a pita. But the occasional mention, I don't know. It seems legit to always continue feeling each other out. Attitudes change and interests often compete. I think the trick is to manage them in a mutual non-judgmental, and not pushy way... so as to avoid the other person shutting down. Combined with choosing a person in your values ballpark in the first place.

It was contentious in the other thread whether the woman should apologize for her emotional outburst reaction. I walk the middle line. I think she's entitled to react that way, and I also think she should apologize. She should be authentic, and in apologizing, ought to reaffirm to him that she still needs to hear truth whether he thinks she'll like it or not. The apology is more about maintaining the open channel of honest communication than it is for the outburst. At some point you come down to earth and discuss like mature rational adults even when the subject is emotionally charged. IMO, if you kill the communication channel, nothing else matters... the water's surface may be calm but a tsunami is brewing.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> "TARS, honesty 90%"
> 
> But seriously, I think honesty has got to take precedence for me today... and it's harder than I think most people realize, but tremendously comfortable when you have it.
> 
> ...



I can see what your saying I just read that situation very differently. Let's be honest asking for a threesome is a pretty big deal. Some are into it and some aren't. You had a recently married couple and he asked once and she shot that down cold. Then he asked again. Why though? This isn't the same as asking where do you want to eat on Friday then asking again day of to see if anything changed. Generally sexual boundrys, especially something as involved as adding a third party, likely is not ever going to change. To me that seemed like borderline badgering or least the start of it. I did give him some benefit of the doubt that he just brain farted but I don't think she needs to apologize.

If my GF asked me once that she wanted to watch me with another guy my answer would be 100% no. If she asked again I would be upset and seriously wondering what the heck was going on with her.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening all
The way I would like things to work, and the way I do my best to behave: 

Try to avoid instant anger, no matter what your partner says. You love them so try to see if what they said has a different interpretation. Was it an attack intended to hurt? Was it just thoughtless? Was it something so important to them that they felt the needed to say it even though they knew it would hurt you? Did they not know it would hurt? Did they not care?


If something really does hurt, I'll try to explain why. Maybe directly with words, maybe in some other fairly gentle way. For example: A few nights ago my wife saw me in boxers and said "you have a bit o fat around the tummy". So I walked over to the scale, checked -said (accurately) - "same weight I've been for 10 years but is probably redistributing. I'm getting old, guess you need to trade me in for a new boy-toy". (smiling as I said it).

She said that "Yup, I'm getting old too" - and gave me a hug.

Clearly she had not really thought of the comment as insulting or considered how she would have felt if I had said the same to her. So all OK.


OTOH I am always very careful about what I say around other people, especially my wife, to avoid upsetting them. Its sad, I wish I could be open and honest, but I can't.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Try to avoid instant anger, no matter what your partner says. You love them so try to see if what they said has a different interpretation. Was it an attack intended to hurt? Was it just thoughtless? Was it something so important to them that they felt the needed to say it even though they knew it would hurt you? Did they not know it would hurt? Did they not care?
> .


That hit the spot for me at this point.Because I am sometimes attacked for "because" by my spouse. Because he has diffferent idea and just has to scold me for mine. So yes, I can feel that after four months of trying to repair what seemed not repairable, then seemed that it might work after all, now I feel like I am back at square one. Not wheter to walk away, or rather when?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

People change and grow, so not everything can be settled prior to marriage. What a stagnant life that would create!

Even prior hard and fast limits can change in time. Respectful communication is key. You shut down your spouse at your own peril and that of the relationship. Even if something remains a hard limit for you, it still needs to be communicated respectfully, and options considered that may work for you both. To respond otherwise is unloving, manipulative, and possibly even abusive. Your answer can still be "No," of course.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

How did this thread question become automatically about sex?? :scratchhead:


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

I tried to word it generically here, but the source thread had a sexual focus. He expresses a threesome desire, and she freaks out.

Both are open and authentic. But the freak out response may cause him to be less expressive of his desires. So there was a conflict of sentiment between those who felt she should stick to her emotional guns, and those who felt she should apologize later for freaking out, in order to keep lines of communication open. None of which is actually about having or not having a threesome.

The thread was getting hijacked by this discussion, so I tried to bring it here.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

My fiance tends to do what you are talking about. When I bring something up and the point hits home she can get emotional and so gets very hard to communicate.

What I've learned is just live with the emotions she will come out with and can tell my the reactions (sometimes a day later) if she accepted it.

She knows I'm direct person and won't hold back. So I guess my solution is to push through it. Unless I was being a jerk, she just has to deal with it. Seems to work.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

^exactly. I expanded the subject from the original sexually oriented thread.

I've been with many women who used emotional freak outs as control mechanisms (some intentional and contrived, others authentic or subconsciously - learned manipulative behavior... like tantrums). It's the emotional version of shouting down your opponent imo.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I would emotionally freak out if my SO asked:

- Can we start taking separate vacations? 
- Can we start tithing to a church?
- Can you get rid of the cat?
- Can I quit my job while you support me? (Unless there's a reason for this).
- Can I bring another woman into our bed?

Sorry, I'm emotional that way.

My SO does not fly off the handle, ever, so I wouldn't get an angry emotional response, or disappointed emotional response, or frustrated emotional response. I don't know that I'd even get a hurt emotional response. I guess he saves it up for his loving emotional responses, and lets logic and reason rule the day otherwise.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> How did this thread question become automatically about sex?? :scratchhead:


I think because sexual desires are something that are so often hidden away, even from our spouse, because of shame, fear of rejection, and even fear of reprisal.

Of course this thread applies to stuff other than sex, but sex just seems to be the taboo subject in so many relationships, above and beyond other subjects.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Ok my perspective is pretty direct and clear here. I have spent 60% of my life with my wife - we met when I was 19. So NO I can not discuss any new ideas I have about sex with her before my marriage.
> 
> I am not nearly the same guy today in my 50's as I was at age 19 when we met or mid/late 20's when we married.
> 
> ...


I like this post. Honesty is a test of trust. Trust is a foundation for intimacy. You'll never know how much initimacy you can have in a relationship until you open up.

To Norajane's point, I think a spouse has an obligation to use a little common sense about what might be treading into relationship-damaging territory.

"Honey, I want to be honest...I think your sister is way hotter than you."

Technically just being honest--but not wise in the least.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Another thread brought up a subject I'd like to hear opinions on.
> 
> How do you value authenticity of a response to something undesirable one spouse did against the value of open communication, which a charged emotional backlash may shut down?
> 
> ...


I guess I think the least of a person's problems is their openness if they are in a relationship who is openly hostile.


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## DvlsAdvc8 (Feb 15, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> I guess I think the least of a person's problems is their openness if they are in a relationship who is openly hostile.


I agree. I don't think you can have proper openness amidst hostility. So don't you think it behoves a person who has responded in a hostile/emotional manner to apologize for that reaction, in order to keep channels open?

I think the most important channels are those you don't want to hear. React how you will, but if it's hostile, I'd think the adult in us needs to make amends and revisit the issue.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> I agree. I don't think you can have proper openness amidst hostility. So don't you think it behoves a person who has responded in a hostile/emotional manner to apologize for that reaction, in order to keep channels open?


Hostile and emotional are not the same thing. Emotions include things like hurt, fear. A person must be free to express those feelings as much as any feeling of "want". 

Hostility's definition includes words like enmity, antagonism.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Nobodyspecial
Sometimes expressing hurt is fine.

I think that expressing hurt about something you were told should be avoided if possible. That expression of hurt will cause your partner to stop telling you their feelings. I think that is very rarely what you want.




NobodySpecial said:


> Hostile and emotional are not the same thing. Emotions include things like hurt, fear. A person must be free to express those feelings as much as any feeling of "want".
> 
> Hostility's definition includes words like enmity, antagonism.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Nobodyspecial
> Sometimes expressing hurt is fine.
> 
> I think that expressing hurt about something you were told should be avoided if possible. That expression of hurt will cause your partner to stop telling you their feelings. I think that is very rarely what you want.


So that makes very little sense to me. It almost reads that one person must withhold their honesty so they other party is free to express theirs? 

The fact is that communication of an emotion isn't or shouldn't be the end game but the game starter. That is where the work to understand how you look at things differently and what the meaning is, in order to clear up any hurt.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MarriedGuy221 said:


> Where does that leave us? I guess it means if I can't express who I am and what I want then I either:
> 
> 1) have to suck it in and build resentments
> 2) discuss it and try to work on new things
> ...


I really enjoyed this post.. :smthumbup:...I can relate to it... in our marriage.. my husband is the more vanilla and easily satisfied.. we both were for many years , then wham !....(Mid life hormonal surge messing with my head!)...I came to this forum wanting to get him more aggressive in bed... "Rape fantasy" anyone.... He's always been the "slow hand, easy touch" making love -lover. 

The wonderful thing about my H is... although these things are difficult for him, what I was asking/ wanting...and for the life of him , he couldn't understand what what wrong with me -wanting something like that (also not one to care for role play, toys).... I mean he never even suggested we try Doggy / 69 .. it was ME who said - "I'm getting on my knees.. get over here!".... It was me who wanted to rent porn / "loving sex" videos, reading books/ articles on spicing it up... 

This was our journey together & I was very passionate about it.. Thankfully he loved my enthusiasm.. but sometimes I'd cause a fight over it..still wanting HIM to take more of the reins...pushing just a little TOO HARD. 

One thing Husband well knows about my personality is... I *can't* keep things bottled... If I have something on my mind /







.. I *need *to talk about it...this is what soothes me....and it's best at the seed stage (festering is not good)...

I dearly love communication.. if I was married to someone who SHUT DOWN HERE.. we would have never lasted.. ..Deep discussions on EVERY level /any subject.. BRING THEM!! ... honesty.. being vulnerable ... TRUST..... a willingness to hear each other out.. it's the bedrock .... He would say the same..

As far as people changing over the years, that we're not the same people we were when we met.. I can't relate to this so much..some may feel this is boring or stagnant somehow (I seen that suggested).. but it's also a plus.. it's consistent.. our foundation never changed so to speak.. if myself & H had a time machine. outside of being more sexual & not being so religious (on my end).. everything we wanted THEN would be the same thing we would do all over again.. 

This sexual NEED for him to be more aggressive had a hold on me for a time (though really this was a WANT, not a NEED...which helped me lay it down)....ends up I just got more aggressive with him!!! We got through it.. some of our fights over this were hilarious.. I wrote them in our journal.. telling him to be more of a son of B*** ... if he pulls my hair, there I am saying ..."Harder, harder, rip it out".... ya know he tried.. what more could I ask for.. 

I feel it takes 2 committed to this sort of vulnerable authentic openness ...I feel if the laid foundation is in tact.. how much easier this is to DO....should anything be TOO SHOCKING? I suppose if you marry a Preacher & he suddenly wants to try swinging.. yeah.. that's not going to go over too well !! 

Now granted.. I had a HUGE part to play in this being the more demanding /wanting partner... as to not PUSH TOO HARD too fast...to show him..."I care to please you in what you want too.. here I am!"...and to verbally encourage/ validate him when he did step out of his comfort zone, pushing it up a notch... or he could have become "weary", feeling he wasn't enough... feeling I am impossible to please.. taking a hit on his spirit and our bonding...which anyone would begin to shut down.. 

We didn't have this happen on either side.. Because we never allowed the communication to be stunted..


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## Blossom Leigh (Mar 27, 2014)

In our house we aim for accuracy and truthfulness, but coating it in love, so I love the brown sticky ... great wording.

If the "concern" is spoken ruthlessly, it gets shut down and that person is asked to choose a better approach. 

This has transformed our relationship, but it takes knowing what ruthless is and sometimes that can be very covert.

Being respectful and kind will get you heard a LOT faster than nasty.

BUT we also do not hold each other hostage to our own personal bad behavior. We applaud each other we we are called out for crossing that line.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening NobodySpecial
Its really tricky. Expressing unhappiness about something is fine. Expressing unhappiness about being TOLD something is a bit different.


It also depends on how it is expressed. 

Person A: I'd like to try a threesome
Person B: No, I really don't want to do anything sexual with other people, the whole idea really bothers me
[this I think is OK]


Person A: I'd like to try a threesome
Person B: That's horrible. Are you tired of me. Don't you love me any more. How dare you suggest such a thing. etc .etc
[Not OK - shuts down communication].


OR 

Person A: I'd like to try anal sex
Person B: No, I really don't want to do that ever.
[OK]

Person A: I'd like to try anal sex
Person B: what kind or pervert are you. Thats a disgusting suggestion.


The point I'm trying to make is that I think you can indicate that you dislike an idea, without attacking the person for having suggested it. I think an attack is only justified for truly outrageous requests (children, rape, etc.), not for things that some part of the population engage in voluntarily. 










NobodySpecial said:


> So that makes very little sense to me. It almost reads that one person must withhold their honesty so they other party is free to express theirs?
> 
> The fact is that communication of an emotion isn't or shouldn't be the end game but the game starter. That is where the work to understand how you look at things differently and what the meaning is, in order to clear up any hurt.


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