# Son's Girlfriend Never Speaks To Us and Constantly Seeks Attention



## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

This is not a question about our marriage, but about our youngest son. I hope this is the right place? 

Our son is 20, and has been going out with his 18 year old girlfriend for nearly 18 months. 

She seems a very strange girl, and barely talks to us at all. We are a very open family with three children, and we all try our best to include her in conversations, but at best we only get a one or two word reply. Our son also seems nervous of talking to us when she is around, as she displays severe mood swings if she doesn't like what is being said; whether or not it involves her. This makes long car journeys unpleasant, whilst meal times are thoroughly awkward. We always make a point of thanking and complimenting whoever cooked the meal, but she just sits there staring at the table and says nothing. 

Our son says that she is shy, but after 18 months it seems more like rudeness to us. 

Unfortunately we don't really know what she likes or doesn't like because she refuses to talk to us. However, our son has told us that she doesn't like to hear people talking about politics that she doesn't agree with, about cars or machines, food, medicine, things she doesn't understand and various other topics. 

However, our main concern is with her constant attention seeking, claiming to have endless allergies, conditions, 'issues' and so forth; most of which we strongly suspect are fake. Likewise she has an asthma inhaler that comes out whenever she wants sympathy, and feigns being short of breath. We have also had faints on several occasions. 

She claims to be supremely happy in her relationship with our son, but every day she posts something on Facebook telling the world how miserable she feels, what a bad day she is having, how she has had numerous nightmares or panic attacks during the night, how tired or suicidal she feels and so forth, although none of her 300 + 'Facebook friends' ever responds. We wonder why? Do they know her better?

She also claims that she is (in her words) 'rubbish at everything' and that she doesn't have any friends, although she is regularly invited out to parties. 

We all went out for a family meal together with grandparents before our son and his girlfriend went off to their respective universities, but she refused to eat anything from the menus, and sat with just a plate of chips (fries) in front of her, barely speaking to anyone for a whole hour. 

Our son denies it, but he is clearly terrified of picking her up late, whilst she changes arrangements at her end by the minute. He often has to drop everything and drive over to see her because she has phoned him in a flood of tears about something or another, while it has become impossible for us to arrange anything because we never know when our son will be called. 

We never know whether she is staying for tea until it actually happens, whilst catering for her whims and allergies is a nightmare. We were told, for example, at one meal out that she cannot eat pizza because she is lactose intolerant, but then she asked for a Latte afterwards! 

When she stays over here she rarely gets up before noon, and any plans of them going out or doing anything just seem to crumble as she either isn't in the mood, doesn't feel like it, feels too tired or whatever. We find she is just energy sapping to be with. 

We have tried to discuss our concerns with our son, and have told him that he will live a very restricted life with her on a very limited diet, but he cannot accept that there is a problem, or explains it away by saying that 'she was having a bad day' (which seems to be almost every day of the week). 

We really cannot see that they will live happily together for very long, but she has said that she was suicidal before she met our son, and has threatened to take her own life if she cannot have him. We think he is just too caring to say 'no' to her, or tell her the truth.

What on earth can we do to make him see sense before it is too late? Like most parents we just want our children to be happy.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your son is an adult.
He is choosing her for a reason and what he gets out of a relationship with her. You can't really choose a partner for him. But if you are being disrespected in your home, then you should not allow it.


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

Hicks said:


> Your son is an adult.
> He is choosing her for a reason and what he gets out of a relationship with her. You can't really choose a partner for him. But if you are being disrespected in your home, then you should not allow it.


I would agree with you, but it seems our son just cannot think for himself where his girlfriend is concerned. He relies entirely on us for finance whilst he is at Uni, so to put it bluntly we really do not want him to get into a disastrous relationship that we cannot afford. And we want him to be happy!

Our son did have a holiday job in the summer, but he had to leave so often to console his GF that he gave it up after two weeks to be with her.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> He relies entirely on us for finance whilst he is at Uni, so to put it bluntly we really do not want him to get into a disastrous relationship that we cannot afford.


Explain this sentence.

Why would you have to pay for HIS disastrous relationship?


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

Mavash. said:


> Explain this sentence.
> 
> Why would you have to pay for HIS disastrous relationship?


He is entirely dependent on us financially, so whatever goes wrong we pay for! As an example, we gave our son a living allowance towards his costs whilst at Uni, but he is now asking for more because he has spent a fortune with Interflora trying to cheer up his girlfriend who cannot bear to be parted from him. 

We just cannot see any way out of it. We can hardly tell him to starve.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Sounds like mum and dad are bit overbearing and coddling the 20 year old adult.
Before you begin criticizing his mate,perhaps look into why you're treating him and taking care of him as though he's 12.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Telling your son he cannot have more money bc he made a bad choice isn't the same as letting him starve.There is such thing as working for the things we want ie: purchases to cheer up clinically depressed mate.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> We just cannot see any way out of it. We can hardly tell him to starve.


Actually you can.

He's an adult and you're enabling his immature behavior.

Oh and he won't starve. 

He'll just have to get a JOB like every other adult in the world.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

The finance thing sounds like an excuse or cover for you -- the real issue is that you don't like his girlfriend. The finance thing can be solved very easily by just being firm: "We are giving you x amount per month, and that's it. If you choose to spend it on your girlfriend, that's fine, but we're not giving you more. If you want more money, you have to get a job." That would be good for him anyway, regardless of the girlfriend issue. He's not going to grow up if you keep giving him whatever he wants without limits.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

And strangely, there may actually be a connection between these things -- by coddling your son, you're leaving him less capable of making mature, adult decisions, including about his own relationships. It does sound like the woman is problematic, but you can't fix that for him. You can however limit the money you give him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> …before our son and his girlfriend went off to their respective universities,


Hour far apart are their respective universities?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> I would agree with you, but it seems our son just cannot think for himself where his girlfriend is concerned. He relies entirely on us for finance whilst he is at Uni, so to put it bluntly we really do not want him to get into a disastrous relationship that we cannot afford. And we want him to be happy!
> 
> Our son did have a holiday job in the summer, but he had to leave so often to console his GF that he gave it up after two weeks to be with her.


He left a summer job? You need to let him know in the future that your support of his education depends on him doing whatever he can to bring in some finances for himself. Thus he cannot quit a job like this ever again.

Of course if he does quit, it means that you would need to do something if he does quits... like give him less then you would have otherwise.

Do you give him spending money between semesters?


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

ScarletBegonias said:


> Sounds like mum and dad are bit overbearing and coddling the 20 year old adult.
> Before you begin criticizing his mate,perhaps look into why you're treating him and taking care of him as though he's 12.


Seriously, we don't mind who he goes out with, but this girl's behaviour is strange to say the least, and she always creates a difficult atmosphere in our home. We actually liked her at first, but it seems the more we try to make her welcome the more difficult she becomes. 

Unfortunately it is difficult to for our son to work during Uni term as he has a very intensive course. His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then. None of her immediate family work, so she doesn't seem to understand that others need to. 

Anyhow, I have taken you comments on board, and agree it would probably be best just to stand back and let them get on with it, and hope it fizzles out. 

Thank you all for your words of advice. Maybe it is just us.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> He is entirely dependent on us financially, so whatever goes wrong we pay for! As an example, we gave our son a living allowance towards his costs whilst at Uni, but he is now asking for more because he has spent a fortune with Interflora trying to cheer up his girlfriend who cannot bear to be parted from him.
> 
> We just cannot see any way out of it. We can hardly tell him to starve.


This is you making a bad choice to give him money to waste on Interflora.

Do you give him monthly spending money? Give him only enough for his food and necessities. He will not let himself starve. Just let him know that you will not be giving him any more that what has been established that he absolutely needs.

There is no way that you should give him any money at all to support any dating or any relationship with any girl.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

There is nothing you can do about his relationship with her but you do not have to, and shouldn't increase his allowance.

If this requires "letting him starve" then let him starve.

He'll learn


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm with the others... You're simply enabling his poor decisions, like quitting his job to coddle his girlfriend. Did you do that throughout his childhood too? Pick up his mistakes and "fix" them?

Also, buy him a copy of "No More Mr. Nice Guy", and "Married Man's Sex Life Primer". He'll need them. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> Seriously, we don't mind who he goes out with, but this girl's behaviour is strange to say the least, and she always creates a difficult atmosphere in our home. We actually liked her at first, but it seems the more we try to make her welcome the more difficult she becomes.
> 
> Unfortunately it is difficult to for our son to work during Uni term as he has a very intensive course. His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then. None of her immediate family work, so she doesn't seem to understand that others need to.


If you cut back financially to give him only what he absolutely needs, it would force him into needing to work. This is a good thing whether he's with this girl or not. 

Right now you are coddling him. This is what you need to stop doing.




Dotty Mum said:


> Anyhow, I have taken you comments on board, and agree it would probably be best just to stand back and let them get on with it, and hope it fizzles out.


He's 20. She's 18. They are at different universities. The relationship is almost assured to fizzle out give time. Its more likely to fizzle out if your son has less money available to him so he has to work for anything other than the bare necessities.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Dotty Mum said:


> Seriously, we don't mind who he goes out with, but this girl's behaviour is strange to say the least, and she always creates a difficult atmosphere in our home. We actually liked her at first, but it seems the more we try to make her welcome the more difficult she becomes.
> 
> Unfortunately it is difficult to for our son to work during Uni term as he has a very intensive course. His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then. None of her immediate family work, so she doesn't seem to understand that others need to.
> 
> ...


You are making an awful lot of excuses for him. Sounds like you are part of the problem. If he can't work, that's on him. But set a strict limit on the money you give him and stick to it, then he can decide whether it's more important to send flowers or eat.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

He definitely needs to learn that nothing should come between him and his ability to make a living...... or in this case some extra cash to make ends meet.


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

Thank you again for your comments. Looking back we have probably been too generous to all of our children, but that is just how we are. We also live in a fairly remote part of the country with little public transport, so we take things like cars for granted. 

However, can I ask whether this girl's attitude sounds 'normal' for an 18 year old (she's nothing like our daughter), or whether she is just 'different'?


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

She sounds like she has serious emotional issues on one hand but some of the stuff seems like normal drama queen spoiled brat behavior.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> However, can I ask whether this girl's attitude sounds 'normal' for an 18 year old (she's nothing like our daughter), or whether she is just 'different'?


She sounds like she has serious emotional and personality problems.

If my son dated a girl like her I'd do what I could to make it not so easy for him to spend time and only on her.

I would not say much to him about her because I would not want to feed into a Romeo and Juliet type situation.

He probably tells her every negative thing you say to him about her and their relationship. 

Is your son rebellious towards you and his father?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Dotty Mum said:


> Thank you again for your comments. Looking back we have probably been too generous to all of our children, but that is just how we are. We also live in a fairly remote part of the country with little public transport, so we take things like cars for granted.
> 
> However, can I ask whether this girl's attitude sounds 'normal' for an 18 year old (she's nothing like our daughter), or whether she is just 'different'?


No, does not sound entirely "normal", but let me bring it back to the real issue: if you're footing the bill for your son to, in some senses, pay for his girlfriend's "abnormal" behavior, then he doesn't have to feel the consequences of it. Putting him in a position where he has a limited budget and actually sees the effects of her unreasonableness on him might help him see the relationship as something not good for him. "I can't buy her flowers every time she freaks out, I have to eat. I can't spend every weekend doting on her, I have to work and study" etc. 

But it's still up to him. And yes, 18 is young, and people can behave in very strange and immature ways at that age.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Note how you are framing it "too generous" -- yes, you're generous with your children, but you're also doing them harm by not teaching them to fend for themselves. That aspect of it is not really "generous."


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

Hey Dotty, amother prespective on the gf, for the girlfriend to be 18 & displaying the behaviors you described sounds like she has probably experienced a traumatic & problematic childhood. She's depressed & does not have a healthy self image or self esteem. She's only 18. She probably shared her issues with your son & that's why he's sympatheic towards her.

To throw more negative energy her way will never help her as she's negative enough for all involved. It's probably very odd to her to be around an open & loving family. She's probably never experienced that & don't know how to respond to positive energy. She is starved for attention as for 18 years she probably hasn't received the proper attention from her family. She grabbing at straws with her misery & threats of suicide. Sadly, your son offers in an unhealthy way, unconditional love & hope. She has a hole in her soul & she fills it with the attention of your son. It's unhealthy.

I work with healthy & troubled unhealthy teenagers. You know we treat both groups the same with patience & love. There are boundaries but no matter what, we love on them & love them the same. It gets hard but we don't get on thier unhealthy level in any way, we encourage them positively whenever we can, hug them a lot, tell them we love them even in thier ugliness. You know many of the troubled ones come around & begin to receive all the love & respect poured into them. We love expecting nothing in return from them because some are just completely empty inside & have nothing to give. We let them know that they matter, we care & that they are of great value. It's the behavior/actions that suck but the human life is precious.

So, a tactic you can take is a positive one. She post negativity on FB, post "you are loved, you are beautiful, you are valuable" and nothing else. Right now, no expectations from her, she might become more negative. Don't get in the negative behavior with her, your son does that enough, just be positive & don't let her change your moods. It's a hard rope to tow but not impossible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

OP, it sounds as though your son's GF has mental health issues which cause her to behave in an attention seeking, manipulative way. 

Unfortunately, you can't do much about your son dating her, but you can refuse to allow her to disrupt your family life when she visits. I would do this by being pleasant to her, but totally ignoring her pickiness and mood swings, and encourage other family members to follow suit. Perhaps in time your son will pick up on this and start to treat her likewise, at which time the relationship will no doubt die a natural death because she isn't getting the desired attention from him.

Regarding your son's allowance, I would give him enough to live on and let him find a part-time job to pay for his dates and social life.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Eden1973 said:


> So, a tactic you can take is a positive one. She post negativity on FB, post "you are loved, you are beautiful, you are valuable" and nothing else. Right now, no expectations from her, she might become more negative. Don't get in the negative behavior with her, your son does that enough, just be positive & don't let her change your moods. It's a hard rope to tow but not impossible.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry but this is a baaaaad idea. While your assessment of the girl's needs is probably correct, her boyfriend's disapproving parents are the last people who should be trying to help her with her problems. They should stay out of it.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Girlfriend is NOT normal; normal teens do NOT threaten suicide.

I believe she is emotionally blackmailing your son. She was suicidal before she met him so the implication is that she will kill herself if he breaks up with her. I don't think ANY 20yo is emotionally mature enough to handle THIS.

*If your son is rebellious*, then be quiet about the situation. 

*If your son is NOT rebellious*, have a heart-to-heart talk with him. Tell him that you only want what is BEST for him; that you believe she is emotionally blackmailing him and that he is not doing EITHER of them a favor by spending his emotional energy trying to "FIX" her life to be happier/perfect/better/whatever.

I agree with everyone that son gets X amount of money PERIOD. Make him understand that he MUST make it last and if he doesn't, do NOT apply to you and dad for more money (and make sure you're BOTH on board with no more money...no exceptions). Tell him to get a weekend job...if that means no girlfriend, then tell him that he is NOT in a place in life where he can support a girlfriend...he can't even support himself. So, paying for HIMSELF comes first, and if he has no time or money for a girlfriend, he needs to suck-it-up and live without for a couple of years until he's a self-supporting adult AFTER uni.

It really is just that simple. YOUR JOB as parents is to PREPARE HIM to be a functioning, contributing adult in society. EXPLAIN that to him (and yourselves); it is NOT YOUR JOB to make his life easy, to solve his problems, to keep him 'happy'. Those are HIS JOBS and he needs to get on them already.

I agree with the books mentioned above. I think your son has "White Knight" syndrome; help him fix it while he's young or he'll have a procession of screwed-up women in his life that he'll be perpetually trying to "fix" while they drain the life out of him!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> Unfortunately it is difficult to for our son to work during Uni term as he has a very intensive course. His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then. None of her immediate family work, so she doesn't seem to understand that others need to.


I agree with those who say you are being overgenerous. Think about what you've written right here, DM. His coursework is too intensive for a part-time job, but not too intensive for an attention-wh*ring girlfriend? 

No, her behavior is not "normal" if by normal you mean healthy. It sounds like she has a personality disorder such as borderline personality disorder or histrionic personality (which is not an actual diagnosis but was considered for inclusion as a psychiatric disorder at one point.) 

Your son isn't with her merely because he's afraid of leaving. If that were true, your post would read very differently. He would also be miserable and he would be seeking advice instead of defending her.

I suspect she has BPD, which I have written about at Borderline Personality Disorder and Relationships. Because she is only 18, it's hard to say for certain because many teens and young adults try on behaviors they've seen elsewhere as they learn to be independent adults. In this girl's case, there are other things you've said that make me think she's not just imitating peers but really does have a personality disorder. 

In any case, if you read that article, you might come to understand why she is so important to your son right now. HIS experience of her is that he is the ONLY person in the world who is truly worthy to her. She relies on him and desires him. It's a powerful feeling to a young guy who doesn't yet have enough "real world experience" to see what it will bring into his life later. 

The real question for you, then, is what can you do to protect your son without being intrusive. To answer that, it's important to understand what he's experiencing with her and in his other daily matters. 

Getting good grades at uni hardly has the strong, immediate reward that he can get by rescuing his distressed damsel. And it's pretty easy for him to get her rewards because it's not causing him pain to do it. Sure, it's making his family relationships awkward, but that's what all his friends are going through, too, so no big deal. It cost him his summer job, but mom and pop will send him more money, so again, no big deal. 

Until he sees her as more trouble than he wants to take on, or until she turns her behaviors on him (which will happen soon, probably within the next six months, anyway), he will stick with her and be the hero. 

You can help him see reality by restricting the cash flow. Let him earn his gas money to go see her, to take her out, etc. 

You can talk with him, but it has to be in a non-judgmental, supportive way that doesn't make him feel the need to rescue her again and again. (He's now trained to this response.) 

Say something like "It must make you feel very manly to rescue her!" and see what he says. Then, without judgment, just listen. Every once in a while you can ask a guiding question, too, like, "Does that ever create problems for you?" and again, just listen. Do not offer opinions unless he asks for them.

By the way, I agree that posting positive responses on Facebook is a bad idea. In addition to John Lee's statement, it rewards her attention-seeking behavior with... more attention.


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## Eden1973 (Sep 9, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Sorry but this is a baaaaad idea. While your assessment of the girl's needs is probably correct, her boyfriend's disapproving parents are the last people who should be trying to help her with her problems. They should stay out of it.


It was a suggestion because they are having to interact with girlfriend as all the examples given on original post. Her behavior is starting to affect them when she's around. So instead of meeting her every whim or negative behavior when she's around, then an "alternative" is to remain positive. So, if it's a bad idea, delete her from your FB page & dont allow her over any more & then she won't effect the family in any way. But it probably will isolate the son.

My point is, if she's around, don't let her irritate the heck out of you with her behavior. Don't let her change you. You stay kind & loving if that's who you are. Throw positive enenry her way & in that you are positive & stay positive when she's around. What does it cost to be positive if she's in thier presence? 

What's the suggestion to OP on how to treat her when she is around until son ends relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Eden1973 said:


> It was a suggestion because they are having to interact with girlfriend as all the examples given on original post. Her behavior is starting to affect them when she's around. So instead of meeting her every whim or negative behavior when she's around, then an "alternative" is to remain positive. So, if it's a bad idea, delete her from your FB page & dont allow her over any more & then she won't effect the family in any way. But it probably will isolate the son.
> 
> My point is, if she's around, don't let her irritate the heck out of you with her behavior. Don't let her change you. You stay kind & loving if that's who you are. Throw positive enenry her way & in that you are positive & stay positive when she's around. What does it cost to be positive if she's in thier presence?
> 
> ...



I suggested:-


> ...you can refuse to allow her to disrupt your family life when she visits. I would do this by being pleasant to her, but totally ignoring her pickiness and mood swings, and encourage other family members to follow suit. Perhaps in time your son will pick up on this and start to treat her likewise, at which time the relationship will no doubt die a natural death because she isn't getting the desired attention from him.


Giving someone like the GF the attention she's manipulating them into giving is only feeding her 'illness,' IMO. She's being taught that it's OK to 'act out' in order to get attention, rather than seek the professional help it would appear that she needs.

Also, if the son has time for such a demanding GF, IMO, he has time for a part-time evening / weekend job.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

Dotty Mum said:


> I would agree with you, but it seems our son just cannot think for himself where his girlfriend is concerned. He relies entirely on us for finance whilst he is at Uni, so to put it bluntly we really do not want him to get into a disastrous relationship that we cannot afford. *And we want him to be happy!*
> 
> Our son did have a holiday job in the summer, but *he had to leave so often to console his GF that he gave it up after two weeks to be with her*.


I tried to put myself in your position and wondered what I would do. I agree with everyone else that I would not fund his dysfunctional relationship with this girl. 

He is making a bad life decision in choose his GF over a paying job. He is doing harm to himself and you are enabling him to do it. 

Respect for parents and family was the standard when I was growing up and it is a standard that my children use as well. Potential friends and bf/gf are measured by a simple rule: 

If they cannot extend the level of respect and courtesy that I give my parents and family then they are not worthy to be around the family. 

This girl shows little respect or courtesy toward you and your family. Perhaps you should ask your son why he tolerates it.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Not to belabor the point, but by giving him more than the agreed amount of money, you are literally FINANCING his decision to quit his job for his girlfriend.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If that were MY kid, after the first thing, I'd be sitting his butt down and saying 'this is the LAST time I will tolerate you shifting your life around for her, while you're on MY DIME. You're free to ruin your life on your own money. If it happens again, this is the last semester we're paying for, and you'll be moving out.'


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Where are the parents of this girl?

I wonder if they know that their daughter is suicidal.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> Thank you again for your comments. Looking back we have probably been too generous to all of our children, but that is just how we are. We also live in a fairly remote part of the country with little public transport, so we take things like cars for granted.
> 
> However, can I ask whether this girl's attitude sounds 'normal' for an 18 year old (she's nothing like our daughter), or whether she is just 'different'?


No, she sounds like she has serious social issues but in my experience many Information Age kids do.

You need to not say a word about her to your son and start making his life a bit more difficult as far as money goes.

They're ridiculously young and in a LDR in two different universities.
The likelihood of this lasting any significant length of time is nearly NIL if you don't do anything that promotes the "Romeo & Juliet" syndrome mentioned above


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Where are the parents of this girl?
> 
> I wonder if they know that their daughter is suicidal.


Well, thank you all for your helpful comments. We have plenty to think about! 

To answer the question above, the girl has told our son, and others that she has led an awful, torrid life, and that she was badly treated by her parents. 

We cannot know how true this is, but we have met the girl's mother several times. She seems a decent enough type, and is very talkative. She and the girl's father split up when she was about nine, which I guess would be traumatic for any child, but the parents maintain an amicable relationship, both attending family events and so forth, which is probably a better situation than many children of 'single parents' have to live under. Our son has met the girl's father, and he says that he seems 'OK', and is friendly. 

We have no way of knowing what things were like behind closed doors, but if what we believe is true it all seems to support the view that the girl does indeed have some form of mental problem. 

We believe the girl's relationship with her mother is often turbulent, but that is nothing unusual for a teenager is it! Apart from anything else, we understand that the girl's reckless spending often gets her into trouble with her mother, whilst she is always 'too tired' to help around the house. 

There are many other 'symptoms' that I have not mentioned here, but having read up on Bipolar Disorder I will just mention that the girl seriously believes that she wants a life on the stage, probably in a soap opera type role, and yet she says she is too shy to phone her Doctor for an appointment. All evry odd. 

Thanks again. 

DM


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dotty Mum said:


> Well, thank you all for your helpful comments. We have plenty to think about!
> 
> To answer the question above, the girl has told our son, and others that she has led an awful, torrid life, and that she was badly treated by her parents.
> 
> We cannot know how true this is, but we have met the girl's mother several times. She seems a decent enough type, and is very talkative. She and the girl's father split up when she was about nine, which I guess would be traumatic for any child, but the parents maintain an amicable relationship, both attending family events and so forth, which is probably a better situation than many children of 'single parents' have to live under. Our son has met the girl's father, and he says that he seems 'OK', and is friendly.


Your reluctance to categorically believe what the girl says about her homelife is right. 

I raised my step daughter from age 10. She’s 23 now. She was angry and hurt by her parent’s divorce. She brought up suicide a lot. She self mutilated. Bad mouthed me to anyone who would listen. It got so bad that her friends, who liked me, started telling her to stop the drama. Her antics controlled our household. We did family and her individual counseling for years. Then she snapped out of it at about 20 and apologized to me for all the terrible lies she spread about me, the drama, etc. She and now laugh at the things she used to pull. But it was not funny living through it. 
I’ll bet that your son’s gf is doing the kind of thing that my SD did. She gets a lot of power with her antics. This is how she has learned to control her environment.
You might want to consider telling her mother and father about the suicide comments. They might not know what she’s up to. 



Dotty Mum said:


> We have no way of knowing what things were like behind closed doors, but if what we believe is true it all seems to support the view that the girl does indeed have some form of mental problem.
> 
> We believe the girl's relationship with her mother is often turbulent, but that is nothing unusual for a teenager is it! Apart from anything else, we understand that the girl's reckless spending often gets her into trouble with her mother, whilst she is always 'too tired' to help around the house.
> 
> ...


Don’t know what to say… I just hope your son wises up quickly.


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## limabeans (Sep 23, 2013)

John Lee said:


> Note how you are framing it "too generous" -- yes, you're generous with your children, but you're also doing them harm by not teaching them to fend for themselves. That aspect of it is not really "generous."


Exactly. You're preventing him from becoming an adult. He'll graduate with no freaking idea of how the workplace works.

These guys end up stunted, entitled, full of passive aggression and unemployable. I know, I was married to one of them. 

Is that what you want for his future? It sounds like he's showing signs of co-dependency with this borderline/narcissistic girlfriend.

If he has to go serve bagels in the student union on weekends, he won't be able to spend them with the gf!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

Dotty Mum said:


> There are many other 'symptoms' that I have not mentioned here, but having read up on Bipolar Disorder I will just mention that the girl seriously believes that she wants a life on the stage....


Dotty, perhaps she does have bipolar disorder. I agree with Kathy, however, that the behaviors you describe are far closer to the traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). I say this based on my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW and my bipolar-1 foster son. 

One reason you seem to be describing BPD traits is that the event-triggered hissy fits you mention are characteristic of BPD temper tantrums. They usually start in a few seconds and typically last several hours. 

In contrast, a bipolar mood change typically takes two weeks to develop and lasts for several weeks, sometimes several months. (Although rapid cycling is possible with bipolar, it is uncommon and is not what you are describing.) For a description of 12 differences between BPD and bipolar behaviors, please see my post at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/physical-mental-health-issues/59344-confused.html#post1175425.

Further, I note that many other behaviors you describe are classic BPD traits. These include:


Threats of suicide;
Always being "The Victim;"
Very controlling, clingy behavior (demanding he come over on a minute's notice);
Constant attention seeking (e.g., repeated faints and frequent inhaler use);
Strong fear of abandonment -- evident in the suicide threats when he leaves and in the way she isolates him away from his supportive friends and family members;
Low self esteem (feeling "rubbish at everything"); and
Rapid flips -- triggered in seconds based on some trivial comment -- between loving him and devaluing him.
 I therefore suggest you follow the link Kathy provided above and read her description of BPD traits. If most of those traits sound very familiar, I suggest you send a copy of _Stop Walking on Eggshells_ to your son. It is the best-selling BPD book targeted to the abused partners. 

However, if you fear that he won't be receptive to advice coming from his own parents, I suggest you give him the book surreptitiously, perhaps by dropping a copy in the front seat of his car when it is not parked near your house. If his GF really does have strong BPD traits, he will find that the _Eggshells_ book will read like a biography of her life.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Dotty Mum said:


> Thank you again for your comments. Looking back we have probably been too generous to all of our children, but that is just how we are.


Your kids will all be different. What works with one will backfire for another, as you are seeing. What your son needs is tough love and NO MORE CODDLING.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Dotty Mum said:


> Well, thank you all for your helpful comments. We have plenty to think about!
> 
> To answer the question above, the girl has told our son, and others that she has led an awful, torrid life, and that she was badly treated by her parents.
> 
> ...


What difference does any of this make? You don't like her, you have a right not to like her, and her behavior sounds like a good reason not to like her, whatever justification she has for it. But you have no power to end her relationship with your son. You do have the power to talk to him about it, although that might backfire depending on your son's personality. You also have the power to be more responsible with him -- yes YOU are being irresponsible by not setting limits on what you do for him, and in turn he is not learning to be responsible. If you take care of your end, i.e. parenting, there's a good chance he'll figure out the rest for himself. Instead what you're really implying is "we want to pay for everything and have control over who he dates." You can't have that. You can limit the money you give him and put him into a position where he'll have to be more responsible for himself. I really believe that doing otherwise in this situation is actually doing him harm.


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Opposites attract.

The ONLY reason why your son has not rebelled is because you financially support him. If he had his own job and his own money, he would drop you like a bad habit. Mom's and dad's don't ever get to chose who their 20 year old son dates and what not. Remember, every single person has their own problems whether it's depression, annoyance, cheating, sick, attention seeking, emotional, etc. I'm pretty sure you have yours. No one is perfect enough for your son - no one. 

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe your son is in love with this girl? As a parent, no matter what he decides, you are suppose to have his back. 

The girl that I am with came from an abusive family - dad always worked and mom got drunk and would beat her. She became depressed - was addicted to cocaine AT 14 years old - ended up in rehab - was kicked out of her house - etc etc etc. She NEVER had a mother-daughter relationship in her life, so OF COURSE, she was going to be nervous in front of my mom and not talk. She had no idea what it was like to sit at a family dinner before. Don't ever assume anything about someone because most depressed, suicidal teens don't have the life everyone else has. She has her emotions every now and then in present time but I deal with them - it's a lot better than dealing with the cheating, money spending, annoyance, etc that other females present. I love this girl and just like your husband is willing to do anything for you.. so is your son for his girl. 

And I know you do not want to hear this, but as a guy, another thing that keeps us going is when the sex is really good. So that is always a HUGE factor in young relationships.

Your son is probably the only person that keeps her happy. Going to parties does not make someone happy. It's just something to do. Actually, people die at parties all the time. Your son happened to find someone from the other side of the table just like all the rich guys who marry super hot women that come from nothing. It is what it is. She'll grow up, she's still young.


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## Dotty Mum (Oct 21, 2013)

Thank you all again for your advice. 

I did not want to be too specific about our son's studies for obvious reasons, but I would like to explain the financial situation as this seems to be key. 

Our son is a second-year music student studying at a music school (conservatory). He also has a music scholarship which provides him with a modest income and provides additional experience. 

The scholarship in particular takes a lot of his time at weekends, and means that he has to get up very early, usually returning to halls at about 8.00 pm. He also has to go out on Tuesday and Thursday evenings for rehearsals. 

This makes it difficult for our son to work at MacDonald's or wherever, as he simply wouldn't be able to put in the hours that they require. This is why we have to provide some continuing financial support. 

Looking on the bright side, our son's weekend commitments have significantly reduced his girlfriend's visits. She would be welcome to tag along if she wanted to, but she would have to get up early in the morning, and would have to observe from a distance; neither of which she will do. 

I would also like to reassure you all that our son does have a strong work ethic, and has previously worked. It is only this summer, and under the controlling influence of his girlfriend that he that found it impossible to work. 

Regarding his girlfriend and her parents; we only have second-hand information about her home life and background; although as I said last night, her parents, whilst separated, seem decent enough people. 

While I agree it is entirely possible that she had an awful upbringing, I have serious doubts about this as the girl had two university offers; one close to home, and the other about two hundred miles away, (but nearer to our son). 

If I hated my parents and my home life I wold take the opportunity of moving as far away from home as possible, and I would return home as rarely as possible. Yet this girl chose to study at a second-rate university close to home, so she could continue to live at home. 

How does this figure? 

Secondly, looking at the girl's Facebook comments, the depressive periods seem to last for several weeks, followed by brighter periods of a few days. 

Some recent comments were: 

"Bought four new pairs of converse (shoes) and loads of new clothes today, someone please take my card off me :$ "

Then: "don't judge someone until you know what they've been through."

And: "I have never wanted sleep so much in my life, had such a bad day today now I can't wait to snuggle in bed and not move till tomorrow."

And: I cannot wait for a day in bed on Friday, feel ill as anything... 

Finally, I have not mentioned my husband, but he has said from day one that the girl is (in his words) 'unhinged', and has little time for her. He always did what he could to help them both, but this stopped soon after she complained to our son about my husband's driving and the (non PC) comments that he made whilst listening to the news on the car radio!


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Dotty Mum said:


> Thank you all again for your advice.
> 
> I did not want to be too specific about our son's studies for obvious reasons, but I would like to explain the financial situation as this seems to be key.
> 
> ...


None of which explains why you can't set a limit on how much money you give him. If he absolutely can't work during the week because of his demanding conservatory schedule, why not work holidays and summers for the extra money? Or how about he just learns to live within a budget based on what you give him and stick to it?

What are you going to do when he's out of school and he's a "struggling musician"? There's always going to be an excuse. He'll still "need" your help. He won't be able to work a regular job because of the demanding practice schedule. He'll have a few lesson students, but somehow not quite enough to make the rent. Etc.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> He is entirely dependent on us financially, so whatever goes wrong we pay for! As an example, we gave our son a living allowance towards his costs whilst at Uni, but he is now asking for more because he has spent a fortune with Interflora trying to cheer up his girlfriend who cannot bear to be parted from him.
> 
> We just cannot see any way out of it. We can hardly tell him to starve.


I have a son in college as well. 

The thing is, you have to learn to pick your battles. In this instance, it is beneficially to teach your son how to budget and live within his means. He has x amount of money to spend per month. That money includes food, clothing, shelter and school expenses. Should he need additional funds, he may have to consider getting a job to support his dating habits. 

You can use this as a teaching moment about basic finances and still remain neutral in regards to his social life. There is no reason that he should expect you to pay for his social life. That isn't part of the deal, and if he misses a meal (starves) in order to date, he may learn on his own that it isn't working for him.

Mom to Mom, I'm telling you from experience. I understand what you are saying. I know it seems hard, but you are teaching your son something very important which is to live within his means and budget accordingly or get a job (which incidentally cuts into his social life as well - a plus) and to be more responsible. 

My son goes to college and has a full time job as well. His focus is on his education and the ability to live within his means. Yes, I sometimes do send him a bit extra so he doesn't starve, but he would not dare ask me (on top of everything else) for "dating" money. His social life is planned within his own means, and I am proud of the way he manages. Give your son the same opportunity to learn to take care of himself.


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> Seriously, we don't mind who he goes out with, but this girl's behaviour is strange to say the least, and she always creates a difficult atmosphere in our home. We actually liked her at first, but it seems the more we try to make her welcome the more difficult she becomes.
> 
> Unfortunately it is difficult to for our son to work during Uni term as he has a very intensive course. *His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then.* None of her immediate family work, so she doesn't seem to understand that others need to.
> 
> ...


Oh really? He can't work to earn money because his gf is a priority on the weekends? Who made up that rule? Should not his "priority" be to get an education, to become self-supporting and then consider his social life?

You see, as a parent, it's up to you to guide your children into becoming responsible adults. While on the one hand, you can treat him like an adult and accept his idiotic decisions (yes, I know, I've been there..lol) but you also have to allow them to accept the consequences of their decisions. It's a learning experience and your job as a parent is to guide them. Obviously your son doesn't *need *to drop everything for his gf on the weekends, he chooses this. He needs to also accept the consequences whatever they may be.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can't control your kid. You can only control yourself. This is about your personal boundaries and fears. You are afraid that if you don't give your son everything then he will be unhappy and hate you. Studies show that spoiled kids who are raised by parents who tolerate too much are the unhappy ones.

Your personal boudaries should be that if she is in your house she is expected to treat you properly or else she is not allowed in your house. Regarding your son, you should pay him a certain amount every month and no more.

Sometimes as a parent you must withhold resources and allow your kid to make their own mistakes and live with the consequences. That is what being a GOOD parent entails. A BAD parent enables inappropriate actions which then set the kid up for a miserable future.


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## IrishGirlVA (Aug 27, 2012)

The only extra money I'd throw his way is for condoms.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Dotty Mum said:


> Thank you all again for your advice.
> 
> This makes it difficult for our son to work at MacDonald's or wherever, as he simply wouldn't be able to put in the hours that they require. This is why we have to provide some continuing financial support.
> 
> ...


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

My sister has a boyfriend and they can't be parted, she can't work a whole lot because of school and the time she's with him. She's 22, my parents are paying the rent on their shared apartment (not just her half, his half too, because they can't work and not be together). 

Honestly, putting a stop on the gravy train wherein he has free access to your money to keep treating her like a princess while having no obligation or responsibility to have to work to provide the lifestyle she enjoys might make him wise up to the dynamics of their relationship. And - him not working might not really help him when he graduates and essentially has no work history. 

While I'd like to hope he graduates and gets a job with the local philharmonic immediately, we all know that's not very likely, particularly not immediately. So when school ends, and he can't find a job and he's not allowed to have a job because he has to spend all his time with her, are you still going to pay the bills then?


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

In fact, not to cast doubt on your son's talent, which I'm sure he has in spades, but music is an extraordinarily difficult field to earn a living in, especially if you're talking about just performing. There was an article in the New York Times a while back that said that only about 25% of JULLIARD graduates are earning a living in music x years later, and that's easily one of the top five conservatories in the country if not the top. If he's going to stay in music, he's going to have to learn to be financially resourceful -- hustling for teaching jobs and weekend wedding gigs, saving money for the times when work is scarce, etc. When do you think he ought to start learning to fend for himself? When he's 25? 30? 35?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

She makes you uncomfortable in your OWN HOUSE, so its pretty simple...tell him that she is no longer allowed in your home! If he wants to see her, then he can make his own arrangements to do so. She is a messed up individual who is controlling his life, and you are enabling her to do so. The harder you make it for him to be with her, the more chance that he is going to make the smart decision that she isnt worth it. I commend you for wanting to do for your son so that he can be successful, but he needs to do his part at this point too, and having HER in his life is NOT conducive to his success. Stand up for your home, your comfort, and in the long run, your son.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> His GF visits at weekends so he cannot work then.


Say what? That is HIS choice. Which he makes because he gets money for food from you. Give him $20/week for food and nothing else. Let him figure it out then. Better yet, if the school has a food plan, pay for that; he'll have no money to give to HER.


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