# Need some of that expert TAM wisdom



## sideways

I came across this site a few months ago, and I've been following a number of the posts to see what kind of advice is given. I have to say I've been extremely impressed so far, and thus I'd like to tap into some of this wisdom if at all possible.

Here's my situation. I've been with my wife for 17 yrs now, and we have two kids (12 & 10 yrs old). My wife is a very beautiful woman (looks like Blake Lively), and for the first 10 yrs or so I would say our sex life was great. I don't say she's beautiful to come across as ****y or arrogant, but to say that more then likely she's being hit on.

I feel like trust is earned, and one of the reasons why I married my wife (after dating her for over 3 yrs) was she had proven herself to be trustworthy. The last thing I ever want to be in, is a relationship where I don't trust the woman and I turn into a detective. 

Maybe I'm wrong doing this, but I've never been one to ask her about men hitting on her (and she certainly doesn't bring it up either). She's actively involved on Facebook, and again I've never asked her if anyone has made overtures to her there or not. 

My wife is a SAHM, and for the past 4-5 yrs we've scheduled it so that we have alone time twice a week (sex). Over the last couple of yrs, my wife doesn't want to kiss me anymore, and being with me the two times a week is now basically a chore. Get it over as quickly as possible. I've tried countless times to talk to her about this, but it goes on deaf ears. I work out, eat good, and haven't let myself go physically.

She's in her late 40"s, and I don't know if this could be attributed to menopause coming on? She never lets her cell phone stray too far, and she has a pass code on it (which I find strange nor do I have the code). She also has a code on her laptop.

I have no idea if something is going on behind my back, but I'd like to know. She volunteers at the kids school a few hrs a week, and she helps out a little bit watching my parents a few times a week as well (my mom has cancer and my dad is in his early 90's). Besides this she has a lot of free time during the day M-F. 

How do I go about doing this? I am planning on going to the store to get a VAR, and will put it in her car. If I put it under her car seat won't it start recording if she turns the radio on? If so won't the VAR fill up real quick? How much recording time do these things have, and is it something that I would need to be checking every day?

As for her cell phone (again which she never lets go of) I have no way of getting into it. She just upgraded her iPhone to another iPhone, and she gave the old one to my son (he uses it to look at youtube etc). Would I be able to take this old phone, and be able to get old texts off of it? If so how?

I use a different cell carrier then her. She uses AT&T (cell), and the bill comes to her. I have my land line on AT&T as well (under my name), and I could tell her that I'm now bundling these things together and thus her cell phone would now be on my account and thus I would have access to her phone records (and her texts as well, correct)? If so is it just the text #s, or could I actually see what was texted?

I have no idea if something is going on now, but I'd also like to see if something went down in the past as well. As I said previously the last thing I want to be is a detective, but something just doesn't seem right and I want to know what is going on (or what went down in the past). If I went to her directly with my concerns she'd just deny it. 

How do I go about doing this?

Could certainly use some advice on this, and thanks for taking the time to read this.


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## farsidejunky

Paging @GusPolinski.


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## farsidejunky

You are effectively in the dark, OP.

I find it interesting that you do not already have a joint cell account. Has it always been this way? 

Ultimately, that saves money in the long run, and you may just do as you said and approach her over merging the accounts.

I paged Gus on the last post. I am certain he can help you with recovering information from the old phone if it is possible.

How tech savvy is your wife?


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## Graywolf2

Look Here: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Don’t change anything or let on that you’re suspicious at all at least until you have monitoring methods in place. Then let her know that you're suspicious.

Ideally you use the monitoring methods to get concrete proof. Never reveal what the monitoring methods are. Make her think that friends saw her or you hired a PI. 

With your monitoring methods in place reveal that you’re suspicious but hold your best proof in reserve. Listen to the fallout. She will want to discuss it with her girlfriends or warn the other man (OM). 

The best outcome is for you to hear her tell a girlfriend that nothing is going on and you’re crazy.


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## badmemory

Insisting on a joint cell account is the first step. Then you can look to see what numbers she's calling/texting, how often and when. You could use a web service to try to identify unknown numbers (it's not that expensive). I'd do this before a VAR because that information from the cell records will help you decide how to use it best, but that's just me.

There are ways to get around her computer pass code, but I'd suggest that you find an excuse to use her computer and ask for her code. That would be easier. Then I would put key logger software on it when she's not around.

You can get plenty of help with all of this here; and if you follow the surveillance advice there's an excellent chance you'll catch her - if she's cheating. Here's hoping she's not.

If you don't find anything after a few weeks - then I'd insist that she share all her pass codes with you going forward. Transparency is a reasonable expectation in a marriage.

Keep posting.


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## turnera

Yeah, I'd say that it's time to review all 'systems' (bills, insurance, electronics, etc.) and make sure the family is operating as efficiently as possible, and then decide to combine the phone bills.


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## 86857

I wouldn't alert her in any way that you are being detective. And don't feel bad about doing so. Your gut is telling you something may be amiss so you have no choice but to check it out or live with the unease. 
Don't ask for passcodes etc. 
I wouldn't even bundle the phone bill now. 
*The worst thing you can do now is have her suspect you're watching her because she will delete any evidence. 
*
Did she always passcode her devices? Or is it only since you noticed the change in her? 

With the VAR, I think it is also advised to buy a cheap set of earphones, plug them into it & cut off the lead. This is to prevent any beeps etc being heard by her. 

Having physical access to her old phone is a bonus. 
Everything should still be on there if it hasn't been backed-up since she stopped using it, even deleted texts. 
Don't back it up! 
Make sure to have the setting in iTunes set to, 'do not automatically back up the device/iPhone'. 
You need some software, there are many out there, Wondershare Dr.Fone for iOS, iPhone Backup Extractor etc.


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## Yeswecan

Was her iPhone backed up on the computer?


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## Marduk

There is very little to indicate she's cheating. 

There is also very little reassurance that she's not. 

It looks like you've been running this marriage with your hand off the tiller and now it's off course. 

Put your hand back on the tiller. 

My first blush read is that she's not attracted to you any more. 

Are you in shape? Are you romancing her? Flirting with her? Is sex exciting and new or the same boring same old? Are you a good kisser?

Have you asked her if she's bored?

Have you asked her why her computer, phone, and Facebook are private?

Do you know what her fantasies are? Turn ons? Are you doing them?

Time to start leading your marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable

I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.


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## 5Creed

Something is going on with her as she seems to be feeling quite distanced from you ie; that sex is now a chore to her and she no longer wants to even kiss you. Have you suggested marriage counseling to her for you both? What did she say about it? From what you posted, she isn't at all on the same page with her if you have tried to talk to her about the intimacy in your marriage. When a woman treats her husband this way then something serious is happening and you need to find out what it is. Another man, a mid-life crisis, questioning her life etc. The thing is the person she should be leaning on is you and she isn't doing that.

As you know from reading other posts here, guarding her cell phone with a code and not letting you have access to it is a big red flag. How about you ask to see her phone and she how she reacts?


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## Cynthia

unbelievable said:


> I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.


I have a passcode on my computer and my phone. My son tends to use any electronic item in his vicinity and I don't like him messing with my stuff. My husband never said a word about it until recently, so I showed him my passcode for my computer and he just said, "What! I could never remember that!" I told him he could write it down, but he lost interest immediately after realizing it was complicated. 

As far as sex drive, her not wanting to kiss you is not, imo, sex drive related. I wonder if she has some sort of anger issue with you. Has something happened that deeply offended her or made her feel unloved? Aside from checking up to see if there is someone else, it is important to start closely observing her and how she relates to you. It sounds like she's lost that emotional connection and needs to feel wanted and loved by you.


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## GusPolinski

Given how "in the dark" you are w/ respect to your wife's devices, passwords, etc, I'd probably start w/ a VAR. I wouldn't worry about the radio; if she's talking on the phone, she'll turn it down. And unless she's driving for hours at a time, it shouldn't really fill up. That said, some of the Sony VARs do support micro SD cards for memory expansion.

Be sure to read @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread here in CWI for tips regarding VAR configuration and placement (Pro tip: use lithium batteries and lots of Velcro.)

Casually mention bundling your different ATT accounts in order to gauge your wife's reaction.

Have you mentioned marriage counseling to your wife? If not, do that, making sure to mention your dissatisfaction w/ what seems to be her rather perfunctory commitment to your sex life, and take note of her reaction.

Don't mention the ATT account bundling and MC within the same conversation. In fact, I'd probably wait at least 2-3 days after mentioning one before bringing up the other.

Maybe mention the account bundling after spending some time paying bills, or looking into a new phone for yourself, etc, so that the conversation seems organic. Along the same lines, maybe wait to mention MC until the day _after_ the next time you have sex.

When your wife gave her old phone to your son, did she factory reset it first or did she just delete a bunch of stuff? Does he have his own iTunes/iCloud account, or does he have his own? Does he use the old phone as an iPod/media device, or does he use it as a phone? If you don't know the answer to these questions, DON'T ASK HER. Hell... don't ask him, either.

Random thoughts...

What kind of cell phone do YOU use?

What do you do for a living?

On a scale of 1 to 10, how tech savvy would you say you are? How about your wife?

Does your wife use a Windows or Mac laptop?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Graywolf2

unbelievable said:


> I read it rather quickly but it seems to me the only reason you have to suspect anything is that her sexual desire has noticeably diminished. Given her age, that's entirely normal and I'd think biology was a more likely culprit than some other dude. She's got two pre-teens. Maybe the passcodes are more to keep them out of her stuff than to keep you out.


*The above is all true.
*
However, my guess is that she’s around 40 and that seems to be a very dangerous age even for happily married women. 

Risk factors:
Empty nest or kids don’t need her as much anymore
Back to school or back to work
Limited number of sexual partners

This might be called a midlife crisis. They want to prove that they still have it before it’s gone. They are very susceptible to compliments and attention from other men. This is true even if their husband frequently tells them he loves them and how beautiful they are. This is because the husband is supposed to say those things and it counts much more if a stranger says them.

Has she lost weight or started to care more about her appearance?


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## SofaKingWeToddId

I think it is a good idea to be vigilant, but let's not jump to conclusions that this is an affair. There really isn't much evidence at this point. Work on building attraction. Look up Athol Kay. He has some good books on 'gaming' your wife.


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## G.J.

sideways said:


> My wife is a *SAHM*
> 
> Besides this she has a* lot of free time *during the day M-F.
> 
> How do I go about doing this? I am planning on going to the store to get a VAR, and will put it in her car.


My only ADD to advice currently given is to buy two VARs and put one in the house hidden as she will be talking on the phone more there than the confines of her car 

Some of the VARs have quite long recording sessions


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## MAJDEATH

Have you noticed any recent changes to personal appearance, grooming, makeup, etc?


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## convert

Gus is right if she did not factory reset the old phone your son is using you could recover deleted texts from it.
and don't let her know or your son know you are doing the recovery on the old phone.

the old phone and the VARs will be the easiest things to do at this point.


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## sideways

Farside
We have always used different cell phone carriers.
She is very tech savy. Me not so much.

Gray
I didn't plan on approaching her about anything until I have some time to monitor her.

Badmemory
Plan on getting her cell on my carrier.

Moon shadow
She's had the passcode since the kids got a little older.

Yeswecan
No idea if her iPhone is backed up on her computer. More then likely it is.

Marduk
I've definitely had my hand off the "tiller".
I am in shape. Work out five times a week, and I eat good.
I try to romance her, however it's really been tough to do lately as my mother has cancer and I've been the one who's been taking her to countless Dr apps etc.
I feel like I'm a good kisser. Never had any complaints in the past. In fact any woman I've ever dated (including my wife) have told me I'm a great kisser.
Haven't asked her if she's bored, or why the pass codes on the devices.
As for fantasies, she doesn't like to talk about this stuff. Trust me I've tried numerous times over 17 yrs. She just doesn't want to talk about it.

As I mentioned we have sex two times a week. I'm not complaining about the quantity, however I'm not too thrilled that it's basically a chore now and she wants to do it as quickly as possible.

Unbelievable
The pass codes could definitely be because of the kids. My youngest has from time to time liked to snoop.

5Creed
She use to be up for anything sexual (for the most part). When I've brought this up to her she now says, "she's changed, and she's not into like she used to be". When I've brought up going to the Dr to see if there's anything possibly wrong with her she says she will however she never follows through.

If I asked her for her cell phone she would definitely hand it over to me without hesitation. She'd ask why I would want it, but she'd give it to me. If there was anything going on my wife would definitely be deleting any evidence even though she had a pass code on it.

CynthiaDe
I think the grind of raising two kids is wearing on her. The kids have a few activities they're involved in, but she was an only child and she never got to do anything growing up. So she likes to take the kids to all different places. They're always going. There's a group of kids they play with, and she's friends with the other mom's. So they quite a bit together. Even if it's just playing at the park.

Gus
MC hasn't been brought up.
She just gave my son her old iPhone. He doesn't have iTunes nor is it used to make calls on. Just uses it to make notes, look at pics, etc. All her contacts are still on the phone, and you can still see the call history. She upgraded a couple of weeks ago it looks like as there's calls up to about two weeks ago.
I have a Samsung S6.
I am a recruiter, and I own another business (food retail product).
Tech savy? Me...probably about a 3.
Her about a 8-9.
She has an HP laptop.

Gray wolf
She's actually put on a few #s over the past few yrs, however she still looks amazing. 

GJ
Plan on buying two VAR, and will put one by her desk as well.

Majdeath
No changes in her appearance.


My gut tells me there isn't anything going on right now, however as for in the past? Not so sure. Not that there was anything that happened that makes me feel this way. No idea how I would be able to prove anything went down in the past, however I will definitely monitor her, and if anything comes up at all that's a red flag then I will have NO hesitation making her take a polygraph. If she resisted then that would be all the evidence I would need, and I would be prepared to leave.


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## Thound

Sounds like perimenopause/menopause to me. If so hang on to your nutz. Its going to be a bumpy ride for awhile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cynthia

Thound said:


> Sounds like perimenopause/menopause to me. If so hang on to your nutz. Its going to be a bumpy ride for awhile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Could be. Some women become more energized, others become LD. Other stay the same. It depends on the hormones.

How are her eating habits? Does she eat a lot of grain? Does she eat a lot of vegetables, I don't mean some vegetables, but a lot of them?

Does she get exercise?


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## Marduk

Next time she's on her computer, say "hey babe, there's this blog post I was going to show you" and move in on her.

If she freaks out and pushes you away, you have something to worry about. If she doesn't, I'd chill on the magnum PI stuff a bit.

For sure what I'd say to her is "Wife, I know I haven't exactly been mr exiting to be around sex-wise. It's my intention to rectify that, starting now." And then kiss her passionately and start taking her clothes off.

If she stops you, take no for an answer without being needy or whiny in any way. 

And then ask her why she's become disinterested in sex with you. She'll likely deny it, just let her talk. Who knows, she might drop something on you when she realizes you're listening to her. Don't say a word, just look her in the eyes, nodding every once in a while.


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## GusPolinski

marduk said:


> Next time she's on her computer, say "hey babe, there's this blog post I was going to show you" and move in on her.
> 
> If she freaks out and pushes you away, you have something to worry about. If she doesn't, I'd chill on the magnum PI stuff a bit.


If you do this (and it's not a bad idea), @sideways, you damn well better have a blog to show her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> If you do this (and it's not a bad idea), @sideways, you damn well better have a blog to show her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's a good one:
What Keeps Couples Happy Long Term - WSJ


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## turnera

How many hours a week do the two of you spend together away from kids and electronics? Having a coffee together, going for a walk, trying out a new restaurant, gardening together, shopping for clothes, etc.? Women often easily fall into a maintainer role if the man doesn't keep up the pursuing role. IMO, that's why your sex fell off - you became just another figure in the family she's responsible for, not her lover. To stay her lover, you have to stay dating her - one on one time, no distractions, eye contact, touching, being playful and coy and play-demanding. Still doing all that?


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## Acoa

Doesn't seem like any glaring red flags. Risk factors are high, so you are wise to be on alert. It's more likely your gut would be screaming at you if there were an issue. 

Watch her hands when she unlocks her phone, you can easily pickup the pattern and memorize her passcode if you are observant. One day when she is in shower have a quick look. 

If you have had your hand off the tiller in the relationship, she just may be feeling burnt out and taken for granted. Start being more involved in her day to day world. Raising kids can be emotionally draining, be sure you are doing your part in sharing that burden.


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## Satya

OP, there should be no reason she cannot share any of her passwords with you. There should be no secrets in marriage.


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## Be smart

I think you should not worry about cheating,but you really need to talk with your wife about your Marriage.

First your life seems boring to me,sorry. You even have dates for a sex night and after some time it looks like a chore to be honest. Why dont you take your wife to a nice play or some riding around the city. Stop at some hotel or down the road and see what happens. Some changes are always good my friend.

Also you dont spend enough time with each other. She is at home almost all the time with kids,you have your job then you have your gym dates Five Times per week. Maybe you can take her with you or cut it to lets say three times. Then dont forget your parents,your mom is having medical problems,dad is to old. Seems to me like you see each other only in the morning.

Having paswords on her facebook,mail and other accounts is a bad thing. In good Marriage there is no need to hide something from your husband/wife,right. Talk with her about this and check those accounts just to be sure.

Stay strong.


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## sideways

Marduk
If I wanted to get on her laptop (for whatever reason) she'd let me with no resistance. She'd give me her code as well.

Definitely need to get going on the "rectifying"!!

Tunera
We have so much going on. I work out in the morning while she gets the kids going for school, then working, shuffling kids off to activities, taking care of my mom, tough to find the time, but point taken. Needs to be a priority, and need to schedule the time into the hectic days/nights. 

Acoa
My intent is to dig deeper even though there aren't major flags (right now). Made a few calls today on retrieving info off her old phone (and it may be possible they just need to see the phone to determine). Will try the VAR as well. Obviously the ideal outcome would be to not find anything. Just want some peace of mind knowing what's going on behind my back, and that there's still trust in the relationship.

Satya
I feel very confident that if I asked her for her codes she'd give them to me with no hesitation. If she is/was guilty I know her well, and she would be deleting each email or text as she went along. Thus why she would give me access to the cell or laptop.

So glad I posted. Such great advice and I will definitely follow through on many of these suggestions. I'd also like to say thank you to everyone who has replied (and who will). I know all of you are busy with your lives (and own problems), and to take a few minutes to share your wisdom (which many times came from experiencing heartache), I'm very humbled and grateful.

Will keep you posted.


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## sideways

BeSmart
Yes my life right now definitely is "boring". We try to go out just the two of us every few weeks. Go downtown, dinner, few drinks at places afterwards, sometimes even a hotel. However my mother is really sick right now, and it's been tough to do this because the two people we would leave our kids with (my mom) as well as my sister (who's helping with my parents at night) aren't able to watch them. Plus there's been so much going on.

These are all reasons, but I agree with you we need to do a much better job of taking time to be with each other. Scheduling sex sounded pathetic to me a few yrs ago, but since it's been this way it's helped immensely. The quantity isn't the problem, but I just want to know the attitude of just doing it as a chore is due to neglect (on my part or by both of us) or being tired vs something else she may be doing or done in the past? This has gone on for WAY too long, and I need some answers to have peace of mind moving forward.

I don't think I'm off base wanting this (needing this). If I am please do share your thoughts on this?


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## GusPolinski

If she didn't wipe (i.e. factory reset) the phone, it should be possible to retrieve at least _some_ data from it. That said, if iOS has been updated recently, you *might* be hosed.

An app like Wondershare Dr. Fone or iPhone Backup Extractor should work pretty well. I'll warn you know, though... running recovery tools against the device itself, a local iTunes backup, OR a backup stored in iCloud *might* trigger a notification e-mail to the e-mail address linked to her iCloud account. Do you happen to have the password to that account?

Do you happen to know if she uses any ephemeral messaging apps like WhatsApp, SnapChat, Kik, Viber, Line, etc?

If you're determined to look, installing a keylogger on her laptop should provide quite a bit of insight into her online activities, especially in terms of e-mail and social media accounts, passwords, etc. You'll have to take special care to configure any antivirus anti-malware software on the computer in such a way that it doesn't detect the keylogger, though, so be aware of that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jsmart

You need to get passwords and access to her, phone, email, social media, laptop, and tablet.
Just as she should have access to yours. You should velcro a VAR under the passenger seat of her car. If something is up, they usually have a friend that they regale with their dalliances.

But to be honest, it could be a case of you needing to up your sex rank to attract her. Be honest with yourself, have you let yourself go. Are you helping around the house? Do you surprise her with a small gift every once in a while? You mention that you take her out but how's your interaction? Are you the couple that sits at the table in silence with nothing to talk about but the kids? 

I'm going to recommend that you read Athol Kay's MMSL primer. It's a how to guide on improving yourself to become a better man and husband to enable you to attract your wife enough to improve your sex life.


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## sideways

Gus, I don't have any of her codes or know if she's using any other apps. Certainly don't want her receiving any type of notification tipping her off so I need to consider this. May just start with the VAR.


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## sideways

Jsmart she can get on my computer anytime she wants. No code for my emails, and computer is on all the time. She knows the computer code. My cell has no code either. Will definitely do the VAR.

I do quite a bit around the house. I cook, do laundry, help with kids, on top of doing two jobs and dealing with my mom. I haven't let myself go, but I can certainly take it up a notch as well. I do get her things from time to time (as well as flowers), and when we do go out we do have things to talk about. We have fun. We just don't do it enough.


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## Affaircare

@sideways, 

At this time, I don't really see very much evidence that she may be cheating. After all, there are legitimate reasons for having just a password on a phone or laptop, especially if the kids are old enough to occasionally try to sneak on! 

I think it may be reasonable to start with two VARs and just see what happens from there. My guess--and seriously, this is just a gut feeling based on intuition from what you've written--is that it's not an affair so much as things just got in a rut and got "stale." 

For example, for many women the way to really get a response sexually is to start with some romance throughout the whole day so she feels connected and close to you. If you've been "doing your thing" and she's been "doing her thing" and the sex is regular but feeling routine, it may be that she just doesn't feel all that connected to you. When was the last time you did something together that you both love and just had fun? Is there anything the two of you both love or are passionate about? Do you have any mutual interests? Do you talk to her and listen to her (rather than thinking about how you're going to respond)? Do you view her as a best friend and share jokes and laughs with her? 

Most people jump right from "routine" to a fancy dinner, roses, fancy hotel...and expect that to instantly re-connect and result in mind-blowing sex, but I think it might be something as easy as just getting some new hobby or sport you both want to do...and then talking about the new recreation and having fun and doing it together and talking strategy, etc. and then trying one different thing in the bedroom. If your "scheduled days" are Wednesdays and Saturdays--try a new position or a take longer or take shorter or try a different day just to change things up a little. 

My point here is that the feeling I get isn't necessarily unfaithfulness yet--but the environment of things getting routine and getting lax is a perfect set up for it! So I'd start with two VARS and also step up your game a little.


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## sideways

Affaircare I hope it is just disconnecting over time. I do need to carve out quality time to spend with her and to listen to her. Thinking a way to do this would be over lunch from time to time. As you suggest really listening to her. She's definitely my best friend, but we're both guilty of getting caught up in all the chaos. Will do the VAR to start. Thanks again for your sharing your thoughts on this!


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## Cynthia

sideways said:


> Affaircare I hope it is just disconnecting over time. I do need to carve out quality time to spend with her and to listen to her. Thinking a way to do this would be over lunch from time to time. As you suggest really listening to her. She's definitely my best friend, but we're both guilty of getting caught up in all the chaos. Will do the VAR to start. Thanks again for your sharing your thoughts on this!


I agree with Affaircare. I think your wife sounds disconnected and vulnerable to an affair, but if she were involved in one, it is likely that the sex would stop entirely. Not many women can regularly have sex with more than one man. 

It seems to me that she is hurt about something or just not feeling connected to you. That emotional connection is what keeps the fires burning. If it's not there, something has to change to bring it back. If you're too busy for your marriage, you're just plain too busy, because the marriage should be the #1 priority to the family unit.


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## Marduk

sideways said:


> Affaircare I hope it is just disconnecting over time. I do need to carve out quality time to spend with her and to listen to her. Thinking a way to do this would be over lunch from time to time. As you suggest really listening to her. She's definitely my best friend, but we're both guilty of getting caught up in all the chaos. Will do the VAR to start. Thanks again for your sharing your thoughts on this!


If she's your best friend and you don't have evidence of cheating, I'm curious why you're jumping to a VAR instead of jumping to date nights.


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## alte Dame

I don't think it would be the wisest move to record her without her knowledge when you have so little in the way of real suspicion of an affair.


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## Marduk

alte Dame said:


> I don't think it would be the wisest move to record her without her knowledge when you have so little in the way of real suspicion of an affair.


I'm almost wondering if he wants out of the marriage and hope his wife is going to give him an easy exit.

Simply because he's focused on capturing the marriage failing, rather than putting it back on course.


----------



## GusPolinski

Let's not forget about those _gut feelings_, folks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> Let's not forget about those _gut feelings_, folks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would absolutely be worried. I'd check to see how defensive she is about sharing her phone and computer for sure. I'd be more aware of what she's up to during the day. 

But I'd also be planning some sweet ass date nights rather than buying a var as step one. 

Because the date nights can only help. If she's feeling bored or distant, then it will help. If she's got someone on the side, she'll be disinterested in date nights, and give excuses. 

And that will tell you a lot. Not for certain, but a lot. 

A var can only catch her if she's cheating. It can only prove bad news. And it's not a guarantee to catch her.

And if she's bored and disconnected and not cheating... And finds the var... Apocalypse time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated

I agree with others here. I don’t see any glaring Red flags at this time, but some of them are turning Pink. In my case, XWW was glued to her phone and laptop. She added pin codes for access. The reluctant duty sex and lack of kissing were things I also started noticing in my marriage at about year 13, when she started cheating. Right now you are basing everything on your gut feeling. There’s nothing wrong with that. You shouldn’t ignore that. That's you sub-conscious mind telling you there is a problem. My divorce started with a gut feeling.

I would begin by working on your marriage to start with…and yourself. As someone mentioned, Athol Kay's MMSL primer. It's a good guide to improving yourself to become a better man to build attraction with your wife. Start spending more quality time with her and start doing some fun things together. Discover new things, go to new places, and create new memories together...start dating her again. Re-build the stale bond between you and make her feel cherished again. Keep in mind, this process could take some time to change how she relates to you. 

If this doesn’t appear to be having any effect or your gut is still burning…go to step 2.

Start investigating in secret and keep it simple. Make your computer appear inoperable and ask to borrow hers…simple. Search through her emails if you can, but don’t forget the deleted files and drafts. That’s how I caught my XWW. Facebook messenger is also where I found deleted messages and images. 

I also watched her as she would tap in her access pin on her phone. It didn’t take long for me to get that and it lead to a finding a lot of stuff on her phone when she was sleeping. 

Place a VAR in the car and in your home, I wish I would have. I used a GPS tracker hidden in XWW’s car. This yielded results almost immediately. It’s hard for cheaters to come up with an excuse for spending afternoons at a hotels! 

Remember, this must be a secret. Don’t tip your hand and never reveal your sources.

With any luck, step 1 will be all that is required. Having to snoop and discover your wife is actually cheating is not fun…but sometimes, unfortunately necessary.


----------



## Chaparral

Actually, refusing to kiss him
Is the biggest redflag. It makes it sound like he disgusts her. I would see a dentist and be checked for gingivitis. Other wise there is no excuse for that except disrespect and disgust.

Does she ever convincingly say I love you?


----------



## Be smart

I advice you to do this my friend.

Speak to your sister and ask her to help you out with kids,mother and father this weekend because you need some time with your wife.
Suprise her with some nice card,chocolate or flowers,something that will remind her of days when you two were dating. Take her out to a nice play or whatever she likes. Let it be "her day". Talk with her about your Marriage and is she happy. Let her know you are there for her,her best friend.

If everything goes alright check her mail,facebook and other accounts first thing on Monday. If she is cheating she will speak with him/her about your time spent together. 

No more secret accounts or paswords,you share everything with each other and if you still have "that feeling" then buy some VARs. One for the house and another one for her car. 

I still belive there is nothing serious going on,just both of you need to work harder.

Stay strong my friend.


----------



## Chaparral

Does your wife work out at a gym? Does she go out with her girl friends?

What does she do during the day while the kids are at school and how do you know?


----------



## sideways

Since posting here and reading all of the advice I've had some time to really think about this, and where I'm at with my wife. First off I do NOT want out of this relationship.

She is my best friend, she's the mother of my two kids, and she's stood by me through SO many things. More importantly I do love her! It's been a tough time with my mom being sick, but as so many of you have pointed out we just need to make a conscious effort to work on our relationship and spend time with each other.

It's my responsibility to lead us in the right direction. Yes I have concerns about where things are with our physical relationship, but there isn't any tangible evidence that I have that would keep me from at least taking the steps to see if it's been mainly due to neglect first. 

The pass codes very well could be from keeping our daughter from snooping, and she definitely is wiped out as she has a lot on her table. Will ask her this weekend for the codes just to see how she responds, but as I mentioned I feel confident she'll give them to me with no hesitation. 

She watched my parents all day today, and sent me a text saying she loved me. Marduk I took your advice last night about giving her a passionate kiss, and putting my hands back on the tiller so to speak.

Going to hold off with the VAR right now, and start making our relationship more of a priority. If after doing this things aren't improving then I will definitely follow through on the VAR. 

I owe it to my kids as well. Again I appreciate all the words of wisdom, which has definitely opened my eyes. Is my relationship where I want it? No. However I need to give her the benefit of the doubt right now before I go recording her without her knowledge. Trust me I will certainly be observing her, and to see if things are improving while putting in the work. 

She had NO problem kissing me last night :grin2:

Will keep you posted on how things are going. Thanks again for wake up call. Hope everyone has a good weekend.


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## farsidejunky

Atta boy.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Marduk

High five, man. 

Now go rock her world this weekend.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

"She had NO problem kissing me last night"

This is good.....because honestly, the only real glaring red flag I saw in your posts was that she didn't want to KISS you anymore.

As others have posted....the slow down with sexual desire could be a normal thing with her age, menopause, etc.

But not wanting to kiss you at all?.....that was the most troubling thing you mentioned IMO.


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## Chaparral

MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER can be downloaded at either the link below or at amazon.com.


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## becareful

Yes, kiss her often like passionate lovers do, not as settled in spouses do.
Compliment her and make it genuine. Tell her how much she means to you.
Give her nice, long hugs. Just because. Feet and back rubs?
When you go for a walk, do you hold her hand?
If you have the strength, carry her in your arms to bed every once in a while.
Your relationship with your wife has to come first; otherwise, your family will suffer.


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## Graywolf2

sideways said:


> However my mother is really sick right now, and it's been tough to do this because the two people we would leave our kids with (my mom) as well as my sister (who's helping with my parents at night) aren't able to watch them. Plus there's been so much going on.
> 
> She watched my parents all day today, and sent me a text saying she loved me.


Even though something is obvious it helps to acknowledge it in words. Tell your wife that life sucks right now and thank her for her help and friendship.


----------



## sideways

Wanted to chime in here. Have yet to ask my wife for her pass codes this weekend as we've been pretty busy with bday parties and other kids activities. I am also wanting to give this a little more thought before I do ask her. If now is the right time?

On a previous thread (don't know which one it was), someone had listed a bunch of signs to look for possible cheating spouses. A few of them were:
*pass code on cell
*pass code on computer
*pass code on Facebook
*staying up late on the computer
*having their cell close to them at all times
*change in sexual behavior

Could someone provide this entire list? Wanted to look at this again.

I mentioned that I was throwing around the idea of using VAR on my wife. Still don't know if I want to do this at this point or not. One of the things that is keeping me from doing this, is I might not hear of any evidence that she's messing around on me or not however I may hear things that she's saying to her friends. Like trashing me to them. Then what would I do with that info?

The reason I bring this up, is there have been a few times where she has thrown me under the bus. Example. I am registered on Facebook, however I never get on it. My wife spends a lot of time on it. I am not a friend on my wife's pg.

Two weeks ago I went to her site, and even though I can't get on there as I'm not a friend, I could actually see her latest posting. She had posted a photo of our two kids from our trip last summer. One of her friends asked where it was from. My wife replied where it was taken, and the next post was from a friend who said they had already booked their reservation at this place for this summer. My wife answered, and I quote,"me and the kids would love to go back there as well, but we don't have a say on where we go for vacations".

First off, this isn't true, as every single vacation we've been on my wife and kids have selected where they wanted to go. The place we went to last summer was the first time I picked the destination. We all had a blast.

So when I read this post about her not having any "say so" in the decision (which is there for all of her friends and family to see) sorry, this didn't go over to well with me. I took a picture of the Facebook posting and those comments, and sent them to her (text) saying thanks for throwing me under the bus and for having my back. That this claim by you is also not true. She replied back saying that's not what she meant and nobody would take it that way (how I was seeing it).

So I went to about four people who I know, and read this post (verbatim) and then just shut up to hear what the first thing that they thought of after hearing this? Every single one of them said, "wow", "that would be tough to hear", or "that wouldn't make me happy seeing that". All of them thought it wasn't painting me in a good light, and certainly could see why I would be upset about it.

When I went back to tell her that a few people I reached out to about this thought the same thing after hearing it her reply was,"I'm sure it was from people who don't even know me"!! Well one of the people was my sister who knows her extremely well. She too thought the same thing. Even after hearing this my wife still stuck to her guns, and never even apologized. I did notice that she shut down her Facebook pg for about a week, however it looks like she's now back on but for some reason I can't even see her main page with the last post like I could previously see. I'm sure she's blocking me from having access to her main pg?

It makes me wonder if she's saying this right out in the open to everyone she practically knows what else is she saying in private phone conversations or texts?

Last night my son had an event that we all went to. Our neighbor two doors down, is one of the leaders of this activity. This guy is married with three boys. Let me also say I have been nothing but friendly to both he and his wife in the past. However over the last couple of yrs every single time I drive by their house this guy will not give me eye contact. In fact at the last minute he always looks the other way. It's got to the point where I just chuckle about it.

Last night at this event this guy comes up from behind and starts saying hello to a few of the people around me, and sure enough he said nothing to me. Later when he would be off in the distance I would notice him staring my way from time to time. Later, when I got home, I asked my wife if this guy was going to be running this activity next yr? She said yes. I said I was having reservations letting my kid be involved in an activity where this guy won't even acknowledge me in any way. 

Before I could continue my wife cuts me off, and starts coming to this guys defense saying that he's not this way. She was NOT getting that he is this way with me, and acting as if I was WAY off base thinking this way. Her comment, "we love X". Now I'm not saying that my wife and this guy are messing around (god forbid), but what I am saying is here's another example of my wife not giving a rats ass about how I was thinking/feeling about these two situations. That she's right and not even thinking about hey "sorry, I could see how you would be thinking that".

So even though I sit here with no tangible evidence of my wife messing around now (or in the future) there's a part of me that continues to want to get to the bottom of what in the world is going on. The first thing I am going to do is transfer my wife's cell on to my account so I can start seeing her phone/text records. I can do this easily without making her wonder why I would be doing this. I already mentioned a few months back that I may try to bundle everything together.

Let me also say that I know I mentioned previously that my mother has cancer right now and how tough this has been. That said I know this can certainly stress you out, and no doubt it has. I have had a lot of thoughts running through my head on all of this stuff going on with my wife. I'm just trying my best to sort through it all, and there's a part of me that just wants to know for sure if anything went down behind back in the past or if something is going on (are starting to) right now?

I walk a fine line here as I want to know what's real and what's not, but I also don't want to push my wife in a corner and come across as controlling and accusing her of things that she may or may not have done. As I stated previously I want the marriage to work, but I don't know if things are off due to neglect on my part or if there are other things at play here.

If for some reason I do have the ability here in the future to read her texts, emails, or hear phone conversations, there's a part of me that will be VERY pissed at her if she's trashing me to anyone behind my back. Not as pissed if she was running around on me, but trashing me could certainly be enough to want to move away from this relationship. Obviously depends on what she was saying. So if by chance I do step out and start tracking her and I come across some heavy trashing me to others I would most certainly go to her with this evidence.

Man I go back and forth on this as I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Appreciate any thoughts to help sort through all of this?

It's also been a stressful week as two of my friends lost their kids this past week (one by a suicide and the other by OD).


----------



## Be smart

My friend you dont have to feel guilty if you check her phone,facebook and other accounts. She is your wife and mother of your children. Same goes for her.

In your last post you kinda asked lot of questions and what if. You can solve that very easly,just buy some VARs.
Also you are scared of her cheating (I think she is not) or her trash talking you so once more buy some VARs. 

What I see wrong is your communication. This is how it starts all my friend. It seems to me like you have 3 or 4 topics to talk about and they are kids,your mother and father and money. Then both of you made things even harder when you talked about that Trip. This is not the way to lead your Marriage.

Sorry to ask,but how did you spend this weekend? Did you spend your time with your wife or did you spend it watching football,going to gym,reading newspaper ?

You are worried about lack of sex and intimicy and lets be honest here,both of you are to blame for that. You dont spend time with each other,you dont act and try to put your spouse in the first place. It is always about your kids,your mother (sorry,I know she is sick) and money. 

Then your neighbor comes to the picture. She kinda got mad at you last time you wanted to talk about him and I would do the same thing. Just look how you aproched this problem,sorry.

Sorry.


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## rzmpf

Why are you afraid to find that she is throwing you under the bus? You already know that she is doing it, you would just see the extend of it. If she is doing it on a wider scale, you know that she has even further distanced herself from you (something that is quite obvious considering the lack of intimacy and empathy) than you thought. If you are ready to let go if she disrespects you like that shouldn't you welcome the opportunity to proof such a dealbreaking behaviour?

Or you could find evidence that she has an inappropiate relationship with someone or you could hear her complaining about your marriage and what you should improve or you could hear none of that.

Unless you hear what she says (and with whom she is talking and texting) you don't know anything and you have to speculate and think about different possible scenarios instead. Like with this sports guy, he could just be someone who does not like you, he could be an a-hole, he could be an OM or your wife complains to him (or he heard about it through others) about how controlling or whatever else you are. Such mind games are only exhausting and damaging.

Right now you are not accusing her of anything, because you don't even know what to accuse her of. You only have some ambiguous hints. You need something better.

But you can still try to reconnect with your wife, some small gestures here and there, change the date night routine a bit etc and see her reactions to it. Nothing too spectacular so she does not think something is up just in case something is up.


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## G.J.

G.J. said:


> My only ADD to advice currently given is to *buy two **VARs *and put one in the house hidden as she will be talking on the phone more there than the confines of her car
> 
> Some of the *VARs* have quite long recording sessions


The more you post the more you need to use those guys

And please please please...oh did I say please...do not confront her if you find anything 
until it is concrete proof..solid...unmovable....stiff...ridged....incriminating her for more than trash talking you at the minute


----------



## tech-novelist

sideways said:


> Last night my son had an event that we all went to. Our neighbor two doors down, is one of the leaders of this activity. This guy is married with three boys. Let me also say I have been nothing but friendly to both he and his wife in the past. However over the last couple of yrs every single time I drive by their house this guy will not give me eye contact. In fact at the last minute he always looks the other way. It's got to the point where I just chuckle about it.
> 
> Last night at this event this guy comes up from behind and starts saying hello to a few of the people around me, and sure enough he said nothing to me. Later when he would be off in the distance I would notice him staring my way from time to time. Later, when I got home, I asked my wife if this guy was going to be running this activity next yr? She said yes. I said I was having reservations letting my kid be involved in an activity where this guy won't even acknowledge me in any way.
> 
> *Before I could continue my wife cuts me off, and starts coming to this guys defense saying that he's not this way.* She was NOT getting that he is this way with me, and acting as if I was WAY off base thinking this way. Her comment, "we love X". Now I'm not saying that my wife and this guy are messing around (god forbid), but what I am saying is here's another example of my wife not giving a rats ass about how I was thinking/feeling about these two situations. That she's right and not even thinking about hey "sorry, I could see how you would be thinking that".


*This *is VERY BAD. I think you have a lot to worry about with this guy in particular. Cheaters are often very vehement in their defense of their affair partners before they are found out!

You need those VARs in place right now!


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## Cynthia

You each have FB pages, but aren't friends on FB? That is weird. Friend her and see what happens.


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## Sports Fan

Look in all honesty you definately have some very disturbing red flags.

At the very least you need to discreetly do some investigating. I would start by installing a key logger on her computer and buying a VAR for the car.

Realistically speaking there is something going on. Whether it is emotional or physical time will tell.


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## turnera

One, friend her and see what she does.

Two, go to your neighbor, man to man, and ask him what's up. Like a man.


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## Gabriel

turnera said:


> One, friend her and see what she does.
> 
> Two, go to your neighbor, man to man, and ask him what's up. Like a man.


This, completely.

Get a FB page. Most people have one. It's not weird. Friend your wife, everyone does. Then you should be able to see everything she posts, unless she starts hiding select entires (which is possible).

Also, going over there in a friendly way is a great idea. He's your neighbor, and he clearly is uncomfortable with you. Make it about him, ask him if you have offended him in some way. Tell him you'd like to put him at ease if there is any problem. This will keep him from getting defensive. If anything, what it does is show that you don't suspect anything - that instead you want to be friends. If something funny is going on, that will throw a monkey wrench into how people are behaving.

My guess is that your wife *****es about you a bit on social media, to her regular social circle, etc. That in itself isn't a crime. But if it affects how people treat you and think of you, that's a problem. Best way to do that, is to join the party, so to speak. Get on Facebook, be friendly to the neighbor, go to these events he is running when you can.


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## VeryHurt

I think you need to take things down a notch and calm down.
Why did you confront her about the post on Facebook about the vacation comment? That probably annoyed her.
You are showing too many of your cards too soon.


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## adriana

turnera said:


> Two, go to your neighbor, man to man, and ask him what's up. Like a man.



Oh.... absolutely. I'm sure that the neighbour will be so touched by OP's _man to man_ approach that, with tears in his eyes, he will instantly confes to any real or imaginary indecent activites with OP's wife. Just.... _like a man. _


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## Chaparral

You need to go full detective now. You have suspicions, you have motive and you have circumstantial evidence.

Do not talk to your neighbor, he's a suspect by his actions. Do not friend your wife yet. Try guessing her pass codes, if that fails then ask then go check out her facebook. 

Get two or three vars. Car and house.

You have way too many red flags now and your gut is the big one. I think you will find she has a thing going on with someone that is married and can't or won't commit to her. When someone comes here with as much as you have the outlook is extremely bad.


----------



## G.J.

*DO NOT TALK YO YOUR NEIGHBOUR AND ASK HIM WHATS UP*

IF she is indeed involved do you think hes going to say 'gee guy yea sorry ive been seeing your wife'

He may be acting the way he is because of another reason ..perhaps your wife bad mouthing you or a.n.other BUT until you get more of a handle 
for goodness sake don't go making your life 10x harder by not thinking things through

If she's badmouthing and the guys wife has told him...he still wont say anything other than to his wife and guess who she will tell then

Get your VARs in place and lets see what's going on ....once you know what the problem is GUESS WHAT...

you can then take steps


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## Chaparral

Here is a list of common red flags, while many do not apply so do. 

Red flags*

Sex life dropped off noticeably
Passwords on phone and computer
Much more time on line...fakebook.
More GNOs...staying out later.
Less eye contact and holding hands...much less physical contact.
Less communication.
Staying up late on computer.
Dressing more provocative
More shopping-spending...clothes.
3 hour groceries shopping trips
Gasoline use and mileage went up
Generally disconnected from family.
New friends that I wasn't introduced to
Cell/text usage went up...way up.
New hair style and attention to makeup
Started exercising more.
Secretive about whereabouts during contact
She would become annoyed easily with me.
Household responsibilities dropped way off.
ecame more forgetful in general
A noticable distancing from her family.
Much more waxing...trimming...shaving....not for me.


----------



## WasDecimated

OK Sideways, your last post has me thinking the pink flags are turning red.

This Fakebook situation is not good. 

Who is not friends with their spouse on social media? She is keeping part of her life separate from yours…that is intentional. I was not on Fakebook until I started to suspect something was going on with my XWW. I joined because she was spending huge amounts of time on it and I wanted to see what was going on. I joined and sent her a friend request. She dragged her feet accepting it…about 5 days. When she finally did, I was able to read all of her past posts, that she did not delete, and it was instantly obvious that she was focusing on an old high school guy friend who later became posOM. Sometime later, he blocked me so I could no longer see their communications or posts. My divorce attorney told me that Fakebook has been a factor in at least 85% of his cases.

I would send your wife a friend request and see how long it takes her to respond. If it isn’t instant than she is probably contemplating the ramifications, deleting posts, comments, or adjusting her settings so you won’t be able to see everything. She may not want you involved in this part of her life, and that would be a big Red flag. If there is someone else, all he has to do is block you and you will never know he is there.

Now to the unflattering light she is casting on you.

My XWW only did this in emails and texts to posOM. This was her way of justifying why she was cheating with him. XWW didn’t want posOM to thing she is a wh0re so this was part of her rationalization process. The things she said about me to posOM were simply not true. At the very least, gross exaggerations. To the rest of the world, she was always positive in her reference to me, that I know of. 

I would be really pissed off if my wife was dissing me on social media, especially if it was not true. This may be a stretch but your wife could be trying to justify any future behavior by casting you in a bad light. This would turn taint you in the eyes of world opinion (her friends) and justify, in her mind, any future choices she may be thinking about making…or already is.

I would express your concern about her unflattering comments and let it go for now. After you became Fakebook friends with her, see if this was a one-time thing or she is in the habit of undermining your image as a person, husband, and father.

Defending your neighbor and his behavior.

After D day #1, my XWW would defend posOM whenever I would trash him. This doesn’t mean your neighbor is the OM. It could be just her lack of respect or tolerance for you and your opinions. Either way, this isn’t good. During her affair, my XWW would disagree with me more often and discount my opinions. It became more common for her to also take the other side of any subject just so she could start an argument with me. It was becoming obvious that she no longer respected me because she was emotionally attached to someone else.

As far as your neighbors behavior, I would let that one go for now but keep an eye on him...but do not confront. Affairs require opportunity. This includes co-workers, old school friends and fortunately, neighbors. Keep in mind that you are in a hyper suspicious mode right now. You will suspect any dude that is part of her social circle. He may just be a weird guy. I have a couple neighbors that are strange, everyone does. 

In light of this, I would start the VAR process now. One in the car and a couple more in the house. If it is a neighbor, the house becomes even more important. keep looking for the opportunity to get into her phone and computer without her knowing what you are up to.


----------



## Tobyboy

Do not friend request your W at this time. Do not confront the neighbor. Keep your mouth shut and do some digging, report back to us first before confronting!!


----------



## JohnA

If she is trashing you to others that is not the action of a best friend. Instead, it is the action of a person who no longer considers you a friend. 

Perhaps instead of you asking to be friends on Facebook ask your sister to. 

The no kissing is a major red flag. Has she ceased other (if she ever did) giving you random hugs, cuddling, etc? 

There use to be a way to get to the register on a computer to see what apps where installed or deleted. Perhaps someone here can guide you. 

At the very least this is a wake up call to you to examine your marriage to see how it evolved and what is ahead.


----------



## Chaparral

If you friend her now, to repeat, she will delete things you want to see before she friends you. See if you can figure out her password. Facebook will notify her you have opened on another computer.

Is your sister not a friend of hers on facebook? Is she friends with anyone you know that you can trust to let you look at her page?


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## Marduk

Why are you not friends with your wife on FB with the "married" tag?

Why didn't you confront that guy at the party? I would have pulled him aside and said something like "chum, if you have some kind of problem with me, I'd love to hear what it is. Because this passive-aggressive ignoring me crap is getting old and tired."

You sound pretty conflict averse, man.


----------



## GusPolinski

sideways said:


> Wanted to chime in here. Have yet to ask my wife for her pass codes this weekend as we've been pretty busy with bday parties and other kids activities. I am also wanting to give this a little more thought before I do ask her. If now is the right time?
> 
> On a previous thread (don't know which one it was), someone had listed a bunch of signs to look for possible cheating spouses. A few of them were:
> *pass code on cell
> *pass code on computer
> *pass code on Facebook
> *staying up late on the computer
> *having their cell close to them at all times
> *change in sexual behavior
> 
> Could someone provide this entire list? Wanted to look at this again.
> 
> I mentioned that I was throwing around the idea of using VAR on my wife. Still don't know if I want to do this at this point or not. One of the things that is keeping me from doing this, is I might not hear of any evidence that she's messing around on me or not however I may hear things that she's saying to her friends. Like trashing me to them. Then what would I do with that info?
> 
> The reason I bring this up, is there have been a few times where she has thrown me under the bus. Example. I am registered on Facebook, however I never get on it. My wife spends a lot of time on it. I am not a friend on my wife's pg.
> 
> Two weeks ago I went to her site, and even though I can't get on there as I'm not a friend, I could actually see her latest posting. She had posted a photo of our two kids from our trip last summer. One of her friends asked where it was from. My wife replied where it was taken, and the next post was from a friend who said they had already booked their reservation at this place for this summer. My wife answered, and I quote,"me and the kids would love to go back there as well, but we don't have a say on where we go for vacations".
> 
> First off, this isn't true, as every single vacation we've been on my wife and kids have selected where they wanted to go. The place we went to last summer was the first time I picked the destination. We all had a blast.
> 
> So when I read this post about her not having any "say so" in the decision (which is there for all of her friends and family to see) sorry, this didn't go over to well with me. I took a picture of the Facebook posting and those comments, and sent them to her (text) saying thanks for throwing me under the bus and for having my back. That this claim by you is also not true. She replied back saying that's not what she meant and nobody would take it that way (how I was seeing it).
> 
> So I went to about four people who I know, and read this post (verbatim) and then just shut up to hear what the first thing that they thought of after hearing this? Every single one of them said, "wow", "that would be tough to hear", or "that wouldn't make me happy seeing that". All of them thought it wasn't painting me in a good light, and certainly could see why I would be upset about it.
> 
> When I went back to tell her that a few people I reached out to about this thought the same thing after hearing it her reply was,"I'm sure it was from people who don't even know me"!! Well one of the people was my sister who knows her extremely well. She too thought the same thing. Even after hearing this my wife still stuck to her guns, and never even apologized. I did notice that she shut down her Facebook pg for about a week, however it looks like she's now back on but for some reason I can't even see her main page with the last post like I could previously see. I'm sure she's blocking me from having access to her main pg?
> 
> It makes me wonder if she's saying this right out in the open to everyone she practically knows what else is she saying in private phone conversations or texts?
> 
> Last night my son had an event that we all went to. Our neighbor two doors down, is one of the leaders of this activity. This guy is married with three boys. Let me also say I have been nothing but friendly to both he and his wife in the past. However over the last couple of yrs every single time I drive by their house this guy will not give me eye contact. In fact at the last minute he always looks the other way. It's got to the point where I just chuckle about it.
> 
> Last night at this event this guy comes up from behind and starts saying hello to a few of the people around me, and sure enough he said nothing to me. Later when he would be off in the distance I would notice him staring my way from time to time. Later, when I got home, I asked my wife if this guy was going to be running this activity next yr? She said yes. I said I was having reservations letting my kid be involved in an activity where this guy won't even acknowledge me in any way.
> 
> Before I could continue my wife cuts me off, and starts coming to this guys defense saying that he's not this way. She was NOT getting that he is this way with me, and acting as if I was WAY off base thinking this way. Her comment, "we love X". Now I'm not saying that my wife and this guy are messing around (god forbid), but what I am saying is here's another example of my wife not giving a rats ass about how I was thinking/feeling about these two situations. That she's right and not even thinking about hey "sorry, I could see how you would be thinking that".
> 
> So even though I sit here with no tangible evidence of my wife messing around now (or in the future) there's a part of me that continues to want to get to the bottom of what in the world is going on. The first thing I am going to do is transfer my wife's cell on to my account so I can start seeing her phone/text records. I can do this easily without making her wonder why I would be doing this. I already mentioned a few months back that I may try to bundle everything together.
> 
> Let me also say that I know I mentioned previously that my mother has cancer right now and how tough this has been. That said I know this can certainly stress you out, and no doubt it has. I have had a lot of thoughts running through my head on all of this stuff going on with my wife. I'm just trying my best to sort through it all, and there's a part of me that just wants to know for sure if anything went down behind back in the past or if something is going on (are starting to) right now?
> 
> I walk a fine line here as I want to know what's real and what's not, but I also don't want to push my wife in a corner and come across as controlling and accusing her of things that she may or may not have done. As I stated previously I want the marriage to work, but I don't know if things are off due to neglect on my part or if there are other things at play here.
> 
> If for some reason I do have the ability here in the future to read her texts, emails, or hear phone conversations, there's a part of me that will be VERY pissed at her if she's trashing me to anyone behind my back. Not as pissed if she was running around on me, but trashing me could certainly be enough to want to move away from this relationship. Obviously depends on what she was saying. So if by chance I do step out and start tracking her and I come across some heavy trashing me to others I would most certainly go to her with this evidence.
> 
> Man I go back and forth on this as I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts to help sort through all of this?
> 
> It's also been a stressful week as two of my friends lost their kids this past week (one by a suicide and the other by OD).


Well...

Time for a VAR.


----------



## Cynthia

I am also beginning to think that your gut is telling you the truth. Be very careful with your steps from here on out. You do not want to alert her, but you do need to find out what is going on.


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## weightlifter

VAR should tell you all you need and fast.

For heavens sake. your mouth SHUT and your eyes OPEN.


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## Be smart

Your wife did not join on facebook yesterday my friend,she was there for a long time and you never wanted to see her posts,pictures and what is even worse you never friend her. Now she is keeping her accounts from you and if I remember corectly you two have a separated phone bills. 

Buy those VARs before it is to late and lets be honest here,if someone wants to have an Affair with her it would be to easy,sorry. You two drifted apart reading your posts and you dont put each other in the first place anymore.There is always something more important then your Marriage.

When you ask for paswords dont buy her story "I will give them tomorrow" because she can delete all information you need. If you find something dont tell her,keep it for you. TAM members could help you a lot.

Stay strong.


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## drifter777

When a husband has a gut feeling his wife might be cheating it's nearly always true. You know her & you know when something is off. The red flags you see are not proof but they are a legitimate reason for you to go into total snoop mode. You are entitled to know if she has/is betraying you.

Many posters are telling you to hold off talking to her about your suspensions until you have proof of her transgressions is because we see how badly it turns out when the husband jumps the gun. If she is cheating and you confront her without iron-clad evidence she will deny everything and gas-light you into apologizing for even suspecting her. Then she'll sync up her bullsh*t story with the other man & take the affair further underground. You will end up paying for a PI and/or polygraph in order to get at the truth. So hold you cards close to the vest until you are satisfied you know the truth one way or the other.


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## jsmart

sideways said:


> Wanted to chime in here. *Have yet to ask my wife for her pass codes this weekend as we've been pretty busy with bday parties and other kids activities.* I am also wanting to give this a little more thought before I do ask her. If now is the right time?
> 
> On a previous thread (don't know which one it was), someone had listed a bunch of signs to look for possible cheating spouses. A few of them were:
> *pass code on cell
> *pass code on computer
> *pass code on Facebook
> *staying up late on the computer
> *having their cell close to them at all times
> *change in sexual behavior
> 
> Could someone provide this entire list? Wanted to look at this again.
> 
> I mentioned that *I was throwing around the idea of using VAR on my wife.* Still don't know if I want to do this at this point or not. One of the things that is keeping me from doing this, is I might not hear of any evidence that she's messing around on me or not however I may hear things that she's saying to her friends. Like trashing me to them. Then what would I do with that info?
> 
> The reason I bring this up, is there have been a few times where she has thrown me under the bus. Example. I am registered on Facebook, however I never get on it. My wife spends a lot of time on it. I am not a friend on my wife's pg.
> 
> Two weeks ago I went to her site, and even though I can't get on there as I'm not a friend, I could actually see her latest posting. She had posted a photo of our two kids from our trip last summer. One of her friends asked where it was from. My wife replied where it was taken, and the next post was from a friend who said they had already booked their reservation at this place for this summer. My wife answered, and I quote,"me and the kids would love to go back there as well, but we don't have a say on where we go for vacations".
> 
> First off, this isn't true, as every single vacation we've been on my wife and kids have selected where they wanted to go. The place we went to last summer was the first time I picked the destination. We all had a blast.
> 
> So when I read this post about her not having any "say so" in the decision (which is there for all of her friends and family to see) sorry, this didn't go over to well with me. I took a picture of the Facebook posting and those comments, and sent them to her (text) saying thanks for throwing me under the bus and for having my back. That this claim by you is also not true. She replied back saying that's not what she meant and nobody would take it that way (how I was seeing it).
> 
> So I went to about four people who I know, and read this post (verbatim) and then just shut up to hear what the first thing that they thought of after hearing this? Every single one of them said, "wow", "that would be tough to hear", or "that wouldn't make me happy seeing that". All of them thought it wasn't painting me in a good light, and certainly could see why I would be upset about it.
> 
> When I went back to tell her that a few people I reached out to about this thought the same thing after hearing it her reply was,"I'm sure it was from people who don't even know me"!! Well one of the people was my sister who knows her extremely well. She too thought the same thing. Even after hearing this my wife still stuck to her guns, and never even apologized. I did notice that she shut down her Facebook pg for about a week, however it looks like she's now back on but for some reason I can't even see her main page with the last post like I could previously see. I'm sure she's blocking me from having access to her main pg?
> 
> It makes me wonder if she's saying this right out in the open to everyone she practically knows what else is she saying in private phone conversations or texts?
> 
> Last night my son had an event that we all went to. Our neighbor two doors down, is one of the leaders of this activity. *This guy is married with three boys. Let me also say I have been nothing but friendly to both he and his wife in the past. However over the last couple of yrs every single time I drive by their house this guy will not give me eye contact. In fact at the last minute he always looks the other way.* It's got to the point where I just chuckle about it.
> 
> Last night at this event *this guy comes up from behind and starts saying hello to a few of the people around me, and sure enough he said nothing to me. Later when he would be off in the distance I would notice him staring my way from time to time.* Later, when I got home, I asked my wife if this guy was going to be running this activity next yr? She said yes. I said I was having reservations letting my kid be involved in an activity where this guy won't even acknowledge me in any way.
> 
> Before I could continue *my wife cuts me off, and starts coming to this guys defense saying that he's not this way. She was NOT getting that he is this way with me, and acting as if I was WAY off base thinking this way. Her comment, "we love X". *Now I'm not saying that my wife and this guy are messing around (god forbid), but what I am saying is here's another example of my wife not giving a rats ass about how I was thinking/feeling about these two situations. That she's right and not even thinking about hey "sorry, I could see how you would be thinking that".
> 
> So even though I sit here with no tangible evidence of my wife messing around now (or in the future) there's a part of me that continues to want to get to the bottom of what in the world is going on. The first thing I am going to do is transfer my wife's cell on to my account so I can start seeing her phone/text records. I can do this easily without making her wonder why I would be doing this. I already mentioned a few months back that I may try to bundle everything together.
> 
> Let me also say that I know I mentioned previously that my mother has cancer right now and how tough this has been. That said I know this can certainly stress you out, and no doubt it has. I have had a lot of thoughts running through my head on all of this stuff going on with my wife. I'm just trying my best to sort through it all, and there's a part of me that just wants to know for sure if anything went down behind back in the past or if something is going on (are starting to) right now?
> 
> I walk a fine line here as I want to know what's real and what's not, but I also don't want to push my wife in a corner and come across as controlling and accusing her of things that she may or may not have done. As I stated previously I want the marriage to work, but I don't know if things are off due to neglect on my part or if there are other things at play here.
> 
> If for some reason I do have the ability here in the future to read her texts, emails, or hear phone conversations, there's a part of me that will be VERY pissed at her if she's trashing me to anyone behind my back. Not as pissed if she was running around on me, but trashing me could certainly be enough to want to move away from this relationship. Obviously depends on what she was saying. So if by chance I do step out and start tracking her and I come across some heavy trashing me to others I would most certainly go to her with this evidence.
> 
> Man I go back and forth on this as I feel damned if I do and damned if I don't.
> 
> Appreciate any thoughts to help sort through all of this?
> 
> It's also been a stressful week as two of my friends lost their kids this past week (one by a suicide and the other by OD).


That is VERY bad. First this guy dissing you like that and being cold toward you lately tells me he has something against you. The fact that your wife so forcefully defended him has my spider senses tingling.

If he is banging your wife, he'll get possessive over her and see you as a threat, especially if she's bad mouthing you to him, which I'd place money she is. A woman defending another man against her husbands concern is such a huge red flag. 

We've been telling you to get the VARS in place but you keep delaying. Also, I'm sensing too much meekness from you. How you let this guy diss you that day and you didn't confront him when he's staring you down. You are probably giving off a pushover vibe that signals to men that there is nothing to fear from pursuing your wife.


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## sideways

A few things.

Yes my wife is on Facebook, however she is friends with my mom, sister, my brothers, my nieces, my BIL's, and mutual friends. So I feel pretty confident that if she was saying negative things about me that I would hear about it. I'm not on Facebook, because I don't want to be on it. Now is she conversing with people through Facebook emails? I'm sure she is, but I don't think she's messing around on me right now. In the past? Don't know and that's what is in the back of mind. 90% sure she hasn't, but I would like to know for sure

As for this neighbor I have NO intention on going up to him to say anything. I've never said or done anything to make him want to give me a cold shoulder, and thus if he has a problem with me that's his problem. I'm not going to beg someone to be friendly to me or to be my friend. I have NO problem addressing situations with people who are my friends if something is going on. I am NOT afraid of confronting someone.

I will transfer her cell to my home account. I will also more then likely install some VAR as well. I will NOT say anything to her about pass codes or anything else for that matter until I have some time to monitor. Nor will I accuse her of doing anything either without any evidence.

Again, what I'm going back and forth on is using the VAR, and concluding that she's not messing around now or in the past (which would obviously be great), however it would bother me a great deal if she was saying negative things about me to her friends. If it was just venting that I could handle, but if she's actually saying bad things about me then we would have a serious problem.

I'll also say that I agree with the assessment that a few of you have mentioned that we need to improve our communication. I know my wife gets hit on, and my dilemma is do I want her to tell me? With her never telling me it makes me wonder what she's keeping from me? Has someone that I know ever hit on her, and she didn't say anything because she knew I would be pissed and thus confront this person?

I want to know where things are, and to feel confident that she's being straight with me. My wife has never lied to me (at least that I know of). If I can get to this point then I will bring up that it isn't right that I don't have her pass codes to her cell, computer, and iPad.

I guess first things first before we have this discussion.

Thanks again for all the wonderful advice.


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## Herschel

Get on that computer and install a key logger. If you need to set the admin password, download a Linux password changer and boot into it. If you can't figure it out, find a teenager.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

The neighbor just dissed you openly in front of friends and your wife. 

And you did nothing. 

In primate behaviour that's called asserting his dominance.


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## alte Dame

Well, I've changed my mind. With this latest report, I would recommend using the VAR. Sorry.


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## G.J.

sideways said:


> I will also more then likely install some VAR as well.
> 
> Again, what I'm going back and forth on is using the VAR, and concluding that she's not messing around now or in the past (which would obviously be great),* however it would bother me a great deal if she was saying negative things about me to her friends. If it was just venting that I could handle, but if she's actually saying bad things about me then we would have a serious problem.*
> 
> I want to know where things are,
> 
> I guess first things first before we have this discussion.
> 
> Thanks again for all the wonderful advice.


The bolded text is what your afraid of but I'm afraid you need to know what your up against...

In some ways bad mouthing you could be the lesser of what is actually happening

So glad your going with the VARs


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## adriana

marduk said:


> The neighbor just dissed you openly in front of friends and your wife.
> 
> And you did nothing.
> 
> In primate behaviour that's called asserting his dominance.



So, was the OP supposed to grab his neighbor's neck only because the neighbor didn't say hello to him or ignored him?


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## GusPolinski

Herschel said:


> Get on that computer and install a key logger. If you need to set the admin password, download a Linux password changer and boot into it. If you can't figure it out, find a teenager.


:lol: :rofl:


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## OnTheRocks

Always keep your hand close to your vest, but stop at nothing to determine if you're being lied to, especially by your spouse, of all f'n people.


----------



## becareful

You need a crash course in pc surveillance. Get a quality keylogger that doesn't appear in the Taskbar Processes List. If your wife open up the Taskbar and sees an unusual program process running, she'll google it and realize it's a keylogger. Then learn how to change your antivirus and anti-malware settings to ignore any operations being done by that keylogger. If the keylogger can transmit the data to your email, then make sure the firewall allows the keylogger to access the internet. Most firewalls have a Learning Mode where a window will pop up asking you if you want to allow Temporary or Permanent Permission for the keylogger. Choose Permanent Permission and then set the firewall settings back to the way it was when you first turned the laptop on. There may be more than one popups for the keylogger, so make sure you test it fully before putting things back the way they were.


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## Marduk

adriana said:


> So, was the OP supposed to grab his neighbor's neck only because the neighbor didn't say hello to him or ignored him?


No, you confront like I said. 

"Hey, buddy, I'm right here. Did I piss on your front lawn or something?"

And if he doesn't tell you anything or walks away, you laugh about him with the people around you. 

Take back the power. Especially with the wife acting strange.


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## JohnA

I am confused at this point. If every member of YOUR family can see her FB page where is the whoop? 

The neighbor might be of a concern, but he could have made a pass at your wife and she shut him down. You could have said something that offended him, his wife, or kids. He could be going after one of your children. 

Right now it sounds like your marriage a rut, so address that first. I am not saying to hide your head in the sand but be smart about it. I don't know if it has been posted here but this list is as good as it gets. 


Red flags*

Sex life dropped off noticeably
Passwords on phone and computer
Much more time on line...fakebook.
More GNOs...staying out later.
Less eye contact and holding hands...much less physical contact.
Less communication.
Staying up late on computer.
Dressing more provocative
More shopping-spending...clothes.
3 hour groceries shopping trips
Gasoline use and mileage went up
Generally disconnected from family.
New friends that I wasn't introduced to
Cell/text usage went up...way up.
New hair style and attention to makeup
Started exercising more.
Secretive about whereabouts during contact
She would become annoyed easily with me.
Household responsibilities dropped way off.
ecame more forgetful in general
A noticable distancing from her family.
Much more waxing...trimming...shaving....not for me.

At most check the phone bills but put your focus on getting out of your rut,


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## Marduk

GusPolinski said:


> :lol: :rofl:


I know it's hilarious. 

I don't know any teenagers that know Linux.


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## convert

The neighbor could be avoiding you out of guilt, some OM's will be very [email protected] when around the betrayed husband and others avoid the betrayed husband like the plague. 
or as John said above maybe he made a pass at your wife and she shut him down hard or....

I think the neighbor could be a big red flag.


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## 86857

Yes @convert, the neighbour's behaviour is very strange. 

OP isn't imagining the neighbour treating him like that. 
But W is telling him he is which personally I would find insulting. 
To make it worse, W is leaping to neighbour's defence & completely dismissing H with a, "We all love him." Sucks.
Whether W & neighbour are up to anything or not, it's a pathetic way to treat her H. 
Whose back does she have? Certainly not her H's.


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## Chaparral

Are you sure he isn't staring at your wife?

Got the VARs yet?


----------



## BetrayedDad

marduk said:


> Why are you not friends with your wife on FB with the "married" tag?


Yeah..... THAT'S a problem.

Combined with the passcode protected phone.

Privacy starts and ends in the bathroom for a marriage.

If your spouse needs "space" then they shouldn't be married.

Investigate and if she ends up clean set some harsh ground rules.

I'd start with NO MORE SECRETS and TRANSPARENCY.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

JohnA said:


> I am confused at this point. If every member of YOUR family can see her FB page where is the whoop?


People forget or don't know how facebook works. You can block who sees what to the point, you have friends within friend groups. The settings go from "me only" all the way up to global. So, until he sees her settings, this is not anything to go by at all.

We won't get into the people who have secondary accounts as well. You have the family page and the "adult" page as some of my coworkers call it.



> Passwords on phone and computer
> Less eye contact and holding hands...much less physical contact.
> Less communication.
> Staying up late on computer.
> She would become annoyed easily with me.
> 
> 
> At most check the phone bills but put your focus on getting out of your rut,


See, the problem with these lists is they make people believe you need more than one. Any one thing on this list can mean a major problem whereas, many can be possibly tied to the "rut" you just mentioned. 

There are the red flags he has now mentioned. Plus, the defense of the OM who is acting starnge and not talking to her husband. Sure they could be in a rut, but I see enough to question what is going on.


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## JohnA

Agree with philly. OP did you ever try using random letters in the hppt box that shows the site your on? So for example on this page you see http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/328673-need-some-expert-tam-wisdom-7.html. Go to that window and typenin the letter "s" it will generatna list of sites visited. If she used a privacy function it may not but it is worth checking. I did that to a 14 year old nephew years ago. I aiways thought the phase "as white as a ghost" was just an expression. 

Oh clearing the cache, cookies, and history will not erase them.


----------



## sideways

At the event on Saturday the neighbor didn't diss me in front of my wife. She was about 30yds away talking to some other mom's when this happened. Makes no difference to me if he wants to be civil to me or not. When he was staring at me off in the distance later on my wife wasn't around me at that time.

Her not acknowledging me (and sticking up for him) when I told her about it later that night pissed me off. 

I tried to get some VAR today. We have some major flooding going on right now, and was only able to go by Best Buy. They didn't have any voice activated recorders. They just had a few digital recorders. I'm assuming it says "voice activated" on the box, correct? Looked all over the box they were each in, and neither of the two said "voice activated". Will try to get by Walmart when I'm able to.

I looked at my wife's cell bill this morning when she was out, and it doesn't have the calls/texts itemized. I did however call my carrier to find out how to get her phone bill transferred to my account. I just gave her the # to call to do this, and she didn't put up any resistance. 

By having her on my account I will be able to see her calls. My carrier is AT&T (I don't use them for my cell--just for my home phone). Will I be able to see the specific texts that she makes, or just how many if I ask them once she's on my account? If she deletes the texts would I be able to still see the #s texted? Will I be able to see what was specifically texted (deleted or not) if I ask them for this?


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## kenmoore14217

All of your vacillating tells me YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH. You're afraid of it. Regrettably, understandable.


----------



## GusPolinski

@sideways, it's worth noting that much of what's in @weightlifter's "Standard Evidence Post" thread was written w/ Sony VARs in mind.

The ICDPX333 is a good bet. You can get smaller, thinner, etc, but that may mean giving up some of the other features (micro SD slot, ability to swap batteries in and out vs charging the VAR itself, etc). Plus it's not terribly expensive.

If you want to pick up a VAR from Best Buy, do this...

1) Open new email account. Don't name the account in any way similar to any existing email accounts.

2) Browse over to bestbuy.com and open an account there. Link it to your new email account.

3) Purchase VARs -- along w/ lithium or rechargeable batteries -- via bestbuy.com. Select the "ship to store" or "hold it for me" (can't remember the option name, and that's assuming that it's in stock) option.

4) Pick up VARs at your convenience.

Oh, and don't forget to pick up some Velcro.

As for seeing texts, calls, etc, once your wife's phone is on your account, you'll be able to see the numbers that she's calling, the numbers that are calling her, length of calls, etc. You'll see similar info for texts but not the texts themselves.

And that's only for texts sent/received via SMS. Anything sent/received via iMessage, WhatsApp, SnapChat, Kik, Viber, Line, FB Messenger, etc won't show up at all.

Also, you realize that's she's going to have to sign off on having the phone moved over, right?

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## weightlifter

Many walmarts carry the ICDPX333. My local WM has them and it is far from the largest.


----------



## sideways

My wife's cell has been transferred over to my account as of this afternoon. So a little progress. She didn't resist.

Betrayed 
Moving forward there has to be transparency in this relationship, or we're not going to make it. 

JohnA
Will certainly try that on her computer once I have code to get on her computer.

I don't want to throw a bunch of things on her at once as to not raise suspicion. Will do the VAR over the next few days. 

Gustavo 
Thanks. Will find it at Walmart.

Weightlifter
I plan to go to Walmart, and will look for that brand.

I do want to know what's going on (or went on) --If anything did. Have a feeling that I won't find any proof, however it won't be by lack of trying to find it. If it happened awhile back I won't have a way to retrieve any old texts, or emails (cell or computer), because she deleted everything. As some others have found however mistakes are made, and who knows I may find something. She's pretty smart and would look to cover her tracks really well.

If I don't find anything from the past (or lately) will I be ok moving forward just trusting that nothing happened that's the question. The only other thing that I could think of would be a polygraph, but would asking for this be reasonable to ask with no proof to show her?


----------



## Gabriel

My impression given everything you've said is that your wife has been a little cheeky with people about you. Maybe said a little too much. And this has generally been easy for her because you don't use social media and aren't around these people much. Kind of an outsider that happens to be your wife's husband.

And your gut is telling you something is up, but because you've been behind the scenes you aren't aware of what's been said. My alarm bells aren't ringing yet on this regarding any sort of affair. Neighbors are weird. That's common. My alarm bells are ringing, however, telling me that you aren't as involved in your wife's life as you should be, and that's causing a gap to develop between you. This gap is giving your wife a more distant feeling and she feels more freedom to talk more candidly to others about when she is upset. 

Your decision to focus on improving your communication is a great step. I would advise to go a step further and make it a point to be in your wife's business a bit more. Get more involved. Take interest in what she's doing. And yes, set up a frigging Facebook account, if nothing more than to be a part of her life in that way. You don't have to post anything, but you'd be surprised at how much people (women especially) get validation from their spouse's reactions, likes, comments, etc to what they post on there. Make an effort on that, even if you never post a damn thing.

I think if you do these things you'll notice marked improvement in your communication and closeness, and you will feel better about your standing with your wife. 

I hope my gut is right on this one.


----------



## Chaparral

They are not called var or voice activated recorders in the stores. I have no doubt what you saw at bestbuy is what you were looking for. The best one is a Sony and costs in the neighborhood of sixty dollars.


----------



## Cynthia

This is the recorder everyone is talking about: Amazon.com: SONY ICD PX333 Digital Voice Recorder: Office Products


----------



## sideways

Gabriel
I think your assessment of the situation is right on. Thanks!

Chaparral/CynthiaDe
Thanks this helps. Will look for this at Walmart or another Best Buy.

Took my wife to lunch this afternoon. She apologized for defending the neighbor the other night (before she had heard me out on what was going on). I appreciate that she did this.


----------



## Gabriel

sideways said:


> Gabriel
> I think your assessment of the situation is right on. Thanks!
> 
> Chaparral/CynthiaDe
> Thanks this helps. Will look for this at Walmart or another Best Buy.
> 
> Took my wife to lunch this afternoon. She apologized for defending the neighbor the other night (before she had heard me out on what was going on). I appreciate that she did this.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## Gabriel

Further, please be careful about the VAR. This is a slippery slope. If you feel there is a legit chance your wife is cheating on you or seriously disparaging you, maybe a VAR can be used to put your mind at ease (or catch her, I suppose).

But be very, very careful. Once you go down this road, it can be addictive and drive you insane. 

I am not a fan of the VAR approach except for in extreme situations where it's quite obvious that someone is cheating but you have no proof.


----------



## Be smart

Work harder on your communication. Start Dating your wife again. 

Did you get paswords from here ? Its been 5-6 days and you still didnt check her facebook and other accounts


----------



## sideways

As I mentioned, I had her switch her cell account on to my account a few days ago, so I'll have the ability to see her call/text history.

I have not asked her for her pass codes yet (cell, laptop, iPad) even though I feel confident she'd give them to me. My thinking is if I ask her now she's going to be on to me. I'll have to make up a reason to use her car to put the VAR in (will tell her I'm taking it to my mechanic for him to look at--engine light has been coming on from time to time).
The flooding has subsided a little bit so hopefully I can get to Walmart today.

I have a feeling she has blocked me from Facebook after me seeing the vacation comment that she posted. As I said, I'm registered on Facebook, but I don't use it all. I'm not a "friend" on my wife's Facebook page, however up until a few weeks ago I could go to her page and see the last post she made as well as see who her friends were. This is how I was able to see her comment about not having a say so in family vacations. When I try do this now her name doesn't even come up in the search box (I have no way of seeing her page or even her name), but I have seen her sitting at her desk looking at Facebook. So obviously she has blocked me, correct? Will be going to check on my mom in a few minutes, and will look to see if my mom is still on her page. When I ask her for pass codes does Facebook have these?

As for asking for the codes, doesn't it make sense to hold off asking for these now until I possibly have some evidence to show her? Also, wouldn't it be wise to wait to get the VAR installed before asking her for the codes as she would possibly talk about this on her cell to whoever and if there was something going on, like people have mentioned it would go further underground?


----------



## G.J.

wouldn't hurt to check her car out fully in all places anything could be hidden while your at it

I wouldn't ask for any codes at the minute as you correctly said it will certainly 'go underground' If theres some thing going on

You may be able to get her code if you can position your self near her before she opens a device up and most people stupidly use the same password on all their devices

even a hidden pinhole camera positioned were she uses her laptop may reveal the password if positioned correctly


----------



## Tobyboy

If she's that smart, she'll have notifications "on" and be notify when someone logs into her Facebook account from an unregistered device. But that will require her username and password which you don't have. Best thing to do is either, ask a trusted person that is friends with your wife on FB and ask to see her page. Most likely, they will only be a able to see limited stuff that she post. 

Best bet is a keylogger on the laptop. You'll be able to see all activity from screen shots without having to log into her accounts. You'll also capture the passwords to the accounts she logs into. 

Relytec is a great keylogger for PC and very stealthy. Free for a week. Read up on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## G.J.

> I have not asked her for her pass codes yet (cell, laptop, iPad)


He needs to get into her laptop to put a key logger on hence pinhole camera or close proximity to her when she uses devices


----------



## 86857

DON'T PANIC OP.

My gut feeling on this is that what is going on may be due to the marriage getting somewhat stale. 

Her comment on FB, siding with the neighbour & sex being a chore all indicate she is feeling disgruntled with you. 

Sounds like the relationship needs new life breathed into it. You put your hand on the tiller & next day got an 'I love you' text. You took her to lunch & she apologised about the neighbour thing though you didn't ask her to. She didn't take any notice of you changing the phone a/c. All good signs that the problem is the relationship getting stale, not an A. 

That said, for your own peace of mind you need to monitor for a while. But you must NOT have her suspect. If she's innocent it will be very destructive to the relationship. So do not ask for passcodes etc. 

VAR is tricky too. Be very careful if you do it because you said she's very smart & could easily cover her tracks electronically if she was up to no good for example. Remember that she will pick up changes in your behaviour too. 

For FB, get your sis to friend her if she isn't already & have your sis let you know what she posts, that is the sis who thought her previous FB comment was 'off'. If you open a FB a/c & 'friend her' she will know exactly what it's for. 

A golden opportunity for (retro) snooping is you mentioned she gave her old iPhone to your son. I suggested looking for the backup for the old phone. Do you have access to the computer that old iPhone was being backed up on? The old backup folder will still be there. When you get a new device a new backup folder is created for the new device. Everything that was on her old phone will be on that old backup & it will be easily got at, discreetly. There's lots of software available that can read it.


----------



## sideways

Checked on my mom, and while I was there I checked on her iPad and sure enough my wife is still on Facebook (and still friends with my mom). She has obviously blocked me to where I can't see anything (including even looking up her name in the Facebook search box).

Little background. My wife's father left her mom when she was around two yrs old. My wife never met this man. He never contacted her in any way. He actually died about five yrs ago. My wife's mom remarried a man when my wife was around 5 yrs old.

This guy was an alcoholic, and pretty controlling. My wife didn't really get to do much growing up. My MIL is a very simple country woman. She does whatever this guy says, and if she doesn't he won't talk to her. I'm sure my MIL also fears that he would leave her, and that this has always been in the back of her mind.

My wife, seeing all of this, was hell bent on NOT being like her mother. Her mom won't order what she wants at a restaurant. She orders exactly what her husband orders. If she did order something different it damn well better not be more expensive then what he ordered. That's how pathetic their relationship is.

My wife has gone overboard not being her mother, which in a lot of ways I'm proud of her. However if I say anything to her, I'm controlling. Let's look at our relationship. 
*she doesn't have to work (SAHM)
*she goes where ever she wants to without me asking her
*she talks to whoever she wants to without me asking her
*she eats whatever she wants (when she wants)
*she drinks when she wants (or what she wants)
*I don't have her pass code on her cell nor have I asked for it
*I don't have her pass code for her computer (haven't asked)
*I don't have the code for her iPad (haven't asked)
*I'm not on her Facebook pg nor do I have that code or see her comments or emails
*I don't tell her what to wear
*She's not accountable to me to what she does during the day
*she doesn't kiss me any more
*she decides when we mess around (and for how long)
*every suggestion I have about the kids gets shot down
*she has access to our checking account however any $ she makes is hers (she has said, "that's my money") 

She does whatever she wants, and if I say anything I'm controlling. I know, bash me, as it's pretty damn obvious I haven't been more demanding of her (not controlling). Again she's gone WAY overboard to not be like her mom.

So as I've said, feel like she'd give me codes when I ask for them, but in her crazy freakin viewpoint this will be me being controlling. 

I know I've played a big part on where our relationship is due to me not having my hand on the tiller (as Marduk) mentioned. I will try to dig and see what I can find as the more I think about this the more pissed off I get.


----------



## turnera

So basically, you've become the doormat mother and your wife has become the domineering stepfather. No wonder she's not interested in you. She has no respect for you. Weeks now and you're still afraid to ask for the damn passwords.


----------



## Cynthia

sideways said:


> As for asking for the codes, doesn't it make sense to hold off asking for these now until I possibly have some evidence to show her? Also, wouldn't it be wise to wait to get the VAR installed before asking her for the codes as she would possibly talk about this on her cell to whoever and if there was something going on, like people have mentioned it would go further underground?


Do not ever show her your evidence. She knows the truth. You don't show her what you have. She doesn't need proof of what she's up to. You are the only one who needs the proof.

Yes, she could take is further underground.

Who handles the finances in your family?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

sideways said:


> As I mentioned, I had her switch her cell account on to my account a few days ago, so I'll have the ability to see her call/text history.
> 
> I have not asked her for her pass codes yet (cell, laptop, iPad) even though I feel confident she'd give them to me. My thinking is if I ask her now she's going to be on to me. I'll have to make up a reason to use her car to put the VAR in (will tell her I'm taking it to my mechanic for him to look at--engine light has been coming on from time to time).
> The flooding has subsided a little bit so hopefully I can get to Walmart today.
> 
> I have a feeling she has blocked me from Facebook after me seeing the vacation comment that she posted. As I said, I'm registered on Facebook, but I don't use it all. I'm not a "friend" on my wife's Facebook page, however up until a few weeks ago I could go to her page and see the last post she made as well as see who her friends were. This is how I was able to see her comment about not having a say so in family vacations. When I try do this now her name doesn't even come up in the search box (I have no way of seeing her page or even her name), but I have seen her sitting at her desk looking at Facebook. So obviously she has blocked me, correct? Will be going to check on my mom in a few minutes, and will look to see if my mom is still on her page. When I ask her for pass codes does Facebook have these?


She changed the settings, as I mentioned in an earlier post. There are multiple levels of view settings on Facebook. So, she can have posts even certain friends can only see. I have my profile set the way you just explained. You can't even search my name to find me.


----------



## 86857

OP, I'm so sorry you're with a 'princess' or 'high maintenance' W. 

You will have to change that, but NOT NOW. 

Before you even bother, I would behave exactly as normal to do some heavy duty snooping, because she is off guard right now. If you start asking for passcodes you will give away your advantage. Look what happened when you told her you saw her FB. So she wants the her FB friends & family to see her FB posts, but not you??? Outrageous. You have given her a small warning that you will look at her stuff with the FB thing, so don't let her know you will look at other things. Don't ask for the passcodes. 

Go into stealth mode, check the standard evidence post etc. Behave as normal. 

Did you find the backup for your son's phone? 

If she won't even let you see her FB, I can just imagine what she'd say if you asked for passcodes. So don't. Go check it all out for yourself. 

She sounds very entitled so I'd check her out thoroughly.


----------



## G.J.

Has her taste in clothing changed over the last 12 months or so and her under wear is it more adventurous

Does she spend more time applying makeup when going out with out you

Any new interests materialized


----------



## Chaparral

First off get a GPS aa d put on her car.

Download MMSLP at link below or Amazon. Read the reviews at Amazon.


----------



## Marduk

What about doing what she does?


----------



## Tobyboy

marduk said:


> What about doing what she does?


That's a great idea, except OP has no clue what his wife is actually doing!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

Tobyboy said:


> That's a great idea, except OP has no clue what his wife is actually doing!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He gave a pretty good list right here:



> My wife has gone overboard not being her mother, which in a lot of ways I'm proud of her. However if I say anything to her, I'm controlling. Let's look at our relationship.
> *she doesn't have to work (SAHM)
> *she goes where ever she wants to without me asking her
> *she talks to whoever she wants to without me asking her
> *she eats whatever she wants (when she wants)
> *she drinks when she wants (or what she wants)
> *I don't have her pass code on her cell nor have I asked for it
> *I don't have her pass code for her computer (haven't asked)
> *I don't have the code for her iPad (haven't asked)
> *I'm not on her Facebook pg nor do I have that code or see her comments or emails
> *I don't tell her what to wear
> *She's not accountable to me to what she does during the day
> *she doesn't kiss me any more
> *she decides when we mess around (and for how long)
> *every suggestion I have about the kids gets shot down
> *she has access to our checking account however any $ she makes is hers (she has said, "that's my money")


----------



## Be smart

So your wife is doing everything she wants,she gives zero F. about you and what you say about your kids and Marriage?

Are you Afraid of her my friend ?

Let her know you will not tolerate this behaviour anymore,she needs to change. She is living with you and you are not her Step-father.

At this moment you are only there to pay the bills and nothing more. 

I couldnt live like this,sorry.


----------



## sideways

Marduk, sounds good but
*She doesn't ask me where I go
*She doesn't tell me what to eat or drink
*she doesn't tell me what to wear
*she doesn't tell me who to talk to
* when I travel she doesn't ask me where I stay or where I'm going while there
*she doesn't tell me what I can spend money on
*I don't have a code on my computer
*I don't have a code on my cell
*I don't have a code on my iPad
*I'm not accountable to her where I've been during the day when I leave

We both basically do whatever we want.

Every time I try to talk to her about anything that's not sitting well with me she gets defensive. I'm now becoming "controlling".


----------



## Marduk

sideways said:


> Marduk, sounds good but
> *She doesn't ask me where I go
> *She doesn't tell me what to eat or drink
> *she doesn't tell me what to wear
> *she doesn't tell me who to talk to
> * when I travel she doesn't ask me where I stay or where I'm going while there
> *she doesn't tell me what I can spend money on
> *I don't have a code on my computer
> *I don't have a code on my cell
> *I don't have a code on my iPad
> *I'm not accountable to her where I've been during the day when I leave
> 
> We both basically do whatever we want.
> 
> Every time I try to talk to her about anything that's not sitting well with me she gets defensive. I'm now becoming "controlling".


So, when you walk out the door at night looking and smelling good, not telling her what you're doing, she doesn't ask and care?

What I'm saying is do what she does. See how she responds. 

If she doesn't care, she checked out long ago. 

If she does, you have something to discuss.


----------



## sideways

Be Smart, I am NOT afraid of her, trust me.

I'm tired of living this way as well.


----------



## sideways

@86857, yes I do have her last iPhone, however I have no way of getting on her laptop as a code is needed. Is there a way around this?

S


----------



## GusPolinski

sideways said:


> Marduk, sounds good but
> *She doesn't ask me where I go
> *She doesn't tell me what to eat or drink
> *she doesn't tell me what to wear
> *she doesn't tell me who to talk to
> * when I travel she doesn't ask me where I stay or where I'm going while there
> *she doesn't tell me what I can spend money on
> *I don't have a code on my computer
> *I don't have a code on my cell
> *I don't have a code on my iPad
> *I'm not accountable to her where I've been during the day when I leave
> 
> We both basically do whatever we want.
> 
> *Every time I try to talk to her about anything that's not sitting well with me she gets defensive. I'm now becoming "controlling".*


And there it is.

This is what you say to that...

"Wife, I have precisely ZERO desire to 'control' you.

I do, however, want to 'control' _myself_ -- specifically, I want to 'control' the level of emotional, financial, and physical investment that I choose to put into a relationship that is feeling both more lop-sided AND less transparent of late."

Then stand back and watch the gears start to turn in her head.

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

sideways said:


> **********, yes I do have her last iPhone, however I have no way of getting on her laptop as a code is needed. Is there a way around this?
> 
> S


Booting into a Linux-based "Live CD" environment would allow you to reset her password. That's probably a bad idea, though, as that would accomplish little more than raising suspicions.

You could instead reset (or, rather, erase) the local Administrator password, and then use that to log in, install a keylogger, and reconfigure any security software as needed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## becareful

It seems like communication between the op and his wife are sorely lacking. This is how couples drift apart.


----------



## turnera

sideways said:


> **********, yes I do have her last iPhone, however I have no way of getting on her laptop as a code is needed. Is there a way around this?
> 
> S


Yeah.

Take the laptop from her, go to a computer specialist, and have him open it.


----------



## 86857

sideways said:


> **********, yes I do have her last iPhone, however I have no way of getting on her laptop as a code is needed. Is there a way around this?
> 
> S


Yep @sideways , if you have physical access to her old iPhone, you can connect it up to your own computer & use Wonderhare Dr Fone for IOS which will extract the data from it. It offers an option to recover deleted messages too. Trial version will only recover some data, first 5 messages I think but you can try it first & then buy it if it doesn't give you enough. 
Here's a YouTube link that shows you how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qsQZERGwVY

I got all I needed from it! 
I'm sure other posters can help with this too. It's a few years since I used it.


----------



## Chaparral

Chaparral said:


> First off get a GPS aa d put on her car.
> 
> Download MMSLP at link below or Amazon. Read the reviews at Amazon.


Spark Nano GPS Tracker | Spark Nano 4.0 | Spark Nano GPS Tracking Device | Personal GPS Tracker


----------



## Chaparral

sideways said:


> Marduk, sounds good but
> *She doesn't ask me where I go
> *She doesn't tell me what to eat or drink
> *she doesn't tell me what to wear
> *she doesn't tell me who to talk to
> * when I travel she doesn't ask me where I stay or where I'm going while there
> *she doesn't tell me what I can spend money on
> *I don't have a code on my computer
> *I don't have a code on my cell
> *I don't have a code on my iPad
> *I'm not accountable to her where I've been during the day when I leave
> 
> We both basically do whatever we want.
> 
> Every time I try to talk to her about anything that's not sitting well with me she gets defensive. I'm now becoming "controlling".


Its time to put codes on your stuff. Don't be so transparent and easy to read. Ramp up some mystery.


----------



## tom67

Be smart said:


> So your wife is doing everything she wants,she gives zero F. about you and what you say about your kids and Marriage?
> 
> Are you Afraid of her my friend ?
> 
> Let her know you will not tolerate this behaviour anymore,she needs to change. She is living with you and you are not her Step-father.
> 
> At this moment you are only there to pay the bills and nothing more.
> 
> I couldnt live like this,sorry.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## sideways

GusPolinski said:


> And there it is.
> 
> This is what you say to that...
> 
> "Wife, I have precisely ZERO desire to 'control' you.
> 
> I do, however, want to 'control' _myself_ -- specifically, I want to 'control' the level of emotional, financial, and physical investment that I choose to put into a relationship that is feeling both more lop-sided AND less transparent of late."
> 
> Then stand back and watch the gears start to turn in her head.
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks Gus. Will certainly use this when I bring this up to her.


----------



## sideways

marduk said:


> So, when you walk out the door at night looking and smelling good, not telling her what you're doing, she doesn't ask and care?
> 
> What I'm saying is do what she does. See how she responds.
> 
> If she doesn't care, she checked out long ago.
> 
> If she does, you have something to discuss.


Marduk I don't really go out that much at night. If I was dressed up and heading out yes she would ask me where I'm going.


----------



## Herschel

What is even worth salvaging? Unless all her hidden activity is a ruse to throw you a bombastic blast party for being an awesome husband or whatever, why does it even matter if she is cheating. She has checked out. You are stressing yourself out. You are miserable having to play detective because wife isn't really being a wife.

Serve her with papers and tell her you are sick of being divorced in this marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sideways

becareful said:


> It seems like communication between the op and his wife are sorely lacking. This is how couples drift apart.


Becareful you are exactly correct. Our communication is pathetic. One of THE main problems is my wife becomes defensive no matter I want to talk to her about. The more I think about her posting on facebook she doesn't have a say in the vacation destinations, and when I brought it up to her, she sticks to her guns and says she did nothing wrong. On top of that, she deleted the post, and has now blocked me completely (even though I'm not on Facebook, nor a friend of hers, and all I could see before was her last post). To me this speaks volumes. 

Yesterday when I went to my mom's to check on her I mentioned that I checked to see on my mom's iPad if my wife had blocked me. Sure enough she had. When looking at my mom's Facebook I came across a message from my wife to my mom where she was blasting me for going out and buying a new bed. I rarely buy **** for myself as it's all about the kids, and for her to go to my mom and *****? If I did this with her parents (vent about my wife for something she did) my wife would be LIVID!!!!

Nothing seems to work. I am tired of living like this. What I'd like to do is just tell her that nothing seems to work, and that I'm moving out. I know this would get her attention, but the problem then becomes explaining this to my kids? I have an autistic 9 yr old daughter who would be devasted by this. 

Too soon to do something like this?
Thinking I need sit tight and try and gather some evidence, which would be tough if I'm not here.


----------



## sideways

turnera said:


> Yeah.
> 
> Take the laptop from her, go to a computer specialist, and have him open it.


Thinking of doing this!!

I was finally able to find the Sony VAR that was suggested yesterday at Walmart. So the wheels are in motion with this.


----------



## farsidejunky

sideways said:


> Marduk I don't really go out that much at night. If I was dressed up and heading out yes she would ask me where I'm going.


Then what are you waiting for?

When my wife and I were working on our marriage yet struggling, there was a party I was invited to for one of my former soldiers retirement. 

I invited her to go. She declined. I was disappointed. So I got dressed and got ready to leave. She looked at me as I was about to head out the door:

"Wow, what are you all dressed up over? Form fitting shirt? You are wearing cologne too? Who are really you going to impress?"

Insecure, clearly second guessing her choice.

I smiled and said:

"I don't dress nice and wear cologne to impress anyone. I do it for myself because I like to look and smell good. See you soon!"

Needless to say, I received several texts from her while at the party (insecurity and seeking me out at a time she was normally loathe to do so). I also was getting checked out by another married woman while there, who happened to catch me coming out of the bathroom with my fly down...and she made sure to point it out to me with a smile of her own. Not my best moment... 

Not that I was interested, but this moment did two things at a time when I was really questioning my own value:

1. That I was desirable even if my wife did not treat me as such.

2. My wife began to remember that others may actually think me desirable.

Think about it, OP.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## sideways

@86857 said:


> Yep @sideways , if you have physical access to her old iPhone, you can connect it up to your own computer & use Wonderhare Dr Fone for IOS which will extract the data from it. It offers an option to recover deleted messages too. Trial version will only recover some data, first 5 messages I think but you can try it first & then buy it if it doesn't give you enough.
> Here's a YouTube link that shows you how it works:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got all I needed from it!
> I'm sure other posters can help with this too. It's a few years since I used it.


@86857, so this software would work with her old iPhone on another computer (mine or if I take it somewhere)? A place I took the old phone to said that they wouldn't be able to retrieve old emails/texts. He was saying that this info would saved on the old chip, and once she upgraded to a new iPhone all the email/text info would be lost (that is unless she had it backed up on her computer)

If this will work I will certainly do this, however I'm thinking I would take it someplace and have them do it for me as I don't want my wife to come across this software on my computer.


----------



## sideways

Chaparral said:


> Spark Nano GPS Tracker | Spark Nano 4.0 | Spark Nano GPS Tracking Device | Personal GPS Tracker


Plan on getting a GPS as well. Thanks!


----------



## sideways

Herschel said:


> What is even worth salvaging? Unless all her hidden activity is a ruse to throw you a bombastic blast party for being an awesome husband or whatever, why does it even matter if she is cheating. She has checked out. You are stressing yourself out. You are miserable having to play detective because wife isn't really being a wife.
> 
> Serve her with papers and tell her you are sick of being divorced in this marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It may very well come to this, however I want to know that I've done everything I can to save this for my kids sake.


----------



## sideways

farsidejunky said:


> Then what are you waiting for?
> 
> When my wife and I were working on our marriage yet struggling, there was a party I was invited to for one of my former soldiers retirement.
> 
> I invited her to go. She declined. I was disappointed. So I got dressed and got ready to leave. She looked at me as I was about to head out the door:
> 
> "Wow, what are you all dressed up over? Form fitting shirt? You are wearing cologne too? Who are really you going to impress?"
> 
> Insecure, clearly second guessing her choice.
> 
> I smiled and said:
> 
> "I don't dress nice and wear cologne to impress anyone. I do it for myself because I like to look and smell good. See you soon!"
> 
> Needless to say, I received several texts from her while at the party (insecurity and seeking me out at a time she was normally loathe to do so). I also was getting checked out by another married woman while there, who happened to catch me coming out of the bathroom with my fly down...and she made sure to point it out to me with a smile of her own. Not my best moment...
> 
> Not that I was interested, but this moment did two things at a time when I was really questioning my own value:
> 
> 1. That I was desirable even if my wife did not treat me as such.
> 
> 2. My wife began to remember that others may actually think me desirable.
> 
> Think about it, OP.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I will definitely think about it. Thanks!


----------



## GusPolinski

sideways said:


> Plan on getting a GPS as well. Thanks!


 @ScrambledEggs provided a link for what looked like a pretty sweet GPS tracker a while back. Can't remember the make/model, but he'll be able to provide it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Cynthia

#1 - Do not move out. That puts you at a huge disadvantage in a divorce.

You said your communication is not good, but you can start communicating. It seems to me that your wife has shut you down and is living her life while attached to you as her income source. She appears to be using you. You have power here, but you are not using it. You are letting your wife walk all over you.

Once you have done your detective work and understand what is going on, hopefully you will find she is not cheating and you will be able to start establishing a new dynamic in your relationship where you will stop being a doormat and you two can form a healthy, balanced relationship. At this point, there is no reason to bail or to decide that all is lost. Take some time to find out what is going on and then work from there.


----------



## 86857

sideways said:


> **********, so this software would work with her old iPhone on another computer (mine or if I take it somewhere)? A place I took the old phone to said that they wouldn't be able to retrieve old emails/texts. He was saying that this info would saved on the old chip, and once she upgraded to a new iPhone all the email/text info would be lost (that is unless she had it backed up on her computer)
> 
> If this will work I will certainly do this, however I'm thinking I would take it someplace and have them do it for me as I don't want my wife to come across this software on my computer.


 @sideways what that guy told you doesn't seem right. 
Text messages etc are stored in the iPhones memory, not on the SIM card or chip. 
I'm pretty when she upgraded, they wouldn't have wiped the data on the old iPhone. At least they didn't when I changed mine but I don't live in America so it may be different there. Even if they did delete it see below. 
Also take it to an Apple store (if you didn't go to an Apple store this time) & ask them about it. If you're not close to one phone them and ask them about it. 

Also can you use a friend's computer? If so, download Wondershare Dr Fone on it & try it with the free trial to see what happens. I really am quite sure the data will be in the iPhone memory. Even if it has been deleted, when data is deleted on an iPhone, it's not actually deleted. The space the data occupies in the memory is flagged that it's available. So until it gets overwritten by saving other data on there, it will still be there. It may be fragmented but you will still see lots. 

If you can't use a friend's computer why not put a passcode on your own laptop so she can't get into it. When you've finished, delete Dr Fone & take off the passcode so you don't look too suspicious. 
Or take your own laptop to work or go someplace in your car & do the Dr Fone thing there. 

Hope that doesn't sound too confusing & hope it helps. 

Posters - can anyone else help OP with this?


----------



## Be smart

I am sorry for saying this but I wouldnt be suprised if your wife is Cheating or Cheated before. She lost all Respect for you my friend and this is why you get so little intimacy,no kisses and sex only when she wants it.

Your opinion about children and Marriage means so little to her. This is what makes me sad. I put myself in your position and this would kill me.

You really need to change and start leading your Marriage. Dont let her use you anymore because she is doing it for a long time. 

Take her phone,lap-top and search them. Dont let her drag it to another day because she will delete some information. You are Married to each other so there is no need for paswords. If she says she did it because of the children then ask her why she never shared them with you.

Blocking you on Facebook and not be friends with you tells me she is ashamed of you. 

Stay strong.


----------



## 86857

@sideways I just thought of something else. 
Do a global search on the old iPhone. If you swipe down on the home screen, at the top you will see a search box. 
Try typing in love, sex, kiss. . . I dunno, whatever one cheater might text to another.  Even things like see you soon, when can we meet, drink, bar etc Maybe even various guys' names she might mention. 
If you page down through the results, you never know what it might show up. I think it can even show deleted stuff. Worth a shot anyway.

PS Don't forget what I said. There may be nothing going on except that she has lost interest in the marriage. Anyway you need to find out either way. If you find anything, do NOT move out of the house.


----------



## becareful

sideways,

I tried to send you a private message. Let me know if you have received it.

How would you rate yourself as a communicator? On a scale from 1 to 10, with 10 being the best, most effective communicator.


----------



## ScrambledEggs

GusPolinski said:


> @ScrambledEggs provided a link for what looked like a pretty sweet GPS tracker a while back. Can't remember the make/model, but he'll be able to provide it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



GPS Log Book - Your hassle-free tax logbook

Pros: 

1. Small
2. Concealable as a car phone charger.
3. inexpensive hardware.
4. Very accurate. Shows even the parking space the car parked in.
5. Online tools integrated with Google maps included.


Cons:

1. Not real time. 
2. Must pull off card and sync with PC. 
3. Requires a annual service fee, though very small ~$20.
4. Depending on where you put it and your spouses technical awareness you may want to cover up some flashing lights.


----------



## becareful

sideways,

Read the first post in this thread. It may offer insight into your wife's state of mind.


Why Women Leave Men They Love: What Every Man Needs to Know


----------



## Archangel2

CynthiaDe said:


> ...You said your communication is not good, but you can start communicating. It seems to me that your wife has shut you down and is living her life while attached to you as her income source. She appears to be using you. You have power here, but you are not using it. You are letting your wife walk all over you.
> 
> Once you have done your detective work and understand what is going on, hopefully you will find she is not cheating and you will be able to start establishing a new dynamic in your relationship where you will stop being a doormat and you two can form a healthy, balanced relationship. At this point, there is no reason to bail or to decide that all is lost. Take some time to find out what is going on and then work from there.


May I suggest that you look into Retrouvaille? While it isn't a magic bullet that will heal all marriages, couples that participate in good faith have been able to improve communication. In a best case scenario, it will bring your wife back from the brink. In the worst case, either she will "mail it in" and not give 100+%, or she will refuse to go at all. As bad as that would feel, you would know pretty quickly where you stood in this marriage, and you would demonstrate to your family and hers that you gave it your best shot.


----------



## Marduk

sideways said:


> Marduk I don't really go out that much at night. If I was dressed up and heading out yes she would ask me where I'm going.


Exactly. 

So go do that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sideways

CynthiaDe said:


> #1 - Do not move out. That puts you at a huge disadvantage in a divorce.
> 
> You said your communication is not good, but you can start communicating. It seems to me that your wife has shut you down and is living her life while attached to you as her income source. She appears to be using you. You have power here, but you are not using it. You are letting your wife walk all over you.
> 
> Once you have done your detective work and understand what is going on, hopefully you will find she is not cheating and you will be able to start establishing a new dynamic in your relationship where you will stop being a doormat and you two can form a healthy, balanced relationship. At this point, there is no reason to bail or to decide that all is lost. Take some time to find out what is going on and then work from there.


Thanks CynthiaDe. Will see what I can find out by the VAR and now being able to see her call/text history since her cell in now on my account. Statements will come out here first of May for April.


----------



## sideways

@86857 said:


> @sideways what that guy told you doesn't seem right.
> Text messages etc are stored in the iPhones memory, not on the SIM card or chip.
> I'm pretty when she upgraded, they wouldn't have wiped the data on the old iPhone. At least they didn't when I changed mine but I don't live in America so it may be different there. Even if they did delete it see below.
> Also take it to an Apple store (if you didn't go to an Apple store this time) & ask them about it. If you're not close to one phone them and ask them about it.
> 
> Also can you use a friend's computer? If so, download Wondershare Dr Fone on it & try it with the free trial to see what happens. I really am quite sure the data will be in the iPhone memory. Even if it has been deleted, when data is deleted on an iPhone, it's not actually deleted. The space the data occupies in the memory is flagged that it's available. So until it gets overwritten by saving other data on there, it will still be there. It may be fragmented but you will still see lots.
> 
> If you can't use a friend's computer why not put a passcode on your own laptop so she can't get into it. When you've finished, delete Dr Fone & take off the passcode so you don't look too suspicious.
> Or take your own laptop to work or go someplace in your car & do the Dr Fone thing there.
> 
> Hope that doesn't sound too confusing & hope it helps.
> 
> Posters - can anyone else help OP with this?


@86857, I spoke to apple about her old phone, and they said if the info (specifically texts/emails) weren't deleted they would be showing up on her old phone. Since they're not showing up she has deleted these. They did say her carrier may be able to retrieve them. Will look into this once the new statement comes out next week (now that her cell is under my account).


----------



## sideways

@86857 said:


> @sideways I just thought of something else.
> Do a global search on the old iPhone. If you swipe down on the home screen, at the top you will see a search box.
> Try typing in love, sex, kiss. . . I dunno, whatever one cheater might text to another.  Even things like see you soon, when can we meet, drink, bar etc Maybe even various guys' names she might mention.
> If you page down through the results, you never know what it might show up. I think it can even show deleted stuff. Worth a shot anyway.
> 
> PS Don't forget what I said. There may be nothing going on except that she has lost interest in the marriage. Anyway you need to find out either way. If you find anything, do NOT move out of the house.


@86857 tried looking in the search box, and nothing bad was showing up. Will not move out of the house. Thanks!


----------



## sideways

becareful said:


> sideways,
> 
> I tried to send you a private message. Let me know if you have received it.
> 
> How would you rate yourself as a communicator? On a scale from 1 to 10, with 10 being the best, most effective communicator.


Becareful I did receive your message. Thank you SO much for sharing this. Will definitely do that here in the coming days. Before I do it I want to see the phone bill next week, and anything that may come up on the VAR.


----------



## sideways

becareful said:


> sideways,
> 
> Read the first post in this thread. It may offer insight into your wife's state of mind.
> 
> 
> Why Women Leave Men They Love: What Every Man Needs to Know


Thanks this was helpful!!!


----------



## sideways

Archangel2 said:


> May I suggest that you look into Retrouvaille? While it isn't a magic bullet that will heal all marriages, couples that participate in good faith have been able to improve communication. In a best case scenario, it will bring your wife back from the brink. In the worst case, either she will "mail it in" and not give 100+%, or she will refuse to go at all. As bad as that would feel, you would know pretty quickly where you stood in this marriage, and you would demonstrate to your family and hers that you gave it your best shot.


Thanks Archangel2.


----------



## sideways

marduk said:


> Exactly.
> 
> So go do that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Will do. Thanks Marduk!!


----------



## Marduk

sideways said:


> Will do. Thanks Marduk!!


I have found, in certain cases, especially when one spouse lacks empathy, that there's no substitute for leaving the house looking good to hang out with a coed crowd. Just like the other spouse has clearly been doing. 

Because there's no empathy, the abstract "would you be ok with me doing that" doesn't get any traction. 

But when it actually happens, and the shoe is on the other foot, everything sometimes changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sideways

So I was looking at her old iPhone, and it looks like you can get on her iTunes. Would I be able to take this somewhere and have them see if any of her stuff was backed up here (texts/emails) even without her pass code?


----------



## sideways

marduk said:


> I have found, in certain cases, especially when one spouse lacks empathy, that there's no substitute for leaving the house looking good to hang out with a coed crowd. Just like the other spouse has clearly been doing.
> 
> Because there's no empathy, the abstract "would you be ok with me doing that" doesn't get any traction.
> 
> But when it actually happens, and the shoe is on the other foot, everything sometimes changes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I've been dressed up to go out in the past she has always asked me where I was going. Appreciate your insight on this!


----------



## Archangel2

Sideways - Hope everything is going well.


----------



## 86857

sideways said:


> So I was looking at her old iPhone, and it looks like you can get on her iTunes. Would I be able to take this somewhere and have them see if any of her stuff was backed up here (texts/emails) even without her pass code?


I don't think so @sideways. iTunes is just that, i.e. her music, videos, books. It is the program that is used to make the backup file which is where all the data is stored and which is created & stored on her computer when she backups and or syncs her phone. Each time she syncs the old backup file is overwritten. If there is more than one phone or device being synced, such as her old iPhone, iPads etc, there will be a backup file for each device in the backup folder. So just copy the whole folder. 

Maybe you could pretend your computer isn't working & ask to use hers especially if you ask just before you know she is going out somewhere, shopping etc. You could bring up a terminal window (UNIX) on your own computer which would make it look like it's not working (grey screen with a cursor). In an Apple computer it's the program 'terminal' in the apps folder. Don't know on PC but it will be available - you can google. 

But you must be in her user account i.e. not guest user so interesting if she won't let you do that & sets up a guest user for you. 
Backup folder if it's an Apple will be in /Users/MrsSideways/Library/Application Support/MobileSync
To get there use 'Go' option at the top of the finder window which will bring you to ~Library & navigate from there as library folder is sometimes hidden. 
Then copy the backup folder to a flash drive, so make sure you get a flash drive first. 

Anyway, you haven't posted recently. Are you OK?


----------



## sideways

Checking in. Been swamped as my mom had to go back in to the hospital with some complications with her cancer. She was released yesterday.

Nothing has come up on the VAR the first time I had it in her car. 

Need to get with phone company to send me an itemized list of her calls/texts for April. They just send the bill and that's it.

I did speak with AT&T, and they said there's no way of getting what was said in past texts that have been deleted. I know my wife, and she would/will delete any texts/emails that would be incriminating.

Will be interesting to see her call/text history for last month once I receive this from the phone company.


----------



## The Middleman

sideways said:


> Checking in. Been swamped as my mom had to go back in to the hospital with some complications with her cancer. She was released yesterday.
> 
> Nothing has come up on the VAR the first time I had it in her car.
> 
> Need to get with phone company to send me an itemized list of her calls/texts for April. They just send the bill and that's it.
> 
> I did speak with AT&T, and they said there's no way of getting what was said in past texts that have been deleted. I know my wife, and she would/will delete any texts/emails that would be incriminating.
> 
> Will be interesting to see her call/text history for last month once I receive this from the phone company.


I have AT&T and I can go online and download every text and call record within an hour of making it. Didn't they tell you that you can get it online?


----------



## Maricha75

The Middleman said:


> I have AT&T and I can go online and download every text and call record within an hour of making it. Didn't they tell you that you can get it online?


Text content? When did they start that? I tried 4 years ago, with BOTH my phone and my husband's, and there was no way to get the content. We could see the numbers texted/called, but not the messages, themselves, on the website.

ETA: And we have been AT&T customers for years, even before 2012.


----------



## GusPolinski

Maricha75 said:


> Text content? When did they start that? I tried 4 years ago, with BOTH my phone and my husband's, and there was no way to get the content. We could see the numbers texted/called, but not the messages, themselves, on the website.
> 
> ETA: And we have been AT&T customers for years, even before 2012.


Content? No. The only exception to that would be any texts sent via or synced w/ some sort of online portal made available by the provider. Verizon used to provide something like this years ago, not sure if they still do. Or, for that matter, if AT&T ever did.

Anyway, the best that you can hope for in most cases is a list of any and all numbers from whom/to whom calls and texts have been received/sent, along w/ date and time stamps. And where phone calls are concerned, that's assuming that none of the call-but-bypass-straight-to-voice-mail or any other tricks haven't been used.


----------



## The Middleman

Maricha75 said:


> Text content? When did they start that? I tried 4 years ago, with BOTH my phone and my husband's, and there was no way to get the content. We could see the numbers texted/called, but not the messages, themselves, on the website.
> 
> ETA: And we have been AT&T customers for years, even before 2012.


No, not content. I don't think you can get that from any service. Date, time and cell phone number of every SMS text and call, not the content. Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## JohnA

It's been about a month since you first posted here. I have not really seen any thought on what you might want to do if your marriage is over, you just don't know it yet. Do you have an exit plan for you ad your children?


----------



## MachoMcCoy

It's been about a month since you first posted here. And I just read your first post about 20 minutes ago. The benefit to reading a thread from beginning to "end" is that you can see the progression. This one started out shaky as you all tried to decide whether or not she was cheating. It was funny. The "she's always cheating" brigade actually started to lean towards it being a problem in their marriage that needs to be fixed. Then something happened and the wave shifted and the OP is now in full James Bond mode. One month later and gearing up for the long haul. I anticipate we hit the 3,000 post mark later this year.

What's funny is that while you were all still thinking logically, I was actually thinking it actually COULD be cheating. With all those red flags. But she had no problem AT ALL with the carrier change. No problem AT ALL with seeing her phone or laptop. 

But that damn Facebook comment about the vacation...

OK. On to my point. What are the potential scenarios?

1 - She's checked out of the marriage but not cheating. Not good. 
2 - She's checked out of the marriage and IS cheating. Even worse.

But look what is still remaining whether or not she is cheating. She's checked out of the marriage. She won't kiss you. She loves you but is not in love with you any more. 

But hey. You DO need to know, so by all means good luck with your spying. I just find it odd that you are going to put such a huge percentage of your time into looking for infidelity when your wife not loving you any more is your real problem. What makes it BIZARRE is that there is nearly ZERO evidence of infidelity, yet we all agree she doesn't love you. So what's the advice? SPY!!

Welcome to TAM.


----------



## niceguy28

I'm not sure if somebody asked this already but have you taken the time to tell her how you feel and ask her straight up what the problem is. Tell her that she seems distant and uninterested and ask her what the two of you can do about it because it's clear both of you have needs that are not being met. Put the effort into figuring out what's going on with your wife first instead of playing detective. Does she have some deep seated resentment towards you? You said she looks after you parents which is a BIG deal. A lot of women will not do that and the fact that you have a woman that will is a huge blessing. She is clearly committed to you in that sense but obviously there is something missing. TBH from what you've described here life looks pretty boring. Has she always wanted to be a stay at home mom or is that something you pushed on her? If you have the money and the time and I know it's hard because of your parents I'd recommend surprising her with a vacation of some sorts, just the two of you. It might help reignite the spark.


----------



## becareful

sideways,

You should do what I suggested and get right on it.

Also, read this thread. All of it. And take notes.


Teasing your wife or girlfriend

Time to rekindle that fire, and do it quickly; time is not on your side.


----------



## sideways

I contacted AT&T today, and they will be sending me an itemized list of all her calls/texts for April. Should be receiving by the 17th. Will be interesting to see what it looks like.

Before I speak to her about any of this I want to get an idea what I may be dealing with. 

As I stated she is a SAHM, however she isn't lacking for things to do. She volunteers at our kids school, she does do some part time work for an adoption company, she helps with my parents, and she's pretty busy shuffling the kids to and from activities.

Our daughter is autistic, which brings all sorts of things to deal with. Also, for those of you who don't know, the divorce rate for parents with autistic kids is extremely high (like over 90%). It's usually the guy who can't handle it, and ultimately leaves. My wife has basically put ALL her energy into our kids. 

I have no idea where this is going, but I'm tired of the path we've been going down.


----------



## farsidejunky

@Anon1111

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Anon1111

hey sideways-- 

my take is that you're over-reacting.

you sound like you have a stressful life. mother with cancer, special needs daughter, sole provider. and on top of it, your wife is really hot, maybe to the degree that you feel insecure about it.

you know other dudes would be all over her if they had the chance. 

plus, she basically has a separate life from you. you're at work, she's at home. but she's also on facebook and you're not. and she has a lot of outside social activities and you sound like you basically go to work, hit the gym then come home.

I'm going to guess that you're somewhat socially isolated, so maybe you are hyper focused on your wife. 

My suggestion would be to think about this a bit while you're debating how to monitor your wife.

she shouldn't have secrets from you, but I'm not actually convinced she does. it might just seem that way if you feel very isolated.


----------



## sideways

Anon you may be correct. There might not be anything going on, but from my perspective it's worth digging around a little bit. Only time will tell, but whether something did (or didn't happen) I have a feeling I'll never truly know.

I just KNOW I can't continue going down this path.

This isn't about sex, but it bothers the HELL out of me that being together is basically a chore to her. We've been with each other for 17 yrs, and our sex life for the first 10 yrs was great. I know there's people on here complaining about how often they get together with their spouse (once a week, once a month, or not at all, etc). We're with each other twice a week so I'm suppose to shut my mouth and consider myself lucky? Sorry I'm not down with this.

Every time I've brought this up to my wife over the years she says that she's changed, and she's not like that anymore. I say bull ****!!!

As I've stated she doesn't want to kiss me, and on top of that there's now a bunch of rules in the bedroom. Can't do this.....don't touch there....hurry up so she can go to bed.

Well guess what...I've changed and this is now unacceptable to me. I'm tired of having these "talks" and NOTHING changes!!! I also mentioned previously about her mother being controlled by her stepdad, and her going to extremes to not follow in her footsteps. Well guess what, last week this subject came up and I called her out on it.

I said, you wake up in the morning, do I tell you what to eat for breakfast? Do I tell her if she can work out that day or not, do I tell her what she wears that day? She has the hole day while the kids are in school to do whatever she wants. If she wants to go volunteer at their school she can do so, she eats what she wants for lunch, if she wants to get together with her friends she can do so. I don's ask her where she's been or who she's been with. I don't have a say (nor should I) what shows she watches, or who she talks to on Facebook. Any advice I have regarding the kids goes in one ear and out the other. The money she makes is "her's", but the money I make is ours (which it should be). On top of that she has pass codes on her cell, laptop, iPad, and more then likely FB. She doesn't have to work either nor have I pushed her to get A job. She has a bunch of stuff to do, and trust me she's not bored.

You can blast me all you want, and why it's got to this point but you sure in the HELL can't call me CONTROLLING!!!!! 

Now if I do go and ask her for her pass codes, and more importantly, why the need for them, I'm sure she would give them to me, but in her mind it will be me being controlling!!!

My life is flying by me, and SO many people I know have passed away over the past couple of years. With my mother's cancer and my dad just turning 91 and his medical issues.....yes life has been stressful. This **** is just adding to it, and I'm sorry but sitting down and sharing my soul to her just doesn't work. It may for a few days or week, but things just go back to the way they were.

I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. All the stuff I do for my family, and she can never say she's sorry if she's in the wrong. The comment on her FB page about not having a say so in family vacations. She still thinks she did nothing wrong, and her reply is "anyone who knows her knows that's not what she meant". When I tell her I went to people who know her extremely well, and read verbatim what she wrote they too thought it was out of line. That said she's still going to stick to her guns, and she did NOTHING wrong. She goes and *****es to my mom about me going and buying a new bed (the old one was 25 yrs old). If I did that (went and *****ed to her mom/dad about anything) she would be LIVID!!! Her parents would also quit talking to me. That's how pathetic they are. I'm TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD.

A few of you have hit it right on the nose in previous comments. We're not husband and wife...we're roommates who happen to have two kids. To be honest with you (in my opinion) that's how she wants it.


----------



## sparrow55

So she is actually the one controlling you using the word "control" to manipulate you ?



> The money she makes is "her's", but the money I make is ours


This is never good.

Infidelity may or may not be an issue in your marriage, but this relationship dynamic is definitely bad. The post you made, there are several signs and symptoms that this is not a good equal marriage. You seem to have an entitled, spoilt and a manipulative woman. And you somehow woke up to it too late.

Infidelity issue might be some kind of red herring . If you can rule it out, that would be great.


----------



## sparrow55

And doe s your mother usually tell you about these things ?


----------



## Anon1111

sideways said:


> Anon you may be correct. There might not be anything going on, but from my perspective it's worth digging around a little bit. Only time will tell, but whether something did (or didn't happen) I have a feeling I'll never truly know.
> 
> I just KNOW I can't continue going down this path.
> 
> This isn't about sex, but it bothers the HELL out of me that being together is basically a chore to her. We've been with each other for 17 yrs, and our sex life for the first 10 yrs was great. I know there's people on here complaining about how often they get together with their spouse (once a week, once a month, or not at all, etc). We're with each other twice a week so I'm suppose to shut my mouth and consider myself lucky? Sorry I'm not down with this.
> 
> Every time I've brought this up to my wife over the years she says that she's changed, and she's not like that anymore. I say bull ****!!!
> 
> As I've stated she doesn't want to kiss me, and on top of that there's now a bunch of rules in the bedroom. Can't do this.....don't touch there....hurry up so she can go to bed.
> 
> Well guess what...I've changed and this is now unacceptable to me. I'm tired of having these "talks" and NOTHING changes!!! I also mentioned previously about her mother being controlled by her stepdad, and her going to extremes to not follow in her footsteps. Well guess what, last week this subject came up and I called her out on it.
> 
> I said, you wake up in the morning, do I tell you what to eat for breakfast? Do I tell her if she can work out that day or not, do I tell her what she wears that day? She has the hole day while the kids are in school to do whatever she wants. If she wants to go volunteer at their school she can do so, she eats what she wants for lunch, if she wants to get together with her friends she can do so. I don's ask her where she's been or who she's been with. I don't have a say (nor should I) what shows she watches, or who she talks to on Facebook. Any advice I have regarding the kids goes in one ear and out the other. The money she makes is "her's", but the money I make is ours (which it should be). On top of that she has pass codes on her cell, laptop, iPad, and more then likely FB. She doesn't have to work either nor have I pushed her to get A job. She has a bunch of stuff to do, and trust me she's not bored.
> 
> You can blast me all you want, and why it's got to this point but you sure in the HELL can't call me CONTROLLING!!!!!
> 
> Now if I do go and ask her for her pass codes, and more importantly, why the need for them, I'm sure she would give them to me, but in her mind it will be me being controlling!!!
> 
> My life is flying by me, and SO many people I know have passed away over the past couple of years. With my mother's cancer and my dad just turning 91 and his medical issues.....yes life has been stressful. This **** is just adding to it, and I'm sorry but sitting down and sharing my soul to her just doesn't work. It may for a few days or week, but things just go back to the way they were.
> 
> I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. All the stuff I do for my family, and she can never say she's sorry if she's in the wrong. The comment on her FB page about not having a say so in family vacations. She still thinks she did nothing wrong, and her reply is "anyone who knows her knows that's not what she meant". When I tell her I went to people who know her extremely well, and read verbatim what she wrote they too thought it was out of line. That said she's still going to stick to her guns, and she did NOTHING wrong. She goes and *****es to my mom about me going and buying a new bed (the old one was 25 yrs old). If I did that (went and *****ed to her mom/dad about anything) she would be LIVID!!! Her parents would also quit talking to me. That's how pathetic they are. I'm TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD.
> 
> A few of you have hit it right on the nose in previous comments. We're not husband and wife...we're roommates who happen to have two kids. To be honest with you (in my opinion) that's how she wants it.


a lot of stuff in here.

You've listed a lot of incidents that show why you're unhappy with your marriage, but I see two general themes:

- you feel disrespected
- you feel a lack of affection

These are tough issues to solve. You are not going to argue your way out of them. 

If you are interested in talking to your wife about things, I would suggest keeping it big picture and focusing on themes like this rather than particular incidents.

She can't tell you that you shouldn't feel how you do. She can argue with you about whether a facebook comment was appropriate or not. That type of argument is pointless-- don't engage in that. It makes you look small.

Whether or not you discuss anything with your wife, you need to decide what YOU can do to address these feelings that does not require her compliance. 

You cannot make her respect you or give you affection.

You CAN choose to disengage from interactions in which you feel disrespected or insufficiently valued.

For example, if you think your sex life is too pre-programmed, devoid of real intimacy, why not just skip it? next time she shuts you down in bed, instead of going along with it and continuing, why not just say, no thanks, and do something else?

wouldn't that be better than going along with it and feeling bad about it later (and resenting her for it)?

Regarding her being controlling, can she really control you? Can't you just ignore her? You wanted a new bed, so you bought it. Great. Does the fact that she complained about it mean that you didn't really need a new bed? It's kind of ridiculous, right? It was 25 yrs old. Isn't it actually kind of comical that she would make a big deal out of this? Are you able to let stuff like this roll off you, or, when she complains, does it have to become a big deal to you too?

By the way, I am not trying to bash you. I think I understand where you're at. I am sure it totally sucks. I'm just trying to point out a different perspective.


----------



## z_man

sideways said:


> Anon you may be correct. There might not be anything going on, but from my perspective it's worth digging around a little bit. Only time will tell, but whether something did (or didn't happen) I have a feeling I'll never truly know.
> 
> I just KNOW I can't continue going down this path.
> 
> This isn't about sex, but it bothers the HELL out of me that being together is basically a chore to her. We've been with each other for 17 yrs, and our sex life for the first 10 yrs was great. I know there's people on here complaining about how often they get together with their spouse (once a week, once a month, or not at all, etc). We're with each other twice a week so I'm suppose to shut my mouth and consider myself lucky? Sorry I'm not down with this.
> 
> Every time I've brought this up to my wife over the years she says that she's changed, and she's not like that anymore. I say bull ****!!!
> 
> As I've stated she doesn't want to kiss me, and on top of that there's now a bunch of rules in the bedroom. Can't do this.....don't touch there....hurry up so she can go to bed.
> 
> Well guess what...I've changed and this is now unacceptable to me. I'm tired of having these "talks" and NOTHING changes!!! I also mentioned previously about her mother being controlled by her stepdad, and her going to extremes to not follow in her footsteps. Well guess what, last week this subject came up and I called her out on it.
> 
> I said, you wake up in the morning, do I tell you what to eat for breakfast? Do I tell her if she can work out that day or not, do I tell her what she wears that day? She has the hole day while the kids are in school to do whatever she wants. If she wants to go volunteer at their school she can do so, she eats what she wants for lunch, if she wants to get together with her friends she can do so. I don's ask her where she's been or who she's been with. I don't have a say (nor should I) what shows she watches, or who she talks to on Facebook. Any advice I have regarding the kids goes in one ear and out the other. The money she makes is "her's", but the money I make is ours (which it should be). On top of that she has pass codes on her cell, laptop, iPad, and more then likely FB. She doesn't have to work either nor have I pushed her to get A job. She has a bunch of stuff to do, and trust me she's not bored.
> 
> You can blast me all you want, and why it's got to this point but you sure in the HELL can't call me CONTROLLING!!!!!
> 
> Now if I do go and ask her for her pass codes, and more importantly, why the need for them, I'm sure she would give them to me, but in her mind it will be me being controlling!!!
> 
> My life is flying by me, and SO many people I know have passed away over the past couple of years. With my mother's cancer and my dad just turning 91 and his medical issues.....yes life has been stressful. This **** is just adding to it, and I'm sorry but sitting down and sharing my soul to her just doesn't work. It may for a few days or week, but things just go back to the way they were.
> 
> I feel like I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. All the stuff I do for my family, and she can never say she's sorry if she's in the wrong. The comment on her FB page about not having a say so in family vacations. She still thinks she did nothing wrong, and her reply is "anyone who knows her knows that's not what she meant". When I tell her I went to people who know her extremely well, and read verbatim what she wrote they too thought it was out of line. That said she's still going to stick to her guns, and she did NOTHING wrong. She goes and *****es to my mom about me going and buying a new bed (the old one was 25 yrs old). If I did that (went and *****ed to her mom/dad about anything) she would be LIVID!!! Her parents would also quit talking to me. That's how pathetic they are. I'm TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD.
> 
> A few of you have hit it right on the nose in previous comments. We're not husband and wife...we're roommates who happen to have two kids. To be honest with you (in my opinion) that's how she wants it.



In case you have not heard or no one else has mentioned, The Married Man Sex Life Primer and The Mindful Attraction Plan by Athol Kay is an excellent resource to try and reclaim the marriage you had/want. And it's not just about the sex as the title implies.

Married Man Sex Life Forum


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## lostmyreligion

sideways said:


> She goes and *****es to my mom about me going and buying a new bed (the old one was 25 yrs old). If I did that (went and *****ed to her mom/dad about anything) she would be LIVID!!! Her parents would also quit talking to me. That's how pathetic they are. I'm TIRED OF THE DOUBLE STANDARD.


She did herself no favours by b!tching to your mom about you.

My wife and yours share a lot in common in terms of leisure time and responsibilities. She was raised an only child by a textbook (on all counts) NPD mother and father who is both an enabler, a self absorbed dyck and a blustering coward all rolled into one. 

Though she is not herself a narcissist, and for the most part has been an amazing mother, there are gaps in her empathy that reflect her upbringing. 

She knew full well that I was rural-boy-raised-on-'Walton's Mountain' and that my parents and 4 siblings were my best friends. Yet it never even occurred to her that my mother and sister might not take kindly to her b!tching to them about me being away from home so much and leaving it to her to look after the the 2 younger children with only our 11 year old daughter to help.

Even after my sister responded with "Oh you mean when he's away at the job he has to fly away from his family for to work 12 hours a day, 3 weeks straight at" she brushed it off.

My sister told me this after my mom passed. She said that my mom mostly pretended to be civil with my wife after that because she didn't want to stress me out by having me think that she was displeased with my choice of spouse. 

Your wife, like mine, doesn't seem to understand her audience.


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## Archangel2

sideways said:


> ...A few of you have hit it right on the nose in previous comments. We're not husband and wife...we're roommates who happen to have two kids. To be honest with you (in my opinion) that's how she wants it.


At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I urge you to try to get her to go to Retrouvaille with you. No, this is no magic bullet, but to quote their website:

"It provides the tools to help put your marriage in order again. The main emphasis of the program is on communication in marriage between husband and wife. It will give you the opportunity to rediscover each other and examine your lives together in a new and positive way". 

There is no downside in this for you, personally. If it works, then the upside to your marriage is unlimited. If it does not work (or if your wife refuses to go or simply "mails it in" as 2 other posters on this site found), then you will be able to look at yourself in the mirror and say "I tried" and the divorce will be more of a reflection on her.

I hope you give this every consideration.

Peace and strength.


----------



## sideways

Wanted to check back in with an update. First, we have major concerns about my mother, not just with her cancer, but we're seeing signs that she may be in the early stages of dementia. This is just killing me, and it's ramping up the stress. 

As for my wife, the phone statement finally arrived, and after looking at it I didn't find anything concerning (phone calls/texts). 

That said, moving forward, I will try to take into account all the wonderful advice I've received on here. More importantly...try to put it into action. I'm extremely humbled and so grateful to everyone who took the time to chime in with their thoughts and advice. 

When I look at my two kids that's ALL the motivation I need to put forth the effort to make this work with my wife. I will sit down with my wife, and let her know that I am not happy with the way things have been going and that changes need to happen (from both of us). I've done this in the past, but I haven't stressed that if things don't change after putting forth a TRUE effort that I'm seriously considering walking away from this marriage. Being her roommate is NO longer acceptable to me.

God bless and again thanks!!


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## Archangel2

sideways said:


> ... When I look at my two kids that's ALL the motivation I need to put forth the effort to make this work with my wife. I will sit down with my wife, and let her know that I am not happy with the way things have been going and that changes need to happen (from both of us). I've done this in the past, but I haven't stressed that if things don't change after putting forth a TRUE effort that I'm seriously considering walking away from this marriage. Being her roommate is NO longer acceptable to me.
> 
> God bless and again thanks!!


Sideways - Good luck to you and Godspeed. I hope you achieve whatever is best for you and your children. Please keep us posted on your progress.


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## turnera

So how did it go?


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## sideways

Thanks so much!! Appreciate your wisdom!!


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## sideways

Haven't been able to speak to her. Unfortunately my mom is back in the hospital again. My wife watched her (as well as my dad) this entire week during the day. Had to bring my mom to the ER late last night.


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## MattMatt

We'll be here for you.


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## Gabriel

sideways said:


> Our daughter is autistic, which brings all sorts of things to deal with. Also, for those of you who don't know, the divorce rate for parents with autistic kids is extremely high (like over 90%). It's usually the guy who can't handle it, and ultimately leaves. My wife has basically put ALL her energy into our kids.
> 
> I have no idea where this is going, but I'm tired of the path we've been going down.


That is good information. It's possible your wife is operating at max capacity, just holding things together. Having an autistic child is very taxing on the parents and it could be your wife just doesn't have much left for you. This happens with typical functioning kids too.


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## Archangel2

@sideways - I hope your Mom is ok. Otherwise, how are things going? Have you given any thought to Retrouvaille?


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## sideways

Archangel2 said:


> @sideways - I hope your Mom is ok. Otherwise, how are things going? Have you given any thought to Retrouvaille?


Thanks Archangel2.
My mom wasn't doing good. Had to go back in the hospital for about two weeks. She's out now and doing better. My wife has been so helpful taking care of both my parents. Things have been better. I've just been so busy, and my mom has another major surgery coming up.


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## bandit.45

Get busy living or get busy dying. Which would your mom want for you?


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## Archangel2

@sideways - Just wanted to check in. Is your Mom doing ok? Any progress on the marriage front?


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## Archangel2

Bump


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## Spotthedeaddog

sideways said:


> I said, you wake up in the morning, do I tell you what to eat for breakfast? Do I tell her if she can work out that day or not, do I tell her what she wears that day? She has the hole day while the kids are in school to do whatever she wants. If she wants to go volunteer at their school she can do so, she eats what she wants for lunch, if she wants to get together with her friends she can do so. I don's ask her where she's been or who she's been with. I don't have a say (nor should I) what shows she watches, or who she talks to on Facebook. Any advice I have regarding the kids goes in one ear and out the other. The money she makes is "her's", but the money I make is ours (which it should be). On top of that she has pass codes on her cell, laptop, iPad, and more then likely FB. She doesn't have to work either nor have I pushed her to get A job. She has a bunch of stuff to do, and trust me she's not bored.
> 
> You can blast me all you want, and why it's got to this point but you sure in the HELL can't call me CONTROLLING!!!!!


No, you're not "controlling" but you just described that she has a whole life that doesn't include you in it all.

Remember when you were first dating or engaged or just married?
Would you have spend the whole day doing "other stuff" and been content doing it? Well guess what, your relationship is just one of the tasks you used to brush off to do cooler interesting stuff ! And you've let it go that one until it's finally affecting you to the point you're actually unhappy (Mum is _turning_off_the_TV_, and you only get to watch educational shows now)


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## sideways

It's been quite awhile since I've been back to TAM. Crazy year. As I mentioned previously my mother has been really sick with cancer, and unfortunately she's back in the hospital again. I also have to say that my father got real sick at the beginning of June and spent the next 4.5 months in the hospital. He passed away about six weeks ago so this has been the year from hell. 

I just wanted to pop in and say hey, and I'll try and get back here again over the weekend with a further update with me and my wife. As I said my mother is back in the hospital (ICU), and I need to get back up there.


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## turnera

So sorry to hear everything that's happened. Have you looked into the mental aspect of cancer therapy? I used to work at a major cancer hospital, and a really big portion of their investigation is into the mind-body aspect of treatment and the patient's progress. Given your dad dying, is anyone addressing the metaphysical, transcendental aspect of her treatment? Yoga? Mala beads? Meditation? Maybe even Buddhist philosophy? We spent a lot of effort at the hospital getting patients into these things, with great effect.


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## sideways

Well I've finally had some time to get back to TAM with an update.

I don't really know where to start as there has been so much going on in my life over the past yr. As I mentioned in my last post my father recently passed away, and not too long after that my brothers baby passed away (three months old). My mother has cancer and has been in and out of the hospital for the past yr. She's presently in ICU (again). She's been in there for three weeks, and will hopefully be getting out in another 7-10 days.

Everything feels like a big dream, and the weight of everything going on is slowly but surely taking it's toll on me. I eat good and I work out five times a week. However the stress can be pretty overwhelming at times.

My wife has been extremely helpful in the care of my father (before he passed away) as well as the care of my mother. This has helped me and my sibs out a great deal.

Having watched my father whittle away right before my eyes and to be there when he passed away has really hit me to the core. It's made me ask myself a lot of questions about my life and the remaining time that I have left. I'm in my mid 50's and I want don't want to be living a life of just going through the emotions and to settle. I want to try to determine what's going to make me happy moving forward.

My relationship with my wife has basically become the two of us as roommates and taking care of our two kids.

As I've stated before, my wife and I had a fantastic sex life for yrs, however over the past five yrs or so it's basically become "duty sex" IMO and when we do it's get it over as fast as possible (her wanting it that way). She never wants to kiss me, and all of these things that we use to do in bed are now not allowed. When I ask why she says she "doesn't feel like doing it anymore".

There's NO passion in the relationship at all. Obviously there's been a lot going on with my parents, but I have tried my hardest to take the bull by the horns and pour as much of myself into the relationship as possible. We go out when we can, but even if it's me asking her to watch a movie at home for example she always has an excuse to not do it. Every single time I try to kiss her she has an excuse (she needs to brush her teeth or just pulls away), and if we're in bed and I try to kiss her she pulls away and if I say anything about it it's "don't tell me what to do".

I don't know when she would have time to mess around on me as her schedule is pretty full. That said I'm not naive to realize that if she really wanted to she could. My gut tells me if she did it happened awhile back (yrs ago).

I know I brought up months back that she has passwords for everything. Her cell phone (which also NEVER leaves her side), her iPad and her computer, and I'm sure she has it on Facebook as well (I'm not on Facebook). She now has finger print password on her iPhone. I asked her a few months ago why she needed passwords for her cell phone, and her response was "that I'm just going to have to trust her". She can get on my computer (she has my passcode), my iPad (no passcode required) and my cell phone doesn't need a password either. She claims that she has the finger print password because of her part time job that contains confidential info of clients (which is true), however she never needed the finger print password before (she just had a password).

Every single time I try to talk to her about our relationship she shucks it off. Thinks things are great in her opinion. 

She comes from a family that doesn't talk about anything, and she will NEVER own up if she has done anything wrong. I feel like I'm going to explode and I'm tired of living this way. 

I want to know what the hell is going on with her.

She's made these decisions on her own, and never asked me about it. There's a part of me that wants to tell her I don't want to have sex with her anymore (duty sex), but hell she'd probably be glad to hear this. Then she doesn't have to do something that she doesn't want to do anyway.

I've tried a VAR and that's just not going to work as you can't ever really hear her talk that good because the radio is always playing. The recorder also fills up pretty fast and it's going to draw attention to myself asking her for her keys and to make up some excuse as to why I need her car.

I want to just take her phone from her and demand that she gives me the code/finger print to get on it. I wouldn't really know what to look for, and more then likely if there was any texts that she's deleted them. I know people on here claim that they can be recovered. 

How would I pull this off in a timely matter (again her phone never leaves her side), and if I don't know what to look for I would just drive this further underground?

I also don't need her claiming that I'm just trying to control her. In fact as stated on here previously I have NO control over here and in fact have given her way too much freedom and control.

If I said this is all BS (the passwords, the no kissing, all the changes in bed etc) and asked her to take a polygraph to prove to me that there's nothing going on (now or previously) in her mind this would be taken as me trying to control her. Her mother is a very simple woman. Her first husband left her, and her current husband is very controlling.

I can go on and on and I know I'm rambling but I just can't take anymore of this. 

My whole family loves my wife and they have no idea what I've been dealing with. I do NOT want to break up my marriage over all of this as it would destroy my kids. I have never cheated in my life, and I never will, however for the first time in marriage I am really considering leaving her to make some sort of point as NOTHING else has worked to get her attention. I also don't want to be played as some fool if there is something going on behind my back (now or even if it happened way back).

Suggestions on how to move forward?

God bless.


----------



## Tron

Is there any way that this situation is related to your run of tragedies over the past year?

If so, you might pursue that in IC.

If you still think there might be something going on with your W outside the marriage, why don't you break into her phone by running her finger on it while she is sleeping

If you simply aren't happy at all with the relationship and are ready to get out, then this might be in order:

Sideways to W: 

_"I am sick and tired of not having my emotional needs met in this marriage. The intimacy is **** and it just isn't working for me anymore. I think it's time we separate."_ 

Then make it happen.


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## turnera

She's gotta sleep SOMEtime, right? IIWY, I would take the phone out from under her pillow or wherever she stashes it, and go put it in some obscure hiding place she'd never think to look. When she asks you if you took it, just give her a what-are-you-talking-about look and a shrug. Let her go crazy, go about your own business. She'll eventually go to work or wherever she goes, and you can go get the phone and take it to a hacker who will open it for you.

Assuming she's not cheating, are you aware that women have to be emotionally connected to want to have sex? And to have that connection, she needs many things, such as still going out on dates, trying out new places, time away from kids and electronics, meeting her needs, and not doing things you know make her unhappy. If you're not doing these things, no wonder she doesn't want sex with you.


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## MattMatt

turnera said:


> She's gotta sleep SOMEtime, right? IIWY, I would take the phone out from under her pillow or wherever she stashes it, and go put it in some obscure hiding place she'd never think to look. When she asks you if you took it, just give her a what-are-you-talking-about look and a shrug. Let her go crazy, go about your own business. She'll eventually go to work or wherever she goes, and you can go get the phone and take it to a hacker who will open it for you.
> 
> Assuming she's not cheating, are you aware that women have to be emotionally connected to want to have sex? And to have that connection, she needs many things, such as still going out on dates, trying out new places, time away from kids and electronics, meeting her needs, and not doing things you know make her unhappy. If you're not doing these things, no wonder she doesn't want sex with you.


Take her work phone to a hacker? :wtf:

_Seriously_? How would he find a hacker? Especially one he could trust?:scratchhead:

This is not the movies, his best friend at college did not become a top hacker working for the government but who does favours on the side for his pals for a crate of craft ale.


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## badmemory

Sorry about your family issues sideways. I can empathize. Both our mothers were on Hospice while my WW was having her affair. Hers died during it, mine died a few weeks after Dday.

Now, about your marriage. The way your wife is treating you and her pass coding of everything; should not be acceptable to you. Period.

She may be cheating, but you haven't found anything in all these months; albeit it's made it that much harder by her hiding everything from you. That said, I'm not sure you've tried hard enough to catch her. You know what to do.

But, if you want to keep this charade of a marriage going for the kids sake, read no further. 

Otherwise, if you want my two cents, here it is.

I would make one final attempt at surveillance. You should use every tool in your arsenal. Phone records, GPS, VAR, PI. Give it one month. If you still come up with nothing, then time to give her the "I can't control you, but I can control what I accept from you" speech.

You let her know you will no longer to accept her lack of affection, disinterest in sex, and her non-transparency. Tell her you also want to go to MC. Either she will comply or not. If not, do the 180, put her out of your bedroom, start the divorce process, and formulate your exit plan. Head straight to divorce unless or until she shows you that she wants to save her marriage. 

Of course, if you catch her cheating and want to consider R; that's a different ballgame. You might want to check back with us on that.


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## Cynthia

Your wife is emotionally unavailable and secretive. You don't want to live that way even if she's not having an affair. That is the bottom line. Anything else just gets in the way. You don't have to find anything out. You don't have to prove anything. Your marriage isn't working for you. What are you going to do about it?

If you don't want to stay with her, start preparing to leave. Stop having sex with her. Buy a digital book to read on your phone or tablet about divorce and read up on divorce in your state. Fill yourself with knowledge about this subject. Take what you learn and make a plan for divorce. Once you have all your ducks in a row, tell your wife that the marriage is not working for you. You will not continue to live with an emotionally distant and disconnected woman. If she wants to stay married to you, she will have to work with you to resolve those issues and to let you into her life without hiding anything. She will need to do some reading on how to improve the marriage and probably go to marriage counseling with you. She has to be all in. If she doesn't agree, then implement your plan immediately and don't look back.

The biggest mistake I see people making is moving too soon in telling their spouse what's going on before they have a plan in place. It's important to not show your hand until you are prepared for the consequences.


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## badmemory

I'll add; if you are confident that you've done the best you can to monitor her for cheating, then so be it. Go ahead and have your talk. But CynthiaDe's advice is well founded. It's certainly wise to get your ducks in a row first so you're not just shooting from the hip. Also it's all the more likely to get her serious attention - seeing that you're being decisive about your intentions. 

Maybe it's just the way I think, but regardless of how bad she's treating you, I'd want to make sure I did everything I could to know whether I'm leaving her for cheating as well.


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## turnera

*shrug* I know a couple of them, friends of my DD26.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

Any reason why you didn't start using facebook actively and friending your own family and wife? Any reason why you wouldn't stop the sex immediately when your wife tells you to hurry up and/or get it over with? You are so afraid to confront her because she'll play the controlling card. Call her on her bullsh!t. At this point in time, I don't think she's cheating on you. However, I believe that your wife has been blasting you to other people every chance she gets. I think that's why the neighbor guy can't look at you. Your wife probably told him that you are a controlling asshat.


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## sideways

My mother was finally released from the hospital yesterday (in there for quite awhile).

So much going on over the past year with my father being sick and passing away along with my mother being sick as well. Hard to determine how much of this is spilling into my relationship with my wife (probably quite a bit). Things have been this way even before they both got sick however.

I can't live this way anymore. I sat my wife down and told her this. That things need to change or it probably makes sense to go our separate ways. So either we're both all in and willing to commit to this (and do the things necessary to get us on a good path), and if not, then again why go through the motions.

Watching my father whittle away before me and eventually passing away right in front of me has really shaken me to the core. A lot of questions swirling round. I've been staring at death since Jan of last year (hospitals/cancer). Who knows how things are going to play out for me, but in the time I have left walking this earth (with my health) I want to live a life that will make me happy and hopefully not having any major regrets in 20 yrs. What does this mean? What are the things I want to do and change in order to achieve these things? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

I want to make this work not just for me and my wife but for my kids as well.

However I can't do this by myself. Have told her we need to go to MC and she agreed. I think we truly need to learn to communicate again (especially healthy communication). I will put in the work, but I will also be gauging her as well to see if it's just talk on her part or if she's willing to put in the work? If after six months I don't see things changing in the right direction, and I'm the only one really trying here, then it's time to go our separate ways. I have conveyed this to my wife, and we'll see how things play out. Trying to find a good/reputable MC'er.

That's where things are and I appreciate all the advice that was provided.


----------



## Archangel2

sideways said:


> My mother was finally released from the hospital yesterday (in there for quite awhile)...
> 
> I want to make this work not just for me and my wife but for my kids as well.
> 
> However I can't do this by myself. Have told her we need to go to MC and she agreed. I think we truly need to learn to communicate again (especially healthy communication). I will put in the work, but I will also be gauging her as well to see if it's just talk on her part or if she's willing to put in the work? If after six months I don't see things changing in the right direction, and I'm the only one really trying here, then it's time to go our separate ways. I have conveyed this to my wife, and we'll see how things play out. Trying to find a good/reputable MC'er.
> 
> That's where things are and I appreciate all the advice that was provided.


 @sideways - Sorry for coming back so late to this thread. I hope your mother will recover and be with you many more years.

As far as your need to learn to communicate with each other, you should investigate Retrouvaille (here I go again, a broken record). It will provide both of you the tools to better communicate with each other. It will not be easy. You will both need to be "all in" for the process, but I believe it will best meet your needs. They have a website (Retrouvaille.org) that explains the process and lists the schedule and locations where Retrouvaille weekends are being held. Because of the commitment required, this program will "smoke out" your wife's commitment to improving your marriage. 

I hope you give this serious consideration. What have you got to lose?


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