# Guess I'm on Plan B



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

The e-mail account that my wife unlocked over the weekend was very clean. At first I thought it was too clean. Then I found an e-mail to FROM HER to "someone", asking why HE had hadn't called her back, saying SHE was concerned that he had "used her" and several other things that were more than enough to push me over the edge.

I tried calling her, but she was out drinking with her male cousin. For some reason she gave him the phone - avoiding reality I guess?

I forwarded the e-mail referenced above to her mother, who will see it when she arrives at work tomorrow.

I transferred a large sum of money from "our" account to the one I had set up in my name only several months ago.

Then I sent her the following letter (much thanks to MEM for a lot of the wording and structure):

Tuesday, June 29, 2010

Dear,

I love you deeply. I have committed the best parts of myself and my life to you for more than 20 years

My commitment over the last year was based on the idea that you would eventually stop secretly seeking the attention of other men, but you seem unable or unwilling to prove to me that this ended. This type of behavior has been destroying our marriage and I cannot begin to heal until I am sure that it has stopped.

I have recently pleaded with you for openness and honesty. I’ve made it clear that without these things, our marriage cannot heal. I have also repeatedly said that I need to know everything that has happened to avoid any future surprises and setbacks. You recently assured me that I know everything that you have done and that you have been faithful. Tonight I found an e-mail that I feel confirms my worst suspicions. Maybe I’m wrong, but at this point I feel the burden of proof is on you.

Over the last year, you've indicated through word and action that your personal privacy and freedoms are more important to you than what I feel it would take to help our marriage begin to heal. You have consistently lied to me about secret relationships with other men, and I am concerned about your unwillingness to assure me that this behavior has stopped.

I am tired of us hurting one another. I will respect your wishes for privacy and personal freedom.

I am finally beginning to accept that you have needs that I don't understand and may be unable to meet. You don't seem to be happy in a traditional, monogamous marriage - the type of marriage we had before you began secretly texting and calling other men last year. I am very sad at how things have changed, and I'm truly sorry that I don't have enough of whatever it is you need that would make you want to stay and be with me.

In order to protect my own rights and my rights as a parent, I am proposing that we begin the process of a formal separation.

In the short term, I am moving additional dollars to my personal checking account, leaving you with 25% of our current cash balance, or approximately $xxx. I arrived at this amount based on the assumption that I will continue to be the primary caregiver to our two children. The two children and I make up 75% of our family. I promise that I will continue to spend our families money responsibly and that I will leave a trail of accountability that anyone could easily follow. I will need for you to assist me in obtaining the billing information for any accounts directly related to the house, the children or myself. If you refuse to work with me regarding our financial situation, I will contact an attorney.

I am doing this in part because you have frequently withdrawn large sums of money with no explanation or accountability, including a $500 withdrawal for "spending money" back in March. You have admitted that you like to have cash on hand to limit my ability to ask questions about how you are spending our money. As another example of your desire to hide your financial transactions and lifestyle choices, you recently obtained a Discover Card of your own. You have made it clear to me that what you do with this card is none of my business.

I will also begin depositing my paycheck to my new personal account as soon as possible.

I would like to end this letter by saying that I am simply trying to protect our family. I still love you, and I don't want that to change. But I can no longer allow you to hurt me. I no longer wish to be around someone who spends hours a day, in my presence, doing things on the computer and iPhone that I'm told are none of my business. By separating now, I hope to preserve what love I still have for you and I pray that we can one day we can reconcile and work together to build a stronger family - the family that you, I and our children deserve.

Love, 

NG


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

I have mixed feeling about this. I can see that it is time to move forward, yet you will be apart soon. Might you just ask her to leave and do an "out of the house" Plan A like I am doing? I don't want to add to the confusion. I know how hard it was to make this decision. The letter is very impressive and well thought out. At this point you may no other choice than to do what you are doing. 
I think as a Plan B letter there are some things missing. No contact and arranging for visits with the children. Otherwiae it is a modified Plan A like my situation. That is not a bad thing but it may allow her too much wiggle room and not enough consequence. I hate the pain of consequence. You love her, but she needs tough love. If it doesn't work you will be in a position to move on. Be sure to keep a copy of the letter.


----------



## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

hi there, 
I'm sorry things have gotten to this point but I also think you have been more than patient and more than willing to try to understand what it is your wife needs.....
I agree with you that she hasn't shown a lot of willingness to work on your marriage without her secret life......
I think maybe this plan will shock her into reality when she is not getting her needs met by you, where will she be.....
Stay strong and take care of you now......and your children....they are lucky you are strong and willing.
I'm still hopeful for you and your marriage.....Plan B will free you from all the day to day worrying and wondering.....
Be open minded and see how life can change for you ........
good luck


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

btw - just to make sure I'm not the victim of some kind of fog, here's the e-mail I found.

AND TO CLARIFY, *THIS IS FROM MY WIFE *TO SOME OTHER MAN:

ANY IDEAS WHAT "POF" WOULD BE???

*"You are gone from POF?
Are we not friends?

"You never called...were you not serious that you wanted to?
I thought you wanted to see me again...did I scare you away?
If so, what did I do? It's important that you tell me...it will help me to know what kinda "vibe" I give off.

"I really hope that you were not just trying to use me, or that you lied about who you were.
I need to know the truth about what is going on, plus now you have me worried about you...

"Just an explanation...that's all I need...please be a decent guy and text me or call me and just explain.
Then, if you want, I will leave you alone. I promise.
I'm confused and actually kinda hurt.
I thought we had a good time..."*

Her mom knows about half of whats gone on, in addition to opinions she's formed based on the behavior that she's seen directly.

Any chance someone who only knows HALF the story would read this and think I've overreacted?

Going on 2 hours sleep right now. Hard to think clearly. 

Luckily I had typed the letter (modified from MEM's letter in my other thread) a couple of days ago. I don't think it reads like someone, very upset, typing at 1am.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

Oh boy. Surely it is just what you thought it is. How long ago did this email go out? This is the smoking gun. If this affair has continued, or her interest in this has continued, it would appear that this would be obstruction to your marriage. If it isn't then she is prowling. Your letter is the right thing to do. You can't fund the affair. You can't make her comfortable. If she wants to keep going with this single girl attitude then she should do it without you. Mark your calendar so you will be ready to move on.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

The letter was from February. I've been very focused lately on creating transparency after I found some other evidence relating to her secret friendships.

She assured me that there would be nothing else to find.

E-mailed her mother again this morning, asking her to let me know she received my e-mail, and explaining that I'm actually still trying to save the marriage (at least I think I am), but really needed some help.

I recognize that this isn't a "classic" Plan B yet - probably seems like "Plan B Lite".

I am feeling severely worn down and trying to work on 2 hours sleep (did I say that already?).

Thanks all.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Oh - and I also re-sent her e-mail to the yahoo and hotmail addresses she had sent it to asking the guy how he knew my wife and why he didn't call her back. Doubt I'll hear anything.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So what exactly are you doing? Are you already living separately?

A good Plan B will also have 'instructions' on how to get you back, if she so decides. A roadmap, if you will. You may want to send an addendum.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes - I know I will need to provide additional information. Trying to sort through in my own head right now what is best for the kids, while still allowing me some free time to work on myself a bit more.

We have been separated for 7 months already.

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but if MEM hadn't written something so close to what needed to be said, I would be sitting here right now with no real direction at all. I had modified MEM's letter shortly after he posted it. I was trying to give her a bit of time to process my request for transparency before sending it.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Ok, thanks. I couldn't remember if you had already separated. 

It's different for each person, on what they can survive when a spouse cheats. Some people leave the instant they find out. Others drag it on for years, if not life, because they can't bare to be without that person, no matter how much they abuse them. And it's recommended that you DO separate after a certain time, if they refuse to stop contact or to come clean, because you can only beat yourself up for so long before you suffer trauma. It sounds like you hit that point, so I wish you luck.

I also believe that MANY people simply can't change without the BS leaving them, and giving Plan B letters. 

Whichever way it turns out, you're doing what you need to do for yourself. Best of luck.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

And this is all just a big stupid guess, but I don't get the idea that she's creating any real lasting relationships. Its more like she's enjoying the "single life".

I work with numbers. AT&T has an AWESOME website when it comes to being able to download data related to your phone bill.

When I list out the numbers she's called and texted the most, it literally looks like a stairstep over a number of months. Basically she'll text a guy for one or two months and then just stop, and then some new numbers will show up for the next couple of months.

The texting and calling has dwindled, but not stopped completely. There was a "new" number about a month ago - maybe 5 short calls and one 30 minute late night call over a few days. She said she just talked to the guy briefly before blowing him off.

Just telling you guys what I see. Not sure what to make of any of this anymore.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

I really really hope she wakes up. You have shown tremendous maturity, patience and commitment to the marriage. I pray that she realizes what an amazing partner you are. 

This is a sad situation. 




nice777guy said:


> Yes - I know I will need to provide additional information. Trying to sort through in my own head right now what is best for the kids, while still allowing me some free time to work on myself a bit more.
> 
> We have been separated for 7 months already.
> 
> Don't want to sound like a broken record, but if MEM hadn't written something so close to what needed to be said, I would be sitting here right now with no real direction at all. I had modified MEM's letter shortly after he posted it. I was trying to give her a bit of time to process my request for transparency before sending it.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM - the fact that this website even exists is just ridiculous.

Any advice on how to handle marriage therapy at this point? Do we continue to go together?

If I felt sure my wife would show up tonight, I would be tempted to call the therapist and give her an update, and then not show up myself. Me not showing up might actually freak her out a bit.

Also strongly considering just going alone - telling her not to bother until she's ready to take things seriously and that I'd rather spend the hour talking about what to do for ME and the kids.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Without a full commitment from her to provide you with financial and electronic transparency, I don't think you have anything meaningful to discuss. 

My experience has been that continuing to interact with someone after you have drawn your line in the sand causes them to believe that they can redraw the line in a location far more favorable to themselves. 

From everything I have read, if you were to go to "limited communication" now where you only discuss schedules, logistics and child issues, that would be the strongest possible message to her that you are serious about "your" boundaries. 

I would provide the MC a copy of the letter via email and tell her/him that you have nothing further to discuss with your W until she chooses to come clean and agree to your requests.

And then start grieving for your marriage. Because for her, this IS a type of addiction. Your W MAY choose to break its grip but for your sanity start to move ahead assuming she won't. 

The stronger her perception that you "accept" the death of your marriage the more likely it is she will actually come to her senses. As long as she continues to believe you "hope" she stops this nonsense, she will feel safe doing it with the knowledge that you will still take her back. 

At some point she is going to have to know a hard date that represents the point of no return with you. She is acting like a child and actually wants some limits. 

As for your analysis of her relationships I think you are dead on. Which means she keeps getting hurt. Like many addicts, she hates the bad side effects of her addiction, but cannot quit without hitting rock bottom. 




nice777guy said:


> MEM - the fact that this website even exists is just ridiculous.
> 
> Any advice on how to handle marriage therapy at this point? Do we continue to go together?
> 
> ...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I agree.


----------



## josh1081 (Jul 10, 2009)

Yeah, that email is vague, but vague to the point of arousing suspicion. I, personally, wouldn't be able to stand that because I like to take words and create situations out of them that are usually much more blown up then whatever happened. At least my wife and her p.o.s. were 'smart' enough to be blunt. I found a chat log that started off with about two sentences of pleasantries and then rocketed off with "do you wanna [email protected]# me again?" Then I had to read about how worn out he made her and that she fantasizes about him still. Really put my doubts about there being an affair to rest lol 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Right now I think that hard date would be the end of the summer.

The apartment lease is under my name. One thing I took out of my letter last night was something like this:

"Since the apartment lease is currently under my name, I planning to tell them on July 31st that I will be terminating the lease within 30 days. That gives you two full months from today to make whatever living arrangements you feel are necessary."

Wanted to be sure about this part before sending it to her while so tired and distressed. At this point, I think it sounds very reasonable.

I e-mailed the MC a copy of my wife's "where did you go" e-mail, but haven't sent her a copy of my "Plan B Lite" letter yet.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Josh - sorry for what you are going through.

I understand that the e-mail is "somewhat" vague, but it does at least verify that they met up with each other - "I thought you would want to see me again".

The comment about just "using her" obviously sounds pretty lousy too. Maybe he used her to put up wallpaper. If so, let her show me a written contract, or maybe take me to his house and show off her work.

There's been way too much smoke for there to be no fire, and as I stated, the burden of proof is now on her.

I've become "fond" of telling her that even if I'm wrong about half of what I believe, the other half is still lousy enough for me to end this with a clear conscience.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Honest question. Lets say it turns out you are fully correct and that she has had PA's with 3-6 men. Provided she convinces you she is finished with her crazy phase, can you forgive and move forward? 

If you can forgive this you should proceed. If you cannot you should rethink your plan. Based on the information provided, 3-6 is a reasonable number given how long this has gone on. 

I DO think that you are going to have to learn a different way to interact with your wife. If you continue to steer your marriage in a very cautious, slow and gentle manner while she behaves in an aggressive and fast moving way you are going to be miserable. 

If I was your wife I would take your letter to mean: I am running out of patience. But she has been hearing that for a while. Until she knows a "drop dead date" she is going to push your boundaries. I think she questions whether you have the strength of will to walk away. 




nice777guy said:


> Josh - sorry for what you are going through.
> 
> I understand that the e-mail is "somewhat" vague, but it does at least verify that they met up with each other - "I thought you would want to see me again".
> 
> ...


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

Hey guy,

Don't even hint that you'll eventually get back together. 7 months and she's still prowling? Still hiding her single life from you? There has never been a serious threat to cut her off and/or leave her.

1 - Talk to a lawyer and get your legal ducks in a row.
2 - Make an appointment with a divorce arbitrator. That lets her know you're serious, but not (yet) going to get nasty. If she refuses to go with this arrangement, have the lawyer serve papers.

I know she's the mother of your children, but I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to end this as soon as you can so you can get on with your life. And I take back that recommendation to spy on her at the bars. I think you know what's going on there. 

Good luck


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

This may sound dumb, but part of the reason that I believe these relationships don't last is because they aren't actually physical - or maybe not physical "enough". I have no proof of anything and no real way to call her bluff at the moment.

My belief all along is that my wife leads these guys on to get the attention, then they grow tired of her when they realize its a dead end street.

Also, the communication that I can see has actually died down in the last 2 months while her time at home has increased. This e-mail is from February. Maybe it was really bad back then but she can somehow prove that she's worked on things (which I really doubt.)

Part of me would just LOVE to hear what her explanation about the "just using me" or whatever comment would be, but I'm hoping her Mom will get to have that talk with her.

I'm really not sure what I'm willing to do right now in terms of forgiveness, etc., Its hard to imagine ending it, and its hard to imagine continuing...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
If the sentiment below is what comes across when you deal with your wife - a very middle ground, thoughtful stance, you are NEVER going to see the end of this. 

She has been treating you so badly for so long that you don't seem to realize she is STILL acting in a manner that a self respecting husband would not tolerate for a day much less another couple months.

You have put pressure on her, she is managing her addiction to improve the optics without making any real concessions. She carefully calculated the minimum cooperation needed to keep you in play and then executed her plan. 

To break an addiction you need to create a crisis. Otherwise she is just going to continue to be careful about leaving evidence and sadly continue to lose respect for you for allowing her to do this. 

I DO understand your fear of losing the marriage. I DON'T understand your desire to be in a marriage with no trust, no respect and a HUGELY manipulative wife. 

She refused to take your call about this email. Come on. Be real. Accept what is happening and draw your bright line in the sand. 

By the way - you need to at least answer to YOURSELF what you will do if she has gone physical a few times. I see NO reason to believe that she leads them on and they get frustrated. If SHE were leading THEM on why would she need to spend so much money. Sorry - this does not triangulate. 




nice777guy said:


> This may sound dumb, but part of the reason that I believe these relationships don't last is because they aren't actually physical - or maybe not physical "enough". I have no proof of anything and no real way to call her bluff at the moment.
> 
> My belief all along is that my wife leads these guys on to get the attention, then they grow tired of her when they realize its a dead end street.
> 
> ...


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

So her addiction is playing out a little differently then mine. I believe my wife only had one affair, the one she has going on now. She is high and likes staying there. Triple7 has a wife that gets high and crashes. Then chases the next high. In my wife's case I am just waiting for the drugs effect to fade. Then she would see that there was nothing special to what was doing with the OP. Triple7's wife is another breed. She gets high and crashes. Gets high again.


----------



## NotJustMe (Jun 24, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> btw - just to make sure I'm not the victim of some kind of fog, here's the e-mail I found.
> 
> ANY IDEAS WHAT "POF" WOULD BE???


POF would most likely be PlentyOfFish.com, an internet dating site.


----------



## Mommybean (Jan 22, 2009)

Yeah, if you Google POF the first thing that pops up is PlentyOfFish.com.


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

NG, I'm with Mem. She simply doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. It isn't even worth asking the question at this point. As others have indicated, POF is a dating site, pure and simple. Get ready for the freakshow - and ignore it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

If I could step in here for a moment and make one, rational suggestion. 

NiceGuy, you are operating on 2 hours sleep right now. I would suggest that you decide now to make no further decisions and/or take no further actions today until you've had the opportunity to sleep. Here's why I suggest that. 

Right now you are exhausted: mentally, physically, emotionally. When you make decisions that are going to affect your entire life and the lives of your children and yes your wife, you are going to want to be "of sound mind and body" and that is not the condition you're in now. 

So for now, put other decisions and actions "on hold." Take your phone off the hook, lock the doors, and just do a bunch of nothing until you've had a chance to sleep well. Then let's continue. Okay? Will you consider my recommendation?


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AC - yes - I will take your suggestion.

Wife has left two incredibly normal sounding messages.

Finally got a reply from MIL - one to both of us, and another to just me. Of course her perspective focused primarily on the kids.

I actually googled POF last night and didn't catch it. Thanks to all.


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

POF is Plenty of Fish, a online dating site. So it sounds like this other guy is upset that she closed her dating profile on Plenty of Fish.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Read again At - or maybe I need to clarify - my WIFE is the one sending the e-mail, upset that HE is no longer responding!

Thought that was clear


----------



## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Great letter! Let me commend you on standing tall. She is much more likely to respect you more. Remember You don't need love to respect someone, but you need respect to love someone.


----------



## cody5 (Sep 2, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> I believe these relationships... aren't actually physical


That's never really been the point, has it? I've NEVER thought your wife's affairs were physical. It's probably why she doesn't truly "get" what she's doing to her family. 



nice777guy said:


> I have no proof of anything and no real way to call her bluff at the moment.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Bluff? You already both know she's hanging out at meat markets until 3AM with regularity. Has had emotional affairs in the past. Is hiding her electronic communications from you. You have seen the "proof" recently that she is missing her most recent boyfriend. Bluff? Trip 7's, I sometimes wonder if you are in the here-and-now.
> ...


----------



## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

Im surpized nobody has said anything but unless you are all ready seperated taking 75% of the maritial assets may cause you a lot of grief with a judge at least it would here were maritial assets are community property and you spouse owns 50% of them. I would consult with an attourney to find out what the laws are in your state as a good attourney could make you look real bad if you are taking more than you are entitled to, just a thought.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Brewster - I'd love to hear other opinions on this one. I keep a budget and I've given my wife no reason to believe she can't trust me in any way. So, I moved 75% of our money because the kids are primarily in my custody, and also because she's proven time and time again to be untrustworthy, although money has not been a major issue - just lying about other guys. I need to consult an attorney, stop reading about how to save a marriage and begin reading about divorce.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Wife missed MC tonight. Things seemed very clear to me after reviewing everything with my therapist. I told my wife tonight that I thought it would be best for everyone if we got a divorce.

This hurts like hell.

Of course she cried, acted surprised, told me again that nothing ever happened. And I told her that I just couldn't believe her after all of the lies.

What hurts the most is when my 10 year old comes into the room and Mommy is crying. I get accused of hurting Mommy - I look like the bad guy. No way to escape the pain from seeing the anger on my daughter's face, and feeling like its the right thing is of no help.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you told your daughter the truth? PLEASE do. She is being harmed by being 'protected,' especially at her age.

I'm sorry about your wife, btw.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I see no good in telling her that Mommy's a liar, especially when there is already so much animosity between the two of them. I think telling her that would just hurt her even more.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I just keep wondering if there is any chance that the "aliens" will ever bring my wife back.

I truly don't understand it - no matter how many similar stories I read. Fourteen years of marriage - not all were perfect - but they were mostly good. The lying just came out of nowhere. She was always bold enough before that she didn't NEED to lie.

No - I don't want to stay married to someone I can't trust, but that's not who she was for 14 years. Not at all.


----------



## cb45 (Oct 2, 2009)

theres a divorce going on every minute.....


----------



## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Niceguy~

Remember my advice? About making no major decisions and getting some REST? :slap:

Please do me a favor. For the rest of the night tonight, do not fill out divorce papers, do not call in-laws or have talks with daughters, do not do anything other than kick back, watch a super good movie that you love, have some popcorn and coke or rootbeer, and relax. 

Seriously these things will be there in the morning and you very sincerely need the rest. Rest your soul, your mind and your body and in the morning you can hit it renewed. 

Finally--I think I would mention just one thing. I don't think this is really Plan B. Plan B is a very concerted effort after a long and pretty successful Plan A in an attempt to save the marriage. I believe this is much, much closer to Plan FU. And honestly, I am not going to disagree with your move to this plan.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The process of divorce - IF she sees you as calm and determined is likely your best (still less than a 50/50 at this point) shot at achieving reconciliation. Her biggest issues right now are about commitment. She simply doesn't feel the need to totally commit to the marriage. Perhaps as she watches it come to an end she will come to her senses. 

But if you are overly generous in your financial settlement she will use that generosity as a means to avoid dealing with reality. Her current situation allows her to put ALL the financial stress and most of the child rearing load on you. UNTIL THAT ENDS she has much less incentive to change anything.




nice777guy said:


> I just keep wondering if there is any chance that the "aliens" will ever bring my wife back.
> 
> I truly don't understand it - no matter how many similar stories I read. Fourteen years of marriage - not all were perfect - but they were mostly good. The lying just came out of nowhere. She was always bold enough before that she didn't NEED to lie.
> 
> No - I don't want to stay married to someone I can't trust, but that's not who she was for 14 years. Not at all.


----------



## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

nice777guy said:


> Read again At - or maybe I need to clarify - my WIFE is the one sending the e-mail, upset that HE is no longer responding!
> 
> Thought that was clear


It wasn't clear to me then. Looks like you edited the earlier posts so can't tell if I misread or it was unclear.

Anyway... if she unlocks an email account to you, of course she will sweep it clean. Looks like she missed a spot.

At this point though it just seems like all it proves is flirtation and her rejection by another man from four months ago. So that's bad of course, but you knew that sort of stuff was going on then anyway.

I guess my question is "is she doing anything with another man NOW, or was she trying to reach out to you".


----------



## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

I feel for you Nice777guy......
I think you are in a situation where she just doesn't get it what she is doing to your relationship and you.....by contacting other men.......she is married to you......she just doesn't value you that like she should.....
You can't just keep hoping that she will change, you have been patient and given her every chance to change for the better of the marriage......she won't, doesn't want to, can't for whatever her reasons are....
It's sad when a marriage ends but what are you going to do with her, look over your shoulder the rest of your life, live with the fear there is someone else in her life.....I know just from the few months I have lived with this(my husband's contact with OW) that I couldn't do for an extended time, that would just be to painful....
Start the divorce proceedings and hopefully she will wake up, if not you will find peace again even though you don't see it right now......
(HUGS)


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

AC - the only thing I did was tell my wife that I thought it would be best for us to divorce. 

Right now if you are going to scold me with emoticons that smack their heads, please do me a favor and don't. Do you really think there is any other conclusion for me at this point?

After a whopping 5.5 hours of sleep I still see no way I could ever trust her again unless she showed MAJOR changes.

My MC said that now maybe I can stop wasting so much energy on my wife, trying to figure out if she's been faithful or just a big lying flirt. I can start putting that energy towards myself, my job and most importantly my kids. 

The e-mail my MIL sent said that the kids said I'm much happier and spend more time with them when Mommy isn't around. 

THAT is actually what pushed me over - not the other stuff.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

How did you jump from Plan B lite to Plan FU? Well the frustration and lack of sleep must have just pushed you over the edge. What is done is done. Now it is a Plan B Lite/FU. Do you push this with telling her what you will do legally, but maintain a Plan A attitude? Boy is thiis a hybred.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I see no good in telling her that Mommy's a liar, especially when there is already so much animosity between the two of them. I think telling her that would just hurt her even more.


 There's actually good reason to tell her. Right now, she doesn't understand what's going on. She wants to side with her mom, as is natural for a girl that age, but she doesn't understand why mom has turned into an alien. She is plenty old enough to understand the chemical high your wife is getting by flirting and how it can effect her family. In fact, it would be a great way to show her what doing drugs would cause her to act like. Plus, like every OTHER kid in the world, she is at least partially blaming herself for y'all's problems. Because no one is telling her the truth.

And it would help your daughter hate her LESS because she can understand that there is a reason her mom is ruining y'all's lives. Kind of like knowing someone is mentally ill keeps you from hating them for smashing up your car.

It WILL do her good to know her mom is lying; in fact, I wish you would have told her a long time ago, because your wife knowing that her daughter knows what she is doing (as many of us push with recommending exposure) would have been one of the ONLY things that could have possibly woken her up and gotten her to stop.

Look at you. YOU said that your kids' remarks are what pushed YOU over the edge. Kids do have that much power. Your wife knowing her own daughter disapproves of her can be a powerful wakeup call. If nothing else, it may make her wake up and grow some morals for how she deals with them in the future.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

iamnottheonlyone said:


> How did you jump from Plan B lite to Plan FU? Well the frustration and lack of sleep must have just pushed you over the edge. What is done is done. Now it is a Plan B Lite/FU. Do you push this with telling her what you will do legally, but maintain a Plan A attitude? Boy is thiis a hybred.


What would you suggest for me at this point?

I probably started Plan B too late and never properly executed Plan A. I think its too late to go back now. And the only thing I intend to push for the short term is for minimal contact - and to work together to plan our daughter's upcoming birthday parties - both in mid-July. And I think I need to consult a lawyer to ask some basic questions about protecting my rights - especially as a parent.

And this isn't an "i'm not in love with you" and there's not one other man that we can write a no contact letter to. Its a pattern of very disturbing behavior centered around many other men, a possible internet/iPhone addiction, and lies, lies, lies.

I don't want a divorce, but I also don't want to be with the woman that my wife has become.

You say what is done is done - I ask you what exactly is done?

This is not the first time that either of us has said we've wanted a divorce in the last year. I believe she's said it twice and I think I've said it once. But this is the first time someone has "calmly" said it.

I don't feel as if I've really taken any major step here.

And yes - absolutely keep a Plan A attitude. Might actually be easier to do. If I can truly commit to letting her go, there will be no more need for me to ask her questions about where she's going and who she's with. And dealing with an "soon to be ex wife" who lies sounds a lot easier than dealing with a wife that lies.

I'm very confused by some of the comments I'm getting back here.

At - I would love to think that she had been reaching out to me, but she's kept all of this hidden fairly deeply; if it were a cry for help she would have been more open; and even then - I've been around, so I don't think a cry for help would be necessary.

MEM - you sound like I should treat this as another stage for possible reconciliation. Do you really think there is a chance that she'll come to me, lay all of her cards on the table, commit to the necessary changes, and then follow through? I'd say its a lot less than 50/50. To answer another question you asked, I think I could forgive the things that I think may have happened - including one ore more PAs - if she were to truly commit to the marriage going forward. I would never "forget" the things that she's done, but I would be willing to work with her if she would SHOW me a committment.

Like I said - getting very confused here.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

NG,
Sorry for my very unclear post. You have to proceed with the divorce using the assumption that marriage is dead / gone / over. Else you will lose your mind. Start focusing on you and your life. The planning for your childs birthday should be done via 1-2 emails and AT MOST a brief phone call. Keep contact to a BARE minimum - this will help you emotionally continue to detach over time. 

Don't sit around and hope that she will come to her senses and approach you with an unconditional offer to lay down her defenses and give you everything you have asked for.

Assume the odds of that are very low and don't think about it. 

I only raised it because in the back of her mind - for a LONG time now she has been asking herself "Why is he letting me treat him like this?" If you now proceed with a HARD timeline and a calm demeanor she will regain some respect for you which will help post divorce. She might also realize what is happening and really try to fix things but you need to decide if that is a sincere desire to reconcile or an even stronger desire to avoid having to get a job. 







nice777guy said:


> What would you suggest for me at this point?
> 
> I probably started Plan B too late and never properly executed Plan A. I think its too late to go back now. And the only thing I intend to push for the short term is for minimal contact - and to work together to plan our daughter's upcoming birthday parties - both in mid-July. And I think I need to consult a lawyer to ask some basic questions about protecting my rights - especially as a parent.
> 
> ...


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

MEM - gotcha. Kind of thought thats what you meant.

Thanks everyone. I think I'm done here in "Coping with Infidelity" and will begin posting in the Divorce forum.


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

You don't really want a divorce. You want her to wake up. Rattle her cage. If you are going to a new forom go to the "Considering Divorce" forum. I wouldn't be opposed to you filing as atactical measure. It is easy enough to do your self. The forms are simole and there is almost always someone at the courthouse to help. Go to the court website. You can probably complete the paperwork from there. You don't have to go through with it, but you told her you thought this was best. So file. She probably thinks you are bluffing. She will think differently when she gets served. I would keep the lawyers out of it for now.


----------



## Brewster 59 (Jun 19, 2010)

Well if your going to file which is probably a good idea for your protection because if she is being dishonest with money you are responsible for half of any debt she incurs. I would at least find out the laws in your state. Right now it sounds like she wants to party and let you foot the bill and take care of the kids.

If she is not working she will probably go after custody of the kids in order to get child support and alimoney cuz shes going to need money to live. 

Then again what do I know maybe serving her will make her come to her senses with the real question being do you really want to give her another chance.


----------



## jessi (Feb 11, 2009)

hi there nice777guy, 
I can see you are at the end but please take care of yourself whatever path you chose for yourself.....
I think your last chance is doing the break from your wife, she may or not wake up but I do think this is the best answer for you and your healing.......
I will pray that she does a complete change because I know you are hurting and that is what you truly want but I can understand how you can only do so much and then you have to call the facts the facts.......
It's time for you to open the doors of life and spend great quality with your children and keep an open mind about life and the new people you will meet......
I'm sorry you have chosen to leave us for another forum but you must do what you need to........
I wish you all the best and take care of yourself and your kids now......she can look after herself from now on......
(hugs)


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Not sure why I feel the need to share...but...

My wife's (mine too) good friend from out of town who stopped by recently to try to help us told me yesterday that my wife has reactivated her FB account. The friend posted something on her wall about "Sorry to see that this is the path you're choosing..." - which my wife promptly deleted. 

I don't see my wife's name, so she's "blocked" me or something. In passing I asked her if she was back on FB - and she lied again. WHY IS SHE STILL LYING TO ME ABOUT STUPID 2ND GRADE ****?!?!?!?!

Will the urge to grab her by the shoulders and try to shake some sense into her EVER go away? Anyone ever heard of an exorcism getting worked into a parenting agreement?


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

She is probably back to her old ways. However I can offer another explanation by way of my own experience. 
Two days afte I found out about my wife's affair I was so deep in my own fog I thought I would die a lonely old man. I went on the Google dating site and posted a profile. I just wanted some attention. I was so hurt and in such pain. My wife found out and I deleted it immediately.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm just amazed that the lies don't stop when you've both basically given up. Its like a bad, compulsive habit at this point. And to go to the trouble of "hiding" herself from me - she has the emotional maturity of a child...


----------



## iamnottheonlyone (May 9, 2010)

You are so right. Many of my friends have said my wife is acting like a spoiled teenager.


----------



## losinglove (Dec 8, 2009)

Hey nice,
If you want to see if her fb account is active you can set up a second fb account.

The continued lies is so she does not become the bad guy.


----------



## Feelingalone (Apr 22, 2009)

Nice,

losinglove is correct about "not becoming the bad guy". My stbx w still "lies" to me about stuff and it doesn't matter. It is as if she is scared of me in some ways. Plus your w knows she can push this button and you will react. Don't react and this will cease.


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

I've also wondered a lot if she wants me to file so that - even though she's done the most damage - she could say that it was ME that ended it.

When I told her the other night that I thought a divorce might be best, she started crying, and I actually asked her why she would be so upset to lose something she cares so little about.

Losing - thanks for the FB tip - but at this point I just need to let it go.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> I'm just amazed that the lies don't stop when you've both basically given up. Its like a bad, compulsive habit at this point. And to go to the trouble of "hiding" herself from me - she has the emotional maturity of a child...


 Have you told her this?


----------



## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Turnera - if reason and logic worked right now, I wouldn't be here. 

I keep thinking of AC's spouse accusing her of doctoring a video, or someone else (forget who) who found their spouse naked in bed with another man - but of course they said they weren't doing anything, just talking;

I'm still scratching my head at the following two things:
1) My wife became a habitual liar almost overnight; NEVER saw signs before this started a year ago
2) She's really, really bad at it; my wife is incredibly intelligent, but I guess its hard to keep your stories straight and consistent when you aren't telling the truth; must be exhausting for her everytime I ask a reasonable question;

I just wish I could understand what's actually going on in her head. Does she actually believe this is all justified somehow? Does she know its wrong, but not have the knowledge or strength to stop? Or maybe she knows exactly what she's doing, is having a pretty good time, and has no incentive to stop? I know a lot of people here tell me the answer is behind door #3, but I really don't think she is a happy person. I guess its probably a combination of all of the above...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I like the allusion to an alien inhabiting her body. It provides such a powerful drug that she doesn't want to get rid of it, but to get the drug, she has to let the alien function in place of her; so she's off in the background somewhere, watching, but unable to come forward and take back control. That's why it's so important to remove the drug (OM).


----------



## notreadytoquit (Jan 11, 2010)

NG,

Both 1 and 2 are the script work. Your spouse, mine and all other cheaters do it. But Turnera's analogy is really the best description.

My H just told me he has been invited to a BBQ tonight. Apparently networking. Yeah right he was also out last Friday night too. I told him calmly that I am not stupid I know what is going on. And as always his answers are the same: Ridiculous!

So the drug is still there and the only thing we can do is try to fight it so tomorrow if D day comes at least we will be able to say we did everything we could. But don't expect the lies to diminish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

turnera said:


> I like the allusion to an alien inhabiting her body. It provides such a powerful drug that she doesn't want to get rid of it, but to get the drug, she has to let the alien function in place of her; so she's off in the background somewhere, watching, but unable to come forward and take back control. That's why it's so important to remove the drug (OM).


As NG has pointed out, there isn't another man. There is a pattern of other men. She is actively on dating and social networking sites for most of her free time - as well as when she's with the family. She has been involved by my count, in at least 3 EA's - and it takes a serious leap of faith to not presume that one or more became physical affairs. But honestly, whether or not she slept with anyone is virtually immaterial at this point given the extent of her behavior.

Think about redrawing the battle lines.

I don't know what the current arrangement is. 
But here is what I did back in 08:
I canceled internet.
I removed her line from my Cellular account.
We separated our finances.
All of the utilities were put in her name.

My point is - Make her life separate. A life that she is singularly accountable for.
This is actually easier to do BEFORE you start the divorce process. Importantly, don't tell her taking action until you have already taken it.

Keep perspective:
I did these things, and they didn't make a lick of difference.
Here is the bottom line, my bottom line - what I discovered is that I miss my wife. But to use Turnera's analogy in another way, the woman she is now, is not the woman I want for a wife. We came to terms with the fact that although we both miss what we had, we can't get it back. In the now, I do not want to be with her and she does not want to be with me. And we've accepted it. There is no more 'work' to do or tactics to try. It's over. One of the toughest things for me to come to terms with, was acknowledging that from her perspective, life is more appealing and she is happier apart than together.

Don't choose someone that doesn't choose you. Let her go.


----------

