# Textbook Reality But I Want To Believe - Help!



## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

Hi All,

This is my first post - I need some advice outside of my friends and family - namely you. Thanks in advance.

I have been with my wife for 23 years married for 13. I am 56 she is 43. We have a 23 year old son (from my first marriage/already moved out) and a 12 year old son of ours. She is the love of my life and I am still very much in love with her, our marraige and our role as parents. Even though.....

I always thought we were soul-mates for life. Better or worse, etc. We have had on-going problems in our relationship. Looking back, I now can see that she has been gradually taking things off the table -various intimate acts, intimacy, kissing, cudling, holding hands, fantasy, adult connection, etc. I have been aware and up to two months ago she said it was her problem (weight, libido, our arguing and lack of communication). I can see know that this caused me great distress, pain, resentment and it manifested itself by me being angry, nitpicking, yelling, etc.

3 months ago, I wrote a letter that laid it all out. How I felt like a roomate, had no intimate connection, felt resentment, and asked her to seriously look at herself. She wrote back to me with a letter that was so to the point and correct that it blew me away. I immediatly started to think of how I could be a better man, husband, lover, friend, father and do not try!

She then went to her HS Reunion which was in a different city. I was not invited by her to attend. During her 5 day trip she called and told me about day one and mentioned the people and activity and mentioned an old fried I'll call UB that I never heard of before. Day two UB comes up again. Day 3, etc, etc. I have since found out that while there, one of her closest girlfriends held an "intervention" with this person (UB) in attendance to urge her to take action and leave her unhappy existance (I had no idea that she was even contemplating it). 

Upon her return, I was putting my "be a better man" plan into effect. Things seemed to be better, really nice sex session a few times that she initiated (wow). Then came the axe.

The Monday before Thanksgiving, she told me that she was leaving me and our marriage. I got the "I love you - but not in love with you" line. I got the "there is no other person" line. But she went on to trash our past by doubting if our love ever really existed, telling me she has wanted to leave me for 10 years! That she was not attracted to me at all. That it was all a sham. She said that she did not tell me to protect me and our son, and to not cause us pain. The problem is that the pain now is far worse than it would have been if she just told the truth.

My wife (has always been) is a wonderful person - caring, truthful, trustworthy, kind and loving. But in my gut I knew that someting was wrong with this story.

Tears flowed and I did the cliche things like ask "why are you doing this to us" and " I will change" and I love you so much". They were met with an uncaring attitude and voice that was not my wife. No remorse - no sorrow. She just stabbed away until I bled out!

The next Friday (day after Thanksgiving) she anounced she was going back to the city of her runion (her hometown) with our son for a number of days. She could not stand to be around me because of my reaction to this news and whatever she was feeling. I have since found out from my 12 year old that while there she was once again in the presence of UB and actually "went out shopping" with him for an hour or two, leaving my son at the home. I felt that this was a very real betrayal of our mariage and my gut was screaming that it was either an actual physical affair or the start of an emotional affair. They also held "a cleansing cemony" with all in attendance to remove the negative energy (I call it an exorsism). So I asked her to explain.

I was told that "her and UB are just old friends" / that he was going thru a bad marriage as well and they were supporting each other/ that I was being paranoid and suspicious. She again said that there was no affair of any kind. I asked if she has had any contact with him since the trips and she admitted tha tthere were around 5 calls/texts - some initiated by her to check to see how he was doing with his problems. I asked for the phone records so that I could verify and stop my suspicions. She refused and continues to refuse to let me see them. I repllyed the only reason she would refuse is because there are more calls than 5 and possibly more men on the list. She has since changed the password on the account and keeps her cellphone with her at every moment - even sleeps with it. I asked her to please stop all contact with this person out of respect of our marriage - and her own personal dignity. I am not stupid - but this is so not like her!

Secrecy is now the rule of thumb - I noticed no more personal email coming to her, minimized web sites when I approached. She agreed to counseling and agreed to a three month in-house seperation.

Two weeks into the seperation - she tells me that she has once again not been truthful and has been looking for a new place to move out to. She leaves next week - it has been living hell to be near the woman I love and not be able to talk to her, touch her, kiss her, make love to her. But she is so far away from that right now that it does not effect her. The things she says are so hurtful and emotionless that it it is mind boggling.

My gut tells me that she has been 95% truthful, but cannot or will not tell me about what really happenned at the reunion(or elsewhere) with UB or whomever. I was on the computer that she uses (it was our computer - but is now hers) and I found a "favorite" web site that was for a very sexy lingerie outfilt.

I asked her to please be honest with me, that no matter what happened I will be calm, and understanding - i just need the truth to be able to deal with this correctly for all invloved. She replyed that the lingerie was for nobody but her. She mentioned that while at the reunion and other times that she has been approached by men (she mentioned how flattered she was to be approcahed by a few college students at the bar celebration of the reunion). She also mentioned that although she "has never cheated on me whatsoever", that she is looking forward to whatever might happen "if/when we divorce. My gut and my few friends/family that know advise that this is all more lies - and that I am in denial that "she could ever do such a thing".

End of story - I said I want to save our marriage, I love you no matter what and I will not give up. But I needed honesty and trust to be able to move on to whatever the next steps are. I added that if she is going for therapy to justify the things she has done/doing/about to do or to make it better for "her new relationship(s)", then let's get the divorce going and stop the lies. She agreed to go to therapy with an open mind , but added that it would "take a miracle" for her to come back.

I am trying to stop with the I need you/love you, be man for all invloved and allow her the space and time she needs. But I am obsessed with knowing the truth - my mind is filling in the blanks with such hurtful thoughts and images that it is stopping my ability to cope and handle myself with pride and dignity.

Her leaving next week and taking my son half the time is the saddest thing I have ever lived thru. But we own a home and a business and I am going to see her every week. I do not think I could bear to see her with another man - but how can i leave without my son?

Sorry it was so long - please tell me what you think (I suspect I know what will be coming).

Thanks again.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

She seems determined to leave. Telling her not to go or pleading with her to stay and work things out will not be met with a favorable reaction. In reality, she will see this as pressure. If you just let her go on ahead, she will likely realize her own mistakes and come back to you herself. Fight to share time with your child, though. She is not in a frame of mind which seems forthcoming, truthful, or even caring and you have to disconnect from her so that she can come to her own realizations and you can decide what to do, then. Look up what people call the 180 or the Plan B. I know that what you're feeling right now hurts like hell and it's not going to change anytime soon, but forcing the issue or trying to persuade her to stay will probably have the exact opposite effect.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Plain and simple: she's having an affair. 

And she's taking steps to move on.

Start by protecting/securing your finances. No joint bank accounts, credit cards, debts, etc.

Change your will; make sure it's done by a lawyer to avoid unintended results.

Read up on the 180, Let them go.


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## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the advice - I am hoping that more of your thoughts come my way today.

I have read up on the 180 and I have already began the process of letting go.

I still believe I deserve the truth - but what we deserve and what we get are two different subjects.

She leaves next week - we talk to our son and return to MC soon.

I must de-stress and get my head together - all of you have already helped me on that path.

Please reach out if you are able.

Thanks again,

RFW


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## jimmmy (Dec 30, 2011)

MAN UP there are millions of people out there more unfortunate than you. I know it's hard (see my story) but you have to do it, she'll see you in another way if you show her the NEW you, she may even come back if she falls on her A**


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## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

Naive or not - I do not want her to fall on her a**! 

My hope is that she comes to the realization that we both are at fault, we both can change and we can make each other and our son happy with effort and time.

In the meantime I iwll be true to myself - love, honesty, humility and gentleness are my new keywords.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

No one is perfect. People have faults and it takes two people to mess up a marriage because it takes two people to be in one. However, when one person leaves the marriage and has an affair, that's not just a mess, that's something else altogether. What's she's doing with the high school buddy is leaving the marriage. The only way she will come to a realization of what matters is actually falling on her you know what. Let her make the mistakes she seems determined to make. You can't stop it. Let her go. Maybe she will come back and maybe she won't, but pleading and begging will make you seem like a less desirable option for her. Improve yourself and your life. Spend time with your son. Just tune her out of your head as much as you can. Easier said than done. I've been a wreck for the past four months myself since separation, but....I found that the 180 and the Let Them Go thing is the best way to deal with this situation, as have so many others. 

Hang in there. This whole thing sucks and it's going to for a while, but try and find some joy when and where you can.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If you don't let her fall on her @ss how will she feel the reality of it all. If she never feels the cold hard reality hitting her like a ton of bricks well then she has your number and except the fact that you are now in a one sided open marriage that your wife truely enjoys and you my friend continue to suffer though it.......Why?


Wait I've been there so I understand the why...it just a matter of time when you just let her go. Hang in there...it will take a few month and you will find your balls.

In my case it took a few years but you seem alot brighter.


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## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

OK - I am like a split personality at this point!

I understand that being nice is not going to get her to change her mind. It also is very clear that it might even be working against me. But pretending to be uncaring and unloving in the face of her leaving seems like a rejection of who I am - my core values.

I love her - I want our marriage and our family to make it thru this very ugly time - but not if I need to play mind games and mental manipulation to achieve it.

She signed her one-year lease yesterday and is leaving on Friday. She is busy packing her things and seems so damn happy to be doing so that it makes me sick. It is like a knife in my heart as I see her carry boxes out.

During a converstation yesterday that started edging towards confrontation - I left and reappered saying that all future talks need to be positive, caring and respectful for her, me, us and our son Curtis. I said I was sorry that my share of problems in the past led to this, but I can not change that - but i can change tomorrow. She offered that she was also sorry for lying to me about her lack of love for so many years, for lying and leading me on. But no talk of regret about the toxic friends she has allowed to stomp on our lives (while they remain happy and married), the betrayal of talking to other men (at least the one I know of) and for being so sneaky and secretive. And although I no longer broach the subject - my gut says there is still something more...... (does it really matter at this point)

By the way, my son who is 12 is well aware that something is up. He is the most amazing boy and I want to minimize the pain for him as well as myself. We will be sharing time with him and will continue to see our MC. WE plan on having the "talk" with him on Thursday night - so amazingly sad.

I go up - I go down - what a bad and nasty ride.

I intend on absolutely minimizing my contact with her when she leaves - phone calls are out. No "visits". Bare essentials only (she wants this more than me - but I see the benefit). I will sill see her once a week (MC recommends family time) and at MC - but at this point it is a plan that I know I want to employ - but will take all my reserve.

This is going to be a weekend alone to remember - I never would have believed I could hurt so bad. I have lost a child and had a prior divorce. Made and lost lots of money. Gone thru a depression period and have had close friends prove to be uncaring - but this is a whole new level of pain.

Pure and simple - there are many women out there. I am sure that somewhere there is someone that will inspire me and love me despite my shortcomings. But I do not want them - I love my wife/family. Anything less will be less. But I will not give up. I will not become a stranger to myself in order to get her back. 

My plan is to take the 180. Let Her Leave, advice of the few friends I have entrusted , this forum and allow her to live her speration plan the way she wants/needs to. I will focus on myself and Curtis and get out of her way both emotionaly and physically. How this will help (?) - I do not know. But her own words where "I am taking it one day at a time since the future is unkown".

To me "unkown future" equals a chance - not a divorce today. I have faith in love, the Lord and my son and together we will make it thru this dark abyss. But most of all - I still beleive with all my heart that somewhere in this new "woman" who I do not even recognize is my wife. The woman who was/is everything to me.

Sappy - overoptimistic - stupid - I stand accused.

But it is real and from heart. The Lord is telling me this is the way to go.

Please continue to connect with me - I think it is so important for me to hear what you think - no matter if you agree or not.

Thanks so much for your time.


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## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

Hi All,

Posted the "infidelity" side of the story in that section and got many resposnes. Please check it out if you get the chance.

But I feel that the subject is symtom (a toxic on indeed" of the real problem.

I understand the 180 and miltant attitude that most are suggestion - but if I am to be a better man/have MC work/have a chance to R - sholdn't that all come down the road.

WE tell our son tomorrw - she is out of the house on Friday. My world is collapsing. Trying to be strong in the middle of the worst thing that has ever happened to me in 56 years.

I apprecitate any words you send my way.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

My ex wife cheated on me, got found out by me, and then proceeded to divorce me as soon as she possibly could.
That way, she avoids the shame, and can lamely attribute any measly glitter from her affair as justification for her decision.
You dont hold all the cards you think you do, so PREPARE.


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## Tullytara (Dec 26, 2011)

Hun im sorry to read this, from my view you are better off with out her, she has done nothing but hurt you, I hope you stick to your pland and that it works for u but becareful that she doesnt turn it against you, My boys are younger then yours and to be fair they take it easier then we adults do because they dont realise what the whole situation means, just dont get causght up in the ins and outs of who did what to who, ill keep a look out for future posts good luck and stay strong.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

RFW said:


> I understand that being nice is not going to get her to change her mind. It also is very clear that it might even be working against me. But pretending to be uncaring and unloving in the face of her leaving seems like a rejection of who I am - my core values.


It's not a rejection of who you are. It's an acceptance of reality. If, by nature, you enjoy banging your head against a wall, should you do that in order to be true to yourself? Or should you recognize that it is harmful and you should suppress your instinct.



RFW said:


> I love her - I want our marriage and our family to make it thru this very ugly time - but not if I need to play mind games and mental manipulation to achieve it.


Allowing your wife to have what she is asking for is not being manipulative. It's being nice. If your wife gets out into the big, bad world and finds that her every fantasy isn't being realized, so she comes back to you, that's not your fault. You haven't manipulated her. Reality did.



RFW said:


> She signed her one-year lease yesterday and is leaving on Friday. She is busy packing her things and seems so damn happy to be doing so that it makes me sick. It is like a knife in my heart as I see her carry boxes out.


You should be out. Take your son and go to the park. Minimize your contact with your wife for the good of everyone.

Good luck.


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## RFW (Dec 29, 2011)

Thanks for the input. Very hard week. Her moving out process is still coninuing.

I feels like the wound is opened again every day.

Part of me wierdly is happy to see her - even if she is here taking her things to leave (very confusing). The other needs it to ebd now - it should be over today.

But because of our child - business - I iwll be seeing her most every week.

Much has come to the surface - her own admittance of dishonesty, shopping, hording problems - with her mentioning them as signs of depression. She is still very much not "herself" - but she has "softend a few times during this very painful week.

Although I have determined that the essence of 180 and Plan A/B are the best route to take - I have relapsed in the past few days - because she has opened up someehat to me.

At this point my first goal was to stop the EA/and mental abuse she has been dishing out by letting her go with as little resistance as i can manage (very hard).. I think it has been achieved - but she has ied about so much for so long - can I really be sure?

My next goal is to get her to go to MC with an open mind - rather than a firm decision of divorce - seems to be getting there - but there is still resisitance.

Today - I stand as a man - father - friend that is iin a time of self-awareness, realization of the years of dishonesty and serecy I have been served by the woman I have loved unconditionaly and whose futre graetly dempend on my own future actions and interactions with my wife - before it is to late.

I am so sad that this has happned to my son(s) and both of us - but it serves only as a gateway to the dark side - and I am not going to go in that direction. I must follow the light.

I appreciate your time.


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