# Hi Gang. I'm a new poster.



## rugswept

Hi gang, I'm rugswept. From my name, you already know how I survived the ravages of an A by a WS. 

Long ago, I got through an LTA by WW. I told no one about it and it remained completely secret to this day. 
I have only discussed it in anonymous forums and then with not much detail. 

She never really wanted to discuss it at all and the most I got is about how long it lasted (which I had backtracked and already knew). 

I was in denial THE WHOLE TIME during the A. After many red flags, I just kept saying no, this can't be happening. 
No, it's not, no way. I tried to bring up my suspicions a few times, indirectly, and she just sat there and smiled, with a look like I have no idea what you're talking about. Her look of innocence caused me to back off and I just couldn't ask it directly. 

Needless to say, yes, it was about 2 yrs and it was really bad. I could just tell that everything I had suspected was at least as bad as I thought, or worse. When I finally accepted it had happened, I converted the denials into the obvious: a really bad stream of sex acts, denials, bad excuses and deceit. 

I suffered in silence, and went through the emotional roller coaster, the mind movies, the self doubt, the grief, the depression, the mistrust, the numbness. She was of no help. I asked her one or two things about it and she then said, is this going to just keep coming back? I remained silent, enduring the misery we all know and have lived. 

It was decades ago. It was illuminating when I was on major recovery sites much much later and replayed my history mentally and was stunned at how enlightened and wise to the cheaters that the posters were. For the first time I found myself in a community where at least I could read and add and understand what happened to me. 

The truism is this: we ALL go through almost exactly the same behavioral response. It varies in intensity and the kinds of recalls and anxieties varies. The other thing is: all cheaters are ALL the same. Given they cheat, lying and deceit are natural partners of the betrayal. They can just deflect, lie and even plant fake evidence to cover their tracks, all with a smile and often with a lovey dovey attitude. 

Personally I had started to really watch closely and became convinced I was becoming something between paranoid or a pervert for thinking these things. I'd close in on something and then, poof, another dead end. That went on for months and months and months, over and over. 

After the real DDay, we moved on from the A and went on to a successful marriage that had all the good parts we'd all want in life. Obviously, I never really got over it and just live with it. My advice: find out everything, up front in great detail. For then, at least, you know what you're dealing with. 

My intent is to observe and comment. If I learned one thing, it's that we can all learn so much from each other. And we all the share the common bond of the intense pain and hurt that never completely vanishes. We know the pain and hurt, and anyone who has not been betrayed has NO idea how great the pain. For most of us it is the most intense emotional challenge we will ever have to endure. The grief of the normal death of an elderly parent was no comparison with the grief, pain and hurt of the A. Perhaps only the death of a child is greater. 

Oh well. I guess I'm here to say hi.


----------



## Marc878

IN essence you became a martyr for your marriage.

That usually causes heartburn long term.


----------



## ConanHub

Ugh. Don't know why you put up with it personally but welcome aboard!


----------



## arbitrator

*Welcome to TAM, @rugswept ~ you'll find that it's a simply great place for advise and answers!*


----------



## snerg

rugswept said:


> After the real DDay, *we moved on from the A and went on to a successful marriage We Moved on from the A and kept up the outward appearance of a successful marriage that had all the good parts we'd all want in life*. Obviously, I never really got over it and just live with it. My advice: find out everything, up front in great detail. For then, at least, you know what you're dealing with.
> .


I fixed this for you.


----------



## Lostinthought61

It's never to late to file for divorce and move on with your life and integrity.


----------



## Spicy

Welcome to TAM. You will be a nice asset to those that come here to cope with infidelity.


----------



## rugswept

Thanks for the replies. 
I really do think an M should be saved if it can be saved. I routinely see those who have 10-20+ years invested, children, etc., many emotional events. I'm just against throwing it all away. 

It comes down to this: all people ffff up, some in really big ways. Is that a pattern or is it a temporal estrangement? 
Serial cheetahs (they run fast) are a lost cause. A distressed relationship that leads to an A can be quite different. 

All marriages have good parts and bad parts. It's unfortunate to throw out the whole thing, the familial relationships, the friends to just start over and go it alone. For me breaking it all up was something I just didn't want to do. I felt there was some degree of hope and a lot that could be saved. 

And, yes, I did it completely the wrong way. All rugsweeping, completely. I'm not into blame shifting, however. 
She did it, not me. I can see where I was a facilitator. Due to extreme professional commitments and then using my limited personal time on MY things instead of OUR things, she became disillusioned, felt abandoned and "made herself noticed". It went from there. 

Oh well. It was all a long long time ago and the final result was quite good, painful as it was. 
Thanks Again.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

rugswept said:


> After the real DDay, we moved on from the A and went on to a successful marriage that had all the good parts we'd all want in life. Obviously, I never really got over it and just live with it.


 I can't in good conscience congratulate you on what you feel is a "success" story. 

Sadly, "we" didn't move on to a _successful_ marriage, as you claim. Sadly, *you* just furiously and continuously did the "Pick Me Dance" while knowing she was screwing around on you, and you chose to become a welcome mat for her, clinging to her for dear life no matter _how_ badly she treated you. You never stood up for yourself and you chose to be disrespected by her day after day after day after day. There's nothing even remotely successful about that at all.

And when she was all done having her fun and treating you with exactly *ZERO* respect, she 'chose' you. You lucky, lucky man. Was she financially dependent on you? Is that why you won this prize back when she was done having her affair? This is known as eating the proverbial **** sandwich. She served you up a huge one and you chose to eat it, every last bite.



> The other thing is: all cheaters are ALL the same. Given they cheat, lying and deceit are natural partners of the betrayal. They can just deflect, lie and even plant fake evidence to cover their tracks, all with a smile and often with a lovey dovey attitude.


And *this* is exactly why I'm floored that you actually speak about your wife as though she did all her cheating 'decades ago' and then magically turned into a Saint for the last 20 or 30 years. It's especially hard to believe since she's completely remorseless, and everything you've put in your post makes it painfully clear just *how* remorseless she really is. The remorseless ones usually always cheat again because they don't give a rat's ass about anyone else's pain. And as you said, they're masterful liars and actors, so why on earth you trust this woman is a mystery for the ages.

Sadly, I think you've been deluding yourself for years, because you want SO badly to hang onto her at all costs, no matter what she's done to you. I also think you self-delude because you need to find a way to be OK with having compromised your values, dignity and self-respect so severely by staying with someone like her. :frown2:


----------



## rugswept

Some posters on this thread should read their own posts from across various threads. 
It appears many follow into a near fixed response. 
Assumptions are made to fit a narrow conversation and then the case is dissected with nearly always the same kind of outcome. 
It probably indicates how they were seriously scarred from dealing with infidelity. 

If your advice is always the same or produced with narrow tunnel vision whether it applies or not, it ceases to be useful. 
And, no, I am not King ****. I am, however, forgiving in spite of being wronged.


----------



## StillSearching

rugswept said:


> Some posters on this thread should read their own posts from across various threads.
> It appears many follow into a near fixed response.
> Assumptions are made to fit a narrow conversation and then the case is dissected with nearly always the same kind of outcome.
> It probably indicates how they were *seriously scarred from dealing with infidelity*.
> 
> If your advice is always the same or produced with narrow tunnel vision whether it applies or not, it ceases to be useful.
> And, no, I am not King ****. I am, however, forgiving in spite of being wronged.


BTW, everyone is...you too.
Well, if you have read many threads around here you'd see you are rug sweeping..
"we moved on from the A "...........come on brother.
Can move on from what you don't know the truth about.
A wayward wife must be filed on.


----------



## snerg

rugswept said:


> Some posters on this thread should read their own posts from across various threads.
> It appears many follow into a near fixed response.
> Assumptions are made to fit a narrow conversation and then the case is dissected with nearly always the same kind of outcome.
> It probably indicates how they were seriously scarred from dealing with infidelity.
> 
> If your advice is always the same or produced with narrow tunnel vision whether it applies or not, it ceases to be useful.
> And, no, I am not King ****. I am, however, forgiving in spite of being wronged.


occam's razor - The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

When you present information that follows a fairly standard path, people will make fairly simple assumptions.

Not trying minimize what has/is happening to you., because you already have been served up a heaping plate of suck.

You need to realize that everybody does want to help.
Sometimes people aren't the best in conveying that.
Sometimes the BS won't acknowledge that they are in trouble and they need a "2x4" hit to make them actually look at their situation.

Read everything - take what helps. I wouldn't recommend discard the one's you don't like. I would say put them on the back burner. Even the one's you don't agree with may have value later in you path to recovery.

When my friend caught his wife cheating, he was crushed.
He wanted to know why she had the affair.
I told him "BECAUSE".
He didn't like that answer and was angry with me for a long time. We didn't talk for over a year he was so angry with my callousness..
When he finally started to heal, he contacted me and thanked me for helping.
He wasn't ready to hear or deal with "BECAUSE".
Once he got to a stage in healing where he could accept that answer, almost all his questions were answered and he could complete the next stages of healing.


----------



## Stormguy2018

Seems like your WW was never truly remorseful. I don't see how you could've "moved on" without that.


----------



## calathea

I’m so happy you chose to work on your marriage. When someone has an affair, there’s so much more that goes into it. An affair is a coping mechanism for some because it’s an escape from reality and troubles in your marriage. Some people cope by drinking, overeating, staying glued to work, becoming severely depressed, etc... Does it justify her behavior? No. But it does not make your wife a bad person like some of the comments I’ve read. She made a decision that no one else can understand but her and now, hopefully you. It was her way of coping with whatever was failing in your marriage at the time. Kudos to both of you for communications and sticking by each other’s side after enduring such pain. 

I despise the saying, “once a cheater, always a cheater.” It’s simply not true. You two can show trust and understanding with one another that will help her overcome. I think your forgiveness of her indiscretions shows strength within you. It shows a deeper understanding of human experience. You’re pain is severe and she knows it. 

I’m in my mid 30’s. When I was 2 years old, my mother had an affair. She had three children all under the age of 6. She was coping with not being seen by my father and adjusting to this new life of motherhood that was hard with our minimal income and resources. Someone gave her an escape from her severe depression. She confessed her infidelity to my father and instead of giving up on their marriage, they both were able to reflect on their many short comings. They just celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary. Their marriage was deepened by their communication and trust within each other. 

Anyway, please trust your path. Continue to do the work with your wife to keep your marriage moving forward and heal your pain. Know that no one else can fully understand you and your wife’s bond and experience.


----------



## sokillme

The first thing you are going to need to do to start feeling better is to be honest with yourself. Then you need to be honest with your wife. Does she know this is how you feel? You say you have a good marriage but how good can it be if you have this terrible hurt but you only post about it on message boards, but can't talk about it with even your own wife? Are you that unsure of her that you can discuss it? That doesn't sound like a good marriage at all.

There is a reason why you are posting. I suspect much of your suffering is because you have allowed your wife and the need for your marriage, to take away your agency, so in essence you are trapped. Your marriage is a prison you have put yourself in, it may be a nice one but it is one all the same. I suspect that you have been forced to go against your core principles to stay so that causes you great pain.

Beside that it's very unwise to assume that you have any idea if she is cheating now or how much she cheated in the past. By your own admission you have no idea. You haven't even confronted her about it. Again this is not a good marriage. You have NO idea who this person is you are married to. Do you even know who it was? If not how do you know he isn't still in your or her social circle? 

I'm sorry but I have to call out you folks who come on here, have been treated terribly cruelly by your spouses, sound like you have not even gotten to the bottom of it or an apology and then tell us how great your marriage is now? You are in very deep denial. One of the basic pillars of any relationship is truth. You have none of that with your wife. But you know all this, you named yourself rugswept. The question is why do you settle for so little?

If she hit you in the head with a baseball bat and put you in the hospital, would it be a good idea never to talk about how and why? Would you think that is a healthy relationship or marriage? Why is it any different? 

Sorry to be so harsh but you are on here for a reason. Maybe you just never had the courage to do this, but if this is the case you are going to continue to be unhappy Maybe this is were to start, what are you afraid of? Are you sure you should be? This women pledged you her life, and you have devoted yours to her, and she has sat next to you for years while you continue to feel the pain that she caused you and has done nothing. You deserve better, everyone does. Alone would be better.


----------



## sokillme

calathea said:


> I’m in my mid 30’s. When I was 2 years old, my mother had an affair. She had three children all under the age of 6. She was coping with not being seen by my father and adjusting to this new life of motherhood that was hard with our minimal income and resources. Someone gave her an escape from her severe depression. She confessed her infidelity to my father and instead of giving up on their marriage, they both were able to reflect on their many short comings. They just celebrated their 40th wedding anniversary. Their marriage was deepened by their communication and trust within each other.


That story is nothing like this one. Sounds like they have not even talked about her affair.


----------



## pastasauce79

I'd like for you Rugswept, to tell here how you and your wife moved on. What did you and your wife do to have a successful marriage after the affair?

My parents went through something similar, in their case my dad had the affair. It happened when I was 8 or 9 years old. The whole family and his job found out but everyone kind of rugswept the whole thing. Maybe it was because it happened in another country where marital culture is different? I really don't know. Anyway, my parents were about to divorce. My father moved out for about a month and they went to religious marital counseling that didn't do anything to fix their issues.

They got back together, but I believe it was only because my dad felt very guilty about the impact of a divorce on us, his kids. 

People say staying for the kids sake is not enough, but for me it was the best decision he could have made. 

The affair was 30 years ago. My parents have been married 46 years and have been empty nesters for about 4 years. Their dynamics are hard to understand but that's how they've been together for so long.

My dad got a cancer diagnosis 3 years ago and that was like a death sentence for him. The day he got the diagnosis he apologized to my mom for everything bad he's done (my mom thinks he meant the affair.) My mom told him that she forgave him a long time ago and he should focus on his treatment. No resentment, no questions asked, nothing. She sincerely forgave him a long time ago.

I thank my parents for staying together. Apart from that bump, we had a pretty good family life. Divorce could have taken that opportunity from us. Divorce could have been devastating and life changing (for the worse) for us.

It seemed that my dad learned from his mistake. Even though he never talked about it, he worked hard for the whole family. I believe he understood the grass wasn't greener on the other side and he's actually pretty good at giving marital advice.

Every marriage is different, so I think every case should be treated differently. I feel pain for the betrayed but it's good to read about success after an affair. Tell us how you did it! It could help others navigating the path of reconciliation.


----------



## TAMAT

Rugswept,

You wrote, "She never really wanted to discuss it at all and the most I got is about how long it lasted"

Did you at least talk with the OM to get his side of the story?

Expose the OM to his spouse, SO, family etc?

The fact that you are still posting kinda shows you have not recovered or forgiven, I don't know how you could forgive something which is secret. This is true for myself as well.


----------



## rugswept

Thanks for the great replies. I just dropped in and saw the most recent posts. I can only reply tmo, at best. I have minutes before guests arrived. I will fill in some of the blanks at that time. 

Short response: yes, it was ALL swept under the rug and my xWW just wouldn't and couldn't discuss it. it was one of those, well, it happened and that's it. she's really a lovely person, quite gullible, and just drifted off because i paid no attention to her. 

it was all well in the past (long, long ago). i'm on these forums for it is still an incredible deep inner pain. 

I'll be back... gotta go. Thanks again. 

P.S.: one of the big reasons I'm here: to tell the message, there is life after death.


----------



## SongoftheSouth

rugswept said:


> Thanks for the great replies. I just dropped in and saw the most recent posts. I can only reply tmo, at best. I have minutes before guests arrived. I will fill in some of the blanks at that time.
> 
> Short response: yes, it was ALL swept under the rug and my xWW just wouldn't and couldn't discuss it. it was one of those, well, it happened and that's it. she's really a lovely person, quite gullible, and just drifted off because i paid no attention to her.
> 
> it was all well in the past (long, long ago). i'm on these forums for it is still an incredible deep inner pain.
> 
> I'll be back... gotta go. Thanks again.
> 
> P.S.: one of the big reasons I'm here: to tell the message, there is life after death.


I guess I am confused. You write xWW as if you divorced her (as in X wayward wife) or think for some reason she is no longer cheating on you but are still married and all is good. Sorry if Im dense but its Friday night and Ive been drinking again.


----------



## TAMAT

Rugswept,

Do you even know basic details like who the OM was, or do you just have an email address?

Was sex ever the same after her affair or was something lost?


----------



## Marc878

rugswept said:


> Some posters on this thread should read their own posts from across various threads.
> It appears many follow into a near fixed response.
> Assumptions are made to fit a narrow conversation and then the case is dissected with nearly always the same kind of outcome.
> 
> If you've been thru or seen a lot of infidelity they for the most part follow the same pattern/script so that's why. Most betrayed think their issue is unique but it's usually not. Most are pretty typical
> 
> It probably indicates how they were seriously scarred from dealing with infidelity.
> 
> Probably so.
> 
> If your advice is always the same or produced with narrow tunnel vision whether it applies or not, it ceases to be useful.


Like I said most cheating is typical and will follow the same line. Therefore the advice does the same.

The only difference I see is if the wayward truly wants to work on the marriage.
The betrayed spouses who come here mostly just want them back with no thought to what that means long term


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

rugswept said:


> Short response: yes, it was ALL swept under the rug and my xWW just wouldn't and couldn't discuss it.


Why do you continually make excuses for her unacceptable behavior? So, she could LIE to your face again and again and again and again. She could betray you over and over and over and over and over and over. She could SEE the pain you were in and* remorseless, selfish cheater that she was*, she STILL continued having her fun on the side knowing what it was doing to you. Yeah, she's a real catch, OP. :scratchhead:

It sure seems to me she had NO problem doing something when when it benefited her, yet the innocent little hot-house flower just didn't have it in her to discuss the affair with you? _*Seriously????*_ And then you go on to make even* more *ridiculous excuses to justify her affair, because the poor 'gullible, lovely person' chose to screw around when you weren't paying enough attention to her. I can only assume you needed to find a way to accept the unacceptable from her so those ridiculous and feeble excuses you've made for her are some of the lies you've told yourself over the *years*.I mean, what the hell, does she lay golden eggs or something? I can't figure out why anyone would sell their own dignity right down the river *just* to cling like grim death to someone this low. I just can't.

Look, I understand that you're completely ok with deluding yourself in order to stay with this woman all these years and still be able to like the man you see in the mirror every morning.

But I think you want to *encourage* other betrayed husbands who post here to take this same demeaning approach to a supposed "reconciliation" - that they should swallow their pride, become a welcome mat for their cheating wives, and drop any expectations they ever had of being treated with respect or common decency. They shouldn't question their wive's motives for why they cheated, they should make up excuse after excuse for her **** behavior, and they should be grateful that they've managed to hold onto their 'prize' and that she didin't leave him for her affair partner. Woo hoo! And their 'reward' for having stripped themselves of every last shred of self respect they ever had, will be that they can tell everyone years later what a 'success' their marriage has been and that that there's light after the darkness.

OP, you're the perfect example of what betrayed spouses should NOT do when they get cheated on. :frown2:


----------



## sokillme

rugswept said:


> P.S.: one of the big reasons I'm here: to tell the message, there is life after death.


But if you rugsweep it's a hell of a painful one as you also unintentionally point out. 

By the way you also fall into another pattern that people especially men fall into when they R. Your wife was just too innocent and gullible to know she was having a LTA. Hey, whatever allows you to rationalize and not face your pain head on. 

It's sad that you come on here having accepted SO little but selling it to us like it's SO much. 

You sir are never going to be happy, because you are fundamentally dishonest with yourself.

Good marriages take honesty and courage. Good lives do. 

Sounds like you don't even know who the guy was, so how do you know it's not the guest you were entertaining?


----------



## sokillme

Marc878 said:


> Like I said most cheating is typical and will follow the same line. Therefore the advice does the same.
> 
> The only difference I see is if the wayward truly wants to work on the marriage.
> The betrayed spouses who come here mostly just want them back with no thought to what that means long term


Most want it to go back like it never happened, they don't realize that that is impossible and that is not what R is.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Stormguy2018 said:


> Seems like your WW was never truly remorseful. I don't see how you could've "moved on" without that.


 And you would be *correct. *I also think it's the epitome of naivete to believe this woman suddenly became Sister Teresa after she was done having her affair. She has ZERO remorse. I wouldn't trust her as far as he could throw her.

But the OP would much rather continue to self-delude even though many EXCELLENT points have been made. I think it's just much easier to deflect the truth of his situation by shooting the messenger and claiming they all have an agenda. 

Sadly, the OP seems to have his OWN extremely unhealthy agenda that he seems to be pushing, and it's everything one should *NOT* do when cheated on.


----------



## rugswept

I'm accepting the criticism of the way I dealt with it. It was decades ago, even before the internet. 
I am not here trying to push my approach. It was clearly the wrong way to deal with this. I didn't confide in ANYONE at the time and certainly had no idea that my response was the usual story. 

I only told a brief part the story. There were two cheating incidences. 

The early cheat: 
We knew each other in HS and started going out just after graduation (same class). 
Yes, early on, she stabbed me in the back by cheating with my brother about two years in. It was horrible and played a big part in me dropping out of engineering school at that time. I was just so wrecked. I dealt with it in silence. 
The following year I returned to engineering school (extremely challenging program), eventually graduated with very high honors. 
We were together throughout this period and went through some thick and thin. 

About 4 years into my professional career, I was insanely committed to my professional work and had little time for anything. Some of the little time I had left, I spent on me, not us. That's when she went the route she did. 

All the warning signs were there: going to the gym (when she never had), dressing in leotards in a small outfit, walking to the gym... then she got noticed and it started. A few months in, skipping the details, I strongly felt something had to have happened and lived in denial. She never had a clue I strongly suspected. It went on for two years with incidental evidence, here and there. 

About two years after it was over (and she had become moody and unpleasant - due to internal conflict?)... we got into a near marriage ending fight and she was ready to walk out, as in she was at the door. The whole stream of evidence flashed through my mind, and finally, with feelings of denial gone I no longer thought it any other way than obviously she had done what she had done. Probability 99.99%. In retrospect the details of evidence were in some cases two by fours, the only thing missing was writing out the hookups as they happened, explaining it to me. I was so blind to things, if I spelled them out, would getting responses like "Oh, My". 

At the end of that fight, I outright accused her, got the immediate denial of course. I then said: are you going to live that lie for the rest of your life. Then, lowering her eyes, she admitted to the thing. She didn't leave and I decided to live with it. The wreckage for me personally was intense. In many ways I never got over it. 

I never found out who it was. She wouldn't say and just said he was no longer around. She wouldn't talk about any of it. She's a good person with some character flaws as we all have character flaws. One of her things is she just can't own her own sh**. She cannot accept outright criticism. I could only ask her a few general questions ONCE. She would give no details. 

At the personal level, I felt our sex life, at least for a while, wasn't like it was. I viewed her as damaged goods and it took a long time for me to adjust to all that. Eventually we improved on our intimate relationship. 

Yes, I did it all the wrong way. Completely. I loved the woman, and she had thought in my excesses of work that I didn't. I suppose she needs attention. The early incident with my brother (not easy to take) also followed the basic I was in a tough factory working condition and let her drift (this happened in less than 2 months). 

In between the first and second incident, there was not a single hint of infidelity. Since the second incidence, there has not been even a single hint of infidelity. No incidental evidence of anything. Anything suspicious? ... nothing. 
When the A was going on there were so many signs along the road. Any of which should have triggered questions by me. 

My mother went wayward, and actually had an AP child, while living with us that my parents kept hidden from us. This child, my half brother, tracked me down 50 years later. NONE of us even knew about him, that he was even born. 

My father had a horrible time with my mother (they did divorce a few years after the AP child), and he was forgiving and tried to work things through with her, even after everything had happened. Maybe that's the early example I had of suffering in silence with a horrible situation with a wayward wife. Much later I surmised that my mother had become, I believe, a serial cheater. I had indirect evidence along the way from people I had met. 

I use the term xWW since my W stopped the bad behavior. We're still M. 

I did it all wrong, completely. Yes, I take all of this to the grave and will continue to suffer in silence. We have to make sacrifices in life and we have crosses to bear. This is mine. It would lead to untold strife if I did anything about it now. It was just so long ago.
It would probably end the M. 

I recommend the following to anyone: make sure you find out everything, ASAP, that you might ever want to know. If they could inflict pain like this on us, they should endure the pain and embarrassment of admitting what they had done. At least that. 

Epilogue: I say we have had a successful M since, for my wife's disposition improved immensely after DDay. Apparently she was greatly conflicted because of what she had done. It accounts to why she had become so moody and nasty. 
A few years after DDay we had a son who is becoming a successful individual. My W gets extremely high marks on what she was like as a mom. We had a joyful and fulfilling life together as parents with a young child. In every way I could ever have hoped for. 

Oh well. We all make mistakes and sometimes we just have to endure the pain. Had I pushed full disclosure, I can just about guarantee it would have ended the M.


----------



## ConanHub

Dude. I'm going to advocate for the exact opposite of your path.

Even your path today. I'm not even getting where you are coming from.

She screws your very own brother?

She then goes out and screws some guy for around two years both times while you're working your ass off?

She refuses to talk about it?

She most certainly is NOT a good person!

You are maybe happy with a pretty vile creature and kudos to you for recognizing that you can be happy with this travesty of a wife but I will most definitely be advising anyone wed to what you apparently are to remedy the situation as soon as possible.

To each their own but neither of you strike me as anywhere near healthy.


----------



## NobodySpecial

snerg said:


> I fixed this for you.


I think the poster can speak for themselves.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> She most certainly is NOT a good person!



So you are saying, in a nutshell, that people can't ever change? Cheaters especially? At all. Ever.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

rugswept said:


> Yes, early on, she stabbed me in the back by cheating with my brother about two years in. It was horrible and played a big part in me dropping out of engineering school at that time. I was just so wrecked. I dealt with it in silence.


You made excuses for her last affair that she's a lovely person but she's gullible and lost her direction and just kind of 'veered off' into an affair but it was really *your* fault for not paying more attention to her. 

But what excuse can you possibly come up with for *this* heinous act of betrayal with your brother? Were you not "paying enough attention to this lovely person" and she once again veered off course and in her innocence, ended up screwing around with your brother? 

I honestly think your biggest problem is your *refusal* to take her off the very UNDESERVED pedestal you insist on keeping this woman up on. She's not deserving.



> So you are saying, in a nutshell, that people can't ever change? Cheaters especially? At all. Ever.


THIS cheater? You have a better chance of shaking hands with Jesus.

To this *DAY* the unremorseful, selfish, self-entitled cheating liar *still *refuses to tell the OP who her 2-year affair was with. She won't give up his name and won't talk about her 2-year romance - it's off the table for discussion. Ain't she special? That's probably because her last affair was with someone the OP *knows* or is related to; I'd bet good money on it. We already know she has no boundaries at all and has set the bar unbelievably low, so I'm willing to bet her last affair partner was probably someone the OP knows and he probably still sees or talks to this person on an occasional basis. The complete lack of remorse and utter disrespect this woman has heaped on the OP's head for literally _years_ (which he has sadly accepted for years) is a pretty good indication that she's not going to change for the better in this lifetime.

Just because the OP thinks she's stopped cheating doesn't mean she's become a better person. She lacks remorse and still feels justified for everything she's done.


----------



## ConanHub

In Absentia said:


> So you are saying, in a nutshell, that people can't ever change? Cheaters especially? At all. Ever.


You pulled that out of the air.

I'm one of the head cheerleaders and advocates for change on this site.

This woman might have stopped letting relatives and stray gym members bed her but it takes a hell of a lot of work to overcome one affair. This woman had one with his brother, that in itself is a family destroying event, she then proceeded to not work on herself at all and had another affair. She then did no work on herself or her marriage and had the audacity to keep things ****ty between her and her hard working, FAITHFUL husband. He finally has the backbone to confront her and she admits to something but refuses to talk about it at all and would leave him if he needed to know anything to help him work it out.

She flat out refuses to help him process any of it or go through any discomfort for his benefit so he has to suck it all up himself and just be happy with kissing her faithless ass.

You are in a sexless relationship so your thought process might be harmed by the fact that the woman in this story has sex with her husband and it looks pretty good compared to what you are dealing with.


----------



## In Absentia

ConanHub said:


> You pulled that out of the air.
> 
> I'm one of the head cheerleaders and advocates for change on this site.
> 
> This woman might have stopped letting relatives and stray gym members bed her but it takes a hell of a lot of work to overcome one affair. This woman had one with his brother, that in itself is a family destroying event, she then proceeded to not work on herself at all and had another affair. She then did no work on herself or her marriage and had the audacity to keep things ****ty between her and her hard working, FAITHFUL husband. He finally has the backbone to confront her and she admits to something but refuses to talk about it at all and would leave him if he needed to know anything to help him work it out.
> 
> She flat out refuses to help him process any of it or go through any discomfort for his benefit so he has to suck it all up himself and just be happy with kissing her faithless ass.


But according to the OP, the affairs were ages ago and *she has changed*. She is a very good wife and an wonderful mother. You don't believe him, obviously. I agree the OP has processed the whole saga really badly and in a harmful personal way, but if he says his wife has changed, I believe him.



ConanHub said:


> You are in a sexless relationship so your thought process might be harmed by the fact that the woman in this story has sex with her husband and it looks pretty good compared to what you are dealing with.


Thank you for reminding me... :laugh: I resent this comment a bit, because it has nothing to do with this case. My thought process hasn't been harmed in those terms.

Anyway, I'm not in a sexless relationship because we don't have a relationship anymore.


----------



## TAMAT

Quite alot of detail is missing for example.

Does he still associate with the brother, and more importantly does his WW still see her brother even at family events.

Does the brothers wife know the history.

Does the family at large know the history.

I don't know how he walks around looking at people when any of them could be the OM, or any male in contact with his WW could be the OM.


----------



## ConanHub

TAMAT said:


> Quite alot of detail is missing for example.
> 
> Does he still associate with the brother, and more importantly does his WW still see her brother even at family events.
> 
> Does the brothers wife know the history.
> 
> Does the family at large know the history.
> 
> I don't know how he walks around looking at people when any of them could be the OM, or any male in contact with his WW could be the OM.


I wouldn't have stayed with this stray wife personally but my brother and I would have had a very "intense" "conversation" where I would be doing most of the "talking". Afterwards it would depend on a number of things if he was allowed to remain in my life. This is trailer trash ****.


----------



## rugswept

@TAMAT .. hi. My brother is out of the picture. 
At the time the incident with my brother occurred, me and future W were going together about 2 years. we weren't married yet. we got into social contact with my brother here and there and he moved in on her. she liked him and started some side bar stuff. 

i was in the factories at the time, working beyond belief (30-40 tons of production per day kind of work). i noticed some evenings when i told her i wasn't going to be around that he wasn't around either. after about a month i figured out what was going on. 

my brother was a serious substance abuser, an extreme alcoholic, ended up in institutions for a period of time and has spent the last 30-40 years as a recluse. he was never really around at any family events. also, he had a very sordid sexual history. he was a bad choice by W to carry on with.


----------



## rugswept

*duplicate.*

duplicate.


----------



## sokillme

rugswept said:


> @TAMAT .. hi. My brother is out of the picture.
> At the time the incident with my brother occurred, me and future W were going together about 2 years. we weren't married yet. we got into social contact with my brother here and there and he moved in on her. she liked him and started some side bar stuff.
> 
> i was in the factories at the time, working beyond belief (30-40 tons of production per day kind of work). i noticed some evenings when i told her i wasn't going to be around that he wasn't around either. after about a month i figured out what was going on.
> 
> my brother was a serious substance abuser, an extreme alcoholic, ended up in institutions for a period of time and has spent the last 30-40 years as a recluse. he was never really around at any family events. also, he had a very sordid sexual history. he was a bad choice by W to carry on with.


Your poor wife she was just powerless to his advancements. /s


----------



## Prodigal

You mentioned we all have to make sacrifices. We each have our own cross to bear. Yes, I do agree with this. However, life didn't hand you this particular "cross." You chose it. And it sounds like you have martyred yourself to this particular cause. 

When I think of marital "crosses" one must bear, what comes to mind is a spouse who is physically disabled, dealing with mental illness, dealing with a serious physical illness. One partner makes the necessary sacrifices to aid/assist/accommodate their spouse in need.

In your case, you made the sacrifice to permit your wife to cheat on you without her having to pay reparations. Something is wrong with this picture ...


----------



## happydad

rugswept said:


> @TAMAT .. hi. My brother is out of the picture.
> At the time the incident with my brother occurred, me and future W were going together about 2 years. we weren't married yet. we got into social contact with my brother here and there and he moved in on her. she liked him and started some side bar stuff.
> 
> i was in the factories at the time, working beyond belief (30-40 tons of production per day kind of work). i noticed some evenings when i told her i wasn't going to be around that he wasn't around either. after about a month i figured out what was going on.
> 
> my brother was a serious substance abuser, an extreme alcoholic, ended up in institutions for a period of time and has spent the last 30-40 years as a recluse. he was never really around at any family events. also, he had a very sordid sexual history. he was a bad choice by W to carry on with.


You said you were here to say hi, but seriously, why are you here?


----------



## rugswept

there was an introduction page and i gave some of my history. everything else after the intro was responding to fill in the blanks on questions or observations. 

my intent is to offer support to those who have gone through the misery of these A's. 
i did offer what i thought didn't go well and the bad decisions i made. 

back in the day there weren't any support sites like this. had there been, i definitely would have taken a different track. 
until i got on forums a few years ago, i just didn't know what happened to me and how i felt is what everyone feels. 
it's such a miserable experience and the BS need all the support they can get.


----------



## ConanHub

I have seen @rugswept offer some decent advice on a couple of threads so while I don't support his situation or believe his wife is a good person ( mostly not a grown up or responsible), I have seen that he has something to offer others because he doesn't advocate his condition as healthy or advisable.

That is valuable.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I agree with those who challenge your statement that your wife is a good person now.

If she cannot see the pain that you are still obviously in (and trying hard to suppress) and not give you the details you so obviously and desparately need to even begin to process this and begin healing, then she is simply not a good person. At best she is a good mother (although even that I challenge, since she is harming her child's father) and has resisted cheating again (something that she has proven she can do more than once).

I cannot understand how an adult couldn't see that sleeping with your future husband's brother (especially someone like whom you described) was not wrong and a fatal blow to any relationship (not to mention the opinion of others of her which can never go away). I cannot see how she didnt see the same with this other POS (from the gym ?) that she bedded for TWO FREAKING YEARS!

But mostly it breaks my heart to see you blame yourself for both infidelity incidents as well as rugsweep them big time. 

For your own peace of mind and well being, she really, really needs to sit down and not only give you full details of the affair but even attempt a time line of the affair (even if it was decades ago). If you do not get this you have NO chance of healing. None.


----------



## TAMAT

Rugswept,

You wrote, 

*back in the day there weren't any support sites like this. had there been, i definitely would have taken a different track. until i got on forums a few years ago, i just didn't know what happened to me and how i felt is what everyone feels. it's such a miserable experience and the BS need all the support they can get.* 

I have to agree I thought for 20+ years that the reason my W cheated on me was because I was inadequate, and my W was very attractive, it wasn't her failings but mine.

I also believed that people just got over cheating, like it was a joke, and that there was something wrong with me because I never did. 

I ignored or didn't recognize the evidence all around me of people destroyed by infidelity.

Almost everyone on this site wished they had a resource like this when it happened, or even better before it happened.


----------



## Marc878

rugswept said:


> there was an introduction page and i gave some of my history. everything else after the intro was responding to fill in the blanks on questions or observations.
> 
> my intent is to offer support to those who have gone through the misery of these A's.
> i did offer what i thought didn't go well and the bad decisions i made.
> 
> back in the day there weren't any support sites like this. had there been, i definitely would have taken a different track.
> until i got on forums a few years ago, i just didn't know what happened to me and how i felt is what everyone feels.
> it's such a miserable experience and the BS need all the support they can get.


I think you're right. You learn more from mistakes than anything else.


----------

