# I am a LD wife - and I want to fix my marriage



## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Hello there,

I am 29 yo, married for 2,5 years. My husband is older than me (I'm his second marriage). He is HD, I am LD. Or I would say I was a ND - no drive. But I realised it only recently.

I cannot really explain it properly, but I just wasn't bothered with sex ever in my life - I didn't have that physical need for it, and I honestly thought that no one does have the NEED for it - people just exaggerate. I am good-looking, slender, fit, and wearing Agent Provocateur on daily basis. I never had an orgasm with a man (first I was faking it, then I started honestly saying it, cause I did get pleasant feelings out of sex anyway, just not an orgasm). And yes, I can have an orgasm when masturbating. I am also an OCD. For me a suggestion of having sex was always like equal to suggesting to wash the floors or any other type of house work, with the only difference that if I do wash the floors from time to time in real life, then for sex I never seemed to have the proper time, I was always busy with something else. I mean, for me to have sex was OK, but it will distract me from what I was doing, so I would have to stop doing what I was doing and start messing about. That was my idea of what sex is. But I honestly thought that it is pretty same for everybody (including most men, including my husband). Even though I heard all the time from all sides about human's NEED for sex. I didn't have the need so I didn't believe it.

To keep the story short, now I want to fix my marriage. By now we have been in the "dry" season for about a year (with about 3-4 episodes of sex, but those were more like exceptions, non-systematic). For me it was nothing major - I still felt loved and happy. And I thought it was mutual. But my husband - like many men here I suppose - went through that decline from "I want sex" to "I don't want to be bothered any more". So when we passed that stage I actually felt sort of relieved - I wash't asked to "wash the floors" every night. But I thought that it was not a big deal for my husband either. I was wrong.

I want to fix it. I want to make my husband happy. And it's not that I was strongly against sex - I do get my pleasure out of it, I just didn't think it was of that importance for him, for us.
Anyway. I have already started - so you can count that we had some rain in our dessert last night. But it doesn't seem to be so easy to resume the normal sex life even when the "guilty" one is trying. To just have that "rain" in our dessert last night I had to spend 3 days chasing my husband (I don't complain, cause obviously he chased me much longer when I didn't care) with suggestions. For example, we got some cherry pie for Xmas and whipped cream, and I was sitting on our bed in a robe saying "what would you say to having the cake in bed, then you could put some whipped cream on me and..". You know what he replied? He was standing there looking very seriously in the ceiling and finally SERIOUSLY said: "I don't want to have the pie in bed - there will be crumbs afterwards". He seemed to not even hear the whipped-cream-and-me bit. That only added to my decision to fix it - cause seriously, that is NOT what I want a man to think about when I am anywhere near him.
So. Further it will be easier to put things to articles, as I have questions to you regarding every of these points:
1. Next dat I did confess to him that I didn't realise before how bad I was to him and that I want to fix it. The effect was similar to the cherry pie story - he just smiled at me and said "oh that's nice dear". He didn't believe me, right? Do you think it's a normal/ expected reaction from a man in his situation? I mean I didn't expect him to jump to the ceiling of course, but it was such a big step for me to realise and actually admit I was wrong, so I was expecting something more than just "that's nice"..
2. Another issue is that after that "that's nice" nothing followed from him - he just kept watching the telly. I had to initialise it 2 more times before the thing actually happened. Did he lost the interest in me? Am I not attractive to him any more? I know I am attractive by social standards, and he says he still loves me, so is it just a sort of a "shock effect" or what?
3. When we were actually into one - sorry for so much detail - at some point he went "off", so I had to stimulate him manually for quite long. Before the drought it never happened. When we had our accidental sex episodes throughout the dry year - that's when it started happening. Does he have someone else? Or probably he masturbated in the day and didn't expect me to jump on him so that's why it was difficult?..

Please comment.


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## Moops (Sep 26, 2014)

Why do you feel the need to fix it? You are low drive so it's not natural to "force" yourself to be sexual. He doesn't seem to be that bothered by it, and if he is but is just hiding it why not suggest that he reduce his sex drive with medication? Then he wouldn't be suffering silently.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*Moops*, that's an unexpected answer tbh  well, first why I want to fix it if I am low drive - I cannot say for all the low drives, but for me sex is not disgusting. It is just out of priority for me. But if it is important for my other half - it's not that big deal for me to concentrate and to foresee time and energy for it. As I said, I do get pleasure out of it, it's just never been my #1 choice before now.
As for medicating my husband - I honestly don't think that a man in his mid 40s deserve such a thing as being medically suppressed without a real reason for it. Why wouldn't all LD women then take medication to become HD?


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Maybe he doesn't want to get his hopes up too high, only to have them crash and burn down to Earth. After all, why get excited over one sexual encounter that just may be the last one for a long period of time?

I'm not trying to make you feel bad but to give you some insight into his mind. He hast lost trust in you as a lover and it is going to take more than a few sexual encounters before he regains his trust in you and becomes enthusiastic to initiate sex with you.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*chaos*, thank you for the reply, that is actually what I suspected/ hoped for - the idea of him not being sure rather than him having a lover. Today things went much smoother, we managed without any "cherry pie" story  hopefully when I persist for longer time it will get easier and easier. I just got scared at some point - I always thought deep inside me that the reason was just in me, and felt guilty for it, but I thought as soon as I want it back it WILL be back. I just never felt like doing it right now, "next week maybe". And I never expected it to be "too late" to fix. You know that idea when we think there is always time to be in time. Thanks


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Good chance your husband has checked out. You may want to talk, talk, and talk some more and get some FC or MC involved.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

From your description, and from my own experience, he sounds "guarded" to me. Guarded with a bit of resentment mixed in. I'm not sure what the answer is. I think that genuine enthusiasm and some persistence at the beginning will go a long way. Perhaps also some non-sexual words of affirmation....compliments, admiration etc...


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Keep an eye on the loosing the boner problem. If he is in his 40's and that does not resolve itself after he comes to realize the new you is not some cruel headfake then he should be evaluated medically. Could be the first signs of heart disease or something else.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening terracotta
Its great that you want to fix things. 

The first thing you need to try to figure out is whether you husband really wants more sex. It is possible that this is a LD /LD relationship, not a LD/HD one.

It is quite possible that he has been turned down so much that he doesn't want to "get his hopes up". I got like that after many years. My wife's rare signs of interest in sex were just a frustrating reminder of what I couldn't normally have. If that is the case, he will likely realize that things are really different and be very happy. 

Depending on the personalities, it might help to just talk to him. Let him know that you really want to fix things - for both of you.

A few thoughts:

1) for some people having sex makes them want more sex. If you have sex a few times a week, you may find that you want it more and start to enjoy it as well.

2). You know how to please yourself. Again, depending on his attitudes you may be able to let him know what you like so he can please you. (in addition to doing things for him).

3). You need to find out what HE likes. After so long with minimal sex, you may not have a good idea of what excites him. Try to get him to tell you and do it. (you don't need to cater to EVERY fantasy, but find out what he likes and do what you are willing to do).


Now, just because you were LD, doesn't mean that he is somehow the world's greatest lover if given a chance. It may take time for him to learn what you like. Its possible that he isn't even interested.

For me, when my wife became interested in sex again, it took a week or two for me to really "believe" that things were different, and after that everything was great.


It really is good that you are willing to try to fix this. Initially you can make the focus on him, but over time you need to discover what YOU enjoy. Sex is only fun if your partner is enjoying it as well.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

john117 said:


> Good chance your husband has checked out. You may want to talk, talk, and talk some more and get some FC or MC involved.


This may also be true. That is, "checked out" or given up on the situation is a bit further down the process than what I wrote about in my post (i.e. guarded and resentful). If he's gone so far as to be truly checked out then fixing it is a much harder process and maybe not doable. Don't ask me how I know this....


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Terracota said:


> but I thought as soon as I want it back it WILL be back. I just never felt like doing it right now, "next week maybe"


Little selfish there, probably feels pretty taken for granted.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Terracota sometimes it is not the sex that is the issue but the unwillingness to resolve the issue that is the killer of desire. Hopefully he will see and appreciate your efforts and become your happy lover once more.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

john117 said:


> get some FC or MC involved.


Sorry, what are those FC and MC? I didn't get the abbreviations, soz :scratchhead:


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

anonmd said:


> Keep an eye on the loosing the boner problem. If he is in his 40's and that does not resolve itself after he comes to realize the new you is not some cruel headfake then he should be evaluated medically. Could be the first signs of heart disease or something else.





WorkingOnMe said:


> This may also be true. That is, "checked out" or given up on the situation is a bit further down the process than what I wrote about in my post (i.e. guarded and resentful). If he's gone so far as to be truly checked out then fixing it is a much harder process and maybe not doable. Don't ask me how I know this....


He did develop the phimosis thing throughout this year  the GP says it happens with aged men as skin loses its natural elasticity, and he always had SLIGHT problem with that, but since we didn't use it for quite long the skin went very tough.. It might be hurting him probably? Anyone knows anything of this problem?..
I got him an appointment to a surgeon so far..


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

anonmd said:


> Little selfish there, probably feels pretty taken for granted.


I am selfish, and I am working on it.. but aren't many people (especially youngish) see things like that, in a maximalist way and egocentrically? I hope I am not the only ***** out there


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*richardsharpe*,
Thank you for you reply. So far I really don't know where to start with all I screwed up. Being confused, I opened a bottle of Chianti and ordered some lingerie from the internet. Girls are such girls lol
As for actual action, so far I act lamely: I scheduled myself to have 4 times a week for the next month to make sure he knows I'm serios. After it, when he hopefully have some more trust in me, I will go intro fantasies world. I don't want to push it yet unless he reveals anything himself you know, we have all life in front of us, why pushing everything in a month-time. Hopefully he is still healthy, the guys scared me in other replies (


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

chaos said:


> Terracota sometimes it is not the sex that is the issue but the unwillingness to resolve the issue that is the killer of desire. Hopefully he will see and appreciate your efforts and become your happy lover once more.


And hopefully I can persist with my intention..


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

FC - family counseling
MC - marriage counseling
IC - individual counseling

Chianti is for breakfast 

My latest discovery is a mix of Baileys and Courvoisier. Put some good music (Enigma, Sara Brightman...) and TALK.

Then TALK some more.

And more.

Get used to "dating" each other.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

john117 said:


> FC - family counseling
> MC - marriage counseling
> IC - individual counselling


Now i got it, thanks)



> Chianti is for breakfast


TOUGH American men  *I am very foreign to english-speaking society, so I guess I can admire it in this way))*



> My latest discovery is a mix of Baileys and Courvoisier. Put some good music (Enigma, Sara Brightman...) and TALK.
> Then TALK some more.
> And more.


Can you prompt some topics to talk about please?.. Like about our problems? or trying to concentrate on something positive?..



> Get used to "dating" each other.


You mean going out together? Or that's a difficult one cause I am at the Uni 10 hours a day (it's a long drive) and he works till well past midnight every day including weekends.. We live on a small island with little variety really - we have two cinemas around, lots of so-so restaurants, nice beach promenade, and that's about it. When we were going out the funnest bit was the dusky car parks of numerous hotels, well, yeah  What would be your ideal idea of a date? Or not ideal, just an idea


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Both my wife and I have done our time in academia. Ten hours a day work or study would not be so bad. We did that and more with a toddler in tow and of course had a second baby in the middle of the semester. So I know about the stress. I also have two daughters in college.

Dating is simple - spend time together and talk about your school, your favorite spots on campus, help each other prepare for a test, proofread each other's papers... I was very happy when a date was Wendy's burgers or Popeye's fried chicken, a $1.00 movie at the student center, and a stroll at the mall for an Orange Julius drink. Or with children, a stroll thru campus pushing a stroller....

Do things together. As much as I'm not in the best mood those days marriage wise, when the weather is good we get on our bikes and do 20-30 miles at a time. In our better days we cook together, shop for art, etc etc. 

Start with anything in common between you. Maybe you have a common class or type of course or body of knowledge you need to learn. You'll be surprised how much you open up discussing the use of time series analysis or double feedback loop mental models . 

Talk about anything. You're young so you have time. Experiment. Relax. Take up a hobby. Adjust your schedule to spend more time together. Don't make your relationship a big production. The more interest you take in each other's work the easier it gets.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What suddenly caused you to re-evaluate the situation ? 

Be honest here. There must have been a particular incident that made you realize that.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Terra - as with many other people on here I admire you for 1) accepting that you are LD and may be denying your husband 2) deciding to do something about it.

My wife is very much like you...simply not interested and cannot (will not?) understand that to me it is very important. She even said to our MC 'He just has to accept that I am really not interested in sex'.

Over the years she has rejected me so often that I have now 'checked' out. On the very rare occasion that my wife does come on to me it is such a surprise that I have great difficulty 'performing'. Perhaps because she has rejected me so often in the past that I feel she is conning me and will suddenly change her mind or (and?) I no longer associate my wife with sex....almost that it is wrong to have sex with her.

She is the mother of my. children and the person I share a house with.
It sounds as if your husband may have the same 'subconscious' issues as me....ie no longer associates you with sex therefore has great difficulty performing.

Perhaps you have to start from the beginning again...holding hands, slow kisses, fondling etc. I dunno.

But good luck and kudos to you for wanting to right things. I hope things are not beyond repair.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

john117 said:


> Maybe you have a common class or type of course or body of knowledge you need to learn.


Well so far I suggested him learning Spanish together in bed, as he lives in Spain for 8 years but still doesn't speak it - we speak only English at home. He seemed to like the idea, but my husband is not really a learning type - he gives up quickly and hardly likes reading.. If Spanish doesn't work, I will think more about your lines, thank you for the advice


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*askaria*,
Thank you for sharing your story. That's what I felt from my husband - as if me suggesting him sex sounds more weird and less possible to him than any other woman in the world appearing in the bedroom and suggesting him same  anyway something needs to be done - as I don't want to be a no-sex image for my man either, so if it's "too late" I will just let it go.. though so far things look promising


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> What suddenly caused you to re-evaluate the situation ?
> Be honest here. There must have been a particular incident that made you realize that.


Well, there were 2 incidents. But to explain it fully I need to explain first why our dry season started.
My husband had a vasectomy in his first marriage, and had a reversal after getting on with me. The dry season started after we got the results that the reversal failed. I sort of lost any interest in sex with him as it anyway couldn't give me what I perhaps wanted most from the marriage - a child. Besides, as I am a young woman without kids and without obvious health problems, for me it meant the choice - either we divorce, or I have to go through the hells of IVF. I was crying for about half a year after the news.
Half a year later I pulled myself together and decided to do something - I was not ready to divorce, so we went for IVF. It failed completely. I cried for another 2 months. Then I moved on and went for another program. Failed again. Cried for 3 days. The last one was a month ago.
That's the sad part of the story. Now the cheering one about what made me realise about sex (even though I realised it only half a year after the actual incident).
I'm not sure what level of information the readers have on IVF, so in short - part of the program is to inject hormones in the woman to produce more eggs in the same cycle. So basically they medically increase the amount of natural hormones in a woman's body by several times. Most women complain of changing moods, soreness etc during the process. For me it was different. I felt something new and even pleasant to me - I felt natural sexual desire. I felt what it is when sex is actually a priority. I don't know whether I would have ever felt it without hormones injected. The irony is that my husband was not there with me when I suddenly became HD. After the program the sadness of its failure nulled the memory of that feeling and I forgot about it, but that was the first episode that mattered.
During the second attempt I got that feeling again, and it stayed with me for a month. I was more relaxed than first time. We still haven't had anything with my husband as I was scared to mess up the results of the program. Anyway results were zero again, so after the initial sadness I started thinking about my life. I felt the growing anger towards my husband for me having to go through all this (even though deep in my head I understand I agreed to marry a vasectomied man myself, yet the pity for myself was screaming it's all his fault anyway). And suddenly I remembered how hopeful and in love I was before the wedding. I made a short list on a piece of paper of how I saw my married life a month before the wedding (you could have noticed that as an OCD i'm pretty keen on making lists). Then I put two more columns to it - first one was listing what my husband did for my dream life to come true, second one was I did for my own dreams to come true. The list included our relationship as a family, description of a nice house, me doing a fitness program, and kids. And the list concentrated on me only - it didn't contain any dreams of my husband at all for then. And know what? Even when brining up the things about MY dreams only, my column looked pretty ****ty compared to my husband's one. He seemed to have done more for my dreams to come true in our marriage than me! (even though at least half of it was never a priority for him). The only really "bad" point he got was in the kids field, but again - even with that he is very supportive and helpful to me, pays for the doctors, listens to all my whimps, even though again - he already have kids, kids with me are of no priority for him. And then I felt guilty and started thinking what HIS dreams were for our marriage a month before the wedding. I couldn't remember anything but him saying he fancies me so much and how he would see our sexual relationships etc. And then I remembered that sex NEED feeling I got from hormones. And I realised that I probably denied him in the only thing he actually wanted from me, as if punishing him for not giving me kids naturally. And then I decided that either I need to sort our sex out, or - if we both have serious issues making our marriage difficult - we should divorce. I haven't shared these thoughts with him tho.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

A few questions:

Why did your husband's prior marriage end? Was there sexual incompatability? Any infidelity on his part?

What was your relationship like with your husband prior to marriage? Was sex frequent?

Based on the details you've provided (older man, younger woman, expensive lingerie), I am assuming your husband is well off financially. If there was a major change between your level of sexual activity prior to marriage and after, do you suppose he might believe you manipulated him into getting married?

I give you credit for trying to change your situation. Based on your husband's reactions so far, I would say your situation may be more dire than you think. Especially if his prior marriage broke up because of a similar issue or if he cheated on his prior wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> Why did your husband's prior marriage end? Was there sexual incompatability? Any infidelity on his part?


His wife has changed greatly after a serious illness, as far as I know she became deeply depressed and even hysterical. They both agreed on the divorce, so he hasn't left her. There were no sex issues or infidelity on his part (none of which I know of at least).



> What was your relationship like with your husband prior to marriage? Was sex frequent?


I was never a too hot chic, even though always wanted to be one. We had normal sexual life I suppose, like 2-3 times a week (including bj, which I prefer to normal sex). When we were on a getaway trip or a dat we could have 2-5 a day.



> Based on the details you've provided (older man, younger woman, expensive lingerie), I am assuming your husband is well off financially.


That is not true really. My husband earns enough (TTT) for our family, but I wouldn't say we are well off. Neither I would say I feel very secure about our financial thing in a long perspective due to seasonality of my husband's work. I earned myself so I had expensive lingerie and other stuff even before we met with him (bought it with my own money). Actually the flow of expensive material stuff has lowered to my wardrobe since we got married  but I don't mind that.



> If there was a major change between your level of sexual activity prior to marriage and after, do you suppose he might believe you manipulated him into getting married?


The major change happened when we got his vasectomy reversal results negative (see above). I know for sure he knows I married him for love reasons, not for money or anything else.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"I haven't shared these thoughts with him tho." TerraCota

I think a heart to heart talk with him about all of this would be a good idea. It might awaken him. 

And by the way, I applaud you for trying desperately to address you intimacy. You know how important this is.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Terracota said:


> 2. Another issue is that after that "that's nice" nothing followed from him - he just kept watching the telly. I had to initialise it 2 more times before the thing actually happened. Did he lost the interest in me? Am I not attractive to him any more? I know I am attractive by social standards, and he says he still loves me, so is it just a sort of a "shock effect" or what?


It could be he has been rejected so many times that he doesn't care anymore. This happens when someone initiates a lot and gets turned down - eventually they don't expect it to happen and don't believe it will and, yes, this can cause them to lose their attraction to their partner.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You said you never felt a "need" for sex. Are you asexual? I am just curious because you said at one point you did have sex with him 2-3 times a week but then it is confusing because you said you don't feel a need for it.


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

I also commend you for realizing your situation and taking action to make things better. :smthumbup:

Perhaps you're not entirely realizing how he might be feeling, or has been feeling. I *just watched* and highly recommend you check out "Michele's TEDx Talk" here:

Divorce Busting

She offers pretty good insight into how men feel when they're not getting the sex they crave.

Again, kudos to you. I hope you make it.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Perhaps he sees you more as a daughter he provides for than a sexual woman who is his wife.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Terracotta 
I wrote a long reply, then accidentally nuked it with a backspace. (argh). In summary my wife and I went through infertility treatments and they have a horrible effect on intimacy. I've seen papers that many couples take years for intimacy to recover if it ever does.

So I understand one of the reasons things went bad for you. Be aware that the infertility issues may have badly hurt him as well.

I think that the best approach to fixing things is to keep trying. Have sex frequently. At first just concentrate on doing what he most enjoys - but start to let him know what you like as well. Understand that it may take a while for him to become comfortable again with intimacy. 

One important thing: try to keep the mindset that you are doing this as a "gift" to him to make him happy. NOT as a "chore" that you feel you need to do. Its a very important distinction. I enjoy giving my wife back rubs - because she enjoys them and I like to make her happy. I would feel completely used if I *had* to do it, or was doing it out of guilt.

Good luck!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Terracotta,

Your story is very moving.
Vasectomy is a very drastic procedure. I cannot understand how anyone, male or female can sterilize themselves.

The failed reversal – more money for doctors – and the IVF – more money for doctors demonstrate how the desire to reproduce is central to our subconscious psychological balance. Once that power is removed, is it any wonder that sex is ruined?

You need to boost your husband's masculine self esteem. Does he work out in the gym? Weightlifting can help him. Sounds superficial but many men need to physically refurbish themselves to cope.


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## Beingpushedaway (Dec 10, 2014)

Wow.

I would like to chime in. First, I applaud you for recognizing the problem and wanting to address it. I would like to give my perspective of the situation and then my recommended solution.

Perspective: As you have posted on my situation, you know I have a wife that is either LD or, more likely, doesn't want to do it with me. Either way, that affects him in many ways. It affects his ego, confidence, enthusiasm. If you have seen those erectile dysfunction ads, there is some truth to how a man feels about himself when he is with a woman and she is sexually satisfied with him. So, you suddenly wanting to have sex again - after many years - doesn't seem genuine to him. Even wanting to, but not really enjoying it, affects his frame of mind.

On your end, there is a biological component to the sex drive thing. You wanted to get pregnant (a natural urge). He couldn't do it. Your urge to do the reproductive component was diminished. Not to mention all of the other things you went through.

My suggestion is on many levels. Being in a similar situation I withdrew quite a bit too. To get me back on track would take time, even with an active wife. On your end is baby steps. You mention you like giving oral - even mentioned that you prefer it. Don't just give him oral - REALLY GIVE IT to him. Dress up, make-up. Seduce him. Talk dirty to him. Anything that will get him going. For that time he can really get off on you without feeling that he isn't pleasing you. 

You mentioned that you can cum with a vibrator. Do it. Make a show of it. Be the sexual aggressor. Make him watch but let him know that you really want him involved (kissing, touching your breasts, rubbing your inner thighs, maybe even penetration while you stimulate your clit). 

In a way you have taken away his man hood. He doesn't want to lead - lead for him. Over time he will gain his confidence back and he really will want to lead. Whatever you do, don't chop him off at the knees though. If he has a fantasy he wants to act out, do it. At least try it once. Then if you don't enjoy it or you are uncomfortable, address it outside the bedroom and have an alternate suggestion. Now, when I say acting out fantasy, I am not talking about pain or going to a swinger club or something. I am still talking about consensual acts between the two of you. But if he opens up and wants to play naughty schoolgirl - do it. Because if you shut him out of sharing fantasies, you shut him out of trusting you.

I wish you the best of luck and hope that between the two of you you find an enjoyable sex life.



Terracota said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I am 29 yo, married for 2,5 years. My husband is older than me (I'm his second marriage). He is HD, I am LD. Or I would say I was a ND - no drive. But I realised it only recently.
> 
> ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I agree with Beingpushedaway's post 100%.

My marriage took on a LD/HD dynamic about 5 yrs ago. For the first couple of years I got angry about it, then gradually when nothing changed I started to just withdraw. I pretty much completely checked out after a while. Ultimately, I realized that I was becoming consummed with self pity, so I started to make changes without waiting for my wife to come around. 

In any event, I think I understand why your husband is reacting the way he is.

Your husband has determined through experience that it is probably not worth the effort to engage with you on that level. His experience has showed him that the act itself is probably not that satisfying and actually maybe even counterproductive in that afterwards he gets his hopes up that things will be back on track.

In other words, he has probably lost all trust for you in this department. You will need to overcompensate both in enthusiasm of delivery and in consistentcy if you want to overcome this.

Really, it seems like it would be something like a total lifestyle change. People do it when they want to get healthy physically. I think it takes a similar commitment to change a relationship once it starts to go downhill.

Good luck.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The "not worth the effort" is what I have spoken of in my 95% effort for 5% result sermons here in TAM...


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## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

As a checked out husband myself. I totally agree with the observations above. Is not worth the effort.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

First of all, good for you for recognizing there's an issue and coming here with it, looking for help. That's seriously awesome. 

My replies to your points are below, in bold:



Terracota said:


> 1. Next dat I did confess to him that I didn't realise before how bad I was to him and that I want to fix it. The effect was similar to the cherry pie story - he just smiled at me and said "oh that's nice dear". He didn't believe me, right? Do you think it's a normal/ expected reaction from a man in his situation? I mean I didn't expect him to jump to the ceiling of course, but it was such a big step for me to realise and actually admit I was wrong, so I was expecting something more than just "that's nice"..
> 
> *Like the others have said here, there's little to no trust from him in regards to this. He sees your effort, but doesn't trust that it will last or that you'll be consistent with it. He's very guarded about, and is also thinking it's too good to be true. The last thing he wants is to finally think he has a wife who is on the same level as he is, only for you to go back to the way you've currently been a month or two, or six, down the road.
> 
> ...


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Women know men are visual creatures. It would stand to reason then that looking beautiful would make a woman sexy. Here's something you may not have considered. It is not a woman's beauty that makes her sexy. It is her attitude and her desire to be fully engaged in frequent sex. A beautiful woman who is ambivalent about sex is no more sexy than a Picasso or the Sydney Opera House. Especially to the man who knows her heart. I would suggest that he no longer sees you as a sexual creature.

Your epiphany is admirable. Take small steps and don't expect him to trust easily.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Not entirely related but are you ok with the possibility of not having a kid at all ?

You said you are 29. Be absolutely sure about this part. Else you will have the rest of your life to resent him for.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

Terra,

is it that the only thing you want from life is a child ?
don't you want a husband to share life with you , I beleive you do .

DON'T FALL in the trap that when you got your child you loose your husband ...

Unless he is not fit at all for you .

It is not clear yet when you said the reversal of vasectomy is negative if physically he is unable deliver living sperms .

The fact that you can get a O by yourself means that your not really LD ; you are LD under the circumnstances you are stating ;some history or social / religious ties might have pressured you to ignore your desires.

A man will notice if his wife is enjoying even if he enjoyed himself to the max ;and will not feel well if she doesn't get exited even if gets the best out of it himself ; when feels his wife unhappy , he will go to his cave and try to find a solution ...

When he looks for no solution anymore ,if he is LD he will survive it ; if HD he will definetly search for another nest .


intimacy is a blessed between a husband and his wife ; in some religions it goes up to the level stating that angels watches them ... 

It is a very good start that you don't want to loose you husband ,and you have the intention to work on it .

I strongly believe that you are not enjoying sex because you haven't been through a real sex experience with the borders you have for yourself.

Do one thing , your husband seems a good guy ; even if he is not ; he will be a better guy if you please him and please yourself ...

throw all barriers and try to get really into it ; frequency is not the measure , quality it is ; quality means that you both get really pleasures met ; if for one of them is not met it is not quality sex.

I assume that you used to do it very vanilla like ...

Since you got an O at least few times by yourself ; do it in front of him ; a lot of men like it ;he will understand that he needs to do more efforts also when you do it .

relax and give him something extra ; do not jump immediately from Bed when done ; do not care about the sheets...

and avoid any love buster; avoid talking to other issues while intimate .

There is nothing better for a man to feel wanted and desired.

It could be for example that just rubbing against his leg u can get an O ; and once you are heated ; he will do the rest .


Don't expect him to know your desires ; even if they are few .

never make him feel ignored or punished after it ;otherwise he will be more careful ti initiate .

and when he does initiate even if you don't feel to do it ;don't reject him ; just go through the wave and try your best to enjoy the moment ; I am not saying you do it wether you like it or not ; it is that offer the max you can give even if it is just cuddling ...

With time , if you don;t harm his masculin feelings ; he will appreciate even a substitute when you really not feeling up to it .
good luck


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

jorgegene said:


> I think a heart to heart talk with him about all of this would be a good idea. It might awaken him.


I don't want to scary him yet - if there will be poor results in a couple of months from his part, I will have this talk with him then.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Jellybeans said:


> You said you never felt a "need" for sex. Are you asexual? I am just curious because you said at one point you did have sex with him 2-3 times a week but then it is confusing because you said you don't feel a need for it.


I don't feel the need for it, even though I do get some nice feelings out of it when it is started. It's just never the priority for personally me, I need to concentrate on reasons why I need to initiate it rather than just feel it. We had more positive sex dynamics of 2-3 times a week generally due to my desire to have the baby. After we found out it will not happen so easily for us our sexual life crushed.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*HiLibido, richardsharpe, Beingpushedaway, Anon1111, john117, im_tam, alexm* thank you for the replies guys, I will try to implement all your advice. I do understand tho that if I cannot have/ fix normal sexual life with my husband (who is a very caring and understanding person in my understanding), I will basically sentence myself to a lonely life ever after. Or a life with making someone unhappy. Cause hardly I will happen to have normal sexual life with anyone else. I'm not ready for it. So for me it is as critical as for him now, I suppose 

*LongWalk* thank you for you reply, no, my husband doesn't work out (and never actually used to), but he is quite fit by nature (used to be a professional swimmer), so he is not overweight. We did agree to go for Australian clean&lean eating plan after the holidays together))


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Cre8ify said:


> the Sydney Opera House.


Sydney Opera House... no more sexy than the Sydney Opera House.. that's a very good comparison really, thank you) I will keep it in my mind now as a reminder of what I do NOT want to be


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Perhaps he sees you more as a daughter he provides for than a sexual woman who is his wife.


Probably, but he has a daughter almost my age, so hardly he married me to have another one.. Probably that's where our relations are now tho because of me. Thanks.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

warlock07 said:


> Not entirely related but are you ok with the possibility of not having a kid at all ?
> You said you are 29. Be absolutely sure about this part. Else you will have the rest of your life to resent him for.


I am not OK with that and if we cannot have a child within next 2-3 years I will file the divorce whatever relations we have by that time. My husband knows about it.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

I know it is very difficult to break old habits and adopt new ones, but sex is beyond simple intercourse, it is arguably one of the highest forms of physical, emotional and spiritual bonding that two people can ever experience. It is also the symbolic expression of two married souls.

I wish you and your husband the best. Take care.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Zouz said:


> Terra,
> is it that the only thing you want from life is a child ?
> don't you want a husband to share life with you, I beleive you do .


 I do want a husband as well, just the child seems a more painful question now as I am sort of being deprived of this natural thing. Ideally I want a child to raise with my current husband as hardly I will find a better dad (and a better husband for myself, let's be honest).



> It is not clear yet when you said the reversal of vasectomy is negative if physically he is unable deliver living sperms .


Well, that's the tricky point, as it turns out in the world of assisted reproduction no one gives any warranties. Like you pay lots of money but instead of an SLA get just vague idea of what and why might happen or not happen. So far we know that my husband does produce living sperm, but to get them he needs an operation (each time as the material is too weak to freeze). We were sort of told (unsurely) that we have a fat chance to have our own child, it just might take a few tries. So far we were not lucky. What scares me is that if we will not be in the lucky number at all and will have to divorce over it anyway (as I am not ready to not having a kid), and then I will be a few years older (over 30), and after numerous hormonal therapies which I didn't really require myself. Well, I guess that's the risk I need to take.



> The fact that you can get a O by yourself means that your not really LD ; you are LD under the circumnstances you are stating.


You are right, I have my drive lowered even more (not that it was very high ever, but still) after a few misfortunate episodes in my early life. I read throughly all your advice and will try to follow them, thank you for your time to reply to me


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening terracota
a story:

When my wife and I got married we were both sure we didn't want children. Years later though she changed her mind. Having a child became the most important thing in the world for her. I really didn't want them but went along since I figured children were expected in marriage. 

She couldn't get pregnant. Sex became a chore - done at the right time and the right way. Infertility treatments. Stress. Sex becomes a dreaded task, intimacy gone. 

Finally when she realizes she can't have children, she wants to adopt. I convince her that we should take in a foster child first - a short term "shelter care". She is OK with this since adoption takes over a year anyway.

We get a 5 year old girl to foster - a wonderful child. I love that child, but don't want her. Over the next several months my wife learns that she doesn't like children. She learns that raising a child is not what she expected at all. She withdraws to the point where I am acting as a single parent because to me care of a child takes precedence over everything else. 

Eventually the foster care ends and the child goes back. It takes years for our lives to mostly recover. 

If it had been our own child rather than a foster one, I would be a single father now, raising a child I loved but did not want. Sad, since it is clear my father never wanted me. 

(btw, my story is worse than it sounds, but I don't want to go into all the details). 

Be very very sure that you know what you want. Some people very much enjoy raising children, but not all. It is a decision you can never undo. 






Terracota said:


> I am not OK with that and if we cannot have a child within next 2-3 years I will file the divorce whatever relations we have by that time. My husband knows about it.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

You're probably not going to like what I am about to say.

If having a child is your number 1 priority, you would probably be best served to end this relationship now.

If your top priority is to have a happy marriage with your husband, then you should assume that you will never have a child together.

There seems to be a bit of cognitive dissonance in your posts. You've already tried and failed to get pregnant. It will not get easier as you get older. You've already admitted this, but seem to want to put off reckoning with the implication this has on your marriage. 

The implication is that by staying with your husband, you are basically forfeiting the ability to have a child. If you are going to move forward with him in a productive way, you will need to accept this.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I'm sorry, but I think Anon111 is absolutely correct.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*richardharpe, Anon111*, nono, by no means I would say you offended me or I didn't like what you say, I appreciate all the opinions and I asked for them myself.
I dare to remind that my primary concern in this thread is not how to get pregnant but how to make my sexual life with my current husband better 

In my country people say "whatever happens is for the better". Sometimes it is hard to accept this thought - especially when you feel the unluckiest, saddest, and the most miserable person in the world sitting on the bed for days and crying. But then it starts making sense. Maybe I still have time to assort my sexuality, to find some balance, to bring my current life to a normal standard before moving to the next step? Maybe I MUST do it? In another thread I was proving to *In Absentia* that staying in sexually uncomfortable marriage just for the kids is wrong, that it sets a bad example for the kids of what a family is. Aren't I a hypocrite?  I like this forum because all the people here make me think. My real problem is not in not having a baby. I mean I want to have one, and that is a decisive point for me, but just between us, if all I wanted now was a child I wouldn't get married at all. Seriously. And if I cannot have a proper family now (even without the kid) with my husband (who is so far the most understanding, tolerant, loyal and reliable man I know), do I need a husband at all? Especially if I am myself causing sexless marriage, thus making the man near me unhappy? 
I can hide as much as I want behind the explanations that my bad mood, no sex drive, OCD, rows out of nowhere, are because I'm so unhappy with my husband's vasectomy. I'm the victim. Yeah. It is difficult to admit it, and I think it's first time when I admit in it even to myself, but actually all my previous relations (even when I had no idea of having a child) were always similar: from sex to no sex, from happy me to dramas, boredom, and apathy. But I always found faults in other people, not in myself. And now - if we would have been blessed with a child in our first IVF, would it have settled my unrest? Would I have become sexual, active, happy in my marriage? Or would it just have maken things tougher?

It might sound weird, but that's what I feel. Maybe this situation is my chance to have a normal family, to learn to change MYSELF to be in a normal family, to live with someone, not just with myself and for myself?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

We have some similarities. I have also suffered many years of infertility and ivf. Except it was me who was infertile. That is a very difficult thing to go through. You do become hyper focused on the scientific part of sex. 

Although I am the HD in my marriage I am also a woman who had become accustomed to not orgasming with a partner. Although I do feel a need and desire for sex I can relate to your saying it still feels good regardless.

As many people have chimed in already, being the HD partner results in a lot of years of sorrow and frustration and then suddenly it just switches off and you no longer desire your partner. When I have to spend 13 days talking myself out of wanting sex, needing sex, wanting my dh, and then on day 14 he expects me to just be able to flip it on. It stops working after enough time. If you are 90% reminding yourself that your spouse doesn't desire you then it will eventually be your truth and you accept it. 

A couple of things - if your dh knows you will leave him if he can't give you a child he may already be resigned that your marriage is doomed and may be protecting himself from being too emotionally intimate with you. 

Are you open to using 3rd party reproduction - donor sperm? With that you would need much less medical intervention and still be able to have tour husband and family. One of my teenage children was the result of donated eggs. It's nothing I've ever regretted because it allowed me to experience pregnancy.

What is the situation with your dh and your orgasms? Is it something he wants you to have, tries to give you? How is it you have come to the point where this is regular to you, being with a partner and not having an orgasm? In my case I started out never having them and was embarrassed to say something about it. 18 years slipped away and I'd never had an orgasm with a partner. 

Trying to remedy this situation is difficult. You are much younger than I am though and perhaps it hasn't become a set pattern in your life. Trying to teach someone to give you an orgasm can be embarrassing. At the very least it requires you to make yourself very vulnerable. You mentioned faking in the past - I did the same. When your partner has to go from you seemingly getting off easily every time, to the nights where 45 min of work still results in nothing. That is difficult on everyone. My dh probably liked the former me much better. He had a wife who wanted him and he got sex whenever he wanted it and never had to do anything extra. Now I no longer want him and take a long time to get off as a result. 

I've had to learn masturbate in front of him, which was difficult. Not because he wanted me to or it did anything for him but because I can't deal with not being included any more. It's bad enough not feeling wanted but then to have him just get off and go to sleep. That's just too much. I can't anymore.


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## Zouz (May 28, 2014)

It is really interesting to me to know that a women who is assumed to be ld can get an o by masturbating.the way I see it is that either she doesn't have self esteem or her partner is unable to push right trigger 

For me any women can be sexy even if she is 80  somehow , the definition of being a sexy women and hence trigger a normal men is for me not age dependent I believe this true for many men especially if hd in a sexless marriage. If by standing with your high heels even wearing a bugs bunny pijama he is not aroused then his head is broken


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It seems you have trained your husband to perceive you as being anti-sexual, anti-intimacy. You've spent a long time proving to him that this is the case and you have zero need or desire to be intimate with him. You are surprised when he disbelieves your advances, now? Nobody sane lowers a bucket down into a dry well forever. Is the truth you want to be sexual again just long enough to get pregnant? That sounds pretty similar to being sexual just long enough to get married. If that's what this is, it's manipulative and selfish and I suspect your husband would perceive it as such.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

A lot of stories have been posted here; I should add the story of my late brother to the mix. 

After a decade of infertility treatment they managed to get pregnant (interesting medical problems on both, esp his Crohn's / IBS medications. While their fertility issues occupied their mind the Crohn's / IBS turned into colon cancer (nationalized health care be damned) and he passed away at 50 leaving a 3 year old son. 

Any relationship or human behavior should not be driven primarily by a single motivation.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

MissScarlett said:


> Are you open to using 3rd party reproduction - donor sperm? With that you would need much less medical intervention and still be able to have tour husband and family. One of my teenage children was the result of donated eggs. It's nothing I've ever regretted because it allowed me to experience pregnancy.


We have actually switched to this option now. My husband suggested it, and it took me longer to agree to it than him. The process for me still sucks - but I do consider with giving me green light in this my husband did all he could to settle the problem.



> What is the situation with your dh and your orgasms? Is it something he wants you to have, tries to give you? How is it you have come to the point where this is regular to you, being with a partner and not having an orgasm?


He wants me to have one, but I never had it. I'm thinking of introducing a clit vibrator in our bedroom for he could join in my fun, but still haven't done it. Don't know what I am waiting for)) I don't know how to explain to a HD woman how it is not to have orgasms from regular intercourses.. I guess I have something wrong down there - despite feeling aroused during sex in general, down there I feel nothing really pleasant. I sort of feel just the mechanical part of sex there. It's not painful, neither unpleasant, just... nothing. I might have some nerves not working there or something  and I can have only clitoral orgasm, never can have one with a proper vibrator.



> I've had to learn masturbate in front of him, which was difficult. Not because he wanted me to or it did anything for him but because I can't deal with not being included any more. It's bad enough not feeling wanted but then to have him just get off and go to sleep. That's just too much. I can't anymore.


You know, I used to think that the "denying" part feels worse in a marriage. But now I realise I felt only guilt, and nothing else. While the higher drive part gets all sorts of physical and phycological discomfort.. Are you going to do anything with your situation, or the introduced remedy (you masturbating in front of him) is satisfactory enough for now?..


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Zouz said:


> It is really interesting to me to know that a women who is assumed to be ld can get an o by masturbating.the way I see it is that either she doesn't have self esteem or her partner is unable to push right trigger


I probably misexplained myself - I can get only clitoral orgasm in masturbation/ in the gym. I never had what is called "vaginal" orgasm - I seem to be numb down there 



> If by standing with your high heels even wearing a bugs bunny pijama he is not aroused then his head is broken


Well, he is aroused with that  we are now working on developing normal no-sexy-bunny-in-the-bedroom sexual desire in him back (he used to have very high desire for me before I started denying him) - so far it's been just 4 days since I started chasing him, but yesterday he initiated himself (hurray!)


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Is the truth you want to be sexual again just long enough to get pregnant?


No, because as I said above - we cannot conceive naturally with my hubby due to his vasectomy. For me getting pregnant lies somewhere behind doctor's consultancy room doors (unsexy place, tbh).
I want to be sexual to make sure my husband is happy(-ier), probably to wake up something new in myself, and make sure if we do get a child - for he could live in a normal family. For me sex is not a chore, I enjoy it even without the climax, but do need to concentrate on initiating it/ not rejecting my husband, as it always seems of little importance to me.
If we don't happen to have a child and eventually will divorce over it (sad but still possible perspective) - well, I will anyway have to have sex to get a child with someone else. Why not train now


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

john117 said:


> A lot of stories have been posted here; I should add the story of my late brother to the mix.
> After a decade of infertility treatment they managed to get pregnant (interesting medical problems on both, esp his Crohn's / IBS medications. While their fertility issues occupied their mind the Crohn's / IBS turned into colon cancer (nationalized health care be damned) and he passed away at 50 leaving a 3 year old son.


I'm so sorry to hear about your brother John. Both elder brothers of my husband had cancer recently, and I am sort of worried for mine - we tried ruling out all the symptoms he had health wise, and that's one of the reasons I decided not to give him hormonal stimulation for our IVFs (another reason is that I hardly believed it would help anyway). Maybe I will say the wrong thing, but your brother leaving a 3 year old son sounds better to me than your brother not leaving anyone..



> Any relationship or human behavior should not be driven primarily by a single motivation.


True. That's why I'm trying to learn to be of more pleasure for my man to make him more comfortable and happier in our marriage. Apart from desire for the child, I have the desire for normal family in general. Where no one suffers.


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## Vanille (Dec 13, 2014)

I don't think your problem is a low sex drive, I think it's partially the age difference but mostly all of the stress about having children and making that happen. You seem very positive and willing to do things for him and make him happy and he seems like a nice guy. I think you guys are going to be okay, you don't have any major issues. Good luck with everything!


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

Vanille said:


> I don't think your problem is a low sex drive, I think it's partially the age difference but mostly all of the stress about having children and making that happen. You seem very positive and willing to do things for him and make him happy and he seems like a nice guy. I think you guys are going to be okay, you don't have any major issues. Good luck with everything!


Thank you for your opinion dear  you obviously seem new to the forum because your opinion is sort of the kindest)) *which is a good thing!* thanks again)


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I did used to really believe I was broken or had nerve damage, like you are saying. Because I'd had lots of sex and no orgasms ever. However I now believe that I'm a normal woman with a normal response. Most women can't have vaginal orgasm. Most women need clitoral stimulation and from what I read the average is 25 minutes from the start of stimulation to orgasm. 

Mind you, I've never met any of those average women on THIS BOARD of course! Ha ha.

My dh has been able to get me to orgasm with manual and oral stimulation but it does take the 25 minutes. I have my own issues, mentally, because I don't believe he wants to do it that long and so it becomes stressful. There are other times I'm very relaxed and it still never happens. This is why sometimes it's just better and less complicated for me to do it myself. Although, as I said, it has been difficult to introduce this into my sex life. It's not like in the movies, learning to orgasm with a partner.

I have an emotional need for sex and have a higher drive than my dh but have had 22 years of sex and less than 20 orgasms during all those times. 

Just pointing out that you might be a more regular woman than you think. I don't think you are broken any more than I was, perhaps there is just a big world of sexual feelings and exploration that you haven't been introduced to yet. Perhaps you will sadly discover that you and your dh don't have a good sexual chemistry, even if the rest of the marriage is good. Perhaps with someone else your experiences would be very different. (Sadly at the end of the day I think this is the bottom line with myself and my dh.)


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Terracota said:


> No, because as I said above - we cannot conceive naturally with my hubby due to his vasectomy. For me getting pregnant lies somewhere behind doctor's consultancy room doors (unsexy place, tbh).
> I want to be sexual to make sure my husband is happy(-ier), probably to wake up something new in myself, and make sure if we do get a child - for he could live in a normal family. For me sex is not a chore, I enjoy it even without the climax, but do need to concentrate on initiating it/ not rejecting my husband, as it always seems of little importance to me.
> For me a suggestion of having sex was always like equal to suggesting to wash the floors or any other type of house work, with the only difference that if I do wash the floors from time to time in real life, then for sex I never seemed to have the proper time, I was always busy with something else.Why not train now


"For me a suggestion of having sex was always like equal to suggesting to wash the floors or any other type of house work, with the only difference that if I do wash the floors from time to time in real life, then for sex I never seemed to have the proper time, I was always busy with something else."

Above, you say sex isn't a chore to you but your initial post on the subject said it's like washing floors. 

"For me a suggestion of having sex was always like equal to suggesting to wash the floors or any other type of house work, with the only difference that if I do wash the floors from time to time in real life, then for sex I never seemed to have the proper time, I was always busy with something else."

I'd say the odds of your husband divorcing because he doesn't want a sexless marriage are pretty high. Right above, you come right out and admit you want to make yourself have sex primarily so you can get a baby.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*MissScarlett*, thank you for you reassuring words  I sent you a PM.

*unbelievable*, oh please don't mix all in one ball  


> Above, you say sex isn't a chore to you but your initial post on the subject said it's like washing floors.


In my initial post I compared sex to washing the floors in terms of priority list in my head. For me it does seem messy before we start. But once we start - it feels quite pleasant. So when we actually start, especially since I'm set on initiating it now, I make sure I'm turned on BEFORE I even come near my husband, for it didn't feel like a chore (for neither of us). If you want, getting turned on is sort of a chore, cause I need to plan it and work on it, but once it's done - it's done and works fine 



> Right above, you come right out and admit you want to make yourself have sex primarily so you can get a baby.


I did explain that earlier in our life with my husband I was more concentrated on sex because I was looking for the baby. Since then we have had a 100% medical proof that his vasectomy is not reversible and so even if I die riding him every night we will *not* conceive a child anyway. So I would say me wanting to fix our sex life now more proves that I want my husband for something else in my life as well, apart from having the child. I know now that having sex with my husband will not give us a baby, but I still want to make sex to him.



> I'd say the odds of your husband divorcing because he doesn't want a sexless marriage are pretty high.


Whether we divorce or not is an open question, but it is as open as for almost everyone on this board.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It really does sound like you've manipulated your husband. You pretended to enjoy sex to the point of faking orgasms. You've only been married 2.5 years and he's already been essentially cut off. He thought he was marrying a sexual being and it turns out he was duped into marrying someone who has admittedly never been interested in sex and who had no empathy for people who had a healthy, normal, sex drive. You thought they were exaggerating. Only going by what you have written, it sounds like your husband is the victim of a very huge fraud. When you agreed to marry this man, what was your primary motivation? If he left you tomorrow, how would your life change? I can sympathize with people who get married in good faith but their sex drive later takes a dive. I have a hard time understanding people who know they have little interest in sex but they get married to a normally functioning sexual being, reduce the frequency of sex to almost nothing but still expect 100% faithfulness from their deceived spouse. If I had been wounded in war and sex was not a serious possibility for me, I can't imagine faking it long enough to lure some innocent woman to the marriage alter and then just watching her twitch in misery for the rest of her days.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*unbelievable*
Before writing harsh replies it would be useful to read the presented information more attentively 
1. I do not fake orgasms.
2. I agree that my husband is the victim (as you describe it). And I'm trying to help him (and myself) out.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

" I never had an orgasm with a man (first I was faking it, then I started honestly saying it, cause I did get pleasant feelings out of sex anyway, just not an orgasm)."


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*unbelievable*
So where does it say I faked orgasms with my husband? I stopped doing it 6 years ago, at least 2 years before I met my husband.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok. You have never liked sex and never saw the importance of it, but you got married to a man you describe as "HD" and he naturally ended up having sex only four times a year before the ink was quite dry on his marriage certificate. Did you make it clear before the marriage that this would be his future and if you had done so, do you believe he would have married you anyway? Why shouldn't he logically expect that next year will be maybe twice and beyond that, a choice to stay with you in his eyes would be a choice to be celibate? Only married 2.5 years, this guy is left frustrated and disappointed about 99% of the time while you get your way (no sex) 99% of the time. How can you retrain him to trust you and to see you as a partner instead of the person who rejects him 99% of the time? I know I come off as a bit harsh but I doubt your husband is going to speak to you so bluntly and I doubt I'm telling you anything that isn't going through his mind several times a day. To fix this it might be important for you to understand how deeply devastating and enraging it is to be on the receiving end of such treatment. By withholding, you essentially have taught him that you're his enemy, that his needs don't matter to you, that you can't be trusted, that you aren't a source of comfort, intimacy, or support.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would consider the above words at face value. Even man-children like me who would like nothing more than a day alone with their man-toys and a gallon of Starbucks get ticked off once in a while.

It's not about sex as wisely pointed out above. It's about not having your lovely husband turn into someone like me or my fellow checked outs... It's not good for us and even worse for our partners.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

We are speculating about what is in your husbands head. Some of the speculation rings true, based on my own experience, but your husbands is of course quite different and unknown to me.



What has he said recently and in the past about sex in your relationship?



Have you told him why you have this sudden interest in sex?



Has he asked what is going on?


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*unbelievable*, *john117*,
I do appreciate all opinions and critics, and some of them are quite enlightening (I might be very bright academically, but I now see myself to be a total zero in relationship psychology). 
I agreed that I made my husband a victim. I guess it will sound to you as a joke, but:
1. I never knew there were LD men. I never met them. So I thought that most HD men are married to LD women. You can think I grew up in the jungle, ok  I thought I will make it up to being an "average" wife, but I didn't, at least not in my understanding of it. And I wasn't planning on having no sex with him after the marriage, it wasn't my coward plan. It might seem the salt of the joke: I actually hoped living together and not needing to run anywhere will help us develop something in me and have a proper relationship.
2. My husband might not be the highest drive, but he is definitely higher drive than me. Sorry for not measuring in globally.
3. Whether he would have married me knowing that's what he is going to get - I don't know. If we both had known what we know now, probably we would have decided together on leaving it just as a nice affair. But we are married. I know he is not going to cheat on me (I don't know why tho) neither he will file a divorce just because of sex. So I'm not trying to change anything out of blind fear to lose him. I can keep carrying on as I am and we will live at least another 10 years in a pretty maintained boring marriage. I don't know what will be going on in my husband's head then, maybe nothing nice, but he will rarely pour it out on me.

You suggest me divorcing him now? not to torture any more?


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

So, what is your plan to fix this? What's he supposed to do with all the distrust and resentment he's (no doubt) built up? You can't fake it or just pretend for the rest of your life. I know you want this to change but how are you planning on making the change?


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## Observer (Aug 23, 2011)

My advice would be for you two to explore sex on a different level. You are so distracted by the "other" things..remove them. Candles, oils, use your vibrator with him...explore tantric...

Me and my sbtw have long sessions, lots of massaging, kissing,...PASSION! Of course we have quickies once in a while, but that mainly helps her with her orgasim for the next day. That is when her vibrator comes out and and I use my mouth and fingers to help her get there. 

You are looking at sex like a job, when really it's extremly pleasurable. The more and better you do it, the better it is. Once you are having a good sexual experience, you will look forward to it all day. 

That answers the "sex part of it" but keep in mind, men are different than women, I advise you to learn more about men. There are a ton of good books that illustrate mens needs versus womens.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Terracotta
Ignoring all of the difficult problems and instead looking at the easy ones - orgasms

If you can orgasm with a vibrator, there is no reason not to include it in your lovemaking. This is not at all uncommon and works well for many couples. The only real downside is that it can desensitize you, but if you already can't orgasm with your husband, that isn't really a problem.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Terra,
You're doing great. 

The one thing I suggest you 'learn / benefit from' when reading Unbelievables posts is this: 

Most men, in long term sexually starved marriages, end up feeling the way he does. Angry and bitter. 

His comments to you, are what he actually WANTS to say to his wife, but doesn't. 

That said, you are approaching this part of your marriage in a very positive manner.




Terracota said:


> *unbelievable*
> Before writing harsh replies it would be useful to read the presented information more attentively
> 1. I do not fake orgasms.
> 2. I agree that my husband is the victim (as you describe it). And I'm trying to help him (and myself) out.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Un,

You're a smart guy. And better than this. Gentle suggestion: go read each of Terracotta's posts in this thread. She IS making a conscious effort. She IS trying. Is beginning to make progress.

You are being hostile to someone who is actually doing exactly what you wish Mrs. Un would do. 




unbelievable said:


> So, what is your plan to fix this? What's he supposed to do with all the distrust and resentment he's (no doubt) built up? You can't fake it or just pretend for the rest of your life. I know you want this to change but how are you planning on making the change?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think Unbelievable's perspective on this is valid. I believe he is saying things that have probably crossed Terracota's husbands mind, whether or not he has directly expressed them to Terracota.

I can speak first hand that when you feel trapped in a relationship of this sort, you can develop a great deal of anger. It takes a very conscious and methodical process to let that go. 

I think it also takes a lot of understanding on the part of the person on the receiving end of the anger. Even if the couple is committed to changing course, they will not execute perfectly. 

The same scenario of lack of interest/rejection will play out again from time to time, like it does in most normal relationships. When this happens, the rejected partner needs to be able to see the big picture (that his spouse is trying to do better) in order to treat it as an isolated incident. By the same token, the (formerly) rejecting spouse needs to have some understanding of the anger/sensitivity that the rejected spouse feels.

It is not easy to come to terms with this anger for either person, but I believe it has to be acknowledged.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

MissScarlett said:


> Most women need clitoral stimulation and from what I read the average is 25 minutes from the start of stimulation to orgasm.
> 
> Mind you, I've never met any of those average women on THIS BOARD of course! Ha ha.
> 
> My dh has been able to get me to orgasm with manual and oral stimulation but it does take the 25 minutes. I have my own issues, mentally, because I don't believe he wants to do it that long and so it becomes stressful.


:iagree:

Normal. And I also get stressed because I don't believe my husband wants to do it that long. 

Like she said. It's quite possible that you just aren't getting the required stimulation that you need. Orgasms can be work. Mine sure don't come naturally all the time like some of the other ladies on this board.


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## TheCuriousWife (Jan 28, 2013)

Found this article. 

Bustle


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Anon,
Why is it ok to treat an LD spouse whose actively 'in recovery' the same way you would treat an LD spouse who is continuing to be selfish and is rationalizing it? 

And why is it ok to be aggressive with a stranger - and not assertive with your spouse. 

As for feeling trapped - that's interesting. I've never felt trapped. Not once in 25 years. 

Monogamy is both a gift and a commitment that I've given to myself AND M2. We've had 4-5 conversations about the basis for that commitment during our 25 years together. 

Provided she is healthy, M2 is free to take a break from sex whenever she wants provided she accepts that during said time I will be taking a break from monogamy. 

When she was morning sick, etc. that was/is/would be a whole different story. In sickness and in health means something to me. 

I honestly believe it's short sighted to do any of the following:
- Pressure your spouse to have sex when they clearly don't want to
- Leave them because they want to take a break from sex
- Expect your partner to allow you to force them into celibacy by refusing sex and insisting they continue to forsake others

Like I said I don't feel trapped. 

I'm sure that there are a subset of females who find this mindset offensive. They have this model of: monogamy or divorce 

But really that's not my path. M2 knows how this works. If she doesnt want to do THAT with me, and can't tolerate an open marriage, than SHE can leave ME. And yes - that would be her leaving me over sex. Not over cheating/lying. Because I would be completely open about my activities. 

Your only trapped if you see yourself as a victim. 

http://www.mathworks.com/matlabcentral/fileexchange/screenshots/9071/original.jpg



QUOTE=Anon1111;11241858]I think Unbelievable's perspective on this is valid. I believe he is saying things that have probably crossed Terracota's husbands mind, whether or not he has directly expressed them to Terracota.

I can speak first hand that when you feel trapped in a relationship of this sort, you can develop a great deal of anger. It takes a very conscious and methodical process to let that go. 

I think it also takes a lot of understanding on the part of the person on the receiving end of the anger. Even if the couple is committed to changing course, they will not execute perfectly. 

The same scenario of lack of interest/rejection will play out again from time to time, like it does in most normal relationships. When this happens, the rejected partner needs to be able to see the big picture (that his spouse is trying to do better) in order to treat it as an isolated incident. By the same token, the (formerly) rejecting spouse needs to have some understanding of the anger/sensitivity that the rejected spouse feels.

It is not easy to come to terms with this anger for either person, but I believe it has to be acknowledged.[/QUOTE]


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> So, what is your plan to fix this? What's he supposed to do with all the distrust and resentment he's (no doubt) built up? You can't fake it or just pretend for the rest of your life. I know you want this to change but how are you planning on making the change?


Well, your question made me take a break to write an answer. I wish I could say "Well, here is my plan!" and put on the table a strategically accurate scheme with at least 3 back-up variants. But so far I hardly even wish I could know what I am doing at all. I know I'm doing it wrong and awkwardly, but at least I am doing. Something. So far the short-perspective plan (for a month) is a scheduled for me sex with my husband. By "scheduled" I mean that:
1. My husband is unaware of the schedule or of its existence.
2. By "scheduled" I mean that on these days I take special time and effort to get myself in the mood, watch porno, tart myself up, or whatever else I consider useful on that particular day to be in the proper mood by the time my husband comes home.

If you ask about the density of "appointments" - well, so far it's 4 stable a week (including bj) plus I do not turn my husband down if he decided to initiate himself (been only once yet tho). I foresee 2 opportunities for this month for myself to reschedule or skip the "appointment" if I do feel bad, but only twice. So it leaves us with at least 14 sexes in 4 weeks. That's more than we had in the whole past year. It might sound ridiculous that i had to document it so precisely, but so far I don't know any other way for it. I damn wish I were the sexy beast vamp-woman who can make her man come just by looking at him, but unfortunately I am not. So far we go according to the plan.

As to the final destination of how I see us in the future, I have to quote a message from another thread by *alexm* about his current wife, as I couldn't put it better:


> My wife has very little interest in sex, just like yours. But here's the kicker: we actually have sex. Not as often as I'd like, but certainly more than the once a month (if that) that you're getting, and more than the twice a month (if I was lucky) that I was getting in my previous marriage. And she's into it, even if she has to consciously make herself. She does not have urges like the rest of us do. If I wasn't around, sex wouldn't even register with her. But she does it for us. Not for me. For US. Because she loves me. Because she loves US.


You might ask now about my motivation - what will make me stick to it. Well, I think I could name a few of the reasons, but the main one is quite simple: if I cannot make it work with my husband (who gives me EVERY opportunity to do so), it means I will never have a happy man near me. Because I will never have regular sexual life with any man near me. I don't want to know that my man is more unhappy with me that without me.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

TheCuriousWife said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Normal. And I also get stressed because I don't believe my husband wants to do it that long.
> 
> Like she said. It's quite possible that you just aren't getting the required stimulation that you need. Orgasms can be work. Mine sure don't come naturally all the time like some of the other ladies on this board.


Thank you (and for the article!). I especially value inputs from women in my thread because they make me feel more normal than I consider myself now  I remember only one episode when (not my husband, before him) my bf tried to "give me one", but about 15 minutes later I was still nowhere near it and I felt that he is a way bored down there. That was embarrassing for me and just reassured me that O. in sex are not for me.. I don't think I tried it ever after, even though my husband was always willing to. Thank you, I will reconsider myself in it now.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*Observer*, *richardsharpe*,
Thank you for the advice, I will try to work on it.. it feels a little embarrassing though (I don't know why, I know there is nothing wrong with that). Thank you 

*MEM11363* thank you for your support  I do appreciate every opinion tho, even harsh ones - I'm stable enough not to cry from them  and as *Anon1111* pointed out, *unbelievable* probably does say what my husband thinks but will never tell me. It's good to know the amount of anger my laziness in sex can provoke in my husband, as it persuades me even more that I'm trying to do the right and important thing. As for occasional misread statements - I think it's pure Internet communication problem.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

PieceOfSky said:


> What has he said recently and in the past about sex in your relationship?


In the past, when we were dating and just got married, he described it very positively both on quality and frequency (so he is probably no the highest drive as we have never been rabbits ). When we were on our dry period he didn't really say anything apart from "I understand, don't worry". But I guess I was so depressed with the news about his non-reversable vasectomy that he would say anything just to stop me crying or to make sure I do not burst into tears again just from his words. Yes I was such a monster.



> Has he asked what is going on?





> Have you told him why you have this sudden interest in sex?


Well, he did ask what's happened and why I suddenly changed.
I tried to explain the whole thing to him, but since I don't have it clear to myself yet (as you can see in my posts here I find a new additional reason every lovely day) I guess it sounded pretty messy and unstructured to him (which is very opposite to my normal way of speaking). So I decided not to confuse him too much and just said that we had a difficult crushing year with all the fertility treatments, but that I think I finally came out of the circle and that now I don't think our problems should exclude sex. He agreed and didn't ask more questions, just said he is very glad.. But I do notice positive "unconscious" changes in him already


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

MEM11363 said:


> Anon,
> Why is it ok to treat an LD spouse whose actively 'in recovery' the same way you would treat an LD spouse who is continuing to be selfish and is rationalizing it?
> 
> 
> ...


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Your plan sounds really good and your reasons for it sound great, too. If I could offer a suggestion, for what it's worth. What the guy is missing most is intimacy. We say we miss the sex but what we really miss the most is feeling close, respected, valued, and appreciated. The guy could get himself off if that was his primary problem. He can't make himself feel loved. You might try actually writing down three or four things every morning that you love and appreciate about the guy. Next, write down three or four things you will do that day to show your love. Doesn't always have to be sex or even related to sex. See, everyone has to justify to themselves everything they do. When you push him away, you have to justify that to yourself. Every time you do something nice for the guy, you reinforce in your own mind that he deserves niceness. After a while, it will become a natural part of you, just like exercise feels unnatural and unpleasant at first but eventually becomes a huge part of one's life. I think if the heart and mind get retrained, the female parts will naturally follow. Everyone has some good qualities, so it shouldn't be hard to find a few things each day to admire about the guy. We can train ourselves to love our spouse or to despise them just by what we choose to focus on. 
I'd start my focus there instead of on the actual sex. If he is treated with indifference throughout the day, you initiated sex won't seem natural or genuine to him. If he's received twenty little non-sexual loving acts throughout the week and you show up apparently ready for sex, it'll be a lot more natural and believable. Even if for some reason you or he can't do the actual sex thing at that moment, you both still have a whole week's worth of loving, intimate contact, so he''s less likely to feel rejected and you'd be less likely to feel pressured. Little things mean a lot. I love it when my wife brings me a cup of coffee or when she comes to give me a kiss before I go to work. She does something special to the wash that makes my T shirts smell really nice. If you make the goal intimacy instead of sex, you'll have a lot more choices and opportunities and a lot less pressure.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

QFT

This is beautifully written and absolutely true. 




unbelievable said:


> Your plan sounds really good and your reasons for it sound great, too. If I could offer a suggestion, for what it's worth. What the guy is missing most is intimacy. We say we miss the sex but what we really miss the most is feeling close, respected, valued, and appreciated. The guy could get himself off if that was his primary problem. He can't make himself feel loved. You might try actually writing down three or four things every morning that you love and appreciate about the guy. Next, write down three or four things you will do that day to show your love. Doesn't always have to be sex or even related to sex. See, everyone has to justify to themselves everything they do. When you push him away, you have to justify that to yourself. Every time you do something nice for the guy, you reinforce in your own mind that he deserves niceness. After a while, it will become a natural part of you, just like exercise feels unnatural and unpleasant at first but eventually becomes a huge part of one's life. I think if the heart and mind get retrained, the female parts will naturally follow. Everyone has some good qualities, so it shouldn't be hard to find a few things each day to admire about the guy. We can train ourselves to love our spouse or to despise them just by what we choose to focus on.
> I'd start my focus there instead of on the actual sex. If he is treated with indifference throughout the day, you initiated sex won't seem natural or genuine to him. If he's received twenty little non-sexual loving acts throughout the week and you show up apparently ready for sex, it'll be a lot more natural and believable. Even if for some reason you or he can't do the actual sex thing at that moment, you both still have a whole week's worth of loving, intimate contact, so he''s less likely to feel rejected and you'd be less likely to feel pressured. Little things mean a lot. I love it when my wife brings me a cup of coffee or when she comes to give me a kiss before I go to work. She does something special to the wash that makes my T shirts smell really nice. If you make the goal intimacy instead of sex, you'll have a lot more choices and opportunities and a lot less pressure.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

Of course he isn't jumping up and down. A man can only take so much rejection before he just stops caring.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

mace85 said:


> Of course he isn't jumping up and down. A man can only take so much rejection before he just stops caring.


If he's down to four times a year, it's probably all he can muster just to keep coming home. I often suspect that when sex is serially denied almost every other manifestation of caring is also withheld.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

mace85 said:


> Of course he isn't jumping up and down. A man can only take so much rejection before he just stops caring.


:iagree:


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I imagine the Jews in Auschwitz eventually quit caring about those who held them in captivity and exploited their labor. American slaves probably lost a lot of affection for their slave owners. Why would anyone expect affection in return for abuse, fraud, and exploitation? Treating people like they are less than human beings is really pretty awful and the logical consequence is a mountain of resentment and distrust, not merely a loss of caring.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Wow, that is quite an effort. Bravo. At some point you should make him aware of the schedule, 4 times a week is > than every other night which may actually be more than he wants believe it or not.

I think in general all of us with a greater desire than our partners when queried how often we would like sex will say "every day". In actuality if the opportunity is there on a sustained basis that may be unsustainable. There have been a couple of rare occurrences in > 15 years where my wife has suddenly gotten a sex drive briefly for whatever reason and has come at me say once or twice a day for a few days running - 4 or 5 days. For the one that was a day or two longer I do remember thinking that if she got horny one more time I might have to turn her down. But alas, it past:sleeping:. I am older than your hubby so maybe I wouldn't have felt this at his age but right now my ideal frequency would be once or twice on the weekend and once sometime during the week. I could do more I think but with that I'd be perfectly content. 




Terracota said:


> 1. My husband is unaware of the schedule or of its existence.
> 2. By "scheduled" I mean that on these days I take special time and effort to get myself in the mood, watch porno, tart myself up, or whatever else I consider useful on that particular day to be in the proper mood by the time my husband comes home.
> 
> If you ask about the density of "appointments" - well, so far it's 4 stable a week (including bj) plus I do not turn my husband down if he decided to initiate himself (been only once yet tho). I foresee 2 opportunities for this month for myself to reschedule or skip the "appointment" if I do feel bad, but only twice. So it leaves us with at least 14 sexes in 4 weeks. That's more than we had in the whole past year. It might sound ridiculous that i had to document it so precisely, but so far I don't know any other way for it. I damn wish I were the sexy beast vamp-woman who can make her man come just by looking at him, but unfortunately I am not. So far we go according to the plan.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*unbelievable* thank you for you detailed suggestion above about intimacy apart from sex, I am going to implement it (already started  husband likes).



unbelievable said:


> Why would anyone expect affection in return for abuse, fraud, and exploitation?


You might be surprised, but I think many LD women after a long time of rejecting actually still think their husband should desire them madly. Like 2-3 months after our dry season started my husband stopped waking up with erection. I was sincerely offended  so it's like "I don't want you, but don't you dare not want me!" kind of thing. Irrational, but true to some extent. I hardly believe that if a denied husband tells his wife "I don't want you any more, you are unattractive to me from now on!" I doubt she will feel relieved.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

mace85 said:


> Of course he isn't jumping up and down. A man can only take so much rejection before he just stops caring.


Do you think its irreversible then?


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

*anonmd*
Thank you for your opinion  I do think we might adjust the number of times according to my husband's actual drive (as I turn out to be not really away of his drive), but so far he's probably so hungry that we exceed the schedule) and as *unbelievable* correctly pointed out it can get in sort of a habit for me "to be in the mood often", so the more the better for now))


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Terracota said:


> Do you think its irreversible then?



It's reversible if he's younger. Not as likely if he's older. Just a guess.

It's bit a question of mood but a question of trust.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

All based on trust. Think about the number of rejections. Was it a few times between intimacy or 50 no's for every yes. That wall of resentment went up brick by brick and comes down the same way.

And, BTW talking about a headache or how exhausted you are on the way to bed...thats a brick.


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## Terracota (Dec 10, 2014)

john117 said:


> It's reversible if he's younger. Not as likely if he's older.


Mine is on the older side I guess  bad luck  will see, I'm not sure myself whether it will work out yet. Thank you for the opinion.

*Cre8ify* mine was like a 500 of no-es for one yes, unfortunately. And the only yes-es we had were based on MY sudden idea to have sex, and hardly ever coincided with when he was trying to be active with me. A passage of self-whipping for me


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Terracota said:


> Do you think its irreversible then?





Cre8ify said:


> All based on trust. Think about the number of rejections. Was it a few times between intimacy or 50 no's for every yes. That wall of resentment went up brick by brick and comes down the same way.


I agree with this. I think resentment is a HUGE libido killer. It seriously makes you lose attraction to your partner in a big, big way.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Terracota. 
I think it depends on the person.
In my case, I was very resentful after 25 years of being almost constantly rejected. When my wife finally changed and wanted intimacy again, it only took about 2 weeks for me to get over the resentment. Just long enough to be sure that things had really changed - that it was not just another case of reminding me what we had been missing, then going back to the old ways again.

Other people will be completely different. 


Also, don't forget that he may have picked up bad habits - porn, masturbation etc that reduce his drive now. 





Terracota said:


> Do you think its irreversible then?


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

> 500 of no-es for one yes


He may be numb and calloused over to what he feels. Many men are not great at "feeling" in the first place. If he is like me, the one place he had a yearning, exposed himself and became vulnerable, the one person who warranted taking a chance--told him to take his feelings and put them back in a box...x 500.

While I admire your desire to fix this and don't want to discourage you, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons.

My wife of thirty years returned to me as she came to realize the hurt she had been dispensing. It will never be making love as I always hoped it could be. We can be affectionate, but the deeper step, the vulnerability...is a step too far for me to take.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I give you a lot of credit for trying to change things.

Your plan has a good level of frequency and an awareness that you need to regulate the excuses you allow yourself. All of this is very good.

One thing that you did not mention though which I think is just as important is more of a "soft factor". So not just the act itself, but how you act around your husband generally.

You should be frequently giving him unsolicited demonstrations of your attraction to him. 

If you are distant from him generally, the 4x a week of the actual act might seem mechanical. He will assume there is some ulterior motive for it if he does not believe it is coming from a baseline of true attraction you have for him.

So you should be finding opportunities to display your sexual interest in him whenever possible. Hugs, kisses, playful grabs, compliments on his appearance, etc. 

Also, improving your appearance but making clear you are trying to impress him is good. So dressing up for him, etc. Above all, be clear you are into him and trying to attract him. 

Also, when it comes to the act itself, it goes without saying that you need to appear way into him. Add new moves to your routine and act like you just got carried away because you find him so hot. If it appears you're just checking off something on your list it will not work.

If you do this consistently, I bet you will find his trust in you will be re-established a lot more quickly.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

This thread reminds me a little of this one from a few months back.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/212210-pain-frustration-rejected-wife.html


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Terracota said:


> john117 said:
> 
> 
> > It's reversible if he's younger. Not as likely if he's older.
> ...



Ouch! That had to hurt for him. Constant no's to guys who feel intimacy and connection to their wives that way is tantamount to you telling him you do not love him, you do not care about him or want to be close to him emotionally or physically. The hurt and resentment that builds will take a lot of love and the to undo. Keep at it and show him he means something to you. Talk is cheap. Actions speak.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Terracota said:


> *unbelievable* thank you for you detailed suggestion above about intimacy apart from sex, I am going to implement it (already started  husband likes).
> 
> 
> You might be surprised, but I think many LD women after a long time of rejecting actually still think their husband should desire them madly. Like 2-3 months after our dry season started my husband stopped waking up with erection. I was sincerely offended  so it's like "I don't want you, but don't you dare not want me!" kind of thing. Irrational, but true to some extent. I hardly believe that if a denied husband tells his wife "I don't want you any more, you are unattractive to me from now on!" I doubt she will feel relieved.


I'm hardly surprised at all when exploiters feel an illogical sense of entitlement. I believe that's a necessary component of all exploitation and abuse. Withholding very much is exploitation and it very much is abuse. That "I don't want you, you are unattractive to me" message that you would find offensive is what the victim spouses hear several times every day. It is actually more like "you are unattractive, undesirable, your needs are meaningless because you are less than human. Of all creatures on earth, you have the least value. You don't deserve human physical contact. Your needs don't matter because you don't matter. You really don't exist. I tolerate you because you (provide a paycheck, do the laundry, fill in the blank). Giving a human being messages like these every day is actually worse than murder. If one kills another's spirit it would be far kinder to just go ahead and kill their body. Is it seriously any wonder that someone who has been treated as a sub-human for months or years might not respond like a normal human when their tormentor finally treats them decently? If I spent the last 5 years beating my dog with a stick ever day and suddenly I picked up a stick with the intention of playing "fetch", what would be the dog's logical reaction? He wouldn't even know how to act in a normal dog/human relationship. To the dog, I wouldn't represent fun, I'd represent pain. Wouldn't be the dog's fault and it's beyond the dog's ability to change. The only way to change that is for me to prove that I'm his friend. Gonna take a lot of time.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Terracota said:


> Do you think its irreversible then?


Maybe not irreversible...BUT, you'll have to work at it. And by "work at it", that doesn't mean just throw sex at him a time or three and expect him to respond and instantly become Mr. perfect romance again overnight. Sex is vitally important to a man if he is to feel loved. If you deny him that over a long period of time, he is going to feel greatly UN-loved. We (men) are no different than you (women) in that we want to feel loved. We simply express and feel it differently. If our partner continually shows us we are not loved and cherished, it's a crushing blow, and one that takes some time to reverse.

Were your husband to completely abandon YOUR needs to make you feel loved...flowers, hand holding, love letters, romance, sweet nothings, helping you around the house, etc., etc., well....do you think that him buying you flowers one time, or taking you out for a romantic dinner a time or two would reverse the "neglect" or feeling of being unloved you had for years? No, of course it wouldn't.

Same applies here. He's going to want (need) to see a definite pattern of behavioral change before he allows himself to "let go" and make himself vulnerable again.

Don't just tell him you want to "make things better". Sit him down, during a romantic period, and LOOK at him. TALK to him. And just tell him..."listen...I really, seriously want to talk to you. I've deeply thought about things. I love you. I'm not going to make excuses. I don't like the road we're going down, or where it's taking us. I want to reverse this. I want us to be in love again. I want to feel the desire for you I used to feel, and I want you to desire me the way you once did. I KNOW I've screwed up. Maybe we both have. It does not matter. It does not matter where it started, or who started it, I want it to change, and I want for us to be bigger and better than that nonsense, and start over! This is not going to be a short sighted "I'll make an effort" thing on my part....I want us to be in love, screwing like bunnies because we're in love, not just now, but 10 and 20 years from now! You're the guy for me, and I WANT US TO BE HAPPY!"

You might be surprised at the response you get from such a heartfelt and meaningful conversation you get...followed up of course with ACTION. He may not "commit" to it overnight...however...in short time, if he does not again become the romantic man you want him to be after being presented with your continued HEARTFELT and MEANINGFUL efforts, well then, he may be quite the fool. BUT, don't expect him to "jump" just because you flashed some boob or threw on a sexy nightie one night. Despite what many women think...we ARE deeper than that, and we DO want the connection, commitment and romance. It is NOT all about "just getting laid". 

Sometimes it just takes one of the two people to be the "bigger person", forget about and throw out the whole "it started here" or "you did this first" thing, swallow the pride, commit to change and see the "bigger picture" to really turn things around. Been there, done that, and it paid off BIG TIME.

It is amazing to me...absolutely amazing...that women, after many times...weeks, months, YEARS, of rejecting a man for sex, that when that woman once or twice initiates, that said man then rejects them ONCE OR TWICE, and / or did not "jump at" the opportunity to have sex with them, just because she "offered up the goods" that many women can become so "butt hurt" over the "rejection", and begin to question their men, their relationship, their attractiveness, et al. How do you think HE felt all those days, weeks, years? And women want to talk about the "fragile male ego"?!!!! Come on! The greatest disservice that has ever been done to relationships is whatever it was that made women, from the time they were little girls, believe that men were "after only one thing", and that they'd put up with miles o' crap just to get that "one thing", and that the male universe was centered around that "one thing", and as such, women could treat us like CRAP, and we'd still keep coming back for more if we had just a chance at that "one thing". WRONG! (Just my own personal opinion. But I've been down "that road" too many times with the "wrong woman" to believe much differently. Thank God I've got someone now who is not that.)

Good luck. You may have a long road ahead of you. But with a little commitment and effort, it may be the most fun, exciting, emotionally and physically fulfilling "long road" you've ever been down. MAKE him fall in love with you again. You did it ONCE. You can do it AGAIN.


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## happybuddha (Aug 9, 2014)

At least you want to FIX it , My wife is so avoiding even discussing sex or our realtionship , ends up in STALE mate every time with her saying dont pressure her when there is no pressure ..LOL


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

donny64 said:


> It is amazing to me...absolutely amazing...that women, after many times...weeks, months, YEARS, of rejecting a man for sex, that when that woman once or twice initiates, that said man then rejects them ONCE OR TWICE, and / or did not "jump at" the opportunity to have sex with them, just because she "offered up the goods" that many women can become so "butt hurt" over the "rejection", and begin to question their men, their relationship, their attractiveness, et al. How do you think HE felt all those days, weeks, years? And women want to talk about the "fragile male ego"?!!!! Come on!


Men and women are completely different.

The average semi-attractive to attractive woman has likely never been rejected sexually. (I know there are exceptions, but as a general matter.) 

Even when women are dumped, they are dumped on a commitment level. If they are freely offering sex, most any guy will take it.

There is a total lack of comprehension of how it feels to be rejected on a pure sexual level.

When it finally happens to them it is a massive shock.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Anon1111
From posts by women here, it seem that women are rejected quite frequently as well. This was a surprise to me when I first heard it, but I've seen it so may places now that I believe them. 

I think HD people have such a difficult time imagining themselves being LD, that they tend to assume it is a fundamental gender thing. 






Anon1111 said:


> Men and women are completely different.
> 
> The average semi-attractive to attractive woman has likely never been rejected sexually. (I know there are exceptions, but as a general matter.)
> 
> ...


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Anon1111
> From posts by women here, it seem that women are rejected quite frequently as well. This was a surprise to me when I first heard it, but I've seen it so may places now that I believe them.
> 
> I think HD people have such a difficult time imagining themselves being LD, that they tend to assume it is a fundamental gender thing.


I definitely believe it happens to women and I believe that it is happening to the women who post here.

But I feel like it's undeniable that women as a group are far less likely to comprehend sexual rejection than men.

There is a reason why bars, clubs, etc let girls in for free. There is a reason why female strippers and prostitutes are far more common than the male version.

I don't mean to go too far off topic, but I just don't think the genders are equal in this regard. Yes there are exceptions to the norm, but they are exceptions.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

**puts on fireproof suit and settles back with popcorn**


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I think this whole business of describing people as HD/LD is bogus here, anyway. I think very few people on this forum complain that one partner wants sex every day and the other wants just once a week. Here, we typically have someone with an interest in sex partnered with someone who would rather avoid sex and do so for weeks, months, even years. That is closer to No drive than low drive. Describing their normally functioning partners as "HD" gives one the impression that their interest in sex is freakishly and unreasonably higher than that of the normal person of their age and gender.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Yet that's how we are perceived. If you're anorexic size 0 every one size 2 or more is obese.


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## gusemt (Dec 23, 2014)

Terracota said:


> Hello there,
> 
> I am 29 yo, married for 2,5 years. My husband is older than me (I'm his second marriage). He is HD, I am LD. Or I would say I was a ND - no drive. But I realised it only recently.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Un, 

Yes

That's why I prefer to use separate terms for:
- raw sex drive
- sexual desire for your partner
- emotional desire to please your partner 
- commitment to your marriage

I've been with M2 when her raw drive is very high: years 1 and 2

When her desire for me is very high: year 10 when she spontaneously went into twice a day mode and stayed there for about a year

When her emotional desire to please me was very high: every year except the two when she was in love with the other man

When I discovered that her commitment made for quite a solid safety net as her desire to please me decreased greatly: during the two years or so she was in love with someone else.

It's likely fair to say that overall I love M2 more (which is exactly the way I want it) and she NEEDS me more (which is ok).

And as part and parcel, her need for total monogamy is greater than mine. To ensure she's on safe ground M2 makes certain I am a sexually happy camper....



QUOTE=unbelievable;11299370]I think this whole business of describing people as HD/LD is bogus here, anyway. I think very few people on this forum complain that one partner wants sex every day and the other wants just once a week. Here, we typically have someone with an interest in sex partnered with someone who would rather avoid sex and do so for weeks, months, even years. That is closer to No drive than low drive. Describing their normally functioning partners as "HD" gives one the impression that their interest in sex is freakishly and unreasonably higher than that of the normal person of their age and gender.[/QUOTE]


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Richard,

Out good friends and neighbors are:
- Early 50's
- Very fit and attractive (she's an 8.5+)
- Married for 20+ years

About 2.5 years ago he totally stopped having sex with her. 

She is very hurt and upset. Has asked him repeatedly what's wrong. His response: everything is fine (total denial of issue)

As to how tomgs were before that - I have no idea. Maybe she rejected him a lot. 

All I know is that he appears to be 'done' having sex with her. 

M2 and I both think his behavior is cruel and unjustifiable. But there you have it....





richardsharpe said:


> Good evening Anon1111
> From posts by women here, it seem that women are rejected quite frequently as well. This was a surprise to me when I first heard it, but I've seen it so may places now that I believe them.
> 
> I think HD people have such a difficult time imagining themselves being LD, that they tend to assume it is a fundamental gender thing.


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## HDsocal (Nov 19, 2010)

I agree with Un, what he is needing is intimacy, passion AND sex. Just the sex without the intimacy and passion is almost meaningless.

He has developed some way of coping, a way of keeping the resentment and anger from consuming him. It will take sincere actions to BEGIN for him to trust you again and to let down the protection he has built up. One night of great sex wont do that, but sincere empathy, with real actions will begin the heeling.

I encourage you, you are taking steps my W hasn't





unbelievable said:


> Your plan sounds really good and your reasons for it sound great, too. If I could offer a suggestion, for what it's worth. What the guy is missing most is intimacy. We say we miss the sex but what we really miss the most is feeling close, respected, valued, and appreciated. The guy could get himself off if that was his primary problem. He can't make himself feel loved. You might try actually writing down three or four things every morning that you love and appreciate about the guy. Next, write down three or four things you will do that day to show your love. Doesn't always have to be sex or even related to sex. See, everyone has to justify to themselves everything they do. When you push him away, you have to justify that to yourself. Every time you do something nice for the guy, you reinforce in your own mind that he deserves niceness. After a while, it will become a natural part of you, just like exercise feels unnatural and unpleasant at first but eventually becomes a huge part of one's life. I think if the heart and mind get retrained, the female parts will naturally follow. Everyone has some good qualities, so it shouldn't be hard to find a few things each day to admire about the guy. We can train ourselves to love our spouse or to despise them just by what we choose to focus on.
> I'd start my focus there instead of on the actual sex. If he is treated with indifference throughout the day, you initiated sex won't seem natural or genuine to him. If he's received twenty little non-sexual loving acts throughout the week and you show up apparently ready for sex, it'll be a lot more natural and believable. Even if for some reason you or he can't do the actual sex thing at that moment, you both still have a whole week's worth of loving, intimate contact, so he''s less likely to feel rejected and you'd be less likely to feel pressured. Little things mean a lot. I love it when my wife brings me a cup of coffee or when she comes to give me a kiss before I go to work. She does something special to the wash that makes my T shirts smell really nice. If you make the goal intimacy instead of sex, you'll have a lot more choices and opportunities and a lot less pressure.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

Terra-

Are you absolutely sure that he cannot attempt another reversal? I say this because I went through a vasectomy and had my wife change her mind and decide she wanted more children. My first reversal was a failure, absolutely no production. However, 6 months later we made a 2nd attempt and I am now fully "functioning" - on the high end of all "norms" by analysis. There are many steps to vasectomy reversals that can be taken, so if he hasn't had several attempts they have most likely not exhausted all options. 

Jon


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## Pooh Bear (Dec 28, 2014)

Terracota said:


> Well, there were 2 incidents. But to explain it fully I need to explain first why our dry season started.
> My husband had a vasectomy in his first marriage, and had a reversal after getting on with me. The dry season started after we got the results that the reversal failed. I sort of lost any interest in sex with him as it anyway couldn't give me what I perhaps wanted most from the marriage - a child. Besides, as I am a young woman without kids and without obvious health problems, for me it meant the choice - either we divorce, or I have to go through the hells of IVF. I was crying for about half a year after the news.
> Half a year later I pulled myself together and decided to do something - I was not ready to divorce, so we went for IVF. It failed completely. I cried for another 2 months. Then I moved on and went for another program. Failed again. Cried for 3 days. The last one was a month ago.
> That's the sad part of the story. Now the cheering one about what made me realise about sex (even though I realised it only half a year after the actual incident).
> ...


It doesn't sound like you're LD at all. It sounds like your p***ed because he can't give you want you want more than anything - a child. Nothing to squelch the sex drive like anger. It could also rev it up but it all depends on the person and the situation. 

I'm so sorry about the failed IVF's. I did IVF also. I could only do it once. I was devastated after it failed the first time. 

If you want to make the marriage work it seems like you should go to marriage counseling. Otherwise, you have to think about whether you really want to make it work. 

And do you truly have OCD or are you just really clean and like making lists? I actually do have OCD so I get somewhat sensitive to people using it as a term to signify that they are really organized or clean people.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Terracota, as you know, I'm married to a LD wife with OCD, like you, although her OCD is different. I wished she realized too how important sex is for me and instigated changes, like you are doing.

As the man on the other side of the barricades, I can only suggest that he has checked out of the marriage. As someone said before, he is probably resenting the fact that you didn't act on it before. Sure, you have OCD, but you have a brain too and can prioritize. Basically, he feels he is second choice. Now, you are trying, but he's developed a defence mechanism and doesn't want to let his guard down. Why should he? It takes time to get to a place where you feel inner peace and you don't have to deal with the sex issue any more. Why should he put all this into jeopardy for something which could be just a flash in pan? Why should he believe you?

The fact is that you marriage is kaput. Deny a man sex for long enough and he will check out or will find someone who gives it to him.

Why are you two still married? I'm staying for the kids, otherwise I would be out like a shot...


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