# New and desperate for advice



## MamaOfTwo24

Good Morning everyone! I'm new and at the point now where I have no where to turn. Any and all advice will be welcome.

Here's my story:

I'm 29 (30 in a month), Have been with my now husband since I was 18, married for the past 4.5 years (he's 8 years older than me). We have a house and two kids together, 7 & 3. When my husband and I first started dating, I made it perfectly clear to him (it may have even been our first date) that there is one thing, above cheating, that I will never, ever tolerate and that is drugs (namely cocaine) because I knew he had been into it before we started dating. Above all else, that is one thing that I will not have crossed and I will leave if you do it. I was 18, young, naive, first serious relationship, etc etc. 

Fast forward a few months (literally, only months) and I knew it was going on. I would ask him about it and he would flip out, make me seem like a crazy person for even asking. This went on for years. About once a week/once every two weeks. 

Fast forward to three years into our relationship (I know, I should have never stayed, but again - young & naive), I get pregnant with our first child. Still know it's going on, still "accusing", I knew it was happening, but didn't have proof. I got sick of "nagging" and eventually stopped asking (basically pushing it to the back of my head, even though I knew it was going on). When our daughter was 2, he proposed. I said yes (again, young & naive & now a child together). 

A year later, we were married and bought a house shortly thereafter. Still know it's going on, still asking him about it. I'm now to the point where I actually FEEL like a crazy person. (I must make clear; I had found things as well; baggies, lines, razor blades one 6 different occasions, so it wasn't only in my head) 

A year later, I get pregnant with our second. While pregnant, they find through ultrasound that our son has a tumor on his lung and he will need surgery immediately after being born or it will grow and push his heart out of the way and it would kill him. We were back and forth to the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (we live an hour away) once a week until he was born. After he was born, I decided I was going to take some time off of work and be home with them. He had surgery at 5 weeks old. (let me clarify, he was FINE after the surgery, they removed the tumor and there are no other problems). This time off, was HARD for us financially. Our middle class income had been split and we had a brand new mortgage, so it was tough. When our son is 18 months old, I decide to go back to work. (still new it was going on at least every Thursday when he was with his friends) 

Fast forward until October 2013, we had some friends over for dinner and him and his one friend went down into my family room and did coke. I knew they did, I could tell and it confirmed all of the feelings that I had for years prior. The next day, I call his friend on the phone and ask them if they did it. (Because I had already asked my husband repeatedly) He said yes. I call my husband and ask him the same. He did not respond and it took him HOURS to finally admit that he did it, but when he did, he did tell me that he had been doing it for years. My world came crashing down, but not because he had lied (I knew he was lying) but because he made me out to be a complete psycho every time I brought it up. I should have left right then and there, but I didn't. Now, here we are almost a year later - I don't think he's done it, but how can I be sure? - we decide we are going to work on fixing things. I've tried my hardest. We've gone to counseling for the past few months (dropped thousands on that) and I cannot get past it. I want a divorce. I don't love him anymore, I feel nothing but resentment. I've been lied to, literally, my entire adult life (18-29) by the one person that I trusted with my whole heart and soul. And now I want out, I tried to get past it and over it and I can't. I've done research on kids & divorce and I've come to terms that it will be hard. They are my first priority and will continue to be. 

Thoughts? Advice? I'm sorry this is so long.


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## Thor

This has been a nuclear boundary for you since the beginning. Doing coke is not something you ever agreed to being ok.

The fact that you stuck your head in the sand for years does not erase that boundary, nor does it take away your right to leave him now for it. You have the right to your boundaries. You have the right to stop putting up with things you put up with before.

So don't think you are somehow obligated to not divorce because you didn't leave before.

But I think the end of your post is the most telling. The lying has killed your love for him. The lying turns out to be a deal breaker for you, more so than even the cocaine use. I agree with your assessment (though you didn't say it directly) that his lying to you for years has revealed a truth about his character which is beyond your ability to accept. The fact that someone would lie to you and gaslight you (try to make you disbelieve yourself) for years is a terrible thing to do.

What is the therapist saying? Many marriage therapists approach infidelity as "past history", and then just want to "move forward". Your situation is very much like infidelity, with the lies and the gas lighting. You can't move forward until the roots of what happened are exposed and acknowledged. Your husband has to fully own what he did (not blame you or anyone else), he has to feel and show true deep remorse for hurting you, and he has to take strong actions to prove it will never happen again. Most therapists don't get into those things at all.

Even if your husband does all the right things, you still have every right to leave.

Divorce is not great for the kids, but they will adapt. Much depends on how well you keep them out of the fight. Let them know that both parents love them, and both parents want them to have good relationships with both parents. So many kids come from divorced homes these days that your kids will not be unusual. They'll get a lot of peer support.

Keeping kids in a dysfunctional or angry home is worse than divorce.


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## ladymisato

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> Now, here we are almost a year later - I don't think he's done it, but how can I be sure? - we decide we are going to work on fixing things. I've tried my hardest.


A lot of heartache, to be sure. To answer this question: how about drug testing? How about making drug testing a condition of not getting a divorce? Not only did he do drugs but he made you feel like the crazy person for suspecting. Now that he has admitted using drugs he has also admitted wrongly blaming you for suspecting him.

It's understandable that, before, you would have hesitated to push hard on the drug suspicions. But now that he had admitted it, how about rubbing his nose in it until he gets clean?

Don't choose divorce just to avoid confronting him.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Thor, 

Thank you so much for your advice! I've agreed to go back to therapy tonight as a last resort type thing. All of this time in therapy, this one particular situation has only been grazed upon. It's always been something else for the short hour that we're there (fighting in front of our kids; he had some issues with my sister ((she flipped on him when she found out as only natural being that she is just trying to stand up for what I can't seem to stand up for myself)), etc etc). Tonight will be only about this. I've told the therapist in the past that I am willing to TRY to work past it. It's always seemed to be my husband's issues being brought up in the therapy rather than this huge elephant in the room (and the reason we are there). 

My kids see so much. It hurts my heart just thinking about the fighting/screaming they've seen. The last thing I want is for them to grow up thinking this is normal and acceptable behavior. I want what is best for them and only them. 

He's expressed his remorse, says he feels awful, etc etc. But I feel as though I have checked out. How can you lie to someone for the entire duration of your relationship (I was a baby when we got together at 18!) and then expect things to be fine? And lie about the ONE thing that she said she would never tolerate. I'm beating myself up for letting my boundaries be crossed like this and still staying.


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## MamaOfTwo24

ladymisato said:


> A lot of heartache, to be sure. To answer this question: how about drug testing? How about making drug testing a condition of not getting a divorce? Not only did he do drugs but he made you feel like the crazy person for suspecting. Now that he has admitted using drugs he has also admitted wrongly blaming you for suspecting him.
> 
> It's understandable that, before, you would have hesitated to push hard on the drug suspicions. But now that he had admitted it, how about rubbing his nose in it until he gets clean?
> 
> Don't choose divorce just to avoid confronting him.


He is willing to submit to drug tests whenever I want. The thing is, I don't even care anymore. Like I said, I feel only resentment at this point. Is there a way to turn back and fix it? (get over it?)


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## greenapple

I am so sorry you're going through this,,In my opinion you can e put a stop on him and take him to therapy for drug addiction but honestly, you already lost trust in him. It is very very hard to be able to trust a person all over again especially someone who has a drug problem because you know they're always tempted to fall on it again. I think you have to follow your heart and do what you want and feel is right. but let me tell you that divorce is easier said than done, I am going through it and it has been extremely hard emotionally, financially and for the kids. So, my advice is to take some time alone for a while to think (go for a walk,etc) and really think about what you're going to do and stick with it. Separation is something that must be done when you are extremely sure that it will be for the better if not, stick to your plan B and work at it hard for the sake of your kids and your emotional well being. 
My best wishes to you and hope everything turns out great for you.


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## ladymisato

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> He is willing to submit to drug tests whenever I want. The thing is, I don't even care anymore. Like I said, I feel only resentment at this point. Is there a way to turn back and fix it? (get over it?)


Yes. But if he is willing to take drug tests it sounds like it is all on you. Is there anything you are demanding that he is unwilling to do? Think hard about what you would demand of him to stay in the marriage.

Assuming not, then it's really up to you to forgive him. That's hard, I know. He doesn't deserve you. But you can fix this.


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## Thor

My wife lied and hid important things from the beginning of our relationship. Things she knew or thought would be deal breakers for me. Or, things she felt would reduce my opinion of her.

I found out these things in bits and pieces, and then finally a large bunch came to light 3 years ago. That was 29 years into our marriage!

Yes, I understand how it feels. As if the entire world has vaporized underneath me. What is real? What was ever real? What else don't I know about yet?

And then, can I trust this person in the future? On what basis can I have that trust?

Don't beat yourself up too much. Use it as motivation to change. Use it as strength to hold your boundaries better in the future. You did the best you could at the time, and so now you know better. Forgive yourself for not being perfect.

As far as trying to work it out, that is a dangerous thing to say to him. If you spend much time on the infidelity board here you will see why I say that. The main problem is the deception. This person has a belief system that deception is ok. They have gone down a path from small deceptions to larger deceptions, and then over years they have gotten skilled at very clever deceptions. Many times their mental calculation is figuring out how to deceive you so that they can get what they want, either their affair or in your case he wants his cocaine.

So when you say you are willing to try to work things out, his mental process can revert to the habit of trying to figure out how to deceive you into thinking everything is ok. All he has to do is the minimum required to keep you from leaving. He doesn't have to make you happy, he just has to avoid you being so unhappy that you will leave. It is much easier to deceive you than for him to do the really hard work of staying off of cocaine. The drug has been a major part of his life, and perhaps a big part of his coping. The lifestyle and friends involved are a big part of his self identity.

It seems to always go better for betrayed spouses when they take the hardest position immediately. Which is that they are filing for divorce, and they are willing to consider reconciliation but it is up to the cheater to fight for it. This forces the cheater to face the reality that divorce is happening. If they want to keep the marriage it is no longer a matter of doing the minimum necessary to keep their spouse from divorcing them. Now they have to fight to stop the divorce.

So as you go forward, try to put the burden on him to prove himself. He made decisions for years which crossed your boundaries. So he made the decisions which will end the marriage. You are enforcing the consequences, but you are not responsible for ending the marriage, he is.


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## Thor

Add: I'm not saying you should divorce him. I am saying put the burden on him to save the marriage. Make him prove to you why you should not leave.

If you come to the conclusion he has crossed the line too far, and if you have lost the desire to stay married to him, then you have every right to divorce him despite whatever efforts he may make.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Thank you!!! I wish I would have discovered this place a few months ago. 

How I feel right now, it almost doesn't matter what he does to "prove himself", I'm already so far gone that I don't think we can get things back to how they were. I also don't want to. I have no desire to fix anything with him at this point.


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## Mr Blunt

> I want a divorce. I don't love him anymore, I feel nothing but resentment. I've been lied to, literally, my entire adult life (18-29) by the one person that I trusted with my whole heart and soul. And now I want out, I tried to get past it and over it and I can't. I've done research on kids & divorce and I've come to terms that it will be hard. They are my first priority and will continue to be.
> 
> Thoughts? Advice? I'm sorry this is so long.




*Work on your resentment and get yourself in the position that you are much more self reliant.* Improving in these two areas will help you regardless if you R or D.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Hello, 

Still stuck in this hell. Or so it seems. We went to therapy last Tuesday, I told the therapist everything and we dedicated the entire hour to just that. I told him I am stuck, I feel as though I am past the point of return after being run down for so many years. My husband legitimately wants to try and fix things. Our therapist recommended a 4 things, which to be honest, I only remember 2 out of 4, because I don't have it in me to continue. I am so emotionally drained at this point, there is no love left coming from me. Two days after therapy (I'd been quiet all week, a "shell of you" is what H says), I tell him it's best if we separate for a little while and see what happens. He fought me in this long and hard, making me feel guilty for every bit of it. 

Thursday, I get home from work and he leaves, says we can separate and he'll do "whatever it takes" to get me back in this 100%. Midnight on Thursday, he comes home because he "has no where to go". I was already in bed and he tried climbing in bed next to me. He was drunk, of course, so I said 'Ok, you can sleep here, I will go down to the spare bedroom'. He threw a fit because I did not want to sleep next to him. I said - 7 hours ago, you left because I told you we need to separate, what did you do, go do the bar and then come back home?

Friday morning he left before the kids woke up as not to confuse them. Friday after I get home from work - he's at the house. Says he wants to see the kids for a few hours. So, I say fine and I start cleaning the house, trying to busy myself as not to start a fight while he is having time with the kids. He leaves later on that night.

Gone all night and all day Saturday and I felt so liberated, so free. Not snappy with my kids, just HAPPY. The kids and I had a great, stress free day. Until I hear the door open around 4pm on Saturday. My mood does a complete 180. He's there to see the kids. It never was and never will be, my intention to keep his kids from him. I will never do that. So, I say I'm going to the grocery store, you can be with the kids for a few hours. I come back home and he leaves again. But not before fighting with me about a baby shower that is the next day for two of our best friends (co-ed baby shower) and he is making me feel so guilty that I'm not going with him. 

Sunday morning, I feel as though I should go to the baby shower to "save face" in front of our close friends. So, I call him and tell him that the kids and I will go with him to the baby shower. We go to the shower and he started this new anxiety medicine (he's never been on anything in his life, but he went to the doctor last week after I told him I wanted a divorce to get something to "control his temper"). It's so strong, 10x's stronger than Xanax and whenever he takes one, it's almost like he flatlines. He's so out of it. And on top of that, he drinks while on it! So we're at the shower, he has TWO beers, that's it but is so out of it from these meds. I was so miserable the whole time. We get home and he asks if I still want time apart (he's borderline drunk at this point and I don't even want to talk to him) so I say, I don't know what I want. And he says he's just going to leave again. 

He leaves but is texting me the ENTIRE time. I say, this is not separation if you are going to text me non-stop and when I don't answer get pissed and "scream" (through text) at me. He comes back home around 10 and tells me tomorrow (today) he's going to take off of work and get the house appraised to put it on the market and then he's going to go to a divorce lawyer to get things started. Tells me I'm so up and down (which I am as I've never been hurt so badly by one person in my life, I'm sorry that I don't know which direction to go in). So I let him talk and say, do what you need to do. (all threats, because he needs to have control over the situation -- he's a master manipulator)

He sleeps at home, in bed. I sleep in the spare room.

Now - this is where I'm at right now. I do not want to sell my house (I can't afford to live there alone) and this is the only thing holding me back from pursuing anything further; ie divorce. I feel nothing for him anymore. I don't WANT to take the therapists advice. I have no love for him anymore and the thought of being intimate with him makes me cringe. I know the house bit probably seems petty, but we worked SO hard on that house and it makes me sick thinking about having to move out of it. 

I'm sorry I seem up and down, I just have no idea where my head is right now! My mom keeps telling me that I need to make ME happy first, how long are going to live in this misery? Are you going to wait another 10 years and see where you're at? Then you'll be 40. 

Ugh! Help!


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## Thor

If you do sell the house, in a few years you'll look back and realize it was just a house. In the big scheme of your life, an object is a minor thing. Look at the entire picture. Would you rather be horribly miserable but in this house, or would you rather be happy but not have the house?

Remember how good it feels when he is out of the house? THAT is how you'd feel every day after you D.


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## RoseAglow

OP, I feel for you.

I am going to take a different angle. My ex struggled with drug addiction. It ultimately killed him.

Not everyone who uses drugs becomes an addict; however, your husband knows that you are about to leave you over drug use, then he comes home to you drunk. Not smart on his end. He is using drugs/alcohol as a coping measure. He is not stopping, even knowing that he is about to lose his family. This suggests to me that he is more than a recreational user. He might be early into a true addiction.

I left my ex-fiance after many years of his struggle to get and stay sober. Thankfully we never had children. 

Your love is already gone, and you are young and your children are young. I would encourage you to leave. Get divorced and protect yourself and your children. You can still date him if you want, see if he can get a few years' sobriety under his belt. 

But for now- free yourself. Get him out of your finances. Get him off you car loans/titles, your mortgage. It will be worth it to rent for a while, if you need to sell your house. You have no idea what an addict will do, once they are really in the throes of addiction. My husband's ex sold his car out from under him because they were both on the title- he just walked outside to go to work and his car was gone. He reported it stolen but found out it was legally sold (yay Texas.) 

He can invite anyone into the house. He can take things out of the house. He might get a loan out that you know nothing about- not necessarily from a bank, either, because he will know all kinds of very scary people. He can stash blades, needles, etc in secret "hiding" places for your kids to find. I found needles and drug bags in baggies in the back of the toilet, underneath the guest towels, and worse, later on, in my car, which I didn't even know he was driving- we didn't live together at that point and I still don't know how he got the spare key. I suspect he broke in while I was away for business. Thank God I didn't get pulled over for anything- if he was driving my car who knows what he was doing!

This was a solid man, a wonderful, honest, loving, giving man before he fell into addiction. Members of my Nar-anon group tried to warn me; my mom was terrified for my safety and I brushed it off, I did not believe he would ever hurt me. And he didn't ever hurt me physically; he did put me in terrible unsafe situations though- and those are only the ones that I know about. You might believe he is safe, but he is not. 

You are not talking about any of the above pleasantries that come along with serious and significant drug addiction, so he isn't at this point yet, at least not to your knowledge. You don't love him anymore- get out before he sinks to these levels and it all becomes very complicated.

Addiction should be taken *very seriously.* This is not a matter of, "Now he is willing to try everything; you should give him a second change." He is still using. That is all you need to know. 

I also have to recommend Naranon or Alanon for you, even if you leave. You will still need to have some contact with him because of your children, and most importantly, you will have excellent support and resources to protect your children as best you can. 

Good luck.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Thanks so much for the advice.

Thor, you're exactly right. I know I will look back and it will not matter, I just have in the back of my head "what if?". What if I regret my decision, etc etc.

He found out last night that his grandfather only has a few days left to live and he's taking it VERY hard. However, I am finding it hard to give him sympathy at this point, because he is very "woe is me" right now. For instance, last night he was crying about it (about his grandfather) and he just kept saying "why me? Why is this **** happening to me? What did I do to deserve this?" (I didn't say it outloud, but I was thinking 'I CAN TELL YOU WHAT YOU DID TO DESERVE A DIVORCE!', but I didn't. I am trying to be there for him, without giving the wrong impression. We were talking last night after he got the phone call from his mom and he said, "Can we please just let all of this go between us, put it in the past and move forward?" I'm sorry that all of this is happening to him, but it is NOT a reason that I am just going to forget everything and move forward. If it were that easy, I would have done that months ago!!

So, now I'm stuck in a place where I feel as though I need to be there for him, as a wife but also a 'please don't take this the wrong way' spot.


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## ladymisato

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> For instance, last night he was crying about it (about his grandfather) and he just kept saying "why me? Why is this **** happening to me? What did I do to deserve this?"


This really sounds like egocentric self-pity of the most appaling sort. First, it's not happening to him, it's happening to his grandfather. Second, did nobody ever tell him the facts of life?

You should definitely not allow him to use this to get off the hook. You might even use it to hammer home the importance of getting things right.


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## Hicks

If he's using drugs, you should get a divorce and figure out how to keep full custody.

If he's not using drugs, and is a good father to your children, then you should stay together. After all, you created them knowing he was a drug user and being young and naive is not a free ticket to avoid your own part in this.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Hello, 

It's been awhile since I've posted. We've decided to go through the divorce process. I can't go on like this and I don't expect him to wait in limbo. I will never gain my trust back for him. We're both suffering emotionally right now. I went to see the therapist on my own 3 times since I last posted. Mainly for guilt issues, re: my kids. He will not own up to anything he's done wrong and that's HUGE to me right now. He keeps saying things like "this is what YOU want. This is YOUR fault. YOU'RE walking away. YOU'RE tearing our family apart, etc etc etc..". I'm not tearing the family apart, if anything (I feel in my heart) I'm doing what is right for my kids and myself. He has not once mentioned working on "his" issues (ie; gaining trust back, acknowledging his part in this..) and it just proves to me that I am doing the right thing. He's also saying things to me like "I've done everything I can to fix this and you shut me out". He's right, I have shut him out, but he has not done everything he can to fix it. He can't even admit what he's done wrong and own up to it. 

So, this is where I'm at right now. I've gone to look at 3 places already as he says he wants to keep the house (I do not find this fair at all, him being able to stay in our home and I'm the one that has to move out, but hey.. life isn't fair). However, I've not spoken to a lawyer yet, so I don't want to move out just yet. Thoughts? Think I should wait and see what advice the lawyer has about moving out? I'm afraid if I move out before I have professional help, he will use it against me.


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## 3Xnocharm

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> Hello,
> 
> It's been awhile since I've posted. We've decided to go through the divorce process. I can't go on like this and I don't expect him to wait in limbo. I will never gain my trust back for him. We're both suffering emotionally right now. I went to see the therapist on my own 3 times since I last posted. Mainly for guilt issues, re: my kids. He will not own up to anything he's done wrong and that's HUGE to me right now. He keeps saying things like "this is what YOU want. This is YOUR fault. YOU'RE walking away. YOU'RE tearing our family apart, etc etc etc..". I'm not tearing the family apart, if anything (I feel in my heart) I'm doing what is right for my kids and myself. He has not once mentioned working on "his" issues (ie; gaining trust back, acknowledging his part in this..) and it just proves to me that I am doing the right thing. He's also saying things to me like "I've done everything I can to fix this and you shut me out". He's right, I have shut him out, but he has not done everything he can to fix it. He can't even admit what he's done wrong and own up to it.
> 
> So, this is where I'm at right now. I've gone to look at 3 places already as he says he wants to keep the house (I do not find this fair at all, him being able to stay in our home and I'm the one that has to move out, but hey.. life isn't fair). However, I've not spoken to a lawyer yet, so I don't want to move out just yet. Thoughts? Think I should wait and see what advice the lawyer has about moving out? I'm afraid if I move out before I have professional help, he will use it against me.


Well, since you said that you want to sell the house and cannot afford to live there on your own, you might as well get out there and find a place to move to. You want out, so get out. Then there can be no back and forth any more, with him leaving and constantly coming back in, if you have your own place. Stop listening to what he is saying, tune him out. YOU KNOW the truth of your situation, so he is only running his mouth to hear himself at this point. Get your own bank account, if you havent already, sleep in a separate room, and get to home search. Practice the 180 so that you can detach and live for yourself. Contact only makes you miserable, so avoid it as much as you possibly can.


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## MamaOfTwo24

All of our finances have always been seperate (his choice, and looking back I'm sure had a lot to do with his little habit). I am also already sleeping in a seperate bedroom. This may seem ignorant, but can you give me some detail on the "180", not sure what that is?

Thank you!!


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## 3Xnocharm

All of the rules will not apply to you, as the list was made for dealing with affairs. Going dark on him is the best thing you can do for yourself now. 

The 180

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.

*4. Don't follow her/him around the house.*

*5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.*

6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your wayward partner.

7. Don't ask for reassurances.

8. Don't buy or give gifts.

9. Don't schedule dates together.

10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you really think about it, he/she is, at this particular moment, not very loveable.
*
11. Do more than act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life*!

*12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.*

*13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!

14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue, no matter how much you want to*!

*15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.*

16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the wayward partner)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack there of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life...with out them!

17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available...for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.

18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around, not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.

19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!

*20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!*

21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.

*22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!*

23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!

*24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.*

*25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.

26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.*

27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.

28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.

29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!

30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.

31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"

*32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.*

33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the affair partner.


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## Thor

Mostly you need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Before you move out, before you take money out of joint accounts, before you sign any documents, etc.


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## Blossom Leigh

Thor said:


> Mostly you need to talk to a lawyer before you do anything. Before you move out, before you take money out of joint accounts, before you sign any documents, etc.


:iagree:

Many attorneys tell you not to leave. I am so glad you can see through his gaslighting. A book that will help you further define it is Emotional Blackmail. Has he ever gotten violent with you? Are you and your child safe until separate housing is possible?


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## MamaOfTwo24

He has never "hit" me. He's gotten in my face, to the point where his breath his blown my hair back. He's pushed me into walls. He's pinned me up against walls and hit the wall next to my head. But he's never hit me. We did get into our biggest fight ever, in Oct of last year when he pushed me down, held me down several times. I actually had to call the state cops on him, which I've never done before. My arms had bruises all over them and I had a huge bruise the entire length of my side, from waist to arm. Of course he left before the cops arrived. To answer your question, I don't feel threatened and I feel as though my children are safe.


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## Blossom Leigh

Honey.. you are a victim of domestic violence and your children ARE at risk. Talk to an attorney today and call your local domestic violence shelter and ask them if I am right and what you should do to get yourself and your children to safety. The National Domestic Violence Hotline | 24/7 Confidential Support

Not naming that behavior for what it is... physical intimidation, psychological abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, etc... does you no favors. Did you press charges when the cops came and did the cops see your bruises?


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## Blossom Leigh

Warning Signs and Red Flags
It’s not always easy to tell at the beginning of a relationship if it will become abusive.

In fact, many abusive partners may seem absolutely perfect in the early stages of a relationship. Possessive and controlling behaviors don’t always appear overnight, but rather emerge and intensify as the relationship grows.

Domestic violence doesn’t look the same in every relationship because every relationship is different. But one thing most abusive relationships have in common is that the abusive partner does many different kinds of things to have more power and control over their partners.

If you’re beginning to feel as if your partner or a loved one’s partner is becoming abusive, there are a few behaviors that you can look out for. Watch out for these red flags and if you’re experiencing one or more of them in your relationship, call the hotline to talk about what’s going on.

Telling you that you can never do anything right
Showing jealousy of your friends and time spent away
Keeping you or discouraging you from seeing friends or family members
Embarrassing or shaming you with put-downs
Controlling every penny spent in the household
Taking your money or refusing to give you money for expenses
Looking at you or acting in ways that scare you
Controlling who you see, where you go, or what you do
Preventing you from making your own decisions
Telling you that you are a bad parent or threatening to harm or take away your children
Preventing you from working or attending school
Destroying your property or threatening to hurt or kill your pets
Intimidating you with guns, knives or other weapons
Pressuring you to have sex when you don’t want to or do things sexually you’re not comfortable with
Pressuring you to use drugs or alcohol


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## Blossom Leigh

sample domestic violence laws for my state.... 


Domestic Violence Laws


In Alabama, an abuser does not have the legal right to beat his/her partner. Domestic Violence relationships are defined as such When the victim is:

A spouse
A former spouse
A parent
A child
A person with whom the victim has a child in common
A present or former household member
A person who has or had a dating or engagement relationship
Usually, this type of abuse is considered either Domestic Violence 3rd degree (Class A Misdemeanor), Domestic Violence 2nd Degree (Class B Felony), or Domestic Violence 1st degree (Class A Felony).

*A) Domestic Violence 3rd Degree:*
When a person commits the crime of:
Assault 3rd Degree:

Menacing
Reckless endangerment
Criminal coercion
Harassment

This requires that this person must serve a minimum of 48 hours of imprisonment on the second or subsequent conviction.
This sentence is doubled if there is also a violation of a Protection Order.

*B) Domestic Violence 2nd Degree:*
When a person commits the crime of Assault 2nd degree.


This requires that this person must serve a minimum of 6 months of imprisonment on the second or subsequent conviction.
This sentence is doubled if there is also a violation of a Protection Order.

*C) Domestic Violence 1st Degree:*
When a person commits the crime of Assault 1st degree.
This requires that this person must serve a minimum of 1 year of imprisonment on the second or subsequent conviction.
This sentence is doubled if there is also a violation of a Protection Order.

D. Any warrant less arrest shall include a charge of a crime of Domestic Violence under this act.

E. In a complaint from 2 or more opposing persons the officer shall evaluate each compliant separately to determine who was the primary aggressor.

In determining the primary aggressor the officer shall consider:

Prior complaints of domestic violence.
The relative severity of the injuries inflicted on each person.
The likelihood of future injury to each person.
Did one of the persons act in self-defense.
F. The officer shall not threaten, suggest or otherwise indicate the possible arrest of all parties to discourage the request for intervention.

G. The officer shall not base the decision to or not to arrest on:

The specific consent or request of the victim.
The officer’s perception of the willingness of a victim or witness to the crime to testify or otherwise participate in the judicial proceedings.
H. An officer may arrest a person without a warrant, on any day at any time in any of the following instances:

The offense has been committed or a breach of peace threatened in the presence of an officer.
A felony committed by the person arrested, not in the presence of the officer.
A felony committed and the officer has reasonable cause to believe the person arrested committed the felony.
The officer has reasonable cause to believe the person arrested has committed a felony. (Although it may afterwards appear that a felony had not in fact been committed.)
A charge has been made upon reasonable cause that the person arrested has committed a felony.
The officer has actual knowledge that a warrant, felony or misdemeanor has been issued in accordance with this law.
Upon request the officer must show the warrant to the arrested person as soon as possible.
If the officer does not have the warrant in his/her possession at the time of arrest the officer shall inform the arrested person of the offense charged and of the fact that a warrant has been issued.
The officer has reasonable cause to believe that a felony or misdemeanor has been committed by the person arrested in violation of a Protection Order.
The offense involves domestic violence as defined by the law and the arrest is based on probable cause, regardless of whether the offense is a felony or misdemeanor.
I. When an officer investigates an allegation of domestic violence, whether or not an arrest is made, the officer shall make a written report of the alleged incident, Including a statement of the complaint, and the disposition of the case.

If police are not called, victims of domestic violence can still initiate criminal charges. 

A victim of domestic violence should contact the police. 

Even if the police are not called or do not make an arrest on the scene, the victim can initiate criminal charges by going to the city or county courthouse (depending on where the victim lives) and swearing out a complaint before the court, a warrant officer, or a clerk– magistrate. The warrant will then be turned over to a police officer or the sheriff who will then arrest the abuse. It could be hours, days or weeks, however, before the arrest is accomplished and the victim should plan to take action which will keep him/her safe during this time. 

Sometimes warrant clerks, magistrates or warrant officers will refuse to issue a warrant. In these cases, an attorney or an advocate from The House of Ruth may be able to assist the victim in obtaining a warrant. 

Whether arrest results from police action or from a warrant requested by the victim, it is only a first step and only temporary relief and protection for the victim. In nearly all circumstances, the abuser will be released after serving the appropriate time. For this reason, a victim should take immediate steps which will get her/him and any children to a safe place with essential papers and items. The House of Ruth can help you make plans to escape and can offer shelter and support during this difficult time. 

Once a victim or the police file criminal charges, the district attorney for the county or the city prosecutor for the city will prosecute the case at no cost to the victim. A victim does not need to hire a private attorney to file or prosecute criminal actions. However, the victim must cooperate with law enforcement agencies and the prosecutor in their efforts to obtain a successful outcome for the case. Most of the time, the victim will have to testify in court. Without the full cooperation of the victim, the law enforcement system has little chance of correcting the abuser’s behavior. 

Within a matter of days or weeks following the arrest, the abuser will have an opportunity to plead “guilty” or “not guilty” to the charges against him/her. If the abuser pleads “guilty,” the judge will sentence him/her to a penalty for his/her actions. If the abuser pleads “not guilty,” a trial will take place. If the charge is a misdemeanor, the trial will be heard before the judge only. If the charge is a felony, the trial will be heard before a judge and a jury, unless the abuser requests a judge only. If the abuser is convicted, the judge can order that the abuser pay money to the victim for financial losses occurring as a result of the crime (restitution); can require that the abuser go to counseling; and can issue a protection or restraining order to stop the abuser from coming in contact with you or others. In addition, the judge can order jail time, a fine, community service or other punishment for the abuser’s actions. 

Victims who cooperate with prosecution and who suffer financial losses which are not covered by other sources may be eligible for compensation from the Alabama Crime Victim’s Compensation Commission at 1-800-542-9388. An advocate from the House of Ruth can help victims file for Alabama Crime Victim’s Compensation. 

Victims of domestic violence may also need counseling, support and, sometimes, temporary shelter at a private location. The House of Ruth offers these services and are available to all domestic violence victims in the eight county service area.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Thank you. So much. I suppose I've never wanted to be a victim, I've never played myself off to be a victim. I've always acknowledged what he's done, but I never considered it "abuse", even though I knew in my heart it was. 

I did not file a report, but mainly because I felt stupid that they had to come in the first place. It had just happened an hour prior, therefore there weren't any bruises at that time. They didn't show up until the next morning. He blames me for every fight we ever had. That one, was because I was trying to get my phone back from him and had "cornered" him.


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## Blossom Leigh

its not an excuse... he is 100% responsible for his own reactions and behaviors as are you and him laying his hands on you is punishable by law.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Hi all.

The kids & I have moved in with my parents. My oldest (she just turned 8 on Saturday) is taking it hard. She says things like "This is not our home.. I don't want to have two houses.. Home is our house where Dad lives". I'm trying to make it easy on them (mostly her because my 3 year old doesn't understand) but I really don't know how to go about doing that. She is placing blame on me as her father is in a constant state of "pity me" and has cried to her almost every night for the past 2 months. She doesn't understand, all she knows is Daddy is hurting and Mommy "is not" (because I try to conceal my emotions in front of them). So, I'm not sure how to handle that either. She doesn't needed the added stress/burden. My heart is breaking in half for her and I'm only hoping that one day she will know the truth, but for now I plan to keep a level head (saving every nasty text message he has been sending me - and they are NASTY) and let my kids know it's not their fault. 

Any advice would be helpful!! Thank you!!


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## neglected42

Honestly, your husband is crying to the eight year old?!? What a total shmuck! Can you afford to take her to counselling? I am sure an experienced counsellor could help her through this, and minimize the damage your husband is doing. Kids tend to believe and trust "experts". My heart goes out to you! It is horrible to see your kids hurting.


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## Blossom Leigh

OP, I hope you are doing well.


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## MamaOfTwo24

I'm doing okay. He is not. He's having major panic attacks/depression. This weekend, I went up to nyc and stayed with a friend as it was stbxh's (did I do that right? Ha) weekend with the kids. On Saturday morning, I woke up to 21 missed calls from him. Called him back, freaking out thinking that something happened with the kids. No, he was making sure I said I was where I was. He then proceeded to text me all day long and started calling again around 4. He did not believe me. My car is in his name (I've paid for it - put the down payment on it and have made every payment thus far) and he told me he was going to call the cops and report the car stolen. He then told he had a GPS tracker on my phone and he could tell I was somewhere else. I assume trying to manipulate me into "confessing" something. Just plain nasty text messages all day long. I saved all of them. 

Sunday, we had to go to our daughter's football game (she cheers) and he wouldn't even sit with me. Wouldn't talk to me. And since the kids and I are staying with my parents, I had stopped at the house this morning to pack their lunches as I didn't have much my parents (I told him this last night and made sure it was okay as I am still paying for the groceries at this point, I haven't cancelled my direct deposit going into our joint bank account, so he knew I was coming). I pulled in and his car was there (he normally leaves for work at 5) and he's in hysterics, crying, can't breathe, on the phone with his mom (who apparently has been his "savior"). I ask him if there is anything I can do and he says no, he doesn't want me doing anything for him. 

So, I guess this post may just be a vent? I'm not sure how to handle the situation, I am concerned that he is going to hurt himself.


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## Blossom Leigh

Girl.... you are doing right by seeking safety fast. Are you living separately right now, divorce in the works, etc.? I know your fear of him hurting himself. I feared the same of my H after Dday of his affair in 2012. I know the pain of that need to leave yet afraid to leave. I am sorry.


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## 3Xnocharm

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> I'm doing okay. He is not. He's having major panic attacks/depression. This weekend, I went up to nyc and stayed with a friend as it was stbxh's (did I do that right? Ha) weekend with the kids. On Saturday morning, I woke up to 21 missed calls from him. Called him back, freaking out thinking that something happened with the kids. No, he was making sure I said I was where I was. He then proceeded to text me all day long and started calling again around 4. He did not believe me. My car is in his name (I've paid for it - put the down payment on it and have made every payment thus far) and he told me he was going to call the cops and report the car stolen. He then told he had a GPS tracker on my phone and he could tell I was somewhere else. I assume trying to manipulate me into "confessing" something. Just plain nasty text messages all day long. I saved all of them.
> 
> Sunday, we had to go to our daughter's football game (she cheers) and he wouldn't even sit with me. Wouldn't talk to me. And since the kids and I are staying with my parents, I had stopped at the house this morning to pack their lunches as I didn't have much my parents (I told him this last night and made sure it was okay as I am still paying for the groceries at this point, I haven't cancelled my direct deposit going into our joint bank account, so he knew I was coming). I pulled in and his car was there (he normally leaves for work at 5) and he's in hysterics, crying, can't breathe, on the phone with his mom (who apparently has been his "savior"). I ask him if there is anything I can do and he says no, he doesn't want me doing anything for him.
> 
> So, I guess this post may just be a vent? I'm not sure how to handle the situation, I am concerned that he is going to hurt himself.


I hate to sound cold, but you cant be worrying about him hurting himself. That is not your responsibility, or your fault. He needs to suck it up, be a man, and get ahold of himself. Crying to your 8 yr old is totally out of line, and needs to stop, or you need to stop letting him see her unsupervised. 

Stop responding to his desperate texts, let calls go to voicemail, and only return those pertaining to child care or the divorce. His hysterics are HIS responsibility. Dont check in on him, dont initiate contact. He is a grown man and needs to start acting like it.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Thank you so very much. 

3X - that is exactly what my mom is telling me, that I need to stop responding to him, stop giving him the reaction that he wants. You don't sound cold, I need someone to tell me how it is, and not sugar coat. I am sure he is telling his family awful things about me, but what am I going to do? I know the truth and hopefully one day my kids will too.

Blossom, the kids and I have been staying at my parents for a week and a half now. Before that, we had been sleeping in separate bedrooms and basically only "co-parenting" for about 4 months. However, the fights were too much so I decided I need to leave. I have an appointment with a lawyer on Friday. I am actively looking for another place for the kids & I, but I'd like to talk with a lawyer first to see what my rights are as far as the house goes (he wants to buy me out).


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## Blossom Leigh

Good! Out of the FOG - Personality Disorder Support is a good tool for you right now. Study it to learn the definitions of his behavior so you can call it out and place boundaries around yourself going forward. Get the book Boundaries by Townsend AND Safe People by Cloud. You will need to rebuild your personal identity and psychological boundaries because he has shredded them.


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## MamaOfTwo24

It's been 2 weeks since the kids and I have been staying with my parents. (He has them tues, thurs and every other weekend -- this weekend was my weekend) and it's been stressful. I miss my house and living there. That's it though, I don't miss him. It's been less stressful in the aspect of zero fighting however its been more stressful staying with my parents. I miss our "life" (did we ever even have an honest life together?) is this normal? Does this pass? 

He also been very manipulative. Crying every time I see him. Crying to the kids. Today I will see him as our daughter cheerleads today, I will then leave with the kids and this will kill him. I hate seeing it. 

I guess I just needed to vent. Thanks for listening.


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## MamaOfTwo24

A very small part of me wants to go back simply to be back in my home. I know this will be bad though, so I wouldn't do it. Just a nagging feeling.


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## Blossom Leigh

Totally understood. Stay in safety, ask him to seek help.


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## neglected42

It must be hard to live at your parents. Keep thinking about the peace and serenity you will have in a place of your own. It is in the near future, and you should try and stay focused on it. I would avoid your husband as much as possible. He is definitely trying to manipulate you, and selfishly causing your poor children to suffer in the process. The fact that he is doing that should reinforce that he is not the kind of man you want to be with. This is difficult and confusing for children, he absolutely needs to stop making it worse for them. He is a parent and a grown man, and he needs to start behaving like one.


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## MamaOfTwo24

I broke down and had a meltdown yesterday. I was driving to my daughter's game, with my kids with me and didn't have a physical address (horrible with direction, I rely on my gps through & through). I texted my husband earlier in the day asking him for the address, as I knew he knew where the field was. He wouldn't give it to me, he only told me the name of it. (It was an away game, about 40 minutes from my house..) I googled, called other parents, no one seemed to have a phsysical address, so I left knowing the general direction I was going and figured I could wing it as I got close. Well, I got close and could not find it. He wouldn't answer my calls, I kept calling/texting. I pulled over and broke down, just cried and cried. He said "you have a gps, why aren't you using it. You're a total f*ck up". Yes, he said those exact words. My cell phone battery then died and she ended up being about 30 minutes late to the game. This is the type of behavior I get from him now. He refused to give me simple directions when he was already sitting at the field. What was worse was that when I got to the game, I wanted to hug him. WTF?!! Yesterday was bad, the kids had been fighting and stressed all day and that continued after the game and up until bedtime. I understand why some women stay for the help not having to deal with doing it alone.


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## Blossom Leigh

Click the link in my signature on Stockholm Syndrome by Dr. Carver. Your desire to hug him is rooted in it. 

I am so sorry you had a rough day yesterday.

You were rattled and wanted support.

In those moments, you will have to get used to being a mother to yourself and give yourself an internal hug. If that had been me and I had made that mistake, here is how I would have handled it. 

"you know what, getting the address ahead of time would have prevented H from getting those digs in on me and I needed to be prepared for the trip anyway. Next time, I will do this differently. Right now, just breath and know you are safe and you can choose different next time."

When you get your babies out on the road you need to know what you are going Darlin, but your husbands way of telling you that is cruel.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Totally agree. I then beat myself up about it after putting the kids to bed, "if I would have figured the directions out beforehand, I wouldn't have even had to speak to him". Agree, my fault. Just a bad weekend overall. I need to adjust myself to this. I've also got an appointment with a lawyer on Friday.


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## Blossom Leigh

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> Totally agree. I then beat myself up about it after putting the kids to bed, "if I would have figured the directions out beforehand, I wouldn't have even had to speak to him". Agree, my fault. Just a bad weekend overall. I need to adjust myself to this. I've also got an appointment with a lawyer on Friday.


Darlin', watch your speech about yourself. Keep it positive and not battering. As much as you are trying to escape the abuse of others, be mindful that most of your abuse comes from yourself. 

That's been a long hard road for me and I still battle with it. I can be super hard on myself. So, I have to remind myself to not do that.

Practice being kind with yourself Honey. Your life will settle down.


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## neglected42

Wow, do I get the no sense of direction thing!! I am exactly the same way. I totally understand that panicked, desperate feeling when you have a deadline, don't know where you are going, and are not sure exactly where you are. Helpless!!! Been there, done that. I agree with everyone. You need to take a deep breath in those situations, and realize it is not the end of the world if you are late, or even if your daughter misses the game. 

Your husband was behaving the way he was because he realized he had power in that situation, and he was abusing it. He knows about your lack of sense of direction, and he wanted to show you that you NEED him. You do not! 

What happened is just a simple life lesson. Now you know that you need a set of directions before you head off. The next time you will have them. 

There will be more situations that come up where you previously relied on your husband. You will find them stressful. Do not let your husband know this. Take a deep breath, let the consequences happen (in the grand scheme of things the consequences will not be that dire), learn from them, and carry on.

Eventually, you will find a way to handle everything without your husband. (I have gone through this process, even though I am not divorced). There will be bumps, and moments of feeling helpless. In the end, you will feel strong and empowered.


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## Openminded

Life changes are stressful in general and divorce is extremely stressful. But the old saying "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" really is true. The easy times in my life taught me very little but the hard times taught me that I can handle anything. 

Just take things a day at a time. Or an hour at a time if a day is too much to handle. Remind yourself it's temporary and that you have your entire life ahead of you. A happy life.


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## turnera

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> I'm doing okay. He is not. He's having major panic attacks/depression. This weekend, I went up to nyc and stayed with a friend as it was stbxh's (did I do that right? Ha) weekend with the kids. On Saturday morning, I woke up to 21 missed calls from him. Called him back, freaking out thinking that something happened with the kids. No, he was making sure I said I was where I was. He then proceeded to text me all day long and started calling again around 4. He did not believe me. My car is in his name (I've paid for it - put the down payment on it and have made every payment thus far) and he told me he was going to call the cops and report the car stolen. He then told he had a GPS tracker on my phone and he could tell I was somewhere else. I assume trying to manipulate me into "confessing" something. Just plain nasty text messages all day long. I saved all of them.
> 
> Sunday, we had to go to our daughter's football game (she cheers) and he wouldn't even sit with me. Wouldn't talk to me. And since the kids and I are staying with my parents, I had stopped at the house this morning to pack their lunches as I didn't have much my parents (I told him this last night and made sure it was okay as I am still paying for the groceries at this point, I haven't cancelled my direct deposit going into our joint bank account, so he knew I was coming). I pulled in and his car was there (he normally leaves for work at 5) and he's in hysterics, crying, can't breathe, on the phone with his mom (who apparently has been his "savior"). I ask him if there is anything I can do and he says no, he doesn't want me doing anything for him.
> 
> So, I guess this post may just be a vent? I'm not sure how to handle the situation, I am concerned that he is going to hurt himself.


He's acting like a 12 year old. He's not trying to look at himself. He's not being an adult. He's harming the kids with this act. He needs to be hospitalized and treated.

Stop interacting with him. Ask your dad to interact with him when the kids have to be exchanged; abusers respect the other men, but not the women.


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## Flying_Dutchman

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> No, he was making sure I said I was where I was. He then proceeded to text me all day long and started calling again around 4. He did not believe me. (................) I am concerned that he is going to hurt himself.


I don't want to alarm you - more a heads-up - but I'm more concerned that he may hurt you.

Those texts are typical of a cokehead's paranoia. He's likely to be using again as a coping mechanism for his 'trauma' at your leaving. If he is, he's gonna escalate,, and those texts are an escalation from the manipulative crying and the blaming. 

I've worked with druggies and did a fair few in my youth. Worked in the music industry for 10 years. I'm familiar with addicts of ANYTHING that can be smoked, snorted or injected.

Coke users - particularly narcissistic ones - can be very dangerous. So far as he's concerned, you've ruined his life for no good reason. If he can't win you back with his manipulations - note how none of them involved even a pretence of being nice - he'll escalate to punishments. Suicide threats will be next - then calling you a heartless, vicious bîtch when you don't dash to save him.

While there's a risk of immediate violence if he gets really wasted - "It wasn't my fault. It was the drugs! (boo, hooo)" - hopefully he'll follow the usual pattern which is when you need to take swift action. No more being nice "for the sake of the kids."

Remember his previous 'mild' violence, then remind yourself he did that before you "ruined his life." Yeah, he was relatively happy when he did that. What might he do now that he's angry and vengeful?

So, after the suicide threats, more angry texts, weeping, shouting and other sundry manipulation attempts that don't get you to go back,, the next step(s) will be hammering on your door (at 2am) and stalking.

If he does that - he might not but he's heading down that route - no more being nice. Don't answer the door,, don't engage him in the street (beyond appeasing him to get away) and call the police immediately. Get them to drug test him if you can. Then, ASAP, get a restraining order. If he violates the restraining order, report him and move somewhere secret or safe. If the threat of jail can't keep him away from you it won't prevent him from hurting you either.

Hopefully, he'll curb his own behaviour before it gets to that but while he's escalating (and probably 'medicating' with coke) you need to be hyper vigilant for the well-documented progression towards violence.

Best of luck. You've done great so far. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MamaOfTwo24

Why am I such a pushover? Advice on how to handle this, please!

I have my direct deposit through work set up so that a very large portion of my check (90%) goes into our joint checking account to cover all bills/groceries (mortgage, daycare, utilities, car payment, insurance, everything..). When I proposed the idea of me stopping my direct deposit, or at least lowering it to a much smaller amount until we get everything sorted out, it started a huge fight. 

As you know, the kids and I staying with my parents for the past 3 weeks. It is currently split 50/50, as well as we can. He has them Tuesday, overnight and Thursday, overnight and every other weekend. I have been having to buy groceries for the kids' lunches and everything else we need, at my parents house as well as the amount of gas that I use is nearly quadrupled because I take them to his house on Tuesdays and Thursdays after picking them up and then I have to drive back to his house at 5:30am on the mornings proceeding those days so that he can go to work. 

I will continue to keep money going into the account for my car payment and daycare, I also offered to continue paying my portion of the mortgage until I get a place of my own. 

Now, my questions: 

First; the nights that he has them and I have to go there the following mornings is extremely exhausting in so many ways. I'm considering proposing the idea of them not sleeping over with him if he doesn't have alternate plans for them in the morning WITHOUT them having to wake up 5am (he suggested taking them to daycare that early, I said no because daycare doesn't open until 6:30 and I do not want them to have to be in daycare/school for 12 hours a day.) What do you suggest my plan be?

Second; How much money should I still have going into the joint account at this point? 

I feel like a fish out of water with everything. I did go see a lawyer on Friday and like an idiot, forgot my list that I made of things to talk to him about, so I panicked and only covered about 4 of the topics that I had in mind.


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## 3Xnocharm

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> Why am I such a pushover? Advice on how to handle this, please!
> 
> I have my direct deposit through work set up so that a very large portion of my check (90%) goes into our joint checking account to cover all bills/groceries (mortgage, daycare, utilities, car payment, insurance, everything..). When I proposed the idea of me stopping my direct deposit, or at least lowering it to a much smaller amount until we get everything sorted out, it started a huge fight.
> 
> As you know, the kids and I staying with my parents for the past 3 weeks. It is currently split 50/50, as well as we can. He has them Tuesday, overnight and Thursday, overnight and every other weekend. I have been having to buy groceries for the kids' lunches and everything else we need, at my parents house as well as the amount of gas that I use is nearly quadrupled because I take them to his house on Tuesdays and Thursdays after picking them up and then I have to drive back to his house at 5:30am on the mornings proceeding those days so that he can go to work.
> 
> I will continue to keep money going into the account for my car payment and daycare, I also offered to continue paying my portion of the mortgage until I get a place of my own.
> 
> Now, my questions:
> 
> First; the nights that he has them and I have to go there the following mornings is extremely exhausting in so many ways. I'm considering proposing the idea of them not sleeping over with him if he doesn't have alternate plans for them in the morning WITHOUT them having to wake up 5am (he suggested taking them to daycare that early, I said no because daycare doesn't open until 6:30 and I do not want them to have to be in daycare/school for 12 hours a day.) What do you suggest my plan be?
> 
> Second; How much money should I still have going into the joint account at this point?
> 
> I feel like a fish out of water with everything. I did go see a lawyer on Friday and like an idiot, forgot my list that I made of things to talk to him about, so I panicked and only covered about 4 of the topics that I had in mind.


Your H needs to figure out how to get the kids to his house himself, WHY are you the one driving all over the place?? Its his time, HE needs to make arrangements. Stop killing yourself to accomodate him. Change your direct deposit to whatever it is that YOU need to live and take care of yourself and the kids. You are living separate, so it makes sense that changes need to be need on the financial side.


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## Blossom Leigh

1. Reiteration - Refrain from beating up yourself. Practice kindness, try again.

2. You are right to want less hours at day care for your babies.

3. You are right to want more equitable division of care for household and child responsibilities

4. You are right to call uncle when your exhaustion is getting to you. Your kids need you to NOT be exhausted. Therefore... seeking a remedy is excellent.

5. State your needs and the kids needs firmly, without apology.

6. Remember, money is one of the key ways abusers choose to control their victims.

7. Stop the direct deposit and advise him of the amount you will contribute to joint bills. If he fights, discontinue communication. Period. Call your attorney and cops when necessary.

8. He needs to meet you with the kids half way on the road to remove the load of gas being just on you.

9. Your H also needs time with the kids, so unless you two move closer together logistically, I'm not sure of another remedy.


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## MamaOfTwo24

I'm not concerned about taking them to his house as our son's daycare is in the same town that I work in. What bothers me the most is having to then go back to his house the following morning at 5:30am. He said he can't change his hours at work and I say they're not going to daycare that early, so how do we compromise (He CAN change his hours at work but he won't because he, understandably, needs to the money)


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## Blossom Leigh

MamaOfTwo24 said:


> I'm not concerned about taking them to his house as our son's daycare is in the same town that I work in. What bothers me the most is having to then go back to his house the following morning at 5:30am. He said he can't change his hours at work and I say they're not going to daycare that early, so how do we compromise (He CAN change his hours at work but he won't because he, understandably, needs to the money)


Sorry, but his kids needs are above his need for money.... He can find another way to make it.


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## neglected42

Perhaps if he gets them every week-end you could cut out at least one of the week-days. Does he work week-ends? He needs to make decisions based on the needs of the kids, not his own. Taking a child to daycare for 12 hours a day to suit his need of having his children around is selfish. I looked into a mediator when I was looking at the option of separation. They work with both the spouses looking for compromise that always puts the needs of the kids first. Perhaps he needs to hear he is being selfish from someone other than you. Hopefully he will listen.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Maybe it's my selfishness, but I don't want him to have them every weekend. I feel as though the weeks are rushed and hurried so when I have them on my weekend, we're able to kick back and relax, hang out and go do fun things that we aren't able to do during the week.


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## turnera

Have you tried just telling him if he wants to see them, he can come to YOU?


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## MamaOfTwo24

Hi all. It will be 2 months on the 12th since we've been out. And I'm not sure how to help my 8 year old daughter cope. I'm considering taking her to a therapist but think it might be too soon (?). Whenever I get them back from their dad (they were with him this past weekend), she is very "I just want to be home with dad", "this isnt our home", "when are we all going to live together again" type things. I'm not sure how to handle these questions as when they are with him, he tells him things like "your mom is the one who wanted to move out, your mom is the one who wanted to separate". He's also doing all kinds of fun things with them all weekend, things that I begged and begged to do as a family when we were still together and he always refused. And that's all fine and good, I'm glad he's doing fun things with them however, our daughter hadn't opened her book bag all weekend, so I had to go through everything, make her sit down and do her homework, read, etc. And she was so mad at me because she wanted to play games and hang out together however we couldn't do that because she had all types of homework that needed to be done last night, so I was the bad guy, making her do all kinds of work when her dad did all kinds of fun things with her all weekend. 

I just feel so awful because I can't imagine what she must be thinking and going through right now. How do I make this easier on her? I also cannot talk to her father about it because, if you haven't been able to tell from my precious posts, he's the most manipulative naricissist you could ever meet.


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## turnera

She should ALREADY be in therapy - both because she has a narcissist father and because she's been kicked out of her home.

Oh, and because she's now not keeping up in school.


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## MamaOfTwo24

She's actually doing very well in school, I had a meeting with her teacher last week. But she could easily start falling behind if it keeps up like this. 

Ok, will look into therapists tomorrow morning and hopefully take her this week.


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## neglected42

So sorry you have to endure this nonsense! The therapy should help your daughter. You're husband is definitely trying to make you look like the bad guy through blame. I am sure this is something therapists are familiar with, and know how to handle. As far as your husband running around like a circus monkey, trying to make sure life is all about a good time with him. Let him. He will get tired, and your daughter will still expect a good time. She will be the manipulator soon enough. Kids may not love routine, rules, and discipline, but they know deep down it is for their own good. They feel grounded when these things are in place. 

The homework is an issue. The expectation with shared custody is that both parents provide a good stable home. Proper nutrition, decent bedtimes, time for homework, etc. Perhaps before you take him to task on this, you could try the light hearted approach. In an offhand manner, you could mention to him that you spoke to her teacher and she is doing very well in school. Mention that her homework for the week-end was not completed and perhaps he forgot about it. Could he make sure she gets it done this week-end? Just the fact that you spoke to the teacher may get him to do the right thing. He wants to look like the good guy. If her marks drop because her homework is not done, that may reflect poorly on him.


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## MamaOfTwo24

Just a quick update. I suppose I should move this to 'Going Through..' at this point. Things have somewhat calmed between the two of us, he admitted to seeing a bunch of different women shortly after the seperation initially occurred and to be completely honest (and this may seem weird) but I was somewhat relieved at the discovery.

A few things have happened, the major thing being him asking our kids to lie to me. The one and only thing I asked him was to please not bring other women around our children. (The most recent works in a restaurant that he takes the kids into all the time and I said I didn't want them in there while she was working) He agreed, we mutually agreed. I picked them up one Sunday evening after it being his weekend with them, and I asked my 3 yo son how his weekend was and he said "We can't tell you what we did today". So, I kind of let it go for the time being, but he brought it up again when we were in the car and my 8 yo daughter said "You're not supposed to tell her!". And apparently they went to eat at the place that she works. I asked to please not ever, ever ask our children to lie to me. 

Since then, I've started talking to a guy, just as friends. He keeps me busy when I don't have the kids, treats me in ways I've never ever been treated. He'll tell me I'm beautiful and I'll catch myself saying things like "You don't mean that", simply I'm not used to it. He's really a sweet guy. I don't let it interefere with my parenting, however. I only ever see him on the weekends that I don't have my kids. He doesn't have kids and has been amazingly supportive and understanding. 

Have 2 places lined up for the kids and I, I'm hoping to hear back from both of them this week. Neither will be ready until mid-late March. Which is fine, staying with my parents hasn't been too bad.


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## turnera

I'm sorry, but please don't date. You're not ready. I know it feels good, but you're not ready. It's going to mess things up.


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## Jmurphy

Hi guys, I don’t know if this is the right place/thread to post this, but I desperately need help. I will be married next 3 months, and I feel guilty because my fiance don’t know much about me, even we’ve been together for 4 years. What she doesn’t know is that I’m a drug user, I just manage to recover last year, without her knowing it. But last month, I’ve got a relapse, I start using it again and I feel guilty (really guilty) but I can’t resist myself. Only my mom knows about this, and she wants me to move with her in Nevada to attend some drug treatment program before my girlfriend will know about this, but I don’t want to leave her. I really don’t know what will I do now, my mind is like going to explode thinking that I will be far from my girlfriend.


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## Blossom Leigh

Start your own thread... You will get more replies


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## daisybush

Why dont you talk directly to your husband if he will understand in good way id good else you must think about second option. 

http://www.californialoveconsultant.com


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## Jmurphy

Blossom Leigh said:


> Start your own thread... You will get more replies


Yeah, but I think I'm just fine, if I don't get much response.


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## Blossom Leigh

Doesn't surprise me since your drug use resumed. No replies means no challange, no accountability, thus you are ok with that. Unless, you've stopped since your last post.


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## Jmurphy

I actually started my therapy and counseling at Addiction Hope Treatment Program two weeks ago. I confess everything to my fiance. I took the risk and I wanted to be honest with her. We had a fight for a little while but she understand me and now she is supporting me and helping me to be fully recover again. She gave me another chance and that didn't change her mind from getting married. I will start a new life with her, this time I will do the right thing.


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## EleGirl

Jmurphy said:


> I actually started my therapy and counseling at Addiction Hope Treatment Program two weeks ago. I confess everything to my fiance. I took the risk and I wanted to be honest with her. We had a fight for a little while but she understand me and now she is supporting me and helping me to be fully recover again. She gave me another chance and that didn't change her mind from getting married. I will start a new life with her, this time I will do the right thing.


You need to start your own thread. You will get responses. High jacking an old thread does not work well because people are going to read the first post, see that it's old and leave the thread.

You need your own thread if you want to get input/help.


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