# Seeking advice on reconciliation



## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

We have been together for 21 years and married for 17 years, with two kids aged 10 and 11. For the first 10 years of our relationship, everything was perfect. We were deeply in love, and I felt he was the center of the universe for me. For ten years we talked every day, even when we were in two different continents. I never had any doubt we would be together forever. He never wanted to have kids. At the beginning when I was young I didn’t care much one way or the other. But as I got older, I started to really want to have kids. Eventually he agreed to have kids because he thought that would make me happy. 

After our kids were born, things became totally chaotic. We both have high pressure professional jobs that require long work hours. Very often one or both of us had to work late at night, on the weekend or take business trips. Between our jobs and the constant demands of small kids, we barely had time to talk to each other. Then we discovered one of our kids had special needs. I threw myself into researching the issue, finding solutions, following up on various treatment plans. I was completely burned out among all these demands put on me. He complained that I did not show care and love for him and was not emotionally available. I wanted him to “tough it out” and I said we should focus on the kids together. My children needed me because they were completely dependent and vulnerable. I felt it would not be right to put the kids after him at such a time. I was resentful that he didn’t throw himself all over the kids’ needs like I did and I was fighting my battle alone with little help. We talked less and less and would go months without meaningful communication. 

Five years ago, he made some really bad investment decision, and I said some mean words while I was really mad. I was so convinced for so many years that our relationship was meant to last forever and would survive any circumstance that it never entered my mind he might think otherwise. Thus I was totally shocked when he said we should divorce. From my perspective we did not have any irreconcilable differences. We had some tough time juggling our jobs and the kids, but I thought we were in it together and we’d all come out fine. It was the worst moment of my life. I lost my sense of security and felt as if the world was collapsing around me. He mentioned the D word several times in the first couple of months, then didn’t bring it up again. I tread gingerly around him for fear of inadvertently triggering it again. While seemingly the crisis was averted, I felt like my love for him was somehow killed. Maybe it was because of the lack of security. I felt that I couldn’t trust him like before. I felt that I had worked so hard for my kids and sacrificed so much, yet he never appreciated that and instead wanted to leave me. I felt betrayed. Things went on more or less smoothly for another four years, however that total trust and closeness between us was gone. 

Since last year, I again devoted all of my time to one of my kids’ special needs when it arose. Work got really busy too. Initially things were fine. We bought a property together last year. He showed willingness to support the family if necessary, at least through words. Back then he wasn’t thinking of leaving. Then at the beginning of this year, I was really stressed out by all the demands on me. I felt I was doing everything all by myself. I envied my friends’ husbands who were hands-on with their kids, while he never took any initiative about planning anything for the kids. When he’s home, he just locked himself up in the study doing stuff on his computer. In April, when I said he never helped with the kids, he blew up and said he’s helping by “not killing himself”. He said he really hated his job, and all the commotion at home with the kids made him extremely miserable. He felt that his life had gone horribly wrong. Nothing was what he would have wanted for himself. He was so disappointed in how his life turned out that he seriously considered killing himself. Then he said we should get a divorce because we had no relationship left. He wanted a change. He wanted to regain control of his life. He felt that he didn’t have much time left because his father had died at an age that was just 10 years older than his current age. I did not see this coming. I thought we were over that already, and it seemed to me there was not anything major to warrant triggering this topic. I said we should work together to build our life and raise the kids, instead of turning against each other. He said we had already turned against each other a long time ago. We didn’t talk about this again for several weeks. In May he said he had not changed his mind, but did not pursue the topic much further. We were busy with work and the kids’ summer activities and visits to grandparents’ during June and July, and this topic was not brought up. In August, he brought it up again and said I should find a lawyer for myself. He wanted a collaborative divorce. He said he wanted to move out, but before he did so we should work out custody arrangements. I was angry that I was putting all the hard work into our family and kids and he kept wanting to divorce over and over. At the moment I felt I should not have to be with someone who didn’t care about me. I said fine, move out if you want. The discussion then just stopped there. He began to be really nice and pleasant after that. We got along really well, had a lot of nice chats, and our relationship seemed quite good. For a while I almost thought the crisis had blown over. Then yesterday when I asked him to help one of the kids with math, he said “there are a few lawyers you could talk to. You should get a lawyer”. I’m devastated. On the one hand, I am resentful about his lack of participation in our family life and him wanting to leave us all behind. On the other hand, I cherish memories of our wonderful relationship in the past and I do not want our kids to have divorced parents. All this is too horrible to comprehend. It still feels surreal. We have a major disconnect in that I felt my life was fine, despite all the stress from work and kids, I still enjoyed life and had fun chatting with friends through social media, for example. I looked forward to the future. I don’t understand why he feels his life is so terrible that he’d want to kill himself. He said the primary source of unhappiness comes from doing the job he hates, yet he doesn’t want to leave the job because it pays well and he gets along well with his colleagues. I feel that if we both tried we ought to be able to return to old times. I feel that we should at least try, for us and for our kids’ sake. But he seems completely checked out. I do want to reconcile, but I don’t know what I can do at this point.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Welcome to TAM. I'm sorry you're needing help but you've found the right place. There are lots of people here willing to give very helpful advice. It might help if you tell us a little more of what has precipitated his desire to end the marriage???


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Kids, how many and rough age range?

Any history of infidelity by either spouse?

Are you/him from a broken home?

What's his reasoning?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

First thing, it's important that you hang in there emotionally and physically. 

This is a rough patch that will pass, be it one way or another. 

Just a cautionary comment at this time, ad more information is made known to TAM.

Welcome, peace and warm wishes to you and H as things are worked on.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

It could be that he just has a low tolerance for stress and chaos. Before having kids, people don't always know what kids will be like or how much time they will take. He may be emotionally limited and he feels overwhelmed by everything. The fact that he's talking about killing himself and seems so depressed is a pretty serious sign. I don't think he will actually kill himself, but I see that as a sign that he sees the future as bleak and without much hope. 

Are there things that could be done to drastically reduce the amount of stress and time pressure in your lives? Could you take a big drop in lifestyle so he can find a lower-stress job? Could you get a house with one of your parents so that they can help take care of the kids? Or you guys switch off 100% child duty on alternate days. So Monday you do everything, on Tuesday he does everything, etc. That way he has some days where he can have total freedom. I'm just thinking of crazy ideas to get your imagination going. 

One thing to keep in mind is that being a parent is likely going to get rougher in the next few years. Your kids are at the end of the golden ages where they think parents are awesome. They're going to be entering the tween and teen years, and that brings a whole different level of stress and chaos. 

When he talks about divorce, ask him what his thoughts are on custody. If he wants 50/50, ask him how he would feel being a single parent when he had the kids. It seems like that would be hard and he might not get the relief he seeks.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

rainsmirage said:


> ...He never wanted to have kids. At the beginning when I was young I didn’t care much one way or the other. But as I got older, I started to really want to have kids. Eventually he agreed to have kids because he thought that would make me happy...
> 
> He complained that I did not show care and love for him and was not emotionally available. I wanted him to “tough it out” and I said we should focus on the kids together...
> 
> ...


Respectfully. I know you're in pain. But you aren't paying attention to your own marriage here. I get why - kids are hard, and I can't even comprehend how hard having a special needs kid is. Especially when you're handling all that and a job on your own.

But the hard truth is, *he didn't want kids.* You changed your mind, and he went along with it. He probably shouldn't have, because from that point on, kids became your problem and not his. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying it's what happened.

And I'm saying that from that point on, he told you several times that he was out. That he didn't want this life. And you didn't listen to any of that.

But it's time for you to listen now. He doesn't want this life. He doesn't want you. Let him go. There's many, many mistakes in this marriage, but not all of them are on him. Some big ones are on you. Including having kids with a guy that you knew didn't want them. Including having him try to leave several times and you convincing him not to. Including willfully choosing your kids - even though you kind of had to - over your marriage.

I suspect that there's more than a little selfishness going on... on both sides. Read your own words here that I've edited down. See the big picture, at least try to objectively. He hasn't been in this marriage for a long time. But you haven't actually been in this for a long time, either, and you've been just fine with that as long as you got what you wanted. Right?

Let him go.


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## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

No doubt I also made a lot of mistakes. I regret some of the decisions I made. I thought we both changed our minds about having kids and he would be a good father. Our situation is we have a nanny and I'm doing pretty much everything for the kids.

I want to try reconciliation. I feel we still have the foundation of our relationship --we were deeply in love for a decade; there's no other man/woman. I really don't want to just give up. I want him to be happy too, and am willing to do whatever I can to see him happy. I believe we can make this happen within our marriage. I'm hoping he'd be willing to try. 

What should I do now? Need advice from people who have gone through reconciliation. Thanks


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

rainsmirage said:


> No doubt I also made a lot of mistakes. I regret some of the decisions I made. I thought we both changed our minds about having kids and he would be a good father. Our situation is we have a nanny and I'm doing pretty much everything for the kids.
> 
> I want to try reconciliation. I feel we still have the foundation of our relationship --we were deeply in love for a decade; there's no other man/woman. I really don't want to just give up. I want him to be happy too, and am willing to do whatever I can to see him happy. I believe we can make this happen within our marriage. I'm hoping he'd be willing to try.
> 
> What should I do now? Need advice from people who have gone through reconciliation. Thanks


I think you need to ask if he also wants that and if so, is he willing to go to counseling with you? I don't see the two of you fixing all of this without help. But, if he won't do that and just wants out, I think you're going to have to let him go. I know that's not the answer you want but it is what it is. You can bring a horse to water and all. You will just make the pain that much worse by trying to hold onto something that you can't possibly keep a hold on.

I'm sorry.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

rainsmirage said:


> No doubt I also made a lot of mistakes. I regret some of the decisions I made. I thought we both changed our minds about having kids and he would be a good father. Our situation is we have a nanny and I'm doing pretty much everything for the kids.
> 
> I want to try reconciliation. I feel we still have the foundation of our relationship --we were deeply in love for a decade; there's no other man/woman. I really don't want to just give up. I want him to be happy too, and am willing to do whatever I can to see him happy. I believe we can make this happen within our marriage. I'm hoping he'd be willing to try.
> 
> What should I do now? Need advice from people who have gone through reconciliation. Thanks


I think that, rather than approach counseling from a "marriage" standpoint, you need to look at it more as a "what's the best path for each of us" thing. Or I should say, it should be presented to your husband that way. You need to detach yourself a bit from the idea that the marriage has to be saved, because the more you try and make that case, the more likely you'll see him walk away from the family. He may come around. He may not. But he's looking for a life of his own choosing. All the options need to be out there on the table for him to choose from.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

rainsmirage said:


> No doubt I also made a lot of mistakes. I regret some of the decisions I made. I thought we both changed our minds about having kids and he would be a good father. Our situation is we have a nanny and I'm doing pretty much everything for the kids.
> 
> I want to try reconciliation. I feel we still have the foundation of our relationship --we were deeply in love for a decade; there's no other man/woman. I really don't want to just give up. I want him to be happy too, and am willing to do whatever I can to see him happy. I believe we can make this happen within our marriage. I'm hoping he'd be willing to try.
> 
> What should I do now? Need advice from people who have gone through reconciliation. Thanks


He was jealous of the children and resented the fact that you needed to spend extra time with a special needs child.

Well, OK, now what? 

Would counselling help?

And if he has genuinely had suicidal thoughts, he needs to address that. But that was a classic example of reverse psychology he used there. Sort of putting on you and your children the fact that he had decided not to kill himself? Nice.


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## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

I think he felt neglected and uncared for for years, which looking back now is largely the case. Mostly because we were both very busy with work and didn't have much free time, and I spent whatever free time I had on the kids. The other part was when we all had time, he never wanted to participate in activities as a family. He didn't want to go see movies or take vacations together or go out with friends. He said he didn't enjoy any of those and should not be forced to do them. So for years I just took the kids to various things without him. We grew further and further apart because we had almost no time together, up to a point we had little to talk about. He probably felt lonely and left out, with no one caring for his needs. For the past month we actually had a lot more pleasant conversations than we did in a long time. I almost took that as a positive sign that we could turn things around


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I wouldn't call the stage of the process you are at reconciliation. I think of reconciliation as when the spouses want to stay in the marriage and are working through the issues. Right now, you're the only one who wants to stay married. So you need to take a step back and think about what would change his mind so that he would want to stay in the marriage instead of getting divorced. When you both are trying to stay in the marriage, then you'll be at reconciliation.

If I try to put myself into his head, one thing I think might help is if he lived on his own for a while. That would give him some time de-stress. It would give him the chance to see what life is like on his own and decide if he wants that or if he wants to live with his family. It sounds like he's not really in the parent or husband role anyway, so if he's living somewhere else it probably won't be that big of a change. I would propose it to him as you want to stay married, but you more want him to be happy whatever that means to him. It's not necessarily a separation leading to divorce. It's more like a retreat where he can just be with his thoughts and figure out what he wants.

If he does move out and wants to come back for dinner or whatever, I think that might be okay. If he comes home from time to time and has fun and sees all that he is missing, it might turn his heart around. Really, the first thing you need is for him to change his mindset. If he can decide that he wants to be a husband and father, he can be happy with that.

Reading between the lines, I get the sense that there's not a lot of intimacy between you. That alone is often a marriage killer. Based on how things are, I wouldn't necessarily try to address it right now. I guess feel it out and do what feels right. But regardless, it's very difficult to have a happy marriage without happy intimacy. Whether that's fixed short term or long term, it needs to be there.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can't reconcile when only one person wants that. His problems are bigger than just the lack of connection to you. He didn't want to be a parent and apparently hasn't ever adjusted. Sounds like he wants a restart on his life. He could change his mind, of course, but he may not. You need a plan for going forward without him because you may have to.


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## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

Our marriage has been somewhat dysfunctional for a long time due to lack of communication and time together. I was aware of this but was too overwhelmed with other stuff to face it. Also I was not happy with lack of support from him so didn't feel like going out of my way to ask about his needs. I see all of that which led us to where we are.

Our interactions have been pleasant, and I don't know for sure whether he'd want reconciliation or not. How should I ask about this? Should I initiate serious discussions about his intention? Or let the pleasant interactions continue with the hope they'd last? How often should we have serious discussions? I'm afraid talking about it too much might escalate the situation.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

He keeps saying "I'm miserable." You almost seem like you believe if you try long enough and 'tough it out', he will change his mind. All of this is because there were 10 good years according to you.

IMO: talking will not escalate the situation--he has always returned to his stance (wants out) and you keep hoping for a miracle. Right now he does not want to be a dad or husband. 

Were there problems/significant differences in y'all's families of origin? I'm sensing that you are the driving force in this relationship and he will finally 'break' if things do not change.

Anyway, he needs to see his physician about his depression and whatever else might be going on. Life like those 10 good years is NOT going to return if you keep doing the same thing and are expecting different results. 

Basically, it sounds like both of you feel unappreciated and betrayed. Have y'all ever had counseling? What does the nanny do if you do everything for the children? He is at a crisis point in his life and therefore so are you. This quandary needs more than TAM right now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Just thinking of things you can both do to reduce stress. Is it absolutely necessary financially for you both to have such busy jobs? Could you both find jobs that are less hours and/or less stressful? When you have young children it rarely works when both have busy full time jobs. 
What does your nanny do if you do everything for the children? Is she with you all the time or just part of the time while you work?

Would he agree to have some sort of counselling? He seems to need it if he is threatening suicide, although that may well be a manipulation tactic. Would he agree to have counselling with you? 

To be honest it sounds as if you wouldn't be any worse off if he did leave. He does nothing with the family, does nothing with the children, and spends all his time shut off in his study doing goodness knows what. The whole situation with him is causing you extra stress when you have enough to deal with. It may be the case that you will actually feel more relaxed and less stressed if he did go, he clearly has no intentions of being a responsible husband or father.

In your position I would say just let him go. If he does nothing with the children now they may not miss him much anyway and you may just have a happier healthier home. When and if he does have them for a time as their dad, it will give you a break and he may actually give them some one on one attention for a change. I wouldn't want to be with a man who didn't want to be with me, you may need to suggest he leaves and see what happens. Say something like, if you are not happy with me and the children its better if you go. 
Than see, who knows he may just miss you all and be prepared to work on things.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I’ve seen this play out a number of times amongst people I know. The wife gets pregnant and from that day on she beats her “Im a mommy” drum louder and loader until she can’t even spell the word wife. Years later she can’t figure out why her husband is leaving. Even parents who have only one perfectly healthy child find ways to make sure it consumes every second of their life if that’s what they want.


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## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

I don't plan to continue doing the same thing and expect different results. I want to do different things. I want to change the dynamics of the relationship so that it works for both of us. I do not want him to be miserable. In the past we never really talked things over. We simply didn't have much communication. It's hard to talk at home because the kids are around all the time. Over the past six months we only had four brief conversations about it. I know this is ridiculous. I feel that more communication would help us understand each other and possibly draw us closer. Last time we talked he also said communication was good and helped him and we should have more communication. But I also don't want to push for it for fear of backfiring. When we interacted around the house everything was pleasant, and it's almost like we have no problem at all. This all feels so surreal.


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## rainsmirage (Sep 26, 2019)

Above was in response to post #15. Sorry my mobile version doesn't seem to let me quote


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

rainsmirage said:


> I don't plan to continue doing the same thing and expect different results. I want to do different things. I want to change the dynamics of the relationship so that it works for both of us. I do not want him to be miserable. In the past we never really talked things over. We simply didn't have much communication. It's hard to talk at home because the kids are around all the time. Over the past six months we only had four brief conversations about it. I know this is ridiculous. I feel that more communication would help us understand each other and possibly draw us closer. Last time we talked he also said communication was good and helped him and we should have more communication. But I also don't want to push for it for fear of backfiring. When we interacted around the house everything was pleasant, and it's almost like we have no problem at all. This all feels so surreal.


 
Are you or both of you conflict avoidant? You've had 4 "brief" conversations? You both need to send the kids off for the weekend with someone else and then you guys need some serious quality time together to include lots of talk about the marriage. It's uncomfortable, but try to really listen. 

It sounds like he has already seen an attorney. I'd recommend that you go see an attorney to get advice on how you should handle it if and when he does file. It doesn't mean that you have to move forward with anything or even file for divorce. However, he's giving you several hints; you need to take them. 

YOU can't make him happy. You can find out what he's missing from you in this marriage and then you can try to work on those things. But it's a 2 way street and you can't force him to do his part. Get the kids out of the house for the weekend, and start having deep heart-to-hearts with him.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

I generally don't respond on TAM anymore and you have been offered mostly good advice. I am going to try and gently lay this out from a perspective I share at least in part with your husband. This is your life and you have the agency and autonomy to decide what your priorities are. Broadly, I recognize your responsibilities: 

-Children
-Partner
-Occupation
-Family & Friends

Your only problem is that you and your partner do not agree on the prioritization of these responsibilities, and the continuation of this condition has created resentments on both sides. At face value, it appears your husband holds you first in both thought and action. Your husband's actions are an attempt to manipulate you, in a passive aggressive way, to acquiesce to his priorities. I also tried this some years ago with equally painful results. 

There are three parts to this reconciliation. First, you will need to work to heal the resentments that have festered over time. I suggest "Hold me Tight" (Susan Johnson approach). Second, you and your husband must come to terms with your current reality and agree on the prioritization of responsibilities. This is a tall order and as others have suggested it will require MC to provide guidance and guardrails. And third, you must recommit and rebond as partners. This is a time commitment to one another. Research (and EleGirl) have recommended 15 hours per week of direct contact time.

There is no nobility in prolonging the suffering of another person, even if you believe you hold the moral high ground. It's possible to heal this relationship, if both partners are willing to participate and eventually go all in. Kindest Regards!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

rainsmirage said:


> No doubt I also made a lot of mistakes. I regret some of the decisions I made. I thought we both changed our minds about having kids and he would be a good father. Our situation is we have a nanny and I'm doing pretty much everything for the kids.
> 
> I want to try reconciliation. I feel we still have the foundation of our relationship --we were deeply in love for a decade; there's no other man/woman. I really don't want to just give up. I want him to be happy too, and am willing to do whatever I can to see him happy. I believe we can make this happen within our marriage. I'm hoping he'd be willing to try.
> 
> What should I do now? Need advice from people who have gone through reconciliation. Thanks


This is painful but you cannot nice him back into the marriage. Give him what he wants. Contact a lawyer see what your options are. Then go to a counsellor for yourself. Do the 180 on him. Emotionally detach, focus on your health and well being, let him go. He has told you over and over. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. It is likely you will be good co parents. It is also possible he is cheating. Most men do not leave a marriage unless someone is waiting in the wings.


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