# Any of you guys feel like you're in "marriage prison"?



## BeachGuy

I'm really depressed today. It's just sinking in that I'm completely stuck. I have everything to lose and very very little to gain by filing for divorce. I feel completely and totally trapped.


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## Mavash.

Why do you think you have "very very little" to gain by filing?


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## CandieGirl

I'd be more frightened and depressed at the prospect of living in a miserable relationship for the rest of my life. Don't be afraid. Do something about it.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

My first marriage was. I was even held hostage by my ex spouse in my own home. I left and now I met the man of my dreams. I couldn't be any happier.

I'm so very sorry your having a bad time. I wish you the best of luck.


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## BeachGuy

Mavash. said:


> Why do you think you have "very very little" to gain by filing?


Maybe that was a poor choice of words...but all I can think of is everything I'll lose. To go sit in a rented apartment alone 75% of the time and pay alimony for the rest of my life.

I've worked very hard to get where I am. Nice house, paid for cars, two wonderful children, dog, cat, "stuff".... I know I've said this before but no matter how you slice it, she'll come out smelling like a rose and I will get the very short-end. The writings on the wall; 20+ year marriage, she hasn't worked in 14 years, "maintain her lifestyle"....all that crap. And there's always her mentioning she might have to "move back home" if she can't survive here after a divorce.

Someone told me yet another story the other day of a friend who divorced his wife in FL and was ordered to pay alimony for life.


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## Toffer

Marriage prison?

If I was in prison, I would be getting all the sex I need!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that. 

Get a GREAT lawyer. It will be worth the money you save in the long run


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## MEM2020

BG,
Let me get this straight, given a choice between:
1. Nice stuff and daily proximity to someone who is not respectful to you and does not love you
and
2. Less stuff, less "status" associated with stuff, and the potential to be with someone who does love and respect you

If you choose door number 1, you are conveying to the kids that money and status matter more than love and self respect. 

Do you not wish to at least have a chance at happiness?





BeachGuy said:


> Maybe that was a poor choice of words...but all I can think of is everything I'll lose. To go sit in a rented apartment alone 75% of the time and pay alimony for the rest of my life.
> 
> I've worked very hard to get where I am. Nice house, paid for cars, two wonderful children, dog, cat, "stuff".... I know I've said this before but no matter how you slice it, she'll come out smelling like a rose and I will get the very short-end. The writings on the wall; 20+ year marriage, she hasn't worked in 14 years, "maintain her lifestyle"....all that crap. And there's always her mentioning she might have to "move back home" if she can't survive here after a divorce.
> 
> Someone told me yet another story the other day of a friend who divorced his wife in FL and was ordered to pay alimony for life.


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## Dad&Hubby

Maybe I missed something but.

What is actually wrong in your marriage where you feel so trapped?


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## GTdad

Your prison is fear and resentment, not marriage. Once I understood that, and the fact that I could handle anything that might happen, I simply walked out of my prison. 

Lo and behold, I'm still married. I have to consider the possibility in my case that my fear and resentment were bigger problems than my wife.


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## BeachGuy

MEM11363 said:


> BG,
> Let me get this straight, given a choice between:
> 1. Nice stuff and daily proximity to someone who is not respectful to you and does not love you
> and
> 2. Less stuff, less "status" associated with stuff, and the potential to be with someone who does love and respect you
> 
> If you choose door number 1, you are conveying to the kids that money and status matter more than love and self respect.
> 
> Do you not wish to at least have a chance at happiness?


It's mostly about giving up living under the same roof as my children 24/7. And yes, there is some bitterness that she'll more than likely get the house and furniture.


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## BeachGuy

Dad&Hubby said:


> Maybe I missed something but.
> 
> What is actually wrong in your marriage where you feel so trapped?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/36134-any-other-guys-parent-child-marriage.html


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## 40isthenew20

Sometimes. Just when I think that my lame-ass wife is turning the corner sexualiy, she acts like a twat and bri gs everything back down to square one. I have kids with her and do genuinely love her, so I don't want to go anywhere. Just can't figure her out.


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## gbrad

BeachGuy said:


> It's mostly about giving up living under the same roof as my children 24/7. And yes, there is some bitterness that she'll more than likely get the house and furniture.


This is where I believe that alimony should not exist. Child support is one thing, but alimony is ridiculous. People should have to support themselves. I am lucky to know that if I got divorced there would be no alimony requested either way. It is wrong. 
You are the one working, you SHOULD get the house. 
I feel for you.


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## Jason439

BeachGuy. I read your original post. Although I haven't tried as hard as you to save my marriage. (very little effort on my part) I want out, but also feel imprisoned. 

I've been reading a lot on this forum and done a lot of soul searching lately. I've come to the conclusion, that my wife can't get past her trust issues despite the fact I have not cheated on her. She has become almost delusional in her constant accusations of me cheating. 

I can't see a way forward with her if she refuses to get counseling. According to her, I'm the one that needs it. 

I've decided that my marriage is over and I want out. Trouble is we have 2 boys 6 & 8 and I can't come to grips with how to make it easy for them. I feel they will be devastated. So for now, I'm stuck in my own marriage prison as well.


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## Vegemite

BG and others, I can relate. My wife is a serial cheat. Some would think I'm crazy to still be with her. But my 2 children is what keeps me there. I adore my kids, and it's a powerful thing to stop you leaving the marriage.

I've heard many times that you shouldn't stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids, which is great in theory, but has proven to be hard in practice, from my own personal experience.


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## Spousal Unit

Marriage prison?  Yeah, I can relate, although I am coming from a very different place than you. I am a SAHD dependent on my wife for income. I can’t go out and get a F/T job as we have a special needs child who needs someone to be with him at all times when at home. My wife is (or soon will be) going through menopause. She is alternately b***chy or indifferent to me. Sex is infrequent, but it can still be pretty good sometimes. It gives me hope.

I still love my wife and don’t want to leave her or have a fling, but my situation upsets me often and depresses me sometimes. Today has not been a good day as DW turned me down again last night but I try not to hold it against her. I am committed to making the relationship work and will be implementing the MMSL guidelines.


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## larry.gray

Spousal Unit said:


> Marriage prison?  Yeah, I can relate, although I am coming from a very different place than you. I am a SAHD dependent on my wife for income. I can’t go out and get a F/T job as we have a special needs child who needs someone to be with him at all times when at home. My wife is (or soon will be) going through menopause. She is alternately b***chy or indifferent to me. Sex is infrequent, but it can still be pretty good sometimes. It gives me hope.
> 
> I still love my wife and don’t want to leave her or have a fling, but my situation upsets me often and depresses me sometimes. Today has not been a good day as DW turned me down again last night but I try not to hold it against her. I am committed to making the relationship work and will be implementing the MMSL guidelines.


I bet you're going to set of some real alarm bells for some members. We've had a spate of SAHD who've been cheated on recently.


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## donny64

BeachGuy said:


> I'm really depressed today. It's just sinking in that I'm completely stuck. I have everything to lose and very very little to gain by filing for divorce. I feel completely and totally trapped.


You're wrong. No amount of money, time, work, material things, or acceptance of those who do not understand can measure in any way to what it feels like to feel truly and deeply loved by someone. There is no comparison. Been there, done that.

My old man had a saying...."better to live a day as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb". To translate that to a divorce situation, I'd sooner live destitute, living in a trailer, driving a 15 year old vehicle, and seeing my children on weekends (when they can see a truly happy father) and search for and find a happy relationship than I would to live in a mansion, driving the finest cars, and having my children see me unhappy daily living with an unappreciative, manipulative, mean spirited and / or uncaring woman.

As a man, there is nothing so powerful as the love of a woman who truly loves you. And nothing so soul crushing as one who does not.

Forget about everything else. To "gain" you may need to first "lose".


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## Vegemite

donny64 said:


> You're wrong. No amount of money, time, work, material things, or acceptance of those who do not understand can measure in any way to what it feels like to feel truly and deeply loved by someone. There is no comparison. Been there, done that.
> 
> My old man had a saying...."better to live a day as a lion than a lifetime as a lamb". To translate that to a divorce situation, I'd sooner live destitute, living in a trailer, driving a 15 year old vehicle, and seeing my children on weekends (when they can see a truly happy father) and search for and find a happy relationship than I would to live in a mansion, driving the finest cars, and having my children see me unhappy daily living with an unappreciative,
> manipulative, mean spirited and / or uncaring woman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Donny, that's really solid. Great post.
> 
> I think I've believed that in my 2 years post Dday. It's just difficult in so many ways, especially when you have a difficult, manipulative, narcissistic spouse.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> As a man, there is nothing so powerful as the love of a woman who truly loves you. And nothing so soul crushing as one who does not.
> 
> Forget about everything else. To "gain" you may need to first "lose".


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## Vegemite

Damn, I wish I new how to drive this IPad!


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## Sbrown

One thing I have learned from my son in the 17 months he has been on this earth, is that he is watching EVERY move I make. Your children are watching you, they are learning life's lessons from YOU! Would you advise your children to leave if they were in your shoes?


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## BeachGuy

Sbrown said:


> One thing I have learned from my son in the 17 months he has been on this earth, is that he is watching EVERY move I make. Your children are watching you, they are learning life's lessons from YOU! Would you advise your children to leave if they were in your shoes?


My children have no idea that my wife hasn't had sex with me in 11 years. They're too young to understand most of this. Which is another blow to me. All they see is dad being unhappy towards mom. And mom is the sweet, innocent, never says a mean word to anybody type person. I'm also pretty darn certain all she's told her parents is that "BeachGuy's not happy and wants to leave". I promise she hasn't told them we haven't had sex in so long. Just saying the word embarrases her.

But in answer to your question...thinking about what MY parents are telling me now...I really don't know what I'd advise my adult child if they were in this situation. My parents and family are VERY sympathetic towards my situation, but they're just as much on the fence as I am about whether or not it's worth going through a divorce.


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## thunderstruck

BeachGuy said:


> ...I really don't know what I'd advise my adult child if they were in this situation.


I'm going to call BS on you for that line. A close friend hit me with this a few months ago - "If your son walked up to you and told you that he was in your current situation, what would you tell him?" That question floored me, and after a long pause, I said I'd tell him to run like hell. I bet you'd do the same.

I can relate to a lot of your situation. I've somewhat assumed the dad role when it comes to my W. I get s** b/c I cranked up my s** rank, and b/c I told my W that I refuse to live in a s**less marriage. Still, it's soul-stealing duty s**. I have two kids at home, so I'm staying for now. I find my own ways to stay happy - hobbies, friends, my kids, exercise, etc. I don't think I'm miserable at this point, but if it got to that, or she cut off s**, or she cheated...I'd divorce, and move into a tiny apartment to get away from the daily misery. And I'd have a big FN smile on my face.

I think you need to do a lot of soul-searching, and really think about why you're staying and choosing to die a little each day. What do you fear?


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## Spousal Unit

BeachGuy said:


> My children have no idea that my wife hasn't had sex with me in 11 years. They're too young to understand most of this. Which is another blow to me. All they see is dad being unhappy towards mom. And mom is the sweet, innocent, never says a mean word to anybody type person. I'm also pretty darn certain all she's told her parents is that "BeachGuy's not happy and wants to leave". I promise she hasn't told them we haven't had sex in so long. Just saying the word embarrases her.
> 
> But in answer to your question...thinking about what MY parents are telling me now...I really don't know what I'd advise my adult child if they were in this situation. My parents and family are VERY sympathetic towards my situation, but they're just as much on the fence as I am about whether or not it's worth going through a divorce.


11 years?! You're not just "in prison", you're a lifer. Time to reclaim what's left of your life before she takes any more of it from you. Losing access to the kids and material stuff is no fun for sure, but your dignity and your soul MUST come first. You and your "wife" are not really married, you're just roommates. You're in a hell that is simply unimaginable for most of us here, myself included.

There is a lot more pain to come, but if you get out now there is the certainty that it will end and you can have a real life again. Please do it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Vegemite said:


> BG and others, I can relate. My wife is a serial cheat. Some would think I'm crazy to still be with her. But my 2 children is what keeps me there. I adore my kids, and it's a powerful thing to stop you leaving the marriage.
> 
> I've heard many times that you shouldn't stay in a loveless marriage for the sake of the kids, which is great in theory, but has proven to be hard in practice, from my own personal experience.


I firmly believe you should NEVER stay for the children.

Children can sense something is wrong. If Mommy and Daddy don't get along it teaches them that this type of dysfunction is normal and they will repeat it in their own marriages.

I divorced when my son was 18 months old, I didn't care, period. There was no way I was bringing up my son in the situation my marriage became.

I think, sometimes, people make excuses that it is about the kids, but in reality, they are simply afraid to make a move and go out into the unknown. I know, I've been there. 

I gave up almost everything to get out. I took on all the debt, I paid for the divorce, I gave him everything he wanted that we owned, I just wanted out.

If you want it bad enough, you make it work and go.


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## C3156

Vegemite said:


> BG and others, I can relate. My wife is a serial cheat. Some would think I'm crazy to still be with her. But my 2 children is what keeps me there. I adore my kids, and it's a powerful thing to stop you leaving the marriage.


One thing that I would say is that don't be in your marriage just for your kids. Your children learn from what they see and those that matter to them, their parents. What are you showing them by staying together and the kids seeing at least one parent miserable? It's okay for one parent to treat the other poorly? Or that one parent (or both) are suppposed to be awful to each other? Consider the message you are sending.

I say s*&t or get off the pot. Either you work, together, to repair the issues in the marriage OR work to end the marriage. For those who worry about making it easy for the kids with a divorce, let me give you a clue: there is no way to make it easy for them. Been there, done that. The best you can do is to assure them that you (both) love your children and the divorce has nothing to do with them, just the parents. They will go through the stages of anger and grief like anyone else. Focus instead on helping them work through this stage, they are young and most likely never experienced these emotions before. A counselor for them could be helpful. It is also good if the parents can be amiable, but that is not always the case.

@beachguy: Sorry that I missed your location, it can make a difference. If you truly feel your marriage is unrepairable, start to take steps to get out. There is a lot of information available on the internet to help you. Learn your states satutes on divorce and what you can and cannot do. For instance in FL, one parent cannot move with the children if the other parent refuses (and files in court).

The best advice I can give you is make sure you have a strategy for your divorce and a plan to achieve your goals. A good lawyer can help, but you need to drive your lawyer to achieve your goals. So plan ahead. 

Yes, you will lose some material "stuff" and some cash. You can always earn that back. But in the long run you will be a better and happier person if you get out of your "prison". Your children will see this and realize that sometimes things don't work out the way you want them to, but things will turn out for the best.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

BeachGuy said:


> My children have no idea that my wife hasn't had sex with me in 11 years. They're too young to understand most of this. Which is another blow to me. All they see is dad being unhappy towards mom. And mom is the sweet, innocent, never says a mean word to anybody type person. I'm also pretty darn certain all she's told her parents is that "BeachGuy's not happy and wants to leave". I promise she hasn't told them we haven't had sex in so long. Just saying the word embarrases her.
> 
> But in answer to your question...thinking about what MY parents are telling me now...I really don't know what I'd advise my adult child if they were in this situation. My parents and family are VERY sympathetic towards my situation, but they're just as much on the fence as I am about whether or not it's worth going through a divorce.



11 years and NO SEX and there's no health issues, etc.?

I would have left 10.5 years ago.

What are you waiting for, until you die?


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## gbrad

You should start planning to leave now. But that is just it, you need to make a plan. You don't just up and leave. If I learned anything from watching my parents get divorced, it's that not planning out a course of action can be quite detrimental. Think it through, have a strategy, get money set aside, plan it out. It may not happen right away, but you need to be ready for it when it does. I have no kids, but I am in the midst of a long term plan to get out. You probably should have been planning for a while now.


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## Mavash.

I thought his kids were older than that. He's been married for 20 years I think.


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## thunderstruck

MarriedTex said:


> My hunch is this is an exaggeration or a troll. He has sons aged 6 & 8. Unless there's in-vitro fertilization involved, there had to be some action there in the past decade.


Some guys here will say "NO" s*x for years, and then say later that no s*x actually means they got it a few times/year. On top of that, some of these no s*x wives all of a sudden want it when they want babies.


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## BeachGuy

MarriedTex said:


> My hunch is this is an exaggeration or a troll. He has sons aged 6 & 8. Unless there's in-vitro fertilization involved, there had to be some action there in the past decade.
> 
> I guess there could be adoption. But why would you go through the cost and expense of IVF or adoption with a partner who had not had relations with you for at least two years (11 years less nine month pregnancy less eight years of life for oldest)
> 
> Something's not adding up here.


I love it when people accuse others of being a troll just because their life doesn't fit the posters. You're "hunch" is completely wrong.

Pay attention: I said my "wife and I" hadn't had sex in 11 years. I broke that mold 4 years ago.

Just so happens I FIRMLY believed in committment in a marriage and I stayed all that time, even though there was no sex. None. Zero. Nothing. I always thought there was nothing that could happen that we couldn't resolve. I never considered that would only be true if BOTH spouses worked on the marriage.


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## BeachGuy

MarriedTex said:


> He has sons aged 6 & 8.


PS. I have daughters, that are 10 and 13. The sex stopped when she became pregnant with the youngest.


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## Spousal Unit

BeachGuy said:


> PS. I have daughters, that are 10 and 13. The sex stopped when she became pregnant with the youngest.


You're not her husband. You're a sperm donor.


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## Sbrown

Spousal Unit said:


> You're not her husband. You're a sperm donor.


And her lil worker bee...


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## Halien

Let's move the discussion beyond the troll accusation, which violates the forum rule of treating each other with dignity and respect. Also, the thread becomes hijacked, and the OP's concerns are not addressed. If you consider a post to be a troll posting, you can use the report feature to notify the mods, or PM the mods directly, or ignore the thread. 

Granted, the topic of legitimacy of posts does not come up in this section as often as others, so let's please move on with this reminder.

BeachGuy is in a very challenging and difficult situation. I appreciate his clarity in revealing supportive details that may also represent a reminder to him of just how long such a painful struggle is that he is facing.


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## Jason439

MarriedTex said:


> My hunch is this is an exaggeration or a troll. He has sons aged 6 & 8. Unless there's in-vitro fertilization involved, there had to be some action there in the past decade.
> 
> I guess there could be adoption. But why would you go through the cost and expense of IVF or adoption with a partner who had not had relations with you for at least two years (11 years less nine month pregnancy less eight years of life for oldest)
> 
> Something's not adding up here.


I have 2 sons 6 & 8. My W and I haven't had sex for the past year. 

I'm not a troll. Just trying to figure out this Pile of Sh that I'm in. 

I'm working on an exit plan and we both have agreed to stay amicable until the decision is made to split.


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## BeachGuy

Halien said:


> Let's move the discussion beyond the troll accusation, which violates the forum rule of treating each other with dignity and respect. Also, the thread becomes hijacked, and the OP's concerns are not addressed. If you consider a post to be a troll posting, you can use the report feature to notify the mods, or PM the mods directly, or ignore the thread.
> 
> Granted, the topic of legitimacy of posts does not come up in this section as often as others, so let's please move on with this reminder.
> 
> BeachGuy is in a very challenging and difficult situation. I appreciate his clarity in revealing supportive details that may also represent a reminder to him of just how long such a painful struggle is that he is facing.


Thank you.


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## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> My children have no idea that my wife hasn't had sex with me in 11 years. They're too young to understand most of this. Which is another blow to me. All they see is dad being unhappy towards mom. And mom is the sweet, innocent, never says a mean word to anybody type person. I'm also pretty darn certain all she's told her parents is that "BeachGuy's not happy and wants to leave". I promise she hasn't told them we haven't had sex in so long. Just saying the word embarrases her.
> 
> But in answer to your question...thinking about what MY parents are telling me now...I really don't know what I'd advise my adult child if they were in this situation. My parents and family are VERY sympathetic towards my situation, but they're just as much on the fence as I am about whether or not it's worth going through a divorce.


While they may be too young to understand the particulars, they feel the tension, they see the unhappiness, they are thinking it is normal and will live their married lives accordingly.


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## 40isthenew20

Another annoying aspect of the 'prison' is when your wife compares your situation to other 'prisoners.' she tells me that her friends (similar situations to us with kids and long term marriage) that those husbands don't get anything for years at a clip, so I should be happy. 

My response is that those guys don't look like me and their wives don't look like mine. If you can see what I'm referring to, it makes a lt of sense. Unattractive people are not going to illicit much sex, and the fols who take care of themselves should be rewarded for doing so.


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## Cyclist

First off I have been I your shoes, except for the sex part. My ex and I still had sex weekly. Married 22 years

Have 3 kids, had the million dollar house, sports cars, boat, etc.

Ya know what? That stuff doesnt bring happiness and every couch or lawn mower or whatever can be replaced.

If it makes a difference to your monthly child support payment and alimony walk away with a suitcase. I pay 2k per month and while I wish it was lower it's what is necessary to help raise the children

Next get the facts. Get an attny and find out what will happen. You won't pay child support forever and your alimony should be half of your married time, OR until she co habitates or re marrys. Make sure that's in your agreement.

Yes your relationship with your children will be strained. But given the time you will have on your hands take it and work on yourself.

There are three ways you can go here. You can go to the bar, you can stay in bed, or ou can go to the gym. Get a personal trainer and get to the gym. You will feel better, drop weight, look better, be happier, and your kids will see it.

11 years? You deserve to be a man ***** for a bit. BUT don't take a rebound relationship (I did and it's not good). DON'T introduce woman to the kids, keep that life seperate, and have some damn fun. 

Next pick up a hobby with good people. I picked up shooting sports. Shot sporting clays and skeet for about 2 years. Really great guys who had been there don't that, made great friends and had a support system.

Keep yourself busy, work on you, do some of the things YOU want for a change, give your kids love and attention, and you will look back on this as not a bad situation but a turning point in your life.


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## MarriedTex

BeachGuy said:


> PS. I have daughters, that are 10 and 13. The sex stopped when she became pregnant with the youngest.


Please accept my apologies. I think I got the particulars of two different threads confused. I should review more thoroughly before shooting from the hip in that way.


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## Jason439

MarriedTex said:


> Please accept my apologies. I think I got the particulars of two different threads confused. I should review more thoroughly before shooting from the hip in that way.


No worries Tex!


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## Vegemite

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I firmly believe you should NEVER stay for the children.
> 
> .


MWIL & C3156, I hear you. I agree with you. Just saying it's difficult. My CW is narcissistic and gets particularly nasty when I try to end it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

Vegemite said:


> MWIL & C3156, I hear you. I agree with you. Just saying it's difficult. My CW is narcissistic and gets particularly nasty when I try to end it.


Let her get nasty.

Who cares?

This is YOUR LIFE TOO.

She'll do just fine without you, they usually do (sorry).

The kids will be no worse off then in a home where it's obvious to them, that Mommy and Daddy have issues.

If you wait too long, then you'll really be stuck and die miserable...do you really want that--there are no do-overs in life, you only have one. The saying "it's never too late" is true, unless you wait too long and you're dead first--then it really is "too late."

I know it's hard, I've done it. I was scared, worried, didn't know what I was going to do, but it was more important to get out and save myself than to worry about what I was going to lose and I lost a lot, but I recovered, rebuilt and moved on. One of the best decisions I've ever made. I can't imagine now, looking back that I could have ever survived in that marriage. 

While I have issues in this marriage also (don't we all to some degree), they are completely different and things I can cope and live with. And there is one BIG difference between this marriage and my last--I still LOVE MY HUSBAND, even after almost 29 years--just as much as the day I married him, maybe even more. That helps a lot.

If I didn't love my current husband and wanted out, I would walk away again with just the clothes on my back and not look back. Material things can be replaced - time - can't replace that and the longer you stay the more you are wasting.


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## CanadianGuy

40isthenew20 said:


> Another annoying aspect of the 'prison' is when your wife compares your situation to other 'prisoners.' she tells me that her friends (similar situations to us with kids and long term marriage) that those husbands don't get anything for years at a clip, so I should be happy.
> 
> My response is that those guys don't look like me and their wives don't look like mine. If you can see what I'm referring to, it makes a lt of sense. Unattractive people are not going to illicit much sex, and the fols who take care of themselves should be rewarded for doing so.


I hear this from my wife too. She tells me she's taken a poll at her workplace. ( all female ) I'm pretty sure she never asked their husbands......I'm pretty sure your wife would get a different answer if she asked the husband too.


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## Vegemite

MarriedWifeInLove, thankyou for your reply. It's responses like those that make this forum so valuable to all of us, especially for those of us like OP & myself, who are floating in Limbo, facing a tough road ahead, whichever way it goes.

What you've said I've heard many times now.I'm well aware my CW's remorse is a sham. It's nice to get the focus back when it's needed.


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## In Absentia

I think people who are not in a 'prison' marriage are very quick at jumping to conclusions regarding the reasons why we stay in the marriage. I believe it's important that, if you are staying, you are doing it because you really think that keeping the family together is more important than your total happiness. Yes, I do really believe in this. We have a zero conflict marriage and the only missing factor is sex (well, communication, too). I'm sure my kids sense (or even know) that there are some problems, but all marriages have problems. As long as wife and husband have a civilised relationship, it's fine by me. Personally, I'm not leaving because of the kids. My youngest is 11. So, well, maybe in a few years (I'm nearly 50). I want to keep being a father to them and in no way I'm having another man raising them. So, you can call it a prison, but I've come to terms with it (after many years) and I never regretted staying and I'm not planning to leave any soon. 

I know that many men here TAM are still living a very conflictual situation and are at the 'soul searching' stage of their life. Luckily, I'm well past that and I can live my life with more serenity and positiveness. I will decide in a few years time. In the meantime, I'm focusing on my children. That's my number one priority.


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## Jason439

In Absentia said:


> I think people who are not in a 'prison' marriage are very quick at jumping to conclusions regarding the reasons why we stay in the marriage. I believe it's important that, if you are staying, you are doing it because you really think that keeping the family together is more important than your total happiness. Yes, I do really believe in this. We have a zero conflict marriage and the only missing factor is sex (well, communication, too). I'm sure my kids sense (or even know) that there are some problems, but all marriages have problems. As long as wife and husband have a civilised relationship, it's fine by me. Personally, I'm not leaving because of the kids. My youngest is 11. So, well, maybe in a few years (I'm nearly 50). I want to keep being a father to them and in no way I'm having another man raising them. So, you can call it a prison, but I've come to terms with it (after many years) and I never regretted staying and I'm not planning to leave any soon.
> 
> I know that many men here TAM are still living a very conflictual situation and are at the 'soul searching' stage of their life. Luckily, I'm well past that and I can live my life with more serenity and positiveness. I will decide in a few years time. In the meantime, I'm focusing on my children. That's my number one priority.


I'm pretty much aiming for this. I can reassess my situation further down the road. 

This is exactly how I feel.


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## diwali123

Go get a free consult from a lawyer or two. See what they say. Are you sure you even live in an alimony state? You could do what my father did and move to a nonalimony state and then get divorced. 
Alimony for life only applies if the other person doesn't get remarried. Every state is different, do your research. It could be that if there is alienation of affection that it changes things. 
It could be that she isn't allowed to move back home. 
The biggest mistake I see people make in divorce is assuming you know what the law is and what is going to happen. You are assuming you are going to be alone which isn't necessarily true, that everyone will side with her which isn't true. 
Look in every divorce there's his side, her side and the truth. People know that. Most people either stay out of it or side with the person they are closest to. As for your kids the reason for divorce is none of their business, it's just not. All they need to know is that the marriage isn't working and you have good reasons but you aren't going to burden them with those reasons. 
You have to protect yourself, I think once you file she can't take the kids out of the county without your agreement. She can't just decide to move outbid town because it's easier for her. Courts don't like kids to be away from one parent and they definitely don't like them to have to move and change schools. 
Pull yourself out of your own opinions and beliefs in your head and take concrete action to find out the truth today.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sbrown

Find a lawyer that ONLY defends men in D cases.


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## chillymorn

start planning your escape. you sound like a smart guy . go to a lawyer and see what your up aginst start trying to get her back to work start seperating the finances....if she balks just say this is the money I earn and I will decide what to do with it. all the while acting like you want to work on your marriage.



she might even try hitting you or verbal abuse have a voice actavated recorder on you at all times and if she dose asult you call the police if she denies it just have them listen to the recorder. if they say you recorded illegaly just say it was in your pocket and you forgot to turn it off.

or do nothing and bask in the misery of a poor marriage.


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## GTdad

In Absentia said:


> I think people who are not in a 'prison' marriage are very quick at jumping to conclusions regarding the reasons why we stay in the marriage. I believe it's important that, if you are staying, you are doing it because you really think that keeping the family together is more important than your total happiness. Yes, I do really believe in this. We have a zero conflict marriage and the only missing factor is sex (well, communication, too). I'm sure my kids sense (or even know) that there are some problems, but all marriages have problems. As long as wife and husband have a civilised relationship, it's fine by me. Personally, I'm not leaving because of the kids. My youngest is 11. So, well, maybe in a few years (I'm nearly 50). I want to keep being a father to them and in no way I'm having another man raising them. So, you can call it a prison, but I've come to terms with it (after many years) and I never regretted staying and I'm not planning to leave any soon.
> 
> I know that many men here TAM are still living a very conflictual situation and are at the 'soul searching' stage of their life. Luckily, I'm well past that and I can live my life with more serenity and positiveness. I will decide in a few years time. In the meantime, I'm focusing on my children. That's my number one priority.


This is where I'm at as well, and point I may have done a poor job at trying to make. Once I was able to lose my fear over going through a divorce, seeing my wife date, not seeing the kids every day, wondering if my wife still loved me, and all of the other crap I'd lie awake at night worrying about, I was able to make some rational choices. I made the same choice as you. I may choose differently in the future.

But it's my choice. Based on what's best for me and my kids. Once you exercise your choice in the absence of fear, I contend that you no longer live in a prison. And also contend that the prison isn't the marriage, it's the fear of what may be.

My current attitude is very, very liberating. The world is off my shoulders. I am no longer concerned about what my wife may or may not do, because I know that I'll make appropriate choices under the circumstances, and that I'll be okay regardless.

It may be overly optimistic, but it sure beats the hell out of my attitude a year or two ago.


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## In Absentia

GTdad said:


> This is where I'm at as well, and point I may have done a poor job at trying to make. Once I was able to lose my fear over going through a divorce, seeing my wife date, not seeing the kids every day, wondering if my wife still loved me, and all of the other crap I'd lie awake at night worrying about, I was able to make some rational choices. I made the same choice as you. I may choose differently in the future.
> 
> But it's my choice. Based on what's best for me and my kids. Once you exercise your choice in the absence of fear, I contend that you no longer live in a prison. And also contend that the prison isn't the marriage, it's the fear of what may be.
> 
> My current attitude is very, very liberating. The world is off my shoulders. I am no longer concerned about what my wife may or may not do, because I know that I'll make appropriate choices under the circumstances, and that I'll be okay regardless.
> 
> It may be overly optimistic, but it sure beats the hell out of my attitude a year or two ago.


Absolutely... glad to hear that and that I'm not alone in this.


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## 2ntnuf

Never felt like I was in prison. I just loved. Didn't know what else to do.  Too bad....


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## BeachGuy

I have spoken to lawyers. Four of them in two years (consults). Btw, only one was free. The others were $100/hour. So I'm not making many assumptions. FL is an alimony state and I've heard of guys being ordered to pay for life.


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## BeachGuy

GTdad said:


> This is where I'm at as well, and point I may have done a poor job at trying to make. Once I was able to lose my fear over going through a divorce, seeing my wife date, not seeing the kids every day, wondering if my wife still loved me, and all of the other crap I'd lie awake at night worrying about, I was able to make some rational choices. I made the same choice as you. I may choose differently in the future.
> 
> But it's my choice. Based on what's best for me and my kids. Once you exercise your choice in the absence of fear, I contend that you no longer live in a prison. And also contend that the prison isn't the marriage, it's the fear of what may be.
> 
> My current attitude is very, very liberating. The world is off my shoulders. I am no longer concerned about what my wife may or may not do, because I know that I'll make appropriate choices under the circumstances, and that I'll be okay regardless.
> 
> It may be overly optimistic, but it sure beats the hell out of my attitude a year or two ago.


I hear ya. And I could do that. If we were still having sex. But that's a deal-breaker. We don't argue either. Don't really speak to each other. I'm the fun parent and get along wonderfully with my kids. It's by no means an unhappy household in that respect.

But no sex till they're grown and gone? NFW.


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## In Absentia

BeachGuy said:


> But no sex till they're grown and gone? NFW.


well, yes, that's tough. We are having some sex, so I can't really complain that much.


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## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> I have spoken to lawyers. Four of them in two years (consults). Btw, only one was free. The others were $100/hour. So I'm not making many assumptions. FL is an alimony state and I've heard of guys being ordered to pay for life.


Let's see, she gets all of your money now as compared to just some of it if you get divorced? That's an easy one!

I wouldn't base staying or going on rumors. Did those attorneys tell you, you could pay for life? Find an attorney that only represents men in D. 

Or how about demanding she get a job. Stay another year and then D alimony free!


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## gbrad

That old saying, "ball and chain" so true.


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## Sbrown

The ball and chain are put there by you! Even if you decide to not D, you are the one that decides to let her control things.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

In Absentia said:


> I think people who are not in a 'prison' marriage are very quick at jumping to conclusions regarding the reasons why we stay in the marriage. I believe it's important that, if you are staying, you are doing it because you really think that keeping the family together is more important than your total happiness. Yes, I do really believe in this. We have a zero conflict marriage and the only missing factor is sex (well, communication, too). I'm sure my kids sense (or even know) that there are some problems, but all marriages have problems. As long as wife and husband have a civilised relationship, it's fine by me. Personally, I'm not leaving because of the kids. My youngest is 11. So, well, maybe in a few years (I'm nearly 50). I want to keep being a father to them and in no way I'm having another man raising them. So, you can call it a prison, but I've come to terms with it (after many years) and I never regretted staying and I'm not planning to leave any soon.
> 
> I know that many men here TAM are still living a very conflictual situation and are at the 'soul searching' stage of their life. Luckily, I'm well past that and I can live my life with more serenity and positiveness. I will decide in a few years time. In the meantime, I'm focusing on my children. That's my number one priority.


I was in a prison marriage with a child who was 18 months old at the time. No way would I have stayed FOR HIM. I left FOR HIM, much better that he grow up in a loving marriage than my first marriage with his real father.

I, since I have been there, for the life of me cannot understand ANYONE staying for the children. You are actually doing them more harm than good, showing them the dysfunction of your marriage which will teach them that "this is how marriage is" and they will never have the type of marriage that you wish for them. Do you really want that for them? Because that's what you are teaching them every day.

This is so much worse than leaving. At least by leaving they see a happy Daddy and possibly a happy Mommy who are better able to parent them because they are both in a happy place and content with their own lives.

You know what, I know you're young, but many 40, 45, and 50 year olds are killed in car accidents or drop dead from ailments they didn't even know they had, have a heart attack, etc. How could you possible waste one minute of a life that you'll never get back?

I just don't get it.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

In Absentia said:


> Absolutely... glad to hear that and that I'm not alone in this.


You're still "in prison."

Just fooling yourself that you're not, justifying it with a million different reasons.

Another life wasted, such a shame.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

I hope, that if my husband ever thinks he's in marriage prison, that he has the guts to tell me...I'll gladly let him go.

I wouldn't want ANYONE staying with me out of fear, guilt, or for the children.

Does your wife have any clue you feel this way? And if she does, it's ok? Don't get that either. I would never want someone to stay with me that wanted to leave, how sad.


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## MEM2020

MWIL, 
And this is one reason you have a good relationship. You are not willing to tolerate being badly treated open ended.


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## In Absentia

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> You're still "in prison."
> 
> Just fooling yourself that you're not, justifying it with a million different reasons.
> 
> Another life wasted, such a shame.


I would call it 'partially wasted'...  Love the kids, so it's been worth it. It's a prison I created myself, with my mistakes too. I will be free, at some point. That gives me wings...


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## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> I would call it 'partially wasted'...  Love the kids, so it's been worth it. It's a prison I created myself, with my mistakes too. I will be free, at some point. That gives me wings...


Do you love that the kids are learning what marriage should be from you? If you think they are oblivious to your situation, you might want to reconsider. They do live in the same house as you, they see/feel/pick up EVERYTHING!


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Do you love that the kids are learning what marriage should be from you? If you think they are oblivious to your situation, you might want to reconsider. They do live in the same house as you, they see/feel/pick up EVERYTHING!



If you read the thread properly, I have said that my marriage is a zero conflict marriage. No marriage is perfect, but I can tell you that mine is much better than many abusive ones, where husband and wife stay together. We are civilised. Obviously, the children will pick things up, but I still believe that, in our situation, are much better off if we stay together. Most of my kids friends' parents are divorced round here and my children often comment negatively on that. It depends on the circumstances. This black and white approach doesn't help anybody and is rather patronising.


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## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> If you read the thread properly, I have said that my marriage is a zero conflict marriage. No marriage is perfect, but I can tell you that mine is much better than many abusive ones, where husband and wife stay together. We are civilised. Obviously, the children will pick things up, but I still believe that, in our situation, are much better off if we stay together. Most of my kids friends' parents are divorced round here and my children often comment negatively on that. It depends on the circumstances. This black and white approach doesn't help anybody *and is rather patronising.*


Oh I read it...

The bold part...So is staying in a loveless marriage. Only you are patronizing your children.


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Oh I read it...
> 
> The bold part...So is staying in a loveless marriage. Only you are patronizing your children.


Children are children... we know better than them and we are here to take care of them and hopefully take the best decision for them. We have the information, you don't, so dictating to people what they should do or not do is patronising.


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## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> Children are children... we know better than them and we are here to take care of them and hopefully take the best decision for them. We have the information, you don't, so dictating to people what they should do or not do is patronising.


Children are children, and hopefully you do know better. But they are watching you, learning from you, learning what marriage is supposed to be like. I only have the information you have shared and from my seat...I feel sorry for your children. Good luck.


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Children are children, and hopefully you do know better. But they are watching you, learning from you, learning what marriage is supposed to be like. I only have the information you have shared and from my seat...I feel sorry for your children. Good luck.


Come to England to visit me and you'll find out... that's all I can say.


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## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> Come to England to visit me and you'll find out... that's all I can say.


Find out what exactly?


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Find out what exactly?


that I'm not patronising my children by not divorcing. 

Now, a simple question: given the information you have, what would you do? Keep the kids in a zero conflict marriage, where husband and wife still get on despite their problems, or show them that marriage, as institution, doesn't work?


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## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> that I'm not patronising my children by not divorcing.
> 
> Now, a simple question: given the information you have, what would you do? Keep the kids in a zero conflict marriage, where husband and wife still get on despite their problems, or show them that marriage, as institution, doesn't work?


Do you really believe that marriages should all be conflict free and that is a reasonable way to perceive marriage? What happens when your children get married and it is not conflict free? I wonder just how successful they will be at it? 

Divorce does not prove that marriage as an institution doesn't work. It proves that marriage involves people and sometimes people get it wrong. How you handle said marriage and divorce is what teaches those children that marriage doesn't work.


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## Sbrown

IF you can honestly say that you are living a life you wouldn't mind your child living, well then, by all means continue. But if you find yourself saying " I would NEVER want my child to live like this." then you know what you need to do.


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> IF you can honestly say that you are living a life you wouldn't mind your child living, well then, by all means continue. But if you find yourself saying " I would NEVER want my child to live like this." then you know what you need to do.


I don't understand how you can say that divorce is better than a zero conflict marriage. Just because I'm not happy, it doesn't mean that divorce it's the best thing for my children. Depends on how you manage the marriage. You know, some people can put their children's happiness before theirs. We are not all selfish, believe it or not.


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## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Do you really believe that marriages should all be conflict free and that is a reasonable way to perceive marriage? What happens when your children get married and it is not conflict free? I wonder just how successful they will be at it?
> 
> Divorce does not prove that marriage as an institution doesn't work. It proves that marriage involves people and sometimes people get it wrong. How you handle said marriage and divorce is what teaches those children that marriage doesn't work.


I'm only saying that a zero or low conflict marriage is better than divorce. If we had a high conflict marriage, I wouldn't stay. My children we'll learn that a civilised marriage is the way to go. That we respect each other, despite the problems, which we keep under cover, anyway. They are also aware that other parents divorce. I don't quite understand where you are getting the idea that divorce would be better for them.


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## BeachGuy

Sbrown said:


> IF you can honestly say that you are living a life you wouldn't mind your child living, well then, by all means continue. But if you find yourself saying " I would NEVER want my child to live like this." then you know what you need to do.


This made me wonder....ok, we divorce so the children aren't raised in a household where the parents don't love each other. Then we live separately as single parents swapping the kids back and forth. And suppose neither of us re-marries for 5, 10, 15 years...or forever for that matter? What does that show the children? That you try marriage once and if it doesn't work and you leave, you end up living alone the rest of your life? And then where would they see a real loving relationship?

I'm going to be 50 next month. I honestly don't see myself re-marrying or even in a serious enough relationship to bring my kids into the picture for at least a few years. Both of my kids will be gone in 8 years.

Food for thought.


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## BeachGuy

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Does your wife have any clue you feel this way? And if she does, it's ok? Don't get that either. I would never want someone to stay with me that wanted to leave, how sad.


My wife's train of thought is the polar oppisite of yours. She most certainly knows I don't want to be here. But she could care less so long as I don't divorce her and she gets to keep staying at home and living off of me. She'd rather be miserable and married if it means she doesn't have to have any responsibilities for the rest of her life.

We aren't rich and by no means have an extravagant lifestyle, but I make enough that she can stay home. And she thinks that's her lot in life. To be taken care of like she's still living with her mom and dad.


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## In Absentia

BeachGuy said:


> This made me wonder....ok, we divorce so the children aren't raised in a household where the parents don't love each other. Then we live separately as single parents swapping the kids back and forth. And suppose neither of us re-marries for 5, 10, 15 years...or forever for that matter? What does that show the children? That you try marriage once and if it doesn't work and you leave, you end up living alone the rest of your life? And then where would they see a real loving relationship?
> 
> I'm going to be 50 next month. I honestly don't see myself re-marrying or even in a serious enough relationship to bring my kids into the picture for at least a few years. Both of my kids will be gone in 8 years.
> 
> Food for thought.


well, thanks for explaining it a bit better than me. You have to be there to know what's it like. I'll be 50 next year. My youngest is 11, so we are pretty similar.


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## Runs like Dog

BeachGuy said:


> That you try marriage once and if it doesn't work and you leave, you end up living alone the rest of your life?


I think people overrate and over worry their capacity to be role models. In fact I think it's a cop out. I remember once one kid hissed at me "You're a hypocrite!!" My only response was "Get used to it in the real world"


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## In Absentia

Runs like Dog said:


> I think people overrate and over worry their capacity to be role models. In fact I think it's a cop out. I remember once one kid hissed at me "You're a hypocrite!!" My only response was "Get used to it in the real world"


I agree with that. Life is life. You can't be perfect.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

In Absentia said:


> I don't understand how you can say that divorce is better than a zero conflict marriage. Just because I'm not happy, it doesn't mean that divorce it's the best thing for my children. Depends on how you manage the marriage. You know, some people can put their children's happiness before theirs. We are not all selfish, believe it or not.


So staying with someone you don't love in a loveless, sexless marriage makes you "the hero" because you are putting your children's happiness before yours?

On what planet does that even make sense?

How do you know the children are happier with you together? Have you ever talked to them about Mommy and Daddy?

I guarantee you that they are smarter than you think and know exactly what TYPE of civilized marriage you have. 

"Your" sacrifice won't mean crap to them when they become adults and move out and only then will you find out that you wasted a lot of time for nothing.

Mark my words.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

BEACHGUY

Oh, but I was there.

And I LEFT.

You think your kids don't also get a taste of what relationships and marriage is all about from TV, their friends, their friends parents, etc?

Do you know how many kids, once the parents divorced wonder why they didn't do it sooner? Kids aren't stupid, they SEE and HEAR a lot, they just don't talk to you about it, but don't think they don't realize that things are just not quite right with Mom and Dad. They do.

You're 50, you've got another 8 years. Do you really think your kids are going to pat you on the back when you're 59 and you leave and say "thanks Dad for putting up with Mom while we were home, we appreciate it." Dream on...ain't gonna happen.

And when you're 59, you'll find another excuse not to leave--too old, don't want to start over, the kids will hate me if I desert their Mom now and then you'll find yourself at 70-75 years old and realize that you wasted your chance for happiness and it's too late.

I'm so bent out of shape about this because I see people waste their lives every single day and they have the power in their own hands to change it, but they don't. They make excuses as to why they can't live their own life and be happy. 

And they take those excuses to the grave and I just hate to see it happen.

Wake up guys, wake up before it's too late and you truly are "in prison for life."


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

BeachGuy said:


> My wife's train of thought is the polar oppisite of yours. She most certainly knows I don't want to be here. But she could care less so long as I don't divorce her and she gets to keep staying at home and living off of me. She'd rather be miserable and married if it means she doesn't have to have any responsibilities for the rest of her life.
> 
> We aren't rich and by no means have an extravagant lifestyle, but I make enough that she can stay home. And she thinks that's her lot in life. To be taken care of like she's still living with her mom and dad.


More power to her.

I could not live under the same roof with someone who I know can't stand me and doesn't want to be with me. No way, absolutely no way.

Sounds like a very self-centered, selfish woman if you ask me.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

BeachGuy said:


> This made me wonder....ok, we divorce so the children aren't raised in a household where the parents don't love each other. Then we live separately as single parents swapping the kids back and forth. And suppose neither of us re-marries for 5, 10, 15 years...or forever for that matter? What does that show the children? That you try marriage once and if it doesn't work and you leave, you end up living alone the rest of your life? And then where would they see a real loving relationship?
> 
> I'm going to be 50 next month. I honestly don't see myself re-marrying or even in a serious enough relationship to bring my kids into the picture for at least a few years. Both of my kids will be gone in 8 years.
> 
> Food for thought.


Who says you have to be married to be successful?

That went out with TV dinners and 3-channel TV.

They are certainly not seeing a loving relationship now, so what would really change? Dad would be happier and Mom would just plug along as usual.

In 8 years, you'll be 58--see how it is starting over at that age. You'll find it's easier to stay then too and then you're trapped forever or until she pulls a fast one on you and LEAVES YOU once the kids are gone.


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## MEM2020

IA,
What a painful smile this brought to my face. 

I agree that cursing/hateful words are toxic. And yelling when it is primarily something that is done by only one spouse and is done in an intimidating manner is also toxic. 

The very bad and frighteningly unhealthy message you are conveying to the next generation is this: as long as there is no overt emotional violence, the marriage should be sustained. 

But you already know that isn't true. Once you get inside someone else's head, you can wreak absolute havoc in a soft voice, with a very low key style and not a nasty word uttered. In fact, you can work someones nerves to the breaking point fairly easily with the very calculated use of silence and/or the total absence of warmth. 





In Absentia said:


> I'm only saying that a zero or low conflict marriage is better than divorce. If we had a high conflict marriage, I wouldn't stay. My children we'll learn that a civilised marriage is the way to go. That we respect each other, despite the problems, which we keep under cover, anyway. They are also aware that other parents divorce. I don't quite understand where you are getting the idea that divorce would be better for them.


----------



## In Absentia

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> So staying with someone you don't love in a loveless, sexless marriage makes you "the hero" because you are putting your children's happiness before yours?
> 
> On what planet does that even make sense?
> 
> How do you know the children are happier with you together? Have you ever talked to them about Mommy and Daddy?
> 
> I guarantee you that they are smarter than you think and know exactly what TYPE of civilized marriage you have.
> 
> "Your" sacrifice won't mean crap to them when they become adults and move out and only then will you find out that you wasted a lot of time for nothing.
> 
> Mark my words.


You see, it's not a loveless marriage. This is where you and Sbrown go wrong... we care a lot about each other. The only problem is the sex (we don't have it often enough - there are reasons for that) and I've accepted it. So, as far as you are ok with it, the relationship is fine overall, I don't see why I should divorce and put the children in a difficult situation. My wife works shifts and the logistics would be a nightmare. The kids would be much worse off and without a dad who looks after them. Also, they would be worse off financially. When they've gone, then I can take it from there.


----------



## In Absentia

MEM11363 said:


> IA,
> What a painful smile this brought to my face.
> 
> I agree that cursing/hateful words are toxic. And yelling when it is primarily something that is done by only one spouse and is done in an intimidating manner is also toxic.
> 
> The very bad and frighteningly unhealthy message you are conveying to the next generation is this: as long as there is no overt emotional violence, the marriage should be sustained.
> 
> But you already know that isn't true. Once you get inside someone else's head, you can wreak absolute havoc in a soft voice, with a very low key style and not a nasty word uttered. In fact, you can work someones nerves to the breaking point fairly easily with the very calculated use of silence and/or the total absence of warmth.


yes, I'm not entirely happy with my relationship, but I'm happy with my family life. That's enough for me. It's not a matter of being a hero, like MarriedWifeInLove says... there is a lot of whining on this board about wanting things to be perfect. But we live in a real world and things are not always perfect. Many people have every right to complain, because their situation is pretty horrible, mine isn't. Sure, my marriage is a bit like a prison, because it's not what I wanted, but given the situation, it will do for the moment.


----------



## vanessa365

gbrad said:


> This is where I believe that alimony should not exist. Child support is one thing, but alimony is ridiculous. People should have to support themselves. I am lucky to know that if I got divorced there would be no alimony requested either way. It is wrong.
> You are the one working, you SHOULD get the house.
> I feel for you.


Seriously? Omg!!!!!


----------



## vanessa365

gbrad said:


> This is where I believe that alimony should not exist. Child support is one thing, but alimony is ridiculous. People should have to support themselves. I am lucky to know that if I got divorced there would be no alimony requested either way. It is wrong.
> You are the one working, you SHOULD get the house.
> I feel for you.


Are you f'ng serious? Women in the home work hard for their kids....if you don't believe me, try it. Give up your dreams, career, get fat, lose friends, toil all day. And then after a hard day of chasing the kids and cleaning the house, try being the little playboy bunny your husband wants!!!! What about when you've got cramps jerk! Or try pushing a 7lb baby out! She deserves just as much.... How dare YOU?


----------



## vanessa365

BeachGuy said:


> My children have no idea that my wife hasn't had sex with me in 11 years.


That's certainly the first reason I'd leave


----------



## vanessa365

40isthenew20 said:


> Another annoying aspect of the 'prison' is when your wife compares your situation to other 'prisoners.' she tells me that her friends (similar situations to us with kids and long term marriage) that those husbands don't get anything for years at a clip, so I should be happy.
> 
> My response is that those guys don't look like me and their wives don't look like mine. If you can see what I'm referring to, it makes a lt of sense. Unattractive people are not going to illicit much sex, and the fols who take care of themselves should be rewarded for doing so.


You ARE ridiculous!!! I am very fit!!!! I work out every morning at 7am/ 7 days a week!!!! I'm still very unhappy! I only work out to relieve my negative and angry energy. I eat right and still don't feel sexy.it's how your partner makes you feel, over time.


----------



## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> This made me wonder....ok, we divorce so the children aren't raised in a household where the parents don't love each other. Then we live separately as single parents swapping the kids back and forth. And suppose neither of us re-marries for 5, 10, 15 years...*or forever for that matter?* What does that show the children? That you try marriage once and if it doesn't work and you leave, you end up living alone the rest of your life? And then where would they see a real loving relationship?
> 
> I'm going to be 50 next month. I honestly don't see myself re-marrying or even in a serious enough relationship to bring my kids into the picture for at least a few years. Both of my kids will be gone in 8 years.
> 
> Food for thought.


AWWW The truth of why you stay married seems to be screaming from this one statement. Good luck.


----------



## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> My wife's train of thought is the polar oppisite of yours. She most certainly knows I don't want to be here. But she could care less so long as I don't divorce her and she gets to keep staying at home and living off of me. She'd rather be miserable and married if it means she doesn't have to have any responsibilities for the rest of her life.
> 
> We aren't rich and by no means have an extravagant lifestyle, but I make enough that she can stay home. And she thinks that's her lot in life. To be taken care of like she's still living with her mom and dad.


Well then cut her off from the finances. Cancel all credit cards she has and switch to a checking account in your name only!


----------



## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> You see, it's not a loveless marriage. This is where you and Sbrown go wrong... we care a lot about each other. The only problem is the sex (we don't have it often enough - there are reasons for that) and I've accepted it. So, as far as you are ok with it, the relationship is fine overall, I don't see why I should divorce and put the children in a difficult situation. My wife works shifts and the logistics would be a nightmare. The kids would be much worse off and without a dad who looks after them. Also, they would be worse off financially. When they've gone, then I can take it from there.


Well then how can you call it a prison? So you are a SAHD?


----------



## Sbrown

In Absentia said:


> yes, I'm not entirely happy with my relationship, but I'm happy with my family life. That's enough for me. It's not a matter of being a hero, like MarriedWifeInLove says... there is a lot of whining on this board about wanting things to be perfect. But we live in a real world and things are not always perfect. Many people have every right to complain, because their situation is pretty horrible, mine isn't. Sure, my marriage is a bit like a prison, because it's not what I wanted, but given the situation, it will do for the moment.


It is a prison with no gate...


----------



## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> Well then how can you call it a prison? So you are a SAHD?


I work from home... maybe a SAHWD?


----------



## In Absentia

Sbrown said:


> It is a prison with no gate...


Isn't that a _contradictio in terminis?_  You make a valid point, though. Still a bit of a prison, IMHO. I would say a prison without bars...


----------



## Sbrown

vanessa365 said:


> Are you f'ng serious? Women in the home work hard for their kids....if you don't believe me, try it. Give up your dreams, career, get fat, lose friends, toil all day. And then after a hard day of chasing the kids and cleaning the house, try being the little playboy bunny your husband wants!!!! What about when you've got cramps jerk! Or try pushing a 7lb baby out! She deserves just as much.... How dare YOU?


All the things you listed are choices, giving up dreams, your choice, career, your choice, get fat YOUR CHOICE, lose friends (this one baffles me) your choice, toil all day (I guess the man doesn't toil all day at his job?) your choice! It is time to be an adult and realize that YOU MAKE CHOICES!!! So why should you the women have more power when it comes time to separate! 

My wife is a SAHM (for the moment) and she might do 2 hours of actual work in an average day, she keeps the house clean so it is easy to maintain. While what my wife does is worth more than money, it isn't as tough as some portray it to be.


----------



## Sbrown

vanessa365 said:


> You ARE ridiculous!!! I am very fit!!!! I work out every morning at 7am/ 7 days a week!!!! I'm still very unhappy! I only work out to relieve my negative and angry energy. I eat right and still don't feel sexy.it's how your partner makes you feel, over time.


Your happiness and sexiness depends on your partner???


----------



## Cosmos

BeachGuy said:


> I'm really depressed today. It's just sinking in that I'm completely stuck. I have everything to lose and very very little to gain by filing for divorce. I feel completely and totally trapped.


If you're depressed and feel completely stuck, you have everything to gain by making the necessary changes in your life to get yourself unstuck.

If you've explored every avenue available to you (ie MC), and divorce is the only option, IMO, you have everything to gain by pursuing that option.

Nothing will change unless you take action, other than you feeling more stuck and depressed. Is that really an option?


----------



## Starstarfish

Part of the difficulty, Sbrown, is that if you are a SAHM for any appreciable length of time, if and when you need to re-enter the job market (because of divorce, for example), you now have an appreciable gap in your work history. You haven't worked for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. When you go to apply for a job, no doubt that plays a part in you getting hired. Why would they choose someone who has no work experience, and hasn't been in the job market? Doubly so if you didn't go to college, and thus can't lead your resume with a degree. 

So, this wasn't solely the female partner's choice, this was a mutual decision by the household within the expectation that household would continue to exist. Which yes, might involve trading personal ambitions or dreams of accomplishment or career for the sake of the family. So, when that household dissolves to try and suddenly pretend that the decision was solely -hers- for no purpose, and worse to blame her for it, I'm uncertain what to say. 

As far as the work being difficult. It is tedious and repetitive, and then as a bonus, you know full well that people have these kinds of conversations about how your efforts aren't "real work." But tell yourself it's alright, because it's worth it, and keep telling yourself that, until it's not worth it anymore because you are getting divorced, the household you gave yourself to create is over. But, that's alright, because it was your choice, so, accept your choices. 

Am I saying that women should get alimony for life, well no. But, especially if you divorce and she gets custody of the children, she now has to work to find a job that works around the children's school/activity schedule and/or child care availability, and then - has to overcome the reality that her work experience might severely pale in comparison to other applicants. Especially when the economy is so bad and so many people are unemployed, there are likely many more qualified people desperate for whatever that job might be. 

Also, as far as friends goes, there are other posters who make it clear that if you are a SAHM you don't deserve friendships, or only a limited quality/quantity of them, as you don't deserve them. 

There are enough threads about the weight thing, I'm not going there again.


----------



## Sbrown

Starstarfish said:


> Part of the difficulty, Sbrown, is that if you are a SAHM for any appreciable length of time, if and when you need to re-enter the job market (because of divorce, for example), you now have an appreciable gap in your work history. You haven't worked for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. When you go to apply for a job, no doubt that plays a part in you getting hired. Why would they choose someone who has no work experience, and hasn't been in the job market? Doubly so if you didn't go to college, and thus can't lead your resume with a degree.
> 
> So, this wasn't solely the female partner's choice, this was a mutual *decision* by the household within the expectation that household would continue to exist. Which yes, might involve trading personal ambitions or dreams of accomplishment or career for the sake of the family. So, when that household dissolves to try and suddenly pretend that the decision was solely -hers- for no purpose, and worse to blame her for it, I'm uncertain what to say.
> 
> As far as the work being difficult. It is tedious and repetitive, and then as a bonus, you know full well that people have these kinds of conversations about how your efforts aren't "real work." But tell yourself it's alright, because it's worth it, and keep telling yourself that, until it's not worth it anymore because you are getting divorced, the household you gave yourself to create is over. But, that's alright, because it was your choice, so, accept your choices.
> 
> Am I saying that women should get alimony for life, well no. But, especially if you divorce and she gets custody of the children, she now has to work to find a job that works around the children's school/activity schedule and/or child care availability, and then - has to overcome the reality that her work experience might severely pale in comparison to other applicants. Especially when the economy is so bad and so many people are unemployed, there are likely many more qualified people desperate for whatever that job might be.
> 
> Also, as far as friends goes, there are other posters who make it clear that if you are a SAHM you don't deserve friendships, or only a limited quality/quantity of them, as you don't deserve them.
> 
> There are enough threads about the weight thing, I'm not going there again.


These few words validates EXACTLY what I said. While everything else you stated might be fact, the person that stays home DECIDED to or at the very least was part of that decision, knowing full well the consequences of said decision! Be a grown up and take responsibility for your decisions!


----------



## hookares

BeachGuy said:


> I'm really depressed today. It's just sinking in that I'm completely stuck. I have everything to lose and very very little to gain by filing for divorce. I feel completely and totally trapped.


If your marriage is saveable, it's your best bet.
Once you are alone and single again, you really are only waiting around to die.


----------



## Sbrown

hookares said:


> If your marriage is saveable, it's your best bet.
> Once you are alone and single again, you really are only waiting around to die.


WOW! Some see it as a new lease on life! A chance to do some of the things you couldn't do before. Like find a mate that actually likes you.


----------



## hookares

Sbrown said:


> WOW! Some see it as a new lease on life! A chance to do some of the things you couldn't do before. Like find a mate that actually likes you.


I'm sure that works for many.


----------



## Starstarfish

Actually, my thought was - people don't at the time they make mutual maritial decisions usually sit and think, "Well, what if we get divorced." People don't indeed, I think, overall consider the consequences of decisions always keeping potential D in the back of their mind. 

When you buy a house, do you ponder how you'll feel being forced to sell it if you divorce? Do you hold off buying cars or having children because you might get divorced? Do you refuse to take a promotion at work during your marriage, because you'll have to pay more child support if you get divorced?

Who honestly thinks like that?

Likewise, women who decide to become SAHMs don't do so with the full expectation of the problems it will cause them, in the face of the relationship going south. Perhaps that's something more couples should discuss up front, if one partner decides to stay home. But, who really wants to do that, bring up the big D unless it is actually forthcoming?

I mean, you feel strongly against alimony, SBrown, and mention your wife currently a stay at home spouse. I confess I don't follow threads enough to know if you have children. 

But, when you discussed the option of her staying him, did you tell her up front if your relationship went south, you'd expect that not to be taken into consideration, and she should play on going to work right away? Have you told her your thoughts on that, did she understand that when making her decision to stay home. 

If so, awesome, you are really honest. If not, then, perhaps you understand what I mean. I'm not saying the woman wasn't part of the decision, I'm just saying that I doubt the decision was really made with the "consequences" in mind. 

Few people live their marriages planning for divorce.


----------



## Sbrown

Starstarfish said:


> Actually, my thought was - people don't at the time they make mutual maritial decisions usually sit and think, "Well, what if we get divorced." People don't indeed, I think, overall consider the consequences of decisions always keeping potential D in the back of their mind.
> 
> When you buy a house, do you ponder how you'll feel being forced to sell it if you divorce? Do you hold off buying cars or having children because you might get divorced? Do you refuse to take a promotion at work during your marriage, because you'll have to pay more child support if you get divorced?
> 
> Who honestly thinks like that?
> 
> Likewise, women who decide to become SAHMs don't do so with the full expectation of the problems it will cause them, in the face of the relationship going south. Perhaps that's something more couples should discuss up front, if one partner decides to stay home. But, who really wants to do that, bring up the big D unless it is actually forthcoming?
> 
> I mean, you feel strongly against alimony, SBrown, and mention your wife currently a stay at home spouse. I confess I don't follow threads enough to know if you have children.
> 
> But, when you discussed the option of her staying him, did you tell her up front if your relationship went south, you'd expect that not to be taken into consideration, and she should play on going to work right away? Have you told her your thoughts on that, did she understand that when making her decision to stay home.
> 
> If so, awesome, you are really honest. If not, then, perhaps you understand what I mean. I'm not saying the woman wasn't part of the decision, I'm just saying that I doubt the decision was really made with the "consequences" in mind.
> 
> Few people live their marriages planning for divorce.


The fact that most people do not think bad things can happen to them does not exonerate them from the consequences of their decisions. Of coursed we discussed alimony if we split, when we made the decision for her to stay home. My wife brought it up, actually and the big joke now is, she would rather stay with me and get all of my money, rather than split and just get part. LOL


----------



## Feelused

I'm guessing that at one point the lack of sex becomes the "norm" and you have enough "stuff" in the house to keep you going at a numb pace.

Do you really want to be in the same spot 5 years down the road?

All I can say is keep pushing forward.


----------



## tennisstar

hookares said:


> If your marriage is saveable, it's your best bet.
> Once you are alone and single again, you really are only waiting around to die.


That is soooo not true. I was single for 10 years before remarrying. There are tons of single people, and life can be fun and exciting as a single person. I had hobbies (still do), traveled, etc. Some married people think marriage is all there is. Not true at all. 

Beach, I've read several of your threads. You are very unhappy in your marriage. Don't let this go 5 or more years. Divorce is your only option.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tennisstar

vanessa365 said:


> Are you f'ng serious? Women in the home work hard for their kids....if you don't believe me, try it. Give up your dreams, career, get fat, lose friends, toil all day. And then after a hard day of chasing the kids and cleaning the house, try being the little playboy bunny your husband wants!!!! What about when you've got cramps jerk! Or try pushing a 7lb baby out! She deserves just as much.... How dare YOU?


All adults should be responsible for their own earnings. I can't understand long term alimony. Staying home a few years is one thing. Not working your whole adult life is what is ridiculous!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## gbrad

vanessa365 said:


> Are you f'ng serious? Women in the home work hard for their kids....if you don't believe me, try it. Give up your dreams, career, get fat, lose friends, toil all day. And then after a hard day of chasing the kids and cleaning the house, try being the little playboy bunny your husband wants!!!! What about when you've got cramps jerk! Or try pushing a 7lb baby out! She deserves just as much.... How dare YOU?


People need to be able to pay their own way. If you are not in a marriage with someone any more they should not have to pay for you to live your life. Paying to help out to raise kids yes, but to pay for YOU, no.


----------



## gbrad

vanessa365 said:


> You ARE ridiculous!!! I am very fit!!!! I work out every morning at 7am/ 7 days a week!!!! I'm still very unhappy! I only work out to relieve my negative and angry energy. I eat right and still don't feel sexy.it's how your partner makes you feel, over time.


The whole, relieve negative and angry energy....not working so well.


----------



## gbrad

Starstarfish said:


> Part of the difficulty, Sbrown, is that if you are a SAHM for any appreciable length of time, if and when you need to re-enter the job market (because of divorce, for example), you now have an appreciable gap in your work history. You haven't worked for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. When you go to apply for a job, no doubt that plays a part in you getting hired. Why would they choose someone who has no work experience, and hasn't been in the job market? Doubly so if you didn't go to college, and thus can't lead your resume with a degree.
> 
> So, this wasn't solely the female partner's choice, this was a mutual decision by the household within the expectation that household would continue to exist. Which yes, might involve trading personal ambitions or dreams of accomplishment or career for the sake of the family. So, when that household dissolves to try and suddenly pretend that the decision was solely -hers- for no purpose, and worse to blame her for it, I'm uncertain what to say.
> 
> As far as the work being difficult. It is tedious and repetitive, and then as a bonus, you know full well that people have these kinds of conversations about how your efforts aren't "real work." But tell yourself it's alright, because it's worth it, and keep telling yourself that, until it's not worth it anymore because you are getting divorced, the household you gave yourself to create is over. But, that's alright, because it was your choice, so, accept your choices.
> 
> Am I saying that women should get alimony for life, well no. But, especially if you divorce and she gets custody of the children, she now has to work to find a job that works around the children's school/activity schedule and/or child care availability, and then - has to overcome the reality that her work experience might severely pale in comparison to other applicants. Especially when the economy is so bad and so many people are unemployed, there are likely many more qualified people desperate for whatever that job might be.
> 
> Also, as far as friends goes, there are other posters who make it clear that if you are a SAHM you don't deserve friendships, or only a limited quality/quantity of them, as you don't deserve them.
> 
> There are enough threads about the weight thing, I'm not going there again.


If the person who has the kids can't get a job to support them, then maybe the other parent who has the job and has the finances should be the one to have the kids more often so they can care for them. That way the one who can't get the best job has more options timing wise to not have to worry about kids and child care. 
Oh, thats an issue because the mom almost always gets the kids regardless unless she is seen as an unfit mother. That is one thing that has always bothered me. Doesn't matter how great of a dad he was he has a slim chance of getting the kids. A lot of men get screwed over in that one.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

In Absentia said:


> yes, I'm not entirely happy with my relationship, but I'm happy with my family life. That's enough for me. It's not a matter of being a hero, like MarriedWifeInLove says... there is a lot of whining on this board about wanting things to be perfect. But we live in a real world and things are not always perfect. Many people have every right to complain, because their situation is pretty horrible, mine isn't. Sure, my marriage is a bit like a prison, because it's not what I wanted, but given the situation, it will do for the moment.


Believe me, there is not a lot of whinning for things to be "perfect" on this board.

If I wanted them to be perfect, I certainly wouldn't be here, I would be gone. 

If perfect means that you deserve respect, caring, honesty and intimacy from the one that promised that to you when you got married - well then I guess yes - I want perfect.

Anybody who "settles" for less is only hurting or fooling themselves.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

gbrad said:


> People need to be able to pay their own way. If you are not in a marriage with someone any more they should not have to pay for you to live your life. Paying to help out to raise kids yes, but to pay for YOU, no.


I agree, as a woman.

Child support - yes.

Alimony - a bunch of crap.

If you're able-bodied, you support yourself.

If you "elected" to be a SAHM, that's on you. That doesn't prevent you from working outside the home when/if it is necessary.

I raised two children and held down a full-time job (sometimes more than one) since I was 15 years old and I'm 52 years old. I've always been able to pay my own way and will continue to do so until I breathe my last breath.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

Starstarfish said:


> Actually, my thought was - people don't at the time they make mutual maritial decisions usually sit and think, "Well, what if we get divorced." People don't indeed, I think, overall consider the consequences of decisions always keeping potential D in the back of their mind.
> 
> When you buy a house, do you ponder how you'll feel being forced to sell it if you divorce? Do you hold off buying cars or having children because you might get divorced? Do you refuse to take a promotion at work during your marriage, because you'll have to pay more child support if you get divorced?
> 
> Who honestly thinks like that?
> 
> Likewise, women who decide to become SAHMs don't do so with the full expectation of the problems it will cause them, in the face of the relationship going south. Perhaps that's something more couples should discuss up front, if one partner decides to stay home. But, who really wants to do that, bring up the big D unless it is actually forthcoming?
> 
> I mean, you feel strongly against alimony, SBrown, and mention your wife currently a stay at home spouse. I confess I don't follow threads enough to know if you have children.
> 
> But, when you discussed the option of her staying him, did you tell her up front if your relationship went south, you'd expect that not to be taken into consideration, and she should play on going to work right away? Have you told her your thoughts on that, did she understand that when making her decision to stay home.
> 
> If so, awesome, you are really honest. If not, then, perhaps you understand what I mean. I'm not saying the woman wasn't part of the decision, I'm just saying that I doubt the decision was really made with the "consequences" in mind.
> 
> Few people live their marriages planning for divorce.


People shouldn't live their marriages planning for divorce - I agree.

But people need to also be realistic and realize that there is no knight in shining armor on a white horse and that THEY need to protect and take care of themselves as you never know what the future holds.

I'll give a good example in my own life.

I spent 25 years in the military. At about my 15th year, the Air Force offered an early retirement option at the 15-year mark. This would delay or reduce my overall retirement and a lot of other reductions, but would also allow me to retire early. I thought about it off and on, discussed with my husband, then bounced it off my mom.

My mom was totally against it and said that I should ALWAYS be able to support myself and my children if "something" happened to my marriage. See, she thought her marriage was forever too until my dad traded her in for someone younger and she was stuck with no skills, no job and two kids to raise. I remember, as a child, how hard it was for her.

She never wanted me to be "stuck" in the same situation. So even though I expected my marriage to last forever, I live in the real world and realize that while I can control myself, I could never-ever control him and he could up and leave at anytime without warning.

She was right and I stayed. One of the best decisions I ever made--even though my kids are gone now, I can support myself and will always be able to--no matter what happens, even my health won't change that--I have a healthy retirement, for life.


----------



## MarriedWifeInLove

Starstarfish said:


> Part of the difficulty, Sbrown, is that if you are a SAHM for any appreciable length of time, if and when you need to re-enter the job market (because of divorce, for example), you now have an appreciable gap in your work history. You haven't worked for 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 years. When you go to apply for a job, no doubt that plays a part in you getting hired. Why would they choose someone who has no work experience, and hasn't been in the job market? Doubly so if you didn't go to college, and thus can't lead your resume with a degree.
> 
> So, this wasn't solely the female partner's choice, this was a mutual decision by the household within the expectation that household would continue to exist. Which yes, might involve trading personal ambitions or dreams of accomplishment or career for the sake of the family. So, when that household dissolves to try and suddenly pretend that the decision was solely -hers- for no purpose, and worse to blame her for it, I'm uncertain what to say.
> 
> As far as the work being difficult. It is tedious and repetitive, and then as a bonus, you know full well that people have these kinds of conversations about how your efforts aren't "real work." But tell yourself it's alright, because it's worth it, and keep telling yourself that, until it's not worth it anymore because you are getting divorced, the household you gave yourself to create is over. But, that's alright, because it was your choice, so, accept your choices.
> 
> Am I saying that women should get alimony for life, well no. But, especially if you divorce and she gets custody of the children, she now has to work to find a job that works around the children's school/activity schedule and/or child care availability, and then - has to overcome the reality that her work experience might severely pale in comparison to other applicants. Especially when the economy is so bad and so many people are unemployed, there are likely many more qualified people desperate for whatever that job might be.
> 
> Also, as far as friends goes, there are other posters who make it clear that if you are a SAHM you don't deserve friendships, or only a limited quality/quantity of them, as you don't deserve them.
> 
> There are enough threads about the weight thing, I'm not going there again.


I'd be willing to bet, in TODAY'S times, that there are few husbands that WANT their wives to be SAHM's.

I'd bet that more women WANT to be SAHM's.

And the marlarky that children are better off with a Mom at home doesn't wash with me either. 

I was never a SAHM and my kids are doing just fine. 

My husand's first wife DECIDED to be a SAHM and it was one of the downfalls of their marriage. She did not cook often, did not keep the house clean and their kids ran ragged.


----------



## Minuit à Paris

gbrad said:


> This is where I believe that alimony should not exist. Child support is one thing, but alimony is ridiculous. People should have to support themselves. I am lucky to know that if I got divorced there would be no alimony requested either way. It is wrong.
> You are the one working, you SHOULD get the house.
> I feel for you.


I am a stay at home mom, i cook, clean, take the kids to and from school, hug them and am always there for them. My husband is free to pursue his career. Everyone thinks that women who dont work are lazy, but it would be easier for me to work than raise my kids. I know people of today think that is a lazy cop out, but kids that have a parent that can be there for them blossom so beautifully.


----------



## Sbrown

Minuit à Paris said:


> I am a stay at home mom, i cook, clean, take the kids to and from school, hug them and am always there for them. My husband is free to pursue his career. Everyone thinks that women who dont work are lazy, but it would be easier for me to work than raise my kids. I know people of today think that is a lazy cop out, but kids that have a parent that can be there for them blossom so beautifully.


And those that don't have a parent there, don't??? Just because both parents work doesn't mean the parents aren't there for them. Sounds like you are free to pursue yours as well.


----------



## tennisstar

Sbrown said:


> And those that don't have a parent there, don't??? Just because both parents work doesn't mean the parents aren't there for them. Sounds like you are free to pursue yours as well.




My son was in daycare and turned out fine.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tennisstar

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I'd be willing to bet, in TODAY'S times, that there are few husbands that WANT their wives to be SAHM's.
> 
> I'd bet that more women WANT to be SAHM's.
> 
> And the marlarky that children are better off with a Mom at home doesn't wash with me either.
> 
> I was never a SAHM and my kids are doing just fine.
> 
> My husand's first wife DECIDED to be a SAHM and it was one of the downfalls of their marriage. She did not cook often, did not keep the house clean and their kids ran ragged.



I agree. Most men I know do not wish to be the sole supporter of the family. I also agree with your earlier post about always being able to support yourself. My mom couldn't, and she had to endure my father's abuse because she had little money to leave. And she worked. But her job was low paying so she could have more time with us. Seeing her go through that made its mark on me. 

I am sorry, but staying home with children is way too risky.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lyris

I'm a mostly SAHM, although I also work 10 hours a week. My husband and I made that decision together when our first was born because neither of us wanted to put her into child care. Now we have ended up deciding on homeschooling, so I won't be going back to full time work any time soon. 

Our lives are better with me at home. All our lives, including my husband's Things are more peaceful and joyful, there is less rushing around, he doesn't need to worry about appointments or other stuff with the kids. I also find it easier to save money by making everything from scratch, food shopping at a few different places, trawling second hand markets etc.

I worked full time for 10 years. I am qualified to do that again, especially as I've kept my hand in with part time work. But my retirement money has certainly suffered and my earning capacity is not particularly high, unless I get another qualification. I went into this with my eyes wide open though, and I know I'll be in trouble when i get older if my husband leaves me. I'm choosing to trust in our relationship and the character of the an I married.

I'm in Australia, and alimony, or spousal maintenance, is not especially common. Child support, yes, and in unusual cases a spouse may have to pay maintenance until a dependent child is 18, especially if the child has special needs. But there is really no lifetime alimony.

We have a strong welfare safety net though, and although it would be very hard to live just on that, at least it's there.


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## Lyris

Double post


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## gbrad

Minuit à Paris said:


> I am a stay at home mom, i cook, clean, take the kids to and from school, hug them and am always there for them. My husband is free to pursue his career. Everyone thinks that women who dont work are lazy, but it would be easier for me to work than raise my kids. I know people of today think that is a lazy cop out, but kids that have a parent that can be there for them blossom so beautifully.


I see nothing wrong with what you said. I don't believe that a SAHM is lazy. If she doesn't do things around the house that would be a different story.


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## gbrad

Lyris said:


> I'm a
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have a strong welfare safety net though, and although it would be very hard to live just on that, at least it's there.


Sidetrack: Welfare, that is a whole other issue on it's own. Way too many people allowed to be dependent on that.


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## Starstarfish

Antecedents that "it worked for me" or "my kids are fine," doesn't really include the full scope of reasons a partner male or female decides to be SAH. No doubt it is a complex and personal decision. If people don't agree with it - awesome, you can make a different choice. Are there potential negatives with the positives, no doubt, like with any decision. 

Depending on earning potential, sometimes sending a child to daycare even if it "works out fine" can actually accomplish far less financially than one might imagine. When my siblings had to go to childcare, my mother had to work a second job, to pay for them to go to daycare, so she could work her first job. 

The average cost of full-time child care is $11,666 a year, according to one source. In a more metropolitan area, it can cost $2,000 a month. Not everyone is going to make enough money to have that be worth it. 

As for whether or not men these days want to be the solely income earners - isn't one of our presidential candidates a proud advocate of the fact his wife has been a lifetime SAHM? 

Also, here's this guy who wrote into Dear Prudence in February:


> Q. Looking for a Mrs. Degree: I attend a small university studying engineering. I hold traditional values and I would like to get married to a woman willing to stay home and raise our children. I am lucky enough to not have any student loans and will be able to support a wife and children on my salary. Preferably, I would like to marry a woman who has a college degree and is smart because we would match intellectually and she would provide the best environment for my children. Women I meet on campus frequently call me sexist. I never thought of myself as sexist because I have no problem whatsoever with women who work in general and I respect my fellow female students and professors. Just because I don't want my wife to work does not mean I think women in general shouldn't work. Am I sexist? Is there any way I can meet a woman who shares my values, or was I born 40 years too late?


The columnist harangues him for his question, but - apparently, yes, there are men still out there interested in that arrangement.


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## tennisstar

Starstarfish said:


> Antecedents that "it worked for me" or "my kids are fine," doesn't really include the full scope of reasons a partner male or female decides to be SAH. No doubt it is a complex and personal decision. If people don't agree with it - awesome, you can make a different choice. Are there potential negatives with the positives, no doubt, like with any decision.
> 
> Depending on earning potential, sometimes sending a child to daycare even if it "works out fine" can actually accomplish far less financially than one might imagine. When my siblings had to go to childcare, my mother had to work a second job, to pay for them to go to daycare, so she could work her first job.
> 
> The average cost of full-time child care is $11,666 a year, according to one source. In a more metropolitan area, it can cost $2,000 a month. Not everyone is going to make enough money to have that be worth it.
> 
> As for whether or not men these days want to be the solely income earners - isn't one of our presidential candidates a proud advocate of the fact his wife has been a lifetime SAHM?
> 
> Also, here's this guy who wrote into Dear Prudence in February:
> 
> 
> The columnist harangues him for his question, but - apparently, yes, there are men still out there interested in that arrangement.


I was single, so I didn't have a choice to work or not. All of us didn't have a choice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BeachGuy

Sbrown said:


> Well then cut her off from the finances. Cancel all credit cards she has and switch to a checking account in your name only!


I don't see what purpose that would serve. She doesn't spend money needlessly. Never has. We have no credit cards either.


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## BeachGuy

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I agree, as a woman.
> 
> Child support - yes.
> 
> Alimony - a bunch of crap.
> 
> If you're able-bodied, you support yourself.
> 
> If you "elected" to be a SAHM, that's on you. That doesn't prevent you from working outside the home when/if it is necessary.
> 
> I raised two children and held down a full-time job (sometimes more than one) since I was 15 years old and I'm 52 years old. I've always been able to pay my own way and will continue to do so until I breathe my last breath.


Sounds like you were raised working just like me. My wife was not. I think her first job was summers during college when her father "created" a job for her at his office to give her something to do. After we married, she worked for 8 years until we had our first child. So the majority of her life has been not working. HUGE difference in the way I was raised. I've been working since I was a kid, worked in high school, college, and 20+ years in my current career. All my life, if I wanted money, I had to earn it.

I wanted her to stay home when the kids were babies. But I also expected her to go back to work once they were in school full time and she balked. She does about 50% of what most SAHM's do. Our home is not clean. She doesn't cook. Takes care of the getting the kids off to school and does laundry. Not much more.

As for alimony, I have absolutely no problem paying a little REHABILITATIVE alimony for a FEW years. Unfortunately, it doesn't usually work out that way for the man in Florida.


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## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> I don't see what purpose that would serve. She doesn't spend money needlessly. Never has. We have no credit cards either.


Well then if you are happy supporting her, and enabling her ways, by all means continue.


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## BeachGuy

Sbrown said:


> Well then if you are happy supporting her, and enabling her ways, by all means continue.


So you're suggesting I just cut her off? Move out and take my money?

That's called abandonment and the courts don't take too kindly to that.


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## DangerousCurves

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> I'd be willing to bet, in TODAY'S times, that there are few husbands that WANT their wives to be SAHM's.
> 
> I'd bet that more women WANT to be SAHM's.
> 
> And the marlarky that children are better off with a Mom at home doesn't wash with me either.
> 
> I was never a SAHM and my kids are doing just fine.
> 
> My husand's first wife DECIDED to be a SAHM and it was one of the downfalls of their marriage. *She did not cook often, did not keep the house clean and their kids ran ragged.*


That's not a SAHM. That's called being lazy. There's a difference.


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## Sbrown

BeachGuy said:


> So you're suggesting I just cut her off? Move out and take my money?
> 
> That's called abandonment and the courts don't take too kindly to that.


Move out? No, I would NEVER suggest doing that. I would just take away any reason for her to NOT get a job. Take over paying the bills and only give her BARE money to put gas in the car IF she has to take the kids some where. 

I can't imagine letting someone that doesn't like me much having control of my finances.


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## DangerousCurves

tennisstar said:


> I agree.* Most men I know do not wish to be the sole supporter of the family.* I also agree with your earlier post about always being able to support yourself. My mom couldn't, and she had to endure my father's abuse because she had little money to leave. And she worked. But her job was low paying so she could have more time with us. Seeing her go through that made its mark on me.
> 
> I am sorry, but staying home with children is way too risky.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did they also state why? Just curious.


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## C3156

Sbrown said:


> Move out? No, I would NEVER suggest doing that. I would just take away any reason for her to NOT get a job. Take over paying the bills and only give her BARE money to put gas in the car IF she has to take the kids some where.
> 
> I can't imagine letting someone that doesn't like me much having control of my finances.


The idea is to encourage her to want to go to work so she can have a little extra money without actually asking her to. It sounds like she has an entitlement attitude so I don't expect you to make a lot of headway. If she needs money, I bet she will call Daddy to make it better.

As mentioned previously, you have a choice: Start to work _together _on your marriage or bite the bullet. Both have good points and bad points. Only you can make the ultimate decision. Far better to be poor & happy than rich & miserable IMO.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

BeachGuy said:


> So you're suggesting I just cut her off? Move out and take my money?
> 
> That's called abandonment and the courts don't take too kindly to that.


I don't think that is what is being said.

But you don't have to bankroll a lifestyle.

You can set up a separate household account that is for running the household and some extra $$ in it for some mad type money and then sock the rest away in savings.

No reason to give her carte blanche to ALL of the income--no court says you have to do that. 

There are several households set up with a household account that DOES NOT include all the income.

There is a WAY to make it happen if you really want to. But I just hear all kinds of excuses as to why not, which means you're really not ready even though you think you are.

When you are ready, the excuses on why you can't will disappear.

Until then...good luck.


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## BeachGuy

C3156 said:


> The idea is to encourage her to want to go to work so she can have a little extra money without actually asking her to. It sounds like she has an entitlement attitude so I don't expect you to make a lot of headway. If she needs money, I bet she will call Daddy to make it better.
> 
> As mentioned previously, you have a choice: Start to work _together _on your marriage or bite the bullet. Both have good points and bad points. Only you can make the ultimate decision. Far better to be poor & happy than rich & miserable IMO.


Well she certainly knows I want to divorce and am planning to, so there's no way she'd go get a job now before being awarded alimony. And as I said, she doesn't waste money. At all. I've thought about taking 100% control of the money but she really only spends what is needed to buy groceries, gas, etc. It would only create more work for me in the end.

As for working on the marriage....I've been working on it for 3 years. Even our counselor has given up on her. It's a one-way street.

The real question is WILL divorcing REALLY make me happier? I love my kids more than anything and the time we separated, I hated not living with them full time. This thread got sidetracked at one point about "staying for the kids". If I stay, it's not for the kids. It's for me, so I can stay with my kids. Guess I'm selfish.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

DangerousCurves said:


> Did they also state why? Just curious.


Men I have talked to that DO NOT wish to be the sole supporter have various reasons.

Such as, some believe both parties should contribute "financially" to the household.

Some believe that the pressure of supporting the household should be divided up between both parties.

Some DO NOT make enough money to support the household entirely and so it requires both parties to work.

Some DO NOT want their spouse's to be totally dependent on them for financial support or other support and want them to be independent.

Lots of reasons...I don't think one size fits all.

This is actually something my husband and I discussed prior to getting engaged. He wanted someone who made their own money, contributed financially to the household and were able to support themselves and be independent. He didn't have that with his first wife and it caused a lot of issues.

He got that this time...I actually outearn him and was supporting myself when we met and still can to this day.

I personally believe that anyone, including a spouse that relies solely on another person for support is setting themselves up for a big letdown or fall. I've seen spouse's who couldn't balance a checkbook, had no idea what expenses were and bills that were owed and even some who had no driver's license as they let their "husbands" take care of things and stayed home with the children.

And when the husband's left or died or were tragically injured, the remaining "wife" didn't have a clue as to what to do.

Why would anyone want to set themselves up for that situation on purpose?

We, as women, shouldn't give up ourselves and our own free will just because we said I do. Men don't, why should we?


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## Starstarfish

As as far as current Florida state alimony goes, just during some quick research, this does seem way off. Up to and including the thought that if you get divorced and remarry in the future, a judge can deem your second wife's income as part of the alimony consideration, so in essence, your second wife can work to bankroll your first wife not. I confess, that's pretty fubar.


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## MarriedWifeInLove

BeachGuy said:


> Well she certainly knows I want to divorce and am planning to, so there's no way she'd go get a job now before being awarded alimony. And as I said, she doesn't waste money. At all. I've thought about taking 100% control of the money but she really only spends what is needed to buy groceries, gas, etc. It would only create more work for me in the end.
> 
> As for working on the marriage....I've been working on it for 3 years. Even our counselor has given up on her. It's a one-way street.
> 
> The real question is WILL divorcing REALLY make me happier? I love my kids more than anything and the time we separated, I hated not living with them full time. This thread got sidetracked at one point about "staying for the kids". If I stay, it's not for the kids. It's for me, so I can stay with my kids. Guess I'm selfish.


If that works for you then fine, you've made your choice.

But remember...you're the one that has elected to remain in prison.

So put on your happy hat and deal with it until you decide you've had enough. 

Can't complain about a choice you've made. You need to live with it and move on.


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## Sbrown

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> If that works for you then fine, you've made your choice.
> 
> But remember...you're the one that has elected to remain in prison.
> 
> So put on your happy hat and deal with it until you decide you've had enough.
> 
> Can't complain about a choice you've made. You need to live with it and move on.


:iagree:


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## diwali123

I have more free time at work than I did as a SAHM. I have breaks, lunch, a commute that is child free. I go to the bathroom alone without someone standing outside the door whining at me. 
It's not just a matter of one spouse being a SAHP. A lot of times one partner sacrifices for the other's career by moving to another place, giving up their own great job so their partner can get move forward. You have to look at the picture. 
And if the parent who earns more gets the kids and they are working 60 hours a week, then what? They pay for a maid and babysitters when they could have the kids with a loving parent a d pay child support?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 827Aug

BeachGuy said:


> So you're suggesting I just cut her off? Move out and take my money?
> 
> That's called abandonment and the courts don't take too kindly to that.


That's basically what my estranged husband did. The courts slap him on the wrist from time to time. It doesn't seem to bother him that much.


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## DangerousCurves

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Men I have talked to that DO NOT wish to be the sole supporter have various reasons.
> 
> Such as, some believe both parties should contribute "financially" to the household.
> 
> Some believe that the pressure of supporting the household should be divided up between both parties.
> 
> Some DO NOT make enough money to support the household entirely and so it requires both parties to work.
> 
> Some DO NOT want their spouse's to be totally dependent on them for financial support or other support and want them to be independent.
> 
> Lots of reasons...I don't think one size fits all.
> 
> This is actually something my husband and I discussed prior to getting engaged. He wanted someone who made their own money, contributed financially to the household and were able to support themselves and be independent. He didn't have that with his first wife and it caused a lot of issues.
> 
> He got that this time...I actually outearn him and was supporting myself when we met and still can to this day.
> 
> I personally believe that anyone, including a spouse that relies solely on another person for support is setting themselves up for a big letdown or fall. I've seen spouse's who couldn't balance a checkbook, had no idea what expenses were and bills that were owed and even some who had no driver's license as they let their "husbands" take care of things and stayed home with the children.
> 
> And when the husband's left or died or were tragically injured, the remaining "wife" didn't have a clue as to what to do.
> 
> Why would anyone want to set themselves up for that situation on purpose?
> 
> We, as women, shouldn't give up ourselves and our own free will just because we said I do. Men don't, why should we?


Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. I was wondering because I've asked a few men in the past and they admitted that they wouldn't be able to buy all their "toys" or support their hobbies if their wives stopped working. They were very candid about it which shocked me. Although, it shouldn't since we live in such a materialistic world. So often I hear people say their family couldn't live on just one income, but really MOST could. It's about priorities.


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## Starstarfish

I just want to comment, that regardless if both partners work or not, people who have responsibilities, should really have life insurance policies - which is what you do if someone dies tragically.


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## MEM2020

Curves, 
So your post is: the women have to work because the men are materialistic? 

The typical United States survey shows that in the spender/saver categories:

2/3 of the spenders are female and 1/3 are male. 

I can't imagine anyone posting: the women make their men work as well because the women like having more discretionary income.


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## RandomDude

I like to think that I'm in the prison willingly since I share it with my hot wife and awesome daughter

That's how I get over the "stuck" feeling


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## MarriedWifeInLove

MEM11363 said:


> Curves,
> So your post is: the women have to work because the men are materialistic?
> 
> The typical United States survey shows that in the spender/saver categories:
> 
> 2/3 of the spenders are female and 1/3 are male.
> 
> I can't imagine anyone posting: the women make their men work as well because the women like having more discretionary income.


Then people in that survey weren't telling the truth.

A lot of time when women spend--they are spending for the children too - most women buy all the children's clothes, shoes, extracurricular activity items, etc. Typically men don't.

In my house, while the number of items I buy might be more than my husband, the amount of $$ he spends on his toys far outweigh the amount of actual money I spend. 

His last expenditure for his latest toy was $7K for an 8-wheel all-terrain vehicle--I didn't spend that much on clothes/shoes ALL of last year combined.

Perspective, perspective--more to the story.


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## Sbrown

MarriedWifeInLove said:


> Then people in that survey weren't telling the truth.
> 
> A lot of time when women spend--they are spending for the children too - most women buy all the children's clothes, shoes, extracurricular activity items, etc. Typically men don't.
> 
> In my house, while the number of items I buy might be more than my husband, the amount of $$ he spends on his toys far outweigh the amount of actual money I spend.
> 
> His last expenditure for his latest toy was $7K for an 8-wheel all-terrain vehicle--I didn't spend that much on clothes/shoes ALL of last year combined.
> 
> Perspective, perspective--more to the story.


Your one household does not make the people in the survey untruthful. It didn't say 100% of the time women spend more than men.


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## Deejo

Throwing the derail flag ...

Please reign it in.


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