# Wife contributes less and less to family costs



## fruey (11 mo ago)

Hello

We've been married for 20 years. My wife earns about 55% of my salary and I have never expected or demanded that she contribute 35% of our costs (which would be her mathematical "proportion").

However I feel that now with other troubles in our marriage (she expects me to take the lead on everything, in spite of me suffering a period of dark depression) I am being taken for a ride. I really just need a sanity check on whether I'm getting this all wrong.

Her contribution: about 22% of the mortgage. Most of the food shopping, though occasionally I have to cover this; everything else she declares being "her" money which she generally spends on things that are of direct benefit to her: clothes, makeup, beauty treatments, nail salon, etc. Occasional clothes/cash for our 16yr old son. She has racked up massive (five figure) debt that I can't fully understand either.

My contribution: the rest. Energy bills, car, insurance, local and property tax, water rates, regular meal takeouts, all pet food, and holidays. I pay our son's monthly allowance.

She also expects expensive gifts.

Am I just stupid, or do others feel this is a fair or normal or acceptable distribution of financial effort? 

Thank you for your thoughts.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She’s run up 5 figures in debt, considers your money family money and her money hers.
You’ve allowed it. That debt of hers is yours.
You don’t have to ask permission to whether or not you allow someone to treat you a certain way. When you’re the responsible party and your partner takes advantage and us irresponsible, it’s wrong. But honestly, this is how it is in a lot of cases. Marriages end all the tone over finances.
I suggest figuring out how to get your wife on board as a team player. Who knows how to do it? People rarely change without some kind of major disaster. She won’t make real changes unless forced to.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Open a joint account and all of the income (both yours and hers) goes into that account. Then the two of you write out a budget every month where every dollar is accounted for and agreed upon. Then there is no more issue because both of you have agreed on the spending.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Why does she go to stores several times a week, a couple hours each time? That may be considered a bit much.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

fruey said:


> Hello
> 
> We've been married for 20 years. My wife earns about 55% of my salary and I have never expected or demanded that she contribute 35% of our costs (which would be her mathematical "proportion").
> 
> ...


This sounds a lot like the way things are divided in my marriage except her percentage is a lot lower. 

I don't get wound up about the finances as long as she listens to my guidance when there's issues or we need to refocus money. For example if we're running low on routine cash account I'll tell her to chill out for a bit and she does. "Stay off Amazon this week" is a thing 

Honestly if I paid 100% for our marriage and she contributed nothing financially I'd be ok with that too.
We'd adjust our standard of living and find her a hobby.

In my opinion, fair and equitable distribution of financial burden is entirely up to whatever the married couple agrees on. If one is unhappy with the balance then yes, the balance needs to change or at least be discussed properly.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Women expect men to take the lead because they want their man to be a leader.

It sounds like you have failed to lead on multiple fronts. 

Fix this asap.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

What else does she provide to the marriage?

Does she cook, clean, and give you lots of sex?

Does she take care of the kids?

Those things are considerations too.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s run up 5 figures in debt, considers your money family money and her money hers.
> You’ve allowed it. That debt of hers is yours.
> You don’t have to ask permission to whether or not you allow someone to treat you a certain way. When you’re the responsible party and your partner takes advantage and us irresponsible, it’s wrong. But honestly, this is how it is in a lot of cases. Marriages end all the tone over finances.
> I suggest figuring out how to get your wife on board as a team player. Who knows how to do it? People rarely change without some kind of major disaster. She won’t make real changes unless forced to.


We've had big rows about it. No common ground has been found, to be honest.



Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why does she go to stores several times a week, a couple hours each time? That may be considered a bit much.


Most of it is online spending. 



Diceplayer said:


> Open a joint account and all of the income (both yours and hers) goes into that account. Then the two of you write out a budget every month where every dollar is accounted for and agreed upon. Then there is no more issue because both of you have agreed on the spending.


Sadly, this is not possible. She does not want me to see any of her finances any more, I looked once or twice before and checked her spending to see what was going on (in a nice way, trying to reduce her debt accumulation, which has been going on for a long time).



BeyondRepair007 said:


> This sounds a lot like the way things are divided in my marriage except her percentage is a lot lower.
> 
> I don't get wound up about the finances as long as she listens to my guidance when there's issues or we need to refocus money. For example if we're running low on routine cash account I'll tell her to chill out for a bit and she does. "Stay off Amazon this week" is a thing
> 
> ...


The problem is that discussing the balance always ends in an argument. I have no access to her accounts, we don't have anything like a "routine cash account"...



thunderchad said:


> Women expect men to take the lead because they want their man to be a leader.
> 
> It sounds like you have failed to lead on multiple fronts.
> 
> Fix this asap.


This is an interesting. How can you lead if you have no money of your own, because she's already decided to spend it? It's getting in the way. Example: "hey honey, why don't you book a weekend away for us?" ... with what money? she has all the disposable income at her disposal.

I'm not sure all women want their man to take the lead on everything, but maybe you're right; in that case anyway I need to get out - she won't listen when I try to lead anyway.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

thunderchad said:


> What else does she provide to the marriage?
> 
> Does she cook, clean, and give you lots of sex?
> 
> ...


I cook meals for my son and I in the evenings as she rarely eats at night, maybe she'll join us with a yoghurt, maybe not. I pay for a cleaner, she does other bits and pieces. I clean too, I do some laundry, I look after the garden... I do all the driving, look after all the ferrying people to appointments etc. I cook most meals at the weekend, for everybody. 

"Giving me lots of sex" isn't something I can quite work with as a phrase. We have a sex life, she'd probably like more but makes no time for it, and refuses my advances when I'm in the mood quite regularly.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Is she perhaps having an affair? It sounds like she is checked out.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

fruey said:


> she expects me to take the lead on everything





fruey said:


> I'm not sure all women want their man to take the lead on everything, but maybe you're right; in that case anyway I need to get out - she won't listen when I try to lead anyway.


Sorry, what does this mean? The statements seem to be in conflict.

But I'll also say that having private accounts, racking up debt, arguing about balances (ie...evasive?) are big red flags to me.

"_She does not want me to see any of her finances any more, _" = Big problem.

There seems to be deeper relationship issues that you need to focus on rather than finances.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Diceplayer said:


> Open a joint account and all of the income (both yours and hers) goes into that account. Then the two of you write out a budget every month where every dollar is accounted for and agreed upon. Then there is no more issue because both of you have agreed on the spending.


I like this AFTER, they sit down together and discuss her (their) debt. Until it's gone she should pay her usual 22 percent of the mortgage and nearly all of the rest of her money goes to paying down that debt that is what at minimum 10,000 euros? 
Then they can combine. And then hopefully she gets a handle on her spending.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Marriage to me isn't about who pays what and who earns what. In our marriage we have one joint account and everything goes in there. Its all ours no matter where it's come from. 
All bills are paid from that account and whatever we buy comes from that account. 

You have an issue with the debt. That needs sorting.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> Marriage to me isn't about who pays what and who earns what. In our marriage we have one joint account and everything goes in there. Its all ours no matter where it's come from.
> All bills are paid from that account and whatever we buy comes from that account.
> 
> You have an issue with the debt. That needs sorting.


If it's share and share alike, fine. But her position is: my money is mine to spend, you have to cover other stuff first. So I earn more, but have less disposable income. There is no desire on her part to have a joint account to pay bills.

It isn't about who earns what and who pays what, UNTIL one party says that they have rights to their money when clearly that leaves me with next to nothing each month. We should be able to live comfortably, but I live like a miser.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

A lot of times when relationships go sideways women will start to say your money us our money and my money is my money.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Middle of Everything said:


> I like this AFTER, they sit down together and discuss her (their) debt. Until it's gone she should pay her usual 22 percent of the mortgage and nearly all of the rest of her money goes to paying down that debt that is what at minimum 10,000 euros?
> Then they can combine. And then hopefully she gets a handle on her spending.


Her debt situation doesn't lead her to reduce the number of nail salon appointments, facial treatment appointments, etc etc... I don't think the debt issue is solved but I can't see what's even going on with it any more.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I guess this is something that needed to be talked about and agreed on before marriage. Its a bit late now when you clearly have very different attitudes to money and spending.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

...


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

fruey said:


> Her debt situation doesn't lead her to reduce the number of nail salon appointments, facial treatment appointments, etc etc... I don't think the debt issue is solved but I can't see what's even going on with it any more.


I personally think you need to draw a line in the sand with this. My wife and I combine all finances. There is no her money and my money, just our money. I realize that not all people do it that way, but I think at the very least you should have 100% full transparency, on EVERYTHING. There should be no secrets, including finances. I'm not sure about where you are from, but for the most part, in the US debt of one spouse is not isolated from the other. A debt collector will come after the married couple, not just the individual, so it is your problem too. In my opinion hiding finances is a form of marital infidelity. By hiding her finances from you she is in a way cheating on you. Heck, for all you know she is hiding hotel room bills. I know that is extreme, but fact is she is hiding something from you, for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be accepted.


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Not that those details really matter. I have never understood people who marry and have separate accounts, although I do have friends who do that and make it work. But in order for any financial arrangement to work, there has to be some equality and you don't have that.


This is a "How it works in my marriage" post. 
But I still suggest that OP may have relationship issues that he may not be aware of. There seems to be a change in her behavior that needs explained.

My wife and I have separate accounts, but not really.
She has an account where her paycheck is deposited, and I have an account where mine is deposited.
But these are both joint accounts, and there's no restriction (implicit or explicit) about using each others money.

The reason for the separation of accounts is 2-fold.
1st, she has a sense of ownership and freedom as opposed feeling "dependent on me" for everything.
2nd, she has better visibility to the money that's considered "hers" and she's free to spend as she wants. Even though in reality all the money is available to both of us and she knows this.



BigDaddyNY said:


> at the very least you should have 100% full transparency, on EVERYTHING.


100% agree this.
We have a budget and guidelines about who pays for what. Hers is mostly home-oriented (food, supplies, etc) mine is everything else.
Any new debt is communicated and agreed beforehand.
We periodically review together all balances, including investments & retirement. We also discuss any planned expenses (vacations, purchases, etc).

I review weekly all transactions from our cash & credit accounts. This is from a security standpoint, not a controlling "what are you doing" standpoint. I question any unusual charges only in the sense of detecting fraud (which we have seen).

All of this is fully agreed by both of us and has worked well for us for many years now.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@fruey are you in the United States? If not, is it normal for couples to lead financially independent lives in your country and would you be responsible for her debt in case of divorce?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Frankly while my marriage has combined finances. You shouldn't at this point do combined finances with your wife. She would just chew through more of the income. Also if you combine now you may be responsible for her credit card debt which right now should only be in her name. If you name is on it you have every right to look at the balance and if she won't do that willingly, you should call the bank yourself.

You two do need to better communicate. 

She can only take your money if you let her.

You may not on your own change something like finances. I suggest you sit down and have a conversation about what is fair. It really doesn't matter how anyone else handles their finances. You are in a long marriage. You two have set rules for your marriage. YOu can't unilaterally change something and expect it to go well. You have to figure out what you want and then work toward a solution. I find often times people underestimate what something the other person pays for like the groceries. However what you can do is say each month I expect x dollars to go toward the mortgage or what have you. 

You see in my marriage we have joint accounts and expenses but my husband doesn't expect me to contribute anything. I do not spend my paycheck though as I am the finance person.

It seems your family doesn't have a financial leader. See the prior post regarding leadership. It seems you two are missing leadership period. I agree not every woman wants to be led, but every relationship needs leaders. I lead on the financial front. My husband leads on other fronts. We split it up and talk frequently.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

during our marriage, we kept bouncing back and forth between who had a bigger salary.
but we just dumped all the money into the same account, and that was that. 

about the only real thing i see wrong with what the OP said, is she EXPECTS expensive gifts. 
Why? plan for your future, and INVEST that money into something that will be there when you retire. Expensive gifts are NOT investment grade!


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> I guess this is something that needed to be talked about and agreed on before marriage. Its a bit late now when you clearly have very different attitudes to money and spending.


The baseline, at least here where I live (in France) is that each party contributes within their means. That's the default starting point. If one no longer contributes it's an issue. However, you are right in saying that 20 years ago we had other financial priorities (my father in law dying of cancer, for one) so we didn't discuss finances to a great extent.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Lila said:


> @fruey are you in the United States? If not, is it normal for couples to lead financially independent lives in your country and would you be responsible for her debt in case of divorce?


I'm British born but naturalised French (just recently because of Brexit) and resident in France. European law and customs are fairly similar to the US, in my experience. There are subtle differences (credit card debt was an assumption in once place, where this is overdraft debt that has been covered by personal loans, but the difference is mild at the end of the day).


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> Frankly while my marriage has combined finances. You shouldn't at this point do combined finances with your wife. She would just chew through more of the income. Also if you combine now you may be responsible for her credit card debt which right now should only be in her name. If you name is on it you have every right to look at the balance and if she won't do that willingly, you should call the bank yourself.
> 
> You two do need to better communicate.
> 
> ...


It's untrue that there is no financial leadership. I am (or was) the financial leader, but I am facing refusal after refusal from my wife to rein in / help manage her financials. I file all taxes, and at one point looked at all accounts. She now no longer wants me looking at her accounts. I bugged her about spending, maybe. But all the while I was making sacrifices while she was just doing as she pleased. I cover pretty much all major responsibility - negotiating mortgage, loans, etc etc. but feel I'm getting further and further away from a fair deal as our mariage progresses.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I personally think you need to draw a line in the sand with this. My wife and I combine all finances. There is no her money and my money, just our money. I realize that not all people do it that way, but I think at the very least you should have 100% full transparency, on EVERYTHING. There should be no secrets, including finances. I'm not sure about where you are from, but for the most part, in the US debt of one spouse is not isolated from the other. A debt collector will come after the married couple, not just the individual, so it is your problem too. In my opinion hiding finances is a form of marital infidelity. By hiding her finances from you she is in a way cheating on you. Heck, for all you know she is hiding hotel room bills. I know that is extreme, but fact is she is hiding something from you, for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be accepted.


That's a good point - I did clarify with my bank manager that "her debts" wouldn't cause problems for me, but I have massive doubt about that.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

fruey said:


> It's untrue that there is no financial leadership. I am (or was) the financial leader, but I am facing refusal after refusal from my wife to rein in / help manage her financials. I file all taxes, and at one point looked at all accounts. She now no longer wants me looking at her accounts. I bugged her about spending, maybe. But all the while I was making sacrifices while she was just doing as she pleased. I cover pretty much all major responsibility - negotiating mortgage, loans, etc etc. but feel I'm getting further and further away from a fair deal as our mariage progresses.


If you don't have followers you aren't a leader.

You need to figure out how to make this more of a fair deal. Obviously she isn't following you and you can't appoint yourself a leader. That is never how leadership works.

So what can you do to bring her to the table? How can you stop contributing? How can you bring her to the table? How does your communication look in your marriage?


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> If you don't have followers you aren't a leader.
> 
> You need to figure out how to make this more of a fair deal. Obviously she isn't following you and you can't appoint yourself a leader. That is never how leadership works.
> 
> So what can you do to bring her to the table? How can you stop contributing? How can you bring her to the table? How does your communication look in your marriage?


Well you know she's quite aggressive with me when I try to communicate my needs. Said most things were my problem, I was the person with the problem, I should see someone. I did for a while, but I can't afford it any more 🤷‍♂️ 

I start to feel like I have a narcissist as a wife, and a selfish one at that. I'm really trying not to think that, but it seems to be true.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

fruey said:


> Well you know she's quite aggressive with me when I try to communicate my needs. Said most things were my problem, I was the person with the problem, I should see someone. I did for a while, but I can't afford it any more 🤷‍♂️
> 
> I start to feel like I have a narcissist as a wife, and a selfish one at that. I'm really trying not to think that, but it seems to be true.


So when she is aggressive what do you mean? How do you handle it? Have you expressed your belief that she is being selfish?

Some other things to consider. I don't get pedicures and facials and i don't buy a bunch of clothes. Sounds lovely and that I respect our finances right? Flip side many men would be like oh she doesn't dress up or stay nice looking for me type thing. Why did you marry her? Were looks a major consideration? Do you expect her to keep those up? Because the older you get the more expensive that is.

But yes she sounds selfish if she won't even talk about finances.

Is this something you are willing to separate over? Do you only have one child 15 years old?


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

PS it is always easy to say oh my spouse is a narcissist or they just don't care. I find usually these problems didn't start over night and they aren't going to be solved over night. Each relationship is different so comparing to others isn't useful.

So if you are a 20 year old that just married a millionare. Guess what. We all know she isn't contributing money to that relationship. It was built on him buying youth and her accepting money.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> So when she is aggressive what do you mean? How do you handle it? Have you expressed your belief that she is being selfish?
> 
> Some other things to consider. I don't get pedicures and facials and i don't buy a bunch of clothes. Sounds lovely and that I respect our finances right? Flip side many men would be like oh she doesn't dress up or stay nice looking for me type thing. Why did you marry her? Were looks a major consideration? Do you expect her to keep those up? Because the older you get the more expensive that is.
> 
> ...


Yes a son, he's 16. I never had looks as the major consideration; of course I found her pretty and still do - I set no expectations. I prefer her natural looks but she spends hours straightening her hair, making up, etc. So I have established she does that for her, not for me. I mostly see her natural anyway - in her pyjamas. She looks great going out in the morning to work, so her presentation is for her confidence outside of the home. 

I have told her that I believe her attitude is selfish. 

Her aggression is verbal - shouting, refusing to continue to talk about the subject at hand. It's never the "right time" to have serious discussions about finance. In some big arguments sometimes she'll come clean after the dust has settled; that's how I found out she had big debt. Mostly she never apologises, and we have had periods where we don't talk (apart from banal logistics) for days on end.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

So are these conversations planned or do you spring them on her. Do you set aside a time and place where your son isn't around and she knows it's coming?


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

Sounds like you have at least a 16yr problem. The thing is she will continue down this path and what happens when the 5 figure debt becomes 6 figures? At that point she'll suddenly want to "work together" or she might bail depending on the divorce laws in your country.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

thunderchad said:


> Women expect men to take the lead because they want their man to be a leader.
> 
> It sounds like you have failed to lead on multiple fronts.
> 
> Fix this asap.


This is true, whether women want to admit it. I however, have a husband that will not lead. Therefor, I've stepped up to keep us out of debt as much as possible as he loves to start a project, or two or three and never finish them. Blow a couple hundred here this month, a couple more next month.. He has NO clue what he spends, just swipes that CC whenever it strikes his fancy. 

It makes me crazy. However, he does bring the bulk of our income in and I choose to respect that and make these decisions where and when to cut something so he doesn't feel like he's getting the short end of the stick with the money he makes. 

If you have a respectable relationship with your spouse, having this tough discussion for the sake of your sanity and the future of your financial health should be s natural course.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> I however, have a husband that will not lead.


Really curious, how does this work? Do you resent him at all for having to take over? Do you have a good sex life still w/ him?


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Anastasia6 said:


> So are these conversations planned or do you spring them on her. Do you set aside a time and place where your son isn't around and she knows it's coming?


That's a good suggestion, plan talks. Son is a teenager so he's always holed up in his room on Discord voice chat anyway (more or less)


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

fruey said:


> Sadly, this is not possible. She does not want me to see any of her finances any more, I looked once or twice before and checked her spending to see what was going on (in a nice way, trying to reduce her debt accumulation, which has been going on for a long time).


After reading this and your other responses, it sounds like you have more of a roommate situation rather than a marriage. There is no trust in your relationship. Money issues are just a symptom of other underlying issues. You two may need to get into counseling in order to figure out what the real issues are.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

fruey said:


> That's a good suggestion, plan talks. Son is a teenager so he's always holed up in his room on Discord voice chat anyway (more or less)


Being in a room doesn't stop a loud discussion from being heard. It also doesn't mean your spouse is comfortable. I would suggest that if you are going to do it when he's home then at least have the conversation in the bedroom so that you aren't interrupted if he wants a drink or something.

I take it by your response you have a habit of bringing it up out of the blue. Which means not out of the blue. You bring it up when you are already frustrated and it just comes out.

That means you aren't having a thoughtful conversation that you've thought about what to say. that means you are having a ***** session and surprised when she responds with hostility.

Just because you may be right doesn't mean you can just spring this on her with abandon. Because things have been this way for 20 years you need to approach it more cautiously. You want to change and expectation that's been set.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

thunderchad said:


> Really curious, how does this work? Do you resent him at all for having to take over? Do you have a good sex life still w/ him?


I responded to you directly because I didn't want this thread to get hijacked because of a response.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> After reading this and your other responses, it sounds like you have more of a roommate situation rather than a marriage. There is no trust in your relationship. Money issues are just a symptom of other underlying issues. You two may need to get into counseling in order to figure out what the real issues are.


I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with "roommate" but bear in mind that the money issues have been more or less a part of our marriage from the outset. Several thousand euros, several times, have been sponged up by inheritances etc.

For me the issues have come from the my failure to actually address this correctly. Perhaps I should have walked away before. I have had assurances that it won't happen again but the holes get deeper each time. 



Anastasia6 said:


> Being in a room doesn't stop a loud discussion from being heard. It also doesn't mean your spouse is comfortable. I would suggest that if you are going to do it when he's home then at least have the conversation in the bedroom so that you aren't interrupted if he wants a drink or something.
> 
> I take it by your response you have a habit of bringing it up out of the blue. Which means not out of the blue. You bring it up when you are already frustrated and it just comes out.
> 
> ...


Oh, there have been discussions that were tabled in advance. It also comes up out of the blue because of frustration, you're right about that. But the expectation has been set and not met many times over. Also my son really cannot hear discussions from his room (upstairs and some distance away) if we are in the living area. Especially if no voices are raised. Even then, he can only hear that there is shouting, he cannot follow.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

OP,

That she's this way, is on her.

That you've put up with it, since the beginning of your marriage (per your words), is on you.

Not only will this continue, it will get worse.

You'll either set, maintain and enforce proper boundaries regarding this, or you won't.

To this point, you haven't.

I sense you feel you are the "victim" here, in all of this.

You're an adult, you have agency, you get to choose and make decisions and to this point you've chosen to allow for this to happen.

You get to choose what's going to happen going forward for you regarding this.

The ball has been and remains in your court.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Anastasia6 said:


> Being in a room doesn't stop a loud discussion from being heard. It also doesn't mean your spouse is comfortable. I would suggest that if you are going to do it when he's home then at least have the conversation in the bedroom so that you aren't interrupted if he wants a drink or something.
> 
> I take it by your response you have a habit of bringing it up out of the blue. Which means not out of the blue. You bring it up when you are already frustrated and it just comes out.
> 
> ...


The son is 16. If he wants a drink?


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> The son is 16. If he wants a drink?


He makes so much noise coming downstairs there's fair warning. He does occasionally appear for drinks and snacks of course .


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> OP,
> 
> I sense you feel you are the "victim" here, in all of this.
> 
> ...


Sadly the choice is looking a lot like separation, and I suppose one thing I have been all my life without fault is loyal. I feel leaving is disloyal. Collateral damage to son (and pets) is unfair. But you are right - having given ultimatums in the past and said I won't put up with it, I have.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

fruey said:


> Sadly the choice is looking a lot like separation, and I suppose one thing I have been all my life without fault is loyal. I feel leaving is disloyal. Collateral damage to son (and pets) is unfair. But you are right - having given ultimatums in the past and said I won't put up with it, I have.


You have to follow through on ultimatums. She has no reason to change, because unfortunately you showed her you won't actually do what you say. It may take a shock like divorce proceedings for her to realize you mean it.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> She’s run up 5 figures in debt, considers your money family money and her money hers.
> You’ve allowed it. That debt of hers is yours.
> You don’t have to ask permission to whether or not you allow someone to treat you a certain way. When you’re the responsible party and your partner takes advantage and us irresponsible, it’s wrong. But honestly, this is how it is in a lot of cases. Marriages end all the tone over finances.
> I suggest figuring out how to get your wife on board as a team player. Who knows how to do it? People rarely change without some kind of major disaster. She won’t make real changes unless forced to.


very well said. He makes more, his $ is hers and her $ is hers, that is not a marriage. It's a one sided business transaction that needs to be nullified.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

fruey said:


> Sadly the choice is looking a lot like separation, and I suppose one thing I have been all my life without fault is loyal. I feel leaving is disloyal. Collateral damage to son (and pets) is unfair. But you are right - having given ultimatums in the past and said I won't put up with it, I have.


this is why the 'my money is mine and your money is yours' doesn't work. Someone ultimately gets taken advantage of. My wife and I have separate accounts but that's mostly because we budget differently and we are protecting ourselves against identity theft if one of us gets hit.

If my budget is falling short, I reach into her accounts. If hers is, she reaches into mine. Everything that's mine is hers and vice versa. This way, she's not going on cruises while I sit back and bust my arse and eat ramen and again vice versa.

Now that you are in this hole and she is entitled, what do you plan to do about it ?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fruey said:


> We've had big rows about it. No common ground has been found, to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why do you allow this? Why does she have access to all the money and she spends it all?

You could open an account in your name only and have your pay go to that account. Then, you could either pay bills from your personal account. That way she has no direct access to anything you earn.

To be honest, I would divorce someone who was doing what your wife is doing. I would offer both marriage and financial counseling. If they refused, I'd file for divorce. Based on what you have said, she's ruining you financially and your relationship sucks.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

She stonewalls you and gives you the silent treatment, then continues to run up debt.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Is there a way you can separate finances?

Many couples have separate accounts for one reason or another. Most couples I know, that have separate accounts, is because they have a business and they want to protect their spouses from financial trouble. Well, in your case, your wife's spending is dangerous to your finances. 

Personally, I won't stay with someone who has a lot of debt, doesn't want to share his money, and wants all my money. No way, Jose!


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Some people want to be married on paper, but don’t want to participate in the marriage in other ways, or they may want out once things are looking sweet financially. So they do things to push a spouse away, but by also keeping them stuck in some way. They can pick a behaviour, like flirting, chatting to the opposite sex online, spending a lot, or limited housework, or limited sex or other limited contributions, excessive drinking.

They start small, to see how far they can push. The problem goes on and on for years, and in baby steps, gets bigger and bigger. They push each time, just to see how much further they can go the next time. You see, they really don’t want to stop this particular behaviour at all. But they don’t entirely want to leave. Or take any responsibility for the behaviour that’s leading to the demise of the marriage. They KNOW these things are deal breakers. 

It sounds like you have this raging cycle… the issue isn’t getting resolved, you’re ending up deeper in dept, you feel like you’re going insane and most people will say, when you finally need to tell outsiders, ‘why did you let it get this far’. Which makes you feel so much worse. And yet, you’ll find, when you really look at it, that you ARE leading.

So when you look at other contributions, really go back over the marriage, who is doing all the work?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

The big problem is you standing around letting it spiral out of control.
That’s totally up to you but you’re the one that gets to live with it.


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

pastasauce79 said:


> Is there a way you can separate finances?
> 
> Many couples have separate accounts for one reason or another. Most couples I know, that have separate accounts, is because they have a business and they want to protect their spouses from financial trouble. Well, in your case, your wife's spending is dangerous to your finances.


We already separate finances to some extent, but she runs up debt on her personal account and I cover costs that she doesn't contribute to from my personal account.



Luckylucky said:


> Some people want to be married on paper, but don’t want to participate in the marriage in other ways, or they may want out once things are looking sweet financially. So they do things to push a spouse away, but by also keeping them stuck in some way. They can pick a behaviour, like flirting, chatting to the opposite sex online, spending a lot, or limited housework, or limited sex or other limited contributions, excessive drinking.
> 
> They start small, to see how far they can push. The problem goes on and on for years, and in baby steps, gets bigger and bigger. They push each time, just to see how much further they can go the next time. You see, they really don’t want to stop this particular behaviour at all. But they don’t entirely want to leave. Or take any responsibility for the behaviour that’s leading to the demise of the marriage. They KNOW these things are deal breakers.
> 
> ...


Yes the spending a lot sort of feels like an addiction to me, and the pushing pushing is certainly true.



Marc878 said:


> The big problem is you standing around letting it spiral out of control.
> That’s totally up to you but you’re the one that gets to live with it.


The alternative - breaking up the marriage - is so horrid that it has gone really far, I agree. Her solution is to sell the house, rent somewhere, and buy a property to rent out to increase income. But she doesn't want to deal with any of the financial work that involves, or the tax declarations. So it's just "oh we should do this, now you handle it"...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Is your wife French?


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## fruey (11 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Is your wife French?


We're both dual nationality. She's French-Moroccan and I'm British-French. We got married in Morocco but the marriage is now legalised as French.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

fruey said:


> We're both dual nationality. She's French-Moroccan and I'm British-French. We got married in Morocco but the marriage is now legalised as French.


@fruey it's seems you can't reason with your wife, so here is my advice (please note, you need to have balls):
Draw divorce papers, and blindside her by it, put it on the table and beside it is your list of changes you want to see (Your list should be fair and attainable)!
Your list should be the main points. Example: access to her finance, cancel credit cards, contribute more.. Etc.

Tell her to choose which one she wants, it is not negotiable, you will go out for a walk/drive and when you come back you will expect from her to make a decision!
Tell her if she didn't then you will assume it's divorce!
Don't argue or try to defend or explain your list, she knows!
Just put it on the table tell her to choose, stand up and take a walk or go someplace for half an hour!
Your wife is an Arab (Moroccan), I worked in the middle east for years and women their only respect leadership and strength!

I believe she will choose the list over the divorce, if she chooses divorce, then you got your answer, this is you best shot!


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## David60525 (Oct 5, 2021)

fruey said:


> Hello
> 
> We've been married for 20 years. My wife earns about 55% of my salary and I have never expected or demanded that she contribute 35% of our costs (which would be her mathematical "proportion").
> 
> ...


If you both decide she will be a stay at home mom until kids are age 16 yes. You take the lead and control budget, but make her feel like a team member. All spending for the iteme she loves stops. Let her choose 2
Next option, no reason for a woman to stay home, get her rear end to make money. Now
Cut expenses and save her stash. You say she is down to provide 22%. OK. She may earn 62% of your salary. [email protected] thay 40% goes to a safety nest egg, you need both need to cut the fun stuff. If she is Cavelier about mariage health and financial health walk out now while you are young enough to 
Recover. Read up on what you both want together. Read the tactical guide to women.
If you arecboth not careful you are headed to the #1 reason to divorce. Money and entitlement, second is sex.
Good luck to you.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

I highly recommend couples going through Dave Ramsay's Financial Peace University. It changed our financial lives. After working at gazelle intensity to pay off our debt with the debt snowball method, we attacked the mortgage. We now have no credit cards, no car payments, no loans, no mortgage. Our budget is super simple. 

We also have agreed to a rule together. Each payday, we get x.xx amount of free cash to spend each. We can save it, spend it, or invest it. We might poke fun at each others purchases, but we don't discourage them.


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## Catcha128 (8 mo ago)

I hv a different situation. I pay 99% family expenses, do 90% housework and I hv not had facial and mani/pedi since.... lost count, I use the cheapest cosmetics in the market. I can understand how this is frustrating. I dont know what to do either other than venting. I earn a lot but save so little because I hv to pay for everyone's expenses, sometimes I feel like a slave to my family - I slog to make everyone happy.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

fruey said:


> We've had big rows about it. No common ground has been found, to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First thing make a percentage of your income directly into YOUR disposable income.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Catcha128 said:


> I hv a different situation. I pay 99% family expenses, do 90% housework and I hv not had facial and mani/pedi since.... lost count, I use the cheapest cosmetics in the market. I can understand how this is frustrating. I dont know what to do either other than venting. I earn a lot but save so little because I hv to pay for everyone's expenses, sometimes I feel like a slave to my family - I slog to make everyone happy.


Do you have a spouse/partner and why aren't they contributing more?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You said you have regular rows.
Stop this.
Stop rowing a sinking boat.

Fix the leaks, that unrestrained spending of hers.

Calmly tell her unless she reigns in her spending and tosses her bad attitude overboard, you are considering serious changes.

Then walk away, do not row in circles again with those unproductive arguments.

She will not conform with that one swat with that rolled newspaper to her sensibilities.

Expect her to stew and come back at you, sooner or later, with an unmeasured response.

Do not use the divorce threat, unless you mean it.

She is not afraid of hurting your feelings, she has lost respect for you.

Is she resentful, or just condescending?


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

Catcha128 said:


> I hv a different situation. I pay 99% family expenses, do 90% housework and I hv not had facial and mani/pedi since.... lost count, I use the cheapest cosmetics in the market. I can understand how this is frustrating. I dont know what to do either other than venting. I earn a lot but save so little because I hv to pay for everyone's expenses, sometimes I feel like a slave to my family - I slog to make everyone happy.


Walk in and have a family meeting. Say I absolutely do not mind contributing to this family through chores and finances, but I should not be the one responsible for most everything around here. I need time for myself just like the rest of you. We are now going to sit down and create a chore chart to divide up the duties so we can maintain an orderly house without one person feeling overwhelmed....... I don't know your family size, but here is an example.

Monday - She does the bathroom and starts laundry
Tuesday- He picks up the toys from kids and mows the yard 
Wednesday- kid cleans the kitchen

You get the idea here. But make it to where Saturday and Sunday or some specified day is a relaxation day. Also do a chart with your spouse on the finances. He is responsible for mortgage/insurance/x/x and you are responsible for utilities/x/x. My wife and I have a budget that consists of what we call guilt free money. It's a certain equal amount each payday that we can freely spend on whatever we want without questions or judgement, or we can save it. If I come home with some neat manly gizmo that was glittery and sparkled, she might chuckle but it's ok 😂.

With the chore list, be flexible. You might find he hates mowing the grass, but you love it. That is ok, find out if someone in the family tolerates or even likes a particular task and give it to them. Just don't continue down this path of doing most everything. You have got to have some you time and you don't want the resentment to build


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

fruey said:


> Well you know she's quite aggressive with me when I try to communicate my needs. Said most things were my problem, I was the person with the problem, I should see someone. I did for a while, but I can't afford it any more 🤷‍♂️
> 
> I start to feel like I have a narcissist as a wife, and a selfish one at that. I'm really trying not to think that, but it seems to be true.


You said you had a *dark period* with having depression.
It happens, it is not something one can easily avoid.
It often is a brain chemical imbalance.

I suspect that is when she lost respect for you.

Many people self-soothe with spending.
Even spending can be an addiction.

You said she can be arrogant.
Uh,yeah, that is helpful.


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