# New Member Here! Old Dating Profiles, Newly Discovered



## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

* New to forum. Hello all, and thanks in advance.* My wife of 26 years and I never ever used dating web sites in our dating days. They did not really exist in 1990-92. Last Fall, however, dating sites, became an issue.
* When I was typing the word "bad luck" into a Google search on the family computer, a cookie link to the dating site Badoo popped up. At first, i thought it was some sort of web site spam, but I went ahead and clicked on the cookie in Safari.* It went straight to the Badoo dating web site, to* an account profille page, which was created in 2010. The profile info page included my wife's first name, maiden name, initial, age, hometown, password reset options and the enabled option to meet new friends.
* The Badoo site template was in Spanish language, as my wife is from South America. I converted the site language to the English option, so I could better understand it. All basic info was correct, age, city of location, etc. It. The option To Meet New Friends was activated in the settings. And there was a password that i eventually figured out There were no archived messages or open chats, and the last email message from Badoo was sent in 2012. But I subsequently discovered 10 old mail emails from 2010 to 2012 on Aol that Badoo had sent her from that time period. I clicked the emails and each one opened a message from a potential male suitor in the account page of Badoo.
* These Badoo emails were from interested men, who made their various romantic pitches, and these responses were relayed by Badoo through email. Interested parties then click on if they want more contact. There was nothing that indicated these messages had been responded to, but the emails were previously opened, based on AOL sent and open time logs for each email.

* Frankly, *I was shocked by this dating site discovery from nearly 10 years in the past. It was right in that time period of our biggest intimacy gap in the marriage. Little sex, wife hypercritical of me, not much intimacy; she had joined a gym, joined a craft group, and Zumba dancing class, as well as working full time and working for her PhD. Not much alone time then with an ADHD child. (Things improved by 2014 after I insisted on a discussion about the lack of sex, which had become once a month).
* Back to 2018,* I then found email references to two other dating sites, also created in 2010, by typing the words "dating site" into her email search.* First, I found an email that referenced Tagged.com, which also is a dating site. My wife admitted that she joined Tagged. She said that she joined tagged to message her old boss Linda, who had an account, and had asked my wife to join her for texting sessions. My wife had not worked for Linda for five years.
** I also discovered a 2012 email from a Hispanic woman, who was my wife's friend; she wanted wife to became a friend on the dating site, Hi5. No evidence she ever did.
So here was this info about about three dating sites that I never knew nor was told about, until i discoverd them. I asked my wife* "Why would a married person need a dating site account to text with friends." At first she said perhaps the Badoo account was a fraud. Maybe it was a hacked,* bogus account that was gleamed from Facebook info. However, I pointed out the account had a real password that was one of her password options she used for web accounts.
* She then looked at the Badoo page that I found *and said that it*showed no real dating activity or message chats being responded to by her.*Just the AOL emails that opened to the previously mentioned men intro chats. There also was no photo of my wife.
* Wife later offered an unsolicited, second explanation of the* Badoo account. She said she must have set up the account to message her friends in South America because texting is free from Badoo (but only if you respond to an* introduction request). I asked her why she did not use her Facebook acct to text her overseas friends for free, or just email. She did not have an answer at first, but later said she could not remember even setting it up. This is a woman who never forgets anything said to me or by me ever...
* She* also said she never noticed the dating contact emails from Badoo to her AOL, even though they were found in the old mail folder, not new mail.
* After a two hour discussion about the dating sites, she said she deleted her Badoo account. Then my wife opened the tagged.com profile page with a recovery password that she created; there were a bunch of messages, but she deleted them before I could read them. Said they were nothing. I asked why her married boss, Linda, would be on that dating site, and why would she invite u to join this site. My wife said she did not know. But she did not recall using it either.
** Because of wife's penchant for omitting things:
(Example: an Oct. 2017 Facebook photo and video post of her and a divorced guy from her gym whose name she said she did not know,* yucking it up during a dinner at their joint birthday celebration. I was told prior about the dinner plans (but not invited), but she ommitted telling me about the photos/video that were taken by a female gym mate who had* set up the dinner. This person took the photos, posted them to her FB site,* and then sent a photo link to my wife's imessage. I had asked my wife about the dinner, but she never mentioned the posted pix.)
* These discoveries,*and not being very close during the 2009-2013 time period, have stuck in my crawl. Was there something going on? Any thoughts? It certainly bugs me that I discovered these sites.
* I said to her that, for whatever reason she created the dating site accounts, I did not believe that she did not know they were dating sites. It is all there in front of u. You have to put in your info to activate it. She maintains, "I did not know it was a dating site, and I dont remember using it."
* Am I making a big deal out of this?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I think you’re going to find out a lot more if you investigate further. In my opinion your wife has cheating on you for some time and now she’s not. All she wants you to do is forget about it and move on. 
Can you live with this?
I know I couldn’t.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

No you are not. A married person has NO reason to go onto a dating site and setting up an account .Dating sites are for dating, not for contacting old female friends. 
Also why were you not invited to your own wife's birthday celebration???Seems odd to me. 

So this leaves you with what you do about it now, especially since she is clearly denying what happened.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Your wife is full of ****. 

She deleted the incriminating evidence in front of you. 

Now..what do you intend to do about it?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

There is WAY more to this. Her story changes about badoo (when she thinks she's made up a better story), her "I don't remember" is pure BS -- she knows, and she is trying to deflect you. NO way a married boss asks her to join a dating site just to text -- there are TONS of free text apps for that. Again, pure BS. (BTW, if you have her boss' details on the web site, you may want to ping her husband with that info...) I agree with Andy -- she was cheating on you, you didn't catch her, and now she has stopped.
Do you have any of her old phones? If so, try doing recovery on them. Try to get her phone NOW and see if there is anything there (don't let her know).
Do NOT tell her you are doing this investigation, but you need to -- you are not getting the truth from her.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

I should clarify that i never went into the tagged account when i first discovered she had it. I confronted her, she did not remember the password. She opened it with a password recovery. I brieflly saw the page, saw her delete several text conversations before i could read them. She said she deleted the account, but actually it was still there i found out later. I changed the password and got in. The account was still there. There were no texts, and it was true that her old boss Linda was listed as a friend on tagged. Dont know what they were doing there. My wife and I had attended Linda's wedding a few years before.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

MrHmm said:


> I should clarify that i never went into the tagged account when i first discovered she had it. I confronted her, she did not remember the password. She opened it with a password recovery. I brieflly saw the page, saw her delete several text conversations before i could read them. She said she deleted the account, but actually it was still there i found out later. I changed the password and got in. The account was still there. There were no texts, and it was true that her old boss Linda was listed as a friend on tagged. Dont know what they were doing there. My wife and I had attended Linda's wedding a few years before.


You're not possibly suggesting there's nothing to worry about...are you?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Contact a lawyer immediately. Get all your ducks in a row and do what you have to so you can keep your sanity. Cheaters never change



MrHmm said:


> * New to forum. Hello all, and thanks in advance.* My wife of 26 years and I never ever used dating web sites in our dating days. They did not really exist in 1990-92. Last Fall, however, dating sites, became an issue.
> * When I was typing the word "bad luck" into a Google search on the family computer, a cookie link to the dating site Badoo popped up. At first, i thought it was some sort of web site spam, but I went ahead and clicked on the cookie in Safari.* It went straight to the Badoo dating web site, to* an account profille page, which was created in 2010. The profile info page included my wife's first name, maiden name, initial, age, hometown, password reset options and the enabled option to meet new friends.
> * The Badoo site template was in Spanish language, as my wife is from South America. I converted the site language to the English option, so I could better understand it. All basic info was correct, age, city of location, etc. It. The option To Meet New Friends was activated in the settings. And there was a password that i eventually figured out There were no archived messages or open chats, and the last email message from Badoo was sent in 2012. But I subsequently discovered 10 old mail emails from 2010 to 2012 on Aol that Badoo had sent her from that time period. I clicked the emails and each one opened a message from a potential male suitor in the account page of Badoo.
> * These Badoo emails were from interested men, who made their various romantic pitches, and these responses were relayed by Badoo through email. Interested parties then click on if they want more contact. There was nothing that indicated these messages had been responded to, but the emails were previously opened, based on AOL sent and open time logs for each email.
> ...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

cheaters have a hard time coming up with lies when they are not prepared...she was not prepared for the truth therefore she used the fall back plan of saying she did not remember....classic...i would tell her that you do not trust her words and that if she wants to stay married than you will set up a polygraph for her to take and see if she is telling the truth.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Let's see, she became a member of 3 dating sites, is lying to you about them, hid them from you to begin with and has a history of lying, sneaking and shady behavior with other men like Facebook gym guy?

Looks like a serial cheater and very consistent liar from this side of the screen.

It would seem that whenever you discover her less than stellar behavior, she simply lies to you and deletes the evidence.

Doesn't sound very attractive to me for any kind of relationship, much less marriage, but to each their own.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

I did find on her old Android phone from that period, 2011 to 2013, a few stray chat group messages whose phone numbers were not known to me, but they included Linda's number. One inbound message said "Aww XXX and OOOs," but I dont know if it was to my wife or someone else in the group.
The person who asked why I was not invited to the gym buddy birthday dinner. My wife told me about it, and I suggested I go along. But my wife said the woman friend was uncomfortable with me going since it would be like a double date and the woman was not comfortable with that. My wife told me she had to honor her friends wish.
According to my wife, the guy was her friend's friend first, and the friend liked him as a friend, but not as a boyfriend. Thus, as explained to me, my attendance at the dinner would make it seem l like a double date and be awkward.
Btw, When I asked my wife what the guy's name was, she said not know his name, "maybe Mike or Rick, and dont ask me again." That is when I started to question more, and she then told me I was crazy and needed to see a therapist. She said she was offended about my questions. I eventually got the name and more from her. The guy lives one mile from us.
I discovered the dinner photos and short video on her friend's Facebook page. My wife on one side of the table, the guy on the other. They were laughing and talking. But my wife never told me the pictures existed. I asked why. She said she thought she looked ugly, and thus they became "unimportant."


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

MrHmm said:


> I did find on her old Android phone from that period, 2011 to 2013, a few stray chat group messages whose phone numbers were not known to me, but they included Linda's number. SO this shoots down her story that she joined the one dating site so that she could chat with Linda, doesn't it?? Obviously, she could have just chatted on the phone.One inbound message said "Aww XXX and OOOs," but I dont know if it was to my wife or someone else in the group.
> The person who asked why I was not invited to the gym buddy birthday dinner. My wife told me about it, and I suggested I go along. But my wife said the woman friend was uncomfortable with me going since it would be like a double date and the woman was not comfortable with that. My wife told me she had to honor her friends wish. The double date would have been your wife and HER BF from the gym, and you -- that YOU would have been double dating your wife since she already had a date. Surely you see this.
> According to my wife, the guy was her friend's friend first, and the friend liked him as a friend, but not as a boyfriend. Thus, as explained to me, my attendance at the dinner would make it seem l like a double date and be awkward.
> Btw, When I asked my wife what the guy's name was, she said not know his name, "maybe Mike or Rick, and dont ask me again." Again, clear deflection and guilt. She CERTAINLY knows his name and MANY other things about him... That is when I started to question more, and she then told me I was crazy and needed to see a therapist. She said she was offended about my questions. I eventually got the name and more from her. The guy lives one mile from us. Are you sure they are still NOT in contact? When she is out, you need to go through your house with a fine-toothed comb and look for burner phones......
> I discovered the dinner photos and short video on her friend's Facebook page. My wife on one side of the table, the guy on the other. They were laughing and talking. But my wife never told me the pictures existed. I asked why. She said she thought she looked ugly, and thus they became "unimportant." It became "unimportant" so that YOU wouldn't get a hint of what was going on....


Seriously, do NOT confront your wife again -- do your detective work first. You may want to VAR your house and/or GPS her car if you don't believe what she is telling you. Also, her friends have probably supported her in her affair (since according to them it's probably YOUR fault she had to cheat -- which of course it is NOT!), so you need to be wary around them also.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

To the person who asked wether i was suggesting nothing was going on, no. I have confronted her with what I know. Its created tremendous tension, but still want to know for sure.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

I dont believe she is in contact with guy. She quit the gym after this episode, and mostly unfriended the lady gym friend who set up the dinner. I am not sure what happened between the guy and my wife, if anything. I never found his number on her phone, though he is on Hangouts as she is. He is not in her HO contact list. I did see some texts a few months after the original dinner from the woman gym friend, saying that the guy, would like to go out with the two of them again. Like my wife, the friend never referred to the guy by name. Just "my friend."
My wife does not need a burner phone, she has Whats Up, Hang Outs, Skype, two Messenger accounts, multiple emails, etc. And in 2012, created a another gmail account that is her first name and maiden last name. For that account she jettisoned the hyphenated last name we have used since day 1. She said she needed a separate email account to correspond with fellow class mates in the doctoral program. I asked why the maiden name only, she said it was easy.
Although I have access to her phone and computer, The Badoo emails Tagged emails are the only solid evidence of extra curricular activity.
Because I dont know what I am looking for, there are other "strange" things I have found. But more on that later.
My wife insists that this circumstancial evidence looks bad when a paranoid mind links it together.
She said you could find this kind of activity by any person.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

jlg07 said:


> ....her "I don't remember" is pure BS -- she knows....


Yup, even the OP says she remembers everything. 

Memory of convenience is an effective means of control, and usually in concert with trickle truth. 

Highly frustrating!


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

MrHmm said:


> She said you could find this kind of activity by any person.


The rationalization hamster is strong with this one.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Google the term "gaslighting". Your wife is a master at it. 

I am not saying this lightly...but your marriage as you thought you knew it is about to be significantly altered. It is sort of like that scene in The Matrix, where Neo has the choice to take the red pill or the blue pill. The blue pill will take you back to the ignorant, content relationship you thought you have always had with your wife. The red pill will result in you realizing your wife has been manipulating you for a significant amount of time, and is likely a serial adulterer.

The choice is yours at this point.



MrHmm said:


> I did find on her old Android phone from that period, 2011 to 2013, a few stray chat group messages whose phone numbers were not known to me, but they included Linda's number. One inbound message said "Aww XXX and OOOs," but I dont know if it was to my wife or someone else in the group.
> The person who asked why I was not invited to the gym buddy birthday dinner. My wife told me about it, and I suggested I go along. But my wife said the woman friend was uncomfortable with me going since it would be like a double date and the woman was not comfortable with that. My wife told me she had to honor her friends wish.
> According to my wife, the guy was her friend's friend first, and the friend liked him as a friend, but not as a boyfriend. Thus, as explained to me, my attendance at the dinner would make it seem l like a double date and be awkward.
> Btw, When I asked my wife what the guy's name was, she said not know his name, "maybe Mike or Rick, and dont ask me again." That is when I started to question more, and she then told me I was crazy and needed to see a therapist. She said she was offended about my questions. I eventually got the name and more from her. The guy lives one mile from us.
> I discovered the dinner photos and short video on her friend's Facebook page. My wife on one side of the table, the guy on the other. They were laughing and talking. But my wife never told me the pictures existed. I asked why. She said she thought she looked ugly, and thus they became "unimportant."


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Can you accept that this will be tense for some time to come? If you fear or avoid the tension, nothing...NOTHING...will change.



MrHmm said:


> To the person who asked wether i was suggesting nothing was going on, no. I have confronted her with what I know. Its created tremendous tension, but still want to know for sure.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"My wife does not need a burner phone, she has Whats Up, Hang Outs, Skype, two Messenger accounts, multiple emails, etc. And in 2012, created a another gmail account that is her first name and maiden last name. For that account she jettisoned the hyphenated last name we have used since day 1. She said she needed a separate email account to correspond with fellow class mates in the doctoral program. I asked why the maiden name only, she said it was easy.
So she has MULTIPLE email accounts, and MULTIPLE message applications, and yet you stil believe that she needed to be on a dating site to message her old boss? REALLY?
Although I have access to her phone and computer, The Badoo emails Tagged emails are the only solid evidence of extra curricular activity.
Because I dont know what I am looking for, there are other "strange" things I have found. But more on that later.
My wife insists that this circumstancial evidence looks bad when a paranoid mind links it together.
She said you could find this kind of activity by any person."

It is NOT paranoid when the evidence does NOT add up and just doesn't make sense. Her lying make paranoia not required to have doubts about this.....


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

this goes well beyond the usual red flags, they are more like red gigantic monuments the size of the Eiffel tower.


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## DoesItGetBetter? (Aug 16, 2019)

Wow - OP, you should contact a private investigator. Can you get your hands on any and all electronic devices that she has touched and take them to a forensic analyst for processing? The answers to your questions lie in her electronic devices. You need to see what is in there, what she has been hiding from you. You're about to find out exactly who you are married to...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

when ever a spouse say to you that your are crazy or need therapy because you are making making mountains out of mole hills you can at absolutely guarantee you are not...that is clear use of gas lighting...where is what i recommend i would google divorce lawyers and spouse cheating....make sure you leave it up and don't say anything and when she ask, tell her that you are crazy and its nothing


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

She deletes old messages from iphone quickly. No archive on icloud. I have some other personal things that dont make sense. Stay tuned. I am relying on gut and observations.
I found the Badoo site via dumb luck and the emails. Tagged was a search resulting from finding badoo. I won't abandon marriage yet til I found out more. 
My point in posting the dating site accounts was to see if the norm reaction is one of deep suspicion or is it a bad but not so bad thing. I have felt all along she has gas lighted me on this, diminshing its real significance and blaming my childhood (parents divorce ), which she said skews my sense of reality...My gut and good sense have never bought it. I dont think she is up to anything right now because I drive her to work and pick her up, and that is only time she is away.


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

You should be looking through her messages on the chatting apps . Those apps are for cheating .


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

Use fonelab to recover any deleted text messages on her iPhone. I would even use it on her old phones


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

I am from South America as well. I have family and friends back home and I've never used a dating site to be in touch with any of my old friends.

I mostly use WhatsApp and FB messenger to chat. My husband sees me typing and he's more than welcome to check my conversations. He uses my FB account to post things since he doesn't have one. 

I have my group of Hispanic girlfriends, we go out for coffee or drinks, we are all married and you don't see us hanging out with other men. I can't imagine celebrating my birthday without my husband.

I don't know if you are going to find more suspicious stuff from your wife, but the excuse of using dating sites to communicate with others in her home country is BS. 

How many email accounts do you really need? One personal email account is enough for me.

Sorry you are going through this...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> The rationalization hamster is strong with this one.


She said? 

Dude, regretfully it sounds like you've accidentally discovered the tip of an iceberg.

By confronting her she's warned now, and is herself searching and deleting incriminating online evidence of likely dalliances. 

I hope that was done during difficult times for you both is ancient history but the odds are there was more, perhaps is still more.

The pictures thing discovery was after she said there was nothing else, and what else is out there besides that?

Hoping for the best 👍👍


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

MrHmm said:


> She deletes old messages from iphone quickly. No archive on icloud. I have some other personal things that dont make sense. Stay tuned. I am relying on gut and observations.
> I found the Badoo site via dumb luck and the emails. Tagged was a search resulting from finding badoo. I won't abandon marriage yet til I found out more.
> My point in posting the dating site accounts was to see if the norm reaction is one of deep suspicion or is it a bad but not so bad thing. I have felt all along she has gas lighted me on this, diminshing its real significance and blaming my childhood (parents divorce ), which she said skews my sense of reality...My gut and good sense have never bought it. I dont think she is up to anything right now because I drive her to work and pick her up, and that is only time she is away.


Have you done some more in depth searching online, other dating sites, etc?


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

Your gut is telling you that she cheated . You better listen to it . Your mind will try to say different don't listen to your mind listen to your gut . 

There is 2 main reasons sex goes down in a marriage . 1 is someone is cheating and 2 is medical . I would say yours would be a number 1 . 

Her old boss probably started her down that road . And her old female friend was in on it too . Time for you to do some pi work . I bet the gym guy could say alot about your wife . You might want to get a friend of yours to befriend him and get him talking about her .


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

MrHmm said:


> I did find on her old Android phone from that period, 2011 to 2013, a few stray chat group messages whose phone numbers were not known to me, but they included Linda's number. One inbound message said "Aww XXX and OOOs," but I dont know if it was to my wife or someone else in the group.
> The person who asked why I was not invited to the gym buddy birthday dinner. My wife told me about it, and I suggested I go along. But my wife said the woman friend was uncomfortable with me going since it would be like a double date and the woman was not comfortable with that. My wife told me she had to honor her friends wish.
> According to my wife, the guy was her friend's friend first, and the friend liked him as a friend, but not as a boyfriend. Thus, as explained to me, my attendance at the dinner would make it seem l like a double date and be awkward.
> Btw, When I asked my wife what the guy's name was, she said not know his name, "maybe Mike or Rick, and dont ask me again." That is when I started to question more, and she then told me I was crazy and needed to see a therapist. She said she was offended about my questions. I eventually got the name and more from her. The guy lives one mile from us.
> I discovered the dinner photos and short video on her friend's Facebook page. My wife on one side of the table, the guy on the other. They were laughing and talking. But my wife never told me the pictures existed. I asked why. She said she thought she looked ugly, and thus they became "unimportant."


Sir, if a party was held that my wife was going and my presence would cause a problem....my wife would not go. I would do the same if my wife was somehow unwelcome. This is what marriage is about. I'm sorry, your W was up to something at this party.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

MrHmm said:


> My wife insists that this circumstancial evidence looks bad when a paranoid mind links it together.
> .


I'm sorry, your W needs to explain herself and not make you look some how...bad. She needs to find the burden of proof that nothing has happened. Not you.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

To pastasauce79
Thank you for your opinion. My wife telling me a dating site is used for chatting sounds far fetched to me as well, but then again maybe if its free, someone will do it. Even though I found no dating flirt messages at all, I found the badoo emails from 2011 and 2012 and they were in the opened file, not new. She had to know it was a dating site. Flirty dating site texts can be deleted.
My wife does use WhatsApp and FB to chat with her college South American friends who I know of. She told me about them.
It was fate that I discovered her Badoo account. The tagged was dug up by a rising suspicion after Badoo. I did not find any others, but never say never.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

What do you folks think about her having that unknown to me, extra gmail with her maiden name and not the hyphenated name she had been using for 15 years. She said she used it for school, but I asked why when she already already had first gmail, aol and yahoo and hot mail. She said she can no longer check 2nd gmail acct because the password was forgotten. But I see an extra Googe Voice account using that particular email.
I could reset the email, but her recovery password is done through her cell text, not email. She would see the change. Who knows, maybe its legit. Just caught up in all the secrecy.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think that other account is VERY suspect. If you can do the reset while YOU get a hold of her phone so you can delete any notification, do that.
She may have already gone through it and cleaned it up (while she "forgot" the password....).


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrHmm said:


> What do you folks think about her having that unknown to me, extra gmail with her maiden name and not the hyphenated name she had been using for 15 years. She said she used it for school, but I asked why when she already already had first gmail, aol and yahoo and hot mail. She said she can no longer check 2nd gmail acct because the password was forgotten. But I see an extra Googe Voice account using that particular email.
> I could reset the email, but her recovery password is done through her cell text, not email. She would see the change. Who knows, maybe its legit. Just caught up in all the secrecy.


You messed up by confrontng too early. She has already removed or deleted anything you can see that is incriminating. I bet she remembered the password, but you aren't thinking clearly and she used your stress against you.

Personally, the second account is nothing at all. It is the dating sites, the two girls one guy date, the deleting of messages in your face and you looking for reasons to believe her lies.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

First of all buddy you know she’s guilty right. Your wife is a cheater and cheaters lie. So what are you going to do about it she gaslighting you. She’s telling you that you’re crazy and paranoid. OK this is going to get really bad from here on out you better prepare for complete fall out. In other words your marriage is over as you knew it. Do you not rug sweep. By your wife’s reaction so far you’re in trouble she’s going to fight deny and lie all the way through this. I would file for divorce. And if she decides to be decent an adult after handing her divorce papers and providing you all the information she has, maybe you could reconcile with her. but until that she not even near a good candidate to reconcile with.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@MrHmm I think your wife was either cheating on you or looking to cheat on you.

Therefore I have moved your thread to the Coping With Infidelity sub forum.

You need to learn more about her previous and current activities. Sorry.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> I did find on her old Android phone from that period, 2011 to 2013, a few stray chat group messages whose phone numbers were not known to me, but they included Linda's number. One inbound message said "Aww XXX and OOOs," but I dont know if it was to my wife or someone else in the group.
> The person who asked why I was not invited to the gym buddy birthday dinner. My wife told me about it, and I suggested I go along. But my wife said the woman friend was uncomfortable with me going since it would be like a double date and the woman was not comfortable with that. My wife told me she had to honor her friends wish.
> According to my wife, the guy was her friend's friend first, and the friend liked him as a friend, but not as a boyfriend. Thus, as explained to me, my attendance at the dinner would make it seem l like a double date and be awkward.
> Btw, When I asked my wife what the guy's name was, she said not know his name, "maybe Mike or Rick, and dont ask me again." That is when I started to question more, and she then told me I was crazy and needed to see a therapist. She said she was offended about my questions. I eventually got the name and more from her. The guy lives one mile from us.
> I discovered the dinner photos and short video on her friend's Facebook page. My wife on one side of the table, the guy on the other. They were laughing and talking. But my wife never told me the pictures existed. I asked why. She said she thought she looked ugly, and thus they became "unimportant."


Your "wife" did not want you at her birthday celebration.

Now, THAT is what looks ugly.

I am on a train. Yesterday they had a livestock auction near the station I just went through and there is still a very strong smell of animal urine and ammonia.

It's a nasty smell. But it still doesn't smell as bad as your "wife's" attitude to you and your marriage.

Investigate and believe nothing she says without independent verification.

A polygraph test for her might be worth considering.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MrHmm said:


> My wife insists that this circumstancial evidence looks bad when a paranoid mind links it together.
> She said you could find this kind of activity by any person.


I don't think we can really help you if you seriously consider statements she makes like this.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

MrHmm said:


> Then my wife opened the tagged.com profile page with a recovery password that she created; there were a bunch of messages, but she deleted them before I could read them.


Your wife is as sleazy as it gets. What a snake.

She's a sneak and a liar and a fraud - and you *know* it. You just desperately don't want to believe it and the poster who said you're looking hard for reasons to accept her lies is right on the money.

The biggest mistake you're making is acting *far too passive*. The woman has disrespected you and **** all over you three ways to Sunday, and you're so passive you're actually asking us if you're just making a big deal out of things. 

I'm going to be blunt - if you're always this passive then I can see why she's lost her respect for you. Not many women respect men they can push around and who are _so _passive that they'll pretty much accept anything you dump in their laps. There's NO dignity in that for you at ALL.

It's time to find your spine and take care of business, don't you think? And by that, I don't mean questioning her about her emails and believing her lying bull****.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> I don't think we can really help you if you seriously consider statements she makes like this.


 This is just a simple case of suspension of disbelief.

Sadly, the OP wants _*so *_badly to believe the utter bull**** his lying wife is spewing that he's willing to suspend all critical thinking and logic in order to be able to believe her nonsense. Otherwise, he'd clearly SEE how ridiculous her entire lying story has been.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> This is just a simple case of suspension of disbelief.
> 
> Sadly, the OP wants _*so *_badly to believe the utter bull**** his lying wife is spewing that he's willing to suspend all critical thinking and logic in order to be able to believe her nonsense. Otherwise, he'd clearly SEE how ridiculous her entire lying story has been.


He loves his wife. And he thought, thinks... hopes, that she loves him.

His wife has turned into a "What's wrong with this picture?" puzzle and he can't quite, yet, understand his new, not very good, reality.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Lostinthought61 said:


> cheaters have a hard time coming up with lies when they are not prepared...she was not prepared for the truth therefore she used the fall back plan of saying she did not remember....classic...i would tell her that you do not trust her words and that if she wants to stay married than you will set up a polygraph for her to take and see if she is telling the truth.


Understand, this though it may cost your marriage.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> You messed up by confrontng too early. She has already removed or deleted anything you can see that is incriminating. I bet she remembered the password, but you aren't thinking clearly and she used your stress against you.
> 
> Personally, the second account is nothing at all. It is the dating sites, the two girls one guy date, the deleting of messages in your face and you looking for reasons to believe her lies.


Understand a signing onto sites that offer forums to communicate, etc. always asks for a email address. I suspect she made the new gmail with maiden name so you would not find out and get access to the site. This site being a dating site. Probably more. If you can get into her old gmail I think you will find your answers.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

And, use been-verified site it should tell you all the social media she is on, it cost a trivial amount and put both her name's to check her out. Don't let on that you are using this site and if you use your phone lock it. It's the minimum you can do right now. I know it sounds ilogical but this will let her know that you suspect something and leave her feeling uneasy for sure. Don't confront anymore play her game and be cool because it will be hard as hell. When you start unraveling the history.

As far as you dropping her off and such, she can always get picked up. Or it may be someone where she is working. It sucks to be where you are at, the fear and anger will only grow. Be Cool though! She really thinks your under the log and eat the crap she feeds you. If you can use the 
Find my phone app for the iPhone. This way you can see where her phone is at, and this eliminates one item. Disclosure is due to you. Her intelligence thinks you are inferior. And she can would you into what she can manipulate. Sorry your here.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Perhaps she is bi-sexual and had something going on with her old boss.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MrHmm said:


> My wife insists that this circumstantial evidence looks bad when a paranoid mind links it together.
> She said you could find this kind of activity by any person.


Maybe, maybe not.

She may have been cheating, maybe not.

Stop questioning her, and do the detective thing. Get two or more voice activated recorders and find out what she is saying. 
Yes, and find out what her passwords are using a hidden camera.

Run recovery software on her new and old phones.

If you find anything suspicious, keep quiet, keep digging.

You may find nothing, and there is nothing bad about that!



LMc-


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

MrHmm

Here is your solution in a nutshell, schedule a polygraph and surprise her with it. Refusal to take said polygraph is divorce. You can search like this for months, only to find more, but also understand the incriminating will be deleted. What you have found is incriminating, but she now knows you are looking, so she will delete what can’t be explained and leave other sites alone to show she did nothing. You also have to consider what you haven’t found as well, and what you may never find. For this reason I say to polygraph now, not later, for your own sanity. Schedule it and tell her you are taking her somewhere special. In the parking lot is when you tell her why you are there. My opinion is that she has been cheating or even double dating with her friends for years. Oh, and one other thing, she will refuse the polygraph which is all you need to know.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yeswecan said:


> Understand a signing onto sites that offer forums to communicate, etc. always asks for a email address. I suspect she made the new gmail with maiden name so you would not find out and get access to the site. This site being a dating site. Probably more. If you can get into her old gmail I think you will find your answers.


He told her about this gmail account. 
She deleted the first one when he told her. She cleared one while he was watching, when he told her. She deletes messages, when he tells her. She isn't going to change and leave this one open since he knows. This is why I say he confronted too early. He should have kept digging and found everything. Then went trhough them by himself.

I hope I am wrong, but her pattern is to deny then delete.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Tilted 1 said:


> Understand, this though it may cost your marriage.


is it better to live with deception?


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

No, but those whom are here, are truly stressed and need to know the full Gambit of the truth. And must understand in their fragile state of mind.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

Thanks for all your comments. My appoach is more like what SunCMars suggests. To observe and dig, while trying to improve our relationship. Not a lap dog. I have other episodes that I will tell you, which makes the circumstancial count even larger, but i need a confession, or more certain proof to separate. She is not distant now, and we are working on closeness that was missing in 2010-2014. My nagging thought is, was there more then. And could she cheat on me today.
Her mother is an abusive, histrionic narcisist who cheated on her father multiple times. My mother cheated on my father, resulting in divorce.
And in my early 20s when single, I had a workplace fling with a newlywed woman who pursued my like a wolf. I have extensive guilt about that, but i know how easy it is to do.
My wife and swore we never would be like our parents, and i never have, but through the lens of this experience I became suspicious when i discoverd the dating sites and her gym buddy birthday party excluded me and I found the pictures. No smoking gun, but a violation of friends of the marriage boundary settings, in my view
I will keep u informed.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If you have her old phones check to see if you can see where she had been using the google locations feature. There may be other apps that have location features also.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> My wife insists that this circumstantial evidence looks bad when a *paranoid mind links it together.*
> She said you could find this kind of activity by any person.


This is called gaslighting, and it is an old trick right out of the cheater's handbook: deflect and make your spouse think that he is the one who is crazy.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> What do you folks think about her having that unknown to me, extra gmail with her maiden name and not the hyphenated name she had been using for 15 years. She said she used it for school, but I asked why when she already already had first gmail, aol and yahoo and hot mail. She said she can no longer check 2nd gmail acct because the password was forgotten. But I see an extra Googe Voice account using that particular email.
> I could reset the email, but her recovery password is done through her cell text, not email. She would see the change. Who knows, maybe its legit. Just caught up in all the secrecy.


She sounds like a woman who would prefer to be single, but likes all the privileges of marriage when they are convenient for her. She treats you with contempt, withholds sex from you, joins dating sites, excludes you from social activities and parties, goes out on dates with strange men and then spins it to make you look like you are being paranoid. 

Instead of focusing on what she has told you, what do her actions tell you?


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> * New to forum. Hello all, and thanks in advance.* My wife of 26 years and I never ever used dating web sites in our dating days. They did not really exist in 1990-92. Last Fall, however, dating sites, became an issue.
> * When I was typing the word "bad luck" into a Google search on the family computer, a cookie link to the dating site Badoo popped up. At first, i thought it was some sort of web site spam, but I went ahead and clicked on the cookie in Safari.* It went straight to the Badoo dating web site, to* an account profille page, which was created in 2010. The profile info page included my wife's first name, maiden name, initial, age, hometown, password reset options and the enabled option to meet new friends.
> * The Badoo site template was in Spanish language, as my wife is from South America. I converted the site language to the English option, so I could better understand it. All basic info was correct, age, city of location, etc. It. The option To Meet New Friends was activated in the settings. And there was a password that i eventually figured out There were no archived messages or open chats, and the last email message from Badoo was sent in 2012. But I subsequently discovered 10 old mail emails from 2010 to 2012 on Aol that Badoo had sent her from that time period. I clicked the emails and each one opened a message from a potential male suitor in the account page of Badoo.
> * These Badoo emails were from interested men, who made their various romantic pitches, and these responses were relayed by Badoo through email. Interested parties then click on if they want more contact. There was nothing that indicated these messages had been responded to, but the emails were previously opened, based on AOL sent and open time logs for each email.
> ...


Tip of the iceberg as usual. You will only know what you can prove, she will NEVER come clean. Do yourself a favor and don't expect her to.

I'm sorry you wife is dishonest and lying to you.

She may not be active now, but she is a player.

Tell her that based on the evidence of her history, you are going to take a 6 month "hall pass", redeemable in 1 day increments. 

But, but, but the redemption only occurs when she catches you.

Then she will begin to understand, the doubt, pain, and insecurities she has intorduced into your marriage, and relationship.

ETA: you both get STD tested, and you DNA your kids to show her just how much she has damaged your trust.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The biggest red flag for a wife cheating is a change in sexual frequency. Some actually increase frequency especially if it is just for sex. When they cut way back it is almost sex and love. Her attitude would signify a love interest thus the irritability.

It also sounds like she may have been in a threesome with the gym folks.

Definitely need to DNA the kids. 

So sorry you have been placed in this situation.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Definitly poligraph your wife. But there isnt a chanse in hell that she will take the polygraph! Do you know why? Becouse she is lying to you about everything! When you decide that you wont live in denial any more,ask her to take a polygraph. When she start to scream at you that you are crazy and she refuses to do it,then you will have your answer.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Do you know what would I do if I were you? I would tell her: wife,im not a fool,i know that those dating sites were not for texting your boss,you could do that for free with whatsapp,and messages are faster on whatsapp,so,I know that you are lying to me. My trust in you is gone. Only way that this marriage can continue is for you to admit the whole truth,and then to take a polygraph test to prove that you are not lying any more. If you refuse,I have no other choise than to file for divorce. I wont live in lie any more. And then you will see her reaction and know if she refuses that she cheated and still lying to you.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> Do you know what would I do if I were you? I would tell her: wife,im not a fool,i know that those dating sites were not for texting your boss,you could do that for free with whatsapp,and messages are faster on whatsapp,so,I know that you are lying to me. My trust in you is gone. Only way that this marriage can continue is for you to admit the whole truth,and then to take a polygraph test to prove that you are not lying any more. If you refuse,I have no other choise than to file for divorce. I wont live in lie any more. And then you will see her reaction and know if she refuses that she cheated and still lying to you.


You can dig a bit, but if you can't find more evidence this is really your best play, than plant a couple Voice Activated Recorders (VAR's), and catch her admitting it to her friends, or the guys themselves. 


The advice you are getting may see crazy extreme now, but if this plays out as it typically does a year from now you will be giving the same advice to other betrayed and bewildered husbands.

This IS the voices of experience speaking.
Trully.
I really wish you well.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> Thanks for all your comments. My appoach is more like what SunCMars suggests. To observe and dig, while trying to improve our relationship. Not a lap dog. I have other episodes that I will tell you, which makes the circumstancial count even larger, but i need a confession, or more certain proof to separate. She is not distant now, and we are working on closeness that was missing in 2010-2014. My nagging thought is, was there more then. And could she cheat on me today.
> Her mother is an abusive, histrionic narcisist who cheated on her father multiple times. My mother cheated on my father, resulting in divorce.
> And in my early 20s when single, I had a workplace fling with a newlywed woman who pursued my like a wolf. I have extensive guilt about that, but i know how easy it is to do.
> My wife and swore we never would be like our parents, and i never have, but through the lens of this experience I became suspicious when i discoverd the dating sites and her gym buddy birthday party excluded me and I found the pictures. No smoking gun, but a violation of friends of the marriage boundary settings, in my view
> I will keep u informed.


It seems like the people who find their way to TAM these days, know all the terminology, and approach options better then they did when I first joined.

They still struggle to take action, but they know the lingo better.

But then again I was middle aged when I joined and now I'm within walking distance of being a senior citizen. 

No rush I think I'll sit on this bench for a bit.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Did she travel out of town shortly after the emails from the dating web site?

Leave town for a couple of days (with her having plenty of advance notice).
If she's currently cheating, she'll be tempted to meet.
Hire a PI to track who she goes to.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

You can dig and find out all kinds of info as to whether your wife has been cheating. I'd like to suggest that you already know she's cheating. The red flags are just showing you the way. Sorry, that's how I see it. The gut rarely lies!


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

Since discovery about the dating sites and the gym* dinner photos on FB discussed earlier in this thread, I started to pay more attention to W's activities with the opposite sex. Tell me what u think about this one. Wife again says I am overly suspicious about nothing and wants me to read a book about jealousy.

A Potential Workout Partner
But Not A Friend Of The Marriage
* Latest example, in the summer of 2018, my wife starting talking about a male coworker, younger (34), named Arnie (married with a baby). My wife is 57 at the time. For years, wife worked one day a week at this location, while working the other days at another location. In 2018, she became full time at the location that had been one day a week.
* In her 20 years working at this location, she had never invited me to lunch, asked me to visit or introduced me to any coworkers at this one day per week, part time location. (She recently said that her talking about her work day was enough sharing about the job at this location. However, at the other locations, I was occassionally invited to visit, have lunch, etc. and met some of her co workers. Never this one, until I insisted).
* Back to Arnie.*When she started talking about Arnie, who had been there for seven years, wife said he was a coworker who had chronic pain in his knees and was having a hard time getting off pain killers. Over the Summer of 2018, she talked about him quite a bit during our exercise walks, as she reflected about her day. As she talked more and more about him, I became curious about this male work friend; I would ask a few questions during those walks. She told me he had a lot of anxiety about his health, and that my wife and a female coworker would both talk to him about his problems - sometimes together, sometimes one on one. My wife said Arnie* seemed confused, and she once referred to him, as "poor Arnie."
* Over the summer, my wife and I were getting along well, though I had still had lingering doubts about the guy from the gym partner birthday dinner photos. I did not overly obsess about the Arnie relationship, except mentally noting that she talked quite a bit about him.
* When she became full time at this work location in Sept. 2018, my wife told me about a new plan for exercise since she had quit her regular gym. She said she asked Arnie about a personal physical training, and he offered to train her at work after hours, twice a week, for free. Apparently, he is a part-time physical trainer. And since she was no longer going to her local gym (she had quit, she explained, after I had voiced my displeasure about the previously mentioned, gym partners' birthday dinner and ommissions about the FB photos).
* Having already felt a bit curious about her personal talks with this guy whom she insisted was only a work acquaintance (that I had never met), I became more concerned about her planning to gym train at work. I asked her where she was going to train. Her workplace has no gym! Just a hallway, a kitchen and instruction rooms for classroom book training, as it was explained to me at the time.
* I told her that I did not feel comfortable with her training in an environment with no real gym, and after hours which meant she would come home,1.5 to 2 hours later two days a week by Metro.
* After my objection, She decided against the training sessions with Arnie* at work,* but she said she did one session to ascertain her physical conditioning. That was weird, as well, because I read his text to her from the next day, asking if she was sore. She said she was a little sore, but he said. "I'm really sore because I have not done this in a long time." He is an active, part time physical trainer, yet he got sore in one exercise session? Hmm.
* I also read texts to my wife from him on that next Saturday mirning saying, "Hi Doc (wife has a PHD). I was thinking about you this morning. I went to the ****s Spirting Goods and decided to buy you workout gear for your home exercise."* He did buy it because she brought home three pieces of exercise gear a few days later; she said she requested the gear, and said she paid him back.
I then expressed to my opinion about the perceived inappropriateness of this whole exercise thing with Arnie. My wife dismissed my concerns about Arnie. She said I was unduly jealous about their relationship, which she said is just work related. I said it is nit just work related if you ask someone to train you. To me that is kind f personal.
At a minimum, in my opinion, this relationship seemed more than a coworker acquaitance, as she originally called him. He always seems to be coming up in her conversations. And this gym thing was very odd - to me. 
* Because I never met this guy, or any other worker at this job location, *I rerminded my wife that she never has invited me to her work place. She finally invited to me to stop by last Dec. I was introduced to her*coworkers, one by one. When I shook Arnie's hand, his face was beet red; wife said he always has a red face because of a skin condition. How does she know that?
* Another curious thing:* She once asked me whether I wanted a key finder like Arnie had (I am always looking for my keys). What was weird was it looked like she already had been looking on Amazon before she even told me about the potential key finder. It was in her search list. Maybe she bought it for him on Amazon. I never received one.
* Recently, my wife's office coworker, Nancy, who my wife says also talks to Arnie about his problems, called my wife in our car during vacation. Nancy said Arnie had called her and was quite upset over the recent death of his brother (understandable). Arnie had called Nancy, in some dispair, and Nancy decided to call my wife about it, asking my wife what should Andy do since he is so upset about the brothers death
* I am driving so I hear the entire conversation. My wife tells Nancy that she should tell Arnie to talk to his wife about his mental state. After the call, I asked her: are you sure not better friends than what you tell me. Why are they calling you about this if he is just a work acquaiance? Where is his family? Where is his wife in all this?
* To put my mind at ease about this male, non-friend of the marriage who wants to have private, physical training lessons with and regularly confides in my wife, I suggested we meet up with him sometime for happy hour - with him and his wife. It would be a chance for me to get to know him and*other co workers who are not yet friends of the marriage, I said. Their work place is near several cool bars.
* My wife said it was not a good idea to hang out with Arnie and his wife. She said Arnie is much younger than us and would have nothing in common to talk about. They would be bored with us, wife said. I responded that you would work out with him, but not socialize? She did not answer that question. She merely said she set boundaries to not socialize with people from work, except for working lunches. Imo, the work boundary thing might make sense, if she had not planned to be trained by him after hours, in my view. If you workout with a persin, you can certainly have a beer with him.
* However, that younger demographic excuse is totally* flimsy to me; she and I have*lots of young friends. We are good friends with a recently married 25 year old woman and 28 year old hubby that we do regular dinners, happy hours, cookouts, etc. I am 60, wife now 58.
* Recently, she said Arnie* texted her about being upset after my wife had a contentious* work meeting that he had nothing to do with,* but he* saw her outside of the meeting room, and must have been concerned enough about her her meeting angst to text her his concern. They work in the same place, but have different positions.
* She said there is nothin going on, but she admits he is always complementing her. (Last week, she showed me a best wishes card from her training students and co workers; most coworkers praised her work skills, committment, etc. Arnie. wrote on the note " "I think you are amazing!"
** My wife theorizes tha Arnie sees her as kind of a mother figure, and he seems to admire* her vast career path and knowledge, but happens to tell my wife about personal stuff and personally complements her.
I told her I suspect he has feelings for her. In my opinion, at a minimum, I think the relationship crosses a boundary. I told her he might have a crush on you. Do you have any feelings for him. She said no, and said I was crazy. She said she did not think he had any personal interest in her, except for professional admiration, and even if it was true that "he was in love with me, what can I do about it." 
*I told her that the whatever relationship she has with Arnie,* he is not a friend of our marriage. I dont know him. She said that she does not buy into the notion that every opposite sex work acquaintance has to be a friend of the marriage. I told her I believed that opposite sex relationships with individual spouses should be friends of the marriage - if the OSR is more personal. I even showed her Shirley Glass' book Not Just Friends. She said that book does not pertain to her.
As usual, she calls me paranoid.

Chime in


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

Sorry about asterisks. I write in a separate word processing app then paste to TAM. The asterisks are not in the original text.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

niceguy47460 said:


> Use fonelab to recover any deleted text messages on her iPhone. I would even use it on her old phones


This!! For him to do this he will need to root or jailbreak the phone for deleted texts and calls


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

MrHmm said:


> What do you folks think about her having that unknown to me, extra gmail with her maiden name and not the hyphenated name she had been using for 15 years. She said she used it for school, but I asked why when she already already had first gmail, aol and yahoo and hot mail. She said she can no longer check 2nd gmail acct because the password was forgotten. But I see an extra Googe Voice account using that particular email.
> I could reset the email, but her recovery password is done through her cell text, not email. She would see the change. Who knows, maybe its legit. Just caught up in all the secrecy.


 Having unknown accounts IMO is bad. I have several email accounts mainly gmail but my hubsand knows about each one. I use 4 of them 

Google voice account?! Do you know what this is? It launched 10 years ago ( looked it up) its a text and call platform. You get a number. I believe an email is sent when you recieve a missed call/text message. Do a password reset on her email account associated with google voice from her phone.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Is Arnie mentally or physically disabled? Why all the staff sympathy/concern for him?

Why does she think "Not Just Friends" does not apply to her???
BTW: the book isn't just about 'her' it's about how her behavior is perceived by her spouse.
Why should she not care that her spouse feels the OM is grooming his wife.

Does she ever have a 'working lunch' or coffee with Arnie - or any other alone time?

I agree that Arnie has a crush on your wife (and since your wife is human it's likely that she enjoys the attention from a younger man).

It doesn't matter if she reciprocates his feelings at this time or finds him attractive at this time.

Every spouse has a right to feel safe (from infidelity) and Arnie's interest in and focus on your wife (along with her tolerance/encouragement) is inappropriate because it makes you feel unsafe.

What can she do??? 

First you should regularly attend lunch with your wife (it sends a message) starting with once a week ....and see if he backs off. 
Next time you meet Arnie smile and tell him: I hear you think my wife is amazing .... so do I. (it sends him a message that everything he says to your wife is passed onto you and that he does not have a special/private relationship with your wife) 

Second, your wife should discourage Arnie. At a minimum she can distance herself and stop responding to his texts and no one on one contact. 
She can inform Arnie that she is uncomfortable with the level of personal vs professional attention he is directing towards her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Nothing to see here. Move along...


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Your W at the very least is in a EA.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

MrHmm said:


> . She said that book does not pertain to her.
> As usual, she calls me paranoid.
> 
> Chime in


Ok Bull****, she's wanting him to slam her but l think it already happened. By what you write she's defending him and not you. He feeds her kibble's and she loves it. Throw the gauntlet down man! No more gym with this dude. And not wanting to meet up with tham as a couple, flimsy you say? 

It's crap talk , your being played and your the fool here. You need to move on this. Of leaving read " Not Just Friends " she's way past the mark and your too passive. Grab your balls and do what needs to be done.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

It's a common tactic, Gaslighting you trying to make you feel as your nuts and at 57 he's just what the Dr ordered. In her mind.

Added: it's time to rock her world!


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

OK, so her entire attitude and demeanor shrieks that she is at least on the precipice of an affair. You will not get anything out of her on a go forward basis because she is in full gaslight mode. I recommend that you say to her that you have scheduled a polygraph. Watch carefully as she will go ballistic, tell you you are delusional. Tell her the future of your marriage is contingent on her complying with your wishes. I usually tell my clients to add the following: If you refuse this, then I will take it as an admission of your guilt. I will then proceed to a divorce filing, and you will have forced my hand.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

And you still dont get it,you still dont see that your wife is lying to you? Can you oleace tell us why in hell dont you ask her to take a polygraph? Time is passing and you still didnt do it? Why? You say that you want the truth,so why dont you tell her to take a polygraph??? Why?


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Have you voiced your concerns to Arnie's wife? Might be interesting to see if she has noticed any suspicious activity. Turning on a light makes the cockroaches scurry for cover.

"Hey Mrs. Arnie, My wife is a co-worker of your husband. They seem to be getting very close. Do I have any reason to be worried?

Sincerely,

MrHmm"


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrHmm said:


> Since discovery about the dating sites and the gym* dinner photos on FB discussed earlier in this thread, I started to pay more attention to W's activities with the opposite sex. Tell me what u think about this one. Wife again says I am overly suspicious about nothing and wants me to read a book about jealousy.
> 
> A Potential Workout Partner
> But Not A Friend Of The Marriage
> ...


I haven’t read it yet, Skimmed a bit, but if you basically write an essay your marriage is either nearly or completely gone.

Go see a lawyer and quit catering to her whims.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

So, HOW is a guy who had chronic pain in his knees in ANY WAY able to be a personal trainer? I call BS on that one.
BS #2: "She merely said she set boundaries to not socialize with people from work, except for working lunches" YET she has personal (very) conversations with this guy that have NOTHING to do with work, wants to stay after hours to "train" with him? 
BS #3: "any personal interest in her, except for professional admiration, and even if it was true that "he was in love with me, what can I do about it."" WHAT CAN SHE DO ABOUT IT? HOW about STOP talking to him about ANYTHING not to do with work? How about NOT having out-of-bounds discussions with the guy.

I think you SHOULD contact his wife (and DO NOT tell her/him that you are going to do it). IF you do this though, you will probably need more proof to show the wife -- can you get screen shots of her texts with him? Take a picture of that card and show his wife that Arnie wrote "I think you are amazing" -- I bet she wouldn't be happy with that in conjunction with other stuff they are talking about. I bet his wife doesn't know he offered to be her personal trainer.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Please read and follow the advice of Taxman!

Good luck, and do what you know you must do.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

Talk to his wife ASAP!!! And don’t tell your wife you are planning on tss as liking to her


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Nothing to see here. Move along...


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Everything you wrote screams affair- multiple affairs

Personal trainer. Thought his kness hurt? Not the kind of personal trainer in a gym setting.

Your wife said no social settings with coworkers - BUT yet she met a male coworker to be her personal trainer. That doesn't make sense, does it? 

Think about it? Google voice account, why would a married woman need that along with dating sites 2 +2=4 , not 5. Open your eyes and do some digging,.spying, whatever. 

Your wife is playing you...


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

First thing's first - you need to shut up any time she hands you evidence of her cheating on a silver platter. Every time you see or hear something even a little bit questionable, you're putting her on edge and causing her to take this further underground. You need to give her enough rope to hang herself with. So let her talk about Arnie all she wants and give her neutral responses. Pretend like it doesn't really bother you and quietly take notes about it. She's clearly got a lot more going on with him than she is telling you. And all of her responses in front of him and other coworkers sound like rehearsed go-to answers to make it look to you like nothing's happening. There's no way in hell she simultaneously believes in not socializing with coworkers outside of work and tells Arnie to talk to his wife about his personal issues but also has a "personal training" session with him after hours. That is beyond inappropriate and so much worse than a group dinner or comforting a grieving coworker. If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.

Get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and put it in her car or in another place where you think she is taking phone calls. Consider hiring a PI to dig deeper into her electronics. They will know all sorts of tips and tricks to find deleted or hidden communications. 

In the extremely unlikely scenario that you don't find incriminating evidence of one or more affairs, why would you stay with a wife who clearly doesn't love and respect you the way that she should? Who puts others before you and doesn't even want you around on her birthday so that she can flirt and play footsie with a "stranger"? Who is TO THIS DAY doing sketchy things with a coworker - at minimum, relying on him way too much and not shutting down clear flirtation and at max having a full blown affair. Even if all you have is a gut reaction to the mountain of evidence you have of her multiple indiscretions, why stay with someone like her? How could you keep loving her after all of the lies, gaslighting, and blatant disrespect? This alone is more than enough reason to end this marriage and find someone who wants to be with you.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

How is he a private trainer if he has the knees of a 80 year old


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

MrHmm, the others have suggested you get all the info before you confront her. That's right! She either is now or has been cheating. Faithful wives do not go out of their ways to go the the lengths she has. Get your ducks in a row and then lower the boom.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

nekonamida said:


> *First thing's first - you need to shut up any time she hands you evidence of her cheating on a silver platter. Every time you see or hear something even a little bit questionable, you're putting her on edge and causing her to take this further underground. You need to give her enough rope to hang herself with. So let her talk about Arnie all she wants and give her neutral responses. Pretend like it doesn't really bother you and quietly take notes about it. *She's clearly got a lot more going on with him than she is telling you. And all of her responses in front of him and other coworkers sound like rehearsed go-to answers to make it look to you like nothing's happening. There's no way in hell she simultaneously believes in not socializing with coworkers outside of work and tells Arnie to talk to his wife about his personal issues but also has a "personal training" session with him after hours. That is beyond inappropriate and so much worse than a group dinner or comforting a grieving coworker. If it doesn't make sense, it isn't true.
> 
> Get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and put it in her car or in another place where you think she is taking phone calls. Consider hiring a PI to dig deeper into her electronics. They will know all sorts of tips and tricks to find deleted or hidden communications.
> 
> In the extremely unlikely scenario that you don't find incriminating evidence of one or more affairs, why would you stay with a wife who clearly doesn't love and respect you the way that she should? Who puts others before you and doesn't even want you around on her birthday so that she can flirt and play footsie with a "stranger"? Who is TO THIS DAY doing sketchy things with a coworker - at minimum, relying on him way too much and not shutting down clear flirtation and at max having a full blown affair. Even if all you have is a gut reaction to the mountain of evidence you have of her multiple indiscretions, why stay with someone like her? How could you keep loving her after all of the lies, gaslighting, and blatant disrespect? This alone is more than enough reason to end this marriage and find someone who wants to be with you.


THIS, all of this, especially the bolded part. Stop tipping your hand. Hire a PI to follow her and I think you will have your answer almost immediately. 

Thing is though, as Neko states here, even without hard evidence in hand, you have more than enough grounds to get rid of her. The blatant disrespect you are being shown is staggering.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

AB hale wrote, *How is he a private trainer if he has the knees of a 80 year old*

Because this is one of the seduction types OM use, it the sympathy route, often combined with heroic stories about themselves, "oh yea I have the knees of an 80 year old, but I forced myself to hike 10 miles with my sons boy scout troop." 

Sadly women often believe this junk rather than laughing at it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Can you afford a private investigator?

There are just to many different shady actions by your wife. 

Have the old phone looked at by a professional. 

Your wife still doesn’t drive? Put a VAR in your house for when you are not there. The leave at times it would be convenient for her to make calls. 

How is your sex life now and in the last few years?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

She follows the cheater's script when she shuts you up by calling you paranoid and jealous.

The next time she does this, tell her that she should be ashamed of herself for the way she gaslights you.

She lies and gaslights. This keeps you enough off balance to doubt what is right in front of you.

All of this stinks. None of her explanations pass the most basic of smell tests. Please stop believing her ridiculous stories.

Arnie may well be just a young guy who has no interest in a woman her age, but she sure as hell has enough interest in him to gaslight you about him.

Take a breather and mentally regroup. Put together a clear plan to help you clarify her behavior and understand how you should respond. (I think I would 180, talk to a lawyer, and set up a polygraph. You, however, don't sound like you are ready to be 'willing to lose the marriage in order to save it.')


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

Hi, purveyors of infinite wisdom about all things Infidelitious!
I have not written in a while, but wanted to give you an update on me and the Mrs. I am following several posters’ advice and looking into an app that can restore deleted message and photos from her old phone from the 2012 to 2014 period. I have been running VAR in her car to hear if she has current phone conversations with anyone else, such as Arnie. So far, just my phone calls to and from me and her mother. She knows I look at the phone bills. I don't think she would call on regular line. Maybe Google Voice, Messenger or Hangouts, where the phone call is routed through data. But I never have heard any calls from the car. Remember she knows I am suspect. Likely she uses texts for communications. Arnie texts to her from work are now deleted. She tells me sometimes he texts her (she mentioned a text where he complemented her, a text about concern he had about her being upset after her work meeting (he asked me how I was doing, she said). But those texts are no longer in her phone.
Wife maintains that the “married and on a dating site scenario” discovery is still nothing since she thought Badoo was a good way to text, for free, her best friend in Peru, back in 2010. And, she maintains there is no proof of any contact from the sites. She still insists that she did not remember activating the account. With regard to the tagged.com dating account, I am going to contact old boss Linda, whom W said asked her to join tagged, and ask her why she invited my wife to communicate via a dating site. I am just going to ask her point blank. I don't care if she tells my wife. Will she lie, probably.
As for the aforementioned Arnie from work, my wife still says there is nothing between the two of them and they are not even friends, just work acquaintances. However, she is still very reluctant to have me come around to work for lunch or coffee, based on her schedule. She recently invited me to come for a faux job interview for some of her students at her workplace, but she did not stay, and Arnie was not there. However, when i mentioned the idea again that we should have a holiday happy hour with her work friends including Arnie (and, again, that I could get to know them), she said that she does not want me to come to her job because “I am too suspicious.” She said I should stay away, unless invited, until “we fix your trust problem.”
I said her keeping me away from work is part of the trust problem. After all, she has worked there for 19 years (part-time for 18), but never invited me there for lunch or anything until I insisted last year. I still remember Arnie turning two shades of red when I shook his hand at that first greet and meet
And of course, Arnie is still an issue because her mentioning him so much during the summer of 2018, texts that went beyond work, several complement texts and the texts of concern about my wife’s mood via text, and her talking to him about his physical problems. And of course, her plan to have him train her at the workplace building that has no gym twice a week, after work — for free.
Last but least, here is a tidbit I forgot to mention in earlier posts. In 2012, during our lack of intimacy (and her intense, unrelenting criticism of my contribution to housework, raising our son, etc), I had a heart to heart discussion with W about the nearly zero sex life we were having at the time. She told me that with her busy work schedule, raising an ADHD kid, going to doctorate school and me not helping enough around the house (partially true), she did not feel like having sex. And she said menopause was also grinding down her libido, and I was pressuring her too much. This was like the second time, in the two years of a slowing romance mode that I had ever asked what’s up with our dwindling sex life. She responded that “if you need to have sex, I give you permission to go out and have sex with someone else.”
I said WHAT!!!!! Why would i do that when I would rather have sex and am in love with my wife. She said I was putting to much pressure on her, and she did not think I was committed to the marriage because I would not move closer to her job and I liked having separate checking accounts (because my home based job needed one). Those things were true, but I did not feel that her “get sex elsewhere” encouragement was appropriate answer to the other marital issues.
Based on her encouraging me to seek sex elsewhere, I remember asking her “are you having an affair.” First time that I entertained the notion. She denied it and said I needed help. She said I was just feeling bad about myself and the lack of sex was my fault. I was not initiating romance, but only asking for sex, she emphasized. Though I was not as romantic as she would have liked, I suppose, I never just ask for selfish sex. it was always initiated by me with the foreplay, and I very much connect through mutual sex. That is the way she always wanted it. She would say, you are the initiator. But in that 2010-2014 time period, she mostly rebuffed the initiations. She once pushed me away, when I was trying to snuggle up for romance, and said “this side of the bed is mine and that side is yours.”
After the “you can have sex with someone else conversation,” she insisted that I seek a therapist to resolve childhood (mommy) issues and then I could be happier about our marriage, as it is. That is usually her antidote to issue resolution. Send me to the shrink.
In summary, dear friends, even with all this circumstantial evidence and strong gut/instinct that she is not telling the whole story about what she did the last ten years or so, I will not blow up the marriage without solid proof. Although we are up and down, I maintain a patience and have ramped up my private, investigatory pursuits. 
She has dug her “this my truth” trench and insists the circumstantial evidence episodes that I question did happen, but my interpretations are not correct. But she said she cannot prove her story, and I just have to trust and believe her. She said she pledged fidelity in 1992 and I never have cheated, She said there has never been any other man but me. My gut refuses to acquiesce to her story only. Too many funny angles to her behavior.
But I know, and my therapist concurs, (yes, I did see one in 2018) that affairs are hardly ever admitted, unless there is solid proof. Therapist believed early on that my wife was not having an affair with the guy from the gym (that is all I had), but the therapist found it odd that W did not know the divorced gym guy’s name or that she did not tell me about the FB photos of him and her. Therapist believed W may have had a harmless crush on gym guy, but nothing further, she believed at the time. But after I found the dating site accounts, the therapist could could no longer say, with certainty, there was not infidelity. She said wife’s omissions are worrisome and should be explored.
Until next time, MrHmm...


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

She's playing you. Your scrambling, she's denying. She's a step ahead and with a smirk on her face, saying if you're going to accuse me, don't come weak. Come strong or else, I'll have your head spinning with lies, and confidence that will leave questioning your own sanity. You will have to be smarter than she is. Here's how you do it imo.

1) Stop accusing and sharing what you know until you are ready. Her gas lighting and deflective skills have you baffled and losing the battle of wits. Right now, you're the bull and she's the matador, teasing, playing and in control while playing to the crowd. For starters....

2) Hire a techie to help with the forensic surveillance, etc. 

3) Feign satisfaction with everything, when in fact you're disbelieving everything and doubling down on all surveillance activity. 

4) Be aware of everything and pretend you're not aware of anything

5) Be patient for the sole purpose of allowing her to think you're doubting yourself and believing her, when in fact it's the exact opposite. 

6) Never, ever let on to what you already know. Same with your sources.

Skilled cheaters are as smooth as con men. They're stoic, with poker faces that can lie while looking you dead in your eyes. Their ability to lie, deceive, trick, deflect and communicate in ways that weakens your will and question your intellect and sanity. 

Time to step back and implement a new winning game plan. Your opponent (wife) is winning by 10 points at the end of the 2nd quarter. Time to convene with your staff (TAM members and possibly your therapists depending how sharp he/she is with respect to dealing with a lying cheater) and make adjustments to take control and win.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Take her to take a polygraph test. Then you will know the truth. But,if my wife said yhose things that yours said to you, I would divorce her even without infidelity.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Your W sounds like a verbal bully. She turns everything back on you. With people like this you need to stay calm and not be reactive. Stay with the rational argument. When she deflects, you tell her that that's not what 'we're' talking about. Refuse to be put on the defensive.

If you have trust issues, she caused them. They are not your problem. Her behavior that caused all this is the problem. Period. Don't get into the conversational weeds about this.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I say flip the script and see how she likes it. Go to a strip club with an old friend and come home late. When she askes about the $20 receipts she found in your pockets the next day (for the lap dances), tell her that your buddy just wanted to go there for the food, and the receipts are for the buffet. And it's OK because you didn't look at any of the naked women. 

When she says your story is rediculous and she doesn't believe you, say you feel that same way about her.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

You might also want to show up at her workplace without notice, and tell ****head to stay away from your W. Then tell his W the same thing.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

colingrant said:


> She's playing you. Your scrambling, she's denying. She's a step ahead and with a smirk on her face, saying if you're going to accuse me, don't come weak. Come strong or else, I'll have your head spinning with lies, and confidence that will leave questioning your own sanity. You will have to be smarter than she is. Here's how you do it imo.
> 
> 1) Stop accusing and sharing what you know until you are ready. Her gas lighting and deflective skills have you baffled and losing the battle of wits. Right now, you're the bull and she's the matador, teasing, playing and in control while playing to the crowd. For starters....
> 
> ...


MrHmmm, the above is 100% exactly correct. It is what everyone on this thread has been trying to say in bits and pieces. ColinGrant put it together for you, so pay heed!

Old infidelity is extremely difficult to prove. I believe you have found enough evidence to be certain she did something out-of-bounds. Was she screwing half the men in town? Was she engaged in an emotional affair? Was she engaged in online chatting with men but not meeting them in person? All of those things are infidelity.

What is *your* line in the sand? You need to have a good idea because otherwise you will keep on looking for more and more evidence even when you find enough to know she broke her vows. Is it actual sex with someone else? Is it going on dates but no sex? Is it professing love for someone else, whether or not there was sex?

My best intuition is the same as your shrink regarding Arnie. It is entirely possible there are crushes going on, but so far no specific evidence of a sexual affair. But, again, what is your line in the sand? I believe your wife at the very least has been enjoying the attentions of an attractive younger man. Possibly she has been hoping to convert it into a sexual affair. But it is also possible they have been intermittent sexual partners for a while. Keep up the silent watch as this is your best bet on discovering an affair if it is happening.

Unless you stumble upon old evidence in her electronics, there is little to no chance of you ever getting facts to prove or disprove an affair from long ago. But you are now in unfortunate territory where you know in your gut something bad happened but don't know how bad it was or how long it went on. At some point you must accept the limits of what data you have and then decide your path from there.

Your W's present day behavior is pretty bad. Honestly I would be tempted to leave her just for that. Your psychologist is a big asset to you, btw, in getting a good perspective on your W's comments and behaviors.

Once trust is lost it is nearly impossible to regain. Your W will have to be a central player if it is going to happen. So far she is reacting like a cheater rather than like a concerned spouse who is willing to take on some difficult work to help her partner in distress.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Two things: First you will show up at her workplace uninvited at lunch and take her out. You will get a whirlwind of info if you just randomly arrive. Keep your cell phone in your shirt pocket to record reactions. Second: let her know in no uncertain terms that a polygraph will go a long way to quell your suspicions. If she refuses, tell her that it is her answer, and that since she refused, you cannot come to any other conclusion that she cheated on you, and you will be reporting her to HR at her company. Let her know that even the accusation will end her career. You are being gaslit, and the best defense is a good offense. I have seen wayward spouses bully their betrayed into silence. I have seen the bullied turn. I have seen a wayward who maintained her innocence for nearly two decades have a nervous breakdown when she was exposed. A world of lies that she built for 20 years came crashing down around her. It left her without anyone. Her ex husband feels not one iota of sympathy. She spent 20 years tearing him down over his suspicions, making him feel as if he was losing his mind. Then, a small happenstance in her AP's life brought the entire truth into the light. In her 60's, she found herself abandoned by her husband and children. She bitterly regrets lying for such an extended period as it made reconciliation and recovery near impossible. Her husband who has remained my client feels as if a weight was lifted. He lost a wife and gained his sanity. He dates now. His children encourage him. His ex is now a bitter lonely woman with virtually no life. She works and goes to a little apartment (we got a very favorable settlement out of her as she was loathe to have more of her life exposed)


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

So...her treating you like complete garbage is no cause for considering ending the marriage.

Bovine excrement.

'No solid proof' is nothing more than an excuse for your inaction.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Thor said:


> Once trust is lost it is nearly impossible to regain. Your W will have to be a central player if it is going to happen. So far she is reacting like a cheater rather than like a concerned spouse who is willing to take on some difficult work to help her partner in distress.


THIS ^^^^^

Your wife is busy trying to make you feel bad about yourself rather than owning up to her obviously suspicious and inappropriate behavior. If she were on the up and up, she'd be helping to alleviate your distress, but she is showing no concern whatsoever for you. Affairs or no affairs, this is not a happy marriage where two people have each other's backs. This is your wife mistreating you by making this look like you are the one with a problem, rather than her.

Her behavior is suspicious at best and adulterous at worst. Just because you don't know for sure what happened, doesn't mean the things are you are seeing are okay if she wasn't cheating on you. She has and is behaving badly and rather than showing remorse and trying to rebuild lost trust, she has turned it all back on you and basically called you crazy. That is not the behavior of a loving, committed wife.


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## moulinyx (May 30, 2019)

This whole story is nuts! It is obvious she has at minimum emotionally stepped out of the marriage with the dating sites and hiding messages. However, for the love of god do not force a polygraph test or a divorce....she will lose her mind. If my husband was suspicious of me and tried to give me an ultimatum like that, I would NOT respond well.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Just cut to the chase and dump her quick. You can't win this.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

OP you are the perfect example of a BH what I just wrote on Numb26 Thread. You need to grow some balls start acting like a man. I would never let a woman to talk to me like that ever.! If she did she would never sit her two eyes on me again. This is something you need to do with totally disrespectful WW.!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Has your sex life ever returned to normal? If so when?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MrHmm, you have found the smoking gun(s), but not the smoking fun.

Circumstantial evidence rarely convicts, but often predicts....the truth behind the evidence.

It very well could be that she is a 'only' this fisher woman, she dangles her toes in hormone filled waters.

When the men bite, she jerks her toes from their warm mouths.

There is a name for this behavior, one that the flame filter smokes away.

The odds are that she has cheated. The odds cannot convict, unless paid-out playdirt is uncovered.

@Cynthia and @alte Dame have it correct. She is abusive and not a worthy partner.

Let her go, in her old age. 
For being cold, showing disdain and for being nasty.

After divorce will be the ultimate test-

If she repeatedly dates, hooks up and/or gets married, this is the real proof of her sexual condition.

I suspect, she is no firecracker, and not a cherry bomb. 

I suspect she possesses some remaining lady fingers ready to light.

Yeah, I think menopause was at fault all those years ago, and yes she likely tried to relight her own fuse by going on dating sites.
She went through the 'what if' period.

She is no sex pistol, she can only fire cold 'blank' stares. 
She might have fantasies about being one.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Is she still cheating at 58+ ?

The odds are, not likely.

The age a woman is most likely to cheat is at 45, and is lower than a man's peak age, which is at age 55.

A peek gives up a peak.

Peek's miss hidden data bulges, peaks have neighboring slopes, some steep, some gradual, some bare boob pics.



The Typist I-


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

She definitely has no respect for you. 

Do you think your wife is ashamed of you? Is that the reason she wants you hidden away from her coworkers and her work life.


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## MrHmm (Jul 1, 2019)

Hi folks,
Here is the latest. My wife is still very hesitant about inviting me to lunch at her work place. She says that my suspicions and uncertainty about fidelity make her uneasy about her inviting me to lunch.
I talked her into it on Tuesday. I told her that it helps me restore trust and it is what couples do. We had a nice time at a local soup place, no discussion of ongoing issues. 
Latter in the day, she reitterated that she would not likely have me to lunch again because of my state of mind (my suspicions of Arnie, etc.) She said work is refuge from the stress of that we are going through, and she does not want me to come to her workplace in the near future.
I sent her a link from the nurturing marriage web site that spouse workday lunches are good for the marriage.
Here is her text:

"I am not disagreeing with the idea, but now in the context of where we are, what you think about me or what you don't know. It does not feel right to me. Maybe when I feel more at ease it will be a wonderful idea. That's all I am saying. Peace be with you."

In my opinion, even if we have issues, the lunch for a couple should be. A good thing. I would not never tell my wife to stay away if she wanted to have lunch. Even if we r having an argument, or other issue.
Am i wrong?


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

MrHmm said:


> Hi folks,
> Here is the latest. My wife is still very hesitant about inviting me to lunch at her work place. She says that my suspicions and uncertainty about fidelity make her uneasy about her inviting me to lunch.
> I talked her into it on Tuesday. I told her that it helps me restore trust and it is what couples do. We had a nice time at a local soup place, no discussion of ongoing issues.
> Latter in the day, she reitterated that she would not likely have me to lunch again because of my state of mind (my suspicions of Arnie, etc.) She said work is refuge from the stress of that we are going through, and she does not want me to come to her workplace in the near future.
> ...


Gently, I don't know what any of us can do to help you. Most, me included think she is actively cheating on you. Most of the people here that are experts in spotting infidelity and abuse and what not. 

You refuse to act on any advice we give. 

She send you a basic FO text worded nicely and you still cannot see what she is saying... 

I am not into you, I really don't like you much if at all, I am not sexually attracted to you, I don't want you bothering me, and on and on... 

Honestly, why are you still in this marriage??? WHY? 

Do you have so little self respect that you have no choice but to allow yourself to be treated this way... 

Is there anything anyone can say to wake you up?????


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

Hire a P.I.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

What your wife is doing is called DARVO.
Deny
Accuse
Reverse Victim and Offender

She is denying her bad behavior and accusing you of being the one with the problem, then she turns it around so that you are the one who is mistreating her. This is classic cheater behavior. I'm not saying that I'm sure your wife is cheating on you, but it sure looks like it. She is not interested in resolving the problem. She puts it all off on you. 

If my husband didn't want to have lunch with me and didn't want me to show my face at his place of business, I would be extremely suspicious and my behavior towards him would change.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

She's working you. You're permitting it. It never ends well when this happens.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

her OM is probably a co-worker, has told people at work that you are separated,
abusive, and other lies. So if you show at work it will everyone there wonder why
you showed up.

also her lunch time is her and OM's fun time.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

BluesPower said:


> She send you a basic FO text worded nicely and you still cannot see what she is saying...


Well, is _was_ worded nicely.


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## Tdbo (Sep 8, 2019)

MrHmm said:


> Hi folks,
> Here is the latest. My wife is still very hesitant about inviting me to lunch at her work place. She says that my suspicions and uncertainty about fidelity make her uneasy about her inviting me to lunch.
> I talked her into it on Tuesday. I told her that it helps me restore trust and it is what couples do. We had a nice time at a local soup place, no discussion of ongoing issues.
> Latter in the day, she reitterated that she would not likely have me to lunch again because of my state of mind (my suspicions of Arnie, etc.) She said work is refuge from the stress of that we are going through, and she does not want me to come to her workplace in the near future.
> ...


As has already been accurately pointed out to you, your wife has sent you a very condescending, disrespectful FO text.

Time for you to launch your own FO initiative, making sure that your Karma annihilates her dogma.

1. Get a PI, or do your own "Homework." Document everything. She seems arrogant. Arrogance generally = sloppy.
2. Lawyer up. Get your ducks lined up, take care of business.
3. Have her served at work. Cold. Hard. Relentless. Ruthlessly. Unleash your inner SOB. Her behavior deserves nothing less.

At that point, you should know what you have. Focus on what she does more than what she says. If she is not having an affair (highly unlikely,) and she wants the marriage, she should be willing to move heaven and earth to prove it. If she tries to pacify you, as recommended in the Cheaters Handbook, you know where you stand. If she truly wants to be married to you, make her move heaven and earth to prove it to you. If she is stepping out and wants R, make her work hard for it and prove her legitimacy in the endeavor.

Shock and awe is the only path for you in this circumstance. Best of luck.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Tdbo said:


> As has already been accurately pointed out to you, your wife has sent you a very condescending, disrespectful FO text.
> 
> Time for you to launch your own FO initiative, making sure that your Karma annihilates her dogma.
> 
> ...


While I don't disagree with you... OP STILL does not feel that way. 

He thinks everything is going to work out in the long run. I feel so bad for him, his pain will be magnified x 10000 when he actually finds out the truth.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

MrHmm said:


> Hi folks,
> Here is the latest. My wife is still very hesitant about inviting me to lunch at her work place. She says that my suspicions and uncertainty about fidelity make her uneasy about her inviting me to lunch.
> I talked her into it on Tuesday. I told her that it helps me restore trust and it is what couples do. We had a nice time at a local soup place, no discussion of ongoing issues.
> Latter in the day, she reitterated that she would not likely have me to lunch again because of my state of mind (my suspicions of Arnie, etc.) She said work is refuge from the stress of that we are going through, and she does not want me to come to her workplace in the near future.
> ...


Why should she do anything different knowing you have no bite. 

You have done this to yourself. All of the years of you putting up with her BS has taught her that you will wine about it for a little bit then tuck tail and stay in your place. She is cheating and you can’t or won’t grow a set to do anything about it. 

Hire a PI to watch her for a week or two. See why she doesn’t want you at her place of work. If you don’t want a PI do it yourself. See if she leaves work with anyone. 

If nothing else, shut down on her completely. Shop any and all interaction. If she says anything about it tell her that you are tired of her bs. That you don’t want to make her home a place she doesn’t want to be so you decide to absent yourself from her. Go out and do something when she gets home. Pick up a hobby or get back onto one you did before marriage. Go hang out with friends. Go watch a game at a sports bar. Just do something 4 to 5 times a week. 

When she starts complaining about it tell her that you are ready to work on the marriage when she finally gets serious about fixing it. That you will not be the only one that works on fixing it like before. 

She has lost all respect for you and will never respect you until you start respecting yourself. 

Your marriage is of your making, fix it, move on or live with what you created. 

Use that spin that God gave you and stand up for yourself.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

time to put on your big boy pants and basically tell her that you will either make the rules or you will file for divorce, stop taking her crap...she is gas-lighting you and you are just being a doormat.

come to think of it...tell her this...okay you will not meet her for lunch but she will have to take a polygraph to prove she has not cheated.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

WOW!!!!

She is unbelievable!!!!!!

She should be begging you to stop by her work any and every day!!!!

You need to polygraph her ASAP!!!!

I’m thinking that simply telling her that you have scheduled a polygraph for her, you will get all the information you need by the reaction on her face!!

I’m sorry, but I think you know the truth, you are just hoping for something different.

Good luck, and do whatever you need to do to become happy and safe again


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

I don’t understand you.! What I do know in life when you’re being wrong completely disrespected and gaslighted you to death) 
nobody Is going to stick up for you. Buddy you come off extremely pathetic. It’s almost too much I can not continue to reading this thread. It is just too much of no action taken by you. It has me screaming at my phone. On some kind of weird level I was hoping that this is a troll and there’s no truth to this story. But unfortunately I know it’s true and that is what makes me cringe. That last text that she sent you wasn’t enough. WOW how do you look yourself in the mirror. If you don’t Respect for self how was your son supposed to.? and you’re teaching him that women can walk all over treat you with total disrespect, unfortunately he is going to have similar issues in his adult life because his father was a horrible example of defending himself against this disrespectful tramp of a woman your wife is.


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi OP. Sounds like your wife really likes having her secrets from you. All that 2012 behaviour when she was finding fault with you and the dating profiles may well have been an affair.

Reading your thread, I may have missed where you shared the state of your marriage right now... things like is she kind to you, do you feel loved, do you still have intimacy problems?

Just from your posts it sounds like you're chasing after her, always a couple of steps behind. She's masterfully and almost effortlessly keeping you at bay, leading a secret life of some kind. Maybe not even anything very dire, but she likes and needs a secret life away from home. 

1. Hire a PI. That should give you some insight in to what the **** is going on, you might be chasing your tail a long time sleuthing this out on your own.

2. You've been chasing her, maybe it's time she chased you? Just stop trying to get invited for lunch, that's getting kind of pathetic (and yes that's very cold of your wife). I think you need to develop a life of your own. You need some mysteries about you, make her wonder. Let the PI do his work, and be selfish spending your time on things that interest you away from your wife. 

You haven't written a lot about the state of your marriage other than secretive behaviour of your wife. But from the little you've written it sounds like you have an odd dynamic, maybe a lopsided marriage tilted in her favour.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The risk reward of continuing to have this person as your spouse is a lot like having a Grizzly Bear as a Pet. There are people who want to do that, but if you do you're going to spend your whole time working hard so they don't eat you. You are probably going to get bit once or twice, you may not die but you could up end in the hospital. 

Thing is that is up to you if you want a life like that, always trying to avoided being bit for the privilege of saying you have a Grizzly as your pet. Most won't understand it when there are perfectly good Dogs out there who can be loyal and you can run and play with and never fear of losing an arm or a leg, OR YOUR HEAD. 

I feel this is really all the advice that can be given as you are determined to continue to allow yourself to stay in harms way even with the preponderance of evidence that you are not safe.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> WOW!!!!
> 
> She is unbelievable!!!!!!
> 
> ...


I actually have to disagree with this post K. 

He does not need a poly, he needs a lawyer and file for divorce, years ago...


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Dude what do you want is to say to you? Why are you here? We are all telling you what you should do in your situation and you dont listen and you do nothing. So what do you want from us? If you won't help your self then there is no point in discusing things anymore. When you grow a pair and decide to be a man,then we can help you. For now this is all in vain.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

MrHmm said:


> Here is her text:
> 
> "I am not disagreeing with the idea, but now in the context of where we are, what you think about me or what you don't know. It does not feel right to me. Maybe when I feel more at ease it will be a wonderful idea. That's all I am saying.* Peace be with you."*


"Peace be with you"? Who are you? One of her flock? One of Yoda's pupils? This woman has a PhD? Who says that to a spouse? Really, if this all is real, you have to start detaching from this lunacy.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

Somebody is joking with us. This cant be trutfull,nobody is that passive. I refuse to believe that this is truth.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

MrHmm said:


> Hi folks,
> Here is the latest. My wife is still very hesitant about inviting me to lunch at her work place. She says that my suspicions and uncertainty about fidelity make her uneasy about her inviting me to lunch.
> I talked her into it on Tuesday. I told her that it helps me restore trust and it is what couples do. We had a nice time at a local soup place, no discussion of ongoing issues.
> Latter in the day, she reitterated that she would not likely have me to lunch again because of my state of mind (my suspicions of Arnie, etc.) She said work is refuge from the stress of that we are going through, and she does not want me to come to her workplace in the near future.
> ...


Haven’t read all of the responses so, here is mine. Why are you asking and giving her this much control?

When I suspected something, I showed up at my ex-fiancé’s apartment. She wasn’t there and I waited. She showed up from a double date. Caught her this way twice and that’s the main reason she is my ex. I didn’t inform, discuss or give her any power over my own happiness.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

The OP will do something when he gets sick and tired of being......sick and tired


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> Somebody is joking with us. This cant be trutfull,nobody is that passive. I refuse to believe that this is truth.


There are more than a few threads that make me feel that way.



Chuck71 said:


> The OP will do something when he gets sick and tired of being......sick and tired


... or he won't and just continue to be a doormat of misery.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

MrHmm ....how did it go over the holidays? Did your wife attend any holiday celebrations without you?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

The best wake up call you can give your wife is by having her served divorce papers at work. 

You can always stop the divorce it she turns a 180 with your marriage. I believe she will give you the divorce with out a fight.


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