# nude outside with kids, legal!



## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

Called the cops to ask about what my WW is doing and they said she is not breaking any laws! He did agree it is weird though and suggested I call CPS. Called CPS and they would take a report and follow up but I wasn't ready to turn her in yet. Also they said it would have to pose a mental problem for the kids which I don't think it really is.

I don't know what to think.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Whole families of nudist are naked around their kids all the time. It's not my cup of tea but unless there's some evidence of doing so for the purpose of sexual gratification, there's no criminal case. Social Services might want to get into her shorts (my bad, she's not wearing any).


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> Called the cops to ask about what my WW is doing and they said she is not breaking any laws! He did agree it is weird though and suggested I call CPS. Called CPS and they would take a report and follow up but I wasn't ready to turn her in yet. Also they said it would have to pose a mental problem for the kids which I don't think it really is.
> 
> I don't know what to think.


Have you spoken to your kids about the nudity?

What do they say?

I really have no advice other than be careful involving CPS in anything.
If you get your kids/family caught in the system it can be an absolute nightmare of epic proportions.
What was a small problem often becomes an unnecessary life altering traumatic event that can never be taken back.


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## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

How old are your kids?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, while kids can be around nudity with no problems, that's in their family of origin. I still think this is problematic.

Yeah, talk to your kids, and even more, listen. They're not likely to come right out and say it bothers them, but they may try to tell you in other ways.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Half of Europe spends the summer naked in front of their children. My wife, kids and I wander around the house naked.

I can't see why this would be a problem?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

johnnycomelately said:


> Half of Europe spends the summer naked in front of their children. My wife, kids and I wander around the house naked.
> 
> I can't see why this would be a problem?


I don`t have a problem with nudity at all and my house is as you`ve described yours.

However depending on the ages and genders of the OP`s kids I can see how this lifestyle in the American culture could concern a father whose wife seems to have just gone off the deep end.

I just want to re-iterate to the OP that DCF is almost always a poor choice.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?
Are you divorced yet?
Divorcing?

There may be other avenues for you to keep this lifestyle away from your kids.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

You have a weird issue with nudity. It's NOT a big deal, even the cops said so. Geez.

If I recall, his kids are 3 and 5. Or close to it. 

I still bathe with my 3 year old. Should someone call CPS on me? holy hell.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I think you guys are beating up on Iwantthekids a little too much -- it's not normal nudity when mom's boyfriend just arrives and starts doing it. It might be ok, but I understand his concerns.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah, I have zero problem with nudity, but for some guy to insinuate himself into another family and suddenly start having them run around naked, that's a tad bit off.

It could be the guy is just a wanna be hippie or something and there's nothing sexual about it at all. Or it could be something else. We just don't know.


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## jenny123 (Mar 21, 2012)

lamaga said:


> I think you guys are beating up on Iwantthekids a little too much -- it's not normal nudity when mom's boyfriend just arrives and starts doing it. It might be ok, but I understand his concerns.


Exactly......they are HIS kids too....doesn't he have a say in it? Whether it is legal or not doesn't make it right for everybody.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TG, read his other post - this is all recent behavior and appears to be initiated since his W went off the deep end and left him for this OM. (well I guess the OP technically left because his W was having this other relationship).


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

This is not normal for my WW in my opinion to do these things. She has never expressed an interest in being nude outside or in the house really. 

In front of me, my daughter will cover up if her brother comes in the bathroom after her bath or if she is changing in her room she will shoo him out and hold her private. Maybe that is for my benefit?

Just seems like the OM is trying to get my WW to "experiment" with nudity. I gather he works with at-risk kids and is a therapist of some sort. Body painting is therapy? My wife has been on anti-depressants for a long time and has a lot of stress. Her doctor convinced her I am the soucre and that is why she is leaving me. The OM has convinced my WW that my daughter is stressed and he has shown WW how to massage my daughter to make her feel better. Also this nudity is to releave stress etc I guess.

My WW isn't talking to me about what is going on I find out bits and pieces from my daughter or recordings. I am a little surprised my daughter doesn't talk more about it. Maybe she is being told to be quiet? My mind dwells on this.

I went home at lunch yesterday and no one was home, Got home from work and no one was home. Started to mow the yard and my WW and kids get home at 7:30. My daughter is wearing my WW's shirt and some shorts. They just came from swimming at a park that has lakes etc. My daughter told me OM was there too.

My daughter wanted to Mow with me for a bit (rider mower) and my WW says make it fast because they hadn't eaten yet and needed baths.

I worry because it seems my wife is rushing things with this guy and really doesn't know him that well. The evidence leads me to believe they have been seeing each other for about a month or maybe two. WW tells me nothing though.

I safe guard my kids, maybe too much but to be nude with another guy you met off Craigs list for a quicky seems odd to me.

I do agree that getting CPS invovled may not be the best thing yet. If I find any proof that this guy has been nude in front of my kids though I'm not sure what I would do.

Sounds like WW and my son may have gone to OMs for nude body painting but I have no proof.

Hopefully you can see how a fathers mind would think these things after readiing a bit more. I feel sick about it. If my wife was upfront about what she wanted to do, would I support it? Probably not. Being nude outside is a little much for me.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

IWantthekids, honey, I mostly agree with you.

I am one of the more liberal people on this site, and I have no problem with nudity, but I do have a problem when it's mom's new boyfriend.

Now, you have to ask yourself a question -- is it really inappropriate, or are you using this to get at her?

No way for us to know. That's for you.

I do see what you mean, and I tend to support you, but I feel compelled to present the other argument as well.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I plan to use it against her to gain custody. I'm not sure that my view is right but my lawyer thinks it is good evidence to help our case.

Let me ask this.
Parents nude with kids, OK?
One divorced parent nude with kids, OK?
One divorced parent nude with kids and OM/OW, OK? 
One non divorced parent nude with kids and OM/OW, OK?

Also outside and inside.

What is your take? I know my answers.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Unfortunately, what the law says is ok and what people may feel is ok are different things sometimes. I would have no problem being topless in public on a regular basis, but the law says I can't.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> I plan to use it against her to gain custody. I'm not sure that my view is right but my lawyer thinks it is good evidence to help our case.
> 
> Let me ask this.
> Parents nude with kids, OK?
> ...


I am a naturist so bear that in mind but here goes...

Parents nude with kids, OK? 
Yes IF... this starts when they are young.

One divorced parent nude with kids, OK? 
Yes. See my previous answer. No change.

One divorced parent nude with kids and OM/OW, OK? 
NO. They are not his biological children. Since he broke the family I immediately question his motives. 

One non divorced parent nude with kids and OM/OW, OK?
NO. See my previous answer.

Simple nudity in itself is not harmful or immoral. I say this as a Christian. It's all about the context of the nudity. In a private area with mom, I don't think it is harmful. However, children especially need to be protected from predators. I'm much more suspicious of non-family members than I would be of blood relations.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Unfortunately, what the law says is ok and what people may feel is ok are different things sometimes. I would have no problem being topless in public on a regular basis, but the law says I can't.


I believe Canadian law states that anywhere a man can be shirtless in public, so can a woman. This has been tested and upheld in Canadian courts several times. However, your local constabulary may not be up on the latest laws.

I understand that some people's moral consciences may not agree. But I honestly don't see the big deal with simple, non-sexual nudity.

OP, that being said, I completely DO NOT agree with your wife having the OM around nude. Or the fact that there is an OM at all. I just don't think you should press the nudity issue. There have to be other issues you can pursue. My heart goes out to you.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sandc said:


> I believe Canadian law states that anywhere a man can be shirtless in public, so can a woman. This has been tested and upheld in Canadian courts several times.


Only in certain municipalities, unfortunately.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

sandc said:


> I am a naturist so bear that in mind but here goes...
> 
> Parents nude with kids, OK?
> Yes IF... this starts when they are young.
> ...


These are my answers too but with one issue. My wife is hiding it from me. If she really thought nothing was wrong with it, why hide it. I also bolded part of your answer. This is what I am scared of. I don't know this guy at all, never met, not even his name. I wonder how much of the stuff my wife knows about him is truth too. 

Very hard to deal with. At least for me.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

sandc said:


> I believe Canadian law states that anywhere a man can be shirtless in public, so can a woman. This has been tested and upheld in Canadian courts several times. However, your local constabulary may not be up on the latest laws.
> 
> I understand that some people's moral consciences may not agree. But I honestly don't see the big deal with simple, non-sexual nudity.
> 
> OP, that being said, I completely DO NOT agree with your wife having the OM around nude. Or the fact that there is an OM at all. I just don't think you should press the nudity issue. *There have to be other issues you can pursue*. My heart goes out to you.


All the real good evidence I have I can't use. Not legally anyway.

No-fault state so I'm up against it. I am trying to prove I would be better at caring for my kids. She goes out all the time leaving me at home. She usually goes after the kids are in bed but she still isn't being much of a mom lately. I am documenting all this too.

Last night when I got home it hit me that there will be days that I come home to an empty house. It makes me cry everytime I think of it. I currently put my kids to bed every night after snuggling and reading books. I do, not her, me. Every night. 

Please give me strength to get thru this...


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## CantePe (Oct 5, 2011)

Hope1964 said:


> Unfortunately, what the law says is ok and what people may feel is ok are different things sometimes. I would have no problem being topless in public on a regular basis, but the law says I can't.


In Ontario you can. Come move over here, it would be topless heaven for you 

As for OP:

With parents - OK
With one parent (or the other) - OK
With OM\OW present - NEVER EVER OK!!!...

Let me repeat that NEVER EVER OK!!!!

Outside or Inside above still applies.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh, the OM wants your kids to run around naked?? I thought it was just your ex that was letting it happen.

Yea. hell no.

I get it now. This is nuts, and the OM is a perv. 

I don't mind being naked in the house. My girls are naked around me. I am naked around everyone (in my house, not guests LOL). Hubs is more reserved, and will come out in boxers, but our 12 year old doesn't go around naked (obvious reasons), but our 3 year old can't keep her clothes on.

but we are a family. 

An OM who wants kids to be naked is creepy, imo. HELL.NO.


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## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

Ditto, didn't get in the beginning that the OM is the prime motivator.

That would be weird to me, too.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

HOWEVER! children are molested by blood relations all the time.

Anyone can be a perv...but it just doesn't seem pervy when it's parents. OM/OW is just WEIRD!


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## The Renegade (May 16, 2012)

And one more: I am from Austria. Spas as described by Unhappy above are perfectly normal to us. There is nothing sexual about it, we do that for health reasons. 
You may put a towel around you if you are particularly shy, but if you wear any clothes (swim or other) you get thrown out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have no problem with nudity for adults.

It's when an adult is pushing for kids to be naked that sets my radar off.

But I was sexually abused as a child, as were my sisters...and many of my friends. It's so common...it pisses me off.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> I plan to use it against her to gain custody. I'm not sure that my view is right but my lawyer thinks it is good evidence to help our case.
> 
> Let me ask this.
> Parents nude with kids, OK?
> ...


IMHO, your WW and 3 year old son going to OM's house for nude body painting it not ok.

OM has no business painting your son's nude body.

I have heard of parents being arrested/charged simply because they take photos of their nude child... nothng sexual, just a kid running around nude.

Why would this man be so intrested in getting your children in the nude? That's my issue with this.

The most likely person to molest a child is their mother's boy friend. 

You have every right to be upset about this.

It seems that you are not living in the house with them, but are you there often? Sounds like you might be.


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## justabovewater (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm probably going to catch a ration for my opinion on this, but this whole thing seems way strange. If nudity around your kids is not something you and you ww practiced when you were together, it seems very strange to me that she would introduce this to them now. It seems irresponsible (IMO) that she is even bringing this guy around them so soon. If she wants to walk around nude while in his presence without the kids, thats one thing, but to spring this lifestyle on your young kids is weird. You mentioned that he showed your wife how to massage your daughter? Uh, Nooooo go in my book. This whole situation seems really out there especially since its not a lifestyle your kids are used to.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am paranoid about this issue so please take what I aim going to say pin that light. 

Suppose this guy is a child molester? Molesters gain access to vulnerable children. They target single mothers who are struggling or families in crisis. 

They gain the trust of the woman become her rescuer. They groom the child for molestation by slowly introducing activities that gain access to the child under cover of normal activities. 

Your wife is not protecting your kids by letting a man that she does not know have access to them in a situation that is ripe for possible abuse. 

Nudity is natural but it is not socially ace potable in the culture. The children are being exposed to a situation that is outside of the experience of most children in the US. (If you are in the US) 

They don't need to experience nudity to thrive. However, there is a possibility that they may suffer harm. It is easy enough to have her stop on that basis alone. 

I don't know where you are in the process of your divorce but I would be vigorous in putting a stop to this. 

Check this guy out. What is his background, any convictions or complaints? Does he work around children, appear to like children and seek them out. 

Watch your kids carefully. 

Child Lures© Prevention


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Oh, the OM wants your kids to run around naked?? I thought it was just your ex that was letting it happen.
> 
> Yea. hell no.
> 
> ...


He does not just want them naked. He's pushing them doing body painting while naked.

Now I'm not against naked body painting. One year two of my neices who were about 4/5 at the time were in swim suits in my back yard with a kiddy pool. So I have them paints and told them to paint each other. A few minutes later I looked and they were naked and going to town with body painting... and giggling up a storm. It was cute and innocent.

But strange man instructing his affair partner to get go around nude with the kids and do body painting for 'therapy' is just weird. And him wanting this to go on when he's around is even more weird.

Then take the fact that he was a one night hookup from Craig's list is too wierd... way too weird.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What do you know about this man?


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I woiuld either get CPS involved or take of this problem myself. Take your pick. Sorry there are priorities in life and my children would come before my life. Period.

This situation is not acceptable. It is not about family or adult nudity. It is about a creepy guy who is using your wife to gain access to your children.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

And THIS is why women who bring a man around their children so soon are FOOLS and really are putting their children at risk.

I was a single mom for 7 years. My daughter met ONE man....and that was after we had dated for 10 months and were getting serious.

Seriously....so wrong.

But again, I had my radar up because of my past. i didn't trust ANY man around my daughter.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

PERV ALERT! OMG! BODY PAINTING in the NUDE!? They have swimsuits!

I want to vomit now. I would NOT let my ex have my kids. She could call the cops on me and I'd die before she'd have my kids around that pervert. God knows what he does with those images. And god forbid he takes pics. Camera phones capture great memories.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Too close to home for me.  Gotta back out of this. But seriously, stop this. NOW. You are the dad. Fight for your kids.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

that girl, sorry to make you relive your past.

My WW was molested by her uncles at about 10 yrs old. Her father did stuff too but I'm not sure about all the details. I would think that would make her protect our kids more but she has never told anyone but the OM of what her uncles did. At least that is what she told him on the recording. She never told me before.

I don't have solid proof on the OM just recorded info. I may try to get my lawyer to request access to my WW secret phone. I think she sent OM pictures. If she did that would be child porn and he would go down. But my WW would be in trouble too. I struggle with how to handle all this. I want to protect my kids but I also want my kids to still have a mom. I guess WW isn't much of a mom right now though. 

Also to clarify my situation, We all still live together. WW does what ever she wants. I go to work and take care of things. One of the reasons I don't have evidence in hand is WW doesn't have a specific schedule. I thought about taking a day off work and following her but maybe nothing goes on that day and I just waste my effort. The PIs around here require a 1000.00 up front and don't promise anything. I can't really afford that.

Well I better sign out now, I've typed enough for tonight.

Thanks for listening and trying to help everyone.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I want the kids! said:


> that girl, sorry to make you relive your past.
> 
> My WW was molested by her uncles at about 10 yrs old. Her father did stuff too but I'm not sure about all the details. I would think that would make her protect our kids more but she has never told anyone but the OM of what her uncles did. At least that is what she told him on the recording. She never told me before.
> 
> ...


Do what you need to do OP. Your kids need to be protected FROM their mom. She is putting your children at risk. Hopefully your lawyer can come up with some emergency order to pull the kids from that situation.
My H is stepdad to my two older kids. He will be seen in sports shorts but never underwear. And he grew up in Germany.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I am in the camp of nuke this guy, but run everything through your atty. CPS can be a nightmare for everybody including the kids, so I would just use some deliberation before calling them.

There may be a difference between what is legal to use in a criminal prosecution and what is useful in a custody negotiation. Again, talk to your atty.

If your stbxw is allowing OM to molest the kids or if she is willingly sending nude pictures of the kids to him, she needs to be stopped ASAP and with all possible force. Look at it this way: If she is allowing molestation or child porn to occur, the kids will be harmed by it. A very major cause of future psychological issues for the kids is when adults know what is happening and fail to take action. If you gloss this over, the kids will always know that mom allowed this stuff to happen and dad didn't seem to care enough to step in.

It isn't about the kids not having mom fully in their lives if you pursue charges against her (assuming something bad is happening). It is about the kids having a father who protects them when they really need it.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

I want the kids! said:


> I don't have solid proof on the OM just recorded info. I may try to get my lawyer to request access to my WW secret phone. I think she sent OM pictures. If she did that would be child porn and he would go down. But my WW would be in trouble too. I struggle with how to handle all this. I want to protect my kids but I also want my kids to still have a mom. I guess WW isn't much of a mom right now though.


This is why you'd be losing every battle. She's the one that's conciously taking her kids to be naked around a predator and you're scared of her getting in trouble? 

Sorry brother but you need to wake up and act. NOW. Before your kids suffer the same fate as your WW.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Why do you fund your wifes lifestyle?

:redcard:

Your wife does not work? She just takes your kids to another man's home, strips everyone naked including the children and they body paint each other. Seriously?

But heaven forbid you would take a day off from work!?


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I know I need to do something but I'm not sure what. I don't have proof and by the time I get proof it may be too late. Catch 22.
Like yesterday, WW took the kids to another park out of town and OM was not with her. So if I took that day off it would yield nothing. I would see her enjoying the day with my kids the way a mom should.

How can I catch the OM? Any ideas?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Have a relative or a close friend follow your wife one day, once they meet at a park or w/e, he'll follow the OM to his house. Once he gets the address run a search on that address to get names.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I think I have a name. Not 100% sure though. What do I do with the name? I have checked it for being a sex offender. I think the OM is "new" (within the last 6 months or so) to here.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Run a background check on him.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

How? Online or something?


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Yes.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

I am just going to come out and say this. If you told the police that this happened, that you children were around another man, nude and they were body painting one another they wouldn't sit around idly and say there was nothing you could do.

Can the children speak? Can they say that this happened?

Come on man. Get your kids the hell out of there. Get a judge to put a retraining order on this man.

Do something besides type here about it. Sorry to be rash, but this guy would already be dead. Seriously.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I have no proof. My son is only 3 so his word means nothing.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> I know I need to do something but I'm not sure what. I don't have proof and by the time I get proof it may be too late. Catch 22.
> Like yesterday, WW took the kids to another park out of town and OM was not with her. So if I took that day off it would yield nothing. I would see her enjoying the day with my kids the way a mom should.
> 
> How can I catch the OM? Any ideas?


GPS in your wifes car.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> I have no proof. My son is only 3 so his word means nothing.


I think if he said that mommys friend touched him it would matter.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

They are your kids as much as your wife's. If she is not doing what is best for them, you have an obligation to protect them. Why is she automatically the person who has control over your kids? 

If this OM is handling your kids, I would go over and talk to him. Tell him not to come near your kids. 

Don't touch them don't talk to them. If he says he has your wife's permission tell him he does not have yours. And then walk away like you mean it.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I don't know anything about the guy really. My WW always makes up a story as if I can't figure out she is seeing someone. "I'm going to Deb's" I know Deb is in on it too so I can't talk to her about it.

My WW has been sceeming for months and I'm trying to catch up the best I can.

You are right if, my son said anything about OM doing anything I would be doing something fast. But I don't think my son would know if OM did something that I would consider wrong.

This is all disgusting.


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## Traggy (Jan 26, 2012)

Did he tell you that they finger painted on his body? (Your son) How do you know about it? Did I miss something? How do you know about the nudity? Am I way off base here? This thread has me fuming.

If another man did this to my little girl and she told me about it, even at three, the authorities would be told and I would be taking action to get her out of my daughters mothers hands immediately. Not tomorrow, but today, like 8 hours ago.

Also, if I knew where he lived, I would have already had a "talk" with him.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

With kids that age, there's absolutely nothing wrong with your wife being nude in front of them. Her boyfriend, though, is another matter, and I can understand your concerns about that.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> I have no proof. My son is only 3 so his word means nothing.


That's sooo not true. My 3 year old can talk up a storm and gives me everyone's business :lol:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Dude, have the 'good touch, bad touch' talk with your child. My kids know a good touch from a bad touch.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I record the house and WW mentioned body painting etc at OM's. Couldn't "over hear" if they all did it or just my son would be painted or what specifically. My WW did say something about her not being able to control herself if OM and WW did it. So I feel that only my son was painted by my WW. Again no proof either way.

I know my WW and kids have done body painting nude outside at our house. Daughter painted my WW. Daughter also told me she painted mommy's butt. I staked out our house and got pictures.

I may have a lead on a GPS that I can borrow. Guy at work is bringing it tomorrow. I plan to figure out where this guy lives, works, etc and try to expose him.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Dude, have the 'good touch, bad touch' talk with your child. My kids know a good touch from a bad touch.


I tried to bring it up with my daughter a little but she doesn't seem to pay attention. 

Do you have a link to some pointers about this stuff. I don't want to scare my daughter about being nude but I want to be clear too. 
As for my son he talks a lot but I'm afraid it would be dismissed as a 3 year old just rambling. 
Believe me I listen well to everything and anything my kids talk about. I am super involved when not at work. I don't do anything else but work and home anymore. I don't want to miss a second of time with them.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Make her listen. You're the dad. Sit her down and tell her that there is good touch and bad touch and many times, it all depends on how she feels about the touch. A hug CAN be creepy. Right?

Right now, with my 3 year old, she knows that NO ONE is supposed to touch her bottom, her 'front butt' as she calls it even though we call it her vagina , or her inner thighs.

I always tell her if I am going to touch her there (for cream, or wiping) and she knows it's ok. Hubs stopped going there a year ago :rofl: Fine 

With your kids, MAKE them listen. Do something with dolls or a puppet show and talk about good and bad touch. Talk about strangers and not to ever go off with strangers...even to look for a puppy. I swear, so many kids DO NOT know these things.

With my older daughter, when we lived on the Venice Boardwalk, we taught her to yell STRANGER and not HELP. No one really looks when people yell help. At least not here in LA.

Google some tips for yourself and start being PROACTIVE about this.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> With my older daughter, when we lived on the Venice Boardwalk, we taught her to yell STRANGER and not HELP. No one really looks when people yell help. At least not here in LA.


I taught mine to scream FIRE!!


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Make her listen. You're the dad. Sit her down and tell her that there is good touch and bad touch and many times, it all depends on how she feels about the touch. A hug CAN be creepy. Right?
> 
> Right now, with my 3 year old, she knows that NO ONE is supposed to touch her bottom, her 'front butt' as she calls it even though we call it her vagina , or her inner thighs.
> 
> ...


Thanks so much. I guess I let my wife handle the "mom" stuff and I am trying to step up even though she is here. I don't think I can trust my WW to be "right" anymore.

I'll talk to both of my kids I promise. I love and care for them more than anything.

Well, my work day is over. I'll go home and see if anyone is there.

Probably check in again after the kids get to bed tonight.

I really do appreciate my TAM family.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Oprah has done some shows on the topic of talking to kids about touching and safety. Try her site or youtube.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

So I get home tonight after Divorce Care meeting and the house is dark. I figure everyone is asleep, it was 9:20. Kids bed time is 8.

So I am very quiet, go in the hall and my daughters door is open. She isn't in bed? Check around and no one is home!

WW and the kids get home about 9:45. They were at OM's. My daughter told me they painted WW arms a little but everyone had their clothes on.

Put kids to bed and had a long talk with WW. She thinks I should trust her. I try to make her understand that she broke my trust by saying she wants a divorce. She said I should still trust her as far as the kids are concerned. 

We went round and round. She is now on her secret phone talking to, I assume, OM.

She also asked me if she could take the kids on vacation to TX. I need to sign a release. I told her I would talk to my lawyer etc. But really the answer is NO. SAHM = me paying for her vacation, NO WAY.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Definitely do not relent on signing for the kids to go out of state AT ALL. I'm sure you know that, I just want you to know that no matter how doormatish you may be or not be, no matter how sketchy this whole thing is, letting her take your kids out of state in the presence of this other guy is very dangerous for your kids and even your stbxw. It would be giving up all power and their is real risk that this weirdo os a genuine predator or worse. Your W is being a complete and utter fool and idiot, and you need to be talking to your lawyer on an hourly basis until you get this sorted out and have removed your children from this threat. Please stop posting here man, everything you write here is a moment that you are not pressuring every possible means to do something proactive about your situation... please please for your kids sake get to the bottom of this now. Get the guys name, pay however many thousands you need to do it and find out his history - sell your car or retirement savings if you have to this is a million times more important. Tell your W you need to meet this guy and ask him for all details which you fairly should be allowed to know if he is going to be in the presence of your children for any amount of time. Expose the situation to every adult you and your stbxw or this other guy may know, no time to ****er around here just pounce on this whole situation - don't do anything that will land you in jail or with a criminal record.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I want the kids! said:


> We went round and round. She is now on her secret phone talking to, I assume, OM.


I suggest that you get a VAR and put in the in the room she goes into when she talks to the OM on this secret phone. You can velcro it to the underside of some piece of furnature.

Two VARs are a good idea. One to have in the room. The other is to switch out so that you can listen to whatever is recorded.

This is about your kids. It's important. 

Have you asked your attorney about whether or not you can restrict her from having the children anywhere near another man right now?


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I VAR. WW is telling OM all sorts of lies about our conversation. Makes me out to be the bad guy. Of course. Said something about when we were talking about trust and him WW said she isn't "doing" him and that I need to go "do" someone. She told OM that when she said that I looked down and swallowed like I was guilty. Give me a break, WW knows she is the only woman I have ever been with. I really hate this WW and OM relationship. Than on the VAR she was talking about doing it to OM and if he could set up a 3way it would be great. etc etc. 
what a piece of work...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you need to confront her now. You have proof. Can you get a plan in place quickly to have someone take care of the kids? The environment is not safe for them. 

Please do something to get them away from her they need you their mother has gone crazy.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Lon said:


> Definitely do not relent on signing for the kids to go out of state AT ALL. I'm sure you know that, I just want you to know that no matter how doormatish you may be or not be, no matter how sketchy this whole thing is, letting her take your kids out of state in the presence of this other guy is very dangerous for your kids and even your stbxw. It would be giving up all power and their is real risk that this weirdo os a genuine predator or worse. Your W is being a complete and utter fool and idiot, and you need to be talking to your lawyer on an hourly basis until you get this sorted out and have removed your children from this threat. Please stop posting here man, everything you write here is a moment that you are not pressuring every possible means to do something proactive about your situation... please please for your kids sake get to the bottom of this now. Get the guys name, pay however many thousands you need to do it and find out his history - sell your car or retirement savings if you have to this is a million times more important. Tell your W you need to meet this guy and ask him for all details which you fairly should be allowed to know if he is going to be in the presence of your children for any amount of time. Expose the situation to every adult you and your stbxw or this other guy may know, no time to ****er around here just pounce on this whole situation - don't do anything that will land you in jail or with a criminal record.


Quoted for truth


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I think I have his name but it doesn't pop on any sex offender lists. Other than my WW and kids playing nude outside I don't have any hard evidence.

Do you think I should contact CPS? I don't feel ready to have them bust into my home etc. 

I did planted a GPS unit into WW car but it hasn't yielded any good info yet.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

I want the kids! said:


> I think I have his name but it doesn't pop on any sex offender lists. Other than my WW and kids playing nude outside I don't have any hard evidence.
> 
> Do you think I should contact CPS? I don't feel ready to have them bust into my home etc.
> 
> I did planted a GPS unit into WW car but it hasn't yielded any good info yet.


CPS is sketchy. They tend to frown on 'divroce' situations as in one spouse trying to one-up the other. Or they turn it around on YOU for failing to protect your kids. Yes even from their own mom. It's a crap shoot. What does your lawyer say?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You do not have enough evidence to confront her yet. If the affair were the only issue then you the VAR is enough. But you need more about what is going on with your children.

Just keep using the VAR, keeping with the GPS to get his address and more info on him.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

WW had the kids outside nude playing with silly string yesterday. I had the place staked out but by the time I got in a good spot to take pictures she had gone back inside. Also WW was clothed so these pics wouldn't be that useful?

Still trying to get any evidence I can about this or any other crazy things WW is doing.

GPS hasn't panned out very well yet but I'll keep trying.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

Per the VAR she had them out yesterday with whip cream and syrup? I got to take another day off and stake the house out. Sounds like she sent pictures to OM. I need to figure out about cell phone info and subpoena to get her phone. Maybe put her and the OM in jail for kid porn. I fear it will hurt the kids though not having a mom but I also fear what will happen if they have their mom in her current condition.

Weird stuff.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

Honestly, your lawyer should be advising you, not a bunch of amateurs (myself included) on a web chat board. This could easily get way out of control legally, and you need professional guidance to avoid pitfalls. For example, you planned to take pictures of your nude kids playing outside. As was mentioned earlier in the thread, that potentially could make YOU the kiddy porn perveyer (misspelling intentional). You are doing all the investigative work, and probably doing it badly, because you are not a professional. Making a recording of a conversation in which you are not a participant is illegal in many states.

Get professional advice. And follow it.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I need help. I plan on talking to my lawyer first thing in the morning but have to get this out now.

I get home tonight to an empty house. My WW finally brings the kids home around 9:30. They had been at OM's. I didn't say anything because it really doesn't matter. Then my daughter said they were drawing and the girls were naked but the boys had their clothes on. My WW overheard and came to me to say my daughter wasn't telling the truth and OM wasn't home. WW did admit she had her top off and they were painting.

Also my daughter asked me if I would play naked sometime. I didn't know how to reply, I just locked up for a second. I told her daddy doesn't do that. she asked why and I didn't know what to say so I said I didn't want to talk about it, it is late and you need to get to bed. It was 10PM by this time and her normal bed time is 8.

Please post anything and everything. I can't think straight right now. Thanks,


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Go see a child therapist and tell them what you know. Then take your daughter there.

If you can get her alone aske her to explain how to play naked. have the VAR on. Let her talk. Ask her who she plays naked with. Get it on the VAR and take it to your attorney.

Be careful that whatever you say on tape cannot be construed as you coaching her. Just let her talk and say as little as you can.

I wonder if you can turn him into someone for having child porn? You don't know for sure but it's a huge possibility. He works with children. There are a lot of children who need protection in this.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

The sooner your Attorney gets on to this the better, because I think an expert (child therapist) needs to be called in to get to the truth. Having children that age focus so much on nakedness doesn't sound healthy to me.


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## TwyztedChyck (Sep 11, 2010)

Sorry, but this has Nancy Grace written all over it.


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> The sooner the better your Attorney gets on to this the better, because I think an expert (child therapist) needs to be called in to get to the truth. Having children that age focus so much on nakedness doesn't sound healthy to me.


I agree. You shouldn't try to interview your daughter because you have a stake in what she says. A professional, disinterested third party who elicits the information will be much more credible if/when this becomes a legal matter. And, once you've interviewed her, it could be interpreted as "poisoning the well". You could be accused of planting false memories in the child. I suggest in the strongest possible terms that paying professionals to do the job right now will save you 10x the money and 1,000 times the aggravation in the long run.


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## I want the kids! (Apr 17, 2012)

I just contacted my lawyer and asked him to research what we should do. I also told him what you suggested.

Thanks,


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