# I wish she had done something to deserve this



## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

I've been with my wife for 8 years, married for 3. We've always had to work hard on our relationship. 

We go through rough patches but things keep settling back into normal routines. We saw a counsillor together for a while, originally because of problems relating to sex (or lack of it). Right now it's safe and mostly friendly.

Sometimes it feels like we're just old friends living together. We've had sex once in the last year and there's hardly any affection - a hug in the kitchen or a kiss goodbye, but I just feel like I'm putting my love on the fire and watching it go up in smoke. It's like she doesn't want it, or can't accept it.

I know that she loves me but she doesn't like to show it with affection, which is what I need/want. She does think of me and she is really considerate, but I'd prefer just to be squeezed or kissed. She only really kisses me leading up to or during sex (in other words hardly ever) and I miss just being close to her.

I know there are things we could do to enliven our relationship but so much is fundamentally wrong. I don't know if we'll ever be truly unashamedly happy together, like other couples seem to be.

I've never really believed I would go through with leaving her until a woman I met recently (we'll call her M) told me she was in a similar situation. M is in a long-term relationship (not married) and has begun to question her future with this guy. She was so candid with me that I started to wonder if I should be doing the same. I'm stuck in a rut and I want to feel like *me* again. My personality has faded over the last 8 years because I suppress so much of it at home. I began to fantasize about a future with M.

We're both in our mid 30s and have a dog but no kids. Could I really leave a childless 35 year old woman after 8 years? Would that be worse than staying with her out of a sense of obligation though? I'm not sure. Should I try to make it work?

The trouble is, I don't know really how I feel. I wish she had done something to deserve this so I could cry about the reasons and state my case and get good advice from you guys about how to set myself free. 

As it is, I'm just a man who's less than satisfied, fantasizing about another (younger) woman and too scared to let go of what I've got.

Thank you for reading this far and for not judging me. I'm finding it really hard to talk to anyone about this so I turned to you. I appreciate having this space to talk even if no one responds.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

Have you guys taken the love languages test? My H and I have been together for 20 years and just took it after reading about it on here. I was really shocked my H's top love language "touch"... Maybe that would help kick things off a little?


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## hopelesslyconfused (Sep 8, 2012)

I really appriciate the thought and one of the people I know mentioned the same thing. Mine is Touch when doing the test and hers to my knowledge is going to end up beingQuality time or Service. Sadly this is how I know I screwed up.


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## lovingsummer (Jul 27, 2012)

I wasn't surprised by mine "words of affirmation" but it did reinforce things that I have been telling my H is important to me. We took the test together, one after the other. He has really been trying to improve on that since he is not a big talker in general and VERY rarely about feelings. He is a big "toucher" though, holds my hand, puts his hand on my leg in the car, etc. I'm always talking so I guess we were giving what we wanted from eachother instead of what the other needed. It's been a good change for us and opened up more conversation about our marriage in general since we were heading for the ditch at a high rate of speed. 

I would recommend all couples do this, even if it doesn't cure everything, it couldn't hurt.


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

thanks for your replies - yes, we have done plenty of this type of thing.

I think the trouble is that we are just very different and, while we get along very well, there is very little reall affection left and it doesn't seem to be coming back. I knkow all relationships settle into quieter times but, honestly, I look to the future and I feel like if I stay in these circumstances I'm going to have a less than satisfactory life.

I want to have children, but I don't want to be a father in a relationship where I feel inadequate. I have no sense of the value I hold in her eyes. I must mean something to her or she'd have left long ago, but would it kill her to tell me? Most of the time I just feel like I'm in her way, hindering her. If I left, would she really miss me that much? Or would it set her free?

There's no reason for me to leave though, so I stay and I'm miserable and bored and nothing changes. Am I being more cruel by staying than I would be by leaving?


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Please don't get involved with M. You will hurt your wife more than you can imagine.
Take a deep breath, and be totally honest with your wife about how you feel. Tell her about M too.
You are dangerously close to having an emotional affair with this woman. Please don't do it to your wife! It will destroy her!
The fantasies you are having about M are just that! It's not reality. Stop talking to her and talk to your wife!
Go now - talk to her!
If you're not happy then be a man and tell her. Don't take the cowards way by having an affair!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

thanks daisy, but I'm really not looking for moral guidance or advice on how to be a man. I don't plan on having an affair - I have never cheated on anyone and don't mean to start now. Especially not now!

I know that M is just a fantasy - I can see that rationally. But these thoughts and feelings are a symptom that something else is fundamentally wrong. If I was happy at home, I wouldn't need that fantasy, you know? I really have no intention of pursuing it and I do see it for what it is - it's an imagined relationship that works the way I always dreamed this one would. M doesn't represent a way out, she represents a fictional reality where happiness is possible.

Yes, I should probably talk to my wife and tell her I'm unhappy, but I don't know what I'd say. I don't know what I'm unhappy about, or why. And I don't know what I'm asking her for - if I wanted more from her, I could ask for more. If I wanted to leave (if I really really wanted to), I could tell her. But what do I want??

As it is, I'm just unhappy and it's not her fault. I want my life to change and she's part of my life, so she comes into that idea of change. I'm really not about to have an affair. I'm just tired of always feeling like 'this is it'.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Not many people plan in having an affair. So just please be careful.
Do you speak to M about the problems in your marriage?
Approach your wife and just tell her how you feel!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dubbizle (Jan 15, 2012)

It does not sound like she loves you and you are not into her anymore and the only thing passing you buy is life,so it sounds to me like you need to sit down and say do we really want to be married which will causes here to say no I don't or she will want to work on things. 
You have no kids so that is no issues and at 35 she can start again with somebody else and a new life so sit down and have the talk.


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## Innosenses (Jul 8, 2011)

Hi laser-monkey, I believe you when you say Lady M was just a thought and that you no the fantasy is what you could have with your real wife. I think the finding the steps to get you there is what you have to find. The love language test was good for my husband and I to start spending more time enjoying each other. We also do little things like role play and opposite roles to have fun. The love language test helps you find out with your partner needs and vice versa.


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

thank you

dubbizle - it does seem like that, I agree... and yet I know there is still love there from both of us. Theres just a lot of underlying problems and I don't feel like i'm ever truely relaxed around her. Like i have kindof a wierd sense of humor - some poeple like it and some people don't. Most of the time i feel like she doesnt like it, so I cut that part of myself off - how can she enjoy me?? and I sometimes find her a bit too serious. She gets into really deep conversations so readily and she can dominate a group of people witha loong rant about something one person has said, until noone else can get a word in. her husband should be proud and supportive in those moments (cuz thats just who she is) but me, i just get bored. 

Innosenses - thank you for not judging me, i really appreciate yr support. Is the fantasy what I think I can have with my wife? or is it just anything else other than what I do have? someone suggested it might be that I choose to get excited about a fantasy because it represents me having some control. in real life, I don't have that control because i know nothings going to change.

You're both right though - i should find a way to talk to her otherwise we really will both be trapped.


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## Kimberley17 (Oct 10, 2011)

What do you like/love about her? Are you IN love with her or just a friendly kind of love? With no kids getting out wouldn't be that hard and it does seem as if she is not all that happy also. You guys need to talk.. Get everything out in the open. Maybe it will get better, maybe it won't. But the only way you'll know is to bring it up. Good luck!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

You talk to her open and honestly about how you feel.

"Wife, I am unhappy."

Be honest. Don't have an affair.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Well... i think she does deserve it to some extent, IMO she is breaking her vows to you.
How can you be expected to forsake all others for the rest of your life when she won't share her affection and body with you.

How can she expect you to live with out sex and all the loves and cuddles and affection and security..( i could go on but you get my thinking...) that go with that sex.

How many people get married and expect to live a sexless life??

If she doesn't want sex or affection that's HER choice. You can choose to accept it or not.

PS: I hope you don't discuss your marital issues with M. IMO that would be starting to border on a EA... and as we all know...that's a slippery slope!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I feel like I'm in the exact same situation with my marriage right now. So I have no good advice to give (but there are some other really good comments on this thread - thanks, other commenters!). Best of luck, I'm am right there with you.


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## moxy (Apr 2, 2012)

Stop talking to M. It's confusing you. You're possibly in an emotional affair fog and you're not thinking clearly. You may well want out of the marriage, but it is possible that your feelings for M are clouding your judgment. Getting together with M while you are both in this situation will not end well for either of you, so I'm glad you're trying to figure this out instead of cheating.

You owe your wife some honesty, so get a grip on your backbone and give her the truth! She can take it. It's a lot better than being lied to and made a fool out of and you need to come clean to her. She is not meeting your needs, but...does she realize that or the extent of your suffering? A real down to earth heart to heart needs to happen between you and your wife or this will eat you up inside.

Instead, just flat out tell your wife how you feel about things and ask if she will be willing to go to marriage counseling with you to see if it is or isn't fixable. If nothing improves in a few months, then get a divorce and move on with your life. It is never a good idea to stay with someone out of obligation or lie to that person about what you want. By telling the truth and communicating, you can either fix things or realize that they aren't fixable and move on to happier days.


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

Thank you all so much for sticking with me. Your support and your kicks up the backside mean a lot. It's really good to get different points of view 

Kimberly - she's been partof my life so long it's hard to tell. I do love her but what's worrying is that I'm not excited about our future. I want so much to be a dad but when i imagine her as the mum it fills me with a dull sensation. It's like I can't let my guard down and the thought of feeling like this forever seems like a wasted life.

waiwera - I appreciate the support, although I'm not completely innocent here. It's not like she denies me sex, its just not really something we do. we have a history of problems in that area and are both to blame. And i can cuddle her, but she sort of hangs there limply or leans on me so i don't get cuddled back. She has her ways of being affectionate (very indirect ways), they just don't match up to my idea of affection. It's a clash of styles rather than a choice. And, no, I've not discussed any marital issues with M.

moxy - solid, solid advice, thank you (although the backbone thing was a touch patronizing). I don't want an extra-marital affair with M. Part of me says 'wait, end things with wife and then see if a real relationship with M is possible'. Another part of me thinks that's insane. So, yes, absolutely my judgement is clouded. I'm an emotional wreck... _and _I have to see M 2-3 times a week and pretend I'm happy at home. I saw her yesterday, determined to be professional/respectful but my heart skipped a beat the minute I set eyes on her. I have no idea if it's a genuine attraction or just a longing for _anything_ different.

I Need to get my head clear. Prob need some time alone to think this through properly. I have no privacy at the moment, no space to myself. Can i relaly sit down opposite my wife and say 'i love you but i'm not excited about our future?'. I have to find a way to say that, don't I?

feministinpink - hope you're ok, let us know how you're getting on. if you need a rant, I'm all ears


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

Another piece of info (and this is going to make me seem like the worst person in the world) is that she's more or less housebound at the moment (long story which I'm not sharing) and she kinda needs me around to support her.

So I can't really start that conversation now when she needs me, even though these problems have ben going on a lot longer. also I have no privacy. i goto work all day and i come home and there she is. no privacy, no space just for me. i can't remember the last time i was alone. 

sorry for the typos and bad grammar, i'm having a horrible horrible day.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

You have a right to a marriage with affection and sex. If she is incapable of providing that she is obliged to seek help. If you have made it clear how you feel and she cannot or will not change you should leave her. Staying with her out of a sense of obligation is a bad idea, because you will become resentful and end up hurting her even more.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

laser-monkey said:


> Another piece of info (and this is going to make me seem like the worst person in the world) is that she's more or less housebound at the moment (long story which I'm not sharing) and she kinda needs me around to support her.
> 
> So I can't really start that conversation now when she needs me, even though these problems have ben going on a lot longer. also I have no privacy. i goto work all day and i come home and there she is. no privacy, no space just for me. i can't remember the last time i was alone.


Do you mean she needs your support financially or emotionally? If you mean emotionally, you're probably not the best person to that for her right now, and unless you are literally the only person in the world she knows, she can get emotional support elsewhere (friends/family). If you mean financially, you'll probably still be supporting her for at least a little while even if you leave, right? And the above poster has a really good point, in that if you stay because you feel obligated, you'll only end up resenting her more.

And ... if it's a matter of financial support, is her applying for disability an option? Just a thought.


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

johhny - it's really not all her fault. it's not like I'm trying to hav sex and she's saying no... we just dont do it. ive probably denied it to her as much as she has to me. i have my own sexual hangups so it's easier to just not bother than to risk bad sex and all its consequences (more anger, more resentment). 

The only thing i do resent her for is the fact that i don't feel comfortable wokring on the problems. i don't feel i have a safe place to explore and 'recover'. i've tried lots of different magical solutions but the only real answer is 'practise' and getting to know each other better........ and for that to work, i need to trust that failure is a safe option. But it's not. Imagine learning to ride a bike knowing that every time you fall off your wife is going to explode with rage and cold shoulder you for a month. That's what sex feels like for me and now i'm scared to even try it. can't even masturbate because she thinks it's cheating and she's always home. i'm so on edge about it all. i need some space.

Wow, that opened a can of worms.

FIP - both, and also practically. she can't really live her day to day life without me. yeah, she'd cope but it's be awful for her and i dont wanna be the cause of that. i know, i know, i'm causing problems with my silence too, it just makes the whole thing that much harder.

i feel guilty as all hell just talking about it on here.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

You shouldn't feel guilty for talking about it. You need emotional support too, and she's not clearly giving that to you


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

Does she hug, cuddle or show affection by touching others like her family? children? I ask this to rule out any issues like sensory disorder sorry that I say this but I know of some adults who avoid touching as much as possible and show affection in a totally different way.


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## rks1 (Jan 27, 2012)

laser-monkey said:


> ]
> The only thing i do resent her for is the fact that i don't feel comfortable wokring on the problems. i don't feel i have a safe place to explore and 'recover'. i've tried lots of different magical solutions but the only real answer is 'practise' and getting to know each other better........ and for that to work, i need to trust that failure is a safe option. But it's not. Imagine learning to ride a bike knowing that every time you fall off your wife is going to explode with rage and cold shoulder you for a month. That's what sex feels like for me and now i'm scared to even try it. can't even masturbate because she thinks it's cheating and she's always home. i'm so on edge about it all. i need some space.


I am assuming you are referring to ED. If so, I hope you have talked to a doctor about it, as trouble performing in bed is often related to heart and vascular disease. Although you are young, this is happening to men at earlier ages due to our unhealthy lifestyles. But if you are not referring to ED, then just disregard this.

And yes, I agree with others who say that you need to get your mind away from M, as that is affecting your ability to think clearly about your marriage. You can't make good decisions when your mind is clouded with thoughts of someone else. The idea of whether to divorce or not is a huge decision, and there shouldn't be an unnecessary 3rd party influencing that choice.


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## FRANC (Mar 2, 2012)

I feel your sorrow, so sorry you have to be here.

It sounds like you would benefit from IC to help you sort through your feelings...there seems to be a few different issues at play here, and each one is getting tangled up with the others?

I recall a very serious conversation with my H about an issue he had with me...but i had not realized how unhappy he was about it, although i sensed some resentment until he spelt it out i was not doing enough to work it out. It was a wake up call, and i sorted it out because i wanted to. Your wife needs the opportunity to hear you and decide what she will do from her side.

An IC could help you identify the important and crucial issues above any minor secondary ones, and help you find the best approach to discuss this with your wife.

Do you think you would benefit from talking to a sex therapist?

Is her current incapacity a long term thing? If yes, that gives you an added issue...but not a reason not to deal with this.

It might be that you are just incompatible and she cant give you what you need in the long term. And if this were me...i would rather be alone than feel lonely for ever more in my marriage.

Good luck.


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## FRANC (Mar 2, 2012)

And please dont feel bad about posting on here....it is unhealthy to be unhappy and frustrated etc and to try and keep those feelings inside...it will eat you up and hurt your soul. 

This place is perfect for people who dont want to explain their innermost feelings to family or even close friends. Even just writing it down is a form of relief and can be cathartic.

But...some action must be taken too...


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

Thank you all, and another update.

So, I've seen M again professionally but didn't stop for a drink after and not going to see her for another couple of weeks. The thing is, I know I'm imbuing her with magical qualities and it's all in my head, but at the same time, I'm clinging onto the idea as a possible reality too. its all very screwed up. I miss her. I miss her right now, but I also miss the version of her that i won't get to spend my future with. isnt that messed up?

Thewife - def not a disorder, just guarded about showing affection. vulnerable i guess.

rks - nope, the other one. quite the opposite! i saw a sex therapist and the solution mostly involves practise - either with or without a partner. As I think I said before, I don't feel safe working on this. there's too much anger around it, so i don't even feel ok bringing it up any more. it's like she just wants me to get better on my own (but withour jerking off which she considers cheating). Actually, this is one clear area where talking to her is essential. THANK YOU for asking.

Franc - not sure what an IC is but I do see a therapist on my own and he's really helping me get thru the emotions. Yes, it's a long term thing but youre right, i need to put it aside.

The really sad thing is, a part of me believes that no amount of talking or fixing things is going to be enough. Like we can address the sex and the affection but then what? i was in my early 20s when we got together and too enamored to see that we werent all that compatible. I was scared of losing her so I clung on when it went wrong and here we still are. If we solve the two major problems I still think I'll be wondering if I could have had a happier life (and her too).

I'm also aware of the irony that everythng i'm feeling about M is the same as how i felt about my wife back in the day. maybe this is just my pattern? either way, a couple of conversations that need having. 1. sex. 2. affection.

THANK YOU all again, I really can't say that enough.


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## conraddobler (Sep 26, 2012)

Wow, that sounds like me. Married 6 years. My wife is pretty , sweet, and just sort of there. There is no WOW etc. with us. We have had incredible drama with her son who is 23 throughout the course of our relationship. We did individual counceling 2 yrs ago after we almost split up (my choice) and things got "better" so to speak. Then we had a beautiful baby girl. Unfortunately, during pregnancy I really began to look at our relationship and realized that it is sort of a farce. She will do anything for me. I just sort of go along with things and do things to make her happy and not necessarily me. I realize that I don't love her and haven't for years and its incredibly sad. I want to leave but with a 3month old its a tricky situation. We have had a discussion about how I feel and it is killing her. I will try to gut it out for the sake of our daughter, but we'll see. How do you leave a "good" person...its tough


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## laser-monkey (Sep 7, 2012)

Yeah, that's really tough and having a child involved must make it so much harder. I can't imagine wht I'd say or do. That's why I'm thinking NOW is the time for me to deal with this. I've developed an aversion to the idea of having a child to the extent that I've srot of stopped wanting sex just in case something happens by accident. Not that she wants one right now either, but hey.

If i had the balls to be totally honest, id say:

 I'm uninspired and bored.
 I want to be able to relax in my own home. Your temper explodes like a jack in the box and I become your emotional punchbag and I hate it.
 I want to suggest fun things to do and hear 'yes' occasionally.
 I need proper affection. someone who can't resist kissing me in the kitchen. someone who's proud of me.
 I need a bit of chaos in my life. I'm never going to be super organized and i don't know if thats ever going to be ok with you
 I want to feel confident in who I am. I have a better time without you because i feel i can be myself
 I want to make silly jokes and not be made to feel like an ass about it.
 I wanna host bad movie nights and drive out to the lake on a sunday just for the hell of it. 
 I want to lie in the arms of my lover and not have to have a conversation about why it's ok to be being 'unproductive' for an hour.
 I want to feel free to experiment, to make mistakes, to initiate surprises. I can't do that living with a control freak.
 I want to stop taking life so seriously and start having more fun. you seem to love struggling and i can't stand by and be a part of that any more
 I want to be told i'm loved and to know that I'm appreciated.
 I want to be able to comfort my lover when she's upset. You don't let me hug you and I feel useless.
 I want to have sex. I know I have problems and I want to be able to work on them without guilt.
 I want to be a father but right now i'm struggling to find the space to look after myself.
 Romance is not sentimentality. Imagination is not frivolity. Happiness is possible. Why are you trying so hard to be miserable?
 I want to move forward in life and right now I feel stuck.
 I want to remember who I was before I met you. It's not your fault I changed, but I did.
 I don't think I can have these things and still be with you. I'm miserable and so are you and we could be so much happier without each other. I'd miss you every day. I don' t know how to be apart from you. my whole life is built aruond you and our dogs. but I'm only staying out of habit and it's not fair on either of us.
 I want to leave you. It's really going to hurt but it's the right thing to do and I think you know it too.
 I am so sorry.
 I love you.

And now I'm sad


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