# I am the LD and this is my story: input welcome.



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

UPDATE: I revived an old thread, new post on #59.

---------------------------

I've started and deleted this about a dozen times by now. I am a big reader/lurker here and I've been following the recent LD posts which is what inspired me to come out and face the audience for some input. 

I cringe at the labels HD and LD btw. I don't know why, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea when I've always thought of drive as more of a spectrum that people can slide on at different parts of life. For the sake of conversation I would say I am LD now by the standards of this forum. 

I am 30, H is 34. We have two kids (5 and 6), both work full time outside the home and share the household and bills and other responsibilities equally. I suffer from depression and anxiety that got exponentially worse immediately after the kids were born. I am under medical care and take SSRI's along with other medications for other minor health problems. Right now my biggest focus is on my mental health and trying to get mentally healthy as I can. 

I am at the heaviest I've ever been right now (except for when pregnant), I am about 30 lbs overweight and I hate it. I am actively trying to get in shape and lose the weight but I will be honest and say that this has been a recent thing to get in shape. When my mental state is bad, I feel incapable of making any changes in my life such as diet or exercise. I can barely get myself to work. I am 5'9" and a size 12. My normal size is 10. So the extra weight doesn't affect my dress size that much but I feel absolutely gross. 

My H is about 60 lbs overweight. Maybe more. He's struggled with weight his whole life and has let himself go in the last couple of years. It has never really bothered me except for just recently. Like within the last 6 Mos. I don't need him to be skinny but I think he's hit a threshold where it's just not attractive. I never say a thing. Who am I to judge him when I can stand to lose quite a bit myself? 

Our sex life is in waves. We will go a couple of weeks with 2-3x a week, then it might be a 2-3 week dry spell. 3 weeks is a long dry spell for us. 

I have trouble Oing. Always have. The meds make it worse but the payoff of taking them is worth it considering I go from a completely nonfunctional mess to being relatively normal and being able to function in society. Sex is OK but I rarely get anything out of it. It's not his fault. He would try anything. Nothing really works. I do have desire - our sex life is 10000% dictated by me. He does not approach. Never has. It's there whenever I want it for the taking but he will never express his own desire or "take me". So, the "waves" are how it plays out. I go through periods of high-highs and low-lows with spontaneous desire. Lately I have been in a low point dealing with a lot of mental baggage that has made it hard to be in the mood. 

I am an introvert and don't like too much touching. I'm not opposed to PDA or cuddling but I prefer to sit next to each other on the couch and spoon than make out. I was an only child and pretty much raised myself in a unaffectionate household. This is who I am at my core. I am easily overwhelmed by things being too intense...too loud, too bright, too hot/cold, intense smells, sudden touching or abrupt movements. I am shaken by all of those things. The meds help a lot. It's hard to describe to someone who doesn't live that way. I have tried very hard to be receptive to my husband's touch and I think it is getting better as he's learned how to approach and I have learned how to receive and get into it. 

I used to MB a lot to get myself off. That was pre-kids and pre-medication. It was never a substitute for sex, an addition because most times I could not O. Now I do not MB at all. When I want it I go to my H. I don't have any better luck getting myself to O with or without him so there is no benefit to doing it myself. I also realize that I am lower drive than he is so I try to save all of my inclination for him only. 

My H has never expressed anything to me about our sex life. I think he'd gladly like every day or every other day if I offered it. I think part of why he keeps the weight on is because it lowers his drive. I know he would deny that if asked. There was a time when we were both unto working out and his drive was through the roof the more he worked out. I struggled then a lot to keep up.

I talked to my doctor about my sex life troubles (not prompted by my H), and she suggested I try a different SSRI that supposedly had less of that type of side effect. The ideal would be to completely get off the meds but I am not ready. I know they are not for everyone and there is a lot of Stigma to taking them but I would give anything to never go back to where I was when I started them. Even my H who saw me in that state does not want me back there ever again. 

I started a new med with high hopes and have felt some positive effects from it, sadly an increased drive or an easier time Oing is not one of them. I am disappointed and was really hoping for a magic pill that would make me feel more alive down there again. 

I don't take hormonal BC and have not since we had our kids. We use other BC methods. I have been afraid to combine hormones with my pills thinking it may kill what little drive I do have. 

Also my biggest issue with our marraige is that my H and I do not communicate at all. He does not talk to me and seems like he just has no interest in conversation. To me there is no emotional connection. 

I am 99% sure if someone asked my H the same question he'd say lack of sex was his issue. 

When I ask him myself directly he will shrug his shoulders and say everything is fine? what are you talking about?

He is a "nice guy" (yes, he's read the book) and conflict adverse. We don't fight or argue but we don't talk or laugh either. Just coexist.

A couple other things from the top of my head -

- I would not say my drive is necessarily affected by my H or anything he did or didn't do. I hesitate to ask him to do anything (lose weight or pursue a different way for example) because I just don't think it's going to make a significant difference and I have no interest in making him jump through hoops. I think if our emotional connection was better it would up my drive (hyper bonding) but that likely I'd eventually get back to status quo. 

- All of my life I've felt like I got the short end of the stick because it seems that I have never found sex as physically pleasurable as everyone else. An O is something that takes a lot of work and is not reliable for me. I've always been told that it will get better when you get older. It has slightly. However I am wishing on a rainbow for those magical days I hear about when a woman's drive goes into hyper drive when she's older...hoping that happens to me so that maybe I can experience a bit of what it feels like to be normal. 

I really don't know what do to get things on a better track.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Welcome and thank you for sharing your story.

I don't have any advice for you, but I just wanted to mention something.

We hear stories from women here that run the spectrum from easily able to multiple O, to average amounts of O, to difficulty reaching O. I think there is a tendency to focus on the O for both men and women, and sometimes I think this focus is an unnecessary distraction.

I'm HD, and I do not O easily. I will never O from intercourse, I'm just not built that way. And yet, I'm a huge horn dog and always have been...and I have always had difficulty in reaching O's.

I've learned my body and what needs to happen to achieve and O or multiple O's, and sometimes, it just isn't worth it.

I love intercourse. LOVE IT. I would much prefer intercourse with no O with my husband to him just giving me an O. Though I do get both, I'm just saying that I think sometimes men and women both get it in their heads that the O is "always" the goal and without it, the rest of the act isn't worth it.

I can understand this thinking but I think it is misguided and sad. I think a lot of people just have their minds made up about what they like and don't like and they don't examine it or play with it after a certain point.

I rarely hear women talking about the joy of intercourse here...they don't talk about it in detail, anyway. I end up wondering, am I unique? What's the deal here? I find it so amazingly pleasurable that I have to wonder, is it simply because I'm mentally in tune to my body in such a way that I've got so much focus I can get additional pleasure from intercourse? Is it that other women are focused more on the O than the intercourse? What?

Anyway...I'm just speaking up as a woman who doesn't O but who is HD and loves sex. I think too much focus on O - for both men and women - can be a problem sometimes.

Welcome again.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Glad to hear your story. 

I went through depression 12 years ago after my brother died. I know of what you speak.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,

I love introverts. Their honesty and perceptiveness. 

The post below is a perfect example of my perception of the common mix of HD/LD marriages. 

Take a bow for being intensely honest about everything - including your aversion to prescribing hoops for K2 to jump through - hoops that likely won't change your desire level. 

As for the lack of communication - don't know what to say other than - you could try this. 

I'd love for you to share what you think with me. We won't argue - because my goal is understand you better - not practice for the debating team. 

I also recommend trying to be a bit playful with him. Not sexually playful. Just fun playful. 






QUOTE=kag123;12370681]I've started and deleted this about a dozen times by now. I am a big reader/lurker here and I've been following the recent LD posts which is what inspired me to come out and face the audience for some input. 

I cringe at the labels HD and LD btw. I don't know why, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea when I've always thought of drive as more of a spectrum that people can slide on at different parts of life. For the sake of conversation I would say I am LD now by the standards of this forum. 

I am 30, H is 34. We have two kids (5 and 6), both work full time outside the home and share the household and bills and other responsibilities equally. I suffer from depression and anxiety that got exponentially worse immediately after the kids were born. I am under medical care and take SSRI's along with other medications for other minor health problems. Right now my biggest focus is on my mental health and trying to get mentally healthy as I can. 

I am at the heaviest I've ever been right now (except for when pregnant), I am about 30 lbs overweight and I hate it. I am actively trying to get in shape and lose the weight but I will be honest and say that this has been a recent thing to get in shape. When my mental state is bad, I feel incapable of making any changes in my life such as diet or exercise. I can barely get myself to work. I am 5'9" and a size 12. My normal size is 10. So the extra weight doesn't affect my dress size that much but I feel absolutely gross. 

My H is about 60 lbs overweight. Maybe more. He's struggled with weight his whole life and has let himself go in the last couple of years. It has never really bothered me except for just recently. Like within the last 6 Mos. I don't need him to be skinny but I think he's hit a threshold where it's just not attractive. I never say a thing. Who am I to judge him when I can stand to lose quite a bit myself? 

Our sex life is in waves. We will go a couple of weeks with 2-3x a week, then it might be a 2-3 week dry spell. 3 weeks is a long dry spell for us. 

I have trouble Oing. Always have. The meds make it worse but the payoff of taking them is worth it considering I go from a completely nonfunctional mess to being relatively normal and being able to function in society. Sex is OK but I rarely get anything out of it. It's not his fault. He would try anything. Nothing really works. I do have desire - our sex life is 10000% dictated by me. He does not approach. Never has. It's there whenever I want it for the taking but he will never express his own desire or "take me". So, the "waves" are how it plays out. I go through periods of high-highs and low-lows with spontaneous desire. Lately I have been in a low point dealing with a lot of mental baggage that has made it hard to be in the mood. 

I am an introvert and don't like too much touching. I'm not opposed to PDA or cuddling but I prefer to sit next to each other on the couch and spoon than make out. I was an only child and pretty much raised myself in a unaffectionate household. This is who I am at my core. I am easily overwhelmed by things being too intense...too loud, too bright, too hot/cold, intense smells, sudden touching or abrupt movements. I am shaken by all of those things. The meds help a lot. It's hard to describe to someone who doesn't live that way. I have tried very hard to be receptive to my husband's touch and I think it is getting better as he's learned how to approach and I have learned how to receive and get into it. 

I used to MB a lot to get myself off. That was pre-kids and pre-medication. It was never a substitute for sex, an addition because most times I could not O. Now I do not MB at all. When I want it I go to my H. I don't have any better luck getting myself to O with or without him so there is no benefit to doing it myself. I also realize that I am lower drive than he is so I try to save all of my inclination for him only. 

My H has never expressed anything to me about our sex life. I think he'd gladly like every day or every other day if I offered it. I think part of why he keeps the weight on is because it lowers his drive. I know he would deny that if asked. There was a time when we were both unto working out and his drive was through the roof the more he worked out. I struggled then a lot to keep up.

I talked to my doctor about my sex life troubles (not prompted by my H), and she suggested I try a different SSRI that supposedly had less of that type of side effect. The ideal would be to completely get off the meds but I am not ready. I know they are not for everyone and there is a lot of Stigma to taking them but I would give anything to never go back to where I was when I started them. Even my H who saw me in that state does not want me back there ever again. 

I started a new med with high hopes and have felt some positive effects from it, sadly an increased drive or an easier time Oing is not one of them. I am disappointed and was really hoping for a magic pill that would make me feel more alive down there again. 

I don't take hormonal BC and have not since we had our kids. We use other BC methods. I have been afraid to combine hormones with my pills thinking it may kill what little drive I do have. 

Also my biggest issue with our marraige is that my H and I do not communicate at all. He does not talk to me and seems like he just has no interest in conversation. To me there is no emotional connection. 

I am 99% sure if someone asked my H the same question he'd say lack of sex was his issue. 

When I ask him myself directly he will shrug his shoulders and say everything is fine? what are you talking about?

He is a "nice guy" (yes, he's read the book) and conflict adverse. We don't fight or argue but we don't talk or laugh either. Just coexist.

A couple other things from the top of my head -

- I would not say my drive is necessarily affected by my H or anything he did or didn't do. I hesitate to ask him to do anything (lose weight or pursue a different way for example) because I just don't think it's going to make a significant difference and I have no interest in making him jump through hoops. I think if our emotional connection was better it would up my drive (hyper bonding) but that likely I'd eventually get back to status quo. 

- All of my life I've felt like I got the short end of the stick because it seems that I have never found sex as physically pleasurable as everyone else. An O is something that takes a lot of work and is not reliable for me. I've always been told that it will get better when you get older. It has slightly. However I am wishing on a rainbow for those magical days I hear about when a woman's drive goes into hyper drive when she's older...hoping that happens to me so that maybe I can experience a bit of what it feels like to be normal. 

I really don't know what do to get things on a better track.[/QUOTE]


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Also my biggest issue with our marraige is that my H and I do not communicate at all. He does not talk to me and seems like he just has no interest in conversation. To me there is no emotional connection.


Do you know when things started drifting off course with your communication? How was it in the beginning of your marriage? How are you two different from the couple you were back then?


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I know we have several things in common with our stories. 

Here's what I have learned in the past two years of my journey. 

When there's no talking about sex there is no real intimacy. When there is lying about sex there is no real intimacy (whether faking orgasms or pretending to be into it or enduring things our partner does that we don't like but pretend we do). 

I started out with orgasms being my focus, but at the end of the day the communication was the real problem. He never said anything about sex and so I didn't either. 

You said your upbringing as an only child was unaffectionate. How much of this did you end up bringing to your marriage? I grew up in a very large family and my parents just really didn't have time for me. I think in my life it was just usual to not ask anyone to do anything extra for me. That's selfish, it just takes more away from the parent, etc.

I think when you never have been able to expect or ask for special treatment in life it's especially difficult to start. 

Out of the past two years I did work out a way with my DH to have orgasms, but much more than that we are now talking about sex and that has ended up meaning more to me than the orgasms. I also had to stop lying about sex. Which was hard and is still hard. I end up having to remind myself regularly that the lying results in nothing good, results in a loss of intimacy. I can save DH feeling bad by lying about sex - but years and years of doing that led to nothing good. 

I do enjoy sex and have been higher drive than my DH - but it's been a world of difference, what takes place now compared 2 years ago before I brought it down. It's a different thing entirely to not be accustomed to sex being a giving activity only, but a mutual exchange.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

OP, welcome!!

Thank you for sharing your story so we can see the other side of the coin.

Fwiw, I'm not HD and it takes an act of congress for me to O. its always been that way.

Thank you for posting. Stick around, we could learn alot from you.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks guys. Something I want to mention is it might take me a bit to get back here and respond to everyone but I will do my best to keep up. 

Do I enjoy intercourse for the sake of it? Sure it's ok. I don't associate sex with exchange of emotion or intimacy. I know that sounds strange. It probably is. I have always been that way even before my H. I've been sexually active since age 14 and I've been a "serial monogamist" with sex only occurring in the case of long term and serious relationships. Sex with my H is better than any other experience I've had (have had a hand full of partners) but it's still just meh.

When my head is in the right place, sex is an extension of that and can serve as a great bonding exercise. When it's not - and most often it's not - sex is like yea sure, I guess we can do that. But I could also go eat a bowl of ice cream and have just as much enjoyment. I know that sounds bad. It's not anything to do with my H, beyond the fact that if we were more in synch emotionally I think it would help my feeling of intimacy with him. 

I need intimacy outside the bedroom in order to feel it in the bedroom. Sex itself does not make me feel closer to anyone. I've had a history of sex because that's just what you do. The natural next step. My first couple of years were fraught with painful experiences (no abuse or forceful Ness or anything. Just think I was way too young and naive to be having sex). I went into sex actually thinking it would be a real life porn scene and that I would be transported to ecstasy immediately. When that didn't happen (and I had no idea how to even instruct someone to help me get there) I was so disappointed that it was hard to pick myself up after that. How silly. It also hurt more often than not. So wasn't pleasurable at all. I still did it often because I felt that is what a girlfriend was supposed to do.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

My H has never been a very verbal person. He's incredibly intelligent and funny but just a man of few words. I think he was putting on a show when we were dating. He didn't have much experience dating before me and was basically the fat kid growing up that all girls overlooked. He got to the point when he met me where he decided he didn't give an eff what anyone else thought and he was just going to let it all hang out. Which I found attractive. Go figure. 

My biggest A-ha moment was one of the first times I met his mom. She was shocked we'd been dating as long as we had (almost a year before we met families) and laughed and said "I can't believe he had enough words to get through three dates much less a whole year!" That may sound rude but she's actually a funny and kind lady. I laughed at the time but now I get it. He just doesn't talk. He doesn't see a need in it. He would rather have his head in a book.

Problem is also that I sometimes enjoy serious conversation, especially when my mind feels heavy, and he avoids that at all costs. Nice guy calls this the shame complex. Getting into that book didnt help us much. I don't want to dump anything on him I just battle with a lot of craziness swimming in my head at all times and no where to let it out. I think deeply about things and would like to have someone to share that with. 

He will perk right up if I want to talk about baseball or CNN or something completely mundane that can't possibly have any ties to our actual life state.


----------



## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

kag123 said:


> I've started and deleted this about a dozen times by now. I am a big reader/lurker here and I've been following the recent LD posts which is what inspired me to come out and face the audience for some input.
> 
> I cringe at the labels HD and LD btw. I don't know why, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea when I've always thought of drive as more of a spectrum that people can slide on at different parts of life. For the sake of conversation I would say I am LD now by the standards of this forum.
> 
> ...



All I can say is thank you for sharing your experiences with us HD folks and I now understand more about my LD wifee.

I await more.......:smthumbup:


----------



## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

kag123 said:


> Thanks guys. Something I want to mention is it might take me a bit to get back here and respond to everyone but I will do my best to keep up.
> 
> Do I enjoy intercourse for the sake of it? Sure it's ok. I don't associate sex with exchange of emotion or intimacy. I know that sounds strange. It probably is. I have always been that way even before my H. I've been sexually active since age 14 and I've been a "serial monogamist" with sex only occurring in the case of long term and serious relationships. Sex with my H is better than any other experience I've had (have had a hand full of partners) but it's still just meh.
> 
> ...


The last couple of years I've been able to figure out what the whole reaching the O means. It's just wonderful and feel sorry I didn't find out sooner. I'm in my 40s although I've always enjoyed the sexual act itself but recently have been getting to the mountain top. I had been faking it through out my marriage and recently had to admit this to H. Our bodies are just different and it's important to discover what we enjoy. After the births of my children, I was diagnosed with depression and have been taking some medications that either took away my libido made it impossible to O even with my B.O.B. so I had to change meds. For me Lexapro and zoloft were the culprits. To manage my depression, working out 3 per week, Journaling, and taking time out to spend time with friends and family. I also had to let my H step up his responsibility with the children to allow for self time and had to work on not feeling guilty for not constantly being available to my H and children. When you take time to care for yourself without guilt, you will feel so much better and better able to give of yourself without resentments to your family and H. I hope this helps.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

kag123 said:


> My H has never been a very verbal person. He's incredibly intelligent and funny but just a man of few words. I think he was putting on a show when we were dating. He didn't have much experience dating before me and was basically the fat kid growing up that all girls overlooked. He got to the point when he met me where he decided he didn't give an eff what anyone else thought and he was just going to let it all hang out. Which I found attractive. Go figure.
> 
> My biggest A-ha moment was one of the first times I met his mom. She was shocked we'd been dating as long as we had (almost a year before we met families) and laughed and said "I can't believe he had enough words to get through three dates much less a whole year!" That may sound rude but she's actually a funny and kind lady. I laughed at the time but now I get it. He just doesn't talk. He doesn't see a need in it. He would rather have his head in a book.
> 
> ...


Have you tried writing as a way to reach him? Maybe an email would be easier for him to work with than talking face to face?


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,

As far as the reading goes - the immersion in that type activity - I've been like that since I was 8. 

And initially, I found processing M2's negative emotions via conversation be stressful, frustrating and exhausting. It took me years to develop the ability to be fully present while remaining almost unaffected by M2's emotional storms. 

I say almost unaffected because - I do feel bad for her when she's working through something painful. Bad - but not anxious. 

I slowly learned that there is no better feeling than getting to know someone really well while simultaneously helping them work through a tough situation. 

I don't know if your H has the ability to develop that skill. But he might want to give it a try. Because it's a foundational element to many strong marriages. 







kag123 said:


> My H has never been a very verbal person. He's incredibly intelligent and funny but just a man of few words. I think he was putting on a show when we were dating. He didn't have much experience dating before me and was basically the fat kid growing up that all girls overlooked. He got to the point when he met me where he decided he didn't give an eff what anyone else thought and he was just going to let it all hang out. Which I found attractive. Go figure.
> 
> My biggest A-ha moment was one of the first times I met his mom. She was shocked we'd been dating as long as we had (almost a year before we met families) and laughed and said "I can't believe he had enough words to get through three dates much less a whole year!" That may sound rude but she's actually a funny and kind lady. I laughed at the time but now I get it. He just doesn't talk. He doesn't see a need in it. He would rather have his head in a book.
> 
> ...


----------



## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

kag123,
I think the single most important thing you can do it both lose weight. I recently lost 50 pounds and my wife lost 20. 
It has helped our self confidence and our ability to fully give ourselves sexually to each other. Coming to bed while feeling insecure about ones physical appearance is setting yourself up for failure, sexually speaking.

I would suggest a gym membership for both of you. Go together on a regular basis and start losing weight. If you can concentrate on just ONE thing and accomplish that ONE thing, it will make a massive difference in MANY aspects of your life. The hardest part will be getting your husband on board.

Typically, when one spouse starts shedding weight, the other soon follows out of fear that the thinner one is preparing to find someone else.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

my wife takes SSRIs for her OCD... recurrent catastrophic thoughts. She has no drive. She hasn't had any sex drive for the last 12 years... We used to have sex twice a month, but now it's gone to once a month and we are "entangled" in a two month dry spell right now. I used to mind a lot, because my wife would not communicate with me. Unlike you. To be honest, I've given up now. It's not her fault, although she could seek therapy for her OCD. But she doesn't want to. She's also doubled in size since we met. I've put a bit on, but not as much! She is a real issue with her body. Which I love, regardless!

You have a very good reason to be LD, so nobody here is going to hold it up against you. In fact, you are doing quit a lot to keep your husband happy. I wish my wife did that too... but I've stopped asking for it.


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

I'm sort of stunned and saddened by how many women are affected by post partum depression.

I could very well realize how being depressed would also suppress libido. Hopefully husbands try to understand and deal in a compassionate way.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Hi Kag,

kudos to you for putting it all out there!

Depression sucks!!!! If you have found a med combo that works, stick with it! I went through a major depression in my 30's and I will do ANYTHING to never go through that again! I'd rather have cancer!

Your FOO issues play a role in your *availability to receive love. *

Read that again and think about how that applies to you. The next step is to come to understand that you CAN alter your ability to receive love and the easiest way to do that is to alter the way you love others, spouse, kids, friends and even awesome coworkers. Find ways to be more emotionally expressive with everyone. Hear how much enthusiasm you put into your own communication.

In terms of your husband, I completely agree with what MissScarlett has said. True intimacy is missing between you and your H. NoraJane suggested writing and I second that. I am much better at communicating in written from than verbally. 

But, it would be helpful to you, I think, if your H could also learn to be more intimate and express himself more.

Talking about sex is so hard, but it is the most important thing a married couple must learn in order to achieve true intimacy. Intimate honesty is scary as hell!

We don't want our spouse to see things about us that we think make us unworthy. For instance, I can be self centered, though I try not to be. I used to hide my self centered thoughts and feelings which meant I hid from my husband. I had to accept that yes, I can be and sometimes am self centered.

Why doesn't your husband initiate sex? Is it because of last rejections by you or because of how you need to feel some control so you don't become anxious? Do you feel as if your husband desires you?

Body image is a huge deal for many women. Your height and size seem very healthy to me. Do you feel like your expectation for your body are realistic? How much does popular advertising affect your self image? 

Anxiety is the antithesis of an aphrodisiac. Ha! Accidental alliteration!


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Kag,
> 
> As far as the reading goes - the immersion in that type activity - I've been like that since I was 8.
> 
> ...


Emotional storms. Yikes. 

I understand what you are saying and I think my husband is exactly as you describe. He somehow internalizes every emotion I have as its his fault. I still can't wrap my head around why or how he does that. 

I am incredibly sensitive to appearing too emotional or "out of control". Just the language you used - emotional storms - to me illustrates that you view your wife's personality as somehow hysterical and over dramatic. You probably don't really think that way at all. I own that it's a sensitive spot for me and a wound I carry. However it affects my ability to open up to him. I don't feel like I should have to dump any of my own problems onto him and force him to sit while I vent. I want him to WANT to listen to me. You can't make someone do that. Any perceived hesitation or disinterest by him when I am talking and I shut down immediately. 

Also an issue of mine, probably from years of relative isolation growing up, is that I tend to get lost in my own head a lot. I think deeply about everything all of the time. I find that my husband doesn't do that, he seems to live life at its surface without much of a care in the world. I used to consider that a fault of his. That he was too shallow? Now I feel it is a fault of mine. That I am too enveloped in my own head and my thoughts are too intrusive. It is another reason I take the meds and they do help. I am analytical by nature to my own detriment.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

norajane said:


> Have you tried writing as a way to reach him? Maybe an email would be easier for him to work with than talking face to face?


I used to use email as a way of communicating with him in the past, but it seems to make him just as uncomfortable. He does not respond to my emails and when I try to bring them up face to face to discuss he shuts me down and says he didn't respond because he has nothing to say. So I stopped.


----------



## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

norajane said:


> Have you tried writing as a way to reach him? Maybe an email would be easier for him to work with than talking face to face?


My wife and I have found it easier for big issues to communicate in writing--either emails or even texts. For me, it helps give me the time to organize my thoughts and helps keep me from saying something stupid.

usually.


----------



## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

kag123 said:


> I used to use email as a way of communicating with him in the past, but it seems to make him just as uncomfortable. He does not respond to my emails and when I try to bring them up face to face to discuss he shuts me down and says he didn't respond because he has nothing to say. So I stopped.


How do you respond to his emails/what he responds back with? I'm wondering why he is so afraid to say anything back, as marriage should be a safe place to open up. Can you ask him to try the writing exchange again and promise to not say anything negative back to him, just to let him open up freely? The communication between spouses is so important. 

I also agree with Faithful Wife, in that focusing on getting an orgasm can be a big mistake. I don't always o every time we have sex, but just love having sex in general. The experience itself is what is so fun, not just the end result.


----------



## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

kag123 said:


> I've started and deleted this about a dozen times by now. I am a big reader/lurker here and I've been following the recent LD posts which is what inspired me to come out and face the audience for some input.
> 
> I cringe at the labels HD and LD btw. I don't know why, I just have a hard time swallowing the idea when I've always thought of drive as more of a spectrum that people can slide on at different parts of life. For the sake of conversation I would say I am LD now by the standards of this forum.
> 
> ...


I'd recommend that you change your goals. Quit thinking about sex in terms of having an orgasm and start thinking about it as a way to improve your marriage, improve communication, improve trust, improve intimacy. That takes the pressure off. You aren't competing with every other woman on earth. You are trying to keep and improve upon what you have. Doing nothing or waiting for the Orgasm Fairy to whack you with her wand is unlikely to work. By the time it does, your husband may be so pissed and disgusted, he'd be more likely to be aroused by a coffee table than by you. 
You have two children who are growing up with a very warped view of what a marriage looks like and watching you and your husband is where they will learn about adult relationships. Kids aren't typically invited in the room when their parents have sex but even stupid kids know when there is a close, intimate, safe, bond between their parents and when their parents are behaving as roommates. 
You have your very own man and yet you are 99% certain he is walking around feeling sexually deprived. He's so sure he'll be turned down, he barely even mentions sex to his own wife. Very few dogs are content to be kicked forever so the logical consequence is he will either leave or have an affair and who could seriously blame him if he took either course? You might deserve that, but your innocent kids don't. You might carry on just fine without your husband but your kids will suffer  financially, academically, and behaviorally. 
A three week dry spell for a 30 year old sounds a bit unreasonable but without some changing, things can and will get a lot worse. Weeks can turn into months and months turn into years. I'd think now would be the time to turn this around and I don't believe your dry spells are so long that you'd find it hard to turn it around. Trying to get yourself back in the groove after 6-8 months of no sex would be a lot harder. 
I think it's great that you actually do realize there's a problem and you're trying to do something about it. I hope you keep trying until you find success. Instead of focusing on all the reasons you don't have sex, how about focusing on all the reasons you should? We can talk ourselves into or out of almost anything. Again, don't plan to have sex, but plan periods for intimacy, sexual and otherwise, with your husband. If some of these lead to sex, that's even better. Even if they don't, if you both have been intimate and had a pleasurable experience, enjoying each others' touch and conversation, it's a "win" whether or not either of you has an orgasm.


----------



## larry.gray (Feb 21, 2011)

Welcome Kag and thanks for having the courage to post.

I'd say you're wise to stay away from the combo of SSRI and hormonal birth control. My wife was on both at one point and it killed her drive dead. She didn't orgasm and didn't find pleasure in sex. She jokes that birth control stops conception by preventing sex.

Your story is quite a bit different in that your husband isn't a chaser. I think that is good from the perspective of not building resentment as fast. The "NO" was the part that was so hard for me. Or worse, my wife _wanted_ to do something but felt nothing. We'd get started and then just go nowhere.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Anonymous07 said:


> How do you respond to his emails/what he responds back with? I'm wondering why he is so afraid to say anything back, as marriage should be a safe place to open up. Can you ask him to try the writing exchange again and promise to not say anything negative back to him, just to let him open up freely? The communication between spouses is so important.
> 
> I also agree with Faithful Wife, in that focusing on getting an orgasm can be a big mistake. I don't always o every time we have sex, but just love having sex in general. The experience itself is what is so fun, not just the end result.


That's the thing. He doesn't respond at all. usually he will say he was too busy, if pressed he will admit he has nothing to say. Hard to get a convo going when the person stonewall you. 

I'm not sure why he does that except that according to his mom that's just how he is. He doesn't tell me things. Even mundane things I should know like an important work event or something to do with the kids. I'll find out days later by surprise and he'll shrug and say "oh I forgot to tell you" or "i thought it wasn't important enough to mention it". 

It's not like he has any bad will towards me that I know of. It's just how he is. He doesn't share things. He doesn't talk unless he has to. He self selects what he thinks is important enough to mention to me. Half of the time I miss details of things I should know. I've never really met anyone else like him in that regard. 

In the bedroom he is the same. He will not approach. He will not initiate. He will wait forever. If pressed he will tell me his ideal would be to have sex every day or every other day. He thinks it's important that I O. He makes it his goal even though I ask him not to. I should appreciate that though because he is very attentive and loving in bed. 

I am in a tiff with him at the moment. I told him three days ago that I felt like he shuts me out when I try to talk to him and that it hurt my feelings. I told him point blank "I would be more attracted to having sex with you if I felt emotionally connected to you. I need to be able to have open conversation with you to feel that way. When you shut me out it makes me feel unimportant to you." Radio silence. We have not had sex for 3 weeks and he has not initiated any conversation with me or been receptive to any talks on my end either. I can't bring myself to initiate sex when I just told him I need more from him and he ignored me.


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

What about marriage counseling? 

I suspect he would resist hard because MC is all about learning to communicate. But if he wants a successful marriage, maybe he can accept that you two have a PROBLEM that you need to address.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

As much as I typically disagree with you Unbelievable, I have never felt you to be an intentionally hurtful person. But some of the things you've said below are in fact, quite hurtful and highly insensitive.




unbelievable said:


> I'd recommend that you change your goals. Quit thinking about sex in terms of having an orgasm and start thinking about it as a way to improve your marriage, improve communication, improve trust, improve intimacy.


How do you feel about the sexlessness in your marriage? Would you feel better about it if you and your wife often hugged touched and kissed, if you often gave her orgasms but you rarely got one? How would that make you feel?




> That takes the pressure off. You aren't competing with every other woman on earth. You are trying to keep and improve upon what you have. Doing nothing or waiting for the Orgasm Fairy to whack you with her wand is unlikely to work. *By the time it does, your husband may be so pissed and disgusted, he'd be more likely to be aroused by a coffee table than by you*.



This is the hurtful part. And I don't believe you were intentionally hurtful, just incredibly insensitive.

If a man can't be bothered to love his wife and touch her in the ways that SHE feels good about, if it is too much effort for him, than he should stick to his right hand!

If she wants an orgasm she should feel free and comfortable seeking one. If she wants to experience the highs and lows of sex including orgasms, he H should be by her side saying "what can I do to help?"

Maybe she feels that she SHOULD want an orgasm, or maybe she really does want one. But just because a lot of women need more emotional intimacy than a man does in order to reach orgasm doesn't mean her orgasm is too much freaking work!!!!



> You have two children who are growing up with a very warped view of what a marriage looks like and watching you and your husband is where they will learn about adult relationships. Kids aren't typically invited in the room when their parents have sex but even stupid kids know when there is a close, intimate, safe, bond between their parents and when their parents are behaving as roommates.


Do you have kids? What are they learning from your marriage?




> You have your very own man and yet you are 99% certain he is walking around feeling sexually deprived. He's so sure he'll be turned down, he barely even mentions sex to his own wife. Very few dogs are content to be kicked forever so the logical consequence is he will either leave or have an affair and who could seriously blame him if he took either course? You might deserve that, but your innocent kids don't. You might carry on just fine without your husband but your kids will suffer financially, academically, and behaviorally.


Bitterness projection alert!

This thread was supposed to be support for the OP, how the hell does your statement above support her? It's just you stampeding your own hurt and anger to other woman for your own wife. Why don't you deal with her and leave other woman alone!





> A three week dry spell for a 30 year old sounds a bit unreasonable but without some changing, things can and will get a lot worse. Weeks can turn into months and months turn into years. I'd think now would be the time to turn this around and I don't believe your dry spells are so long that you'd find it hard to turn it around. Trying to get yourself back in the groove after 6-8 months of no sex would be a lot harder.
> I think it's great that you actually do realize there's a problem and you're trying to do something about it. I hope you keep trying until you find success. Instead of focusing on all the reasons you don't have sex, how about focusing on all the reasons you should? We can talk ourselves into or out of almost anything. Again, don't plan to have sex, but plan periods for intimacy, sexual and otherwise, with your husband. If some of these lead to sex, that's even better. Even if they don't, if you both have been intimate and had a pleasurable experience, enjoying each others' touch and conversation, it's a "win" whether or not either of you has an orgasm.


While I applaud you finally getting around to constructive advice I find myself scratching my head and wondering if you read anything other than a few bits and pieces of her OP?

Did you see the part where both she and her husband tend to shy away from intimacy? Did you see the part where she has tried to initiate intimacy with him by writing to him and he doesn't respond? 

News flash: when a woman ours her heart out and her man doesn't respond, gets what dries up like the Sahara?



Kag, your H sounds a lot like my H when I first came to TAM. I sent him long emails that went unanswered too. I made direct requests that he was silent about. I sent links and purchased books that he didn't read, I enrolled us in MC on two different occasions that went no where. And I was the one with the crazy sex drive!

It's a process Kag, and it takes a while. You guys are young and don't have 25 years of dysfunctional history to over come. 

You will get there!


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

kag123 said:


> That's the thing. He doesn't respond at all. usually he will say he was too busy, if pressed he will admit he has nothing to say. Hard to get a convo going when the person stonewall you.
> 
> I'm not sure why he does that except that according to his mom that's just how he is. He doesn't tell me things. Even mundane things I should know like an important work event or something to do with the kids. I'll find out days later by surprise and he'll shrug and say "oh I forgot to tell you" or "i thought it wasn't important enough to mention it".
> 
> ...


This is similar to my husband, except he communicates about mundane stuff, family stuff and work stuff pretty well. But he couldn't even identify what he feels let alone communicate it.

Does your H laugh very often? Do you think he too might be depressed?

It's taken some blood sweat and tears but my H is making improvements that I really appreciate.

Keep trying to reach him. The bolded part above is excellent. He may not be talking but I can promise you he is doing some serious thinking.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,
I do want to emphasize a few things. 

I truly don't consider M2 to be either hysterical or a drama queen. 

It is true that she is more emotional than I am. Equally true that most of that emotional energy is positive. 

And yes, I used to internalize her agitation in a way that was very painful and draining. 

I read a summary of the Mars/Venus communication styles - had a lightbulb moment and focused on accepting, and ultimately embracing our differences. 

It only took me a few months after the lightbulb moment to learn to not internalize her emotions. It took years to get good at being supportive in a really helpful way. 






kag123 said:


> Emotional storms. Yikes.
> 
> I understand what you are saying and I think my husband is exactly as you describe. He somehow internalizes every emotion I have as its his fault. I still can't wrap my head around why or how he does that.
> 
> ...


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Un,
This is an example of shooting first and asking questions later. 

You don't know anything about K2, therefore you don't know how he feels. You've made some large and toxic assumptions regarding his view of the situation. 

We're in the very beginning of this thread and you've told Kag that she's a bad wife and a bad mother because she isn't having relations with her H at a frequency you deem age appropriate. 

She asked for assistance not - shaming and emotional manipulation. 

I sure hope you treat U2 better than the LD posters here. 




unbelievable said:


> I'd recommend that you change your goals. Quit thinking about sex in terms of having an orgasm and start thinking about it as a way to improve your marriage, improve communication, improve trust, improve intimacy. That takes the pressure off. You aren't competing with every other woman on earth. You are trying to keep and improve upon what you have. Doing nothing or waiting for the Orgasm Fairy to whack you with her wand is unlikely to work. By the time it does, your husband may be so pissed and disgusted, he'd be more likely to be aroused by a coffee table than by you.
> You have two children who are growing up with a very warped view of what a marriage looks like and watching you and your husband is where they will learn about adult relationships. Kids aren't typically invited in the room when their parents have sex but even stupid kids know when there is a close, intimate, safe, bond between their parents and when their parents are behaving as roommates.
> You have your very own man and yet you are 99% certain he is walking around feeling sexually deprived. He's so sure he'll be turned down, he barely even mentions sex to his own wife. Very few dogs are content to be kicked forever so the logical consequence is he will either leave or have an affair and who could seriously blame him if he took either course? You might deserve that, but your innocent kids don't. You might carry on just fine without your husband but your kids will suffer financially, academically, and behaviorally.
> A three week dry spell for a 30 year old sounds a bit unreasonable but without some changing, things can and will get a lot worse. Weeks can turn into months and months turn into years. I'd think now would be the time to turn this around and I don't believe your dry spells are so long that you'd find it hard to turn it around. Trying to get yourself back in the groove after 6-8 months of no sex would be a lot harder.
> I think it's great that you actually do realize there's a problem and you're trying to do something about it. I hope you keep trying until you find success. Instead of focusing on all the reasons you don't have sex, how about focusing on all the reasons you should? We can talk ourselves into or out of almost anything. Again, don't plan to have sex, but plan periods for intimacy, sexual and otherwise, with your husband. If some of these lead to sex, that's even better. Even if they don't, if you both have been intimate and had a pleasurable experience, enjoying each others' touch and conversation, it's a "win" whether or not either of you has an orgasm.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Kag, your husband sounds like mine in the way they are pretty unemotional. 

This was a huge selling point for me during our courtship. Being an emotional person, having been in highly charged emotional relationships, being with DH was so calm and so soothing. We didn't fight, for 20 years we've had a pretty peaceful marriage. 

It does translate to the bedroom, however. Someone who isn't passionate and isn't emotional in their personality isn't going to become that person in bed. 

There are some things I've had to accept in order to stay with my DH. He isn't going to chase me, he isn't going to really open up deep and talk to me about his sexual fantasies, he isn't going to be overly verbal in how he feels about me. 

I can live with that part of things and the rest has adjusted to where i feel included in sex and am happy with the frequency and end result. 

It makes me CRAZY when people say to not focus on the orgasm. When you've been having sex for 20+ years and not having orgasms - hello, I've not been focused on it at all. And it got me 20 years of orgasm-less sex. Enough of that! I want the freaking orgasms. I never want to have sex again without one. 

But now, I know from things you've said before that it's important to hour DH that you have one - but also he doesn't know you aren't having them. And if you want that to change - you are going to have to change. You're going to have to be honest about it. It will shock him but it also might start the dialogue you need to make this better. In my opinion.


----------



## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks for posting this- the LD HD thing kinda drives me nuts too. I also see it as a spectrum and I have at both ends at different times in my own marriage. I did get stuck at the LD end for several years. After facing a marriage crisis (H had an emotional affair) we discovered that we had HUGE communication problems. This lead to me not feeling connected to my husband and thus not really desiring sex with him. He was not present emotionally or physically in our marriage and would just show up once in a while and attack me for sex. It was weird. ANd then he would feel guilty afterward for having these wants when I was less than enthusiastic. Instead of addressing this, however, we both kind of ignored it- thought it was normal for people who had been married for a long time and were really so busy with our kids, career, etc that we just started living as roommates. In hindsight we weren't always like that- when we first met we were both HD. As time went on we were both MD (is that a thing?? Medium drive??) Then I was LD and he was HD- it just kind of happened over the years- he pulled away because he was frustrated and embarrased about his failing career, etc and I didn't feel connected because he wasn't present. Seems simple now, but when you are in the middle of it it is harder to recognize! So, H had an EA with a co-worker that totally blew apart our world and forced us to look at everything. He changed his schedule to be home more, we started spending LOTS of time together and talking and looking at every part of our relationship. Funny thing was as we started really connected it increased my drive and kind of leveled his out too. 

I guess what I've realized is that we don't have to settle if we aren't happy- it's just that BOTH partners need to want to change and need to address the fact that there is a necessity for a change. Not even sure what my point is exactly, but thought I"d share


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

There is a simple thing you can do right now that will address all of your problems. Exercise. No more excuses.

Regular exercise will help with your mental state. The more you do it the better you will feel. 

Exercise will help with your self esteem issues. You will look better and feel better. When you are working out hard you will become reluctant to put crap food in your body. Once you start down the better diet path you will compound your gains.

Exercise will boost your sex drive.

Finally, exercise is something that you and your husband can do TOGETHER. You will share something healthy, that boosts your mental state, makes you look better and makes you horny.

Start working out together this week.


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> It makes me CRAZY when people say to not focus on the orgasm. When you've been having sex for 20+ years and not having orgasms - hello, I've not been focused on it at all. And it got me 20 years of orgasm-less sex. Enough of that! I want the freaking orgasms. I never want to have sex again without one.


I hear you Scarlett...but I'm just saying, what about the rest of the act? :scratchhead:

For women who think that if they don't have easy orgasms they are broken and then try and try and try and ONLY focus on getting that damn orgasm...this can end up like a death sentence to enjoying the act itself.

What about the closeness and intimacy?

What about the foreplay?

What about the kissing when you're not about to have sex?

Is the goal of sex always an orgasm?

I understand your situation but even in your case I'm left wondering if you enjoy any other part of sex, because you've never talked about any other part of sex, except a few times when I've asked you direct questions about it.

And even your orgasms sound fraught with anxiety, just trying to reach them.

This is what I mean...if this is the result of focusing on orgasms, I still don't think it is a happy ending.

There's so much more people are missing out on if that's all they are in it for.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I think the difference is when you CAN reach orgasm but your partner has communicated, in one form or another, that your orgasm is too much work. So then you try to have a fast orgasm so that you're not so high maintenance which, obviously, backfires on you.

It is the total lack of general eroticism and desire in their sex lives that makes their orgasms so elusive. If they felt at ease, if they didn't worry that the orgasm they want wasn't going to be too much effort, sex would be easy breezy fun, the way it's supposed to be. 

Instead it has turned into a silent battle ground. "Is he think I'm taking too long? Is he upset I'm not getting there yet? Damn why he did he just make that noise, is he bored with me? Why the hell do I even bother I get nothing out of this but anxiety!" <---This is KAG

And then you get mad! You think to yourself, "I don't give a damn how much effor this takes, I want an orgasm dammit!" <-- this is Miss Scarlett.

Both of these woman can orgasm but both of these women have emotionally repressed husband's who, through their silence, communicate a distinct lack of care and concern about their wives orgasms.

Both of these women have to get out of their heads, plop their pretty lady bits onto their husbands laps, hand him the coconut oil and say, "do me hon!"


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I think the difference is when you CAN reach orgasm but your partner has communicated, in one form or another, that your orgasm is too much work. So then you try to have a fast orgasm so that you're not so high maintenance which, obviously, backfires on you.


Too much work?!!??!! Sex is FUN. Not just the destination but the journey. 



> It is the total lack of general eroticism and desire in their sex lives that makes their orgasms so elusive. If they felt at ease, if they didn't worry that the orgasm they want wasn't going to be too much effort, sex would be easy breezy fun, the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> Instead it has turned into a silent battle ground. "Is he think I'm taking too long? Is he upset I'm not getting there yet? Damn why he did he just make that noise, is he bored with me? Why the hell do I even bother I get nothing out of this but anxiety!" <---This is KAG
> 
> ...


Male or female, once performance gets up in your head, it is a killer.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening anon pink
My wife often worries that she is "taking to long". Nothing I can say seems to convince here that I ENJOY pleasing her - its not a race. There is no time limit, and as you say an orgasm is NOT the entire point of lovemaking . Its a good thing, but its not as if everything else is just to get you there.




Anon Pink said:


> I think the difference is when you CAN reach orgasm but your partner has communicated, in one form or another, that your orgasm is too much work. So then you try to have a fast orgasm so that you're not so high maintenance which, obviously, backfires on you.
> 
> It is the total lack of general eroticism and desire in their sex lives that makes their orgasms so elusive. If they felt at ease, if they didn't worry that the orgasm they want wasn't going to be too much effort, sex would be easy breezy fun, the way it's supposed to be.
> 
> ...


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening anon pink
> My wife often worries that she is "taking to long". Nothing I can say seems to convince here that I ENJOY pleasing her - its not a race. There is no time limit, and as you say an orgasm is NOT the entire point of lovemaking . Its a good thing, but its not as if everything else is just to get you there.


I have to believe her difficulty in reaching orgasm plays a part in her LD, richard. She just doesn't get the same thing out of sex that you do, which is why she isn't as interested in it.

While I agree there is a lot more to the journey than the orgasm, a lifetime of difficult to achieve orgasms can dampen anyone's drive. Just imagine if you only had an orgasm once in a blue moon, but were expected to have sex frequently anyway.


----------



## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good eveining norajane
just saw this post from a few days ago.

She almost always does have an orgasm, it just sometimes takes a while and she thinks I'm getting frustrated (I'm not - I enjoy paying her attention). 

We have a vibrator and toy that will pretty much always work for her - but we try to have more variety. She doesn't communicate well though, so i don't always know when she is starting to get frustrated and wants me to do something quick. 





norajane said:


> I have to believe her difficulty in reaching orgasm plays a part in her LD, richard. She just doesn't get the same thing out of sex that you do, which is why she isn't as interested in it.
> 
> While I agree there is a lot more to the journey than the orgasm, a lifetime of difficult to achieve orgasms can dampen anyone's drive. Just imagine if you only had an orgasm once in a blue moon, but were expected to have sex frequently anyway.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I just need to vent a bit. I let the thread go because I wasn't sure what else I had to add. 

But here's a relatively common reason why our sex life isn't as good as it could be. 

I've been in the mood since three days ago and we've been missing each other. Three days ago our son got sick and started throwing up/high fever. That whole day was spent taking care of him. By night fall I did not feel well myself and was exhausted so it was not the time. 

Next morning he had plans to be out of the house to do some work. He was gone most of the day. I had to run all of our errands to make up for our lost day on Sat when son was sick. Had to move slower than usual because son still wasn't feeling well, but didn't have an alternative babysitter for him so he still had to come along. The day was spent away from H with me taking care of the kids and getting the errands and chores done. By the time he came home we were both tired so forget it. I was annoyed at having lost my entire weekend (not his fault).

Monday morning I woke up and felt great. It's a new week forget about the weekend that was crummy. I get up earlier than my H and leave for work before he does, but we are both on a tight schedule in the morning. Before we got out of bed I told him maybe we could go in late, have some fun in bed before we woke the kids up. He said he couldn't be late to work, he had to take care of some things first thing this morning. I understood so I just got up and went to work myself. Thought about him during the day and sent him a couple mildly flirty texts (we do not communicate except for emergency when working so this is unusual). I asked him if he would have a chance to cut out of work early this afternoon to meet me at home for some alone time before the kids came home from school. He said he couldn't because he had a meeting. (I get it, was disappointed but it was understandable he couldn't just leave with a commitment like that.) I said, why don't you come home early tonight and we will get the kids in bed early to have some time together. 

I thought he responded he was in board with that plan. 

I started the whole nightly routine with the kids before he comes home as usual. Homework, friends over, laundry, cooking dinner, yard work. I have a good 3-4 hrs with the kids before he gets home on an average day because I work on such an early schedule. I went outside to try to cut the grass before he got home (we share this chore) and the stupid lawnmower wouldn't start so I got fed up and said forget it. I texted him about the lawnmower and told him i didnt want to do anything to it in fear i would make it worse and he said he'd look at it when he got home tonight. 

I timed dinner so it would get into the table right when he got home so we could eat together. 

7pm comes. He's not here. 730 comes, I call him and he doesn't answer. I feed the kids and get them in the bath. 750 he responds by text and said he's on his way home. No explanation given. He comes in at 845. I am so mad that he didn't call me to tell me what was going on. I was about to pull kids out of the bath and throw them in the car to go looking for him thinking he was dead. He said he told me he was working late tonight. (??) He was genuinely shocked that I was so angry when he got home. 

He pulled out his phone and we went over our text exchange. I suppose we miscommunicated. 

I am still mad that I was looking forward to having a relaxing evening with him and then it didn't happen. I am so done with the idea of sex now and don't even want to sit next to him. I am tired from dealing with kids and my own job and running the house all day. It's petty but I am pissed I have to wait yet another day to get the lawnmower looked at because I was going to cut the grass in a time window I have from work tomorrow. I don't know how to repair a lawnmower on my own. 

I think if I was HD, I'd want sex no matter what. There is literally nothing he could do right now to bring that desire back. I am not fighting with him and I see our miscommunication today but I am sorely disappointed and he seems bewildered why we aren't having a romantic time right now when I just got the kids in bed. I am sitting here on my phone instead and he is cleaning the kitchen. I can't get those feelings back now. They are gone for tonight. When something throws me off the idea of sex, I've got to have at least a night to get over it before I can get it back.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I get what you are saying, kag. That would put me off for sure - you put such an effort into making it a nice, romantic evening. I think just having a high sex drive is different than being thoughtful and romantic. That takes effort and it hurts more when things get messed up - even if it wasn't necessarily intentional. So you exhausted your effort trying to do this and now you have little else to give, so need some time to recoup?


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

richardsharpe said:


> Good eveining norajane
> just saw this post from a few days ago.
> 
> She almost always does have an orgasm, it just sometimes takes a while and *she thinks I'm getting frustrated* *(I'm not *- I enjoy paying her attention).


That might be hard for her to believe or to internalize. I'm not speaking for all women who take a while to orgasm, but when I was younger, I thought there was something wrong with me, like I was broken. "If he can climax in 5 minutes, what's wrong with me?!" That led to me not asking or expecting the guy to "make it work" or for him to take pleasure in it. 

I still catch myself falling into that thought pattern sometimes during oral, and of course, that makes it harder to enjoy the journey. So if these kinds of thoughts are running through her head during sex, sex can feel less enjoyable and more stressful.

She might also be projecting. If SHE feels frustrated by how long she is taking, she believes you must be, too.



> We have a vibrator and toy that will pretty much always work for her - but we try to have more variety. She doesn't communicate well though, so i don't always know *when she is starting to get frustrated *and wants me to do something quick.


Now I'm wondering if she is experiencing too much frustration during sex to enjoy the journey as much as you do. Frustration at how long it's taking her, anxiety that you might be getting frustrated, and probably frustrated she can't tell you what would help.

I wish I knew how to help.


----------



## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I hear you Scarlett...but I'm just saying, what about the rest of the act? :scratchhead:
> 
> For women who think that if they don't have easy orgasms they are broken and then try and try and try and ONLY focus on getting that damn orgasm...this can end up like a death sentence to enjoying the act itself.
> 
> ...


Sorry for the threadjack, I didn't see this till just now. 

I think that I am still dealing with a lot of repressed anger from DH and my issues. It reminds me a lot of when I left the religion I was raised in. It was a big deal. Every time I went to the internet and read anything about this religion - specifically problems people were having with this religion that they were posting on message boards - I flew into a rage or dissolved into tears. I remember thinking there would never be a time in my life that I did not react this way or escape the anger it stirred up to remember the injustices. 

However, it did. I feel over it now. I don't get angry, the hurt is enough removed that I can discuss it without getting emotional. 

I think the Gloria Steinem quote - "The truth shall set you free. But first it will piss you off" - is true for me. I still am dealing with a lot of anger over the earlier part of my sex life. I am still dealing with grief for what I could have had if I would have said something 20 years ago, 15 years ago, what kind of person am I that I couldn't even say anything, let all that time go by? How can I be 45 years old and just be tapping into my sexual power in this very miniscule way that I am? 

So yes, I think I'm going to continue to sound bitter and angry for a while. When I come to this board and I read stories from other women which echo my own I get very angry, the rage and grief well up inside me. 

I do think eventually I will reach the place I want to be, where there is no anger or grief and I can just enjoy being with dh without having to be on my guard. My relationship with him has changed a lot in the last 6 months, especially, and it continues to change. I'm happy with the progress and happy with the sex. 

However, yes, I am still dealing with the feelings that bubble up. I'm not trying to live in the past but after years and decades of pushing those feelings down they are coming up now that the lid is off. 

(sorry again for the threadjack)


----------



## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Scarlett, I would love it if you brought us up to date on your own thread...we need the scoop! We care!

If you do I would reply to your above post but don't want to further thread jack.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,

This post is incredibly helpful. I'd break it down for him like this:
- I initiate in the morning - you reject due to schedule conflict. This is perfectly ok - though in an ideal world the way the recipient responds is: 

Wish I could, can't be late this morning. Can we connect tonight?

- I initiate a second time suggesting an afternoon connection. Now here I'm not so ok with a second rejection without a counter proposal. But that's life. 

- I then initiate a third time suggesting tonight. Which you accept. 

Here's the deal, by the third initiation I've put myself pretty far out on a branch of 'the tree of vulnerability'. So when you work late without giving me a heads up AND an apology - it's painful. And pain typically translates quickly to anger. 







kag123 said:


> I just need to vent a bit. I let the thread go because I wasn't sure what else I had to add.
> 
> But here's a relatively common reason why our sex life isn't as good as it could be.
> 
> ...


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

kag123 said:


> I just need to vent a bit. I let the thread go because I wasn't sure what else I had to add.
> 
> But here's a relatively common reason why our sex life isn't as good as it could be.
> 
> ...



Kag, you're obviously trying and you H is oblivious.

Does he ever initiate himself? If not, why not?


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

he was working, not having fun... that was miscommunication... is he always like that?


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

He doesn't initiate himself. I don't know why. He is always there and willing whenever I want him, so he just waits for me to say -hey let's do this. I have always supposed it's because he knows he has a higher drive than me and that I will come looking for him when I want it. He is overly sensitive to asking for what he wants. Afraid of rejection I guess. If you eliminate the approach for sex there can therefore be no rejection. 

He can be dense. He means well he just has no real relationship skills and it shows. I was his first real relationship and it shows. He dated other girls before me but nothing that lasted more than a few months here or there. 

My mood is gone now and probably will be till my next cycle. I am very tied to my cycles and there's usually only a window of a few days in the middle of it where I spark with spontaneous desire. I can't bring the spontaneous desire back even when I try. It must be hormone related. As I get older the disparity between the highs and lows in my cycle is getting deeper. I am not on any hormonal BC but have considered using it again just to level things out; but it's the fear of losing even those few days in the middle where I feel some desire that has me scared to go on BC. 

It has been rougher than usual lately because my H has been studying for some professional licensing exams that he's been taking over the last 18 months. It's a series of 7 tests and each one takes about 6-12 weeks of intense preparation. My H is more intense than most with the studying and preparation. He won't feel comfortably prepared unless he can recite the 500 pages of material and all of the associated formulas and case studies backwards and forwards. (I wish I were exaggerating but I am dead serious.) It's both something I admire about him (his dedication and drive to succeed) and hate (he applies himself to the studies at the forsaking of all else). It's getting close to exam time and for the last 3 weeks he has been working his regular job and then gone late into the night and most of the weekends to study. We are just very different that way. I was an A/B/C student in college. Never failed but was happy with a C at times and didn't care much about seeking perfection. He was a straight A honors student his whole life and doesn't accept anything less. Even in a professional capacity he seeks perfection in everything. It is both a blessing and a curse...but it's gotten him a lot of praise at work. 

The day our son was sick he was supposed to be studying all day. Unfortunately my son got sick in the middle of a series of eye appointments I had made for the three of us. He threw up all over their waiting room. I had one kid in the exam room already having their appt, myself in another room having my eyes dilated and my son in the waiting room throwing up. I left my appt to try to be with my son but due to my condition I couldn't handle it on my own. I couodnt see at all, they had literally just put that devil solution in my eyes. I called my H and asked him to come to the office to get our son. He did and my daughter and I continued our appts but that threw a wrench in his plans that day. My eyes were messed up for most of the morning after that. I've never had my eyes dilated before but I don't know if I had a bad reaction or what. It took hours before I could see again. I asked my H to stay home that day with us to help with our son because he needed care and I couldn't do it alone when I couldn't see. He stayed with us but I think it irritated him greatly to have the distraction. I think he may still be angry about being put out that day and is holding it against me, but when confronted he will say that's not how he feels at all. It was just a really bad day. My son was very sick and had a very sudden high fever almost to the point of delirium. I was very close to taking him to the ER but he was able to get some meds down and bring his fever down. He woke up the next day with no fever at all. So strange. 

The good thing is that H and I have some space from each other for the next week until his exam comes. He's in the final stretch now for this particular exam and that means he will be almost completely MIA until the exam is over. Everything should blow over by then.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

One more thing to add. I have trouble having sex when I am angry over an issue with him. Even if my own physical desire is there I will avoid sex with him, because it seems that he equates sex with "she must be over whatever is bothering her". I feel he does not take me seriously if I have sex with him and any issue is present in our marraige. He will take the sex and think everything is gloriously fine again afterwards. I avoid sex unless everything is 100% fine in the relationship for that reason.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I see a lot of hope in your sitch Kag. You H sounds like a dedicated husband and father, who simply failed to take the courses on HOW to be a dedicated husband and father.

Communication, unspoken expectations, and a lack of agreement are keeping you two from truly connecting.

Ask him these questions.

-How often would you like to have sex, ideally?
-How often do you need to have sex to not feel frustrated or rejected?

Then explain to him how your cycle puts your spontaneous desire high during these day, low during these days, and "don't even think about it" during these other days. If possible, Mark it on a calendar for him. Try to get him to practice initiating during the high spontaneous days, days when you want sex and are unlikely to reject him. Discuss ways you want him to approach you, to warm you up before the actual sexual touching begins.

I think your H just really lacks sexual confidence. With you giving him days and ways to be successful, that confidence will build.
You could also do things to let him know you want him to initiate sex that night. You could be pretty blunt and tell him in the morning that you want him to flirt with you all day, make passes at you when he gets home, and then you prance around in something sexy while getting ready for bed.

I don't think you have low desire. I think you have the burden on maintaining your sex life on your own. I think if your H did and said things that kept your fire burning, your desire would be much higher.

You and your H really need to talk more openly about sex, what turns you on, what makes you desire him outside of those high days, how daily frustration kills your desire, ways he might help you get, back in the mood, things you want him to do to help you be in the mood.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

kag123 said:


> One more thing to add. I have trouble having sex when I am angry over an issue with him. Even if my own physical desire is there I will avoid sex with him, because it seems that he equates sex with "she must be over whatever is bothering her". I feel he does not take me seriously if I have sex with him and any issue is present in our marraige. He will take the sex and think everything is gloriously fine again afterwards. I avoid sex unless everything is 100% fine in the relationship for that reason.


You're probably right. I have a very high drive and even though I was very angry at my H, we still had sex frequently. I know that made him think the same you said above. But at the same time, because he was getting sex, he was more likely to try rather than feel left out in the cold.

You just hop out of bed and be your saucy self and remind him, "BTW, I'm still mad about.... So don't think that is smoothed over!"


----------



## LaundryMan (Mar 17, 2015)

Hi kag123...I wish I had found this thread sooner but I've been away from TAM the last week or so. I'd like to say that I can sympathize with your situation because I'm like the male version of you. I've always had little desire, which I blame on a combination of upbringing and personality. For me it's also been worsened by medication. It's caused trouble in my marriage and my other relationships.

My first piece of advice is to reconsider the medication you're taking. How many have you tried? I've been on almost every common antidepressant for some length of time. The SSRI's (Celexa, Lexapro, Prozac, Paxil, and especially Zoloft) were the very worst in my experience as far as totally killing interest. When I was on Zoloft I couldn't climax, and I'm a male for crying out loud. Other drugs were better, at least for me. Unfortunately, like you said in your OP, you have to weigh the side effects against how not being on anything effects your life. In my case, I've done what you did and accepted some sexual dysfunction in exchange for being able to hold down a job and a life. But don't cave in to that until you've tried every psychiatric possibility.

Like you, I also have no interest in sex if I'm upset, but for me it's because I don't like to feel like I'm being pandered to. I've always felt that people think that because I'm a man, sex will take my mind off anything. So women who have tried to have sex with me when I'm in a bad mood or distressed have always come across to me like they're trying to distract me, like giving a lollipop to a crying child. Even if that wasn't their intention, it always came off like that to me. 

I can also sympathize with your husband in that I don't talk very much, because sometimes it doesn't occur to me to bring things up. I also don't initiate sex very much (am working on that), and I have to suggest that one reason your husband may not do this isn't fear of rejection so much as fear of being misinterpreted (that is, afraid he's pushing you to do something you dislike). This has been a huge problem for me because thanks to my upbringing I had always thought all women dislike sex under all conditions, and therefore that any efforts to ask for sex would at best be irritating. I don't know how common this kind of thinking is, but something similar might be going on with your H. You should ask him point-blank if he's afraid of troubling or hurting you. At least that would eliminate a possibility.

I think there's hope for you guys. You seem to be on the same page much better than most couples I've read about in this forum.


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Have you considered this perspective:

You (by your own admission) are only interested in sex a few days a month. 

In addition, if something happens that makes you angry, you lose interest.

In addition, you admit to feeling unsexy due to body issues.

In addition, you mention that you are on SSRIs which are known to reduce libido.

....And after showing all of this self awareness, you seem to be wondering why your husband never initiates with you

Also, you are confused and hurt when you try to hint that you are interested in him one day and he does not take the bait.

Have you tried to imagine your husband's perspective?

How likely is it (from his point of view) that any effort on his part is going to be met with a "not interested" from you?

Why would he assume on any particular day that you are interested when 27 out of 30 days per month you are not?

Do you think you may have TRAINED him to expect that you are never interested?

I am not trying to attack you-- it's just perplexing to me how you can seem so self aware on one level and then be surprised by your husband's behavior on another level.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> Have you considered this perspective:
> 
> You (by your own admission) are only interested in sex a few days a month.
> 
> ...


I would agree with you except that he has always been this way, since day 1 and we've been together for 10 years. (Married 7...) All of my issues with depression, libido, etc have only arisen in the last 4 years or so. 

I don't blame him tho. His lack of initiation is not my primary complaint. In some ways I am grateful for it because it takes the pressure off of me when I am not in the mood. I don't bring it up to him or ask him to initiate more for that reason. 

I was highlighting his lack of initiation because it shows how little we communicate. Any attempt by me to have a frank discussion about sex (How often he ideally wants it, for example) is met with a wall of "Why are you asking me this?" or "I don't know" then dropping it. Same result if I try to find out what he likes or doesn't like, discuss anything really. 

One of MY problems is that I have such trouble Oing that I really don't know what to tell him to do (how can you give instructions when it seems like anything you try nothing works??). What I currently want is some passion and to feel desired. That's one of those things where you can't ask for it, then it feels forced. You want him to want you. Not just sexually, I just want to feel like I am needed and worth something to him. That's not a physical display to me. I want him to show me with actions that he enjoys spending time with me and values me.


----------



## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Time to drill down to the really cold hard facts.

How important is sex to you? So important that when it is not happening, it colors your entire life (or more likely, drains all the color from your life)? So important that when it isn't working, your H's impressive effort to be a good provider are relatively meaningless to you?

As you have noted, regular sex means making sex a priority over other things on your schedule. I think you should start thinking about scheduling sex. Sounds like your H has a demanding job (most are, these days) and he is dedicated to it (which I view as admirable). Problem is, that means he is not going to be available on a last minute basis for spontaneous sex. If you want to have confidence that sex is going to occur, you need to get yourself onto his calendar. If you want him to stay home some morning after the kids have gone to school so you guys can have together time, you have to tell him far enough in advance so he doesn't book any meetings and doesn't plan that slot for accomplishing a time sensitive task.

When Saturday went off course and that required your H to devote Sunday to studying for his exam, Saturday night was the time to plan out the week. "I am getting horny and I am going to be cranky if we don't have sex in the next few days. What day and time works for you?" Might not be until Wednesday or Thursday. But at least you would know that it was going to happen and you would not keep asking only to be rejected.

And then be appreciative no matter how the session goes. Maybe you don't O on Wednesday. Smile and say "thanks for being here for me, let's try again Sunday morning."


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

How important is sex to me > honestly, not very. If I wasn't married I would be fine with taking care of my own needs and maybe finding a one night stand now and then. 

I started this thread because I wanted to share the perspective of what it's like to be the LD spouse. 

I like sex, it's fine. I like ice cream more on some days. I like sleep even more than I like sex. I have more sex than I actually desire on my own because I feel an obligation to keep our marraige going and I assume (and have never heard otherwise) that sex is important to him. 

Scheduled sex is OK. We did that for awhile and often that's what it boils down to. I don't blame him for not being available for a midday romp. It is rare that I am available either. After all, I also work (1.5 hrs from home) and have the same level of commitment and career that he does. I'm no stranger to deadlines and meetings. It was a shame we couldn't steal away that day...but NBD. 

I have an issue with keeping my sexual momentum going. I want it when I want it, and if it doesn't happen, the moment is gone and isn't coming back no matter what I do. Scheduled sex doesn't leave a lot of room to take advantage of that fact. Not his fault and not blaming him at all. Just saying it's different to be LD. Desire isn't always present in my life. At times not only is there no desire, there is genuine repulsion at the thought of being intimately touched. (Not by him, in a general sense.)


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,

Kind of the same here in a sense. 

M2 and I have always either been: 
- in harmony or 
- in conflict

There is no in between. Mostly in harmony. But when we are 'in conflict' all interaction is limited until the conflict is resolved to both our satisfaction. That includes 'no physical contact'. Hard to have sex without contact....



QUOTE=kag123;12438034]One more thing to add. I have trouble having sex when I am angry over an issue with him. Even if my own physical desire is there I will avoid sex with him, because it seems that he equates sex with "she must be over whatever is bothering her". I feel he does not take me seriously if I have sex with him and any issue is present in our marraige. He will take the sex and think everything is gloriously fine again afterwards. I avoid sex unless everything is 100% fine in the relationship for that reason.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

kag123 said:


> I want it when I want it, and if it doesn't happen, the moment is gone and isn't coming back no matter what I do. Scheduled sex doesn't leave a lot of room to take advantage of that fact. Not his fault and not blaming him at all. Just saying it's different to be LD. Desire isn't always present in my life. At times not only is there no desire, there is genuine repulsion at the thought of being intimately touched. (Not by him, in a general sense.)


I can't really imagine what it is like to be LD, so thanks for sharing your perspective.

I would suggest though that there are lots of aspects of relationships that are not the first choice of individuals in them but are done because there is value in fostering the relationship.

there are also things people do for themselves that are unpleasant initially but have positive effects. Exercise for example- most people have had the experience of not really feeling like working out or even being sore and actively not wanting to exercise, then they do it and feel great afterward. Over time you learn to have these feelings of reluctance less and less because you grow to mentally associate exercise with pleasure. It does not happen immediately though and there is a ramp up period.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Anon1111 said:


> Have you considered this perspective:
> 
> You (by your own admission) are only interested in sex a few days a month.
> 
> ...


This is my wife... I stopped initiating, because it's a riddle to me... on the other hand, I understand she has no desire (depression, OCD, SRRIs), so it's difficult for her to "get me"... sex had to be "spontaneous", but it never happened because she never felt the urge, or maybe she did for 5 seconds at 2 'o clock at night, when I was asleep. 

So, now we are back to scheduled sex. She needs to decide she wants sex... the thing is, she rarely decides... 

I've given up, to be honest. I understand she is not well, so I don't pester her any more. Sex is on her terms, if and when she wants it... fine by me. The alternative is to have a miserable life. You might think your husband is this and that but, if you don't feel the urge, you don't understand how damaging for him this is...

For me, it's one of those things... I'll probably be leaving when we'll be childless... not that I particularly want to, but there is no light at the end of the tunnel.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I am back. Keeping this on a thread I've already started since it's easier than making a new one. I need to get some things off my mind, most are not sex related even though this originated as a thread on that topic. 

It's been two months on this new medication that was supposed to be the answer to my LD problems. I have hit my wall and need to get off this med before I seriously do something to harm myself. I went into this new med with such high hopes and instead I feel worse than I've felt since the time before I went on SSRI. I have had serious suicidal thoughts. No actions but a serious detachment from reality. It's hard to admit that's what it is. If you've never suffered from mental illness it's impossible to explain what it feels like to have these delusions that feel so real and feel like rational thinking but are not. Many times I rationalize my poor thoughts and destructive thoughts as being "normal" due to a bad day or whatever. It takes me a lot to realize that other "normal" people don't live in the mental abyss that I do because of simple bad days and that what I deal with is way more than that. 

The sex issue has not improved. If anything it has gotten worse as my mental state deteriorates. I have never hated myself more than I do right now and I have never felt so much peace with the thoughts of just vanishing off the face of the earth. I daydream of divorce. I spend time researching divorce laws in my state and updating my beneficiary and life insurance info. Plan out in my head what my family would be doing if I was gone. I dream of leaving my kids and my husband behind because they'd be better off. I dream of quitting my job and just not showing up anymore. I've called out more than I have in the last several years in the past two months and have spent days in bed. 

To be clear I have not done any of those things. I have moments of clarity here and there where I see my behavior for what it is. Crazy. But when you're in it, you can't see your way out. 

My H seems to either be blissfully unaware of my struggle or just waiting for the storm to pass. He does not say anything to me when I am like this and distances himself from me emotionally more than he usually does. He's probably terrified, but from my destructive mental state I see it as proof he doesn't care if I am around or not. His reaction is probably his best course of action for his own sanity. But it hurts. I feel like I need a person to pull me up and out of this hole sometimes when they see me slipping. I told him in a rare shared moment of despair that I need his help. I need him to keep a close eye on me and when he sees me withdrawing and acting strange I need him to be forceful with me and shake me out of it. For example if he sees me missing a lot of work. That should be a red flag to him that something is not right. He doesn't see me sick or throwing up or with a fever, so if I am staying in bed all day and missing work for no apparent reason it's a good chance I am struggling. I told him he needs to confront me, he needs to yell at me, threaten to commit me, do something at least. I tried to share with him what it feels like to think suicide is a good option and I got a blank stare in return. I've never actually tried to harm myself and don't think I ever would. My kids are what keep me here. I couldn't break their hearts like that. They would never understand. I feel like it's an unreasonable burden to be expected to live with someone like me and I immediately regretted asking my H to help me like I did. I don't think he's capable of doing what I asked him to do and perhaps I am being unfair. I feel like I need a babysitter but I am the mom and I am the only person in the family who does not have anyone to take care of ME.

I have a doc appt tomorrow. I will have to tell her these meds are not working and that I need to switch back to my old pills and go back to my old problems. The old pills keep me on an even keel but with that comes sluggishness and numbness of emotion. I get tired of feeling numb but now I remember why I chose numb over gut wrenching pain. I just can't win. I'm frustrated and I know my H doesn't understand. I feel like he really got a bad deal marrying me sometimes. 

Right now the sex issues remain. In fact they've gotten worse in the last two months than they've been in a long while. Keeping myself functioning is my top priority over sex right now. It's not fair to him when he is incapable of understanding what this is like. I want so desperately to be normal!

I have to make a decision of what I want to do for my next course of action...do I go back on my original meds (the only ones that ever worked for me after trying everything else on the market), or do I try to taper off of them completely to try to find my baseline again? I feel like I can't possibly feel worse than I do right now, so maybe it's time to come off of them. I am scared though and my fear is what makes me want to go back on them. 

Thanks for listening. Not quite sure what to do from here.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,
You are fighting some very bad - pharmaceutically induced - biochemistry. 

The meds you are on now are hurting you. Glad you are seeing your doctor ASAP to get a strategy for safely tapering off or switching. 

Sad to say your H is not a good safety net. You do need at least one reliable friend/responsible adult who will help you until you get to a good place. 

For now - stop worrying about sex. And stop worrying about your H. Focus on you. 





kag123 said:


> I am back. Keeping this on a thread I've already started since it's easier than making a new one. I need to get some things off my mind, most are not sex related even though this originated as a thread on that topic.
> 
> It's been two months on this new medication that was supposed to be the answer to my LD problems. I have hit my wall and need to get off this med before I seriously do something to harm myself. I went into this new med with such high hopes and instead I feel worse than I've felt since the time before I went on SSRI. I have had serious suicidal thoughts. No actions but a serious detachment from reality. It's hard to admit that's what it is. If you've never suffered from mental illness it's impossible to explain what it feels like to have these delusions that feel so real and feel like rational thinking but are not. Many times I rationalize my poor thoughts and destructive thoughts as being "normal" due to a bad day or whatever. It takes me a lot to realize that other "normal" people don't live in the mental abyss that I do because of simple bad days and that what I deal with is way more than that.
> 
> ...


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks. I don't really have anyone else in my life that I feel comfortable sharing this side of myself with except for my doctor and my H. Even with H the only thing I share is a fraction of what I really have going through my mind and only because he is around me 24/7 so he sees me at my worst. I avoid all interaction with other friends and coworkers and family as much as possible when I am like this. It's too difficult to try to socialize even to reach out right now. I'm so frustrated at his lack of reaction.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

K,
Did the doc help you?

Are you going to the gym every day?




kag123 said:


> Thanks. I don't really have anyone else in my life that I feel comfortable sharing this side of myself with except for my doctor and my H. Even with H the only thing I share is a fraction of what I really have going through my mind and only because he is around me 24/7 so he sees me at my worst. I avoid all interaction with other friends and coworkers and family as much as possible when I am like this. It's too difficult to try to socialize even to reach out right now. I'm so frustrated at his lack of reaction.


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thank you for checking on me.

I went into the doc and I am stopping the current medication as of today. Unfortunately with these things you can't just stop cold turkey. I talked to her about tapering off of meds completely to get away from the side effects because it seems like they all have them. She then asked me a series of difficult questions about my mental state and quickly told me she strongly feels I should NOT go off meds completely at this time. She said the depression and suicidal thoughts will strengthen during the tapering process and that you shouldn't even consider going unmedicated in general if you feel that way before you start. I have to see her again in one month for another follow up. 

So my choice was to switch back to the old meds and accept the same side effects (zero libido, sluggishness, apathy) or switch to trying yet another. She sold me on trying another. I'm starting a new med today. Hoping that it will be better than the one I just came off of. She said I need to give it another 4 weeks on the new med before deciding. 

I exercise in some form everyday. Whether it's walking/jogging, playing softball with my kids or doing heavy yard work. Yesterday I was in the yard breaking up rocks with a pick axe and digging a hole to plant a tree. We are previewing a few gyms this weekend to see if we like any of them enough to join. So far even spending tons of time outside and staying active doesn't seem to help me feel better.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

K,

Some meds can cause vitamin/mineral deficiencies which can actually harm your mental health. 

Can you get a blood test where they check all your vitamin and mineral levels? 

In the meantime do you take a multivitamin daily? 

I'm not a doc but I know that a shortage of certain vitamins and or minerals can harm your mental state. 

Google it. 





kag123 said:


> Thank you for checking on me.
> 
> I went into the doc and I am stopping the current medication as of today. Unfortunately with these things you can't just stop cold turkey. I talked to her about tapering off of meds completely to get away from the side effects because it seems like they all have them. She then asked me a series of difficult questions about my mental state and quickly told me she strongly feels I should NOT go off meds completely at this time. She said the depression and suicidal thoughts will strengthen during the tapering process and that you shouldn't even consider going unmedicated in general if you feel that way before you start. I have to see her again in one month for another follow up.
> 
> ...


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I get full blood panels along with these monthly or bi-monthly appts because of switching meds (otherwise my baseline blood work is every 6 Mos). All my blood levels check out fine. Doc thinks it's just me...just one of those people with messed up brain chemistry that needs meds I suppose.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

kag123 said:


> I get full blood panels along with these monthly or bi-monthly appts because of switching meds (otherwise my baseline blood work is every 6 Mos). All my blood levels check out fine. Doc thinks it's just me...just one of those people with messed up brain chemistry that needs meds I suppose.


My wife is the same... she takes ADs and has zero libido... I commend you for trying new things but, at the end of the day, your mental state is the most important thing...


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'm sorry to hear there are others going through this. I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the other side of this, witnessing your wife with this disease and not fully understanding what it's like. My husband cannot understand what it feels like and I get that but it makes it hard to open up to him about it. 

I'm usually positively influenced by the spring time and the warm weather and the longer days and time spent outdoors. I'm disappointed that this year I feel nothing. Usually a good dose of vitamin D (a day in the sun) can help lift my moods but it's not working this year. I feel like I am missing out on a lot of the best parts of life a lot of the time. All those simple pleasures do nothing for me.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

kag123 said:


> I'm sorry to hear there are others going through this. I can't imagine what it must be like to be on the other side of this, witnessing your wife with this disease and not fully understanding what it's like. My husband cannot understand what it feels like and I get that but it makes it hard to open up to him about it.


well, my wife could have fixed it with some therapy... she has OCD (recurrent catastrophic invasive thoughts)... sure, long and difficult, but she has chosen not to pursue this avenue... so, she swallow pills... it's taken me a few years to accept it, but at the end of the day it's her life and she has every right to manage it as she wishes... of course, it's destroyed our marriage, but it's out of my hands...

and yes, I didn't get it either... or, I didn't get the scale of it, because she never communicated with me. I guess she was engrossed in her own reality... so, the distance grew bigger and bigger...

Your position seems rather different, though. Having said that, I have some sympathy for your husband... a difficult position to be in too...


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> well, my wife could have fixed it with some therapy... she has OCD (recurrent catastrophic invasive thoughts)... sure, long and difficult, but she has chosen not to pursue this avenue... so, she swallow pills... it's taken me a few years to accept it, but at the end of the day it's her life and she has every right to manage it as she wishes... of course, it's destroyed our marriage, but it's out of my hands...
> 
> and yes, I didn't get it either... or, I didn't get the scale of it, because she never communicated with me. I guess she was engrossed in her own reality... so, the distance grew bigger and bigger...
> 
> Your position seems rather different, though. Having said that, I have some sympathy for your husband... a difficult position to be in too...


Since you seem to be in a similar position, hope you won't mind if I ask you some questions. 

From your post above, do you think that your wife is seeking the wrong treatment? If yes, why do you feel that way? Do you think her medication is not necessary? 

What is it like from your point of view to live with her?


----------



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Today has been especially bad for me. I'm switching meds now and I can feel myself coming unglued a bit. What I would really like to do right now is go somewhere far away by myself and be in solitude until this passes me and I am able to stabilize myself. External stimulus is very difficult for me right now and I am feeling very overwhelmed. 

I am a mother and a wife and I have a full time job so I don't get to pause my life, walk away to collect myself, and come back when I am ready. There are no breaks. Not even 10 minute breaks to use the bathroom. The only peace is when sleeping. It is particularly painful to wake up in the morning and face another long day before I can go back to bed again. I count the day in the number of hours until it is over and everyone else is occupied and I can be left alone. 

We went to visit gyms this morning. It did not go well. I knew my H was not going to be happy about the prices (truly only a full service gym works for us because we need good childcare and kids amenities to use it...a $10/month equipment only gym isn't going to work). He suffered sticker shock. Truthfully so did i, but I feel a bit more like the price is worth it considering I am grasping at straws right now to help myself out of a deep hole. I know he doesn't see that and he cannot understand it either. 

We went to 3, and all 3 were nice but all around the same price and commitment. He keeps saying it's not fair to spend a big amount of money on something he won't get to use as much as me and the kids. He works a different schedule and wouldn't be able to go with us. The gyms we are looking at are convenient to our house but not to his office so he would not have the option to go during his lunch break for example. I get it. I can't fix that problem for him. He doesn't think it's worth it if he's not directly benefitting. I don't have the stamina right now to try to convince him. I am just letting it go. I have no fight left in me right now. I can't even say how often I'd go. Certainly a couple times a week but I can't promise I'd be able to do it every day with all of the kids and my schedules that I manage. I could see that being held over my head...how much we pay vs how often I go. Anytime I make a purchase I tend to hear about it for a long time after. 

Then we went grocery shopping as a family because we were in the area and it was a nightmare. Husband yelling at kids in the middle of the store, kids crying, no cohesion at all. Just a mess. I stopped halfway through paid for what we have and got us out of there. I was about to lock myself in a bathroom stall and never come back out. I just don't have it in me right now to calm them all down and orchestrate the rest of the shopping. 

I am in bed now. I told H I needed a nap but I have no intention of sleeping. Just wanted to be alone. I can't be around them right now. I'm tired of feeling like I am a burden to my family and everything I see feels like evidence that the world would be a better place without me in it. 

We are trying to plan a summer vacation. The last family vacation we took over spring break was a disaster for me. My mental breakdown started there and I had a miserable time. I need nature and peace and calm. I am pushing for a trip that will have those things. But then I thimk, who am I kidding. If the three of them are with me it's just carting the problems to a different location there will be no peace or tranquility for me. I told my H I wanted to go alone for a few days somewhere by myself. He freaked out. Told me I was selfish. Why would I vacation alone. Why would I spend that money on myself to be alone. I stopped dead in my tracks and said forget it. I don't necessarily want to go alone I just need to know I can turn off and heal my brain and right now every interaction I have with another person is toxic. 

I dream of divorce. I think it would be good for us. My kids would suffer and that is what keeps me attached. He would be blind sided. He has no idea I think of it much less so often. I feel like it would be ripping off a bandaid. A quick sharp pain and then we would be free. He would be free of me and free of the burden of carrying around me and my black hole of depression. Days like today just reinforce that feeling to me. He doesn't get it. I lost it in the grocery store. I walked away from my family and just kept walking leaving them in the dust. I just needed to be away from them right.this.minute before I made a huge scene in the store. I hate feeling that way.

Meanwhile he's in the kitchen eating a sandwich not a care in the world. It is infuriating. I cycle between hating myself and hating HIM.


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kag,
You need to keep coming here - every day - and posting. You are a good person in a very tough spot. 

It is a demonstration of sanity and control to walk away when you are about to boil over. 

When will your husbands professional exams be complete? Is it possible that he will be less tense and more supportive once he completes them?






kag123 said:


> Today has been especially bad for me. I'm switching meds now and I can feel myself coming unglued a bit. What I would really like to do right now is go somewhere far away by myself and be in solitude until this passes me and I am able to stabilize myself. External stimulus is very difficult for me right now and I am feeling very overwhelmed.
> 
> I am a mother and a wife and I have a full time job so I don't get to pause my life, walk away to collect myself, and come back when I am ready. There are no breaks. Not even 10 minute breaks to use the bathroom. The only peace is when sleeping. It is particularly painful to wake up in the morning and face another long day before I can go back to bed again. I count the day in the number of hours until it is over and everyone else is occupied and I can be left alone.
> 
> ...


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

kag123 said:


> Since you seem to be in a similar position, hope you won't mind if I ask you some questions.
> 
> From your post above, do you think that your wife is seeking the wrong treatment? If yes, why do you feel that way? Do you think her medication is not necessary?
> 
> What is it like from your point of view to live with her?


Good questions... I'll answer you in the morning... I'm shattered right now!


----------



## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

K,
Unfortunately day to day life has raised your H's stress level to the red zone. It's why he is unable to help you the way he should be. 

It sounds like you do need some basic support. I'm sure his reaction to the health clubs was disappointing. 

You might want to play around with what you eat. A low carb diet might help stabilize your blood sugar. It's an easy thing to try.

When my blood sugar is screwed up - it wreaks hack on my head...



UOTE=kag123;12665410]Today has been especially bad for me. I'm switching meds now and I can feel myself coming unglued a bit. What I would really like to do right now is go somewhere far away by myself and be in solitude until this passes me and I am able to stabilize myself. External stimulus is very difficult for me right now and I am feeling very overwhelmed. 

I am a mother and a wife and I have a full time job so I don't get to pause my life, walk away to collect myself, and come back when I am ready. There are no breaks. Not even 10 minute breaks to use the bathroom. The only peace is when sleeping. It is particularly painful to wake up in the morning and face another long day before I can go back to bed again. I count the day in the number of hours until it is over and everyone else is occupied and I can be left alone. 

We went to visit gyms this morning. It did not go well. I knew my H was not going to be happy about the prices (truly only a full service gym works for us because we need good childcare and kids amenities to use it...a $10/month equipment only gym isn't going to work). He suffered sticker shock. Truthfully so did i, but I feel a bit more like the price is worth it considering I am grasping at straws right now to help myself out of a deep hole. I know he doesn't see that and he cannot understand it either. 

We went to 3, and all 3 were nice but all around the same price and commitment. He keeps saying it's not fair to spend a big amount of money on something he won't get to use as much as me and the kids. He works a different schedule and wouldn't be able to go with us. The gyms we are looking at are convenient to our house but not to his office so he would not have the option to go during his lunch break for example. I get it. I can't fix that problem for him. He doesn't think it's worth it if he's not directly benefitting. I don't have the stamina right now to try to convince him. I am just letting it go. I have no fight left in me right now. I can't even say how often I'd go. Certainly a couple times a week but I can't promise I'd be able to do it every day with all of the kids and my schedules that I manage. I could see that being held over my head...how much we pay vs how often I go. Anytime I make a purchase I tend to hear about it for a long time after. 

Then we went grocery shopping as a family because we were in the area and it was a nightmare. Husband yelling at kids in the middle of the store, kids crying, no cohesion at all. Just a mess. I stopped halfway through paid for what we have and got us out of there. I was about to lock myself in a bathroom stall and never come back out. I just don't have it in me right now to calm them all down and orchestrate the rest of the shopping. 

I am in bed now. I told H I needed a nap but I have no intention of sleeping. Just wanted to be alone. I can't be around them right now. I'm tired of feeling like I am a burden to my family and everything I see feels like evidence that the world would be a better place without me in it. 

We are trying to plan a summer vacation. The last family vacation we took over spring break was a disaster for me. My mental breakdown started there and I had a miserable time. I need nature and peace and calm. I am pushing for a trip that will have those things. But then I thimk, who am I kidding. If the three of them are with me it's just carting the problems to a different location there will be no peace or tranquility for me. I told my H I wanted to go alone for a few days somewhere by myself. He freaked out. Told me I was selfish. Why would I vacation alone. Why would I spend that money on myself to be alone. I stopped dead in my tracks and said forget it. I don't necessarily want to go alone I just need to know I can turn off and heal my brain and right now every interaction I have with another person is toxic. 

I dream of divorce. I think it would be good for us. My kids would suffer and that is what keeps me attached. He would be blind sided. He has no idea I think of it much less so often. I feel like it would be ripping off a bandaid. A quick sharp pain and then we would be free. He would be free of me and free of the burden of carrying around me and my black hole of depression. Days like today just reinforce that feeling to me. He doesn't get it. I lost it in the grocery store. I walked away from my family and just kept walking leaving them in the dust. I just needed to be away from them right.this.minute before I made a huge scene in the store. I hate feeling that way.

Meanwhile he's in the kitchen eating a sandwich not a care in the world. It is infuriating. I cycle between hating myself and hating HIM.[/QUOTE]


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

kag123 said:


> From your post above, do you think that your wife is seeking the wrong treatment? If yes, why do you feel that way? Do you think her medication is not necessary?


Definitely the wrong treatment. Her issue can be treated or controlled with right type of therapy... it's a long process, but if she started it many years ago, she would be in a much better place now. Of course she'd still need ADs at the beginning. But she is relying only on them now. And she's been taking the same meds since the beginning.

I guess they work for her and it's a lot easier to do that than having to face her ghosts in therapy. I understand that. It's her choice. 



kag123 said:


> What is it like from your point of view to live with her?


It's been very difficult. But she is different from you. She doesn't really communicate, to the extent that I underestimated the scale of her issues, with all the consequences. But when a person keeps telling you she is fine, you end up believing it. Obviously, her behaviour didn't match her words. I also think she is depressed now. I found a book on how coping with depression a couple of years ago.

I think she is depressed because she knows our marriage is doomed. Her libido is zero. I have detached because of the many rejections. She started hating sex. It's very difficult to live with somebody who's emotionally shut-down. Doesn't communicate. Lives in her own words. I can't live with that. 

I've made many mistakes because I had no info. I put her under pressure sex-wise, getting angry when she found excuses after two weeks of no contact... because this was the frequency... I didn't want sex every day! But I can see how I got it all wrong and made things worse. But you make mistakes when you are guessing...

I have accepted it now. I have accepted that our marriage won't be the same any more. She promised to go to therapy 4 years ago to fix herself so we could have a normal marriage again, but after one year (of no therapy) she told me she didn't want to do it after all... well, that was it...


----------

