# My experience of online dating



## Frank Banana

I joined ******* a year ago, to see what all the fuss was about. 

Now I'm a reasonably good looking guy. I don't work out every single week but I do keep in shape to a reasonable extent and I'm quite active. I also eat well. No one has ever said that I'm ugly. 

I have an ok job and a part time business on the side and I'm not in any debt and I have quite a good lifestyle.

I've dated a lot of women and more often than not it's been pretty good with most of them. 

I'm a good conversationalist, I'm thoughtful, a good listener, and I have plenty to contribute to a conversation too. Basically I'm just a normal, reasonable guy. 

I don't think I'm the bees knees or anything like that but to be fair to myself I think I'm quite a good catch. Nothing special, but good enough. 



And then I did online dating. Wow, what a shock. 

I've seen maybe a couple of thousand profiles over the last year, possibly more, and I can honestly say that the percentage of them that come across as dateable is around 2%. Really, it's that bad. I know that's a very rough estimate but it seems about right to me. 

A rough estimate of the number of women that I've sent initial messages to is about...I'm going to say 700. 

The nature of my messages has ranged from normal greetings to slightly cheeky (but not rude) comments about something they say or something in one of their pictures. 

And yet to this day I think I've had maybe 30 responses. And out of those, I think maybe 5 were positive. The rest were rude or snarky in one way or another. And out of the positive responses, they all abandoned the conversation within a few exchanges. 



What I've just described is how it was when I was looking at and messaging UK women. 

Up until this point I was sending messages to women who lived near me, and then gradually I started including those that were a bit further afield, and then I just thought why not check out women all over the country. 

But then I had a thought. If I'm now messaging or at least checking out women that I couldn't possibly meet because they're too far away, why not check out women in other countries? 

So that's what I did. First I checked out french women. Some seemed ok, others not so much. But I noticed that they were more responsive than UK women by and large. Same in Italy, Croatia, Romania and those countries in that part of Europe, and Russia too. Before I knew it I was actually having chats with these women. 

Then I tried Asia. Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Vietnam. It was even better. I actually found myself connecting with these girls even though they're so far away. 

Same in Latin America. They were so friendly, so curious, and very intelligent despite the less than perfect english that some of them have. 

The common thing that they all had was that their attitudes were totally different. I was such a breath of fresh air. I really felt like I was talking to real women. It was like night and day compared with those women back in the UK. They were like a different species, and it felt so natural. I finally felt like I could be myself, rather than having to think up a load of super witty lines to get their attention, only to be ignored time and time again. 

And their profiles conveyed so much femininity, humility, sweetness, and pretty much everything that was lacking in the UK women's profiles. Even such a simple thing as smiling in a picture, their smiles were natural and relaxed, not contrived, and no duckfaces or pretentious posing. Just natural sweetness. 

Then I tried the US but it was a very mixed bag. Mostly negative, but from time to time there were a few good ones. Australia was terrible. 

It seems to me that women in western nations have for the most part forgotten how to be women. Such bad attitudes, fakery, and in a lot of profiles I notice hostility and defensiveness. Basically they're just terrible. It's such a vast contrast. 

Here's an example. In so many western women's profiles, they say don't send me a message if all you're going to say is hi, hello etc. Who do they think they are to tell people what to say in a message? And anyway, why do they think they're too good for a normal greeting, like a normal person? It seems that they're just there for attention and flattery and they have no intention to meet anyone. 

By contrast, the women in the other countries almost always responded to a simple greeting. They understood that it was an invitation to check out my profile and have a chat. They didn't feel entitled to being wowed in a first message. They understand that friendship (or whatever) takes a little time to build. They know this. 

Another example. Western women generally don't sell themselves well. They use their profiles as a personal blog, and then expect men to read everything. Some of them even (and I kid you not, I've spotted it many times) tell the reader to quote something from their profile to prove that they read it. Unbelievable! You don't get such neurotic nonsense from the other women in other countries. It's such immaturity / narcissism. By contrast, a woman from Vietnam or Malaysia or Hungary or Colombia will actually mention what she thinks are her best attributes, things that men find appealing. 

I once asked one of the few western women that responded to me why she chose to talk about her pastimes, hobbies, interests, job, travels, etc at the expense of mentioning what she thinks makes her a good catch, and she said that that stuff should be a given, or that you find out these things as the conversation unfold. What rubbish. It's a dating site, you're supposed to sell yourself as a prospective girlfriend or wife. 



A female acquaintance said to me that the only reason they chat with me (the foreign ones) is because they're poor and want me to take care of them. But she said it without even knowing what countries, which tells me that she was making excuses. Besides, it's not true, as I know from having chatted with them. I tell them that meeting is not really an option and they still stick around. There's a misconception that western = good, non western = bad. Meaning, people in non western countries are desperately poor and unhappy. But nothing could be further from the truth. They're also very intelligent. And very cultured. 

The long and the short of it is that my experience with non western women on online dating has been amazing so far, and it raises questions about the quality of western women in general. 

The problem is not that western women don't have potential. They totally do have it. But when I see it from both sides, that's to say, when I see what women are like in non western countries, and when I make the comparison, it's a massive difference. 

Another thing is that if the women who do online dating are the worst of their culture, then that makes me wonder just how amazing those foreign women who don't use it must be. But by contrast, what I see from the western women on dating sites is pretty much what I see in day to day life too. 

And that's what I've learned from my experience of online dating.


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## Faithful Wife

Sorry to break it to ya, but western women (at least in the US) are doing just fine on dating sites and many times are getting bombarded with messages from men.

So...no, we don't really have to "sell" ourselves. Men will message you no matter what you say or don't say and if we want dates, we get them.


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## Faithful Wife

Frank Banana said:


> By contrast, the women in the other countries almost always responded to a simple greeting. They understood that it was an invitation to check out my profile and have a chat. They didn't feel entitled to being wowed in a first message. They understand that friendship (or whatever) takes a little time to build. They know this.


You don't know what these women "know" from a few broken english messages back and forth on a dating site, sorry.


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## FrenchFry

:iagree:

This is still really funny to me:

4 Things I Learned from the Worst Online Dating Profile Ever | Cracked.com

Aaron Carter's biggest fan gets massive amounts of messages a day.

YOLO!


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## COGypsy

Frank Banana said:


> I once asked one of the few western women that responded to me why she chose to talk about her pastimes, hobbies, interests, job, travels, etc at the expense of mentioning what she thinks makes her a good catch, and she said that that stuff should be a given, or that you find out these things as the conversation unfold. What rubbish. It's a dating site, you're supposed to sell yourself as a prospective girlfriend or wife.


I know I'm going to hate myself for asking, but here goes....

How is a woman expressing her interests, job, hobbies and travels NOT mentioning what makes her a good catch?

Oh, and I have to say that as a western woman who's done a fair share of online dating, if you used the same name there as you do here, I'd have taken one look at your name and deleted without opening most likely. I'd seriously have assumed it was going to be just another d!ck pic. On sites like OK Cupid you get probably 25 of those a day.


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## Lon

Faithful Wife said:


> Sorry to break it to ya, but western women (at least in the US) are doing just fine on dating sites and many times are getting bombarded with messages from men.
> 
> So...no, we don't really have to "sell" ourselves. Men will message you no matter what you say or don't say and if we want dates, we get them.


As a guy that was in a similar predicament as Frank, online dating with Western women sucks. Sure, you women have a lot of attention on there and don't have to sell your good qualities to find a man.

That is the point I think he is trying to make, that an average man gets overlooked every time.


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## Lon

Faithful Wife said:


> You don't know what these women "know" from a few broken english messages back and forth on a dating site, sorry.


His point was that they were polite enough to atleast acknowledge the message.

I think Frank simply appreciates people who approach interactions on the internet the same way they would in real life, with manners.


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## Faithful Wife

But Frank has no idea what sort of absolute SH*T manners most women have to deal with from men in online dating.

So his assumptions about "why" western women are like this on those sites is probably waaaaaaay off if he thinks we are just stuck up beeotches who don't think our poo stinks.


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## Faithful Wife

Let me put it this way...

If you guys got 100 messages per day of outright spam disguised as messages from real women who wanted to date you...would you be so excited to answer all those messages as you currently THINK we women should be excited about answer the hundreds of messages from completely inappropriate strangers to us?


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## FrenchFry

The other side to that is if you do happen to respond to a guy nicely--chances are you are going to get a **** pick in response.
It's not a beautiful world on either side.

******* in particular is not the place to look for "manners." Yikes.


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## Faithful Wife

I think the bottom line in these discussions is this: If she doesn't think you're hot, she's not going to respond, no matter what you say in your message.

Now, in some cases there will be an exception.

But mostly not.

So that's really your answer, guys.

YES, women place a high value on looks.

Get that into your heads, please.


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## Frank Banana

Lon said:


> As a guy that was in a similar predicament as Frank, online dating with Western women sucks. Sure, you women have a lot of attention on there and don't have to sell your good qualities to find a man.
> 
> That is the point I think he is trying to make, that an average man gets overlooked every time.


Yes that's right, that's what I'm saying. Western women are spoiled with attention that makes even a 5/10 think she's a 9. 

The **** that western women have to put with is almost alien to foreign women. It's almost as if western women portray themselves as not to be taken seriously. 

No wonder some men just **** about with them. I'm not condoning it, but western women bring it on themselves. Portray yourself like a loser, get treated like a loser. Personally I don't bother with them, but I can't blame some men for treating those women like a joke. Their profiles attract that. 

I mean, think about it. What's more plausible...

Most men are losers who bombard women with silly messages

Most western women are losers and thus they get treated like losers. 


Isn't it funny how foreign women generally don't complain about any of that. They are treated like ladies. It's western women who complain that there are no good men.

I do wish western women would quit arrogantly claiming to speak for all women.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Faithful Wife said:


> But Frank has no idea what sort of absolute SH*T manners most women have to deal with from men in online dating.
> 
> So his assumptions about "why" western women are like this on those sites is probably waaaaaaay off if he thinks we are just stuck up beeotches who don't think our poo stinks.


All I know is my starting experience was the same as Frank's, I was never rude or impolite, but of hundreds of messages I sent out over the course of nearly 2 years, to ones whom I actually thought sounded interesting, I only got a half dozen replies at all, only three or four of which turned into an actual dialog. I ended up on 2 first dates, the first was an octomom, the second was a Persian lady whom I had a short relationship with and whom had a very profound knack for bringing out my masculinity.

So even if you suggest good manners are important it seems for most women on dating sites it counts for nothing.


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## Faithful Wife

I have literally never heard a western woman say "oh dear I must be such a loser since I am getting treated like a loser online".

What they do say is "I wish there was a way to filter out all the crap messages so I could just focus on the good ones".


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## Faithful Wife

Lon - see my post #11.


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## Nikita2270

I'm finding this thread amusing.

I'm a western woman. I have a career but I also am very domesticated. I love to cook, to clean, to take care of myself and try to be kind to other people.

I find the generalizations of western women ridiculous. Did you consider the motivations of some of the women you chatted with from less developed countries? Do you know that some of them have life plans that involve meeting some sucker online and getting citizenship? Perhaps they are being kind to you due to ulterior motives?

And by the way, how much talking do you do online? Did you ever consider that western women might find you an unsuitable match because you spend too much time talking to women on the internet?


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Faithful Wife said:


> I have literally never heard a western woman say "oh dear I must be such a loser since I am getting treated like a loser online".
> 
> What they do say is "I wish there was a way to filter out all the crap messages so I could just focus on the good ones".


Filtering is good, however very few used a set of filters that were adequate to find me. So I gave up on online dating entirely because I have better things to do with my life - including having awesome conversations with real and interesting people like you FW on web forums


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## FrenchFry

I mean...


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## Miss Independent

Faithful Wife said:


> I "I wish there was a way to filter out all the crap messages so I could just focus on the good ones".


I'm an Eastern woman, and I say that. I did online dating as a research for a paper I was writing, and I went on dates and considered those who sent nice and interesting message, who didn't want to chat every day at odd hours. I think the issue is not Western or Eastern. The issue is what they are looking for: someone for a longterm R, citizenship, sugar dd etc.. Jmo


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Lon said:


> Filtering is good, however very few used a set of filters that were adequate to find me. So I gave up on online dating entirely because I have better things to do with my life - including having awesome conversations with real and interesting people like you FW on web forums


Also I have read many comments on the singles thread that suggest if women want an ego boost to put up a dating profile... But my warning to the men is that it takes a very strong ego to survive online dating.


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## Faithful Wife

Lon, I personally never thought it was an ego boost to get dozens and dozens of inappropriate messages. Bleah.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Faithful Wife said:


> Let me put it this way...
> 
> If you guys got 100 messages per day of outright spam disguised as messages from real women who wanted to date you...would you be so excited to answer all those messages as you currently THINK we women should be excited about answer the hundreds of messages from completely inappropriate strangers to us?


Problem is, of the hundreds of messages I wrote, some short, some long, all of them were sincere and never a single cut and paste. I never spammed. I wasn't about results though, I was about authenticity, and that was my error.


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## Faithful Wife

spinsterdurga said:


> I'm an Eastern woman, and I say that. I did online dating as a research for a paper I was writing, and I went on dates and considered those who sent nice and interesting message, who didn't want to chat every day at odd hours. I think the issue is not Western or Eastern. The issue is what they are looking for: someone for a longterm R, citizenship, sugar dd etc.. Jmo


Right.

I'm only saying the "western" part because the OP is the one who made it out that the "western" women are losers because they don't answer messages to guys they aren't into.

See, it seems totally normal to a guy if you ask him "hey would you respond to a message from a woman if you didn't think she was attractive at all?" he would easily and quickly say "no".

But the guys who bombard women with messages don't understand the same goes the other way.

If we don't reply, it is because we weren't attracted to your picture.

Very simple.

Again there will be exceptions, but not many.


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## Faithful Wife

Lon, it really isn't about manners.

It is about attraction.


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## Frank Banana

Lon said:


> All I know is my starting experience was the same as Frank's, I was never rude or impolite, but of hundreds of messages I sent out over the course of nearly 2 years, to ones whom I actually thought sounded interesting, I only got a half dozen replies at all, only three or four of which turned into an actual dialog. I ended up on 2 first dates, the first was an octomom, the second was a Persian lady whom I had a short relationship with and whom had a very profound knack for bringing out my masculinity.
> 
> So even if you suggest good manners are important it seems for most women on dating sites it counts for nothing.


Spot on. 

With western women, you send hundreds of messages, and you get next to nothing. Then they complain and have ridiculous standards based on superficial preferences rather than on important qualities. I've even seen profiles where the woman says you must like cats. So, the heirarchy is : Her, her pet, you. No thank you. 

With foreign women, you send a message, and they respond. Time and time again. They're curious, friendly, bright, feminine, and lovely. 

It makes me laugh whenever a western women rolls out the tired old argument that foreign women are desperate. Ha, you wish. 

They also say that men are butthurt that women don't want to respond to them because they don't like them. That's another myth. How likely is it that men are consistently not good enough to date? Hardly. The problem is that western women are so entitled and picky that no one is good enough in their eyes. 

And western women love to speak for all women. Yeah, right. Foreign women are head and shoulders above them.


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## Faithful Wife

Frank Banana said:


> Then they complain and have ridiculous standards based on superficial preferences rather than on important qualities.


:rofl:

Yeah, attraction is a "superficial preference".


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## COGypsy

What always amazes me about online dating is that people seem to think it's like Amazon for relationships. Point, click, send and your perfect date is on his way. 

I would actually liken it more to being out at some social venue. We go out, we might scope out a couple of hotties and make eye contact and nothing comes of it. Or chat at the bar for a few minutes and never speak to each other again. Or not see anyone interesting looking at all. And of course you might start chatting with someone and talk all night long. But any single one of those outcomes would be totally normal for a night out. Luck and numbers. 

However, we find it odd that it's any different online. I'd say one could easily look through the same number of matches in an evening online that one might see on an average night in a bar/club/whatever. Yet if the entire interwebz doesn't swoop in to snatch you right up, then clearly its because there's just something wrong with people today. It's a strange dichotomy.


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## Rowan

May I suggest, then, Frank, that you only date foreign women? That would seem to eliminate most of your concerns and issues. I mean, we're all losers, apparently to the last old maid, so please feel free to spread your gracious largesse on more appreciative shores. Naturally, this would also serve to eliminate yet another man who actually hates the women he professes he's trying to attract from the pool most of us are sincerely attempting to filter our way through. A win-win for everyone, I should think.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I think that women in Asian countries are evolved to suit their limited circumstances when it comes to equity. Of course they are going to be nice to a guy in the UK. 

Women in Western countries have not "forgotten" how to be women. They just have other options besides turning on the charm unless there's something they really want that's worth their while. They have options like being able to get their own place to live, a job, custody of their children, health care, and all that. 

I think maybe in order to make a fair observation of Eastern women, you need to get yourself a male profile that is more akin to a male in their own country, with average prospects and no citizenship in a developed western country. Then try again and see what happens.

I'm not saying what you experienced is undesirable, but for me I'd rather be wanted for myself, not for my passport. Just remember after all the online experience, you need to show up with a round trip ticket for yourself, and a one-way ticket for the intended Mrs. Oh, and bring some antibiotics, you might need them. (Same as in the States, really.)


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## Nikita2270

Rowan said:


> May I suggest, then, Frank, that you only date foreign women? That would seem to eliminate most of your concerns and issues. I mean, we're all losers, apparently to the last old maid, so please feel free to spread your gracious largesse on more appreciative shores. Naturally, this would also serve to eliminate yet another man who actually hates the women he professes he's trying to attract from the pool most of us are sincerely attempting to filter our way through. A win-win for everyone, I should think.


Lol...well said Rowan. I really dislike those who make insulting generalizations about whole groups of people.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon

Frank Banana said:


> Yes that's right, that's what I'm saying. Western women are spoiled with attention that makes even a 5/10 think she's a 9.
> 
> The **** that western women have to put with is almost alien to foreign women. It's almost as if western women portray themselves as not to be taken seriously.
> 
> No wonder some men just **** about with them. I'm not condoning it, but western women bring it on themselves. Portray yourself like a loser, get treated like a loser. Personally I don't bother with them, but I can't blame some men for treating those women like a joke. Their profiles attract that.
> 
> I mean, think about it. What's more plausible...
> 
> Most men are losers who bombard women with silly messages
> 
> Most western women are losers and thus they get treated like losers.
> 
> 
> Isn't it funny how foreign women generally don't complain about any of that. They are treated like ladies. It's western women who complain that there are no good men.
> 
> I do wish western women would quit arrogantly claiming to speak for all women.


I understand the point you are making Frank, and agree a little with the generalization. However I do feel that it is a little too strong of a generalization.

Using words like "spoiled" and "losers" is pretty harsh language. I think it just has more to do with the macroeconomics of sex - nobody rants and raves about a good steak, they seek out a great steak. So just like you are online feeling out the waters for a great woman, so are women looking for a great man. We both use our own set of general filters, and it starts with looks. However I am an atleast average looking guy, but I couldn't even make conversation with 99% of women ranging from homely to portly to gorgeous.  I would have liked to have judged them on personality but it never got that far, every single one that didn't reply had a stinker of a personality for passing up a really great guy for the hopes that the next piece of eye candy won't be a complete "loser".

The supply of very attractive looking men met the demand for them by most all the female online daters. Most guys I know fall into two camps: 1) just like me, zero results or 2) make it look easy. So there is obviously enough players to go around for the vast number of female seekers, that us unremarkable but very good quality guys don't even filter through. Instead of taking it personally, accept it and move on  part of not hating the player mentality.


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## Lon

Faithful Wife said:


> Lon, I personally never thought it was an ego boost to get dozens and dozens of inappropriate messages. Bleah.


I meant it is an ego boost to know without a doubt that you are sexually desirable.


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## Frank Banana

Lon said:


> I understand the point you are making Frank, and agree a little with the generalization. However I do feel that it is a little too strong of a generalization.
> 
> Using words like "spoiled" and "losers" is pretty harsh language. I think it just has more to do with the macroeconomics of sex - nobody rants and raves about a good steak, they seek out a great steak. So just like you are online feeling out the waters for a great woman, so are women looking for a great man. We both use our own set of general filters, and it starts with looks. However I am an atleast average looking guy, but I couldn't even make conversation with 99% of women ranging from homely to portly to gorgeous. I would have liked to have judged them on personality but it never got that far, every single one that didn't reply had a stinker of a personality for passing up a really great guy for the hopes that the next piece of eye candy won't be a complete "loser".
> 
> The supply of very attractive looking men met the demand for them by most all the female online daters. Most guys I know fall into two camps: 1) just like me, zero results or 2) make it look easy. So there is obviously enough players to go around for the vast number of female seekers, that us unremarkable but very good quality guys don't even filter through. Instead of taking it personally, accept it and move on  part of not hating the player mentality.


Sometimes in life you need to experience something to learn something. If you're having trouble with western women on dating sites, check out women from certain Asian countries, or eastern Europe, or Latin America. Try it. I guarantee you that within minutes you will be chatting with more than one woman. And then you'll know. Try looking at it from both sides. You know as well as I do that cultures are different. People are different. Ignore what the women here are saying and the excuses that they're making, and just give it a go and see for yourself. You'll notice a world of difference. I'm not talking about desperate, impoverished women in mudhuts, I'm talking well dressed, fit, healthy, intelligent stylish women with jobs. The only price you'll have to pay for such great company is that some of them don't speak perfect english, and obviously their culture is different so they won't always understand certain expressions that you might use, but if you can get past that you'll discover how great they are. And no they won't ask you about how much you earn or anything like that.


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## TiggyBlue

Kinda don't understand why this is posted in the Ladies Lounge. If you wanted to have a b*tch about western women wouldn't the Men's Clubhouse been a more appropriate place?


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## Faithful Wife

Lon said:


> I meant it is an ego boost to know without a doubt that you are sexually desirable.


This is something that a lot of men don't understand, Lon.

It is not an ego boost to be sexually desired by random internet strangers who send you pics of their d*ck.

Really, it isn't.

Trust me.


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## FrenchFry

Yes and no...especially on a dating site Lon.

I mean, if it's on adultfriendfinder and you are looking for casual hookups, yes it's nice to know someone will hookup with you.

But if you are a genuine person on *******, who spent a lot of time on your profile articulating your interests, your personality, your dislikes and dealbreakers and all you get is a steady stream of "hey ur sexy wanna f?" or the more articulate versions of that, it gets tiresome.

And then you read articles like the one I posted where dudes are throwing themselves at straight up (hot) idiots as well--it becomes less flattering.

This is what it would look like IRL, I swear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5YyvW1Kk7Q


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## Faithful Wife

Frank Banana said:


> The only price you'll have to pay for such great company is that some of them don't speak perfect english, and obviously their culture is different so they won't always understand certain expressions that you might use, but if you can get past that you'll discover how great they are. And no they won't ask you about how much you earn or anything like that.


What is the point of endlessly chatting with someone on a dating site that you will never get to date?

Just to have a pretty girl speak to you?


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## AnnieAsh

Good luck overseas, Frank.  We American women will have to muddle on, I suppose. 

I will say my brief foray into online dating years ago was scary. Lots of penis shots, older guys (20 yrs my senior EASILY) salivating over the chance to have a shot at a young black woman, and plenty of abuse when I opted not to fall for their tripe. Mind you, this was before my husband and I became serious so OKC wasn't around. I remember using Match and a few other sites. 

Some would call it an ego boost but how is that? When the message women get is that men have a biological need to boff anything...how is it a compliment that you are a warm, moist hole? 2 Ts, an A, and a V. Oh yeah you're breathing as well.


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## Miss Independent

Frank Banana said:


> Yes that's right, that's what I'm saying. Western women are spoiled with attention that makes even a 5/10 think she's a 9.
> 
> 
> 
> The **** that western women have to put with is almost alien to foreign women. It's almost as if western women portray themselves as not to be taken seriously.
> 
> 
> 
> No wonder some men just **** about with them. I'm not condoning it, but western women bring it on themselves. Portray yourself like a loser, get treated like a loser. Personally I don't bother with them, but I can't blame some men for treating those women like a joke. Their profiles attract that.
> 
> 
> 
> Most western women are losers and thus they get treated .



I'm not a Western woman but I find you highly disrespectful. Western woman have more options than Non-western. Why don't you pick up woman in real life and stop with online dating? You come across as a Western woman basher. I've travelled a lot and there are non-Western woman who are 5s but think and act as if they were 10s. Either date Non-western or go meet woman in real life instead of hiding behind a screen. 👼


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## Lon

COGypsy said:


> What always amazes me about online dating is that people seem to think it's like Amazon for relationships. Point, click, send and your perfect date is on his way.
> 
> I would actually liken it more to being out at some social venue. We go out, we might scope out a couple of hotties and make eye contact and nothing comes of it. Or chat at the bar for a few minutes and never speak to each other again. Or not see anyone interesting looking at all. And of course you might start chatting with someone and talk all night long. But any single one of those outcomes would be totally normal for a night out. Luck and numbers.
> 
> However, we find it odd that it's any different online. I'd say one could easily look through the same number of matches in an evening online that one might see on an average night in a bar/club/whatever. Yet if the entire interwebz doesn't swoop in to snatch you right up, then clearly its because there's just something wrong with people today. It's a strange dichotomy.


so it's like the 80/20 rule applies online just as it does in real life?

I don't know about amazon.com, but I do know that I got tired of being just as invisible to women online as I was IRL. So I just focussed on myself, try to do the things that bring me life - it is just difficult sometimes when there is a need not just for sex or a partner but general real life relationships. For an introvert, and one whom was probably hurt deeply, the rejection of reaching out and seeing people's energy and attention pass right over you can be a little too much to take sometimes. For those like this (like me when I'm in the dumps) dating is a harsh landscape, made much easier when the affection of someone with a different set of filters (because of difference in cultures) actually sees you and connects with you.

I think that is what Frank was recognizing, that under a foreign set of filters it is easier to be seen, at a time when you need to be seen.


----------



## FrenchFry

TiggyBlue said:


> Kinda don't understand why this is posted in the Ladies Lounge. If you wanted to have a b*tch about western women wouldn't the Men's Clubhouse been a more appropriate place?


Our pegs needed to be knocked down a few notches. Shame on us for not talking to Frank Banana.


----------



## Lon

Faithful Wife said:


> This is something that a lot of men don't understand, Lon.
> 
> It is not an ego boost to be sexually desired by random internet strangers who send you pics of their d*ck.
> 
> Really, it isn't.
> 
> Trust me.


well then maybe there is some healthy balance between too much random sexual advances and too little random sexual advances?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lon said:


> I think that is what Frank was recognizing, that under a foreign set of filters it is easier to be seen, at a time when you need to be seen.


To be "seen" by a pretty woman whom you will never get to meet? And it is oh-so valuable BECAUSE she is pretty.

And yet he is calling western women "superficial".


----------



## Lon

TiggyBlue said:


> Kinda don't understand why this is posted in the Ladies Lounge. If you wanted to have a b*tch about western women wouldn't the Men's Clubhouse been a more appropriate place?


And I didn't even realize this was in the LL. :scratchhead: was wondering why no other dudes have piped up yet.


----------



## Lon

Frank Banana said:


> Sometimes in life you need to experience something to learn something. If you're having trouble with western women on dating sites, check out women from certain Asian countries, or eastern Europe, or Latin America. Try it. I guarantee you that within minutes you will be chatting with more than one woman. And then you'll know. Try looking at it from both sides. You know as well as I do that cultures are different. People are different. Ignore what the women here are saying and the excuses that they're making, and just give it a go and see for yourself. You'll notice a world of difference. I'm not talking about desperate, impoverished women in mudhuts, I'm talking well dressed, fit, healthy, intelligent stylish women with jobs. The only price you'll have to pay for such great company is that some of them don't speak perfect english, and obviously their culture is different so they won't always understand certain expressions that you might use, but if you can get past that you'll discover how great they are. And no they won't ask you about how much you earn or anything like that.


if you read my comment you will see that I have dated atleast one woman from an Eastern culture. But now I get the sense that you are about to recommend and provide a link to some asian girl dating site?


----------



## Lon

Faithful Wife said:


> To be "seen" by a pretty woman whom you will never get to meet? And it is oh-so valuable BECAUSE she is pretty.
> 
> And yet he is calling western women "superficial".


see my comment #42


----------



## Frank Banana

Lon said:


> so it's like the 80/20 rule applies online just as it does in real life?
> 
> I don't know about amazon.com, but I do know that I got tired of being just as invisible to women online as I was IRL. So I just focussed on myself, try to do the things that bring me life - it is just difficult sometimes when there is a need not just for sex or a partner but general real life relationships. For an introvert, and one whom was probably hurt deeply, the rejection of reaching out and seeing people's energy and attention pass right over you can be a little too much to take sometimes. For those like this (like me when I'm in the dumps) dating is a harsh landscape, made much easier when the affection of someone with a different set of filters (because of difference in cultures) actually sees you and connects with you.
> 
> I think that is what Frank was recognizing, that under a foreign set of filters it is easier to be seen, at a time when you need to be seen.


The big problem with western women is that no one is good enough for them. That's actually what they believe. Notice how one poster here keeps going on about attraction, as though most men are ugly. To the average western female, if you're not Superman or Brad Pitt, you're scum. Thus they reject almost everyone. And that is what makes them unattractive to men. That attitude. 

Reading the responses here it's so clear that these women here, and that includes the so called non western women, are severely butthurt by what has been said. A non western woman who comes to a western country is as good as ruined. With a few exceptions, but not many. The problem is that western culture corrodes and ruins women. 

They think that any man who criticises western women must be a loser. Not true at all. The elephant in the room is that western women are no good for dating. And we're living in a time when more men are speaking up about this. And so they should.


----------



## FrenchFry

I approved this post so we can all point and laugh. I'm sure our mostly married and taken members posting here are very butthurt. 

Also, this whole thread will probably be deleted in the near future. You all know why.


----------



## TiggyBlue

Lon said:


> And I didn't even realize this was in the LL. :scratchhead: was wondering why no other dudes have piped up yet.


Oh would worry about that...... they'll come soon


----------



## AnnieAsh

I love it! Frank, you are a blast. Tell us more.


----------



## TiggyBlue

AnnieAsh said:


> Good luck overseas, Frank.  We American women will have to muddle on, I suppose.
> 
> I will say my brief foray into online dating years ago was scary. Lots of penis shots, older guys (20 yrs my senior EASILY) salivating over the chance to have a shot at a young black woman, and plenty of abuse when I opted not to fall for their tripe.


This was pretty much the experience of my friends who have done online dating (wasn't all bad though one ended marrying someone she met on a dating site). But a lot of much older men trying it on happened to both of them.


----------



## Rowan

Lon said:


> well then maybe there is some healthy balance between too much random sexual advances and too little random sexual advances?


Unless they are specifically advertising for NSA hookups with strangers, it's best to assume that the correct number of "random sexual advances" to most women is.....zero. 

Most respectable women seriously do not enjoy random sexual advances from random strangers. It's that "random" part most of us have issues with. Please, at least pretend to get my name and talk to me a bit before you try the internet equivalent of grabbing the crotch of the lady standing next to you on the subway.

If we don't know each other, really, I don't want to see your unit. Really, I don't want your initial greeting to make any mention of my breasts or my vagina - even if you use colorful, and surely meant to be charming, euphemisms. Really, I don't need to know what you'd like to do to me. Or where. Or how often. Or when. Or with what props. 

Really.


----------



## Lon

Frank, its not just women that have been "corroded". I personally find that society is pretty backwards, but that is the part about accepting and moving on I mentioned earlier.

Now you can be like me and just find the rare "backwards" people to associate with (which we would say we are the rare normal ones in a world that is backwards) or like you seem to want, go live in a culture that aligns better with your own philosophy. I think it is futile to complain about though. Can't really change society but you can choose which parts of it you want to be part of.


----------



## Miss Independent

Frank Banana said:


> The big problem with western women is that no one is good enough for them. That's actually what they believe. Notice how one poster here keeps going on about attraction, as though most men are ugly. To the average western female, if you're not Superman or Brad Pitt, you're scum. Thus they reject almost everyone. And that is what makes them unattractive to men. That attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Reading the responses here it's so clear that these women here, and that includes the so called non western women, are severely butthurt by what has been said. A non western woman who comes to a western country is as good as ruined. With a few exceptions, but not many. The problem is that western culture corrodes and ruins women.
> 
> 
> 
> They think that any man who criticises western women must be a loser. Not true at all. The elephant in the room is that western women are no good for dating. And we're living in a time when more men are speaking up about this. And so they should.



Huh I'm non-Western, and you are no good for dating. You can't say that you know someone just by emailing back and forth. You don't know their intention. I've been lurking for years, and I wouldn't put with what Western woman are putting up with on TAM. Those women who don't care about attraction that you're talking about are looking for a husband. Bottom line you need to meet those women get to know them and then talk about how they like you even though you're not Brad Pitt


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I'm a western woman and when I lived in Asia even Asian women would pay attention to me. Why? Because it's a connection to the West that might pay off. 

Dude, it is not you, it is not the women. It is economics and politics. It is how terrible life is in some Asian countries. Unless you are a woman living there you have no clue. 

When I was in Iceland I found myself being attracted to Icelandic men I would never give a second glance to in the US. Why, because Iceland is an awesome country, it has a much higher standard of living than the US. It has the third highest living standard in the world. I'm being honest. Beer belly, no problem, a few extra years, no sweat, lost your job and selling insurance now? Who cares. I'll be happy living in Iceland. We'll figure it out. 

In Mongolia, I never even bothered to look at the men.
In China, even though I wanted to stay and could have used an easy resident pass, I never even thought about finding a Chinese husband. 

Why, because I'm a woman. Moreover, I'm human. And you know what humans do? They try to live the best d*mn life under the best d*mn circumstances possible using whatever leverage they might have to get from step A to step B. Anyone who claims any different is a liar.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm a western woman and when I lived in Asia even Asian women would pay attention to me. Why? Because it's a connection to the West that might pay off.
> 
> Dude, it is not you, it is not the women. It is economics and politics. It is how terrible life is in some Asian countries. Unless you are a woman living there you have no clue.
> 
> When I was in Iceland I found myself being attracted to Icelandic men I would never give a second glance to in the US. Why, because Iceland is an awesome country, it has a much higher standard of living than the US. It has the third highest living standard in the world. I'm being honest. Beer belly, no problem, a few extra years, no sweat, lost your job and selling insurance now? Who cares. I'll be happy living in Iceland. We'll figure it out.
> 
> In Mongolia, I never even bothered to look at the men.
> In China, even though I wanted to stay and could have used an easy resident pass, I never even thought about finding a Chinese husband.
> 
> Why, because I'm a woman. Moreover, I'm human. And you know what humans do? They try to live the best d*mn life under the best d*mn circumstances possible using whatever leverage they might have to get from step A to step B. Anyone who claims any different is a liar.


Not saying what you think is wrong, but I'm wondering if many women follow the same approach? Earlier FW suggested it just about attraction. I know for me, I was attracted to the Persian woman I was with because of how I felt when I was with her, her social standing didn't even register. In fact I tend to be uninterested in women with high standing, even if it meant that my own could be elevated.


----------



## COGypsy

FrenchFry said:


> I approved this post so we can all point and laugh. I'm sure our mostly married and taken members posting here are very butthurt.
> 
> Also, this whole thread will probably be deleted in the near future. You all know why.



Exactly  Who is the one cruising for cyber dates and who is reminiscing about online adventures? I guess we're all just so, so lucky that we found the last remaining western men who would tolerate our butt hurts, lol.


----------



## Frank Banana

Lon said:


> Frank, its not just women that have been "corroded". I personally find that society is pretty backwards, but that is the part about accepting and moving on I mentioned earlier.
> 
> Now you can be like me and just find the rare "backwards" people to associate with (which we would say we are the rare normal ones in a world that is backwards) or like you seem to want, go live in a culture that aligns better with your own philosophy. I think it is futile to complain about though. Can't really change society but you can choose which parts of it you want to be part of.


Yes that's true and I do plan on going to Asia. 

What I found particularly hilarious was when one poster here said in one post that she is doing "just fine" on dating sites, and then later she complains about the "absolute **** manners" that she has to put up with. 

Perhaps the reason why western women get bombarded with so much negativity is because they portray themselves as being unworthy of any positive feedback. Like I said before I don't condone it and personally I don't bother with them any more, but when you portray such obnoxious attitudes you're bound to get that kind of feedback. 

Out of the many foreign women (aka living in their own country, unwesternized) that I've chatted with, none of them has complained about anything from any men. It just goes to show that when a woman acts and portrays herself as a lady, she gets treated like one, and when she doesn't, well, she doesn't.

I also notice how the women here are making generalizations about Asian women yet they don't like it much when someone makes an observation about western women. The simple truth is that those women are raised properly, both by their parents and the culture, while western women are a shadow of what they used to be. They know it. They are absolutely butthurt as hell that men are waking up to this.


----------



## Caribbean Man

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm a western woman and when I lived in Asia even Asian women would pay attention to me. Why? Because it's a connection to the West that might pay off.
> 
> Dude, it is not you, it is not the women. It is economics and politics. It is how terrible life is in some Asian countries. Unless you are a woman living there you have no clue.
> 
> When I was in Iceland I found myself being attracted to Icelandic men I would never give a second glance to in the US. Why, because Iceland is an awesome country, it has a much higher standard of living than the US. It has the third highest living standard in the world. I'm being honest. Beer belly, no problem, a few extra years, no sweat, lost your job and selling insurance now? Who cares. I'll be happy living in Iceland. We'll figure it out.
> 
> In Mongolia, I never even bothered to look at the men.
> In China, even though I wanted to stay and could have used an easy resident pass, I never even thought about finding a Chinese husband.
> 
> Why, because I'm a woman. * Moreover, I'm human. And you know what humans do? They try to live the best d*mn life under the best d*mn circumstances possible using whatever leverage they might have to get from step A to step B. Anyone who claims any different is a liar.*


This is so true. I've been saying this^^^ [ the highlighted part ] over and over here on TAM whenever the great " _attraction and sex rank_ " debate comes up.

But I'm not an expert.

However , I have traveled a bit and worked among other cultures, as well as I live in a country littered with tens of thousands of migrant workers and immigrants from all over the globe ,looking for a " better life."
Part of that continuum is dating, sex and marriage , the end result being an extremely diverse , mixed population.

Attraction is very subjective.
The only constant in my experience is socioeconomic background. People tend to pair off with their equals.

A migrant Nigerian doctor in our country would hardly pair off with a local teacher. He would either pair off with another doctor , a migrant Filipino doctor ,or a Colombian business woman etc.


----------



## FrenchFry

COGypsy said:


> Exactly  Who is the one cruising for cyber dates and who is reminiscing about online adventures? I guess we're all just so, so lucky that we found the last remaining western men who would tolerate our butt hurts, lol.


Straight up, I got the last one. Sorry ladies, I'm really sorry. It was years ago as well, I don't know how anyone is even getting married now here, it's crazy.


----------



## COGypsy

FrenchFry said:


> Straight up, I got the last one. Sorry ladies, I'm really sorry. It was years ago as well, I don't know how anyone is even getting married now here, it's crazy.



Dang! I guess I'll just have to pack it in and buy myself some cats for my spinsterhood. I just hope they don't eat me until I'm actually dead....


----------



## ntamph

I don't do online dating because I think you can learn more about a person by sitting across from them and talking to them (this is my style and I'm not saying people who go online are wrong).

I don't think I would be able to relate to someone from another culture and especially someone who doesn't have a firm grasp on English. I like to be more precise in my description of feelings.

I know that **** picks would make me angry too. Or "let's just be friends" messages in their hundreds. But going overseas would be tiring.


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Frank should take his banana to Mongolia.
Of course, it will be good for nothing but making banana bread or smoothies once the Mongolian men get done beating the cr*p out of him for making moves on their women, but no worries, after you get married and have a baby they will lay off.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Lon said:


> As a guy that was in a similar predicament as Frank, online dating with Western women sucks. Sure, you women have a lot of attention on there and don't have to sell your good qualities to find a man.
> 
> That is the point I think he is trying to make, that an average man gets overlooked every time.


Does an average looking man go for an average looking woman, or does he think he's entitled to an above average looking woman? And if he lowers himself to look at an average looking woman is it then her job to sell herself to his superior self?

I know a few people on dating sites right now and that's the general experience. One of my close friends is an attractive, successful American black woman and you wouldn't believe the losers that contact her.

As far as women of other countries, they are very often looking for someone to take care of them. What surprises me is how little men seem to get this. My dad spent a lot of time on dating sites, and he told me that if you don't have the stomach to see 100 losers for every decent one then online dating is not for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I would love to have an average nice guy.
I'm average myself.
The problem is that I'm just not willing to devote the time to indulge Average Man in a fantasy in order for me to be something other than average. Because it's not sustainable. Sooner or later I will have to become serious again about all the average things I do: grocery shopping, cooking, doing dishes, vacuuming, laundry, organizing my kids' medical appointments and extracurricular activities, even things like sleeping and wiping my ass.
We all know that Asian women would never do these things.
They are just too exotic to be doing any sh*t like that.


----------



## Betrayedone

Faithful Wife said:


> But Frank has no idea what sort of absolute SH*T manners most women have to deal with from men in online dating.
> 
> So his assumptions about "why" western women are like this on those sites is probably waaaaaaay off if he thinks we are just stuck up beeotches who don't think our poo stinks.


I happen to know that many of the inquiries women in the US get are perverts and weirdos......so if this is your definition of success, so be it.........Definitely not quality.....lots of being hit on . I have many QUALITY women friends who at least try to date seriously online and they are BOMBARDED with perverted proposals on a daily basis. So, you must be extremely lucky and/or different. I think Frank is onto something.......


----------



## Betrayedone

Betrayedone said:


> I happen to know that most of the inquiries women in the US get are perverts and weirdos......so if this is your definition of success, so be it.........Definitely not quality.....lots of being hit on . I have many QUALITY women friends who at least try to date seriously online and they are BOMBARDED with perverted proposals on a daily basis. So, you must be extremely lucky and/or different. I think Frank is onto something.......


I have experienced the rudeness of women online. Would it kill you to actually reply to an inquiry even if it is just to say "Thanks, but no thanks"? I have experienced a total lack of manners online........


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



lifeistooshort said:


> Does an average looking man go for an average looking woman, or does he think he's entitled to an above average looking woman? And if he lowers himself to look at an average looking woman is it then her job to sell herself to his superior self?
> 
> I know a few people on dating sites right now and that's the general experience. One of my close friends is an attractive, successful American black woman and you wouldn't believe the losers that contact her.
> 
> As far as women of other countries, they are very often looking for someone to take care of them. What surprises me is how little men seem to get this. My dad spent a lot of time on dating sites, and he told me that if you don't have the stomach to see 100 losers for every decent one then online dating is not for you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I was doing online dating I messaged any woman that seemed genuine and or interesting, many of them never even had profile pics, but I avoided ones that described themselves less than enthusiastically. I made sure to message the very good looking ones, but I also messaged atleast as many that were average or below in looks. I am pretty certain that to them I was just one among the hundred losers for every winner.

By the time I decided I was through wasting my time I sent friendly hellos to pretty much every profile in my city any where near my age group to see if I could at least get a few to glances at my profile or a reply. I think about 8 looked but none replied. it was kind of revolting human behavior, and so I realized that online dating is just something not meant for me.


----------



## FrenchFry

Betrayedone said:


> I have experienced the rudeness of women online. Would it kill you to actually reply to an inquiry even if it is just to say "Thanks, but no thanks"? I have experienced a total lack of manners online........





> "Sorry, I'm not interested" will bring "But why?"
> "Well, I like dogs and you like cats."
> "I had a dog once, it's not a dealbreaker."
> "I just don't think we have anything in common."
> "We've never even met. Give me a try. I know you'll like me."
> "Sorry, I'm not interested."
> "*****!"


If you search the webs, it seems evenly split on if it's rude to not reply at all to people on dating sites. When I was on there, I ignored the people I wasn't interested in because every single time I did the polite "no thank you," the above dialog took place (until I just learned to block after the no thanks.)


----------



## wise

When I was single AND bored, I would have profiles on numerous dating sites. At first, the hotter women were not that interested in me when I would send them a "hey beautiful" message. However, when summer rolled around and I added shirtless tan picks of myself, I did not have to say anything anymore. Those hotter girls were sending me "hey stud" messages.

The best was the "If you are looking for a fling--I'm not the woman." I met about 5 girls with those profiles from these sites and slept with each of them on that night. 

For a majority of the hotter girls online, all it takes is confidence and shirtless pics to meet up with them. For the less good looking, I have no idea what it takes due to a majority of them being just out right weird.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



FrenchFry said:


> If you search the webs, it seems evenly split on if it's rude to not reply at all to people on dating sites. When I was on there, I ignored the people I wasn't interested in because every single time I did the polite "no thank you," the above dialog took place (until I just learned to block after the no thanks.)


I suppose not replying sort of sends the same message as replying "no not interested". The same way that not making eye contact with the person at the bus stop prevents the highly undesirable requirement to utter "good morning".

Of course, I too would probably offend a woman who replied "no thanks" with an unwanted "ok, best wishes". No wonder the nice guys are so afraid of offending 

Simply ignoring after acknowledging first would certainly make the online dating world a lot friendlier though.


----------



## Nikita2270

Frank Banana said:


> The big problem with western women is that no one is good enough for them. That's actually what they believe. Notice how one poster here keeps going on about attraction, as though most men are ugly. To the average western female, if you're not Superman or Brad Pitt, you're scum. Thus they reject almost everyone. And that is what makes them unattractive to men. That attitude.
> 
> Reading the responses here it's so clear that these women here, and that includes the so called non western women, are severely butthurt by what has been said. A non western woman who comes to a western country is as good as ruined. With a few exceptions, but not many. The problem is that western culture corrodes and ruins women.
> 
> They think that any man who criticises western women must be a loser. Not true at all. The elephant in the room is that western women are no good for dating. And we're living in a time when more men are speaking up about this. And so they should.


The truth is that the reason that men like you dislike western culture is because women are simply able to function more independently inside of it. As such, women don't seek relationships where they are considered chattel to a man...they want partnerships. 

For a very long time, women weren't able to support themselves financially...so they sought to marry (often men that they didn't have any romantic feelings for) to gain stability...and men picked women based more on their youth and looks than their intellect. Things have changed. Western women have the luxury of choice. A lot of women in other countries have less choices because they have less ability to function independently in society.

So actually what you're hearing is women who answer you back, not because they necessarily find you charming and attractive but because they are looking for someone to latch on to for citizenship and financial needs. Nothing wrong with that but they aren't any different than western women once they get a green card. Believe me, your attitude about women is equally unattractive in every country in the world.

The simple fact is that you want subservience and you want someone to give you attention and respect that you clearly haven't earned. You should definitely stick to women in 3rd world countries for your dating prospects. It takes a more secure man to handle women that want partnerships and not a "daddy" figure.


----------



## Faithful Wife

When I said women (and myself) are doing just fine in online dating, what I mean is you weed through all the crap, you narrow down to a couple of real prospects based on your attraction to their pics and H/W first, then based on the profile...and then you go from there. Then you have a few dates and see how it goes, since no one knows anything for sure until you meet in person.

I am a dating coach and have seen the process numerous times and can easily say I know plenty of women with the same success. It does require weeding out the crap though. One of my clients just met a wonderful match online (with my help)...he is cute, buff and wealthy. Oh, so successful! They are on a 10 day cruise right now (his dime) and I'm sure there will be a proposal soon. 

When I say "crap" you have to wade through, I mean people who are not appropriate to be messaging you and the random sexual comments and pictures.

Just because THESE GUYS send women those messages, does not mean that the woman is not having success at online dating. How can we stop THEM from sending crap? I'm not even talking about "rude" or "manners" I mean straight up crap messages and pics, and dudes who think you'll just be soooo happy to hook up with them because they think YOU are hot. 

The fact that these messages come in isn't because we're losers. The messages come in because the guys who send them are losers. Not sure how you think you can turn that around but...just lolz atcha!

I'm happily married and haven't done OLD for 10 years, but through the coaching I still know what's going on. Same as it ever was. Success, yes...but only after wading through the crap.


----------



## Holland

Rudeness abounds everywhere, to say it is the realm of Western women is a such an absurd generalisation.

I had a blast online dating and was very successful with it. The thing is though that it can be very overwhelming as a female, I (like most other women) was bombarded with contact requests daily, many were simply playing it as a numbers game. OP you sound like one of those guys, playing a numbers game.
The more independent, self confident woman is not willing to and does not have to put up with that game. 
The amount of married men online dating is staggering then there are the creeps, the uneducated and the ones that use txt speak, no thanks to all of them.

Next problem is distance, I live in a big city and was only interested in meeting men that lived within a 15km radius maximum. When guys further afield sent requests I ignored them especially the ones from overseas.

I replied to those that looked interesting based on their profile, chatted briefly and then made a decision the next day whether to do a coffee meet or not.

You get out of it what you put in with OLD so OP if all you want is to crunch numbers and find a subservient woman then knock yourself out, sounds like you have found the type of woman you want.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Frank, I'm confused by your definition of "Western Countries." By that term you actually mean English speaking countries only. You do realize there many more countries than the UK, US and Australia included in that definition?


----------



## Lon

What I get out of this thread, and it is absolutely no surprise, is that OLD is vastly different for "most" women as it is for "most" men. I respect the process you ladies utilize in your successes. I am glad you can find your cute buff rich guys, because that frees up the field for the 40% of guys that are still above average that don't fall into the exceptionally charming category.

I'm not sure why the OP posted this comment in the ladies lounge rather than the men's clubhouse, perhaps he was trying to shine a light for those of you complaining about the overwhelmingness of OLD that there is a whole subset of good looking, kind and genuine men that are available right there which you do not seem to notice, and not for lack of initiation but for fear of...??

I can understand how the comparison to other cultures makes it seem as though subservient women is what the OP is seeking, but I've first hand experience interacting with women of other cultures, strong women that are not below men at all but from cultures that embrace sexual interactions more openly rather than cryptically and subtly, and I do personally find it very refreshing to see.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

FrenchFry said:


> :iagree:
> 
> This is still really funny to me:
> 
> 4 Things I Learned from the Worst Online Dating Profile Ever | Cracked.com
> 
> Aaron Carter's biggest fan gets massive amounts of messages a day.
> 
> YOLO!


The woman in her profile photo is very attractive, 25 year old, thin and college student. Men look at her photo and read the line "I'm looking for: *casual sex*" is all that is needed to ignore the rest of her profile. She even put the acceptable age range up to 60 years old! That is like asking for old men to bother her for sex.


----------



## Redpill

If you're not 6+ ft tall, with a muscular or athletic build and bringing in a 100k+ salary then you are sh*t outta luck. It is a well known fact that western women are VERY entitled - even the ones who are lucky to be a solid 4/10. 

I've also found that most western women lack any kind of domestic skills AT ALL.

Of course, you won't find many women here agreeing with you. Whenever you mention the fact that Eastern women are usually superior due to their traditional upbringing, everyone gets all butthurt.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut said:


> The woman in her profile photo is very attractive, 25 year old, thin and college student. Men look at her photo and read the line "I'm looking for: *casual sex*" is all that is needed to ignore the rest of her profile. She even put the acceptable age range up to 60 years old! That is like asking for old men to bother her for sex.


Yeah that profile oozes good girl rebelling and the face pic is of a totally attractive pretty face with a gorgeous smile. If I read the profile I would think total sarcasm and crazy sense of humour, she is either awesome in person or else a real circus act worth good entertainment money to witness in person. The fact that she spelled "Nobel" correctly in her text messages is a giveaway that the author actually has a brain. I wouldn't expect a reply either because based on looks she would be way out of my league and knows it.

If the author truly wanted the worst profile in the world she should have gotten a guy to write it, even with the best looking woman I could write a profile that would garner zero hits. Think, gangs, STDs, parole anklet, high maintenance, picking flowers, and b!itchy face. Anything asexual and or blatant connection to horrible consequence means it's not worth it. There are some guys who will try anyway and those are the real challenge to drive away.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Redpill...when Frank came in here to slap the faces of "western women", I'm happy to slap right back with "reality as I have seen it in person says that women are getting what they are looking for even if you didn't".

The men who b*tch about what b*tches women are, can expect b*tchy responses from women here on this thread he created and the way he created it. What should we have said? Oh you poor guy, I'm sure you're just so misunderstood and all those women should have messaged you, those silly "western girls".

Bah! Right.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

Lon said:


> Yeah that profile oozes good girl rebelling and the face pic is of a totally attractive pretty face with a gorgeous smile. If I read the profile I would think total sarcasm and crazy sense of humour, she is either awesome in person or else a real circus act worth good entertainment money to witness in person. *The fact that she spelled "Nobel" correctly in her text messages is a giveaway that the author actually has a brain.* I wouldn't expect a reply either because based on looks she would be way out of my league and knows it.
> 
> If the author truly wanted the worst profile in the world she should have gotten a guy to write it, even with the best looking woman I could write a profile that would garner zero hits. Think, gangs, STDs, parole anklet, high maintenance, picking flowers, and b!itchy face. Anything asexual and or blatant connection to horrible consequence means it's not worth it. There are some guys who will try anyway and those are the real challenge to drive away.


I think you lost me with the bolded part.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lon, about the lovely ladies of other cultures, I totally agree it is true. I believe there are wonderful people in every culture. I'm not trying to say or show that "western women" are better than other cultures. I'm simply responding to the OP with the same amount of ridiculous-ness that he is delivering and the same amount of snark.

In reality, the nice people find each other, in all cultures, and all dating sites.

Which is what I forgot to say about my client and her new beau...they are both very nice and not mean to people and expectant and entitled. They are wonderful people, they both believed in love, and they found it. You see, I actually believe in (and see) fairy tales happening.

But when someone comes in so rudely insulting whole groups of "loser western women", I've got a snarky response to every single word of it. Because, why not? I don't see the need to be polite when people didn't want to discuss this politely to begin with.

Also Lon, I felt the same way you did about the fake OLD profile with the smiling blonde who would date up to 60. It was like, really? You were surprised that they talked to her "even though" she had STDs? Silly.


----------



## Faithful Wife

By the way Redpill...I have no domestic skills and yet still I am married to the man of my dreams, who is a hunk and also a Sex God. Why am I so entitled? Because I know how to truly love him, inside, outside, upside down and backwards. I'm a real woman with real depth and soul, and he's a real man with everything I'm looking for. So what I'm entitled to is exactly what I can dish. It isn't really that confusing. Men and women both want sex and love, and they will find it when they are serious about it.


----------



## Redpill

Oh, and I forgot to add - if you're a male with anything less than a 9 inch penis then don't bother sending in your boyfriend application. Auto-rejected.

Probably why more women are choosing to stay single. They are all trying to go after a small portion of the male population that are doctors, CEO's, lawyers, etc. and they ignore the average man because they consider him "boring" or "too nice" and "considerate". 

Enjoy your single lifestyle ladies. Good luck to any man who tries to meet your ever-raising bar of standards. I guess that is why some men "hit it and quit it".


----------



## Faithful Wife

Yes, with that attitude, good luck indeed.


----------



## MRABoysHaveSmallPeanut

This became yet another penis thread, then?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Every thread like this is a penis thread.


----------



## Holland

Redpill said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add - if you're a male with anything less than a 9 inch penis then don't bother sending in your boyfriend application. Auto-rejected.
> 
> Probably why more women are choosing to stay single. They are all trying to go after a small portion of the male population that are doctors, CEO's, lawyers, etc. and they ignore the average man because they consider him "boring" or "too nice" and "considerate".
> 
> Enjoy your single lifestyle ladies. Good luck to any man who tries to meet your ever-raising bar of standards. I guess that is why some men "hit it and quit it".


I would hazard a guess that your attitude is your biggest problem.

I totally agree FW, like finds like. The good ones do find each other, living the dream here.

BTW I do have good domestic skills but I also have solid self esteem, my own money, love sex, am attractive, intelligent and most importantly I know what I don't want. Sorry but a bitter, jaded, self loathing man is not remotely interesting.

When people do OLD there should be no expectation on either side. There is no obligation for anyone to respond or contact anyone else, it is a voluntary thing, if people are not getting the responses they think they should be then maybe they should have their profile objectively reviewed by a friend.
Most profiles rate a 3/10 which is a shame because the person behind it might be much better IRL.


----------



## Frank Banana

Redpill said:


> If you're not 6+ ft tall, with a muscular or athletic build and bringing in a 100k+ salary then you are sh*t outta luck. It is a well known fact that western women are VERY entitled - even the ones who are lucky to be a solid 4/10.
> 
> I've also found that most western women lack any kind of domestic skills AT ALL.
> 
> Of course, you won't find many women here agreeing with you. Whenever you mention the fact that Eastern women are usually superior due to their traditional upbringing, everyone gets all butthurt.


It's true I've seen a lot of ugly western women whose profile reads like an entitled princess. 

By contrast, I've seen profiles of asian women who say that they're not that good looking and they know it but that they have other qualities. Can you imagine a western woman saying that? The irony is that those asian women who say they're not that good looking are actually really quite nice. And they have good personalities. 

There are so many misconceptions about asian and other foreign women, it's ridiculous. Many of them are in fact very intelligent, they have jobs, and they don't even mention leaving their country. The truth is that they like where they are and have little or no intention of leaving. 

Notice how the western women here are talking out of both sides of their mouths. On the one side they claim to speak for all women, including foreign women, and try to portray an impression of solidarity, and then from the other side they insult those foreign women by insinuating that they are desperate golddiggers looking for a green card. 

Another misconception is that they speak hardly any english. Again, not true. In some cases they speak better english that some english people. I don't know what mudhuts these western females imagine asians live in. Perhaps they've never heard of Manila or Bangkok. Maybe they think asians don't go to school or travel or learn other languages. The truth is that these western women here are racists. 

And here we go...another misconception. Subservience. Yep, these western females actually think that we western men who seek quality women are looking for a little maid or a slave. Where are they pulling this from? Their asses, that's where. 

You would think that maybe the married western women here would feel little to no emotion in response to this thread because if you're happy you don't care what other people think or say. But look around. You have western married females here trying to portray themselves as happy. One of them has even said that she doesn't have any domestic skills. What kind of independent adult has no domestic skills? Everyone, men and women, should be able to look after their house, and this female almost takes pride in being incompetent in that area.


----------



## ntamph

Redpill said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add - if you're a male with anything less than a 9 inch penis then don't bother sending in your boyfriend application. Auto-rejected.



:rofl:


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



Holland said:


> I totally agree FW, like finds like. The good ones do find each other, living the dream here.


Not disagreeing with your comment at all, But this part about like finding like is the sole reason I responded to the thread, because for me and many other guys, that never happened using OLD. I figured if I was authentic, myself, patient, willing to take a risk, and getting help from friends to portray my qualities they see, I would surely at least make a friend or meet someone new, like me. Well I did meet one, and there was spark, but she was a train wreck and nothing like me at all. I did learn from it though.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lon, I believe you said you are in a rural area?

Online dating is always harder in those areas. But also sometimes it just doesn't work out for some people. The same way that in real life meeting doesn't work for some but does for others. So even if you or any other individual doesn't have success in one area, it doesn't always mean it is because there is just no match for you online. There are a lot of other factors.

There is a lot to dating and attracting a mate...a LOT. And sometimes if you just aren't meeting someone at all it is because you still have work to do on yourself first. I'm not saying that was your case, just saying it is true for a lot of people.


----------



## FrenchFry

For real though, if you are going to be a caricature, you are going to get spoken to like a caricature. Shine on you crazy diamond. Also passively talking about people in the third person is really attractive as well.

I can see the part about her being cute being enough to attract a lot of prospective hits. That's how it works. What always gets me is during the conversations she:

*insinuates she will use pregnancy to get out of things.
*will pull your teeth out
*is a total gold digger

and it still gets the shrug. I honestly think if she kept the same picture and said anything about convictions gangs and whatnot, she'd still get a lot of replies. For me, it's not about the indictment of men, it's about what a crazy landscape online dating is. 

Really though, please read expat forums to get a fuller picture of what dating and marriage is like overseas. I read them a lot because expatriating is a dream of mine and shock of all shocks, there is good and bad in different countries as well. If you really think an entire culture is against you it's probably time to take a look in the mirror.

Or don't and keep raging against western women. As far as getting attention, you've succeeded there! Please, keep on letting us know how horrible we are. Our little hearts can't take it.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

It's interesting this thread was placed in the ladies lounge when the OP clearly has no interest in a woman's point of view.


----------



## Rowan

The one he started in the Men's Clubhouse should also be fun.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Ah yes the one with lots of views and no comments Also interesting RedPill and OP showed up around the same time talking the same exact views.


----------



## FrenchFry

This would not be the first time TAM has had an MGTOW invasion! Girdle your loins!

(or don't, just don't get banned over silliness.)


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I'm sorry Lon and RedPill (or should you be BitterPill?) that you've had those experiences. Although a woman, I've had a lot of the same reactions from men.

I would get a Hi, or Hello, I would respond and more often than not, they were looking for fresh meat and simply fishing. Whereas usually the guys who at least wrote one complete sentence and asked one question appeared more sincere. Either way I always responded. 

There seemed to be a correlation between how much effort they put into a first message to how much effort they wanted to put into a relationship. That is, if they sent one word replies they usually quickly wanted to go to IMs and sex talk. I could tell the ones who were genuinely interested and I always checked their profile. Very often I would reply with "I'm sorry but you live 500 miles away. Are you relocating?" (They aren't.) Or "I'm sorry but you say God is the most important thing in your life - you must have missed where I'm agnostic." I'd give them a reason at least for the rejection. 

I really hated the "hi, baby" or "ur so hot" or other pick up lines.

And on the reverse, if I messaged a guy first, I would try to comment on something in their profile. If they were interested, they would reply with something of substance in return but I've also gotten a simple "Thanks" if I complimented something like a picture with their dog. 

Generally I found if I treated the men I communicated with kindly and respectfully that I got the same in return.

When I weeded through the replies and finally found someone that I had enough in common with that I was willing to meet, I had a lot of first dates and they were genuine - that is recent photos and no huge lies tho most men add an inch to their height. And I admit I have two shallow checkboxes: decent teeth (not perfect but take care of them) and an inch or two taller so I usually only went out with guys 5'9" or so. It's a feeling secure thing for women, I think. If they are at least a little bigger they can protect me. 

But it's no different for men. They'll have a belly hanging over their belt and describe themselves as "average" and want a woman who was "athletic" or "slender" which I always felt indicated there was a bit of denial there. If they are looking for a quality woman, they will have to allow for a little grey area. I understand there are women on there who are quite round and frumpy and looking for a stud and think they are "worth it" because they are nice human beings but for every one of those there are also men who are equally vain and entitled.

I think like people eventually find like people for the most part but it takes some weeding out for sure.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Probably telling that most of the male b!tchers are either single or miserable and married, while most of us "western women" are happily married to just what we want. Keep whining, as of now you're still single and can't find what you want.

Except Lon, he at least has the capacity to discuss things. For this reason I suspect Lon will eventually find a decent woman, so I hope he keeps his head up  

I think the biggest issue with online dating, as far as i've seen, is that it essentially removes the initial human connection you get when you first meet someone, and becomes a custom shopping experience. When you meet someone in person and make a connection, you aren't necessarily worried about a big laundry list of qualities. The OP b!tched that a woman had the nerve to talk about her hobbies rather than sell herself to him, and this confirms that he views online dating as a shopping trip where he can order and customize what he wants and she'll magically appear. Except that human relationships are much more complex. By all means go to Asia, maybe the ladies there will realize what a great catch you really are.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ntamph

lifeistooshort said:


> I think the biggest issue with online dating, as far as i've seen, is that it essentially removes the initial human connection you get when you first meet someone, and becomes a custom shopping experience. When you meet someone in person and make a connection, you aren't necessarily worried about a big laundry list of qualities.


This.

Both genders can become items in a shopping scenario online. I would want that human connection first.

When you think that an entire culture is after you or a huge number of people are after you (like an entire gender) then it's a bad sign. You can take a red pill but it's not the one most of the guys here are thinking.


----------



## Faithful Wife

ntamph...You have come a long way. You used to sound like Redpill. I was worried about you when you first came here. Now, you really "get it".


----------



## EnjoliWoman

That's why I like to meet fairly quickly. I understand I live in a city and those in rural areas might not be able to do so as easily but once the very basics are covered (I don't have a huge check list - I'm looking for personality, interests and lifestyle compatibility) then I want to meet briefly to see if there is a physical connection.


----------



## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



lifeistooshort said:


> Except Lon, he at least has the capacity to discuss things. For this reason I suspect Lon will eventually find a decent woman, so I hope he keeps his head up


Well thank you for the compliment  and I am in a relationship with an amazing woman who is certainly my type. I was just surprised when I was trying to online date that I could barely get a single hello back, especially in my small but vibrant prairie city of 300,000 people.


----------



## lifeistooshort

EnjoliWoman said:


> That's why I like to meet fairly quickly. I understand I live in a city and those in rural areas might not be able to do so as easily but once the very basics are covered (I don't have a huge check list - I'm looking for personality, interests and lifestyle compatibility) then I want to meet briefly to see if there is a physical connection.



My dad used to say that.....that you should try to meet for coffee asap. He felt that a lot of people online weren't really looking for a relationship; they're often married, its an ego boost, or its just a fantasy thing. If they won't meet then forget them.
Also, you don't tend to meet many people at once in the outside world, so you can give a small number of people a lot of consideration. With online dating you get inundated, and are more likely to miss good people because of the sheer numbers involved.

My hb us older than me, and if I had simply seen his profile I might have ignored it. But we met (not through online dating) and had an instant connection; in the 9 years we've been together I haven't seriously contemplated another man (well beyond yeah he's hot because I'm not dead). None of this would've happened without the human connection.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Redpill

Faithful Wife said:


> ntamph...You have come a long way. You used to sound like Redpill. I was worried about you when you first came here. Now, you really "get it".


So as long as he subscribes to your misguided beliefs about women and relationships, he "gets it". And if he disagree's, he's clearly bitter & jaded. 

I've noticed a lot of American women tend to get very defensive when the positive qualities of Eastern women from countries like the Ukraine, Vietnam, Thailand, or China are mentioned. Women from those countries are undoubtedly much more traditional. They are raised from birth being taught how to make a man happy and how to properly run a household, WHILE raising children. 

I was actually in a relationship years ago were I worked 60-65 hours per week and she expected me when I came home to do 50% of the housework too. I didn't know whether to laugh or show her where the door was. Obviously it was the latter.

I don't think I could find a woman in the USA that would be capable of making me a turkey sandwich.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Redpill said:


> I don't think I could find a woman in the USA that would be capable of making me a turkey sandwich.


Oh I'm just sooooo HURT by this....waaaahhhh!!! What a horrid insult to us USA women. snif snif Oh pleeeassseee take it back, I'm so SAD now...... 




LOL! :rofl:


----------



## AnnieAsh

I don't get it? You want to go overseas and find a woman? Go. And if your wedding has an open bar and make-your-own-crepe station, INVITE ME! Be happy. Be well. 

But why the hatred, the assumptions, the tearing down of western women? 

I married a guy who didn't make $100k (heh he made about $15k when we got together) he IS 6ft 1 but he's also balding, a LARPing, D&D nerd, and I find him to be the sexiest man alive. He DEFINITELY doesn't have a 9in penis. He's an average American nerd and he's mine. 

RedPill and Frank, in the name of all western women, I release you. Go. Be free!


----------



## AnnieAsh

Redpill said:


> I don't think I could find a woman in the USA that would be capable of making me a turkey sandwich.


With or without the arsenic laced mayo, sweetums? 

I KID, I KID! I'd never poison a guy who hasn't made the the sole beneficiary of his life insurance.


----------



## ScarletBegonias

Redpill said:


> So as long as he subscribes to your misguided beliefs about women and relationships, he "gets it". And if he disagree's, he's clearly bitter & jaded.
> 
> I've noticed a lot of American women tend to get very defensive when the positive qualities of Eastern women from countries like the Ukraine, Vietnam, Thailand, or China are mentioned. Women from those countries are undoubtedly much more traditional. They are raised from birth being taught how to make a man happy and how to properly run a household, WHILE raising children.
> 
> I was actually in a relationship years ago where I worked 60-65 hours per week and she expected me when I came home to do 50% of the housework too. I didn't know whether to laugh or show her where the door was. Obviously it was the latter.
> 
> I don't think I could find a woman in the USA that would be capable of making me a turkey sandwich.


Well now that depends.Do you want the sandwich on white,wheat,rye,pumpernickel or sourdough? I can tell you I'll outright refuse to make you a sandwich on white bread if that's your idea of a good sandwich. Don't even get me started on choices of cheese.Some people simply do NOT understand how to choose the proper cheese for their meal. 

Regarding the other stuff...I can respect and appreciate women from all over the world.They don't threaten me in the least.Yes,their lifestyle might be different from mine but the goal is the same. The desire to be happy and fulfilled is universal. How could I begrudge them of doing what they can to be happy? If it makes them happy to cater to a man then so be it!
I enjoy catering to my man but will end that if he doesn't return the favor with equal enthusiasm.

Also,a "properly" run household looks different to everyone so I'm not really sure how you can say they know how to properly run a household.There is no set magical way to run a happy home. 

I sincerely hope you leave this country,if you are in the US,and find a lovely woman to care for you. Hopefully you don't take it for granted if you ever find it.


----------



## COGypsy

Redpill said:


> I don't think I could find a woman in the USA that would be capable of making me a turkey sandwich.


Dude, there's a Subway on practically every corner. I'm sure that there are plenty of women in there trained specifically in the making of turkey sandwiches.

Some of them even deliver!


----------



## ntamph

Redpill said:


> So as long as he subscribes to your misguided beliefs about women and relationships, he "gets it". And if he disagree's, he's clearly bitter & jaded.


There's nothing shameful about admitting that you can be wrong on some things and then graciously accepting people's help when it is offered.


----------



## Redpill

ntamph said:


> There's nothing shameful about admitting that you can be wrong on some things and then graciously accepting people's help when it is offered.


Only that you were right before, and now you are wrong. You've allowed yourself to be indoctrinated by the sisterhood (ie: it's your fault, man up, you need to do more for your woman, etc.). I've read through lots of your earlier posts and they made a lot of sense - it looked like someone who actually "gets it". 

People change though I guess.


----------



## ntamph

Redpill said:


> Only that you were right before, and now you are wrong. You've allowed yourself to be indoctrinated by the sisterhood (ie: it's your fault, man up, you need to do more for your woman, etc.). I've read through lots of your earlier posts and they made a lot of sense - it looked like someone who actually "gets it".
> 
> Oh well. I've said my piece on this thread.


I was miserable and single when I wrote those earlier posts.

I don't "do things" much differently than before, but my mentality has changed. I don't see women as the enemy and I see them individually for who they are.

I'm very happy with my American GF.


----------



## Miss Independent

Redpill why are you bitter?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Taking the red pill causes anger, paranoia and indigestion.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh I'm just sooooo HURT by this....waaaahhhh!!! What a horrid insult to us USA women. snif snif Oh pleeeassseee take it back, I'm so SAD now......
> 
> LOL! :rofl:


I suppose its blasphemy to suggest he could make his own turkey sandwich? My hb would say that given all of my good qualities he can make his own sandwich. 

Oh well, big loss for western womankind.....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ScarletBegonias

My Dh couldn't make a decent turkey sandwich if he tried.I don't even think he can properly hard boil an egg and he burns toast every time. 
I think I should have chosen a non western man. 


What? They can't make meals either?? Well,sh*t. 

I guess next time I'll marry a non western female then so SOMEONE can take care of me for once damn it!


----------



## lifeistooshort

Mine makes good sandwiches, but he says mine are better. Probably because he wants me to do it for him, which I happily do because he's not a d0uche. Maybe therein lies the problem for some posters?
Do non western women have a higher d0uche tolerance?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rowan

I live just outside a university town. We have a local company I can call that will deliver anything from any restaurant in town - even those that don't deliver. So, I can get a turkey sandwich delivered. 

Or a bacon wrapped filet with a side of ancho dusted sweet potato fries and baby spinach salad. Or a big slab of death by chocolate with crème anglaise and sliced strawberries. Or a plate of shrimp and grits from the place that uses the imported parm in the grits. Or still-warm bourbon-pecan bread pudding. Or....

Sorry, I skipped lunch.


----------



## ntamph

If I had a dollar for every time that I tried to make a turkey sandwich I'd have one dollar.


----------



## ocotillo

I have a good friend whose wife passed away about three years ago and he's looking to start dating again.

His experience with eHarmony and similar sites is almost identical with the OP. He's actually shown me some of the stuff. --Just horrible.

I don't think it's a flaw in Western women; I think it's a flaw in the impersonality of the internet itself. 

I've told him, "For crying out loud, _____. You can go to Lowe's on most Saturday mornings and meet someone." 

(I'm not even that observant a person and I can see that ladies go there deliberately to meet men.)

Personally, I don't think there is any substitute for the thrill of eyes meeting from across the room.


----------



## ntamph

ocotillo said:


> (I'm not even that observant a person and I can see that ladies go there deliberately to meet men.)




This explains so much............


----------



## Caribbean Man

ocotillo said:


> I have a good friend whose wife passed away about three years ago and he's looking to start dating again.
> 
> His experience with eHarmony and similar sites is almost identical with the OP. He's actually shown me some of the stuff. --Just horrible.
> 
> I don't think it's a flaw in Western women;* I think it's a flaw in the impersonality of the internet itself. **I've told him, "For crying out loud, _____. You can go to Lowe's on most Saturday mornings and meet someone." *
> I'm not even that observant a person and *I can see that ladies go there deliberately to meet men*.


:iagree:


Or even to the mall.

Lol, maybe I too, could become a _dating coach_?


----------



## ocotillo

ntamph said:


> This explains so much............


I'd be more than happy to flesh that out. What's unclear?


----------



## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

Most deli meat in the US is processed slime prone to salmonella.
You want a turkey sandwich, be sweet and I'll get an organic turkey from a local farm, roast it and then slice it off to make a proper sandwich on homemade bread. I'll even make the mayo from scratch. I'll put it on a nice plate and even walk over to serve it to you, and offer to get you a drink as well.

But in order to do this, I must love you and you must love me.
As I'm an American western woman, certain people are just out of luck on this one. Too bad for them.


----------



## Rowan

I spend a lot of time - and money - at Lowe's on the weekends. Now I'm a little afraid there's a group of regulars who thinks I'm there all the time deliberately trying to meet men. 

I'm actually re-doing a house, I swear!


----------



## ntamph

ocotillo said:


> I'd be more than happy to flesh that out. What's unclear?


I now know why women have tapped my shoulder and stood close to me while asking long, confused questions about window blinds.


----------



## Rowan

ntamph said:


> I now know why women have tapped my shoulder and stood close to me while asking long, confused questions about window blinds.


:rofl:


----------



## FrenchFry

> Mine makes good sandwiches, but he says mine are better.


*All* sandwiches taste better when someone else makes them. Men have been holding on to that secret for way too long! Which is why I have handed over turkey sandwich duties.

Grilled cheese is still mine though.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> *All* sandwiches taste better when someone else makes them. Men have been holding on to that secret for way too long! Which is why I have handed over turkey sandwich duties.
> 
> Grilled cheese is still mine though.


I make ALL sandwiches in my house.
My wife _asks me _to make her a sandwich.
I never ask my wife to make me a sandwich. Nobody can make a sandwich to please me.

That's why I don't eat Subway or Quizzinos.


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## ocotillo

ntamph said:


> I now know why women have tapped my shoulder and stood close to me while asking long, confused questions about window blinds.


LOL - I would point out that women aren't stupid. They understand the concept of a "Target rich environment" every bit as well as men do. You can go to almost any female oriented dating advice site and home improvement outlets will be pretty high on the list of places to find men.

But I can't speak to your personal experience. Did they at some point in the conversation make a seemingly oblique comment about not being able to think on an empty stomach, etc.?


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## ocotillo

FrenchFry said:


> *All* sandwiches taste better when someone else makes them.


Why is that, I wonder?


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## Rowan

ocotillo said:


> LOL - I would point out that women aren't stupid. They understand the concept of a "Target rich environment" every bit as well as men do. You can go to almost any female oriented dating advice site and home improvement outlets will be pretty high on the list of places to find men.


I think I'm not very good at being a girl. It had, quite honestly, never occurred to me to try to meet men at Lowe's, or that other women might be doing just that. I just always assumed that everyone was legitimately there to buy project supplies. :slap:


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## Frank Banana

ocotillo said:


> I have a good friend whose wife passed away about three years ago and he's looking to start dating again.
> 
> His experience with eHarmony and similar sites is almost identical with the OP. He's actually shown me some of the stuff. --Just horrible.
> 
> I don't think it's a flaw in Western women; I think it's a flaw in the impersonality of the internet itself.
> 
> I've told him, "For crying out loud, _____. You can go to Lowe's on most Saturday mornings and meet someone."
> 
> (I'm not even that observant a person and I can see that ladies go there deliberately to meet men.)
> 
> Personally, I don't think there is any substitute for the thrill of eyes meeting from across the room.



On the surface, what you're saying would appear to make sense, for the simple reason that the internet can and often does bring out the worst in people. 

But when you make comparisons between different cultures, you learn pretty fast that when it comes to dating it's not the internet. It's cultural differences. 

This isn't about online dating V any other kind of dating, this is about the observations which I and many other guys have made about the differences between western females and women from certain other cultures. 

I would suggest to your friend that if he wants to find someone, he should abandon western women and try out women from other parts of the world. And I'm not talking about foreign women in whichever western (I assume) country he and you live in. I mean foreign women in their own countries. 

The women here are bitter and everything they say is based on their bitterness. Forget them. They speak nonsense. They're butthurt because western men are and have been abandoning western women and will continue to do so. I feel sorry for their daughters because as the word spreads among men that they do in fact have huge options abroad, those daughters will be left with next to nothing. 

Every time I read a post by a woman here saying how happy she is, I laugh. Don't listen to them when they claim that all foreign women want green cards and are poor and desperate, and stupid and uneducated.


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## samyeagar

Faithful Wife said:


> I think the bottom line in these discussions is this: If she doesn't think you're hot, she's not going to respond, no matter what you say in your message.
> 
> Now, in some cases there will be an exception.
> 
> But mostly not.
> 
> So that's really your answer, guys.
> 
> YES, women place a high value on looks.
> 
> Get that into your heads, please.


Have not even come close to reading this whole thread, but my experience on Match.com which was the only site I joined...I got more unsolicited messages from women than I sent. I met my STBW on there...she messaged me first. I was the only man she took the initiative to message first her whole time there.


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## ntamph

Frank Banana said:


> On the surface, what you're saying would appear to make sense, for the simple reason that the internet can and often does bring out the worst in people.
> 
> But when you make comparisons between different cultures, you learn pretty fast that when it comes to dating it's not the internet. It's cultural differences.
> 
> This isn't about online dating V any other kind of dating, this is about the observations which I and many other guys have made about the differences between western females and women from certain other cultures.
> 
> I would suggest to your friend that if he wants to find someone, he should abandon western women and try out women from other parts of the world. And I'm not talking about foreign women in whichever western (I assume) country he and you live in. I mean foreign women in their own countries.
> 
> The women here are bitter and everything they say is based on their bitterness. Forget them. They speak nonsense. They're butthurt because western men are and have been abandoning western women and will continue to do so. I feel sorry for their daughters because as the word spreads among men that they do in fact have huge options abroad, those daughters will be left with next to nothing.
> 
> Every time I read a post by a woman here saying how happy she is, I laugh. Don't listen to them when they claim that all foreign women want green cards and are poor and desperate, and stupid and uneducated.


Even if what you are saying is true, only a handful of men have the resources available to them to go abroad.

I'm not saying that online dating is the best way to go (in my opinion it isn't) but sweeping generalizations won't get you anywhere.

There are successful, normal relationships between American men and foreign women but in my experience they occur because a couple just clicked with each other and not because the man went looking for a certain "product."


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## Miss Independent

Frank Banana said:


> On the surface, what you're saying would appear to make sense, for the simple reason that the internet can and often does bring out the worst in people.
> 
> But when you make comparisons between different cultures, you learn pretty fast that when it comes to dating it's not the internet. It's cultural differences.
> 
> This isn't about online dating V any other kind of dating, this is about the observations which I and many other guys have made about the differences between western females and women from certain other cultures.
> 
> I would suggest to your friend that if he wants to find someone, he should abandon western women and try out women from other parts of the world. And I'm not talking about foreign women in whichever western (I assume) country he and you live in. I mean foreign women in their own countries.
> 
> The women here are bitter and everything they say is based on their bitterness. Forget them. They speak nonsense. They're butthurt because western men are and have been abandoning western women and will continue to do so. I feel sorry for their daughters because as the word spreads among men that they do in fact have huge options abroad, those daughters will be left with next to nothing.
> 
> Every time I read a post by a woman here saying how happy she is, I laugh. Don't listen to them when they claim that all foreign women want green cards and are poor and desperate, and stupid and uneducated.



You're putting words in people's mouth. No one here said that foreign women are stupid, uneducated and poor. I'm a foreign woman and I wouldn't date you because you're bitter, rude and a woman basher. By the way I'm considered smart and have always made the honor list in my college. I've always been successful in school. What you don't understand is that why a woman would want to "date" a man on the internet who lives on the other side of the ocean when she can get a man in her city. Stop being bitter it's unattractive


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## ntamph

samyeagar said:


> Have not even come close to reading this whole thread, but my experience on Match.com which was the only site I joined...I got more unsolicited messages from women than I sent. I met my STBW on there...she messaged me first. I was the only man she took the initiative to message first her whole time there.


Sausage Fest or Taco Fiesta? Compare Dating Sites by Gender Odds


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## Frank Banana

ntamph said:


> Even if what you are saying is true, only a handful of men have the resources available to them to go abroad.
> 
> I'm not saying that online dating is the best way to go (in my opinion it isn't) but sweeping generalizations won't get you anywhere.
> 
> There are successful, normal relationships between American men and foreign women but in my experience they occur because a couple just clicked with each other and not because the man went looking for a certain "product."


Yes I understand that not all men can go abroad. But have you tried chatting with foreign women (who live in their own country, or at least not in a western country) on dating sites? If you tried it, you would soon make the exact same generalizations as I am making. There's nothing wrong with making generalizations so long as they're based on observation. 

I don't know why you're using the word product. You're trying to make it sound as though men who seek foreign women are like picky consumers looking to order something. The only difference between seeking a western woman and seeking a foreign woman is that with a foreign woman you're far more likely to get a good one. No one is a product, we're all human, but some humans are better than others. They really are. Western women are substandard. 

Seeking a foreign woman isn't like ordering something from amazon. It's about a real person wanting the company of another real person, a good person. 

But unfortunately, western women stopped living up to normal standards of what a woman should be a long time ago. 

Instead of arguing from a position of ignorance (I'm not insulting you, I just mean that you don't know), why not give it a shot, or tell your friend to try. Sometimes you have to try something out to see things from a different point of view. You might just find that it's a major eye opener. 

If you were to create a profile on one of the major dating sites, and then simultaneously send messages to western women and foreign women, I can guarantee you that you'll see what I mean well within 30 mins. Then you'll scratch your head and think wow. 

Don't listen to stupid people who have no interest in your happiness. That includes spoiled, westernized foreign women in western countries.


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## ntamph

Frank Banana said:


> Yes I understand that not all men can go abroad. But have you tried chatting with foreign women (who live in their own country, or at least not in a western country) on dating sites? If you tried it, you would soon make the exact same generalizations as I am making. There's nothing wrong with making generalizations so long as they're based on observation.
> 
> I don't know why you're using the word product. You're trying to make it sound as though men who seek foreign women are like picky consumers looking to order something. The only difference between seeking a western woman and seeking a foreign woman is that with a foreign woman you're far more likely to get a good one. No one is a product, we're all human, but some humans are better than others. They really are. Western women are substandard.
> 
> Seeking a foreign woman isn't like ordering something from amazon. It's about a real person wanting the company of another real person, a good person.
> 
> But unfortunately, western women stopped living up to normal standards of what a woman should be a long time ago.
> 
> Instead of arguing from a position of ignorance (I'm not insulting you, I just mean that you don't know), why not give it a shot, or tell your friend to try. Sometimes you have to try something out to see things from a different point of view. You might just find that it's a major eye opener.
> 
> If you were to create a profile on one of the major dating sites, and then simultaneously send messages to western women and foreign women, I can guarantee you that you'll see what I mean well within 30 mins. Then you'll scratch your head and think wow.
> 
> Don't listen to stupid people who have no interest in your happiness. That includes spoiled, westernized foreign women in western countries.


Sausage Fest or Taco Fiesta? Compare Dating Sites by Gender Odds

Click on the gender % tab to rank the sites from most men to least men. Notice something about the sites with too many men?


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## Miss Independent

Frank Banana said:


> There's nothing wrong with making generalizations so long as they're based on observation QUOTE]
> 
> Says who?


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## samyeagar

spinsterdurga said:


> Frank Banana said:
> 
> 
> 
> There's nothing wrong with making generalizations so long as they're based on observation QUOTE]
> 
> Says who?
> 
> 
> 
> That's the whole point behind the bell curve and statistical analysis. The numbers don't lie...just the interpreters.
Click to expand...


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



samyeagar said:


> Have not even come close to reading this whole thread, but my experience on Match.com which was the only site I joined...I got more unsolicited messages from women than I sent. I met my STBW on there...she messaged me first. I was the only man she took the initiative to message first her whole time there.


Would you say that was an ego boost?


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## ntamph

Apparently eHarmony is the place to be for men.


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## samyeagar

Lon said:


> Would you say that was an ego boost?


Maybe, but not really. I was looking for something very specific, and a lot of it was just noise to me. I guess it helped me that I was not approaching it from a position of desperation.


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## Caribbean Man

You guys should try latinamericancupid.com.


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## Lon

*Re: Re: My experience of online dating*



ntamph said:


> Sausage Fest or Taco Fiesta? Compare Dating Sites by Gender Odds


That is not really an effective statistics to have... What matters is how many first dates and the distribution of number of first dates. In other words, some women are getting some dates with the equal number of men (using the straight orientation comparison) But are those same women getting the same total number of first dates as those same guys? If not then it means that there is a variation among how easy it is for different people and/or genders. A male/female ratio is no indication of the odds of scoring a date.


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## Redpill

ntamph said:


> Sausage Fest or Taco Fiesta? Compare Dating Sites by Gender Odds
> 
> Click on the gender % tab to rank the sites from most men to least men. Notice something about the sites with too many men?


I clicked on the gender tab and looked at the websites with the most females.. hmm *SURPRISE SURPRISE.. HERE ARE THE RESULTS*:

SeekingMillionaire.com 27% male *73% female*
Sugardaddie.com 34% male *65% female*
WealthyMen.com 31% male *69% female*

Bottom line is, most women are looking for someone to support them. So much for these "liberated" and "empowered" and "independent" feminists!


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## Deejo

Why the hell is this in the Ladies Lounge?


*Relocated


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## ocotillo

Frank Banana said:


> On the surface, what you're saying would appear to make sense, for the simple reason that the internet can and often does bring out the worst in people.
> 
> But when you make comparisons between different cultures, you learn pretty fast that when it comes to dating it's not the internet. It's cultural differences.
> 
> This isn't about online dating V any other kind of dating, this is about the observations which I and many other guys have made about the differences between western females and women from certain other cultures.
> 
> I would suggest to your friend that if he wants to find someone, he should abandon western women and try out women from other parts of the world. And I'm not talking about foreign women in whichever western (I assume) country he and you live in. I mean foreign women in their own countries.
> 
> The women here are bitter and everything they say is based on their bitterness. Forget them. They speak nonsense. They're butthurt because western men are and have been abandoning western women and will continue to do so. I feel sorry for their daughters because as the word spreads among men that they do in fact have huge options abroad, those daughters will be left with next to nothing.
> 
> Every time I read a post by a woman here saying how happy she is, I laugh. Don't listen to them when they claim that all foreign women want green cards and are poor and desperate, and stupid and uneducated.



I've always been fascinated with British culture, especially what seems to be your superior command of the English language, but have never visited the UK. I can't argue with your personal experience and wouldn't want to anyway.

I don't see women in the U.S. as being a single homogenous group. The ladies you meet at church are going to be different than those you meet at a club and those you meet at a club are going to be different than those you meet at a garden society.

My friend eventually took note of the fact that 8 out of 10 of the people people walking their dogs at a nearby greenbelt were female. He got back into dating simply by adopting a dog himself.


----------



## ntamph

Redpill said:


> I clicked on the gender tab and looked at the websites with the most females.. hmm *SURPRISE SURPRISE.. HERE ARE THE RESULTS*:
> 
> SeekingMillionaire.com 27% male *73% female*
> Sugardaddie.com 34% male *65% female*
> WealthyMen.com 31% male *69% female*
> 
> Bottom line is, most women are looking for someone to support them. So much for these "liberated" and "empowered" and "independent" feminists!


I was thinking:

DateInAsia.com
FilipinaHeart.com
AsianPeopleMeet.com
VietnamCupid.com
FilipinoFriendFinder.com
LatinAmericanCupid.com

Apparently men have to deal with more competition in these sites than somewhere like eHarmony or Match.


----------



## Frank Banana

Here's a typical western woman's dating profile : 

Talks about her job, where she's been, what she studied at university, what she wants, what she wants, what she wants, a bunch of reasons NOT to message her, and a bunch of silly requirements. Demands not to be sent a message saying hello or hi or how you doing, in some cases commands the reader to quote a sentence to prove that they read the whole profile. 

Photos : Duckface, drinking, throwing her arms up in the air in some club, tattoos, piercings, hair dyed some stupid colour, arrogant, aggressive poses and unnatural, contrived smiles (if any). 



Here's a typical asian woman's profile : 

Talks about her qualities, why she'd make a good girlfriend, talks about life and her values. Mentions a few things about what she likes etc. Maybe also mentions one or two requirements, which are reasonable and realistic. Talks about how she'll treat you. Wishes the reader well, invites them to come and say hello. 

Photos : Natural, humble expression, feminine, sweet, friendly, natural look. 




Yes, ladies, we're such losers for wanting a real woman. So, tell me, where have all the good, real women gone? No need to answer that, we already know.


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## Deejo

Yeah ... on second thought ...

Thread closed.

Please review the forum guidelines regarding baiting, inciting and inflammatory posts.


----------

