# I really need a woman’s perspective



## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Basically I need a woman’s input when it comes to sex in a relationship/marriage.

Me and my wife’s sex life has sucked for a long time. I just wish I could understand things from a woman’s perspective....

How important is sex to women? 

My wife seems like she could take it or leave it if I’m being honest and that just depresses me to no end. 

I just don’t feel like sex is the same for women and that they aren’t attracted to men the same way men are attracted to women. 

It’s that old Billy Crystal joke that runs through my head - men need a place to have sex, women need a reason to...lol

I used to find that joke funnier...seriously though you hear stories about women preferring food to sex and honestly...if I can’t beat ice cream ...why bother?

So my question....Is sex important to women or is it something they tolerate for the sake of the relationship? And how is sex/attraction different for women?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

Was your sex life with your wife happy and fulfilling early in the relationship? Many women need to feel emotionally connected to a man before they're interested in having an ongoing sexual relationship with him. Men, in general, tend to need a fulfilling sexual relationship before they can develop an ongoing emotional relationship with a woman. If your wife has stopped wanting to have sex with you, it may be because you're stopped meeting her emotional needs. If you've stopped wanting to have a close emotionally intimate bond with your wife, it may be because she's stopped meeting your sexual needs. It's fine, perfectly normal in fact, for a man and his wife to have different needs. But they have to learn to meet one another's needs if they want to sustain a happy, healthy, marriage that is fulfilling for both of them. 

The books, _Lovebusters_ and _His Needs, Her Needs_, both by Willard Harley will explain all this very well, and may help you with some steps you can take to improve your marriage as a whole, including your sex life. You and your wife likely _both_ have a bit of work to do to get things back on track.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

Oh man, I burst out laughing. You cracked me up.

I can't explain women's sexual attraction as compared to that of men, nor can I speak for all women with regard to what makes us sexually attracted to someone. I can only tell you that seeing someone good looking doesn't make me horny or want to jump their bones, although I did have a boyfriend once whose lips I thought were so sexy that I couldn't keep mine off of his. But then, that wasn't sex, was it? LOL

But I also think it's very possible that you are overthinking it because I don't think sex (problems in the bedroom) has anything to do with sexual attraction. I can be attracted to someone but if he is sorry or the bedroom is sorry, then he instantly becomes totally unattractive to me.

The keys to my heart and sexual attraction depend on two things: The first is how he treats me. if he treats me with kindness, I will be willing to go to bed with him. No mean or abusive person introduces themselves as mean or abusive. Nobody's T-shirt says "I will call you names, ignore you, and crack your jaw if you hook up with me." Maybe I'm attracted to him and we have great fun in the hay but if he becomes unkind, inconsiderate, or abusive later down the road, then I don't care for him anymore and he's history because he destroyed that part of me and the love that I had for him. Communication is included in that. He has to have more concern for me and my concerns than what I can offer him in bed. These are those "reasons" in Billy Crystal's joke. Displays and expressions of love and caring, time and attention, communication, concern, consideration - all give her reason to want to have sex with you. The lack of them and/or unkindness, abuse, and passive-aggression can make her not want to have sex with you because that makes her feel used and objectified. Her desire for you is directly related to how you treat her in and out of the bedroom. See below for example and explanation of that.

So funny to have been a brief part of these exact same topics of discussion earlier. One woman said her husband's antics of having tantrums and becoming mean to her and their children whenever she tells him she doesn't feel like having sex kills her desire for him. She said they have sex roughly once or twice a week except when he pulls this crap on her and the kids because she said he turns her off and makes her feel cheap when he behaves that way. She tried to talk to him about it and asked him to stop acting like that because it makes her not want him to touch her, and his sorry childish response was to say "I can't help acting that way." Had he listened instead of being so selfish and inconsiderate of her feelings, he would have understood that she was trying to save their sexual relationship because he was killing his chances every time he did it. 

It's a very simple cause and effect scenario. A man can make a woman cringe with disgust at the very thought of him touching her. So, as long as her husband refuses to understand what she's saying and continues similar behavior, then he will have numerous more tantrums and abusive antics in his future. Like them, lots of couples go round that mulberry bush due mainly to guys like you who don't really understand what makes women tick, and they widen the divide more than they realize. What is most unfortunate is there are those who don't give a darn, like her husband and the male respondents who faulted her and her female respondents. Her feelings and how his behavior was (accurately) characterized were a whole lot less important than the fact that he didn't understand he caused the way she felt and by having zero concern and not bothering to listen to her, he made life more difficult for himself. And then at least one of the male respondents accused her of withholding sex to punish him. I really, really hope you are getting the full picture here. Am I able to help you see the very stark and obvious difference between the sexes? As the joke goes, all men need is a place since I hope we haven't devolved into a society that humps in public on street corners. But you have to give women reasons to want to, and you surely can conversely give us plenty of reasons not to want to.

To explain since I already mention it, (roughly) 90% (I didn't read the whole thread but several pages, this figure is based on the pages I read) of the male respondents faulted her and also faulted her female respondents for calling him harassing and abusive. I find that incredibly insensitive with regard to her, her expressing how he makes her feel, and asking him to stop, and I don't know how else his harassing and abusive behaviors can be characterized except to call them harassing and abusive behaviors. The telling part is those guys had no consideration for how she felt or her expressing that he makes her feel that way. So show me that kind of insensitivity and lack of concern (on her husband's part AND the male respondents' part), and I will show you the door, and that's not even to mention him thinking it's okay to take her refusal out on their children. So yeah, I find hope from someone like you coming here out of concern for your wife's happiness.

The second is his performance in bed. If he is unskilled and lacks confidence, then he doesn't get a second chance. I couldn't love a man enough to have to go through that a second time. I don't doubt some, and maybe you, will consider that being hard on men, but I need a man who knows what he's doing. I and many other women feel too vulnerable for that. Sex is too intimate a part of a relationship, and I need to know I'm in good hands, not fumbling hands. With that said, there are lots and lots of women who are happy to remain with their unskilled husband or boyfriend because they love him. I might love the guy, but I can't be in love with him because his strength, knowledge, confidence, and concern for my sexual fulfillment like I am for his are part of what makes me fall in love with him. If there isn't any of that present in him, then there's none of it to be a conducive factor in my feelings. But, I've often found that that's just me. I don't enjoy feeling like a sexual experiment, but there are lots of women who are willing to teach if they are able. I already feel too vulnerable for that in the bedroom, but I happily try to help guys out in that department in here on the boards because you're not sure of it, but your instincts tell you that sex isn't the same for women as it is for men, and you're absolutely right about that. The differences are like night and day.

Now, don't take this offensively, but one of my eyebrows shot straight up into the air when I read you say "My wife seems like she could take it or leave it if I’m being honest and that just depresses me to no end" because it tells me you and she need to spice things up in the bedroom, and you need to know how to turn her on in bed. When a woman can take it or leave it, she isn't being fulfilled because just like you love sex and how good it feels, if it feels good to her she will want it too with no passe attitude about it unless there is a reason, such as medical, illness, or birth control that usurp her senses. She might not want it as often as you do, but to say she can take it or leave it sounds like she never wants it, and that's because she doesn't enjoy it. So you might step up your game a little bit and give her reasons to enjoy it.

For a little bit (or a lot depending on how much you need) of help in the mechanical department, read *my post here*. Also read the original post because I think it's possible you and he have some of the same concerns in common.

I don't know about the ice cream part. Some brands and flavors are too irresistible. But if you follow my instructions and advice, you could become irresistible too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you want to know how women feel about sex and men, here is a link to a thread in which women talk about the topic.

https://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/236514-women-whats-your-sex-drive-like.html


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Basically I need a woman’s input when it comes to sex in a relationship/marriage.
> 
> Me and my wife’s sex life has sucked for a long time. I just wish I could understand things from a woman’s perspective....
> 
> ...


If you want to understand what that 'joke' means ("men need a place to have sex, women need a reason"), there are two books that I suggest you read. They explain it very well. The books are "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Read them in that order.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Everyone is on a spectrum. Some have high sex drives some have low. So it’s an important question to ask yourself how sexual was she when you were dating? Did she masterbate? 

I have always been very sexual, therefore sex is really important to me in a relationship. But I have always masterbated 3-10x a week since I could remember. 

And to reiterate what another person said... sexual attraction doesn’t have anything to do with the way the man looks. It never hurts, but it doesn’t always help if that makes sense. For me, it has to do with the way I feel and the way it makes me feel. If I am happy and confident and my partner is super turned on by me and I feel great about myself than I’m super sexual. When my partner nags me about sex, and just wants to “do it” and doesn’t have a understanding of anything I’m feeling it’s a turn off. 

Also, I am very sensual. And I find sensual men to be a huge turn on.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



StarFires said:


> Oh man, I burst out laughing. You cracked me up.
> 
> I can't explain women's sexual attraction as compared to that of men, nor can I speak for all women with regard to what makes us sexually attracted to someone. I can only tell you that seeing someone good looking doesn't make me horny or want to jump their bones, although I did have a boyfriend once whose lips I thought were so sexy that I couldn't keep mine off of his. But then, that wasn't sex, was it? LOL
> 
> ...


I am curious what do you think your responsibility for him is? Your post seems to suggest that he is the only one who has agency in any of this.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

I can't speak for all women but I personally love sex and it's very important to me in my marriage. I have a higher drive than my husband, but we make it work. I am normally high drive, though I am in peri-menopause at the moment so it's peaks and troughs, lol.

If sex for a woman has always been good, and then become infrequent etc. there's usually a reason for it - could be anything from resentment because her partner leaves her to do all the work around the house; he stopped "dating" her; he/she gained weight OR a sign of something much worse - affair, for example.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Well thanks for the responses, especially Star Fires...thanks for taking the time to give such a well thought out response. But this might have turned out to be pointless. Me and my wife had a long talk tonight and decided to separate. We had been going to therapy and trying to work stuff out but a lot of things came out during all of this that made a relationship between the two of us unworkable. Some things just can’t be gotten over. 

To keep a long story short...my wife had a one night stand and admitted she hates being a mother. Family life...being a wife and mother is not what she wants to do with her life. Her fling that she had was the only good time she’s had in years apparently.  The thing is, I was there when it happened. We actually were out at a bar with a bunch of friends and there were some people at the bar who were minor celebrities. We met some of them briefly and after awhile my wife said she was driving her friends home because she hadn’t been drinking that night. She was gone for over 2 hours and I called her and eventually she showed back up saying she got pulled over and had to help her friend who threw up etc etc etc

Well turns out... I guess one of these guys we met who are only slightly famous...was making eyes at her after we met them and so she had her friends cover for her and she actually went back to his hotel room and you can guess what happened from there

She said the experience was so great and she didn’t regret it because it was a once in a lifetime opportunity. And it woke her up to how unhappy she was with her life. 

I had no intention of going into all this but I just had to say it somewhere to someone because I can’t admit any of this to anyone in my life...it’s too embarrassing.

In a weird way I’m glad this all came out because I knew something was wrong and I couldn’t put my finger on it and now I know what it was. She admitted she couldn’t be attracted to me anymore and at least I know that now instead of wasting more of my life trying to be someone I can never be.

PS...I know a lot of people will wonder who the celebrities were....they were a group of lesser known pro athletes. I’m an avid sports fan and even I barely knew who they all were but they were good looking guys throwing money around and everyone loved them so they had a certain appeal to them


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

EleGirl....I read through the thread you recommended....I’m ANGRY in a joking way of course....where the **** are all these women who took this poll???? Lol

I and all my friends have never met women like the ones who responded to that poll/thread. I have many friends who are women too...none of them like sex either.

I don’t know...there’s gotta be something wrong with me. It’s especially frustrating since my sex life appears to be over now.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Girl Power - what do you mean when you say that looks don’t help with attraction?

I’m curious because this is in direct contradiction to everything I usually see happening around me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Well, having this new info would have made a huge difference to those responding.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Girl Power - what do you mean when you say that looks don’t help with attraction?
> 
> I’m curious because this is in direct contradiction to everything I usually see happening around me.


First: I'm sorry about your current situation. But at least it is cut and dry and headed for the end resolve quickly. Your better off than most in that sense.


Second: You have a lot to learn my friend. There are endless stories here of woman whose sexual appetite was VERY different depending on the man they were with. 
Every woman around you is not into sex.....Do you see the common denominator? 

The good news: Your new separation will give you every bit of motivation you need to come out the other side into a different situation.

Their are PLENTY woman who want to have a good QUALITY man and desire plenty of sex.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

You need a lawyer, divorce, and to find a good woman...in that order!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



Girl_power said:


> Everyone is on a spectrum. Some have high sex drives some have low. So it’s an important question to ask yourself how sexual was she when you were dating? Did she masterbate?
> 
> I have always been very sexual, therefore sex is really important to me in a relationship. But I have always masterbated 3-10x a week since I could remember.


Masturbation =/= desire for sex. I am also a high drive gal and have been since my mid-teens. However, I very rarely masturbate. Masturbation just doesn't satisfy the way sex does, the orgasm isn't as intense, I don't get all the sensory stimulation I crave, and it's something I only bother doing in dire circumstances to tide me over until I can have the actual sex I want.

And, yes, @FMLuder1013 , women do like sex. Check out "the sex starved wife" thread on these forums or head over to reddit's deadbedroom community and you'll see plenty of women who openly discuss their desire/need for sex.



FMLuder1013 said:


> Girl Power - what do you mean when you say that looks don’t help with attraction?
> 
> I’m curious because this is in direct contradiction to everything I usually see happening around me.


Sexual attraction is a physical, chemical, thing. Sexual attraction is either there or it is not. That said, being the best version of you is still going to up your chances of success. A decent appearance gets you in proximity to women who may find you sexually appealing. No one wants to get near and gauge attraction toward a man who is wearing holey sweats of indeterminate original color and smells like the swamps of Dagobah.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> EleGirl....I read through the thread you recommended....I’m ANGRY in a joking way of course....where the **** are all these women who took this poll???? Lol
> 
> I and all my friends have never met women like the ones who responded to that poll/thread. I have many friends who are women too...none of them like sex either.


LOL - neither have I. I say the same thing every time I read about all these hyper sexual/high sex drive ladies on message boards. They seem to only exist on message boards because pretty much every single woman I've ever been friends with as well as my female relatives are NOT like this (except for *one *ex-sister-in-law).


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL - neither have I. I say the same thing every time I read about all these hyper sexual/high sex drive ladies on message boards. They seem to only exist on message boards because pretty much every single woman I've ever been friends with as well as my female relatives are NOT like this (except for *one *ex-sister-in-law).




I've had the exact opposite experience. I'm high libido. So was my mom, so is my sister, so are the vast majority of my female friends. One female friend recently ended her marriage over insufficient sex. Birds of a feather flocking together, maybe?


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## ButtPunch (Sep 17, 2014)

Time to get rid of the wife.

She doesn't love or respect you.

Of course she doesn't want to sleep with you.

Divorce her....may not get you anymore sex with her
but at least she may respect you a little more.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Well thanks for the responses, especially Star Fires...thanks for taking the time to give such a well thought out response. But this might have turned out to be pointless. Me and my wife had a long talk tonight and decided to separate. We had been going to therapy and trying to work stuff out but a lot of things came out during all of this that made a relationship between the two of us unworkable. Some things just can’t be gotten over.
> 
> To keep a long story short...my wife had a one night stand and admitted she hates being a mother. Family life...being a wife and mother is not what she wants to do with her life. Her fling that she had was the only good time she’s had in years apparently. The thing is, I was there when it happened. We actually were out at a bar with a bunch of friends and there were some people at the bar who were minor celebrities. We met some of them briefly and after awhile my wife said she was driving her friends home because she hadn’t been drinking that night. She was gone for over 2 hours and I called her and eventually she showed back up saying she got pulled over and had to help her friend who threw up etc etc etc
> 
> ...


Holy crap, I am so, so sorry!  As you mentioned though, NOW you know, and you get to move forward and find something that is good for you. 

Despite this outcome, the post by @StarFires is 100% dead on. Read and retain!


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL - neither have I. I say the same thing every time I read about all these hyper sexual/high sex drive ladies on message boards. They seem to only exist on message boards because pretty much every single woman I've ever been friends with as well as my female relatives are NOT like this (except for *one *ex-sister-in-law).


I was talking to my divorced sister last week. She had considered herself very LD. She thought she had problems producing lubrication... She is now dating someone that she is MAD about. Lo and behold, she can't get enough. If you never knew what it was like, how would you... well know what it is like?


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Well, we are both on the same page on divorce. It’s the one topic of conversation that has gone really well between us...what’s that tell you? Lol

We’re both in the same boat , we want to move on so I don’t think this is going to be as bad as divorces sometimes are. She doesn’t want anything from me...her fathers family is rich (they always hated me lol) so she doesn’t want anything and want nothing from her. The only thing that irks me is she seems to not even care about the kids but I am more than happyto have the kids.

As far as moving on...no way I’m doing this again. I’m too old for this s***. I’m going to raise my kids and I’m not messing up my life with dating/relationships especially since I get the feeling that my wife is going to be too busy doing that to be a mom...I need to be there for my kids.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

Good question and you get major bonus points for actually bothering to ask it and want to know a woman's perspective rather than just complaining about your wife. I understand men get frustrated about not getting the sex they want, but time and again on here I see a man complaining about lack of sex but showing ZERO intellectual curiosity about WHY his woman is never in the mood.

It is a generalization, of course, but YES, generally speaking sex is very different for women than men. Women do not have the high levels of testosterone men usually do. They typically do not walk around craving sex for the sake of sex.

However, women can and do thoroughly enjoy sex with a man they love and are attracted to. When a woman is in love, she usually DOES want sex, at least I know I do. But when a woman feels her man is just getting off in her body she feel like used and like a receptacle and can actually start to actively dislike sex.

Especially when her man is not meeting HER needs. What does SHE want/need from the relationship? To me, as a woman, sex is INTIMACY. That's what I get out of it. Closeness, connection, love, etc. But I only want that and get that if I feel loved already. What makes me feel loved and hot for my man? For me, it's his attention. Conversations with eye contact where we have each others undivided attention. Affection that is not sexual and doesn't turn sexual the second I lean in for a little more.

Here are a couple things to read that I think will be REALLY helpful.

Short Article:
https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8120_sex.html

Great book on the different needs people have in marriage:
https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her-Building-Affair-Proof-ebook/dp/B004HKIIBC

I also recommend, if you haven't already, asking her what she loves about your relationship and what she wants more of? And letting her know sex is important to you. If you are willing to take the time and effort to see to her needs, your odds of her wanting to see to your needs go way up.

Good Luck!






FMLuder1013 said:


> Basically I need a woman’s input when it comes to sex in a relationship/marriage.
> 
> Me and my wife’s sex life has sucked for a long time. I just wish I could understand things from a woman’s perspective....
> 
> ...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

Oh no, I'm so sorry.

Is it possible she is bi polar? The "I don't like being a mother" and the hyper sexuality of having a one night stand and thinking that was great sound like someone I know who almost destroyed her life with that behavior/attitude and then found out she was bi polar and got help and now she cries when she thinks of how her personality changed when she was in that state. 

Not to say you should stay with her. It sounds like you will be better off with out her. I'm really sorry. I just posted some ideas for you before reading this post. I'll leave them up as they may help when you find the right woman, or if you and your wife do decide to give it another try.




FMLuder1013 said:


> Well thanks for the responses, especially Star Fires...thanks for taking the time to give such a well thought out response. But this might have turned out to be pointless. Me and my wife had a long talk tonight and decided to separate. We had been going to therapy and trying to work stuff out but a lot of things came out during all of this that made a relationship between the two of us unworkable. Some things just can’t be gotten over.
> 
> To keep a long story short...my wife had a one night stand and admitted she hates being a mother. Family life...being a wife and mother is not what she wants to do with her life. Her fling that she had was the only good time she’s had in years apparently. The thing is, I was there when it happened. We actually were out at a bar with a bunch of friends and there were some people at the bar who were minor celebrities. We met some of them briefly and after awhile my wife said she was driving her friends home because she hadn’t been drinking that night. She was gone for over 2 hours and I called her and eventually she showed back up saying she got pulled over and had to help her friend who threw up etc etc etc
> 
> ...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Girl Power - what do you mean when you say that looks don’t help with attraction?
> 
> I’m curious because this is in direct contradiction to everything I usually see happening around me.


I can't speak for girl power, but I will say this is one of the areas where men and women tend to differ.

Men are very visual. A beautiful woman is, pretty much by definition, sexy to a man.

For women, looks certainly do not HURT and some men are obviously good looking and we love looking at them. But that doesn't make us want to have SEX with them. It's like too separate things. There is a certain look I like in a man (think rugged) but if the personality and connection isn't there, I'm not going to want him. Being really out of shape can make a man UNattractive. And some faces appeal to me much more than others. But I think with the right personality/attitude pretty much any face can be sexy once you get to know the guy.

BTW - this is part of why I wonder if your wife doesn't actually have a mental health issue. It is NOT normal for a mentally healthy woman to want to have sex with a guy based on looks alone. Or quasi-fame. That's a sign of a woman who is reckless, impulsive, and kind of out of control. In my opinion.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Well, we are both on the same page on divorce. It’s the one topic of conversation that has gone really well between us...what’s that tell you? Lol
> 
> We’re both in the same boat , we want to move on so I don’t think this is going to be as bad as divorces sometimes are. She doesn’t want anything from me...her fathers family is rich (they always hated me lol) so she doesn’t want anything and want nothing from her. The only thing that irks me is she seems to not even care about the kids but I am more than happyto have the kids.
> 
> As far as moving on...no way I’m doing this again. I’m too old for this s***. I’m going to raise my kids and I’m not messing up my life with dating/relationships especially since I get the feeling that my wife is going to be too busy doing that to be a mom...I need to be there for my kids.


If this is how you feel, then I don't see any issues. You are ok and she is ok. You two will just remain married. 

Keep in mine that marriage in the USA is not a religious marriage. So if you divorce her, you are not 'divorced' according to the Catholic Church. But it protects you legally and financially. 

If you don't want to get a secular divorce, then perhaps a legal separation would make sense. That way you can have some structure and protect yourself and your children financially. With out some kind of legal agreement between you, she can change her mind at any time and try for custody of your children, alimony/support and all sorts of things. What she says today might not be what she says in the future. Best to get it set legally while she's in the frame of mind she's in right now.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



EleGirl said:


> If this is how you feel, then I don't see any issues. You are ok and she is ok. You two will just remain married.
> 
> Keep in mine that marriage in the USA is not a religious marriage. So if you divorce her, you are not 'divorced' according to the Catholic Church. But it protects you legally and financially.
> 
> If you don't want to get a secular divorce, then perhaps a legal separation would make sense. That way you can have some structure and protect yourself and your children financially. With out some kind of legal agreement between you, she can change her mind at any time and try for custody of your children, alimony/support and all sorts of things. What she says today might not be what she says in the future. Best to get it set legally while she's in the frame of mind she's in right now.


I'm confused... this seems to be a response to a different post maybe?


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

Yes, we’re getting a divorce. And I’m not religious so the whole Catholic thing...doesn’t really matter to me.

We’re pretty agreeable with each other on how a divorce is going to work so this might be the best we’ve gotten along in years lol


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Basically I need a woman’s input when it comes to sex in a relationship/marriage.
> 
> Me and my wife’s sex life has sucked for a long time. I just wish I could understand things from a woman’s perspective....
> 
> ...



I'm tired of this generalization. Women are not a hive mind. I am very sexual, and I suffered in a sexless marriage for a long time before divorcing. There are many many women out there for whom sex is vital.

I am sorry your wife is not one, but don't assume it is a gender thing.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL - neither have I. I say the same thing every time I read about all these hyper sexual/high sex drive ladies on message boards. They seem to only exist on message boards because pretty much every single woman I've ever been friends with as well as my female relatives are NOT like this (except for *one *ex-sister-in-law).


I feel sorry for the men who date or are married to these cold fish


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

I think the “cold fish” are the majority and the few exceptions hang out on message boards lol.

Rereading through this thread I read StarFire’s post again and for some reason it makes me want to be alone. I can’t quite articulate why it makes me feel that way but I’m excited actually about being on my own and being free. And not trapped in the swamp of a relationship. 

I’m sorry StarFire but your post gave me anxiety for some reason lol...and I’m not an anxious person ever so be impressed with yourself haha


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

FMLuder1013 said:


> Girl Power - what do you mean when you say that looks don’t help with attraction?
> 
> I’m curious because this is in direct contradiction to everything I usually see happening around me.




Imo looks don’t hurt but if your a jerk, or insensitive, or I lost respect for you it doesn’t matter what you look like.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

It's so weird that I've been hearing lately about women admitting they don't like being a mother. Most would not give up their children for anything in the world. They love them, don't regret them, and couldn't imagine life without them, but they didn't like discovering what motherhood is really about and how demanding it is. Once you have kids, your life isn't yours anymore. A lot of mothers have felt this way but didn't dare to admit it. I think the media and social networks are giving people an outlet for all areas of life. The funny thing about your wife though is, while it's okay to confess how she feels about motherhood, she seems too willing to give them up. Sounds like a mother who wants her carefree life back.

I'm sorry that your marriage is ending but glad you seem okay with it. Sounds like you are relieved some too. Don't worry about my post causing anxiety. I can see that now and know it was a lot to absorb. I might have been too eager to point out the importance of listening, consideration, and communication being that I was fresh off that other thread that began as insanity and became exponentially worse. I was reeling from the shock and kind of poured that all out onto you. I apologize for that. It was too much with what you're going through, and you didn't let on that things were bad or not that bad. And to look back on my post and see all that expectation after knowing you've tried your hardest probably makes it all seem unattainable. 

But despite thinking you have sworn off women (which is also understandable and kind of expected in your position right now), you surely will have other relationships, at least one anyway. Come back and look at my post then. You'll be in an entirely different frame of mind. Just don't try to soak it up and be that guy all at once. One step at a time is all we can do. Start with an open mind, and everything else will fall into place.

I really wish you well.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I'm sorry for all you discovered about your wife. Her lack of seeming attraction was apparently NOT about you at all. It was about her selfishness and being distracted by another man.

There are good, giving, loving women out there who actually know how to appreciate a man. Don't give up hope, but give yourself time to heal first.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



NobodySpecial said:


> I was talking to my divorced sister last week. She had considered herself very LD. She thought she had problems producing lubrication... She is now dating someone that she is MAD about. Lo and behold, she can't get enough. If you never knew what it was like, how would you... well know what it is like?


That has been m y recent experience too. It used to be a chore. Now? It _*never *_gets old... ;-)


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



personofinterest said:


> Her lack of seeming attraction was apparently NOT about you at all. It was about her selfishness and being distracted by another man.


This was very hard for me to accept as the truth. For a long, long time, I thought it was about me, and that if I were "better", she wouldn't be distracted by other men. I had to learn that distraction is a choice.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

I really don’t plan on dating ever again, it might change after a while but I seriously doubt it. I am 100% focused on raising my kids, who are 4 and 6. There’s no room in my life for someone else and after they’ve grown up I will be almost 50 and I have no intention on dating at that age... I will catch a lot of flak for this but ...dating is a young persons game.

On top of that since none of the women in my life have ever liked sex...with me st least lol...as someone said- it’s obvious that I am the problem. Fixing that would be way too much work and probably take forever to fix anyway so why bother at my age?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I really don’t plan on dating ever again, it might change after a while but I seriously doubt it. I am 100% focused on raising my kids, who are 4 and 6. There’s no room in my life for someone else and after they’ve grown up I will be almost 50 and I have no intention on dating at that age... I will catch a lot of flak for this but ...dating is a young persons game.
> 
> On top of that since none of the women in my life have ever liked sex...with me st least lol...as someone said- it’s obvious that I am the problem. Fixing that would be way too much work and probably take forever to fix anyway so why bother at my age?


If you are raising the kids by yourself and working a full time job, you won't have much spare time to date. I cant believe your ex had some epiphany that she wants to hit the c-carousal and relive her party years cuz her kids are too much of a bother. What a piece of sh!t.

But if you do have split custody, you will probably want some sort of companionship or atleast sex during your down time. I mean, since you were complaining about lack of sex from your STBX, that isn't going to go away with her. 

You are not old, you are 30 something years old if I'm reading that right. Most men don't reach their SMV peak till they are in their 30's. So, stop with that. If you want to get back in the game eventually...probably sooner than you think right now, get a gym membership as your first priority and hit me up for some reading materials. Helped me to figure out some stuff post-divorce.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Me and my wife had a long talk tonight and decided to separate. We had been going to therapy and trying to work stuff out but a lot of things came out during all of this that made a relationship between the two of us unworkable. Some things just can’t be gotten over.
> 
> To keep a long story short...my wife had a one night stand and admitted she hates being a mother. Family life...being a wife and mother is not what she wants to do with her life. *Her fling that she had was the only good time she’s had in years apparently.* The thing is, I was there when it happened. We actually were out at a bar with a bunch of friends and there were some people at the bar who were minor celebrities. We met some of them briefly and after awhile my wife said she was driving her friends home because she hadn’t been drinking that night. She was gone for over 2 hours and I called her and eventually she showed back up saying she got pulled over and had to help her friend who threw up etc etc etc
> 
> ...


Her statement that she couldn't be attracted to you anymore (after being used as a groupie) shows how deluded she is. She will remember her 2 hours of being used as more precious than being loved by her husband.

While she is in the mindset of not wanting children or a family, you need step up and offer to take on the difficult task of having sole custody of your children, so she can chase 'semi-famous' people who will bang her and drop her. Play up how hard it will be on you to take them off her hands so she can be free and unincombered by the responsibility of children....but you love her so much, you want her to be happy....so you will take full custody.

Eventually she will want to be with her children again, but if you have sole custody her visitations will be completely in your control. You won't have to deal with horrible custody arrangements and fights like so many divorced people who share children 50-50.

It is best that you aren't interested in having a relationship with a woman for the time being. Do as you are doing, focus on yourself and your children. Most likely you will venture out and want a relationship again. Not all women want to be groupies, and many women want a loving sexual relationship with one person.

Get the D going ASAP while she wants to not have a family anymore. Act like you are doing her a favor by moving quickly.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> I really don’t plan on dating ever again, it might change after a while but I seriously doubt it. I am 100% focused on raising my kids, who are 4 and 6. There’s no room in my life for someone else and after they’ve grown up I will be almost 50 and I have no intention on dating at that age... I will catch a lot of flak for this but ...dating is a young persons game.
> 
> On top of that since none of the women in my life have ever liked sex...with me st least lol...as someone said- it’s obvious that I am the problem. Fixing that would be way too much work and probably take forever to fix anyway so why bother at my age?


Nope, nope, nope to all of this. Listen, you may have come to terms with present circumstances, but you're still hurting, and your Pain has taken on its own identity, that's why I capitalized him. Pain is in your head and controlling your body and brain waves. Pain has taken over your life in order to get you through this incredibly difficult time. Pain is standing in the gap for Yourself until he returns to Himself. And Pain is who wrote this post, and that's why it sounds so crazy. Pain has to convince you of whatever serves to comfort you and keep you in one functioning piece. And that's fine. Whatever it takes, go with it.

But Pain will subside, and you'll turn into Yourself again, and Yourself is a good person who deserves happiness and companionship. The kids are going to occupy a lot of time and bring you joy and anger and all that jazz, but kids cannot stead for companionship. When Yourself needs someone in your corner, the kids can't do that. Yourself is a grown man and will need grownup company. And when Yourself gets horny, you will want that too. 

First, take some time just for you to recover. After that, just do some reading and read the link in my first post so that when Yourself returns, he will be a more confident and skillful man in the bedroom. Whether it's a year from now, or you're 70 years old, Yourself will be wowing some woman in bed. It just takes confidence and some techniques, but you can't gain those if you make up your mind not to try.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



Araucaria said:


> Not all women want to be groupies, and many women want a loving sexual relationship with one person.


Make sure you get a good lawyer who can win custody of your kids. It would be best for them if they were away from their mother, so they could be nurtured and trained in right and upright ways.

A good, morally-sound woman in their life would be of great benefit. After your recovery time, find one. There are women who only want to be loved and cared for by a good, morally-sound man, and who will return to him the respect, admiration, and physical attraction he needs.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

For a long time I never heard of parents not wanting children. Then my wife and I took in a (short term / shelter-care) foster child and because we now had a child, other parents seemed to open up more. Some were very happy with their children, but others felt like they had traded a lot of other things in their lives for children.

I think very few parents will say it, but there are probably quite a few that didn't understand just how much of ones life in invested in raising children. I agree with you though that very few are willing to give up their children even if they feel that they made the wrong choice in having them. 




StarFires said:


> It's so weird that I've been hearing lately about women admitting they don't like being a mother. Most would not give up their children for anything in the world. They love them, don't regret them, and couldn't imagine life without them, but they didn't like discovering what motherhood is really about and how demanding it is. Once you have kids, your life isn't yours anymore. A lot of mothers have felt this way but didn't dare to admit it. I think the media and social networks are giving people an outlet for all areas of life. The funny thing about your wife though is, while it's okay to confess how she feels about motherhood, she seems too willing to give them up. Sounds like a mother who wants her carefree life back.
> snip
> .


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



uhtred said:


> For a long time I never heard of parents not wanting children. Then my wife and I took in a (short term / shelter-care) foster child and because we now had a child, other parents seemed to open up more. Some were very happy with their children, but others felt like they had traded a lot of other things in their lives for children.
> 
> I think very few parents will say it, but there are probably quite a few that didn't understand just how much of ones life in invested in raising children. I agree with you though that very few are willing to give up their children even if they feel that they made the wrong choice in having them.


Yep, I agree. I bet if some people waited later like 30 instead of 20 to have kids, they would have the time live a little more and get ready for settling down and having kids. When you don't have much of a life or haven't lived long enough to much living and then turn the life you have over to raising children, some are bound to have regrets.


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## FMLuder1013 (Dec 26, 2018)

My wife is actually a great mother, she’s just burned out on it and I know her view of being a mother will change when she’s away for awhile. I can forgive her for what she did, I even understand it. I have been approached by women multiple times in the last few years and have been seriously tempted to so I can’t hold it against her. I’m moving on and so is she. 

We’re getting an uncontested divorce which is going to be a lot easier and we actually are getting along really well now that we’re getting divorced. I’m taking the house and kids and she can see them whenever she wants. We’re both fortunate that we both do very well in our careers so we aren’t burdened financially and can each support ourselves on our own. Plus she has a rich grandpa who will give her whatever she wants lol

We haven’t had a single disagreement while discussing the divorce and noone believes me when I tell them that lol...but it’s true.

She’s going through some stuff emotionally/mentally right now obviously and she’s seeing a therapist about it. We’re just not right for each other and I really feel like we’re going to be better parents and people separately than we ever were together.

As far as dating down the road....never say never but...nope, not gonna do it lol

Joking, but no desire to at all and the idea of being alone the rest of my life in a way is actually kinda comforting to be honest. I know most people won’t understand that but that’s how I feel. Companionship? I have plenty of friends. Financially? I do good enough on my own so no worries there. Sex?.....well, I’ve gotten used to not having sex so that’s not that big of a deal honestly. The first year I went without it was bad but then after that, you get used to it. And besides, I can’t be what someone else wants me to be. I can’t give a woman what she wants. So it’s for the best.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*

It surprises me that many people seem to put less thought into deciding to have children than they do into buying an new car. Taking in shelter care foster children is a nice way to learn what it is like to have children while hopefully doing a good deed. 

Despite wishing that they hadn't had children, I don't remember ever meeting a parent who admitted that they wished they could get rid of the children that they already had. 




StarFires said:


> Yep, I agree. I bet if some people waited later like 30 instead of 20 to have kids, they would have the time live a little more and get ready for settling down and having kids. When you don't have much of a life or haven't lived long enough to much living and then turn the life you have over to raising children, some are bound to have regrets.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

I could be 100% incorrect and totally off base here but is it possible that when she said she was tired of being a mother that she meant ....mother to you?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> I could be 100% incorrect and totally off base here but is it possible that when she said she was tired of being a mother that she meant ....mother to you?


He said she agreed to give him the house and kids while she dallies off to seedy bars riding the ck carousal.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

" I have been approached by women multiple times in the last few years and have been seriously tempted to so I can’t hold it against her."
Yeah, but YOU didn't cheat -- so yeah you can hold it against her. She is NOT a good mother -- anyone who would abandon their children isn't a good mother and couldn't be -- she is too selfish to be a good parent.
Sorry but she is a POS. You are much better off without her.
Make sure you protect yourself esp. with the kids. You don't want that in a couple of years she decides she wants the kids and take off with them. Get the D done with the best possible results for YOU and your kids -- NOT her. You don't need to be "fair" to her -- was she fair to you with cheating?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> I can’t give a woman what she wants. So it’s for the best.


Sometimes people can be there own worst critic. Don't be so hard on yourself. It sounds like your head is screwed on pretty straight to me so I'm sure you have what it takes.

There are endless stories on here of guys falling into a sloppy pathetic mess when in your situation but here you are still standing straight. Your likely tougher and better than you 

think.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FMLuder1013 said:


> I have been approached by women multiple times in the last few years and have been seriously tempted to so I can’t hold it against her.


Tempted? We are ALL tempted. So, being tempted is not something we can fault others for. And, temptation is not sin.

It is when we indulge temptation to the point where we begin to give in to it and give ourselves permission to try to satisfy the temptation that we must accept fault. Temptation is common to all, but all do not give themselves permission to engage.

You sound like an emotionally-stable, reasonable person. So, don't "hold it against her", do everything you do for your own benefit, what would be the best for you, and not because "she did".


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## RubyRing (Jun 13, 2016)

*Re: I really need a woman’s perspective*



FMLuder1013 said:


> Basically I need a woman’s input when it comes to sex in a relationship/marriage.
> 
> Me and my wife’s sex life has sucked for a long time. I just wish I could understand things from a woman’s perspective....
> 
> ...


Hi FML - I have not read through the thread yet, so maybe my question, comment has already been addressed. If your wife is going through menopause, or approaching menopause, she may be experiencing loss of libido or painful intercourse. In that case, there are treatments available. If this IS the case, please believe that this is a hormonal issue, and not a reflection on her feelings for you, and be patient, understanding and supportive while she seeks a solution to her problem.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Honestly, it depends on a lot of factors: the woman, the man, their relationship and how happy it is, stress levels, kids, accommodation within the relationship. In other words:

Some women have high drives, some have low drives. Same goes for men. Perhaps she's just LD.

Do you guys have a happy relationship, or are there unresolved issues within it? If there are unresolved issues, that creates tension, and that doesn't really make someone want a romp in the hay.

Which brings me to stress: stress at home, stress at work, stress with raising children, stress in a friendship circle, health issues, etc. Stress can be a libido killer, among many other things. 

Accommodation: do you contribute to household duties? Are you an active parent (if you have children), or do you work outside of the home, and relax once you get home?

In my experience, I married someone very LD while I'm very HD. We had a decent sex life before we got engaged, then it started to fall apart. Almost right after we were married, he cut off sex and said that it stressed him out. I worked on killing my drive because there was no sense in having one if my H didn't want me that way. It worked, possibly too well, and eventually he began saying that he wished I initiated more often. Truth was that when I had, I was turned down, so I stopped. It hit the point where having sex with my H made me want to vomit, and when it happened, I climbed inside my happy place for 5 minutes until it was over. He never questioned if I was okay, never wanted to get to the bottom of our unresolved issues, and that was what started the downward spiral. We're now divorced.

So, long story short, talk to your wife, get to the bottom of how she's feeling and why. It might be as simple as she's just low drive, and you're high drive. If that's the case, agree meet somewhere in the middle. Sex is what differs the relationship that you guys have to other ones that you have, so keep it healthy and happy and something that works for both of you.


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