# LD = resentment



## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Last night I attended a class on female sexuality and the teacher repeated what I have suspected for a long time - "LD" in women is emotional, not physical. It comes from resentment and the resentment is caused in large part because women are bad about having boundaries. We say yes when we mean no and vice versa and then resent our partner for asking. 

I've thought for a while now that for all these men who want their wives to enjoy sex again, the last thing you need to talk with her about is sex and this confirmed it for me. Where does she feel burden? That's the place to start.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

So, the advice is to communicate and ask her what's bothering her?

What beyond that? 

Help us dumb guys out a bit more.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It may be emotional - for some women. I think it's physical or genetic for others, perhaps most. It could also be a combination of factors, of course. The question is, for how many is it primarily emotional? If the percentages are small, then addressing emotional issues may only help that small percentage, with perhaps a little benefit for the rest.

It also strikes me that saying it's emotional tends to put the blame and responsibility for the LD on their partners, rather than on them. This would be a mistake, as you can't usually fix someone else, you can only fix yourself, or take responsibility for your own issues. If the LD can't correctly identify the source of the problem, and uses this as an excuse to put blame on their spouse, it's counterproductive. If it is an emotional response to a problem with their spouse, they need to address this with their spouse, rather than avoid the issue or simply assign blame without suggesting solutions.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

When I say 'dumb guys', I'm not being sarcastic or facetious.

Many of us are quite clueless when it comes to women.

My current wife is very simple emotionally compared to most women, but in the past relationships, I was constantly trying to analyze what's going on with them.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jorgegene said:


> So, the advice is to communicate and ask her what's bothering her?
> 
> What beyond that?
> 
> Help us dumb guys out a bit more.



Communication won't help if the LD intends to stay LD. Resentment is simply a cover or excuse.

The assumption is that everyone wants and enjoys sex. That is not the case for everyone, especially as we get older.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3023213


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

If you remove people who are LD because of physical limitations, negative attitudes about sex in hgeneral (i.e. it's dirty) or past sexual trauma (abuse etc.) I would tend to agree that the LD is likely due to resentment. The resentment could be justified...or just imagined. 

I don't believe aging in and of itself has a bearing. Healthy people in healthy relationships will enjoy sex their entire lives. Where aging has an impact is where people neglect their health as they age. Years of poor diet and/or lack of exercise accumulate and start to inhibit normal function. 

The big challenge is all of these issues tend to creep up on us slowly. Life is busy and early warning signs are missed or ignored. Then when the crisis point hits the patterns are so ingrained it's next to impossible to fix. 

I think the solution is to truly make your relationship a priority... right from the beginning. Same with health. If you want it to last you need to put the effort in, regularly evaluate it to check for issues and enjoy your successes so you're more likely to continue. It's not a one time effort it's an ongoing lifestyle.


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## tommyr (May 25, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> I've thought for a while now that for all these men who want their wives to enjoy sex again, *the last thing you need to talk with her about is sex *and this confirmed it for me. *Where does she feel burden? That's the place to start.*


Actually if the observable symptom is no sex, then I respectfully disagree with your "let's dance around an important issue and feed into the wife's avoidance game playing" advice

Wife is feeling some burden in the marriage? She should bring that up! And long before any sex impact!


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

tommyr said:


> Actually if the observable symptom is no sex, then I respectfully disagree with your "let's dance around an important issue and feed into the wife's avoidance game playing" advice
> 
> Wife is feeling some burden in the marriage? She should bring that up! And long before any sex impact!


:iagree:

While emotional reasons no doubt come in to play in many relationships (for men also, I might add), I think it's simplistic to blame every LD situation on resentment. Further, advising people to "not talk about it" is just not good advice. 

Nobody is a mind reader. Without communication, you're leaving it up to a roll of the dice that any solveable issues might just sort themselves out someday (hint: they won't).


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

This sounds like the Oprah style 'do more dishes to get sex' BS that is always touted. Sorry, the secret's out. We know that doesn't work....not going to fall for it anymore.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Aging has a cultural bearing on sex, not a physical one. As the Viagra Divorce debacle has shown, overcoming the physical "limitations" focuses on other factors that cause lack of desire and often divorce.


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## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

The thing is, resentment just doesn't go away. Even if the husband knocks off the behavior that purportedly caused it in the first place, it just doesn't magically disappear. 

That's where husbands of wives who are LD because of resentment are screwed. There literally is nothing they can do if their wife won't 1. admit she's carrying resentment and 2. confront it and actively do the work to clear it. 

Resentment happens in a lot of relationships, and I'm not saying it's the wife's fault she ended up with it. It's usually the result of actions of both partners, but only the person who is carrying it can purge it. 

I liken the situation to pregnancy. It took both the husband and the wife to cause the pregnancy, but it's only the wife who ends up with the baby weight. She has to do the work to lose it--hubby can go to the gym all day every day, that baby weight isn't going to budge. Maybe it's not fair, but it is what it is.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> It may be emotional - for some women. I think it's physical or genetic for others, perhaps most. It could also be a combination of factors, of course. The question is, for how many is it primarily emotional? If the percentages are small, then addressing emotional issues may only help that small percentage, with perhaps a little benefit for the rest.
> 
> It also strikes me that saying it's emotional tends to put the blame and responsibility for the LD on their partners, rather than on them. This would be a mistake, as you can't usually fix someone else, you can only fix yourself, or take responsibility for your own issues. If the LD can't correctly identify the source of the problem, and uses this as an excuse to put blame on their spouse, it's counterproductive. If it is an emotional response to a problem with their spouse, they need to address this with their spouse, rather than avoid the issue or simply assign blame without suggesting solutions.


Nope. I am not saying it's the partner's job to fix it. Women need to take responsibility for their own resentment. They need to know and enforce their own boundaries. I'm just saying that for the man to try and fix her sexual problem with sex, he's starting in the wrong place. But ultimately it is up to her to fix it.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This sounds like the Oprah style 'do more dishes to get sex' BS that is always touted. Sorry, the secret's out. We know that doesn't work....not going to fall for it anymore.


Doing more dishes doesn't help you if doing the dishes isn't what your wife is unhappy about. The question really is: is she happy in this relationship, or not? And if not, why? And the why a lot of times is that she is resenting what she thinks of as things you do or don't do for her. So if the guy is going to help fix it, he has to know what she is resentful about and help her get through that. 

What complicates it is that sometimes she is resentful because she thinks you should be doing something but the issue is really about her having no boundaries. She has said yes to a bunch of responsibility that she shouldn't have and now resents you for not helping unburden her from these things she should never have said yes to in the first place.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

GettingIt said:


> The think is, resentment just doesn't go away. Even if the husband knocks off the behavior that purportedly caused it in the first place, it just doesn't magically disappear.
> 
> That's where husbands of wives who are LD because of resentment are screwed. There literally is nothing they can do if their wife won't 1. admit she's carrying resentment and 2. confront it and actively do the work to clear it.
> 
> ...


I gained 20 lbs during my wife's pregnancy. lol just thought I'd mention that....


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> The think is, resentment just doesn't go away. Even if the husband knocks off the behavior that purportedly caused it in the first place, it just doesn't magically disappear.
> 
> That's where husbands of wives who are LD because of resentment are screwed. There literally is nothing they can do if their wife won't 1. admit she's carrying resentment and 2. confront it and actively do the work to clear it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Ultimately the resentment is the responsibility of the person resenting and there's not much a partner can do if they want to hold on to the resentment. 

And unfortunately the LD partner isn't motivated to get rid of their resentment for the sake of sex.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

tommyr said:


> Actually if the observable symptom is no sex, then I respectfully disagree with your "let's dance around an important issue and feed into the wife's avoidance game playing" advice
> 
> Wife is feeling some burden in the marriage? She should bring that up! And long before any sex impact!


I actually agree with you. I'm not saying you should avoid talking about sex. And I totally agree that if the wife is feeling resentful, it's her job to bring stuff up. I'm just saying, if there is a pattern of no sex, don't assume it's hormones, or tiredness, or something physical. It is most likely emotional. So the appropriate thing to say when you see a no-sex pattern forming is "Hey, we haven't been having sex as much, is there anything we need to talk about?" The thing that won't work is trying to seduce her or "spice things up." 

A large percentage of men under the age of 45 who have Erectile Dysfunction have NO physical symptoms. It is psychosomatic. It's safe to say that for women, it's the same thing. Arousal doesn't occur because of emotional issues, not physical ones.


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

My LD wife has begun initiating again after i let her know just how badly i was doing not having sex with her.

Big blowup. I freaked out and laid down the gauntlet. I started forcing her to hold hands while walking in the street. She had started walking ahead of me ignoring that i was there.

I started forcing cuddling next to her in bed, forced holding hands in bed, forced putting my head on her stomach to watch tv in bed... basically amped up the "touching".

Simultaneously i put into play some of the things i learned here on TAM over the past few months of reading.

Just added a vibrator to the sex. She has Oed stronger than ever and has resulted in interesting side effects.

She withdraws and gets very emotional over the next 2-3 days. Seems as if her system overloads from the strong O and takes a couple days to recover.

I wonder if this is something LDs do when they start to come out of the shell.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

kennethk said:


> She withdraws and gets very emotional over the next 2-3 days. Seems as if her system overloads from the strong O and takes a couple days to recover.


You think she withdraws and gets emotional because of a killer orgasm? Seriously? OR...she is overwhelmed by being forced to do things she doesn't want to.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> You think she withdraws and gets emotional because of a killer orgasm? Seriously? OR...she is overwhelmed by being forced to do things she doesn't want to.



I have observed the same behavior with my wife.... But in her case it's BPD related, not wanting to be engulfed I suppose..


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

At some point it became clear that my wife was storing a megaton of anger and resentment, and that she was adamant about hanging on to it.



I explained that try as I might, there was nothing I could do to help her process that and make it lose its power over her. Even if I was the one responsible for it (which I dare say largely I am not).



I told her she either was going to put forth effort to address it, or I was going to have to leave.



I spent over a year waiting for movement, trying to encourage it at times, trying to wash my hands of it at times.



Only about the third time I mentioned I was seeking a lawyer did I start to see any movement.



Many insults from her to me along that path. Some interesting revelations too -- like at some point she decided to withold intentionally because no one listens, yet, she never declared that was her new policy. I suppose she liked to watch me feel her payback.



Yet, she has made a big change in her behavior. I partly suspect it just happened because she finished her hectic school program, and works only 6 hours a week.



Not sure where this will end. But sure, resentment can get ugly.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I often feel we should teach decision analysis along with the three R's,,,

Resentment has no street value. I can't take a suitcase full of it and buy a new camera. It has negative value since the acts and results it causes to the person holding the resentment are far more than it's "street value".

Yet people hold on to sh!t for ever... Especially some ethnic groups... Cultures... Etc.

If you hate the other guy so much just bail out. You're scoring a Pyrrhic victory for no apparent benefit. 

"I showed the [email protected]@rd" feels warm and fuzzy but at the end of the day the issues are still there. 

Are people really this pithy?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

firebelly1 said:


> Last night I attended a class on female sexuality and the teacher repeated what I have suspected for a long time - "LD" in women is emotional, not physical. It comes from resentment and the resentment is caused in large part because women are bad about having boundaries. We say yes when we mean no and vice versa and then resent our partner for asking.
> 
> I've thought for a while now that for all these men who want their wives to enjoy sex again, the last thing you need to talk with her about is sex and this confirmed it for me. Where does she feel burden? That's the place to start.


If they teach that LD is ALWAYS resentment then they are irresponsible. There are times when it's hormonal.

I agree that resentment is probably the issue in most cases, but far from all.

The same goes with men who appear LD and who withhold sex... it's usually resentment, but not always.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tommyr said:


> Actually if the observable symptom is no sex, then I respectfully disagree with your "let's dance around an important issue and feed into the wife's avoidance game playing" advice
> 
> Wife is feeling some burden in the marriage? She should bring that up! And long before any sex impact!


Why do you assume that the wife has not brought it up. Often women do and get nowhere. The husband does not take what their wife has said seriously. 

Sometimes she's been telling loud and clear and he's not listening.

Sometimes she's not saying anything and maybe does not even understand what's going on in her own head. 

In order to address the issues, first we'd have to determine which of the two scenarios exits.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

I get the sense some people see talk of resentment as an attack on the dissatisfied HD person in the relationship. I don't think that is necessarily the case. The resentment could be justified or it might not be. You have to look at the individual situation. 

A spouse could be resentful that they feel they do the majority of the heavy lifting in the relationship when in fact they're overlooking much of what their spouse does. The end result is the same but the root cause is different. 

So while it's prudent to review your own actions if you're not gettiing the sex you want you don't have to automatically assume responsibility. There are so many factors in play it's impossible to put all situations in the same box.


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

MaritimeGuy said:


> I get the sense some people see talk of resentment as an attack on the dissatisfied HD person in the relationship. I don't think that is necessarily the case. The resentment could be justified or it might not be. You have to look at the individual situation.
> 
> A spouse could be resentful that they feel they do the majority of the heavy lifting in the relationship when in fact they're overlooking much of what their spouse does. The end result is the same but the root cause is different.
> 
> So while it's prudent to review your own actions if you're not gettiing the sex you want you don't have to automatically assume responsibility. There are so many factors in play it's impossible to put all situations in the same box.


Absolutely. I don't intend at all to say that your partner's LD / resentment is your fault. I'm just saying that in most cases (and no, the class doesn't teach that in ALL cases it's resentment) but in many / majority / most cases LD is emotional rather than physical.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

I find this quite an interesting thread and have read all the comments and I have this to say. In my last relationship (which lasted 14 years) I became LD due to resentment about other parts of the relationship which were unsatisfactory. Despite many arguments and talks, these issues did not get sorted out which led to me losing respect for my man and being unable to have sex with him. I became LD and we didn't have sex for the last 18 months of the relationship. Being normally HD myself (as was my partner) I was very conscious that he wasn't getting his sexual needs met and eventually ended the relationship. 5 years later, I'm now married to a man who became LD immediately after the wedding (we didn't even have sex on our honeymoon). I've spoken to my husband several times about how this is affecting me and the effect it is having on our relationship. I'm now resenting the fact that we no longer have sex and I'm stuck in a sexless marriage. I had more sex than this when I was single! Resentment doesn't just cause LD, LD can cause resentment too as I'm sure many of the TAM members know.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

doobie said:


> Resentment doesn't just cause LD, LD can cause resentment too as I'm sure many of the TAM members know.


It's a downward spiral from there. Other negative things besides resentment feed off of all that too, such as feeling bad about ourselves (both the LD and the HD), adopting unhealthy coping habits (both, again), diminished capacity to feel anything (including love), depression, less communication, wanting to just avoid the other period....


I'm amazed anyone ever pulls a relationship out of such a dive. (I know they do. I suspect it takes a special pair of individuals.)


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> I often feel we should teach decision analysis along with the three R's,,,
> 
> Resentment has no street value. I can't take a suitcase full of it and buy a new camera. It has negative value since the acts and results it causes to the person holding the resentment are far more than it's "street value".
> 
> ...


I don't get this, john. You are the king of grudge holding resentment and have openly talked about how evil AND stupid your wife is, along with discussing the satisfaction you get out of any type of revenge you can put upon her. And all this is supposedly because you have to get your daughters through college before you can leave, even though that isn't actually true. Yet you're telling others to just bail if they hate the other guy so much? :scratchhead:


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't get this, john. You are the king of grudge holding resentment and have openly talked about how evil AND stupid your wife is, along with discussing the satisfaction you get out of any type of revenge you can put upon her. And all this is supposedly because you have to get your daughters through college before you can leave, even though that isn't actually true. Yet you're telling others to just bail if they hate the other guy so much? :scratchhead:



You missed the part about decision analysis I'm afraid. Facts generally tell an accurate picture of what's going on.

Also, I'm hardly the king of resentment and grudge holding. Just your logically thinking schlep who bids his time. Like most people I know what buttons to push, for what purpose, when, and how often. If I were said king I would have put my emotions ahead of logic and cause maximum damage by bailing a few years ago when it all started. Unfortunately, to quote one of the two divorce lawyers I talked to, "in our county the mother has to be Susan Smith for the father to get custody"... By the time this was solved when the girls turned 18 we have epic college bills to pay so...

The decision to bail out is not easy - it took me a while to arrive at that conclusion, hard as it may sound to believe partially based on what I read on TAM, and also based on what the future holds, not what the present holds.

I would absolutely love to get even at some point as a payback for the last 5-6 years but even I have a sliver of humanity left in me. Right now all I see is a calendar ticking down and after that it's not my circus and not my monkeys.

Anyhow, just try to understand that some of us are pretty good at not projecting our own feelings and actions upon others. A suggestion has to have merit on its own, rather than depend on the gravitas of the person making the suggestion.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I don't mean this as an insult john and you know I like you a lot...but I think you are one of the worst here when it comes to projection. I also don't buy anything else you just said. You are totally the grudge king around here and you openly talk about marital warfare and revenge, unlike anyone here.

But I do still like ya. Again, this isn't an insult it is simply me saying "let's get real here, john" because of your "if you hate them so much, leave" statement.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> I don't mean this as an insult john and you know I like you a lot...but I think you are one of the worst here when it comes to projection. I also don't buy anything else you just said. You are totally the grudge king around here and you openly talk about marital warfare and revenge, unlike anyone here.
> 
> But I do still like ya. Again, this isn't an insult it is simply me saying "let's get real here, john" because of your "if you hate them so much, leave" statement.



Not so fast, FW 

Don't get fixated on my catchy terminology but instead look at the meaning behind what I say. Marital warfare is silly if used without a meaning or purpose.

Consider an LD partner that is treatment resistant or immune to an 180. You have to convey your view of the marriage in no uncertain terms. If words fail, as they often do, then spicing up the situation with some conflict may well give the other partner reason to start questioning what's going on. 

Simply running marital warfare just because one partner dislikes the other and has a grudge is silly. Big difference.

A lot of it is also good cop bad cop strategy. Are you telling me that too does not work?

Revenge is a natural consequence of not being treated justly. Maybe we should call it another name, like, Justice? Consequences? Karma?

Consider Bob, my new cube mate. He's in the process of getting a divorce from a "useless, spendy wife". After 25 years and 6 kids. She's not working and will be enjoying life in a nice place on Bob's dime for the foreseeable future. Bob is a nice guy and a Nice Guy. To him getting even is unthinkable. Never mind he will work to age 80 to pay alimony and child support.

Revenge is just a thought - until it is acted upon. A desire. Maybe even the desire to come out of it relatively unharmed (except financially and likely emotionally) just to (and I quote Bob) "show the b!tch". Which is why Bob took a couple of kids and moved to my town. 

But Bob needs some tutoring - being a Nice Guy he spends hours a day on the phone STILL doing things for his STBX. Well, hello Bobster... Not the way it's supposed to work man. 

Funny thing, FW. Maybe I'm the king of bail out, but after he told me his story, very TAM-like, I switched to TAM mode and thought... WWJD... Well, I would not have suggested divorcing in his case, because his marriage was eminently fixable and they did not even try. Not at all. I just nodded like a Golden Retriever and offered some mumblitions of support.

Bottom line, FW, try to read the meaning behind people's words. The big picture. 

To get back to the topic of resentment, it's useful only when it serves a purpose. Think Yugoslavia. Middle East. Resentment has a lot of practical uses, much like the Check Engine light. Leave it on for too long and bad things WILL happen.

Bob never resented his wife's actions. When spending became an issue she simply told him she wants out. Do you think some healthy resentment by both sides would have caused intervention earlier?

Resentment by itself is useless. Resentment causing one to act is useful.

Incidentally, I'm in my best behavior of the year those days. We are spending a lot of quality time together (cycling), more than we ever spent in a decade. I do get some positive glimpses of things improving here and there but long term - the main concern I have - it does not look viable. But I'm happy to report that she has dropped 5 lb to 125 and toned a lot of muscle and tightened her tummy, and she's in the best shape I have seen her in a decade or so.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I do read what you are "really saying" john. I really do. I promise you. What you are always saying is "she is mean, she is bad, she is evil, she has BPD, she is stupid, she is an Asian princess, she this she that ... revenge is good," etc. It is always the same, including your post above. I'm confused as to how you don't think that's what you're saying. You just think that you have "reasons" to feel the way you do and that makes it ok. I'm not saying it isn't ok, I'm just saying, you are definitely the one and only person here I hear talking gleefully about marital warfare, and you are also the only person here I feel should definitely leave "if you hate her so much" as you said on the previous post.

I don't care about Bob or anyone else in what I'm saying to YOU right now...it is about you. The big picture or meaning behind any other poster's words is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about YOUR big picture and YOUR meaning behind YOUR words.

But again, I still likes ya! If you want to come back and tell me "not so fast" again, I can tell you right now that you'll still be saying "she this, she that, etc" the same as you've done above. It is always the same. You're happy to report she's lost 5 pounds? Sigh....


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

ps....love "mumblitions".


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

You're mixing facts, opinions, and desires. Just because one person wrote all that does not mean that they're interchangeable.

Having a reason to do something does change it, does it not? Criminalists call it motive? Intent? Is that important? I think so.

Hate is such a loaded word... So let's use it in context. I hate broccoli. I hate riding uphill with a 15mph headwind. But to hate the person I have lived with for 32 years? The mother of my children? My pillar of wealth :lol:? My cycling partner? Meh. 

Learn to read between the lines (seek meaning). Losing a few pounds by cycling is not too important in itself but it means she's not depressed, has a reasonably well functioning goal seeking mechanism, and cares about her appearance and health. Meaning, FW, the basic cognitive functions are running. It makes me feel a bit better about the future knowing that she won't become a basketcase.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Again, your meaning about your own marriage is very clear, no lines to read through. I don't need to "learn" anything in order to hear you VERY clearly with what you are REALLY saying about your wife and marriage. Trust me. It is all right there.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> Again, your meaning about your own marriage is very clear, no lines to read through. I don't need to "learn" anything in order to hear you VERY clearly with what you are REALLY saying about your wife and marriage. Trust me. It is all right there.




I have been meaning to respond to this since I first saw it. Apologies if my memory of this exchange are a bit stale...





No offense intended to anyone, but I am not sure why, FW, you are so confident you know what is in John's head w.r.t. his wife and marriage. At best he knows what he is thinking and feeling.



From what I have read from his posts, I suspect his thoughts are still in flux, and where his thoughts will lead him as a more comfortable window for change opens up, I wouldn't begin to guess.



I am fairly sure he is a thinker, and that includes introspection. He's pretty disciplined in his thought too. He is no less qualified to have insight into others' situations than the rest of us.



Just because he "could" project does not mean he does project. 



And sometimes, those who are in situations that resonate with another's have useful advise, even if for whatever reason we haven't taken it ourselves.



That's what makes this a difficult journey. It's a shadowy maze the whole darn way.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

If commitment means doing what one vowed to do, regardless of how one feels, then is a person who finds it acceptable to just quit performing because they are resentful even worth talking to? I don't need someone who will only be a wife on days they feel like being a wife. I do what the position of husband or father requires, regardless of how I happen to feel. That's why we take vows. Any fool can be counted on to do what they wish to do if they happen to wish to. Being dissatisfied is perfectly normal. Feeling resentment is normal. Checking out and continuing to receive the benefits of marriage while not participating is not ok. 
Not one of us got married with vows that included the qualifier, "if you happen to feel like it."


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry if someone else has already said this - I havent read every post.

When two people get married they are adults and should be fully aware what marriage is all about. Sex is not what marriage is ALL about but is IS a very important part of it.
Marriage is all about give and take, compromise, meeting in the middle etc.

So I'm sorry, but if a LD partner married someone who is HD then the LD partner HAS to raise the bar and the HD lower the bar so they meet in the middle.

If you aren't prepared to have a sex life with your partner, don't get married.

If you have gone off him/her during the course of your marriage then thats something different that you need to address.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Your post is partly right in my opinion. You probably have about three groups, 

1. Women who suffered abuse and have serious issues with sexuality. Even with them, the ultimate question is do they want to undergo counseling and address the issues to have a healthy marriage. 

2. Women who perceive bad marriages, adultery, disdain, lack of communication, but have decided not to divorce, but just not have sex. Here the husband do need to get to the underlying problems, see if there is a desire to restore a normal relationship if he changes. 

3. Difficult, self-centered women who have lost some of their desire and could have healthy, satisfying relationship but are unwilling to make modest accomodations for their husbands. Jane, if a marriage you are entitled to what you want and no one should ever put pressure on you. They are the counterpart to the unfaithful husband who believes it can be justified because a man has needs and is entitled to what he wants. 

Note that in healthy relationships sex might not be a central component for the average healthy woman. Before Viagara etc, there will men who became physically unable and the relationships continued for most women. Where the man does desire relations, a caring wife desires to make him happy as a man wants his wife to be happy in many other areas. 

3.


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## MaritimeGuy (Jul 28, 2012)

Marital warfare??!? Is that something like 'violent peace'? I don't know who first said it but they say, 'the best revenge is living well'. To me that is the only 'revenge' someone should aspire to when coming out of a bad marriage.

As we've identified many times in this forum we can't control other people actions...we can only control our own. So by extension if we choose to be married to a person that treats us poorly who is truly responsible?


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Just to add another bit....LD per se doesn't lead to resentment what does though is a LD spouse who simply refuses to understand her (or his) spouses needs and simply buries her/his head in the sand.

THAT leads to resentment...big time.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Au contraire, behavior modification methods have been around forever... Ask any parent 

And since most of us don't live in countries where divorce is quick and painless, "living well" has a few financial prerequisites that need to be met, not merely removing a ring...

Marital warfare is nothing more than calling a spade a spade...


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

Could all the LD / HD couples meet, and have the HD / HD partners enjoy swinging while the LD / LD partners chill and read a book or something?


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> Last night I attended a class on female sexuality and the teacher repeated what I have suspected for a long time - "LD" in women is emotional, not physical. It comes from resentment and the resentment is caused in large part because women are bad about having boundaries. We say yes when we mean no and vice versa and then resent our partner for asking.
> 
> I've thought for a while now that for all these men who want their wives to enjoy sex again, the last thing you need to talk with her about is sex and this confirmed it for me. Where does she feel burden? That's the place to start.


Not to be combative but then what would your take on my situation. We have not had sex in about a year and I have not said one word about it. Not a syllable. And yet, she somehow shows even less interest than before.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

tyler1978 said:


> Not to be combative but then what would your take on my situation. We have not had sex in about a year and I have not said one word about it. Not a syllable. And yet, she somehow shows even less interest than before.


She's happy that you haven't said anything. No pressure on her whatsoever...


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

justaguy123 said:


> She's happy that you haven't said anything. No pressure on her whatsoever...


This just shows that there are no absolutes in the world of human behavior. I have not initiated in almost 2 years. By the line of logic given before, that would take the pressure off her and she would come around. Yeah, well here is one countexample. My wife cares as much about sex as she does about cricket scores in Malaysia. We just had a child and so that changes things but she has pretty much asexual for the last 4 years.


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## justaguy123 (Aug 20, 2014)

tyler1978 said:


> This just shows that there are no absolutes in the world of human behavior. I have not initiated in almost 2 years. By the line of logic given before, that would take the pressure off her and she would come around. Yeah, well here is one countexample. My wife cares as much about sex as she does about cricket scores in Malaysia. We just had a child and so that changes things but she has pretty much asexual for the last 4 years.


Yup... sorry to hear that... tough place to be.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Well, the thing is that you need to have a good sense of financial independence first then make an issue out of your marriage. 

The point is to make the status quo challenging for her - assuming once again finances are not an issue. 

Even if they are, as she's making way more than you at this point, your financial obligations should be very limited. If it means working two jobs or what not, you're young. Think what your financial obligations will be in five years with a better paying job...

Talk to a lawyer about this and see what they say. I did and did not like the numbers as much so...


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

John, Have you defined somewhere here on TAM what you mean by marital warfare?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Probably. 

Think of your friendly NCO during boot camp or basic training. He's not going to take any krap from the recruits and will try to get them to understand what is going on in a hurry.

When dealing with someone that has an untreated personality disorder of some kind, or is he11 bent to have things done in one way, there's time for compassion, acceptance, and all the usual unicorny mumblitions and there's time for fireworks. 

Ultimately you have to make it understood that things are not 'chill' as in a textbook 180 case. Voice your dissatisfaction in no unclear terms and ensure that the dissatisfaction is mutual. A relationship where one partner (quoted?) is chill and the other is po'd tends to stay that way. There's a difference between that and whining, incidentally. 

It's childish obviously but it has to be. There are people who have underdeveloped emotional skills so...

It doesn't have to be done 24/7 - it defeats the purpose - but it has to be done randomly enough and often enough to keep them guessing. 

Eventually one side wears out and hopefully it's not you. If it's not you then they can reminisce about the old person they married and you have to show that too... Think good cop bad cop.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm not sure how you would do it randomly yet keep the dissatisfaction clearly defined and linked to the warfare events. I am not sure even what "it" is.



I think you are correct about the chill-po mismatch. My wife did next to nothing to improve things and subverted my attempts, until she (correctly) started to believe I was starting to walk away for real. But that is the opposite of random volleys. It is a single credible time bomb counting down in front of her, and she can defuse it or not, her choice.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's not easy - but you do learn a thing or two after a decade in the psychology building 

A ticking time bomb adds pressure to the other side but also to you because you have to carry on the threat if things don't change. 

And I have yet to be convinced that the threat of anything like that is a deterrent. Think of job performance. How many people go on having successful careers in a company after they're put on a performance improvement plan? In a college after probation? It happens but more often than not it does not work.

If the errant spouse had enough self realization to understand the implications of their actions would they be in this deep sh!t?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> Last night I attended a class on female sexuality and the teacher repeated what I have suspected for a long time - "LD" in women is emotional, not physical. It comes from resentment and the resentment is caused in large part because women are bad about having boundaries. We say yes when we mean no and vice versa and then resent our partner for asking.
> 
> I've thought for a while now that for all these men who want their wives to enjoy sex again, the last thing you need to talk with her about is sex and this confirmed it for me. Where does she feel burden? That's the place to start.


i hate to point this out firebelly, BUT, if a woman is LD and denying her husband, and she gets mad because he wants to talk about it.... is that not the classic women from mars/men from venus. A guy is going to want to talk about it. 

And if he tries to talk a few times and gets nowhere, he will get pissed, and maybe find another partner/divorce. 

A guy is not going to be able to comprehend your nuances.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

john117 said:


> If the errant spouse had enough self realization to understand the implications of their actions would they be in this deep sh!t?




True, the errant spouse does not have that self-realization presently. The intent is make things that inhibit awareness as difficult as possible. If denial is a factor, watching the other make his exit plan, work diligently on preparations, and step closer and closer to the door -- without angst, with confidence a better life is ahead -- seems like the best one can do, and MIGHT have an effect.



I withdrawal my time bomb analogy. A better analogy is to visibly start the pre-launch (launch?) sequence. Be visibly determined lift-off is going to happen, whether she jumps on board or not.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

I think the biggest issue with this whole "let's label everyone as either LD and HD" thing is the same thing I've probably said on dozens of other threads (or it just seems that way.)

Who gets to determine what is "normal" as the measuring stick?

Are we going to finally agree on TAM to have one solid definition of LD or HD? What is the acceptable "average" for sex and sex desire before you fall into either the LD or HD camp?

Because otherwise the definition seems to be - me and my partner have mismatching desires for sex. Obviously one of us has a problem. And someone who is LD obviously has a mental, emotional, of physical problem. And not just - that is the way they are. Not everyone is tuned the same way. 

As much as everyone wants to say "Sorry - if there's nothing wrong with you - you should want to have sex a lot" that's a really simplified vision of human sexuality. Get some women on TAM to openly discuss what it's like to be someone with what I'll label "low O syndrome" (wherein even when they do O it's not this angel-weeping experience everyone always discusses) not everyone has the same physical reaction to sex. 

Why does someone who wants less sex always need a label as LD? Why is someone who wants more sex always HD? It just seems to me that these labels are thrown all over TAM as a way to champion high-drive for sex as legitimate and low-drive for sex as abnormal and deserving of chastisement.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

The label is applied based on what is typical for a given population. Sex once a month may be ideal for some cultures but an anathema for others.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Okay ... so if it's that obvious, what is the acceptable norm we are going with? What population are we defining?

Is it by country? Age? Gender?


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## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> i hate to point this out firebelly, BUT, if a woman is LD and denying her husband, and she gets mad because he wants to talk about it.... is that not the classic women from mars/men from venus. A guy is going to want to talk about it.
> 
> And if he tries to talk a few times and gets nowhere, he will get pissed, and maybe find another partner/divorce.
> 
> A guy is not going to be able to comprehend your nuances.


I'm not saying don't talk about it at all...I think I clarified that a little earlier. Mostly I'm saying that physiology usually isn't the problem, emotions are, so best to approach the problem of no sex as how to fix her resentments as opposed to her lady parts.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

tyler1978 said:


> Not to be combative but then what would your take on my situation. We have not had sex in about a year and I have not said one word about it. Not a syllable. And yet, she somehow shows even less interest than before.


You didn't say anything because you know you would be wasting your breath and also didn't want to beg for it?

You don't want to be degraded by the rejection?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

firebelly1 said:


> I'm not saying don't talk about it at all...I think I clarified that a little earlier. Mostly I'm saying that physiology usually isn't the problem, emotions are, so best to approach the problem of no sex as how to fix her resentments as opposed to her lady parts.



When sex becomes this rare it's a control issue - once she has established he's staying put, push the envelope until he bails out so she can either be single and have fun - single mom is still single - or find someone else.


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## pushing50 (Aug 5, 2010)

murphy5 said:


> i hate to point this out firebelly, BUT, if a woman is LD and denying her husband, and she gets mad because he wants to talk about it.... is that not the classic women from mars/men from venus. A guy is going to want to talk about it.
> 
> And if he tries to talk a few times and gets nowhere, he will get pissed, and maybe find another partner/divorce.
> 
> A guy is not going to be able to comprehend your nuances.


Were you snooping at my house this afternoon??


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

john117 said:


> When sex becomes this rare it's a control issue - once she has established he's staying put, push the envelope until he bails out so she can either be single and have fun - single mom is still single - or find someone else.


No other choice. Other than to be sexless and/or sexless with her getting it on the side, because she has established control that her needs are going to be met without providing sex and intimacy and you are not going anywhere.


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