# Can you discuss money rationally with women



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

We are having some financial issues, not as bad as many. Some basic questions. 

Is there a way to review costs and expenses and reach decisions without the following. Her talking about bad she feels, and then calling 43 friends and family, Yes, we are having financial problems, Bob doesn't really want people to know, that's why I have made sure to call at least 14 family members 3times this week and explain the details. Is this a way you can get women to say what's done is done, we'll made it a decision, or she can make it, and go on with our lives.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Why are you so concerned with her telling her friends and family? I'm wondering if the financial problems are largely your fault and you want her to hide your secret to protect your image. Am I right?

Either way, try to explain in more detail.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> We are having some financial issues, not as bad as many. Some basic questions.
> 
> Is there a way to review costs and expenses and reach decisions without the following. Her talking about bad she feels, and then calling 43 friends and family, Yes, we are having financial problems, Bob doesn't really want people to know, that's why I have made sure to call at least 14 family members 3times this week and explain the details. Is this a way you can get women to say what's done is done, we'll made it a decision, or she can make it, and go on with our lives.


Well gee I don't know,can you discuss money rationally with men? 

Seriously,are you asking your wife to hide your mistakes? I bet she's calling all those people bc she's highly upset about what happened to put you in the financial pickle you're in currently.She probably feels you aren't taking her concerns and feelings seriously bc you want her to feel like you do about it "what's done is done." "get on with your life.". 

So, what happened?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

Gotta say: this is one thing where my wife and I are extremely compatible. Neither of us are emotional spenders, and we both believe in the power of creating a budget and sticking to it. We have zero urge to keep up with the Joneses, would rather save a dollar than waste a dollar, and neither of us have ever made a large purchase without consulting the other.

---

As for your situation, it seems really evident that you're not on the same page. Is one of you spending money on things which the other is not in agreement with?

Is something as simple as creating a family budget a big fight? I know that in my brother's case, his wife was committing financial infidelity in their relationship, and when he finally wanted to sit down and make a budget, she *freaked* out and accused him of being controlling. What it really was: she didn't want him to find out about all of the money she was spending all over the place.

And now... They're in bankruptcy.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Fair enough comments. Actually I have been a pretty good provider over the years and think that our financial situation is not particularly anyone's business. 

Put another way, let's say my wife and I were having issues in bed, any reason why I shouldn't be able to discuss that with members of my family and hers, as well as friends. Presumably one would say no because that is private, personal, and potentially embarassing. I assume men feel the same way about money issues as it does impact our self-image. 

Putting aside my own situation, I see wives doing this with other people family/friends and it seems annoying and counter-productive. 

I have one friend/family member who unfortunately postpones discussion of financial issues or problems because he'd rather hope for some future solution than deal with her publicly ventilating her frustration for a period now.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Well, she really shouldn't go around spilling the business to everyone bc that's never good for a marriage. It's tough for people to realize they can't go around airing their laundry then expect people to forget about it when things are good again.

If you want it to stop you're going to have to do a better job of hearing her out so she doesn't feel like she has to seek outside sources for her venting.


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## NewHubs (Dec 23, 2012)

My wife is *HORRIBLE* when it comes to this. If I even mention the word "dollar" she gets stressed out. Yes, money is tight right now for us but my wife doesn't see where we could be saving.

I'm not lucky in this respect


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## cons (Aug 13, 2013)

Although the title of this thread reflects your personal experience, it does disservice to you, in that it generalizes and assumes that only women are irrational when it comes to money...

I hear that you want to have a good plan of action...a state of the union (financially speaking)...setting up a budget...showing transparency when it comes to finances in your marriage...

...for some reason she is highly emotional in this subject....why?

Is this state of finances primarily due to your doing? Therefore affecting her feelings of security....
Or perhaps your current financial picture is primarily her doing? In which she may be having a shame reaction and wanting some level of reassurance from you...

Instead of focusing on how she should become more rational as you put it...why not try to see how you could change the dynamic...Put ego aside and avoid a right/wrong argument...work on finding the right connection in the way you speak with each other...


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I agree with the advice to be transparent with your wife about your finances, and really, about everything.

We cannot really control other people.

If you are a sounding board for your wife, she may not feel the need to talk to other people, or she might. 

Have other people given her any advice you have found helpful?


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Bobby5000 said:


> Fair enough comments. Actually I have been a pretty good provider over the years and think that our financial situation is not particularly anyone's business.
> 
> Put another way, let's say my wife and I were having issues in bed, any reason why I shouldn't be able to discuss that with members of my family and hers, as well as friends. Presumably one would say no because that is private, personal, and potentially embarassing. I assume men feel the same way about money issues as it does impact our self-image.
> 
> ...


Well, you have a problem then. Your wife feels she needs the support of friends and family to comfort her over the financial anxiety. If you try to get her to stop, how will she fulfill that need? Remember that she is not you. Perhaps she simply cannot just keep it to herself and needs to talk about it to cope. Is she allowed to talk about it with you or do you tell her to just put it in the past?

I really can't say too much more if you are unwilling to share the specifics of your situation. I can respect your choice, but it does reinforce my opinion that you feel some sort of shame about the situation. Toss that in the trash. No need for you to feel shame over financial hardships. Lots of people go through the same thing. How you got here is nowhere near as important as how you are going to fix it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Have you asked her why she feels the need to burden others with the financial problems? 

Everyone has problems and unless you're risking being homeless, she needs to suck it up and get over the whining. She might be blabbering to get over any guilt she feels for being partly/wholly responsible for the predicament.

A better use of her time would be to review where the family can cut expenses.


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## John Lee (Mar 16, 2013)

Let's keep "women" out of this. You want to know whether it's possible to rationally discuss money with your wife. I'm not sure from your posts what about money it is that you want to discuss from her. What I do hear you saying is that she blabs about your problems to everyone, and I can understand why that would be embarrassing, and I agree that it's not appropriate. I think you need to start by telling her that you aren't ok with her discussing financial problems with so many people -- it not only makes you feel bad, but it can also harm your relationships with people. But you also need to be prepared to hear her out about what she's feeling. Maybe she thinks something that happened is your fault and she's taking it out by telling people about it?


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

No, you can't.

We're all mindless idiots with big mouths, insatiable greed, and...oh yeah...we're spendthrifts. We suck!


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## papa5280 (Oct 12, 2011)

It sounds like the core issue is that you have different values about money and relationships with money. I'm an analyst by nature. I use software to track my cash flow, because that type of analysis is meaningful and fun for me. I feel good about saving, because I like to set a goal and hit it. The accumulation of wealth is a side benefit. I just like keeping score, and seeing how I can make small changes in my behavior to affect my bottom line.

My exW had a different view of money. Money earned was money to be spent. If the checkbook says there's $100 and she want's something that costs less than that, then she would buy it.

So, if I wanted to talk about money and review finances, as you say, to me, that's just analysis. Maybe we decide to cut here or there, or maybe we can afford to treat ourselves to something. To her, talking about money meant, from her perspective, her being "in trouble" and me trying to impose my values on her. So, we didn't talk much. We figured out what we had as income, she told me how much she needed/wanted for the bills she paid and mad money, and I took care of the rest, in terms of my spending, savings and investments. I knew I could review "my" money and "our" money as much as I wanted, but would never be able to really get her to play that game with "her" money. Had I tried, I'm quite sure her sisters would have shared in the discussion immediately.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> No, you can't.
> 
> We're all mindless idiots with big mouths, insatiable greed, and...oh yeah...we're spendthrifts. We suck!


:rofl:

It is a daft first post on this thread. 

I think there are many people for whom buying stuff and self worth are highly linked, and my impression is it is more women than man. That said, I have not been in a relationship with men. Therefore, numerate people will get a couple in debt in a relationship with elaborate justifications of why such and such is actually, "deserved", a saving or needed.

Personally, I would give myself credit for being able to adjust outgoings without it affecting my self-worth. However, at the moment, I am working and my wife is not prepared to. I sometimes resent the cut backs I have to make and living a much more modest life than my colleagues to fund this. I find that I am therefore just the same.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

NewHubs said:


> My wife is *HORRIBLE* when it comes to this. If I even mention the word "dollar" she gets stressed out. Yes, money is tight right now for us but my wife doesn't see where we could be saving.
> 
> I'm not lucky in this respect


I (wife) am the money person in this household, so this does not come up for us. He asks. I answer. Sometimes my answer is, I have been doing a craptastic job, you can see it here and here and here. I am willing to reinvigorate my efforts, get help from you or turn it over to you, which do you think we should do? And sometimes I am able to say, LOOK AT THE SAVINGS ACCOUNT. I ROCK. Meh.

But there seems to be enough commonality of this issue for Dave Ramsey to discuss this in one of his his books. It is, apparently, related to a sense of security. He tells a story from his own life in which he was an investment banker or some such. Rolling in cars, nice house, vacations. Wife was ALWAYS on him about money. Because he was extended in debt. They lost it all. He woke up. Got smarter. Got out of debt, and SAVED. Wife was massively happy. Considerably reduced life style. Security.

Massive summation and inaccuracies mine.


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## JustRon (Feb 16, 2014)

sh987 said:


> financial infidelity


I've never heard this term before, but it's what W is doing to me. 

Thank you. I will use this in the confrontation.


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

JustRon said:


> I've never heard this term before, but it's what W is doing to me.
> 
> Thank you. I will use this in the confrontation.


Good luck!


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Can I discuss money rationally with women?

Er, yes, why are you unable to?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

whats to talk about if your the one making the money then you make the decisions.

anything else and you being foolish!


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

Sorry, a marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship ruled by whoever currently makes the most money.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

Starstarfish said:


> Sorry, a marriage is supposed to be a partnership, not a dictatorship ruled by whoever currently makes the most money.


I strongly agree with this. That said, my wife only makes token efforts to find work and while this continues, it becomes a dictatorship. It is genuiely a shame as it is not what I want at all.


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## Lift326 (Mar 18, 2014)

With the right woman you can. 

My wife once sold me the she can take Care of the bills routine and I let her do it. I am cheap don't spend a lot. Was going good until the bills backed up and I got a notice from the light company that our lights would be off in 14 days.

I charged it to the game of life and took over the bills. Well paying them.

I feel and my emotions can't be just blamed on the guys..... Seriously go inthe men's section on this site..... So many feelings in their sometimes I almost just want to start a battle thread just so they can re-man up ..... 

Sorry got off topic... Still just get her to pay her share a little over and setup a savings account. Could be she puts in $20 a check and you put in $50 as an emergency fund for household car and medical emergencies. Not bills or shoe/clothing sales. 

Or you could just split the bills my wife and i did that. She has house bills to take care of and so do I. We have separate checking accounts a joint checking account a joint savings and individual savings well hers is like a second checking account but hey as long as the bills are paid and she comes up with her share of the holiday and vacation money we are ok.

May not be bad for you to do the same. I meanif the internet, tv and groceries are not bought she will suffer and all of these tie into shopping so she makes sure they are paid


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

The only reason I could see my wife (or any wife) go outside to family and friends about our financial situation is if I was doing something that she strongly didn't agree with and I wasn't listening to her.

Something like, I quit my job to pursue my life long dream of being an artist. 

Or I was running a business for a couple of years and wasn't making any money and my wife could see it wasn't going to improve, but I wouldn't listen to her.

My guess is she has opinions about your financial situation that you are not taking into account. So she is trying to find support somewhere else.

The only way we could really help is if you let us know more information about what has caused or is causing your financial issues.


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## Mr.D.E.B.T. (Jul 19, 2012)

This question seems to have everything to do with assumed/discussed marital agreements, not who is right or wrong.

The truth about marriage is that neither the husband or wife can be forced to behave the way their spouse wants him/her to. If your wife chooses to divulge your personal financial activities with friends or family that is her choice. You should always voice your opposition to her behavior, but not simply to demean her. If she refuses to comply with your request, stop enabling her to be able to discuss your personal financial matters with other people. There is no need to be sneaky or underhanded in this situation. Simply tell her that you've explained several times that you are not comfortable with her actions and as a result you will not be sharing all of your financial endeavors with her. Therefore, when she is speaking to others about your finances, she will only be speaking based on limited information. You can feel comfort knowing that whomever she is speaking to doesn't really know what's going on with your finances and let them think whatever they want to think. If the shoe were on the other foot, I would suggest she do the same to you.


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## appletree (Oct 9, 2012)

It seems that you are the one who cannot talk to your wife about finances at least you do not seem to listen to her, otherwise she would not phone all her 43 friends.


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## Redpill (Mar 20, 2014)

I don't think so Bobby. Women generally are emotional creatures. It doesn't matter if 1+1=2. It's about the FEELINGS. How do you FEEL? 

My experience with women has also shown me that many of them don't think about longterm goals, it's all about what they want in the "here and now". She's just gotta have it "now"! And if you are unable to give it to her, guess what? You're a failure of a man and a terrible husband in her eyes.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> I don't think so Bobby. Women generally are emotional creatures. It doesn't matter if 1+1=2. It's about the FEELINGS. How do you FEEL?
> 
> My experience with women has also shown me that many of them don't think about longterm goals, it's all about what they want in the "here and now". She's just gotta have it "now"! And if you are unable to give it to her, guess what? You're a failure of a man and a terrible husband in her eyes.



Exactly 100% what I am and have been dealing with myself for some time now . My wife sets irrational and highly unrealistic emotion based goals and expectations for our lives that I have no possible way of meeting therefor I and everyone in my local culture are lazy slackers now.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

It has nothing to do with gender, it is about money personality.

Equally some men and women are not good with money and have unrealistic expectations. Equally some men and women are great with money and have realistic expectations.

I would take a guess that those that have trouble with their spouse in this area did not put much thought into this before marriage. Even after marriage the ex and I can still talk about financial matters rationally, we even hold a investment property portfolio together.

If you cannot discuss money rationally with your spouse that is an issue in your marriage, it is juvenile to say it is a problem with women in general.


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## married tech (Jan 18, 2014)

> If juvenile means fact, then sure.


I wouldn't call it a fact by any means. I can name enough guys who are as bad or worse than any woman I have ever seen when it comes to money. 

Not bad people in either case. Just no natural self control or ability to get 'because I spent all my money on impulse buy X today I can't pay Y and Z bills like I am supposed to tomorrow'. 

(Where did the post I just quoted from go? ) :scratchhead:


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

married tech said:


> I wouldn't call it a fact by any means. I can name enough guys who are as bad or worse than any woman I have ever seen when it comes to money.
> 
> Not bad people in either case. Just no natural self control or ability to get 'because I spent all my money on impulse buy X today I can't pay Y and Z bills like I am supposed to tomorrow'.
> 
> *(Where did the post I just quoted from go? ) :scratchhead:*


Glad you put that line in because I was confused by your post


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## Stevenj (Mar 26, 2014)

The best solution is to cut expenses, make more money and have your wife keep the problems in the marriage


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> A better use of her time would be to review where the family can cut expenses.


Is it possible that she has high financial standards / financial standards that are beyond your ability to satisfy?


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

My suggestions. 

1. Have most of the money in a joint pot, but ideally each spouse should have some ability to make smaller purchases without supervision. 

2. If you a woman, recognize that a man's wage-earning ability is closely connected with his sense of self-worth. Imagine a man saying, "look Jane, you're average looking and that's all right, sometimes I think, wouldn't it be great to come home to a beautiful blonde, take her out places but it wasn't meant to be." Or worse, sure Bob, I'd like a cuter wife, Jane is somewhat plain but I have come around to accept that it's not going to get any better and just accept what I have. I think everyone would say that is coarse and hurtful but how many women talk about how they want a fancier house and neighborhood reflecting their dissatisfaction with their current husband's income. 

The comparison is apt. Tell a man he's out of shape or getting fat he'll probably agree, tell him he's a failure in business he will be hurt or become very angry. 

3. Encourage discussions. If you are a woman and scream and cause an ongoing conflict for the next two weeks over something, the husband will try to conceal issues or problems. You have to be able to discuss things in a blame-free environment. If you are man, recognize that wives want to discuss things and being kept out is itself frustrating. Women handle stress and pressure at least as well as men, and don't associate a periodic yell as her inability to deal with problems. 

4. If you are a woman and have solutions voice them in a clear and decisive way; men understand yes or no, do this or don't- not gradations, it's be nice if this happened, etc. Want him to invest in stocks, don't complain if the market goes down; want money in the bank, don't tell him about Rose's husband who made all this money in the market. 

5. Keep a decent sex life. If you diminish his self-esteem, he will probably be less successful at work and talk to you less. For a husband, problems may be resolved, an affair is a blot forever. She will get over the 8,000 that was lost on a bad investment, not that you slept with some cute girl at work who was complimenting you on a business trip after your wife complained that she wanted to move to the fancy new development in the town next store.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Yeah Bobby3000, I think you were generalising somewhat thinking your wife is representative of all women. As my post would show. I get that it can be embarrassing for anyone who has always earned well, to have financial problems. 

And blame is a big issue. I've discussed our issues vaguely with some friends, but it embarrasses me. If your wife is calling everyone and blaming you for the issues, that's something to call her on. It's unfair. 

Recognising your issues and starting to deal with them is worthy. Maybe your wife doesn't like the change in situation? Maybe she needs someone to talk to about it? It's a great opportunity for the two of you to have a better understanding of each other. I get that you're feeling sensitive about it. How about you explain this to her, and ask for her support. Maybe she needs your support to help get through the changes you're going through? 

Good luck


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Bobby5000
You can discuss money rationally with some PEOPLE and not with others. 

I think the first step if there are financial problems is to remember that there are people out there with more money than you can possible imagine, and people with less money than you can possibly imagine. It is pointless to worry what other people will think of your financial situation.

The come up with a system for managing money that lets each of you have some of your own spending money, but reserves the majority for things that you really need.


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## 3kgtmitsu (Jul 28, 2012)

my wife and I think very differently about money..

For example, 

She goes to the store and I tell her what the budget is for food*.

What happens is almost every time she goes over it...sometimes as much as double.

She also doesn't add up what she spends through a day.

$100 on groceries, but then she stops for gas, stops to get a coffee, maybe something more, brining the total up to $200.

End of the day I ask what she spent, she says $100. She for some reason doesn't think the other little expenses add up. To me its simple math, to her its not for some reason.


I am solely the money maker in the house right now, and for the most part, she has not had a long term career up until now although she is in nursing school, so I think the problem is there is no 'remorse' for spending, there is no association with 'work' related to money, at least not the same way I feel it. I put in hard work for that, so I hate wasteful spending. 

Now that I am certainly guilty of it too at times, there are times when I am just too tired to care or worry about it. All I can do is regulate it, I only make enough available to cover what SHOULD be spent. I would hate to think about what would happen if I didn't constantly monitor it.

BTW all of this wasteful spending is always justified, It turns into a speech about how this is for 'us' and etc etc etc... spend based on what I know is coming up for bills etc, and what is coming in. I am not afraid to buckle down and spend nothing...she almost can't handle that, it makes it extremely difficult to ever plan anything, or save over the long term. Her answer to saving is 'what your not saving'??? as if I just have some additional income to just cover overspending and save too...lol. She just simply cannot operate within limits. Luckily I own a small business, so I CAN control what goes into the personal account....if theres an overdraft fee or anything that's totally unacceptable. I had to do it this way because otherwise we would be making $60k a year and be totally completely flat out broke. It took one month of spending over $1500 on groceries and seeing a fat bank account disappear to realize I need to take control big time.

So yes I feel all of your pain, I am hoping that this general detachment feeling towards money changes once shes out of school and actually earning..


She has gotten better...but she still just doesn't 'get' it.


I think a lot of the problem is society in large encourages us to overspend...and deal with the consequences later. Its pretty simple to make a budget, and when $ X> $Y, don't spend, at least IMO.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

Despite other faults and issues, my wife is an absolute peach about finances. Our spending strategies mesh perfectly. Probably because we came from extremely similar backgrounds, and met while living under extremely similar circumstances. (next door, in college, each 3 roommates)

Crafting similar outlooks helps very much. If you agree on big goals, then saving will make more sense. Another issue is outlook on work. If you look at work as something you do now to fund what you REALLY want to do later, that also facilitates saving and investing.

Lastly, until at least one partner becomes very interested in investing wisely, thoughtfully and with dedication, it will be much harder to reach those goals.


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## waylan (Apr 23, 2014)

I don't think this is a gender problem. I think people have very different thoughts around finances. In what type of environment was the person brought up in?

My wife has literally zero understanding surrounding finances. She can only relate to the now and becomes frustrated with any talk of finances or future planning. When I met her - her parents were in their 40's and had a negative net worth. They had never been able to scrape enough money to put a down payment on house - they rented one instead. They both worked and made good money - they just blew threw it paycheck to paycheck. This is her "normal" and my challenge.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

> I don't think so Bobby. Women generally are emotional creatures. It doesn't matter if 1+1=2. It's about the FEELINGS. How do you FEEL?
> 
> My experience with women has also shown me that many of them don't think about longterm goals, it's all about what they want in the "here and now". She's just gotta have it "now"! And if you are unable to give it to her, guess what? You're a failure of a man and a terrible husband in her eyes.



How offensive. You and the OP think all women are like your wives?!? Please. I'm female and its not my fault you married financial idiots.

I'm female. I own my own home. I own my car. I have a very lucrative portfolio and hate wasting money.

I don't buy junk. I don't waste money on nonsense and I keep a monthly spreadsheet on expenditures which I enjoy monitoring. I've had perfect credit for my entire adult life and even when I didn't make much money, I was a saver. I have always worked full-time. I've already put one child through university.

I really detest people who make stupid gender biased statements. Your wives are crappy with money because you married people who don't have common sense with money. There are both men and women that fall into this category.

Why the two of you insist on telling your private matters to people outside of your relationship is equally stupid. Neither one of you have the respect for each other to keep your issues between the two of you and that's pathetic.

You have a wife who's not committed to making the decisions that would strengthen your family and you're equally guilty of the same. Neither one of you sounds like relationship material. I feel pity for the both of you.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good afternoon all
I agree with Waylan and Nikita2270, this has nothing to do with gender. In my marriage, I'm the less financially sensible one. I think people fall along an entire spectrum from misers to spendthrifts. Both extremes are bad, and there is even some room in the middle for people to disagree significantly. 

If someone has found that all of the women or men they have dated have been terrible with money, they might look to themselves to see how they are meeting these people.


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