# Wife accuses me of cheating...a lot



## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

What's the best way to deal with constant accusations? My intro thread is below, but the short summary - W suffers from depression/anxiety. I think she also has low self-esteem, and is possibly a high-functioning Borderline (BPD). Most of her bf's(likes the badboys) cheated on her. Her dad died when she was a little kid, and that likely has a part in this. I've never cheated (nearly 20 years married), and I don't think I give her reasons to think I would. I have read Athol's stuff, and I have worked to up my s*x rank over the past few years. She's noticed, but it only seems to make her more anxious/worried. 

I seem to get accused every few weeks or so. If I'm a few mins later than usual coming from the gym after work, or running errands, etc. If my phone rings, or hell, if I just pick up my phone, she accuses and runs over to see who I'm talking to - "Let me see your phone!" A few months ago, a waitress at a restaurant we regularly go to would visit our table and chat with us. After the 2nd time this happened, my W blew up and told me she KNEW that I was F-ing the waitress. She could just tell from the way she looked at me. 

I've tried a mix of things, including humor, logic, denial, ignoring the accusation, etc. So...I don't know...should I just blow it off completely, or take a stand on it?

And yes, my gut starts to tingle when she ramps up the accusations. I know that the guilty are quick to point the finger.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

I have no suggestions. I feel your pain though.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I have no suggestions. I feel your pain though.


Thanks. I didn't want to hijack your thread, so I started this one. Maybe we could swap crazy-azz examples, but the ones you posted might be tough to top.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

HAHA! Have you seen the way my thread has gone? Those crazy Social Spotters got ahold of it! No worries on hijacking. 

I wish I had helpful info for you, but as you've seen, I'm a jean-wearing tramp myself.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I wish I had helpful info for you, but as you've seen, I'm a jean-wearing tr*mp myself.


Jeans...no problem. If I slip on something nicer...W thinks every woman in town is going to hop on me, even if she's standing next to me.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

I'm surprised no one has jumped on your thread with the whole "blameshifting" thing. 

How do you handle it when she throws this stuff at you? Personally, I used to get really upset about it. Not so much anymore, now I find most of it amusing, and sad. I do for the most part try to avoid doing anything that might make him think/feel insecure by my actions. I haven't gone to get my haircut in 7 months because of the way he reacted last time. It turned into a pretty heated fight.  Yet, I antagonize him intentionally with the jeans, because it's such a dumb accusation.


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## TemperToo (Apr 23, 2011)

Been there! I have no advice, my accuser decided to take himself out of my life after 12 years. But you are not alone. It does suck.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I also find it amusing and/or sad. I don't flirt in front of my wife, and I don't think I'm doing anything that should make her so insecure, so I don't see where I could avoid things that make her that way. 

Just thinking of examples...at a recent school function, a mom walked over to me, grabbed my arm and started talking to me. W was near, and saw all of this. I don't know if this mom is flirty or friendly...I didn't flirt back, but I did talk to her for a few mins about the kids (our sons are friends). When she walked off, W unloaded on me - "That bytch was flirting with you! I should go kick her azz. WTF were you talking to her about?" She then goes on to tell me that I'm leading this woman on, and that I should be rude to her the next time she walks up.

The waitress thing I mentioned in the first post...we actually went round and round for days on that one, which was stupid of me. I tried logic, which never works. Eventually I just said we should drive to the restaurant and confront the poor girl. I grabbed my keys...W backed down.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

TemperToo - great avatar.:smthumbup:


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## TemperToo (Apr 23, 2011)

LOL, thanks! 

I am sorry you are having to go through this. It isn't fun. The only thing I could figure with mine was that: 1. Yes, he was (is) VERY insecure. Which is his problem, not mine. 2. He was also suspected borderline....ALWAYS saw black and white, ZERO gray areas in life. 3. I am a very social, nice person. I like people and liked to make new friends and he did not. He was anti-social.

Looking back, I honestly wonder how we ended up together (and lasted nearly 13 years!) to begin with!

Someone on here will have some constructive advice for you!


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

TemperToo said:


> LOL, thanks!
> 
> I am sorry you are having to go through this. It isn't fun. The only thing I could figure with mine was that: 1. Yes, he was (is) VERY insecure. Which is his problem, not mine. 2. He was also suspected borderline....ALWAYS saw black and white, ZERO gray areas in life. 3. I am a very social, nice person. I like people and liked to make new friends and he did not. He was anti-social.
> 
> ...


You were married to my husband too???


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

The thing for me is, it's not even perceived flirting that's an issue. It's such benign crap that leads him to the accusations! I could see if he thought I was chatting someone up, and was jealous, but it's not even anything like that. Just random stupid stuff. *sigh*


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## TemperToo (Apr 23, 2011)

Satus - Must've been! Glad he's not my problem anymore! LOL!

Thunder, the best advice I can give you is to try your best to find your own happiness. Although that just made my husband resent me more when he couldn't "control" me. But I was so tired of trying to be the person he wanted me to be just to keep the peace. It starts to kill your soul. I am so not even close to the person I was a year ago....I never knew I could feel so empowered and HAPPY....


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> The thing for me is, it's not even perceived flirting that's an issue. It's such benign crap that leads him to the accusations! I could see if he thought I was chatting someone up, and was jealous, but it's not even anything like that. Just random stupid stuff. *sigh*


Yours actually sounds worse than mine. Still...you can't stop being YOU in an attempt to soothe him. You'll only torture yourself that way. If you want a haircut, go get a haircut. Go get a great FN haircut.

I kind of repeated what Temper wrote above, but yeah...that's what I've come to realize. I can't always soothe her, and I refuse to bend over backwards so that she doesn't feel insecure.


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## TemperToo (Apr 23, 2011)

I once heard that a relationship with a BPD person either lasts 15 months or 15 years (roughly.) In the relationship that only lasts 15 months, the BPD's partner is an emotionally healthy individual who sees the true nature of the beast come out after the "honeymoon" period, and gives the relationship a normal time frame to try and resolve before realizing that there is no hope and gets out.

In the relationship that lasts 15 years, the BPD's partner/spouse is an enabler (nice guy, doormat, whatev.) that suffers for a crazy long period of time wondering what they are doing wrong before realizing that they HAVE to search for thier own happiness to keep their sanity. As soon as the partner of a BPD person starts to heal themselves and refuses to be a doormat anymore, the one with BPD realizes that they can't be dependent on the healed spouse/partner anymore and eventually leaves.

I was the spouse who was a doormat, enabler, nice gal, etc. He left me. I'm so very glad he did. I hate to say it, but it probably is just a matter of time before she MIGHT be the one to decide to leave....


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Temper - I'm not qualified to diagnose her as BPD, so I may be completely wrong on that. It could be that her array of other issues cause BPD-like behavior. With that said, we're kind of following the script you described. I keep reading that flawed people attract flawed people...that was us. I had my own shyte to deal with. Once we started having kids, and the marriage was stressed...neither of us were ready for that. I went into Nice Guy mode, walking on eggshells to keep the peace. I had my wake up call about 4 years ago, and worked my azz off to become the man/husband/father I wanted to be. She...keeps slipping down a bad slope.

I agree with you that it's probably a matter of time before she decides to leave, probably for a new doormat who makes her feel "special."  For now, with the kids at home, I think she needs (vs. wants) this marriage. In a strange way, I think I'm filling a daddy role for her. So confusing...


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> I had my wake up call about 4 years ago, and worked my azz off to become the man/husband/father I wanted to be.


Did her reaction/interaction with you change when you did? Just curious.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Sooo, ummm... Am I a "doormat"? :scratchhead:

(sorry, don't mean to threadjack, just wondering... )


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Sooo, ummm... Am I a "doormat"? :scratchhead:
> 
> (sorry, don't mean to threadjack, just wondering... )


Nevermind. I googled.  I'm a doormat.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Nevermind. I googled.  I'm a doormat.


D'oh! I felt like I was a doormat during my Nice Guy days. I would take a dive and/or walk on eggshells to keep the peace and/or soothe her. I'm sorry if that word made you sad. When I think back on how I was for years...it makes me furious. I am very critical of that guy, but luckily I kicked his azz and he's gone for good. 


StatusQuo said:


> Did her reaction/interaction with you change when you did? Just curious.


Yes, the dynamics of our relationship have changed a lot over the past few years. Some good...some bad. She likes some of the new me...more direct, more confident, more leading the family, more take no shyte from anybody. At the same, I think it scares her and raises her anxiety issues. There is a warning in the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. The author states that if a Nice Guy works on himself, it may actually kill the marriage sooner. I'm afraid we're heading down that path.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> D'oh! I felt like I was a doormat during my Nice Guy days. I would take a dive and/or walk on eggshells to keep the peace and/or soothe her. I'm sorry if that word made you sad. When I think back on how I was for years...it makes me furious. I am very critical of that guy, but luckily I kicked his azz and he's gone for good.


Nah, the word didn't make me sad, the realization of it did. I guess I've just never perceived myself as a doormat. I'm pretty good at standing up for myself outside of my marriage. In reading the "doormat" descriptions though I saw a lot of things that mirrored my behaviors within my marriage. Eye-opening.



thunderstruck said:


> Yes, the dynamics of our relationship have changed a lot over the past few years. Some good...some bad. She likes some of the new me...more direct, more confident, more leading the family, more take no shyte from anybody. At the same, I think it scares her and raises her anxiety issues. There is a warning in the No More Mr. Nice Guy book. The author states that if a Nice Guy works on himself, it may actually kill the marriage sooner. I'm afraid we're heading down that path.


I can completely see this. There have been points throughout our marriage (looking back), where I was more focused on me than on him. During those times things were the roughest in our marriage. I'm seeing now why that happened. I was naive though, and rather than continue on with working on myself, I slipped back into the doormat status quo, because that was what seemed to keep the peace. I'm moving back into a self-focus mode again, and recognizing the past patterns, and being aware of the doormatty attributes that I need to overcome, i'm guessing I'll have a battle of wills on my hands. Knowledge is power though, right?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

First time I have ever posted...

I have lurked for over two years while this stuff happened to me. Sounds exactly the same. I was in a 23 year marriage, and it was mostly VERY happy. I suspect my ex wife has BPD as well.

I eventually learned that she had been in a EA and PA with a co-worker, and an EA with my lifelong friend. Later, after I left, she was working on an EA with my brother-in-law. LOL!

In hindsight I realize that there was nothing I could do. Not saying I don't have faults. Hope your sitution gets resolved peacefully. 

10 months after leaving and 6 months after my D was finalized, I am so happy to have found a decent woman to spend time with. It amazes me how much more enjoyable a stable woman is compared to a "BPD" type of spouse.

Hang tough and seek your validation from those that are safe to you. Work on yourself for your benefit.

Give it time, and let it unfold. It might just be her feelings of insecurity. The worst case scenario is not the end of *your* happiness.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

I have a question. I don't have this type of situation, but I'm wondering if any of you tried IC or MC or both? Not because any of you are doing something wrong. I was thinking it might help you learn how to deal with the accusations and if you can get the spouse to go, maybe find out what is the cause of them accusing.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I guess I've just never perceived myself as a doormat. I'm pretty good at standing up for myself outside of my marriage.


Same here. I've always been successful in my career b/c I stand up for myself. I took no shyte from anybody outside of my marriage. But...here I was, walking on eggshells for years around my 110 lbs wife. Why? So she wouldn't yell at me? :scratchhead: Stupid, stupid me.



StatusQuo said:


> I was naive though, and rather than continue on with working on myself, I slipped back into the doormat status quo, because that was what seemed to keep the peace. I'm moving back into a self-focus mode again, and recognizing the past patterns, and being aware of the doormatty attributes that I need to overcome, i'm guessing I'll have a battle of wills on my hands. Knowledge is power though, right?


Yes, knowledge is power. I'm not slipping back to keep the peace. Not going to happen...I'll divorce before choosing to return to the old me. Keep working on you. Keep getting YOU stronger, and you may see that he isn't worth your time.

I hope your H isn't a violent guy. As you work on yourself, he may try everything to put you back in your corner. I know my W did, but obviously it can be more scary in your situation. I only have to deal with her screaming and her little gnat punches now and then.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> I'm wondering if any of you tried IC or MC or both?


W refuses MC/IC. I started individual MC about a month ago.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

IC for me, hubby refuses C of any kind.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> I hope your H isn't a violent guy. As you work on yourself, he may try everything to put you back in your corner. I know my W did, but obviously it can be more scary in your situation. I only have to deal with her screaming and her little gnat punches now and then.


Not violent, as in he's never hit me and knows his sorry butt would be in jail if he did. He breaks things, throws tantrums, slams his fists on things, punches holes in the walls, stupid stuff like that... I'm a big girl, I can deal with that stupidity, but it terrifies the kiddos, hence I've tried to keep the peace and not do anything to antagonize him.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> IC for me, hubby refuses C of any kind.


Jeez, maybe our spouses are long lost twins?



StatusQuo said:


> Not violent, as in he's never hit me and knows his sorry butt would be in jail if he did. He breaks things, throws tantrums, slams his fists on things, punches holes in the walls, stupid stuff like that... I'm a big girl, I can deal with that stupidity, but it terrifies the kiddos, hence I've tried to keep the peace and not do anything to antagonize him.


Okay, that's scary as hell, so please choose your steps carefully. My dad was an abusive alcoholic who did the things you mentioned + would put his hands on my mom. Luckily, she divorced him when I was still a kid.


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## Hopefull363 (Feb 13, 2012)

Happy for you guys that you are helping yourselves. Sorry for you that you're going through this. Good luck to both of you.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

I would have no qualms about having him arrested if he EVER put his hands on me. I've made that VERY clear to him. It's never even come close to that. It used to scare me when he'd flip out, but it doesn't anymore. I expect it now... probably not a good thing. :scratchhead: Mostly I fear for the safety of my furniture.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Hopefull363 said:


> Happy for you guys that you are helping yourselves. Sorry for you that you're going through this. Good luck to both of you.


Thanks!


StatusQuo said:


> It used to scare me when he'd flip out, but it doesn't anymore. I expect it now... probably not a good thing. :scratchhead: Mostly I fear for the safety of my furniture.


That's probably his defense mechanism. I see it clearly now with my W. If I reply with logic and/or she just can't come up with something good to say, she just blows up into a tantrum. I guess it allows her to control the situation and get the last word in. Once she starts her act, I generally shut down and walk off. I refuse to go round and round like we used to. 

Does he blow up in front of the kids, and if so, how do you protect them?


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> That's probably his defense mechanism. I see it clearly now with my W. If I reply with logic and/or she just can't come up with something good to say, she just blows up into a tantrum. I guess it allows her to control the situation and get the last word in. Once she starts her act, I generally shut down and walk off. I refuse to go round and round like we used to.
> 
> Does he blow up in front of the kids, and if so, how do you protect them?


Exactly, he "flips", the conversation ends because I shut down. There's no point in trying to talk to him rationally when he gets like that. 

He flips out in front of the kids. Lately, because I know enough to not push his buttons, it's actually the kids that cause him to "flip". Not that they're being insanely naughty, just being kids, he gets angry, and BOOM! When I see it happening... see him escalating... I send them upstairs away from him. My daughter is 4, she's old enough and smart enough to understand logical discussion. When daddy gets like that I go upstairs and calm her down, and let her know that she's okay, and that it wasn't okay for him to act like that. The sad part is, she's responding that way now when she's upset about something. He sees HER acting like that as inappropriate, but doesn't understand (or at least I can't make him see) that HE's teaching her that. He blames it on kids she's around at daycare. The baby is too little to understand any of it... with the baby, I clear him out of the room, and soothe him after the fact. Most of the time my daughter is already working on soothing him when I get there.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Status - tough to read, since my childhood was like that. I hope that either you leave, or he gets treatment for his anger before the kids are impacted.

That's basically what I do with my kids when W rages. I send them to their rooms, and try to explain to them later that nobody should speak to them that way. If W is raging on me, I STFU and walk away. That's usually enough to shut her down.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

See why "doormat" is easier though? *sigh* Not right, but easier.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Psst... I'm talkin' to you in my accusation thread.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> See why "doormat" is easier though? *sigh* Not right, but easier.


In your case, yes, I see why you would go that route to protect yourself and the kids. I'm sorry. 

Don't let yourself rot away in this situation. Find little things to make yourself happy, and keep your mind/body/soul strong.


StatusQuo said:


> Psst... I'm talkin' to you in my accusation thread.


I hope you're talking about your chipmunk again.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

Lovemytruck said:


> First time I have ever posted...
> 
> I have lurked for over two years while this stuff happened to me. Sounds exactly the same. I was in a 23 year marriage, and it was mostly VERY happy. I suspect my ex wife has BPD as well.
> 
> ...


These were my thoughts too.

I dated a girl that was accuse me of cheating constantly. I just figured she was insecure and head over heels in love with me lol. 

But no, she was screwing every guy she could find this side of the Mississippi. All the accusations were just projections from her own cheating. 

Make sure she’s not the one cheating and if it is BPD make an exit plan because this will end in tears.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck - whilst I'm sober, I thought I'd check in... hope all is well!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> thunderstruck - whilst I'm sober, I thought I'd check in... hope all is well!


Nah, all sucks right about now. 

We had a busy weekend, so W ended up stressed. I figured she'd blow at some point. So...last night we were doing the deed, I turn her on her side...and she starts again - "Is this what you do to your girlfriend!" I know your pattern. When you get with a new girl, you try new things on me!" She then pulled away from me. 

I wasn't about to defend myself against this BS, so I just stood up and told her I wasn't going to listen to this, and that I was going to sleep. She asked me to come back and said she'd stop talking. I did, which was probably a mistake. I spoke with her about it this morning, she apologized and started crying. That works on me everytime, so I hugged her. We spoke a litttle more, she apologized more, and told me she'd do better.

I've heard that before. Anyway...just venting here. For the record, I've NEVER cheated on my W (20+ years) and we've done just about everything s*xual you can imagine. I'm not breaking new ground with the side-side position I put her in.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Vent away, my friend!

Again, I lack advice. Had a rough weekend myself, though no accusations of cheating, just the whole cold shoulder thing. Blah. 

Wish I was more help, or had some sort of insight to provide.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Maybe I should just stay away from the chipmunk for a while. 

Gotta laugh at this stuff, right?


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Maybe I should just stay away from the chipmunk for a while.
> 
> Gotta laugh at this stuff, right?


Seriously, it IS a chipmunk!! 

No doubt though, laugh or cry, and laughing is way more fun!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Seriously, it IS a chipmunk!!


We also have a furry friend at home, but saying that "I should just stay away from the guinea pig" isn't nearly as funny.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Very true!! Chipmunks are waayyy cooler!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Very true!! Chipmunks are waayyy cooler!


Yeah, and...

Dang. Trying to think up an innuendo to go with that, but drawing a blank.:scratchhead:


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah, not much to work with pertaining to chipmunks... :rofl:

Still, they make me smile!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I doubt this will change her thoughts, but I figured I'd give it a try. My words were true...this wasn't a game or BS by me. 

I brought her in our room, looked in her eyes and told her, "I love you. I have always been faithful to you, and I always will be. I will always be by your side to protect you and support you." She had a kind of surprised look on her face, then she smiled and thanked me. We hugged, and she thanked me again. So...I don't know, hopefully that sticks in her mind for a while.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

That is awesome! I hope it helps her realize what she has with you.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> That is awesome! I hope it helps her realize what she has with you.


Thanks. Sadly, I don't think her issues will allow her to realize that...until it's too late.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

I'll remain hopeful that she does realize. 

Since you've already done it once, I don't think it would hurt to continue to reaffirm that stuff for her over and over. MAKE it sink in.  I haven't read your whole story yet, so maybe I should do that before I give advice, eh? Not that I know what I'm talking about, or I wouldn't be here to begin with! :rofl:


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I'll remain hopeful that she does realize.
> 
> Since you've already done it once, I don't think it would hurt to continue to reaffirm that stuff for her over and over. MAKE it sink in.  I haven't read your whole story yet, so maybe I should do that before I give advice, eh? Not that I know what I'm talking about, or I wouldn't be here to begin with! :rofl:


I'll do that reaffirm thing. My intro thread is in my signature below...if you dare. It's not pretty.

Thanks for giving me advice from a wife's POV...please keep it coming. I wonder why I'm not getting any more help from other members on this thread?


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Thanks for giving me advice from a wife's POV...please keep it coming. I wonder why I'm not getting any more help from other members on this thread?


Cause I'm so awesome they don't feel they need to reply? :rofl:

Honestly, I'm not sure... I can't believe that we are the only two people on TAM that get accused of such things.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> I'll do that reaffirm thing. My intro thread is in my signature below...if you dare. It's not pretty.
> 
> Thanks for giving me advice from a wife's POV...please keep it coming. I wonder why I'm not getting any more help from other members on this thread?


I wish I could help. My wife's insecurities manifested themselves in other ways though. She always thought it was just a matter of time before I would pack my things and go.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

I have not read through this entire thread, and yes I'm from the crazies on the Social Spot, but have you stopped to consider that maybe SHE is cheating or has things to hide..........and that's why she's acting that way? :scratchhead:


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

joe kidd said:


> I wish I could help. My wife's insecurities manifested themselves in other ways though. She always thought it was just a matter of time before I would pack my things and go.


She'd be a FOOL to let you go, Joe!!!!!


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

southern wife said:


> She'd be a FOOL to let you go, Joe!!!!!


Ty. We were both very close to being fools.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

StatusQuo said:


> HAHA! Have you seen the way my thread has gone? Those crazy Social Spotters got ahold of it! No worries on hijacking.
> 
> I wish I had helpful info for you, but as you've seen, I'm a jean-wearing tramp myself.


Where is your thead? I didn't see it...


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

southern wife said:


> ...but have you stopped to consider that maybe SHE is cheating or has things to hide..........and that's why she's acting that way? :scratchhead:


Yes, I know that that is a possibility, and my gut burns when she ramps up the accusations. She got big into the FB thing a few years and started "catching up" with a couple of guys from the past. I saw things I didn't like, and laid down boundaries. I think she got the message that I have zero tolerance for that BS, or maybe she just got better at hiding things.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> Yes, I know that that is a possibility, and my gut burns when she ramps up the accusations. She got big into the FB thing a few years and started "catching up" with a couple of guys from the past. I saw things I didn't like, and laid down boundaries. I think she got the message that I have zero tolerance for that BS, or maybe she just got better at hiding things.


Could have............might want to "ramp up" your investigations.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Yes, I know that that is a possibility, and my gut burns when she ramps up the accusations. She got big into the FB thing a few years and started "catching up" with a couple of guys from the past. I saw things I didn't like, and laid down boundaries. I think she got the message that I have zero tolerance for that BS, or maybe she just got better at hiding things.


I just read through your other thread, and responded there, but I think the FB things and whatever else may have happened between her and other men, may be your reason for the accusations.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

southern wife said:


> Where is your thead? I didn't see it...


Crazy a$$ accusations

^^ Right there SW  Beware, it went "social".


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I just read through your other thread, and responded there, but I think the FB things and whatever else may have happened between her and other men, may be your reason for the accusations.


Could be. I saw a few conversations b/w her and her best gf, and she acted shocked that these guys were coming on to her. Could be all BS, but from other stuff she wrote, I think she was speaking freely/truthfully...secure that I wasn't reading any of it. 

Maybe in her mind, if these guys ("like brothers" to her ) who were supposedly happily married, were coming on to her and making comments about her azz...I must be doing the same. Or...she could be doing half the guys in town, and I just haven't figured it out yet. Nothing would shock me at this point.


southern wife said:


> Could have............might want to "ramp up" your investigations.


Maybe I should go back to some low-level investigations. I quit a year or so ago...just decided that I didn't want to live that way...multiple snooping techniques to track all the time.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

StatusQuo said:


> Crazy a$$ accusations
> 
> ^^ Right there SW  Beware, it went "social".


Were you really called a tramp for wearing jeans? ( going through mental files to see if I said something along those lines to pidge)


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

StatusQuo said:


> Crazy a$$ accusations
> 
> ^^ Right there SW  Beware, it went "social".


Well, you know me...I'm a 'social' kind of gal! 



Thanks!


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Were you really called a tramp for wearing jeans? ( going through mental files to see if I said something along those lines to pidge)


Dead serious. He accused me of not going to work and going to meet up with someone else because I wore jeans on a *gasp* Wednesday. (now stop threadjacking!  )


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> I just read through your other thread, and responded there, but I think the FB things and whatever else may have happened between her and other men, may be your reason for the accusations.


I have no doubt that that plays a part.

This is the kind of BS you end up dealing with when you stay in a marriage just for the kids...when you know that the marriage is basically dead.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Maybe in her mind, if these guys ("like brothers" to her ) who were supposedly happily married, were coming on to her and making comments about her azz...I must be doing the same. Or...she could be doing half the guys in town, and I just haven't figured it out yet. Nothing would shock me at this point.


Maybe she was shocked that they were hitting on her, but she didn't stop them either... I don't know, thunder, I hate throwing out these ideas because I don't know her.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> This is the kind of BS you end up dealing with when you stay in a marriage just for the kids...when you know that the marriage is basically dead.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> Maybe she was shocked that they were hitting on her, but she didn't stop them either... I don't know, thunder, I hate throwing out these ideas because I don't know her.


No, she didn't stop them, and that's one of the things that pizzed me off. She craves male attention, really craves it. Would she take it to an EA/PA? I don't know. She might not intend to, but if the guy is a player (hook her in with words, and then demand s*x to keep up the chats), I could see her falling for that crap. When I confronted on the 2nd guy, she gave me the standard lines of "We were just joking. We didn't do anything wrong." She may be that naive, or she may know exactly what she's doing.

No, feel free to throw out any ideas you have. I'm not here to have my hand held. I come here to get my azz kicked, so give me the brutal truth as you see it.

And tell me more about your chipmunk. I don't want this thread to get too dark.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Why tell you about my chipmunk when I can show you my chipmunk?!?!? 

This is Nutty, he lives at my in-law's camp. We go there on the weekends, and I've tamed him to be my little friend. Best pet ever, he lives outside, and if you feed him peanuts he loves you unconditionally... okay, maybe it's conditional love, as he only likes me when I give him food.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

In either case the look on her face when or if you do leave her will be priceless. Not really the kind of focused attention she was hoping for though.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

From what I've surmised of your situation...I think there are a number of issues at play here.

A part of her genuinely believes you may be cheating (though most of her doesn't—I think)

A part of her “_gets off_” on hurting you with these barbs 

(most likely because of a deep, intense *resentment*...that simply _can't bear_ to stay buried...and rises to her consciousness the instant she starts feeling in any way positive towards you)

She also, no doubt, gets a perverse satisfaction in hurting her _*own self*_ with a lot of the things she says 

Self-pity is as intoxicating as any other drug...and like a drug, brings far more pain than pleasure...of course it's completely useless and self-defeating if one wants to *move forward in life*...but very rewarding if one *wishes to remain stuck*

I'm sure your wife has a strong unconscious motivation to resist any conscious thoughts or desires she has to change or make things better...this misapplied mental protection "feels/fears" that attempting change will utterly overwhelm her coping capabilities...

Moreover, with this particular attack....because she's accusing *YOU* of hurting *HER*...the hurt *she* causes *you* (which is very real I'm sure)...is sort of allowed to be nullified in her mind...whereas if she were to flatly call you “a moron” ...the remorse,and self-awareness of wrong-doing would come far more readily.

I can best liken this to my...erm...“complicated” relationship with my father..There have been times during a fight where I'd throw out something like, “You hate me...you've always hated me. You wish I was never born.”....

or you know?...whatever other lovely and melodramatic pronouncement I'd thought up...

I'm sure this sort of stuff hurt him keenly...of course I never thought about that in the moment..and I never really felt sorry for doing it afterward...because I was very focused on the fact that *HE* should have of felt sorry for *ME *(and the fact that *he* had *ALLOWED *me to believe such painful things) 

We are wonderfully self-involved creatures... 


Anyway...I don't know if rational approaches are going to work here. And I don't think it would be productive to wonder what the root cause of this accusation is; there's no one thing. 

I also don't know how worthwhile it'd be for you to look to end this specific behavior itself.

This is merely one symptom of a marriage mired in the conflicting sentiments of two very conflicted people.

I found these two things you posted poignantly indicative of this:

*Earlier you wrote:*

_“My words were true...this wasn't a game or BS by me.*

I brought her in our room, looked in her eyes and told her, "I love you. I have always been faithful to you, and I always will be. I will always be by your side to protect you and support you." She had a kind of surprised look on her face, then she smiled and thanked me. We hugged, and she thanked me again. So...I don't know, hopefully that sticks in her mind for a while. “_


*Then later on: *


_“This is the kind of BS you end up dealing with when you stay in a marriage just for the kids...when you know that the marriage is basically dead.”_


I have no doubt that there is perfect honesty in all of these seemingly incompatible sentiments: 

You love her. You will always be by her side. You stay in a marriage just for the kids. You know that your marriage is basically dead.

Do you ever marvel at the level of disparate feeling your own human heart..mind...or whatever is capable of?

It's worth pondering.

In my case: I know I love my father and I know I hate my father too. The hate's often easier for me to feel...but if I'm really honest I know that there's love there too. 

How is this even possible? I don't know. But it is. 

Does this sort of contention make a our relationship easy and conflict-free? 

Oh. Hell. No.

For some reason...it makes everything nastier, more vicious...I think I'd be kinder to someone I merely hated


I have no doubt that your wife is a bundle of contradictory feelings too.

And this is the push/pull dynamic the permeates all of your interactions.


A part of her hates you because she's dependent upon you...a part fears that she'll lose her “comfortable life” if she pushes your too far...and a part of her really wishes that this could be a “happy marriage”...and that she could “be normal”...and not have to live with such swirling, seething, unpredictable anger.

A part of you wants to be able to love her like you used to, a part of you even loves/pities her as the little lost girl *she is now*, a part of you hates that her mental instability/threats hold you hostage this marriage and wishes you could find a way out that wouldn't "trip" her (or even better--have her find it for you--by cheating on you)...and then, on a good day with her, I'm sure a part of you clings to the hope that you can still make this work somehow.

While the reality is that this marriage is very likely going to be a tumultuous mess for its duration...it can probably be improved yet.

And to that end, I think you should consider this:

You're going to run up against a wall when using the NMMNG stuff with her. 

This philosophy will to take you to some level of _functional interaction_ with her...better than what you had before...but her disease will make her incapable of submitting to it to the same extent a _“more normal” _women might...your stability and calm, will frustrate her instability (rather than spurring her to seek her own stability...or to make similar positive changes in herself)...and like self-pity, this resistance will operate on an largely unconscious level

(i.e. while you may reign her in somewhat, the crazy part of her brain can never really be "made better" or tamed by your application of NMMNG philosophies)

And obviously, nothing can make it entirely better...but taking a cue from her response to what you (very movingly) professed in your bedroom (you saw that touched her clearly). I think you should look into adding *Compassion *to your toolbox...

If you can imagine the way a Buddhist monk would react to her tantrums and negativity: detachment...love...pity...and a real desire for her underlying pain...(the pain that engenders her constant spews of vitriol)...to be relieved...

So, in this idealized conception...your ears wouldn't catch on any of the personal attacks...your anger wouldn't be baited at all...you'd simply be looking down from above...and see it for the piteous self-torment it really is 

(far, far easier said than done I admit...but you probably have some sense of this feeling in those moments where you see her as a rather helpless and hapless *broken little girl*...somehow with children and animals...we recognize an _"inherent innocence" _to even their negative actions...alas, it's harder for us to cultivate this feeling towards fellow adults...especially those with daggers for tongues...but it's the level to which we should aspire...because it's the level that offers the most peace for everyone involved...it's no cure all...but I do think these ugly mental demons are better comforted, and calmed by a response of compassion than anything else)

This concept of "loving compassion" is distinct from NMMNG and ultimately goes further than just “_keeping your cool_”...which is, at its heart a combative approach...where the _"way to win"_ is to not let your wife _“get the best of you emotionally”_...

With perfectly practiced compassion you'd be above the fray altogether...and I think this could take your IM stuff to another level...so that “personal detachment” evolves into something fused with a bit more of our “higher nature” 

I'd recommend any books by the Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh...he's the "real deal"...and (imo) probably the wisest person on the planet (all of his books are lovely: they're comforting, resonate with a truth we often forget, and tend to inspire one to be "the better man").....in your case I'd recommend specifically “You Are Here” and “True Love”

All that said, we aren't Buddhist monks, and we don't live in monasteries with other peace-seeking monks....and there will be times when "Go F yourself" will be the only approach possible...I MORE THAN get that

And actually, I don't even really see this idea as a specific approach or tool for the toolbox...it's more like something to _“color”_ your personal betterment work with...a philosophy to digest, that will hopefully elevate you further

Your situation really kills me 

You've really embraced and committed to improving yourself. You seem to have a good read on your wife's underlying motivations and behaviors as well as your own.

I'm sure you can see how the NMMNG stuff, while solid, can be misinterpreted by some...

And "Mr. Nice-Guy" is replaced by "Mr. Immature and Petty Guy"

You seem to have a very good handle on knowing the difference...striving not to pick petty battles...I find that very admirable

If your spouse was able meet you a little closer towards half-way, I think you would've met with very good results.

Still, for your wife's sake...I don't think she could've managed with a lesser husband and his (potentially) lesser level of understanding/"people-reading" skills...in fact, it probably would've been disastrous for her

(I don't think all of her issues arose from you being a Mr. Nice-Guy either, I think some of this was inevitably going to be triggered as she got older, and she really lucked out with having you for a husband--so I hope you can at least appreciate this in yourself, even if she can't (some part of her probably does too))

I don't really believe that "everything happens for reason"...but I do believe that Newton's Third Law has wide-sweeping applications.

Out of all the men who read and attempt to apply the NMMNG philosophy, I find it interesting that your wife seems to have been given the exact husband she needed...

It wouldn't surprise me if you too, ultimately get something worthwhile out of this marriage and its exhausting emotional tumults...something that informs your own individual life journey and experience in a meaningful way...

If you consider that this relationship has certainly made good use of your: uniquely sympathetic and empathetic disposition, your intelligence and conscientiousness, and your strong code of "morality in marriage/family life" forged from the experiences (and pain) of your own childhood...


And then consider this quote from Joseph Campbell:

_"What each must seek in his life never was on land or sea. It is something out of his own unique potentiality for experience, something that never has been and never could have been experienced by anyone else."_

The potential for a "maximum experience" of life certainly seems to be there for you...although the moment when you actually feel 'fortunate' for having undergone all of these trials may be several years ahead still...

Admittedly, this "poetic fluff" isn't nearly as comforting as the idea of a harmonious family-life without so much conflict...BUT...since you don't have that...the amount of "positive" you'll derive from these unenviable years and this difficult marriage will to a large extent depend on your willingness and ability to seek it and to see it...

Right. Well..here ends my “philosophical” attempt at the hand-holding and words of comfort you expressly stated you DIDN'T come here for...I felt compelled to take a stab...hope that wasn't too rambling

*Sigh* And here also ends my BIBLE-LENGTH post...yikes


In any event, I hope your life and your household become more peaceful soon

Best of Luck


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

IndiaInk said:


> Right. Well..here ends my “philosophical” attempt at the hand-holding and words of comfort you expressly stated you DIDN'T come here for...I felt compelled to take a stab...hope that wasn't too rambling


Holy freakin hell. How did you manage to get inside my brain? I'm floored after reading that epic post. Let me read it a few times before attempting to come up with a good reply.:toast:


Runs like Dog said:


> In either case the look on her face when or if you do leave her will be priceless. Not really the kind of focused attention she was hoping for though.


I saw that look about a year ago when I told her that I wanted a D. She threatened suicide, and since she has two family members who have done that, I took it serious. I didn't know what to do, so I backed down. After reading a few similar threads at TAM recently, I told my W that the next time she threatens harm to herself, me or the kids, I'm calling 911 and she can spend a few nights getting evaluated.


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

IndiaInk just nailed it. This is one of the most insightful posts I have read on dealing with a BPD wife. 

The broken girl view is priceless.

The hard part is deciding if this is what you want in a marriage.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Look at the journey as a way to improve your self. 

She may sink to some bad behavior as she tries to figure out what is going on in her head. Stay true to your core values and remember that her anger outbursts toward you are a reaction to her sense of being inadequate. 

The sad reality is that you can't always fix what is broken. Don't blame yourself for that.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Now I'm sitting here FN pizzed. Over the past few weeks I've had 3 family members come down with pretty serious health issues, so I've been texting more...to family. This has really pizzed off my W, who runs over and demands to know who I'm writing to. My aunt just texted me out of the blue and asked me if something was wrong in my marriage, and if my W was jealous. After I asked what she meant, she told me that a week ago my W texted her a few mins after I texted her (my aunt) and asked her if I had indeed just texted her. If that didn't make sense, basically my W used my aunt to try to verify who I was texting. 

I'm not going to confront my W on it, b/c I don't want my aunt dragged into this. I just told my aunt to be careful about sharing family business with my W and that her intentions are not always good. I also told her that yes, my W is jealous, so keep that in mind in her conversations.

Again, I have never done a thing inappropriate in my 20 year marriage. I don't know...maybe I just need to ignore this BS from her.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Oh boy.  I don't blame you for being upset, I'd be fuming too. I'd call your wife out on it. Let her know that it's not okay, and that dragging other family members into her delusion is not acceptable. You've already firmly told her that you are, and always have been faithful, reiterate that, and tell her that by asking your aunt about your text she's all but telling them that you are cheating on her/untrusted by her. Maybe she's not aware of the can of worms that she's opening?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

thunderstruck,

Wish there was an easy solution. I this is so eerily similar to my life a couple of years ago. I tried several approaches including attempts to be understanding, I tried to establish boundries, I tried to ignored it, and the relationship still ended ugly. 

Your behavior is NOT the cause of the problem for her. She is looking for justification, projecting guilt, and blaming you for her insecurities. There might not be anything that you can do to make it better.

Being in your dark place sucks. Breath deeply, and enjoy anything positive along the way. It will unfold. 

When I was there I told my then wife that my goal was to be happily married, to her or someone else. For me it is now a goal that is in sight...with someone else.

Best wishes Bro.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My replies are in bold.

II: A part of her genuinely believes you may be cheating (though most of her doesn't—I think)
A part of her “gets off” on hurting you with these barbs 
(most likely because of a deep, intense resentment...that simply can't bear to stay buried...and rises to her consciousness the instant she starts feeling in any way positive towards you)
*TS: I've tried logic - "If you actually think I'm cheating, why would you allow me to do this without protection?" No answer from her on that. Most men (family + bf's) have abandoned her (multiple suicides) and/or cheated, so maybe I'm paying the price for that.*

II: Self-pity is as intoxicating as any other drug...and like a drug, brings far more pain than pleasure...of course it's completely useless and self-defeating if one wants to move forward in life...but very rewarding if one wishes to remain stuck
*TS: And she seems determined to stay stuck.*

II: I'm sure your wife has a strong unconscious motivation to resist any conscious thoughts or desires she has to change or make things better...this misapplied mental protection "feels/fears" that attempting change will utterly overwhelm her coping capabilities...
*TS: I have a hard time understanding why someone would think that way. I guess if you keep pushing loved ones away, they can never hurt you*.

II: I can best liken this to my...erm...“complicated” relationship with my father..There have been times during a fight where I'd throw out something like, “You hate me...you've always hated me. You wish I was never born.”....
or you know?...whatever other lovely and melodramatic pronouncement I'd thought up...
*TS: She has a thing that's popped up over the past couple of years. She'll blurt the most hateful/personal thing she can think of. When my jaw hits the ground, and I walk away, she races behind saying, "I was only trying to get your attention! I didn't meant it."*

II: I'm sure this sort of stuff hurt him keenly...of course I never thought about that in the moment..and I never really felt sorry for doing it afterward...because I was very focused on the fact that HE should have of felt sorry for ME (and the fact that he had ALLOWED me to believe such painful things) 
*TS: Interesting that you didn't feel sorry afterward, but it may explain my wife's behavior. It does hurt me at times, but then I remember that I'm basically dealing with a flawed little girl. It helps me to move past*.

II: Anyway...I don't know if rational approaches are going to work here. And I don't think it would be productive to wonder what the root cause of this accusation is; there's no one thing. 
I also don't know how worthwhile it'd be for you to look to end this specific behavior itself.
*TS: I find that the normal rules don't apply when it comes to dealing with her*.

II: I found these two things you posted poignantly indicative of this:
I have no doubt that there is perfect honesty in all of these seemingly incompatible sentiments: 
You love her. You will always be by her side. You stay in a marriage just for the kids. You know that your marriage is basically dead.
Do you ever marvel at the level of disparate feeling your own human heart..mind...or whatever is capable of?
*TS: Yes, it's a real FN disaster here. Seeing my two quotes near other, as you pasted them, shows my conflict. I do love her, and have a slim hope that we can make this work. Still, I'd be a fool to not see reality, and to not prepare myself for this ending...and day*.

II: A part of her hates you because she's dependent upon you...a part fears that she'll lose her “comfortable life” if she pushes your too far...and a part of her really wishes that this could be a “happy marriage”...and that she could “be normal”...and not have to live with such swirling, seething, unpredictable anger.
*TS: All true*.

II: A part of you wants to be able to love her like you used to, a part of you even loves/pities her as the little lost girl she is now, a part of you hates that her mental instability/threats hold you hostage this marriage and wishes you could find a way out that wouldn't "trip" her (or even better--have her find it for you--by cheating on you)...and then, on a good day with her, I'm sure a part of you clings to the hope that you can still make this work somehow.
*TS: All true as well. I have thought, at times, that I would like to find out that she's had a PA, to knock me off the fence. I know that sounds F'd up, but it's the truth*.

II: You're going to run up against a wall when using the NMMNG stuff with her. 
This philosophy will to take you to some level of functional interaction with her...better than what you had before...but her disease will make her incapable of submitting to it to the same extent a “more normal” women might...your stability and calm, will frustrate her instability (rather than spurring her to seek her own stability...or to make similar positive changes in herself)...and like self-pity, this resistance will operate on an largely unconscious level
(i.e. while you may reign her in somewhat, the crazy part of her brain can never really be "made better" or tamed by your application of NMMNG philosophies)
*TS: How the F can you be so dead-on with all of this? The NMMNG author clearly states that applying his principles may doom your marriage. I blew that off when I first read it, but he's right...in my case*. 

II: And obviously, nothing can make it entirely better...but taking a cue from her response to what you (very movingly) professed in your bedroom (you saw that touched her clearly). I think you should look into adding Compassion to your toolbox...
If you can imagine the way a Buddhist monk would react to her tantrums and negativity: detachment...love...pity...and a real desire for her underlying pain...(the pain that engenders her constant spews of vitriol)...to be relieved...
*TS: I have added compassion to the toolbox, and it has helped. I've also been reading Buddhist books...helps as well*.

II: So, in this idealized conception...your ears wouldn't catch on any of the personal attacks...your anger wouldn't be baited at all...you'd simply be looking down from above...and see it for the piteous self-torment it really is 
*TS: I still slip, but I'm getting closer to that mindset all the time. I'm at my best when I see her as a damaged little girl. I slip when things get good between us, and I think I'm married to an emotionally healthy woman. That's about the time that she flies off the rails*.

II: I'd recommend any books by the Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh...
*TS: Will do. Thanks*.

II: All that said, we aren't Buddhist monks, and we don't live in monasteries with other peace-seeking monks....and there will be times when "Go F yourself" will be the only approach possible...I MORE THAN get that
*TS: I don't like doing that, and haven't in a while. I did it a few times before, and I think she sees the look in my eye now that tells her she's pushing too far, and I might have to tell her to go...*

II: Your situation really kills me 
*TS: Yeah, try living it. *

II: I'm sure you can see how the NMMNG stuff, while solid, can be misinterpreted by some...
And "Mr. Nice-Guy" is replaced by "Mr. Immature and Petty Guy"
*TS: Yes, without a doubt. I've devoured similar books, and I've taken a bit of good from each. I think I "overcorrected" when I first put NMMNG principles into play. I had a real "don't eff with me" attitude for a few months after growing my sack back. That was wrong*. 

II: You seem to have a very good handle on knowing the difference...striving not to pick petty battles...I find that very admirable
*TS: Thanks. It's been a long journey over the past 3+ years. Lots of missteps and correcting*.

II: If your spouse was able meet you a little closer towards half-way, I think you would've met with very good results.
Still, for your wife's sake...I don't think she could've managed with a lesser husband and his (potentially) lesser level of understanding/"people-reading" skills...in fact, it probably would've been disastrous for her
*TS: Well...that nightmare you described was us 5+ years ago. She kept slipping into a darker place, and I was in Nice Guy mode. Things were beyond shytty for about a year. That's when I woke up one day and went on a mission to "fix" my marriage. I quickly learned that I could only fix me, and worked hard (NMMNG and other resources like that) to do that*.

II: (I don't think all of her issues arose from you being a Mr. Nice-Guy either, I think some of this was inevitably going to be triggered as she got older, and she really lucked out with having you for a husband--so I hope you can at least appreciate this in yourself, even if she can't (some part of her probably does too))
*TS: Thanks, I realize that now. It's been a journey. I started out a few years ago thinking I was F'd up, and that had to be the problem in the marriage. I now realize the things you said above. I think she sees that and appreciates it, but she's conflicted. For whatever reason, she wants and doesn't want the marriage/me. I don't know, I think she resents my new strength/confidence in some way*? 

II: Out of all the men who read and attempt to apply the NMMNG philosophy, I find it interesting that your wife seems to have been given the exact husband she needed...
*TS: Interesting line there. In conversations in which she's furious, she has blurted out that her problem with me NOW goes back 5+ years to when I was in Nice Guy mode. She doesn't know about NMMNG, but I can tell that's what she means. She is just full of resentment over that, and she says she can't get past it. I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say that I think I'm a great dad, a good husband and a good man. She's willing to throw all of that in the trash, for what? I don't know. Maybe she's waiting on some Eat, Pray, Love fantasy guy to come sweep her off her feet*. 

II: It wouldn't surprise me if you too, ultimately get something worthwhile out of this marriage and its exhausting emotional tumults...something that informs your own individual life journey and experience in a meaningful way...
*TS: It already has. As described in the NMMNG book, this has been a gift. The shyte marriage forced me to pull my head out of my azz, grow up, and become the man I am today. It also taught me what to avoid in a future partner. I will run like hell when I see certain things*.

II: The potential for a "maximum experience" of life certainly seems to be there for you...although the moment when you actually feel 'fortunate' for having undergone all of these trials may be several years ahead still...
*TS: As stated above, I already feel some of that*.

II: Right. Well..here ends my “philosophical” attempt at the hand-holding and words of comfort you expressly stated you DIDN'T come here for...I felt compelled to take a stab...hope that wasn't too rambling
*TS: Thank you so much for taking the time to share your thoughts.*


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

Lovemytruck said:


> Your behavior is NOT the cause of the problem for her. She is looking for justification, projecting guilt, and blaming you for her insecurities. There might not be anything that you can do to make it better.
> 
> Best wishes Bro.


Thanks. :toast:

It took me a long time to realize that what you said above is true.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> *TS: All true as well. I have thought, at times, that I would like to find out that she's had a PA, to knock me off the fence. I know that sounds F'd up, but it's the truth*.


Well if that makes you F'd up, then I'm F'd up too.  I've thought the same thing about my situation. If only he did something to cross that "no looking back" line, and solidify my reasons for wanting out. I've even been so F'd up to think, "Maybe one of these days he'll hit me during one of his rages, and THEN I would have a 'real' reason to leave." F'd up mindset I have, but it's so hard when everything is based on my feelings about the way things should/shouldn't be, it would be so much easier if I had something concrete to hang my hat on.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

SQ - I hope it never comes to that for you. I'm sure you are doing this b/c you are a great mom and you're doing what's best for your babies. 

Stay strong.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

No worries, I'm tough!  GRRRRRR! <-- see tough!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> No worries, I'm tough!  GRRRRRR! <-- see tough!


You don't scare me. Work on it... war face - YouTube


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

LMAO! Well, fine then! I'll work on it... but way to take the air out of my sails!


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Well, thank-you for your positive feedback to my post, that made me happy.

( and I thought there was a chance you might just LOL at that monstrosity---I think that broke my word-count record)

But I "like" you as a poster, and didn't think it'd be a waste of time, largely because of your responses to these observations:




thunderstruck said:


> My replies are in bold.
> 
> II: A part of her hates you because she's dependent upon you...a part fears that she'll lose her “comfortable life” if she pushes your too far...and a part of her really wishes that this could be a “happy marriage”...and that she could “be normal”...and not have to live with such swirling, seething, unpredictable anger.
> *TS: All true*.
> ...


Unlike a lot of people, you don't need anyone to tell you this stuff, because you're already able to analyse your situation so well...

That's also why it's hard for me to think of anything helpful to offer you...short of telling you to just walk away from this frustrating marriage (which you're unable to do at this time)

Buddhism was the best I could come up with (glad you'd already looked into it)...because at its heart it's about trying to accept or even embrace *the way things are*...and when they're not very good...it's very hard to want to do that. (definitely look into that Nhat Hanh though...he's the best...I'd also imagine that his books would be good for your wife...granted, I don't know how receptive she'd be if you suggested them to her)

Really, your case is like a number of others on the forum...where my first thought is: _"the real problem here, is that the wrong spouse is on the board asking for answers and advice"_

I wish she wasn't so resistant to getting help, that would be a huge step forward, unfortunately I have a hard time getting _inside that mindset_ and thinking of something to help push her in that direction.

She seems to know that she has a problem controlling her rages...as she sometimes cries and apologizes later

So any guess as to where that aversion to getting help stems from? Do you think it's a pride thing? 

The other thing I thought to offer was: Being a SAHM probably does her more harm than good.

I actually think there's more mental illness now than in the past, simply because we have more "free time" to spin our mental wheels.

If we were all working brutal hours in a Victorian cotton mill...this temptation wouldn't exist.

Despite our fabulous modern life...so many people are very unhappy...America in particular, is a very heavily medicated nation...there's obviously some problem here.

She has a lot of neurotic energy that would probably be beneficially channeled into something where: 

1. she gets to run the show (feeling like we're in control makes us all happier) 

2. She's doing something that quickly yields positive results

3. She gets praise and appreciation for her contribution

4. There's little risk of failure

Now, it's hard to think of how to "manufacture" these conditions...

Certainly, 9 to 5 corporate jobs don't necessarily yield instant (or any) gratification and you're going to have to answer to someone above you...

Not all volunteering makes you feel like you're making a impact either (I remember doing a lot of tedious filing as a hospital volunteer--though children's hospitals usually have more opportunities to feel like you're doing something worthwhile--entertaining/playing games with kids hooked up to a dialysis machine for hours? I've done that--that was awesome)

Some things I thought of: 

Working with some sort of animal rescue/foster group: I have no experience myself but...I'm sure when you place a dog with a good family...and you make that family happy...you're made happy too

Also, I once taught basic computer skills at a homeless shelter in the morning and that was one of the most meaningful volunteer experiences I had...it would make me happy the rest of the day.

Because I was the leader, the positive results were immediate and I felt very appreciated by the people. 

So if she has a degree that would let her teach a life skill (finance, business, etc) to some disadvantaged group (at-risk youth, the homeless, battered women)...that might help her.

I'm sure there are a dozen more things things I'm just not thinking of...

But anyway, my main point is just: everyday she spends being alone with her self-focused, unhappy thoughts churning endlessly...the worse that is for all of you.

Obviously, if it was really constructive for her...she'd be in a better mood when you got home everyday after work.

Well...that's all I got right now...wish I had more...or maybe a magic wand

Sorry about your latest frustration...hope this day goes better!


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

IndiaInk, just have to say... I'm quite certain that you are the most insightful poster that I have seen on this board!


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

StatusQuo said:


> IndiaInk, just have to say... I'm quite certain that you are the most insightful poster that I have seen on this board!


Thank-you so much StatusQuo!!!...that's a lovely compliment.

All I can say is, if I have any "wisdom" to offer...it's not because I was born "wise"...I learned the hard way


(and unfortunately...I'm still having to learn it (or relearn it)...and probably will be forever)

P.S. Your chipmunk's so adorable...I wish we had them where I live


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

My replies are in bold...

I wish she wasn't so resistant to getting help, that would be a huge step forward, unfortunately I have a hard time getting inside that mindset and thinking of something to help push her in that direction.
*I've tried several things. Really, the only card I think I have left to play would be to file on her. Not ready for that yet.*

She seems to know that she has a problem controlling her rages...as she sometimes cries and apologizes later
*Yes, she knows it, acknowledges it, and apologizes. Still, no attempt to make anything better*.

So any guess as to where that aversion to getting help stems from? Do you think it's a pride thing? 
*I wish I knew. Could be pride. Maybe she fears hearing/facing the awful truth. She's said something along these lines for illnesses. She'll say, "I probably have ____ cancer." I'll reply, "Go get checked." She'll reply that she'd just rather not know. When I mentioned that I was going to go to individual MC since she won't go, she blew up and commanded me to not go - "I don't want you to go tell somebody about me!" I started going about a month ago, but don't plan on telling her*. 

The other thing I thought to offer was: Being a SAHM probably does her more harm than good.
I actually think there's more mental illness now than in the past, simply because we have more "free time" to spin our mental wheels.
*Agree here. Too much time on her hands, which she sometimes fills by shopping + returning items. Kind of a part-time job for her*.

Working with some sort of animal rescue/foster group: I have no experience myself but...I'm sure when you place a dog with a good family...and you make that family happy...you're made happy too
*She does a bit of this, as well as volunteering at the kids' school, and I know it makes her feel good about herself*. 

Well...that's all I got right now...wish I had more...or maybe a magic wand
*Ha. I'd take that magic wand. I'm pretty much out of ideas, and at the end of my rope here. Thanks again for taking the time to write all of this. As my sig says, I'm here to get my azz kicked. You are doing that, in an indirect way. The wheels in my head are spinning*.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

India - I just bought Hanh's _You Are Here_ off Amazon. I'll report back after reading it. Thanks again for the suggestion.


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> India - I just bought Hanh's _You Are Here_ off Amazon. I'll report back after reading it. Thanks again for the suggestion.


Excellent!!

I think that book does the best job of encapsulating his whole philosophy. 

And please do report back. I'll be interested to know what you think.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

"And yes, my gut starts to tingle when she ramps up the accusations. I know that the guilty are quick to point the finger."

Maybe you should start looking in the direction!! It is called guilt!


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

ladybird said:


> Maybe you should start looking in the direction!! It is called guilt!


I will, in about a month, when the kids are back in school. I figure if anything is going on, she has it on the backburner while she's stuck with two kids all day. And...will ramp up her activities once she has tons of free time.

My gut feels useless in this case, since she's all over the place from day to day, and within the same day...happy, miserable, nice, wanting to fight, etc. It's FN maddening at times.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I received one of the books that IndiaInk suggested, and it had an immediate impact. My W saw it on a table, looked through it, and came up to me in another room. She unloaded with..."Why did you get that book? Do you know anybody in town who is a practicing Buddhist? Do you think you're a Buddhist now?" I replied that I learned about it at a website, I don't know any Buddhists in town, and at this point, I'm just reading Buddhist material. I've done this enough times to know where she was headed with the "Do you know any..." question.

She then looked angry and said, "Are you having an affair?" I kept it simple and used a neutral tone, "No. I am not." She went on about how I'm doing new things, someone must be putting these things in my head, and that I'm now "unpredictable." I can see where this is coming from, b/c I have made some radical changes as I've worked on myself over the past few years. I have tried to explain this to her over the years to ease her anxiety, but it doesn't work. We've had the "you're cheating!" conversation too many times, so I saw no need to get into a deep discussion. I answered all of her questions, and then I walked out of the room. 

On the book itself, I've read 20+ pages. So far, its' great, and I've remembered some of the author's words while communicating with my W over the weekend.


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

It's amazing to me how something so benign, as a book choice, a new song you like, etc., get the hackles raised. It's the same in my house. "How do you know THAT song??? Why are you reading THAT book??" 

I was on the deck reading this weekend (His Needs, Her Needs...) on my kindle. Hubby hadn't said a word to me all weekend. He came over to ask me what I was reading, not wanting to get into the fact that I was reading a marriage-self-help book (his parents were sitting there as well), I just told him I was reading a book. He got pissy and stomped off. I wasn't trying to upset him, but didn't feel it was prudent to talk about in mixed company.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

SQ - yes, I get the "Who told you about that band?" stuff as well. 

The next time he asks what you're reading with his parents nearby, shout out, "Married Man's S*x Life!"


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

MMSL!! :rofl: He'd assume it was erotica!


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## StatusQuo (Jun 4, 2012)

Or a guide on how to cheat with a married man... :rofl:


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## IndiaInk (Jun 13, 2012)

Wow.

I was hoping that she might read it herself.

So much for that...

Sorry.


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