# Did I call this right?



## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

I am a bit of a nervous dater after a few bad and hurtful experiences with online dating so I am a bit skittish with new dates and I'd love to get some unbiased feedback on something if anyone has a minute. I am really thinking in terms of the future because with this situation I am not sure if I over-reacted or if I did a good job being strong and following my gut instinct but I sometimes am not quite sure whether I am too harsh at times.

I met someone a few weeks ago online dating. When we first connected, he was away on business for a few weeks so we talked initially online. He seemed very keen from the first minute. We started out with a few texts and then an introductory phone-call, which ended up lasting for three hours. After that we started to video chat quite a lot, and ended up having some quite interesting conversations where I really liked the person he came across as. I don't normally do that and usually meet men early but I just really enjoyed talking to him.

He was very persistent with messaging me very frequently, and he called or messaged me several times a day actually. To be honest I found the level of contact excessive. He seemed to be acting like a boyfriend already and updating me on his movements over the day. There was texts every night and every morning when he woke and multiple video calls over the day including from his office between meetings. I mentioned this to him and he said that he was never normally like this, but something about me had him smiling every minute and he was jumping for the phone and just feeling so excited about me.

He didn't strike me as a player really, although I have been dead wrong about this before. However, he was very intense with me! Not only with the extremely high level of contact, but also with some of the things he said and did. For example, he had asked where I lived and when I told him the town, he'd mentioned later casually that he'd had a quick look at house prices in my area :surprise: He also sent me a photo of him outside Tiffany's saying "maybe next time?". I mentioned to him that I was finding it all a bit full-on and he said to me, "look, I am not normally like this but since I met you I have been smiling every minute and I don't see any point trying to hide it. I am sorry if this scares you, but I am really excited to see you in person and I am going to want to see a lot more of you and in many ways I feel like we are already in a relationship. This has never happened to me before but it's just how I feel". He also added me on LinkedIn, FB and other things and all of it seemed intense so I was wary.

I took a while to just mull over what he was saying and he did seem genuine, so I was approaching with caution but an open mind that he might just be a very sweet guy who had taken a shine to me. We did have some very interesting conversations which were quite meaningful to me and formed an initial connection mentally and I thought he came across as sincere, open and probably also extremely insecure in a lot of ways. He had mentioned that he rarely attached to women but when he did it was very serious and he'd become ill before from breakups and that if someone hurt him he walked away and deleted them out of his life as it was the only way he could get over it.

Anyway, I was trying not to judge too much, but I was definitely feeling quite warm towards him although less confident than he was that we were a match. I thought maybe he might be too weak a character for someone like me, but I also wanted to give him a chance because he had so many great qualities. 

I know that level of intensity can be a really bad sign, but if I am completely honest part of me really liked it because I am so accustomed to dating men in their 40s who are commitment phobic or who blow hot and cold and with him, the contact like clockwork and the open talk about how much he liked me just seemed maybe like it was exactly what I wanted to hear on some level. It's been a long time since I was in love or experienced a real relationship and even that brief illusion was kind of nice and I hope that doesn't make me sound terrible.

That said, I wanted to be careful so I explained to him before the first date that I had bad experiences from having sex too early and that no matter how well we got along when we met, sex was totally off the table for the first few weeks and he said that was no problem and he would be patient for as long as required and that the last thing he was interested in was something casual.

So he came home from the business trip, and we had the first date. He came to pick me up and I opened the door and he immediately started kissing me and hugging me and I was really shocked! We went out on this date (lunch date) and he left the car behind and we walked and the entire way (an easy hour long walk) and he was holding my hand, and re-holding it if I let go. He kept stopping to kiss me in the street and all that and I am not sure how I felt about it. It was partly nice and partly also just very fast and felt a bit like I'd have preferred less touching.

He came across, honestly, as someone with not much experience rather than a player at all though.

We enjoyed it though, and then he dropped me home and as his car keys were in my house I let him come inside and again, there was more kissing. At this point he started getting a bit sexual with me. His hands were slipping to my breasts or up the back of my skirt and I could feel his arousal pressing into me and several times during the kissing I had to say "stop". He did listen to me, but then kept going back and doing the same thing :/ Again, I wasn't sure if this was creepy or just a guy who was really a bit inexperienced with women and over-excited, but it made me feel uncomfortable and I'd have preferred if I hadn't felt like I was swatting off a bug!

So anyway, I asked him to leave (not in a bad way but just said it was 7pm and I had my child due home soon) and he hugged and kissed me and asked if he could see me again for another date and I said "yes" and we booked one for two days later and he said he'd call me before bed.

He left and I just felt something wasn't right. He'd been so intense in a mental / emotional sense and now also in a physical sense and I felt like half of me really liked that (passion, being swept of your feet) and the other half made me feel afraid that it wasn't sincere or more in love with being in love rather than actually having sincere feelings about me growing in a normal way. I thought about it for a while and told myself what I needed to watch for closely was consistency and that consistency over the next few weeks was going to be important because ongoing actions matter more than empty words.

Then for the first time ever he didn't call or message me that night, or the next morning. He literally called me every morning, but not that day. I got uncomfortable with that because it was such a big change, so I went to message him and noticed he was "online" already, which really puzzled me as messaging me was always the first thing he did and now he was evidently talking to someone else. 

I told myself it wasn't important and the day dragged by. By afternoon I had still heard nothing and it just didn't feel right, so I decided to log onto the dating site (actually my first time logging on since he and I had met) and I was surprised to see that (a) he was currently showing as online and (b) he had updated his profile photos during the time he had been so intensely romancing me and saying he'd never felt this way before.

I was just instantly really angry. The combination of his fairly full on physical advances when I'd explained I needed to move slow, with the change in contact suddenly after the first date, the updated pictures and the fact he was "online" just instantly gave me the willies and he seemed totally insincere to me on this basis. So later that day I broke it off with him with a simple text message saying I didn't feel it was quite a right match and didn't want to see him a second time.

He read the message but took several hours to reply (also unheard of) and I got back a cold message saying "oh ok, fine. good luck" and then he deleted me off everything and sent me a message to say he'd deleted my photos etc. and my number. This petty behavior combined with my anger, escalated into a conversation where I mentioned to him that he'd made me feel pressured physically when he'd promised not to do that, abruptly changed his contact habits after our first date and been logging onto a dating website with new photos and his response was the usual "I was sick last night, I was busy at work, I have done nothing wrong and you have upset me".

What really jarred me was that he finished the conversation by saying "maybe next time you date you should relax a bit", which seemed a really strange thing to say when he was the one who brought all the intensity and I was trying to pace him but it seemed at the very least disingenuous for a man to be saying "I hope it doesn't scare you but I feel like we're already in a relationship" and at the same time he is updating his profile photos on a dating website.

He also said something on the lines of me not being as pretty in person, which seemed petty, nasty and also odd seeing as we facetimed about 20 times and he must have had a pretty clear image of what I looked like. Along with the question of if he was disappointed by how I looked, why was he all over me???. I was really startled by how cold he became!

I came away from this situation honestly not really knowing what transpired here, whether I was paranoid and hurtful by accusing him or whether I was just dealing with an idiot of a guy.

Can anyone let me know?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Any jackass who can't show you even a modicum of respect on your first date and instead has to act like a damned dog in heat humping your leg is someone you don't waste any MORE of your time with.

The fool did all the 'pre-work' of bombing you with his lame texts telling you how attracted he is to you and how he "can't get you out of his mind," and spent time FaceTiming you, all in the hopes that it was enough to get him laid at the end of your first date. Because you didn't jump in the sack with him and all his lame 'pre-game' efforts failed, you suddenly became 'unattractive' and no longer worth his time once he saw you weren't going to fall for his pitiful 'charms.'

What a class A douche bag. Be glad you didn't become just another of the fools that might have fallen for his bull****.

You were smart to throw him back into the cesspool he crawled out of.


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## chronicallyfrustrated (Jul 21, 2017)

Honestly, it sounds like you dodged a bullet here, held your ground with healthy boundaries about your wants/needs/body, and probably learned something about yourself in the process. It seems like your lady-senses were on point from the beginning, perhaps the take away is to trust your gut instincts more often?

You may enjoy a book called Women Who Run With The Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Estes. Lots of pro feminine wiles psychology in there.

Good job!(?)
Kayla


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

your gut was right you dodged a bullet there.


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## vauxhall101 (Jul 23, 2017)

I agree, definitely seemed like you dodged a bullet. From your description, inexperienced or not, he doesn't sound dangerous or anything, but he does sound just a little bit creepy. 

Although why did you pursue having a conversation with him after he'd deleted you? Just leave it alone.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

My impression from your story was not that he was an idiot or a player. I think the most likely explanation is that this guy was an introvert trying to break out of his shell, who did not have as much dating experience than he may have let on. I'm even going to guess that every once in a while when you talked, or on your date, he came across as maybe even a little nerdy at times...? Men, especially introverts, aren't good at emotion. We're good at analyzing. And he was analyzing you because he liked you. The general intensity seemed like a turn off to you but on his end, it probably just means he doesn't have as much experience reacting to being emotionally/physically attracted to someone, and didn't know how to play it cool. The amount of communication he initiated likely meant he was genuinely happy to interact with you. Checking home prices in your area seems a little creepy, but he likely saw a future with you and this was an attempt at gauging your financial compatibility. The outburst at the end was probably a reaction to being caught off guard at your rejection (after having made the second date) and not having the experience to handle it correctly. So you probably broke his heart, but from your description above, you both probably weren't completely compatible in the long term anyway. Don't worry all that much. It sounds like he's already getting over it too...


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## Melrose8888 (Jan 1, 2017)

vauxhall101 said:


> I agree, definitely seemed like you dodged a bullet. From your description, inexperienced or not, he doesn't sound dangerous or anything, but he does sound just a little bit creepy.
> 
> Although why did you pursue having a conversation with him after he'd deleted you? Just leave it alone.


I fourth all of that - he was a player and well done for recognising it early. Gut feel rules!

I get the messaging afterwards, for me it's a combination of wanting to know what you can learn from the experience and secondly, and the one you really need to watch, is sunk cost. You wasted time and money on the ****head and you feel you at least deserve an answer. Hard to learn but often best to let it go in situations like this.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Being too intense at the start is a very strong sign of an issue, whether a PD, insecurity, clinginess, etc. Just, not a good sign. 

When someone frequently invades your personal space beyond your comfort level, don't be afraid to say no. 

I dated a man like him. In 2 weeks he was saying that maybe I was the woman he'd marry (oh, really? After 2 weeks...), he always called, waltzed into my FAMILY home unannounced (no knock/doorbell) and he came up to me while I was working. Found out he was a full blown narcissist and he flipped the love/hate switch on me in 5 seconds after I told him to back off. Just like your guy did. 

Agree with others - bullet dodged. NEXT!!


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Did you ever call it right!

It's okay that you initiated a conversation with him afterwards. His tone changed dramatically, and you wanted to know why. For however long, he made you feel special, and the second you called it off, he didn't put up a fight. You wanted to know what was up with that - perfectly reasonable, IMO.

A few of you might remember the Seinfeld episode about the 'bad breaker-upper'. That shows stories were all based on everyday mundane life, so clearly people like that actually exist! Be glad you didn't get a fork in the forehead 

Regardless, it's pretty obvious that he just wanted to get laid that night. To him, all the work he did and the attention he gave you should have culminated in that, according to him. I don't mean that he did all that work to get laid, just that he probably figured it was "time". When you rebuffed him, he probably took it personally (that's his problem), and he likely started moving on right then and there. He may very well have been solely focused on you during this time, but clearly, the instant you rebuffed his sexual advances, he was right back on the dating site.

My best guess is that he was not a player in the true sense of the word, but instead was overly excited that he got a date, know what I mean? He may very well have had good intentions with you (as in, actually wanted a relationship) but simply did not have the confidence to take it slow.

I'm willing to bet that he was fresh out of a long-term relationsip, or even married (apologies if this was mentioned) and he desperately misses the regular companionship and daily interactions. And sex, of course. Doesn't mean he only wanted to get laid, but that's part of a relationship. I think he wanted the whole ball of wax, sooner rather than later.

He'll do this a few more times until he either finds a woman who's buying what he's selling, or he's been told one too many times that he's moving far too quickly.

Right now, it sounds like he's overly focused on just finding a girlfriend, full stop.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

I'm not sure he was a player, but what you dodged, was probably worse, to be honest. that would have been oppressive.


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Some major narcissistic behaviors there and you are smart to have heeded your gut instinct.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I think he was really into you at first and was projecting/hoping that you felt the same way about him. Some guys build things up in their heads because they aren't good at reading body language and then get surprised when a woman doesn't feel the same way. When it becomes obvious to them they often feel rejected and don't know how to cope. If my guess was right then you did yourself a favor by breaking up with him.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, his failure to contact you as per his normal routine after your first date was him passive-aggressively punishing you for not having sex with him that night. Whether he's a creepy player, or just a guy who's really not experienced/mature enough to be in the adult dating world, he was obviously very excited about the notion of sex. Just because you'd said you wanted to take things slowly, doesn't mean he wasn't going to try to talk you out of that stance. He lacked either the will or the maturity to respect your stated boundaries. You're much better off without that sort of person in your life. 

But, you also made some mistakes. One, you didn't listen to your own intuition. Even before the first in-person meeting, you already had reservations about this guy. You should have enough confidence in yourself to listen to your gut. If you had, you likely wouldn't have kept communicating with him after he'd made you uncomfortable, and you wouldn't have gone out with him. Two, you had him pick you up from your home, which you apparently share with your child. As a matter of personal safety, you should probably meet strange men for the first time in safe, public, neutral locations. It's almost never a good idea to invite a strange man into your home, as it could potentially be dangerous for both yourself and your children. And, despite some rather ardent messages and phone calls, this man was - is - actually a complete stranger. And three, you didn't immediately enforce your own personal boundaries. You were uncomfortable with being held, grabbed, kissed, all afternoon by this guy. It was too much for you. But you didn't do anything to effectively stop him from continuing. You didn't end the date early, nor did you, apparently, strongly rebuff his physical advances. In fact, you invited him in at the end, and then had to make some vague excuse to put him off. Were you afraid of offending him, averse to a scene, afraid of him physically if he reacted badly, or is not rocking the boat so engrained in your being that you're willing to be victimized to avoid being thought "dramatic" or "crazy" or even just "rude"? 

Overall, you need to be much more confident in yourself, and much more definite about what your boundaries are and about maintaining them. Listen to your gut. Have the self-confidence to trust your intuition, to trust yourself. Have the self-confidence to set the boundaries that you want for yourself. Have the self-confidence to maintain your own boundaries, even in the face of potentially seeming discourteous to someone else. If you lack that brand of self-confidence, a good personal therapist can likely help you to develop it to the point that you're not willing to put up with foolishness like your experience with this guy.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Edo Edo said:


> My impression from your story was not that he was an idiot or a player. I think the most likely explanation is that this guy was an introvert trying to break out of his shell, who did not have as much dating experience than he may have let on. I'm even going to guess that every once in a while when you talked, or on your date, he came across as maybe even a little nerdy at times...? Men, especially introverts, aren't good at emotion. We're good at analyzing. And he was analyzing you because he liked you. The general intensity seemed like a turn off to you but on his end, it probably just means he doesn't have as much experience reacting to being emotionally/physically attracted to someone, and didn't know how to play it cool. The amount of communication he initiated likely meant he was genuinely happy to interact with you. Checking home prices in your area seems a little creepy, but he likely saw a future with you and this was an attempt at gauging your financial compatibility. The outburst at the end was probably a reaction to being caught off guard at your rejection (after having made the second date) and not having the experience to handle it correctly. So you probably broke his heart, but from your description above, you both probably weren't completely compatible in the long term anyway. Don't worry all that much. It sounds like he's already getting over it too...


Yes he was extremely nerdy, that is the number one word I'd use to describe him. He kept sending me selfies on his trip that were kind of cringy middle aged guy tourist ones and he admitted he was an introvert and really bad at emotion. He came across as really nerdy and maybe a bit socially inhibited. I actually found that cute though!

I think what upset me is that the behavior of turning so cold on me made me feel like he'd faked the entire liking process, and also a little bit paranoid about my looks because he criticised me on that in a nasty way and it made me feel so upset because I did actually really like him! If he'd been genuine, I'd have wanted to continue seeing him!

I guess I thought if I called him out on the behavior that he'd have reassured me if he was genuine, but he didn't, he attacked me!


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Melrose8888 said:


> I fourth all of that - he was a player and well done for recognising it early. Gut feel rules!
> 
> I get the messaging afterwards, for me it's a combination of wanting to know what you can learn from the experience and secondly, and the one you really need to watch, is sunk cost. You wasted time and money on the ****head and you feel you at least deserve an answer. Hard to learn but often best to let it go in situations like this.


Yes, thanks for understanding that. I did message afterwards but not to have a confrontation but because I was confused and upset and wanted to understand the behavior.

I can understand meeting face to face and feeling no chemistry but can't understand being all over the girl and booking a second date if you feel that way. I can understand being full on if you really like a girl but can't understand why you'd be updating your profile photo on a dating website if you felt that way. 

I know probably my gut worked well as the end, but am disappointed in myself that I'd become invested emotionally by his attention beforehand and by how much I believed he was genuinely just a nerdy guy who really liked me. I'd like to think I am getting better at this, but not sure!


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Rowan said:


> OP, his failure to contact you as per his normal routine after your first date was him passive-aggressively punishing you for not having sex with him that night. Whether he's a creepy player, or just a guy who's really not experienced/mature enough to be in the adult dating world, he was obviously very excited about the notion of sex. Just because you'd said you wanted to take things slowly, doesn't mean he wasn't going to try to talk you out of that stance. He lacked either the will or the maturity to respect your stated boundaries. You're much better off without that sort of person in your life.
> 
> But, you also made some mistakes. One, you didn't listen to your own intuition. Even before the first in-person meeting, you already had reservations about this guy. You should have enough confidence in yourself to listen to your gut. If you had, you likely wouldn't have kept communicating with him after he'd made you uncomfortable, and you wouldn't have gone out with him. Two, you had him pick you up from your home, which you apparently share with your child. As a matter of personal safety, you should probably meet strange men for the first time in safe, public, neutral locations. It's almost never a good idea to invite a strange man into your home, as it could potentially be dangerous for both yourself and your children. And, despite some rather ardent messages and phone calls, this man was - is - actually a complete stranger. And three, you didn't immediately enforce your own personal boundaries. You were uncomfortable with being held, grabbed, kissed, all afternoon by this guy. It was too much for you. But you didn't do anything to effectively stop him from continuing. You didn't end the date early, nor did you, apparently, strongly rebuff his physical advances. In fact, you invited him in at the end, and then had to make some vague excuse to put him off. Were you afraid of offending him, averse to a scene, afraid of him physically if he reacted badly, or is not rocking the boat so engrained in your being that you're willing to be victimized to avoid being thought "dramatic" or "crazy" or even just "rude"?
> 
> Overall, you need to be much more confident in yourself, and much more definite about what your boundaries are and about maintaining them. Listen to your gut. Have the self-confidence to trust your intuition, to trust yourself. Have the self-confidence to set the boundaries that you want for yourself. Have the self-confidence to maintain your own boundaries, even in the face of potentially seeming discourteous to someone else. If you lack that brand of self-confidence, a good personal therapist can likely help you to develop it to the point that you're not willing to put up with foolishness like your experience with this guy.


Thanks so much Rowan. I never considered that he'd be angry about me not having sex. 

To be honest, I have reservations about EVERY guy. They don't contact enough, they contact too much. I am always looking and waiting for them to turn out to be a jerk and this is a big flaw in me that I am trying really hard to work on and give people a chance. My teenage child had a talk with me a few weeks back and told me my family have a bet on me being single by the end of the year because I am so "fussy" and this made me really sad and I connected with this guy in the interests of trying to be more open minded and less sceptical of people.
t


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

Narcissist alert! Good call on getting away from him now. My ex was Like this. We met on match.com and I thought he was perfect although maybe moved a little too quickly, but i, like you, enjoyed the newness and differences from the others I'd dated. I ended up marrying him and it was THE worst mistake. I had second thoughts too, but thought i was over thinking it all. Good for you for trusting your instincts!


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Thanks everybody for replying and reassuring me.

I got very upset because he sort of told me I had ruined things but not "relaxing" and I started second guessing myself, completely confused over whether I just ruined something potentially great by being so suspicious or if I dodged a huge bullet.

I get so confused about whether it's me or it's them and I just don't know anymore! I felt both that something was off and that something was right with this guy but I wasn't expecting him to behave like this and it seems that I have this really flawed bit of my personality where I just trust people very easily off the bat and end up hurt.

If I listen to my gut, it tells me he wasn't a player and he was genuinely just very into me and excited. Also that he is 39, desperate for a girlfriend / start a family / not great with women or experienced and I came along and just went in very gun ho. My gut tells me it wasn't all a ruse to get me into bed. Not sure if my gut is right but that was how it felt and how it still feels in hindsight.

The part I am not sure about is the change in behavior, but a lot of good explanations and ideas were offered here. If he did find me less attractive in person, as he said he did, then I guess he's not a very nice person for sticking around and trying to get me into bed then! He should have just said hello, had lunch and politely left without any need to make me feel like crap about it.

Nice guys surely don't do that!

I guess I also learned he doesn't handle conflict very well if he lashes out / goes cold / won't explain or discuss with the other person.

Thanks for listening, I am so bad at evaluating all this and I came away feeling like I did something wrong.


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## Edo Edo (Feb 21, 2017)

Sophie55 said:


> Yes he was extremely nerdy, that is the number one word I'd use to describe him. He kept sending me selfies on his trip that were ind of cringy middle aged guy tourist ones and he admitted he was an introvert and really bad at emotion.
> 
> I think what upset me is that the behavior of turning so cold on me made me feel like he'd faked the entire liking process, and also a little bit paranoid about my looks because he criticised me on that in a nasty way and it made me feel so upset because I did actually really like him! If he'd been genuine, I'd have wanted to continue seeing him!
> 
> I guess I thought if I called him out on the behavior that he'd have reassured me if he was genuine, but he didn't, he attacked me!




Then that explains a lot. His sudden coldness had as much to do with the timing of the rejection than with anything else. Here's a window into the psyche of nerdy introverts: They do not have a lot of social experience, compared with extroverts, especially in areas of dating and intimacy. They tend to be extremely loyal partners, but also lack a subtlety when interacting with others (some say "honest" some say "honest to a fault"). In addition, most personal interaction with members of the opposite sex throughout their lives has taught them to expect rejection on a certain level, which sometimes causes them to put up a secondary levels of walls to protect themselves emotionally. 

This guy genuinely liked you and showed you how enthusiastic he was about being with you the best way he knew how. He even let his guard down enough to show you his nerdish leanings while you communicated (his true self). However, he had his secondary emotional wall up while you were communicating online all the way up through that first date. When you affirmed to him that you enjoyed his company and accepted his second date, he thought you were serious and that secondary wall came down. Then you suddenly rejected him without warning and shocked him to the core. His coldness is a direct result of that shock. To be honest, his cold reaction was probably mild compared to what he experienced/interpreted internally from your final communications together... 

[Note: I'm not trying to make you feel bad. You obviously have every right to date or not date whomever you wish. I'm just giving you perspective as to why things happened the way they did - and that this guy probably was not as bad a person as others are making him out to be. Socially awkward? Yes. A bad guy? Probably not...]


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

alexm said:


> Did you ever call it right!
> 
> It's okay that you initiated a conversation with him afterwards. His tone changed dramatically, and you wanted to know why. For however long, he made you feel special, and the second you called it off, he didn't put up a fight. You wanted to know what was up with that - perfectly reasonable, IMO.
> .


You're so insightful, yes, this was exactly how I felt. I was like, huh?! Yesterday you want to move house to be near me and hold my hand and today you don't even rate me as worth an explanation?

It was plain weird and really hurtful actually.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Edo Edo said:


> Then that explains a lot. His sudden coldness had as much to do with the timing of the rejection than with anything else. Here's a window into the psyche of nerdy introverts: They do not have a lot of social experience, compared with extroverts, especially in areas of dating and intimacy. They tend to be extremely loyal partners, but also lack a subtlety when interacting with others (some say "honest" some say "honest to a fault"). In addition, most personal interaction with members of the opposite sex throughout their lives has taught them to expect rejection on a certain level, which sometimes causes them to put up a secondary levels of walls to protect themselves emotionally.
> 
> This guy genuinely liked you and showed you how enthusiastic he was about being with you the best way he knew how. He even let his guard down enough to show you his nerdish leanings while you communicated (his true self). However, he had his secondary emotional wall up while you were communicating online all the way up through that first date. When you affirmed to him that you enjoyed his company and accepted his second date, he thought you were serious and that secondary wall came down. Then you suddenly rejected him without warning and shocked him to the core. His coldness is a direct result of that shock. To be honest, his cold reaction was probably mild compared to what he experienced/interpreted internally from your final communications together...
> 
> [Note: I'm not trying to make you feel bad. You obviously have every right to date or not date whomever you wish. I'm just giving you perspective as to why things happened the way they did - and that this guy probably was not as bad a person as others are making him out to be. Socially awkward? Yes. A bad guy? Probably not...]


Thanks, I do think you're right on some of that, or at least my gut reading your words is very much like you "get him", but the thing is, if all that's true though....

why did he come back from the date and not call like he said he would?
Why not call the next day, claim he was busy and be logging onto the dating site?
Why the total drop in contact for the first time?
Why did he update his profile photos during his trip while he was calling / messaging me and feeling so positive about me?

And why, when I explained to him that the above was my reasons for breaking it off, if it was indeed innocent, did he not be gentle and understand how that made me feel, reassure me and resolve the problem?

Instead he was like "fine, bye" and deleting me off the face of the earth instead of trying to resolve it.

All that just made him seem totally insincere to me.

Do you not think there's a possibility that he was really into me, and everything you say is right with the exception of one bit. He really DID find me less attractive in person and really WAS disappointed so he woke up and immediately started looking for someone new?

Seems like a really weird reaction to a great date with a girl you really like to ignore her after.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Sophie, you really need to work on your self confidence. For one, it's super sexy in a woman. Plus if things don't work out after one date you won't even have to waste energy worrying about why that is or wanting an explanation.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> Sophie, you really need to work on your self confidence. For one, it's super sexy in a woman. Plus if things don't work out after one date you won't even have to waste energy worrying about why that is or wanting an explanation.


I know you're right on this, but I don't want to hide behind my own flaws and call it confidence if you know what I mean. If I am a person who spoils things by being to suspicious, needy or fussy then I want to work on that too. 

I do lack confidence though in my own mind, it's a big problem!


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Confidence is just deciding what really are flaws and fixing the parts you aren't happy with and accepting the others as part of who you are. That will make you feel good about your decisions and not question what it is that you want/think. Guys seriously dig that! Plus, then you'll think that guys like you and want to date you because you're awesome, and then the suspicious, needy, and fussy behavior will disappear.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Sophie55 said:


> Thanks everybody for replying and reassuring me.
> 
> I got very upset because he sort of told me I had ruined things but not "relaxing" and I started second guessing myself, completely confused over whether I just ruined something potentially great by being so suspicious or if I dodged a huge bullet.
> 
> I get so confused about whether it's me or it's them and I just don't know anymore! I felt both that something was off and that something was right with this guy but I wasn't expecting him to behave like this and it seems that I have this really flawed bit of my personality where I just trust people very easily off the bat and end up hurt.


Don't believe his crap for a SECOND. That is grade-A shaming tactic to make you second guess. My narc told me I was living in the 1950s because I wouldn't have sex with HIM fast enough. And the day before he wouldn't stop holding my hand and saying he'd wait forever....how lucky he was to meet me... Blah blah... 

Maybe we dated the same man? LOL!

He may not be all that bad as I paint it, maybe he did get mixed signals from you. But he is not for you. Learn from the experience and trust your gut better next time!


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, you called it right, but I'm concerned that you had to ask the question in the first place. Online dating is filled with scumbags, losers, scammers, con men, etc. You have to have to have a pretty strong filter to weed through everyone. And the problem with OLD is that the scammers are specifically looking for vulnerable people to prey upon, and they're very skilled at it. If you don't have good defenses, it's easy to get fooled and taken for a ride. 

There are good people out there as well, so you don't have to give up. It's fine to keep looking and dating, but don't feel bad about cutting people off. Whether it's because you're not compatible or because he gives you a creepy feeling, you will be better in the long run moving on rather than trying to make a bad situation work.

In the future, do not meet at your house until a few in-person dates where you meet in public.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Bananapeel said:


> Confidence is just deciding what really are flaws and fixing the parts you aren't happy with and accepting the others as part of who you are. That will make you feel good about your decisions and not question what it is that you want/think. Guys seriously dig that! Plus, then you'll think that guys like you and want to date you because you're awesome, and then the suspicious, needy, and fussy behavior will disappear.


I know and the best people I know are really great at this, but also the worst people I know THINK they are great at it and really they are just dysfunctional or horrible people so I am trying to find the line there. I don't FEEL particularly confident about me in some ways and I know that shines through in the insecurity. I am really just trying to learn to fake it before I make it so I can date someone nice. I have been single forever!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

I think you called it right. This guy is older and wants desperately to have a girlfriend/wife as fast as possible. When he found out that you didn't want to go at light speed in dating him, he lost interest and deleted you off the planet while a day before you were his world. You were right to be skeptical of this guy.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Sophie55 said:


> I know and the best people I know are really great at this, but also the worst people I know THINK they are great at it and really they are just dysfunctional or horrible people so I am trying to find the line there. I don't FEEL particularly confident about me in some ways and I know that shines through in the insecurity. *I am really just trying to learn to fake it before I make it so I can date someone nice. I have been single forever!*


I apologize if I offend you with this, as that's not my intention at all. But, honestly, you sound desperate to have someone in your life. And that desperation will do two things: It will scare off good men and it will attract the creepers. Neither of which gets you any closer to a healthy relationship with a healthy partner. In fact, you aren't even a healthy partner for a healthy relationship, yourself, right now. I would strongly suggest that you slow up or stop dating until you figure out how to be entirely happy all alone. Right now, you're dating from a position of weakness, neediness, and fear. You're afraid to be alone, for what I'm guessing are a number of personal and family-of-origin issues. If you can learn to be happy and fulfilled on your own, then you can date from a position of strength. You can look for a partner who enhances your already great life, rather than _needing_ a man to save you from loneliness. 

Sincerely, OP, you really, really, really, need to work on your own self-esteem. When you have a healthy self-esteem, you'll trust yourself enough not to be continually second-guessing yourself this way. You won't spend time trying to "make it work" or "give the benefit of the doubt" with someone who's tripped your healthy internal security alarm by acting shady, moving too fast, pressuring you, or violating your boundaries. And, you'll be able to move on without any of your current angst, fear, or doubt - knowing that they just weren't a great match for you but that someone out there will be.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

He sounds like a psycho nut job; very unstable. Be glad you're rid of him.

May I suggest not giving out your address and having internet strangers meet you at your home on a first date? No matter how many times you have video–chatted with him, you don't really know him AT ALL. Now he knows where you live.

Very unwise.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Rowan said:


> I apologize if I offend you with this, as that's not my intention at all. But, honestly, you sound desperate to have someone in your life. And that desperation will do two things: It will scare off good men and it will attract the creepers. Neither of which gets you any closer to a healthy relationship with a healthy partner. In fact, you aren't even a healthy partner for a healthy relationship, yourself, right now. I would strongly suggest that you slow up or stop dating until you figure out how to be entirely happy all alone. Right now, you're dating from a position of weakness, neediness, and fear. You're afraid to be alone, for what I'm guessing are a number of personal and family-of-origin issues. If you can learn to be happy and fulfilled on your own, then you can date from a position of strength. You can look for a partner who enhances your already great life, rather than _needing_ a man to save you from loneliness.
> 
> Sincerely, OP, you really, really, really, need to work on your own self-esteem. When you have a healthy self-esteem, you'll trust yourself enough not to be continually second-guessing yourself this way. You won't spend time trying to "make it work" or "give the benefit of the doubt" with someone who's tripped your healthy internal security alarm by acting shady, moving too fast, pressuring you, or violating your boundaries. And, you'll be able to move on without any of your current angst, fear, or doubt - knowing that they just weren't a great match for you but that someone out there will be.


It doesn't offend me at all, I asked on a forum so I could get "real" advice rather than my friends saying what I wanted to hear so I really appreciate you taking time for me.

Yes, I do feel desperate to have someone in my life. I'm lonely. I miss being kissed, miss having someone and all that. I know that's such a bad thing to say but it's the hand on heart truth. That said - I haven't (and won't) settle for someone who isn't right no matter how strong those feelings are and I am looking for the right person, not just any person. Yes though, it does hugely add to my disappointment when it doesn't work out because I do really want it to!

That part was accurate, the rest was wrong. I've been alone practically all my life. All of my 20s I was travelling with work and single, I was briefly happy with someone but he passed away sadly and since then I have been single really for years. Out of every 100 people who asks me out online I say yes to maybe 1 or 2 based on my gut feelings of if we're a match. I know myself pretty well, know what kind of person would make me happy. I have a busy life and a child, I can't date every night of the week or invest lots of time into dating and maybe part of the problem is that I am SO picky I invest so much in the ones I do pick that it hurts when they turn out to be nothing like they indicated.

In 2017 I have had 5 dates! 4 with one jerk and 1 with another jerk! So it's not that I don't know how to be alone and how to be happy alone (that's pretty much been my whole life) it's just that I honestly and truly really miss having someone to love and love me back and I regret how much of my life has been devoted to work or other things.

You're bang on with my self esteem problem though, and it is a really big issue for me. If you knew me in real life you'd never believe this was how I felt. I think people see me and think I have the perfect life or something. My work life is a really amazing success and I am in magazines and stuff for my work and all my married friends think I have it so great. but I am alone every night! it gets me sad that's all.

The self esteem issues I think stem from so many things I wouldn't know where to begin!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Rowan said:


> In fact, you aren't even a healthy partner for a healthy relationship, yourself, right now. I would strongly suggest that you slow up or stop dating until you figure out how to be entirely happy all alone. Right now, you're dating from a position of weakness, neediness, and fear.
> 
> Sincerely, OP, you really, really, really, need to work on your own self-esteem. When you have a healthy self-esteem, you'll trust yourself enough not to be continually second-guessing yourself this way. You won't spend time trying to "make it work" or "give the benefit of the doubt" with someone who's tripped your healthy internal security alarm by acting shady, moving too fast, pressuring you, or violating your boundaries. And, you'll be able to move on without any of your current angst, fear, or doubt - knowing that they just weren't a great match for you but that someone out there will be.


I think you're being a little hard on her. I don't think she comes off as weak or needy at all. She used her gut and it told her something was off with this guy so she was careful. She didn't dump him right away and gave him a chance, I don't think that makes her needy. 

I've seen the "you have to be happy all alone" crap in all the BS self help books marketed to singles. People date because they don't want to be alone. I'd say that's perfectly normal. I remember when I was single I didn't want to be alone either, so I dated...duh.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

I'd categorise me as weak and needy at times, so it was probably a fair comment to be honest. I am trying to improve anyway.

Last guy - thought he was wonderful / crazy about me, dated a few weeks, slept together, next day he wasn't ready for a relationship out of nowhere.

This guy - caught it before I slept with him

So an improvement at least for me, and hopefully if that continues and I gain a bit of confidence in dating then I might meet the right person. I don't think being alone and not dating helps me at all. That's what I always do and it just makes me more and more closed off and defensive. What I think I probably need is a bit more practice.

I am generally fairly reclusive romantically. I know my friends and family make jokes about me saying "no one is good enough" and I know they mean well but inside I am not as cold as I appear to be. I want love, but I have a lot of things working against me.

Lack of free time
Working in a job where I only have contact with women
Mixing in circles where literally everybody is married
Being naturally stand-offish with new men

I am not really an easy woman to date, so it's partly my fault and I do have a tendency to only date men who pursue me very strongly (because I need encouragement) so that's possibly why such a large portion of them are jerks. I guess nice and normal guys aren't quite so full on.


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## growing_weary (Jul 23, 2017)

Yeah so by the fourth paragraph I was hearing "danger, Will Robinson" in my head. You most certainly dodged a bullet.


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## Annie123 (Apr 27, 2015)

I think that could have turned into a controlling/emotionally abusive relationship. I've read about controlling people moving their relationships a little too fast and once they had you all in, they would show their true colors. By respecting your boundairies and refusing to sleep with him on your first date, you showed him that you had self respect, that your boundaries were there to stay and he realized you might be too strong for him to 'break'.
Yes, this is just one possibility. It could have been anything but there is just no possibility that this could have ended well. Be glad you got to see his true colors before it was too late.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Sophie55 said:


> Thanks, I do think you're right on some of that, or at least my gut reading your words is very much like you "get him", but the thing is, if all that's true though....
> 
> why did he come back from the date and not call like he said he would?
> Why not call the next day, claim he was busy and be logging onto the dating site?
> ...


I didn't get to read other replies in this thread yet. I am going to answer simply from my opinion I formed from reading your post. I could be dead wrong, but here goes.

I'm with @Edo Edo on this one.

I think he was very inexperienced and so into you that he was probably quite hurt that things didn't go the way he hoped that night. In a way you lead him on by accepting his behaviors that you were feeling off about (sadly, most of us do this to some extent, so don't beat yourself up over it). 

On your questions:

-I think he didn't call because he was probably feeling sad and disappointed, and was immaturely hoping you would reach out to or chase him down, so he could feel as wanted as he was trying to make you feel.

-He didn't call because he was still hoping you would. He was probably logged into the dating site to make himself feel less sad. 

-He was desperately hoping you would show him how much you wanted him too. He dropped contact because his insecurites coupled with you awkward responses caused him to go into hiding. I'm sure he was hoping you would make dramatic gestures to get ahold of him once you realized he wasn't contacting you anymore. Kinda like relationship drama in Jr. High.

As far as updating his profile, if I'm understanding this, the two of you had never met, and then went on one date, right? I doubt you had already established exclusivity, had you? I don't find it that strange that he added his vacay photos.

As far as how he handled it, I'm guessing he was hurt, and is extremely insecure and inexperienced. Who knows, he may very well be wonderful boyfriend material when he figures out how to handle himself better, or finds a woman who wants to give him the relationship experience and skills he needs.

Sure he could be a total player scumbag jerk...but he could also be an awkward inexperienced man, saying and doing dumb things as he is bumbling through dating like a big oaf. It seems clear you are not the match for him. I hope you find someone more suited to your liking soon.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sounds like a textbook narcissist. They come on VERY strong, with EVERYONE. And then...they go cold, to get the exact reaction that happened here. I dated a few narcissists, and while it's hard to diagnose, there are traits that seem to run true for all of them, and these are exactly it. Over the top texting, calling, inserting themselves into your life too quickly, too much too fast, talking marriage after a few chats, etc...and then ...as quickly as they came on strong, they act like you don't exist.

Be thankful he showed you his true colors early on.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Spicy said:


> I didn't get to read other replies in this thread yet. I am going to answer simply from my opinion I formed from reading your post. I could be dead wrong, but here goes.
> 
> I'm with @Edo Edo on this one.
> 
> ...


I don't think he would have felt rejected that I didn't want to have sex. I explained it was because I didn't want the physical side to move faster than the rest of things and I'm a very warm and sensitive person, I wasn't rebuffing him or anything and I was very responsive to kissing and everything else. I'd also agreed to second date within 48 hours of the first. I don't think he was feeling rejected. Maybe a bit disappointed because he wanted to get sex

I got the feeling he just didn't like me as much after meeting me. That was how it felt. Like all of a sudden I was not interesting or priority anymore.

Maybe some physical flaw on me put him off or something and he is just really shallow. 

I have no idea but feel sure something changed. 

Maybe he even met someone else on the dating site. If he was browsing and updating pics that can happen so easily. Could explain why he was so blase about me walking away. Maybe he was just relieved when I broke it off because he found someone similar looking but younger. I have experienced that before.

I do think you two both described him the most accurately though, he was definitely this sort of nerdy / insecure / inexperienced type of person. It was all a bit awkward like dorky Dad dating but I think that was why I liked him. He seemed so innocent and open and untarnished and I really liked that.

I really didn't like the way he reacted to being challenged though, even if he was innocent of everything else and he was so abrupt and cold I'd really hate to be in love with or committed to someone who could turn like that because it would really upset me having a husband who gave me the silent treatment or screamed at me. I need someone who'd reassure me when I felt upset and who'd talk to me if we had a problem


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

What he actually said to me regarding my appearance was "your photos are also out of date. not good. you shouldn't hide and pretend to be something you're not.

That was exactly what he said, and I found this pretty strange because he had a lot of photos of me and a lot of those not only recent but literally taken on the day we were speaking. 

of course there's an allowance for favourable camera angles and other things, but he actually FACETIMED with me on several occasions -hardly possible for me to appear different from who I am - and one one of those facetimes I was in bed at night with zero makeup on and hair a mess so it was pretty candid and honest. 

I wasn't really sure how he felt misled or disappointing by my appearance on that basis, but this was what he threw at me as a passing remark and maybe that accounts for how strange he was. 

It was all strange! I have had lots of internet dates and they all said I look exactly the same in real life so this was an anomaly.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sophie55 said:


> What he actually said to me regarding my appearance was "your photos are also out of date. not good. you shouldn't hide and pretend to be something you're not.
> 
> That was exactly what he said, and I found this pretty strange because he had a lot of photos of me and a lot of those not only recent but literally taken on the day we were speaking.
> 
> ...


He's lying. You broke things off, so this was his way of putting you in your place. I would go no contact, and if he EVER reaches out again, I'd ignore. But, I'd block his number to be honest. But how you are going over and over all this in your head, is EXACTLY what he wanted. Narcissists are insecure people who try to make others insecure. The next time a guy comes on this strong, RUN ...do not go on a date with him. lol


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Sophie55 said:


> What he actually said to me regarding my appearance was "your photos are also out of date. not good. you shouldn't hide and pretend to be something you're not.
> 
> That was exactly what he said, and I found this pretty strange because he had a lot of photos of me and a lot of those not only recent but literally taken on the day we were speaking.
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's a pretty crappy thing to say, he sounds vengeful.

I was married for over 20 years before my divorce, and met my hubby so quickly after I built my profile that I didn't get a ton of experience with OLD. I remember him asking me if the photos I sent him were current (I had opted to not have my photo on my profile). They were. He felt strongly that current photos were important. He had been internet dating for years, and had all kinds of crazy run ins, so he was probably wise to most of the crap on there, and he said old pics were common, and usually very inaccurate. He also later commented that if all a girls photos were of the camera up high and only the top part of her body, this meant she was a "big girl" and that she was trying to hide that with camera angles etc. (He is not attracted to big women). I rolled my eyes and told him he was shallow lol.

Since you FT with him, unless you were being a professional cinematographer during your chats, he knew what you looked like. Yep, dodged a bullet. You sound lovely and you will find a great guy.


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## Sophie55 (May 19, 2017)

Spicy said:


> Yeah, that's a pretty crappy thing to say, he sounds vengeful.
> 
> I was married for over 20 years before my divorce, and met my hubby so quickly after I built my profile that I didn't get a ton of experience with OLD. I remember him asking me if the photos I sent him were current (I had opted to not have my photo on my profile). They were. He felt strongly that current photos were important. He had been internet dating for years, and had all kinds of crazy run ins, so he was probably wise to most of the crap on there, and he said old pics were common, and usually very inaccurate. He also later commented that if all a girls photos were of the camera up high and only the top part of her body, this meant she was a "big girl" and that she was trying to hide that with camera angles etc. (He is not attracted to big women). I rolled my eyes and told him he was shallow lol.
> 
> Since you FT with him, unless you were being a professional cinematographer during your chats, he knew what you looked like. Yep, dodged a bullet. You sound lovely and you will find a great guy.


Thanks so much for that, it helped me feel better. I always worry with online dating because I _am_ very photogenic. My Mother is a model, even now at 64 she is still a model and quite often on TV talkshows modelling clothes! A camera really loves both of us. It's always a running joke with my friends as most people look better in real life and I think in my case the opposite is true; which is one of the reasons I almost always Facetime before an online date so there's a really clear picture.

I make allowances for there being an element of attraction that can't be determined over photos or video chats but then if he wasn't attracted to me there was no reason why he couldn't have had lunch with me and politely left. 

We'd joked about this and both said there was a chance of no chemistry in person and he said 80% of dates he had two polite drinks and left - so if he wasn't attracted to me it was easy to do that. You don't pretend to be attracted to the girl, kiss her lots, have a big bulge pressing into her, book a second date and *then* tell her she's wasn't as attractive as you thought she was going to be!

Just a very mean thing to do!


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Sophie55 said:


> What he actually said to me regarding my appearance was "your photos are also out of date. not good. you shouldn't hide and pretend to be something you're not.
> 
> That was exactly what he said, and I found this pretty strange because he had a lot of photos of me and a lot of those not only recent but literally taken on the day we were speaking.
> 
> ...


He was just trying to get back at you with some misguided immature comments.


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