# Kicked out of the Bedroom



## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

This is a 10 year relationship -

Our first year together was extremely volatile so we each sought individual therapy and worked on our own issues, allowing us to have a very happy and loving relationship. Her kids are my kids, my daughter is her daughter, we have a dog that we love very much and he loves us (as long as we have treats).

Two years ago I was laid off from my job but was always able to pay my bills and still get groceries. We share the cooking, she does most of the cleaning, I take care of the home maintenance. The kids are still in college and as long as they are in college, we support them. It's not always easy but it's been working.

Anyway, about a year ago, maybe more she began to complain that I wasn't giving her enough loving attention in the sense that I never initiated sex. I have concluded that during our relationship, I have never denied her affection when she asked for it or when she came to me for a kiss or hug, however I HAVE been denied on many occasions, particularly when she is mad at me. I think that shied me away from requesting it.

I looked hard to replace the job that I had and she kept pushing me harder and harder. I held my ground and finally landed a good job but I work long hours to prove my worth so they will hire me and I really like what I do. It's much better pay, too.

Several months ago I noticed she was coming home really late at night and started to suspect she may be cheating but shook off the feeling. Soon she began accusing me of cheating and asking me where I had been, what I had been doing and getting overall suspicious. I had nothing to hide but it kept up and nothing I said would change the way she was thinking.

Recently I made her mad and typically when it's bad, I could spend three or four days in the dog house (no, I didn't cheat or lie or hit her) but it's been almost a month now and recently she asked me to move out of the bedroom. She said I made her feel like I wouldn't be there for her if and when she ever needed me. I don't want to make her feel like that AND I feel like she emotionally abuses me, which is my own fault because I let her.

Anyway, thanks for listening. I think it's done but would love to hear what others might think.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

So did you have a particular question?

My first thought is that if she's not happy, SHE can move out of the bedroom. My second thought is that you should read "No More Mr. Nice Guy". 

But... What kind of things do you do to "get in the doghouse"?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> This is a 10 year relationship -
> 
> Our first year together was extremely volatile so we each sought individual therapy and worked on our own issues, allowing us to have a very happy and loving relationship. Her kids are my kids, my daughter is her daughter, we have a dog that we love very much and he loves us (as long as we have treats).
> 
> ...


Find out what you're up against.

Do you have records of cell phones, text logs, IM, chats, etc?

How about facebook and/or email access?

Put a voice-activated recorder under the seat of her car and in other locations where she expects privacy.

You'll like have the name of posOM in 24-48 hours.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

TheCatfish said:


> This is a 10 year relationship -
> 
> Our first year together was extremely volatile so we each sought individual therapy and worked on our own issues, allowing us to have a very happy and loving relationship. Her kids are my kids, my daughter is her daughter, we have a dog that we love very much and he loves us (as long as we have treats).
> 
> ...



You need to start investigating. Start researching the CWI on ways to investigate. Do not confront her. I say again do not confront her. We have been there and are here to help.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> So did you have a particular question?
> 
> My first thought is that if she's not happy, SHE can move out of the bedroom. My second thought is that you should read "No More Mr. Nice Guy".
> 
> ...


Sometimes I forget things, like something I was supposed to get at the groceries. Sometimes I may not think about her when she fully expected me to think of her or if I make a move without consulting her.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Conrad said:


> Find out what you're up against.
> 
> Do you have records of cell phones, text logs, IM, chats, etc?
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, I think doing that is an invasion of privacy even though she does it to me.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> You need to start investigating. Start researching the CWI on ways to investigate. Do not confront her. I say again do not confront her. We have been there and are here to help.


Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, I'm not big on the invasion of privacy thing, however; I did have a chance to view some files on her old PC and AOL and found that recently she was doing searches on one of my old email accounts. I felt to guilty to go any further in looking into it as I was in her email. Bad me! Bad!

She does it to me all the time, though. Earlier in our relationship I did give her reason to believe I was on the prowl but I have worked through those issues and have been completely and utterly faithful with complete transparency.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Dude,

You'll get nowhere until you start manning up. Sorry to use such a cliche phrase, but it's true. Until then, she'll keep walking all over you. Whether she's having an affair or not...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> Dude,
> 
> You'll get nowhere until you start manning up. Sorry to use such a cliche phrase, but it's true. Until then, she'll keep walking all over you. Whether she's having an affair or not...
> 
> ...


I know it sounds like I'm a pushyover and I fully believe you are correct about having to "man" up but I fear I have reached that point of no return and I think it might be what I need. I feel like I sacrificed way too much for this relationship and I feel like I'm just a wisp of the original man I used to be.

My "man" up moment needs to be a definitive "goodbye" not an all out spying spree.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> I know it sounds like I'm a pushyover and I fully believe you are correct about having to "man" up but I fear I have reached that point of no return and I think it might be what I need. I feel like I sacrificed way too much for this relationship and I feel like I'm just a wisp of the original man I used to be.
> 
> My "man" up moment needs to be a definitive "goodbye" not an all out spying spree.


If your instincts are working for you, how'd you end up here?


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> You need to start investigating. Start researching the CWI on ways to investigate. Do not confront her. I say again do not confront her. We have been there and are here to help.


BTW, what is CWI?


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

PBear said:


> My first thought is that if she's not happy, SHE can move out of the bedroom.


Absolutely. Step One should be moving back into the bedroom, and damn the torpedos.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> I know it sounds like I'm a pushyover and I fully believe you are correct about having to "man" up but I fear I have reached that point of no return and I think it might be what I need. I feel like I sacrificed way too much for this relationship and I feel like I'm just a wisp of the original man I used to be.
> 
> My "man" up moment needs to be a definitive "goodbye" not an all out spying spree.


It's not a "man up moment" you need. Unless you're looking for your next relationship to be just like this one. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

And if you know what you need to do, my question stands... What's your question for us? You have my permission/encouragement to tell her where she can go with her idea of kicking you out if the bedroom. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'd say it's projection on her part! If I were you, I'd start investigating her email, FB, cell phone records and texts. But do not confront ~ not until you have enough information to make a case against her!

And if she's wanting you out of your bedroom, chances are that she's already having someone else service her, and in her estimation and in wanting to remain monogamous and faithful to her "new" love interest, there's no further need for you!

And I'd greatly recommend that you move back into the bedroom, and let her vacate to another room!

Sorry to see you here at TAM, Catfish! But you have come to the right place for help!*


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> It's not a "man up moment" you need. Unless you're looking for your next relationship to be just like this one.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Geez, do you have to smack man right upside the mouth with the truth?


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> And if you know what you need to do, my question stands... What's your question for us? You have my permission/encouragement to tell her where she can go with her idea of kicking you out if the bedroom.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is probably what I seek and thank you all very much, too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Geez, do you have to smack man right upside the mouth with the truth?


This is a wake-up moment in your life's journey, if you choose to take it.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Geez, do you have to smack man right upside the mouth with the truth?


I'd like to say I'm sorry, but I'm not really. . And if I was trying to smack you in the mouth with the truth, I would have made comments referring to you wearing your wife's undergarments and your wife keeping your testicles safely in her purse... But I refrained from that! 

I do wish you well. Check out that book I mentioned. There's free PDF versions floating around. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Conrad said:


> If your instincts are working for you, how'd you end up here?


I'm not sure. :scratchhead:


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> I'd like to say I'm sorry, but I'm not really. . And if I was trying to smack you in the mouth with the truth, I would have made comments referring to you wearing your wife's undergarments and your wife keeping your testicles safely in her purse... But I refrained from that!
> 
> I do wish you well. Check out that book I mentioned. There's free PDF versions floating around.
> 
> ...


I know.  I really appreciate you guys chiming in and I guess my problem is I have lost all confidence in myself throughout this relationship and it's your encouragement that will put me back in gear.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

TheCatfish said:


> I'm not sure. :scratchhead:


I'd propose that it may because you fear your wife's reaction, whether her reaction is justified or not, and are willing to do just about anything to keep the peace, even at the cost of reasonably standing your ground.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

CWI Coping with Infidelity forum

Privacy is for the potty. 

You need to find out if she's cheating or not. 

I think she may be.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

PBear said:


> I'd like to say I'm sorry, but I'm not really. . And if I was trying to smack you in the mouth with the truth, I would have made comments referring to you wearing your wife's undergarments and your wife keeping your testicles safely in her purse... But I refrained from that!
> 
> I do wish you well. Check out that book I mentioned. There's free PDF versions floating around.
> 
> ...


BTW, reading it now.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

GTdad said:


> I'd propose that it may because you fear your wife's reaction, whether her reaction is justified or not, and are willing to do just about anything to keep the peace, even at the cost of reasonably standing your ground.


You propose correctly, I'm sure of it. I gotta stop being Mr. niceguy.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" and wow, what an insightful read. Why couldn't a therapist lead me here. Thanks folks!

BTW, the book is not about "How to be a D***"


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## DiamondsandRust (Jan 21, 2014)

sounds like she's manipulating you. you need to investigate about her cheating or not. it's better to know the truth than to be guessing. if you can access email, phone records and such, do so. 
you have every right to find the truth.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

DiamondsandRust said:


> sounds like she's manipulating you. you need to investigate about her cheating or not. it's better to know the truth than to be guessing. if you can access email, phone records and such, do so.
> you have every right to find the truth.


You know, it's kinda funny cause I've always known her email password and after reading all of these I finally decided to do some checking.............her password has been changed. :scratchhead:


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

TheCatfish said:


> You know, it's kinda funny cause I've always known her email password and after reading all of these I finally decided to do some checking.............her password has been changed. :scratchhead:


Be super sleuthful while investigating. Go to CWI as mentioned. There is a lot of help over there. The one person who I think really stands out is a guy named weightlifter. Good luck.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

TheCatfish said:


> You know, it's kinda funny cause I've always known her email password and after reading all of these I finally decided to do some checking.............her password has been changed. :scratchhead:





This is a huge red flag! 

Do not let her know you are looking. I can't stress it enough. Even if you see something, hold onto it and process it here before you react.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

GutPunch said:


> This is a huge red flag!
> 
> Do not let her know you are looking. I can't stress it enough. Even if you see something, hold onto it and process it here before you react.


OK, no worries. I haven't finished reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yet so I'm still lacking testes.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> OK, no worries. I haven't finished reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" yet so I'm still lacking testes.


You can get the password by installing a keylogger on the computer.

Again, get some time when you know she's not around to set it up.

She'll never suspect it.

Yet, the fact she changed the password indicates she thinks she's in the clear.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

TheCatfish said:


> Several months ago I noticed she was coming home really late at night and started to suspect she may be cheating but shook off the feeling. Soon she began accusing me of cheating and asking me where I had been, what I had been doing and getting overall suspicious. I had nothing to hide but it kept up and nothing I said would change the way she was thinking.


I shook off the feeling my stbxh was cheating when he started coming home late and his stories weren't adding up. I shouldn't have done that.

Accusing you of cheating is a way of deflecting it back to you. They have nothing to say when you suspect them of cheating so they turn the tables on you.

Look into it.


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## DumbDude (Jul 27, 2013)

PBear said:


> My first thought is that if she's not happy, SHE can move out of the bedroom. My second thought is that you should read "No More Mr. Nice Guy".
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

search of VAR and read Weightlifter's long and expert instruction. The VARs are very successful. Often one in the car gets the dope in less than a week.


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## helolover (Aug 24, 2012)

I strongly suspect your wife is cheating. Changing passwords, staying out late, you moving out of the bedroom, projecting her cheating onto you....... textbook cheating script.

You will not grow nuts magically by reading NMMNG. It will help you break free from your NG tendencies, but in the mean time, I think you're being chumped. 

Stop agreeing to stuff you're not okay with. Today. Stop.

You think you are keeping the peace with your wife, but you are not. She believes she has all of the power in the relationship (and it seems she does) as she uses her sexual availability (or lack) as the proverbial carrrot or stick. She sees you as weak. 

Once you find out your wife is cheating: 
1. Pinch yourself. This is not a dream, Neo.
2. Do not blame yourself or allow her to blame you. There will be antics, crying, charades, etc. Remain calm and in control of yourself.
3. No crying, begging, chasing, pleading. Calm action. 
4. Determine your desired outcome - if cheating is a deal breaker, begin divorce proceedings immediately. Don't tell her what you are going to do. Act.
If after much consideration on your part if you want to try to work it out (don't default to this), institute the 180 (many many threads on this), fix yourself and figure a way ahead that works on your terms, not hers.
5. Get your self in great physical and emotional shape. This may take a bit. 

Read NMMNG forums, Read TAM. Read and learn about yourself. You cannot fix or change her. Do not try.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

I would amplify helo's great advice.

She expect nothing "proactive" from you.

You are the doormat she wipes her feet on.

Surprise her.

Talk less (if at all), do more.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Well this morning she removed every drawer from the dresser that contained my clothes and threw it on the floor in my office, then she removed all my clothes from the closet and threw them on top of the pile. I love her to death but this is no way to live.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

I remained calm and asked her, no told her to speak to me without raising her voice. She proceeded to tell me that "I never listen to her, why should she listen to me?" I told her that I understood she was hurt and I apologize but this was no way to settle things. She said "Well it makes me feel better."

At this point I have two choices. I can take all my clothes and put them back in the closet and dresser OR I can move all the stuff out of the office closet and put my clothes there. Either way, any move is going to be seen as a threat to her and fuel her even more.

With her, if I do something for her she says "I WILL DO IT MYSELF" and if I don't do something for her she say "You can't even help with that?"


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

TheCatfish said:


> I remained calm and asked her, no told her to speak to me without raising her voice. She proceeded to tell me that "I never listen to her, why should she listen to me?" I told her that I understood she was hurt and I apologize but this was no way to settle things. She said "Well it makes me feel better."
> 
> Stop apologizing.
> 
> ...


Put your clothes back where they belong and quit explaining yourself to her. You need to get the VAR asap.


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

Move your stuff down to your office and limit all contact with her. Go dark, do not let her engage you. It works.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

helolover said:


> I strongly suspect your wife is cheating. Changing passwords, staying out late, you moving out of the bedroom, projecting her cheating onto you....... textbook cheating script.
> 
> You will not grow nuts magically by reading NMMNG. It will help you break free from your NG tendencies, but in the mean time, I think you're being chumped.
> 
> ...


Cheating is not a deal breaker for me. I understand why it happens. Everybody thinks about and sometimes a person is presented an opportunity and takes it. I have learned first hand how damaging it can be to a relationship even if they never find out.

What is a deal breaker is they way I am treated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Well this morning she removed every drawer from the dresser that contained my clothes and threw it on the floor in my office, then she removed all my clothes from the closet and threw them on top of the pile. I love her to death but this is no way to live.


What a drama queen.

Stand firm.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

TheCatfish said:


> I love her to death but this is no way to live.


 Then don't live that way.

Look. If you let her continue, your not only going to find your clothes in your office but someday you'll find them out in the yard. 

Pick you god damn clothes up. Put them back in the drawer where they were in the first place. That is a total lack of respect and your allowing it. 

Next thing you do is let her know that if she isn't happy then for her to pack her stuff up and move the hell out and she can do what ever she wants but while you living in the house YOU WONT BE DISRESPECTED BY HER OR ANYONE ELSE.

There comes a point in time where you have to defend yourself. Stop being the nice guy. She already has you out of the bedroom. Pretty soon you'll be out of your own house. I'll say it. Get some balls and back bone and hold your ground.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

6301 said:


> Then don't live that way.
> 
> Look. If you let her continue, your not only going to find your clothes in your office but someday you'll find them out in the yard.
> 
> ...


Can't. She broke the drawers. lol. Thanks. I'm working on getting my balls back and your advice is well received.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Can't. She broke the drawers. lol. Thanks. I'm working on getting my balls back and your advice is well received.


Here's a tip on some emotional communication.

Go to Home Depot and buy a large safe. Have them come and install it in your bedroom and bolt it to the floor. Only you have the combination and/or key.

Clothes go in there.

You can use it for precious metals storage later on once this is resolved.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Update - I moved everything out of the office closet and put most of my clothes there. I received a text that said "Feel free to put your clothes back, I feel better." I won't be putting my clothes back.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

My thought when I saw that she broke your drawers... Take pictures of that. Consider using that situation to get a TRO and having her booted from the house. She has issues that she needs to work on, like anger management. Destroying property is not an acceptable way to deal with things. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

It's her dresser. Technically it's her house but I'm not worried about anything tangible, just the relationship. Most of our stuff is separate with the exception of a trailer.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Update - she came to me with a list of things that need to be done for the separation. I agreed and then she said if I had anything to say she would listen so I told her how she was constantly beating me down and then it got physical - no, I didn't hit her but she threw her own computer against the floor, threw things at me and pushed me. This is all messed up. eventually she asked me to leave just for a little while so I stood my ground and said no but apparently that didn't sit too well so I finally left, went to a bar that my band regularly plays and confided in the bartender. 

I'm back home, in my office, not happy to even be here and don't even feel safe. Great life, huh?


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Things aren't going to end nicely. My STBXH behaved nearly the same exact way. Out of the blue - wanted a divorce. I lived in the office and he stayed in the bedroom. I implemented the 180 right away. He had the house before we were married but we are married. By law, he or she can't kick you out of the home. He demanded I leave. I go to school full-time and work two jobs. I told him he wasn't going to kick me out on the streets and when I got the divorce papers I would leave but I wasn't going to interrupt my life and schedule to move because he wanted me out. I told him if he had such a problem with being around me he could stay with his friends or family until I made arrangements. We went weeks not speaking to each other. Finally one day he left his phone on the bed. I picked it up and went through it and didn't have to look very far. He was seeing someone he went to high school with which explained why he was disappearing night after night. Not to mention the condoms started coming up missing. Sometimes two at time! Anyway, I got the proof I needed and remained calm. Didn't say anything. Told his brother who got pissed and told his mom. His mom called him. He came home one night and unlocked the door to the office and started screaming at me for looking through his phone. Luckily, I had joined TAM and had downloaded a voice activated recorder and taped everything. He threated me to get out of the house and said he was going to take all my stuff while I was at work and throw it out on the streets so that I would have no choice to leave. He was relentless that night. I almost called the cops. The only reason he wanted me out was because he wanted to bring his new chick over. Didn't look good when the WIFE was still living in the home. He left early the next morning and I got a hold of all the documentation I needed for the divorce. I stayed away from the home for 2 days. When I returned he had boxed up all my belongings and put it in the garage. Including furniture he decided he was willing to part with. I moved it all and have had no contact with him since. If she believes it is her home she will drive you out. Take pictures, video, and tape what she says to you. I recorded my husband saying he had already taken the equity out of the home so I wouldn't get any of it. Good Luck! Stay Strong!


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## smallsteps (Feb 23, 2013)

TheCatfish said:


> Update - she came to me with a list of things that need to be done for the separation. I agreed and then she said if I had anything to say she would listen so I told her how she was constantly beating me down and then it got physical - no, I didn't hit her but she threw her own computer against the floor, threw things at me and pushed me. This is all messed up. eventually she asked me to leave just for a little while so I stood my ground and said no but apparently that didn't sit too well so I finally left, went to a bar that my band regularly plays and confided in the bartender.
> 
> I'm back home, in my office, not happy to even be here and don't even feel safe. Great life, huh?


This is what I'm talking about. You let her engage you. When she came to you
with that list there should have been no response from you. Go dark.

Do you notice a pattern? She comes to you with this or that, you
respond, she flips out. 

Stop letting her do that. Enough!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Well, there it is. Got the apology letter for flipping out. Been here before. First comes apology, then comes the excuses, then the begging for reconciliation and eventually an expensive peace offering. I feel like a battered wife.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Well, there it is. Got the apology letter for flipping out. Been here before. First comes apology, then comes the excuses, then the begging for reconciliation and eventually an expensive peace offering. I feel like a battered wife.


That's because you are.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

Yes, I suppose I am or actually a battered husband but I hope to gradually change my modus operandi from Mr. Nice Guy to just Guy.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> Yes, I suppose I am or actually a battered husband but I hope to gradually change my modus operandi from Mr. Nice Guy to just Guy.


So what have you done to do anything more than "hope"?

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WallsAreUp (Oct 18, 2012)

Get a voice activated recorder and keep it on you at all times. If not you are going to end up in jail.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

2galsmom said:


> Going in now and saying "I am the man! I am in charge!" will NOT get you very far with someone who treats you so poorly.


Please provide the posts where this was recommended.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

2galsmom said:


> Do not bother finding out if she is having an affair, here is the faulty thinking there, it somehow matters in this case.
> 
> It does't, people wait for "deal breakers" like infidelity when in fact they get deal breakers almost every day regardless of the cheating.
> 
> ...


I am with you here on many levels and I am sure this is some mental instability, in fact the same mental instability that she was forced to work on in the beginning of this relationship. That is why the relationship was so volatile, however I thought we had worked through these issues and for the past 5 or 6 years it has been bliss, in fact we tended to become the counselors for others in a relationship.

I'm no saint but I have never treated another human being in the manner she treats me and what bothers me here is that I feel that if I leave, I am abandoning my sick wife where should be getting her help instead but the resentments that build over the things she has done begin to overwhelm me.

I'm just not into the snooping thing and don't think I ever will be. Everyone, even couples need some level of privacy. I do, however think it wouldn't be a bad idea to keep one on my person to record outbreaks like this. Maybe it would be good to hear herself sometimes, I don't know.

I'm looking into counseling for myself just to see what my options may be. You guys have been awesome with all your advice and may have saved me from hopping in my truck and driving into the Appalachians with a backpack. lol


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

2galsmom said:


> Don't cloud this into a gender war Conrad, I will not start one, war is not the answer


You already did.

Either prove your assertion or retract.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

To refresh your memory...



2galsmom said:


> Going in now and saying "I am the man! I am in charge!" will NOT get you very far with someone who treats you so poorly.


Please provide the posts where this was recommended.

I'm being nice. If you continue to evade my request, my conclusion is that you are building an anti-male strawman for the express purpose of knocking it down.

Furthermore, your unwillingness to admit you made a mistake sounds ominously familiar.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

2galsmom said:


> Don't cloud this into a gender war Conrad, I will not start one, war is not the answer. Catfish was told to "man up" and get the "torpedoes" going, do you want me to call out the poster that did that with good intentions? What is the point. You can go back and read the posts.
> 
> My point is this, men blame other men for not "manning" up, this is to say, you are to blame for your abuse because you are not manly enough. No. Not true. You are not to blame for your abuse, your abuser is to blame for your abuse.
> 
> ...


I have finally found a job that I love and I'm working hard to get hired. It pays well, I enjoy it and can sometimes impact my time with her.

I chose her as my life partner 10 years ago when we both worked on our own issues to come together. We realized that if we didn't fix ourselves, rather than each other, we would continue finding partners that were wrong for us. We are actually not married yet. I am now questioning my choice.

When I first began to post this I was hoping to get some insight but I now begin to realize that the issues may be more than what they seem.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

TheCatfish said:


> I have finally found a job that I love and I'm working hard to get hired. It pays well, I enjoy it and can sometimes impact my time with her.
> 
> I chose her as my life partner 10 years ago when we both worked on our own issues to come together. We realized that if we didn't fix ourselves, rather than each other, we would continue finding partners that were wrong for us. We are actually not married yet. I am now questioning my choice.
> 
> When I first began to post this I was hoping to get some insight but I now begin to realize that the issues may be more than what they seem.


You guys aren't married?

Run - fast.


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Conrad said:


> You guys aren't married?
> 
> Run - fast.


+1 on this. If nothing else, it will serve notice that the current dynamic is not acceptable. Personally though, I think you should run and not look back. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

2galsmom said:


> I won't retract Conrad. Read it again with an open mind that does not predispose women are anti-men, or not. It is your choice.
> 
> Catfish, or should I say The Catfish, I know how you feel. When a partner has mental instability, and I am willing to wager anyone who abuses people to that extent man or woman has mental instability, you feel more obligated to stay.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. And I agree with you. Disordered manipulators create codependency. Here's a post I wrote a couple of days ago:

My crazy STBXW once called the police on me. We had a bad phone call in the morning and we exchanged texts all day until I reached the point where I decided enough. I texted her informing her that when we both got home from work we would discuss how we would split up. She didn't call back pleading no.

I got home first and was mad and upset that she seemed to not care about breaking up. In my mind, if she did she would have called. She didn't. I got sad and started drinking. Then I started drunk texting her unkind things I didn't mean but said out of anger. Nothing threatening or suggesting violence, just insults and hateful comments. You know what she did? She came home with the police. 

I packed up and left. Long story short at various times we dragged each other back into the relationship. In retrospect, I should have ended it there because she just wasting my time and money going through the motions of a false reconciliation for months. Additionally, she made me Plan B while she detached emotionally. Once she was ready to bail out she did. She did it to me again and I allowed it to happen to myself. 

I'm sharing this because I want others to learn from my mistakes. I did not behave maturely at times but neither did she. A spouse who falsely calls the police is abusing the system in order to get back control. That is not something you do to someone you supposedly love. Why did I allow that? I wouldn't have tolerated that when we were dating. 

It's not love when I asked her "what do you want to get out of counseling?" and she answers "to see if the marriage is worth saving." 

I know now my wife doesn't love me; must not have for a long time to do all the the awful things she did. I was blind, foolish, and in denial. I also know she has mental health issues which she denies. Every single person in her family has a diagnosis and prescription. One of her kids has issues. She even told me SHE was on the happy pills after second divorce. Now she will have her third divorce. Everybody is wrong except her.

People reading this, please learn from my mistakes: you can't fix crazy, and dont let crazy people fool you into believing that you are the problem. Crazy people will say and do everything to shift the blame off themselves, including pretending to be religious. They are the masters of disguise and manipulation. They will suck you in and make you a codependent giver even if you were balanced and happy before you met them. As codependent takers, they will dump you like trash once they realize you are on to them and they can't leach anything more from you.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Catfish,

How old are your respective children? Have they witnessed the crazy behavior....like throwing her computer on the floor and booting you out of the bedroom? Breaking the dressers? Piling your clothes on the floor? Pushing you?

Do you have separate bank accounts? Do you share expenses? 

What do you have to lose by leaving her?

As has already been mentioned, your partner seems disordered in some way. I suspect BPD, but it really doesn't matter. If you've tolerated her for 10 years, then you've definitely developed codependent tendencies. You've forgotten how to establish, and enforce, boundaries. You've forgotten how to say "no". How many times have you told her "yes" when you've wanted to say "no"?

A healthy person would not tolerate her behavior in a long-term relationship. They would leave. When you are being told to "man up", you are being advised to stop tolerating this abusive behavior. 

Once you leave her and are finally away from her (and it will happen), I suggest IC in order to get to the root of why you were attracted to, and tolerated, this type of person/relationship.

You are not alone here. Many of us have been in toxic relationships with disordered partners. Stay here and learn.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Pictureless said:


> Disordered manipulators create codependency.


No.

Codependent people tolerate and enable disordered manipulators.

Codependent people became that way early on in their lives. This is why IC is so important. To get to the root of it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> I get what you're saying. And I agree with you. Disordered manipulators create codependency. Here's a post I wrote a couple of days ago:


No one can create anything you do not permit.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TheCatfish said:


> Why couldn't a therapist lead me here. Thanks folks!


In defense of the therapist, how can she treat a problem if she doesn't know it exists?
Just like life, not all people understand or care about your situation. Therapy is not "a one size fits all profession." A podiatrist will not be able to diagnose a brain tumor right? A therapist dealing with communication and intimacy issues may not catch the signs of infidelity. Especially, if your wife is lying and you are in there trying not to anger your wife. You understand that may mean you are "lying by omission?" A therapist can't help if they only know half or less of a situation.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Catfish,
> 
> How old are your respective children? Have they witnessed the crazy behavior....like throwing her computer on the floor and booting you out of the bedroom? Breaking the dressers? Piling your clothes on the floor? Pushing you?
> 
> ...


Kids are college age and two of them still live with us (Hers but have taken them on as my own because I love them)

I feel a lot will be lost but nothing tangible. We have separate accounts, the house is hers though she has told me paper or not, it is mine, too. What will be lost is my best friend and life long partner. It's sad but I would eventually get over it.

An IC in order to get to the root of why you were attracted to, and tolerated, this type of person/relationship is definitely in order.


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## TheCatfish (Jan 3, 2014)

ThreeStrikes said:


> No.
> 
> Codependent people tolerate and enable disordered manipulators.
> 
> Codependent people became that way early on in their lives. This is why IC is so important. To get to the root of it.


I am definitely a co-dependant here and probably always have been. I left my one marriage because my wife wouldn't stop drinking the alcohol I was buying for her. <----see - How ridiculous is that statement, yet its true.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

I get what you guys are saying. 

I think when two people are in a volatile relationship and one of them is a abusive, manipulative, and possibly mentally disordered, they can help promote codependent tendencies in their partner. It becomes codependent giver and taker. When the partner starts believing the relationship is more important than happiness itself, codependency is reached.

Anyone can test this by asking themselves, why did I put up with that?

If you wouldn't have tolerated it when you were dating, you shouldn't put up with it in marriage. But the mask comes off after marriage. Only when you become Plan B does the truth self reveal themselves.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

TheCatfish said:


> Kids are college age and two of them still live with us (Hers but have taken them on as my own because I love them)
> 
> I feel a lot will be lost but nothing tangible. We have separate accounts, the house is hers though she has told me paper or not, it is mine, too. * What will be lost is my best friend and life long partner. * It's sad but I would eventually get over it.
> 
> An IC in order to get to the root of why you were attracted to, and tolerated, this type of person/relationship is definitely in order.


With friends like that, who needs enemies...eh?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Pictureless said:


> I get what you guys are saying.
> 
> I think when two people are in a volatile relationship and one of them is a abusive, manipulative, and possibly mentally disordered, they can help promote codependent tendencies in their partner.


You cannot promote what does not exist.


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## GTdad (Aug 15, 2011)

2galsmom said:


> Don't cloud this into a gender war Conrad, I will not start one, war is not the answer. Catfish was told to "man up" and get the "torpedoes" going, do you want me to call out the poster that did that with good intentions? What is the point. You can go back and read the posts.


To be clear, by "damn the torpedoes" I was referring to the ones he'd inevitably face from his wife if he stopped allowing himself to be abused. It's an old Civil War naval reference. 

The only "torpedo" I'd suggest the OP launch would come in the form of a divorce petition.

Edit: Now that I see he isn't even married to her, the solution appears pretty obvious and won't involve torpedos at all. Just packing.


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