# Should I leave at her request or make HER do it?



## Lenny123

My story is so similar to many others I have read on here. Wife first asked for divorce a year ago. We did MC for about 8 sessions. Got to point where she said that I became the person she needed me to be, BUT she couldn't get over resentment/anger from our past. 

Now after a year of "trying" she's really done. Not willing to try again. Tired of trying. Need to stop the madness, etc.

Yes, like many others, I suspect there's another man. I actually found text and phone records indicating she received a Valentine's gift from someone at work, and that she's been texting calling him ALOT. Several times a day - certainly seems like an affair. Of course she say's it's just a friend/flirting thing and never got to the point of sex/dating. Admitted it was inappropriate, and maybe headed toward sex. Normally I would believe her, but everything I did find out, she lied to my face until I showed her proof. I don't know if I can ever believe anything she says now.

She has said that she doesn't love me anymore and in fact hates me. We have two young children. Been married 11 years. After the blowup of telling her I knew about the other man, she eventually calmed down and said she needed some time to think about it ( I asked her to try again to save the marriage, even after the other man) After 3 days, she was done thinking, really wants divorce. I assume she's still seeing the other man, even though she says it stopped (Remember, lies to my face lately).

She wants me to move out, maybe for good , maybe for trial separation. She's careful to say "trial" doesn't mean to give me false hope.

My question is this: She wants divorce, I don't. Should I go, or refuse and tell her if she wants out, *she* can move out. The kids would no doubt be better off with her. She may or may not take them if she moves, who knows. She really has nowhere to go, maybe stay with a friend, but probably not with the kids. 

I don't want to leave my family! I don't want my children to see me as the one leaving, when she's the one that wants out. I'd rather be with my kids, than alone in some ****ty apartment. Also, the kids like their school and neighborhood and friends. I would hate for them to be uprooted if she takes them. If she doesn't take them immediately, she would surely do it when practical. We rent a house, don't own much. Both work. 

Actually being friendly and civil now because she thinks I'm gonna move out soon. She wants to be friends and such for the kids.She will get very angry if I tell her I'm not leaving. She would probably pack and leave in heat of the moment. That almost happened the day I confronted her about the other man, cause I said I'm not leaving.

*Should I go quietly or tell her she can leave if she wants out so bad.* What are the pros and cons of each course of action??


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## Lon

DO NOT GO QUIETLY

the end of my marriage, due in large part infidelity but moreso because she was done and checked out, went down exactly like you said yours is.

If she is checked out and done, as you are finding out, there is nothing you can do to change her mind it is all up to her. However before you give in and start doing the 180 that people should be telling you to do soon, first do what you can to bust up her affair because 1) she is a married woman behaving inappropriately and is so wrong for thinking this will make things easier for her 2) while she is in an affair and the fog of that affair nothing you can do will win her back or make her think you are a good option so your only duty right now is to spy, snooop, dig and investigate to get as much info as you can and this is urgent, don't dwell on the details just get them so you know the extent and have proof to back up the claims you will be confronting her with. Do not confront before you have all the info you can get or else she will just trickle truth you. Once you have the info expose it to anyone who will be affected or have an effect on her - expose to her family and friends, your family and most importantly if you can find out who the OM's SO is, expose to her and compare notes.

Make her affair as difficult as you can, make everything about her affair because that is what is fueling everything in her mind right now. Once it is busted up it will probably take atleast a month or so for her to get over the OM and out of the fog, depending on how long this has lasted. If you get to that point and she is remorseful you may have a shot at reconciling, but to be truthful from what I have learned and seen in real life and from stories on this fourm and others, it is pretty slim chances for your marriage to be saved.

After you bust up the affair, when your W says she hates you and wants no part is when its time for the 180. Meanwhile, if you like your home DO NOT LEAVE, if you want to be a part of your children's life everyday DO NOT LEAVE THEM OR LET HER TAKE THEM AWAY, if you like your marital bed DO NOT LEAVE IT. Right now look up a lawyer and make an appointment for tomorrow to start the separation agreement, and in it be uncompromising to what you want, if she wants to contest you it may get expensive but cheap compared to what you would lose by letting her take everything away from you.

It may likely be that what you want (what is best for your kids) is also what she wants and you may find some amicability, that is what happened for me, even though she has remained selfish and unremorseful. Atleast we can still coparent, and I am happier now that I have my son 50%, but I also know that she is able to provide love and a warm home for him when he's not with me.

If you simply leave you are handing over all your power and will have basically signed your divorce decree.


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## Jayb

I'm torn on this. I moved out for financial reasons, but regret it, now. 

I know what you're going through. If she is dtermined to go, stand your ground. But, put the children first and offer reasons and support for them staying with you.

I used to fear that my W would say that I was the one who left (when I didn't want to go), and make me the bad guy. But, she reassured me, and, I believed her and let it go.

Just be calm, and have back up plans. Be logical and don't make decisions out of emotions.

Be there and support your children as much as possible.


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## Lenny123

Some of my own thoughts on pros and cons:

*If I leave because she wants me to:*
_Pros:_
~She will have a harder time with her new social life due to responsibilities of having custody
~I will have more free time for a new social life
~Being forced to become more independent would probably be good for me - my whole world revolves around the wife and kids
~Our kids are very taxing and frustrating at times-Some "me" time might be a good thing-I could have time to work on improving myself
~She will hate me less and MAYBE be open to reconciliation at some point
~The kids would be better off with mom than with me
~Again, the kids-She would be furious if I refuse to leave. Friendly amicable separation would be out of the question. There would be considerable drama and chaos on top of the actual separation. I don't want to put the kids through that, or go through it myself. When I first confronted her about OM, she got REALLY mean and actually broke a bunch of stuff in the house.

_Cons:_
~I would have to actually accept it and pack up and leave. I still can't believe that this might really be happening. The thought of leaving my family is devastating to me. When I'm convinced that she's serious (I go back and forth with denial and grief) I have seriously thought about suicide.
~I would be agreeing to separation/divorce. This is counter intuitive to me. I don't agree. It's the last thing in the world that I want to do. I want to fight for my marriage and family.
~I would be very sad and lonely by myself. 
~I don't want my kids to see me as the one who left. Even if we tell them it's best for everyone, they will always remember that* I* left, not mommy. I can't tell them the truth about her, they're too young.
~Financially, it would be terrible. We barely get by as it is. I would have to give up around half of my take home pay for child support and still live on my own somehow. I would be EXTREMELY poor, and living in total squalor.


*If I refuse to leave and she leaves instead:*
_Pros:_
~I will be with my kids rather than sad and lonely (she would eventually take them, when it was practical for her)
~I like my house, I would be forced to live VERY modestly if I leave
~I would not be agreeing to her madness
~She might not do it. She might just stay and be forced to try some more to fix it, because of all the same reasons it would suck for ME to leave, it would also suck for her if she had to leave*(this might be the biggest pro, probably the real reason I'm considering staying)* We've been here many times before, with her wanting out and me trying to save it. She has always caved in and stayed in the past-Always tried to work it out. I really think that if I force her hand and tell her to go ahead and leave herself, she might not do it.
~The kids will see the real picture-mom chose to leave and destroy our family, not me

_Cons:_
~She will go bananas. She will break things, scream, probably hit me. She will hate me more than she ever has before. If she actually leaves, there will be *no chance* of reconciliation.
~If she does leave, she will have much free time to pursue her new social life. I hate to make it convenient for her to date other men
~The kids would probably rather be with her, if they were forced to choose
~The kids take up all of my time and energy. It would be difficult to work on improving myself, or pursuing a new life
~When she was ready to take them, they would be uprooted from school, friends, etc. It really would be best for them if they could stay here

Anyone else have any input? I read online that I should speak to a lawyer before agreeing to leave. Abandoning the house/family could have legal ramifications in a divorce procedure. 

She mentioned legal separation because both parties don't have to sign, she could file it, and I would be served by the court. She brought this up because she knows that I probably wouldn't sign divorce papers.However, I just found out that our state is one of the few that doesn't recognize legal separation. If I refuse to sign divorce papers, we have to be separated for 2 years before she can get a divorce without my consent.

I really don't know what to do, and I told her all of this today. Told her legal separation isn't an option and it would take two years if I don't consent. Told her that I'm not sure if I should go, or refuse. Told her we really need to be sure, before we tell the kids and actually do it. She had no response at all, just sat there staring into space, and said she had to go to sleep.

I would really appreciate any advice that any of you can offer.
Thanks.


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## SunnyT

You don't HAVE to move out, and you don't HAVE to get a divorce. 

You NEED to see an attorney. Not to start a divorce, but to get advice, to KNOW what your rights are, and to figure out the best move for you and the kids.


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## hisfac

You're in a tough spot, no doubt about it. 

There's no winning here, there's only losing with the least amount of damage. Problem is ultimately in a divorce she'd probably get custody and exclusive use of the marital residence whether you agree to it or not, so my thought is that if you can accept the marriage is over and it certainly sounds like it.. then it just might be time to accept your fate and get on with it rather than live in what will seem to be nothing more than eternal conflict. 

Yes she's probably cheating and yes you'll make it easier for her if you just pack up and leave but she's emotionally gone anyway, it's not going to make it any easier on you if you escalate the conflict by perpetuating a bad marriage. 

If you remove the kids from the equation for the moment, then it gets easier. You divorce and go your own way with a minimum of fuss and that's it. But now you have to make sure the kids get through it with a minimum of collateral damage, it's not their fight, they didn't ask for this, they're young and very impressionable.

So you have to make it about them, it's the responsible thing to do, and that means some self sacrifice. You already said they're better off with her as the primary caregiver and that's pretty much sealing the deal right there. 

I'm sorry but it looks like you're going to have to make a graceful exit on this one.

My only other thought is that you can use her urgency to get you out as leverage in drafting a separation agreement. Tell her you'll move out pursuant to a separation agreement that spells out everything from visitation, to support, to asset distribution and make it very favorable to yourself. You can always give the kids more, over and above court ordered support, but once it's sealed it's pretty difficult to change it so you can give her less.


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## CH

She wants out, she leaves the house. Pretty simple, so she wants you out so she can bring over hew new man to meet the kids then?


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## Lon

IMO, you got your reasons for leaving all backwards... its your fear of abandonment that makes you want to be the doormat and keep playing nice. But you may not realize it is that doormat behavior that she probably hates and is repulsed by. By being the doormat the only question left about her leaving is whether she has enough integrity to be kind enough to not take complete advantage of you, steal your kids, break your things and take more than her share of the assets, or whether she would be exploitive and take advantage of the things you seem so willing to offer (reconciliation, all the benefits of a good supporter while she has the freedom to go fvck other men) while pretending to reconcile while taking her affairs underground and rug sweeping.

Seriously, if she is breaking stuff then make sure to keep a record so you can deduct the replacement cost from her share of the marital property when you divide it up in the separation agreement.

Personally I think all the pro arguments for letting her be the one to leave are spot on, their really is no choice. Further, if you hope for reconciliation then I see being the strong man that is not willing to put up with her BS as the only option you have to ever win her attraction back. Do the 180 and when you are ready you will probably realize how unworthy she even is unless she is able to show some real remorse for how she has treated her marriage and her family, and willing to do a ton of heavy lifting for a long time to come. You really need to start putting yourself first for once, that's what your kids need - atleast one strong parent.


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## Lenny123

hisfac,
That seems like very sound advice. The thing is, I really haven't accepted that it's over. I desperately want it to not be over. Like I said, we've been here many times before, and we're still together. Obviously, I can't improve the relationship if she has no interest in doing so. I just keep clinging to hope that she will see how crazy this is and try one more time.

However, like I said, it's hard to argue with your logic. I just need to make sure it's really over before I make a graceful exit. I told her yesterday that if she wanted me to leave so badly, just show me proof that she has been lying for the last two weeks and is still involved with the other guy. Just slap me in the face with the reality of how bad our situation is, and I'll leave immediately and never look back. She said she hasn't talked to him since I confronted her about two weeks ago. Then she jokingly said "Is that all I have to do? So I should go and drum up some phone numbers from guys at work to convince you that I'm really done with this marriage?" She has a great sense of humor.


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## Lenny123

Lon,
I'm new here and keep seeing "Do the 180" in various threads. What is this? Is there a book or website I should be reading?

You definitely make some sense. She actually said last year in MC that if I didn't care what she did, she would be happy with me. Said I was being too needy and clingy. Seemed like a normal reaction for me since she was trying to leave me. I was way more needy once she told me she wanted out. She hates it when I cry. I can't blame her-It's pretty pathetic.

This time, I more used to the insanity, and better equipped to handle the rejection/shock. I've been on antidepressants since the last time a year ago. That's probably helping too. So this time, no real crying or begging her to change her mind. Much more like, "ok, you cheated on me, so you're right, I should leave." 

A big part of me feels like I can't possibly have any self respect if I don't leave, or tell her to leave. (she still says she didn't cheat, but whatever, emotional friend at the very least. Just as bad really) 

However, self respect has never been one of my strong points, especially when it come to my marriage and her trying to leave me. We were together 10 years before marriage. During that time, she left me probably 5 different times. Once for 1.5 years. She called me 3 months after leaving to tell me she was pregnant, in love, and living with the guy. After she gave the kid up for adoption and the thing with the guy fell apart, I didn't hesitate to take her back and tell her how i prayed for her return every single day she was gone. Another time, a few years before we married, I found out she was having an affair for like a month 9we lived together at the time) She said she was sorry and felt bad about it. No problem, I love you and need you. Just please don't do that again. So yeah, maybe it is time for me to act like a man. She probably has no respect for me at all. How could she?


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## EleGirl

Lenny,

You are looking at this all wrong. 

First you need to do the work to determine how deep this affair is. Check her texts on phone, her emails, Facebook, etc. A voice activated recorder (VAR) in her car (well hidden and secured w/Velcro) is another good way to get proof of an affair.

One you have the evidence expose the affair to her family, your family and anyone else you can think of. Ask these people if they would please help by encouraging her to end the affair and work on the marriage. If the other man is married or has a girlfriend tell you about the affair and give her the strongest evidence you have. 

You should not leave the family home. It can look to the court like you have abandoned your family. Neither you nor your wife can move your children from the family home without the other’s permission. So do not give her permission to take the children.

While her moving out by herself will give her move time to pursue another relationship, this usually the death toll for affairs. Affairs are not based on reality… only about 3% of them survive exposer and the extra pressure of the WS depending of their OM/OW for all of their emotional needs. Having her leave the house after exposure is the fastest way there is to break up an affair.

If the OM is married, he will be too busy trying to save his own marriage and often will kick the WS to the curb.

See an attorney before exposing the affair and telling your wife that you are not moving out. Remember that even if a divorce is filed, it can be stopped at any time before it is final. And you can even get re-married after its final. You say that your wife has been using these threats on and off for years. Doing this will show her that you are not her punching bag. She will finally take you seriously. If you do get back together, she will most likely never use these threats again. Ask about your rights, a 50/50 custody plan and what you need to prevent your wife from removing the children from the family home.

Tell her that you have decided to not move out of the family home because you will not abandon your children. If she wants to move out, then she is free to do so, but without the children. 

If your wife moves out, have the attorney draw up divorce papers with a temporary 50/50 custody plan and a statement that the children cannot be removed from the family home, and a statement that neither of you will have your children around a lover or love interest for at a couple of years at least. Have her served ASAP. This will get her head spinning. You can tell her that the divorce can be called off at any time if she chooses to work on the marriage. You can even prolong the divorce to last 2, 3 years if you want to give you two time to work through all of this. I have seen men who use this strategy end up getting child support from the wife who moved out. 


If she goes nuts like you say she will… with yelling, hitting things, breaking things be prepared. This is called physical spousal abuse… if she has been doing this then she is a spouse abuser. Have that VAR on when you talk to her and get her yelling, etc on tape. Even go for a hidden camera to show that she is breaking things, hitting you, etc. Whatever you do, do not raise a hand to her, not even to stop her blows. Why the VAR and the video recorder? Because you need to call the police. When the police get there and you tell them what she is doing, she might accuse you. They are more likely to believe that you have been abusing her… so you will have the evidence you need to show what she is doing. The police will remove her from the home and you can get a restraining order so that she cannot come near you, the children or your home until she gets some anger management classes and takes are of her issues.

Does your wife abuse your children physically as well? She should not have the children if she is a physical abuser.

So far you have described her as a spouse abuser.. she emotionally abuses you with treats of leaving, saying that she hates you. When angry she breaks things, hits you, etc. I would not be surprised if she treats the children the same way. She is also cheating. Exactly why do you want her back? Just wondering…. Why do you want to live with someone who uses threats of violence to get you go do what she wants? Just because she is a woman, it does not mean that she cannot hurt you. I know a woman who accidently killed her husband by hitting him in the head with a telephone during a fight like the ones you describe. Why do you expose your children to this abuse?

So to recap… get the evidence.. see an attorney… expose the affair… refuse to move out and tell your wife that she is welcome to move out without the children.


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## EleGirl

See the link to the 180 in my signature block below. 

Definately do this if she moves out. But I would give it a week or so while you gather more evidence of an affair.


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## EleGirl

Lenny123 said:


> A big part of me feels like I can't possibly have any self respect if I don't leave, or tell her to leave. (she still says she didn't cheat, but whatever, emotional friend at the very least. Just as bad really)


I totally disagree with this. If you leave, you are doing her bidding. You are leaving her with everything and you leave, tail between your legs, and lose everything. It will be harder for you to get 50/50 custody of your children. You will be paying child support and maybe even alimony. You are the bad buy.. she can tell everyone that you abandoned her and the children… see what a bad guy you are. And in her head she knows that she drove you out. How is this getting your self respect.

Standing by your home and your children, telling her to leave if that’s her choice… that’s how you get and keep your self-respect.


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## dubbizle

You wife does not want you, so just say it slowly,your wife does not want to be with YOU.Why would you want to be with a woman that is going to resent you if you do mange to stop the affair.
You need to tell her to go out and FIND YOU a place to live if she wants you out so bad and leave the kids with her,because that will definitely cool down have social life. You need to go talk to a lawyer and learn how to protect yourself [ASAP] because she may be already planning and you will come home to a house with locks changed or not be able to get into your bank account.


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## EleGirl

Lenny, do not leave your home and our children without talking to an attorney first. It's a huge mistake to leave. 

Leaving her with the children will not cool her social life, she will just bring the lover around your children. Cooling her social life is not a reason for abandoning your children.

She cannot change the locks on the house legally. By law, neither spouse can be denied access and living in the family home until there is a court order for one to move out. The court order is usually given once the divorce is final. Many couples live together.. sometimes in seperate rooms, during the dirvorce process until the move out order is signed by the judge. 

If you have any joint banking accounts, open a new account in our name only... transfer half of the funds from joint accounts to your new accounts. Also change so that any direct deposits from you job, etc, go to your new account.


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## Halien

I think it would be crazy to just pack up and leave. You say that you would like to save the marriage, but you are acting like you want to give it away and run away from the kids, in my opinion.

I think she is using her hate to force you into a specific action, knowing that you will bow down. There is a completely different tact that will actually make you out to be the one who is trying to save the marriage, provide for the kids, and appear to be the ONLY sane one here.

First, see a lawyer. Don't even suggest that you are considering abandoning your children just to placate your wife.

Second - do you realize how it makes her sound when you say that the woman you married actually HATES you? My opinion is that her tantrums and hate can become your biggest ally in shaking her into a sense of reality. If necessary, let her know that you are speaking to a lawyer about the safety of YOUR children under the care of a woman who has lost control over her harmful emotions. Pursue her AFFAIR. Speak of it as an AFFAIR, and her challenged emotional state. She is the one who is unfit to be around your children in her state. Your constant motto should be that you are the only level headed one. If she wants to leave, she must do so alone. Cut off her access to any of your funds. When you talk about how hard it will be on you if you give in to her affair fog, remember that it will be just as hard on her, or more so, especially since she is the unbalanced one now. It might even force her to take an action on her affair, further abandoning her children (I'm spelling it out this way to suggest that you should start seeing and talking to her in the terms of her affair and her abandonment of the family, in her current 'emotional state).

My real point here is that if you appear unflappable by her extreme state, you'll actually begin putting her on the defensive instead of the offensive. She'll see that you aren't the easy mark she always made you out to be. Hunger and a life of poverty have a radical effect on a person's illusions that they maintain once they start dreaming of escaping into a new life with a new lover.

Be the sane one here. The mature one who is fighting for your family. And, be the one who is protecting your children from her unbalanced state. I think that this alpha confidence might be your only chance of salvaging anything out of the situation, if you handle it very carefully, and with the consultation of a lawyer.

Unless the lawyer advises against it, I would recommend pulling out a VAR, a recorder, when you inform her that you will not leave since you are afraid that she'll go ballistic. I think she needs to see that you are taking this extreme unbalanced state very seriously. Even tell her that such reactions make her unfit to be the sole guardian of your children.


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## dubbizle

First off every state has different laws,so we don't know what he can do or cannot do so go talk to your lawyer.


He is not abandoning his kids he is just going to live some place else and they will know where he is at,so its not abandoning if he decides to do it . 

I think of marriage as two people that want to BE TOGETHER,not one that wants to be and the other who hates them so if she wants to go let her go and get your life together then find somebody that really wants to be with you.


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## Halien

dubbizle said:


> First off every state has different laws,so we don't know what he can do or cannot do so go talk to your lawyer.
> 
> 
> He is not abandoning his kids he is just going to live some place else and they will know where he is at,so its not abandoning if he decides to do it .
> 
> I think of marriage as two people that want to BE TOGETHER,not one that wants to be and the other who hates them so if she wants to go let her go and get your life together then find somebody that really wants to be with you.


In my state, if one parent leaves the children, it is construed as intent to yield custody. That's why I stressed seeing a lawyer. But that does not have anything to do with the way the OP addresses his wife. He is currently addressing her as a person who is making logical decisions, or at least he is afraid to address her because he is afraid. She will respond differently if he sees it for what it is, and addresses her as a woman who is under the fog of an affair, and that this has impaired her judgement. She will address the situation one way if her husband bends to every whim, but another way if he maintains a clear, unphazed attitude. In almost every state, a judge will respond differently if words like "hate" are used in the absence of physical threat, or if a parent responds in a tantrum, losing control when the children are in the same residence.

Really, though, I am trying to suggest that the dynamics within the way you treat the other person can impact their response in many cases. If a guy is basically a nice guy type in the way he behaves when around his wife, then when she begins to consider an exit affair, being more of a nice guy just plain won't work. The affair partner isn't being a nice guy, and so this is the attraction signal that she respects at the time. Letting her know through the tone that she is being childish, immature and not a good role model to the children will really make it hard for her to look downward at him, as if he is someone to be placated until she can arrange things so that she can be with a real man (in her slanted way of viewing it).


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## Toffer

Agree with all others....You do NOT leave! She's the one who has admitted to an "inappropriate" relationship (BTW, I'm willing to bet they've slept together already) She wants to be away from you so SHE should leave the martial home!

Not sure when the last time was you had relations with your wife but you may want to get tested for STDs

As others have told you, EXPOSE the affair to everyone, especially if the OM is married or has a GF. Expose to his family and her family pointing out that this man (married or not) has taken up with a married woman. Do not tyell her you're going to do it.

Good luck but I'm afraid this is a done deal


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## Toffer

Also, get a voice activated recorder or two (VARs). Keep one on you (concealed in a pocket?) at all times when you're with your wife. If the freaks out and starts breaking stuff and screaming, record it! It may not be admissable but it can't hurt especially if she tries to pull some BS with the cops claiming you hit her in order to have you removed from the house


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## hisfac

Toffer said:


> Also, get a voice activated recorder or two (VARs). Keep one on you (concealed in a pocket?) at all times when you're with your wife. If the freaks out and starts breaking stuff and screaming, record it! It may not be admissable but it can't hurt especially if she tries to pull some BS with the cops claiming you hit her in order to have you removed from the house


This sort of stuff happens all the time. I speak from personal experience on this one. If she wants you out bad enough, and she spends enough time at the family courts around battered, abused, manhating jilted women, they're going to get in her ear and start giving her ideas to get rid of you by using a legal tool originally designed to protect women from abusive guys but now used to gain an upper hand early in a divorce.

Like I said, I would consider moving out only after a separation agreement is drafted, signed and sealed that spells out everything nice and clearly in a way that is favorable to the Op.

Unfortunately in situations like these, the husband usually has to relocate, especially when he's as much as said the kids are better off with the mom, so don't sit around and wait for it to happen, be proactive and get all the ducks lined up, but at the same time I agree don't just turn tail and walk out the door.

Besides, he needs more time to come to grips with the situation, these legal separation agreements take time and at least things are moving in the direction the wife wants them to go and he'll save himself a ton of money by avoiding a highly litigated divorce.

If you do nothing the hostilities are going to rapidly escalate and your home is going to become a war zone.

You cannot sit on this one.


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## Lenny123

I'm going to find out for sure if she's still lying and seeing the other man. I have a VAR to put in her car. I'm going to get a GPS tracker too. Does anyone have any suggestions on a particular one to get?

Ultimately, I want to get into her phone records, but I don't know if I can. Since she started cheating, she put a password on her phone (that was my first clue that she was cheating-turned out to be correct!) She also changed the password on her cell phone online account, where you can see call and text history (that's how I saw the calls/texts in the first place, since I confronted her, she changed that password)

She only uses her own laptop, never the home pc. I have a key logger on hers, but she changed her password on the laptop to one that I can't crack. I have a program that can crack simple windows passwords, but she must have changed it to one with special characters, because my program can no longer crack it. My keylogger doesn't send me the info, I have to get in her computer to view it. It used to work great, until she beefed up the password. Anyone have any advice on this issue?

The phone records will give me proof for sure. I just don't know if I'll be able to ever se them again. All I have right night now is VAR and soon GPS on the car. Anything else I could do that I haven't thought of.

I'm starting to feel like I don't have any reason to want her at this point. She lied and had an affair, probably still having one. I just want to know for sure if she's still lying. If so, I'm 99.9% sure that I will leave and move on. The kids will be fine with her. Despite what I said about her anger, she's good with the kids, just not with me when I catch her lying! 

If I don't leave and tell her to feel free to do so, I'm 99.9% sure she would stay. It would be almost impossible for her, financially, to leave. Also, I don't think she woulld leave without the kids. *Someone here said she can't take the kids from our home without my consent. Are you sure about this? I couldn't find info online.*

Right now, niether one of us can afford a lawyer. If she is *not* still lying to me, I will have to decide if I should leave or not. Like I said, she probably won't leave. However, if we both stayu put, things might just continue to crappy and full of mistrust. She would have to have some interest in fixing the marriage. I don't even know if I do at this point. She has made it clear that she does not.

*Thank you everyone for all the help! I really appreciate it.*


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## EleGirl

"Someone here said she can't take the kids from our home without my consent. Are you sure about this? I couldn't find info online."

Yes this is true.. but you would have to be willing to hire an attorney to inforce it and the court to order her to return the kids to your home.

Use the VAR for a few days. Do check the laws in your state for recording conversations.

So it sonds like neither of you will be able to live very well without the financial help of the other. You might want to have a serious talk with her about the financial aspects of what she is doing.

If you are hell bent on leaving the children with her then I agree you should be the one who moves out of the family home because your children should not be uprooted. They are the first concern in all of this.


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## Lon

> If I don't leave and tell her to feel free to do so, I'm 99.9% sure she would stay. It would be almost impossible for her, financially, to leave. Also, I don't think she woulld leave without the kids.


Well what does she expect separation/divorce is all about? A free ride for her? Whether you choose to leave or stay, her financial obligations are the same, she will still need to support herself, provide food clothing and shelter fo herself and her children... if she can't afford her own place how does she expect to afford the house? Are you planning on just keeping providing for her forever?


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## Halien

In most of the larger states, you can buy a book online about divorce written by a divorce attorney in your state. These will have more specific details than you can usually find online, along with state-specific avenues that may exist for protecting your children and your income. My wife and I briefly discussed divorce, and I found the book very helpful. It even had a CD with sample copies of some of the forms for viewing.


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## Lenny123

Lon said:


> Well what does she expect separation/divorce is all about? A free ride for her? Whether you choose to leave or stay, her financial obligations are the same, she will still need to support herself, provide food clothing and shelter fo herself and her children... if she can't afford her own place how does she expect to afford the house? Are you planning on just keeping providing for her forever?


Lon,
We looked at a state specific, online child support calculator. It's run by the state, so I assume it's fairly accurate. After inputting all the bills and both incomes, it said that I would have to give her more than either of us expected. I told her at the time that I would pay what it says, to avoid a battle in court, also because I want the kids to be ok.

When we were talking divorce a year ago, I mentioned maybe she should be the one to leave, since she wants out and I don't. Her response was "No way, then I would be paying you child support!" 

The amount I would be paying her would allow her to stay in the house with the kids and get by. I, on the other hand would have to find a place to rent for about $700 including utilities. This would not be easy in the area where I live. I would;d definitely be in a studio/efficiency at best. More likely, I might have to just rent a room from someone. For various reasons that I won't go into, she and I are both on the verge of making more money soon - maybe 6-9 months. So, I guess the child support would change at some point in the near future. But for now, yes, I would be supporting her basically. I seriously doubt that she would rent a room and give me half of her income for child support. Of course, she has no problem with telling me to do that.

I don't even know what to think at this point. I really need to find out for sure if she's still cheating on me. If so, I think I'm just gonna walk away and move on with my life. If she's not lying anymore, I just don't know...Still might be beyond repair.


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## hisfac

Lenny123 said:


> I don't even know what to think at this point. I really need to find out for sure if she's still cheating on me. If so, I think I'm just gonna walk away and move on with my life. If she's not lying anymore, I just don't know...Still might be beyond repair.


I don't think it matters what you find out about her cheating on you or not.

She did cheat, she's not remorseful, she's beefed up her passwords and locked you out of her phone and her computer, and she wants a divorce and you out of the house ASAP.

There's nothing left here for you but damage control and figuring out the best way to handle the demise of your marriage. 

Like I said ultimately if you go the litigation route the courts are most likely going to give her occupancy of the marital residence and sole custody so you're better off negotiating something more favorable now, start looking into possible places to live, and stop chasing your tail trying to find out if she's still having an affair because that's irrelevant at this point.


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## Lenny123

hisfac said:


> I don't think it matters what you find out about her cheating on you or not.
> 
> She did cheat, she's not remorseful, she's beefed up her passwords and locked you out of her phone and her computer, and she wants a divorce and you out of the house ASAP.
> 
> There's nothing left here for you but damage control and figuring out the best way to handle the demise of your marriage.
> 
> Like I said ultimately if you go the litigation route the courts are most likely going to give her occupancy of the marital residence and sole custody so you're better off negotiating something more favorable now, start looking into possible places to live, and stop chasing your tail trying to find out if she's still having an affair because that's irrelevant at this point.


You are probably correct. I guess it's still hard for me to accept it and move on. I am getting there, little more every day. It doesn't help any that she's being nice and almost acting as if none of this ever happened. I guess that just because she thinks I'm getting ready to move out and let it go.


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## hisfac

Lenny123 said:


> I guess that just because she thinks I'm getting ready to move out and let it go.


You'll find out soon enough.

It's sort of like looking out over the calm ocean waiting for that rogue wave knowing its going to happen just not knowing when.

Batten down the hatches, you're in for some rough weather ahead.

Like I said, always better to be proactive, I still say your next move is to sit down with her and draft up a favorable separation agreement in exchange for you finding somewhere to go, that clearly spells out the conditions of the separation and ultimate divorce in a way that is very favorable to you in terms of custody, visitation, spousal and child support, and asset/ personal property distribution. I suppose it could be worded in such a way that she is the plaintiff and there's something in there about "in consideration of the wife's wishes to divorce".. or "due to infidelity and abandonment on the part of the wife".. that way you've got it in writing and some day you can show the kids that it was all mom's fault that things crashed and burned.. 

You'll need to sit with an attorney to get it "court legal" but a couple of hours of attorney time is a fraction of the cost of a litigated divorce and like I said you've got the negotiating edge because she wants this more than you do.

Or, do nothing and wait.. I don't suggest going this route for all the reasons I've previously stated.


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## Lon

Lenny, it sounds to me that you just don't want to be a custodial parent, that you think your kids are better off under her care, with your support and standard visitation. And you know what, that is ok, parenting is hard work, even if its only 50% because that is 50% of the time that you are a single dad, and it is very gruelling - I know first hand. I don't think anyone has the right to judge you if you don't want to be the hands on parent so long as your children are getting the care and love they need. Just don't complain about being in the passenger seat of your children's lives when their mother makes decisions you disapprove of, because you are conceeding that power by not fighting for custodial privileges.

With that decision obviously comes financial obligation too and you seem ok with that, so then maybe you really don't have a problem - just leave, pay her what the state says and like hisfac, I don't think its even worth it for you to find out more about the affair she is in because she is telling you she is done and checked out anyway. Just remember, her decision to end the marriage and her decision to cheat is all on her, there is nothing you did or didn't do to cause those to happen, the fact that she chose to quit instead of work through all the imperfections means she took away the chance for you to fix those together so have no shame or guilt, just go about living life for you donig the things you know to be right, and cherish your kids giving them as much attention as you can under whatever circumstances you know to be best for them.


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## AlterEgoist

Hey Lenny, I just want to let you know that I'm going through something similar, only that in my situation that I have no kids. I posted a thread myself in the Going Through Divorce or Separation.

You seem to ask the right questions, I hope you'll find what you're looking for.


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