# How long did you try to R before deciding to divorce?



## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

Were going to be coming up on 3 years since Dday. Been in R all along. Full speed in the beginning and then settled back into a more regular family life. My heart still hurts though. I still question if I did the right thing by staying together. He has shown remorse and seems to have changed his ways but in general I get the feeling that "its all in the past" for him but still so present for me. He gets upset if I bring it up, so I don't.

Has anyone stayed on the R path for a long time and ended up with a D anyway?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Two-ish years


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## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

During those 2 years was the R going well or was there continued betrayal ? What were the factors that made you change your mind from working on R to then going for the D?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

There was a little bit of everything.
Because we were going for Hollywood style. 
We succeeded.

The D happened because limbo was getting ridiculous. That was 3 yrs ago. We just went out for drinks the other day and still keep in touch.

Because. We're so Hollywood. I guess. LOL.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

I have been in R for about two years myself. I think about D all the time but with kids and not enough money to support two homes it would be hard.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I was in False R for nearly 3 years before I filed. R was very rocky, my ex was never really on board. It just took me a long time to realize that what he was saying to me and what he was actually doing when I wasn't around were not matching up. And that there was nothing I could do, alone, to change that. 

I had decided that I was making one last-ditch effort at R, with a new marriage counselor, and going to give it another 6 months. Well before the 6 months was up, the new MC recommended a polygraph, my ex did the last-minute-pre-polygraph confession thing and I suddenly found out that he had been cheating off and on for at least 14 years. Learning he was a serial cheater, and always had been, was the end for me. Our divorce was final 10 weeks later.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Op, 

We've been trying to come to term with what to do ourselves. Dday will be May, 3 years out. Toughest road I have ever been on. 

I keep hoping if I wait long enough I will be one of those couples that say it got better after x amount of years...

~ sammy


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

5 yrs. Then he was on his way to cheating again and thats when I decided to divorce. 

Serial cheaters never change. Not sure if your WS is a serial cheater?


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## still so sad (May 27, 2013)

I don't believe that he is is serial cheater but he does admit that his PA was " on and off" for several years before I found out. From what I can tell, it has remained "off" since I discovered and he confessed.


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

still so sad said:


> I don't believe that he is is serial cheater but he does admit that his PA was " on and off" for several years before I found out. From what I can tell, it has remained "off" since I discovered and he confessed.


Did he confess first or did you discover first?

Its really not a good sign that he gets "upset" when you bring it up trying to work through your emotions. Sounds like rugsweeping to me. 

Does he take blame for the affair or still try to put some of the blame on you for his actions? "You didn't do xyz enough for me so felt I had to ......" Anything like that? 

Have you gone to MC? Positive there is NC between him and OW? Sorry I haven't taken the time to read your back story.


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

Been about 7 months for me and my wife. She admitted to a bunch of insane ship years earlier in her past and in our marriage past, 95% of turned out to be bologna. Seven months is probably not long enough to answer your question. I regret staying a little more each day, and I think deep down I'm just getting our finances in order. I don't see us lasting. She looks uglier to me each day.


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Differentguy said:


> Been about 7 months for me and my wife. She admitted to a bunch of insane ship years earlier in her past and in our marriage past, 95% of turned out to be bologna. Seven months is probably not long enough to answer your question. I regret staying a little more each day, and I think deep down I'm just getting our finances in order. I don't see us lasting. *She looks uglier to me each day. *




Is it that the home situation looks "uglier" or is wifey's looks deteriorating rapidly? :scratchhead:


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

Tried to R for 3+ years. She moved out last August. I filed for divorce in December. We even tried to R again while separated. She said she wanted to try to work things out. Was going pretty good until February of this year when I found out she was boinking somebody behind my back. I wasn't heart broken though. It is what I expected of her. She was never truly sorry for what she did, only getting caught. Both times. 

It has to be felt in the gut. The R thing. If you feel it in your gut, you mey be getting somewhere. If you dont feel it, go ahead and file. That means they are only sorry for getting caught and not for what they did. Truth! (atleast in my case lol)


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## Differentguy (Oct 3, 2013)

thummper said:


> [/B]
> 
> Is it that the home situation looks "uglier" or is wifey's looks deteriorating rapidly? :scratchhead:


Home life is fine in general. She looks less and less like someone I want to be with. Maybe sharing too much, but she was giving me a bj the other day and I just had her stop. She just isn't pretty to me any more. It's like her inside "beauty" is quickly overtaking her outside.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

> How long did you try to R before deciding to divorce?


About a month. I tried for my kids' sake, but I just couldn't do it. I couldn't stand looking at her face and knew that would never change.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Differentguy said:


> Home life is fine in general. She looks less and less like someone I want to be with. Maybe sharing too much, but she was giving me a bj the other day and I just had her stop. She just isn't pretty to me any more. It's like her inside "beauty" is quickly overtaking her outside.


So can understand this, it's not that the bs is trying to be hurtful, and its not that the ww isnt trying... It's just everything is so different now... 

~sammy


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

5 years out... still in R? More status quo.... Divorce isn't off the table as a viable choice.


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## thebadguy (Dec 7, 2012)

What a lovely depressing thread. My wife and I are approaching 4 years. D-day anniversary is in a week.

I am originally the WH. Now I think I will end up being the one to file. It just hasn't gotten measurably better in all that time.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Not even a millisecond, I started the divorce on D-Day. Why didn't I consider it? F*** her that's why. I can do better.


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## ClairesDad (Aug 27, 2013)

Dday was in August 2013. WW moved out in November. We tried R, I guess. It was more like rug sweeping on her part. She wanted to bring up other issues in our marriage, but I needed to deal with her PA and her EA(possibly another PA). We are divorcing and moving on. I don't want to try and R, really. I feel that I'll always be looking over my shoulder.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

When i told the BW of the affair (about 3 months after DDay)...the OM came to my office and showed me 12-15 pics (on his phone) of my wife doing sex acts that we so offbase for me she wouldnt talk about them.....His wife since divorced him as well....I did not let my anger go toward because we as BH's want to beat the man to a freakin pulp....But it was my wife of 22 years who CHOSE to become ***** and break our marriage vows....again still have trouble understanding the events that she let herself do really sick S^&T.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

The marriage lasted a year. She was remorseful but oddly entitled, plus the trickle truth was a big issue for us as I'm good at remembering small things and inconsistencies and she isn't.

We are still in a kind of r, but if I leave now the infidelity will only be part of the reason.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

When I learned it was not just an EA but a PA as well.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

badkarma2013 said:


> When i told the BW of the affair (about 3 months after DDay)...the OM came to my office and showed me 12-15 pics (on his phone) of my wife doing sex acts that we so offbase for me she wouldnt talk about them.....His wife since divorced him as well....I did not let my anger go toward because we as BH's want to *beat the man to a freakin pulp*....But it was my wife of 22 years who CHOSE to become ***** and break our marriage vows....again still have trouble understanding the events that she let herself do really sick S^&T.


I would have, just not in person.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

I did ....just in other ways...i exposed the affair,as i stated ,to his wife and family....as a result she left him and destroyed him financially ...i threatened a lawsuit with my wifes company, since he was her superior and they both lost their jobs....

still does not take away my pain and the images dancing in my head.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I knew my marriage was done on DDAY. I did not even consider reconciliation. 

My husband and I had grown apart for many years so I was not crazy in love with him anyway. I don't know if that would have made a difference. 

I am a one strike you're out kind of person. My brother and father are cheaters and they never have any intention of stopping so I am familiar with some of the mind-set. 

I don't believe everyone will re-cheat but it's mostly a loss of respect. 

I would rather build something with someone else if there is that much work to be done.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

I really believe, once one changes partners in a marriage, no matter how good that marriage is, ((unless it is agreed,))no matter how hard one tries, it's nearly impossible to steer back to that harmony the marriage once shared. 

~ sammy


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Rugs said:


> I knew my marriage was done on DDAY. I did not even consider reconciliation.
> 
> My husband and I had grown apart for many years so I was not crazy in love with him anyway. I don't know if that would have made a difference.
> 
> ...


I am with you on that. Sometimes you just know. When I thought my x was just having a mental breakdown I was desperately trying to get her in counseling, us in counseling....anything to figure out why she went from my loving wife to hell on earth seemingly overnight. The moment I cracked the password on her cellphone and read she was having an affair I knew it was over and I would never forgive her. Even if she had been remorseful, and she isn't, I couldn't have ever moved on from that betrayal.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> I am with you on that. Sometimes you just know. When I thought my x was just having a mental breakdown I was desperately trying to get her in counseling, us in counseling....anything to figure out why she went from my loving wife to hell on earth seemingly overnight. The moment I cracked the password on her cellphone and read she was having an affair I knew it was over and I would never forgive her. Even if she had been remorseful, and she isn't, I couldn't have ever moved on from that betrayal.


Sadly, I remember so very well almost 3 years ago next month, the moments when he could finally tell me, after months of me going crazy, wondering what was wrong,...tearing flooding my eyes, & as my heart starts to break, I knew that very moment, my marriage of what was close to 30 years, were over. Remorseful or not, and it is so so cruel and selfish of our partner, our soul mates to love us this way. 

~sammy


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> I'm good at remembering small things and inconsistencies and she isn't.


I hate this because it can cause major fights.



> We are still in a kind of r, but if I leave now the infidelity will only be part of the reason.


You and I are the same. If I find a PA I am out, but it will be the deception that bothers me the most and lack of communicating the problem.


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## Twistedheart (May 17, 2010)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I hate this because it can cause major fights.



My STBXW also had a major issue with "memory recall" throughout our entire marriage. Looking back at all those years I put up with that sh*t I now realize that it isn't and wasn't a memory issue. It is a remarkable ability to minimize, blameshift and gaslight! One of the personality traits I will now be on the lookout for in future relationships.


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## me2pointoh (Jan 31, 2012)

still so sad said:


> Were going to be coming up on 3 years since Dday. Been in R all along. Full speed in the beginning and then settled back into a more regular family life. My heart still hurts though. I still question if I did the right thing by staying together. He has shown remorse and seems to have changed his ways but in general I get the feeling that "its all in the past" for him but still so present for me. He gets upset if I bring it up, so I don't.
> 
> Has anyone stayed on the R path for a long time and ended up with a D anyway?


DDay #1 was June 2011, tried R for just over a year, I knew by fall 2012 he would never put forth the effort to make me feel safe in the marriage and so at that point I agreed to D. Wasn't able to file until a year later. My D is final tomorrow.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

30 years (yes, 30) of R. Then I found evidence he was exchanging emails professing undying love with his affair partner from 30 years ago. I have no idea what really went on during those 30 years. He always denied everything I couldn't prove. I didn't care. I divorced him as I had wanted to do 30 years previously but didn't because our son was only 12 then. Our son, now 42, has said he wishes I had gotten out 30 years ago. So much for the benefits of staying for your child. So am I cynical about R? Pretty much.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

Well she had a 5 week EA in Sept 2013. I don't think it was much of one.
She had caught me on some very negative sites in July 2013 and said nothing. 
So I was about to move out in Jan 2014. She asked me to stay and try on Dec 15th so here we are. 5 months in and working on it.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Chris989 said:


> She was remorseful but oddly entitled, plus the trickle truth was a big issue for us as I'm good at remembering small things and inconsistencies and she isn't.


Mine was remorseful in little windows of collapse and honesty then she'd realize when she was remorseful it just made her look bad in everyone's eyes and so would instantly put back up the "I'm sorry but ...." "you made me....." "if you had ..... " 

And yes still entitled as three other bouts of cheating proved and after the last one Mar 2012 I had her out. Now we await final stages of divorce and she is with om but rockliy! (wanted to come home to me before xmas!! hehe)



Chris989 said:


> We are still in a kind of r, but if I leave now the infidelity will only be part of the reason.


This is the one major stumbling I feel for any reconciliation. Not only are you trying to recover from a treachery, a betrayal of epic proportions but you now struggle with realizing this is not the person you thought they were. After more than one affair it dawns on you that you have had it (them) wrong from the start and THAT is, I found, very very difficult to get past.

With each reconciliation I knew in my heart I should be outta there but kept chasing some romantic ideal I thought we still had

We didn't 

.............and I wasted valuable years as a result


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Twistedheart said:


> My STBXW also had a major issue with "memory recall" throughout our entire marriage. Looking back at all those years I put up with that sh*t I now realize that it isn't and wasn't a memory issue. It is a remarkable ability to minimize, blameshift and gaslight! One of the personality traits I will now be on the lookout for in future relationships.


:iagree: Yes it is one of the attributes many waywards seem to be afflicted with isn't it? mvstbx seems to be selective and economical about the truth about events but suddenly when it suits wit have complete and total recall when she needs to !!

hahaha

Have to say these days this is a constant source of amusement to me whenever something gets brought up from the past and I watch her squirm around any given 'issue' from her lying and deceit 

Always ends with her about turning and storming off in a huff !

Of course later she becomes this wretched 'victim' to all her allies friends family !

As usual


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

BetrayedDad said:


> Not even a millisecond, I started the divorce on D-Day. Why didn't I consider it? F*** her that's why. I can do better.


God I wish I had done that 



Well done


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

1 month!
i already knew that it would never be the same, it was useless to force myself in something that would always trigger me.... cant live that way and i still dont know how others can manage it.... reading that even after years they still cant get over it is very sad.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I do know I've changed in many ways. For the good. I know she's surprised by how much too. 
If an infidelity ever comes up again I know I'm gone. Done and finished. EA or whatever.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NeverMore (Feb 24, 2013)

6 months


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Twistedheart said:


> My STBXW also had a major issue with "memory recall" throughout our entire marriage. Looking back at all those years I put up with that sh*t I now realize that it isn't and wasn't a memory issue. It is a remarkable ability to minimize, blameshift and gaslight! One of the personality traits I will now be on the lookout for in future relationships.


Oh yes, memory recall ----My wife has a good memory, it is just not long


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

A BS trying to initiate an R is usually a bad idea. It's not the BS's fault the A happen so its not their responsibility to fix the M.

An A is grounds for a D and most people (when they are not currently in this situation) will tell you that an A is a deal breaker. Of course we seem to backpedal when push comes to shove.

If R is going to successful, it has to the lead by the WS, not the BS. They no longer deserve the right to stay in the M so they should doing their best to earn that right back. When a BS does the work the WS just goes along for the ride. 

Pretty much across the board I say head for a D after DDay then leave the R ball in the WS's court. The WS has to push for the R or else you will setting yourself up for failure. They put in a lot of work to have the A, then need to double that effort to save the M.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

convert said:


> Oh yes, memory recall ----My wife has a good memory, it is just not long


Memory? Hmm... selective. She remembered every little thing I did that upset her. Who on earth remembers her hubby leaving the toilet seat up on their 1st anniversary? About her affair - 'How many times do I have to tell you I don't remember.' Yeah, yeah, great. *F*ck you.*


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> We have been in reconciliation for over thirty years. There have been hard times and frustration...but we have had a very good life and we have a wonderful marriage.
> 
> It takes time and love...it takes remorse and forgiveness.
> 
> Edited to add....divorce was not an option either of us wanted to pursue so we both worked very hard to make the marriage work. I give my husband a tremendous amount of credit for sticking with me. I hope I bring him honor.


posts like this give me hope, hope maybe i don't deserve. i cheated about 8 years ago during a tough time in the marriage, then stupidly struck up an email conversation with OW a few years later that ended when my wife found out. not even sure why i let her back into my life, maybe partly to placate her in case she went nuts and told my wife everything if i had just said 'stay out of my life!' or whatever...anyway...worst decisions of my life.

over a year since d day now. it's hard for her because so many things can trigger those old memories for her. i'm in therapy, learning a tremendous amount about myself, would never stray again in a million years, furious at the childish mistakes i made...but of course it will always be there. its like a snakebite you just want to suck the venom out, but you can't.

we have two kids. i think she's still here mainly because of them, because she's a great person and doesn't want to ruin their lives. in the meantime i'm doing everything i can to win her back, day by day...but i never know when something is going to trigger her, and i feel like we're back at zero again. it's breaking my freaking heart and i don't know what else to do.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

WhiteRaven said:


> Memory? Hmm... selective. She remembered every little thing I did that upset her. Who on earth remembers her hubby leaving the toilet seat up on their 1st anniversary? About her affair - 'How many times do I have to tell you I don't remember.' Yeah, yeah, great. *F*ck you.*


LMAF....too good ...my laugh of the day
[email protected][email protected]!


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

wanttofixit said:


> posts like this give me hope, hope maybe i don't deserve. i cheated about 8 years ago during a tough time in the marriage, then stupidly struck up an email conversation with OW a few years later that ended when my wife found out. not even sure why i let her back into my life, maybe partly to placate her in case she went nuts and told my wife everything if i had just said 'stay out of my life!' or whatever...anyway...worst decisions of my life.
> 
> over a year since d day now. it's hard for her because so many things can trigger those old memories for her. i'm in therapy, learning a tremendous amount about myself, would never stray again in a million years, furious at the childish mistakes i made...but of course it will always be there. its like a snakebite you just want to suck the venom out, but you can't.
> 
> we have two kids. i think she's still here mainly because of them, because she's a great person and doesn't want to ruin their lives. in the meantime i'm doing everything i can to win her back, day by day...but i never know when something is going to trigger her, and i feel like we're back at zero again. it's breaking my freaking heart and i don't know what else to do.



This is your new reality... Welcome to our club...

~sammy


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

wanttofixit said:


> over a year since d day now. it's hard for her because so many things can trigger those old memories for her. i'm in therapy, learning a tremendous amount about myself, would never stray again in a million years, furious at the childish mistakes i made...*but of course it will always be there.* its like a snakebite you just want to suck the venom out, but you can't.
> 
> we have two kids. i think she's still here mainly because of them, because she's a great person and doesn't want to ruin their lives. in the meantime i'm doing everything i can to win her back, day by day...*but i never know when something is going to trigger her, and i feel like we're back at zero again.* it's breaking my freaking heart and i don't know what else to do.


WTF, (we at CWI love Abbrev and Initials...you pick it, LOL)

You sound completely remorseful and sorry for your infidelity. My wife's in your shoes... serial cheated for years, before being caught. 

1st, Accept that nothing you can do post will ever "make up" or replace the damage you betrayed on your wife. In a word she is damaged goods... all at your hand. Nothing, period, your actions will go to the grave... You cannot UN-cheat.

2nd, The betrayed will forever remember... Forgive, a possibility, Forget, never. Therefore, the BS that R will in some fashion "sit the fence" possibly forever. 3, 5 10 years post DD the may just leave. Your actions have granted that *Right*, yes it is their right now. No explanation needed, no overwhelming reason, their right. Your betrayal forfeited all prior vows, reality.

3rd, I sense and damn well understand your frustration in how to heal, "suck the poison", win her trust, make it right... 1000 more trite words here. Hear a truth... She will never trust you again. She will always look at you with some level of distrust. 

This the new Reality... Sammy3

Last, What can you do now? First, send the kids to Grand Ma's for the weekend. Get your mind straight, clear the entire day for her, Start from the beginning of the Affair. Explain how you were feeling, what you did, what you said, what you lied to her about. CLEAR the DECK. Take her with you from cradle to grave of your affair. Be an open book, do not offend her by minimizing skipping details, and god please do not TT. 

I know you are thinking this is a suicide mission, in truth maybe. However, if you want her to stop with the "wondering", she needs the truth... every ugly detail. Trust me, in one thing. This level of honesty will hurt her, but it will forever DE-mystify the affair in her mind and both you and her can get out of neutral and hopefully on with "real" living.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

How long did you try to R before deciding to divorce?- "TOO" long...


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

Let me add to RWB, 

I learned too much of my h with and about the ow. Things that I wish I never knew bc those things will nerve go away now, which is making 
R harder. My mind games are very real to me, and I let them eat me alive, much like the dementors do in Harry Potter. There is a very fine line. 

But it will never be the same. It will be different from now on out, all because of your selfishness. 

~ sammy


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## Visionknower (Oct 14, 2013)

For a great change of perspective 

Reconciliation and Entitlement

An interview with Dr. George Simon on “Character Disturbance”


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## wanttofixit (Mar 9, 2014)

RWB said:


> WTF, (we at CWI love Abbrev and Initials...you pick it, LOL)
> 
> You sound completely remorseful and sorry for your infidelity. My wife's in your shoes... serial cheated for years, before being caught.
> 
> ...


good advice. i've laid it all out on the table. my affair was more emotional than physical, but honestly that only makes it more embarrassing for me, and painful for her, i think. what an awful chapter of my life--during the birth of 2nd kid, no less. it makes me so angry that during that time, my attentions were focused there, and not on my family. talk about something you can't get back.

it's perplexing how you could enter into a marriage so ready to be the perfect husband, thinking you're a certain kind of person...and then, just, a series of events, a few bad choices, and there you are, everything you thought about yourself, really, turns out to be untrue. identity is such a thin line.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

2 years haha funny the 2 year anniversary of DDay is this week, really I have not made the final decision but I know I am closer to D now than I was 2 years ago.
Call it apathy or indifference but the thought of staying or going just doesn't matter, both have their good and bad now it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.

Two years ago after the shock wore off I would have told you I thought we could overcome this, I underestimated just how much the hurt continues to tear you up. 
Reconciliation is an endurance sport with the physical terrors your body goes through hand in hand with the emotional/mental stress it can seem like you are under constant attack, you just get worn down. 
Even though D has it's own set of problems and suffering the temptation of relief it would bring to that area of my life keeps it on my mind constantly.

I would like to finish with this, early on your are fighting for your life everything is day to day, minute to minute, as your R continues the more long term issues come up, 5 years, 10 years, 20 and the thought is this really where I want to be?
Now you have to make the decision you originally made before the marriage (This is the person I want to spend the rest of my life with) only now they are tainted you wonder is this now the person I want to wake up to.
No one said it would be easy.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

RWB said:


> You sound completely remorseful and sorry for your infidelity. My wife's in your shoes... serial cheated for years, before being caught.


A remorseful SERIAL cheater sounds like an oxymoron…


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## vi_bride04 (Mar 28, 2012)

*Re: Re: How long did you try to R before deciding to divorce?*



BetrayedDad said:


> A remorseful SERIAL cheater sounds like an oxymoron…


I agree. I do not see a true serial cheater being completely remorseful. The behavior & selfish characteristics are too engrained in them at that point.


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## beachwater (Mar 10, 2014)

love=pain said:


> Reconciliation is an endurance sport with the physical terrors your body goes through hand in hand with the emotional/mental stress it can seem like you are under constant attack, you just get worn down.


The physical repercussions have been shocking IME.


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## Fordsvt (Dec 24, 2010)

I'm amazed at some couples go 2-3 years in R. Good for them in trying. It's a tough road. I've only been at it for almost five months only. It's hard-hope it pays off


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

vi_bride04 said:


> I agree. I do not see a true serial cheater being completely remorseful. The behavior & selfish characteristics are too engrained in them at that point.


Not argument from me.

Confusing, to say the least. I sat on the fence for over a year. 30 years married when I found out she was a serial cheater. We are almost 5 years in R.

Yes... I still look over my shoulder.


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