# A marriage/Relationship Question - Input is Appreciated



## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

Hello Group,

My thoughts on relationships before I got married was that two people went into this thing and did what was pleasing to the other person. And, so long as the two people strived to please each other, even as the couple's needs might grow and change, things could be good. I always felt that if you wanted to keep a person, you need to do what you did to get them.

All this being said, DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY TRY TO DO THIS??? Before you come to me with advice, please understand that I am not looking for that (though advice is welcome). I am looking more of a case study about whether or not people continually try to make the other person happy. And, if you or your spouse stopped trying, approximately how many years into the marriage did this occur?

Any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Yes, two people in a relationship should try to make each other happy, but it is important to make yourself happy, too.

Part of making yourself happy may be by doing things for your SO, but you still have to things for yourself, too.

People change and sometimes what made them happy before isn't what makes them happy now. Things get state, people's interests and beliefs change. 

I think my wife and I stopped trying about 15 years into our marriage and spent the next 15 miserable. When we had some life altering, tragic circumstances happen we were able to right ourselves and return to a better place in our marriage.


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

That is the way it should be, to a degree. There's only so much you can do to make someone else happy; there's a certain amount of happiness that they have to make for themselves.

When I was married to my ex, I confess that I did stop trying very early on, probably within a couple of months of the wedding. This was because he did nothing to meet my needs and I was fairly certain he was cheating on me, although I couldn't prove it. I was young and immature, and decided that since that was how he was treating me, I was going to stop trying. 

With my boyfriend, I always try to make him happy and meet his needs. If I'm not doing so, I want him to tell me (as nicely as possible, of course) and if necessary, make suggestions on how that can be changed. He feels the same. I would hope we would never stop doing that. If we did, I would think it would be an indication of other problems in our relationship, as I believe that regardless of what else may be going on, two people truly in love with each other would still do the best they can to try to make each other happy and to communicate when it's not happening the way it should.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

10 years married, and we have been together for a total of 13 years. Yes, we still do our best to meet each others needs/wants. And over the space of 13 years, yes those needs change and sometimes even stop. 

For instance, I've never been much of a person for wanting to kiss. My wife isn't much a kisser either, so it worked! But over the past year or so, I had started really, really wanting to kiss. My wife wasn't too keen on it, but she started doing it because she knew it was important to me. The more we did it, the more it became normal for both of us and we don't even think about having to try doing it anymore.

My wife has always been kind of a introvert and wasn't huge on having me give her back rubs, foot rubs, etc. Same deal with her, she started wanting them. Instead of just expecting me to know, she started telling me she was wanting them, when she was wanting them. Now I have learned to read her body language to know when she's wanting to be rubbed, etc without her having to ask.

If you marry someone you can NOT expect that person to be the same tomorrow as they were today. We are all always changing our personalities as we gain experience in life. The one thing constant in life is change!

IMO that is what makes our marriage a successful one. Is we are both willing to do what we can to make the other person happy regardless if that request is new or not.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Male - 47 -married to F - 47, for 20 years. Very happy because the statement below tends to DEFINE both of our behavior towards the other. 

The "desire to please" and the competence to translate that desire into action are core to a happy marriage. 

MOST of what I read on here is a case of one or the other partners drastically reducing their "desire to please" quotient at some point in the marriage. 

Sometimes though it is a competence issue more than effort. Some people are not good at translating effort into results. 





Orion said:


> Hello Group,
> 
> My thoughts on relationships before I got married was that two people went into this thing and did what was pleasing to the other person. And, so long as the two people strived to please each other, even as the couple's needs might grow and change, things could be good. I always felt that if you wanted to keep a person, you need to do what you did to get them.
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Crypsys said:


> If you marry someone you can NOT expect that person to be the same tomorrow as they were today. We are all always changing our personalities as we gain experience in life. The one thing constant in life is change!
> 
> IMO that is what makes our marriage a successful one. Is we are both willing to do what we can to make the other person happy regardless if that request is new or not.


 I read this & pretty much agree but couldn't help but be thinking to myself - if my husband suddenly started to NOT want to have sex "alot", it would be a REAL problem for me personally. As long as he wants it, I am a happy wife & this keeps me content & vibrant, but if that dried up & came to a halt (that kind of change), I think it could be disasterous to our "happy" relationship. I think I could live with other little changes right now, almost anything else he wanted, but not that. 

I try to do what he wants for the most part, everything and anything to help his life be easier, so when he comes home from work, he can relax (& have more time for me!). 

I definetly feel couples should strive to live as though they are still dating ...keep the attractiveness up to entice their partner, never let the romance die, even flirting with each other, teasing, never let go of these things! Unfortunetly, we lost sight of these precious things for a long time in our marraige: I was too focused on kids & other things, oh how I regret this looking back. 

We are living more NOW like we just got married & are still discovering each other. Oh to be young again, this can be found even in mid life.

But yeah, both partners need to be committed to wanting the same, it was a CHANGE 
for us, a wonderful change, and my husband stepped up to meet that "need" in me. 
Pure Bliss


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## cheetahcub (Aug 18, 2010)

I agree with crypsys. Also 10 years married, with a bumpy start as we had a honeymoon baby, so time alone was not much. The main thing is communication. Telling each other, rather than expecting the other person to KNOW what you want, that makes the difference. 

The balance should be to respect each other as individuals too. Space to breathe. My husband is not my object, but my teammate. I'm his. There is a us rather than "you and me", which creates harmony. We each have our own role and functions to perform. I can trust him to take care of his department (not look over his shoulder), and just assist when needed, and vica versa. Not do it for him, or try to overrule him. 

Think about it, 90% of fights starts with the fact that the other person didn't do what was expected of him/her. If we realise that, life can go much more smoothly. Talking, making sure the message was received clearly, keeps both parties on the same page and happy. That's the atmosphere one wants when you think of going home...peace, not war. And that's the atmosphere we're working on for the next 100.

Yes, it's work sometimes, because we all have egos, but hey, it's worth it!


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Male - 47 -married to F - 47, for 20 years. Very happy because the statement below tends to DEFINE both of our behavior towards the other.
> 
> The "desire to please" and the competence to translate that desire into action are core to a happy marriage.
> 
> ...


Mem11363,

The "desire to please" component is what I am trying to get at. I am wondering if people KNOW what their spouses want, had no issue fulfilling these needs before and/or shortly after they were married, and after a while simply do not care to do the things that they know their spouses want. 

I understand what people "should" do. I am more interested in what is actually happening. And, you (and the others) addressed that aspect.


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

Hunt Brown said:


> I don't try to make my partner happy. that's her job.
> 
> I do concientiously avoid those behaviors and actions that I know will bring her pain and make her job harder.
> 
> ...


From your post, it seems that your approach is more about pain/annoyance minimization and less about joy maximization. Am I correct in that assumption? 

Also, do you have requirements of your partner and her of you? If so, how do you two address when those requirements are not being met?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Outside the marriage I agree that each of us is responsible for our own happiness. INSIDE the marriage I know that there a many things I can do that make her feel loved and cared for etc and I am glad to do them. And vice versa. Of course I try to bring my A game to the table just like you do. But part of my A game is doing things that I KNOW make her happy. And vice versa.

If my "bar" was set at avoiding love busters - that is a low bar. If hers was set there - that would be a lot of joy that does not happen. 




Hunt Brown said:


> I don't try to make my partner happy. that's her job.
> 
> I do concientiously avoid those behaviors and actions that I know will bring her pain and make her job harder.
> 
> ...


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I read this & pretty much agree but couldn't help but be thinking to myself - if my husband suddenly started to NOT want to have sex "alot", it would be a REAL problem for me personally. As long as he wants it, I am a happy wife & this keeps me content & vibrant, but if that dried up & came to a halt (that kind of change), I think it could be disasterous to our "happy" relationship. I think I could live with other little changes right now, almost anything else he wanted, but not that.


I kind of painted with too broad of a brush. There are certain things that I just take for granted as MUSTS in any relationship. Physical contact, emotional availability, etc. I was speaking more towards those smaller things that cause people to get frustrated. Sometimes the issues in marriages are those large areas. But many times marriages fall apart because of multiple small issues that don't get addressed.





SimplyAmorous said:


> I definetly feel couples should strive to live as though they are still dating ...keep the attractiveness up to entice their partner, never let the romance die, even flirting with each other, teasing, never let go of these things!


:iagree:

I think if you were to compress my overall feelings about marriage into a byline, what SimplyA just wrote would be it. I 100% agree about living like your still dating!!


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

Orion said:


> I am looking more of a case study about whether or not people continually try to make the other person happy. And, if you or your spouse stopped trying, approximately how many years into the marriage did this occur?


No I dont try to continually make my H happy. I used to, and my H used to, but then we read about boundaries and co-dependency and now we try and make ourselves happy. Im much happier and we dont fight much anymore. This change happened a few years ago. It started out as a bitter, resentful withdrawal of love on my part but over a few years I learned to let go of all that. I'd like to think we're in the process of developing a healthy respect for ourselves and each other.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Hunt, 
You are a smart man with a lot of integrity. You sometimes lean too hard on theory and avoid the difficult reality that is marriage. 

You state you don't "require" anything from your partner. You later say that if affection and sex stopped you would have a hard decision to make. 

Most men and perhaps most women DO require some amount of affection and love from their partners. There is nothing wrong with that. This idea of total mutual independence just does not resonate. 

If having sex with or simply being with your partner does not boost your mood - then we are different. While I am comfortable alone, I far prefer to vacation, explore the world and try out new activities with my W. She is fun - we make each other laugh. She DOES make me happy. I DO make her happy. If that makes us dependent/flawed/less evolved than other folks I am ok with that. 





Hunt Brown said:


> this is probably way too much information....
> 
> .. I don't see anything wrong with minimizing the pain I inflict on others.... I'm pretty sure when I get to heaven St. Peter isn't going to ask me how i was treated on earth, but how did I treat others. I avoid displays of anger, passive agressive behavior, lieing, cheating, stealing, pettiness... it's pretty normal for some people to get upset when they find the cap off the toothpaste... I just put it back on because I want it on, not because she should have done it.
> 
> ...


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## Orion (Jul 17, 2010)

Hunt Brown said:


> this is probably way too much information....
> 
> .. I don't see anything wrong with minimizing the pain I inflict on others.... I'm pretty sure when I get to heaven St. Peter isn't going to ask me how i was treated on earth, but how did I treat others. I avoid displays of anger, passive agressive behavior, lieing, cheating, stealing, pettiness... it's pretty normal for some people to get upset when they find the cap off the toothpaste... I just put it back on because I want it on, not because she should have done it.
> 
> ...


Hunt,

When I said "joy maximization", I meant the act of doing the things for your partner that you know would please them and vice versa. For instance, my wife loves backrubs so I will give her an unsolicited backrub because I know that it pleases her.

I am fully on board with your concept of owning my actions. In fact, in reading your posts this theme has been hammered home and I agree with it wholeheartedly. 

I do think that people in relationships "require" things of their mates, however. Whether its fidelity, sex, or the occassional backrub. I think that in the absence of requirements, there would be some really unfulfilling relationships.

I started this thread because, while I am still bringing my A-Game, I feel that my wife has chosen to do the bare minimum (and sometimes less than that). Now, this was not the case before we got married or the marriage would have never happened. There are extenuating circumstances so I am trying to be patient. However, her inability to do the basic things that got me in the first place is starting to make me question myself and my choice to make her my wife. That being said, we have great communications and I realize that circumstances beyond our control are contributing to things but I have determined that I cannot spend the rest of my life like this. So, at some point, I will have a decision to make. Right now, it's peaks and valleys and the valleys seem to last a hell of a lot longer than the peaks.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is a very healthy perspective. It is called having boundaries. I will also say that many people in very one-sided relationships find that the closer they get to giving "unconditional love" to their partner, the WORSE their partner behaves. I don't know why that is, but it is true. 

There is a difference between lowering your expectations and giving someone a total free pass. We had a very specific situation with a child that caused my W to be truly sad/depressed for about 3 months. During that time our sex life ratcheted back to once a week - general affection was unchanged. I could tell how much effort it took for her to connect with me weekly and was very appreciative which I showed by completely suppressing any sexual overtures the other 6 days of the week. During that time I did feel bad for her - worse for her sadness than the impact it had on our sex life. Still had she chosen to just "stop" that would not have worked for me. That would be the unilateral "I don't feel like doing X". Sometimes marriage is hard. 

In Hunts terms - a shutdown would have been a major love buster for me. 

In general I see way too much in the way of making excuses for a partners low level of effort in unhappy marriages. There generally is a bright line separating being committed and being a martyr. 

90 percent of my wife's respect for me is earned - but ultimately the last 10 percent is based on my DEMAND for a certain level of respect. 



Orion said:


> Hunt,
> 
> When I said "joy maximization", I meant the act of doing the things for your partner that you know would please them and vice versa. For instance, my wife loves backrubs so I will give her an unsolicited backrub because I know that it pleases her.
> 
> ...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Just to provide context: During those 3 months I went above and beyond in general because I knew she was hurting. I was more patient, more understanding, I listened, I held her while she cried. Not asking for a medal - simply making the point that I tried to be a rock solid emotional partner during that time. 

AND I also told her I was very grateful for her efforts to stay physically connected with me - that I knew it was hard and that the effort meant a lot to me. And it did. 

The MAIN thing is we came out of that 3 months without resentment, anger or bitterness. Had I expected/pressured her to keep our normal sexual routine she would have felt ill used. Had I shown no consideration for her emotional state outside the bedroom she would have been angry. And fairly so. Had she shut our sex life down because it was really hard for her to get in the mood, hard for her to achieve the rapture - I would have felt like she was not making a good faith effort. 

Overall I felt that situation showed that under duress we were BOTH willing to go the extra mile for each other. We have had some other situations like that - same behavior on both parts. Same high level of effort. I like it. This whole "you are responsible for your own happiness" is fine up to a point. What happens when something really bad happens with a child. Do you say "this isn't bothering me as much as it is you - I hope you can work through it" Of course not. You comfort - you help - you make sure they don't feel alone. And they make sure you don't feel abandoned.




MEM11363 said:


> This is a very healthy perspective. It is called having boundaries. I will also say that many people in very one-sided relationships find that the closer they get to giving "unconditional love" to their partner, the WORSE their partner behaves. I don't know why that is, but it is true.
> 
> There is a difference between lowering your expectations and giving someone a total free pass. We had a very specific situation with a child that caused my W to be truly sad/depressed for about 3 months. During that time our sex life ratcheted back to once a week - general affection was unchanged. I could tell how much effort it took for her to connect with me weekly and was very appreciative which I showed by completely suppressing any sexual overtures the other 6 days of the week. During that time I did feel bad for her - worse for her sadness than the impact it had on our sex life. Still had she chosen to just "stop" that would not have worked for me. That would be the unilateral "I don't feel like doing X". Sometimes marriage is hard.
> 
> ...


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

Orion said:


> Hello Group,
> 
> My thoughts on relationships before I got married was that two people went into this thing and did what was pleasing to the other person. And, so long as the two people strived to please each other, even as the couple's needs might grow and change, things could be good. I always felt that if you wanted to keep a person, you need to do what you did to get them.
> 
> ...


I always know if I want to keep my husband forever, I have to do a lot of things to make him happy. 

He likes to eat good food, so I do my best to cook. 

He likes me to look sexy, so I do my best to keep in shape. Eat what is healthy and don't eat anything which would make me fat(even though they are tasty). I also dress up the way my husband likes. He has a good taste.

He likes to have a clean apartment, so I do my best to keep it neat and homey. 

He likes sex. I like sex, too. But he can always have me even though I was tired. Sometimes at night I was sleeping, he couldn't sleep, he wanted sex, no matter how sleepy I was, he could have me. He likes BJs, I try to give him BJs every day, to a point I just love to play with his toy. He likes to have sex out in the forest and field, I go along with him. He wanted to try anal, I bought lubricant. 

He likes fruit, I make sure that we always have fruit in the refrigerator, no matter how expensive it is. 

He told me that I should change my temper. It is not good to have a bad temper. I started to change, not easy, but I succeeded. Now I don't get upset any more, it is so nice to be together without being upset about each other. Only love, no fight! 

He likes to travel, I try to organize trips. We go to mountains by his motorcycle, we go to cultural places by HSR. 

I find out what he likes and what he wants. I do whatever I can to make him happy. Please don't think that I don't have my own life. My life is to make my husband happy. Because this man is making me very happy. He is also doing whatever I like to make me happy. 

So our love for each other is growing instead of disappearing!!!


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