# My gut is at it again...2yrs later



## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Just over 2 years ago I posted here asking for help. If you go back, you can look at what I've gone through.

Now, I probably haven't done things the way people would say is the best, or nearly best way of handling things. However, there was a point where I though we were on the right track, she was happy, I was happy, we were looking forward to being parents (She got pregnant) but then she miscarried.

The following couple of months were hard for both of us. I can't imagine her pain, but there was a lot of pain there for me as well. The fact that I would have to continue doing my job, around little kids all day, made it worse.

A year later, she's showing signs of having an affair. This time I'm either more observant or I'm being overly so.

She's at work way past when 'over-time' hours. I can attribute this to her not wanting to come home and deal with her mother, but that's just putting it all on me. Besides, we don't need the extra money.

When it's not over-time then it's drinks with co-workers. If that's what she says, that's what it is. I'm not going to, at this point, tell her to 'prove it'...although only 2yrs out, I kind of wish she would offer it up. She had before, but it's so easy to get a friend or co-worker to cover for you.

I did laundry and found some sex panties...not lingerie...crotchless panties with white pearls down the middle. I don't think she was expecting me to finish the laundry. I put the panties on her desk and let her find it on her own...I wanted her to know that I knew about her 'special underwear' without actually saying anything. I wanted to see what she would say. Her reaction "Oh, these were panties my co-worker bought for her boyfriend and she didn't like them so she gave them to me." My first thought was 'Really...you plan on wearing those when someone else beat you to it...and since when have you worn ANYTHING sex related to bed in an attempt to get me in the mood?'

AND...since finding those panties, I wondered if she was hiding anything else so I jumped onto her computer. Her facebook was not accessible (Password not saved) but her iPad was a different story...password saved. I went through some of her messages. Mostly nothing related to me with the exception of one. The message, which was not in English (So I took a picture of and sent it to my friend) basically said "I can count on (Me) my husband for this and that, but I'd rather count on you for other stuff." And to the same person "It's his birthday (Me) and we would really like YOU to come." When he said he couldn't because he didn't drink or have the money to go out she actually changed the birthday plans around (Which at the time seem odd to me). She wanted him there...problem for her is (If she was interested) he is such a good Christian boy that he would never do anything like this. He's got a girlfriend now. Just talking with him you would know that he's not gonna mess around in a relationship with a married woman. Never say never, but I'm a betting man...I'd say never with him...other people though...who knows...and it sucks to feel that way about your wife....

Sex is still hit and miss. I have to initiate. When I do, she's a go and has her fun. But if I don't, I don't think it would happen. A couple months back I asked her since her mother was out for a couple of weeks if we could take advantage of the time...at first she said 'OK' and then it was 'How about tomorrow?'...and then the following day would come around and she'd have 1 too many glasses of wine and be 'OK...we can have sex if you want.' And I just let her pass out. Not exactly what I want. The next day 'Oh I feel bad (Without the actual sympathy in her voice' and I would respond calmly 'When you are in the mood, let me know. Until then, do what you want.'


My friend says "Get divorced." He thinks that she'll only get the point when she realizes I don't 'need her'. But I don't want her to be all over me because she's 'scared' to be on her own or because she won't have my pay to rely on or my time to rely on (In taking care of her mother). I want her to be with me because that's what she really wants.

Right now, I'm all about taking care of myself. I'm healthier, stronger, making sure all my priorities are in order. The only thing I can't really wrap my head around is how to handle this. If I bring up affairs, the possibilities, the signs, it just turns into an argument. I feel a bit like I'm waiting for her to mess up so I can say "Thank you, and **** you very much...goodbye." It sounds like I don't love her...10 yrs together, I do...but I'm starting to hate both her and myself in many ways. For all that I've gained, I still feel like I'm losing....

So...I post this in hope for some replies.

Just an FYI...she's not OK with counseling, books, or programs. She thinks this is all stuff that needs to be solved 'in house'. It may be a cultural thing...


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Var, keylogger, gps, PI, check phone/text records.

What are you really waiting for?

You had better get an std test too.

You sound too beat down to do anything.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

This sounds very much like a project. You will have to ask yourself if that's what you want to do at this point in your live. I wouldn't but we are all different. Good luck


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> Just over 2 years ago I posted here asking for help. If you go back, you can look at what I've gone through.
> 
> Now, I probably haven't done things the way people would say is the best, or nearly best way of handling things. However, there was a point where I though we were on the right track, she was happy, I was happy, we were looking forward to being parents (She got pregnant) but then she miscarried.
> 
> ...


Please don't think that a good christian boy would not have sex with an older married lady. You don't say his age or your wife's age -- but your wife is definitely acting like a MILF and is slowly seducing the boy. I bet she is liking the chase very much. Just read the OM in his apartment story. She chased and he got her. Same story hear.

Please watch and observe before it is too late. It may be to late since you both had issues 2 years ago and did not adress them back then.

You need to do something drastic -- because your wife has absolutely no respect for you and does not love you -- for that matter even like you -- as she constantly hurts you -- and you allow it.

Good luck !!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

The STD test is one way I thought about bringing up the subject...not sure if it's the best way, but it certainly would pushing things into a 'conversation'.

She (As many in this country) don't like the use of condoms. And since she's older (And can't get pregnant that easily) she is less worried. When we have sex, no condoms and all 'ordinance' is released on the inside (I have no other way of putting it).

Bringing up whether I need to get tested or not might push her to answer questions that need to be answered. I'll get one anyways.

The guy in questions, being a guy I know that it's hard to turn down sex from a beautiful woman, is just not that kind of guy. Just writing that I know how stupid it sounds...but his responses to her messages were always very polite and to the point, asking how 'I' was doing in many of them. I would think he would go to our minister (We have the same minister) and he (Knowing my story) would caution him. My minister isn't bound by any law and I believe he would come to me (Since we were friends way before he became a minister) and let me know something was happening that I should look at....but I've read enough, heard enough, seen enough to know that what seems impossible is actually possible...it sucks...

Since finding her underwear I've been getting more text messages from her as well...not the norm.

As far as a VAR...nothing could happen at our apartment. My schedule is all over the place and there's no way for her to get away with anything here. And since we don't have a car, the VAR and GPS are a no go.

Thought about a keylogger, but the thing is I can access her email on her computer. She's not that dumb. Her Facebook, she was careless, but the rest she leaves open.

Her phone...that's the problem. She works for the phone company and knows how the phones work. It's part of her job. In the 'good days' she would talk about how she would have to explain to customers calling in how to 'hide' certain information. She's an expert and would be able to hide anything from me on her phone. This country prides itself on being able to keep it's customers secrets...nothing is more important. She knows how so even if I ask to see her phone, there would be no real point. She'd get away with it.

As for a PI...if I had the energy, wanted to waste the money, I would...but I just don't. I'd rather just leave...and this is how I'm feeling now. I just don't know how exactly.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

How about a close friend to follow her around?


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## aeg512 (Mar 22, 2011)

I think you just need to decided which way you wish to go, stay together or D and have a talk with her. The talk could decide the direction you go. Explain what you have here, tell you you do not believe her story on the panties for one minute and why. i.e. why would she wear someone elses underware and if she did take them why not wear them for you? Bring up the other red flags, give her a choice, if she does not wish to go to MC, D is the only other direction. It could come out that the mother is the main issue, if so, you may need to come up with other living arrangements to save the M.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She is a serial cheater. 

You have done all you could to save your marriage. Ask her to leave and then file for divorce. 

Any person stupid enough to leave sex panties out for her husband to find deserves being divorced. You should divorce her to be rid of being married to an idiot, if for anything else.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I wanted her to know that I knew about her 'special underwear' without actually saying anything. I wanted to see what she would say. Her reaction "Oh, these were panties my co-worker bought for her boyfriend and she didn't like them so she gave them to me."

Yeah, right!!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

In your country would cheating make a difference in divorce settlement?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Since she doesn't believe in counseling or books then what she is truly saying is that there is nothing wrong with her behavior and that you have to deal with it. If you are too scared to leave her, then continue with thing as they are while making peace with the fact that you are in a one sided open marriage. On the other hand, if you truly believe that you deserve better than what you've gotten from her, then you know what you have to do, divorce her. Those are essentially your two options.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

I agree. She's a serial cheater.

Also, you said "Thought about a keylogger, but the thing is I can access her email on her computer. She's not that dumb" - She may have secret email accounts you don't know about so you should use the keylogger


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> I did laundry and found some sex panties...not lingerie...crotchless panties with white pearls down the middle. I don't think she was expecting me to finish the laundry. I put the panties on her desk and let her find it on her own...I wanted her to know that I knew about her 'special underwear' without actually saying anything. I wanted to see what she would say. Her reaction "Oh, these were panties my co-worker bought for her boyfriend and she didn't like them so she gave them to me." My first thought was 'Really...you plan on wearing those when someone else beat you to it...and since when have you worn ANYTHING sex related to bed in an attempt to get me in the mood?'


You have gotten some good advice, but I want to concentrate on this for a bit. If this is typical of your interaction, you need toughen up a bit. Why did you not confront your wife directly and ask her about the panties? Leaving them on her desk comes across as passive aggressive and afraid of confrontation. Plus, it gave her time to come up with an excuse. As it is, you missed an opportunity to confront her directly and gauge her reaction.

You can't be afraid of her. Your actions here send the message (whether or not true) that you are scared of her.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Your original story is brutal. She killed you from the inside. Why are still living with her like a zombie. Anything redeeming about the relationship that makes you stay with her?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

I agree with all the comments above. Also, women friends do not give each other crotchless panties. Ever. But you know that.


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

I didn't read your original post from two years ago but it's crystal clear that you did not heed the advice that was given to you back then. So why should we now expect you to listen to the collective wisdom of this forum? Morituri is correct to say that you have two choices: 1) continue to live in a one-sided marriage or, 2) divorce her.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Your gut is at it again?

She has crotchless panties stashed, not into sex with you, exchanges love messages with a male, secretive, has password-protected FB account, comes late from work.. and you say, "gut feeling"? No man, it's the reality begins to break through your shell of denial.

You have to kick her out, this is your only option. Not holding my breath though.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

He caught her in the act so crotchless panties, fb messages, comign home alte are nothing to him.


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## ralk (Jun 1, 2012)

You deserve better...


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

ralk said:


> You deserve better...


Sadly his actions prove otherwise.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

But you have been through this before, apparently several times form reading some of your earlier posts.

You're experienced. You should be giving other people advice on what to do. Maybe, then, that'll help you. Help others so that you can help yourself?


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Kick her OUT. Then get yourself some IC in order to avoid making the same mistakes in your next relationship. 

We are two years out, and no WAY would I accept ANY of those things from him without a pretty convincing explanation that he was able to PROVE to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. Once they cheat, they have to live like that if they want to live with you.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

snap said:


> Your gut is at it again?
> 
> She has crotchless panties stashed, not into sex with you, exchanges love messages with a male, secretive, has password-protected FB account, comes late from work.. and you say, "gut feeling"? No man, it's the reality begins to break through your shell of denial.
> 
> You have to kick her out, this is your only option. Not holding my breath though.


IKR?

If I found crotchless panties while doing the laundry, I'd confront her right when she got home, and tell her to GTFO of here. Not this aww...I'm getting more text messages from her since I found the panties. WTF? Seriously. WTF?

synonimous_anonymous kick her ass to the cub already. You rugswept before and you're playing Mr Nice Guy (extremely unattractive to her).


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## MrQuatto (Jul 7, 2010)

lordmayhem said:


> IKR?
> 
> If I found crotchless panties while doing the laundry, I'd confront her right when she got home, and tell her to GTFO of here. Not this aww...I'm getting more text messages from her since I found the panties. WTF? Seriously. WTF?
> 
> synonimous_anonymous kick her ass to the cub already. You rugswept before and you're playing Mr Nice Guy (extremely unattractive to her).


I dont understand why he is posting here. He KNEW she was in an affair before, had no remorse, made no real attempt to reconcile.

He buried his head in the sand and let the world keep turning. Now it has turned full circle and he is right back to the same issue. Why he would be suprised and even mentioned it is beyond me. If HE didn't fix it, HE can't expect it to change.

Q~


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP,
All the replies are pointing to your manning up. She is not bothered to reconcile with you. She is inviting a boy and how could you tolerate this blatant violaion of marital ethics?
Why are you dithering to decide?


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> I did laundry and found some sx panties...not lingerie...crtchless panties with white pearls down the middle. I don't think she was expecting me to finish the laundry.


I'm always amazed at how FN stupid/careless cheaters can be. Thank gawd for that, however, b/c crap like this usually gets them caught. 

syno - you messed up with that weak confrontration on the panties. She'll be way more careful now, so you can go back to believing that this repeat offender is behaving. Sorry you're going throught this, but you really need to sack up and kick her azz to the curb...today. Nobody deserves to be treated this poorly.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

thunderstruck said:


> *I'm always amazed at how FN stupid/careless cheaters can be. Thank gawd for that, however, b/c crap like this usually gets them caught.*
> 
> syno - you messed up with that weak confrontration on the panties. She'll be way more careful now, so you can go back to believing that this repeat offender is behaving. Sorry you're going throught this, but you really need to sack up and kick her azz to the curb...today. Nobody deserves to be treated this poorly.



I think his wife does not care because he's hasnt found the emotional strength to deal with it for the last 2 years.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Just as a reminder, here is synonimous_anonymous' first post (last time he was here). He caught her naked in bed on top of another man and she tried to convince him it was nothing and nothing would have or did happen. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/153394-post1.html

Pack her things today. Place them outside the apartment in the luggage. Add another new bolt lock to the door. Do it today and do not try to figure it out or let her explain it. It's over.

Frankly after the last time, if you won't do that now I don't really see any point in writing further.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There's the fog of infidelity. But there's also the fog that can afflict the cheated spouse.

Knowing they are cheating is one thing. Believing that is another thing.

It's not only cheaters that can compartmentalise stuff, you know. Sometimes the good guys and gals do it, too...


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Well, I confronted her today on several issues. While I may have been late on the panties, I brought up everything else.

First, to answer a previous question, yes infidelity in this country would mean I not only wouldn't need to pay any kind of support (Even if we had kids...which is about the only time you NEED to pay) but I can actually bring the OM to court and very easily sue him.

The way she dealt with the panties situation was as follows (And I'm very much aware that she had time to plan the answer): She said that she wouldn't be careless to leave anything around for me to find if she had something going on. The fact that it made me question her faithfulness made her feel guilty (Something I've only seen after catching her 2 yrs ago). She offered to introduce me to the co-worker who gave her the panties and that I could ask any question about them that would make me feel like she never bought them but that they were actually given to her. So, I took her up on the offer and talked with her co-worker face to face, asked about where she bought them, how much, why she gave them to her. This is all in the morning before work (I have the day off so I took my time asking). Her co-worker was looking very sorry as though she had caused some kind of rift. I doubt she has the back-story to everything. One thing I was looking for was size...my wife is a very thin person, and while many people are thin here, there aren't many her size. The co-worker had the same body type...I've met plenty of her co-workers over the years and none of them are like her physically. This girl was. I was weak in giving her time to prepare an answer, so I take even all of this with a grain of salt.

After that, my wife said she planned to wear them for me but that they were so uncomfortable that she decided not to. It was my birthday a few weeks ago, and still no birthday present.

I then asked her pointblank if she was seeing anyone and that if she was to tell me now. I told her all those feelings were coming back and I wasn't about to let myself go into this state of limbo. She denied anything was happening (More on that in a minute).

She said she would provide me with her work records to show she's actually at work. Those would be hard to fake since they come registered mail to our apartment. She said that if she has drinks with co-workers that she would take pictures and video and send it to me to show she is where she says she is OR she won't go if it make me feel uncomfortable.

The sex, she says is something she can't figure out. She knows people crave food, money and sex. But for some reason she does have that same craving for sex. While trying to get pregnant the craving was there but she says there was a 'purpose' and that maybe that's why she felt different then. She can't explain it now.

She won't go to a doctor because of some very bad experiences in her life (Some that I've witnessed). There is no such thing as marriage counseling in this country so if you are a marriage counselor you can probably making a killing over here. I asked her if she would read books I would get her and she agreed so long as I read books she would give to me (Although I have no idea what she plans on wanting me to read). Now I just need to find the right books in the right language.

She opened up her computer to me. I went through her Facebook messages with her, she hadn't deleted the messages I saw from the Christian guy. I asked her to explain it. She said she was just being friendly, the same she would be with a girl. I asked her if she understood why I would think otherwise and she said "Yes.". Her emails were full of junk mail. I asked about having other accounts and she said no. So, a keylogger might be the way to go. She's not very tech savvy...but we'll see.

I handled things poorly back then when it all first happened. I see that now, but hindsight is always 20/20. I'm I still weak, yes. 

I have very little as far as support. My family lives in another country. The friends I have here have their own families to worry about. The friend I confided in lives at home with his parents still (37yrs old). He's about the only support I get. My minister, as nice a guy and friend as he is, has a family and church to support. He gets more than just me knocking at his door. That's why I come here. That's why I whine here even if it's my fault.


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## Zanna (May 10, 2012)

That is not your gut talking, that is your head telling you to put on your running shoes and head for the hills.

That said, I am so sorry you are going through this. Your W sounds like a heartless b!tch but I know how hard it is to stop loving someone just because they treat you poorly. It takes awhile for the heart to catch up to the head. But this is one of those cases, where you really do need to let her go.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

The fact that you refused to divorce her even after walking in and finding her riding another man speaks volumes to me about your absolute lack of self respect and moral compass. 

I would go so far to say that you are as immoral as she is, because you stood by and did nothing.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

telling you what you already know is a waste. you would think after getting caught, she would not be getting drinks after work, orr doing anything that would make you uneasy, but she still does. sit your a** down and make a list of things you want her to do and not do. expectations, goals, and directions. then YOU decide what you want your life to be like 6 mo. from now, 1 yr, 18 mo. limbo and wasting your life sucks. if you don't have directions and goals in your marriage and life. you drift


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Young man, stop this foolish behavior now. LEAVE HER !!


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Sat her down, brought up everything. Told her how I felt without holding anything back (And that was harder than I expected even after going through it in my head over and over). Maintained my composure.

Her response was to open up all her email, phone records and be subjected to any physical tests (I don't know of any a doctor can do that can determine if she's had sex with someone else can be done) etc. 

I now have all her email, Facebook etc passwords. She has given me her bosses telephone number so that I can check in on her at work if I think she is late.

During the conversation she did shift the conversation to her miscarriage and how she's been dealing with it and feeling like less of a woman and a failure. She's 42. It took us a year to get pregnant only to have everything go bad at 4 weeks. Was this used as a way to avoid the topic at hand, yes. Did I let it stay this way, no.

Do I want things to be normal between us, yes. I can't deny it. Am I in the fog of 'cheated husband', if there is such a thing, then maybe. I sat down with my minister tonight. I let it all out. 

I have goals set for the next week, month and 3 months. If things go the way I hope with transparency, honesty being at the center, then I can start to believe that things can work out. If not, if things don't go the way I hope, then I'm working on an exit strategy. It's not as easy as it seems. I know many have commented on getting out ASAP...I wish it really were that easy. But I've made a basic plan in my head that no matter what, if things don't go the way I have set out then it's over...and as painful as it is to walk away from 10 yrs, I would do so knowing I did my best.


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## Complexity (Dec 31, 2011)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> During the conversation she did shift the conversation to her miscarriage and how she's been dealing with it and feeling like less of a woman and a failure. She's 42. It took us a year to get pregnant only to have everything go bad at 4 weeks. Was this used as a way to avoid the topic at hand, yes. Did I let it stay this way, no.


Dude, *do not* ignore this.


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## synonimous_anonymous (May 31, 2010)

Complexity said:


> Dude, *do not* ignore this.


I won't.


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## mackerel (May 22, 2012)

Lol, You know what time it is. File up those Divorce papers. Your wife is going to continue to this to you. I can pretty much guarantee she will cheat on you again. Plus you caught her in the act and didn't do a damn thing about it.

I don't understand, do you not feel that you can getter woman such as your current wife? If I were you I would go get a girl from a bar, and bring her in my bed, so my wife can see. Then dare that she would say something. All while telling her to shut the door and sign the papers on the table.

Step your Alpha up.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

If you have an iphone and you want to track her. You can setup an icloud account and have real time tracking. Best part is it is free. IF not att has a real time tracking device so you can look up where your wife is at anytime. I don't know if other carriers have the same thing but, something to consider. 
At this point though, even if you didn't plan on divorcing her, get papers drawn up. Make sure she knows that you are serious about not enabling her behavior.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

synonimous_anonymous said:


> I now have all her email, Facebook etc passwords. She has given me her bosses telephone number so that I can check in on her at work if I think she is late.


What if her new lover is her boss?


You're being played but good luck, we're looking forward to see you back here in another 2 years.


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## ralk (Jun 1, 2012)

I think people cheat when their attention is drawn to another and there is no real love or attraction towards their one and only. She knows she can get away with this kind of behaviour and I understand how you must feel...like the butterfly caught in the spiders web...but you know you need to escape...stay strong and hang in there, be gentle on your self and search for that strength within you. You sound like a decent person and you deserve to be understood and loved and to be in a relationship where you are respected -not taken advantage of


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