# Not exactly cheating



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

Hi all, fairly new to the forum. Before I get started with my post, mods please move this thread if you feel it's in the wrong forum. I honestly dont know where this belongs. Mental health issues maybe? 

So, this is going to be a bit long. I apologize for this but it's a long history to this situation. 

To protect the innocent I am not using real names for the people involved. 

People involved:
Myself 
My wife. We will call her Lily.
Wife's best friend. We will call her Violet.

Lily, Violet and I have known each other for many years. We all met through some mutual friends. We became close friends. Lily and Violet have a lot in common and openly tell each other they love each other. It's the love of a friend and not a romantic partner.

Violet and I also share a bond in friendship. I was her male confidant. Many times Lily, Violet and I would hang out. The ladies would go through severa bottles of wine. Inevitably Lily would pass out and Violet and I would talk late into the night. We never had physical contact outside of a hug as we parted ways. Never a hug without Lily present. Violet doesn't do anything for me in the way of physical attraction, then or now, and vice versa. Lily was always concious and present if a hug took place. Let me make this extra clear. Nothing has or will ever happen emotionally or physically between Violet and I. Ever. I don't cheat.

Life happened and we find ourselves living very far apart now. Well over a thousand miles apart. The girls still keep in daily contact. Violet got mareied shortly before Lily and I moved. She married a man and as it turns out, they both became extremely wealthy amost overnight. She is still the same person even with the ability to never work another day in her life. Their children's great grand kids won't have to work as long as the kids don't blow it all. 

Like Lily and me, Violet and hubby have two small kids. 

About twice a year we go as a family to visit Violet and her family at their ranch. Lily takes our kids a couple times a year without me (she has a lot more PTO than I do). It's always fun times except Violet's husband is a very peculiar fellow. He usually spends is time working around the ranch. They have ranch hands that do 99.9% of the work. He piddles around. He is antisocial so I understand he needs his time alone.

Violet confided to my wife that her husband has become increasingly paranoid over the years. Erratic behavior that has lead to one instance of physical abuse (he slapped Violet). More than one instance of verbal abuse that escalated to a point of him jumping up around on the furniture while brandishing a blade and threatening harm to himself. Lily told me about these incidents. To say that it angers me is an understatement. You don't strike a woman. Even if she is attacking you, as a man, you can only deflect the strikes and try to subdue her so she isn't harming anyone. You dont strike a woman. 

So that's the backstory of the relationships. In the winter we went to visit. During a chit chat session, and the girls having a bit more wine they each normally drinks, Violet admitted that her marriage has been sexless for over 2 years. She won't leave. The finances of their marriage are so complicated, plus his family having even deeper pocets, would result in her losing everything. The money doesn't matter. She worries she would lose the kids or that she would get full custody with nowhere to go and no place to house them. Some of her basis for losing the kids is that she has a glass of wine before dinner, while cooking, and a glass with the meal. He doesn't drink but on rare occasions. While it's ridiculous to think two glasses of wine a day is alcoholism we all know lawyers would spin that into she needs rehab. 

Here is where my problems start. I apologize, again, for the long back story. I hope it helps someone shine a light on my problems so I can solve them. About 6 weeks after our last visit I had a dream about Violet. The dream was sexual. Not a wet dream. There was no dreamt orgasm. That part was skipped in the dream. While I don't remember all the details I do remember some things clearly. To clearly. More like a vision than a dream. 

In the first dream, Violet and I were in a vehicle. We had apparently gone into town to pick up supplies. At least that's what I sort of remember as the reason we were in a vehice together. Somehow she ended up kissing me. I dont remember specifically how that happened but I do remember she initiated. We had sex but I don't remember the details of that part. I remember afterwards very clearly. Violet looked at me and said "I'm glad this happened. I know it's unfair to you and to Lily but I needed this and I needed it to be you". At that point I woke straight up. Wide awake. Stunned, confused, freaked out. A total mind****. I couldn't get back to sleep for hours. I felt an immense, overwhelming feeling of guilt. I couldn't wrap my head around what I had just dreamed/seen in my head.

I told my wife the next day. Telling her scared me as I worried it would cause her pain and might even screw up her friendship with Violet. Not telling her seemed like I was cheating. Look, I het that its a dream and that we have no control over dreams. Logically I get that but emotionally I was a total wreck. 

Since then I have had 3 other dreams about Violet. Two were similar in nature as the frst. The last, which was last night, was different. Last night was more complex. Violet and husband were arguing. About what I dont remember. This escalated to threats from him that he was throwing her and the kids out. He grabbed a bag and left the room, slamming a huge double door to the bedroom in the process. None of us have a bedroom door like this and the bedroom didnt look anything like what any of us have ever owned. She held out a hand to me as she was crying. She pulled me behind her to hug her. She was on her knees crying, face in the duvet on the bed. I comforted her with a hug. At some point she started to push her butt back against me. I was aroused by this and eventually pushed back. At this point I remember noticing she had on panties and the pushing was forcing slight, assumed, penetration. We both stopped. She asked me to lay with her on the bed. She snuggled up and cried and told me about what has been happening in her marriage. I can't remember any of what she said. Only that my heart was heavy and I felt despair. For clarification, during all the dreams I never felt love, romantic, sexually pleasing feelings. It has always been sadness, emotional pain, despair. Negative feelings. Anyway, we fell asleep. Right afte we dozed off her husband came back. For some reason the bedroom door was locked. We hadnt locked it. He hadnt locked it but it was locked. He used an ax to break the door open. Somehow this didn't wake either one of us. She woke when he opened the door though. I remember him saying he couldnt believe what he was seeing. We were both fully dressed and while she was beside me she had sat up as he opened the door. He went into a rage at that point. This is where my eyes snapped open and I was back in the real world. Mind****ed once again.

I've told my wife everything. All the details, at her request. I've left nothing out. It is during the recount of the dreams that I realized that there were no positive or pleasurable emotions in these dreams. No orgasms. No love. No desire even. I sit here writing this with a logical understanding I haven't done anything wrong. We can't control or dreams. Emotionally I feel devastated. I have an overwhelming guilt that I have cheated on my wife. Have I? I certainly dont recall ever touching another woman, especially Violet. Lily and I have a wonderful marriage. We want for very little in life, have a healthy sex life even though we do have more time between sessions than either would like due to raising two small kids and both having demanding careers. We make up for the time between by spending lots of time focusing on each other's pleasures when we do have sex. Emotionally we are as close as we have always been. Neither of us would step outside our marriage. We both know and trust that would never happen, never will happen.

These dreams are driving me insane. I don't know how to make them stop. I have chosen not to go with the family on our summer visit in a couple weeks because of the dreams. Im too uncomfortable to be around Violet. Violet knows nothing about the dreams. I dont have any contact wit her unless we are at the ranch and that is ALWAYS in the presence of Lily or her husband or family members. We have never been alone in a room together. If it looks like that situation could arise I excuse myself for the bathroom, even if I dont need to go. I do this so that her husband doesn't acuse her of infidelity. Lily has no worries about Violet and I being in a kitchen or living room alone. 

Lily is now worried about the recurrence of dreams about Violet. She is admitting she is emotionally hurt by the dreams. Logically she knows I cant control them. Her concern is that when I have had vivid dreams in the past they have come true. She says I have visions. I don't claim to be psychic. I'm not even sure I believe that is humanly possible. I do know that before Lily and I married I had vivid dreams about us. I would tell her and she was shocked that I was telling her about feelings she had she hadn't shared with me. She is concerned that something is going to happen that puts Violet and I in a relationship. The only way that could happen is with Lily dying, or possibly leaving me. Both are unlikely scenarios. Her health is great and she doesn't want to divorce me. That is what she tells me anyway. 

So I am open to advice on what these dreams may mean and how to make them go away. Lily and I haven't spoken about Violet in weeks so the power of suggestion doesnt seem to be in play. I really want these dreams to stop. If you have any advice I am open to trying almost anything at this point. 

One final tidbit of info. Lily told Violet that I wouldn't be visiting this trip because I dont have enough PTO. This is true but my company would let me work remotely so that I could join my family. Violet inquired if I would consider coming up at least for a day. Since its a flight up and back this seemed like a waste of money. Violet offered to pay airfare if I want to come up for a day. This is odd. I don't visit everytime my wife and kids go, as stated at the start. Violet has never made this offer before. She has surprised us with plane tickets for a visit but this, per Lily, seemed different. I cautioned Lily that she and I have a different outlook on the matter because of my dreams so we shouldn't read into it. 

Should I ask Lily to talk to Violet about the dreams? As I told Lily, the best I can come up with is that I feel like Violet is in danger of some kind. Not telling her and having something bad happen to her or her family would be devastating. We would feel partially responsible. Telling her could be devastating as well. Would it set up a self fulfilling prophecy? Does it plant a seed in Violet that doesnt need to be planted? She is an engineer by trade and training so she is very logic based. This is partially why we all get along so well. Lily is an engineer and I am a software developer. My mind is so twisted up that I know I am rambling. I can't focus on work at the moment and desperately need to. 

Thanks in advance to anyone who read this and responds.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You should have kept the dreams to yourself and seen a counselor.

Your dreams are because you are under stress about how your good friend is being treated. She’s being abused and doesn’t have someone strong n her corner.

If they got rich after they married she owns half the wealth. She just needs to make sure she has great lawyers.

Otherwise you just have to hope she survives.


----------



## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I don't have anything to add about your situation, but I loved your work in Idiocracy!


----------



## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

It sounds like your dreams are simply in response to your desire to help your longtime friend. A part of you sees the suffering she's going through, and the sexual/intimate nature of how your dreams are presenting could be a manifestation of the level of care (not romantic, but deep caring) you hold for her. It's clear that the situation she's in bothers you immensely and this might be your mind's way of working through the degrees of platonic love, protection and sense of honor you have toward her happiness. 

A lot of people forget that there are numerous types of love that someone can experience, not just platonic vs romantic. Unfortunately the English language (and most of Western culture) is severely limited in expressing these variations of love, so people are not always comfortable or aware of which type they might be dealing with. 

So for simplicity sake, you love her (not in a sexual/romantic way), and seeing someone you love in pain will obviously bring out a degree of desired defense for said person. 

It's wonderful that you have an open communication with your wife about it and I would rely a lot on her more logical approach since that will keep things in the realm of objectivity. I would not disclose any of this to violet, at least in terms of the nature of the dreams because she might not be able to objectively understand the manifestation of your care. Instead, it might help for you and your wife to work as a team to find ways to offer safety, compassion, and friendship (together as a unit) for your mutual friend. It helps that there is a physical distance between you so that these feelings don't get misinterpreted and turn into a misdirected effort of care (bordering emotional affair), so try to utilize that distance to your benefit. 

I think trying to talk it out with your wife will help a lot, and knowing to give yourself the time and space to work through it will also be good. Are there any activities that you find particularly pensive/meditating that might give you an opportunity to sort through your own thoughts in a waking state? It might help to take an opportunity to simply let your thoughts rise and drift away since it'll get it out and not fester or become obsessive (which your fear of them will eventually lead to if you're not careful). You have train your mind to approach these dreams and thoughts sort of like the way clouds are in the sky. It's perfectly fine to take notice of them, appreciate them for what they are, and then allow them to dissipate. Don't cling to them or form attachment to them because that's how one gives form to them. Let them be.


----------



## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

No you don't tell violet, dreams are rarely literal. Your feelings of wanting to protect your friend is what is causing them. I think everyone has had a sex dream about someone they would never sleep with in real life. The brain is a very strange organ, If i was going to attempt to psychoanalyze your dreams, they have nothing to do with you but they are your projection of what Violet needs in her life, protection, affection and sex.


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

My wife's best friend has been a friend of mine longer than my wife. After her divorce she came to live with us. Our story is not as long and complicated as yours. We just had a threesome and continued to have them for the next 30 years, even after our girlfriend got married to a guy aware that she would be living with us part time. It does not have to be complicated if you do not accept society's version of marriage as the only one with no alternative.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> You should have kept the dreams to yourself and seen a counselor.
> 
> Your dreams are because you are under stress about how your good friend is being treated. She’s being abused and doesn’t have someone strong n her corner.
> 
> ...


I considered keeping them to myself. Initially, the first dream, I tried to but my wife could see I was visibly upset. Lying to her isn't an option. That's a slippery slope I won't attempt with my marriage. 

I have tried counseling in the past for vivid dreams. Ive never seen a woman cry like that poor lady cried when I opened up the Pandora's box inside my head. She said she couldn't help me. 

Thanks for your response. You're reinforcing what my wife and I both assume. I feel a need to protect my friend. Violet and I first connected as friends the night of Lily and I getting married. We had a destination wedding and somehow the after after party ended up in our hotel room. Lily passed out on the bed and the party kept going. Around 3AM most people left. Violet and I started talking and she was white girl wasted which lead to her breaking down emotionally. Typically crying drunk girl or so I thought. We knew she had been seeing a guy. Turns out she found out at the reception, via text from his wife, that he was married. She had no idea. Devastated is an understatement. So I talked her off the mental ledge and escorted her back to her room. I helped her get partially undressed, which this wasn't the first time I had helped her to do this, to get her to bed. The closeness of that night formed a bond between us as friends. I guess it's still there even though I dont communicate wth with her outside of visiting her ranch. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

tech-novelist said:


> I don't have anything to add about your situation, but I loved your work in Idiocracy!


It is one of my favorite pieces of work. Truly meant as a cheesy comedy yet it is becoming closer and closer to a documentary with each passing day. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

President_Not_Sure said:


> I have an overwhelming guilt that I have cheated on my wife. Have I?


No. You have not. Our dreams are not something we control. However, they do generally tell us something about what is going on inside us.

You are bonded to Violet, from all the conversations in the past. Violet offering to pay for you to come even for one day is a "red flag". Violet is very vulnerable right now, and may be more likely to cheat on her husband. If she is going to, you would be her closest candidate.....

You are not in any kind of "prophecy". Your dreams should serve you well as a "warning".....there is danger...keep vigilant, guard your heart. You would be more likely, if you were going to cheat, to do it with Violet than with any other woman, because the "prelude" to it has already played out. For both of you.

I think that is the clear "message" of your dream. You and Violet are not having an affair. But one would happen between you very quickly if neither of you maintained control.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

ButWeAreStrange said:


> It sounds like your dreams are simply in response to your desire to help your longtime friend. A part of you sees the suffering she's going through, and the sexual/intimate nature of how your dreams are presenting could be a manifestation of the level of care (not romantic, but deep caring) you hold for her. It's clear that the situation she's in bothers you immensely and this might be your mind's way of working through the degrees of platonic love, protection and sense of honor you have toward her happiness.
> 
> A lot of people forget that there are numerous types of love that someone can experience, not just platonic vs romantic. Unfortunately the English language (and most of Western culture) is severely limited in expressing these variations of love, so people are not always comfortable or aware of which type they might be dealing with.
> 
> ...


Thank you. This is what both my wife and I have concluded. I just wish they would stop. I don't understand why after years of living so far apart, and knowing the martal troubles have existed for much longer than the dreams, that the dreams have started. 

I wish I understood why I feel so damn guilty. My logic based thought process cannot resolve the emotions. As I stated in a response above, Violet and I became close under strange circumstances. To be clear, my wife instructed me early in the evening of our wedding night to make certain Violet made it to bed safely. That is why I escorted her to her room. That is why I helped her out of her dress. Her underwear was stll on and I didnt touch her skin. I also told my wife the full details the next morning. She kissed me and thanked me for watching over her friend. She knows I will never cheat on her. Hell, I cant even keep a dream to myself. How do you think I would do with an affair?! Impossible. 

The group of friends we hung out with was split boys/girls. I didnt care for the other guys as they had what I felt to be a 'barefoot and pregnant' mentality towards the girls. So I ended up hanging with the girls most of the time. At one time or another I have held hair while those girls puked, undressed them when they puked on themselves and have seen them all run around naked on the way to/from the jacuzzi. My wife instructed me to watch over and take care of these girls. Never once did anything improper occur over the many instances of the girls hanging out. You may disagree that me seeing other women undressed was improper. Maybe it is but it wasn't without my wife's knowledge, permission of all adults involved and in many cases instructions to help out someone who drank too much. I treated it as one would a visit to a doctor. Its a naked body. I have seen many. Im not a hormone fueled teenager so it wasnt arousing. 

I never had dreams about any of those girls. Violet was there for those events. I never thought twice about anyone except my wife.

Im not focused or rehashing the imagery in my head. Im letting go. It just makes it difficult to go to sleep worrying I will have another dream. I have many vivid dreams. Lucid dreams I think is the medical definition. That makes sleep elusive enough. Adding these dreams to my world makes it so much worse. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

Not sure how the above helps the OP, when he's terrified, and freaking out about the dream he just had with his friend.
Not to mention how his wife took the news about the dreams.

Just saying, threesome can be great fantasy and sometimes in real life with two Eff buddies, but not with your wife and eat friend. If it did work for you then hey congrats.

In this instance it's the last thought he needs.

S1

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## Suspicious1 (Nov 19, 2017)

That respond to Vinny's post.


Suspicious1 said:


> Not sure how the above helps the OP, when he's terrified, and freaking out about the dream he just had with his friend.
> Not to mention how his wife took the news about the dreams.
> 
> Just saying, threesome can be great fantasy and sometimes in real life with two Eff buddies, but not with your wife and eat friend. If it did work for you then hey congrats.
> ...


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

TJW said:


> No. You have not. Our dreams are not something we control. However, they do generally tell us something about what is going on inside us.
> 
> You are bonded to Violet, from all the conversations in the past. Violet offering to pay for you to come even for one day is a "red flag". Violet is very vulnerable right now, and may be more likely to cheat on her husband. If she is going to, you would be her closest candidate.....
> 
> ...


Thank you. That is a take I hadn't considered. I tried not to see the one day trip offer as anything other than a friend missing a friend. This is likely a fool's assessment of the situation. I do know without any doubt I will never cheat on my wife. 

My dad cheated on my mom. A lot. I saw the devastation his actions had on her and on my brother and I. I am not proud of it but he and I ended up an many fist fights over it. I hate to think about all of that as it was 2 years ago today he went into a coma he never came out of. This is also the same day my daughter was born, also 2 years ago. That subconscious stress could explain last night's dream but not the others. Let me tell you it was a difficult day two years ago. I wanted to feel the overwhelming joy of my daughter coming into the world. She was 3 weeks premature so we were already worried about her. She had some trouble breathing right after birth so wr feared lung development issues. Thank God it was just amniotic mucus that the nurses hadnt removed completely. She did have some issues with eating and digestion which we found out a day or so later. The mix of joy and sadness was horrifc. Beaming with pride while holding my daughter, with my son snuggled up with us. While also crying because my dad was a plane ride away and I knew he would be dead before I could see him again. Life can be cruel sometimes 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

My friend's wives would all be popping out my progeny if dreams had a foothold in reality.

Both of you need to support Violet and stop fretting about dreams.

Help your friend get out of this abusive and sexless marriage.

P.S. Don't f Violet!!!


----------



## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

hmmmm...
Seems (to me) like you have a lot of good intentions, especially in regards to "Lilly."
Of course the path to hell/ruin is paved with good intentions...

It also seems that you easily and willfully fall into the protector/knight-in-shining-armor role for women... gotta be real careful about whom you are protecting and essentially what is driving your motivation to "protect."

Not to say you have bad intentions, but its easy to fall into a role and NOT understand how or why you got there and the how/why may surprise you.


Seems to me a dangerous situation and your need to "help" and full honesty may be more of a hindrance than a help in YOUR life and YOUR marriage.

Might be good to step back and really look at the situation and what your relationship to Lilly is really about... (your mom?).


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

PretzelLogic said:


> hmmmm...
> Seems (to me) like you have a lot of good intentions, especially in regards to "Lilly."
> Of course the path to hell/ruin is paved with good intentions...
> 
> ...


I'm assuming you mean Violet. In this conversation I used the name Lily for my wife. 

I have always been more comfortable hanging out with women. The conversations are always more interesting and well thought out in response to questions. That stems from my curiosity of the female mind and body in my teen/formative years. 

I can even pinpoint the moment when I initially felt less than adequate as a male. I was in 7th grade, listening to girls who had never seen a flesh and blood penis chatter on about how this musician or that musician have a foot long member hanging between their legs. I knew I didnt "measure up" if 12 inches was the desired length. I made it my mission to learn everything I could about the female body and mind so that when it came time for me to pleasure a woman I would make up for my perceived lack of manhood. 

My research and the resulting knowledge has given me insights most men don't have about female thoughts and desires. This allows me to speak with women closer to their feelings. I am "comfortable" to talk to is what I am told. I suppose I could use the knowledge for less than honorable purposes but thats simply not who I am. Im still the self conscious pre teen who didnt understand that a penis of that length isn't really common, or desired by most women. 

My intentions are no different for Violet than they are for any of our current friends. To be a good friend. Thats it. Thats all it will ever be. If the day were to come that I didnt want to be with my wife I would divorce her BEFORE I ever touched another woman. My wife is not my first wife. When my ex and I divorced I remained faithful until the court approved the signed paperwork. I didnt do that for anyone but myself. I was still legally married even though the marriage was over emotionally. I wanted to have a clear concious that I had remained faithful until the marriage was fully dissolved. 

I appreciate your take on the situation. I do disagree. I know myself and the suggestions that there is a deep seeded psychological issue that is driving this just isn't accurate. Not just the dreams but the kindness and protective nature of my personality. Being kind and nurturing and protective aren't bad things even if they are pointed towards the opposite sex. I dont believe that every person is capable of cheating or willing to cheat if the situation becomes available. I have had the opportunity to cheat and I didnt. I wouldn't and I let my ex wife know her friend had hit on me while she was out of town. It would've been easy to say yes. The thing is I wouldnt be able to say on my deathbed that I never cheated on anyone. I've made it this far, at least halfway there I figure, so why ruin a good thing.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## PretzelLogic (Jan 16, 2018)

President_Not_Sure said:


> I'm assuming you mean Violet. In this conversation I used the name Lily for my wife.
> 
> I have always been more comfortable hanging out with women. The conversations are always more interesting and well thought out in response to questions. That stems from my curiosity of the female mind and body in my teen/formative years.
> 
> ...



Oops yes meant Violet rather than Lilly, got my flowers crossed...
I freely admit that I skimmed your response to me.. why? I know what your saying, I have said a lot of what you are saying here....
I too preferred the company of women...
I too had (have) a hard time relating to men...

Do you have a lot of male friends?

I am not necessarily saying there is some deep psychological issue here, but rather you have created an issue through trying to not be the "typical man."

Someone could spout off about reading No More Mr. Nice Guy (NMMNG) and Alpha/beta traits and blah blah blah... but we are who we are.

I personally am a terminal nice guy, I am everyone's (especially women) shoulder to cry on and confide in.
I too became this (~ high school) as a means to compete with what I saw as the "stronger/better" men (popular, jocks etc.) and hey it worked.


Kind and nurturing ARE good traits, no argument.
To the point they put a marriage at risk... well that's a whole 'nother.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

PretzelLogic said:


> Oops yes meant Violet rather than Lilly, got my flowers crossed...
> I freely admit that I skimmed your response to me.. why? I know what your saying, I have said a lot of what you are saying here....
> I too preferred the company of women...
> I too had (have) a hard time relating to men...
> ...


I agree. I dont have any fear of my marriage being at risk. My sanity is a different subject. My marriage has survived worse. My wife did accuse me of an affair at one point. It was a complete misunderstanding of a social media comment. Not by her but her well-meaning friends. Gossip turned drama and I found her very angry with me. The comment referenced the Skinny Girl brand of alcoholic beverages. I told a female work associate to enjoy her skinny girl margarita. The lack of capitalization was the trigger. The rumor mill cranked up and the next thing I know I am being accused of an affair.

I was pissed over the accusation BUT I knew that I had to squash it correctly. I took a voluntary lie detector test and presented the results to my wife. I broke all contact with the work associate. I did this quitting my job. I left zero doubt in my wife that I had been unfaithful. To this day I randomly ask her if there is doubt and what I can do to reassure her it never happened. She says she has no doubts so I believe her. 

Ive never been accused of being a "nice guy". Quite the opposite. I'm more apt to be engaged to deal with the abussive spouse or to have difficult conversations with the SO of the female who has engaged my advice and assistance. I don't claim to be some kind of Billy Badass. That's not the case, at least in my mind. My wife refers to me as a loveable *******. I have little to no filtering mechanisms.i will tell you bluntly what I think. Whether you like that or not is up to you. 

I apply my, likely considered poor, attitude about life to the knowledge gained over years of conversations with women, about women with women and the research I did early on life. Its not concious application but I can recognize it if I pay attention. Why women feel comfortable with me I dont fully understand still. Either way, I am, like you, the shoulder to cry on. You can have a hug, a shoulder, even a friendly kiss on the cheek but it goes no farther and my wife needs to be present or provided me the directive to console you. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

President my man, sounds like you're in the twilight zone. How do you know you ain't nailing Violet behind Lily's back and dreaming you're writing into TAM? My suggestion is when you weak up thinking you dreamt you nailing Violet down at the ranch, look at your shoes and see it there is bull **** on them.


----------



## Rgaines (Jun 13, 2018)

Chaparral said:


> You should have kept the dreams to yourself and seen a counselor.
> 
> Your dreams are because you are under stress about how your good friend is being treated. She’s being abused and doesn’t have someone strong n her corner.
> 
> ...


I also don't think you should have told your wife these dreams. Nor do I think she should tell Violet. That said, often people dream things without realizing that something they didn't allow themselves to see, hear, or be aware of, initiated the subconscious thoughts that are being played out in dreams. I have no idea if that is so in this case. I agree that you've had these dreams because you feel protective toward Violet. There isn't any other info given that could lead to another conclusion. Of course we can only respond to the info given in any of these threads.

Anyway, violet isn't your responsibility and you are right about being in a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation if your wife discloses your dreams. personally I hope she doesn't, but that's out of your control. 

As far as feeling guilty for having dreams. You're cerebral enough to realize that you aren't in control of your dreams and therefore aware enough to know that you can forgive yourself your dreams, and stop feeling guilty for having them.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You didn't cheat. Dreams are innocent, and out of your control. But, to be honest, you think way too much about Violet. I get she's a friend, but now she's having marital problems, and you need to have some boundaries, as Lily's husband. My personal opinion, your dreams are sort of a subconscious glimpse into the fact that the boundaries could get blurred. Be careful.


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I disagree with many here. I applaud you for telling your wife your dreams. We here at TAM are always spouting the importance of transparency in marriage, but when you come along and tell us how you shared your dreams with your wife, many here castigate you. That's not right. 

I think you need to go see a counselor to help you through this. Your fear for your female friend triggers your male instinct to protect her. There is nothing wrong with that in and of itself. But then when you sleep your Triune (reptile) brain interferes with your dreams and perverts that instinct to protect her into the sexual need to dominate and procreate with her. 

This is nothing you can control. You are sexually attracted to Violet. Again, that is normal and nothing to be ashamed of as long as you control that urge and stay true to your wife. There are a lot of women I know and work with to whom I am sexually attracted, but my personal boundaries keep me from acting on it. 

Get into some psychological counseling. There may be ways to get these dreams under control.


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I think I'd feel awkward time after time, sitting up late at night, if my husband passed out from too much wine, talking to one of his good male friends. Our good friends.

Actually, my husband was once ''just a friend.'' lol So, friends can become more than friends. We have mutual friends, and we all spend time together, some of them are single. Some are women and some are men. There's nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex, but when your wife falls asleep OP, it's time to call it a night, and ''Violet'' should feel that way, too. Blurring of boundaries happens gradually...and I wouldn't be shocked at all, if Violet pursues you, if you show positive signs that her own husband isn't showing. 

We're all just flesh and bones, at the end of the day.


----------



## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

President_Not_Sure said:


> I considered keeping them to myself. Initially, the first dream, I tried to but my wife could see I was visibly upset. Lying to her isn't an option. That's a slippery slope I won't attempt with my marriage.


Fair enough, but don't tell Violet! 



> I have tried counseling in the past for vivid dreams. Ive never seen a woman cry like that poor lady cried when I opened up the Pandora's box inside my head. She said she couldn't help me.


You could find a better counselor, if you want to work on it.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

bandit.45 said:


> You are sexually attracted to Violet.


That's the thing though, I am not sexually attracted to her. At least not in my concious mind. I never have been. She's just not my type. I have always been attracted to brunettes and redheads. She is dirty blonde. I like tall slender women as I am 6'1" and shorter women make many aspects of a physical relationship awkward. Violet is 5' even and while petite she isn't a body type I find sexually arousing. 



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> President my man, sounds like you're in the twilight zone. How do you know you ain't nailing Violet behind Lily's back and dreaming you're writing into TAM? My suggestion is when you weak up thinking you dreamt you nailing Violet down at the ranch, look at your shoes and see it there is bull **** on them.


It would certainly not clarify anything if there was bull**** on my shoes. They dont raise cattle. I believe that would certainly confuse the situation even more. There is an irony of a "vampire" telling me I am in the twilight zone. Thanks for the unhelpful condescending response though. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> You didn't cheat. Dreams are innocent, and out of your control. But, to be honest, you think way too much about Violet. I get she's a friend, but now she's having marital problems, and you need to have some boundaries, as Lily's husband. My personal opinion, your dreams are sort of a subconscious glimpse into the fact that the boundaries could get blurred. Be careful.


I appreciate the response. I can understand how you would assume that I think about Violet too much after resding this thread. I do classify her as a friend but we dont communicate outside of the couple times a year I am at their ranch. Aside from these dreams she doesn't cross my concious mind. She and my wife text and/or talk daily. My wife doesn't share with me their conversations. I don't inquire about her. Without sounding rude or uncaring, she just doesn't cross my mind. Honestly. 

I have no reason to lie to myself or to you about that. This is why I am so damned confused about where these dreams come from. If I was hearing from my wife even once a week about Violet then I could infer an association with the power of suggestion. I may hear something once every few months. Writing here today is the most Ive thought about Violet since I've known her. Even in my pondering of WHY I have the dreams I am not thinking about the content of the dreams. 

Since we live around 1800 miles apart and have for about 7 years now, the late night conversations no longer exist. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I wouldn't worry over it too much, then. Dreams about others, even sexual dreams, don't necessarily mean much.


----------



## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

President_Not_Sure said:


> It would certainly not clarify anything if there was bull**** on my shoes. They dont raise cattle. I believe that would certainly confuse the situation even more. There is an irony of a "vampire" telling me I am in the twilight zone. Thanks for the unhelpful condescending response though.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


 I think he may be saying "ye doth protest too much" on the non-attraction/never cheat Violet thing.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

Rubix Cubed said:


> I think he may be saying "ye doth protest too much" on the non-attraction/never cheat Violet thing.


My apologies then. Ive read enough on this forum to realize you have to make your position undeniably clear or someone will inevitably conclude you should immediately file for divorce for being a worthless human. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This might be a leap, but maybe deep down, you miss Violet. There's a reason you're confused and over thinking this, and it doesn't have to be that you're interested in Violet in a sexual way, or romantic way even, but it could be that you miss her, in some way. We don't spend time thinking about things we don't care about. We are all just guessing.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Definitely do not tell Violet about these dreams, that would complicate your relationship. It may insert or inflame feelings from her direction to you. And that would just make things worse.

But if you keep avoiding her, I don't think this gets fixed. In fact, seeing her live may actually trigger an end to these dreams, replacing something real for something that isn't.

I'd take her up on the offer and go see her. Your wife is already on board here. It'll be better than you think.


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

*Deidre* said:


> This might be a leap, but maybe deep down, you miss Violet. There's a reason you're confused and over thinking this, and it doesn't have to be that you're interested in Violet in a sexual way, or romantic way even, but it could be that you miss her, in some way. We don't spend time thinking about things we don't care about. We are all just guessing.


Thank you for a different angle to look at this oddness. I suppose it is possible that I miss her. That wouldn't be the norm for me. I have lived many places and, as heartless as it sounds, leave behind the people I once knew. It's not that I don't care for them. I simply accept that life has me on a different fork in the road from them. Trying to hold onto relationships with close friends has never been my way. I just don't feel the need. If I am moving to a new life, a new place, why attempt to drag along my past. People move in and out of our lives. That's part of life. 

This thread has given me some things to ponder when I have the time to stop and think. Life, work, children, are the things that occupy my mind while awake. I spent a few hours here seeking input. I think it is lost on many that my focus is on why the dreams are triggered and not the people in the dreams. All of my discussions here havent led to a recurrence of dreams about Violet. It's not concious thoughts of her or power of suggestion via hearing about her from my wife. Whatever it is that triggers the dreams is still a mystery. Currently my pain levels are very high so I don't sleep much. That gives me a slight reprieve from the normal horrors of my dreams. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

Gabriel said:


> Definitely do not tell Violet about these dreams, that would complicate your relationship. It may insert or inflame feelings from her direction to you. And that would just make things worse.
> 
> But if you keep avoiding her, I don't think this gets fixed. In fact, seeing her live may actually trigger an end to these dreams, replacing something real for something that isn't.
> 
> I'd take her up on the offer and go see her. Your wife is already on board here. It'll be better than you think.


Thank you for the advice. My wife and I spoke about this briefly. We aren't going to discuss with Violet but my wife is going to see if she can find out if something bad is going on with her marriage that we don't already know about. 

As for me going to visit, not this trip. I have too much on my plate with work that has to be done before we take a family vacation at the end of July. 

I do agree that there is a risk of opening feelings back my direction. That was the concern I raised with my wife. Her concern was that something bad is going to happen. She feels this way based on dreams I have had in the past that revealed as truth weeks or months in the future. 

I had a dream several times about her ex husband. I didn't really know her that well except as another member of a forum. The dream was of him collapsing in a specific airport. Heart attack or stroke, some major medical emergency. I only knew it was him because of a picture she used as her avatar. I chose to tell her about the dream after she disclosed they were going on an unplanned trip due to a death in her family. She disclosed her flight plans didnt carry them through that airport. Short story their return flight was rerouted and he indeed had a stroke in the airport in my dreams.

This is one of dozens of dreams over the course of my life, and many since we have been married, that turned out to be true. How or why this happens I don't begin to understand. I know there is no way I could have caused these things to happen. 

I think it more likely that we are all connected as humans in ways science still hasn't uncovered. It could also be a huge number of coincidences and too much LSD in my youth. I don't see how the latter would really explain the specifics of the dreams arriving in reality but I suppose anything is possible, even if its not probable. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Whatever you do don't take Ambien you will end up at Violet's house.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

President_Not_Sure said:


> This is one of dozens of dreams over the course of my life, and many since we have been married, that turned out to be true. How or why this happens I don't begin to understand. I know there is no way I could have caused these things to happen.
> 
> I think it more likely that we are all connected as humans in ways science still hasn't uncovered.


Your dreams are evidence of these connections. Neither do I understand the mechanism of this "connection", but I so know that it exists, because of dreams in my own life which have pointed to things which occur in the future..... thankfully, my intellect has been my "executive" and allowed me to avoid some things which would have not been good.

People might say I'm "crazy" - but I have learned to trust my dreams to reveal the thoughts of my "heart" (for lack of a better word),,,I also know that there is a separate "train" of thought carried out by our brains. This separate process finds "communication" to our "rational" thought process through dreams. 

Of course, I have no scientific evidence, only my own observation and that of others who speak of "it" (whatever "it" is .....)


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Whatever you do don't take Ambien you will end up at Violet's house.


Lol, yeah, no. I have been prescribed Ambien several times in my life. It doesn't affect me as the manufacturer intended. I get a bit dizzy and sluggish but that's it. I certainly don't get intoxicated to a point of black out, while presenting myself as sober enough to drive to an airport, buy a ticket, make it through a TSA checkpoint, board a flight and rent a vehicle once I land. I have never ingested any chemical cocktail that would lead me to do something I have no concious desire to do. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## President_Not_Sure (Feb 28, 2018)

TJW said:


> Your dreams are evidence of these connections. Neither do I understand the mechanism of this "connection", but I so know that it exists, because of dreams in my own life which have pointed to things which occur in the future..... thankfully, my intellect has been my "executive" and allowed me to avoid some things which would have not been good.
> 
> People might say I'm "crazy" - but I have learned to trust my dreams to reveal the thoughts of my "heart" (for lack of a better word),,,I also know that there is a separate "train" of thought carried out by our brains. This separate process finds "communication" to our "rational" thought process through dreams.
> 
> Of course, I have no scientific evidence, only my own observation and that of others who speak of "it" (whatever "it" is .....)


I guess that makes us both nuttier than grandma's fruitcake. ;-)

The theories, and subsequent positive tests of those theories, surrounding entangled particles does allow for, as of yet unexplained, connections between objects. But those are particles, not people. Twins have spoken about the ablity to feel the emotions of their sibling even when separated by great distances. We dont bat an eye at their claims and I don't recall anyone calling them crazy. I have heard it referred to as a special bond between twins. I don't recall anyone thinking them crazy. 

Anyway, whether or not my dreams mean anything will be determined later. I hope that they don't. I can't imagine a scenario where they would become reality that wouldn't be the result of the loss of my wife and children. That makes me physically nauseous to even write, much less try to consider pondering. I hope Violet is okay. My wife is much closer to her these days. If something bad is going on she will find out. Until then I am going to hope that no more dreams occur involving her and I can get back to my standard horror and terror filled dreams. At least those don't bother me. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------

