# Alone Time and Trips



## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I don't want to hijack the thread going on about vacation without kids.

First of all on the how could a getaway FROM THE KIDS weekend be an inapropriate gift for her birthday because its really for him?I'll tell you how if my husband knew from previous experience and my expressing it in general it caused me emotional distress and I could not relax or enjoy myself leaving behind our small children. BUT though it was something I knew he REALLY wanted to do then if I agreed it would really about what HE wanted not me.In fact he knew its something I didn't want then DUH its not a "gift" to me.

How can giving somebody something they don't want but you do for their birthday for both of you?Something they would not like but you would is not FOR THEM its for you.

Also the whole idea too that its somehow crucial to do this "get away from the kids OVERNIGHT" in order to stay connected is BS.

For some its something they both desire and they have the means to do it.For others it would be nice but its not that important or they have no means.And for others one or both at least when the kids are younger can NOT relax and are distracted worrying about them especially if you are many miles away from them.I do not think that means you do not have an identity or that you do not value your marriage or care less about your spouse than your children.

But the bigger point is that you very well can stay "connected" with your spouse with out ever let alone regularly being in a completely different location (address) from the kids for over night .That somehow your marriage is broken if you cant (no means) or wont because it makes you uncomfortable that you have to have an unhealthy view of whats normal for a couple is insulting to me.

And by the way I DID leave my children overnight I was comfortable with it but that is NOT what kept my husband and I "connected" it was nice for a change is all.But just because I was O.K with it doesn't give me the right to tell another person they have an unhealthy attitude about marriage or that it means they put the kids above their spouse or that they must have completely lost their identity in the kids.Or that they "forgot they were a wife or a husband".That they have lost site of whats important or are neglecting their marriage.


They could just as easily with that attitude of" how I feel about it is the "healthy view"" say that my husband and I are abnormal for looking forward to dumping our kids and"getting away from them" that we must not love them as much as we do ourselves if we enjoyed that sometimes .Or maybe I have a very weak marriage if we "needed that" to stay connected.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If she did not want to go on this get-away weekend, the time to tell him was when he asked her.. not the night before they were to leave. Not after he paid for the beach house.

She apparently had plenty of time to tell him that she did not want to go.

We also need to keep in mind that this is a woman who has been ignoring her husband for a long time. Their marriage is shaky at best because he is feeling very ignored. She is not exactly a very sympathetic wife. It's apparently her way or no way all the time.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> If she did not want to go on this get-away weekend, the time to tell him was when he asked her.. not the night before they were to leave. Not after he paid for the beach house.
> 
> She apparently had plenty of time to tell him that she did not want to go.


:iagree:

I definitely think her timing could have been improved upon. He was looking forward to this trip and thought she was too. To look forward to something and then be disappointed like this at the last minute has to really suck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Also the whole idea too that its somehow crucial to do this "get away from the kids OVERNIGHT" in order to stay connected is BS.


Apparently the OP on that thread needs some alone time with his wife.

He feels that he is trying to help their relationship.

What he needs/wants is equally as important as what she needs/wants.

The issue is how to balance it so that both of them get what they need/want.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> :iagree:
> 
> I definitely think her timing could have been improved upon. He was looking forward to this trip and thought she was too. To look forward to something and then be disappointed like this at the last minute has to really suck.


I feel if maybe she had said her views on it earlier,he would have been totally fine with it and rearranged the plans to suit her better.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

Over the course of our marriage, we haven't had the luxury of a lot of nights away from the kids. However, we did make a lot of time to spend alone together without the kids. Day trips on our own, spending time in the living room and having the kids in their rooms.

With this new addition to our family and the two of us being more mature and stable, I am hoping to be able to do that.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

O.K exactly HE needed it she doesn't.(specifically a trip away overnight without DD "alone time"..cuz "alone time " has to be happening already or she would not be pregnant again unless the DD was with them when that happened?) ..But he "needs and wants" it why say its HER b-day present?For me a birthday present should be something I need or want not the person that gave it to me .

Happy birthday! Here my gift to you is something I NEED and I WANT.That YOU DONT.

If I LOVE dancing and my husband feels very uncomfortable and awkward and never dances..I wouldn't give him couples dance lessons for us to take for HIS b-day present.If he said "sorry that's for you not me" I wouldn't say SORRY I was just trying to give you something I think would help the marriage because I WANT it for us for YOUR b-day.

But the bigger point I was making was on the idea that you "need" to get away OVERNIGHT from your children in order to connect.If you DONT need it or you CANT have it that would mean you can not possibly be connected with your spouse .And or if the reason you dont ever do it is fear of leaving little ones over night then you dont care about your spouse/lost your identity/forgot you are a wife etc.I think is BS.

Its very rare now that my husband and I are "alone together" over night with no children in the house(our kids are older too) let alone off on a "get away" and we are definately as I sit here now very "connected".I cant remember the last time we were "alone together over night" we do not depend on that and we are CONNECTED.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> How can giving somebody something they don't want but you do for their birthday for both of you?Something they would not like but you would is not FOR THEM its for you.


Because sometimes they are wrong? 

I have not followed the original thread, but I can relate on my own experience. My wife was against leaving our first son alone. It really bothered her, even getting a babysitter for a couple of hours. Yet I could see that her focus on our son to the exclusion of everything else was hurting her and us. Discussing did not help her see it.

So I made arrangements for a four day trip to Las Vegas with her knowledge. Arranged a show and dinner, got my folks to take our son and told her all about it. She did almost not go, but I convinced her she (and we) needed it. Though it was not a gift for her birthday or anything like that, she very likely thought this was for me and not her.

And yet two days into the trip she thanked me and admitted that she was wrong. Yes, she missed the kids. But the break, with us reconnecting, was huge and she loved it. The trip was a gift for her, even if she did not recognize it at the time.

Sometimes, we can be our own worst enemies (and I am not exempting myself). I can easily imagine a scenario where a gift is in fact intended for the spouse even if it does not appear that way initially.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

He probably thought that she needs and wants time with him. Go figure they are married. It's not unusual for married people to want to spend time together.

Again... she had a chance to tell him early on that this is not what she wanted for her birthday. Instead she led him on.


Some are acting like he did something horrible. Many people would love a weekend on the beach with their spouse as a b-day present. I'd be ready for that is a heart beat.

It was not unreasonable for him to think it was a good present. It was unreasonable for her to wait until the day before to tell him she was not interested. 

What she did was cruel.. waiting for the last minute and then acting like he's wrong for being upset.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> But the bigger point I was making was on the idea that you "need" to get away OVERNIGHT from your children in order to connect.If you DONT need it or you CANT have it that would mean you can not possibly be connected with your spouse .And or if the reason you dont ever do it is fear of leaving little ones over night then you dont care about your spouse/lost your identity/forgot you are a wife etc.I think is BS.
> 
> Its very rare now that my husband and I are "alone together" over night with no children in the house(our kids are older too) let alone off on a "get away" and we are definately as I sit here now very "connected".I cant remember the last time we were "alone together over night" we do not depend on that and we are CONNECTED.


Having now read the other thread, isn't the problem with your premise the fact that for the wife in that original thread, she can't (or won't) connect when they are around. 

If she was connecting with him, then I agree that getting away for a weekend is not a requirement. But it sounds like they are not. She appears focused on the child and is ignoring their relationship. So trying to change things up seems to make sense to me.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

TCSRedhead said:


> Over the course of our marriage, we haven't had the luxury of a lot of nights away from the kids. However, we did make a lot of time to spend alone together without the kids. Day trips on our own, spending time in the living room and having the kids in their rooms.
> 
> With this new addition to our family and the two of us being more mature and stable, I am hoping to be able to do that.


Right but that's the point..This reference to "alone time" being restricted to "over night with kids at a different address" and that its "necessary to stay connected" is BS.

You do not have to be "alone overnight" and or for days to "get alone time" let alone to stay connected .

Sometimes "alone time' is in the closet in the middle of the day while the kids are in another room..LOL!!

Sometimes "alone time" is dinner and a movie "alone together" sometimes "alone time" is your kids are playing outside and you are "alone together" in the kitchen cooking together.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I just skimmed the OP's posts in the thread... didn't read everyone else's replies. 

I think the basic idea of a gift is to give another person something that gives the recipient pleasure. If it doesn't, then it's not a good gift choice. 

I can't tell if the OP really thought she WANTED time away, or if he just assumed that the woman who has not made it a priority in the last four years SHOULD want it. If it's the first, then his wife's cancellation is ungracious. If she has been saying they need time alone and not voicing her hesitations, then she should've addressed these concerns right away - not right before the trip. 

OTOH, if he did this "hoping" she would like it but knowing it'd stress her out, then it was a lousy gift and smacks of self-serving. 

My ex used to say we needed to get out together, but somehow his idea of that excluded the kinds of things I most valued. I'd told him I wanted to get out to some museums, go to Six Flags, go canoeing, etc. and somehow we inevitably ended up at the movie theater or a restaurant. We traveled, which mostly filled my needs, so I'm not complaining, but in over ten years together, we never once made a single trip to visit any of my friends or family, but traveled twice a year to see his mom. I sometimes resented it and felt like he was trying to dupe me.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Having now read the other thread, isn't the problem with your premise the fact that for the wife in that original thread, she can't (or won't) connect when they are around.
> 
> If she was connecting with him, then I agree that getting away for a weekend is not a requirement. But it sounds like they are not. She appears focused on the child and is ignoring their relationship. So trying to change things up seems to make sense to me.


O.K thanks .It wasnt the Op someone else commented that it is unhealthy to never want to get away specifically OVERNIGHT and that it is important to be able to "reconnect" but that was written like "in general" ...like for all couples.

It was also implied by someone that "a" mother who was not comfortable leaving her young children must have "lost her identity" .."forgot she is a wife" (thinks she is now only a mother) counts her husband as 2nd and on and on..that CAN be the case but even Mavash posted she does NOT leave her children yet over night and doesn't sound like plans on doing it anytime soon and she doesn't neglect her husband or put him second and I don't think she has lost her identity in her children.Plus I know (have known) other women who had great marriages but would not leave their children on an "overnighter" for year and years.

The implications were for in general.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I think the basic idea of a gift is to give another person something that gives the recipient pleasure. If it doesn't, then it's not a good gift choice.


Bingo..and I think this person had more than an inkling that this may cause her distress.NOT being with him not the trip/destination but leaving the daughter.


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## TCSRedhead (Oct 17, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Right but that's the point..This reference to "alone time" being restricted to "over night with kids at a different address" and that its "necessary to stay connected" is BS.
> 
> You do not have to be "alone overnight" and or for days to "get alone time" let alone to stay connected .
> 
> ...


I don't disagree but I do think that having time where you know you don't have to keep an eye/ear out for the little ones affords you more focused time on your partner. I think hubby and I lost track of each other a bit more than we would have if we had made more time to do that. 

We definitely take advantage of nap times, bed time, etc but I really miss alone time. Heck, in the 9 months he's been here, we've only had two times where we've been alone without him and those were only a few hours. 

It's hard sometimes as a mom to remember that we're also a wife. While these children are going to grow up, become adults and hopefully move out, we need to keep nurturing that relationship so we have a marriage to turn to afterwards. 

Some women become so 'child focused' that they forget to feed/nourish their marriage along the way.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> O.K thanks .It wasnt the Op someone else commented that it is unhealthy to never want to get away specifically OVERNIGHT and that it is important to be able to "reconnect" but that was written like "in general" ...like for all couples.


Every one does it differently to me. As long as the couple connects themselves, I think whatever works.



> It was also implied by someone that "a" mother who was not comfortable leaving her young children must have "lost her identity" .."forgot she is a wife" (thinks she is now only a mother) counts her husband as 2nd and on and on..that CAN be the case but even Mavash posted she does NOT leave her children yet over night and doesn't sound like plans on doing it anytime soon and she doesn't neglect her husband or put him second and I don't think she has lost her identity in her children.Plus I know (have known) other women who had great marriages but would not leave their children on an "overnighter" for year and years.
> 
> The implications were for in general.


So I will quibble a bit based on what I have observed. I understand not wanting to be away overnight, even if that would not work for me. 

But I have seen at least one mother who refused to allow anyone to care for her child. No babysitter, day care, nothing. So once their child was born, she and her husband never had dinner out alone. Any alone time came only after the child was put to bed.

Now, I can imagine a scenario where the couple could still maintain a connection even with this behavior. But I find it unlikely (and know it did not happen in that instance) and think this behavior is a huge red-flag of a mother losing her identity.

so I guess the answer is that it depends.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Bingo..and I think this person had more than an inkling that this may cause her distress.NOT being with him not the trip/destination but leaving the daughter.


But if he understood that, and thought the benefit to her outweighed this, is he still wrong?

I knew my trip would cause my wife distress (and it did). By I truly believed that the benefits (short and long term) outweighed that. I genuinely believed that she would enjoy the trip, and that he not being a mommy for a couple of days would be good for her. That I get a benefit out of it does not negate that.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> But I have seen at least one mother who refused to allow anyone to care for her child. No babysitter, day care, nothing. So once their child was born, she and her husband never had dinner out alone. Any alone time came only after the child was put to bed.


I've acknowledged that this CAN happen ..I havent met one woman myself that is that way.however lOL>>I met a COUPLE that was that way but with 6 children.Having said that the two of them were definately "connected" to each other "seperatley from the kids.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I think the basic idea of a gift is to give another person something that gives the recipient pleasure. If it doesn't, then it's not a good gift choice.


I disagree. I think the idea of giving a gift is to show someone you care about them. If what you give them isn't something they like then does that mean that you were wrong in giving a gift in the first place? Maybe she would prefer it if she had no one that cared about her birthday in the first place?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> But if he understood that, and thought the benefit to her outweighed this, is he still wrong?


Yes for HER b-day.I wouldn't even say the word "wrong" though more like just "duh".


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Yes for HER b-day.I wouldn't even say the word "wrong" though more like just "duh".


So every gift has to cause no stress at all? That seems like a tough test.

I guess she should buy something she likes and say it was from him. That would make it easier but would seem to lose something.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think the wife does want the time away. She just doesn't know it, because she is so caught up in being a mother.

I bet if she let herself get away, after an hour or two and a discussion with her mother on the phone about how great their child is doing, she would start to relax. She might not realize it, but she needs some time away as well.

If the couple is at all in love, the time away will end up with intimacy. Don't see why everyone is caught up on him wanting sex. I am guessing that once she is away and only needs to worry about herself, she will be wanting sex as well.

The only thing I think the guy did wrong is present it as a birthday present. It should have been presented as something they need as a couple.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But if he understood that, and thought the benefit to her outweighed this, is he still wrong?
> 
> I knew my trip would cause my wife distress (and it did). By I truly believed that the benefits (short and long term) outweighed that. I genuinely believed that she would enjoy the trip, and that he not being a mommy for a couple of days would be good for her. That I get a benefit out of it does not negate that.


On your second point I can see what you are saying.However I still think choosing her b-day was a bad idea.Even if it gave her more reason to back out by saying "this isn't for me anyway".

If he had said this is ME what I want on any ole weekend and she agreed to go then maybe once he got her there she would see it was for both of them and possibly then at that point good for her.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I've acknowledged that this CAN happen ..I havent met one woman myself that is that way.however lOL>>I met a COUPLE that was that way but with 6 children.Having said that the two of them were definately "connected" to each other "seperatley from the kids.


And that's why I say it depends. If you are not going to get that physical separation from your kids, you just have to work that much harder to keep up the connection with your spouse.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

My wife had misgivings about going away without the kids. We finally did it on our 25th anniversary and had the time of our lives.

Moral of the story - Don't knock it if you haven't tried it

Of course, depending on the ages of the kids, have someone you trust look after them!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I guess she should buy something she likes and say it was from him. That would make it easier but would seem to lose something.


Maybe I'm weird.But when I buy someone a gift my main goal is its something they like.I might even like it too but I also may hate it that wouldn't matter though because the point is if they like it.

I certainly wouldn't intentionally buy something I like that I knew they didn't then get mad at them because they didn't like it and say fine then go buy something for your self if you don't like it.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> On your second point I can see what you are saying.However I still think choosing her b-day was a bad idea.Even if it gave her more reason to back out by saying "this isn't for me anyway".
> 
> If he had said this is ME what I want on any ole weekend and she agreed to go then maybe once he got her there she would see it was for both of them and possibly then at that point good for her.


Some people have no inkling that they even want a gift that ends up being a lifelong favorite.

When it comes to time away from it all...just to relax...some people just won't take that time for themselves. Birthday gifts - particularly from spouses - are frequently splurges...something that the recipient would likely never do/get for themselves. From that perspective, where does that person's spouse to wrong in splurging for that time to get away from the day-to-day responsibilities of life?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> On your second point I can see what you are saying.However I still think choosing her b-day was a bad idea.Even if it gave her more reason to back out by saying "this isn't for me anyway".
> 
> If he had said this is ME what I want on any ole weekend and she agreed to go then maybe once he got her there she would see it was for both of them and possibly then at that point good for her.


I understand what you are saying. I just don't see birthdays as being so special that there is some separate rule for gift giving. He wanted to take her away for a weekend on the beach where they could relax together. Yes, she is uncomfortable with leaving her kids over night and perhaps it was not the optimal gift, but I don't see how he is the bad guy in that situation. I read his posts on this being a legitimate effort to give her a gift she would enjoy (though perhaps I am biased in view of my experience).


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Maybe I'm weird.But when I buy someone a gift my main goal is its something they like.I might even like it too but I also may hate it that wouldn't matter though because the point is if they like it.
> 
> I certainly wouldn't intentionally buy something I like that I knew they didn't then get mad at them because they didn't like it and say fine then go buy something for your self if you don't like it.


I would not either. But I have gotten gifts were I think they would like it, but was not sure. Like one year I got my wife ball room dancing lessons for the two of us. I thought she would like them, but was not sure (she'd mentioned in passing that it was "stuffy"). Fortunately she loved it. 

My point is that sometimes the best gifts are the ones where you take a chance. The risk is that it falls flat (and I have a couple of those as well).


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> And that's why I say it depends. If you are not going to get that physical separation from your kids, you just have to work that much harder to keep up the connection with your spouse.


The whole point was you do NOT need an over nighter to get "physical separation" from your kids if you want it.

And with the couple I'm referring they didn't have to "work harder" to keep connected ..they connected with each other with the kids right in front of them.The kids presence did not hinder their ability to connect.They laughed together they winked at each other they held hands they hugged and kissed complemented each other they comforted each other they worked out problems together made decisions together in their case prayed together and on and on ...they didn't have an issue "connecting" with kids all around them..I think they also thoroughly enjoyed raising their children "together" and connected in that way too.

IOW you don't even have to BE alone at all to "connect" really but for sex and its not "difficult" to do if thats what you want.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> The whole point was you do NOT need an over nighter to get "physical separation" from your kids if you want it.
> 
> And with the couple I'm referring they didn't have to "work harder" to keep connected ..they connected with each other with the kids right in front of them.The kids presence did not hinder their ability to connect.They laughed together they winked at each other they held hands they hugged and kissed complemented each other they comforted each other they worked out problems together made decisions together in their case prayed together and on and on ...they didn't have an issue "connecting" with kids all around them..I think they also thoroughly enjoyed raising their children "together" and connected in that way too.
> 
> IOW you don't even have to BE alone at all to "connect" really but for sex and its not "difficult" to do if thats what you want.


I guess I don't see that as inconsistent with my idea of working harder at the connection. They focus on it and make sure it is something they do at all times. Perhaps I chose my words poorly, but the couple you mention seems to understand that because of how they live their life, they need to connect through their joint activities with their kids. That sounds great.

Having said that, I do think that some alone time (even if it is just the kids being in bed) is critical. One on one time with limited distractions is important.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I guess I don't see that as inconsistent with my idea of working harder at the connection.


Well I guess with them the point is its not "work" let alone hard.I don't think they view their children as a "block" to being able to connect..they just do.(connect) its not a "special event' that has to occur "alone".(of course sex being the exception which HELLO they have that too).


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Having said that, I do think that some alone time (even if it is just the kids being in bed) is critical.


Of course.Its completely innapropriate to have sex in front of your kids.And some conversations aren't good for children to hear either.But unless you live in one room and no one sleeps you can achieve those in private.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Right but that's the point..This reference to "alone time" being restricted to "over night with kids at a different address" and that its "necessary to stay connected" is BS.
> 
> You do not have to be "alone overnight" and or for days to "get alone time" let alone to stay connected .
> 
> ...


You do not need to be alone overnight. It's not BS if someone else needs that. It's just another point of view  Whatever works .. is the goal.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

deejov said:


> You do not need to be alone overnight. It's not BS if someone else needs that. It's just another point of view  Whatever works .. is the goal.


It was stated as everyone does .Which is BS.It was also implied that you have an unhealthy view if you don't think you need it or want it.

If anything I would venture to say its more likely a "disconected" relationship if you absolutely think you "need" to be alone over night to be able to feel connected again.

I would LOVE to have a getaway weekend "alone" with my husband on the beach this weekend.It would be fun.But I don't "need it' to be connected because we know how to connect without having to get rid of our children for at least overnight.

I looked at some older posts of one person mentioned.Indeed there is a huge disconnect in the marriage but it isn't because they don't go away on "over nighters" ..Its because a lack of connection is happening day to day .An "over nighter" sounds like an attempt to restart some sort of connection lost maybe because the mother child relationship is what is being "blamed" on the lack of connection.Its not the child being around its the mothers lack of interest in having a connection with her spouse in the first place.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Lesson learned: always ask your spouse what they want before doing ANYTHING you think they might enjoy. Otherwise you run the risk of being perceived as a self-serving manipulator.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

So you are saying you don't agree with the generalisation?
Your view on the posts came to a different conclusion. 
I wasn't really trying to debate which view was right or wrong, I've had my mind made up about something I've never tried, then I tried it. And I changed my mind. 

Whatever the outcome, I hope the other thread OP finds a way to connect. I love the beach. None near me, though. Snowy mountains and the fireplace. Gotta take what you can get.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

jd08 said:


> Lesson learned: always ask your spouse what they want before doing ANYTHING you think they might enjoy. Otherwise you run the risk of being perceived as a self-serving manipulator.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Jd08...

I was simply trying to point out you already KNEW she didn't "enjoy" leaving your daughter over night.by your own description sounds like she had a mini nervous breakdown the only time in 4 years she has done it .And she has never suggested it herself after that. That is not ANYTHING.This is specifically something you KNEW in the past she did not "enjoy".


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I wasn't really trying to debate which view was right or wrong, I've had my mind made up about something I've never tried, then I tried it. And I changed my mind.


What if it HAS been "tried" and they still did NOT like it?Is it then "O.K" normal /healthy to not want to do it again?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Those concerns should have been raised two months ago. Waiting until the last second all while pretending she wants to go makes it wrong. Do you think I'd really plan this of she was telling me the whole time how much she didn't want to go? 



dallasapple said:


> Jd08...
> 
> I was simply trying to point out you already KNEW she didn't "enjoy" leaving your daughter over night.by your own description sounds like she had a mini nervous breakdown the only time in 4 years she has done it .And she has never suggested it herself after that. That is not ANYTHING.This is specifically something you KNEW in the past she did not "enjoy".


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Waiting until the last second all while pretending she wants to go makes it wrong.


I never said I don't think she is wrong for how she handled it.Having said that would you have been fine if she had said no I dont want that for my birthday I don't want to leave our DD?You would have said O.K fine just a suggestion no problem.How about instead we will go out to a resturant we have been to 100 times already then go home and go to sleep?Whatever you want its your birthday?


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Jd08...
> 
> I was simply trying to point out you already KNEW she didn't "enjoy" leaving your daughter over night.by your own description sounds like she had a mini nervous breakdown the only time in 4 years she has done it .And she has never suggested it herself after that. That is not ANYTHING.This is specifically something you KNEW in the past she did not "enjoy".


Some might see such behavior as an even larger indication that she needs some down time and that he would be well advised to make it happen. She's unwilling to arrange time for herself to decompress and let go of the daily grind...something we all need to do from time to time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

I would have been fine with that since I wouldn't have planned for something else. Mundane existences are attractive when it's all you know. 



dallasapple said:


> I never said I don't think she is wrong for how she handled it.Having said that would you have been fine if she had said no I dont want that for my birthday I don't want to leave our DD?You would have said O.K fine just a suggestion no problem.How about instead we will go out to a resturant we have been to 100 times already then go home and go to sleep?Whatever you want its your birthday?


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

jd08 said:


> I would have been fine with that since I wouldn't have planned for something else. Mundane existences are attractive when it's all you know.
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why didnt you plan the trip of HER birthday the 3 of ya'll?That would be getting away from the mundane would it have not?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Well I guess with them the point is its not "work" let alone hard.I don't think they view their children as a "block" to being able to connect..they just do.(connect) its not a "special event' that has to occur "alone".(of course sex being the exception which HELLO they have that too).


How do you know they "just do it"? It may be that they have talked about it a lot and worked through some times were they were not as diligent? 

Perhaps it is not "hard" work, but it is something to remembered. Again, my word choice may not have been the best, but I do think the couple needs to keep their eye on it as something they maintain. I have no doubt that it comes very easily for some, but my experience is that a lot of folks miss it. So if you are not getting alone time, then you need to be careful that you keep connecting.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Its not the child being around its the mothers lack of interest in having a connection with her spouse in the first place.


That is a little simplistic. This certainly could be true, but the child can be the reason for the lack of interest. That it may be other things in some circumstances does not mean that the child is not the "reason" in others.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Grayson said:


> Some might see such behavior as an even larger indication that she needs some down time and that he would be well advised to make it happen. She's unwilling to arrange time for herself to decompress and let go of the daily grind...something we all need to do from time to time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some might see such behavior as that.Some might also see it as totally natural(instinctual) to not want to leave young children for "overnight" to forget about them and "enjoy your self" and the meltdown to be a natural consequence.And other people telling her its what she "needs" is BS?

Why do you assume she doesn't make any time to herself to "decompress" just based on the fact she is NOT happy leaving behind her young children for days?


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Told my husband this story and he immediately said it was HER birthday then laughed because he did the exact same thing to me 2 years ago. He planned this camping trip (aka work for mom) for us and three kids because its what HE wanted. 

I grumbled a bit but went anyway. Ended up having fun (it was a nice RV he borrowed) but didn't stay long. I left him there with the kids and drove home early for a long hot shower.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I think its "obtuse" TBH for especially a man to tell a woman who has the instinct to NOT leave her young children for "overnight" that although SHE doesn't realize it ..its what "she needs".

Did anyone consider the possiblility its NOT what she needs but maybe instead what someone else wishes she did?


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I think its "obtuse" TBH for especially a man to tell a woman who has the instinct to NOT leave her young children for "overnight" that although SHE doesn't realize it ..its what "she needs".
> 
> Did anyone consider the possiblility its NOT what she needs but maybe instead what someone else wishes she did?


I will absolutely agree that is a possibility if you will agree it is possible that he does in fact know better and that she does not realize what she needs.

I chuckle at the idea that we as humans are never wrong about what we need.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

This thread (like the other) is getting out of control. It's obvious that this situation has hit a nerve with dallasapple for some reason. Going forward I will not make this "mistake" again. Since we are still in town we will do what she wants on her birthday tomorrow and that's the end of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Some might see such behavior as that.Some might also see it as totally natural(instinctual) to not want to leave young children for "overnight" to forget about them and "enjoy your self" and the meltdown to be a natural consequence.And other people telling her its what she "needs" is BS?
> 
> Why do you assume she doesn't make any time to herself to "decompress" just based on the fact she is NOT happy leaving behind her young children for days?


Why do _you_ assume that leaving a child with family overnight equates to "forgetting about them?" Or even with family for a few hours to go to that dinner where they've been 100 times before? No parent - mother or father - will do their child any good if they're "on the job" 24/7/365. All jobs provide for vacations...parenting should be no exception.

As to my own conclusions on this matter, I'm merely drawing them from context. Sounds like she's always in "mom mode," and that's admirable, to a point. But when it sounds like she can't turn that off long enough to disengage and recharge for a weekend that it could be detrimental to her mental and physical health.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jd08 said:


> This thread (like the other) is getting out of control. It's obvious that this situation has hit a nerve with dallasapple for some reason. Going forward I will not make this "mistake" again. Since we are still in town we will do what she wants on her birthday tomorrow and that's the end of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Actually, I recommend that you don't. Get her a nice card and leave it at that. 

Perhaps in the future, but if she is not going to be an adult about these things, then she gets the birthday she deserves.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, I recommend that you don't. Get her a nice card and leave it at that.
> 
> Perhaps in the future, but if she is not going to be an adult about these things, then she gets the birthday she deserves.


Yep. Birthday card and leave it at that. Sounds like any attempt to think outside the box and do something special for her will be met with resistance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I will absolutely agree that is a possibility if you will agree it is possible that he does in fact know better and that she does not realize what she needs.
> 
> I chuckle at the idea that we as humans are never wrong about what we need.


No I will not agree to that.Not if she has tried it and confirms its NOT a NEED let alone a want.

And I never said anything about all humans never being wrong about what they THINK they need.

He could be wrong for "needing" her to leave the child behind to be with him.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Sounds like any attempt to think outside the box and do something special for her will be met with resistance.


Now its gone from this one specific thing to "any attempt"?:scratchhead:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Why do you assume that leaving a child with family overnight equates to "forgetting about them?"


I don't ..the problem is some DON'T forget about them ENOUGH to where they are distracted even while away and that is totally NORMAL.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEOr even with family for a few hours to go to that dinner where they've been 100 times before? ][/QUOTE]

You apparrently haven't read my posts.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I am sure that not all women are the same, but my wife is a woman who hardly ever knows what she wants. Or she is scared of what she would look like if she expressed what she wanted.

She needs a nudge. Once she gets nudged and puts herself out there, she always (100% of the time) says how glad she is that I pushed her to do it. Whether it is going on a helicopter, going for a massage, snorkeling in the ocean or just getting naked with me.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> I don't ..the problem is some DON'T forget about them ENOUGH to where they are distracted even while away and that is totally NORMAL.


I don't agree that this is NORMAL. I consider it un-healthy. And often it is so 'un-healthy' that it can end a marriage or severely harm it.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

jd08 said:


> This thread (like the other) is getting out of control. It's obvious that this situation has hit a nerve with dallasapple for some reason. Going forward I will not make this "mistake" again. Since we are still in town we will do what she wants on her birthday tomorrow and that's the end of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


well its my thread and I don't think its "out of control".there were things said comments made over there that I found offensive and I would assume would have offended others.And I have "left my kids" over night quite a few times over my 25 year marriage.thats why I started this thread to discuss it.

And its not just "your situation" its the general attitude.

Anyway sorry that you are going to have to do what your wife wants on her birthday.That is completely thoughtless of her.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> [QUOTEOr even with family for a few hours to go to that dinner where they've been 100 times before? ]


You apparrently haven't read my posts.[/QUOTE]

Are you admitting to projecting here? 

That your family situation isn't typical and so your opinions regarding this aren't typical either?


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> well its my thread and I don't think its "out of control".there were things said comments made over there that I found offensive and I would assume would have offended others.And I have "left my kids" over night quite a few times over my 25 year marriage.thats why I started this thread to discuss it.
> 
> And its not just "your situation" its the general attitude.
> 
> Anyway sorry that you are going to have to do what your wife wants on her birthday.That is completely thoughtless of her.


The sad thing is that if she had gone on the trip, the following would have been the result:

1) She would have come back re-energized and would be a better mother
2) Her child would have spent some quality time with grand parents
3) The marriage would be stronger
4) The husband would be happier
5) The wife would be happier

Can't think of a single negative thing that could happen from having a couple of days away.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> No I will not agree to that.Not if she has tried it and confirms its NOT a NEED let alone a want.
> 
> And I never said anything about all humans never being wrong about what they THINK they need.
> 
> He could be wrong for "needing" her to leave the child behind to be with him.


Sure, he absolutely could be wrong. But so could she. You are not willing to even entertain the opinion. But our view are very different. You think she already tried and did not like it, never considering that she never gave it a fair shot. You think is the bad guy for even suggesting it. I think she is awful for agreeing then cancelling at the last minute. 

So be it.

I would like one point of clarification. When does she what she says count? You say he should have know that this was not a need or want of hers. Yet when he proposed doing it again here, she agreed and apparently did so a couple of times. She did not voice her how much it displeased her until the absolute last minute. So why was he supposed to ignore her when she initially agreed but not ignore her now?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> I don't agree that this is NORMAL. I consider it un-healthy. And often it is so 'un-healthy' that it can end a marriage or severely harm it.


So you are saying its "not normal" for a mother to not be completely fine but instead distracted enough to not be able to enjoy themselves routinely leaving young children over night and even for days?

Where else in nature would you question the instincts of a parent that way?

There are ranges of norm.And I think its completely within normal "range" to not want to or be very uncomfortable with leaving your YOUNG children for a getaway over night.Just like it normal to be O.K with it sometimes.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Soifon said:


> I disagree. I think the idea of giving a gift is to show someone you care about them. If what you give them isn't something they like then does that mean that you were wrong in giving a gift in the first place? Maybe she would prefer it if she had no one that cared about her birthday in the first place?


If my husband bought us tickets to a CrossFit event out of state, I would be thrilled. Not because I'm really into CrossFit(cause I'm not), but because he bought us tickets to go on a trip, period. My husband bought us tickets to see my favorite musical two years ago for our anniversary. He doesn't like musicals, but he enjoyed himself nonetheless. If I had to choose between never going on a trip, or only going on trips that he will enjoy more than me, I would always choose the trip. No matter what it was. NASCAR(which I do enjoy), drag racing, drifting, rally races, a marathon somewhere, CrossFit, a shooting championship, Las Vegas, Hawaii, South Korea...I'm not interested in any of those things, but I would never be upset for getting a trip to those events/places as my birthday present. I'd just make sure he took me to buy a few expensive outfits that I can wear, and I'd be set. 

Sometimes people are too critical, imo.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> You think she already tried and did not like it, never considering that she never gave it a fair shot.


A fair shot was DOING it against her own wishes.Not LIKING it in the end doesn't make it not a fair shot.Apparrently the only way for it have to been a fair shot was she liked it I guess and said she changed her mind and she was wrong about what she needed?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> If my husband bought us tickets to a CrossFit event out of state, I would be thrilled. Not because I'm really into CrossFit(cause I'm not), but because he bought us tickets to go on a trip, period. My husband bought us tickets to see my favorite musical two years ago for our anniversary. He doesn't like musicals, but he enjoyed himself nonetheless. If I had to choose between never going on a trip, or only going on trips that he will enjoy more than me, I would always choose the trip. No matter what it was. NASCAR(which I do enjoy), drag racing, drifting, rally races, a marathon somewhere, CrossFit, a shooting championship, Las Vegas, Hawaii, South Korea...I'm not interested in any of those things, but I would never be upset for getting a trip to those events/places as my birthday present. I'd just make sure he took me to buy a few expensive outfits that I can wear, and I'd be set.
> 
> Sometimes people are too critical, imo.


This is about leaving young children behind.Not the event or "gift"


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> So you are saying its "not normal" for a mother to not be completely fine but instead distracted enough to not be able to enjoy themselves routinely leaving young children over night and even for days?
> 
> Where else in nature would you question the instincts of a parent that way?
> 
> There are ranges of norm.And I think its completely within normal "range" to not want to or be very uncomfortable with leaving your YOUNG children for a getaway over night.Just like it normal to be O.K with it sometimes.


For newborns I can see it. As they get older, it should get easier.

I don't think it is normal for a parent to not be able to leave their 2 year old with someone who is very competent at looking after them. I am not talking about leaving your baby with a stranger or a 10 year old who you aren't sure they can handle it. I am talking about leaving your child with some you trust and know is perfectly capable.

When a woman becomes a mother, she doesn't stop being a wife or a person or a friend. If she does, she is losing sight of everything that is important in life.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

Leaving them behind in the wilderness. 



dallasapple said:


> This is about leaving young children behind.Not the event or "gift"


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I couldn't possibly disagree with you more dallas.

But you knew that already.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Why didnt you plan the trip of HER birthday the 3 of ya'll?That would be getting away from the mundane would it have not?


But if someone is making their child the center of their world, to the point that they are ignoring their spouse, bringing the child along would defeat the purpose. It's not that the child inevitably means they won't be connected, it's that the wife doesn't know how to be around their child _and_ stay connected. 

My mom did this when my brother and I were born. She became so wrapped up in being mommy that she totally forgot she was _first_ a wife. For some women, they need that time away to remind them, "Oh yeah, my husband still needs my attention and affection too". 

Lets use a different example: a husband gets a promotion, and he's making more money but he also has a lot more responsibilities. He goes from working 40 hour work weeks to 60 hour work weeks. When he's at home, he's constantly checking his phone and responding to emails...basically, there's no time for his wife to connect with him because he's so wrapped up in his new position. If they go on a trip to reconnect and he takes his phone and his business lap top, are they really going to connect? If he can't even pay attention to her in their own house, why would he on a trip? 

If jd's wife won't pay attention to him at home with their daughter around, how would taking their daughter on the trip change that?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Tall Average Guy said:


> Actually, I recommend that you don't. Get her a nice card and leave it at that.
> 
> Perhaps in the future, but if she is not going to be an adult about these things, then she gets the birthday she deserves.


I agree. Don't reward disrespectful behavior.


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

C2W as usual is right on the mark.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> This is about leaving young children behind.Not the event or "gift"


Really? Then what was all the "it's her birthday, you should do what SHE wants" about? 

Anyway, I happen to think it's VERY unhealthy to never have overnight alone time with your spouse after having kids. To the point where you have a panic attack just thinking about it? This woman SERIOUSLY needs a wake-up call. If she can't imagine leaving her daughter with family for one night, even though her husband desperately wants to reconnect with her, then she should prepare for major consequences. I'm already planning trips with my husband and telling my in-laws to prepare to babysit, and I'm only one month pregnant!

Fact: children make having one on one time with your spouse, without interruptions or distractions, incredibly difficult. Do all marriages "need" long elaborate trips to remain connected? No. But I _do_ think that all spouses should _want_ overnight one on one alone time without husband or wife. If they don't want that, I seriously question their priorities. 

Sure, maybe it shouldn't have been for her birthday. But again, if she didn't want to go it was _her_ responsibility to say so. Just because we have a negative experience one time doesn't mean that we should avoid that thing for the rest of our lives.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> *A fair shot was DOING it against her own wishes.*Not LIKING it in the end doesn't make it not a fair shot.Apparrently the only way for it have to been a fair shot was she liked it I guess and said she changed her mind and she was wrong about what she needed?


If you do something against your wishes, going in with the attitude that you're not going to like it no matter what...you would truthfully call that a fair shot?

When I was a child, my grandmother once took me someplace different to get my hair cut. I decided before we left her house that I was going to hate it, because it wasn't the place I was used to. When they asked me how I liked it when the hair cut was done, I spat out a well-rehearsed, "It looks like _dirt_!" But, hey...based on the above, I gave the new place a fair shot. I don't feel nearly as ashamed of my behavior, because I gave it a fair shot after all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Grayson said:


> If you do something against your wishes, going in with the attitude that you're not going to like it no matter what...you would truthfully call that a fair shot?
> 
> When I was a child, my grandmother once took me someplace different to get my hair cut. I decided before we left her house that I was going to hate it, because it wasn't the place I was used to. When they asked me how I liked it when the hair cut was done, I spat out a well-rehearsed, "It looks like _dirt_!" But, hey...based on the above, I gave the new place a fair shot. I don't feel nearly as ashamed of my behavior, because I gave it a fair shot after all.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup: Precisely! Giving something "a fair shot" means genuinely giving it a chance; not letting bias or preconceived notions taint our experience.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

They've had one night alone in four years. His wife, seriously, needs to start contributing to this marriage. And that starts by recognizing _his_ needs as her husband, and letting the kid go for one freaking night.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If your wife does not consider it a gift to go on a weekend getaway then the marriage has very serious problems. She may more appreciate the pure joy that only the gift of divorce can give her. The gift that keeps on giving for the next 18+ years.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Totally agree. I'm irate over this, and I don't even know these people.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Anyway, I happen to think it's VERY unhealthy to never have overnight alone time with your spouse after having kids.


Why do you "happen to think that"?Why do you "happen to think" as well you cant have "overnight alone time" with your spouse after having kids unless you are at a different location ?

I have had many many many "overnight alone time" with my husband in the past 25 years (married) with 3 kids and one grandchild (in the last 5) with kids IN the house.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTE DALLAS You apparrently haven't read my posts.[/QUOTE]

QUOTE SAM I AM :Are you admitting to projecting here? 

That your family situation isn't typical and so your opinions regarding this aren't typical either?[/QUOTE]

actually that was a comment made by someone else that I repeated and didn't quote them.That is no projection.I am very content to go to a resturant that I have been to 100 times OR to fly in an airplane to go to Costa Rica with my husband..Just takes a little more planning and a lot more money to do the latter but I'm game for either..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

tacoma said:


> I couldn't possibly disagree with you more dallas.
> 
> But you knew that already.





and...thats O.K.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Why do you "happen to think that"?Why do you "happen to think" as well you cant have "overnight alone time" with your spouse after having kids unless you are at a different location ?
> 
> I have had many many many "overnight alone time" with my husband in the past 25 years (married) with 3 kids and one grandchild (in the last 5) with kids IN the house.


I absolutely think you _can_ have alone time in the same house as your kids. I never said you couldn't. 

However, it's a fact that children _are_ distractions for both parents. One or both parents go to work and then come home at night, fix dinner, eat with each other, play/spend time with the kids, put them to bed, and _then_ have to wind down and relax. And that's assuming that the kids stay in bed as soon as you put them there. Which, remembering my childhood, that rarely ever happened. So, putting the kids back into bed and then relaxing again, and keeping in mind that you have work the next morning...sounds exhausting just thinking about it. 

It's not that it can't be done, just that every couple deserves to have an entire night to each other without the kids to distract them. If they choose not to spend time away from their kids ever, then more power to them. But when one spouse wants to, and they've only had an entire night alone once in four years, the other needs to step outside of themselves and ask, "If I was the one who wanted to spend special time with him, and went through the effort to plan this trip, and he told me many times that he wanted to go, how would I feel if he canceled?" 

Marriage is _mutual_. The wife doesn't get to dictate what they do and what they don't. Neither does the husband. And since he asked her _before_ he made the plans, and she said she wanted to go, the right thing to do was to suck it up and go for the night.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Why do you "happen to think that"?Why do you "happen to think" as well you cant have "overnight alone time" with your spouse after having kids unless you are at a different location ?
> 
> I have had many many many "overnight alone time" with my husband in the past 25 years (married) with 3 kids and one grandchild (in the last 5) with kids IN the house.


I haven't seen anyone suggest that it's necessary in 100% of situations. (Although, strictly speaking, the word "alone" does imply it.) However, what we *are* saying is that it is *sometimes* necessary to "clock out" of parent time...to take time where there is absolutely no one's needs you might possibly need to meet for a period of time and just let go and relax...to not even have the possibility of having the kid(s) come running in in the middle of the night from a nightmare, or not wake you up early in the morning wanting breakfast, or any other of the multitude of parental duties. By all accounts, the wife in this scenario has been "on the clock" 24/7 for four years without a day off. She deserves that time off and likely needs it, even if she doesn't realize it. She just won't allow herself to take it...and she's about to have twice the workload.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> When I was a child, my grandmother once took me someplace different to get my hair cut. I decided before we left her house that I was going to hate it


This is a situation where someone already tried it and still hated it.At what point do you "believe" someone genuinely does not like something and its not because of "attitude" or that they didn't try to like it or because they don't even know what they like you do?

My husband HATES English peas.He told me that from gosh starting 30 years ago..I don't get it ..I can eat a pound of English peas just by themselves..they are sweet ..they pop in your mouth and by all accounts(most anyway) they are good for you .So I thought he should just "try them" (even though he had) again.That he was "wrong" because how can you NOT like them?Its one of my favorites..

So I got creative..I made homeade chicken pot pie(which he loves)..I would put just a few peas in it...he would get one in his mouth (by accident ) and swallow...he then would eat the rest picking the peas out ..I would say "how was it " he said great ACCEPT FOR THE PEAS...

there is no RHYME or reason why I love peas and he hates them but I believe him that he hates them..and he believes me that I love them.

I do not KNOW that he "really loves peas just doesn't know it " anymore than he "knows I really hate them but I just don't know it".


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> However, it's a fact that children are distractions for both parents.


Excuse me? I have 3 children and one grandchild and another grandchild on the way.Children being a "distraction" is a "fact" I already know through living it..however it has NOTHING to do with "overnight "alone time".UNLESS the children sleep in the bed with you .


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> However, what we are saying is that it is sometimes necessary to "clock out" of parent time.


I never said otherwise..Im saying you can DO that if you WANT with children in the house.I have "clocked out " of parent time in my bathtub ..I have "clocked out of parent time" when my children were off at school ...etc..the idea that its "unhealthy" to not have and over night stay with your spouse with kids at a different location is BS>Complete BS


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Excuse me? I have 3 children and one grandchild and another grandchild on the way.Children being a "distraction" is a "fact" I already know through living it..however it has NOTHING to do with "overnight "alone time".UNLESS the children sleep in the bed with you .


...or wake up in the night sick...or from a nightmare...or because "I needa drinka water"...or, well, you get the idea. With the kids at home, you're always "on call." And, while it's certainly doable to carve out time together when you're all under the same roof, you're always mindful of their presence and potential need. It's quite beneficial to be able to go off duty from time to time and concentrate enitrely on yourself and/or one another without having to play "Mom and Dad."

My wife and I try to have weekly date nights, with our son staying with my parents. On date night, parental duties and concerns are an off-limits topic of conversation, allowing us to focus on being Husband and Wife, not Mom and Dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Excuse me? I have 3 children and one grandchild and another grandchild on the way.Children being a "distraction" is a "fact" I already know through living it..however it has NOTHING to do with "overnight "alone time".UNLESS the children sleep in the bed with you .


So your children _never_ ever got out of bed after being asleep due to a nightmare? Or wanting a drink? Or wanting a snack? Or because they can't sleep? Or just to see what you and your husband were doing? They stayed in bed all night, every night, from the moment you tucked them in? 100% of the time? You and your husband have never been interrupted during your alone time in all those 25 years of marriage?


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## luv2luv (Mar 28, 2013)

All I can think about from this thread and the original thread is the Simpson's episode where Homer "gifted" Marge a bowling ball for her birthday. He put his name on the ball. Homer knew Marge didn't like bowling, he knew the bowling ball was for him, so instead of putting Marge's needs first on her birthday he put his desires/wishes first.

I understand that the couple needs alone time no and maybe the husband needed an overnight stay. He is completely entitled to that;however , he should then not present it as a gift for her. It doesn't matter if he would like that gift or I would like or everyone in the world would like it, his wife did not like or want that gift. He gifted himself something not her. 

Yes the rules for birthdays are different. If the idea is to celebrate that person's birthday maybe celebrate it the way they want, instead of the way you want. Give yourself a vacation present some other day.

As to the people thinking she doesn't "deserve" a good present, she wasn't getting one anyway. She was getting a present meant for someone else.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> I never said otherwise..Im saying you can DO that if you WANT with children in the house.I have "clocked out " of parent time in my bathtub ..I have "clocked out of parent time" when my children were off at school ...etc..the idea that its "unhealthy" to not have and over night stay with your spouse with kids at a different location is BS>Complete BS


I think where the "unhealthy" aspect has come into the conversation is that the wife in question seems to have an unhealthy level of attachment to their child, to the point that she appears to be completely unwilling to separate herself from the child.

When you've "clocked out" in the tub, you haven't really clocked out if the kids are there. You're still "on call," as they could come pounding on the door at any moment.
When you've "clocked out" while they're at school, please take note that they are (as you keep putting it) at another address. With the child in question being 4, he or she likely isn't in school, and with child #2 just 3 months away, that leaves a good 5 years before they'll both he in school...assuming there are no more kids down the line. So, when, exactly, is she able to clock out? Particularly given the level of attachment as has been described?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Grayson said:


> ...or wake up in the night sick...or from a nightmare...or because "I needa drinka water"...or, well, you get the idea. With the kids at home, you're always "on call." And, while it's certainly doable to carve out time together when you're all under the same roof, you're always mindful of their presence and potential need. It's quite beneficial to be able to go off duty from time to time and concentrate enitrely on yourself and/or one another without having to play "Mom and Dad."
> 
> My wife and I try to have weekly date nights, with our son staying with my parents. On date night, parental duties and concerns are an off-limits topic of conversation, allowing us to focus on being Husband and Wife, not Mom and Dad.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Precisely. I like your once a week date night plan. With a baby on the way, I don't want to get so wrapped up in being a new mom that I neglect my husband. I've been coming up with ideas like yours to ensure that my husband and I have time to spend with each other, without baby. I really like keeping parent talk off-limits.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

luv2luv said:


> All I can think about from this thread and the original thread is the Simpson's episode where Homer "gifted" Marge a bowling ball for her birthday. He put his name on the ball. Homer knew Marge didn't like bowling, he knew the bowling ball was for him, so instead of putting Marge's needs first on her birthday he put his desires/wishes first.
> 
> I understand that the couple needs alone time no and maybe the husband needed an overnight stay. He is completely entitled to that;however , he should then not present it as a gift for her. It doesn't matter if he would like that gift or I would like or everyone in the world would like it, his wife did not like or want that gift. He gifted himself something not her.
> 
> ...


You must have missed the fact that he _asked_ her if she would like that before he planned the trip and she said yes. They talked about it for months since then, and she maintained that she was excited for the trip and wanted to go. 

Until the day they were going to leave. Then she suddenly changed her tune, said she hadn't even packed to leave, and that now she didn't want to go.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Grayson said:


> I think where the "unhealthy" aspect has come into the conversation is that the wife in question seems to have an unhealthy level of attachment to their child, to the point that she appears to be completely unwilling to separate herself from the child.
> 
> When you've "clocked out" in the tub, you haven't really clocked out if the kids are there. You're still "on call," as they could come pounding on the door at any moment.
> When you've "clocked out" while they're at school, please take note that they are (as you keep putting it) at another address. With the child in question being 4, he or she likely isn't in school, and with child #2 just 3 months away, that leaves a good 5 years before they'll both he in school...assuming there are no more kids down the line. So, when, exactly, is she able to clock out? Particularly given the level of attachment as has been described?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly.


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## luv2luv (Mar 28, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> You must have missed the fact that he _asked_ her if she would like that before he planned the trip and she said yes. They talked about it for months since then, and she maintained that she was excited for the trip and wanted to go.
> 
> Until the day they were going to leave. Then she suddenly changed her tune, said she hadn't even packed to leave, and that now she didn't want to go.


Her timing was bad, so was her method. But maybe she said yes because of the exact views on this thread, "oh you're so ungrateful for not liking this awesome present I got for you, knowing you don't like these things." I would feel pressured in a situation like that. Heck I recently got a necklace I didn't like for my birthday and I felt pressured to keep that to not hurt the gifter's feeling. I think my exact phrasing was "if the purpose of this present is for you to know, you gave me something ill keep it, if the purpose is for me to have something I like then i am returning it."

And yes I would not be offended if someone said that to me. Gifts should be given to make the other person happy not yourself


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> So your children never ever got out of bed after being asleep due to a nightmare? Or wanting a drink? Or wanting a snack? Or because they can't sleep? Or just to see what you and your husband were doing? They stayed in bed all night, every night, from the moment you tucked them in? 100% of the time? You and your husband have never been interrupted during your alone time in all those 25 years of marriage?


when did I say they never did that?Can you compute that I and my husband had MORE "alone over night" time than not in 25 years of marriage?WITH kids in the house?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

luv2luv said:


> Her timing was bad, so was her method. But maybe she said yes because of the exact views on this thread, "oh you're so ungrateful for not liking this awesome present I got for you, knowing you don't like these things." I would feel pressured in a situation like that. Heck I recently got a necklace I didn't like for my birthday and I felt pressured to keep that to not hurt the gifter's feeling. I think my exact phrasing was "if the purpose of this present is for you to know, you gave me something ill keep it, if the purpose is for me to have something I like then i am returning it."
> 
> And yes I would not be offended if someone said that to me. Gifts should be given to make the other person happy not yourself


Then it's her responsibility to woman up and say, "I don't want to go." He can't read her mind. Especially since she _kept_ saying that she wanted to go as the trip got closer. Is he supposed to assume that she's lying or something? 

It would be like my husband asking me, "Do you want me to get you jewelry for your birthday?", and me saying, "Yes, that would be great. I love jewelry." And when he asks me as the months go by, I continue to say, "Yes, I am excited about the jewelry." But then, the day before my birthday I say, "I don't want jewelry. I don't like jewelry. I hardly every wear it anyway." 

If she didn't want to go, she should have said so from the beginning. He wasn't wrong for planning this trip for her after she said she wanted to go.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> And yes I would not be offended if someone said that to me. Gifts should be given to make the other person happy not yourself


I agree...what makes me happy (but I'm odd) is I gave a gift that made the recipitant happy..


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> when did I say they never did that?Can you compute that I and my husband had MORE "alone over night" time than not in 25 years of marriage?WITH kids in the house?


Can _you_ compute that the point is that you're not really "alone" if you're also being interrupted by your children? 

Also, when did this become about you anyway? 

It's great that you and your husband stayed connected. But the OP of the other thread obviously doesn't feel connected to his wife, and no wonder. His wife hasn't made him a priority since their daughter was born four years ago. THAT is the point. 

Does everyone need to take vacations without their kids to stay connected? No. But in this situation, she's been selfish and difficult. _He_ needs that connection, and _she_ doesn't know how to give it to him when their daughter is around.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I agree...what makes me happy (but I'm odd) is I gave a gift that made the recipitant happy..


He thought that he _was_. She told him that she wanted to go before he actually made the plans.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Precisely. I like your once a week date night plan. With a baby on the way, I don't want to get so wrapped up in being a new mom that I neglect my husband. I've been coming up with ideas like yours to ensure that my husband and I have time to spend with each other, without baby. I really like keeping parent talk off-limits.


Thanks. And it's not like we NEVER talk about him on our dates. He's part of our lives, so things he's done or said might come up. But actual parenting topics...things that might need to be done for school, birthday parties, disciplinary issues, etc...those are subjects we don't touch.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> It's great that you and your husband stayed connected. But the OP of the other thread obviously doesn't feel connected to his wife, and no wonder. His wife hasn't made him a priority since their daughter was born four years ago. THAT is the point.


I wasn't REFERRRING to him or him only .The part about him was more about the gift giving part but mostly IN GENERAL.

Same with needing to go on a trip or have an over nighter to get alone time ...IN GENERAL.

This thread was about the idea IN GENERAL.His situation and some of the REPLIES are what spurred me to start the topic.




> Can you compute that the point is that you're not really "alone" if you're also being interrupted by your children?


Can you compute the fact you are not interupted by your children nightly every single night?


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## jd08 (Nov 20, 2012)

> Can you compute the fact you are not interupted by your children nightly every single night?


Here's where I didnt go into detail. My daughter is a TERRIBLE sleeper. Despite being almost 4 years old she doesnt fall asleep by herself and never sleeps through the night. To get her asleep it's anywhere from a one hour to two hour process starting around 8 or 8:30 each night and usually culminated in one of us laying in her bed with her until she falls asleep. Usually after that she wakes up in the middle of the night around 1 or 2 and wont go back to sleep in her own bed. I have no doubt this was created by my wife's constant coddling and overprotecting her. 

So to respond to this... A night out of town was a good way to spend quality time with my wife without a child around. I don't get that here. It's about the kid 24/7.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

jd08 said:


> Here's where I didnt go into detail. My daughter is a TERRIBLE sleeper. Despite being almost 4 years old she doesnt fall asleep by herself and never sleeps through the night. To get her asleep it's anywhere from a one hour to two hour process starting around 8 or 8:30 each night and usually culminated in one of us laying in her bed with her until she falls asleep. Usually after that she wakes up in the middle of the night around 1 or 2 and wont go back to sleep in her own bed. I have no doubt this was created by my wife's constant coddling and overprotecting her.
> 
> So to respond to this... A night out of town was a good way to spend quality time with my wife without a child around. I don't get that here. It's about the kid 24/7.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This explains a lot.

No matter why you needed to leave the house to get alone time.

All 3 of my kids were sleeping through the night consistently by 3 months of age because its what I trained them to do. Sure there are nightmares, illnesses, and stints of not sleeping but overall when I put them to bed they stay there. I don't coddle my kids because I need my sleep, alone time and sex.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

jd08 said:


> Here's where I didnt go into detail. My daughter is a TERRIBLE sleeper. Despite being almost 4 years old she doesnt fall asleep by herself and never sleeps through the night. To get her asleep it's anywhere from a one hour to two hour process starting around 8 or 8:30 each night and usually culminated in one of us laying in her bed with her until she falls asleep. Usually after that she wakes up in the middle of the night around 1 or 2 and wont go back to sleep in her own bed. I have no doubt this was created by my wife's constant coddling and overprotecting her.
> 
> So to respond to this... A night out of town was a good way to spend quality time with my wife without a child around. I don't get that here. It's about the kid 24/7.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I understand that now about you .I guess my point was that for all couples the ONLY way to stay connected is NOT to a) have overnight time alone let alone at a different address from the children b) small children for every couple does not equate to automatically NEVER getting overnight time or "any" alone time ever c)a mother who doesn't want to send the children away overnight or leave town without them does not automatically mean she puts the children ahead of her husband 24/7 or that they never get "any alone time" together or that she has disconnected from her husband.

IOW JUST the fact alone your wife did not want to leave the child and go out town for an over nighter with you IN and OF itself ..that "by itself" was no reason in my mind to jump to the conclusion that she completely puts you second to the child 24/7 ...has lost her identity ...or that ya'll NEVER get alone time or that its impossible to stay connected with out that .

If I had a 4 year old right now that I refused to leave for "overnighters" ..that slept through the night too unless they were sick or maybe occassionally had a nightmare..that after 8:30 my husband and I used that time to be together(including sleeping through the night in the bed with him UNITERUPTED.. ..I was affectionate and engaged with him ,I would get a sitter for date nights with him and engaged in flirting with him ...I jumped his bones on the weekends when the child napped..etc...

I DOUBT he would be miserable because I refused to leave the child for overnight ..I doubt he would feel I put him 2nd to the child ..I doubt he would feel we had NO connection ..I doubt he would feel I forgot I was a 'wife" and had lost my identity in the child ..I doubt he would feel 2nd fiddle and neglected...I doubt he would feel just based on the fact I didn't want to leave overnight with him that I had an unhealthy attachment to the child or that our relationship was "unhealthy".or that we "never got alone time" .


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

My child started sleeping through the night at an early age. I still enjoyed overnights away from him. *shrug* different people need different things to stay centered and sane.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> My child started sleeping through the night at an early age. I still enjoyed overnights away from him. *shrug* different people need different things to stay centered and sane.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not saying anything wrong with enjoying it.But its not "needed" to stay connected in couples that don't let children divide them in the first place.At least not all couples.I certainly don't think its "unhealthy" if you don't need it and can stay centered and sane and connected to your spouse without it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I wasn't REFERRRING to him or him only .The part about him was more about the gift giving part but mostly IN GENERAL.
> 
> Same with needing to go on a trip or have an over nighter to get alone time ...IN GENERAL.
> 
> This thread was about the idea IN GENERAL.His situation and some of the REPLIES are what spurred me to start the topic.


For the billionth time: no one has said that every couple needs to get away alone for a weekend without the kids to keep connected. However, getting away without the kids for a weekend absolutely _can_ help keep a husband and wife connected in many, if not most, situations.



> Can you compute the fact you are not interupted by your children nightly every single night?


Yes, I can! THAT makes sense. It's the first thing you've said that is actually related to what I have been trying to say. I absolutely can compute that. 

BUT, just knowing that your children are across the hall or upstairs, and that they _might_ get out of bed, can be a distraction as well. Never knowing for sure if you're going to be interrupted...needing to keep the bedroom door unlocked in case one of them has a nightmare...looking towards the door when the floor creaks...

Whereas being entirely alone, without the possibility of being interrupted by your children, I would think would make things that much more relaxing. Even being away from our pets for a night helps my husband and I relax more. 

It's not that a husband and wife can't connect with children around, just that it, likely, makes things more complicated.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> For the billionth time: no one has said that every couple needs to get away alone for a weekend without the kids to keep connected.


For the billionth and ONE time YES they HAVE.And that is ONE of the reasons I started this thread.So don't ENGAGE in my thread if you don't like it that I am responding to that SENTIMENT.

YOU your self said its UNHEALTHY for a couple to never "get away overnight" without children "interupting" as if that is impossibble..

You don't even have children..please do not tell ME what is possible or impossilbe for every couple with kids.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

[QUOTEI would think would make things that much more relaxing. Even being away from our pets for a night helps my husband and I relax more. 
][/QUOTE]

:scratchhead:

That explains it.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Even being away from our pets for a night helps my husband and I relax more.


You need to start not just saving up for babysitters (over night) but those boarding fees can add up.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> You need to start not just saving up for babysitters (over night) but those boarding fees can add up.


You enjoy baiting people, don't you? What I saw from C2W was that SOME people feel more relaxed when the kids are not around. It's true. I feel more relaxed when my kids spend the night at my sister's or my mom and dad's house. It wasn't until LAST YEAR that my husband and I were able to spend a night alone. Mom and dad took the kids overnight for us. It was great...and I only wish we had done it YEARS ago. I think a LOT of things would have been different, had we only taken even ONE weekend a year for just the two of us. So any couple who says "we need this time away"... I don't argue with them. In fact, I applaud them for recognizing that they need that time to reconnect...WITHOUT any possible interruptions from the kids.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> You enjoy baiting people, don't you? What I saw from C2W was that SOME people feel more relaxed when the kids are not around. It's true. I feel more relaxed when my kids spend the night at my sister's or my mom and dad's house. It wasn't until LAST YEAR that my husband and I were able to spend a night alone. Mom and dad took the kids overnight for us. It was great...and I only wish we had done it YEARS ago. I think a LOT of things would have been different, had we only taken even ONE weekend a year for just the two of us. So any couple who says "we need this time away"... I don't argue with them. In fact, I applaud them for recognizing that they need that time to reconnect...WITHOUT any possible interruptions from the kids.


NO I don't enjoy "baiting people"..I have had "overnighters" with my husband periodically for 25 years..It was "nice" but did not make my marriage intimacy but if we had depended on that it would have.Most of the in fact memorable intimate nights we have ever had were with kids in the house in fact the BULK.It wasn't because they were "here' its because we didn't wait around for them to be "gone" total(total alone) and seized the moments we had .That is what made our marriage.Not trying to get rid of kids (and now animals apparently). to "connect" that is a luxury not the meat...


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I'll just say this..for many (maybe even most) couples you don't NEED to get rid of kids and HECK the cat to be able to spend time together connecting.Sure it may be nice for some who cant focus on their spouse because a dog is in the vicinity ..but I guess I'm weird.I can focus on my husband and relax completely regardless that a child is ASLEEP in the other room or a cat is asleep in a cat bed.Maybe that's how we made it..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> It was great.


No one said it cant be "great" ..I'm saying it can be GREAT with out it..


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> NO I don't enjoy "baiting people"..I have had "overnighters" with my husband periodically for 25 years..It was "nice" but did not make my marriage intimacy but if we had depended on that it would have.Most of the in fact memorable intimate nights we have ever had were with kids in the house in fact the BULK.It wasn't because they were "here' its because we didn't wait around for them to be "gone" total(total alone) and seized the moments we had .That is what made our marriage.Not trying to get rid of kids (and now animals apparently). to "connect" that is a luxury not the meat...





dallasapple said:


> I'll just say this..for many (maybe even most) couples you don't NEED to get rid of kids and HECK the cat to be able to spend time together connecting.Sure it may be nice for some who cant focus on their spouse because a dog is in the vicinity ..but I guess I'm weird.I can focus on my husband and relax completely regardless that a child is ASLEEP in the other room or a cat is asleep in a cat bed.Maybe that's how we made it..


Dallas, I'm not talking about getting rid of the kids. Obviously we did SOMETHING right because we're still together. But I think, for us, we wouldn't have had SOME of the problems we did, had we had that time ALONE. I love my kids. Wouldn't trade them for anything. I love being with them, I love doing things for them. But we co-slept with each of them. There has only been MAYBE two years in the 13 we have been married that we have not had a child in our bed. We had to go into the bathroom for sex often. For three years, we actually shared a room with ALL THREE of the kids. We have never gone anywhere overnight without them. They have stayed only with relatives overnight, thus far. The oldest just turned 12. 

During the time we shared a bedroom with all of the kids, we were renting an apartment with MIL and BIL. Still, there were no funds to go overnight alone. If there had been, we would have... no doubt about it. But the difference between what I am saying and what you are implying is that we wouldn't have been seeking out a babysitter, who was just looking to get paid. They would have been with grandma... and who doesn't love spending time with grandma?? 

Regarding animals. I didn't see ANYTHING about "boarding" them. I never have. Even going away for a weekend with the kids, we put down food, water, and have a place for the dog to do his business. Even going away for a week, it was relatives caring for the pets, not a kennel. And they never required compensation...only make sure the pets had enough food with them. And yes, I would absolutely love a break from our dog sometimes! The mutt insists on getting right in hubby's face all the time... and he LOVES to come between us. It's irritating. So yes, I can understand a break...even from the dog!

Maybe you're right. Maybe most don't NEED that time alone, away from even the kids and animals. But who is anyone else to judge if someone DOES need that time away? Not me, and certainly not you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> No one said it cant be "great" ..I'm saying it can be GREAT with out it..


Maybe it can for some. But it isn't that way for EVERYONE, no matter how much they love their kids. Sometimes, people DO need that time away to relax. Again, I won't judge if someone feels that way. I applaud that they recognize that, rather than blow up and/or lash out at the kids!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Maybe it can for some. But it isn't that way for EVERYONE, no matter how much they love their kids. Sometimes, people DO need that time away to relax. Again, I won't judge if someone feels that way. I applaud that they recognize that, rather than blow up and/or lash out at the kids!


O.K Im ONLY talking about the people that DON"T need that.That have strong and heck even STRONGER marriages than people who do need it that will not "blow up at their kids" because they dont get that..ONLY people that A) have a super connection without it..B) better than those that get that C) never resent their kids over it...

ONLY those people is what I'm talking about on MY thread.OH and people who also can get a great connection with animals around too.


Those people are not "unhealthy" "lost in their kids /animals" have forgotten they are married..and cant possiblly be connected.

I don't CARE TBH that some say its a "need" in marriage I'm saying its NOT a need for many who do just as well even better in marriage than those who claim it is.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Yes, some need this in their marriage, a few don't.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh geez. My point about the pets is that eve they can be distracting. And they are! Maybe your cats have never done this, dallas, but nearly every time my husband are making out on the bed, our cat and/or dog jumps up and tries to get attention. Or sleep. It doesn't make for a very romantic time. Now, we're not stupid. We push them off of the bed and get back to our business, but this can happen three or four times a night sometimes. And it gets stressful. When we leave for three days for our anniversary, we leave them with our parents/have them come over and feed them, and it makes a WORLD of difference. To have that sexual passion like we do at home _without_ the interruptions makes the time extra special. 

I can imagine that it can be the same with the kids, especially with those couples who have a large family. I'm not saying that the time husband and wife have at home with their kids is second best. In fact, I would think those times would be the most coveted, the most precious. But it's also natural for a husband and wife to desire real alone time, without the interruptions and potential distractions. And yes, I absolutely believe that couples "need" that kind of alone time. Not every couple(apparently, since you say you and your husband didn't), but just because you didn't need it doesn't mean other couples don't.

And no, I don't agree that those marriages who don't get away for the weekend are stronger than those who do. That's BS, and no one here is qualified to make such a blanket statement.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

These women who become so focused on their kids that they forget to be a wife and girlfriend to their husband are the first to cry "WHY? WHAT HAPPENED" when their neglected husband goes and has an affair with someone who does care about their needs. 

And the same mother won't let their kids become independent and live their own lives and then wonder why their kids go off to college and never call or want to come home again. 

Get a clue ladies..and a life. Live WITH your kids, not FOR them! It's better for everyone all around. Yes, your kids WILL survive without you for an overnight or weekend trip with your spouse. Sheesh! :slap:

Doing the dishes together, having a quickie or taking your kids to the playground and watching them play is NOT the same as getting away for a weekend to spend time together as a couple when you can be and act as ADULTS and reconnect.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> O.K Im ONLY talking about the people that DON"T need that.That have strong and heck even STRONGER marriages than people who do need it that will not "blow up at their kids" because they dont get that..ONLY people that A) have a super connection without it..B) better than those that get that C) never resent their kids over it...
> 
> ONLY those people is what I'm talking about on MY thread.OH and people who also can get a great connection with animals around too.
> 
> ...


Oh FFS, Dallas. You make it sound like your marriage is superior. Newsflash. It isn't Your marriage works for YOU. Their marriage, whether they choose to go away for a weekend together to unwind without any interruptions or not, is what works FOR THEM. In the 12 years I have been a parent, I have NEVER ONCE resented my kids, nor have I blown up at them in any way that could make me look like a bad parent. But it doesn't change the fact that the ONE NIGHT in almost 13 years of marriage that my husband and I have had ALONE since the kids were born wasn't appreciated and much needed FOR US to reconnect. AS you said in the quoted post...I don't CARE if you never needed time alone with your husband, without interruptions. Good for you. But it doesn't make YOUR marriage *BETTER* than mine. It only makes it *different*.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Oh FFS, Dallas. You make it sound like your marriage is superior.


How? That I dont NEED nor does my husband an overnight getaway even from our dogs and cats to stay connected?

How does that make me sound like Im "superior"?

What do YOU think that sounds superior? sorry I never said that.and that's not what I meant..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> These women who become so focused on their kids that they forget to be a wife and girlfriend to their husband are the first to cry "WHY? WHAT HAPPENED" when their neglected husband goes and has an affair with someone who does care about their needs.


No one is talking about neglect.Projection anyone?You DON"T have to go OUT of town to NOT NEGLECT your husband ..OR WIFE ..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Get a clue ladies..and a life. Live WITH your kids, not FOR them! It's better for everyone all around. Yes, your kids WILL survive without you for an overnight or weekend trip with your spouse. Sheesh!


Have you even read what this discussion is about? Who are you telling to get a clue ?

And why are you saying "sheesh"..Did you get the wrong thread?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> *That have strong and heck even STRONGER marriages than people who do need it* that will not "blow up at their kids" because they dont get that..ONLY people that A) have a super connection without it..B) *better than those that get that* C) never resent their kids over it...


It sure sounds like that was what you meant...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> How? That I dont NEED nor does my husband an overnight getaway even from our dogs and cats to stay connected?
> 
> How does that make me sound like Im "superior"?
> 
> What do YOU think that sounds superior? sorry I never said that.and that's not what I meant..


Really? you don't think saying that YOU and your husband don't need that time alone makes you seem BETTER than those who do? Are you serious? 



> I'm saying its NOT a need for many who do just as well *even better* in marriage than those who claim it is.


You didn't think anyone would find the above quote as implying that you, or anyone who feels this way, are better/superior? Really?

Or even this little gem:


> Im ONLY talking about the people that DON"T need that.*That have strong and heck even STRONGER marriages* than people who do need it


You REALLY don't see how someone would see that as you thinking you are superior/better? You're joking, right?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> No one is talking about neglect.Projection anyone?You DON"T have to go OUT of town to NOT NEGLECT your husband ..OR WIFE ..


No, you don't. It's perfectly possible to meet your spouses need without a weekend getaway. Again, no one has argued this. 

But, with the situation this whole conversation stemmed from, jd and his wife DO need complete alone time. She HAS neglected her husband entirely.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> No, you don't. It's perfectly possible to meet your spouses need without a weekend getaway. Again, no one has argued this.
> 
> But, with the situation this whole conversation stemmed from, jd and his wife DO need complete alone time. She HAS neglected her husband entirely.


Exactly!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> It sure sounds like that was what you meant...


It sounds like what I meant?

What I meant was YOU CAN (yes CAN) have as strong or STRONGER marriage than people who go on "overnighters" .How is that saying its superior? I'm saying it CAN be..If your heart and mind is in the right place overnighters will not make or break you let alone make YOUR marriage superior to those who dont..


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> No, you don't. It's perfectly possible to meet your spouses need without a weekend getaway. Again, no one has argued this.
> 
> But, with the situation this whole conversation stemmed from, jd and his wife DO need complete alone time. She HAS neglected her husband entirely.


And I have said 1,000 times this is MY thread..I'm NOT talking about JD ..I'm talking about ANYONE..

I'm not talking about "entirely neglecting your spouse"..I dont eve think NOT going on over nighters IS neglect IN GENERAL (get that IN general!) ..Stop reverting to JD's situation that is NOT what I'm talking about ..


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

jd08 said:


> Going forward I will not make this "mistake" again. Since we are still in town we will do what she wants on her birthday tomorrow and that's the end of it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


 If feel really sorry for you. Your wife is being a total idiot. She is obviously one of those "helicopter moms" that are so prevalent these days and life is going to get a lot harder for her when her YOUNG children grow older and decide they want to head out and have a social life, make friends and she can't decide what their every move is going to be. That is the reality of life and parenthood. 

Dude, next year just get her a set of golf clubs or some tickets to a a NASCAR race and call it a day.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm not talking about JD's situation ..Im not talking about JD's situation!...I'm not talking about JD's situation..!

Is that enough clarification? I'm talking about the SUBJECT of over nighter's in GENERAL and in couples who don't have severe intimacy problems as well!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> It sounds like what I meant?
> 
> What I meant was YOU CAN (yes CAN) have as strong or STRONGER marriage than people who go on "overnighters" .How is that saying its superior? I'm saying it CAN be..If your heart and mind is in the right place overnighters will not make or break you let alone make YOUR marriage superior to those who dont..


Okay, fine. I will agree with that. Do you also agree that those who _do_ go on weekend getaways can _also_ have stronger marriages than those who don't?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> It's perfectly possible to meet your spouses need without a weekend getaway. Again, no one has argued this.


YES they DID on JD's thread and it was ALL couples..Thats why I started this thread..It was ALL couples..NEED "overnighters" to reconnect and it was "crucial"..I took objection to that..because I think its BS.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Okay, fine. I will agree with that. Do you also agree that those who _do_ go on weekend getaways can _also_ have stronger marriages than those who don't?



Possibly..If the main connection is during the whole year and weekend getaways are reinforcement sure.Weekend getaways though are GRAVY for a strong couple..NOT the "meat".(in general)


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> And I have said 1,000 times this is MY thread..I'm NOT talking about JD ..I'm talking about ANYONE..
> 
> I'm not talking about "entirely neglecting your spouse"..I dont eve think NOT going on over nighters IS neglect IN GENERAL (get that IN general!) ..Stop reverting to JD's situation that is NOT what I'm talking about ..


You missed the point. Taking jd and his wife out of it, there are _other_ situations where one spouse needs complete alone time with the other. Jd and his wife aren't the only couple going through something like this. Maricha made the same point I'm making: some spouses _do_ need complete alone time with each other, and not because their marriage is any less strong than yours or mine, but because it's been a while since they've had that alone time. For them, they _need_ those weekend getaways every now and then. 

You and your husband are obviously very happy, even without the getaways. I'm sure there are other couples like you too. But there are also those who, due to life in general, aren't able to get a lot of real alone time, and it _can_ weigh on the relationship. When my husband works overtime, like he has been the last few weeks, it can make our intimacy lessen in frequency and quantity. He's more stressed, it takes him longer to relax, he needs his own downtime, we go workout. But he gets up really early, so it's not uncommon to have only thirty minutes together where we're cuddling, or having sexual intimacy. So when we go those weekend getaways the one time a year they happen, it makes those moments even more meaningful. It's like recharging the batteries. And yes, we need those moments. Why? Because they give us the opportunity to push the rest of our lives aside for a moment, and only focus on each other. It's like going back to when we were dating, almost. 

I can't wait for our anniversary this year. Even if we can't get away to a hotel or something, we have plans to have a great dinner together(mmmmm....crab!), and we're going to spend the weekend having lots of fun. I'm going to turn my phone off, he's going to turn his off, and we're going to pretend as if we're on vacation. And since we're going to have a baby around October/November, we plan on really enjoying this anniversary.  

And yes, if one spouse needs a getaway and the other refuses to go, I see that as a form of neglect.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> YES they DID on JD's thread and it was ALL couples..Thats why I started this thread..It was ALL couples..NEED "overnighters" to reconnect and it was "crucial"..I took objection to that..because I think its BS.


But, as you said... this thread isn't about JD nor his thread. And I haven't seen anyone in THIS thread say this. And if people don't read JD's thread, then they will wonder wtf you're talking about. :scratchhead:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Possibly..If the main connection is during the whole year and weekend getaways are reinforcement sure.Weekend getaways though are GRAVY for a strong couple..NOT the "meat".(in general)


Of course it's not the meat. That would be a really crummy marriage. But, for some couples, it _can_ be an essential part of their relationship.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

So _some_ couples who don't go on weekend getaways can have healthier marriages than those who do, _and_ _some_ couples who _do_ go on weekend getaways can have healthier marriages than those who don't...

I agree with that, then.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> But, as you said... this thread isn't about JD nor his thread. And I haven't seen anyone in THIS thread say this. And if people don't read JD's thread, then they will wonder wtf you're talking about. :scratchhead:


I'm talking about a "view" that was expressed on his thread.By another posters comment about ALL couples..do you want me to quote him?It was an opinion about ALL couples not just JD's situation ..I took it and started the topic..I'm assuming his "view" is shard by some others and I'm sorry wanted to DEBATE that view..there were other extreme opinions about "all couples" all "mothers " etc. expressed on the thread..Including "all pregnant women can not be rational" (or to some extent) if I started that topic it wouldn't be about JD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you ever heard of a spin off thread? ???


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> (mmmmm....crab!),


Speaking of pregnant...be careful with the shell fish..just sayin.(and peanuts).


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Have you even read what this discussion is about? Who are you telling to get a clue ?
> 
> And why are you saying "sheesh"..Did you get the wrong thread?


Yeah, I read the whole thread and _even though_ you didn't even bother to put a link up to the OTHER thread you keep referencing but I've managed to figure it out. 

I'm telling people like YOU to get a clue and figure out that a mother who is so totally consumed by her children that she can't go away with her husband for an overnighter should get a friggin' clue because sooner or later he's going to find someone who HAS got a clue about how to treat her husband right!

And I say "sheesh" about all these clueless women who can't seem to figure it out that a couple needs some ALONE time together and that isn't with the kids sleeping in the room next to them. If you are so consumed by your kids that you don't act like your husband still plays a role in your marriage and treat him like a MAN, not just a father, then you are going to LOSE THAT MAN. Get a clue?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Speaking of pregnant...be careful with the shell fish..just sayin.(and peanuts).


I will. I'll only be eating it once while preggo, so no biggy.  Man oh man, I can't wait though!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Of course it's not the meat. That would be a really crummy marriage. But, for some couples, it _can_ be an essential part of their relationship.


Keeping with the "meat" theme. Look at it this way. You have chicken and dumplings, fried chicken, baked chicken day in, day out. You like it. It satisfies the hunger... it gets the job done. But then, for a day or two, you get chicken marsala. It's great once in a while, as a treat, but if you have it all the time it just becomes part of the "everyday". Some need that chicken marsala once a month, once a year, or whatever... just to get the things of everyday out of their heads for a few days. For them, that short break IS an essential part of the marriage because it rejuvenates them and they are able to tackle the tasks again... BECAUSE they were able to "escape" for a moment.

I understand that some don't need this... but really, there are some who DO.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> So _some_ couples who don't go on weekend getaways can have healthier marriages than those who do, _and_ _some_ couples who _do_ go on weekend getaways can have healthier marriages than those who don't...
> 
> I agree with that, then.


OMG!! We AGREE!! How about "some couples who go on weekend get aways can still have marriages that suck..and some couples who don't can have marriages that suck?

Conclusion weekend getaways probably have little to do or NOT do with a successful marriage.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> I'm not talking about JD's situation ..Im not talking about JD's situation!...I'm not talking about JD's situation..!
> 
> Is that enough clarification? I'm talking about the SUBJECT of over nighter's in GENERAL and in couples who don't have severe intimacy problems as well!


:lol:You're a real control freak, aren't you? :rofl: Have you thrown the keyboard across the room yet?  :rofl:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Keeping with the "meat" theme. Look at it this way. You have chicken and dumplings, fried chicken, baked chicken day in, day out. You like it. It satisfies the hunger... it gets the job done. But then, for a day or two, you get chicken marsala. It's great once in a while, as a treat, but if you have it all the time it just becomes part of the "everyday". Some need that chicken marsala once a month, once a year, or whatever... just to get the things of everyday out of their heads for a few days. For them, that short break IS an essential part of the marriage because it rejuvenates them and they are able to tackle the tasks again... BECAUSE they were able to "escape" for a moment.
> 
> I understand that some don't need this... but really, there are some who DO.


Totally right. Exactly. I already know that my husband and I will be ones who do, and I'm already making plans to have the in-laws babysit the little one.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> OMG!! We AGREE!! How about "some couples who go on weekend get aways can still have marriages that suck..and some couples who don't can have marriages that suck?
> 
> Conclusion weekend getaways probably have little to do or NOT do with a successful marriage.


See, it's the last part I will never agree with. I agree with the first paragraph, but I absolutely don't agree with your conclusion. For some people it absolutely helps their successful marriage to get away from diapers and sticky messes and fussing for a weekend and just bathe in the presence of the one they desire.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> I'm talking about a "view" that was expressed on his thread.By another posters comment about ALL couples..do you want me to quote him?It was an opinion about ALL couples not just JD's situation ..I took it and started the topic..I'm assuming his "view" is shard by some others and I'm sorry wanted to DEBATE that view..there were other extreme opinions about "all couples" all "mothers " etc. expressed on the thread..Including "all pregnant women can not be rational" (or to some extent) if I started that topic it wouldn't be about JD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Have you ever heard of a spin off thread? ???


Yes, Dallas, I have heard of a spin off thread. 

The only thing I was saying is that without reading the posts you are talking about, others who read this one will be clueless because no one HERE has been saying that. Ya know?

Oh, and no need to get worked up to the point that you are using so many exclamation points. It's not THAT excite-worthy.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh, and I don't eat peanuts anyway.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I'm telling people like YOU to get a clue and figure out that a mother who is so totally consumed by her children that she can't go away with her husband for an overnighter should get a friggin' clue because sooner or later he's going to find someone who HAS got a clue about how to treat her husband right!


I have made it abuntantly clear .Im not talking about a mother "without a clue" have you read ANY of my posts?In fact this is about a mother WITH a clue..get that?And a HUSBAND with a clue.

O.K ATTENTION ...the "mother and father both have a clue"!

Jeez..I used the topic and now I'm the one who needs to get a clue?How many times have I said IN GENERAL..Get a CLUE about what I'm talking about before commenting on this thread.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I've known of couples who had pretty crummy marriages and they went away for a week together, and were able to rekindle the passion they once had. They got back and went into marriage counseling. 

Did the trip fix the marriage? No. But it helped them see that there was actually something left to salvage. That the last however many years together hadn't been for nothing.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Conclusion weekend getaways probably have little to do or NOT do with a successful marriage.


Yeah, but spouses who don't give a crap about the other spouse's needs are NOT going to have a successful marriage and in the end, isn't this all about that? 

A man wants to get away for a weekend alone with his wife, who is all TOO CONSUMED with being a mother and she basically turns him down. Too much of that kind of rejection is going to take it's toll. 

I told my ex husband this over and over again in our 23 years of marriage: If you shove someone away often enough, one day they are going to turn around and walk away. 

So if your husband wants/needs a weekend away with you ALONE then DO IT, because if you don't accommodate his needs then DO NOT be surprised when one day you find him DOING IT with someone else.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Totally right. Exactly. I already know that my husband and I will be ones who do, and I'm already making plans to have the in-laws babysit the little one.


And chances are you'll have a healthier marriage and well adjusted kids and family life as a result. Plus the grandparents will love it. :smthumbup:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Oh, and I don't eat peanuts anyway.


Derail (on MY thread..) news is peanuts NOT a good idea for expectant mothers..(not even peanut butter) ..risks inconclusive but better safe than not safe.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Yeah, but spouses who don't give a crap about the other spouse's needs are NOT going to have a successful marriage and in the end, isn't this all about that?
> 
> A man wants to get away for a weekend alone with his wife, who is all TOO CONSUMED with being a mother and she basically turns him down. Too much of that kind of rejection is going to take it's toll.
> 
> ...


What I'm saying if you are giving EACH other enough attention day to day (not shoving them aside for kids) this "need " for weekend getaway "alone time" is not make or break you at all.

If I AND my husband made plenty of time for each other routinely ...but I wanted to "go out of town" and he wasnt comfortable and he found me "doing it " with someone else that would make me a selfish self centered spoiled adulteress.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> And chances are you'll have a healthier marriage and well adjusted kids and family life as a result. Plus the grandparents will love it. :smthumbup:


My MIL and FIL are already thrilled to babysit for us. So are his grandparents. I likely won't do a full overnight for at least a few months...but definitely all day/dinner time until the little one is old enough to stay the whole night.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> I have made it abuntantly clear .Im not talking about a mother "without a clue" have you read ANY of my posts?In fact this is about a mother WITH a clue..get that?And a HUSBAND with a clue.
> 
> O.K ATTENTION ...the "mother and father both have a clue"!
> 
> Jeez..I used the topic and now I'm the one who needs to get a clue?How many times have I said IN GENERAL..Get a CLUE about what I'm talking about before commenting on this thread.


I can comment on any damn thread I please. Get over yourself! :rofl: Who appointed YOU moderator? You don't own ANY thread on this forum even though you chose to START one, so pipe down! 

MY comment is about the fact that a mother who is SO consumed about NOT wanting to leave her child for an overnighter to spend some quality time with her husband had better GET A CLUE about the situation before her husband decides he can find someone else to fulfill his needs. 

As far as I'm concerned, any mother who can't go off on an overnight for some romantic one-on-one time with her husband because it means leaving the kid behind is CLUELESS about what the repercussions of doing this may be. It indicates that there is something WRONG with her thinking and priorities.

For every action there is a reaction and she shouldn't be surprised when her husband's reaction to being blown off and neglected is that he goes off to have an AFFAIR at some point in their marriage as a result of doing this. Surely you must be aware of this phenomenon seeing that you have spent some time on this forum and every other thread is about a marriage falling apart due to spousal neglect, affairs, etc.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I can comment on any damn thread I please. Get over yourself! Who appointed YOU moderator? You don't own ANY thread on this forum even though you chose to START one, so pipe down!


You keep commenting about ANOTHER thread on MY thread not adressing MY topic which is OFF topic..so no I'm not a moderator but you are off topic on MY thread..this(MY THREAD) is NOT about about women who have no clue and neglect their husbands..If you insist on going off topic after I have reminded you its not the topic then I will just report you ..Stay on topic within reason (which is NOT about women who put their kids above their husbands) and we will get along just fine.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> What I'm saying if you are giving EACH other enough attention day to day (not shoving them aside for kids) this "need " for weekend getaway "alone time" is not make or break you at all.


I agree that if you are giving each other attention then you should not NEED a weekend getaway to have a great marriage. But it would sure would be a nice thing to have, especially if one of you wants it! 

Sure, you can drink coffee black but doesn't a little sugar and cream add something to it? Some whip cream and a cherry on a sundae is a good thing to have too. :smthumbup:

With the thread that was being referenced the husband NEEDED and WANTED a weekend away and the wife blew him off and totally disregarded his needs, so yeah, she shouldn't be surprised when she finds him bed with another woman. 

I will say that doing it as a birthday present wasn't the best idea if she wasn't down with it. Better to just do it as a weekend getaway at some point. Sounds like they need to do some serious communicating.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Well, the topic is about weekend getaways and trips and whether or not they're essential to a successful marriage. Why do couples go on weekend getaways and trips alone without their kids? To spend time together. So, naturally, we're going to discuss _when_ those trips are essential, and they often become essential when a husband or wife is neglecting their spouse. 

So, she's not off topic. If she were only referring to JD's wife then she would be, but she's referring to all wives who neglect their husbands desire to go on a weekend getaway. And weekend getaways _are_ the topic.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> As far as I'm concerned, any mother who can't go off on an overnight for some romantic one-on-one time with her husband because it means leaving the kid behind is CLUELESS about what the repercussions of doing this may be. It indicates that there is something WRONG with her thinking and priorities.


O.K this is on topic..and I completely disagree..and also you have no evidence of it..She may be "clueless " of the repercussions of living with some unsavory type man..I will agree with that ..but there is nothing wrong with HER thinking or priorities simply based on what I'm talking about..could be something wrong with HIS ..but not hers.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> I agree that if you are giving each other attention then you should not NEED a weekend getaway to have a great marriage. But it would sure would be a nice thing to have, especially if one of you wants it!
> 
> Sure, you can drink coffee black but doesn't a little sugar and cream add something to it? Some whip cream and a cherry on a sundae is a good thing to have too. :smthumbup:
> 
> ...


Momentary derail: (sorry dallas....it'll be quick.  ) They did communicate. He asked her if she wanted to go before he made the plans(asked her months in advance) and she said yes, that she would love to go. He triple checked with her as the weeks went by, and she still said she was excited to go. Then canceled the day they were going to leave. 

So yeah, SHE needs to learn some serious communication skills.

Derail over.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> So, naturally, we're going to discuss when those trips are essential, and they often become essential when a husband or wife is neglecting their spouse.


That's my point.(one of them) they aren't likely to be "essential" unless a husband or wife is neglecting their spouse daily.(at home)


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> You keep commenting about ANOTHER thread on MY thread not adressing MY topic which is OFF topic..so no I'm not a moderator but you are off topic on MY thread..this(MY THREAD) is NOT about about women who have no clue and neglect their husbands..If you insist on going off topic after I have reminded you its not the topic then I will just report you ..Stay on topic within reason (which is NOT about women who put their kids above their husbands) and we will get along just fine.


Listen, if a woman doesn't want to go away with her husband for a romantic weekend after he's obviously made it known that it's important to him then isn't that neglect? Isn't that a problem that could potentially become an even bigger problem in a marriage? 

My point is that a woman who won't go away with her husband for a romantic getaway is neglecting her husband. That's pretty much it. I don't see how it's not valid here. 

BTW, thread drift is a situation that happens on any thread, be it yours or someone else's.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Momentary derail: (sorry dallas....it'll be quick.  ) They did communicate. He asked her if she wanted to go before he made the plans(asked her months in advance) and she said yes, that she would love to go. He triple checked with her as the weeks went by, and she still said she was excited to go. Then canceled the day they were going to leave.
> 
> So yeah, SHE needs to learn some serious communication skills.
> 
> Derail over.


I agree...but his case is not the only case..I am talking as a general .I have no problem..that JD's wife is NEGLECTFUL but its not because she wont go on a weekend getaway.she just is..


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> That's my point.(one of them) they aren't likely to be "essential" unless a husband or wife is neglecting their spouse daily.(at home)


Right, which was exactly what she was talking about. 

Also, I emphatically disagree. Trips can be essential even in wonderful marriages.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> O.K this is on topic..and I completely disagree..and also you have no evidence of it..She may be "clueless " of the repercussions of living with some unsavory type man..I will agree with that ..but there is nothing wrong with HER thinking or priorities simply based on what I'm talking about..could be something wrong with HIS ..but not hers.


So you are saying that a woman who is so completely obsessed with her children and being a mother to the extent that she can't even go away for an overnight getaway with her husband doesn't have her priorities out of wack? That there is nothing wrong with her thinking? :wtf:

What his wrong with his? He wants to spend some quality time alone with his wife! What is wrong with that? :scratchhead:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Listen, if a woman doesn't want to go away with her husband for a romantic weekend after he's obviously made it known that it's important to him then isn't that neglect? Isn't that a problem that could potentially become an even bigger problem in a marriage?
> 
> My point is that a woman who won't go away with her husband for a romantic getaway is neglecting her husband. That's pretty much it. I don't see how it's not valid here.
> 
> BTW, thread drift is a situation that happens on any thread, be it yours or someone else's.


Bottom line is he is making an effort and she isn't. She will end up like that other thread- I took my husband for granted and now he's leaving-because one can only put up with so much until he says enough is enough geez!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I agree...but his case is not the only case..I am talking as a general .I have no problem..that JD's wife is NEGLECTFUL but its not because she wont go on a weekend getaway.she just is..


But choosing not to go on the trip was _also_ neglectful of his needs. Even in general, when one spouse wants to go on a trip and they ask their spouse if they want to go, and that person says yes, and then decides they don't want to go, that is being neglectful. When our spouse needs something from us and we refuse to give them that, we are neglecting them.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> Listen, if a woman doesn't want to go away with her husband for a romantic weekend after he's obviously made it known that it's important to him then isn't that neglect?


Absolutely not.No more than if a man said he wanted her to go scuba diving with him and she wouldn't is "neglect".Anymore than if she said if he wont go ice skating with her is neglect...

If she is giving him attention and affection at home..he is a BS er to say she is neglecting him for not going out of town with him for a weekend.

Not getting anything you want is "neglect" ..where would it end..Jesus...


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> That's my point.(one of them) they aren't likely to be "essential" unless a husband or wife is neglecting their spouse daily.(at home)


I think they are pretty essential in general for a lot of couples. Maybe not all, but quite a few. 

Like I said, you can eat a sundae without whipped cream and a cherry but is it quite as enjoyable? For some it is, but for many there's something missing.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> But choosing not to go on the trip was _also_ neglectful of his needs.


As I said on his thread..it was just a continuation of the daily neglect..this "overnighter" thing was just more of the same.Nothing new really...Go back and read his threads for the past year..I did.Their problem is day to day...not no "get away" out of town once and again.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> If she is giving him attention and affection at home..he is a BS er to say she is neglecting him for not going out of town with him for a weekend.


But for HIM it might be something he desperately wants and needs. If he wants to make it happen and she keeps turning him down then doesn't it stand to reason that he will start feeling rejected and neglected? 

Some people need to get away for some time alone with their spouse sans the kids. It seems like a reasonable thing for adults to want some adult-only alone time. This is one of those things that you really do need to communicate with each other during the course of a marriage.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> When our spouse needs something from us and we refuse to give them that, we are neglecting them.


:iagree: :iagree:


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> I think they are pretty essential in general for a lot of couples. Maybe not all, but quite a few.


Definately not all.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> As I said on his thread..it was just a continuation of the daily neglect..this "overnighter" thing was just more of the same.Nothing new really...Go back and read his threads for the past year..I did.Their problem is day to day...not no "get away" out of town once and again.


Icing on the cake of a long line of neglectful behavior. So if she doesn't catch a clue then she shouldn't be surprised when/if he has an affair, which brings me to my first point.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Absolutely not.No more than if a man said he wanted her to go scuba diving with him and she wouldn't is "neglect".Anymore than if she said if he wont go ice skating with her is neglect...
> 
> If she is giving him attention and affection at home..he is a BS er to say she is neglecting him for not going out of town with him for a weekend.
> 
> Not getting anything you want is "neglect" ..where would it end..Jesus...


You're taking a general situation and comparing it to specifics. Ice skating, scuba diving, ballroom dancing, bowling, going to a football game...those are all specifics, and none of them are essentials. Not wanting to do _those_ things isn't neglectful, it's just a difference in tastes. 

But refusing to go on an overnight/weekend trip when your spouse needs some real one-on-one alone time with you definitely _is_ neglect. You're saying, "I don't value spending time with you. So much so, I'd rather do xyz than spend time with you." 

What activities you choose to do on the trip, not essential. They're bonuses. But the trip itself, the idea of spending quality time with your spouse away from other distractions, absolutely 100% IS neglect when they express a need for it.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> Definately not all.


I'll give you that. I know quite a few happily married couples who never go away without their kids and are doing very well. But it's a mutual decision that both are happy with.

When one person desires something and the other one is unwilling to accommodate them in any shape or form then the problems start.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> As I said on his thread..it was just a continuation of the daily neglect..this "overnighter" thing was just more of the same.Nothing new really...Go back and read his threads for the past year..I did.Their problem is day to day...not no "get away" out of town once and again.


Their "main" problem is _her_ priorities, which causes the day to day issues in the first place, and are exactly why she chose to cancel on him last minute. So the getaway is a directly connected to the day to day issues. It's not a one or other, it's both. Her priorities are entirely focused on what _she_ wants, which causes a neglect of his needs on the day-to-day basis, and was why he wanted to take the trip.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> So you are saying that a woman who is so completely obsessed with her children and being a mother to the extent that she can't even go away for an overnight getaway with her husband doesn't have her priorities out of wack? That there is nothing wrong with her thinking?


OMG!!!! when in the HELL did I say that?????????????????????

Seriously are you smoking crack? Not only did I NEVER say that I said the opposite..I'm not resonding to you anymore because apparrently you have trouble reading or something.But have fun .Peace...


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

dallasapple said:


> Absolutely not.No more than if a man said he wanted her to go scuba diving with him and she wouldn't is "neglect".Anymore than if she said if he wont go ice skating with her is neglect...
> 
> If she is giving him attention and affection at home..he is a BS er to say she is neglecting him for not going out of town with him for a weekend.
> 
> Not getting anything you want is "neglect" ..where would it end..Jesus...


We're talking about a trip they can take to reconnect, not something just to say "hey, I swam with the dolphins!". If my husband said "Honey, we need to go away, just for a night or two, so we can touch base, make sure we're on track, and will stay on track" and I say "No, we don't need to do that. We're just fine the way we are." then yes, I would absolutely be neglecting him. HE'S trying to tell me something is wrong, and I'm not picking up on it...or I'm ignoring it. But to go somewhere, just to say "Hey, we got to swim with the dolphins!"... not the same. Not even remotely on the same level.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> We're talking about a trip they can take to reconnect, not something just to say "hey, I swam with the dolphins!". If my husband said "Honey, we need to go away, just for a night or two, so we can touch base, make sure we're on track, and will stay on track" and I say "No, we don't need to do that. We're just fine the way we are." then yes, I would absolutely be neglecting him. HE'S trying to tell me something is wrong, and I'm not picking up on it...or I'm ignoring it. But to go somewhere, just to say "Hey, we got to swim with the dolphins!"... not the same. Not even remotely on the same level.


Exactly.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Their "main" problem is _her_ priorities, which causes the day to day issues in the first place, and are exactly why she chose to cancel on him last minute. So the getaway is a directly connected to the day to day issues. It's not a one or other, it's both. Her priorities are entirely focused on what _she_ wants, which causes a neglect of his needs on the day-to-day basis, and was why he wanted to take the trip.


exactly..that is why the focus on the "not going on a getaway " is misplaced,,,its INDICATIVE of what day to day is..I would rather fix my day to day than go on vacation once a year to paradise then live in a slum the rest of the year.evne though with her? Vacation would have been slum as well.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> exactly..that is why the focus on the "not going on a getaway " is misplaced,,,its INDICATIVE of what day to day is..I would rather fix my day to day than go on vacation once a year to paradise then live in a slum the rest of the year.evne though with her? Vacation would have been slum as well.


Not necessarily. Assuming that the wife isn't doing it maliciously and is just too caught up in what she's doing to realize the reality of how her husband feels, getting away alone for a weekend absolutely could wake her up and bring her back to wife mode. _That_, in the end, is what will fix their day to day...getting her out of such a heavy mom mode, and getting her wife mode back. When she can be both, wife _and_ mother, the day to day issues will be resolved. Getting away for a weekend _can_ help to bring wife mode back, since there wouldn't be a daughter around to demand her attention.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

> We're talking about a trip they can take to reconnect, not something just to say "hey, I swam with the dolphins!"


Sigh...do no you not get that "they" would not have reconnected? Do you realize going "away" wasn't going to connect her to him? do you UNDERSTAND THAT?

Never mind..


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

:slap: You have a hard time posting without being insulting. I'll give it another shot:

WHAT is it that you are TRYING to say? We seem to have a hard time communicating here..

My point is: Isn't there something WRONG with a woman who has her priorities so out of wack that she can't even accommodate her husband's needs by going on a romantic overnight trip with him? You find nothing wrong with that? You don't find that neglectful? 

Why is that such a problem for you to comprehend and answer that? 

And no, I never have and am not smoking crack. I'm not even drinking tonight.


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Re connecting (so to speak) takes TWO people ..

Now Im sure someone is going to say "I disagree."

SHE is NOT connecting ..in a boat ..with a goat..in a house ...with a mouse..NO she is not connecting anywhere..Can ya'll not get that?


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Freak On a Leash said:


> :slap: You have a hard time posting without being insulting. I'll give it another shot:
> 
> WHAT is it that you are TRYING to say? We seem to have a hard time communicating here..
> 
> ...


You and I are on a different subject..Sorry.

You can talk to other people on my thread about what you want to talk about . I'm out.(with you)


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Sigh...do no you not get that "they" would not have reconnected? Do you realize going "away" wasn't going to connect her to him? do you UNDERSTAND THAT?
> 
> Never mind..


How do you know it wouldn't have connected them?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Re connecting (so to speak) takes TWO people ..
> 
> Now Im sure someone is going to say "I disagree."
> 
> SHE is NOT connecting ..in a boat ..with a goat..in a house ...with a mouse..NO she is not connecting anywhere..Can ya'll not get that?


Apparently not. You must be the only one with any idea what's going on.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Their "main" problem is _her_ priorities, which causes the day to day issues in the first place, and are exactly why she chose to cancel on him last minute. So the getaway is a directly connected to the day to day issues. It's not a one or other, it's both. Her priorities are entirely focused on what _she_ wants, which causes a neglect of his needs on the day-to-day basis, and was why he wanted to take the trip.


:iagree: :iagree: This is it! My ex was the same way. If it wasn't his way, then it was NO WAY. He never cared about what I wanted to do so after awhile I stopped caring about his needs. 

It's a vicious cycle and ends up in a bad place, which is what I was TRYING to say in my previous posts.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

dallasapple said:


> You and I are on a different subject..Sorry.
> 
> You can talk to other people on my thread about what you want to talk about . I'm out.(with you)


:scratchhead: Ok, well..maybe someone else can explain it to you. I'm obviously not doing it so well. 

I gotta go work out anyway. Have a good night.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Actually you're not on different subjects. At least, not from my perspective. But then, I agree with one poster and not the other, so maybe I'm just biased.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Have a good workout!


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Based on ya'lls analysis ..my husband can be devoted to me (daily) loving hardworking ..give me undivided attention (daily) put me first in his busy schedule but If I say ...I NEED TO GO OUT OF TOWN ..and he says "no" then he is "neglecting me? I say BS...

But I suppose I should threaten divorce..


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Have a good workout!


Thanks! After this thread I need it! Whew! 



dallasapple said:


> Based on ya'lls analysis ..my husband can be devoted to me (daily) loving hardworking ..give me undivided attention (daily) put me first in his busy schedule but If I say ...I NEED TO GO OUT OF TOWN ..and he says "no" then he is "neglecting me? I say BS...
> 
> But I suppose I should threaten divorce..


Rephrase it to: I NEED TO GO OUT OF TOWN TO SPEND QUALITY TIME ALONE WITH YOU

Depends on how important it is to you. Depends on often this happens. Depends on how much you each disregards each other's feelings, wants and needs...

Then yes, divorce may be the ultimate reaction in the end. Been there, done that


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## dallasapple (Jun 20, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> How do you know it wouldn't have connected them?


I don't..but the last time she cried.And the 2nd time she didn't go at all ...kind of a clue ya think?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Dallas, I think it is YOU who is not understanding what everyone else is saying... and I am starting to think you are being deliberately obtuse about this whole subject.

The point that you seem to have missed with what I was saying is that a scuba diving trip is frivolous (unless school/work related). A ROMANTIC trip is something for them to enjoy and be able to talk or anything else without interruptions. 

Also, could you please keep the quote reference in the parts you quote? It's much easier to locate the passages you are referencing. IOW, if you quote me, keep my name and the little number thing (along with the brackets, of course) so we can see what post you are quoting.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> Based on ya'lls analysis ..my husband can be devoted to me (daily) loving hardworking ..give me undivided attention (daily) put me first in his busy schedule but If I say ...I NEED TO GO OUT OF TOWN ..and he says "no" then he is "neglecting me? I say BS...
> 
> But I suppose I should threaten divorce..


If you really do _need_ to get out of town, then yes. That is neglect. 

Besides, if your husband was meeting your daily needs, I doubt he would say no to something you needed anyway.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Rephrase it to: *I NEED TO GO OUT OF TOWN TO SPEND QUALITY TIME ALONE WITH YOU
> *
> Depends on how important it is to you. Depends on often this happens. Depends on how much you each disregards each other's feelings, wants and needs...


THIS!!! Yes! That's exactly it. If you say "I need to get out of town" and he says no.... maybe not neglectful. BUT, if you say "I need to get out of town WITH YOU for some QUALITY alone time" and he says no... you betcha that's neglectful. If my husband and I had those exact words, I would take it to mean he doesn't want to spend time alone with me.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Well, I guess it means that I'm on point after all and am not smoking crack. 

Thanks for that. :smthumbup:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

dallasapple said:


> I don't..but the last time she cried.And the 2nd time she didn't go at all ...kind of a clue ya think?


It's a clue she didn't want to go, but not a clue that the trip wouldn't have helped. Each situation is different. This trip may have gone much better than the last if she had allowed it to.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> THIS!!! Yes! That's exactly it. If you say "I need to get out of town" and he says no.... maybe not neglectful. BUT, if you say "I need to get out of town WITH YOU for some QUALITY alone time" and he says no... you betcha that's neglectful. If my husband and I had those exact words, I would take it to mean he doesn't want to spend time alone with me.


Exactly. And if the neglect continues, divorce absolutely is an option.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Well, I guess it means that I'm on point after all and am not smoking crack.
> 
> Thanks for that. :smthumbup:


If you're smoking crack it means Maricha, myself, most of the other posters on this thread, and the majority of posters on jd's thread are all smoking crack too.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> If you're smoking crack it means Maricha, myself, most of the other posters on this thread, and the majority of posters on jd's thread are all smoking crack too.


LMAO! And I've never touched that stuff in my life! The only controlled substances which have entered my body have been prescribed by my doctor. And don't drink any alcohol either. So... I guess that makes me most sane of all! :rofl: 
Or at least cleanest/soberest


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> LMAO! And I've never touched that stuff in my life! The only controlled substances which have entered my body have been prescribed by my doctor. And don't drink any alcohol either. So... I guess that makes me most sane of all! :rofl:
> Or at least cleanest/soberest


Same here, save the alcohol. I drink(not right now, of course). I really like beer, wine and martinis. But I've never smoked anything in my life. Not even hookah.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Oh Geez..Would you LOOK AT THIS:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...70632-i-took-him-granted-now-hes-leaving.html

Threads like this are EXACTLY the point I was trying to make with my posts in this one. And now this poor woman is losing her husband. I wonder why? :scratchhead:

I guess she's finally figured it out. Too bad it seems to be too late. Maybe she should've listened to her husband more? Maybe gone on a few romantic weekends with him perhaps?


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Same here, save the alcohol. I drink(not right now, of course). I really like beer, wine and martinis. But I've never smoked anything in my life. Not even hookah.


I love to drink but not on Sunday nights before work and school for my son. 

I don't smoke anything but a good cigar once in awhile. 

No alcohol for the pregnant lady, but I don't need to tell you that.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Freak On a Leash said:


> Oh Geez..Would you LOOK AT THIS:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...70632-i-took-him-granted-now-hes-leaving.html
> 
> ...


Precisely. 

The point isn't even just about getaways...we should always be open to listen to our spouses needs. They often can be pleas for our attention, and if our spouse has to go so far to plead for our attention, we may already have damaged our marriage beyond repair.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Nope. No alcohol here. It sucks, cause I usually get a drink on date night as a little splurge. Now I splurge on chocolate.  Which is also amazing. No diss intended there. But I'm definitely excited for a nice big glass of beer.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

It's like I said, "If you push someone away too often, they will eventually turn around and walk away." 

Sad but true.  That's what I meant about these mothers who have to catch a clue that unless they want to be SINGLE mothers they'd better remember to be a wife and girlfriend to their husbands as well as a mother to their children. 

That goes for husbands too. It works both ways.


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## Freak On a Leash (Feb 19, 2010)

Created2Write said:


> Nope. No alcohol here. It sucks, cause I usually get a drink on date night as a little splurge. Now I splurge on chocolate.  Which is also amazing. No diss intended there. But I'm definitely excited for a nice big glass of beer.


It's a rough 9 months but you'll get through it. Good luck!  You can still have great sex! :smthumbup:


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

This is the "I don't want to hog the other thread so I'll run two at the same time thread."


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