# Saw Wife Cheating with my friend



## burnt

Hello,

3 days ago, we had a party at our place, many drinks were had, good food, conversation etc. I observed my wife being extra attentive to one of my friends, as the night carried on I just wanted to go to bed, but she, nor my friend did so they stayed up. Being a trusty person by nature, I went to bed....but then couldn't help but think something was going on, I looked outside and saw both of them kissing/groping each other. Right then, my perfect world seemed to implode and I knew this would be the end...my wife and my friend making out, etched in my memory for ever, how could I ever get over this. I'm at day 3 now and we're talking and seeking counsel, but I can't get past this.
She assures me it was nothing more than what I saw, and never was anything prior to that evening.
Reading this board I see much worse things were a couple have conconciled over. 
WTF is the next step here.??/All i can see is red and want a divorce. my kids are so important so I really don't want to screw this up and make the wrong decision....I know I need to chill for a while before I make any decisions but can someone tell me something...


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## Gabriel

burnt said:


> Hello,
> 
> I know I need to chill for a while before I make any decisions but can someone tell me something...


Do this. Chill before doing anything life-changing. You can work this out if you want, and she wants. Who the hell is your "friend" to do this to you? What a freaking a$$ hole! 

Counseling is good. Do not let your wife off the hook. It is very possible this was not the first time she got this friendly with your "friend". They were so comfortable with each other, that they were flirting right in front of you! 

Hold her accountable. If she is very remorseful, you are off to a good start. But if she tries to rug-sweep this, look out.


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## Shaggy

Make her get a polygraph and come fully clean about what she has been doing.

As for the friend, he should now be dead to both of you. If she ever contacts him or responds she is gone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

Did you confront them? What did you say to her and what'd she say? I'm sorry this happened. He needs to be axed from your life forever. I hope you call him out on what he did if you haven't already.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian

I second Shaggy. You should demand polygraph ! 

Just because you found them making out, that does not mean that was the extent of their relationship. They could have been carrying on full PA for some time already. You really do not know, and you should not assume anything. Also, most importantly, do not trust anything your W says at this point!

Also, send NC, and cut off your friend who really isn't your friend.


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## PHTlump

I disagree with a polygraph exam. Polygraphs aren't reliable enough to be admissible in court, so I wouldn't count on one to help decide my marriage.

I would go NC with the OM and insist on transparency with your wife. Also, start snooping. Put keyloggers on her computer, put a VAR in her car, and put spyware on her phone (if possible). You should get a good picture of what she's doing based on those.


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## TRy

burnt said:


> She assures me it was nothing more than what I saw, and never was anything prior to that evening.
> Reading this board I see much worse things were a couple have conconciled over.


Reading "this board" you will see that the cheating spouse will always claim that what you know about is all that ever happend. They never admit to more than you know. Reading this board you will also see that there is almost more to the story then what you happened to learn about.

Additionally, although she may be daring enough to steal a quick groping kiss on the front lawn, she would not sleep with someone on the front lawn. She would be far more careful when she does that, and it would be unlikely that you would have caught her doing that. You should treat the groping kiss as a tip off that something wrong is going on and not as the full event.

I am sorry to say that odds are that there is more to the story as it is very unlikely that you would catch her the very first time.


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## bryanp

You have got to be kidding me. She is trying to make it like it was nothing. Excuse me but:
1. You saw her groping and making out with a friend. (You need to notify this so called friends wife or girlfriend if he has one).
2. She made out with him at your home where you were throwing a party.
3. She made out with him at your home while she thought you were upstairs in your bed.

This shows she clearly has no respect for you whatsoever. How could you not think that she has been doing these things before and with other men?
Her disrespect to you is enormous doing this with a friend of yours outside in front of your home? If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so accepting as you have been? No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

She clearly did not even care if she got caught since it was so brazen in front of your home. Her actions indicate that she has little respect for you or your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will. Polygraphs are highly reliable but not 100% which is why they are not admissible.

You have huge problems in your marriage for your wife to humiliate and disrespect you in such a manner. I am fearful for you that there is more to the story than you know. There must be severe consequences to her actions. Do you think if she knew that you would have immediately divorced her if she ever cheated on you that this would have happened? Do you think even if she was caught that you would accept this anyway. I guarantee that there is more to this story and more to your wife's life than you know.


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## Almostrecovered

wow, busy wednesday- what a shame

burnt start implementing spy tech to verify anything your wife tells you


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## burnt

Yes, I confronted both of them that night and many doors were slammed, and yelling ensued. He went home, and I called her every name in the book...not my style normally but emotions totally took over any rationale. I'm not sure a polygraph is the answer but I will bring it up to her, and/or in counselling. I just hope this counselling can drag the truth out of her, regarding how long this has been going on. I WANT to believe it was just that one time, but I need to be certain. I really DO believe it didn't or never went beyond groping but like someone said, I feel disrespected and betrayed beyond belief. 

This type of scenario is most likely much easier to see past if you don't actually see it happening with your own eyes:scratchhead:


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## cb45

i agree with the eyes part.

u mentioned "drinks were had..." how drunk were they? do u know, really know? u see where i'm going with this dont ya?

not to make excuses for them nor give u a stronger "foothold" for denial purposes but, as u know booze is quite the sexual
uninhibitor when inbibed too much. maybe, just maybe he hasnt
been "doing" her on the side/sly. whats yer "gut" tell u? 
____are peculiar (hard to say) traits?

hopefully for yer sake, thats all it was....horny drunks etc.

yet at the same time, this drunkeness still cannot hide the fact
that she's finding someone elses (schlong) groping/kissing more
appealing than your own variety.

not good. not good i say.

keep us posted.

shalom.


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## bryanp

Again I must ask if the roles had been reversed how would she be acting? You tell her you want a polygraph because she no longer has any credibility left. If she balks you know she is probably hiding a lot more. It is up to her to regain your trust.


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## Initfortheduration

First off, you don't ASK her to take a polygraph, you demand it. Next, she has complete transparency and complete honesty. Either put up the boundaries or divorce her.


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## sadcalifornian

Initfortheduration said:


> First off, you don't ASK her to take a polygraph, you demand it. Next, she has complete transparency and complete honesty. Either put up the boundaries or divorce her.


I agree. When it comes to polygraph, you should demand it. Even if you never intended to go thru with it, just observing her response gives you glimse of valuable information into her mindset. If she vehimently denies it withough a good reason, you have a huge red flag. If she agrees reluctantly, it means there is TT going on. If she is willing, then it means she is either being truthful or calling it bluff or willing to try beating the test. 

Although poly is not bullet proof, it is quite effective to average Jon Doe's.


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## aug

Your wife showed no respect for you or your marriage to "make out" with you there. That's brazen. All this means is that she has reached a point where she doesnt really care deep inside about you.

No matter what she says now, she's in damage control mode.

Dont trust what she says.

Protect yourself financially now! For example, no joint bank accounts or credit cards.


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## Jellybeans

I'm not down with the polygraph. I think you should talk to her and tell her she gets one chance and one chance only to tell you everything. And that if she lies about anything or omits any part its all over, baby. Say this to her calmly but firmly. Have u ever noticed her and ur friend being flirty before? Has he tried to reach out to u since? Be checking her fone records and computer useage. Definitely get a VAR.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Atholk

Considering this was done essentially openly, you have to assume this has be going on for quite some time. The burden of proof is on her to prove nothing more happened that it did.

Check credit cards, phone records, check the bank accounts.


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## Jellybeans

Oh and tell her no counselling until she tells you everything and even then there's no guarantee. U need to convey that u are not afraid of losing her and u won't be disrespected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## burnt

bryanp said:


> Again I must ask if the roles had been reversed how would she be acting? You tell her you want a polygraph because she no longer has any credibility left. If she balks you know she is probably hiding a lot more. It is up to her to regain your trust.


I asked her that today and she said "see, I knew all along". In other words she has always suspected me as being unfaithful...I'm sure this is just a response for her to deal with her infidelity.

I WILL ask her to take a polygraph, just to gauge her response.
The responses I am getting here are somewhat worrisome, I should probably go into more detail on our backgrounds and personalities so people aren't so quick to judge and suggest drastic measures -- don't get me wrong, I appreciate the advice and suggestions, I think I just need to do a more in-depth write-up of the situation.

my heart tells me this is the first time they have done this, perhaps some harmless flirting (with words) did take place prior but again, my gut tells me this was the first time.....I probably sound like I am coming off as a pushover, I'm far from that --- I want to go through this process the right way before I make any decisions that can affect my children in a negative way.


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## Jellybeans

Have you ever cheated on her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans

How long have you been married?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## burnt

Jellybeans said:


> Have u ever noticed her and ur friend being flirty before? Has he tried to reach out to u since? Be checking her fone records and computer useage. Definitely get a VAR.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have noticed this once before, but thought nothing of it because we are such a close knit group of friends (closer than I had thought mind you)
He reached out to me first thing the next morning and wanted to come over immediately to 'clear the air' and talk through it. I told him I couldn't deal with him that day as my emotions were too high and just wasn't thinking very clear (no sleep).
He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).


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## Entropy3000

burnt said:


> Yes, I confronted both of them that night and many doors were slammed, and yelling ensued. He went home, and I called her every name in the book...not my style normally but emotions totally took over any rationale. I'm not sure a polygraph is the answer but I will bring it up to her, and/or in counselling. I just hope this counselling can drag the truth out of her, regarding how long this has been going on. I WANT to believe it was just that one time, but I need to be certain. I really DO believe it didn't or never went beyond groping but like someone said, I feel disrespected and betrayed beyond belief.
> 
> This type of scenario is most likely much easier to see past if you don't actually see it happening with your own eyes:scratchhead:


If confrontation and in general not being Alpha about your wife, is not your style I suggest you make it so. Your wife must know your style very well as she had no problems with humiliating you in front of others. Tell me you punched this guys lights out when you caught them.


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## burnt

never cheated on her.
married 12 years.


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## Entropy3000

burnt said:


> I have noticed this once before, but thought nothing of it because we are such a close knit group of friends (closer than I had thought mind you)
> He reached out to me first thing the next morning and wanted to come over immediately to 'clear the air' and talk through it. I told him I couldn't deal with him that day as my emotions were too high and just wasn't thinking very clear (no sleep).
> He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).


Ok, he must go NC with you guys. He is no longer a friend. He would have banged your wife on the front lawn if she was willing. Perhaps they already have. 

Sorry, but I don't buy the I do not remember. If you cannot hold your booze then do not drink. Drinking does not take away responsibility. I have never been so drunk that I would try to bang a friends wife on their front lawn. 

Soooo. The consequences of his actions are that he is now NC with you and your wife.

You will come back and say that you are a close knit group and cannot go NC with him. My answer is then that these are toxic friends. Ditch them. If you care about your marriage then really a big part of the issue is the life style and friends you are keeping. I enjoy drinking. I enjoy friends. But you have to have reasonable boundaries. 

There is way more to her actions than you know. She was way too comfortable in doing this. You have no reason to be so trusting.


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## crossbar

Problem is that when a cheaters mouth is moving, they're usually lying. 

Cheaters will only tell you the bare minimum to make it look like it's not as bad as it really is. And they will only admit to what you can prove. You saw them kissing and groping, then that's what she's going to fess up to..and that it only happened once because you can't prove otherwise.

What's disturbing here is that they felt comfortable enough to do this AT your home with YOU in the general vicinity. That's too comfortable in my book. What would have happened if you didn't put a stop too it?


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## TRy

burnt said:


> He reached out to me first thing the next morning and wanted to come over immediately to 'clear the air' and talk through it. I told him I couldn't deal with him that day as my emotions were too high and just wasn't thinking very clear (no sleep).
> He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).


You did not handle this well. You were too nice to him as if he were still your friend. He is not your friend.

You need to tell him that he is no longer a friend and that he is not welcome in your home. You need to tell him to stay away from your wife and not to contact your wife or you ever again. You need to tell your wife that she is to not to contact him ever again and that if he contacts her she is to immediately break off the contact and to tell you about it. There can be no fudging on this. This is a must.


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## Jellybeans

I would want to hear what he has to say. That way u can compare it to what ur wife tells u.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sadcalifornian

Do not trust anything OM(your friend) or W says at this point. Try verifying everything yourself. Unless this is full blown PA or EA, chances are that you may never find any shred of evidence via email or anything else. In a situation like this, if you really want to know the truth, demanding polygraph is the only method, regardless of how some other posters feel about it.


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## lordmayhem

crossbar said:


> Problem is that when a cheaters mouth is moving, they're usually lying.
> 
> Cheaters will only tell you the bare minimum to make it look like it's not as bad as it really is. And they will only admit to what you can prove. You saw them kissing and groping, then that's what she's going to fess up to..and that it only happened once because you can't prove otherwise.
> 
> What's disturbing here is that they felt comfortable enough to do this AT your home with YOU in the general vicinity. That's too comfortable in my book. What would have happened if you didn't put a stop too it?


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

When the WS has the audacity to cheat in the marital home with the BS present in the home, it shows familiarity. She's TT'ing big time and only admitting to what he saw. That's standard cheaters script - "If you have to admit it, ONLY admit to what they know, nothing more". Then say that was the ONLY time and nothing else has ever happened.

And now OM claims not to know what happened? Seriously? Please don't tell me you're buying any of that. Your sh!tbag friend is no friend of yours. Tell him he's no longer your friend and have no contact with you again whatsoever. Then expose to his wife/girlfriend if he has one. People need to know what kind of sh!tbag this man is who is willing to bang another man's wife in his own home. And yes, they were in the process of getting to the sex....you only just interrupted them.


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## turnera

Do you have all her passwords? Have you checked her FB and emails?


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## the guy

Stop listening to your heart and treat this as business and do the investingation to prevent getting ripped off. 
The game has changed and now the only person that should have had your back betrayed you.
So quietly do the research that will validate your W real commitment to you. If you were going to invest then you better make sure the investment is worth it. 
Heaven forbid that the person you most trusted is not telling you the truth about her commitment to you and your well being.

Things happen as you have found and it is in your best interest to privately look at what you are up against.

MC is good and working on the marriage is good, but when it comes to protecting your self...it is only you that will honestly look out for you.

3 days ago you thought you had someone that was looking out for your best interest. now that that has change ....at the very least invest in some protect for your self by doing the reasearch and investigations that will best serve you later on in life.

3 days ago what the both of you did was look out for each other. now there is a strong possibility that you may have to look out for your self ....for now.

Please , please , please look out for your marriage and work on it...but do it knowing that the blind trust you once had is gone and just like any investment do the research to make sure it is worth your money...in your case your emotions.....and money!!!

I hope the investment in your marriage pays out, but if it doesn't you will have enough foresite to know when the stock is going down and its time to just let it go with as minimal of lose.

Again look into this and comfirm that you are not * continuely* getting played. So get the keyloger,GPS, VAR, hell hire a PI if you got the dough, but bottom line is this crap must not continue, and if it is at least you will find out by doing the foot work to investigate.


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## F-102

And there is the possibility that what you have seen is just the proverbial "tip of the iceberg".


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## Lazarus

You need to go quiet and heal yourself initially. 

Check and verify your gut feelings by looking at the evidence, bills, credit cards, heavy texting etc.

Make no major decisions right now.

You've expressed your anger. You are hurting right now and the chances of hearing more than you can handle could put everything in a further tailspin. It's bad enough already!

Your "friend" is no longer you friend. Freeze that rat right out of your life now. Tell him you'll deal with him later. Let him stew on whatever that means.

As for wifey, she needs to be really worried about what you will do next.

These first days of exposure are important. Try to get a grip on your emotional turmoil as that has to be your priority and make sure the kids feel safe with you.

Your wife has a lot of explaining to do to you but you might not be in the right frame of mind to listen and respond appropriately.

She's blame shifting when she says "see I knew all along". This is not good. She isn't accepting responsibility, or showing remorse.

If she gets away this time you will be dealing with this again in the future. She has to learn the consequences of her infidelity.

The alchol weakens inhibitions but to be "at it" right under your nose is indicative that sexual tensions been going on for a while.

If your "friend" has got a wife or girlfriend , tell her too.


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## Gabriel

Lazarus said:


> If she gets away this time you will be dealing with this again in the future. She has to learn the consequences of her infidelity.
> 
> The alchol weakens inhibitions but to be "at it" right under your nose is indicative that sexual tensions been going on for a while.
> 
> If your "friend" has got a wife or girlfriend , tell her too.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

This is bang on. Is he married or with anyone? If so, you must tell them. This way it gets attacked on both sides. There has been sexual energy between them for much longer than just that night, even if it was never acted upon before. This friend needs to be removed from your lives forever. If you refuse to do this, then expect this to happen again, and again, and again.


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## Jellybeans

I forgot to ask if said friend has a partner/girlf/wife! If he does, you have GOT to tell her and stat.


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## Grayson

burnt said:


> I have noticed this once before, but thought nothing of it because we are such a close knit group of friends (closer than I had thought mind you)
> He reached out to me first thing the next morning and wanted to come over immediately to 'clear the air' and talk through it. I told him I couldn't deal with him that day as my emotions were too high and just wasn't thinking very clear (no sleep).
> He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).


Think about this for a moment.

*HE* called *YOU* to apologize for something he supposedly _doesn't remember_.

If he doesn't remember it, how would he know he needed to apologize for something?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Jellybeans said:


> I forgot to ask if said friend has a partner/girlf/wife! If he does, you have GOT to tell her and stat.


 Most definitely.

I hope you are now searching through her past year of texts, IMs, and FaceBook posts.


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## burnt

friend is married, but going through initial stages of divorce.


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## Almostrecovered

burnt said:


> friend is married, but going through initial stages of divorce.



well well well,

this may be an indication of it happening prior to what you saw- this is why it is now even more important you talk to his wife- she may know about it and be able to provide you info


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## Entropy3000

Lazarus said:


> You need to go quiet and heal yourself initially.
> 
> Check and verify your gut feelings by looking at the evidence, bills, credit cards, heavy texting etc.
> 
> Make no major decisions right now.
> 
> You've expressed your anger. You are hurting right now and the chances of hearing more than you can handle could put everything in a further tailspin. It's bad enough already!
> 
> Your "friend" is no longer you friend. Freeze that rat right out of your life now. Tell him you'll deal with him later. Let him stew on whatever that means.
> 
> As for wifey, she needs to be really worried about what you will do next.
> 
> These first days of exposure are important. Try to get a grip on your emotional turmoil as that has to be your priority and make sure the kids feel safe with you.
> 
> Your wife has a lot of explaining to do to you but you might not be in the right frame of mind to listen and respond appropriately.
> 
> She's blame shifting when she says "see I knew all along". This is not good. She isn't accepting responsibility, or showing remorse.
> 
> If she gets away this time you will be dealing with this again in the future. She has to learn the consequences of her infidelity.
> 
> The alchol weakens inhibitions but to be "at it" right under your nose is indicative that sexual tensions been going on for a while.
> 
> If your "friend" has got a wife or girlfriend , tell her too.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Alcohol lessons inhibitions. It does not create bad behavior. It is risky with folks who have poor boundaries to begin with. But they acted on what their feelings were sober. You did not just catch the one time this has happened.


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## lordmayhem

Almostrecovered said:


> well well well,
> 
> this may be an indication of it happening prior to what you saw- this is why it is now even more important you talk to his wife- she may know about it and be able to provide you info


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

It makes more and more sense.


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## Almostrecovered

if anything the alcohol made them more brazen to do this in front of you instead of hiding it better


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## turnera

burnt said:


> friend is married, but going through initial stages of divorce.


Whaddya wanna bet they've been cheating for months, and his divorce is an outshoot of their cheating?

Call his wife today!


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## lordmayhem

burnt said:


> The responses I am getting here are somewhat worrisome, I should probably go into more detail on our backgrounds and personalities so people aren't so quick to judge and suggest drastic measures -- don't get me wrong, I appreciate the advice and suggestions, I think I just need to do a more in-depth write-up of the situation.


Let me take a wild guess. 

She's so very attractive and friendly to people, and she's a great mom and wife. You've been so caught up in your work, busting your butt to earn a good living for your family that you feel you've neglected her. So you feel that you haven't been as good a husband as you should have. To top it off, she suffers from bouts of depression (or bi polar disorder or some other mental illness), so this thing was not her fault at all.

Am I close?


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## turnera

And she's a SAHM.

And you help with the housework cos she's just too busy all day.


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## Entropy3000

lordmayhem said:


> Let me take a wild guess.
> 
> She's so very attractive and friendly to people, and she's a great mom and wife. You've been so caught up in your work, busting your butt to earn a good living for your family that you feel you've neglected her. So you feel that you haven't been as good a husband as you should have. To top it off, she suffers from bouts of depression (or bi polar disorder or some other mental illness), so this thing was not her fault at all.
> 
> Am I close?


:smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup:

Perfect.


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## turnera

burnt, the responses may be worrisome to you, as you are new to cheating. Around here, we deal with it on a daily basis. We've been offering advice to betrayed husbands for years and years. And the stories are almost always the same. Waywards follow a script. We could give you sentences and almost guarantee they have come out of your wife or him.

And nearly every single betrayed husband who comes here says that HIS situation is different.

Until he reallizes it isn't.

That's not a dis on you; it's reality.


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## burnt

lordmayhem said:


> Let me take a wild guess.
> 
> She's so very attractive and friendly to people, and she's a great mom and wife. You've been so caught up in your work, busting your butt to earn a good living for your family that you feel you've neglected her. So you feel that you haven't been as good a husband as you should have. To top it off, she suffers from bouts of depression (or bi polar disorder or some other mental illness), so this thing was not her fault at all.
> 
> Am I close?


not even close..

the part I left out is that this happened at our vacation home, the so called friend also has a vacation home 2 doors down from us and we only see him when we are there, with the whole family so there is little to no time for anything to happen without me around. Yes, things could happen outside of this but we're both home bodies and basically only go out together, or with friends.


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## Dadof3

burnt: appreciating your information, what part of what lordmayhem said isn't true? you are seriously around your wife 24 x 7 x 365? 

i would agree with what everyone else said. the fact she was paying extra attention to this person before u went to bed says alot. if this didn't happen prior, you wife has a cheatin' heart.

grow a pair, listen to what these folks are trying to tell you. more than 95% of the situations here run a distinct pattern. please don't assume your wife is in the exceptional 5%. you will find that out later, if it is truly the case.

or, you can just ignore what everyone is saying, and be coming back in several months, or even several years saying "she's gone an dun it again!" or "she's really dun what ya'll said she was. I wus a fool!"


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## ArmyofJuan

Key-logger and VAR if nobody mentioned it yet. Odds are she will be talking to her friends or the OM about this and may spill more info.


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## turnera

burnt said:


> not even close..
> 
> the part I left out is that this happened at our vacation home, the so called friend also has a vacation home 2 doors down from us and we only see him when we are there, with the whole family so there is little to no time for anything to happen without me around. Yes, things could happen outside of this but we're both home bodies and basically only go out together, or with friends.


So...she's NOT attractive and friendly? She's NOT a great mom and wife?

As for neglecting her, do you even know? Do you have routine conversations about your marriage? Do you ask her what if anything she's been missing or wanting? If she's living the life she expected/wanted? If she feels tied down to the kids some times? 

You seem to be thinking that she's 100% happy with you and she simply got drunk, saw a guy she knew, and wanted to kiss someone and there he was.

That's a dangerous assumption.


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## turnera

burnt, you're getting defensive with us and I just want you to know that this is normal. Typically, when a betrayed husband comes here, it's with the certainty that this was just an aberration, that he KNOWS his wife and she would never willingly do such a thing, and there must be a valid explanation. For some reason, the men have a harder time accepting that the wife could cheat.

So just know that we're not trying to beat you down; you don't have to get defensive. We're trying to show you what is the usual backstory, in at least 80% - 90% of the cases. So that you can protect yourself and not waste VALUABLE time (while she hides the evidence) defending her and denouncing us. Just listen, consider snooping to see if we are off base and, if you find nothing else, chalk it up to a random drunk night and move on. But if you DO find something (phone, computer, etc.), then we can help you nip this in the bud so you can still save your marriage.


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## burnt

whoa whoa whoa, this is going from helpful to laughable.

Looking at many a post count here, I understand there have been many similar circumstances that end up with the same results. I'm not saying my situation won't end up as some of you have predicted but some of the assumptions and allegations are down right hilarious, ...a couple are spot on.

Trust me, I have the resources, and I will have all the information I need on what has/has not happened.


----------



## crossbar

burnt said:


> whoa whoa whoa, this is going from helpful to laughable.
> 
> Looking at many a post count here, I understand there have been many similar circumstances that end up with the same results. I'm not saying my situation won't end up as some of you have predicted but some of the assumptions and allegations are down right hilarious, ...a couple are spot on.
> 
> Trust me, I have the resources, and I will have all the information I need on what has/has not happened.


Not exactly laughable. Problem is we've seen too many times where people come on here and swear that their spouses would NEVER cheat on them and they're only caught up with a EA. Only to come back and say, "I can't believe he/she cheated on me!" 

We're just trying to look out for your best interests. That's all. So, what resources do you have? What do you plan to do? How is your wife behaving?


----------



## Entropy3000

burnt said:


> not even close..
> 
> the part I left out is that this happened at our vacation home, the so called friend also has a vacation home 2 doors down from us and we only see him when we are there, with the whole family so there is little to no time for anything to happen without me around. Yes, things could happen outside of this but we're both home bodies and basically only go out together, or with friends.


So this guy is kinda random and yet she felt free to do this. OMG. So I would be very concerned about her boundaries with other men in general. There seems to be none.

So exactly what is her life style? She works? Does she go out without you drinking? Does she have any other close male friends?


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

What people are trying to help you understand burnt is that you have found a malignancy in your marriage. 

It is exactly that. This is NOT a fever, virus, or rash which will clear up. This is a cancer. 

The fact that this happened and the manner in which it took place are a CLEAR diagnosis of a "life threatening" marital illness. That's not being dramatic, It's exactly what I say. This is "life" threatening. If not treated aggressively, and irradicated beyond any shadow of any doubt, life as you know it now will end. 

That fact that you may (or may not?) have caught this quickly may give your marraige a chance at full recovery. Even then, you need to examine your life style and what may have caused this. You'll want to make changes in your marital life and watch it's health more closely You have to insure that this 'cancer' doesnt come back or spread. 

It really is that serious.


----------



## Jellybeans

turnera said:


> And nearly every single betrayed husband who comes here says that HIS situation is different.
> 
> Until he reallizes it isn't.


Let me give it a go:

_"Hi. I've been reading this site for awhile and just decided to join to share my story since you all sound like you have some good advice. My story is unique so bear with me. And I apologize for the length of my post..."_

And then the following is some variation of...

_"My wife/husband and I have been married for X years. Things were always great and (fill in the blank). I've never had any reason not to trust her/him. So you can imagine my shock when I discovered she/he was cheating on me. This is so out of character for her/him! I confronted about it and she/he said this is the first and only time this has happened. I believe her/him because I am always around and they don't have the time to cheat on me. I don't want to push her/him away further by doing the wrong thing or bringing this up more than necessary. What do I do now?" _

Ok, back to our regular programming...


----------



## Saffron

I agree with posters that there is probably more to the story. When cheaters are first discovered, they lie. I'm sure there is a small percentage that spill the whole truth right away, but her story does not sound like the whole truth.

On d-day, after the OWH revealed to me our spouses affair, my H still tried to downplay the severity. "It wasn't as sordid as it sounds" he said. At that point I thought it was only an EA, but then he finally confessed to physical portion. Turns out getting a hotel room to screw around for several hours is pretty sordid. 

Prior to d-day, I never in a million years would've thought my husband capable of cheating. He never thought he'd be "that guy" either. He said when he was busted, his first instinct was self-preservation. He didn't want to loose me, so at first he said everything to try and diminish the affair. He lied through his teeth while looking me in the eye, whatever it took to downplay. It wasn't until he thought I had solid proof did he confess. 

So keep digging. Odds are there is more that you don't know about. Your wife was comfortable enough to make out with "your friend" with you sleeping nearby, this is strong familiarity. Usually first time cheaters take extra precausion to make sure they don't get caught. Working out of town, hotel room, different city, during work hours, while spouse is gone.... these are more typical "first time" scenarios. This is usually how the PA portion of the affair gets started, the cheater can compartmentalize and keep the affair separate from "real life". When it's been going on for a while, cheaters get sloppy. They're bold enough to think they won't get caught, because they haven't in the past.

It seems your wife and the OM are saying it was an impulsive act, a one time mistake. If that is the case, and not sloppy long term affair arrogance, they had very strong feelings and desire for each other. Stong enough to let it overcome their common sense about the time and situation. Strong enough to overcome moral and ethical boundaries they valued. I don't care how drunk you are, you don't make out with someone else when you are in a committed relationship. If you do, you're only using the alcohol as an excuse to do what you really want.

Either scenario is not good. If it was impulsive, why did she have such strong feelings for him? Has she been talking to him "helping" him get through his divorce? Do they discuss their marital problems together? These are HUGE red flags if that's the case. Comisserating over their "bad" marriages is a way many affairs get started. Problem is, the marriages aren't usually bad, just typical marital strife or stagnant.

Do your research. Check cell records, her sent emails, put on a key logger. If she's remorseful, she will do anything and everything to build back trust. There will be no defensiveness, no blameshifting, no gaslighting. If you have any of these responses to the situation.... she's hiding something.

Getting over any kind of betrayal is hard. We just want to make sure that if you put in the time to move forward, that it is a true recovery. So many have been burned by the fact their cheating spouse was in false recovery, which typically turns out to mean their spouse never ended the affair. It just went underground.

Good luck and I hope you don't feel like any of this is a slam on you. We're just trying to make sure that you, the betrayed spouse, have your eyes wide open. Be prepared for the worse case scenario, so you can be relieved if it's not. If you're prepared for the best case scenario, you'll be doubly devastated if it's not.


----------



## Jellybeans

Ok, re-reading your original post last night this part stuck out at me (but I am too lazy to type on my phone sometimes because 1. it's annoying and 2. I make too many typos):



burnt said:


> I just wanted to go to bed, but she, nor my friend did so they stayed up. Being a trusty person by nature, I went to bed....*but then couldn't help but think something was going on, *I looked outside and saw both of them kissing/groping each other.


Please tell us WHY you "couldn't help but think something was going on."

Explain. 



burnt said:


> friend is married, but going through initial stages of divorce.


AND we have a winner, guys! You have to wonder WHY the divorce is going on now. Could it in any way be related to an affair he was having wtih your wife???

Even if they are divorcing, this woman has a right to know about her husband and your wife. You need to expose this to her. She may be able to fill in a lot of blanks for you. And I now some folks are telling you NOT to confront the 
a-hole but I would. I would let him come over or meet in a public place so he can start talking. Give him enough rope to hang himself. He will, more than likely, tell you a LOT of stuff you had no idea about. All you have to do is say "Hey I was really upset the other day when I found you and my wife together and I know you wanted to talk but I wasn't ready yet. Let's meet to talk." When you do, like I said, give him enough rope... Tell him "Ok so start from the beginning. Tell me when all this started happening between you guys. I have spoken to my wife already so I want to hear from you." 

Be calm when you do this. Let him walk into his own grave. 



How long have you known him for?


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh and this is what you say to his wife:

_Here's the thing about exposure: *NEVER GIVE YOUR SPOUSE OR THE OTHER WOMAN/MAN WARNING THAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO EXPOSE. JUST DO IT!!!* 

Why?

Because that will give her and the OM time to get their stories straight/corroborate timelines and make YOU out to be the crazy/psycho husband who has trust issues and is going through a hard time in his marriage, therefore he suspects his wife is cheating on him and wants to lash out at everyone. They WILL do this if you keep giving them warnings. Oh and you bet she's told him already "My husband knows...if someone asks we can just say we're friends" and have already started planning and concocting their stupid excuses and lame cover up stories.

Find out who his wife is and exposes immediately:

"OM's Wife,

Your husband, Name, has been having an affair with my Wife's Name since on or about Month/Year. I discovered the affair by way of (fill in the blank). (Copy/paste or verbalize any proof you have). Their affair has been detrimental to my marriage. My wife told me the affair ended however I have proof contradicts that--they are still having an affair and in contact. I am telling you this because you deserve to know the truth. If you were already aware of the affair, then I am sure that this comes as no surprise to you, but if not, I am sorry to have to be the one to inform you. If you want to talk further or need further proof, you may contact me (at....fill in the blank).

Your Name"

THIS IS HOW YOU DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

F them! And no, your wife doesn't sound like he wants to work it out with you if she's still lying to you. So expose her for the liar she is without telling her or OM. And in the interim, tell her "I am aware you are lying to me and still in contact with the OM. You need to leave today because I refuse to live in an open marriage. I refuse to be treated so callously and be lied to and I will not tolerate this nonsense and your betrayals anymore. Get the f*ck out, homes!"

Remove yourself as an option for her. She will not feel any consequences as long as you're covering up the affair and allowing him to stay in the house/carry on as a married man with all the benefits of a committed relationship. She is not committed to your marriage, therefore you do not need to reward her with the same generosity and pat her on the back and feel fearful when she is the one making these d!ck moves. Tell her where to go. _

Oh and a word of advice: NO marriage counselling as long as she's having an affair. MC does nothing as long as one partner is still lying/having an affair.


----------



## F-102

Grayson said:


> Think about this for a moment.
> 
> *HE* called *YOU* to apologize for something he supposedly _doesn't remember_.
> 
> If he doesn't remember it, how would he know he needed to apologize for something?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'll bet anything that wifey told him to call and EXACTLY what to say.


----------



## Gabriel

Burnt is holding a lot of things very close to the vest here. Not sure why. We are here to help. We really don't have a lot of info. Burnt is saying we are all speculating. That's because he's only selectively answered a few of the questions that have been asked, and not expanded on anything. Burnt, if you want real help here, you have to give us more, in truth form, just facts, not jaded by what you feel or what you think we are going to say about you. That's why this is an anonymous forum. Nobody's holding you accountable for anything. If we had more details, maybe you would like the advice better.

Dude, trust me on something. I came on here back in May just like you when I saw an email from my W to her OM friend. I never thought certain things were happening. Not all the advice here applied to my situation either, but enough of it really did.


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> Burnt is holding a lot of things very close to the vest here. Not sure why. We are here to help. We really don't have a lot of info. Burnt is saying we are all speculating. That's because he's only selectively answered a few of the questions that have been asked, and not expanded on anything. Burnt, if you want real help here, you have to give us more, in truth form, just facts, not jaded by what you feel or what you think we are going to say about you. That's why this is an anonymous forum. Nobody's holding you accountable for anything. If we had more details, maybe you would like the advice better.
> 
> Dude, trust me on something. I came on here back in May just like you when I saw an email from my W to her OM friend. I never thought certain things were happening. Not all the advice here applied to my situation either, but enough of it really did.


Yes, we are left to do a lot of speculating as there is not a whole lot of information. From what is given there is a serious issue to deal with however.


----------



## Dadof3

Could be a troll maybe?


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

burnt said:


> I have noticed this once before, but thought nothing of it because we are such a close knit group of friends (closer than I had thought mind you)
> He reached out to me first thing the next morning and wanted to come over immediately to 'clear the air' and talk through it. I told him I couldn't deal with him that day as my emotions were too high and just wasn't thinking very clear (no sleep).
> He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).



Doesn't matter. This man should never be allowed into your circle again. There has to be NO-Contact ever. The "I was drunk" excuse only works when your in high school and even then it's shaky at best.

She has to show real remorse before you make a move forward. Since this is so fresh, I suggest you just take in all in...and chill. Take care of yourself. Take it one day at a time.

I realize that I am late to the party...this forum gets a lot of attention...great people here with great advice...so if I am repeating whats already been said I apologize.


----------



## Jonesey

Dadof3 said:


> Could be a troll maybe?


Could be , but i dont think so.


People Leave the guy alone ,sadly he will be back...
And regreting for not listening .


----------



## TRy

Jonesey said:


> People Leave the guy alone ,sadly he will be back...
> And regreting for not listening .


For him to listen he would need to acknowledge that the world as he has know it is over. That is hard to do, so he wants to believe his wife and let her rug sweep. He sounds like a decent guy. He has done nothing wrong so it would be unfair for it to be true. Unfortunately life is sometimes not fair.

burnt, I wish and hope that we are not right. I really do. Be well and good luck to you.


----------



## Entropy3000

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> Doesn't matter. This man should never be allowed into your circle again. There has to be NO-Contact ever. The "I was drunk" excuse only works when your in high school and even then it's shaky at best.
> 
> She has to show real remorse before you make a move forward. Since this is so fresh, I suggest you just take in all in...and chill. Take care of yourself. Take it one day at a time.
> 
> I realize that I am late to the party...this forum gets a lot of attention...great people here with great advice...so if I am repeating whats already been said I apologize.


Close knit group .... then goes on to say that this is a guy who has a vacation home a few doors down. That infers the opposite of close knit. So which is it with this guy? Close knit or vacation home stranger?


----------



## Jellybeans

Dadof3 said:


> Could be a troll maybe?





Jonesey said:


> Could be , but i dont think so.


I'm not getting a "troll" vibe either.



Jonesey said:


> People Leave the guy alone ,*sadly he will be back...*


----------



## Jonesey

*I observed my wife being extra attentive to one of my friends*
_And then this_
*I looked outside and saw both of them kissing/groping each other*
_And then this_

*my heart tells me this is the first time they have done this, perhaps some harmless flirting (with words) did take place prior but again, my gut tells me this was the first time*. Really?

_And then this
_
*friend is married, but going through initial stages of divorce.*

Hmm thats odd.

_And finally this
_
*I asked her that today and she said "see, I knew all along". In other words she has always suspected me as being unfaithful.Strange why would she say that..*

you still don't see a pattern here?? Do you?

Oh almost forgot, this is priceless

*He called the next morning and apologized, said nothing was meant by it, he didn't remember (there was alot of alcohol consumed that night).*


----------



## Jonesey

TRy said:


> For him to listen he would need to acknowledge that the world as he has know it is over. That is hard to do, so he wants to believe his wife and let her rug sweep. He sounds like a decent guy. He has done nothing wrong so it would be unfair for it to be true. Unfortunately life is sometimes not fair.
> 
> burnt, I wish and hope that we are not right. I really do. Be well and good luck to you.


Look so do i. I truly hope that for his sake that we all 
are wrong.BUt sadly we are most are not


----------



## Jellybeans

Jonesey said:


> Look so do i. I truly hope that for his sake that we all
> are wrong.*BUt sadly we are most are not*


Its like we have ESP or something...


----------



## Entropy3000

E S P

Extramarital Spousal Perception


----------



## Jellybeans

Good one!

Or 

Extramarital Spousal Prediction


----------



## Jonesey

Jellybeans said:


> Good one!
> 
> Or
> 
> Extramarital Spousal Prediction


----------



## F-102

Extramarital Scumbag Pummeling.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Yeah whatever. If you know and it's relevant to your interests to let her know you know, let her know. It's not complicated. After all what's she going to do? Run out and fall on some guy's ****? Already did that...


----------



## jnj express

Hey burnt---you do not need anything more than what you saw, and suspect---the flirting---the waiting till you went to bed, then her making out, and you not confronted, they very well may have gone all the way

Your so called neighbor is a real POS, he can't keep his own wife, so now he wants yours

Your problem was/is---alcohol or not---your wife knew what she was doing every step of the way---and she did it right in front of you, and with her own kids in the house---(wasn't in front of you, but she knew you were upstairs), and she still cheated----where did she think this was all gonna end

How is she dealing---is there remorse, contriteness---what does she say as to WHY she was so willing to wreck the mge????


----------



## Geoffrey Marsh

I think Burnt has left the building...


----------



## burnt

whoa, lot's of replies since yesterday.
couple of updates, wife went to counselor and they basically told her she did it on purpose (subconsciously), and wanted me to find out, so she would get the added attention from me that she was craving. Not sure what to think of that, because she never complained or said anything was lacking. The other item she kept close to her is that when she was very young, she was heavier and not attractive and always thought she was "ugly & fat" since her teens...even though she is quite the opposite now, she's never been able to shake that self consciousness. Counselor told her when she heard someone say she was "attractive and very desirable" this summer, she needed to hear that from more than just me, and she responded to it last weekend. She is going to continue with counselling until that part of her insecurity is figured out, then we'll go together for counselling about the state of our relationship.

We go for a walk now every day after work so we can talk through this and ask questions, I keep asking about further incidents and she is continuing to say no, I mentioned if she would be willing to take a polygraph and there was zero hesitation, followed by a enthusiastic yes...that was good to hear.

there are many questions on here that I haven't answered, right now I don't have time to go through them all...maybe on the weekend. Can someone summarize all the questions and put them on one post???...kidding.

that's it for now...


----------



## sadcalifornian

So, the official diagnosis is it was due to your W's insecurity, is it? As plausible as it is, I still think it's a lame excuse. Don't let her off the hook so easily. Not all insecure women engage in such act as your W did. 

And, the part about her wanting to get found out... Do you really buy this? Well, she's your W, and you should know her better.

I wonder what your friend, OM's excuse is. Is he insecure too? It seems as long as you provide a plausible reason, anything can be excused and explained away. Just not right.


----------



## TRy

burnt said:


> whoa, lot's of replies since yesterday.
> couple of updates, wife went to counselor and they basically told her she did it on purpose (subconsciously), and wanted me to find out, so she would get the added attention from me that she was craving. Not sure what to think of that, because she never complained or said anything was lacking. The other item she kept close to her is that when she was very young, she was heavier and not attractive and always thought she was "ugly & fat" since her teens...even though she is quite the opposite now, she's never been able to shake that self consciousness. Counselor told her when she heard someone say she was "attractive and very desirable" this summer, she needed to hear that from more than just me, and she responded to it last weekend. She is going to continue with counselling until that part of her insecurity is figured out, then we'll go together for counselling about the state of our relationship.


Did you hear all of the above from the counselor yourself or is this only what the wife told you the counselor said? 

I suspect that you did not hear it directly from the counselor. Counselors do not talk that way. Your wife is spinning what the counselor said into what you want to hear to make everything all better.

According to this, it is not your wife's fault really. The blame shifting has now begun. You want this to go away so badly that you now will let her off the hook without real consequences and without knowing the full story. 

It is easy to lie to someone that wants to believe. To someone that needs to believe for their their world to go back to the way it was. Although convenient for the here and now, it is not a good thing in the long run.


----------



## burnt

not at all, assumptions like this are what causes forums topics to get derailed. 

when this came out in the diagnosis, this was new to me and was pulled out from her from the counselor. this issue is her problem, and her problem alone and needs to be dealt with first as a separate matter.

when the whole story, diagnosis, therapy or whatever else is done, I can decide what is fact vs fiction.


----------



## Chaparral

This sounds like good news and hope everything works out, praying for it too. 

Did therapist relay this info to you or was it all from your wife and her interpretation.

From the way you said they were behaving toward each other all evening it all sounded like a set up deal. Ran into the same situation many years ago with a serious girlfriend. Later she said we should date other people. LOL


----------



## Hoosier

Burnt, love you man, and sorry for your pain, but you are in serious denial here. I suggest you go for your own counseling post haste, you need to find out why you allow yourself to be a doormat for your wife. Seriously, go find a counselor like now!


----------



## burnt

ok, last post for today...must get some work done.

-nothing is being spun
-wife has admitted this is her fault, 100%
-the self conscious issue is a separate matter, contributing, not a reason or a excuse for her actions.
-she is nowhere near being off the hook, in fact quite the opposite.
-this will take time to figure out.


----------



## Entropy3000

Cool, but interesting you have not stated that you personally heard this from the counselor.


----------



## bryanp

I think this is great news that she was enthusiastically willing to take a polygraph. Because of this reaction I believe it was indeed a one time event.


----------



## Almostrecovered

bryanp said:


> I think this is great news that she was enthusiastically willing to take a polygraph. Because of this reaction I believe it was indeed a one time event.



I tend to agree, however, I do think that doing some investigation and verifying is certainly a very good idea


----------



## crossbar

Forget what the therapist told her. Did she tell you why SHE did it?


----------



## Gabriel

Burnt, it sounds like you are doing the right things so far. If I am you I would do the following (and I'm sure most will agree).

1) you have to tell the OMs wife. He is still married - until they are totally divorced she needs to know, especially if they are considering reconciliation, which many do

2) Don't tell her that you will drop this, ever. Not saying you need to badger her all the time, but avoid telling her that once she gets this all out with the counselor that you can go back to your normal lives. That would be rug sweeping.

3) Make sure you go to counseling with her. Saying this is "her issue" may be true in the sense that she did this, but it now very greatly affects you, and you need to be a part of the solution, or it will just happen again.

4) Monitor her. Email/facebook/texts/phone records. Do this for a long time, months, if not years. Since she agreed to the polygraph, maybe you take her up on it (I'm not big on polygraphs), but that only addresses the past, not the future.

5) You both need to send the OM a joint letter/email/whatever saying that he should never contact either of you again, in any forum or medium. Tell him firmly that he is no longer either of your friends, and is no longer welcome in your lives. Write it when you are calm. Then you both sign it, and send. From there, ignore all his attempts to communicate with you. No responses at all.


----------



## Saffron

Insecurity does horrible things to a person's moral compass and pysche. My H's insecurity was a huge culprit in his two affairs. He wasn't a big hit with the ladies in his younger years, so he ended up being a sucker for the two times during our marriage attractive women expressed interest. Fed his ego and he slipped down that slippery slope. He fully admits, if he had been hit on more often by attractive woman, the flattery alone would've been enough to get him to respond in some way. Maybe not more full blown affairs, but maybe a random make out session like your wife.

I'm sure you'll both make sure your wife deals with her insecurity issue. It's taken us 15 years to realize my husband had this issue and we're finally dealing with it two affairs later. If he hadn't been busted with the most recent affair, he agrees, he would've cheated again. I hope it was the first time your wife gave in to the ego boost, it's a strong possibility, but do your research. Better to tackle this issue now than a decade down the road, good luck!

Side note, our MC recommends doing IC together in MC. She said it seems to "stick" more if you're both present for accountability. So in our sessions, we both get equal time discussing personal issues. It's not so much marriage counseling as a joint IC session. Our MC's goal is not really to "save our marriage", but to make us better people which may or may not result in a better marriage. Works for us, but might not work for you . . . just a suggestion!


----------



## Entropy3000

Gabriel said:


> Burnt, it sounds like you are doing the right things so far. If I am you I would do the following (and I'm sure most will agree).
> 
> 1) you have to tell the OMs wife. He is still married - until they are totally divorced she needs to know, especially if they are considering reconciliation, which many do
> 
> 2) Don't tell her that you will drop this, ever. Not saying you need to badger her all the time, but avoid telling her that once she gets this all out with the counselor that you can go back to your normal lives. That would be rug sweeping.
> 
> 3) Make sure you go to counseling with her. Saying this is "her issue" may be true in the sense that she did this, but it now very greatly affects you, and you need to be a part of the solution, or it will just happen again.
> 
> 4) Monitor her. Email/facebook/texts/phone records. Do this for a long time, months, if not years. Since she agreed to the polygraph, maybe you take her up on it (I'm not big on polygraphs), but that only addresses the past, not the future.
> 
> 5) You both need to send the OM a joint letter/email/whatever saying that he should never contact either of you again, in any forum or medium. Tell him firmly that he is no longer either of your friends, and is no longer welcome in your lives. Write it when you are calm. Then you both sign it, and send. From there, ignore all his attempts to communicate with you. No responses at all.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## Entropy3000

Insecurities may be a motivator for folks. That said, it is acting on those that is the problem. Any cheater can say that they were looking for validation from someone other than thier spouse. That is not an excuse for sure. It may or may not be factual. Ooops. I was looking for validation because I was insecure. My bad.

But it is what it is. So one should work in parallel on the relationship. No rug sweeping and continued investogstion and vigilence.


----------



## jnj express

OK so she had a need, and wanted a quick fix---so she let another man, put his tongue in her mouth, and his hands all over her, while you watched, and the kids were inside

What does she use for brains----she couldn't go to you and say---hey I need more from you???

In stead because of what you saw---your trust is gone, your peace of mind is gone, and your carefree life is over---I don't care how you 2 work it out---what you saw ain't goin away, any time soon

Once again, what is she doing, to try, and make this right, not that she ever will be able to do so

What does she say, when confronted of the fact that she knew she was ripping apart the lives, of her kids, and you her H.


----------



## F-102

Agreed to a polygraph? And if she fails it, she can always say: "Well, you forced me to do it against my will and I was so humiliated, of course I was nervous..."


----------



## Jellybeans

I don't buy the whol e"Oh she was fat before so now she wants validation." Please. That is such a crock of sh!t answer/response to her cheating.

She cheated on you for one reason alone: BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO.

And until she owns that, I wouldn't let any of her little "Oh well I'm insecure/I was intoxicated/I can't remember/blahblahblah" excuses fly. 

You said your wife and your friend were being flirtatious. That is not good. Think back on their history. Were they ever flirty before this night? The fact they could do this AT YOUR HOME shows absolutely ZERO Respect for you. Sorry I sound so angry today. LOL.


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## burnt

quick poll here : what does everyone here do for a living ? I'm curious and I'll tell you why after you answer the question.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

Jellybeans said:


> I don't buy the whol e"Oh she was fat before so now she wants validation." Please. That is such a crock of sh!t answer/response to her cheating.
> 
> She cheated on you for one reason alone: BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO.
> 
> And until she owns that, I wouldn't let any of her little "Oh well I'm insecure/I was intoxicated/I can't remember/blahblahblah" excuses fly.
> 
> You said your wife and your friend were being flirtatious. That is not good. Think back on their history. Were they ever flirty before this night? The fact they could do this AT YOUR HOME shows absolutely ZERO Respect for you. Sorry I sound so angry today. LOL.



Beans is right on the money here...however encouraging her response to the poly or her wanting to go to counseling sounds..I am only seeing blame shifting.

Please...you can't swing a dead cat without hitting someone that was a little chubby as a kid and has some insecurities. These are not reasons..they are excuses for horrible, disrespectful behavior.

Put yourself on high alert..I suspect much more to unfold from this.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

burnt said:


> quick poll here : what does everyone here do for a living ? I'm curious and I'll tell you why after you answer the question.


I do this..exactly what I am doing now. I try and help victims that are going through stuff like this.


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## sadcalifornian

burnt said:


> quick poll here : what does everyone here do for a living ? I'm curious and I'll tell you why after you answer the question.


:rofl:


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## burnt

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> I do this..exactly what I am doing now. I try and help victims that are going through stuff like this.


really, this is your day job?


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## Almostrecovered

Jellybeans said:


> I don't buy the whol e"Oh she was fat before so now she wants validation." Please. That is such a crock of sh!t answer/response to her cheating.
> 
> She cheated on you for one reason alone: BECAUSE SHE WANTED TO.
> 
> And until she owns that, I wouldn't let any of her little "Oh well I'm insecure/I was intoxicated/I can't remember/blahblahblah" excuses fly.
> 
> You said your wife and your friend were being flirtatious. That is not good. Think back on their history. Were they ever flirty before this night? The fact they could do this AT YOUR HOME shows absolutely ZERO Respect for you. Sorry I sound so angry today. LOL.


I think you're half right here- while I completely recognize that in no way shape or form that she should be using this as an excuse, it is still very important to communicate her reasoning and thought process


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## Entropy3000

I am an engineer. Work a lot from home these days. I am working pretty much a double shift right now and swing my chair around to my personal system while I am waiting for something to boot up or to compile. If I was not working so many hours I would not be posting so much. It has to do with the project I am on.

I liken much of what I see to the byzantine generals problem.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

burnt said:


> really, this is your day job?


Yup...I'm not a counselor if that's what you thinking. No office or anything like that. I blog, post here and help individuals either over the phone or through email.


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## sadcalifornian

I own a transportation company. It pretty runs itself without my much supervision. Actually, it seems to do better when I am not there bothering them.


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## Almostrecovered

sadcalifornian said:


> I own a transportation company. It pretty runs itself



Im sorry but this made me laugh


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## Almostrecovered

I am the CEO of a multi-million dollar international corporation


(no lie, but most people call me a small business owner)


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## Gabriel

Employee benefit consultant mostly servicing small-business owners....hey Almost, need any help?


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## Dadof3

IT Professional - Project Management (PMP), Quality Assurance, Architecture, Systems Analysis & Design


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## Jellybeans

OH and nowhere did I see in your MC post that you told her to tell you the WHOLE TRUTH.


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## Jonesey

i used to be CEO for Lehman brother´s


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Id like to be helpful here. But, Im not sure what profession I can state that will help you with the presumption your trying to form.

A. Im in prison. Its not important why. We have internet access. This is one of the only forums we can access.

B. Im an unemployed graphic designer. I do freelance artwork and some manual labor to make ends meet.

C. Im in "C" level healthcare. I do high level stategy and aquisitions for large healthcare systems.

D. Im an author. You might recognize my name if I shared it.

Pick one, form your opinion/presumption, run with it.

ps. one of those is true.


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## Jellybeans

I knew you were in prison, Pit! 

That avatar is just you busting out of prison to be free and finally feeling the rain on your skin after a long time!


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## Pit-of-my-stomach

Jellybeans said:


> I knew you were in prison, Pit!


Yeah, my W was actually named Fred. He was my b*tch but he wandered down to cellblock 6... cheating hussy broke my heart.


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## Jonesey

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> Yeah, my W was actually named Fred. He was my b*tch but he wandered down to cellblock 6... cheating hussy broke my heart.


:lol:


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## Jellybeans

Dammit, Fred! LOL


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## Saffron

Hmmmm, not sure how knowing our professions will help. Wondering if you think we're all unemployed trash, should I be insulted?

I was a medical professional until I quit to stay home with my children. My husband is a corporate professional and I would rather not say his actual title. I always worry about the OW or OWH reading and recognizing my situation. Let's just he's in a high level position and we don't live in a van down by the river.


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## Jellybeans

Saffron said:


> I was a medical professional until I quit to stay home with my children. *My husband *is a corporate professional


Ok, forgive my ignorance. But I always thought you were a man, Saffron. :rofl:


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## Grayson

Jellybeans said:


> Ok, forgive my ignorance. But I always thought you were a man, Saffron. :rofl:


Not me. As a big "Firefly" fan, the name Saffron always makes me picture Christina Hendricks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron

Jellybeans said:


> Ok, forgive my ignorance. But I always thought you were a man, Saffron. :rofl:


:rofl:

That's pretty damn funny! You must've thought I was dude who loved my spices, lol!

Must say I'm kind of pleased, I must not sound very girlie.


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## Jellybeans

I thought you were a dude with flair, hence the name, Saffron. 
Probably metrosexual, well-groomed, tailored clothes, and good-smelling cologne.

It's funny what we imagine from peoples' posts/avatars/names. Hehe.


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## Chaparral

Saffron said:


> :rofl:
> 
> That's pretty damn funny! You must've thought I was dude who loved my spices, lol!
> 
> Must say I'm kind of pleased, I must not sound very girlie.


I thought it was from the song......."I'm just mad about Saffron, Saffron's mad about me....." " They call me mellow yellow"

I think it was about smoking banana peels. So is saffron a yellow spice?

:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## JustWaiting

I'll get the cojones to post my story some time---but I walked in on my wife and best childhood friend and best man--- and wound up in the hospital . We are together now. I have permanent injuries I'm grateful for in an odd way. We find blessings, whatever they are, in the oddest outcomes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

JustWaiting said:


> I'll get the cojones to post my story some time---but I walked in on my wife and best childhood friend and best man--- and wound up in the hospital . We are together now. I have permanent injuries I'm grateful for in an odd way. We find blessings, whatever they are, in the oddest outcomes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Got your thumb caught in the hammer of your .357?

Or did you hurt yourself?


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## F-102

Locomotive engineer (engine driver, to our friends in the UK).


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## Soccerfan73

NBA player. We are being locked out right now so I have a ton of free time to help out with adultery questions. 

I also can reach the top of shelves at stores if you ever need assistance. Just call.


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## mr_confused

Soccerfan73 said:


> NBA player. We are being locked out right now so I have a ton of free time to help out with adultery questions.
> 
> I also can reach the top of shelves at stores if you ever need assistance. Just call.


I'm a VP at a Fortune 500 company....not sure why it matters but since you asked.

I am - more importantly a cheater....

So let me share a different perspective.

First off, you need to seek advice from people other than the betrayed. They are one source you must have but as you can see it's not a balanced perspective. Most of the long time posters in such forums are betrayed, bitter (rightfully so) and have "an experience" they feel applies to all - and often they are right, but not always. Your wife may have slipped up once, she may be remorseful, and if you both care you can reconcile.

Her immediate willingness to take a polygraph says a lot to me. Her willingness to immediately go into counseling says a lot to me.

As a cheater, I can tell you I do believe it is rare that it's a slip. something is missing, something made her vulnerable, she is seeking something she is not getting from her marriage - and I don't quite believe it's validation that she is attractive. We all enjoy such praise, but it's no rationalization for infidelity.

Like the betrayed....my view is colored by my own experience....but it took a lot to get me to cross that line. It wasn't some flip moment. I'd dig deeper here. We always blame the cheater and they (me) are always to blame for the cheating act, but I believe rare is the cheater in a fulfilling and healthy relationship. More often I believe there is more deficiencies at play, and they are things both need to address. 

We love to call cheaters cake eaters, in a "fog", and a myriad of other things. That may all be well and true in the context of the affair, but at the end of the day the fundamental relationship is often flawed and you'll need to look inward as well to address such problems.

Just one more opinion, value it to your liking......


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## Dadof3

Soccerfan73 said:


> NBA player. We are being locked out right now so I have a ton of free time to help out with adultery questions.
> 
> I also can reach the top of shelves at stores if you ever need assistance. Just call.


NBA player giving help with adultery questions? All the reading i've done would indicate that you actually would have more time to commit adultery - so why answer the questions? :smthumbup:.... :lol::rofl::lol:

No offense Soccerfan73 - I just can't help myself some days!


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## F-102

Anyway, burnt, even though half of these answers to your query are total BS, I have to ask: What's your angle?


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## the guy

constuction worker

constuction worker that got cheated on by my W of 20 yrs

constuction worker with 2 teenage kids

construction worker that made it thought the f`ck pain of infidelity

construction worker that hangs out at TAM to help outhers with the same sh~t I went through and thinks its b~llsh~t that someone has to ask what I do for a living to make my perspective either diluted or valided to make a difference.

Sorry for the languege, that just how *the guy* that builds prisons, healther care facilities, offices for engineers, and homes that we all live........... n talks to friends.


Next point, fix this crap between you and your chick so it dont happen again !!!!!!!!


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## Entropy3000

How to Alleviate Suffering From Female Hypergamy | Hooking Up Smart


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## Saffron

Grayson said:


> Not me. As a big "Firefly" fan, the name Saffron always makes me picture Christina Hendricks.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oooooo, I totally forgot about Saffron from Firefly! She was a naughty one that girl. Don't think she'd be giving very good advice on this thread, lol!

Mellow Yellow is a great Saffron reference too! Too bad my thinking behind the name was way more simple. When I first logged to TAM, I looked in my kitchen and saw the spice cabinet. A flash of this old BBC show Absolutely Fabulous went through my head, and the daughter's name was Saffron. It's strange what goes through your head around d-day. I'm surprised I didn't use "laptop" because that was sitting in front of me too.

Enough hijacking of Burnt's thread, but hopefully these posts will lighten the mood. I can't remember how long it took for me to smile or chuckle after d-day, such a tumultuous range of emotions in those early days. I remember wondering if I'd ever laugh again. Glad to report, I do and often.


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## lordmayhem

burnt said:


> quick poll here : what does everyone here do for a living ? I'm curious and I'll tell you why after you answer the question.


How is knowing everyone's occupation relevant to your situation? It doesn't matter what anyone does here for a living, infidelity can happen to anyone regardless of sex, race, age, or occupation.


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## Eli-Zor

lordmayhem said:


> How is knowing everyone's occupation relevant to your situation? It doesn't matter what anyone does here for a living, infidelity can happen to anyone regardless of sex, race, age, or occupation.


Indeed , why change the focus from the topic.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice_cheryl

Be strong.
Talk to your wife - you might have issues in your marriage.
Or she might have issues herself.


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## F-102

Unless, burnt, and I hope I'm wrong, you're one of these overeducated, overachieving pinheads who thinks that anyone lower than a PhD is not worth your important time.


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## Soccerfan73

Dadof3 said:


> NBA player giving help with adultery questions? All the reading i've done would indicate that you actually would have more time to commit adultery - so why answer the questions? :smthumbup:.... :lol::rofl::lol:
> 
> No offense Soccerfan73 - I just can't help myself some days!


But who would be a better expert than I, the NBA player? 

Just thought the guy would like to add "NBA Player" to his survey.


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## Darth Vader

burnt said:


> Yes, I confronted both of them that night and many doors were slammed, and yelling ensued. He went home, and I called her every name in the book...not my style normally but emotions totally took over any rationale. I'm not sure a polygraph is the answer but I will bring it up to her, and/or in counselling. I just hope this counselling can drag the truth out of her, regarding how long this has been going on. I WANT to believe it was just that one time, but I need to be certain. I really DO believe it didn't or never went beyond groping but like someone said, I feel disrespected and betrayed beyond belief.
> 
> This type of scenario is most likely much easier to see past if you don't actually see it happening with your own eyes:scratchhead:


I want you to think about this, you confronted your wife about her actions, but, realize this, had you not stopped her by confronting her, she would've rode this fake friend, something to think about! It's also something to ask your wife too, like asking her if she was going to screw this guy. Trust me, she _knows_ if she had any intention to ride the OM!


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## Lazarus

Master sommelier


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## Chaparral

I'm skeptical for a living........

First he notices his wife and recently divorced good friend getting drunk and being overly friendly

Second he conveniently leaves them alone together to get their freak on

Third he just happens to wake up or wait up until he can catch them tongue lashing and fondling each other.

Fourth she only did it because she used to be fat and we know why good friend did it.

Fifth he insults posters on TAM who are trying to help him with a situation they have unfortunately been familiar with. 

Sounds like a fake. Which would be good in that adultery did not happen. In any event poster comes off as inappropriately arrogant.


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## Dadof3

thats why I wondered if this was a troll earlier on this thread....


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## Entropy3000

There seems to be a type of poster that gives a sad story about how things have gone wrong for them and how they have made some bad decisions handling things. Then they start picking on posters who give them advice. To me that is trolling. i.e. sucking in people who provide sincere advice and then trying to come off as superior. I guess a form of entertainment.

I think a more valid question would be what experince folks have. My occupation is on my profile. So are the number of years of marriage. Many people with awesome careers are the most challenged in relationships because they have put their career over family. Choices. 

That said. I would rather have a faithful wife and no vacation home than three vacation homes and wife banging some guy from two homes down. That is just me.


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## Dadof3

Entropy3000 said:


> There seems to be a type of poster that gives a sad story about how things have gone wrong for them and how they have made some bad decisions handling things. Then they start picking on posters who give them advice. To me that is trolling. i.e. sucking in people who provide sincere advice and then trying to come off as superior. I guess a form of entertainment.
> 
> I think a more valid question would be what experince folks have. My occupation is on my profile. So are the number of years of marriage. Many people with awesome careers are the most challenged in relationships because they have put their career over family. Choices.
> 
> That said. I would rather have a faithful wife and no vacation home than three vacation homes and wife banging some guy from two homes down. That is just me.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## turnera

So, in other words, burnt, you're going to ignore all of us and our advice (who have helped hundreds of people through affairs) because we're not trained therapists and one trained therapist told your wife things are gonna be fine.


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## Jellybeans

Entropy hit the nail on the head. And Turner...we ARE trained TAM advisers 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## adv

Personally, I've learned so much that helped me from the posters (both the men and women, but mostly the men ) at this site. I don't understand the people who come asking for advice that then disregard that advice.


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## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> So, in other words, burnt, you're going to ignore all of us and our advice (who have helped hundreds of people through affairs) because we're not trained therapists and *one trained therapist told your wife things are gonna be fine.*


We never got confirmation that the therapist said exactly this. So very possible the wife just told him this is what the therapist said.


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## Geoffrey Marsh

guys...I don't think he is coming back.


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## MrQuatto

Geoffrey Marsh said:


> guys...I don't think he is coming back.


:iagree:


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## Amarillofat

Caught wife cheating with husband of 20 year couple friends.

Wife is sorry and regretful.

Do we tell our adult children about this?


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## Shaggy

Amarillofat said:


> Caught wife cheating with husband of 20 year couple friends.
> 
> Wife is sorry and regretful.
> 
> Do we tell our adult children about this?


You should start your own thread - you'll get more responses.


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## happyman64

Amarillo

You posted on an old thread.

Start your own thread, give specific information and you will get plenty of replies.

HM64


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## Chaparral

Amarillofat said:


> Caught wife cheating with husband of 20 year couple friends.
> 
> Wife is sorry and regretful.
> 
> Do we tell our adult children about this?


You have a lot of issues to deal with here. Start your own thread. Do not tell your wife if you haven't already.


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