# Dealing With Spouse's Past Promiscuity.



## Avos

I've been having a really hard time dealing with my spouse's past promiscuity. We've been together for 6 years. I'm not worried about her cheating. It's not a trust issue. I know that I'm insecure, possessive, it's my problem, and I should leave it in the past. Please don't just tell me to get over it (if I could, I would). 

That said, it all came reeling up recently when we went to a OB/GYN because of fertility problems. I knew that she had been with other men before me. We met when we were 23 and neither of us were virgins. We had briefly talked about our past experiences early in our relationship. She told me about some of her self destructive behavior and mentioned that she had been with a lot of men. I didn't want to know the details, and although it hurt at first, I was able to let it go and move into what has been a wonderful relationship. 

Nearly 6 years later, we are married, and have been trying to have a baby for almost 2 years now. I finally talked her into getting some medical help because I suspected something was wrong. When they asked about sexual activity I found out that she has had vaginal intercourse with 23 men and 5 women. It turns out that she has severe scars on her reproductive organs due to multiple STD infections in the past. We are going to see a reproductive specialist, but it appears that pregnancy is going to be very difficult, if not impossible. 

I have so many confusing emotions that I don't even know where to start. 28 sexual partners is vastly more than I had imagined. It makes me feel very insecure, jealous, and hurt. 
I also have some anger regarding the infertility because of the STD scarring. 

We are very open with each other and discussed the matter in detail the other night. We tried to express our feelings. I tried to understand her point of view, why & how she could have been so promiscuous before she met me. Why her values changed... ect.. 

Just to put things in perspective. I have had 1 sexual partner other than her and it was a 4 year relationship. Although it was painful to hear some of the details, I think it ultimately strengthened our relationship. I know more about my wife and I can, at least logically, understand her past behavior. 

Yet, I still can't entirely get over it. I am going to therapy. It's not helping. Right now my problems seem to revolve around 3 things. 

1. Several of her friends were once her lovers. 
I wouldn't say that any of them are really "MY" friends. But I have known these people for years. One of them lives just down the block from us. Now every time I see them I have visions of them sleeping with my wife.

2. She doesn't remember the names of most of her sexual partners but almost all of them live, or have lived, near her hometown (which is where we live now). 

3. The STD scarring.
This one is a huge problem for both of us. Knowing that I'll probably never be able to have children because of my wife's poor choices in the past is bad enough, but on top of that, she is also REALLY depressed about this issue and I don't know how to support her. She wants children more than anything and it's killing her. Yet, I can't fully support her in the way that I want , in the way that I know that I'm capable of, because I'm so hurt and angry. I know that getting STD's is not something that she intentionally set out to do. I know she's hurting. Yet, I can't help but feel it's her fault.


----------



## Mrs.G

First of all, it only takes ONE infected partner to catch an STD.
It must be awful to have your wife's past pushed in your face. Has your wife considered making new friends?
You cannot help your wife if you are grappling with your own issues. You will have to come to terms with the fact that she may not be able to have children.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## maggot brain

I recommend that you seriously consider whether or not you want to continue with this marriage BEFORE you have kids. Might be time to get out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Runs like Dog

Odd that this hasn't come up in 6 years, in any detail. Did you not want to know?


----------



## Avos

Yes, I know that you can get an STD from 1 sexual partner. I'm a nurse. :scratchhead: 

I'm not entertaining any thoughts of divorce. I really love my wife and I know that I'll eventually find a way to get past this problem.

I didn't want to know the details. I don't think most guys out there would want to know the details of their wives past sex lives. My wife didn't think she had ever had an STD. She was tested about 8 years ago and everything came up negative. However, women often don't have symptoms for bacterial infections like chlamydia. She didn't know that she ever had them. She says she should have suspected because one of her "friends with benefits" slept around a lot and was often infected. 

Anyway, I'm feeling slightly better about the situation. It helps just to write about it. I'm not expecting any real advice. Although appreciated.


----------



## Softly Walking

Everything in your wife's life that she has done up to the point you met her made her into the person you fell in love with. If you can't accept her for her then you really do need to move on. 
I think this is more a matter of your ego rather than the number of partners she's had.


----------



## Avos

^^^ While it may, and probably does, have to do with my ego. Stating that everything that happened in the past created a person that I love is very silly. I hear this all the time. The reason WHY it's not a good theory is because following this line of logic it assumes perfection in the loved one. My wife is not perfect, my love is not perfect. 

Move on? Yes, I know. I already stated that. But move on with acceptance. Leaving after 6 years over this without trying is a bit premature. Don't you think.


----------



## Softly Walking

No, it isn't silly - everything we do in life shapes how we are as a person, no matter how minor or major it is impossible to come away from it unaltered in some way, shape or form.
If you truly love her, you should stop with the guilt tripping, it's abusive in my book. Even if you don't see it as making her feel guilty what you are doing IS making her feel guilty.
You want to support her, then look her in the eye and say I love you, we can get through this together, we're a team remember? It's not the end of the world, because last time I checked the sun was still coming up and going down - the world still must be fine.


----------



## MardiGrasMambo

I agree with softly walking about the guilt trip issue. Ask yourself if you're enough of a team player to put your wife in her proper place as the person you'll help with all your might through anything. What she needs now is your deepening support for her...not your wavering...remember, you signed up for this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Avos

While I agree that everything that happens in your past shapes a person, I still disagree with your fundamental premise of a perfect person created by imperfect events. I've been alive long enough to know that perfection doesn't exist and Strong marriages are built on communication, trust, love, and hard work. I apologize for getting defensive about Softly Walking's post. I guess I can agree to disagree on that one. 

I'm not sure how I'm making her feel guilty. Other than that one heartfelt discussion we have not spoken of her past. Although it's possible that I'm missing something here, I don't think I'm projecting any blame or guilt (although subconsciously maybe). How do I go about controlling that? All I can think of is trying to understand where her mind set was during that time of her life. 

I know it's hard for strangers to give advice with so little information and I really do appreciate all your responses. It's been a couple weeks since my first post and my feelings and understanding have changed somewhat. I have less blame towards her and A LOT more guilt and blame towards myself. It's equally as silly, but as I learn and understand more about the pain she suffered as a young adult it makes me want to protect her from it. I completely know it's irrational.


----------



## Atholk

A history of multiple STDs was need to know information before you married her.

Everything hinges on whether or not you want kids of your own. If you do, you'll probably be better off divorcing her and finding someone new. If not, stay with her.

That's a pretty harsh analysis I know, I don't mean to sound cruel. It's just your basic options.

So sorry that you have to go through this.


----------



## Catherine602

Atholk said:


> A history of multiple STDs was need to know information before you married her.
> 
> Everything hinges on whether or not you want kids of your own. If you do, you'll probably be better off divorcing her and finding someone new. If not, stay with her.
> 
> That's a pretty harsh analysis I know, I don't mean to sound cruel. It's just your basic options.
> 
> So sorry that you have to go through this.


I would not call your analysis harsh as much as the outcome of common thoughts that touch only the surface. If you read the post carefully she was not aware that she had an STD. This is not uncommon for women. 

I feel sorry for both her and her husband. She has had past trauma and he is in emotional turmoil over her past. However, people are not disposable when there is a problem that goes for women too. They have had quite a blow and you advise him to throw her away abruptly because the nature of her infertity was an STD. Would you advice be the same if he were infertile or if her infertility was due to some other cause? 

This man loves this women. He does not appear to be a shallow person concerned with his entitlements in life. Therefore his love seems to lack the shallowness common to people whose hearts are touched only by their own concerns. 

In your rush to advise him to discard her you failed to consider that he could have his own child - she has eggs and a uterus he has sperm. The scaring occurs in the tubes so she can have invitro. 

It is gratifying to see you are a man of depth and commitment. She is very fortunate to have a man like you in her life. She certainly deserves to have something go her way, goodness knows she did not have a fortunate teens and 20s. 
There is no reason she should be treated cruelly or punished for being infertile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## PHTlump

Catherine602 said:


> If you read the post carefully she was not aware that she had an STD. This is not uncommon for women.


It's not uncommon, but the OP said his wife had multiple STD infections in the past. He didn't say she was unaware of them. With multiple infections that were bad enough to significantly decrease her fertility, it's likely that she knew about them.



Catherine602 said:


> There is no reason she should be treated cruelly or punished for being infertile.


I don't think she's being punished. Sometimes, when you sleep with dozens of anonymous strangers, there are long term consequences. That's not the OP's fault. It's hers.


----------



## Runs like Dog

Ok there are health concerns and that's horrible but something you can overcome. But you call is promiscuity. I would call it experience.


----------



## Atholk

Catherine602 said:


> They have had quite a blow and you advise him to throw her away abruptly because the nature of her infertity was an STD. Would you advice be the same if he were infertile or if her infertility was due to some other cause?
> 
> There is no reason she should be treated cruelly or punished for being infertile.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's because she withheld need to know information from him. She decived him by witholding information that he had a right to know about.

He obviously wouldn't have married her if he knew about 28 sexual partners, multiple STDs and infertility. 2 of the 3 things are easily stated and as a nurse he would have know the potential for the 3rd due to the STDs.


----------



## VLR

Avos, you and I have a lot in common, especially the fact that your wife told you she had slept around before and you didn't want details. Now you are discovering the implications of your choice to avoid the information. I feel for you and for your wife, because I see you struggling with similar issues to those I face now. You love your wife and want to work through it and perhaps you can with your counselor's help. I'm sorry it doesn't seem to be working. I have no real help to offer, only empathy. 

For me, I am focused on what I need to learn about myself. 

Why did I want a particular situation in marriage, but close my eyes to the truth? 

Why did I think I could ignore reality and have it morph to fit my fantasy? 

Isn't it unfair for me to say "It's all good" and then later want to revisit unfinished business? I think it is unfair of me, but maybe your story is different. 

Now that the truth has slapped me in the face so that I can't ignore it, how do I face what I should have faced a long time ago? 

For years I viewed myself as a victim in love and have recently tried to step up and accept responsibility. It's much harder now than it would have been years ago because the original problem has been complicated by my own dysfunctional reaction . Instead of honestly addressing the issues effectively when they were first presented, I chose to propose marriage to her. I have married the unresolved issues of the past. I'm not perfect enough myself to stand in judgment, but I need relief from the pain. I don't want to be selfish or to serve my own best interests at her expense. Failure to deal with conflict has only compounded the problems. Now I'm ready to deal, but still no better at it. If I had dealt with it originally, I could have been in a position to end the relationship and she could have been in a position to end the conversation and / or the relationship. I chose to sweep it all under the rug and move forward with her. When you propose marriage to someone you need to accept, love and support them not attack them for their past or make them feel guilty. If I say nothing that is being dishonest and the profound emotional effect it has on me is impossible to hide. It seeps into the relationship in various ways if I try to suppress it. I do not want to be passive aggressive. I do not want to withdraw my love. I want to fight fair if it has to be a fight. I want to offer acceptance and understanding but I need answers. I've been lied to and deceived or at least I feel as though I have been. Is this how you feel? 

You may not relate to anything I'm saying about my own situation and even if you do relate, it may not help. But I'm as confused as you are, if thats any consolation. 

It is difficult to reconcile the desire to support your wife through a time that is tough for her and then to turn around and find a way to have a conversation about sensitive things from her past that have hurt you. It sounds like she was not dishonest in her representation of her past. You stopped her from telling you any more. Isn't that right? Now you are wishing you had understood the implications of facts you were emotionally unable to handle back when the conversation first came up. Maybe that's not how it was with you, but it is how it was with me. 

In my case, much of the responsibility is on me. I have to find a way to come to grips with that before I can begin to explore how to talk to my wife about her part in it. I don't want my wife to be alienated or feel judged, but when the time comes for the conversation I need to have I must prepare for her to be offended, angry, indignant and to walk away. I don't want that, but to say nothing is dishonest also. In my case, my wife was dishonest with me about some relationships with other men, but I let it go without exploring the conversation adequately because I couldn't handle the truth. I think she knew that and that's why she lied. Some would say a woman's past isn't her husband's business. Maybe they are right. My chief concern has to do with an affair she had while we were getting back together after a breakup. She lied about it and I feel it is my business because it was during the time that we were back in communication and talking on the phone regularly after the break up. 

As you can see, my response is more about my trying to make sense of my own screwed up life than it is about helping you. I wish I could help myself and also help you, but I don't think I can help either of us. 

I wish you the best. Stay in counseling and I suggest you try to understand yourself before you try to have her explain herself to you.


----------



## Catherine602

Atholk said:


> It's because she withheld need to know information from him. She decived him by witholding information that he had a right to know about.
> 
> He obviously wouldn't have married her if he knew about 28 sexual partners, multiple STDs and infertility. 2 of the 3 things are easily stated and as a nurse he would have know the potential for the 3rd due to the STDs.


You really need to read the post and not twist them to fit the issues that are sources of your anxieties. It is amazing how you comment has nothing to do with what the poster wrote. There is nothing in his post that indicates that she deceived him nor that she was aware that she had STDs or with held info from him. He did not ask about details. She was honest when they met at 23 yo, she said she had multiple partners, that does not sound like deception to me. he made the choice to marry her, he deceived her.

She told him, he proceeded with the relationship fully informed and now that they are married she is stuck with a man who suddenly switches on her. She probably thought she put her past problems behind her only to be tormented by a man who claims to love her. . 

You need to isolate yourself and men like you to a little island where woman will have lines tattooed into their foreheads for each man they have sex with and a red star for STDs. This will not help with your problems with female sexuality though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Atholk

Catherine602 said:


> You really need to read the post and not twist them to fit the issues that are sources of your anxieties. It is amazing how you comment has nothing to do with what the poster wrote. There is nothing in his post that indicates that she deceived him nor that she was aware that she had STDs or with held info from him. He did not ask about details. She was honest when they met at 23 yo, she said she had multiple partners, that does not sound like deception to me. he made the choice to marry her, he deceived her


Hmmm... let's see...



Avos said:


> She told me about some of her self destructive behavior and mentioned that she had been with a lot of men. I didn't want to know the details, and although it hurt at first, I was able to let it go and move into what has been a wonderful relationship.
> 
> *28 sexual partners is vastly more than I had imagined.* It makes me feel very insecure, jealous, and hurt.
> I also have some anger regarding the infertility because of the STD scarring.


If he had known, he would never have married her.

A sexual history of multiple STDs is need to know information. It's called a lie of omission.


----------



## BigBadWolf

This thread is heartbreaking.

This woman is guilty of lying, based on the OP's post, on this I agree.

Myself, I would have pressed for details, and would advise my own sons to do the same with any woman they are interested in. 

And this is exactly why.

Marriage, as a sexual and emotional relationship, it is a union formed in trust, to create something together as a couple that does not exist as individuals. 

This creation, we as humans can describe it as a hope, or dream, or goal, or some other such thing, but regardless, the expectations are as follows:

Marriage is a sexual relationship.

Such a sexual relationship carries the hope of producing successfl offspring, which to many humans is our highest aspiration and most noble desire.

These are reasonable expectations of marriage.

The "lies of omission" from this woman, and yes her past behavior, has jeopardized both of these reasonable expecations.

Shaming comments, such as to accuse the OP of merely having a hurt ego in this situation, or flippantly excusing this woman's promiscuity, are not only unhelpful, they demonstrate an embarrassingly shallow and contemptuous opinion of men, women, marriage, and indeed basic shared human aspirations and dreams outright. 

To the OP:

I suggest taking time to DECIDE for yourself what you want. 

If this sad situation is a dealbreaker, for your benefit and the benefit of your woman, I would recommend separation and eventual divorce and not be wishy washy for many years with this wound festering resentment between you and your woman. 

However, if you decide you will be fine without children, and can live with your woman's sexual past, then give your marriage 100 percent and move forward as honesty and deliberatly as you can.

I wish you well.


----------



## candice912

Avos, 
I often find men men ask dangerous questions that they are not prepared to handle the answers, such as; "How many partners did you have before me?" Anytime I've heard an honest answer, a number, men get hung up on it, whether it be two or fourty. What I don't hear is women saying, "I just can't handle it, my husband slept with X number of people before me." Just think about that. I find the reasoning comes from the ego as someone else said before and out of date expectations on women. 

You were aware she had a past and maybe one you weren't crazy about,, but you married her anyway. Even if she does have some scarring, it does not ultimately prevent you from having children. There are other ways. Besides, past or no past, not all women can have children for many reasons. Not all men can either. Should all those people get divorced based on that? That sounds shallow and doesn't sound like a committed marriage to me. You could always adopt, but having your own seed is part of ego too. I'm saying all of this to help you put things in proper perspective. None of what you are saying are any events against you. It doesn't sound like she has violated her marriage vows and you still love her. Work it out. This is a minor issue. 

I do agree that you having trouble coming to grips with this is causing her guilt and grief. Let it go. It's the past. You weren't a virgin either. Perhaps you were luckier than her that your partner didn't pass anything on it you, but it takes just one partner to give you something, so the number is ficticious. 

I agree with you that nobody is perfect, so when these negative feelings hit you, try to focus on the good aspects of your wife. Don't ruin your relationship today for what mistakes may have been in the past, whether their yours or hers. 

As for these "friends". She is young. I was more inclined to be still friends with my ex's at that age. Perhaps you two should consider moving to a new neighborhood for a fresh start. I will tell you though, that these visions of your wife with her exes are most likely only in your head. Once a guy is an ex, I don't think of him sexually anymore. I have thought of nice dinners we had together or walks, conversations, but not sexual moments. I only think of my husband like that. She is with you now. I am confident that it is the same for her. Besides, she married you, not them. That means she wants you, not them. Make peace with this and find the positive in your marriage to build upon. Marriage is not easy, but it has it's rewards if you work on it. Good luck.


----------



## PHTlump

candice912 said:


> I find the reasoning comes from the ego as someone else said before and out of date expectations on women.


It may be out of date to expect a virginal bride. However, 28 partners is off the charts for American women. ABC reports a survey average of 6 partners for women. Another source I've seen uses 6.6 as the average.



candice912 said:


> Besides, past or no past, not all women can have children for many reasons. Not all men can either. Should all those people get divorced based on that?


Not all cases of infertility are equal. If a woman develops cancer and is infertile as a result, she is not to blame and should be supported. If a woman knows, or suspects, that she is infertile through many past STDs, then she has a responsibility to give that information to her fiance.



candice912 said:


> Perhaps you were luckier than her that your partner didn't pass anything on it you, but it takes just one partner to give you something, so the number is ficticious.


Not really. If a life long smoker develops lung cancer, he's not unlucky. He spent years engaged in high risk behavior and the consequences of that behavior caught up with him. I'm certainly not shocked that a woman who engaged in anonymous sex with dozens of men and women caught multiple STDs.

If the OP, with his single prior partner in a long term relationship, had developed an STD, then you could argue that he was unlucky.

I hope the OP can forgive his wife for her prior bad behavior and her not telling him of the possibility of infertility. He sounds like such a nice guy that he likely would have married her anyway.


----------



## candice912

PHTlump said:


> It may be out of date to expect a virginal bride. However, 28 partners is off the charts for American women. ABC reports a survey average of 6 partners for women. Another source I've seen uses 6.6 as the average.
> 
> 
> Not all cases of infertility are equal. If a woman develops cancer and is infertile as a result, she is not to blame and should be supported. If a woman knows, or suspects, that she is infertile through many past STDs, then she has a responsibility to give that information to her fiance.
> 
> 
> Not really. If a life long smoker develops lung cancer, he's not unlucky. He spent years engaged in high risk behavior and the consequences of that behavior caught up with him. I'm certainly not shocked that a woman who engaged in anonymous sex with dozens of men and women caught multiple STDs.
> 
> If the OP, with his single prior partner in a long term relationship, had developed an STD, then you could argue that he was unlucky.
> 
> I hope the OP can forgive his wife for her prior bad behavior and her not telling him of the possibility of infertility. He sounds like such a nice guy that he likely would have married her anyway.


Right, we are out of the dark ages, so quit counting HER partners. Secondly, where are those statistics coming from? Did someone follow all those women around and document their sex lives to get those numbers or were they relying on women to admit how many people they slept with under the fear that they would be seen as a **** if the number was too high. In psychology, we studied how women tend to downplay the number whereas a men tend to brag. It's a false statistic with zero evidence to back it up.

I agree with you he sounds like a nice guy. It also sounds like she changed her life too, so should she be condemned for a past mistake?


----------



## fatiguedfatherof4

Why is it if a man sleeps around he's a dog or a man-***** to women but when a woman sleeps with untold #'s of men then somehow they are victims or we should coddle them for their indescretions. Total double standard... just like the double standard of guys thinking its cool to sleep around and women are tramps if they do!
Why doesn't everyone keep their clothes on and learn a little more about themselves before humping all around the neighborhood (male of female)therefore having all these emotional,physical problems! Here's a great article on promiscuity.
Guys, like the women said, we are in a different time now and apparently it's ok to have sex whomever you wish and not ever, ever have to worry about a thing because all you have to say is you were sad and depressed and its ok!!

The Damage of Sexual Promiscuity

This is a great article to read.... if I havent pissed everyone off.


----------



## fatiguedfatherof4

Avos said:


> I'm not entertaining any thoughts of divorce. I really love my wife and I know that I'll eventually find a way to get past this problem.


From experience, dont bet your future away like that.... it does NOT get better or go away and all the "get over it" advice is gonna drive you nuts!! My ex and I were divorced more than 10 years ago and have since gotten back together but not before she had slept with more than 10 to 12 men that I know of. Some really, really bad stuff but I thought I could get past it because I loved her so much. Now 10+ years later and my hopes that it would "get better" or "it'll pass" are NOT gonna happen. Thats wishful thinking. Its harsh to say but move on and have children with someone you can feel comfortable with sexually. 
I have had very limited partners myself (4 with her my 5th) and to me it feels like less of an experience as it should feel (making love).
Compared to my situation your wifes #'s arent that bad.... cold be worse, it could have been 50 or more like I have to deal with.


----------



## Mom6547

Atholk said:


> A history of multiple STDs was need to know information before you married her.


SHE did not know though I agree the whole I did not want to know was a bad idea.



> Everything hinges on whether or not you want kids of your own. If you do, you'll probably be better off divorcing her and finding someone new. If not, stay with her.


And what if she were infertile for another reason?


----------



## Mom6547

There are mistakes that one can forgive and get over. And mistakes that one can't. If my husband had a history of murdering, well I could never get over that no matter how remorseful and changed he was. 

The question you need to ask yourself is, is this a mistake you can truly forgive and move on from or not?


----------



## fatiguedfatherof4

candice912 said:


> In psychology, we studied how women tend to downplay the number whereas a men tend to brag. It's a false statistic with zero evidence to back it up.


True that... men usually multiply theirs and women usually give a fraction of their true number.


----------



## fatiguedfatherof4

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


BigBadWolf said:


> This thread is heartbreaking.
> 
> This woman is guilty of lying, based on the OP's post, on this I agree.
> 
> Myself, I would have pressed for details, and would advise my own sons to do the same with any woman they are interested in.
> 
> And this is exactly why.
> 
> Marriage, as a sexual and emotional relationship, it is a union formed in trust, to create something together as a couple that does not exist as individuals.
> 
> This creation, we as humans can describe it as a hope, or dream, or goal, or some other such thing, but regardless, the expectations are as follows:
> 
> Marriage is a sexual relationship.
> 
> Such a sexual relationship carries the hope of producing successfl offspring, which to many humans is our highest aspiration and most noble desire.
> 
> These are reasonable expectations of marriage.
> 
> The "lies of omission" from this woman, and yes her past behavior, has jeopardized both of these reasonable expecations.
> 
> Shaming comments, such as to accuse the OP of merely having a hurt ego in this situation, or flippantly excusing this woman's promiscuity, are not only unhelpful, they demonstrate an embarrassingly shallow and contemptuous opinion of men, women, marriage, and indeed basic shared human aspirations and dreams outright.
> 
> To the OP:
> 
> I suggest taking time to DECIDE for yourself what you want.
> 
> If this sad situation is a dealbreaker, for your benefit and the benefit of your woman, I would recommend separation and eventual divorce and not be wishy washy for many years with this wound festering resentment between you and your woman.
> 
> However, if you decide you will be fine without children, and can live with your woman's sexual past, then give your marriage 100 percent and move forward as honesty and deliberatly as you can.
> 
> I wish you well.


:iagree:
Wow Wolf, much wisdom in this post.... thanks.


----------



## Mrs.G

fatiguedfatherof4 said:


> True that... men usually multiply theirs and women usually give a fraction of their true number.


:iagree::iagree: Not even my doctor knows how many people I have been to bed with. My husband found out of my sordid past, but he does not know the actual number. I will die before I share that with anyone. The way women are punished for being sexual, any number more than five is too many for us!


----------



## Shaggy

It's not just that she had lots of partners it's that they sound like truly scum of the earth lowlifes. And to top it off she is nw barren from given them her affection, and to make matters worse she remains in friendly contact with these pieces of trash.

I know you love you wife, but you married a person who freely gave away your future to have children of your own. And if you had been there with her and tried to stop her, she would have called you controlling.

You both need therapy to deal with the turbulent emotions this is causing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Struggling4ever

Avos said:


> ^^^ While it may, and probably does, have to do with my ego. Stating that everything that happened in the past created a person that I love is very silly. I hear this all the time. The reason WHY it's not a good theory is because following this line of logic it assumes perfection in the loved one. My wife is not perfect, my love is not perfect.
> 
> Move on? Yes, I know. I already stated that. But move on with acceptance. Leaving after 6 years over this without trying is a bit premature. Don't you think.


I personally believe that "everything that happened in the past created a person that I love" is exactly true! It does not assume the perfection of a loved one....but it seems like you did? Without all of her experiences, she would not be the woman she is, the woman you fell in love with! No one knows what really goes on in someone elses head or what they've really done...at least she was able to share this embaressing info with you because she wants so bad to have your child and apparently loves you! Either accept it and love her for who she is, or do her a favor and move on so she can get the love and respect every person deserves in a relationship from someone else!


----------



## prc911

Struggling4ever said:


> I personally believe that "everything that happened in the past created a person that I love" is exactly true!


thats kind of wishful thinking thou isnt it? it doesnt mean that the avoidance of certain negative experiences would necessarily lead to a different person altogether.....how does the removal of a few one night stands which after all are "short careless mistakes" change that person so dramatically? I doubt it....

I mean i know this issue is one of intimacy and insecurity from us by all means, but i do not agree we should take this as a position where we are wrong about all our feelings and everything done in the past by the other and it should be of no emotional feeling to us at all....yes I made a decision to marry this person knowningly of all the past experiences, and we live happy everafter but am not required to ever agree to them or accept then as ethical..... because then if I do, hell i could end up becoming a different person!!!

I say this because in teaching our children we should not set precedent that when it comes to sexual experiences that* "hey kids go get as much as you want, as many partners as possible as long as using STD protection, have all your fun while you are young, then when you decide to settle down with the ONE, he or she WILL have to accept your past no matter what.." wrong....* they might be shocked and even emotionally debasteted when they find out their ONE is uniwilling to enter into a relationship with someone that they feel their moral values arent compatible with....*and we cannot judge or critize that person one bit, thats a choice they are totally entittld to make bassed on their core values....*


----------



## Struggling4ever

I guess you are angry, an we agree to disagree? I choose to judge someone by how they are from the time they meet me and not what they did before. If you loved her for who she was, well that was all a part of it whether you knew it or not.... Divorce her and let her find someone who loves her for who she is instead of having her stay with someone who judges her for who she was.... my opinion dude!


----------



## prc911

Struggling4ever said:


> I guess you are angry, an we agree to disagree? I choose to judge someone by how they are from the time they meet me and not what they did before. If you loved her for who she was, well that was all a part of it whether you knew it or not.... Divorce her and let her find someone who loves her for who she is instead of having her stay with someone who judges her for who she was.... my opinion dude!


wow, lol....

it has nothing to do with anger, judgement or divorce, geez.... you are way off track......it simply means someone doesnt have to agree with something their partner has done in the past (near or long) in order to love them, and more importantly when it comes to raising and teaching their children. And that some of us dont think that creating these wishful thinking scenarios (such as the past made that person all he/she is today) in order to convince ourselves isnt the answer.....you dont have to agree with anything am saying by the way...there is no right or wrong here, but the simplicity by which some paint it isnt applicable to all and dangerous in some cases....thats all


----------



## Struggling4ever

prc911 said:


> wow, lol....
> 
> it has nothing to do with anger, judgement or divorce, geez.... you are way off track......it simply means someone doesnt have to agree with something their partner has done in the past (near or long) in order to love them, and more importantly when it comes to raising and teaching their children. And that some of us dont think that creating these wishful thinking scenarios (such as the past made that person all he/she is today) in order to convince ourselves isnt the answer.....you dont have to agree with anything am saying by the way...there is no right or wrong here, but the simplicity by which some paint it isnt applicable to all and dangerous in some cases....thats all


wow, lol... right back atcha? :scratchhead: 
I stated;

_"""I guess you are angry, an we agree to disagree? I choose to judge someone by how they are from the time they meet me and not what they did before. If you loved her for who she was, well that was all a part of it whether you knew it or not.... Divorce her and let her find someone who loves her for who she is instead of having her stay with someone who judges her for who she was.... my opinion dude!"""_

I stand by it...and I no I don't have to agree with you? That would be why I said *we agree to disagree *and *my opinion?*


----------



## prc911

well you made a pretty strong statement by indicating....



Struggling4ever said:


> Divorce her and let her find someone who loves her for who she is instead of having her stay with someone who judges her for who she was.... my opinion dude!


...so that was very confusing to me....also my initial response wasnt about the past as it relates to our marriage, but more in how to raise children considering learnings from both of our pasts as parents and sexuality......

am not mad at you or anything, just clearing things up for future readers so they dont end up --> :scratchhead:


----------



## Struggling4ever

prc911 said:


> well you made a pretty strong statement by indicating....
> 
> 
> 
> ...so that was very confusing to me....also my initial response wasnt about the past as it relates to our marriage, but more in how to raise children considering learnings from both of our pasts as parents and sexuality......
> 
> am not mad at you or anything, just clearing things up for future readers so they dont end up --> :scratchhead:


Gotcha...I apologize! It's your thread and I am experiencing anger that should have been released years ago....so excuse me for being a little bitter right now....it's not your fault and again, I'm sorry.


----------



## Goldmember357

prc911 said:


> thats kind of wishful thinking thou isnt it? it doesnt mean that the avoidance of certain negative experiences would necessarily lead to a different person altogether.....how does the removal of a few one night stands which after all are "short careless mistakes" change that person so dramatically? I doubt it....
> 
> I mean i know this issue is one of intimacy and insecurity from us by all means, but i do not agree we should take this as a position where we are wrong about all our feelings and everything done in the past by the other and it should be of no emotional feeling to us at all....yes I made a decision to marry this person knowningly of all the past experiences, and we live happy everafter but am not required to ever agree to them or accept then as ethical..... because then if I do, hell i could end up becoming a different person!!!
> 
> I say this because in teaching our children we should not set precedent that when it comes to sexual experiences that* "hey kids go get as much as you want, as many partners as possible as long as using STD protection, have all your fun while you are young, then when you decide to settle down with the ONE, he or she WILL have to accept your past no matter what.." wrong....* *they might be shocked and even emotionally debasteted when they find out their ONE is uniwilling to enter into a relationship with someone that they feel their moral values arent compatible with.*...*and we cannot judge or critize that person one bit, thats a choice they are totally entittld to make bassed on their core values....*


:iagree:

Some of the people on here are fooling themselves with this twisted logic that "the past does not count or mater" its all BS on major levels. I do not even want to get into a million reasons on what a person's past can reflect and this is not just in regards to sexual past or promiscuity. However on the note of promiscuity i suppose the average number of sexual partners and what is viewed as that of say "normal" differs from culture to culture and has changed throughout human history. However with that being said there is no "normal" as normal is a social construct but in regards to "normal" 23 sexual partners is far far beyond an average 2-6 for women. Its far beyond what men average 7-14 and far beyond what Austrian men average and they are said to be the most promiscuous men in the world with an average of like 20-21 sexual partners. In addition i find it astounding when people marry and now so little about there partners past. In TS case he brought this upon himself by not asking for details and not truly knowing as much about his wife as he thought. Perhaps a rushed marriage?

So yes a person's past along with there sexual past is hugely important to a relationship and a long term relationship unless you are in denial. If that is the case than i would assume "set" person in denial is unwilling to admit there sexual past or is perhaps ashamed of the past and wants to try to act like it would not bother most people as maybe there spouse has learned to accept it or the partial truth they may have told to there spouse. Nevertheless you should know all about a person before marrying as much as you can know. You should NOT HAVE TOLD ANY LIARS IF NOT EVER NO MAJOR LIES. You SHOULD NOT LIE ABOUT YOUR PAST.. In addition bending the truth and LYING about SEXUAL PAST is a red flag for a number of reasons.

If you find such issue with a person's past and it conflicts with the type of person you thought they were than you are out of luck. You cannot expect to truly have a consummate love with a person that you cannot find love in and its hard to find set love when the the spouse and yourself cannot see eye to it let alone if you find many parts of them and the past included to conflict with your morality/personality and way of life. Conflicting with your way of life and how you were raised and your morals are huge reasons marriages fail. I mean what if you were from some culture/village that tolerated infidelity and than your spouse told you years later of your infidelity? what would you do or if you learned they never cheated on you but cheated on countless other partners in the past?

A person's past in which they willingly did things is huge indicator of where the conscious mind is and how there cognitive mind is.... So to all of you who are acting like a persons sexual past or promiscuity does not mater it does mater to majority of the world and has throughout human history. Lets not even begin to explain how women are "supposed to be viewed'" let alone the role and positions they have held throughout human history and societies along with the biological differences between male and females and the evolutionary differences and process and ways the mind works differently between the two sexes and a lot of that is garnered through social environment. So TS wife with 28 sexual partners points to a lot of things breaking all of what is viewed as average and what society and human history is accustomed to and has surpassed the threshold of excess leading to huge excessive.


----------



## Goldmember357

prc911 said:


> wow, lol....
> 
> it has nothing to do with anger, judgement or divorce, geez.... you are way off track......it simply means someone doesnt have to agree with something their partner has done in the past (near or long) in order to love them, and more importantly when it comes to raising and teaching their children. And that some of us dont think that creating these wishful thinking scenarios (such as the past made that person all he/she is today) in order to convince ourselves isnt the answer.....you dont have to agree with anything am saying by the way...there is no right or wrong here, but the simplicity by which some paint it isnt applicable to all and dangerous in some cases....thats all


Precisely what i think


----------



## Leveuvenoire

I can say I do see things from her perspective. I too was a wild one. I've had more partners than she has and yes I have gone through consequences for some seriously stupid mistakes that I've made. Although my stupidity didn't make me infertile it did give me an incurable infection along with pain and regret that I will have to live with for the rest of my life. Unfortunately my husband has to live with my burden as well. At first, He handled it a lot like you. He told me he didn't want to know but eventually I told him details. I'm not sure how he dealt with it (in his mind) but after we had a deep conversation and I told him my circumstances back then he seemed to be better. Has she ever told you why? Regardless this is a tough life to live and unfortunately it's just the road we took. You have every right to have some resentment. It's not fair that you have to pay the consequences for her actions but it's the past and unfortunately there is nothing anyone can do to change it. I'm sure she would if she could.... believe me I most definitely would. I'm just so thankful to have my husband by my side. The road has sucked but it's most definitely made us stronger. 
I really hope you find the strength to forgive her. I don't know what her circumstances were but not being able to have a normal life and knowing that it's all my fault is extremely draining emotionally. She needs you. 

Oh and I tried to keep my ex lover friends around all it did was create issues between us. It hurt to let them go because I knew them for years but I did what I had to do to keep what was (and still is) precious to me. Have you talked to her about it? 

Is there an update as far as her fertility? That's so hard. I'm sorry


----------



## Masil78

Hi Avos,

I have to say your story hit close to home for me. I actually just posted about this same topic. I am in a similar situation as your wife, and her story reminds me of my own. My boyfriend of three years is having a similar reaction to yours, even though I was very open and honest with him at the beginning of the relationship and told him everything. He still can't let it go. 

You obviously love your wife. I disagree with other posters that say you should divorce her. It sounds like she tried to tell you and you didn't want to listen? Is that right? She probably should have pushed harder, but it's hard. 

Marriage is for better or for worse. That's what you promised, right? In sickness and in health. Marriage should be forever.

I think you two need to go to therapy together. I obviously don't know for sure, but it seems that maybe your wife had some past trauma that she hasn't told you about. Anyone I know who has been with that many partners (myself included) have past trauma.

For me, I was sexually abused for 2 years starting at age 8 by a close relative. This person also exposed me to hard core pornography. I was also drugged and raped at a party in college when I had only had one sexual partner (my first long term boyfriend). After that happened, I stopped caring about myself and started just having sex. I assumed I was trash since people treated me this way.

While I have been completely faithful to my current partner and I know I have changed, I can't go through a day without feeling horrible about myself and very depressed.

My reason for telling you this is not to get you or anyone else to feel sorry for me because I made those bad choices and I'm the only one to blame. But you should understand that there is something going on that's much deeper, and that your wife probably doesn't feel too good about herself. The fertility issue is just another blow for her (as it is for you). Sit down with her and support her through therapy, and she can support you as well. 

Another thing: Tell her to get rid of the ex boyfriends that are now friends. There is almost never a reason to keep an ex around, especially if you're married. If it really bothers you that much, she needs to respect that and get them out of her life.

Please, work on your marriage and supporting each other. I can tell by the way you talk about your wife that you love her. Love is so hard to find so you should always hold on to it. Good luck to you.


----------



## The Lurker

maggot brain said:


> I recommend that you seriously consider whether or not you want to continue with this marriage BEFORE you have kids. Might be time to get out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed...


----------



## MyTwoCents

IF YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRULY MOVE ON AND NOT HURT OVER THE PAST ......GET THE BOOK "REDEEMING LOVE" BY FRANCINE RIVERS AND DON'T PUT IT DOWN UNTIL YOU ARE FINISHED WITH IT!!! 

If you read that book and your spouses past still haunts you than you will probably never get past it in which case it's better to move on. Life is too short to sit around hoping one day you'll be happy. 

As for the fertility issue... that is something that I have never had to deal with so I wouldn't even begin to offer an opinion let alone my advice. That one is something only you can decide.


----------



## bigmouthstrikesagain

I'm just gonna necrothread and analyze a bit. Slightly coming from a personal perspective and reading posts on forums.

This has LITTLE to do with the actual OP situation. This is poorly applicable because his problem is/was of nature most extreme. There is the deal with marriage, STDs, childlessness which are all bigger things than these simple abstractions.

First of all, there seems to be several different, perhaps separate issues with a spouse's/girlfriend's/boyfriend's past promiscuity.

1) The physical or mental disgust
2) The envy due to the amount or quality (perhaps lesbian/gay relations or threesome) of partners
3) The despise or contempt towards the partner's personality which the number or quality of sexual relations depict

Now the issues 2 and 3 are mutually exclusive. Not sure if that's the word, what I mean is that they cant both exist at the same time.

If one is envious then one cannot despise the partner because one would've done the same thing. That is, have all these sexual relations. If one despises the partner for having all these relations, then surely one can't be envious of them. It's got to be either, determined by a very simple question:

"Given the same opportunity, would I have done the same thing?"

Answear whatever you may.

The first issue is ultimately impossible to come over. It's because a relationship is generally exclusive by nature. On the other hand the disgust will fade over time.

And so does envy which is replaced by the good things in the relationship. On the other hand the envy of past sexual affairs often comes with envy of other things (the lack of an adventurous youth, experience, friends, hobbies) which can cause an unbearable combined effect.

The third issue is clearly the most problematic because it conflicts with all the explanations offered below. On the other hand, I imagine, only a few can admit being so puritan that they can resort to a moral higher ground.

Next post deals with the explanations offered that are supposed to remove the issues.


----------



## bigmouthstrikesagain

The explanations offered on forums and websites were many. All in all the problem with all of them was that if a person is ULTIMATELY AIMING for a stable relationship, then explaining one's past behaviour becomes difficult. Short and numerous sexual encounters are, with the mindset of a marriage or otherwise long term relations, inadvertably a sign of weakness and inconsistency.

This does not, however, mean that one should despise them. Nearly all of us would've jumped in the same "inconsistencies" (that is, had short sexual encounters) if we simply had had the chance. Most problems have to do with the ISSUE 3.

1) The fact that a partner tells me of these relationships shows that (s)he cares about me.

Problem: telling means caring, but surely omitting these facts would've shown that I'm being cared for even more? That my mental health wouldn't have been sabotaged with these images, that I'd have been able to live in blissful ignorance. Or knowing that it's her private matter. Which is way more valuable than having honesty thrown in your face in such a blunt manner. But only if my partner was completely sure that her relations did not have any serious consequences. That is to say, of course, I would prefer my partner to have tested her/himself for STDs.

2) Experience means better sex.

Problem: having many partners is no absolute guarantee that one is better in sex - especially women don't benefit from them. Being better in sex is more result of a long-term relationship because that allows more experimenting and requires more thought on the matter. Particularly when the "honeymoon period" is over. Having an experienced partner may also lead to feelings of inferiority and unnecessary flashbacks from her/his past.

3) (Ultimately the most frequent one) Past is past and there's nothing one can do about it. Past has made your partner the (good, lovely, loveable) person (s)he is.

Problem: past is a STRONG message about what kind of person you're dealing with. Past is not just a positive depictment. Not all experience is positive and not all experiences affect personality, especially not positively. And having, for example, thirty sexual partners does not speak of a solid character.

No one would use this argument so light-heartedly when speaking of drug use or violent crime (especially about crime against women or domestic): "all those assaults made him the sweet creature he is nowadays". Despite this people grab this explanation as soon as possible when they're in the crossfire themselves.

3) Your partner did not know YOU when making her/his choices.

Problem: your partner needn't know ANYONE to make good choices in her sex life - choices that aren't despicable, that are based in solid thinking about relationships, that are not result of a momentary and impulsive way of thinking, that don't speak of lack of judgement.

4) Your partner has gotten past that phase. He's/she's different now.

Problem: smart people don't need to make the mistakes themselves (touch the burning hot stove) to realize that a certain way of doing this just doesn't make it in the long run. If it's just been a phase, well that just shows how dumb your partner has been. Or is.

5) What matters is how he/she treats you know.

Problem: again, past tells about the character of a person, this time about the lack of judgement.

6) It's your problem, not your partner's. You're insecure, you should do something about that.

Problem: the person with the long sexual history is not exactly innocent either. This is just too black and white. Just because something cannot be done about the past doesn't mean it shouldn't affect things.

Insecurity has everything to do with issue 2, envy. Person doesn't view oneself as good as the other due to lack of sex in the past. In this case the problem is solely yours.

However with issue 3 the person is completely secure that his/her thinking's right. In this case the problem is solely in the partner (unless we thinking having a puritanian value set is problematic, which we in all fairness might) because his/her behaviour shows a weakness in the character.

7) Jealousy can be a good thing. The need to possess one's partner can be turned to one's advantage.

Problem: jealousy is a feeling. It's extremely hard to cognitively reconstruct like that. Or create from nothingness.

8) One can aim to be the best sex partner one's partner has ever had.

Problem: this reinforces the comparison, and causes ill feelings in the long run. Short term effects can be good. If dealing with issue 3, then this piece of advice is no use.


----------



## preets

Now that you have accepted your wife fully, leave all anger and consult a good gyn/fertility specialist and get the teatment done. Else you have option of surrogate mother. And if all this doesn't work in your case then simply adopt a child. 

The important point is that she is now only yours and have forgotten her past. Then you should also don't engrave her past.

Preeti


----------



## bg 600

Hello

Honestly i would leave her. When a man gets married he sacrifices EVERYTHING for that woman. Marriage and children plus home is a woman's primary fantasy not a man's.
People (mostly women) say that their sexual past is none of their partners business . And guess what- Committment from him is none of the woman's business. If a man cannot handle the truth he should move on. If he is lied to he should be allowed to divorce that woman. Sorry one good turn deserves another.


----------

