# Reconciliation Mike's



## KC7NOA

Like so many before me I'm starting a thread in the reconciliation section of the form.

About 5 months ago it started. My wife told me that she wanted a separation .... then 2 days later she didn't.

Now I'm having a hard time remembering the exact sequence of events but I think it was three weeks later two weeks into a job I had just started. She told me that she wanted a divorce.

Maybe she didn't really want a divorce or maybe I was able to talk her into doing a six-month separation and see how we feel afterwards. 

We have 2 kids together .... E is 4yr old and Ro is 9 yr old ....
I love my kids dearly.

I think my wife tried to show me love for 2 years after she no longer felt love for me and I had was apathy and emotional neglect of her. 

I'm trying to reconnect with her still ...I can give her back rubs and foot massages ....

I think i have finally reached a point of emotionall control to not keep wanting to talk to her about our relationship when we meet.

I've started working on myself physically someone emotionally by starting with Mort Fortel's marriage fitness program ....

It's kind of helping me but I think that I'm a Dullard, I'm having a hard time coming up with more talk charge ideas....

I have also bought divorce Buster's book and has yet to arrive.

I'm not sure if she's having an affair with her very long-term friend "J" .... but I'm starting to believe that they are just friends but nothing I can really verify -- they just spent the weekend over and Bellingham together looking at a business and she rented a two bedroom suite--- not verified and I'm not going to bother to try because it doesn't make any difference.

After she told me that she wanted a divorce she spent almost every weekend over at J house... I would guess that yes there is some emotional infidelity going on there but then again they have been friends before I met my wife and we've been married for 10 years.

She does tell me that she loves me but she's not in love with me ..... and I also think that she's confused about love in the same sense the way that the mort fertel describes. Not that it changes the situation any I suppose.

So anyways this is just the start of my thread and there's a lot of background I suppose I still need to fill in but that's as far as I'm going to go with today.


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## Malaise

KC7NOA said:


> Like so many before me I'm starting a thread in the reconciliation section of the form.
> 
> About 5 months ago it started. My wife told me that she wanted a separation .... then 2 days later she didn't.
> 
> Now I'm having a hard time remembering the exact sequence of events but I think it was three weeks later two weeks into a job I had just started. She told me that she wanted a divorce.
> 
> Maybe she didn't really want a divorce or maybe I was able to talk her into doing a six-month separation and see how we feel afterwards.
> 
> We have 2 kids together .... E is 4yr old and Ro is 9 yr old ....
> I love my kids dearly.
> 
> I think my wife tried to show me love for 2 years after she no longer felt love for me and I had was apathy and emotional neglect of her.
> 
> I'm trying to reconnect with her still ...I can give her back rubs and foot massages ....
> 
> I think i have finally reached a point of emotionall control to not keep wanting to talk to her about our relationship when we meet.
> 
> I've started working on myself physically someone emotionally by starting with Mort Fortel's marriage fitness program ....
> 
> It's kind of helping me but I think that I'm a Dullard, I'm having a hard time coming up with more talk charge ideas....
> 
> I have also bought divorce Buster's book and has yet to arrive.
> 
> *I'm not sure if she's having an affair with her very long-term friend "J" .... but I'm starting to believe that they are just friends but nothing I can really verify -- they just spent the weekend over and Bellingham together looking at a business and she rented a two bedroom suite--- not verified and I'm not going to bother to try because it doesn't make any difference.
> *
> 
> 
> If you don't think it makes a difference then you can't be more wrong. She won't reconnect with you if she's connected to him
> 
> 
> After she told me that she wanted a divorce she spent almost every weekend over at J house... *I would guess that yes there is some emotional infidelity going on there *but then again they have been friends before I met my wife and we've been married for 10 years.
> 
> "some" emotional infidelity ? You aren't sure? Or that it's gone physical?
> 
> *She does tell me that she loves me but she's not in love with me *..... and I also think that she's confused about love in the same sense the way that the mort fertel describes. Not that it changes the situation any I suppose.
> 
> So anyways this is just the start of my thread and there's a lot of background I suppose I still need to fill in but that's as far as I'm going to go with today.
> 
> OP ignore the red flags of infidelity at your peril. All the signs are there, and you can't, or won't see it.


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## KC7NOA

At this point I'm not really sure if I should talk to her or demand that she tell me she's been unfaithful with him. I've actually already done once and she said that there's nothing going on (3 weeks ago).... 

I'm not blind to the possibility I'm just accepting --
at the moment--- that I can't change anything about it.

I also thought about just kicking his ass right there but that would get me nothing positive. 

Last night I had the kids and I was supposed to leave the house before my wife and J got there but decided to stay. My daughter got hurt in a sledding accident ,just a little banged up and she wanted to show her mom how she looked and tell her about the fun that she had. I was very cordial I shake J's hand . She got me alone and told me that she was mad at me for being there that you didn't want me to get weird like I had before , i told her that she's the one that was being weird "after all you guys are just friends".


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## Malaise

OP

You don't have a chance to R if she's in an affair.

Bottom line.

She needs to end it with him if you have any hope.

( Yes, she's in an affair with 'J' )


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## Malaise

KC7NOA said:


> At this point I'm not really sure if I should talk to her or demand that she tell me she's been unfaithful with him. I've actually already done once and she said that there's nothing going on (3 weeks ago)....
> 
> Cheaters lie. It's their job description.
> 
> 
> . I was very cordial I shake J's hand .
> 
> What do you imagine he thinks of you?


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## Marc878

KC7NOA said:


> At this point I'm not really sure if I should talk to her or demand that she tell me she's been unfaithful with him. I've actually already done once and she said that there's nothing going on (3 weeks ago)....
> 
> Cheaters lie a lot
> 
> I'm not blind to the possibility I'm just accepting --
> at the moment--- that I can't change anything about it.
> 
> Your passivity and weakness will make this situation worse
> 
> I also thought about just kicking his ass right there but that would get me nothing positive.
> 
> Last night I had the kids and I was supposed to leave the house before *my wife and J got there* but decided to stay. My daughter got hurt in a sledding accident ,just a little banged up and she wanted to show her mom how she looked and tell her about the fun that she had. I was very cordial *I shake J's hand* . She got me alone and told me that she was mad at me for being there that you didn't want me to get weird like I had before , i told her that she's the one that was being weird "after all you guys are just friends".


You should have never left your home. She is using the separation for J and you are acting like a total doormat. Shook his hand??? 

Trying to nice her back never works. It makes you look like a weak puppy while J stands tall.

Why are you in total submission to your wife and her boyfriend?

Your actions around this will cause you a lot more needless pain and suffering because you aren't man enough to stand up and do what's needed.

They are going to destroy you, your family and future while you stand idly by and do nothing. Actually your actions are telling them yore ok with what they're doing.

It amazes me that a man would do what you are doing.

You need to wake the hell up here.


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## Marc878

Move back to your home and let her move out if that's what she wants.

I'd see J and tell him to keep the hell out of my life and family or suffer the consequences.

What do you think your kids are going to think of you when they grow up?

Not to mention your family and friends. A blind man could see what your are refusing to look at objectively. 

Wake up or suffer the consequences of your lack of action


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## oldshirt

KC7NOA said:


> My wife told me that she wanted a separation .... then 2 days later she didn't.
> 
> She told me that she wanted a divorce.
> 
> 
> they just spent the weekend over and Bellingham together looking at a business and she rented a two bedroom suite--- not verified
> 
> After she told me that she wanted a divorce she spent almost every weekend over at J house...
> 
> they have been friends before I met my wife
> 
> She does tell me that she loves me but she's not in love with me .
> 
> .


These are all classic, classic signs of an affair straight out of the Cheaters Handbook. 

They are absolutely having an affair and no matter what you do, you can never reconcile into a healthy and happy marriage if the WS is still involved and in contact with the AP.

Your back rubs and foot massages are no match for their New Relationship Energy and multiple orgasms and hot, sweaty, passionate porn sex. 

The only reason she is around at all is because he has not committed to take her full time yet and you are providing comfort and support a back up and soft landing pad if their relationship tanks. 

You are her back up plan and Plan B in case things don't work out with the OM. 

We all make a lot of mistakes so I am not trying to rub salt into your wounds or point fingers, but all your separation did was provide them a perfect probationary period to test drive their relationship and have a lot of hot, monkey sex. 

You were playing soft-ball and it got you burned. 

If someone is having serious doubts about staying in the marriage and considering divorce, you give them two options. 

Behind Door #1 is a chance at working out the issues but to choose that option they must remain in the home and devote 100% commitment to working on the marriage and must cut off any 3rd parties completely and go cold turkey. 

Behind Door #2 is an immediate and fair and cooperative divorce so that each party is free to carry on with their own life as they see fit for them. 

What you have allowed to occur is she and the OM have been getting it on and developing their relationship while you are sitting home wringing your hands and losing sleep and giving her back and foot rubs in hopes of her returning to the marriage. 

You have been played and have been chumped. 

Velcro your balls back on. Re-implant that spine and draw a line in the sand and enforce your boundaries and take your life back.


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## Marc878

You are going to read books, etc while your house is burning down? You can't control your wife or her boyfriend but you can control yourself. Books, etc aren't going to fix this got you. You have to do it.

How do you do that? Stand up for yourself and control YOU and your half of YOUR family. Just stand up and refuse to be **** on. That's what you're getting here.

The Calvary isn't coming man. Waiting around hoping or reading books will make this ****ty situation worse.


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## Marc878

How do you get to be a chump?

By allowing it. Usually by living in fear.

Don't worry about pushing her farther away. She's already gone.

About the only thing that could bring her back now is you standing up for yourself. IMO I'd file for D immediately. Let her **** or get off the pot.

Weakness is a very unattractive trait. That's all you're showing her. Do you think her or J have one ounce of respect for you?

Better replace your fear with some anger. Take charge!!! Now!!!!


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## Marc878

Do yourself a big favor. Download and read "No More Mr Nice Guy" free PDF. It's a short read. Then start applying it immediately.


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## oldshirt

here are some responses to your points in bold below.




KC7NOA said:


> At this point I'm not really sure if I should talk to her or demand that she tell me she's been unfaithful with him.
> 
> *Dude, wake the fk up. They are together. She is just using your denial and naivette' to shore up their relationship so that she makes a smooth and seemless transition from the marriage into their relationship. *
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually already done once and she said that there's nothing going on (3 weeks ago)....
> 
> *She lied. Cheaters lie about just about everything. Ask me how much money I make and it is just as easy for the words, "a million dollars a year" to come out of my mouth than it is to say the actual amount. And since you are in such deep denial and want to hear her say they are "just friends" that that is what she says so that you get off her back and go back to your own business. *
> 
> I'm not blind to the possibility I'm just accepting --
> at the moment--- that I can't change anything about it.
> 
> *That is simply denial, passivity and weakness on your part. *
> 
> I also thought about just kicking his ass right there but that would get me nothing positive.
> 
> *it may have got you your @$$ whupped and landed you in jail and perhaps even get you a criminal conviction that would negatively impact your custody case - but it would have at least been taking a stand and taking some action. Even if you got your @$$ handed to you (cause I have the feeling you are not much of a fighter) it would have at least shown her that you weren't falling for this "just friends" BS and that you were willing to stand and fight. Weakness and passivity always loses when competing for a WW. *
> 
> I was very cordial I shake J's hand .
> 
> *Look up the term cuckold. that is what you are allowing yourself to be. You might as well suck his #%@ next time. *
> 
> 
> She got me alone and told me that she was mad at me for being there.
> 
> *You are allowing your fear of upsetting and angering her to govern your actions. This is turning you into a cuckold and chump and is digging yourself into the hole of despair even deeper. STOP THAT! Do what you have to do to protect your property, financial assets, relationship with your children and your dignity and self respect as a human being and a man. .....even if it upsets and/or angers her.
> 
> Your weakness and passivity and fear are your own worst enemies here.
> 
> Put your balls and your spine back and get some resolve. Even if it upsets people and makes them angry with you.
> 
> And please please please, the next time your buddy "J" comes into your house to take your children, Sucker punch him in the stomach so hard it drops him to the floor puking his guts out. Gut punches don't leave marks or evidence. It would just be your word against his and hers and you can play the "they are just trying to make me look bad" card. *


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## anchorwatch

Been on the forums a very long time. I know plenty of men who have tried Mort Fortel's (money making) program and have never seen it work. Ask squid1035 how it worked for him.

Your wife has replaced you with her friend. It's so obvious, you don't see it because you're still in the shock and denial stages. 

I will say that making yourself a better whole integrated and self-confident individual is a good thing, but that has nothing to do with your wife. It should be solely for you!

I know what we all are saying is contrary to what you are thinking, but take heed of what you are being told

Here are some links...

"I'm a Nice Guy, the nicest guy you'd ever want to meet. Why doesn't she want me?"

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Simple 180

Best


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## Thor

I suggest you get your username changed for privacy.


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## Lostinthought61

Dude you are being used and you just don't realize it. File


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## oldshirt

Lostinthought61 said:


> Dude you are being used and you just don't realize it. File


He realizes it. But at the moment he is paralyzed with fear of upsetting her and driving her away. He is in the middle of the "Pick Me! Dance" and he fears if he upsets her or angers her or hurts her feelings in anyway that it will drive her away for good. 

He is also in his own state of denial because if he acknowledges the reality, then he will have to do something about it. If he does something about it, that will cause change and upheaval and will step on some toes and make her and some other people upset with him. 

"Nice Guys" aren't actually nice. They are conflict avoidant. They will allow the house to burn down because they don't want to get anything wet putting the fire out.


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## chillymorn69

Shes banging him with out a doubt!

Stay in your home tell her no more comunicating with this asshat. Call a lawyer start getting your ducks lined up.

If her cheating is a deal breaker file asap. Then just comunicate when you have to.

Your right and shes wrong theres never an acceptable reason to cheat. Your dealing with a lyer and a cheater you can not trust a thing she says ever!


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## KC7NOA

How many of you in this thread have actually reconciled their marriage?


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## anchorwatch

KC7NOA said:


> How many of you in this thread have actually reconciled their marriage?


More than 40 years and solid... we have been to the edge of the cliff and back... it takes two to do that! 

Listen closely, you can't reconcile a marriage if your spouse is in an affair. Period! Nothing works until infidelity ends. Nothing you do can change her mind, only she can do that. You can, however, change your behavior. 

You will understand when you stop hoping for reconciliation and start realizing you will be okay even without her in your life.


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## Marc878

KC7NOA said:


> How many of you in this thread have actually reconciled their marriage?


You can't do a thing until the affair ends. It's a worthless endeavor to put the cart before the horse at this time.

The longer you wait, take no action the more bonded they'll become.

Better wake up!!!!


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## oldshirt

KC7NOA said:


> How many of you in this thread have actually reconciled their marriage?


You'll have to define what 'reconciliation' means to you. 

If reconciliation to you means that people simply do not divorce and have their clothes and the children under the same roof, but are emotionally and sexually detached and there is an underlying current of resentment and dissatisfaction and there is still a degree of infidelity taking place over time; there are probably a good number of them out there. 

But if reconciliation means a healthy, happy, loving and completely monogamous relationship without an underlying level of resentment and contempt, it is a far, far lower number. 

It happens. They are out there. 

But none and I do mean *NONE* of them achieved that level of health and happiness by being passive and by not angering or upsetting their WS. 

Every last single one of them took a hard stand against being BS'd and manipulated and all of them blew up the affair and tossed their WS out into the street and did not allow them back into the marital home until they completely cut it off with the AP and committed 100% to long term MC and long term heavy lifting to repair the damage that they had done. 

Many kicked the AP's @$$ (some figuratively, some literally) and all of them exposed the affair to the AP's BS and exposed the affair to the WS's family and to their employer if it was a workplace affair. 

The BSs blew up the WS's and AP's fantasy world. The BSs upset and angered the WSs terribly. 

The BS drew up strength inside themselves they didn't know they had and they all were ready, willing and able to divorce instantly if the WS stepped out of line. 

Many actually *did divorce* and then later after the WS had done a lot of therapy and work on themselves and had spent a long period of time not dating anyone and working on themselves, they began dating all over again. 

That is what the people that had healthy and at least somewhat happy reconciliations did.


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## Marc878

The truth is often harsh but make no mistake this is where you are at this time.

You need reality. I do hope you wake up and understand where you are.

No one can fix this for you. It will be totally up to you.

Good luck


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## KC7NOA

anchorwatch said:


> More than 40 years and solid... we have been to the edge of the cliff and back... it takes two to do that!
> 
> Listen closely, you can't reconcile a marriage if your spouse is in an affair. Period! Nothing works until infidelity ends. Nothing you do can change her mind, only she can do that. You can, however, change your behavior.
> 
> You will understand when you stop hoping for reconciliation and start realizing you will be okay even without her in your life.


This i do agree with ..... the infidelity must end.


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## Openminded

Yes, it's very likely she's having an affair with him. 

You definitely aren't reconciling at this point -- that takes two people dedicated to making the marriage work and that's not what you're dealing with. 

Wake up.


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## oldshirt

oldshirt said:


> That is what the people that had healthy and at least somewhat happy reconciliations did.


Now let's compare and contrast that with the people that took the passive approach and did the "Pick Me! Dance" and did their best to "nice" their way into their WS's good graces and tip-toed through to the tulips to avoid angering and upsetting their WS and the AP.

I won't lie, there are many of them that are still legally married and still living under the same roof; but here is a glimpse into what their daily life looks like. 

The WW has virtually no respect, attraction or desire for them. They either do not have sex with the BH at all, or if they do it is duty or starfish sex where they lay there with their arms and legs splayed out and they watch tv or look at the clock every few seconds and keep saying to hurry up and get it over with. 

The WW have an underlying resentment and bitterness because in her mind, staying with the BH is keeping her from her true soulmate. 

And in many cases the WW is still hooking up with the OM either on the down low but if the BH is weak and passive enough, she pretty sees the OM openly. 

She will get all dressed up and polished up to go see the OM and she will give the BH a honey-do list of household chores to do and to watch the kids while she has wild, porno sex with the OM and brings home her semen stained underwear for him to launder. 

The BH also has an underlying and on going resentment and bitterness towards her as well. And if she does offer up some monthly duty sex to keep him off her back, he is often emasculated and humiliated enough and has enough distrust and resentment towards her that he cannot even get it up which further decreases her view of him in her eyes and makes the OM seem even more virile and enticing. 

Every time the WW is out the house, the BH can only play mind movies in his head of what kind of nasty, sweaty sex she may be having at that moment. 

He is broken and emasculated and is an empty shell of a man but yet still remains paralyzed with fear of doing anything about it for fear of angering or upsetting her and causing her to leave. 

This is the life of the men that choose to try to appease and comfort their cheating wives and did the "Pick Me! Dance." 

They can say that "saved their marriage" because technically they are not divorced. 

But they are cuckolds that tidy up the house and babysit the kids while their WW is having hot, sweaty, passionate sex with the OM and then bringing home semen stained clothes for him to launder and having the OM's semen leak out of her and onto the marital bed 2 feet from where he sleeps. 

That is the life of passive BH that remains with the WW.


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## Marc878

It would be best to start off your comeback with exposure. Can you hire a PI for a week?

I suppose you don't have access to phone bills, email, etc or any way to get a voice activated recorder in her car?

That's the problem with jumping up and leaving your home.

An affair is secretive and thrives when it's hidden and in the dark. When you expose it with the truth it usually will end it. Is J married?

You need a solid plan and then you need to execute.

Is J staying in your home with your wayward wife?


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## VibrantWings

I do tend to agree, that you are most likely in shock and trying to wrap your head around it all. I can sympathize with you and commend you for treading lightly until you get your second wind.

As a woman, I'm going to point out a strange thing about your post. You're with your kids, the woman that is still legally your wife comes in with another man....and is mad at you for being there. He's not her brother, father, cousin, etc. WHY is it okay for him to go into your home with your kids and you get told you have no right to be there? Did it get hard to breath? Probably because she just stepped all over you. I'm twice divorced and I NEVER would have shown up with another guy in the early stages of separation...friendship or not. It just sounds....wrong....so very wrong. 

That part stinks to me....and you need to re-think that handshake. Perhaps, you don't want to fight with him. Sometimes fighting just isn't worth it. But the others are right about setting some boundaries. If you suspect they are fooling around, then you need to set the rule that he's not allowed to come to the house when YOU are there. Spending weekends at his house? Over night? Does his Mom or some other woman live there? Did she do that before all this started? I've never met any of the people you are talking about so I try to reserve judgment but if it smells like ****....


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## KC7NOA

Honestly .... right now im thinking of moving back in ..... 

Im not sure i can break my lease yet .....

I'm looking for help from from the position that I am in now. Not just walk up and say let's get a divorce immediately you hoo bag.

DB is in the mail ....
I do have Mort Fertel marrige fitness in hand .... and I'm looking for more talk charge ideas.


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## KC7NOA

Marc878 said:


> It would be best to start off your comeback with exposure. Can you hire a PI for a week?
> 
> I suppose you don't have access to phone bills, email, etc or any way to get a voice activated recorder in her car?
> 
> That's the problem with jumping up and leaving your home.
> 
> An affair is secretive and thrives when it's hidden and in the dark. When you expose it with the truth it usually will end it. Is J married?
> 
> You need a solid plan and then you need to execute.
> 
> Is J staying in your home with your wayward wife?


J is not married and not staying at our house .... 
She usually goes to priest lake for the weekend at J's place on the water


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## Marc878

You should have never moved out in the first place. Never leave your home. No warning it's your home too. Just do it.

The separation was to spend more time with j while you help pay the bills.

You are financing her affair. Protect your assets. Bank accounts, etc.

You are babysitting while she and j date.


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## Marc878

KC7NOA said:


> Honestly .... right now im thinking of moving back in .....
> 
> Im not sure i can break my lease yet .....
> 
> I'm looking for help from from the position that I am in now. Not just walk up and say let's get a divorce immediately you hoo bag.
> 
> DB is in the mail ....
> I do have Mort Fertel marrige fitness in hand .... and I'm looking for more talk charge ideas.


You need proof of the affair for exposure. Can you get a PI? Voice activated recorder in her car, recovered text messages from her phone?

Start digging. 

Waiting fir or reading a book isn't going to fix this for you. Hard 180 except got the kids.

The chances of R now is probably slim. You've let this go too long already. 

Look up affair exposure online.


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## Marc878

You'd better get strong quick. You'll need it. Waiting around letting her tell you what to do and when to do it has put you in a losing position. 

Quit letting your weakness define you.

Better get moving and cut out the damn doormat attitude.


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