# my wife's emotional affair



## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

My wife and I have been married for almost five years. We have a two year old daughter. I have tried to be a supportive husband and recently supported my wife when she asked to audition for an amateur show at a local community theater. She got a part and had rehearsal two nights a week, during which time I stayed at home with our daughter while she slept.

Turns out that my wife cheated on me with an actor from that show. She wouldn't have even had the opportunity to meet him had I not shown my support and encouraged her to pursue this hobby knowing that it was something she enjoys. She has not slept with him, but has had hour long conversations with him every night after I've been asleep as I found out when I got my last phone bill. In fact, two weeks after these conversations started, she told me she wanted a divorce and asked me to leave our bedroom and to sleep in the guest room. Now she has been having those conversations with him from our bedroom every night. 

We are in couples therapy and since I have found out, she has agreed to end things with the other guy in order to give our relationship one final shot, but she doesn't feel connected to me. She felt like she could tell this new guy anything and that she couldn't tell me anything. She wants a relationship that is free, easy, open, laughing etc... How can we can get that back when things are now so awkward between us because of her betrayal?

I want to be there for her and let her know that she can tell me anything, but at a time like this, I know that what she is really feeling is a sense of loss and missing her affair man who she would not be breaking it off with if it weren't for me and my daughter. I don't want to tell her she can talk to me about anything, only to then blow up and get mad if she does open up to me and tell me that what she is really thinking about is him. I worry that as we work on things, she will begrudge me for keeping her from where she really seems to want to be. How can I ask her to tell me what she's thinking and open up to me when I know that her telling me what she's really feeling is not something I want to hear?

She says that I didn't pay enough attention to her during our marriage, listen enough, appreciate her enough, do romantic things for her enough, cuddle with her enough, but now she says she wants space. It's like she is setting me up for failure because she no longer wants those things from me. If I give her space, she will be as lonely as she was with me before, but if I woo her, it seems forced and contrived to her when I went so long without doing those things enough.

The worst part is that women want a man who is strong and confident and I was that man when we met. But her betrayal has stripped me of that confidence which makes it so hard for me to come across as the strong and confident yet caring man that I know she wants.

I'm sorry to ramble, but even waking up and going to work and getting through each day is such a struggle right now. We're each in individual therapy in addition to couples therapy.

Is it worth working on our relationship when she is saying things like she doesn't feel connected to me, attracted to me, in love with me, feels like she's "done" or do I just let her go an move on?


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

well for starters know that waywards tend to re-write marital history and blameshift their cheating towards their spouses in order to justify the cheating

in order for you to get past this you have to get the following or else it won't work


1) No contact whatsoever with the OM, in fact have her hand write a no contact letter and mail it to him via registered mail. If he contacts her then she must ignore him and tell you about it right away. OM has to be completely cut from her life, so he she is with an acting troupe and he is there then she must go, also block him from facebook, etc
2) she must be completely transparent, she must allow you access to her phone, emails, passwords, facebook etc Her privacy is now null and void. You should also (without telling her) use spy tech like keyloggers and gps to verify her actions
3) she must show 100% true remorse and own up to the affair completely. She must answer any and all questions repeatedly and truthfully. She must realize that this is her fault and while you have problems in the marriage, you cant work on them until you get past this.

also- is OM married, if so tell his wife right away without telling your wife you are doing it


if you cant get these conditions filled then you don't have much of a chance for a good reconciliation


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Also, realize that an EA is about chemicals in the brain. Until your wife goes complete NC and goes through withdrawal for some number of weeks, maybe two months you will not be able to work much on your marriage. She is in the fog.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Your wife is being sweet talked, and paid attention to, and whether you wanna hear it or not---this may have gone physical

you were never at the theatre---how do you know what REALLY went on---YOU DON'T

All of a sudden your wife wants a new life----GIVE IT TO HER

She wants out----pack up her belongings, and tell her go live with the actor

The actor is nothing but a scumbag, who wants an easy piece with your wife---and he got it----believe me he makes probably very little money, and her life with him would be a mess----let her see that life with unstable "bad boys" ain't so great---in fact it is usually pretty crappy---give her a good solid dose of that crappy life---

Give her a hard dose of reality---cut the counseling, and tell her you are filing for divorce---and she is now responsible, for financing herself in:re EVERYTHING------food, mtg., utilities, insurances, car, child support

LET HER SEE WHAT LIFE W/OUT YOU WOULD BE LIKE

She will wake up, and come back so fast----you just have to call her bluff---whatever you do, do not give in to her about anything----hold your ground---she wants to go---welcome her OUT THE DOOR


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

When you say she has agreed to end things, does that mean she has ended contact and become transparent with phones and email and where she is?

Her responses sound like someone deep in a lasting affair, not some recent hookup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Nobody is perfect and unless she was very vocal to you about how unappreciated and neglected you were making her feel, there were other options she could have taken such as suggesting that the two of you seek couples counseling and if you refused to do it, she then could have proceeded with separation and subsequently divorce. *Because she did have other options, she is solely responsible for her affair*.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks for the advice everybody.
The other guy is married too. She has no desire to simply move out and move in with him. We have a daughter and he lives with his wife. She literally says that her EA "filled a need" for her where she felt she could talk free and open and about anything. I'm not sure what I did to make her not feel that she could talk that way with me. I understand that she is responsible for the affair, but affairs (any type) happen when a person has to fill a need that their partner is not filling, and that is my own shortcoming.

As for transparency. She has blocked him on facebook and she even changed her phone number so that he wouldn't be able to contact him. She showed me her breakup letter and those things. However, I do not want to use spytech or a PI to spy on her. She says she wants to work on this and we have agreed that we have a common goal to be open and honest. 

I told her that I will understand if after months of working on this together if she doesn't fall in love with me again. But I feel like I need to try and trust her. If she betrays that trust again and doesn't end it with her OM, then I will want out myself because I deserve someone who loves me and who I have a free and open relationship with where I feel like I can trust that person the way I used to trust my wife.

If we are open and honest, things will work for the best. Either, we'll honestly fall back in love, or we won't in which case we will separate and eventually find other people who make us truly happy. 

She has even said that she could "settle" and stay with me because we have a house and a daughter, and I don't abuse her or anything like that. I told her that I would never want her to stay with me as a favor. I want her to be happy. Obviously I hope that can be with me, but she agrees that she can only know for sure if she cuts OM out completely. She has agreed to do that and I have to trust that. Spying on her doesn't do anything to help rebuild trust.

As for the "fog". I like that. I understand that in these first few weeks or months that she is going to be grieving the loss of her EA and that she will be thinking about him to a point where it will be impossible for her to see me who is right in front of her.

My only worry is time. I worry that she may decide in these next two months that she has tried as hard as she can and simply doesn't want to anymore. I hope she gives it enough time to really be over him and try to see me again.

She has done research that shows that a divorce before a child turns 3 is less traumatic because they don't remember. I would hate for our child's age (2 and a half) to be the ticking time bomb for her in terms of how much time she is willing to put in to us.

But again, at the end of the day, if she gives up, then I deserve better. I want so badly for our marriage to be what it once was and I actually want it to be better than before. I've had an eye-opening experience during this time and really can see the ways in which I wasn't there for her when she needed me. 

I just really hope I'm not too late in making changes to be the man I know I can be and the one that she deserves. 

But there are deep wounds that take time to heal, on both sides and we can't reconcile unless those wounds are healed and forgiven. We each have to forgive each other and ourselves. If we eventually get to here we are good again, I will have to forgive her for the affair and forgive myself for my shortcomings that led her to it. She will have to forgive me for the things I did that hurt her and forgive herself for her affair. 

I just wish I knew. I just wish I could see a year into the future and see where we were. I would feel so much more at ease if I simply knew how this was going to end, but I know that I have to be patient and live day to day as best I can.

Thanks for the support.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

The reluctance to verify through spy tech is not good imo, it's part of the healing process for you to be able to trust again. Simply just trusting won't work down the line, it's akin to rug sweeping and ignoring the problem.


also- tell the OMW asap- she simply deserves to know


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to reach out to the ome and close the loop. There is hoping she stays, and there is being passive. This is your marriage and family. Fight for them.

Knowledge is the best weapon in the fight.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

1. Contact the OM's wife
2. Have her leave the bedroom. Why should you move out of the bedroom if she is the one having an affair? You are way too accommodating.


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## ArmyofJuan (Dec 29, 2010)

MGKR said:


> We are in couples therapy and since I have found out, she has agreed to end things with the other guy in order to give our relationship one final shot, but she doesn't feel connected to me.


And she is not going to until you reject her like she has rejected you.




> How can I ask her to tell me what she's thinking and open up to me when I know that her telling me what she's really feeling is not something I want to hear?


Understand that right now she sees you as the enemy to her happiness, she isn't going to want anything to do with you as long as she is longing for the OM.



> She says that I didn't pay enough attention to her during our marriage, listen enough, appreciate her enough, do romantic things for her enough, cuddle with her enough, but now she says she wants space.


Typical blame shifting, she doesn't want to deal with the fact she is doing something wrong so she is making stuff up to justify herself. Ignore this.



> It's like she is setting me up for failure because she no longer wants those things from me. If I give her space, she will be as lonely as she was with me before, but if I woo her, it seems forced and contrived to her when I went so long without doing those things enough.


Right now the only option is give her space, anything good you do for her will seem fake to her anyway and besides, she has already checked out emotionally so its a waste of time.



> The worst part is that women want a man who is strong and confident and I was that man when we met. But her betrayal has stripped me of that confidence which makes it so hard for me to come across as the strong and confident yet caring man that I know she wants.


Being caring right now will only work against you, you need to earn her respect back by taking care of yourself and showing her that you don't need her. By being caring you will actually be enabling the affair and pushing her away. Show confidence by focusing on yourself and your needs, tell her she's right, you were not a good enough husband and she should leave to find someone better. Then you can find someone that won't cheat. She won't like that and you'll find the harder you try to get rid of her, the more she will fight to stay.



> Is it worth working on our relationship when she is saying things like she doesn't feel connected to me, attracted to me, in love with me, feels like she's "done" or do I just let her go an move on?


You have to move on, the more you try to "work" on the M, the more you will end up sabotaging yourself. When you stop working on the M and work on yourself then things will start to go your way.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

You really should be verifying her commitment to you and the marriage. We've seen on theses threads more times than not the LS trusting their DS blindly after d-day only to have the affair go underground.

You both have a common goal of being open and honest? Wasn't that your common goal on the day you got married? She's already violated your trust and doesn't deserve it until she shows through her actions that she's really on the same page with you again. Due to the nature of EAs, it will be very difficult for her to keep NC.

It sounds like your wife was very heavy into an EA with the OM, this will not be easy for her to get over. You need to be vigilant, because she will crave the attention _he_ gave to her and the attention won't be the same coming from you. It's an addiction and it doesn't go away just because the DS says they'll stop. 

I'm so sorry you have to go through this, but stay vigilant and keep digging. Your wife states the affair was not physical, but be braced for the fact that most DS's trickle truth and it's very possible she had a PA too. Especially if she hasn't been sleeping with you, it's possible it was her way of being faithful to the OM.

Please tell the OMW, because it increases your chances of saving your marriage. The OM will be busy saving his own marriage and will most likely toss aside your wife. Don't tell your wife you're doing this, she will want to protect the OM. She'll also realize that by exposing to the OMW, the affair will most likely be truly dead and no longer an option. She'll may be furious with you for exposing, but that's evidence of a DS who wasn't really ready to recommit. They're loyalities are with the OM. 

Be aware of your wife and if you think she is truly remorseful. A remoseful spouse who wants to commit will be willing to do anything to save the marriage. They'll offer to expose to the world, they'll get tested for STD's, they'll take a polygraph, they'll reveal all passwords, they'll offer to be GPS tracked, they'll take all blame for the actual affair . . . these are indicators you have a spouse who is serious about saving the marriage. If the DS balks at anything you need to heal, blameshifts, gets defensive, and trickle truths . . . it is not a good sign.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Never make a deal with a wayward ; your making many classic mistakes a newly betrayed spouse makes:

Contact his wife and let her know of the affair, do not tell your wife.
Do not accept your wife's NC letter as you do not know if he received it or she diluted it 

No Contact Letter

Speak to her parents and ask for support explain why
Load keyloggers and snoop , this affair may well be deep underground 

Your are being far to nice , man up and insist on firm boundaries and full commitment from your wife to marriage recovery.

If she does not change run the 180
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vickyyy (Oct 28, 2011)

expose the affair to OM's wife, wife parents etc.
MAN UP.you deserve better life.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

By the way, your wife sounds like a classic cake eater. She wants you to support her and your daugher, but wants the OM for the thrill. If she's already saying she feels "done" with you, then start talking about what it will be like after divorce. 

Your wife is still in La-La-Fantasy Land with the OM in her mind, how they laughed and could be so open with each other. Once she puts child visitation, step-children, the OM paying alimony to his wife, her working full-time, and all the other baggage that comes with divorce into the fantasy he's playing a starring role . . . the fantasy becomes a dreary and unappealing reality. 

Best of course of action is to wake her up from the fog fantasy and show her the alpha male side of you she fell in love with when you were dating.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Feeling responsible because you assume a need was not being met is fine and dandy. There may be some small truth to this, but I emphasize small.

In reality even good marriages as vulnerable to affairs under the right circumstances. Affairs are fantasy. You have to meet a large number of of your wife's needs simultaneoulsy and do the heavy lifting. The OM does not have to provide anything but attention. he can be something you can never be. Not you. So keep in mind that him not being you is what he brings to the table. Not saying there is anything wrong with you. He can be a fantasy.

Women love attention from other men. How they deal with it is the issue. Men have their own challenges with other women.

While you can improve your relationship, you cannot control your wife. Her making poor choices is not your fault. You can help make your marriage less vulnerable to affairs but you cannot eliminate that. You cannot have 100% trust 100% of the time. That is naive, lazy and frankly just plain foolish. You have to watch out for your partner and they you. It is a fact of life. EAs can happen out of very innocent beginnings. They feel good so the person involved may not realize yhere is anything going on as they pass each boundary one by one.

I suggest that two do His Needs Her Needs as a couple and deiscuss, define and agree upon boundaries. EAs are very dangerous and are often fueled by poor boundaries.

Be aware that there will be history re-writing going on. And if you start to take on responsibility for causing her to strauy then she will let you. Ultimately that is counter productive.

Also see Married Man Sex Life

We have to have an optimal mix of Alpha and Beta behaviors as a good husband. The optimal mix depends much on the wife. It is a moving target.

What you do not want to be is the Beta guy at home watching the kids while your wife is out playing the Alpha guy. The Alpha guys feeds the dopamine. The In Love part.

Also be aware that durinf a marriage, EVERYONE falls out of being IN LOVE with their partner. EVERYONE. What has to occur is the renewing efforts to keep that alive. But obver the long haul, ten, twenty, thirty years and more, this happens. So my answer is to do the things that keeps you falling back in love. Have an affair with your wife.

I have decided to prioritize my relationship with my wife as follows:

1) Lover
2) Best female friend
3) Wife

Be aware there is oxitocin and dopamine. Oxytocin comes from closeness and Beta things. Feeling secure. Dopamine is that in love feeling. In a long term relationship you need both in balance. However, an OM needs to provide just enough oxytocin to get close, and then the dopamine kicks in. The dopamine is what has them isolating you from them and propels them to a PA.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Saffron said:


> By the way, your wife sounds like a classic cake eater. She wants you to support her and your daugher, but wants the OM for the thrill. If she's already saying she feels "done" with you, then start talking about what it will be like after divorce.
> 
> Your wife is still in La-La-Fantasy Land with the OM in her mind, how they laughed and could be so open with each other. Once she puts child visitation, step-children, the OM paying alimony to his wife, her working full-time, and all the other baggage that comes with divorce into the fantasy he's playing a starring role . . . the fantasy becomes a dreary and unappealing reality.
> 
> Best of course of action is to wake her up from the fog fantasy and show her the alpha male side of you she fell in love with when you were dating.


Absolutely. Man-up and fight for your wife. This is not the time to be the nice guy. She is not wanting the nice guy. She wants the guy that is taking her from you. Fight back. Hopefully you can stop this before it goes physical. A PA is a deal breaker for me anyway, so I would do all I could to stop the EA.

It all MUST be verifiable. Otherwise this is total FAIL. You can trust your wife to pursue the affair unless you take firm action and expose.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

Quote from someone before.....It sounds like your wife was very heavy into an EA with the OM, this will not be easy for her to get over. You need to be vigilant, because she will crave the attention he gave to her and the attention won't be the same coming from you. It's an addiction and it doesn't go away just because the DS says they'll stop. 

Ok, so here's the problem. If she is really having NC with her OM, you are right that she will crave the attention he gave her. so if I don't try nd step in and fill that void and show that I can give her that attention, and I give her space, won't she be so lonely that she'll run right back to him? I know the attention won't be the same coming from me, but you think I have a better shot abandoning her and leaving her completely alone?

If we're doing nothing at home,she'll say she wants to go out with her girlfriends and will probably let other guys hit on her at bars if she does. Although I guess if she does that, then she is really not putting in the effort that she says she wants to.

I don't understand why showing her that I can be different wouldn't help, but you are all right. The only two times she has shown any outward signs to want to keep us together are when I have screamed her head off after discovering some of her secrets.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

By the way, although she says she wants to work and try to see if things can be better, she doesn't want to stay because of circumstances. Yes, money will be tighter, we'll have to sell the house, she won't be able to do her theater because I won't be home watching our daughter sleep, but she says those are all circumstances. Tough ones, but not ones that she is going to use as reason to stay in a marriage. I agree with her on this. I don't want her to stay if she doesn't eventually fall in love with me again. I don't want her to stay with me as a favor or to settle with me. I deserve better than that.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MGKR said:


> Quote from someone before.....It sounds like your wife was very heavy into an EA with the OM, this will not be easy for her to get over. You need to be vigilant, because she will crave the attention he gave to her and the attention won't be the same coming from you. It's an addiction and it doesn't go away just because the DS says they'll stop.
> 
> Ok, so here's the problem. If she is really having NC with her OM, you are right that she will crave the attention he gave her. so if I don't try nd step in and fill that void and show that I can give her that attention, and I give her space, won't she be so lonely that she'll run right back to him? I know the attention won't be the same coming from me, but you think I have a better shot abandoning her and leaving her completely alone?
> 
> ...


Are you serious? Is she really like this or are you just assuming she will do this. If she really is one to go out to bars in search of attention from other men then you might just cut your losses with this woman. Yes, I understand you love her and want to make it right.

If she is really out of contact with the OM then she will withdraw from him. I would be more worried about her going out with the girls and contacting the OM.

She needs to see you as having higher value. Yes be cival to her but pursuing her is actully pushing her away. Yes this is counter-intuitive. Her affair must die and you need to look like a good option for her to stay. You catering her does not do this. You improving yourself and being happy and prepared to move on does. Yeah it sounds wrong but this is what it takes.
She needs to see you as exciting enough for her to pursue you.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

So tomorrow night is the night my daughter spends with my mother. My wife suggested we go to an early movie and then out to sing karaoke together? Are you all saying I should say no?


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

No - don't say no to this. 

the "180" is an attitude - one that exudes confidence and strength. Definitely date the wife - build intimacy - just don't be the needy half of the equation. 

just don't pursue her in any fashion - let her chase you.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

so let her drive the date tomorrow night. you may never know what will happen.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MGKR said:


> So tomorrow night is the night my daughter spends with my mother. My wife suggested we go to an early movie and then out to sing karaoke together? Are you all saying I should say no?


Not me. I say GO. Just be happy and confident fun to be around. Don't be wimpy or begging or all about the relationship. Be about having fun. Look your best. Don't overtly flirt but be receptive / friendly to other women. Smile. Be attractive as a man.


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## Marque (Nov 8, 2011)

if i was you this marriage would of been over by now


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

MGKR said:


> Quote from someone before.....*It sounds like your wife was very heavy into an EA with the OM, this will not be easy for her to get over. You need to be vigilant, because she will crave the attention he gave to her and the attention won't be the same coming from you. It's an addiction and it doesn't go away just because the DS says they'll stop*.
> 
> Ok, so here's the problem. If she is really having NC with her OM, you are right that she will crave the attention he gave her. so if I don't try nd step in and fill that void and show that I can give her that attention, and I give her space, won't she be so lonely that she'll run right back to him? I know the attention won't be the same coming from me, but you think I have a better shot abandoning her and leaving her completely alone?
> 
> ...


Regarding the quote from me bolded above, what I wanted to stress is to not assume she's gone NC. Affairs are hard to quit. To help her get past the fog and her addiction you will need to talk to her about the affair. You will have to hear the things you don't want to hear. If you want open and honest communication, then be mentally prepared for open and honest.

That doesn't mean you have to stroke her ego and make her feel like the EA is okay or that you wish you would've been there so she didn't cheat. When my H would have moments of missing the OW after d-day, I told him I loved him and understood it's hard to let go of the ego stroke. But I'd also tear him a new @hole for putting his ego and selfishness above our marriage and me. I can't describe it acurately, but you can be supportive to a DS without being a doormat. It's about being honest. He was honest about what he was feeling, but I was honest too and not about to bite my tongue when hurting.

In my mind the 180 is partly about knowing you can live without the DS and not being afraid of divorce. Self-confidence and self-respect from the LS can make a DS realize what they are close to loosing. But the whole point is the DS has to feel like they can truly loose you, otherwise they will continue to pine away for a fantasy. I agree with other posters that the 180 is about attitude. It's not ignoring your wife, but showing her that you will not accept anything less than you deserve.

Edit: I said my DS missed the OM, meant the OW. I'm the wife and LS.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

I'm not sure if it is the way that you projected your wife or something but something tells me that she is still lying/talking to the OM. Please do verify. You need it to protect yourself if she is a manipulator.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Marque said:


> if i was you this marriage would of been over by now


I second that. I was 5 or so when my parents divorced. I never had a problem with it. She's gone. You need to find something better. She has and will continue to look.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

The denial is strong with this one. The typical initial reaction a BS comes here with, even in the face of good advice. 

Look, you're getting great advice from those who have been in your shoes. Ignore it at your own peril. You think you're the only one who has gone through this? Think you're the only one with children caught in the middle? There's plenty of people here who have invested a hell a lot longer time more than you have, there's plenty of people who have more children than you. You're making all the classic mistakes, the main one being, that you want to sweep this under the rug. You want to be the one to fix your marriage when it's quite obvious that your WW isn't even 100% committed to the marriage. You want to fix your marriage? Then it takes BOTH partners being 100% committed to working on it. She's on the fence and non committal, while you want to be able to sweep this under the rug.

Sure she's shown you her phone AND you don't want to verify because you're just plain afraid of what you might find. Did you know the most common affair tools are the secret email accounts and the secret cell phone? By far, the most common thing the WS does after being confronted, is to take the affair underground, and judging by her non committal attittude, it seems likely. But oh no, you don't want to do that. You're content to sweep this under the rug and try to woo her back. It never works that way, but go ahead and try. It seems you need more pain before you can see the light. I normally post my usual advice, but you're one of the ones who are a little stubborn and need to be screwed over by the WS before seeing the light. Good luck in your rug sweeping and wooing her back. You'll be back.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks again for the feedback.
We are taking a trial separation. We had a rough couples therapy yesterday and both need some space. She needs to see what life is like without me and whether or not that is something she wants to fight for or if she is actually happier on her own. She will have no contact with OM during this time. She has given me full transparency, but really wants alone time to try and work on herself. I need the same time to see if I want to fight hard enough after her betrayal. So we'll see where we are in two weeks, but we are going to spend Thanksgiving with our respective parent and not together. It will work out for the best. Either she'll realize what she is missing and want me back and work to get me back, or she will realize that she is happier, less tense, without me. In that case, we both deserve better. We both do deserve to be happy and if we can't make each other happy than not only is reconciliation not possible, it's not even preferable.

Thanks everyone.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Your WWs affair is going exactly by the script. Trial separation means she wants to be with the OM with no distractions from you. Believe me, we've seen this many times before. The affair will actually heat up. She has given you full transparency to the accounts that you know of, not any of the secret ones she possibly has or will create. 

And how do you know she will have NC with the OM if you're separated? You will take her word for it? Seriously, please don't tell me you believe this.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Your WWs affair is going exactly by the script. Trial separation means she wants to be with the OM with no distractions from you. Believe me, we've seen this many times before. The affair will actually heat up. She has given you full transparency to the accounts that you know of, not any of the secret ones she possibly has or will create.
> 
> And how do you know she will have NC with the OM if you're separated? You will take her word for it? Seriously, please don't tell me you believe this.


Yes, a trial separation is often just an open marriage for at least one partner.

In your case it helps is Isolating the primary male and eliminate Approach Anxiety from the poaching male.

Her additional advantage is that she can still be supported by the primary male while she pursues her escapades with the OM unimpeded.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MGKR said:


> Thanks again for the feedback.
> We are taking a trial separation. We had a rough couples therapy yesterday and both need some space. She needs to see what life is like without me and whether or not that is something she wants to fight for or if she is actually happier on her own. *She will have no contact with OM during this time. She has given me full transparency, but really wants alone time to try and work on herself.* I need the same time to see if I want to fight hard enough after her betrayal. So we'll see where we are in two weeks, but we are going to spend Thanksgiving with our respective parent and not together. It will work out for the best. Either she'll realize what she is missing and want me back and work to get me back, or she will realize that she is happier, less tense, without me. In that case, we both deserve better. We both do deserve to be happy and if we can't make each other happy than not only is reconciliation not possible, it's not even preferable.
> 
> Thanks everyone.


You are being Isolated. It is step two of Instigation, Isolation, Escalation.

A shame you will will not be spending Thanksgiving together IMHO. I don't mean to be crude but it is highly likely she will be enjoying it with an OM.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

If by the remote chance that this hasn't gone PA, it soon will be under trial separation. I'll take that to the bank.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I haven't seen where you have let the other mans wife know has or wants to poke your wife. You seem to be batting zero on working to save your marriage.

If you would start reading the other threads at TAM you would soon recognize yourself and your wife. This stuff happens all the time here and many, such as yourself, drag their feet until its too late. I would wish you good luck but not even luck will help you now.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

Agreed. The only type of separation that should be tolerable from a marriage - is - wait for it .......... DIVORCE.

She wants a separation? Go ahead - give it to her with DIVORCE papers. She does the separation on her own dime too. 

Read the book Married Man Sex Life Primer. This is what Lord Mayhem and E3K are talking about. I can guarantee the concepts it refers to (like Instigation, Isolation, and Escalation) happen each and every time with an affair. 

Give OM a call and invite him to pick her up while you are at it. This is what trial separation will lead to. Or would you rather drop her off at his house?

Your choice.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Dadof3 said:


> Give OM a call and invite him to pick her up while you are at it. This is what trial separation will lead to. Or would you rather drop her off at his house?
> 
> Your choice.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

One hint for you: It's called security. It's what a woman wants and needs. Somehow, you aren't providing this for her. It's guarandamnteed that a trial separation will provide this for her (only security for the secrecy of her affair). What she needs right now are some marital boundaries. She'll kick and scream about them, but after she gets the confidence that you won't buckle from these boundaries, your marriage will turn a corner. 

Let her know that trial separation = divorce to you. And if she wants to continue, calmly (while whistling a happy tune) - help her pack the bags and call a cab (or the OM if you want to be helpful to her)


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

You have just agreed to your wife living like a single woman. She can now tell the OM she is "separated" and over the next 2 weeks the affair will escalate. This is such typical wayward behavior it's frustrating to see it happen yet again.

Your wife feels like she's been given her freedom for two weeks. If busted and you find out she had contact with the OM and/or it progressed to a PA, she will re-write history and use "but we were separated" as an excuse if she comes back. There will be no memory of promises to keep NC.

Sorry to sound harsh, but if you really want to save your marriage, handing your WW divorce papers would've been the better option. Instead you've handed her a two week pass, instead of a slap of reality in the face.

Tell the OMW, I'm starting to think it's your only hope.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

The odds are she will turn her "alone time" to bond further with Mr. Thespian.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

But, but, but, she said she will have NC with OM during this time!


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

I know there are pieces to this that you all think I'm not getting. First of all, she didn't want the separation. Our couples therapist suggested it because our conversations in there and also those on our own are so poison right now that they are driving us further apart. The way the past month has been at home, I don't want to be with her. I miss the times when we were happy and I know those may never return. These next few weeks apart will actually be a much needed breather from the unbelievable tension at home. 

As for the OM. She has been crying heavily over the fact that she has broken things off. One of the things that I blew up at her for was that she actually said, "I broke things off with someone that makes me happy for you and to give us one final chance." Is she kidding? Does she want a f-ckin medal for breaking off an affair? 

If she does take this separation as a chance to get back with the OM, then I will want out and will want and deserve something better. It's a test. I am perfectly atune to the the fact that she is likely to fail this test. I know her. She will not go back to the OM and keep it from me. She does not want to stay together with me only to have an affair. She feels terrible that she is having an affair. She wants a relationship that is happy enough where she doesn't feel that she needs to go elsewhere to get her emotional needs met. She wants us both to be happy. If she does go back with him, she'll tell me because she does want me to be happy and if she flies to him again, she will agree that I deserve better than her. 

I reacted much more positively to the separation suggestion than she did. She says she is scared. I know that she is not only scared of potentially losing me and living life without me for the next couple of weeks, or of only seeing our daughter half the time, but also scared of the very real possibility that over the next few weeks without me, that she won't miss me. She honestly says that she wants to miss me. She wishes that she felt the things for me that she feels for her OM. She simply doesn't. We both want each other to be happy and she doesn't think she can be happy with me again and after her betrayal, I don't think I can be either. She also doesn't think I can ever be happy with her again, which she might be right about. 

In other words, forget about whether reconciliation is possible anymore, I'm wondering if reconciliation is even preferable. As one of you said, if it were you, this marriage would already be over. It most likely will be. We are both 31 young and perfectly able to find new people who make us happy in time. She even admits that her OM will not be that person for her. He is married himself. She is not so delusional as to think that they will run off in the sunset. But she does know that she deserves to be happy and to be able to have a free, open, honest, trusting relationship. Neither of us are sure that can ever be with each other. That's what the separation is meant to do. 

She has taken responsibility for the affair. She's beating up the hell out of herself for it. She even has said it will be easier to eventually forgive me for my failures as a husband for years than it will be for her to forgive herself for the affair. 

I did have failures. I'm not justifying her affair. You all said that I need to reject her. I am doing that. She is upset at how ok I am with the separation. Only if I reject her might she eventually come crawling back. So now we'll see. She'll either come crawling back and we can work on our marriage (unlikely I know), or she won't in which case I deserve better and can leave this marriage with no regrets.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry to hear the counselor suggested a separation, I believe the odds of R after a separation are very low. Chances are your wife will fail the test and contact the OM. She is feeling weak and emotionally vulnerable, it's possible he will be the one she'll try to lean on during this time. Especially if his wife is unaware of the affair and he's still not being held accountable for his own bad behavior.

You are both young and it is a lot of effort to rebuild after infidelity, so I can see your point about not being sure you want to R. It's an emotional time and not easy. Good luck.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

One of them will FISH for renewed contact. It's damn near inevitable. In my situation, since I had transparency, I was able to intercept both OMs attempts to fish.


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## MGKR (Nov 14, 2011)

Her mother is her best friend. Even she told my wife that not only can there not be another man if she's trying to work on things with me, but that she has gone her whole life boyfriend to boyfriend to fill her needs and cover up her insecurities. My wife knows this and really says she wants to take time for herself and to be ok with herself. As I said, if it's all a bunch of more bull****, it'll be over, and I'll move on to better things. 

The only non favorable result that I could foresee is my wife saying after these two weeks that she wants to be back with me and then to continue the affair. I truly have faith that won't happen. If she does goes back with him, she'll tell me it's over with me so that I can move on with my life. She does honestly hate the fact that what she is doing is hurting me and hates herself for doing what she has done.

She always says she didn't tell me how she really felt about me for the past year (as long as she says she has been unhappy) and didn't tell me about the affair because she didn't want to hurt me. I have told her that all she can do to hurt me anymore than she already has is to lie. I would rather the truth, even if the truth is that she is in love with him and has used this separation time to reconnect with him.

So I'm really ok with all possible outcomes here. Life goes on.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

MGKR said:


> ... You all said that I need to reject her. ...


Correction MGKR. No - I didn't say that at all - I said that you should be wary of TRIAL SEPARATION advice - if it comes from your W and even more so a counselor. 

Statistics point to a conclusion that these generally don't improve a marriage. Make sure to understand the counselor's POV before taking their advice. Not ALL counselors are out to help a couple R - if its even in the papers.

At the stage you are at, with the information you've shared - your eyes are WIDE OPEN and you will have no delusions.

In my opinion, if reconciliation was on the table, this is not a good move on anyones' part. As a result, you might as well file for divorce as it will be inevitable. If she comes back from the trial - you can stop it, or you'll be that much further ahead.

Good luck!


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I can relate to this story quite a bit. I do think the trial separation is a mistake. My W had a deep emotional affair with a long time friend of hers that moved from friendship to love. She went NC, but I can guarantee if we separated at the stage you are at, she would have re-contacted him, even if just to keep him updated.

I do think your mindset is good though. You have already readied yourself for a life with or without her. That's a healthy place to be. 

One thing that worked for me (we are working at reconciliation - 6 months later still) at your stage, is to be very clear with her. Tell her that even one more contact with him and you will file for divorce and fight for custody. Strike the fear of God into her. This makes her options clear. Him or you. Not both. Sounds like she may already understand this, but it wouldn't hurt to make this as clear as day.

Good luck. I like where your head is at.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

> She will have no contact with OM during this time. She has given me full transparency, but really wants alone time to try and work on herself.


Dream away my friend: - fire your councilor and cancel the trial separation. The affair will restart and you will end up being divorced , if this is your intent so be it however if you want any chance of saving your marriage she and you stay together.


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