# Now it's Chumpcheaterlady's turn to face the UBT



## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

The below article, previously appeared on the chumplady website on October 26, 2012. It was written by the author of the Chumplady books and Chumplady blogger, Tracy Schorn. The UBT or universal bull$hit translator is a literary device she mockingly uses on her blog to ridicule, harpoon and satirize the notions, words and common antics of persons that are either cheating on their spouses, defending others that cheated or persons that are recovering or have recovered their marriages {which she doesn't believe to be likely or even possible}. Therefore, as a way of mocking and satirizing her, and to provide a glimpse of what if might feel like to be the target of such ridicule, I have borrowed her UBT literary device and put it to better use whereby I will translate her own real life questionable story about her cheating on and divorcing her never wayward first (of 3) husband. 

This is all in good fun and fair use. I don't know Mrs Shorn or her family at all in real life though a friend of mine that questioned her about this situation too and who I've borrowed some ideas and words from appears to have known her dad. Where I speculate, I'm just making up a story and filling in blanks where the fictional UBT tells me too. Tracy's third husband is an attorney too, so I don't want to get sued for slander so consider this is all just opinion or fictional and I leave to the reader to use their own imaginations as to what might be real and what is not.

The article to be translated: 

*But what if the BS truly sucks?
*October 26, 2012
by Chumplady:

It's been interesting to read the comments on my recent huff po article {link edited}. It’s pretty easy to hate cheaters and I find I have good company in that point of view, judging by the HuffPo comments. But the ones that make me pause are the ones that lay out an argument on how — no REALLY, the betrayed spouse (BS) actually, truly sucked. If the argument is made well, the commentator does not say “They made me cheat,” instead they write something to the effect of, if I had not been with someone so emotionally abusive and sexually withholding, I would not have been the sort of person who stepped out on my marriage.
And that resonates with me. Because I do think being in a bad marriage (I’ve been in two), can bring out the worst in a person. I can sympathize. My first husband was emotionally and sexually withholding. I do not want to be smug. The last year of my marriage with him, as it was all falling apart, if the right person had seduced me, I might well have tipped over to the cheater side. I remember very well thinking about it and skirting dangerously close to that side. A stay at home dad of my acquaintance kept hitting on me. And I felt absolutely desperate for affection. I ran all the traps in my head about cheating. But by the grace of God, I didn’t do it.
When I got close to that edge, what bubbled up in my mind was “I don’t really want an affair. I want to date openly. I want OUT of this marriage.”
I realize, if I had cheated, it could’ve felt like a middle path. Okay, I don’t have to have the messy divorce and the humiliation and expense. I can find an “arrangement” so I can get the sex I so badly want. It was very scary to make the decision to leave. I was a young mother with a pre-schooler and I worked part-time. How much easier to just postpone the divorce decision and cheat.
I felt then, oh I really did, that he deserved it. He*truly*sucked. He still sucks.
But he didn’t deserve to be cheated on. No one deserves that, not even the most sucktacular of spouses. But that’s not what I thought then. My decision not to cheat on him, I would like to tell you was because of my moral compass and my good values. Perhaps. But it was also based in total self interest. Once I found myself going there in my head, I took it as a sign that I needed to get the HELL OUT. For me.
And I did. I saw a lawyer. Informed him, that all the counseling and marriage saving I had been doing solo for years, was ending. I was divorcing him.
Once I saw that lawyer, drew up papers, and had that It’s Over speech, I never went back. I told him his personal life was his life, and mine was mine. Then I took a trip to London, wrote my family letters informing them of the divorce, and I had a fling with an old friend. And it felt great. Sex aside, I had forgotten what it felt like to have someone hold my hand or be kind.
To this day, I’m grateful I got out first and have a clear conscience about ending that marriage. I deeply sympathize with anyone in an*emotionally abusive and sexually withholding marriage. But cheating is NOT going to improve that. It’s a dreadful, hurtful, mutually abusive choice. I understand the impulse to strike back passive aggressively *—*I’ll show you! Hah! Watch me screw this other person! but if you do that, you need to be honest with yourself — you’re doing it to destroy your spouse. To destroy your marriage, because you’re too gutless to end it. Allowing the resulting drama do the work for you.
If you want to destroy your spouse? You need to realize that you’ve been emotionally out of that marriage for a long time. And then you need to GET out of that marriage honestly. (Assuming you’ve tried the therapy, counseling, etc. already. I do believe in giving it the honest college try, if you have kids, and no one has cheated already.) You cannot cheat on someone you feel emotionally connected with. I don’t believe we “love” people and cheat on them. It’s abuse.
Your spouse might truly suck. Such people exist. But don’t cheat on them. It just drags you down and makes you an abuser too.




Universal BS Translator (UBT) powered up and on we go. 




"If the argument is made well, the commentator does not say “They made me cheat,” instead they write something to the effect of, if I had not been with someone so emotionally abusive and sexually withholding, I would not have been the sort of person who stepped out on my marriage.” 

UBT: It appears here that Chumplady is setting up the bullcrap premise that although the cheating spouses she so often rips apart on her website are truly gifted at rationalizing and justifying their affairs by shamelessly pointing to their spouse's abuse, neglect and the withholding of sex, her eventual {she's gonna get to it} rationalizing and justifying of her adultery by pointing to her 1st husband's emotional abuse, neglect and withholding sex is completely different. She's out to claim that as long as you resist the advances of many flirting persons, decide the marriage is over and tell the chump up front you are going to cheat...it's not really cheating and therefor, she's a special exemption and not as bad an adulterer as the rest of those horrible, incorrigible unredeemable cheaters who she on one hand empathizes with but the other one hates them anyway 


"And that resonates with me. Because I do think being in a bad marriage (I’ve been in two), can bring out the worst in a person. I can sympathize. My first husband was emotionally and sexually withholding. I do not want to be smug. The last year of my marriage with him, as it was all falling apart, if the right person had seduced me, I might well have tipped over to the cheater side. I remember very well thinking about it and skirting dangerously close to that side. A stay at home dad of my acquaintance kept hitting on me. And I felt absolutely desperate for affection. I ran all the traps in my head about cheating. But by the grace of God, I didn’t do it.”

UBT: The UBT seems indignant to digest that the most angry anti-cheater blogger on the internet actually “sympathizes” and identifies with cheaters and indicate that she just got lucky not becoming a cheater herself after all the UBT has done for her. It's almost like she understands cheaters are just humans. The UBT understands that her words mean she was probably flirting and sending out signals of distress and helplessness to this acquaintance’s husband which resulted in him hitting on her like that. UBT doesn't believe "skirting" to accidental. The first few 'choices' along the path towards infidelity are obviously undertaken. The UBT points out that, just like so many cheaters before her, these temptations and stirrings must have significance. Obviously, it's a sign from God she's entitled to more attention and a divorce. 

“…..But he didn’t deserve to be cheated on. No one deserves that, not even the most sucktacular of spouses. But that’s not what I thought then. My decision not to cheat on him, I would like to tell you was because of my moral compass and my good values. Perhaps. But it was also based in total self interest. Once I found myself going there in my head, I took it as a sign that I needed to get the HELL OUT. For me. “ 

UBT = More crop signs from the universe she's entitled to cheat. "Once I found myself going there in my head" is cheater speak for "I was having an emotional relationship with an “old friend of mine” in Europe who was helping, consoling and counseling me about my supposed abusive controlling sex-depriving husband and after we talked, texted, skype`d and chatted for 100`s of hours over several weeks, months (or years) we started sharing feelings and concocting a way I could be with him without it “technically” being wrong ~ afterall, Daddy is a minister so I have to keep up appearances". The fact that she had feelings for another man and would be willing to even consider this is proof enough {the "sign" from God?} that her marriage was actually over and she'll never love my husband again. Praise be to decisiveness, the ultimate rationalization. The UBT reminds us that she would like us all to agree to the bullcrap premise that once the wayward spouse says it's over ~ they are free to bang whomever they want. The UBT also is pointing out that what she's really saying here is “since I'm a good person and my husband isn't...Karma/God is certainly sending me a message to divorce him”. The concluding comment, “For Me” is the BS battle cry of every selfish entitle wayward wife. What betrayed spouse hasn't heard their cheating spouse say “I had to do this “for me”, “I need space ~ for me”, or “this isn't about you, for once, I need to do this 'for me'”. It's so universal the UBT really needs to analyze little else to conclude these whole article is the ramblings of a full blown cheater. 


"I did. I saw a lawyer. Informed him, that all the counseling and marriage saving I had been doing solo for years, was ending. I was divorcing him." 

UBT: This is the typical history rewrite justification that a cheater presents years later to make certain to avoid the cheater label. She must rationalize her entitlement by pointing out that she was the only one that tried to work on the marriage, that she was sure to tell him "I'm done" and that she was so definitive she talked to a lawyer about it, therefore, the reader can see it really was done and not bullcrap some cheater is feeding you. The “counseling and marriage saving solo” line is added as additional 'proof' that she was good and he was bad so her subsequent cheating is justified. The UBT reiterates that none of these common excuses actually justify adultery


“Once I saw that lawyer, drew up papers, and had that “It’s Over speech”, I never went back. I told him his personal life was his life, and mine was mine. "


UBT: Now she's really pulled out the magic wayward unicorn dust and sprinkled it over a capitalized for emphasis and therefore very significant seeming `It's Over speech` supposedly announcing to husband and the world that's she's NOW a free agent and will no longer be bound by her vows {or even common decency when you intend to divorce your supposedly ill husband for selfish reasons}. The UBT then predicts that her husband probably questioned her fidelity and she told him "his personal life was his life, mine is {was} mine". The UBT machine went nuts on that one: if she even truly said it {again, sounds like a rewrite}, it's total wayward bullcrap speak for "I'm screwing or about to screw some guy, I've already got feelings for him and I'm not in love with you anymore, my bags and lingerie are packed and as of right now I declare us unmarried and I {oh, better say 'we' – 'we' sounds better} can have sex with whoever I/we want because I said so. She also says 'we' so as to really encourage him to go out and cheat too ~ because that would really make things substantially easier for her leave him and ease her conscience. The UBT was wondering when she was going to throw out the typical “you don't get to be upset about it be either because it's not cheating because I told you for years if you didn't shape up I was going to find someone else to pay attention to me and now I have” and the similar “it's MY private life and you have no right to interfere”. I mean really, the UBT just has to ask, what legitimate divorcing neglected wife who is NOT already having an affair would ever need to tell her husband, “as of today, our personal lives are each our own”. It may be the case in many situations eventually when they actually separate and begin to rebuild their lives; but, the UBT alarms here indicate it probably doesn't get clarified to this extent unless there is a already a secret "personal life" transpiring. "Personal life" is wayward speak for "my secret affair" 

“Then I took a trip to London, wrote my family letters informing them of the divorce, and I had a fling with an old friend. And it felt great. Sex aside, I had forgotten what it felt like to have someone hold my hand or be kind.”

UBT= Instead of calling it a pre-arranged rendezvous to have adulterous sex with `an old friend` let's minimize it now and call it simply "a trip to London". It's just a vacation. A little trip shortly after such an emotionally draining week of such decisiveness and conversations with and signs from God. The UBT questions the plausible utility of such a seemingly light-hearted appearing visit to the old city occurring in the midst of separating from her husband but I guess she better use her vacation time or get the trip in while he's still available to babysit. Then she can come back fresh to deal with all those pesky issues surrounding lawyers, custody, separating, child distraught, parents upset and finding new places to live. A "trip" sounds all so ~~~ necessary. 

Then seemingly while in London and BEFORE she found herself "flinging around" with `an old friend` and just to be sure you get the picture the marriage was over so she can now have sex with whoever she wants, she's sitting in a hotel room writing letters to multiple family members informing them of the divorce – {by mail?} creating an implication the justifying letters were postmarked from London BEFORE she even met up with such caring friend and cheated. Again, convenient timing to make certain not to disappoint her pastor father. 

Then, almost as an after thought she throws down the atom bomb ~~~ 

`and I had a fling with an old friend`. 

A `fling` -- UBT points out her bullcrap here is presented like it's just carefree youthful exuberance while on a holiday in Europe like it wasn't planned at all. It's Europe too – Europeans are just much more tolerant and accepting of affairs and maybe adultery doesn't count on another continent. Then again, it wasn't all that serious either ~~ it was `JUST` –- `a fling`, nothing hurtful or disgusting about that, right? UBT calls cowchippers on that one. 

In fact, it's so NOT disgusting to her that like most every cheater before her she can't help but celebrate it and tell us readers just how wonderful the adultery made her feel --- “It felt great” (so it was worth it as long as she's happy) and, in case anyone has the gall to question if it was wrong she has to remind the readers it's all her ex-husband's fault with “I forgot what it was like to have someone hold my hand or be kind”. Meanwhile, her ex-husband is probably back in the states packing their things or otherwise scrambling, taking care of their kids, not eating, not sleeping, talking to attorneys, putting down retainers, trying to figure out where the family money went while trying to figure out where his wife is and what/who she's doing. He may have even have known all about “an old friend” in London but, either way, it's not likely she mentioned where she was going - she probably just said she needed “space” and left him hanging like every other wayward cheater--- while her husband, the UBT reminds us, is likely sitting around handling real life and destroyed while she casually has her `fling` 

END UBT.


*Conclusion:
*
How many betrayed husband's have we seen over the years here on TAM with the same or similar story as chumpcheaterlady's 1st husband? Guys who desperately post ~~ "My wife announced it wasn't cheating because our marriage was over”, “she was free to do what she wants because I neglected her”, or “I get to because God brough so and so into my life for a reason ~~ I'd be dead otherwise” only to find out a week later she's been texting and dating her boss or old boyfriend for months and she's filing for divorce but completely denying it was going on before that moment? 

Unmentioned above in her column but worth noting is her supposed mentally ill uncaring sex-depriving 1st husband then proceeded to fight her in court for years over custody of the children and oppose whatever paperwork she filed to relocate with the kids and her cheating 2nd husband to rural Pennsylvania {he probably should have won considering the character and wayward behavior of chumplady's 2nd husband at the time}. Such lawsuits take money and a modicum of sanity. Truly crazy people don't have the ability to pay for or stick to such protracted legal battles. Sure that could be the punishing actions of a mentally unstable jerk ex-husband but it sounds a lot more consistent with what many of us understand many betrayed husbands do to maintain access and protect their children from their wayward mother {and her character lacking lovers}. He may very well be a completely defeated deadbeat betrayed father then and now, unable or unwilling to pay child support or visit his children much {who have since moved all around the country}, but that doesn't mean he deserved to be cheated on {even if he was told ahead of time} or to lose access to his son and have him moved all over the country against his will. 

There is also the whole issue of the vows “for better or worse, in sickness and in health” that are troublesome. I heard many stories of adulterers rewriting their divorces claiming their ex-spouse was mentally ill ~~ but if her supposed mentally ill husband was not cheating on her, is there then really biblical justification to divorce him at all, let alone declare yourself separated and say you'll be filing for divorce and run off to Europe to bang `an old friend'? I believe the scriptures indicate that without biblical justifications any and all relationships, marital or other, such person has after are adulterous. 

The UBT also uncovered this cowchip ~~ if 1st husband was truly that emotionally abusive and mentally ill wouldn't she be too scared or apprehensive to take the risk so quickly to betray, aggravate, and offend him especially while leaving their child in his emotionally fragile and unstable care? Cheating is an emotionally violent behavior that often begets reactive violent responses. Having a fling was dangerous for all involved.

The UBT also wondered why so many angry betrayed spouses have been so eager and willing to overlook her waywardness and cheating when they collectively appear to think and believe that all cheaters are horrible unredeemable mentally ill persons themselves? Why the double standard? Is it simply because they really like the tone of her anger and hate towards her second cheating husband that they are willing to overlook anything and everything? The anti~reconciliation group sure like to point out how waywards make for the worst betrayed spouse's but her projection seems to take the cake. Chumpcheaterlady appears to have simply got hit by the karma bus when her 2nd husband {predictably?} cheated on her after she threw away and cheated upon her Godly provided first husband. As chumplady likes to say: “Judge people on what they actually DO”. Well, is appears she's behaved as a typical rationalizing and justifying unrepentant cheater who has become an overly angry scorned chump when it happened to her and now she's set out to feed, fuel, tend to and monetize such hypocritical anger, hatred and hopelessness.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

*UBT: Chumplady's turn*

For some context and an indication why I bothered with this here's some discussion between Chumplady and myself from another thread a month or so ago..




chumplady said:


> Hey Quality, sounds like you think you know a lot about me.
> 
> I only know what I've read. I'm willing to learn more so I can understand why you do what you do and try to get you to reconsider.
> 
> ...


 It's not "advice". Advice is guidance or recommendations concerning prudent future action, typically given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or authoritative. You're not an authority or that knowledgeable considering your singular limited myopic POV and this just happened to you in what, 2012. You're just {in your own words} "a decent writer" and a "decent cartoonist". You also perform no evaluation "concerning prudent future action". It's just a conclusion that divorce is the best and reconciliation is "exceedingly rare" {which it isn't}. I'm sure you're a nice person who means well. Betrayal makes all a little overzealous to "help" the next person but zeal doesn't excuse the lack of discernment. I don't dislike you, I just dislike what you are doing ~~ FOR MONEY. As far as my Christianity, thanks for your judgment.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

For some reason I feel like I'm gonna see you on the news?


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

More Context.

Chumplady was questioned about her 1st divorce by an older friend of mine on her blog and this was her response he provided to me: 




chumpcheaterlady on chumplady website 8/2015 said:


> You seem to know a lot about me based on an acquaintanceship you had with my father over 30 years ago. Including my purported sex life OVERSEAS? Wow. Been keeping a close eye on me, huh?
> ...
> Yep, I absolutely had sex while separated from my first husband. In a state that requires physical separation of a year and one day before you can even file.  “Divorced” in my mind? No, divorced openly and with dramatic pronouncement. To him. To the lawyer that drew up the separation papers. And divorced to every family member to whom I wrote a “We’re getting divorced” letter to before I left overseas.  Cheating is about cake. Having both. It’s not about leaving someone, however unhappy they may be about that fact.  And lest someone think it’s an exit affair — you have to have the affair **first** (cake) before you exit. I initiated divorce, exited, announced it, and then went overseas.  If you think people are cheaters because they date while separated — well, then, by that definition, yep, I’m a cheater. And so is my {3rd} husband. Because I met him 10 days before his divorce was final.


Kind of using the term "initiated divorce" and "divorced openly" liberally there since you couldn't actually file for ACTUAL divorce for an entire year. "Getting" divorced is not actually "divorced".

And it IS about leaving someone you vowed to remain with 'in sickness and in health till death do you part' in a respectable manner at a minimum. Your state laws don't add justification to your behavior. Your state didn't make you wait to punish you or keep you from cheating. Longer waiting periods correlate with a lower divorce rates because you're supposed to remain faithful to your vows and contemplate reconciliation. Most states have shorter periods but did you even wait a week or a month?

Your admittedly "unhappy" ex~husband didn't deserve adultery. It's not like he cheated on you. 

It would be interesting to know the precise timeline {though difficult to believe unless your ex~husband confirms it}. I wonder if you had actually moved out and were even actually "separated" at the point you left to go to London. The other posted article makes it sound like it occurred pretty much simultaneously. In that article the "It's Over speech" and "fling" were in consecutive paragraphs. Also, was your ex~husband told about this trip at the time and does he know about the affair or is the first time he heard about it was reading about himself on your blog. Kind of a crappy way to learn your ex-wife cheated on you but he sounds like a total jerk that deserved it, right?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Kind of funny, really. In a current thread (different OP), the woman was lambasted for cheating on her husband. The only problem with that is they were separated. Not just separated due to work, but actually separated, with the intent to dissolve the marriage. And often, peopke are told it's ok to date, even having sex, if separated and/or divorcing. So... Revere the one who calls out cheaters, but condemn one who does the same thing. 

*Note: the other issue with that other poster, I agree with the other posters. But her being a cheater? Not if it's ok for others to date and/or have sex with others while separated/divorcing. It doesn't work that way. Either all people who date while separated are cheaters... or all of them are not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I'll assume you think a guy in a sexless marriage should honor his death do us part vows?

And if he files for divorce and his wife drags it out for 7 years he should stay celibate, because that would be cheating?

Methinks there's some bitterness and a sense of ownership going on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I don't see what she did as cheating.....if the moronic state makes a person wait one year to officially file and process a D, that is not on a separated spouse IMO.

If I was M, caught M WW cheating and decided to D her traitorous *ss, I certainly wouldn't give a d*mn if I lived in a state where they mandated a waiting period before the D could officially begin.......as far as I would be concerned, she would be D, and my exW, from the moment I kicked her to the curb.

If the separation/D paperwork is filed.....and it is CLEAR to both spouses that there will be no R EVER......then it's not infidelity in my book.....it's waiting on government paperwork.

Before the development of the labyrinthine canon law system of the Catholic Church, D didn't even have a delay.....all it took was a public declaration of divorce in front of witnesses.....it is STILL done this way in some Islamic countries.....a simple public declaration in front of witnesses, thrice repeated, and BINGO....divorced.

And there certainly wasn't a state mandated 'think it over' period.

Screw the d*mn state trying to steal a year of your life with some half-*ssed mandatory 'cooling off' period.

It's none of the government's business to try and force a waiting period on a divorcing couple 'just in case'......it's not their fricking job to try to force you to rethink your vows and what they mean because they think you are 'supposed' to do that.

Anyone who demands that you abide by their idea of what you are 'supposed' to do is just trying to cram their own d*mn beliefs down everyone else's throats.

IMO, a vow is valid and inviolable, and the M to be respected right up until the moment a spouse openly declares that they a divorcing, and the decision will not be altered......at that point the M, and it's vows ends as far as I'm concerned.......the haggling over asset division, custody rights, etc, while time-consuming is simply part of the paperwork process....the M is already terminated by the will/intent of at least one of the partners.

And if the other person doesn't want the D?......well, it sucks I'm sure, but you can't force someone to stay in a M unwillingly.

As far as I'm concerned, when a person 100% sets their purpose on D, then the M is OVER from that point on......the rest is just waiting on a bunch of bureaucrats to shuffle some paperwork.

Now....if a separation is intended to give space for thinking and the possibility of R is openly acknowledged....then yeah, it is infidelity.

In that case D has not been openly announced or decided upon.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I don't consider what she did cheating, either, since the separation was with intent to divorce.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Quality a woman's marriage broke down, she leaves her husband and after she has left her husband, but before the divorce is finalised, she has sex. Due to a legal requirement that people wanting a divorce have to wait for an arbitrary period of a year or so. 

And... what is the problem with someone doing that? :scratchhead:

This thread seems to be somewhat "odd."


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## nolight (Aug 20, 2016)

Odd is understatement considering that there's a lot of personal assumptions and guessing here so those things somehow make it seems personal to OP. 

Anwyay, i wholly agree with dyokemm here. She wasn't on a break, she was on her way to divorce without turning back so imo that's not cheating. Filing divorce and told the spouse that it's over is as clear as sunlight that the marriage is done


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

nolight said:


> Odd is understatement considering that there's a lot of personal assumptions and guessing here so those things somehow make it seems personal to OP.
> 
> Anwyay, i wholly agree with dyokemm here. She wasn't on a break, she was on her way to divorce without turning back so imo that's not cheating. Filing divorce and told the spouse that it's over is as clear as sunlight that the marriage is done


The use of the term 'odd' was a typical example of British understatement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

Dyokemm said:


> I don't see what she did as cheating.....if the moronic state makes a person wait one year to officially file and process a D, that is not on a separated spouse IMO.
> 
> If I was M, caught M WW cheating and decided to D her traitorous *ss, I certainly wouldn't give a d*mn if I lived in a state where they mandated a waiting period before the D could officially begin.......as far as I would be concerned, she would be D, and my exW, from the moment I kicked her to the curb.
> 
> ...



If your view is that marriage is perfunctorily terminated upon the mere will or intent of one the parties then your beliefs pretty much let about 50% of the cheaters that come here and the ones that chumplady unabashedly slams on her website off the hook. 

The cheaters will just eat this up. Right before they start having sex with their affair partner just close their eyes and consciously decide they want a divorce once and for all and, for good measure, send their spouse a text message or email declaring such. Then ~ it's not really cheating. For the millennials, there could even be a pretyped text so all they have to do is yell across the dark bedroom BEFORE having sex with their affair partner "hey, siri, text wife emergency divorce declaration".


Tracy didn't wait a year. It would be interesting to know the exact timeline because the UBT was sensing bullcrap and said it was really quick. Which would make the waiting period mostly irrelevant. It could have been 30 or 90 days and it wouldn't have mattered because she seemed off and cheating pretty as soon as she could hop on a plane.. She just had to write some letters and was off to fornicate. I don't know but the UBT seems to be able to discern from the article that she pretty much already had the plan to go to visit her OM in London BEFORE she went to the attorney, drew up papers, and told him "it's over" but we probably will never know the truth.

If Tracy already had the intent to have her "fling" if not the tickets to London in her purse BEFORE she went to attorney's office and before she actually told her husband "it's over", would your opinion change or would you just alter your list of excuses to justify a friend?


My point being, I don't personally completely disagree with you. I've advised strongly against people dating at all before the divorce is absolutely final because it's technically wrong and because it makes things complicated but I also have compassion and understanding of persons dealing with a cheating spouse off living with their affair partner while the betrayed is stuck in limbo for a long time awaiting court resolution {like year plus waiting periods in Virginia and Canada}. I might be against such dating and advise the person to pray hard and long about it but whatever God directs them to do is between them and God and I'm not going to further victimize a betrayed spouse. However, if your spouse didn't cheat and you just wanted out and to jump on the first genital you can find I find that rather heartless and obscene. Then to have that same person run around writing books and blogs slamming every entitled cheating spouse as though they are completely and forever the most awful, unredeemable and hopeless persons on the face of the earth while stoking up anger and venting with an audience of hurting betrayed spouse to such a destructive degree while also, at the very least, technically being a cheater/adulteress herself, that's hypocritical as all heck. 

Adultery is adultery. 

You can come up with a list of excuses, rationalizations and justifications all you want but the truth remains ~~ She admits to having had sex outside of her still valid marriage ~~ Her ex~first~husband was devastated by the divorce and, if he doesn't already know, he'll eventually be further devastated when he finds out about London boy.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Why should she or anyone wait a tear? 

What if the government said you had your wait for 5 years? 

Would you he OK with that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> @Quality a woman's marriage broke down, she leaves her husband and after she has left her husband, but before the divorce is finalised, she has sex. Due to a legal requirement that people wanting a divorce have to wait for an arbitrary period of a year or so.
> 
> And... what is the problem with someone doing that? :scratchhead:
> 
> This thread seems to be somewhat "odd."


You are actually adding facts she would have most definitely included had it occurred that way. 

Come on, try to read this all objectively. The cheater always tries to present the fact pattern in the best light to excuse their adultery. If she had already "left her husband" as in being ACTUALLY physically separated BEFORE going to London, she would have included that detail because it helps her build up her rationalizations and justifications. Instead she had paperwork drawn up {not necessarily filed, signed or even delivered or she'd have told us that too} and a supposed "it's over" conversation. 

It doesn't appear this was a matter of being desperately stuck in Virginia having to wait out a year waiting period ~~ her article clearly indicated a desire for sex with someone and those/that desire told her it was time to divorce. Read between the wayward lines. It's almost as clear as the "i love you but im not in love with you" type sentiment. She was motivated to go to the attorney and tell her husband "it's over" because she wanted sex probably specifically with London boy {recall her the dad she was getting hit on was married to an acquaintance so that wouldn't work}. The affair {emotional at that point} motivated or prompted the final will/intent to divorce. She was just careful to write it obtusely enough that her minions would just infer the best of her and not look to hard at the details.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

I wonder when she will show up? She is still a TAM member is she not?


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Why should she or anyone wait a tear?
> 
> What if the government said you had your wait for 5 years?
> 
> ...



I'm sure I would personally struggle with that, in time, but I'm not the one claiming superior character to every wayward and former wayward spouse on the planet.

Nor would a one, two~ five year waiting period excuse me telling my wife I want a divorce and then spending that weekend with "an old friend" {who just apparently popped out of the sky as if by chance to be available for sex that very initial weekend}.

8 months down the road and I end up dating a girl I obviously first met at a divorce recovery class through church would still be wrong to have sex with and I'd hope to abstain until remarriage but I've not faced that challenge yet. Hard for anyone to call that one cheating though but someone could and I'd own it {if I were actually sleeping with her}.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

bandit.45 said:


> I wonder when she will show up? She is still a TAM member is she not?


Yeah, she is.

I wonder how dead on the UBT was? It's usually pretty accurate. It would be nice for her to stop by and clarify the timeline a bit. Maybe she could even invite her ex~first husband to stop by and give us his perspective of the unraveling of their marriage. 

I hope she welcomes the scrutiny and takes advantage of the opportunity to clear up the confusion and take some self~inventory and responsibility for her hurtful choices instead of doing the typical wayward thing and puffing up in anger and defiance to being exposed.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

You're trying to nail chumplady on a technicality. You obviously have some kind of personal beef with her, or something she said that you took personally. What's your story?


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Personal beef or not, I am kind of interested in how it all unfolded, too. A timeline would definitely clear up any speculation. I do agree, however, that it does seem Quality knows more about it. Maybe he does... Maybe he doesn't. I am definitely curious, though. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I wonder why anyone truly cares. I don't care for her, therefore I don't read her tripe. Easy peasy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Quality,

I understand the point you are making about a cheater about to cross the line seeing my point as some type of 'get out of jail free' card....but I don't agree with your conclusion.

I think such a text or announcement as you describe would be disingenuous at best.....it would NOT be a reasoned and absolutely irrevocable decision to terminate the M.....but a spur of the moment exclamation more akin to a rationalization for cheating than a TRUE resolve or decision.

My point on when a M is truly over IMO is not such a flighty, blurted out statement......which, IMO, because it has NOT been thought through and rationally decided on is very likely to be very reversible and subject to change.

I still believe however that a decision made with firm resolve, and the person set and absolutely determined on D....when that decision is announced to the other party and the filing of the initial paperwork for separation or D is made, the M is terminated.

IF there is any doubt or discussion about potential R in the future, then becoming involved with another person is infidelity IMO....because there truly has been no real termination of the M if this option does remain a possibility.

Basically, I just think that waiting for a tedious, plodding legal process to conclude, in a D that WILL UNDOUBTEDLY happen, before a person is considered truly divorced is ridiculous......the M has already ended, the only waiting around is for bureaucrats to finish shuffling papers.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I wondered if you were arguing based on your religious beliefs and semantic based interpretations. I appreciate you starting the thread to answer questions. I do see, you have nothing new to add, nor anything remotely like the excellent research you provided on Bongo.

I do appreciate your candor and moving this out of the multiple threads and coalescing it into one area. 

Yes, I still disagree with your interpretation.

Thank you.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Quality said:


> I'm sure I would personally struggle with that, in time, but I'm not the one claiming superior character to every wayward and former wayward spouse on the planet.
> 
> Nor would a one, two~ five year waiting period excuse me telling my wife I want a divorce and then spending that weekend with "an old friend" {who just apparently popped out of the sky as if by chance to be available for sex that very initial weekend}.
> 
> 8 months down the road and I end up dating a girl I obviously first met at a divorce recovery class through church would still be wrong to have sex with and I'd hope to abstain until remarriage but I've not faced that challenge yet. Hard for anyone to call that one cheating though but someone could and I'd own it {if I were actually sleeping with her}.


I guess this is what I'm really getting at Quality.....the situation you described at the end....where you are simply the victim of a plodding or often interfering bureaucracy that mandates wasting ridiculously stupid amounts of your precious time because they think you should 'contemplate' or reflect on you M vows (or whatever other stupid reasoning some dopey, controlling, interfering politician thought mattered).....THAT is something I would not consider cheating.

A year is a significant amount of your time in life.....and for it to be wasted simply because some moron with an agenda thinks you should?

Well, to h*ll with that.

And it's not like the system can eventually restore that time back to your life.

If you are D and moving on.....DO SO.....waiting on the government to give official sanction or approval is stupid IMO.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chumplady is a long time TAM member.

Threads calling out TAM members are not allowed. It's against forum rules. 

So I'm closing this thread. If Chumplady is with re-opening it I will. Otherwise it stays closed.

{speaking as a moderator}


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