# Wife's old flame and Facebook



## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Married almost 20 years. 2 beautiful children- 1 freshman in college 1 freshmen high school. My wife and I own a business together and have worked side by side now 12+ years. It has been a challenge at time being around each other 24/7 but we have had a super relationship and always worked through the issues to be happy and seemingly content. We had been active church goers for almost as long as we have been married but have fallen off our spiritual commitment after an unfortunate church incident. We have lived in another part of the country away from our home/family/friends for 14 years now and have only a few true friends- most are still back east that we stay in contact with Facebook. Sexually we are off the charts and enjoy every moment together.

Here we go....

I met my wife in college and I chased her for 3 years eventually becoming intimate late senior year once but she still kept her distance. After that she still played the game and really didn't commit to a relationship partly because school was going to end in a couple of months and who knew where anyone was going to end up.

Graduation happened and I was about to move on but we ended up spending an amazing summer together that was one for the ages. We feel deeply in love and eventually moved in together about 10 months later. A few years passed and just before we got married I found an old sketchbook/journal of hers from senior year at college... she wrote several passage about a flame in college that I knew which she had kindred/passionate feelings for but at the time he was in a serious relationship with another person. He was a handsome and charming guy that I could see my wife light up when she was around him. Never thought much about it but I did notice since we weren’t dating. Soon after college he eventually married his long time girlfriend and after about 16 years (2 years ago) recently divorced.

Going back to the journal I saw where see wrote about our first time together, I literally turned the page and there was a passage which referenced a night she had been intimate together with this other guy during a particular movie- just a few short weeks after we had been together for the first time. She wrote in the journal how she professed her “love for him that he’ll never know.” It was a fling and he kept dating his girlfriend and she kept having feelings for him and never told him as far as I know.

Right or wrong at the time I confronted her and she told me about her feelings that she had for him but time had passed and she was with me and that is all that mattered is what I vaguely remember- a lot running through my head at the time. Overall I look back and her explanation never sat well with me or was entirely convincing. We managed to work through things and life went on. We eventually got married a couple of years later- had incredible children, grew even closer together spiritually, sexually never any issues, had great careers and then we moved across country several years later where we still reside.

A few years back my wife got into Facebook and eventually connected with all our friends from college and eventually her old flame (more hers than his I believe). He eventually friend requested me which I thought why not and accepted.

Over time I saw the banter back and forth between them on FB. He eventually separated from his wife and divorced two years ago (they have two beautiful kids). My wife was close friends to them in school but didn't keep in contact until this happened. She exchanged emails and spoke to them both at length separately on the phone but there was never a “we have to save their marriage” and intervention like we did with a couple of other friends marriages that failed or were failing.

Coincidentally his farther had left him and his mother about the same age as his kids at the time and it was a self-fulfilling prophecy that he was destined to the same fate- from my standpoint he has seemed to brush things under the table on FB. Comments like “Oh the kids are cool with this and my new apartment” etc., each parent tries to out-duel the other on FB in front of friends and family with the time they spend with their kids with postings…He posts selfies left and right and trumps his new found freedom...very very sad. We found out that he worked/traveled a lot and the wife discovered he was fooling around with someone at the office. Again not one to judge but not the best character for leaving her and the kids. She was and is still devastated. Months go by and he starts endorsing her on Linkedin weekly, even posting flashbacks to college from time to time and listing a bunch of people including my wife. She would Like the majority of his posts but never the wife's.

At the time we were going through some challenges due to business stress and both her parents being ill. Eventually my wife's father passed which was devastating to her. I didn't know how to handle it and should have been more consoling / inquiring but from the outside she stayed strong and didn't break down much. Her mom moved in to our house and things were very tense. She never had a close relationship with her mom so this meant alot. We honestly never thought deeply about this impact to our lives. This was also the last year our daughter would be in the house and soon heading out to college. My daughter desperately wanted to go back home and get out of dodge. My mother-in-law has headed back home for a good part of the year so we get back on track and have worked through things and are in a very good spot. Last year she came down with her 3 bought of cancer which has forced her to stay there so we have had an extended time together. Mom is doing well and will get her last treatment in a few months - then will head back to live with us again- I am looking forward to it so I can make a difference and embrace this differently now.

I have always been cursed with this sixth sense about people and I am usually right 9 times out of 10 about people’s character, intentions or motivations. I feel that FB allows her to peer into his life without being there. Last year on Valentines Day as I was walking by her office (Glass walls) as I see her answer her mobile phone and bang there goes that smiling facial glow I had seen before. I just knew it was probably him- it had been years. She didn’t say much and walked out the door to the restroom. She eventually came back and stayed in her office for a while. That afternoon I asked who it was and she said it was him- BAM! Curiously I asked what was the reason and she said she thought a local Convention related to his business that happened to take part at our facility would be something of interest to him- she had invited him clear cross country for the event. Wow…needless to say I was incredibly upset- he never made the trip but this caused a short rift between us which we eventually worked through.

Soon after her flames father passed – so there was this connection that seemed all too familiar from my standpoint. I believe they spoke and found comfort in speaking to each other due to the series of life events that happened to them both.

My insecurity has grown to be consuming at times as I just feel she is always has this clear insight into his life through FB that infuriates me. There is this lingering "what if now that he is single again- just keeps wearing me down". We have each other passwords because we own the business together and any emails between them end where one my wife writes to him

“I do have a lot to ask and to share and look forward to reconnecting soon. So wish it could be over a good glass (bottle) of wine. Lots of love…”

This escalated to exchange that my wife suggested they should talk talk via Skype with each other while I was away on business shortly she offered doing it over a glass of wine with winks.

My mortality has been lingering in my mind and the what if - would she go back with him if something happened to me has been floating in my mind....really not healthy I understand.

Overall I am head over heels in love with this woman. Our family means the world to us and we work hard day in and day out to enjoy life, business and each other. Business puts an added burden but we talk and deal with each issue and resolve in a loving way. She is so intelligent and compassionate and everyone just is drawn to her because she is one of the true people persons. I have ALWAYS felt fortunate that I am married to her and that she is mine and I am hers. For me I am outgoing but more serious... business has hardened me, used to travel out which I LOVE... my compassionate side has diminished over the years. I believe she deeply loves me as well.

We travel and like the finer things in life. Sexually things are off the charts between us and we mutually satisfy each other in amazing ways. My wife is an emotional person which has been amplified by her dad’s passing- also being so far from home and old friends for all these years she taken a toll - this has been a source of conflict and case where she shares about being unhappy at times. My daughter is now in college back home and my wife truly lives vicariously through her - she even lives in her old woman's boarding house in the SAME room. Thrill for my wife- not so much for my daughter. We didn’t get back much over the years but since our daughter is there in college we have been back 6 out of the last 8 months.

Last week while I was traveling we had an incident that I self-inflicted by checking up on her- she was not happy and accusing me of always needing to know what she was doing – which I am guilty off which again - reasons I detailed above. I began to worry how my insecurity was getting in the way of things. I got home and we made up and got back on track. This is truly an amazing aspect of our life that we can talk through this, cry together and get past things.

I see my issue of needing to know and have a desire to come to terms with it...that next day as I was spinning this last episode through my head trying work out the reasoning and rationale. I soon realized that the journal (yes its still around in our treasure chest of photos and memories) and her writings for this other man and Facebook is at the root of the issue. I pull the book out and reread what I hadn’t laid eyes on over 20 years ago. It became painful again but I kept it inside and just dealt with it.

You can’t script for this stuff… That evening we head over to some friends house for a dinner and don’t you know the satellite radio station starts playing the songs / soundtrack of “that movie” that my wife was intimate with this other guy. Not a song or two but all the songs spaced out for almost three hours!! WOW! She even said to everyone “I haven’t seen this movie in years” laughingly…”we don’t ever listen to them – not sure why” Well what do you think is going through my head...

To add insult to injury she recently reached out through FB to another flame (also in the journal) she had feelings for and invited him to participate in a business effort we have going on with our business. Again out of the blue and a total stretch. At this point I am on high alert. This is compounding things a great deal- lots of questions- is she searching for something- am I not giving her something that she is lacking. Is this a mid-life for her? Etc etc etc.

She is now on a business trip visiting our daughter and will be back tomorrow. During the resolution of our last tat- I had eluded to wanting a deeper conversation but didn’t go into details. My goal and hope is to share my deepest concerns, insecurities and desire for her to purge this/these persons/events from our lives once and for all.

I want to share my issue then lovingly ask her to unfriend him from all social media and destroy these journals based on what this is doing to our marriage or has the potential to do- need to refocus and move forward. My concern is that she has this kindred connection with this guy and wants / feels she needs to hold onto this relationship leading to her getting very upset and causing a deep rift/resentment that will linger in our relationship.

Is this selfish of me?
Am I justified?
Am I overreacting?
Do we need counseling?

Really need help from the group with any advice as to how I should approach this or if I am the one who needs help-not sure anymore.

In business I take no prisoners and am very successful handling global corporations and very demanding projects. I too can be demanding but have pride in every aspect of my life- family,wife, business/career. I truly believe she is my soul mate- I sadly don't have that confidence she thinks I am hers- no reason other than gut.

The uncertainty and insecurity related to this matter is causing me to loose control- I feel and that it will continue to impact our marriage if not dealt with… I want to put this behind us love this woman unconditionally and unequivocally but I am really not sure how to tee this issue up/express my position with full disclosure /demand will play out….

HELP!! Thoughts?


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## Diesel_Bomber (Mar 17, 2013)

Facebook is the work of the devil when it comes to fidelity in a marriage. It's another tool to threaten the faithfulness between husband/wife. I would simply have a discussion with her about how you feel about the possible inappropriate communication between her and this clown. 

It was explained to me that it's the role of said husband/wife to keep the other within boundaries and make them explicitly clear. I would have a severe problem with my wife sending winky faces and suggestions of having wine with an old flame.


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## What Are My Options (Mar 28, 2015)

HER

Your wife is having an emotional affair actively pursuing another man she has had a past with, inappropriate fantasies putting her into a fog of very poor judgment, is violating healthy boundaries and is entirely insensitive to her responsibility to make sure you feel secure at all times in reckless disregard of the health of her marriage. She is in the fog of an affair. Search FOG with the search function on this forum. Her objecting to your asking WTF is a tell tale sign of her inability to recognize what she is doing is not cool. 

YOU

You need to call b.s. with your wife's behavior or your marriage wil be even further at risk than it already is. It is time to Man up. Defend your marriage against your wife's bad decisions that are toxic to your marriage and work on the shortcomings you have honestly shared here to be a better man over time. You can be a better man and you know how because you have mentioned your shortcomings honestly here. Work on you. Read No More Mr Nice Guy which has been discussed at length here. Use the search to find the threads. 

Do not accept your wife getting reacquainted with someone that she been intimate with. It is a boundary violation and he is a snake in the grass. Time to kill it and these stupid feelings your wife is having in her fantasy land. It's way past time for her to knock it off and get back to investing all of that lustful energy into your marriage. 

Be sure not to handle it like a wuss because that will make him look strong and you weak. 

Get busy or you will regret letting her unacceptable behavior escalate with her raging fantasy and emotional affair going strong under your nose and with your permission by silence.

You can not imagine the pain that is coming if you don't take control of your fate and hers immediately.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

You are correct that your insecurities will drive a wedge if you don't get them under control. Unfortunately, they will likely drive her in a direction you don't want her to go (but which she is already heading on her own, for whatever reason) TOWARDS these old flames.

The death of a loved one, her father, often brings about introspection, reassessing one's life, questioning one's happiness, thoughts of one's mortality, etc. In short, similar to mid life crisis.

Having said that, her reaching out to these old flames and inviting them to traipse across the country is entirely inappropriate. And to suggest a private conversation over a bottle of wine (especially without any mention of including you) is beyond inappropriate.

You need to call her out on this behavior. First and foremost, she cuts off all contact with these dingbats on FB. They serve no purpose as "business contacts" or whatever lame excuse she comes up with. Inviting old flames to conferences that "they might like" is just stupid. Next, I would suggest getting in to counseling; marriage counseling for both of you, and individual counseling for her. She likely never dealt effectively with the loss of her father and could use some help with grief issues. She needs to be held accountable for her deceitful behavior (yes, it is deceitful) and find more appropriate ways to handle her issues besides reaching out to other men and destroying your trust in her. A good counselor can point out her flawed thinking.

You must stop portraying insecurity though. She will perceive you as weak, those other men as strong, and it's a very slippery slope from there. Your insecurities will drive her right into their arms.

And put that journal away somewhere for safekeeping. You may need to drag it out someday to burst her fantasy bubble.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thummper (Dec 19, 2013)

Damn Facebook. It's been the cause of so much marital infidelity! Oh the allure of fantasy relationships!


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## What Are My Options (Mar 28, 2015)

Diesel_Bomber said:


> Facebook is the work of the devil when it comes to fidelity in a marriage. It's another tool to threaten the faithfulness between husband/wife. I would simply have a discussion with her about how you feel about the possible inappropriate communication between her and this clown.
> 
> It was explained to me that it's the role of said husband/wife to keep the other within boundaries and make them explicitly clear. I would have a severe problem with my wife sending winky faces and suggestions of having wine with an old flame.


:iagree: I would flip the table. Deal killer. Not good!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Blueskyguy there's a balance between protecting your marriage, watching for red flags, and keeping your insecurities in check.

Remember you only have control of yourself. By all means if she's crossing lines that you find out of bounds then speak up but at the end of the day, she will make her own choices. So be confident that you're going to be okay no matter the choices of those around you. I'm not saying you have to take what others do. I'm just saying you can only expect then to treat you with love and respect and determine your own actions if they don't. Good luck Blue.


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Wow - I was sitting here holding my breath wondering what the responses would be...beating myself up and I do have to man up on this. Sincerely thank you to these fast replies- and PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!!! I need support....

Since I took the time to write this up - do you all feel I should just print this out and have her read it -with the obvious up fronts and lead ins?


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

> I didn't know how to handle it and should have been more consoling / inquiring but from the outside she stayed strong and didn't break down much.


This is where you have work to do. Your wife had an emotional need that maybe was not expressed and worked through when this happened. Most likely it has been plaguing her and the OM is meeting an emotional need that you didn't.

Your wife _*is*_ acting inappropriately but the one thing she most likely does not want to hear is how insecure this all makes you feel. She will most likely feel justified since you were not there for her emotionally. It is very easy to point blame in this situation you are in but its probably best to leave your insecurities out of the discussion. Reach out to her regarding the emotional changes happening in her life (losing her Dad, DD's leaving home) and try to help her get these issues out in the open so that you can comfort or whatever else she needs to address them.

But also in the discussion address how it is not helpful to your marriage for her to engage these past flames. Admit that you have dropped the ball but tell her from now on you want her to come to you instead of reaching out to other men. You will need to walk a fine line between letting her know it has to stop without threatening her and thus driving her straight into the arms of another man. Does she not have female friends from the past that she could reach out to? Other family?


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## thefam (Sep 9, 2014)

Blueskyguy said:


> Since I took the time to write this up - do you all feel I should just print this out and have her read it -with the obvious up fronts and lead ins?


Hell to the NO! Although my friend JLD will say "complete transparency" I don't think she wants to hear about your insecurities at this point.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

As other posters have stated - your wife is displaying major boundary violations. It must have been very hurtful to read that FB banter. It seems like you both have worked out other issues with frank discussion, so I'd try that route first.

I do think you need to acknowledge not being there for her during the death of her father. Also, I think it's not only unreasonable, but also cruel to ask someone to burn a journal of their private thoughts, whatever they may be. Your obsession with that journal is your own issue and should be treated as such.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Sorry to hear/read about your situation.

Sounds like you can certainly "fix" this before it gets out of hand, especially as you describe your marriage the way it is now.

Be strong and exude confidence in what you are willing to put up with in your marriage.

You will read about this all over the place here, but you can only control what you are willing to do/put up with. If your wife really wanted to leave the marriage...she can.

Keep strong and protect your marriage and hope your wife gets the wake up call.

Hope it all goes great for you.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

thefam said:


> *Hell to the NO!* Although my friend JLD will say "complete transparency" I don't think she wants to hear about your insecurities at this point.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

No, no, no! Do NOT print this out for her to read. It reads like a manual for your wife to discover your weak points, where your guard is down, and how she can gaslight, blame, and rewrite marital history to poo-poo away her current bad behavior.

Come here and tell US your insecurities and weaknesses, but do NOT tell her. Your job now is to be firm, strong and resolute in eliminating these Facebook males who will soon be circling like sharks.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

A bit of reading, 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Blueskyguy, I agree with the other responses in that you are in a bit of a no-win situation.

You have every right to be upset at her actions, now and then. Her having sex with the guy after you two were together was wrong if there was any impression you were exclusive. Even if you were not at all exclusive, it sounds like you felt surprised that she could have done it. But you did still marry her knowing she did it, so you are on thin ice to complain about it now.

But, you do still have the right to be bothered about the guy even if you can't tell your wife all about it. And, as has been said your wife is acting very inappropriately about it. There is no reason in the world for her to be in contact with that guy or the other one. It does not add value to your family, and there are no obligations such as children or businesses with them.

I believe we have the right to ask our spouse to cease activities which are harmful to the relationship. Yes it does look like insecurity, but there is also reality. Talk to any marriage counselor and they will tell you two things. One, this scenario of your wife contacting exes is exactly what leads to affairs and the destruction of marriages/families. Even though there was no intent of an affair in many cases, the situation provides opportunities and risks which lead to affairs. Second, your wife's actions are stealing energy from your marriage. Even if you didn't know about it, she is diverting emotions and energy away from her family. You do know about it, which is further eroding her marriage.

I want to think a bit more about how I would approach her before I give you specific ideas or advice.

My wife reconnected on FB a few years ago with her first lover, the bad boy professional musician she never really got over. He has been a problem throughout our marriage much as I think this movie-fvck guy has been for you. Even when not overtly there, any mention of him or reminders of certain events will cause distress.

I didn't catch that they were FB friends for a few months. I asked her to un-friend him because he was a threat (big time history of bedding married women) and because of the history of issues we'd had. She resisted me fiercely. Eventually she agreed to un-friend him, but she was furious. She still seems to hold a grudge about it.

You can set boundaries and get to some form of solution, but whatever you do will be difficult and will likely carry negatives into the marriage for a while. It is of her doing, not yours, though.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

:iagree: with Thor. 

It about the type of marriage you want to have and the personal boundaries that create that. 

There is nothing to be ashamed of, to not to want this man in your lives. It's normal and expected that you should want to protect your marriage. That's not saying it can be distasteful or easy. Remember it's nor you, but your wife that is letting him in.


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

Hammer down NOW. Not tomorrow. Do not let this evolve.

She will resist. Be firm. She will end up feeling more secure as you "defend" the marriage.

If not, then let the chips fall. You guys are in business together and she has a lot to lose.

Hammer down now. she must unfriend him without an explanation. She owes him none.

If she balks, tell her to get out, go to him but with no financial support as you are disolving the business.

HAMMER. NOW.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

thefam said:


> Hell to the NO! Although my friend JLD will say "complete transparency" I don't think she wants to hear about your insecurities at this point.


Actually I know how JLD feels about insecurity in men.. COMPLETE turn off.. makes him WEAK.. he shouldn't even complain ! 

Frankly I think I am the only wife on TAM that wouldn't throw a man under the bus if he shared an insecurity.... 

Blueskyguy , you can accomplish everything you are wanting to express - without going THERE..


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

No insecurity needed. Just pure man defending his castle.
The sooner you deal with it the less energy it will require.
Strong and courageous men stand in front of bullets to protect those he loves. Come from strength. She will love it or leave it. No middle ground. Get rid of this vermin perusing your wife's V.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

bravenewworld said:


> I do think you need to acknowledge not being there for her during the death of her father. Also, I think it's not only unreasonable, *but also cruel to ask someone to burn a journal of their private thoughts, whatever they may be. *Your obsession with that journal is your own issue and should be treated as such.


First Loves or an old flame can be very strong for some people.. especially those who hold on to memories & enjoy "going back" now & then.... I would have a really hard time (being one of those types) to BURN these things from my past....I'd fight tooth & nail , I wouldn't do it...

However....being her husband... she has crossed some boundaries here that is very disrespectful to you...inviting this man over from across the country for wine... just imagine how this would fly if you did this with an old hot Girlfriend & she wasnt invited to the wine pouring!! 

His & her calling each other on the phone... her being all upset over her privacy.. *NOT acceptable*...

Good article - understand the power of Secrets..

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/articles/993-sex-lies-secrets-secrecy-destroying-your-marriage.html


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Ok got it crystal clear..,firm and to the point. First we need to get back in our walk with Our Faith first and foremost...

Next Approach from an apology for not being there to console her, lead into the FOG issue, counseling then demand ties get cut and purged forever. Remove journals from our home (they are actually in out bedroom treasure chest) but not destroy, come around to our marriage and family as a whole and then Pray Pray Pray- but be prepared for big challenges, denial or potentially worse before it gets better.

How should I handle the disclosure of the inappropriate emails, Skype, wine Love sigs? Our emails aren't a secret and we know each other's passwords - there is no act of covering up they ALL are still there! Also look for counseling for both of us and for her.

All this comes when we are taking a 3 week vacation this summer to a destination she has been wanting to go for 30 years- she even shared with me last week that she wanted to RENEW our marriage vows to each other with the kids present which is what I planning to suggest as well... So this was HUGE!

Seems if we work towards this milestone we can align and walk step for step through life! 

Do I have it right?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Blueskyguy said:


> How should I handle the disclosure of the inappropriate emails, Skype, wine Love sigs? Our emails aren't a secret and we know each other's passwords - there is no act of covering up they ALL are still there! Also look for counseling for both of us and for her.
> 
> *Truthfully! There are no secrets in a marriage. Secrets kill transparent communication. You just do it. Calm, but with resolve that the communications don't just push the envelope, they cross the line and hurt you. That is what hurts, not your discovery. *
> 
> ...


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Blueskyguy said:


> Ok got it crystal clear..,firm and to the point. First we need to get back in our walk with Our Faith first and foremost...
> 
> 
> *Seems if we work towards this milestone we can align and walk step for step through life! *
> ...




For me, this seems right. It may very well be that your wife is not really understanding how slippery the slope is that she is on.

Maybe for her its just catching up and enjoying the "memories". 

The issue I see is that her actions are causing you to have "issues" and that is not right.

If your wife is really invested in the marriage and if she really does want to make things work all around, she will moderate her actions in order to make it better for you.....and I hope that you would do exactly the same for her.

It is about give and take and if she does not understand why her actions have caused you pain and if she "defends" her right to talk with friends...well...you need to step back and take another look at things.

Good luck.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

This is what can happen over time, when another man continually orbits around your wife and marriage. It can go from zero to sixty in no time, because she already has familiar emotional feelings for him. It's NOT "Just Friends"



F-102 said:


> Thanks for referencing my thread. I originally wrote it in response to one poster whose W had reconnected to an ex-BF on Facebook, and it outlined how it can go from "Hey, how's it going?" to "I hate my H's guts and I'm leaving him for you!"
> 
> Here's the unabridged version:
> 
> ...


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

Blueskyguy said:


> Ok got it crystal clear..,firm and to the point. First we need to get back in our walk with Our Faith first and foremost...
> 
> Next Approach from an apology for not being there to console her, lead into the FOG issue, counseling then demand ties get cut and purged forever. Remove journals from our home (they are actually in out bedroom treasure chest) but not destroy, come around to our marriage and family as a whole and then Pray Pray Pray- but be prepared for big challenges, denial or potentially worse before it gets better.
> 
> ...


I think the way you are handling the journals is fair. Putting them in the garage or storage will not only safeguard them but hopefully prevent you from reading them and giving yourself unnecessary anxiety. As someone who journals - it really is an enriching experience to go back and read how you felt about life in your teens, 20s, 30s, etc. Destroying them and her own records of her personal history because of writings about past relationships would really be a shame. 

I think you should approach the email situation by being completely honest how her behavior made you feel. Honestly, my stomach lurched as I read your descriptions of her Facebook banter. It's way too intense for a relationship neither of them kept up with until recently. 

Also, I think you should figure out what boundaries you can live with and lay them on the table. For example - "You can stay Facebook friends with Joe Schmoe but I would prefer you not private message at all" or "Right now I think we should deactivate our Facebook accounts for a few months and focus on our own real life relationships" or "No more Joe Schmoe. Period." Whatever you need. Please note I said what you NEED, not what you WANT. And if what you need is for her to have no further contact with Joe Schmoe, then so be it. 

The thing is nobody here can tell you what boundaries to set because we don't know the entire situation. I'd say be prepared to hear your wife out, but at the same time, know what behavior you will and won't accept and communicate that to her in a clear and loving manner. 

It's never a bad thing to know your own worth.


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Major AHA...

This is so hard because I have come to the realization that she may have seen her father in these guys- they have identical personalities- outgoing, always smiling, personable surrounded by others and the center of attention. I was a similar guy but we have gone through a lot and our business and move across country has changed us over the last 14 years. The timing of her reconnection is just short of the one year anniversary last year- second year just passed. By cutting them out it will be more impactful and devastating...

I can never be her father but I can work to be compassionate and focus on her needs which i thought I was but in hindsight I haven't especially during her grieving. 

For me he/they need to be completely out. This burden has to come off our marriage and we need to focus on each other and our needs first and foremost. God, Marriage, Family business...

She is coming back from a few days in her old stopping grounds with my daughter - living in her past mostly and through my daughter. I heard do it right away... But if I hit her with this now it will be very very emotional, she will blow up, the outcome and her decision will speak volumes of where we are at. on the other hand it may also be perfect timing to bring closure and start walking into the next chapter of our lives together....

We will soon find out if our marriage is being held together by our intimacy and nothing else or if there a foundation that we can share to rebuild what will hopefully be our happy and long future together as husband and wife.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Working at getting yourself back to the best man you can be, is the most productive way to better relationships. That is what will rebuild her admiration and respect for you. One foot in front of the other...

Best


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Blueskyguy said:


> Major AHA...
> 
> This is so hard because I have come to the realization that she may have seen her father in these guys- they have identical personalities- outgoing, always smiling, personable surrounded by others and the center of attention. I was a similar guy but we have gone through a lot and our business and move across country has changed us over the last 14 years. The timing of her reconnection is just short of the one year anniversary last year- second year just passed. By cutting them out it will be more impactful and devastating...


Big red flag there. This is exactly the kind of scenario which leads to an affair, with FB being a conduit. A major event creates a bit of a crisis in someone, and they reconnect with an ex. Make no mistake, a former lover is the very most dangerous person to any marriage, and doubly so in this kind of situation.

Your wife *is* in an Emotional Affair with at least the movie-fvck guy, maybe the other to some extent also. She is in an affair. More recently it is called an EA, whereas in the past we might have said she was still carrying a torch. I tip-toed around it earlier, but you should realize your wife has an emotional attachment to this guy. It is a form of an affair. And it will be difficult to break.

When your wife has some contact with this guy she immediately goes back in her mind to being 20yrs old, single, and carefree. No business pressures, no family obligations, no busy schedule, no worries about aging parents. So it feels really good to her when she thinks about this guy. Yes it is fantasy because she can never go back, and in reality she never had the kind of romance she wanted with this guy in the first place. That doesn't matter! Her brain is tricking her.

Someone linked to the book "Not Just Friends". You need to read it.

I think this is its own big issue separate from all the other stuff, such as you making mistakes in the past.

https://youtu.be/4Gc30PPvs3M


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

I'm going to be a bit different than most here.

I have lived your situation. Learn from my mistakes.

Right now she has reconnected.
The thought that you are second to him - well that thought is actually now a reality.

You can't change her.
You can't force her.
You can't control her.

You can only deal with you and what you will allow.

I tried to force mine - choose me or him. She chose me, but has a resentment that she can't shake, no matter what we do.
We now live as amicable room mates. We get along well, but anyone watching for any period of time can see that our relationship is "off". The trust was broken. The connection fractures because she (and I as well because I didn't handle it correctly) allowed another to invade our relationship.

I wish i would have done the following - it would have saved me years of misery and second guessing myself.

1st - you need to harden your heart a bit. She has connected with a "true first" love. No matter what anyone tells you, that's pretty much an unstoppable force you are up against.

2nd - No matter what she says, does, tells you - on some level, you are being replaced and she is replacing you with him. 

3rd - You need to get any and all finances straight. You need to contact a lawyer. Get you legal ducks in a row. Get divorce papers ready now.

4th - you do *NOT* ask her to choose. That is unless you completely understand that it may not be you.

5th - shock and awe are required. You sit her down and tell her "I understand you have connected with blah. This troubles me more than I can describe. I can't force you to cut this person out of your life. I can't force you to get rid of the journals so you can stop reliving the experience of him. I can't force you to choose. I'm not even going to base myself and fight a battle I know I can't win. I can only control me and I am now removing myself from this equation" 

6th - Because you need to show her that you are serious. This is your marriage and you will not tolerate another person in it and you will not tolerate her allowing another person in it. Hand her the divorce papers

I wish I would have done the above 8 years ago. My life has been an ongoing bag of suck for years because I didn't crush this connection under my boot like the vile worm that it is. I regret forcing my SO to choose (while she "chose" me, she really hasn't been happy with her choice). We are better, amicable as I stated above, but years of anger and emotional pain could have been avoided. We would have (well, I would like to believe this) become a stronger, bonded couple and life would have been so much more enjoyable.

Mine connected when the old flame's brother died. She reached out to help him. Unfortunately, I was young, ignorant (wtf is an EA) and extremely stupid thinking that people in love wouldn't do that to one another.

The phrase "wow was I so wrong" can't even begin to describe my situation.

Please, for your sanity, don't make the choices I did. You crush this underfoot now. You make unbreakable boundaries. You stop this foolishness before it rolls over you like mine did.

I see you last response came up before I finished redoing this post. Only you will know when the correct time is to face this. I wish you luck with your next step for you now go where angels fear to tread.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

One thing I think you might be struggling with is she not being who you thought she was. The movie guy event hurts still (even before reconnecting with him last year) for some reason. Do you think you understand why? Didn't she have other relationships before you, yet they don't bother you nearly as much?

There are very different philosophies and views of relationships and sexuality. I suspect your wife is very different than you in some of these. Neither one is right or wrong, but they are different. You may be projecting your belief system onto her and then saying "but I wouldn't do that, so why is she?". 

The journal in the treasure chest is an example. She most likely has zero understanding of how it bothers you or why it does. Don't project onto it your values, look at it as explanatory of her belief system.

My wife has a very nice cedar chest given to her by her older musician boyfriend as a Sweet 16 gift. When we bought a house and finally had room for it, she retrieved it from her parents' house and wanted to put it at the foot of our bed! She could not understand why I had a problem with that. It just is not in her brain to be able to process it.

It will become less hurtful to you once you understand how she really works, though it does bring some other problems to you at the same time.


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Woah....Snerg- this is certainly a different approach and another pathway. I understand your position and empathize with what you went through - this is just an extreme I need to rationalize right now. Your saying drop the divorce papers in her lap to frighten her into submission because if I don't its going to happen anyways due to the fact that I will make her choose? Wow...

I guess if we have never been able to get past our issues and things were building then this would be icing on the cake and I would be wise to this approach. But we have seemingly gotten through every issue and come out better for it. 

Snerg- was your relationship solid that you got through issues before you asked her to choose? Was the intimacy there? Do you have kids - how was their relationship as a whole?

I guess I need these to understand and compare to what I am going through- anyone else?? 

This is getting deep...and for a purpose. Clock is ticking- she is 5 hours away from landing....


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Personally, I think it's a bit early to drop divorce papers in her lap.

But it's not too early to be strong and resolute, insist she un-friend's these Facebook losers, insist on boundaries (no flirting and "reconnecting" with old flames, no chatting it up with new men either) get the journal out of the house, insist on counseling, and shut it down now. You can get back on track with your faith, but don't wait to do the things mentioned above first. No time to waste.

If she balks at blocking them on Facebook, gets defensive, doesn't understand why this would hurt you deeply, then you know you've got a deeper problem to deal with.

That's when the divorce papers come out.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Blueskyguy said:


> “I do have a lot to ask and to share and look forward to reconnecting soon. So wish it could be over a good glass (bottle) of wine. Lots of love…”



This is what I hear "Lets reconnect with our past feelings and lower our inhibitions in a intimate setting with a bottle of wine".

If my wife said this to another man especially an old flame I would be pissed!

And I would never be ok with it.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Blueskyguy said:


> Woah....Snerg- this is certainly a different approach and another pathway. I understand your position and empathize with what you went through - this is just an extreme I need to rationalize right now. Your saying drop the divorce papers in her lap to frighten her into submission because if I don't its going to happen anyways due to the fact that I will make her choose? Wow...
> 
> I guess if we have never been able to get past our issues and things were building then this would be icing on the cake and I would be wise to this approach. But we have seemingly gotten through every issue and come out better for it.
> 
> ...


Snerg's advice is spot on in my opinion if you want reconciliation. It's counter intuitive but usually the best way to save a relationship when a third person is in the equation is to disconnect instantly. It's like an emotional slap and the spouse who's been pulling away or stepping out goes into damage control in a split second. They have a different perspective and clarity on what they have and what they're doing and what they risk losing.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

No one's marriage, and I don't care how wonderful many aspects of it may be, is more important than their own personal dignity. 
I think you should tell her you have no intention of renewing your vows with her in three weeks. She hasnt treated you with enough respect as her husband, during your marriage, to merit anything like that. 
Some men are married to women that are every bit as wonderful and engaging as your wife is. And those wives are devoted to them, and only them. Those are the men that are truly lucky, truly blessed. I'm sure you deserve to be one of those men, OP, but you are not.

You need to convince your wife that your presence in her life going forward is far from assured. Unless she does the major overhaul of her behavior, of her attitudes, that is required. Good luck to you OP.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Women collect and treasure romantic memories. If she believes that the old relationship can come to life she is probably fooling herself. Old Fame might want to have sex with her again but I'll bet your wife is far more invested. Your children would not dig this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

foolscotton3.... this is resounding within my heart. Thank you!!! 

Follow up with what you outlined - Emphasize that this is not my doing but hers and that we will tell the kids together.

•*We get counseling
• No Facebook for that time
• Her mother stays away until we get our $hit together 
•*Everything is on the table
•*Finally tell her we have 60 DAYS to get things right (to our trip and anniversary to work through this). 

If we can resolve this mutually then we continue on with our marriage and make our renewal of our vows truly spiritually mean something. 

If we can't then we call it quits at 20 glorious years and move one with our lives giving her a chance to be with and live with whoever makes her the happiest because I truly love her unconditionally and right now I don't believe I am fulfilling her needs at this time. 

?????


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

That is weak.


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

understand....Keep it coming...


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

Kenneth....

I agree that this is weak. I will demand that these relationships end this evening.....period the end. How she reacts will tell me how willing she is to save our marriage. 

She has fallen into temptation that has turned into a cancer- we can act now and cut this cancer out of our life and begin the process of healing or it will be the end of us.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Blueskyguy said:


> Kenneth....
> 
> I agree that this is weak. I will demand that these relationships end this evening.....period the end. How she reacts will tell me how willing she is to save our marriage.
> 
> She has fallen into temptation that has turned into a cancer- we can act now and cut this cancer out of our life and begin the process of healing or it will be the end of us.


Much better! You are making it clear that you will not tolerate these "fantasy friends" interfering with your marriage. If she continues contact with them in any way, then it *is* interfering with your marriage. And there are stiff consequences for her.

She either recognizes the damage she has caused, cuts them off, is truly remorseful, and you move forward together... OR, you will begin moving forward without her.

And this conversation is not the time for you to profess your undying love for her, how she is the love of your life, how you can't imagine a life without her, etc. Instead, this is the conversation where you tell her you are very disappointed in her choices, married people don't behave this way, straighten up and fly right and start acting like a wife, or she can get the h*ll out and move in with one of these Facebook fellas.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Much better! You are making it clear that you will not tolerate these "fantasy friends" interfering with your marriage. If she continues contact with them in any way, then it *is* interfering with your marriage. And there are stiff consequences for her.
> 
> She either recognizes the damage she has caused, cuts them off, is truly remorseful, and you move forward together... OR, you will begin moving forward without her.
> 
> *And this conversation is not the time for you to profess your undying love for her, how she is the love of your life, how you can't imagine a life without her, etc.* Instead, this is the conversation where you tell her you are very disappointed in her choices, married people don't behave this way, straighten up and fly right and start acting like a wife, or she can get the h*ll out and move in with one of these Facebook fellas.


:iagree: All of the above!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Much better! You are making it clear that you will not tolerate these "fantasy friends" interfering with your marriage. If she continues contact with them in any way, then it *is* interfering with your marriage. And there are stiff consequences for her.
> 
> She either recognizes the damage she has caused, cuts them off, is truly remorseful, and you move forward together... OR, you will begin moving forward without her.
> 
> And this conversation is not the time for you to profess your undying love for her, how she is the love of your life, how you can't imagine a life without her, etc. Instead, this is the conversation where you tell her you are very disappointed in her choices, married people don't behave this way, straighten up and fly right and start acting like a wife, or she can get the h*ll out and move in with one of these Facebook fellas.


:iagree:
Do not get emotional do not beg do not whine.
Make it to the point no raising your voice.
You can do this.


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## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

Lesson to learn - as soon as you see a FB old friend pop up and start to make contact, cut it off hard. No if's and's and but's.
No "we're just friends" crap.
One of my wife's old BF started commenting on her FB page. No problem i thought, then he asked to meet for lunch. I told her next time he asks, shut him down. She said "we were just friends" but I knew better. I sat back as I had her pw and monitored her PMs (unknown to her). Then he asked on her PM. While we were in bed that night I innocently brought up a reason for us to look at another one of her PMs. "Surprised" seeing his message asking in PM I went Nuclear on her and she unfriended him, never to be heard from again!
this past month, another bozo tried to get her to meet. She politely told him she was married. I went ballistic as she didn't SHOOT HIM DOWN HARD. She unfriended him and I sent him a message saying nicely to get the Fvck away from my wife or hell would rain down on him. He's gone.

I think in this world, you need to snoop... I mean monitor all communications and hammer down HARD on first contact. Every day that goes by makes it harder to do. Funny thing was that each time, we ended up having passionate sex and weeks of bliss. Show strength and show it fast. Be the MAN of the relationship swinging a very big club.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Blueskyguy, I don't want to be paranoid or make you paranoid, but hat is the story on this trip she went on? Any opportunity for her to meet up with any old bf's/lovers?


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## Blueskyguy (Mar 28, 2015)

She was with my daughter the entire time with school and visiting with family so there was no opportunity for her to meet up with anybody else thank you for asking though. I am off it's time I am going in focued and with resolution with the man's of immediate cease-and-desist

thank you so much for everybody who has given me advice I truly appreciated every word I will keep you posted!!


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

OP, this one is easy. You've been married this long so there should be no need to hold back.

I'd be right upfront and tell her game is up, get rid of these two clowns in FB 100% with no contact. 100% cut right here and now.

Smack it down now. Tell her she's having an emotional affair and it's them or you. Use those words.


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## D.H Mosquito (Jul 22, 2014)

I agree 100% with the posters that say shut it down and shut it down now, by doing so you know where you stand and save yourselves from any potential damaging affairs from the "just the friend" waiting in the wings for that rocky bumpy road we all hit in a marriage


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

Just because a tool like FB exists does not mean it should be used. Married people friending old flames is not a good idea in general.

Your W has gone WAY beyond just having this man on her friends list, and in my opinion is in EA space with him.

Old flames belong in the past. PERIOD ! 

Stop being so weak about this and tell your wife this stops NOW, or she just tanked your marriage. If she fights you on this its a bad sign.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

nuclearnightmare said:


> I think you should tell her you have no intention of renewing your vows with her in three weeks.


:iagree: This celebration should not happen until this issue is resolved to your satisfaction.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

I am in agreement - No old flames as friends.

Your silence means either you are in hell now or heaven.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

LongWalk said:


> Women collect and treasure romantic memories. If she believes that the old relationship can come to life she is probably fooling herself. Old Fame might want to have sex with her again but I'll bet your wife is far more invested. Your children would not dig this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's all well and good when it's old photos, or a letter, related to somebody you actually dated (first boyfriend, prom date, whatever).

This is a guy she wanted but could not have because he had a girlfriend, who he eventually married. He also slept with her while with this girlfriend. She was an affair partner to a guy who chose somebody else instead of her. He also apparently cheated on this poor woman many more times, including while he was married.

She's fully aware of this. Armed with this knowledge, whatever interest she has in him 20 years later, is not related to wanting a relationship with him. It is lust, pure and simple.

Anything and everything related to this guy should have been burned long ago, imo. And by HER hands. He obviously made a hell of an impression on her all those years ago.

Also, super obvious red flag - she slept with this guy while he was with another woman, so clearly her morals are lacking. Not sure the fact that she's now the one who isn't single would matter to her in the slightest.

I RARELY ever lean towards this type of advice here, seriously - but I wouldn't be sticking around to see what happens if I were in his shoes. Much easier said than done, but I don't see a whole lot of encouraging signs with this one.

For starters, two things stick out to me like a sore thumb - her morals even 20 years ago stunk, and it's clear in her severely lacking boundaries today.

And two, it's the perfect storm, as they say - guy who "got away" pops back up again after all this time. He's recently divorced. They are now empty-nesters. Deaths in the family. Mid-life (ish) re-prioritization of things. Huge move across the country. Stress. Boredom. Etc etc etc. It's a big list.

If I were OP and faced with all of THIS, I'd basically be giving her one chance. A good solid conversation about things. Not asking why she's apparently not happy, and not voicing his insecurities. She needs to know this is not appropriate, you don't care about the reasons WHY she is doing it, and you need to know nothing further about HIM.

You sit back for a month or so, and if nothing has changed, she hasn't "got it", she continues this path, whatever, then out the door you go.

"If you really love something set it free. If it comes back it’s yours, if not it wasn't meant to be"


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

kennethk said:


> I think in this world, you need to snoop... I mean monitor all communications and hammer down HARD on first contact. Every day that goes by makes it harder to do. Funny thing was that each time, we ended up having passionate sex and weeks of bliss. Show strength and show it fast. Be the MAN of the relationship swinging a very big club.


I agree with this in regards to Facebook. Everything else, meh, it depends.

As far as I'm concerned, when married couples are on Facebook, with their own accounts, then each person should know who each of their friends are and WHY they're friends with them on Facebook. If one spouse isn't comfortable with so-and-so being on their friends list, then there should be no discussion about it, they're gone. Veto power.

Part of the reason is to protect the marriage, obviously. The other part is privacy. My wife and I (and our kids) photos, and day-to-day life is visible to anyone who is either friends with her or with me on Facebook. Meaning her friends can see any pictures I've put up that have her tagged in them, and vice versa. I'm not that comfortable with Joe Blow or Jane Doe, whom I've never met, seeing family vacation photos, or our wedding photos, or what have you.

In real life, we generally know, or have met, all of our spouses actual friends. People who know US. Who we spend time with, who have been to our houses, or on vacation with.

On Facebook, we all tend to friend anybody and everybody we "know", acquaintances, work mates, former classmates, etc. If one doesn't spend time with these people in real life (or outside of work), then they shouldn't be seeing the intimate details of our life, or lives together.

I have tried to cultivate my Facebook friends list this way. It is almost entirely made up of actual friends, family, friends who have moved away and I CAN'T see anymore, and that's about it. I have NO single women on my friends list. No co-workers. And only a small handful of former classmates with whom I was good friends with back in the day (no women in that category, either).

We all feel this pressure to "friend" somebody for no real reason. It's like we don't want to insult somebody by denying their request, and that's ludicrous.

The best way to look at Facebook is this: if somebody friend requests you, treat it as though they were asking to get together and hang out with you. Would you want to? Would it be appropriate to? (ie. they're single, you're married). Would you two ever spend time together in real life?

If the answer is "no" and you wouldn't do something with them in real life (because it would be inappropriate, because you don't really like them, because you barely know them, etc.) then don't be Facebook friends with them.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

alexm said:


> As far as I'm concerned, when married couples are on Facebook, with their own accounts, then each person should know who each of their friends are and WHY they're friends with them on Facebook. If one spouse isn't comfortable with so-and-so being on their friends list, then there should be no discussion about it, they're gone. Veto power.
> 
> The best way to look at Facebook is this: if somebody friend requests you, treat it as though they were asking to get together and hang out with you. Would you want to? Would it be appropriate to? (ie. they're single, you're married). Would you two ever spend time together in real life?
> 
> If the answer is "no" and you wouldn't do something with them in real life (because it would be inappropriate, because you don't really like them, because you barely know them, etc.) then don't be Facebook friends with them.


This I fully agree with. Any person who is not a true friend of the couple should be gone. Especially the part about people who in real life you would not hang out with.

FB is a disaster in the making. I've seen people get mad they didnt'get invited to a gathering. Too much detail of your life out there on the interwebs IMO.

My fiance has her own FB and we have a joint. Once married her own is going bye-bye and it's been discussed.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Blueskyguy said:


> I am off it's time I am going in focued and with resolution with the man's of immediate cease-and-desist
> 
> thank you so much for everybody who has given me advice I truly appreciated every word I will keep you posted!!


 It has now been over 24 hours since you posted this, and you have not kept us posted as you stated that you would. I am concerned for you. Please tell me that she did not choose to stay in contact with the other man over your marriage.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

TRy said:


> It has now been over 24 hours since you posted this, and you have not kept us posted as you stated that you would. I am concerned for you. Please tell me that she did not choose to stay in contact with the other man over your marriage.


Give him a chance as these things usually don't go per a defined script. Keep in mind for him this is real-life.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

This probably won't be much help with this specific issue, but I hope someone else will see this and hopefully take pause before doing what you did. Here goes... You admitted to chasing a girl for three years before you eventually married her. 

Why waste your time? On the surface it looks like it ended well for the most part, but even now you are worrying about her reaching out to old flames. Too bad you didn't get the hint after one year of chasing her. You could have found a woman that would have worshipped the ground you walked on. Instead, you have this "dream girl" of yours that is turning into your nightmare. 

IMHO, no one is worth chasing to this extent. If someone is cool with you despite your best efforts to woo them. Move on and find another worthy of getting your all. All that great sex has the "I fantasize about others to get through my marriage" theme running thru this thread. 

My recommendation would be to do something different before it is too late. Sorry.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jdawg2015 said:


> Especially the part about people who in real life you would not hang out with.


I wanted to add that I think this part is important, because Facebook can give somebody so much information about you that it's almost scary, and I think we tend to forget that.

Why allow somebody to see your daily interactions with other people, your likes and dislikes, your family photos, etc. if you wouldn't spend time with them in real life? They'll actually know more about you by being Facebook friends than actually spending time with you.

Just because buddy at work is friendly and nice doesn't mean he's not going to leer at your photos (and save them to his computer.. ugh) or check your Facebook page every day and be super creepy.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

TRy said:


> It has now been over 24 hours since you posted this, and you have not kept us posted as you stated that you would. I am concerned for you. Please tell me that she did not choose to stay in contact with the other man over your marriage.


When I first came here back in 2008 looking for advice and such about my previous marriage, I often didn't come back here for days (and probably a week or two at some times). I'd check in when I had a moment to myself and my head was on straight enough to do so, and/or I needed talking down or whatever.

When you're in crisis mode, there are more important things to look after, including yourself. Hopefully he'll be back on his own time, if he feels he needs to.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

FB is a tool just like pen and paper, mobile phones, email and telephones. All these other tools can be used to cheat. Don't blame the tools, blame the idiots for settling for someone that they later regret marrying OR blame the idiots for not having enough self worth to recognize that chasing people whose first instincts were to run from you will eventually end badly.

JMO, sorry if too blunt, meant to be in general.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> FB is a tool just like pen and paper, mobile phones, email and telephones. All these other tools can be used to cheat. Don't blame the tools, blame the idiots for settling for someone that they later regret marrying OR blame the idiots for not having enough self worth to recognize that chasing people whose first instincts were to run from you will eventually end badly.
> 
> JMO, sorry if too blunt, meant to be in general.


Many couple have found out FB makes things VERY easy to go over the line. A bad spot in marriage and a few compliments online from some other person and things go from there.

Yes the people own their actions, but FB makes things a lot more easy. Online things seem "safe".

I'm one who firmly believes married couples should have joint FB accounts. Solves a whole lot of problems ...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> Many couple have found out FB makes things VERY easy to go over the line. A bad spot in marriage and a few compliments online from some other person and things go from there.
> 
> Yes the people own their actions, but FB makes things a lot more easy. Online things seem "safe".
> 
> I'm one who firmly believes married couples should have joint FB accounts. Solves a whole lot of problems ...


I understand your points, but the overall theme I see on here is FB is a contributing cause to marital problems. I don't believe that. Does it make it easier to connect? Yes. If a spouse has it in him/her to cheat, would they still end up cheating whether FB is used or not? I believe the answer is still yes.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

jdawg2015 said:


> Many couple have found out FB makes things VERY easy to go over the line. A bad spot in marriage and a few compliments online from some other person and things go from there.
> 
> Yes the people own their actions, but FB makes things a lot more easy. Online things seem "safe".
> 
> I'm one who firmly believes married couples should have joint FB accounts. Solves a whole lot of problems ...


Fully agree with this. I've been on both sides, believe it or not.

Obviously with seeing how some people talk to my wife on facebook, I've been on that side.

And believe it or not, I crossed some lines in the early days of Facebook, too, while I was with my ex wife. Things that I didn't even realize were line crossing at the time. And I had NO interest in cheating on my ex wife, I wasn't looking for it, and the thought never even crossed my mind. Honestly.

What I WAS looking for was some form of validation from the opposite sex, because my ex wife did not give me any, really. Or rather, I allowed some women to give me this validation (which I did not reciprocate, but I didn't exactly shut it down, either). And that was my justification - my ex wife wasn't paying enough attention to me (and truly, she wasn't).

If I hadn't had a head on my shoulders, I could have justified the next step, then the next, and the one after that, until... uh oh, I'm now out for coffee with some woman *****ing about how my wife treats me like crap. And I would have honestly got to that point without even THINKING about cheating on her.

And honestly, maybe I was just lucky things never progressed any further than they had. I'm not entirely sure I did enough to make sure it wouldn't.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

alexm said:


> What I WAS looking for was some form of validation from the opposite sex, because my ex wife did not give me any, really. Or rather, I allowed some women to give me this validation (which I did not reciprocate, but I didn't exactly shut it down, either). And that was my justification - my ex wife wasn't paying enough attention to me (and truly, she wasn't).


This is what most people are doing. It is interesting, after you can step back and see yourself doing it, versus when you are doing it and have no idea this is what you are really doing.

It is a little trick we play on ourselves.

But once you expose yourself to yourself with this trick, you know when you are doing it.

In some cases like when you are single, it is fun and harmless to do this! But when you're in a relationship, it is best if you at least know when you're seeking other validation, versus being self-validated and honestly just being friendly or conversing.


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

My wife and I use FB for biz as well as personal so we have lots of "friends" who we don't know in RL. It's one of the reasons I monitor her page and PMs. We know each others PWs and our computers are always available for each to see. Being in the public eye has its drawbacks obviously. It keeps me on my toes even though it is extremely rare that any guys hit on her... very rare, and old BF are nixed quickly. For some reason I never get hit on... hummmm... Maybe I'm doing something wrong? hahahahahaha. Just kidding. If you are so inclined, FB can be a great hookup tool so I suggest ongoing monitoring to all.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

DoneWithHurting said:


> My wife and I use FB for biz as well as personal so we have lots of "friends" who we don't know in RL. It's one of the reasons I monitor her page and PMs. We know each others PWs and our computers are always available for each to see. Being in the public eye has its drawbacks obviously. It keeps me on my toes even though it is extremely rare that any guys hit on her... very rare, and old BF are nixed quickly. For some reason I never get hit on... hummmm... Maybe I'm doing something wrong? hahahahahaha. Just kidding. If you are so inclined, FB can be a great hookup tool so I suggest ongoing monitoring to all.


I also use FB for business, but my business has it's own page and is in no way connected to my personal account. Yes, I log in with the same username/password, but you can switch between the two pages from within.

This keeps my business and my private life separate and completely negates the need to have clients/potential clients from seeing my private life. Which, honestly, is the way it should be.

Another way to look at FB, in addition to how I've already described my views on it above, is that you consider it your "house". When you invite somebody into your house, they see and hear all about your life if they're there long enough. With FB, it's almost like giving somebody the key to your house and allowing them in whenever they want, for however long they want, and they can walk around and look at whatever they want, including your family photo albums.

So when somebody friend requests me, I tend to think of it that way - is this somebody I am okay with seeing my day-to-day interactions, never mind leafing through my family albums? Seeing who my friends and family are? (and be able to see their pictures and messages to me, etc.) I mean, can you imagine inviting somebody over to your house for the first time, and they start going through your photo albums?

Yes, you can set your privacy settings a million different ways, but we all know that not everybody does that. I had to help my wife set her privacy settings a while ago because nothing was locked down at all, and anybody could see her page, her photos and her posts.

The worst offender is the "friends of friends" privacy setting, in which so many people neglect to lock down. So one only has to be a friend of one of your friends in order to see photos and whatever else is on your page.

It IS a valuable tool for work and business, yes, but only as long as the two are separated, as mine are.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I understand your points, but the overall theme I see on here is FB is a contributing cause to marital problems. I don't believe that. Does it make it easier to connect? Yes. If a spouse has it in him/her to cheat, would they still end up cheating whether FB is used or not? I believe the answer is still yes.


If someone wants to cheat then they will, FB or not. However, FB may facilitate an affair which otherwise never would have happened. An ex can make contact via FB today, which would not have happened in the past. An ex is the highest risk of becoming an AP.

My sister is a family and marriage therapist, and she tells me in her practice virtually every couple she sees now has infidelity involved, and in every case FB and other social media are involved. Compared to ten or more years ago, when infidelity was present in only about half her clients.

Cell phones are another player for the same reason as FB is, simple secret communications.

I don't blame FB or cell phones, but I do believe affairs happen today which would not have in the past before these technologies.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Thor said:


> If someone wants to cheat then they will, FB or not. However, FB may facilitate an affair which otherwise never would have happened. An ex can make contact via FB today, which would not have happened in the past. An ex is the highest risk of becoming an AP.
> 
> My sister is a family and marriage therapist, and she tells me in her practice virtually every couple she sees now has infidelity involved, and in every case FB and other social media are involved. Compared to ten or more years ago, when infidelity was present in only about half her clients.
> 
> ...


BC was the old scourge that allowed greater degrees of promiscuity and affairs in the past. Today, very few people would be willing to chuck BC away because of a side effect of infidelity. Today, FB is the new "BC". FB may go away within 5 to 10 years, but social media in general will not. The only recourse I see is that people need to learn how to use social media responsibly - just like people had to learn how to use BC more responsibly (if we ever fully gotten to that point yet). Neither product is a license to cheat. Both need to be used responsibly and reconnecting with people needs to happen more judiciously. In time, we will learn how to be more responsible with these tools. By that time, there will be more tools that will "cause" us to do bad things.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> BC was the old scourge that allowed greater degrees of promiscuity and affairs in the past. Today, very few people would be willing to chuck BC away because of a side effect of infidelity. Today, FB is the new "BC". FB may go away within 5 to 10 years, but social media in general will not. The only recourse I see is that people need to learn how to use social media responsibly - just like people had to learn how to use BC more responsibly (if we ever fully gotten to that point yet). Neither product is a license to cheat. Both need to be used responsibly and reconnecting with people needs to happen more judiciously. In time, we will learn how to be more responsible with these tools. By that time, there will be more tools that will "cause" us to do bad things.


I don't know. FB is just so much more personal.

A wayward spouse can easily look up the person from the past and pick up right where they left off. One friend request and message send away. It's just so quick and easy.

I'll say it again, I fully believe FB should be joint accounts for married couples and can prevent a lot of this stuff from occurring.


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## bravenewworld (Mar 24, 2013)

jdawg2015 said:


> I don't know. FB is just so much more personal.
> 
> A wayward spouse can easily look up the person from the past and pick up right where they left off. One friend request and message send away. It's just so quick and easy.
> 
> *I'll say it again, I fully believe FB should be joint accounts for married couples and can prevent a lot of this stuff from occurring.*


Either you can trust someone - or you can't. It's really that simple. Personally, I find joint social media accounts off-putting. And my marriage was ruined via an FB "relationship." 

But if it wasn't FB, it would have been a private cell phone, PO Box, or some other method. Cheaters are going to cheat. Period.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

bravenewworld said:


> Either you can trust someone - or you can't. It's really that simple. Personally, I find joint social media accounts off-putting. And my marriage was ruined via an FB "relationship."
> 
> But if it wasn't FB, it would have been a private cell phone, PO Box, or some other method. Cheaters are going to cheat. Period.


If someone can't post it on the timeline, then that person should be a true friend and should be able to call, etc. This is my belief but FB when being used to have secrets if red flag.

Yes there are other methods but FB, IMO, just has that super fast path element too it that makes it a bit sinister.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

bravenewworld said:


> Either you can trust someone - or you can't. It's really that simple. Personally, I find joint social media accounts off-putting. And my marriage was ruined via an FB "relationship."
> 
> But if it wasn't FB, it would have been a private cell phone, PO Box, or some other method. Cheaters are going to cheat. Period.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with bravenewworld. Facebook is a tool for connecting and communicating. How people chose to connect is their own vice. I've been on myspace, facebook, twitter, instagram, linked in, mewe, etc. No EAs or PAs from it though.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

Thundarr said:


> I have to agree with bravenewworld. Facebook is a tool for connecting and communicating. How people chose to connect is their own vice. I've been on myspace, facebook, twitter, instagram, linked in, mewe, etc. No EAs or PAs from it though.


I understand your point but TAM is loaded with people posting about what there spouses are doing on FB. Very common.

So easy to look someone up from the past can be a curse as much a blessing.

Having frank discussions about online usual with your SO is important IMO. Keep things out of the grey zone. Either someone's true friend or foe....


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

jdawg2015 said:


> I understand your point but TAM is loaded with people posting about what there spouses are doing on FB. Very common.
> 
> So easy to look someone up from the past can be a curse as much a blessing.
> 
> Having frank discussions about online usual with your SO is important IMO. Keep things out of the grey zone. Either someone's true friend or foe....


Social media expedites the inevitable usually but I guess there's a number of cases where people in past years didn't cheat because the opportunity didn't arise but now opportunity exists. It seems better now that we can trust that a trustworthy partner had more opportunity but still was faithful.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

OP - How are you doing?


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