# Girls Night Out



## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

Long story short as possible. Wife and I are both in early 30s and been togeher for 10 years and have 1 child. My wife made friends with a newly divorced gal, she is nice nothing wrong with that. Then after a couple months she suggests a girls night out, since she is divorced she is getting sexual urges that needed to be acted on, whatever I get it.. She my wife and her go to a bar to get her laid. My should be home no later than 2:30am, I call her at 3am because she didnt come home. She said she is at her friend house waiting for her to return. The friend went home with a guy and for whatever reason my wife went to her place to wait for her and make sure she return safely. Tried to tell my wife how thats not cool and needs better communication but she was clearly drunk and not rational. I asked her when she was coming home and she said within the hour she just needed to sober up. I call again at 4am and she tells me she is just packing up to leave. I then fall asleep and wake up at 8am and she is still not home. So I call her and she too fell asleep. Im not happy about it but I can live with it since she is safe. She gets home and was telling me about begin a wing man for the first time and how fun it was to get her friend laid. I said what does that mean and she said well I got to flirt with different guys all night long to help my friend meet new people. I was then pissed, I told her that was NOT ok in my book. And she said well nothing happened I dont even let guys touch me, and I said then what do you do and she said just talk to them. I said talking is not flirting and she said well the talking is more sexual, but she makes it clear she is married and has a kid and is not interested in sex though. I said if I did the same thing with women would it be ok and she sat there for a moment and said well no it wouldn't be ok. I said then what makes it ok for you to do it? She sat there for a moment and said its not ok, it was wrong and I am so sorry for doing it, she said if I did it she would feel cheated on and completely disrespected. And we left it at that as she seemed to get the point. 

A month later she wants to go out again, I tell her remember last time, dont make that mistake again. And she said it wouldnt happen. This time she gets home a couple hours early and I asked her how things went and she told me she spent the last hour driving her friend plus her one night stand around town.. They were both drunk so my wife drove them to the drug store to get condoms and to the weed store to get some (legal here). Then she dropped them off at her house and then came home. She then starts telling me about how her friend was really nervous and having trouble talking to guys so my wife was nice enough to pick up the guys herself and then pass them onto her. Again??!! Really?? We get into a fight and then she breaks down telling me what she did was totally wrong and I should be mad at her and she is so sorry and it wont happen again and so on.. Then she wanted to have make-up sex so that happened..

Fast forward 2 weeks and I am having a bad day due to work and she bring up a concert that is at the bar she keeps going to with her friend. Being an ass I say why so you can flirt with guys all night long. She then jumps down my throat and tells me I am taking this way to far and nothing happened and she made it clear she was married and so on.. And she starts going into I am controlling her and wont even allow her to converse with males without chastising her. I said 2 weeks ago you were crying telling my what you did was wrong and it would never happen now your jumping on me calling me controlling and saying you can do what you want.

In short she told me her apologizing was all fake. She seen that I was upset and fixed the problem with a lie. She then just kept going on and on about I am so controlling by trying to limit who she can and cant talk to and that if she wants to flirt with a guy she can since there is zero intention for anything to actually happen. At some point I just gave up and quit talking to her and left the room. 

I am just looking for some outside option on this. I know for a fact if I was flirting all night with strangers my wife would be PISSED yet the double standard she holds makes it acceptable for her. 

Every time I try to bring it up anymore she just calls me controlling and says she can do what she wants and its not cheating since there its nothing physical happening. I say so its all emotional then and she say no I am just out having fun and trying to help my friend get what she wants.. 

I just feel like I cant get though to her on this.. Any thoughts? Am I in the wrong here?? If I am in the wrong I will have no problem saying I am sorry for over reacting, but flirting with strangers all night long seems a bit off to me when your a married person.. And using your friend as an excuse to get away with it is just pathetic to me..


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Maybe you should get a sitter and go check out this joint. And give her a bit of what's good for goose is good for the gander, to wake her stupid butt up. 

She is being disrespectful to you. Don't be the guy who stays at home watching the kids and wife gets to party as she sees fit. You go have some fun and see how she likes it. 

I cannot stand when people are disrespectful and then bring out the you are controlling me card.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

You're being played, and if you keep allowing it the odds are very slim she won't be sleeping with some of these guys she's flirting with, if she hasn't already. 
Tell her she can flirt with whoever she wants, just not as your wife. The choice is hers. Boundaries should be there for a reason. She has already betrayed you by seeking validation outside of your marriage, and don't let her kid you that she was doing all of this to help her friend out. She's thriving on the attention, and now that she has experienced it she will keep doing whatever she has to to keep it coming.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Adding..


She likes the attention she is getting..
It's powerful stuff. She is in a place that she is going to get into a situation soon. I just see most likely to cheat happening here. You need to put a stop on Dr going out with this girl. She wants to go out, you take her.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> Maybe you should get a sitter and go check out this joint. And give her a bit of what's good for goose is good for the gander, to wake her stupid butt up.
> 
> She is being disrespectful to you. Don't be the guy who stays at home watching the kids and wife gets to party as she sees fit. You go have some fun and see how she likes it.
> 
> I cannot stand when people are disrespectful and then bring out the you are controlling me card.


We have have done that maybe a dozen times over the past couple years, its actually a really nice county/western type bar. Probably the nicest one in the area. The only difference is when we go out together the last thing she ever wants to do is drink to much, yet it seems to be a staple when she goes out with any of her friends.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Tell your wife this "if you want to go to bars so guys can hit on you so you can get your kicks, you can go ahead and do so.....just not as my wife!" "I've made my boundaries clear! Cross them and there will be immediate consequences". 

ETA. Read your other thread. You my friend have a wife that's not attracted to you at all! Now, she's found something else to replace you......your marriage is toast! She's not going to stop. She'll lie about where's she's going and what's she's doing. 

Save yourself the heartache of seeing your wife flaunt her new lifestyle in front of you and file for divorce.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Tell her she can flirt with whoever she wants, just not as your wife. The choice is hers.


THIS.

Since you allowed the GNO in the first place, backpedaling is now required. Either they stop immediately or you will file. If you allow any middle ground, things will continue to get worse.

You should also get tested for STD's. My guess is she's screwed at least one guy from the bar.


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

I don't know if she cheated, but you'd be surprised at what can happen on a girls night out. Her false apology then make up sex would get my hackles up. Just sayin...

So here's the deal. If you are not willing to accept this behavior then you really need to do more than just talk with her. Talking with her and arguing with her is a waste of your breath because you've shown that after those discussions she can do whatever she wants without any real repercussions. So basically you are communicating that she has all the power and you aren't strong enough to stand up to her (not very masculine). If I were you and she goes out again, instead of trying to persuade her to not go I'd just change the locks and leave her bags on the front lawn. Tell her that if she wants to experience the single life with her friend then she's free to be single and you wish her the best. Then BSOLUTELY DON'T UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE engage her in argument when she comes home (never try to argue or rationalize with an upset women). Just say you've made your decision like she's made hers. If she really wants to be with you then let her show it by being sweet, loving, and devoted to you and your child. Anything else should be unacceptable to you.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

You just need to put a stop to it. Tell her she is not going to the concert without you. If she calls you controlling oh too bad. You are fighting for your marriage not a likeable contest.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

brooklynAnn said:


> You just need to put a stop to it. Tell her she is not going to the concert without you. If she calls you controlling oh too bad. You are fighting for your marriage not a likeable contest.


Clarification on that, she brought up the concert because she wanted for us to go together, this has nothing to do with her friend or going to the bar without me. She was actually trying to plan a legit date for us.


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## 247769 (May 18, 2016)

IMHO, stop it now or go with her. It's a matter of time before she too has a one night stand.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

Let's be optimistic and presume that she is up to now being truthful. Nothing happened, she is only talking, etc. (This would already be too far for me, but since you have tolerated it up to now...)

This road goes nowhere good. Someone who is in a committed, monogamous relationship should not be hanging out with someone looking to get laid. Period. These are two totally incongruous perspectives. I doubt you can stop her now, but you can't let it continue. Do you understand the implications of what I'm saying?


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Read your other thread. You my friend have a wife that's not attracted to you at all! Now, she's found something else to replace you......your marriage is toast! She's not going to stop. She'll lie about where's she's going and what's she's doing.


I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.

After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore. 

Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Tell her that you aren't being controlling, you are being a husband. That her that if she continues, she won't have a husband.

Or ..... If you want to know what she is actually up to .... Hire a PI (or get a friend she doesn't know to do it) and have him approach your wife and girlfriend the next time they are out for a girls night out. See how far your wife actually takes her flirting.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

This is not appropriate you wife is married, TO YOU. She is losing her attraction to men huh. I agree your wife is playing you. She may even be playing herself. Get prepared. I would basically ask her if she wants to be single. If so let her. This is not good. Not good at all. Frankly and I know people don't believe me but if it were me I would already be thinking about my options. Either she wants to be with YOU or she doesn't. No need to fight about it, but no need to waste time also.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

chris3320 said:


> according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general.


Holy crap this is complete and utter bullpucky bull****!!!


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

SadSamIAm said:


> Or ..... If you want to know what she is actually up to .... Hire a PI (or get a friend she doesn't know to do it) and have him approach your wife and girlfriend the next time they are out for a girls night out. See how far your wife actually takes her flirting.


This is one of the type of bars that has a couple professional photographers walking around all night long photographing and recording all night long. I have went onto their Facebook and looked over everything from those evenings and have seen my wife in many pictures and videos and each time everything did in fact look harmless. But I understand that doesn't mean it necessarily was..


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think that it's just bizar that you wife goes out as the 'wing' woman to her friend. Then she drives her drunk friend and some drunk guy she just met around town. Talk about asking for something really bad to happen. 

There are better ways to met men than picking up drunk men at bars.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

When I was single I spend a lot of time in nightclubs and singles bars and in all modesty I was often hit on.If a woman came up to me acting as "wingman" for one of her friends I would go all out to score with the "wingman".For her to be helping her friends get a guy she would have to be attractive and confident and I found that combination irresistible.
But your wife isn't acting like a wingman.
She's acting like a pimp.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> Holy crap this is complete and utter bullpucky bull****!!!


So it seems, but if you have not seen my other thread from a couple months ago, it ALMOST makes sense with how things have been paying out..


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> I think that it's just bizar that you wife goes out as the 'wing' woman to her friend. Then she drives her drunk friend and some drunk guy she just met around town. Talk about asking for something really bad to happen.
> 
> There are better ways to met men than picking up drunk men at bars.


Dont ask me, it was her friends idea. She tried Tinder and the like without good luck and figured an in person experience would be better.. Why my wife decided to chauffeur a drunk stranger around is beyond me.. I told her it was stupid and she was confused and said he was nice and obviously not a killer and again I was making a big deal about nothing..


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Why can't you tag along with her and single divorced friend? 

I find it gross that she needs to be there watching her friend kissing some barfly and getting stoned! 


Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

Andy1001 said:


> When I was single I spend a lot of time in nightclubs and singles bars and in all modesty I was often hit on.If a woman came up to me acting as "wingman" for one of her friends I would go all out to score with the "wingman".For her to be helping her friends get a guy she would have to be attractive and confident and I found that combination irresistible.
> But your wife isn't acting like a wingman.
> She's acting like a pimp.


I bought up the fact the she can think its totally harmless, and it truly may be... But I told her the guy on the other end believes its 110% real and is doing all he can to get her naked.. Her response was good for them its not going to happen because I tell them I'm happily married with a kid. And I say I have been that guy before (in my single days), and that just means they need to try harder.. The majority of guys looking to get laid could care less about a ring on the finger.. And she had no response to that..


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

This is bogus from the beginning.

Women in bars don't need a wingman to get laid. 

She's doing the "wingman" thing for what she gets out of it, not for her friend's benefit. 

You are spot on demanding and holding to the boundaries you've defined.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

MrsAldi said:


> Why can't you tag along with her and single divorced friend?
> 
> I find it gross that she needs to be there watching her friend kissing some barfly and getting stoned!
> 
> ...


I could if I wanted to, I am just over the bar scene.. I have been there and done that TOO many times in my life haha.. Now the only time I typically go to a bar/night club is for a concert or a celebration of some sort. I am no longer one to just go because its the weekend..


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Time for you to tag along. I don't care if you hate bars. Do it. You do not let her go to bars alone. You don't go to bars alone either. It's a simple rule and any married couple would agree to this. Are you checking out her phone records? I'd buy Dr Fone and scan her phone to see what she's deleting. I bet you find something.

Why doesn't she find you attractive? Are you fat? Are you bald? Are you short? Your wife should be lusting for you.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> I bought up the fact the she can think its totally harmless, and it truly may be... But I told her the guy on the other end believes its 110% real and is doing all he can to get her naked.. Her response was good for them its not going to happen because I tell them I'm happily married with a kid. And I say I have been that guy before (in my single days), and that just means they need to try harder.. The majority of guys looking to get laid could care less about a ring on the finger.. And she had no response to that..


To be honest a lot of women would explain that they hadn't done this type of thing before and weren't into one night stands themselves.
This would be the following morning though.
Here's a bit of free advice.With all these photos that your wife can be seen in,check is she wearing her wedding band.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

GuyInColorado said:


> Time for you to tag along. I don't care if you hate bars. Do it. You do not let her go to bars alone, it's a simple rule. You don't go to bars alone either. Any married couple would agree to this.


Thats where it gets somewhat tricky, see I do go to bars once or twice a month with my guy friends.. So she feels she should be able to do the same. The difference is she is going to night club type bars, what used to be called "meat markets" so to speak.. And she will be there until they close at 2am..

When I go out with my friends to bars, we go to that local neighborhood bar type places and have late dinner and a couple drinks and play some pool and home by 9pm or so.. And the place we go to, has maybe a dozen other patrons, most of which are the regular drunks. And they would never be a group of single women looking to hook up with anyone..


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> I could if I wanted to, I am just over the bar scene.. I have been there and done that TOO many times in my life haha.. Now the only time I typically go to a bar/night club is for a concert or a celebration of some sort. I am no longer one to just go because its the weekend..


If this is true, you'll soon be over the marriage scene as well. Honestly, your ambivalent attitude makes me doubt the veracity of your entire story.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


Apparently, she's still attracted to the sexual nature of the opposite sex. Perhaps she likes the voyeurnistic aspect of other people(friend) having sex. At least that's gist I got from your opening post.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> If this is true, you'll soon be over the marriage scene as well. Honestly, your ambivalent attitude makes me doubt the veracity of your entire story.


I have zero proof anything has happened so I should be divorcing her over this? 

I guess I am just another internet troll looking for attention.. On the TAM forum of all places..

You caught me 

Thanks for the laugh guys you can all go home now... :slap:


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

I would have money on her already cheating. Sorry, but just too many things going on.

Time to start digging. And whatever you do, do not bring up your suspicions. Period.

Start by looking at the phone bill.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

Tobyboy said:


> Apparently, she's still attracted to the sexual nature of the opposite sex. Perhaps she likes the voyeurnistic aspect of other people(friend) having sex. At least that's gist I got from your opening post.


That is something that really got me, if you read my thread from a while back.. Its another long read.. Basically she has lost all interest in sex yet will do it on a regular basis just to keep me happy. My wifes friend is aware of our sexual issues as well. So why would my wifes friend want someone who is not interested in sex to tag along for the sole reason of getting laid?? My wife is seriously the LAST person that should be giving advice on anything sexual related.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Here is the problem, Chris. Her words say it is disrespectful. Her actions? They say:

Too bad, I will do it anyway.

Start digging. Now. 

Look through any social media accounts to which you have access. 

Look at the phone bill for any frequently texted number. 

Do you know the passcode on her phone? Dig through it when she is asleep.

Sorry, man, but again, my money is on an active affair.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

chris3320 said:


> That is something that really got me, if you read my thread from a while back.. Its another long read.. *Basically she has lost all interest in sex yet will do it on a regular basis just to keep me happy. * My wifes friend is aware of our sexual issues as well. So why would my wifes friend want someone who is not interested in sex to tag along for the sole reason of getting laid?? My wife is seriously the LAST person that should be giving advice on anything sexual related.


I've seen this one play too many times.

Read between the lines. She's lost interest IN YOU. 

Better wake up


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

And one more time:

Do not confront! It will make obtaining evidence that much harder.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Here is the problem, Chris. Her words say it is disrespectful. Her actions? They say:
> 
> Too bad, I will do it anyway.
> 
> ...


Yes I have access to everything, she doesn't attempt to hide anything and I have found nothing that would be incriminating, nothing even remotely close to being suspicious.

I can check her social media any time I want to and there is nothing, her cell phone charges has nothing out of the ordinary, I have actually searched her entire phone when she was in the shower once and nothing at all.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> I have zero proof anything has happened so I should be divorcing her over this?
> 
> I guess I am just another internet troll looking for attention.. On the TAM forum of all places..
> 
> ...


A sane man might think that a man in your position could somehow rise above his lack of interest in the club scene to actually make an effort to save his marriage. I could be wrong. Maybe your strategy of doing little more than chiding her while she ignores your pleas will payoff in the end.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

Her next few GNO's have a PI follow them.A female one. You'll get your answers


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> A sane man might think that a man in your position could somehow rise above his lack of interest in the club scene to actually make an effort to save his marriage. I could be wrong. Maybe your strategy of doing little more than chiding her while she ignores your pleas will payoff in the end.


 I could walk away if I wanted to, I go follow her every move if I wanted to.

I am one to give people their space and if it fails on me than it was dentin to fail in the first place.

Just because I watch over her every move does not mean things will turn out great. Just because I attempt to force her to change doesn't mean she will. So why ruin every minute of my life to question what she is doing and when it will fall apart.

What I am doing is trying to better understand what is happening, more mentally than anything else. 

To many people run straight to divorce without actually really knowing whats going on in the first place.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

How is going to the bar with her equivalent to divorce? What are you talking about?

Maybe it's good that you are giving her space. If you were present, it might make picking up strange men a little awkward for her.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

So you are basically waiting on her to trip up...then you would react. I can understand in a way.

People continue to do things that they know will lead to trouble because they are reaping a reward. In this case....excitment
..picking up new men....knowing she still got it....feeling powerful...sexy...wanted...the list goes on.

These are things she must think you can't give her in your marriage. 

I wish you well on your journey and I hope it all works out for you.....


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.


Uh huh. 

Let me translate that into lady-speak for you.

She's not losing her attraction to men - she's losing here attraction to *you*. And that will no doubt shut her 'machinery' down as far as desire for you or the need to be intimate with you in any way - not just sexually.

She's VERY much enjoying her 'single' lifestyle at the bars - it sounds as though she was just about dead at home.

And I have to admit I called you a dumb fool the *second* I read the part where she plied you with sex after your hissy fit when she got home. 

Oh man, are you REALLY that easily manipulated? :surprise:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


That's what they say when they want to soften the blow or keep you in the dark. The consequences of telling you the truth are too high. You've already admitted that she lies to you about this kind of thing.


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## chris3320 (Nov 29, 2015)

zookeeper said:


> How is going to the bar with her equivalent to divorce? What are you talking about?
> 
> Maybe it's good that you are giving her space. If you were present, it might make picking up strange men a little awkward for her.


So because I am not interested in going to the bar you think my entire post is fake? 

How will me going to the bar prove anything? Will I get to be her wingman? 

Thats like asking, would you speed if there is a cop behind you. 

And as for the PI comments I have read, I could do that as well. But everyone is expecting a yep she is cheating on you.. But what if, just what if she is telling the truth and it really is pretty harmless? 

I realize that a large percentage on this forum tend to expect the worst, but thats not always the case and thats not the way I think. Its kind of an innocent until proven guilty. I have zero proof of anything, even when I go searching for proof I find nothing. Cell phone records, social media access, hell I have done as far as tracking her GPS on her phone to see if she lies about where she is and so far I have found NOTHING.. 

I guess I am just keeping that sliver of hope that it is harmless.. But dont get me wrong I am not just sitting around with my thumb up my ass and doing nothing and just giving into her...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

chris3320 said:


> So because I am not interested in going to the bar you think my entire post is fake?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Uhhh...yeah...you are. Look...it very well may be innocent at this point but you sound like you're waiting for Hiroshima before you do anything about it. This IS a ticking time bomb. Just a matter of time. 

ETA: ...and alcohol. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Here is the problem, Chris. Her words say it is disrespectful. Her actions? They say:
> 
> Too bad, I will do it anyway.
> 
> ...


Could be an active affair, but I have my doubts. From OP's account, this has happened twice so far. It may be ONS's, but I doubt there's an ongoing affair with only two instances of her going out. Trawling for D is more likely, and much less chance of something awkward showing up on a phone or Facebook.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> Every time I try to bring it up anymore she just calls me controlling and says she can do what she wants and its not cheating since there its nothing physical happening. I say so its all emotional then and she say no I am just out having fun and trying to help my friend get what she wants..


This is called DARVO. If you're not familiar with it, you should look it up.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> *Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long*, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


This is deeply troubling. I believe that she has become achrissexual. Also, she is being anything but honest. If she were she would have no desire to be wingwoman for her friend. Her friend is just a convenient excuse. She is fulfilling her need for male attention and growing her desire for men, all without you. Do you truly not see where this path leads? It may be too late already for once a person gets a taste it is nearly impossible for many to not crave more.

If she is referring to you as controlling then she disagrees that her behavior is wrong and has no intention of stopping. The problem is that the reawakening of her desires is being facilitated by others which means her desire is for others. It is usual for these desires to be rather broad in their scope but it is very rare that they will be for you. You see you are old and available and lack the allure of mysterious and new. Her mind is not sufficiently developed to "reinvent" you mentally so you therefore cannot be the object of her desire nor can you satisfy her want for male attention, you are too familiar.

So then, your only recourse to save the union is to reinvent yourself to her while simultaneously limiting her interaction with other men. The more efficacious you are at the former the easier the latter will be however, be warned that her view of you may simply be too far gone towards the familiar in which case your efforts will be fruitless. Either way it will be difficult and require tenacity on your part if you are to have any success. I wish you good fortune.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> So because I am not interested in going to the bar you think my entire post is fake?
> 
> How will me going to the bar prove anything? Will I get to be her wingman?
> 
> ...


What does it hurt then to find out for sure?

Why do you hesitate to check it out?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> And as for the PI comments I have read, I could do that as well. But everyone is expecting a yep she is cheating on you.. *But what if, just what if she is telling the truth and it really is pretty harmless? *
> 
> I realize that a large percentage on this forum tend to expect the worst, but thats not always the case and thats not the way I think. Its kind of an innocent until proven guilty. I have zero proof of anything, even when I go searching for proof I find nothing. Cell phone records, social media access, hell I have done as far as tracking her GPS on her phone to see if she lies about where she is and so far I have found NOTHING..
> 
> I guess I am just keeping that sliver of hope that it is harmless.. But dont get me wrong I am not just sitting around with my thumb up my ass and doing nothing and just giving into her...


 I wouldn't consider self admitted flirting with "sexual" conversations harmless.


> she said well the talking is more sexual,"


Especially tied to this:


> "In short she told me her apologizing was all fake. She seen that I was upset and fixed the problem with a lie."


 Maybe your tolerance is higher than mine, but you are on a downward spiral.
The first night where she was gone all night wreaks of a ONS. Talking to you on the phone while telling him to keep quiet. I'll repeat, You're being played. If you're OK with that, then the advice here is a waste of time. If you're not OK with that , buck up set your boundaries and hold her to the consequences of breaking them.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

chris3320 said:


> So because I am not interested in going to the bar you think my entire post is fake?


Then what is the purpose of the post?



chris3320 said:


> How will me going to the bar prove anything? Will I get to be her wingman?
> 
> Thats like asking, would you speed if there is a cop behind you.


Would it not prove your resolve to attempt to find an answer? Also, if she has become familiar with any males at the bar they may approach her in spite of your presence which may be telling. 



chris3320 said:


> And as for the PI comments I have read, I could do that as well. But everyone is expecting a yep she is cheating on you.. But what if, just what if she is telling the truth and it really is pretty harmless?


What if? 



chris3320 said:


> I realize that a large percentage on this forum tend to expect the worst, but thats not always the case and thats not the way I think. Its kind of an innocent until proven guilty. I have zero proof of anything, even when I go searching for proof I find nothing. Cell phone records, social media access, hell I have done as far as tracking her GPS on her phone to see if she lies about where she is and so far I have found NOTHING..


It is not that we expect the worst, we hear the worst because people rarely come her with serious concern and later say it was all a fabrication of their mind. And she has been proven guilty of irresponsibility, prevarication and defiance. How much guilt are you looking for? Her friend has no problem with one night stands and if she is her wingwoman then maybe her friend is her alibi. It would be difficult to find ongoing evidence of a one night stand.



chris3320 said:


> I guess I am just keeping that sliver of hope that it is harmless.. But dont get me wrong I am not just sitting around with my thumb up my ass and doing nothing and just giving into her...


No, you are using the thumb to type.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

You'll probably not find anything on her phone. She's "old school sexting"....you know.... face to face.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


Shes telling you that so she don't have to have sex with you! Belive me she attracted to all the guys buying her drinks and I bet the ranch she has rode a cowboy or two during her drunken flirting and new exciting men the are complementing her.

Pull you head out of your ass and wipe the **** out of your eyes and look at whats going on!


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Whos controling who?

Shes controling you with lies and manuplitation.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

After reading your other thread, your wife's sudden desire to go to bars and flirt with men is a pretty much a death knell for your marriage.

She's clearly attracted to other men; she's clearly NOT attracted to you. Women who are attracted to their husbands don't have starfish duty sex.

I'm with @farsidejunky... I think she's already been unfaithful to you. For sure, the night she pulled the all-nighter with the drunk friend they probably BOTH had guys who stayed the night.


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## StuckInLove (Jun 6, 2017)

Try to picture this scenario...

Your wife and her friend get to the bar, sit down, order a drink. The girl talk flood gates open fully, and they talk about -literally- everything. Obviously, they will talk about her friend's (failed) marriage, and very likely are going to eventually talk about yours too. Eventually they get into talking about your wife's sex life. She starts to go on about how she loves you, but maybe isn't quite as fulfilled in that area anymore. The conversation goes on and your wife's friend starts talking about how liberating it is to be single again. Your wife says that she's not really interested in all that stuff anymore and is "becoming a-sexual" (just as she told you). Her friend convinces her that she's "still got it" and will prove it to her by inviting two single guys to chat with them. Your wife inevitably notices that not only is this guy totally into talking to her, but she's loving this re-discovered attention, and feels a way she hasn't in many years. Now, her mind goes wild and starts considering what it would be like if she divorced you. She feels guilty, but also is selfishly testing the waters, and is justifying her considerations by blaming you for being controlling.

If this was the case, I'd expect your wife to be acting exactly as she is. Nothing wrong was done YET, but as many have said, "that one time" is on the horizon.

I'd be curious to know what was the cause of her friend's failed marriage. Apologies if this was already discussed somewhere in the 85 pages of this thread.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Calling it. Unless you make serious changes she will be gone in 6 months. You need to figure out why you are so passive. Seems like you really don't care much. Sorry to be harsh but as far as being a wife to you your wife is garbage. You would be better to be alone so you can find someone who wants to be home with you not single to mingle. Life is too short.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Married women should not conduct themselves this way. The word you need to use is unacceptable. I am a betting man, and I bet you she was not alone at her friends apartment if you catch my drift. Put your ****ing foot down and be a man.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Chris i read your other post and i have to say having just finished reading this post i feel like i am reading about two different women, but given the assumption that she is not suffering from Dissociative identity disorder, that she may be reacting to this a sexual thoughts by engaging with her friend as a way to test her own personal theory about it.
Does flirting with other men excite her? 
Does she feel safe wearing a wed ring and acting on behalf of her friend, this way she can test the water without getting wet?
Is she also at the same time testing the female component as well, does this allow her to spend more time with the same sex?
The question becomes if this is indeed her testing the waters with her trying to explore whether her sexual or non-sexual desire exist out side of partnering with you...you have one of two outcomes....either A she does indeed find that she could care less of either sex and will stay with you faithfully but in a non-sexual manner. 
Or and the bigger concern is that she is indeed sexual aroused with the attention of either men or women and eventually she will cross that line...
Have you thought to place a VAR in her car when she leaves to go out? At least you will get her perhaps talking to her friend. BTW why did the friend divorce?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

GNO don't always equal cheating or trawling for hook ups. At least not in my experience. I'm not a fan of "girls nights" anyway, preferring the company of my husband. I have been out with "the girls" a few times - a concert, dinner, a movie, but not dancing/bars etc. Even if we did go to a bar, I would NEVER conduct myself the way OP's wife has. Not in a million years. I would never disrespect my husband - or myself for that matter - that way.

Bottom line OP is you're her husband, and you have a problem with what she's doing. She should be taking that on board and considering your feelings. She isn't. Time to clarify your boundaries and that they will be enforced if crossed.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

StuckInLove said:


> Try to picture this scenario...
> 
> Your wife and her friend get to the bar, sit down, order a drink. The girl talk flood gates open fully, and they talk about -literally- everything. Obviously, they will talk about her friend's (failed) marriage, and very likely are going to eventually talk about yours too. Eventually they get into talking about your wife's sex life. She starts to go on about how she loves you, but maybe isn't quite as fulfilled in that area anymore. The conversation goes on and *your wife's friend starts talking about how liberating it is to be single again. * Your wife says that she's not really interested in all that stuff anymore and is "becoming a-sexual" (just as she told you). *Her friend convinces her that she's "still got it" and will prove it to her by inviting two single guys to chat with them. Your wife inevitably notices that not only is this guy totally into talking to her, but she's loving this re-discovered attention, and feels a way she hasn't in many years. Now, her mind goes wild and starts considering what it would be like if she divorced you.* She feels guilty, but also is selfishly testing the waters, and is *justifying her considerations by blaming you for being controlling.*
> 
> ...


Great breakdown of how these things usually go down. To many times, GNO puts a wife on the road to adultery. Especially with your wife hanging with a divorcee. The WORST type of friend for a healthy marriage.

I agree with @farsidejunky that the chances are very high, that your wife has become sexually active with a douche at the club. (They always go for the douchiest guy) 

After recent divorcees, married mothers in long term marriages are the surest bet for a first night lay. It would be a low risk bet that your wife and her friend took a couple of guys back to her place for wanton sex on the 1st night they were out ALL NIGHT. 

Noticed how she went from seeing that her actions are F'd up to calling you controlling. That meme is so tired but it always seems to stop nice guy husbands in their tracks. Don't fall for her excrement test. You have every right to know what your wife and mother of your kid is up to. 

Also, I bet she's completely different when she's all dolled up and tipsy compared to when she goes with you. Woman get trunk so they can blame the liquor for doing what she really wanted to all along. Gives her an out. "I'm not a *****, I was drunk and he took advantage."

It may seem like we're being overly pessimistic but we've seen this movie so many times. You need to do some digging. I fear that she has a guy that she regularly hooks up with. Pay a friend that she doesn't know to scope out the scene. You'll get your answers.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

You have a problem with this as you should. If she doesn't care about how this is affecting you then that tells you all you need to know. This friend is toxic. GNO's are toxic. You shouldn't trust this. She is staying out all night. Getting drunk. Obviously doesn't care what you think. 

Can you live like this?

Are you willing to wait until she has found your replacement?


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

zookeeper said:


> Let's be optimistic and presume that she is up to now being truthful. Nothing happened, she is only talking, etc. (This would already be too far for me, but since you have tolerated it up to now...)
> 
> This road goes nowhere good. *Someone who is in a committed, monogamous relationship should not be hanging out with someone looking to get laid.* Period. These are two totally incongruous perspectives. I doubt you can stop her now, but you can't let it continue. Do you understand the implications of what I'm saying?


Yeah this.

My wife and I have a recently divorced friend, and I'm sure at some point this will come up. Maybe she won't ask my wife to go with her (she does have single friends), but if she does, nuh-uh.

I actually completely trust my wife, but I also don't want her in that environment, period, least of all acting as a wing-woman or having to babysit. Not cool. It's not the temptation I'm afraid of (though alcohol and this kind of environment doesn't mix) it's the situations she could be put in.

We spend time with her as a couple, and so far that's been it. If they wanted to go out and get their nails done or just hang out at her place without me - totally cool. No problem with having a single girlfriend. But being a wingman/woman is for your single friends. Or get your own damn ass laid, it's not hard these days. It's just an excuse to re-live your youth, IMO.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Why did you post here? 

Did you post here to gather insight and see what other people think about your situation and offer their perspectives and and opinions?

Or are you posting so you can convince us that everything is actually on the up and up with you wife despite the evidence to the contrary??

No one here was born yesterday and then just happened to fall off the turnip truck here today.

People are on this forum because they've been chumped and had the wool pulled over their eyes one too many times and now they've come here, shared notes, got advice from those that have been there done that and have now learned to cut through the smoke and mirrors and see through the BS.

Get a trusted friend that your wife doesn't know or hire a PI to follow her. 

This is the report you're going to get at the end I the night.

She's leaving your house dressed nice but not ****ty.

She goes to her friends house that then come out with 6" stiletto heels, a mini skirt up her crack and her boobs falling out her shirt and a new layer of make up.

Then they go to the bar and have dudes circling them like sharks in the water where she spends the night grinding on various dudes on the dance floor, making out with a few in the corner periodically and then slipping into the rest room with one and then leaving with another at closing time and going to your friends house untill everyone leaves the next morning.

It's ok to want to believe the best. It's ok to want to believe what she tells you and it's normal to have a period of denial.

But don't be dumb. Don't be dumb and don't let anyone pee on your shoes and tell you that you're standing in the rain. 

We'll know what's happening here including you. If you really thought this was ok, you would not have written your story here.

You've done your husbandly duty and have defended her honor and stood up for her.

Now it's time to face up to reality and find out what the full story really is so you can make an informed decision on what to do about it.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

brooklynAnn said:


> Maybe you should get a sitter and go check out this joint. And give her a bit of what's good for goose is good for the gander, to wake her stupid butt up.
> 
> She is being disrespectful to you. Don't be the guy who stays at home watching the kids and wife gets to party as she sees fit. You go have some fun and see how she likes it.
> 
> I cannot stand when people are disrespectful and then bring out the you are controlling me card.



I completely agree. I'm commenting on this thread because I had a quasi similar situation about 8 or 9 years ago. My wife, then in her early 40s, had a group of friends that decided to start doing GNOs. The youngest of our three kids had just started school and my wife had started exercising regularly again and walking our dogs on the beach daily.

My wife had been in mommy mode for a dozen years and I wasn't unhappy that she seemed to be coming out of it. In fact, I was fairly supportive of it.....at first. Well, one of her four friends had just gone through a divorce and this woman, although attractive, always wanted to go out with my wife because she was the hottest of the group and was great at attracting the guys over to them. Once this dynamic changed and one of their group was actively looking to hook up, I began to object to this activity. Prior to this happening, all 4 of the girls that did these GNOs were married.

I made my displeasure known to my wife but she insisted it was harmless and was having fun. I get it, I really do. It's easy and commonplace for women, I believe, to think that they're a mommy first and a woman second, instead of the other way around, and all the new attention is exciting. Rather than putting my foot down firmly and setting a hard boundry, which I was very tempted to do, I decided on a different tact.

We had a baby sitter from down the street that my two youngest liked and I told my wife that every time she went out for a GNO, that I would call our sitter and go out with my friends too. This action had a double whammy effect. First, my wife had no worries when I was home watching the kids because she completely trusted me. Although we both liked our baby sitter, she was not the same as a parent and so my wife would be more concerned about the kids when she would go out.

Secondly, and most importantly, she now had to worry about what I was up to. I told her that if she was going to go out and get hit on, then I was going to do likewise. I had plenty of success running the clubs before she and I were married and she knew that. I don't think she cared much at all for the idea of me hanging at the bars and chatting it up with other women.

It only took two or maybe three times of doing this before my wife came to me and said that she didn't want to do GNOs anymore. It was her idea and not something I had to guilt her into or a conclusion I had to brow beat her to reach. She hasn't been on a GNO since. I think she became intoxicated at the attention she got and took me for granted because I would stay home with the kids. Once I changed that little dynamic by going out as well, it shut it down completely, which was the desired result all along. Problem solved.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> So because I am not interested in going to the bar you think my entire post is fake?
> 
> How will me going to the bar prove anything? Will I get to be her wingman?
> 
> ...


If its all harmless fun you spend a few bucks on a PI and its all good. If not well I am sorry to hear that. But clearly the number if red flags you have posted and the general consensus is she is hiding things from you. Is that not why you are posting here?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Lostinthought61 said:


> BTW why did the friend divorce?


This is a very good question... if I want to understand the attitudes that come from people, good or bad , I look at their friends.

I keep falling back to your initial post in this thread... have you ever fallen asleep packing up to leave?

Up and moving about.. phone, keys, purse.

Did you ask yourself what would she have to "pack up"?


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## xxxSHxYZxxx (Apr 1, 2013)

You should be mad. First off a married man or woman shouldn't be flirting for any reason. It is incredibly disrespectful. Add to it that she tells the guy she's happily married but continues to flirt is just telling the guy to try harder. 

It's not harmless if it is a boundary that you made clear and she doesn't give a **** about. 

It's not harmless when she blatantly tells you that she doesn't care about how you feel. 

It Is harmless because she IS getting something out of the flirting and she is trying to protect what she's getting from you stopping it. 

She's playing you man. She may not have cheated yet bit you're going to have a battle a head of you if you don't squash this **** now. 

Plus I think it's pretty evident that that asexual stuff she was telling you before is bull****. She wouldn't be trying to fight you about this flirting thing if it wasn't.

Also, stop being so pissy about the advice you're given. You came here asking...

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

For a moment let's assume she hasn't cheated (yet). But she is clearly having fun and enjoying the stimulation of being out in clubs, flirting drinking and dancing.

OP, if you can find a way to create a similar fun atmosphere for you and she to enjoy together...you should do so.

You both need to be dating and flirting with each other. You need to keep up the mating dance. All couples who have good long term sex lives understand this.

I have not read your other thread so maybe I wouldn't say this if I had. Maybe you guys are already doomed.

But if you aren't and if she's not cheating, you do have a way to get her feeling that high she's been feeling but to feel it from and about YOU.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Chris, I have read both of your threads now and here are some of my thoughts on this.

Sometimes its hard to accept the obvious when you are too close to it. You said earlier when asked about using a PI to uncover more, "what if she is telling the truth and it is as she says". Well I put it to you "what if she is cheating or looking to cheat - what then ?" 

So here is what seems very obvious to me and again, without more proof one can not be 100% sure"

She married you and may have been borderline attracted to you or very attracted to you at the time.

Marriage kicks in, baby arrives and all is not what she thought it would be. This is not really addressed firmly and in the right way even though you may think you did.

In any case she loses attraction to you and eventually feeds you some line about becoming asexual. This may be because she just wants to keep you at bay since she is not attracted to you or maybe even because she wants to stay loyal to someone else.

With her "divorced party gal friend situation", she has a perfect vehicle for (a) finding someone else; and (b) exiting this marriage when she has found the right one. And she is very clearly acting on this. I agree with some of the comments that have been said so far: a woman in a meat market doesn't really need a wing man to get laid; she may very well have not been alone at her friends apartment; she may have been driving around with more than just her friend and ONS pick up (she may have had her own bf there too); it is very easy to maintain a clean email account, phone account etc with a burner phone and secret email elsewhere. Also it is very easy to make it appear that all is well in the bar posted pictures and videos.

So in summary - she is not attracted to you at all now and may have acted on it already (good chance that she has). In any case she is enjoying the flirting (and more).

So what are you going to do about it ? Remember you were considering having an affair yourself, so why wouldn't she if she has gone off you? Do you really want to fix this ? And for a better reason than just "it will be bad for my son if we split"? You also said something bizarre by considering an approved affair for yourself since you are not getting the right amount and quality of sex ?!?!? If you want to end the marriage then just do it. If you want the truth then go into proper stealth mode and listen to the people here about how to do this so that at the very least you have the truth. But don't bury your head in the sand!!


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

Mostlycontent said:


> I completely agree. I'm commenting on this thread because I had a quasi similar situation about 8 or 9 years ago. My wife, then in her early 40s, had a group of friends that decided to start doing GNOs. The youngest of our three kids had just started school and my wife had started exercising regularly again and walking our dogs on the beach daily.
> 
> My wife had been in mommy mode for a dozen years and I wasn't unhappy that she seemed to be coming out of it. In fact, I was fairly supportive of it.....at first. Well, one of her four friends had just gone through a divorce and this woman, although attractive, always wanted to go out with my wife because she was the hottest of the group and was great at attracting the guys over to them. Once this dynamic changed and one of their group was actively looking to hook up, I began to object to this activity. Prior to this happening, all 4 of the girls that did these GNOs were married.
> 
> ...


I just have to say that this is brilliant. It shows you have balls and expect equality in the relationship. It also is preventing the power dynamic shift that the OP is facing right now in his relationship (even if he doesn't recognize it). Well played, sir!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

The real risk here is not so much that she will run off into the sunset with a new man leaving Chris behind.

The real risk is that she continues to have her fun and excitement with dudes at the club and having him be the live-in maid and babysitter. 

He is her chump and fool and he is being used for his free babysitting services while she dances and parties the night away.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Chris

Ok, a total different approach, something very easy for you to do. Obviously this woman who is divorced knows you, and her ex probably knows you as well. Now I get your over the whole bar scene, and I'm not saying you ACTUALLY go to one. You say your wife has lost interest with sex, yet enjoys flirting with men and drinking, both things she doesn't do with you. On top of that, and this I find to be the most classic, is that she tells the men she's flirting WITH, that she is happily married with a child to boot. Why I find this classic, is because she then tells you she lies and clearly is not happily married in the least. Time to fight this stupid logic with fire. 

Tell your wife you are going out with her friends ex, you are his wingman as he doesn't know how to reel the hook in. Tell her you are going to flirt as if your life depended on it, but tell your wife not to worry, you have no desire for sex just like her. Then tell her that even though you have no desire for sex, your flirting will just be talking and that you will also explain you are happily married with a child. Leave your house, go to a motel and spend the night. If your wife calls, slur your words and appear ****faced. Tell her you need to sober up for an hour. Don't go home. When she calls again, slid your words and tell her your packing up right now. Don't go home. When she calls again appear groggy like you fell asleep, tell her you are coming home. Don't go home. Check out of the motel in the morning. Drive around and do things you want to do. When she calls again tell her you are driving your friend around while they have more sex. Tell her you aren't sure when you will be home, stop controlling you, and that you need to go. Hang up.

Take the rest of the day and do what you desire. Go fishing, go on a walk, go sightseeing, but don't answer your phone. Go home for dinner, tell your wife what a good time you had and that you didn't realize how easy it is to flirt and pick up women. Sound very excited as you tell her what fun you had. When she gets mad break down and apologize, really sell it, get your academy award. Then two hours later, get mad, yell and scream about how controlling she is and that you can't go out for a little fun!! Then tell her you are doing it again next Friday night. Tell her she can't control you and you always say your happily married!! Give the same excuses she did, give her the same lies. Don't speak to her the rest of the night. The next night ask if she would like to resolve this issue.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

drifting on said:


> Chris
> 
> Ok, a total different approach, something very easy for you to do. Obviously this woman who is divorced knows you, and her ex probably knows you as well. Now I get your over the whole bar scene, and I'm not saying you ACTUALLY go to one. You say your wife has lost interest with sex, yet enjoys flirting with men and drinking, both things she doesn't do with you. On top of that, and this I find to be the most classic, is that she tells the men she's flirting WITH, that she is happily married with a child to boot. Why I find this classic, is because she then tells you she lies and clearly is not happily married in the least. Time to fight this stupid logic with fire.
> 
> ...


Only do this if you have a way to track what she does while you are out.

If your phone dies not ring, it should be even more suspicious.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> Clarification on that, she brought up the concert because she wanted for us to go together, this has nothing to do with her friend or going to the bar without me. She was actually trying to plan a legit date for us.


I'd go and pay attention to her behavior.

I stopped reading here. Sorry, I'll finish later.


> I said what does that mean and she said well I got to flirt with different guys all night long to help my friend meet new people.


Married spouses, regardless of gender, should not be playing the wing person for single people. All it takes is one oops and you are in the infidelity forum.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> And as for the PI comments I have read, I could do that as well. But everyone is expecting a yep she is cheating on you.. But what if, just what if she is telling the truth and it really is pretty harmless?
> .


You are posting here, defending her actions, worried, stressing, arguing with people you don't know and you have been called controlling by her as well. I'm going to say this is quite a ways past harmless now.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

drifting on said:


> Chris
> 
> Ok, a total different approach, something very easy for you to do. Obviously this woman who is divorced knows you, and her ex probably knows you as well. Now I get your over the whole bar scene, and I'm not saying you ACTUALLY go to one. You say your wife has lost interest with sex, yet enjoys flirting with men and drinking, both things she doesn't do with you. On top of that, and this I find to be the most classic, is that she tells the men she's flirting WITH, that she is happily married with a child to boot. Why I find this classic, is because she then tells you she lies and clearly is not happily married in the least. Time to fight this stupid logic with fire.
> 
> ...


That's manipulation and playing jr high girl games. 

Be an adult man.

Either catch her with her hand in the cookie jar and divorce her arse or set some reasonable boundaries and expectations for acceptable marital behavior.

If she wants to be a single woman out partying and screwing dudes all night, that is her perogative.

He can divorce her and she can be single. And along with single motherhood comes finding a job that can pay the rent, finding and paying for babysitters and making it to work and taking car of the child hung over the next morning.

He simply needs to grow a set and either set boundaries or dump her arse and get a life of his own.

As it stands right now she is getting to play single while he babysits, pays the rent and takes care of the house while she flirts and dances and gives BJs in the parking lot like a college girl. 

.....all while he lives a life of near celibacy and near sexless marriage.

The question needs to be asked is how is he benefitting from being married here??

Her benefit is obvious, she gets to play and be single and she gets a live-in, free babysitter and maid. 

Real life single motherhood isn't so glamorous.

Don't play games or manipulate . Either give her the freedom to be a real single mother. Or start expecting appropriate behavior of a wife and mother.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

So it is controlling if you do not want her going to a bar and chatting up guys. So the next time, you follow her to the bar, and start chatting up girls. Don't let her see you, until you are surrounded and are getting phone numbers. When she approaches, tell her, "I'm just talking to them". Have a great and loud time, and ignore your wife to a great extent. She will get a message.

Let her see what life will be like for you when you are single, and let her know that her nights at the bar will be severely limited as she will have to work, cook, clean, and be a caregiver. Won't be much fun.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> That's manipulation and playing jr high girl games.
> 
> Be an adult man.
> 
> ...




Oldshirt

I couldn't agree more with your post, but from what OP posts it appears she is just not getting it. OP isn't at the point of filing so advising to do so is in my opinion useless to advise. Perhaps if he mirrored her actions and she sees him go out and flirt she just may come to a point that she gets it. Is it childish? Yes. Is it a game? Yes. So while I agree with you, OP isn't ready or is simply in disbelief that a strong hard action is required from him. That's the only way this will be settled.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Ok, lets say she stops going to bars and goes no contact with her $|ut friend. What are you left with? A wife that is not attracted to you, has no respect for you, gives you pity sex and now resents you for ending her fun. Basically, you get what you had before, a s__t sandwich with extra pickles. Here's your opportunity to do what you should have done months ago...and that's divorce her sorry ass!


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Tobyboy said:


> Ok, lets say she stops going to bars and goes no contact with her $|ut friend. What are you left with? A wife that is not attracted to you, has no respect for you, gives you pity sex and now resents you for ending her fun. Basically, you get what you had before, a s__t sandwich with extra pickles. Here's your opportunity to do what you should have done months ago...and that's divorce her sorry ass!


Can't disagree with this!

Why should other men reap the rewards of her fun, flirty, party-girl side while OP is stuck with a self-proclaimed (by her) "asexual" wife who doles out starfish sex? Complete strangers are definitely getting the better end of this deal while OP's sexual needs are completely disregarded, even if it is ONLY flirting with these men.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I skipped ahead so maybe this has all been addressed, but...

OP you said you want to understand the behavior before acting. The majority here already understand it because we've read this exact behavior many times before.

First, sadly, many women can fixate on only one man at a time. When they meet a new man, for whatever reason, they redirect ALL their attention to the new, shiny guy who is full of possibilities. I didn't believe this but it's happened to many, many here.

Second, the FIRST reaction that a WS has when confronted about any behavior is to call out the BS as being controlling. This is probably as close to 100% of the time. Here WS can mean anything from starting to wander (best case scenario) to EA or PA

Third, women (and I suppose men) who are divorced are a TERRIBLE threat to a marriage. Then have a negative view of men and - here's the important part that guys don't get - girlfriends are very EMPATHETIC toward each other. Therefore, the divorcees friends start to relate to what they hear, and if their own relationship has any conflict, they can start to rewrite their own marriage in the same negative light they are hearing. Before you know if the H has always been lazy or controlling or a pig or whatever.

The toxic final component is the enviable lifestyle they see and imagine - freely being competed for by random guys. HUGE red flag

Women know this and therefore have strong boundaries - many here have strong OS friend unstated rules where they simply aren't alone with people of the OS even for work (same boundary for men BTW)

So this is hardly innocent because your W is right in the vortex of a VERY toxic and unsafe place for your marriage.

Believe this and act accordingly to "mate guard" and protect YOUR wife and marriage. 


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## m00nman (Nov 29, 2014)

Mostlycontent said:


> I completely agree. I'm commenting on this thread because I had a quasi similar situation about 8 or 9 years ago. My wife, then in her early 40s, had a group of friends that decided to start doing GNOs. The youngest of our three kids had just started school and my wife had started exercising regularly again and walking our dogs on the beach daily.
> 
> My wife had been in mommy mode for a dozen years and I wasn't unhappy that she seemed to be coming out of it. In fact, I was fairly supportive of it.....at first. Well, one of her four friends had just gone through a divorce and this woman, although attractive, always wanted to go out with my wife because she was the hottest of the group and was great at attracting the guys over to them. Once this dynamic changed and one of their group was actively looking to hook up, I began to object to this activity. Prior to this happening, all 4 of the girls that did these GNOs were married.
> 
> ...


Brilliant. I'm curious to know what the next step was and how you went about repairing your own marriage. There has to be a goal after all. I would think that the OP would want to know - if he hasn't checked out because the thread has nearly begun to devolve toward personal attacks. 

That being said, I think the OP needs to step back from being looking at the big picture. You two have a child together. That's a game-changer. Many questions come to mind: 

1: was it a difficult pregnancy?
2: did she ever express feeling unattractive?
3: were you attracted to her?
4: did you tell her that or express it in any way? 
5: was it a difficult delivery?
6: did you take time off work after the baby was born? 
7: did she exhibit any signs of post partum depression? 
8: did/do you make time for each other as a couple? I'm not talking about sex, I'm talking about time spent together without the baby outside of the home? 
9: at any point did you openly scoff or dismiss her feelings before this GNO drama came on the scene? 

The way I see it, I see this as sort of a challenge from her. She is looking for attention. Not only is it wrong for her to be looking elsewhere, but it is wrong for you to be taking her for granted. You need to be giving her an alternative. 

As for her "friend" I'm sorry but she's setting herself up to be hurt. An ONS can turn uglier than just your wife being unfaithful. There are STDs and rape to consider. If your previous protests concerning disrespect toward you were torched, then perhaps the possibility of being raped or getting an STD might scare her out of this immature behavior? 

Regardless, if there IS any concern about your wife being promiscuous then you need to stop any sort of sexual relations with her and get yourself tested for an STD. Hopefully your wife isn't still nursing, either.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Tobyboy said:


> What are you left with? A wife that is not attracted to you, has no respect for you, gives you pity sex and now resents you for ending her fun. Basically, you get what you had before, a s__t sandwich with extra pickles.


extra pickles... now that's funny and accurately descriptive in the same sentence. :surprise:


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

What I find sad in this and many similar situations is that a "new and shiny boytoy" can say a "wife" looks hot and sexy and it means so much more than when a long time loving "husband" says it.

Of course this is dependent on each individual, but from the war stories on this site it seems to fit most cases.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> I am just looking for some outside option on this.


I think in less than a year she'll be hoping up and down on Chad's penis in the passenger side of an IROC-Z unless you slap her with some hard consequences.

She basically told you she's remorseless. Now you draw a line in the sand. This is how:

1) Print out divorce papers and fill them ALL out. Pop into an attorney's office and grab a business card or do a free consult. You don't have to pay anything, yet anyway.

2) Lay them on the table and tell her, "These are YOUR copies. The next time you decide to flirt with some d0uche, so help me god I'll drive straight to the courthouse and file them."

3) Go 180 on her after that. ZERO emotion. Don't be sympathetic, don't fall for her crocodile tears, and don't be her emotional tampon. If you waiver and INCH, she won't believe you.

She will either respect you after that or she's too far gone. If the latter then you NEED to walk away and find a woman who will. And no more GNO's. That crap needs to end ASAP.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Here's a different (not better just different) possibility. Your wife had expressed less sexual attraction toward you. Could she be participating in the friend's ONS's as a third? FFM. That would explain the flirting, sexual conversations, being at her place all night, and her willingness to cart them all over town.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Could she be participating in the friend's ONS's as a third? FFM.


I think I'd be even more mad that I wasn't considered from the role of "M" in that incredibly unlikely but intriguing scenario.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Chris, you have got lots of great ideas here.
Before this happened and the lack of sex, what happened in your marriage. What type of complaints did you hear from your wife on a regular basis?

Incidentally, she may have started this whole thing off as a way to get you to notice but I think she has crossed a line or is about to, you need to take action, get a PI, VAR etc.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

Tell her that she makes the word "controlling" seem like a bad thing. It's called mate guarding. 

If not at first, she's now living her fantasy life through her friends actions. For now. Soon (if not already) she's destined for a taste herself. 

That explains her defensiveness. Ask her if this path is worth her marriage. Do not bluff. It's that serious. 

Then tell her the bull**** stops. Now. 

She actually wants you to take control. Stop posting here and take leadership and control of your marriage.

...then do massive sex to her. Frequently, cave man!! Take her. Keep her. She'll get the message.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Looks like we lost our OP.

I think he came here, not looking for insight and advice, but rather for people to pat his back and tell him he was a good guy and that she shouldn't be acting that way but that he was right and that she was only having fun and helping a friend and wasn't actually doing anything inappropriate.

Advice forums don't always support your predetermined position.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Yes, I think Chris may have left the building...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Agreed. Let him get over his butt-hurt. Perhaps he will respond then. 


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

A wise man once said: "you never really know your spouse until you see them on the other side of the courtroom." I'll go one step further and say "you don't really know your spouse until you secretly observe them at a bar/nightclub having drinks with friends". Trust me, I know because I've done this.

You might be thinking who is this woman that is hanging all over some random dude (or maybe not so random dude), laughing, flirting, dancing, hugging, etc. You may not recognize her as your W but at least that image will be burned in your memory and she cannot Darvo or gaslight her way out of it later. You see it, it's real, it's the truth. It will change your world.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> A wise man once said: "you never really know your spouse until you see them on the other side of the courtroom." I'll go one step further and say "you don't really know your spouse until you secretly observe them at a bar/nightclub having drinks with friends". Trust me, I know because I've done this.
> 
> You might be thinking who is this woman that is hanging all over some random dude (or maybe not so random dude), laughing, flirting, dancing, hugging, etc. You may not recognize her as your W but at least that image will be burned in your memory and she cannot Darvo or gaslight her way out of it later. You see it, it's real, it's the truth. It will change your world.


Yeah instead of telling him to hire a PI or get a friend to follow her, maybe he should get some kind of disguise and see it firsthand with his own eyes.

The only problem is he will probably confront her the first few minutes and not see the night's final conclusion.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


She was up at 4 am listening to her friend getting her brains screwed out, that's a turn on. She's going around picking up one night stands and flirting with guys and being a wing man? You do know what a wing man is right..

Dude for heaven's sake grow some b*lls and stop this madness, otherwise your wife will be banged..repeatedly.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

Chris needs to file for divorce. IMO, his wife isn't a wingman. She is picking up guys too


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

Why is this in Sex in Marriage?


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

TX-SC said:


> Why is this in Sex and Marriage?




They're married and she's having sex. DOH!


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

BetrayedDad said:


> I think I'd be even more mad that I wasn't considered from the role of "M" in that incredibly unlikely but intriguing scenario.


 Kinda ruled that out when she told him she was becoming asexual, and only giving him duty sex while griping about it. I don't think he's a candidate for that position any longer.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> We have have done that maybe a dozen times over the past couple years, its actually a really nice county/western type bar. Probably the nicest one in the area. The only difference is when we go out together the last thing she ever wants to do is drink to much, yet it seems to be a staple when she goes out with any of her friends.


Because she doesn't want to lose control with you around.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

chris3320 said:


> I figured someone would see that and comment on it. I do appreciate you taking the time to check out that thread as well.
> 
> After that thread we talked alot about her attraction towards me and come to find out.. according to her, she honestly feels she is losing her attraction towards men in general. Not that she is becoming lesbian or bisexual. She said she almost feels like she is heading down the path of an a-sexual and just not interested in anything/anyone at all. That she still love me but nothing really turns her on anymore.
> 
> Which confused me when she got so excited about flirting with other guys all night long, something she claimed she had zero interest in suddenly became interesting..


Except flirting with the OM at the bars. Wake up. She got turned on by flirting then wanted makeup sex. If she hasn't she will cheat on you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a Moderator:

Calling someone a troll, as TheTruthHurts so kindly pointed out, is a violation of forum rules. If you suspect it, use the report button.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

Tobyboy said:


> Ok, lets say she stops going to bars and goes no contact with her $|ut friend. What are you left with? A wife that is not attracted to you, has no respect for you, gives you pity sex and now resents you for ending her fun. Basically, you get what you had before, a s__t sandwich with extra pickles. Here's your opportunity to do what you should have done months ago...and that's divorce her sorry ass!


Yeah, this. This is how I've felt reading through this entire thread.

The thing is, she's not coming back from this. She's not gong to suddenly wake up (nor are you going to wake her up) one day and think "holy crap, I really love and am massively attracted to my husband". She just won't.

It's a no-win situation at this point, I'm afraid.

If you refuse to divorce your wife, OP, then your only choice is to ride this out. At some point, your wife's friend will tire of this scene (probably sooner than later) or she'll meet someone, then your wife's fantasy life will suddenly end. MAYBE at that point it'll hit her, but she'll likely just revert back to the way she's always been.

Here's the thing - as I said, her friend WILL tire of this, eventually. It's a phase, and it's common. Not only that, but she will meet somebody at some point and start dating. Then your wife will suddenly be on the outs and no longer needed. Until they break up, then she'll pop up again, but the clubs will have been a 'been there, done that' thing by that point.

Your wife will quickly go from being a wing-woman to a 3rd wheel. She won't be happy about having to go back to her mundane life. She'll eventually find some other outlet to get the same thrill (my ex wife joined a gym, for example) and you'll be right back where you started. Or, she'll go back to the same-old, same-old but have resentment at the lack of excitement.

There's a very slim chance that when her friend drops her that she'll wake up, but it IS slim.

But as I said, if you're not willing to divorce her, your ONLY chance is to ride this out and hope she bucks the odds and comes back with a renewed interest in you and your marriage. The reality is that every time you speak up about this, it just adds one more piece of resentment, and resentment can last a lifetime.

And here's the thing - not everybody is ready for marriage and kids and that kind of life when they take that plunge. Sometimes it takes a few years for this to sink in, or even just an opportunity to do so. In this, your wife failed. Her friend was given the opportunity to be single again, and your wife happily jumped into it with her. What does that say about her?

If you ask me, this has little or nothing to do with YOU, and everything to do with her. My ex wife went through a similar crisis. We married in our early-20's, and that ended in disaster. It wasn't ME that she rejected, it was the life - she wasn't ready for it. A mortgage, bills, responsibilities, taxes, etc. She hadn't lived anywhere but her parents house until a month before we got married. Luckily we didn't have kids.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Go read his other thread, his wife followed the cheater script and actions down to the "you are controlling" comment. He's in the denial, angry at everyone else, phase right now. Come on now, you all have seen this before.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

So, I forgot to ask, how was your sex IMMEDIATELY AFTER she came back from her wingman, super fun, you are controlling GNO?


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

She was drinking on the first "girls night out" and you still required her to drive home? WOW. There are all kinds of communication problems going on here.

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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> You're being played, and if you keep allowing it the odds are very slim she won't be sleeping with some of these guys she's flirting with, if she hasn't already.
> Tell her she can flirt with whoever she wants, just not as your wife. The choice is hers. Boundaries should be there for a reason. She has already betrayed you by seeking validation outside of your marriage, and don't let her kid you that she was doing all of this to help her friend out. She's thriving on the attention, and now that she has experienced it she will keep doing whatever she has to to keep it coming.


:iagree:

This exactly.

Stand up and be a man. Take a stand now. She is way out of bounds.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Dude, get real. Cheaters have a script, they all read the same book, and your wife has it memorized. Read a few threads in the Infidelity section, you will think you are reading your own life story. So sorry you are here, this place is a lot of help, if you take it.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Chris my man, you don't understand womanese at all, do you. Let me, as close to an expert in women as you're likely to find, translate it for you. "You are controlling" = you are fettering my desire to do mischief" If you notice, in virtually all cases where the "you are controlling" complaint is rendered, there is the husband's desire to stop the wife from doing fun stuff with other men somewhere in the mix and wife's wife's way of pushing back. I mean face it Chris, how many women would play the "your are controlling" card if the husband said, "I don't want you driving that 15 year old junk heap that may leave you stranded so lets go down and buy you a new loaded out model"? 
I'm not even going to get into her, "I'm losing interest in all men and becoming asexual". Make this your assignment and practice translating it.


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## dawnabon (Mar 11, 2017)

VladDracul said:


> Chris my man, you don't understand womanese at all, do you. Let me, as close to an expert in women as you're likely to find, translate it for you. "You are controlling" = you are fettering my desire to do mischief" If you notice, in virtually all cases where the "you are controlling" complaint is rendered, there is the husband's desire to stop the wife from doing fun stuff with other men somewhere in the mix and wife's wife's way of pushing back. I mean face it Chris, how many women would play the "your are controlling" card if the husband said, "I don't want you driving that 15 year old junk heap that may leave you stranded so lets go down and buy you a new loaded out model"?
> I'm not even going to get into her, "I'm losing interest in all men and becoming asexual". Make this your assignment and practice translating it.


I think that's cheaterese, not womanese, as I got the same "you're controlling" accusations thrown at me numerous times from my serial cheating spouse. For the same reason, of course. 

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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

Tobyboy said:


> Apparently, she's still attracted to the sexual nature of the opposite sex. Perhaps she likes the voyeurnistic aspect of other people(friend) having sex. At least that's gist I got from your opening post.


i too wondered if "she likes to watch". 
But then it would be just a hair line away from taking off her clothes and joining in.

A VAR in the car under her drivers seat will quickly tell you if she is lying or not. If it is just her driving, and the two of them in the back seat, you will hear that. If instead there are two guys in the car...you will know what the 2nd guy is for. Of it it is just her and one guy, or the three of them are talking about 3-some sex....well you get the idea.

Also i wold GPS the car to make sure she is going to the places she says she is going to. Like she drops off her friend at her house, then goes to a second house and stays there a long while....

IF the story of her GF being so horny but not knowing how to talk to men were true....have your wife bring her GF over to YOUR house for sex. At least you will get laid by an eager woman that way.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Don't think he is coming back....we scared him away with truth. Some people are not ready for truth...it means the potential for big changes, and most are adverse to it....so the mind has a way to find peace in some form of ignorance. That my friends if human nature.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

he may come back in 6 months or so, when the writing on the wall is easier to read


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

dawnabon said:


> I think that's cheaterese, not womanese, as I got the same "you're controlling" accusations thrown at me numerous times from my serial cheating spouse. For the same reason, of course.


Yep Dawn, "you're controlling" is a "one size fits all" push back for spouses that want to keep doing what they ought not be doing..


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## Jason Bourne (Jul 30, 2017)

Where's she at at the moment?


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

A lot of people come here looking for advice, and are shocked at the bitter responses from people who have previously been cheated on. They are here either hoping to hear re-assurances that things are not as bad as they seem, or that a reconciliation can be made successfully. The reality is a big shock....many are not ready for that hard truth.

Also, sometimes there ARE reconciliations.


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