# First Day of Separation



## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

I'm VERY new here. My wife and I have two children (5 & 3) and just this past weekend we decided that a separation for us at this point is the best course of action. Not necessarily a separation as a means to divorce, but a separation as a means to determining if we want to be with each other.

Let me give you the long version.

In Early 2011 my wife had our 2nd child (a daughter). My wife is a wonderful mother and our oldest (a boy) is a true blessing. She got pregnant with him after us dating for four months (we knew each other for 10 months). It was fast, quick, but we both fell in love with each other. Things were great after she had our son. We bought a house and got married about a year after our son was born. 

We didn't rush into marriage because we both agreed that marriage simply because we had a child together made no sense and wanted to actually live together for a while before we made that commitment. Things were fine. Until my wife got pregnant with our daughter. It was a rough pregnancy. She wasn't sure all along that she wanted to put her body through that but she even admitted she wanted our son to have a sibling and that she knew I wanted another child. 

After our daughter was born, things really started to change. She couldn't have sex for a long time afterward because of some complications from the pregnancy. At that time, it wasn't a big deal to me because her health was more important to me than having sex (although it would have been nice). And I should have seen it but maybe I just ignored the fact that she had terrible PPD after our daughter was born. She is a stay-at-home mom and babysits a couple of kids for extra cash. I work full-time, 50-60 hours a week. Honestly, I should have seen that something was wrong then, but I guess I just ignored it and figured it would get better.

Fast forward to the fall of 2011. By this time we were starting to have sex again but sparingly. She even admited to me that she simply could not have an orgasm. Needless to say she had a very negative attitude about sex in general and for months, if I would initiate sex it seemed like a chore to her. We both were at a cookout one day and we came home later that night and the kids were in bed. We both were in the living room having some drinks, joking around, and watching TV. She was being VERY flirty. She normally isn't much of a flirt but she had been drinking and clearly sex was an option. BUT rarely did we have sex when drunk (mainly because neither of us drink often). Not since we first started dating. I actually wasn't drunk at all because I had to drive home and only had a couple when we got back to the house. She was very drunk. We then proceeded to have sex. Everything seemed fine and we finished. But she was in the bathroom for a long time. She came out after a while and she laid down in bed and said "that wasn't very fun." I was a little taken back by that comment but she was still pretty tipsy. We both fell asleep not long after. 

The next morning I had a golf outing. I got up and got ready and as I was getting ready to head out the door she stopped me. She said that what happened last night wasn't okay and if it happens again, she's gone. Talk about getting someone's attention. I honestly was completely taken by surprise. I had NO idea I had done something wrong. She said I had to have known how drunk she was and that she wasn't in the right frame of mind to agree to have sex. Which is strange because during the act, to me it seemed more than consensual. Not once do I remember the word "no" being used. 

I tried talking to her about it a couple of times because obviously I knew the magnitude of everything and it was a very big deal. Each time was like, "it's fine, I'm going to deal with it and over time I will forgive you and we can move on." Over the next two years, we didn't have a great marriage. On the other hand we are both great parents. We've had financial issues/arguments but most are ones that are petty.  The issue we were facing late in 2013 was the fact that each time we had these small, petty issues, she used that as reasons to say it just proves she can't trust me because of those ten minutes a few years ago. And each time some small argument/disagreement happens, she says she feels like she doesn't know me and I'm not the same person she married.

Harsh, harsh words. She couldn't get over it even though to this day I don't think I did anything wrong. I asked her multiple times if she wanted to see a therapist. She said she is the one that needs to forgive me and get over it and she's the one that needs to fix it. She can be very stubborn like that. After almost two years of bickering over petty stuff, she dropped the bomb on me after Christmas. "We need to talk."

I kind of knew it was coming. You can prepare yourself for it but you really can't prepare yourself for it. She was totally upfront. She said she hadn't forgiven me for what happened and that she's not sure she can trust me. She has panic attacks at the smell of alcohol and whenever we had sex after the incident, she typically had panic attacks. We rehashed what happened and even she admitted there were mixed signals she gave me that night and she blamed herself as well as me. We do have several disconnects of exactly how everything happened but at this point it doesn't matter. It happened and clearly it's had an impact on her to a point where it's become the ultimate wedge in our marriage. Of course I said that I'm sorry I agreed to have sex with her when she was that intoxicated because clearly she doesn't remember the details. We stopped having sex right then and there. I had no idea she was this far gone.

Two things were clear though at that point. She said that she needed help and was going to see a therapist. And she said that given the fact that neither of us were very happy people at the moment that we couldn't live that way. For ourselves and our kids. 

Both of us have disclosed the details of what happened to a very select few people. We have seen mixed reactions. Some want to see her as the heroine that won't let a "man" do that to her. Some think that she's overracting and needs to learn to let things go. Some think that I shouldn't have agreed to have sex with her while she was that drunk and can understand why she is having the issues she's having......but that she needs to learn that I wasn't at fault and shouldn't hold me in purgatory for it. 

The problem is that she really did bottle things up and it was like a bomb of emotions went off a month ago when she "wanted to talk." I was not prepared for them......at all. I had never felt insecure in our marriage until that very moment. And that's when my mind went haywire. I was constantly searching for answers and a "fix" to our problem. I was constantly asking her questions and trying to get an idea of where she stood on things. At first, she was very willing to reassure me that she still very much loved me. She was still attracted to me. And she was totally committed to finding a way to make our marriage move forward from this. But it was going to take nearly 4 weeks for her to get into a therapist that came highly recommended. 

It's amazing how much damage can be done in just four weeks. I was paranoid about EVERYTHING she was doing. Down to what she was looking at on the internet, who she was texting (she texts A LOT), and when she left the house by herself where she was doing. Again, up until the moment she dropped the bomb, I never thought I would do that. Obviously my paranoia got the best of me and I confronted her a few times about things that blew up into fights. My wife and I rarely fighted before. We have fought more in the last 5 weeks than we had in the previous 5 years. It wasn't us. At first, we would only have heated discussions once every few days. Then it turned into every other day. And then here in the last couple weeks, pretty much every day. 

And then she had her first therapy session this past week. I don't think her or I had anticipated how rough it was going to be for her. She came home crying. I wish I hadn't been there but we couldn't find anyone to watch the kids. She said he gave her a lot to think about and she just wasn't sure what she wanted to do and she thought that maybe too much water was under the bridge for us to repair things. But the therapist told her that in order to treat the trauma, she needs to decide whether or not she wants to stay completely committed to me or whether or not she just wants to move on with her life without me so he can treat her with the assumption that we are no longer together. I'm not a therapist so I don't know if that's a fair thing to do but the goal of therapy for her is to help herself move on from the panic attacts in order to bring herself out of her funk. Whether it's with or without me is on her.

We had a pretty strong argument later that night. She was ready to leave with the kids at one point. Cooler heads prevailed and over the weekend it was decided that the best thing for both of us is to cool off for the time being while we determine what we both want. Because we were in a terrible pattern of fighting that was totally counter-productive.

*We're really struggling right now to define how we want our separation to work. * And that is why I am here. However, there are several things that we agreed immediately on. We both agreed the kids lives should not be impacted at all if it can be helped. She is staying at the house (because she's already with them most of the time.....removing my wife would definitely be strange to them). I'm going to split time between my parents & my uncles. I've always come home for lunch. She wants me to continue to do that. She wants to come home after work to spend time with the kids. After dinner/baths, I will leave and stay somewhere else. Since it's new, we don't know how the weekends should work. Should one of us have them one day? Should we just spend the weekends together as a family? We're leaning toward just splitting time with them on the weekends so her and I can actually have some separate time from each other. At least early on. We aren't sure about kissing each other. My wife and I have habits/traditions no different than any other married couple. We always kissed each other before one of us went to bed and we always kissed each other when one of us was leaving the house. ALWAYS. This past weekend was the first time in our marriage that we didn't kiss when one of us left the house. My wife asked me the day of the separation if we're still supposed to kiss because she's confused about the boundaries of a separation. Personally, I don't see why we should stop. We still love each other. We're both committed in the long-term to find a way to work this out. We're simply trying to defuse a lot of tension and strain. If this were a means to a divorce, then there is no reason to keep kissing. But she's uncertain (to her defense, I think she's uncertain about a lot of things) if she wants to remain married to me. 

People say that separations/divorce are never 50/50. I agree with that now that we are in this situation. I don't want to be separated but I understand a cooling off period is probably the best thing to do. I would like to see us both cool off and then end the separation. But she's told me that she is unsure what she wants. She has not once mentioned the word "divorce." If you ask me, we're at 80/20 with me being more certain what I want from all of this. Is that normal in a separation?

I understand that the root cause of this may be uncomfortable for some. Especially some females. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the separation. I don't want this to drag out 3-6 months. But I also understand there needs to be a timeout in order for us to both clear our heads. I have no doubt my wife cares very much for me and does love me (the extent of that love, I am uncertain). 

For lack of better words.....this sucks. And it hasn't been 24 hours since I left home.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Please dont take this wrong, but your wife is flaky. You did not rape her unless she was passed out. She has some major issues that makes me wonder if she was abused when she was young.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

Thound said:


> Please dont take this wrong, but your wife is flaky. You did not rape her unless she was passed out. She has some major issues that makes me wonder if she was abused when she was young.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She definitely wasn't abused when she was young. Her mom and her don't have the best relationship. My wife does have a wall though where she wants herself to be perceived by other people to have her act together. I think that's part of the reason this has been so hard on her because she feels out of control and it's starting to show. 

The last month or so? Flaky is actually not a bad term for her. She goes from having great days where things seem very great between us to days where it seems like I'm waiting for her to say "we need to talk." 

I'm wondering if seeing her almost every day is a good thing early on in a separation when both of us are trying to clear our heads.


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Tough one. 

I would not leave the house. I don't know the exact reasons per se, but those here who have more knowledge of the law say that it puts you in a bad position if you do. I take it from personal experience, that if you want a quick means to the end, then separate. Its the first step to the final destruction of your marriage. You are better off sleeping in a separate room and working around that living out of the house.

I can't tell you what is wrong with your wife, but there is something clearly amiss. How was your love life when you were dating? Did she enjoy sex then? Maybe she had issues then that you didn't notice before. 

It also sounds like she blames you for getting her pregnant with your second child. She is harboring some real hatred there for some reason. Even if she had post partum depression, how long is it supposed to last? 

And what happened that one night isn't the cause of your issues now. Her being anxious and whatever is just another excuse for something else. What that something is I cannot tell you, however, you might be able to make some moves to find out.

Is there any chance of you getting access to her laptop or family computer? You can install a key logger that can record everything she types, learn all of the websites she visits, see all her emails and retrieve every password she has. If you can install that software without her knowing (do it when she steps out to the store), you may get a clear insight into what it is in her head. 

Never never never though tell her that you have it installed if you find something that you don't like seeing. Its tempting to blow your cover but don't do it. You need to keep it from her forever and use it as a secret weapon. That way you can get access to whatever it is she does online and use that to your advantage.

I'll bet you will learn more about your wife that way, and may indeed find out what the real reason is for her distrust and apparent hatred of you.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Make her leave if she wants to be seperated over something so ridiculous.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

wilderness said:


> Make her leave if she wants to be seperated over something so ridiculous.


And while she is still there be upbeat and positive. Dont let her mood change yours starf exercising and lift weights. Find a hobby you can get into.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stretch (Dec 12, 2012)

With all due respect, you are a bit of a chump.

She is unsure of what she wants but you know what you want.

Move back into the house and tell her that if she does not want to work on the marriage, she can leave.

Your are appearing weak to her and she will take advantage of it every time she can. The faster she starts getting the message that you are moving on and she does not matter, the faster she will make a true decision as to what she wants to do long term.

Don't be fooled into thinking that being caring and supportive will shake her up, it won't.

Take control and protect yourself and your kids,
Stretch


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sportsfather

Have you seen a attorney for advice?

Because you should.

Your separation should be a legal one.

Because if you are out of the "marital home" for any length of time that can be construed as abandonment.

You should ask an attorney for guidance.

You should also lockdown the finances while you are not in the home.

Just so crazy spending or credit card activity does not take place.

ANd if she is your wife and you love her then for Gods sake kiss her.

I just hope she does not turn that around on you.

Your wife was drunk. You love her and you loved her that night.

And now she holds it against you.

Maybe she will tell you the real reason why she does not trust you.

Because her reason is not very strong.

And her therapist sounds like a knucklehead. 

Keep posting.

HM


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I agree with Alpha, I don't think this is really about that one night. Your wife definitely harbors resentment toward you, quite possibly because of the second child, which it sounds like she didn't really want. Combine that with ppd, which I had quite severely myself, and the fact that you ignored it (builds resentment in her eyes) and I could see this happening. Is there any chance she thought you were trying to get her pregnant again that night? Are you guys using bc?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Alpha (Feb 18, 2013)

Lifeistooshort is correct.

Something similar with my second child. While she wanted to have a second, I wasn't so enthused about the idea. When she got pregnant, I wasn't as supportive as I could have been. She kept on bringing it up during separation, even though I don't think it was her primary reason for leaving, it was something that she would always draw upon when she was angry. 

You need to find out how she got those emotional scars, otherwise its like trying to hit a moving target.

And listen to the other advice given here too, get back in the house and be firm.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife has some negative view of sex. She views it as something bad. 

Sex is a wonderful act between a husband and a wife. What married person rightly defines sex as bad? Therefore in this entire situation you are right and she is wrong.

Her wrongness will harm your children. You cannot and should not allow her to think that there is some magical way for her wrongness to avoid harming the children.

And, you should not wimpily move out. Let her wrong thougths lead to her wrong decisions that she can suffer the negative consequences herself.


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## struggle (May 13, 2013)

As much as I understand you wanting to be more than "fair" during this separation, I have to agree with everyone above, moving out does leave you at a disadvantage. And if you're sure you want to try and work things out, separation is not the answer. All that time apart just makes you wonder whether you really want to possibly risk going "back" to the way it was. The longer you're separated the more likely you'll stay separated. Then you'll want to be friends, until you have a fight. Then it gets dirty. Protect yourself and your finances, and get advice from an attorney.

From your side of the story I cannot see how she could hold that night against you. So because she regrets it the next day she's going to blame you? She obviously has had some emotional issues that just kept building and building and now that's her biggest excuse to blame you for her unhappiness. At least she finally went and saw a therapist. Hopefully she keeps going and figures out where this is all stemming from. But, just realize you're not going to change her. And from what you've said she just wants to blame you for everything and that will probably never change. Good luck and keep posting, it helps.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

Thank you all for the comments/advice.

The separation had to happen. As painful as that is an as bad as it sucks right now, it's probably for the best. I just went home for lunch to see my kids (my wife WANTS me to come home for lunch and WANTS me to come over after work so it keeps things normal for the kids). I had the discussion about me staying there this Friday night with the kids and her going somewhere else. She agreed and was fine with that. I'm going to go do stuff with friends on Saturday night because quite frankly, I need that. 

She has to be the one who stays and not me. She is home with the kids every day and has been for the last 4 years. Removing her from the home would only confuse the hell out of them. Plus, she babysits a few kids throughout the week and the extra cash she makes from that goes a long way. 

I'm not okay with being the one who is out of the house more and we talked today about how bad it sucks to be the one not there. She agreed that it must be hard but right now there is so frustration between the two of us it kind of devolved into another argument which left her crying, nothing resolved, and the kids wondering what is going on. Honestly, when I'm there, I just need to focus on the kids and avoid any type of conversation with her that could devolve into another argument (easier said then done when I want to come home but can't).

I agree about there being deeper issues. After talking with family over the last couple of nights and sharing them the facts of how things have progressed, their reactions are similar to that of you all. Yeah, what happened a few years ago is not good and even if I wasn't wrong, it still triggered something in her head and sent her into a tailspin mentally. But it's time for her to get over it so she can move on and in turn, me and my kids can move on. I shared a little bit of that with her today. Not tough love like "just get over it," but "there is no way we can move forward together as a married couple until you can learn to let things go....and I can't help you with that." She didn't really like to hear that, but she probably needed to hear that.

Needless to say, I had to come back to work and it was probably for the best. While some things she needed to hear, about 95% of it was stuffed we've been over time and time again which is the reason for the separation in the first place. 

Somewhere along the line I need to draw a line in the sand and tell myself that I have told her everything I need to say and now it's up to her to figure out if she wants this to work.

The good thing though is that she said I can come back whenever I want to. BUT. That's definitely not for the best right now because we will most definitely just fight most of the time. The fighting is why we are separated. I think she knows that her deeper issues are going to take some time to get past and neither of us want to be separated for a long, long time. At some point once we can both be relaxed and calm around each other, then it's time for me to come home. Then she can work on dealing with her deeper issues. 

And the thing that kills both of this is that we're only two days into this and we can already tell it's having an impact on our son. He's starting to ask a lot of questions.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

The separation doesn't have to happen. Don't roll over and cave for someone that is shirking her responsibilities. Man up!


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

wilderness said:


> The separation doesn't have to happen. Don't roll over and cave for someone that is shirking her responsibilities. Man up!


Trust me, I don't want it to happen. But if we keep fighting/talking about the same stuff day in and day out, we'll definitely be headed for a divorce. 

I'm honestly not sure this is really even a true separation. I'm still going to see her every day (at lunch and after work). Some weekends I may not. 

The one and only reason for me is that we have to stop the fighting/talking constantly about our problems. They need to stop. She admits she needs help and that's why she's going to a therapist. She fully admitted today that her inability to get over stuff is why we're here right now. 

But fighting is just making things worse. Maybe this separation will be brief. Maybe things will cool off and neither of us feel the need to even have discussions about our marriage and in a couple weeks we'll be back together, things will be okay at home, and she's getting the therapy she absolutely needs.

But right now, the separation needs to happen.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

sportsfather said:


> Trust me, I don't want it to happen. But if we keep fighting/talking about the same stuff day in and day out, we'll definitely be headed for a divorce.
> 
> I'm honestly not sure this is really even a true separation. I'm still going to see her every day (at lunch and after work). Some weekends I may not.
> 
> ...


If she is causing all the fights, make her move out. This is her responsibility, why should you be the one to suffer the consequences. Do you have any idea how screwed you will be if she files for divorce once you move out? Go to this site and read the list: dadsdivorce.com


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

You can stop fighting and talking about your problems any time you want to. You are in total control of what you say and do.

You should elevate your discussion well above fighting and talking about your problems.

You should not fight. You should just be stating your desire to have a loving marriage and raise children in a loving environment.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> You can stop fighting and talking about your problems any time you want to. You are in total control of what you say and do.
> 
> You should elevate your discussion well above fighting and talking about your problems.
> 
> You should not fight. You should just be stating your desire to have a loving marriage and raise children in a loving environment.


I agree 100%. Both of us are stubborn. We rarely fought prior to this which is why it's so hard to snap out of this cycle. The fighting is not us. I understand it's healthy for marriages from time-to-time to fight and we have done that in the past. But I would estimate in the last month that we've had over 20 heated discussions and 10 of them devolved into a fight. Usually started by something really, really small. It's tough to stop that rock from rolling down the hill once it's started.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

sportsfather said:


> I agree 100%. Both of us are stubborn. We rarely fought prior to this which is why it's so hard to snap out of this cycle. The fighting is not us. I understand it's healthy for marriages from time-to-time to fight and we have done that in the past. But I would estimate in the last month that we've had over 20 heated discussions and 10 of them devolved into a fight. Usually started by something really, really small. It's tough to stop that rock from rolling down the hill once it's started.


Have you ruled out an affair?


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

wilderness said:


> Have you ruled out an affair?


Yeah. She's always home. She rarely goes anywhere without me and/or the kids. If someone was coming over to our house, we're very good friends with my neighbors. They would know and would tell me. But even if that did happen, it would be when the kids were home. And she is incredibly protective of our children. 

Plus, I flat out asked that question to her several weeks ago and she eased my mind on that. 

If she was having an affair, she would be going to significant lengths to hide it. Because there's always kids in our house (she babysits most days of the week and I'm home on the weekends and evenings during the week).

Believe me, the thought did cross my mind and I brought it up just because I had to rule it out so I could focus on the other problems in our marriage without worrying that she "may" be cheating.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

sportsfather said:


> Yeah. She's always home. She rarely goes anywhere without me and/or the kids. If someone was coming over to our house, we're very good friends with my neighbors. They would know and would tell me. But even if that did happen, it would be when the kids were home. And she is incredibly protective of our children.
> 
> Plus, I flat out asked that question to her several weeks ago and she eased my mind on that.
> 
> ...


The forums are littered with guys that thought there was no way for it to happen. I would track her text messages, put a key logger on your computer, and VAR her car, just to be sure.

And move back in. The single biggest mistake a guy in your situation can make is to move out of the home. 

Read that last sentence again: *The single biggest mistake a guy in your situation can make is to move out of the home.*


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

It seems very clear that you need to find a counselor, Pastor, or even an attorney to get help and advice from. Any therapist who starts counseling by viewing the marriage as disposable would be suspect in my mind. There is also a book I highly recommend called _Love Must Be Tough: New Hope For Marriages in Crisis_ by Dr. James Dobson. This book will lay out in detail the steps to take in order to avoid doing things that will push your wife further away. It will also show you what to do to make it as likely as possible for her to decide to try and save the marriage. Remember, the only person you can control is yourself, so you must give up all attempts to control her. 

I know it is hard - I have been there myself. Ultimately, love is a choice a person has to make on their own. This is the time you must use wisely to look within yourself and change what needs to be changed. Keep your head up - there is hope.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

WolverineFan said:


> It seems very clear that you need to find a counselor, Pastor, or even an attorney to get help and advice from. Any therapist who starts counseling by viewing the marriage as disposable would be suspect in my mind. There is also a book I highly recommend called _Love Must Be Tough: New Hope For Marriages in Crisis_ by Dr. James Dobson. This book will lay out in detail the steps to take in order to avoid doing things that will push your wife further away. It will also show you what to do to make it as likely as possible for her to decide to try and save the marriage. Remember, the only person you can control is yourself, so you must give up all attempts to control her.
> 
> I know it is hard - I have been there myself. Ultimately, love is a choice a person has to make on their own. This is the time you must use wisely to look within yourself and change what needs to be changed. Keep your head up - there is hope.


I appreciate that. From what I understand with the therapist, he was simply laying out all options. Here's what you can expect if you want to truly make your marriage work. Here's what you can expect if you want to move toward a divorce. 

But you are absolutely correct about controlling myself and myself only. Not that I was controlling of my wife in the past, but I think you know what I mean. 

I think the primary goal of this separation is to put the brakes on the fighting. We didn't start that until a few weeks ago. My wife told me today that if the fighting stopped that it would probably be a good idea if I came back. I take a lot of comfort in that.

It's just hard for someone like me who does like to communicate to keep my mouth shut and not constantly ask for clues to what she's thinking or how she's feeling. Because she just started therapy and she fully admits that's the reason she is going to therapy. To sort those things out. She said she knows she needs to get over stuff.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

sportsfather said:


> I appreciate that. From what I understand with the therapist, he was simply laying out all options. Here's what you can expect if you want to truly make your marriage work. Here's what you can expect if you want to move toward a divorce.
> 
> But you are absolutely correct about controlling myself and myself only. Not that I was controlling of my wife in the past, but I think you know what I mean.
> 
> ...


The fighting is her decision, not yours…correct? Again, why should you be the one to suffer the consequences for her bad behavior. And there is another thing, an important negative aspect of this separation- moving out is supplicating behavior? It's likely to do significant damage to the amount of respect your wife has for you. That is antithetical to your goal. 
Be strong. Be firm. Move back in and tell her that if she wants out, she can move out.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

wilderness said:


> The fighting is her decision, not yours…correct? Again, why should you be the one to suffer the consequences for her bad behavior. And there is another thing, an important negative aspect of this separation- moving out is supplicating behavior? It's likely to do significant damage to the amount of respect your wife has for you. That is antithetical to your goal.
> Be strong. Be firm. Move back in and tell her that if she wants out, she can move out.


Oh no, I start just as many if not more fights than her.


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## WolverineFan (Nov 26, 2013)

It sounds like you have a good grasp of what is going on. I would encourage you to find support for yourself and I still highly recommend the book I mentioned. I believe it will help you with some very practical tips. Blessings!


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Wilderness is right. DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME.

Take it from me, once you are out you are out!


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

So here's what's up. It's been about 2 weeks since we started the separation. On Day 2, we got into a heated discussion about how the separation was going to work. After cooler heads prevailed she recommended that we go see a marriage counselor the following week. It's definitely not a "normal" separation since we have two young kids. I come home nearly every day for lunch and I come home every night after work to spend some time with them. So I see my wife nearly every day.

We went to the marriage counselor and some things started to make a little bit of sense. She got pregnant with our son before we were married and she was 21, I was 28. She was VERY independent before she met me and was VERY self-sufficient. When our son was just 1 year old, that's when we discussed her staying home with him because she was unhappy with her job. At the time it seemed like a good idea to both of us (very practical) but the reality is that she was NEVER built to be a stay-at-home mom. She let me take care of her and that's the worst thing that could ever happen. She has developed no sense of self. She said that since we've been separated, she finally is starting to feel a sense of independence that she hasn't felt in years.

In so many words, she said she's happier when I'm not there. But it's only been two weeks. Personally, I'm relieved every night that I'm there and we don't fight. After doing it for essentially 5 weeks straight, I dreaded our next fight. 

But, I want our marriage to work. I understand that she needs to make personal changes to get her sense of self back. Everyone needs that. But she indicated that we could keep going to marriage counselling but she doesn't think it will do any good. 

It's only been two weeks though. I'm taking steps at this point of accepting that this is going to be a long separation that could very well end up in divorce. Acting needy and acting desperate to mend things quickly will only make things worse. We did talk after the marriage counseling and agreed that it can't be just me being away every single night. I deserve to be able to stay in our home as well. So I'm going to stay at the house with the kids a few nights a week and she'll stay somewhere else. 

In the meantime, she is looking for a job. Whether we stay together or not, she needs to do that for herself. She said that maybe things would be easier if she got an apartment that way we could have a formal custody arrangement (I bought the house before we started dating and it's in my name....so naturally if this were a long-term thing she'd be the one to move out).

Part of me thinks that if she does that, it's the beginning of the end. But if I resist, I feel like she would see it as me trying to hold her back from "being herself" again. Maybe it won't come to that, maybe it will. Maybe she's just "acting" like she's happier without me being there and is just kidding herself? 

I will say one thing. I'm not in a position to demand her do anything. She already resents the hell out of me (whether it's justified or not). That much came out. 

I asked her if she really just wants a divorce. She has hedged on that. She said that she thinks she knows what she wants but just isn't sure if she wants to say it. And when I brought it up a 2nd time she said "have I filed divorce papers?" in a very defensive tone.

I don't want people to tell me "what I should do." But my question is this. But is it typical for one person to be more commited to a marriage than the other early on in the separation process? Obviously the best thing for me to do is plan for the worst, hope for the best, and do everything I can to take care of myself so I can be happy. Pushing her will only make it worse. And is it typical for the pessimistic/bitter spouse to start to act more caring/optimistic if the tensions between them start to go away?


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Move back into your home. You are risking everything by being out, with absolutely nothing to gain.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I think you should file for divorce. I know you want your marriage, but it isn't going to happen. Not with her having all the power.

She needs a dose of reality. File for divorce and arrange custody. You get the kids one week, she gets them the next. When it is her week, you stay away. Let her deal with everything. 

Start looking after yourself instead of trying to win your wife back. Show her that you are strong and can move on. This might be the very thing to make her realize what she has.

Or she might just continue on her path of slowly killing the marriage. I don't think you have any chance at all, unless you take action.


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

If this goes to divorce, whatever time you spend with the children now will be considered status quo. Their being there in the house. All of it. This is why it's normally recommended for you to stay in the house. 

Have you both considered, and are there enough rooms in the house to do, an in-house separation? Is it an option in your state?

You'd have to be cautious to avoid false DV charges, etc. But it helps maintain a better status quo for 50/50 if/when it goes south to divorce.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sportsfather,

It must be hard reading all the advice here, since everybody tells you that you are doing the wrong stuff.

Moving out means you will suffer when it comes to divorce, since the courts rule based on the status quo. But you insist that moving out is improving things.

Your wife is regaining her sense of self. That is a normal psychological process when a couple split up. Whenever a person finds their old self. The new old self seldom wants to commit suicide, which is what living with you entails. Of course, I don't mean suicide literally but figuratively. She believes you are crushing her spirit.

Move home.

File for divorce.

Read about the 180 and do it.

Your marriage can only be saved if you are prepared to lose it. You must be ready for MC and IC.

You think your wife has not cheated on you. OK. But now that you are out of the house and you come to babysit on Fridays and Saturdays, there is every chance in the world she is going out to get laid and see how it feels. It may feel good and then you marriage will implode even faster. Moreover, she may wish to destroy you financially.

After all she needs money to dress up and date. You should pay since you f'd up her life in her new analysis.

You need to wake up to the troubles for which you are setting yourself up.

By the way, your wife might fall in love with you again if you are decisive. This wishy washy guy she can push around. He is not attractive to her.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Sportsfather,
> 
> It must be hard reading all the advice here, since everybody tells you that you are doing the wrong stuff.
> 
> ...


Right. Move home.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Thound said:


> Please dont take this wrong, but your wife is flaky. You did not rape her unless she was passed out. She has some major issues that makes me wonder if she was abused when she was young.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree with Thound. She is flaky. Since no one else has said it... some of the best sex my SO and I ever had occurred when we were tipsy... dare I say drunk?! Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating getting ripped every time you have sex, but her reaction is WAY OFF base.

You did nothing wrong. You did not rape her. Perhaps she's mad at herself for letting her inhibitions down, but that's HER problem, not YOURS. I can almost guarantee that if you HADN'T had sex with her that night, she would have blasted you for rejecting her and all these years later you would still be paying the price. Do not let her make you own a problem that is clearly hers to own.

*This isn't about alcohol and it isn't about sex.* It's about her being somewhere she doesn't want to be -- married to you and trapped at home. Sorry if that's harsh.

Move back to your house. Live in the spare room and have minimal contact, no fighting, etc. but DO NOT leave your kids. And continue counseling to determine the best way out of this mess she has created.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

Guys, I respect your opinions but me moving back into the house right now simply will not happen. 

I'm not going to kick her out on the street today and say "go find your own place to live." And neither of us are all that comfortable being around each other because of the tension and the fact that anything said may turn into a fight. She is still my wife and as much trouble as we've had in our marriage, we still have a mutual respect for each other. I was just there today at lunch and she asked me what days I wanted to stay at the house this week with the kids and she can go over to her parents. If she doesn't go over to her parents and some dudes place (I SERIOUSLY doubt that), then it just makes divorce to me even more appealing to me. But again, that part doesn't seem like an issue. We know too many mutual people in a very small town for that to be happening. Moreover, she's so guarded right now that I wish any guy luck that is trying to "get to her." I know her best friends very well and they're friends of mine as well. There is actually a pretty open communication of what's going on and her personal issues are really a problem here. Not thinking that the grass is greener with some other guy. If that was happening, I DEFINITELY would have known by now.

Also, the status quo part doesn't bother me. I own the house by myself. I bought it before we got married (right before the real estate bubble). It's essentially a worthless asset in the event of a divorce because it's market value is about what I owe on it. If we do divorce, she will not want the house. She really has never liked it that much but we were underwater on it so we couldn't sell it. 

The only asset worth anything in our marriage is my 401(k). I assume she would get half of that and that's fine. I'm not terribly concerned with that because I'm fairly young and have a pretty good job. 

We have talked about shared custody (during the separation) once she gets a job. Because it will be unrealistic for us to continue our current arrangement of me coming over there every day. We'll probably do a 2-2-3 arrangement if that happens. We talked this weekend about a formal separation agreement. I'm friends with an attorney and talked to him this weekend about it. He said that he's seen hundreds of separations. He said ours is one of the more civilized he's seen. Neither of us "hate" each other. He said that he can't say that for 50% of the divorce cases he see's. He knows us both and knows that neither of us want things to get dirty. Again, small town. 

He said that long term, it's probably not a good idea to stay separated like this without a formal agreement. She said her goal is to get a job and get her own place. If that leads to a divorce than so be it.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

You don't have to kick her out, just move back in. If she wants to leave, she can leave. You said yourself that most of the fights were caused by you. So the obvious solution is simply not to start fights. Simple, really.


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## sportsfather (Jan 27, 2014)

Also, I am selling the house. I'm ready to upgrade anyway. I told her that I'm buying a house with our without her. If that happens and we're still separated then she's on her own. I'm not buying a new house that she feels she can live in and be separated. 

There's a lot of things in motion that I think are for the better. For both of us. She's getting a job. I'm selling the house. She may be getting her own place. And these are all things we talked about together. It wasn't something where I said I'm selling the house from under her. She knows that selling it is the best thing. We're both ready to move on with that part of our lives.


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

sportsfather said:


> Also, I am selling the house. I'm ready to upgrade anyway. I told her that I'm buying a house with our without her. If that happens and we're still separated then she's on her own. I'm not buying a new house that she feels she can live in and be separated.
> 
> There's a lot of things in motion that I think are for the better. For both of us. She's getting a job. I'm selling the house. She may be getting her own place. And these are all things we talked about together. It wasn't something where I said I'm selling the house from under her. She knows that selling it is the best thing. We're both ready to move on with that part of our lives.


If she is getting a job and getting her own place, you really have 0 reason NOT to move back into your home:

1. If you want to reconcile, it's your best bet.
2. If you don't want to reconcile, it's your best bet.
3. It's the best decision if you divorce.
4. It's the best decision if you stay together.
5. It's the best decision for you.
6. It's the best decision for your child.
7. Most importantly, not moving back in carries risk of ruination of your entire life.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

sportsfather said:


> We went to the marriage counselor and some things started to make a little bit of sense. She got pregnant with our son before we were married and she was 21, I was 28. She was VERY independent before she met me and was VERY self-sufficient. When our son was just 1 year old, that's when we discussed her staying home with him because she was unhappy with her job. At the time it seemed like a good idea to both of us (very practical) but the reality is that she was NEVER built to be a stay-at-home mom. She let me take care of her and that's the worst thing that could ever happen. She has developed no sense of self. She said that since we've been separated, she finally is starting to feel a sense of independence that she hasn't felt in years.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Hicks said:


> sportsfather said:
> 
> 
> > We went to the marriage counselor and some things started to make a little bit of sense. She got pregnant with our son before we were married and she was 21, I was 28. She was VERY independent before she met me and was VERY self-sufficient. When our son was just 1 year old, that's when we discussed her staying home with him because she was unhappy with her job. At the time it seemed like a good idea to both of us (very practical) but the reality is that she was NEVER built to be a stay-at-home mom. She let me take care of her and that's the worst thing that could ever happen. She has developed no sense of self. She said that since we've been separated, she finally is starting to feel a sense of independence that she hasn't felt in years.
> ...


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Sportsfather

While I agree with everyone else that you should move back in and take control of your life and family I thought it more important to point something out to you.

*



She is still my wife and as much trouble as we've had in our marriage, we still have a mutual respect for each other

Click to expand...

*. 

I find it hard to believe your wife respects you to the degree you think she does.

I agree with LW though.

You need to assert control of your family. Of your future. With or without her.

She is pointing her animosity about her loss of self at the wrong person.

If she is so gung-Ho to leave, get an apt. And become financially independent then do this:

Help her!

Come home at night and see the kids. Then sit down with her every night for one hour and go through the classifieds with her. Talk to her and help her find what she wants to do.

Sit down with her and discuss what she will need financially to make it on her own. Come up with a budget. Open her eyes.

At the same time start to show her what her life will be like without you in it.

A separation and divorce can be amicable. But it does not mean you two will be friends.

Gently remind her she got herself in this position so only she can get herself out.

And definitely formalize your separation. Put a timeline on her getting out and how long you will stay separated for before filing for D or reconciling.

Make her put her big girl panties on.

And get her to takeoff her sunglasses.

You can encourage her every step of the way. No matter how much it hurts your heart.

HM


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Sportsfather, why post if you don't want to listen to what anyone says? 

Right now, here is absolutely what is going to happen to you:

1. Your wife will divorce you. Her therapist will aid this journey, by encouraging her to think that you held her back from being herself or some such nonsense. 
2. You wife will have boyfriends and have sex with them. She'll be much wilder than she has ever been with you.
3. You won't see your kids nearly as much as you'd like to (although she'll happily ask you to babysit when she's banging some other guy) and you'll be very hurt by this. 
4. You'll be worse off financially than you expected.
5. You'll try to date, but other women won't commit. 

This is the future that's currently heading for you like a truck on the interstate in the wrong lane. Think about it for a while and see how you feel.


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I think this woman is playing you like a fiddle.

Like everyone says YOU need to take control of YOUR life back.

Read these two books....No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man's Sex Life Primer


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Sometimes a woman tells a man to do one thing but want him to do another. Your wife will be happiest if you are decisive and protect yourself. Remember by failing to stand up for yourself, she infers that you will fail to stand up for her.

If you just calmly say "no" to the unreasonable demands she makes, she will herself in all likelihood think more of you.

Go home tell her the experimental separation has been a great success. From it you have learned that your will either divorce or reconcile. If it is divorce that you are headed towards, then you need to draw up a plan. If it is reconciliation, then you need MC. 

Do not raise your voice or swear at her. Always keep an even keel. Do not say hurtful things. If she says something outrageous, just reply: "Sorry you feel that way."

Or "I am not okay with you saying that."


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## wilderness (Jan 9, 2013)

Just don't forget your VAR to protect yourself against false allegations.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Stretch said:


> With all due respect, you are a bit of a chump.
> 
> She is unsure of what she wants but you know what you want.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Sports father Read Kolors thread It's going to end up the same.

55


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Sportsfather It's going to seem counterintuitive but

You need to stand up for yourself and family

Move back home.

55


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sportsfather,

Did you read my earlier post?! Be an ALPHA -- stand up to this woman... Move back into your house. Sell it, buy a new one, whatever; if she is not comfortable with you being there she can stay with her folks. But the most important thing is YOU ARE STILL WITH YOUR CHILDREN. If she wants out, fine. Let her go. But that's the point -- SHE GOES, YOU STAY. You are p*ssy-footing around her childish moods and immature views on sex, rape, alcohol and every other excuse she can think of.

She no longer wants to be married to you RIGHT NOW. If you two decide to reconcile and work it out later, fine. But in the meantime, SHE is the one who wants OUT, so let HER go OUT.


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