# Breast Feeding Ethics



## LetItHappen

My family spent last weekend at the lake. There were hundreds of people there, this was a state park. My dad, my sister, and my wife and I (no kids yet) drove together to meet up with my brother and his wife. When we got there we all unloaded and started carrying things down to the picnic table where my sister in law was nursing my niece, boob fully out and everything. We all awkwardly set down the kayaks, and other stuff and then headed straight back to the SUV to see "what else" there was to bring down aka give my sister in law some time. 

There was some privacy in that the picnic table had trees around it, but if you were on our side of the swim area you could definitely see it all. Tonight we were all watching a movie at my parents' and I turned towards the couch and saw that my sister in law was breast feeding again with no cover (though the lights were off). We had previously said that she could use our room if the baby was hungry.

This just really weirded out my wife and I - and I'm pretty sure my dad and maybe my sister, though I haven't talked to them about it. If someone wants to breast feed with a cover in public that doesn't really bother me, what really did it was that her shirt was more than half way off and you could pretty much see everything, breast, stomach, whatever.

Is this the new cool thing? I mean, I'm just getting to the point where some of my friends and family are having children, so have things changed that much since I was a kid or is this just inconsiderate?

I just don't like the feeling that I'm randomly going to see my sister in laws boobs whenever we see family. What if I was attracted to my sister in law? That would be really bad. Fortunately I'm not, but I don't want to see her partly naked either.


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## NotEasy

Similar stories have happened here recently. I think the accepted convention is to only expose the smallest amount and drape a cloth over the shoulder and baby. It feels like the accepted convention is changing.
A restaurant was ostracised for moving a woman who was discretely breastfeeding. 
There have also been cases of woman openly breast feeding on beaches that don't allow topless. I gather the police turn a blind eye (or try to).


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## EnjoliWoman

It's natural. Your discomfort is yours to own, not hers. It's not sexual and breastfeeding mothers aren't trying to flash boobs seductively. I've never seen exposed nipple, even prior to latching on and after - mothers tend to use the baby to block the view while discreetly pulling down (or up) a garment. I don't think draping is always necessary, either. Why should a baby have to eat with something over it's head? The air is stuffy pretty quickly. What if adults had to eat with a towel tented over their head and face? Also, eye contact with baby while feeding is an important part of bonding.

Just ignore it and focus on eye contact. In MANY countries breasts aren't so sexualized as they are in the US because topless sunbathing and openly breastfeeding is common.

And it's not new or cool - that's how mother mammals feed their babies. There was a brief period in history thanks to puritanical teachings, and then by vanity (that breastfeeding makes breasts less attractive/saggy) where breastfeeding wasn't as common but in the recent history, as in the last 50 years, more studies showing mother's milk is better for babies than ANY formula, that it's become more common for mothers to breastfeed and for longer. But that's not 'new' or 'cool'.

Just remember, every time YOU take your shirt off, she has to see your nipples. You don't have to see her nipples, just the fatty, glandular flesh around them.


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## SecondTime'Round

EnjoliWoman said:


> It's natural. Your discomfort is yours to own, not hers. It's not sexual and breastfeeding mothers aren't trying to flash boobs seductively. I've never seen exposed nipple, even prior to latching on and after - mothers tend to use the baby to block the view while discreetly pulling down (or up) a garment. I don't think draping is always necessary, either. Why should a baby have to eat with something over it's head? The air is stuffy pretty quickly. What if adults had to eat with a towel tented over their head and face? Also, eye contact with baby while feeding is an important part of bonding.
> 
> Just ignore it and focus on eye contact. In MANY countries breasts aren't so sexualized as they are in the US because topless sunbathing and openly breastfeeding is common.


Like, like, a thousand times LIKE! 

I've seen loads of moms breastfeeding in public and I don't think I've seen any of their nipples! And so what if I did? Men have nipples and show them in public all the time! They just don't have fat tissue and milk ducts underneath them!


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## 2ntnuf

With breastfeeding being more accepted, would it be gross if an adult was breastfeeding in public? Why don't more women go topless in public, at work and at home? Why is it acceptable for a breast to be exposed in public, only when a baby cries? What about children who are still breastfeeding at the age of three or four? Would that be acceptable in public? 

I've had one instance of a family member doing this. Now, this was back in the seventies and I was right around 12 years old. I wanted to see what was going on. I had no clue. I was too young or not yet educated enough to understand that staring was rude. My own parents did not like it at all and asked her to at least cover herself. It was distracting and I believe it's more a matter of showing off than acceptance. Otherwise, breast exposure would be accepted everywhere except in places with machinery that could be dangerous to be around when topless. 

This from a guy who loves breasts? Shocking!


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## the2ofus

Were you uncomfortable with the gals at the beach wearing bikinis? 

If it offends you to see her nursing in the dark during a movie why don't you just watch the movie. Why should she miss the movie so you can look around the room during the movie. I don't get it.

I saw babies and toddlers nursing as a kid, teen, and adult and I'm 42. It's nothing new. You're probably just noticing it now. It's really not sexual, it's just feeding a baby in the way nature provided.


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## coffee4me

Scantily clad women wearing low cut or sheer shirts, women in advertisements directed at men , celebrity wardrobe malfunction broadcast 10 million times over, women in bathing suits posting their boobs I mean pics on Facebook show more of their boobs to the public than any breast feeding mom I've ever seen. Yet the woman nursing her child in public makes people uncomfortable. Makes no sense.


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## 2ntnuf

Breasts were made for feeding. There's no other reason for them. Would it then be acceptable for an adult to breastfeed in public? It's still bonding, very healthy for the feeder and quite natural for a breast to be used in such a manner. 

Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?


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## SecondTime'Round

2ntnuf said:


> Breasts were made for feeding. There's no other reason for them. Would it then be acceptable for an adult to breastfeed in public? It's still bonding, very healthy for the feeder and quite natural for a breast to be used in such a manner.
> 
> Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? *Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?*


*
*

Because when you are breastfeeding, your breasts still fill up with milk even if you're sitting there bottle feeding (and very often just the act of feeding your baby will make the milk start to leak). So, the mother would have to bottle feed, THEN go pump somewhere to relieve the fullness (which leads to pain) from her breasts. That takes a LOT of time. Oh, and it would be nice if she could also have time to eat her own meal!


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## EnjoliWoman

2ntnuf said:


> With breastfeeding being more accepted, would it be gross if an adult was breastfeeding in public? *No. * Why don't more women go topless in public, at work and at home? *Because men don't go topless at work. That is gratuitous toplessness AND for the most part, going without a bra is rather uncomfortable. I wouldn't want to do it.*Why is it acceptable for a breast to be exposed in public, only when a baby cries? *I think topless sunbathing should be allowed.*What about children who are still breastfeeding at the age of three or four? Would that be acceptable in public? *Personally, I think once a child can use a cup, it's in the best interest of their oral health to stop breastfeeding. So I think 3 and 4 is too old. I know there are some who would disagree but I think those mothers are more concerned about their bond and the child 'needing' them to the point it's emotionally unhealthy even tho they use health of the child as a reason. Studies show 2 years is optimal.*
> 
> I've had one instance of a family member doing this. Now, this was back in the seventies and I was right around 12 years old. I wanted to see what was going on. I had no clue. I was too young or not yet educated enough to understand that staring was rude. My own parents did not like it at all and asked her to at least cover herself. It was distracting and I believe it's more a matter of showing off than acceptance. Otherwise, breast exposure would be accepted everywhere except in places with machinery that could be dangerous to be around when topless.
> 
> This from a guy who loves breasts? Shocking!


As to being 12, it would have been nice had your prudish parents or the other woman noticed you staring and explained it. Why is information so carefully guarded? My daughter saw a woman nursing on a bench in the mall when she was about 6. She asked "what is that woman doing?" And I told her. I talked about the cat that had kittens that she saw nursing. I told her all babies get milk from their mothers and that after having babies, mommies' bodies make milk that comes out the nipples for babies to drink. She ask if she got milk from my breasts when she was a baby and I told her I tried for 6 months but I didn't make enough milk and so I gave her both breast and formula milk. She absorbed that and moved on. She never thought twice about it after that and I never saw her staring after that.

I don't get the big hangups over our bodies. I used to be so uptight and hung up about so much and it was all due to the prudish, secretive nature I was raised in. I refuse to do that to MY daughter. Sometimes it's uncomfortable but I feel things need to be discussed so I try very hard to overcome that.

Nipples poking through a bra used to embarrass me. Well, my favorite bras are stretchy and thin. They are the most comfortable and flattering by giving me a more natural shape than push-ups or other lined bras. Sometimes the office is cold. So what? I'm not excited. I'm not trying to be titillating. WTF is the big deal. We all have them. They are only a big deal because of MARKETING.


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## Pluto2

2ntnuf said:


> Breasts were made for feeding. There's no other reason for them. Would it then be acceptable for an adult to breastfeed in public? It's still bonding, very healthy for the feeder and quite natural for a breast to be used in such a manner.
> 
> Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?


Never been around lactating women, have you.

Not every mom can breastfeed, for multiple reasons, some physiological, some employment, some preference or culture.

And breast pumps can hurt (at least for me they did). I could use one for a half-hour and still only get half a bottle. Yes, I used bottles and breast-I know a big no-no in some mother circles, but you do what you can to keep your baby healthy. So I would pump breast milk when possible and supplement with formula for those times when I was not around. 

OP, this is your issue, don't make it the Mom's


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## SecondTime'Round

@EnjoliWoman, I'm always on the lookout for comfortable bras. Please share the kind you wear!


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## EnjoliWoman

2ntnuf said:


> Breasts were made for feeding. There's no other reason for them. Would it then be acceptable for an adult to breastfeed in public? It's still bonding, very healthy for the feeder and quite natural for a breast to be used in such a manner.
> 
> Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?


Breast milk is for infants. It's for the developmental requirements of an infant. The bonding between mother and infant is about reassuring the infant that mother will provide them what they need both physically and emotionally so they feel safe enough to explore and grow, eventually growing AWAY from the breast. Breast feeding is about the parent/child relationship, not about adult relationships.

As to breast pumps, mothers can't always be with their babies. A lady here came back to work when her child was 4 months old. She still wants to provide that nourishment during the day and she can breastfeed in the evenings and at night. They were created to allow the mother to be away from her baby thanks to our modern 2-income world.


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## EnjoliWoman

SecondTime'Round said:


> @EnjoliWoman, I'm always on the lookout for comfortable bras. Please share the kind you wear!


I only wear Bali. 

Live it Up Underwire:









I love the lift from the "petals" on the side, the straps are padded and comfy, the cups stretch for comfortable movement and don't gap when you lean certain ways. And the sides come up high enough that they don't feel like they are cutting in. Have a purple one on right now.


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## 2ntnuf

Pluto,

Yes I have been around breastfeeding women. My own children were not breastfed, though I wanted them to be. My then wife had some issues with it and her mother "helped" by telling her it was disgusting. Thanks mom. 


Thank you everyone for answering my questions. I hope they were relevant to the op. My intentions were to learn something about the preferences of women and why they have those preferences. I very much appreciate your answers.

As to my parents, well, you'd have to know that they were much older than me and were a generation behind most of the parents of other children my age. Being that incident happened in the early to mid seventies, it was not common to see public breastfeeding, especially in the area I lived. 

I have never adult breastfed, but I know it is popular in some places and I wondered about it's acceptance. I do realize it's meant for the nourishment of an infant. It still does have benefits for the health of anyone. I am not looking to do it, myself, just learn more about things I never really thought much about. 

Thank you all.


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## the2ofus

2ntnuf said:


> ……………………………
> 
> Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?


So we should carry a cooler of milk with us on a hot summer day so the baby has something to eat, then find a place to heat it to the right temp and as mentioned earlier your breasts still fill with milk and it is extremely uncomfortable and then if you don't do something like pump soon you could soak a pack of wash clothes trying to catch it all and still end up with wet patches. If you are able to find a non germy place to pump, now you have to transport this milk home and keep it at optimal temperatures so it can be used for a future feeding. OR you could just feed the milk that is at the perfect temp that is right with you. I am thankful pumps have been invented so that a mom and child that need one has that choice. But to have to use one just because someone can't keep themselves from having to see what I'm up to and then feel guilty is ridiculous.

If a kid sees me nurse and wonders what's going on I explain it, sometimes as simply as non-chalantly saying the babies eating.


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## 2ntnuf

the2ofus said:


> So we should carry a cooler of milk with us on a hot summer day so the baby has something to eat, then find a place to heat it to the right temp and as mentioned earlier your breasts still fill with milk and it is extremely uncomfortable and then if you don't do something like pump soon you could soak a pack of wash clothes trying to catch it all and still end up with wet patches. If you are able to find a non germy place to pump, now you have to transport this milk home and keep it at optimal temperatures so it can be used for a future feeding. OR you could just feed the milk that is at the perfect temp that is right with you. I am thankful pumps have been invented so that a mom and child that need one has that choice. But to have to use one just because someone can't keep themselves from having to see what I'm up to and then feel guilty is ridiculous.
> 
> If a kid sees me nurse and wonders what's going on I explain it, sometimes as simply as non-chalantly saying the babies eating.


Definitely not telling you what you should or should not do. That's up to you. 

Do others have any rights in that? Does their opinion matter?

What if their parents didn't want to have to talk about that yet? Do they have a right to choose when their child is mature enough to know those things? 

What would be the easiest way to make sure your child gets fed and you do as well when confronted with possibly problematic situations? Would it be best to force others to comply with your standards? Would it be best to compromise somehow? Would it be best to feed the infant right before dinner? 

I don't claim to know the answers to these questions. I've never had to breastfeed an infant. I only have questions.


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## coffee4me

The2ofus, That post reminded me of all the work it was to pump. I went back to work when my son was 8 weeks old. I carted my breast pump with the built in cold section to and from my 50 hour a week job pumping 3/4 times a day at work for the next 6 months. Did that for my daughter too. 

There was no way in heck I was going to hassle with bottles and pumping when I was home or out somewhere with my child.


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## Shoto1984

It seems common sense and courteous to cover up enough so that its not so out there. We wear clothes in some situation and less clothes in others. Again, common sense needs to be applied. To pretend that breasts do not carry a sexual aspect to them is just silly. You can't say "In some instances my breasts are part of my sexuality and in some instances they're not and I get to jump back and forth and you have to know what is what" isn't practical.


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## Pluto2

@2ntnuf, I've never heard of adult breastfeeding before. Don't think its something I'd like to participate in, but I guess whatever floats your boat.

I'm sorry your wife didn't get support from family, it does makes a big difference.


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## 2ntnuf

coffee4me said:


> The2ofus, That post reminded me of all the work it was to pump. I went back to work when my son was 8 weeks old. I carted my breast pump with the built in cold section to and from my 50 hour a week job pumping 3/4 times a day at work for the next 6 months. Did that for my daughter too.
> 
> There was no way in heck I was going to hassle with bottles and pumping when I was home or out somewhere with my child.


Did you find a quiet location or just grab that puppy and let it all hang out till the infant got a good hold? 

Did you use a towel or some other cover over your shoulder or just continue to go on like nothing at all was happening of interest to anyone else? 

I'm guessing you were discreet as you could be, by many other posts I've read of your's. I could easily be mistaken. Apologies for assuming anything incorrect.


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## 2ntnuf

Pluto2 said:


> @2ntnuf, I've never heard of adult breastfeeding before. Don't think its something I'd like to participate in, but I guess whatever floats your boat.
> 
> I'm sorry your wife didn't get support from family, it does makes a big difference.


 @Pluto2,

I'd never heard of it either, until I came to TAM. I figured it might happen, but was something private and not very common.


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## the2ofus

In reality no one saw anything when I fed my children in public. I didn't wear a cover and I didn't go anywhere out of the way but I heard people comment many times thinking the baby was just sleeping. There really was no talk to be had but by my nephew who asked his parents what the baby was doing, his parents got flustered and I said eating. There are gonna be more talks walking down the street than what he saw from me.

In the OP they were at a swim area, I can't imagine there was more skin being shown on his SIL than on the beach. If a person is really offended by seeing boobs and a stomach why are they at the beach. A person trying to protect the right to not see that is foolish to go to the beach. And in the living room in the dark, he didn't have to see what everyone was doing. I have never seen a breastfeeding mom come shove her boobs in someones face. If only the gals walking down the street could be as discreet as most breastfeeding moms.


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## 2ntnuf

the2ofus;12883113[U said:


> ]In reality no one saw anything when I fed my children in public.[/U] I didn't wear a cover and I didn't go anywhere out of the way but I heard people comment many times thinking the baby was just sleeping. There really was no talk to be had but by my nephew who asked his parents what the baby was doing, his parents got flustered and I said eating. There are gonna be more talks walking down the street than what he saw from me.
> 
> In the OP they were at a swim area, I can't imagine there was more skin being shown on his SIL than on the beach. If a person is really offended by seeing boobs and a stomach why are they at the beach. A person trying to protect the right to not see that is foolish to go to the beach. And in the living room in the dark, he didn't have to see what everyone was doing. I have never seen a breastfeeding mom come shove her boobs in someones face. If only the gals walking down the street could be as discreet as most breastfeeding moms.


This isn't logical. If no one saw anything, there would be no questions asked. There would be no issues. It's all about some who don't want to see that and don't have a choice.


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## the2ofus

Shoto1984 said:


> It seems common sense and courteous to cover up enough so that its not so out there. We wear clothes in some situation and less clothes in others. Again, common sense needs to be applied. To pretend that breasts do not carry a sexual aspect to them is just silly. You can't say "In some instances my breasts are part of my sexuality and in some instances they're not and I get to jump back and forth and you have to know what is what" isn't practical.


This is why I think it's important for kids growing up to see breastfeeding as natural. It helps with that whole what's sexual and what's not. That is only confusing if you have not been exposed to it growing up and only been exposed to the sexualization of it. My husband had no trouble distinguishing his playtime and babies feeding time. 



coffee4me said:


> The2ofus, That post reminded me of all the work it was to pump. I went back to work when my son was 8 weeks old. I carted my breast pump with the built in cold section to and from my 50 hour a week job pumping 3/4 times a day at work for the next 6 months. Did that for my daughter too.
> 
> There was no way in heck I was going to hassle with bottles and pumping when I was home or out somewhere with my child.


I had friends who did this for months. One friend pumped exclusively for 3 months after baby was born while baby was in the hospital (heart surgery) baby even had this milk in it's feeding tube. Once baby went to the breast she said she never wanted to see another breast pump.:wink2:


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## coffee4me

2ntnuf said:


> Did you find a quiet location or just grab that puppy and let it all hang out till the infant got a good hold?
> 
> Did you use a towel or some other cover over your shoulder or just continue to go on like nothing at all was happening of interest to anyone else?
> 
> I'm guessing you were discreet as you could be, by many other posts I've read of your's. I could easily be mistaken. Apologies for assuming anything incorrect.


I nursed him where ever I was at the time, didnt necessarily look for a quiet location as that wasnt always possible. I usually was discreet and covered myself until my child latched on then I would take the cover away. 

The entire time I nursed my kids I don't ever recall getting one bad look from any stranger if they realized what I was doing. Most other moms who made eye contact with me smiled. 

I do recall the first time I nursed at my parents house was days after my son was born and I wasnt very good at managing all the dynamics of the open shirt the latching on baby. My dad walked in the room and in his Archie Bunker voice said "aggghhh geez!! Do you's have to do that in here". Lol. I said dad go in the other room, making me laugh is not helping me figure this out.


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## the2ofus

2ntnuf said:


> This isn't logical. If no one saw anything, there would be no questions asked. There would be no issues. It's all about some who don't want to see that and don't have a choice.


Baby was playing then a few minutes later snuggled to me. You saw the baby and me but no boob. 3 yr olds are just curious. The other people just commented at the cute baby sleeping. 

As for the moms who aren't discreet, you can't go out in public around here in the summer without seeing plenty of gals who are showing a lot. So the choice there is to stay home or learn to deal with it. If the problem is "knowing" a baby is latched on not seeing boobs than my feeling is it needs to be normalized.


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## the2ofus

coffee4me said:


> I do recall the first time I nursed at my parents house was days after my son was born and I wasnt very good at managing all the dynamics of the open shirt the latching on baby. My dad walked in the room and in his Archie Bunker voice said "aggghhh geez!! Do you's have to do that in here". Lol. I said dad go in the other room, making me laugh is not helping me figure this out.


From what I've heard of your dad, I can imagine that. :grin2:


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## 2ntnuf

Made me laugh and nod my head when I read what your dad said coffee.


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## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> If no one saw anything, there would be no questions asked. There would be no issues. It's all about some who don't want to see that and don't have a choice.


I've seen and heard people get offended when a woman drapes a blanket over herself, before pulling out her breast. They are mad because she didn't move, leave or go somewhere private. Some have been offended by the sucking noise. I've listened to people lose their mind when a baby starts crying and the woman grabs the blanket and says "baby's hungry."



No, nothing has to be seen for people to get offended.


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## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I've seen and heard people get offended when a woman drapes a blanket over herself, before pulling out her breast. They are mad because she didn't move, leave or go somewhere private. Some have been offended by the sucking noise. I've listened to people lose their mind when a baby starts crying and the woman grabs the blanket and says "baby's hungry."
> 
> 
> 
> No, nothing has to be seen for people to get offended.


Thanks for the thoughts. I suppose that is very true. I'd think what coffee did would be fairly well accepted most places and times. Don't you? 

Does that sucking noise make you look? It does me, when I don't realize what it is. I bet that's offensive to the breastfeeding mother. It's a shame there isn't some way to compromise and make everyone feel accepted. I know there isn't. I don't mind looking at breasts, even when they are filled with milk. Just try not to get any in my soda or food. :grin2:


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## jld

I have five children, and breastfed for over 15 years, nearly continuously. I breastfed everywhere, without a blanket over their heads, lol. 

I did not worry about what people thought about it. That was their issue.

My issue was making sure my babies, toddlers, and small children  got what Nature intended for them.


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## the2ofus

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I've seen and heard people get offended when a woman drapes a blanket over herself, before pulling out her breast. They are mad because she didn't move, leave or go somewhere private. Some have been offended by the sucking noise. I've listened to people lose their mind when a baby starts crying and the woman grabs the blanket and says "baby's hungry."
> 
> No, nothing has to be seen for people to get offended.


And don't forget those who are offended cause the baby is crying. Babies cry less when mom can just feed the baby without a big production.

We must also remember there are some, like my MIL, who are lookig for a reason to be offended. So no we can't make everyone happy. Wait if they are looking for a reason to complain are we actually making them happy by giving them something to complain about.:wink2:


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## 2ntnuf

jld said:


> I have five children, and breastfed for over 15 years, nearly continuously. I breastfed everywhere, without a blanket over their heads, lol.
> 
> I did not worry about what people thought about it. That was their issue.
> 
> My issue was making sure my babies, toddlers, and small children  got what Nature intended for them.


What would your reaction be if someone, man or woman give you one of these :wink2:. I bet there would have been an uproar like never heard before. But...you don't care what anyone thinks right? So, why so many defensive comments in this thread alone?

Git ma' point ever'one? It's not the top of my head. That's a different one. Take care everyone.


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## jld

2ntnuf said:


> What would your reaction be if someone, man or woman give you one of these :wink2:. I bet there would have been an uproar like never heard before. But...you don't care what anyone thinks right? So, why so many defensive comments in this thread alone?
> 
> Git ma' point ever'one? It's not the top of my head. That's a different one. Take care everyone.


I don't remember anyone ever giving me a wink. I was too focused on doing what needed to be done to even pay attention to externalities, I guess.


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## samyeagar

LetItHappen said:


> My family spent last weekend at the lake. *There were hundreds of people there*, this was a state park. My dad, my sister, and my wife and I (no kids yet) drove together to meet up with my brother and his wife. When we got there we all unloaded and started carrying things down to the picnic table where my sister in law was nursing my niece, boob fully out and everything. We all awkwardly set down the kayaks, and other stuff and then headed straight back to the SUV to see "what else" there was to bring down aka give my sister in law some time.
> 
> There was some privacy in that the picnic table had trees around it, but if you were on our side of the swim area you could definitely see it all. Tonight we were all watching a movie at my parents' and I turned towards the couch and saw that my sister in law was breast feeding again with no cover (though the lights were off). We had previously said that she could use our room if the baby was hungry.
> 
> This just really weirded out my wife and I - and I'm pretty sure my dad and maybe my sister, though I haven't talked to them about it. If someone wants to breast feed with a cover in public that doesn't really bother me, what really did it was that her shirt was more than half way off and *you could pretty much see everything, breast, stomach, whatever*.
> 
> Is this the new cool thing? I mean, I'm just getting to the point where some of my friends and family are having children, so have things changed that much since I was a kid or is this just inconsiderate?
> 
> I just don't like the feeling that I'm randomly going to see my sister in laws boobs whenever we see family. What if I was attracted to my sister in law? That would be really bad. Fortunately I'm not, but I don't want to see her partly naked either.


Presumably then, there were no women in bathing suits that showed stomach, significant portions of breast? Seriously, even uncovered nursing in public almost never shows more than what is otherwise considered acceptable.

As far as seeing your sister in laws boobs...well, if you're attracted to her, than that is your issue to deal with.


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## 2ntnuf

jld said:


> I don't remember anyone ever giving me a wink. I was too focused on doing what needed to be done to even pay attention to externalities, I guess.


So, you didn't get my point? For you, it's the top of my head? >

By they way, kudos on having so many. My own sister has six girls. Holy crap. Fun when I was lonely and visited, but no way I could ever have done it myself.


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## EnjoliWoman

2ntnuf said:


> Definitely not telling you what you should or should not do. That's up to you.
> 
> Do others have any rights in that? Does their opinion matter?
> 
> What if their parents didn't want to have to talk about that yet? Do they have a right to choose when their child is mature enough to know those things?
> 
> What would be the easiest way to make sure your child gets fed and you do as well when confronted with possibly problematic situations? Would it be best to force others to comply with your standards? Would it be best to compromise somehow? Would it be best to feed the infant right before dinner?
> 
> I don't claim to know the answers to these questions. I've never had to breastfeed an infant. I only have questions.


Other people's opinions don't always matter. This isn't a talk about sex so I don't understand a child being 'mature' enough to understand mothers make milk. And many children have younger siblings and learn about breastfeeding at age 3 or so. Heck, children who grow up in the country see animals mating. No need to shelter them from what is natural. 

Really, I have yet to see a nursing mother just lift up her shirt and expose her entire breast to the world before nuzzling the baby in. I always see mom snuggle baby very close with the head/face pressed in as she subtly lifts up her shirt and MAYBE a strip of breast an inch wide above baby's face shows. THAT shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable. 

As to choosing when baby eats, usually we can't do that. They are hungry when they are hungry. And early on they are hungry every 3-4 hours so a day or half a day at a lake park will involve several feedings. No way around it.


----------



## lucy999

EnjoliWoman said:


> It's natural. Your discomfort is yours to own, not hers. It's not sexual and breastfeeding mothers aren't trying to flash boobs seductively. I've never seen exposed nipple, even prior to latching on and after - mothers tend to use the baby to block the view while discreetly pulling down (or up) a garment. I don't think draping is always necessary, either. Why should a baby have to eat with something over it's head? The air is stuffy pretty quickly. What if adults had to eat with a towel tented over their head and face? Also, eye contact with baby while feeding is an important part of bonding.
> 
> Just ignore it and focus on eye contact. In MANY countries breasts aren't so sexualized as they are in the US because topless sunbathing and openly breastfeeding is common.
> 
> And it's not new or cool - that's how mother mammals feed their babies. There was a brief period in history thanks to puritanical teachings, and then by vanity (that breastfeeding makes breasts less attractive/saggy) where breastfeeding wasn't as common but in the recent history, as in the last 50 years, more studies showing mother's milk is better for babies than ANY formula, that it's become more common for mothers to breastfeed and for longer. But that's not 'new' or 'cool'.
> 
> Just remember, every time YOU take your shirt off, she has to see your nipples. You don't have to see her nipples, just the fatty, glandular flesh around them.


:allhail:


----------



## NobodySpecial

2ntnuf said:


> Did you find a quiet location or just grab that puppy and let it all hang out till the infant got a good hold?
> [/quote
> You don't have much out during latch once you get good at it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [\
> Did you use a towel or some other cover over your shoulder or just continue to go on like nothing at all was happening of interest to anyone else?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't. Usually shirts or whatever was enough. But I was not going to make it harder for my baby to breath by covering up his or her head.
> 
> I did not see humoring someone else' feelings as important as feeding my baby.
Click to expand...


----------



## Shoto1984

Sophia and I are big fans of exposed breasts....  (couldn't resist...)


----------



## lucy999

For those of you who find public breastfeeding gross and weird and inappropriate, I think _you're _ the gross, weird, and inappropriate one for sexualizing breastfeeding.


----------



## 2ntnuf

EnjoliWoman said:


> Other people's opinions don't always matter. This isn't a talk about sex so I don't understand a child being 'mature' enough to understand mothers make milk. And many children have younger siblings and learn about breastfeeding at age 3 or so. Heck, children who grow up in the country see animals mating. No need to shelter them from what is natural.


In some communities, it's less than proper to teach children more than they need to know before they can properly understand it. I think the parents of each child deserve the right to choose how they want their child/ren raised. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> Really, I have yet to see a nursing mother just lift up her shirt and expose her entire breast to the world before nuzzling the baby in. I always see mom snuggle baby very close with the head/face pressed in as she subtly lifts up her shirt and MAYBE a strip of breast an inch wide above baby's face shows. THAT shouldn't make anyone uncomfortable.


I tend to agree, but know that mother's carry small soft towels and wraps and so forth for their infant in many cases and I lean more toward what coffee used to do. It's just who I am. You don't have to hate me for it. It's not evil or abusive. It's just more....classy?...not sure of the correct word. It feels more refined and mannered than anything else I read. No offense meant to anyone. This is my opinion only. I don't ask or want anyone to change. I am just getting an education here. 



EnjoliWoman said:


> As to choosing when baby eats, usually we can't do that. They are hungry when they are hungry. And early on they are hungry every 3-4 hours so a day or half a day at a lake park will involve several feedings. No way around it.


Exactly, every three to four hours and usually you can set a clock within a half hour of that, when they are fed properly. I do admit there are times when they get hungry out of nowhere. Maybe they had a burp and couldn't fill up? Once that's gone, they are hungry. Or maybe they have to go poo and once that's finished, they are hungry. I realize what you are telling me.


----------



## 2ntnuf

lucy999 said:


> For those of you who find public breastfeeding gross and weird and inappropriate, I think _you're _ the gross, weird, and inappropriate one for sexualizing breastfeeding.


In some places, you'd be the odd one. :smile2:


----------



## jld

I nursed on demand. While some of my babies were able to wait three hours to feed, not all of them could. And certainly not all the time.


----------



## NobodySpecial

2ntnuf said:


> In some communities, it's less than proper to teach children more than they need to know before they can properly understand it. I think the parents of each child deserve the right to choose how they want their child/ren raised.


Just googled preschool mammal lessons. Mammals, apparently, feed their young milk from mammary glands.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

I don't see it a problem for a child of any age to learn what breastfeeding is. I answered my daughter's question directly with tact. I have found that answering their questions in an age-appropriate way usually satisfies them and they are off to another topic quickly. 

I understand that teaching about sex, telling a child about Santa or religion isn't anyone else's job. But trying to HIDE breastfeeding is silly. So as a culture we're more wiling to read "Everybody Poops" to a child yet don't want them to see a baby suckling where really all you see is the back of baby's head and mom's shirt rumpled up around a sliver of flesh?


----------



## EnjoliWoman

And I just don't think drapes are necessary unless the outfit is one that is difficult to get the breast out of. 

As a mother, holding and feeding your baby while they look up at you making eye contact is a most amazing, loving, connection that two humans can make. And this connection is very important to the psychological well-being of a child.


----------



## Pluto2

A mother breastfeeding a baby isn't sexual.


----------



## NobodySpecial

EnjoliWoman said:


> And I just don't think drapes are necessary unless the outfit is one that is difficult to get the breast out of.
> 
> As a mother, holding and feeding your baby while they look up at you making eye contact is a most amazing, loving, connection that two humans can make. And this connection is very important to the psychological well-being of a child.


Not struggling to breathe is good too.


----------



## Anonymous07

2ntnuf said:


> Breasts were made for feeding. There's no other reason for them. Would it then be acceptable for an adult to breastfeed in public? It's still bonding, very healthy for the feeder and quite natural for a breast to be used in such a manner.
> 
> Why do they make bottles and breast pumps? What do you do when the child must be left with a sitter? Why wouldn't one of those choices be just as acceptable as breastfeeding an infant in public?


I've never heard of adult breastfeeding. My husband has tasted breast milk, but doesn't 'nurse'. Breast milk is necessary for an infant/baby's development. They absolutely have to have either breast milk or formula for the first year of life, which is very different from an adult's dietary needs. 

I went back to work part-time when my son was 6 weeks old. I pumped and had breast milk available for my husband to feed him while I was away at work. I hated pumping! It's uncomfortable and a lot of work. To pump, clean everything, store the milk, warm it up when it's needed, etc. Ugh. It is so much easier to latch baby on the boob and it also is much better for milk production. A baby naturally regulates how much milk the mom produces(all about supply and demand). When baby nurses, it tells mom's body to produce more milk. Many times when women pump often, it creates an oversupply and is uncomfortable for mom. No thanks! 

I happily nursed my son until he was 18 months old. It definitely helped keep him healthy(rarely ever sick). I nursed him where ever we were, when ever he was hungry. I used a cover in the beginning, mostly because my mom and others made me feel uncomfortable, but eventually became more secure and nursed more freely(tank top trick). 

It really helps the breastfeeding mother when others are supportive. I almost wanted to give up a number of times because of how relatives and others made me feel, even though I personally had strong feelings of wanting to breastfeed. It meant a lot to me when my mom finally came around and was more supportive of me nursing, encouraging me to continue instead of acting weird about it.


----------



## 2ntnuf

NobodySpecial said:


> Just googled preschool mammal lessons. Mammals, apparently, feed their young milk from mammary glands.


Not if you were my children's mother. And I wanted her to breastfeed. 

Can you accept that your opinion isn't the only one or the only correct one? 


Okay, find another whipping boy. I've had my fill. You've made your point that I should be ashamed, not anyone doing something to expose themselves, whether it is sexualized or not.

There are many opinions. I hope some of you can learn how to accept others more and quit feeling like a victim for what you are doing. If you can't, I'm sorry for you. You don't deserve that. 

Take care.


----------



## NobodySpecial

2ntnuf said:


> Not if you were my children's mother. And I wanted her to breastfeed.


Presumably you did not send them to preschool either. I know that that was part of the preschool lesson plans when I ran a preschool. What WOULD you teach a preschooler about mammals?

I don't see the point in hiding information from children. Strikes me frankly, as dishonest and a touch spooky.



> Can you accept that your opinion isn't the only one or the only correct one?


Is there some reason that discussing my PoV is wrong? 


> Okay, find another whipping boy. I've had my fill. You've made your point that I should be ashamed, not anyone doing something to expose themselves, whether it is sexualized or not.
> 
> There are many opinions. I hope some of you can learn how to accept others more and quit feeling like a victim for what you are doing. If you can't, I'm sorry for you. You don't deserve that.
> 
> Take care.


Otay.


----------



## jld

My mother said the way the baby would be fed should be the mother's decision.

That said, my husband was pretty insistent our kids be breastfed.


----------



## NobodySpecial

jld said:


> My mother said the way the baby would be fed should be the mother's decision.
> 
> That said, my husband was pretty insistent our kids be breastfed.


I think this is a PARENTAL decision not just a mother decision. Presumably Dad cares about the well being of his child.


----------



## jld

NobodySpecial said:


> I think this is a PARENTAL decision not just a mother decision. Presumably Dad cares about the well being of his child.


But I was the one actually doing it.

That is why the right to abort is given to the mother, not the father, right?


----------



## the2ofus

EnjoliWoman said:


> As to choosing when baby eats, usually we can't do that. They are hungry when they are hungry. And early on they are hungry every 3-4 hours so a day or half a day at a lake park will involve several feedings. No way around it.


Some babies are lucky to make it 2 hrs. I've had 6 and they've all been different.



2ntnuf said:


> In some communities, it's less than proper to teach children more than they need to know before they can properly understand it. I think the parents of each child deserve the right to choose how they want their child/ren raised.
> 
> I will try to remember it is not good to tell other peoples kids that the milk in the jug at the store comes from a cow.
> 
> I tend to agree, but know that mother's carry small soft towels and wraps and so forth for their infant in many cases and I lean more toward what coffee used to do. It's just who I am. You don't have to hate me for it. It's not evil or abusive. It's just more....classy?...not sure of the correct word. It feels more refined and mannered than anything else I read. No offense meant to anyone. This is my opinion only. I don't ask or want anyone to change. I am just getting an education here.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly, every three to four hours and usually you can set a clock within a half hour of that, when they are fed properly. I do admit there are times when they get hungry out of nowhere. Maybe they had a burp and couldn't fill up? Once that's gone, they are hungry. Or maybe they have to go poo and once that's finished, they are hungry. I realize what you are telling me.


Matters kid by kid how long they can go between feedings.

I found a got less "looks" from people when I stopped using a cover. Everyone knew what I was doing with a cover, without it no one knew.


----------



## jld

Yeah, I think the cover looks weird, too. Jmo!


----------



## LonelyinLove

Yes, BF is natural. So is barfing.

Yes, women should be able to BF in public.

No, women should not become BF Nazi's when they know they can cover a bit.

It works both ways.


----------



## Anonymous07

2ntnuf said:


> Not if you were my children's mother. And I wanted her to breastfeed.
> 
> Can you accept that your opinion isn't the only one or the only correct one?


It's not an opinion as for what breasts are meant to do. They are there to feed babies. That is their purpose. 



jld said:


> My mother said the way the baby would be fed should be the mother's decision.


It absolutely is the mother's choice and should be. I have a good mom friend who chose to formula feed her daughter and I see no issue with that. She had her reasons and I would never fault her for that. I just hope that the mother, what ever her decision, gets support from those around her. I think my experience with breastfeeding would have been different if I had more support, as I really struggled in the beginning.


----------



## Shoto1984

Pluto2 said:


> A mother breastfeeding a baby isn't sexual.


But most of the time breasts are which is partly why this is an interesting topic.


----------



## Pluto2

NobodySpecial said:


> I think this is a PARENTAL decision not just a mother decision. Presumably Dad cares about the well being of his child.


Great if their both on the same page, but unless Dad is lactating, its really up to the Mom.


----------



## 2ntnuf

NobodySpecial said:


> Presumably you did not send them to preschool either. I know that that was part of the preschool lesson plans when I ran a preschool. What WOULD you teach a preschooler about mammals?
> 
> I don't see the point in hiding information from children. Strikes me frankly, as dishonest and a touch spooky.
> 
> 
> Is there some reason that discussing my PoV is wrong?
> 
> 
> Otay.


You are one of the most abusive women I know. You have a closed mind and very little compassion, unless it concerns you. I'm sorry you have to be so rude to so many who just don't agree with you all the time. It isn't becoming at all. And, you wonder so many times why you get such rude responses and insinuating comments. 

I don't deserve the verbal abuse you are dishing out. Many of them don't either. 

What good did it do you to post like that to me? 

And, insulting my very own children is child abuse.

How would you feel if someone attacked your innocent children? I won't report you for this, but I sure hope someone else gives you some time to think. You deserve it for this.


----------



## Anonymous07

LonelyinLove said:


> Yes, BF is natural. So is barfing.
> 
> Yes, women should be able to BF in public.
> 
> No, women should not become BF Nazi's when they know they can cover a bit.
> 
> It works both ways.


My son refused to nurse when covered. He would just pull it right off of him, so the cover was pointless. Women show a lot more skin in bikinis and other scantily clad clothing than most breastfeeding women show while nursing.


----------



## NobodySpecial

There is something abusive about asking what you would teach a preschooler about mammals? I am a bit flummoxed.


----------



## jld

Breastfeeding is the superior way to feed babies. That is what even the formula companies admit in their literature.

Because the benefits to human health from breastfeeding are great, and can save money long term in health care costs, we need to educate the public and make mothers feel as comfortable as possible when they are feeding. It is in all of our best interests.

People who have sexual issues with it can address those separately. Their triggers are not the priority.


----------



## the2ofus

LonelyinLove said:


> Yes, BF is natural. So is barfing.
> 
> Yes, women should be able to BF in public.
> 
> No, women should not become BF Nazi's when they know they can cover a bit.
> 
> It works both ways.


Barfing is when something is not right and full of germs and smelly not really comparable.

Just because we don't use a cover doesn't mean we flaunt it. A guy who wanted to catch a glimpse of something (even skin) would have been sorely disappointed. I had a lot of practice with 6 kids. I lived in a pretty conservative area when I started having kids and he hated covers and would overheat so I learned to do well without.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Anonymous07 said:


> My son refused to nurse when covered. He would just pull it right off of him, so the cover was pointless. Women show a lot more skin in bikinis and other scantily clad clothing than most breastfeeding women show while nursing.


Well then, consider the appropriate conditions....when, where, what is going on...all factors to consider before you whip it out.

Just because you can, and it's "natural" doesn't mean you always should.

Again, courtesy works both ways. In my house...whip it out. In church...that's why we have a nursing room.


----------



## LonelyinLove

the2ofus said:


> Barfing is when something is not right and full of germs and smelly not really comparable.
> 
> Just because we don't use a cover doesn't mean we flaunt it. A guy who wanted to catch a glimpse of something (even skin) would have been sorely disappointed. I had a lot of practice with 6 kids. I lived in a pretty conservative area when I started having kids and he hated covers and would overheat so I learned to do well without.


Barfing is natural and a body fluid, just like breast milk.

Breast milk is smelly and can spread disease. 

I have 4 kids and grew up in a conservative area not to mention I have a career in Health Care. 

Breastfeeding is normal and beneficial for the babies whose mothers are able to do it.

That said, there is nothing wrong with mothers showing some courtesy to those around them, especially if they are in a public area. With rights come responsibilities.


----------



## jld

LonelyinLove said:


> Barfing is natural and a body fluid, just like breast milk.
> 
> Breast milk is smelly and can spread disease.
> 
> I have 4 kids and grew up in a conservative area not to mention I have a career in Health Care.
> 
> Breastfeeding is normal and beneficial for the babies whose mothers are able to do it.
> 
> That said, there is nothing wrong with mothers showing some courtesy to those around them, especially if they are in a public area. With rights come responsibilities.


What is the priority? That babies are nursed, or that others feel comfortable?

And barf does not serve anyone's interests.


----------



## Anonymous07

LonelyinLove said:


> Well then, consider the appropriate conditions....when, where, what is going on...all factors to consider before you whip it out.
> 
> Just because you can, and it's "natural" doesn't mean you always should.
> 
> Again, courtesy works both ways. In my house...whip it out. In church...that's why we have a nursing room.


If my son is hungry, he is going to be fed. There is no nursing room at my church, so he was fed where we were. I wasn't going to leave and hide somewhere to nurse my son because someone else has a problem with it. Even the Pope has publicly encouraged mother's to openly breastfeed their babies, in church or where ever. I can't think of any situation where it would be inappropriate. It's a baby eating.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

LonelyinLove said:


> Barfing is natural and a body fluid, just like breast milk.
> 
> Breast milk is smelly and can spread disease.
> 
> I have 4 kids and grew up in a conservative area not to mention I have a career in Health Care.
> 
> Breastfeeding is normal and beneficial for the babies whose mothers are able to do it.
> 
> That said, there is nothing wrong with mothers showing some courtesy to those around them, especially if they are in a public area. With rights come responsibilities.


Well barf is stomach acid, bile and consumed food/drink. Breast milk isn't smelly unless it has spoiled??? It only can spread HIV or Hepatitis to a baby who drinks it when the mother has it and that is extremely rare so spreading disease is an uninformed comment, tho I'm glad to see you generally support it.

I also agree being courteous so as to not make others uncomfortable is a social nicety but again, I've yet to see a nursing mother whip out a breast, with the entire breast in full view. EVERY nursing mother I've seen in public HAS been courteous.

And your church makes mothers go to another room to nurse? Egads. Shouldn't they be just the group to support a mother using her body as 'GOD' intended it? Discreetly? Why should she miss the sermon because baby's hunger strikes during service? Because men won't be able to control their gaze at the gorgeous globes in the hopes of getting a peek of nipple?

The rest of the public should be just as discreet, encouraging and responsible as the BF mother. Don't stare or point. Just let them be and ignore.


----------



## Pluto2

LonelyinLove said:


> Well then, consider the appropriate conditions....when, where, what is going on...all factors to consider before you whip it out.
> 
> Just because you can, and it's "natural" doesn't mean you always should.
> 
> Again, courtesy works both ways. In my house...whip it out. In church...that's why we have a nursing room.


Your telling a Mom she has to hide what she's doing, as if it were salacious, when its not. By saying its the wrong time, or in front of the wrong people ren't you really foisting your hangups on her and the baby?


----------



## jld

I went to a church like that. Once.


----------



## Maricha75

My oldest is 14. My youngest two are 8 and almost 7. I breastfed each of them, whether at home or out in public. I never used a cover, and my breasts are not small in the least lol. No one knew, for certain, that I was nursing unless they got right in my face. And, if I didn't know them, they had no business being THAT close to me. 

I tried pumping. Never could pump more than half an ounce. I did attempt formula at one point, as well, with each baby. They screamed each time. I produced enough milk to feed them... no more, no less. And I fed them at church, at the mall, at the grocery store... everywhere. 

My oldest was 5 when his sister was born. My niece was also 5, and my nephew was 8. They asked what I was doing and I said I was feeding the baby. My kids all know that some babies are fed with bottles and some are fed by breasts. There is no age that is "mature enough" to tell a child that a baby is being fed. That argument is ridiculous. It's easy to say, "Some mommies feed their babies with a bottle. Some mommies feed their babies from their breasts. Some do both." It's only when the parents get caught up in the sexualization of breasts that it gets "difficult". Kids don't care. They ask why, they are satisfied with simple answers.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Some breastfeeding women have turned into Nazi's.

There are a lot of natural, God designed activities that are better left off the public palate.

Let's just install a commode at the end of every church pew row then....I mean it's natural and as God intended. Maybe the next time the couple who are trying to conceive can just go right at it if her temps are right for conception....it is natural and as God intended. 

I used to work L&D, so if you think I'm clueless, I'm not. 

There is a time and a place for everything....and again....courtesy should dictate actions. If you think the older gentleman in the church next to you may be uncomfortable when you whip out your boob, and there is a lovely room with cushioned rockers and a wide-screen display of the service, how about going to the location where you can be comfortable and so can your fellow church goer. It isn't always about the breastfeeder, although many seem to think it is.


----------



## Maricha75

You know, the churches I have attended do have little rooms like that. However, they aren't JUST for nursing a baby. They are equipped to care for infants and toddlers who are fussy/antsy. There were speakers in tgem, so none of the sermon was missed. And moms were not the only parents in the rooms, either. Even bottle fed babies were taken in there.


----------



## Somanylemons

I breastfed my son and I did it in public many times. Usually I used a cover. I never had one complaint.

It frustrates me when people become hostile to breastfeeding women, or mothers generally because we literally cannot win.

If we bottle feed our babies we are not doing it the way God intended, filling them full of chemicals etc etc.

If we breastfeed in public we are called disgusting and a public health hazard.

If you breastfeed in a bathroom you are told you are dirty and disgusting and risking your babies health.

If you don't breastfeed and your baby is crying you are told you are being disruptive and shouldn't be in public. 

If you decide you are sick of being judged and decide to stay at home - you are a bad mother because you are not socialising your baby.

If you decide to give the whole thing a miss and avoid society sticking its nose into your life, well then you are a terrible and selfish women who selfishly doesn't want to have babies. 

It's endless and exhausting.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

LonelyinLove said:


> Some breastfeeding women have turned into Nazi's.
> 
> There are a lot of natural, God designed activities that are better left off the public palate.
> 
> Let's just install a commode at the end of every church pew row then....I mean it's natural and as God intended. Maybe the next time the couple who are trying to conceive can just go right at it if her temps are right for conception....it is natural and as God intended.
> 
> I used to work L&D, so if you think I'm clueless, I'm not.
> 
> There is a time and a place for everything....and again....courtesy should dictate actions. If you think the older gentleman in the church next to you may be uncomfortable when you whip out your boob, and there is a lovely room with cushioned rockers and a wide-screen display of the service, how about going to the location where you can be comfortable and so can your fellow church goer. It isn't always about the breastfeeder, although many seem to think it is.


Ironic Godwin alert, I'm out.


----------



## Maricha75

Also, regarding the amount if time between feedings... 

Ok, generally, a formula fed baby can go 3-5 hours between bottles, averaging at 4 hours, of course. Breastfed babies, it is usually 2-3 hours. The problem, though, is that many calculate that from the end of one feeding to the beginning of the next. That isn't correct. If is from the beginning of the first to the beginning of the second. So, if the bsby actually nurses fir an hour, and is hungry an hour after that is over, that is actually 2 hours between feedings. And if going through a growth spurt and cluster feeding... forget timing it!


----------



## NobodySpecial

LonelyinLove said:


> There is a time and a place for everything....and again....*courtesy should dictate actions*.


I just don't agree with this. Rules of cortousy are almost never readily agreed upon. In any event, that just does not strike me as as important as other considerations.


----------



## LonelyinLove

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Ironic Godwin alert, I'm out.




LOL....as if.


----------



## LonelyinLove

Somanylemons said:


> I breastfed my son and I did it in public many times. Usually I used a cover. I never had one complaint.
> 
> It frustrates me when people become hostile to breastfeeding women, or mothers generally because we literally cannot win.
> 
> If we bottle feed our babies we are not doing it the way God intended, filling them full of chemicals etc etc.
> 
> If we breastfeed in public we are called disgusting and a public health hazard.
> 
> If you breastfeed in a bathroom you are told you are dirty and disgusting and risking your babies health.
> 
> If you don't breastfeed and your baby is crying you are told you are being disruptive and shouldn't be in public.
> 
> If you decide you are sick of being judged and decide to stay at home - you are a bad mother because you are not socialising your baby.
> 
> If you decide to give the whole thing a miss and avoid society sticking its nose into your life, well then you are a terrible and selfish women who selfishly doesn't want to have babies.
> 
> It's endless and exhausting.


The same with cloth vs. disposable diapers.


----------



## the2ofus

Somanylemons said:


> I breastfed my son and I did it in public many times. Usually I used a cover. I never had one complaint.
> 
> It frustrates me when people become hostile to breastfeeding women, or mothers generally because we literally cannot win.
> 
> If we bottle feed our babies we are not doing it the way God intended, filling them full of chemicals etc etc.
> 
> If we breastfeed in public we are called disgusting and a public health hazard.
> 
> If you breastfeed in a bathroom you are told you are dirty and disgusting and risking your babies health.
> 
> If you don't breastfeed and your baby is crying you are told you are being disruptive and shouldn't be in public.
> 
> If you decide you are sick of being judged and decide to stay at home - you are a bad mother because you are not socialising your baby.
> 
> If you decide to give the whole thing a miss and avoid society sticking its nose into your life, well then you are a terrible and selfish women who selfishly doesn't want to have babies.
> 
> It's endless and exhausting.


Yep



NobodySpecial said:


> I just don't agree with this. Rules of cortousy are almost never readily agreed upon. In any event, that just does not strike me as as important as other considerations.


Why? I think a society can be measured by the courtesy they show to their weakest members. Everyone else should be able to show some understanding. Who are we expecting to be the mature grown ups.


----------



## Idyit

Lots of passion

The OP seemed to be saying that the entire breast or both were uncovered as he said "everything". (shirt half way off) If this were the case does it change the responses? Maybe OP will come back and clarify.

~ Passio


----------



## Maricha75

Idyit said:


> Lots of passion
> 
> The OP seemed to be saying that the entire breast or both were uncovered as he said "everything". (shirt half way off) If this were the case does it change the responses? Maybe OP will come back and clarify.
> 
> ~ Passio


Please. I have heard that argument before and there was MAYBE a sliver of skin showing above the baby's head and/or part of her stomach below the baby. So, no, his description doesn't change my response at all. Baby is hungry, baby gets fed. End of discussion.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Whenever I notice a woman breastfeeding in public it is by mistake. And it doesn't happen very often.

I am guessing that I have been around breast feeding women hundreds if not thousands of times and didn't even know it.

If you have a problem with women breast feeding in public, then you really should take a look at the level of tolerance you are displaying in the society you are living in.


----------



## Idyit

More passion.

Maricha, are you saying that most definitely her full breast was not exposed? I wasn't there, that's why I'm asking OP to respond.

So lets go hypothetical till he does respond. Is there a line? Would full breast exposure cross that line? Is there a time limit for full breast exposure, like a quick oops flash is ok but showing off God's natural breast enhancement for a while is a no no?

~ Passio


----------



## samyeagar

Idyit said:


> More passion.
> 
> Maricha, are you saying that most definitely her full breast was not exposed? I wasn't there, that's why I'm asking OP to respond.
> 
> So lets go hypothetical till he does respond. Is there a line? Would full breast exposure cross that line? Is there a time limit for full breast exposure, like a quick oops flash is ok but showing off God's natural breast enhancement for a while is a no no?
> 
> ~ Passio


In my experience, I am almost certain the language he used is hyperbole, it almost always is.

I spent several summers as a lifeguard at a water park, and you'd be astounded at the number of females who lost their bikini tops on the water slides...lots them as in complete exposure of both breasts. There was no public outcry requesting that girls in bikinis be banned from using the slides, nor was there even a suggestion of having a separate, discreet water slide just for girls in bikinis.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

LonelyinLove said:


> Some breastfeeding women have turned into Nazi's.
> 
> There are a lot of natural, God designed activities that are better left off the public palate.
> 
> Let's just install a commode at the end of every church pew row then....I mean it's natural and as God intended. Maybe the next time the couple who are trying to conceive can just go right at it if her temps are right for conception....it is natural and as God intended.
> 
> I used to work L&D, so if you think I'm clueless, I'm not.
> 
> There is a time and a place for everything....and again....courtesy should dictate actions. If you think the older gentleman in the church next to you may be uncomfortable when you whip out your boob, and there is a lovely room with cushioned rockers and a wide-screen display of the service, how about going to the location where you can be comfortable and so can your fellow church goer. It isn't always about the breastfeeder, although many seem to think it is.


In the situation you describe, I agree with this. (I never would have nursed a baby in a church sanctuary, nor would I have bottle fed one.....babies who are apt to start crying/spit up/burp loudly should be in the nursery/separate room, but of course this could open up a whole 'nother debate about kids in church!)

But, nursing a baby in a dirty restaurant bathroom? No.


----------



## Idyit

samyeagar said:


> In my experience, I am almost certain the language he used is *hyperbole*, it almost always is.
> 
> *Maybe. Hopefully OP will clear it up for his particular situation. As I asked before, what if it was full boob? Is there a certain amount of time that would cross the line? Or is everything ok as long as the baby is hungry? Let's say kiddo is hungry in church. Is it ok to have full breast exposure in the sanctuary for 30 seconds, full sermon? I'm pointing out that there is a line some where, no?*
> 
> I spent several summers as a lifeguard at a water park, and you'd be astounded at the number of females who lost their bikini tops on the water slides...lots them as in complete exposure of both breasts. There was no public outcry requesting that girls in bikinis be banned from using the slides, nor was there even a suggestion of having a separate, discreet water slide just for girls in bikinis.
> 
> *Men like boobs*


~ Passio


----------



## samyeagar

Idyit said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by samyeagar View Post
> In my experience, I am almost certain the language he used is hyperbole, it almost always is.
> 
> Maybe. Hopefully OP will clear it up for his particular situation. As I asked before, what if it was full boob? Is there a certain amount of time that would cross the line? Or is everything ok as long as the baby is hungry? Let's say kiddo is hungry in church. Is it ok to have full breast exposure in the sanctuary for 30 seconds, full sermon? I'm pointing out that there is a line some where, no?
> 
> I spent several summers as a lifeguard at a water park, and you'd be astounded at the number of females who lost their bikini tops on the water slides...lots them as in complete exposure of both breasts. There was no public outcry requesting that girls in bikinis be banned from using the slides, nor was there even a suggestion of having a separate, discreet water slide just for girls in bikinis.
> 
> *Men like boobs*
> 
> ~ Passio


Ahhh...now we get to the heart of it...the problem is not that boobs are exposed, rather whose, and for what purpose that makes the difference if it is fine or not.


----------



## WorkingWife

2ntnuf said:


> With breastfeeding being more accepted, would it be gross if an adult was breastfeeding in public?


By adult breastfeeding, do you mean an adult feeding off another adult in public? Like here you are sitting at the airport waiting to board and you look over and a 30 year old is nursing off the woman sitting beside you?:surprise:


----------



## WorkingWife

LonelyinLove said:


> Some breastfeeding women have turned into Nazi's.
> 
> There are a lot of natural, God designed activities that are better left off the public palate.
> 
> Let's just install a commode at the end of every church pew row then....I mean it's natural and as God intended. Maybe the next time the couple who are trying to conceive can just go right at it if her temps are right for conception....it is natural and as God intended.
> 
> I used to work L&D, so if you think I'm clueless, I'm not.
> 
> There is a time and a place for everything....and again....courtesy should dictate actions. If you think the older gentleman in the church next to you may be uncomfortable when you whip out your boob, and there is a lovely room with cushioned rockers and a wide-screen display of the service, how about going to the location where you can be comfortable and so can your fellow church goer. It isn't always about the breastfeeder, although many seem to think it is.


That is exactly what I was thinking - I'm not saying it's wrong to breast feed in public, but there are plenty of "natural" things that cultural norms dictate we do in private. Like defecating...


----------



## 2ntnuf

WorkingWife said:


> By adult breastfeeding, do you mean an adult feeding off another adult in public? Like here you are sitting at the airport waiting to board and you look over and a 30 year old is nursing off the woman sitting beside you?:surprise:


Damnit, I forgot the sarcastic emoticon. I'll put it in this post. You can think of it when you consider that one. 

But, think about this. Would a woman have the same feelings no matter who she is breastfeeding? If so, and public breastfeeding is not sexual and it's beautiful in every way, why the shock at the sarcastic remark? I'm going to insert a wink here with words. And, I'm going to ask you to consider what I said and how someone might look at it. 

I don't think any woman should be ashamed of showing her breasts in public. Wait...I don't know if I'd care for that. Others might see nothing wrong with it. I think discretion is the better part of valor.


----------



## Maricha75

Idyit said:


> More passion.
> 
> Maricha, are you saying that most definitely her full breast was not exposed? I wasn't there, that's why I'm asking OP to respond.
> 
> So lets go hypothetical till he does respond. Is there a line? Would full breast exposure cross that line? Is there a time limit for full breast exposure, like a quick oops flash is ok but showing off God's natural breast enhancement for a while is a no no?
> 
> ~ Passio


It doesn't bother me regardless. If topless sunbathing is ok, if wearing a tiny scrap of cloth is ok, why is it not ok to show the flesh AROUND the nipple and areola? It certainly wouldn't bother me, and I wouldn't have a problem if my husband and kids saw a woman feeding her baby, no matter how much of the breast was showing around the baby's head. And, no, I cannot say for certain that the OP SIL was or was not showing her entire breast before God and everyone. What I am saying is that it has been my experience that those who are uncomfortable with it, who would rather the mother hole herself up in another room while everyone else is enjoying a meal or movie or whatever, are most often exaggerating the facts of what really occurred. Hence my comment that I sincerely doubt she was letting it all hang out.


----------



## Idyit

samyeagar said:


> Ahhh...now we get to the heart of it...*the problem* is not that boobs are exposed, rather whose, and for what purpose that makes the difference if it is fine or not.


No. This is the heart of it.

*"Maybe. Hopefully OP will clear it up for his particular situation. As I asked before, what if it was full boob? Is there a certain amount of time that would cross the line? Or is everything ok as long as the baby is hungry? Let's say kiddo is hungry in church. Is it ok to have full breast exposure in the sanctuary for 30 seconds, full sermon? I'm pointing out that there is a line some where, no?"*

Is there a problem? Not on my part, I'm just asking questions. 

And to lob your comment back at you, how many bikini tops were lost and the women continued on as if nothing happened? Did most do the arm cover up or hand bra thing? I'm guessing that most observers saw it as an accident and had a laugh. But isn't there a line there too?

~ Passio


----------



## NobodySpecial

the2ofus said:


> Yep
> 
> 
> 
> Why? I think a society can be measured by the courtesy they show to their weakest members. Everyone else should be able to show some understanding. Who are we expecting to be the mature grown ups.


For me, there are 2 things. I don't see anything discourteous about breastfeeding. As I mentioned, what constitutes courtesy can rarely be agreed upon. As such it does not make sense to me to schedule my time, restrict my activities or feed my baby in gross places in order to appease someone else' sense of courtesy.


----------



## LetItHappen

This topic turned into a lot of discussions on things I never said or mentioned. I will address some of these.

1) I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. Seriously.

2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.]

3) No one is asking anyone to feed in "gross places"

4) Whether or not women should be allowed to go topless in pubic is a completely different subject


----------



## SadSamIAm

LetItHappen said:


> This topic turned into a lot of discussions on things I never said or mentioned. I will address some of these.
> 
> 1) I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. Seriously.
> 
> 2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.


A tactful way for you to respect that she came from a family that treated nudity differently than your family?


----------



## Anonymous07

LonelyinLove said:


> There are a lot of natural, God designed activities that are better left off the public palate.
> 
> Let's just install a commode at the end of every church pew row then....I mean it's natural and as God intended. Maybe the next time the couple who are trying to conceive can just go right at it if her temps are right for conception....it is natural and as God intended.
> 
> I used to work L&D, so if you think I'm clueless, I'm not.
> 
> There is a time and a place for everything....and again....courtesy should dictate actions. If you think the older gentleman in the church next to you may be uncomfortable when you whip out your boob, and there is a lovely room with cushioned rockers and a wide-screen display of the service, how about going to the location where you can be comfortable and so can your fellow church goer. It isn't always about the breastfeeder, although many seem to think it is.


Do you eat in public? Yes. So why can't a baby eat in public? 

Do you poop in public? No. Because defecating and eating are very different things. You can't compare the 2. Sex is also very different from eating.


----------



## Maricha75

LetItHappen said:


> This topic turned into a lot of discussions on things I never said or mentioned. I will address some of these.
> 
> 1) I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. Seriously.
> 
> 2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.]
> 
> 3) No one is asking anyone to feed in "gross places"
> 
> 4) Whether or not women should be allowed to go topless in pubic is a completely different subject


So, what are we talking about, here? Did she take her shirt/bra/swimsuit completely off the top? Or did she only uncover one breast, so the baby could eat? Did she let the baby play the "latch on-latch off" game? Or is it simply that she didn't use a receiving blanket/burp cloth/cover up and it made you uncomfortable?


----------



## Anonymous07

LetItHappen said:


> This topic turned into a lot of discussions on things I never said or mentioned. I will address some of these.
> 
> 1) I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. Seriously.
> 
> 2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.]
> 
> 3) No one is asking anyone to feed in "gross places"
> 
> 4) Whether or not women should be allowed to go topless in pubic is a completely different subject


If you truly didn't have a problem with breastfeeding, this post would not exist. 

The best thing you can do for your SIL is be supportive. Let her nurse her baby as she feels comfortable, as your issue with it is not her problem. She is not doing anything to try to make others uncomfortable, she is just trying to feed her baby. If you really don't like seeing it, don't look. It's really that simple.


----------



## antechomai

I have five daughters, two from a second marriage, a relationship that started 15 years ago. These two were wild dressers years ago, yet now, very conservative after having 4 children and were always being very conservative when nursing.
Then again, there is my very conservative daughter(really uptight) who just had a child, and just whips it out. My stepdaughters were really surprised.

I wonder if has to do with a woman's view whether breasts are for attraction of men, then they become modest when nursing, vs. when it's time to feed the baby from the STEM daughter.


----------



## SecondTime'Round

maricha75 said:


> it doesn't bother me regardless. If topless sunbathing is ok, if wearing a tiny scrap of cloth is ok, why is it not ok to show the flesh around the nipple and areola? It certainly wouldn't bother me, and i wouldn't have a problem if my husband and kids saw a woman feeding her baby, no matter how much of the breast was showing around the baby's head. And, no, i cannot say for certain that the op sil was or was not showing her entire breast before god and everyone. What i am saying is that it has been my experience that those who are uncomfortable with it, who would rather the mother hole herself up in another room while everyone else is enjoying a meal or movie or whatever, are *most often exaggerating the facts of what really occurred. Hence my comment that i sincerely doubt she was letting it all hang out. *



exactly.


----------



## Idyit

Are you guys serious?!? This is not the discrete breast feedings most of the women here have described or men have seen. No hyperbole here. OP said she was without a top and further described her as somewhat of a nudist.

In a public park that is not a nude beach it's okay to be topless as long as you're feeding a baby? And in my own home, after offering a bedroom for privacy, it would be impolite (pick your adjective) of me to not wish to see my SIL sitting on my couch topless, because she's feeding a baby.

The responses to OP's clarification clear up what I asked as well. Apparently there is no line. Not in public. Not in his own home. 

I do believe there are lines for propriety. This does not make me uninformed, a prude or insensitive. My career has been in medicine and healthcare both clinically and in industry. I've been in the OR for GYN surgery, breast augmentation, mastectomy, trauma and more. I'm quite comfortable with the human body.

Some of my projects have involved improving delivery, storage, fortifying and security of breast milk, and feeding of the smallest of babies. I'm very informed on breastfeeding.

My wife breastfed all our children and they are now growing up on our small farm. Mating, birthing, milking and feeding of mammals is nothing new. The human animal is a distinct thing.

Breast feeding is the best way to nourish a child. Some do, some don't/can't. Ninety nine percent plus of those who do, do so with a modicum of modesty. The OP described a <1% case and was treated as if he were a witless dullard who had no business even commenting on the matter.

To OP, what you experienced is an exception. It's your home, have a chat with your brother.

~ Passio


----------



## Maricha75

I am totally serious. I honestly think he's exaggerating. Shirt half off sounds more like she had one breast uncovered so the baby could eat. And, from the way he described it, it sounds like the shirt was lifted up on the feeding side, hence the stomach visible. And he expressed that he was uncomfortable that she didn't use a cover up. So, yea, I still stand by my posts. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what his SIL did, at all.


----------



## Idyit

Maricha75 said:


> I am totally serious. I honestly think he's exaggerating. Shirt half off sounds more like she had one breast uncovered so the baby could eat. And, from the way he described it, it sounds like the shirt was lifted up on the feeding side, hence the stomach visible. And he expressed that he was uncomfortable that she didn't use a cover up. So, yea, I still stand by my posts. I see absolutely nothing wrong with what his SIL did, at all.


Ok. It's possible I'm reading OP wrong. But this ---> "_She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal"_ makes me think he's not exaggerating.

Again, is there a line?

~ Passio


----------



## Maricha75

And yet, he said her shirt was "half off".
The line? She is feeding her baby. Who cares? If he gets in a huff over the girls/women in scraps of cloth that supposedly pass as swimsuits, then I can sort of understand his prudish comments. If not, then he needs to look at himself.


----------



## the2ofus

LetItHappen said:


> This topic turned into a lot of discussions on things I never said or mentioned. I will address some of these.
> 
> 1) I don't have a problem with breastfeeding. Seriously.
> 
> 2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.]
> 
> 3) No one is asking anyone to feed in "gross places"
> 
> 4) Whether or not women should be allowed to go topless in pubic is a completely different subject


This time he says he doesn't want to see her topless, last time it was shirt half off, which is it?



NobodySpecial said:


> For me, there are 2 things. I don't see anything discourteous about breastfeeding. As I mentioned, what constitutes courtesy can rarely be agreed upon. As such it does not make sense to me to schedule my time, restrict my activities or feed my baby in gross places in order to appease someone else' sense of courtesy.


When I said showing courtesy to our weakest members I was meaning the helpless babies. 

Also, it was his parents house so unless they had a problem with it she is really not being discourteous by any stretch.


----------



## Thundarr

It's a shame breast feeding is awkward. It's like saying that walking is awkward.


----------



## EnjoliWoman

LetItHappen said:


> ...started carrying things down to the picnic table where my sister in law was nursing my niece, *boob fully out* and everything. d We all ... give my sister in law some time.
> 
> *There was some privacy in that the picnic table had trees around it*, but if you were on our side of the swim area you could definitely see it all. Tonight we were all watching a movie at my parents' and I turned towards the couch and saw that my sister in law was breast feeding again with no cover (though the lights were off). We had previously said that she could use our room if the baby was hungry.
> 
> If someone wants to *breast feed with a cover in public that doesn't really bother me*, what really did it was that *her shirt was more than half way off and you could pretty much see everything, breast, stomach*, whatever.





LetItHappen said:


> 2) I don't want to see my sister-in-law topless with no attempt to cover up somewhat. The biggest component of all of this is just the complete disregard for anyone who doesn't want to see. She came from a family where complete nudity around the household, around family members, was normal, I came from a more modest family in a tradition where the body is beautiful but also certain parts are intimate and are best shared under intimate conditions. There is a tactful way to do this.





Idyit said:


> Are you guys serious?!? OP said she was without a top and further described her as somewhat of a nudist.
> 
> In a public park that is not a nude beach it's okay to be topless as long as you're feeding a baby? And in my own home, after offering a bedroom for privacy, it would be impolite (pick your adjective) of me to not wish to see my SIL sitting on my couch topless, because she's feeding a baby.
> 
> The responses to OP's clarification clear up what I asked as well. Apparently there is no line. Not in public. Not in his own home. *It's his parents home. He offered up his room.*
> 
> Breast feeding is the best way to nourish a child. Some do, some don't/can't. Ninety nine percent plus of those who do, do so with a modicum of modesty. The OP described a <1% case and was treated as if he were a witless dullard who had no business even commenting on the matter.
> 
> To OP, what you experienced is an exception. It's your home, have a chat with your brother. *Again, wasn't his home. Was a public park and his parent's home. It's up to his parents to ask.*
> 
> ~ Passio


Bottom line - she is comfortable with feeding her child. It's still unclear as to whether the top was completely off - it sounds like it was partially off to expose the breast needed. He wasn't even AWARE she was breastfeeding the second time, she was so subtle. He expects her to miss the movie instead of sitting in the dark where he hardly even noticed?

It does sound like she isn't very uptight about it. And her 'whole breast' was exposed, though he didn't say whether or not the nipple was covered by the baby. 

I think this dialog has been very good. I still think society is pretty hung up about bodies. She has a pretty healthy view of hers. 

I just don't see why, when a mature adult notices a mother breastfeeding, even if her breast is momentarily fully exposed, why the other adults can't just ignore it! Avert your eyes and carry on! If children ask what's going on or are seen staring, then by all means explain.

It's the whole mystique around the body that makes it bad, dirty, inappropriate, etc. And all of the perfection shoved in our faces accepting of natural variations in bodies, even our own. I think breastfeeding in public is a positive step in that direction.

Europeans (assuming this is in the US) are SO much more relaxed AND their teen pregnancy and teen sex rates are MUCH lower! It's because nudity isn't such a taboo topic. Chillax, people!


----------



## EnjoliWoman

So this is OK at the lake...









But this isn't?









Got it.


----------



## Idyit

EnjoliWoman said:


> Bottom line - she is comfortable with feeding her child. It's still unclear as to whether the top was completely off - it sounds like it was partially off to expose the breast needed. He wasn't even AWARE she was breastfeeding the second time, she was so subtle. He expects her to miss the movie instead of sitting in the dark where he hardly even noticed?
> 
> It does sound like she isn't very uptight about it. And her 'whole breast' was exposed, though he didn't say whether or not the nipple was covered by the baby.
> 
> I think this dialog has been very good. I still think society is pretty hung up about bodies. She has a pretty healthy view of hers.
> 
> I just don't see why, when a mature adult notices a mother breastfeeding, even if her breast is momentarily fully exposed, why the other adults can't just ignore it! Avert your eyes and carry on! If children ask what's going on or are seen staring, then by all means explain.
> 
> It's the whole mystique around the body that makes it bad, dirty, inappropriate, etc. And all of the perfection shoved in our faces accepting of natural variations in bodies, even our own. I think breastfeeding in public is a positive step in that direction.
> 
> Europeans (assuming this is in the US) are SO much more relaxed AND their teen pregnancy and teen sex rates are MUCH lower! It's because nudity isn't such a taboo topic. Chillax, people!


I am so offended. 

Just kidding. Your response was to my post so it seems you're lumping me in with the mystique burdened uptight people of America. After seeing the human body inside out, upside down and from every angle possible there is no mystique left for me. 

I've raised a question about boundaries or if there is any line that shouldn't be crossed. There hasn't really been any dialog about that to speak of other than grow up and just look away.

Your picture comparison is interesting. Bikini woman is considered okay in her current state. What if her bikini were see through? Would it still be acceptable in most places? Would we also say in this case that if you don't want to see, look away. Likely not. There would be some line of appropriateness that is crossed.

This is the question I'm asking. Is there any line with breast feeding? Or is absolutely everything ok and solely determined by the individual mother?

~ Passio


----------



## Maricha75

And, to reiterate, if my husband saw a woman feeding her baby the way the woman is in the bottom picture EnjoliWoman posted, I would have NO PROBLEM with it. Why? She us feeding her baby. I wouldn't care if she was in a restaurant, at the beach, in the mall, wherever. She is feeding her baby.


ETA: And I showed those pictures to my husband. He didn't think anything of the woman breastfeeding. And in a restaurant setting, he said he would *gasp* look away. Novel approach! And he also agreed that there was much less showing with the breastfeeding than with the bikini... as is generally the case. 

Personally, we would prefer our kids seeing the breastfeeding and ask questions rather than a nearly naked woman in the scraps they call swimsuits.


----------



## Maricha75

Idyit said:


> I am so offended.
> 
> Just kidding. Your response was to my post so it seems you're lumping me in with the mystique burdened uptight people of America. After seeing the human body inside out, upside down and from every angle possible there is no mystique left for me.
> 
> I've raised a question about boundaries or if there is any line that shouldn't be crossed. There hasn't really been any dialog about that to speak of other than grow up and just look away.
> 
> Your picture comparison is interesting. Bikini woman is considered okay in her current state. What if her bikini were see through? Would it still be acceptable in most places? Would we also say in this case that if you don't want to see, look away. Likely not. There would be some line of appropriateness that is crossed.
> 
> This is the question I'm asking. Is there any line with breast feeding? Or is absolutely everything ok and solely determined by the individual mother?
> 
> ~ Passio


Bikini woman is considered OK by MOST people. Some still would prefer one piece suits. 

As for breastfeeding... if she is sitting there, completely naked, I would say yes, that would be a problem for me. But I would leave... we would leave. But the pictures I have seen posted in various places have not shown a mother completely naked, nursing in public. Really, what it appears to be is that too many sexualize breadtfeeding. And this is why people get uptight about women exposing even a sliver of skin while feeding their babies... because they have the audacity to do THAT in public, without covering it up, rather than choosing the acceptable exposure via a bikini. 

Yes, I realize the nursing mother in the picture above is showing more than a sliver of skin. My point is that people get uptight about it if ANY skin is shown when breastfeeding, but they see nothing wrong with MORE showing in a swimsuit. And that is seriously screwed up.


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## samyeagar

Not to mention that a properly latched baby will leave no nipple or areola exposed.


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## Maricha75

samyeagar said:


> Not to mention that a properly latched baby will leave no nipple or areola exposed.


Exactly, Sam. And the only worry then is if baby pulls off as a "game" or because agitated because mom is getting looks and comments directed at her and baby feels it. Or if baby falls asleep nursing and latches off that way. Usually, though, mom is paying attention to those cues and acts accordingly.


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## 2ntnuf

Choose for yourself. I don't care what you do, but bikinis and breastfeeding are apples and oranges.


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## Maricha75

You're right, 2ntnuf. They ARE apples and oranges... or should be. Yet some people see one as acceptable in public settings and the other as unacceptable. Most are fine with bikinis, but get squeamish about breastfeeding. Why? Because of the sexualization of the breast. They won't accept that breasts have a practical purpose: feeding an infant. And, until it becomes commonplace, this cycle will continue.


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## Pablodiablo

I love breasts. I love women of all shapes and sizes. I appreciate the female figure. I notice women all the time. Respectfully of course. I have never seen a feeding in public and thought "boobies!" If you have a hang up then that is yours. A woman shouldn't have to hide or feel guilty. Too bad there aren't more moms doing it. Then the world would be filled with smarter people and we wouldn't have these conversations and we could focus on important issues.


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## EnjoliWoman

I was trying to show that more "boobage" can be shown in a bikini yet it's OK, while less boobage (and only 1, usually) is shown while breastfeeding yet it's somehow more taboo.


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## the2ofus

EnjoliWoman said:


> I was trying to show that more "boobage" can be shown in a bikini yet it's OK, while less boobage (and only 1, usually) is shown while breastfeeding yet it's somehow more taboo.


I think you accomplished that. Seeings how they were at the beach I think it applies to this conversation. A person can say they are conservative but are sitting at the beach with swimsuits around but the woman nursing is inappropriate. People are hung up on it cause it bugs them seeing it as something but sexual or they think the baby suckling is a sexual thing (it's not). 

2ntnuf~When I nursed I primarily looked like the first nursing gal without the cover. When home it was either that or sometimes the other non nursing cover picture.

As for how much is too much. The breast not being used doesn't need to be out When you're in public.

OP~ were you offfended by any of the pictures people put up?


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## GusPolinski

I'm not really sure that the word "ethics" can reasonably be applied to breastfeeding, whether public or otherwise.

That said... public breastfeeding? I'm all for it!


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## Thundarr

Idyit said:


> This is the question I'm asking. Is there any line with breast feeding? Or is absolutely everything ok and solely determined by the individual mother?
> 
> ~ Passio


My opinion is that boobs should not be taboo and more specifically breast feeding even less taboo. For example anywhere a man is fine to walk around shirtless then why not women too *if they want to*? We've made boobs a taboo thing by covering them up. So in my opinion women should be able to show boobs more than men because breastfeeding is a biological exception for places with no-shirt/no-shoes/no-service policies.

I don't think too many agree with my extreme opinion on the topic :surprise:


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## Anonymous07

Maricha75 said:


> You're right, 2ntnuf. They ARE apples and oranges... or should be. Yet some people see one as acceptable in public settings and the other as unacceptable. Most are fine with bikinis, but get squeamish about breastfeeding. Why? Because of the sexualization of the breast. They won't accept that breasts have a practical purpose: feeding an infant. And, until it becomes commonplace, this cycle will continue.


I've had a few dirty looks from people while nursing my son in public. One of those times I was at the mall, sitting near a Victoria's Secret shop nursing my son while talking to another mom friend. The almost nude pictures plastered all over the windows were okay, but my nursing was seen as something "wrong" as by the dirty looks. My friend gave them an evil eye back, which just made me laugh.


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## NotEasy

EnjoliWoman said:


> Well barf is stomach acid, bile and consumed food/drink. Breast milk isn't smelly unless it has spoiled??? It only can spread HIV or Hepatitis to a baby who drinks it when the mother has it and that is extremely rare so spreading disease is an uninformed comment, tho I'm glad to see you generally support it.
> 
> I also agree being courteous so as to not make others uncomfortable is a social nicety but again, I've yet to see a nursing mother whip out a breast, with the entire breast in full view. EVERY nursing mother I've seen in public HAS been courteous.
> 
> And your church makes mothers go to another room to nurse? Egads. Shouldn't they be just the group to support a mother using her body as 'GOD' intended it? Discreetly? Why should she miss the sermon because baby's hunger strikes during service? Because men won't be able to control their gaze at the gorgeous globes in the hopes of getting a peek of nipple?
> 
> The rest of the public should be just as discreet, encouraging and responsible as the BF mother. Don't stare or point. Just let them be and ignore.


Our church has a cry room, not a nursing room. Noisy babies and children are commonly taken there. Our main sound system can't compete with crying. The room is also used by some nursing mothers, but some stay in the main part of the church. 
Our cry room has a good sound system with separate volume control and a large sound proof window. So those inside can follow the service. We even fitted an 'ambient' mic on the main hall, so the cry room can hear our bad singing.
We don't have any rule for breastfeeding. If anyone tried to hide or move nursing mothers I would be against it. Better to start nursing quickly than to move baby and stuff to the cry room, by which time the baby is crying.
Breastfeeding has always been discrete. I have trouble remembering how many times I have seen BF in church. I do recall once standing up to sing, wondering why the woman in front of us didn't stand and then realising she was already BF without me seeing. Anyone who is upset by BF during the service is obviously not concentrating on the service.


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## larry.gray

EnjoliWoman said:


> I've never seen exposed nipple, even prior to latching on and after - mothers tend to use the baby to block the view while discreetly pulling down (or up) a garment.


Perhaps it is because I'm more inclined to look, but I've seen just that many times. 

Not that I mind >


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## unbelievable

I've been all over the world and I think America is about the only place people get excited or offended at seeing a baby eating. Babies have been feeding at human breasts for over 200,000 years and the sun still rises.


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## larry.gray

Maricha75 said:


> Also, regarding the amount if time between feedings...
> 
> Ok, generally, a formula fed baby can go 3-5 hours between bottles, averaging at 4 hours, of course. Breastfed babies, it is usually 2-3 hours. The problem, though, is that many calculate that from the end of one feeding to the beginning of the next. That isn't correct. If is from the beginning of the first to the beginning of the second. So, if the bsby actually nurses fir an hour, and is hungry an hour after that is over, that is actually 2 hours between feedings. And if going through a growth spurt and cluster feeding... forget timing it!


:iagree:

All of our kids were like that. You can't count on any amount of time until the next feeding. It could be hours, or it could be a few minutes.


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## NotEasy

unbelievable said:


> I've been all over the world and I think America is about the only place people get excited or offended at seeing a baby eating. Babies have been feeding at human breasts for over 200,000 years and the sun still rises.


No Australia too. And I don't know why some people get so upset.


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## Shoto1984

Another one of life's intractable problems solved right here on TAM


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## ExiledBayStater

When I was a kid my mom explained what she was doing while she nursed my newborn sibling right in front of me. This was in the early 90s. At the time, it didn't enter my mind that breasts were somehow indecent or forbidden, I just knew women usually kept them covered. My aunts nursed my cousins in front of me, and I was pushing my teenage years then. No big deal. 

I think new parents are tired enough as it is. I can't imagine a bystander saying to your sister-in-law, "Stop nursing in my park!" In your parents house, I do believe your parents have the right to make the call. Which, by doing and saying nothing, they did.


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## jld

Just for laughs . . .

Hilarious Comic Has The Perfect Response To People Who Try To Shame Breastfeeding Moms


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