# Question for those that waited until marriage for sex



## britney5 (Nov 20, 2011)

Do you feel that waiting has made things special and enchanced the marriage? Or do you regret it?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

britney5 said:


> Do you feel that waiting has made things special and enchanced the marriage? Or do you regret it?


I AM happy that me & my husband waited to have intercourse on our wedding night ..... even though we had so much HELL with my hymen... it is near laughable looking back, I even got pregnant before he fully penetrated me. Crazy story we have! We even joked our 1st son was like an immaculate conception. 

But I DO regret some of the "sexual repressive" teachings that allowed my mind to feel dirty about what we DID enjoy before marraige.... I do not regret any of that, and would do it all over again in a heart beat. 

Knowing that this person saved themselves "just for you" ...there is something profoundly *SACRED* about that , there is a bonding there that can't be put into words...just knowing that no other woman has touched him, caressed him, or felt him inside of her...... and his knowing this of me also....how can this not "hold us" during the harder times .... ...how can we trample that ?? 

I mean look at the devestation over infidelity - it near kills people...why is this? Why is SEX held up so damn high? .....and why is it taken so lighty when dating but somehow when married .... it is a different story, going from "casual" to " the lifeblood " of the marriage - worthy of Divorce.... .

I feel it is....Because it is the deepest expression of KNOWING another (if you allow yourself to love with all of your senses & vulnerabilities that is)..... I have always looked upon it as Sacred personally .... if I gave that to a man, he damn well better "be mine" ... cause I am going to want to possess every part of him, and feel he belongs to me. 

That is just how I look at sex..... full of emotion, meaning, power, pleasure, LIFE itself, Joy inexpressable , and Love abounding.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

delup said:


> Personally, I waited until after I got married and wife became pregnant before I had to endure celibacy. Judging by this forum, it seems doing it this way round is more fashionable these days.


I just want to say here, I feel this is pathetically WRONG and because of this, I feel strongly that a man & a woman who desires to "wait " should still have some pleasurable experimentation before marriage. I did a long post on what I will teach my daughter about sex because it is NEVER NEVER NEVER OK for women to do this to her husband. My own daughter would catch hell from me if she did. 

Makes my temperture rise just reading stories like this, and I can not deny that men have a right to worry when marrying a virgin. My husband knew I loved those orgasms years before we married -even though we waited for intercourse itself.

Read my point #10 here >> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

I didn't wait; my wife did. I actually wish I had waited, but a few years before I met my wife I was with some other girls. She doesn't regret waiting and I'm very glad that she did. I have spoken to lots of people who were virgins at marriage and I've never heard anything that convinced me that this was a bad idea. The only time problems come is when they have an issue that they are not prepared to work on--which is the case whether you were a virgin or not. 

As delup said, people can be wild and crazy sexually until after marriage, so even the argument that "you have to know that you're compatible/sexual/interested" is not valid.

I think virginity until marriage is a good thing. I've never heard a convincing argument otherwise.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MSP said:


> The only time problems come is when they have an issue that they are not prepared to work on--which is the case whether you were a virgin or not.


Being a virgin at marriage makes for many more issues you`re unprepared to work on by the very definition of the concept.

It`s unavoidable.

Promising fidelity for life in a situation you have no experience with is a promise made in vain.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm glad we waited. I'm glad I respected her culture and values and allowed that to be a part of her. I'm glad it was my wife I learned with. I'm glad that I did not have sex with my first girlfriend so that when she became pregnant, we knew for sure what had happened and I was able to move on and look for something better. No regrets at all from me.

I find irony in statements by those who did not wait about what problems those who wait will have, especially in that they claim the couple are unprepared somehow because of a lack of experience, but these people are speaking without the experience of having waited.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

My wife and I waited. We didn't wait for religious reasons, though she was raised Catholic and I Baptist. I definitely regret waiting. We have had so many hangups and issues regarding sex that it has taken the 2.5 years we've been married to get past the religious guilt and teachings to get to where we actually really enjoy sex for the intimate act that it is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

tacoma said:


> Promising fidelity for life in a situation you have no experience with is a promise made in vain.


Oh, c'mon. Life throws twists and turns at people all the time that they've never previously experienced or even imagined experiencing. The promise of marriage is to withstand these difficulties together. 

Statistics do not support you, either. If "practice" is really beneficial, then why are people who live together before marriage more likely to divorce? 



Davelli0331 said:


> We didn't wait for religious reasons . . . it has taken the 2.5 years we've been married to get past the religious guilt


Hmm. 

That's not an issue with waiting. That's an issue with what you were taught, or how you interpreted the teaching.


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## ocotillo (Oct 17, 2011)

britney5 said:


> Do you feel that waiting has made things special and enchanced the marriage? Or do you regret it?


Neither.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MSP said:


> Statistics do not support you, either. If "practice" is really beneficial, then why are people who live together before marriage more likely to divorce?


I`m unsure.

Why is it that marriages committed to before the age of twenty five are more likely to fail?

Lack of life experience perhaps.

I do know my life has been far easier and happier due to the fact that I waited until I was mature enough to understand what commitment was before promising fidelity to a woman and becoming a father.

Not to mention that sexuality is far too important for me to wager my life on a guess.

As the old adage goes "If you wouldn`t buy a car without a test drive why would you enter a marriage without one?"

This forum is riddled with distraught marriages between those who lacked life experience and married too young.

The odds for success increase the longer you wait for marriage.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

MSP said:


> Oh, c'mon. Life throws twists and turns at people all the time that they've never previously experienced or even imagined experiencing. The promise of marriage is to withstand these difficulties together.


You do know this statement is a fallacy yes?


If experience and knowledge make no difference because "****`s gonna happen anyway" why bother getting an education?
Why bother preparing yourself for a career?
Why bother doing anything that could insure a happier problem free lifestyle?

People don`t live that way in most aspects of their life, I just find it sadly humorous that people will follow this line of thought with the biggest decision in their lives.

Unreal to me I suppose.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

MSP said:


> Hmm.
> 
> That's not an issue with waiting. That's an issue with what you were taught, or how you interpreted the teaching.


Those things are not mutually exclusive. It's taken sexual experiences with each other to realize how wrong those teachings were. Had we not waited, we likely would have come to these conclusions sooner and realized earlier on how poorly our respective "religious experiences" had prepared us for being sexual beings with one another. I would gladly trade those beliefs for 2.5 years of better sex, especially since I don't prescribe to them any more any way. 

As to interpretation, I can't think of how many different ways "premarital sex is a sin" can be interpreted, but I don't care or want to derail this thread on to religion.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I didn't wait. No one should wait. Maybe wait for the right person, but not until marriage. No arguments needed. MOST couples who wait until marriage for ANY sex end up having issues with sex.


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

tacoma said:


> I`m unsure.
> 
> Why is it that marriages committed to before the age of twenty five are more likely to fail?
> 
> Lack of life experience perhaps.


Perhaps. Or maybe because the prefrontal cortex is still developing and people are more prone to making emotional decisions rather than rational ones. However, if divorce was not so easy the vast majority of these married-young issues would iron themselves out. One of the biggest factors for lasting happiness in marriage is a determination to stay together.



tacoma said:


> This forum is riddled with distraught marriages between those who lacked life experience and married too young.
> 
> The odds for success increase the longer you wait for marriage.


This forum is riddled with people who are having, or have had, marriage problems, period. 

The odds for success (success, as in not divorcing) do increase the longer you wait, up to a certain age. But women who wait longer than their twenties have far more difficulty in finding a spouse. And women with multiple sex partners have a tough time getting married and staying married compared to those who have had none, or few, sexual partners prior to marriage. 



tacoma said:


> If experience and knowledge make no difference because "****`s gonna happen anyway" why bother getting an education?
> Why bother preparing yourself for a career?
> Why bother doing anything that could insure a happier problem free lifestyle.


Context is important. I never said that people should avoid all knowledge. That's silly. Read, ask questions, talk to your love-interest. If one person says that they're looking forward to sex in multiple positions every day and the other one says that they don't want to have sex other than just for procreation and then only through a hole in the sheet, then you have time to resolve it one way or another before marriage. Enough knowledge can be gained without direct experience. Not as much, for sure, but the rest can be worked out afterwards. 

I said that we can't prepare for everything life throws at us and marriages that are successful are the ones that succeed despite problems, not because they've never had problems. If everything is great in someone's marriage other than something in the sex department, a willingness to work at it will probably ensure success. I'm not necessarily talking about health problems here, by the way. Pre-existing health problems should be discussed prior to marriage.

And again, this is not just my opinion. Statistics back up the higher divorce rate among sexually-experienced couples.



Davelli0331 said:


> Those things are not mutually exclusive. It's taken sexual experiences with each other to realize how wrong those teachings were. Had we not waited, we likely would have come to these conclusions sooner and realized earlier on how poorly our respective "religious experiences" had prepared us for being sexual beings with one another. I would gladly trade those beliefs for 2.5 years of better sex, especially since I don't prescribe to them any more any way.
> 
> As to interpretation, I can't think of how many different ways "premarital sex is a sin" can be interpreted, but I don't care or want to derail this thread on to religion.


How does the teaching of premarital sex being sinful impede someone who is married? You said that it took you 2.5 years of married sex to get over the guilt. Why would you be guilty if you were married? Sorry, but you've lost me there. I'm not having a go. I really don't get what you're saying.


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I didn't wait. No one should wait. Maybe wait for the right person, but not until marriage. No arguments needed. MOST couples who wait until marriage for ANY sex end up having issues with sex.


I think this is full of assumptions, and we need to be careful to identify such assumptions. First, I do think an argument is needed because I don't know of any studies showing that most couples who wait until marriage have issues with sex. In fact, I'm aware of studies that show something very different. I'd welcome it if someone could produce the study suggesting that most couple who wait have problems if such a study exists, though.

Second, saying that "no one should wait" assumes an awful lot. I think there are good reasons for people to wait, and they vary from person to person. If you ask someone to compromise something that helps to give them their cultural or moral identity, I think it may introduce many more problems than it may solve. I think we have to take the person as a whole and consider such things as a part of their makeup.

This forum is an affinity group and not a statistical sampling, but from this affinity group, we can look and see that having sex before marriage did not prevent sexual problems in many couples. We also have examples (such as me) where we have no sexual issues even though we did wait. All I can say is that there is evidence here for whatever a person wants to see. The studies I am aware of do not support the assumption that abstaining until married causes problems in higher percentages than those who did not wait, and in fact suggests something very different to be true.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I'm really glad I waited. There's a ton of positives, here's my take on it:

1. No worrying about STD's/pregnancy

2. No questioning/jealousy about past partners

3. No past lovers to have to compare to. For example, if my wife didn't like bending her legs behind her head and that was my favorite thing about Jill.

4. Made sure that my wife and I weren't just in it for the sex. It put the emphasis on the strongest part of our relationship and not the weakest. We wouldn't wake up 2 years later after the sex dulled down and realize we didn't enjoy each other's company.

5. Allowed us to feel positive about the sex we did have after marriage. This is more of a religious thing but we felt good about God blessing our sex, there was no guilt involved in it (this is specific to one's faith and may not apply to everyone).

6. I feel like sex is such a powerful thing that it shouldn't be done lightly. Waiting till you are married ensures that both people are really committed before you open yourself up to that kind of closeness.

Probably the biggest thing I heard about it was something like, "What if you weren't sexually compatible??" Well we're both getting married, so we're both going to make it work. I think there's a harmful belief in today's society that you have to find "the one". That you either are or aren't fit to be married to someone. The truth is if two people are committed to each other they will make it work no matter what. Sexual compatibility is something that can be resolved just like any other relationship problem.

The problem I see with telling people to wait today is that they do it the opposite of what they should. They make sex out to be bad, premarital sex out to be dangerous, and make celibacy an obligation. All that does is make premarital sex more enticing, makes people think of sex as "dirty", and then when they go off and do it (as 90+% will), they feel guilty their entire life.

How I talk to young people about it, and how I will speak to my children about it, is that sex is a wonderful thing. I will let them know that if they choose to have sex I will still love them and they are still loved by God. But I will also let them know that waiting was really awesome and a one of a kind experience. That way if they end up doing it, they won't feel guilty for the rest of their life, and it kind of makes waiting this exciting adventure instead of some boring traditional moral obligation.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

Not sure if your talking about waiting until actually married, or simply waiting for the one you will eventually marry. As in never had sex except with your future h/w. Not sure it matters much except for potential religious reasons.

But as far as waiting and he/she is the only one? I think it can make it MUCH more special. If both involved share the other being the first.

For myself, my wife is the only I've ever been with. She was with more. To varying degrees. (depends on what some consider sex, plenty of problems with that) It has caused us some problems over the years. Some due to my own insecurities Im sure. 

To be honest, at times I have regretted waiting. Mostly when it doesnt really feel like my wife truly appreciates her being the only one. 

So to answer your question in a round about, rambling way; it depends. :scratchhead:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't think anyone should wait. Nothing would ever change my mind on that.

You have to know someone sexual side before signing a marriage license.

My friends who waited (from my Christian school) are all divorced now. Many of them because of sexual issues.

I'm glad I didn't wait. Nothing would suck more than a marriage with bad sex.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I don't think anyone should wait. Nothing would ever change my mind on that.
> 
> You have to know someone sexual side before signing a marriage license.
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. I just want to point out that there are still a lot of cultures today that socially practice waiting till marriage. Most of them have divorce rates much lower than that of western cultures. The idea that there is this standard of sexual compatibility that must be met is IMO a harmful paradigm.

If it is to be believed, if something would happen to your spouse that would change their sexual appetite or ability, the marriage would not have the foundation to sustain itself. What if your husband was in an accident and his penis burned off? What if he had prostate cancer and had difficulties having sex? What if you had a medical problem and sex became painful for you? What would you personally do? Divorce? Or work with your spouse to a mutually agreeable solution?

Assuming the celibacy was not out of some sense of obligation, any form of sexual incompatibility with a partner would be resolved in a similar fashion as to the dilemmas I proposed above. Sex is an important part of marriage, but it is not the only important part.

And as for anecdotal evidence, of the couples I know that waited, they have the most long-term fulfilling sex lives of any married couples I know. I think there was a study done on this but I can't find it. The truth is, if two people desire each other sexually but have the patience and care to wait for the other, that's a great building block for true intimacy and good sex.

I'm removing from my opinion people who wait out of an intense feeling of guilt or obligation, as well as people who find it easy to wait because they have no sex drive. I know neither was the case for me, me and my wife wanted each other bad, and I waited because I believed it was the best thing for us, not because of guilt or obligation. That's true of all of the couples I personally know who waited.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Britney,
If you can be each others first - sure that makes it special. If you can wait - maybe even more special. That said, you don't have to have intercourse to know how "attracted" you are to him and he is to you. AND you should fool around enough to learn how to talk to each other about what you like and don't like. Because if you can't do that, the sexual part of marriage may end up being very unhappy for one or both of you. 





britney5 said:


> Do you feel that waiting has made things special and enchanced the marriage? Or do you regret it?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Omg. I hate the whole "What if" scenerios.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I don't think anyone should wait. Nothing would ever change my mind on that.
> 
> You have to know someone sexual side before signing a marriage license.
> 
> ...


I guess I just dont get how the sex could be that bad, that it would make me want to not be married anymore. Within reason of course.

I think you could find out enough from a future spouse if they say are the type that would never go down on him/her because "its gross" etc.

Now just plain not having enough sex/no sex? Banging a ton before marriage is no guarantee of that.

Not trying to be a jerk and tell you how to think, I just dont get the whole try before you buy thing, like your trying on shoes, or checking out a bunch of different TVs at the store. 

Not saying thats what you equate it to, I guess I just get that feeling from some people with the whole car test drive analogy.


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

Where in the Bible does it say premarital sex is a sin?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

COguy said:


> I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. I just want to point out that there are still a lot of cultures today that socially practice waiting till marriage. Most of them have divorce rates much lower thanthat of western cultures.


But isn't that because divorce is more shameful and therefore less common in those non western cultures you are referring to?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

Unhappy2011 said:


> Where in the Bible does it say premarital sex is a sin?


In the Old Testament if you had sex with someone to whom you were not married, the law was that you were supposed to get married. If you had sex with someone while you were single and they were married or engaged then the result was that you were put to death. 

The New Testament talks about it several times. Here are a few examples that come to mind (non-married sex is referred to as 'fornication'):

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor *********, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galations 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness. . . of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3,5 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints . . . For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Unhappy2011 said:


> But isn't that because divorce is more shameful and therefore less common in those non western cultures you are referring to?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes I'm sure that's part of it, but there are also plenty of happily married couples as well. My point is that the concept that you need to have sex before you are married to be happily married is not backed by hundreds of years of practice.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

COguy said:


> Yes I'm sure that's part of it, but there are also plenty of happily married couples as well. My point is that the concept that you need to have sex before you are married to be happily married is not backed by hundreds of years of practice.


Neither is the concept that "saving yourself" creates happy marriages.

This study and this study (scroll to the bottom), one of which was conducted by the CDC and both of which were done independently of the other, indicate that roughly 95-96% of Americans engage in premarital sex. If such a vast majority of Americans engage in premarital sex, yet the divorce rate stands at 50%, then it would be quite an illogical stretch to draw a statistical correlation between premarital sex and divorce. And I'm talking about any kind of correlation, whether it be that premarital sex hinders or enhances a marriage.


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## britney5 (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for the responses so far. Reason I posted is that I waited until I was married before having sex with current partner for religious reasons and I regret it. Didn't know if I was the only one in this position or not.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

britney5 said:


> Thanks for the responses so far. Reason I posted is that I waited until I was married before having sex with current partner for religious reasons and I regret it. Didn't know if I was the only one in this position or not.


Why do you regret it?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I think that the prohibition of sex before marriage came from the days of unreliable or no effective birth control. Women's virginity was closely guarded to insure that they did not get pregnant before marriage, and to insure that a man was not raising someone else's child.

I do believe that people jump into bed too quickly these days. In my view sex should be reserved for relationships that have promise to become long lasting. When you have had too many sexual partners, your current partner wonders what others were like, may be jealous and ask for details that he/she will regret hearing.

Sex is intended to bond us to our partner. If we throw it away on everyone we date, it may no longer reach our deepest emotions.

However, if we wait with someone we want to marry, we miss out on a crucial part of what they are like. Are there any red flags in their attitude toward sex? Are they selfish lovers? Do they think that sex is somehow "dirty"? Are they healing from sexual abuse, and will we be able to deal with that?


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

You should at least know what the hell your partner's genitals look like before marriage, right? Well, there's a lady here in another thread who was celibate before marriage and discovered after marriage that she is COMPLETELY REPULSED by uncircumcised penises. Guess which her husband's penis is...

And for the arguments, "Well, you could do oral/hands before and get a feel for each other's sexuality without intercourse..." then what is the difference? Somehow one girl is getting penis in her mouth or her vagina licked every weekend from her boyfriend remaining celibate while another girl got a penis in her vagina once and she failed to "save" herself for her husband... All of these things are completely irrational to me. I'm sorry... The Earth is round now.

I completely agree with that_girl and the like.

Testing the car before you buy may not prevent divorce, but IT OBVIOUSLY WILL prevent divorce or perpetual married unhappiness due to sexual incompatibility (see uncircumcised penis problem thread). If divorce still occurs, it will be due to other reasons, i.e. infidelity, finances, drugs, parenting issues. At least testing the car before you buy it eliminates one issue, sexual compatibility. It's BASIC troubleshooting here. Why would we exercise rational process when trying to figure out why Windows XP won't boot up correctly but when it comes to marriage, "Who knows? Make it special!!!" Sorry.

It gets old reading about people who cry their struggles here in this subforum about their selfish spouses who won't do anything sexual for them, and in some of these you find out their partner was always like that or that they were celibate before marriage. There are MANY things you should learn about your partner beforehand. Who they are sexually shouldn't be ignored because of the Hebrew writings of an old book or because of superstition, IMO.

I tested my car before I bought it, and it didn't make it divorce proof, sadly. My wife and I have come close to divorce during a time that we had a PARENTING DISPUTE with my son that resulted in a resentment spiral... However, we have never had a SEXUAL DISPUTE. Why add ignorance of things you CAN know beforehand to the ignorance of things you CAN'T? I respect everyone else's opinion on this, but for the sake of discussion these are my at-a-glance reasons why it isn't smart. I'm sure I could come up with a million more arguments the more I think about it. 

I enjoyed my wife before marriage, and I enjoy the hell out of her after marriage too. I knew I was okay with my wife's vagina and all its functions before I signed the dotted line... There may have still been some surprises in our marriage, but none that I could have avoided. At least I got those taken care of.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, virginity for marriage is one extreme. Promiscuity is the other. Moderation is key. Too much testing, and no car will seem special anymore. Not enough testing, and you signed for life on a car without knowing anything about cars at all!


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Threetimesalady said:


> Would having sex before marriage have changed this?....What were your reasons for this regret?....I believe two people who are getting married should experiment enough with each other that they know who and what they are before marriage....I mean seeing I was inhibited at that time I was a prude...Never went after his penis...Made him suffer, but I was stupid...He had me naked....I loved all that he did...Knew I was not frigid and loved all about sex that I knew...Yet, I needed the growth within to learn of the joys of the male penis...Hate to tell you, but many women do not like the male penis...They find that sex is a messy thing...Not clean like they expected...Thus they become one of the wives that do it because they have to do it....You know a once a month job for the gipper....
> 
> Now you see why I stay out of the younger folks threads...I sure won't make friends...Take care....


Why do you say that about your own post? Tell us more! lol

Great insight! Women should take notes from you here!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> Sex is intended to bond us to our partner. If we throw it away on everyone we date, it may no longer reach our deepest emotions.


In my experience, having sex doesn't mean "throwing it away". Every person brings something different out in us and affects us differently, so sex with one person isn't the same as with another. 

The kind of bond I have developed with my SO is completely different and much deeper than previous experiences - that is one way that I know we are good for each other. Past experiences don't come close, but I would not have known that had I not had sex with my SO. And I know for sure I would not have developed this kind of bond with any of the other men I have had relationships and sex with. I hate to think of having married anyone without knowing that THIS kind of sexual and emotional intimacy was possible, and without having this kind of intimacy with him. THIS sexual relationship has reached my deepest emotions; the others DID NOT. I would have missed out terribly if I'd married any of my other partners!


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I wasn't "throwing it away".
I was finely honing "it"


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Your cone was honed!


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## Unhappy2011 (Dec 28, 2011)

COguy said:


> Yes I'm sure that's part of it, but there are also plenty of happily married couples as well. My point is that the concept that you need to have sex before you are married to be happily married is not backed by hundreds of years of practice.


"Neither is the concept that "saving yourself" creates happy marriages."

Agreed with the poster who responded.

I would say there is no right or wrong, each person and couple has to figure it out for themselves.


Personally I would not get married with out being sexually intimate first.

However I do feel that couples should wait at least until they screened each other out for compatability, chemistry and shared long term goals before having sex. Sex has a way of bonding people who perhaps are not the best matches for each other.

Also....I would not look at the past hundreds or thousands of years of tradition as being relevant to modern times.

The world was completely different then.


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## Pandakiss (Oct 29, 2010)

sorry you feel that way, britney. i think we all wonder or feel what would be.. or what if..

my husband and i didnt wait until marriage. i was...[ and sometimes still am] too rebelious, and if i have felt caged or like i was being fit into this mold of "we do things this way...we do things that way"

weather or not it was religon, or just the way someone thought, or what our parents thought we should do.

we lived together, had a baby, didnt marry until we had our second apt and maybe 7/8 years after we started dating. although we didnt wait until marriage, there was no one else.

i do agree, life is already hard enough with leaving singledom to coupledom, and all kinds of resentments, and triggers, and petty actions come into play.

that said...we were young. when high school, and such, i didnt like guys who were already into the double digits.

but now after 30...dosent really matter what your number is. i think some of us have those 1 or 2 in high school, that we really liked, or almost went all the way with..or wondered about what would have happened if events went differently..to have had different friends.

the choices we make in life arent always easy, or easy to live with. you cant change the past, but you can make the future better.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

It's funny too...I didn't really date in HS. I didn't lose my virginity until my early 20s with a guy I had been dating for almost a year 

My friend brags that she waited until marriage. She married at 18. WOW! Big wait. LOL I waited til early 20s and dated a lot between 17 and then. No sex. I lost my virginity to a guy I was very serious about...we dated for a total of 3 years. After him, I dated other people but didn't have sex for a year...until I met my daughter's father. 

I'm no slvt. But...I would NEVER sign a contract without testing the goods. Personality only goes so far.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

The telephone was not backed by thousands of years of practice. Don't use your phone people.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Interlocutor said:


> The telephone was not backed by thousands of years of practice. Don't use your phone people.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

I've said this before in another thread, but I'll say it again. It doesn't matter if your spouse was your first, it only matters that he/she is your last.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

that_girl said:


> I don't think anyone should wait. Nothing would ever change my mind on that.
> 
> You have to know someone sexual side before signing a marriage license.
> 
> ...


I'm not at all opposed to premarital sex. However, intercourse is not necessary to 'know someone's sexual side'. I would argue that there are many couples who have had intercourse before marriage but still really don't understand each other's sexual sides before (and perhaps after) they get married. Many who don't have intercourse before marriage have done everything else (often in more imaginative ways than those couples who just have boring sex and do little else). Many virgins also have shared their sexual attitudes much more extensively than their more experienced counterparts.

You learn each other's sexual side by experimenting with sex acts together (intercourse is only one aspect), talking about your attitudes toward sex, understanding each other's sexual histories, etc.

I would not choose to remain a virgin if i were to do it again, nor would I look for one to marry. Just saying that I don't agree with the rationale that you need to have sexual intercourse to understand your partner's sexuality.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

As a member of many GM-based auto forums, many of us always observe a phenomenon that occurs when people try to advise what car/engine/etc. is best: Brand Loyalty

You have the extreme GM guys that will trash Ford, and vice versa.

You have the tempered GM guys that will give credit to Ford but still maintain that their GM is better, and vice versa.

However, the GM guy still owns a GM, and vice versa for the Ford guy. 

Brand loyalty injects heavy bias into this sort of discussion, and the BEST advice always comes from the GM guy that bought a Ford or the Ford guy that bought a GM, or the guys that own both, or the guys that regret their purchase.

The same thing can happen here. Of course the majority of the people that waited for marriage are going to uphold waiting for marriage. They're heavily biased. The same applies with those that maintain NOT waiting for marriage. Those are their "brands."

However,

Here's the litmus test. 

How many people say, "I waited for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I would have experimented with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision" -vs- "I didn't wait for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I wouldn't have done anything with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision"?

Would we even get one person to claim the latter?


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

Threetimesalady said:


> Hi Interlocutor and thanks for your kind words...I have my own thread, but every once in a while get bold and venture into the world of youth...It is on Long Term Marriages....I never knew how to find if I got answers to emails here so stayed in my place of security...That being one thread...The url. on this is:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...h-do-we-part-my-love-then-grab-me-you-go.html
> 
> Again thanks for your kind thoughts...You see all this comes from being both older and young at the same time....One more thing..I plan on only posting here at this site....and along the way filling that thread with many thoughts and actions of life and a wonderful marriage...Take care....


I will follow everything you post. Once in a while the wisdom of a rare woman temporarily brings me back from misogyny. What a lucky husband you must have. 

Sadly, today's modern dysfunctional woman wouldn't even understand what you write, so distant it would be from their self-concept... I hope some do and wake the **** up.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Interlocutor said:


> How many people say, "I waited for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I would have experimented with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision" -vs- "I didn't wait for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I wouldn't have done anything with my spouse before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision"?
> 
> Would we even get one person to claim the latter?


I know an a$$load of people in that latter bucket. One of my mentors was telling me about all the baggage him and his wife were dealing with from past relationships. How he hated thinking about her comparing him to past lovers and thinking about her past experiences with other guys. He was really envious of those of us that were waiting.

I'm not trying to make it into this really big deal, because honestly I think there are more important things to worry about in life and relationships. I just saw merit in it in my life, and I think it was worth the effort and if I could do it over again I certainly would. I also reject this notion that it's unhealthy to marry someone without screwing them first. As someone else said, there's other ways to determine sexual compatibility besides having sex, and in the grand scheme of things it is a small part of marriage. I'd much rather be married to someone who shares my views of how to raise a family and how we spend time together then what sexual positions she likes or the "fit" of her vagina. You can teach someone how to f*ck, you can't teach someone commitment.


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

COguy said:


> I know an a$$load of people in that latter bucket. One of my mentors was telling me about all the baggage him and his wife were dealing with from past relationships. How he hated thinking about her comparing him to past lovers and thinking about her past experiences with other guys. He was really envious of those of us that were waiting.
> 
> I'm not trying to make it into this really big deal, because honestly I think there are more important things to worry about in life and relationships. I just saw merit in it in my life, and I think it was worth the effort and if I could do it over again I certainly would. I also reject this notion that it's unhealthy to marry someone without screwing them first. As someone else said, there's other ways to determine sexual compatibility besides having sex, and in the grand scheme of things it is a small part of marriage. I'd much rather be married to someone who shares my views of how to raise a family and how we spend time together then what sexual positions she likes or the "fit" of her vagina. You can teach someone how to f*ck, you can't teach someone commitment.


I used past lovers to figure out what I liked and didn't like. I wouldn't have known otherwise, speaking for myself. 

I, honestly, have never met anyone that regretted sleeping with their spouse before marrying him/her because it misled their decision to marry. That's the latter bucket. Your mentor's problem doesn't count as someone in the latter bucket. I asked if anyone has ever thought:

"I didn't wait for marriage, and I regret it. I wish I wouldn't have done anything with *my spouse* before marrying him/her. It would have helped me make a better decision"

Again, find me someone who has believed that.

And sex is NOT a small part in the scheme of things. It's one of the most important important reasons I got married, and since my wife and I are still able to pre-elderly age, it's the biggest perk of my marriage today. 

You don't have to have premarital sex to marry successfully, but doing do so eliminates ONE, avoidable quality that you can determine whether your future spouse has/hasn't.

I still don't understand the reasoning that since there are so many qualities you CAN'T know in advance, we must then downplay those we CAN. Logically, you determine as many of those that you CAN because you might find something sexually you DON'T like and save yourself the trouble... And NO, you cannot teach some people how to ****... Some people will NEVER get it. They are too selfish to conceive of pleasing someone else. Need proof? I can direct you to threads here with spouses who have been unable to teach their spouses to do anything because their spouses refuse to please anyone but themselves. In SOME of these cases, there was no premarital sex, an experience they wish they had before signing the dotted line. Is the lady who hates uncircumcised penises going to teach her husband to be circumcised? There are things you can't teach but can find out through premarital sex.

It's not a big deal, and of course I can appreciate your point of view too... But what you posted does not qualify as someone in the latter bucket. You misinterpreted past lovers in there. I mentioned the present spouse in the hypothetical scenario. You have yet to find me one. 

I'd rather be married to someone that shares my family views AND sexual philosophy than to someone that only shares my family views, but that's just me... And it felt so good knowing all of this in advance... To look at my future wife next to me at the altar and know so many great things, not all things, but all the things I COULD know in advance, imparting great security in KNOWLEDGE instead of faith. I'm not trying to convince you, just having friendly discussion.

Again, barring fictitious anecdote, I don't think you'll find anyone in the latter bucket, but I can find tons in the former... And that's not brand loyalty or what "I" did/(metaphorically bought). It's the regret of others speaking, a consumer report if you will.


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## Thewife (Sep 3, 2007)

I waited H was my 1 and only sexual partner for 13 over years now. We don't have any major sexual problems.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

MSP said:


> How does the teaching of premarital sex being sinful impede someone who is married? You said that it took you 2.5 years of married sex to get over the guilt. Why would you be guilty if you were married? Sorry, but you've lost me there. I'm not having a go. I really don't get what you're saying.


Oh my I could write a BOOK on this question: I very much understand where Develli0331 is coming from , and have talked to countless others who have been hindered similar to myself ...

My trying to make sense of it all - from my own experience... 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...sets-collide-sexually-repressed-awakened.html

.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Interlocutor said:


> And for the arguments, "Well, you could do oral/hands before and get a feel for each other's sexuality without intercourse..." then what is the difference? Somehow one girl is getting penis in her mouth or her vagina licked every weekend from her boyfriend remaining celibate while another girl got a penis in her vagina once and she failed to "save" herself for her husband... All of these things are completely irrational to me. I'm sorry... The Earth is round now.


 Me & mine didn't do oral at all before marraige... but even the touching would seem irrational to you. Had I met a man like yourself (there was plenty to go around) with this attitude (it is belittling)... I would know he was not for me... it is clear you don't see the act as "sacred", highly treasured, I would feel of no more value than the previous woman or the next. 

FOR ME, the genital into genital = the becoming one..... something very "*sacred*" about that. 

Everything else I now see... as FUN, experimental, but genital into genital has the POWER to create LIFE itself......does anything else in this life carry such weight, such awesome power and responsibility with it ...I ask ??

I don't see this as irrational at all, I have changed my views on sex in many ways, but in this, I have remained the same. Best to marry someone who views it as ourselves, this is very helpful .


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## Interlocutor (Dec 29, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Me & mine didn't do oral at all before marraige... but even the touching would seem irrational to you. Had I met a man like yourself (there was plenty to go around) with this attitude (it is belittling)... I would know he was not for me... it is clear you don't see the act as "sacred", highly treasured, I would feel of no more value than the previous woman or the next.
> 
> FOR ME, the genital into genital = the becoming one..... something very "*sacred*" about that.
> 
> ...


You have failed miserably at understanding my point, which if you had gotten, you'd see I do not think it not to be treasured AT ALL.

What's IRRATIONAL is to condemn as immoral or anti-secular (sinful), something which later screws some women up (see threetimesalady's VERY wise posts), the intercourse a woman might have had premaritally, condemning this while dismissing petting, making out, oral, hands, etc. which are essentially, sexual behaviors of a different kind simply. Many Christian girls are raised this way. They will sit in my classroom and tell other friends of theirs, "Nah, I didn't do anything wrong, just oral."

What's RATIONAL is to uphold them ALL (sexual behaviors) as special, too special to express with emptiness... The moment I first kissed my wife, the moments we first caressed each other in bed, mind and body racing, making love, ALL OF IT, is special, never to be forgotten even if I hadn't married her... But to tell a girl she is immoral or sinful to sleep with a man out of wedlock simply to have her doing oral/hands with her boyfriend so she could "SAVE" herself is absurd. She didn't save herself. She just saved one kind of sexual behavior, sexual intercourse. 

Again, AND PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME, it's irrational to think there is a difference, morally, between one girl getting oral sex premaritally and another girl getting intercourse premaritally. They may both be right or both be wrong, but to think there is a difference is IRRATIONAL. God probably doesn't want you doing either if you believe in him (sorry, Him, some people take the proper pronoun very seriously), but if you're having oral sex with your boyfriend every weekend to think you are "saving" something for marriage, all you saved was what? Intercourse? Virginity? Some of these concepts are so antiquated and lack modern clarification... A woman who has had intercourse ONCE premaritally is not a virgin, right? She failed to save herself for her husband, right? But if she sucked off 10 guys before her husband 100 times each instead, she's a virgin, right? She saved herself successfully? Do you find this rational? This is what many young women believe, something I have much experience in since I teach high school. 

Truly, any behavior of this kind *should be special*. NOTHING I wrote indicates that I don't agree with you on that. On the contrary, I wholeheartedly agree. ANYTHING regarding pleasing each other's genitals, these tools that can create life, is TRULY as special as you can get!!! 

I am proud to say I HAVE NEVER slept with a woman I didn't have deep feelings for even if the relationship failed later. At the time, each of those moments, down to the slightest kiss, was special to me. 

You have very obviously refuted an imaginary position, probably from hasty reading. I would warn you to read more carefully before you make baseless claims about me having a belittling attitude toward sexual feelings or about me "clearly" not treasuring something or other. You are "clearly" barking up the wrong tree and such judgments reveal poor comprehension. 

Unless you wish to maintain that genital on genital contact ONLY is special while oral or hand on genital etc. are empty acts, then you are engaging in a strawman fallacy or have confused my post with someone else's I think.

Let me know, because I can retract everything I posted and wouldn't mind debating you on that... If that's what you maintain. If so, here's some food for thought before you post: Do you think a good, decent, honest man would rather marry a woman who slept with one man a few times or a woman who gave and received oral to/from over 5 guys hundreds of times? Who's the virgin? Who's not? Who saved herself? Do you want to maintain that genital-on-genital is what's sacred? Let me know, because I don't think my hypothetical decent man would be lining up to marry the latter. lol

This kind of thinking is so antiquated and irrational it's like still using an abacus or sunclock.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Boy did you ever tell me Interlocutor !!  I think I hit a nerve and you have a right to rant back at me.... I thank you for that. I like what you say here. I do. I think very much like my friend ThreeTimesALady on here, and I did notice she LIKED some of your posts and you are right --- I DID read rather hastily this morning -usually I am more careful but today I was in a rush....but I am glad now as you have replied with some food for thought. 

Very interesting you are a School teacher and see this sort of thing every day . The attitudes, the carelessness of sex, even without intercourse, there is no emotional or commitment to these acts then- with these boys ? I would surely be against that also. . 

I am still trying to figure all of this out in my own mind , as I suffered the whole guilt/shame merry go round for what we did -we were terribly emotionally attached & planned to marry but I felt God Judged us at every turn, what can you do, when you are indoctrinated every week with this stuff, how can it not affect your psyche. 

Having 6 kids of my own to raise uprightly, they love their youth group & are getting these same teachings that it is ALL wrong -no touching, nothing until you are married, 2 of them wear their silver rings proudly - I feel it is too stringent personally-they are setting themselves up for a fall even - I don't want them to end up like me , what I struggled with mentally before marraige & after, those hang ups followed me right into my marriage... my biggest regrets of all. 

It was funny, a couple weeks ago, I tried to post on a Christian forum about this subject and got banned within 2 hours, they called me immoral & jumped all over me...just for the attempt at asking. 

I am somewhere in the middle on it all. I feel the world is way too loose but the church is way too strict. I DO very much like the way you describe it all in your post. I speak very similar in my thread that I put my heart in soul into on this subject so my daughter makes "good" decisions -without regret : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...-sex-relation-love-her-emotions-her-life.html



> What's RATIONAL is to uphold them ALL (sexual behaviors) as special, too special to express with emptiness... The moment I first kissed my wife, the moments we first caressed each other in bed, mind and body racing, making love, ALL OF IT, is special, never to be forgotten even if I hadn't married her...


 I get what you are saying here. I personally would never give that away if I didn't feel a lifelong commitment though, but I think you agree with that, so it seems. 




> but if you're having oral sex with your boyfriend every weekend to think you are "saving" something for marriage, all you saved was what? Intercourse? Virginity? Some of these concepts are so antiquated and lack modern clarification... A woman who has had intercourse ONCE premaritally is not a virgin, right? She failed to save herself for her husband, right? But if she sucked off 10 guys before her husband 100 times each instead, she's a virgin, right? She saved herself successfully? Do you find this rational? This is what many young women believe, something I have much experience in since I teach high school.


 No, it is not rational the way you described this here. I am no longer a christian, I have way too many issues with scripture, I can never go back. 




> Unless you wish to maintain that genital on genital contact ONLY is special while oral or hand on genital etc. are empty acts, then you are engaging in a strawman fallacy or have confused my post with someone else's I think.


 No, I do not believe that. I feel it all should be with someone you love and trust and ....for me, going to marry. 



> Do you think a good, decent, honest man would rather marry a woman who slept with one man a few times or a woman who gave and received oral to/from over 5 guys hundreds of times? Who's the virgin? Who's not? Who saved herself? Do you want to maintain that genital-on-genital is what's sacred? Let me know, because I don't think my hypothetical decent man would be lining up to marry the latter.


 It's all about the heart, isn't it.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I didn't wait. I'm really glad I didn't wait. 

And since far too many people marry that should never marry, I am not going to suggest to my son that he should feel the need to wait until marriage or even assume he will want to marry at any point in his life.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> I've said this before in another thread, but I'll say it again. It doesn't matter if your spouse was your first, it only matters that he/she is your last.


:smthumbup: I agree!

My husband was my first and only. I didn't plan/wait for marriage. Heck, I didn't even anticipate marrying _anyone_ but I fell in love with him and knew I wanted to spend my life with him. 

I waited for love. I knew it would crush me if I didn't feel loved and respected by the man I gave myself to. I was protective of myself and didn't want to be anyone's fool. I wasn't my husband's first. He waited for me to be ready though and I think we did nearly everything under the sun during that time and leading up to intercourse. We explored and experimented and had lots of sexy, sensual fun. In hindsight, this was the best thing we could have done. 

It never crossed my mind to try different lovers or feel like I was missing out - maybe because him and I just synced on so many levels and our sexual journey together was good. That's not to say we haven't had our moments of disconnect and our relationship has been all peachy. 

It's interesting to me when I read here that many feel that sex is the glue that's held them together. While sex is certainly important to me/us, I always felt our bond and friendship was the glue. Not to be confused with just being "friends" but I not only love him but I like him as a person too. I think our mutual understanding of each other has been our glue. When my 30's hormones kicked in, my own sexual preferences seemed to get kicked up a notch with that drive. He's been understanding in this and it feels like we're rediscovering each other sexually again. 

If he hadn't met me when we were young, I'm not so sure I'd be as guarded with my sexuality as I matured... but I have never felt I 'missed out' by having him as my only lover.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

oops, but maybe I shouldn't be on this thread as I didn't wait until marriage. He's been my only lover and while I cherish that we've experienced this journey together, I don't necessarily think it's enhanced our marriage and/or is something I regret either. 

Sex is special because it's him and I. End of. Am I glad I found a sexual partner that I vibe with? Yes. Am I glad that I didn't get hurt or feel used through sex, before him? Yes. Would my husband have cared if I'd had experiences before him? No.

The "special" to me is being together.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Pandakiss said:


> the choices we make in life arent always easy, or easy to live with. you cant change the past, but you can make the future better.


:smthumbup:


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

Hello.

i've read most of this discussion and thought i'd blow in.

My husband and I waited for religious reasons. We struggled alot but managed to ust Scrape through on the intercourse front. During our better moments, we really benefited from just spending time together talking, and hanging out lots with our friends. I found that we were able to build a foundation of friendship and able to take about the prospect of mariage in a more sober frame of mind. 

Sex is a really important component of marriage and is very powerfully bonding. But when I hear.friends struggling or consider divorce, the pressing issue is usually to do with things like communication problems, disagreements over finances,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## QuietSoul (Feb 11, 2012)

character issues such as dishonesty. or external stressors.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

QuietSoul said:


> Sex is a really important component of marriage and is very powerfully bonding. But when I hear.friends struggling or consider divorce, the pressing issue is usually to do with things like communication problems, disagreements over finances,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Finances yes, that is probably the biggest source of marital stress, but I would bet few of your friends would honestly and openly talk about sexual problems.

"Communication problems" is often related to, caused by, the source of or a code word for sex.

As to whether anything in a marriage is more "pressing" or important that depends on whether you are the sexually satisfied partner. If you are satisfied or have only a modest driver, then I suppose it seems that just about everything else is more important.....except of course the sexual choices of your partner, then sex is will be seen as the very essence of marriage.


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

There is a lot of evidence to suggest that we didn't evolve to be monogamous and celibate at all. And that religion, agriculture & property ownership are at fault. Look at most of the primates similar to us (communal, genital size, etc) - none of them are monogamous. Very likely we are meant to be promiscuous but property ownership (that comes along with the necessity of agriculture) has us taking one spouse so that we can pass our property on to our kids. These communal relationships that our ancestors very likely had wouldn't work today except in true communes . . . and we know there aren't too many of those around.

Of course, most of us that are married strive for monogamy but there should be some understanding pre-marriage for lack of monogamy and ergo, an expectation of premarital sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Threetimesalady said:


> I guess I am going to refrain from giving anymore "likes"...The reason being that I would hate for anyone to ever think that someone is bringing my name front and center for the wrong reason.....


 Ahhh don't do that - I just said that cause I didn't read all of Interlocutor's posts before I went & jumped on his words -I just picked out one part and RAN with it....without seeing the whole picture. ....but I did notice that you Liked one of his posts in the corner of my eye - & I just thought to myself ...."well he can't be all that bad "..... as I often relate to your way of thinking , and I know you don't give out likes all the time -to begin with... 

If you LIKE something, LIKE it, don't worry about anyone else, your name is not being used in a bad way. Doesn't matter why you like it... inspiration... you agree.... someone is being kind to you... whatever, why deny why you like it. 

I put I liked his reply to me -even when he was kinda ticked at me for my hasty words ! Ha ha I liked it cause he gave me something new to THINK about and turn over in my mind, alot of good "reason" was in that -filled with the emotional in regards to this "not often talked about" subject. 



> *Interlocutor said*: If so, here's some food for thought before you post: Do you think a good, decent, honest man would rather marry a woman who slept with one man a few times or a woman who gave and received oral to/from over 5 guys hundreds of times? Who's the virgin? Who's not? Who saved herself? Do you want to maintain that genital-on-genital is what's sacred? Let me know, because I don't think my hypothetical decent man would be lining up to marry the latter. lol


 I asked my husband this last night, explained your reply .... he said he never looked at it that way before... and yeah, he would choose the woman who was only with one man & had intercourse over the one with 5 guys with wild oral sex . And he is a very decent man.


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## Middle of Everything (Feb 19, 2012)

finebyme72 said:


> There is a lot of evidence to suggest that we didn't evolve to be monogamous and celibate at all. And that religion, agriculture & property ownership are at fault. Look at most of the primates similar to us (communal, genital size, etc) - none of them are monogamous. Very likely we are meant to be promiscuous but property ownership (that comes along with the necessity of agriculture) has us taking one spouse so that we can pass our property on to our kids. These communal relationships that our ancestors very likely had wouldn't work today except in true communes . . . and we know there aren't too many of those around.
> 
> Of course, most of us that are married strive for monogamy but there should be some understanding pre-marriage for lack of monogamy and ergo, an expectation of premarital sex.


Breaking down our sexuality to biological imperatives is not a good idea in my book.

Women would be "driven" by their DNA to find the strongest most likely to provide/survive male and mate with him. Then raise and protect her young. And repeat as many times as possible. That insures the most chances for her DNA to live on.

Men? Screw everything that moves, as we have a near unlimited supply of "DNA". Best chance that way that our genes live on, and are passed down.

Breaking everything we do as humans down to survival of our DNA and what is considered "most natural" is a road I dont want to go down.


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

Middle of Everything said:


> Breaking down our sexuality to biological imperatives is not a good idea in my book.
> 
> Women would be "driven" by their DNA to find the strongest most likely to provide/survive male and mate with him. Then raise and protect her young. And repeat as many times as possible. That insures the most chances for her DNA to live on.
> 
> ...


That's the conventional wisdom but the evidence suggests otherwise. The evidence suggests women are almost as promiscuous as men and that the competition tends to happen in a surprising place - the vagina. Men's sperm seem to "compete" with each other to impregnate the woman which means that if they have to "compete" there must be other sperm to "compete" against. Early human societies and some primitive societies now have very promiscuous relationships. The marriage is a relatively new phenomenon in the scheme of human history. And these types of relationships have helped make communities throughout history stronger, not weaker because men were less likely to kill a kid because it could be his own. Also, the whole "it takes a village" philosophy takes on an entirely new meaning when it really does take a village.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm all for understanding tendencies in behaviour based on biology and evolution, but we need to be careful about seeing those tendencies as norms or inevitable.

I do think that marriage is culturally "oversold" and more people need to accept that it is not a necessary or, for some, a desirable state of being.

However, simply saying that my DNA makes me want to punch the guy in front of me in line at the bank machine doesn't mean I should just give in and punch him.


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## finebyme72 (Jul 12, 2011)

Lionelhutz said:


> I'm all for understanding tenancies in behaviour based on biology and evolution, but we need to be careful about seeing those tenancies as norms or inevitable.
> 
> I do think that marriage is culturally "oversold" and more people need to accept that it is not a necessary or, for some, a desirable state of being.
> 
> However, simply saying that my DNA makes me want to punch the guy in front of me in line at the bank machine doesn't mean I should just give in and punch him.


Agreed. I am married and while I've been bad at times (online stuff) I certainly haven't physically or emotionally cheated. Its tempting but so far so good.

With that said, dismissing or minimizing biology isn't a good idea either. I just think we need to be true to who we are.


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## effess (Nov 20, 2009)

I wasn't a virgin before I married my wife, but she was. We waited until we were married before sex (even though we did fool around alot aka manual and oral) beforehand. 
So I don't know if we actually count in this discussion. As for me, I have no regrets that we waited until marriage. I know some people claim that you should know that you are sexually compatible with your partner before you marry them, and that's not a bad argument. The problem with that is, as we've seen in these boards time and again, is how a spouse's sexual preferences can change dramatically through the years. Just because your spouse was as horny as a jackrabbit and a complete freak when you were dating doesn't mean after 10 yrs of marriage and 3 kids later they will be. 
Also, speaking as someone who wasn't a virgin when I met my wife - a part of me wishes that I was a virgin when we got together. I feel like my prior experiences clouded or distorted my ideas about female sexuality. On the other hand, I might not have appreciated my wife sexually if I was a virgin. Or I might have wondered what other women were like in bed. Who knows.


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