# New here and so upset! Long one, please read and advise....



## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I'm brand new here and I Need some advice and perspective!!

Hubby and I have been together 13 years, married for 9, two kids aged 8 and a 7 month old baby. Our life was picture perfect - been together since late teens/early 20's, put eachother thru school, built my husbands career - we have a beautiful home, two beautiful kids and wonderful group of friends we travel and do everything with. We were like the Cleavers! Everyone who knows us always says w have the "dream marriage". Sex is good, we are both in shape and active, always doing things together and as a family....

So I was BLOWN away last month - I read an article about the spotlight search on an IPHONE and how you can read deleted texts. I was 100% sure my husband would NEVER cheat on me - he promised me allllll the time he was not that type of man. Well on FATHERS DAY I found the deleted texts - it's hard to make sense of them because they show up out of order and no date, but they were obviously suspicious things like "I have a huge d***" and "send me more pics!! You're smoking hot!!!"

I sent the kids to my dad and confronted him and he hung his head and admitted everything...here's his claim:

10 months ago (I was 7 months pregnant) he got bored with porb so started browsing craigslist as a new form of porn. Says he did that for a few months till he thought it'd be more exciting to contact them. So he set up a fake email account and started emailing girls two weeks before our second son was born!! Dirty emails about what wants to do to them and asking for pics and to make plans to meet up. This went on for months - he says he would go a couple days or weeks without doing it because he knew it was wrong, but then start doing it again. When he was doing it he would do it for 3-4 days I. A row emailing dozens and dozens of girls at a time. 

Emails then escalated to texts. He got a few addressss and arranged meet ups - now that I know he says he NEVER went thru with any of them, it was just so they would keep sending him pics.

He did admit to meeting one girl at a bar for beers - I called her and she told me they met for beers and she was annoyed because he talked about me and the kids the whole time. He said he did that because he felt soooo guilty the whole time.

He has told me "everything". I have all his passwords and have read every email. None actually indicate he went thru with anything...

We are paying a fortune for couples counseling. The counselor even told me he can see the shame and regret in my husband....

He says he is 10000% committed to me. We have started going to church again and it is really helping him. After every sermon he says he feels even worse about what he did because he realizes how bad he messed up...

The only contact he had with a girl was on a business trip...his coworkers all got drunk and they wound up at a strip club. He admitted to a lap dance. I'm sick to my stomachs, but appreciate that he's being honest about the details no matter how embarrassing they are to admit. 

Everyday he gets home and give and his phone to look thru. We are on the same iCloud account so I can't see his exact location and websites he's on...he does seem to be trying...

I just can't get past the hurt!!! 

I know emotional affairs with one person are very hard, it at least they make sense. This doesn't make any sense. He went looking in the scuzziest place on earth - he said he liked the thrill of the chase and the excitement of getting a reply. My husband is good looking and said he didn't feel like I appreciated him enough. He liked being told how hot he was....

This went on for months!!! He talked to so many girls...saw soooo many pictures of naked girls bodies. I hate it...

Another bad part is that all of our friends know. The night I found out I was so upset I thought our marriage was over so I told them all...we do everything with these families. All our kids are in school and sports together...its all so embarrassing. Like I said, we were the golden family everyone looked up to...

Where do I go from here? Can he really change? Or should I just throw in the towel...????
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

I'm just heading to sleep now but I guarantee, you and the kids never come up in the conversation. 

I stopped after that because he is lying.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

No, she told me that. He met her on CL that morning and they met for beers that afternoon, I have every email. I fexted her the day I found out and she told me everything - she said she was annoyed because she felt like he was using her as a therapist. She told me she knew all about our wedding in Hawaii and how we met and blah blah blah...they met for beers that one time and I found out a week later. I saw the receipt for the beers and he was home on time so I know they didn't go anywhere after...

I don't think he's hiding anything anymore, that's not my concern so much as can I ever get over this hurt....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

If this was an escalation from porn, it sounds like sex addiction. Needing to go to more and more extremes to get the dopamine high. I know many debate whether that's a "real" addiction or not. Hope not to make this a thread jack. 

If that's the case, few recover without outside help. If he's a Christian, I'd recommend Celebrate Recovery, which has helped me immensely. It could also help you to recover from the pain of betrayal.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

Thank you for your response! We both wondered for a moment of he had a sex addiction, but neither his personal counselor nor our couples counselor think that is the problem...

Like I said in our original post - from the outside we were the perfect family. Our counselor thinks we both put way to much pressure on ourselves to live up to a ridiculous standard and in the end left him feeling inadequate...the perfect home, nice cars, beautiful kids, vacations - I thought we had it all, he was left feeling powerless and like he couldn't please us....? Not that I'm excusing what he did, I'm just realizing my fault in our marital problems. If I could go back 10 months ago before this started I would do so many things differently...

He's always been an amazing husband...until all this. He was very attentive to me and the kids...I had no clue any of this was going on. So then to read texts and emails where he tells woman what he wants to do to them, it's heart breaking. None of it is fetish stuff - just pretty much regular old sex, but it's hard to hear him talk about that...he said it was fun to do and see their reaction...?

Our counselor says we humans have a way of justifying our actions to ourselves to make thibgs ok...he said during all this time when I thought everything was ok and I was the new-mommy world with my sweet baby at home, he told himself it wasn't cheating because it was just words on a screen....and now the counselor and church has made him realize no, they are not just words. He know sees what he did was an affair, because those words and thoughts were promised to me and only me. I had that he met a girl for drinks and even went to a strip club. Those are so out of character for him....

I want my marriage to work, but I'm scared its to late...I'll always know he's seen all those pictures and videos of other womenZ f
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

I can understand you. But I think you did wrong telling all your friends about it. That will come back to haunt you. This may even induce him to leave you. You have done the most terrible thing to him. And it wont do you any good either. I dont think therapy will help, he is likely to do it again and you have to learn to live with it if you still want to stay married. 
He says he never went through with it and you believe him, so it's not the 'worst'.
I think you should forgive him at least try to, you will both get over it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

afab said:


> I can understand you. But I think you did wrong telling all your friends about it. That will come back to haunt you. This may even induce him to leave you. You have done the most terrible thing to him. And it wont do you any good either. I dont think therapy will help, he is likely to do it again and you have to learn to live with it if you still want to stay married.
> He says he never went through with it and you believe him, so it's not the 'worst'.
> I think you should forgive him at least try to, you will both get over it.


Yeah! Keep it secret! That's the ticket!

Ummm.... No. That's not the ticket.

Now everyone knows they can help him to not do anything so self-destructive again. 

He risked his marriage for a few photos of other women's lady bits? What a twit!

OP I think there's a chance for your marriage.

We will help you. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
I understand your feelings entirely. Your H's mind is now full of images that should be you but are not. He has expanded his database and you are now just another byte. Ultimately what led him to do what he has done is immaturity. As we mature we begin to realize that life is a compromise and that what we want is rarely what we need. We develop the ability to seperate our wants from our needs and we also realize that our wants are quite often not only unnecessary but potentially damaging to us. He has not reached this place yet and the real question is does he have the ability to.

If he can mature, through whatever means, then change is possible. If he cannot, then he will be this way throughout his lifetime. It falls to you to make this determination whereon your decision to stay or leave rests. Ultimately only time can prove definitively if he has the ability to grow beyond this. His actions will prove or disprove his words. So my advice would be to observe him carefully and adopt a trust but verify approach for whatever amount of time you feel is reasonable and note his progress or lack thereof.

Lastly, as Matt said, having his actions exposed is necessary for him to face and deal with the consequences of his actions. That is a necessary part of growing up, one cannot mature if one is not held accountable. Adults take ownership of their actions and accept full responsibility for them. I wish your family good fortune.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Question to ask him.

"Would it be acceptable for me to interact with the brothers or husbands of the women you met through CL?

"And if your answer is 'no' why did you think it acceptable for you to do this to me and your children?"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I agree about accountability and exposure! I certainly don't think my telling him was the worst thing I could do to him - I'm sorry, but I disagree on that!! What I regret is who I told - maybe a family member or someone else would have been better. Our friends are amazing and have all came forward to reveal some problems their marriages shave survived as a way to give us hope. We learned one couple survives addiction to pills and alcohol and multiple rehabs, and another survived a one night stand affair years before we met them. Even knowing all that now, it's still incredibly embarrassing when I see them. 

We are working 100% to save our marriage, we both are - but I'm scared of the judgment from others. I know what others think should be the last of my worries, but it's hard not to think about....

I'd love to hear success stories of spouses getting caught and never doing this again! I'm just sooo hurt for how long it carried on. He emailed sooooo many woman, and asked most of them to meet up. He says he never would have gone thru with it it was just the thrill of the chase and flirting....I guess I can understand that but my dear is that what if he never met any of them only because the timing/location/plans never worked out? What if the details had worked out...would he have? I'll never know...

I'm sitting in church right this very moment while he checks our older son into the kids area and am just so ready to pray for my marriage. 

How long will I think about this constantly?? I tell him at any given time when he looks at me that he can bet on the fact I'm thinking about it. It's consuming me 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You are in counselling for yourself, yes?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

We are in couples counseling right now - it's almost $200 an hour and we're going an hour a week...I have a counselor I can call, but right now were spending close to $700-800 a month, I can't add anymore on top of that...

Our marriage counselor does take time with us individually when he thinks we need it, and then brings us back in together to discuss.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
One piece of advice that I hope you can take to heart. We all should live our lives for ourselves and our families. As long as we are doing our best, what those outside of that circle think is their issue to deal with. You mentioned church. Assuming Christianity, think of how Christ was considered by most in his time and yet it did not dissuade him from his goal. If you end up divorcing your H because of the betrayal, the lack of trust, his immaturity or any valid reason stemming from his infidelity then so be it but I implore you do not discard your marriage, your family, over what others may think about you for staying with him. That would be a travesty of the highest order.

Your friends, and they do seem to be friends, shared personal information with you regarding some painful times in their lives. They understand your discomfort and your embarrassment and they wanted to help alleviate that by sharing. Accept their offer and realize that facing problems in life is inevitable and how we deal with them displays our character. Do you think any less of your friends? Then why would you believe they think any less of you? If they do, then they are not true friends anyway. Trust your friends and your friendships. Let your decision to save your family be based on your H's ability to change, your ability to forgive, but never on what other people will think, that is irrelevant.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

AFamOf4 said:


> Thank you for your response! We both wondered for a moment of he had a sex addiction, but neither his personal counselor nor our couples counselor think that is the problem...


He very well might not have an issue with a sexual addiction. For it to be an addiction, I would think it would need to be much more intense over a many year period.

It could be a one-time thing and he gave into the temptation. Now you both know he's got this weakness so you can protect your marriage against it.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Well, this is a huge, hurtful betrayal, isn't it? So, of course, it is very hard for you to process.

My problem with your story is that they all say that they were curious and it was a fantasy and they just wanted pictures, but they never went through with it. They always say that, but it is almost always a lie.

Your case might be the rare exception, but if I were you, I would keep digging for the truth. If you do the work to reconcile and then find out that he indeed did follow through, then your reconciliation will likely not work. I think you should do everything you can to push for the truth. Even if he never made it physical, I still would bet that there is more.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry you are here.
No matter how much more you learn, the betrayal is done. Now it is up to you whether you want to reconcile with your WH. I know I couldn't if this happened to me personally but we all have different responses. 
If you do want to make it work, you must insist he gets intensive IC, followed by intensive MC. You yourself might benefit from IC. You must tell him that it is up to him to put things right. He must be made to understand the damage he has caused. 
It seems as if he is remorseful but the truth is things will never be the same. You will never trust him again the way you did. If you and he can live with that then maybe there is some hope. However, the amount of work needed will be long and painful, only you can make the choice to reconcile or call it quits. Some men do this and see the hurt and destruction they have caused and never repeat their mistakes, some don't.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You should ask him for his iPhone and have a PI download all his past texts and messages.

Then you will most likely know the truth.

If he is truly remorseful he will allow you access to his phone.

Before any true reconciliation can take place you have to know "all" the truth to the best of your ability.

And your H has to be truly remorseful and wanting to work on himself, his issues and the marriage.


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## poida (Jan 17, 2014)

Aside form your problems, $200/hr sounds like a lot.
See if there is a more affordable alternative as you are going to be in this for quite a while.


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

Welcome, and I am so sorry you are here.

I think your marriage may still have a chance because your husband confessed to more than what you found. But please keep in mind he may be confessing more, hoping you will believe it is less than what it truly is. As others have said, keep your eyes open. Don't rug sweep. He is showing remorse and that is good. I truly believe you must know the whole truth to really move forward, but how do you ever really know when you have it all?

I'm in a similar situation, although my spouse did meet up with other people including prostitutes. My husband denies most of his actions even with hard black and white evidence. He is showing no remorse, but does not want to lose us. We are in the process of a divorce.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

AFamOf4 said:


> No, she told me that. He met her on CL that morning and they met for beers that afternoon, I have every email. I fexted her the day I found out and she told me everything - she said she was annoyed because she felt like he was using her as a therapist. She told me she knew all about our wedding in Hawaii and how we met and blah blah blah...they met for beers that one time and I found out a week later. I saw the receipt for the beers and he was home on time so I know they didn't go anywhere after...
> 
> I don't think he's hiding anything anymore, that's not my concern so much as can I ever get over this hurt....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, cause some skank on Craig's List would NEVER lie about ANYTHING...

Lady wake up, and fast, before you catch an STD you can't get rid of.

I know MANY guys like your husband and they ALL close the deal, if they can. 

And if for w/e reason he didn't bang this garbage, he's definitely banged other trash.

LOL, using Craig's List just to live out an emotional affair. If you say so...


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## IWantGreatMarriage (May 20, 2014)

AFamOf4 said:


> Our friends are amazing and have all came forward to reveal some problems their marriages shave survived as a way to give us hope. We learned one couple survives addiction to pills and alcohol and multiple rehabs, and another survived a one night stand affair years before we met them. Even knowing all that now, it's still incredibly embarrassing when I see them.
> 
> We are working 100% to save our marriage, we both are - but I'm scared of the judgment from others. I know what others think should be the last of my worries, but it's hard not to think about....
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OP, when you see your friends after they have told you their problems, what do you think about them? Do you judge them? Or do you appreciate they told you and pray you come out of this stronger?
What has helped in the past in obsessing on what people think about me is by putting myself in their shoes. I know am not that judgemental and more often than not I empathise with people; I assume others will do same for me. Whether they do infact do that does not matter because I have zero interest in being a mind reader.

Goodluck with everything. Sorry am not an expert in CWI so can't advise on that


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

I read the cl adds, mostly because my ex had a history, not her personally but her exbf was big into cl adds, and I've dug up some online archives where it appears they were into pretty raunchy stuff together. She denies it, her sexual enthusiasm during our relationship was pathetic, so I tend to believe her...

That's what drew me in, the enthusiasm of the cl personal ad. I never did contact anybody, but I did fantasize about some of the very graphic sexual nature of the posts.

I could see how if I wasn't involved, I may contact somebody, just to see if they are real, but the ad would have to really spark, and let's face it, enthusiasm is just a façade for desperation.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

AFAM, don't worry too much of what others are thinking of you and your husband. You did nothing wrong. You exposing your husband's action is a good thing. You both can now get support and help from your family and friends. 

It's surprising you think you marry this person and its your marriage. Between the two of you. Then, something like this happens and you realize your marriage affects so many people. I am sure everyone is hoping and praying you work thru this.

That being said, its now up to your husband to change his ways and work towards creating trust and a stronger marriage. And its up to you to figure out how much you can withstand.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

AFamOf4 said:


> *I'm just sooo hurt for how long it carried on.* He emailed sooooo many woman, and asked most of them to meet up. He says he never would have gone thru with it was just the thrill of the chase and flirting...*What if the details had worked out...would he have? I'll never know...*
> 
> *How long will I think about this constantly?? *I tell him at any given time when he looks at me that he can bet on the fact I'm thinking about it.* It's consuming me *


AFo4,

I was cheated on for years (multiple EAPA) by my fww before finding out the truth. 6 years now in R. I speak from my own experience only... my thoughts.

Your fixation is normal. I know the drill, you wake with the same thoughts that ended your previous day. Consuming? An understatement in the least. Every angle, every possibility, is analyzed and re-played a 1000 times. As AffairCare says... It's like putting together a jig-saw puzzle with missing pieces, you will never see the whole picture.

Hear a truth... A BS trying to R wants the gaps filled in, brought up to speed. The problem is the only person that can do this, knows the absolute truth, is your WS, who at the same time is ashamed and wanting to "put it behind us." 

As I learned from IC, your WS will never answer your questions to satisfaction. You will always wonder if there's more. Not necessarily because they are lying or minimizing (they do), but more because there is never a "right" reason or justification for betrayal. 

In short, time is your only real ally. Good luck, press on, better yourself, live on.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

Wow! First off, I'm not in some la-la land trusting everything that is told to me. I'm a smart person and not a fool...

To be honest, what did that girl have to gain by lying to me? It's hard
To explain it, and I probably would roll my eyes at this too, but I did believe her. she had no idea I would contact her, I got her number from a deleted text. She had no idea who I was or what my husband had already told me. He told me the entire story - about a week before busting him he had found her ad on CL and emailed her. They spent the morning emailing and texting land he said she was the only normal sounding girl he had "chatted" wth the entire 6 months he had been searching the ads so he asked her to meet him at a restaurant/bar after work. Both their stories and timeline match up - he had been texting me that whole day too, and now his texts to me make sense. They met for about an hour at this restaraunt, had a beer and then he drove home. There were no texts or phone calls between them after that, I know that for sure. She said she was annoyed because she thought she was finally meeting a nice dude, but he talked about us the entire time. That's how she knew about our wedding and stuff...she said he told her he was looking for "a companion to hang out with..." Honestly at that point what did she have to gain by lying to me? She answered every single question I had, without knowing what my husband had already told me and their stories were same..

As for his side of it - he says the whole time he was driving to meet her and even sitting at the table he was thinking "what the [email protected]&$ are you doing here? You're married, you have a beautiful wife and two kids at home" and he said at that moment he knew he never would have been able to go thru with it....whether that's the truth I guess I'll never know...

But I guess I could be doing the same, or anyone could, and we'd never know...I'm left with the choice of I trust him NOW or not. He knows if I find out more, I'm gone. He's had the chance to tell me EVERYTHING so I could get over it all at once...


I can tell he feels shame and regret. The details are embarrassing and he's offering them to me on a silver platter. He's synced our phones so I can receive every text message he sends and recovers, I can see his location at all times and his websites he's on. He really seems to be trying to be transparent. 

I realize he could have another phone or something....I brought that up during counseling. My counselor said I couldn't see the forest thru the trees....he said my husband is making a huge gesture and I have to decide to accept it or not. But if I don't want to accept it then we are wasting our time a money. If I'm not willing to try and trust again at some point than the marriage can not be saved. 

I don't think he was trying to fulfill a EA online...i think maybe he did get consumed by all this. Since finding out, I've been consumed with sights like this...I tell myself "I'll read just one more story" and an hour later....he said that's exactly what happened with him on CL. And after a day or two he'd tell him "this is wrong! No more!" And he's stop for a few days or weeks...and then I'd be busy with the baby or we'd have a fight and he'd do it again  

I'm not stupid, I know he could be lying still...but for the first 12.5 years of our relationship he was a good man. He said he will do anything to get back to being that man for me...I really hope we are the small percentage that can survive this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

To the rest of you offering comfort and support a thank you a million times over!!!!!! It feels so good to hear from others who understand what I'm going thru! 

I love the comparison of doing a puzzle without all the pieces. He's answering every single question I have, but because I wasn't in his head the whole time, it's hard to know where the gaps are or what's missing, Ya know?

I would never judge our friend selfie what they've been thru, but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't awkward to be around them in the roles were reversed. Our husbands all play on a baseball team together and the wives and kids go every Friday night to watch the games. It's simple, but it was something we always looked forward to every week. Last Friday was the first night I went since finding out - it was so very awkward, but no one brought it up so that was good. Our kids soccer team will start practicing soon so I will be seeing them 2 nights a week plus Saturday games, so I'm hoping with time it will get less awkward...

I think he really did see just how much he had to lose. Can the wandering spouse be In a fog while they are doing it and really not anticipate the consequences?? Or am I just wishful thinking? 

To the one who asked if I could find less expensive counseling...unfortunately no. The area we live in, that is the going rate. We live in California in an area where everything is astronomically expensive, $200 an hour was actually less than some others...and our insurance doesn't cover marriage counseling. 

Again, thank you all for your replies and support. It really does help to get this all out there. And I welcome any more questions or anything, inthibknits good for me to see other perspectives just to keep me in check, even if they are hard to hear...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

He sounds like he was very, well, lonely.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

Have you looked into EAP, many employers offer up to 5 free sessions, and if they are convinced your clinically depressed your insurance will cover some of it.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

gouge_away said:


> Have you looked into EAP, many employers offer up to 5 free sessions, and if they are convinced your clinically depressed your insurance will cover some of it.


What is EAP?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> He sounds like he was very, well, lonely.


Yes, that is how he explains it - lonely. 

I admit to my fault in our marital problems - everyone warned us to take care of our marriage and make time for eachother, but then kids come and it's so easy to get wrapped up in them. Couple time became family time - we had wonderful family time all the time and I was happy, but he was scared to admit to me that he was feeling satisfied. He says he felt like family time should have been enough - he says "I had it all, what did I have to be unhappy about?" So he didn't try and talk to me about it because he didn't really understand it. The counselor is helping him with that so he doesn't wind up in the place again, and it helping us with our marriage too. 

I'm not justifying what he did or saying I deserved it, just saying I see my fault in the problems leading up to it. When he'd suggest a date night and to get a sitter, I'd suggest a family night out instead because I love spending time with our kids. I wasn't fulfilling that need for him. Do I wish he'd have handled it differently? Yes!!!!! But I see now he was lonely and that makes me sad that I made him feel that way. I may get bashed for admitting that, like I'm making excuses for him - I'm not...it's just that I always thought I was a great wife and it's hard to hear that he was unhappy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

The bottom line is this OP:

1) Your husband may or may not still love you. No one can see into his heart and all you have is his actions to go by. Talk is cheap and he's a proven liar.

2) Your husband desires to have sex with other women. FACT. Whether this was because he's bored in your relationship, lost attraction, etc. is irrelevant.

3) Your husband can not be trusted right now. Many cheaters go underground and continue their activities. Unfortunately, you have become a part time warden. 

4) Your husband almost certainty has had physical relations with other women. You MUST assume that and decide accordingly if you STILL want to reconcile.


Browsing Craig's List is just slightly above hiring a prostitute. Make sure he gets tested for STDs before you touch him with a 10 foot pole. Then test yourself just to make sure.

This OW has every reason to lie. She doesn't want some crazy wife coming after her. You think "nice" women respectful of marriages hang out on Craig's List posting sex ads?

No one thinks your stupid, we just don't want you to be naive. You want to assume the best (i.e. it was just an EA), you have to assume the worst (i.e. PA with multiple women).

He's not some teenager where sex is a big deal. He's an adult and adults have sex. If you make it so far as to jump on CL and meet up. It's incredulous nothing has happened so far.

Since you like comparisons think of it this way. People don't walk into a McDonald's to look at the menu and leave. They go in to get their junk food craving satisfied, period.


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## intuitionoramiwrong (Mar 18, 2014)

What made you decide to randomly go through deleted texts? Were there other red flags that led you to do this?


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

intuitionoramiwrong said:


> What made you decide to randomly go through deleted texts? Were there other red flags that led you to do this?



No, no red flags at all!!

I'm in an online mommy group and one woman posted a story about finding deleted texts on her hubby's phone and urged all of us women to check...I thought "I'll show her, my husband would never..."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> The bottom line is this OP:
> 
> 1) Your husband may or may not still love you. No one can see into his heart and all you have is his actions to go by. Talk is cheap and he's a proven liar.
> 
> ...



I see what you're saying, I really do!! These are all thoughts that go they my head constantly....

Ok tell me honestly what to make of this...

He gave me the password to his secret email and I've seen all of them. There www only about 10-15 where he gave out his phone number, the rest went nowhere. Of those few, I am able to then jump to the texts and see what was said...so one of them he gave his number and she started texting him and send him a picture and they flirted for a few texts...then bam she asks what he wants and how much she charges and he replies "sorry, was not looking for an escort and not interested anymore". another time someone asked what he's looking for and he replied "someone to hang out with, companionship and maybe more is there is mutual attraction"...Now these were deleted texts so he has no idea I would ever see them. Those were his honest answers to a random girl...

So do I know for sure nothing happened? No. But he never knew I'd see that...

Give me honest opinions that I may not have thought of myself...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

My honest opinion: men don't want June Cleaver.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> My honest opinion: men don't want June Cleaver.


Hmmm, interesting opinion. Maybe they don't, but I am who I am and that is who he CHOSE to marry. I'm a pre- school teacher whose hobbies are running and baking. I'm a soccer mom, on the PTA, classroom volunteer. I'm a church going Christian...he knew all of this the day he proposed and the day he said I do. He says I am exactly what he wants.... But he "got lost for awhile". 

If not June Cleaver, what is it that men want?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

AFamOf4 said:


> Hmmm, interesting opinion. Maybe they don't, but I am who I am and that is who he CHOSE to marry. I'm a pre- school teacher whose hobbies are running and baking. I'm a soccer mom, on the PTA, classroom volunteer. I'm a church going Christian...he knew all of this the day he proposed and the day he said I do. He says I am exactly what he wants.... But he "got lost for awhile".
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He says that. What he does is troll Craigslist for dirty girls. Personally I believe his actions more than his words.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

WorkingOnMe said:


> He says that. What he does is troll Craigslist for dirty girls. Personally I believe his actions more than his words.


That's a good point. I'm going to bring up tonight...am I enough for him for the next 60 years in the bedroom? I was always satisfied with our sex life, maybe he wanted more...

In the emails and texts, he never talks about anything to kinky or any fetishes...girls ask what his face positions are and it's always basic stuff, nothing shocking. But your point is valid
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I have to be honest, even if it's hard to hear, I appreciate getting some males perspectives on this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Consider that what he feels guilty about is not being able to suppress his desires. Which confirms that he has those desires. Is suppression a viable long term possibility? 

He sounds pretty tame. Perhaps small movements on both your parts would be enough.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Your husband's behavior is not entry level cheater behavior. It is hardcore cheater behavior, reckless and dangerous to you. And it is the hardest type of infidelity to heal from IMO. Because it will always be available and tempting him. He didn't fall for some tramp who made him feel "special", he was looking for some easy strange with members of the worlds oldest profession.

He might not have a kink, not all men that troll CL looking for sex want kinky sex. They just want someone that isn't their wife, that they can ask to do things they don't feel like they can ask her for...In other words you aren't enough and never will be. And that is not on you, that is his problem.

It is also highly unlikely that you just got lucky and caught him just as he was starting to do this. You caught him, but like I said he is an experienced cheater, you just weren't wise to it. 

If you hang around here long enough you will see that right now you are only seeing what you want. You don't want your life to fall apart so you are minimizing this whole situation. You have only seen the tip of the iceburg.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

I thought I knew what I was doing and that he and I were in the right track to healing this, but this website has made me question all that....

I thought maybe he really had seen how much he hurt me. He does seem sincere and like he's trying everything he can to prove that to me by giving me full access at anytime to anything I want...but now I'm scared I'm just being manipulated more. 

I don't know what to do. If I divorce him, will I ever be able to trust another man again? I guess anyone could do this... 

His explanations seem to match up, his answers have never changed and there is no evidence this ever went farther than what I know about...the counselor thinks we are doing good, too. But hearing all your stories has me terrified...I'm trying to focus at work right now but I'm suddenly as sick to my stomachs as I was the day I found out.

I asked him to do a polygraph and he said he would. I contacted a certified polygraph person near is...its $650 dollars and she requires that our marriage counselor contact her beforehand to reassure her we are stable people and that he's to fear I will go off the deep end if I find something out...I can respect her taking precautions given what she does and what she must have seen in her career. 

Would any of you make your spouse do a polygraph to prove their story?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Regardless if his problem is indeed sex addiction or whatever it is, remains totally immaterial! If this marriage is going to be saved, then get ready for many steady months, perhaps years, of MC together!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

A Famof4, what do YOU actually want?
What can you live with?
What 'pain' 'worry' uncertainty are you prepared for?
If he betrays you again (he may or may not) will you be ready for it? (you have to set YOUR boundaries)
How much are you prepared to give to the R?
Will you always have to look over your shoulder with him?

Your WH has a problem (it wasn't just one person and a one off thing) and it may rear its ugly head again, maybe the kids will be older and you will be better prepared.
MC will help alot imo but you have to know what you want and what you are prepared to do (e.g. walk away) if he pulls this again


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## where_are_we (May 24, 2013)

OK, I was thinking due to his remorse that maybe there was a chance. But now that I am reading more of your story, not so much.

I agree with the poster that said your husband is exhibiting hardcore cheater behavior. He almost got busted, he admits to a bit more than you think, shows genuine remorse and now he has you where he wants you....with your rose colored glasses back on.

I am not trying to be mean, but you really need to open your eyes. Denial is a beautiful thing. It allows us to live in the happy life we want to have and want others to think that we have. But you know, somewhere in your gut you felt something is off. If you truly thought your husband would never....well, you would have never checked his phone. 

People like this can and will deceive you. My husband deceived me for 12 years (7 married). I am not projecting, I am just trying to help you understand that some people can truly be deceitful. Now mine showed no remorse, will deny until the death, that is what psychopaths do. Everyone that now knows is so shocked because they thought...he would never. But he did. I didn't really have red flags either. Now that I know, there is a sea of red flags that I missed.

This is just what you know. There is always more, you will never know everything. Trust me. You don't troll and talk with that many women and do NOTHING. 

And you know what, who cares what other people think of you. What he did is about him, not you. It does not matter if you are June Cleaver or a Porn Star, or both, it is not a reflection on you. 

Please, please get STD testing. If you must have contact with him, make him wear protection. 

Again, sorry you are here.


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## gouge_away (Apr 7, 2015)

There is always a chance.
Her husband isn't the first to wander.

You said that you goto church together, Ele assumed your Christian, do you also pray together, if not, this would be the time to start.

Read: Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend.

_" We change our behavior when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of changing. Consequences give us the pain that motivates us to change."_

EAP is your Employee Assistance Program.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

where_are_we said:


> *This is just what you know. There is always more, you will never know everything. Trust me.
> 
> *


QFT...

The one constant to all Affairs.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

So many of you are saying the same thing, I'm listening to it all and taking it in, I really am...

I'm really trying not to be naive or have rose-colored glasses on. 

The fact is that right now I have chosen to try and save my marriage. I've read countless professional articles about when a marriage is worth saving, and my husband seems to fit every single sign. You say there is probably more and most people actually go thru with these affairs...

he swears it never happened and I can't find any evidence it did! I have all the deleted texts and emails, iPhones store them. Wouldn't I find something that indicated something actually happened more than just emails?? Im really not trying to only see what I want to see, I'm gathering facts and trying to find out what happened. What if he really is telling me the truth like he says he is? 

We talk every night for hours - something our old relationship (before me finding out) was lacking. There was so much tv watching in our house, now we talk every night. He answers all my questions, over and over again anytime I have one. He's being patient and seems genuinely disgusted by his behavior and remorseful. He allows me access to his phone at any moment. He even went as far as to give me remote access to his work computer even tho I know it's be pretty impossible for him to do anything while at work, but he still said he wants to prove to me he's not up to anything....
At some point I need to decide to believe him or not, or staying married will never work. I'm not handing over my trust just like that, but I do think he's told me the worst of it. He ubderstands that healing cannot happen until he's honest - he's agreed to the polygraph. We have to get our counsellors consent before we can make an apt - the polygraph company requires it. He says he is scared only because our entire future can hang on how one person reads the results, but that's he's told me everything and has nothing to hide and will take it if that's what I want. 

I'm not try to defend him on here...I'm just hurt and confused. Someone here mentioned that what I know is probably just the tip of the iceberg...but at some point a WS has revealed the whole iceberg, right? I'm just praying he is one of the small few that have because I can't find anything to say otherwise. When he confessed the details to me, he didn't know what I'd already read and found on his phone. I had no idea of a separate email at the time - he told me about it and gave me the password because he wanted to be "100% transparent". 

I'm sorry, I know I'm just rambling now...its 5 AM and maybe I'm using this forum as my own personal sounding board to try and figure out what to do next...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

AFamOf4 said:


> So many of you are saying the same thing, I'm listening to it all and taking it in, I really am...
> 
> I'm really trying not to be naive or have rose-colored glasses on.
> 
> ...




I was the person who said it is likely just the tip of the iceberg. I say that because I have lived through my Ex's infidelity and the YEAR it took to uncover most of the truth. What I found out at the start after I initially confronted him was very similar to what everyone else experiences. It is called "trickle truth" yes, they lie to you, family, friends, priests and therapists. 

My Ex was THE least likely person to ever do what he did, we were married for over 20 years and he never so much as looked at another woman in an inappropriate way. So imagine my shock when I found out he was carrying on with a 29 year old employee (he was 49), he swore on his Mother's grave and on his own life that he NEVER had sex with her. Even after I found a receipt for a hotel marked CASH he swore the hotel made an error, until I said we were going there to meet with the manager to clear it up. He finally told more of the "truth" then swore again, I had the whole story...Months later, I knew I didn't have it all, I didn't care. I knew our marriage was beyond saving. I was unwilling to live my life looking over his shoulder and my own wondering if my own husband would stick a knife in my back yet again.

Read some of the stories on here and you will see how many people come back and say they wished they'd have listened to the posts they didn't want to hear. Not many come back sadly and say you were all wrong. I would have. I hope you can one day, I really do.

My heart breaks for you and the horrible position your husband selfishly put you in. There is another poster here SecondTimeRound that went through a situation with her Ex and CL, perhaps her story would help if you are interested.

Just prepare yourself that there may be more. For months, that you know of you were completely blind to what your husband was doing. You can't be sure of what the real truth is. But what he did was not idle harmless curiosity. Hookers on CL don't just shoot the Sh!t with men who don't pay. My friend is a vice detective and arrests many through CL, they are very down to business, put up the cash and hook up, if there was repeat contact with one number he was a repeat customer. That is just the truth, hookers do what they are paid to do. Your husband didn't have a crush on a PTA soccer mom that he took to Starbucks to chat about you. He solicited a prostitute, he is a John and that is criminal. Sorry.


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## RayJakeman (Jun 23, 2015)

AFam---you asked for more male perspectives.
He cheated on you plain and simple---you have just seen the lead ups. You actually know this. Know this though he never had an affair and so was never emotionally involved with someone else. What started this slide was his not talking and when he did (date night) you never listened. Men do not give up attention ,sex etc for their children--hear me now--they don't-they want both. But no excuses for what he did--its a betrayal of marriage and its stupid beyond belief to act out and risk so much.
So here is my advice. You have asked and everything has been answered. It is countless hours and digging and patching timeline and more questions. So leave it but do this: Give it 6 months and set aside some money in the meantime. After 6 months hire a private investigator to check out what he is doing.He would have switched tack and got a lot more clever with throw away duplicate phones, email accounts, private mailboxes etc. meeting places, "business trips" or he has not. Then you will know and your course of action will be clear.Now you will have to be tough and pretend its ok for 6 months but your marriage will come out ok or it won't because cheating can be forgiven (unlike affairs).


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry that you are really grappling with this. Your husband may be one of a very very small minority who has confessed to all but I doubt it. Especially if he is looking up CL! If you are to proceed with R please please tread carefully and have your ears and eyes open and your mouth shut. Trickle truthing is the name of the game and if you are willing to reconcile so quickly why on earth would your WH come totally clean as it might jeopardize the trust and goodwill he has already built by giving you access to his pw, accounts, pc etc. Wait for the polygraph and then decide based on the outcome what to do. Just keep doing what you are doing.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> I was the person who said it is likely just the tip of the iceberg. I say that because I have lived through my Ex's infidelity and the YEAR it took to uncover most of the truth. What I found out at the start after I initially confronted him was very similar to what everyone else experiences. It is called "trickle truth" yes, they lie to you, family, friends, priests and therapists.
> 
> My Ex was THE least likely person to ever do what he did, we were married for over 20 years and he never so much as looked at another woman in an inappropriate way. So imagine my shock when I found out he was carrying on with a 29 year old employee (he was 49), he swore on his Mother's grave and on his own life that he NEVER had sex with her. Even after I found a receipt for a hotel marked CASH he swore the hotel made an error, until I said we were going there to meet with the manager to clear it up. He finally told more of the "truth" then swore again, I had the whole story...Months later, I knew I didn't have it all, I didn't care. I knew our marriage was beyond saving. I was unwilling to live my life looking over his shoulder and my own wondering if my own husband would stick a knife in my back yet again.
> 
> ...



It is all very surreal!! My husband was the least likely to do this too, total family man...

I posted earlier about the whole escort/prostitute situation...from what I've read, it seems he would reply to an ad and they would start out just flirting. After a few emails or texts she would then make it clear she wanted money for sex and he said "sorry, not looking for an escort. Not interested" and it ended there. That happened a few times...never do the texts or emails continues once he found out they were escorts. I do think he was looking for a real person - in some of the emails the women ask him why he's looking if he's married and he tells them he's lonely in our marriage and he wants companionship. He's saying this to strangers, never knowing I'd ever read it...it's those types of signs that are having me lean to believing him...

What he did was sooooo wrong and hurtful and DISGUSTING!!! I'm disgusted every time I read the emails, but I can't stop...o don't want to stop because I'm scared if I do it'll get swept under the rug and I'm not gong to let that happen. But at the same time, if it never went further than words on a screen (even tho that's terrible, I can admit it's not the WORST), then is it worth divorcing? Right now the counseling and church are helping us to build a stronger marriage, I can feel it...but of course I'm scared of being blind sided again. 

Thank you again for your time, I do appreciate the different perspectives
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

RayJakeman said:


> AFam---you asked for more male perspectives.
> He cheated on you plain and simple---you have just seen the lead ups. You actually know this. Know this though he never had an affair and so was never emotionally involved with someone else. What started this slide was his not talking and when he did (date night) you never listened. Men do not give up attention ,sex etc for their children--hear me now--they don't-they want both. But no excuses for what he did--its a betrayal of marriage and its stupid beyond belief to act out and risk so much.
> So here is my advice. You have asked and everything has been answered. It is countless hours and digging and patching timeline and more questions. So leave it but do this: Give it 6 months and set aside some money in the meantime. After 6 months hire a private investigator to check out what he is doing.He would have switched tack and got a lot more clever with throw away duplicate phones, email accounts, private mailboxes etc. meeting places, "business trips" or he has not. Then you will know and your course of action will be clear.Now you will have to be tough and pretend its ok for 6 months but your marriage will come out ok or it won't because cheating can be forgiven (unlike affairs).


That's an interesting idea. Can a PI find out if he has emails accounts, etc? I've thought about hiring an investigator and perhaps waiting a good 6 months is a good idea.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

I really hope that your situation is different. Don't sweep it under the rug, it will just surface later.

I would schedule the polygraph if I were you, think about it, if you were asked to take one about your fidelity you'd like say "sure bring it on" I know I would have. 

Hold his feet to the fire on it and make the appointment, if you want the truth from him this is very likely the only way you will get it.

Like I said, if I wanted to save my marriage and avoid divorce I would need some other verification that he was finally telling the truth. He is now a known liar to you, you can't take his word for much right now.

Have you scheduled an STD test for you both? He should go through that to show the aftermath of the risk he put your family in.


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## AFamOf4 (Aug 2, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> I really hope that your situation is different. Don't sweep it under the rug, it will just surface later.
> 
> I would schedule the polygraph if I were you, think about it, if you were asked to take one about your fidelity you'd like say "sure bring it on" I know I would have.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, He got STD tested within days of me finding out.
Everything came back negative - he says he knew it would because he was never with anyone else...whatever the reason, it was good to know he was clean
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

AFamOf4 said:


> Oh yes, He got STD tested within days of me finding out.
> Everything came back negative - he says he knew it would because he was never with anyone else...whatever the reason, it was good to know he was clean
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I really hope your story turns out different. I would gladly eat my words to see someone have a different ending to their story. My heart breaks for the pain and anxiety you are going through. I'm glad you are in counseling and getting support.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> Read some of the stories on here and you will see how many people come back and say they wished they'd have listened to the posts they didn't want to hear. Not many come back sadly and say you were all wrong.


Has anyone ever come back and said that?

I mean we've had a few fools come here and say, "I wish you didn't tell me to investigate because ignorance is bliss" and a few others that said, "I never found out for certain so I'll never know the truth" but I don't recall anyone ever saying, "It was just one big misunderstanding".....

This place feels like cancer sometimes. If you're here asking for help, more than likely, you are probably too late. The damage is done. 

OP: If you want to save your marriage that is 100% your choice but do so UNDER THE PRESUMPTION that he has slept someone else. Not this sad, "maybe he's part of the 0.1% who didn't go through with it" notion because if you find out later on he did, like MANY BS do, you are just begging to have your heart torn out of your chest AGAIN.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

1. Too many of us found out the hard way here on TAM that there was more then what we thought.
2. The biggest red flag for me is that he hooked up with a craigslist girl. The folks that post on CL (both men and women) are looking for what? Friendship. No!!!!! They are typically looking for sex. Let's say for a moment that the hookup at the bar was just as your WS and the craigslist girl stated. If so, then you got a huge break. There are several of us that are hoping that what you say is all that happened, but we don't believe it. I don't.
a. They could have had quick sex in the car, in the bathroom, in the parking lot, under a tree, etc.
b. They could have agreed to keeping their stories the same. My wife and the XOM did this.


I think a poly is a waste, but that is just my opinion.

Cheaters lie and I mean lie. And they can be convincing liars. 


I hope that what your husband said and what you found so far is all there is, because too many of us have found out that there was more.


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## RayJakeman (Jun 23, 2015)

Afam---you will drive yourself crazy reading and re-reading all the emails and asking the same questions over and over.Stop it now. His resentment will build and build (I have told her everything---I have shown her everything--I got tested for STD's like she asked---what more must I do?). Tell him you forgive him and that you are willing to put it behind you. Be clear that you trust what he did is all in the past, and it may be. Show this after a few weeks of passing on the cellphone when offered or checking every email. If you pick up any signals (and you will even without checking every email), call a PI straight away (just be clear to set a cap on the amount).This time you are wiser and sharper to signals and still have the 6 month verify plan in place. For your sake try to find a normal for the next 6 months including having sex (put in your head he never had an emotional connection to anyone but you).

When, and I hope for your sake, it is all behind you have a plan to tell him (say after a year) that you checked on him with a PI. If he came clean and stayed clean, so must you. It will be clear that you are no fool and if he treats you like one again he will lose everything.

ps--forget polygraphs--expensive and always inconclusive


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