# Struggling to reclaim self esteem



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I've not posted my full story yet but last summer I caught my wife in the very early stages of a workplace A. Her company sent her and 14 others to their headquarters for an entire month and she stayed in a hotel. I was paying bills while she was gone and saw over 100 texts to some number I didn't recognize in the first two weeks she was gone, confronted, and smacked it down really hard.

She claims nothing more than drinks (a lot of nights of it) ever happened. But she spent every waking moment with this guy, catering to his needs, texting things like "he looks bored" while in the same room with him. I have no evidence to the contrary, and she has been truly remorseful, so I have no choice but to try to put aside my worst fears of what happened and accept her version of events. Her almost/possible OM was 10 years younger than I am, empircally handsome (think young Brendan Fraser), and really fit. I'm not ugly, but I am not the young hottie her OM was.

Although we've reconciled and things are generally great for us, my self-confidence and body image are shattered. This wrecked me in a lot of ways that I can't seem to put behind me.

How did other BS recover their self confidence after something like this?


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

My wife's OM was somewhat of a doppleganger and my confidence was wrecked for close to 2 years


It depends on both you and your wife on how you can reclaim your confidence. Your wife needs to demonstrate remorse (see the newbie link in my signature) and help instill confidence in you by not only being transparent but also boosting your self worth by making you feel special. You also need to rely on yourself for your own worth. Always look to what makes you a great husband, father or whatever else it is that you do well. 

Remember the affair WAS NOT YOUR FAULT and it wasn't because OM was better looking. Some waywards affair "up" and some affair "down". Who or what OM is has nothing to do with YOU. It has everything to do with your wife having weak boundaries and acting out selfishly.


----------



## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

What AR said is true. VERY. And if you want to start feeling a bit better, start working out. Get a new haircut, get some new clothes. Pick up a new hobby. Do things to drive up YOUR sex rank.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

And what is she doing to help you rebuild your confidence and self esteem?

She broke it, she at least needs to help fix it.


----------



## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

Well from what I've read a lot of times when it comes to affairs it's not even really about the looks but how that person makes the WS feel. Have seen plenty of stories where the AP was worse looking and a lot worse off than the BS. But what you're feeling is normal. Like someone else said, start working out, get better clothes etc. And don't rely on external validation to feel good about yourself.


----------



## ody360 (Feb 1, 2013)

Most definitely work on yourself. Exercise, a lot of self esteem issues also has a lot to do about how you just feel about yourself. Try to slowly get yourself set to were you don't need anyone to make you feel good. Do it for yourself. Nothing makes me feel much better then jumping on a elliptical and pushing out 3 miles or hitting some weights and trying to hit a new max. Yes your spouse can help. But in the end it still come down to you..


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks guys. I do work out - 5 days a week. Lost over 30 pounds. It clears my head but doesn't give me a sense of accomplishment or pride.

I was NOT like this before this past incident with my wife.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks again. My wife and I have reconciled and honestly, things have never been better between us. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.

When you find out your spouse of, in my case, 20 years this year, is suddenly capable of forgetting about you in an instant, and seems ready to throw away your entire life together for a cheap grind with someone who, by all accounting, is merely younger and better looking, it shattered my confidence. I mean, my world felt like it came apart. She was my world. I adored her. (THAT in itself was a huge part of the problem.)

She is trying very hard to help, but honestly, her efforts are hollow to me because I know confidence and self-esteem are internal qualities. I had them before. I feel like half the person I was.

I have read (and HIGHLY recommend) NMMNG and MMSL. I've read them both and they have done incredible things for MY MARRIAGE, but not necessarily for myself. I've even started a group on FB for recovering Nice Guys (nearly every man I know, frankly). I totally buy into the need to be more Alpha when you are oriented to be Beta. All of that is well underway. Maybe I'm just impatient.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

like trust, confidence takes time

your confidence is also directly tied to the trust


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I should add that it's not an all-the-time feeling of worthlessness. It comes in waves.

This morning I told her that she dropped a huge rock into the fairly calm pond of our marriage. The initial splash is over, but there are ripples still hitting the shore every so often. That's the best way I could describe it. The initial impact is done, but the repercussions lap up like waves.


----------



## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Note to Members

The "180 Rules" Are considered copyrighted material. The author has requested that they not be posted on TAM. The post was removed. Linking to the author's site for them is fine. Thanks.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> I should add that it's not an all-the-time feeling of worthlessness. It comes in waves.
> 
> This morning I told her that she dropped a huge rock into the fairly calm pond of our marriage. The initial splash is over, but there are ripples still hitting the shore every so often. That's the best way I could describe it. The initial impact is done, but the repercussions lap up like waves.


yup

I've said it many times, healing isn't linear

you have a good day then two bad days, then 3 good days, one bad day, etc

overall the good days start to become more frequent as you come closer to healing


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Here is the 180 plan linkhttp://www.divorcebusting.com/


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

In_The_Wind said:


> Here is the 180 plan link The 180 Plan | Improve My Marriage


I dont think the 180 is a good idea for him currently, his wife is R'ing and is being transparent, demonstrating remorse, etc

that said, doing things just for himself and not her isn't a bad idea at all


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I feel that so often we tend to lose ourselves in the other person the point i was trying to make is that doing things for oneself while in a relationship is the Ideal way to go. That may take different aspects of the 180 to get a person to concentrate on them selves IE like developing hobbies, friends, whatever instead always trying to be with their partner in my opinion would increase ones self esteem


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

point taken and I agree on that aspect of it, that doing something just for himself will help towards building his esteem, but linking to the entire list without stating that could lead him to do something that could be more harmful

just MHO


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I am not going to be led into a harmful place with the 180. That saved my sanity last summer when this all went down. I've been lurking ever since June 2012, learning and reading, empathizing with so many other betrayeds on here. I am a Newbie, but only in post count. I've been with you all for many months.


----------



## WyshIknew (Aug 18, 2012)

Just to reiterate, in case you missed it but do take a look at Almost Recovereds link at the bottom of his posts.

There is a lot of good advice there for both the betrayed and the wayward spouse. I think the 'Understanding your betrayed spouse' section in his second post is very good at letting WS know what they are dealing with and how to make things better.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

In_The_Wind said:


> I feel that so often we tend to lose ourselves in the other person the point i was trying to make is that doing things for oneself while in a relationship is the Ideal way to go. That may take different aspects of the 180 to get a person to concentrate on them selves IE like developing hobbies, friends, whatever instead always trying to be with their partner in my opinion would increase ones self esteem


^This. I agree. When you define yourself in terms of "us", you place into the hands of someone else, both the burden of your self-worth, as well as the power to take it from you.


----------



## Idyit (Mar 5, 2013)

I'm not sure how this fits in with MAP, 180 or NMMNG (do all of these as well) but looking at my own strengths and weaknesses has helped. Every one of us has had to take a look in the mirror to ask the painful questions about what did I do/not do. 

On almost every cheating thread the BH will say something like, "I haven't been the perfect husband..." In your own estimation where did you not excel? Do something about this. Be the man you would be proud of. Make the changes that will position you best for this marriage or your next relationship. 

Recognizing your strengths or value proposition is important as well. What is it in you that caused her to commit to you? What have you done to add to your initial value? What do you bring to the table that makes you valuable as a partner in her life? Don't do comparisons in your head, just list list the positives. 

This is the same exercise I've done countless times with employees and those I've mentored concerning their career path. In life you are always interviewing for what comes next. Make yourself the obvious choice.


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

I apologize I was going to clarify in my link but had several folks in my office so i just posted it hoping to come back and when i did Amp had already busted me So OP my point was to get you to concentrate on you at the same time you have to also spend 10 or more hours a week with your spouse doing things like walking, going to movies , out to eat, the type of things yall did when you first started going out.


----------



## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Inland, you say you have no choice but to accept her version of events, but why. What do you really think happened? Do you really think after a month they never even kissed? How far do you think they went? Did he get farther with your WW then you have?

If you don't know what really happened these are the questions that will plague you for the rest of your life. It seems complicated but its not. You don't know what happened so its human nature to expect the worse. So you either have to accept that something happened and get over it or you have to get some answers.

If I were you I would force her hand and find out what really happened. Make her take a poly and tell her if she doesn't come clean you will divorce her. She can win you back if she still wants you.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Does she take these trips often? Every year?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

They have her out of town occasionally, but never for something this long. Usually just two or three nights. Bad enough because they always load them all into hotels and give them happy hour coupons. I swear there are some companies that, while they are not cheater-friendly, are decidedly anti-family. They would be happy for the employee to give up a personal life for "the collective".


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Summer4744 said:


> Inland, you say you have no choice but to accept her version of events, but why. What do you really think happened? Do you really think after a month they never even kissed? How far do you think they went? Did he get farther with your WW then you have?
> 
> If you don't know what really happened these are the questions that will plague you for the rest of your life. It seems complicated but its not. You don't know what happened so its human nature to expect the worse. So you either have to accept that something happened and get over it or you have to get some answers.
> 
> If I were you I would force her hand and find out what really happened. Make her take a poly and tell her if she doesn't come clean you will divorce her. She can win you back if she still wants you.


I tell you why I chose (my decision) to accept her version. 

1) True, genuine, sobbing, snot-running, fetal-position remorse.

2) She immediately and fully complied with all of my demands for transparency and removed this guy out of her world.

3) The road back has been almost completely her making amends while I ran the 180 and MAP.

4) In 20 years, I've never seen any kind of behavior like this from her. She doesn't even have it in her to leave a grocery store with something the clerk forgot to ring up. Her conscience bothers her about very small things - no way, I think, she'd be able to live with a secret like that.

If I had encountered what so many of these guys here do, a wife who starts calling me controlling, or refuses to break off contact, etc, I would be history.

The problem (and reason for my thread) isn't that I am struggling to R - we are there and things are fine. The problem is, in my heart and spirit, I feel deflated. I cannot let go of the insecurities that I wasn't enough then, so what's to say I'll be enough the next time? I am physically a different person - new clothes, new appearance, 30 pounds lighter and way more buff. I get complimented all the time. I had an old client yesterday tell me if we passed in the street, he'd never even recognize me. All of that is for the better.

But none of it actually helps my self confidence. It all just strikes me as insincere. Maybe this **** has put me in a depression.

And to anyone out there even thinking of cheating, "you know not what you do."


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

inland you have nothing to be ashamed of hold your head up high, time helps with alot of things and you will have rollercoaster feelings going through this stuff. I am 4 years out from a similar situation and our marriage has never been better we communicate better, spend quality time together, and spend time with our kids, Have you considered maybe going to IC for help in this area ???


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP,

My discovery of my spouse's affair was painful, and I spent months without knowing what to do. I was not aware of TAM.

Now, somehow I found my confidence, which I did not know existed in me.

I work out 6 days a week, and am in much better shape.

Confidence takes some time.

Almostrecovered is spot on.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I just get the feeling that you rugswept the affair.
Just a word of caution, bro.


----------



## Busy Accountant (Mar 15, 2013)

Hi Inland
I am in a similar situation as you. I discovered multiple EA's about a year ago. Interestingly they were not sexual (from what I could tell), but definitely emotional and wrong. H had been emotionally neglectful and abusive for years, something he had perfected from his own father. 

When I told him what I knew, that I was no longer willing to live this way and that I was preparing to leave, he totally turned around and has treated me better this past year than he has all of our 30 year marriage. Flowers, ecards, foot rubs, he even does the dishes! We did some serious time with a MC defining the relationships and he examined why he acted the way he did. I'm like you, I have to accept his version of events and trust that he is telling me the complete truth. I still have doubts, but no way to ever get any more information about the relationships.

If you look on the surface, everything should be fine. But that's the problem. Logically, my marriage is strong, but my emotions are still a mess. Many days I am still angry, focused on the women and the betrayal itself. I find it hard to concentrate, and spend time researching EA's rather than working! Despite everything that has gone right in the past year, I still can't figure out exactly what these women offered him over me and why he chose to treat them better than me. I have good days as well, but this winter has been really hard. I went to a counselor who helped me understand and justify my anger. I've learned that I shouldn't be so hard on myself, and give myself time to heal. 

Currently, I trust my husband and believe he is truly remorseful, but its the past that still haunts me. This totally sucks. Give yourself more time and patience. I feel for you and wish you the best


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks so much everyone.

I can assure you, there was no rug sweeping. It was entirely my way or the highway. I was fortunate enough to basically do the 180 without knowing what it was.

Before this it was a marriage of equals - partners in business, partners in life. Best friends. Constant companions. I never doubted her. I trusted her implicitly. Now all of that has changed.

There are no more male friends allowed for my wife - no time alone with male colleagues at all. There are no Girls Night Outs. We date together or go out with other married couples, and that's it. 

Boundaries that we never thought we needed to discuss are now firmly in place. And, until I can let go of this and trust her again, she knows she can never delete a text or email until I'm okay with it. I know every password to everything, including her work email. She knows I verify the phone, check the email, monitor her. I never used to.

And there is the problem: I DON'T LIKE HAVING TO BE THIS WAY. I want to have that confidence in our relationship again, so that I can let at least some of my guard down. 

I know from this experience and those on this board, that the marriage I had is gone forever. What will rise in the wreckage is, I hope, an even better one, with much more communication than before. And so far, so good.

But none of that has helped me feel like I somehow wasn't, in some small way, responsible for her needing the attention of another man. There is that constant quiet voice in me that tells me that I wasn't man enough, or strong enough or "alpha" enough or a good enough father and husband. That I'm past my prime. And in my mind, if I can't reach the place where I know for sure I AM worthy of her fidelity, then I don't know if I will ever be able to stop waiting for the other shoe to drop.

It's a hellish existence, waiting for the one you love the most to drop another bomb on your life.


----------



## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Inland, I respect your decision totally. Just be carefull though because women are good at lieing especially when they have their back against the wall and they feel telling you everything that happened may lead to you leaving her. 

It's not that your wife is dishonest, it's just that one month is a really long time when your seeing another person all day and your mixing in alcohol. You think she's not the type, but as you said she was not the type to even flirt with another man before you caught her. Maybe the reason she was so hysterical was because she was still hiding a whopper. Not trying to troll you but keep reading some threads here and you will see this kind of thing happen a lot.

As far as dealing with this for the rest of your life goes, the feelings of being emasculated and helpless. From my experience the guys like you who stay in their marriage will always feel this way and never fully recover. Things may get much better, but I rarely see someone heal completely.

The guys who do rebound and land on their feet are the guys who make sure there is a price to pay for being cheated. These guys usually, but not always, divorce and then make the woman fight for them back. Some guys make the woman sign a postnup.

There are reasons why this works. This sends a message that not cheating again is not just a suggestion, it is something that will have consequences. It tells the woman that things are still not right, and if she wants the marriage to work she will have to put in the legwork. It prevents a woman from thinking that things can return to normal, the way things were before the affair.

I think the main thing is that there is a strong drive in all women to have a provider male take care of them, while they get knocked up by an alpha male. This desire is strong in ALL women, so if you facilitate it in even the tiniest form you always need to watch your back because some other smooth talking guy may come along.


----------



## hopefulgirl (Feb 12, 2013)

Have you read Not Just Friends, by Shirley Glass? I've found her book really helpful.

I think her book explains the trauma that we go through REALLY well. I think that's what you're experiencing. DO stop looking inward for reasons that she strayed. It was about HER, not about you. Your nagging feelings are really most likely coming from the shock of the infidelity. 

You've been traumatized, and your whole world has been shaken. This is not something that you will ever "get over," but the symptoms will gradually fade. A trauma can't be undone. The solid safety that you used to feel, the absolute trust that you felt in your marriage - that will never be there again. You will work together toward something approaching the level of safety and trust that you had, but it can never be as "pure" as before. The betrayal took that away forever.

Building that sense of safety and trust back up to a higher level takes time, and you've had less than a year - a couple years seems to be on the low end for healing as these things go, so you've only just begun.

Our innocence has been lost. We have to work toward something else instead - it won't be like it was, but it can be very good. (I sure hope so - it's less than 2 months for me, and I'm really struggling too!) We believed in something that was too good to be true. ANY marriage can have infidelity happen to it. And you're right, it does TERRIBLE damage. They lived on the edge, took a wild ride, had risky fun - look who suffers the consequences: us. Not fair, is it? Well, they do suffer some guilt and remorse, but the wounds aren't as deep as ours. It REALLY hurts, doesn't it? But time is a great healer, and I hope time and some understanding about the trauma that infidelity inflicts will help.


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

Does OM still work at the same work place? If so, that might be one
of the reason´s you feel the way you do.


----------



## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Jasel said:


> Well from what I've read a lot of times when it comes to affairs it's not even really about the looks but how that person makes the WS feel. Have seen plenty of stories where the AP was worse looking and a lot worse off than the BS. But what you're feeling is normal. Like someone else said, start working out, get better clothes etc. And don't rely on external validation to feel good about yourself.


I think this is true. I think this is generally true with women. Looks are important but not as important as how they make a woman feel. Notice that when we talk about "bad boys", "cougars", "alphas" we are really talking about how a woman feels, not what these guys look like.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Her almost/possible OM was 10 years younger than I am, empircally handsome (think young Brendan Fraser), and really fit. I'm not ugly, but I am not the young hottie her OM was.
> 
> Although we've reconciled and things are generally great for us, my self-confidence and body image are shattered. This wrecked me in a lot of ways that I can't seem to put behind me.


Inland, why not get in the best shape of your life? Do you know how to workout to build muscle? It takes about an hour a week at the gym. Most of it is eating, not exercising. Your SMV is going to be a lot higher than your wife's, if you're in shape. Like this guy:










It's about 10% exercise and 90% proper eating to get that body. Do that and it will put the fear of God into your wife. I know you're in R, but that will make sure you stay there.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

1) True, genuine, sobbing, snot-running, fetal-position remorse.

I hope that she told you the complete truth but this does not in anyway mean anything. Far too often the guy is blindsided when the wife cries. Thorburn did the same mistake(that was an year back). There was another poster whose after the confrontation became the ideal wife out of guilt but she did not reveal the complete truth(PA) until after an year.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Not to put a dampener of things but as someone else said, crying in fetal positions and snot crying doesn't really mean anything.
You imagine you've been caught, and at best you're trying to minimize the truth, at worst trying to hide the true extent of the cheating. Some part of her may have been sorry but this woman knows you better than you know yourself and it looks like you bought it. She was caught, trapped, some of the tears may have been genuine, or maybe they were tears of fear. My bet once she curled up all you wanted to do was hold her in your arms and protect her right?

First off she lied to begin with. She carried on this "flirting" and hid it from you.

You want to believe two adults can carry on such a relationship, have drinks, spend nights together and do absolutely nothing?

It was obviously an emotional relationship at best, physical at worst.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> I tell you why I chose (my decision) to accept her version.
> 
> *1) True, genuine, sobbing, snot-running, fetal-position remorse*.


Don't hang your hat on the sobbing, snot-running guilt phase to indicate that you are finally getting the truth. This is one of the biggest mistakes betrayed spouses make.

Once the cheater starts the sobbing, snot-running, fetal-position guilt-ridden apology, the betrayed spouse lets up and thinks they have the truth, and just quits the questioning.

I can tell you that it is at this point - the sobbing snot-blowing guilt - that the guilty party is very close to cracking and coming clean with the full truth. They want to get it off their chests and they will, unless you stop them. At the point of sobbing uncontrollably, they are very, very close to spilling the beans, and they will.

IF you just keep pushing hard - the truth will come out very quickly after this.

If you show any softness, any comfort, or let up at all, it gives the guilty party time to compose themselves and re-gain confidence in the lie they are telling.

I'm not saying that your wife is completely lying, but it is doubtful you have the full truth.

It is good that she is doing what you need, she has quit the affair - it was easy for her, it had not really been going on very long - but now you likely will never get the full truth.

In any event, the sobbing is a good sign that she truly is sorry for what she did. Likely it was a one-time thing, but in my experience, the truth comes shortly after the sobbing, and only after continued cold-demeanor questioning, not before.

Did you see the texts between her and other man? Were they all rather bland, like "he looks bored" or were they more flirty than that? What did she admit to as far as her feelings for the other man? On the one hand, you seem to be saying all she did was have drinks with him every night and text him a lot, on the other hand, you are shaken to the core at her sexual interest in another man. 

Did she admit to sexual interest in him, did you see texts to that effect, or are you just basing it on the sheer number of texts?


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Thanks again. My wife and I have reconciled and honestly, things have never been better between us. Perhaps I'm not explaining myself well.
> 
> When you find out your spouse of, in my case, 20 years this year, is suddenly capable of forgetting about you in an instant, and seems ready to throw away your entire life together for a cheap grind with someone who, by all accounting, is merely younger and better looking, *it shattered my confidence*. I mean, my world felt like it came apart. She was my world. I adored her. (THAT in itself was a huge part of the problem.)
> 
> ...


I hope you can see how contradictory this is. Confidence and self-esteem are internal qualities. They cannot be shaken by the actions of another person.

What the other person can do is shake your confidence IN THEM.

Part of your identity is your wife and your marriage. The lack of confidence is in your wife and your marriage, not in yourself.

Your behavior - improving yourself - is fine. It is, however - you competing with the other man. It was spurred by your wife's affair, as a reaction to her affair, to become more like the other man, so your wife could love you like she loves the other man. YOUR CONFIDENCE IN YOUR WIFE'S LOVE HAS BEEN SHAKEN. I don't think there is anything wrong with your self-esteem.

Another tidbit I can give you - there always is someone better than you out there. If the next handsome, millionaire sports star or movie star shows interest in your wife, will she leave you for him?

I think you have to get to the point of being OK with letting your wife go, if that is her choice. That you will be OK without her. Obviously it is not her choice to leave you now, but you are afraid, somewhere, that it WAS her choice back then, or would have been her choice if you didn't stop her in time.


----------



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I agree with others..work out! One thing about exercise is it affects your self esteen instantly. You feel better, more stronger, etc. I think the best thing for a BS is to look the best they can look.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Jonesey said:


> Does OM still work at the same work place? If so, that might be one
> of the reason´s you feel the way you do.


Same company but halfway across the country. It is highly unlikely they will meet up again, because this training was a one-off kind of thing.

They met at this training, stayed on the same hotel floor and shared a car together. According the the text history of her and the other people in the class, they were seen as unseparable.

She came home two Saturdays only during that entire month. The first weekend, she spent it out touring the city with this guy and a couple of other classmates. THE FIRST WEEKEND. It took less than a week to jeopardize 20 years, 2 kids, etc. And I never saw any of it coming. We weren't even having problems that I was aware of.

How quickly WS can forget their entire lives for a bit of strange is beyond me. But I've seen it many times in my own field, as well. Whenever we have conferences, or we get a wholesaler traveling down to schmooze us, they act as if they are single from day one.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

highwood said:


> I agree with others..work out! One thing about exercise is it affects your self esteen instantly. You feel better, more stronger, etc. I think the best thing for a BS is to look the best they can look.


Again, instinctively, I did that almost immediately. Otherwise, I would go insane. I have a private practice and work alone all day, so it was a kind of torture to be sitting at my desk wondering what she was doing. You guys know the drill- you can see the text messages on the phone bill, but you can't read them. I was driving myself crazy. So I hit the gym at lunch and made my lunch a two-hour workout every day. I still do it.

By the time she came home, I had already dropped 10 pounds, cut my hair short and grown a goatee for the first time in our marriage. She was very unnerved by how much I had changed in such a short amount of time. I told her, "That makes two of us."

The need to reinvent myself was instinctual. I almost felt that the old me - the trusting, idealistic one - had died.

Since then I have definitely caught and I think, even passed her sex rank again. She now chases me, and is jealous - REALLY jealous - of other women noticing me, for the first time in our marriage. I'm starting to pull the looks and smiles from women in their 20's again. That had been a while.

You hear so often here that you have to be willing to lose the marriage in order to have a hope of fixing it. That is so true. I set about to destabilize the marriage and immediately show her that her actions will have irrevocable consequences. There is no going back to blind trust and "group hug", soulmate-type feelings. Now there is simply a man moving on with his life. She is welcome to come along, and I hope she does, but it will no longer be on her terms.

For any male reader who doubts this Alpha / Beta thing, let me tell you: she has never been as sexual, flirty, or attentive to me as she has been since she lost control of our marriage. I am now the Captain again, and she is the First Mate. And, much to my surprise and contrary to everything you hear in this hyperfeminist world, she relishes it. She tells me I am the most attractive I have ever been (and she knew me at 21), because I am now grounded and focused and independent, and NOT "just her husband". (<--- let that sink in, fellas)

And I am. I'm just not happy. I resent, so much, that it was her actions that forced me to abandon the happy, trusting man I was, and replace him with a deliberately alpha, cynical, suspicious man.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> I hope you can see how contradictory this is. Confidence and self-esteem are internal qualities. They cannot be shaken by the actions of another person.
> 
> What the other person can do is shake your confidence IN THEM.
> 
> ...


Will you nailed it. In most aspects of my life, I am confident and self-assured. I was perhaps most so in my marriage. I was just one of those dupes who said proudly, "Never us. We will forever be WE." When, for the first time, that illusion was shattered, I was completely devastated. I mean panic attacks and even an episode of heart palpatations all night. Looking back, I think I kind of went into shock.

I know I am competing with the other man. I hate that MF'er with a vengeance I never knew I had. I hate him. Winston Churchill said that a man is only as big as the thing that makes him angry. And I believe that. That's why I am here - asking for advice on how to move beyond this urgent need to compete with someone I know is already beneath me. I beat him in every single way, except apparently the one that mattered to the love of my life. He's a young hottie with no responsibilities or achievements except a pretty face, and I'm a 41 year old father and husband and professional who gave everything, sacrificed a lot of my own dreams, for my family.

Ultimately I won - I got the girl. But in the aftermath, I feel like I lost my soul. Maybe the price was too high.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I read your post in another thread about being asked out by coworkers. It happens too much to be a coincidence. She is not putting out the Im married vibe. She may say no, but she doesn't discourage the asking. Also, doubtful she & OM were inseperable and the talk of the town & didn't do anything physical. Also she probably developed a rep from her notoriety of chasing and catching other man, even if you believe she did nothing, people still will talk. I'm sure she wasn't giving off a married vibe on that trip. 

Keep up what you're doing, it takes at least a year, maybe longer with the occasional asking out triggers. I would have a talk with her about that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

True enough, and guys, I AM working out. I have dropped 30 pounds off the scale in 9 months (and that was with heavy weight training). I've never looked better.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Will_Kane said:


> Did you see the texts between her and other man? Were they all rather bland, like "he looks bored" or were they more flirty than that? What did she admit to as far as her feelings for the other man? On the one hand, you seem to be saying all she did was have drinks with him every night and text him a lot, on the other hand, you are shaken to the core at her sexual interest in another man.
> 
> Did she admit to sexual interest in him, did you see texts to that effect, or are you just basing it on the sheer number of texts?


Yes I did see all of them. They were very much one-sided of my wife trying like hell to get his attention.

She admitted, after first the "we're just friends" bit, that she did find him sexually attractive.


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I am happy that you are recovering yourself well.

In gaining the confidence, not only will your wife turn to you, others as well.

The sooner you do, the better.

That confidence gives you the strength in letting her go, not actually but at a very different level. This is my experience.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> I've not posted my full story yet but last summer I caught my wife in the very early stages of a workplace A. Her company sent her and 14 others to their headquarters for an entire month and she stayed in a hotel. I was paying bills while she was gone and saw over 100 texts to some number I didn't recognize in the first two weeks she was gone, confronted, and smacked it down really hard.
> 
> She claims nothing more than drinks (a lot of nights of it) ever happened. But she spent every waking moment with this guy, catering to his needs, texting things like "he looks bored" while in the same room with him. I have no evidence to the contrary, and she has been truly remorseful, so I have no choice but to try to put aside my worst fears of what happened and accept her version of events. Her almost/possible OM was 10 years younger than I am, empircally handsome (think young Brendan Fraser), and really fit. I'm not ugly, but I am not the young hottie her OM was.
> 
> ...


Start by going into the gym. Get alcohol out of your diet. Clean up your diet. And go to the gym again the next day. I'd do at least 1 hrs a day mixed between cardio and weights.

Also add to your wardrobe some more fashionable and desireable clothing and shoes.

That will be a start, I wouldn't say a word about it.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> Inland, why not get in the best shape of your life? Do you know how to workout to build muscle? It takes about an hour a week at the gym. Most of it is eating, not exercising. Your SMV is going to be a lot higher than your wife's, if you're in shape. Like this guy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Machiavelli,

I was looking for another thread were you advertised raising your physical image to a level where the opposite sex cannot keep their eyes and hands off of.

It is a staggering level that really changes the tables.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Machiavelli,
> 
> I was looking for another thread were you advertised raising your physical image to a level where the opposite sex cannot keep their eyes and hands off of.
> 
> It is a staggering level that really changes the tables.


There is more to it than just physical improvement. As this thread indicates, the road back from infidelity goes far beyond how I look naked (which isn't too far of from what Mach is proposing.)


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> There is more to it than just physical improvement. As this thread indicates, the road back from infidelity goes far beyond how I look naked (which isn't too far of from what Mach is proposing.)


Which other parts are you seeing are going to go along with this?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

DaddyLongShanks said:


> Which other parts are you seeing are going to go along with this?


I quickly read NMMNG and MMSL and both have been totally eye-opening. I was so Beta before. Not always, but had become more so over the past couple of years as I was trying to support her in a demanding new role at work (became the laundry and dish b!tch). That's one of the things that snapped me out of my Beta Fog early on. The realization that while I was home with the kids, cooking and cleaning, she was in Chicago for a month, out in bars with that *********. That infuriated me.

So working on bringing back my Alpha. Figuring out that I was in many ways a Nice Guy, not clearly expressing my needs and establishing clear ground rules of what I will be willing to accept and not accept in a marriage.

I will say that not only did she snap to attention once she returned (and we had a rough summer getting to the bottom of what happened), but her attraction to me has grown exponentially.

Let me give you an example. I like most guys have a higher sex drive than the wife. So for years, I'd approach, she'd be tired from the kids, or sore, or whatever, and decline. Over time I just began to accept that when she was going to be okay with sex, she'd let me know. That is what is called in NMMNG a covert contract. I expected her to know my need for sex and comply without ever expressly telling her.

So I fixed that. Now I tell her we are going upstairs. Period. I text her in the morning to wear whatever outfit I'm in the mood to see her in. I TAKE her. I don't ask, like a lot of men, "Sweetie, love of my life, pretty please, will you play with my winkie?" (I wasn't that bad, but hell I think a lot of guys get to that point.)

And her reaction was amazing. Best sex of my marriage. Multiple times a day. I initiate. She complies. We are grabbing at each other all the time. The kids (teens) tell US to get a room. She tells me now she is more attracted to me than ever before. Why? Because I'm in control. That was so counter-intuitive to everything I ever learned about women in this liberated era. I thought they wanted full-on equals. My wife says that's a lie even women feel pressured to believe - she wants me to be the Captain. She's perfectly happy being the First Officer.

This thread may seem strange to you guys, because it sounds like things are good between my wife and I. And generally, we are. But those damn insecurities settle in every couple of weeks or so. I get suspicious for no reason. I suddenly want to replay the whole sordid thing. It's hell on me. I know I'm headed in the right direction but wonder why I still feel this way - empty and distrustful. Am I just being impatient?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Bottom line, guys. ALPHA. You MUST be at least half alpha for it to work long-term.

I wasn't. And nearly lost my family because the female I live with needs some alpha to make her juices flow. Yours does too.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Bottom line, guys. ALPHA. You MUST be at least half alpha for it to work long-term.
> 
> I wasn't. And nearly lost my family because the female I live with needs some alpha to make her juices flow. Yours does too.


Way to MAN up. Bravo, bravo!

How the hell did you transition from begging and pleading to lay with your own wife to TELLING her, come here now and being able to ravage her at will?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I think the first time I just really took her was the start of our R. I was angry. I remember just being overwhelmed and in a way, reclaiming what was mine. Afterward, she asked me why I was never like that before, because it ws such a turn on for her. She told me she had been waiting for me to initiate and had actually just been playing coy about it all the time. Maybe another fitness test? I told her I would not accept a low sex life anymore; she agreed. But she said it is not in her to do much initiating, so I needed to do it. I agreed, and just felt empowered to take charge. 

I do have to give a lot of credit to Athol Kay and his book and blog. He made sense of what I just sort of felt I needed to do as a man whose marriage was threatened. I went on the attack early. I strongly recommend MMSL. If Mr. Kay is lurking, I'd be honored to tell him what a difference his book has made for me.


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Inland,
your thread is going to be very helpful to the poor souls who come here bewildered after 15, 20, 25 years of a seemingly "ok" marriage and suddenly find themselves in a chaotic situation because of infidelity. Hope it is read often. And bumped periodically. 

Oh, your confidence will emerge if you continue with your current mindset.


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> Same company but halfway across the country. *It is highly unlikely they will meet up again, because this training was a one-off kind of thing.*
> 
> 
> They met at this training, stayed on the same hotel floor and shared a car together.* According the the text history of her and the other people in the class, they were seen as inseparable.*
> ...


*Here is what´s strike´s me as seriously odd
*
*You wrote*"*I tell you why I chose (my decision) to accept her version. *

*1) True, genuine, sobbing, snot-running, fetal-position remorse.* The fetal position strikes to me Very over the TOP for something , that was not as bad as she "think"

2) She immediately and fully complied with all of my demands for transparency and *removed this guy out of her world.
*
Removed, imply´s prior interaction´s. And also how quickly she ditched the guy.With out hesitation, and second thought.. Haven't seen that
in cases where like with your wife the ware inseparable for a whole month and where she cared for OM so much..


*She seriously need´s to quit that job ASAP


EDITED to say i just read your last post.And i´m glad for the improvements  But i still think it´s worth looking in to on what i wrote..Perhaps not James bond style...
*


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

According to her, she didn't care about him. She found him sexy. HUGE difference. Hers wasn't an EA- I think she flew away from a marriage to a slowly increasingly beta man, and found herself suddenly in the presence of basically nothing but alpha in this d-bag guy, and, just like MMSL predicted, the limbic system decided she might need a little strange.

I am convinced she did not go PA with him. I can never prove it, but I know my wife and I know what remorse looked like. 

I started my recovery by first studying my enemy (the OM), figuring out what he was that I lacked. It was a reconaissance mission in a way. He was a typical alpha pick-up artist - almost a stereotype. So I started there. New clothes, new wardrobe, dropped the flab. I can't be 30 again, so that was his only winning attribute. Everything else, I either had him beat or could catch up.

I didn't think about sex rank as a concept - I just knew I was going to out-play the player.


----------



## Summer4744 (Oct 15, 2012)

Inland. Have you ever thought of making her do a poly just for peace of mind? 

Did she try to trickle truth you at first?


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

InlandTXMM said:


> *According to her, she didn't care about him. * * She found him sexy. HUGE difference. Hers wasn't an EA*-And yet inseparable,for a month.And what was her point with all the hassle then? I think she flew away from a marriage to a slowly increasingly beta man, and found herself suddenly in the presence of basically nothing but alpha in this d-bag guy, and, just like MMSL predicted, the limbic system decided she might need a little strange.
> 
> *I am convinced she did not go PA with him*. I can never prove it, but I know my wife and I know what remorse looked like.
> 
> ...



I hope you are right on that. And if and i hope you are right..
As *typical alpha pick-up artist .He turned out he sucked at it..:rofl: *Look please understand am not trying to be one giant A hole here...But it´s just to much thta does not ad up,and not making any sense.. Just be careful. And keep doing what you do

Good luck


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Jonesey said:


> I hope you are right on that. And if and i hope you are right..
> As *typical alpha pick-up artist .He turned out he sucked at it..:rofl: *Look please understand am not trying to be one giant A hole here...But it´s just to much thta does not ad up,and not making any sense.. Just be careful. And keep doing what you do
> 
> Good luck


I will man! I trust but verify now. Probably always will.

Oh, and guys, twice last night. I insisted.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> I will man! I trust but verify now. Probably always will.
> 
> Oh, and guys, twice last night. I insisted.


Lucky guy. Taking care of yourself is not an option when you get married, it's a requirement. Way to man up.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> *I am convinced she did not go PA with him.* I can never prove it, but I know my wife and I know what remorse looked like.


Inland, you're doing well. I am impressed and you have my respect. However...this is called "self delusion."


----------



## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I agree with machia. How do you know that it did not go physical?


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

How was he the pickup artist when it was your wife that was chasing him? 

Was it an EA because he refused?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Again, guys, I can never know for sure. I have her word and no text message gave any indication of sex. Yet they had a month together. So no, I can never know for sure. That's why I finally, after exhausting my options and raking her over coals for months looking for a change in story, talked to others who were with that group, etc. No one saw anything but a woman trying way awfully hard to get the guy's attention. It seemed very one-sided. That part hurt maybe worse than anything. It wasn't like she could have used the "one thing led to another" defense. This was her chasing him.

Guys I am not self-deluded. I am very much aware. You just reach a point of decision, where you say, "Okay, which direction do I go?" I decided that 20 years counts for something. Like it says in Ecclesiastes, there is a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather them. So I decided I had taken my time to be furious, and now it was time to lay the sword down and take the high road.

Winston Churchill said a man is only as big as the thing that makes him angry. I needed to get the "what-ifs" out of my mind, and put the OM far beneath what would get me angry, or he'd beat me forever. That's where I am right now. Not 100% sure, and never will be. I decided to use this f*cking awful experience to learn about me, fix what I found lacking, try like hell to bulletproof this marriage, and then face my uncertain future. If I didn't, I might have been victimized by this thing for years to come.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

Daft side-thought.

Why so angry with OM? If she was pursuing him, and he _didn't_ take advantage, I'd have thought that was actually in his favour?
I mean, some woman throws herself at you, and you're pleasant, friendly, but with all that time, alcohol and enabling environment going for you if you want it - for a single guy to say no suggests he's probably not all that bad ....

... no?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Again, guys, I can never know for sure. I have her word and no text message gave any indication of sex. Yet they had a month together. So no, I can never know for sure. That's why I finally, after exhausting my options and raking her over coals for months looking for a change in story, talked to others who were with that group, etc. No one saw anything but a woman trying way awfully hard to get the guy's attention. It seemed very one-sided. That part hurt maybe worse than anything. It wasn't like she could have used the "one thing led to another" defense. This was her chasing him.
> 
> Guys I am not self-deluded. I am very much aware. You just reach a point of decision, where you say, "Okay, which direction do I go?" I decided that 20 years counts for something. Like it says in Ecclesiastes, there is a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather them. So I decided I had taken my time to be furious, and now it was time to lay the sword down and take the high road.
> 
> Winston Churchill said a man is only as big as the thing that makes him angry. I needed to get the "what-ifs" out of my mind, and put the OM far beneath what would get me angry, or he'd beat me forever. That's where I am right now. Not 100% sure, and never will be. I decided to use this f*cking awful experience to learn about me, fix what I found lacking, try like hell to bulletproof this marriage, and then face my uncertain future. If I didn't, I might have been victimized by this thing for years to come.


This is a legitimate response, IMHO. You seem to have your eyes open. What is your intel program?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Rags said:


> Daft side-thought.
> 
> Why so angry with OM? If she was pursuing him, and he _didn't_ take advantage, I'd have thought that was actually in his favour?
> I mean, some woman throws herself at you, and you're pleasant, friendly, but with all that time, alcohol and enabling environment going for you if you want it - for a single guy to say no suggests he's probably not all that bad ....
> ...


Exactly. There is no rational reason other than beta-male, nice-guy jealousy to hate the other guy. That was really early on in the recovery process. I found myself way over-competitive with him. I tried to see what he had that I didn't. It was reconnaissance on an enemy camp.

And it wasn't healthy.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Machiavelli said:


> This is a legitimate response, IMHO. You seem to have your eyes open. What is your intel program?


I have all passwords to everything, including work email. I monitor the phone. Nothing can be deleted without my okay. All of these guys are blocked from her phone and FB.

No male friends for her. NONE. We can go out together or with other married couples, but there are no divorced / single girl night outs. And ABSOLUTELY no male friends. Unless he is flamboyantly gay, he's off limits. She has me for "guy time".

I have a keylogger on her PC and on the phone. I have a VAR that I've stopped using regularly but can return it on a moment's notice if need be.

She also agreed voluntarily to inform me of any interactions or future attempts by males at work to let me deal with them personally. I have already - in December, one of the three POS guys from her company texted her literally in the middle of our anniversary dinner, saying "What are you doing?" She saw who it was and immediately became upset, because she had not been talking to this guy at all. He tried to get her to go have drinks with him that past summer, she declined, and then he'd text her on national holidays (can you imagine "Happy Labor Day!" showing up from some schmuck guy on your wife's phone? It happened). She never responded to any of them so a text right in the middle of our dinner together came up out of the blue. My only guess on his timing was he stalked her FB page and saw it was our anniversary and wanted to run interference. So I told her from now on, I would do the honor of telling these MFers to stay away from my wife, since they weren't taking her seriously.

I called the number, and he answered. I told him I am the husband of the married woman he is pursuing, and he is to forget she even exists from this moment forward. He was silent, I said if I find out he has contacted her in any way, he will be meeting me in person when he least expected it, and asked him if he understood. He quietly said, "Yes." And I hung up.

He hasn't tried again.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Strange, he did not deny his intentions(which is guys like him will probably do when confronted.)


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

warlock07 said:


> Strange, he did not deny his intentions(which is guys like him will probably do when confronted.)


No, just sat there silently. That's how I knew his intentions, honestly. If it were me and I was being falsely accused, I would have raised hell itself to clear my name.


----------



## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Inland, how's life? You doin' OK?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Life is good, guys. Thanks for asking. I spent time on my sailboat on Sat, the wife and I spent all day Friday together, and even had a date night last week. Trust is definitely coming back. I still trigger (reading other guys' stories here is one of the worst triggers, btw), but it happens really infrequently right now.

As a (novice) sailor, I've learned a life lesson that applies here: you cannot control the wind, but you can change the sails.


----------



## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Just a quick word. These words Alpha and Beta to me are all nonsense!! Absolute tripe!!

Nothing wrong with being a nice guy or being considerate, or polite. What's wrong is being disrespected or the respect you show to others not being reciprocated or plain just being taken advantage of.

When that happens that's when the hammer should come down because disrespect should not be tolerated on any level.

I hear people talking "I was such a nice guy, I was so beta.." buzz words being thrown around. You're not in trouble because you were a nice guy, you're in trouble because when the disrespect started you probably avoided confrontation, instead of putting the hammer down. People then try to manipulate the situation by being too nice, trying to a)guilt trip the person with niceness and consideration
b)Taking some faux moral high ground

Don't stop being nice fellas. Just don't take any bull!


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

All the words are is a way to group characteristics into categories.

I hate the word "player", for instance, but it is used to group common characteristics and attributes. So what?

You are right that it is about respect and boundaries. The group called "Nice Guys" are basically those men who have no boundaries.


----------



## DaddyLongShanks (Nov 6, 2012)

It's OK to be a "good guy", when we use the word "nice guy", it's meaning you are giving more than you can/should, no boundaries like he said. You end up "doormatted".


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

I actually categorize them like you do.

"Good Guy" is a man of principle and character, friendly and giving, but from a position of strength. Good guys respect others AND themselves. A good guy can say "no" when he needs to. There is NOTHING wrong and in fact, much right with being a "good guy".

"Nice Guy" is a weak, desperate man who goes about doing for others, not out of generosity, but for the pat on the head he needs so badly. A Nice Guy can never say no - they just resent being asked. Nice Guys are a$$kissers, doormats, and as Mrs. Slocombe would say, "Weak as water."


----------



## Dunder (Apr 3, 2013)

Hello, I am new here, reading...
Inland, buddy, the only thing you had to do is DTB. That's it. The other guy has nothing to do with it. He is not married to you. Your wife is. And yes, I am 99.99% sure they had sex.
20 years together? It's time for a change. She did her request for this. Now it is your turn. DTB, man. 
The fact that she just deleted that guy from her life immediately tells alot. If he was "just a friend" - then what's the point for her to do that? 
Man up, dude, dump her. The sooner you will do that, the happier you will be later. 
And-if you still think they did not sleep - fine. But there's one thing - physical affair is just a sex, easy to forget, mistake of the moment. Emotional affair - is betrayal.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey all - I haven''t been on here much because I found out that I was triggering all the time and really wasn't in a good enough place yet to visit other people's stories without reliving my own every single time.

Things are good- great even. I continue to work out, do my own thing, grow my business. My wife is solidly in the marriage, following my rules about phones and passwords, and completely understanding of any questions or concerns I have. Occasionally, I'll get a bit of anger, like when she tells me I don't have to work out so much - she doesn't need a super-buff guy (to which I've snapped back with things like, "Oh really? You did a year ago.")

A year on, what I now take from this whole experience - this life-changing experience - is that love must be action, not emotion. You don't "feel" love for someone - you set about TO love that person. 

I think, reading this thread, and the harshness of my comments in other threads, that I was still hurting and at times, furious at the loss of the life I once had. My marriage was reconciling, but I was not doing what I needed to do to heal internally.

And, like the scriptures say, there is a season for everything. I needed a season of anger and hurt, and a time of picking up the sword to defend my honor, my family, and my manhood. I did that instinctively when the A first came to light, but didn't know how to let that fighting spirit go.

But the same scriptures tell us there comes a season to lay the sword back down. I began to fear that I would never put it down again around my wife, so I had to choose to finally really reconcile. I decided to stop my surveillance, stop coming here to feed the beast of my own insecurities and anger, and just take up and re-acquaint myself with this beautiful woman who said, "Yes" to me 20 years ago this year. The last 3 or 4 months have finally brought real healing, and though I'm not 100% yet, I'm far closer than I was when I started this thread.

Thank you all for all the insight and tough love this site provides. It's truly a gift of love for the poor souls who find themselves torn apart by infidelity. I'm glad to be part of it.


----------



## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Having just read all of this thread I can relate in so many ways to the feelings and emotions felt.

I am in the middle of my own R with my WW and I often feel the same, deflated and a little confused about "why"??? But I suppose I should also heed some of the advice given here as it makes perfect sense really, yes my W is my world and it was rocked violently by her actions but I wonder if I had other things to focus on outside would it lessen the damage and help me to rebuild my own self esteem and to heal quicker without dependencies on my W to support me?

Funny how like so many we all have endured the same emotions and are not alone, I find help and comfort here, Thank you.


----------



## GreenThumb (Jul 5, 2013)

I, like you, are dealing with self-esteem, something I have never struggled with in the past. My intellectual self says that the A was about his self-esteem, but my emotional self cycles back to comparing myself with the OW who is 17 years my junior, 19 years his junior. There is no way in Hades I can, nor do I wish to compete with that. My intellectual self knows I am a healthy, vibrant, attractive, educated woman quickly approaching 50 who genuinely knows that what I bring to the table is far more important than anything she did and/or could offer. I believe my WH now knows that, but I truly believe that time, IC and MC will help me "see" more clearly. For me, each day can be a battle between the intellectual and the emotional and I suspect that is the "wave" effect you mentioned. 

Take care of yourself as the others have suggested and I wish you the best of luck in your R.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Hey all - I haven''t been on here much because I found out that I was triggering all the time and really wasn't in a good enough place yet to visit other people's stories without reliving my own every single time.
> 
> Things are good- great even. I continue to work out, do my own thing, grow my business. My wife is solidly in the marriage, following my rules about phones and passwords, and completely understanding of any questions or concerns I have. Occasionally, I'll get a bit of anger, like when she tells me I don't have to work out so much - she doesn't need a super-buff guy (to which I've snapped back with things like, "Oh really? You did a year ago.")
> 
> ...


Inland:
Your beast of insecurities and anger was created by none other than that beautiful woman you reference above. You talk a lot in your thread on how you have changed after her affair - how has she changed? Did you guys start MC?


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

Hey didn't see your question until now.

She has changed in every way MMSL and NMMNG predicted she would - she is back physically and mentally in love with me. She's "all in" like I've never seen her.

I fixed the marriage, in huge part, by becoming strong enough as an individual to live without it. When she saw that I was suddenly thinner, buffer, more confident, and most importantly, able to let go of her entirely, she came racing back to my side.

I can't speak enough good for the mindset MMSL gives you. My wife fell for a douchy young alpha male wannabe while her loving hubby was back home folding towels and panties in the evenings while she worked. When I suddenly (and instinctively) called BS on this EA, laid down law about her GNO's or male friends away from the marriage, full disclosure, etc. she responded immediately and submissively.

She needed and wanted me to man up and be the man she fell in love with. I, like so many others, went all beta and supportive and timid on her. I gave up my friends and my interests. I had no "man cave" in the home. I asked to spend any money. That kind of crap which is fundamentally going to switch off a woman's sex drive. MMSL reinforced that I was doing the right things already to fix this, and it's been a complete 180 for both of us.

We didn't do marriage counseling but we have both left it on the table and agreed that if either of us wants it in the future, we will do it. We also call a "state of the marriage" meeting once a month, just to let gripes out and talk issues through as a team. Also, something we hadn't done in years - date night every other week.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Hey didn't see your question until now.
> 
> She has changed in every way MMSL and NMMNG predicted she would - she is back physically and mentally in love with me. She's "all in" like I've never seen her.
> 
> ...


whoa!! I was ready to be a bit critical of your (what I thought was a) much too forgiving/too quickly attitude about her. But the R you describe seems to have so much thought and 'energy' behind it.......you've disarmed me!

what about the tittle of the thread - the self esteem part? Earlier you had said that at times the marriage was doing well but YOU were not. Has that now returned to you fully - your confidence, self-esteem, self-image etc??


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

It wavers. If I see a guy who looks like the other guy, I feel that pang of inadequacy. He looked nothing like me - he's a really "pretty boy" - think young Brendan Fraser - and I am 11 years older than he is, so it punches me in the gut a little because there are some things about him I can't compete with. I'm by no means unattractive, just not "him". That always bugs me a little.

Understand that I come from an orientation where I didn't have a great body image to begin with. I was not "fat" but was a chubby kid and still kind of see myself through those eyes, even though I'm in pretty good shape now. I think, now that I have some distance from the A and my feelings then, the self-esteem damage this caused wasn't so much a new wound, but a re-opening of an old one.

Most of the time I'm good - especially because I took the advice of MMSL and increased my own sex ranking to what I now feel is slightly above my wife. I now engage women around me in a social way, slightly flirty but never forward. Before I would NEVER do that out of respect for my wife, but I know that other men make moves on her a lot, and it's important for her to see that just like her, I have lots of options, too.

I think Athol Kay describes it in MMSL as "destabilizing the marriage". That's crucial.

When we take each other for granted for too long, the marriage festers and it's easy for a third party to worm their way in. If instead, I'm on my game as much as she is, we both realize we have something significant at stake if we let things go again. We have to keep ourselves attractive, not just FOR our spouse, but in spite of our spouse. If that makes any sense.


----------



## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

Inland:
I've read your thread with great interest. Earlier you weren't sure if her affair went physical. she sweared not. any more information on that one way or the other? would it matter to you if it actually was a short PA? i.e. would you forgive her and reconcile, as you're doing now, regardless? Have you warned her on what happens if she were to cheat again?


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

InlandTXMM said:


> Thanks guys. I do work out - 5 days a week. Lost over 30 pounds. It clears my head but doesn't give me a sense of accomplishment or pride.


It will when you're out with the FWW and young girls give you the long and slow right in front of her.


----------



## InlandTXMM (Feb 15, 2013)

nuclearnightmare said:


> Inland:
> I've read your thread with great interest. Earlier you weren't sure if her affair went physical. she sweared not. any more information on that one way or the other? would it matter to you if it actually was a short PA? i.e. would you forgive her and reconcile, as you're doing now, regardless? Have you warned her on what happens if she were to cheat again?


Hey thanks for your comments.

To answer, no, I have no more evidence of an affair, no evidence that her original story was any worse than what I first heard, and nothing from her that shows any secrecy or hiding.

Whether or not it was a short PA would matter to me for several reasons, the most important being that she is adamant that it was not. If I learned back then that she screwed up and it was a PA, it would have been harder to forgive, but I believe if her remorse and willingness to do whatever I needed to reconcile was as strong as she showed me, I would have been eventually able to get over it. 

What would be totally unacceptable is for her to have had a hundred times so far to come completely clean, and didn't. So if I now found out it was more than what I had to deal with already, it would be unforgivable.

She has had two ultimatums put to her over the last year, and I am deadly serious about both:

1) During the early days of R, she got one chance to tell me the whole and complete truth. If I later found out anything was kept from me, we're finished.

2) Obviously she is going to be approached by men and obviously she is going to find other men attractive from time to time, but ANY effort to engage them socially without my knowledge is now cheating. No FB chats, no lunches alone, no texting. We never needed or discussed a boundary about opposite-sex friends or co-workers before this. Now there are no "guy friends" of my wife's. There are guy friends of us as a couple, but her days of having male pals is behind her.

The past year we did a lot of growing as a couple, but the biggest changes have been in me. I was one of those guys who said it'll never happen to me. I now understand that I was placing an impossibly high standard on my wife - that she was "too good" to ever be tempted or played. That's one of the fundamental ways I've changed. So instead of romantic, dreamy "we'll always be together" stuff of my earlier marriage, it's now more of "I choose to be with you, but don't you ever make me doubt that again."


----------



## AlphaProvider (Jul 8, 2013)

InlandTXMM said:


> Hey thanks for your comments.
> 
> To answer, no, I have no more evidence of an affair, no evidence that her original story was any worse than what I first heard, and nothing from her that shows any secrecy or hiding.
> 
> Whether or not it was a short PA would matter to me for several reasons, the most important being that she is adamant that it was not. If I learned back then that she screwed up and it was a PA, it would have been harder to forgive, but I believe if her remorse and willingness to do whatever I needed to reconcile was as strong as she showed me, I would have been eventually able to get over it.


This sounds like the only way to do it, as any other way you could not be successful.




InlandTXMM said:


> What would be totally unacceptable is for her to have had a hundred times so far to come completely clean, and didn't. So if I now found out it was more than what I had to deal with already, it would be unforgivable.
> 
> She has had two ultimatums put to her over the last year, and I am deadly serious about both:
> 
> ...


The #2 boundary... It's one this day and age which is considered normal. Much of that communication and chummy behavior ( texting, male work lunches, alone time, etc ) happens and it's not communicated to the other spouse.



InlandTXMM said:


> The past year we did a lot of growing as a couple, but the biggest changes have been in me. I was one of those guys who said it'll never happen to me. I now understand that I was placing an impossibly high standard on my wife - that she was "too good" to ever be tempted or played. That's one of the fundamental ways I've changed. So instead of romantic, dreamy "we'll always be together" stuff of my earlier marriage, it's now more of "I choose to be with you, but don't you ever make me doubt that again."


I'm glad you guys are growing.


----------

