# I am an Almost Walk-Away-Wife



## ZimaBlue

For many years I have been unhappy. Whether my husband realises exactly how unhappy, I do not know. But something clicked this week-end, and I realised I have been on this path for many many years. So I found this forum and found out about walk-away-wife syndrome, as I am sure many of you are already aware. It was pretty scary, but reassuring that I wasn't going mad. 

There are reasons, which I won't go into detail here just yet, unless anyone thinks they're relevant, as to why I am unhappy with the way my husband behaves. 

I really want a way out, or some way to in fact communicate that unhappiness to my husband without him going immediately on the defensive out of fear, or - as is the case 99% of the time - just ignoring me, or immediately misinterpreting it as 'nagging'. 

I am probably partly to blame for putting up with the way he behaves for so long - but it has come to point now that I don't see why I should have to any longer. Call it a midlife crisis, or whatever you want. The trigger comes when you try and imagine what your life will be when you're 60/70 and you have nothing to show for your life other than unhappiness and regret. 

I understand if there are any replies, they may be from husbands who have suffered from their wives doing this - my research shows that they don't see it coming. If there are, and you didn't - how would you have preferred your wife to have communicated this to you? 

I don't mind, I would rather know what people think, so go right ahead, don't hold back. There may also be some people out there who have done it and think it's the best decision they ever made. 

Any input would be welcome at this stage. 

Background - married 8 1/2 years, together for 19, no kids.


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## KhienHan

ZimaBlue said:


> For many years I have been unhappy. Whether my husband realises exactly how unhappy, I do not know.
> 
> Background - married 8 1/2 years, together for 19, no kids.


Well, ZimaBlue, both of you together for 19 years, is a great achievement...

However, have you share your unhappiness with your husband? Did you tell him your feeling? I guess no, because you are not sure whether my husband realizes exactly how unhappy you are.

Many men, including me, take it as granted after long years being together. And you also cannot assume your husband must understand you just because of 19 years.

Share with him and talk to him about your feeling seriously.


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## southbound

You refer to yourself as a possible "walk-away-wife," or having a mid-life crisis, so I assume you have no issues that most would call big issues, and your husband probably doesn't realize how unhappy you are. I had a walk-away-wife, so I know how it feels.

To answer your question about communication, I would have preferred my x wife had communicated her issues to me as seriously as they were to her before they became a problem. If a hurricane is brewing, don't act like it's light rain shower, because I don't pay much attention to those. 

Also, I'm a very concrete person. I think my wife expected me to mind read, and interpret a lot of things, whereas, I take things as they appear. She said that after 18 years, I should have known what she needed, but shouldn't she have known me just as well? Shouldn't she have seen that I was laid back and was concrete. So, why did she not know what it took to truly get my attention. I also agree with KhienHan that I took it for granted after 18 years. 

I mean, who expects to divorce after what seems like a normal 18 year marriage? Why not decide a mistake was made early on. If it takes 18 years, then there are surely a lot of good things that kept her hanging on. I guess us guys just don't understand the concept of; I'm a good provider, a good person, good father, and wouldn't cheat if a gun was to my head, do more than my share of the chores, yet somehow my wife still found a way to be unhappy. 

I think the reason I didn't see it coming was because the things that she said made her unhappy wouldn't have even registered with me if she were doing them or not doing them toward me, so, I didn't see a problem. 

ZimaBlue, if I seem a little edgy, it's not toward you, I'm just giving my situation and hope it helps.


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## rj700

ZimaBlue said:


> I am probably partly to blame for putting up with the way he behaves for so long - but it has come to point now that I don't see why I should have to any longer.


You shouldn't have to put up with it any longer. But you have for so many years - you've trained him to think it is ok. You've trained yourself to accept it - taking the easier path, the one of least resistance. So now you are thinking the easier path is just to walk away. It probably is the path of least resistance. Perhaps you could fight for your own happiness. Even if you lose the battle with him, you might learn some valuable lessons for your future happiness. You definitely shouldn't stay with the status quo. But what's the downside to giving it an *honest* try?


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## KhienHan

southbound said:


> You refer to yourself as a possible "walk-away-wife," or having a mid-life crisis, so I assume you have no issues that most would call big issues, and your husband probably doesn't realize how unhappy you are. I had a walk-away-wife, so I know how it feels.
> 
> To answer your question about communication, I would have preferred my x wife had communicated her issues to me as seriously as they were to her before they became a problem. If a hurricane is brewing, don't act like it's light rain shower, because I don't pay much attention to those.
> 
> Also, I'm a very concrete person. I think my wife expected me to mind read, and interpret a lot of things, whereas, I take things as they appear. She said that after 18 years, I should have known what she needed, but shouldn't she have known me just as well? Shouldn't she have seen that I was laid back and was concrete. So, why did she not know what it took to truly get my attention. I also agree with KhienHan that I took it for granted after 18 years.
> 
> I mean, who expects to divorce after what seems like a normal 18 year marriage? Why not decide a mistake was made early on. If it takes 18 years, then there are surely a lot of good things that kept her hanging on. I guess us guys just don't understand the concept of; I'm a good provider, a good person, good father, and wouldn't cheat if a gun was to my head, do more than my share of the chores, yet somehow my wife still found a way to be unhappy.
> 
> I think the reason I didn't see it coming was because the things that she said made her unhappy wouldn't have even registered with me if she were doing them or not doing them toward me, so, I didn't see a problem.
> 
> ZimaBlue, if I seem a little edgy, it's not toward you, I'm just giving my situation and hope it helps.


Southbound, so sad to read your advise and story. Sorry, do you mind to share with me, if you have a second chance, will you repeat the same thing to your ex-wife? Because based on your experience, it can give some hints and helps to ZimaBlue.


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## Runs like Dog

I have been listening to this sort of thing here for 2 years and I'm baffled. WaW boiled down to its barest elements is "I'm silently fuming at you and hate you and won't cooperate with you in the least until you learn to be more obedient and do not only whatever I say but more importantly whatever I don't say and only think about in my own head but as long as I don't have to budge a single millimeter or take ownership in any way for anything least of all my own life and my happiness in it, we'll be fine'.

Because I finally had to spin up a fistful of google searches on psychology today and 20 other 'professional' websites and blogs about marriages and relationships. And in the final analysis the comments by and large were "You GO girl!!! You'd be amazed the change you can force on him..!"

Which I suppose is ok if you're planning on being the leader of a cult.


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## hookares

If you think you will be around in your seventies and regret how your life progressed while in a unhappy marriage, be aware that you can do this alone, just as well.


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## southbound

Runs like Dog said:


> I have been listening to this sort of thing here for 2 years and I'm baffled. WaW boiled down to its barest elements is "I'm silently fuming at you and hate you and won't cooperate with you in the least until you learn to be more obedient and do not only whatever I say but more importantly whatever I don't say and only think about in my own head but as long as I don't have to budge a single millimeter or take ownership in any way for anything least of all my own life and my happiness in it, we'll be fine'.
> 
> Because I finally had to spin up a fistful of google searches on psychology today and 20 other 'professional' websites and blogs about marriages and relationships. And in the final analysis the comments by and large were "You GO girl!!! You'd be amazed the change you can force on him..!"
> 
> Which I suppose is ok if you're planning on being the leader of a cult.


I feel similar in having to do all the research. If one has to be a psychologist to know how to be in a relationship, how can that work? If my x wife was acting normally, why didn't I catch on to what she wanted? I'm not a bad guy. It wasn't my life's mission to make someone miserable, just the opposite. I didn't wake up every morning thinking, "How can i make my life wonderful regardless of how she feels." 

i was raised to be very logical-minded, which i thought was a good thing, but perhaps not so much in a relationship. I suppose if someone had asked me to list things that would make my marriage a fairytale, I could have put some things on a list, but just because I didn't have them, I felt like "so what," this is real life. Why would I be unhappy.

Not so many years ago, I often heard it mentioned that people get in trouble because they expect their marriage to be like the movies, but it seems like that is what people think is normal today. Sure, there are marriages like that of SimplyAmoras, but just because we don't all fit that category, should we all be miserable? i don't think so.


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## KathyBatesel

The whole idea that someone walks away when "there's no truly major reason present" is one I can't accept. I think there *is* a major reason! "I feel worthless, ignored, and helpless" is a pretty dang GOOD reason to make changes, in my opinion. 

I think that what leads up to that is a basic discomfort with confrontation. To avoid discomfort, some people avoid dealing with those topics to varying degrees. One person might listen, say all the right things, and promptly forget the promises they made. Another might behave in a way that discourages conversations on such topics. And so on... 

Zima, what I hope you can understand is that you're both being avoidant. You said you don't know if your husband knows how unhappy you are. This tells me that you have backed off when he gets defensive and have never really gotten to core issues when they matter. 

You need to make changes, but is there a reason you can't start with taking action at home - before walking out? If you'd like to find that happiness, I would encourage you to adopt a couple of practices for at least the next four months before deciding to chuck everything: 

1. Start requiring yourself to be honest with yourself about your feelings rather than trying to stuff them inside.

2. When something makes you unhappy, find a way to do something about it every single time. That doesn't mean to go criticize your husband. It means that you need to evaluate which one of these methods will restore the level of happiness you need: 
--- Changing your own perspective about the issue
--- Giving a clear behavioral response that lets you feel better without hurting anyone else's rights
--- Having a conversation 

For right now, it might be a good idea to tell your husband, "I have something important to talk to you about, and it's probably going to be a difficult conversation. When can you find 30 minutes in your schedule today or tomorrow so we can sit down together?" 

When it arrives, start off with by repeating that you recognize this will be hard for him to hear and for you to say. Tell him you're sorry about creating discomfort, but that it's a necessary pain - like cleaning a wound before applying a bandage, because you're unhappy and thinking about leaving the marriage. 

Don't explain why you're unhappy at this point. First, take a look at the reaction you're seeing in your husband. What does his posture look like? What facial expression do you see when he's not speaking? Does he appear closed off? Does he look like he's trying to shrink into the cushions? Is he wearing a mask of stoicism to hide the way he feels? 

You'll need to be sensitive to unspoken signals of his discomfort and when you see them, offer him reassurance and positive regard until he can get back to a mind set that allows him to really hear you. Examples of reassurances: 

-- I know you want me to be happy, and I trust you. I know that you don't ever try to hurt me. 
-- I know you are strong emotionally. I envy that about you. I'm not feeling strong right now, and need your help. 
-- You're a great provider, and I appreciate that. I'd like to ask for your help in providing something that you may never have thought about before. 

You MUST create safety in order for your husband to feel safe enough to listen to you, because he senses an attack and protects himself. Whether you're really attacking or not is irrelevant. If he thinks one is there, then he's going to self-protect even if his perception is wrong. 

Once you've created a good zone of safety, you can address the problems you're having. You may have to stop to recreate safety sometimes, and it can take a lot of practice to have even one healthy conversation. With enough practice, you can create an intimate connection that allows you both to find connection and harmony on an ongoing basis. 

As you're addressing problems, you MUST be aware that criticizing HIM or blaming him removes safety and drives a wedge in between you. This means if you want to say, "I feel unimportant because you ignore me so much," you must reframe it to keep blame out. "I feel unimportant these days. When I try to say something and you say I'm nagging you, my thoughts make me believe that I'm worthless to you. Am I worthless to you?" Notice how "my thoughts" are making me believe instead of what he does? This can take the attack out of attacking a problem.

I hope this helps you start approaching your man in a way that can help the two of you hang on to something that has been reasonably good for a long time.


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## deejov

Everyone has their dealbreakers.

But everyone also has a bit of a responsibility to firstly know what those are, and communicate them to your spouse.

And yes, things can change over time. Because we change as people. Priorities change, too.


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## Emerald

Try writing him a letter expressing your feelings.


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## southbound

KathyBatesel said:


> The whole idea that someone walks away when "there's no truly major reason present" is one I can't accept. I think there *is* a major reason! "I feel worthless, ignored, and helpless" is a pretty dang GOOD reason to make changes, in my opinion. .


I see what you mean, but isn't there a point where one should consider whether the typical person would find the reasons valid, and if not, shouldn't we look within ourselves an determine if the problem is more us than them? One doesn't usually get sent to prison for going 2 miles over the speed limit, and wouldn't most feel that was making too much of the situation?

For example, i like to sing. I like karaoke or getting with people who play guitar and letting it rip. I would have enjoyed it if my x wife would have joined in, but singing wasn't her thing. So, should I have pondered on that over the years and convinced myself that i was unhappy and said to myself, "She must not love me because she won't even try, and file for divorce?" I think that would have been a bit off. 

I don't know everyone's situation, and I'm not trying to throw slurs at anyone, I'm just expressing my situation and my views. To be honest, some of my wife's things were actually in a similar category as the singing thing. 



deejov said:


> Everyone has their dealbreakers.
> 
> But everyone also has a bit of a responsibility to firstly know what those are, and communicate them to your spouse.
> 
> And yes, things can change over time. Because we change as people. Priorities change, too.


I agree, but if someone were asked to make a list of deal breakers before they married, i wonder how many would actually list the things that they often end up leaving over? 

I know people change. I thought people "settled down" a bit as they got older instead of putting it in high gear; that's the examples i saw as i was growing up. Heck, if my x had told me she wanted a lot of vacations and such when we were 25, it might have made sense, but why go for years without it seeming like a big deal, and then it become a big deal when we're 40?


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## Plan 9 from OS

OP, I think you should share with the rest of us what exactly the issues that you are having with your husband. I think they would be relevant in order to recommend some future course of action to either try to save your marriage or to help you move on with your life. We've all had diverse experiences ranging from spouses with no sex drive, spouses with too high of a sex drive, spouses who are doormats, spouses who are stubborn, aggressive, lazy, workaholics, drinkers, smokers, prudes, etc, etc... You get the point. I would hate to try to give advice about something unknown that may end up being too benign if your situation is very serious or too over the top if your situation is actually something that might be easy to fix.


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## southbound

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OP, I think you should share with the rest of us what exactly the issues that you are having with your husband. I think they would be relevant in order to recommend some future course of action to either try to save your marriage or to help you move on with your life. We've all had diverse experiences ranging from spouses with no sex drive, spouses with too high of a sex drive, spouses who are doormats, spouses who are stubborn, aggressive, lazy, workaholics, drinkers, smokers, prudes, etc, etc... You get the point. I would hate to try to give advice about something unknown that may end up being too benign if your situation is very serious or too over the top if your situation is actually something that might be easy to fix.


True. The title reads "wal-away-wife," and I just define that as a wife who walks away for petty reasons like my wife did, but the OP, and many others, may have more serious issues.


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## bfree

You have been with this man for 19 years so obviously there was something about him that you loved at one time. We all change as we age and we begin to value different things as we grow but how is he supposed to know your feelings and/or values have changed unless you tell him? Pardon me if I am too blunt but I personally feel that leaving your husband without allowing him to fight for you and your marriage is not only cowardly but extremely selfish. Would you want to be treated that way?


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## MattMatt

There is something that I call "Nearest Human Syndrome" (NHS) in which a person with general problems and issues tends to blame these on the Nearest Human.

As a child there is a tendency for people to blame their parents when things go wrong in their lives. "If only my parents understood me!" "It is my mom's/dad's fault that I am miserable!" "If only they had done x, y, z, everything would be wonderful!"

My wife has NHS. Every-so-often she will come home or I will come home from work and even before I am in the door she will say: "What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you in such a foul mood?" Which often caused an argument, as I had not been in a foul mood.

After several years I cottoned on to the fact that my wife would do this when she had had an argument with a work mate,a woman in a shop, etc. 

She would bottle this up, let in rankle with her all day, and let rip at the Nearest Human later on, which of course, is me, as we live together with no children.

Yet she genuinely believes that it is all my fault.

I learned to ignore these attempts to goad me into a fight.

OP, do you do this? Do you blame your husband for stuff that happens that are not really his fault?

There's also Blame Seeker Syndrome when a person cannot just accept that stuff happens and needs to go NHS and blame the Nearest Human for whatever stuff has happened.

My mother had a theory about this, she mentioned to me years ago that some parents were setting their children up for this when a child is clumsy or just trips up as it is not yet used to walking, the parents will chastise the chair the child hurt itself on saying: "naughty chair! You hurt x!" they will then sometimes pretend to punish the chair.

This, my mother theorised, makes children seek out something, or someone, to blame, when stuff goes wrong, later. And guess what? If there's nobody else but husband or wife nearby, why, it is the Nearest Human that gets the blame!

It's possible your husband does need to change his ways. But if he were a mind reader, he'd have done this years ago.


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## KanDo

Interesting. Here is a thread that was started with essentually no information about what the issues are. No statement of facts. No discussion of conflict and yet advise is being given.......

OP. If you would like considered advice, perhaps you can enlighten us on what the real problems are? 

Unhappiness doesn't necessarily go away with the dissolution of a marriage if the marriage or partner isn't the root problem....... You may just find yourself unhappy AND alone.


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## Ten_year_hubby

ZimaBlue said:


> I understand if there are any replies, they may be from husbands who have suffered from their wives doing this - my research shows that they don't see it coming. If there are, and you didn't - how would you have preferred your wife to have communicated this to you?
> 
> I don't mind, I would rather know what people think, so go right ahead, don't hold back. There may also be some people out there who have done it and think it's the best decision they ever made.
> 
> Any input would be welcome at this stage.
> 
> Background - married 8 1/2 years, together for 19, no kids.


After being with someone for 19 years, it's almost inevitable that you focus on their bad points while ignoring their good. Over time the constant internal dialog focusing on his faults becomes compelling and causes you to predict a negative future for him.

Your thoughts rule your feeling. If you choose to continue to allow yourself to indulge in your negative thinking eventually you will have nothing but negative feelings


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## KathyBatesel

southbound said:


> I see what you mean, but isn't there a point where one should consider whether the typical person would find the reasons valid, and if not, shouldn't we look within ourselves an determine if the problem is more us than them? One doesn't usually get sent to prison for going 2 miles over the speed limit, and wouldn't most feel that was making too much of the situation?
> 
> For example, i like to sing. I like karaoke or getting with people who play guitar and letting it rip. I would have enjoyed it if my x wife would have joined in, but singing wasn't her thing. So, should I have pondered on that over the years and convinced myself that i was unhappy and said to myself, "She must not love me because she won't even try, and file for divorce?" I think that would have been a bit off.
> 
> I don't know everyone's situation, and I'm not trying to throw slurs at anyone, I'm just expressing my situation and my views. To be honest, some of my wife's things were actually in a similar category as the singing thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but if someone were asked to make a list of deal breakers before they married, i wonder how many would actually list the things that they often end up leaving over?
> 
> I know people change. I thought people "settled down" a bit as they got older instead of putting it in high gear; that's the examples i saw as i was growing up. Heck, if my x had told me she wanted a lot of vacations and such when we were 25, it might have made sense, but why go for years without it seeming like a big deal, and then it become a big deal when we're 40?


I love the examples you used. My belief is that in these walk-aways, what happens is that when there isn't a dialog between two people, then the one with the "problem" is left to comfort and solve the problem themselves. This is fine from time to time, but when the same problem arises repeatedly, their own perspective is likely to change as they have an internal dialog that shifts the _meaning_ of the situation from "Karaoke just isn't her thing" to "Karaoke's just one of the many ways she ignores me."


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## southbound

KathyBatesel said:


> I love the examples you used. My belief is that in these walk-aways, what happens is that when there isn't a dialog between two people, then the one with the "problem" is left to comfort and solve the problem themselves. This is fine from time to time, but when the same problem arises repeatedly, their own perspective is likely to change as they have an internal dialog that shifts the _meaning_ of the situation from "Karaoke just isn't her thing" to "Karaoke's just one of the many ways she ignores me."


You are probably right. I think its sad that this kind of thinking is used mostly in relationships and that people can't see how illogical this line of thinking is . I could be wrong, but I hope our leaders aren't making decisions based on this kind of thinking. My current boss is a woman. She is very energetic and more emotional than most male bosses I have had, but I see no difference in her business decisions. They are all based on logic and gets the job done. 

I know that relationships and business are different, but if a person is capable of that kind of thinking and decision making, it's scary that it might spill over into other decisions they make.


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## ZimaBlue

southbound said:


> You refer to yourself as a possible "walk-away-wife," or having a mid-life crisis, so I assume you have no issues that most would call big issues, and your husband probably doesn't realize how unhappy you are. I had a walk-away-wife, so I know how it feels.
> 
> To answer your question about communication, I would have preferred my x wife had communicated her issues to me as seriously as they were to her before they became a problem. If a hurricane is brewing, don't act like it's light rain shower, because I don't pay much attention to those.
> 
> Also, I'm a very concrete person. I think my wife expected me to mind read, and interpret a lot of things, whereas, I take things as they appear. She said that after 18 years, I should have known what she needed, but shouldn't she have known me just as well? Shouldn't she have seen that I was laid back and was concrete. So, why did she not know what it took to truly get my attention. I also agree with KhienHan that I took it for granted after 18 years.
> 
> I mean, who expects to divorce after what seems like a normal 18 year marriage? Why not decide a mistake was made early on. If it takes 18 years, then there are surely a lot of good things that kept her hanging on. I guess us guys just don't understand the concept of; I'm a good provider, a good person, good father, and wouldn't cheat if a gun was to my head, do more than my share of the chores, yet somehow my wife still found a way to be unhappy.
> 
> I think the reason I didn't see it coming was because the things that she said made her unhappy wouldn't have even registered with me if she were doing them or not doing them toward me, so, I didn't see a problem.
> 
> ZimaBlue, if I seem a little edgy, it's not toward you, I'm just giving my situation and hope it helps.


Not at all -I want people to say how they feel, that is why I am here. But how to communicate w/o a negative reaction and a complete shutdown?


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## ZimaBlue

Runs like Dog said:


> I have been listening to this sort of thing here for 2 years and I'm baffled. WaW boiled down to its barest elements is "I'm silently fuming at you and hate you and won't cooperate with you in the least until you learn to be more obedient and do not only whatever I say but more importantly whatever I don't say and only think about in my own head but as long as I don't have to budge a single millimeter or take ownership in any way for anything least of all my own life and my happiness in it, we'll be fine'.
> 
> Because I finally had to spin up a fistful of google searches on psychology today and 20 other 'professional' websites and blogs about marriages and relationships. And in the final analysis the comments by and large were "You GO girl!!! You'd be amazed the change you can force on him..!"
> 
> Which I suppose is ok if you're planning on being the leader of a cult.


That's exactly right! It is I who need to know how to communicate w/o letting my anger get in the way. But I sense you are a little bitter about something? What was your experience? 

Not sure about wanting to be the leader of a cult though.


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## ZimaBlue

hookares said:


> If you think you will be around in your seventies and regret how your life progressed while in a unhappy marriage, be aware that you can do this alone, just as well.


Exactly! That is why the word 'Almost' is in the title of the thread.


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## southbound

ZimaBlue said:


> Not at all -I want people to say how they feel, that is why I am here. But how to communicate w/o a negative reaction and a complete shutdown?


What are your specific issues with your husband?


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## ZimaBlue

KathyBatesel said:


> The whole idea that someone walks away when "there's no truly major reason present" is one I can't accept. I think there *is* a major reason! "I feel worthless, ignored, and helpless" is a pretty dang GOOD reason to make changes, in my opinion.
> 
> I think that what leads up to that is a basic discomfort with confrontation. To avoid discomfort, some people avoid dealing with those topics to varying degrees. One person might listen, say all the right things, and promptly forget the promises they made. Another might behave in a way that discourages conversations on such topics. And so on...
> 
> Zima, what I hope you can understand is that you're both being avoidant. You said you don't know if your husband knows how unhappy you are. This tells me that you have backed off when he gets defensive and have never really gotten to core issues when they matter.
> 
> You need to make changes, but is there a reason you can't start with taking action at home - before walking out? If you'd like to find that happiness, I would encourage you to adopt a couple of practices for at least the next four months before deciding to chuck everything:
> 
> 1. Start requiring yourself to be honest with yourself about your feelings rather than trying to stuff them inside.
> 
> 2. When something makes you unhappy, find a way to do something about it every single time. That doesn't mean to go criticize your husband. It means that you need to evaluate which one of these methods will restore the level of happiness you need:
> --- Changing your own perspective about the issue
> --- Giving a clear behavioral response that lets you feel better without hurting anyone else's rights
> --- Having a conversation
> 
> For right now, it might be a good idea to tell your husband, "I have something important to talk to you about, and it's probably going to be a difficult conversation. When can you find 30 minutes in your schedule today or tomorrow so we can sit down together?"
> 
> When it arrives, start off with by repeating that you recognize this will be hard for him to hear and for you to say. Tell him you're sorry about creating discomfort, but that it's a necessary pain - like cleaning a wound before applying a bandage, because you're unhappy and thinking about leaving the marriage.
> 
> Don't explain why you're unhappy at this point. First, take a look at the reaction you're seeing in your husband. What does his posture look like? What facial expression do you see when he's not speaking? Does he appear closed off? Does he look like he's trying to shrink into the cushions? Is he wearing a mask of stoicism to hide the way he feels?
> 
> You'll need to be sensitive to unspoken signals of his discomfort and when you see them, offer him reassurance and positive regard until he can get back to a mind set that allows him to really hear you. Examples of reassurances:
> 
> -- I know you want me to be happy, and I trust you. I know that you don't ever try to hurt me.
> -- I know you are strong emotionally. I envy that about you. I'm not feeling strong right now, and need your help.
> -- You're a great provider, and I appreciate that. I'd like to ask for your help in providing something that you may never have thought about before.
> 
> You MUST create safety in order for your husband to feel safe enough to listen to you, because he senses an attack and protects himself. Whether you're really attacking or not is irrelevant. If he thinks one is there, then he's going to self-protect even if his perception is wrong.
> 
> Once you've created a good zone of safety, you can address the problems you're having. You may have to stop to recreate safety sometimes, and it can take a lot of practice to have even one healthy conversation. With enough practice, you can create an intimate connection that allows you both to find connection and harmony on an ongoing basis.
> 
> As you're addressing problems, you MUST be aware that criticizing HIM or blaming him removes safety and drives a wedge in between you. This means if you want to say, "I feel unimportant because you ignore me so much," you must reframe it to keep blame out. "I feel unimportant these days. When I try to say something and you say I'm nagging you, my thoughts make me believe that I'm worthless to you. Am I worthless to you?" Notice how "my thoughts" are making me believe instead of what he does? This can take the attack out of attacking a problem.
> 
> I hope this helps you start approaching your man in a way that can help the two of you hang on to something that has been reasonably good for a long time.


This is very good advice, thank you very much. There must be some way round this.


----------



## ZimaBlue

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OP, I think you should share with the rest of us what exactly the issues that you are having with your husband. I think they would be relevant in order to recommend some future course of action to either try to save your marriage or to help you move on with your life. We've all had diverse experiences ranging from spouses with no sex drive, spouses with too high of a sex drive, spouses who are doormats, spouses who are stubborn, aggressive, lazy, workaholics, drinkers, smokers, prudes, etc, etc... You get the point. I would hate to try to give advice about something unknown that may end up being too benign if your situation is very serious or too over the top if your situation is actually something that might be easy to fix.


Er...OK, if you're sure. 

He is what's known as a compulsive liar (google it) - not mean, no affairs or anything but lies out of habit or makes things up to avoid any kind of responsibility or admit he's made a mistake. Most situations that he buggars up always seem to be someone else's fault. It has got to the point that whenever he says anything now, I just don't believe him.

He resigned from his job 6 months ago and for some reason I cannot fathom, he has not applied for any more, although he claims that he has (see above). He lies and says that he has to shut me up. There are jobs out there that he could easily apply for, so I'm a bit stumped. 

He is very lazy. He has been virtually housebound for 6 months, and although started doing some DIY and sorting stuff, now does nothing. He sleeps all day (into the evening, between 4pm - 9pm) and stays up all night drinking in front of his computer. He is a 'oh, I must do that...', but rarely takes action. I think he has a drinking problem, but I drink as well (only thing that stops me dwelling on everything), so I'm not one to talk. 

Oh, and no sex, about 3 times since we got married 8 1/2 years ago. But that is probably a problem on both sides and it would be unfair for me to get angry with him for that. 

You will probably all say that this isn't that bad, and I should just get over it, but the money is going to run out eventually and I am frustrated that he does nothing, when I work. When the money does run out, I can predict that he will do nothing but sit there and we will end up bankrupt. 

He is not all bad, I paint a bad picture, but he is a lovely person. I just wish he wasn't so lazy. 

I am just angry and annoyed. Is it just a man-child thing just to lie in bed asleep all day? He left his job because of the shift patterns and the fact that we never spent any time together. But now it's worse!


----------



## ZimaBlue

southbound said:


> True. The title reads "wal-away-wife," and I just define that as a wife who walks away for petty reasons like my wife did, but the OP, and many others, may have more serious issues.


So now you know, do you think they are petty reasons? I will not mind if you say yes, that's why I'm here. I want some honesty. What reasons did your wife give then?


----------



## ZimaBlue

bfree said:


> You have been with this man for 19 years so obviously there was something about him that you loved at one time. We all change as we age and we begin to value different things as we grow but how is he supposed to know your feelings and/or values have changed unless you tell him? Pardon me if I am too blunt but I personally feel that leaving your husband without allowing him to fight for you and your marriage is not only cowardly but extremely selfish. Would you want to be treated that way?


Not at all! I am asking for advice on how to broach the subject and be reasonable about it, not nag him and tell him how to run his life. I have no intention of that, he can live how he chooses - to be honest, he is well within his rights to say 'like it or lump it'. 

The more I read these comments, the more I think the articles about 'walk away wives' are misleading. 

The husbands are right - they don't deserve to be treated this way. And they are not mindreaders. How do I communicate my mind w/o getting a list of false promises?


----------



## ZimaBlue

KanDo said:


> Interesting. Here is a thread that was started with essentually no information about what the issues are. No statement of facts. No discussion of conflict and yet advise is being given.......
> 
> OP. If you would like considered advice, perhaps you can enlighten us on what the real problems are?
> 
> Unhappiness doesn't necessarily go away with the dissolution of a marriage if the marriage or partner isn't the root problem....... You may just find yourself unhappy AND alone.


Thanks KanDo - see above, have made reference to this. He could have been a wife beater or something!


----------



## ZimaBlue

KathyBatesel said:


> I love the examples you used. My belief is that in these walk-aways, what happens is that when there isn't a dialog between two people, then the one with the "problem" is left to comfort and solve the problem themselves. This is fine from time to time, but when the same problem arises repeatedly, their own perspective is likely to change as they have an internal dialog that shifts the _meaning_ of the situation from "Karaoke just isn't her thing" to "Karaoke's just one of the many ways she ignores me."


Yes! But I do understand that he doesn't stay in bed all day or compulsively lie to hurt me. He's just a lazy slob and something happened in his childhood that makes him terrified of getting the blame for anything.


----------



## A Bit Much

From what you say is going on here, I wouldn't put you in the WAW catagory. You sound like a person that has found her limit and what she will no longer tolerate. 

He on the other hand sounds depressed, and possibly has some addiction issue or other. Lack of sex is a huge red flag for that. I can't imagine going a month without it, much less some YEARS without.


----------



## ZimaBlue

A Bit Much said:


> From what you say is going on here, I wouldn't put you in the WAW catagory. You sound like a person that has found her limit and what she will no longer tolerate.
> 
> He on the other hand sounds depressed, and possibly has some addiction issue or other. Lack of sex is a huge red flag for that. I can't imagine going a month without it, much less some YEARS without.


Yes, this isn't the first time I have thought he may be depressed. But he has always said he does not understand depression...maybe he doesn't realise.


----------



## A Bit Much

ZimaBlue said:


> Yes, this isn't the first time I have thought he may be depressed. But he has always said he does not understand depression...maybe he doesn't realise.


He doesn't understand it? He's living it. Housebound for 6 months, doesn't want or engage in sex, sleeps all day, quits his job and isn't looking? Sounds like a depressed person to me. The lying... living in fantasy more than reality.

Have you asked him about seeking some medical treatment? Tell him you're worried about him and really think he should get evaluated. It's hard to get defensive about someone showing some care for you.


----------



## Plan 9 from OS

ZimaBlue said:


> Er...OK, if you're sure.
> 
> He is what's known as a compulsive liar (google it) - not mean, no affairs or anything but lies out of habit or makes things up to avoid any kind of responsibility or admit he's made a mistake. Most situations that he buggars up always seem to be someone else's fault. It has got to the point that whenever he says anything now, I just don't believe him.
> 
> He resigned from his job 6 months ago and for some reason I cannot fathom, he has not applied for any more, although he claims that he has (see above). He lies and says that he has to shut me up. There are jobs out there that he could easily apply for, so I'm a bit stumped.
> 
> He is very lazy. He has been virtually housebound for 6 months, and although started doing some DIY and sorting stuff, now does nothing. He sleeps all day (into the evening, between 4pm - 9pm) and stays up all night drinking in front of his computer. He is a 'oh, I must do that...', but rarely takes action. I think he has a drinking problem, but I drink as well (only thing that stops me dwelling on everything), so I'm not one to talk.
> 
> Oh, and no sex, about 3 times since we got married 8 1/2 years ago. But that is probably a problem on both sides and it would be unfair for me to get angry with him for that.
> 
> You will probably all say that this isn't that bad, and I should just get over it, but the money is going to run out eventually and I am frustrated that he does nothing, when I work. When the money does run out, I can predict that he will do nothing but sit there and we will end up bankrupt.
> 
> He is not all bad, I paint a bad picture, but he is a lovely person. I just wish he wasn't so lazy.
> 
> I am just angry and annoyed. Is it just a man-child thing just to lie in bed asleep all day? He left his job because of the shift patterns and the fact that we never spent any time together. But now it's worse!


Zima,
As others have stated, I wouldn't think of calling you a walk away wife if you felt that this situation was no longer something you could put up with. Has your husband been a compulsive liar, lazy and losing jobs the whole time you've known him or is it just the past 6 mo - 1 year time period where he's made a sudden change for the worse? As a few and yourself have mentioned, he may be depressed because it seems unusual for someone to quit a job and not bother to look for another one while his spouse supports the household. This isn't something you can simply endure silently. You need to take action ASAP and try to correct this issue. Your husband may be a nice guy, but he is not showing you any love or respect if he doesn't get himself together and make changes in his life, i.e. find the job, get help for the constant lying and to cut down on the drinking. Continuing down this path will result in you building up more and more resentment, and you may do something dumb out of frustration. 

IMO, you need to have a heart to heart with your husband and set up a time table for him to get help and find a job. If he doesn't budge, you need to move on. I wouldn't put up with this and you shouldn't either.


----------



## ZimaBlue

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Zima,
> As others have stated, I wouldn't think of calling you a walk away wife if you felt that this situation was no longer something you could put up with. Has your husband been a compulsive liar, lazy and losing jobs the whole time you've known him or is it just the past 6 mo - 1 year time period where he's made a sudden change for the worse? As a few and yourself have mentioned, he may be depressed because it seems unusual for someone to quit a job and not bother to look for another one while his spouse supports the household. This isn't something you can simply endure silently. You need to take action ASAP and try to correct this issue. Your husband may be a nice guy, but he is not showing you any love or respect if he doesn't get himself together and make changes in his life, i.e. find the job, get help for the constant lying and to cut down on the drinking. Continuing down this path will result in you building up more and more resentment, and you may do something dumb out of frustration.
> 
> IMO, you need to have a heart to heart with your husband and set up a time table for him to get help and find a job. If he doesn't budge, you need to move on. I wouldn't put up with this and you shouldn't either.


Hi, 

Yes, he has always been a compulsive liar. And his previous job had awful shift patterns, which I believe have ruined his sleep patters forever. But I often get the 'oh, I'm not asleep' line, but he doesn't get up for sometimes hours. Depressed or lazy? I don't know! 

He won't get out of his lie about not looking for a job w/o a fight, so will probably shut down if I mention anything about it or just deny that he hasn't applied. Nothing I can do if he won't admit it. So when we go bankrupt, he won't be to blame because he was too lazy to look for a job. That is what will happen.


----------



## A Bit Much

ZimaBlue said:


> Hi,
> 
> Yes, he has always been a compulsive liar. And his previous job had awful shift patterns, which I believe have ruined his sleep patters forever. But I often get the 'oh, I'm not asleep' line, but he doesn't get up for sometimes hours. Depressed or lazy? I don't know!
> 
> He won't get out of his lie about not looking for a job w/o a fight, so will probably shut down if I mention anything about it or just deny that he hasn't applied. Nothing I can do if he won't admit it. So when we go bankrupt, he won't be to blame because he was too lazy to look for a job. That is what will happen.


Well the way I see it, you're supporting him and his habits. If he was doing drugs would you support him? I would think not. Some people need harsh wake up calls to get them to realize they have a lot to lose if they continue the path they are on. Up until now, you've supported him financially, with no plan of action or progress. People need incentives to keep going. What's yours? 

I'd be looking to support myself. If he refuses to discuss the state of your finances and relationship, I don't see any other choice for you other than to start taking care of yourself and your best interests. Don't apologize for it either. Maybe when he starts seeing you getting your ducks in a row he'll snap out of whatever this is, but I agree you cannot continue to go on like this and burning yourself up (as well) in the process.


----------



## sinnister

As been said this is almost textbook depression for a man.

A job is crucial for us to feel like a man. We're all little boys at heart, but when it comes to earning money for the family unit it's something that we usually take pride in. When a man stops taking pride in going to work..even if he hates his job, there is something majorly wrong.

Drinking in front of his computer? No Sex? Definitely something wrong.

I don't have a walk away wife (knock on every wood surface available) but I can say that you might be able to work through this. I dont think you would have even made the effort to put in a screen name here otherwise.


----------



## bfree

ZimaBlue said:


> Not at all! I am asking for advice on how to broach the subject and be reasonable about it, not nag him and tell him how to run his life. I have no intention of that, he can live how he chooses - to be honest, he is well within his rights to say 'like it or lump it'.
> 
> The more I read these comments, the more I think the articles about 'walk away wives' are misleading.
> 
> The husbands are right - they don't deserve to be treated this way. And they are not mindreaders. How do I communicate my mind w/o getting a list of false promises?


What you need to do is communicate in a constructive but firm manner. You have to make him understand that you are not telling him what to do or how to live his life. You are setting your boundaries and expectations. You need him to be a leader. If you feel that he may react badly then make an appointment for MC and broach the subject in a safe, neutral environment. If he won't go to MC then simply say it's MC or divorce...you pick. You have to be firm but not overbearing. Keep thinking to yourself that these are YOUR expectations for YOURSELF.

I will not live with a man that will not work a job.

I will not live with a man that will not have sexual relations with me.

I will not live with a man that does not value me.

Then put these expectation to him and if he chooses not to meet them then you can "walk away" knowing you tried your best.


----------



## ShawnD

MattMatt said:


> My wife has NHS. Every-so-often she will come home or I will come home from work and even before I am in the door she will say: "What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you in such a foul mood?" Which often caused an argument, as I had not been in a foul mood.
> 
> After several years I cottoned on to the fact that my wife would do this when she had had an argument with a work mate,a woman in a shop, etc.
> 
> She would bottle this up, let in rankle with her all day, and let rip at the Nearest Human later on, which of course, is me, as we live together with no children.
> 
> Yet she genuinely believes that it is all my fault.


Schizophrenia? My aunt was married to a guy who slowly became schizophrenic, and his behavior was a bit like you describe. He would just randomly say things like "why are you yelling at me?" when nobody said anything. He eventually broke down to the point where he couldn't work anymore. He's currently relying on government assistance to get by.



> He won't get out of his lie about not looking for a job w/o a fight, so will probably shut down if I mention anything about it or just deny that he hasn't applied. Nothing I can do if he won't admit it. So when we go bankrupt, he won't be to blame because he was too lazy to look for a job. That is what will happen.


Sounds like depression.


----------



## This is me

ZimaBlue,

I give you credit for looking for answers and seeking advice. Early in this post you thought you may be a WAW, which caught my attention. Having a wife who went through a WAW/MLC period there was much to be learned through many months of pain.

If you have built up resentment over a period of months and years and believe you have given him signs, but not directly told him you think your marriage needs PROFESSIONAL help and have thought about divorce, I would say these are the tell tale signs of the WAW.

I also believe this is a sign of a MLC or depression that can be cured with IC and simple time. The fog will lift. The key is to not do too much damage while you are in it.

My wife and I have gone full circle. We had what I thought was a great marriage. Not perfect, but we were good companions, confidants and lovers, then things slowly changed. She became more distant, started working out like never before, decided to get braces (her teeth were fine), looked into a boob job and only discussed with her sister, then the distance was getting more obvious and the D word came out of her mouth.

Shocked me and all around us. She painted me as someone terrible, history was rewritten and even her closest friends confided in me they noticed the change in her.

She left for four months, but agreed to MC and IC. We nearly did divorce before she woke up and realized that this guy who had been with her for over 17 years was about to agree with her and move on.

Now we are back together, in love and trying to repair the extend family and friends damage. Time will heal.

If you can relate to the MLC for Dummies below, seek professional help with a licensed, pro-marriage counselor.

I wish you well!!!


----------



## Thundarr

ZimaBlue said:


> Er...OK, if you're sure.
> 
> He is what's known as a compulsive liar (google it) - not mean, no affairs or anything but lies out of habit or makes things up to avoid any kind of responsibility or admit he's made a mistake. Most situations that he buggars up always seem to be someone else's fault. It has got to the point that whenever he says anything now, I just don't believe him.
> 
> He resigned from his job 6 months ago and for some reason I cannot fathom, he has not applied for any more, although he claims that he has (see above). He lies and says that he has to shut me up. There are jobs out there that he could easily apply for, so I'm a bit stumped.
> 
> He is very lazy. He has been virtually housebound for 6 months, and although started doing some DIY and sorting stuff, now does nothing. He sleeps all day (into the evening, between 4pm - 9pm) and stays up all night drinking in front of his computer. He is a 'oh, I must do that...', but rarely takes action. I think he has a drinking problem, but I drink as well (only thing that stops me dwelling on everything), so I'm not one to talk.
> 
> Oh, and no sex, about 3 times since we got married 8 1/2 years ago. But that is probably a problem on both sides and it would be unfair for me to get angry with him for that.
> 
> You will probably all say that this isn't that bad, and I should just get over it, but the money is going to run out eventually and I am frustrated that he does nothing, when I work. When the money does run out, I can predict that he will do nothing but sit there and we will end up bankrupt.
> 
> He is not all bad, I paint a bad picture, but he is a lovely person. I just wish he wasn't so lazy.
> 
> I am just angry and annoyed. Is it just a man-child thing just to lie in bed asleep all day? He left his job because of the shift patterns and the fact that we never spent any time together. But now it's worse!


eeeh. Given that he is the following
- compulsive liar
- blame shifter
- drinks too much
- plans but does not do
- does not work
- is not looking for work
- sleeps all day

and the fact that you are still with him means you are an enabler. If you do not leave then you will continue to be an enabler and he will never do for himself. If you leave then he may or may not do for himself but at least it won't be your problem.

Did I hear right that you have sex 3-4 times over 8 years? That's not normal at all.


----------



## This is me

Thundarr said:


> eeeh. Given that he is the following
> - compulsive liar
> - blame shifter
> - drinks too much
> - plans but does not do
> - does not work
> - is not looking for work
> - sleeps all day
> 
> and the fact that you are still with him means you are an enabler. If you do not leave then you will continue to be an enabler and he will never do for himself. If you leave then he may or may not do for himself but at least it won't be your problem.
> 
> Did I hear right that you have sex 3-4 times over 8 years? That's not normal at all.



You should have heard how awful I was when my WAW resented me. I was not the perfect guy and did contribute to some of the bad in the relationship, but the alien within her painted someone else.

Sorry, I am pro-marriage and that is why when someone believes they may be a WAW going through a MLC, I would suggest they sleep on it for about 6 months to let the fog lift.


----------



## deejov

southbound said:


> I see what you mean, but isn't there a point where one should consider whether the typical person would find the reasons valid, and if not, shouldn't we look within ourselves an determine if the problem is more us than them? One doesn't usually get sent to prison for going 2 miles over the speed limit, and wouldn't most feel that was making too much of the situation?
> 
> For example, i like to sing. I like karaoke or getting with people who play guitar and letting it rip. I would have enjoyed it if my x wife would have joined in, but singing wasn't her thing. So, should I have pondered on that over the years and convinced myself that i was unhappy and said to myself, "She must not love me because she won't even try, and file for divorce?" I think that would have been a bit off.
> 
> I don't know everyone's situation, and I'm not trying to throw slurs at anyone, I'm just expressing my situation and my views. To be honest, some of my wife's things were actually in a similar category as the singing thing.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, but if someone were asked to make a list of deal breakers before they married, i wonder how many would actually list the things that they often end up leaving over?
> 
> I know people change. I thought people "settled down" a bit as they got older instead of putting it in high gear; that's the examples i saw as i was growing up. Heck, if my x had told me she wanted a lot of vacations and such when we were 25, it might have made sense, but why go for years without it seeming like a big deal, and then it become a big deal when we're 40?


Dealbreakers change... and growing up, IMO, means you do let the little stuff slide, and maybe your goals change. And I know a lot of my friends didn't have stuff straight in their own minds until somewhere in their 30's. 

A good example would be a spouse that likes to go out, have a few drinks, stay out late. It's fun in your 20's. Could be a dealbreaker in your 40's.


----------



## ZimaBlue

MattMatt said:


> There is something that I call "Nearest Human Syndrome" (NHS) in which a person with general problems and issues tends to blame these on the Nearest Human.
> 
> As a child there is a tendency for people to blame their parents when things go wrong in their lives. "If only my parents understood me!" "It is my mom's/dad's fault that I am miserable!" "If only they had done x, y, z, everything would be wonderful!"
> 
> My wife has NHS. Every-so-often she will come home or I will come home from work and even before I am in the door she will say: "What the hell is wrong with you? Why are you in such a foul mood?" Which often caused an argument, as I had not been in a foul mood.
> 
> After several years I cottoned on to the fact that my wife would do this when she had had an argument with a work mate,a woman in a shop, etc.
> 
> She would bottle this up, let in rankle with her all day, and let rip at the Nearest Human later on, which of course, is me, as we live together with no children.
> 
> Yet she genuinely believes that it is all my fault.
> 
> I learned to ignore these attempts to goad me into a fight.
> 
> OP, do you do this? Do you blame your husband for stuff that happens that are not really his fault?
> 
> There's also Blame Seeker Syndrome when a person cannot just accept that stuff happens and needs to go NHS and blame the Nearest Human for whatever stuff has happened.
> 
> My mother had a theory about this, she mentioned to me years ago that some parents were setting their children up for this when a child is clumsy or just trips up as it is not yet used to walking, the parents will chastise the chair the child hurt itself on saying: "naughty chair! You hurt x!" they will then sometimes pretend to punish the chair.
> 
> This, my mother theorised, makes children seek out something, or someone, to blame, when stuff goes wrong, later. And guess what? If there's nobody else but husband or wife nearby, why, it is the Nearest Human that gets the blame!
> 
> It's possible your husband does need to change his ways. But if he were a mind reader, he'd have done this years ago.


No. This is most certainly NOT the case. For years I had to walk on eggshells, so I didn't have to put up with his short-tempered strops. I'm sorry that your wife did this to you, though.


----------



## ZimaBlue

Thundarr said:


> eeeh. Given that he is the following
> - compulsive liar
> - blame shifter
> - drinks too much
> - plans but does not do
> - does not work
> - is not looking for work
> - sleeps all day
> 
> and the fact that you are still with him means you are an enabler. If you do not leave then you will continue to be an enabler and he will never do for himself. If you leave then he may or may not do for himself but at least it won't be your problem.
> 
> Did I hear right that you have sex 3-4 times over 8 years? That's not normal at all.


Yes, exactly. We had a huge row the other day because we have no more money left yet he is still buying things off the Internet. I think he expected me to say sorry or be grovelling, but I'm not anymore. I'm sick of his behaviour and I am sure that the day will come soon when I juts tell him I've had enough and, when I have enough money (probably when I've lost my house and everything) he can try and find a way to put up with his compulsive behaviours with himself. Or sponge off his Mum and Dad, which is probably more likely.


----------



## ZimaBlue

This is me said:


> You should have heard how awful I was when my WAW resented me. I was not the perfect guy and did contribute to some of the bad in the relationship, but the alien within her painted someone else.
> 
> Sorry, I am pro-marriage and that is why when someone believes they may be a WAW going through a MLC, I would suggest they sleep on it for about 6 months to let the fog lift.


Rubbish. I've been 'sleeping on it' for years.


----------



## oldgeezer

southbound said:


> I feel similar in having to do all the research. If one has to be a psychologist to know how to be in a relationship, how can that work? If my x wife was acting normally, why didn't I catch on to what she wanted? I'm not a bad guy. It wasn't my life's mission to make someone miserable, just the opposite. I didn't wake up every morning thinking, "How can i make my life wonderful regardless of how she feels."
> 
> i was raised to be very logical-minded, which i thought was a good thing, but perhaps not so much in a relationship. I suppose if someone had asked me to list things that would make my marriage a fairytale, I could have put some things on a list, but just because I didn't have them, I felt like "so what," this is real life. Why would I be unhappy.
> 
> Not so many years ago, I often heard it mentioned that people get in trouble because they expect their marriage to be like the movies, but it seems like that is what people think is normal today. Sure, there are marriages like that of SimplyAmoras, but just because we don't all fit that category, should we all be miserable? i don't think so.


Relationships aren't logical. Not in the sense that those of us who are left-brain are tuned to see. We're problem solvers, we're rational and ordered. 

Our other half, on the other hand, doesn't operate even remotely like this. While us men see going up to the altar and saying "I do" and then not cheating, doing the dishes when needed, and otherwise taking care to ensure that we're not breaking our commitments as the important part of maintaining a relationship, our wives generally find themselves unsure of things. We took our our commitment to mean that it's just the way things are until or unless we make a different choice. She agreed to this, and we take it for granted it's true for both of us until someone says differently. 

Apparently, these things are untrue. The woman's mind isn't even remotely happy with this. She's always a little uncertain and requires reassurances. She tries to convey her way of thinking to us in terms and language that totally, and i mean, TOTALLY mean nothing to our ordered minds. And when we don't react, she gets all depressed and angry and frustrated because she's sure we don't 'care', which is supposed to be expressed in nuanced and subtle ways. When she complains the car is hard to start, we either fix it or arrange to get the mechanic to fix it and we're done. THe important part to her is about how she FELT when the car would not start. Fixing the car is secondary to us empathizing. 

And even if we, the left brain, ordered thinking and literal minded men, somehow manage to pick up on it, it simply does not occur to us what, how, why, nor are our reactions generally useful. 

So, in the end, we have a faithful husband who believes he's upheld his end of the deal by being true, being a provider, doing what he promised to do, and the wife is totally unfulfilled, unhappy, insecure, angry and frustrated, and we never see it coming. Partly because our minds have no means of observing, analyzing, and then solving what the woman believes she's desperately attempting to get across to us. We're not indifferent, we just aren't wired to decode the message that comes our way. 

Think of us as AM and them FM, and our radios do not receive what they transmit and vice versa. They have to learn to speak more of our language and we have to learn to understand more of theirs. And vice versa, of course. Even after well more than 20 years, I still react to my wife's description of some problem by going into "fix the problem" mode, which just infuriates the wife, because she doesn't want me to fix it, just listen. And I have yet to comprehend when I'm supposed to listen and when i'm supposed to fix, I find no clues to tell me which is which.

And then just enough of the time, it's ordered and logical, (she just wants x fixed, go and fix it now) so that we're never sure what, exactly, is the "right" reaction. 

And then, of course, there's the situations where people do not honor their commitments for other reasons entirely. 

Welcome to the maze of relationship challenges.


----------



## EleGirl

oldgeezer...

Did you miss that the OP has real problems in her marriage... like her husband blowing all their money? Like him refusing to work on the marriage? Like her having to walk on egg shells because of his explosive anger?

I don't think it helps the OP at all the minimize serious issues by saying that women are just not logical.


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## northernlights

Oldgeezer, people are all different, and I find gender stereotypes useless at best and harmful at worst. Both men and women are capable of logical thinking.


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## oldgeezer

ZimaBlue said:


> Not at all -I want people to say how they feel, that is why I am here. But how to communicate w/o a negative reaction and a complete shutdown?


I can't answer your question very well, because I've spent a lot of time in the "shutdown" mode myself, and my wife does that to me a lot. It's a complex answer that I'm somewhat unsure of in my own mind. But, let me provide some context to my own thoughts, it might help you. 

Why do I not want to engage? First, when you're feeling really stressed or unhappy, it's very difficult to want to take on another stressful issue. 

Let me try to paint a picture: For the 20+ years we've been married, my wife's financial skills have been very, very weak. I couldn't even teach her how to balance a checkbook. She just screamed at me and told me I was stupid, because the form on the back of the statement didn't make any sense to her (she had poor math skills). It cost us thousands a year in fees and late fees and so on. 

Then, she finally makes it through school, gets her first job with her degree, and makes more money than I do. Suddenly, she wants to direct it, since she makes more and feels "entitled" to do it, I guess. (I still have no idea, here)

Her random and impulsive money spending defied any and all attempts to demonstrate, explain, discuss... 

So, she got "her" account and I got "mine". No, I don't believe that's a healthy way for a family to manage their money. But no matter what, she has never, not even when faced with looking at her statements and seeing the costs, ever faced up to the fact that even to this day, her approach to money is pure emotion, no logic. The overdrafts were ALWAYS my fault, even if they were because she forgot or ignored what I said about paying something, or buying something that was needed, etc. Math isn't emotional and never will be. I thought that once she controlled an account solely on her own, she'd have to look at it and start modifying her behavior. Nope, didn't work. And now she's determined to keep the purse strings because "you didn't take any interest in trying to deal with money". And that's her words. Yeah, I didn't do things right, but I can't undo them now, now it's just context.

So, when she's angry at me for my lack of income, rather than be defensive, I just shut up. I am simply NOT going to start at 25 years ago and go through it all... AGAIN. Do I have a role in this? Yes, mostly by omission, rather than commission. By not doing whatever it took to get our financial house in order, I have enabled our now two+ decades of financial chaos. 

So, rather even try to deal with all that yet again (it's been hashed over a dozen times or more), I just shut down. If we were prudent with our money, we'd live very well. She was grossing over 110K a year a decade ago, and we lived in a hovel and drove rickety old cars, and had bill collectors up the wazzoo, because of her money priorities. 

then she got injured on the job, could not work at her old job ( we had an 18 month legal fight with the workmen's comp insurer) and no income. Well, when you go from having 70K a year disposable income to 25k, it's just not going to be the same. 

Yet, she was absolutely certain I was supposed to somehow find a job that made a bunch of money, but didn't interfere with my business, which is a 24/7/365 service. And, since I found nothing that worked, she assumed I "didn't care". She found Dave Ramsey's show, listens to it a lot, and went through his "university", which is quite good. And now she's mad at me, because I only attended part of it. Yeah, nothing new in it to me. He's a genius at explaining and making concepts clear, but it's my own approach to money clarified, if nothing else. I'm no financial whiz, but it's just common sense. She's still angry, years later, because my not going through the whole thing, in her mind, was because I just didn't care. If she only knew how this has been one of the most painful, frustrating, stress inducing, sleep depriving, agonizing parts of my life she'd not say that. But to tell her would mean going through it all again, until the moment where she gets defensive in the "How dare you blame all this on me..." moment. 

And, her "you don't care" rants shut me down, too. 

After the death of my parents, I went through some depression. And, again, she came at me head on, guns blazing, demanding I justify my behavior ( I had no idea at the time what to think... I didn't see it as depression, I was just hair trigger angry and resentful of everything), I just shut down. No answers, what do you do? She didn't want to help, she wanted to leverage me to do what she wanted. 

There is emotional baggage attached to discussions between any two people in a relationship that can make discussion of some things become all but impossibly stressful. And not necessarily be the fault of either that it's so. In my case, I've "learned" by long and painful experience to NOT relate my internal emotional turmoil with her, because SHE WILL use it as a leverage or a weapon when she's angry. I keep a lot to myself, to avoid giving her more emotional arsenal to manipulate or pressure me with. And she is absolutely, dead on certain she does no such thing. 

So, these are some of the types of situations where I just "shut down" and would rather just be silent and have her mad at me for being silent, than to open my mouth and make the conflict worse. 

If your husband really is experiencing any level of depression, he will, also, engage in the conflict management behavior, where he chooses the lesser of painful things. In my case, being yelled at about not talking was far easier to live with, than having to deal with all the other crap. Avoidance? Yes. Not healthy? Yes. But we still do it. We're human. Sometimes we really just do take the easy way out, even if it's worse over the longer term. 

You might convince him to get help. He probably wants it or may even wish he had it. But if he has to process the relationship with you parts of dealing with along with whatever his own issues might be, I seriously doubt you're going to have any success in talking to him. I'd suggest something like this: "You're appearing unhappy, uninterested in the things you should be, and I'm really worried about you. Can I convince you to talk to someone and just for now, you deal with whatever is making you miserable, without worrying about me?" 

I strongly suspect that he's engaging in conflict avoidance, but that's a way of managing his own internal issues, keeping things at a tolerable (or at least as good as they're going to get) level. It's far easier for men to deal with issues in a serial manner ( one at a time), but women want to deal with EVERYTHING at the same moment, and that's just not the way men deal with the world. We're ordered and want to deal with one problem at a time... solve this, move on to the next one, etc, etc. 

Once he's got a handle on whatever ( even if it's about you) then he'll be far more ready and even may want to work out things with you, and it'll need to be one topic, one issue, at a time. Not a "why won't you talk to me", which might be 10 topics and there is simply no way he'll discuss 10 things at once. We're not wired that way.


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## oldgeezer

EleGirl said:


> oldgeezer...
> 
> Did you miss that the OP has real problems in her marriage... like her husband blowing all their money? Like him refusing to work on the marriage? Like her having to walk on egg shells because of his explosive anger?
> 
> I don't think it helps the OP at all the minimize serious issues by saying that women are just not logical.



I think you missed the fact that the post you're responding to was not addressed to the OP. My response to the OP was later.


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## oldgeezer

northernlights said:


> Oldgeezer, people are all different, and I find gender stereotypes useless at best and harmful at worst. Both men and women are capable of logical thinking.


Really, nowhere in anything I said did I say that people are incapable of logical thinking. 

However, we're not dealing with just simple logic here.  We're dealing with an emotional relationship that men and women very often (generally) view in different terms and miscommunicate in common ways. 

Not all women behave the same.. not all men behave the same. But the odds are good that men are more alike and women are more alike.


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## KathyBatesel

Oldgeezer, that was a brilliant explanation of how that "shutting down" evolves in a marriage.


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## ZimaBlue

Thanks for that, oldgeezer, very useful. 

But the conflict avoidance is now turning into life avoidance. He doesn't now bother to get out of bed during the day. I've given up all hope that he ever intends to help sort out our financial mess. But history has taught me that he never would anyway. So I've given up. I've been to see the bank and set up my own bank account. Have started selling my possessions on ebay and do what I can to make sure that I can survive to at least keep the house for a few months. 

He's a compulsive liar, so anything he says regarding a job opportunity or 'yeah I'm going to fix that tomorrow' is a load of ****. 

I hate the way people on the forum sometimes give advice 'take your husband to a therapist' - yeah. I'll chloroform him and tie him to a chair shall I? Therapists are also not free, and I can't even afford to put diesel in my car. Oh, and if I suggested it, I might as well be saying - 'you're a nutjob'. If he is depressed (and he hasn't got bipolar or anything like that) then I don't see how I can get past the compulsive lying and the compulsive laziness to care any more to be quite honest. 

Harsh? Probably. But every time he feeds me a line of bull**** once more, a little bit of my respect for him disappears because he's basically saying 'you're just another person I've got to con so you can get off my back.' He clearly never had any respect for me. 

Wifey has had enough.


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## oldgeezer

ZimaBlue said:


> Thanks for that, oldgeezer, very useful.
> 
> But the conflict avoidance is now turning into life avoidance. He doesn't now bother to get out of bed during the day. I've given up all hope that he ever intends to help sort out our financial mess. But history has taught me that he never would anyway. So I've given up. I've been to see the bank and set up my own bank account. Have started selling my possessions on ebay and do what I can to make sure that I can survive to at least keep the house for a few months.
> 
> He's a compulsive liar, so anything he says regarding a job opportunity or 'yeah I'm going to fix that tomorrow' is a load of ****.
> 
> I hate the way people on the forum sometimes give advice 'take your husband to a therapist' - yeah. I'll chloroform him and tie him to a chair shall I? Therapists are also not free, and I can't even afford to put diesel in my car. Oh, and if I suggested it, I might as well be saying - 'you're a nutjob'. If he is depressed (and he hasn't got bipolar or anything like that) then I don't see how I can get past the compulsive lying and the compulsive laziness to care any more to be quite honest.
> 
> Harsh? Probably. But every time he feeds me a line of bull**** once more, a little bit of my respect for him disappears because he's basically saying 'you're just another person I've got to con so you can get off my back.' He clearly never had any respect for me.
> 
> Wifey has had enough.


I've read through this thread twice now, the last time reading only your posts. 

You did say that sex was incredibly rare... And he doesn't complain about it? 

He quit his job without talking to you or having any other plan? 

He's now housebound himself. Doesn't go anywhere, just buys stuff online and spends all day in bed, stays up at night really doing nothing and putting in some alcohol. 

Now here's the part I'm going to make some guesses... I dunno if these are true, but if they are... 

No interest in himself. Rarely shaves, wanders around in sweats or shorts... When you make demands, he deflects them with "yeah, tomorrow" and ducks out on you. 

Even though there's no money, he has no interest in any more. 

His sleep hours are rather random, and he tunes everything out except what he focuses on, which to you seem to be nothing. 

Is any of this right? I'm going to go on with the presumption it is, and if I'm wrong, correct it, please.

If you were a man coming to the forum to ask about his wife, you would have 20 people telling you she's in depression, has something wrong, terribly wrong, and to get her to the doctor ASAP. 

Nobody does this while healthy. This is not "lazy". It appears lazy, though. This is not a "marriage relationship" problem. This is some very serious medical or mental - or medical causing mental - problem that's stolen him, his life, and everything about him away from him. And, if you were a man, describing a wife, people would probably be telling you to screw the cost, take him to the doctor - probably medical first, and then for mental evaluation. 

You sound to me like you're so poisoned with anger and maybe even hatred of him, that you don't care if he lives or dies. But in my estimation, he's dying already. He's certainly not living. And apparently has either no will or understanding of how to get back to it. 

If you can't bring yourself to do this, see if you can get family member to intervene and get him to start back on the road to life. Please.


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## ZimaBlue

oldgeezer said:


> take him to the doctor - probably medical first, and then for mental evaluation.


There's that phrase again 'take him'. He walks around the house quite normally just going about his business as if he is a teenager - back on the computer, smoke, beer, bed, repeat. Thanks for the dinner. And cleaning. And doing everything else because I can't be bothered. Well done, nothing wrong with me, why the hell would I need to go to the doctor? 

I think the 'don't care if he lives or dies' is a bit harsh too. If people think I'm a bad wife or bad person for being angry then tough - I've had to put up with this for while now and my whole life will be ruined because he couldn't be bothered to get out of bed. 

Would be good to get advice from people who have been in his situation. I suspect their wives left them long before they realised they needed to sort their act out, although it's the way I have to get across he needs to do something more than NOTHING, w/o getting ignored, or an angry attack response. I'm sick of it.


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## Dewayne76

To me, just stating my opinion. It sounds like if it's been going on for years, YOU should've figured out how to communicate to him better. 

Ok, that's not a terrible thing. You guys got put on Auto-Pilot. 

let met ask you this. If you could change his patterns. Get him out of this state, make him the way he was when he was attractive to you, would you be happier? Could you be happy with him again if you were to get these things lined out?

All I"m trying to say is look at the good you HAD. If being happy with him again (changed situations) it should be worth it to TRY. IT sounds to me you're not trying. 

And by trying, I'm meaning, doing the same ol same ol. Have you tried relaying this to him? (If I missed it i'm sorry) if so, how many times did you try THAT way... and it fail? 

We tend to go into autopilot and when things come up, we tend to do the same things over and over, expecting different reactions. I forgot what that's called... someone help me out... 

Ok. Think about what DIDN'T work. And think about things that MAY work. Maybe approach him differently? At a different time? Find a better time to talk to him. Do something different to make him see how serious this is. 

I don't know what'll work, I don't know what else to tell you. I'm tired, so I probably could've answered my own questions by reading more thorougly, if that's teh case I'm sorry. 

Just trying to help before I log. 

Good luck.


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## ferndog

Zimablue
I was with my exwife for 20 years. She was my first girlfriend at age 15. We married in2004 at 28. And for 7 years she suffered most of what you do also. She became a walk away wife.
Now I don't know your husband or what he went through but if you have time see this "Prevent my divorce the walk away wide syndrome runs 5:39 on YouTube ". I believe this to be true
My ex was is will always be my first and true love. Most of my behavior was because I lost love for myself not her and we lost the communication . She told me to
Move out for two weeks , she said she was angry at me and that we would be ok. All she needed was space. I did. She then sent me an email saying she wanted a D and that there was nothing I could do about it. I then sent her letters and poems drawings songs etc for a year straight without missing a day.

I know my ex suffered but what she fails to see is that I was suffering too with depression and we both did not realize it. Her leaving me did something to my heart and it made me realize that I always believed in her but I stopped believing in me. I told her I loves her with all my heart and that I would return to her a great man
With ambition
Healthy
Motivated
Hard working
And loving . She did not believe me. But I have made great strides . I finished school and am working. I'm out of debt and I am proud of who I am. I remained faithful to her for 20 years. I am a good man that just lost his way. I will always feel sad that she couldn't see if I really was changing. She just stopped caring, loving me or both.

So your husband if he is anything like me, loves you with all his heart. He just doesn't love himself. He is depressed. And he will attack you verbally to defend himself .you will be unhappy unless you force him to fend for himself. File for a divorce . Throw it at him. Shock him. Blind side him and don't allow him a chance to speak to you. Make him show you he loves you before giving in. It will take time an effort by him. You cannot make him fix himself . Only he can. But forcing him in a position to get out an hope he choses the better road is all you can do.

You'll be surprised at what may happen. You may get the man you once loved so much in him. 

I'm just telling you my experience so you may get an inside to your husband. Talking wont help because he is damaged. if you love him then be strong and leave him and keep an eye on him he may shock you for the better 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl

ZimaBlue said:


> There's that phrase again 'take him'. He walks around the house quite normally just going about his business as if he is a teenager - back on the computer, smoke, beer, bed, repeat. Thanks for the dinner. And cleaning. And doing everything else because I can't be bothered. Well done, nothing wrong with me, why the hell would I need to go to the doctor?


In the above are you saying that he does not do the cleaning or anything else? So you do it all? Just trying to make sure I understand.


ZimaBlue said:


> I think the 'don't care if he lives or dies' is a bit harsh too. If people think I'm a bad wife or bad person for being angry then tough - I've had to put up with this for while now and my whole life will be ruined because he couldn't be bothered to get out of bed.


You are burnt out. That’s clear.
Is he spending a lot of time one the computer every day?


ZimaBlue said:


> Would be good to get advice from people who have been in his situation. I suspect their wives left them long before they realised they needed to sort their act out, although it's the way I have to get across he needs to do something more than NOTHING, w/o getting ignored, or an angry attack response. I'm sick of it.


I’ve been in this situation.. for a long time.

Will go back and read your posts, it’s been a while since I have.


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## ferndog

Best advice i can give is
Write a letter with the demands you want changed ASAP
For him to see a counselor
To look for a job
Stop the drinking and pitty party
To look for a job and help around the house
To basically grow up and be a man
Be a partner
Stop being a son and mother relationship

You need a husband and as long as you put up with it he won't change

Go see that video "walk away wife syndrome on YouTube 5:39 will explain it" you will be shaking your head saying wow that's me!!!!!!!!

Then go to her other videos about can married couples fall in love again 
Yes you can!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It just takes work. Do your part and if he does his then both of you will learn from this and be happy. If he doesn't change then at least you know you warned him and he failed you both.

This isn't a marriage. He is draining you of all your energy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady

I'm a little shocked to see so many people heap all the responsibility for saving the marriage and getting her husband to change (as if that was even possible) on the OP.

She is his wife, not his mother. We don't marry people so we can carry them, we marry for a partnership. Maybe he is clinically depressed, but when does the responsibility fall on him to do something about the state of his life? 

Do depressed people really lose all ability to understand something as simple as a need to work so the mortgage can be paid and food can be purchased?

I also can't imagine trying to have a decent marriage with a compulsive liar, or someone who had no interest in sex. Those two things would be deal-breakers on their own for a majority of people.

OP, you mentioned he'll probably end up living off his parents- give them a call and tell them he needs help, and that they should get him to a doctor. After that, I would leave.


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## ferndog

True 
No one can make any one change and this is not a marriage. He is offering you nothing. It is true you are not his mother but a partner. You have to love yourself enough to let him go. If he seeks help and gets better in the area he needs then there is always hope I guess but that will be on. Him. 
Like I said my ex left me and she gave up on me and I truly changed. Not for her but because she made me see the light. And I knew I was not the partner/person I wanted to be. A year and a half later I still am working and fixing some issues. True change requires time and it is possible.
The next person that becomes my partner should thank my ex wife. Losing her meant a life changing experience .
A positive change at that 
Your H might change or may not. It's really his decision all you can do as a loving wife is point out his faults and leave him alone . He must change for himself not for you.

He may surprise you in a positive way. In all reality I miss my ex so much but living the way we did she was a victim of neglect. That is no way to live. 
She didn't put up with it and neither should you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady

I also want to point out, and tell me if I'm wrong, that from what I have read about WAW syndrome, the wives talk and talk and talk, and it does NO GOOD!

The husband categorizes whatever she says as nagging.

That is when the wife stop bothering to talk anymore, and starts quietly building her life raft.

Weiner-Davis says only ACTIONS can force the husband to pay attention or realize that something is really wrong with the relationship. The only action I know of is to move out and/or file for divorce. Of course, moving out isn't always that easy- financially or otherwise -which is why women plan for it in advance.


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## GetTough

ZimaBlue said:


> For many years I have been unhappy. Whether my husband realises exactly how unhappy, I do not know. But something clicked this week-end, and I realised I have been on this path for many many years. So I found this forum and found out about walk-away-wife syndrome, as I am sure many of you are already aware. It was pretty scary, but reassuring that I wasn't going mad.
> 
> There are reasons, which I won't go into detail here just yet, unless anyone thinks they're relevant, as to why I am unhappy with the way my husband behaves.
> 
> I really want a way out, or some way to in fact communicate that unhappiness to my husband without him going immediately on the defensive out of fear, or - as is the case 99% of the time - just ignoring me, or immediately misinterpreting it as 'nagging'.
> 
> I am probably partly to blame for putting up with the way he behaves for so long - but it has come to point now that I don't see why I should have to any longer. Call it a midlife crisis, or whatever you want. The trigger comes when you try and imagine what your life will be when you're 60/70 and you have nothing to show for your life other than unhappiness and regret.
> 
> I understand if there are any replies, they may be from husbands who have suffered from their wives doing this - my research shows that they don't see it coming. If there are, and you didn't - how would you have preferred your wife to have communicated this to you?
> 
> I don't mind, I would rather know what people think, so go right ahead, don't hold back. There may also be some people out there who have done it and think it's the best decision they ever made.
> 
> Any input would be welcome at this stage.
> 
> Background - married 8 1/2 years, together for 19, no kids.


This happened to me. It is totally devastating. Not just the fact that learning the love is gone, but learning that feelings that should have been expressed, weren't. If you are feeling that the marriage is on the line. YOU SHOULD EXPRESS THAT. You have a duty to your husband to at least do that. Then if you love him, give him a chance to become the man you married. He can do it, he'll have a LOT of work to do on himself, and he'll have to commit to that. It's not easy, but it's possible. How would I have wanted my ex to communicate it to me? Shout at me, walk out, emphasize the crisis, do WHATEVER IT TOOK to get to me to realize how serious you are, and what's at stake here. Tell him that you're falling out of love with him, unless he changes BIG-TIME. Write a singles ad, saying what kind of guy you want and show it to him. Tell him you're ready to post it. Don't pull any punches. MAKE. HIM. SEE. That's how.


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## VFW

I think I must be missing something here, please set me back on the straight and narrow path. He is lazy, has a temper, sex 3 times in 8 1/2 years. It astounds me that this relationship has lasted this long. My advise to you is do both of you a favor and just be very, very, very honest and tell him how you feel. At this point, he can not be surprised that you want out and if he doesn't, it really doesn't matter. You would be doing both of yourselves a favor by being honest and just pull the band-aid off fast and move on as quickly as possible.


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## pink_lady

GetTough said:


> This happened to me. It is totally devastating. Not just the fact that learning the love is gone, but learning that feelings that should have been expressed, weren't. If you are feeling that the marriage is on the line. YOU SHOULD EXPRESS THAT. You have a duty to your husband to at least do that. Then if you love him, give him a chance to become the man you married. He can do it, he'll have a LOT of work to do on himself, and he'll have to commit to that. It's not easy, but it's possible. How would I have wanted my ex to communicate it to me? Shout at me, walk out, emphasize the crisis, do WHATEVER IT TOOK to get to me to realize how serious you are, and what's at stake here. Tell him that you're falling out of love with him, unless he changes BIG-TIME. Write a singles ad, saying what kind of guy you want and show it to him. Tell him you're ready to post it. Don't pull any punches. MAKE. HIM. SEE. That's how.


This is good clear-cut advice.

So, instead of asking husband about his progress on the job front (when you both know he hasn't made any effort) or his plans for future earnings, or attempting to plan a future together, or asking over and over again to do things out of the house together (and being ignored) you simply say, "Look. This marriage is in danger of implosion. I've been thinking about a separation, and I've been looking at apartments. Here is what I need from you. NOW."

Or is that even enough to make him see? Do you need to actually leave instead of just threatening to leave? 

I don't think the typical WAW realizes her husband will be devastated by her leaving- since the wife has tried and tried for more closeness or caring or grown-up responsibility and gotten nowhere. I guess I can't imagine mine would be because he seems so completely self-absorbed and generally just wants to be left alone to do his own thing without being 'nagged' to y'know, get a job, plan a future with me, spend time with me or show me more respect. It doesn't seem to me like it will affect him that much if I remove myself from the marriage. But I guess I'll find out.


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## ferndog

GetTough said:


> This happened to me. It is totally devastating. Not just the fact that learning the love is gone, but learning that feelings that should have been expressed, weren't. If you are feeling that the marriage is on the line. YOU SHOULD EXPRESS THAT. You have a duty to your husband to at least do that. Then if you love him, give him a chance to become the man you married. He can do it, he'll have a LOT of work to do on himself, and he'll have to commit to that. It's not easy, but it's possible. How would I have wanted my ex to communicate it to me? Shout at me, walk out, emphasize the crisis, do WHATEVER IT TOOK to get to me to realize how serious you are, and what's at stake here. Tell him that you're falling out of love with him, unless he changes BIG-TIME. Write a singles ad, saying what kind of guy you want and show it to him. Tell him you're ready to post it. Don't pull any punches. MAKE. HIM. SEE. That's how.


I cannot agree more.
So many walk away and the H feels so devastated because he usually does love the W. he will try and try to fix it and genuinely return to being a great partner. Actions work, words don't. I just don't know what happens when and if he does change what the W feels? Someone once told me that it does not matter how much a man changes and fixes his issues. The W will always view him for what he was not for what he became. And then the H becomes a great partner to someone else.

Divorce should be the last option I think
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady

So basically, the wife needs to take major action, like moving out, while she's still open to saving the marriage.

This pretty much sucks, since it takes a lot of money and effort to move out of your home, just to send a clear message of distress to your husband. You can see why the wives would rather wait until they are really ready to fly the coop for good.


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## GetTough

pink_lady said:


> This is good clear-cut advice.
> 
> So, instead of asking husband about his progress on the job front (when you both know he hasn't made any effort) or his plans for future earnings, or attempting to plan a future together, or asking over and over again to do things out of the house together (and being ignored) you simply say, "Look. This marriage is in danger of implosion. I've been thinking about a separation, and I've been looking at apartments. Here is what I need from you. NOW."
> 
> Or is that even enough to make him see? Do you need to actually leave instead of just threatening to leave?
> 
> I don't think the typical WAW realizes her husband will be devastated by her leaving- since the wife has tried and tried for more closeness or caring or grown-up responsibility and gotten nowhere. I guess I can't imagine mine would be because he seems so completely self-absorbed and generally just wants to be left alone to do his own thing without being 'nagged' to y'know, get a job, plan a future with me, spend time with me or show me more respect. It doesn't seem to me like it will affect him that much if I remove myself from the marriage. But I guess I'll find out.


When a woman walks out, it puts a man in a real bind. He usually wants her back badly, but expressing that in a way that is attractive to her, and does not turn her off, is very difficult. Loss of trust is a slippery slope that gets increasingly steep and is difficult to recover from. Separation proper, is dangerous for these reasons.

Your best bet is to emphasize that you are committed to trying for the marriage but tell him you absolutely MUST HAVE certain behavior changes for the marriage to work. If that means he has to happily spend time with you X hours a week, and enjoy your company, tell him that. If he has depression or addiction/other issues then insist that HE MUST FIX THOSE for the marriage to work, and you will help him.

Ultimately though, yes if none of this warning shakes the guy into action, you'll eventually have to escalate to the point of moving out.


----------



## This is me

GetTough said:


> This happened to me. It is totally devastating. Not just the fact that learning the love is gone, but learning that feelings that should have been expressed, weren't. If you are feeling that the marriage is on the line. YOU SHOULD EXPRESS THAT. You have a duty to your husband to at least do that. Then if you love him, give him a chance to become the man you married. He can do it, he'll have a LOT of work to do on himself, and he'll have to commit to that. It's not easy, but it's possible. How would I have wanted my ex to communicate it to me? Shout at me, walk out, emphasize the crisis, do WHATEVER IT TOOK to get to me to realize how serious you are, and what's at stake here. Tell him that you're falling out of love with him, unless he changes BIG-TIME. Write a singles ad, saying what kind of guy you want and show it to him. Tell him you're ready to post it. Don't pull any punches. MAKE. HIM. SEE. That's how.


Me too. Absolutley right. It is not that she is nagging, it is that she clams up and makes him think everything is fine while she builds up resentment. From this guys POV it is unfair to be blindsided and not give the marriage the effort and respect it deserves. But I also understand it is a form of depression.


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## ferndog

I will try to paint a picture for you but ultimately it's your decision and H to see if the marriage is saveable. 8.5 years of no affection, lack of communication , trust, etc. you don't have a partner. You have a person you once loved very much but he is sucking you dry. Your energy and love along with finances are being used by a person that was accustomed to this.

You have suffered and been victimized by the very person that promised to love and protect you and he lost his way. He will continue to do this not because I say but because of his track record. A simple talk won't make him change. This is why some say action works . Moving and filling for divorce should be the last option but you should be loved and your H is being selfish.
He does not know of course but he is. 
Heres a suggestion. Sit him down . (be prepared with a list of questions, suggestions, what's lacking in the marriage, how you feel, what you need etc). Tell him that if he is willing to work on his issues. That you will help him as a loving wife. But also let him know you need him to prove it and for him to take steps to fixing his issues (such as work , help around house, sex, communication, affection) you need a partner not a child. 

Be loving but firm. You've suffered enough. Then maybe leave for a weekend without him so he can think about it. Let him know that when u return you either will be ready to work on the marriage and help him with the problems or you'll be ready to file. You must mean it. He will then have no excuses. He will be faced with a big reality check. 

This is just a suggestion of course 
But you are a victim of your love and commitment to him and he is offering you very little if anything. I repeat I once was in his shoes, he may be loving like I am. Maybe he just stopped loving himself.

My new philosophy that I find works for me is this
In order to have a great relationship one must first be comfortable with who they are as a person (work ethic, body image, and something to offer such as love, respect , partnership and some sort of financial stability) then two people who are in this position can join and have a great relationship. 

I will not go into a relationship until my issues are fixed. That's true change. And I hope your HUsband realizes your value and also his and decides to change for the better of both of you.

You must take care of your health now and giving him the ultimatum will mean progress for you in the positive way reguardless of the outcome.
bless you and yours. Your a beautiful person to put up with all this. Which leads me to believe he must have been a great person at one point. 

I'm always pro marriage but reality is right now you don't have one .
You need better now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life

As a wife trying not to be a Walkaway...I have a question to the men who have been on the receiving end of the walkaway:

You all say that _if only_ she had told you..._if only_ she had talked to you and let you know how unhappy she was..._if only_ she hadn't clammed up and pretended everything was fine...

In retrospect, being completely honest with yourselves, were you really open to her? Were you approachable, easy to talk to, nonjudgmental when she wanted to talk to you about her problems, needs, feelings? 

Or were you more like my H, who isn't easy to talk to, who makes me feel bad about making mistakes that are minor or common, who minimizes my problems by saying "if you would just do ____, you wouldn't have that problem"....who ends up making me feel guilty for having certain feelings because he doesn't want to or know how to deal with them?

This kind of behavior is what has made me clam up over the years. I grew tired of being made to feel like what I felt or needed was wrong, irrational, or not important. It had eroded my self worth to the point that I began to believe that what I needed _was_ wrong, irrational, and not important. 

I'm not trying to pin the Walkaway wife syndrome back on the husband completely, but I just wonder if the communication issues I'm having with my H are what causes a lot of other women to clam up and eventually walk away, but the H is oblivious to the fact that he's not _really_ allowing her to give him some warning.


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## ferndog

Waking up to life said:


> As a wife trying not to be a Walkaway...I have a question to the men who have been on the receiving end of the walkaway:
> 
> You all say that _if only_ she had told you..._if only_ she had talked to you and let you know how unhappy she was..._if only_ she hadn't clammed up and pretended everything was fine...
> 
> In retrospect, being completely honest with yourselves, were you really open to her? Were you approachable, easy to talk to, nonjudgmental when she wanted to talk to you about her problems, needs, feelings?
> 
> Or were you more like my H, who isn't easy to talk to, who makes me feel bad about making mistakes that are minor or common, who minimizes my problems by saying "if you would just do ____, you wouldn't have that problem"....who ends up making me feel guilty for having certain feelings because he doesn't want to or know how to deal with them?
> 
> This kind of behavior is what has made me clam up over the years. I grew tired of being made to feel like what I felt or needed was wrong, irrational, or not important. It had eroded my self worth to the point that I began to believe that what I needed _was_ wrong, irrational, and not important.
> 
> I'm not trying to pin the Walkaway wife syndrome back on the husband completely, but I just wonder if the communication issues I'm having with my H are what causes a lot of other women to clam up and eventually walk away, but the H is oblivious to the fact that he's not _really_ allowing her to give him some warning.


Her Words would not have an effect on me. I always felt I was doing what was needed. She once told me "when I stop talking to you that's when I'll stop caring" looking back now I guess this was her way of saying you are losing me now. I didn't see it I wouldn't believe it. So once again I do agree that actions are what's needed. Once she sent me an email asking for a divorce (cause that's how I found out) it brought me to the lowest point of my life and only then did I realize I had lost her. Her actions of giving me no contact no phone calls no anything. She was no longer my partner and I wanted her so bad. So yes. Her words would have no impact. She was neglected and only action made me see my faults,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GetTough

Waking up to life said:


> As a wife trying not to be a Walkaway...I have a question to the men who have been on the receiving end of the walkaway:
> 
> You all say that _if only_ she had told you..._if only_ she had talked to you and let you know how unhappy she was..._if only_ she hadn't clammed up and pretended everything was fine...
> 
> In retrospect, being completely honest with yourselves, were you really open to her? Were you approachable, easy to talk to, nonjudgmental when she wanted to talk to you about her problems, needs, feelings?
> 
> Or were you more like my H, who isn't easy to talk to, who makes me feel bad about making mistakes that are minor or common, who minimizes my problems by saying "if you would just do ____, you wouldn't have that problem"....who ends up making me feel guilty for having certain feelings because he doesn't want to or know how to deal with them?
> 
> This kind of behavior is what has made me clam up over the years. I grew tired of being made to feel like what I felt or needed was wrong, irrational, or not important. It had eroded my self worth to the point that I began to believe that what I needed _was_ wrong, irrational, and not important.
> 
> I'm not trying to pin the Walkaway wife syndrome back on the husband completely, but I just wonder if the communication issues I'm having with my H are what causes a lot of other women to clam up and eventually walk away, but the H is oblivious to the fact that he's not _really_ allowing her to give him some warning.


If one partner wants X (whatever) and the other doesn't want X, almost any disagreement is going to feel like it's judgmental, unapproachable and minimizing needs. Just the fact that you don't agree implies you don't share the same values, and are implicitly judging the other person's. Just the fact that there is a disagreement makes it not fun and makes the other person not want to approach again. Just the fact that one person doesn't want what the other wants is always going to *feel* like a minimizing of needs, especially if its rationalized or defended.

Just as much as the disagreement feels like it's eroding one partners' self worth, what about the other's self-worth? Just as much as the disagreement feels like its' minimizing one person's needs, what about how the others? The fact that two people have different needs and can't talk about them cheerfully together is rarely one partner's fault. When you tell him what you want and he says no, you think he doesn't feel guilty? When you tell him what you want, knowing he wants something different, you don't think that makes him feel like your minimizing his needs? When you tell him what he wants is wrong, you don't think he starts to think, "maybe she's right, maybe I am wrong", leading him to doubt himself?

My point is to deflect blame from one or the other, to the external differences. The problem is rarely "her" or "him". The problem is the external issue that you have differences in needs that are neither of your fault individually. How you battle those differences together, on the same team, is key. Don't blame or complain about each other. Focus on the differences in needs and how they can be resolved. If you have to have his help in working on those differences, and absence of that is a problem in itself, escalate until he sees how serious you are, that this is essential to you. Stand up for your values 1) early and 2) with kindness and strength! Do not compromise on what is important to you! First know yourself and know what you need. Be clear. Then communicate that. And require it, do not allow the situation to leave you feeling you got less that you need. Not to stand up for your needs early, and allow resentment to build, is to let yourself down and chip away at your marriage by inaction.


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## pink_lady

Yeah. I think the men are saying that the only words that will have any impact are 'x has to happen or I will leave and file for divorce'.

At least if you put it that way, they can't say they 'had no idea'.


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## ferndog

pink_lady said:


> Yeah. I think the men are saying that the only words that will have any impact are 'x has to happen or I will leave and file for divorce'.
> 
> At least if you put it that way, they can't say they 'had no idea'.


Yes . Because her H is in denial of how bad things are. She is reaching her breaking point and he may feel things are not as bad. 
The wife syndrome video on YouTube 5:39 hits it right on
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith

when my youngest is in college i can totally see myself waking up the next morning, packing my stuff, kissing him goodbye and going on my way. Hes not a bad person and niether am I. We just arnt what I need us to be. I can see him being totally shocked by my action even though Ive communicated my needs. Que Sera, Sera.

good luck


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## ferndog

janesmith said:


> when my youngest is in college i can totally see myself waking up the next morning, packing my stuff, kissing him goodbye and going on my way. Hes not a bad person and niether am I. We just arnt what I need us to be. I can see him being totally shocked by my action even though Ive communicated my needs. Que Sera, Sera.
> 
> good luck


Sounds like you checked out already. It's gonna be the worst. Maybe you should show him this post. I'm not sure why people do that actually. I guess instead of love, communication , respect an understanding and changes it to resentment and plans to hurt the person they picked as their life partner. I'll never understand how one can plan an exit and betray their partner in such a hurtful way. (unless he is violent of course) . 

Above all else. The most important thing in a marriage is communication. Without it, everything else det irritates
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith

ferndog said:


> Sounds like you checked out already. It's gonna be the worst. Maybe you should show him this post. I'm not sure why people do that actually. I guess instead of love, communication , respect an understanding and changes it to resentment and plans to hurt the person they picked as their life partner. I'll never understand how one can plan an exit and betray their partner in such a hurtful way. (unless he is violent of course) .
> 
> Above all else. The most important thing in a marriage is communication. Without it, everything else det irritates
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



My plan is not to hurt him, but to have some peace and happiness for myself. Maybe that can happen the youngest is only 11. In january we will have been married for 19 years and are no closer to understanding each other than we first met, at least thats the way it seems. 

Marriage is the only thing people think you should continue to work on no matter the outcome. Im just not of that mind. No he doesnt beat me, yell or swear at me, brings his check home, never cheated. We have children at home and they deserve two parents so thats what they are getting.

I find it is the small things that erode a marriage


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## Waking up to life

ferndog said:


> The most important thing in a marriage is communication.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Exactly. It goes both ways. I'm not a Walkaway wife...trying to avoid becoming one...but in my case it's my husband's resistance to communication, his burying his head in the sand about our marriage troubles, minimizing my feelings, etc that have caused me to clam up and harbor resentment over the years. I have a hard time thinking that any Walkaway wife truly NEVER tried to communicate, NEVER told her H she was unhappy in some way, NEVER in any way indicated that anything was wrong before she snaps and decides one morning she hasn't been happy for years and is leaving. In our marriage, I will take the blame for part of the breakdown in communication...but not 100%. It takes TWO to communicate.


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## janesmith

Waking up to life said:


> Exactly. It goes both ways. I'm not a Walkaway wife...trying to avoid becoming one...but in my case it's my husband's resistance to communication, his burying his head in the sand about our marriage troubles, minimizing my feelings, etc that have caused me to clam up and harbor resentment over the years. *I have a hard time thinking that any Walkaway wife truly NEVER tried to communicate, NEVER told her H she was unhappy in some way, NEVER in any way indicated that anything was wrong before she snaps and decides one morning she hasn't been happy for years and is leaving.* In our marriage, I will take the blame for part of the breakdown in communication...but not 100%. It takes TWO to communicate.


EXACTLY!!:iagree:


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## Thundarr

I think the actual words "I'm not happy *and I think I'm ready for divorce*" should be uttered at some point before it's to the point of no return. Notice the "and I'm ready for divorce" is the important addition that many need to hear in order to realise the severity of the problem and not just categorize it with bickering back and forth.

Many walk aways still share some good times which make the partner think it's not so bad. JMO as I'm not a walkaway or victom.


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## MrK

Looks like the OP is gone. Too bad. 5+ pages of armchair psychology will get her nowhere. Here is how you fix your problem:

You pack a bag and leave. And as you're walking out the door, you give him a list of things he needs to do to get you back. And you tell him not to even talk to you until he starts at least half of them. I can GUARANTEE he will not change until life kicks him in the nuts. GUARANTEE. All of the jaw-jaw in the world won't make him change. It hasn't yet, has it? A quick blow to the gut MAY. If not, it's time to leave anyhow.

Unfortunately, wives wait until they are actually LEAVING before they leave. A hard, direct shot across the bow can change him. Unfortunately, it's usually too late before they try.

Good luck.


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## MrK

And although I will admit to a little skimming instead of in-depth reading, the thread veered towards a little "how is it POSSIBLE he doesn't know how I feel"? This thread was good on that score.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...on/60413-angry-spouses-why-you-surprised.html


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## ET1SSJonota

Something that bothers me throughout this thread is complete lack of discussion of what "commitment" means. Do divorces happen? Sure. So do suicides. It doesn't mean that it should be the "easy way out". 
When I got married, I made vows, and I meant every one of them. That meant, to me, that there had to be some serious duress to have me "walk away" - and I expect that from my spouse too. Being "unhappy" with the other doesn't mean you walk away - it means you find a solution. And solutions ALWAYS start with ourselves. I'm the first one to admit that - I can't fix a problem without first trying to find out how I personally affect the problem.
That people sit back and "bide their time" whilst preparing to leave, all to make the impact of that leaving even softer, is disgusting to me. It is that kind of thinking that SCARES the ever-loving bejebus out of me. Everyone has issues - there is no magic fairy tale person out there. You have to work at it. You have to continually build it. And there WILL be periods of what could easily be termed suffering. And if you go through it _together_ you come through it stronger.


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## ferndog

Thundarr said:


> I think the actual words "I'm not happy *and I think I'm ready for divorce*" should be uttered at some point before it's to the point of no return. Notice the "and I'm ready for divorce" is the important addition that many need to hear in order to realise the severity of the problem and not just categorize it with bickering back and forth.
> 
> Many walk aways still share some good times which make the partner think it's not so bad. JMO as I'm not a walkaway or victom.


100% percent correct. Why wait and make ones mind up without letting the other person know what's coming
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith

If you think feeling so crushed and defeated trying to get your needs met that you think the only way out of the pain is to make a change so significant that everyone around you will be affected....is the EASY way out? then you have never been where i am and thats okay. Whats "disgusting" to me is that partners have needs that the other isnt willing to meet and people just expect folks to stick around for that. GTFOH.


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## ferndog

janesmith said:


> My plan is not to hurt him, but to have some peace and happiness for myself. Maybe that can happen the youngest is only 11. In january we will have been married for 19 years and are no closer to understanding each other than we first met, at least thats the way it seems.
> 
> Marriage is the only thing people think you should continue to work on no matter the outcome. Im just not of that mind. No he doesnt beat me, yell or swear at me, brings his check home, never cheated. We have children at home and they deserve two parents so thats what they are getting.
> 
> I find it is the small things that erode a marriage


So you plan on being with your H for the next 7 years (till your son is 18 and goes to college). Then you plan on divorcing him????????
So you plan on living a lie for 7 years????? Maybe you should tell him this " in 7 years I will divorce you, so I just don't want to shock you when it comes ."

That would prepare him
For what's coming . Who knows he may change the small things and you can gain the respect for him you once had because its obvious that's gone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith

I already told him once i was sticking it out for the kids, when that last one was born. been there done that.


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## ET1SSJonota

janesmith said:


> If you think feeling so crushed and defeated trying to get your needs met that you think the only way out of the pain is to make a change so significant that everyone around you will be affected....is the EASY way out? then you have never been where i am and thats okay. Whats "disgusting" to me is that partners have needs that the other isnt willing to meet and people just expect folks to stick around for that. GTFOH.


Yes. I do think that is the easy way out. Because it doesn't "solve" anything, and just makes you "feel better". What happens when the exact same thing happens with the next "love". Also, the 7 yr prep you allude to makes it seem just that much easier.
Did you throw a caveat in your marriage vows about how if he didn't meet your specific needs, you'd walk out? I better check my transcripts on mine...


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## ferndog

janesmith said:


> I already told him once i was sticking it out for the kids, when that last one was born. been there done that.


Like I posted before take 5:39 minutes of your life and see the "walk away wife syndrome" video on YouTube it may explain perfectly what you are going through and what he is going through. Maybe even watch it together
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2betex

rj700 said:


> You shouldn't have to put up with it any longer. But you have for so many years - you've trained him to think it is ok. You've trained yourself to accept it - taking the easier path, the one of least resistance. So now you are thinking the easier path is just to walk away. It probably is the path of least resistance. Perhaps you could fight for your own happiness. Even if you lose the battle with him, you might learn some valuable lessons for your future happiness. You definitely shouldn't stay with the status quo. But what's the downside to giving it an *honest* try?


Ok, I get the reason for staying, I did it with my wife for 28 years and we knew for the last 10 or so it was just a facade. We stayed together, because it was "comfortable".. 

Now I have met a girl who some say her life is a total mess, kids, ex husband, bancruptcy, all sorts of crap but it does not matter to me. 

I may get crushed, hurt, crapped on but I have not felt these feelings in so long I am addicted to it. I am willing to take a huge chance and go through this again.. I feel like I am on druges but I am much wiser now, and can handle what is going to happen. I am taking the risk, good or bad... Just to have these feelings again....


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## Thinkitthrough

An issue here, that goes unmentioned is the differences in how men and women understand and percieve emotion and language. It can be as simple as men domn't communicate so well face to face, we do better side to side. Women can process 200 some odd variations in emotional reactions on faces, and do so faster and more accurately than men. Men, can generally process 6 to 10 and then you have men like me, I had no ability to see emotions. If my wife has an issue, she tells me about it in the most concrete way she can and I must think about what I know about here to figure out what she is feeling. It is difficult and hasn't always succeeded, includling 2 separations, but after 37 years, we are still together.


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## ferndog

2betex said:


> Ok, I get the reason for staying, I did it with my wife for 28 years and we knew for the last 10 or so it was just a facade. We stayed together, because it was "comfortable"..
> 
> Now I have met a girl who some say her life is a total mess, kids, ex husband, bancruptcy, all sorts of crap but it does not matter to me.
> 
> I may get crushed, hurt, crapped on but I have not felt these feelings in so long I am addicted to it. I am willing to take a huge chance and go through this again.. I feel like I am on druges but I am much wiser now, and can handle what is going to happen. I am taking the risk, good or bad... Just to have these feelings again....


Just take it slow . I'm sure you have not been with her even one year and your totally in love (more like infatuated) why are people afraid to be alone for a little while and really get to know themselves. Then they can become a great partner that knows what they want and can give the other a true complete person. With time you may realize you jumped the gun. Her flaws will appear. Just take it slow
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## janesmith

ET1SSJonota said:


> Yes. I do think that is the easy way out. Because it doesn't "solve" anything, and just makes you "feel better". What happens when the exact same thing happens with the next "love". Also, the 7 yr prep you allude to makes it seem just that much easier.
> Did you throw a caveat in your marriage vows about how if he didn't meet your specific needs, you'd walk out? I better check my transcripts on mine...


1. we can agree to disagree on whats "easier".
2. I can tell you without hesitation that i.will.never.be.married.again.

3. to me and you may not agree and thats fine....a relationship is about getting your needs met and meeting someone elses. thats my perspective and im okay with it.

4. there you go with that "easier" thing again. wasting 7 more years of my youth is not easy. we are going to have to agree to disagree on that one as well 

we either fix it or agree to move on. you cant fix a problem you dont acknowledge and so far im the only one acknowledging. Im all set with that. Im just not willing to do anything until my children are out of the house.


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## janesmith

ferndog said:


> Like I posted before take 5:39 minutes of your life and see the "walk away wife syndrome" video on YouTube it may explain perfectly what you are going through and what he is going through. Maybe even watch it together
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


thanks for this. ill watch it as soon as i get home from work. another reason im pissy as hell, lol. Im sorry to anyone in advance if i come off as....well.....*****y. Its not my intention


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## ferndog

Thinkitthrough said:


> An issue here, that goes unmentioned is the differences in how men and women understand and percieve emotion and language. It can be as simple as men domn't communicate so well face to face, we do better side to side. Women can process 200 some odd variations in emotional reactions on faces, and do so faster and more accurately than men. Men, can generally process 6 to 10 and then you have men like me, I had no ability to see emotions. If my wife has an issue, she tells me about it in the most concrete way she can and I must think about what I know about here to figure out what she is feeling. It is difficult and hasn't always succeeded, includling 2 separations, but after 37 years, we are still together.


Yes because you both don't shut down. Communication is the key . I have learned this the hard way won't make the same mistakes. I'm sure you both are still together because no matter what the issues were, you never lost respect. Congratulations
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

janesmith said:


> thanks for this. ill watch it as soon as i get home from work. another reason im pissy as hell, lol. Im sorry to anyone in advance if i come off as....well.....*****y. Its not my intention


Nope don't be sorry about that at all. It's better to be mad but talking than to hold it in 
We all want what's best for everyone here. It's not like if I'm an expert lol
I just know why my marriage failed and try to give my point of view if it may save yours or any others. (and my own if I ever get married again, which one day will be my goal)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2betex

ferndog said:


> Just take it slow . I'm sure you have not been with her even one year and your totally in love (more like infatuated) why are people afraid to be alone for a little while and really get to know themselves. Then they can become a great partner that knows what they want and can give the other a true complete person. With time you may realize you jumped the gun. Her flaws will appear. Just take it slow
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have known her for a couple of years and yes she is flawed.. I was infactuated, now I have slowed it down, and am taking it slow, we are just friends now and have never been intimate. Heck I would not know how it has been so long since I have been intimate with anyone. I think we both scare the hell out of each other, as we keep pushing each other back and still keep in contact. One think, to know is she live in Texas and I live in Washsington State, We have always kept in touch, why I do not know but we do. We both have questioned this. Why have we talked to each other for the last 8 months, and she wanted to see me this Xmas. So I saw her and met her kids. A big step but a step any how. She is flying back tonight and I will be taking her to the airport. Why? She asked me to, we have snow and I grew up in MI. So snow is not big deal drive in to me.


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## ferndog

2betex said:


> I have known her for a couple of years and yes she is flawed.. I was infactuated, now I have slowed it down, and am taking it slow, we are just friends now and have never been intimate. Heck I would not know how it has been so long since I have been intimate with anyone. I think we both scare the hell out of each other, as we keep pushing each other back and still keep in contact. One think, to know is she live in Texas and I live in Washsington State, We have always kept in touch, why I do not know but we do. We both have questioned this. Why have we talked to each other for the last 8 months, and she wanted to see me this Xmas. So I saw her and met her kids. A big step but a step any how. She is flying back tonight and I will be taking her to the airport. Why? She asked me to, we have snow and I grew up in MI. So snow is not big deal drive in to me.


I wish both of you the best no matter what choices you make
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2betex

Thinkitthrough said:


> An issue here, that goes unmentioned is the differences in how men and women understand and percieve emotion and language. It can be as simple as men domn't communicate so well face to face, we do better side to side. Women can process 200 some odd variations in emotional reactions on faces, and do so faster and more accurately than men. Men, can generally process 6 to 10 and then you have men like me, I had no ability to see emotions. If my wife has an issue, she tells me about it in the most concrete way she can and I must think about what I know about here to figure out what she is feeling. It is difficult and hasn't always succeeded, includling 2 separations, but after 37 years, we are still together.



I get what you are saying. In my past life, one thing we had challenges with was I am emational Italian, Brazilain guy.. I usually said what was bothering me, and Jan woul dsay lets talk alter and that would bever come then at some point she would explode with all the ammo she had been storing. We went to MC a few times and tried realhard to worlk it out but we decided that we could not spend the rest of out loves in this arrangement. I do belei in trying your best to figure it out. However at some point you have to make the decision.


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## GetTough

janesmith said:


> when my youngest is in college i can totally see myself waking up the next morning, packing my stuff, kissing him goodbye and going on my way. Hes not a bad person and niether am I. We just arnt what I need us to be. I can see him being totally shocked by my action even though Ive communicated my needs. Que Sera, Sera.
> 
> good luck


If he doesn't know the marriage is on the line, and he doesn't know he's losing your love, you've not communicated your needs either fully or sufficiently, imo. I think saying you've communicated your needs in this situation is a total cop out! It's rationalizing your decision to make the wrong choice - the choice to not fully open up to the key person to help you. Some would say that you're willing to let marriage die because you're unwilling or unable to speak up, stand up for your needs, and share the depth of your pain and --importantly-- the likely consequences openly.

Tell me, what use is it if I walk into my regular doctor with a bullet in my chest, tell him I have more chest pain than normal and he sends me out with an increased dose of my angina medication?


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## janesmith

I dont know how many more times i can say i have told this dude how i feel


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## GetTough

MrK said:


> Unfortunately, wives wait until they are actually LEAVING before they leave.


This.

I can understand why, and I can understand it's not easy. But people who don't stand up STRONGLY for their essential needs in a relationship carry a large part of the blame for breaking the relationship.

*Of course* the marriage will die if you let yourself live a life that erodes your core values.


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## GetTough

janesmith said:


> I dont know how many more times i can say i have told this dude how i feel


So how does talking get your needs met? How is that standing up for your needs? Standing up for your needs when you realize talk is futile, which I assume happened a decade ago, means taking action that actually gets your needs met.


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## GetTough

janesmith said:


> If you think feeling so crushed and defeated trying to get your needs met that you think the only way out of the pain is to make a change so significant that everyone around you will be affected....is the EASY way out? then you have never been where i am and thats okay. Whats "disgusting" to me is that partners have needs that the other isnt willing to meet and people just expect folks to stick around for that. GTFOH.


This I can empathize with. It's not easy. It's really really hard. I feel for you and I can see what you are saying. You hope things will get better, and you keep hoping. 

Sometimes one has to make a stand though. In life, I believe a person should never compromise their core values. If they are violated I believe that person should act immediately to prevent recurrence. Just leave the house for a few days if talk has previously proven futile. Give a strong verbal warning of possible separation to back it up. Relationships can be repaired much more quickly and easily that way. Years of resentment? Much more difficult to repair.


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## ferndog

It was so scary, so devastating that my ex shocked me with an email asking for divorce after a 20 year relationship (7 years married). She was the love of my life but I did shut down during the relationship. I blamed myself so much for my failed marriage. Then I realized that actions do speak louder than words. When her actions were to divorce me I saw my flaws and I decided be better. A year later I now love myself again 
It took hard work dedication and focus but I climbed out of that depression 
I like to think that I didn't fail my marriage, marriage failed me because I was always willing to try. Divorce was never ever in my vocabulary. 
I don't hate my ex at all, I love her and I just am dissapointed that she stopped believing in me and instead will wind up with someone that cannot possibly love her as much as me. Maybe I was immature and not ready for marriage at the time but my love was always true. My faithfulness as a little boy at 15 till she gave up on me at 35. Through her mothers death and my own (which I feel now had a lot to do with my depression). 
I have been alone for almost two years because I am not at my best and want to be . I don't want my next or myself to get cheated out of all I can be 

In rare occasions I open my heart and I guess I choose to do it here since this post seems abandoned.
If I could tell my ex something it would be this

I was never perfect. I will never be , but my love was. And deep inside my heart you still remain beautiful and loyal and faithful as ever. Your smile and your footprints still remain in my heart. My fear was not that you gave up on me. My biggest fear now is that I may never give up on you. My body mind and soul were give. To you on 6/12/04 when we married but honestly you had them at 15 when I first saw u. The only thing that remains now is that old MySpace account that you also avandoned so long ago . But I don't hate you, I love you and I would of always been there. Wether you were in a comma, in a wheel chair or worse because love like mine is the strongest and pure. So as a tribute to that I continue to get better and I will always care for my next lover, friend, partner. And I will never stop watering her with love like I once stopped with u. I will love her when she comes.


Sometimes I feel so ashamed and embarrassed to be divorced but it was never my choice 


I guess this is why I care so much and try to help the best I can in the walk away wife posts. I once pleaded with someone to talk to their husband before she filed. They went out to dinner . She emptied her heart and told him she was leaving because he just didn't give her what she wanted and that he wouldn't change. Her pain must have finally broken in that wall in his heart and they are now happy. Because he was able to feel her love again.
The magic of love sometimes is greater than the spell of loneliness .


Good luck all and never ever stop communicating. Good or bad but include your partner 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

Fern, I hope your story is seen by potential walkaways.


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## ferndog

Thundarr said:


> Fern, I hope your story is seen by potential walkaways.


I hope so too. I feel many walk away thinking their H doesn't love them or don't want to work on the marriage . I don't know about their cases but in mine it was simply that I did not know how . I was lost. And my wife walking away broke me and I saw my faults . So here I am rebuilding myself and just wishing she would have stayed to love me like I love her. 

Walking away is so devastating. I still can't believe it sometimes. So I try not to think about her. Just hard sometimes knowing your life partner is gone and yet still on earth ;(
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby

ferndog said:


> I once pleaded with someone to talk to their husband before she filed. They went out to dinner . She emptied her heart and told him she was leaving because he just didn't give her what she wanted and that he wouldn't change. Her pain must have finally broken in that wall in his heart and they are now happy. Because he was able to feel her love again.
> The magic of love sometimes is greater than the spell of loneliness _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is good work ferndog. You never know, this may have been the first time she really spoke to him in a direct fashion. Sometimes people confuse complaining to their friends or having their minds read with direct heart to heart communication. On the other hand, maybe she was able to understand that her husband was hurting also and there were two people involved in the dynamic she found so intolerable. There are a lot of reasons people get to the end of their rope in relationships and it is very rarely completely one sided.


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## Ostera

ferndog said:


> Just take it slow . I'm sure you have not been with her even one year and your totally in love (more like infatuated) *why are people afraid to be alone for a little while and really get to know themselves*. Then they can become a great partner that knows what they want and can give the other a true complete person. With time you may realize you jumped the gun. Her flaws will appear. Just take it slow
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My problem exactly.. I left a 2.5 yr relationship that was terrible in 2009. 3 months later I got involved with a gorgeous woman who I had known casually for several years before that.

Turns out she has severe personality issues and is a serial cheater to keep her seifesteem up. 

We married in 2010 and are divorcing here shortly.. she left in September and is already playing the field.


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## Waking up to life

ferndog said:


> I hope so too. I feel many walk away thinking their H doesn't love them or don't want to work on the marriage . I don't know about their cases but in mine it was simply that I did not know how . I was lost. And my wife walking away broke me and I saw my faults . So here I am rebuilding myself and just wishing she would have stayed to love me like I love her.
> 
> Walking away is so devastating. I still can't believe it sometimes. So I try not to think about her. Just hard sometimes knowing your life partner is gone and yet still on earth ;(
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Looking back, short of simply walking out and wanting a divorce, what would it really have taken for her to get your attention? Would her asking you to go to MC have woken you up? From what I'm reading, everyone says talking doesn't work...action does. But the action (leaving) leaves the H dumbfounded and saying "if she would've only given me a chance..." I am asking for your honest hindsight, having been through it yourself. I'm trying to avoid becoming a walkaway, but I'm confused by the conflicting statements made here that talking, asking, pleading, or even the W making positive changes for herself hoping the H will see it don't work, but the walkaway wife gets strung up for doing what she feels is the only option left. Truly...help me understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ten_year_hubby

Waking up to life said:


> From what I'm reading, everyone says talking doesn't work...action does. But the action (leaving) leaves the H dumbfounded
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This advice directly applies to practicing alcoholics, drug addicts, compulsive gamblers, serial cheaters, batterers and the like. One should apply it with care in relationships with mismatched needs or attachment styles. Emotional intimacy is only achieved through verbal communication. Taking action rather than talking through things is the opposite of intimacy. That's OK if that's what you want, but sometimes it rings a little hollow when someone destroys what little intimacy they have in their life because they aren't getting as much as they want.


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## ferndog

Waking up to life said:


> Looking back, short of simply walking out and wanting a divorce, what would it really have taken for her to get your attention? Would her asking you to go to MC have woken you up? From what I'm reading, everyone says talking doesn't work...action does. But the action (leaving) leaves the H dumbfounded and saying "if she would've only given me a chance..." I am asking for your honest hindsight, having been through it yourself. I'm trying to avoid becoming a walkaway, but I'm confused by the conflicting statements made here that talking, asking, pleading, or even the W making positive changes for herself hoping the H will see it don't work, but the walkaway wife gets strung up for doing what she feels is the only option left. Truly...help me understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She did suggest marriage counseling and I declined it because I simply did not think the issues were that big. I feel that my ex tried but lacked the communication part of it. She could nt not simply say it clear enough "if you don't go to mc with you you are showing me you don't love me and that you care for me, I love you Fernie but I promise you I will divorce you because I need this to happen . You have two options go with me to mc or you will get divorce papers, I hope you go cause I care and love you"
That would have been a clear message. Instead of that I thought it was all workable . She decided to tell me" go to your brothers house for two weeks , I just need space right now, I promise we will be ok just do this if you love me." a day later I got an email saying

Something like this
Fernie I loved you with all my heart but your actions killed it. I want a divorce and you cannot change my mind. I'm sorry but there is nothing you can do"
I pleaded with her but she did not want anything to do with me. No calls no visits no contact what do ever. 

I just think that men hear different than woman. Woman are not upfront and they put up with a lot. Trust me I feel I had 80% of the faults but in all honesty they were all workable. I never hit her, disrespect her or cheated. They were more like lack of motivation in various areas on my part. 

You should tell your H your needs and wants and that you will help him with that but that he must really make an effort and change or you'll be done. And look him in the eyes tell him and make sure he undedstands
I love you I have always loved you but I'm losing it, and I'm losing respect for you and if things don't change you are going to lose me. I want to try . I want a partner. You promised on our marriage to be my life partner, but your not doing it, you retreated and left me alone and I will divorce you and find someone that means it 

Basically 

Wake him up before he loses you. This is a true chance
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ferndog

I was sick I had depression and I did not see it or know it. She couldn't either. I guess that's where the problem lies. She was being selfish thinking ov herself , her needs, her wants not being met and couldn't see my illness. And I was selfish for allowing myself to get to that point and stopped being her partner.
Both at fault. The problem is. WAW tend to plan the exit and they move on while the H remains trying to save a marriage that's empty. She is gone and he is stunned. He realizes he is alone and he is lost again. If he figures out what went wrong and tries to genuinely fix it, he will get better and be healthy again , if he is codependent (like I was) he will try to get a bother relationship to make up for that lost love. It took hard work and of all my issues the codependency has been the hardest. I have not been with anyone since my ex . The loneliness is hard sometimes but is needed to really appreciate who I am

Hope this helps any of you cause it hurts revisiting. Imagine getting married loving that person with all your heart. Then you go to sleep and your bride wakes you up saying she's leaving. Yes that's exactly what I felt. Cause I was sleep walking through the marriage . She will never understand , believe me, or care about it
So I just try to help you who ever you are. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life

Ferndog...Finally, an answer that makes sense. Thank you for sharing. I know that had to be hard. But it does help me to understand how stern and upfront I need to be with him about this. 

Honestly, if I asked him for MC without an ultimatum and he refused, I'd probably have taken that as 'he doesn't care about our marriage' and left like your W. Now I see that I can't make an unspoken ultimatum. As hard as it will be for me, I have to say it like you just wrote. I'm not used to speaking up for myself, and I'm easily guilted or intimidated by him to back down. I have to be ready to say it like I mean it. Thanks...


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## ferndog

Waking up to life said:


> Ferndog...Finally, an answer that makes sense. Thank you for sharing. I know that had to be hard. But it does help me to understand how stern and upfront I need to be with him about this.
> 
> Honestly, if I asked him for MC without an ultimatum and he refused, I'd probably have taken that as 'he doesn't care about our marriage' and left like your W. Now I see that I can't make an unspoken ultimatum. As hard as it will be for me, I have to say it like you just wrote. I'm not used to speaking up for myself, and I'm easily guilted or intimidated by him to back down. I have to be ready to say it like I mean it. Thanks...


Yes I would turn things towards my ex as if she was at fault. Part of depression I guess. Still no excuse .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Waking up to life

ferndog said:


> Yes I would turn things towards my ex as if she was at fault. Part of depression I guess. Still no excuse .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My H is depressed. He denies it, I've told him he clearly seems depressed to me, but he doesn't think so. (Um...is gaining 120 lbs not enough of a clue?) He has Bipolar 2, which is a milder type of Bipolar, usually exhibiting has long periods of depression with occasional 'normal' or less depressed periods. He isn't treating it right now, because he thinks the medication doesn't help that much anyway. I do think it helps some, but I've learned over the years that some of his behavior has nothing to do with Bipolar, and more to do with childhood issues and deeply ingrained patterns of thinking. Medication would help, but MC is going to be a must as far as I'm concerned.


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## Ostera

Ten_year_hubby said:


> This advice directly applies to practicing alcoholics, drug addicts, compulsive gamblers, serial cheaters, batterers and the like. One should apply it with care in relationships with mismatched needs or attachment styles. Emotional intimacy is only achieved through verbal communication. Taking action rather than talking through things is the opposite of intimacy. That's OK if that's what you want, but sometimes it rings a little hollow when someone destroys what little intimacy they have in their life because they aren't getting as much as they want.


At first my (pretend) wife would be intimate and give me attention.. within a year that went away. When I asked why things changed she said she was just trying to impress me.


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## Ostera

ferndog said:


> Yes because you both don't shut down. Communication is the key . I have learned this the hard way won't make the same mistakes. _Posted via Mobile Device_


What happens though when you meet someone like I did who talked about talking things through, fare fighting when arguing, etc. 

Yet never fought fare, always threatened to leave. Wouldn't talk face to face. We carpooled everyday. She would always say everything is fine... then get to work and blow up my emails with all the issues. 

Get home, try to talk.. she leaves and stays at her daughters house... ends up calling her x and banging him.

Ya, in the beginning you want so much that your partner is telling you how they will 'communicate' with you.. When the rubber meets the road... all those things you were told go right out the window.

that is what I fear will happen again in the future.


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## ferndog

Ostera said:


> What happens though when you meet someone like I did who talked about talking things through, fare fighting when arguing, etc.
> 
> Yet never fought fare, always threatened to leave. Wouldn't talk face to face. We carpooled everyday. She would always say everything is fine... then get to work and blow up my emails with all the issues.
> 
> Get home, try to talk.. she leaves and stays at her daughters house... ends up calling her x and banging him.
> 
> Ya, in the beginning you want so much that your partner is telling you how they will 'communicate' with you.. When the rubber meets the road... all those things you were told go right out the window.
> 
> that is what I fear will happen again in the future.


Every relationship is different. It's obvious she had other issues maybe past hang ups. That never was an issue in ours. My ex was a good woman and I a good man just lost our way . I don't know what to tell you other than next time choose wisely who your partner is and really know them before jumping into a long emotional commitment if she isn't willing to give the same full effort.
I am not worried about finding a good partner. I am gonna take my time to find a great partner that loves me and appreciates me with similar goals and I will love her and appreciate her and be the same honest faithful loving person I was . The worst thing one can hold in is anger and resentment . 
It is obvious that your ex Hurt you and didn't appreciate you but that's been and done. Learn and move on not for her but for yourself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ZimaBlue

ferndog said:


> Zimablue
> I was with my exwife for 20 years. She was my first girlfriend at age 15. We married in2004 at 28. And for 7 years she suffered most of what you do also. She became a walk away wife.
> Now I don't know your husband or what he went through but if you have time see this "Prevent my divorce the walk away wide syndrome runs 5:39 on YouTube ". I believe this to be true
> My ex was is will always be my first and true love. Most of my behavior was because I lost love for myself not her and we lost the communication . She told me to
> Move out for two weeks , she said she was angry at me and that we would be ok. All she needed was space. I did. She then sent me an email saying she wanted a D and that there was nothing I could do about it. I then sent her letters and poems drawings songs etc for a year straight without missing a day.
> 
> I know my ex suffered but what she fails to see is that I was suffering too with depression and we both did not realize it. Her leaving me did something to my heart and it made me realize that I always believed in her but I stopped believing in me. I told her I loves her with all my heart and that I would return to her a great man
> With ambition
> Healthy
> Motivated
> Hard working
> And loving . She did not believe me. But I have made great strides . I finished school and am working. I'm out of debt and I am proud of who I am. I remained faithful to her for 20 years. I am a good man that just lost his way. I will always feel sad that she couldn't see if I really was changing. She just stopped caring, loving me or both.
> 
> So your husband if he is anything like me, loves you with all his heart. He just doesn't love himself. He is depressed. And he will attack you verbally to defend himself .you will be unhappy unless you force him to fend for himself. File for a divorce . Throw it at him. Shock him. Blind side him and don't allow him a chance to speak to you. Make him show you he loves you before giving in. It will take time an effort by him. You cannot make him fix himself . Only he can. But forcing him in a position to get out an hope he choses the better road is all you can do.
> 
> You'll be surprised at what may happen. You may get the man you once loved so much in him.
> 
> I'm just telling you my experience so you may get an inside to your husband. Talking wont help because he is damaged. if you love him then be strong and leave him and keep an eye on him he may shock you for the better
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thank you - I have a few pages to get through, but this is the best reply I have seen to my OP so far. It makes a lot of sense. xx


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## ZimaBlue

pink_lady said:


> I'm a little shocked to see so many people heap all the responsibility for saving the marriage and getting her husband to change (as if that was even possible) on the OP.
> 
> She is his wife, not his mother. We don't marry people so we can carry them, we marry for a partnership. Maybe he is clinically depressed, but when does the responsibility fall on him to do something about the state of his life?
> 
> Do depressed people really lose all ability to understand something as simple as a need to work so the mortgage can be paid and food can be purchased?
> 
> I also can't imagine trying to have a decent marriage with a compulsive liar, or someone who had no interest in sex. Those two things would be deal-breakers on their own for a majority of people.
> 
> OP, you mentioned he'll probably end up living off his parents- give them a call and tell them he needs help, and that they should get him to a doctor. After that, I would leave.


Thanks PinkLady - I was beginning to think I was alone in the wilderness. 

We went to see his parents at New Year and it soon became clear why he was the way he is - his mother. We used to be so close, but she hid for many years some serious mental health issues and it is so hard now to communicate with her on any level. 

It is the lying and the laziness I find hard bear. The lying mostly because it means a lack of respect as if nothing matters, not even me. I may as well not exist.


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## ZimaBlue

pink_lady said:


> So basically, the wife needs to take major action, like moving out, while she's still open to saving the marriage.
> 
> This pretty much sucks, since it takes a lot of money and effort to move out of your home, just to send a clear message of distress to your husband. You can see why the wives would rather wait until they are really ready to fly the coop for good.


This is what annoys me the most. I have held on for so long, just to be treated as if I am a nagging mother to an obstinate child. 

No-one is perfect, but I have gone through what I have done in the last 20 years and my personality and compared it with his many many many many times. He does not come out of it well. And won't change. 

Yes, he may be depressed, but so am I. I cry about 5 times a day because I am living in an awful marriage, we are about to go into financial meltdown (bankruptcy) and he STILL lies in bed all day and plays computer games all night. And he is STILL lying. 

Well good for him being in depression, woohoo, I am depressed as well. And yet if I coped with it the same way he does...it doesn't bear thinking about.


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## ZimaBlue

MrK said:


> Looks like the OP is gone. Too bad. 5+ pages of armchair psychology will get her nowhere. Here is how you fix your problem:
> 
> You pack a bag and leave. And as you're walking out the door, you give him a list of things he needs to do to get you back. And you tell him not to even talk to you until he starts at least half of them. I can GUARANTEE he will not change until life kicks him in the nuts. GUARANTEE. All of the jaw-jaw in the world won't make him change. It hasn't yet, has it? A quick blow to the gut MAY. If not, it's time to leave anyhow.
> 
> Unfortunately, wives wait until they are actually LEAVING before they leave. A hard, direct shot across the bow can change him. Unfortunately, it's usually too late before they try.
> 
> Good luck.


I'm still here. 

I have started my exit strategy. I just wish it was him that would leave not me. But why would he leave when he gets a comfortable bed at home? 

I don't want to play childish games, halfway out the door with a suitcase. That's pathetic. 

I have to say it's probably not going to become a shock to him when I do finally leave. After all, his Mum & Dad only live 30 miles away and he can sponge off them after our house gets repossessed.


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## ZimaBlue

ferndog said:


> I was sick I had depression and I did not see it or know it. She couldn't either. I guess that's where the problem lies. She was being selfish thinking ov herself , her needs, her wants not being met and couldn't see my illness. And I was selfish for allowing myself to get to that point and stopped being her partner.
> [/i][/size]


See this is what I have the problem with. I am sick of thinking myself as selfish. I am a good person. I don't lie in bed all day expecting everything to be done for me. I don't lie to cover up my laziness and narcissistic personality. 

'She couldn't see my needs' - I'm sorry, but the woman was on the brink of divorce from her first love - you don't think she suffered from depression too? Whatever illness you had, she had it too. 

Is this correct? Or wrong? Or will you never know?


----------



## ferndog

ZimaBlue said:


> See this is what I have the problem with. I am sick of thinking myself as selfish. I am a good person. I don't lie in bed all day expecting everything to be done for me. I don't lie to cover up my laziness and narcissistic personality.
> 
> 'She couldn't see my needs' - I'm sorry, but the woman was on the brink of divorce from her first love - you don't think she suffered from depression too? Whatever illness you had, she had it too.
> 
> Is this correct? Or wrong? Or will you never know?


Will I ever know? I'm not sure. I mean we have no communication.
I just know that one day she told me she had made up her mind for divorce and that I had no say in it through an email.
She got me out of the house under false pretense and then dropped that email on me.
For a year I tried to show her my worth. And it didn't bring her back (I went to school, exercise, got out of debt, didn't miss work....,,,I basically grew up) then I realized that I needed to keep growing for myself , no matter if she ever came back. So instead of asking myself things I could never answer such as why would she hurt me so bad, why won't she believe in us etc. I decided to ask the questions that I could change. Such as . What do I like about myself? What don't I like? In what areas can I be more productive and become a better person etc.

So will I ever know???? But when I stopped asking those types of questions. That's when the pain and true sadness began to lift from my Heart. I think because I was once again loving myself for what I had done. Yea it's true. I hit my Rock bottom and instead of turning into the negative route (alcohol, drugs, gambling, sleeping around, etc) I turned into a person that was willing to make true change even if it was hard. Because I knew no matter what, that this road was going to give me the fernie I once loved  and I'm here. 

As far as do I think she was suffering from depression also???? Well I'm not sure. neglected Yes. Saw me as distant yes. Maybe even felt alone at times yes. 

So maybe she was. But then this leads to more questions such as. Here I am depressed and don't know it. My wife leaves me and instead of seeking a new partner. I now saw my illness. I went to therapy and took the long road and still tried to save my marriage. And I'm still loving, caring, faithful, etc

Why would she rush into divorce, (I got the papers a 3 weeks after the email). Then less than 5 months she had a boyfriend? So does this make her codependent??? Maybe she was cheating in me? Maybe she doesn't love me or is just angry towards me? Maybe she just wanted to hurt me? I don't know? But at the very least I know this, she is guilty of giving up on a marriage and preparing for it without warning me. I wish her no ill. She was my beautiful Gladys 
But if I was a fortune teller this is what I see

A man that even if he falls in love again and marries, will once in a while feel bad that his ex thought he was not worth the respect or time to try to save a marriage. I will always have a little crack in my heart. 5, 10, 50 years from now. That little crack will be there. I will forever have 1 failed marriage and I am ashamed at that. I gave my word to be faithful and always love her and I hold those words deal to my heart. 

I think one day she will see her error in judgement. She will never let me know it. But if she ever sees me 5, 10, 30 years from now, she may see the man she wanted and gave up on.

Truth is I don't know how to stop loving her but I have to learn. She is gone . And I have to learn. So I'm trying . Most days I do really well. And some days I miss her so so so so much (my eyes just watered because my heart must have felt those words). But was she depressed????

I ask you, should I try to find out and maybe realize she was cheating on me or worse. Or maybe I'll learn she still loves me but decided to leave me because she thought I would never change?
Or should I continue to focus on myself and keep growing to be healthier and live for my future ?

I think I'll focus on me cause that's success I am guaranteed. I never gave up on her but I now must not give up on myself. 
Sorry for the long post. Just got lost in truth. 

I don't think I'll ever really know why I'm now a divorced man. I have never heard a case such like mine. Where she just leaves but never gives me one good solid reason for it and won't talk to me during those sad days so I could understand why???? I had to learn .

My sister works with my ex. And I ask my sister nothing because...I love myself too much to hurt me
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

ZimaBlue said:


> I'm still here.
> 
> I have started my exit strategy. I just wish it was him that would leave not me. But why would he leave when he gets a comfortable bed at home?
> 
> I don't want to play childish games, halfway out the door with a suitcase. That's pathetic.
> 
> I have to say it's probably not going to become a shock to him when I do finally leave. After all, his Mum & Dad only live 30 miles away and he can sponge off them after our house gets repossessed.


I missed the part earlier about him not providing. Just my opinion, there's no wonder you're not happy with him if he's not working. That's a showstopper for many women and I don't blame them.


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## Blonde

ZimaBlue said:


> I am just angry and annoyed. Is it just a man-child thing just to lie in bed asleep all day?


He could be depressed or have some other medical condition. Would he see a Dr for a checkup?


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## Blonde

Oh, sorry, I'm new and didn't see that this started several months ago and you have already considered depression.


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## ferndog

ZimaBlue said:


> This is what annoys me the most. I have held on for so long, just to be treated as if I am a nagging mother to an obstinate child.
> 
> No-one is perfect, but I have gone through what I have done in the last 20 years and my personality and compared it with his many many many many times. He does not come out of it well. And won't change.
> 
> Yes, he may be depressed, but so am I. I cry about 5 times a day because I am living in an awful marriage, we are about to go into financial meltdown (bankruptcy) and he STILL lies in bed all day and plays computer games all night. And he is STILL lying.
> 
> Well good for him being in depression, woohoo, I am depressed as well. And yet if I coped with it the same way he does...it doesn't bear thinking about.


I love my ex but I'm the first to say I had many faults. I don't blame her for leaving me. She was unhappy and needs to leave (obviously ) I did change (and continue to) cause once the s hit the fan I realized she was right in so many ways. So I agree that u should give him an ultimatetum and stick with it. Depression wins if nothing is done. No excuses.

You've suffered too much for this same routine just as my ex did. He has to love himself enough to change. He will have to mooch of others, live in the street, or deal with his issues. HIS ISSUES. 
I think there is hope but let him stand up on his own. Don't take this moment away from him. Kick him in the butt and stop being his mother. That worked for me!!!! 
To late to save my marriage but I will always thank my ex in a weird way for having the courage to let me go. And I grew and learned from it and am a productive happy individual because of the choices I've made since. If u love him, leave him and just see if he changes
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thisSux

My situation is not dissimilar, my wife of 12 years has been suffering from depression for the last 9 years, on &off. She spends money on god knows what to the point that because i was the one with all the loans i had to declare myself bankrupt. she totally withdrew from me emotionally and physically until I did the same. she started to get help from counsellors and doctors and she has definitely improved, however the biggest improvement came when i told her I was no longer in love with her and thought i should leave.Only at this point did she really understand what her depression and her behaviour whilst depressed had done to our marriage, People who suffer from depression often feel like they don't live in the same world as other people and will genuinely not notice how bad they have let things get. this was 2 weeks ago I'm still moving out but maybe that space will allow my feelings to change, only time will tell


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## ferndog

thisSux said:


> My situation is not dissimilar, my wife of 12 years has been suffering from depression for the last 9 years, on &off. She spends money on god knows what to the point that because i was the one with all the loans i had to declare myself bankrupt. she totally withdrew from me emotionally and physically until I did the same. she started to get help from counsellors and doctors and she has definitely improved, however the biggest improvement came when i told her I was no longer in love with her and thought i should leave.Only at this point did she really understand what her depression and her behaviour whilst depressed had done to our marriage, People who suffer from depression often feel like they don't live in the same world as other people and will genuinely not notice how bad they have let things get. this was 2 weeks ago I'm still moving out but maybe that space will allow my feelings to change, only time will tell


Very interesting post. I believe you mimic my ex wife's feelings an emotions. In her case her love for me is completely vanished. I still love her but learned that I can never return to her since trust and abandonement was the only option for us. I recently got a letter (with no personal emotion attached to it) stating she has put my last belongings in storage and I have till the end of this month to get it. When I opened the letter , I got a sudden rush of emotions of how much I miss her. My eyes watered but within 10 minutes , I was my happy old self. 
I will never know how one can let go of a marriage so drastically but then again I'm
Not looking for the answer. I keep focus on me.

Thanks for your post. I find it valuable
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pink_lady

It's important for everyone to remember that husband/wife love is not unconditional love.


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## Thundarr

pink_lady said:


> It's important for everyone to remember that husband/wife love is not unconditional love.


This is *not politically correct but it completely true*. Husdband/Wife love is NOT unconditional.

I can say my love is unconditional all day long but the truth is cheating and certainly serial cheating breaks that love so it's obviously not unconditional.


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## ferndog

Thundarr said:


> This is *not politically correct but it completely true*. Husdband/Wife love is NOT unconditional.
> 
> I can say my love is unconditional all day long but the truth is cheating and certainly serial cheating breaks that love so it's obviously not unconditional.


Not sure if I agree. I mean my love for my ex is true love. It was build on trust , honesty and respect. Somewhere along the line she divorced me, started a relationship within 3 months of me moving out. She brought that person into what was our house.
That doesn't mean I don't love her. It only means that my absence in the marriage may have made her stop loving me but in the other hand. This doesn't I don't love her. It just means I won't return because I respect myself. Love just doesn't stop. It just gets buried deep in the heart. I may remarry and love my wife and yes deep inside buried I will always love my ex. It's unconditional I just chose to live in the here and now not on the there and what was.
At least that how I view true love. Yet again , she'll never know I love her 
I'll never tell her again
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr

ferndog said:


> Not sure if I agree. I mean my love for my ex is true love. It was build on trust , honesty and respect. Somewhere along the line she divorced me, started a relationship within 3 months of me moving out. She brought that person into what was our house.
> That doesn't mean I don't love her. It only means that my absence in the marriage may have made her stop loving me but in the other hand. This doesn't I don't love her. It just means I won't return because I respect myself. Love just doesn't stop. It just gets buried deep in the heart. I may remarry and love my wife and yes deep inside buried I will always love my ex. It's unconditional I just chose to live in the here and now not on the there and what was.
> At least that how I view true love. Yet again , she'll never know I love her
> I'll never tell her again
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It could be that four glasses of wine has me talking crazy. Or it could be that you still respect your ex and still love her. Her love for you was not unconditional however. Imagine that she had cheated multiple times while you were still together. Or that she..... (I don't know Hates puppies).

Now imagine the same types of things done by your mother, father, daughter, etc to someone. You unconditionally love your children no matter how they treat others.

BUT AGAIN>..... four glasses of wine.... maybe I'm speaking crazy talk.


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## ferndog

Thundarr said:


> It could be that four glasses of wine has me talking crazy. Or it could be that you still respect your ex and still love her. Her love for you was not unconditional however. Imagine that she had cheated multiple times while you were still together. Or that she..... (I don't know Hates puppies).
> 
> Now imagine the same types of things done by your mother, father, daughter, etc to someone. You unconditionally love your children no matter how they treat others.
> 
> BUT AGAIN>..... four glasses of wine.... maybe I'm speaking crazy talk.


Don't know. I can only know about my situation and what I feel . I respected my marriage and I respected her. She may love me or she may not (I don't know and honestly don't care). All I know is that when I married her , in my heart I knew she was my true love . I can't hate or recent her. I love her but I'm also sure another person will come into my life and I will love her too (with time of course). My love was unconditional. The only thing is I do have conditions of wether I would stay with her or not. I'm sure she did too that's why I'm divorced now.
So maybe you do love your ex also you just can't be with her because she broke your moral conditions. 

My ex being with another man now makes it 100% impossible I would never return but my love doesn't stop for her. It just means I can't be with her, I think many can relate. I can only control what I do. So I chose to get better and be a better person. Being honest is one. I don't respect my ex but I do respect what she once was and that's who I love because my love is true and just the same my love will be true to my next partner or else I will never remarry
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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