# Hard time believing it's worth getting married. (as a woman)



## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

I read this on comment on a Yahoo.com article about Gal Gadot's husband being proud he's married to Wonder Woman.

_*"SHOW ME A WOMAN -- ANY WOMAN -- and I'LL SHOW YOU A GUY WHO WAS TIRED OF BANGING HER -- NUFF SAID."*_
and this were some of the responses the comment received: 

_*"That's called marriage."*_ and _*"In other words, men are incapable of commitment in a monogamous relationship."*_

This is the kind of stuff that makes question if it's even worth getting married. Makes me think that most men will eventually cheat anyway so...why bother?! Maybe it's better to face the pain of being alone than the pain of being cheated on. 

Anyway I don't mean to offend any men here so please don't take it personally. I just wanted to rant a bit about this kind of attitude some men seem to have. I know women can be bad too but as a straight woman I tend to focus more on men's behavior. 

Thanks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Marriage is wonderful, truly a gift, if you are married to a good man. Just be selective about the man you accept to marry.

Actually, that could be a good thread: _How to spot a good man_.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

NatashaYurino said:


> I read this on comment on a Yahoo.com article about Gal Gadot's husband being proud he's married to Wonder Woman.
> 
> _*"SHOW ME A WOMAN -- ANY WOMAN -- and I'LL SHOW YOU A GUY WHO WAS TIRED OF BANGING HER -- NUFF SAID."*_
> and this were some of the responses the comment received:
> ...


I sometimes feel the same way. My experiences with people so far have taught me that no one can be trusted. But, I know that that's just most people, and that there are a few good ones out there. I just have to find them 

If I wasn't religious, I would not get married. Outside of moral reasons, there's no point. Never understood why people bother in today's society. But speaking for myself, I'm a monogamous type guy. Only a sleezeball would "get tired of banging" a good woman who loves him.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you look at statistics on infidelity, you will find that women cheat almost as much as men.

About 20% of men cheat and about 18% of women.

You just have to learn to pick carefully. Take time to get to know the person. And structure your marriage to be as affair proof as possible. How do you do that? 

Try what these two book teach:

"Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs"


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NatashaYurino said:


> I read this on comment on a Yahoo.com article about Gal Gadot's husband being proud he's married to Wonder Woman.
> 
> _*"SHOW ME A WOMAN -- ANY WOMAN -- and I'LL SHOW YOU A GUY WHO WAS TIRED OF BANGING HER -- NUFF SAID."*_
> and this were some of the responses the comment received:
> ...


Respectfully have you ever read a political board? Do you think everyone in the world of politics behaves that way? Ever read a sports board? Do you think every sports fan is that way? Why on earth would you judge all men by some numbskulls on some dumb movie blog. The are probably 15 year old children.

I am a man and I have never cheated. Read my posts I rail on cheaters men and women. I absolutely hate that **** with a passion. As far as I know none of my male friends have cheated on their wives, two of them were cheated on though. I was cheated on. All of us survived by the way. One is remarried, and one seems to be on his way to R (though I hope he is not making a mistake, but he will get there as he is really growing as a person either way).

I don't know your story but were you cheated on in the past? Is this part of your fear?

Look the truth is nothing in life is guaranteed, I understand the fear, my Father cheated on my Mother and a bunch of other women. I was cheated on. It is a big risk to put your heart out there. Nothing good in life comes without risk though right?

You can minimize the risk by learning about human nature, reading books about men, talking to good and bad men, reading books about what makes a good marriage, understanding proper boundaries, figure out what you expect and don't settle even once. But most of all looking for character. Character that has nothing to do with your relationship but that is shown in actions that no one really sees. Look for a man who does stuff that you know is difficult and hard that no one sees, only because it is the right thing to do. That will give you a good sense of what kind of man he is. 

If you get to the point were you are happy to be alone it will be much easier to not settle. So work to getting to that place. 

One other thing, you speak about marriage. Marriage is not like Disney, it doesn't happen and then everything is happily ever after. If you think that is what it is then don't get married because you will be disappointed. 

It's more like learning to play the piano. It can be great fun, and very rewarding, but a lot of times it is boring, lots of times it's hard work. You need to practice and continue to work or you can get sloppy and make mistakes. It is usually harder at the beginning, but there are moments when you are playing where it's just fun and freeing. It's two people learning and growing at a skill. When you get really good at it, it brings immense joy and pride to your life. 

Anyway don't give up hope, and please don't judge the world by message boards, if the world was really like it is on the internet it wouldn't last a day. I am sure I would have been punched in the face about 10 times. I would have fought back though. >


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## NatashaYurino (Jan 2, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I don't know your story but were you cheated on in the past? Is this part of your fear


Yes, unfortunately I have been cheated on. You are right this is part if my fear. I was cheated on by a boyfriend and it was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Worse the pain of losing a loved one. 

So sometimes I wonder how much worse it would feel to be cheated on while being married, after years of dedicating yourself to being the best spouse you can be. The feeling that they chose to risk losing everything you built together for years all for the cheap thrill of meaningless sex with someone else just because they are a novelty and you are not.

And thank you the advices, they help a lot. I'll be sure to keep them in mind.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

NatashaYurino said:


> Yes, unfortunately I have been cheated on. You are right this is part if my fear. I was cheated on by a boyfriend and it was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Worse the pain of losing a loved one.


Yep. 

It's a lot easier if you live your life for relationships and for your own personal honor not achievement and things (though those things aren't bad just should not be the motivation only the reward). You dedicate your life and be the best spouse you can be because you love them, and like you do anything in life, because it's the right thing to do not because of the outcome. The truth is we have little control of most outcomes in life. You marry someone because you love them and want to give yourself to them, not because what they give to you. To be able to do that you have to be able to be a complete and confident person, without needing someone. You get ready for marriage by becoming that complete and confident person, not by looking for someone to marry.

Since you are only at stage one, work on becoming that complete and confident self sufficient person. Look you went through the cheating before and you survived, so you can survive it again. But if you have things that bring you joy besides your relationship if it should fall apart losing it won't be so hard. Again it also helps you have the strength not to settle. 

The next step will come for you when you are ready.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I haven't gotten tired of my wife after more than 25 years. I'm not tired of her sexually either, even though she has very little interest in me that way.

OTOH, marriage always comes with the risk of your partner cheating - you can never really know. A lifetime is a long time and comes with many opportunities to do the wrong thing. The only way to be absolutely sure your partner will never cheat is to never be in an exclusive relationship. 

Men and women cheat at roughly equal rates, and I expect many were quite sure that they never would - until they did.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I've experienced the love of men who would never cheat on me. And they never tired of me sexually or romantically. These are long term relationships I'm talking about. They ended for other reasons, sex and monogamy were never an issue. 

There are men who can love completely and for life, without ever getting tired of you. Don't let negative messages to the contrary make you believe otherwise!


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

PS...Paul Newman (sexy hunk from the 70's for anyone too young to know!) once said "why go out for hamburger when I have steak at home?" when asked if he'd ever step out on his wife. They are still married, not sure how long but probably at least 40 years.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> PS...Paul Newman (sexy hunk from the 70's for anyone too young to know!) once said "why go out for hamburger when I have steak at home?" when asked if he'd ever step out on his wife. They are still married, not sure how long but probably at least 40 years.


Sorry to break it to you but they are both dead now, but they were married up until he died so the point still stands.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> PS...Paul Newman (sexy hunk from the 70's for anyone too young to know!) once said "why go out for hamburger when I have steak at home?" when asked if he'd ever step out on his wife. They are still married, not sure how long but probably at least 40 years.


Thing is, he was talking about his second wife, the one he cheated with on his first wife.

I read that he said in an interview that cheating on his first wife was something he continued to feel guilty about years and years later.

He is dead now.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Sorry to break it to you but they are both dead now, but they were married up until he died so the point still stands.


Joanne Woodward is dead now, too? 

Had not heard that.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> Joanne Woodward is dead now, too?
> 
> Had not heard that.


Nope I guess I am wrong, I have a fake memory of her being dead, but maybe that was from the bio of her when he died. She is 87.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Nope I guess I am wrong, I have a fake memory of her being dead, but maybe that was from the bio of her when he died. She is 87.


I heard she has Alzheimer's now.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> Thing is, he was talking about his second wife, the one he cheated with on his first wife.
> 
> I read that he said in an interview that cheating on his first wife was something he continued to feel guilty about years and years later.
> 
> He is dead now.


I didn't know that. I always thought he was a completely stand up guy. :frown2:

Great great actor. Cool Hand Luke is one of the best.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> I heard she has Alzheimer's now.


Age sucks.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I didn't know that. I always thought he was a completely stand up guy. :frown2:
> 
> Great great actor. Cool Hand Luke is one of the best.


Being a cheater does not mean he was not a great actor. 

People can be strong in one area and weak in another.

I think he felt shame his whole life for what he did to his first wife and oldest child. It must have hurt them terribly.

I wonder if Joanne Woodward felt shame?

I wonder how their three daughters felt about what their dad and mom did to his first wife and their daughter. I am not sure the first wife ever remarried.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

NatashaYurino said:


> Yes, unfortunately I have been cheated on. You are right this is part if my fear. I was cheated on by a boyfriend and it was the worst pain I have ever felt in my life. Worse the pain of losing a loved one.
> 
> So sometimes I wonder how much worse it would feel to be cheated on while being married, after years of dedicating yourself to being the best spouse you can be. The feeling that they chose to risk losing everything you built together for years all for the cheap thrill of meaningless sex with someone else just because they are a novelty and you are not.
> 
> And thank you the advices, they help a lot. I'll be sure to keep them in mind.


I can understand your feelings on this but to truly live life to the full you cannot hide from the good and the bad, pain is a necessary part of life, whether it is cheating, loss of life, accidents, etc.

To miss out on having a SO, children, a family of your own is a rather large sacrifice to make to avoid pain. Pain will come in some other form.
My H cheated on me, I am still with him, yes it is painful but I have two beautiful children, a great family and we have built many fantastic memories together. We are still together, I often weigh the pros and cons of leaving and meeting someone new but I do love him, and I would also face the same risk of pain with someone else.

All I am saying is you cannot run away from life.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Natasha, rejection hurts, big time. No doubt about that.

But it need not hurt us our whole life. We can come to view it as a gift, as in life is getting the wrong person out of the way for us so that the right person can come in.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> Natasha, rejection hurts, big time. No doubt about that.
> 
> But it need not hurt us our whole life. We can come to view it as a gift, as in life is getting the wrong person out of the way for us so that the right person can come in.


Before you meet the handsome prince.
You have to kiss a lot of toads.



I was going to say frogs but,you know.......😜


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Before you meet the handsome prince.
> You have to kiss a lot of toads.
> 
> 
> ...


I think it is ok to skip the toads and just wait for the prince. I certainly wish I had.

Natasha, I advised my daughter to focus on her studies. Focusing on your own life and career is a good way to direct your energy. 

Men are going to come. Just be selective as to the ones you let into your life.

To quote a Spanish proverb, _Much better to be alone than with the wrong person._


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I think it is ok to skip the toads and just wait for the prince. I certainly wish I had.
> 
> Natasha, I advised my daughter to focus on her studies. Focusing on your own life and career is a good way to direct your energy.
> 
> ...


If there is one thing I have learned in life it is that you can't buy experience.You need to make your own mistakes and learn from them.Everything that happens in life goes towards making us the person we are now.
You have regrets about not waiting for your prince but isn't it better than wondering if you settled too early.From what I read this is a common occurrence in marriage where one partner feels they missed out on the single life and actively seeks to "even the score".This seems more common in cases where one partner is a few years older than the other and maybe had a lot more sexual partners than the other.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> If there is one thing I have learned in life it is that you can't buy experience.You need to make your own mistakes and learn from them.Everything that happens in life goes towards making us the person we are now.
> You have regrets about not waiting for your prince but isn't it better than wondering if you settled too early.From what I read this is a common occurrence in marriage where one partner feels they missed out on the single life and actively seeks to "even the score".This seems more common in cases where one partner is a few years older than the other and maybe had a lot more sexual partners than the other.


Certainly, hindsight is 20/20.

I am just saying that I wish I had waited.

Natasha, redirecting your energy can be very freeing. It was when I gave up on relationships and just decided to focus on work that my husband sailed into my life. 

After experiencing how easy a relationship is with the right man, I regret ever trying to make one work with any other.

John Gottman, the famous marriage researcher, advises men to attune to their wives. I heartily agree.

If he does not attune to you, please let him go.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> Certainly, hindsight is 20/20.
> 
> I am just saying that I wish I had waited.
> 
> ...


That is a coincidence.After years of constant short term relationships a lot of things happened to me in a short period of time.I hadn't been on a date in about two months and was out walking very early one morning when my now long term gf literally ran into me.I had no interest in dating anyone but here we are.You can meet the right person in the strangest of circumstances.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

Marriage is a gamble these days, if you are lucky enough to find someone to get along with every day that is a plus. 

As for cheating, I believe it's weak, the person is running away instead of facing difficulties at home. 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@NatashaYurino , below is a paste of stats from a single site.:

- In over 1/3 of marriages, one or both partners admit to cheating.
- 22% of men say that they've cheated on their significant other.
- 14% of women admit to cheating on their significant other.
- 36% of men and women admit to having an affair with a coworker.
- 17% of men and women admit to having an affair with a sister-in-law or brother-in-law.
- People who have cheated before are 350% more likely to cheat again.
- Affairs are most likely to occur two years into a marriage.
- 35% of men and women admit to cheating while on a business trip.
- 9% of men admit they might have an affair to get back at a spouse.
- 14% of women admit they might have an affair to get back at a spouse.
- 10% of affairs begin online.
- 40% of the time online affairs turn into real life affairs. 

The above doesn't come from a very reputable source, but IF some parts of it is accurate - then there is some interesting info there (in regards to cheating WITH the SIL or BIL - ewww)

Now from books and other better sources, the number of men who cheat (married or not) is about 65% and women are pretty much the same amount. Especially taking into consideration that women have a mental ability to bend reality more than men (ie: blow jobs are not sex. Ask a man, and we'll differ on that). So depending on country / culture - infidelity hits 30~65% of marriages.

With people I've met IRL and online - the 60% (give or take) cheating men and women seems realistic. WE all have the capacity to cheat. Some of us are better at not doing it than others.
Don't even count yourself as immune to cheating. My wife was pissed when a close family member on her side, cheated on his wife. 4~5 months later, she does it to me. Go figure.

You can try to "pick" Mr. perfect as much as possible. There are no guarantees. There are preachers (married) have sex with married women in their own churches - IN the church itself sometimes. Me, I'm not religious, I'm kinky, into some aspects of BDSM, have experiences doing threesomes - but I never cheated on my wife or past girlfriends. There simply isn't 100% full proof way of knowing.

You said it was very painful. I'd say it's even FAR more painful when it's your married partner and you have kids.
I've been hospitalized twice and spent months on medication to keep my heart from exploding. 180 over 1?? type of stuff. I was monitoring my heart a few times a day. I lost about 30lbs in about 3-4 weeks. It felt like a 400lb weight was on my chest. My head was pounding, I had PTSD pretty bad. I still twitch or have muscle spasms and panic attacks every once in awhile - that I never had before. 

Love is great - but yeah, opening your heart is always a risk in life.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MrsAldi said:


> Marriage is a gamble these days, if you are lucky enough to find someone to get along with every day that is a plus.
> 
> *As for cheating, I believe it's weak, the person is running away instead of facing difficulties at home.*
> 
> Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


*That's largely my RSXW's mantra!

I wouldn't really be all that surprised to learn that she has already cheated on and is in the process of divorcing her new husband #3! Much like she did with her first H, and then later with me!

Sadly, with some people, the ability to employ cheating really seems to be nothing more than just a genetic characteristic!*


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you can be happy without a relationship, then do so. Most people are much happier when they are in a good one. There is always a risk, and never a guarantee - and marriage guarantees nothing. But love does promise everything - you can't always turn that into reality, but many people do. I think it's the risks that make good relationships so precious.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

NatashaYurino said:


> I read this on comment on a Yahoo.com article about Gal Gadot's husband being proud he's married to Wonder Woman.
> 
> _*"SHOW ME A WOMAN -- ANY WOMAN -- and I'LL SHOW YOU A GUY WHO WAS TIRED OF BANGING HER -- NUFF SAID."*_
> and this were some of the responses the comment received:
> ...


The statement is absolutely true and I concur, it is more than nuff said. It speaks volumes about this male's level of maturity and, subsequently, his level of commitment. For any male that is "banging" a woman there will come a point where the situation becomes stale, old hat, tiresome BUT for a MAN who is sharing an intimate experience far beyond "banging", this is not the case. So your issue is not with MEN but rather with males who have not yet, or may never, develope(d) into men. As with the example of Paul Newman. Perhaps in the first marriage he was a male and by the time his second marriage occurred he had become a man. I say perhaps because that is one possibility.

So then, most men and women will never cheat for it is beyond their ability to ignore all of the cognitive reasons not to but almost all males and females will because that cognition has not developed and, sadly, probably never will. Also, the pain one is able to feel when cheated on is directly proportional to the depth of emotion they invest into the relationship.

So then my advice would be to carefully examine any prospective mate for signs of maturity for if you find a man, your marriage will almost certainly be a good one but if you find a male then your chances are very slim to none. Likewise, perform an introspection to determine if you are capable of bringing maturity to any relationship. That is the most prudent way to insure a good marriage.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> If you can be happy without a relationship, then do so. Most people are much happier when they are in a good one. There is always a risk, and never a guarantee - and marriage guarantees nothing. But love does promise everything - you can't always turn that into reality, but many people do. I think it's the risks that make good relationships so precious.


*That may all well be true, MBH, but let's just say that I've encountered and endured "marital risks" enough already in this rather sophomoric lifetime of mine, to even make someone who is in and around the ripe old age of Methuselah, have some rather serious second thoughts of ever getting remarried!

I'm reasonably happy flying solo now, but at the same time, I can get lonely as hell!

Guess that's the reason why God just recently put a big old puppy in my life!*


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *That may all well be true, MBH, but let's just say that I've encountered and endured "marital risks" enough already in this rather sophomoric lifetime of mine, to even make someone who is in and around the ripe old age of Methuselah, have some rather serious second thoughts of ever getting remarried!*


I get that, I surely do. My wife and I were very reluctant to get married - we were (and are) very skeptical of marriage, and don't think it is necessary or advisable, generally. We only married for the practical benefits (i.e., health insurance, which was needed to save her life). We don't regret it - but we'd also divorce for pragmatic reasons, yet stay together. Other than a few benefits, all marriage does is raise the cost and pain of exiting a relationship that should be over anyway.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

No reason for marriage in todays world satisticaly it a poor bet.

At a mimimum a prenup would be advisable ,one thats fair for both and spells out how things will be devided .


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

jld said:


> Being a cheater does not mean he was not a great actor.
> 
> People can be strong in one area and weak in another.
> 
> ...


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TaDor said:


> @NatashaYurino , below is a paste of stats from a single site.:
> 
> - In over 1/3 of marriages, one or both partners admit to cheating.
> - 22% of men say that they've cheated on their significant other.
> ...


Now she won't even want to leave the house. >


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

I've read that married people are happier and often more successful. Marriage gives many meaning in their lives and a desire to provide, protect, and cherish. Caring for another person, and raising children, helps you grow and mature as a person. 

There are many health benefits to marriage as well. 

But you have to really want it and commit. It's surprisingly easy to fall out of love when you disagree on parenting, finances, time together, etc., and when couples fall out of love it opens the door to turning outside of the marriage to have your needs met. This is why many spouses who cheat "affair down." Most are not looking to cheat. They start by confiding in a third person who "gets them," and offers Needs like admiration, respect, attention, sexual flirting...things they are not getting at home.

The success of a long-term marriage IMO comes down to how well you can weather those periods of time when you're only in-like or even in withdrawal from your spouse. Some long-term married couples say this can last months or years. The successful ones pull out of it. The failures cheat and destroy the marriage.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

In some marriages, cheating is the least of the problems encountered... I would not fixate to that alone. Given the rampant spread of mental health issues and stress, the last thing you want is a BSC spouse, cheating or not.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *That may all well be true, MBH, but let's just say that I've encountered and endured "marital risks" enough already in this rather sophomoric lifetime of mine, to even make someone who is in and around the ripe old age of Methuselah, have some rather serious second thoughts of ever getting remarried!
> 
> I'm reasonably happy flying solo now, but at the same time, I can get lonely as hell!
> 
> Guess that's the reason why God just recently put a big old puppy in my life!*


It is no coincidence that mans best friend can't talk.
But he can listen.And there is no better cure for the blues than a puppy licking your face.


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## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

jld said:


> Being a cheater does not mean he was not a great actor.


A lot of cheaters are good actors.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

jld said:


> Marriage is wonderful, truly a gift, if you are married to a good man. Just be selective about the man you accept to marry.
> 
> Actually, that could be a good thread: _How to spot a good man_.


That would be a good thread. How to spot a good man, and why many women act as though a good man is rather boring and would rather take a chance on one with more edge.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MrsAldi said:


> Marriage is a gamble these days, if you are lucky enough to find someone to get along with every day that is a plus.
> 
> As for cheating, I believe it's weak, the person is running away instead of facing difficulties at home.


You think that marriage is a gamble today? Imagine what it was like when your parents picked some guy for you to marry, and you had little to nothing to say about it. And you could not divorce the guy when he turned out to be someone you cannot stand.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

southbound said:


> That would be a good thread. How to spot a good man, and why many women act as though a good man is rather boring and would rather take a chance on one with more edge.


It's probably a pretty similar reason why so many men pass up good women and would rather take a chance on crazy simply because she's far better looking than anyone else who will go out with them.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> You think that marriage is a gamble today? Imagine what it was like when your parents picked some guy for you to marry, and you had little to nothing to say about it. And you could not divorce the guy when he turned out to be someone you cannot stand.


It seems counter intuitive but...

I think maybe it's like a fire, you can have a flash fire where all the heat is at the beginning and it burns out quickly, or you can have one that builds slow and burns long. 

I am with you though I could never do it. You have to depend on your parents not being *******s, and your spouse's parents as well. Though that seems as risky as just waiting to bump into someone. I actually think online dating with comprehensive surveys make a lot of sense, I would have done that if I hadn't met my wife. They were not all the rage yet. My one friend met his wife on there, they seem to be going strong.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

southbound said:


> That would be a good thread. How to spot a good man, and why many women act as though a good man is rather boring and would rather take a chance on one with more edge.


They probably mean a "good man" as opposed to just a "real man". Huge difference.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

chillymorn69 said:


> No reason for marriage in todays world satisticaly it a poor bet.
> 
> At a mimimum a prenup would be advisable ,one thats fair for both and spells out how things will be devided .


Prenups are no longer a protection these days.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Apexmale said:


> Prenups are no longer a protection these days.


I think for average income people prenups thats are fair so neither person takes it on the chin would be worth while.

Your not going to spend thousands of dollers trying to circumvent a fair prenup.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It's probably a pretty similar reason why so many men pass up good women and would rather take a chance on crazy simply because she's far better looking than anyone else who will go out with them.


I am making it clear to my boys that if they just go for looks, they deserve whatever comes along with that. Mom will not be sympathetic.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Staying single is better than a prenup. BUT, you must still be wary about the laws where you live, because simply living together can be a form of entrapment (e.g., Canada). To make wise relationship decisions, you also have to know the law in addition to everything about compatibility, love, biology of attraction, and sex. Society does a poor job of preparing people for relationships.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I am making it clear to my boys that if they just go for looks, they deserve whatever comes along with that. Mom will not be sympathetic.


I am sure you would love to see your son with some bimbo with numerous tattoos and piercings.
With a degree in Japanese animation.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

Apexmale said:


> southbound said:
> 
> 
> > That would be a good thread. How to spot a good man, and why many women act as though a good man is rather boring and would rather take a chance on one with more edge.
> ...


There are still men out there who would not cheat, would not be abusive, has a good job, and is attractive, but it seems like that alone is not enough for women, even though in words they seem tired of the cheaters and liars, but they still need an edge in a guy beyond him being a good man.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I am sure you would love to see your son with some bimbo with numerous tattoos and piercings.
> With a degree in Japanese animation.


I think the use of the word bimbo is sexist. Do we have an equivalent word for men?

Secondly, I was referring to not wanting my boys to prioritize beauty in women over more important qualities that could lead to a happy, satisfying life together. How tattoos/piercings may be related to beauty may be a personal call.

Ultimately their choice of companion is their choice. But they need to realize that choices have consequences. 

And while I will respect their choices, I will not be sympathetic to poor choices. Nor will I try to rescue them from the consequences.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

jld said:


> Andy1001 said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure you would love to see your son with some bimbo with numerous tattoos and piercings.
> ...


I can think of two girls that are now in their 20s. They are extremely attractive and we're raised in good homes. They both married a couple of wild losers and are now in a mess. I will never understand things like this.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

jld said:


> I think the use of the word bimbo is sexist. Do we have an equivalent word for men?
> 
> Secondly, I was referring to not wanting my boys to prioritize beauty in women over more important qualities that could lead to a happy, satisfying life together. How tattoos/piercings may be related to beauty may be a personal call.
> 
> ...


Believe it or not the word bimbo was originally used to describe a man of low intelligence or a bully.
As for current male versions how about himbo.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> Believe it or not the word bimbo was originally used to describe a man of low intelligence or a bully.
> As for current male versions how about himbo.


Never heard of it.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

I guess it is all about the circumstances. It could be worth it and relatively risk free for one of the parties and a horrible idea for the other. If both parties come in as equals financially and with equal SMV it could be OK. If one person makes considerably more than other person forget it. But then circumstances could change where one person could lose their job and can't find one close to what they had and now they are at an advantage. Or one could decide that they want to be a stay at home parent and just quit . I would not advise any man to get married or have kids until the laws have changed around alimony or custody. Way to risky to chance it on modern western feminist women who routinely wake up one day unhappy and can legally wipe you out and take your kids away. I see women routinely on this forum advise other women to do just that.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

southbound said:


> I can think of two girls that are now in their 20s. They are extremely attractive and we're raised in good homes. They both married a couple of wild losers and are now in a mess. I will never understand things like this.


I don't understand why young men make foolish choices, either, southbound. 

Neither sex seems to have a monopoly on foolish decisions.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

southbound said:


> I can think of two girls that are now in their 20s. They are extremely attractive and we're raised in good homes. They both married a couple of wild losers and are now in a mess. I will never understand things like this.


This all boils down to the fact that some people refuse to date other people unless they are very attractive.It is the same for both sexes.I am speaking from a male perspective but the amount of women I have seen refusing to even contemplate going out with a guy because he wasn't as attractive as they wanted is huge.I have known really decent guys with great careers who couldn't get a girl to even have a coffee with them,then some loser with a handsome face comes along and they can't wait to get him into bed.Then a few years down the line they are complaining that there are no decent guys around.
I think a lot of this is peer pressure.A girl might really like some guy but because he isn't exactly handsome she won't date him because her friends will laugh at her.As I said it is the same for both sexes.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Stang197 said:


> I guess it is all about the circumstances. It could be worth it and relatively risk free for one of the parties and a horrible idea for the other. If both parties come in as equals financially and with equal SMV it could be OK. If one person makes considerably more than other person forget it. But then circumstances could change where one person could lose their job and can't find one close to what they had and now they are at an advantage. Or one could decide that they want to be a stay at home parent and just quit . I would not advise any man to get married or have kids until the laws have changed around alimony or custody. Way to risky to chance it on modern western feminist women who routinely wake up one day unhappy and can legally wipe you out and take your kids away. I see women routinely on this forum advise other women to do just that.


I am increasingly of the belief that women would be wise to consider remaining single, self-supporting, and being impregnated through a sperm bank if they want to have children. That way they will have sole authority over any decisions regarding themselves and their children.

The only other option I can see would be to marry a trustworthy man who respects and values women and children.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

jld said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > I guess it is all about the circumstances. It could be worth it and relatively risk free for one of the parties and a horrible idea for the other. If both parties come in as equals financially and with equal SMV it could be OK. If one person makes considerably more than other person forget it. But then circumstances could change where one person could lose their job and can't find one close to what they had and now they are at an advantage. Or one could decide that they want to be a stay at home parent and just quit . I would not advise any man to get married or have kids until the laws have changed around alimony or custody. Way to risky to chance it on modern western feminist women who routinely wake up one day unhappy and can legally wipe you out and take your kids away. I see women routinely on this forum advise other women to do just that.
> ...



Ya ....that would be great. Single mothers have a wonderful track record of raising fine, upstanding , and contributing members of society. Fact is our jails are overflowing with people who are the products of single mothers. Children are way more likely to be abused in a single mom household. Our welfare system is overwhelmingly used on single moms. 
Wow ... on father's day no less.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Stang197 said:


> Ya ....that would be great. Single mothers have a wonderful track record of raising fine, upstanding , and contributing members of society. Fact is our jails are overflowing with people who are the products of single mothers. Children are way more likely to be abused in a single mom household. Our welfare system is overwhelmingly used on single moms.
> Wow ... on father's day no less.


I agree that single mothers, by choice or by circumstance, are capable of producing fine contributors to society. I know some personally.


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## Dannip (Jun 13, 2017)

jld said:


> I heard she has Alzheimer's now.


IMO it's a doctor caused illness. Statin drugs.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

jld said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > Ya ....that would be great. Single mothers have a wonderful track record of raising fine, upstanding , and contributing members of society. Fact is our jails are overflowing with people who are the products of single mothers. Children are way more likely to be abused in a single mom household. Our welfare system is overwhelmingly used on single moms.
> ...



I am sure there are a few that do just fine. But the statistics are grim. The worst of our societies ills can be traced to the single mom epidemic.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Stang197 said:


> I am sure there are a few that do just fine. But the statistics are grim. The worst of our societies ills can be traced to the single mom epidemic.


If you want to start a discussion about single motherhood, you should probably start a separate thread. It is a big topic.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Stang197 said:


> jld said:
> 
> 
> > Stang197 said:
> ...


You are talking about women who were with men who left. Where there was or is usually an abusive father in the picture which is why the woman ended up single and broke. Poverty is the first indicator that a child is at risk and mothers and children whose men/fathers have left the scene without paying child support are the biggest population of this. It's nice that you'd like to blame all of this on women. Meanwhile ignoring that the men in prison who had single mothers also have sisters who are not in prison at anything close to the same percentages. Does your theory only work on male children for some reason?

What @jld is proposing is getting an education, your own money and support system, then having a baby. Babies of mothers like this tend to thrive because thriving is mostly about economics.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

jld said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > I am sure there are a few that do just fine. But the statistics are grim. The worst of our societies ills can be traced to the single mom epidemic.
> ...


Your the one that brought it up


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > jld said:
> ...


Children do best in an intact family. Two parents. Feminist ideas like yours is the reason for our collapsing society.


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## Stang197 (Aug 31, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Stang197 said:
> 
> 
> > jld said:
> ...


And this is exactly the line of feminist thinking of modern women that causes me to think that men absolutely should avoid marriage at all cost. Self righteous women will divorce you and take your kids because they know best.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Stang197 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Stang197 said:
> ...


I never disagreed that children do best with two caregivers.

I am simply knocking the crap out of your blaming women for men being in prison tripe. We can go round and round like this, or you can stop saying stupid crap. Your choice.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are talking about women who were with men who left. Where there was or is usually an abusive father in the picture which is why the woman ended up single and broke. Poverty is the first indicator that a child is at risk and mothers and children whose men/fathers have left the scene without paying child support are the biggest population of this. It's nice that you'd like to blame all of this on women. Meanwhile ignoring that the men in prison who had single mothers also have sisters who are not in prison at anything close to the same percentages. Does your theory only work on male children for some reason?
> 
> What @jld is proposing is getting an education, your own money and support system, then having a baby. Babies of mothers like this tend to thrive because thriving is mostly about economics.


If a woman is(I'm not sure if unlucky is the best word to use)unlucky enough to end up as a single mom then her problems are only beginning.Even with a career it is very hard to get ahead,everything has to be geared around the child.Trying to get a mortgage or a startup loan for a business is very difficult and usually entails paying over the odds interest wise.
Unfortunately a high percentage of single moms come from poor backgrounds,possibly without much in the way of education and this vicious circle continues.Sex education is all very well but if the young people in question aren't even in school it isn't much use.
It also leaves the women looking like a poor prospect to guys looking for a relationship,the child has to come first and a lot of men won't stick around for long enough to see that this doesn't have to be a problem.
I am speaking from experience here,my girlfriend has an eight year old son and the kids father has never laid eyes on him.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> This all boils down to the fact that some people refuse to date other people unless they are very attractive.It is the same for both sexes.I am speaking from a male perspective but the amount of women I have seen refusing to even contemplate going out with a guy because he wasn't as attractive as they wanted is huge.I have known really decent guys with great careers who couldn't get a girl to even have a coffee with them,then some loser with a handsome face comes along and they can't wait to get him into bed.Then a few years down the line they are complaining that there are no decent guys around.
> I think a lot of this is peer pressure.A girl might really like some guy but because he isn't exactly handsome she won't date him because her friends will laugh at her.As I said it is the same for both sexes.


I think for most sexes there is a baseline. Most men won't date unattractive women too. Do you blame them? I don't. I am being honest, when I was single if I wasn't attracted to you I wasn't going to date you no matter how great your personality was. That is just human attraction and sexuality, it's no more wrong when women feel that way then men. That goes for wanting a man to have a good career path. Duh, it shouldn't be the only thing but of course it important. Your appearance is not static, you can change it. Dress nicer, if you have to get plastic surgery, it takes work like anything else. Guys who think that being a nice guy should get them dates are entitled and women can tell and find them unattractive.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > You are talking about women who were with men who left. Where there was or is usually an abusive father in the picture which is why the woman ended up single and broke. Poverty is the first indicator that a child is at risk and mothers and children whose men/fathers have left the scene without paying child support are the biggest population of this. It's nice that you'd like to blame all of this on women. Meanwhile ignoring that the men in prison who had single mothers also have sisters who are not in prison at anything close to the same percentages. Does your theory only work on male children for some reason?
> ...


Ok here's my experience...parents were divorced. Dad was resentful so didn't pay child support. Mom was educated and supported herself and us because she could and because she had to. My brother and I both came out fine.

Does my experience trump yours and prove that single moms can indeed be great parents?

Oh and I'll throw this in there, too...there were men always lining up to date or marry my mother, even with us two kids. Wow, who would think that some men don't see a single mom as damaged goods? I know that a lot of people want to promote that scare craptastic propaganda to frighten women out of leaving men. But it simply isn't true. Men will always pursue women. With kids or not.

But wait! I can hear it now, the guys who will now chime in and tell us that men who are with single mothers are a lot of times predators who abuse the children! Somehow this is still the woman's fault, and is definitely fear propaganda to keep women afraid of making their own choices.

Or should we see your experience as the more likely scenario? You met her, you were attracted to her, she has a kid, you and the kid like each other, over time you made a blended family out of it and you are clearly a positive influence in the child's life.

How about we all just stop trying to blame women making their own choices for every thing? Or if we insist on continuing to shame single mothers, why wouldn't we also talk about absent fathers and how many more of them there are than there are single mothers. Hmmmm?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok here's my experience...parents were divorced. Dad was resentful so didn't pay child support. Mom was educated and supported herself and us because she could and because she had to. My brother and I both came out fine.
> 
> Does my experience trump yours and prove that single moms can indeed be great parents?
> 
> ...


I don't think I said in my post that single moms doesn't make great parents so I'm not quite sure why you think your experience needs to "trump" mine.Also I never mentioned anything about shaming single moms.I think you want to vent but I don't think I'm the guy you should be using as a scapegoat.
Myself and my girlfriend were supposed to get married last year and I was immediately going to adopt her son.It didn't happen due mainly to outside interference but I have been part of both of their lives for six years and never once thought I was some sort of knight in shining armour,rescuing a fallen woman.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> I am speaking from experience here...


I have no need to vent. These topics don't apply to my life. I was merely relating my personal experience after you did...we can all lay out our personal experiences. Do any of us individually have the one experience that "proves" our point? Does it prove the same point to anyone else who hasn't had that experience? That's why I asked if my experience trumps yours? I know it doesn't, I was being facetious. 

Happy father's day by the way, congrats on the baby.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> I am making it clear to my boys that if they just go for looks, they deserve whatever comes along with that. Mom will not be sympathetic.


My daughters have the looks and the brains. It's mom that drops the average


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Andy1001 said:


> I am sure you would love to see your son with some bimbo with numerous tattoos and piercings.
> With a degree in Japanese animation.


I'm sure my in-laws thought I was a catch, long hair, seriously immature (favorite pastime: pinball and pizza), uncultured (read, not materialistic), low born (true), and with a couple of degrees about as useful as animation. 

They aren't laughing now.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

john117 said:


> I'm sure my in-laws thought I was a catch, long hair, seriously immature (favorite pastime: pinball and pizza), uncultured (read, not materialistic), low born (true), and with a couple of degrees about as useful as animation.
> 
> They aren't laughing now.


What are they doing now? They see you as the ultimate son in law?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> My daughters have the looks and the brains. It's mom that drops the average


Sounds like you were spoiled for Father's Day John.It is great to hear from someone who is proud of his children and not afraid to say it.
My daughter didn't buy me anything and I know for a fact her mother signed the card.I'll forgive her this time,she is only ten weeks old.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Faithful Wife said:


> What are they doing now? They see you as the ultimate son in law?


The people that married the other kids are such losers that they would make anyone look good by comparison...

Her brother the dentist married a second cousin whose favorite activities are eating and spending. Not good. Estranged from rest of family since 2010.

Her late sister the doctor married a major league loser / philanderer. Both 2nd marriages, family BSC, affairs... 

Her mom bought the farm in 2010 and never liked me. Her dad does like me a bit.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ok here's my experience...parents were divorced. Dad was resentful so didn't pay child support. Mom was educated and supported herself and us because she could and because she had to. My brother and I both came out fine.
> 
> Does my experience trump yours and prove that single moms can indeed be great parents?


And my experience … parents married until death, 4 kids, mother mentally ill and finally institutionalized by the time I was 12 and youngest was 3. Father in a 6am to 6pm always on call job that included deployments for months at a time. When deployed he would leave me cash and tell me to go to a neighbor for any help I needed. We (read me) did everything for ourselves. Long term outcome:

Oldest child: high school degree, teenage single mother, turbulent life, on 3rd marriage.

Me: multiple STEM degrees, career, home owner, multiple businesses/patents, no biological kids (but raised 3 kids), divorced.

2nd youngest child: high school degree, ex con (felonies), on 4th marriage, 8 children with multiple women.

Youngest child: STEM degree, career, home owner, on 1st marriage, no kids.

*So does this say that single FATHERS make crap parents? No, the devil is in the specific details and not statistical outcomes. 
*


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

jld said:


> If you want to start a discussion about single motherhood, you should probably start a separate thread. It is a big topic.


This is true. Single mothers can turn out "good men" but it is a rarity that they turn out "good men" who are also "real men". With an absent father (or man) in a boys life, there is only so much that can be passed on. 

The feminization of boys started decades ago, and it's in full force now.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I've been in a LTR 30+ years with no infidelity

I've only known a few people who have even divorced.

Can't think of many who have encountered infidelity.

It all depends on your social circles I suppose 

I believe my kids will fare well also, but they have been brought up to understand boundaries and character

these statistics are just numbers and we are not statistics. There are many, many faithful people out there with solid boundaries and character 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Apexmale said:


> This is true. Single mothers can turn out "good men" but it is a rarity that they turn out "good men" who are also "real men". With an absent father (or man) in a boys life, there is only so much that can be passed on.
> 
> The feminization of boys started decades ago, and it's in full force now.


Yep and it's entirely on their Fathers. Only a Father can teach a boy how to be a man. Most of the fathers are grown boys now too. ****s' scary.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Another thing about cheating stats.

I think when the number "22% married men cheat" doesn't take into account the men who cheated before or after cheating. Once two people become an item - if one does something behind the back of the other IT IS cheating. So with marriage, people who have cheated before married - no longer does so. I don't have a complete picture on these numbers, so its my theory. If we consider how we were young and stupid - it is easier to breakup and create new connections. It seems to be more cheating when people are younger, they don't care as much - its a bit of drama and move on.

With a marriage and kids - that changes things.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jld said:


> I think it is ok to skip the toads and just wait for the prince. I certainly wish I had.
> 
> Natasha, I advised my daughter to focus on her studies. Focusing on your own life and career is a good way to direct your energy.
> 
> ...


Although I can't disagree with jld on this.. 

Still there are some of us that just wouldn't enjoy being alone...if the years kept passing us by.... then so often we end up settling ...seeking , hoping, wanting to believe we found something True.. lasting intimacy... sometimes it's in the wrong places... it's part of the human striving I guess...

Me personally.. I love to be attached, in union with another... to have someone to wake up to every morning, to lie my head down at night with, to share all my secrets, desires, affection & sharing our bodies...with another who mutually wants to give & receive....it's a beautiful thing.... 

I feel there has been a great shift in our society, our values, what is important... there seems to be little shame anymore when we hurt others, betray them, even in dating... if you didn't care for someone...just GHOST THEM.. so what if you spoke things that gave them hope or made them feel good... if we live like this on a consistent basis... it becomes a lifestyle in how we treat others... 

Emotional affairs & cheating is probably more common over being faithful....when it become statistically higher... people make excuses for their behavior , try to justify... we treat sex like a sport... people are more prone to seek new experiences over faithfulness/ commitment ...

Some of this is fueled by a FEAR of intimacy too, due to past heart breaks/ being betrayed LIKE THAT...it's just an ugly circle...and it leads to much difficultly , even caring to open ourselves up again....

It's hard to tell what drives our individual dysfunctions....then some just want us to believe we were never meant to be monogamous to begin with so why fight it...when I read these articles.. many claim it's ALL OF us.. but this is not true...

Science itself has drawn some conclusions ....that some are naturally more monogamous over others...(vasopressin receptor in people help to determine whether men are serial commitment-phobes or devoted husbands) ...I'm sure upbringing/ influences also play a role here though.. given where our culture is, it's no wonder people just don't care anymore... Even more of the good guys will fall prey to what is our new "normal"...

What is a "Good Man".... I attempted a thread on this yrs back..even women will not agree what that entails... I've had posters tell me I shouldn't stereotype any sort of man as a Bad Boy... Why do so many go for men who seem incapable of being faithful..... variety is their lust, their history is very telling...why set ourselves up for a fall.. 

Whomever wrote that article -that this thread spurred from is a confirmed " "non-monogamist" type...

There will always be RISK in love, yielding ourselves to another, showing vulnerability to invite intimacy...so best to seek those who share similar values and dreams for the best outcome... but still it will always be a risk...

One well worth taking though.. when you get it right.. 

I also feel we put too much emphasis on Independence, success, How HOT someone is, or how Rich they are... these have become our values...meanwhile character is often over looked..


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