# Where do I start?



## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

I was a single mum on a good income when I married H. He couldn't work to start with (I sponsored his arrival in the country, after a long distance relationship), and I supported him by getting a better paying job. We always knew this was going to cost $ as his children are back their with their equally well paid mother. And we'd need to visit them, or get them here for holidays.

Problem is that since he's been here he's always spent more than he's earned. In the early days that was sort of OK, as I knew he wasn't earning much, we increased my mortgage to cover the credit card debts we'd run up. Then we extended the mortgage again to extend the house, OK it's a higher value house now. And I out of the goodness of my heart, put him equally on the mortgage title, so legally he half-owns the house.

Over the last 3 years, he's run up credit card debt again of almost $50K, that's almost his annual salary. He kept it from me both times, until he HAD to do something about it. Last time he got a personal loan for $25K and said it would be fine now, he could pay it off and he was all under control. I think this was about 18 months ago, and he now broke the news to me that he was over on his credit cards (that he never closed last time) and he now had $25K of debt again. 

He's gotten a balance transfer for 0%, but then wanted to hold onto the cards again. Last weekend I exploded, and explained that those credit cards needed to be closed NOW. I am terrified that he will do the same thing again. He's closed one and when closing the second, found that he owed $1K he hadn't thought of!

He's very touchy about me knowing about his finances,and we can't talk about it easily, as you may imagine. We both get very stressed. I've moved my savings into accounts in my name only, but I'm worried that if he does this again, it will have to go onto the mortgage. I've told him today, when I discovered another $250 on his new credit card that was NOT balance transfer, that he cannot afford to be doing this. I know how much he earns, he now has no room to move at all, and his ex is now asking for maintenance. This is because he's been hiring expensive cars for the holidays with the kids. She thinks he's loaded. 

You see I pay for the trips out of my money. He wanted fancy cars, and I said I'm not paying for fancy cars because we can't afford them, so he decided to pay for the cars. 

It's like he doesn't make a connection between what he earns and what he can spend! And I know he thinks he's got a big buffer in me. I earn twice what he does. I used to be comfortable with my financial situation, but I'm now scared because of all this debt he's creating. 

I made it clear to him today, that with these 2 surprises this week unless he can show me that he's spending less than he earns, I'll be asking him to sign forms for the house to go back into my name, and he can pay board. If he doesn't like that we can get divorced. Every deal we've struck about money, he's broken. He's very good in every other way.

I love this man, in many ways he's the love of my life. But I can't sit back and await financial doom.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I am so sorry for what you're going through. Financial nightmares are extremely stressful.

And this is precisely why I will never get married again. Sorry if I sound jaded, but it took me nearly 3 years to finalize my divorce and get completely legally untangled from my ex.

I've been involved with my SO for nearly 4 years now, am very happy with him, but have made it clear that I will NEVER get married.

I really don't have any advice, except to say I agree with your plan to remove him from the mortgage. Also, consider paying for Lifelock or a similar service which will monitor your credit and his, and it will alert you to any new credit opened in his name. You can also set up text alerts on your credit cards that will notify you of every single purchase he makes.

I wish you the very best.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks Happy, I don't want to get divorced again. I want to get old with H, but never being able to talk about money and then these things, it's so painful. I don't want to snoop on him. I want to be able to talk about this, in a useful way, and agree a plan etc etc etc.


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## long_done (Jun 5, 2014)

Good god, what a nightmare. I would kick his butt to the curb. If you don't, you're doomed to financial failure.

You have a tough choice.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

This is pretty serious.

Don't be his parent, as I am sure you are exhausted from the stress of wondering if he is going to blow more of your financial security and are feeling like you wearing yourself down trying to be the sole voice of reason. And no matter what you say, his actions show that he isn't getting it.

Tell him that you refuse to be the gatekeeper for his financial irresponsibility. He needs to know that he is indeed putting the marriage on the line acting like this...and I suggest financial counseling, not to mention, marriage counseling. BUT! YOU are to give him the choice, the freedom to do whatever he wants!! ON THE OTHER HAND, his choice will have a consequence, either A) He gets with the program, agrees to a budget, follows the budget, and goes into double-time to clean up this mess, or B) He continues his irresponsible spending, forcing you to protect yourself financially, seek a trial-separation, pending divorce if he still continues to be out of control.

Behavior MUST have consequences or nothing will change. This isn't you being mean. This isn't you being his mom. This isn't you punishing him. THIS IS YOU being an adult, treating him as an equal adult and EXPECTING the same respect. I know you don't want to take the divorce route, I don't blame you, but it will come eventually as you grow more and more resentful and be filled with burning contempt each day that nothing is being done to change this. Things like this will wear your love down. TRUTH.

You can confront this completely, and still say this in love. But you also you love him enough to release him to his decision because his CHOICES and ACTIONS will define what kind of husband/father he plans on being. And if this behavior is a result of some unresolved boyhood issues, which it probably is, then he needs help. EXPECT nothing less. You don't need to raise you voice anymore, just BE DECISIVE and nip this in the bud now, or be willing to set boundaries.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks FormerSelf for your words of wisdom. I told him yesterday that if he couldn't start living within his means, I'd be putting the house in my name. He seems to sort of understand what I'm saying. But the question is, how do we agree to keep tabs on this. He gets into a position where he starts owing, and doesn't want to tell me, because he knows I'll be mad. I'm thinking regular check ins.


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## Counterfit (Feb 2, 2014)

1. You need experienced legal counsel to get yourself out of this mess.
2. Since you are married to him he can do an enormous amount of damage to your finances and credit - without you even knowing it. 
3. Have him to sign over the one-half ownership of the home back to you after consulting with your attorney.
4. Divorce him.

This is never going to get better or improve. You made a mistake by getting married to this man - acknowege that mistake to yourself and extract yourself from this mess.


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Deep Down said:


> Thanks FormerSelf for your words of wisdom. I told him yesterday that if he couldn't start living within his means, I'd be putting the house in my name. He seems to sort of understand what I'm saying. But the question is, how do we agree to keep tabs on this. He gets into a position where he starts owing, and doesn't want to tell me, because he knows I'll be mad. I'm thinking regular check ins.


You need to plug yourself into resources...where you BOTH can get a reality check about your financial situation...and that should be a financial advisor, I also highly recommend Dave Ramsey's The Total Money Makeover book. You both need a plan that you both can get excited about..but if either of you waffles or makes excuses why you can't start climbing out of this...then you will be back where you started from. 

Ramsey warned that in almost every marriage there is one person who will be the bean-counter and the other who will freely spend whenever the opportunity arises. Irregardless of our differences, we MUST come into agreement concerning EVERY SINGLE FINANCIAL DECISION...for if we are being secretive about our spending, then that is a problem beyond finances. 

The goal is to hammer out a living budget where you aren't relying on credit cards PERIOD. Slash your overhead in every way possible, and if some one isn't willing to give up luxuries, then it ain't gonna work. You are red-face pissed about this and your husband needs to STOP moping, STOP feeling guilty, and just stop spending money frivolously and get on the ball. He needs to get angry too.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> Thanks FormerSelf for your words of wisdom. I told him yesterday that if he couldn't start living within his means, I'd be putting the house in my name. He seems to sort of understand what I'm saying. But the question is, how do we agree to keep tabs on this. He gets into a position where he starts owing, and doesn't want to tell me, because he knows I'll be mad. I'm thinking regular check ins.


Some things I can think of:

Get an agreement from him that you can check his credit report monthly. Anything new will show up (or should show up). 

Talk to a lawyer to see if there is a way to protect yourself from his debt an overspending. In some places, debt made by one spouse is not considered the debt of the other spouse.

Go with him to a psychiatrist. Over spending like he is doing can be caused by things like bi-polar disorder, ADD/HD, obsessive/compulsive disorder, etc. Then into counseling for him to learn to stop doing this.

You need to make a HUGE deal out of this so that he takes you seriously.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> I was a single mum on a good income when I married H. He couldn't work to start with (I sponsored his arrival in the country, after a long distance relationship), and I supported him by getting a better paying job. We always knew this was going to cost $ as his children are back their with their equally well paid mother. And we'd need to visit them, or get them here for holidays.
> 
> Problem is that since he's been here he's always spent more than he's earned. In the early days that was sort of OK, as I knew he wasn't earning much, we increased my mortgage to cover the credit card debts we'd run up. Then we extended the mortgage again to extend the house, OK it's a higher value house now. And I out of the goodness of my heart, put him equally on the mortgage title, so legally he half-owns the house.
> 
> ...


I think your end game needs to be divorcing him if he persists in this behavior. I was in a similar situation, with me and my ex making about what you and your H do. My observations:

* He does not just spend more than he makes. He is spending more than he makes and more than your ability to cover it. You were comfortable before, and now you are drawing your home equity to cover monthly bills.
* He makes an above-average salary. I am assuming you are in the U.S. If so, he has to net at least $2,500 a month after taxes. That by itself is a significant amount of spending.
* His behavior is not consistent with someone who addresses his responsibilities. He moved to a different country, away from his kids and without any way to get back to them. Even with a decent salary, you paid for the travel. He does not even pay support now that he can afford to do so.
* I don't see that he does much besides earn his salary (of which he spends 100%). No mention of trying to increase his earning power, helping around the home, etc.

I don't like this. He has to know you are not able to keep up with his lifestyle, are stressed about it, and keeps on as always. That he has not tried to change sounds like a character issue.

Do try to get 100% of the house back in your name. He had nothing to do with getting it (or, now, keeping it). You have already chipped away at your stake by borrowing against it to support him. Be prepared for him to refuse, however.

Taking the steps you outlined above (separating your finances, making him help to maintain the home) may resolve the money issues. But I see relationship issues too. Will he resent you when he leads a fairly bare-bones existence after having to support his kids and contribute towards your household? What happens down the road when you are ready to retire and he cannot because he has not planned well?


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks DTO, EleGirl and FormerSelf,

Just to set the record straight, we're in Australia, and his income is about average. Before he came here, his ex hadn't let him see the kids for months. He's seen them more since he's been here than before. The fact that we've gone all that way convinced her that she had to let them come away with us. 

She had also demanded child support from him when she heard we were getting married. He couldn't work because of visa restrictions and I was supporting him. It was a very stressful time. She was demanding 20% of my salary! Anyway, she knew that the travel cost more than she was entitled to get in child support so she backed off. He has always sent money when she's asked for it, to cover school trips etc. He also pays his share of the mortgage and bills money, so no complaints there. So I don't want you making assumptions that he's a complete layabout. He also does a lot of the cooking etc. I work longer hours than him so he does that. 

I've made a really big deal about this over the last 3 weeks. I've swung from trying to help (he thinks I'm taking control) to accusing him of gross stupidity (arguments). He has come clean, has closed down one card and is in the process of closing the other. I demanded those. He's also taken the other balance transfer card out of his wallet and into the bedside drawer. 

We agreed yesterday that we had the same goals, pay off all debt and the mortgage. Then he suggested we do that by buying an investment property... I say we can't while there is so much debt, it's too high risk. We argued again. 

He's been looking for better paying jobs for months, I've seen this, proofread applications etc. But there aren't many around, and he's had one interview in the last 3 months. I suppose one difference is he thinks he just needs to earn more, and I say you need to spend less. 

My 21yo daughter pulled me aside last night and told me she was stressed about our arguments. I've told her without much detail, what its about and that I'm not backing down. Thing is, I now think I've created too much of a noise. 

I don't need to take him to a psychiatrist, I know he is a Highly Sensitive Personality and reacts more than your usual person to most things. 

Look, I understand all this stuff, but I'm still angry. Last night after my daughter spoke to me, I decided that I'd spent enough time being angry, and needed to be more positive.

We need to be able to talk to each other about this. FormerSelf, I'm not in the least religious, and have read every book on the topic of budgeting. H won't read anything on the topic, he's worked in financial markets for most of his life, is used to having plenty of money, the budgeting itself is not the issue. It's the mind shift required.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Probably not what you want to hear but you made a mistake in marrying this man. Divorce him legally; you can still have him live there if you want, but if you continue with this simply because you don't want to be divorced he will ruin you financially.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

InTheory,

No not $100K, $50K in 2 lots of $25K. I know where it's gone, on expensive hire cars during our holidays, expensive cigs, presents for the kids, dinner out etc. Nothing I can sell.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

lifeistooshort said:


> Probably not what you want to hear but you made a mistake in marrying this man. Divorce him legally; you can still have him live there if you want, but if you continue with this simply because you don't want to be divorced he will ruin you financially.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't have a problem with being divorced, but I love this man. Apart from this I have no problems. Look, even what he's spent the money on is family experiences, and expressions of love. Expensive present for his kids, dinners out while on holiday with them, he'd buy me flowers, take me out for dinner. He bought me flowers on the weekend to say he loved me, then on seeing me frown at them told me they were only $8. I've never seen the point in flowers, myself.

So this isn't someone who's spending money on booze and hookers or anything like that.


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## rtonelli (Jun 24, 2014)

I have a sibling who has the same problem. It got to the point where they came to an agreement that one would take care of the finances and handle all the money, and they would budget the other one X amount of dollars weekly to do what they needed to do. If the one needed more money he would ask her for the funds, therefore discussing a purchase before it happened. It had setbacks here and there, but overall they have gotten out of debt over the last few years, and the other partner is starting to participate in making the finances work.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Deep Down said:


> I don't have a problem with being divorced, but I love this man. Apart from this I have no problems. Look, even what he's spent the money on is family experiences, and expressions of love. Expensive present for his kids, dinners out while on holiday with them, he'd buy me flowers, take me out for dinner. He bought me flowers on the weekend to say he loved me, then on seeing me frown at them told me they were only $8. I've never seen the point in flowers, myself.
> 
> So this isn't someone who's spending money on booze and hookers or anything like that.



Not the point. You made a mistake tying yourself legally to him; i'm sure he's a very nice man which is why I said he can still live with you. Remaining tied to him legally will sink you financially, and you'll have to spend your life tracking him financially like his mother. If he's that great of a guy he'd understand, but it's up to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

Yeah, this really boils down to behavior and attitudes about money...and it is a tough, tough decision to adjust one's lifestyle and do what it takes to lower overhead...especially when it comes to comforts. 

If your husband can get a job and can cover everything and get the finances back in balance, great, but I agree with you that investing in a property is risky...and sounds to me like an attempt at a quick-fix solution instead of accepting that behavior needs to change. His decision to let go of the credit cards is HUGE!!:smthumbup:


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks for your messages, 
It IS a behaviour thing, and he doesn't want to give up control of his money. Apparently that happened in his first marriage, and his wife spent all of it, ironic eh? Then he felt forced to get better paying jobs that he didn't like, to try to keep her happy. He always felt under pressure to earn more. He's done it to himself this time. 

It just seems like the only method he has to solve budget issues is to earn more. I'm saying we just need to spend less, and I'm trying to make it a challenge. 

in theory, I'm honestly not sure if he's reacting to me earning more. 

Sadly we got news this week that his father has a tumour, (maybe ok, but won't know for a few weeks). So that's dominated the last few days as you can imagine.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks ThreeTimes, Almost exactly the same age, both 51, 2 months between us. 

I've already pulled any "joint" savings that were really mine, into my name only. And he is onto his first pay cycle in austerity mode. We'll see how he goes.


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## debster (Dec 17, 2012)

I completely understand. My husband is a people pleaser and poor money manager.

I've taken up blogging as we try to pay down our debts which are way more than you have but incurred in a similar way.

Sometimes I think I am nuts continuing, but, like you, I love him and he does have a lot of good qualities.

Please check out my blog debt debs | Personal Debt Wrangler – Had my money head in the sand – but no more! you may find some inspiration or encouragement.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks debster, Love your blog by the way. I've been considering my own blog, mainly cos I find personal financial management to be very important to my mental wellbeing, and I think I know something on the topic as well. Which probably only annoys H anyway. 

Now how to ask the question - "how are you going this pay cycle?" without having my head bitten off....


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

First, realize you going into sensitive areas because a man's self-esteem is tied to his ability as a wage earner. It hurts his self image not to be able to provide as he likes and he is trying to do that while helping to support two households on a modest salary. A man has the same sensitivity about his ability to earn a living as a woman has about her appearance. (note I don't see a whole lot of people saying about wives, hey, she gained 30 pounds, is supposed to be on a diet but nothing happening. You need to be a whole lot more assertive in telling her what she can eat). 

Tell a man he's fat, he probably doesn't care and might agree with you, tell him he can't earn a decent living to support his family, it hurts. It's the opposite with women, tell someone she not good at managing a budget she might agree, tell her she's ugly and unattractive she'll probably cry. 

So have a gentle discussion realizing there are serious and legitimate problems he is having. That said, make it clear that your and your family's happiness is not dependent upon money and that you want to approach the issue together. Let's try to spend less and Dave Ramsey is a good speaker on these issues. 

Try to have some good loving after these discussions because his esteem may be low.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks Bobby3000, funny you should mention weight! I put on 15 kg (about 30 pounds) after marrying H, and he put on about 5 after a nasty cycling accident. I hated having the extra weight, but he never said anything about it. I couldn't touch my toes easily, and felt rubbish. 

I realised that the problem wasn't weight per se, it was me not saying what I needed. Given our first few years together were quite tough, I had been maximum supportive to him and minimum supportive to me. So I told my DH that I was going to lose weight and that I needed him to support me, by not only changing our diet a bit (he does a bit of cooking), but also allowing me to say what I wanted cos I realised that was why I was over-eating. 

When I asked why he had never said anything about my weight, he said that he had thought it would be unloving to do that. I've since explained that being honest with me IS loving. I hate (strong word but true) not being face to face with reality. How can you deal with anything if you don't even know it's there?

This has been the story of the last year or so, me pushing reality at DH. I'm the bad guy, constantly. He likes to pretend that one day we can get a yacht and sail the Pacific. 

So last night I asked about how his finances were going, how was this pay cycle going, and got a grouch response. So then i asked how can I ask you so you DON'T bite my head off, and got, "its fine". Now back to the yacht pictures. As I said, I'm reality.


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## debster (Dec 17, 2012)

Deep Down said:


> Now how to ask the question - "how are you going this pay cycle?" without having my head bitten off....


You have to set boundaries as to what is not acceptable. You have a right to know what money he is bringing in. 

If he is not willing to work at this with you, then he is against you, and that is not tolerable. Don't let him try to put the problem on you. You have to hold him accountable.

My husband means well but is sloppy. I have to remind him and sometimes nag and sometimes through hysterics or worse and it improves. He is improving, generally. It's not overnight but it's not a lost cause, at least not yet. I remain cautiously optimistic. But I do not let him get away with it.

On the positive side he is hard working, he cooks and cleans, he is kind, good to my family and our kids, funny, loving, treats me well and with respect. In many ways he is so perfect, just not in the financial one. It doesn't help that he doesn't make a good salary for how hard he works.

Feel free to drop me a line. It sounds like we have a lot in common and could provide each other tips and support.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Deep Down said:


> Just to set the record straight, we're in Australia, and his income is about average. Before he came here, his ex hadn't let him see the kids for months. He's seen them more since he's been here than before. The fact that we've gone all that way convinced her that she had to let them come away with us.


It sounds to me like he’s telling you a lot of untrue stories. See, his ex cannot keep him from seeing the children. They are divorced right? He as a custody and time-sharing plan right? If she refused to let him see his kids he could have taken her to court. He could have asked to police to escort him when he picked up his children in accordance with the custody/time-sharing plan. He did not see his children because he did not do what was necessary to make sure that he saw his children.



Deep Down said:


> She had also demanded child support from him when she heard we were getting married. He couldn't work because of visa restrictions and I was supporting him. It was a very stressful time. She was demanding 20% of my salary!


Did they go through attorneys to establish child support? 

She cannot demand any child support from you. Your income does not account because they are not your children. The court cannot ask you to pay his child support. Since you are out of the USA there is ever more of a barrier. It sounds to me like you are being taken for a ride. 

Who actually send her the child support? You or him?



Deep Down said:


> Anyway, she knew that the travel cost more than she was entitled to get in child support so she backed off. He has always sent money when she's asked for it, to cover school trips etc.


Does he pay child support? It sounds like he does not even really help support his children.



Deep Down said:


> He also pays his share of the mortgage and bills money, so no complaints there. So I don't want you making assumptions that he's a complete layabout. He also does a lot of the cooking etc. I work longer hours than him so he does that.
> 
> I've made a really big deal about this over the last 3 weeks. I've swung from trying to help (he thinks I'm taking control) to accusing him of gross stupidity (arguments). He has come clean, has closed down one card and is in the process of closing the other. I demanded those. He's also taken the other balance transfer card out of his wallet and into the bedside drawer.


ok





Deep Down said:


> We agreed yesterday that we had the same goals, pay off all debt and the mortgage. Then he suggested we do that by buying an investment property... I say we can't while there is so much debt, it's too high risk. We argued again.


Hm…. Strange idea he had. Would the property have produced more income than it cost to run monthly?



Deep Down said:


> He's been looking for better paying jobs for months, I've seen this, proofread applications etc. But there aren't many around, and he's had one interview in the last 3 months. I suppose one difference is he thinks he just needs to earn more, and I say you need to spend less.


He has dug a hole financially. He needs to do both… spend less, earn more.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Some good suggestions here - the one couple I know in this situation "solved" it by her handling everything and giving him cash. Unfortunately after many years of this he felt quite emasculated by being given this "allowance" and no access to marital funds. Finally she opened an account for him - he still gets the "allowance" but at least he has a debit card so if something happens where he needs money, he can call her and she can immediately transfer into his account so he can pay but at least she knows about it.

I have no knowledge of your laws but I have a suggestion that might make him feel more empowered - YOU know what to do, but he feels out of control even though you two agreed (or he just agreed to end the discussion). Have you considered going to visit a financial professional like a CFP? This person could review your debts and assets, you could discuss your mutual plan for getting back on track and your H might feel more convinced/likely to participate based on a professional's advice.

Least of all separate accounts, cut up credit cards and force a regular review of credit reports and accounts to stay on track. Maybe quarterly or bi-annually appointments with the CFP? 

I like the idea of divorcing but living together to protect yourself. Or having him sign his half of the house back over to you. I would insist he do one or the other (plus agree to a plan and sticking to it) or else you divorce for real and he leaves.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

As is frequently the case, this issue is a little more nuanced than the poster makes it out to be, with some responsibility to be shared. 

Certainly financial issues should be candidly discussed and no one should spend more money than he can afford. Clearly the husband has some problems with money and is failing to keep his promises. The nuance comes with the fact that this is a second marriage, and apparently new wife (our poster) has assigned a relatively low priority to monetary expenditures for his children. Additionally, he has support and other costs due which not unexpectedly new wife is not happy about, positing blame not only upon him but on old wife. Para 5, "She thinks he's loaded, " See also para 1, ("well-paid wife."). One doubts that first wife believes his is earning a mint simply by the rental car used. She probably does believe his first obligation is to take care of his children and any other obligations come next. 

The solution is straightforward. He needs to be honest and fulfill his promises but our poster needs to recognize that he has legitimate responsibilities for his children. One is not surprised though that he avoids any realistic discussion of finances with either woman, because candor with either leads to tremendous stress, problems, and argument. First wife and second share one characteristic, each believing she has been too passive and accommodating, and needs in the future to be far more assertive with him. Faced with this stress, he tries to avoid conflict, and postpone problems to the future hoping for some magical solution. 

Your first solution is to recognize the reality of two households. he does need some money when he sees his children. That is probably not where the savings should come, and instead that must be integrated into the budget. If he sees the kids for 10 days and a medium priced rental car costs 400, that is not wasted money but a necessary expenditure. You can discuss discounts but these costs cannot be eliminated and you are better off working on other costs in budgeting. 

You probably should take him off the mortgage, and I have no idea why you put him on in the first place. 

If you have a reasonably happy marriage, and are paying some of your funds, that should not be a problem in a time where roles have changed. Try to work on getting some candor from him and reasonable problem-solving, make sure your credit is separated, and I think the issues are not insoluble.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds to me like he’s telling you a lot of untrue stories. See, his ex cannot keep him from seeing the children. They are divorced right? He as a custody and time-sharing plan right? If she refused to let him see his kids he could have taken her to court. He could have asked to police to escort him when he picked up his children in accordance with the custody/time-sharing plan. He did not see his children because he did not do what was necessary to make sure that he saw his children.
> 
> 
> Did they go through attorneys to establish child support?
> ...


Hi Elegirl,

He got divorced in UK. We don't live in USA. There was no agreement over access arrangements. He was in the midst of a nervous breakdown when they divorced. He had paid for the house, but signed it 100% over to her. Took him over a year to start to recover emotionally. He hasn't lied to me about this, his parents tell me this as well. She didn't let him see the kids until she judged he was "ok". Of course this just made it worse for him. Even then they'd arrange a day and time for him to visit, then she'd cancel at the last minute more often than not, claiming a birthday party or some such thing. Some ex-wives are very cruel.

So we ignored her demand for my income when we first married. But I checked out all the relevant laws. Whenever she's asked for money, for school trips etc we've given it to her. And its been joint money, as he hasn't earned much and couldn't pay it on his own. She still tells the kids that their Dad doesn't pay for anything. They let slip sometimes.

It costs us $10K to travel to see the kids, with air fares etc. A fancy hire car (that he paid for) is small change compared with flights, accommodation etc. 

We have plenty of legitimate issues to deal with that we deal with just fine. But yes, he's dug a hole, and we have problems talking about it.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Thanks Bobby5000 (got it right this time), I can see some truth in what you've said there. My DH reckoned that his xw spent his money before he saw it, on things he didn't see any value in. She also didn't want to go to work to help pay for them. Expected him to keep earning more and more money. 

I have no issues with our trips to see the kids (which I largely pay for, about $10K each time), and helping to pay for things they need, but I'm annoyed to have been paying for these while he ran up debt on his cards on the hire car and all sorts of other stuff. These are hire cars that in UK say "RICH". He wouldn't tell me how much but I can guess about $2K for the car last time (that was OTT), about $1000 on clothes for his daughter while we were there last year. She had plenty of clothes to start with, but they went shopping and he couldn't say no. 

Anyway, annoyance to one side. He's really sensitive, and has been beaten up plenty over the years over money. So you're right, he doesn't want to be candid with me. 

When we extended the house, I put him on the title and mortgage, mainly so if anything happened to me, he would get it. Otherwise it would go 100% to my daughter. We did wills, and it seemed better to me, that he gets the house and she gets money. She's 21 after all, and on the verge of moving out. He's always paid his share (1/3) of the mortgage and bills (1/2) on time. No complaints there. 

We've been married 7 years. We can't talk about money without him feeling sick, and it turns into an argument. As you say "candor with either leads to tremendous stress, problems, and argument" and, "Faced with this stress, he tries to avoid conflict, and postpone problems to the future hoping for some magical solution."

There's no magic solution I can see apart from paying down that debt. And I'm not doing it, I do enough. But I need to know he is getting on top of it. I cannot let him stay in happy denial-land until he owes another $25K. 

I don't think he is in happy-denial-land at the moment. But the problem is each time he's run up debt in the past, he doesn't say anything until its too late. Am I crazy to want to have a regular check in? We need to find a way to be able to talk about it.


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## Deep Down (Jun 21, 2014)

Please people give me strength, my 14yo step-daughter is here now, and we had the most surreal conversation yesterday. Given that her mother is asking DH for regular money and saying she needs it. She got the house from him, and he left them set up well, and himself penniless. Our money problems stem from his conspicuous consumption and spending on the holidays with the children. 

So darling stepdaughter was telling me how she and her brother have heaps of money, and her mother has savings for when they go to university, to pay for them (in the UK, not quite like the US, but they now have tuition fees). She then innocently asks,"Do you have savings?". I said, "no, we don't". Why not, she says, I thought everyone had savings? I replied that she was lucky as her side of the family is clearly better off than ours. 

She lives in another world, I have to use all my patience when she says these things. Anyway she's in our house now and seeing that it needs some work. Once she goes back, her mother is expecting some money regularly. Looks like DH is managing to his income at the moment, but we go away this weekend for a week in the sun. I've saved a bit of cash, and we'll see how we go.


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