# He won't marry me



## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

We are both 30; I'm divorced with a child and he has a child from a previous long term relationship. When we first met, the idea of getting married again was not something I wanted at all and he said he never wanted to marry either. So we were on the same page.

We just had a baby together and I feel like my stance on marriage has changed again. I talked to him about this and he told me that he still doesn't believe in marriage and doesn't plan on ever marrying me. He wants us to be together and sees a future with me and to continue on as a family but sees no need to be married. I'm feeling crushed. I know that I knew this from the beginning but I had hoped that his feelings were changing as mine have.

He doesn't believe in marriage because everyone he has ever known that was married either ended in divorce or is miserable. His favorite Aunt on the other hand has been with her SO for over 25 years, never married and they are successful with children and are still to this day happy and in love with each other.

I don't know what to do at this point. He asked me if this was now a deal breaker for me and if I would eventually end up leaving him because of this. I told him no, that I just need to accept it, that he can't marry me because of the fear of me leaving and that it is something we both have to want. He is an amazing father and has a great relationship with my child. We get along and communicate extremely well and we have a lot of fun together no matter what we are doing. It is as perfect of a relationship for me as I could ever hope for. 

I feel like I want some sort of formal commitment of his feelings and the promise to be together forever, not just saying it in bed at night before we fall asleep. I don't want to end up 50 years old calling him my boyfriend when we've been together for 20 years. I don't want to check the divorced box on forms for the rest of my life. I'm sick already of hearing people referring to their husbands or wives. Hearing of people getting engaged is bringing me to tears. Not to mention he is in the military and without us being married there are certain important situations I may not be recognized. To the military he is single and I just don't exist. 

I don't know how to get past this idea of marriage but I need to. This relationship means everything to me but this is making me an emotional mess.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Soifon said:


> When we first met, the idea of getting married again was not something I wanted at all and he said he never wanted to marry either. So we were on the same page.
> 
> my stance on marriage has changed again.... he told me that he still doesn't believe in marriage and doesn't plan on ever marrying me. ....... I'm feeling crushed.


You knew what you were getting into from the get go. This is your issue; not his. Why do you feel the need to get married? Aren't you already living with him? You already have his baby. What difference is a piece of paper going to make?


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

You knew it when you went in to the relationship as you acknowledged. Your feelings changed, his didn't. Eventually you will be his commonlaw wife and you can call him your husband. The paper isn't important - read this website and see all of the unhappy endings. Feel blessed that you have such a wonderful relationship.

However, you may want to discuss power of attorney for medical issues, etc. with him. Too many life partners get excluded from the ER or making healthcare decisions because the partner has no legal rights.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Soifon said:


> * It is as perfect of a relationship for me as I could ever hope for.*


Then why ruin it with marriage? :scratchhead: 



> Not to mention he is in the military and *without us being married there are certain important situations I may not be recognized*. To the military he is single and I just don't exist.


What? Like his military benefits? Life insurance? :wtf: are you saying here?

And who cares what the "military" thinks. If there's an occasion that calls for SOs to be there, wouldn't he bring *you*?


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## OwlAlwaysLuvU (Oct 9, 2012)

I understand how you feel because I had gone through the same type of thing.

I've heard of some couples having a "commitment ceremony" where they say vows, exchange rings all in the presence of their family and friends just like a traditional wedding, only difference there is no actual legal marriage. Who cares if the state doesn't recognized you as married, you don't need the paper. But if it is a matter of declaring your intentions of love and being together forever maybe he'd go for that? Call him your husband (if he has no objections), who cares? I wouldn't call someone my boyfriend forever either, sounds like something a high schooler would say.

Anyways, the point is maybe you guys can come to some kind of compromise by thinking out of the box? Good luck!


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

My only concern would be the benefits offered by the military

Find out if they recognize common law status


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## rj700 (Jun 22, 2012)

If it is the US military, it does matter. Military benefits are a big one - can't even use the commissary without him there. But others as well. And any "notifications" or decisions the military does will not be to her. Its not whether he can bring her somewhere. I don't think she is talking about events or occasions. It's about all the stuff you have access to when he is NOT there.

But she did know where he stood ahead of time.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

rj700 said:


> If it is the US military, it does matter. Military benefits are a big one - can't even use the commissary without him there. But others as well. And any "notifications" or decisions the military does will not be to her. Its not whether he can bring her somewhere. I don't think she is talking about events or occasions. It's about all the stuff you have access to when he is NOT there.
> 
> But she did know where he stood ahead of time.


Exactly. We have our first deployment to go through next year and I'm scared. If anything happens I won't be notified and will not be offered grief counseling. I will have no rights to his personal belongings. This stuff is important to me. I did know this before hand and I know that it is my issue I'm just trying to figure out how to move past it. And you're right it is just a piece of paper I suppose and I don't want to ruin a good thing just for the idea of marriage. It still makes me really sad though 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

he told you from the get-go,and now that YOU changed your mind you think he should also,or could it be that you're looking for military bennies plus 10 year rule?


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

67flh said:


> he told you from the get-go,and now that YOU changed your mind you think he should also,or could it be that you're looking for military bennies plus 10 year rule?


Absolutely not. I make more money than him I have a government job and a good pension this isn't about money. And yeah I changed my mind but I went to him to tell him that I had and to find out where he stood I don't expect him to change just because I have I had hoped that maybe he was as well, he isn't and now I am trying to come to terms with that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OwlAlwaysLuvU (Oct 9, 2012)

Some of these responses seem more accusatory than helpful. People come here for advice, and to find constructive ideas to better a difficult situation, not to feel worse.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

Soifon said:


> Exactly. We have our first deployment to go through next year and I'm scared. If anything happens I won't be notified and will not be offered grief counseling. I will have no rights to his personal belongings. This stuff is important to me. I did know this before hand and I know that it is my issue I'm just trying to figure out how to move past it. And you're right it is just a piece of paper I suppose and I don't want to ruin a good thing just for the idea of marriage. It still makes me really sad though
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Can he put you down as a person to contact in his personnel record? Sorry I don't know much about military.

With good insurance of your own you can at least get grief counseling. He should have a will where you are listed as the only beneficiary to his estate. All accounts should be joint and/or a medical AND financial power of attorney. 

I sounds like most of your objections can be handled legally. So why don't you talk to him about that? I like the idea of exchanging rings even if you aren't married - it's a lovely symbol of eternity you two could share.

Sounds like you have a great thing going - do the legal stuff to make you feel secure then just enjoy a wonderful relationship.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Of course you can change your mind! He may never. I guess you will have to figure out if this is a deal-breaker for you.

My widowed Father happily lived with a woman for 7 yrs. planning to never re-marry. She like you, wanted to be married so she gave him an ultimatum - split up or marry. He chose split up.

He moved out, was miserable w/o her for 6 mos. then married her - 20 yrs. happily married until he passed.

I don't really care much for ultimatums but in her case it worked!

Good luck.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I'm not the type to give ultimatums. I would hate for him to marry me because he felt he had to. I want him to choose it on his own. I will talk to him about a ring exchange and see how he feels about it. We do have a great thing going and this isn't a deal breaker I just need to get over my initial sadness I guess. I hope that there is some way to work out the legal stuff.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

If you want, you can even legally change your last name to his. Or hyphenate your last name. You can create a 'marriage' in nearly every way except in the eyes of government.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Soifon -- having just been a key leader in an FRG for my H's unit, there is nothing that you NEED to be married for outside of shopping at the commissary. Which I got to tell you, I don't even shop there. Its cheaper to go to the market off post here, and better quality. 

He identifies his Primary Next of Kin and his Secondary Next of Kin. He fills in the blanks. He can leave his life insurance to whomever he wants. He can make you your own mypay account to see his LES every month. Power of Attorney's for all the other stuff. 

Making my calls this past homecoming, about 40% of the people I called were parents or girlfriends. I asked them all to participate and to feel free to call. They were invited to everything. Times are changing. Unless you NEEDED medical coverage through him, I don't see why anything would need to change.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Very Smart and informative post,Dawn!


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Thank you Dawn!!! I've been trying to research and I guess the info that I've been getting is outdated? This is our first deployment, for him and me so he doesn't really know these answers either yet. I've just been going off of what I can find. That is a huge reassurance for me though. I'm wondering if he didn't realize he can put anyone down, I'll have to mention it to him. He isn't the best with reading comprehension and just rushes through that kind of stuff. We just had a baby so he will need to revisit a lot of his paperwork I think so that will be a good opportunity to adjust some things.

And no I don't need medical coverage, mine is actually better and we are going through the process now to prove him as my domestic partner so he can be on my insurance.

I feel a lot better with your post  Thank you.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think you need to explore in more depth what it is that you are REALLY searching for?

Do you feel like the love isn't official unless you're married? Do you feel like he's not committed to you unless it's legal? Are you embarrassed by the social connotation of being single?

What is it specifically that makes this difficult for you?

My guess is that you are afraid, possibly of the uncertainty of the future, and that this is an action step he can take for you that will bring you some comfort.

If that is the case, I'd tell you that it is a false comfort. Marriage doesn't MAKE trust. It doesn't alleviate fears or concerns. Whatever problems you have before an official marriage will remain after the papers are signed. There are no guarantees in the future.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I wouldn't doubt it. Finding the current stuff can be exhausting. Tell him to talk to either S1 or his platoon leader/squad leader/etc and they will point him in the right direction to change anything he needs to.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

i saw that you were saying you didn't want to be referred to as his girlfriend forever.I can definitely see how you'd dislike that. 

I imagine when i'm older I'll dread being called a girlfriend too. It sounds so high school and juvenile to me even though it isn't.

It's like Sex and the City when Carrie refers to Big as her boyfriend and he says "aren't i a little old to be a boyfriend?" and she corrects it by saying "you're my manfriend"

I'd stick with words like partner,significant other,and if you really wanna get romantic and fancy...lover

Or just call yourself the wife.Have a ceremony,exchange the rings,and get your documents in order. For all intents and purposes you ARE the wife.The only thing missing is a piece of paper. You have the commitment,you have the family,you live the life. If you're not the wife you sure are wearing the wife's uniform


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

COguy said:


> I think you need to explore in more depth what it is that you are REALLY searching for?
> 
> Do you feel like the love isn't official unless you're married? Do you feel like he's not committed to you unless it's legal? Are you embarrassed by the social connotation of being single?
> 
> What is it specifically that makes this difficult for you?


I've been trying to pinpoint what it is and I'm all over the place. I would answer yes to all of your questions but then when I think of the flip side I can say that I know I don't need it to prove those things. I should just be content knowing that behind closed doors we are truly happy and it doesn't matter what other people see. I'm working on that part. I'm throwing around the idea of seeing a therapist, just to have someone to talk to and help work out all these thoughts I can't seem to get straight.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Haha! Thanks Scarlet! It does seem silly and when I brought that point up to him he said, "well I call you 'the wife' all the time". I just feel weird calling him my husband if he isn't. I need to pick something that feels right, I'm leaning towards partner.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Soifon said:


> I've been trying to pinpoint what it is and I'm all over the place. I would answer yes to all of your questions but then when I think of the flip side I can say that I know I don't need it to prove those things. I should just be content knowing that behind closed doors we are truly happy and it doesn't matter what other people see. I'm working on that part. I'm throwing around the idea of seeing a therapist, just to have someone to talk to and help work out all these thoughts I can't seem to get straight.


It's ok to have those feelings. I think they are normal. Don't try to dismiss them outright. What will help the most is working through them, trying to pinpoint the root of it, whether it is fear or uncertainty or shame and where it comes from.

For example: I want him to marry me. Why? I don't want to be his "girlfriend" forever. Why? I don't want people thinking I am not important to him. Why? Because I'm not secure with myself to think that he will stay with me forever unless he is obligated to. Why? Because I don't have any confidence in myself. Why? Because when I was 16 my father told me I was ugly...

I'm just making stuff up but it's what my counselor told me to do after my wife's affair and it really helped. You'd be amazed at the kind of stuff you figure out about yourself by doing this exercise. The first few times you try it it might take a while and you may go down the wrong path, you may even need someone to walk you through it (a counselor), but if you keep trying and digging you'll start getting to the root of some of your issues.

The best part is that it makes you feel better. It's accepting your emotions and listening and accepting your body, there is a relief there that creates inner peace.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Soifon said:


> Haha! Thanks Scarlet! It does seem silly and when I brought that point up to him he said, "well I call you 'the wife' all the time". I just feel weird calling him my husband if he isn't. I need to pick something that feels right, I'm leaning towards partner.


I prefer "magical love goddess who can't be confined by traditional titles" 

go girl


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> It's like Sex and the City when Carrie refers to Big as her boyfriend and he says "aren't i a little old to be a boyfriend?" and she corrects it by saying "you're my manfriend"


Call him Man-Meat and then give a wink, all the husbands and wives will be jealous.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

I've briefly gotten down the line a little bit like you've said in the questioning yourself. That's why I think a therapist would be good for me. I know that a therapist can't make me accept him not wanting to marry but they can help me understand where my issue is because I know that somewhere down that line it is a problem I'm having with myself. I feel it I just don't know how to "fix it" for lack of a better term.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

COguy said:


> Call him Man-Meat and then give a wink, all the husbands and wives will be jealous.


:rofl: He would enjoy that one WAY too much! LOL


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

Soifon said:


> I've briefly gotten down the line a little bit like you've said in the questioning yourself. That's why I think a therapist would be good for me. I know that a therapist can't make me accept him not wanting to marry but they can help me understand where my issue is because I know that somewhere down that line it is a problem I'm having with myself. I feel it I just don't know how to "fix it" for lack of a better term.


It's a great idea and being able to recognize that is huge. It will allow you to get the most out of a session if you decide to go.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

Did you give your child his last name?


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

ScarletBegonias said:


> I prefer "magical love goddess who can't be confined by traditional titles"
> 
> go girl


I approve this message :smthumbup:


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

JJG said:


> Did you give your child his last name?


I did and my other child has his father's last name (my ExH) so now I am feeling a bit left out of my own family in that regard. It's just a name and what does that really mean anyway but something about it still leaves me feeling left out.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

Soifon said:


> I did and my other child has his father's last name (my ExH) so now I am feeling a bit left out of my own family in that regard. It's just a name and what does that really mean anyway but something about it still leaves me feeling left out.


*hugs* I can relate.

My son's school always thought I was just a guardian or caretaker bc my last name was different from his.I thank heaven's i never married his dad to get that same last name but at the time we were together and it really bothered me.Eventually school got the hang of it and realized the woman signing all the paperwork is MOM and not guardian or whatever.

I still had the issue at other places too.They always seemed to do a double take and question me bc my last name was different from my child.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

Soifon said:


> I did and my other child has his father's last name (my ExH) so now I am feeling a bit left out of my own family in that regard. It's just a name and what does that really mean anyway but something about it still leaves me feeling left out.



Here i think you have made a huge mistake, and if it isnt too late, I would change the babies last name to yours. I have never understood why unmarried mothers give children the fathers name, it makes no sense. Having the mans name as the 'Family' name (in my opinion) is a perk of being married. Why are you giving him this perk?


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

ScarletBegonias said:


> *hugs* I can relate.
> 
> My son's school always thought I was just a guardian or caretaker bc my last name was different from his.I thank heaven's i never married his dad to get that same last name but at the time we were together and it really bothered me.Eventually school got the hang of it and realized the woman signing all the paperwork is MOM and not guardian or whatever.
> 
> I still had the issue at other places too.They always seemed to do a double take and question me bc my last name was different from my child.


This is exactly my point. I have never understood why people do it.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

JJG said:


> This is exactly my point. I have never understood why people do it.


I think i felt I had to do it.I didn't care if my family name lived on through children but he cared about his living on bc he's an only child.

Plus I think bc i was in love,i was thinking we'd get married soon after the baby was born anyway so it wouldn't matter.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

Yeah... I see it.

Basically you were both closer to being on the same page before. Now you have a child and the insecurity is scary. Have you told him this? And yes - to the military - and legally - you are single.

I understand the argument that you have made your bed, now sleep in it - but I also think unfair as it may seem from some perspectives - it is unsurprising you are thinking about it now that you both have a child to care for.

So - lets assume he is killed in a tragic accident involving ketchup, 500 water baloons and a trashcan. Whatever. Where does that leave you and the baby... financially?

Bottom line here - you are both adults and need to start planning for the future more clearly. Do you have life insurance policies - with the partner (and child) listed as the beneficiaries? Have you looked into power of attourney and living wills in case one of you gets swept into the hospital and some serious decisions need to be made?

Marriage resolves some of that.. not all of it, but some of it.

Your problem is that you look like you are trapping him into marriage - hook up, have a kid, THEN insist on a marriage that he said before you got married you didnt want. Not a good position to be in.

Yeah - marriage isnt required, but it does have some important civil ramifications. If he isnt intrested in marriage - then you should at least make sure your child is protected in case of the worst. Note - that does NOT mean that this is your opportunity to use the child as leverage. No, no, no. *no*. In fact - you need to handle this very carefully at this point and be hyper-aware that by changing on this very important point - you have already sort of broken a certain trust and understanding that he thought he had.

Start with some of the legal and insurance things if you have not. That should alleviate some of the immediate threats - and he may be perfectly willing to do this. In time - maybe he will change his mind about the marriage thing, but I feel that is not something you can push for. I assume he knows your feelings at this point.

'I feel like I want a formal commitment of his feelings'.

Yeah - im not buying that. At all. I think you believe he loves you but that you are insecure now. After all - he could walk out tomorrow, right? Keep this in mind: marriage does not guarantee that either. In any case - call it what it is - you are scared. 

just babbling.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

JJG said:


> Here i think you have made a huge mistake, and if it isnt too late, I would change the babies last name to yours. I have never understood why unmarried mothers give children the fathers name, it makes no sense. Having the mans name as the 'Family' name (in my opinion) is a perk of being married. Why are you giving him this perk?


Because I guess I'm traditional in that sense, that children take on their father's name. I never associated that with being married to the mother.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

Soifon said:


> Because I guess I'm traditional in that sense, that children take on their father's name. I never associated that with being married to the mother.


Again, just my opinion. But the child has 'traditionally' taken the fathers name because it is the family name. That is not the case in your situation.

I think that he is getting every benefit of being married without giving you the security that you crave. Why would he change anything?

I was the same as you in that i was living with my boyfriend and wondering why he wasnt proposing. BUT i always told him i draw the line at children. No children until i am married and any 'surprises' will be given my name. I refused to sell myself short like that.

But then again, i also think marriage is a lot more than just a piece of paper . . .


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

This very simply comes down to: either accept he does not and will not ever marry you or leave.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

:iagree:


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

JJG said:


> Again, just my opinion. But the child has 'traditionally' taken the fathers name because it is the family name. That is not the case in your situation.
> 
> I think that he is getting every benefit of being married without giving you the security that you crave. Why would he change anything?
> 
> ...


I really appreciate your post and your take on the situation. I think this helps me get back a bit of seeing why I didn't believe in it either when we first got together. I've been through a loveless marriage and divorced. I walked away from that realizing (for myself) that it is just a piece of paper. That piece of paper didn't make me love or be loved and after my divorce I felt like it's not necessary. In all honesty I do still feel that way and as others have helped me see again that there are other legal avenues to make up for that kind of security I'm worried about. 

I think I want it for people like you (not saying this negatively) to show those types of people that we love each other as much as people who are married but how will you ever know that if we don't actually marry? 

As hard as it is to say and admit. It is my own insecurity and worrying about what other people think and I need to work on it, it's hard though  I want everyone to know how much we love each other, he is content with us knowing and doesn't care what other people see or think.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Soifon said:


> Thanks everyone. I'm not the type to give ultimatums. I would hate for him to marry me because he felt he had to. I want him to choose it on his own. I will talk to him about a ring exchange and see how he feels about it. We do have a great thing going and this isn't a deal breaker I just need to get over my initial sadness I guess. I hope that there is some way to work out the legal stuff.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*
I can understand you want to be married . Your boyfriend could be stationed outside the US. Without you being his legal wife ,you can't go. I think that is one important reason . Also not all states have the commonlaw marriage. Yes you knew how he felt about not getting married. But IMHO you now have a child together. So your way of thinking has changed now. Your boyfriend should not be called your husband (don't start telling lies to people) . I worked with a lady who had everyone thinking she was married. The guy got sick and she could not even go on FLMA. She and the boyfriend were only living together. She told us how great this guy was too. After seven years , he found another woman and moved out. He told her that she was just his gf/baby moma. Your boyfriend maybe wonderful to you and the baby.But he never married his other baby moma (redflag for you). The man has two children now by two different woman. The military sees marriage like the government. Your boyfriend is military so being his legal wife is very important. Without him around, you are no one to them. IMHO you should tell your boyfriend again how you feel. This is making you sad and will cause big problems later. *


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

OP -- it really can be all how you look at it. I feel that you actually have one up on me. Neither of you are risking staying in a miserable marriage because divorce is too costly. Would you stay for the kids? Maybe. Just like married people do sometimes. Would you be forced to stay in the relationship due to the cost of attorneys? Nope. not at all. 

I guess in my not very elegant way, I am stating that I think it shows the two people who are in LTR's without marriage show me that they truly want to be together, not that they feel legally obligated


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *
> I can understand you want to be married . Your boyfriend could be stationed outside the US. Without you being his legal wife ,you can't go. I think that is one important reason . Also not all states have the commonlaw marriage. Yes you knew how he felt about not getting married. But IMHO you now have a child together. So your way of thinking has changed now. Your boyfriend should not be called your husband (don't start telling lies to people) . I worked with a lady who had everyone thinking she was married. The guy got sick and she could not even go on FLMA. She and the boyfriend were only living together. She told us how great this guy was too. After seven years , he found another woman and moved out. He told her that she was just his gf/baby moma. Your boyfriend maybe wonderful to you and the baby.But he never married his other baby moma (redflag for you). The man has two children now by two different woman. The military sees marriage like the government. Your boyfriend is military so being his legal wife is very important. Without him around, you are no one to them. IMHO you should tell your boyfriend again how you feel. This is making you sad and will cause big problems later. *


Most of the time she can go when it is overseas, they just will not pay for her to go. As long as she can get through all the requirements to move there, nothing holding her back.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Soifon said:


> I think I want it for people like you (not saying this negatively) to show those types of people that we love each other as much as people who are married but how will you ever know that if we don't actually marry?
> 
> As hard as it is to say and admit. It is my own insecurity and worrying about what other people think and I need to work on it, it's hard though  I want everyone to know how much we love each other, he is content with us knowing and doesn't care what other people see or think.


Other people? It doesn't seem like this would be such a big deal to you if it were only about wanting other people to know you love each other. It wouldn't be creating all this anxiety if this issue were really about other people.

Are you sure that it's not YOU than needs to know and believe he loves you as much as people who are married?


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> This very simply comes down to: either accept he does not and will not ever marry you or leave.



*true and* :iagree:


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *
> But he never married his other baby moma (redflag for you). The man has two children now by two different woman. *


I don't see it as a red flag. He honestly does not believe in marriage. The fact that he never married her and never told her he would marry her supports his belief. He was willing to stay with her for their child even though he was unhappy being with her, he even tried marriage counseling with her. She didn't care about being unhappy she just wanted to be married so she left him. Two kids to two different women isn't ideal but it isn't exactly horrible or say anything about him as a person.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Most of the time she can go when it is overseas, they just will not pay for her to go. As long as she can get through all the requirements to move there, nothing holding her back.


He is National Guard so this isn't an issue. My only issue is in terms of deployment which you made me feel unbelievably better on.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

norajane said:


> Other people? It doesn't seem like this would be such a big deal to you if it were only about wanting other people to know you love each other. It wouldn't be creating all this anxiety if this issue were really about other people.
> 
> Are you sure that it's not YOU than needs to know and believe he loves you as much as people who are married?


This is possible. I don't know. I'm really confused in my own head. I just know that I am having these emotions and this sadness. Trying to pinpoint the problem is leaving my head very jumbled.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

Soifon said:


> He is National Guard so this isn't an issue. My only issue is in terms of deployment which you made me feel unbelievably better on.


 It really has come a long way. Back in the older days it was strictly wives. Branching out to parents, siblings, girlfriends now too. And I will admit it is better now that we have more views. 

Get him in to legal and get the paperwork set up in a way you are both comfortable with. Primary NOK and Secondary NOK should be something he changes first. It can all be worked out, don't let people scare you into thinking marriage is the only way to be involved.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Soifon said:


> I don't see it as a red flag. He honestly does not believe in marriage. The fact that he never married her and never told her he would marry her supports his belief. He was willing to stay with her for their child even though he was unhappy being with her, he even tried marriage counseling with her. She didn't care about being unhappy she just wanted to be married so she left him. Two kids to two different women isn't ideal but it isn't exactly horrible or say anything about him as a person.


*Ok the other baby moma wanted to be married too. That is why I said you will have problems too. You want to be married not just a gf or his baby moma. When I say redflag I am meaning he does not marry (just get kids ). You have change your mind and this will eat away at you now. That might be the reason for his problems with his ex. (two sides to every story). If he want marry you ,do you really think he is going to do any kind of legal paperwork? Jellybean said it simple stay with him as gf/baby moma or leave. IMHO he should be proud to show you off as his wife. You have said you want to be married . *


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Soifon said:


> This is possible. I don't know. I'm really confused in my own head. I just know that I am having these emotions and this sadness. Trying to pinpoint the problem is leaving my head very jumbled.


*For now just enjoy him and that baby. In a few weeks tell him again how this issue is making you feel very sad. Maybe he will be more understanding of your feeling. When he get deployed just stay busy. That will make the time past sooner. *


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Anytime you are waiting for someone to change, you are wasting your time. 

Leave or live with it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

He will not marry you. Sorry  I've been there and it is frustrating.

But you knew it then and you know it now. He didn't even marry his last gf and he had a child with her too.

Accept it or move on. Personally, if I wanted marriage, I couldn't stay with someone who didn't want marriage. It would eff with my self-esteem. But that's just me.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Jellybeans said:


> Anytime you are waiting for someone to change, you are wasting your time.
> 
> Leave or live with it.


I know that. I'm going to live with it, I guess I was just looking to talk it out with people that may have been through it or can offer ideas and suggestions. I feel a lot better after everyone's input and finally I think I'm having a day where it isn't bothering me at all. I even feel kind of happy just picturing us together in 20 years knowing there is no marriage or anything. A few days ago that image was putting me in tears. I'm getting there.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

i think it's normal to feel the way you do.I hope everything works out for you and things start to feel a bit better after you get the paperwork stuff out of the way.

I totally support marriage when both people want it but i don't think you have to be married in order to be committed 100% to someone.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know why you want to settle for less than what you want. No marriage means less security for the future. Even if just monetary.

When H and I were only living together, we still had papers drawn up for our own benefits. We had Power of Attorney papers (both medical and financial) and living wills/trusts written up and notarized. We found the company online ( Legacywriters.com I believe) and had them notarized in town. Best 100 bucks we spent to protect us and our children if ever there was an accident and/or one of us couldn't respond, etc. Hospitals are NOT kind to lovers..even lovers who have been together for a long time. We DID NOT want our parents to make decisions for us ...we are and were a team. WE wanted to be the ones to carry out each other's wishes and keep our stuff...NOT our parents, which is how it would have unfolded without those documents.

Protect yourself and your mate. Get those papers. I was completely satisfied with that and so was he. Marriage wasn't a big deal to us...until one day we both decided to get married.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry double post Can't delete it at work. Lame.


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## Airbus (Feb 8, 2012)

Soifon said:


> Absolutely not. I make more money than him I have a government job and a good pension* this isn't about money*. And yeah I changed my mind but I went to him to tell him that I had and to find out where he stood I don't expect him to change just because I have I had hoped that maybe he was as well, he isn't and now I am trying to come to terms with that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I should say this isn't about money; although long ago, and nothing really would have changed in our case, I, too, had a boyfriend who told me that he was never going to marry me. At the time, I tried to suck it up as best I could, but it kept ringing in my ears...I never brought up the subject with him. I just figured I wasn't good enough to marry and eventually we broke up and went our separate ways. The end.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Yea. To me, if I wanted to get married and he didn't...it would be a blow. So, I'm good enough to play house with and good enough to make a child with but NOT good enough to marry. Hmmmm....

I honestly didn't want marriage,until I wanted it and luckily H did too...right around the same time. It was after his vasectomy that we realized marriage was a good idea.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

that_girl said:


> Yea. To me, if I wanted to get married and he didn't...it would be a blow. So, I'm good enough to play house with and good enough to make a child with but NOT good enough to marry. Hmmmm....


 Under other circumstances I would agree. But he made his intentions crystal clear from the get go. He did not want marriage, and he does not want it still. I can not knock him for that. Everything else that went on was with the knowledge that he didn't want marriage.


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## EddieJ333 (Mar 10, 2012)

There are some issues into a man's mind that prevent them from getting married. They have a lot of excuses, but the basic reason almost every man has, but most times he doesn't want to ever think about it, is the sense of losing his freedom. If you focus on understanding his idea of freedom (for what he wants his freedom) and you can convince him that by marrying you he won't lose any of the things he considers to conform his independence and liberty, maybe you can get him thinking about matrimoy before you even mention that word. There are more useful advice I found once in a web place who is intended for helping women to get married though the place and the e-book you can find there were written by men. I have to agree that the advice and methods you can find there will be very useful for women to get what you are wanting from your man: to feel compelled to marry you without noticing that you inspired those ideas. And indeed there is no need of even mentioning the words "wedding", "compromise" or "engagement" when you talk to him. I don't know if I can give you the link for visiting it, but for not havin any trouble you can get into it very easily because its name is precisely how can i get married dot com. I hope it helps.


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## galian84 (May 7, 2012)

Hmm, I don't think he will change his mind, either :/ Stranger things have happened, though, but I wouldn't sit around and wait for him. You want marriage now, he doesn't...that's a big difference you guys have. 

The way I see it, if you're going to be with someone forever (supposedly) anyway, why NOT get that piece of paper to make your girlfriend feel more secure? 

For me, I personally won't have children with anyone unless I'm married to them, and I went on the most reliable birth control I could find as soon as I became sexually active  

One of the first things I asked my boyfriend when we began dating, was if he was open to re-marriage. If he had said no, I don't think it would have worked. Even though I didn't want to get married either, and still don't at this point in time, I'm fully aware that I most likely will change my mind as I get older and more financially secure. And I needed to be with a man who was open-minded about marriage and kids. 

That, and my family wouldn't stand for it if I was just living with a boyfriend for the rest of my life. Or had a child with a man who wasn't my husband. They would never accept him as family and thus he would be excluded from family events. The same with my boyfriend's family...my family is traditional, his is religious. Without marriage, both of our families, as well as the government, consider us to be single.

Kind of went off-track there, but as I see it now, your boyfriend has no reason to marry you...he's already getting a "marriage" without the legal commitment that you want. My father told me...it is easier to move a mountain than to get somebody to change. Either you stay with the knowledge that you will be his girlfriend / baby mama forever, or leave and find somebody who wants what you want, however painful that may be. I don't know if talking to him again will change anything, he already knows your feelings and he's made his intentions clear.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

*What's confusing me is the boyfriend can just keep getting babies without a care in the world. He now has two baby momas. If she leave, he will just move on to the next female . He does not believe in marriage or protection . JMO I would think hard before having anymore children with this man. She wants what he does not and that is marriage. IMHO this relationship will not end well. OP can only fake being happy with everything for so long. *


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *What's confusing me is the boyfriend can just keep getting babies without a care in the world. He now has two baby momas. If she leave, he will just move on to the next female . He does not believe in marriage or protection . JMO I would think hard before having anymore children with this man. She wants what he does not and that is marriage. IMHO this relationship will not end well. OP can only fake being happy with everything for so long. *


Lol! I'm not faking being happy. I am happy, happier than I've ever been with anyone. I didn't want marriage at the start of this either so we entered into this relationship with the idea of it being a long term committed relationship without marriage. I had feelings of changing my mind and I told him. I'd rather not be married to him and be with him forever then lose him. I don't know why I should leave someone I love because of marriage. I love him enough to marry him and I love him enough to stay without it, no one else could replace him in my life. Talk to me in 20 years and I have no doubt we will still be together. I guess some people can't understand this path, oh well I've accepted it and am no less happy when I lay in bed next to him every night.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

galian84 said:


> Hmm, I don't think he will change his mind, either :/ Stranger things have happened, though, but I wouldn't sit around and wait for him. *You want marriage now, he doesn't...that's a big difference*


:iagree:

*The name of this thread says it all*.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Soifon said:


> *We just had a baby together and I feel like my stance on marriage has changed again*. *doesn't plan on ever marrying me*. He wants us to be together and sees a future with me and to continue on as a family but sees no need to be married. *I'm feeling crushed.* I know that I knew this from the beginning *but I had hoped that his feelings were changing as mine have.*
> He doesn't believe in marriage because everyone he has ever known that was married either ended in divorce or is miserable. His favorite Aunt on the other hand has been with her SO for over 25 years, never married and they are successful with children and are still to this day happy and in love with each other.
> 
> *I don't know what to do at this point.*
> ...


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Who claims your child on your tax returns, since you can't file jointly?


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

Soifon said:


> *I'd rather not be married to him and be with him forever* then lose him. I don't know why I should leave someone I love because of marriage. I love him enough to marry him and *I love him enough to stay without it, no one else could replace him in my life.* Talk to me in 20 years and I have no doubt we will still be together. I guess some people can't understand this path, oh well *I've accepted it * and am no less happy when I lay in bed next to him every night.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then why are you here? :scratchhead:


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

southern wife said:


> Then why are you here? :scratchhead:


:iagree:


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

southern wife said:


> Then why are you here? :scratchhead:


Because I wanted to vent, talk it out, figure out how I felt and what I should do. I've done that I've thought about this A LOT. This really was never a question of me leaving him. It was a question of me trying to find a way to cope with how I was feeling. Keep in mind that I had a baby 7 weeks ago, am very emotional and all over the place, he is deploying to Afghanistan in the near future. It's a lot to take in and deal with.

Edit: Also, a lot of this stems around the deployment. If you have ever experienced this maybe you can understand. It has been on my mind and as the date gets closer I think about it more and get even more scared. Couple that in with the baby and hormonal changes and yeah I'm a mess. The thought of my partner in life being on the other side of the world in a dangerous place that he may not come home from messes with your head. This is my first time dealing with it and I thought I would be left in the dark when he leaves, Dawn gave me the reassurance that I needed and I cannot tell you enough that I feel 1,000,000,000 times better than when I posted this thread just from her information alone. I guess it's just hard to understand or I'm not explaining myself well at all.


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *I don't know why you are LOL :scratchhead:. You need to go back and read your post again . You have written about a sad situation. Your own words is all I have to go by here. It is no need trying to play it down now. You are not fooling anyone here . I noticed you don't mention his other child. You tell of him being a wonderful father to your child. Baby Moma number one had the same idea (a future with him). Before you tell of problems with the other baby moma (two side to every story). You can only pretend for so long. This will slowly eat away at you. *


I'm LOL'ing because you have this completely wrong. I came here to vent about something that I was sad on. So you think that makes me unhappy across the board? People are neither entirely happy nor entirely sad with every single aspect of life and relationships. There are too many variables to say one thing effects everything. If it does for you fine but it doesn't for me.

I said he was a great father and great with my child. As in he is a great father to his children (mine and his ex's) and great with MY child (my son that is not his).


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

southern wife said:


> Then why are you here? :scratchhead:


Of all the posts on TAM ( members posting in social spot just to flirt with other members, SPAM, people posting just to get a rise out of people) this is the one people question??


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## Soifon (Oct 5, 2012)

Thank you Dawn, I really feel so much better from your posts. I know it's seems crazy to flip so fast but like I said, my hormones are going crazy right now. You have really helped me out a lot with your insight. Hopefully I can refrain from continuing on with this thread and it can die a slow painful death lol. It's like a ringing telephone though, I _have_ to answer it for some reason


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## DocHoliday (Jan 19, 2012)

You are entitled to change your mind.

Marriage is WAY MORE than "just a piece of paper".

Problem is, due to circumstances, you have changed your mind.
You can not make him change his.

If you force him into a marriage, he may resent you. (LOTS of threads about this on TAM)

Read the article, buyers, renters and freeloaders - figure out what you are, what he is and what you want out of your life.

I am so sorry that you are here. In this type of deal SOMEONE is going to have to settle, this type of emotion tends to not just go away.

You need long term planning for yourself and your child. You are going to have to decide if you want a husband, boyfriend, SO or no partner at all.
When you decide that, you are going to have to make a plan to make yourself happy.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

Soifon said:


> I'm LOL'ing because you have this completely wrong. I came here to vent about something that I was sad on. .


* I am not wrong for wanting marriage for you too.

Well I hope he does ask you to marry him before he get deployed. (on his own without any pressure from you) Then you come back and tell us about it. I am wishing you the best of luck. Because you have kids , I want you to be happy . 

I already know you have no plans to leave him . I just don't want this to stress you out like today. Something like this could eat away at you over time. goodluck*


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

DawnD said:


> Of all the posts on TAM ( members posting in social spot just to flirt with other members, SPAM, people posting just to get a rise out of people) this is the one people question??


Woah there, Nelly. I only asked that question because of the OP's statements that I put in bold. Just trying to understand since she says she really does accept her SO's position on never getting married, and has fully accepted it, and is totally happy with him.

Of course it's fine to toss out thoughts, ideas, and get feedback, answers, links to information, etc, as you've done such a fine job at.


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## mrstj4sho88 (Sep 5, 2012)

DawnD said:


> Of all the posts on TAM ( members posting in social spot just to flirt with other members, SPAM, people posting just to get a rise out of people) this is the one people question??




*Wait just one second. Some of us was confused by the name of the thread and the words written by the OP. I for one was trying to get it correct too. I don't see why you had to go wild with your comment here. You did not need to go to that level with us. OP is a big girl and can handle her own. If you just read her comment, you would know that about her. This is an open forum where people will ask questions,be confused sometimes,vent,and hopefully get help. JMO different opinions my not always help the OP (but it could help someone else here). The OP might not give everyone a shout out (but we all have given ideas good or bad to help her think about) As I stated before I just want her to be happy. *

*Our hearts were in the right place .*


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> *Our hearts were in the right place .*


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

southern wife said:


> Woah there, Nelly. I only asked that question because of the OP's statements that I put in bold. Just trying to understand since she says she really does accept her SO's position on never getting married, and has fully accepted it, and is totally happy with him.
> 
> Of course it's fine to toss out thoughts, ideas, and get feedback, answers, links to information, etc, as you've done such a fine job at.


I am not accusing you of anything, just wondering why on this specific question. It is in the general board, it is a relationship discussion, and I don't think people realize the effect asking new members "So why are you here then?" can have. If it were in the wrong area, sure. If it was someone who was denying evidence in front of them, okay. I don't see the need for it in this specific thread. She has stated several times that she just wanted to get it out on paper, get inside her own head a little, and make some choices.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

mrstj4sho88 said:


> * I don't see why you had to go wild with your comment here. You did not need to go to that level with us. *
> 
> *Our hearts were in the right place .*


What??? What level? It was quite a simple question. I myself consider it rude. But going wild would have been a rant about how rude it was. I made a simple statement of why question her intent on this thread.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

DawnD said:


> Under other circumstances I would agree. But he made his intentions crystal clear from the get go. He did not want marriage, and he does not want it still. I can not knock him for that. Everything else that went on was with the knowledge that he didn't want marriage.


And I completely agree. 

It wouldn't change how I would feel. For myself, I couldn't hang. I would understand his position, but I'd still not feel good about it.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do suggest just getting papers drawn up.


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