# Lurking betrayed spouse? We're here for you



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just read the sticky posts, look at the resources, browse the threads and post if and when you feel able.

And please remember, none of this is your fault.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

And you're not the only one feeling the hurt.
And yes it hurts like h e l l.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> *none of this is your fault.*


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: SO very important to realize.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

It hurts. And I posted here a long time before I could get the nerve to post my story up, eventhough it was somewhat concluded. 

Its definitely worth doing so, as the posters here helped clear my mind with how to deal with a traumatic ex attempting to reenter my life.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> And please remember, none of this is your fault.


I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever. 

I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.

What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.
> 
> I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.
> 
> What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.



That argument is trash and enabling. 

If theres problems in a relationship, its up to each partner to communicate. If the relationship is bad each take 50% of the blame for the bad relationship. When one spouse cheats he/she takes 100% of the blame for the affiar, no exceptions, no rationalizations, and no justifications. 

Now if someone dumps them, and theres no cheating and has been trying communicate with an unresponsive partner, thats fine. Thats the honorable thing to do.

However if they couldn't communicate their problems effectively and resent their partners and would just step out rather than fix the problems in the relationship, then they're too immature to be in a serious relationship in the first place.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

Kasler said:


> However if they couldn't communicate their problems effectively and resent their partners and would just step out rather than fix the problems in the relationship, then they're too immature to be in a serious relationship in the first place.


Ok, cheaters are immature and shouldn't have been in a serious relationship in the first place.

So?


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.


Well, often with the pressures of life, real life, work and responsibility do take precedence in the family unit over the romantic desires of both partners. Sure it can be seriously crap. Sure it can be monotonous and boring, but that is real life sometimes. It can go on months or in the case of kids years. Guess what. You signed up for it.




> I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.


It is called cheating for a reason. The BS often has no idea that there is a problem. The WS is telling their Affair Partner the ways in which the "relationship is failing" who is wholeheartedly agreeing with them in an positive feedback loop. 
They are not sharing anything with their spouse, so how could they possible work on it. 
One of the most hurtful things about cheating is that as the BS you are given no chance to work on the relationship with your partner.



> What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.


This is a different thing and in this case their is a chance at reconciliation or acceptance in both parties because one of the partners is not lying as a matter of course.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

ing said:


> Guess what. You signed up for it.


Again, so what. People walk away from marriages with nary a second thought. Their signature on a marriage license means nothing to them. Marriage, for all practical purposes, means nothing because it is a contract that is easily broken. 



ing said:


> It is called cheating for a reason.


Right, because it's deception. I don't think you'll find many to argue that point.



ing said:


> The BS often has no idea that there is a problem.


In the scenarios I described, the WS has made numerous attempts over the years to explain the many problems and the BS either didn't notice, didn't care, or didn't have what it took to make the requested changes that the WS requested. In that case there is shared blame for the demise of the relationship. That's the point I was making.



ing said:


> One of the most hurtful things about cheating is that as the BS you are given no chance to work on the relationship with your partner.


Again, that is not always the case.


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## Kasler (Jul 20, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> Ok, cheaters are immature and shouldn't have been in a serious relationship in the first place.
> 
> So?


You're talking about some 1990s marriage counseling concept, where if theres an affair its always a result of the marriage.

Thats crap. Its the result of someone having no grace and low morals.

So when you're saying so I don't think you completely understand.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

There are tons of great wives and husbands that get cheated on. It is not because they did not do this or that. They BS has nothing to do with the cause of a cheating.
I meet all of my H's needs and he still cheated. I guess the only need I did not meet was his need for another woman. 
I hate when people blame others for their actions and I hate it even more when the cheater tries to blame their spouse to validate their stupid actions. Boils the blood to steaming mad.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

No one is responsible for the actions of another and that is a fact.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

> Again, so what. People walk away from marriages with nary a second thought. Their signature on a marriage license means nothing to them. Marriage, for all practical purposes, means nothing because it is a contract that is easily broken.


Marriage itself may not, but where there are children involved there is a contract. That is what I meant by "you signed up for it"



> Right, because it's deception. I don't think you'll find many to argue that point.


Deception and further to that it is abuse of the other partner because it denies them the chance to act in full knowledge.



> In the scenarios I described, the WS has made numerous attempts over the years to explain the many problems and the BS either didn't notice, didn't care, or didn't have what it took to make the requested changes that the WS requested. In that case there is shared blame for the demise of the relationship. That's the point I was making.


I disagree. The blame for the affair has nothing to do with the BS. I know in my case there were no 
"requested changes" there were no signs of it other than a a a rapid change of attitude to me and the kids. It is why people are so blindsided. The WS cuts the BS out of the loop. 



Where a cheater walks away hand in hand with their new loved one the BS has no say or is even listened to. 

Where the cheater ends the affair on discovery there is a chance to discuss the relationship, however there is now a huge new elephant in the room. One that, sadly, is almost impossible to get over for many BS. The relationship ends because of that and not pre-existing marital problems. If there were any!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sharkeey said:


> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.
> 
> I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.
> 
> What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.


This is typical thinking, and why so many BS's do blame themselves. What many people don't understand is that the state of the marriage is separate from the choice to cheat. If someone is in a 'bad' relationship, they have 4 choices.
1. Ignore the problems and just carry on
2. get a divorce
3. work on the marriage
4. Cheat

When our marriage sucked, I chose #1 and he chose #4. He chose #4 because he was a selfish lying cheater, not because I chose #1. His choice is 100% on HIM and mine is on me. Neither was the right choice. If he had come to me and said things were so bad he felt like cheating but didn't want to, we could have chosen #2 or #3 together. It was his choice to do what he did and not do what he should have.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> Ok, cheaters are immature and shouldn't have been in a serious relationship in the first place.
> 
> So?


maybe that was a bit harsh. Here is what i have picked up from being on here a while. All marriages have problems. You sort them out with each other. didn't take the dishes out and put them away (stop being lazy), husband been at work too much ( meet each other for lunch), tight on money ( stop going out to eat). That is where the marriage is working now when one partner withdrawals because he she has an emotional issue or serious issue. i have cancer (I'll be with you) and then the stress on the healthy spouse is too much . Or something else big happens. Maybe nothing really happens at all it is jut a mid life crisis or something else. One person in the relationship withdrawals. Then they start talking to someone else OW OM. It starts out casual and since the withdrawing partner has no one to turn to they start to seek this OW OM out. This is the point where I believe the Loyal spouse ceases to be the major issue. 
Why becauseeeeee.....
They develop a friendship talk alot the WS and the OM/OW are starting to develop an inappropriate bond. Meeting for coffee, inside jokes, and generally starting to have a connection. 
This is where you are going to star hearing the WS complain about the marriage. Because this OW is perfect and is giving the the WS all the attention and emotional support that is supposed to be shared with the WS' Significant other.

That means that the Loyal Spouse is being neglected emotionally. This is where the distance forms. The WS will start talking about this new friend. Maybe even start comparing his W to the OW or bringing the OW name up by saying things like. I talked to my friends about this and they agree with me. 

Then the WS starts getting fully emotional attached to the OW/OM and starts to pursue a PA. This is usually where the conflict comes in. The guilt hits home. The WS starts realizing that he / she is way far away from where they should be. (only if you are lucky some justifiy it with the bull they caused in becoming too close to the OW/OM) They may start acting extremely odd or distant. They may disconnect or give the I am in love with you but not in love with you line. They may spill their guts. They may think they have married the wrong one. 

Then the game begins the lies and double lives. the abusive or neglectful behavior intensifies as the pressure builds. Then there comes DDAY. It is likely the WS will actually feel better at this point. But now to try and save dignity and pride they try to reach for the hollow and shameful excuses they used to get into the affair. "you didn't give me love or affection." "how could I when you spent half your day talking and chasing this OW" 

The excuses and hollow justifications become part of A. The lies and the betrayals and the hurts inflicted on the LS drage the WS back to the days where they were happy. They start wondering where it all went wrong the Affair Fog starts to lift and they are faced with the horrible truth. 

Once you start looking outside your marriage for something you should have in your marriage. There is nothing your wife or husband can do until you decide to get back into the marriage. That is just how it is.


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## StagesOfGrief (Aug 19, 2012)

I was a lurker for months before I shared my story - while lurking helps - the advice and input isnt the same as you'd get from sharing your personal story. No matter how similar your story sounds to someone elses, it isn't the same because you are your own individual. 

Join the site, share your story, get the support. This place is the only thing that has kept me EVEN remotely grounded.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

badbane said:


> maybe that was a bit harsh. Here is what i have picked up from being on here a while. All marriages have problems. You sort them out with each other. didn't take the dishes out and put them away (stop being lazy), husband been at work too much ( meet each other for lunch), tight on money ( stop going out to eat). That is where the marriage is working now when one partner withdrawals because he she has an emotional issue or serious issue. i have cancer (I'll be with you) and then the stress on the healthy spouse is too much . Or something else big happens. Maybe nothing really happens at all it is jut a mid life crisis or something else. One person in the relationship withdrawals. Then they start talking to someone else OW OM. It starts out casual and since the withdrawing partner has no one to turn to they start to seek this OW OM out. This is the point where I believe the Loyal spouse ceases to be the major issue.
> Why becauseeeeee.....
> They develop a friendship talk alot the WS and the OM/OW are starting to develop an inappropriate bond. Meeting for coffee, inside jokes, and generally starting to have a connection.
> This is where you are going to star hearing the WS complain about the marriage. Because this OW is perfect and is giving the the WS all the attention and emotional support that is supposed to be shared with the WS' Significant other.
> ...


Fab post badbane. Absolutely spot on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.
> 
> I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.
> 
> What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.


In that case they might have been 'cheating' with an idea, a fantasy, not a physical being?


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

Well let's not forget that sometimes, good spouses are just thrown under a bus. 

I provided amply for my wife financially. I kept myself in great shape. I had diverse interest. I loved talking with her, and I did enjoy the emotional intimacy. And I gave her the affection she would shower me with. 

Who would've thought I'd be here in 3 years after saying "I do." Huh?

Don't assume the BS always shares a part of the blame.


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## StagesOfGrief (Aug 19, 2012)

Juicer said:


> Well let's not forget that sometimes, good spouses are just thrown under a bus.
> 
> I provided amply for my wife financially. I kept myself in great shape. I had diverse interest. I loved talking with her, and I did enjoy the emotional intimacy. And I gave her the affection she would shower me with.
> 
> ...


I'm not arrogant, but I'm in your same shoes, I was a freaking superstar husband, but it only took me two months to be her after saying "I do." She duped me pretty well.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

sharkeey said:


> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.


Before being cheated on, I probably would have agreed with some of this. However, there are also many cases where the BS is a pleaser and does everything to try and meet the needs of their WS, even to the extent of suppressing their own and they still get cheated on. 

There was nothing I could do to prevent my ex common-law H from cheating on me. No amount of great meals, dressing attractively, staying in shape, being sexually available or adventurous, having interesting things to talk about, giving him massages, having my own hobbies, supporting his hobbies and need for time alone, etc., etc. prevented him from cheating. 

He's an unhappy man and that problem is internal and not my cross to bear. Nothing I did stopped him from cheating and there was nothing I could have done to stop him from cheating. His infidelity is his bad choice to own and not mine. His happiness is something he has to find within himself. Unfortunately, only one of us realizes that today because he still thinks he can find A,B,C, or D to make him happy from the outside in. It doesn't work that way.


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## Kurosity (Dec 22, 2011)

Miss Taken said:


> He's an unhappy man and that problem is internal and not my cross to bear. Nothing I did stopped him from cheating and there was nothing I could have done to stop him from cheating. His infidelity is his bad choice to own and not mine. His happiness is something he has to find within himself. Unfortunately, only one of us realizes that today because he still thinks he can find A,B,C, or D to make him happy from the outside in. It doesn't work that way.


I agree and relate to you here Miss Taken
To think that what we do is going to keep our spouse from cheating means that I would have to believe that someone else is responsible for my happiness and me theirs. 
I think it is a cop out to blame the other person for the actions of the self. 
Also I do not believe that all cheating happens in marriages with trouble. I fully believe it can happen to the best of marriages because of the human factor in the whole thing.


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## TroubledInMI (Sep 4, 2012)

Miss Taken said:


> His infidelity is his bad choice to own and not mine. His happiness is something he has to find within himself. Unfortunately, only one of us realizes that today because he still thinks he can find A,B,C, or D to make him happy from the outside in. It doesn't work that way.


This is the most profound thing I've read in quite a while. How the hell can anyone be happy with someone else unless they can be happy with themselves first?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Miss Taken said:


> Before being cheated on, I probably would have agreed with some of this. However, there are also many cases where the BS is a pleaser and does everything to try and meet the needs of their WS, even to the extent of suppressing their own and they still get cheated on.
> 
> There was nothing I could do to prevent my ex common-law H from cheating on me. No amount of great meals, dressing attractively, staying in shape, being sexually available or adventurous, having interesting things to talk about, giving him massages, having my own hobbies, supporting his hobbies and need for time alone, etc., etc. prevented him from cheating.
> 
> He's an unhappy man and that problem is internal and not my cross to bear. Nothing I did stopped him from cheating and there was nothing I could have done to stop him from cheating. His infidelity is his bad choice to own and not mine. His happiness is something he has to find within himself. Unfortunately, only one of us realizes that today because he still thinks he can find A,B,C, or D to make him happy from the outside in. It doesn't work that way.


Excellent post! This is so true.

The problem is that the WS in reality takes responsibility for his own happyness - he does it by making a very bad choice and cheat. Is that a twisted logic?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

sharkeey said:


> I've read countless stories where there were years of the cheating spouse (prior to the affair) complaining about how they weren't getting enough romance, enough attention, enough sex.. and the betrayed spouse talks about how they ignored all those signs, and got caught up with work, or the TV, or video games, or porn, or whatever.
> 
> I'm not saying cheating is "right", but I'm suggesting that if the betrayed spouse was more responsive to their partners complaints, then perhaps they might not have strayed in the first place.
> 
> What if the spouse is a "walkaway" for the same reasons I stated above, but there was no cheating? Again, we've got a spouse who was dumped because they failed to meet their partner's needs. A relationship that has failed but might have succeeded if the person who was betrayed, or dumped, listened to their partner and learned how to better meet their needs.


I completely disagree with this.
In my case, our family ended up being verbally abused by my spouse, I needed him to support our family, be a father,be a partner. Talk to us, not verbally abuse us. Get treatment. Rather than make an effort to save our 27 year marriage, he found it easier to seek out other women who did not know his history and start over. He was not truthful with me, and he's not truthful with them. I'm left to pick up the pieces. He is a coward. The only way I could have "met his needs" was to lay down, shut up and take it. No thanks.


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## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

Pluto2 said:


> I completely disagree with thisThe only way I could have "met his needs" was to lay down, shut up and take it. No thanks.





Miss Taken said:


> Before being cheated on, I probably would have agreed with some of this. However, there are also many cases where the BS is a pleaser and does everything to try and meet the needs of their WS, even to the extent of suppressing their own and they still get cheated on.


Your situations were different then the scenario I posted about.

It's not always the same each and every time.


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