# A question for the W/spouse's



## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I've heard a lot on here about how a WS will re-wright the history of there marriage when having an A. When my H speaks of OW now it's all about the drama & lies she told.

My question is, After the A is over & you're having to deal with the fall out, Does the feelings of romance & excitement fade & you start to see the OW/OM in a different light? 

This is something I've been struggling with. I really want to know if my H's Trying to play this down to me, or if your perspective of the A changes with time. Any answers you may have would really help.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

Devastated an lost said:


> I've heard a lot on here about how a WS will re-wright the history of there marriage when having an A. When my H speaks of OW now it's all about the drama & lies she told.
> 
> My question is, After the A is over & you're having to deal with the fall out, Does the feelings of romance & excitement fade & you start to see the OW/OM in a different light?
> 
> This is something I've been struggling with. I really want to know if my H's Trying to play this down to me, or if your perspective of the A changes with time. Any answers you may have would really help.


I'm no expert but when people somehow get there head out of "FOG" they see things in a better perspective.

Are you going into individual counseling? I suggest you enter into one. It will help into a healing process.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

In my case, I legitimately hate my OM. But my hatred for him didn’t come until later after fully evaluating how things went down. It took me a long time of deep thinking to really realize what an absolute manipulator he was. Keep in mind, mine was only a one time thing though, I didn’t have a “relationship” with him so maybe that’s what took me longer to see him for what he really is.

But maybe you WS feelings about their AP came from the same kind of deep thinking. Since I’m assuming your spouse was in more of a relationship type affair, I would assume it’s similar to the realizations that come when any kind of relationship ends. There are positives and negatives. I think a lot of people are more willing to accept people’s shortcomings when they are in a relationship with them. 

As my marriage is ending, I can see all sorts of glaring problems that may have bothered me before, but weren’t always things that were in the front of my mind while I was trying to make the marriage a good one. My husband abuses money. While that did drive me crazy, it wasn’t a deal breaker for me. We argued about it, but I never would have left him over it, I just would’ve taken some other steps to fix it. Now I can see what a glaring problem it really is because I’m being forced to remove myself from the emotional side of it. My husband has a porn addiction. Which I hated during our relationship days, and we’d fight about it. But once again, having to remove myself from the emotional side of it, I can now see how much it damaged my marriage. 

I think the term “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone” applies to positive and negative things. While you’re in the relationship it’s hard to really look at the GOOD and BAD things. And then when it’s gone, the good and bad become more obvious.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I think it depends.
If someone really feels remorse for what they have done and the choices they made, then they can see the OM/OW in a different light. The WS will see them as someone associated with pain.

But not all WS feel remorse, or learn from their choices. In those cases, the OM/OW was a nice person....you two could be friends.....kind of crap.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Yes but so what? People can convince themselves of anything. 

If they want to **** someone else, suddenly their spouse is hitler and the other person is ghandi. 

Then if they get busted and they're remorseful, suddenly the roles switch in their mind.

Does it matter? No. 

People lie to themselves and re-write history all the time. It's a survival mechanism. 

do I believe what people are saying? I sometimes believe that they believe it. But it doesn't make it true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

LosingHim said:


> I think the term “you don’t know what you’ve got until it’s gone” applies to positive and negative things. While you’re in the relationship it’s hard to really look at the GOOD and BAD things. And then when it’s gone, the good and bad become more obvious.


Along with the enhanced ability to self-reflect comes with the opportunity to build one's emotional intelligence. You've highlighted a point that I had yet to consider as it relates to emotional IQ.

Relationship Teacher


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Relationship Teacher said:


> Along with the enhanced ability to self-reflect comes with the opportunity to build one's emotional intelligence. You've highlighted a point that I had yet to consider as it relates to emotional IQ.
> 
> Relationship Teacher


I have been thinking about this for a while & have never seen it addressed here. i thought it would be helpful to get some insight.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

marduk said:


> Yes but so what? People can convince themselves of anything.
> 
> If they want to **** someone else, suddenly their spouse is hitler and the other person is ghandi.
> 
> ...


It matters to me. I can't bear the thought of him still seeing her as perfect..


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

Devastated an lost said:


> I have been thinking about this for a while & have never seen it addressed here. i thought it would be helpful to get some insight.


Typically, individuals are averse to negative emotions. As such, they go into denial or reciprocate with negative reactions. What is lost in this is the aforementioned chance to self-reflect. This reflection should be done during the period of elevated emotions and afterwards.

I feel negative because of _________.
Why do I feel this way?
What were the circumstances?
Why is ______ bad?
Why should I be unhappy because of _________.
Does _________ make me less of a person?

The more questions that can be asked, the better. It gives you the chance to inject logic and common sense into a time that is typically dominated by emotions/stress. Any difficulty in posing and answering these questions highlights how compromised our thinking ability is when emotional/stressed. Not only is this a powerful coping mechanism, but one that assists in breaking useless emotional reactions. Building one's emotional IQ means to be able to better handle stressors, communicate better, understand others better with empathy/acceptance/respect, and (in my opinion) mostly to proactively eliminate future conflict.

Relationship Teacher


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## Bananapeel (May 4, 2015)

MY XWW's opinion of the OM changed after the affair. She went from loving him completely and being willing to give up everything for him to hating him in a matter of months, or at least that was what she told me shortly after the divorce. Not that it makes any difference to me what she thinks of him.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Devastated an lost said:


> It matters to me. I can't bear the thought of him still seeing her as perfect..


My point is that he may very will no longer see her as perfect...

But that he very well could have.

People can change on a dime. So I would recommend getting to a place where you can accept that and be ready for it.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Devastated an lost said:


> It matters to me. I can't bear the thought of him still seeing her as perfect..


My husband has talked to his ex girlfriend our entire marriage. To the tune of 1500 messages/month. He has essentially had an on again off again emotional affair with her our entire marriage.

One time when they were "off again" I actually got him to talk about her. (I was TRYING to accept her as a person in his life at that time). This would've been 4-5 years ago. He told me that she was a major pain in his ass when they dated, that she annoyed him and that their relationship never should have even happened. (she was his best friends sister and he lived with his best friend at the time due to family issues at home). 

But, even given all that he said that was negative about her, he never stopped talking to her regardless of how it affected our marriage. So I never really believed the negative things he said about her.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My ex-husband told me one thing about his girlfriend and told her something else entirely. For example, while he was telling me that he absolutely didn't love her, he was telling her he loved her more than life. And that was during a period when they were supposedly not in touch. However, once I blew that up and decided to divorce him then he quickly met someone else and married the new person so maybe the fog was gone and he finally realized who she really was (as he had been assuring me he did). Who knows though. The thing is -- you never can be sure of what's going on in someone else's head. Do they truly mean what they say or not. That's part of what makes R so very tough.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Devastated an lost said:


> It matters to me. I can't bear the thought of him still seeing her as perfect..


It's difficult, I know. But the truth is you will never 100% be sure about how he really feels deep inside. That's one of the things you have to accept when you R. In my case, I wondered how much of my ex-husband's reluctance to divorce was due to the fact that he just didn't want to lose that very comfortable life he had. He swore that was not the case but who knows. I lived with that thought for the 30 years I was in R. 

I still think you should consider therapy to help you with this. I didn't and my struggles were harder than they might have been otherwise.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Openminded said:


> It's difficult, I know. But the truth is you will never 100% be sure about how he really feels deep inside. That's one of the things you have to accept when you R. In my case, I wondered how much of my ex-husband's reluctance to divorce was due to the fact that he just didn't want to lose that very comfortable life he had. He swore that was not the case but who knows. I lived with that thought for the 30 years I was in R.
> 
> I still think you should consider therapy to help you with this. I didn't and my struggles were harder than they might have been otherwise.


 @Openminded,

What you said here is the way I think about it too. It's hard to always wonder knowing you'll never get the whole story. There's some things I don't even think therapy can heal. We just have to smile & keep going...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@Devastated an lost, 

I'm coming out of retirement just for you--to answer your question as someone who is a recovered WS. 

First, you know me--I deeply respect a lot of people here. But you asked a question for WS's and I'd like to encourage you to wait a bit and see if more WS's reply, because although the BS's view is valid, it's not going to be the same as a WS's experience. Okay? So hopefully a few more Wandering Spouses will come on your thread and give you their thoughts.

Second, let me tell you what it was like for me. You ask "After the A is over & you're having to deal with the fall out, does the feelings of romance & excitement fade & you start to see the OW/OM in a different light?" For me, I do not hate the OM for two reasons: a) I am not a hateful kind of person--I'm generally pretty peace-loving, and b) I am the guilty party. That's not to say he was guilt-free, but I am the one who was married and stepped outside my marriage, not him. So I see no reason to HATE him. 

But to speak more directly to your question, I can answer with a big, resounding "YES!!" When the affair was starting, I was not looking for anything really. I felt lonely, but I wasn't looking to fill that with someone else...it just made me vulnerable. Then, when he expressed interest, it wasn't "Oh by the way I think you are interesting..." which is kind of small, but rather it felt like being hit with a hammer--he was INTERESTED and he PURSUED. He spent time and took the time to do things to express interest. He took the time to say out loud that he thought I was something special. And having that kind of INTEREST in me was surprising; I was not prepared. It just shocked me! But yes it also felt good: someone thought highly of me. 

You can tell--that was the "high" part...the "fog" as people call it... because I clearly was not thinking realistically. I was so shocked that it felt similar to being overwhelmed with a wave of emotion. And in the moment, when I did think of him, I thought of someone who was willing to take time and listen and found me neat vs. my Dear Hubby who didn't notice if I was dead or alive, who wouldn't talk or listen, and who just was barely aware I even existed. (See how I filled in the blanks with "positives" for the OM and with "negatives" for my Dear Hubby?)

However, once the affair ended and Dear Hubby and I had some true heart-to-heart talks, the fog did begin to lift. It wasn't overnight and it took me a long time to believe it was real and permanent, but at the same time that I did heavy lifting I also took a step forward a little at a time so it didn't feel so risky. And what began to happen is that where I had once filled in "positives" for the OM, I began to feel like scales fell off my eyes. 

For example, if he was a grown man, how did he have time to sit and write and listen all day? He wasn't employed like a MAN who could provide, but like a kid--and if he wasn't working he as online playing games! 

Also, what kind of man pursues a woman after he finds out she's married? The moral response would be to only go for free, single people or if you just didn't know, stop when you do know!

Also, had he ever seen me mad? Seen me puking? Seen me screaming about something silly? No! He had no real way of knowing the True Me anymore than I knew the real him--we had made all that up!

There are a lot more examples, but hopefully you're beginning to see the idea: like scales falling from my eyes, I began to see THE TRUTH and that also meant I began to see what a lie it was! That was horrible. I felt like such an idiot! But at least it was the truth and reality, and that's something you can build on.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

@Affaircare

Thank you so much for responding. I didn't think any of the WS was going to. This really helped me a lot. I want to believe what my H is telling me. You've helped me to see maybe he's telling me the truth, Because a lot of what you said is the same things he's saying. It helps to hear it from someone that's been there. I hope to hear form more of the WS's on here...


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

I just finished reading River Rats posts…Much of it really made some things more clear to me.
One thing that stood out was a poster saying that the affair fog does not fully lift until it is exposed (or words to that effect) if it is rugswept the WS continues to hold the AP in a favourable light and goes back to the blame shifting as needed.

This rang true to me. I ended the A because I knew it was wrong and I loved my H - but there were still issues in the marriage and needs and communication lacking. I never was able to love my H fully while carrying this secret degradation against him.

25 years later when I confessed (after support and 2X4 encouragement) H and I went through counselling- and continue to do so-I felt the fog completely lift. It literally removed all emotions to do with the OM except for disgust and shame for what we had done. It was liberating. I no longer thought,cared, or even considered the OM, except to answer H's questions. 

So I think that it is entirely possible for a WS to wake up after being exposed or disclosing to the BS and see the OM/OW for what they really are. Nothing more than a symptom of their ego and selfishness. Compared to a loving marriage they are dust in the wind.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Devastated an lost said:


> I've heard a lot on here about how a WS will re-wright the history of there marriage when having an A. When my H speaks of OW now it's all about the drama & lies she told.
> 
> My question is, After the A is over & you're having to deal with the fall out, Does the feelings of romance & excitement fade & you start to see the OW/OM in a different light?
> 
> This is something I've been struggling with. I really want to know if my H's Trying to play this down to me, or if your perspective of the A changes with time. Any answers you may have would really help.


Yep. That's the fog clearing.

Remember how when you were dating, there was NOTHING anyone could say bad about your partner? They were perfect? That was the PEA-induced fog. The same fog cheaters experience with their luvvy wuvvy, who ALSO can do no wrong. Until the contact ends, the PEAs stop being produced in the body, the fog clears, and you see the person, warts and all.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Affaircare said:


> @Devastated an lost,
> 
> I'm coming out of retirement just for you--to answer your question as someone who is a recovered WS.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of really good stuff in this post. 

If I were to explain OM to you now.....he's balding, has a pot belly, he's pigeon toed, drinks too much, he abuses women, he's a master manipulator, he's scum, he's slime. He treats his wife like ****, he yells and cusses at his kids. The only good thing I can say about OM is that he IS funny. He has a very funny sense 
of humor and in the past was often the life of the party.

So why was I even attracted to him? I wasn't. I had never found my OM attractive before my incident. My incident was a one time thing and had I been single at the time, I would've never dated my OM.

What hooked me was exactly what AffairCare said. Attention. Someone was interested in me. My husband, who often ignored me and has never told me I'm pretty, paled in comparison to the compliments this man was raining on me. He wanted to talk to me, he told me I looked great, I smelled good, complimented my weight loss. I fed into this attention hook line and sinker because for the first time in a long time, I felt wanted. My femininity was validated. I didn't see OM as the bow legged, pot belly, balding douche that he is. I only saw the attention. That's ALL I cared about. Definitely a fog of good emotions that I hadn't felt in so long. I played into that attention and before I knew it, I was in deep. I felt like I led him on by playing into those smooth words. 

He pushed himself on me and kissed me. I didn't want that, I just wanted to continue hearing these good things about me. But I led him on by encouraging him to keep telling me things, right? So he pushed for more, I deflected, but I kept listening as he told me more good things about myself. I became addicted in those few minutes to those good feelings, those compliments, those good words about me that I chose to let them continue. 

I'm so ashamed to admit this, but OM could've been any man in that situation. I didn't care what he looked like, who he was, where he came from......for the first time in a long time, I mattered. 

I just wanted to sit there all night and have my ego stroked. I was 34, I'd had 3 kids. I wasn't some young hot chic anymore. My husband never complimented me, ignored me a lot of the time. I felt used up, old, ugly and worthless. Finally, someone was validating I still had it! My husband was a FOOL for not loving me more. He was a jerk for ignoring me and if he didn't want to compliment me, then I was going to soak it up from someone else and bask in all of those good feelings.

Unfortunately, OM then demanded a blow job. I said no. He demanded some more. Told me he wouldn't take me home until I did.

And that's when I made the worst mistake of my life and chose to blow my husbands best friend.

Through a lot of self loathing, I came to despise him. That he would prey on his best friends wife. That he would demand I do something for him. That he wouldn't just take me home. My husbands best friend! Whose wife I was also friends with. Our kids played together. What kind of man does this? 

Please keep in mind, I have just as much hatred towards myself. This is not all my OMs fault. I had a choice as well and made the wrong one.

But my point is......there is definitely a fog. There is definitely a "everything is wonderful" sense of things because all you are seeing are those good feelings.

Reflection at a later date brings forward all of the reasons they aren't good people. If they were, they wouldn't have done what they did. Which, in my opinion holds true for the WS as well. I don't think I'm a good person, and I an certainly not above OM. Obviously, I played my part in this as well. 

I would think truly remorseful spouses also analyze the bad things about themselves, to try to be better in the future and not make the same mistake again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LosingHim said:


> What hooked me was exactly what AffairCare said. Attention. Someone was interested in me. My husband, who often ignored me and has never told me I'm pretty, paled in comparison to the compliments this man was raining on me. He wanted to talk to me, he told me I looked great, I smelled good, complimented my weight loss. I fed into this attention hook line and sinker because for the first time in a long time, I felt wanted. My femininity was validated.
> 
> I'm so ashamed to admit this, but OM could've been any man in that situation. I didn't care what he looked like, who he was, where he came from......for the first time in a long time, I mattered.


I wish all the men on this forum would read this. For all the vitriol strewn at cheating women on this forum, I know with certainty that THIS is why women cheat. 

Men are GREAT at the GAME. Flirt, chase, compliment...it's all part of the game men learn in the 7th grade locker room. And they perfect it to a T, most of them. 

Unfortunately, many of these men think that's all it is. A game. To HOOK a woman. And once the ring's on her finger, so what? Flirt? What's that? Compliment? Why bother? She's giving me sex. She's cleaning my house. Leave me alone so I can play video games and hang out with my friends.

But women grow up EXPECTING flirting and complimenting. Just as tips to bag a chick is part of male's growing up, waiting for a prince charming to show up and sweep you off your feet is part of a female's growing up. 

And when she finds herself alone, ignored, taken for granted, taken advantage of, and expected to work, do the housework, raise the kids, take care of him, AND be ready 24/7 for sex...guess what happens when a NEW guy shows up and tells her all the stuff she first heard from her husband?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

turnera said:


> I wish all the men on this forum would read this. For all the vitriol strewn at cheating women on this forum, I know with certainty that THIS is why women cheat.
> 
> Men are GREAT at the GAME. Flirt, chase, compliment...it's all part of the game men learn in the 7th grade locker room. And they perfect it to a T, most of them.
> 
> ...


I have OFTEN brought this up to my husband. What happened to all of that romantic stuff, the wooing, the little gifts, the compliments.

His response? "I've already GOT you. I don't have to do that anymore"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

LosingHim said:


> I have OFTEN brought this up to my husband. What happened to all of that romantic stuff, the wooing, the little gifts, the compliments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thing is, there are 2 people in the marriage. Do you still do the same things for him that you used to? 
For some reason it always seems to fall on the man to do all of this. I've been doing it for well over a year now, guess what? She still seems more married to the kids and her job than to me. I feel more like a meal ticket and a handyman than a husband. 
I tell her she is beautiful, I bring her flowers unexpectedly, I put little notes in the lunched I pack for her. 
If only ONE person tries, it just builds resentment. 
I'm in better shape in every way than I was when I met my wife. I have had other women interested in me, I have been and will continue to be loyal to my wife. But if she can't be bothered to do some of the things she used to do, I can't see the marriage lasting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

I want to thank the WS's that came forward & told their stories for all to see. I admire you for that. I want you all to know I believe this will help a lot of people like me.

My H is remorseful. He feels tremendous guilt. He is doing all the right things in showing me how much I mean to him. He takes me on date night every week, Holds my hand, Open's doors for me, Leaves me little notes before he goes to work. 

Although I Love all these things & I responded by doing things like that for him as well. Deep down all I could think of was this is how it was for him with the OW. He never got to see her with no makeup, Sick or mad. So I formed this image in my mind of this perfect summer romance that I couldn't compete with.

Although my H is doing the right things with me, He wouldn't talk to me about her personally. He told me details from his perspective. He answered all my questions about facts. When I would throw the blame her way, He would say things like I was there too, It was just as much me as it was her.

I took this as him protecting her, Taking up for her, Because he saw her as perfect. Now if it ever comes up, which is not often. He will say things like I didn't even know her really, I just thought I did. I thought I Loved her, But it was the attention & her feeding my ego that I Loved. He says he hates her for pretending to be my friend & the added pain that caused me.

Oh, How I wanted to believe him, But I couldn't get that perfect image out of my head. I guess I needed to hear it from someone that had no reason to lie to me. Thank you all so much...


D & L


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

LosingHim said:


> I have OFTEN brought this up to my husband. What happened to all of that romantic stuff, the wooing, the little gifts, the compliments.
> 
> His response? "I've already GOT you. I don't have to do that anymore"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, few men have the balls to actually SAY that to you. 

It just proves that he NEVER LOVED YOU, and that he frankly doesn't care if you are happy, doesn't care about your feelings, LH. You're just a tool for this 14 year old grownup to use. A tool who willingly planted herself at his feet and never complained. What we've been telling you from the start. He used you, let you take care of him, probably cheated throughout, and kept you because you made his life comfortable and gave him wild crazy sex. Why NOT keep you? In his mind, you're stupid enough to stay for his scraps, so why change anything?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Devastated an lost said:


> Now if it ever comes up, which is not often. He will say things like I didn't even know her really, I just thought I did. I thought I Loved her, But it was the attention & her feeding my ego that I Loved. He says he hates her for pretending to be my friend & the added pain that caused me.


He's exactly right. That IS why he thought he loved her. Her feeding his ego filled him with PEA fog and so she looked amazing. Because she was meeting his needs, feeding his ego. So of course he thought he loved her, he was in the fog. It's a completely logical, physiological response. It's what kept the species going many thousands of years ago.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

I think they play it down.

Would you want him to say he had good times with her, missed her or she was really sweet?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

An affair is based on fantasy. Everything is good. There are no financial issues, children to deal with, zero problems as they are living in the moment.

Look at it this way. You meet up, make out, have hot forbidden fruit sex, leave shortly after. What's to hate at this time??????? 

Brief hookups or one nighters that are pleasure only. What's to hate about that? 

For the most part I think that's why there are mainly nothing but fond memories unless true remourse sets in a long time later and they connect the affair to all the destruction it caused. 

But for the most part I think the pleasure of it all is imprinted on the mind in most cases.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Devastated an lost said:


> I've heard a lot on here about how a WS will re-wright the history of there marriage when having an A. When my H speaks of OW now it's all about the drama & lies she told.
> 
> My question is, After the A is over & you're having to deal with the fall out, Does the feelings of romance & excitement fade & you start to see the OW/OM in a different light?
> 
> This is something I've been struggling with. I really want to know if my H's Trying to play this down to me, or if your perspective of the A changes with time. Any answers you may have would really help.


It is when the fantasy dies. When they realise that the pink milk from the magical unicorn of infidelity already tastes rancid when it comes out of the unicorn.

And you know the rainbows that the pink magical unicorn of infidelity farts out? Whilst they may look pretty, when you get close to them the only thing that you will notice is the horrible sulphurous stench.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

LosingHim said:


> I have OFTEN brought this up to my husband. What happened to all of that romantic stuff, the wooing, the little gifts, the compliments.
> 
> His response? "I've already GOT you. I don't have to do that anymore"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Then you'd husband was complicit to an extent in the affair?

I wonder if he and his BF would sit and chat about what pleased their wife, what turned them on?

It is possible that OM saw how your husband was treating you and realised that you would be vulnerable to his advances?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

It wasn't until I disclosed that I started looking at the OM in an unfavourable light. As I was looking at myself and wondering what kind of a person does what I did and then keeps it a secret- I also started questioning- what kind of a MAN does what OM did? 

I am not taking away or minimizing my part in the A at all. Its just that after being on TAM for awhile I started to think of him more like a POSOM than an OM. I started asking myself what kind of a man goes after a Married woman? Why would he want another mans wife? What sick pleasure did he get in pulling the wool over my H's eyes? Did he feel it was some kind of secret game to be won? I started to see him as predatorial, deceptive and corrupt. I saw the attention and flattery as planned and conniving like he saw my weakness and was baiting me. 

It is this new way of thinking about OM that lifted any fog that had remained over the years. I could not muster a positive feeling if I tried. It is liberating. 

Now H on the other hand can speak or see not a darn thing wrong with OW. Everything he hates with a passion about other people when possessed by her are "insignificant indiscretions, and moments of poor judgement." He has said that "she is a good person, he can see nothing wrong with her, she behaves like any other woman in her position, she is innocent of everything and I am just jealous. He feels sorry for her….

OK now I'm just pi$$ed


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've long suspected that when he's with his friends, he talks about her like she's a piece of meat. Or an object. Or a possession.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

thenub said:


> Thing is, there are 2 people in the marriage. Do you still do the same things for him that you used to?
> For some reason it always seems to fall on the man to do all of this. I've been doing it for well over a year now, guess what? She still seems more married to the kids and her job than to me. I feel more like a meal ticket and a handyman than a husband.
> I tell her she is beautiful, I bring her flowers unexpectedly, I put little notes in the lunched I pack for her.
> If only ONE person tries, it just builds resentment.
> ...


What stuff did she use to do that she stopped now?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emmi said:


> What stuff did she use to do that she stopped now?


Treating him like a husband rather than an ATM and a handyman? :scratchhead:


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Devastated

I noticed this thread and probably began to write five responses. I dumped them all as I can't find a way to get my point across. Hopefully this time will be it. Looking back I know my wife found him to be funny, witty, and nice. I know for a time she loved OM, then became indifferent AFTER d-day. Today she is still indifferent. It's difficult looking back and realizing that she loved him and not me.

Immediately after d-day as we talked some questions I had began to fit into place. Little moments where something was off and now it's explained. This hurts to type but they enjoyed they're time together during the affair. Like most, they also felt that relationship was special, more special then dithers marriage. You need to remember this was based on a fantasy, the relationship never having the daily stresses or struggles as a marriage. My wife doesn't know if OM leaves the toilet seat up or puts it down, they never lived together. Mostly when they met up it was to make out or have sex, marriage is much more then that. The house needs to be cleaned, errands run, meals cooked, children taken care of, laundry done, and a whole slew of other chores. Affairs don't have the challenges of marriage, affairs have deception, and that gets easier as you go along. 

Devastated I can't tell you not to worry about this. If you have accepted the affair and you can move forward, I think that's the best a betrayed spouse can do. There are many types of love, and during the affair I don't see that as real love. It's love based upon marital rewriting, lies, deception, sneaking around, and not based on reality. 

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

LosingHim said:


> There is a lot of really good stuff in this post.
> 
> If I were to explain OM to you now.....he's balding, has a pot belly, he's pigeon toed, drinks too much, he abuses women, he's a master manipulator, he's scum, he's slime. He treats his wife like ****, he yells and cusses at his kids. The only good thing I can say about OM is that he IS funny. He has a very funny sense
> of humor and in the past was often the life of the party.
> ...


I appreciate the honesty ladies. But it is hard for me to comprehend that all it takes is to talk to you for a short time, express some interest, tell you you're pretty, smart, funny, smell good, and look great. Pursue you and say your husband's a lucky guy and if it were me, I'd never stop loving and appreciating you. And then the BJs and other physical benefits start to happen. Is ATTENTION really that powerful to a lady in an attention-less or uncaring marriage?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate the honesty ladies. But it is hard for me to comprehend that all it takes is to talk to you for a short time, express some interest, tell you you're pretty, smart, funny, smell good, and look great. Pursue you and say your husband's a lucky guy and if it were me, I'd never stop loving and appreciating you. And then the BJs and other physical benefits start to happen. Is ATTENTION really that powerful to a lady in an attention-less or uncaring marriage?


First, you ignore the rest of the situation in which the ONE (not multiple, no OTHER 'physical benefits') _one-minute_ BJ occurred, the circumstances. For a woman, it's fairly conceivable how that all came to be. In fact, I found myself in a similar situation a long time ago (before marriage or boyfriend).

Second, yes, attention is often a woman's #1 NEED. It IS that powerful. Women are emotional and being basically ignored and used throughout her marriage - and cheated on - would create a huge need in a woman, who usually marries not for sex, but for emotion and attention.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

MAJDEATH said:


> I appreciate the honesty ladies. But it is hard for me to comprehend that all it takes is to talk to you for a short time, express some interest, tell you you're pretty, smart, funny, smell good, and look great. Pursue you and say your husband's a lucky guy and if it were me, I'd never stop loving and appreciating you. And then the BJs and other physical benefits start to happen. Is ATTENTION really that powerful to a lady in an attention-less or uncaring marriage?


I would say it's not always that powerful. I'm not an ugly woman, I've received attention from men many times during my marriage. Not all out attention like this night, but I've had several men stop me at the gas station or something like that pay me compliments.

It's not like I left the gas stations with these men. 

Let me preface this by saying that I am in NO WAY trying to say that what I did is excusable, justified or ok. It all comes down to it being MY fault, but I will explain in very frank terms why I did what I did. I am also not bashing my husband, but merely being very honest about how I felt during our marriage.

My H is 5.5 years younger than me. He was 21 when we met, I was 27 with 2 kids. I had just gotten out of a relationship where my husband abused me and had told me when I left that I had 2 kids, was divorced an no one would want me. I was in THE best shape of my life, I was pretty damn hot, but my husband told me I was fat (I was muscular and a size 0, I had a legitimate 6 pack, I was nowhere near fat - I looked like a fitness model in all senses of the word). I had a lot of insecurities due to my ex husbands abuse, and even though my current husband was interested in me, I was very insecure and couldn't see WHY. He was 21, why would he been interested in some 27 year old divorcee with 2 kids when he could have some young hot chic with no baggage?

Fast forward to 3 months into our relationship, we were playing a stupid game with our friends and I found out my husband had had a 3some. I assumed this was a 2 girl 3some and freaked out. I burst into tears and ran into my room. He asked what was wrong. I already felt like I wouldn't be good enough for him, how could I compare to him sleeping with 2 women which was every mans fantasy? He did tell me this was a 2 guy 3some with his best friend and a girl they had both messed around with, It was during high school. But my self esteem still took a hit because I knew I couldn't fill those shoes of excitement that he had had in the past.

At this point, I started hearing from friends that my H was not over his ex girlfriend. He had told me himself she had broken his heart. I heard a story of him and some friends sitting around one night and these other friends asked him if she showed up would he leave with her. His answer was yes. I confronted him about it. He told me he didn't hate her, but had never gotten answers about why she left the way she did and he would talk to her for closure purposes. Another hit to my self esteem. They had been broken up 2-3 years at this point and everyone was telling me he still loved her. He assured me he didn't, but the thought was still there. Several of them also told me he liked black girls with big butts. (his ex girlfriend is mixed )I'm white and have a small butt. More questioning of why he would be with me. 

I get pregnant. When I was 5 months pregnant with our daughter, I picked up his phone to look for a text about a time we were going to a friends house (my H was asleep). I found texts from the previous night of him texting a girl he used to screw around with asking her to send him pictures of her boobs. While I was upstairs sleeping, pregnant with his child. Another hit to the self esteem.

By this point I had discovered his obsessive porn usage and the lying and hiding about that had been going on for roughly a year. The fact that he couldn't give up the porn and continued to lie about it and hide it was another hit to my self esteem. I felt like I wasn't enough sexually to keep him happy.

During this time I had discovered he had done a google search for his ex girlfriend. She called him one night while we were laying in bed together. I heard a womans voice when he said hello and he immediately hung up. He told me the next day it was her and he found out it was her because he called her back the next day. More damage to the self esteem and now questions as to why he was talking to her but wouldn't talk to her in front of me. A few weeks later, discovery that they had also been texting. I begged him to stop talking to her due to me not being comfortable with how I had heard he felt about her. I tried to reach out to her and become friendly with her so maybe I could understand why they would want to be friends. I was met with cold responses from her. 

The contact with her has been constant over 10 years, no matter how many times I have begged him to stop. It would stop for a few months and then I would find facebook messages, text messages, phone calls, he started following her on social media, etc. My insecurities with her are HORRIBLE. He would never give up his contact with her no matter how many times I begged, pleaded, cried....even punched a whole in a door about it one time.

He has constantly talked about her family in such high regard, but rarely says anything good about my family. Still refers to her mom as his second mom, to this day texts her mom and tells her he loves her. Her mom came to the hospital when we had our daughter and talked about the ex gf the whole time she was there. Her mom came to our wedding and I didn't even know he had invited her. He talked to his ex gf the morning of our freaking wedding! He stops over and talks to her mom every now and again, occasionally she cuts his hair. More hits to self esteem, wondering about why he's even with me when he obviously loves her family so much.

Over the years, my husband has been through several jobs. Sometimes making as little as $7/hour. There was no contribution to paying bills until we were together for a year and a half, but had been living together for over a year. At one point, I lost my house in foreclosure because I couldn't support my 3 kids, him and myself on $12/hour. He never offered to help. When I received the letter from Wells Fargo that my house was going to sheriffs sale, I laid on my bed and cried harder than I ever have in my life. He didn't comfort me, or say "what can we do?" He looked at me and walked outside to mow the lawn and let me cry by myself.

He started abusing money. We were almost dead broke and he went out and bought a motorcycle. (This was before our money was combined), he wouldn't pay his bills on time because he was paying for the motorcycle. After we combined our money, he went out and bought a 96 Corvette. Never asked me if it was ok. He handled the money at the time, but my income was part of what was paying for that Corvette and he never even ran it by me. Then he would yell at me for spending too much on groceries! I was feeding a family of 5 for $75/week and getting yelled at because we didn't have money because he had to pay for a freaking Corvette. We sold the Corvette eventually and I took over the bills because I discovered our electric was about to get shut off, gas was going to get shut off, the house payment was 2 months behind, etc. He refused to stay on the budget I planned and swipes his debit card like it's a fountain of money and then gets angry at me when there isn't money for something he wants to do. This past summer, he was spending $500/month on golf. When I would bring it up he would accuse me of treating him like a child where money was concerned or say he was a prisoner of the money he worked hard to make. These things made me feel like I didn't have a partner in my marriage.

He rarely ever wanted to do anything with ME. He would act annoyed when I would bring up spending time with him. He would rather spend time with the guys, play softball, go on guys weekends, go out with the guys, I was always left at home. I can't recall how many times I would bring up I wanted to spend time with him and he would get mad. I can't recall how many times I said to him "I've never met someone who gets angry because someone wants to spend time with them". This led me to feel like I wasn't fun to be around and honestly, that he didn't even like to be around me.

He rarely went with us for family things, hiking, fishing, trick or treat. He even left my daughters birthday party one year to go play softball, which ended with her in tears because she said "J always cuts out on family stuff". She was only 5 or 6 years old! 

He NEVER complimented me. My husband has never called me beautiful, or honestly, even pretty. I asked him one time if he thought I was beautiful on our wedding day. His response was "you looked cute, but your dress was too low cut". 

I've gone on for quite some time now, but I think you can get the gist of my loneliness, my insecurities. Imagine what these things do to your mind over 7 years. Yeah, I totally should have left long before I did what I did. But I didn't. Couple all of these things with being drunk, I was mad at him that night and I was somewhat cornered by OM......I fed into ALL of the bull**** and took the plunge. My mind was not healthy at all. It wasn't just getting a little attention, it was the culmination of all the bad things I had felt for a long time suddenly just disappearing in that moment and giving in to actually feeling good for the first time in a long time.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

I have heard of so-called "pick-up artists" use targeted questions to determine which ladies might be susceptible to increased interest. It also helps them to not waste their time on non-starters. Based on what you described leading up to that night, you would have pegged the meter/off the chart as a vulnerable target. The PUAs also use the opening questions to determine what "tanks" to fill to move you in the direction they want to go.
You also ended up in a somewhat compromised position in his car. But of course you could have gotten out and found another way home. I had that same discussion with my fWW when she described always being fed too much alcohol then given a ride home by the OM. He always paid for drinks and helped with driving so she wouldn't risk a DUI. But what he really did was make her dependent on him and the only thing he helped with was helping himself into her pants and our house. Sometimes playing the victim card is a tough sell.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

There's no victim card in my case. I did what I did, regardless of the rest of the circumstances of my life. I ALWAYS had a choice to not do what I did. My point in detailing all of that out is, I was/am pretty much a mess of low self esteem, boundary issues, hurt, neglect, confusion, insecurity, etc. In BEING that mess of who I am, my convoluted mind didn't see ANYTHING but attention in that moment. My sick brain rationalized that I was so desperately in need of this attention that I soaked it up like a sponge until it got out of control. MY issues were what led to me being stupid enough to do what I did. It's not his FAULT that I cheated by any means, and that's not what I was trying to imply. The CIRCUMSTANCES of my marriage is what lended a hand in my need to feed into the attention. Does that make sense?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

I can only speak from my own experiences because I think everyone is different. But whenever I was involved with a OW those "fog" type feelings start to dissipate as soon as they started talking about making a future together. At this point I would almost always completely check out. By saying they wanted us to be together they made it too real. Nobody wants to blow up their life for something that they viewed as a NSA relationship.

So OP, If your husband says that he feels nothing but disdain for the OW, he could very well be telling you the truth.


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## Homer j (Jan 6, 2016)

I agree completely with affaircare. I too am a WS and she nailed it. Before my A was exposed my fog was lifting that my OW wasn't who I wanted to be with long term.


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## Devastated an lost (Oct 29, 2014)

Thanks @ReformedHubby & @Homer j


It's good to hear a mans point of view. I also thank the women that responded, But my WH didn't have any of their issues. We had a great marriage. We Loved doing all the same things, Enjoyed each others company, We were the best of friends, I complimented him & told him how much I loved him every day. Did all he house & yard work, So when he came home he could relax, Dinner was always hot & ready I even fixed his drink & sat it by his recliner. I am also a very sexual person. So we didn't have any problems there.

I guess that's what makes it so hard for me to understand. I'm an attractive women I had lots of offers, But never considered it. I took pride in the fact that we had only been with each other. When I ask him what do I need to change to make you happier at home. He said I didn't need to change a thing. He couldn't ask for a better wife & there was nothing missing in our marriage. He said he wasn't looking for anything. They started talking as friends & it just happened. So naturally I thought if I'm doing everything right, Then it must me in general.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

MAJDEATH said:


> Sometimes playing the victim card is a tough sell.


She's not playing the victim. She's always fully admitted here what she's done. I'm the one who said to give her some slack, she's not your normal floozy or cheater.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

Devastated an lost said:


> Thanks @ReformedHubby & @Homer j
> 
> 
> It's good to hear a mans point of view. I also thank the women that responded, But my WH didn't have any of their issues. We had a great marriage. We Loved doing all the same things, Enjoyed each others company, We were the best of friends, I complimented him & told him how much I loved him every day. Did all he house & yard work, So when he came home he could relax, Dinner was always hot & ready I even fixed his drink & sat it by his recliner. I am also a very sexual person. So we didn't have any problems there.
> ...


I know the feeling, but one of the most important things I've learnt is that what he did had nothing to do with me, also it had nothing to do with her. He was in a bad place and she happened to be there and make herself available to him. He was vulnerable and she was a more than willing participant. I often suspect her main motivation in all this was to feel superior over me, the wife. She was not better in any way. 

Our husbands choose us for a reason, the fog is so powerful that they loose sight of that, when my husband was away I felt threatened because of his behaviour until I looked the OW up on Facebook, then most my worries went away. In real life she and outside of the fog she had nothing on me, personality or looks. Here's a quote I really like that my husband completely agrees with:

De Burca, 36 and living in Galway, Ireland, says his research has made him thoroughly ashamed of his sex. ''Men who cheat come across as though they lead glamorous, colourful lives. They all think they are James Bond. Instead, they are romancing women who are generally diluted, poor substitutes for the wives they have at home. The reality is that their lives are seedy. Full of pitiful skulduggery.’


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

Emmi said:


> I know the feeling, but one of the most important things I've learnt is that what he did had nothing to do with me, also it had nothing to do with her. He was in a bad place and she happened to be there and make herself available to him. He was vulnerable and she was a more than willing participant. *I often suspect her main motivation in all this was to feel superior over me, the wife. She was not better in any way. *
> 
> Our husbands choose us for a reason, the fog is so powerful that they loose sight of that, when my husband was away I felt threatened because of his behaviour until I looked the OW up on Facebook, then most my worries went away. In real life she and outside of the fog she had nothing on me, personality or looks. Here's a quote I really like that my husband completely agrees with:
> 
> De Burca, 36 and living in Galway, Ireland, says his research has made him thoroughly ashamed of his sex. ''Men who cheat come across as though they lead glamorous, colourful lives. They all think they are James Bond. Instead, they are romancing women who are generally diluted, poor substitutes for the wives they have at home. The reality is that their lives are seedy. Full of pitiful skulduggery.’


I am convinced this is true of my xh's OW. They would fight, break up, she would send him to spend the day at her brother's house many times to get him out of her hair . . . she wanted financial security and she wanted to WIN, to take him away from me. She is on welfare and I work at a university and teach at the college level. Her first h cheated on her, and she married two more times, tried to trap another husband but he saw through it and only agreed to child support . . . but yes, when I would raise issues with h like, why did her baby daddy who wouldn't marry her insist on a paternity test and drag that out for two years, he would shrug his shoulders and say, it's just legal procedure in a child support case. It wasn't. The guy wanted proof he was the kid's father. 

She's a drunk, and she's twelve years mentally and emotionally, and she is an adolescent drama queen. He has told me many times how exhausting and tiring that was for him, but after his last bout with mortality, he went back to her teen-aged self. 

So in my case, the affair fog with him has been lifting for a long long time, but he like a dog keeps going back to the vomit because he made promises and she's making him accountable for them. 

I am sure he will cheat on her if he lives long enough. While I always suspected he was bi polar, I had not seen the depth of his NPD and his need to be the center of attention all the time. 

But she has won; he divorced me and married her before our divorce was final, so she thinks she's married, and I suspect it will only be a matter of time before they split or he cheats or both. My h definitely thinks he is James Bond, a knight in shining armor, riding his white stallion to the rescue. His affair fog starting lifting ages ago, but despite that, it is more about HIM and his cowardice and his inability to face the hard work of reconciliation with me or leaving her . . . he just sort of "defaulted" into the relationship with her long term, and that's where he'll stay until he repeats the pattern.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

TeddieG said:


> I am convinced this is true of my xh's OW. They would fight, break up, she would send him to spend the day at her brother's house many times to get him out of her hair . . . she wanted financial security and she wanted to WIN, to take him away from me. She is on welfare and I work at a university and teach at the college level. Her first h cheated on her, and she married two more times, tried to trap another husband but he saw through it and only agreed to child support . . . but yes, when I would raise issues with h like, why did her baby daddy who wouldn't marry her insist on a paternity test and drag that out for two years, he would shrug his shoulders and say, it's just legal procedure in a child support case. It wasn't. The guy wanted proof he was the kid's father.
> 
> She's a drunk, and she's twelve years mentally and emotionally, and she is an adolescent drama queen. He has told me many times how exhausting and tiring that was for him, but after his last bout with mortality, he went back to her teen-aged self.
> 
> ...


What a tool!


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