# "strange" men?



## LVF (May 5, 2013)

Hi,

I am currently filling for divorce and have been thinking about my love life in general. I am mid-twenties so I believe I still have a lot to learn and live. I am fit, take care of myself, etc. etc. etc.

In my life I have dated 3 men (including my soon to be ex-husband). They were totally different persons, yet they had one thing, and only one thing, in common: didn't deal very well with sexuality. By order:

*1st *- very insecure, jealous, couldn't perform and refuse to orgasm if I was watching. Yet, very descriptive by text msg. 

*2nd* - very insecure but used to hide it first behind jokes, later with violence. Couldn't care less about women's needs, his touch would hurt, and couldn't orgasm if I was looking at his face (I had to look somewhere else). 

*3rd *- no insecurities, respecful. Just emotionally inapt and indifferent, yet he pushed to get married. Would ignore my attempts to talk and say what I liked in bed (said sex was to be done, not to be talked about). I felt he couldnt be bothered to spend time exploring sex. We had it an average of 2x month and would substitute preliminares with lubricant... 

Now, I would like to have the opinion of both men and women on this. Is this lack of adventure and openess common among men? 


Am I following some pattern here? They had totally different personalities and backgrounds. Maybe it is something wrong with me? 

I would really like to avoid past mistakes and would appreciate your input. Thanks!


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## barbados (Aug 30, 2012)

LVF said:


> Hi,
> 
> Now, I would like to have the opinion of both men and women on this. Is this lack of adventure and openess common among men?


No, I don't believe this is common among men. You unfortunately just happened to pick 3 guys with issues sexually. 

If you read a lot of threads in the SIM section here, you will see that overwhelmingly the men are practically begging to find partners who would be open and adventurous sexually.

My wife & I have never had lack of either openness or being adventurous. When we were your age we were very adventurous IMO. 

Also, I have no idea what the not being able to orgasm with you looking at them is about ? Never heard that issue before.

You are still very young and there are many, many men out there who don't have these issues.


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## Mostlycontent (Apr 16, 2014)

Agree with Barbados here. I've never heard of men suffering from some of the issues you described. No offense, but it appears you have picked some "outliers" for mates.

Perhaps subconsciously you are attracted to men with these kinds of issues. I'm not really sure but it does seem that you have chosen these types on purpose. Perhaps it would be prudent to purposely seek out different kinds of men for your next relationship.


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

Yes, I read other posts. That is why I thought this was too much coincidence and "bad luck". 

If I'm not doing anything wrong and if I'm not following some pattern of behaviour here, I wish there were some outer signs that would point to this sexual behaviour among certain men. None of them seemed seemed shy. If anything, I was more reserved in public than any of them. I really have no clue.


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

Mostlycontent, I do admit that I dated them because of they apparent good humour and/or brains and then worked myself to like them physically. But then, I should be the one avoiding adventure, no?

What is strange to me, is that they were no a "type". They had different personalities, social, economic, educational, backgrounds. The only thing in common is that all the 3 relationships (for different reasons) where highly dependent on internet and cell phones. I feel I relied too much on what they said and not had enough time to observe their actions.

Concerning the issues: yup. He said he could relax/focus/whatever when he was feeling observed. What can I say.......


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

You maybe need to get better at paying attention to warning flags that someone isn't your cup of tea. Other than that, there's no commonality that I can see in all three.

C


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Where did your meet your past partners? Where are you searching for future ones?


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## cursed_5age (Jun 1, 2014)

I feel horrible for you LVF. No, it's not typical. Most men would be begging for your "attitude" when it came the physical aspect of your relationship. The only advice I can think of is to broach these type of subjects verbally before you commit to them physically and try to judge your prospective partner's attitude toward the kind of things your like. That way you won't be taken by surprise and any man who wants to be involved with you will have an understanding of what you like so he won't feel the pressure to preform in ways he may not be used to or comfortable with.
For example, if a man never had an orgasm with a woman watching, then for him, you being so curious could be off putting then he will fail in the bedroom. If that happens his "masculinity" if you will, is in question and he may become moody, depressed, or even aggressive about it. I wish you the best of luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LVF said:


> I am currently filling for divorce and have been thinking about my love life in general. I am mid-twenties so I believe I still have a lot to learn and live. I am fit, take care of myself, etc. etc. etc.


These sort of issues with men are not as uncommon as some seem to think.

Some things to ponder… married men withhold sex and even choose to make the marriage sexless at about the same rate as women do. A good book on the topic is: _Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It _ by Bob Berkowitz and Susan Yager-Berkowitz 

There are many threads here on TAM written by women whose husbands are the ones who have issues with sex.


LVF said:


> In my life I have dated 3 men (including my soon to be ex-husband). They were totally different persons, yet they had one thing, and only one thing, in common: didn't deal very well with sexuality. By order:


Your guy picker is broken and you need to find out why. Some individual counseling might be a good idea. (Don’t feel bad about this.. mine’s broken too. But we won’t explore that on this thread ‘cause thi is your thread.)


LVF said:


> *1st *- very insecure, jealous, couldn't perform and refuse to orgasm if I was watching. Yet, very descriptive by text msg.


Many more men than people seem to realize have sexual inhibitions. 

Did this guy have something some of disorder that made it hard for him to relate to people in person? Was he abused as a child… either sexually or did was he made to feel embarrassed about his sexuality as a child?


LVF said:


> *2nd* - very insecure but used to hide it first behind jokes, later with violence. Couldn't care less about women's needs, his touch would hurt, and couldn't orgasm if I was looking at his face (I had to look somewhere else).


Ok so now two of these guys had a problem with you looking at them when they orgasmed. Same questions about this guy. 

It sounds like guy #1 was insecure and showed it. Guy #2 was insecure and used bravado as a mask. 



LVF said:


> *3rd *- no insecurities, respecful. Just emotionally inapt and indifferent, yet he pushed to get married. Would ignore my attempts to talk and say what I liked in bed (said sex was to be done, not to be talked about). I felt he couldnt be bothered to spend time exploring sex. We had it an average of 2x month and would substitute preliminares with lubricant...


Here we have another insecure, emotionally inept guy who had issues with sex and could not be bothered to meet your needs.

Most insecure people do this. They are focused on themselves. This is why they cannot give to other people. When a person’s energies are turned inward, worrying about how everyone else sees them, then they cannot see the other person.

I would disagree that this guy did not have serious insecurities. Pushing you to marry is done base don being insecure. I’m sure that if you talked more about him there is more insecurity there. 


LVF said:


> Now, I would like to have the opinion of both men and women on this. Is this lack of adventure and openess common among men?


It’s not uncommon. I’ve dated a lot of guys and have run into this some of the time. There were times when a dating situation did not progress to sexual because I could tell that the guy was like the ones you have dated… they would make comments about sex that made this clear. 

When I was married to my son’s father, we had a good sex life until he decided that we would never again have a sex life. But one thing that bothered me was that he refused to talk about sex, what we both liked, thing to try, etc. After a few years he got bored it our sex life… well duh.. If you don’t keep engaged in your sex life it’s going to get boring. It was he, not me who was the issues.


LVF said:


> Am I following some pattern here? They had totally different personalities and backgrounds. Maybe it is something wrong with me?


What constitutes a person’s personality? Is it just the very exterior or is it the deep, underlying as well? I would say that the underlying part of their personality is the majority of their personality. Their outward shyness or bravado is only the mask.

An analogy.. if you go to a housing development you can find 3 houses with the same floor plan and features. Now the landscaping might be different, the paint, carpet and counter tops might be different colors but it’s still the same floor plan. You can easily change the landscaping, pain, carpet and counter tops. The floor plan cannot be easily changed. You bought the same floor plan 3 times.



LVF said:


> I would really like to avoid past mistakes and would appreciate your input. Thanks!


What was your father, or other significant adult male, like when you were growing up?

One thing that you can do is write down a list of the things that about these guys that were a problem.

Then look back at when you first dated them, before the sex stated. What in their early behavior were red flags that you ignored? You now know that these are red flags that cannot be ignored. Keep that list. Evaluate every guy you date against it. Remember that dating is about finding out about the person.

Another question for you to look at is why do you choose to stay with a man once you find out that there is a serious issue.

For example #3 was inept and indifferent to you. Instead of him giving you sexual pleasure (foreplay) he would just use lubricant. Why did you let this go on? You let him do this. All you had to do is to tell him that you would not engage in sex in which your pleasure was not part of the equation. This points to you having very weak boundaries. Something else for you to explore.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

You need to weed them out better...I would tell anyone now to def date for at least 3-4 years before ever getting married. Maybe even 5 years. 

But at the same time, you'll know when the right person comes around. It's simply like magic. Hard to explain but most people know what I mean. 

BTW, guys deal with same crap...women who are Bat Sh!t Crazy. That's emotional abuse at its finest.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

How long did you date each of these guys?

How long did you date each of them before the relationship turned sexual?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

jerry123 said:


> You need to weed them out better...I would tell anyone now to def date for at least 3-4 years before ever getting married. Maybe even 5 years.
> 
> But at the same time, you'll know when the right person comes around. It's simply like magic. Hard to explain but most people know what I mean.
> 
> ...


Yep you are right..... there is no shortage of Bat Sh!t crazy men and women. The trick is weeding them out before getting to deep in with them. 

Your comment about dating for a long time is so important. A lot of people just jump into relationships and then once in them will do anything and put up with anything to keep the relationship together.

I think that they forget that the purpose of dating is to find out who the person really is and if they are someone who is a keeper.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

LVF said:


> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Male response. And I can only answer for myself. However I should also qualify my answer with my current age, 53. I was likely less secure when I was younger, but a simple answer to the bold question. No


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

> There were times when a dating situation did not progress to sexual because I could tell that the guy was like the ones you have dated… they would make comments about sex that made this clear.


I talked with all the 3 of them for several months before dating. N. 1 couldn't really perform much and I don't remember many details...N.2, I think we dated a few weeks before progressing to sexual. N. 3 was on first date after knowing him and chatting for 6 months. We talked about those issues, he said one thing and the reality turned out quite the opposite regarding sex, family, relationship, emotions, everything. 

I dated 1 and 2 for 2 years each. I was too young and I admit I didn't know how to defend my interests. N. 3 total of 3 years.

As for the lubricant-instead-of-preliminaries issue, it was after getting married. The biggest sexual changes started from the 1st night after getting married. 

I still don't see any red flag that could point to such behaviour BEFORE progressing to sexual. Even if asked, some of them told something it turned out not to be true. At this point, I believe more in action than in what they say.

As for being shy... as I said, I was even more reserved then them in public, so I don't know if that would be an appropriate red flag.


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Yep you are right..... there is no shortage of Bat Sh!t crazy men and women. The trick is weeding them out before getting to deep in with them.
> 
> Your comment about dating for a long time is so important. A lot of people just jump into relationships and then once in them will do anything and put up with anything to keep the relationship together.
> 
> I think that they forget that the purpose of dating is to find out who the person really is and if they are someone who is a keeper.



Agree 100%.
That was the first and BIGGEST LESSON I learned so far. And I thought only women would wait until marriage to change...silly me.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LVF said:


> I talked with all the 3 of them for several months before dating. N. 1 couldn't really perform much and I don't remember many details...N.2, I think we dated a few weeks before progressing to sexual.


What do you mean that “N. 1 couldn't really perform much”? Please explain.


LVF said:


> N. 3 was on first date after knowing him and chatting for 6 months. We talked about those issues, he said one thing and the reality turned out quite the opposite regarding sex, family, relationship, emotions, everything.


When you say knowing him and chatting for 6 months, does this mean that you knew him via some internet site for 6 months before you actually went out with him in person?


LVF said:


> I dated 1 and 2 for 2 years each. I was too young and I admit I didn't know how to defend my interests. N. 3 total of 3 years.


So with all you saw serious issues pretty quick in the relationship but you stayed in each for about 2-3 years?


LVF said:


> As for the lubricant-instead-of-preliminaries issue, it was after getting married. The biggest sexual changes started from the 1st night after getting married.


This is not as unusual as you might think. People have two different mind sets… one about how they are as a boyfriend/girlfriend. The other is their model for marriage. As soon as he became a husband, he behaved in the manner that he thinks husbands behave. This is why, living together before marriage usually does not tell you much about what a person will be like after marriage.
I dated my son’s father for 5 years before we married. He never laid a hand on me. As soon as we were married I started to see a new side of him. He started to become physically violent.. very minor things at first of course.


LVF said:


> I still don't see any red flag that could point to such behaviour BEFORE progressing to sexual. Even if asked, some of them told something it turned out not to be true. At this point, I believe more in action than in what they say.


Yep, always believe action before you believe words. Words are often used as a smoke screen.
So before married #3 he had never been physically rough with you? He always met all of your needs sexually? He was never selfish sexually? He was always willing to talk to you about sex and explore sexually with you?


LVF said:


> As for being shy... as I said, I was even more reserved then them in public, so I don't know if that would be an appropriate red flag.


Think back a lot harder.


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## LVF (May 5, 2013)

> EleGirl said:
> 
> 
> > What do you mean that “N. 1 couldn't really perform much”? Please explain.
> ...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

LVF said:


> Couldn't have intercourse because it was "too tight". N.2 had similar issues both in the beginning and during the relationship. I would take a couple of drink and try to relax, but I wouldn't feel anything due to lack of stimulation or enough time to relax. I know I CAN feel good when I do it myself. Just takes time for someone else to learn how I like it.


Hm… sounds like you were sort of forcing yourself in a relationship when you were not really into the guy. 


LVF said:


> Yes.


It’s almost impossible to really know a person that you have only chatted with (and maybe phone calls too) or months. People put up beautiful facades on line. They create complete different personalities from their real life personalities. You obviously did not know him at all really after months of chatting with him.

The way to do online dating it to meet them online and but move it into real life very quickly. That why you see the real person and have a chance to know if they are compatible. Thus not spending a lot of time online with someone who is building that façade. 


LVF said:


> Yes. That is a problem on my side. I have a hard time falling in love for people. So usually I start feeling attracted to their intelligence and apparent values, and then learn to like they phisically. Since it is so difficult for me to fall for someone, once I am in a relationship I tend to insist a lot.


This sounds like more of you trying to force yourself to stay in a relationship. It’s like you meet a guy and then decide that you have to be with this guy just because. 


LVF said:


> I used to think that I needed to work hard for relationships to work, and that I would be lazy and a quitter to give up without trying hard enough.
> Yes, people should work hard on relationships. This does not mean that they should work hard to even have attraction from the very start. You have apparently never gone out with a man who you are really attracted to.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

As stated, this is not a "male" thing its a "people" thing. You just got with three people with issues. Having been through this, I'm thinking you're radar is going to be a lot better going forward and you will make better choices. I know after getting out of 10 yrs of bad marriage mine is fine tuned. Best of luck.


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## EnjoliWoman (Jul 2, 2012)

If someone intrigues you, you really need to start dating them in person fairly quickly. I've found when you don't, a lot of time is wasted because suddenly you meet in person and you thought there was all of this chemistry and then it's a let down. Or they don't look like their photos or they have a whiny voice you can't get past, etc.

Are you afraid your sex drive is too strong to say no and you'll move to quickly into a sexual relationship before you're sure? If so, keep the meetings public and have a friend text you or phone/text a friend when the date is over or agree to meet a friend at a certain time AFTER the date so that you have a prior engagement the requires you to leave.

It's important to give as a lover but it's also important to receive. I find it much more troubling that you didn't worry about your needs because you were afraid to loose them - lose what? A selfish, lousy lover? It seems that you don't have a strong sense of self yet, or at least not back then - perhaps you have developed that. 

If you feel you are in a better place now and ready for that kind of relationship then you'll have to meet a lot of people in person. I also read once that you should keep a rolling group of 3 people at a time. This serves a couple purposes, and might be useful for someone like yourself. First off, if you are dating multiple people, you aren't obsessing over any one of them because your thoughts are on all three of them and keep some perspective. Give each one at least 3 dates before you decide whether or not to continue to date them - this gives you a chance for the initial jitters and first impression to give way to the real person inside allowing you to better judge whether you want to keep seeing them. Some may surprise you. This 3 guys at a time rule also keeps you from getting too physical too soon because you aren't dating one guy until you see a deal-breaker and then have to start the search again. Once you really start to like one so much that you don't want to see any other guys you can let those wither away.


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