# Lessons as an OM #3 The mind and motives of the OM



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

OK so there is a preditor out there stalking your sweet and pure wife. 
He haunts the local meat-market bar and dance club and he wear sunglasses inside the bar and has gold chains around his neck and his shiny disco shirt is unbuttoned showing his chiseled pecks under his wooly chest hair and he approaches your wife on her one night out to get away from the kids and uses a scripted pick-up line and offers to buy her some exotic drink and ushers her to dance floor to show her his disco moves right????

No. Just no. Don't we all wish it were that easy. 

The reality is a lot more insidious and painful. 

The OM is more likely to be someone in your social circle. Perhaps even someone you called a friend. It may even be a relative. Read these forums enough and I guarantee you you will read about someone's wife screwing their brother or best friend. 

There's even a case here in CWI where the gal screwed her father in law (EEEWWWW!!!) 

And affairs in the work place and on the co-ed softball team or running club or community group like the Lions or various PTA groups through the school or the kid's sports teams are universal. 

So what makes a man hook up with another man's wife? Again it's combination of nature (we're all just slightly more evolved animals than wolves in the woods) relationship circumstances, his desirability as a man and a lover, his character and boundaries and how sexually assertive/receptive the WW is. 

In my case as I said in my intro, I was not unusually handsome or charming or rich or suave? I was not a Playa' or pick up artist. 

What I was was flirtatious, sex-positive and probably gave off some kind of vibe that I was DTF for discreet NSA sex. And not only was I DTF but that I would still treat women with dignity and respect and would work to please them and respect them EVEN IF they were cheating on their Hs. 

Basically what it boiled down to is I did not have the personal boundaries that told me NOT to hook up with married women and I was game and was willing to make it good for them and be discrete about it. 

Instead of promising that I would call the next day and that I would be a good BF or good husband/father and would be with them. I promised the opposite and promised that I would not interfer in their lives and would not try to be their BF and would not try to interject myself into their lives or meet their friends or family etc. I was their side piece because I offered myself up to be their side piece (I didn't use those words of course, but that's basically what it was)

I offered them fun, excitement, attention and orgasms without any strings or commitments on their end. They could come and go as they pleased. 

If their H was at work too much that week and they felt neglected - Come you Youngshirt's house for a couple orgasms and some cuddles. 

Bad day at work and coworkers pissing you off? Come to Youngshirts house and he'll listen to your gripes while he gives you a footrub and will only want a footjob in return. 

Ovulation is kicking in and you're hornier than a billy goat and your H can't get it up? Youngshirt will pin your ankles behind your head and pile-drive you and fill you up to overflow. 

Tired and frustrated and bored with raising 3 screaming kids and diapers and dishes piling up in the sink and miss your ****ty days of hooking up at the college-town meat-market?? Put on your lacey underwear, stockings and garter belt under your sweats and go to Youngshirt's house and be that dirty, nasty porno star that you can't be at home. 

What should be the scariest thing here is that there wasn't anything special or studly about me. In fact I struggled and had a hard time with single women. Single women wanted things from me that I couldn't provide like being stable and mature and financially well off and most importantly monogamous. 

WWs could be their inner ***** with me and I was ok with it. 

But here's the thing you need to keep in mind as a husband...…… there are billions of me in the world. 

Now some of these guys are going to come on here and say they WOULD NEVER get with a married women. Good on them.

But for every one of those guys, there are probably thousands and thousands who would. 

You see for a guy that just wants to get some tail, a married woman is a lot easier and much less hoops and hurdles than a single woman. 

Yes, I said it, married women are EASIER. They are easier and they ask much less of a man. All they ask for is attention, acceptance of their sexuality, your discretion and privacy and that you can actually get it up and get them off and then keep your mouth shut about it. 

Now they will tell their girlfriends of course but they demand your discretion.

(side note: They will tell their GFs and then it's just a matter of time before their GF is scratching at your door. BTDT, true story)

That guy may be your married neighbor with all the kids (he probably hasn't gotten any since the last kid was conceived) It may be her boss (rank has it's priveledges and women love the boss) It may be her trainer at the gym (he's making her sexy and beautiful again so she attaches him to her new horny hormones) and unfortunately it may even be your best friend or one of your close relatives (people form attachments and feelings with people they are around)

And as I mentioned in the other post, she may be getting hooked up with friends of her friends or even some of her close relatives that don't like you. 

Unless she is some kind of groupie or actually working to hook up with a traveling rock star or pro athlete or something, it's rarely going to be one fo those guys. 

Its most likely going to be an average joe that is already in her social or work circle that is nothing special and likely is not as successful or stable or even as good looking as you. 

What he offers her that you can't is it is ok with him if she is a dirty, nasty, horny $lu++ and he won't judge or condem her for it. 

She is dirty and nasty and ****ty with him because he allows her to be and he doesn't care how well she manages the house or takes care of the kids. Doesn't care that keeps her job or brings home a good check. All he cares is that she swallows and has a good enough time that she comes back for more.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

As a man who would not screw a married woman, I know plenty of guys that do.
I know there are more guys will to bang elephants than cougars, if it's quick easy and stringless.

Their story is just like yours. 

I think the lesson learned here is....Be the best husband/man you can be, That's all one can do. Bring out her inner s**t behind closed doors and let the chips fall where they fall.

I think her past high school friends is the first place they look.....FB, worse than Tinder...They (WS) feel it's more legitimate.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I always got the idea that most OM viewed the WW as an easy lay with no expectations that he would have to commit or marry her. Not a slam, just practicality.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Big10 said:


> This is complete bull, it was probably more like two pumps and a squirt but your narcissistic mind will not let you see your own down fall. I’m sure this will be deleted also, it goes against the moderators agenda of this site. I had my WW clawing the head board Saturday night in pure ecstasy as a ate her out. She was literally dripping wet as she rode my face and her juices ran down the side of my head. Then she hopped off my face and on my ****. She did all the work as I watched the ride. Then I blowed my load all over her a$$.
> 
> She hasn’t stop smiling for 3 days. She sent me a text while i was typing this that she is ready for another round tonight but this time she wants me to eat from behind and do her doggie style until her knees buckle from the full body orgasm.
> 
> ...


You actually made his point, and mine as well.
I agree with you.


This too.."It’s called Narcissist Personality Disorder."
The truth is both the WS and the OM have Narcissistic tendencies.....So, that's not uncommon or some sort of slight. 
That's how they can leave it stringless.

His end of the bargain?? He wasn't married.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> You actually made his point, and mine as well.
> I agree with you.
> 
> 
> ...


No such thing as no strings with a narcissist. It’s all about the fuel matrix.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Message:-*

Folks, this is NOT a porn site. Keep it clean, or be deleted or banned. Your choice.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Big10 said:


> StillSearching said:
> 
> 
> > You actually made his point, and mine as well.
> ...


Narcissists also tend to have big egos and a need to punish those who wrong them.....

So....I guess it takes one to know one?


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> Narcissists also tend to have big egos and a need to punish those who wrong them.....
> 
> *So....I guess it takes one to know one?*


I spent so many years with one I know one when I'm around one. 
I don't think narcissists pick up on narcissists that well. 
Maybe....I'm too empathetic to know.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Nostalgia is really kicking your ass, eh? Are you having a mid-life crisis?


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> *Moderator Message:-*
> 
> Folks, this is NOT a porn site. Keep it clean, or be deleted or banned. Your choice.


I’m trying to make a point that I can get my WW OFF just as good if not better than this OM can. It bothers me when people try to make a point that the OM sex is better then R sex. Read up, study female sexuality and give it to her like she’s never had it before. Then the dude is throwing out hypergamy stuff. Well my WW got off her period 2 weeks ago and I’ve laid the pipe pretty good for 2 weeks. So I must be her alpha male. She should be peaking right now and wants me let her have it tonight.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Big10 said:


> I’m trying to make a point that I can get my WW OFF just as good if not better than this OM can. It bothers me when people try to make a point that the OM sex is better then R sex. Read up, study female sexuality and give it to her like she’s never had it before. Then the dude is throwing out hypergamy stuff. Well my WW got off her period 2 weeks ago and I’ve laid the pipe pretty good for 2 weeks. So I must be her alpha male. She should be peaking right now and wants me let her have it tonight.


In OP's defense, I get the gist that part of his message is that all spouses should be wary of the potential for OM sex to be better, so it behooves the man to not only be alert, but also to take care of mama. I think that what you're saying is a natural extension of OP's intent here, not in contradiction of it. 

And yes, you could have made your point without being gratuitously graphic.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Its most likely going to be an *average joe* that is already in her social or work circle that is nothing special and likely is not as successful or stable or even as good looking as you.


You are here describing yourself as an average joe.

Yet not one other man here has said he has conducted his life anything like yours.

So how are you an average joe? Most men don't target married women, no sir, they don't. For every man like you there are hundreds of men who are not like you. You are not the majority or even close to an average level. Most men really aren't that way, I promise you.

How do I know? Because I've mixed it up with all of you types of men.

Most men are decent, do not try to poach or use another man's woman for sex, and have morals.

I get what you are trying to do here. Just please stop pushing it as if YOU or any of the guys like you are "average joe's".

You are not. You are the rogue males who do your best to find the rogue females. There are plenty of rogues so you all get it on quite often. Just don't tell yourself everyone else is like you.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I haven't read EVERY post by the OP, so I may be wrong.

But, I don't think this series of (very helpful) posts are not about guilt, remorse, morality, it's about technicalities. 

I don't need to see signs of remorse to gain value from his experiences.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> I haven't read EVERY post by the OP, so I may be wrong.
> 
> But, I don't think this series of (very helpful) posts are not about guilt, remorse, morality, it's about technicalities.
> 
> I don't need to see signs of remorse to gain value from his experiences.


Seems more like bragging


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

OnTheFly said:


> I haven't read EVERY post by the OP, so I may be wrong.
> 
> But, I don't think this series of (very helpful) posts are not about guilt, remorse, morality, it's about technicalities.
> 
> I don't need to see signs of remorse to gain value from his experiences.


I can see that. You just need to beware that his experiences are limited to a specific minority and don't apply to universally, despite any claims to the contrary.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> OnTheFly said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read EVERY post by the OP, so I may be wrong.
> ...


I actually don’t think people need to worry about the rogue males or females of the world.

What you need to know is what your partner is up to and who is influencing them.

Also, not just the rogues are a problem anyway. An affair can spring up between two people who have never done anything like this before and truly were not out hunting for sex all the time.

You have to know what your partner is up to in order to know if they are headed down this type of path.

I’m not saying we should all blindly trust our spouses.

I’m just saying that a rogue male is not the thing you should be focused on. Focus on your spouse and what they are doing and with whom.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

You're seeing what you want to see, and missing the point of his posts.

You have designated him a ''rogue'', then warn against rogues.

You missed the reason he calls himself an ''average Joe''.

I'm gaining value from his experiences.





Faithful Wife said:


> I actually don’t think people need to worry about the rogue males or females of the world.
> 
> What you need to know is what your partner is up to and who is influencing them.
> 
> ...


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> You're seeing what you want to see, and missing the point of his posts.
> 
> You have designated him a ''rogue'', then warn against rogues.
> 
> ...


My view of what he is saying or whether or not he is an "average joe" based on his description does not prevent you from gaining value from his experiences.

But seeing as no one else here seems to think he is an "average joe", I'm standing by my opinion. 

Average joe as far as looks, ok sure. I'll buy that as that is what he said.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> My view of what he is saying or whether or not he is an "average joe" based on his description does not prevent you from gaining value from his experiences.


Yes, obviously. Then why did you quote me, and offer advice on what I ''should do''? Don't answer, that's a rhetorical question.



Faithful Wife said:


> But seeing as no one else here seems to think he is an "average joe", I'm standing by my opinion.


I prefer to come to my own conclusions and not base them on consensus.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OnTheFly said:


> Yes, obviously. Then why did you quote me, and offer advice on what I ''should do''? *Don't answer, that's a rhetorical question*


Yes, dear. :grin2:


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> You are here describing yourself as an average joe.
> 
> Yet not one other man here has said he has conducted his life anything like yours.
> 
> ...


I'm not saying everyone is like me. I am not even saying that everyone would cheat or hook up with a married person or anything like that, but let's not keep beating that dead horse. I'll willing to bet that most married people go their whole married lives without cheating and most people (which would be 51% or greater) have not hooked up with a married person without consent of their spouse. So please stop saying that I am saying that I think everyone does what I have done. 

Now as far as me being an Average Joe. Yes, I am a completely average, work-a-day, Joe Sixpack. Average looks. Average height/weight. Average income. Average house in an average suburb of an average US metro area. Totally average, nothing special about me at all. If you walked by me in Wal Mart, you wouldn't even see me. 

This is significant because I am not a tall, dark, handsome, rich playboy or jet-setter or even a Sven at yoga class. 

My point in emphasizing this is to highlight that a potential OM could be anyone. Your neighbor, a guy at the gym, a coworker, a guy at the local Lions Club. 

You are trying to make me somehow unique or an outlier or some kind of freak of nature... or "rougue" as you put it. That makes the world seem more safe and that there is some kind of marker or warning label that somehow makes me 'different' than the guy in the neighborhood that stops for a brief moment to say hi and talk about the heat and humidity as he walks by to the neighborhood mailbox. 

This 'Rogue' that you speak of can be sitting beside you on the bleachers at your kid's ballgame and you'd never know. You'd never know because I am completely normal and average than any other dude other than what went on behind closed doors in my bedroom 30 years ago. 

The reason I have emphasized this is because I DO NOT WANT PEOPLE TO THINK THAT A POTENTIAL OM IS SOMEHOW DIFFERENT OR ROGUE. That's because they are NOT. They are just like any other Joe. 

And a potential WW is not somehow "different" or from a different mold or a different factory. 

I don't want to foster paranoia or turn people into stalkers tracking their wife's every move. But if I have one take-away that I want people to come away with from my posts it is that people cannot afford to have blind trust or believe that their spouse is immune or incapable of stepping out. 

I would be comforting if I was a rogue or somehow special or somehow 'different', but I am not. I AM an Average Joe.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not saying everyone is like me. I am not even saying that everyone would cheat or hook up with a married person or anything like that, but let's not keep beating that dead horse. I'll willing to bet that most married people go their whole married lives without cheating and most people (which would be 51% or greater) have not hooked up with a married person without consent of their spouse. So please stop saying that I am saying that I think everyone does what I have done.
> 
> Now as far as me being an Average Joe.  Yes, I am a completely average, work-a-day, Joe Sixpack. Average looks. Average height/weight. Average income. Average house in an average suburb of an average US metro area. Totally average, nothing special about me at all. If you walked by me in Wal Mart, you wouldn't even see me.
> 
> ...


You may have been average looks wise but it's obvious for a long period of time you didn't have a conscience or any empathy for the destruction you were willfully a part of. That is what makes you an outlier. Not to say there are not more of you out there but I don't think it's half the population.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > You are here describing yourself as an average joe.
> ...


Ok I will get off it.

I get you better.

But you are still special in the sense I mean. Which has so far sounded derogatory as you have intuited.

Personally though hell yes a guy like you is fun. More fun than others. Sexier too. You have a twinkle in your eye I can see from here. If I knew you in person I would pick up on all of that (in a neutral or positive way) and would notice you immediately.

My friends used to call guys like you wolves. We didn’t mean you were out to eat every woman everywhere. No, it was actually about how he could hone in directly on you with wolfish intentions and his eyes and make you feel like prey. But somehow this was a wonderful, magical feeling. (I’m only taking about awesome eye encounters not some kind of scary predator).

I have no problem painting you in the awesome lover and wolfish cad territory. Guys like you have a wake of women. And none of this is sarcasm or even negative.

I love guys like you. Just that in this thread I got a bit off track on your actual meaning.

And also, I can’t usually express these positive feelings about the sexy cad type guys. Because they really aren’t relationship material (as you know, they want to remain on the side), so it rarely comes up.

I’m sorry I’m an ass sometimes.

Some of the things I said are still true but I hope now you can see the picture in my mind about you. 

I will step out of your threads because I’ll find myself still wanting to argue both ways if I stay! Ha!


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## Sauvie Island (Jul 4, 2018)

@oldshirt
Props for keeping it real!

Yes, I was taken back to when I found out about her OM, slightly trigged, but, I see the spirit of your posts.

Let the defensive argue semantics and cast judgment, the special, immune "ones".


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Personally though hell yes a guy like you is fun. More fun than others. Sexier too. You have a twinkle in your eye I can see from here. If I knew you in person I would pick up on all of that (in a neutral or positive way) and would notice you immediately.
> 
> My friends used to call guys like you wolves. We didn’t mean you were out to eat every woman everywhere. No, it was actually about how he could hone in directly on you with wolfish intentions and his eyes and make you feel like prey. But somehow this was a wonderful, magical feeling. (I’m only taking about awesome eye encounters not some kind of scary predator).
> 
> ...


I wish I were as much of a lady's man as you are implying. While I appreciate the clarification, I'm afraid "wolf" is way off the mark and the words most often used to describe me by the typical woman on the street are "nerd" and "geek" etc etc LOL

And I definitely encourage you to discuss and debate these topics as much as you want. Even if you do find yourself arguing both sides of the aisle and even if do butt heads on a few points of contention. 

The reason I posted this was to share some insight and perspective from my past experiences and stimulate thought and discussion. It is not any kind of comprehensive, end-all-be-all textbook or field guide.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> The reason I posted this was to share some insight and perspective from my past experiences and stimulate thought and discussion. It is not any kind of comprehensive, end-all-be-all textbook or field guide.


 @Faithful Wife
I think you should keep posting as this is obviously a thread/s that is in your wheelhouse (that almost sounds dirty) and your input would be appreciated, even more so if it can present both sides.

p.s. Just don't turn it into another **** thread. >


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I wish I were as much of a lady's man as you are implying. While I appreciate the clarification, I'm afraid "wolf" is way off the mark and the words most often used to describe me by the typical woman on the street are "nerd" and "geek" etc etc LOL
> 
> And I definitely encourage you to discuss and debate these topics as much as you want. Even if you do find yourself arguing both sides of the aisle and even if do butt heads on a few points of contention.
> 
> The reason I posted this was to share some insight and perspective from my past experiences and stimulate thought and discussion. It is not any kind of comprehensive, end-all-be-all textbook or field guide.


You are hung up on the word WOLF. So much that you did not comprehend her meaning.
A man that women find interesting. You give off a vibe that pulls them in.
Combine that with you have the social skills and game to start a conversation and then
keep them engaged in conversation.

Outward average, but inside not. Plus no PE or ED. So sex had to be better than at their
house with their BH.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldtruck said:


> You are hung up on the word WOLF. So much that you did not comprehend her meaning.
> A man that women find interesting. You give off a vibe that pulls them in.
> Combine that with you have the social skills and game to start a conversation and then
> keep them engaged in conversation.
> ...


I'm getting the impression that he was just DTF. A player who knew the rules and was able to get the message across to potential cheating women.

I wasn't a wolf either and encountered far crazier scenarios than he is illustrating.

He is pointing out that a lot of men believe falsehoods about their women.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

oldtruck said:


> oldshirt said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I were as much of a lady's man as you are implying. While I appreciate the clarification, I'm afraid "wolf" is way off the mark and the words most often used to describe me by the typical woman on the street are "nerd" and "geek" etc etc LOL
> ...


Also, I was talking about how my friends and I felt about such men. Wolf is the word we used and we meant it in a certain way. I’m sure some people think wolf refers to predators, but we didn’t mean it like that.

Probably a closer word for others would be a rascal. But to us girls, the word was a positive one that had to do with the type of attention the wolf directed at us. 

We had wolfy boyfriends and husbands eventually, too. The wolf part doesn’t necessarily have to do with the cheating or the swinging. Monogamous men can be wolves because it’s more about how you are literally going to stalk her until you catch and then devour her. During the stalking part, you feel electrified by his intentions and intensity. Obviously the sex is awesome too.

My exh and then my next boyfriend after that were definitely both wolves. They ate me alive with just their energy (before doing it literally).

A man like this will not stop once he puts that hungry eye on you. It’s like, he’s a normal guy and then catches a certain glimpse of you and then BAM, you see it fall over his face all at once. His eyes change to something that would be frightening if someone else saw it out of context. But to you, you know exactly what it means. (Swoon)

Sort of like a jungle cat who sees a glimpse of a helpless animal in the distance. He suddenly locks his eyes on the animal, then proceeds to stalk it quietly. His eyes never unlock from the animal. They are like a laser. Nothing short of threat of his own death coming from some other direction will distract him or make him move his eyes off the animal.

I love being dinner. Sometimes it only took the tiniest flash of my leg to cause the wolf to lock on immediately.

My new guy has a bit different vibe. Still awesome. More like a hungry cave man who is sitting down to the feast he already killed and prepared.

The pursuit part, before sex, by a wolf is fun and feels similar. He is absolutely into you and locked on (but not in a creepy way) and will drill into your psyche to find out how to get to the rest of you. Those wolf eyes show up but only momentarily because he knows not to let that all out at once.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Monogamous men can be wolves because it’s more about how you are literally going to stalk her until you catch and then devour her. During the stalking part, you feel electrified by his intentions and intensity.
> ...
> A man like this will not stop once he puts that hungry eye on you. It’s like, he’s a normal guy and then catches a certain glimpse of you and then BAM, you see it fall over his face all at once. His eyes change to something that would be frightening if someone else saw it out of context.
> ...
> He is absolutely into you and locked on (but not in a creepy way) and will drill into your psyche to find out how to get to the rest of you. Those wolf eyes show up but only momentarily because he knows not to let that all out at once.


So, maybe I can guess, but I am curious what would you say is the difference between a wolf and a creep? 

Taken at face value, your words above would apply to a creep, no?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Monogamous men can be wolves because it’s more about how you are literally going to stalk her until you catch and then devour her. During the stalking part, you feel electrified by his intentions and intensity.
> ...


So a creep can also be wolfish. I would not usually mean a creep if I used just the word wolf, however.

A rascal or a cad could be wolfy also.

Or a monogamous man can be one.

The wolf vibe is a sexual thing that comes to men with a certain leaning who use that vibe to make women feel all sparkly.

It comes from sexual experience with women usually, but as I said it can develop in a man who only ever goes wolf on one woman.

It’s in his spirit to begin with, and then he hones it into a skill.

Not all women like this vibe. I love it.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> So a creep can also be wolfish. I would not usually mean a creep if I used just the word wolf, however.
> 
> A rascal or a cad could be wolfy also.
> 
> ...


Okay, but, but, a creep probably thinks the above is him!

I am guessing that the difference is, the creep is doing it shamefacedly?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Laurentium said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > So a creep can also be wolfish. I would not usually mean a creep if I used just the word wolf, however.
> ...


I don’t know how to describe how women know the vibe of a creep. We just do. It’s hard to talk about because some men think women apply the word creep to people who may not have had any creepy intent. And that probably does happen sometimes. But we women just know it when we feel it around us.

Yes, creeps usually think they are just a rascal or wolf probably. They don’t have the capacity to know the difference. They may score sometimes because they wear some woman down or maybe they actually have some special skills or whatever. But generally speaking, a guy who is creepy will not have women swooning in his wake.

The wolf will though.

Oldshirt is/was a wolfy cad. Nothing he described sounded creepy to me. But definitely caddish and wolfish.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

i stopped reading after a few of the posts from "oldshirt" who is just here bragging about his sexual exploits. 

he should title all of these: confessions by a POSOM. 
he left a trail of broken marriages and broken hearts. and now he's bragging about it. 
POG.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

oldtruck said:


> You are hung up on the word WOLF. So much that you did not comprehend her meaning.
> A man that women find interesting. You give off a vibe that pulls them in.
> Combine that with you have the social skills and game to start a conversation and then
> keep them engaged in conversation.
> ...





ConanHub said:


> I'm getting the impression that he was just DTF. A player who knew the rules and was able to get the message across to potential cheating women.
> 
> I wasn't a wolf either and encountered far crazier scenarios than he is illustrating.
> 
> He is pointing out that a lot of men believe falsehoods about their women.





Faithful Wife said:


> We had wolfy boyfriends and husbands eventually, too. The wolf part doesn’t necessarily have to do with the cheating or the swinging. Monogamous men can be wolves because it’s more about how you are literally going to stalk her until you catch and then devour her.
> 
> A man like this will not stop once he puts that hungry eye on you. It’s like, he’s a normal guy and then catches a certain glimpse of you and then BAM, you see it fall over his face all at once. His eyes change to something that would be frightening if someone else saw it out of context. But to you, you know exactly what it means. (Swoon)


First off, I was really surprised by some of the animosity that OS received about his OM series. 

And, most know that he does like to stir things up a bit, but his points are almost always on target. 

Next, I am constantly amazed about how much @Faithful Wife understands about the male mind...

Quite astounding actually, most women that know this won't say it out loud. My GF is enamored with me because she has never been with a man like me, A WOLF. 

And WOLF is absolutely the right word. That is what I am. I stalked my prey this morning as I was poring her coffee. But it is really not my fault. She came in the kitchen in the little nighty that she has on last night before I took it off. She was like a steak dinner for breakfast...

What was I really suppose to do????


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

rugswept said:


> i stopped reading after a few of the posts from "oldshirt" who is just here bragging about his sexual exploits.
> 
> he should title all of these: confessions by a POSOM.
> he left a trail of broken marriages and broken hearts. and now he's bragging about it.
> POG.


You know, we have all done things that were not that great. I have kind of a list myself, most of that involves women. 

But the problem with your post and your situation with your wife, is that you don't get it. And I guess you never will. 

You see, Men like @oldshirt, and even me a few times, would not be POSOM if it were not for the POS wives of men like you.

Can you she the irony of your post. If your wives were not willing, then men would not sleep with them. She was not raped, no one put a gun to her head, she wanted to get laid... it is really that simple. 

I honestly think a lot of men would have a better understanding of life in general if they just admitted this FACT to their selves...


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

BluesPower said:


> First off, I was really surprised by some of the animosity that OS received about his OM series.
> 
> And, most know that he does like to stir things up a bit, but his points are almost always on target.
> 
> ...


A good woman can make you think you are a wolf. Showing up in her little nighty was like pretending to be a wounded rabbit, to attract her WOLF.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Laurentium said:


> So, maybe I can guess, but I am curious what would you say is the difference between a wolf and a creep?
> 
> Taken at face value, your words above would apply to a creep, no?


The creep is broke and unattractive. The Wolf is "bonafide".


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> You know, we have all done things that were not that great. I have kind of a list myself, most of that involves women.
> 
> But the problem with your post and your situation with your wife, is that you don't get it. And I guess you never will.
> 
> ...


It takes two to tango. Neither of two are innocent.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Laurentium said:
> 
> 
> > So, maybe I can guess, but I am curious what would you say is the difference between a wolf and a creep?
> ...


No, please don’t do this.

Please do not try to compare a creep to words like broke or unattractive.

Please.

Try to accept that we are talking about a quality that is something we women pick up on through intuition and reading a man’s vibe.

Very few men are creeps by comparison to non creepy guys. Most guys, even if broke or unattractive or both, are not creeps. It isn’t about that. 

Do you have a sister or daughter? If so you can feel yourself what guys may be creepy if you feel protective of her and are around her while a creep is also around.


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## rugswept (May 8, 2019)

i apologize to all. i really had this forum all wrong. i had recorded some objections to the author of this thread. 
his points are already known by everyone over 30. 0 surprises. some troller men use women. women want something
and they take the troller bait. and yes, they often love it. and, people are also destroyed by it. 

i thought this forum was more dedicated to those trying to recover from infidelity. i was wrong. it's more like it's
about supporting lecherous men on the hunt and casting it as natural to have some males as supremes at banging the girls. 

got it.


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## Sauvie Island (Jul 4, 2018)

rugswept said:


> i apologize to all. i really had this forum all wrong. i had recorded some objections to the author of this thread.
> his points are already known by everyone over 30. 0 surprises. some troller men use women. women want something
> and they take the troller bait. and yes, they often love it. and, people are also destroyed by it.
> 
> ...


You're missing the entire point it would seem my friend.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

SadSamIAm said:


> A good woman can make you think you are a wolf. Showing up in her little nighty was like pretending to be a wounded rabbit, to attract her WOLF.


Well, no.

No woman can "make" a man a wolf if he is not one.

Yes we can entice a man to give chase sometimes. But if he isn't a wolf from something inside himself already, no he will not become one on the spot in response to a wounded rabbit.

In fact, if you (as a woman) try to be the wounded rabbit and entice the wolf out of a guy who doesn't have one, he will typically look at you like you acting like a fool.

Not all men are wolves just waiting to be enticed.

This is not a good or bad thing.

There are lots of different vibes men have. We don't need them all to be wolves. Many women don't enjoy that type of vibe.

In Blue's case, yes of course she knows he is already a wolf and yes knows she can entice him with the merest glimpse of her nighty and yes she was probably hoping for this.

I'm just pointing out that it is not coming from her enticing him and no non-wolf man can be made to behave like that, no matter how enticing you are.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

rugswept said:


> i apologize to all. i really had this forum all wrong. i had recorded some objections to the author of this thread.
> his points are already known by everyone over 30. 0 surprises. some troller men use women. women want something
> and they take the troller bait. and yes, they often love it. and, people are also destroyed by it.
> 
> ...


You know, honestly I am surprised that these threads have not gotten more push back.

Typically we don't discuss these types of things at TAM.

Please don't base your overall opinion of TAM on this group of threads. This is not typical.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> rugswept said:
> 
> 
> > i apologize to all. i really had this forum all wrong. i had recorded some objections to the author of this thread.
> ...


I couldn’t agree more with both of you. This thread is objectifiable trash.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Retribution said:


> I couldn’t agree more with both of you. This thread is objectifiable trash.


My initial reaction was the same. I considered and think the OP is trying to be of some help.


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

I think there is merit to these threads, although I can see why people would be offended or even outraged.

I gave an example in one of @oldshirt 's other threads on this topic about a few people on a night out at a bar, all of whom partnered to someone else not there, acting really inappropriately during the night out. I brought that up because I don't think there is anything that unusual in that aspect about any of them. I'd even go so far to say that I don't even think anyone was looking to step out, I think people just got carried away. 

What percentage of people do you think would make "safe" partners. Really. I mean, from reading boards like these, women who are recovering from an affair, talk about working diligently with a counselor to be able to internally validate themselves and not get their state from others. But if you think about it, aren't there a lot of women who have this issue? What is the hallmark of a rascal. Isn't it about getting a woman to feel a certain way.

Our gender sucks sometimes too. How many men, married to someone who is so busy with the kids or the rest of the family or the household or even her career to make us feel like we are less of a priority, would be able to resist stepping out to someone who acts like our biggest fan. 

Now I am not justifying cheating. It is always the fault of the cheater. I mean, the vows people take, are meant to be taken seriously, they aren't just for when it is easy. We have to protect our relationships. There are always other options other than stepping out.

I do agree with the premise though, that we just cannot afford to fall asleep at the wheel when it comes to our relationships either. From leading the relationship correctly to setting boundaries. As most people just aren't that strong.


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## Retribution (Apr 30, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Retribution said:
> 
> 
> > I couldn’t agree more with both of you. This thread is objectifiable trash.
> ...


Yes. I’ve since discovered and read some other posts. I think he is trying to be helpful as well.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Imajerk17 said:


> I think there is merit to these threads, although I can see why people would be offended or even outraged.
> 
> I gave an example in one of @oldshirt 's other threads on this topic about a few people on a night out at a bar, all of whom partnered to someone else not there, acting really inappropriately during the night out. I brought that up because I don't think there is anything that unusual in that aspect about any of them. I'd even go so far to say that I don't even think anyone was looking to step out, I think people just got carried away.
> 
> ...


I think this is one of your better posts. I know that we have argued some in the past. 

But I 1) do think @oldshirt is trying to be helpful and 2) I agree itht everything you said here. 

I think that one of the points here that OP is making is the following: If your wife or partner is cheating, it is not the fault of the OM. 

Woman know how to handle unwanted attention. If they cheat it is because they wanted to cheat. 

But there is also, which I don't condone this thinking, the situation where the husband is not getting the job done on a number of levels. And while I will never believe that cheating is OK the fact is that it can have an effect. I don't agree with it, I won't put up with is, but I do see it happening... 

I mean, if you have ED or PE, then take a pill. If you have other issues, figure something out. 

And for the life of me I don't get why some people stop romancing their partners. I mean where do you think it leads in the long run. 

But I am also here to tell you that there are a LOT of women putting out the affair, ONS vibe on a daily basis. 

I am not that guy anymore, but if I was that creep at this point in my life, the supply is about limitless.


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## Imajerk17 (Apr 10, 2018)

BluesPower said:


> I think this is one of your better posts. I know that we have argued some in the past.
> 
> But I 1) do think @oldshirt is trying to be helpful and 2) I agree itht everything you said here.
> 
> ...


Well, but all I am doing in all of my posts is expressing reality as I have seen it. Where I think you and I haved disagreed is how people, and women particularily, get caught up in affairs. No doubt MW often comes onto OM. But I think there are as many instances where the woman got into an affair due to letting her boundaries down to the guy's advances where the guy was the aggressor. Which does NOT absolve her of anything, when it comes to the most important thing in protecting her marriage she had ONE job and by getting into an affair--initiating or getting caught up--she failed in that one job of keeping any other man out. 

RE the examples that I gave, I don't quite remember who initiated with who. I do think with the teacher and "family man", it went as a first date goes--the guy flirted with the woman and she reacted/responded. Both were willing participants in the dance so to speak, and I think alcohol was a big part in it. With the nurse and "gay guy" I think the nurse came onto him first.

Now if you are a musician as I recall you mentioning you are, I can see how women seeing you perform would be really attracted to you, and how you would get propositions even from married women.

I agree with pretty much the rest of your post except for the aforementioned.



> But there is also, which I don't condone this thinking, the situation where the husband is not getting the job done on a number of levels. And while I will never believe that cheating is OK the fact is that it can have an effect. I don't agree with it, I won't put up with is, but I do see it happening...
> 
> I mean, if you have ED or PE, then take a pill. If you have other issues, figure something out.
> 
> ...


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Faithful Wife said:


> No, please don’t do this.
> 
> Please do not try to compare a creep to words like broke or unattractive.
> 
> ...


 A little "O Brother where art thou humor". Sorry you didn't get it.


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## Sauvie Island (Jul 4, 2018)

A few years back, I scoured this forum when I had "that" sick feeling about my now exWW. It took a couple of months to get up the nerve to post the usual "she's spending more and more time away, she's moody...blah blah blah..." and it erupted into a 3-month rollercoaster thread.

I was _unforgivably naive._

*Many of you are missing the forest due to the trees.
*
There exists no grace for the naive.

I did not make her cheat, BUT, I was naive to think I could put work first and just coast by, in essence helping to usher our little family's armageddon.

*Naivety concerning human nature* (mine, hers, his). 
*Naivety concerning the duties of a loving, protecting husband.* 

Those are the points I see the OP attempting to make.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Funny series of threads.

A few things come to mind. But mainly: you are right in saying that anyone could cheat POTENTIALLY. Doesn’t mean that everyone will (which is not what you said but some have taken it to mean this way). Just like anyone could potentially kill, given the ‘right’ circumstances, but not everyone does or is going to. In fact most people don’t...

The other thing is: the whole cheating theme seems to almost get fetishised here on TAM. I mean women have sex drives, some have very strong ones. For some reason, some men find it hard to reconcile or find it shocking that some women really like to have sex. And not always with their own husband...**** happens. The way the instances have been presented here (and typically get presented on the CWI section) seems to be through one particular lens.
It certainly made for an entertaining read though!

It’s difficult to imagine circumstances where my wife would cheat. But of course it could happen. So could many things though. The cheating thing is not in the top 10 things I worry about every day, I have to admit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

One Eighty said:


> You spin an interesting tale but it isn't the typical WW OM story. If you go to the OM/OW side of LS, you will see that the VAST majority of WW's want much, MUCH, more than you offered to your WWs. I think you were sourcing some more rare bread of WW.


Meaning what exactly? That most WWs want an OM that will take them away from their BH and give them a bigger house, fancier car, more and better children and a better life in general??? Is that the "typical" WW??

If that is what you are saying, then that just means there are more WWs and more OMs that are either delivering on that or making some kind of promises on delivering that. 

Again, this was MY experience. Other OMs will have other experiences and perspectives. 

I'm not saying my experiences are universal. 

But I don't think my experiences are all that special or unique either since I am just an average guy bumbling along in an average day-to-day existence. It's kind of the ol' "If-I-Can-Do-It-Anyone-Can" type of thing.


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> Meaning what exactly? That most WWs want an OM that will take them away from their BH and give them a bigger house, fancier car, more and better children and a better life in general??? Is that the "typical" WW??
> 
> If that is what you are saying, then that just means there are more WWs and more OMs that are either delivering on that or making some kind of promises on delivering that.
> 
> ...


If you had money, fancy cars etc do you think these partners you had would have wanted more? My ex ran off quickly to move in with Mr perfect as she believed he had more money and security. What she failed to realize is he had money cause he never spent it on disposable girlfriends......


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

oldshirt said:


> I'm not saying everyone is like me. I am not even saying that everyone would cheat or hook up with a married person or anything like that, but let's not keep beating that dead horse. I'll willing to bet that most married people go their whole married lives without cheating and most people (which would be 51% or greater) have not hooked up with a married person without consent of their spouse. So please stop saying that I am saying that I think everyone does what I have done.
> 
> Now as far as me being an Average Joe. Yes, I am a completely average, work-a-day, Joe Sixpack. Average looks. Average height/weight. Average income. Average house in an average suburb of an average US metro area. Totally average, nothing special about me at all. If you walked by me in Wal Mart, you wouldn't even see me.
> 
> ...


You just appear average. Average people have morals, you don’t. As a matter of fact you don’t even understand morals. I would guess serious personality deficiencies. 

I had two friends like you. Both had daddy issues. Both ended up losing their own wives and families. They were great to party with but none of their close friends believed in them or trusted them in any way. They did try prey on their friends partners but their own marriages did not work out well for them though that’s strictly from my view of success. I really don’t know if they cared that much.

It also looks like the women who picked you were not into affairs as much as the folks we see here. Here we see mostly long term love and betrayal not just folks getting their rocks off. You describe mostly short term flings. One out of three people cheat and only 20% are ever caught. 

It’s very saddening that this has been your life. I know it ruined my friends lives.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> You just appear average. Average people have morals, you don’t. As a matter of fact you don’t even understand morals. I would guess serious personality deficiencies.
> 
> I had two friends like you. Both had daddy issues. Both ended up losing their own wives and families. They were great to party with but none of their close friends believed in them or trusted them in any way. They did prey on their friends partners but their hints did not work out well for them though that’s strictly from my view of success. I really don’t know if they cared that much.
> 
> ...


I empathize with this but I know @oldshirt is being honest.

He is an average Joe who was DTF and knew the rules, women and how to play the game.

He is referring to his appearance and lifestyle as far as work and looks go.

I am not what is considered average and I was not DTF. I turned crazy amounts away and never knowingly went with a taken woman but I can attest to the behavior of many women that he is talking about.

It is information gotten from ill intent but useful.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

There are no 'safe' partners. Always keep your guard up. 

The only difference between wolves and creepers is whether or not you are attracted to them.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

OnTheRocks said:


> The only difference between wolves and creepers is whether or not you are attracted to them.


Nope.


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