# Reconciling but still protecting myself



## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Wife and I are going to attempt reconciliation.

What demands and or protective steps should I take as such moving forward?

Here are my thoughts

1. Sell or rent the house (prefer to sell it). Move away from current area.
2. Sell her vehicle and replace it with something else with the money she gets from the sale
3. Continue counseling wherever we are
4. Make an effort with our individual relationships with God
5. Be connected/transparent and/or be able to talk about why we are or are not connected
6. Not be mediocre/miserable
7. Start our relationship over in a lot of ways
8. No consideration of children for at least 3 years - maybe more. I'm thinking about getting snipped in the mean time (these are reversible from what I understand). I don't want kids until our relationship is something worth keeping.

#6 is more of a reflection that will take place at time intervals in the future. If we are miserable a year from now I will not stick with it.

What else should I demand? I'm perfectly fine with demanding something that is obviously there for my protection. Should I consider a post nup or some kind of contract if she screws up? I've made it very clear that any future mistakes in this realm will not be a question - I already have my decision made. This is her last chance.

I know we have a ton of work to do. I'm not going to blindly pretend that it will work - there is a chance if we both put the effort in.

Help me please.


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## Janie (Apr 10, 2010)

Randomguy,

I haven't read any of your prior posts, so I have no idea what your situation is.

I wanted to applaud #8. So often, people think a child will bring the couple closer. I'm glad you're smarter than that.

My husband and I just concluded our reconciliation attempts. After a 3-month separation, we lasted nearly 4 months together again and split last week again.

After that raving review of my expertise, I just want to tell you this will be one of the most difficult things you & your wife will do. Open communication is the key and a willingness to set pride & ego aside to accept your part of the breakdown.

Easier said than done.

But, my #1 piece of advice is that you & your wife diligently attempt to SEE each other the entire time. Be aware of her. Notice when she seems 'off' and ask her about it. If you're upset about something, talk to her about it. Ask her to hear you. DO NOT LOSE SIGHT OF EACH OTHER OR IT WILL NOT WORK. 

I wish you all the luck in the world and will follow your progress with interest.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Janie said:


> Randomguy,
> 
> I haven't read any of your prior posts, so I have no idea what your situation is.
> 
> ...


Yeah I travel for my work some and we are planning on relocating to a less travel location to be near each other more.

My story in a nutshell:

July I found pics on phone and she admits to an EA + some touching. I have huge suspicions she is lying. We start MC.... fast forward 3 months and I check her phone records and find out she's still talking to OM. I confront, she admits to a full blown PA for the last 10 months, I separate and leave for the weekend. I come back and we talk and agree to try to make it work. I think she's telling the truth now, but she's still doing some trickle truth. 

The next week I find her texts with OM for the last 2 months. This really hurts me because there is no filter and I feel like she has been trivializing the entire thing and still lying. I have a window in to their relationship now. At this point I am pretty set on divorce. After finding their texts the whole affair is now hitting me in a real place. Prior to them, I think I was in denial and it wasn't really impacting me how I expected it would.

The last week has been miserable and I have been seeking, praying and trying to justify my feelings/what I think is right versus what my logic is telling me.

I'm at the point now where I have nothing left to lose but time, and I think it is worth the risk of wasting another 6 months to give her a chance to prove that she has and will continue to change.

One thing I've realized over our short sine-wave: if I am not spending any time with her there is no way it will ever work. You can't actively do anything by yourself in a marriage.

That ended up being longer than I wanted!

Oh yeah, I found the OM's GF last week and told her. That was good advice from this forum.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

I just went thru your other thread and just realized that your WW had been using her iPhone as her affair tool. Did you ever get into the backup logs? If you ever got her iTunes password, were you able to inspect the backup logs? Even if emails and messages were deleted, you could still get at them using programs like iPhone Backup Extractor

See it in this thread:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31595-i-need-help-s-p-wifes-emotional-affair.html#post422852


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I just went thru your other thread and just realized that your WW had been using her iPhone as her affair tool. Did you ever get into the backup logs? If you ever got her iTunes password, were you able to inspect the backup logs? Even if emails and messages were deleted, you could still get at them using programs like iPhone Backup Extractor
> 
> See it in this thread:
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/31595-i-need-help-s-p-wifes-emotional-affair.html#post422852


I did, yes. I refuse to pay for software like that so I ended up going through the sqlite databases myself. That's what led me to check her phone records (not sure why I didn't before).

I didn't find any "hidden" files that were previously on the phone. I know she took some pictures and deleted them that didn't show up in the iphone backups.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I did, yes. I refuse to pay for software like that so I ended up going through the sqlite databases myself. That's what led me to check her phone records (not sure why I didn't before).
> 
> I didn't find any "hidden" files that were previously on the phone. I know she took some pictures and deleted them that didn't show up in the iphone backups.


That's good. Then you're reasonably sure there is no more TT that will set you back in R.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I am resurrecting my thread from the dead.

Update: We've been trying to reconcile for about 2 months now I guess (a bit more). We are still seeing a counselor fairly regularly - it was once a week now it's once every other week.

Things have been ok. 

Good:
1. We are communicating more and better - or at least realizing and able to talk about when we aren't communicating well. 
2. Sex is better and more often - but still not meeting my needs.
3. We are spending more time together (I haven't been travelling much for work).
4. She hasn't spoken with OM
5. She seems interested in being married to me
6. She has been transparent with everything I've asked.

Neutral:


Bad:
1. She has a hidden email address that she claims she can't remember /access that she used to send pics and communicate with OM.
2. The "newness" of reconciling seems to have worn off and we are creeping back to our old patterns and ways. I worry about us defaulting to our comfort/laziness and our relationship becoming stagnant again.
3. Right now I feel like there's no way I can have kids with her. I haven't communicated this.
4. If we move from our current area we will lose $30k or so - maybe more. If we sell her vehicle we will probably lose at least $2k - maybe more.
5. I feel pretty insecure about our relationship, sex and our future if I'm honest with myself. We live a mile or so from where WW and OM would meet/and or hookup - every time I leave the house I get a friendly reminder of this unless I am distracted/on a phone call.

My "bad" #3 might be a deal breaker for her.

Thoughts? Comments.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and your bad #1 should be a deal breaker for you


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Yes, she really better remember that address.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

"If you don't give me a baby, I am going to go out and do it again". Eventually, she will end up pregnant, you just won't know if its yours till you can get a DNA test. Vasectomies can be reversed, but its a hell of a lot more painful then getting it done in the first place. If she is still lying and in contact with the OM, and you have set NC as a boundary, you have no business trying to go to counseling or moving forward with her at all. Its not investing 6 months, she hasn't stopped the behavior. You not wanting to have kids with her is a deal breaker? My friend that is entitlement pure and simple. If she acts that way, she will cheat again. She thinks she deserves it. Dump her.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

She has sat down with me in front of the computer trying to remember her username/pw. She claims she made something up and left it up in safari on her iphone - something I can't verify via iphone backups. She claims she didn't actively check it on any computer and didn't have to have a "backup" email address to create the live/hotmail account. She is really trying to say "i don't remember the login info because I never had to use it" -- seems suspect, but I've created email addresses that I've forgotten the info on, too.

I don't know of any other way to find out what it is without the help of OM or his GF. What do i do?

Is she just lying to me? I am in contact with OM's GF. We both think they are not in contact right now.

As far as the kids statement goes - I don't know if I should withhold this for now or if I should go ahead and drop that bomb. I'm not saying it can't change in the future - but right now there is no way.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Come to think of it, a throwaway email is always an option and easy to set up. Finding one does not mean she can't set up another later. Did she volunteer with the info about the account's existence?


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

snap said:


> Come to think of it, a throwaway email is always an option and easy to set up. Finding one does not mean she can't set up another later. Did she volunteer with the info about the account's existence?


Post D-day, I asked her if she had another way of communicating him and said she created this other email address once I found the original emails on her gmail account.

Not volunteered, but she did tell me when I asked.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Did the both of you get tested for STD's/ She put your health at great risk for screwing this guy for such a long period. Do you feel proud and special that she is your wife/ You realize that she is lying to you about forgetting the password. If the roles had been reversed do you think she would have been as accepting as you have been/ Sorry but her actions shows that she has little respect for you and your marriage. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Don't waste your life with a person that would do this to you. Good luck.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

She got tested. I did not. She was clean.

She isn't claiming to have forgotten the password - she is claiming to not know her user name for the other email account.

I don't know what she would've said and how she would've reacted had the roles had been reversed.

It doesn't feel great - but she claims to have changed. I'm trying to give her an opportunity to demonstrate these changes.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I thought reversing a vasectomy was iffy.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> She got tested. I did not. She was clean.
> 
> She isn't claiming to have forgotten the password - she is claiming to not know her user name for the other email account.
> 
> ...


I have to keep a filecard set up for passwords and usernames. Even after that I have trouble paying bills etc. online.

I know I have a couple of email accts I could not access under any circumstances other than luck. You can try the obvious ones that she uses elsewhere, might work.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

She gave me likely usernames and/or combinations of crap she uses to generate a user name. None worked.

The only way I can come up with to find the email addy is for the OM's GF to find it in his email.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Make sure you consult with a urologist about the vasectomy reversal success rate and pregnancy rate before you proceed with the procedure.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I'm not really considering a vasectomy...

Should I tell her my feeling about kids?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> I'm not really considering a vasectomy...
> 
> Should I tell her my feeling about kids?


No because ,like you said, you may want kids in the future. Unless you are just going to tell her you are not ready right now.


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## why not me (Oct 15, 2011)

I wish you luck on the reconciliation. I know what you mean about the newness wearing off, but that can also be a positive. It could mean you are getting comfortable with each other again, but you at least recognize that your bad habits are coming back. Talk about them and work to fix them. Never under estimate how much you have to work at meeting eachother's needs. That is marriage 101 and would stop most affairs if we took it seriously.

As far as the email, It is too easy to make a new email and you would never know about it. I suggest a keylogger and keep checking her phone logs. Keeps the honest people honest. 

As far as the kids issue, my opinion is you need to discuss it with her. If she is truly repentant and willing to do anything to help you get over this, she should understand your fears. Children put a whole different spin on your options and bring a whole new level of stress you do not need. Remember the very true statistic of it takes at least 2 years to recover from a affair. This time needs to be all about focusing on each others needs and as low stress as possible.

Don't get a vasectomy! I got one after our first 2 were born, and even though it failed, it was a huge issue with us, because we did not tell each other our true feelings. 

Talk, Talk, Talk!! Always be gently honest with her and tell her your fears and issues you have. Don't forget to give her the opportunity to tell you what she is feeling. It is very normal for you to be insecure right now and worried about the future, and if she truly loves you and is repentant, she should know this, and it has to hurt her also knowing she caused it. Try not to get upset if she tells you what she feels, it may open up a higher level of communication. As good as it might make you feel to verbally beat her up, try to swallow your pride and show her compassion. When I have been able to do this it has prompted some of our most meaningful conversations and helped her start to forgive herself, which you both need. Fair warning, it might be awhile before you can do this, but it was a turning point in our reconciliation.

Those mental images of driving by certain areas are tough to get over and I still struggle sometimes myself. Just remember it takes time, and try to be sure your distracted when your headed that way, that does help me also.

I hope God blesses you, and Good luck with your journey. what you are feeling right now can change in 5 minutes! I never knew the meaning of "tomorrow is a new day" until I have gone thru this. The hope of a better future is sometimes all we have.

Cheaters suck!


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

The email account doesn't matter at this point. She could have clean it out if there was anything left in it, and she could created 50 more as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

I suspect she knows / remembers it. I'll bet she HASNT cleared it out yet, cause she knows her H is watching like a hawk. If she doesn't try to open and clean it out, he'll never have to find out the content.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

Shaggy said:


> The email account doesn't matter at this point. She could have clean it out if there was anything left in it, and she could created 50 more as well.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Truth. My best line of defense came from my confrontation with the OM's GF. She appreciated my honesty and we have an understanding that we communicate about this kind of crap. I've told her when they would typically meet (when I would go out to practice). Supposedly OM has ended his cell phone service - so they only way they could be meeting/talking would be via work phones/maybe in person, hidden email address, or a hidden cell phone. I have a voice recorder that I never used... maybe it is worth putting that in her vehicle.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

I've been bothered by this whole affair thing - but for the most part I've stayed fairly numb and emotionally calm. I feel like I should be angry but I'm not. Does this come later? I'm not a super emotional person, but anger is one thing I've had in the past... not so much since I've been an adult.

I don't feel like I can be completely honest with fWW with my raw feelings/emotions/thoughts/concerns. Part of our past communication struggles have been my phrasing or presentation of what I want to say - not the actual content. I feel like this is another opportunity to do the exact same thing. The counselor suggested I start making "feeling" statements instead of opinion statements that are so "matter of factly".

How long did your "phases" of recovery last as you went through it? Did your feelings on R or D change throughout?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm just curious....weres her list?

What are the new boundries you both have for the marriage? What are her walls that she needs to put up that will protect her marriage?


In my case, my feeling for D and R changed through out, but we seem to bring it back to R. My phases were quick, I think, I'm not completely over it but I will not let it run my life.I know what I want and it is her choice to walk along side me in our path to a healthy marriage.


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## randomguy123 (Oct 17, 2011)

the guy said:


> I'm just curious....weres her list?
> 
> What are the new boundries you both have for the marriage? What are her walls that she needs to put up that will protect her marriage?
> 
> ...


What list, specifically?

The boundaries are NC with OM and we are in counseling to hopefully figure out how to connect more/make our marriage actually work.

The wall question is a good one - I'm not real sure how to define it/answer it. How would you answer it?


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## Blindasabat (Nov 29, 2011)

If she has an iphone use free icloud for phone gps tracking -the phone is yours now you should know where it/she is
I know a truly devious WS could leave the phone somewhere but then you have VAR backup.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

randomguy123 said:


> She gave me likely usernames and/or combinations of crap she uses to generate a user name. None worked.
> 
> The only way I can come up with to find the email addy is for the OM's GF to find it in his email.


Alright, there may be a chance that you can retrieve it through the web browsers. These are the programs that I used to get the password to the wifes secret facebook account after DDay. This is before I looked on the net about keyloggers, etc. You can download these off the interwebs. Google these.

WebBrowserPassView - Works for Internet Explorer, Firefox, and Google Chrome

FirePasswordViewer - Firefox only
IEPasswordDecryptor - Internet Explorer only
OperaPasswordDecryptor - Opera browsers

Hope this helps.


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