# How to ruin a marrage.



## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

When my wife (39) and I (45) met and fell in love it was your usual scenario. Sex was frequent and satisfying. 13 years later, she wants nothing to do with me. Sex is now a 'chore' and that is exactly how she characterizes it. She confessed this to me late last year, that she has been going through the motions and doing it to please me. She doesn't want to do that any more. I feel that this is mainly if not entirely my fault. Posting this to get my thoughts out and vent. It's probably nothing we haven't seen here before. The affect from this has been crushing to my confidence in myself and the marriage.

We met on myspace and my picture caught her eye. At the time I was fit and lifting weights regularly. I was a relatively cut up 160 lbs. I kept that up for a while, years, but eventually blew my arms out in the gym by being a stubborn moron and working through an injury. Due to that permanent problem serious weight lifting is not possible any more. I began to let things slowly slide and have put on roughly 25 lbs. I'm 5'8, 185. This has hurt my wife's physical attraction for me. The quality of sex hasn't really changed much however to be fair I'm a C+ at best and always have been. For whatever reason, that was fine in the beginning. Efforts to improve that have failed on my part. Compounding things, she went on hormonal birth control when we got married and feels it has damaged her libido possibly to the point it may be unrecoverable. She went off hormonal birth control over six months ago now and there has been no improvement in her interest for me. We've had talks and she says she does not self-pleasure nor does she have any interest in other men. She still finds some men interesting and attractive on some level but she does not feel any significant sexual frustration or desires currently.

How I was 13 years ago is not how I am now. I'm not obese or completely disgusting. But I don't look like I used to, and that was enough to destroy much of her attraction for me.

It seems now I have gotten myself painted into a corner. With a few exceptions and based mainly off anecdotes in forums like this or r/deadbedrooms it seems that this issue is not usually fixable. Once she's done with you and you're not interesting any more that's often times it.

What needs to be done seems to be clear at this point. I need to get into the best shape I can and work on improving myself. If that doesn't help the situation then I have a few choices which all basically suck.
a) divorce and endure the significant emotional and financial impact that comes with it. risk being alone moving on, finding someone else is no guarantee
b) stay and spend the next 30 years spanking it to a computer screen
c) stay and risk her suddenly finding her libido for someone else who knows how far down the road that could be

What little advice I can offer at this point is nothing anyone here doesn't already know.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Getting into better shape will not solve the problem if your gaining 25 pounds is not the problem. You're not going to be able to maintain perfect toning for your whole life. Being healthy and fit are great, but they are somewhat superficial as you grow older (assuming you don't get obese.) 

You have a serious problem in your relationship with her. Have you ever been to counseling? 

Be aware that IF she is interested in other men, she'll lie about it. More than anything else, it sounds like she's lost interest in you. If that's that case, are you prepared to live with that the rest of your life?


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Has your wife said that she has lost physical attraction to you since you gained a little weight?
Or this an assumption on your part because of your reduced confidence?

It seems more like your wife has no libido, if she doesn't self pleasure either. 
Improving yourself will not affect a hormone imbalance in your wife.

Your wife must be 52 now, so due to go through menopause, which can also reduce libido as her hormones deplete.
Again, improving yourself physically won't change her hormones.

The problem is not so much your shape, but your wife's loss of hormonal induced desire.

You might have to wait more than six months since she came off hormonal birth control, as her own hormones won't settle for some time yet if she is perimenopausal.

Why is sex a chore though?
Because even with low desire it can still be a sweet experience.
It's usually a chore when it becomes same old same old.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

First off. Option A is not the dark hole you paint it out to be. Actually spending time with someone who likes to be with you, will appreciate the dinner you took her to, is like a breath of fresh air. Finding someone new is not as hard as you would think. I was divorced after a 30 year marriage, my xwife was my high school girlfriend, I had not ever really dated. I had no problem what so ever finding dates, and was pleasently surprised at the type of woman I found to date. Very nice, pleasant, attractive, interesting women. I went from eating with a woman who would complain about something, never a "thank you, this is very nice" ever, to "Oh wow,this is nice, what a nice evening". Notice I didnt say it was easy, lots of bumps in the road, but well worth the trip and far better than just staying is limbo.

Yep, get into shape, not to increase your appeal to her, but to get yourself going. Even if you stay with her, you will be far better for it. Swimming is an excellent exercise, and less strain on muscels and joints.

If you decide to stay with her, that is your choice. (at one point the ONLY thing I wanted was to stay with my xwife) I and others can respect that. BUT IF YOU DO, dont keep coming on here crying in your beer because she doesnt love you, wont have sex with you, because that is entirely YOUR CHOICE. (andI really, really dont like to hear the whining)

So sorry you are here. Good luck to you and your choices. May you get what you want, what ever that may be.

Hoosier


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

I want to be the problem that way I can fix it syndrome. Maybe you should live life for yourself and if your wife wants to come along great.

There is no one and only soulmate.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Hoosier said:


> If you decide to stay with her, that is your choice. (at one point the ONLY thing I wanted was to stay with my xwife) I and others can respect that. BUT IF YOU DO, dont keep coming on here crying in your beer because she doesnt love you, wont have sex with you, because that is entirely YOUR CHOICE. (andI really, really dont like to hear the whining)


EXCELLENT perspective!!!! 

And I agree, if you decide to stay, you are NOT the victim of a sexless, unfulfilling marriage -- you are getting what YOU chose, so embrace that choice and find a way to be happy with it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm glad someone mentioned menopause before me...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

I had option A in my back pocket except I wasn’t worried about finding someone after. The money part is annoying however if someone told me I could be happy and satisfied and it cost me half my income that’s a no brainer. I was happy earlier in my life when I had 1/20th of my current income.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Have you told her that you are so unhappy you are thinking of ending the marriage?
If not then do.She may be shocked. 
I doubt it's the weight. You didn't gain that much and ALL if us change as we get older in many ways.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

You mean your wife is not going to change her mind even if you regain your former physical shape? She's done with sex? You are only 52... there's a whole world out there. Look, I'm in the same boat, but I'm not staying with a woman who doesn't desire me. I get the reasons - or excuses - but I can't get over the rejection feeling. I can't be with someone who's rejected me sexually for the rest of my life. It's a permanent reminder of not being good enough. We are getting out of Covid. It's time to organise your new life.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

First, your twenty pounds of weight gain likely have nothing to do with her attraction... truth be told most women like a man with some meat on his bones. My wife prefers me twenty-five pounds heavier than the “abs visible” version.

I imagine the real loss of attraction is that you ignore her needs (especially emotional) or are a selfish arsehole (easy for men like us).

I’m sure she’s highly offended that you’re a porn user too... marital intimacy to you is probably copying what you’re seeing on the screen rather than a true desire for HER.

Finally, most injuries heal or can be fixed.Dropping your lifting hobby is just a lousy excuse unless you have a chronic health condition. Arm/shoulder tears can be fixed.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

All. Ages quoted are current. She is 39 I am 45. Sorry for the confusion.

And yes she has been after me about my 25lb weight gain and stomach now for a while. I didn't heed the warnings and act decisively soon enough. The weight is an issue for her. I'm not cut up and trim with good muscle tone like I once was.

Also the porn is a non issue. I rarely do it and have made it clear I want her not rubbing one out. She's actually encouraged me to do it to "take care of myself" which is not a viable long term route I want to take.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You haven't made any strides with the PE?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

amorous_1 said:


> Also the porn is a non issue. I rarely do it and have made it clear I want her not rubbing one out. She's actually encouraged me to do it to "take care of myself" which is not a viable long term route I want to take.


She says it doesn’t bother her- that doesn’t mean it doesn’t. I’m sure you’d be offended if tables were turned.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

You sound like a "nice guy", meaning all the problems are your fault. That's your problem. Marriage involves two people.

Dude even if you get super cut, you were always going to age if she needed a guy with a 6 pack to have sex with him then she is probably not a good choice to be married to, just like a guy who needs his wife to stay in shape like she is 20. This is ridiculous.

I am not saying you shouldn't get in better shape and try to improve your sex life, but your wife has agency too.

Women don't respect men who treat them like children, or magical angels to be worshiped, guys who take total responsibility even when they act out. They don't want to be married to push overs. They see guys like that like a parent or worse, weak. Honestly most men who do this do so because they are afraid, passive aggressive or lazy, these types of guys don't want to deal with the confrontation. Women want to be married to guys that people think are a catch, generally that means guys who get **** done.

When your wife tells you she is not into sex with you the response should be - What's the problem. If she tells you it's mostly medical then the response should be well are you going to try to fix that? Have you gone to the doctor? Basically - this is important. Not feeling sorry for yourself. 

One question would be are you as unassertive about things you should be getting done around the house? Are you really emotionally connected to your wife? In all of this a better strategy is to expect a lot from yourself and your spouse. The best strategy is to be the man your wife respects. Only way to do that is to be the man that you respect first. That means working every day to be your best.

It's so obvious your wife has no fear of losing you, or being a jerk. She is going through the motions because you are always going to be their like, loyal, when needed. Not a good thing.

By the way, this isn't uncommon and it would be the same advice I would give if the roles were reversed. Bottom line don't let your partner take you for granted.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Might want to look into sueing the company that made the birth control.

Sounds like it permanently damaged her.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Look before you work on this marriage work on yourself, sit down and make a plan, you make not be able to do the heavy lifting anymore , but there are a number of excise routines you can get into that will actually improve your cardio and body....i used to be a gym rat for decades but now i am doing daily 10 minute workout and tai chi and i eat right, 25lbs is not the end of the world, also keep in mind you are doing this for you not her. additionally you need to also work on your mind, on your psyche.....start a journey as well with reading and learning ( i would have you start no more mr. nice guy) but buy it in book form so she sees you read this....the key here is to stay quiet for now and work on yourself....when she sees over time you are changing she will start to get worried but do not get engaged yet. 
now are you planning on having kids or not ?


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

She's not offended by the porn which is basically a once a week or less thing. She actually has encouraged it. If it offends her then that is on her for not communicating it.

As far as the PE issues go, they are still there. I've had some success with sprays and pills like viagra but it's sort of hit or miss. Low dose paxil seems like it might be worth a try. But keep in mind unless she's been dishonest I've had these conversations with her before and while the sex could be better she's not really been harping on that. Not always but certainly some of the time when we did have sex she would at least have an orgasm typically by playing with herself while I was in her. So that had to feel good but I'm aware of the fact that it can still be a chore to someone even if it feels good while you're doing it.

No kids.

And I appreciate the thoughtful and unexpected amount of feedback. I'll try to come back to this in the next day or two when I have some time to form a good response for you and am away from work.


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## Jamieboy (Jan 14, 2021)

amorous_1 said:


> All. Ages quoted are current. She is 39 I am 45. Sorry for the confusion.
> 
> And yes she has been after me about my 25lb weight gain and stomach now for a while. I didn't heed the warnings and act decisively soon enough. The weight is an issue for her. I'm not cut up and trim with good muscle tone like I once was.
> 
> Also the porn is a non issue. I rarely do it and have made it clear I want her not rubbing one out. She's actually encouraged me to do it to "take care of myself" which is not a viable long term route I want to take.


Dude, if you're wife is turned off by a bit of weight gain, she is somewhat shallow in my opinion. You need to value yourself more highly, you'll definitely get another woman if you divorce. Don't scare yourself into staying where you're not wanted. 

If its medical and she won't take steps to sort it more evidence she's not into you. In which case she only wants you for your material advantage.

I know this sounds harsh but, take the advice always on offer. Which distills down to be the master of your own happiness. 

Divorce and risk getting the exact amount of sex you're getting now, or stay and get no sex.

Seems to me if sex is important at least one route offers a chance 🤔


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## AGoodFlogging (Dec 19, 2020)

Do you ever make her orgasm or is it just her flicking the bean while you have penetrative sex? Possibly something to think about.

How did the conversation where she revealed that she is going through the motions end? Did it end with you telling her that this is a very serious issue and needs to be worked on or did you just take that statement and walk away to enter this self blame cycle you appear to have entered.

Let me tell you something for free. You will never solve this problem by yourself. This is a relationship issue and needs you both working on it together.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’d say it’s absolutely imperative that you learn how to make her orgasm.. she should not have to do this on her own... this is fully your responsibility.

I think it’s probably the ultimate passive aggressive thing a wife could do- encourage hubby to go spank to porn. Yeah, she’s pretty much hating you right now.

This seems like so classic case of “man not getting it”. You think she’s lost attraction because you’ve gain twenty pounds. Rather, she’s frustrated beyond belief and doesn’t want sex with you because she continually is “left hanging”... that is cruel to your wife and lover.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short 

Do not do the infamous “pick me dance”. That’ll just make you look more unattractive.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

amorous_1 said:


> *She's not offended by the porn which is basically a once a week or less thing. She actually has encouraged it. * If it offends her then that is on her for not communicating it.
> 
> As far as the PE issues go, they are still there. I've had some success with sprays and pills like viagra but it's sort of hit or miss. Low dose paxil seems like it might be worth a try. But keep in mind unless she's been dishonest I've had these conversations with her before and while the sex could be better she's not really been harping on that. Not always but certainly some of the time when we did have sex she would at least have an orgasm typically by playing with herself while I was in her. So that had to feel good but I'm aware of the fact that it can still be a chore to someone even if it feels good while you're doing it.
> 
> ...


So in essence as you said in the opening post, she wants nothing to do with you and is fine with however you take care of your needs, so long as you don't bother her. And by the way she told you she hasn't really cared for having sex with you in some time.

"A" is your only choice. She has already left the room and your fears of being alone are unfounded because you are alone now. All that remains is filling out the paperwork and dividing the assets. It might be interesting to contemplate how things would be if she had gotten 13 years older, gained some weight, started sagging in places. She would be highly offended that you had a problem with that. She isn't worth any more of your time. You chose poorly.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

If your wife views sex as a marital chore, in my opinion you might actually benefit from validating that and perhaps admit that you may not be an easy person to please which likely makes that chore more difficult. 

Then you can shift gears and ask her to help you with that and if there is anything you can do to make that chore easier or even enjoyable for her. Odds are that may not help but I doubt she will anticipate that approach. It should at least get her thinking to help improve future communications and debates on the topic. 

If you wife is someone that is eager to please, which would be her reason for doing this chore in the past, you need to be aware that there actually is A LOT of sexual pleasure in pleasing someone else. This is why all men want to try and give their spouse an orgasm and it can take away a lot of pleasure and gratification to learn that it did not happen. So change up your perspective and ask yourself how to please someone that historically just aims to please? 1) Your wife probably needs to know she is appreciated, so practice gratitude in all areas of your marriage. 2) Your wife may struggle feeling worthy of receiving pleasure for herself, so work on her self confidence and let her know she is worth it. 

Good luck, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d say it’s absolutely imperative that you learn how to make her orgasm.. she should not have to do this on her own... this is fully your responsibility.


Much more important in my opinion is helping give her the self confidence to stand up for herself and ask for whatever is needed to make that happen.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

She’s told you to your face that sex with you is a “chore” and that she doesn’t want to anymore. 

She’s encouraged you to take care of yourself so she doesn’t have to. 

That tells you everything you need to know. 

Your options are #1:divorce and move on. 

#2: stay and live as roommates and sit alone in the dark watching other men have sex. 

#3: stay and get it elsewhere.

Each of those has its own costs vs benefits and pros and cons. 

The advantage that you have over a lot of us here is your wife has come right out and told you where you stand. You are able to make an informed decision rather than relying on various forms of voodoo and witchcraft to try to decide where she stands.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

As others have pointed out, Option A is not some dire situation. Get a plan, I talked to an attorney and my financial advisor. They gave me a plan and made it clear what I needed to do.

As far as her desire for others, I'd bet she'd suddenly find the desire if she were single again. Might even be with a woman, no I'm not trolling you. I personally know more than one lesbian who was married for several years and had kids who had a change of heart, discovered themselves, whatever clitche you want to use.

Work on yourself. Chase excellence. Read the Rational Male, books 1 and 2.

Best of luck.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

From someone who has pursued the abz and biceps for years thinking that would turn things around and bring back the desire and passion , I will say that I get lots of compliments and get my arms felt up by OTHER women, but at home?? Nope, notta, doesn’t matter. 

I agree with an earlier poster that said thinking that our weight gain and decline in fitness is the cause, makes us feel empowered because we think if we can get da abz and da gunz, then we will restore the desire.

But I don’t know if getting gunz and abz again will mean a hill of beans difference. Gunz and abz can’t turn back 13 years of marriage and domestic life together. Sometimes relationships simply have an expiration date. 

It’s worth looking into MC to see if there is some other thing that is turning her off or something actually fixable in the marriage. 

But someone coming right out and telling you they no longer want to have sex with you and encouraging you to spank on your own is pretty damming. 

Are you sure you even want to be with someone that feels that way about you???

That is an honest question you really need to look deep inside yourself to answer.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I also want to make a comment about her supposed lack of interest or desire in any other men.

Assuming that is true in the first place, women’s sexuality is notorious for going dormant for sometimes years and then one day some guy says or does something that reignites her fire and she is suddenly as horny and sex crazed as a teenage on prom night with the quarterback. 

I personally know a woman in her 50s that hadn’t had sex for several years, was post menopausal and hadn’t a menstrual period in a few years and when she got with someone and started having sex again, not only was she horny as teenager again but her monthly periods CAME BACK. 

It not only changes her emotional state, it changed her actual physiology. 

Your wife may actually be completely uninterested in sex today, but if Sven From Yoga or Kevin From Sales winks at her the right way, she may be off to the races and acting like a teenager again. ......but only for him.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And that being said, you also need to make a sincere look into whether she is already getting with someone else. 

Many women in affairs will become downright repulsed by the though of sex with their husbands even though their husbands may be perfectly good looking, decent guys that treat them well. 

Their desire transfers over completely to the OM and they cut off all sexual response to their BH all together.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Sometimes marriage becomes very stagnate. We get irritated by our partner's choices or behavior but we tolerate it. The dating stopped long ago and when we stop discovering about the other person, crating new adventures to keep the relationship alive day to day life can become real boring. I was married 24 years and my ex was so into his own world.....his interests, his job, his whatever.....it was like I was not there. It didn't seem to want to spend time with me and little by little it killed us. Weight could be part of it but it is not the whole picture. Women love sex. Sometimes I think men don't believe we do but we really do.My sex life with my ex was so dead, he never wanted to try anything new, I was the one going to him.....it gets old. I finally stopped, I gave up and it sounds kind of like what your wife has done. I have had more sex in the past 2 years than I have had in a very long time. The man I am with shows his interests, we talk and I can say at 58, I am more sexually active than I ever have been.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Just my thought but once the sex stops and the issues become as deep as the OP has mentioned, its not going to get better...especially if he is trying to solve it alone.


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## Unknown2u (May 19, 2021)

x


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ask for an open marriage... if she agrees to it, you have your answer.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

It doesn't sound like his wife has ever had a sexually fulfilling relationship with the OP. It may be a case of too little payoff for the work load.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

*To answer a few of the questions from the feedback:*

Yes, the vast majority of the time we have had penetrative sex my wife has stimulated herself clitorally to achieve orgasm. We've discussed this and I've been assured this is not an issue for her and in fact is a common thing, that many women have difficulty climaxing from penetration alone. Based on her input and reading I've done on my own it did not seem to be a huge issue.

There is no doubt in my mind that sex was satisfying and more than just passable for her in the first couple years of the relationship. That said it may have become somewhat stale for her, though attempts to communicate about this were met with dismissal and assurances it was OK. Since she was able to climax at least half the time we were intimate my level of concern was somewhat lessened.

As far as an affair goes. The main signs for this are not there and I am aware of what to look for. That said, without a PI tailing her it's tough to say for 100% certainty. These things can be hidden well especially when it's someone at work. I'm not a fool though and this is an area of concern if I were to stay in the marriage long term.

Staying and getting it elsewhere or opening the marriage is not an option. That would be the eventual end for sure and short of paying for it getting regular intimacy on the side is not something I'm going to be able to pull off without a miracle. I'm not some smooth talker nor do I look as good as Superman.

To be clear, I have had talks with her, and have made it well known that I did not get married to her to lead a celibate life as a monk and I have no intention of whacking it to porn for the next 30 years. This absolutely MUST be addressed, no question whatsoever.

*Regarding what I want to do:*

I want to make a wholehearted attempt to work this out. In the spirit of heading that direction for now, I'm looking for input on what can be done. Along those lines I have some thoughts on how to approach this on my own, on her own, and together. Input on this is welcome.

Together:
a) Have another chat and reiterate in a tactful way and from a loving angle that this must be resolved for the marriage to continue.
b) Work on identifying how we can connect again as a couple.
c) Identify behaviors that need to change to help remove actions that could be killing attraction. This can be communicated tactfully, but it must be honest and no holding back for fear of harming feelings. This would also cover discussing the quality (or possible lack) of sex.
d) Counseling, possibly first separately and then together.
e) Discuss any ideas she or I may have to help that we can come up with.

Her:
a) Getting a full hormonal screen done to rule out any possible medical factors.

Me:
a) Work on improving myself. My health primarily but also my overall value.

That is all I can come up with this morning. I think it's also worth mention that we are still affectionate towards each other saying the i love yous, hugging, kissing, etc.. There is no question in my mind that there is love here. We need to try and find a way to reignite the spark in the relationship that seems to be missing. If this fails, and we can't do it, then I refuse to go through life from here looking back with any doubt that I hadn't tried everything I could to fix this. And I'm well aware that if she isn't on-board the same boat, then we're going to end up going in separate directions.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think the big question is does she ever have an orgasm with you that she is not responsible for? So she's difficult to please with penetrative sex but how about outside of penetrative sex- are you able to please her in any other way? If so, do more of that because her being satisfied "half" the time is probably unacceptable.

Generally speaking, try and be a gentleman too. Not saying you aren't, but being grumpy, harsh, or emotionally absent is another way to shut down your wife. My wife is most available for sex when I've been nice, we've had an enjoyable day together, and when we're emotionally in sync.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

Oh, Oh, hearing the "we are going to talk about it, fix it" crap. Main problem with this is she doesnt care if it is fixed or not. But dont worry your sex life will "absolutely must be addressed!" sure that answer is coming soon.....right.

A good friend of mine, was in the process of a divorce for 4 YEARS. mainly because he wanted to attend a couples retreeat organization which had a "80%-90% success rate! As I tried to tell him that was mainly because the only time a "couple" would generally attend was where both WANTED the marriage to be saved. He went as far as to offer better terms to her if she would agree to attend. She said no, he paid all her bills for the 4 years, then finally divorced last August (by the way, he met someone and has been seeing her for 6 months, he is 61, having the best time he has had in 20 years) she (his x) was more than willing to let it continue, never for a minute wanted to get back with him. She told him time and again, he would bring her flowers. Dont be that guy.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Amorous, I admire your dedication to your marriage. Definitely see if your wife is willing to see a hormone specialist. A GP or even a GYN is not going do the proper screening....been there myself. If your wife in heading into menopause I will forewarn you this can be the most difficult time in a woman's life for many reasons, it is not smooth sailing for most. Not all women are close enough to their husband's to tell them everything they are going thru and dealing with at this time of their lives. I know for myself, I dealt with a great deal of anger.

Do try to go back to the courtship however, leave her a random love note....simple like "love your smile." Fix her dinner without the expectation of sex later. Let her know she did a great job with *___* or that she looks amazing. Hug her once in awhile very quickly, do not be hurt if she is not responsive at first. If she is overwhelmed with something she is dealing with and is venting to her, tell how you understand and perhaps give an example that maybe see can relate to. What does she like to do that you have been resistant to do with her? Now is the time to ask if she would like to do this. Don't do all of this all at once, do it slowly. She might be watching you right now and realizes efforts are not going to last and if that is the case she is not going to give much credit to your efforts. Be fully aware you might not get immediate results. It sounds to me that your life is at least partly checked out. If she has already said she does not want counseling, put these things in place first.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

"Do try to go back to the courtship however, leave her a random love note....simple like "love your smile." Fix her dinner without the expectation of sex later. Let her know she did a great job with *___* or that she looks amazing. Hug her once in awhile very quickly, do not be hurt if she is not responsive at first."(Need to add) "Because she is a special Princess, you can never get anyone as nice as her ever, ever, again. No sex? Heck you should just be glad she lowers herself to talk to you. Now, go give her a foot massage (dont expect anything back in return) and maybe she will allow you to kiss her ring.

You can not "nice" her back to the relationship. Love on here when a wife tells her husband, she doesnt love him anymore, doesnt want to have sex with him anymore, and somebody responds "Hey! Do the dishes! Sweep the floor! Bath the kids!, but DONT YOU DARE PUT ANY PRESSURE ON THEM" Basically, what you have been trying for last couple of years....how is that working for you? 

You only have one chance, and a very slim one, of getting back to a healthy relationship with your wife. She must BELIEVE that she is going to lose you if she doesnt change, and most importantly SHE MUST WANT TO STAY WITH YOU.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> I’d say it’s absolutely imperative that you learn how to make her orgasm.. she should not have to do this on her own... this is fully your responsibility.
> 
> I think it’s probably the ultimate passive aggressive thing a wife could do- encourage hubby to go spank to porn. Yeah, she’s pretty much hating you right now.
> 
> This seems like so classic case of “man not getting it”. You think she’s lost attraction because you’ve gain twenty pounds. Rather, she’s frustrated beyond belief and doesn’t want sex with you because she continually is “left hanging”... that is cruel to your wife and lover.


I think it’s accumulation of things. One thing on its own doesn’t bother us as long as we’re overall happy. Like 25lbs is really no big deal on its own. BUT… when it’s now 25lbs, and never getting an orgasm, and not getting romance and help around the house… all these things add up and it’s like too little too late. 

Especially if she has told him to get in better shape. We never WANT to tell our spouses this, so when we do it, it’s usually a strong warning sign. And for him to let this slide for who knows how many years… I mean what else has he let slide? Is he still not helping with the house, or whatever else women ask for help with. 

This is the problem… women complain to their men when they aren’t happy. It’s a warning sign. But because their behavior hasn’t changed they keep going as is. Then the women gets sick of complaining and it’s too late. That’s with the run away wives or whatever. I bet there was years of warnings before most women are done with their marriage. Men need to listen the first time around.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

39 with no kids? Come on, you know she wants sex. Especially if she’s in good shape and healthy.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Girl_power said:


> I bet there was years of warnings...


Was for me.

I was caught up in thinking how awesome and cute I was in combination with selfishness and stubbornness. Don’t get me wrong my wife is also selfish and I like it. But when she’d give me a warning I’d be like “thanks for the the tip bro I got this” and then go back to what I was doing that pissed her off.

It was hard to calibrate because I can think of only once when we ever had an argument with raised voices. She took off her shoe and threw it at me in the middle of the street. Later saying, “You haven’t seen it but I’m a thrower.”

Had I just paid better attention I wouldn’t have wasted a lot of time on idiocy. I think part of this may be men taking much longer to mature.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Much more important in my opinion is helping give her the self confidence to stand up for herself and ask for whatever is needed to make that happen.


I think many confident women aren't going to give detailed instructions on how to make them orgasm especially during the act. Regardless, I'd say it again that it's absolutely critical that hubby learns how to push her buttons.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Hoosier said:


> She must BELIEVE that she is going to lose you if she doesnt change, and most importantly SHE MUST WANT TO STAY WITH YOU.


In my opinion that is a dangerous game to play. If my ex would have done this I would have told him to just right ahead and I would have known that I was never loved by the man.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> I think many confident women aren't going to give detailed instructions on how to make them orgasm especially during the act. Regardless, I'd say it again that it's absolutely critical that hubby learns how to push her buttons.


Yes, I agree. Once that connection is made where sex is completely satisfying by bother partners it is fantastic. I do not feel many men understand the importance of this and they do not know how to please their wife in bed. There's certain areas inside and out that can make us ladies explode.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

"In my opinion that is a dangerous game to play. If my ex would have done this I would have told him to just right ahead and I would have known that I was never loved by the man. "

My bad, I didnt point out that I would not be playing any game, you must sincerely mean it when you say "either its fixed or I am gone." Like I said a very slim chance of working. But with no consequences why would she change? The danger is she says to herself, "I'm not dong that!" at least you will know for sure that getting out is the best thing. 

How by telling your spouse, who use to have sex, seemed to enjoy it, that "you were not going to be celibate the rest of your life and you will be moving on" is somehow telling her you never loved her. uh,,.., ok.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

AVR1962 said:


> I do not feel many men...do not know how to please their wife in bed. There's certain areas inside and out that can make us ladies explode.


If women choose not to communicate that information, then both people suffer as a result.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Less talk.

More oral on her. The goal is she does need to O everytime or 90%, to not in a quickie is her choice..
Just trying to keep things simple.

Use your imagination constantly. Don't ask, just do, if she doesn't like she'll say. If she doesn't like something don't take it personally or dwell on it, just move on to the next imaginative thing you want to try.

Many women won't feel comfortable asking for what they want to try but will show H they do, when H tries it.

And, never serious conversation in bed, always humor, and good fun spirits, good attitude.


.


Sfort said:


> If women choose not to communicate that information, then both people suffer as a result.


This is exactly what I've said before, to head this off as much as can be and always keeps things moving forward in a positive manner and relieves pressure of too much talky talky. 

Some women just do not feel comfortable asking for what kinky or "dirty" thing they want to try, for fear actually asking will diminish their good girl image for whatever reason.

So, the H must take the reigns and continuously bring different things into the bedroom AND TRY to do many things because the W has no issues showing by her actions what she's up for and wants, so H can add to repertoire. 

And the W keeps her self evaluation intact because she didn't actually say it, but she likes it and wants it.

So H keeps trying whatever he can think of, imagination and all that. Ongoing.

Whatever she says no on, humorously move on, don't take it personally and don't dwell on.

But push the boundaries continuously, she will demonstrate by her actions what she likes.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

CatholicDad said:


> So she's difficult to please with penetrative sex but how about outside of penetrative sex- are you able to please her in any other way? If so, do more of that because her being satisfied "half" the time is probably unacceptable.


I love going down on her. I do it as often as she wants.

Regardless of what we do in bed she is not always able to climax. Is this because of me? I've brought it up enough times and been met with denials that I don't know what to tell you. She tells me she isn't a robot, and sometimes it isn't going to happen no matter what we do. Is she a liar? How the F am I supposed to know man.

Beyond her not always being able to climax, and being unable to do so via penetration, I've spoken with her about trying new things and just the general quality. Every time, met with denials that this is a problem.

If she's not telling the truth to protect my feelings she is not helping things. This is a serious situation, I would even say dire, so I will press this angle one more time when we have our next talk. If she does suddenly pop up with things I don't want to hear then I don't have to respond right away out of hurt feelings. I can take a little time to calm down and formulate a rational response.


> Generally speaking, try and be a gentleman too. Not saying you aren't, but being grumpy, harsh, or emotionally absent is another way to shut down your wife. My wife is most available for sex when I've been nice, we've had an enjoyable day together, and when we're emotionally in sync.


Understood and generally I'm pretty jovial.


Hoosier said:


> A good friend of mine, was in the process of a divorce for 4 YEARS.


Won't be an issue. I've made it absolutely crystal clear that this is a HUGE problem and we need to resolve it. I'm not spending 4 years in this situation. We're going to continue communicating and I expect action on both our parts and best effort to try and resolve it.


Girl_power said:


> I think it’s accumulation of things. One thing on its own doesn’t bother us as long as we’re overall happy. Like 25lbs is really no big deal on its own. BUT… when it’s now 25lbs, and never getting an orgasm, and not getting romance and help around the house… all these things add up and it’s like too little too late.


She's been after me for weight issues now for years. So yes, I didn't take it as seriously as I should've evidently. My bad. I am responsible for taking care of myself however if I must maintain a standard beyond healthy in order to keep her interest in the long run - we have a problem. At some point age creeps in. Does that mean when I hit that point at age 55 or whatever she just cuts me off? You can bet that is on my mind and I'm thinking of mentioning it when we next talk.


Girl_power said:


> 39 with no kids? Come on, you know she wants sex. Especially if she’s in good shape and healthy.


She says that birth control had an effect on her libido and that it was happening slowly over a long period of time. She admits to wishing she'd acted on this sooner. She finally got to a point where she was tired of sex typically being a 'chore' and we had that talk where I found out what space she was in. It was not pleasant to hear. Especially since I had thought up to this point, since she was still sometimes climaxing during sex, things were not so bad off. F me for being ignorant.


CatholicDad said:


> I think many confident women aren't going to give detailed instructions on how to make them orgasm especially during the act.


I don't need an instruction manual. Feedback of some kind is welcome.


Hoosier said:


> How by telling your spouse, who use to have sex, seemed to enjoy it, that "you were not going to be celibate the rest of your life and you will be moving on" is somehow telling her you never loved her. uh,,.., ok.


When we've talked so far I've been pretty on point. I absolutely love her and she does not doubt that, I believe. I've also made it known - I did not enter into marriage with her, who I love, to have no sexual intimacy for the rest of my days. I have too much self respect for that.

I am a little curious about frequency. My drive is generally 3-4x per week ideally. Would I be OK with 1x-2x per week if it was a good experience for us? Would it be OK to use porn to fill in the gaps? I'm honestly not sure off-hand. Food for thought.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I’d say get her off birth control, and I’d strongly recommend “Natural Family Planning”. No pills, no condoms, and 99% effective. Her hormones are probably jacked from birth control.

No porn. When frustrated- go lift weights or exercise. If she likes abs... let her have them.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

You can't negotiate genuine desire.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Apparently a lot of women, even after many years, think that oral or digital stimulation is a chore for the husband. If you can truthfully convince her that both acts are actually something you love to do and that it would make you happy if she would accommodate your need for the closeness inherent in those acts, you might be able to move her along. With the right oral technique, you should be able to bring her to orgasm most of the time, maybe even better than 90%. With some women, it's 100%. You have to be patient and never let her feel like she's a bother or a burden. 

If you can get her used to have regular orgasms, the frequency of PIV orgasms will likely increase. How can you tell is she's having an orgasm? Many women's chests will turn bright red during an orgasm. I have no clue how widespread the reaction is, but from what I've read, it is very common and normal. You might want to watch to see if it's really happening for her.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

39? I thought I read you both were older. It is doubtful this is a hormone issue. Being on the Pill for many years I can say that birth control is more than likely not the issues either. I think Girl Power had a good response. Men tend to think that sex is the solution. Sex is great but it is not always the #1 issue to look at. Here is an example to keep in mind and it goes along with what Girl Power mentioned.....marriage is like a savings account, we each add deposits whether that is time spent together, you bought her a special something, perhaps you took her car to the shop for her, or you came up behind her and kissed her neck......all deposits. Then comes the withdrawals and these are the things that have caused hurt. When the balance starts going into the negative there is nothing left to salvage.

More than likely she has told you what she doesn't like....porn use a big hurt for women and she knows you are viewing porn every time she walks out of the room it is a continual negative her brain is being fed. If you continually play video games instead of making dinner together it's another negative. If you want to sit around the house and watch TV (sports games) and never want to get out of the house to do things with her it's a negative. Her only complaint has been your weight? Weight is probably the final dislike, more than likely there are others and finally the lack of attraction due to weight gain. Losing weight alone is probably not the answer. I think you have to get the rest of those deposits in place as well. What is important to her? Time spent together, acts of service, does she need words of admiration, are you able to give her emotional support when she is dealing with a tough family or work situation. More than likely you are not meeting her needs outside of the bedroom as it sounds like she is doing fine in the bedroom. 

Another thing I am going to add here. Do you prime your wife for sex or do you just roll over expecting her to be ready when you are? Men can be ready quickly but not always the case with women. That is why all the stuff outside of the bedroom are important. However, think back to when you guys were dating and you didn't know if you were going to get lucky that night. You guys more than likely were doing some heavy petting in some fashion. She might well need that to get her primed. If you are Mr Vanilla in the bedroom it is far past time to spice things up, try something new....surprise her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

amorous_1 said:


> I am a little curious about frequency. My drive is generally 3-4x per week ideally. Would I be OK with 1x-2x per week if it was a good experience for us? Would it be OK to use porn to fill in the gaps? I'm honestly not sure off-hand. Food for thought.


I can tell you my drive is 1-2x a day. As a compromise initially I was shooting for 1-2x a week and I can tell you that didn’t do it at all.

I have a theory that if the discrepancy in desire versus reality is over 3x the HD will feel bad and the relationship is in crisis. Under 1.75x and there is no crisis and it’s in equilibrium. This theory is based on just a few data points I extracted from deadbedrooms and my own experience and data. This was comparing people that had a base desire of 1+ a day versus what they were able to get.

So by my theory if you want 4x a week you need to be getting 2x and every other week 3x or you will still feel bad.

This level was a high hill to climb for my wife and I coming from a starting difference of 10x desire gap.


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## amorous_1 (Nov 29, 2010)

She says she doesn't masturbate. She doesn't fantasize about sex with other men. She doesn't have the sexual urge to the same extent she used to. She says it started slowly getting this way and got worse over time, once she started on hormonal birth control. She's now off the pill, and she had a copper IUD implanted instead six months back.

She also says she doesn't care about the porn either it's not a problem. I'm not a habitual whacker to it. It's maybe a once a week thing to help get me by in times of crisis like this.

Again, this is all right from her mouth and we've discussed it. If she's not being truthful then that is sabotaging the relationship.

As far as 'priming' her goes I like to give foot and back rubs for one thing which she seems to really like. Often times when we are intimate I'll do that when we get into bed before we have sex. I actually enjoy doing it for her. Beyond that nice meals out, cuddling together on the couch, etc.. I'm open to suggestions on other things that might help, thanks.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

amorous_1 said:


> She says she doesn't masturbate. She doesn't fantasize about sex with other men. She doesn't have the sexual urge to the same extent she used to. She says it started slowly getting this way and got worse over time, once she started on hormonal birth control. She's now off the pill, and she had a copper IUD implanted instead six months back.
> 
> She also says she doesn't care about the porn either it's not a problem. I'm not a habitual whacker to it. It's maybe a once a week thing to help get me by in times of crisis like this.
> 
> ...


You'll never know, and neither will we, how much of what she said is truthful, but I'm willing to bet there is at least one lie in what she has told you. A lot of women never reveal their most personal secrets. Men probably do the same thing.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

I don't know what the solution is ... But I can tell you birth control killed my libido when I took it. So I stopped and my husband used condoms for our childbearing years. I know lots of men think they are marriage so bareback is the only way and the women should use birth control. But birth control changes your hormones. For me it not only killed my libido but changed my personality.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

amorous_1 said:


> She says she doesn't masturbate. She doesn't fantasize about sex with other men. She doesn't have the sexual urge to the same extent she used to. She says it started slowly getting this way and got worse over time, once she started on hormonal birth control. She's now off the pill, and she had a copper IUD implanted instead six months back.
> 
> She also says she doesn't care about the porn either it's not a problem. I'm not a habitual whacker to it. It's maybe a once a week thing to help get me by in times of crisis like this.
> 
> ...


You're putting a lot of faith in what she says. Many women simply aren't going to show their sexual hand no matter how many times you ask or how you phrase the question. 99% chance she DOES masturbate at times. 99% chance she DOES have fantasies. And 99.99999% you spanking alone in the dark to porn DOES lessen her respect and there for her attraction and desire for you. 


As some of the other posters have stated, your talking too much and doing too little. 

Some women get turned on by sexy talk and openly discussing sexy topics. 

Many do not. Especially if there is already an issue with attraction/desire or significant disparity in libido. Bringing it as a discussion point often just makes it a point of contention and makes her feel pressured. When you reach that state in a relationship, simply asking where she might like to go for dinner can trigger her to think you are asking her just to get in her knickers. 

I agree with @Ragnar Ragnasson above. DO. Don't talk. Do what you want you want to try. She will either allow it, dig it, or reject it. 

If she is stiffening up and squirming away from you or telling you to stop, then stop, shift gears and start doing something else. 

If she outright rejects you. Don't whine, pout, complain or interrogate her on what's wrong. 

If she rejects you enough or doesn't ever want to do anything that you'd like to do and never comes into your frame and never makes any attempt to meet you part way - then she is not into you and you have your answer.


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## CatOnAHotTinRoof (Apr 27, 2021)

amorous_1 said:


> When my wife (39) and I (45) met and fell in love it was your usual scenario. Sex was frequent and satisfying. 13 years later, she wants nothing to do with me. Sex is now a 'chore' and that is exactly how she characterizes it. She confessed this to me late last year, that she has been going through the motions and doing it to please me. She doesn't want to do that any more. I feel that this is mainly if not entirely my fault. Posting this to get my thoughts out and vent. It's probably nothing we haven't seen here before. The affect from this has been crushing to my confidence in myself and the marriage.
> 
> We met on myspace and my picture caught her eye. At the time I was fit and lifting weights regularly. I was a relatively cut up 160 lbs. I kept that up for a while, years, but eventually blew my arms out in the gym by being a stubborn moron and working through an injury. Due to that permanent problem serious weight lifting is not possible any more. I began to let things slowly slide and have put on roughly 25 lbs. I'm 5'8, 185. This has hurt my wife's physical attraction for me. The quality of sex hasn't really changed much however to be fair I'm a C+ at best and always have been. For whatever reason, that was fine in the beginning. Efforts to improve that have failed on my part. Compounding things, she went on hormonal birth control when we got married and feels it has damaged her libido possibly to the point it may be unrecoverable. She went off hormonal birth control over six months ago now and there has been no improvement in her interest for me. We've had talks and she says she does not self-pleasure nor does she have any interest in other men. She still finds some men interesting and attractive on some level but she does not feel any significant sexual frustration or desires currently.
> 
> ...


I’m sure it was mentioned but my husband and I had this problem. He’s gained weight, I gained weight and that wasn’t the problem. The problem was multiple factors. 
First I lost interest because he lost interest in making any sort of effort OUTSIDE of the bedroom. He stopped paying attention to me unless he wanted sex. Then he thought it was enough to just initiate it in the bedroom. No thought of actually making me feel special outside of it. No matter how much I discussed the need to feel wanted or attractive outside of the bedroom, came to deaf ears. So I stopped being interested - it did feel like a chore as it was only about him and his needs to mine. This made it just get worse and longer without it and grew us apart. After awhile, it became with not him again but turned into what was wrong with me. 

Secondly, now that I’m around your wife’s age, my libido has dried out because I wasn’t having my needs met and I became less interested. Finally went to a doctor. No, my hormones are just fine. It’s that I wasn’t made to feel special. However my thyroid did stop working which could have been a large part in my even deeper disinterest. I’ll never really know because.......
MY husband had an emotional affair because he wasn’t feeling that I was attracted to him. He thought he gained to much weight and I lost interest. Not because he didn’t make any effort to show me attention. So it went around and around. The emotional affair was discovered by me which was a double betrayal at the same time I went to the doctors and got meds towards my thyroid. Once discovered, he said he wanted us, not this person. I knew I wanted him but not who he became. It jolted our marriage so this is what happened.
I took the thyroid meds at the same time that he put the real actual effort into our marriage. He started dating me again. Giving me real attention with compliments, love, dating, affection, flirting with me throughout the day, small gifts of appreciation doing allll the things I begged of him in previous years that he did the first years in our marriage. He made efforts. He had a challenge to keep me so he changed to keep me. It’s not rocket science. In the course of this, I was debating still to keep him because I loved him or throw him to the curb, but his actions made me become more attracted. This then turned our sex life around. I felt wanted so in return he did because I reciprocated his attention. Our sex life has been awesome since. He’s happy, I’m happy and all it took was attention, appreciation and affection outside of the bedroom. 
Third, once we got our sex life back in order, we both realized how much we wanted our overall marriage to work. How broken it was. So we did a few things to understand and fix it. We communicated- really communicated. Started by reading and taking the 7 languages of love quiz. We both realized we spoke to languages and what I thought he needed, he didn’t and vice versa. That was eye opening and we talked talked about it but also did the work. Then we got a workbook called saving your marriage before it starts. Recommended to us by a marriage counselor friend. We are still doing the homework out of the books, but Holy Moly, it’s hard but awesome. We have seriously reconnected. We talk like never before - honestly and WE LISTEN. His change has made me lose weight, made him lose weight - doing it for one another because we both feel sexy and want to please. Now we try new things in the bedroom and have so much fun and laugh at each other. We do things together all the time now. We see each other with new eyes. Blame games are over.
I would recommend instead of looking how to “flick” the bean, try giving your wife true attention and appreciation. Then if you see a difference in her attitude, have a real conversation about what she wants, if she wants to save the marriage. Try the quiz, the workbooks and then ask her if she wants to get her blood level checked if she’s still having issues in the bedroom - offer her that you would go with. But first do the true work, try it a month and see. You may be very surprised and jump start your marriage. It worked for us. My husbands emotional affair was a sad way to jump start us, but we honestly were so deep down the rabbit hole that we didn’t know how to climb out until we realized we could be without each other. Don’t let it get that far if you really love her.


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