# Exposing Emotional Affair - should I?



## Colorado Chris (Jun 3, 2012)

Without going into too much detail, basically the wifey has been
having an emotional affair for about 2 months now and we have been fighting back and forth as a result, severly straining the fragile marriage.

I've probably uncovered the 3rd secret e-mail account she's made (the other two she deleted and promised to not make any more) so she can chat with her coworker (while at work) with whom she's having the EA. 

I'm this close to exposing it to all her other coworkers (who she says have looked at her weird because her and this guy at work have been a little two friendly, always talking and in lunch room taking breaks together, etc.).

My question is, should I facebook message all her coworkers on facebook as a last ditch effort to embarass her so she stays away from this guy and gets on another shift (hopefully then her EA fog dissapates)? I do realize this could get her in trouble and she could be called into her HR and potentially fired. But I am at my wits end with the lying and we are in limbo as far as marriage or divorce is concerned and she pulls 180's everyday on whether she wants to stay married or divorced. Yet she seems unwilling to cut this emotional tie to this person (at least she says she will handle it by avoiding him). Yet I keep uncovering more and more lies throughout my investigation. Please help, we do plan to see a marriage counselor, but during fights she said she would only go 'for closure'. A divorce seems inevitable but I don't want to go down without a fight. I think by exposing her (which has been suggested by many on this website) I can at least wake up in the morning with my honor and make a final attempt to cut the EA myself before it gets worse.

Thanks,
Chris


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## KayEffe (Jun 2, 2012)

Chris, it's understandable that you're frustrated with the situation, anyone with a soul would be, but I think you'll have a better chance of waking up in the morning with your honor if you take the high road in this situation. By exposing her to everyone you'll just be adding more fuel to the fire and giving your wife reason to get you back, which might turn into an ugly cycle as you try to get her back again, and so on and so forth.
My suggestion is to do the adult thing and play your part as the honorable, faithful husband. Some day down the line, when you look back, you won't want to have any regrets for your actions. 

But regardless of what you end up doing, just make sure you think it through.

Best wishes,
Kay


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## Colorado Chris (Jun 3, 2012)

Kay,

Thanks so much for your quick response. You're right, at least my logical and rational side agrees with you. Of course, I'm being tormented by my emotional side and vindictive side. I'm going hold off for now with anything rash and I'm going to keep quiet about this recent hidden email to see what else I uncover. I hate to be deceptive but if I continue to confront her, she will only get more clever and go underground with her deceit. Sticky situation I only thought other people were effected by. To think a few months ago I never knew what a damn EA was. Ah well, such is life.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

She needs to quit her job immediately. I assume that would be Monday. This is required for her to go through withdrawal from him. She needs to go complete NC with him. That includes blocking him on FB.

Since you mention additional email accounts this is now not just an inappropriate relationship but an unfaithful situation. 

So you need to not argue at all with her, but to tell her that this behavior is unacceptable and you will not live in an opne marriage.

If she does not quit her job and cutoff all contact with this guy then you need to expose to her work HR. Also if you have mutual friends you should enlist their help as well. 

Who is this guy? You should seek to expose him to his wife or GF as well. 

Exposure works when you are in the situation tou have. It is the adult responsible thing to do. The marriage needs to be the #1 responsbility. She is in a workplace EA. You did not cause this. She did. So you are on firm ground to protect the marriage.

You also need to see a lawyer. The key to EAs is to stop them if possible early on. Time is against you. They can also go to a PA in no time at all.

You are going to have to force her to make a choice between you and the OM. The longer you wait the more likely she will choose the OM.

1) Contact a lawyer
2) Tell your wife this is unacceptable and she must go NC immediately with the OM
3) When she does not then expose to the company HR and to the OMs significant other
4) Enlist friends, exposing the affair.


Note that I did not say to broadcast a message on FB. However, it would be very helpful to find at least one of her co-workers that you can expose to. They probably already know. 

If you hae been arguing about this for a long time, and without her breaking contact then you have lost all that time. You must have real urgency. Do not give her time or space. No tearful good byes either.

By the way the honorable thing to do is to stop the affair your wife is in. There is no honor in being disrecpeted. Do not be passive here. Use any an all methods to save your marriage. As they say all is fair in love and war.


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## Trojan John (Sep 30, 2011)

Terrible advice that. If you let her continue on things will only get worse. Taking the 'high road' will end with you in a divorce just as certainly as doing nothing. Affairs thrive in the dark so expose her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Colorado Chris said:


> Kay,
> 
> Thanks so much for your quick response. You're right, at least my logical and rational side agrees with you. Of course, I'm being tormented by my emotional side and vindictive side. I'm going hold off for now with anything rash and I'm going to keep quiet about this recent hidden email to see what else I uncover. I hate to be deceptive but if I continue to confront her, she will only get more clever and go underground with her deceit. Sticky situation I only thought other people were effected by. To think a few months ago I never knew what a damn EA was. Ah well, such is life.


If you have enough evidence that there is an EA then stop the affair now. Every day and even hour you wait the affair deepens. I understand about collecting evidence and so on. But if you know there is an EA already you will eventually find evidence of cheating. You may be able to head that off before it happens. The fact she is resisting you is the biggest evidence.
You have to ask yourself, why do you need more evidence?


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## Colorado Chris (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks for the advice Entropy and Trojan,

I wasn't simply going to post the EA situation on her fb but to manually send it to her fellow coworkers (40-50 people) so there is no way she prevent the message from going out. There is definitely an EA going on and I think the 'fog' has been so deep that she is stalling the marriage to see what happens with this person, plus she seems to air more on the side of divorce. 

This guy is a divorcee with two children. She wasn't even attracted to the guy but they sat next to eachother for several months and he would flatter her, give her sob stories about how his ex wife beats their kids (he's very clever and has manipulated her). She even thinks he has some kind of spell on her. (I guess they would call her the 'rescuer' in this kind of EA).

Apparently they got into a fight a few weeks ago on chat because she thinks he has a gf or ex still living with him and he wasn't honest about it. I told her she is probably just a side project for him...In any event, I can't find any evidence if he does have a gf or not...But she admits that when we have been fighting, the OM has been trying to pressure her to leave the marriage, etc. 

As for her quitting her job, she won't do that. She is studying to get out of there (even before the EA) but she makes good money and splits the mortgage with me, plus the job market isn't so good these days. I don't think a lawyer is necessary since we've talked about a divorce, she would leave me the house as she knows this whole stress on the marriage was her doing. I'm deep with her family and they support me more than her! 


I have told her either stay with me or go with him. She says it was never a matter of choosing, bla bla. She admits it was an EA and that she is getting better since she hasn't seen him at work for 2-3 weeks because of him being on vacation.....Even still, she is sending mixed messages. One day she wants to have her freedom and live on her own (like a mid life crisis) and and the next day says the OM has brought the worse out of her and she wants to make the marriage work. I'm at my wits end with her but at the same time I dread the thought of being alone indefinitely. Of course, I won't be in an open marriage and she knows that. My family is from another state so I would either deal with the depression where I live now or say screw it and move back to home state. Sucks because I'm really close with her family and her dad especially has been trying to get her to wake the ef up. It's a complete and utter mess.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

Have you told her dad and her family about the EA? Probably a good idea to expose it there. Also, Are you sure its an EA and not a PA yet?

Doesn't look like she is owning up to anything or has any feelings of guilt or remorse. Probably she has planned her next moves after the divorce or she is taking you too lightly. Either case why do you want to stay with her? I think you should be the one talking about divorce if she is not taking you and the marriage seriously. Probably she needs a wake up call in case she is taking you for granted.


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## Colorado Chris (Jun 3, 2012)

eowyn said:


> Have you told her dad and her family about the EA? Probably a good idea to expose it there. Also, Are you sure its an EA and not a PA yet?
> 
> Doesn't look like she is owning up to anything or has any feelings of guilt or remorse. Probably she has planned her next moves after the divorce or she is taking you too lightly. Either case why do you want to stay with her? I think you should be the one talking about divorce if she is not taking you and the marriage seriously. Probably she needs a wake up call in case she is taking you for granted.


Check my last post, I'm in tight with her folks and they are trying to talk sense into her. I'm pretty sure it hasn't gone PA as I did catch it early EA and it was flirting and not serious yet. But I do think it could have a good chance to go PA if I don't continue taking action (I think she is just caught in the fog and it may get worse before it gets better). She said that if she felt it was going that far she would sign a divorce asap. She's a ball of mixed emotions. I think guilt may be the only thing keeping her around, recently she has said, "I don't want to destroy your life or my family's" (since her family loves me so much). Then again some days she indicates she wants to work it out and the OM is bringing the worse out of her....

In interesting side note, a few weeks ago when she gave me warning signs by saying 'oh you can go on a date with someone, I feel bad what i have put you through'. I called her bluff and called a girl who use to like me (but I was with current wife) and then she (wife) left the house, came back crying, saying how I sounded so happy talking to this girl and that she realized how close she is in losing me and will cut off tie to the OM. I didn't want to cheat back so what she said gave me hope...until the lastest email I've uncovered. That's why I feel maybe I should just expose her and hopefully her HR gets involved, while I don't want to get her in trouble, I don't want her to ruin my life if she has plans with OM after the divorce (which I believe she does).

Entropy, I have access to all her known accounts. On FB the OM is blocked and unfriended. I caught her a few days ago unblocking him and we had a fight. She said after their 'chat fight' she wanted to see if he would contact her about it. Like I said, she's in the fog and this EA is a drug for her, the more I try and take it away the more dependent she is. I am close to divorcing her myself, I'm becoming more and more emotionally numb each and everyday. 

P.S. When I found the last hidden email account (2 weeks ago) I told her that was the last straw, then she broke down crying, promising to switch shifts so she wouldnt have to see this guy, etc. I told her too little too late. She kept pleading and giving me hope she would end this EA. :/ I'm hoping to hack this latest email account before I expose her. I have accused her falsely a few times throughout all this (like an outgoing phone number that wasn't the OM) but 90% she was busted red handed.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Colorado Chris said:


> Thanks for the advice Entropy and Trojan,
> 
> I wasn't simply going to post the EA situation on her fb but to manually send it to her fellow coworkers (40-50 people) so there is no way she prevent the message from going out. There is definitely an EA going on and I think the 'fog' has been so deep that she is stalling the marriage to see what happens with this person, plus she seems to air more on the side of divorce.
> 
> ...


There is no excuse for her not to quit. A mortgage is of no use to either of you if she stays in an affair. She cannot stop the affair as long as she keeps seeing him. Sorry but that is the truth. She can find another job. Either the marriage is #1 or something else is. If the mortgage is #1 then tell me what good that will be when your wife is actievly having sex with this guy because that is where this is going.

I was in an EA and left my job. This was a serious highly paid job and I was the major bread winner. I got another job because my marriage was the most important thing.

The reason for exposing at her work is for her to change jobs. It will not be enough to stop the affair without her leaving.

Life is full of tough choices. She either goes full NC with this guy or you can pretty say good bye to your marriage after being completely torn apart.

It took me six weeks to go through withdrawal. Realize that as soon as she sees him for five minutes agian the timer starts over from the start.

If she will not go NC with him a lawayer is required. Otherwise you are just accepting the affair. 

Seriously you may have an opportunity to stop this but you are not willing to do what it takes yet. This is a very small windoe of opportunity. The only thing that matters now is her going NC with thei guy. No one else matters. The idea is to use the lawyer and threat of divorce to get her to go NC. Without NC you basically fail.

You should contact HR directly.

Do not play games with interest in other women. She will that as justification for her affair.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Colorado Chris said:


> Check my last post, I'm in tight with her folks and they are trying to talk sense into her. I'm pretty sure it hasn't gone PA as I did catch it early EA and it was flirting and not serious yet. But I do think it could have a good chance to go PA if I don't continue taking action (I think she is just caught in the fog and it may get worse before it gets better). She said that if she felt it was going that far she would sign a divorce asap. She's a ball of mixed emotions. I think guilt may be the only thing keeping her around, recently she has said, "I don't want to destroy your life or my family's" (since her family loves me so much). Then again some days she indicates she wants to work it out and the OM is bringing the worse out of her....
> 
> In interesting side note, a few weeks ago when she gave me warning signs by saying 'oh you can go on a date with someone, I feel bad what i have put you through'. I called her bluff and called a girl who use to like me (but I was with current wife) and then she (wife) left the house, came back crying, saying how I sounded so happy talking to this girl and that she realized how close she is in losing me and will cut off tie to the OM. I didn't want to cheat back so what she said gave me hope...until the lastest email I've uncovered. That's why I feel maybe I should just expose her and hopefully her HR gets involved, while I don't want to get her in trouble, I don't want her to ruin my life if she has plans with OM after the divorce (which I believe she does).
> 
> ...


I know what I am talking about here. I have been through it. She must go NC. She will backslide. Changing shifts is not going to doing it. They will see each other.

This is an addiction. It takes tough love. Promises mean nothing. Only action. Only total NC. You are doing right to monitor. This not easy. But it sounds like you have a chance.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

how did you find the 3rd email account? I suggest a keylogger if you don't have one yet


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## Peachy Cat (Apr 15, 2012)

She's admitting to fights about whether her EA has a live in gf? She's rubbing your face in it!

Expose to end the EA, see what you're left with and whether it is enough to save the marriage.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Sending an FB to all her coworkers will not make her look stupid.

It will make you look stupid. And HR will not fire her, but they will very likely reprimand her for YOUR disruptive actions.

Deal with her EA directly, but leave all her other coworkers out of it.

(Yes, I will get flamed for this, but after over 30 years in the workplace, I've seen plenty of these things go wrong. Looking like a crazed controlling stalker rarely gets results, even if you are in the right.)


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

KayEffe said:


> Chris, it's understandable that you're frustrated with the situation, anyone with a soul would be, but I think you'll have a better chance of waking up in the morning with your honor if you take the high road in this situation. By exposing her to everyone you'll just be adding more fuel to the fire and giving your wife reason to get you back, which might turn into an ugly cycle as you try to get her back again, and so on and so forth.
> My suggestion is to do the adult thing and play your part as the honorable, faithful husband. Some day down the line, when you look back, you won't want to have any regrets for your actions.
> 
> But regardless of what you end up doing, just make sure you think it through.
> ...


Really? Had I taken that road, my husband and I would have drifted further and further apart. I'm glad it was exposed. Just as I am glad MY EA was exposed. Sitting back and just waiting, playing the "part as the honorable, faithful husband" won't get her to see what she is doing is wrong. If anything, it shows her the opposite. I guarantee that she will think he just doesn't care about her or the marriage if he takes the "wait and see" approach instead of action.


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## Chelle D (Nov 30, 2011)

Exposing the EA & talking to her, the OM, her family... some close friends.. etc, is completely different than shaming her the way you want to thru facebook messages.

I realize you are hurting & want a type of revenge, but seriously? to get her potentially fired? If you DO end up divorced, do you want her to be able to support herself? Or do you care if she has to live off your income forever?


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

The bottom line issue is that your wife is deeply infatuated. Those feelings will not end unless she leaves her job.

I would expose to HR or an administrative person. These two people are undoubtedly wasting office resources engaging in these shenanigans. They are also likely violating office policies against fraternization (to say nothing of her being married).

Our company would have cracked down on them.

The other co-workers don't have any control over the situation. It needs to be someone who has authority.

But the net effect is the same, she will have to leave her job for this to truly end. She has opened up her heart to this person, whether she will admit it or not. The fantasy is powerful enough that it creates a strong compulsion (like a very bad habit) that she will not break as long as she remains in contact with him.

Get a copy of the book, Not Just Friends, a link to excerpts on google books is in my signature.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Expose!!! Do it first thing in the morning. Wait no longer. Marriage or job, that's the choice.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

You have a way of contacting her friends and coworkers so yes select a few and send them a Facebook message , do so in a way that you are asking for their help in protecting your marriage , mention the OM by name use the words affair and adultery. If you have access to his Facebook page launch a full exposure to as many as you can get to and pull no punches. Find out how to contact his parents, siblings and ex wife , FYI: OM's are often divorced verify this is true and not an attempt to throw you off.

Contact their HR and let them know of the affair. Your wife will not stop the affair with you doing nothing you can however make it extemly uncomfortable and unrewarding for them to continue.

Your job is to force the OM out of the picture , to get your wife to leave her job and protect your marriage .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

There are templates in the thread below

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Before you start contacting their HR department you may consider the options of the other guy. He could, for example, publish on the internet, pictures and movies you may not know he has. You may need to be careful who you play hardball with. I, for one, wouldn't be someone you'd want to d*ck around with. Don't open a door you may not be able to close. Blaming the other guy for your wife's situation is a losers game. If she's vulnerable, you may need to examine that aspect.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

In case your concerned about the work exposure take a different view on it; your wife will have to leave her job if your marriage is to have any chance or recovery, she is not ashamed to carry on and have an affair with a coworker therefore any exposure you do should not bring shame or embarrassment to her . If she or others claim your exposure is causing her to break away from you tell them rubbish it's her ongoing deceit, lies and adultery that is causing the issues .

Assume your marriage is finished and you have nothing more to lose therefore steps you take now can only be positive , make this affair public knowledge . If she remains in the marriage she is going to have to ditch her coworkers thus there is no harm in damaging her reputation at work, your telling the truth and fighting for your marriage.

Your words must be such that you are not sounding vindictive , your a husband trying to save his marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Sending an FB to all her coworkers will not make her look stupid.
> 
> It will make you look stupid. And HR will not fire her, but they will very likely reprimand her for YOUR disruptive actions.
> 
> ...


Although a consensual affair in an office that doesn't have a fraternization policy may not legally rise to the level of creating a hostile work environment that would be enough for a sexual harassment suit, the WS is telling her husband that the co-workers are clearly uncomfortable and distracted by their behavior.

At all the many companies I worked at, we didn't have the luxury of tolerating this sort of behavior. In today's economy, there are people lined up 10 deep or more in some cases to take a good job. The last company I worked for would let people go for the slightest reason. They had more important things to do, like making money, than to tolerate people making googly eyes at each other, going off for long lunch breaks, and messaging each other throughout the day.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

iheartlife said:


> The bottom line issue is that your wife is deeply infatuated. Those feelings will not end unless she leaves her job.
> 
> I would expose to HR or an administrative person. These two people are undoubtedly wasting office resources engaging in these shenanigans. They are also likely violating office policies against fraternization (to say nothing of her being married).
> 
> ...


This is intended to put pressure on her to leave the job. It is all about exposure. Affairs thive on secrecy.

If one makes a decision that her job is more important than the marriage then it is. 

Never not act to save your marriage out of fear of what people will think about you. That is beyond weak. Her coworkers may already know about the affair and been told you are an awful person. 

Do not decide not to expose because of anything to do with support after a divorce. That is a defeatest attitude. This is about trying to save the marriage. If she refuses to break contact you must do all you can do to blow it up. Not exposing is enabling the affair. Blowing up the affair is the only thing that has a chance to stop it. Waiting is enabling. Her not going NC is her chosing the OM over you. 

A job is a job. We have many of these in our lives. They come and go. For many people marriage is a commitment for life. For others marriage comes and goes. Never put a job ahead of your marriage.

You do not do something only when it is garanteed. You try all you can to expose and put pressure on the affair. Sometimes it is the cumulative pressure of several things that works. Exposing their work affair is the thing to do. No matter the HR policy it what is required. If she gets fired then she has no excuse to hangout with the OM. Otherwise she does. She will find another job. If you just flat need the money then you are trading your wife for the money. But you lose her money anyways when she leaves for him.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Eli-Zor said:


> In case your concerned about the work exposure take a different view on it; your wife will have to leave her job if your marriage is to have any chance or recovery, she is not ashamed to carry on and have an affair with a coworker therefore any exposure you do should not bring shame or embarrassment to her . If she or others claim your exposure is causing her to break away from you tell them rubbish it's her ongoing deceit, lies and adultery that is causing the issues .
> 
> *Assume your marriage is finished and you have nothing more to lose therefore steps you take now can only be positive* , make this affair public knowledge . If she remains in the marriage she is going to have to ditch her coworkers thus there is no harm in damaging her reputation at work, your telling the truth and fighting for your marriage.
> 
> ...


This is assumption is correct. It sounds like the EA is deep now.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You may lose your marriage no matter what you do. If you really want to save your marriage, better to pull out all the stops then to have regrets later on that you could have done more but didn't.

She is not quitting this addiction on her own. I would refrain from exposing directly to the coworkers. It will be counterproductive and won't be looked upon kindly by the company's management, who are the ones who can really help you break up this affair. The coworkers mostly all know or suspect it anyway, they are powerless to stop it. Management might know about it also and may not be happy about it but are hesitant at this point to get involved. When they get a written complaint about it from you, they will take action. Your wife and the other man most likely will not be fired but they may be put on separate shifts and otherwise kept away from each other during work hours. Assuming other man needs the job, that should stop his pursuit of your wife. After he throws her under the bus, she will see him for what he is.

You have to expose directly to the company's management, if the company is not a major corporation, I say expose to HR and to the company's president/CEO. Do it in writing. State who you are, who your wife is, that she is having a workplace romance with one of her coworkers, name the coworker, state that they are doing so on company time with secret email accounts, give a few specifics that they can check if possible. Ask them to put a stop to it, tell them that they should not foster a toxic work environment where marriages are destroyed.

If your initial complaint yields no result, send a more strongly worded letter telling them that you may contact an attorney to explore what options are available to you as far as instituting a lawsuit for alienation of affection. It doesn't matter if you actually have a legal leg to stand on, they will take care of their employees' misbehavior rather than suffer the time and effort involved in defending a lawsuit, even one they think they can win.

Do not tell your wife you are doing this. After you do it, expect her to tell you that she hates you and she was about to come back to you and choose you but now you blew it forever and she will never come back to you. You must stand firm at this point and tell her you are fighting for her and you are fighting for your marriage. Do not back down, apologize, beg, or plead. She WILL storm out and leave. She WILL be back.

WARNING: She may also run to the other man's house and make the affair physical at this point, if the other man isn't too scared of losing his job.

After the initial blowup, if the other man throws her under the bus, which is likely, she will come back to you to work on the marriage. Why you would want to bother is your decision, but this course of action will give you your best chance at it. It is most likely to break up the affair and display the other man's faults, show her that he does not love her as deeply as he has been professing.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

From experience ; when two waywards work for seperate companies or within a large organisation that does not give time for face to face interaction the exposure to the HR team and respective heads is the way forward however , again from experience, in an environment where they see each other regularly then a dual Hr , bosses and select coworkers exposure has been the most effective way of damaging the affair particularly since she will have to leave her job. The words chosen for the exposure to coworkers has to be requesting support not vindictive.

Overall the advice we are giving you is inform the company 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Before you start contacting their HR department you may consider the options of the other guy. He could, for example, publish on the internet, pictures and movies you may not know he has. You may need to be careful who you play hardball with. I, for one, wouldn't be someone you'd want to d*ck around with. Don't open a door you may not be able to close. Blaming the other guy for your wife's situation is a losers game. If she's vulnerable, you may need to examine that aspect.


He should not care about this. Only the marrige. He should be the guy that the OM did not f^ck with. I am that guy for sure. This is about blowing up the affair. The OM is trying to take his wife. He is culpable. His wife is the problem. But the OM needs to be dealt with. He was dumb enough to be in a workplace affair. But any negative that hits the OM is is simply a side benefit and not the point. It is to blowup the affair.

Oh yeah a man should really be afarid of upsetting the OM who is trying to bang his wife.  Let the other man show the movies if he has them. It just proves the OP was too late. It also would prove the wife that the OM is a creep. So that would be all good. Bring it.

Again more fear talk. A man acts and does what he needs to do when it comes to this stuff. Do not be submissive to the OM.

Blowup the affair. Nothing else matters. Go to HR.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> He should not care about this. Only the marrige. He should be the guy that the OM did not f^ck with. I am that guy for sure. This is about blowing up the affair. The OM is trying to take his wife. He is culpable. His wife is the problem. But the OM needs to be dealt with. He was dumb enough to be in a workplace affair. But any negative that hits the OM is is simply a side benefit and not the point. It is to blowup the affair.
> 
> Oh yeah a man should really be afarid of upsetting the OM who is trying to bang his wife.
> 
> Again more fear talk. A man acts and does what he needs to do when it comes to this stuff. Do not be submissive to the OM.


Exactly. The only pics or videos I could even remotely see as a problem are any of his wife. And, if she was stupid enough to send the OM any pics, or videos, then she's the one who will be embarrassed. Chris can hold his head up, regardless. His wife got into this, it's on her. Again, this is *IF* she did these things. No matter what, Chris has no reason to be concerned what the OM has or does not have.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She's operating with a junkie mind. You need to go nuclear with this ASAP if you wants the fog to clear. I don't know about universal /work exposure including HR but I'd put the REALITY (of lossing you) right in front of her face, force her to make a final decisive choice, so call and cut MC, file and serve her at work, separate finances, pull the strongest 180 - dark silence you can gather, apologize to ILs saying you did all you could, pack her things in trash bags and call OM to get her stuff and bring her to his place. Then call some gossiper-coworker you know and tell her/him not to bother to stop protecting her about the news. Make it all about reality of her choices, she needs to feel all the consequences HARD and FAST. You have one last chance to end it but you need to make it all perfecty REAL even if it's sinclude her going to OM for one/few days. By then maybe you give a sh!t about her nad she'd become OM's problem.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

An extract from another pro marriage site : 


"
Infidelity is a violation of the most basic condition of marriage. In most wedding vows, “forsaking all others,” is the only real promise that’s made. When you marry, the overriding condition that is mutually accepted is that you won’t have an affair. When that condition is broken, the marriage is threatened at its very core. That’s why spouses who have recovered after an affair should make new vows to each other, in effect reestablishing their marriage.

So when a betrayed spouse asks for advice, the position taken is that infidelity is the greatest betrayal of all. After an affair, trust -- an essential ingredient in marriage -- is dashed. If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. From experience exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."



In your case there is no reason to hold back , your wife's coworkers probably suspect, know and your wife may be gas lighting you to them.

Your marriage can survive her anger, her embarrassment , her shame it cannot survive the presense of the OM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Also, as far as marriage counseling:

as I already suggested, get the book Not Just Friends ASAP.

If you go to MC, you need to do your research and make sure they are pro-marriage and trained in infidelity. Use the book Not Just Friends as a litmus test, it was written by a nationally recognized researcher in infidelity and is a soup to nuts explanation of how affairs start, function, and end. Ask your counselor if they've read it and if not (and you don't have other good options) hand them a copy.

Our excellent MC pulled his copy of the shelf for my husband to read (I was already familiar with the book).

MC is worthless if there are 3 people in the marriage, however. She would in all likelihood have to be out of contact with the OM for as much as 6 to 8 weeks for the strong effects of their attraction to wear off. They are not "in love," because love is an emotion you have for someone in a relationship that has been tested by the trials of real life. Infatuation, on the other hand, is all about avoiding conflict, finding your supposed commonalities, and endless affirmation and validation. 

MC is HARD WORK. It requires the two parties to bare their souls and expose their vulnerabilities to each other. Fantasies are a ton of fun and way more fun than MC. She has every motivation to maintain the fantasy and to string you along. She is yanking you back and forth because she wants to have her cake and eat it too, the security of marriage to someone she took life-long vows to remain faithful to, while the fun and frolic of a BF on the side.

My own painful first-hand knowledge involves 6+ months of my husband secretly maintaining his affair while we went to MC. That MC, while expensive and well-respected, never once asked my husband if he was still in contact nor did he suggest that I verify NC nor did he ask my husband the hard questions of why he thought it was appropriate to breach marital boundaries by becoming involved with someone outside of our marriage.

Our marriage only got back on track, and made leaps and bounds in improvement via MC (to where it's the best it's ever been) once the AP was entirely out of the picture.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

Colorado Chris said:


> Apparently they got into a fight a few weeks ago on chat because *she thinks he has a gf or ex still living with him *and he wasn't honest about it. I told her she is probably just a side project for him...In any event, I can't find any evidence if he does have a gf or not...


Looks like she is almost in a "committed" relationship with this other guy. Why else would the existence of a gf/ex bother her so much. She probably perceives it as "cheating". That is the reason I asked "are you sure its not PA yet?"



Colorado Chris said:


> But she admits that when we have been fighting, the OM has been trying to pressure her to leave the marriage, etc.


And yet she continues to stay in contact with him!!!! :bsflag:



Colorado Chris said:


> I'm at my wits end with her but at the same time I dread the thought of being alone indefinitely.


Let that not be a reason to tolerate this non sense. You got to put your foot down and give her an ultimatum. And if she doesn't listen ... ask yourself if you really want to continue taking this and stay with her? 

With respect to exposing her on FB, I think it you are considering working it out with her, this would be a bad move. It can get her in trouble and she will loose any interest to get back with you. It could get ugly. However, in my opinion you can contact the other guy and give him a piece of your mind. Tell him who the H is and ask him to stay away from your W. You might want to tell him that you are capable of exposing HIM if he doesn't leave your wife alone.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> Oh yeah a man should really be afarid of upsetting the OM who is trying to bang his wife.


And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that. Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations. They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". She is digging the excitement. Hence, if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means she doesn't love you.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that. Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations. They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". She is digging the excitement. Hence, if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means she doesn't love you.


It's not about blaming it on the OM.

It's about getting the spouse to exit THIS affair so that quality marriage counseling and individual counseling can occur.

You could dump your current cheating spouse and move on. But if you contributed to vulnerabilities in the marriage, you're taking your problems with you.

You could try to go to MC while the affair is on. Anyone who would like to do this, I can send you my paypal account where you can deposit the money for several months' sessions of MC, rather than go to MC--because the effect will be precisely the same.

Break up the affair--as I did with my husband--and then MC can truly be insightful and the marriage can vastly improve and yes, be happy again.

edited to say, of course everyone doesn't get the fairytale ending (me either) but if the OP wants to try for R, then they should get that chance.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Fvstringpicker said:


> And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that. Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations. They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". She is digging the excitement. Hence, if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means she doesn't love you.


Dude. Stop it. This is not about fear. It is about taking the steps to save his marriage. Her AP is not his friend. He owes him nothing but pain. He cannot work on the relationship while the affair goes on.

They are both culpable. Not sure why some folks are always defending predators.

It does take an understanding of EAs.

I am actually being very nice about this on this forum. Forum guidelines.
Trust me in real life I would be all pale horse with this guy. This does not take blame from the wife however. Would I take her back? I don't know. I have tighter boundaries than most here. Life has taught me this. But I would not put up with this for another minute. I would blow it up and sort it out afterwards. On my terms. All carnage is on the affair partners.

Oh and if there is a next OM. She is history. In fact if this is more than an EA, I would not R personally. The intent is to stop it from going on to a PA.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> *And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that.*


I would hope the humiliation of having been exposed to everyone: friends, family, co-workers, would be enough to keep my spouse from doing it again. Had my first EA been exposed to everyone, instead of my husband rug-sweeping, I don't believe I would have become involved in another EA. No, I can't speak for certain, but I believe that to be true.



> *Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations.*


Same can be said for women attacking the OM. However, as much as it hurt that a woman I believed to be a friend made a play for my husband, I blame him for letting her continue it. I blame him for taking our marital woes to her instead of talking to me about them. And, yes, I blame myself for doing the exact same damn thing to him. Tho the EA partners knew we were married, they still went in for the kill. They exploited our vulnerabilities. Yes, I know, we were willing participants, but I don't believe any of it would have happened had we just spoken with each other about our problems instead of going outside the marriage, seeking help from those who didn't have our best interests in mind.



> They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". *She is digging the excitement.*


Yes, she is. I know the attention I was craving from my husband was lacking. So, I accepted the attention of other men. All online, never in real life. It was very exciting to have someone tell me I was beautiful, that I was a sweetheart, etc. I wasn't getting that from my husband. I'm not saying this is the case with Chris (the original poster), but that is how *I* was feeling when I went thru this. It is a high, much like a drug. She feels euphoric. Someone finds her beautiful. It is VERY exciting.



> Hence, *if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems* than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means *she doesn't love you.*


Yes, there are bigger problems. The OM is just a symptom of those problems. And they need to work that out, if they want any chance of fixing their marriage, they need to get to the root of the problem. 

About the not loving tho... you are saying I don't love my husband. And that couldn't be further from the truth. I love that man more than anything. I was stupid. I didn't cope well with diagnoses he received. It was all on me, yes. But if I didn't love my husband, there is no way we could be working things out NOW. And the same goes for him and his EA. And, no, I am not calling the EAs "mistakes". They were conscious decisions, even if we didn't recognize where they were leading in the beginning. But, hey, it's been only two months since my husband and I both opened up about the EAs. We still have a long way to go. I'm just glad that fog lifted before we ended our marriage.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Yes the OM needs to be cut out like a cancer for any chance for this marriage to recover.


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> It's not about blaming it on the OM.
> 
> It's about getting the spouse to exit THIS affair so that quality marriage counseling and individual counseling can occur.
> Break up the affair--as I did with my husband--and then MC can truly be insightful and the marriage can vastly improve and yes, be happy again.


I'll go along with that. I had two observations. First, if you try to end the affair by embarrassing the two, it can come back on you. I was implying that a notification to 20-30 of their co-workers may result in "private" email and pictures to 20-30 co-workers. You may or may not care. A better approach would be private communication with the other party. 
Second, calling the OM a scumbag loser who goes after married women could be correct (hasn't happened on this thread but it has happened). But remember who went for his advances and who may have well been the aggressor.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

This is why we suggested he go to HR and maybe contact some folks at work privately.

Not sure what could come back on him. The fact is that he is losing his wife now. That trumps all else IMO. He will be just fine if he takes action. If he has no fear. Just purpose.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> Second, calling the OM a scumbag loser who goes after married women could be correct (hasn't happened on this thread but it has happened). But remember who went for his advances and who may have well been the aggressor.


This is a valid point I was going to mention myself. Don't be too sure your wife isn't the aggressor.

That means that you have to be very careful how the email is worded. But that's all it means.

Cheaters take advantage of BSs being embarrassed and ashamed--when they are the ones who are loyal and true to their vows! Cheaters COUNT on this. They expect it. What they don't expect is being called out by the simple unembellished truth. Not histrionics or exaggerations or emotional pleas. A sentence or two suffices. There is no "blowback" from this except fury from the WS.

And I told my husband more than a couple of times,* that if he even dared to think that exposure was in the same league as what he'd done, the marriage was OVER and he was not to waste another minute of my time.

*(Just to clarify--this was obviously after the affair ended for good. My husband was very deeply affected by exposure. BTW, he didn't care and still doesn't who of MY friends I tell. He mainly cared about the opinions of his family and protecting the AP.)


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

her co-workers already know - sending them any correspondence will have no effect whatsoever, they won't want to get involved (who would??)

HR probably already know - my director of HR told me they know ALL SORTS about affairs that happen in the workplace and we have over 6000 staff. You sound like you're talking about a pretty small organisation

me? I'd dump her - I find the thought of an emotional affair worse than a physical affair anyway. Once the trust has gone that's it for me

you won't be alone indefinitely, you'll find someone else, someone who respects you and deserves your respect in return


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## BigLiam (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that. Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations. They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". She is digging the excitement. Hence, if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means she doesn't love you.


What is the problem with waging war on the OM? It does not mean the wife is off scott free.

This does not seem to be a terribly difficult concept. Expose her and do whatever you can to make his life uncomfortable, as well. Pretty easy, really.
OM are co-conspirators. Who cares if they are viewed as slightly less culpable than the cheater? One can easily attack the OM and still hold the cheating wife responsible.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

What does the OMs live-in GF think of this? Does she even know?


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## Fvstringpicker (Mar 11, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> I find the thought of an emotional affair worse than a physical affair anyway. Once the trust has gone that's it for me
> 
> you won't be alone indefinitely, you'll find someone else, someone who respects you and deserves your respect in return


I figure an "emotional" affair is nothing but a euphemism for what should be called a "romantic" affair. Think about it. What's worse, a quick fifteen minute romp in a supply closet or a three month "emotional affair" with hundreds of phone calls and text message, many from your home computer while the spouse is asleep, expressing love, affection, sexual innuendo, and discussing what's missing from your marriage and how you wish both your "situations" weren't fettering you.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> I figure an "emotional" affair is nothing but a euphemism for what should be called a "romantic" affair. Think about it. What's worse, a quick fifteen minute romp in a supply closet or a three month "emotional affair" with hundreds of phone calls and text message, many from your home computer while the spouse is asleep, expressing love, affection, sexual innuendo, and discussing what's missing from your marriage and how you wish both your "situations" weren't fettering you.


Gosh! That's a very good point! Put like that, the EA would be worse!


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

For me a PA is an immediate deal breaker. If it is the result of an EA then you have that too. But if the PA was casual I think it even worse as that was too easy to just break the vows. Just my perspective. Kick in the nads or shovel to the face. They are all bad.

I actually understand how EAs can occur without there being deliberate intent to start it. Just F^ing someone is deliberate infidelity. An EA may be too but not always. A deliberate EA would be a deal breaker for me as well.
At some point an EA does become a deliberate act. 

The intent is to stop the EA before it is willful infidelity. There is a point of no return where one would have to question reconsiling. I think in any case one blows the affair up and then assesses.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Yes expose now but as others have said include HR Abe the boss. 

Request HR and the boss separate them. 
Doing things like taking the passive high road will cost you your marriage. 
Look the minute she got upset that he had a GF. You knew this is a make or break moment. It doesn't matter if it's gone PA. It already has gone to where she is possessive if him and views him bring with another woman as cheating. 

One thing you might honestly try is to entrap him. Hire I e if those agencies where hit women will throw themselves at a guy along with evidence to prove he us willing to cheat. 

I'm serious. Show her he will cheat on her. Ruin the relationship. 

Hire a hit hooker to bed him
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> She needs to quit her job immediately. I assume that would be Monday. This is required for her to go through withdrawal from him. She needs to go complete NC with him. That includes blocking him on FB.
> 
> Since you mention additional email accounts this is now not just an inappropriate relationship but an unfaithful situation.
> 
> ...




:iagree::iagree::iagree:

And I have WAY WAY too much experience with exactly this situation. My H had a yr long EA at work. I didnt act fast enough. I should have been more proactive from the start to protect my marriage. I relied on him to do the right thing. MISTAKE. Once the A starts, they wont end it on their own. There's too much temptation. Too much exposure to that person. All day. Every day. NC is your ONLY hope. My H had to quit his job. It was the only way to save our marriage and get out of his EA completely.

Dont hesitate to expose. I did go to his AP and warn her to back the hell off. You cant just sit and watch your marriage go down the drain.

Good luck.


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## KayEffe (Jun 2, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Really? Had I taken that road, my husband and I would have drifted further and further apart. I'm glad it was exposed. Just as I am glad MY EA was exposed. Sitting back and just waiting, playing the "part as the honorable, faithful husband" won't get her to see what she is doing is wrong. If anything, it shows her the opposite. I guarantee that she will think he just doesn't care about her or the marriage if he takes the "wait and see" approach instead of action.


Seems like my response has been misinterpreted by some of you here, which is understandable as I didn't make myself too clear...what I mean by "take the high road" and "play your part as the honorable, faithful husband" is that he should not turn this into a public affair and instead confront his wife in the privacy of their own home. In a moment of blind rage revenge might seem like the best approach, but in the long-run, no one wins.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

her we again,, E3000, IHeart, and BL are all right. The wife already said the coworkers are uneasy with their friendship. So Chris, you outing to them and HR, shows you are not ok with this and making a stink. E3000, I applaud your restriant. I also have to pause before writing after reading some accomadating posts. POSOMs are fair game, he KNOWS she is married, so if he wants to play in the game, Scar Faced said it all. The wifey, we will handle, bu he must be reminded that wives are off the tables. So, go nuke this sh*t and let the pieces fall where they may. Stop playing games like you have been advised and take control. She has shown she is not able to do it on her own,


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

KayEffe said:


> Seems like my response has been misinterpreted by some of you here, which is understandable as I didn't make myself too clear...what I mean by "take the high road" and "play your part as the honorable, faithful husband" is that he should not turn this into a public affair and instead confront his wife in the privacy of their own home. In a moment of blind rage revenge might seem like the best approach, but in the long-run, no one wins.


Secrecy is the most essential ingredient of any affair, that's what drives it. Exposure is the thing most people in affairs fear most of all. Strange how the former waywards here endorse exposure isn't it? Because exposure kills affairs. Of course the degree of exposure will be up to the BS.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

OldWolf57 said:


> her we again,, E3000, IHeart, and BL are all right. The wife already said the coworkers are uneasy with their friendship. So Chris, you outing to them and HR, shows you are not ok with this and making a stink. E3000, I applaud your restriant. I also have to pause before writing after reading some accomadating posts. POSOMs are fair game, he KNOWS she is married, so if he wants to play in the game, Scar Faced said it all. The wifey, we will handle, bu he must be reminded that wives are off the tables. So, go nuke this sh*t and let the pieces fall where they may. Stop playing games like you have been advised and take control. She has shown she is not able to do it on her own,


Agree.

I despair when the BS is in a deeper fog than the adulterer.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

I added this to the newbie thread, page 7, you should understand how badly you should do a wide exposure.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-7.html


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

KayEffe said:


> Seems like my response has been misinterpreted by some of you here, which is understandable as I didn't make myself too clear...what I mean by "take the high road" and "play your part as the honorable, faithful husband" is that *he should not turn this into a public affair and instead confront his wife in the privacy of their own home. In a moment of blind rage revenge might seem like the best approach, but in the long-run, no one wins*.


I have to, respectfully, disagree with you on this one. I had an EA two years ago. My husband learned of it, inadvertently, via our then almost two year old son. He handed daddy my cell phone after the boy opened my emails. My husband confronted me and ordered me to end it. I was angry with him, but agreed. Not because he was right, but because I was caught. I REGRETTED it then, I wasn't remorseful. And I made a show of playing the dutiful wife for awhile. But he never told anyone about it. He never exposed me to anyone. NO friends, no family, no one. However, I actually was starting to feel better about our marriage...for awhile.

Last year, I began another EA when things began to decline in our relationship again. I had learned from the last time to hide things better. When it was eventually learned, it was told to my parents, our friends, everyone. But he had entered into one as well. And his was exposed as well. I feel remorse from the previous EA. I feel remorse now, as does he. 

Keeping an affair of any kind a secret is the worst thing you can do. All it does is makes the offending partner more determined not to get caught NEXT TIME. By exposing to friends, family, co-workers, employers, it shows that, even if they knew about it, you aren't taking this lying down. It shows you will fight for your marriage. It shows that you are not ok with the behavior. It shows that you will make an affair as uncomfortable as possible, by having friends and family watching for unseemly behavior. Knowing that everyone around you finds your behavior reprehensible increases the likelihood that it will never happen again. And THAT is the goal. That is the goal whether the couple stays together or not.... faithfulness in ANY relationship.


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## Eli-Zor (Nov 14, 2010)

Maricha75 said:


> I have to, respectfully, disagree with you on this one. I had an EA two years ago. My husband learned of it, inadvertently, via our then almost two year old son. He handed daddy my cell phone after the boy opened my emails. My husband confronted me and ordered me to end it. I was angry with him, but agreed. Not because he was right, but because I was caught. I REGRETTED it then, I wasn't remorseful. And I made a show of playing the dutiful wife for awhile. But he never told anyone about it. He never exposed me to anyone. NO friends, no family, no one. However, I actually was starting to feel better about our marriage...for awhile.
> 
> Last year, I began another EA when things began to decline in our relationship again. I had learned from the last time to hide things better. When it was eventually learned, it was told to my parents, our friends, everyone. But he had entered into one as well. And his was exposed as well. I feel remorse from the previous EA. I feel remorse now, as does he.
> 
> Keeping an affair of any kind a secret is the worst thing you can do. All it does is makes the offending partner more determined not to get caught NEXT TIME. By exposing to friends, family, co-workers, employers, it shows that, even if they knew about it, you aren't taking this lying down. It shows you will fight for your marriage. It shows that you are not ok with the behavior. It shows that you will make an affair as uncomfortable as possible, by having friends and family watching for unseemly behavior. Knowing that everyone around you finds your behavior reprehensible increases the likelihood that it will never happen again. And THAT is the goal. That is the goal whether the couple stays together or not.... faithfulness in ANY relationship.



Thanks for your words, hopefully this helps the poster


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> Yes expose now but as others have said include HR Abe the boss.
> 
> Request HR and the boss separate them.
> Doing things like taking the passive high road will cost you your marriage.
> ...


I would like to hire one of these to prove that the OW is a serial cheater. 

The OW's husband refuses to believe me. Won't even talk to me. 

Maybe a detective who does this can convince him.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Fvstringpicker said:


> And whatja do about the next OM, or the one after that. Blame it on the other man if you like, but the wife the one that's apparently lost interest in her old man. Guys always attack the other man in these situations. They forget that their wives led the other man on. The wives didn't tell the other man, "look I appreciate the compliments, but I'm in love with my husband, so you need to get lost". She is digging the excitement. Hence, if your wife cannot resist the attention of another man, you've got bigger problems than the another man. If your wife's involved in an affair, it means she doesn't love you.


Yes. All good points. The OW in my husband's affair was the initiator and ongoing aggressor. Even during our False R, she was still trying to rekindle the affair. STBEH is not interested in her anymore, though.

Yes. When married other people will still try to initiate a sexual relationship. It's up to the married person to resist even if attracted. 

It is normal to be attracted to other people when married, but it is not normal to act on it.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> You could dump your current cheating spouse and move on. But if you contributed to vulnerabilities in the marriage, you're taking your problems with you.


I think this only applies if the the faithful spouse actually did create problems in the marriage. 

Despite the trend to say both parties made the marriage vulnerable, I think this is wrong to do. 

All marriages have problems. It's normal. The faithful spouse is never to blame for making the cheater vulnerable, IMO. 

I would really like to see this trend stop. Most faithful spouse I have known throughout my life were the better half in the relationship. Maybe they can't see that because their self esteem is low after a spouse cheats.



> Break up the affair--as I did with my husband--and then MC can truly be insightful and the marriage can vastly improve and yes, be happy again.
> 
> edited to say, of course everyone doesn't get the fairytale ending (me either) but if the OP wants to try for R, then they should get that chance.



Yes. It's important to acknowledge that breaking up the affair will not always save the marriage. To my mind, I wanted my husband to end it on hi s own. If I had to insist than what was the point. It had to be his decision to dump the OW.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Sara8 said:


> I think this only applies if the the faithful spouse actually did create problems in the marriage.
> 
> Despite the trend to say both parties made the marriage vulnerable, I think this is wrong to do.
> 
> ...


I agree. I understand the circumstances that were setup for my EA. It had nothing to do with my wife. It had to do with me working seven days a week for a long period under stressful conditions. I am not letting myself off the hook, but rather am trying to show that it was all on me. 

I was always working. I had reason to do so. However, this meant that I was not there for my wife and she could not meet my needs either because of this. Towards this end of this long work cycle, this put me working a lot of hours with the woman I grew too attached to. I was letting some needs to be met by the wrong person. This was not a conscious thought process, but the fact that it felt fine. I was in that fog.
I was an idiot.

Anyway my point is that in my case my wife was not the problem. Also as many knopw it was my wife that handled this by blowing it up. I listened. I did not think there was anything wrong. We were just friends after all. I was wrong and realized this after I went through withdrawal. FWIW, I listend to my wife anyway because she meant the world to me. I never stopped loving her. She saved our marriage.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> me? I'd dump her - I find the thought of an emotional affair worse than a physical affair anyway. Once the trust has gone that's it for me
> 
> you won't be alone indefinitely, you'll find someone else, someone who respects you and deserves your respect in return


I agree. Once the trust in a marriage is gone, what do you have really? Nothing. 

As has been mentioned here a million times, the sexual or emotional or secretive aspects is bad enough, but the easier part to get over. 

It's the lying, the deception and the humiliation that is the difficult part to forgive and forget.

The sad truth is your husband bad mouthed you to a low life married cheater. Likely told many exaggerations or outright untruths about you and your marriage, and then stabbed you further in the back by likely gas lighting you afterward by insisting you get over the affair too quickly or that some of your suspicions were/are crazy or unfounded. 

I always knew when one of my suspicions was true because with the true ones in particular my husband would start to become very defensive and verbally abusive.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

KayEffe said:


> Seems like my response has been misinterpreted by some of you here, which is understandable as I didn't make myself too clear...what I mean by "take the high road" and "play your part as the honorable, faithful husband" is that he should not turn this into a public affair and instead confront his wife in the privacy of their own home. In a moment of blind rage revenge might seem like the best approach, but in the long-run, no one wins.


I think this is one step. But it is a bang bang thing. Meaning there is little time to wait after confrontation to the WS. If you wait too long confrontation may actually enable the affair. I am talking a couple of days at most waiting. Then if the WS is not going to cooperate it requires the next step.

This is not about revenge, but exposure to stop the EA. I believe that caught soon enough a couple can recover from the EA. Waiting cuts deeper.

That said, I have no problem with a BS being vindictive towards the AP. That does not let the WS off the hook. They are culpable, but you are trying to kill the affair and reconsile with them. The AP is a predator to one degree or another. 

I think the degree of vindictiveness depends on the situation. I see a difference between a person who has inappropriately bonded versus an actual predator who meant to seduce a married woman. The latter has every reason to be held accountable because they willfully did this. Typically thay may have a string of affairs with married women for example. A Personal Trainer who beds married women as part of his planned sex life and business plan for example. Or anyone who uses the power of their position unehtically. Like a doctor or counselor or boss.
And so on. They should not get a free pass. But to be sure what we are talking about now is exposing the affir and not worrying how it impacts the AP. The marriage is the priority.

Life exists in the gray in between here. My only point is that the BS has every right to be vindicative if they wish. Especially if their marriage is ultimately destroyed by this. Just my opinion and how I would handle this. YMMV.

Realize I am NOT a BS. I was the one in the EA.

So I agree that it could be a first step to confront privately, but very quickly and methodically the affair needs to see the light of day, because few WS stop right away. They need to be coaxed because their integrity has been compromised by their feelings. They are acting under the influence of oxytocin and dopamine. Which are incredibly powerful. It shook my world because I was superman and thought I was immune to such things. I was wrong.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> I would really like to see this trend stop. Most faithful spouse I have known throughout my life were the better half in the relationship. Maybe they can't see that because their self esteem is low after a spouse cheats.


I couldn't disagree more. Sorry!

I've already written at length on my opinion about the sliding scale of:

1. how messed up / broken the cheater is

2. how much the loyal spouse did / didn't make the marriage vulnerable.


Every single marriage is a combination of two people and every single marriage is going to fall differently on the sliding scale based on #1 and #2.


I'm sorry, there are NO black and white answers to cheating as much as everyone would like there to be! You are basing your response on your own experience--and I'm entitled to express mine.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> I couldn't disagree more. Sorry!
> 
> I've already written at length on my opinion about the sliding scale of:
> 
> ...


Iheart:

Of course you are entitled to express your opinion. I simple disagreed. 

I agree marital problems are shared by both. Sometimes 50/50 but not always. 

Even Shirley glass whom you quote often stated that the faithful spouse is typically giving more in the relationship than the cheater. 

But you missed my only point. My point is that yes even if both caused marital discord, CHEATing is not the solution and it is always only the cheater who should take 100 percent blame for cheating rather than seeking counseling or asking for a divorce. 

I have decided to divorce because my spouses cheating has made me distrust him and see him as someone I never thought he was. I see him as a sleaze bag cheater like John Edwards who cheated on his dying wife. 

Is he a sleazebag, are all cheaters sleaze bags. I don't know and therein lies the problem. I don't know. There is no BLACK AND WHITE answer.

I decided I can't live with that. 

Some people would have a revenge affair. I won't. I sought counseling, and IC, my husband refused ongoing MC and will not seek IC. I think he is afraid to confront himself. 

Some of the MC said he has many narcissistic traits and may have NPD, although he would not stay in counseling long enough for the therapist to make a firm diagnosis. 

In any case, cheating is not a reflection on the marriage, it's a reflection on the core personality of the cheater. 

It's difficult to change core personality traits and that is why I filed for D. 

As Liam mentioned elsewhere there are many people who would never cheat as there are spouses who would never beat their children or spouse. 

I see his point. He is saying cheating is abusive. It is. It's emotional abuse. It is a slap down to the spouse for real or perceived slights on the part of the cheater. 

It is a way to say: "Do as I want, do things my way or I will find someone else." 

That logic is immature and emotionally abusive.

And, abusers don't change easily,.


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

Eli-Zor said:


> Agree.
> 
> I despair when the BS is in a deeper fog than the adulterer.


I agree and it seems to happen a lot, where the BS is totally in the fog. So sad to see.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Sara8 said:


> Iheart:
> 
> Of course you are entitled to express your opinion. I simple disagreed.
> 
> ...


Sara8, this is why I am glad you and I are both on this board. We are coming from two radically different angles, as I said before in that other thread. Some people are going to fall more into my situation. Other people are going to fall more into yours.

I don't believe, however, that your situation is any more common than mine. I think each person has to sit down and ask how much can THEY change? Should they change? Are they being the best person they can be?

The trouble is that it seems sometimes that the MORE someone needs to change, the LESS likely they are to perceive this. And the LESS someone needs to change, the MORE often they beat themselves up and fault themselves.

What you and I have in common--I believe--is that we were self-confident and self-aware enough to correctly assess how much changing we ourselves needed to do. You correctly perceived that you could change daily to little effect. I correctly perceived that I could transform myself--i.e., live my life more fully and on a higher plane--to great effect.

Self-awareness and self-confidence are GIFTS that most people do not have.

But there is one thing we can always agree on: cheating is the purest of cowardice. It is ALWAYS a cop-out, not matter what.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

People can attack me if they want. I suggest that the most prevalent act of unfaithfulness is the EA. I think many folks have been into one form of an EA or another and never knew it. Never saw it as such. For one everyone thinks they are different and immune. This is really a requirement of an EA. You need to think you are immune and you are different.

The most common situations are co-workers and good friends. Not the only scenario. I contend the most common.

I will not argue whether this is cheating or it is not. Cheating is level of Unfaithfulness. I happen to think Unfaithfulness is seriously bad stuff. That Cheating can grow out of it but the damage is done before the Cheating. Moreover I think this stuff is best dealt with when it is Inappropriate.

I see what I was doing was wrong. One could say I was a Cheater but FWIW most EAs are with people in great denial. Fooling themselves as much as anything else. I think this is the majority. Left unchecked this could lead to willful cheating. But it will just drain the life out of a marriage without that. That is why it frustrates me when folks know about inappropriate behaviors and even unfaithfulness and they will not act. They will not do anyhting during the time it could be dealt with more readily. They are told to not push their spouse away. What a load of [email protected] Engage in your marriage. I am not saying to accuse anyone of anything. Just do not rug sweep and hope it goes away. Or rely on trust. Trusting someone with compromised integrity is misplaced trust. Protect it a marriage like it matters. I am not saying smother anyone. But if you know things are not right, do not enable it.

You can have spouses who start with inappropriate behavior and never actually cross the line into a PA or even trying to hide what they are doing. They think they are ok. Just friends. YET, what they are doing is cheating the marriage. They are killing it. Maybe it ends in divorce. Maybe it just makes for misery. But the choice of bonding with someone outside the marriage that then becomes an EA is very bad stuff even if it never goes underground and never becomes a PA.

The sad thing is that many BSs put up with the above for fear of being called jealous, insecure and controlling. They let fear stop them. I am not saying to become a control freak by any means. I am saying trust your instincts.

So an EA that does not go underground can cause a marriage to die as well. One can say that people in these are Cheaters.

Ok fine. But while this may hack some people off, there is a difference in someone being a naive fool and someone who willfully goes on Craigslist and hooksup. Or from someone who enages in a PA. Or someone who lies and has a secret love affair. If one wants to use a broad brush then they have that right. I understand.

In no way am I justifying EAs. I think they are cancer. They are wrong. But I am saying they are way more common than when someone flat out cheats. It may lead to that. If you have a very close opposite sex friend and have bonded with them and this relationship is so strong that you would not give it up for your spouse, you just might be in an EA.


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