# Excuse the novel. Husband is in too deep into a local religious group.



## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

that_girl recommended I bring this over here for some unbiased opinions. 

Quick summary of my marriage in general: Married at 17 (he was 19), had our first child when I was 19, I am 22 now (almost 23) and we have 4 children. I stay at home, have no job of my own. 5 years married. I am aware that I was really too young to make such a big decision as to get married, I'm not really needing that point hit home any harder than it has been already.

My husband... he kind of jumps around from obsession to obsession, trying to fill some sort of void he has. It was me, for awhile, but I didn't see that til further down the road. Eventually his fixation became conservative politics, which blindsided me a bit. Then that faded. He confronted an issue with porn/sexual perversion and threw himself into our church/scripture/bible studies/etc. This phase lasted the longest. His obsession with it began to die down when people in the church started doing things that upset him. He became angry and wanted to seek fellowship elsewhere. 

He found a radio station on AM radio that he began listening to all the time, and I... well, I wasn't paying attention, honestly. Maybe I should have been, maybe I could have said or done something to change things. Maybe I dropped the ball there. You may or may not be familiar with Messianic Judaism. In general, I do not have much to say about it. But this radio station, the group that runs it, this is what they claim to be. He began going to Friday night dinners at the radio station. Again... I didn't think much of it, and had no idea what this group was all about at that time. This all began about 10 months ago, possibly more if he's not being honest with me.

This group he's found is incredibly reminiscent of a cult. I am not saying this applies to the Messianic movement as a whole, the only experience I have first hand is his group. They prey on people who are angry and dissatisfied with their current churches, they tell them they will love them and show them the real road to righteousness, and encourage you to not associate with anyone who questions your new beliefs. They warn you to expect a lot of your relationships with family, friends, possibly even your children and spouse, to be destroyed. My husband has fallen for it hard. 

We've had a hard battle. In late December, he flew off the handle and I saw a side of him I was unfamiliar with. All because I won't agree with his new beliefs. He cornered the kids and myself in the bathroom, where I had moved them to because he was trying to take them and leave. He was shouting, screaming at me, and I began having contractions (was 28ish weeks pregnant with the 4th). I called his brother who lived a couple of streets away, because I knew I needed help. Him and his wife rushed over. He was still shouting, I was curled up on the floor sobbing, contractions 2 minutes apart, my kids sitting together on the floor sobbing. His brother tried to calm him down and pointed out what he was doing to his family, and to his unborn child, and he screamed "no, SHE is doing this to us". Implying that it was I who was bringing this chaos upon us, simply because I won't submit to his line of thinking.

It took about 4 hours, if I remember correctly, for him to calm down. The children, myself, and my sister-in-law stuck in a back bedroom the whole time. We eventually gathered our things and left. 


We were separated for awhile, until the birth of our 4th was coming up quickly and I knew he would be needed. I felt like we had done enough work that he could be here again and we would be safe. I was able to see that after the birth of our 3rd child, he had become emotionally abusive toward me, and so when I say "work", that's what I mean that we've been working on with counselors. And he's been relatively fine. I have not seen that man that I saw in late December again. But his ties to this group that fueled so much hatred and anger toward me that night simply for questioning him, they are still there and they are strong.

Fast forward to two days ago. Just 10 minutes after expressing that he has his doubts about this "stuff", 10 minutes after I felt a tiny little pang of hope that I haven't felt in so long, we run into the"fellowship leader's" wife. She begins speaking about how she just spent 10 days away prepping the "compound". I freeze up. What is she talking about?

They are convinced that soon, the country will collapse, there will be raping/looting/killing/rioting, government forcing us to take "the mark", and they are planning their emergency escape and forming their own "sub society" up in the mountains, away from everyone else. When she walks away, he says "Yeah, I've been meaning to talk to you about it". I am floored. He insists this is not a cult. But this sounds to me just like any other doomsday "the end is nigh" group, which.... he always says are cults. Why is this any different? This group has just gone from irritating me to frightening me. And not in the sense that I believe what they're spewing, but that they are so adamant and have so much power over my husband's mind.

To say I'm worried is an understatement. I've been tugging and tugging, his family as well, and it feels like he's just continuing to slowly sink. He tends to only communicate with people from there now, does not contact family, and puts the "fellowship's" needs and schedule ahead of our marriage continually. Though when I confront him on this, he says it's not true. 

I don't even know what I'm asking here, honestly. I am so heartbroken over this. I am resentful towards these people that smelled vulnerability on him and pounced. I am resentful toward him for having such a malleable mind. I am sick to my stomach watching this all happen, and not a word I say has been able to slow the decline so far. Counseling hasn't helped this aspect of things and honestly, I thought I could deal. But it's getting crazier and I just have no idea where to go from here. I love him. His family loves him. We all want to see him happy again and see him get away from these people. I want it so badly it hurts.


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

Hello
I feel your anguish. You seem to have a grasp on the facts and how cults manipulate people. 

I hope someone can recommend support groups for cults or other methods to deal with this local to your country/city. Or you could search online for this if you prefer that. I think your grasp of the situation is realistic and it sounds like your husband has surrendered himself to his emotions and obsessions.

Obessions seem to start with how much we think about something. Often it is to solve discontenment. So there are two things to address in my opinion. Firstly his discontentment. Secondly hopefully you can influence his choices of interests, perhaps if he saw the attraction in sports or some other hobby he would move to that.

My guess (and forgive me if I cross the line) is that he may feel discontented and trapped (as perhaps you do) with a young marriage and family. He may feel he needs a life but yet he may love you and your family and not want to leave. If there is anyway he could answer this need more openly and constructively (than via the cult) then perhaps it will help you all.

Best wishes.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

You may find the thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relati...-st-germain-cult-wife-joins-says-not-one.html helpful.

Also, the following page is from a website that gets into a lot of solid info about cults. This page discusses a few things family members can be aware of as they try to help their loved one regain their ability to think critically.

http://www.culthelp.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=5


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

Henri said:


> My guess (and forgive me if I cross the line) is that he may feel discontented and trapped (as perhaps you do) with a young marriage and family. He may feel he needs a life but yet he may love you and your family and not want to leave. If there is anyway he could answer this need more openly and constructively (than via the cult) then perhaps it will help you all.
> 
> Best wishes.


No, definitely not crossing a line. I know I have felt like this off and on over the years, but when I ask him he says he never has. I think he's afraid it'd hurt me when really, I get it. I totally get it.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> You may find the thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/relati...-st-germain-cult-wife-joins-says-not-one.html helpful.
> 
> Also, the following page is from a website that gets into a lot of solid info about cults. This page discusses a few things family members can be aware of as they try to help their loved one regain their ability to think critically.
> 
> Cult Help and Information - What to do if you have a cult member in your family


Thank you very much for the info, I will read through it.


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

whatever1 said:


> No, definitely not crossing a line. I know I have felt like this off and on over the years, but when I ask him he says he never has. I think he's afraid it'd hurt me when really, I get it. I totally get it.



My opinion, and this is just an opinion below as I am basing it on the posts above, is that if he says he never has then it is because he cares and doesn't want to damage what you have. That is good, because it leaves you in a situation when you can still communicate with him, I hope.

The obsessions are an escape in my opinion, the more involved and included one feels the more one's individuality and purpose is asserted. It is a kind of possession which works both ways. For him he has found himself, an identity and a way to escape from routine and responsibility. For the group they have found confirmation that their views are correct. Members will assert his own membership


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm glad you came here to write it out. Scary shet, yo. If I was there I'd just kick his ass... Stupid geography.

I hope more people have advice and information for you


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Definitely a cultish problem, and certainly your first concern, but I'm not sure that's the complete problem -- get him out of this, he's going to latch onto something else with the same kind of fervor...

I wish you well. Please follow Kathy's advice and seek professional help.

As a Jew, I will spare you my rant about "Messianic" Jews.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Definitely a cultish problem, and certainly your first concern, but I'm not sure that's the complete problem -- get him out of this, he's going to latch onto something else with the same kind of fervor...
> 
> I wish you well. Please follow Kathy's advice and seek professional help.
> 
> As a Jew, I will spare you my rant about "Messianic" Jews.


Yeah, I agree. There's deeper issues he needs to address with a professional if/when we can drag him out of this. Because its always something. Always. And I'm exhausted from trying to keep up with it all.

Doing some reading, I see that their title is misleading. They fall under the Hebrew Roots movement, but avoid that term for some reason and claim the Messianic title.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

One of the most important things to understand about cults is that they methodically interfere with their members' ability to use critical thinking skills. 

"Critical thinking skills" refers to our ability to use logic, to compare and contrast conflicting versions of truth in order to find a "correct" answer. 

Cults use established brainwashing techniques on vulnerable individuals to achieve this. This isn't about people who just want something for themselves, or who are expressing freedom. Cults conduct a psychological war and their victims' brains are the trophies the cult takes home. 

I don't have any good answers on how to go about deprogramming someone and persuading them to develop (or redevelop) their critical thinking skills. There are some books on it (I mentioned some in the other thread) that may be helpful. However, I think that people who have surrendered their critical thinking skills are going to be defensive and resistant. They LIKE not having to think for themselves because it does free them from having to be responsible for their own thoughts and actions. So if you try to encourage your husband to think critically and challenge those beliefs, you're going to be seen as an evil, bad person, at least for a while.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I don't have any good answers on how to go about deprogramming someone and persuading them to develop (or redevelop) their critical thinking skills. There are some books on it (I mentioned some in the other thread) that may be helpful. However, I think that people who have surrendered their critical thinking skills are going to be defensive and resistant. They LIKE not having to think for themselves because it does free them from having to be responsible for their own thoughts and actions.*So if you try to encourage your husband to think critically and challenge those beliefs, you're going to be seen as an evil, bad person, at least for a while.*


This has happened between him and his older brother. He used to hold his brother in such high regard. He raised him. But as soon as he tried to point out the flaws in the "logic" his fellowship is pushing, he cut him off. He ignores his phone calls, makes nice with him when he _has_ to see him, but then comes home hostile and angry just knowing that his brother doesn't "see things the right way". I know that I'm going to have to put myself in the same position his brother is in with him right now, and that scares me. 

I figured out where all this end-of-the-world stuff is coming from now. I found a pile of Monte Judah's Yavoh magazines in our room. Researching this guy, he has predicted the end times over and over again and, obviously, has never been correct. His newest prediction is that the tribulation will begin at the start of 2013. Explains why these folks are so focused right now on preparing their "escape". 

I feel like I'm in a bad made-for-TV movie right now.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

UGH! This just makes me sick to no end!

I can't really comment because it would NOT be unbiased. I would love to just beat the crap out of him. this is the WORST I've seen him...and he's done some crazy shet.

But...yea...Hopefully more people have something to offer.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

First and foremost, you need to make sure you and the kids are safe--from him. His escalating behavior and inability to think rationally are so unpredictable, and that's the scariest thing. Make sure you have an exit plan that you can follow immediately w/o having to go home or whatever, if you get any hint that he's become a threat to your safety. I do not intend to alarm you, but it would be a mistake not to prepare yourself in the event that things take a wrong turn. What if he took the kids to the compound and then resisted authorities trying to get them back? You do NOT want to put your kids through this. And given what he has already done and said, I don't think it is outrageous to suggest he might be capable of such a thing.

It seems obvious that your h has a very serious emotional or mental health problem. Getting him into individual therapy will be important--but he needs to see that for himself, or it won't be effective. You might try marriage counseling with someone who could give him an objective opinion about his obsessive behavior (not about the church as a belief, but rather how his pattern of behavior isn't normal or healthy, throwing himself so totally to whatever is the cause of the month). 

Be safe, and good luck. I'm so sorry to hear you are in this situation.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

Thank you for the response. The kids and I have several places we can go if the need to get ourselves to a safe place comes up. What you just mentioned is actually something that_girl brought up and the thought does scare me because I'm fairly sure that while we're still married (meaning no custody agreements), I'd have no legal recourse against him if he did haul our children off to this undisclosed location.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I don't have any personal experience with cults beyond what I mentioned in that other thread I linked above, which wasn't involving anyone I personally knew. Over the years after that, my family talked about cult stuff a fair amount, and I learned even more when we were going through a severe parental alienation syndrome (back before there was such an official term). It's my understanding, which could be incorrect, that one of the most effective methods of encouraging him to think critically is to use intervention techniques as are used with alcohol and drug interventions - many loved ones sit down with the victim AND a professional who understands the dynamics, and gently confront, confront, confront in a loving, supportive manner. It can take hours or even days, if my understanding is correct.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I am pushing for an intervention. I think if anything will work, this will...but he can be so stubborn!


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

If other loved ones agree to an intervention, I think it's a good idea to have someone trained in deprogramming on hand to lead it. Also, be aware of laws you'll need to honor. For instance, a person who is not permitted to leave when they want can claim they were kidnapped, even if it was their own family members who simply intimidated them into staying in a room (depending on state laws.)


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

Whatever1
Do you feel it has reached the stage of no turning back for your husband in this group? I recall he has moved interests and passion in the past?

Is it possible you could engage him in a new hobby or passion, together at first in a genuine and interested way (not as a replacement but for you both to have something different). It may, I hope, change his passions and lead him towards a new interest. (I am assuming he is flexible still).


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

The thing that we all need to realize here is that religion and Christianity is a man made thing. Most of us all talk to God in our own ways.

You need to confront the possiblilty that your husband doesn't belive this and has chosen a path that you're not in agreement with.

Where you go from here is for him to accept the kind of counseling that again, the two of you can agree upon.

And in the meantime..I suggest you stay separated from him so he sees how serious you are about this in order to make your marrage work.

I know that seems harsh, but there are two people in this marriage..you being one of them and he being the other. Either the two you you meet in the middle or you move on to someone on your same page.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

im going to give you a straight up answer you may not like.

i was raised end of the worlder christian.
i went from thing, to thing , to thing like your husband. When you go from thing, to thing to thing, you take in lots of information from alot of sources.
i ended up right back where i started, but my opinions even more cemented.
Considering the u.s. economy almost collapsed a few years ago, i would suggest you might want to at least give your husband a listen. They have done polls in which a good portion of society believes the economy may crash. And that is just ONE of the potential ways our system in its complexity could come tumbling down. Governments rise and fall all the time, the world map changes all the time. your husband, while you think he is going from thing, to thing, to thing, is probably noticing all this.
im not saying the sky is falling, but im saying the possibility is always there, and a few years ago it became a little more likely.
Often people that just start to realize how the world really is, the the risk and jeopardy always there, they tend to overreact and get a little weird. Doesnt make him wrong, he just isnt quite putting it all together perhaps. He realized something is up, got in the group. But perhaps didnt realize the group isnt where it is at. Lots of groups are saying the world will end. But preparing, thinking of collapse or castrophe, that isnt a off the wall notion at all.
I wont b.s . you. 
i have no doubt the country will collapse. Dont know when, may not even be in my life time. But as a betting man id say there are good odds it will.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

IMO, I think once you start to actually care about yourself and kids then, and only then will you leave, and get away from him. Reminds me of something you see on Life time TV, where they guy is crazy into religion so much so, he has no problem doing away with this family, because the members of his religion "told" him too or God "told" him too. Its about control and power, period.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

bribrius said:


> im going to give you a straight up answer you may not like.
> 
> i was raised end of the worlder christian.
> i went from thing, to thing , to thing like your husband. When you go from thing, to thing to thing, you take in lots of information from alot of sources.
> ...


Please stay out of this. I have read your posts about rape in marriage and now this. Leave my friend alone. She needs reasonable responses. We can't control what we can't control. Of course the country will collapse. All empires do at some point.

The children are a big concern. If he just runs off to the mountains like a maniac and takes the kids...she needs to know legal recourse.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Please stay out of this. I have read your posts about rape in marriage and now this. Leave my friend alone. She needs reasonable responses. We can't control what we can't control. Of course the country will collapse. All empires do at some point.
> 
> The children are a big concern. If he just runs off to the mountains like a maniac and takes the kids...she needs to know legal recourse.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: A billion times... agree.... It's funny though how some support "Cults" if they have something to do with the bible... however if they are of a different belief system entirely.. they are evil. IMO... No cult is a good cult... they are all bad regardless.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Please stay out of this. I have read your posts about rape in marriage and now this. Leave my friend alone. She needs reasonable responses. We can't control what we can't control. Of course the country will collapse. All empires do at some point.
> 
> The children are a big concern. If he just runs off to the mountains like a maniac and takes the kids...she needs to know legal recourse.


because i wonder if she is jumping to quick and she is going to seriously screw up here. 
Im into the survival scene. stockpile scene. Much of it revolves around emergency thinking for your own familiys survival.
It isnt a crazy thing. 
There are thousands of people. Kind of like having a fire extinguisher even if you never expect a fire. The children could be HIS concern as well. That is why we do this. Family protection. i cant say this is his reasoning, but i would be careful not to jump to quick or think he is totally misguided when he might just be a little misguided..


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

bribrius said:


> because i wonder if she is jumping to quick and she is going to seriously screw up here.
> Im into the survival scene. stockpile scene. Much of it revolves around emergency thinking for your own familiys survival.
> It isnt a crazy thing.
> There are thousands of people. Kind of like having a fire extinguisher even if you never expect a fire. The children could be HIS concern as well. That is why we do this. Family protection. i cant say this is his reasoning, but i would be careful not to jump to quick or think he is totally misguided when he might just be a little misguided..


Again, please stay out of this. Are you not the man who acquired his wife by trade? She was "payment" to you? And aren't you the man who thinks it's a biblical duty to have sex, therefore rape cannot exist in marriage? 

Yea. Please stay out of this.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Again, please stay out of this. Are you not the man who acquired his wife by trade? She was "payment" to you? And aren't you the man who thinks it's a biblical duty to have sex, therefore rape cannot exist in marriage?
> 
> Yea. Please stay out of this.


the op asked for unbiased opinions. My opinion is she needs to not jump to quick and get a better idea of his mindset and what he is up to.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

If he runs off to the wilderness, who will support his family? He is the bacon bringer in that home.  

These cults are dangerous...amazing what people will believe.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

bribrius said:


> the op asked for unbiased opinions. My opinion is she needs to not jump to quick and get a better idea of his mindset and what he is up to.


Good. thank you for your unbiased opinion. good bye.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

whatever1 said:


> We've had a hard battle. In late December,
> 
> 
> *he flew off the handle and I saw a side of him I was unfamiliar with. All because I won't agree with his new beliefs.*
> ...


Funny... with all the above... you put the blame on her... as if it's her fault her husband is acting in this manner. You say SHE is going to screw up here? Her HUSBAND already screwed up... you are no better then her husband in many regards based on your previous posts Brib. You fail to see all the wrong the husband has done.. and instead are already trying to blameshift the wife. Sure... considering ones own family survives is one thing.. but this.... this is in no way survival in the least. Especially not when he put her and his unborn in danger with his overly aggressive behavior.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I know these people personally...in real life...and he needs help. SHE needs help too, but more advice on how to help herself and possibly help him.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

bribrius said:


> because i wonder if she is jumping to quick and she is going to seriously screw up here.
> Im into the survival scene. stockpile scene. Much of it revolves around emergency thinking for your own familiys survival.
> It isnt a crazy thing.
> There are thousands of people. Kind of like having a fire extinguisher even if you never expect a fire. The children could be HIS concern as well. That is why we do this. Family protection. i cant say this is his reasoning, but i would be careful not to jump to quick or think he is totally misguided when he might just be a little misguided..


Berating his family, his wife, into submission is NOT the way to get her to see what he is thinking. Honestly, from the way it was explained, this sounds very much like a cult. As you stated above, you were raised in an "end of the world"church. Funny, so was I. And I still belong to one. However, nowhere do they teach to prepare a compound and all the things this cult is doing. Right now, the OP needs to do what she needs to protect her children.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

that_girl said:


> I know these people personally...in real life...and he needs help. SHE needs help too, but more advice on how to help herself and possibly help him.


okay. you got me beat then. i just see a internet dialogue and assume it is one sides viewpoint and not the other and could be overdramatized.
you know them in real life.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Berating his family, his wife, into submission is NOT the way to get her to see what he is thinking. Honestly, from the way it was explained, this sounds very much like a cult. As you stated above, you were raised in an "end of the world"church. Funny, so was I. And I still belong to one. However, nowhere do they teach to prepare a compound and all the things this cult is doing. Right now, the OP needs to do what she needs to protect her children.


we have a place to go, been in the family since i was a toddler, picking up another one tomorrow my parents sign papers on it.
just a place "just in case".


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> IMO, I think once you start to actually care about yourself and kids then, and only then will you leave, and get away from him. Reminds me of something you see on Life time TV, where they guy is crazy into religion so much so, he has no problem doing away with this family, because the members of his religion "told" him too or God "told" him too. Its about control and power, period.


I do care about my kids and the implication that I don't isn't appreciated. Leaving with four kids and no money is not an option I take lightly. I know its about 90% likely it'll come down to that, but forgive me for not shoving them out the door knowing I have no way to support them at this time. I am working on a plan, which takes some time. And no, setting aside money from my husband's income isn't working because there's barely any there in the first place.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, she hears enough of your side from her husband. 

And your views and values are questionable.

But thanks for playing. 

On the flip side, how would one go about deprogramming someone who was sucked into this cult?

I think if there's any intervention, a professional should be there too. Although, knowing her husband, he probably will just blow up and run out.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

whatever1 said:


> I do care about my kids and the implication that I don't isn't appreciated. Leaving with four kids and no money is not an option I take lightly. I know its about 90% likely it'll come down to that, but forgive me for not shoving them out the door knowing I have no way to support them at this time. I am working on a plan, which takes some time. And no, setting aside money from my husband's income isn't working because there's barely any there in the first place.


And he's giving that money to THEM  !


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Angel5112 said:


> I honestly think she needs to take her children and leave, whether it's with a safe house or a friend is her choice. If she wants to work on the marriage and attempt to save her husband, she can do it from a distance. It doesn't matter who he was, but who he is right now.


Really, all she has to do is tell them she is concerned for her safety, and that of her children. And tell those in charge what the problem is. She can get the help needed to get back on her feet again. And, if the concern is that he will run for the kills with the kids, she can, if she chooses to separate/divorce, request supervised visitation only. At the very least, talk to a lawyer and/or counselor (independent at this time) to see what her options are. If she knows how to get into contact with women's shelters, then do that and see what the options are there, as well.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Well, she hears enough of your side from her husband.
> 
> And your views and values are questionable.
> 
> ...


Hard to do, as they live it pretty deep. My wife accused my family of being a cult, and said i was too involved with them. Accused our faith of going to far and being a cult. Never really phased me. I was raised with it so it was normal for me. Overtime she pretty much let it go unless a famiily issue comes up with my side and i hear her mutter it under her breath. i think since i took her to the getaway a few times, she spent some time there, took her to the firing range and taught her to shoot, bought her a personal protection device, she actually is getting a little more less concerned about it. I think the images and fear in her mind from not knowing was worse than what it actually was. She is mellowed out on it now and understands much of it is geared to our own family including her as she is married to me. And the family has really gone out of their way to make her feel at home and make her one of us. She is on very good terms with them all now. And they have stepped up to help her with things so she is realizing there are benefits to being involved, she was kind of pulled under the family wing.
i wouldnt consider it a cult, but for someone who was never involved, never ran accrossed it before i understand why she was apprehensive. It is something strange and unknown.
i would see where is mind his at, all i was trying to say. im not taking sides.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Angel5112 said:


> Good for you. I personally don't subscribe to that kind of thinking and it doesn't sound like the OP does either, so your opinion doesn't apply.


Besides, it's one thing preparing for your own family/friends...it's another thing to prepare, as a cult, and isolate yourselves from everyone... much like David Koresh did in the 90s.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Pack up your stuff AS IF you and the kids are going to go with him. Then when he is at work or asleep check yourself into a women's shelter. Nothing good will come of a compound in the mountains. Trust this total stranger. And I am a devout Christian.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> Besides, it's one thing preparing for your own family/friends...it's another thing to prepare, as a cult, and isolate yourselves from everyone... much like David Koresh did in the 90s.


That is the question. what exactly is he doing. But another poster knows them personally, so she would probably have a better idea. Maybe he is going nuts. Maybe not. who knows whats in his head.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> That is the question. what exactly is he doing. But another poster knows them personally, so she would probably have a better idea. Maybe he is going nuts. Maybe not. who knows whats in his head.


He is taking no steps at home to stockpile or anything. He is dependent on the group for safety in the event that "something" happens. I'm betting money that "something" will just be if Obama gets re-elected, since the current doomsday theory seems to center around him.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

whatever1 said:


> He is taking no steps at home to stockpile or anything. He is dependent on the group for safety in the event that "something" happens. I'm betting money that "something" will just be if Obama gets re-elected, since the current doomsday theory seems to center around him.


i wonder what he would do if you told him you thought it was a great idea but you didnt like the idea of trusting total strangers and wanted him to help you all do it as a family.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I wonder what he would do if she left and stayed with a friend as suggested. IMO this is exactly what she needs to do and he clearly needs space to think about what he is doing to the family by listening to a cult of strangers.


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## Henri (Jun 30, 2012)

At no one specific 
In the OP, Whatever1 explained it isn't just about Jesus or the end of the world:



> eventually his fixation became conservative politics, which blindsided me a bit.


My opinion is that imagining what might happen may not help. Preparing for all possiblities will help, however at the moment my imperssion is Whatever1 wants her husband back and his behaviour to change. I suggest change through trying to understand why the husband is attracted to groups in general, and then try to address a solution in that respect. The issue being that there is risk of increased anxiety and break up if we go down the root of cults explictly. Just an opinion.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Bribrius, I'm glad your life works for you.

It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend. Go do your thing with your wife. Your opinion has been noted and disregarded. no offense, but if she wanted to have an open mind, she would have about a year ago when this all started going down.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

that_girl said:


> Bribrius, I'm glad your life works for you.
> 
> It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend. Go do your thing with your wife. Your opinion has been noted and disregarded. no offense, but if she wanted to have an open mind, she would have about a year ago when this all started going down.


why do you keep speaking for your friend? It is starting to seem a little odd, as does this.

"It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend."
see how you placed yourself directly with your friend like she isnt her own person with her own thinking?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

MY impression of OP's husband (and I know him) is that he is very insecure and constantly seeking approval.

Because of his intense and impulsive nature, many people find him difficult to hang out with because he, at times, can be very judgmental when things aren't going the way he thinks they should.

He jumps from group to group and totally jumps in....head first...when he feels accepted, appreciated, valued, and if that starts to wane, he finds fault with them and moves on to another group.

OP is a good woman. She's a good mother and wife. I have seen his behavior first hand and I honestly don't know how she sits there listening to him without kicking him in the face. 

Deep down, I know he's a good guy. he's funny and generous. However, he is soooo set in his convictions that he won't listen to anyone...not even the OP. He is verbally abusive, but the OP is learning to not let it get to her so much...


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

whatever1 said:


> I do care about my kids and the implication that I don't isn't appreciated. Leaving with four kids and no money is not an option I take lightly. I know its about 90% likely it'll come down to that, but forgive me for not shoving them out the door knowing I have no way to support them at this time. I am working on a plan, which takes some time. And no, setting aside money from my husband's income isn't working because there's barely any there in the first place.


This is NOT about you shoving anyone out the door. Thats not what I was saying. But if thats how you took it then you just do.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

bribrius said:


> why do you keep speaking for your friend? It is starting to seem a little odd, as does this.
> 
> "It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend."
> see how you placed yourself directly with your friend like she isnt her own person with her own thinking?


Because I know her very well. We've talked about everything for years. And she just texted me saying you're a little 'off'. She may not speak up, but I will. Why must you keep posting in here when no one is interested in your opinion? We get that you are in a similar group. We get that she should be more open minded. thank you.

But I'll let her deal with you now. I'm putting you on ignore.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

bribrius said:


> why do you keep speaking for your friend? It is starting to seem a little odd, as does this.
> 
> "It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend."
> see how you placed yourself directly with your friend like she isnt her own person with her own thinking?


Actually no... she didn't do that. She clearly stated she wasn't ok with her friend situation and her friend is clearly not ok with it either...


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

Angel5112 said:


> I don't think that is what CallaLily meant, although I do see how you could take it that way. I think she just meant that once you gain the personal confidence to put yourself and your children first, and stop allowing you husband to abuse you, you will leave.


Thank you, its exactly what I meant.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

bribrius said:


> why do you keep speaking for your friend? It is starting to seem a little odd, as does this.
> 
> "It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend."
> see how you placed yourself directly with your friend like she isnt her own person with her own thinking?


How is it "speaking for" me if she's only conveying things to you that I have already stated myself? I've already made it obvious that I don't subscribe to this line of thinking, your input isn't changing anything.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

bribrius said:


> why do you keep speaking for your friend? It is starting to seem a little odd, as does this.
> 
> "It doesn't even seem remotely ok for me or my friend."
> see how you placed yourself directly with your friend like she isnt her own person with her own thinking?


Why do you keep insisting that the husband's line of thinking is ok? Perhaps she should take advice you have given elsewhere and just have sex with him to deescalate the situation?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

that_girl said:


> We get that she should be more open minded. thank you.


It actually seems to me as if Brib is suggesting she be LESS open minded and just nod her head and agree with her H regardless of her feelings. After all... we do know that he believes she isn't her own person anymore since marrying.


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## bribrius (Jun 29, 2012)

whatever1 said:


> How is it "speaking for" me if she's only conveying things to you that I have already stated myself? I've already made it obvious that I don't subscribe to this line of thinking, your input isn't changing anything.


well im curious to know how this works out for you. i wish you luck.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Maricha75 said:


> Why do you keep insisting that the husband's line of thinking is ok? Perhaps she should take advice you have given elsewhere and just have sex with him to deescalate the situation?


:rofl:


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

whatever1 said:


> The kids and I have several places we can go if the need to get ourselves to a safe place comes up.


Its good that you all have some places to go. However, I'm not so sure you need to wait and see if that needs to happen. I think you are dealing with a scary/crazy situation right now. Don't wait and see. Just go and deal from afar if you need to.


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## whatever1 (Jul 1, 2012)

CallaLily said:


> This is NOT about you shoving anyone out the door. Thats not what I was saying. But if thats how you took it then you just do.


I understand a bit better now what you meant. I'm sorry I jumped into defense mode so quickly.


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## CallaLily (Jan 13, 2011)

whatever1 said:


> I understand a bit better now what you meant. I'm sorry I jumped into defense mode so quickly.


Its ok not a problem!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

whatever1 said:


> I understand a bit better now what you meant. I'm sorry I jumped into defense mode so quickly.


LOL "I'm in your thread post gettin' all defensive" :whip:


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## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Back to the actual task at hand, I take it there are very few actual ethnically Jewish people involved in this particular group, right?

And you're correct, it doesn't take a revelation from God to know we're heading into some rough waters quite soon. This truth has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

I also take it that your H is not particularly educated in either political science or the scriptures. Is there someone outside of this particular local cult who your husband looks up to? I mean someone with a fair degree of scriptural knowledge. What you need to do is basically have a point by point fisking of this group's belief system. Like the Jesus quotations that "No man knoweth the day or the hour", etc. It's a hallmark of cults that despite such verses, they somehow know the day of the end of time, even though "the angels in heaven, nor the Son" don't. It's funny, if you don't have a loved one mixed up in it.

What was your previous denomination?


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