# Feels like a downward spiral...



## bdbogus (Dec 3, 2016)

Been married for over 18 years, together for right at 24 years, two kids (13 & 9), her 45, me 43. I'm the HD person and she's the LD. It's been this way for probably something like 15 years. In college, there were no signs glaring signs of a low drive. Things changed shortly after about a year of marriage. Almost as if she got the ring, so she's good. 

I've made numerous attempts at letting her know my feelings and things never change. I think a good portion of her problems stem from her parents' marriage. They are still married but it's rather loveless. My FIL has had numerous affairs in the past and probably still has them even in his 70's. Its been like this for probably 35 years. Yet, my wife still lets her dad dote on her and she actually shows more affection towards him than she does me. 

If it wasn't for my initiating, I highly doubt there would be sex. As it is, probably looking at maybe 1/mo....maybe. 

To top it off, while she doesn't work, the family recently came into a lot of money from the sale of a business. Since that time, the lack of intimacy has seemed to increase. Again, I feel like she thinks that I'm no longer needed for financial stability as she has it all on her own...just like when things slacked off shortly after the wedding. 

I'm a super loyal guy, but I've got my limits. When constantly getting rejected it wears you down. I'm in rather good shape and she's actually gotten in great shape over the last few years and I'm very attracted to her, but I feel like that's beginning to wane. She says she loves me, but there's no physical expression of that love. No hugs, kisses, or other touching unless I initiate. I've been out of town for several weeks for business but back in town on the weekends and there was no intimacy over the 4 days of Thanksgiving. The last night of the weekend, I asked about sex and got the proverbial excuses, tired, blah, blah, blah. She had time to watch her TV and check her FB, but not enough time for me...so in disgust, I rolled over on my side of the bed and went to sleep...pissed. 

Next morning, I packed my stuff and headed back out of town. She knew I was pissed about the previous night but didn't bother to try and discuss it....I sure as hell wasn't going to. Grabbed my bag and told her bye and she gave me a one arm hug. Pretty sad...

Having read many topics here, I think I've confirmed my course of action...not going to dish out affection at all. Not going to be a **** towards her, just going to stop the hugs, kisses, and other shows of affection. My concern is that it will further build my resentment towards her and she won't change her attitude either. Not only that, I know our kids will see it as well and the cycle continues just as what my wife saw growing up....vicious cycle. 

So when do you cut your losses and move on or do you just keep **** together until the kids are out of the house? That's another 9 years of the status quo...I've brought up counseling and that notion kind of pisses her off so it's pretty much a nonstarter. 

I know she's not cheating as she cannot keep a secret nor hide something like that without it totally eating at her. 

Simply at a loss....




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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

It's enough when you feel you have had enough, if she will not consider counseling you need to let her know how you really feel.

You have one foot out the door and the other is close behind, give her a time limit on when you want things to change and if they don't do what you need to do for yourself to have a life that makes you happy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm trying to figure out why she'd care if you left? If she's got money now, but doesn't care to give you any physical affection-- no sex at all.......she may not care of you leave.

I know nothing about sexless marriages, but from what I've seen here time and again, they never get better. 

I would ask her if she isn't attracted to you anymore, to release you so you can find a woman who is.


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

Lostme said:


> It's enough when you feel you have had enough, if she will not consider counseling you need to let her know how you really feel.
> 
> You have one foot out the door and the other is close behind, give her a time limit on when you want things to change and if they don't do what you need to do for yourself to have a life that makes you happy.


OP: I don't think that trying to make her change will do anything but make her angry. What you can do is try to make her discuss the situation with her.

There are many possible reasons for her behavior, including loss of libido, being immersed in other activities, sickness, or some other biological reason. And she may not be willing to discuss these issues with you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You need to take some time and figure out what you want. If it's gotten worse don't look for it to get better. Why waste more time and life in this. This is your life too.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

Feeling quite the same here but there was actual infidelity in my case. The big question is how long to remain and hope things will change. Sorry you're here. Beginning to hate being married as to all it promises but delivers very little. Sorry for the pessimism. 

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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Just to be on the safe side go online and check your phone bill.

Takes only 15 minutes.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

One thing that popped out of your post was the line "I asked about sex". When two people are out of the habit of physical intimacy asking in that matter makes it all the more uncomfortable and unappealing, kind of makes into a chore. Maybe you need a less direct approach like say spending the day flirting with her, romancing her, touching her..etc. 

What I'm saying is you two SLOWLY need to get use to the physical contact again, don't try to push it right into sex. Just a thought anyway.

It certainly could be a lot of other things, after 24 years together people drift apart, needs change, we change, life changes. At this point maybe you two aren't compatible any longer, that's a hard thing to wrap your brain around but it can be that simple.


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## bdbogus (Dec 3, 2016)

Cooper said:


> What I'm saying is you two SLOWLY need to get use to the physical contact again, don't try to push it right into sex. Just a thought



I tried that several years ago...put a lot of effort into it with no gain. So it kind of wore me down into asking for sex. Maybe not the best route but it has about the same "rate of return" as putting in a lot of effort....




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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So I get that you've talked about your needs.

Just curious.....do you know what your wife's needs are? Do you prioritize them?

Have you asked her what an ideal marriage looks like to her, intimacy and all?

It could well be that your idea of marriage is different, but I don't think that's often the case.

I honestly believe that not that many women are actually LD.....they aren't turned on by their hb.

Sometimes it's his fault, sometimes there's fault in both sides, and sometimes hb has nothing to do with it.

A little more about her perspective might be helpful to figure out which one is going on here.

Asking and pressuring her for sex and then rolling over po'd, while understandable, is unproductive. A pouting guy is a huge turnoff.

It becomes a nasty cycle. You don't get sex, feel frustrated and pressure her, she starts to think that everything you do is for sex and she's a warm body, you don't think that at all and really love her but you don't show it because you resent not getting sex, you pressure her again.....you're now both resentful and nobody's happy.

You've either got to get to the bottom of what's going on with her or accept that this is what you've got and make plans to move on.

Are you spending quality date time together outside of the bedroom?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I have two suggestions.

One, I will not suggest. It will provoke her. 

The second suggestion goes like this:

You tell a friend, you tell a neighbor, you tell an in-law.

You say that your marriage is no longer satisfactory. And that you may call it quits. Just say it off-hand...just in passing. Do not extrapolate. You are planting a tiny seed, with a big d1ck of a root.

A big heavily laden truck slowly heading down the road out front. You can hear the truck's springs squeak and the load shift inside the bed. The truck with the seed will dump the Mother Lode.

Can you juggle dynamite...Hmm?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

SunCMars said:


> I have two suggestions.
> 
> One, I will not suggest. It will provoke her.
> 
> ...



Terrible advise in my opinion. Adding a load of passive aggressive subversive crap to a shaky marriage will accomplish nothing.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

bdbogus said:


> I tried that several years ago...put a lot of effort into it with no gain. So it kind of wore me down into asking for sex. Maybe not the best route but it has about the same "rate of return" as putting in a lot of effort....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can see your point.

Another thought I had is this. You are gone during the week, during that time your wife and kids are living the family life and have their routines. When you come home on the weekend it disrupts the routine, especially for your wife, now she has another thing to deal with, it changes the dynamics. Is it possible she is resentful because of this? Is it possible she likes it better when you're not there?

When I was married my then wife was gone a lot, and the kids and I had a good solid routine. Then when she was home everything changed, she had no consideration or respect for our schedules or routines and it was upsetting, the tension level in our home increased dramatically when she was there, it was like she was a trespasser in our life. When she was there she thought we should be having sex like teenagers but the thing is I just didn't want to, I was stressed, anxious, pissed off and frustrated most of the time while she was there. Then when she left again I would bet money you could here the collective sigh of relaxation from me and the kids, probably even the dog. lol

Another perspective to think about.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Cooper said:


> I can see your point.
> 
> Another thought I had is this. You are gone during the week, during that time your wife and kids are living the family life and have their routines. When you come home on the weekend it disrupts the routine, especially for your wife, now she has another thing to deal with, it changes the dynamics. Is it possible she is resentful because of this? Is it possible she likes it better when you're not there?
> 
> ...


AaaahHemm. :-{

This is so sad...Sorry about that. But, you baled on her, not seeking a resolution. She came home horny and you rejected her. The fact that she was horny for you; that is a good thing. I presume that she only wanted sex from you, not other men while gone.

You ended your sad marriage. OK, not a complaint from me. You EXW was alpha, you are not. 
.........................................................................................................................
OP wants a solution............not an exit plan....yet!

Being a nice guy has not worked for him.

Being an semi-Alpha guy has not worked for him. He took an active role in intimacy. He initiated, she rejected. Over and over.

Being a communicator with her has not worked for him. 

Being the only one "concerned" about their marriages [Intimacy] status quo, OP is treading water.

OP has two major options:

1) Tell her that unless intimacy concerns are properly addressed, he wants out of the marriage. That is brute force. She may agree but will do so only because she "must" to keep her marriage intact. She certainly will become resentful. He will get sex, but no love and real intimacy. Token sex. OR, she may tell him to piss off, go ahead and leave.....all you want me for is sex. Once you threaten divorce there is no going back. Do not threaten D, if you are not serious. He also could put a separation on the table. Risky this: possible, though.

2) Let "Her" get anxious about her marriage. By going the passive route [letting her hear through the grapevine that her husband is unhappy in the marriage], he may get the results that he wants without getting in her face. Many people cannot be forced to do anything, but they can be manipulated. I could have used a different word here......Why? He would be manipulating her. Life is a game, marriage is a dance. His intentions are honorable....these tactics? No.


OP's motives are simple, he wants a loving wife. He needs to be a clever man. His end game, is "her end" in his hands...and she liking it.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

So here's a few suggestions.

First, as lifeistooshort said, do you know her needs? Really? Start that conversation first. Ask her. Get her to verbalize them. Is it financial security? Non-sexual intimacy?Quiet time? Whatever it is, get HER to tell you what they are.

Second, work to meet those needs. Not once but continually. Let's say she needs non-sexual intimacy. So you hold her hand while walking, cuddle while watching a movie, hugs and kisses before bed, getting up, in the middle of the day.

Third, get her to confirm those things meet her needs. If she says that she needs "dates" with you, then after a few "dates" say "You know, you mentioned you needed date a few weeks back. We've gone on a few since then. Do you think those helped meet your needs?" Get her to confirm you are meeting her needs.

Fourth, after a few months of continually doing this she may already change on her own. That's great. If she doesn't then you need another conversation with her pointing out that (a) she told you what her needs were and (b) you met those needs and (c) she confirmed you were meeting them. Now point out that your need for a "fulfilling, intimate sexual relationship" with her (NOT "sex") is one of your needs that have to be met. If it isn't it's only natural that someone not getting their needs met will find it hard to meet their needs.

What happens then? Good question. You have to give her some time to realize what you're saying but if she doesn't come around then I'd suggest marriage counseling. If she doesn't want to go, go alone and let her know you are going. It shows you're serious about addressing this problem.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It was at the 24 year mark that I left my ex. I should have left after the first year of marriage, but I was too naïve and too hopeful that things could change, to do so. I was going to wait until our son was off to college, but decided staying was setting a bad example for him and his future relationships. So, I left, eventually got into a wonderful relationship, and know I made the right decision.


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## bdbogus (Dec 3, 2016)

Chris Taylor said:


> So here's a few suggestions.
> 
> 
> 
> First, as lifeistooshort said, do you know her needs? Really? Start that conversation first. Ask her. Get her to verbalize them. Is it financial security? Non-sexual intimacy?Quiet time? Whatever it is, get HER to tell you what they are.



I've tried to get her to open up...no dice. She totally shuts down and won't discuss things or simply say "I don't know". I think that stems from seeing her parents in a loveless and non-communicative relationship. I know there are some deep internal issues as before we got married and had a discussion with the minister that was to marry us (we didn't know him prior to) trying to get to know us and our family a bit, I went through and discussed my family...wasn't all rosey, but my folks stuck it out and are still together and when it came to her, she was already crying prior to even talking....minister was kinda taken aback by that...



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## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

bdbogus said:


> Been married for over 18 years, together for right at 24 years, two kids (13 & 9), her 45, me 43. I'm the HD person and she's the LD. It's been this way for probably something like 15 years. In college, there were no signs glaring signs of a low drive. Things changed shortly after about a year of marriage. Almost as if she got the ring, so she's good.
> 
> I've made numerous attempts at letting her know my feelings and things never change. I think a good portion of her problems stem from her parents' marriage. They are still married but it's rather loveless. My FIL has had numerous affairs in the past and probably still has them even in his 70's. Its been like this for probably 35 years. Yet, my wife still lets her dad dote on her and she actually shows more affection towards him than she does me.
> 
> ...


Make very certain that your side of the street is clean. No passive-aggressive bs, no covert contracts.

Once that's done (and it almost certainly won't make any difference, but you need to be certain),

You tell her this: "I have no intention of living the rest of my life in a sexless marriage".

If nothing changes (and it probably won't) then you proceed to the 180 (read up on it if you haven't already).

You'll be doing this *for your own good*, not to win her back. It will help you begin to emotionally separate from her.

Only do things for her that you want to do for your own sake. Be pleasant, don't beg for sex. Focus on the kids. Get a hobby, go to the gym, hang out with the guys every week or two. Do not complain. Rub one out as needed.

If she asks you what's going on just tell her that you're now focusing on your own needs, 

After a while you'll be ready to move on. If she does start to come around, hopefully (for her) it'll be before you're emotionally gone.

The only way to save the marriage is to be okay with losing it.

The kids'll be fine.


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