# I came back home...she didn't like it. It's better now, I'm still kind of hopeful.



## Stillkindofhopefull

For the history to what led to this point, I have another thread in the Divorce and Separation forum.

It's been 9 months since trouble started mounting. The last 6 have been bad. The last 3 have been horrible.

The last 2 weeks, there has been a change. It is what brings me here. Prayerfully, thankfully and finally.

We are not out of the woods. Just agreeing to see the trees within the forest and not just saying "the forest is too big, we'll never get out, you go your way, I'll go mine."

To quickly recap...

In April things were fine. Great. I was rearranging my businesses and opening a clinic so I could spend more time with the family.

By July, something was wrong.

By the end of July, early August, she said she shouldn't have married me...she was depressed and in a fog.

A couple months later, she "loved me, but wasn't in love with me." She wasn't attracted the way a wife should be to her husband.

A month or so later, she came back from a wedding out of state (with her sister and cousins)...we had a falling out, she saw that I had texted an ex...an ongoing issue that I didn't see the same as she...they were few and far between and never inappropriate. I acknowledged in the argument that I sometimes looked at things I shouldn't online, when weren't having much intimacy...those two issues then became the focus of "what was really wrong"...why she didn't feel close to me, along with my time working and on Facebook, seemingly.

By October, even though I kept thinking, "surely this isn't real...surely things aren't this bad??"...on Halloween, we were all out as a family trick-or-treating...that Monday, when the girls came home from their dad's, I was gone. Per her request and insistence. I moved home to stay with my mom and dad so she "could have her space."

That is basically where I started the first thread.

It turned out, she had met another guy, much the way she met me again...looked me up on FB. A youth pastor a couple hours away that she had also gone to college with. Though they physically never met, I came across journal entries, letters to him and letters to me just before Christmas that tied it all together.

I confronted him at his church. She was livid, and the next day moved out of the house (I had moved back in a couple weeks before Christmas...she wasn't happy about that).

My basic plan...in all of this...if you want to call it a plan because a lot of it was just trying to make it day by day and not do anything to possibly jeopardize my attempt at getting custody of our son...was to take a lot of the advice I received on here, and use it while following my faith.

I read NMMRG, MMSLP but also "Love Must be Tough", "Women's Infidelity" and a long article on reconciling with a wife with a hardened heart. That article, is an important one, I took it's advice and wrote a letter the way it described and it turned out to be the first of a 3-day event that ended with a church service on forgiveness, that prompted her return and desire to want to try to work things out.

That was 2 weeks ago.

She went on a long-awaited, and debated, mission trip. She got back a few days ago.

There were times I still thought "if you are wanting to reconcile, why don't you try to communicate a little more" while she was gone...to me they were simple things... "good night, good morning"...I didn't argue about anything while she was gone, I've learned not to look like a victim. When she did text, I responded positively. When she didn't, I didn't initiate.

When she came back, she had gotten me a souvenir...it was a carved wooden statue of a faceless man and woman holding a baby...which she mentioned to our son when he was looking at it, that it was him. She also mentioned us living in a smaller house if our current one sold...both great signs of progress.

We still don't communicate the best...which is hard on me, I'm more the talker, for sure. But we've addressed trust issues and have made good progress in a short time. Leaps and bounds compared to a month ago.

But my family came over last night and we had pizza and movie night.

She showed me photos of her trip and invited me to our oldest 
daughter's band concert.

For anyone that isn't familiar with my story, we were full on for divorce as well. It has been "put on hold" to this point.

The letter on Valentine's Day, a custody issue with her ex, that happened the next day, followed but the church service on forgiveness the day after that, in her words "woke her up" to what she was doing to her family.

I've tried to be consistent in giving her her space, but she also knew I loved her and would love her through this because I told her. Her mom recently told me that my commitment to her has played a large role in this, that I didn't just say one thing and then go out and meet someone else. But too much attempted interaction on my part is also a notable sign of weakness and unattractive.

For more details, check the previous thread. I definitely haven't done everything right and I've lost 20 pounds in the process. But this is where we are at now.

It isn't perfect but it is real life and is finally headed in a better direction. It's also important to note that I now know that if (heaven forbid) we don't work out, I am still going to be okay. The confidence on knowing that, having learned it the hard way, IS attractive. 

I don't talk to other girls, that would have been easier during the harder times for sure...but I haven't texted/talked with anyone that was available or could be considered tempting. No dating sites. 

I've listened to a lot of Joel Osteen on XM. That has also helped. I can't say I agree with EVERYthing he says, but the overall positive message really has helped.

Thanks for reading.


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## jld

_I read NMMRG, MMSLP but also "Love Must be Tough", "Women's Infidelity" and *a long article on reconciling with a wife with a hardened heart. That article, is an important one, I took its advice and wrote a letter the way it described and it turned out to be the first of a 3-day event that ended with a church service on forgiveness, that prompted her return and desire to want to try to work things out*._

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Ups and downs.
I still tend to over analyze and make myself anxious without any real justification at times...and then there are times where things just don't make sense.
I've made

But it seems that whenever I start to wonder if the chance is still legitimate because I'm starting to doubt...something will happen.

Case in point, we are talking about methods to reconcile and she is in it, but doesn't seem sold on it and I start to question it...that was yesterday morning. The day drug on a bit after that, then near the end of the day she calls to tell me she is getting the kids together with my sister in law and her kids to go watch a movie tomorrow and wanted to know if I wanted to come...even acknowledging that she wanted to give me enough notice that I could get coverage for the martial arts school since that is a class night.

I sad yes, and was happy but assumed my SIL talked her into it, but she didn't. It was more my wife's idea.

That was heartening.

Tonight we went out to dinner...meeting up at the restaurant, as a family. Then I had to pick something up at the store that she had at her house and invited me over to give me some, so I did. Good time with the kids but my son sure didn't want to see me go.

She called me this afternoon and even met my son and I at one of his appointments.

On the other hand, she is planning a vacation that she, I think, mentioned to me at one point but that the kids are telling me all about.

She also thanks me for taking them out...like we're friends...because...pretty much we are.

We don't hug or kiss much...well, we don't kiss at all and hug only some.

I'm still seeing a lot more of the wife I used to know but we are far from intimacy.

Compared to a month ago, it is great.
Compared to my timeline, I just want her to hug me and tell me she loves me and this will never happen again...and that is a long ways off.

She is back to wearing both rings again instead of just the band.

No set counseling appointments and I'm not real sure where we are going with that...part of me doesn't want that route.
Considering reading "His Needs/Her Needs" as a couple.

Are there still concerns she is friend-zoning me? Sometimes, yes.

But I'm seeing the kids more and she is initiating a decent number of texts...even though she can also drop off mid-text conversation at times and that is irritating but I don't keep at it. If she stops when it is otherwise her turn, I wait until she initiates again. 

That is where we are at right now.


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## jld

Why do you not want to go to counseling, Still?


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## the guy

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> I'm still seeing a lot more of the wife I used to know but we are far from intimacy.
> 
> .


The question is...is you your wife seeing the man she wanted so many years ago?

Is that guy still around..if so she just might want to bang your brains out!

I just hate to see a husband get stuck in the friend zone with their old lady. It might be time to spring on her with a quick passionate kiss, just show her a thing or two...IDK...what worked so many years ago that made her want you? Maybe buy her something bright and shinny...like a necklace or earrings?


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Re: counseling...partly because the only counseling we did, did not go well...and that matched up with a lot of other comments I've read in here and some of the statistics about counseling actually making things worse.

So I think there is a bit of a fear-avoidance factor.

We're considering marriagemax.com.

Because we both realize there are some hard conversations coming our way, I think I'm trying to build up a few good memories first to help bolster some of the harder times coming.

We both acknowledge not wanting to rug sweep. I think we both may feel a little, or a lot fragile right now so we aren't doing anything too heavy yet.

I do think about kissing her...with meaning. Usually for now we are around the kids...not a lot of alone time. I can start to see it happening a little easier than I could have two weeks ago.

I am getting back to my old self...as far as the guy that initially attracted her, but we also did a lot of stuff back then that she seemingly regrets having done now. She was also in a different state of mind now than she was then so some of it wouldn't fly right now that she used to really enjoy back then.


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## EleGirl

It sounds like things are starting to go better. I'm glad to hear that. I might be two steps forward, one step back for a while.

Take a look at the book linked to in my signature line below for building a passionate marriage. They are excellent for rebuilding your marriage. I think they are better than any counselor I've ever been to, that's for sure.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

This is one of my "down" moments...more like "anxious" I think. I'm not used to feeling this way but I've gotten more accustomed to it since all this began.

And it may be no big deal. But this is what I'm feeling and this is why...

We had dinner and it went fine, I went over there and played with the kids a for a bit and picked something up. (Sidenote - there was a moment when she into her bedroom to get it and stayed a couple minutes...I wanted to follow her in, but didn't...anyway...)

A little later I sent her this thing from FB that related to her and was funny, we went back and forth a bit, she was quick to reply, then nothing...it just ended again. Not a big deal. 

I could tell later that she read it, but she hasn't been on since, for like, 9 hours, which is better than being on since we spoke and her still not responding.
That is one of the little situations that results in me feeling anxious at times...and she addressed it indirectly yesterday saying that she doesn't have a lot of data so when she is on FB or other sites, she just flips through for a minute...doesn't watch videos or anything because her and her daughter went over their plan last month. 
That is like her. And I didn't bring anything up, so it was kind of reassuring she isn't facetiming anyone...I know, we never REALLY know.
This morning I stopped by and put my son's coat at her front door on my way back from the gym and sent her a text stating that. She asked me last night about it but said she could make due.
She responded...pretty much the same, that I didn't have to do that, that she could have made due with what they had.
I replied that she lives less than a mile from the gym so it wasn't a big deal and if he needed it, it would be worth it. 
She responded "thanks."
Again, nothing bad, but I would have appreciated more of a "Thanks! You didn't have to do that."
Reading into texts messages aren't the best thing to do.

I'm not working today, the weather is bad and I cancelled the clinic.

I left her a message to call me. I'd like to spend at least part of the day with my son...and even hang out with her...but in all honesty, I don't want to spend a full day with her yet. Not if we aren't really doing anything. I just don't want it to be uncomfortable.

I used to love doing nothing with her...and I probably still would if I knew she loved it, too.

So, there it is, nothing too big, but I still get this feeling. I know scripture says to focus on the good, so I am trying. Honestly, things are only getting better...they just aren't there yet.

If it weren't for missing time with the kids and "us" as a family, I wouldn't worry as much about it. But I just don't like missing the days. I don't want to come across as needy. I just like being with my family. 

Not sure if there is much advice out there for these moments, except to just try to relax and stay busy doing something else?


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## Stillkindofhopefull

I think I wish I would have gone on to work.
She did call me. We talked a bit. She let my son talk on the phone and he heard me and said, "daddy back!" again and again.

It was more awkward. I feel weak right now and I'm sure it showed because I want to be with him and I'm in this big house with things that need to be done that I don't want to do because I'm focused on them.

She didn't invite me over. She said I could come by and get him before she goes to get the girls. I mentioned feeling stir crazy and she recommended going to my folks or something, that that is what she does. 

I brought up the book "His Needs/Her Needs" and she didn't think "a book is what would fix this"...I agreed but felt we needed some kind of plan.

She felt just spending more time together like we are doing is a good start but not "every day" that she isn't ready for that yet. That she still needs her alone time, ofherwise she would have moved back in already.

Here is one of my questions...because this is fragile and could go either way...I realize I have to be confident...which today wasn't my best. But we need boundaries, too...some kind of expectation. 

I want my family back and so I don't want to date anyone else...but I would like to have a solid answer from her as to whether or not we are able/should be talking to anyone of the opposite sex..."like a friend"

I did have another ex contact me over the weekend. I made it clear I was working on fixing my situation but it was nice to have someone else to text to...she is in the same situation and I told her I want to be able to look her husband in the eye and shake his hand so we kept it cordial and agreed that neither of us would do anything to hurt the others marriage.

But having someone else to talk to during the day helps me not think about my wife...and if she is doing that, I want to know.

Thoughts?

I do consider options like moving on with the divorce...I see that recommended on some other's posts but I want to be very careful about trying to reconcile...and then recommend we still divorce in the process. It will get messy again because of my son and the custody.

I just don't want to do anything stupid in the moment of weakness or anger.


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## Tobyboy

Be honest with yourself Still. Whats going on? Have your feelings for your WW changed? There's so much desperation in your words.....kinda like "hurry up and let's get this reconciliation started before I totally stop giving a sh!t".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Stillkindofhopefull

That's a good question.

I don't think they've changed...I know I love her and that I want this family to make it and for us to grow closer than ever as a couple.

I have realized through all of this that I can be happy without her...you get to a point where you have to admit that almost anything else is better than what you are going through.

But I don't want that.

What I also don't want is this feeling of anxiety...the lack of clarity and feeling like I have little control in this process. My son is young, we are all split up...he and she and my family are worth the wait but I do get flashbacks from some of the letters (that she never sent, so he never read, to my knowledge) about how she is just going to have to "live unhappily ever after" and that he should check up on her and she would him, and that she can be very patient. So when I start to see less than apparent interest on her part, my mind tends to go there.

I basically just have moments still when my fears can get the best of me. It's not like it was, but when it does, it's still pretty strong.

But yeah, in a nutshell, I think you quoted it pretty right, sometimes I feel like "hurry up and let's get..."
That's pretty much where I'm at, at the moment.

I look forward to posting again when I don't feel this way and we've made a little more progress.

Someone said it will likely be a process of "two steps forward, one step back" at times. I think this is one of those times.

Thanks for responding. This helps.


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## happy as a clam

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> I did have another ex contact me over the weekend. I made it clear I was working on fixing my situation but *it was nice to have someone else to text to...*she is in the same situation and I told her I want to be able to look her husband in the eye and shake his hand so *we kept it cordial and agreed that neither of us would do anything to hurt the others marriage.*
> 
> *But having someone else to talk to during the day helps me not think about my wife...*


Whoa, Still...

If you're serious about reconciling with your wife, this is the quickest way to sabotage it! 

I would strongly suggest that you not text this other woman. You already have issues with contacting ex-girlfriends in the past that caused significant problems and/or grief for your wife. I really wouldn't go down that road again.

If you really need someone else to talk to, why not PM one the TAM men on your thread? And talk away, without an ounce of guilt!

:scratchhead:


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## 3Xnocharm

I think you need to let it go, she does not sound like she truly wants this R or to have to put in the time and work for it. You are desperately clinging to hope where there really doesnt seem to be much. Sorry if that is a downer opinion, but that is what I am seeing.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

You know, I don't know that she sees her EA in the same light I do. I think she feels pretty justified in the hurt that led up to the point she is at. That that is a reason why she isn't as remorseful. 

She said this would take time, and she does things towards our relationship that she really didn't have to...the gift, the movie...she could have given me anything to say she got me a souvenir. So I see more potential in her than I have in a long time and she doesn't realize I have these letters (I have pictures) that have been able to read and that have stayed in the back of my mind when I start to get frustrated.

I hear you though, I wonder the same thing at times. I try to take over those thoughts because where your thoughts go your actions follow and we could certainly ruin any chance we have pretty easily.

Happy...I agree.


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## Regretf

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> You know, I don't know that she sees her EA in the same light I do. I think she feels pretty justified in the hurt that led up to the point she is at. That that is a reason why she isn't as remorseful.
> 
> *I'm with you on this, my W doesn't see her "relationship" to her former friend like an EA, but i do, it contributed to our separation which led to our up comming D.*
> 
> She said this would take time, and she does things towards our relationship that she really didn't have to...the gift, the movie...she could have given me anything to say she got me a souvenir. So I see more potential in her than I have in a long time and she doesn't realize I have these letters (I have pictures) that have been able to read and that have stayed in the back of my mind when I start to get frustrated.
> 
> I hear you though, I wonder the same thing at times. I try to take over those thoughts because where your thoughts go your actions follow and we could certainly ruin any chance we have pretty easily.
> 
> Happy...I agree.


Just want you to know that you are in my prayers everynight, 'am pulling for you and your family, whatever path you chose God will be with you.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Thank you Reg, I think of you often. When I saw your post I just stopped and prayed specifically for you.

Things really have improved, but as they do, when I see things slow down or lose ground, it brings back a lot of the hurt and anxiety that I had started getting behind me. It is worth it, assuming this works, it is worth it. Praying that it works. I pray for her heart and for her mind, mine as well.

I don't know where your wife is at re: faith...as much as my wife got things twisted up in it...it is also going to be the only thing that works this out. It has to be a change of the heart which can change the mind.

I can tell when my thoughts go to anxiety (which has never been a real issue for me that I can recall) and insecurity (which has been a real issue for me) and doubt...that my actions follow and I look weak in front of her and that results in the step back.

I don't know where you are in your faith...and I'm not the one to learn from obviously, but man that is the ONLY thing that keeps me in this...I mean, the love does obviously, but my belief that God can heal this is the difference maker.

Typing on here has really helped, too.

I know I look weak on here at times but I'd rather bring it here than show it to her. I have another friend and my sister in law that I can vent to and it has prevented a world of weakness and setbacks had I shown it to her instead. She has seen enough of those as it is.

Reg, I want to stay in better contact with you on here. Do you have a thread? 

I do believe present problems can make for future testimonies. That is what I pray this turns into...that maybe we went through this...and I've posted basically all of my heart on here, that others might see...and see that we did work out in the end, and be encouraged.

Are you praying specifically for your wife? Her heart and mind? Do you believe that it can get better? Trust me...I obviously have my moments, like this morning. But we are making progress. 

There is a book I'm reading now called "Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Meyers. That is spot on re: how my mind works and probably yours too. Download it if you don't care and we can read it at the same time.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

She texted me just a bit ago asking about setting up the house differently "if/when" we were to live together again as a family.

We had initially agreed to move elsewhere so that we could all still be on one level. That part doesn't matter as much as just getting the text that she is still thinking about things that much.

I need to still learn to not get too worked up and anxious...and then definitely not to act on those anxious feelings. Easier said than done...you can't just make it "go away" but I listened to my pastor on the radio (so did she), he has a new show, today was the first airing of it, and that helped. I was listening to it as I typed that last one. I could even see a difference in myself between that one and the one from this morning.

For me, keeping into that frame of mind really helps. Listening to sermons or similar. Kind of like a "self-help book" read aloud.


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## Regretf

Stillkindofhopefull said:


> Thank you Reg, I think of you often. When I saw your post I just stopped and prayed specifically for you.
> 
> Things really have improved, but as they do, when I see things slow down or lose ground, it brings back a lot of the hurt and anxiety that I had started getting behind me. It is worth it, assuming this works, it is worth it. Praying that it works. I pray for her heart and for her mind, mine as well.
> 
> I don't know where your wife is at re: faith...as much as my wife got things twisted up in it...it is also going to be the only thing that works this out. It has to be a change of the heart which can change the mind.
> 
> I can tell when my thoughts go to anxiety (which has never been a real issue for me that I can recall) and insecurity (which has been a real issue for me) and doubt...that my actions follow and I look weak in front of her and that results in the step back.
> 
> I don't know where you are in your faith...and I'm not the one to learn from obviously, but man that is the ONLY thing that keeps me in this...I mean, the love does obviously, but my belief that God can heal this is the difference maker.
> 
> Typing on here has really helped, too.
> 
> I know I look weak on here at times but I'd rather bring it here than show it to her. I have another friend and my sister in law that I can vent to and it has prevented a world of weakness and setbacks had I shown it to her instead. She has seen enough of those as it is.
> 
> Reg, I want to stay in better contact with you on here. Do you have a thread?
> 
> I do believe present problems can make for future testimonies. That is what I pray this turns into...that maybe we went through this...and I've posted basically all of my heart on here, that others might see...and see that we did work out in the end, and be encouraged.
> 
> Are you praying specifically for your wife? Her heart and mind? Do you believe that it can get better? Trust me...I obviously have my moments, like this morning. But we are making progress.
> 
> There is a book I'm reading now called "Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Meyers. That is spot on re: how my mind works and probably yours too. Download it if you don't care and we can read it at the same time.


Hi Still,

When i read your thread a while ago and read that your W wanted a R i was so thrilled for you, for your family, for your son, because i knew that's what you always hoped for, another chance, God is giving you that chance, of course it won't be an easy path but with faith, work and love it can be done. I pray for you and your family everyday.

I do have a thread in the Going thru Separation or Divorce, you can read it if you like and see where 'am at.

My W is not the most religious person, more an agnostic i would say, a neighbour of us ran into her in december and told her to go meet and talk to the priest about our situation, she didn't of course.

I'm not the most religious person either but since all of this started i have tried to become a more spiritual person and many special people far more faith orientated tha me have give me a lot of strenght. I'm on my own spiritual path right now, trying to find myself and purpose in this world, elevate my own spirituality.

I do pray, but my faith is inconsistant, i have prayed for my wife's heart to be soften but not on a constant basis as i have come to accept the fact that us getting back together is a very, very seldom possibility, at least not in the forseable future. As you do know God gave us freewill and my W is excersing that at the momento. You can't force someone to love you or want to be with you when they clearly don't.

Hope is the last thing that you lose, but also can kill you, as if you are there waiting for "something" to happen and it doesn't, well, you get more and more dissapointed.

Right now i'm concentrated on becoming a better person and father, fixing my own issues and being the best versión fo me that i can be. I'm fighting for more time with my son right now. Some of my W actions have been very selfish and dissapointing, so as it is right now i'm not counting on a R, which maybe in a few years i will see as the best thing that needed to happen. Breaks my heart because of my son, that is the ONE thing that's keeping me down. I failed, we failed in providing him with the chance of growing up in an intact family.

I downloaded the book, will read it ad comment with you.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Great! I'm only on the 8th one. They are pretty short, but powerful reads.

The one I read today was right on in relation to what we are talking about... it is based on the scripture in Proverbs 23:7.

For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.

That proves very true in my life. And it goes both ways. When I'm doubtful and insecure or angry and don't see it getting better, it doesn't because I do things that aren't promoting a happy ending. 
But the whole 180 (as much as a person can do with kids) and letting them see you being okay with things and putting your life back together without them, is attractive and makes them wonder what they are giving up. The underside to that, for me, is that I still believed that the end result would be us working it out. Even if it seemed far away...as it was so often. 

Sometimes I have to remind myself...or read, or listen to the sermons to keep me from getting too far away...and sometimes I still get too far away...it was happening this morning. Self-doubt creeps up and the ideas that we will never really work, never really be happy...we can never have real intimacy again...they start to dominate and I question things. Those thoughts are self-defeating and also self-fulfilling.

Things did end up taking a turn for the better today. 
She texted me after the house comment and said she is going to be putting a complete stop to the divorce. So that neither of us can say "screw this, I'm done" in the middle of reconciliation...which was my main concern for her.
It was a huge step. 

She said it was a big leap of faith on her part but feels it is the right thing to do. 

This is the type of change in heart that faith can perform in due time...it is the type of change that had to happen if we were to ever have a chance.

I'll check out your thread. I'm not the best example of this, and our situation has "faith" all mixed up in it, but without it, we'd have never gotten out if it either...at least not this far. Consider your faith and possibly see what God can do in this. 

It won't make it a lot easier...sometimes more peaceful. But it helps get us through when we'd otherwise want to stop and give up.


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## Openminded

If you are seriously trying to R then do *not* text old girlfriends (or any other female you might have had even a slight interest in). It's much too easy to end up in an EA. Or worse. 

You are far too focused on her every move. That's not good for any of you.


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## Stillkindofhopefull

Open - I agree. She texted me at a point where I was getting frustrated again with waiting for a response from her...one thing that I have come to identify since all this has begun is the feeling of anxiety...I can't say it's horrible...I don't know what horrible feels like, maybe it is...it definitely leaves me feeling more vulnerable at the time which is, just like you said, why it is easy for it to turn into more.

But we haven't since then. I have no intentions. At the time it just happened out of the blue. We ended up encouraging each other to make the best with what you have and left it at that.

You're right about being too focused. I felt like I was hearing one thing though, and seeing another and it set me back. And really, most of my fears had been wrong, but I was playing to them anyway. The sermons and having a friend and my sister in law to text/talk to make a big difference.

Now that she is wanting to completely call off the divorce so that neither of us can "give up that easy" I can see she is putting more skin in the game and it changes my perception. She is talking family vacations again and we could even joke a little about husband/wife things. Those are the actions that are correlating with the words. It makes a big difference.


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