# It has started finally



## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Although not as planned.

I started cleaning things out, tossing things in the trash, basically making it easy for a move. She asked what I was doing and I told her just some cleaning out.

The plan was to sit her down Sunday when she was off and I finished early in the day.

However, as she was taking a bath, with a glass (Bottle) of wine, she was texting someone. Her text messages pop up on her ipad as well so I could see the replies, but not what she sent.

For someone that wants to be alone and relax/cool down after work, she certainly sent a good amount of messages. It was to a guy co-worker. She talked about buying a vibrator. Whether it was for her or for a friend, I don't know. That sent me over the top.

When she got out of the bath I asked her politely to show me her phone. She handed it to me but when I asked her to unlock it (Duh!) she said not until I told her why. So a little back and forth until finally she realized I knew SOME of what was being said.

*<Is it inappropriate for a wife to be taking a hot bath, drinking wine, texting a male co-worker at 1am, talking about vibrators, whether for her or not? Serious question>*

She then tried to convince me that it was private stuff between her two friends and that she was in the middle. She had to respect their privacy but would ask them if it's OK to share the information with me the next day. OF COURSE I said "After you delete it, sure."

Without going crazy, I went straight to my closet and started packing my clothes. She put 2 and 2 together and realized that the packing was preparation for leaving. She started to blame me for not understanding, yada yada yada. I pulled out the papers, put them on her desk and told her to sign so that she doesn't have to put up with me. She didn't, she kept coming at me.

For a good hour as I was packing, she tried to blame me for this and that. In one ear, out the other.

It was too late to leave the apartment and stay anywhere else that night so I slept in a different room. She came running in and shoved the phone in my face and said "See!" as though I was an idiot and couldn't POSSIBLY figure that she would erase the damning evidence.

I will say this, I slept much better than I thought. No great, but I wasn't up all night crying or anything. She got up and went to work. She's a hard worker. 

A few minutes ago she sent me a text asking if she could talk to me on her break. Of course. Will that change anything, of course not.

I hope that my feelings stay this way for the duration. I called my sister and there's financial support for me to get out if needed, which is awesome to know. I still have to sort out my personal finances and debt (My share) before anything gets finalized.

She still hasn't signed.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Can anyone tell me if the above bold is an issue, if you were in a marriage that you wanted to hold onto? This is just another nail in the coffin for her but I doubt she sees it as 'bad behavior'. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive? 

She wants to have 'brunch' outside somewhere to talk things over. She says at home we will get overly aggressive. She was the one who went over the top. I stayed cool the whole time. Not sure what having a 'nice brunch' will do. I told her I would think about it. But the answer is no. Sunday comes it will be home and signing.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Too_Bad said:


> Can anyone tell me if the above bold is an issue, if you were in a marriage that you wanted to hold onto? This is just another nail in the coffin for her but I doubt she sees it as 'bad behavior'. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive?
> 
> She wants to have 'brunch' outside somewhere to talk things over. She says at home we will get overly aggressive. She was the one who went over the top. I stayed cool the whole time. Not sure what having a 'nice brunch' will do. I told her I would think about it. But the answer is no. Sunday comes it will be home and signing.


What you bolded is absolutely not ok. The only possible exception is if he's her gay BFF or something. And even then, it's really not appropriate.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

SecondTime'Round said:


> What you bolded is absolutely not ok. The only possible exception is if he's her gay BFF or something. And even then, it's really not appropriate.


Alright. I see it as not OK. How would you explain it though? I'm finding the wording hard as I have to dumb it down a little. I will have to explain it.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Too_Bad said:


> Alright. I see it as not OK. How would you explain it though? I'm finding the wording hard as I have to dumb it down a little. I will have to explain it.


I think I'd ask her questions instead of making statements. Make her explain herself and why she thinks it's ok.

Why were you in the tub texting a male coworker about your new vibrator?
What did you tell him about the vibrator?
Did you want him to picture you using your vibrator?
Do you think it's ok that someone other than your husband talks to you about sex, and about your vibrator?

Is this man married?


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Very good!! That's what I will do!! Thank you!!


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I see the conversation as inappropriate. And if she wanted to stay in the marriage, her loyalty to a concerned spouse would (should) trump any loyalty to a "friend"

Making her explain the conversation is all well and good, but if your experience is anything like mine, the explanations will be all lies, gas-lighting, blame-shifting, history- rewriting lies.

I'm sorry.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Too_Bad said:


> Can anyone tell me if the above bold is an issue, if you were in a marriage that you wanted to hold onto? This is just another nail in the coffin for her but I doubt she sees it as 'bad behavior'. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive?
> 
> She wants to have 'brunch' outside somewhere to talk things over. She says at home we will get overly aggressive. She was the one who went over the top. I stayed cool the whole time. Not sure what having a 'nice brunch' will do. I told her I would think about it. But the answer is no. Sunday comes it will be home and signing.


No sir. Texting a male co-worker while in the tub and the conversation pertains to vibrators is a no no. It is very inappropriate. You are not too sensitive at all.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

She is away over the line talking to any guy at 1am while she is naked in a bath and talking about sexual apparatus too! This is the kind of stuff a woman should be doing with her husband not another man. Dont back down on this one, I don't care how liberal either of you are in your thinking, it is so not appropriate!


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone. 

I knew what she was texting because her messaging app was also on her ipad which displays part of the conversation.

She asked "Are you spying on me?" I didn't answer. Technically, yes. But not without reason. How would you explain that? Again dumbing it down.

She's waiting for me at home. She thinks she's going to be able to explain everything.


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## breezycello (May 29, 2015)

Oh man, having a conversation with any man, other than you - her husband, about anything sexual is just wrong...in my opinion. I can tell you; however, that my husband truly believes that he can go out and have a beer with his OW because they have been friends for many years that should not mean he want to jump in her pants...seriously...That is really not OK either. Don't lower your standards and/or morals for what she thinks is ok. She does need to know that you feel it is totally unacceptable.

I would be honest with how you stumbled onto her messages and why you are concerned. People only are spied on when they give the indication that something "not right" is going on. I do feel that we are all entitled privacy, even within our marriages..but if there is a concern then all is fair game. And really, that should be acceptable always. You don't have to tiptoe around here. You did not do anything wrong. 

I am sorry. Deceit is ugly.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Too Bad, how did it go last night? Are you ok?


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> Too Bad, how did it go last night? Are you ok?


Last night nothing happened. I got home and went straight to the other room. She was home after me. She probably checked in on me as the door was open. She also saw that I had packed almost all my stuff.

I came home today to her wanting to talk. She gave me all sorts of reasons for her behavior. Nothing worked. I have audio of her nonchalantly talking about her PA. That should be enough to end things. I feel like **** and good at the same time. I can't explain things.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

The conflict in your feelings makes perfect sense. She admitted the PA, giving you that concrete closure to what has been eating you up inside. The crappy feeling is knowing that someone you loved could betray you like that, and that the relationship is over.

Go easy on yourself. Eat good food, go easy on liquor (if you drink), sleep when you can. Work out. These feelings are hard to handle. In time, I think you will be just fine.

And have you gone to the doctor? Get tested, discuss possible depression or at least warning signs.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

If the OM is married, but sure to let his wife know all about it.

Have you exposed to her family and yours about her A?

Maybe wait and use that to get her to sign the papers.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

She has no family anymore. It's just her. I haven't told my family. They live in my native country. I told my sister about the D and asked for financial help. 

She never denied the PA. I caught right as it happened. There was no denying it. She said it was a mistake. However, in the new conversation I hears, she told her friend she liked him and that's why it happened. That was a first for me.

I'm depressed. I want my wife back. Thw woman I married. I want her back so bad it hurts all over.

I'm a gym rat, but since all this I just can't go. My diet is strict, but now I'm relying on protein powder and greens drinks for all my food. I can't eat.

I am already on meds for a oanic disorder I developed long ago, pre-marriage. I'm physically addicted to them and have been slowly tapering off. Unfortunately, it looks lije it's now rhe only thing that can settle my nerves. 

I started drinking a few days ago. I know that's not good. But it also seems to settle me down AND keep me from trying to figure a way to sway her back to me.

I put the audio file on her computer and labeled it 'listen to me', mistake maybe. I can't think clearly. After I left for work she sent a message saying 'I knew you were wiring me. There is no trust anymore. Sorry for everything'

I go home at lunch, it's a short work day. I want to leave now. I want to cry. A grown man crying at work.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

I am so sorry this is happening. I know the feelings. 
Do not start drinking. Alcohol is a depressant and can actually make you feel worse. Talk to your Dr. about whether or not now is the time to ween off of your anxiety meds. Also consider an anti depressant. It can help. 

Also, I know you would probably be embarrassed to cry at work, But a good cry does in fact release toxins and make you feel better and functional. So let yourself cry as soon as you can. 

And hey, if all you can eat is protien powder and green drinks...at least it's somewhat healthy.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I've always thought the healthiest thing we can do for ourselves is to actually express the emotions we feel. Happy-laugh, sad-cry. Male or female is irrelevant. Hiding your emotions isn't a sign of strength, its repression.

Yay, I'm not sure putting the audio on her computer was a strategically good move, but too late now. So you know, she knows, and now she knows you know.

Start working the 180, strictly. It will help you detach. I know that emotionally that is not what you want, but my friend, right now that is probably what you need.


And about getting your wife back, let me ask. Did the woman you fell in love with routinely sleep around with other men? I ask, because it sounds as though the woman you loved has left the building. It doesn't mean a reconciliation isn't possible. But lots of things have to happen. She has to stop seeking out other men, end all contact with other men, give you full access to all her electronics, and agree to couple's therapy. Unless she agrees, she is not committed to you and your marriage. You deserve someone who is.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

What you want is a past version of her that you are not sure that ever existed. Bad thing about seeing and talking to your wife is that she triggers a lot of emotional memories and hormonal responses.

She may not have ever been the person you love, but an illusion that she sold you, or she gradually change over time that you did not notice until recently, either way, she is not the person you believe she is at the moment.

Kubler-Ross's DABDA model is not only for grief, but also major change in belief, loss of a relationship, and other life altering events. It is more commonly known as the stages of grief.

The 180 is made to emotionally distance yourself and get a better picture and to help you reach neutral.

Love is a double-edged sword, it can give us a sense of fulfillment or it can cause a lot of suffering. You wanting your wife back is you needing that love fix. But the problem is she is causing you suffering and at the present, she is capable of giving you that love fix as well. Love is an addiction, and sometimes the people we love are toxic to us, our health.

Also, the trouble with depression is that once you start heading down that path, it is hard to climb back out. You are setting your brain circuit to operate in a depressed state, and new behavior, habits, will be formed with your thought process and how your emotional state is. Please seek help to stay mentally healthy.

Your new focus should be placed on your well-being.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

She has a physical affair with another man, then after that you find that she is having a chat with another man about vibrators. Whatever your future holds, you will someday be very relieved to be outside that awful environment and away from such a cold heartless person.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the support.

I know drinking is bad. I did drink yesterday as we spoke simply because it was all I could do to calm my nerves.

She said that it all started when we lived in our last apartment. She says that she's certainly not blaming me, but herself. She thought that bringing her mother and her family troubles into our lives was what cause my anxiety attacks. I'm also on an anti-depressant for the anxiety attacks. Like I said, I don't get them anymore and haven't had them in years. Looking back, I think it was something that could've been handled without the meds, but that's another story.

She confided her PA with her friend, the voice recording. In it, there was some information I didn't know that I wanted to know. She said, in the recording, that before the day of the PA that nothing happened. The day of, it just happened. I had always thought that something did happen before and after. She confided in her friend that nothing did. That was a bit of a relief.

I told her I was divorcing my roommate. I explained the difference between having a wife and a roommate. There is debt in her name that we both share. I'm not one to run away from responsibility so I told her I would take my share of the debt and put it on my credit card. Living a single life is cheap for me, it won't take long to pay it off.

Tears naturally followed. Her's, not mine. I stayed neutral. This went on for about 8 hours.

*I asked the questions about the chatting and vibrator.*

Q: Why were you chatting with a male co-worker about vibrators.
A: The profile name is a male name, but it's a female co-worker.

(That's believable, since I have the same things on my phone and with the language as it is, I can't tell by the text whether it's male or female.)

Q: Why keep it a secret?
A: She has a problem, like we have. She's having trouble with sex and her boyfriend. I wanted to respect her privacy?

Q: Even if that meant causing me pain?
A: I didn't mean for it to hurt you, I'm so sorry.

Q: Why spend so much time on someone else's sexual problems when you have your own to deal with here?
A: I was searching for toys for us. I was focused on us.

Q: Why didn't your friend order her own toy?
A: She lives with her family. They would find it and she would be embarrassed. 

Q: Why not tell me you ordered a toy? I saw the 'non-discrete' box.
A: I didn't know that's how it would come. I wasn't trying to keep it a secret.

At this point other things started to take priority over the conversation. This one isn't over yet.

I asked her why she wants me around? Why she hasn't asked for a divorce? Why she's talked about divorce with her friend (Part of the audio and a message I caught 3 months ago).

She says she doesn't want a divorce. She wants to be happy. She says that she was thinking about divorce because she saw how unhappy I was (That's the 180 I was doing). She admitted that there were things that she couldn't do, like have sex or kiss, that she knew were important to me. So she was considering divorce.

In the audio she did go into how she would move out and find an apartment in a cheaper part of town etc.

I said "I think you're afraid. I think going from a 3 bedroom apartment in a good neighborhood to a small studio apartment in a ****ty neighborhood scares you. I think being alone scares you. I think not knowing how your finances will turn out scares you."

She said she wasn't scared of that. She said she knew that if her life went to **** that it was all on her. I agreed. I wasn't taking any blame. So I asked "Why keep me around, if not for the money?"

Her life is full of drama, some of it serious. Both parents ill by the time she finished high school and taking care of them until just last year. That's 25 years of caring for parents. In her life, many people have come and gone, none really sticking around, helping out etc. Except of course, me. She said that when she dies, as morbid as it sounds, knowing that I would be there to send her off makes her feel happy, in a sad kind of way. Why ruin that with an affair?"

She knows now that there's nothing that can undo the affair. Whenever something feels off or doesn't go right, my mind goes back to that. 

OK. That was a lot for one post. Sorry.

She hasn't signed the papers. She cried, she slept, she talked, she cried and she slept. Eventually, I slept too.

I'm OK with her not signing but I'm leaving my stuff packed and sleeping in the other room. I still have to find a place and I still have to sort out my own finances. She says she's found a counselor and has been talking with her. Whether that's a licensed therapist or just an internet 'guru' I don't know. I'll ask later tonight.

I appreciate all the support at TAM


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

@Too_Bad, I am, admittedly, not partial when it comes to infidelity.

I do not believe her explanations.


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Too_Bad said:


> Can anyone tell me if the above bold is an issue, if you were in a marriage that you wanted to hold onto? This is just another nail in the coffin for her but I doubt she sees it as 'bad behavior'. Or maybe I'm being too sensitive?
> 
> She wants to have 'brunch' outside somewhere to talk things over. She says at home we will get overly aggressive. She was the one who went over the top. I stayed cool the whole time. Not sure what having a 'nice brunch' will do. I told her I would think about it. But the answer is no. Sunday comes it will be home and signing.


No, Not at all is that ok, IMO...


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> @Too_Bad, I am, admittedly, not partial when it comes to infidelity.
> 
> 
> 
> I do not believe her explanations.



I agree. I don't understand why she would have her female coworkers name as a mans name unless it's under a nickname or something like "my bestie". Doesn't that get confusing trying to remember what name you've given something? John is Jane or wait, maybe it's Walt. Stupid. 

All her explanations are totally lame. 

I'm wondering if you've had this anxiety since you've married her. Maybe she has always gas lighted you. Gas lighting can make you feel crazy.


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## Somanylemons (May 2, 2015)

Too_Bad said:


> I go home at lunch, it's a short work day. I want to leave now. I want to cry. A grown man crying at work.


There is nothing wrong with that. 

What you are going through is awful and a complete betrayal. Give yourself permission to cry.


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## Too_Bad (Aug 23, 2014)

The messaging app used here doesn't allow us to pick what we see them as. My name is TooBad here, it's kinda the same thing. Many use real names or nicknames. 

She still won't show me the conversation.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

If she wanted to save the relationship she would be honest with you. Her admitted PA obviously broke trust, and she has not made any effort to regain your trust. If she was at all interested in repairing your relationship she would agree to complete transparency of all communications. Any argument about protecting the privacy of a female friend could easily be resolved. She is CHOOSING not to do this. You can then choose to accept that she will keep secrets, or not. You do not have to accept this.


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