# Ladies, What is a "good lover" ?



## UMP

A question for the ladies, 

In your circle of conversation when you say "he's terrible in bed" or "he's great in bed", what exactly do you mean by this? 

Physically speaking, what makes for a great lover? (let's assume he has the emotional aspect down.)

What makes for a bad lover?


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## Saibasu

Confidence!!! Seriously if your switching around positions every 6 seconds before I even know what one we are in and there is nooooo rythm whatsoever, then you are terrible in bed.


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## Personal

UMP said:


> Physically speaking, what makes for a great lover?


Me! :wink2:


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## ConanHub

UMP said:


> A question for the ladies,
> 
> In your circle of conversation when you say "he's terrible in bed" or "he's great in bed", what exactly do you mean by this?
> 
> Physically speaking, what makes for a great lover? (let's assume he has the emotional aspect down.)
> 
> What makes for a bad lover?


This is actually a great question and I hope it gets lots of attention from women.

I would really value their insight here.


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## WorkingWife

UMP said:


> A question for the ladies,
> 
> In your circle of conversation when you say "he's terrible in bed" or "he's great in bed", what exactly do you mean by this?
> 
> Physically speaking, what makes for a great lover? (let's assume he has the emotional aspect down.)
> 
> What makes for a bad lover?


#1 thing? Talk dirty to me! I think of all the things I've ever experienced, what turned me on the most was having some guy I was nuts about pin me down on the bed and describe what he was going to do to me in my ear before and during doing it. OMG.

For erogenous zones - kiss the back of my neck!

But in general, it is the emotional aspect that makes a guy a good lover. Feeling connected is a big part of what makes sex good. Reckless abandon - a guy who is really turned on by me and totally into it. Fore play like kissing and touching and oral sex, but foreplay that is done like he's loving it, not done mechanically like he's ticking some items off a list. If I get the impression foreplay is a chore, I feel very self conscious and just want to get things over with so I don't bore you with my tedious female needs. And being a selfish lover - never kissing me and routinely just skipping foreplay, that's definitely a turn off. 

Passionate, uninhibited, confident - masculine. 
Good in bed to me is more psychological - how turned on he is to be with me - than the mechanics of just what was done, how long it lasted, which position, etc.


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## FeministInPink

I think @WorkingWife is pretty spot on.

A man also has to be attentive to my reactions to what he's doing--tuned into me would be the best way to put it, I guess. Prioritizing my pleasure. If he's doing that, then I will be even more inclined to do the same.


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## Faithful Wife

"Good" requires chemistry.

A guy can have good skills, be sexually attractive to me....but if there's no chemistry, it will feel flat.

So that part is a wild card.

If there *is* good chemistry....

And good *mutual* sexual/physical attraction...

Then a good lover is deeply passionate, incredibly intimate, and wonderfully sexually expressive with me. He wants pleasure, and he wants it through sexual intimacy with ME. He also wants MY pleasure because it turns him on. He talks with me about my desires and kinks and is open about his own. He is strong and able to pull and push my body around in bed, into different positions or postures. He has his hands on me all the time and my body melts under his touch. He is lusty and extremely sexual. His lust for me is an aphrodisiac. My lust for him grows more and more the more sex we have.

If you add to this the true commitment and love of a monogamous partner or spouse...the whole package deal becomes something even more. It becomes heaven on earth.

Without the chemistry and strong mutual sexual/physical attraction...it is dead in the water. So skills building and trying to learn how to be a better lover is pretty much pointless in that case. Instead, the focus should be on building chemistry.

A bad lover....

Generally speaking and aside from the chemistry issue:

*bad hygiene

*fumbling hands that do not seem to know what they are up to

*poor skills in fingering, breast touching, kissing, or PIV, or all of the above (as determined by each individual woman and how she wants to be touched...we are not robots)

*no consideration of their partner's pleasure, just "what's in it for me" or even partially in that direction...bleah

*no sexual imagination, same thing, same positions, etc.

*not paying particular attention to his partner to find out what makes her feel sexy...not just put upon her how he wants her to feel or expect her to "just know" his feelings about her because he has a boner...lack of ability to properly communicate

*has weird sexual expectations that come from porn or other sources outside of the couple's sex life

*has weird hangups that prevent him from fully enjoying sex 

*has no sexual self-awareness.

All of these things would make a woman a bad lover, too.


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## UMP

WorkingWife said:


> #1 thing? Talk dirty to me! I think of all the things I've ever experienced, what turned me on the most was having some guy I was nuts about pin me down on the bed and describe what he was going to do to me in my ear before and during doing it. OMG.
> 
> For erogenous zones - kiss the back of my neck!
> 
> But in general, it is the emotional aspect that makes a guy a good lover. Feeling connected is a big part of what makes sex good. Reckless abandon - a guy who is really turned on by me and totally into it. Fore play like kissing and touching and oral sex, but foreplay that is done like he's loving it, not done mechanically like he's ticking some items off a list. If I get the impression foreplay is a chore, I feel very self conscious and just want to get things over with so I don't bore you with my tedious female needs. And being a selfish lover - never kissing me and routinely just skipping foreplay, that's definitely a turn off.
> 
> Passionate, uninhibited, confident - masculine.
> Good in bed to me is more psychological - how turned on he is to be with me - than the mechanics of just what was done, how long it lasted, which position, etc.


Damn! 

Give me a freekin cigarette!


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## HurtWithHope

For me, attractiveness, as in having a "nice body" had very very little to do with it. My ex husband was very attractive both in looks and his body, very fit. But sex was meh. We pretty much had 2 positions we did, missionary and occasionally doggy. Oral rarely happened on either side. Never used toys. He seemed to like it fairly vanilla.

Now my most recent relationship that ended, he was adorable and very handsome, but a little overweight and not in shape. But our sex life? WOW. Despite all our problems, I will definitely miss the sex. It was amazing!! I had always been interested in being adventurous, but couldn't be in my marriage. But my exboyfriend? He pushed my limits and always wanted to try something new... And I loved it. Oral was a regular thing on both sides, many different positions, tried anal for the first time with him and it became a regular thing, always looking for new toys to add. Also the most important thing to me was him being the dominant and confident one. Taking me, bending me over. A little hair pulling and light choking. Always told me I looked smoking hot when I wore lingerie, which made me want to buy more fun outfits to surprise him. Sex was fun, not a chore!

But it may be different for other people. For me I was lacking a varied sex life before him and craved it, and was willing and open to try many things. And he was someone who wanted those things too, so it worked for us! Now I feel I'm screwed for life because I'll always compare future sex to him... He was definitely the best sex I've had (hopefully so far)! Ugh.


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## ChipperE

A great lover knows how to touch a woman and isn't shy about it. He reads her expression and body language to learn what she enjoys. He is PRESENT, meaning he is in tune with her and he's engaged. A good lover will save his pleasure for last and continue to push his partner to the edge as many times as he can and by doing this he will be rewarded. A truly amazing lover opens his partner like a flower to where she is emotionally and mentally so open to ask for anything and knows he will do it for her. The best lover makes the woman feel safe to let go and trust him.

A poor lover zones out and gets off. He just wants an orifice. Nothing else matters.


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## lifeistooshort

I agree with FW that chemistry is important. 

Beyond that I think confidence and paying attention to what your woman likes and how she responds to different things is very important.

The worst lovers are the ones who don't pay attention to their woman's reactions and just go for theirs. 

And the ones who bring a lot of porn in.....but that's one of my peeves. 

Also I hate feeling pressured to have certain reactions for fear of hurting a guy's feelings. If I can be free to feel what I feel I can enjoy myself a lot more.

And keep yourself in shape and keep decent hygiene. Those two can negate everything else.


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## 269370

It looks like there is a common theme developing...




WorkingWife said:


> #1 thing? Talk dirty to me!
> 
> Passionate, uninhibited, confident - masculine.





Saibasu said:


> Confidence!!!





Faithful Wife said:


> He is strong and able to pull and push my body around in bed, into different positions or postures. He has his hands on me all the time and my body melts under his touch. He is lusty and extremely sexual.





HurtWithHope said:


> Also the most important thing to me was him being the dominant and confident one. Taking me, bending me over. A little hair pulling and light choking.





ChipperE said:


> A great lover knows how to touch a woman and isn't shy about it.





lifeistooshort said:


> Beyond that I think confidence and paying attention to what your woman likes and how she responds to different things is very important.


I have yet to meet a woman who would prefer a purely "sensitive, sensual and submissive" male partner in bed, instead of a dominating, alpha male type (dominating in the "right" kind of way).

What does "bring porn to bed" mean? I am genuinely curious. I don't know what kind of porn you mean but the "mindless pounding" type of porn is generally considered *bad*/cheap porn that not many find appealing.
In fact, good/stimulating porn conforms pretty accurately to the descriptions mentioned here in my opinion.
It actually took some scenes from porn for me to discover what my wife actually likes (assertive, dominating etc) as well as various kinks/techniques. She never watched porn so I always find it amusing that many women find porn so repulsive/destructive to one's sex life yet enjoy so many elements portrayed in it.
Yes, it's acting of course (sometimes very bad acting) but like any movie, where emotion is conveyed, it doesn't mean it's automatically invalid, in its own right.


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## Spicy

Great question. This is a hard one for me, as I am HD, and DH is LD.
Although his parter count is way higher then mine, he ultimately is super inexperienced, and his knowledge is based on porn and women who didn't like sex. We are working hard on these challenges, but these would be my answers from where I sit at the moment in my life.

Him being willing to learn my body, and what works and what doesn't. 
Researching things to try/improve his skills. 
Being aggressive in wanting me. 
Wiling to try new things. 
Passion and desire.
Patience to not pressure me to "cum for me baby". That only works when I'm about to explode.
Confidence. 

I love my DH so much, and I hope we can really continue to work on our sexual relationship so it can grow and expand.


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## Diana7

A man who loves me and who I love. Who is committed to me. Who doesn't watch porn or compare me to other women. Who is unselfish, who will always think of what I like as well as what he likes. Who wants us to learn together, who listens to me as I listen to him, and who is not shy to talk about sex and what we each like. Who is relaxed and enjoys what we do. Who gives me a hug/cuddle afterwards. Who doesn't ask for sex when he knows I am feeling unwell or especially worn out. Who treats me with respect.
So he will be my best friend and husband and companion, and my lover all the time, not just when we are in bed.


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## Saibasu

Yes definitely a theme occuring here. Confidence as I mentioned earlier is KEY for me. I'll elaborate for guys seeking clarification, I want my man to be a confidant lover. Nothing drives me to that next level sex like a man who knows what he is really doing and losing himself in me. I'm talking full on abandonment of his inhibitions. Get LOST in me and I guarantee it will be the best damn night of his life. I feed off bringing pleasure to my husband. Just watching him come apart at the seems and unravel because of me going down on him is damn near enough to finish me off. I may enjoy it more than he does! I like my man to be dominant, cuddly feeling and snuggles are great and all, but check that at the bedroom door and bring your masculinity with you  if you know what I'm saying haha!


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## lucy999

I'll echo the others who say confidence is key. Nothing worse than a mealy mouthed lover.

Also the genuine desire that he just cannot wait one more minute to get it on. 

Very dominant, very masculine, knows what he wants, and takes it as his (all consensual of course).

More specific: he's bossy, talks dirty, spanks, and pulls hair. 

I think i might be the odd woman out in this regard : I don't necessarily need to emotionally connect with my lover through sex.


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## MrsHolland

lucy999 said:


> I'll echo the others who say confidence is key. Nothing worse than a mealy mouthed lover.
> 
> Also the genuine desire that he just cannot wait one more minute to get it on.
> 
> Very dominant, very masculine, knows what he wants, and takes it as his (all consensual of course).
> 
> More specific: he's bossy, talks dirty, spanks, and pulls hair.
> 
> I think i might be the odd woman out in this regard : *I don't necessarily need to emotionally connect with my lover through sex.*


Neither do I however sex with a man that I am emotional connected to out of bed makes for an ever increasingly amazing sex life. 

The OP asked what makes a good "lover" so I am thinking this is more about long term relationships and sex. Plenty of non committed sex in my life and while most of it has been pretty good, nothing beats the amazing sex with my committed, respectful, long term lover. Sure we can just have it off every once in a while but we are lovers in the true sense of the word.

He is just amazing in bed, for most of not all the reasons mentioned by the other Lovely ladies.

Have to ask though OP, it does not matter what anyone but your wife thinks is a good lover, is this the real question or are you wanting to work out if you are one?


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## *Deidre*

For me, there needs to be trust built. I've never had a ONS, and never have wanted to...I've gone on dates with men who wanted to have sex that first night, and there's no way those guys would have ever known how to really get me interested in sex, because they didn't know me well enough. Personally, a good lover KNOWS me...knows what I'm about, and how my mind works. It takes more than physical touch or ''skills'' to make me hot, a guy has to really know me, and know the things that turn me on, which for me sometimes, involve mental games, teasing, edging, etc. Those types of things someone wouldn't know without having a relationship with me. So, to me, a good lover is someone who doesn't rush things, but wants to get to know the woman he's with. 

An amazing lover teases (not mercilessly, but maybe sometimes lol), and doesn't rush the night. My fiance is an amazing lover, I lay there, shaking after we have sex...unable to speak, sometimes. 

So good!


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## WorkingWife

inmyprime said:


> It actually took some scenes from porn for me to discover what my wife actually likes (assertive, dominating etc) as well as various kinks/techniques. She never watched porn so I always find it amusing that many women find porn so repulsive/destructive to one's sex life yet enjoy so many elements portrayed in it.
> Yes, it's acting of course (sometimes very bad acting) but like any movie, where emotion is conveyed, it doesn't mean it's automatically invalid, in its own right.


Too be fair, I think many women find porn destructive to one's sex life because 1) men get addicted to it and start to prefer masturbating to porn over making love to their wife. 2) The contrast effect - No matter how attractive the wife, there will always be porn start with better bodies. Lusting after these women tends to make the man less satisfied with his naturally aging wife with a normal body.

For myself - I've seen porn a few times, but it mostly made me feel sad. I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that those "actresses" used to be someone's little girl. They still are a daughter, sister, mother... I wondered what happened to them.


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## 269370

WorkingWife said:


> Too be fair, I think many women find porn destructive to one's sex life because 1) men get addicted to it and start to prefer masturbating to porn over making love to their wife.


Ok, I understand how and why women might find porn "threatening" to their relationship however, in a healthy relationship where both partners find each other sexually attractive under normal circumstances, *this is absolutely not the case*. I have been trying to get this point across so many times...if the man prefers porn over wife it is either due to: 1). his easily addictive behaviour (the addiction could manifest itself via other outlets just as much, i.e. alcohol, gaming, gambling etc or 2). porn often receives a blanket blame for any problem in the relationship when it is usually simply a symptom of a deeper problem within a relationship.



WorkingWife said:


> 2) The contrast effect - No matter how attractive the wife, there will always be porn start with better bodies. Lusting after these women tends to make the man less satisfied with his naturally aging wife with a normal body.


Ok, I can understand how this might seem obvious, but when men watch porn, the majority of the time they are not "lusting" after anyone's body, it's simply the act that is arousing and the visual stimulation only aids a quicker orgasm. The reason women find it difficult to relate to this is in my opinion because they have a much more vivid imagination and when they read erotic novels for example, it is probably likely that they actually imagine themselves in the act much more often whereas men don't tend to do that... 
The man falls in love with his wife (and her body) and the real thing is so much better than any "perfect" bodies portrayed in some stupid movie. There is simply no comparison to real life sex where you get immediate feedback form the act, where you can feel, smell and taste things. it's just not the same at all.

"For myself - I've seen porn a few times, but it mostly made me feel sad. I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that those "actresses" used to be someone's little girl. They still are a daughter, sister, mother... I wondered what happened to them."

Yes, but these women didn't make the choice when they were a "little girl", they made a specific choice as an adult person (and usually for materialistic reasons), just like any job decision. I feel sad for many 9-5 jobs I see people wasting their lives doing but people are free to choose what they want to do with their time. Usually.

Anyway, this is a digression and doesn't really address the question of what complaining about "bringing porn to bed" means. The majority of the descriptions of a "good lover" describe a potentially very arousing scene from a good quality porn flick, in my opinion. I think it is somewhat unfair to issue a blanket condemnation of all porn when many women actually crave that very act themselves...


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## 269370

lucy999 said:


> I'll echo the others who say confidence is key. Nothing worse than a mealy mouthed lover.
> 
> Also the genuine desire that he just cannot wait one more minute to get it on.
> 
> Very dominant, very masculine, knows what he wants, and takes it as his (all consensual of course).
> 
> More specific: he's bossy, talks dirty, spanks, and pulls hair.
> 
> I think i might be the odd woman out in this regard : *I don't necessarily need to emotionally connect with my lover through sex*.


I would really like to understand a little better what "emotional connection" during sex means to people. @Faithful Wife once described it really well what it meant for her, I want to understand what is the difference between sex with and without emotional connection means, from different perspectives.

Is it something real or imagined? (I mean if both people are happy & satisfied afterwards, does it mean they are "connected"?) Is it something that only applies to women? (because they are usually in the submission of their male partner). Or does it simply mean aware of "being in the moment"?


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## SimplyAmorous

A good lover is one where I feel emotionally & physically connected....feeling his need as well as his feeling mine... he knows me & what my body is craving....his kisses devour me while feeling lost in each other, not wanting this euphoria to end....and he can hold out till I get mine !! .... then we collapse in each others arms and share "the afterglow"...



inmyprime said:


> I would really like to understand a little better what "emotional connection" during sex means to people. @Faithful Wife once described it really well what it meant for her, I want to understand what is the difference between sex with and without emotional connection means, from different perspectives.
> 
> Is it something real or imagined? (I mean if both people are happy & satisfied afterwards, does it mean they are "connected"?) Is it something that only applies to women? (because they are usually in the submission of their male partner). Or does it simply mean aware of "being in the moment"?


I can't say I have ever had sex without an emotional connection... my husband calls it "Making love" - he refers to a "bonding".. .he is a very sensual man.... I've always felt deeply cared for - how does one explain this.. this will sound terribly mushy.. but we've teared up looking into each others eyes during the act...this connection was felt so strongly.. once his tears dripped down into my face.. it's something that bonds you, a moment you would never forget as long as you live...it's surely in the moment, both feeling it, sensing, feeding off the other...

There is always love or some erotic fun talk afterwards also in the afterglow.. my heart is fully open, so is his.. with the heightened "feel good" hormones released..


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## introvert

I'm a lesbian, but I would like to put in my two bit's worth...

I will echo the others concerning confidence and chemistry. It's also important that the couple have equal sex drives. 

Never take your partner for granted, and work to come up with new and exciting things to do in bed. 

Concerning porn...both my gf and I watch porn alone or together, often to demonstrate to the other what we find hot and would like to try. We are only together on weekends, so we are each fine with the other masturbating with or without porn during the week days. My understanding of men is that they are more visual, and porn usually isn't a big deal. I don't feel jealous about my gf watching other women or men in porn. We both know that whatever ideas we introduce to each other via porn or erotica or whatever is only going to strengthen our bond sexually. We are both very high drive people.

I agree that it's an issue if a man or woman becomes addicted to porn and neglects their partner.


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## WorkingWife

inmyprime said:


> Ok, I understand how and why women might find porn "threatening" to their relationship however, in a healthy relationship where both partners find each other sexually attractive under normal circumstances, *this is absolutely not the case*. I have been trying to get this point across so many times...if the man prefers porn over wife it is either due to: 1). his easily addictive behaviour (the addiction could manifest itself via other outlets just as much, i.e. alcohol, gaming, gambling etc or 2). porn often receives a blanket blame for any problem in the relationship when it is usually simply a symptom of a deeper problem within a relationship.


Not sure I agree but I would say that to me as a woman, there would be a big difference between watching porn as a couple and being married to someone who watched porn without me.




inmyprime said:


> Ok, I can understand how this might seem obvious, but when men watch porn, the majority of the time they are not "lusting" after anyone's body, it's simply the act that is arousing and the visual stimulation only aids a quicker orgasm. The reason women find it difficult to relate to this is in my opinion because they have a much more vivid imagination and when they read erotic novels for example, it is probably likely that they actually imagine themselves in the act much more often whereas men don't tend to do that...
> The man falls in love with his wife (and her body) and the real thing is so much better than any "perfect" bodies portrayed in some stupid movie. There is simply no comparison to real life sex where you get immediate feedback form the act, where you can feel, smell and taste things. it's just not the same at all.


That may be your experience, and even that of many mens. But forums like this one have plenty of stories from women whose husband's have lost all interest in sex with them and who happen to have porn all over their phones. Also, I do realize I've done a really crappy job of choosing men in my lifetime, so maybe my anecdotal experience is outside the norm, but every guy I've been with seemed to be in search of the perfect body - bigger breasts, longer legs, etc. Also, I was in the military and as such hung out with and worked with mostly men where I was kind of "one of the guys" and they were always watching porn and saying nit picky things about women's bodies and their interest in women on base always had to do with how good their bodies were, how good looking they were. An extra pound of fat, a lack of muscle tone, a spot of cellulite - like I say, maybe it was just the men I was around but I've been around men most of my life and their wanting to be with the best looking woman was definitely my take away.




inmyprime said:


> _"For myself - I've seen porn a few times, but it mostly made me feel sad. I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that those "actresses" used to be someone's little girl. They still are a daughter, sister, mother... I wondered what happened to them."
> _
> 
> Yes, but these women didn't make the choice when they were a "little girl", they made a specific choice as an adult person (and usually for materialistic reasons), just like any job decision. I feel sad for many 9-5 jobs I see people wasting their lives doing but people are free to choose what they want to do with their time. Usually.


I'm just explaining why bringing porn to bed would not be a turn on to me. Yes people are free to choose, but I don't believe an emotionally healthy woman would every choose to be a porn star. The idea of letting random people screw you on film for money is so degrading and demeaning to me, it overshadows any erotocism I might get from the film.



inmyprime said:


> Anyway, this is a digression and doesn't really address the question of what complaining about "bringing porn to bed" means. The majority of the descriptions of a "good lover" describe a potentially very arousing scene from a good quality porn flick, in my opinion. I think it is somewhat unfair to issue a blanket condemnation of all porn when many women actually crave that very act themselves...


Well I've lost track of the original complaint about bringing porn to bed. I would just say that women craving what is acted out in a porn scene happening to them in their real life is completely different than a woman approving of porn! If you're saying her guy could learn some good tips from watching some good porn, I'll buy that. But if you're saying women shouldn't condemn porn since it depicts what they claim turns them on, I'm not seeing the logic.

BTW - I was thinking, men COULD get some really good tips on pleasing a woman by reading some steamy romance novels - they are written with what women want in mind.


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## alexm

inmyprime said:


> I have yet to meet a woman who would prefer a purely "sensitive, sensual and submissive" male partner in bed, instead of a dominating, alpha male type (dominating in the "right" kind of way).


This is something I learned in my early adult years, and I was almost flabbergasted! Funny, isn't it? I think we men are almost taught to be exactly that, but it's almost certainly not what women actually want (well, maybe some do).

That said, I think a lot of us men get some mixed signals from women, particularly at the beginning of relationships. It's almost as though they don't want us to know what they actually prefer right at the start, lest it paint them in a so-called negative light. My own wife, when we started dating, was quite complimentary of the fact that I paid attention to her, and remarked on more than one occasion that this was new for her - slowing it down and taking my time, etc.

So either the novelty wore off, or her true sexual needs rose to the top. Either or!


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## lucy999

inmyprime said:


> I would really like to understand a little better what "emotional connection" during sex means to people. @Faithful Wife once described it really well what it meant for her, I want to understand what is the difference between sex with and without emotional connection means, from different perspectives.
> 
> Is it something real or imagined? (I mean if both people are happy & satisfied afterwards, does it mean they are "connected"?) Is it something that only applies to women? (because they are usually in the submission of their male partner). Or does it simply mean aware of "being in the moment"?


Maybe the difference between making love and just having sex? Making love isnt my cuppa tea. I emotionally bond with my partner through other means. Usually his sense of of humor (that is a HUGE turn on for me), or acts of service (my love language).


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## Keke24

inmyprime said:


> I would really like to understand a little better what "emotional connection" during sex means to people. @Faithful Wife once described it really well what it meant for her, I want to understand what is the difference between sex with and without emotional connection means, from different perspectives.
> 
> Is it something real or imagined? (I mean if both people are happy & satisfied afterwards, does it mean they are "connected"?) Is it something that only applies to women? (because they are usually in the submission of their male partner). Or does it simply mean aware of "being in the moment"?



I've had sex with and without the emotional connection. For a long time I heard my guy friends reference this emotional connection as the reason why they weren't interested in ONS but never really felt it until more recently. 

I started feeling the emotional connection with my partner when he began forcing me to look into his eyes when we had sex, preventing me from hiding away when I was about to cum and adding more sensual touches during sex eg whispering in my ear, kissing my neck, the back of my knees, inner thighs etc. Together, I shied away from these (particularly eye contact) during sex because they made me feel very vulnerable and I was not comfortable being open to exploring that in the past. 

We have the nastiest sex ever, very seldom do we 'make love' but there's still the underlying emotional connection. I could be on my leash getting a spanking, or getting mounted and spat on in front of the mirror and the connection is there, so strong it brings me to tears some times. I use my body to show him how I want to be used, how eager I am to be taken by him and I trust him to not take advantage of my vulnerability in those moments. It's an unspoken agreement, a bond that's not always palpable but ever present. So the connection is a combination of familiarity, openness, vulnerability and unabashed pleasure.


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## 269370

WorkingWife said:


> BTW - I was thinking, men COULD get some really good tips on pleasing a woman by reading some steamy romance novels - they are written with what women want in mind.


You don't think that this implies a double-standard? (That somehow erotic novels are more useful than porn when it comes to pleasing women). Actually I would say it's the opposite: the novels usually describe mostly how the woman _feels_ while the guy is doing stuff to her whereas porn is showing what's actually happening, so it's more instructive and 'objective' IMO. (How do you make a woman feel what she is supposed to be feeling?? It's mostly a chemistry thing as has been established.)



WorkingWife said:


> I would just say that women craving what is acted out in a porn scene happening to them in their real life is completely different than a woman approving of porn! If you're saying her guy could learn some good tips from watching some good porn, I'll buy that. But if you're saying women shouldn't condemn porn since it depicts what they claim turns them on, I'm not seeing the logic.


So you agree that what's acted out in porn is very similar to what women actually like during sex in real life? That's all I was saying. I wasn't arguing about the merits of porn as a business. The only difference is that porn is 'acting' and done for material gain, like any job, and real life is done for...I dunno, 'love' I guess. Can you not see how this can come across as hypocritical when at the same time women keep saying how disgusting and completely detached from reality porn is?




WorkingWife said:


> Also, I was in the military and as such hung out with and worked with mostly men where I was kind of "one of the guys" and they were always watching porn and saying nit picky things about women's bodies and their interest in women on base always had to do with how good their bodies were, how good looking they were. An extra pound of fat, a lack of muscle tone, a spot of cellulite - like I say, maybe it was just the men I was around but I've been around men most of my life and their wanting to be with the best looking woman was definitely my take away.


Yes, our views i am sure are coloured by personal experience. I can only say that once you love someone, you love the whole package: every extra pound of fat, every muscle tone, cellulite, whatever comes with that person. Perhaps men do talk superficially about women that they don't know or don't especially care about (who they are not in a relationship with) - just like some women discuss size of penises among each other - but when you love someone, you don't usually think about minor imperfections and are attracted to the person and everything that comes with it.


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## 269370

lucy999 said:


> Maybe the difference between making love and just having sex? Making love isnt my cuppa tea. I emotionally bond with my partner through other means. Usually his sense of of humor (that is a HUGE turn on for me), or acts of service (my love language).


You mean you prefer to focus on yourself rather than anything/anyone else? I am not sure I still understand what the difference between 'making love' and 'having sex' is. Isn't it just a state of mind? 
Let me try a different way: have you _tried_ 'making love' instead of having sex? What did you do differently?


----------



## Keke24

inmyprime said:


> Ok, I understand how and why women might find porn "threatening" to their relationship however, in a healthy relationship where both partners find each other sexually attractive under normal circumstances, *this is absolutely not the case*. I have been trying to get this point across so many times...if the man prefers porn over wife it is either due to: 1). his easily addictive behaviour (the addiction could manifest itself via other outlets just as much, i.e. alcohol, gaming, gambling etc or 2). porn often receives a blanket blame for any problem in the relationship when it is usually simply a symptom of a deeper problem within a relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, I can understand how this might seem obvious, but when men watch porn, the majority of the time they are not "lusting" after anyone's body, it's simply the act that is arousing and the visual stimulation only aids a quicker orgasm. The reason women find it difficult to relate to this is in my opinion because they have a much more vivid imagination and when they read erotic novels for example, it is probably likely that they actually imagine themselves in the act much more often whereas men don't tend to do that...
> The man falls in love with his wife (and her body) and the real thing is so much better than any "perfect" bodies portrayed in some stupid movie. There is simply no comparison to real life sex where you get immediate feedback form the act, where you can feel, smell and taste things. it's just not the same at all.
> 
> "For myself - I've seen porn a few times, but it mostly made me feel sad. I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that those "actresses" used to be someone's little girl. They still are a daughter, sister, mother... I wondered what happened to them."
> 
> Yes, but these women didn't make the choice when they were a "little girl", they made a specific choice as an adult person (and usually for materialistic reasons), just like any job decision. I feel sad for many 9-5 jobs I see people wasting their lives doing but people are free to choose what they want to do with their time. Usually.
> 
> Anyway, this is a digression and doesn't really address the question of what complaining about "bringing porn to bed" means. The majority of the descriptions of a "good lover" describe a potentially very arousing scene from a good quality porn flick, in my opinion. I think it is somewhat unfair to issue a blanket condemnation of all porn when many women actually crave that very act themselves...



I agree with much of what @inmyprime presents here. Honestly sex between my partner and I does not differ much from porn. I've always had a preference for super nasty sex and it's very fulfilling having a partner who's willing to go to the same extremes.

I'm very much interested in women's bodies and maybe it's my partner's effort to be respectful but I find myself commenting on the beauty of the female body more often than him. For that reason, porn is a normal aspect of our sex life. I watch it without him and he does the same in his own spare time. So I'm wanting for a super erotic experience, I know it's nothing a visit to the strip club or a good porn flick can't fix. It's almost like he gets more lusty when his brain is bombarded by images of naked women's bodies. Hmm or perhaps I'm the one who's really getting more turned on...


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## 269370

Keke24 said:


> I've had sex with and without the emotional connection. For a long time I heard my guy friends reference this emotional connection as the reason why they weren't interested in ONS but never really felt it until more recently.
> 
> I started feeling the emotional connection with my partner when he began forcing me to look into his eyes when we had sex, preventing me from hiding away when I was about to cum and adding more sensual touches during sex eg whispering in my ear, kissing my neck, the back of my knees, inner thighs etc. Together, I shied away from these (particularly eye contact) during sex because they made me feel very vulnerable and I was not comfortable being open to exploring that in the past.
> 
> We have the nastiest sex ever, very seldom do we 'make love' but there's still the underlying emotional connection. I could be on my leash getting a spanking, or getting mounted and spat on in front of the mirror and the connection is there, so strong it brings me to tears some times. I use my body to show him how I want to be used, how eager I am to be taken by him and I trust him to not take advantage of my vulnerability in those moments. It's an unspoken agreement, a bond that's not always palpable but ever present. So the connection is a combination of familiarity, openness, vulnerability and unabashed pleasure.


I have to try the looking in the eye thing. I have a feeling it would freak my wife out...I can't often look people in the eyes when I speak to them, during sex, this might be even stranger...What happens if one person bursts out laughing? 

Thanks for the honest opinion.

PS: what's ONS? Couldn't find it in the acronym thread.


----------



## Keke24

inmyprime said:


> I have to try the looking in the eye thing. I have a feeling it would freak my wife out...I can't often look people in the eyes when I speak to them, during sex, this might be even stranger...What happens if one person bursts out laughing?
> 
> Thanks for the honest opinion.
> 
> PS: what's ONS? Couldn't find it in the acronym thread.



One night stand (ONS).

Lol, that's a funny image. I love moments of laughter during sex, it lightens the mood. So even that response may not be a bad thing. I think depending on what she sees on your face, it may freak her out. When I look at my partner's face I see him trying to communicate his awe of my body and his love for me in the moment. I see a deeper part of his personality in those moments and that's what makes it special. 

If a guy does the looking in the eyes thing in an weird way where it's clear he's not even 100% comfortable with it himself, I can see that being very awkward lolol.


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## Keke24

That being said, I recall having a very satisfying one night stand. The connection was there however. We ended up in a deep, open conversation about life and sex that morphed into us drawing closer and closer to one another as the night progressed and opposed to drunken wildness, I got an amazing hot oil massage and pretty good sex.


----------



## Faithful Wife

inmyprime said:


> *So you agree that what's acted out in porn is very similar to what women actually like during sex in real life?* That's all I was saying. I wasn't arguing about the merits of porn as a business. The only difference is that porn is 'acting' and done for material gain, like any job, and real life is done for...I dunno, 'love' I guess. Can you not see how this can come across as hypocritical when at the same time women keep saying how disgusting and completely detached from reality porn is?
> 
> ...
> 
> Yes, our views i am sure are coloured by personal experience. *I can only say that once you love someone, you love the whole package: every extra pound of fat, every muscle tone, cellulite, whatever comes with that person.* Perhaps men do talk superficially about women that they don't know or don't especially care about (who they are not in a relationship with) - just like some women discuss size of penises among each other - *but when you love someone, you don't usually think about minor imperfections and are attracted to the person and everything that comes with it*.


As to the first bolded....I don't really think you are ever going to "get" this topic. You clearly don't really want to see anything except your own opinion about it. You keep trying and trying to discuss it, but you really are only trying to convince others of your point of view. You are not actually seeing their point of view.

I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.

You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.

When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.

As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.

I think most men think they can speak for the average man (probably true for women too)....but they are rarely correct. As an example, a man can say "we're, men, we like this and that"....and yet you dig a little deeper and find out this man who is speaking isn't a boob man. So then suddenly you're going "how can you speak for the average man when you don't even like boobs that much?" and he will look at you like a deer in headlights because he doesn't make the connection.

Edited to add: By the way, when I'm in a relationship, I specifically DON'T watch BBC porn, because I DON'T want to be making comparisons in my head between what is on the screen and what I'm actually experiencing with my partner. I don't want to make him feel that comparison, ever. Because, yes I really would compare....I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HELP IT if I indulged in porn whenever I wanted.


----------



## lucy999

inmyprime said:


> You mean you prefer to focus on yourself rather than anything/anyone else? I am not sure I still understand what the difference between 'making love' and 'having sex' is. Isn't it just a state of mind?
> Let me try a different way: have you _tried_ 'making love' instead of having sex? What did you do differently?


Oh gosh no i focus on my partner as well as myself. That said, however, my partner has to be an active participant in my preferences. Which is why my bf and i are having issues-he can and will do the naughty stuff, but it doesnt come natural to him. I respect that and we are slowly finding our way. 

Im not a mushy or romantic person. Im not turned on by lovemaking, which i deem to be gentle, slow, and very emo. I like to fvck and be fvcked.

I have tried making love instead of the kind of sex i prefer. I had to stifle giggles. Its just not who i am.


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## uhtred

There is a lot of variation. It wouldn't bother me at all if my wife liked BBD (or whatever the acronym is) porn. During one of our rare sexually active phases I got her a huge toy so that she could see what it was like (she enjoyed the novelty a few times, but eventually decided it was just uncomfortable)

I actually find erotic stories more annoying than any sort of porn of the above type. No one can expect me to change the size of my D&&&, but I do think erotic novels can create an unrealistic sense of how a person *should* behave romantically. (I don't object much but given the choice, I'd rather watch BBD porn with her than a romantic fantasy story). 






Faithful Wife said:


> snip
> I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.
> 
> You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.
> 
> When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.
> 
> As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.
> 
> snip
> .


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> There is a lot of variation. *It wouldn't bother me at all if my wife liked BBD* (or whatever the acronym is) porn. During one of our rare sexually active phases I got her a huge toy so that she could see what it was like (she enjoyed the novelty a few times, but eventually decided it was just uncomfortable)


Since you are not in the position of being with a woman who DOES watch BBC porn, without you, hides it from you, denies she's watching it when she is, is comparing your c*ck to what she sees and is fantasizing about it while having sex with you, then you don't know how you would feel if this actually were the case.

Playing with a huge toy is nothing even close to what I'm describing and has no relevance.


----------



## uhtred

That makes it rather difficult to discuss, since there are probably not many women who do tell their partners that they watch BBC porn. 

Interesting that you think the visual is more important than the physical sensation. 






Faithful Wife said:


> Since you are not in the position of being with a woman who DOES watch BBC porn, without you, hides it from you, denies she's watching it when she is, is comparing your c*ck to what she sees and is fantasizing about it while having sex with you, then you don't know how you would feel if this actually were the case.
> 
> Playing with a huge toy is nothing even close to what I'm describing and has no relevance.


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> That makes it rather difficult to discuss, since there are probably not many women who do tell their partners that they watch BBC porn.
> 
> Interesting that you think the visual is more important than the physical sensation.


Right. And until there are women telling men this (though it is happening more and more with the younger generation) then men will not understand what it feels like to have their woman like this type of porn and have her hide it from him, fantasize about those c*cks, etc.

Men typically aren't honest about what they are watching and what they get out of it either....because they KNOW it will hurt their woman's feelings. Even while they will still do whatever they can to keep watching it secretly, knowing it would hurt her. Then they say "why does porn hurt women's feelings that's so stupid". This is a lie many tell themselves. A lie that would slap them in their own face if the tables were turned on them.

I did not say the visual is more important than the physical sensation. I said you buying a huge toy to play with your wife and her not liking it is not in any way the same as a woman choosing to watch BBC porn and enjoying it for her own reasons.


----------



## uhtred

I was referring to something different about the toy - that if I wasn't bothered by her having a huge toy, I don't think I'd be bothered by her watching BBC porn. Of course I can't know without trying and she has no interest.

I don't know what other men watch in porn. I mostly watch when my wife turns me down (almost always). She would be unhappy if she knew I watched at all. I mostly watch kinky stuff that she isn't interested in. 






Faithful Wife said:


> Right. And until there are women telling men this (though it is happening more and more with the younger generation) then men will not understand what it feels like to have their woman like this type of porn and have her hide it from him, fantasize about those c*cks, etc.
> 
> Men typically aren't honest about what they are watching and what they get out of it either....because they KNOW it will hurt their woman's feelings. Even while they will still do whatever they can to keep watching it secretly, knowing it would hurt her. Then they say "why does porn hurt women's feelings that's so stupid". This is a lie many tell themselves. A lie that would slap them in their own face if the tables were turned on them.
> 
> I did not say the visual is more important than the physical sensation. I said you buying a huge toy to play with your wife and her not liking it is not in any way the same as a woman choosing to watch BBC porn and enjoying it for her own reasons.


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> I was referring to something different about the toy - that if I wasn't bothered by her having a huge toy, I don't think I'd be bothered by her watching BBC porn. Of course I can't know without trying and she has no interest.


But even with the toy, your opinion about "how you would feel" is shaped by the fact that you tried and she didn't like it.

What if she did like it, had huge orgasms from it, then took it underground and used it without you every chance she got, meanwhile denied you sex (even though she already does that part)? Your opinion would be different.


----------



## UMP

MrsHolland said:


> Have to ask though OP, it does not matter what anyone but your wife thinks is a good lover, is this the real question or are you wanting to work out if you are one?


It's all about education. In my opinion, regardless of whether I am currently good or bad in bed, I can assure you that I can always be better. Educating myself is key to that success. My wife is not very vocal about what she likes or does not like. In fact, I don't think she knows herself. It's up to me to learn, apply and evaluate (with her).

Nothing like TAM for a REAL sex education.


----------



## 269370

Faithful Wife said:


> As to the first bolded....*I don't really think you are ever going to "get" this topic. You clearly don't really want to see anything except your own opinion about it. You keep trying and trying to discuss it, but you really are only trying to convince others of your point of view.* You are not actually seeing their point of view.
> 
> I'll make it very blunt and easy for you....this is from my own real experience....if I'm honest and tell any man I'm with that if I really want to watch porn, its going to be BIG BLACK C*CK porn, and plenty of it, and they are free to watch with me if they want but if they utter even the tiniest bit of protest or seem to feel insecure about what I'm watching, then I'm going to berate them and ask them how dare they judge me and tell them they obviously have nothing to worry about as this is just something I enjoy for a quick orgasm release....oh of course I'm not lusting after those men's bodies and of course I'm not imagining f*cking those huge c*cks (this part would be lies)....I promise you, because I've had these conversations before.....NO men don't just say "oh yeah no problem, porn is no big deal" when they are faced with a woman who acts this way about it. Instead, they are constantly insecure, they are always wondering what you are watching, and they are always afraid that you are wishing you had that huge c*ck instead of his...and sometimes you ARE.
> 
> You guys who really think you should be able to watch porn guilt free can only think that because you have not been put into the position I just described. You run around and mock erotic novels and "pretend" that you have just as much to be jealous of if we read those (which I've never read one in my entire life)....but again, this is only because your woman hasn't done what I just described to you.
> 
> When she does....if she ever does....THEN you may understand what other women are saying about their feelings about porn. Until you are describing apples to apples (where you are dealing with a woman who is repeatedly watching porn of the ONE THING that you will NEVER be, and hiding it from you, masturbating to it, and denying a lot of it, and clearly she's enjoying it a lot more than you ever though a woman could possibly enjoy porn) then you really don't have an argument.
> 
> As to the bolded in the second paragraph.....please don't try to speak for others. You may feel this way, but that doesn't mean all men or even a majority of them do. Since you feel that way, you can't fathom why some of the women here are super hurt by their husband's porn use. But you are not those husbands. You can't say what they think what they feel, that they love their wives bodies, etc. It would be great if all men felt like you, but they do not.
> 
> I think most men think they can speak for the average man (probably true for women too)....but they are rarely correct. As an example, a man can say "we're, men, we like this and that"....and yet you dig a little deeper and find out this man who is speaking isn't a boob man. So then suddenly you're going "how can you speak for the average man when you don't even like boobs that much?" and he will look at you like a deer in headlights because he doesn't make the connection.
> 
> Edited to add: By the way, when I'm in a relationship, I specifically DON'T watch BBC porn, because I DON'T want to be making comparisons in my head between what is on the screen and what I'm actually experiencing with my partner. I don't want to make him feel that comparison, ever. Because, yes I really would compare....I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HELP IT if I indulged in porn whenever I wanted.


Gosh, my post must have hit a spot of sorts...

The porn topic is not really something '_I am trying to get_' - I actually feel that I 'get it' very well; I see where the double standards lie and I have a pretty clear and strong view on it which I will express, hopefully without inviting the kind of hostility expressed in the tone of your post. I also appreciate that it is a painful topic for some. I don't however believe that people who have a healthy attitude towards porn are in the minority, as your posts suggest. In fact it is much more likely that someone who decided to blame porn for all the evils in their relationship and decided to post about it on TAM, will be the exceptional cases rather than majority. Would you not agree?

If my wife decided that BBC porn turned her on, I would not be disturbed by it in the slightest. In fact I would probably find a way to build it into our foreplay (other than painting my own c*ck black...although who knows, this might do the trick. Why is there an embedded assumption that only black c*cks are large?).
I am comfortable enough about my size and more importantly, I know that she is more than comfortable with it. Actually I remember the only type of porn my wife would bear watching were lesbian shower scenes (she liked the clean, soapy look of it and the good looking female bodies). I remember being turned on by the fact that it turned her on. I never felt threatened or hurt by it. 

Having said that, if I knew that her feelings were hurt by me watching porn, I would immediately cut it out (I never watch anything anyway whenever we have a regular sex life). But it's more likely that after a conversation about it and establishing *why* she was hurt, we would not have this issue anymore. The disagreements, as I see it, arise from the fact that porn is - for the majority of healthy couples - a lousy substitute for the real thing whereas people who seem to get offended believe that it is an _improvement_ over the real thing for some reason. In some cases it might be (and we have seen many cases on TAM when this is the case and after digging further it always turns out that there are more deep-seeded issues than porn) but in the majority of cases (outside of TAM, in real life), it isn't. Many studies support this and it's not something I am plucking out of thin air. Perhaps if women didn't threaten to leave their husbands any time porn came up, many men wouldn't have to go out of their way to hide it...
Anyway, I am not that interested in the porn topic. Somebody mentioned 'bringing porn (techniques) to bed' as a turn off, even though in view of the responses of the thread, this seemed ironic. Unfortunately I responded.

The topic of *emotional connection* in relation with the thread title is more interesting to me because from what I can tell, it seems to mean different things to different people (all valid and interesting view points) and I am very curious about the diversity of opinions and haven't made up my mind at all. So far, my interpretation of it is that it is akin to 'having a great time with your partner' in bed. But it's the subtleties I am after because I want to make sure my wife gets *the best* out the little time that we have with each other.


----------



## Faithful Wife

inmyprime said:


> Gosh, my post must have hit a spot of sorts...
> 
> ...
> 
> *If my wife decided that BBC porn turned her on*, I would not be disturbed by it in the slightest. In fact I would probably find a way to build it into our foreplay (other than painting my own c*ck black...although who knows, this might do the trick. Why is there an embedded assumption that only black c*cks are large?).


"Deciding that it turned her on" is much different than she's watching it regularly, hiding it from you, lying when she gets caught, fantasizing constantly about huge black c*cks including when you are having sex with her, and in her mind nothing else will ever stack up to what she's seeing in porn, she watches it every time you turn your back, every time she is in the bathroom alone, etc. If this were the case, I do think you would be disturbed by it more than slightly.

Your statement about "why is there an embedded assumption?" is just the tinge of jealousy I'm talking about. Now again....you can't take your own wife who only ever enjoyed seeing some women soap each other up, and assume you'd know how you would feel if she was entirely different in this are and couldn't get enough of seeing huge black c*cks. I don't believe for a moment you wouldn't be hurt and insecure if you actually lived the scenario I've described.

The reason your post touched a nerve with me is because you spoke for "men" and said that "men" aren't lusting for the women's bodies in porn and that they always love their wife's body more. You are way off base here and are only speaking for yourself, and when you do that but project it upon "men", then women who have husbands who are much different than you rightly feel you don't know what you're talking about (WRT their own life and husband). It is a disservice for you or any man to try to play down a woman's feelings when her husband is FAR different than you are.


----------



## 269370

Faithful Wife said:


> "Deciding that it turned her on" is much different than she's watching it regularly, hiding it from you, lying when she gets caught, fantasizing constantly about huge black c*cks including when you are having sex with her, and in her mind nothing else will ever stack up to what she's seeing in porn, she watches it every time you turn your back, every time she is in the bathroom alone, etc. If this were the case, I do think you would be disturbed by it more than slightly.
> 
> Your statement about *"why is there an embedded assumption?"* is just the tinge of jealousy I'm talking about.


This was a joke. No jealousy. Please don't project what I am supposed to be feeling.



Faithful Wife said:


> Now again....you can't take your own wife who only ever enjoyed seeing some women soap each other up, and assume you'd know how you would feel if she was entirely different in this are and couldn't get enough of seeing huge black c*cks. I don't believe for a moment you wouldn't be hurt and insecure if you actually lived the scenario I've described.
> 
> The reason your post touched a nerve with me is because you spoke for "men" and said that "men" aren't lusting for the women's bodies in porn and that they always love their wife's body more. You are way off base here and are only speaking for yourself, and when you do that but project it upon "men", then women who have husbands who are much different than you rightly feel you don't know what you're talking about (WRT their own life and husband).


I was speaking for the 'majority of men' (and I shall provide this disclaimer should I use the term again in future, this is what my lawyers tell me 
I am surprised that you don't see that it is in your post, where you clearly mention an extremely specific example and then declare everything I said about porn invalid, unless my wife experienced & went through that specific example of yours. I mentioned the closest thing (lesbian scenes). I could just as much start getting paranoid that my wife could be into some woman on woman action, secretly or not secretly. But I ain't. And it doesn't bother me. I don't see why it has to be black c*cks or nothing.



Faithful Wife said:


> It is a disservice for you or any man to try to play down a *woman's feelings* when her husband is FAR different than you are.


And *that* is the crux of the matter: I do not wish to downplay *your* feelings about whatever may have happened to *you* or some single cases scattered over TAM. However that is not the majority of the cases that I am referring to and if you insist that it is (because I wouldn't know otherwise since my wife isn't seemingly that much into black c*cks), then lets just agree to disagree and move on.


----------



## uhtred

Actually she did like it and got huge orgasms from it (but she usually has intense orgasms anyway). But as the novelty wore off, she decided she liked it less than normal sized toys (for when we used toys). For us toys are not a substitute for intercourse, just a different thing to do. 

as you say, she generally denies me sex anyway. I suppose I would feel differently if she denied me sex *because* of my penis size, but that clearly isn't the case. 





Faithful Wife said:


> But even with the toy, your opinion about "how you would feel" is shaped by the fact that you tried and she didn't like it.
> 
> What if she did like it, had huge orgasms from it, then took it underground and used it without you every chance she got, meanwhile denied you sex (even though she already does that part)? Your opinion would be different.


----------



## UMP

So, 
We went from "what makes a good lover" to "Big Black C$cks."

Wow! I guess I'll post in the ladies lounge more often


----------



## Faithful Wife

UMP said:


> So,
> We went from "what makes a good lover" to "Big Black C$cks."
> 
> Wow! I guess I'll post in the ladies lounge more often


You're welcome, glad I could help.


----------



## Faithful Wife

inmyprime said:


> *I was speaking for the 'majority of men'* (and I shall provide this disclaimer should I use the term again in future, this is what my lawyers tell me
> I am surprised that you don't see that it is in your post, where you clearly mention an extremely specific example and then declare everything I said about porn invalid, unless my wife experienced & went through that specific example of yours. I mentioned the closest thing (lesbian scenes). I could just as much start getting paranoid that my wife could be into some woman on woman action, secretly or not secretly. But I ain't. And it doesn't bother me. I don't see why it has to be black c*cks or nothing.
> 
> 
> And *that* is the crux of the matter: I do not wish to downplay *your* feelings about whatever may have happened to *you* or some single cases scattered over TAM. However that is not the majority of the cases that I am referring to and if you insist that it is (because I wouldn't know otherwise since my wife isn't seemingly that much into black c*cks), then lets just agree to disagree and move on.


I know there is no way to know or find out, but I do not think your attitude reflects the "majority of men" on this issue.

For the record, I've never been with a man who disrespected me in any way, including via porn use. What I have done though is listen to and read messages from hundreds of both men and women who HAVE been very hurt by their partner's porn use. Yes, including many men. Yes, some of them really would be ok with BBC but freak out if their woman watches girl on girl. Yes, some of them also freak out when they find out their wives are reading erotica. And then it goes on from there....chatting, sexting, webcam, all the way up to meeting strangers in real life in some cases (and I'm talking about women doing all of these, not men). Yes, men do have plenty to worry about, just as women do, and yes they are incredibly jealous when the reality of what I'm saying happens to them. TAM is not the only source of my knowledge base (as I know it isn't yours, either). Fine to agree to disagree, but I still do not think you should speak as if the majority of men think the way you do.

I'm quite aware that the majority of women don't feel the way I do (I'm not talking about the porn part, I mean just in general) and so instead of speaking for them, the ones who feel differently than I do, I instead speak what I've heard them say and try to convey their feelings and try to empathize even if it isn't how I feel. What you are doing is insisting that the men who really are doing things that harm their marriages and their wives are the outliers or are rare somehow, based on the fact the "you" don't feel that way and you think you speak for the average man. You don't.


----------



## Taxman

It is all in knowing what her hot buttons are and using them. She says that I am a good lover. I know that she has erogenous zones other than her breasts and vagina. I know that she nearly comes from my kissing and nibbling at her inner thighs. She loves to have her neck kissed and nibbled. And her major turn on; while we are f**king, I will bite and suckle her toes, usually when I suck her big toe while plunging in and out, she will have two to three major orgasms. We make sure that we take time, and sessions go beyond an hour or so (not a fan of quickies).


----------



## Fozzy

UMP said:


> So,
> We went from "what makes a good lover" to "Big Black C$cks."
> 
> Wow! I guess I'll post in the ladies lounge more often


Yeah, but come on. Have you seen Lexington Steele?


That thing has its own off-ramp.


----------



## Faithful Wife

uhtred said:


> Actually she did like it and got huge orgasms from it (but she usually has intense orgasms anyway). But as the novelty wore off, she decided she liked it less than normal sized toys (for when we used toys). For us toys are not a substitute for intercourse, just a different thing to do.
> 
> as you say, she generally denies me sex anyway. I suppose I would feel differently if she denied me sex *because* of my penis size, but that clearly isn't the case.


What if you found out she was denying you sex because every time you left the house she went and pulled out the huge toy and turned on some BBC porn? Not saying this is the case, but it is exactly the case (in reverse) for many women.


----------



## uhtred

If she was turning me down for sex and masturbating, I'd be unhappy. If she wasn't turning me down, I wouldn't care at all. Its not a concern over what she is using to masturbate, but rather over her turning to something other than me for sex, while denying me sex. 








Faithful Wife said:


> What if you found out she was denying you sex because every time you left the house she went and pulled out the huge toy and turned on some BBC porn? Not saying this is the case, but it is exactly the case (in reverse) for many women.


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> What if you found out she was denying you sex because every time you left the house she went and pulled out the huge toy and turned on some BBC porn? Not saying this is the case, but it is exactly the case (in reverse) for many women.


Ouch! Good points FW.

In my case Mrs. Conan would be in for some sweat equity and spankings.

She has learned to like spanking though and she might just do things to "earn" them. LOL!


----------



## ConanHub

UMP said:


> So,
> We went from "what makes a good lover" to "Big Black C$cks."
> 
> Wow! I guess I'll post in the ladies lounge more often


I personally like blue and green myself!😁


----------



## alexm

inmyprime said:


> You mean you prefer to focus on yourself rather than anything/anyone else? I am not sure I still understand what the difference between 'making love' and 'having sex' is. Isn't it just a state of mind?
> Let me try a different way: have you _tried_ 'making love' instead of having sex? What did you do differently?


To me, the difference is pretty simple.

When my wife and I have _sex_ (which is ~80% of the time), it's much like what one sees in porn. Yes, she likes it this way. Go figure. It's not one-sided or anything, it's just... more to the point. Which is orgasm. She usually gets one or more through oral first, then another one or two through PIV. She likes to get pounded, for lack of a better term, and preferably from behind, which is how we usually end up. If she's on top, then it's me who's doing the thrusting, not her.

When we _make love_, it's slower, passionate, more deliberate, more sensual, more kissing. It eventually ramps up when either one, or both of us, approach orgasm, but to get to that point, we're in no rush. We don't do doggy style when we make love, and if she's on top, she does the moving, not me, as opposed to above. Oral is foreplay only, and slower, with no orgasm. When we make love, she usually has one orgasm through PIV, sometimes two. Again, as opposed to above, where she'll get off numerous times.


----------



## Keke24

inmyprime said:


> This was a joke. No jealousy. Please don't project what I am supposed to be feeling.
> 
> 
> 
> I was speaking for the 'majority of men' (and I shall provide this disclaimer should I use the term again in future, this is what my lawyers tell me
> I am surprised that you don't see that it is in your post, where you clearly mention an extremely specific example and then declare everything I said about porn invalid, unless my wife experienced & went through that specific example of yours. I mentioned the closest thing (lesbian scenes). I could just as much start getting paranoid that my wife could be into some woman on woman action, secretly or not secretly. But I ain't. And it doesn't bother me. I don't see why it has to be black c*cks or nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> And *that* is the crux of the matter: I do not wish to downplay *your* feelings about whatever may have happened to *you* or some single cases scattered over TAM. However that is not the majority of the cases that I am referring to and if you insist that it is (because I wouldn't know otherwise since my wife isn't seemingly that much into black c*cks), then lets just agree to disagree and move on.


Honestly before coming on TAM, I had zero awareness of the turn-off towards porn by some women. My sisters all watched porn, in fact my interest in it started when the oldest shared that she had used it to teach herself to cum. Much later, after many frustrating failed attempts, I too was able to cum with it playing in the background. Similarly, close girlfriends also make reference to porn and we compare/share some of our favourite scenes.

So in my experience I really haven't come across women who find porn destructive. I agree that men who get addicted to it introduce a very unhealthy dynamic to a relationship. I would really be curious what percentage of women have had the experience of it destroying their sex life, what percentage of men/women find it generally unappealing, what percentage of men find themselves getting addicted to it and what percentage of women find it useful like myself.


----------



## alexm

inmyprime said:


> I have to try the looking in the eye thing. I have a feeling it would freak my wife out...I can't often look people in the eyes when I speak to them, during sex, this might be even stranger...What happens if one person bursts out laughing?


I couldn't look people in the eyes, either, until I was in my early 20's. For me, it was a confidence thing. Not that I had NONE, just that I felt overly conscious about it.

I was like that until somebody pointed it out to me, and I decided then and there that I'd make the effort to change, and I did.

A good trick that somebody told me is to look at the space between somebody's eyes when you're talking to them. This avoids your own eyes going back and forth, or making you look c0ck-eyed.

It was surprisingly easy to do, and I noticed very quickly that people were more comfortable with me in general, not just in speaking with me. Now I TOTALLY notice when somebody doesn't look me in the eyes when speaking, and I find it terribly awkward.

I also had a very limp handshake (which, as a man, is noticeable). At the same time, I made the effort to give a firm handshake, and the difference it made was noticeable, as well. It commands a certain respect, both things, and people tend to react accordingly. Just don't over-do either. As a smaller man (I'm 5'7"), you're already at a certain disadvantage before you even open your mouth, meaning that most people have already started to judge you. Small, quiet and shy = weak. Small, loud and brash = over-compensating. The trick is to balance every thing.

The worst, though, is the people who look you up and down while speaking to you. Hate that. And those that try to rip your arm off when they shake your hand.


----------



## lucy999

alexm said:


> The worst, though, is the people who look you up and down while speaking to you. Hate that.


I do too. It's rude. The women in my circle call that "elevator eyes." Women are the worst about it in my experience. Sure, men do it too for other reasons(checking a woman out), but women are so damned competitive I'm convinced that generally, they do it to knock you off your game.


----------



## Diana7

WorkingWife said:


> Too be fair, I think many women find porn destructive to one's sex life because 1) men get addicted to it and start to prefer masturbating to porn over making love to their wife. 2) The contrast effect - No matter how attractive the wife, there will always be porn start with better bodies. Lusting after these women tends to make the man less satisfied with his naturally aging wife with a normal body.
> 
> For myself - I've seen porn a few times, but it mostly made me feel sad. I couldn't stop thinking about the fact that those "actresses" used to be someone's little girl. They still are a daughter, sister, mother... I wondered what happened to them.


I agree, you are so right. I see porn as a very dangerous thing that causes such damage in marriages and relationships and in individuals lives. Porn use is now mentioned in 60% of all divorces. I would hate it if my husband thought that porn was in anyway Ok or a good place to learn. For a man to be thinking about the other women he has seen while he has sex with his wife is so wrong. For me its a big no no. How can he not compare her with the other women who are after all just acting? 

We are all different and what some women want some would hate. Someone mentioned they liked 'mild choking' . I cant think of anything worse, and many more things that have been mentioned here I would hate and have no interest in. As someone said, its what your wife thinks that matters not what other women have said they want.


----------



## Keke24

Diana7 said:


> I agree, you are so right. I see porn as a very dangerous thing that causes such damage in marriages and relationships and in individuals lives. Porn use is now mentioned in 60% of all divorces. I would hate it if my husband thought that porn was in anyway Ok or a good place to learn. For a man to be thinking about the other women he has seen while he has sex with his wife is so wrong. For me its a big no no. How can he not compare her with the other women who are after all just acting?
> 
> We are all different and what some women want some would hate. Someone mentioned they liked 'mild choking'. I cant think of anything worse, and many more things that have been mentioned here I would hate and have no interest in. As someone said, its what your wife thinks that matters not what other women have said they want.


Wow, this is so contrary to my views and experiences. It still surprises me how diverse we all are. I can't imagine sex with my partner without the domination (eg. choking, spanking, hair pulling etc) that is the norm for us. I suppose in the very same way you can't possibly imagine your sex life with it. Very intriguing. I suppose there must also be men who prefer the less dominating approach also. That really makes me feel lucky to have found a partner who not only has a similar drive but similar sexual interests.


----------



## Diana7

Keke24 said:


> Honestly before coming on TAM, I had zero awareness of the turn-off towards porn by some women. My sisters all watched porn, in fact my interest in it started when the oldest shared that she had used it to teach herself to cum. Much later, after many frustrating failed attempts, I too was able to cum with it playing in the background. Similarly, close girlfriends also make reference to porn and we compare/share some of our favourite scenes.
> 
> So in my experience I really haven't come across women who find porn destructive. I agree that men who get addicted to it introduce a very unhealthy dynamic to a relationship. I would really be curious what percentage of women have had the experience of it destroying their sex life, what percentage of men/women find it generally unappealing, what percentage of men find themselves getting addicted to it and what percentage of women find it useful like myself.


I know loads of women who don't look at porn and many men too. Its so damaging to the one who uses it and to so many marriages. I know 2 marriages myself that ended due to porn use, and in 60% of divorces now porn used is cited as the reason for it. 
Addiction to porn is a massive problem, I have heard of many women whose husbands wont have sex with them any more, due to their addiction, and others who cant even get an erection any more unless they look at porn. 
Its also having such a damaging effect on our children now as well, skewing their minds as to what a loving, caring, functional, unselfish relationship should be. Its making them see girls as objects for their own lusts instead of valuable people to be respected and cared about. Many of them are also into violent porn, and their young developing minds are being terribly damaged. 
I fear for their future. Who knows what they may do to women.

Also many women in porn films were sexually abused as children, many don't even like sex let alone love it. Poor women who think so little of themselves that they have resorted to doing that for a living. The only winners(for now anyway) are those who make it and create it. 

For those who look at porn, would you like your 18 year old daughter to be in porn films?To be lusted over by so many older men? They are all someones child.


----------



## Diana7

Keke24 said:


> Wow, this is so contrary to my views and experiences. It still surprises me how diverse we all are. I can't imagine sex with my partner without the domination (eg. choking, spanking, hair pulling etc) that is the norm for us. I suppose in the very same way you can't possibly imagine your sex life with it. Very intriguing. I suppose there must also be men who prefer the less dominating approach also. That really makes me feel lucky to have found a partner who not only has a similar drive but similar sexual interests.


It makes me glad to have a husband who would never use violence on me or try and choke me! For me its all about expressing sexual love, there are so many things you can do and enjoy without violence. Someone hurting me isn't expressing love. Some have even died after doing that! 
Have you ever asked why you need to be hurt or hurt another to get enjoyment?


----------



## FeministInPink

Diana7 said:


> It makes me glad to have a husband who would never use violence on me or try and choke me! For me its all about expressing sexual love, there are so many things you can do and enjoy without violence. Someone hurting me isn't expressing love. *Some have even died after doing that! *
> Have you ever asked why you need to be hurt or hurt another to get enjoyment?


You're talking about asphyxiation play, which is different than what keke is talking about it. BDSM play, when practiced correctly, is perfectly safe.


----------



## lucy999

Diana7 said:


> It makes me glad to have a husband who would never use violence on me or try and choke me! For me its all about expressing sexual love, there are so many things you can do and enjoy without violence. Someone hurting me isn't expressing love. Some have even died after doing that!
> Have you ever asked why you need to be hurt or hurt another to get enjoyment?


I know this wasn't asked of me but I'll chime in. It's more of a role playing situation for me. Not a fan of choking (that's too far for me) but ive often wondered why i like it so rough and domineering? I had an idyllic childhood, no abuse, physical or sexual to speak of. Maybe its because i have a job where i always take charge and i just want someone else to steer the ship? Im a very decisive, take charge person in all aspects of my life, its nice for someone to tell me what to do for a change. I get SO TIRED of being charles in charge. And, it really turns me on. It is what it is.


----------



## 269370

Faithful Wife said:


> I know there is no way to know or find out, but I do not think your attitude reflects the "majority of men" on this issue.


There is actually. If you speak to real people and not base your picture entirely on certain TAM cases. You can also google studies on porn and how the rates of rape and sexual violence have gone down dramatically in the western countries since porn became widely and easily accessible since the 80'. Why do you consider anecdotal 'evidence' from selected TAM posts superior to studies taken from the general population?



Faithful Wife said:


> For the record, I've never been with a man who disrespected me in any way, including via porn use. What I have done though is listen to and read messages from hundreds of both men and women who HAVE been very hurt by their partner's porn use. Yes, including many men. Yes, some of them really would be ok with BBC but freak out if their woman watches girl on girl. Yes, some of them also freak out when they find out their wives are reading erotica. And then it goes on from there....chatting, sexting, webcam, all the way up to meeting strangers in real life in some cases (and I'm talking about women doing all of these, not men). Yes, men do have plenty to worry about, just as women do, and yes they are incredibly jealous when the reality of what I'm saying happens to them. TAM is not the only source of my knowledge base (as I know it isn't yours, either). Fine to agree to disagree, but I still do not think you should speak as if the majority of men think the way you do.


Ok so you haven't actually experienced 'neglect via a porn addict partner' yourself so your opinion is based on a 'precise' sample of 0. (I am sorry but TAM posts here and there blaming porn don't count because you have no idea what the actual underlying problem might be). Whereas you feel justified to tell me (as a man) how I should be feeling or what my motivations are whenever I watch porn? (since you appear to speak for this silent majority of men who have been hurting all these women). It is difficult to even begin to argue with the logic. 



Faithful Wife said:


> I'm quite aware that the majority of women don't feel the way I do (I'm not talking about the porn part, I mean just in general) and so instead of speaking for them, the ones who feel differently than I do, I instead speak what I've heard them say and try to convey their feelings and try to empathize even if it isn't how I feel. What you are doing is insisting that the men who really are doing things that harm their marriages and their wives are the outliers or are rare somehow, based on the fact the "you" don't feel that way and you think you speak for the average man. You don't.


So instead of speaking for all these 'other women' why not just speak for yourself? Which is what I have primarily been doing (speaking for myself and for my relationship). I *know* how I feel about porn. I *know* how my wife feels about porn and exactly what role it plays in our relationship. I feel justified stating my opinion on this matter since it at the very least includes *our* experience. What I do find offensive is when someone tells me how we *should* feel about it, based on *other people's* stories and accept it as universal truth.


----------



## Faithful Wife

inmyprime said:


> There is actually. *If you speak to real people and not base your picture entirely on certain TAM cases*. You can also google studies on porn and how the rates of rape and sexual violence have gone down dramatically in the western countries since porn became widely and easily accessible since the 80'. Why do you consider anecdotal 'evidence' from selected TAM posts superior to studies taken from the general population?


I already said in another post that I DON'T base my opinion on what is at TAM, and also said I know you don't either.


----------



## 269370

Keke24 said:


> Wow, this is so contrary to my views and experiences. It still surprises me how diverse we all are. I can't imagine sex with my partner without the domination (eg. choking, spanking, hair pulling etc) that is the norm for us. I suppose in the very same way you can't possibly imagine your sex life with it. Very intriguing. I suppose there must also be men who prefer the less dominating approach also. That really makes me feel lucky to have found a partner who not only has a similar drive but similar sexual interests.


The general theme is the same though: domineering, confident male partner, who pushes the boundaries as far as is comfortable for the woman. You are possibly a couple of levels higher than most when it comes to expression. Although I also pushed my wife a little in this direction and was gobsmacked when it turned out that she enjoys that kind of sex more than I could have imagined.
(Not always: there is a mixture, but I would say her orgasms are the stronger the more she lets go of boundaries. Sex is a form of escapism from conventional norms of everyday life. It only works when there is 100% trust. Speaking only on behalf of ourselves


----------



## 269370

Faithful Wife said:


> The reason your post touched a nerve with me is because you spoke for "men" and said that "men" aren't lusting for the women's bodies in porn and that they always love their wife's body more. You are way off base here and are only speaking for yourself, and when you do that but project it upon "men", then women who have husbands who are much different than you rightly feel you don't know what you're talking about (WRT their own life and husband). It is a disservice for you or any man to try to play down a woman's feelings when her husband is FAR different than you are.


I think I understand where you are coming from. If this was true however (if I projected what I feel on all other men), I would write after every post where a wife complains that her husband prefers porn over sex with her "not to worry, he still likes you more and will come around". *I would never dream of doing that*. I don't live in lala land and acknowledge that in some instances, excessive porn usage can lead to problems. But those are exceptional cases when it comes to the *general population*. If porn was really that much superior for the majority of men (in the real world) they would stop having sex with their wives en masse. That is just not the case. Even on TAM, many men who admit they watch porn do so because the wife deny them sex. Anyway, I would find it all easier to understand if your extrapolations came from personal experience. I really don't understand what is the point of extrapolating from other people's experiences, of which one usually only knows one side of the story anyway.


----------



## ConanHub

inmyprime said:


> There is actually. If you speak to real people and not base your picture entirely on certain TAM cases. You can also google studies on porn and how the rates of rape and sexual violence have gone down dramatically in the western countries since porn became widely and easily accessible since the 80'. Why do you consider anecdotal 'evidence' from selected TAM posts superior to studies taken from the general population?
> 
> 
> 
> Ok so you haven't actually experienced 'neglect via a porn addict partner' yourself so your opinion is based on a 'precise' sample of 0. (I am sorry but TAM posts here and there blaming porn don't count because you have no idea what the actual underlying problem might be). Whereas you feel justified to tell me (as a man) how I should be feeling or what my motivations are whenever I watch porn? (since you appear to speak for this silent majority of men who have been hurting all these women). It is difficult to even begin to argue with the logic.
> 
> 
> 
> So instead of speaking for all these 'other women' why not just speak for yourself? Which is what I have primarily been doing (speaking for myself and for my relationship). I *know* how I feel about porn. I *know* how my wife feels about porn and exactly what role it plays in our relationship. I feel justified stating my opinion on this matter since it at the very least includes *our* experience. You cannot say the same. What I do find offensive is when someone tells me how we *should* feel about it, based on *other people's* stories and accept it as universal truth.


I think your off a degree or two myself.

I think you might be suffering from porn brain.:grin2:

Interesting reach. More porn=less sexual assault and rape. Hmmm....

BTW. FW has a lot of years of research under her belt and TAM is only a fraction of her experience.

Maybe slow it down a little and actually take a look at who you are talking to before making any more incorrect statements?


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> I already said in another post that I DON'T base my opinion on what is at TAM, and also said I know you don't either.


Are you quite certain it really matters what you say in this particular conversation? :wink2:


----------



## 269370

ConanHub said:


> I think your off a degree or two myself.
> 
> I think you might be suffering from porn brain.:grin2:
> 
> Interesting reach. More porn=less sexual assault and rape. Hmmm....


I don't watch much porn (unless it's home made).

Perhaps google next time yourself before insulting me: http://aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/proceedings/14/kutchinsky.pdf (read the conclusion)

and

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault

PS: I'd like to get the thread back on topic.


----------



## Keke24

True, I wouldn't classify it as violence although I would say there is a pain aspect that is very real and immensely pleasurable. I don't think it's much different for a woman to want to be pounded, to be attracted to big d*cks, to want to be grabbed and tossed around into positions. 

There is something incredibly sexy about being dominated by a man, to have it done to me by the man I love is a very erotic experience. There are levels of domination and the higher you go, the greater the return in pleasure and there's understandably there's also greater the risk. Risk of being labeled as a ****, someone who wants to be used, the risk of being taken advantage of, etc, you can think of other stuff.

I love that I can be honest with my partner about the kind of sex I want. To have him enjoy it in the same way feels so good. It makes me embrace my vulnerability and give in to him even more during sex. No one is really getting hurt. Quite the contrary, we have a very satisfying sex life. We argue like normal couples and we love each other all over like normal couples.


FeministInPink said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It makes me glad to have a husband who would never use violence on me or try and choke me! For me its all about expressing sexual love, there are so many things you can do and enjoy without violence. Someone hurting me isn't expressing love. *Some have even died after doing that! *
> Have you ever asked why you need to be hurt or hurt another to get enjoyment?
> 
> 
> 
> You're talking about asphyxiation play, which is different than what keke is talking about it. BDSM play, when practiced ocorrectly, is perfectly safe.
Click to expand...


----------



## ConanHub

inmyprime said:


> I don't watch much porn (unless it's home made).
> 
> Perhaps google next time yourself before insulting me: http://aic.gov.au/media_library/publications/proceedings/14/kutchinsky.pdf (read the conclusion)
> 
> and
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...evidence-mounts-more-porn-less-sexual-assault


Oh I've got close to 20 years of experience where the rubber meets the road and human drama is unveiled.

I do a fair bit of research that requires more than clicking on a tab.

The smily face after my porn brain statement means to take it lightly, like a joke, you know when someone ribs you with a grin.


----------



## uhtred

There is such a huge range in what people enjoy and you are very lucky to be with someone who shares your interests. In addition to the often discussed mismatches in drive, there are mismatches in level of, and types of kinkiness. I think there is a tendency for some people to think that their sexual interest are widely shared.

Even in what might seem to others like an already narrow set of people who like BDSM like activities, there is huge variation -whether it is pretend or real pain, domination, etc. 

There are people who think being spanked during sex is fun and sexy and others who would consider it abuse. 

BTW, and to be clear: This is all about *consensual* play where both parties are actually enjoying themselves and have taken proper precautions. This is completely different from abuse - even though it might look similar to an outside observer at a quick glance.

This is one of the reasons I think it is so important for a couple to at least discuss, if not engage in intimacy before they commit to a long term relationship. 

This circles back to this discussion - a "good lover" can be very different to different people. There are likely some common attributes (like caring about their partners enjoyment) but a large range of differences.













Keke24 said:


> True, I wouldn't classify it as violence although I would say there is a pain aspect that is very real and immensely pleasurable. I don't think it's much different for a woman to want to be pounded, to be attracted to big d*cks, to want to be grabbed and tossed around into positions.
> 
> There is something incredibly sexy about being dominated by a man, to have it done to me by the man I love is a very erotic experience. There are levels of domination and the higher you go, the greater the return in pleasure and there's understandably there's also greater the risk. Risk of being labeled as a ****, someone who wants to be used, the risk of being taken advantage of, etc, you can think of other stuff.
> 
> I love that I can be honest with my partner about the kind of sex I want. To have him enjoy it in the same way feels so good. It makes me embrace my vulnerability and give in to him even more during sex. No one is really getting hurt. Quite the contrary, we have a very satisfying sex life. We argue like normal couples and we love each other all over like normal couples.


----------



## MrsHolland

UMP said:


> It's all about education. In my opinion, regardless of whether I am currently good or bad in bed, I can assure you that I can always be better. Educating myself is key to that success. My wife is not very vocal about what she likes or does not like. In fact, I don't think she knows herself. It's up to me to learn, apply and evaluate (with her).
> 
> Nothing like TAM for a REAL sex education.


While it is an interesting discussion (and no one enjoys discussion about sex more than me > ) I still don't see how educating yourself in what other women think is a good lover is going to help you *unless* you can have a discussion with your wife to find out what she likes and then apply this education to improving the skills to suit what she wants in a lover.

eg I love it when MrH surprises me and comes home in role play gear and then dominates me. I enjoy giving him NSA BJ's or having anal which is mostly for his benefit. Even though I am the giver in these instances I view all of this as part of him being a good lover as he knows me well enough to help me indulge in the things I really enjoy. The only part of any of this that could be considered educational is the simple mantra of "communicate and know your partner so well that it all comes naturally".

Now if your wife really loved role play or anal and you already knew this, a technical education can then be sought. Until you know what she wants then a discussion with online randoms won't be of much benefit.

I could ask men what makes a woman a good lover but it is irrelevant because the only man that I care about is my partner. The rest is just talking about sex in general which is of course a worthwhile past time.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> The rest is just talking about sex in general which is of course a worthwhile past time.


I agreed with your whole post....except this part. >


Talking about sex in general will always be my past time.


----------



## MrsHolland

Faithful Wife said:


> I agreed with your whole post....except this part. >
> 
> 
> Talking about sex in general will always be my past time.


I said it *is *a worthwhile past time, I think we agree. Can you explain what part of that statement you disagree with?


----------



## aine

UMP said:


> A question for the ladies,
> 
> In your circle of conversation when you say "he's terrible in bed" or "he's great in bed", what exactly do you mean by this?
> 
> Physically speaking, what makes for a great lover? (let's assume he has the emotional aspect down.)
> 
> What makes for a bad lover?


A good lover: someone who cares about who they are making love to and shows it, passionate, tender, giving, in control when needed, knows how to turn me on, enjoys foreplay, doesn't make it all about him.

A bad lover: someone who doesn't know what he is doing, only concerned about his own satisfaction, no foreplay, only interested in getting to the end


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> While it is an interesting discussion (and no one enjoys discussion about sex more than me > ) I still don't see how educating yourself in what other women think is a good lover is going to help you *unless* you can have a discussion with your wife to find out what she likes and then apply this education to improving the skills to suit what she wants in a lover.
> 
> eg I love it when MrH surprises me and comes home in role play gear and then dominates me. I enjoy giving him NSA BJ's or having anal which is mostly for his benefit. Even though I am the giver in these instances I view all of this as part of him being a good lover as he knows me well enough to help me indulge in the things I really enjoy. The only part of any of this that could be considered educational is the simple mantra of "communicate and know your partner so well that it all comes naturally".
> 
> Now if your wife really loved role play or anal and you already knew this, a technical education can then be sought. Until you know what she wants then a discussion with online randoms won't be of much benefit.
> 
> I could ask men what makes a woman a good lover but it is irrelevant because the only man that I care about is my partner. The rest is just talking about sex in general which is of course a worthwhile past time.


Many women (including my wife) are too shy to express their sexual fantasies verbally so it sometimes takes trial & error to find out in which direction to take things. Even then, variety is also required within a certain 'genre' so it actually does help men understand women's psychology better (not to mention techniques) by reading personal experiences. Sex seems often more 'psychological' to women which is a concept that is much more difficult to grasp for men.

Anal is a bit of a mystery to me: it's difficult to imagine that the penetrative act itself can be pleasurable for a woman (although I think on a few occasions my wife enjoyed the kinkiness & 'punishment' element of it more than anything else about it). But it definitely does sometimes increase or change intensity of orgasm when something is 'up' there (but not moving vigorously). Plus there are nerve endings on the outside. Are there women who actually enjoy the sensation of PIA? Maybe I am not doing it right. I know it takes forever to 'warm up' the area. Role play, she definitely likes.

PS: sorry to be dense but what is an *NSA* BJ? It's not a blowjob of national security I gathered so much.


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> Many women (including my wife) are too shy to express their sexual fantasies verbally so it sometimes takes trial & error to find out in which direction to take things. Even then, variety is also required within a certain 'genre' so it actually does help men understand women's psychology better (not to mention techniques) by reading personal experiences. Sex seems often more 'psychological' to women which is a concept that is much more difficult to grasp for men.
> 
> Anal is a bit of a mystery to me: it's difficult to imagine that the penetrative act itself can be pleasurable for a woman (although I think on a few occasions my wife enjoyed the kinkiness & 'punishment' element of it more than anything else about it). But it definitely does sometimes increase or change intensity of orgasm when something is 'up' there (but not moving vigorously). Plus there are nerve endings on the outside. Are there women who actually enjoy the sensation of PIA? Maybe I am not doing it right. I know it takes forever to 'warm up' the area. Role play, she definitely likes.
> 
> *PS: sorry to be dense but what is an NSA BJ? It's not a blowjob of national security I gathered so much.*


:lol:

No Strings Attached Blow Job. Meaning nothing in return and I mean nothing. He used to try to give me mine but there is something about the NSA part that thrills me. It did take some time for him to understand just how much I like doing this but bc he is an amazing lover he listened to me and accepted my desire even if he does not understand it. That is a what a great lover does.


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> :lol:
> 
> No Strings Attached Blow Job. Meaning nothing in return and I mean nothing. He used to try to give me mine but there is something about the NSA part that thrills me. It did take some time for him to understand just how much I like doing this but bc he is an amazing lover he listened to me and accepted my desire even if he does not understand it. That is a what a great lover does.


Oh wow. It's good to know that it's a genuine 'thing'. I always felt guilty and somewhat incompetent (at not being able to arouse my wife enough for her to also want to come). But what confused me was the fact that she was highly aroused and still wanted to perform the NSA BJ thing on occasion. I thought it was just a 'polite' way to get me off her back (or front).


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> Oh wow. It's good to know that it's a genuine 'thing'. *I always felt guilty and somewhat incompetent (at not being able to arouse my wife enough for her to also want to come)*. But what confused me was the fact that she was highly aroused and still wanted to perform the NSA BJ thing on occasion. *I thought it was just a 'polite' way to get me off her back (or front)*.


Oh God no. Well I obviously cannot speak for anyone else but in my world the NSA BJ is a big sexual thrill. It is extremely arousing but let's put it into context... he is the best lover I have ever had, he is giving, sensual, plays hard and we have sex at least every day (more sometimes depending on life and how many of our 5 teens are at home or whatever else life throws at us). Our sex life is 10/10 at a minimum often I would say it is more than 10/10 so I am safe and free to give NSA types of sex because I am very much fulfilled with our sex life and I am very content in the knowledge that I will and do get what I want out of it. Part of what I want is a bit of a power play, to see and hear him weak at the knees is a power trip.

Just ask your wife why she gives NSA BJ's, I hope the answer is similar to mine, if it is you must be worth it to her. 

Going back to my earlier question to the OP, I was eluding to the idea that if someone has to ask what a good lover is then perhaps the question has more to do with them wanting to know if *they *are good or not. For me it is about the reflection and response you get back. I give a lot to my man because he is a good lover, he gives me a huge amount not just because he loves sex but because I am a good lover, I know that. We also give each other a lot outside the bedroom because we are fulfilled in the bedroom. As stupid as it sounds I love ironing his business shirts, I stand there day dreaming about having sex with him while I iron them, when he sees his wardrobe full of clean ironed shirts I tell him that they are there bc he is an exceptional lover, yes I'm a whack job >


----------



## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> I said it *is *a worthwhile past time, I think we agree. Can you explain what part of that statement you disagree with?


Oh! So sorry, I misread it, thought it said is NOT a worthwhile past time. Yes, we do agree. :x


----------



## MrsHolland

Faithful Wife said:


> Oh! So sorry, I misread it, thought it said is NOT a worthwhile past time. Yes, we do agree. :x


Oh dear, I am offended now. Have you slept through all my boring drivel about how amazing my sex life is? Yes talking about sex is a worthwhile past time :grin2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

inmyprime said:


> Anal is a bit of a mystery to me: it's difficult to imagine that the penetrative act itself can be pleasurable for a woman (although I think on a few occasions my wife enjoyed the kinkiness & 'punishment' element of it more than anything else about it). But it definitely does sometimes increase or change intensity of orgasm when something is 'up' there (but not moving vigorously). Plus there are nerve endings on the outside. Are there women who actually enjoy the sensation of PIA?


If a woman (or man) is really intent on being able to get into it (receiving), then what happens is that you eventually learn how to relax in such a way that it doesn't hurt. At first this is incredibly difficult, then it gets a little easier and a little easier....until something in your brain snaps and your body suddenly responds by relaxing instead of by tightening when the event approaches. 

When you get to that point, then yes it can be pleasurable and can even cause O's. For me, the only lover I've ever done this with, we had incredibly deep intimacy all of the time anyway, but this particular act was somehow even more intimate. The intimacy combined with the pleasure was incredible.

If he and I were not so close and intimate I never would have gone there.

It was nothing like in porn where some poor soul is just getting their ass pounded. Gross.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MrsHolland said:


> Oh dear, I am offended now. Have you slept through all my boring drivel about how amazing my sex life is? Yes talking about sex is a worthwhile past time :grin2:


I was confused when I read it and didn't think it sounded right....but my eyes are getting so bad lately, ugh! I should have re-read it. Derp!


----------



## MrsHolland

Faithful Wife said:


> If a woman (or man) is really intent on being able to get into it (receiving), then what happens is that you eventually learn how to relax in such a way that it doesn't hurt. At first this is incredibly difficult, then it gets a little easier and a little easier....until something in your brain snaps and your body suddenly responds by relaxing instead of by tightening when the event approaches.
> 
> When you get to that point, then yes it can be pleasurable and can even cause O's. For me, the only lover I've ever done this with, we had incredibly deep intimacy all of the time anyway, but this particular act was somehow even more intimate. The intimacy combined with the pleasure was incredible.
> 
> If he and I were not so close and intimate I never would have gone there.
> 
> It was nothing like in porn where some poor soul is just getting their ass pounded. Gross.


Real life anal is nothing like porn IME. Oh those poor young folk who think porn is real. 

I talk to my kids about reality v's porn. They can block their ears and go la la la all they want but I have to let them know that porn is fiction. I am just glad I entered my sexual years pre internet porn and know that what is portrayed on screen is not how it is in real life.


----------



## uhtred

Some women really enjoy anal. Combined with other stimulation, anal (usually toy or finger), is the quickest way for my wife to O. We don't do it often, but its an occasional thing she likes. During some of our active times, we did do PIA and she very much enjoyed it - even the first time we tried.

Of course many men enjoy this as well - though many straight men are worried that it is "gay".

I think its something that many women will never enjoy and that's fine, there are plenty of other things to do. 





inmyprime said:


> snipo
> 
> Anal is a bit of a mystery to me: it's difficult to imagine that the penetrative act itself can be pleasurable for a woman (although I think on a few occasions my wife enjoyed the kinkiness & 'punishment' element of it more than anything else about it). But it definitely does sometimes increase or change intensity of orgasm when something is 'up' there (but not moving vigorously). Plus there are nerve endings on the outside. Are there women who actually enjoy the sensation of PIA? Maybe I am not doing it right. I know it takes forever to 'warm up' the area. Role play, she definitely likes.
> 
> PS: sorry to be dense but what is an *NSA* BJ? It's not a blowjob of national security I gathered so much.


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> Some women really enjoy anal. Combined with other stimulation, anal (usually toy or finger), is the quickest way for my wife to O. We don't do it often, but its an occasional thing she likes. During some of our active times, we did do PIA and she very much enjoyed it - even the first time we tried.
> 
> Of course many men enjoy this as well - though many straight men are worried that it is "gay".
> 
> I think its something that many women will never enjoy and that's fine, there are plenty of other things to do.


I personally find PIA a little overrated. At first, it feels great & tight but after a short while there's actually less 'grip' and friction for it to be as consistently enjoyable as PIV. I do like the idea of it and the fact that it's 'forbidden' but to be fair, it wasn't exactly designed for it...

As per your first para, I found the same (quicker orgasms for her through anal play). I was surprised since biologically why this should be the case, it doesn't really make a lot of sense (no nerves inside, no prostate gland either, as far as I know  and wondered if it's more of a psychological thing. 
Are there actually women who can come from PIA only? (no touching other stuff, that's cheating


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> Real life anal is nothing like porn IME. Oh those poor young folk who think porn is real.
> 
> I talk to my kids about reality v's porn. They can block their ears and go la la la all they want but I have to let them know that porn is fiction. I am just glad I entered my sexual years pre internet porn and know that what is portrayed on screen is not how it is in real life.


Not Porn again...While I agree that one shouldn't base ones expectations on what's on screen (that applies to Hollywood movies too) and be humble and not closed minded as a person in general, you might be surprised what some women are actually into (even here on TAM; perhaps worth it going back a few posts?). There is a sense of 'controlled' degradation and full submission that some enjoy with their partner (where 100% of trust is needed). This doesn't mean that this kind of treatment (some call it 'disrespect') is ever taken outside of bedroom, just that love finds many ways to express itself. Plus not all porn is 'mindless pounding' and I prefer not to use blanket generalisations (I know it is popular to do otherwise but I will keep trying). Just like there are rubbish H movies there are also plenty of rubbish porn movies (possibly more so, since guys are not necessarily always need to be that discernible in order to achieve an O).


----------



## Diana7

uhtred said:


> Some women really enjoy anal. Combined with other stimulation, anal (usually toy or finger), is the quickest way for my wife to O. We don't do it often, but its an occasional thing she likes. During some of our active times, we did do PIA and she very much enjoyed it - even the first time we tried.
> 
> Of course many men enjoy this as well - though many straight men are worried that it is "gay".
> 
> I think its something that many women will never enjoy and that's fine, there are plenty of other things to do.


Anal sex can damage the anus and cause issues later on life, such as leaking etc The muscles are designed to expel waste, not take in something, they go all the wrong way for that which is why they can get damaged.


----------



## Ursula

I think that for me, just being confident in what you're doing is a big hit! Willingness to try different positions and different things makes a good lover. And just having a general knowledge of how to move your own body. For me, my H doesn't touch on any of these; he's not overly confident, and really is only comfortable in 2-3 positions. There are things that I love, but he's not willing to try, and he's not able to move his hips, so when he's on top, and trying to move quickly, he kind of bounces his entire torso, bending his arms, which makes me giggle because it looks like he's doing pushups. :-D If we do stay together, this is something that will NEED to change, like 180 degrees.


----------



## Keke24

uhtred said:


> Some women really enjoy anal. Combined with other stimulation, anal (usually toy or finger), is the quickest way for my wife to O. We don't do it often, but its an occasional thing she likes. During some of our active times, we did do PIA and she very much enjoyed it - even the first time we tried.
> 
> Of course many men enjoy this as well - though many straight men are worried that it is "gay".
> 
> I think its something that many women will never enjoy and that's fine, there are plenty of other things to do.


My partner is one of those who felt it was gay. There's some serious homophobia in this country. 

I have not yet been able to cum through anal but I can see why it's the quickest way for your wife. The sensation is like nothing else I've experienced. It's a different kind of "filling" feeling. There's so much going on I have a hard time figuring out which sensation to focus on: the d*ck in my vagina or his fingers/the toy in my *ss. I'm turned on just thinking about it!


----------



## Ursula

Holy ****, I'm officially jealous. Sex lives like this actually EXIST?!? I've had some pretty fantastic partners in the past, but can barely remember what that was like, and of course, I wasn't married to any of them. Jesus Murphy, mind blown.




MrsHolland said:


> Oh God no. Well I obviously cannot speak for anyone else but in my world the NSA BJ is a big sexual thrill. It is extremely arousing but let's put it into context... he is the best lover I have ever had, he is giving, sensual, plays hard and we have sex at least every day (more sometimes depending on life and how many of our 5 teens are at home or whatever else life throws at us). Our sex life is 10/10 at a minimum often I would say it is more than 10/10 so I am safe and free to give NSA types of sex because I am very much fulfilled with our sex life and I am very content in the knowledge that I will and do get what I want out of it. Part of what I want is a bit of a power play, to see and hear him weak at the knees is a power trip.
> 
> Going back to my earlier question to the OP, I was eluding to the idea that if someone has to ask what a good lover is then perhaps the question has more to do with them wanting to know if *they *are good or not. For me it is about the reflection and response you get back. I give a lot to my man because he is a good lover, he gives me a huge amount not just because he loves sex but because I am a good lover, I know that. We also give each other a lot outside the bedroom because we are fulfilled in the bedroom. As stupid as it sounds I love ironing his business shirts, I stand there day dreaming about having sex with him while I iron them, when he sees his wardrobe full of clean ironed shirts I tell him that they are there bc he is an exceptional lover, yes I'm a whack job >


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> I talk to my kids about reality v's porn.


I was thinking about this. Since having kids also makes me think a lot about the kind of values I want to teach them and I am not sure if they will be able to get the 'full picture' if they stick to romance novels and stories about honourable princes etc...What if their future girlfriend decides to enjoy an occasional escapade into the land of playing a 'dirty little slvt'? Will they be overwhelmed by it or will they be able to figure it out and give her a much needed regular spanking that she might crave for now and again?? Or will they have no clue and watch her leave to another, more 'clued up' guy because of the 'proper' upbringing and closing their eyes to the real world.
It's all good and dandy to dismiss porn but unfortunately (or fortunately) life has many more sides to it than what we would _like_ it to be. I am sure there are better ways to learn this stuff but it is good to be at least aware of the diversity of sexual experiences that are portrayed through so many different kinds of pornographic material out there.
Or maybe I will just give my son a table tennis bat for his 16th birthday and hope for the best...


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> As stupid as it sounds I love ironing his business shirts, I stand there day dreaming about having sex with him while I iron them, when he sees his wardrobe full of clean ironed shirts I tell him that they are there bc he is an exceptional lover, yes I'm a whack job >


Whatever gets the ironing done, is the most important thing, I say! :wink2:
Only joking. Can I ask what age level you both are? Sex every day would be a dream for me (we are in mid thirties), it's currently every 2-3 days and I am still very happy. I notice my wife's drive is increasing with age. I haven't noticed mine slowing down yet. I can't wait for the time when our 'drives' finally meet in the middle, when the kids are a little older and we finally get some alone time to be at it like horny bunnies.


----------



## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> I personally find PIA a little overrated. At first, it feels great & tight but after a short while there's actually less 'grip' and friction for it to be as consistently enjoyable as PIV. I do like the idea of it and the fact that it's 'forbidden' but to be fair, it wasn't exactly designed for it...
> 
> As per your first para, I found the same (quicker orgasms for her through anal play). I was surprised since biologically why this should be the case, it doesn't really make a lot of sense (no nerves inside, no prostate gland either, as far as I know  and wondered if it's more of a psychological thing.
> Are there actually women who can come from PIA only? (no touching other stuff, that's cheating


There are a LOT of nerve ending back there, but just at the point of entry, not inside. Also, the full clitoral muscle does extend all the way to the anus, so that may have something to do with it.



Diana7 said:


> Anal sex can damage the anus and cause issues later on life, such as leaking etc The muscles are designed to expel waste, not take in something, they go all the wrong way for that which is why they can get damaged.


Actually, no. Studies show that permanent and/or long-term damage/injury from anal sex is very rare, and even less likely if you practice it safely (slowly and with sufficient lube). 

You're repeating scare-tactic propaganda.


----------



## uhtred

That always seemed strange to me. I'm pretty sure that oral sex is more common among gay men than is anal, but oral is considered completely normal for straight men but (receptive) anal is gay. (???)

Its fine for anyone not to want to engage in any sex act, its just a strange label. 



Keke24 said:


> My partner is one of those who felt it was gay. There's some serious homophobia in this country.
> 
> snip


----------



## uhtred

It is possible to do damage if its done incorrectly, but there are a lot of people who do it regularly without any problems. 




Diana7 said:


> Anal sex can damage the anus and cause issues later on life, such as leaking etc The muscles are designed to expel waste, not take in something, they go all the wrong way for that which is why they can get damaged.


----------



## Keke24

uhtred said:


> That always seemed strange to me. I'm pretty sure that oral sex is more common among gay men than is anal, but oral is considered completely normal for straight men but (receptive) anal is gay. (???)
> 
> Its fine for anyone not to want to engage in any sex act, its just a strange label.


It's nothing I will even attempt to understand but over here, anal is a no-no and so is men giving oral. It's been a big adjustment having to tip toe around men's egos over here. Friends (men and women) will absolutely shun their male friends if it is found out that he gives his woman oral pleasure. Of course this is considered outrageous among the more educated but no one dares speak out about it.


----------



## FeministInPink

Keke24 said:


> It's nothing I will even attempt to understand but over here, anal is a no-no and so is men giving oral. It's been a big adjustment having to tip toe around men's egos over here. Friends (men and women) will absolutely shun their male friends if it is found out that he gives his woman oral pleasure. Of course this is considered outrageous among the more educated but no one dares speak out about it.


My guy really dislikes giving oral, so that's off the table. Initially, I was disappointed, but I've found he's so good at everything else and is so focused on taking care of my needs, that it's a trade-off I'm willing to make.

On an individual scale, I get it, some guys just don't like doing it. But an entire cultural bias against it makes me sad for all the women of your country.


----------



## ConanHub

Keke24 said:


> It's nothing I will even attempt to understand but over here, anal is a no-no and so is men giving oral. It's been a big adjustment having to tip toe around men's egos over here. Friends (men and women) will absolutely shun their male friends if it is found out that he gives his woman oral pleasure. Of course this is considered outrageous among the more educated but no one dares speak out about it.


WTF!!!!????!?

I'm tempted to move there and start a sexual revolution!

What country?


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> My guy really dislikes giving oral, so that's off the table. Initially, I was disappointed, but I've found he's so good at everything else and is so focused on taking care of my needs, that it's a trade-off I'm willing to make.
> 
> On an individual scale, I get it, some guys just don't like doing it. But an entire cultural bias against it makes me sad for all the women of your country.


I will never get it.

I have never been turned down for getting some south in my mouth!

I can't picture sex without it!


----------



## FeministInPink

ConanHub said:


> I will never get it.
> 
> I have never been turned down for getting some south in my mouth!
> 
> I can't picture sex without it!


I have dated other guys who didn't like giving oral. I don't get it, either. Those other guys weren't worth not having oral as part of the repertoire.

My guy has some interesting hang-ups/things. I'm sure there's a reason behind this, he just hasn't told me what it is yet. He LOVES getting it, but he will NOT give it.


----------



## Keke24

FeministInPink said:


> My guy really dislikes giving oral, so that's off the table. Initially, I was disappointed, but I've found he's so good at everything else and is so focused on taking care of my needs, that it's a trade-off I'm willing to make.
> 
> On an individual scale, I get it, some guys just don't like doing it. But an entire cultural bias against it makes me sad for all the women of your country.


I do feel very sad for the women, particularly the ones who've been brainwashed into accepting the bias.

I also feel sad for my bf. He hasn't said it explicitly but I have to be very cautious not to let anything slip about his growing interest in giving me oral and trying anal when we're around his friends. It's difficult because sexual stuff almost always comes up in one way or another.


----------



## ConanHub

FeministInPink said:


> I have dated other guys who didn't like giving oral. I don't get it, either. Those other guys weren't worth not having oral as part of the repertoire.
> 
> My guy has some interesting hang-ups/things. I'm sure there's a reason behind this, he just hasn't told me what it is yet. He LOVES getting it, but he will NOT give it.


Well cheers 🍻 and here's to him overcoming!

Definitely glad he's good for you otherwise and ways!:grin2:


----------



## Keke24

ConanHub said:


> WTF!!!!????!?
> 
> I'm tempted to move there and start a sexual revolution!
> 
> What country?


Lmao Jamaica. I'd love to see you try lol they're crazy over here


----------



## ConanHub

Keke24 said:


> Lmao Jamaica. I'd love to see you try lol they're crazy over here


WOW! Would not have guessed!

I have a friend who is from there.

Now I'm almost curious to ask him about it but we aren't that close yet.


----------



## 269370

ConanHub said:


> WTF!!!!????!?
> 
> I'm tempted to move there and start a sexual revolution!
> 
> What country?


Be careful. The last guy who attempted to 'fight' for the right causes lost his jaw within the first hour on the battle field. You'll need one made out of steel. Godspeed 
----
Yes that would be a deal breaker for me. (If wife wouldn't let me go diving). I need to do it for purely selfish reasons on a regular basis. But it's different for different couples. There are perhaps many women who suffer from c*ckaphobia.


----------



## Keke24

ConanHub said:


> WOW! Would not have guessed!
> 
> I have a friend who is from there.
> 
> Now I'm almost curious to ask him about it but we aren't that close yet.


He is actually from Jamaica? Oh boy, I'd love to hear what he has to say. It is so ingrained in the culture. I've had a hard time just trying to get my bf to understand that his opinions on sex are based primarily on his culture as opposed to independent thought.


----------



## ConanHub

Keke24 said:


> He is actually from Jamaica? Oh boy, I'd love to hear what he has to say. It is so ingrained in the culture. I've had a hard time just trying to get my bf to understand that his opinions on sex are based primarily on his culture as opposed to independent thought.


Yes and he is a very intelligent and sensitive, soft spoken man.

He really likes Tyler Perry movies and is married to a firecracker of a woman!


----------



## Ursula

Huh, neither H or I do the oral thing. I personally hate doing it, but will do it to please my man from time to time. It depends though, with the right person it can be kind of nice. H doesn't know what he's doing down there, so when he's given it in the past, I've found that it does nothing for me, so we've just stopped oral completely. He absolutely refuses to give anal, even with my encouragement (I'm a rare woman who genuinely loves it).


----------



## Diana7

FeministInPink said:


> There are a LOT of nerve ending back there, but just at the point of entry, not inside. Also, the full clitoral muscle does extend all the way to the anus, so that may have something to do with it.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, no. Studies show that permanent and/or long-term damage/injury from anal sex is very rare, and even less likely if you practice it safely (slowly and with sufficient lube).
> 
> You're repeating scare-tactic propaganda.



Not at all, it happens but isn't talked about much. The anus just isnt designed for anything to be inserted. Its damages the muscles.


----------



## uhtred

That's really interesting (and unfortunate). I'd never heard of a cultural bias against men giving oral. 

OTOH, how could anyone find out if someone does it - other than their partner I mean. Its not the sort of thing I would ever talk about except anonymously. 




Keke24 said:


> It's nothing I will even attempt to understand but over here, anal is a no-no and so is men giving oral. It's been a big adjustment having to tip toe around men's egos over here. Friends (men and women) will absolutely shun their male friends if it is found out that he gives his woman oral pleasure. Of course this is considered outrageous among the more educated but no one dares speak out about it.


----------



## Changeseeker1

If you research anal/rectal cancer it does I fact warn that a lot of anal sex, especially with multiple partners, can increase the risks of cancer developing. That's all I need to know. Mine is an exit only. When my partner let's me put something in his backside, I'll consider it. (Which is not going to happen.)

Sent from my HUAWEI Y360-U31 using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink

Diana7 said:


> Not at all, it happens but isn't talked about much. The anus just isnt designed for anything to be inserted. Its damages the muscles.


I didn't say it doesn't happen, I said it's rare. The same way that there are risks associated with everyday living.

Is there a risk of dying in a fiery crash if I get on a plane to travel to a foreign country? Yes, it happens. It has happened to some people. But the risk of it happening is still very small.

People have been having back-door sex since the beginning of history. Literally. The ancient Greeks loved that sh!t. (Ha!) If there were serious, grave, health risks that definitely happen to everyone who does it, everyone would say, "Dude, don't do it, you'll get anal prolapse!"

The risk is very small when it's done correctly. You're blowing the risk way out of proportion.


----------



## FeministInPink

Changeseeker1 said:


> If you research anal/rectal cancer it does I fact warn that a lot of anal sex, especially with multiple partners, can increase the risks of cancer developing. That's all I need to know. Mine is an exit only. When my partner let's me put something in his backside, I'll consider it. (Which is not going to happen.)
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI Y360-U31 using Tapatalk


This is specifically because the risk of contracting HPV is higher. If you've had the vaccine or your number of partners are low, then you reduce your risk. It's not risky because it's anal, it's risky because it's yet another way to contract HPV.


----------



## ConanHub

Mrs. Conan is not interested in anal and I have never been curious.

If my partner wanted me to, I would give it a go though and if they liked it, I would do it occasionally.

Carefully of course! LOL!

Can't really say it's my cup of tea.


----------



## 269370

ConanHub said:


> Mrs. Conan is not interested in anal and I have never been curious.
> 
> 
> 
> If my partner wanted me to, I would give it a go though and if they liked it, I would do it occasionally.
> 
> 
> 
> Carefully of course! LOL!
> 
> 
> 
> Can't really say it's my cup of tea.




Don't think of it as a cup of tea. It's more like sticky toffee pudding..
Actually it can be done in a perfectly clean, hygienic and safe way. With a few simple precautions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Keke24

Diana7 said:


> Not at all, it happens but isn't talked about much. The anus just isnt designed for anything to be inserted. Its damages the muscles.


You sound very convinced. Are you speaking from experience? What happened?


----------



## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> There are a LOT of nerve ending back there, but just at the point of entry, not inside. Also, the full clitoral muscle does extend all the way to the anus, so that may have something to do with it.


Whoa, I didn't know that. So the legends are true...(that the clitoris is like the Pando tree: with the largest underground root system).

Btw I noticed that my wife can have two separate orgasms in relatively quick succession. It's usually from oral the first time and then from PIV the second time. However I don't think she can have a second one from oral (as it then feels too sensitive). I never quite understood: are the g spot and clit totally independent from each other or somehow connected? She doesn't seem to like having two sensations at the same time (she prefers to focus on one at a time).

Orgasm from PIV didn't use to be possible before we had kids for some reason (or maybe becuase she was younger: I am not sure). However nowadays it seems fairly straightforward. Orgasm from oral requires a little more 'mind' games and getting her into the zone.

I realise it's probably different for every woman but I was wondering whether it was deliberately 'designed' that way by evolution (to come from two separate places) to maximise pleasure, in case males were too quick or 'missed' the aim or something else. Seems kind of unfair  (2 pleasures vs 1 for males).


----------



## 269370

Ursula said:


> Huh, neither H or I do the oral thing. I personally hate doing it, but will do it to please my man from time to time. It depends though, with the right person it can be kind of nice. H doesn't know what he's doing down there, so when he's given it in the past, I've found that it does nothing for me, so we've just stopped oral completely.


I can understand that. If someone decided to write a manual on how to perform oral properly, the literature would be the size of War & Peace. It can be very confusing down there...

I have been with my wife since we were 15-16 so neither of us knew what the hell we were doing but we had lots of time and little inhibitions to try and not feel too self-conscious when messing up.
We hardly had PIV in the first 10 years of our relationship actually (it was mostly oral because orgasms from PIV alone were rare).

I would say that clitoral/oral orgasms are more psychological: it seems to happen more often when I get her in the right zone either through role play, dirty talk or games. While the g spot O/PIV is more mechanical (one just has to be relatively steady/rhythmical and build it up properly).
But everyone's mileage will differ I am sure. Oral somehow always felt more intimate, 'up close and personal'. Though I couldn't chose one over the other: it has to be both (not necessarily in one session).
But I am told while both ways can result in very strong orgasms, they do differ apparently (I think the g spot O can last longer, if I am not mistaken, while oral O is more similar to the male orgasm: a strong but quick burst).

Does this sound about right?


----------



## ConanHub

I read War and Peace I'm very talented at oral.

Correlation? 😉😁


----------



## 269370

alexm said:


> I couldn't look people in the eyes, either, until I was in my early 20's. For me, it was a confidence thing. Not that I had NONE, just that I felt overly conscious about it.
> 
> I was like that until somebody pointed it out to me, and I decided then and there that I'd make the effort to change, and I did.
> 
> A good trick that somebody told me is to look at the space between somebody's eyes when you're talking to them. This avoids your own eyes going back and forth, or making you look c0ck-eyed.
> 
> It was surprisingly easy to do, and I noticed very quickly that people were more comfortable with me in general, not just in speaking with me. Now I TOTALLY notice when somebody doesn't look me in the eyes when speaking, and I find it terribly awkward.
> 
> I also had a very limp handshake (which, as a man, is noticeable). At the same time, I made the effort to give a firm handshake, and the difference it made was noticeable, as well. It commands a certain respect, both things, and people tend to react accordingly. Just don't over-do either. As a smaller man (I'm 5'7"), you're already at a certain disadvantage before you even open your mouth, meaning that most people have already started to judge you. Small, quiet and shy = weak. Small, loud and brash = over-compensating. The trick is to balance every thing.
> 
> The worst, though, is the people who look you up and down while speaking to you. Hate that. And those that try to rip your arm off when they shake your hand.


I forgot to say that these tips are actually very helpful. I will try looking in the space between the eyes: just worry it might make me look kinda cross-eyed in the process...I dunno what it is about looking people in the eyes; maybe I worry I might exchange 'souls' with them. I tend to always look away when I talk to someone which must be irritating for the other person.


----------



## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> Whoa, I didn't know that. So the legends are true...(that the clitoris is like the Pando tree: with the largest underground root system).
> 
> Btw I noticed that my wife can have two separate orgasms in relatively quick succession. It's usually from oral the first time and then from PIV the second time. However I don't think she can have a second one from oral (as it then feels too sensitive). I never quite understood: are the g spot and clit totally independent from each other or somehow connected? She doesn't seem to like having two sensations at the same time (she prefers to focus on one at a time).
> 
> Orgasm from PIV didn't use to be possible before we had kids for some reason (or maybe becuase she was younger: I am not sure). However nowadays it seems fairly straightforward. Orgasm from oral requires a little more 'mind' games and getting her into the zone.
> 
> I realise it's probably different for every woman but I was wondering whether it was deliberately 'designed' that way by evolution (to come from two separate places) to maximise pleasure, in case males were too quick or 'missed' the aim or something else. Seems kind of unfair  (2 pleasures vs 1 for males).


Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy. The g-spot and the clit are connected... actually, the g-spot is _part_ of the clitoral muscle/system.

Here is a great video that shows the structure of the clitoral muscle/system. What we typically think of as the clitoris is really just the tip of the iceberg! (Don't worry, it's not graphic, it's illustrative.) (And I'm sorry it's so big on the screen. I don't know how to make it smaller.)






If you want a more detailed, written explanation, go here.

We really didn't understand the full extent of the clitoral muscle system until the 21st century, because the study of anatomy up until recent years was always focused on male anatomy; the female anatomy was largely ignored by science and the medical community.

While technically the anus and rectum isn't directly connected to the clitoral system, the vaginal wall and the rectum are right next to one another... there isn't anything between them except some of this clitoral muscle. So, if you stimulate the rectal area when a woman is already aroused, that clitoral muscle is gonna feel it.


----------



## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> I forgot to say that these tips are actually very helpful. I will try looking in the space between the eyes: just worry it might make me look kinda cross-eyed in the process...I dunno what it is about looking people in the eyes; maybe I worry I might exchange 'souls' with them. I tend to always look away when I talk to someone which must be irritating for the other person.


I have found that I look people in the eye too much, and it makes me come across as really intense (or so I've been told). So I've had to train myself to occasionally look away.


----------



## FeministInPink

inmyprime said:


> I can understand that. *If someone decided to write a manual on how to perform oral properly*, the literature would be the size of War & Peace. It can be very confusing down there...
> 
> I have been with my wife since we were 15-16 so neither of us knew what the hell we were doing but we had lots of time and little inhibitions to try and not feel too self-conscious when messing up.
> We hardly had PIV in the first 10 years of our relationship actually (it was mostly oral because orgasms from PIV alone were rare).
> 
> I would say that clitoral/oral orgasms are more psychological: it seems to happen more often when I get her in the right zone either through role play, dirty talk or games. While the g spot O/PIV is more mechanical (one just has to be relatively steady/rhythmical and build it up properly).
> But everyone's mileage will differ I am sure. Oral somehow always felt more intimate, 'up close and personal'. Though I couldn't chose one over the other: it has to be both (not necessarily in one session).
> But I am told while both ways can result in very strong orgasms, they do differ apparently (I think the g spot O can last longer, if I am not mistaken, while oral O is more similar to the male orgasm: a strong but quick burst).
> 
> Does this sound about right?


Here you go: How to Eat Pu$$y


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> Not Porn again...While I agree that one shouldn't base ones expectations on what's on screen (that applies to Hollywood movies too) and be humble and not closed minded as a person in general, you might be surprised what some women are actually into (even here on TAM; perhaps worth it going back a few posts?). There is a sense of 'controlled' degradation and full submission that some enjoy with their partner (where 100% of trust is needed). This doesn't mean that this kind of treatment (some call it 'disrespect') is ever taken outside of bedroom, just that love finds many ways to express itself. Plus not all porn is 'mindless pounding' and I prefer not to use blanket generalisations (I know it is popular to do otherwise but I will keep trying). Just like there are rubbish H movies there are also plenty of rubbish porn movies (possibly more so, since guys are not necessarily always need to be that discernible in order to achieve an O).


Huh? I am a very open minded person.
We have porn in our lives.

Do you have teens that are or soon to be sexually active?
I have 5 of them (teens to young adults) and for us it is super important that they have a grip on reality. I have no major issue with porn but it is not reality and while adults can rationalise that, it is different for young kids who are just becoming sexually active.
My ex husband had some serious issues with sex and communication, it is my responsibility as a parent to impart some wisdom and guidance on my kids. I have never said to them that porn is bad but I have said to keep it all in balance and know that most of it is faking and acting.

I am not anti porn but I think it is careless to just accept something that is actually quite a powerful medium without considering the comsequences. A recent survey in Aussie showed that the majority of young people compare their genitalia to what they see in porn and it is causing mental health issues for some and many do not have the capacity or experience to understand the non reality of it all.
Just like many females compare themselves to fashion models that are unnaturally skinny, causing all sorts of eating issues.

You are surely on a bandwagon here, perhaps you should not be so closed minded yourself. People can have a healthy view of porn but still be aware of the issues around it. And there are issues with porn no matter how much you wish to say there aren't.


----------



## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> Yeah, that's a pretty good analogy. The g-spot and the clit are connected... actually, the g-spot is _part_ of the clitoral muscle/system.
> 
> Here is a great video that shows the structure of the clitoral muscle/system. What we typically think of as the clitoris is really just the tip of the iceberg! (Don't worry, it's not graphic, it's illustrative.) (And I'm sorry it's so big on the screen. I don't know how to make it smaller.)
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIbbZ37A7RQ
> 
> If you want a more detailed, written explanation, go here.
> 
> We really didn't understand the full extent of the clitoral muscle system until the 21st century, because the study of anatomy up until recent years was always focused on male anatomy; the female anatomy was largely ignored by science and the medical community.
> 
> While technically the anus and rectum isn't directly connected to the clitoral system, the vaginal wall and the rectum are right next to one another... there isn't anything between them except some of this clitoral muscle. So, if you stimulate the rectal area when a woman is already aroused, that clitoral muscle is gonna feel it.


Yes, that is pretty amazing. (Though she could have done a better job at 'colouring it in'  
(I spend too much time with my kids).

I will do some proper 'studying' tomorrow on wife  Thanks for the link.


----------



## MrsHolland

Ursula said:


> Holy ****, I'm officially jealous. Sex lives like this actually EXIST?!? I've had some pretty fantastic partners in the past, but can barely remember what that was like, and of course, I wasn't married to any of them. Jesus Murphy, mind blown.


My first husband was a dud in bed, 3/10. Took me a long time as he was good at everything else but I eventually sacked his sorry arse and moved on.


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> I was thinking about this. Since having kids also makes me think a lot about the kind of values I want to teach them and I am not sure if they will be able to get the 'full picture' if they stick to romance novels and stories about honourable princes etc...What if their future girlfriend decides to enjoy an occasional escapade into the land of playing a 'dirty little slvt'? Will they be overwhelmed by it or will they be able to figure it out and give her a much needed regular spanking that she might crave for now and again?? Or will they have no clue and watch her leave to another, more 'clued up' guy because of the 'proper' upbringing and closing their eyes to the real world.
> It's all good and dandy to dismiss porn but unfortunately (or fortunately) life has many more sides to it than what we would _like_ it to be. I am sure there are better ways to learn this stuff but it is good to be at least aware of the diversity of sexual experiences that are portrayed through so many different kinds of pornographic material out there.
> Or maybe I will just give my son a table tennis bat for his 16th birthday and hope for the best...


I think you completely missed what I was saying. I never said porn is bad, what I said was porn is not reality, not sure what is so confronting about that statement.

I have never read a romance novel in my life, I loathe Hollywood movies. 

I am very happy and confident in my parenting and discussing the non reality of porn with them sits well with me. There are plenty of people that get their education via porn and that is not a mentally healthy place to be. I want my kids to have good, solid self esteem and confidence. I have never and would never tell them not to watch porn. 

Not sure why you keep saying I am dismissing porn or anti porn????? Seems odd that you have so much invested in your POV on this topic, call others closed minded yet you are the one that seems to be very narrow minded yourself.


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> Whatever gets the ironing done, is the most important thing, I say! :wink2:
> Only joking. Can I ask what age level you both are? Sex every day would be a dream for me (we are in mid thirties), it's currently every 2-3 days and I am still very happy. I notice my wife's drive is increasing with age. I haven't noticed mine slowing down yet. I can't wait for the time when our 'drives' finally meet in the middle, when the kids are a little older and we finally get some alone time to be at it like horny bunnies.


I am 50 and post menopausal, he is 56. We both had previous marriages that were sexless plus other issues. We just happen to connect really well inside and outside of the bedroom, we have matching drives and matching styles of sex. 

He is lucky he is so good at what he does, it counter balances the times I want to kill him >


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> Huh? I am a very open minded person.
> We have porn in our lives.
> 
> Do you have teens that are or soon to be sexually active?
> I have 5 of them (teens to young adults) and for us it is super important that they have a grip on reality. I have no major issue with porn but it is not reality and while adults can rationalise that, it is different for young kids who are just becoming sexually active.
> My ex husband had some serious issues with sex and communication, it is my responsibility as a parent to impart some wisdom and guidance on my kids. I have never said to them that porn is bad but I have said to keep it all in balance and know that most of it is faking and acting.


When you put it like this, I don't really disagree with it. I am sure every rational person knows that porn is not 'real" in the sense that people are acting things out.

I was specifically responding to this bit:

"I am just glad I entered my sexual years pre internet porn and know that what is portrayed on screen is not how it is in real life"

My experience was the opposite. The more my sex life progressed (and that of my close friends who shared their experiences with me), the more I was amazed that many women get highly aroused not from what I conventionally though would be the case (romantic & sensual, vanilla sex etc), but how much kink they often bring into the bedroom (as can be clearly seen from this thread). It often even eclipses the 'imagination' of porn writers.
I think I might be talking at cross-purposes: I am not discussing whether the actors in porn movies are _real _or not or whether they feel the things they are doing (I thought it was a given that everyone understands what 'acting' means. Art is also just a representation of reality. It is not reality itself which doesn't automatically invalidate what art is trying to convey).

I am simply saying when I observe what's being said by women with regards to what turns them on in real life and then compare it to what's often portrayed in porn, the two are really not that dissimilar (and in fact in many instances very similar) and denying the two have nothing to do with each other can simply appear hypocritical on the face of it. I seem to not be able to express myself properly (I never said you or anyone was closed minded: what said was that i _agree_ with you that one _shouldn't_ be closed minded in general) and I can't really see which bandwagon I am supposed to be jumping on since I am currently the only person on that wagon as far as I am aware.

The body image issue is again a separate issue. i don't want to mix all the different things in this discussion because it will continue to obfuscate things. I did say earlier that I think regular advertisement industry does much more harm in this department with its photoshopped bodies (one of the most preferred categories for men seems to be 'amateur porn' where body image is very much secondary).


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> I think you completely missed what I was saying. I never said porn is bad, what I said was porn is not reality, not sure what is so confronting about that statement.
> 
> I have never read a romance novel in my life, I loathe Hollywood movies.
> 
> I am very happy and confident in my parenting and discussing the non reality of porn with them sits well with me. There are plenty of people that get their education via porn and that is not a mentally healthy place to be. I want my kids to have good, solid self esteem and confidence. I have never and would never tell them not to watch porn.
> 
> Not sure why you keep saying I am dismissing porn or anti porn????? Seems odd that you have so much invested in your POV on this topic, call others closed minded yet you are the one that seems to be very narrow minded yourself.


I didn't call you closed minded. Look, this is what I said precisely: "*While I agree* that one shouldn't base ones expectations on what's on screen (that applies to Hollywood movies too) and be humble and not closed minded as a person in general," 

I said that I agreed with you that one shouldn't be closed minded. I am not sure how it happens when people latch on to single words without the context of a whole sentence.

Anyway, I agree that I probably misunderstood what you meant by porn vs reality. I don't know anyone who thinks porn is akin to a 'documentary' (aka real people doing real things, rather than acting) but since you meant it this way, I will presume that there might be people who indeed can't tell this difference. I was not referring to those people. I meant that what's being _portrayed_ is not that unrealistic, given the huge diversity in sexual preferences. I hope this distinction is clear?


----------



## 269370

MrsHolland said:


> I am 50 and post menopausal, he is 56. We both had previous marriages that were sexless plus other issues. We just happen to connect really well inside and outside of the bedroom, we have matching drives and matching styles of sex.
> 
> He is lucky he is so good at what he does, it counter balances the times I want to kill him >


I am so happy to hear that sex doesn't slow down after meno pause. This is the next thing I was dreading and haven't really started preparing myself for yet.
I read somewhere that hormone levels after menopause are supposed to be similar to when the woman is breastfeeding (that's the time when our sex life was practically 0 and when porn saved the day for me. Otherwise I am pretty sure I would have lost my mind.)


----------



## MrsHolland

inmyprime said:


> I am so happy to hear that sex doesn't slow down after meno pause. This is the next thing I was dreading and haven't really started preparing myself for yet.
> I read somewhere that hormone levels after menopause are supposed to be similar to when the woman is breastfeeding (that's the time when our sex life was practically 0 and when porn saved the day for me. Otherwise I am pretty sure I would have lost my mind.)


If you both want to start preparing for sex life after menopause then this is what worked for me.... I am a vegetarian and have been my whole adult life, turns out that there are some foods that many veggos consume in quantities that help with menopause. Tofu, seeds, nuts etc. Having a good diet has really helped at this stage of my life, menopause was quite easy for me. Too late to improve the diet as menopause hits, it needs to be a life long lifestyle. 

Next part is that he is a great guy and I desire him. Be the man your wife desires and your sex life won't change.

We do not use lube (except for anal of course) and again I am sure that is due to my good diet. 

We plan on having sex for a long time yet :smile2:


----------



## WorkingWife

Diana7 said:


> ...Someone mentioned they liked 'mild choking' . I cant think of anything worse...


Yeah that one made me do a double-take too. That would freak me the hell out and would in NO way be a turn on. I love a confident masculine man - but no serial killer fantasies here...


----------



## Diana7

Changeseeker1 said:


> If you research anal/rectal cancer it does I fact warn that a lot of anal sex, especially with multiple partners, can increase the risks of cancer developing. That's all I need to know. Mine is an exit only. When my partner let's me put something in his backside, I'll consider it. (Which is not going to happen.)
> 
> Sent from my HUAWEI Y360-U31 using Tapatalk


 LOL that made me laugh. :laugh:
For us anal sex is a no no, having had small pessaries inserted at various times in hospital, I know that it hurt, and was so uncomfortable and that was SMALL. 
I dont see the point when we have a vagina that is specifically designed for the penis and good and enjoyable sex. I think that widespread porn use has caused more people to think of anal sex. 
As my husband says, 'why would I want poo all over me?' Quite agree.


----------



## Diana7

WorkingWife said:


> Yeah that one made me do a double-take too. That would freak me the hell out and would in NO way be a turn on. I love a confident masculine man - but no serial killer fantasies here...


 Another issue with that is if the couple broke up, if she was angry/vengeful, she could go to the police and claim he was violent with her and tried to choke her many times. Good luck to him trying to claim it was in sex and that she enjoyed it.:surprise:

If I was with a man who wanted to do this I would run a mile never to look back. I couldn't have any respect for a violent man.


----------



## Diana7

MrsHolland said:


> If you both want to start preparing for sex life after menopause then this is what worked for me.... I am a vegetarian and have been my whole adult life, turns out that there are some foods that many veggos consume in quantities that help with menopause. Tofu, seeds, nuts etc. Having a good diet has really helped at this stage of my life, menopause was quite easy for me. Too late to improve the diet as menopause hits, it needs to be a life long lifestyle.
> 
> Next part is that he is a great guy and I desire him. Be the man your wife desires and your sex life won't change.
> 
> We do not use lube (except for anal of course) and again I am sure that is due to my good diet.
> 
> We plan on having sex for a long time yet :smile2:


You are very fortunate, some women suffer terribly in the menopause.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> LOL that made me laugh. :laugh:
> For us anal sex is a no no, having had small pessaries inserted at various times in hospital, I know that it hurt, and was so uncomfortable and that was SMALL.
> I dont see the point when we have a vagina that is specifically designed for the penis and good and enjoyable sex. I think that widespread porn use has caused more people to think of anal sex.
> As my husband says, 'why would I want poo all over me?' Quite agree.


I'm going to compile a list for all the hilarious things that porn gets a blame on  Porn is the witch of the modern day, blamed for all of women's insecurities. It's obviously the other way around: anal sex exists in porn because there is high demand for people wanting to watch it (probably because the wife won't let them do it - which is fair enough).

The reason people like anal is that it provides a different sensation. It is not painful if you take time to get the area warmed up & prepared. It's also not messy, usually. And the easiest thing to make sure it's not messy is to use a small enema or douche beforehand.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> Another issue with that is if the couple broke up, if she was angry/vengeful, she could go to the police and claim he was violent with her and tried to choke her many times. Good luck to him trying to claim it was in sex and that she enjoyed it.:surprise:
> 
> If I was with a man who wanted to do this I would run a mile never to look back. I couldn't have any respect for a violent man.


Actually...most of the time it's the woman who is 'thrilled' by the idea that her lover not only has full control over her sexual pleasure but also, potentially, over her life, in that orgasmic moment. The French call the orgasm a "small death". Imagine the amount of trust that goes into this if the woman was still to enjoy it. I'm sure @Keke24 has a better take on it. 

I have never tried actually choking anyone but I noticed many times that whenever I placed my hand on my wife's neck (first time was by chance, in the spare of the moment during sex) and hold it relatively tightly, she squeals from pleasure. Same if I cover her face with my palm so that she can hardly breathe (the second time, it wasn't ME who put the hand there...).

It's really difficult to please you women. The balance between a 'great lover' and 'running away from serial killer' seems a tight one to master :| The demand for adventure and pushing the boundaries is definitely not imagined by us males (nor spread like infection from porn). It's a real thing.


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> You are very fortunate, some women suffer terribly in the menopause.


Can I ask more about it? What normally happens?


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> I'm going to compile a list for all the hilarious things that porn gets a blame on  Porn is the witch of the modern day, blamed for all of women's insecurities. It's obviously the other way around: anal sex exists in porn because there is high demand for people wanting to watch it (probably because the wife won't let them do it - which is fair enough).
> 
> The reason people like anal is that it provides a different sensation. It is not painful if you take time to get the area warmed up & prepared. It's also not messy, usually. And the easiest thing to make sure it's not messy is to use a small enema or douche beforehand.


You are very naive if you think that porn isnt responsible for many evils and marriage break ups today.

I am very thankful that my husband is as averse to anal sex as I am.


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Can I ask more about it? What normally happens?


Often heavy and irregular bleeding, terrible hot flushes, depression, mood swings, lethargy and tiredness, memory loss, loss of libido, dry vagina, skin and hair loosing condition etc.


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## Diana7

inmyprime said:


> Actually...most of the time it's the woman who is 'thrilled' by the idea that her lover not only has full control over her sexual pleasure but also, potentially, over her life, in that orgasmic moment. The French call the orgasm a "small death". Imagine the amount of trust that goes into this if the woman was still to enjoy it. I'm sure @Keke24 has a better take on it.
> 
> I have never tried actually choking anyone but I noticed many times that whenever I placed my hand on my wife's neck (first time was by chance, in the spare of the moment during sex) and hold it relatively tightly, she squeals from pleasure. Same if I cover her face with my palm so that she can hardly breathe (the second time, it wasn't ME who put the hand there...).
> 
> It's really difficult to please you women. The balance between a 'great lover' and 'running away from serial killer' seems a tight one to master :| The demand for adventure and pushing the boundaries is definitely not imagined by us males (nor spread like infection from porn). It's a real thing.


Well women are all different just as men are. The secret is to be with a woman who you know and love and work together to create a good sex life.What does it matter what other women want? 

I wouldn't enjoy sex with a man who I didn't love and who didn't love me. Nor one who wasnt prepared to commit. Nor one who was violent, nor one who looked at porn, nor one who had had many partners before me and saw sex as some sort of casual arrangement. 
I find a man of integrity and faithfulness and good moral values so attractive and appealing. I love and want to please him more because of the way he treats me and his respect for women generally.Because I know that sex is us and us alone.


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## arbitrator

*I would think that the consummate lover is one who foremostly and unselfishly places the focus on their partners sexual desires and pleasure, all in the heat of the moment, and can conversely become their partners equal sexual focus when it's time to do so!*


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## 269370

Diana7 said:


> You are very naive if you think that porn isnt responsible for many evils and marriage break ups today.
> 
> I am very thankful that my husband is as averse to anal sex as I am.


I didn't say it is _never_ responsible. But in many cases, porn is as responsible for a break up of the marriage as a surgeon is responsible for the death of an already critically ill patient.
I don't think it's naive to think that the ultimate truth is usually much more complicated than a simple 'porn is evil' attitude.
But I think I made this point way too many times.


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## uhtred

The trick is to please a woman, not women. 

Different women (and men) like very different things so there are almost no general rules.





inmyprime said:


> snip
> It's really difficult to please you women.
> snipo


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## 269370

uhtred said:


> The trick is to please a woman, not women.
> 
> 
> 
> Different women (and men) like very different things so there are almost no general rules.




Of course. This was tongue in...
cheek 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uhtred

And you really can only please one woman at a time that way......



inmyprime said:


> Of course. This was tongue in...
> cheek
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Keke24

inmyprime said:


> Actually...most of the time it's the woman who is 'thrilled' by the idea that her lover not only has full control over her sexual pleasure but also, potentially, over her life, in that orgasmic moment. The French call the orgasm a "small death". Imagine the amount of trust that goes into this if the woman was still to enjoy it. I'm sure @Keke24 has a better take on it.
> 
> I have never tried actually choking anyone but I noticed many times that whenever I placed my hand on my wife's neck (first time was by chance, in the spare of the moment during sex) and hold it relatively tightly, she squeals from pleasure. Same if I cover her face with my palm so that she can hardly breathe (the second time, it wasn't ME who put the hand there...).
> 
> It's really difficult to please you women. The balance between a 'great lover' and 'running away from serial killer' seems a tight one to master :| The demand for adventure and pushing the boundaries is definitely not imagined by us males (nor spread like infection from porn). It's a real thing.


There must be some sort of medical explanation for the pleasure associated with the restriction of oxygen through choking. It does feel very much like a high. Intensely pleasurable. It definitely requires trust between partners and explicit approval from the woman. It is just another aspect of being dominated by my man that I thoroughly enjoy.


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