# Am I being too impatient?



## Dxbguy (Mar 14, 2013)

Hi all, 

I have been a regular reader in the forums, but this is my first post.

My wife and I have been married for 12 years tomorrow after being together for 6 years prior to that through high school.

My wife is an incredible person and a real blessing to me and our 3 kids. I love her a lot!

However, my problem is this....
We were both virgins ( from very conservative backgrounds) going into marriage and enjoyed a healthy sex life for the first 6 months...all be it a very cautious sex life with little more than a bit of touching, lots of kissing and PIV. I would love to experiment and try most things, but somehow can't bring myself to address it with her out of respect... I know she is incredibly shy talking about sex at all.
Added to this, we have sex about twice a month. I seriously could do it most days of the week. I am very HD and this is incredibly frustrating.
Oral has only happened to me about 3 times and I am stopped every time I try on her. I am also not allowed near Her boobs...apparently they belong to the kids now. As for the patio ate kissing we used to have.....well those left some years ago.

We have got 3 kids under the age of 5, but this was a issue before the kids came.

Our married lives are perfect otherwise, we have an awesome family life and respect for each other....I don't want this to change.

How do I best approach her on this topic? Anyone been in the same shoes?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Dxbguy said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have been a regular reader in the forums, but this is my first post.
> 
> ...


My wife and I have been married 47 years. We have sex about 2 times a week......I too would enjoy every day, but am happy with what I have....

You are being waaaay too patient...The issue about her breasts is ridiculous....She is your wife, and her body is yours to enjoy....

False modesty is getting in the way of the two of you having a truly fulfilling sex life....Don't ask "may I", just do it...Gentle but insistent persuasion is the key....Dont demand new or different sexual activities, just lovingly but insistently do them...


As for oral on her, I think her being shy means if you ASK may I lick tour vagina? she will always say no....It is easier to apologise than ask permission....begin by giving her a long sensual massage, being sure to touch all parts of her body...When she is relaxed and aroused, gently begin performing oral on her....Start by kissing her belly. and thighs and assuring her it is giving you a great deal of pleasure, and want her to enjoy it also....It may take a few tries to get her to thoroughly get into it, but eventually she will....The key to adding new things to your sex life is to begin them with her being relaxed and aroused....:smthumbup:

good luck
The woodchuck


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## IsGirl3 (Nov 13, 2012)

I was shy expressing myself to try new positions with my husband, but I bought a book on positions and we looked through it one night and we tried a few. Or what if you just bought a book with different techniques and said you'd like to try some. I found that reading from a book out loud was easier than coming up with the words on my own.

Or you have to do what woodchuck says and just do it, or build up the courage and spit it out.

That is ridiculous about her boobs belonging to the kids. Gee, she really doesn't give you much to work with. If you touch them, she'll shoo you away?

Are you saying if you initiate more, she will outright say, "not tonight?"


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## Dxbguy (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks for the input, some great ideas I will start with right away.
Unfortunately yes, she will take my hands off her breasts if I touch them. I am not even talking about nipples. The last time I got near those were 5 years ago!
She has also never laid back with her legs spread for me to gently caress her and touch her....always a bit of an effort. Clit is ok, but no fingers going in anywhere.
Funny thing is I ensure she orgasms every time...or at least 9 out of 10 times.

Love the idea of just going for it, and the book suggestion will also take some of the pressure out if the discussion.....trying both those suggestions.

Anniversary night tomorrow, hope its a good night!


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Dxbguy said:


> Unfortunately yes, she will take my hands off her breasts if I touch them. I am not even talking about nipples. The last time I got near those were 5 years ago!


You need to get to the bottom of that and ask her directly why.

You are claiming she is the one who is so reserved and shy about sex, but this indicates to me that you are as well. A man who is confident and assured is going to ask about this the first time he encounters it. "What's up hon, you don't like me touching these beautiful breasts of yours?" Lighthearted and fun, not accusatory and angry.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Just a thought here, since you've got little ones.. I HATE always have always will, having my breasts pulled downward. H used to do that. Stupid me I did not explain, don't pull down every thing else if fine though. So, for a long time he thought they were off the menu. 

Yes, please talk, yes keep bringing it up. Yes, tell her you really want to.... Yes, keep bringing it up.

Hey Woodchuck, welcome back!


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## I Notice The Details (Sep 15, 2012)

Dxbguy said:


> ...Unfortunately yes, she will take my hands off her breasts if I touch them. I am not even talking about nipples. The last time I got near those were 5 years ago!
> She has also never laid back with her legs spread for me to gently caress her and touch her....always a bit of an effort.


Both of these things seem very odd to me. You said you were both virgins when you got married. Does she think deep down that sex is bad? I wonder if her upbringing (Mom or Dad) taught her that letting a boy touch her breasts in JR High or High School was a terrible thing. There must be some negative association made here in the past...

My wife came from a very religious family....as did I. She thought that many aspects involving sex were bad, and that "good girls" don't relax and enjoy themselves. I know her Mom taught her this. Her Mom would actually turn off a TV show if there were a man and woman kissing on screen. Unbelievable. It took years to overcome this and get her to relax and enjoy her body....but it is possible. A little wine now and then helps too 

Good luck and let us know how you progress.


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> You are being waaaay too patient...The issue about her breasts is ridiculous....She is your wife, and* her body is yours to enjoy....*
> 
> False modesty is getting in the way of the two of you having a truly fulfilling sex life....*Don't ask "may I", just do i*t...Gentle but insistent persuasion is the key....Dont demand new or different sexual activities, *just lovingly but insistently do them...
> *



I cannot even fully express how much I disagree with this advice. DO NOT do anything to your wife that she has asked you not to do. Her body is NOT "yours to enjoy" (WTF???)
It's her body and if there are things she doesn't like you doing to it, you had better stand down. I can tell you with 100% certainty that all holy hell would break loose if my DH did something intimate to me that I'd told him not to do. 

If there are issues that need to be addressed, do it OUTSIDE the bedroom, in a neutral area. When she is calm and relaxed. Be gentle, non accusatory. You don't know what her reasoning is so don't pretend that you do, or that you know what's best. State your case and discuss what sort of compromise can be agreed upon. 

Do not "just do it". She is your wife, not a prostitute that you bought and paid for.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> I cannot even fully express how much I disagree with this advice. DO NOT do anything to your wife that she has asked you not to do. Her body is NOT "yours to enjoy" (WTF???)
> It's her body and if there are things she doesn't like you doing to it, you had better stand down. I can tell you with 100% certainty that all holy hell would break loose if my DH did something intimate to me that I'd told him not to do.
> 
> If there are issues that need to be addressed, do it OUTSIDE the bedroom, in a neutral area. When she is calm and relaxed. Be gentle, non accusatory. You don't know what her reasoning is so don't pretend that you do, or that you know what's best. State your case and discuss what sort of compromise can be agreed upon.
> ...


Believe me, I am the last one to go all religous on anyone, but marriage is a contract that specificly includes SEXUAL CONTACT....

Making love is not a game of "Mother may I".....It is much better for both parties to be open and direct with one another....The following passages have a historical origin....

*Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 

may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be captivated by her love.

The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again.*
Every culture recognises these precepts, PC or not....


I am not making this stuff up......

Marital sex is not governed by a "Campus code of conduct" Requiring each party to ask permission of the other during the escallating step of a sexual encounter...."May I now kiss you with tongue"?

Mutual respect above all, but married couples have the right to their partners body and each partner is bound by the marriage contract.....Not by false modesty


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Obviously there is a difference between doing something that is physically unpleasurable vs. a neurosis introduced by unhealthy attitudes towards sex from authority figures.

It's the difference between "I don't like this" and "I feel guilty about this".


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Wiserforit said:


> Obviously there is a difference between doing something that is physically unpleasurable vs. a neurosis introduced by unhealthy attitudes towards sex from authority figures.
> 
> It's the difference between "I don't like this" and "I feel guilty about this".


:iagree:


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

My boobs belong to the kids. I rarely remove my bra anymore. If she's breast feeding then it's inconsiderate to be grabbing at them. I agree you two need to seriously talk but whoever is saying he should just take it needs to look up marital rape. I mean wth?!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> Believe me, I am the last one to go all religous on anyone, but marriage is a contract that specificly includes SEXUAL CONTACT....
> 
> Making love is not a game of "Mother may I".....It is much better for both parties to be open and direct with one another....The following passages have a historical origin....
> 
> ...


That is all fine and well when there is pre existing mutual consent. If a wife has given her husband carte blanche, then have at it. But if she has boundaries, don't cross them or disregard them just because she is your wife and therefore her body belongs to you and you can do whatever you want with it. Thanks be, that sh*t doesn't fly anymore. Our culture recognizes marital rape, doesn't it?


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> That is all fine and well when there is pre existing mutual consent. If a wife has given her husband carte blanche, then have at it. But if she has boundaries, don't cross them or disregard them just because she is your wife and therefore her body belongs to you and you can do whatever you want with it. Thanks be, that sh*t doesn't fly anymore. Our culture recognizes marital rape, doesn't it?


At no time did I condone rape, I only suggested that in the marriage bed, false modesty should be set aside, and provided some historical examples of the male/female marriage relationship as held in most modern cultures 

Unless you subscribe to the modern feminist view of the marriage bed as described by Dworkin:

"Intercourse is the pure, sterile, formal expression of men's contempt for women"...

Talking about $hit that don't fly

Good luck
The woodchuck


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## LadyOfTheLake (Feb 25, 2013)

Woodchuck said:


> At no time did I condone rape, I only suggested that in the marriage bed, false modesty should be set aside, and provided some historical examples of the male/female marriage relationship as held in most modern cultures
> 
> Unless you subscribe to the modern feminist view of the marriage bed as described by Dworkin:
> 
> ...



Who says anything about false modesty? I'm certain she has valid reasons for having boundaries with HER body. Anyone that truly loved her would respect that and work with her, rather than ignore them for the sake of his own pleasure. 
Many women need to compartmentalize their bodies when they are breastfeeding. They can't see their breasts as sexual when they are sharing them with children all day long. Breastfeeding triggers the release of oxytocin, the bonding hormone that is also released during orgasm. Some women also feel physical pleasure during the act of breast feeding and this can be psychologically disturbing. Therefore, it is very very common for nursing women to set their breasts as off limits to their spouses during this time. 

Personally, I think sex is the greatest thing ever. But it took me a long time to get to this stage. I also was raised conservatively and was shy about talking about it. But being shy gets you no where OP. You and your wife need a frank discussion about this or resentment and misunderstanding will build. While you may think she doesn't want you touching her lady bits because she is super modest or whatever, maybe you are being too rough, maybe you have dry, rough skin and it hurts her. My husband gets cracked and snaggy skin on his hands and it hurts me. These are the kinds of things you find out when you talk, and not make assumptions. None of us here can tell you what your wife is thinking, what her issues are. Please find out from her, rather than disregarding them and taking what you want.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

In the beginning of our relationship, my wife was very shy. She wanted the lights out, only missionary PIV, not willing to talk about sex....I took the lead, with gentle persuasive and confident actions. 

She became pregnant almost immediately, and I can remember lying in bed with her as she nursed our son...
Laughing, and cuddling, we were amazed at the abundance of her milk, and its sweet taste...I would help her wipe up the dribbles, and it was a really wonderful, comfortable bonding experience for all 3 of us...

There was absolutely nothing but wholesome familial love and bonding in the experience...Every married couple when blessed by children should engage in those types of bonding moments...

For a woman to cover herself when in front of her husband, especially when nursing their children is a denial of the sharing that marriage should be about. 

A woman should see their marriage ceremony as the spiritual tearing down of those walls and boundaries, and embrace it whole heartedly....And in my opinion, a gentle, kind, persuasive husband is a better choice for wiping away these barriers than any counsilior.....No words are as effective as loving touch...

Good luck
the woodchuck


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## vspinkgrl (Dec 4, 2012)

I openly nurse all the time. We do share those moments. You are right woodchuck, men should be let in on that.

But, when we are engaging in sex, its uncomfortable for me to have them out, leaking all over the place. Also, it hurts if he is grabbing them. 

The OP should be a little considerate that breasts full of milk can be very uncomfortable for a woman.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

vspinkgrl said:


> I openly nurse all the time. We do share those moments. You are right woodchuck, men should be let in on that.
> 
> But, when we are engaging in sex, its uncomfortable for me to have them out, leaking all over the place. Also, it hurts if he is grabbing them.
> 
> The OP should be a little considerate that breasts full of milk can be very uncomfortable for a woman.


You are absolutely correct....Men should experience all the wonders of the childbirth/nurturing miracle. I believe my wife even slept in a sports bra kind of thing when her breasts were full...The marriage bed should be a place of comfort above all.

I had the impression the OP was denied his wife's breasts when she was not lactating.....

When I see posts like this It makes me appreciate even more the relationship I have had with my wife. It is really brought home to me by relationships where shyness and modesty interferes with the pleasures both parties should be experiencing as a married couple...I hope the OP and his wife can find a way to remove their barriers......

good luck
the woodchuck


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Dxbguy said:


> My wife and I have been married for 12 years tomorrow after being together for 6 years prior to that through high school.
> 
> My wife is an incredible person and a real blessing to me and our 3 kids. I love her a lot!
> 
> ...


 Me & mine married as "dirty virgins" you might say, years of touchign each other to orgasms but NO intercourse till our wedding night. (then had some trouble)...

Because of MY religious background, being pounded into our heads about purity, It DID affect my mind some... this followed me into our marriage, too embarrassed to open up about masterbation , didnt really talk about sex, viewed BJs as something "bad girls" do... Wanted the lights dim, vanilla for many many years... 

I can tell you this.. These are the Biggest regrets of my marriage ,that we DIDn't open up the sex dialog earlier & really LEARN, explore, talk about fantasies, masterbation, UP the spice... all of it...so we missed each other more than we should have - for years...

I would 1st suggest this book to you -if you are seeking a Christian book...

*1*. Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage: 

More Books on the secular side but excellent >>>

*2. *The Good Girl's Guide to Great Sex: (And You Thought Bad Girls Have All the Fun): 

*3.*  The Good Girl's Guide to Bad Girl Sex: An Indispensible Guide to Pleasure & Seduction 

*4*. The Complete Idiot's Guide to Amazing Sex: 

*5*. The Book of Questions: Love & Sex: 

*6*. 469 Fun Sex Questions for Couples: Ignite Your Desire With Hot Talk: Books



> all be it a very cautious sex life with little more than a bit of touching, lots of kissing and PIV. I would love to experiment and try most things, *but somehow can't bring myself to address it with her out of respect.*.. I know she is incredibly shy talking about sex at all.


 YOU are the higher Drive partner...you are the one aroused, frustrated, antsy... this means YOU need to be the more Creative to bring her unto yourself...to guide her to more intimacy...learn what turns her on... all starts with communication...could use a Sex game to help .... 

We have this one.. it is wonderful for introducing Sex talk, learning, ideas, talking about fantasies... 

Kinky World » Discover Your Lover Adult Board Game Review (the GAME alone will open up the sex dialog, it has 100 Affectionate cards, 80 intimate cards and 60 passionate cards...plus easy & difficult sex questions for learning, massage spaces as you go around the board...and the cards tell you what to try... so this takes the burden off of you.... this has great reviews... and for a couple wanting to Discover more & up the learning.. I highly recommend.



> Added to this, we have sex about twice a month. I seriously could do it most days of the week. I am very HD and this is incredibly frustrating.


 I feel for you and this is not OK ...you wife is not understanding that







*is an EMOTIONAL NEED*....Read this article >>

Sex is an Emotional NEED...Male sexuality is a central part of who he is as both a man and a husband



> Oral has only happened to me about 3 times and I am stopped every time I try on her. I am also not allowed near Her boobs...*apparently they belong to the kids now*. As for the patio ate kissing we used to have.....well those left some years ago.


 Many men & women do not realize that Breastfeeding lowers her Libido ...

Don't Want Sex While Breastfeeding? 5 Reasons For Low Libido When Nursing



> We have got 3 kids under the age of 5, *but this was a issue before the kids came.*


 Unfortunately .. this speaks to your wife not being very interested in sex....whether it is more due to some respression / feeling dirty or her just having a naturally lower sex drive... one thing is certain.. she does NOT understand or grasp the male sex drive and how she is hurting YOU...
This is something I also did NOT understand back in our younger years either ... (we had 5 kids in 9 yrs in our 30's)...

Get babysitters, go out on dates, Show the Romance, seek to learn what arouses her (a romantic movie, Romance novel, a massage)......learn her LOve Languages ... open up the communication, get some Books to help you...and she...


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

SimplyAmorous
Think of all the catching up you and your husband have in front of you.....It is a wonderful thing when a married couple gets to the point where there are no boundaries and complete trust...

My wife and I believe that in the santuary of the marriage bed, there is absolute freedom of expression... 

I was lucky in that my wife was also HD and trusted me to take the lead.....I was not highly experienced, but was highly motivated, and instinctivly knew that everything I desired would be mine with patience, and kindness...And it has been. We have had an absolutely wonderful love life, to this day...


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## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

LadyOfTheLake said:


> ...Therefore, it is very very common for nursing women to set their breasts as off limits to their spouses during this time.


Grief - not in my experience!

Of course it may have something to do with my wife being very fond of her breasts, and very happy to share them with me, before we had children.

Certainly, they were not off limits while she was nursing - far from it.

Yes, full breasts can be uncomfortable, but there's no actual need to wait for a baby to drain them - doing that service for your wife can be a lovely thing (and much appreciated by the wife!)

On the larger, overall picture, yes, everyone has a right to regulate access to their own body - even within marriage. However a marriage does (possibly unless both parties, before the event, mutually agree otherwise) shared sexual contact, for the benefit of both. Denying this on other party, is unfair, dishonest, and does not allow for a solid marriage with mutual trust and welfare.

Loving sex is a major part of any healthy marriage, I believe, and if one party is frustrated or feels demeaned, it will weaken the relationshop greatly.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

I agree that there are reasons why some women don't like th heir breasts fondled. I was one of them...I was an early bloomer and very large breasted for a skinny petite girl. At 15 I weighted 100 lbs and wore a D cup. This made me very self concious and got me more attention than a shy girl would want. Right befor my 16th birthday my best friends father tried to molest me...grabbed me from behind and the first thing he went for was my breast....that trauma left mental scars that took a long time for me to get past. Specifically I had an aversion to having my breasts touched. My big guy just kept slowly working his way there and desensitizing me (getting me comfortable) to being touched. It took time..years but he finally got me to love having my breasts fondled, licked and sucked on.

I also believe a husband and wife should allow free access to their spouses to their bodies without limitations. My hubster knew from the begining why I felt uncomfortable and worked with me to change my aversion. If he had not persisted I would never have changed and never learned to enjoy and be proud of my voluptuous DD breasts. We all have hang ups from life experiences, but if you love someone enough you work with them even if they don't want you to, to help them get past it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

One way or another, OP must teach his wife that sexual fulfillment is very important to him...It's the essence of marraige to him.. without it his life and by extension his wife is lacking.

You can't say everything is great but this one thing... You have to be confident enought to realize that if your wife is not meeting your most important emotional need, while you are meeting hers, then you do not have a loving marriage.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Sorry I missed this when it first came out.

Your description of your sex life is basically the same as mine was in 1985. I was definitely not a virgin, but the wife was as close as you can come to the title without technically qualifying.

I'm not going to bore you with a long story, so here's the summary details:
1. Sex was missionary or cowgirl PIV
2. Lights out
3. No touching the breasts
4. No touching the genitals
5. No oral, giving or receiving
6. Very little foreplay that you couldn't do in a crowded room

The difference today, 27 years later, is that the lights no longer need to be off and we've added one position.

Wish I could give you better news. Some folks just view the world so completely differently in the bedroom that they're never going to find a happy medium. What's normal expected sexual behavior to you is disgusting or unpleasant to her. You may get her to engage in some of those other activities you want, but will she ever enjoy them? Who can say. If she doesn't, chances are you'll just start feeling guilty about imposing your needs on your wife and start putting distance between you in the bedroom.

I'm just here to tell you that, for my sample size of 1, it did not get better. I should have left before we had children. I wish you better luck.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Woodchuck said:


> .
> The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again.[/B]
> Every culture recognises these precepts, PC or not....
> 
> ...


This body ownership comes up when a a man encounters pushback from his wife in some sexual matter. 

It never comes up when a woman objects to her husbands use of porn or gets upset when her husband masturbates. . 

Men are autonomous beings and have the right to use porn and masturbate, no matter how insecure and unhappy it makes his wife. 

Wouldn't the corollary be that women are autonomous beings and have a right to have dominion over what happens to them sexually no matter how insecure and unhappy it makes her husband? 

There is some inconsistency here, no? If i remember correctly, in that same book, are there not passages that warn about the sinful nature of porn and masturbation? 

In a perfect world where everyone followed the good book to the letter, this body snatcher thing would be safe. But in a society that is over sexualized and pornified, no.

It would be very dangerous for a woman gave up her right to say no, I don't want that done to me or my body, thank you. Even to her husband. She may be an imperfect wife to do so but her husband has his imperfections too.

I happen to think masturbation is normal and healthy. I cannot resolve in my mind what is meant by biblical passages on this subject. I also think that maintaining dominion over your body and soul is healthy. I sometimes think that we take things too literally from that good book.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> This body ownership comes up when a a man encounters pushback from his wife in some sexual matter.
> 
> It never comes up when a woman objects to her husbands use of porn or gets upset when her husband masturbates. .
> 
> Men are autonomous beings and have the right to use porn and masturbate, no matter how insecure and unhappy it makes his wife.


Are we reading the same forum? 'Cause I see this point made time and time again. Do I need to summon LittleDeer for a concise summary?

I have no problem with a woman deciding exactly what she does and does not do with her body, and believe me, I married someone who excels in exercising that right. Just understand that if you abuse that power, there will be consequences, just like one should expect from an overindulgence in pornography.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Are we reading the same forum? 'Cause I see this point made time and time again. Do I need to summon LittleDeer for a concise summary?
> 
> I have no problem with a woman deciding exactly what she does and does not do with her body, and believe me, I married someone who excels in exercising that right. Just understand that if you abuse that power, there will be consequences, just like one should expect from an overindulgence in pornography.


Yes I know about the consequences. Cause I have seen this point made time and time again. 

Cheating, divorce right? There is a 50% devorce rate and men cheat for variety. All the sexual aquencence in the world will not make a woman into someone else. 

That's why these not so subtle threats are ineffective. It changes nothing. Some women feel that no matter what she does, she will never be enough for men. 

Being sexually over accommodating does not get a woman more love. I think if it is something that is mutually enjoyable, women should go for it. If it is just for his pleasure, she should do it if she feel good about it. 

I think a woman know that accommodating her husband sexually in spite of her dislikes, is not a preventative to divorce or cheating. That's why these threats backfire. 

Who wants to sexually satisfy a man who threatens you?? That not love, it's blackmail.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

Catherine602 ... something to ponder, verbal communication (mental bonding) is one of the primary intimacy drivers for a female and physical contact/ touch is one of the primary intimacy drivers for men. So wemon refusing sex because their tired..not in the mood...been touched to much this week would be equal to a man saying I don't want to speak to you this week because I am tired...not in the mood...been talked to much this week...right?

Some how society has accepted women refusing to have sex for whatever reason they want but we hold men to a different standard. I understand preferences in sexual acts but I don't understand out and out refusal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Sorry I missed this when it first came out.
> 
> Your description of your sex life is basically the same as mine was in 1985. I was definitely not a virgin, but the wife was as close as you can come to the title without technically qualifying.
> 
> ...


If you don't love her wish you were not with her now, why are you having sex with her? Because she is there? 

I thought sex was some kind of binding emotional thing for men. 

Or is it binding and emotional when the lights are on, 20 positions are on offer and oral is abundant? 

I see this so often and it confusing. I can't make out what is true and what is rationalization.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Yes I know about the consequences. Cause I have seen this point made time and time again.
> 
> Cheating, divorce right? There is a 50% devorce rate and men cheat for variety. All the sexual aquencence in the world will not make a woman into someone else.
> 
> That's why these not so subtle threats are ineffective. It changes nothing. Some women feel that no matter what she does, she will never be enough for men.


Put the misandry on the back burner, huh?

I said that there would be consequences. That's a fact, not a threat. What form those consequences take depends on the couple and the issues. Divorce and infidelity are at the extreme end of the spectrum. Fights, disappointment, tears, lack of intimacy, and celibacy in marriage are certainly others.

Some women never will be enough for their man. Mine won't, because she doesn't even want to try. I get that it's part of her personality and not a personal vendetta, but do you seriously think that you can unilaterally tell your husband "this is not for you to touch" and have it not affect your relationship? 

You can't be that naive. I'm arguing she has that right and I have to respect it. But I do NOT have to like it or cry over her servitude at the hands of a sexual monster.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

mineforever said:


> Catherine602 ... something to ponder, verbal communication (mental bonding) is one of the primary intimacy drivers for a female and physical contact/ touch is one of the primary intimacy drivers for men. So wemon refusing sex because their tired..not in the mood...been touched to much this week would be equal to a man saying I don't want to speak to you this week because I am tired...not in the mood...been talked to much this week...right?
> 
> Some how society has accepted women refusing to have sex for whatever reason they want but we hold men to a different standard. I understand preferences in sexual acts but I don't understand out and out refusal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mine - I know that and I live it in my marriage. 

I have a good and ever improving sex life with my husband but not because i fear divorce or cheating. I cant speak for my husband i hope he is as happy as he seems. am tiered or not in the mood at times when he is in the mood. I know how to get myself in the mood because I know that it is worth it. Not only for him but for me too. 

My point is that threats and body giving are insulting. It is a lazy way to solve sexual differences between men and women. It does take work but in a safe environment. 

If there are demands, threats and inequality in pleasure then how can it work?. I was very inhibited when I first got married. I felt safe with my husband because he was patient with me and never made me feel that I was required to do anything. 

I feel that we are a team and getting me to open up is one of our projects. We don't threaten each other or expect service from each other. We do expect to have fun though.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Put the misandry on the back burner, huh?
> 
> I said that there would be consequences. That's a fact, not a threat. What form those consequences take depends on the couple and the issues. Divorce and infidelity are at the extreme end of the spectrum. Fights, disappointment, tears, lack of intimacy, and celibacy in marriage are certainly others.
> 
> ...


I dont think you are a mysogenous because we don't agree. This discussion helps me understand. If I agreed with everything, I would never have come as far as I have by posting on this forum. 

trying to understand here. I get it about your wife. What I don't get is how can you want to have sex with a woman who is not enough for you. It is a selfish question. 

sex for me is an emotionally bonding experience with my husband. I know that men can have sex with a woman they don't even like if they get an orgasm out of it. 

Frankly, if I thought my husbands love had diminished to that point I would invite him to find someone else. 

How did you get the impression that you are a sexual monster? Because your wife is unsatisfactory sexually for you and you want more? I don't think that is monstrous. 

Or that you are wrong or asking too much. If I did that would be called shaming. It is a ploy used by people to shut others down. 

You have as much right to express your frustrations with your wife as I have to exercise my fears of not being enough.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> If you don't love her wish you were not with her now, why are you having sex with her? Because she is there?
> 
> I thought sex was some kind of binding emotional thing for men.
> 
> ...


I never said I didn't love her. Sex is a binding and emotional thing. It's also something that can grow stale over time when it never varies. Plenty of women share that viewpoint too. It's one of most recommended tactics marriage counselors encourage couples to work on for the quality of their relationship.

When the sex is mediocre or bad, the emotional binding suffers. Our relationship is not as good as it could be for want of a better sex life. 

It's all true. I am sexually unsatisfied in an otherwise functioning marriage. I'm not foolhardy enough to believe that ending it will make me any happier, in the balance. I could gain a better sexual partner but lose a caring mate. I might wind up with a drunk or a gold digger. Who knows? 

And why the bifurcation? There's plenty of middle ground between a sexually repressed woman and a porn star that would make a rich place for happiness.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

its your job to pull her sexuality out of her.

don't let her indifference to sex turn you off. I would bet she is more sexual than you think.

are you sure she orgasms like you said 9 out of ten times. most women need a fair bit of forplay to orgasm...things like oral and fingers after some long kissing and sweet whispers. I would bet she feels like she should orgasm with just piv and sex has been a disappointment to her.

do some research on how to give a woman an orgasm. talk to her about how sexy her body is and how sex should be an adventure about learning each others body. tell her honest communication is the road to great sex and a happy marriage. push her boundaries 
but not to hard. 

stop having sex until she wants to open up about it but still be loving to her. if she still dosn't want to try to make things better then decide if its a deal breaker......but remember that a life time of the same old same old gets old!


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