# Question for the 'Must Confess' camp



## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

In the time I've been active here I've seen the fierce debate between those who think that you must always tell the truth about infidelity and those who think that the right answer not always so clear.

I appreciate the views on both sides and I'm not firmly in either camp. For those who feel that you always must tell, do you think that you should protect the feelings of your partner when the difficult questions come? E.g.

Did you like having sex with her/him better than with me?
Did he have a bigger penis than me?
Did you find him or her more attractive than me?
etc, etc.

It would seem to me that unless you are prepared to tell the WHOLE truth even in these painful things, why bother saying anything? Sometimes here I see a view that the 'whole truth' only includes the hard tangible facts of the cheating and not the true inner feelings around it.

And even if you haven't cheated, should you tell your spouse that you aren't physically attracted to them if this is the case? Even if they ask you? Or that you are not completely satisfied by their small penis?

It seems that in most relationships, people protect the feelings of their partner regularly by suppressing the hard truths and concentrating on the positive. Isn't protecting your partner from the truths of past cheating just part of that? If everyone always said exactly how they felt all the time, there wouldn't be very many relationships.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

I believe the truth should always be told.
Even if it is an inconvenient truth.
I have found that people NEVER lie to protect anyone but THEMSELVES.

So if you are no longer sexually attracted to your partner and you tell them so , then there are two options.
1] Leave
2] Work on it together.

If the affair partner had a bigger penis then you need to decide whether the affair partner's penis is worth more than your marriage. If it is worth more then leave. If not then be happy with what your partner has. Your vagina may not have been his " perfect fit " either.

If you are dissatisfied with any part of your relationship, you should be mature, honest and open enough to discuss it and work on it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*I did not want to know the details of my wife's affair.*

Just the knowledge that she and her lover had sex and that I was not, well, that broke my heart and made me feel bad enough.

To find out he was bigger than me or better than me, I do not think that our relationship could have survived that.

*There can be no "Golden Rule" here.*

Some people need the details, some do not.

Hiding stuff from someone who wants to know is a killer. Giving everything to someone who doesn't want to know is also a killer.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

couple said:


> In the time I've been active here I've seen the fierce debate between those who think that you must always tell the truth about infidelity and those who think that the right answer not always so clear.
> 
> I appreciate the views on both sides and I'm not firmly in either camp. For those who feel that you always must tell, do you think that you should protect the feelings of your partner when the difficult questions come? E.g.
> 
> ...


Do these pants make my butt look fat?


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## YinPrincess (Jul 31, 2011)

People don't "protect" the feelings of their partners, IMO. They protect themselves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

I think that, in the event of cheating, you should be prepared to tell your partner every single detail you remember. And don't just arbitrarily say "I don't remember"... At the same time, there are things the partner does not want to hear, and you should respect that as well. You DO need to communicate openly and honestly. If he wants to know how big the AP's penis is, tell him. If he doesn't, then don't... but be prepared for him to ask at any time. 

The key is communication, though. You can't get past it if you don't talk. 

As far as EAs... be ready when asked "what did he give you that I couldn't?" or similar questions. Honestly, I don't think there is a cut and dry answer to this. The only thing I can say is be prepared to answer the questions...even/especially the hurtful ones.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I sought all honest truths about the affair.
My spouse was not comfortable in answering those questions. However, my questions were mostly about inner feelings rather than physical features.
I agree with CM. With the truths being told, the BS will be able to deal with reality.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> *I did not want to know the details of my wife's affair.*
> 
> Just the knowledge that she and her lover had sex and that I was not, well, that broke my heart and made me feel bad enough.
> 
> ...


^^^^^^^^ agree with Mat all the way here.
If you don't want the answer, don't ask the question.
There are lots of details I don't know about Hs A but that's because I haven't asked.
When something comes into my mind I ask myself 'will it benefit me knowing the answer to this, or will it just hurt me more?'
If the answer is the latter I don't ask and I usually find it is forgotten about in a day or two. If its still in my mind though and bothering me, then I will ask.

I have not asked H about any part of the sexual side of his A. I'm not interested. I don't want to know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I am in the Radical Honesty camp. Trust is the bedrock of a marriage, so it cannot exist if there are lies, deceptions, or omissions. 

It is also true that each person's level of need for truth is different. In the event of an affair the BS determines which questions to ask, and it is the duty of the WS to answer with full honesty.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Telling the BS every last detail may purge your soul, but could destroy the BS. Please do be mindful of that.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Do these pants make my butt look fat?


If my wife ever asked me that and they did, I would tell her. Brutal honesty!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

On serious things like affairs then yea you need to tell 
1. First what you think you need to tell.
2. What ever else the BS asks.

And hope for god's sake the BS is not crazy enough to ask the "Was he/she better than me or bigger than me" question.

On little things though like before going to town and she asks "do I look ok". I may candy coat a little because she always looks good. Sometimes just not as good.


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## Writer (Aug 3, 2012)

I don't advocate protecting a partner's feelings. My husband tried to use this excuse for two years while guilt was eating him up in his revenge EA. It sounds like such a helpful thing, but the truth is that there is no protecting the partner's feelings. It boils down to protecting your own self. 

If you aren't attracted to your partner, you need to tell them. You either work on it together or you leave. Marriage, in itself, is work. This is part of that work.

As for telling the BS the details of the affair. It is not up to the WS to decide anything for the BS. They are the ones that did wrong. You follow their lead, answering the questions that they ask and answer them truthfully. Just be tactful with the truth (not hiding the details but framing them to help with the pain). Remember, the BS is shattered, hurting. Don't make trickle truth and make the healing take longer.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I think you should admit to generalities first, then supply every detail that is asked for, as it is asked for.

Couple,
Is there a reason you are asking this question?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

If the BS expresses the need to know, they need to know. Stop covering your arse with pretend-care for your spouse, they are adults and know better than you. If you really cared in first place you wouldn't be facing those questions.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

The BS deserves and needs the truth.

The WS can only meet this need by giving the truth.

The BS must be sure does he need an answer. Once an answer is heard it can not be unheard.

This is why the BS controls the level of detail.

Example when a BH asks how good was the sex with the OM the WW would not be lying when she said it was good. This gives the BH the truth. And the time for him to realize if he wants to hear more detail.

The BH may not be able to handle that the sex was better with the OM and may leave that line of questioning alone.

Then again if the BH wants to dig deeper and he asks how good, was the sex better with the OM then himself. Then the WW has to say the truth.

Could of the WW enjoyed sex with both then she should say so. Or no one was better, OM and BH were different, she enjoyed each for themselves. Again for the WW to make this claim it has to be true.

Who's equipment was bigger. If the BH asks then the WW has to say. I don't remember is not going to work. If the answer is the OM is bigger then that's what the WW has to say.

No need to point out the OM is hung like a horse, or give a numerical value when that level of detail is not asked.

This is what is meant by being honest not brutal.


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## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Telling the BS every last detail may purge your soul, but could destroy the BS. Please do be mindful of that.


I'm going to say it's too late to worry about this as well. The WS made their choice, this is a possible consequence. The WS has no right to decide what info to share or not. Yes the BS may ask questions that will hurt, may ask for details they shouldn't. I think it is very likely that someone who does go for details will imagine the absolute worst, the details actually provide a small measure of relief in that regard. Those BS' are going to be tortured by their mind movies either way.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Telling the BS every last detail may purge your soul, but could destroy the BS. Please do be mindful of that.


If you're saying to tell everything you believe is important but don't give useless hurtful details then yes I agree. Number of times, length of time, etc are important. I've never had an affair but if I had, I'm sure I would not have voluntarily given details like positions. I would hope women would not say anything about EA being larger.

Now if BS asks the question then you gotta answer though. IMO.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

An affair indicates problems in a relationship and it usually involves lying that destroys trust.

If the WS does not come clean it makes it harder to rebuild trust. And if you don't talk about problems how do you address then?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

YinPrincess said:


> People don't "protect" the feelings of their partners, IMO. They protect themselves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe not in all cases.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> If you're saying to tell everything you believe is important but don't give useless hurtful details then yes I agree. Number of times, length of time, etc are important. I've never had an affair but if I had, I'm sure I would not have voluntarily given details like positions. I would hope women would not say anything about EA being larger.
> 
> Now if BS asks the question then you gotta answer though. IMO.





> Number of times, length of time, etc are important.


No. Not to me! See, that's precisely what I did *not* want to know!


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Maybe not in all cases.


Ok Matt,
I think I understand from your original post that you didn't want to know.
I see no problem with that because its your personal choice.There are exceptions to every rule. 
But like the overwhelming majority has said,the wayward partner should at least be prepared to answer truthfully whatever questions are asked , and not try to lie or beat around the bush.

I think that is reasonable.
Yes?


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## Count of Monte Cristo (Mar 21, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> If the affair partner had a bigger penis then you need to decide whether the affair partner's penis is worth more than your marriage. If it is worth more then leave. If not then be happy with what your partner has. *Your vagina may not have been his " perfect fit " either.*


:iagree:

Caribbean Man, I couldn't agree more. If a woman is callous enough to tell her man that he's not 'big' enough to satisfy her, his comeback should be:

'Maybe if your vajayjay wasn't so slack you wouldn't have to search for a bigger dik.'


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> No. Not to me! See, that's precisely what I did *not* want to know!


Fair enough. That's when you throw out the disclaimer first thing. I do not want to know "x". But yea I understand completely.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Count of Monte Cristo said:


> :iagree:
> 
> Caribbean Man, I couldn't agree more. If a woman is callous enough to tell her man that he's not 'big' enough to satisfy her, his comeback should be:
> 
> 'Maybe if your vajayjay wasn't so slack you wouldn't have to search for a bigger dik.'


 Something inside me I have no control over would file divorce papers before the end of the business day. I have no grasp of why I feel that way. And I don't feel neglected in that area so I can only imagine if it were small. Glad it's never happened.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

politicians don't tell us the truth do they? Is that the camp you want to be in????


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Caribbean Man said:


> Ok Matt,
> I think I understand from your original post that you didn't want to know.
> I see no problem with that because its your personal choice.There are exceptions to every rule.
> But like the overwhelming majority has said,the wayward partner should at least be prepared to answer truthfully whatever questions are asked , and not try to lie or beat around the bush.
> ...


Yep! I agree. Horses for courses, as the saying goes.

Actually, I blanked out from my memory the fact that I knew my wife and her lover had had sex.

It was a post on TAM that triggered a memory of when I found out they had been sexual.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Actually, I blanked out from my memory the fact that I knew my wife and her lover had had sex.


You could make a lot of money teaching people that nifty trick. In all seriousness I know how traumatic it is though.

We should all have names like your's. I should be ThundarrThundarr.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

When my WW first told me, she didn't even give me half the details she should have. 
Then when I sent an email demanding some more answers, it was was like the flood gates open. She told me (what I thought was) everything. I was taken back by that. 
But she decided to keep some things from me, which she told me later. Much later. (like after I kicked her out and started filing later)

Now, some might say she had a reason to TT me since the way I originally reacted was...not ideal. Or even smart. Or safe...
However, I was angry to learn more details. I ask her for the longest time "Is this the entire truth?" Then she would say "yes." Only to drop another bomb on me later. And that takes a toll on someone. 

Also, and I think I figured out one reason why the WS does TT. 

First off, obviously to 'save' the other spouse feelings. And because it is painful to hurt the one you care about, and all the other (extremely selfish reasons IMO) reasons they give

But I think the biggest, actual, main reason for it:
They don't want to tell everything unless they either: are made to with evidence or something like that, or they feel morally guilty. 

Think about it. If a WS has done 4 things that they know their SO will divorce them for, they will gradually let it out. So if after 2 big things the BS divorces because the BS can't take it, they don't have to know the other 2. And that saves them the WS embarrassment and hurt of having to tell them. And they think they are helping the BS by not telling them. 

Now, is R or D more likely giving the entire 100% truth the first time than TT? Who know's.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

I know why people TT. Primarily self preservation and sometimes denial. Either way it's like cheating or steeling. The person doing it always knows it's wrong.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

couple said:


> In the time I've been active here I've seen the fierce debate between those who think that you must always tell the truth about infidelity and those who think that the right answer not always so clear.
> 
> I appreciate the views on both sides and I'm not firmly in either camp. For those who feel that you always must tell, do you think that you should protect the feelings of your partner when the difficult questions come? E.g.
> 
> ...


 I believe in giving the whole truth. If you cheated and don't find your SO attractive, that is vital information. If you cheated because your SO is verbally abusive, also imperative. If you have been cheated on and your SO was verbally abusive, also something that is imperative. 

What is unfortunate, is that when one spouse is cheating, a good amount of the time they are being quite terrible to their BS. My H was verbally abusive, insulted me daily, ignored me, withheld intimacy, drank all the time, didn't do anything with me or the kids EVER, and DIDN'T CARE about any of it. But the second his affair was found out, I got a list of complaints. I was fat (LMAO 140 lbs at 5"10") b****y ( you would be too if you hadn't had sex in 6 months) and all I did was nag. Didn't get anywhere by just saying what we didn't like. 

Then we sat down, and I asked him to tell me one time where I was nagging him. He told me, and I said "oh, you mean when I had the flu, our two kids had the flu also, and you walked in and screamed at me because I hadn't done anything that day". And he got quiet. Sometimes it can help to look at individual instances to see what the other person's perspective is. But I want it all. You think I am being snarky? Tell me that and tell my why. At least then we can talk it out and either apologize or understand what the other considers snarky.


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

I didn't ask for the whole details of my soon to be ex wife's affair because it would have been just a pain in the a** to beat around the trickle truth. Had she given the truth, and had I miraculously been convinced it's the truth, it would have only seemed like a robber explaining the how to of his robbery to the victim.
So I can imagine the reasons that push people to find out so they can achieve closure, but in my case she can take her details and shove it where she allowed the man to take her.

You raised the most common questions about asked details.


> Did you like having sex with her/him better than with me?
> Did he have a bigger penis than me?
> Did you find him or her more attractive than me?
> etc, etc.


What changes to the idea, if she despised having sex with him when she enjoyed the flirtation?
There are millions of males that she finds attractive more than me, if she had a chance to get with a model or an A list actor and broke up with me in prior, I'd have my heart broken but I'll have no right to hold it against her.

I can't help if I have a smaller penis then the other man, these aren't things that I can do much about. And him having a smaller one than mine won't help me feel better. Had he a gem for a c***, he still managed to penetrate her which is something I deserved for years of efforts, trust building and respecting my vows. It isn't about technicality nor details, it is about the bigger picture.

The affair did happen, and that's all the truth I "needed".

I didn't know that we had camps, but you can define me as a member of the "must confess" clan. Yet even inside this group, I may have different opinions than what others may see as the right thing to do.

Not cheating is the only way to protect your partner's feeling. If you failed to do so, you lose all privileges to be the guardian of your partner's feelings.
In my opinion, not telling the truth would be the moral equivalent of killing your beloved pet and then keeping his corpse in the fridge to not rot. 
You'll probably tell yourself that it's the best things for his skin and organs, but you only did it so you could remain close. Your pet had no saying in your decision.
You can be scared to the idea that your pet will stink, but you DID kill him in the first place. So... double u, tee, eff.

It's not about truth or lie, it's about honesty and deceit. You're deceiving your partner each time they look at you and think: What a faithful partner, I have. You're deceiving your partner every second he/she thought better of you. 

Not telling your partner also means that you indirectly agree that you can't win her/him back.

You can rationalize anything into anything, the only thing that you can't embellish is the nature of your action.
I killed my pet so he'd never suffer stomach ache ever again.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I asked my disloyal ex W those questions, not that I needed to know the answers but more as a way to gauge her level of forthrightness... I put them out there knowing they were personal details for her to answer to see how she either evaded the answer of reacted to the question, so I could hopefully glean if there was more truth to trickle out or not. I concluded in my own opinion that she was honest about what she said but I believe there is still more than I know, the fact that she was answering my questions so candidly while being determined to separate kinda convinced me I wasn't asking all the relevant questions. It also helped me paint a picture and piece together a time line to help me understand just how blind I was and to hopefully learn to not be so oblivious in the future.


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

Torrivien said:


> I can't help if I have a smaller penis then the other man, these aren't things that I can do much about. And him having a smaller one than mine won't help me feel better. Had he a gem for a c***, he still managed to penetrate her which is something I deserved for years of efforts, trust building and respecting my vows. It isn't about technicality nor details, it is about the bigger picture.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Im not so sure about this point. Recently in the last 3 weeks I have been doing stretching exercises and jelqing. I measure before at 6" long and 5.4" circumference at the base. I could tell that he FELT bigger and harder with erections but thought it would be negligible and all in my head.. However, I measured today at 6-6.25" long (small change if any) and 6" in circumference at the base (all with erection btw). !!!! I was amazed. tahts A real measurable difference and I notice I cant close my fingers around it the same way. they meet up at a different point now.
> ...


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## HappyHubby (Aug 16, 2012)

I know its completely besides the point in all this but I thought I mention. haha


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bride of Frank said:


> No Matt I disagree. What destroys the BS is that she had an affair in the first place. He's destroyed, whether he knows details or not. Actually he's destroyed even if he never finds out, which is the cruelest treatment of all. It's *too late* after the fact to say, "I'm not telling and that will protect him".
> 
> The only way BS can even hope to recover is to know what she hid from him.


But it would have destroyed me. Obviously having an affair is destructive. But to destroy the BS in order to save yourself? Well, I can see a problem right there...


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

couple said:


> In the time I've been active here I've seen the fierce debate between those who think that you must always tell the truth about infidelity and those who think that the right answer not always so clear.
> 
> I appreciate the views on both sides and I'm not firmly in either camp. For those who feel that you always must tell, do you think that you should protect the feelings of your partner when the difficult questions come? E.g.
> 
> ...


So just to reiterate, your question here is: If you one of the people who believe you must tell your spouse, do you thing you should protect your spouse's feelings with the difficult questions? Is that right?? And then you give three examples of what you think difficult questions would be. 

A) No I don't believe you should HIDE anything that is the truth from your spouse. 
B) The 3 questions that your suggest seem to imply that having sex with the affair partner is better, that the male person in the affair had a bigger penis (or bigger boobs), and that the disloyal spouse found the affair partner more attractive. Frankly those are BIG assumptions and not usually the truth at all.
C) To be utterly clear, I do not know that it would be wisdom to just spout off and tell your spouse: "Hey the OP had a RAGING HOT body, was a great lay, and sex with them was MINDBLOWING" even if that was the case...which it usually is not. My own OM was heavier than my Dear Hubby, not nearly as intelligent, definitely not as moral and loving in the true sense of the word, and we never slept together but the insinuating and flirting felt simultaneously exhilarating and sickening. So if they don't feel the need to know the OM's penis length, I see no reason to indicate its size at all. If your spouse asks, however, I would say answer everything as absolutely fully and in as much detail as you remember, even the parts about which you are embarrassed and even the parts you think may hurt them a bit. The TRUTH can be dealt with...lies and covering up can not and will destroy the marriage. 



> It would seem to me that unless you are prepared to tell the WHOLE truth even in these painful things, why bother saying anything? Sometimes here I see a view that the 'whole truth' only includes the hard tangible facts of the cheating and not the true inner feelings around it.


Well there I disagree. Part of the issue that the husband and wife are going to have to address is whatever the "true inner feelings around it" were. For example, let's say that the spouse has put on a little weight and in reality it is disrupting your attraction to your spouse. The truth is that you need to guard yourself to not be tempted by that sexy person in the office BUT the truth is just as much that you need to face your spouse and let them know it's a problem! Ditto for being ignored, feeling lonely, etc. If the marriage is to survive, it will have to be addressed. 



> And even if you haven't cheated, should you tell your spouse that you aren't physically attracted to them if this is the case? Even if they ask you? Or that you are not completely satisfied by their small penis?


Well bear this in mind. I married my husband and there's not too much he can do about the size of his Captain Hammer. Thus, wouldn't that roughly be like telling a short lady that you just are not satisfied she's not tall? Then why did you commit? Regarding things like weight, or dressing in sweats, or not showering...or having an attitude that just makes it impossible to like that person (ie, always complaining, bitter, raging, keeping score, blaming, etc.) ... those are things that your spouse really CAN work at and change and maybe got a little lax on. So yep, those you talk about. Honestly, I have been in this infidelity "industry" for 13 years now and I don't really hear of women having affairs because "oh his penis is just so small!" I DO hear a LOT of women having affairs because their husband comes home after work and falls asleep in his recliner watching football every night.... or men having affairs because all their wife does is complain about bills, over spend, nag him, and tell him how he loaded the dishwasher wrong! 

Honestly I'd say if his penis is too small, or her boobs are too small that you married that person and now you probably better change YOUR OWN attitude! Get a dildo or a boob job and stop being so shallow 



> It seems that in most relationships, people protect the feelings of their partner regularly by suppressing the hard truths and concentrating on the positive. Isn't protecting your partner from the truths of past cheating just part of that? If everyone always said exactly how they felt all the time, there wouldn't be very many relationships.


I think there is a difference between realizing that my head knows my Dear Hubby is loving, honest and deserving of my affections, and I don't quite feel that way yet so I'm going to "fake it until I make it" ... and I really don't even like him, he's a jerk and a slob and abusive, and I'm going to just pretend everything is okay and stuff it down. 

In the first instance, you are not suppressing the truth but rather recognizing that your head is right and your heart isn't in sync yet. Thus, when you think of something "positive" about the OP you stop yourself, put that thought out of your head, and think something positive about your spouse and you are building a habit and the feelings that match it AND honor your vow. However, that doesn't mean you avoid the issues, like if your spouse IS disrespectful, rather than complaining to friends about what your spouse did, you address it with them! 

In the second instance, you actually ARE suppressing the truth and even though the truth is that your spouse is acting abusively or disrespectfully, you become a doormat, let them walk all over you, don't speak up for yourself, and just "pretend" it's all alright. See, in the first instance, you recognize that what you were feeling does not match reality and thus the feelings are not a good standard--they'll change. But in the second instance, you recognize that you are feeling that way because in reality it really IS that way! Either way, the standard to use is not "feelings" because feelings can change with the wind, the weather, how much sleep you've had, your hormones, when you haven't eatten etc. The standard is always THE TRUTH...REALITY. What is true? What is real?


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Hi HappyHubby,
I'm gonna start by a story that happened to me when I was maybe 8 years old. I was caught smoking a cigarette, well not really smoking but inhaling superficially smoke and then exhaling it. My argument was that: I smoked the best quality blend, not a cheap one. It was the first time that someone explained to me that trying to reduce the gravity of one's action comes from a lack of guts.
It's not your job to weigh the potential hurt of your actions, it's the one that was betrayed.

During Dday, and before she flips out and say the opposite when I made it clear that she's going to be repudiated, she told me something that went similar to: I only was with him to feel how much good I am with you. B, please.
The you're better coming from a non-remorseful cheater can't possibly do me any good. It would seriously shake my image of myself if I'm pleasing the wrong crowds. The you're better coming for a remorseful wayward can make me see that she's beating herself up. But then again, it's supposed to be like that. You're supposed to have the best sex only with your partner (if you agreed to remain faithful to each other) so nothing change to the equation. I wouldn't give a medal to water for being such a clear liquid. Water is supposed to be like that, and I'm not supposed to drink fuel before realizing that water is a better drink. 

That's actually the point I tried to make.

Back to the penis thing, I'm very happy with what I have, it did me good in the past.  
However, I'm genuinely happy that you're getting more and more comfortable with your own skin. It will be benefitial to you directly, and your wife as well. A 0.23 increase is really something, keep up the good work.

Affaircare, you exactly said what I had in mind. If you're not satisfied with the physical aspect of your partner, why did you get married in the first place ?

I don't want my partner to love me for how I look, I have no merit for that. I want her to fall in love with my efforts to make her happy.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

couple said:


> In the time I've been active here I've seen the fierce debate between those who think that you must always tell the truth about infidelity and those who think that the right answer not always so clear.


I'm not convinced the OP has understood most of the debates... I have not heard anyone suggesting the WS reveal hateful truths as suggested. You tell you BS you had an affair, hand over evidence (txt, emails, etc) and go from there. And, yes if BS wants more intimate details - tough, WS just needs to *shamefully* reveal it. They were the ones who did wrong and deserve the shame, not thrust unjust hurt on BS. What I hear implied in the original post is not what a truly remorseful WS would do. You give the truth, but it is the attitude of remorse that is most important. If the marriage is not important to the WS tell the truth and leave (D)... because obviously the A was more important to the WS than the marriage. 

The OP also missed an important point... Most debates focus on 1) WS coming clean or 2) having BS discover A for themselves. I think most would agree the latter is worse.


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## Pault (Aug 15, 2012)

Think Matt has it rght. There are those parties that will want to block the trauma (and cheating is a form of trauma) so that they dont have to handle the painful aspects of the situation whilst others, and I include myself here would start running the scenario throught their heads all the time worrying and wondering what happened, why it happend etc. For those that just know there was an affir, that there was sexual contact and thats all they need to know then that must be accepted as fine for them. For those that need the indepth questiosn responsed to then that must be accepted as right for them. There are those who think that making the cheating partner explain with detail is a form of punishment as they have awkward, embaressing and uncomfortable questions to answer. That in itself could clear the air but it will serve to make the cheat feel that they haven't got away with anything


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

Pault said:


> Think Matt has it rght. There are those parties that will want to block the trauma (and cheating is a form of trauma) so that they dont have to handle the painful aspects of the situation whilst others, and I include myself here would start running the scenario throught their heads all the time worrying and wondering what happened, why it happend etc. For those that just know there was an affir, that there was sexual contact and thats all they need to know then that must be accepted as fine for them. For those that need the indepth questiosn responsed to then that must be accepted as right for them. There are those who think that making the cheating partner explain with detail is a form of punishment as they have awkward, embaressing and uncomfortable questions to answer. That in itself could clear the air but it will serve to make the cheat feel that they haven't got away with anything


Enough said.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Bride of Frank said:


> I think we have still got a misunderstanding Matt. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the WS should tell details just to 'save herself'. (If she were trying to save herself she'd just NOT tell, and to heck with her BS and his right to know.) Telling the BS is important because, as I put it before, he deserves to know the true story of his own marriage. WS just SAYS she isn't telling because she doesn't want to destroy him; that's a story for her own comfort, while as I said before, she destoyed him when she had the affair, long before she does or does not tell him what he needs to know.
> 
> Matt, you got what you needed to know of your wife's A. Some people need to know more or less details, but no WS should hold back the truth. Would you say you'd have felt better never knowing about your wife's A at all? I know you're a little different because you were forewarned about her A, but try to imagine if you would have liked it to happen and you never knew. If you say you'd have been happier to live your life in the dark, I'll be surprised, but everyone and every marriage is individual; you would be quite out of the ordinary there though I'd say.


Maybe it's which details, as well as how many, are required in a given instance. Some details really eat at me. Others don't at all. Every couple has their own path to healing.

But I am certain that, when there has been such a betrayal of trust, my imagination can usually think of far more dire possibilities than the truth.


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## couple (Nov 6, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> So just to reiterate, your question here is: If you one of the people who believe you must tell your spouse, do you thing you should protect your spouse's feelings with the difficult questions? Is that right?? And then you give three examples of what you think difficult questions would be....


Thank you affaircare. Just to clarify (and I think you get this), my question is rather theoretical and I posed it to better understand the position that the truth should always (or nearly always with few or no exceptions be told).

There is some misunderstanding in other responses. I fully understand that some people who have been cheated on want to know the full truth and others don't. Obviously you shouldn't get into things that they don't want to hear. I get that but my question is about how this camp feels about disclosing the truth when the partner asks. It's not all about the physical things. I suspect that when many people cheat and disclose it, it goes something like....

Q. So why did you do it?

A. I don't know I was just stupid.

Q. Did you enjoy the sex?

A. Actually I didn't really enjoy it so i don't know why i did it.

etc, etc.

I know there is no script for this kind of conversation but my point is that the confessor (I think) generally tries to downplay it to save feelings and at the same time enforce his love for his partner. Having exited the fog he/she comes back to the reality of the relationship and commits to want to make it work (therefore not wanting to damage it more).

Perhaps saving the marriage or not depends on what is disclosed and what is not. Most will say things like 'the truth should always be told' but my main point is that in even the healthiest relationships with no cheating, the WHOLE truth is not ALWAYS told.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

couple said:


> Thank you affaircare. Just to clarify (and I think you get this), my question is rather theoretical and I posed it to better understand the position that the truth should always (or nearly always with few or no exceptions be told).
> 
> There is some misunderstanding in other responses. I fully understand that some people who have been cheated on want to know the full truth and others don't. Obviously you shouldn't get into things that they don't want to hear. I get that but my question is about how this camp feels about disclosing the truth when the partner asks. It's not all about the physical things. I suspect that when many people cheat and disclose it, it goes something like....
> 
> ...


The truth is not always told. This is true. But it's a trust thing. Trust is so destroyed after infidelity that it won't withstand repeated new revelations. If the WS keeps lying and being caught, and the lies are of sufficient magnitude, I think the marriage will probably not survive.

It's a roll of the dice in that sense. Reveal something too horrible and the marriage is over. Lie and get caught and the marriage is over.

To that extent, I'd say much of the discussion here has been a tangent, but I don't agree it was a misunderstanding.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

couple said:


> Thank you affaircare. Just to clarify (and I think you get this), my question is rather theoretical and I posed it to better understand the position that the truth should always (or nearly always with few or no exceptions be told).
> 
> There is some misunderstanding in other responses. I fully understand that some people who have been cheated on want to know the full truth and others don't. Obviously you shouldn't get into things that they don't want to hear. I get that but my question is about how this camp feels about disclosing the truth when the partner asks. It's not all about the physical things. I suspect that when many people cheat and disclose it, it goes something like....
> 
> ...


I think you have some very good points here.

Whenever you "decide" to not tell the truth about something, whether about an affair, about yourself, about your opinions about your partner etc. you are not being true to yourself.

If you are not true about yourself or to yourself, you will not be able to find true happyness IMO. You also run the risk of being manipulative, and nothing good will come from that either.

So I stay in this camp and state without hesitation: Seek the truth within yourself and create a happy life for yourself and the people around you.


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## Ikaika (Apr 23, 2012)

couple said:


> Thank you affaircare. Just to clarify (and I think you get this), my question is rather theoretical and I posed it to better understand the position that the truth should always (or nearly always with few or no exceptions be told).
> 
> There is some misunderstanding in other responses. I fully understand that some people who have been cheated on want to know the full truth and others don't. Obviously you shouldn't get into things that they don't want to hear. I get that but my question is about how this camp feels about disclosing the truth when the partner asks. It's not all about the physical things. I suspect that when many people cheat and disclose it, it goes something like....
> 
> ...


So yea, let me take another stab at this... a prosecutor takes both as disinterest in the defendant while also vigorously drawing as many lines of questions possible (often inane ones so as to connect the dots). His/her job is to amass enough evidence so that a confession is unnecessary and even so when a confession is given the prosecutor still has to piece together everything. The one question (so this is where TV is screwy) prosecutors avoid, is the why did you do it question. It is a loaded question that can either be a home run or 9th inning two out bases loaded strike out, Ugh... 

A BS, while not exactly a prosecutor will no doubt ask a lot of question, but they are an interested party, they do want as a primary answer from everything that is thrown at them - Why? Often though most BS typically piece together things toward the big picture things rather than the inane connect every dot for prosecution (D). This latter does happen, but you see the result. 

Lets also look at yet another analogy from the WS point of view... you have an angry pitcher on the mound and he/she (BS) will throw a lot of change up pitches. And, this is not trickle truth, but sometime like a good batter you need to take rather than swing at everything. Your original lines of question like penis size, etc... that is a definitely a take, no sense swing at pitches like that... the WS will most certainly strike out, no good answer there. This is not lying, but it also does not provide information ultimately what is necessary.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Bride of Frank said:


> No Matt I disagree. What destroys the BS is that she had an affair in the first place. He's destroyed, whether he knows details or not. Actually he's destroyed even if he never finds out, which is the cruelest treatment of all. It's *too late* after the fact to say, "I'm not telling and that will protect him".
> 
> The only way BS can even hope to recover is to know what she hid from him.


I was speaking from my personal experience. My situation was, I will admit, vastly different to most other BS here, so maybe that's why my take on this is so different?:scratchhead:


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I was speaking from my personal experience. My situation was, I will admit, vastly different to most other BS here, so maybe that's why my take on this is so different?:scratchhead:


I think on the most important point which is, "the WS should disclose whatever the BS asks for", we are mostly all in agreement.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> I think on the most important point which is, "the WS should disclose whatever the BS asks for", we are mostly all in agreement.


Many people on TAM discovered their spouse's affair by accident or because their WS left clues, or made a confession.

My wife told me in advance that she was going to have an affair, so there was a shock of being told, rather than a shock of accidental discovery or guilt-fuelled revelation. 

Whilst that was bad enough, some stories of the shock of betrayal are heart-rending.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Many people on TAM discovered their spouse's affair by accident or because their WS left clues, or made a confession.
> 
> My wife told me in advance that she was going to have an affair, so there was a shock of being told, rather than a shock of accidental discovery or guilt-fuelled revelation.
> 
> Whilst that was bad enough, some stories of the shock of betrayal are heart-rending.


That would confuse the life out of me. Wow. I can't really comprehend what would make someone do it or how it would feel. geez.


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## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

I am with the must confess camp. I believe you should confess to the affiar, timeline, how much money spent, were there ILYs, did you plan on leaving, and finally WHY.

I do not want you to confess that she had bigger breasts, smaller waist, perkier butt or prettier.

I also want to know if you plan on staying or just want to leave.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> That would confuse the life out of me. Wow. I can't really comprehend what would make someone do it or how it would feel. geez.


She is a high functioning Asperger's (two or three doctorates, several degrees, etc) and can say and do some incredibly hurtful things. But cannot see beforehand how they'll hurt people. Though she is sad/upset when she sees the result. 

To understand how I felt, I'd had a heart scare a few years earlier. It wasn't a heart attack, but felt like it was one at the time. When my wife was having her affair,_* I actually wished I'd had a fatal heart attack, so I'd not been alive to be cheated on.*_


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## Torrivien (Aug 26, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> She is a high functioning Asperger's (two or three doctorates, several degrees, etc) and can say and do some incredibly hurtful things. But cannot see beforehand how they'll hurt people. Though she is sad/upset when she sees the result.
> 
> To understand how I felt, I'd had a heart scare a few years earlier. It wasn't a heart attack, but felt like it was one at the time. When my wife was having her affair,_* I actually wished I'd had a fatal heart attack, so I'd not been alive to be cheated on.*_


It's the first time that I get an insight on your story, it was really extremely harsh of her, Asperger or not. I am sorry she made you feel that way.
The good thing that it seems you came a long way out of there.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I believe that the truth should always be told. If you don't know the truth, then you can't make good decisions.

If the AP is much better in bed and the WS will forever be thinking of them - then tell me, so I can decide if I want to stay knowing that I'm second best.

If the AP is more attractive to the WS, and I'm forever not attractive, then tell me so I can decide if I'm willing to stay knowing that.

If the WS did X with the AP and won't do X with me because they don't feel I'm worth it, tell me so I can decided if I'm willing to stay knowing that.

The worst thing the WS can do is lie directly or by omission that they've returned to the marriage, when they have not fully returned.

Why? Because I want to know the truth, even if it is painful, when I decide what to do.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I believe that the truth should always be told. If you don't know the truth, then you can't make good decisions.
> 
> If the AP is much better in bed and the WS will forever be thinking of them - then tell me, so I can decide if I want to stay knowing that I'm second best.
> 
> ...


I feel like a broken record but I keep saying or thinking the same thing on so many unrelated posts. *"Knowledge is power"*.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

As far as I know the only time my ex wife ever told the truth to me in twenty years was when she handed me the papers along with the restraining order and clued me in on her cheating ways, whys and how longs.
I actually am comfortable with this since It made it obvious that there was absolutely no point in trying to salvage that which never existed in the first place.
I should think that nobody would want to try to reconcile if the issues have no solution.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> I feel like a broken record but I keep saying or thinking the same thing on so many unrelated posts. *"Knowledge is power"*.


As they say "The truth will set you free"


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Yes, knowledge is power. On both sides. Having the info too make decisions/plans is powerful. Withholding, pbscuring, and misrepresenting info gives the deceiver power over the deceived.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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