# Unemployed and unambitious husband



## FustratedinCA

Please help me figure this out. My husband is a good husband. We've been married for 10 years and no kids. He treats me well and helps out around the house. I've been supporting us financially through the majority of the marriage as he was employed for only two of those years. I make a good salary but want a husband with a career (or just a job) and at least some passion for something in life. He is currently looking for employment after having quit a retail job. He doesn't want to deal with customer services..and certain jobs are beneath him. When I ask about his job search, he gets annoyed and defensive.

I'm trying to be supportive but starting to run out of patience. I can't have a husband who sits at home. Is anyone going through this?


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## EunuchMonk

So he doesn't want to have sex with you and he doesn't want to work? Sounds like a do-nothing. What are his redeeming qualities again? I know you said he was a good husband but be specific.


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## Chris Taylor

I have to be honest with you. As someone who has hired a lot of people I'd be more than hesitant to hire a guy who has only worked 2 years out of the past 10 and quits jobs without another one to go to. It just shows irresponsibility.

You have three choices here:

1 - Suck it up and live with it. You may want to squeeze him financially (smaller allowance, etc...) but other than that it will be status quo.

2 - Convince him to get ANY job and just stay employed. My guess is if you haven't been able to do that in the past 10 years, you'll never do it.

3 - Divorce


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## FustratedinCA

EunuchMonk said:


> So he doesn't want to have sex with you and he doesn't want to work? Sounds like a do-nothing. What are his redeeming qualities again? I know you said he was a good husband but be specific.


He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, loves me...


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## FustratedinCA

Chris Taylor said:


> I have to be honest with you. As someone who has hired a lot of people I'd be more than hesitant to hire a guy who has only worked 2 years out of the past 10 and quits jobs without another one to go to. It just shows irresponsibility.
> 
> You have three choices here:
> 
> 1 - Suck it up and live with it. You may want to squeeze him financially (smaller allowance, etc...) but other than that it will be status quo.
> 
> 2 - Convince him to get ANY job and just stay employed. My guess is if you haven't been able to do that in the past 10 years, you'll never do it.
> 
> 3 - Divorce


THank you for your response. I think your advice is honest and true. I can't accept the status quo, know that he won't take any job (and keep it), and I feel shallow for getting a divorce over this. I feel that people get divorce because they fall out of love but not for a job...I still love him.


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## Steve1000

FustratedinCA said:


> THank you for your response. I think your advice is honest and true. I can't accept the status quo, know that he won't take any job (and keep it), and I feel shallow for getting a divorce over this. I feel that people get divorce because they fall out of love but not for a job...I still love him.


Stop asking him politely about his job search. You need to show him that you are about to your wits end and tell him sternly that you are no longer willing to be the only bread winner.


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## EunuchMonk

FustratedinCA said:


> He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, *loves me*...


The no-sex and no-job aren't loving. If you are into bible, there is a passage that says a man who doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel. Don't let the "infidel" word trigger you. The terrorists gave this word dark meaning. What it is saying, and I know the modernists/SJW/feminist/progressives will take issue with these traditional gender roles but a man should work! Even if you wife is a Rockefeller, as a man you should work.

Considering he doesn't work, he shouldn't be "helping" with the chores. He should be doing all of them!


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## FustratedinCA

Steve1000 said:


> Stop asking him politely about his job search. You need to show him that you are about to your wits end and tell him sternly that you are no longer willing to be the only bread winner.


Steve- I am at my wits end. We've had this discussion. I told him he has 6 months to figure it out.


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## Manchester

Went through it with my exwife. Going through it with her and probably will until the end of time.

If you think it's bad now just wait until you divorce him and have to pay him for being lazy and not working.


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## MJJEAN

FustratedinCA said:


> He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, loves me...


There are many men who would do all of the above AND maintain a job along with a healthy sex life. Your husband sounds more like a pet than a mate.


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## FustratedinCA

EunuchMonk said:


> The no-sex and no-job aren't loving. If you are into bible, there is a passage that says a man who doesn't provide for his family is worse than an infidel. Don't let the "infidel" word trigger you. The terrorists gave this word dark meaning. What it is saying, and I know the modernists/SJW/feminist/progressives will take issue with these traditional gender roles but a man should work! Even if you wife is a Rockefeller, as a man you should work.
> 
> Considering he doesn't work, he shouldn't be "helping" with the chores. He should be doing all of them!


But isn't love more than just sex and money? Chorus, he does a good amount. Help with laundry, load the dishes...I cook and do cleaning. Your comment does have a lot of merit. I need to process this


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## MJJEAN

FustratedinCA said:


> But isn't love more than just sex and money? Chorus, he does a good amount. Help with laundry, load the dishes...I cook and do cleaning. Your comment does have a lot of merit. I need to process this


Love is great, but marriage is about more than love. It's about partnership, mutual responsibility, and you must have compatibility in key areas. You aren't sexually compatible and he isn't a full partner accepting mutual responsibility if he's not pulling his own weight. And he's not. If you want a househusband with no sex drive, at least have him doing ALL of the chores, shopping, and errands while you're at work supporting him.

The difference between platonic love and romantic love is sex. You can be platonic friends with him without being married to and fully supporting him.

*Saying this as a SAHM for 20 years. While DH works, I do _everything_ else, including car repairs and yard work. I only ask for assistance when it's a two person job and one of the kids can't help.


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## EunuchMonk

FustratedinCA said:


> But isn't love more than just sex and money? Chorus, he does a good amount. Help with laundry, load the dishes...I cook and do cleaning. Your comment does have a lot of merit. I need to process this


Yes, love is more than sex and money. However, this is a marriage. Whether the Jerry McGuire crowd agrees with this or not, marriage is like a business contract. Each partner has an end to hold up. It seems to me, he would at least accommodate you in physical affection if not financial security if he wanted to show love.


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## Lostinthought61

i think you have gotten some really sound advice....and as to treating you well, that is wonderful but that is not the basis for a marriage. you can not carry the weight of a marriage and a family on your shoulders completely...he's too good to work in retail but not to good to have his wife support him....that is baloney. 

As the song goes....Nobody rides for free...nobody


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## Steve1000

FustratedinCA said:


> Steve- I am at my wits end. We've had this discussion. I told him he has 6 months to figure it out.


That's good. The difficult part will be to not cave in after six months. He might not fully realize how serious you are until he sees that you are serious from your actions. I noticed that you have another thread about his lack of sexual desire. Is he significantly overweight?


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## becareful2

Ask your husband point blank how long he thinks this marriage will last if he doesn't work and starves you of sex?


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## Chris Taylor

FustratedinCA said:


> Steve- I am at my wits end. We've had this discussion. I told him he has 6 months to figure it out.


So what are you going to do in six months that you haven't done in 10 years?

My suggestion is take those six months and start preparing for divorce. Separate credit cards, stash cash away, look at apartment rentals. When the end of the six months comes, he will either be working or you'll be prepared to leave, if you have the strength to.


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## ButtPunch

OP

You need to research the divorce laws in California.

10 years of marriage in California with him hardly working means you are on the hook
for some serious spousal support payments.

You might want to check out marriage counseling before you start writing him hefty checks every month.


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## EleGirl

FustratedinCA said:


> But isn't love more than just sex and money? Chorus, he does a good amount. Help with laundry, load the dishes...I cook and do cleaning. Your comment does have a lot of merit. I need to process this


How long have the two of you been married?

Do you have children? If so, how many?

How old are the two of you?

What do you call a 'good amount'? 

He 'helps' with the laundry and loads the dishes? You cook and of the cleaning? He's not working he should be doing 100% of all house and yard chores. The only thing that you should be doing are things that he cannot do in a full day's work at home chores. For example he should cook all meals. You can help with the after dinner clean up because you are both then off work.

If you work 8-10 hours a day to support your family, then he should be putting in 8-10 hours a day working at home.

Why do you call what he does 'help'. Household chores are not only your job. They are both of your respopnslibty. So he's not 'helping' you. He's doing what is his responsibility. He'd have to do it if he lived alone. And when he's not working, then he needs to do what a stay-at-home wife would do... just about everything.

Yes love is more than money and sex. In marriage love is mostly an equal partnership. By him leaving the bulk of household chores to you and leaving bread winning to you he is taking serious advantage of you and showing you gross disrespect. The message is that you are is slave for him to take advantage of. Thus providing him with a leisurely life that you cannot have because of his unilateral decision to take advantage of you. If he worked as many hours as you do, then the two of you could enjoy a lot of free time together... giving you a much easier life.

My bet is that the reason he does not want sex with you is because he sees you as his mother. You take care of just about everything for him... like his mommy. Guys don't have sex with their mother. Mothers are not sexy. Men also do not respect women (wives/girl-friends) who they put in the 'mother' position. Most people, men and women, don't like having sex with people who they do not respect.

What does he do with his spare time?

Your husband sounds a lot like a guy who I was married to.. .note the past tense.


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## FustratedinCA

Steve1000 said:


> That's good. The difficult part will be to not cave in after six months. He might not fully realize how serious you are until he sees that you are serious from your actions. I noticed that you have another thread about his lack of sexual desire. Is he significantly overweight?


No- he's quite the stud (now that he has time to go to the gym). healthy all around.


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## ButtPunch

FustratedinCA said:


> No- he's quite the stud (now that he has time to go to the gym). healthy all around.


lol.....I agree with Elegirl. 

He doesn't respect you.


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## FustratedinCA

EleGirl said:


> How long have the two of you been married?
> 
> Do you have children? If so, how many?
> 
> How old are the two of you?
> 
> What do you call a 'good amount'?
> 
> He 'helps' with the laundry and loads the dishes? You cook and of the cleaning? He's not working he should be doing 100% of all house and yard chores. The only thing that you should be doing are things that he cannot do in a full day's work at home chores. For example he should cook all meals. You can help with the after dinner clean up because you are both then off work.
> 
> If you work 8-10 hours a day to support your family, then he should be putting in 8-10 hours a day working at home.
> 
> Why do you call what he does 'help'. Household chores are not only your job. They are both of your respopnslibty. So he's not 'helping' you. He's doing what is his responsibility. He'd have to do it if he lived alone. And when he's not working, then he needs to do what a stay-at-home wife would do... just about everything.
> 
> Yes love is more than money and sex. In marriage love is mostly an equal partnership. By him leaving the bulk of household chores to you and leaving bread winning to you he is taking serious advantage of you and showing you gross disrespect. The message is that you are is slave for him to take advantage of. Thus providing him with a leisurely life that you cannot have because of his unilateral decision to take advantage of you. If he worked as many hours as you do, then the two of you could enjoy a lot of free time together... giving you a much easier life.
> 
> My bet is that the reason he does not want sex with you is because he sees you as his mother. You take care of just about everything for him... like his mommy. Guys don't have sex with their mother. Mothers are not sexy. Men also do not respect women (wives/girl-friends) who they put in the 'mother' position. Most people, men and women, don't like having sex with people who they do not respect.
> 
> What does he do with his spare time?
> 
> Your husband sounds a lot like a guy who I was married to.. .note the past tense.


wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. He doesn't beat me or cheats on me. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.

You're right, he does have a good life- nice dining, drinks and travel. I have a good salary, so he doesn't feel like he needs to contribute financially. But I want a husband who contributes and has passion in life- he doesn't have any passion for anything. 

I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.

I suppose you're right about mothering him. I'm really worried that when 6 months arrives and he doesn't have a job, i dont know what I'll have to courage to do. I have my first counselling session next week to help me think through this.

You guys have been very helpful. Please be nice to my husband. I don't think he's a bad guy


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## FustratedinCA

​


ButtPunch said:


> lol.....I agree with Elegirl.
> 
> He doesn't respect you.


I think he respects me.


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## FustratedinCA

ButtPunch said:


> OP
> 
> You need to research the divorce laws in California.
> 
> 10 years of marriage in California with him hardly working means you are on the hook
> for some serious spousal support payments.
> 
> You might want to check out marriage counseling before you start writing him hefty checks every month.


Ha- I'm so desperate right now. I'm happy to give him half of my paycheck for a few years to get some resolutions. Thinking out loud...I think it says a lot about the situation.


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## Manchester

It might not be a few years.

What if you have to give him half your paycheck for the rest of your life or until you retire?

Is it worth it THEN?


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## joannacroc

FustratedinCA said:


> wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. *He doesn't beat me or cheats on me*. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.
> 
> You're right, he does have a good life- nice dining, drinks and travel. I have a good salary, so he doesn't feel like he needs to contribute financially. But I want a husband who contributes and has passion in life- he doesn't have any passion for anything.
> 
> I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.
> 
> I suppose you're right about mothering him. I'm really worried that when 6 months arrives and he doesn't have a job, i dont know what I'll have to courage to do. I have my first counselling session next week to help me think through this.
> 
> You guys have been very helpful. Please be nice to my husband.* I don't think he's a bad guy*


If your deal-breakers are him beating you or cheating on you, you're not setting the bar very high in how you want to be treated by him. If that were good enough for you, you wouldn't be here, though. He hasn't been employed for the majority of your marriage and that would be fine, if he were doing the majority of the domestic chores but it sounds like he's NOT. I understand that you love him but I'm not seeing that his contribution is very high. If he is easily discouraged, thinks certain jobs are "beneath him" and doesn't seem motivated to get a job for the majority of your time together, is it possible he is suffering from depression? How is his demeanor usually? I

Have you been to marriage counseling? It really sounds like you could both benefit.


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## ButtPunch

FustratedinCA said:


> I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.


WHEW! Make sure you solve this before you hit 10 years.

That's when the Life time alimony can hit in CA.


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## FustratedinCA

Manchester said:


> It might not be a few years.
> 
> What if you have to give him half your paycheck for the rest of your life or until you retire?
> 
> Is it worth it THEN?


I hope the court isn't that messed up. But yea, I rather pay then stay in a miserable marriage. Money comes and go


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## Manchester

Money comes and goes but if you're paying half your income to an ex for the rest of your life it mostly goes!


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## FustratedinCA

joannacroc said:


> If your deal-breakers are him beating you or cheating on you, you're not setting the bar very high in how you want to be treated by him. If that were good enough for you, you wouldn't be here, though. He hasn't been employed for the majority of your marriage and that would be fine, if he were doing the majority of the domestic chores but it sounds like he's NOT. I understand that you love him but I'm not seeing that his contribution is very high. If he is easily discouraged, thinks certain jobs are "beneath him" and doesn't seem motivated to get a job for the majority of your time together, is it possible he is suffering from depression? How is his demeanor usually? I
> 
> Have you been to marriage counseling? It really sounds like you could both benefit.


I agree with you. Im starting counselling next week to learn more about myself and my needs in the marriage. Then I plan to invite him to couple's counselling.


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## FustratedinCA

Manchester said:


> Money comes and goes but if you're paying half your income to an ex for the rest of your life it mostly goes!


I'm not worried about my paycheck. He would walk with half of my asset. So money is only a small component of this and is the least on my priority list. I want a husband whom I respect and who wants me intimately. In hindsight, I should have been more firm about him getting a job from the start


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## Manchester

Well get a good lawyer if it comes to that because right now you think it doesn't matter you just want to be done.

I was that way and a few years later suddenly it hits you that you are stuck paying a lot of money to this person who you want nothing to do with.


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## Manchester

My ex was supposed to get a job. 

She didn't. Do you think that matters to the courts?

Evidently not.


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## Steve1000

FustratedinCA said:


> wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. He doesn't beat me or cheats on me. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.
> 
> You're right, he does have a good life- nice dining, drinks and travel. I have a good salary, so he doesn't feel like he needs to contribute financially. But I want a husband who contributes and has passion in life- he doesn't have any passion for anything.
> 
> I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.
> 
> I suppose you're right about mothering him. I'm really worried that when 6 months arrives and he doesn't have a job, i dont know what I'll have to courage to do. I have my first counselling session next week to help me think through this.
> 
> You guys have been very helpful. Please be nice to my husband. I don't think he's a bad guy


To establish that he is a nice guy, there needs to be some justification. The details that I have are that he doesn't want to have a job, he doesn't want to discuss the lack of sex between you two, and that he is fit and healthy. Making dinner "once in awhile" and "helps (you) with cleaning" is not a positive thing. He should be the one in charge of cleaning, grocery shopping, and cooking. There is a reason why you are at your wits end. 

You are being honest by saying that you don't know if you really have the courage to separate after the six-month deadline. Unfortunately, you need to do something or else he will never respect any future deadlines.


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## uhtred

He is not a bad guy, but he is not a good husband.

Money really isn't the issue - its that he is not putting in anything like the effort that you are in the marriage.

I have a female friend with a husband like this. He hasn't worked for >10 years (he is a *artist* - who never sells any art). He is selfish in bed. Her problem is that she has been married so long (30 years) that she can't bring herself to leave, even though she knows that she should. 




FustratedinCA said:


> wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. He doesn't beat me or cheats on me. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.
> 
> You're right, he does have a good life- nice dining, drinks and travel. I have a good salary, so he doesn't feel like he needs to contribute financially. But I want a husband who contributes and has passion in life- he doesn't have any passion for anything.
> 
> I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.
> 
> I suppose you're right about mothering him. I'm really worried that when 6 months arrives and he doesn't have a job, i dont know what I'll have to courage to do. I have my first counselling session next week to help me think through this.
> 
> You guys have been very helpful. Please be nice to my husband. I don't think he's a bad guy


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## uhtred

No amount of money makes up for an unhappy marriage. 




FustratedinCA said:


> I'm not worried about my paycheck. He would walk with half of my asset. So money is only a small component of this and is the least on my priority list. I want a husband whom I respect and who wants me intimately. In hindsight, I should have been more firm about him getting a job from the start


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## Steve1000

FustratedinCA said:


> I agree with you. Im starting counselling next week to learn more about myself and my needs in the marriage. Then I plan to invite him to couple's counselling.


I just saw this post. Couples counselling will, unfortunately, not help anything because he is currently not determined to try hard to improve your marriage. Marriage counselling is more effective for couples when both sincerely want to improve their relationship.


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## FustratedinCA

uhtred said:


> He is not a bad guy, but he is not a good husband.
> 
> Money really isn't the issue - its that he is not putting in anything like the effort that you are in the marriage.
> 
> I have a female friend with a husband like this. He hasn't worked for >10 years (he is a *artist* - who never sells any art). He is selfish in bed. Her problem is that she has been married so long (30 years) that she can't bring herself to leave, even though she knows that she should.


your friend and I are in a similar boat...unfortunately. If anything, this is helping me think things through. Perhaps this weekend can be used for another round of serious discussion. Marriage counselling is likely going to take place sooner rather than later. I was a bit apprehensive about starting this trial with the upcoming holiday season =(


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## GuyInColorado

This is why divorce exists! I divorced my wife due to no intimacy/love, and now she has to work full time to pay for the house she kept. 

You aren't having sex. Your H is broken. Find a new one. You have no kids, you have no idea how good you have it!!


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## FustratedinCA

Steve1000 said:


> To establish that he is a nice guy, there needs to be some justification. The details that I have are that he doesn't want to have a job, he doesn't want to discuss the lack of sex between you two, and that he is fit and healthy. Making dinner "once in awhile" and "helps (you) with cleaning" is not a positive thing. He should be the one in charge of cleaning, grocery shopping, and cooking. There is a reason why you are at your wits end.
> 
> You are being honest by saying that you don't know if you really have the courage to separate after the six-month deadline. Unfortunately, you need to do something or else he will never respect any future deadlines.


Here are his excuses/reasonings:

On cooking: he's not a good cook and I don't like his bland cooking anyways. If I marinate, he will cook it up. But usually, if i'm too tired to cook, we go out. It bothers me that he plays on the computer or watches tv when I'm doing the cooking after work. I cook us a hot breakfast every day... I get it. Writing this down does have a way of making it clear.

On the job: He did 1.5 years of retail work and decided he doesn't have the patience for customer service work. But he's not qualified for jobs that he wants. He's gone back to school three times, but quit for various reasons. I'm desperate for him to have something outside the house. He currently spends his time on the computer looking for work and applies to 1 job a week. He goes tot he gym 5x a week, which takes up half of the day.

On finance: I have a high salary, so he doesn't see the need to contribute.

On intimacy: He's working on it, but never wants it (from me at least). I always have to initiate. Most of the time, he complains that he is too bloated, has a headache, doesn't feel good, too tired. When we do have a session, it is quick and gets the job done. He does like cuddling, holding hands, spooning. 

On house chorus: We share this. He puts the clothing in the washer/dryer, I fold and iron. He loads the dishes, I unload. He helps with food prepping, I cook.

Nice things he does for me: He makes me coffee, pour me a drink at night, goes on walks with me, let me have the last piece of sweets, be supportive of my career, be protective of me, compliments the way I look, be understanding of my work commitment


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## FustratedinCA

GuyInColorado said:


> This is why divorce exists! I divorced my wife due to no intimacy/love, and now she has to work full time to pay for the house she kept.
> 
> You aren't having sex. Your H is broken. Find a new one. You have no kids, you have no idea how good you have it!!


Was there more than just intimacy that lead to the divorce?

I haven't wrapped my mind around a divorce and very hesitate to say the words. No one in my family has a divorce. I'm 30..don't people get divorce in their 40s?


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## Manchester

People get divorced at any age. dont not get divorced just because of a self imposed age limitation or your family doesn't get divorced so you won't. 

The longer you wait the more he gets in support and after a certain period you could, as am I, liable for lifetime support if you are in one of those states.

You should check.


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## Steve1000

FustratedinCA said:


> Here are his excuses/reasonings:
> 
> On cooking: he's not a good cook and I don't like his bland cooking anyways. If I marinate, he will cook it up. But usually, if i'm too tired to cook, we go out. It bothers me that he plays on the computer or watches tv when I'm doing the cooking after work. I cook us a hot breakfast every day... I get it. Writing this down does have a way of making it clear.
> 
> On the job: He did 1.5 years of retail work and decided he doesn't have the patience for customer service work. But he's not qualified for jobs that he wants. He's gone back to school three times, but quit for various reasons. I'm desperate for him to have something outside the house. He currently spends his time on the computer looking for work and applies to 1 job a week. He goes tot he gym 5x a week, which takes up half of the day.
> 
> On finance: I have a high salary, so he doesn't see the need to contribute.
> 
> On intimacy: He's working on it, but never wants it (from me at least). I always have to initiate. Most of the time, he complains that he is too bloated, has a headache, doesn't feel good, too tired. When we do have a session, it is quick and gets the job done. He does like cuddling, holding hands, spooning.
> 
> On house chorus: We share this. He puts the clothing in the washer/dryer, I fold and iron. He loads the dishes, I unload. He helps with food prepping, I cook.
> 
> Nice things he does for me: He makes me coffee, pour me a drink at night, goes on walks with me, let me have the last piece of sweets, be supportive of my career, be protective of me, compliments the way I look, be understanding of my work commitment


Your very detailed description helped to give a clearer picture. I assume that he does not have a bad temper and that he is generally laid back. My impression is that he is simply a lazy person and was given a long-term opportunity to not have to work. At this point in his life with no real job skills, it will be really difficult to light a fire under him. After six months, if you have the financial means, you might want to rent an apartment for six months as a trial separation. Give him another six months apart from you to find and keep a job. 

You still love him, but if you continue like this, I think that you'll eventually resent him.


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## FustratedinCA

Steve1000 said:


> Your very detailed description helped to give a clearer picture. I assume that he does not have a bad temper and that he is generally laid back. My impression is that he is simply a lazy person and was given a long-term opportunity to not have to work. At this point in his life with no real job skills, it will be really difficult to light a fire under him. After six months, if you have the financial means, you might want to rent an apartment for six months as a trial separation. Give him another six months apart from you to find and keep a job.
> 
> You still love him, but if you continue like this, I think that you'll eventually resent him.


Steve! You are wonderful. I think you've nailed the description of where he is. I think your proposal is sensible. I will digest that this weekend. Thank you.


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## EleGirl

FustratedinCA said:


> wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. He doesn't beat me or cheats on me. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.


Of course he is supportive of your career and understanding of your work obligations. If he were not, he'd have to get a job and support at least himself. He's clearly not a stupid man. He does the very least that he as to so that you keep supporting him and his easy life style.



FustratedinCA said:


> You're right, he does have a good life- nice dining, drinks and travel. I have a good salary, so he doesn't feel like he needs to contribute financially. But I want a husband who contributes and has passion in life- he doesn't have any passion for anything.


Passion for life is an important issue. Besides a bit of housework and going to the gym, what else does he do with his time? How does he spend his days?



FustratedinCA said:


> I am 30. He is 39. No kids. Married 6 years, together 10.


Good thing that you do not have children with him. It's a lot harder dealing with a basically non-contributing spouse when there are children involved. Been there, done that.



FustratedinCA said:


> I suppose you're right about mothering him.


You take care of almost everything in his life so that he does not have to lift a finger. You are enabling his lack of participation in life. You might want to get the book Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself


Co-Dependency is when you put the needs/wants of another adult person ahead of your own to the point that it's harming you.



FustratedinCA said:


> I'm really worried that when 6 months arrives and he doesn't have a job, i dont know what I'll have to courage to do. I have my first counselling session next week to help me think through this.


I'm glad that you are in counseling. From experience it takes a lot of strength to stand up to this type of situation and to leave/divorce if it comes to that. Since you told him that he has 6 months, you have to leave him if he does not have a job in 6 months. If you don't, he will never believe anything you tell him in the future.

There are things that you can do now. What things of his do you finance? Do you pay for his gym membership? Does he have a car? Do you pay for that? Does he have access to joint bank accounts? You need to start making life a bit hard for him. He can get a job working at some convenience store or fast food place if he wants those kinds of luxuries. He can work there until he finds a job that he feels is good enough for him.

What kind of education does he have? What are his job skills?





FustratedinCA said:


> You guys have been very helpful. Please be nice to my husband. I don't think he's a bad guy


While we might be harsh about him, we are not being mean or think he's a bad guy. I think of him more as a guy who has lost his way and who does not have the pressures that most people have that compel them to work a job... you know that if we don't, we are on the street.

Like you said you want someone who has some passion for life. What kind of things does he have passion for?


----------



## Manchester

You don't think he's a bad guy.

Come here and post his description after you separate or file for divorce.

Guarantee it won't be the same.


----------



## EleGirl

FustratedinCA said:


> I'm not worried about my paycheck. He would walk with half of my asset. So money is only a small component of this and is the least on my priority list. I want a husband whom I respect and who wants me intimately. In hindsight, I should have been more firm about him getting a job from the start


In California, you could end up paying him 30% to 40% of your income FOR LIFE if he does not start working. I have no doubt that at some point, you having to give him that much money for the rest of your life will become a HUGE issue.

I was in the same situation with my second husband, the one who was a lot like yours. I too am pretty high income and was concerned about alimony. Though I live in NM, so alimony is not as big an issue here as it is in Cali.

So what I did was to help you develop a business. I had to invest a few thousand to get him started, but he now supports himself.

It's actually something that your husband could probably do, so if you are interested in trying this send me a PM. It's not any kind of marketing or pyramid scheme, nothing that I would make money off your husband doing. Just so that you don't think I'm selling something like that.


----------



## EleGirl

FustratedinCA said:


> your friend and I are in a similar boat...unfortunately. If anything, this is helping me think things through. Perhaps this weekend can be used for another round of serious discussion. Marriage counselling is likely going to take place sooner rather than later. I was a bit apprehensive about starting this trial with the upcoming holiday season =(


I thought that you gave him a 6 month window to find a job. When is that period over? Wouldn't it make sense to not separate until that period is over?

You also need to see a lawyer about all this before you separate. He could file for divorce the moment you move out and get life-long alimony in Cali. You really need to get him working and earning some income.


----------



## EleGirl

FustratedinCA said:


> ​
> I think he respects me.


I don't think he respects you in the way that a man should respect his wife.

At one point I took my husband to a psychiatrist because I felt that someone who is so lacking in passion for life that he plays on the computer all day instead of working, lacked passion in other things, did not want sex had some serious emotional and/or mental health issues.

After listening to both of us talk, the psychiatrist looked at my husband and said to him:

"I can see why you are married to her. But I have no clue why she's still married to you."

The psychiatrist also told my husband that what he was doing, his refusal to get a job, his refusal to take care of the home since he was not working a job, his refusal to take care of his own children and putting all that on me is a form of very serious emotion abuse. He advised me to start looking at a way to take better care of myself and that I needed to consider divorce.

He also diagnosed my husband with ADD, OCD and serious depression. Put him on meds. The only thing that the meds changed, sadly, were that he was a lot more content and was able to concentrate even more deeply on his computer games and web surfing. He stopped going to individual counseling. That's when I was done. It's one thing for a person to have a problem. It's quite another for that person to refuse to fix the problem when they are given all the help and support needed to fix it.


----------



## 225985

FustratedinCA said:


> He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, loves me...




He should not "help out" with the chores. They should be his job to do 100% of them. 


Sent from my iPhone the airport.


----------



## 225985

FustratedinCA said:


> No- he's quite the stud (now that he has time to go to the gym). healthy all around.




He would still have tome for gym even if he worked.....just like everyone else. 

So who is he dating at the gym? That would explain his lack of desire for sex with you and unwillingness to work. 

He has it really good. 


Sent from my iPhone the airport.


----------



## uhtred

Sadly things just get more difficult with time. I had a long discussion with this friend. She and her husband were going on vacation in Hawaii. My comment was that this was a perfect opportunity to see how good things could get. Relaxing vacation, no stress, lots of free time for romance and intimacy. So she agreed that if they didn't have a good time together she would divorce him. They barely talked during the vacation, he did FB and games, she went out by herself. But - that was a year ago and she is giving him more chances. 

I know how hard it is to leave. It doesn't get easier. 




FustratedinCA said:


> your friend and I are in a similar boat...unfortunately. If anything, this is helping me think things through. Perhaps this weekend can be used for another round of serious discussion. Marriage counselling is likely going to take place sooner rather than later. I was a bit apprehensive about starting this trial with the upcoming holiday season =(


----------



## uhtred

The thing is, I do all that for my wife, AND I have a full time job. 

He needs to find a job - not just for your sake, but for his. Since you are not short on money, he should look for jobs that are meaningful, not just that have high pay.

He can spend his time on useful volunteer work. It gives him a sense of value, and is also a good place to make contacts. 

If he is at home so much, he can learn a new skill. Learn python, or web design, or windows administration. He can learn to cook - its not magic, read, try, learn. 



His behavior wrt sex is very much like my wife's and it typical for a LD person. Even if he gets a job, this may be enough reason to leave the marriage. Life without passion is missing something really important. 








FustratedinCA said:


> Here are his excuses/reasonings:
> 
> On cooking: he's not a good cook and I don't like his bland cooking anyways. If I marinate, he will cook it up. But usually, if i'm too tired to cook, we go out. It bothers me that he plays on the computer or watches tv when I'm doing the cooking after work. I cook us a hot breakfast every day... I get it. Writing this down does have a way of making it clear.
> 
> On the job: He did 1.5 years of retail work and decided he doesn't have the patience for customer service work. But he's not qualified for jobs that he wants. He's gone back to school three times, but quit for various reasons. I'm desperate for him to have something outside the house. He currently spends his time on the computer looking for work and applies to 1 job a week. He goes tot he gym 5x a week, which takes up half of the day.
> 
> On finance: I have a high salary, so he doesn't see the need to contribute.
> 
> On intimacy: He's working on it, but never wants it (from me at least). I always have to initiate. Most of the time, he complains that he is too bloated, has a headache, doesn't feel good, too tired. When we do have a session, it is quick and gets the job done. He does like cuddling, holding hands, spooning.
> 
> On house chorus: We share this. He puts the clothing in the washer/dryer, I fold and iron. He loads the dishes, I unload. He helps with food prepping, I cook.
> 
> Nice things he does for me: He makes me coffee, pour me a drink at night, goes on walks with me, let me have the last piece of sweets, be supportive of my career, be protective of me, compliments the way I look, be understanding of my work commitment


----------



## Manchester

EleGirl said:


> The only thing that the meds changed, sadly, were that he was a lot more content and was able to concentrate even more deeply on his computer games and web surfing. He stopped going to individual counseling. That's when I was done. It's one thing for a person to have a problem. It's quite another for that person to refuse to fix the problem when they are given all the help and support needed to fix it.


A different medication may have helped its too bad he got the wrong effect from it just imagine if he got better how different your life could be.


----------



## Mr.StrongMan

FustratedinCA said:


> Please help me figure this out. My husband is a good husband. We've been married for 10 years and no kids. He treats me well and helps out around the house. I've been supporting us financially through the majority of the marriage as he was employed for only two of those years. I make a good salary but want a husband with a career (or just a job) and at least some passion for something in life. He is currently looking for employment after having quit a retail job. He doesn't want to deal with customer services..and certain jobs are beneath him. When I ask about his job search, he gets annoyed and defensive.
> 
> I'm trying to be supportive but starting to run out of patience. I can't have a husband who sits at home. Is anyone going through this?


I am a husband who has been unemployed and supported by his wife's high salary. I understand the feeling of shame, confusion, anger and frustration, when dealing with unemployment. I really don't know how to reply to your statement. All I know, is, your husband probably is going through stages of coming to terms with his unemployment. Like any other crisis perhaps you don't truly understand his internal struggle with this life situation. Maybe his wheels are spinning on what to do next. Or maybe he is still stuck in the depression stage of his loss and has to come out of that. You can't think straight when you are depressed. Perhaps when he exists the depression state and enters the anger state, that anger will catapult him using his anger in a constructive way to take action and take on a new career.


----------



## Manchester

kindMe77 said:


> I am a husband who has been unemployed and supported by his wife's high salary. I understand the feeling of shame, confusion, anger and frustration, when dealing with unemployment.


Why do only guys feel this way when they don't work?

For the entire term of our failed marriage my exwife never worked. She was happy, satisfied, able to do whatever she wanted, guilt free all because she had someone to support her.

Now that we're divorced I will pay her forever and she is with a new guy who works and she still doesn't work.

Is it a gender thing? Are all women like this I wonder? My experiences tell me YES.


----------



## Mr.StrongMan

Manchester said:


> Why do only guys feel this way when they don't work?
> 
> For the entire term of our failed marriage my exwife never worked. She was happy, satisfied, able to do whatever she wanted, guilt free all because she had someone to support her.
> 
> Now that we're divorced I will pay her forever and she is with a new guy who works and she still doesn't work.
> 
> Is it a gender thing? Are all women like this I wonder? My experiences tell me YES.


Throughout most of history women did not work. They stayed home and raised the children and took care of the house. THIS IS HARDER WORK THAT GOING OUT AND MAKING A LIVING if you ask me. It's non stop work. Society was not always like it is today with women in the workplace. Things have changed.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## MJJEAN

@kindMe77 and @Manchester

This man hasn't worked BY CHOICE for approximately 8 of the last 10 YEARS. That is quite a different sitaution than a man who has lost his career due to circumstances. He isn't doing very much at home, bare minimum re: chores and below the bare minimum re: the relationship. OP clearly stated this "man" isn't even looking for work (one application a week on average) and spends most of his time "at the gym" while she works.


----------



## Manchester

If he was a she I'd swear you're talking about my exwife.

Serious.


----------



## Mr.StrongMan

MJJEAN said:


> @kindMe77 and @Manchester
> 
> This man hasn't worked BY CHOICE for approximately 8 of the last 10 YEARS. That is quite a different sitaution than a man who has lost his career due to circumstances. He isn't doing very much at home, bare minimum re: chores and below the bare minimum re: the relationship. OP clearly stated this "man" isn't even looking for work (one application a week on average) and spends most of his time "at the gym" while she works.


MJJEAN thanks for clarifying that. I really have to read more carefully.


----------



## Manchester

Me too. What he said.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## Manchester

notmyrealname4 said:


> He starts volunteering a few times a month.
> 
> And he starts at least having sex once a week.


It only counts if it's with her!


----------



## MEM2020

Frustrated,

Everyone has a baseline level of ambition. You cannot change that. All you can do is create a lot of friction fighting about it.

He knows that the lack of sex and financial contribution are both hurting you. He's ok with that.





FustratedinCA said:


> Please help me figure this out. My husband is a good husband. We've been married for 10 years and no kids. He treats me well and helps out around the house. I've been supporting us financially through the majority of the marriage as he was employed for only two of those years. I make a good salary but want a husband with a career (or just a job) and at least some passion for something in life. He is currently looking for employment after having quit a retail job. He doesn't want to deal with customer services..and certain jobs are beneath him. When I ask about his job search, he gets annoyed and defensive.
> 
> I'm trying to be supportive but starting to run out of patience. I can't have a husband who sits at home. Is anyone going through this?


----------



## MJJEAN

OP's husband is more like a trophy wife. He got him a sugar momma to pay his bills and all she requires him to do is the absolute bare minimum. He gets to flitter around all day, go to the gym, do a little here and there, and someone else will pay his bills for him. Heck, he doesn't even have to put out but once every month or so. It sounds like a marriage of (his) convenience.

Frankly, I wonder exactly how terrible OP's previous relationships were that she considers this guy a catch and wants to keep him around. I couldn't imagine wanting to come home every day to a pretty boy who doesn't want to have regular mind blowing sex with me AND who can't/won't keep a job while doing hardly anything around the house or in the community.

One of my favorite posters on another forum I frequent is a SAHD who has 5 children he homeschools. He and his wife decided it would make more sense for him to stay home than for her to do it because she had a higher income. He does the childcare, the schooling, the household chores, the errands, and the yard work as well as handles their social calendar. I have no argument against a man staying home, but he better be doing something productive with his time.


----------



## MJJEAN

Manchester said:


> It only counts if it's with her!


Yeah. If I were married to a gym rat who didn't want to fvck me silly nightly, I'd be seriously suspicious of an affair with another woman or maybe even another man.


----------



## EleGirl

Manchester said:


> A different medication may have helped its too bad he got the wrong effect from it just imagine if he got better how different your life could be.


He had the medication he needed to get better. But he had to CHOOSE to DO BETTER. That's the point. 

He did not have these problems when I married him. He had been working for almost 2 decades, supported his ex-wife and children until their divorce. He chose to spend his life playing on the computer and doing nothing else. Doing that caused his mental health problems. He had the choice, once on medication to use them as a tool to stop playing computer games, using porn and surfing the web. But he chose to not do the right thing. 

It was not until I divorced him and told him that I refused to support him that he started working again... and even then I had to put out the money to help him start a business because after 10 years of not working, no one would hire him. 

For people who suffer form issues like depression, ADD, bi-polar... doing the right things, vs the wrong thing is a CHOICE. The meds don't make the choice, they make it easier to make the right choice. But it's still up to the person to choose to change their life.


----------



## EleGirl

Manchester said:


> Why do only guys feel this way when they don't work?
> 
> For the entire term of our failed marriage my exwife never worked. She was happy, satisfied, able to do whatever she wanted, guilt free all because she had someone to support her.
> 
> Now that we're divorced I will pay her forever and she is with a new guy who works and she still doesn't work.
> 
> Is it a gender thing? Are all women like this I wonder? My experiences tell me YES.



I don’t want to hijack the OP’s thread here. So I’ll give you the short answer. No all women are not like your wife. If a woman has developed a career, she can have the same bad reaction to not working as a man does. If she’s been the breadwinner her entire life (as I have), she definitely can react badly to unemployment.

Some women have taken on a more traditional role like your wife. Their “employment” is being a traditional wife and mother. Take that away from them and they will fall apart.


----------



## CuriousBlue

Marriage is a two-person (usually) enterprise. Each has to do what is needed for both to survive. Each has to chip in, with whatever needs to be done, be it work outside or inside of the house. 

Maybe more important than that, if he knows it makes you unhappy, he should do something to fix that situation, even if he doesn't really want to. He should want to because he should want you to be happy.


----------



## FustratedinCA

notmyrealname4 said:


> Let's say he picked up the slack at home and started keeping the house and yard together.
> 
> He learns how to cook.
> 
> He starts volunteering a few times a month.
> 
> And he starts at least having sex once a week.
> 
> Would that be okay with you @FustratedinCA
> 
> 
> ==================================
> 
> I'm hoping this thread isn't turning into "men who stay at home are bums".
> 
> *This* guy has hit the skids and, quite frankly, sounds depressed to me.
> 
> But, I think we can agree that there is nothing wrong with the concept of a man staying at home IF his wife makes enough money for them to be comfortable. Right?


Hi Notmyrealnam. 
It would be great. Ideally, I would like him to bring in some sort of an income. Even at $20K a year. He is college educated and should be able to find employment.


----------



## FustratedinCA

CuriousBlue said:


> Marriage is a two-person (usually) enterprise. Each has to do what is needed for both to survive. Each has to chip in, with whatever needs to be done, be it work outside or inside of the house.
> 
> Maybe more important than that, if he knows it makes you unhappy, he should do something to fix that situation, even if he doesn't really want to. He should want to because he should want you to be happy.


CuriousBlue- Thank you for this reminder. He is making some effort. I did ask him to pick me up some flowers and he did. I've asked him to start wearing his wedding ring and he did during dinner last night. He hates the feel of wearing a ring- so he has never wear one during our marriage. He does get mad when I don't wear mine. He's getting better with that.

He is looking for work though I'm being patient that he has only applied for two jobs in the last two weeks. I've cut back on asking for a daily update on his job application status because each time I ask, he gets defensive and passive aggressive.


----------



## Shiksa

Unfortunately it sounds like you have a parent/child dynamic. This does not work in a marriage. You shouldn't have to tell him to buy you flowers or check up on him about job applications. He sounds like a man child. Without MC I don't think this can be changed.


----------



## FustratedinCA

kindMe77 said:


> I am a husband who has been unemployed and supported by his wife's high salary. I understand the feeling of shame, confusion, anger and frustration, when dealing with unemployment. I really don't know how to reply to your statement. All I know, is, your husband probably is going through stages of coming to terms with his unemployment. Like any other crisis perhaps you don't truly understand his internal struggle with this life situation. Maybe his wheels are spinning on what to do next. Or maybe he is still stuck in the depression stage of his loss and has to come out of that. You can't think straight when you are depressed. Perhaps when he exists the depression state and enters the anger state, that anger will catapult him using his anger in a constructive way to take action and take on a new career.


Kindme77- how long does this depression stage last. He stopped working in 2006 for the exception of a few years. He doesn't seem depressed as he laughs often, enjoys our leisure travel, outings and such. I've asked him to talk to someone about it and he said it wouldn't help. What helped you? Maybe I can try for it as well. Thank you


----------



## FustratedinCA

MJjean-your summary of the current situtation is true. He say that he would apply for more than 1 job a week but there isn't much available that is a fit. I see "for hire" signs during our outtings but he said that those jobs doesn't fit his personality.

If I lost my job, I would have to go pickup a temporary job to make ends meet for us. This has happened during the past. I had forgotten that I had to waitress at night to help us finance a car purchase while he stayed at home. This memory makes me sad as everyone here is making it apparent that I am the dumb one here.


----------



## FustratedinCA

Shiksa said:


> Unfortunately it sounds like you have a parent/child dynamic. This does not work in a marriage. You shouldn't have to tell him to buy you flowers or check up on him about job applications. He sounds like a man child. Without MC I don't think this can be changed.


He say he's not the romantic type. So I figured, since he's not a mind reader and I don't want to be disappointed, it is better that I ask him.


----------



## 225985

FustratedinCA said:


> CuriousBlue- Thank you for this reminder. He is making some effort. I did ask him to pick me up some flowers and he did. I've asked him to start wearing his wedding ring and he did during dinner last night. He hates the feel of wearing a ring- so he has never wear one during our marriage. He does get mad when I don't wear mine. He's getting better with that.
> 
> He is looking for work though I'm being patient that he has only applied for two jobs in the last two weeks. I've cut back on asking for a daily update on his job application status because each time I ask, he gets defensive and passive aggressive.


FCA, We are quick here to normally say a spouse is cheating, but C'mon, look at all the clues and tell me these are NOT the signs of a cheating spouse?

1) Spends all his time at the gym, instead of looking for work. That gives him free time to spend with his other woman.
2) Won't have sex with you. He is getting it elsewhere.
3) Does not carry his weight in the marriage. Won't do the chores. He does not care about you.
4) Won't wear his wedding ring. It is harder to date other women when you do that.
5) He gets mad when you don't wear yours. He does not want to lose his good life. 

He picks up flowers when you ask him? Wow, such a great guy.

I have my own problems and that is why I am here. IMO your problem is not your husband but your problem is you. Why do you put up with this? Why do you think you don't deserve a much better partner. You do. You will never change him, whether he is faithful or cheating. You can only change you and your reaction to him.

You deserve better. :|

BTW, if he is not cheating, then he see you only as a paycheck. I am sorry.


----------



## FustratedinCA

blueinbr said:


> FCA, We are quick here to normally say a spouse is cheating, but C'mon, look at all the clues and tell me these are NOT the signs of a cheating spouse?
> 
> 1) Spends all his time at the gym, instead of looking for work. That gives him free time to spend with his other woman.
> 2) Won't have sex with you. He is getting it elsewhere.
> 3) Does not carry his weight in the marriage. Won't do the chores. He does not care about you.
> 4) Won't wear his wedding ring. It is harder to date other women when you do that.
> 5) He gets mad when you don't wear yours. He does not want to lose his good life.
> 
> He picks up flowers when you ask him? Wow, such a great guy.
> 
> I have my own problems and that is why I am here. IMO your problem is not your husband but your problem is you. Why do you put up with this? Why do you think you don't deserve a much better partner. You do. You will never change him, whether he is faithful or cheating. You can only change you and your reaction to him.
> 
> You deserve better. :|
> 
> BTW, if he is not cheating, then he see you only as a paycheck. I am sorry.


BlueinBR-
Thank you for taking time to compile your thoughts. I do see all the circumstantial conditions that may lead people to think my husband is cheating on me, but I have a hard time believing it. I feel so strongly about this that it would destroy me if there is someone else. 

I think you're right, I need to reassess my role in this marriage and my next steps. I agree that I am starving for his attention. I am talking less and paying more attention to his actions. I came to the conclusion that it is not that he has a low sex drive but it is more likely that he isn't into me. For example, he would hang out with my other girl friends and I see how he gets lighted up and talks louder and more. So I see that there is interest in female interactions. So it makes me think: what is it about me that he finds undesirable? Perhaps it is me playing the caregiver role which I am ready to let go.

What pains me the most is the idea of a separation. I've been with him since I was 19/20...I don't know a life without him.


----------



## Legend

"For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat." 2 Thessalonians 3:10

"But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, especially for members of his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." 1 Timothy 5:8

He needs to work 2 full-time jobs for the next 8 years to give you the 8 year break you deserve for carrying his lazy a$$ that long.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

FustratedinCA said:


> He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, loves me...


Let me get this straight.

He hasn't worked for basically 8 LONG years out of the 10 years you've been with him, and he '*helps out*' with the housework?

So you work full time AND do the housework while this lazy ass "helps out?"

Why would you settle for being with someone so completely worthless?


----------



## Mr.StrongMan

FustratedinCA said:


> Kindme77- how long does this depression stage last. He stopped working in 2006 for the exception of a few years. He doesn't seem depressed as he laughs often, enjoys our leisure travel, outings and such. I've asked him to talk to someone about it and he said it wouldn't help. What helped you? Maybe I can try for it as well. Thank you


For me, I have struggled with depression for as far back as I can remember. Even as a teenager and child I felt depressed. I went through therapy and even meds. Looking back I can honestly say the meds never did any good. Personally, for me, I found that being diagnosed with sleep apnea and using a cpap machine helped the most. I was not getting enough sleep! I now believe that since I stopped breathing at nights, that was effecting my brain and thus, my brain function. I can't say that's what your husband is going through. I am only speaking for myself. After using the cpap machine I feel much better during the days. I still do get depressed but I can think clearer now.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

MJJEAN said:


> Yeah. If I were married to a gym rat who didn't want to fvck me silly nightly, I'd be seriously suspicious of an affair with another woman or maybe even another man.


Yup.

I think the OP has blinders on. Romeo's been having himself quite the time at the 'gym.' But any so-called man who actually uses the excuse that he's "too bloated" to have sex with his wife (the OP said he *actually* uses that as an excuse!) makes you seriously wonder which team he's actually playing on.


----------



## Starstarfish

> Throughout most of history women did not work. They stayed home and raised the children and took care of the house.


Not working for hourly or salaried wage labor does not = not working. Historically women did work in the home that supplemented the family income (weaving, herb-work, dairy work, etc) or they worked with their husband's business or helped on the farm. The concept of the home not being in and of itself a source for making money can after industrialization. So no for most of history women did work, just not in the way we are used to imagining.


----------



## southbound

FustratedinCA said:


> But isn't love more than just sex and money? Chorus, he does a good amount. Help with laundry, load the dishes...I cook and do cleaning. Your comment does have a lot of merit. I need to process this
> 
> wow...this is intense. When I say he's a good husband, I mean he is supportive of my career and life. He doesn't beat me or cheats on me. He is understanding of my work obligations. He makes dinner once in a while.


It amazes me as to how people in relationships think so differently. When I was married, I had a good career, cooked, cleaned house, did all the laundry, changed way more diapers and got up in the night with a bottle far more times than she, would've had sex anytime she needed it, I didn't beat her or cheat on her, I was supportive of issues and her job, yet she still came to the conclusion that the grass was greener somewhere else and got divorced.


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## MJJEAN

FustratedinCA said:


> MJjean-your summary of the current situtation is true. He say that he would apply for more than 1 job a week but there isn't much available that is a fit. I see "for hire" signs during our outtings but he said that those jobs doesn't fit his personality.
> 
> If I lost my job, I would have to go pickup a temporary job to make ends meet for us. This has happened during the past. *I had forgotten that I had to waitress at night to help us finance a car purchase while he stayed at home*. This memory makes me sad as everyone here is making it apparent that I am the dumb one here.


I have been a SAHM since our we married. When we started having financial trouble, I got a job at a fast food restaurant. Flexible hours and close to home. Minimum wage, but the job wasn't that difficult and just like what I was doing at home for free (cooking and cleaning). I worked there for about 6 months, part time after DH got off work so he could take the kids, and then I was able to quit. Years later, things got tight and I got a job cleaning offices at night for minimum wage. Again, basically the same thing I was doing at home for free, lol. You do what you gotta do.

Unless we had a child with special needs or that was very ill I HAD to be at home 24/7, I couldn't imagine letting my husband work TWO jobs to pay for a car.

I know you've been with him all of your adult life and the idea of him cheating would be devastating, but many of the signs are there and I think you should investigate the possibility. 

Don't rule out cheating with men. I know it is a shocking idea, but the human brain isn't even fully developed until about age 25. If you are the same age or close, perhaps he didn't know or accept his true sexuality until AFTER it was too late and he'd made a life with you. It happens. Could be he lights up around female friends because he's sexually attracted to them or it could be he lights up because he's found his tribe.

Honestly, you never found not wearing his ring, spending a lot of time at the gym, and being near sexless with you suspicious?

Maybe you've been accepting the situation because he is all you've known and you don't understand how a fully functioning romantic life partnership is so much more than what you're getting.


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## FustratedinCA

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yup.
> 
> I think the OP has blinders on. Romeo's been having himself quite the time at the 'gym.' But any so-called man who actually uses the excuse that he's "too bloated" to have sex with his wife (the OP said he *actually* uses that as an excuse!) makes you seriously wonder which team he's actually playing on.


Wait..what???? being bloated is not a good excuse for not having sex? To the men in the room, is this true???


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## FustratedinCA

MJJEAN said:


> I have been a SAHM since our we married. When we started having financial trouble, I got a job at a fast food restaurant. Flexible hours and close to home. Minimum wage, but the job wasn't that difficult and just like what I was doing at home for free (cooking and cleaning). I worked there for about 6 months, part time after DH got off work so he could take the kids, and then I was able to quit. Years later, things got tight and I got a job cleaning offices at night for minimum wage. Again, basically the same thing I was doing at home for free, lol. You do what you gotta do.
> 
> Unless we had a child with special needs or that was very ill I HAD to be at home 24/7, I couldn't imagine letting my husband work TWO jobs to pay for a car.
> 
> I know you've been with him all of your adult life and the idea of him cheating would be devastating, but many of the signs are there and I think you should investigate the possibility.
> 
> Don't rule out cheating with men. I know it is a shocking idea, but the human brain isn't even fully developed until about age 25. If you are the same age or close, perhaps he didn't know or accept his true sexuality until AFTER it was too late and he'd made a life with you. It happens. Could be he lights up around female friends because he's sexually attracted to them or it could be he lights up because he's found his tribe.
> 
> Honestly, you never found not wearing his ring, spending a lot of time at the gym, and being near sexless with you suspicious?
> 
> Maybe you've been accepting the situation because he is all you've known and you don't understand how a fully functioning romantic life partnership is so much more than what you're getting.


How do I investigate? I've looked at his online search record and there's isn't much?


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## NobodySpecial

FustratedinCA said:


> He treats me well, helps out with the chorus around the house, protective of me, loves me...


Wait. You work. He doesn't. Why is he "helping out" with the chores? Why isn't he DOING the chores. Like all of them. What does he do all day? How about. Ok, dear, I guess working is not your thing. I will lay off you about that. But in return I expect you to take care of the house, yard and pretty much everything but bills. I am guessing you want him no where near those.


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## NobodySpecial

I guess I missed a few pages. Not surprised by the development.


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## MJJEAN

FustratedinCA said:


> How do I investigate? I've looked at his online search record and there's isn't much?


Somewhere there is a standard evidence thread, but I am not on my laptop and my tablet sucks, so I'm not going to try to link it. I'm sure some kind soul will.

Do some research into evidence gathering and software options away from home so he doesn't know. You do NOT want to tip him off that you are suspicious because then he will either stop or go to greater lengths to hide his activities.

You basically want to start off with keyloggers at home and on his phone It might take some...ummm..ingenuity, but I'm sure you can find a way to install such without him knowing.

Second basic evidence gathering device is a VAR. Voice Activated Recorder. You can find them online at at major retailers such as Best Buy and Wal-Mart. Ge the lithium battery, if I'm not mistaken. If the one you pick beeps when going on and off, you can snip the end off of some old headphones or get a cheap set you don't mind sacrificing, and plug it into the headphone jack to muffle the beep. Hide one in his car ( under the seat w velcro or maybe under the dash) and another in the room he spends most of his time in when talking on the phone or going online. Periodically check the recordings to see what he's been up to. If he's been playing around, eventually he will talk about it via phone or Skype/Facetime/Whatever and you'll catch it.

Some will tell you that "snooping" is a violation of trust and privacy. I am not in their camp. I believe that a spouse with cause to investigate, should. You have plenty of cause.


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## uhtred

I can only speak for myself. I'd say that its only a couple percent of the time that I would turn down sex, even if I had an active sex life. 

If I'm sick (like the flu or something), or worried about getting my wife sick.

If i'm extremely tired. (like when I was working 20 hour shifts as a grad student). 

If I've had sex earlier that day, I might not be up fro a second time, but would always be happy to take care of my wife. 

I don't know quite what "bloated" is in this context but I have mild chronic digestive issues, but never enough to be a problem for sex.


In 30 years, I think I have turned my wife down for sex less than 10s time total for any reason. Of course she rarely asks, so that isn't really a fair comparison.





FustratedinCA said:


> Wait..what???? being bloated is not a good excuse for not having sex? To the men in the room, is this true???


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## NobodySpecial

MJJEAN said:


> Somewhere there is a standard evidence thread, but I am not on my laptop and my tablet sucks, so I'm not going to try to link it. I'm sure some kind soul will.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## MJJEAN

FustratedinCA said:


> Wait..what???? being bloated is not a good excuse for not having sex? To the men in the room, is this true???


Not a man, but DH has been a bit bloated when I wanted sex and he'd just compensate by using a position that didn't put pressure on his stomach. 
Besides, it's one thing to say he's bloated and maybe in pain from gas bubbles once in a while after eating chili or going loco on tacos and burritos, but the way you've presented it he uses the excuse regularly.


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## FustratedinCA

@uhtred All your suggests seems to further support that maybe he's just not interested in having sex with me. Thanks.


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## Chuck71

FrustratedCA..... Karl Marx noted in Communist Manifesto a man is tied to his work. A man without work has no connection with his self. I was unemployed too for a year. I can tell you firsthand it will send a man into a severe state of depression. I always worked... always. When I signed up for unemployment, I almost broke down and cried. There may be depression somewhere in his psyche, genders are wired differently for a reason. He has a BS degree.... what is it in? There are a number of jobs which now require a 4 year degree. Of course the pay sucks because more and more are getting 4 year degrees. Wages go down, student loans rise..... sad... (I taught FT at a university, saw this WAY too often.)

In your situation... financially you are doing okay, but it could be better. Give him three months... to find a job, ANY job, full time. He may not get benefits, many jobs today are through temps to hire. If you are in a large populated area, have him apply for at least five jobs per day. chart it down and if you need to, make sure they are jobs he is qualified for. A BS degree should not be applying for positions which require a masters or higher. Yes this sounds childish but you will get your answer. I am termed "disabled" due to limitations with my right arm and I live in a factory town. Could I work factory jobs, yes but my disability would prevent me from making production. 

Present this to him.... with two incomes, we could vacation much more, pay the home off faster, drive nicer cars, invest for something in our retirement years. When I lectured at the univ. at under and grad level, it helped with my student loan and paid me as well, not much but it helped. I have a 1980s-like mortgage payment, rental properties, and land. I could afford to do it. While I was with my post-D gf... I had more extra time than she did. I cooked 67%, did the clothes 80% (delicates.... I left those to her LOL), all yard work, all car upkeep, most of food shopping, and for the first year a very active sex life. I even sold vintage baseball cards as a hobby and that alone would average out to a nice paycheck in my town.

100k in CA west of I-5 is nothing. 100k in my part of the country, you are living "very high on the hog," or as pop would say, "schitting in tall cotton." Even if I won the Powerball, I would have to do something. Maybe open up a card shop or a job I loved as long as it had health insurance..... pay could be minimum wage... wouldn't matter. A man who does nothing with his life.... is a wasted life.

Where I live, the South, you still see a lot of SAHMs. Rough job, I don't think I could do it. But you also see SAHMs while they have yet to have children. Blows my mind......... why not work, save $, then when the kids come, you have $ to fall back on?


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