# How common are false claims of abuse?



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I am a victim of this, and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..

Now when i was young, I thought abuse meant coming home and yelling and screaming for no reason, throwing your wife around, hitting her etc.

But now it seems to have morphed into a powerful tool to diminish and weaken men in all ways possible..

I can see why women will claim abuse falsely.. If they are breaking up a family, leaving, and cheating, then it will automatically take the blame off of her. No woman wants to accept that responsibility. How often do we hear women say "Well I am divorced because I chose to cheat on my husband who was a great guy" Probably very rarely.. 

My wife actually went to an abused women's meeting per her lawyers instructions.. They gave her a pamphlet that details what is abuse.. Basically if you do not like some of your wife's friends, that is controlling and abusive. If you do not allow her to spend money anyway she pleases, that is financial abuse. If you repeatedly ask for sex, or act sad for not getting it, that is a form of sexual abuse. In other words almost every action, or dispute is now abusive.

Does anyone else notice this trend? I almost have a hard time keeping a straight face overtime I hear a woman tell me how her ex husband was such an abuser.

And lastly, we usually say "Women marry a man hoping to change him, and men marry a woman hoping she stays the same.. So why did these women knowingly marry this horrible abuser? Did the man change over night?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

There are many different kinds of abuse. You don't need to yell or hit her to be abusive. 

All of your examples can be signs of abuse in some cases. It doesn't mean they are always abuse in every case. 

Usually it is a combination of many different things and events that led the spouse to feel the other is abusive, not just 1 thing.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> And lastly, we usually say "Women marry a man hoping to change him, and men marry a woman hoping she stays the same..


Just because something is said, it does not make it true. This certainly does not apply to all women or all men.




marriedman321 said:


> So why did these women knowingly marry this horrible abuser? Did the man change over night?


Well, yea, that happens a lot.

I dated a man for 5 years before we married. We lived together for part of that time He never yelled. He never raised a hand to me.

In the first year of marriage his anger started. One example was when he became furious because I cut off about 2 inches of our son's hair. His hair was below his shoulders and everyone thought he was a girl. I wanted to make him look more like a boy. So my husband become furious, started yelling and pushing me around ... to the point that I fell on the floor and hurt my tail bone. It escalated from there to him yelling, shoving me around, hitting me, grabbing/twisting my arm, throwing things at me. The yelling/anger became daily events. He physical happened about once a month, sometimes more.

Abusers seldom start the abuse before marriage. They are much less likely to get the woman to marry them if they do.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> In the first year of marriage his anger started. One example was when he became furious because I cut off about 2 inches of our son's hair. His hair was below his shoulders and everyone thought he was a girl. I wanted to make him look more like a boy. So my husband become furious, started yelling and pushing me around ... to the point that I fell on the floor and hurt my tail bone. It escalated from there to him yelling, shoving me around, hitting me, grabbing/twisting my arm, throwing things at me. The yelling/anger became daily events. He physical happened about once a month, sometimes more.


Thats funny.. I had the opposite problem. My wife liked my son's hair long, and I liked it shorter. However I respected her enough to talk to her before just cutting it off. I am sure she would have went ballistic.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

MM321, I am truely saddened you got hosed in your divorce. You really did get the short end of the stick. And I'm sorry for that.

What gets my goat though, is your insistent need to prove how every female on this earth is out to "get" the other half of the human species.

You ask a simple question such as this, but fail to consider the implications of "real" abuse that goes unreported. For that, I must implore you to take a step back.

Yes, what happened to you is horrible. And if I could, I'd make your x atone for the wrongs she did to you. But I can't.

The only thing I can do...is to say you need to ease up on inflammotory and unyielding notion that wives are nothing more than the lying, cheating thing you married. Who stabbed you in the back. And deserves more money than God Himself.

You really need to move past this.

Really.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> There are many different kinds of abuse. You don't need to yell or hit her to be abusive.


See? You can't even raise your voice in an argument any more or you're abusive.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> MM321, I am truely saddened you got hosed in your divorce. You really did get the short end of the stick. And I'm sorry for that.
> 
> What gets my goat though, is your insistent need to prove how every female on this earth is out to "get" the other half of the human species.
> 
> ...


Well, I am speaking of women who file for divorce. Not all wives..

it seems abuse has become a term that is very overused.. And it is a one way street.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Well, that's because too many people got hurt and DIDN'T report it.

Men, as well as women.

My point is, sooner or later, you need to be able to move on past the crappy side of the farse of the marriage you had.

And not seek to destroy any future relationships because of the pain you endured from ending this one.


----------



## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Speaking as a guy, none of the divorces I know have involved false claims of abuse. I'm sorry that's what happened to you, but that hasn't been my observation. 

C


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Thats funny.. I had the opposite problem. My wife liked my son's hair long, and I liked it shorter. However I respected her enough to talk to her before just cutting it off. I am sure she would have went ballistic.


That's your entire response to years of abuse (emotional and physical)?

My husband was in medical school. Most of his spare time was spent cheating with other women.

I was the sole bread winner for our family and the sole care taker of our son. I bought every stich of clothing our son wore, every toy, every book, took him to every doc's appointment, gave him every bath, etc. 

Perhaps he should have had enough respect to act like a husband and a father.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Revamped said:


> MM321, I am truely saddened you got hosed in your divorce. You really did get the short end of the stick. And I'm sorry for that.
> 
> What gets my goat though, is your insistent need to prove how every female on this earth is out to "get" the other half of the human species.
> 
> ...


:iagree: QFT

I too am sorry that the OP was treated so badly in his divorce. It's horrible.

But what happened to him is no worse that almost everyone on this forum has gone through... this includes both women and men

His wife is the person all this anger needs to be directed at, not all women.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well, I am speaking of women who file for divorce. Not all wives..
> 
> it seems abuse has become a term that is very overused.. And it is a one way street.


No, all women who file for divorce do not make false claims of abuse. Not by a long shot.

Generally a police record and/or witnesses have to sexist for any accusations of abuse to stick in a divorce.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Cletus said:


> See? You can't even raise your voice in an argument any more or you're abusive.


That's not what I said. 

If the OP thinks that only "coming home and yelling and screaming for no reason, throwing your wife around, hitting her etc." is abuse then he is wrong, there are different ways to abuse someone that don't involve yelling or hitting. 

I've been in an abusive relationship and although he was also physical, the emotional and mental abuse was even worse at times. 

My H also had times where he was emotionally abusive but has worked on fixing those parts and has gotten better. 

Women and men can both be abusive, both genders have spoken about abuse on this forum.


----------



## SimplyCrushed (Nov 21, 2014)

Sorry but this is a ridiculously offensive post and I have no idea how you would know what HER lawyer gave her. 
In any case, most courts don't look at abuse as a all encompassing reason for a divorce. There is nothing to gain if nothing happened! To answer your question about financial abuse etc this is usually the case where one person prevents the other from using assets, hurting them economically throughout the marriage etc. Same for other forms of abuse. You are obviously upset but seriously.... your examples are insulting!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

OP, there actually are women who file for divorce who have a valid reason for doing so. There are women who file but don't try to screw over their husbands, file false claims, or go after his last penny. There are even women who don't cheat, and who aren't evil conniving harpies. 

Shocking, I know.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Rowan said:


> OP, there actually are women who file for divorce who have a valid reason for doing so. There are women who file but don't try to screw over their husbands, file false claims, or go after his last penny. There are even women who don't cheat, and who aren't evil conniving harpies.
> 
> Shocking, I know.


Well, read my initial question.. I personally know 2 guys going through a divorce now who are also labeled as "abusive"..

Read the threads on here, where guy after guy is labeled as "abusive" because his wife is cheating.. Everyone labels that as a "red flag" she is cheating.

So I guess your answer to my question is that false claims never happen, or are extremely rare?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Let me put it like this... I am not even speaking of claims to the police..

A woman wants a divorce because she thinks the grass is greener.. How many of these women admit that? Do these women tell friends and family "Well, I was thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. So I cheated and got a divorce"

Or are we saying women never file for divorce because they think the grass is greener?


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

I usually keep my mouth shut about it in this forum, but spend a night reading stories and watch for the hair trigger on the abuse verb.

It has become, shall we say, abused.


----------



## SimplyCrushed (Nov 21, 2014)

I don't think that women will just say that they were abused. Usually women don't want to discuss that, there is a huge stigma with opening that can of worms. 
I think cheaters will just bad mouth you... not abuse but say things were not working. or lie when they met the person they are cheating with. I have a few friends who did that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SimplyCrushed said:


> I don't think that women will just say that they were abused. Usually women don't want to discuss that, there is a huge stigma with opening that can of worms.
> I think cheaters will just bad mouth you... not abuse but say things were not working. or lie when they met the person they are cheating with. I have a few friends who did that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well, like I said.. I hear it quite often in real life, it happened to me, and I read it on here...From both sides.. 

So I can't believe that my experiences are completely invalid because we need to paint women as sweet and loving innocent creatures who do no wrong.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well, like I said.. I hear it quite often in real life,* it happened to me,* and I read it on here...From both sides.. .


What were some of her examples of abuse?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> What were some of her examples of abuse?


I controlled the money.. I didn't like her taking solo vacations.. I didn't like her having separate passwords I didn't know... I didn't like some of her friends..

In court she claimed I didn't "let her work"...


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Honestly, it feels like you can never say no to a woman or it can be a form of "abuse".. How often do we hear of abusive women? Do they not exist?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I controlled the money.. I didn't like her taking solo vacations.. I didn't like her having separate passwords I didn't know... I didn't like some of her friends..
> 
> In court she claimed I didn't "let her work"... .



Are the underlined ones examples _she _used as proof of abuse to her friends?


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Women who are abused should be mad as h3ll that other women use the accusation as a tool for leverage or to save face. Yes I think it happens a lot. For starters, it's an easy target when blame shifting and history rewriting is going on. But beyond that, it's a weapon regarding assets and custody.

Men who abuse women are scum and women who falsely accuse are scum as well.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

There are some.

Although I care not to discuss it on this forum.

I will say, you do not have the definitive rights to pain.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> How often do we hear of abusive women? Do they not exist?


Their husbands are all over TAM. I hear about them in many of the threads.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are the underlined ones examples _she _used as proof of abuse to her friends?


Well, she was re writing history.. I do not know what she told her friends.. It was more or less I am controlling, she isn't happy, I changed, I called her names, etc.. She started cheating, so then I was abusive.. It made her look like someone who just needed a way out.. She got sympathy instead of being looked at as a cheater..

And as I said, I meet many people through my business. And many have went through the same thing I did, and almost always once their wife wanted a divorce, they found out they were cheating, and they also were now all of sudden abusive..

is there anything worse a woman can be looked at than a cheater? Who broke up a family? I think this is why they re write history.


----------



## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> Well, read my initial question.. I personally know 2 guys going through a divorce now who are also labeled as "abusive"..
> 
> Read the threads on here, where guy after guy is labeled as "abusive" because his wife is cheating.. Everyone labels that as a "red flag" she is cheating.
> 
> So I guess your answer to my question is that false claims never happen, or are extremely rare?


Actually, I'm sure it does happen. I don't, however, think that most women who want divorces make abuse claims. 

I didn't. I don't know anyone who has. Even the two women I personally know who were physically abused by their husbands didn't mention abuse in their divorces. 

My point wasn't that this never happens, but that you seem to be rather single-minded in your determination that women, on the whole, are vicious b!tches out to cheat and steal from innocent men. May I suggest that if such has been your experience, you need to seek out a better class of women.

ETA: My ex-husband painted me as no fun, controlling, spending all his money, lazy and good for nothing, frigid, crazy, and on and on. He did it because he was cheating, not because he was a man. Rewriting the marital history is a hallmark of cheaters, male and female.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Let me put it like this... I am not even speaking of claims to the police..
> 
> A woman wants a divorce because she thinks the grass is greener.. How many of these women admit that? Do these women tell friends and family "Well, I was thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. So I cheated and got a divorce"
> 
> Or are we saying women never file for divorce because they think the grass is greener?


If these men are not being accused of the crime of domestic violence, what are they being accused of?

And what difference does it make in the divorce? Very often in a divorce, both sides speak very badly of the other. Nothing new there.


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> A woman wants a divorce because she thinks the grass is greener.. How many of these women admit that? Do these women tell friends and family "Well, I was thinking the grass would be greener with someone else. So I cheated and got a divorce"


The number of women who admit to that is probably similar to the number of actual abusers who admit their abuse. People don't advertise their bad behavior. 

BTW, I'm not trying to imply OP is an abuser.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If these men are not being accused of the crime of domestic violence, what are they being accused of?
> 
> And what difference does it make in the divorce? Very often in a divorce, both sides speak very badly of the other. Nothing new there.


Exactly.. My attorney told me so many women claim some sort of abuse in a divorce that these days it means nothing.. 

But to others it definitely makes the husband look bad and is used as a term for control.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well, she was re writing history.. I do not know what she told her friends.. It was more or less I am controlling, she isn't happy, I changed, I called her names, etc.. She started cheating, so then I was abusive.. It made her look like someone who just needed a way out.. She got sympathy instead of being looked at as a cheater..
> 
> And as I said, I meet many people through my business. And many have went through the same thing I did, and almost always once their wife wanted a divorce, they found out they were cheating, and they also were now all of sudden abusive..
> 
> is there anything worse a woman can be looked at than a cheater? Who broke up a family? I think this is why they re write history.


When men cheat, they rewrite history as well. They accuse their wives of all kinds of things from not knowing how to boil water to being a nagging b!tch, to being a emotionally abusive witch.

Men and women both do this even when the are leaving a marriage and are not cheating.

The other thing is that some of it is not re-writing. It's the person expressing their personal view. There are always more than one side to every story.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Exactly.. My attorney told me so many women claim some sort of abuse in a divorce that these days it means nothing..


You are twisting what I said. I did not say anything about false claims of abuse. I said that without evidence and police report, they cannot be proven in court.

If you attorney told it to you in this manner then he misrepresented the truth. Most abuse is not illegal. Most is never reported. The courts generally only care about the type of abuse that is a crime, this is physical abuse. 

Just because something is not a crime and/or was not reported to the police does not mean it did not happen.

Both men and women bad mouth each other in the divorce. Some of what they say is the truth. Some of it might be exaggerated. Most of it is their personal view of what went on in the marriage. 

Sometimes, not that often, people just flat out lie. 



marriedman321 said:


> But to others it definitely makes the husband look bad and is used as a term for control.


Yea, and the ugly things that men say about their wives when they divorce make the women look bad. This is not a one sided thing.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Rowan said:


> Actually, I'm sure it does happen. I don't, however, think that most women who want divorces make abuse claims.
> 
> I didn't. I don't know anyone who has. Even the two women I personally know who were physically abused by their husbands didn't mention abuse in their divorces.
> 
> ...


My theory is that ironically most women who were in abusive relationships don't talk about it during the split where quite a few who were not in abusive relationships make the false claim to save face.

From personal experience, I was not abusive and my ex never claimed that I was so I don't have personal baggage behind my theory. It's just a theory from big dumb me :smthumbup:


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> When men cheat, they rewrite history as well. They accuse their wives of all kinds of things from not knowing how to boil water to being a nagging b!tch, to being a emotionally abusive witch.
> 
> Men and women both do this even when the are leaving a marriage and are not cheating.
> 
> The other thing is that some of it is not re-writing. It's the person expressing their personal view. There are always more than one side to every story.


Yes and making themselves look better than they were too. One spouse leaves and the other will claim to had been the perfect partner and met all the leaving spouse's needs.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> My theory is that ironically most women who were in abusive relationships don't talk about it during the split where quite a few who were not in abusive relationships make the false claim to save face.
> 
> From personal experience, I was not abusive and my ex never claimed that I was so I don't have personal baggage behind my theory. It's just a theory from big dumb me :smthumbup:


Exactly.. Sadly many of the truly abused women stay with the abuser and speak of how much they love them..

I guess for men it is scary because so often men are put in jail for false allegations.. Thats real abuse..use the police power of the state to win a case.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I also have a guy that works for me.. 

And anytime him and his gf argue, she picks up the phone to fake dial 911.. Same thing my wife would do.. I think so many women know they can now "control" the situation by making threats to call police..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

that.girl said:


> The number of women who admit to that is probably similar to the number of actual abusers who admit their abuse. People don't advertise their bad behavior.


Exactly. 

The fact is that no one knows what the truth is about anyone else's relationship unless they have seen what goes on when the couple is alone behind closed doors.

Most abusers only abuse their SO/spouse when there are no witnesses.



that.girl said:


> BTW, I'm not trying to imply OP is an abuser.


:iagree:


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I also have a guy that works for me..
> 
> And anytime him and his gf argue, she picks up the phone to fake dial 911.. Same thing my wife would do.. I think so many women know they can now "control" the situation by making threats to call police..


You have no idea what goes on with a couple unless you are with them when they are alone. 

There is a way to combat 911 call threats that are false. Tell your friend to get a VAR and keep it on him at all times when around her. If she making false threats, all he has to do is to play the recording for the police when they come.

Why would he even stay in a marriage where she is making false threats?


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> Exactly.. Sadly many of the truly abused women stay with the abuser and speak of how much they love them..
> 
> I guess for men it is scary because so often men are put in jail for false allegations.. Thats real abuse..use the police power of the state to win a case.


I tend to agree with some of the women on this thread that cheaters re-write and say untrue things and it goes for both men and women alike. So while I agree that there are a lot of false accusations, they fly both ways and the police aren't normally in the equation. That's why allegations without history don't carry so much weight during the middle of a divorce.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Exactly.. Sadly many of the truly abused women stay with the abuser and speak of how much they love them..
> 
> I guess for men it is scary because so often men are put in jail for false allegations.. Thats real abuse..use the police power of the state to win a case.


How do you know that men are soft often put in jail with false allegations? Of course just about every person in jail accused of abuse is going to claim they are innocent... guilty or not.

99% of the inmates in prisons claim innocence. Do you believe them too?


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> My theory is that ironically most women who were in abusive relationships don't talk about it during the split where quite a few who were not in abusive relationships make the false claim to save face.
> 
> From personal experience, I was not abusive and my ex never claimed that I was so I don't have personal baggage behind my theory. It's just a theory from big dumb me :smthumbup:


I think this is very true. We had neighbors that ended up divorced. We really never knew why until years later when the wife came by for a visit. She told of his physical abuse towards her. I was shocked and told her I wish she would have said something to me so I could've helped her. She said she was too embarrassed at the time to talk to anyone about it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Thats funny.. I had the opposite problem. My wife liked my son's hair long, and I liked it shorter. However I respected her enough to talk to her before just cutting it off. I am sure she would have went ballistic.


I find it interesting that your reply to a post in which I describe a physically and emotionally abusive man, your entire take on it was that I did not show him respect because I cut my son's hair a couple of inches. 

Does my cutting my son's hair excuse the abuse? Does it excuse years of abuse?


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Yes and making themselves look better than they were too. One spouse leaves and the other will claim to had been the perfect partner and met all the leaving spouse's needs.


Yep. I was a BS once apon a time and while I knew something wasn't right about my role, I still thought my ex was just crazy and had zero reason not to be happy with me. I'm sure I would have told anyone that had they asked.

But looking back on it, she was married to a man who didn't know how to set boundaries (me) and became clingy and needing when she started pulling away (me again). So yea there are 3 sides to the story. Sometimes BS and WS don't see the third side until years later.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I find it interesting that your reply to a post in which I describe a physically and emotionally abusive man, your entire take on it was that I did not show him respect because I cut my son's hair a couple of inches.
> 
> Does my cutting my son's hair excuse the abuse? Does it excuse years of abuse?


I just wouldn't have done that without her permission as it was important to her. We had the same exact discussion. Even now I know she likes it a bit longer, so I just ask her to cut it.. I wouldn't chop 2 inches off and send him to her place..

And if I did, I would be prepared to be called every name in the book. I wouldn't call that abusive though.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I just wouldn't have done that without her permission as it was important to her. We had the same exact discussion. Even now I know she likes it a bit longer, so I just ask her to cut it.. I wouldn't chop 2 inches off and send him to her place..
> 
> And if I did, I would be prepared to be called every name in the book. I wouldn't call that abusive though.


What I described was abuse. You ignore it again.

I also explained in a later post why I did not ask his permission to cut my son's hair. It was reasonable. Plus hair grows back.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What I described was abuse. You ignore it again.
> 
> I also explained in a later post why I did not ask his permission to cut my son's hair. It was reasonable. Plus hair grows back.


true.. But if I cut his hair on my own, knowing she would hate it, I would be the mean controlling man, and she can't even have her sons hair how she likes it...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> true.. But if I cut his hair on my own, knowing she would hate it, I would be the mean controlling man, and she can't even have her sons hair how she likes it...


That's ridiculous.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

I have been accused of every possible type of abuse both in the gossip world in my community to legal action. My stbx has relished the “victim” role. Abuse claims are common place where I live so much so they just become running jokes. 

Abuse IS a problem. More often than not the true victim of abuse is the one who is silent whether out of fear or a misguided shame. These are the people who need help. 

From a legal end, you can make up any tale of fantasy and get a temp r/o. I am living this for the third time now. The sheriff who delivered the papers to me this last round told me he had already played delivery boy 14 times that day alone and only one was a legitimate claim in his opinion from his years of experience. None of these are 911 calls, they all get filed under civil suits. 

People will and do bad mouth either other during divorce. This is fact and you need to develop a thick skin to it.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am a victim of this, and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..
> 
> Now when i was young, I thought abuse meant coming home and yelling and screaming for no reason, throwing your wife around, hitting her etc.
> 
> ...


From a professional standpoint 25% easy. Now how many of those are actually substantiated is a whole other matter and far less


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Yep. I was a BS once apon a time and while I knew something wasn't right about my role, I still thought my ex was just crazy and had zero reason not to be happy with me. I'm sure I would have told anyone that had they asked.
> 
> But looking back on it, she was married to a man who didn't know how to set boundaries (me) and became clingy and needing when she started pulling away (me again). So yea there are 3 sides to the story. Sometimes BS and WS don't see the third side until years later.


:iagree: QFT This is one of the best posts I've seen on TAM. it's short but very insightful... spoken by someone who has made a long journey of growing as a person.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

honcho said:


> I have been accused of every possible type of abuse both in the gossip world in my community to legal action. My stbx has relished the “victim” role. Abuse claims are common place where I live so much so they just become running jokes.
> 
> Abuse IS a problem. More often than not the true victim of abuse is the one who is silent whether out of fear or a misguided shame. These are the people who need help.
> 
> ...


OR...

Realize there is no recourse for being a victim. And Rising Against at all costs. Including watching it all play out. And being ok with that.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

honcho said:


> From a legal end, you can make up any tale of fantasy and get a temp r/o. I am living this for the third time now. The sheriff who delivered the papers to me this last round told me he had already played delivery boy 14 times that day alone and only one was a legitimate claim in his opinion from his years of experience. None of these are 911 calls, they all get filed under civil suits.
> 
> People will and do bad mouth either other during divorce. This is fact and you need to develop a thick skin to it.


This is what I am talking about.. So many men get a TPO and have their lives ruined based on false allegations.. No right to an attorney. They don't even show up in court.. Just removed from the home..


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

So...

there is no justification of anything on either side.

Broken ribs sit side by side with broken egos.


Really, MM321, this isn't a battle you want to take sides on.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> This is what I am talking about.. So many men get a TPO and have their lives ruined based on false allegations.. No right to an attorney. They don't even show up in court.. Just removed from the home..


Many things I don't like about our criminal justice system I don't like and this has always been the top. You're right a woman can accuse a man of just about anything and they will get a TRO. No proof, no confronting your accuser...nothing. I have seen it used as tool to get the husband out of the house, away from thier kid, fired from a job. No due process and even if it's discoverred she lied no consequence.

HOWEVER

Real abuse does happen and we need a restraining order system. We need the ability to get abusers away from ther perpetrator and the TRO system does that. I have assisted real victims get the TRO which in some cases no doubted saved their lives so we as a society need it. But the loop hole of it does suck and that something that is desperately needed can be abused should be punished. Not a perfect system but what we have.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> Many things I don't like about our criminal justice system I don't like and this has always been the top. You're right a woman can accuse a man of just about anything and they will get a TRO. No proof, no confronting your accuser...nothing. I have seen it used as tool to get the husband out of the house, away from thier kid, fired from a job. No due process and even if it's discoverred she lied no consequence.
> 
> HOWEVER
> 
> Real abuse does happen and we need a restraining order system. We need the ability to get abusers away from ther perpetrator and the TRO system does that. I have assisted real victims get the TRO which in some cases no doubted saved their lives so we as a society need it. But the loop hole of it does suck and that something that is desperately needed can be abused should be punished. Not a perfect system but what we have.


To be honest, i was scared to death of the system. I had an emotional wife who had a lawyer advising her that me closing a door while she slept on the couch was abuse.. 

And I have had friends stripped of their home and families because it was good strategy to make up false allegations.

I think the problem with message boards is everyone is from a different walk of life, and might have completely different experiences they draw conclusions from.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> Many things I don't like about our criminal justice system I don't like and this has always been the top. You're right a woman can accuse a man of just about anything and they will get a TRO. No proof, no confronting your accuser...nothing. I have seen it used as tool to get the husband out of the house, away from thier kid, fired from a job. No due process and even if it's discoverred she lied no consequence.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

Cops aren't immune to this. Cops wives know the system, and they will often make up claims of abuse and get POs against their cop husband to ruin him. When a cop gets a PO served against him, he has to go thru the humiliation of turning in his firearm and any firearms in the home, then he's removed from the home, then he's taken off his crew and made to work a desk job. Then have to endure the endless questions from coworkers asking why he's working the desk.

When it comes to getting protection orders against other people, judges require proof, police reports, etc. But when a woman is applying for one against her husband/boyfriend, the judge grants one with no questions asked. Then the husband/boyfriend has to jump thru the hoops of contesting the order.

It's absolutely bullsh!t.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

The story I posted on the previous page about my neighbor? The husband was a Sheriff's Deputy. That was another reason why she was afraid to call because she would be calling the department he worked for and she figured they would all stick together anyway.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I think what I meat is more or less this..

Not only were you cheated on, divorced, lose your child at least half of the time, lose money etc, the cheating wife ALSO tarnished your name amongst mutual friends, couples, acquaintances etc.

An example could be when I dropped my son off at his school where she works, I sensed the female teachers were very uneasy around me..The owner of the school did tell me she had my wife stop the drama and stop the bad mouthing of me as people were almost sick of hearing it. I had her friends (couples we knew), later tell me horrible stories she would tell them about me that were not based in reality. Another couple we were around would not even look at me during a birthday party we attended.. The wife in this couple who I barely knew wrote a detailed affidavit for court for her, detailing many complete lies about me and how bad I am..

Now if this was just me, I would chalk it up to a crazy individual. But I just see a trend on here, and amongst my friends with cheating wives, in which the man is all of a sudden mean, abusive, and controlling once the wife started to have an affair.

And before we say "Men do this too", I really don't think so. I think men who cheat typically are more accountable for their actions. Men wouldn't even be proud to state they are afraid of their wife, or are victims of abuse. 

An example we all know could be Tiger Woods. He owned his cheating.. There was no blame.. Even though his wife attacked him with a golf club, smashed his windows, and caused him to have facial injuries and crash his car, she was never looked at as abusive.. 

If I did that after I found out about my wife's cheating, I would most likely be in prison right now.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

More men may not state that they were afraid of their wife but they do talk about abuse.

FTR- it was very difficult for me to actually get police assistance when I was being abused. Neighbors called, they couldn't do anything if they didn't see bruises, When I finally left and tried to file charges and an RO it was a nightmare. Some just flat out didn't believe me (laughing, eye rolling, etc) , others would just suggest yet another RO - which clearly wasn't working in the first place. He never once went to jail for assault charges. The most he ever got was picked up and let go. Most women I have spoken to in similar circumstances have the same stories. 

The police should take every case seriously because if they assume someone is lying when they're not, someone could get killed. 

But your wife is not suggesting you abused her in a way that you could be put in jail for. 
She is saying that your actions and words, in her opinion, were abusive. You say they were not. Really it doesn't matter anymore because you are divorced.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Again, you take an example from your life and make sweeping generalizations that's how most women act.

Several people have given you their experiences to counter balance your claim.

But you won't back off. You'll keep going, making your point more and more intense.

I got that this is how you feel. I can't change your opinion. I'd like to...

Humans can really be despicable to one another.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Again, you take an example from your life and make sweeping generalizations that's how most women act.
> 
> Several people have given you their experiences to counter balance your claim.
> 
> ...


I don't see where I wrote the above..

I said I have found that WOMEN WHO HAVE AFFAIRS who break up a family often times , in my experience, then claim some sort of abuse to garner sympathy instead of owning their actions. 

I never said all women do this, or no men are abusive, or police screw over all men, etc etc


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You did a very good job of burying your point in the middle of your rant.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Revamped said:


> Again, you take an example from your life and make sweeping generalizations that's how most women act.
> 
> Several people have given you their experiences to counter balance your claim.
> 
> ...


I think it's you are jumping to the conclusion that he's making sweeping generalizations. I've dealt with situations like this just about every single day for the past 5 years when I was a street cop and now working the desk. And false claims of abuse are so very, very common now. And now the catch all seems to be the emotional abuse angle, which is so vague, that *anything can be claimed as emotional abuse*.



Revamped said:


> Humans can really be despicable to one another.


That we can agree on. I've seen things that would make you cry in despair about how human beings treat each other. And we call ourselves civilized?


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

Cheating men don't make fake abuse claims. They make fake claims of sexless marriages and lazy, nagging wives. 

Both genders rewrite marital history, in the way that will be most believable to the people around them.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> I think it's you are jumping to the conclusion that he's making sweeping generalizations. I've dealt with situations like this just about every single day for the past 5 years when I was a street cop and now working the desk. And false claims of abuse are so very, very common now. And now the catch all seems to be the emotional abuse angle, which is so vague, that *anything can be claimed as emotional abuse*.


See, this is the problem. At least half the police I dealt with assumed I was faking it. They would put me in their false claims of abuse column. I wasn't. He was just convincing enough and I was broken down enough that he seemed like the good guy and I seemed like some crazy, vindictive woman. FTR- he was mostly emotionally abusive and got good enough to not leave evidence when he wasn't. He almost killed me. 

I know you aren't on the street anymore but I find this a very disturbing mentality for people with your power to have. 

Emotional abuse is hard to see and notice if you are not there living it everyday. The abusers can seem like wonderful people, the victims like dramatic liars. I'm sure people do use the word too much but that shouldn't take away from the fact that it's real and dangerous.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

that.girl said:


> Cheating men don't make fake abuse claims. They make fake claims of sexless marriages and lazy, nagging wives.
> 
> Both genders rewrite marital history, in the way that will be most believable to the people around them.


Lol, who said the claims are false? Secondly, the above claims, even if they were false, are not enough to land a woman in jail or win custody of your children. You can't get your wife thrown in jail or removed from your home for nagging, being lazy, or not having sex. You won't even get your friends on your side for saying your wife nags..

And in your above example, the men still would look bad for cheating.. Many wives nag, don't want much sex, or are lazy.. The "abuse" allegation allows the woman to garner immediate sympathy as perhaps her life is in danger? She is being controlled and in a living hell! She needs to escape into the arms of another man! So, it isn't even cheating on top of it.

One day during an argument that my wife completely instigated, she lost control.. Once again picked up the phone to call police, or "fake dial"

This time she really called and the police came..The only thing that saved me was having a recording of the entire incident, in which she is heard yelling and screaming, and I was totally calm or trying to avoid her. 

After hearing the tape, the police were on my side. They also instructed me to be very careful, as this happens very often, and it could cost several thousand dollars to be able to return to your home, or see your kid in the immediate future.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I have never been sympathetic to a cheater.

And I usually am much harder on my criticism of women than men.

Which usually gets me bounced off for a time or two!


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> See, this is the problem. At least half the police I dealt with assumed I was faking it. They would put me in their false claims of abuse column. I wasn't. He was just convincing enough and I was broken down enough that he seemed like the good guy and I seemed like some crazy, vindictive woman. FTR- he was mostly emotionally abusive and got good enough to not leave evidence when he wasn't. He almost killed me.
> 
> I know you aren't on the street anymore but I find this a very disturbing mentality for people with your power to have.
> 
> Emotional abuse is hard to see and notice if you are not there living it everyday. The abusers can seem like wonderful people, the victims like dramatic liars. I'm sure people do use the word too much but that shouldn't take away from the fact that it's real and dangerous.


Women are extremely emotionally abusive.. Men are just told to take it..


----------



## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Let me take this moment to direct everyone's attention to one of the rules on TAM.

"1. Treat others on the forum with dignity and respect.
Personal attacks, hate speech, racist or sexist statements or attacks, sexual harassment, explicit sexual comments, promoting violence, will not be tolerated."


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> See, this is the problem. At least half the police I dealt with assumed I was faking it. They would put me in their false claims of abuse column. I wasn't. He was just convincing enough and I was broken down enough that he seemed like the good guy and I seemed like some crazy, vindictive woman. FTR- he was mostly emotionally abusive and got good enough to not leave evidence when he wasn't. He almost killed me.
> 
> I know you aren't on the street anymore but I find this a very disturbing mentality for people with your power to have.
> 
> Emotional abuse is hard to see and notice if you are not there living it everyday. The abusers can seem like wonderful people, the victims like dramatic liars. I'm sure people do use the word too much but that shouldn't take away from the fact that it's real and dangerous.


Look, I don't know how things work in Canada, as I don't know your Canadian criminal statutes. But here in the US, we have the Bill of Rights, and the 4th Ammendment requires the police to have probable cause to make an arrest. And that probable cause comes in the form of evidence, independent witnesses, etc. Without PC, then the police cannot make an arrest that would violate the party's civil rights. If there's evidence, then we call in the crime lab techs to take photos of any injuries. 

If there's no evidence or PC, then it's your word against his. Its as simple as that. And no, neighbors can't be witnesses unless they actually witnessed the abuse, all they can say is that they heard a verbal argument. And no prosecutor would file any charges, nor any judge would sign any warrant of arrest without evidence and/or probable cause. 

The police can arrest someone based soley on one party's word, without anything to back it up I might add. There is no criminal statute for emotional abuse, otherwise, everyone would end up in jail at one time or another. Physical abuse yes, because that's assault. 

I've helped console and help women (and men) who have been truly physically abused, and got them the help they needed. I've arrested their abusers. And I will be doing so long after I've left this thread since it's part of my job. And what do I get out of it? The couple walks into court holding hands, or when I do a victim notification and call the victim to let her know this man is bonding out of jail in an hour and she tells me "I know, I helped bond him out". But that doesn't stop the police from doing their job and making arrests when there's enough PC to do so. 

I've dealt with situations like this many, many times. The frequent caller who claims abuse, yet there is never any evidence/PC to make an arrest. Some even call several times a shift. Ever heard of the story, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?, it becomes that after a while when the officers continually go to the same address and there's nothing that would warrant an arrest. And don't think the police automatically side with your husband, because basically, they don't have any emotional investment. To them, it's a radio call to investigate a domestic disturbance, which might even be their 3rd or 4th call of that type during their shift. 

And none of that changes the fact that false claims of abuse have become all too common.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Look, I don't know how things work in Canada, as I don't know your Canadian criminal statutes. But here in the US, we have the Bill of Rights, and the 4th Ammendment requires the police to have probable cause to make an arrest. And that probable cause comes in the form of evidence, independent witnesses, etc. Without PC, then the police cannot make an arrest that would violate the party's civil rights. If there's evidence, then we call in the crime lab techs to take photos of any injuries.
> 
> If there's no evidence or PC, then it's your word against his. Its as simple as that. An no, neighbors can't be witnesses unless they actually witnessed the abuse, all they can say is that they heard a verbal argument. And no prosecutor would file any charges, nor any judge would sign any warrant of arrest without evidence and/or probable cause.
> You seem to think that the police can arrest someone based soley on your word, without anything to back it up I might add. There is no criminal statute for emotional abuse, otherwise, everyone would end up in jail at one time or another. Physical abuse yes, because that's assault.


Well then this would dispel that myth that there are hoards of men being locked up because some woman lied and said he was abusive. 




lordmayhem said:


> How DARE you say I have a disturbing mentality. I've helped console and help women (and men) who have been truly physically abused, and got them the help they needed. I've arrested their abusers. And I will be doing so long after I've left this thread since it's part of my job. And what do I get out of it? The couple walks into court holding hands, or when I do a victim notification and call the victim to let her know this man is bonding out of jail in an hour and she tells me "I know, I helped bond him out". But that doesn't stop the police from doing their job and making arrests when there's enough PC to do so.
> 
> I've dealt with women like this many, many times. The frequent caller who claims abuse, yet there is never any evidence/PC to make an arrest. Some even call several times a shift. Ever heard of the story, "The Boy Who Cried Wolf"?, it becomes that after a while when the officers continually go to the same address and there's nothing that would warrant an arrest. And don't think the police automatically side with your husband, because basically, they don't have any emotional investment. To them, it's a radio call to investigate a domestic disturbance, which might even be their 3rd or 4th call of that type during their shift.
> 
> And none of that changes the fact that false claims of abuse have become all too common.


The disturbing mentality comes from you picking and choosing who you think have been "truly abused" and ones who aren't. There is a lot that goes on in an abusive relationship than would make someone stay, go back to them, call the police out multiple times without any proof of violence. This does not make them false claims. 
Nothing you can do about them, maybe. But not false claims. 

It's your _opinion _that these claims are false because you don't believe them or because they have no proof.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well then this would dispel that myth that there are hoards of men being locked up because some woman lied and said he was abusive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A. A temporary order of protection is often issued without the man even knowing, and is often times based on lies. he has no say or representation. Very scary for men.. Just removed from your home and family..

B. Anytime a woman calls the police the man should be arrested with no evidence? That is pretty scary..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I think what I meat is more or less this..
> 
> Not only were you cheated on, divorced, lose your child at least half of the time, lose money etc, the cheating wife ALSO tarnished your name amongst mutual friends, couples, acquaintances etc.
> 
> ...


You maintain such a state of victimhood that it's hard to take.

It's not true that men are more accountable about their cheating. For example my husband cheated in medical school and residency with women he met at the hospitals. Everyone knew but me. Everyone went along with it. Every one of the women I found out he was cheating with were single.

You are just making crap to help you maintain you self-pity and victimhood and blaming all women for what your wife did. Get a grip already.

You even said that the people where our wife works got tired of the nonsense she was saying. It's pretty clear that the staff was complaining to the owner, so the owner told her to stop.

You really need to get into counseling. The main person who is being hurt by this victimhood you wear as a badge is you, yourself. The only other people who are hurt are your children.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You maintain such a state of victimhood that it's hard to take.
> 
> It's not true that men are more accountable about their cheating. For example my husband cheated in medical school and residency with women he met at the hospitals. Everyone knew but me. Everyone went along with it. Every one of the women I found out he was cheating with were single.
> 
> ...


Can we stay on topic please?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> A. A temporary order of protection is often issued without the man even knowing, and is often times based on lies. he has no say or representation. Very scary for men.. Just removed from your home and family..


A temporary order of protection has to be served on the person who is being ordered to stay away. So, yes they get notified. And they have a chance to address it. 



marriedman321 said:


> B. Anytime a woman calls the police the man should be arrested with no evidence? That is pretty scary..


The man is not arrested every time a woman calls the police. Your hyperbole will lose you supporters in this.

Most abusers never get arrested, even when the police are called.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> B. Anytime a woman calls the police the man should be arrested with no evidence? That is pretty scary..


Never said that. Just that it shouldn't be assumed that she is lying or making a false accusation. Even when no one could help me, knowing someone listened and cared made a difference. Give numbers to domestic hotlines, shelters in the area. Make the report so if it's ongoing there is proof of it. Notify victim services to get in touch with them.

Many abused women give up on the system because they were not treated with respect. This doesn't mean I assume women are good and men are evil, or that women don't make false reports or re-write history. It happens. But just like when people assume rape victims are lying, "morning after regret" or deserved it because of their actions, when people go around thinking most abuse claims are false it harms real victims.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Well then this would dispel that myth that there are hoards of men being locked up because some woman lied and said he was abusive.


Yes, many men are having Protection/Restraining Orders served to them because some woman lied and said he's abusive. No evidence is necessary for a domestic PO, none at all. The judge will err on the side of caution and sign it, while the man has to go thru the process of contesting it. In the meantime, he's prohibited from going to his own home, even if he's the one paying the rent/mortgage, and seeing his own children since women frequently include their children as part of the PO. So what is the penalty for the woman who lies about the abuse to get the PO? Nothing. The judge simply throws out the order, while the man has to deal with the injury to his reputation and other consequences.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> The disturbing mentality comes from you picking and choosing who you think have been "truly abused" and ones who aren't. There is a lot that goes on in an abusive relationship than would make someone stay, go back to them, call the police out multiple times without any proof of violence. This does not make them false claims.
> Nothing you can do about them, maybe. But not false claims.
> 
> It's your _opinion _that these claims are false because you don't believe them or because they have no proof.


Yes, they are false claims of physical abuse. Read the operative word: *physical*. Again, there is no criminal statute for emotional abuse because that is so very vague and anything can be claimed as emotional abuse.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Can we stay on topic please?


I did stay on topic... your false claims that women always make false abuse claims.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Never said that. Just that it shouldn't be assumed that she is lying or making a false accusation. Even when no one could help me, knowing someone listened and cared made a difference. Give numbers to domestic hotlines, shelters in the area. Make the report so if it's ongoing there is proof of it. Notify victim services to get in touch with them.
> 
> Many abused women give up on the system because they were not treated with respect. This doesn't mean I assume women are good and men are evil, or that women don't make false reports or re-write history. It happens. But just like when people assume rape victims are lying, "morning after regret" or deserved it because of their actions, when people go around thinking most abuse claims are false it harms real victims.


If there is no PROOF, what should police do? Once again, false accusations are made quite often for obvious reasons.. If you ask me, that is the REAL emotional abuse.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Yes, many men are having Protection/Restraining Orders served to them because some woman lied and said he's abusive. No evidence is necessary for a domestic PO, none at all. The judge will err on the side of caution and sign it, while the man has to go thru the process of contesting it. In the meantime, he's prohibited from going to his own home, even if he's the one paying the rent/mortgage, and seeing his own children since women frequently include their children as part of the PO. So what is the penalty for the woman who lies about the abuse to get the PO? Nothing. The judge simply throws out the order, while the man has to deal with the injury to his reputation and other consequences.


So what would you prefer happen? Should the judge not err on the side of caution? Should the woman be prosecuted if she can't prove the abuse happened? Don't you see how this would have the potential to even further silence victims of abuse?

And physical abuse can have no evidence. It's a he said/she said and there's no way for you to know if it's false or not unless you were there.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> If there is no PROOF, what should police do? Once again, false accusations are made quite often for obvious reasons.. If you ask me, that is the REAL emotional abuse.


Proof of what? That's she's lying? How would you prove that?

If you do have proof, there is a charge for lying on a police report which would fit this situation.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Proof of what? That's she's lying? How would you prove that?
> 
> If you do have proof, there is a charge for lying on a police report which would fit this situation.


Proof that a crime was committed..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Proof of what? That's she's lying? How would you prove that?
> 
> If you do have proof, there is a charge for lying on a police report which would fit this situation.


Ok, so let's say my wife and I are going through a divorce and living together.. I can just call the police and say "She hit me', and they should arrest her?


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So what would you prefer happen? Should the judge not err on the side of caution?


Just like with marriedman, you're jumping to conclusions. Of course judges should err on the side of caution, and *that is precisely what women who lie are taking advantage of*. 



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Should the woman be prosecuted if she can't prove the abuse happened?


The woman should be prosecuted for false reporting if she's lying. But the courts don't have time for that. Again, that's another reason why many women abuse the system, knowing they don't have to prove anything to obtain a PO.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Don't you see how this would have the potential to even further silence victims of abuse?


That hasn't stopped anything. Oh please, abuse victims aren't being silenced, that's ridiculous. If anything, women who lie about being abused are the ones abusing the system. That's what marriedman is complaining about. You don't seem to get that.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> And physical abuse can have no evidence. It's a he said/she said and there's no way for you to know if it's false or not unless you were there.


The police can only act on the evidence at the scene, not on your testimony about what allegedly happened.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Proof that a crime was committed..


My daughter, about 22 at the time, was staying at a female friend's apartment for the weekend. The friend invited some guy she liked over. The guy drugged my daughter. After she passed out she was laying on the kitchen floor where she fell. This guy spent hours beating on her. She said she would sort of come to.. to see him on top of her beating her, yelling at her. 

Her friend did nothing to help her. When she got to the point where she could walk, she went to the bedroom and called 911. 

The 'friend' and the guy locked her in the bedroom. When the cops came the 'friend' said that she had called 911 and it was a misunderstanding. So the cops left.

Later my daughter was able to call me. I went there and called the cops. The cops refused to come. My daughter had bruises, a concussion, and other injuries. I took her to the police station to file a report. They ignored it.

I also looked up this guys record. He had about 10 domestic violence cases against him.. all were dropped. His father is some big wig in the sheriff's department. 

This is the type of 'police help' that most victims experience. They get no help. This guys other 10 victims got no help either.


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Proof of what? That's she's lying? How would you prove that?
> 
> If you do have proof, there is a charge for lying on a police report which would fit this situation.


The charge is False Reporting, and nothing is ever done about it. Again, this is what women who lie about being abused, take advantage of. They know they can make a False Report to get a PO and get away with it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Proof that a crime was committed..


So partner has a history of being abusive. They are having a bad day. They are screaming and being verbally abusive. You are scared of what they could do, scared it's going to turn physical. You're trying to leave but they are making it difficult. You call the police for assistance. They come out, can't do anything because they didn't actually hit you- yet or this time- and you have no evidence of what just happened. No crime. So what do you suggest?

I've given advice to both men and women to get themselves to a safe place if possible and call the police ASAP to help. 
What would your advice be?

Lordmayhem- you too. What's your advice for that situation?


----------



## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So partner has a history of being abusive. They are having a bad day. They are screaming and being verbally abusive. You are scared of what they could do, scared it's going to turn physical. You're trying to leave but they are making it difficult. You call the police for assistance. They come out, can't do anything because they didn't actually hit you- yet or this time- and you have no evidence of what just happened. No crime. So what do you suggest?
> 
> I've given advice to both men and women to get themselves to a safe place if possible and call the police ASAP to help.
> What would your advice be?
> ...


Obviously the same. Leave. The police can stand by to keep the peace while you gather your property to leave. In my jurisdiction, the man is told/suggested to leave to keep the peace. Then there's a not so gentle reminder of being arrested for disturbing the peace if he returns and there is a return call to that address.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So partner has a history of being abusive. They are having a bad day. They are screaming and being verbally abusive. You are scared of what they could do, scared it's going to turn physical. You're trying to leave but they are making it difficult. You call the police for assistance. They come out, can't do anything because they didn't actually hit you- yet or this time- and you have no evidence of what just happened. No crime. So what do you suggest?
> 
> I've given advice to both men and women to get themselves to a safe place if possible and call the police ASAP to help.
> What would your advice be?
> ...


All these time you called the police did you leave?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> So partner has a history of being abusive. They are having a bad day. They are screaming and being verbally abusive. You are scared of what they could do, scared it's going to turn physical. You're trying to leave but they are making it difficult. You call the police for assistance. They come out, can't do anything because they didn't actually hit you- yet or this time- and you have no evidence of what just happened. No crime. So what do you suggest?
> 
> I've given advice to both men and women to get themselves to a safe place if possible and call the police ASAP to help.
> What would your advice be?
> ...


You realize this might be chaotic right? So your husband could call anytime and say "i think she might hit me", and they haul you away?


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

If we leave the system the way it is, sometimes men will be falsely accused, and put in a really crappy situation. 
If we require proof to get a PO, sometimes women who really are abused and can't prove it will die. 
Sometimes a society has to choose the lesser of two evils until it builds a better system. 

And for the record, not every man who says he was falsely accused really was. Our prisons are overflowing with people who "didn't do it."


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> All these time you called the police did you leave?


Me personally? I didn't call the police until after I left and he was hunting me down. I was laughed at, blamed, lectured about using the 911 system and told I was lying. Before that it was the neighbors calling and they weren't able to help me then either so I didn't say or do anything, it would have made it worse at home. I left when and how I could. It's a process, often a dangerous one and you have to be careful. 

Not everyone can get out on their own and if they lose faith in the system that is supposed to be protecting them it's just going to hurt them more.

Some abusive people never lay a hand on the other but they do extreme damage to the other and makes it very hard to leave. Just because it's not physical doesn't mean they don't need help.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Do any of you women have sons?


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

I would hate to see my son falsely accused. 
I would hate to see my daughter abused and unable to get help. 
I can't think of a way to protect both at the same time. Can you? 

I am really sorry you're having to deal with this, it's horrible that she's making these accusations and you have to pay for it.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I think some on this thread are overly sensitive..

I think the phenomena I am speaking of is real.. When women are having an affair, and during all of the extreme emotions, false allegations of abuse against the man they are cheating on are extremely common.

Now, for those who are very sensitive, this doesn't mean no woman was ever abused, or ALLLL women do this etc. 

This might even be because the woman has one relationship (the new one) that is just sex and love, so the old relationship really does look abusive now.. I am just guessing.

We speak of women's groups, and feminism, and women's rights etc.. I think it would be an excellent message for women to spread to other women, NOT to start making false abuse allegations as it starts to diminish REAL abuse other men and women go through.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Obviously the same. Leave. The police can stand by to keep the peace while you gather your property to leave. In my jurisdiction, the man is told/suggested to leave to keep the peace. Then there's a not so gentle reminder of being arrested for disturbing the peace if he returns and there is a return call to that address.


This is exactly it.

If a person is being abused, then they need to leave the relationship. 

However, I will say that sometimes a person cannot leave. In my case I left, took my son with me. My husband's lawyer got an emergency court hearing. The Judge, a woman, would not hear the abuse issue because there was no police record of it. She then gave my husband custody of our son. The judge also had the divorce records sealed because she said that we cannot have accusation of domestic abuse and violence in the public records against a doctor.

Now this is a man who was not only physically abusing me, but abusing our son too. If our 3.5 year old son did not jump up to his command, my ex would start pushing/shoving him around, knocking him over, kicked him sometimes.

I could not leave a 3.5 year old in the custody of his abusive father so I stopped the divorce and moved back in with the now ex. It took 3.5 more years before I could build a case and get the now ex's permission to move out with our son. 

By the time I moved out, it was our son who was begging me to never leave him alone with his father "When you are not here mom, he treats me the way he treats you. I'm scared." When my now ex threw a large glass beer mug at me, it missed our son's head by less than an inches and went through the living room window breaking the glass. After that my son was begging me to get him out of there "Mom, he almost killed me."

Some times people cannot leave until they have a safety plan and are allowed to get the children out of harms way.

By he way, my ex now does have domestic violence charges and was on probation he carried on the abuse with other women he dated after I left him.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Do any of you women have sons?


I have 2 sons and 1 daughter. They all know what domestic abuse and violence are. They now not to engage in it and they know how to protect themselves. 

You get out on the very first sign of this behavior.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I think some on this thread are overly sensitive..
> 
> I think the phenomena I am speaking of is real.. When women are having an affair, and during all of the extreme emotions, false allegations of abuse against the man they are cheating on are extremely common.
> 
> ...


This message is already talked about and spread by women all the time. False accusations hurt everyone.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Do we think Tiger Wood's wife was an abuser?

If so, I wonder why the media did not portray her as such?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

At the end of the day, domestic violence is almost always bi directional.. It is 2 people abusing each other. It is far more complex than mean man vs sweet and innocent woman. 

The true nature of domestic violence is not as emotionally satisfying as turning this into a violent male vs innocent female that needs to be protected narrative.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I don't see where I wrote the above..
> 
> I said I have found that WOMEN WHO HAVE AFFAIRS who break up a family often times , in my experience, then claim some sort of abuse to garner sympathy instead of owning their actions.
> 
> I never said all women do this, or no men are abusive...


Yes you have said “WOMEN WHO HAVE AFFAIRS who break up a family”, but that’s not the only women you have been talking about.


marriedman321 said:


> Well, I am speaking of women who file for divorce. Not all wives..” .


So now it’s women to file for divorce, no matter why they file.


marriedman321 said:


> Honestly, it feels like you can never say no to a woman or it can be a form of "abuse"..


Now all no man can talk to any woman without being accused of abuse.



marriedman321 said:


> And as I said, I meet many people through my business. And many have went through the same thing I did, and almost always once their wife wanted a divorce, they found out they were cheating, and they also were now all of sudden abusive..


So all women who want a divorce are cheaters and falsely accuse their husband of abuse. The husbands are just innocent babies. You automatically assume that all of these men are have not abused their wives. It’s all false accusations. Yet there is no way you can know what goes on in the homes of all these men you talk to. But you assume the woman is lying.



marriedman321 said:


> I also have a guy that works for me..
> 
> And anytime him and his gf argue, she picks up the phone to fake dial 911.. Same thing my wife would do.. I think so many women know they can now "control" the situation by making threats to call police..


Again you have no idea what this guy does when he’s behind closed doors. But you assume that his wife is lying. If he’s being abused by her, why is he staying? If he’s innocent, he could easily prove it… to the cops.. .with a VAR or hidden video camera.


marriedman321 said:


> This is what I am talking about.. So many men get a TPO and have their lives ruined based on false allegations...


You have no idea if the accusations are false and what percent are false. It could be .5% or 99%. That does not matter to you. What matters to you is that you want prove that all women who file for divorce make false accusations.


marriedman321 said:


> And before we say "Men do this too", I really don't think so. I think men who cheat typically are more accountable for their actions. Men wouldn't even be proud to state they are afraid of their wife, or are victims of abuse.


And here you solidify that you do not believe that men who cheat lie about their wives to make themselves look better. No, you claim that men who cheat or noble and take responsibility. :rofl:


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> To be honest, i was scared to death of the system. I had an emotional wife who had a lawyer advising her that me closing a door while she slept on the couch was abuse..
> 
> And I have had friends stripped of their home and families because it was good strategy to make up false allegations.
> 
> I think the problem with message boards is everyone is from a different walk of life, and might have completely different experiences they draw conclusions from.


Wilderness? Is that you?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Do we think Tiger Wood's wife was an abuser?
> 
> If so, I wonder why the media did not portray her as such?


Tiger's wife, Nordegren, went ballistic when she found out about his latest affair. She took his cell phone to read the messages between his and one of the women he was cheating with. In the struggle she did hit him and scratch his face. Then Tiger ran out of the house, she ran after him with a golf club. He got into his car and crashed into a tree down the road.

Yes she was violent in scratching him and chasing him with a golf club. 

However, Tiger and she made the decision jointly to not cooperate with the investigation because they did not want their privates lives all over the news and tabloids. 

Without their cooperation, no charges could be brought.

People tend to have sympathy with a person who goes ballistic at the moment that they discover that their spouse is cheating. There are even 'crime of passion' considerations in such cases in court.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Tiger's wife, Nordegren, went ballistic when she found out about his latest affair. She took his cell phone to read the messages between his and one of the women he was cheating with. In the struggle she did hit him and scratch his face. Then Tiger ran out of the house, she ran after him with a golf club. He got into his car and crashed into a tree down the road.
> 
> Yes she was violent in scratching him and chasing him with a golf club.
> 
> ...


You forgot the part where she was smashing out his windows with the golf club which caused him to crash.

So, if the roles were reversed, this would be acceptable and not domestic violence?

If your wife cheats, you can scratch her face and chase her with a golf club while destroying her car.. Good to know..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> At the end of the day, domestic violence is almost always bi directional.. It is 2 people abusing each other. It is far more complex than mean man vs sweet and innocent woman.
> 
> The true nature of domestic violence is not as emotionally satisfying as turning this into a violent male vs innocent female that needs to be protected narrative.


The numbers I've seen are that about 50% of domestic violence are bi-directional.

Keep in mind that if a person responds to protect themselves, its considered bi-directional.

For example my ex used to corner me, start yelling then start hurting me.. grabbing my arms, twisting them, bending back my hands, grab me by the throat. So when I could get my arms and legs free I would push him and try to get enough room between us so I could get away. As soon as I tried to get away... it became bi-directional.

What is starting to happen here is that when the police are called out for a domestic violence case, BOTH spouses go to court and both have to take anger management, counseling, etc. To me that's the way to handle this type of situation.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> Do we think Tiger Wood's wife was an abuser?
> 
> If so, I wonder why the media did not portray her as such?


Because Tiger is an A-hole loser of the highest magnitude!

I get what you are saying. False accusers are just as bad as real abusers in my book.

False accusers actually probably do just as much harm to real victims as abusers as well as harming who they are falsely accusing.

I have seen a lot of people, not just women, abuse the system. Rotten people are simply rotten, regardless of gender.

Yes, there is still a bias for women in divorce and custody cases.

Yes, that sucks.


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> If your wife cheats, you can scratch her face and chase her with a golf club while destroying her car.. Good to know..


Advice for life:
When facing false charges of abuse, be careful what you post on the Internet. It can be taken out of context and used against you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> You forgot the part where she was smashing out his windows with the golf club which caused him to crash.
> 
> So, if the roles were reversed, this would be acceptable and not domestic violence?
> 
> If your wife cheats, you can scratch her face and chase her with a golf club while destroying her car.. Good to know..


The account I frist read (today) did not mention the windows. Wither further reading now, yes she did apparently hit the windows. 

It's debatable what caused him to crash as he had taken a sleeping pill, Ambien, and was asleep when his wife went through his phone. She woke him up to confront him. So he ran was drugged at the time of the crash.

But, we have to go back to the fact that Tiger did not cooperate with the police. He apparently did not want to bring charges against her. Not a lot anyone can do about that.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Lee Girl, when my marriage was first falling apart, or I was realizing it, this was my post..

_We are going through divorce and have a three year old. 

Nothing filed yet, but she is completely 100 percent sure, according to her, and she has slept on the couch for 2 months. 

Twice in the past 2 months she went back to her country to visit. She just left me with my son, work, bills etc. She was gone a total of 19 days. 

She has been extremely non talkative unless she Is yelling for the past 2 months. I would try to fix things, and all she says is "I want divorce. I don't love you. I want divorce". No therapy or counseling. Won't even tell me why. Just says she does not love me 

So today she asked me if I want to cook out. She texted me during the day saying she was lost and "heartbroken". *So after dinner before bed, I went to hug her gently. She pulled away, and was then staring at me like I was some monster. She then went to the kitchen and stood very far away. Never, and I mean never have I hit her, threatened to, or even came close to. She has hit me. *

I calmly left then called later. She told me I also "never let her work". *She has had a job for the past year which I encouraged her to get every step of the way. I made her resume. She then said I did not let her "go to the gym" as another example of how I "controlled her". *We had one conversation years ago where I just said I didn't want another bill as I knew she would never go. That was it. We even lived at a a place with a free gym. So it seemed wasteful. 

Now keep in mind I paid every bill since we met and still do. I took excellent care of her and our son. They never needed anythjng. I never asked what she did all day, ever, in a jealous fashion. 

*It shocked me as to how she pulled away as if she was terrified. Now she is thinking everythjng is some type of "abuse". When I asked why she is doing that she just states at the tv straight ahead like I wasn't there. After she mentioned the gym membership on the phone she cried and hung up. Wouldn't answer again. 
*
Is this an emotional breakdown? Some sort of disorder? Illness? Game? I have never seen this before._

And this was your reply..

*It sounds like she's having a nervous breakdown and rewriting history. Could be an affair compounding it, but you don't seem to have any evidence for this.
*

So you also thought my story, including the rewriting of history to include "abuse" was a possible sign of an affair.. As did most other posters..

That is my point.. Often times, there is a direct correlation between a woman crying "abuse" while she is having an affair.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> You forgot the part where she was smashing out his windows with the golf club which caused him to crash.
> 
> So, if the roles were reversed, this would be acceptable and not domestic violence?


If the wife refused to cooperate with the police, they would not be able to prosecute a man who did exactly the same thing. It happens all the time.. .with women refusing to cooperate in domestic violence cases.


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

Wait a minute - do you know that your wife was cheating, or are you speculating? I think I missed something.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If the wife refused to cooperate with the police, they would not be able to prosecute a man who did exactly the same thing. It happens all the time.. .with women refusing to cooperate in domestic violence cases.


LOL,


It isn't about being prosecuted, it is about if that is domestic violence or not.. If a husband punches his wife in the face and the police do not come, it is still domestic violence, right?

I would say if a woman scratches a mans face, chases a man with a golf club, and knocks out all of his windows that is an extreme case of domestic violence. Very scary..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

that.girl said:


> Wait a minute - do you know that your wife is cheating, or are you speculating? I think I missed something.


I am divorced now.. yes she was cheating..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> So you also thought my story, including the rewriting of history to include "abuse" was a possible sign of an affair.. As did most other posters..
> 
> That is my point.. Often times, there is a direct correlation between a woman crying "abuse" while she is having an affair.


Have you even noticed on TAM that almost every time a man comes here and complains about his wife the "she's having an affair" chorus comes out of the woodwork?

In your case it just happened to be true.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> I think some on this thread are overly sensitive..


Well it's that kind of topic.

- You've been accused by a wayward wife.
- SlowlyGoingCrazy I think has been at least in a verbally abusive relationship and maybe more.
- EleGirl has been in an abusive relationship as well has her daughter. Plus Ele's husband was a respected figure (Dr) so it seems the legal system wasn't helpful.
- soccermom saw a case of unreported abuse by her neighbor.
- honcho has been accused.
- Wolf1974 and lordmayhem deal with domestic violence on a daily basis and probably feels like their hands are tied, sometimes by the system but more often by the accuser who repeatedly stays with the abuser.

Now add to the list that there's a gender divide about what constitutes abuse, plus the fact that we all have opinions, and plus the other list of things I didn't list and don't know about. I think most everyone has valid points but our various baggage (including yours) makes a lot of comments sound like sweeping generalizations as if this were not a complex problem with blame to go around.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> LOL,
> 
> 
> It isn't about being prosecuted, it is about if that is domestic violence or not.. If a husband punches his wife in the face and the police do not come, it is still domestic violence, right?
> ...


I already said that what she did is considered domestic violence. 

How many times do I have to repeat it before you comprehend that I've said it.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Some day MM321, it will get easier for you. To forget the pain.

Some day...


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Some day MM321, it will get easier for you. To forget the pain.
> 
> Some day...


I find these topics interesting..

Sure, there is pain, but I always found these topics interesting..

When your real life experiences are completely different than the media messages, it causes me to raise questions.

And I do not mean only my own real life experiences, but everyone I know or care across ..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I already said that what she did is considered domestic violence.
> 
> How many times do I have to repeat it before you comprehend that I've said it.


That is my point.. What she did was extremely violent, and she became the sympathetic figure. her extreme violence was completely overlooked as "Well he deserved it, she was mad.. He cheated"

That is the double standard we deal with, with the public perception of domestic violence.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I've been divorced seven years. Remarried for 5 in Febraury.

And it's taken til now to look back and be not just ok with my past marriage, but also look fondly of the things that once was.

I hope you can move on.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> I've been divorced seven years. Remarried for 5 in Febraury.
> 
> And it's taken til now to look back and be not just ok with my past marriage, but also look fondly of the things that once was.
> 
> I hope you can move on.


Well, I am still technically married until January. For me it has only been 2 months.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

The topics you start, yes, they need to be addressed. And I give you credit for being on the front line.

The issue is, because you ARE on the front line, you don't see how biased you can be.

That will become less and less as time passes. It's fresh for you. Some of the people here are seasoned and can talk about these issues without the loathing.

I do suggest taking some time off. Regroup for six months. Then help others tackle the world's issues, one person at a time.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> LOL,
> 
> 
> It isn't about being prosecuted, it is about if that is domestic violence or not.. If a husband punches his wife in the face and the police do not come, it is still domestic violence, right?
> ...


I think that whether or not it's prosecuted is a large part of what this is about.

Tiger and his wife never gave any statements that confirmed that his wife did any of the things that the news said she did. Without his statements and absolute proof that she did anything people can only speculate. That's the point.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

that.girl said:


> Advice for life:
> When facing false charges of abuse, be careful what you post on the Internet. It can be taken out of context and used against you.


Nearly everything can be taken out of context and used against or used to your advantage. This is why lawyers and nice houses and the police and legal system are overloaded.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> I am a victim of this, and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..


That's funny, it is completely NOT common in every divorce I've been privy to. In most cases I've known, the woman just gets tired of being the man's mommy and taken for granted. She doesn't bother with false claims.


----------



## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

I had dv charges against me. She had filed marital rape too..


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> My daughter, about 22 at the time, was staying at a female friend's apartment for the weekend. The friend invited some guy she liked over. The guy drugged my daughter. After she passed out she was laying on the kitchen floor where she fell. This guy spent hours beating on her. She said she would sort of come to.. to see him on top of her beating her, yelling at her.
> 
> Her friend did nothing to help her. When she got to the point where she could walk, she went to the bedroom and called 911.
> 
> ...


always love these threads that blame the police for all domestic violence woes. If you really believe that somehow this sheriff is dropping the charges then call the state attorney general to look into it. 

but let's not paint with such a wide brush to say that this what all police do. It's isn't and its a ridiculious notion to even present.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> Just like with marriedman, you're jumping to conclusions. Of course judges should err on the side of caution, and *that is precisely what women who lie are taking advantage of*.
> 
> The woman should be prosecuted for false reporting if she's lying. But the courts don't have time for that. Again, that's another reason why many women abuse the system, knowing they don't have to prove anything to obtain a PO.
> 
> ...


The judges should also take a minute to at least read the order before signing them. They use the excuse for err on the side of caution but some are just ridiculous. 

We need the laws and the abused need protection yet the false and wasteful claims have rendered the system useless in its current format. The police seemingly don't care because for the one that it a legit claim they have wasted how much time on false ones? 

the judges wont hold them accountable for lying even if you can prove its a lie. The first one I had to endure was based on a break in at her boyfriends house. The sherrifs dept had already conducted an investigation, they had made an arrest and the person confessed. Yet my stbx decided I still must have done it somehow so she gets an R/O. 

The very police officer handing me the papers is telling me I have been found guilty by a judge with no hearing yet the same cop made the arrest of the true criminal in the case days before. The officers only comment to me is "Judges are just stupid" R/O's you are found guilty on day one, they do not follow innocent until proven guilty. You must prove your innocence. We screw around for over 2 months in delays just so she can drop the R/O and hour before the hearing. 

By the time I get done fighting her latest theatrics I will have spent more than 15k on legal fees on this type of abuse of the system alone. If Im lucky the Judge might yell at her this time. Course he probably wont do that because she will file an R/O on him for harrassment too.....


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> always love these threads that blame the police for all domestic violence woes. If you really believe that somehow this sheriff is dropping the charges then call the state attorney general to look into it.
> 
> but let's not paint with such a wide brush to say that this what all police do. It's isn't and its a ridiculious notion to even present.


It's what happened.

Without the police ignoring it, it becomes her word against his and the girl who covered for him.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

The Temporary restraining orders have become a complete joke, with about 3 million being issued annually.

Even David Letterman had a judge approve one against him, when a woman said he has been harassing her through the television set, which caused her emotional anguish.

The reasons are obvious. During a divorce it is about money and control.. It is almost an instant way to win custody, remove the man from his home, and win almost every court proceeding in the future. (He is violent, I needed a restraining order) Yes, with lot's of money they can be fought against, but in most cases the damage is already done. Absolutely no proof of anything at all is needed.. 

And do we really think the men who will kill their wives are going to abide by the restraining order? Of course not..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> The Temporary restraining orders have become a complete joke, with about 3 million being issued annually.
> 
> Even David Letterman had a judge approve one against him, when a woman said he has been harassing her through the television set, which caused her emotional anguish.
> 
> ...


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Did you have a TRO filed against you MM321? 

and no, RO aren't the greatest tool for protecting victims. I needed to move multiple times so he wouldn't find me, as soon as I did it became void. They would have had to tell him my new address every time which would defeat the purpose. 
The one time I called when the RO was active, it didn't change anything about the way they dealt with it, They just let him walk anyway. 

So what is a better answer? The system has it's flaws but there's not a lot that can be done to fix it.

IMO the police and the courts need to treat every case like it's real unless proven otherwise. Some women will make false charges, it is no where near the amount you think it is. Some people lie about being robbed or having their house broken into. Some people lie about having their car stolen. But you don't hear about the real victims of those crimes getting treated like liars because of the few who do. When our car got stolen they made the report, listened to us. They didn't roll their eyes and say "Ya.. I'm sure it did" or "listen mam, maybe if you don't want your car stolen you shouldn't keep it parked in the driveway. We are busy people who don't have time to come running every time someone loses a car" They don't assume you gave it away unless you have physical evidence otherwise. 

Would you be willing to go through that kind of treatment for EVERY crime, every time you call the police you have to prove that a crime - with evidence, not just your word- was committed or they don't GAF?

It's not all crimes that get treated this way though. It's usually just rape and domestic abuse, both typically thought of as crimes against women by men. Why is that?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> IMO the police and the courts need to treat every case like it's real unless proven otherwise. Some women will make false charges, it is no where near the amount you think it is. Some people lie about being robbed or having their house broken into. Some people lie about having their car stolen. But you don't hear about the real victims of those crimes getting treated like liars because of the few who do. When our car got stolen they made the report, listened to us. They didn't roll their eyes and say "Ya.. I'm sure it did" or "listen mam, maybe if you don't want your car stolen you shouldn't keep it parked in the driveway. We are busy people who don't have time to come running every time someone loses a car" They don't assume you gave it away unless you have physical evidence otherwise.
> 
> Would you be willing to go through that kind of treatment for EVERY crime, every time you call the police you have to prove that a crime - with evidence, not just your word- was committed or they don't GAF?
> 
> It's not all crimes that get treated this way though. It's usually just rape and domestic abuse, both typically thought of as crimes against women by men. Why is that?


Treated like what is real? What is the complaint you are making that says he should have his freedom taken away, lose his kids, and have a mark on him forever? 

Once again, I showed you how easy it is to get a TRO with no evidence. Millions are granted every year. What is unfair?


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It's what happened.
> 
> Without the police ignoring it, it becomes her word against his and the girl who covered for him.


That's what hapoend to your word in that case involving one or few deputies. That's is NOT most


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Treated like what is real? What is the complaint you are making that says he should have his freedom taken away, lose his kids, and have a mark on him forever?
> 
> Once again, I showed you how easy it is to get a TRO with no evidence. Millions are granted every year. What is unfair?


You didn't answer my questions.

1. Did you have a TRO filed against you (this is personal so I understand wanting to keep it private) 
But I would like to know your solution to fix this issue so
2. What would you change about the system?
3. If a DV victim is treated as lying until proven otherwise, is that how all crime victims should be treated?
4. Why do you think this issue usually is limited to only rape and DV issues?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You didn't answer my questions.
> 
> 1. Did you have a TRO filed against you (this is personal so I understand wanting to keep it private)
> But I would like to know your solution to fix this issue so
> ...


I am not sure if you even understand or not..

I just told you how TRO's are granted with zero evidence.. Yes, that is the only "crime" where people are prosecuted with zero evidence.. Almost always men..


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Wolf1974 said:


> That's what hapoend to your word in that case involving one or few deputies. That's is NOT most


But there is enough of it that it is an issue that needs working on. Many of the people I was in the shelter with had given up on authorities due to poor treatment. I was one as well.

I also met an amazing police officer during that time so I know it's not all of them. But all it takes is one bad experience for a victim to give up (since it already took a lot to get them to try in the first place) and that could literally get them killed. That is a serious issue IMO.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I am not sure if you even understand or not..
> 
> I just told you how TRO's are granted with zero evidence.. Yes, that is the only "crime" where people are prosecuted with zero evidence.. Almost always men..


I have read that part. I'm wanting to know what your solution is. 

But also- no one is prosecuted. It's not a jail sentence, it's not a trial. It's a stay away from your wife for a while so we can sort this out order. 

So you are the judge- what do you do?


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> Well, I am speaking of women who file for divorce. Not all wives..
> 
> it seems abuse has become a term that is very overused.. And it is a one way street.


At the start of my divorce proceedings, the Judge signed two TPO's, one for him, one for me. It's a standard protocol procedure to keep two warring parties away from each other. Prevelant in the Great State of Ohio.

It didn't mean either of us were doing anything wrong. It's a way to ensure the peace.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I have read that part. I'm wanting to know what your solution is.
> 
> But also- no one is prosecuted. It's not a jail sentence, it's not a trial. It's a stay away from your wife for a while so we can sort this out order.
> 
> So you are the judge- what do you do?


Solution to what? What crime was committed? you are arguing with your husband? I think everyone would be in jail at some point then.. He said mean things? You said mean things?

What you don't understand is that MANY women call the police just when they are mad at their spouse.. It isn't rare.. It would be insane to start locking up guys because their wife was mad..Thats why proof of something is needed..


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Solution to what? What crime was committed? you are arguing with your husband? I think everyone would be in jail at some point then.. He said mean things? You said mean things?
> 
> What you don't understand is that MANY women call the police just when they are mad at their spouse.. It isn't rare.. It would be insane to start locking up guys because their wife was mad..Thats why proof of something is needed..


No one is being locked up or going to jail

Are you saying a TRO should not be issued without solid proof that the victim was abused?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No one is being locked up or going to jail
> 
> Are you saying a TRO should not be issued without solid proof that the victim was abused?


The problem is that lots of psycho and overly emotional women use it as a way to win custody, kick their husbands out, and gain an advantage during a divorce case.

I don't even think the govt belongs in your interpersonal lives unless there is some sort of violence..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No one is being locked up or going to jail
> 
> Are you saying a TRO should not be issued without solid proof that the victim was abused?


We are talking about 2 different things.. When you call the police to your home, or the TRO order..

When you call the police to your home, you can't say "Hey please lock my husband up.. He is mean"


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No one is being locked up or going to jail
> 
> Are you saying a TRO should not be issued without solid proof that the victim was abused?


What is abused? He hurt your feelings? He gave you 2 black eyes? I guess both can be considered abuse..


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I don't even think the govt belongs in your interpersonal lives unless there is some sort of violence..


Would violence include emotional/mental abuse or are you talking only physical?



marriedman321 said:


> We are talking about 2 different things.. When you call the police to your home, or the TRO order..
> 
> When you call the police to your home, you can't say "Hey please lock my husband up.. He is mean"


I am talking about the one that actually does happen, the TRO. No one has suggested that men should be locked up for being mean.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But there is enough of it that it is an issue that needs working on. Many of the people I was in the shelter with had given up on authorities due to poor treatment. I was one as well.
> 
> *I also met an amazing police officer during that time so I know it's not all of them*. But all it takes is one bad experience for a victim to give up (since it already took a lot to get them to try in the first place) and that could literally get them killed. That is a serious issue IMO.


I have a friend whose husband called the police on her for threatening him with a knife. She said it was a paring knife while she was chopping or peeling some vegetables.

The police came and the husband talked to them. Afterwards, one of the policeman took my friend aside and gave her a card for a shelter. He told her, "Mrs. B, you are being mentally and emotionally abused." 

Sharp dude.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Would violence include emotional/mental abuse or are you talking only physical?
> 
> 
> 
> I am talking about the one that actually does happen, the TRO. No one has suggested that men should be locked up for being mean.


I think, the purpose of these orders, in an ideal world, would be because your life is in imminent danger.. And you have serious reason to believe this.. If you are someone who has called the police 20 times over the years with no proof any crime, it seems your life is not in danger and somewhere in that time period you should have left.

They are not for mental abuse, or emotional abuse, or someone calling you a name. 


The sad part is that far to many women lie to obtain one because they want an apprehend in a divorce.


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> The problem is that lots of psycho and overly emotional women use it as a way to win custody, kick their husbands out, and gain an advantage during a divorce case.


Standard stock answer. Women are as a collective clearly overly emotional, abusive, and mentally ill if not psycho. 

What is abused? He hurt your feelings? He gave you 2 black eyes? I guess both can be considered abuse.. 



> What is abused? He hurt your feelings? He gave you 2 black eyes? I guess both can be considered abuse..


Wow. I'm not really sure what you meant by this, but what I heard was "I mean, how bad is it - really?"


----------



## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

And now victim blaming!

You just should have left! He controls all the finances and you have no money and no place for your children? Too bad!



> The sad part is that far to many women lie to obtain one because they want an apprehend in a divorce.


Do we have any kind of source or facts for this or is this all purely anecdotal derived from what happened with you personally?


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> What is abused? He hurt your feelings? He gave you 2 black eyes? I guess both can be considered abuse..




Having lived through both physical and emotional, it's hard to say which is worse.

Yes, he hit me, poured boiling water on my legs when I f*ed up dinner, kicked me, knocked me unconscious. 

But he also would lock me outside in the snow in shorts and a tshirt no shoes when I was bad, tell me he would kill me if I left him, took money from his friend to let him sexually assault me, kept every cent from me so I couldn't even eat unless he let me- FTR I was 50 pounds under my regular weight when I left him *and I was pregnant*, he didn't let me eat often. Take my clothes from me, stop sex with me to go finish with another woman - in the next room- if I wasn't good enough. 

The walking on egg shells, the knowing if I wake him for work I would get a punishment but if I let him sleep in, I would get a punishment.... being too scared to move. That's what I remember most. He had already convinced my family I was crazy, they felt bad for him having to deal with it. 


I couldn't prove any of it in court. I didn't have the marks on me and I got good at avoiding punishments so I wouldn't get new ones. 

Should I have waited for the next physical assault to leave? The next one might be the one where he kills you. You know that. It's too risky. 

So what is your suggestion for emotional and mental abuse situations in court?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Starstarfish said:


> And now victim blaming!
> 
> You just should have left! He controls all the finances and you have no money and no place for your children? Too bad!
> 
> ...


What?

it is true... Every divorce attorney i spoke to warned me about it.. The policeman on this thread, who has experience, mentioned this.

many women lie to get a TPO as it gives them a huge advantage in a divorce case.. What is wrong with that statement?


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But there is enough of it that it is an issue that needs working on. Many of the people I was in the shelter with had given up on authorities due to poor treatment. I was one as well.
> 
> I also met an amazing police officer during that time so I know it's not all of them. But all it takes is one bad experience for a victim to give up (since it already took a lot to get them to try in the first place) and that could literally get them killed. That is a serious issue IMO.


I've seen the cycle of abuse with my mom and step dad and honestly, many victims sabotage anyone trying to help them and they do it repeatedly until no one feels like helping at all. They run to a family member or the police or a shelter but then go right back to Mr man thinking he'll change. Eventually family is angry and police want to avoid going to a house where any charges are always dropped as well. Shelters have a few of these victims but make no mistake. They are victims of the abuser but they are also victims or themselves.

I'm just mentioning that additional dynamic because I've seen it.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Having lived through both physical and emotional, it's hard to say which is worse.
> 
> Yes, he hit me, poured boiling water on my legs when I f*ed up dinner, kicked me, knocked me unconscious.
> 
> ...


So when he poured boiling water on your legs, scalding them, and you called the police, they said what? When he knocked you out, and you called the police, they said what? When you were raped and called the police they said what?


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

It is terrible how he treated you, SGC. I am so glad you finally got away from him.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Having lived through both physical and emotional, it's hard to say which is worse.
> 
> Yes, he hit me, poured boiling water on my legs when I f*ed up dinner, kicked me, knocked me unconscious.
> 
> ...


Everything you mentioned would have a TON of evidence, so this entire conversation isn't even relevant. What you detailed is physical assault. You really cannot do those things to someone and not leave marks.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> So when he poured boiling water on your legs, scalding them, and you called the police, they said what? When he knocked you out, and you called the police, they said what? When you were raped and called the police they said what?


I didn't at first, I didn't even have a phone and if I did there's no way he would have let me get to it. 
Sometimes neighbors would call but we moved a lot. When they would, he would convince them that I was just dramatic and he was a good guy, trying to calm the situation down and they would believe him and wish him a good night and leave. 

After I left him and he kept coming back to assault me, I called. One time he knocked me out, stole all my money and left me there on the floor. When I came out of it my new baby was crying, I don't even know how long I was there. I called the police. They came about 6 hours later and I was sleeping. I heard the banging on the door and called the station to ask them to confirm it was their officers before I opened it. That got a laugh out of them. Basically, nothing they could do. He was gone, I didn't have any visible marks on me. Better luck next time. 

Another time I had called, he was breaking into my house. Trying to smash the window. Had almost got though it when the police arrived. He told them how worried he was about his son, because I was crazy. Also that I had invited him earlier but was p*ssed off that he was moving on with his life and that he didn't want to come see me. They laughed with him outside for a while and then let him go. 
I was told "If I don't want to see him, don't call him" I didn't
and that he has the right to come check on his son and that I was abusing the 911 system. They also called CPS to follow up with me... cause I was crazy. (They luckily saw through the BS and closed up my file quickly)


You need to understand that fixing the system to assume the victim is lying until proven otherwise has the potential for serious consequences. Much worse than having a TPO filed against you. Like a previous poster said, it's the lesser of 2 evils.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I didn't at first, I didn't even have a phone and if I did there's no way he would have let me get to it.


Well I guess we can't blame the system if they weren't even alerted when you had actual evidence..


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

SGC, did he accuse you or tell other people that you had BPD? It sounds like the kind of thing he might've done, just to avoid taking responsibility for his own actions.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well I guess we can't blame the system if they weren't even alerted when you had actual evidence..


No, I understand they did what they could given the situation then. I am upset about my treatment when I did try to get help and I worry about women in similar circumstances if the system forces victims to prove their own crime before action is taken. 
Mine is just 1 story out of millions, each one different. Not all victims will have marks or evidence, not all victims are even physically abused. There has to be something to protect them. 
What would you suggest?


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy, I'm sorry for what you went through.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

jld said:


> SGC, did he accuse you or tell other people that you had BPD? It sounds like the kind of thing he might've done, just to avoid taking responsibility for his own actions.


He never used the term BDP although if he knew it I'm sure he would have. He used crazy, irrational, dramatic, paranoid, he would call my Mother for advice on how to deal with it. Most of his friends felt for him, for having to put up with me.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No, I understand they did what they could given the situation then. I am upset about my treatment when I did try to get help and I worry about women in similar circumstances if the system forces victims to prove their own crime before action is taken.
> Mine is just 1 story out of millions, each one different. Not all victims will have marks or evidence, not all victims are even physically abused. There has to be something to protect them.
> What would you suggest?


I don't believe it is good to rely on the govt to fix your problems. If you were being raped, burned, and knocked out it would be a situation to press full charges and escape immediately. 

If you end up with an emotional abuser, as I did, you have to deal with it and figure it out on your own
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

MarriedMan, you need help. Just like wilderness did.

You can't see anything beyond your own version of the truth. You lack a knowledge base-other than your own deeply skewed experience- on which to base your opinions.

In each circumstance in this thread in which you have been confronted with real life events from other posters you have completely disregarded their experience and pain and turned it right back to your deeply held beliefs that you are the victim.

You are a classic abuser. You are the only one who is allowed to victim chair. You are the only one treated badly. You are the only one who has been treated unjustly. To each circumstance revealed to you by others, you reply with more blaming tactics.

You need help but you're not going to find it here at TAM.

I predict, hope, it's only a matter of time before you are permanently banned because your acid isn't welcome here.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> MarriedMan, you need help. Just like wilderness did.
> 
> You can't see anything beyond your own version of the truth. You lack a knowledge base-other than your own deeply skewed experience- on which to base your opinions.
> 
> ...


Lol.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> Lol. Is this on topic? We also have an officer stating the same thing I am. Anything to add to the discussion?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> No, I understand they did what they could given the situation then. I am upset about my treatment when I did try to get help and I worry about women in similar circumstances if the system forces victims to prove their own crime before action is taken.
> Mine is just 1 story out of millions, each one different. Not all victims will have marks or evidence, not all victims are even physically abused. *There has to be something to protect them.
> What would you suggest?*


Maybe more education on the psychology and warning signs of this type of abuse for law enforcement. Maybe Wolf1974 or Lordmayhem will say it's already being done but I don't think it is. I have suspicion that shelters are where battered spouses actually find help from someone who knows the psychology behind it. But people who've never been in something like this will have hard time understanding it. I don't understand it.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Maybe more education on the psychology and warning signs of this type of abuse for law enforcement. Maybe Wolf1974 or Lordmayhem will say it's already being done but I don't think it is. I have suspicion that shelters are where battered spouses actually find help from someone who knows the psychology behind it. But people who've never been in something like this will have hard time understanding it. I don't understand it.


How often do two people play a role in these fights? Do both realize they are emotionally abusive to each other?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I just solved your problem and you aren't even grateful? That's okay. I understand that not everyone is ready to look in the mirror when it is held up to their faces, so I don't really expect gratitude.

You do need help. I sincerely hope you get it.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> I just solved your problem and you aren't even grateful? That's okay. I understand that not everyone is ready to look in the mirror when it is held up to their faces, so I don't really expect gratitude.
> 
> You do need help. I sincerely hope you get it.


I started a topic about a specific subject. And it gets totally thrown off track. Yes, tro's are used to gain an advantage in divorce. Would you agree or disagree?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

That's not quite fair Anon. If MM123 was a victim of false accusations then why would we expect his view to be as objective as someone who's never been on either side of this. Same with SlowlyGoingCrazy. It would be asking a lot for us to expect her to and MM123 to understand each other coming from such opposite directions on the topic.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> I started a topic about a specific subject. And it gets totally thrown off track. Yes, tro's are used to gain an advantage in divorce. Would you agree or disagree?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And as all threads do, this one has meandered through the topic.

Does this mean you are backing off the statements you made in your original post?

What affect does a TRO have in a mediated divorce settlement in which you don't owe alimony? Your facts and suppositions aren't lining up.

Fact, your wife wanted out of your marriage.
Fact, she had a lover towards the end.
Fact, SHE did not seek alimony.
Fact, your divorce was mediated.

So how does a TRO affect your divorce? How does a TRO affect alimony? 

Answer: it doesn't. 

Conclusion: you have probably been doing something that caused her to seek court ordered space from you.

Assumption based on the above... You feel victimized and are now blaming all women, the court system and the police for your own behavior.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> How often do two people play a role in these fights? Do both realize they are emotionally abusive to each other?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My guess is that both parties usually play a part. Sometimes there's a clear abuser and victim but when the cycle repeated over and over then that's a red flag that both are part of the problem not getting resolved. And sometimes it's just two people being nasty to each other and one labels the other with abuse when it's actually quite mutual. We always talk about teaching people how to treat us here at TAM and abuse is the extreme of that concept.

I'm torn feeling bad for you as well as SlowlyGoingCrazy because you were both treated like doormats. The thing is, you're not her bad guy and she's not your bad guy.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> That's not quite fair Anon. If MM123 was a victim of false accusations then why would we expect his view to be as objective as someone who's never been on either side of this. Same with SlowlyGoingCrazy. It would be asking a lot for us to expect her to and MM123 to understand each other coming from such opposite directions on the topic.


I think it is easier for anon to pigeon hole me as some scorned guy because he or she doesn't like the message. 

Once I was going through this divorce I opened up to friends. Employees. Fellow business owners. Clients. And I was simply amazed at how many men are going through, or have went through an almost identical situation. 

It isn't on the news, and men don't go around bragging about it. But so many women today DO use the threat of the the police state to gain an advantage in a divorce, in a marriage in a relationship. 

If stating that means I need help then so be it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> That's not quite fair Anon. If MM123 was a victim of false accusations then why would we expect his view to be as objective as someone who's never been on either side of this. Same with SlowlyGoingCrazy. It would be asking a lot for us to expect her to and MM123 to understand each other coming from such opposite directions on the topic.


What exactly is a TRO? It is a simple order from the judge telling MM123 that he can't come within so may feet of his ex, nor contact her. It also has an expiration date and some teeth.

BFD! Anyone can lie and get a TRO but how does a TRO actually harm MM123? He doesn't owe alimony and his divorce is being mediated. All he has to do is respect the terms of the TRO and he's fine.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

Oh and back to the original topic. I think there are more abuse claims during divorce because that's when a previously non-abusive man or woman is lashing out and very angry(hurt). That's when a man who treated his wife well by his opinion is more likely to throw out threats and things like (if I can't have you then no one can) type stuff. That's why these types of TRO are not factored into settlements and such if there's not a prior history of abuse.

The problem is, sometimes these are not idle threats at all. The other problem is when a woman has been abused for years but never reported it then the police don't have any way to know if she's telling the truth or not.

In short, this topic sucks from several angles.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> What exactly is a TRO? It is a simple order from the judge telling MM123 that he can't come within so may feet of his ex, nor contact her. It also has an expiration date and some teeth.
> 
> BFD! Anyone can lie and get a TRO but how does a TRO actually harm MM123? He doesn't owe alimony and his divorce is being mediated. All he has to do is respect the terms of the TRO and he's fine.


Are you kidding? How does it harm someone? Lol

So your emotional spouse gets an attorney. Attorney advises her to get a tro if she feels inlook at her the wrong way. The whole point to court is winning right?

Police come, and infront of your kids tell you to leave. Just get out. You can't see your kids. You have no other place to live. But you still had to pay the bills for the house. Then you go to court and judge decides to keep the status quo. Kids are fine without dad. 

Then you go to court, and judge sees you have been accused of violence. Guess what. Think you have a chance at xustody? wife then also might say down the line "see. I had to have him removed. I am taking the kids out of state". The ramifications don't end.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Oh and back to the original topic. I think there are more abuse claims during divorce because that's when a previously non-abusive man or woman is lashing out and very angry(hurt). That's when a man who treated his wife well by his opinion is more likely to throw out threats and things like (if I can't have you then no one can) type stuff. That's why these types of TRO are not factored into settlements and such if there's not a prior history of abuse.
> 
> The problem is, sometimes these are not idle threats at all. The other problem is when a woman has been abused for years but never reported it then the police don't have any way to know if she's telling the truth or not.
> 
> *In short, this topic sucks from several angles*.



Exactly. This is why a TRO is T--- Temporary! Respect the TRO and it is allows to expire. Don't respect the TRO and judges tend to get mighty upset when their orders are not followed!

No one has ever denied that some some women are nuts! No one has ever denied that these women are vindictive b!tches who would stoop to lying and abusing the court system to get a better foothold in a divorce.

However, respect the judges order and things will be fine. A TRO is NOT a prosecution, nor a sentence, nor a conviction. It is a temporary order from the judge telling you to stay the hell away or else. No if you decide NOT to stay away..then the consequences are totally on you.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> Are you kidding? How does it harm someone? Lol
> 
> So your emotional spouse gets an attorney. Attorney advises her to get a tro if she feels inlook at her the wrong way. The whole point to court is winning right?
> 
> ...



Exactly who's case are you talking about with your righteous indignation here? Your wife moved in with her lover, so you haven't been kicked out of your home.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Exactly. This is why a TRO is T--- Temporary! Respect the TRO and it is allows to expire. Don't respect the TRO and judges tend to get mighty upset when their orders are not followed!
> 
> No one has ever denied that some some women are nuts! No one has ever denied that these women are vindictive b!tches who would stoop to lying and abusing the court system to get a better foothold in a divorce.
> 
> However, respect the judges order and things will be fine. A TRO is NOT a prosecution, nor a sentence, nor a conviction. It is a temporary order from the judge telling you to stay the hell away or else. No if you decide NOT to stay away..then the consequences are totally on you.


What don't you get? Once a woman lawyers up attorneys encourage this. And the main thing for custody is to " keep the status quo". Since no proof of anything is needed, it is an easy way to win. So it is a big deal. 

I can't speak on injustice when I see it? 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

marriedman321 said:


> I think it is easier for anon to pigeon hole me as some scorned guy because he or she doesn't like the message.


I think Anon saw a few comments where SlowlyGoingCrazy opened up and shared some hurtful past with us and she saw that your replies to her were not empathetic at all. I get why you're angry about false accusations and why SGC is sensitive to this topic and also why Anon felt compelled to defend her. Anyone feel free to tell me I'm an idiot and have misrepresent you if I've speculated incorrectly.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> I think Anon saw a few comments where SlowlyGoingCrazy opened up and shared some hurtful past with us and she saw that your replies to her were not empathetic at all. I get why you're angry about false accusations and why SGC is sensitive to this topic and also why Anon felt compelled to defend her.


No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> What don't you get? Once a woman lawyers up attorneys encourage this. And the main thing for custody is to " keep the status quo". Since no proof of anything is needed, it is an easy way to win. So it is a big deal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you not read thundarr's post above?



> That's why these types of TRO are not factored into settlements and such if there's not a prior history of abuse.


I notice you completely ignore rational posts and only respond with more victimization posts.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They confuse you because you cannot see beyond your victim speak.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Many women don't but that's not my point.

My point, or at least what it was trying to be, was that mental abuse is real and can be just as damaging and dangerous as physical. The physical abuse was fairly rare in my case. The mental was enough to keep me in line. The fear alone was enough to be abusive. 
That's what women are getting PO for, because they are in fear. 

You say keep the gov't out of mental/emotional abuse matters and let them figure it out for themselves. But that means waiting until it's physical to do something about it and that could be deadly.
Your solution means that a few men might be saved the hassle of an undeserved TRO while other people will literally die. Is it worth it?


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> I think Anon saw a few comments where SlowlyGoingCrazy opened up and shared some hurtful past with us and she saw that your replies to her were not empathetic at all. I get why you're angry about false accusations and why SGC is sensitive to this topic and also why Anon felt compelled to defend her. Anyone feel free to tell me I'm an idiot and have misrepresent you if I've speculated incorrectly.


Elegirl described a story of an abusive situation with her ex-husband over her son's hair cut and mm321 implied that she didn't respect her husband enough.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> Elegirl described a story of an abusive situation with her ex-husband over her son's hair cut and mm321 implied that she didn't respect her husband enough.


No. I said that if I did that to my sons hair my wife would be furious. So knowing that I respected her wishes to have it longer. Not a huge deal to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Many women don't but that's not my point.
> 
> My point, or at least what it was trying to be, was that mental abuse is real and can be just as damaging and dangerous as physical. The physical abuse was fairly rare in my case. The mental was enough to keep me in line. The fear alone was enough to be abusive.
> That's what women are getting PO for, because they are in fear.
> ...


About 3 million tro's are filed annually in the usa. They aren't "saving lives" as a guy willing to commit murder would also be willing to break the tro
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> About 3 million tro's are filed annually in the usa. They aren't "saving lives" as a guy willing to commit murder would also be willing to break the tro
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


They can help. It can make the authorities aware of the situation, make them take it seriously if they catch him near you, have a record of it so you can build a case against them. Yes, they do save lives. Not all. They are not perfect but that doesn't mean they are useless. 

What would be your criteria for granting a TPO? Would it need to include actual evidence of physical abuse?


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> What don't you get? Once a woman lawyers up attorneys encourage this. And the main thing for custody is to " keep the status quo". Since no proof of anything is needed, it is an easy way to win. So it is a big deal.
> 
> I can't speak on injustice when I see it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dude, nobody is WINNING. It is a STANDARD protocol in a divorce situation to keep two parties away from each other. And YOU are taking this as a personal slight. It happens to EVERY divorce situation.

Face it, you ain't that special.

And for telling anybody within earshot of your personal mess... Grow up.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> Dude, nobody is WINNING. It is a STANDARD protocol in a divorce situation to keep two parties away from each other. And YOU are taking this as a personal slight. It happens to EVERY divorce situation.
> 
> Face it, you ain't that special.
> 
> And for telling anybody within earshot of your personal mess... Grow up.


I think you are confused. They aren't standard protocol anywhere lol. It means one person is removed from children and their home based on false allegations.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

It certainly can be applied in this way.

But YOU were SERVED divorce papers. A TPO is an automatic order from the Judge. AUTOMATiC.

But nooooo, don't believe lil ole me. It's not like "I" haven't gone through a divorce or anything!

Dude, chill out! Really, I DO know certain facts. And this is one of them.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Revamped said:


> Dude, nobody is WINNING. It is a STANDARD protocol in a divorce situation to keep two parties away from each other. And YOU are taking this as a personal slight. It happens to EVERY divorce situation.
> 
> Face it, you ain't that special.
> 
> And for telling anybody within earshot of your personal mess... Grow up.


I don't think his wife got a TRO, from what I can tell it was a quick divorce, no alimony and I don't think it affected his custody situation. She seems to have told her friends and family that one reason she left was that he was controlling and went to a DV support group which gave her sympathy and he feels that is unfair but I'm not sure what, if anything, else happened to trigger this idea that most women falsely claim . 
DV so they can look better in court.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I don't think his wife got a TRO, from what I can tell it was a quick divorce, no alimony and I don't think it affected his custody situation. She seems to have told her friends and family that one reason she left was that he was controlling and went to a DV support group which gave her sympathy and he feels that is unfair but I'm not sure what, if anything, else happened to trigger this idea that most women falsely claim .
> DV so they can look better in court.


Yes. Never happens. All my imagination. Women never lie. Nobody lies. Men are abusers that need to be kicked out or locked up with no proof. Carry on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am a victim of this, and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..


You aren't a VICTIM.

A TPO/TRO is initiated by the judge when a divorce hearing lands in his/her Court room. It's standard protocol. When MEN file for divorce, a woman has a TPO/TRO initiated for HER. It's to keep them SEPARATED. But you ain't complaining about THAT...


----------



## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Op. you are quoting the divorce shyster's bible in that pamphlet.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Revamped said:


> You aren't a VICTIM.
> 
> A TPO/TRO is initiated by the judge when a divorce hearing lands in his/her Court room. It's standard protocol. When MEN file for divorce, a woman has a TPO/TRO initiated for HER. It's to keep them SEPARATED. But you ain't complaining about THAT...


What are you talkjng about? When you file for divorce no issue is ordered. Millions of couples live together while divorcing. Now you are just making thjngs up. I am the one that filed for divorce anyway. There was no issue ordered. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> I think, the purpose of these orders, in an ideal world, would be because your life is in imminent danger.. And you have serious reason to believe this.. If you are someone who has called the police 20 times over the years with no proof any crime, it seems your life is not in danger and somewhere in that time period you should have left.
> 
> They are not for mental abuse, or emotional abuse, or someone calling you a name.


TROs are not for mental abuse? Not for emotional abuse? Not surprising you'd say that. 

And I still haven't seen you answer THE QUESTION: 

Have YOU had a TRO assigned against YOU?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> *Everything *you mentioned would have a TON of evidence, so this entire conversation isn't even relevant. What you detailed is physical assault. You really cannot do those things to someone and not leave marks.


Really? Even these, which were in the same post? So EVERYTHING leaves a ton of evidence? Selective hearing, to prove YOUR point.



> But he also would *lock me outside* in the snow in shorts and a tshirt no shoes when I was bad, *tell me he would kill me* if I left him, *took money from his friend to let him sexually assault me*, *kept every cent from me* so I *couldn't even eat unless he let me*- FTR I was 50 pounds under my regular weight when I left him *and I was pregnant*, he didn't let me eat often. *Take my clothes from me*, stop sex with me to *go finish with another woman - in the next room- if I wasn't good enough*.
> 
> The walking on egg shells, the knowing *if I wake him for work I would get a punishment but if I let him sleep in, I would get a punishment*.... being too scared to move. That's what I remember most. He had already *convinced my family I was crazy*, they felt bad for him having to deal with it.


And, just so you know, the abusive men, when the women DO dare to leave, it's THEN that the men become even more dangerous, that they REALLY need the TRO. Mine followed me to my girlfriend's house and stalked me there. He followed me to my apartment so I could no longer go there. He showed up at my work every day and harassed me. For months and months after I left him. And guess what? He never physically touched me, before this happened. So according to YOUR standards, I wouldn't be allowed to have a TRO cos he never hit me.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Remember The Gong Show?

Where's the long hook...


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

turnera said:


> Really? Even these, which were in the same post? So EVERYTHING leaves a ton of evidence? Selective hearing, to prove YOUR point.
> 
> And, just so you know, the abusive men, when the women DO dare to leave, it's THEN that the men become even more dangerous, that they REALLY need the TRO. Mine followed me to my girlfriend's house and stalked me there. He followed me to my apartment so I could no longer go there. He showed up at my work every day and harassed me. For months and months after I left him. And guess what? He nevertheless physically touched me, before this happened. So according to YOUR standards, I wouldn't be allowed to have a TRO cos he never hit me.


Yeah. Every guy is tht guy. Funny you mention that though. I bumped into my wife at target and she called to tell her lawyer I was stalking her. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

So what have we concluded? Is it common? Doesn't seem it. I know that I know of no cases.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> So what have we concluded? Is it common? Doesn't seem it. I know that I know of no cases.


We have concluded that nobody can stay on topic. They start telling their personal abuse stories. 

But I stand by my theory. If a woman is having an affair, the abuse allegations will start flying. Whether it be to friends, family, lawyers, or to police. The easiest way to win a case, as well as removing responsibility for cheating from yourself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> I think it is easier for anon to pigeon hole me as some scorned guy because he or she doesn't like the message.


You mean your message that women are evil predators who will abuse the system just to stick it to the men?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah, that's why abuse victims are called abuse VICTIMS - they become so demoralized, so untrusting, so hopeless, so afraid, that even if a cop is standing two feet away, they won't admit what the husband is doing because they KNOW that nothing will happen to him and he'll be even madder at her and punish her even worse. 

Educate yourself about abuse before you go around dismissing people and telling them what they should be doing about it.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

turnera said:


> You mean your message that women are evil predators who will abuse the system just to stick it to the men?


Ummmm. Did I say that? Or are you saying that? Read the post above this one. Thanks
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> Yeah. Every guy is tht guy. Funny you mention that though. I bumped into my wife at target and she called to tell her lawyer I was stalking her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Pretty much every emotional abuser IS that guy; he hates to lose; you're his property and you don't GET to leave him unless he says so. When I broke up with my fiance he wouldn't leave for 3 hours. Then he went outside and took the rotor out of my car so I couldn't leave. Then he came back up and started haranguing me again, for hours. I finally left, found out my car wouldn't start, and started running down the street to find a phone (no cellphones back then) to call for help.

And maybe you were.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Here is what you did say...




marriedman321 said:


> *I am a victim of this, *and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..
> 
> Now when i was young, I thought abuse meant coming home and yelling and screaming *for no reason,* throwing your wife around, hitting her etc.
> 
> ...



You know why women have absolutely NO empathy for guys like you? Because you are never even slightly to blame. You did everything right and perfect! You moan and whine about how unfairly your being treated while you completely ignore the VERY REAL danger a lot of women face and the reason why TRO's have to be taken seriously. Because their lives are in danger.

Good god man, spend some time reading threads made by wives here! You'll find a whole host of problems they're having in their marriages, and they're here to try to FIX IT!

But you won't, you're so stuck in your victim mode you have no way of seeing anything other than your pain, and for that I pity you.

I sincerely hope you get some real help!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321,

what state do you live in? I'm looking up the laws for TROs and would like to see the ones in your state.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I am not sure if you even understand or not..
> 
> I just told you how TRO's are granted with zero evidence.. Yes, that is the only "crime" where people are prosecuted with zero evidence.. Almost always men..


SlowlyGoingCrazy asked you some very legitimate questions about TROs and a SOLUTION.. you ignored them. I would be very good to hear your take on it.



SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> You didn't answer my questions.
> 
> 1. Did you have a TRO filed against you (this is personal so I understand wanting to keep it private)
> But I would like to know your solution to fix this issue so
> ...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Revamped said:


> At the start of my divorce proceedings, the Judge signed two TPO's, one for him, one for me. It's a standard protocol procedure to keep two warring parties away from each other. Prevelant in the Great State of Ohio.
> 
> It didn't mean either of us were doing anything wrong. It's a way to ensure the peace.


That's the way it is there as well. A TPO that tells both parties to stay away and not harass and otherwise harm each other is standard procedure. I agree with this, both parties need to have this as a strong reminder that they need to behave.

It's been like this here since at least the early 1990's.

So maybe that's a solution that ALL states need to adopt.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I have read that part. I'm wanting to know what your solution is.
> 
> *But also- no one is prosecuted. It's not a jail sentence, it's not a trial. It's a stay away from your wife for a while so we can sort this out order. *
> 
> So you are the judge- what do you do?


This is the point, it's not a criminal conviction... 

Every TRO I've read states that both parties need to stay away from each other.

I found a copy of the California TRO blank form. Note the language:

It talks about "probably validity"... 

http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/cd200.pdf


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> The problem is that lots of psycho and overly emotional women use it as a way to win custody, kick their husbands out, and gain an advantage during a divorce case.
> 
> I don't even think the govt belongs in your interpersonal lives unless there is some sort of violence..


A TRO is not proof of anything. No one wins custody based on a TRO only.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I think, the purpose of these orders, in an ideal world, would be because your life is in imminent danger.. And you have serious reason to believe this.. If you are someone who has called the police 20 times over the years with no proof any crime, it seems your life is not in danger and somewhere in that time period you should have left.
> 
> They are not for mental abuse, or emotional abuse, or someone calling you a name.
> 
> ...


No one "apprehends" a divorce. They file for a divorce. They get a divorce.

A TRO is not needed to get a divorce.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Having lived through both physical and emotional, it's hard to say which is worse.
> 
> Yes, he hit me, poured boiling water on my legs when I f*ed up dinner, kicked me, knocked me unconscious.
> 
> ...


OMG, I am so sorry you were put through this.

You bring up two very important points.... 

Most abuse occurs behind closed doors so no outsiders see it. And most abusers are very good a looking like a good guy to outsiders. They often paint their victim as nuts and in other bad light so that any thing the victim does say to friends and family members is pushed aside as "she's nuts", "she's overly emotional".

A victim of abuse has to be very careful when she leaves because that is the MOST dangerous time. 

The single most dangerous time for a female victim of abuse is the 3rd time she leaves him. The probably of her being killed at this point is very high.

This is why, whenever anyone says they are being abused (especially physically abused) never advise them to go back. If they are still with the abuser, advise them on how to create an exit plan to get our safely .... and so that they don't doubt themselves and go back.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

In wis. The moment a tro is put in effect you have been found guilty and treated as guilty for as long as its in effect. The accuser has no rules they need to follow and have free reign to do whatever they please. The police explained all sorts of ways she could try to get me to violate without any consequences to her. California may state both parties can't contact each other but its not like that in all States
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> What?
> 
> it is true... Every divorce attorney i spoke to warned me about it.. The policeman on this thread, who has experience, mentioned this.
> 
> many women lie to get a TPO as it gives them a huge advantage in a divorce case.. What is wrong with that statement?


Divorce attorneys have one goal.. to stir to pot, to increase the drama. After all the more dram and the longer the divorce lasts, the more money they make.

When I interviewed attorneys for my divorce from the ex-doc, one of the things I was looking for is one who had a goal of minimizing the drama. It saved me a lot of money.

Now my ex-doc had a team (yes a team) of lawyers who worked very hard to try to stir that pot. His legal fees were more than twice mine.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He never used the term BDP although if he knew it I'm sure he would have. He used crazy, irrational, dramatic, paranoid, he would call my Mother for advice on how to deal with it. Most of his friends felt for him, for having to put up with me.


Do your family and friends now realize what was really going on?

What do they say about it now?


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Abuse law are needed, they also need to be reformed to better protect the true victims of abuse. They need protection and help. 
Badmouthing to friends/family is standard fare in divorce. I mentioned it before you need a thick skin and most people don't pay that much attention one way or another after the initial gossip rush is done. 
Lawyers here thrive on r/o's because wis is no fault except they can be used for figuring alimony. So it makes for extra billing and needless drama which does nothing for divorce except posturing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Do your family and friends now realize what was really going on?
> 
> What do they say about it now?


I haven't told my family all the details but they know it was an abusive situation and feel bad about what happened. We've all made peace now. 
The friends at that time were all pretty toxic and I left all them behind when I left the ex-BF.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Thundarr said:


> Maybe more education on the psychology and warning signs of this type of abuse for law enforcement. Maybe Wolf1974 or Lordmayhem will say it's already being done but I don't think it is. I have suspicion that shelters are where battered spouses actually find help from someone who knows the psychology behind it. But people who've never been in something like this will have hard time understanding it. I don't understand it.


Keep in mind that SlowlyGoingCrazy was between the ages of 15-18 when this happened to her. She was a child show parents did not protect her either.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I started a topic about a specific subject. And it gets totally thrown off track. Yes, tro's are used to gain an advantage in divorce. Would you agree or disagree?


Disagree because divorce courts pay no attention to TRO's. unless there is solid evidence, such as police records for DV and convictions for it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Are you kidding? How does it harm someone? Lol
> 
> So your emotional spouse gets an attorney. Attorney advises her to get a tro if she feels inlook at her the wrong way. The whole point to court is winning right?
> 
> ...


There has to be more than a TRO for this to happen. There has to be evidence that abuse occurred.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.


She was 15-18 years old. 

She was living where there was no phone part or most of the time. When there was a phone her husband did not allow her access to the phone.

How many 15 year olds know how to handle this kind of situation, especially when even their own family will not help her?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> No. I said that if I did that to my sons hair my wife would be furious. So knowing that I respected her wishes to have it longer. Not a huge deal to me.


So to you, it's not a huge deal that my husband hit me, pushed me around until I feel on the floor and got hurt? You are ok with that because according to you I did not show enough respect to him.

Of course you made the assumption that I did not show enough respect not knowing what who was the one who was left to be just about 100% responsible for everything?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> So to you, it's not a huge deal that my husband hit me, pushed me around until I feel on the floor and got hurt? You are ok with that because according to you I did not show enough respect to him.
> 
> Of course you made the assumption that I did not show enough respect not knowing what who was the one who was left to be just about 100% responsible for everything?


I'm assuming you left him immediately?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Everything you mentioned would have a TON of evidence, so this entire conversation isn't even relevant. What you detailed is physical assault. You really cannot do those things to someone and not leave marks.


The only thing she mentioned that will always leave evidence is the boiling water incident. But he can say that it was an accident.

The rapes? It's her words against her husband's and his friend. She would most likely never be believed.

Knocking someone out often leaves no marks. 

And on a young person a lot of marks heal very quickly.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I'm assuming you left him immediately?


No because like a lot of people, I thought it was a one time thing. We went to counseling, etc and I thought that was it. After all I'd dated him for 5 years and he'd never shown any of this kind of behavior in the past. Why would I think he was now someone completely different?

Many of the women who come there to TAM and say that there has been abuse one or two times get the advice, especially from men, to stay and work it out. After all some men just need to learn to control their natural tendency to fly off the handle. 

I have learned from my experiences, a lot of counseling and a lot of reading that a person needs to leave the first time something like this happens. Because once a person does this.. it's clear that this is who they are and they will repeat.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> No. Her posts confused me. She was mentioning mental abuse and how police would laugh at her. Ten she said horrible things that happened like being burned, raped, and knocked out. But she didn't tell police then.


There is something else that you seem to not understand. A person who has been abused the way SGC was suffers from PTS. They first time they are attacked by their spouse, it sets in. There are other things that go on in the brain that makes a person not respond in a way that we would consider normal.

The victim can no longer process things in a 'normal' manner.

There are things like the Stockholm syndrome that explain how this works.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Yes. Never happens. All my imagination. Women never lie. Nobody lies. Men are abusers that need to be kicked out or locked up with no proof. Carry on.


Some women lie, most don't.

Some men are abusers, most are not. 

That's the point. You are trying to paint all women as liars who file TRO's falsely.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I think you are confused. They aren't standard protocol anywhere lol. It means one person is removed from children and their home based on false allegations.


Yes they are standard protocol in a lot of places. They are where Revamped lives and they are where I live.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I'm assuming you left him immediately?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She's posted about the issues that happened when she did try to leave in post 98. 

I really hope you aren't trying to suggest that if someone doesn't leave right away they are at fault.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> TROs are not for mental abuse? Not for emotional abuse? Not surprising you'd say that.
> 
> And I still haven't seen you answer THE QUESTION:
> 
> Have YOU had a TRO assigned against YOU?


He said earlier that his wife did not file a TRO.

He also said that she was bad mouthing him to people to include at work, but he does not know what she was telling them. 

All he knows is that the owner of the school where she works told him that they finally had to tell his wife that the staff was tired of her trash talk and the owner told her to stop it.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She's posted about the issues that happened when she did try to leave in post 98.
> 
> I really hope you aren't trying to suggest that if someone doesn't leave right away they are at fault.


If she's a woman, she is. 

If it's a man, he's just being understanding and giving her a second chance. Cos, you know...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

EleGirl said:


> He said earlier that his wife did not file a TRO.


But he also said he was a victim of it, right?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Yeah. Every guy is tht guy. Funny you mention that though. I bumped into my wife at target and she called to tell her lawyer I was stalking her.


How did her talking to her attorney about this change your life? Were you thrown in jail? Did it affect the outcome of your divorce?

My ex-doc told his lawyer that I was an unstable woman who could not be trusted with my son. His lawyer even brought it up in court. They even tired to say in court that our son would be better off with his father having 100% custody because his father is a doctor and I'm only a lowly engineer.

Guess what affect all of that nonsense had in court ... zero. All it did was to run up his own legal fees.

We got the same outcome that would have happened even if my ex had not said all that nonsense.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Ummmm. Did I say that? Or are you saying that? Read the post above this one. Thanks
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have clearly stated that when women are in the divorce process they all cry abuse and get TRO's. It's only once in a while that you have added that this is related to women who cheat.

You have also stated that all women call 911 to get leverage in arguments, etc... nothing to do with divorce.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

marriedman321 said:


> I'm assuming you left him immediately?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow. The ignorance is staggering.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> In wis. The moment a tro is put in effect you have been found guilty and treated as guilty for as long as its in effect. The accuser has no rules they need to follow and have free reign to do whatever they please. The police explained all sorts of ways she could try to get me to violate without any consequences to her. California may state both parties can't contact each other but its not like that in all States
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It's not true that the moment "a TRO is put into effect you have been found guilty"

This is the language from a Wisconsin TRO...
"There are *reasonable grounds to believe* that the respondent has interfered with, engaged in or based on prior conduct of the respondent, may engage in abuse as defined in §813.123, Wis. Stats., as stated in the court record."

All it's doing is to say to stay from the petitioner. How hard is that?

Wisconsin Definition of Domestic Violence (DV)
WIS. STAT. § 813.12

Domestic abuse is when one or more of the following occurs between adult family or household members or dating partners: intentional infliction of physical pain, physical injury or illness; intentional impairment of victim's physical condition; property destruction and threat to engage in any of the mentioned acts; sexual contact or intercourse w/o consent. WIS. STAT. §813.12(1)(am)

Evidentiary Standard?
Discretion of the Court Based on the Finding of “Reasonable Grounds” WIS. STAT. § 813.12(3)(a)(2)

Language referring to Evidentiary Standard
“The judge or circuit court commissioner finds reasonable grounds to believe that the respondent has engaged in, or based upon prior conduct of the petitioner and the respondent may engage in, domestic abuse of the petitioner. WIS. STAT. §813.12(3)(a)(2)

Here's the Wisconsin TRO form....

http://www.wicourts.gov/formdisplay...r=CV-429&formType=Form&formatId=2&language=en


----------



## MysticTeenager (Aug 13, 2013)

I think this whole abuse thing has gotten a little dramatic. For example, shouting in a fight makes him abusive. I think that is taking it too far. And usually, everyone is quick to believe the woman over the man. 
I am not quite sure how often women lie about this. But I do know they do. My aunt cheated on her husband and to win custody of their only daughter, she told the judge she had lost her twins after her husband beat her. But all of us family memebers knew that was a lie. I kinda fell out with her after that because while she did prove that she miscarried twins, she didnt prove it was her husband that caused that. She still got her daughter anyway despite being jobless and living with her parents while he had a good job and a place and now remarried but still cant get custody. 
But that is only one case out of millions. I dont think anyone can know for sure.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

MysticTeenager said:


> I think this whole abuse thing has gotten a little dramatic. For example, shouting in a fight makes him abusive. I think that is taking it too far. And usually, everyone is quick to believe the woman over the man.
> I am not quite sure how often women lie about this. But I do know they do. My aunt cheated on her husband and to win custody of their only daughter, she told the judge she had lost her twins after her husband beat her. *But all of us family memebers knew that was a lie.* I kinda fell out with her after that because while she did prove that she miscarried twins, she didnt prove it was her husband that caused that. She still got her daughter anyway despite being jobless and living with her parents while he had a good job and a place and now remarried but still cant get custody.
> But that is only one case out of millions. I dont think anyone can know for sure.


How did you know it was a lie?


----------



## MysticTeenager (Aug 13, 2013)

Because she is a spoilt drama queen who would come to her parents home every weekend moaning about her husband not spoiling her enough. She is the kind of person who talks about everything. And if he touched her, she would have spoken, definitely. 
Also the week before her miscarriage, she was staying at her parents house again and the day she was meant to go home, she started bleeding and called her husband to come earlier to take her to a doctor who told her she was miscarrying. And that time, she wasnt home after a fight. She was just home to be pampered as she was pregnant and a bit ill. No signs on a fight. Nothing ever mentioned, until 6 years later in a courtroom. No one believed her, and when we confronted her, she said she would do anything to hurt him and win everything. She wanted basically everything he owned.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Some women lie, most don't.
> 
> Some men are abusers, most are not.
> 
> That's the point. You are trying to paint all women as liars who file TRO's falsely.


Lol.. Where did I say that?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Wow. The ignorance is staggering.


yes, I am ignorant of their situation. All I know is she said she was paying for his school. So I am assuming she had money to leave. She did not call the police when she was beat. 

So how does any of this relate to my original theory..

When a woman is having an affair, the husband immediately turns into an "abuser", and she uses this to win a court case.. It is VERY common. It isn't one in a million.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

So people asked for my solution.

A. be careful who you marry.

B. Assuming they start beating you down the road and change, call the police. 

C. If it is some sort of "emotional" abuse, that usually goes both ways, but the "victim' is often times blind to this. 

If you are the female in this situation, and file for divorce, unless you are a drug addict, you will get the kids, child support, and alimony.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

So every judge, every lawyer and every cop who tells you that you have been found guilty until an injunction hearing can be scheduled are wrong. Please come and explain that to our legal system here. 
Its not just an order to stay away and how hard is that. I haven't seen spoken or texted my stbx in almost 2 years yet here I sit chasing nonsense yet again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MysticTeenager, when you read my response below, I'm not jumping on you. I'm only pointing out how confusing these things are to anyone other than the couple... it's hard to prove abuse because usually the couple is there when it happens.



MysticTeenager said:


> I think this whole abuse thing has gotten a little dramatic. For example, shouting in a fight makes him abusive. I think that is taking it too far.


Shouting during an argument can be abusive. Not all shouting is, but some is.

There is a man here on TAM who posted a link to an audio that he recorded of his wife shouting, yelling at him during several "arguments". She was clearly very abusive. Every man and woman on TAM who listened to the audio came to the same conclusion. Their marriage counselor did also when he played for the counselor. What you wrote is a very good example of this.



MysticTeenager said:


> And usually, everyone is quick to believe the woman over the man.


Generally people side with whichever spouse they are closest to. The man's friends/family usually side with him. The woman's usually side with her.



MysticTeenager said:


> I am not quite sure how often women lie about this. But I do know [sic. some] they do.


It would be good if you added the caveat that SOME women lie about this.



MysticTeenager said:


> My aunt cheated on her husband and to win custody of their only daughter, she told the judge she had lost her twins after her husband beat her. But all of us family memebers knew that was a lie. I kinda fell out with her after that because while she did prove that she miscarried twins, she didnt prove it was her husband that caused that.


Most abuse happens behind closed doors so no one but the abuser and the victim know. How do you know that this did not happen? It would usually take a doctor's report of physical injury to prove that a miscarriage was caused by physical trauma.

Again like I said, if your aunt did lie.. shame on her. But most people other then the couple know what went on behind closed doors.




MysticTeenager said:


> She still got her daughter anyway despite being jobless and living with her parents while he had a good job and a place and now remarried but still cant get custody.


Does she have 100% custody and him no visitation? Or do they have shared custody?

The measure for custody is not which parent has more money and a better job. Children need both parents, even the one who has been the SAHM and does not have a good income.




MysticTeenager said:


> But that is only one case *out of millions. I dont think anyone can know for sure*.


Yep, it is only one case out of millions and proves nothing about all men, all women, or all divorces. Like any story told here, it's antidotal.

The only two people who know the truth are him and her. That's what makes this kind of situation so hard to deal with. It's why the courts err on the side of caution.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MysticTeenager said:


> Because she is a spoilt drama queen who would come to her parents home every weekend moaning about her husband not spoiling her enough. She is the kind of person who talks about everything. And if he touched her, she would have spoken, definitely.
> Also the week before her miscarriage, she was staying at her parents house again and the day she was meant to go home, she started bleeding and called her husband to come earlier to take her to a doctor who told her she was miscarrying. And that time, she wasnt home after a fight. She was just home to be pampered as she was pregnant and a bit ill. No signs on a fight. Nothing ever mentioned, until 6 years later in a courtroom. No one believed her, and when we confronted her, she said she would do anything to hurt him and win everything. She wanted basically everything he owned.


OK, that's pretty good evidence. If she did this, she's a terrible person.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Temporary Restraining Orders â€“ Giving Women Exactly What they Wantâ€¦ and Women Complaining it isnâ€™t Enough - The Spearhead

*A TRO is a serious matter.* A VERY serious matter. When men with guns tell you that you may not live your life as you wish, that you must leave your own house, that you may not see your own children, and that you must surrender your firearms, it should only be done as an absolute last resort. And it should require a LOT more evidence than a crying woman making an uncontested allegation.

Here it is: women routinely get TROs as a strategic move in a break-up, or just to “teach him a lesson” when she doesn’t get her way. And why not? Courts will “err on the side of caution” even when it means taking extreme action with no evidence against a man… against a defendant who is often not even aware that he is on trial, much less permitted to mount a defense. And let us not mince words here: when a judge (not even a jury) is considering whether to drastically restrict your freedoms you are a defendant in a criminal trial – using different legal terms does not change the essence of the proceeding nor your role in it.

Rather than being impartial finders of fact under law, these courts are rubber stamps for the demands of women at the expense of men. They unilaterally and suddenly take away men’s freedom, humiliate them, and disrupt their lives based on nothing more than the unsupported accusations of hysterical and/or manipulative women. And it’s not a bug: it’s a feature. Make no mistake — that is what feminists – including this “journalist” and this “expert” – want.

Far too often courts are complicit in what is really a power play within a relationship. The party that is typically physically weaker gets to use the muscle of the state to force hubby to do her bidding. Since TROs are granted without cross-examination or any weighing of the facts, we have effectively set up a system where one group of people may make demands while another group is legally obligated to obey without question. And those demands can be about anything – all she has to do if he doesn’t take out the garbage is tell a judge that, “He frightens me.” After a few weeks of living in his car he’ll figure out that “taking out the garbage” is now his legally-enforceable duty. If this is functionally different from chattel slavery, I fail to see how.

There really are a small minority of cases where a man unilaterally abuses a woman: a VERY small minority of cases. Our legal system is now spring-loaded to assume that every crying woman is the victim in such a scenario. However, women have proven that, given the option to “go nuclear,” many will abuse it. They need to lose that power. Courts need to stop passing out TROs like hall passes in grade school and force complainants to show significant evidence, subject to cross-examination, before taking the extreme step of imposing prior restraint on a man who has not been convicted of anything.

If they did that the number of TROs would drop to a tiny fraction of what they issue now, and police could concentrate on real threats. The result would probably be fewer domestic homicides. Of course feminists will not support THAT – what’s a few corpses compared to the legal ability to force men to do the bidding of women, especially since they can use those corpses to further their narrative?

Share this:


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Lol.. Where did I say that?


Through out this entire thread. I have a post a few pages back where I quoted posts where you said that.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Please explain how reasonable legal grounds factor in when the police make an arrest and have a confession but a crazy person decides its not true. Tell how reasonable it is now where she is claiming I'm controlling her mind thru the lawyers. The mental powers I posses . Its all quite reasonable.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> yes, I am ignorant of their situation. All I know is she said she was paying for his school. So I am assuming she had money to leave. She did not call the police when she was beat.
> 
> So how does any of this relate to my original theory..
> 
> When a woman is having an affair, the husband immediately turns into an "abuser", and she uses this to win a court case.. It is VERY common. It isn't one in a million.


I explained why I did not leave.. I was advised by counselors, etc. to stay and work it out because he's never been violent before. I followed what the 'experts' advised me to do.

Then when I did finally try to leave, a judge made it impossible.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> When a woman is having an affair, the husband immediately turns into an "abuser", and she uses this to win a court case...


My SIL cheated on my brother and divorced him so she could be with her old lover. She never claimed my brother was abusive.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I explained why I did not leave.. I was advised by counselors, etc. to stay and work it out because he's never been violent before. I followed what the 'experts' advised me to do.
> 
> Then when I did finally try to leave, a judge made it impossible.


How would a judge make it impossible? Never heard of this before in my life..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> So people asked for my solution.
> 
> A. be careful who you marry.
> 
> ...


No the female does not automatically get alimony. There are criteria that have to be met. These criteria are different in each state. I certainly never got alimony.

Today, in most cases, it's joint custody.. so both parents 'get the kids'.

A woman only gets child support based on the formula that takes into consideration both parties' income and the amount of time the child(ren) are with the each parent.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> So every judge, every lawyer and every cop who tells you that you have been found guilty until an injunction hearing can be scheduled are wrong. Please come and explain that to our legal system here.
> 
> Its not just an order to stay away and how hard is that. I haven't seen spoken or texted my stbx in almost 2 years yet here I sit chasing nonsense yet again.


Yea, there is nothing in the law that says you have been found guilty. 

What nonsense are you chasing now?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

turnera said:


> My SIL cheated on my brother and divorced him so she could be with her old lover. She never claimed my brother was abusive.


my wife didn't tell my sister I was abusive either..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

Many studies show that in child custody cases, between 75% to 90% of TRO's are without basis.. Filed to gain an advantage in court..


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> So people asked for my solution.
> 
> A. be careful who you marry.
> 
> ...


Wow. You are ONE BITTER MAN.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Highlights of her latest ramblings are I am controlling her mind thru the lawyers. I am controlling the judge too with my mighty powers. She claims I stole mail from her parents house when she lived there. They live in a different county and I guess she lived there 18 months ago. I have no idea where she went after the boyfriend thru her out. She was living in her car for a while that's all I knew. Supposed acts 18 months ago do not make harassment today. Oh yeah she also claimed I forced her to get drunk when we were still living together. Again not true and how could that possibly be construed as harrassment today?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

turnera said:


> Wow. You are ONE BITTER MAN.


I have a problem with the attitude of "Oh big deal, just stay away then"..

What often times happens is this..

1.Two people are divorcing and have children..

2. Wife gets an attorney, is advised to go to "women's therapy groups" for domestic violence to make sure she isn't being abused.

3. Wife decides she might be being abused, speaks to attorney.. attorney advises filing for a TRO.

4. TRO is filed for, and judge grants it.. Man is unaware this is even happening..

5. Police come to house, tell man he has to leave.. Go sleep in your car, go to a friends.. Whatever, just leave. And you cannot come back, and you cannot contact your kids. if you do you will go to jail for 3 months.

6. In two weeks a hearing is set up, that takes about 15 min.. Man will have 3 minutes to present his case.. At this point TRO can be extended for longer period of time.. Once again, he cannot call his ex, his kids, nobody.. If he does immediate jail. Of course lawyer bills will be mounting as well, as he cannot work anything out with his wife..

So, if this father even sends his child a birthday card, he can be found in violation of the TRO. Go to your kids sporting event? Another violation..

So it is a little more than "Oh big deal.. just stay away"

At the end of the day, these very orders cause the violence they are meant to prevent.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Again I am in favor of r/o's and the protection from abuse. People need help yet the ones who need it rarely get it because the current system does not work well at all. I don't have any magic answers. The ideal of the current laws have merit yet its application is extremely flawed.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I have a problem with the attitude of "Oh big deal, just stay away then"..
> 
> What often times happens is this..
> 
> ...


The Orders don't cause violence.

The abuser does.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> Please explain how reasonable legal grounds factor in when the police make an arrest and have a confession but a crazy person decides its not true. Tell how reasonable it is now where she is claiming I'm controlling her mind thru the lawyers. The mental powers I posses . Its all quite reasonable.


What confession to the police have? Her confession? His confession?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

honcho said:


> Again I am in favor of r/o's and the protection from abuse. People need help yet the ones who need it rarely get it because the current system does not work well at all. I don't have any magic answers. The ideal of the current laws have merit yet its application is extremely flawed.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Restraining orders are fine.. I just think some proof is needed..

As an example, if hit or beat call the cops, have him put in jail, then file for a RO. 

It is an abuse of the system when these suddenly occur during a chid custody case, with zero proof, and the man loses everything he ever had and loved..


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I just did a search to try to find the truth in all this. Aside from legal firms discussing it, the only 'statistics' I can find are from organizations aimed to protect men against women. In other words, biased. 

Find me some REAL statistics.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> yes, I am ignorant of their situation. All I know is she said she was paying for his school. So I am assuming she had money to leave. She did not call the police when she was beat.


The point is that if a man says that he is falsely accused of being abusive and DV, you automatically assume that he's not an abuser and that his wife is making false claims.

In every case on here where a woman has given examples of real physical abuse she was experienced. You come up with things like you are ignorant of the situation.

Well guess what, you are also ignorant of the situation when men tell you that their wives are making false claims.

If you responded with empathy to both men and women who tell you their situation, then you would be fair and unbiased. 

But instead you blindly believe the men and doubt the woman. You are biased against women.



marriedman321 said:


> So how does any of this relate to my original theory..


It relates to your original theory because you claim that women who fill for divorce always file false claims of abuse. You don't say that some women do. You say that all women who file for divorce do. Sometimes you and the caveat that women who cheat do.. but only sometimes.



marriedman321 said:


> When a woman is having an affair, the husband immediately turns into an "abuser", and she uses this to win a court case.. It is VERY common. It isn't one in a million.


You are making huge assumptions here. 

It's flat out not true that all women who cheat make false claims about abuse. 

Not all women who cheat and file for divorce make this claim.

A few women who cheat and file for divorce claim that there is abuse involved. Some are telling the truth. Some are not.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> Restraining orders are fine.. I just think some proof is needed..


As has been proven, SOME states just initiate them for BOTH parties, so that order is respected. All a RO does is say stay away from each other. A STRONGER RO will be set up if a woman (or man) has evidence that the other is being coercive, aggressive, or invoking fear.

A regular RO isn't going to keep you from seeing your kids; just seeing your stbx. Arrangements can be made.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Many studies show that in child custody cases, between 75% to 90% of TRO's are without basis.. Filed to gain an advantage in court..


Really? What studies? How did they determine that a case was false?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> Highlights of her latest ramblings are I am controlling her mind thru the lawyers. I am controlling the judge too with my mighty powers. She claims I stole mail from her parents house when she lived there. They live in a different county and I guess she lived there 18 months ago. I have no idea where she went after the boyfriend thru her out. She was living in her car for a while that's all I knew. Supposed acts 18 months ago do not make harassment today. Oh yeah she also claimed I forced her to get drunk when we were still living together. Again not true and how could that possibly be construed as harrassment today?


I'm sorry you are going through this. It sounds awful and I wish you could find a way get this to stop.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> What confession to the police have? Her confession? His confession?


The person who actually committed the crime. This happened to be the OM new girlfriend who was mad because my stbx wasn't moving out fast enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> Again I am in favor of r/o's and the protection from abuse. People need help yet the ones who need it rarely get it because the current system does not work well at all. I don't have any magic answers. The ideal of the current laws have merit yet its application is extremely flawed.


Here are some of the things that I think should be put in place.

When divorce is filed, an order stipulating that they both need to not abuse, harasses, etc needs to part of the divorce filing. It does not say that they cannot be near each other.. but it says that the courts will not put up with bad behavior by either party.

With a TRO, it should go both ways. If either one of the violate, the one who does gets in trouble.

There should be some kind of court ordered counseling for BOTH of them. If they are still living together, they need to be separated immediately. The one who is the primary care give of the children stays with the children. 

In counseling, time sharing with the children is worked out ASAP and made part of the separation/divorce order.

Doing these things mean that filing a false report would be less likely to happened. Liars don't want to have to follow rules, like going to court ordered counseling.

With the separation and counseling, the victim of abuse will hopefully get the help they need.

Here's an example where I saw this happen. Here in NM, if there is DV, usually both parties are ordered to counseling to include anger management. 

A woman I know was living with a guy who, during an argument one night ripped the water tank off the toilet and threw it at her close range. It hit her and fell onto her foot, breaking her foot.

She managed to get out of the house and hid outside. She called her brother who picked her up and took her to the emergency room. The docs in the emergency room called the police. 

A restraining order was issued. She had to move out the house they had bought together even though she was the injured party. I guess they figured that she was already out so she could just keep way.

Neither of them were allowed, by the TRO, to go near the other. A week or so later the police escorted her to her house and told him to leave while she packed and moved her things. I and others went with her to help. With her broken foot she was hobbled.

They both had to go to counseling. There was a trial and he was prosecuted for DV.... and got a small fine, nothing else. 

She took him to court to get her down payment and equity out of the house.

This very toxic relationship was ended with the way the courts and police handled it. I give credit when it's due.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> The person who actually committed the crime. This happened to be the OM new girlfriend who was mad because my stbx wasn't moving out fast enough.


Oh Good Lord. But the TRO against you was maintained?

How long has this mess been going on?


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> There should be some kind of court ordered counseling for BOTH of them. If they are still living together, they need to be separated immediately. The one who is the primary care give of the children stays with the children.
> 
> I


How would you decide who the primary caregiver is so easily? You would have to wait for a court to determine that and hear evidence..

once divorce is filed, it can take 2 or 3 months just to have a temporary hearing..Emergency hearings are almost impossible to get.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

turnera said:


> As has been proven, SOME states just initiate them for BOTH parties, so that order is respected. All a RO does is say stay away from each other. A STRONGER RO will be set up if a woman (or man) has evidence that the other is being coercive, aggressive, or invoking fear.
> 
> A regular RO isn't going to keep you from seeing your kids; just seeing your stbx. Arrangements can be made.


Yep... there is a guy here DadOf2 I think is his name. His wife got a TRO against him. He and she timeshared with the children the entire time. This is the norm.

My ex (2nd husband) was divorced. His first wife cheated. She left the kids with him and went off with the OM. About 6 months later she showed up for Thanksgiving dinner, drunk. When he answered the door he told her to leave because she was drunk. She tired to push past him. He blocked her. She slipped on the ice on the porch and got hurt.

She called the police, etc. It went to court. The judge, when hearing what happened, dropped the charges. He had custody of his children the entire time. She had only supervised custody.

When he moved out here to marry me, he had 100% custody of his children.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> How would you decide who the primary caregiver is so easily? You would have to wait for a court to determine that and hear evidence..
> 
> once divorce is filed, it can take 2 or 3 months just to have a temporary hearing..Emergency hearings are almost impossible to get.


If the woman is the SAHM, she's the primary care giver. 

When it's not clear, then time sharing goes into place.... some jurisdictions (like here) what they do is to have the children stay in the house. The parents move in and out of the house. One week on, on week off. Seems fair to me.

Well I don't know that emergency hearings are hard to get. My ex-doc had not problem getting one in less than 24 hours.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If the woman is the SAHM, she's the primary care giver.
> 
> When it's not clear, then time sharing goes into place.... some jurisdictions (like here) what they do is to have the children stay in the house. The parents move in and out of the house. One week on, on week off. Seems fair to me.
> 
> Well I don't know that emergency hearings are hard to get. My ex-doc had not problem getting one in less than 24 hours.


Well there must have been an emergency situation left out of the story.. Usually with child kidnapping it is possible. 

Once again, emergency hearings are hard to get.. So who decides where the kids stay during the divorce process? Obviously every divorcing couple cannot get an "emergency hearing" to separate a couple immediately.. The courts are already over burdened..

What f the SAHM has a drinking or drug problem? What if she is abusive ? What if they both work? immediately separating is not a practical option..


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

You are just going overboard.

Where is YOUR son?

How was that determined?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321,

There are some things that you don't understand.

There is not one woman of the regulars here on TAM who agree with a man being treated unfairly. Every one of us speaks out against it when we hear about it.

In my real-life I've done things to help victims of abuse, whether they are male or female. I've helped men and woman fight false claims.

I've helped a couple of men regain custody when their ex pulled unfair antics. One of these guys was in the Army and so out of town. I drove to another city to do research in the court records to bolster his case. I wrote a lot of the papers he file filed in court for free. I even paid for his attorney because as a young enlisted buy he had to money. In the end he got 50/50 custody. And she got her attitude adjusted by the judge.

IN other court cases I've put in hundreds of hours of work to help the person, male or female who was being hurt. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm good that doing this so I do it on in my spare time.

Why did I do this? Because I care about people and society. Because injustice pissed me off royally. I do it because when I needed help there was no help. 

No one here is anti-male. No one here wants to hurt men. 

What you are doing it coming here, trashing all women (yes I can find plenty of your posts that do this.) You categorically seem to believe any man who says he's treated unfairly even when you have no clue of the facts. You have no empathy for women at all. To you women are the enemy.

Remember, we all have fathers, brothers, sons, nephews and good male friends who we don't want treated unfairly. 

These things you complain about will not change without the help from women who see the injustice and wrong and who want to see them corrected. 

Both men and women have the right to vote, to be elected, and to serve in the positions that change society, policy and laws.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

What I find truth telling, is hardly no other male poster is jumping on this thread....


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

I think an issue with arguing over message boards is you have no idea of whom you are talking to, or what they are like, or have been through..

I am a believer in the non aggression principle.. The initiation of force or coercion never has a good long term outcome.. So you do not initiate violence or coercion against men, women, and definitely not children under any circumstances.. This is also especially true, in my opinion, when dealing with governments, or how governments deal with their citizens.

Having said that, I was shocked to hear how I was all of a sudden n abuser once it came to divorce and custody.. I was shocked to hear my like minded friends also being labeled as abusers by their cheating wives.Similar stories are in many of these threads.. I was shocked to discover what is classified as abuse these days..

I think at the end of the day, sadly, if it keeps progressing, men and women should simply not cohabitate or marry. perhaps this is what the govt likes best.. The breakdown of the family which leads to the need for the govt to grow more and more.. better for banks and corporations as well.. 

I have no idea.. All I know is that it is scary to actually have everything ripped away from you with no proof or evidence, and a system that encourages it .


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Well there must have been an emergency situation left out of the story.. Usually with child kidnapping it is possible.


Here you go again. If a man says that he’s been falsely accused of abuse and has a false TRO, you believe him 100%. But anything a woman says.. you are suspicious of.

This was 2 years after the incident where I cut my son's hair and got beat up for that.

I did what *you* say women who are abused need to do. I did what the police told me to do. I did what my lawyer directed me to do.

By this time it was clear that the counseling, anger management, etc was not helping. His anger and violence were escalating. 

After an incident of his violence.. pushing, shoving, twisting my arm, grabbing me my the neck... all while he had me (while I was holding our son) corned so I could not get away.

I had a lawyer file for divorce and moved out with our son. The filed papers explained that there would be a hearing in something like 3 days. That I was not kidnapping our son.

My ex hired an attorney who got an immediate emergency hearing. The judge at the hearing refused any info I had on the abuse. Gave my ex 100% of our 3.5 yr old son. She had the divorce papers sealed because she said that we cannot have accusations of abuse against a doctor in the public records. (Note: I found out later that this female judge was known for siding with the husband in most cases. Some of the worse cases of her doing this, putting children in harms way, were in our news papers fairly often. She's not a judge any longer.)


marriedman321 said:


> Once again, emergency hearings are hard to get.. So who decides where the kids stay during the divorce process? Obviously every divorcing couple cannot get an "emergency hearing" to separate a couple immediately.. The courts are already over burdened..


No emergency hearing is needed. My suggestion is that it be automatic as part of the filing or part of a DV case when the cops are called out.

I already stated that the children stay where they are… in the family home. They stay with either the primary care giver or with the parents move in and out of the house on a weekly basis if there is no primary care giver. You apparently did not read what I wrote.


marriedman321 said:


> What f the SAHM has a drinking or drug problem? What if she is abusive ? What if they both work? immediately separating is not a practical option..


If the SAHM has a drinking problem or a drug problem, the father should have done something about it a long time ago. If she’s been ok by him to take care of the children day in and day out for years, then how can he now claim she’s not fit? If he does, then he’s not a fit father for allowing a dunk/addict to be SAHM and primary care giver. 

Immediate separating when there are concerns of abuse is absolutely practical and necessary. If there is abuse and the couple is not immediately separated, then the abuser typically will then punish the victim for calling the cops.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I have no idea.. All I know is that it is scary to actually have everything ripped away from you with no proof or evidence, and a system that encourages it .


Your wife did not file a TRO against you. She filed for divorce. 

Divorce rips a lot away from both parties, not just the man. It's a horrible thing to go through.

From what I've read you have come out of your divorce in pretty good shape, no alimony, shared custody, etc.

That's about a good as anyone can hope for.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> If the SAHM has a drinking problem or a drug problem, the father should have done something about it a long time ago. If she’s been ok by him to take care of the children day in and day out for years, then how can he now claim she’s not fit? If he does, then he’s not a fit father for allowing a dunk/addict to be SAHM and primary care giver.
> 
> .


is this the same for abuse? Something should have been done right away? 

So, as a female, you could not see your son at all? You said your ex had 100% custody.. What was the reasoning? or what claims did he make? I have yet to ever hear of this in my life..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Having said that, I was shocked to hear how I was all of a sudden n abuser once it came to divorce and custody.. I was shocked to hear my like minded friends also being labeled as abusers by their cheating wives.Similar stories are in many of these threads.. I was shocked to discover what is classified as abuse these days..


You have no idea which of those men are abusers and which are not, but you categorically believe what they say. Abusers will tell you the exact same thing non abusers will.

You have not once shown even a drop of concern for any woman who has suffer abuse. Instead you have written of each instance with something like .. just leave, well you did not show him respect, must have been kidnapping, etc.



marriedman321 said:


> I think at the end of the day, sadly, if it keeps progressing, men and women should simply not cohabitate or marry. perhaps this is what the govt likes best.. The breakdown of the family which leads to the need for the govt to grow more and more.. better for banks and corporations as well..


:sleeping:


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I have 100% legal and 100% physical custody of both children.

Period.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You have no idea which of those men are abusers and which are not, but you categorically believe what they say. Abusers will tell you the exact same thing non abusers will.
> 
> You have not once shown even a drop of concern for any woman who has suffer abuse. Instead you have written of each instance with something like .. just leave, well you did not show him respect, must have been kidnapping, etc.
> 
> ...


This thread isn't "tell your abuse story".. I am asking a specific question..read the title.. I also guess you have no idea which women are abused or liars either, right? Even if they are your close friends..

I can't believe my close friends, but everything on a message board must be believed..


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> So, as a female, you could not see your son at all? You said your ex had 100% custody.. What was the reasoning? or what claims did he make?


The judge's reasoning was that she gave him 100% custody because the judge said I made the unilateral choice to move out. She ignored the abuse. 

His claim what that he was a wonderful, loving husband who never did what I said he did. He has not idea why I left.

Yes he got 100% custody. I'd would have had to go through the courts to get visitation.

So I did something very risky but it worked. I dropped the divorce. Then moved back into our home and told my then husband that I was not going anywhere. I've said this before. It took my 3.5 more years before I put together a case that would let me leave with our son. And when I did leave I got his permission to move out with our son. At that point he was settled in a medical practice and did not need me to support him any longer.

That's why I stayed in a marriage with an abusive man for far longer than is wise. Because I had no choice. I refused to leave a 3.5yr old boy in the custody of his abusive father.



marriedman321 said:


> I have yet to ever hear of this in my life..


That's because you have not heard of a lot of cases and things that go on. These sort of outcomes happen.. usually when the man has status in the community and a lot of money.

The picture you paint of how men are always the victims in divorce is just not true. Most divorce laws have been rewritten to be gender neutral. Most jurisdictions are working to get as close to 50/50 custody as possible.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> This thread isn't "tell your abuse story".. I am asking a specific question..read the title.. I also guess you have no idea which women are abused or liars either, right? Even if they are your close friends..
> 
> I can't believe my close friends, but everything on a message board must be believed..


When a close friend (male or female), tells me that they are being abused I don't categorically believe them unless I have seen the abuse with my own eyes. 

Instead, if a person is saying that they are being abused, it's pretty obvious that there is a problem in the relationship. It might be that there is abuse. It might be that the person talking to me is a liar, drama king/queen, etc.

So what I do is to tell them that if they are in danger they need to leave the situation as it's important to err on the side of caution.

If they won't leave I try to get them and their spouse into counseling so that they can get the people who have experience this relationship issues to help them.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> I can't believe my close friends, but everything on a message board must be believed..


You fail to understand how a forum works. A person starts a thread. But the OP has zero control over what others reply. If a poster believes that something in their own story or some other situation they know of adds to the discussion, they will post it and explain why they feel it applies.

None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors in the houses of very person we know. That's a fact.

You talked about believing what men you meet through work tell you. Those are not close fiends. Those are business and work associates.

You believe everything that men on message boards and blogs say on this topic. But you believe nothing that the women say? 

Just as you don't believe what we say. Keep in mind that there is no reason for us to believe what you say either.

If you want to rant with no challenge then either post in forums for MRA that are filled with men who hate women. Or ... start your own blog on the topic and rant away. Just be sure you turn off the comments section of the blog so that no one can challenge you.


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> The judge's reasoning was that she gave him 100% custody because the judge said I made the unilateral choice to move out. She ignored the abuse.
> 
> His claim what that he was a wonderful, loving husband who never did what I said he did. He has not idea why I left.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by 100% custody? you weren't even allowed to see your child?

Often times women move out with the children, as they are completely allowed to, and set up a new residence with them before the hearing..This establishes status quo and they keep the kids as the primary parent. you would however have to allow your ex access during this time..


----------



## marriedman321 (Mar 7, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> You fail to understand how a forum works. A person starts a thread. But the OP has zero control over what others reply. If a poster believes that something in their own story or some other situation they know of adds to the discussion, they will post it and explain why they feel it applies.
> 
> None of us knows what goes on behind closed doors in the houses of very person we know. That's a fact.
> 
> ...


Gender makes no difference.. I believe what makes sense to me.. I believe stories that add up. I think I know my close friends better than people posting on a message board.. Nobody has to believe me at all.. I am interested more in theories and ideas than a personal abuse story.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

"There are many different kinds of abuse. You don't need to yell or hit her to be abusive. All of your examples can be signs of abuse in some cases. It doesn't mean they are always abuse in every case. 
Usually it is a combination of many different things and events that led the spouse to feel the other is abusive, not just 1 thing."

I respectfully disagree. Most of the things above are NOT ABUSE. Abuse is a physical assault, plain and simple. The other things are people not getting along, which may make someone unhappy but should not be equated with abuse. If your wife nags you above cleaning the garage that's not abuse. If she dominates you so that you spend every Friday night at boring dinners at her mother's house, that's not abuse either. If she runs the household and determines how money is spent, that may not make a happy marriage but its not abuse. 

Regardless of what your wife's lawyer says, courts will call abuse physical contact, but note it needs to happen only once for a husband to be in real trouble. No matter what happens, you cannot hit her. If she tells she is having an affair and described what her new man does to make her satisfied you cannot hit her.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

marriedman321 said:


> Gender makes no difference.. I believe what makes sense to me.. I believe stories that add up.


And oddly enough, to you the only stories that add up are those told by men.

Real life is often stranger than fiction. I could care less if you believe what I say here. I'm not just talking to you. There are hundreds of people who read these posts. Most are not even members. The audience is large. If what I post helps one person, I'm ok.



marriedman321 said:


> I think I know my close friends better than people posting on a message board.. Nobody has to believe me at all.. I am interested more in theories and ideas than a personal abuse story.


I posted my ideas and backed them up with real-life examples.

Most women who say they are abused are not lying; but some are.

Not all men how say that they are falsely accused of abuse are falsely accused; some of them are abusers.

The system needs to be tweaked to fix it. I gave my idea of things that can be done to fix it.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> "There are many different kinds of abuse. You don't need to yell or hit her to be abusive. All of your examples can be signs of abuse in some cases. It doesn't mean they are always abuse in every case.
> Usually it is a combination of many different things and events that led the spouse to feel the other is abusive, not just 1 thing."
> 
> I respectfully disagree. Most of the things above are NOT ABUSE. Abuse is a physical assault, plain and simple. The other things are people not getting along, which may make someone unhappy but should not be equated with abuse. If your wife nags you above cleaning the garage that's not abuse. If she dominates you so that you spend every Friday night at boring dinners at her mother's house, that's not abuse either. If she runs the household and determines how money is spent, that may not make a happy marriage but its not abuse.
> ...


She he be allowed by law to hit her?


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> What do you mean by 100% custody? you weren't even allowed to see your child?
> 
> Often times women move out with the children, as they are completely allowed to, and set up a new residence with them before the hearing..This establishes status quo and they keep the kids as the primary parent. you would however have to allow your ex access during this time..


Nope.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

Bobby5000 said:


> I respectfully disagree. Most of the things above are NOT ABUSE. Abuse is a physical assault, plain and simple. The other things are people not getting along, which may make someone unhappy but should not be equated with abuse. If your wife nags you above cleaning the garage that's not abuse. If she dominates you so that you spend every Friday night at boring dinners at her mother's house, that's not abuse either. If she runs the household and determines how money is spent, that may not make a happy marriage but its not abuse.


No one has suggested that those kinds of things are abusive but abuse is not limited to physical. There is such a thing as financial abuse, mental and emotional abuse, sexual abuse.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Really? I can think of 3 or 4 cases right here on TAM where the man got the kids and the women got nothing. In some cases, the women even ended up paying the MAN child support - whoever earns the most money. This fairy tale land you live in where all judges give all women everything just does not exist any more. Thirty years ago, sure. Women were still coming out of the dark ages of being unable to support themselves, and needed the support. Nowadays, you're just as likely to see no CS directed, as both parents work and earn decent salaries.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

marriedman321 said:


> What do you mean by 100% custody? you weren't even allowed to see your child?
> 
> Often times women move out with the children, as they are completely allowed to, and set up a new residence with them before the hearing..This establishes status quo and they keep the kids as the primary parent. you would however have to allow your ex access during this time..


And....STILL you doubt what she says and try to pick it apart because she's a woman and you simply refuse to believe that a man will treat a woman badly, it HAS to be the woman who is evil. *smh*


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Bobby5000 said:


> I respectfully disagree. Most of the things above are NOT ABUSE. Abuse is a physical assault, plain and simple. The other things are people not getting along, which may make someone unhappy but should not be equated with abuse.


Please educate yourself on a subject before you go making ignorant remarks that negate the REAL abuse hundreds of thousands of women (and men) have endured. It's insulting to read.


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> But there is enough of it that it is an issue that needs working on. Many of the people I was in the shelter with had given up on authorities due to poor treatment. I was one as well.
> 
> I also met an amazing police officer during that time so I know it's not all of them. But all it takes is one bad experience for a victim to give up (since it already took a lot to get them to try in the first place) and that could literally get them killed. That is a serious issue IMO.


They have done all they need. It is mandatory arrest. If as a police officer you have probable cause for domestic violence you are mandated to arrest. If you don't you, as the officer, can be charged criminally for that. Has been that way for years now. If anything many organizations are trying to change this, right or wrong, as they believe that this leads to over arrest out of fear or prosecution.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Oh Good Lord. But the TRO against you was maintained?
> 
> How long has this mess been going on?


The r/o game of hers started in July 13 when she got thrown out of the OM house. The first one lasted 2 months before she dropped the charges an hour before the hearing. The second lasted 6 weeks and I was found innocent and judge "asked" her to quit pursuing baseless claims. This third one has now been going for a month and we have a couple of weeks before hearing. She will hire a lawyer at last minute and get yet another delay if her pattern continues. Her divorce lawyer is refusing to have any part of the latest one. Which has brought our divorce to a grinding halt again. 
She has cost me thousands of dollars, created delay after delay in our divorce, cost me the opportunity for a career advancement. My job requires I don't have these sorts of things I my record.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## stevend1961 (Feb 5, 2011)

In a lot of divorces women are instructed by their lawyers to say and make false statements, to garner the sympathies of the judges. Mind you that not all women do this but if you go online you can find out about many men who's exs have used TRO's , RO"s and claim falsely that they are and have been abused. I have been divorced now for almost twenty years. Almost immediately after the divorce was finalized , i left the state moved over 2,000 miles away. I have gotten married again , had two other relationships, and every so many years i get a knock at my door by the sherriffs office and am greeted with a restraing order. They look me like what in the blazes is this all about? I have not had any contact with my ex for over 14 years and that was just a brief 2 seconds to ask to speak with the kids. And that was it. 
On every restraining order she claims that I am still abusing her, and that she fears for her safety and my childrens safety. †he kids are of age, but they still get attached to the order. 
it was i who left her because she was abusive, verbaly and emotionally. Yes guys that does happen to men , we just dont talk about it much. 6 years after the divorce found out that she had been having affairs with not only men but with the same sex as well. while we were still married. 
So yes they can be used as a tool to make you look very bad to the court. But mind you this if you have been abusive , get counseling immediately, and stop doing that period to anyone. If you think she is attempting to manipulate your children against you look online for P.A.S. or parental alienation syndrome. Thats a good reference and also will give you some insight and helpful resources.


----------



## stevend1961 (Feb 5, 2011)

Funny you should mention this situation, my first wife we dated and were engaged for over a period of 2 1/2 years. We never fought, never had any bad words between us. But two months into the marriage the mask and the gloves came off, and for 13 years i lived in a living hell, I tried to leave her on numerous occasions, but she always found a way to talk me back into coming home. pleading and begging and insisting she would change , she would get counseling, but it never changed, she never got counseling , and in the end i had to leave her. 
She wuld attack me verbally, emotionally, physically. Yes so i agree with your remarks Ele girl 100 %


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

honcho said:


> The r/o game of hers started in July 13 when she got thrown out of the OM house. The first one lasted 2 months before she dropped the charges an hour before the hearing. The second lasted 6 weeks and I was found innocent and judge "asked" her to quit pursuing baseless claims. This third one has now been going for a month and we have a couple of weeks before hearing. She will hire a lawyer at last minute and get yet another delay if her pattern continues. Her divorce lawyer is refusing to have any part of the latest one. Which has brought our divorce to a grinding halt again.
> She has cost me thousands of dollars, created delay after delay in our divorce, cost me the opportunity for a career advancement. My job requires I don't have these sorts of things I my record.


It's an abuse of the system. How does she have money to waste on attorneys like this? 

Will there be any alimony or child support? If so, has anyone reminded her that her actions could cause you to lose your job and then she will get nothing?

I am sorry that she is doing this to you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

stevend1961 said:


> Funny you should mention this situation, my first wife we dated and were engaged for over a period of 2 1/2 years. We never fought, never had any bad words between us. But two months into the marriage the mask and the gloves came off, and for 13 years i lived in a living hell, I tried to leave her on numerous occasions, but she always found a way to talk me back into coming home. pleading and begging and insisting she would change , she would get counseling, but it never changed, she never got counseling , and in the end i had to leave her.
> She wuld attack me verbally, emotionally, physically. Yes so i agree with your remarks Ele girl 100 %


I'm sorry you went through this and the harassment since then as well.

Yes there are women who are abusive, who lie, and who play the system. There are men who do these types of things too. What it boils down to is that there are crazy and back people out there. They tend to find and marry people who are trusting and loving.

I'm glad that you finally got out of there.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> It's an abuse of the system. How does she have money to waste on attorneys like this?
> 
> Will there be any alimony or child support? If so, has anyone reminded her that her actions could cause you to lose your job and then she will get nothing?
> 
> I am sorry that she is doing this to you.


We have no children and there will be no alimony. She recently took back possession of the house and the equity I gave up would take care of even the largest alimony claim she could have. I have no idea how she if funding her lawyer, last number I heard from him was she had over 30k in fees in the divorce alone. Her lawyer promised her the moon and stars when the divorce first began which will never happen. She lied to him about our assets, shocking her lying I know, and he knows the deal will never be a good one now. She wont listen to him. 

She doesn’t have a good paying job and wont be able to afford the house. Her attorney is refusing to take this latest r/o case. I expect him to finally bail shortly and all he says each meeting is “I want out”.
I have avoided her like the plague for most of these last two years. She is the professional victim and does have mental issues and they are documented. I even asked for your advice via pm when she wanted to do the home inspection several months ago as I didn’t want to be there for that even. 

We have a simple divorce and my situation IS NOT the norm and pretty much a worst case scenario. The world humors the crazy and she cant let go of the self made drama world she lives in. Once you end up in the r/o situations I encourage everyone to read and understand everything about the order and follow it to the letter of the law.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Honcho, that's just horrible what she is doing. My ex SIL was just as psycho crazy! Oh the stories I could tell but dredging them up just renews the anger.

It's a shame your wise advice fell on deaf ears.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

turnera said:


> Please educate yourself on a subject before you go making ignorant remarks that negate the REAL abuse hundreds of thousands of women (and men) have endured. It's insulting to read.


It does kind of make you wonder if he was emotionally abusing her and hadn't a clue. To him it looked like "not getting along" which reads an awful lot like she was not accepting my way or the highway. Or rather, chose the highway.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Revamped said:


> What I find truth telling, is hardly no other male poster is jumping on this thread....


The last thing I need is to get embroiled in another controversial thread. No matter what position I take on this one, I'm coming out butt-hurt.

Plus I don't have any expertise in the area on which to draw. Sounds like plenty of you do.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

honcho said:


> We have a simple divorce and my situation IS NOT the norm and pretty much a worst case scenario. The world humors the crazy and she cant let go of the self made drama world she lives in. Once you end up in the r/o situations I encourage everyone to read and understand everything about the order and follow it to the letter of the law.


Something about your ex reminds me some people I've known. Smart in many ways but not in touch with reality and a little narcissistic and entitled. They dream and scheme and overcomplicated everything. Always on the brink of making it big but usually are losing money on failed ventures and blaming some guy (or gal) for holding them down. When it's divorce time, they turn it into a battle and morals and decency fly out of the window. Playing the game along with paranoia are the driving motivators. Heh just my rambling thoughts.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> The last thing I need is to get embroiled in another controversial thread. No matter what position I take on this one, I'm coming out butt-hurt.
> 
> Plus I don't have any expertise in the area on which to draw. Sounds like plenty of you do.


We'll need a note from your wife or mother if you want your absence excused.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Anon Pink said:


> We'll need a note from your wife or mother if you want your absence excused.


Since my mother sounds exactly like some of the women being described here, I could probably arrange something.

Divorce, alimony, child support and custody seem to be the male equivalent of the sexual harassment issue for women. The courts are finally starting to come around to the notion that one gender is not always at fault nor responsible for shouldering the entire burden.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

stevend1961 said:


> In a lot of divorces women are instructed by their lawyers to say and make false statements, to garner the sympathies of the judges.


That **** gets you DISBARRED. My Mom (lawyer) laughed out loud when I told her this.


----------



## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

NobodySpecial said:


> That **** gets you DISBARRED. My Mom (lawyer) laughed out loud when I told her this.


NobodySpecial, ask you mom about this topic if you don't mind. I'd be interested to know how often she things the system is misused. We know there are always 3 sides and the divorce attorney will always here only one side of it.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> NobodySpecial, ask you mom about this topic if you don't mind. I'd be interested to know how often she things the system is misused. We know there are always 3 sides and the divorce attorney will always here only one side of it.


Only hearing one side, sure. Being told to lie by the lawyer. No. I did ask her. She said she does not know anyone who would risk getting disbarred over a divorce case.


----------



## FormerSelf (Apr 21, 2013)

I haven't read through the thread, so I'm not responding to anyone's posts by saying this...but I think what really hurts abuse victims are the actions they take when they are in denial or still not sure if abuse has taken place.

I think abusers often target people who they perceive are easily manipulated and don't have a solid self-identity, so an abuser can really build them up and then knock them down. A knocked down target won't always say "Hey! That was abusive!" but rather "OMG, what did I do to upset them?"

It is in these moments, where the victims believe they are at fault, when they take documentable actions that destroy their case forensically. The victims take it upon themselves to bridge the perceived wrong...often putting the "risked relationship" over the abuse...thus in a court setting, this action is all-too-frequently used to dismiss the case, making the victim re-victimized becaue now it's their reputation that is in question.

I had a pastor who specifically told me that documentation will save your butt...because he was "falsely" accused of something in the past, but because she sent him a nice card post-dated the event of the accusation, he was off the hook. 

Years later, he get removed from our church...for misappropriation of funds...and a dear friend of ours who was a staffer, brought up that he had acted inappropriately with her....brought it up to church council. But she did the same thing!!!! Sent him a card, because she didn't know what to make of the situation, tried to do the "christian" thing and make peace. Well he saved the card like he told me he does...and he was off the hook, making her look like the "crazy one". 

I think this goes to show that if anyone believes they have been abused or harassed...it needs to be confronted immediately and in the open. Swiftly. Once a victim starts to question themselves, overthink things, they, in their emotional incapacity (because abuse is incapacitating) they make some decisions that destroy their leverage and credibility.


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Thundarr said:


> Something about your ex reminds me some people I've known. Smart in many ways but not in touch with reality and a little narcissistic and entitled. They dream and scheme and overcomplicated everything. Always on the brink of making it big but usually are losing money on failed ventures and blaming some guy (or gal) for holding them down. When it's divorce time, they turn it into a battle and morals and decency fly out of the window. Playing the game along with paranoia are the driving motivators. Heh just my rambling thoughts.


Ive run into the type in the business world and know what you mean. My stbx would overcomplicate everything but often to find the reason not to try. She would fail before she ever tried and divorce or not almost everything was viewed as a battle to her.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Cletus said:


> Divorce, alimony, child support and custody seem to be the male equivalent of the sexual harassment issue for women. The courts are finally starting to come around to the notion that one gender is not always at fault nor responsible for shouldering the entire burden.


We see the outcomes of a LOT of divorces here at TAM. I suggest that of all the ones who come back and report, probably 70% of them result in the men getting at least close to 50% time, and 50/50 payment of expenses. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw a man get only every other weekend and one weeknight, like it used to be. I'd say at least a couple years.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

FormerSelf said:


> I haven't read through the thread, so I'm not responding to anyone's posts by saying this...but I think what really hurts abuse victims are the actions they take when they are in denial or still not sure if abuse has taken place.
> 
> I think abusers often target people who they perceive are easily manipulated and don't have a solid self-identity, so an abuser can really build them up and then knock them down. A knocked down target won't always say "Hey! That was abusive!" but rather "OMG, what did I do to upset them?"
> 
> ...


Yeah, why don't women who are being abused just get smart and DO something about it?


----------



## MysticTeenager (Aug 13, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> MysticTeenager, when you read my response below, I'm not jumping on you. I'm only pointing out how confusing these things are to anyone other than the couple... it's hard to prove abuse because usually the couple is there when it happens.
> 
> 
> Shouting during an argument can be abusive. Not all shouting is, but some is.
> ...


I was talking about people who dont know the man or the woman in the relationship. Usually, people will quickly believe the woman. People will believe her and sympathise. But abuse is hard to prove unless recorded. And not everyone is that clever unfortunately. 

My aunt had no medical certificate proving her husband had physically abused her. Yet she did get custody and the father only has rights on every other weekend. 

And I do believe in emotional abuse, but not all shouting, IMO, equals emotional abuse. I believe my aunt emotionally abuse her husband. She would scream at him over nothing infront of her whole family completely humiliating her ex who was a super gentle guy, I think. I remember once he brought her to see her parents and before he dropped her off, they agreed that he would come and pick her up that evening. When he turned up, she threw a nasty tantrum saying she didnt want to leave and how dare he not immediately say yes to what she wanted when he drove over 30 mnutes to come collect her. This whole drama was infront of her parents, brothers, sisters in law, and nieces and nephews. All the shouting was done by her. I remember feeling awfully sorry for him. And thankfully, her brothers stepped in and told her to stop being spoilt and ridiculous and if she wanted to sleep over, she could have just phoned him and saved him the whole trip and back. Anywaaaay, I talk too much. And if you cant tell, I really dislike this aunt of mine, lol. 

And like you said, it is very hard to prove abuse. Some physical evidence can be self inflicted, other actual evidence, they dont think of going to a doctor straight after... Yet, so many dont lie and dont have any evidence. It is a super tough situation, I think. 
The kids usually can be evidence if the couple have any. Even then, kids can be trained on what to say.


----------



## woman (Aug 19, 2011)

FormerSelf said:


> I haven't read through the thread, so I'm not responding to anyone's posts by saying this...but I think what really hurts abuse victims are the actions they take when they are in denial or still not sure if abuse has taken place.
> 
> *I think abusers often target people who they perceive are easily manipulated and don't have a solid self-identity, so an abuser can really build them up and then knock them down. A knocked down target won't always say "Hey! That was abusive!" but rather "OMG, what did I do to upset them?"*
> 
> ...


I disagree with the bolded part, I think abusers tend to gravitate towards people with a bit of narcissism. Not an unhealthy amount, and who may also be a bit vulnerable. There's no conquest in breaking someone down who already has no identity... I could be wrong, of course, just my two cents.


----------



## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

How common? Probably about as frequent as the overall population of psychopathy in the general population. 15%?


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> That **** gets you DISBARRED. My Mom (lawyer) laughed out loud when I told her this.


You're right it can get you disbarred but I'm surprised she would laugh..... it does happen


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> How common? Probably about as frequent as the overall population of psychopathy in the general population. 15%?


1 in 7 are psychopaths? Dear god, I hope not.


----------



## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

Cletus said:


> 1 in 7 are psychopaths? Dear god, I hope not.


Psychopathy doesn't always mean killer or abuser. My ex psycho b!ch SIL is a perfect example of the harmless psychopath. They take self centeredness to an extreme leaving people to scratch their heads wondering how they missed it.

My brother missed it, like so many other men, because IT was attached to a very pretty face. He never saw the self centered b!tch that we saw immediately, because she was really pretty.

I wonder how ugly psychopaths get along and manipulate people.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Anon Pink said:


> Psychopathy doesn't always mean killer or abuser. My ex psycho b!ch SIL is a perfect example of the harmless psychopath. They take self centeredness to an extreme leaving people to scratch their heads wondering how they missed it.
> 
> My brother missed it, like so many other men, because IT was attached to a very pretty face. He never saw the self centered b!tch that we saw immediately, because she was really pretty.
> 
> I wonder how ugly psychopaths get along and manipulate people.


The number one lesson I have tried to teach my boys after all the time I have spent on this website is *Look beyond the packaging.*


----------



## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

NobodySpecial said:


> Only hearing one side, sure. Being told to lie by the lawyer. No. I did ask her. She said she does not know anyone who would risk getting disbarred over a divorce case.


Have her come to Colorado I will introduce her to several defense attorneys and civil attorneys who make a game of it


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

I haven't read the entire thread, so if this has been discussed before my apologies. But I ran across a study:
Myths That Place Children At Risk During Custody Litigation

Dallam. S. J., & Silberg, J. L. (Jan/Feb 2006). Myths that place children at risk during custody disputes. Sexual Assault Report, 9(3), 33-47. (PDF).

"A two-year study in 12 states participating in the study, only 6% of custody cases involved allegations of sexual abuse. The belief that these allegations are typically false was also challenged by the study findings. Half of the allegations were believed by the investigators to be true, and in another 17% determination of the validity could not be made with any degree of certainty. The remaining third of the cases were not believed to involve abuse. However, in most of the cases where abuse was not substantiated, the allegations were believed to have been made in good faith and based on genuine suspicions." 

Just sharing info.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

so 1/3 to 1/2 of sexual abuse allegations in the study were false? That is incredibly high, so high as to *almost* warrant that as inadmissable in the custody hearings.


----------



## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

No, the study addresses how claims of abuse were raised and resolved in custody dispute. The courts and police determined the falsity of the claims of abuse, not the study.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> I"A two-year study in 12 states participating in the study, only 6% of custody cases involved allegations of sexual abuse. The belief that these allegations are typically false was also challenged by the study findings. Half of the allegations were believed by the investigators to be true, and in another 17% determination of the validity could not be made with any degree of certainty. The remaining third of the cases were not believed to involve abuse. However, in most of the cases where abuse was not substantiated, the allegations were believed to have been made in good faith and based on genuine suspicions."
> 
> Just sharing info.


6% of custody cases have allegations
Half of the allegations were believed by the investigators to be true
in another 17% determination of the validity could not be made with any degree of certainty

What am I missing? 1/2 were true allegations, 17% could not decide if true or not, the rest were not true. So 33% not true and 17% can't tell....


----------



## that.girl (Aug 27, 2014)

naiveonedave said:


> What am I missing? 1/2 were true allegations, 17% could not decide if true or not, the rest were not true. So 33% not true and 17% can't tell....


I think what you're missing is that of that 33% not true, most accusations were made in good faith, with genuine suspicion. Not made up to punish an ex.

In this context, there is a difference between "false" and "erroneous".


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

marriedman321 said:


> I am a victim of this, and it seems to be fairly common in almost every single divorce I have seen initiated by women..
> 
> Now when i was young, I thought abuse meant coming home and yelling and screaming for no reason, throwing your wife around, hitting her etc.
> 
> ...


This is not a sex thing in my opinion. I have a Scandinavia ex- who will tell people that it was her fault the relationship failed. In other cultures, the woman taking blame on herself would be a strong taboo. 

Also, people change. He may have had a change of circumstances and reacted extremely badly. There are also women who are selfish and think that kindnes can only be weakness and would not be interested in a man like that. Then there are some women who deep down feel they deserve it.

Many women have a harder time than most men in accepting themselves with their faults. They feel they have to block them out, and to make sense of things with that, it leads to making things up. Do not condemn people for it, you probably consider yourself honest, but I would place money that you tell a lie today.


----------



## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Part of this is true and part incorrect. Let me try to sort it out. 

1. Lawyers, wives and claims of abuse. "Now when i was young, I thought abuse meant coming home and yelling and screaming for no reason, throwing your wife around, hitting her etc. 

You are still right. Physical abuse, an assault, even once will be sufficient for a husband to be ejected from a home, restraining order, and police call. Being mean or uncaring will probably not accomplish that. 

2. As a tool 

"But now it seems to have morphed into a powerful tool to diminish and weaken men in all ways possible." Certainly that use is tried. Every divorce client wants the tough lawyer to put his or her spouse in line. Claims of mental abuse, while quite appealing to the client, probably mean relatively little in the system, except as it might pertain to custody. One could say a verbally abusive husband might be a worse parent. 

3. Justifying the legal fees

"I can see why women will claim abuse falsely.. If they are breaking up a family, leaving, and cheating, then it will automatically take the blame off of her. No woman wants to accept that responsibility."

It works on both sides, as long as you are paying the legal fees and shipping thousands of dollars to your lawyer, he/she will probably say you are a great person and the divorce the other person's fault. 
At age 1, babies play with others in something called parallel play where each does their thing and essentially ignores the other. Divorces are like that. Each litigant considers her all arguments very important while the other side considers his points the ones to be considered. 

4. Do remember in divorces there are two battles, a) between each party with their lawyers supporting them, and b) aligning the husband and wife with the desire to preserve their assets and the lawyers seeking to take them. In a divorce, each lawyer is a salesman for the other, showing a need for their services.


----------



## vms (Dec 17, 2014)

The issue with emotional abuse, as I've lived it, is that you can't prove it. You can call the cops if your spouse hits you, but you can't call the cops and say, "My spouse is saying really mean things to me, can you help?"

There were people that sided with my ex when I left him. They just couldn't believe that he could do the things I said he did. Emotional abusers are usually experts at manipulation. They have gaslighting and other forms of emotional abuse down to a science. They know exactly how to make you look, and even make you feel, like you are totally alone and totally in the wrong.

I was making tacos the same way he liked them TWO YEARS after I divorced him because I was STILL conditioned to do it. I had to stop myself and go, why am I doing this? I don't even like tacos this way. WTF? He isn't here to say anything. He's gone.

Abusers get in your head, and they may be gone physically, but all their conditioning of you is still there. It takes years to undo it. 

I was so afraid of him that when we divorced, I gave him everything he asked for. It's pretty damn hard now, years later, when he's started his emotional abuse of our daughter and starting a family with a woman who is also abusive (emotionally and physically) to BOTH our kids (but so far she hasn't hit my kid that I know of, and she better hope she never does) to prove that he was abusive in our marriage because I said nothing at the time. 

I gave him waht he wanted and now our daughter is paying the price. That's what abusers do though. I think emotional abuse can be incredibly damaging. It's silent. It's designed to make you feel isolated, especially since emotional abusers isolate you from your friends and family. You can't see them, and you're too scared to talk to them becuase you're sure they won't believe you.

When I left him, I heard that f****** stupid question from people: "Well, it's not like he HIT you, right?" Because if it's not a bruise or broken bone, it doesn't count. 

Until THAT attitude stops, people who are in emotionally abusive relationships will not get the kind of help and support they need.


----------

