# If your wife routinely denies you sex, then would it be okay ...



## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

If your wife routinely denies you sex, then would it be okay to get it from anyone else?


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## sh987 (Oct 10, 2013)

For me, the best answer is the simplest: no.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah, after the divorce. 

More info in your situation would help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Ask her, might be OK. Typically the answer is no


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

jerry123 said:


> Yeah, after the divorce.


:iagree:


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Ask her permission. And if she says "sure but don't let me hear about it" then go for it. But unless she actually SAYS those words, then no it isn't ok. Don't just convince yourself that she knows and has her head buried in the sand because she doesn't want to know. That just makes you a jackazz.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sure. Now that you've got the answer you want, allow me to add some conditions!

First of all, you can't have sex with just anyone. They'd have to want sex with you, too, otherwise it would be rape. Adding rape to infidelity is definitely contraindicated.

Then there is the matter of ethical behavior regarding your wife. You either need to obtain her permission (if you want to stay in the marriage), or you need to at least separate and begin divorce proceedings. Doing it any other way would make you a cheater, and that's generally considered a really awful thing to be. That's especially true on this site, where you will be cast into the depths of hell, at least figuratively.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ask her permission. And if she says "sure but don't let me hear about it" then go for it. But unless she actually SAYS those words, then no it isn't ok. Don't just convince yourself that she knows and has her head buried in the sand because she doesn't want to know. That just makes you a jackazz.


She once told me to "find someone else... just make sure you don't get AIDS or have a baby"....

My problem:

* If it does happen (and the lack of sex really makes me think of doing it sometimes), then she could well say she was "just joking".

* I tend to be a soft and emotional guy. Also know that sex generates good feelings for a partner who's giving you something good. What if I fall in love with Ms Substitute?


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Anonymous07 said:


> :iagree:


So do I pay (alimony and child-support) for something which is not my making?

Is it too much to expect plain-vanilla dead-body sex say twice a week, in a marriage?


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## LuvIsTuff (Feb 20, 2015)

Faithful Wife said:


> Ask her permission. And if she says "sure but don't let me hear about it" then go for it. But unless she actually SAYS those words, then no it isn't ok. Don't just convince yourself that she knows and has her head buried in the sand because she doesn't want to know. That just makes you a jackazz.


That may be a great way to get her to be the one to ask for a divorce. "Hey babe, since you don't want to have sex, whatcha think about letting me find a FWB?". Game over!


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> She once told me to "find someone else... just make sure you don't get AIDS or have a baby"....
> 
> My problem:
> 
> ...


If she did say those words to you then either she's in an affair or she does not have love or respect for you. 


And being a soft emotional guy makes it worse. 

Have you ever read MMSLP?

Do you plead and beg for sex?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> Is it too much to expect plain-vanilla dead-body sex say twice a week, in a marriage?


I'm guessing your wife would answer Yes.

You could invest in a high end Japanese sex robot, and install it in the marital bed. That would really burn your wife's buns! You'd be delivering a message, and have somewhat better than dead-body sex as often as you like. 

However, get a good lock for the bedroom door, so you wife doesn't sabotage the robot. She might not like getting kicked out of her own bedroom, after all. Or maybe she'll just be relieved at no longer being asked for sex, and can play Candy Crush instead.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> So do I pay (alimony and child-support) for something which is not my making?
> 
> Is it too much to expect plain-vanilla dead-body sex say twice a week, in a marriage?


If your needs are not being met and you can't seem to make things work within your marriage, then you should get divorced before looking to satisfy those needs with someone else. 

Is it too much to expect sex with your spouse? No, but if it's just not happening, I would never suggest cheating on your wife. My husband has regularly denied me sex, but I won't cheat on him. We're doing all we can to try to make things work, since he doesn't want to divorce and I said I was done several months back. If things continue to stay really bad, I would divorce before cheating. Child support has to do with your child(ren), not something to do with your wife. They don't deserve to go through the wringer because you and your wife don't see eye to eye.

Edited to add that sex problems are usually a *symptom* of another issue in the marriage. Fix the other issue(s), and then the sex follows.


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## jerry123 (Apr 9, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> So do I pay (alimony and child-support) for something which is not my making?
> 
> Is it too much to expect plain-vanilla dead-body sex say twice a week, in a marriage?


I would not settle for dead body vanilla sex in a marriage. EVER!!

And yes, it is you're making. She's not attracted to you. Wives are not expected to have sex with her husband if they are not attracted. If you wife was morbidly obese would you have sex with her. Not saying YOU are, but that's the annolgy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I personally wouldn't do it but I don't really blame people who do anymore.

If you aren't interested in having sex with your spouse you're not really in a position to demand fidelity.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

LuvIsTuff said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > Ask her permission. And if she says "sure but don't let me hear about it" then go for it. But unless she actually SAYS those words, then no it isn't ok. Don't just convince yourself that she knows and has her head buried in the sand because she doesn't want to know. That just makes you a jackazz.
> ...


Right, but cheating on her will also lead to a divorce so...


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Justamale, I'm going to assume you've had an honest conversation with your wife while clothes were on about why she doesn't want to have sex with you.

What was her answer?


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

If your wife routinely denies you sex, then replace her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

It depends on how long you've been denied. There is a big difference between infrequent sex and basically no sex. A nonconsensual no-sex arrangement is not a marriage. If that's what you have, you're already divorced. You just don't have a piece of paper. If your wife is capable of providing sex but has denied you for years, then your sexual business is no longer any of her concern. She would have abandoned her post and she would no longer would have any expectation of sexual loyalty. If you even occasionally came home or occasionally shared a dime of your salary, she should be astonished and think herself the luckiest woman on earth. Some folks here would ask such an evil bat for her permission to be a human being? Why? If someone agrees to be a wife but then quits being one for a very expended period, she's no longer a wife. She could be a hostage taker, maybe a parasite, but she'd not be a wife, not be a partner, certainly wouldn't be your sexual partner. She gets what she gets and if she doesn't like it and she wants a divorce, she knows how to file.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening anonymous07
Sometimes, and maybe frequently, one person just doesn't want sex. Nothing else is wrong, they just are not interested. 

This seems the case in the majority of HD/LD situations people talk about here. 

Its easy to suggest leaving, but sometimes there is nothing else wrong with the relationship.




Anonymous07 said:


> snip
> Edited to add that sex problems are usually a *symptom* of another issue in the marriage. Fix the other issue(s), and then the sex follows.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> If your wife routinely denies you sex, then would it be okay to get it from anyone else?


Of course not, do you really need to ask that question, to which i am sure you know the answer to.

Get a divorce, and then you can see who you want, not that i think its right in a marriage to withhold sex, because i really do not, but then i think you need to decide if either of you still need to be in the marriage.

A sexless marriage would never be for me, so i then would know what i needed to do.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> If your wife routinely denies you sex, then would it be okay to get it from anyone else?


Yes, in such a situation, as I once told my wife, I had sex with someone who loved me, myself (i.e. masturbation).

Seriously, you took some vows. It would be far better to seek counseling or divorce than to do something that by its very nature will sabotage your marriage. 

I understand she told you to find someone else, but I doubt she really meant that. If you talk to her and ask her if she meant it, be very carefuly (as others have pointed out) as it could be a costly mistake.

Good luck.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

As a rule of thumb:

If you have to try to justify it, you're already wrong.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Hitler routinely starved Jewish slaves. Would it have been morally ok for them to sneak around and find food elsewhere?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

At the very least, the next time she turns you down you can _inform _her that you will be seeking sex elsewhere. Then she at least has the option to decide what to do about it, if anything.

She has unilaterally denied you sex, but you are informed of that decision. Inform her of yours - that keeps things fair. You could decide to divorce her over this, and she could decide to divorce you over your decision. That's honest, and fair.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Married but Happy said:


> At the very least, the next time she turns you down you can _inform _her that you will be seeking sex elsewhere. Then she at least has the option to decide what to do about it, if anything.
> 
> She has unilaterally denied you sex, but you are informed of that decision. Inform her of yours - that keeps things fair. You could decide to divorce her over this, and she could decide to divorce you over your decision. That's honest, and fair.


I wouldn't tell her jack. She quit her position as wife. 

If I hired a contractor to build a house and I gave him money in exchange for his promise of performance and he quit even trying to fulfill his terms of the contract, he would be a fraud and a thief. I would have no moral obligation to seek his permission or to inform him of my decision to find help elsewhere. It wouldn't be dishonest or unfair of me to do so. It would be the logical and rational result of my former contractor's decision to be a fraud and a thief.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

nuclearnightmare said:


> If your wife routinely denies you sex, then replace her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That would be a swell solution if it didn't involve committing financial suicide or losing access to one's kids. Only when it comes to marriage do we reward people for non-performance. If the fraudulent spouse would do the honorable thing and leave the marriage they abandoned with nothing, then divorce would be the logical preferred response. A spouse shouldn't have to punish themselves further to get rid of a non-performing, fraudulent "partner".


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I don't disagree with you unbelievable, but I try to set higher standards for myself than some other people set for themselves.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Before there can be an adultery or a fraud there must be a victim. A person who has no spouse cannot commit adultery. The unilaterally sexless partner can't be the victim of an adultery because nobody would be taking anything they wanted. If you abandon property and someone else takes it, you aren't the victim of a theft. If one expects sexual faithfulness from their partner, they have to be a sexual partner (if they are capable of being one).
If I am not willing to take care of my wife's sexual needs, then it's none of my business how she takes care of those needs. 

If you are a wife or husband, you have certain obligations just as you have obligations to another human being if you are a parent. If you refuse to feed your children, the state will take them from you and will your criminal fanny in jail. They won't ask if it's ok with you if they find someone else to do your parenting job. They won't give you a house and monthly support as a reward for committing child neglect. If you neglect your job, you get fired. Nobody will ask your permission. If someone neglects their spouse, however, there are no ill-consequences. If the offended spouse finally leaves, the offending spouse gets huge rewards.


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## Rockymts (Mar 26, 2015)

divorce and save the rest of your life.

with your honor intact.

jmho 2 wrongs don't make a right.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> So do I pay (alimony and child-support) for something which is not my making?


You already pay child support and alimony every day that you stay married. You just don't see it as such, but if you're supporting your wife and children, you're already paying child support and alimony. What difference does it make if you're paying it bit by bit every day, or on a monthly check?


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

unbelievable said:


> Before there can be an adultery or a fraud there must be a victim. A person who has no spouse cannot commit adultery. The unilaterally sexless partner can't be the victim of an adultery because nobody would be taking anything they wanted. If you abandon property and someone else takes it, you aren't the victim of a theft. If one expects sexual faithfulness from their partner, they have to be a sexual partner (if they are capable of being one).
> If I am not willing to take care of my wife's sexual needs, then it's none of my business how she takes care of those needs.
> 
> If you are a wife or husband, you have certain obligations just as you have obligations to another human being if you are a parent. If you refuse to feed your children, the state will take them from you and will your criminal fanny in jail. They won't ask if it's ok with you if they find someone else to do your parenting job. They won't give you a house and monthly support as a reward for committing child neglect. If you neglect your job, you get fired. Nobody will ask your permission. If someone neglects their spouse, however, there are no ill-consequences. If the offended spouse finally leaves, the offending spouse gets huge rewards.


:iagree:
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

norajane said:


> You already pay child support and alimony every day that you stay married. You just don't see it as such, but if you're supporting your wife and children, you're already paying child support and alimony. What difference does it make if you're paying it bit by bit every day, or on a monthly check?


Excellent point. Everyone gets so hung up on the support issues. Half your income (or more) is already being used to support your wife and kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

norajane said:


> You already pay child support and alimony every day that you stay married. You just don't see it as such, but if you're supporting your wife and children, you're already paying child support and alimony. What difference does it make if you're paying it bit by bit every day, or on a monthly check?


uh, because you have to financially support a woman who has no duty to you.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

jerry123 said:


> I would not settle for dead body vanilla sex in a marriage. EVER!!
> 
> And yes, it is you're making. She's not attracted to you. Wives are not expected to have sex with her husband if they are not attracted. If you wife was morbidly obese would you have sex with her. Not saying YOU are, but that's the annolgy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Of course... she may not be the most beautiful woman in the world, but I'd still like the sexual connect to keep going. As contracted/promised/vowed....


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Fozzy said:


> Justamale, I'm going to assume you've had an honest conversation with your wife while clothes were on about why she doesn't want to have sex with you.
> 
> What was her answer?


Many times. She just doesn't understand. Or doesn't care....


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

nuclearnightmare said:


> If your wife routinely denies you sex, then replace her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


* Costly
* Too much hard work
* Spent the best 20 years of my life over it!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening anonymous07
> Sometimes, and maybe frequently, one person just doesn't want sex. Nothing else is wrong, they just are not interested.
> 
> This seems the case in the majority of HD/LD situations people talk about here.
> ...


That's true. HD/LD situations are not recognised for what they are. 

Women, in particular, are often in denial (specially if they're the LD).

Because of a lack of sex, a lot of OTHER things can go wrong. Not the other way around!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Your post makes a lot of sense to me... Divorce is extremely costly for a man. Financial suicide, emotional suicide... the destruction of a family (specially as far as the kids go), because one person h as decided to go on a sexual strike!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

norajane said:


> You already pay child support and alimony every day that you stay married. You just don't see it as such, but if you're supporting your wife and children, you're already paying child support and alimony. What difference does it make if you're paying it bit by bit every day, or on a monthly check?


At least I have some say in the life of my kids... and get to partake in the food that's cooked for all. 21st century men are beggars in this situation!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> Excellent point. Everyone gets so hung up on the support issues. Half your income (or more) is already being used to support your wife and kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But we're also taking care of our own expenses... more or less. Together with the (sexual) insults, there is food, a home, the chance to interact with the kids... which would be removed otherwise!


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> * Costly!
> * Too much hard work
> * Spent the best 20 years of my life over it!


Costly: Yes

Too much hard work: Depends on how important having a normal sex life is to you, I guess

Spent 20 years: Sunk cost fallacy


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening Rockmts
It really isn't that simple. I'm wealthy enough, no kids, that divorcing my wife would not be a financial hardship. I could easily find another willing partner and spend the rest of my life having all the exciting sex I want. 

The problem is that I love my wife. I want to spend time with her. I also don't want to hurt her. Sex is very important but it is not the only important thing, or even the most important thing.






Rockymts said:


> divorce and save the rest of your life.
> 
> with your honor intact.
> 
> jmho 2 wrongs don't make a right.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

norajane said:


> You already pay child support and alimony every day that you stay married. You just don't see it as such, but if you're supporting your wife and children, you're already paying child support and alimony. What difference does it make if you're paying it bit by bit every day, or on a monthly check?


The difference might be you get to actually live with your kids and provide them with at least one decent, responsible, parent as opposed to leaving them someone who has proven they cannot be trusted to meet the basic needs of those to whom they are responsible. If a woman couldn't be bothered to even try to meet the needs of her husband, why would he assume she would treat his kids any better? Yet, in reality, a fraudulent spouse who happens to be female is statistically far more likely to end up being the primary parent in a divorce.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Rockymts said:


> divorce and save the rest of your life.
> 
> with your honor intact.
> 
> jmho 2 wrongs don't make a right.


There is no loss of honor and there aren't two wrongs in a situation where one enters a marriage in good faith and later discovers they have no marriage because they married a fraud. Subjecting your kids to the effects of divorce isn't more honorable than stepping out on a wife who has no interest in you. Leaving your kids in the care of a completely selfish zombie in order that you can be technically divorced from someone who has already divorced you in fact, is not honorable. The only person in that equation who would be dishonorable is the one who decided to quit being the spouse they signed up to be. The victim spouse wouldn't be going outside the marriage by choice, but because they are forced against their will to do so. If the victim spouse nailed someone right in the presence of their fraudulent poser of a spouse, there would be no dishonor, no "wrong", no "victim". 
The only true justice a fraudulent spouse could get would be total abandonment without any support, without primary access to any children. That's not going to happen in this world, so any course the victim spouse takes is not going to make things "right" or "honorable". The situation would suck and the reason it would suck would be 100% on the shoulders of the person who decided to force their zombiness on another human being.


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## Rockymts (Mar 26, 2015)

unbelievable said:


> There is no loss of honor and there aren't two wrongs in a situation where one enters a marriage in good faith and later discovers they have no marriage because they married a fraud. Subjecting your kids to the effects of divorce isn't more honorable than stepping out on a wife who has no interest in you. Leaving your kids in the care of a completely selfish zombie in order that you can be technically divorced from someone who has already divorced you in fact, is not honorable. The only person in that equation who would be dishonorable is the one who decided to quit being the spouse they signed up to be. The victim spouse wouldn't be going outside the marriage by choice, but because they are forced against their will to do so. If the victim spouse nailed someone right in the presence of their fraudulent poser of a spouse, there would be no dishonor, no "wrong", no "victim".
> The only true justice a fraudulent spouse could get would be total abandonment without any support, without primary access to any children. That's not going to happen in this world, so any course the victim spouse takes is not going to make things "right" or "honorable". The situation would suck and the reason it would suck would be 100% on the shoulders of the person who decided to force their zombiness on another human being.


while I can see your point and can even agree that it sucks.

I still think in the long run its better for the children and all involved to just divorce.

laws and attitudes about custody are changing so I do not think its as dismal as you suggest I also think its area and case specific. not that its fair 

As for the kids I think the long term effects of staying together for the kids might be worse than getting divorced depending or the kids.

and setting an example for your children of knowing when to give up the ghost with honor and dignity. and for them to see that their dad or mom knew when to pull the plug might be the most helpful of all for them.

you argument of it not saving honor doesn't fly with me. For one if other people see or know your cheating and word trickles down to your kids they for sure will see it as you are in the wrong. 

But hey we can agree to disagree.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

If you cheat on a refusing spouse, I still have to give the technical win on moral high grounds to the refusing spouse because it is still cheating. 

But that is all. The refusing spouse could go cry me a river because I'd have zero sympathy.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

I've been told twice by my wife that she'd prefer I would have sex outside the marriage, so she wouldn't have to have sex with me. (Yeah, I see what she did there.) Something tells me she would have a different opinion if I did have sex with someone else.



She seems to have missed the point. I've never been looking for "sex". I've been looking for my wife to make love with. But no more.



Now, I'm just looking for the door.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Rockymts said:


> while I can see your point and can even agree that it sucks.
> 
> I still think in the long run its better for the children and all involved to just divorce.
> 
> ...


The harmful effects of divorce on children are well documented. Not aware of any studies showing the harmful effects on children who have a contented father and mother living at home. How parents manage to find their contentment has no adverse impact on a child that I'm aware of. Sex isn't something we do in front of kids whether it's within or outside the marriage. For someone who has been denied sex for years to go outside of a shame of a marriage to find some, there is no cheating. Cheating implies there is a victim. In this case, there would be none. If folks don't mind watching someone being dragged through zombie hell for years, they shouldn't mind seeing someone behaving like a normal human being for a change. 
Nobody has the right to pass judgement on a parent who does what is necessary to remain sane and in their child's life. If someone believes it's honorable to stay in a sexless marriage, let them stay in one. If someone believes divorce is honorable, let them rip their own family apart. We all have to live within our own skin.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I won't lie, didn't read the entire thread. Or like, anything beyond the first post. 


Don't freaking cheat. 

I am that illegitimate kid that affairs create. 
My (no-longer) dad, and I, well, we're done. 


Just get a f-ing divorce. 
Can't afford a divorce? 

Well, here is a hint:
Affairs can lead to divorce. 
So, can't afford a divorce now? You really won't be able to afford one when you wife hires a shark because she hates you for cheating on her. 
Ever heard the old phrase "Up sh!t creek without a paddle." ?
You'll be up sh!t creek without a canoe at that point. 

So, do the next best thing:
Save up all the money you would spend on a divorce, and buy one of those sex dolls. And I don't mean the $20, I mean like a $4000 doll. 
I hear they can make them look like your favorite porn star. 
I would choose Gianna Michaels. 
Just imagine...
Gianna Michaels. In your bed. Every night.....

Can't afford a $4000 doll? 
Then buy a $100 fleshlight. 

Can't afford a $100 fleshlight?

Then what the hell are you doing contemplating an affair!?! You can't even afford to take your mistress out! 
What kind of affair are you going to have?!


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Illegitimate or not, you were created by God Almighty and He did so for reasons that make perfect sense to Him. None of us picked our parents and none of us chose to be born. That was a gift to each of us and what we do with it is entirely up to us.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening anonymous07
> Sometimes, and maybe frequently, one person just doesn't want sex. Nothing else is wrong, they just are not interested.
> 
> This seems the case in the majority of HD/LD situations people talk about here.
> ...


QFT my brother. Precisely our situation. I was just the idiot that managed to not realize that before and almost fvckup a good thing.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> But we're also taking care of our own expenses... more or less. Together with the (sexual) insults, there is food, a home, the chance to interact with the kids... which would be removed otherwise!


If you cheat on your wife, you don't think you'd end up divorced? That's where cheating very often leads. So why make it a messy and expensive divorce that will be blamed entirely on your cheating? You'd be considered the bad influence on your kids in that scenario. Why put yourself and your family through that? If you're at a point of cheating and blowing up your marriage, just end it.


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