# Am I Being Played???



## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

This is my first post on this forum. This will probably be a long post - sorry in advance. 

I recently discovered that my wife cheated on me. We've been married for nearly 16 years. Most of our relationship has been really good, with the usual ups and downs. 

I'll admit there were times in our marriage when I wondered if I loved my wife. There were times when I would flirt with other women - but have never stepped out of our marriage. 

Things took a turn when in 2008 my 18 year career took a huge tumble. I've been a commissioned sales person all my life and my income dropped about 75%. 

The only thing I knew to do was work harder and as a result began working longer hours. I began learning about online marketing and began implementing it into my business with the hopes that I could resurrect my business. I was beginning to experience mild success and was generating a lot of leads but because of the market few people were very motivated to buy. At some point I decided to begin focusing on online marketing and stayed with my business as long as I could because it was generating some income. Because I was juggling both I was still putting in lots of hours - sometimes late into the night - a couple time I did all-nighters. 

I was in sheer desperation mode to save my home and my life style. But it seemed the harder I worked the worse things got financially. 

My health began to be impacted. I developed high blood pressure and sleep apnea and on weekends I'd be so exhausted I was incapable of really engaging with my family. In 2008 when all of this began I became severley depressed and had what I think was a mild nervous breakdown. I had gotten the depression under control somewhat but as i continued to work the long hours with few results, the depression would kick back in again. There were many times I'd go to my doctors office weeping uncontrollably for no reason. I'd weep driving down the highway. I contemplated suicide many times even to the point of knowing how I would do it. 

The point of all this is - I wasn't all that much fun to live with and I was not engaged with my wife enough to bring her a long as a partner. I seized communicating with her about all that was going on - because I had no energy and NO answers for her. And her hostility toward me had increased becasue of our circumstances. She blamed me for abandoning my family but at the same time said I should go get 3 jobs if necessary so that I'm at least brining in an income. 

In March 2011 we had a nice conversation about some things I was working on that I was hopeful about. I truly thought they were going to work. She said she supported me and that I should give it 6 months. I ended up working at it 6 months and then began trying to find a new job. Again, one more thing to add to my list of things to do, while dealing with depression, not sleeping etc...

OK - so fast forward to November 2012. By this time I had stopped all of my marketing activities because I couldn't figure out how to earn consitent money. I found a full time job that is a salary plus commission job. My wife and I had separated because of everything. She asked me to leave. I was living at a friends and she and the kids remained at home.

Periodically I would stay overnight at home and when I did, I would sleep in our bed. Of course nothing was happening besides sleep. I heard my wifes cell phone buzz in the middle of the night and thought it was someone texting her so that suddenly sparked my curiosity. 

The next day I checked her cell phone records and discovered a phone number that appeared over and over and over again for about the last year - going back to October 2011 (just over 6 months from our covernsation where she said she supported me and gave me 6 months).

I called the number and of course it was another man. I asked who he was - he gave told me a name and gave me a bull**** story about why he was talking to my wife.

I confronted my wife about it as well. She insisted they were just friends. I began tabulating the amount of time they spoke on the phone and the average time they spent on the phone together was over 40 hours per month for the past 12 months. Could be longer - the phone records online only go back 12 months.

She would say "I know it looks bad but I promise you we are just friends and we've only met twice" Blah Blah Blah.

A few days later I checked her cell phone voicemail and there were multiple messages on there from him all professing his love for her. I won't share all of them but one said how much he enjoyed seeing her last night and how much he enjoyed the intensity of the kisses and pinning her against the wall with his hands in her pants and fingers deep inside her - blah blah blah.

As I'm sure you can imagine - I became quite angry and woke her out of bed by placing her phone next to her to listen to the message.

She still to this day claims that never happened. She said, instead they were simply engaged in a fantasy role play over the phone but besides the one time they did kiss, there was never anything beyond that. ...I don't believe her...

With all of this, I love my wife and I want things to work out. I moved back into the house the day I discovered the phone calls and I've been there ever since. 

And I have been the one doing everything in my power to make things work. I have been the model husband, showering her with affection, cleanign the house, making her lunches for work etc....Professing how much I love her...Basically I've been a pathetic door map...

I've been back in the home since November 8th and we still have not had sex because she says she needs time. She needs time to get over all the "hurt and resentment" from my past behaviour and for abandoning my family while I was trying to sort out my career. 

We hug and kiss and are affectionate that way - with me initiating of course but we still have not had sex. 

After reading some online about womens infidelity I'm beginning to realize some things that hadn't dawned on me. She's likely mourning the loss of the Other Man and coming down from the chemical high she was on when she cheated in the first place. She's probably not even certain that she wants to be in this marriage.

And I have been doing everything wrong. I've been a complete doormat for her basically, allowing her to feel as though her cheating was justified.

I would welcome some feedback on what I should be doing - some perspective perhaps. Because right now, we are no sex indefinitely - and...well...it's pretty hard to swallow learning your wife has cheated and she's not interested in having sex.

Thanks in advance for your time.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

To answer your question ~ Yes


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

I should add that she hasn't had contact with him since Dday - that I'm aware of. I check her phone records daily as well as her personal email. She does have a work email that I don't have access too. 

Thanks!


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Based on what you have shared and know it sounds like either a EA or a EA/PA that has gone underground I would continue to monitor the situation and consider buying a placing a VAR in her car maybe a keylogger on the home computer laptop etc in an effort to see where we are at


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Has she sent a NC letter ? Also I would consider that you start taking care of yourself by this I mean maybe start exercising or walking, jogging , riding a bike etc as these activities will help stress and you basically get immediate results the 180 plan is designed to get you to rediscover yourself its not for her or your marriage but for you follow this link if your interested http://www.network54.com/Forum/233195/thread/1302875291/last-1302891381/The+180


Good Luck Sir


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## My_2nd_Rodeo (Nov 20, 2012)

samatedge said:


> I should add that she hasn't had contact with him since Dday - that I'm aware of. I check her phone records daily as well as her personal email. She does have a work email that I don't have access too.
> 
> Thanks!


So she knows your checking that stuff, right? And you still haven't been intimate?

Could be underground. 

Some here would suggest a tracker on the car.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

I sense you wat to stay in the marriage. I would leave if I was you, but if you want to stay, no more Mr. Nice guy.

You don't have to be a jerk, but be honest about it. You are working your rear end off to pay for everything and keep the bills paid. That's not easy to do and still have time for everything else in your situation. Btw, does she work?

If she does, suggest she get a part-time job as well, and same with you. The two of you should be balancing the load, not piling it all on you.

If she doesn't work, maybe try telling her that she's free to get off her princess ass and go find a job rather than *****ing about how you should have three of them.

Make her do at least half the work in the house as well. While I don't think sex is really your primary concern at the moment (I'll get to that in a second) if you read the Sex in Marriage forums, no one gets laid by scrubbing floors and folding laundry. Besides, she's a full capable human being, make her do half of the load in the house.

Regarding sex though, at this stage I think you need to focus on the marriage first. Yes, sex is part of marriage, but it comes when a level of trust and happiness is in the marriage, and right now you clearly don't trust her and she's not happy with you for a few reasons. You need to work on mending those fences for a while first. Have you tried doing a date night, or just spending time along at night to talk, watch a movie, etc?

Also, try sitting down with her and having an open talk, not a fight but a talk, about everything. Don't get into the affair really, just the stuff that involves you and her and why you drifted apart. See if you two can agree on what you did wrong and what she did wrong, because it'll help you understand what it is you need to work on to repair the relationship.

Also, be sure to enforce a no contact rule for the other man, and establish barriers for her (and you) regarding what is inappropriate regarding the opposite sex so it's well known in the marriage what is and isn't allowed by the other spouse. I'd also suggest asking for all her passwords, etc. and you should offer her the same.


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## costa200 (Jun 27, 2012)

> She blamed me for abandoning my family but at the same time said I should go get 3 jobs if necessary so that I'm at least brining in an income.


And while this was going on what was she doing?


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. Truly! 

Virtually everything about our relationship is way better than it was when I was working so many hours. And even better than it was for some time leading up to that timeframe. 

She does have a job and she does help around the house. We are much more partners in that respect than we have been for quite awhile. There have been times when she was a stay at home mom and she works in the school district so she's home during the summer months. As a result - she has always tended to do more of the house cleaning while I would do the grocery shopping and the major cooking (entertaining) - because I love grocery shopping and cooking. She believe it or not, likes doing laundry and vaccuuming. 

We're actually both very civil to each other - and we communicate now more than ever. We spend a lot of time at night - after the kids go to bed just talking things over. Sometimes our voices raise a bit, but for the most part, we have good communication.

When were in bed together, we cuddle. I'm able to "touch" her, although in one of our conversations she reiterated that she is not able to have sex yet and expressed that she felt I was being too "touchy" right now. 

When I arrive home (she gets home from work before me) we embrace and kiss. We sit next to each other on the couch at night. We hold hands in the car and other places.

She has stated that she feels I'm all about sex right now and that we need to focus on our relationship and rebuild it. And I agree with that. I also agree that I'm "all about sex" right now. I know I'm going through that response that BS's go through upon discovering the affair. 

However, when I spend most of my time playing mind movies in my head its excrusiating that were not able to fully reconcile that way. And maybe the reality is, it should be ME who's not ready to reconcile because - it may be a false reconciliation. 

Besides posting here, I have only told one close freind about this and we've only talked about it once because he's out of town on business.

Meanwhile - ALL of our close friends have sort of gathered around her in support of her for the past couple of years because she's had to endure so much and how can she still be hanging in there. Not one of them knows about the affair. 

Regarding the NC rule - should I require her to write and send the letter to him even if I believe she has stopped contact? 

How do I go from the way I've been handling this (pathetic door mat) - to implementing the 180 thingy? 

I mean, if were making progress could the 180 rule short circuit our progress?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

She is not having sex with you out of loyalty to her OM.

They had sex. She is still lying. Don't even argue this

She has other means of communication. maybe a second phone or a different email account.

You are absolutely being played. You need to play this smarter than her. Be prepared to be devastated. 

Do you know who this guy is ?(OM). Is he married ?

Anything you try to fix without finding all the lies that are going on is a waste of time. Remember how easily she lied to you when you confronted her about the calls ?


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

My_2nd_Rodeo said:


> So she knows your checking that stuff, right? And you still haven't been intimate?
> 
> Could be underground.
> 
> Some here would suggest a tracker on the car.


She does know I'm checking these things yes. Exactly how do I track her car? 

Also - how do I track her computer strokes?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Does she have a home computer that she uses regularly ?

keyloggers.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

I agree with everything warlock just posted. Very unlikely she went from an hour plus a day and being screwed against walls to zero contact. You are her backup plan and.housekeeper.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

kingsfan said:


> Regarding sex though, at this stage I think you need to focus on the marriage first. Yes, sex is part of marriage, but it comes when a level of trust and happiness is in the marriage, and right now you clearly don't trust her and she's not happy with you for a few reasons. You need to work on mending those fences for a while first. Have you tried doing a date night, or just spending time along at night to talk, watch a movie, etc?
> 
> Also, try sitting down with her and having an open talk, not a fight but a talk, about everything. Don't get into the affair really, just the stuff that involves you and her and why you drifted apart. See if you two can agree on what you did wrong and what she did wrong, because it'll help you understand what it is you need to work on to repair the relationship.


We have been doing these things. 

[/QUOTE]Also, be sure to enforce a no contact rule for the other man, and establish barriers for her (and you) regarding what is inappropriate regarding the opposite sex so it's well known in the marriage what is and isn't allowed by the other spouse. I'd also suggest asking for all her passwords, etc. and you should offer her the same.[/QUOTE]

Is it appropriate for me to ask for her work email password? She accesses it through the school districts password protected website.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> Do you know who this guy is ?(OM). Is he married ?


I don't know the guy. I know where he works. That's it.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

Are you a security risk? What info on her work email could you not be trusted to know and keep confidential?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

samatedge said:


> She does know I'm checking these things yes. Exactly how do I track her car?
> 
> Also - how do I track her computer strokes?


The computer is a marital asset, unless it is a work computer. 

Bring it to a computer store and ask a techie to install the key logger. 

Disposable phones are easy to get and difficult to trace.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

samatedge said:


> I don't know the guy. I know where he works. That's it.


First thing today. Find everything about him.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

remorseful strayer said:


> The computer is a marital asset, unless it is a work computer.
> 
> Bring it to a computer store and ask a techie to install the key logger.
> 
> Disposable phones are easy to get and difficult to trace.


He can buy and download a keylogger online and install it on the computer. No need to make his wife suspect if he bugged it already.

OP, where are you posting this from ? Make sure your wife doesn't know


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> She has other means of communication. maybe a second phone or a different email account.


We have a home phone - and she has a work phone - but she's in a classroom all day. Of course that doesn't mean she doesn't talk to him from her work phone when she's on break, at lunch etc...so that's possible and it's possible she has another email account. 

She has told me that she was planning on breaking things off with him before I found out so that we could work on our marriage - yet all the way up until Dday there was no change in the pattern of phone calls. 

If she was truly wanting to end things and she was choosing our marriage, I would expect to have seen a decrease in the number of times she called him - but that did not happen.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Thanks for all the responses. Truly!
> 
> Virtually everything about our relationship is way better than it was when I was working so many hours. And even better than it was for some time leading up to that timeframe.
> 
> ...


All good to hear. Communication is the key. Keep it up. 



samatedge said:


> When were in bed together, we cuddle. I'm able to "touch" her, although in one of our conversations she reiterated that she is not able to have sex yet and expressed that she felt I was being too "touchy" right now.


Then don't be to touchy. But set a limit on how long, and let her know. Tell her you'll give her her space, but make it clear that you'll do that for so long. And don't be vague about it either, don't say "I'll give you some space until you get comfortable." No, say something that doesn't give her complete control and sets a definite timeline, while still showing her some respect and space. Try "I'll try not to be as touchy feely towards you for a few weeks, but we can't forget that stuff is important to a relationship."



samatedge said:


> When I arrive home (she gets home from work before me) we embrace and kiss. We sit next to each other on the couch at night. We hold hands in the car and other places.


Good, keep at what you are allowed. Don't let it slip the other way.



samatedge said:


> She has stated that she feels I'm all about sex right now and that we need to focus on our relationship and rebuild it. And I agree with that. I also agree that I'm "all about sex" right now. I know I'm going through that response that BS's go through upon discovering the affair.


Maybe explain to her that men have a natural desire to "mark their territory" so to speak after an affair. Also explain to her that sex to a man is like a hg to her. Ask her how she'd feel about coming to you for a hug and you saying "You're to touchy right now." While sex is more effort than a hug, it's the feelings behind you want to emphasis. You want to feel desired, loved and like you are the one, not this other dude, and sex helps you with that. Agree to keeping your distance sexually, but again, state that it won't be a long-term thing and remind her it's been one month back together (and I assume longer in total) since you've had sex. It can't go on forever.



samatedge said:


> Meanwhile - ALL of our close friends have sort of gathered around her in support of her for the past couple of years because she's had to endure so much and how can she still be hanging in there. Not one of them knows about the affair.


Don't blame her friends if they don't know. They only act based on what they see. If you are jealous, try spending some more time with your friends.



samatedge said:


> Regarding the NC rule - should I require her to write and send the letter to him even if I believe she has stopped contact?


Ask if she has told this OM that there is to be no contact. IF she says yes, ask when and that you want to see the e-mail/text message/whatever she sent him. If she can't show you, or hasn't done so yet, ask her to write another and that it is something you need to see to provide you with some level of closure. If she objects, ask her what she'd expect from you if the situation was reversed. It's a common part of closure for many to see their spouse actually tell the other person to get out of the marriage.



samatedge said:


> How do I go from the way I've been handling this (pathetic door mat) - to implementing the 180 thingy?
> 
> I mean, if were making progress could the 180 rule short circuit our progress?


You don't have to go a full 180. You are just asking her to tow her own weight instead of being a doormat. Don't forget, going 180 from being a doormat would turn you into an *******. You don't want that, you just want respect. So sit down, think of important issues where you aren't being treated as an equal or treated with respect and just start pulling back on what you do in those areas. If she doesn't pitch in to compensate, then so be it. You should only do what you can, not what she refuses to do. 

I doubt she'll ***** much, since you can point out pretty quick how you are doing more than her anyways.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> He can buy and download a keylogger online and install it on the computer. No need to make his wife suspect if he bugged it already.
> 
> OP, where are you posting this from ? Make sure your wife doesn't know



I get your point, but if he doesn't know about key loggers, it's very likely he won't be able to download and install it. 

You wouldn't believe how computer impaired some intelligent people are. Not every one is as computer savvy as some here.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> First thing today. Find everything about him.



How?


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> I get your point, but if he doesn't know about key loggers, it's very likely he won't be able to download and install it.
> 
> You wouldn't believe how computer impaired some intelligent people are. Not every one is as computer savvy as some here.


I'm pretty computer literate - won't have any problems downloading a key logger - any suggestions on which one I should use?


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Is it appropriate for me to ask for her work email password? She accesses it through the school districts password protected website.


Depends, is there a risk of sensitive information being divulged?

Odds are, most businesses you would be fired if it was discovered that you ave your spouse access to your business e-mail. So no, I wouldn't ask even though yes, she could be e-mailing him from there.

That's why you should get the car tracker and VAR.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Get a var for the car and maybe 1 more for the house.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

With the Var also get some velcro and depending upon the car place it up under the seat most WS feel comfortable talking on their cell phones in their vehicles this is why everyone is suggesting the var , does she have a regular email acct or a fakebook acct?? these could possibly be hacked or get a hold of her phone when she isnt looking or sleeping and have a look


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

[/QUOTE]Then don't be to touchy. But set a limit on how long, and let her know. Tell her you'll give her her space, but make it clear that you'll do that for so long. And don't be vague about it either, don't say "I'll give you some space until you get comfortable." No, say something that doesn't give her complete control and sets a definite timeline, while still showing her some respect and space. Try "I'll try not to be as touchy feely towards you for a few weeks, but we can't forget that stuff is important to a relationship."[/QUOTE]

I actually had voluntarily suggest a 90 day period of abstenance between us, to which she agreed. For me abstenance is NO release whatsoever so I'm driving handsfree if you know what I mean.

I guess, I'm finding it EXTREMELY difficult. I had no idea how difficult this was going to be. And it's a catch 22 because I know if I pressure her into having sex and she relents, it will provide no more relief for me since now I'll just be wondering if she wanted too or if she was just appeasing me.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

do you know whom the person was that answered the phone ?? did he work with her ??? at the school dist, what does she say about that ask her for his name


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

samatedge said:


> We have a home phone - and she has a work phone - but she's in a classroom all day. Of course that doesn't mean she doesn't talk to him from her work phone when she's on break, at lunch etc...so that's possible and it's possible she has another email account.
> 
> She has told me that she was planning on breaking things off with him before I found out so that we could work on our marriage - yet all the way up until Dday there was no change in the pattern of phone calls.
> 
> If she was truly wanting to end things and she was choosing our marriage, I would expect to have seen a decrease in the number of times she called him - but that did not happen.


She is still lying. Don't believe one word she says to justify her position or her cheating. She just wants to come off looking better.

Was the OM a coworker ? How did they meet ?


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Yes, your being played. No chance in hell there's no one else in the picture.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

samatedge said:


> Then don't be to touchy. But set a limit on how long, and let her know. Tell her you'll give her her space, but make it clear that you'll do that for so long. And don't be vague about it either, don't say "I'll give you some space until you get comfortable." No, say something that doesn't give her complete control and sets a definite timeline, while still showing her some respect and space. Try "I'll try not to be as touchy feely towards you for a few weeks, but we can't forget that stuff is important to a relationship."
> 
> I actually had voluntarily suggest a 90 day period of abstenance between us, to which she agreed. For me abstenance is NO release whatsoever so I'm driving handsfree if you know what I mean.
> 
> I guess, I'm finding it EXTREMELY difficult. I had no idea how difficult this was going to be. And it's a catch 22 because I know if I pressure her into having sex and she relents, it will provide no more relief for me since now I'll just be wondering if she wanted too or if she was just appeasing me.



Sex is the last thing you should be worried about currently. The affair hasn't ended yet.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

> Maybe explain to her that men have a natural desire to "mark their territory" so to speak after an affair. Also explain to her that sex to a man is like a hg to her. Ask her how she'd feel about coming to you for a hug and you saying "You're to touchy right now." While sex is more effort than a hug, it's the feelings behind you want to emphasis. You want to feel desired, loved and like you are the one, not this other dude, and sex helps you with that. Agree to keeping your distance sexually, but again, state that it won't be a long-term thing and remind her it's been one month back together (and I assume longer in total) since you've had sex. It can't go on forever.


Ok - so we have already had this conversation and to clarify - she has not made issue of me hugging or kissing her. I was trying not to be too vulgar when I used "touching" her. What I mean to say is touching her in an intimate way - but without any sort of penetration... heavy petting, if you will...

BTW, it's been a lot longer since the last time I had sex.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> Are you a security risk? What info on her work email could you not be trusted to know and keep confidential?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She works for a school - so not much. I suspect she only gets work related stuff - but honestly I don't think I would demand access to her work email...


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

I don't know if you're consciously being played by your wife. Probably unconsciously. The problem with an EA that develops into a PA or even just an EA is the chemical high of the new "romance" and the excitement that goes along with it. Unfortunately, this chemical high forces them to rationalize their actions and they do this by re-writing your marital history - giving themselves lots of reasons to cheat. It's a no-win situation for the BS. Even if and when the affair ends, it is very difficult to repair the damage to your own relationship because of the history re-writes. DS's actually believe the re-writes and even when they come down from the high - they are not happy to be back. 

It will take a lot of work and patience on your part. I can't advise you how long and how patient you should be - that is entirely up to you. In my case, I made all sorts of mistakes - wasting time with a false R rather than confronting the issue head-on. All it did was give my wife another 3 years of rationalizing why she "hates" being married. If I had found and followed the advice on this forum, it might have helped. Whatever you do, don't rug sweep it and hope things get better. They won't unless and until your wife can face up to her actions and show some remorse for them.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> do you know whom the person was that answered the phone ?? did he work with her ??? at the school dist, what does she say about that ask her for his name


I asked his name - he told me. He didn't know who I was by that point.

They do not work together. I do know where he works because his voicemail indicated the name of his company and I looked them up. I also figured out what his direct work phone number and have identified the times she called his work number vs cell. 

According to him - because I had a bit of a conversation with him - and according to her - they met because he is friends of someone she works with and they did a happy hour. 

On Monday she has a Christmas party with her employees right after work. I'm thinking of asking her not to go, not knowing whether HE will be there again. At this point I don't know if it's a happy hour type of thing where it would be reasonable to think that friends might show up or if its an official holiday party at a school facility.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samatedge said:


> I actually had voluntarily suggest a 90 day period of abstenance between us, to which she agreed. For me abstenance is NO release whatsoever so I'm driving handsfree if you know what I mean.
> 
> I guess, I'm finding it EXTREMELY difficult. I had no idea how difficult this was going to be. And it's a catch 22 because I know if I pressure her into having sex and she relents, it will provide no more relief for me since now I'll just be wondering if she wanted too or if she was just appeasing me.


90 days is a really long time. Far to long, but you set it, so stick to it. I don't know why a 90 day no sex policy means 90 days hands free, cold turkey though. I mean, you don't even know if she's stick screwing ther guy, but you vow to not even go spank your monkey?



samatedge said:


> Ok - so we have already had this conversation and to clarify - she has not made issue of me hugging or kissing her. I was trying not to be too vulgar when I used "touching" her. What I mean to say is touching her in an intimate way - but without any sort of penetration... heavy petting, if you will...
> 
> BTW, it's been a lot longer since the last time I had sex.


So you vowed 90 days of no sex, but you groping her at times? Do you want to put yourself through hell?



samatedge said:


> She works for a school - so not much. I suspect she only gets work related stuff - but honestly I don't think I would demand access to her work email...


I'm not sure what she does at the school (I assume teacher or educational assistant based on what you have posted so far), but schools get sent all sort of information. Even report cards are confidential, as are attendance records, medical conditions, and, depending on the age of the student, things like criminal records, physchologists, etc. My ex-wife was a teacher, schools can have to deal with some pretty dicey stuff.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Has she sent a NC letter ? Also I would consider that you start taking care of yourself by this I mean maybe start exercising or walking, jogging , riding a bike etc as these activities will help stress and you basically get immediate results the 180 plan is designed to get you to rediscover yourself its not for her or your marriage but for you follow this link if your interested The Healing Heart: The 180
> 
> 
> Good Luck Sir


Thanks In_The_Wind - I will start working out. I have been so literally sick since this has happened, bronchitis, severe cough, etc...along with the psychological turmoil, that I haven't been able too.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samatedge said:


> I asked his name - he told me. He didn't know who I was by that point.
> 
> They do not work together. I do know where he works because his voicemail indicated the name of his company and I looked them up. I also figured out what his direct work phone number and have identified the times she called his work number vs cell.


Nice sluething. Does she call his cell more often? Is she allowed to use her cell from her own work? Where she works, does she have tha bility to use the work phones to call him privately, or would she need to use her cell for that?



samatedge said:


> According to him - because I had a bit of a conversation with him - and according to her - they met because he is friends of someone she works with and they did a happy hour.


A happy hour? At the bar you mean?



samatedge said:


> On Monday she has a Christmas party with her employees right after work. I'm thinking of asking her not to go, not knowing whether HE will be there again. At this point I don't know if it's a happy hour type of thing where it would be reasonable to think that friends might show up or if its an official holiday party at a school facility.


Why don't you go with her? Surprise her at the last minute and go with her. That way she can't tell the other dude to show and you'll know pretty quickly if she's avoiding him or not (assuming you know what he looks like).


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

> 90 days is a really long time. Far to long, but you set it, so stick to it. I don't know why a 90 day no sex policy means 90 days hands free, cold turkey though. I mean, you don't even know if she's stick screwing ther guy, but you vow to not even go spank your monkey?


That's what I'm figuring out - 90 days is a long time. The time frame was based on the fact that our wedding anniversery is Feb 1st so I thought that might make for a special anniversery -I don't know. 




> So you vowed 90 days of no sex, but you groping her at times? Do you want to put yourself through hell?


My thought here is that in our relationship there have been times when I was "taking care of myself" and as a result less interested or motivated in engaging with her sexually. Kids, work, hectic lifestyle, spanking the monkey as you say = no intimacy. And that has been one of her arguments in the past and one of her "justifications" for the affair, I suspect.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

> Nice sluething. Does she call his cell more often? Is she allowed to use her cell from her own work? Where she works, does she have tha bility to use the work phones to call him privately, or would she need to use her cell for that?


She had always called his cell more often and in the past few months called only his cell. I believe she does have use of a phone at work. But I'm not 100% sure. I can verify by checking her business card. 




> A happy hour? At the bar you mean?



Yes - at a bar. If it is at a bar - she ain't going!



> Why don't you go with her? Surprise her at the last minute and go with her. That way she can't tell the other dude to show and you'll know pretty quickly if she's avoiding him or not (assuming you know what he looks like).


I'll ask her where it is and then surprise her. That's a good idea. It's a ways away from where we live - probably a 40 minute drive - so it will be obvious that I'm only there to check up. And I'll have to find someone to watch the kids. I'm not going to bring them along - in case.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Very sorry that you are here. I am going to be blunt. Your wife, no longer loves you, she not longer respects you. You are her back up plan. She will divorce you and expect you to pay for it and her new life style. She is being true to her lover not you. I am not saying any of this to upset you, I am trying to give you a wake up call that I never got. Read thru many of the post here and also go to www.DocCool.com to read the mind of the current person that is disrespecting you. This is going to suck,but it will suck less if you are ready for it. Good luck and God Bless. David


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Yep going last minute is a great idea [email protected] time!


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Another question about the NC Letter. Trying to figure out if I'm missing something.

If I told my wife she needed to send an NC letter - and let's say she has gone gone underground - wouldn't she just call the OM and tell him "my husbands making me send this stupid letter to you. When you get it, just ignore it"?

Does the letter serve some other purpose?

Again, thanks to all of you who have replied so far.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

samatedge said:


> She had always called his cell more often and in the past few months called only his cell. I believe she does have use of a phone at work. But I'm not 100% sure. I can verify by checking her business card.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You cannot go on doing stuff like this forever. The affair is still going on. Don't you realize it ? She is exactly following the cheater's script. Read a few more stories in this site. Your story is not unique.

Do what you have to to find out. You best chance might be a VAR in her vehicle.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

samatedge said:


> If I told my wife she needed to send an NC letter - and let's say she has gone gone underground - wouldn't she just call the OM and tell him "my husbands making me send this stupid letter to you. When you get it, just ignore it"?
> 
> Does the letter serve some other purpose?


If the NC letter is not fake the porpouse is to end officialy the affair. To be sure OM knows further contact of his part is not wellcomed, that you know all what happened had that she decided to do it on her own. Again, if this is not fake, there's an emotional milestone from the wayward part: the withdrawal starts.

Then what you fear is very common. Sometimes they even warn them in advance. That's why you need to put in place every snooping tool to verify you are not getting played.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She should be in sales- she's proven to be a very savvy saleswoman up to now. 
A voice activated recorder in her car should tell you how good she is.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

She's remaining faithful - trouble is, it's not to you. Not at all.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

2asdf2 said:


> Is she touching you in the same manner
> 
> 
> Is she doing oral to you?
> ...



Shes not touchng me in the same way, no oral. She has offered a handjob but i declined. It felt too much like she was offering to "shut me up"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

I did confirm that she neither has computer or phone access at work. Shes a sign language interpreter and only has a small desk in class. No dedicated phone or computer. 

I monitor every single call she makes on her cell phone. in fact, I call every number I dont recognize. That leaves only the home phone. Ill be getting those call records asap.

Ill also be tapping the computer and am looking into the VAR too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

How do i learn as much as possible about the OM?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

She likely has a burner phone and is staying in touch during drives , shopping, lunch.

You should start with spokeo.com and pipl.com and the good old phone book,

If you can get an address on him, find out who owns the place where he lives.

You are looking for has wife's info, and you want to expose the affair to her without warning your wife about doing it.

I'm fairly certain your wife is very much still in the affair.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

And see if you can find him on facebook. Don't overlook just googleing his name either.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Hes got a fairly common name so i cant be certain if i have the right person. I know the general area where he lives but not the exact address. 

I asked her tnight where her holiday party was. She said it was a bar. I told her she cant go because OM is friends with one or more of her coworkers. She said she wont got if its gonna start WWIII. What a wonderfully remorseful sentiment, right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Her contempt is because she still think she has the whole situation under control and is managing you well. You almost bought her lies, didn't you ?


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Got keyloggers set up on both computers. We'll see what happens there.

She does not spend much time on computer but some.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Got keyloggers set up on both computers. We'll see what happens there.
> 
> She does not spend much time on computer but some.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good now get 2 vars 1 in the car and 1 as a backup or in the house when you are not there.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I would find a sitter and just go with her you said it's a forty minute drive and you could be the dd afterall you don't want her driving drunkand you could do some intel and just observe I think it might be worth it plus her colleagues will know she has a husband


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

kingsfan said:


> Also, be sure to enforce a no contact rule for the other man, and establish barriers for her (and you) regarding what is inappropriate regarding the opposite sex so it's well known in the marriage what is and isn't allowed by the other spouse. I'd also suggest asking for all her passwords, etc. and you should offer her the same.


You can "enforce" rules regarding the OW/OM all you want. Same with what is allowed between members of the opposite sex.

They are going to agree or not agree, What then?


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Im curious if anyone knows, if WS is unwilling to play by the rules and a separation is necessary, is there a legal basis that supports the WS being the one to leave the home vs the BS, even when the BS is the husband/father?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You can't force her to leave if her name is on the deed/lease or on the mortgage.

Your best approach is to make it costly and humiliating for the OM. Get him to throw her under the bus to save himself.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Another question about the NC Letter. Trying to figure out if I'm missing something.
> 
> If I told my wife she needed to send an NC letter - and let's say she has gone gone underground - wouldn't she just call the OM and tell him "my husbands making me send this stupid letter to you. When you get it, just ignore it"?
> 
> ...


One purpose is that it shows whether or not she is willing to write it. You get other man's full name and address. It starts just with other man's name, no "dear" or other term of endearment, and says that she no longer wants to have any contact with him and if he does attempt to contact her in any way, shape, or form, she will file harassment charges against him. It ends with "signed" and her name.

If she really has ended contact with him forever, what's the harm in sending this letter? Can it hurt the situation? It's not like it's going to take some herculean effort to jot down a few lines and put a letter in the mail.

Another purpose is that it shows the other man that your wife is dancing to your tune, that she cares enough about your marriage to do this to appease you.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

samatedge said:


> I did confirm that she neither has computer or phone access at work. Shes a sign language interpreter and only has a small desk in class. No dedicated phone or computer.
> 
> I monitor every single call she makes on her cell phone. in fact, I call every number I dont recognize. That leaves only the home phone. Ill be getting those call records asap.
> 
> ...


She could have another mobile phone, with pre-paid minutes. These phones are cheap and sold everywhere. 

She could have apps on her phone that allow her to call other man without the call showing up on a call log or bill, it will show up as data usage, as if she was on the Internet.

There are so many ways to communicate via phone and computer that aren't easily detectable that if they really wanted to stay in contact this way and hide it from you it wouldn't be too hard for them to do it.

The VAR is good because they don't expect it and they don't see it coming, they only expect you to monitor their phone and email. So if she's using a burner phone or an app, her voice still shows up on the VAR even if it doesn't show up on your bill.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Im curious if anyone knows, if WS is unwilling to play by the rules and a separation is necessary, is there a legal basis that supports the WS being the one to leave the home vs the BS, even when the BS is the husband/father?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the US, this is a state-by-state thing, but I am not aware of any law about who leaves the home when there are marital problems and there are no allegations of domestic or child abuse.

You can't make her leave and she can't make you leave.

Many times, the betrayed spouse can get the cheater to leave because the cheater does feel some guilt. Also, the cheater finds it easier to keep cheating if they are away from their betrayed spouse, they don't have to worry as much about being caught having contact or seeing each other, so they welcome the "space."


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> One purpose is that it shows whether or not she is willing to write it. You get other man's full name and address. It starts just with other man's name, no "dear" or other term of endearment, and says that she no longer wants to have any contact with him and if he does attempt to contact her in any way, shape, or form, she will file harassment charges against him. It ends with "signed" and her name.
> 
> If she really has ended contact with him forever, what's the harm in sending this letter? Can it hurt the situation? It's not like it's going to take some herculean effort to jot down a few lines and put a letter in the mail.
> 
> Another purpose is that it shows the other man that your wife is dancing to your tune, that she cares enough about your marriage to do this to appease you.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Will_Kane said:


> One purpose is that it shows whether or not she is willing to write it. You get other man's full name and address. It starts just with other man's name, no "dear" or other term of endearment, and says that she no longer wants to have any contact with him and if he does attempt to contact her in any way, shape, or form, she will file harassment charges against him. It ends with "signed" and her name.
> 
> If she really has ended contact with him forever, what's the harm in sending this letter? Can it hurt the situation? It's not like it's going to take some herculean effort to jot down a few lines and put a letter in the mail.
> 
> Another purpose is that it shows the other man that your wife is dancing to your tune, that she cares enough about your marriage to do this to appease you.


Ok. That all makes perfect sense. I think the response from her when i ask her to do this will be telling and worth it alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

Should I be exposing my WS to all of our mutual friends? Not one of them know about her affair. Ive only told one close friend and it wasnt until about 3 weeks after Dday. Part of my motivation for telling them, is to keep her accountable. 

The other motivation is vindication since she has been being counseled by all of our close friends for over a year and they are all of the belief that I abandoned my family. In reality I think she has exagerated everything to justify her affair.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You can't force her to leave if her name is on the deed/lease or on the mortgage.
> 
> Your best approach is to make it costly and humiliating for the OM. Get him to throw her under the bus to save himself.


This. 
I humiliated OM to his wife family and friends. 
He threw my WW under the bus so fast it made her head spin. 
And also was a TANGIBLE, UNDENIABLE demonstration of what a pos he really was. 
What kind of man wants a married woman? My wife found out the hard way. 
Make yours do the same.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Should I be exposing my WS to all of our mutual friends? Not one of them know about her affair. Ive only told one close friend and it wasnt until about 3 weeks after Dday. Part of my motivation for telling them, is to keep her accountable.
> 
> The other motivation is vindication since she has been being counseled by all of our close friends for over a year and they are all of the belief that I abandoned my family. In reality I think she has exagerated everything to justify her affair.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi Sam hope your doing well. Keep up the good work as soon as you have the information and are 100% share she is still in the affair I would try to contact the OMW or gf as she can be a very good ally, once this is done then I would go with the exposure and file for D this would tend to let her know you are serious remember you can always slow down the D or cancel it if she refusues to stop the affair I could tell ya what I would do and thats pack her crap up in trash bags and drop them on the posOM front lawn. 

keep exercising and taking care of yourself 
Good Luck


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Someone had asked a question about why would a Om go after a married woman there are a number of reasons I feel like such as vulnearability, a married woman would tend to not have STDs versus a single gal hanging out in clubs etc , just like the lion goes after the weakest in a herd so will the player they will tell them anything to get what they which is normally just sex 9 times out 10 they will dump the married woman as soon as they get what they want especially if the consequences are starting to appear real i.e. "the husband". Yes the BS is normally the scapegoat and the marriage history tends to be rewritten. just my opinions there are more I am sure of it


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

In_The_Wind said:


> Someone had asked a question about why would a Om go after a married woman there are a number of reasons I feel like such as vulnearability, a married woman would tend to not have STDs versus a single gal hanging out in clubs etc , just like the lion goes after the weakest in a herd so will the player they will tell them anything to get what they which is normally just sex 9 times out 10 they will dump the married woman as soon as they get what they want especially if the consequences are starting to appear real i.e. "the husband". Yes the BS is normally the scapegoat and the marriage history tends to be rewritten. just my opinions there are more I am sure of it


yes this is exactly the type of man that wants a married woman,
although i would hesitate to call them a "player", as IMO a player has the skills and courage to approach the available women and get whichever one he (or she) so chooses. so the guy that wants a married woman, instead of player i think a better term would be "user". as my fWW found out so glaringly.
and a more accurate analogy, instead of the lion stalking the weakest of the herd, would be a weasel in the henhouse, looking for the sleeping hen lol.
it doesnt take an act of courage to fk another mans wife, it takes an act of bellycrawling sneakiness.
in summary, only a piece of GARBAGE would actively pursue and bed another mans wife, because it shows that there is no ability to bag an available and most likely not vulnerable woman.


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I have no love for OMs/OW/s. I could never justify them getting involved in another person's marriage but...

I'm sorry, I believe most of the above is crap. It's blameshifting.

We as LS's _need_ to assign blame and far to much is shifted to the OM/OW. 

I don't think many of us want to believe the truth, cause that hurts like hell. To look the truth dead in the eyes rather than listening to the version our DS's give and our heart want to believe, means we are confronted with the fact that our marriages are not what we think they are and our spouses are nothing like we would like to believe. 

That is a hot knife thrust even more deeply into our souls, therefore the OM/OW must be evil, they must have corrupted our W/H's... If not for them and thier sneaky, predatory seduction of our poor weakened spouses this would have never happened.

Hogwash.


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## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

samatedge said:


> Another question about the NC Letter. Trying to figure out if I'm missing something.
> 
> If I told my wife she needed to send an NC letter - and let's say she has gone gone underground - wouldn't she just call the OM and tell him "my husbands making me send this stupid letter to you. When you get it, just ignore it"?
> 
> ...


It serves to see if she'll write it. If she's true to you, she should write it and not even blink an eye. Even if she's warned the OM about the letter, she will likely put up some objection, even if it's directly saying she supports the other man (like a line like "If you trusted me, I wouldn't have to write this...").

Odds are though that she won't actually warn the other man prior to you asking for the letter to be written. It doesn't really cross most people minds that their spouse might ask them to write such a letter, unless of course they've been down this road once before.



samatedge said:


> How do i learn as much as possible about the OM?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ask her to tell you about him, and see if you can get his name, image and address. IF you can get this info, then you have a pretty good start. I thought also you said you knew where he worked? If he has a common name such as what you suggested, searching his name and place of business together should refine the search to a narrowed grouping.

Also, try calling him again and asking him some blunt questions. If your wife really has broken off contact she'll never know anyways, and it'll show you have some big balls to do that. I'd tell the OM that you are only calling once, just because you want closure, and that you won't be calling again. Do this so he doesn't call up your wife to ask she get you to stop calling. It can turn her against you somewhat and gives them an excuse to start talking again (assuming they've even stopped).



brokenbythis said:


> You can "enforce" rules regarding the OW/OM all you want. Same with what is allowed between members of the opposite sex.
> 
> They are going to agree or not agree, What then?


What then? Then you enforce them. It's up to the OP to do what he'd do if they keep on talking, but if it was me I'd tell her that if she even so much as looks at this guys Facebook account again I'll turf her ass to the nearest street corner faster than the Flash takes a ****. And so help me, if she looked, the next second that's exactly where she'd be.

Setting rules is just another way of saying "I'm forgiving you this time, but you **** up again and you're toast." 

Btw, I'd also tell her what I'll do to explain to friends why we aren't together anymore, and what I'd do is tell the truth. The whole truth, complete with phone records, e-mails, pictures, etc. Whatever evidence I have, it'd be all over the internet like flies on crap.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> I have no love for OMs/OW/s. I could never justify them getting involved in another person's marriage but...
> 
> I'm sorry, I believe most of the above is crap. It's blameshifting.
> 
> ...


Actually i wasnt blameshifting at all. 
I was merely stating my opinion of the type of man that would pursue a married woman, or have an ongoing relationship (as in my wifes case) with one. 
I didnt cover the type of person a spouse has to be in order to do such a thing because well, frankly, it would be irrelevant to the post i was responding to. 
But youre right about assigning the blame where it should be placed. On your spouse. I wasnt married to OM. that doesnt change the fact that he is a using and manipulative piece of sh!t that lied to everyone around him, including himself. Yep, so was my wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

I've got another question. My WW and I have been doing pretty well. For the most part we've been working things out but something is still bothering me. Actually a lot of things are still bothering me but one thing in particular has been bothering me lately.

MY WW and I have two friends (women) who were both recently divorced. We were friends with each respective couple, prior to their divorce. 

My wife began meeting these two women at a bar for a girls night out. It's kind of a regular thing - on Wednesday nights. They don't meet every Wednesday but they try to meet as often as they can. And if they don't meet at the bar on Wednesdays my wife will often go spend a weekend night at one of their homes. Since they are no longer married, they have all sorts of free time for girls nights..

She spent Saturday night at one of their homes - A girls night of watching movies and relaxing....

I have no doubt at all that she was at this womans home. I've known this woman since high school and we were close, platonic friends, before my wife and I met and married. We were even rommates for a couple of years after college. We lived together in a big apartment with 4 other people - relationship has always been strictly 100% platonic - sister and brother type of relationship. 

But over the years my wife and her are have become very close friends. We used to vacation together when they were married. 

But now it has bothered me before and it still bothers me that my wife (being married) hangs out regularly with recently divorced women - even if they are very close friends. 

They never met like this before the two got divorced. We only hung out as couples - 'cept for the occassional "group girls night out". There had certainly never been what seems to be now a "standing appointment" for Wednesday nights. 

The big thing that bothers me is that being parents of two young kids, free time is limited. With everything that has gone on over the past couple of years, it seems to me like the season we are in or should be - is to be focused on mending our marriage.

To me that means WE should be going on dates regularly - once per week or as close to that as possible. We should be making time for US.

But, with a hectic lifestyle, this is nearly impossible when she chooses to spend so much time with friends.

I have never EVER in our relationship been a jealous or controling husband. She has always been able to attend girls events/weekends whenever they came up etc...

But now I guess I'm jealous of her time and want to spend this time with her and plan things for us to do...and I want her to STOP accepting every girls night out invitation that comes her way. 

Let's not even talk about the extreme anxiety I get and the checking I have to do each time she goes out without me. 

She has multiple groups of girlfriends and as most of you know, girls plan girls nights all the time. So if she's not doing a girls night with the aformentioned two girls, it's her girlfriends from highschool or girlfriends in the neighborhood or girlfriends from college or girlfriends from another group. It seems my time with her is always in competition with the girls...

Am I wrong to feel this way???.... Can I insist she STOP spending so much time with the girls...FOR A TIME....while we prioritize our relationship?

I mean, in every girls night out there is one or two or more sometimes that can't make it....not my wife. She makes every damn one of them it seems...


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## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

yes Sam I would talk to your spouse about your concerns most healthy relationships consists of 10 to 15 hours a week of together time no kids, no tv, going out on dates etc. Apply the CRAP principal - communication resolves all problems


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How has the sex thing worked out? 

GNO's after an affair? Thats a new one.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Red alert. 

Instead of working on putting energy into her marriage and her husband she is now putting hours per week into hanging with a couple if women who are divorced. Likely bitter towards marriage and who have the freedom of time and lack if responsibilty to have bar nights and weekend nights without kids. 

This after an affair 

Anyone else see the train wreck coming ?

It's not about being controlling. It is entirely about expecting you spouse especially post affair to make you as her partner her priority and fir her to be putting time and effort into her relationship with you. 

If she wants to go out and relax without kids that's good. But she should be doing iit with you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

If she continues to hang out with her divorced friends, she will become a divorced friend. 

It sounds like she's not into you anymore. It sounds like she's shopping for a new guy.

I assume you are the babysitter. 

Better lay down some boundaries, friend. 

My STBXW used that "watching movie at a friend's" excuse. Only there wasn't any movie watching. 

As Shaggy just said: 

*Red Alert!*


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

No offense OP but it sounds like you might be in a bit of a fog yourself. Have you heard of the 180???


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

*Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!*


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

chapparal said:


> How has the sex thing worked out?


Well good and bad. We've been having sex but it's still way less than I would expect. She's tired and recently had a sliding accident that messed up her back so she's been really sore.


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

chapparal said:


> *Originally Posted by marduk
> I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.
> 
> A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.
> ...


I'm giong to print this out and keep it with me and try and live by this. Great advise. Thank you!!!!

The one thing I don't do is go out with friends much. I used to work out and was in great shape - haven't in a long time - need to start doing that. 

I've been thinking of trying to find something to do overnight this weekend - maybe drive up to my home town and see my mom - then go downtown and see who's around. 

I think I'll schedule a beer with one of my good buddies tonight or tomorrow night.

Thanks Chapparal


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

samatedge said:


> I'm giong to print this out and keep it with me and try and live by this. Great advise. Thank you!!!!
> 
> The one thing I don't do is go out with friends much. I used to work out and was in great shape - haven't in a long time - need to start doing that.
> 
> ...


You should have as much "me" time as she does. If she goes out every Wednesday night, then you get a Boys Night out every Thursday.

It seems you always end up being the babysitter while she goes out on a regular basis. This is a big red flag to me. It might be nothing to with OM, but it does show you she has little respect for you. You are a few of rungs down the ladder behind the kids, herself, and her friends.

You need to change that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> You should have as much "me" time as she does. If she goes out every Wednesday night, then you get a Boys Night out every Thursday.
> 
> It seems you always end up being the babysitter while she goes out on a regular basis. This is a big red flag to me. It might be nothing to with OM, but it does show you she has little respect for you. You are a few of rungs down the ladder behind the kids, herself, and her friends.
> 
> You need to change that.


This is almost right. If she goes out once, you go out twice. This is only to get her attention but at this point your marriage is doomed.

Get a new haircut style. New clothes, work out, diet if you still have any extra pounds. Etc. Let her worry about you. If she doesn't you have your answer.

Don't forget to drop hints about other women checking you out. Just don't make it obvious. Do not let her know exactly where you are/going. If she asks say, "Well I'm not going to see your boyfriend.............unless I get lucky." :rofl:


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

TDSC60 said:


> You should have as much "me" time as she does. If she goes out every Wednesday night, then you get a Boys Night out every Thursday.
> 
> It seems you always end up being the babysitter while she goes out on a regular basis. This is a big red flag to me. It might be nothing to with OM, but it does show you she has little respect for you. You are a few of rungs down the ladder behind the kids, herself, and her friends.
> 
> You need to change that.




For sure...I'm working on making plans for tonight already. Hell, I'll go sit at a bar and listen to live music by myself if I have too. So far, not many guys available tonight. But I'm going to be gone tonight and I'm going to match her night out for night out, overnight for overnight from now on.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Wow. She has an affair and you are afraid to tell her no more GNOs ?
It won't be too until she brings up the "you are controlling" argument again. Why wouldnt she? After all you're giving her space and reasons to say that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samatedge (Dec 7, 2012)

She still says she can't give me what I want - because she feels I abandoned the family.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Did she ever write and send the No Contact letter. I really get a sense that you are being played. She is acting as if you had the affair. Her actions indicate that she has very little respect for you and your marriage whatsoever. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Good luck.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

samatedge said:


> She still says she can't give me what I want - because she feels I abandoned the family.


Are you kidding me?


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

I say double up on the nights out. 
Take two for one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Sam, did the VAR result in anything or did you not install it? How about the keylogger? 

From my POV I think your wife has check out or is checking out. If she wanted to establish a meaningful bond with you as husband and wife, she would do a lot of things differently.

A person that wants to strengthen a marriage doesn't go out drinking with single women. She doesn't spend overnight pajama parties with her single friends. She has you (supposedly), she has kids, she has responsibilities that require her attention. Little things, like going to the movies with the family, going to sporting events with the family, theater. 

My sense is that her friends convinced her that 
(1) she needs you for financial support and as a father to her kids. She was perfectly content at having you send her a check and drop by for the kids when you were out of the house. Now that you're back, her thinking hasn't changed on this issue. 

(2) she can do better than you, much better, it was probably one of her friends that set her up with the OM in the first place. It's possible that your chat with the OM scared him off. Maybe, maybe not. But it doesn't alter the fact that she now knows she's attractive to other guys and has found a new sexuality that involves role-playing (at the very least - but probably more). 

Sam, I'm being honest with this evaluation and you did ask. So here is more 'bad news' as seen from my objective view point. SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU. NOT NOW. NOT EVER. I'm going to repeat that for you:

SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU. NOT NOW. NOT EVER.

Evidence:
She accused you of wanting to be too sexual with her. (gimme a f'king break). 

She is willing to have you kiss her ass but doesn't want to do anything for you. 

The few times she tried to see if her friends were right and she consented to have you service her, she was repulsed. So much that she made up her "bad back". 

Oh, she may actually have slipped. But her "bad back" is going to last into autumn. Count on it. So forget your anniversary bedroom romp. She will probably give you a little mercy f if you pout long enough. 

You are in a pickle. Do you deserve this? NO. 

Do you deserve a divorce for your past actions? Maybe. 

What you deserve is honesty. Any you aren't getting that. Not at all.


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