# When to come out of plan B?



## mrwalters

Long story short. My wife was having an affair last summer. Within a month of it she suddenly left and moved in with him. It has been 6 months of her texting, saying how much she misses me, loves me, etc. Whenever I gave her the oppurtunity to come back she would pull away harder.
Last week she moved out of his house and into her parents. She told me she is working on herself. I can kind of feel that the old her is returning.
However shw has not told me that it is over between them. She insists to my friends that they are not seeing each other and are just friends. Tells me she always loved me and cant see a future without me. however she said that the entire time she was with him. Because she said all of that to me and still did all of this I am very reluctant to open up to her.
She moved out of his house after I stopped replying to her texts for a month or so.
I wrote her a letter when she moved into her parents, said that i am willing to work on things but the affair has to be over, and that I am at my last straw with it.
her reply was through a text, "there is so much to say, we have so much to work on if we chose"
but she never told me it was over. he lives in CA, she is in AK with her parents, I am in FL where we had lived together.
I dont want to miss my oppurtunity to open up to her should she need that to come out of all of this, but at the same time I don't want to open up to her and have her vacillate between us anymore. I am willing to put up with a little but I dont want to hurt our chances by giving in again and having her leave to be with him again. For me that is worse than anything and it kills my love for her.
I made it pretty obvious that the affair has to be over. Do i wait for her to tell me it is, do I allow her text me and reply back while she decides what to do. 
I want to give us the best chance at reconciliation and I get paralyzed with fear when it comes to this part.


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## G.J.

Send her D papers 

Tell her until she's there on her knee's wanting you back you will not even contemplate it....... until then stay away and do not contact you

Your too forgiving why should she bother hurrying back when she can have play time

Don know why you want used goods back though


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## Marc878

If they are in any contact at all the affair is ongoing. I would stay dark and set a timeline if reconciliation is what you are working towards. She is feeding you breadcrumbs to keep plan B (you) as her option.

If it were me I'd file for divorce. You can always cancel it or put it on hold. There is no room for three in a marriage. If you appear weak you'll get no respect. It's very unnactrive to women.

If you haven't, set your priorities or you'll just stay in limbo or go through this again. Reconciliation may not even be an option if she doesn't want to pull her load in this. You'll never nice her back.


Read up:
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LE..._Guy.pdf/RK=0/RS=OWtUwx2FcJeT2EtCr947vQgzx4g-


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## Kivlor

mrwalters said:


> Long story short. My wife was having an affair last summer. Within a month of it she suddenly left and moved in with him. It has been 6 months of her texting, saying how much she misses me, loves me, etc. Whenever I gave her the oppurtunity to come back she would pull away harder.
> Last week she moved out of his house and into her parents. She told me she is working on herself. I can kind of feel that the old her is returning.
> However shw has not told me that it is over between them. She insists to my friends that they are not seeing each other and are just friends. Tells me she always loved me and cant see a future without me. however she said that the entire time she was with him. Because she said all of that to me and still did all of this I am very reluctant to open up to her.
> She moved out of his house after I stopped replying to her texts for a month or so.
> I wrote her a letter when she moved into her parents, said that i am willing to work on things but the affair has to be over, and that I am at my last straw with it.
> her reply was through a text, "there is so much to say, we have so much to work on if we chose"
> but she never told me it was over. he lives in CA, she is in AK with her parents, I am in FL where we had lived together.
> I dont want to miss my oppurtunity to open up to her should she need that to come out of all of this, but at the same time I don't want to open up to her and have her vacillate between us anymore. I am willing to put up with a little but I dont want to hurt our chances by giving in again and having her leave to be with him again. For me that is worse than anything and it kills my love for her.
> I made it pretty obvious that the affair has to be over. Do i wait for her to tell me it is, do I allow her text me and reply back while she decides what to do.
> I want to give us the best chance at reconciliation and I get paralyzed with fear when it comes to this part.


You can't nice her back. If she does come back, it won't be because she loves you and realized she F'd up, it will be because things with the OM didn't work out. She'll just find another OM down the road.

If you want your W back, she'll have to respect you. That starts with setting boundaries and keeping them. The first boundary should be "No other men". File for divorce. Don't negotiate. Don't tell her "If you leave him I'll drop the divorce". Just go forward, and see what she does.

Do you have kids?


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## 5Creed

I sure would be reluctant to even entertain the thought of reconciliation if I was hearing my husband/wife say that they are now "just friends" with a recent affair partner. Do you really believe that someone she left you for and moved in with to play house with and have sex with is now just a friend?!? I think not.

Don't go there with her. You are definitely her Plan B, C or somewhere else down the line. If she really wanted to get back together with you, she would be doing everything to do just that and begging to come back. Her actions are not consistent with her words. She isn't into you at all. 

I am sorry you are experiencing this but I would be making other plans with my life if I were you.


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## Lostinthought61

Tell me something Walter, are you so paralyzed with fear that this is the only woman in the world for you ? I get you love her, but have to ask you if she loved you so much why in the hell would she leaves you to live 6 months with this guy. what is it going to take to move on, to find someone who actually wants to be with you.


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## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> I made it pretty obvious that the affair has to be over. Do i wait for her to tell me it is, do I allow her text me and reply back while she decides what to do.
> I want to give us the best chance at reconciliation and I get paralyzed with fear when it comes to this part.


Why do you want her back? She threw you away like an old shoe.

Why do you think you don't some deserve better than a backstabber?

Why do you think you can't find someone else to love who's not a cheater?

Do you REALLY think you can't do better than her? (Hint: Even alone would be better)

Why do you put her on a pedestal she doesn't deserve to be on?

Why would you want her back after she let another man FVCK her for 6 months?

Who stole your dignity and self esteem? How do you get them back?

These are the questions you SHOULD be asking yourself....


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## bankshot1993

You shouldn't be waiting on her at all. You should be moving forward in rebuilding you and your life. She made her choice when she left you and moved in with him.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to walk away and close the door on reconciliation only that you shouldn't be putting your life on hold waiting for her to decide if she wants you back or not.

work on becoming the man only a fool would leave. Not because you want her to come running back, but because you want to be that person and attract a mate that has those same qualities.

I'm not quite sure why you would be satisfied being her plan B but if I where you I would be assuming that you're done and move on. Quite often detaching makes the WW realize what she's lost and makes her work on getting it back versus you pining for her while she is sleeping with someone else thinking she can have you back as a safety net when she's done at her all you can eat cake buffet.


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## jb02157

I wouldn't do it and would just cut ties with her for good. She made her decision to leave you for someone else. What do you have to guarantee that doesn't happen again? It would be better for you to concentrate on finding someone else who isn't a cheater.


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## zzzman99

1. No contact. 
2. Serve her papers. 
3. Grow a pair.


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## bandit.45

Send her D papers. 

Stop talking to her. 

Concentrate on your healing and self improvement. 

Move on.


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## jigga114

Take a deep breath mrwalters. You titled your thread well, because as things stand, you are certainly plan B or even plan C. As a human being, you are better than that, and you deserve someone who loves and honors you as you love and honor them. I am a pro R kind of guy, but when one spouse moves in with their BF or GF, I feel bridges have been burned. Your wife made her choices when she decided to have an affair, and then completely nuked your life by moving in with the OM. She made her bed, now she must lay in it. Take control of your own destiny. Do not allow her the power to make anymore choices for you. Do not be afraid of losing her, because frankly, you already have. 

However, if you are dead set on R, then it must be on your terms. It will not be easy. Heck, R in the best of circumstances (when the WS is immediately remorseful and willing to do the necessary work to help their BS heal and to fix their own mess) is an epic trial. It tests your very spirit and forces you to reevaluate all of your values and morals as you understood them. In situations like yours where a WS goes to shack up with their lover for a time, the process is infinitely more difficult. Just make sure that if R is what you seek, you are going in with your eyes wide open.

As for your WW, I would not be surprised to learn she did what she did knowing that you would stick around to be her stable option once her fun fizzled out. People only treat us the way we allow them to. That means you need to work on yourself now to make sure that you never give any other person permission to treat you so poorly in the future. IC will help you with this, as will taking better care of yourself. That is what your primary focus should be on now. Were I you, I would file for D and get your WW served. The desire and willingness to fight for what she destroyed must be on her. You must be prepared to walk away if it is not there, because life is short. Better to spend your days with someone who loves and cherishes you as you them, than someone who already made evident by their actions that they have no love or respect for you. Good luck OP.


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## Pluto2

End contact with her until she produces proof that the A has ended, like a NC letter.

If you are really doing Plan B (the 15% solution), and if memory serves, MB website says your suffering (meaningless to devotees of this system) and your entire life and psychological well-being could continue in limbo for 2 or more years. Some fun, huh?

And why do you believe this person who has disgraced herself, the marriage and you is worth this pain?


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## Evinrude58

Just tell her to come back. After the next shack-up event, maybe you'll truly be better able to cut the chord and move on. That's what you should be doing now. She's proven she DOESN'T love you. She said she did when you married, then says it AGAIN while she is f'ing another man for 6 months? That shocks me that she thinks you're that stupid-- total lack of respect.
Gee whiz, how can you trust anything she says? Is that a woman you want back?


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## straightshooter

She does not get to be "just friends" or anything else with her ex boyfriend.

if you relent on that you are wasting your time,.

And before you even attempt to R, her first stop should be a polygraph examiner.


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## ConanHub

She is a true idiot to say she loves you while boning another man.

You really believe that crap??!

Send this wench packing. D papers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

straightshooter said:


> She does not get to be "just friends" or anything else with her ex boyfriend.
> 
> if you relent on that you are wasting your time,.
> 
> And before you even attempt to R, her first stop should be a polygraph examiner.


Why the polygraph? She moved in with the dude for 6 months until he got tired of the sex and booted her. There's not much that you need a polygraph for. 

I foresee the questioning session clearly:

Polygraph mano you still love the OM? 
Her: Well...... No, because I don't know how to truly love someone--- can't you see that? I mean, I left my husband to screw the OM for 6 months until he finally tired of me.
Polygrapher: Are you still planning on banging him? 
Her: No, as I said, he's tired of me. But there are other guys that would like to shag me in the future, I'm sure.
Polygrapher: Do you love your husband?
Her: Well, yes, especially his comfortable home and paycheck. Of course, I also love his forgiving ways that allow me to bang other men with no consequences. It's the best of both worlds-- a little strange for a few months, then back to the comfortable life.
Polygrapher: Are you sorry for betraying your husband?
Her: Yes, I am. I'm especially sorry since now I have to live with my mom, and and she isn't nearly as forgiving and easy to get along with as my husband. She actually expects to be treated with respect. screw that.

Maybe the polygraph wouldn't get to the truth quite this clearly, but hey, who knows?


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## straightshooter

*Why the polygraph? She moved in with the dude for 6 months until he got tired of the sex and booted her. There's not much that you need a polygraph for. 
*

Evinrude,

I would tell her no friends with OM, demand NC, and a few months later BEFORE I let her move back, I would ask the question about NC. he will never know the truth with her in Arkansas and OM in California if he lets her just move back because she says they are not still talking, which we know they are now.

i would tell her the non negotiable expectations before she goes anywhere. right now, she is telling him she wants him back but is refusing to stop talking to OM. the polygraph is his only tool available to know for sure if she stops talking to him.


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## Evinrude58

I kinda agree with your premise, but here's the thing:

He already knows that she will tell him she loves him while banging/living with another dude. (emotionally destructive to her husband and CRAZY on her part)
He already knows that she WANTS to talk to the OM. What she wants, she makes in obvious that she will do-- no self-control whatsoever. Maybe she's great in the bedroom thanks to that quality!

Neither of these facts is conducive to a reconciliation. It's just going to cause the OP many more days/weeks/months of emotional anguish.

I truly think that the best advice is flat-out divorce. No other option here. I would even suggest that this woman has some kind of mental disorder to say she loves her husband while moving in with another guy. I say don't do crazy, and if they go crazy in this manner-- run.


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## JohnA

Hi @mrwalters, 

You left out some points that needed to be included in your "short story". First was your "abuse" of her. You never gave specific examples as to what this abuse was. Was it physical, emotional, verbal ? All we know if is your job requires you to be on site in different states for a long period of time. The last time you saw your wife she visited you on site you where "abusive", she returned home to Florida(?) then left her cats and move directly in with a guy in California. There are a lot of unanswered questions. 

I would guess she visited you, things where rough at work and you took it out on her, big time. You used her as a cheap form of validation to make you feel better about yourself. You most likely where drinking heavily and you are a mean drunk. Growing up i did have a neighbor like that. He was a great guy, except when drunk. He never hit anyone but he made comments and acted in a truly despicable manner, taking great joy in the pain he inflicted on others. 

At this point go dark on her. If she tries to contact to you simply respond "that at this time I need to become a better a person and need space to figure out how."

Are you him? If this is you and you don't own up to it, it will always be you and destroy who ever you have a relationship with. 

You will hear repeatedly here that issues are issues, adultery is adultery. Your abuse was and is an issue. She has her own issues, as well as how she acted on those issues. 

Take a second and make two posts, first about who you are. Include an answer to the question I asked you about the nature of the abuse you gave her. Second post answer who she is, and don't include the sugar coated image you wrote about. Why did she choose to act how she did.


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> I wrote her a letter when she moved into her parents, said that i am willing to work on things but the affair has to be over, and that I am at my last straw with it.
> her reply was through a text, "there is so much to say, we have so much to work on if we chose"


Your response: "Until you provide proof - ongoing proof through access to your electronics - that you remain in No Contact with him, I have nothing more to say. Have a good life."


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## arbitrator

*IMHO, it was she who created the pile of squalor that she is laying in; just let her continue to lay in it!

The issue at hand does not involve the adultery near as much as it does the betrayal!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

MrWalters, you clearly need a crash course in "womanese". In the meantime I'll translate for you. She's tangling a carrot just enough to keep her options open with you. She's not ready to come back to you. (why you'd want her back is beyond my understanding but its your business.) If she was ready to come back to you she wouldn't have move in with her parents. She's keeping her option open with the boyfriend to. Like you said, the more opportunity you give her to come back the more she resist.
She has not told you its over with him because its not over with him. Chances are the reason she's out is because he gave her the boot oe its a temporary lovers spat.
Her, ""there is so much to say, we have so much to work on if we chose" is womanese for, "if I decide I need you for a soft place to land, I want certain concession and no fallout"
The bottom line is you may be able to reel her back in like a fish, but she's not going to stay unless she's hooked enough on you to want to stay. Your desires and wants are irreverent in motivating who she wants to be with. Personally I'd ditch her had find someone I could work with rather than work on. You may figure however being her plan B or less is better than being someone else s plan A. I've never met anyone that made me accept being anything but first just to be near them.


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## manfromlamancha

G.J. said:


> Send her D papers
> 
> Tell her until she's there on her knee's wanting you back you will not even contemplate it....... until then stay away and do not contact you
> 
> Your too forgiving why should she bother hurrying back when she can have play time
> 
> Don know why you want used goods back though


What GJ said !


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## Kivlor

OP, FWIW, I disagree with the folks who think you should tell her to go NC.

I think you should not bargain, it shows weakness. Women do not find weakness attractive; no one does. Don't provide ultimatums or "if-then's" for your WW; it won't garner your wife's respect, and more importantly, it will only further erode your own self-respect. Instead, you should go no contact (or as little as possible) with your WW. Start with the 180. 

I think filing D is the right action. Not out of anger, or a sense of getting even, but out of self-love. 

If you can learn to respect yourself, and take your focus off of her you may just find out that by the time your WW is ready to make the necessary changes that someone more loving and faithful has found her into your life.


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## Be smart

Sorry you are here my friend.

You need to Divorce her as soon as possible. Dont trust her and dont even listen to her. She showed you by her actions how much she loves you and respect you.

She said those things to you while still living with this man !!!

Now you want to give her space,to *** around and then take her back !!!Come on man you are smarter then that.

About your friends - they are not your friend. They listen to her crap story and how she cant live without you,but she is living with OM. Like wtf.

Get rid of those "friends" my friend.

Then what about your mother and father in law ?I think they suported her during her Affair.

Divorce her my friend and be happy.

Stay strong


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## whitewolf

Young sir, being much older than you, I see many things happening in this relationship that I have seen before. First of all you are not Plan B....you are Plan C or maybe even D. Plan A is the OM. Plan B is holding up with her parents in AK and keeping in contact with the "friend" in CA and at the same time stringing you along as a spare contingency. You do not do this to someone you love. You do not have an affair and move in with another man leaving someone you are in love with. Would you do this to her? You have given her all the power and to make it worse, she knows she has all the power. That is why you are being treated the way you are being treated. She is playing you like a trout on a fishing line. She knows she has you hooked. She just gives you a little line, then reels you in a little but doesn't want to reel you completely in. Meanwhile she has another line in the water with a "friend" nibbling at the bait. Living with hope for someone that treats you like dirt is no life at all. First, don't talk to her any more. Don't text, don't phone, don't even send her a smoke signal. Second, file for divorce. Once she has been served then you can converse with her. Then is the time you must really be strong. Let me tell you a fact that hasn't crossed your mind. You are acting as though she is your complete happiness and no one else in the world can make you fell good about yourself or about life. I have a surprise for you. There are over 3 billion women in this world. In the US there are at least several of million in your age range. There is one out there that will make you happy. Stop hurting over the one that is making your life a misery and go find the happy one. That's just my 2 cents worth.


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## Evinrude58

Every time you think about your wife as the good, sweet woman you once knew; think about her bent over and huffing and puffing as the OM is slapping nasties with her. Then think about how she would tell you she still loves you, and how despicable it is to do that to someone.

I would rather die than be with a woman who would do that. Heck, I'd rather her just say she hates me and to leave her alone than do what your wife is doing.

Divorcing her is the only sane thing to do here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weltschmerz

Do you have kids?


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## BookOfJob

mrwalters said:


> ......
> She moved out of his house after I stopped replying to her texts for a month or so......


It sounds from your post that you do not understand the mechanism behind it. You stopped texting her pushed her to get even closer to her OM, thus putting her fog into reality. When she found out that life with the OM was not as great as the fog, she wanted to come crawling back to you.

So, is this a good thing or not (you may ask)?

In short, it is not a good thing. She decided to fvck around with your life to find out how happy she could be. And when she found out that it was actually great with you, then she wanted to come crawling back. Keep in mind that she *thought* that she was unhappy with you.

So, with the above, what makes you think that she will be happy with you again knowing that she thinks that she is unhappy with you? Does the world suddenly change colors and bam you are the person that makes her happy without anything having to change?

This is why you need to address the fundamental problems in the past between the two of you. One token that signals her willingness to address this is she has to beg you on her knees that you take her back.


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## jnj express

she cheated, she basically wrecked your mge, moved across the country---and you want to be the one to put this back together-------not the right move!!!!!!!!--------if she wants this to work out---she comes back with remorse, almost to the point of grovelling, she is to be completely contrite, she does ALL the hard work to put the mge back together, she goes NC---she gets off social media----------if she were to propose to do the above, and then do the above----you might then consider R-----at this point, and if there are no kids----put D on the table------------you CANNOT, be a nice guy, in this situation---or she will know she can cheat any time she wants to---cuz she knows you will basically do nothing, and then take her back--------


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## mrwalters

I do see that pretty much everyone says the same thing. She has to be the one making all the moves and become transparent. I have not groveled towards her and that has helped tremendously. I do intend on reconciliation rather than divorce if that is possible. 
Where I am stuck at is when to allow her to contact me and how to reply to the contact.
I have went dark, no facebook, social media, etc. I have had a successful attactive woman pursue me since this has happened, however I am not in the place where I need to date this girl so i cut ties with her. Don't need her to have a story about how she got caught in the middle of something like this if I can spare her that. That was super hard to do considering the circumstances. I do not want to further complicate things.
I realize that many of you have gone through this before, it is my guess that the experience has left a lot of you bitter, as it is doing to me as well.
I am working on myself and if anything if she does not come back around then I will still be ok.
But if reconciliation is my goal, and divorce is what i want to avoid, how do I handle the changes she is making. Do I continue to 180 or remain in no contact, or do I show some interest. She keeps telling me how sad she is and how everything reminds her of us. It is hard to hear. Similar words she said while she was living with him, etc. So the words "i still love you and miss you" dont carry the same weight they used to. I know that when I have replied to her or opened up she pulled away harder.
I have had separation papers drawn up for some time. I am reluctant to send them to her because I dont want to kill any love she still has for me. She has killed most of the love I have for her. I do know that it is still repairable but that is something we both have to do together, and because I left the door open for her on that then it is on her to make her move.
In the end I just want to know that I did everything i could to keep our marriage and make the most informed moves, whether it works out or not.
If I were to forgive the affair/betrayal, our previous life together was worth fighting for.
thanks for the advice.


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## G.J.

mrwalters said:


> I realize that many of you have gone through this before, it is my guess that the experience has left a lot of you bitter, as it is doing to me as well.
> 
> *Some are still feeling like that but the majority if you read a lot of posts on threads in here you will see later in threads how the tack changes...*
> 
> .


Because of what she has done you really need to think if you want to R as that IS THE PERSON you married ....its her that has done this, its not an accident

Your feelings for your wife can not be turned off straight away..only time will allow them to dampen and not interfere with what your mind will tell you


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## Chaparral

You mistake bitterness for indifference and happy about it.

We are just trying to save you time. You are never going to forget what she has done. I took mine back and it took two years to see the relationship was destroyed by her. 
Sent her home and haven't seen her since. You're wife has done you way worse than I was done.

If you really want her back, post pictures of you with other women on faceebook. Then play hard to get.


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## ThePheonix

mrwalters said:


> I have had a successful attactive woman pursue me since this has happened, however I am not in the place where I need to date this girl so i cut ties with her.


That's where you screwed up in two ways, no three. First, there is little sign your ex is doing anything but playing you to keep her options open. You continue to make her your only plan even though she's demonstrated that when most optimistically viewed, you're plan B.
Second, you've turned away an opportunity with another girl that may have been an ideal replacement for the "Jezebel" that walked out.
Third, and most important, even if you think you just have to retrieve Ms. Hotbritches from the clutches of her f-buddy, nothing spikes a woman's interest like another woman showing she has interest in you. If she suspects another woman is after you, she'll be on you like a duck on a june bug. I am lucky enough to be very well built especially for my age. When my wife an I walked together in public, She always seems to hold my hand a little tighter when she sees other women noticing me.


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## aine

I agreed with all the posters til I read JohnA's post. You have glossed over the 'abuse' whatever it is. People cannot answer if they do not have the full picture. Everyone is yelling 'divorce her' but they don't know what you did. Perhaps you can enlighten us?
My question
Did you cause your wife a lot of pain? Did she do this to cause you the same pain? You get it that's why you will not let go?


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## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> I do see that pretty much everyone says the same thing. She has to be the one making all the moves and become transparent. I have not groveled towards her and that has helped tremendously. I do intend on reconciliation rather than divorce if that is possible.
> Where I am stuck at is when to allow her to contact me and how to reply to the contact.
> I have went dark, no facebook, social media, etc. I have had a successful attactive woman pursue me since this has happened, however I am not in the place where I need to date this girl so i cut ties with her. Don't need her to have a story about how she got caught in the middle of something like this if I can spare her that. That was super hard to do considering the circumstances. I do not want to further complicate things.
> I realize that many of you have gone through this before, it is my guess that the experience has left a lot of you bitter, as it is doing to me as well.
> I am working on myself and if anything if she does not come back around then I will still be ok.
> But if reconciliation is my goal, and divorce is what i want to avoid, how do I handle the changes she is making. Do I continue to 180 or remain in no contact, or do I show some interest. She keeps telling me how sad she is and how everything reminds her of us. It is hard to hear. Similar words she said while she was living with him, etc. So the words "i still love you and miss you" dont carry the same weight they used to. I know that when I have replied to her or opened up she pulled away harder.
> I have had separation papers drawn up for some time. I am reluctant to send them to her because I dont want to kill any love she still has for me. She has killed most of the love I have for her. I do know that it is still repairable but that is something we both have to do together, and because I left the door open for her on that then it is on her to make her move.
> In the end I just want to know that I did everything i could to keep our marriage and make the most informed moves, whether it works out or not.
> If I were to forgive the affair/betrayal, our previous life together was worth fighting for.
> thanks for the advice.


You don't get it at all. We tell you to dump this tramp of a wife and you accuse us of being bitter. What the hell do we care? You want to be a doormat and a fool go ahead. You want to share your remorseless wife with another men more power to you. Please don't tell me you are one of these "OM blamers" who thinks their WW was haplessly seduced and she's not to blame.

The point we are trying to make is, IF YOU HAD ANY SELF RESPECT YOU WOULDN'T WANT HER BACK. It's called being a man, have some boundries. Your man card was apparently revoked long ago. Where is your dignity? She's a cheater and a liar and you're just begging for more. Because that's all your going to get if you take her back. What kind of abuse did she inflict on you? You sound like an abuse victim obsessed with their abuser. 

I pity you. You're as much in fantasyland as your POS WW. The wife you thought you knew never existed or is dead. Either way, she is a pariah and she will never respect you again.


----------



## JohnA

Like others I noticed you blew right pass my questions. Your choice of language to describe her is the hallmark of a remorseful abuser. Until you provide the info I asked for my advise you get is worthless. I am not looking to hang you, just help you change
Untill you do I will assume worse case. 

As to your wife's statements; she does not love you or miss you. She is scared you will chase her and stalk her. She is grey rocking you hoping you give up and move on. I would also bet big the OM was you version 1.1 which is why she left him too.


----------



## turnera

mrwalters said:


> Where I am stuck at is when to allow her to contact me and how to reply to the contact.


We've already told you. It's pretty simple. 'Prove to me that you are no longer contacting him and we'll talk. Until then, I have nothing to say.'

HER job to figure out how to prove it to you.

btw, I'm not bitter. My H has never cheated in 35 years, and neither have I. I just know what works with cheating women and what doesn't. 

Strength works. 

Weakness turns them AWAY from you.

So be strong, be proud of yourself, know your worth, and make it clear to HER that you know your worth and won't just take back someone who doesn't deserve it. THEN - MAYBE - she'll respect you enough to fight for you.


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## TDSC60

mrwalters said:


> I know that when I have replied to her or opened up she pulled away harder.


She has no intention of coming back to you unless you kiss her azz and promise that you will be a good, obedient, little hubby. If you were even an option with her she would not back away when you make an overture.

Like the song says "You can't always get what you want. But if you try. Sometimes you get what you need." You are getting a look at the real woman that your wife is but will not accept it.

You need to file for divorce. Her reaction to that will tell you what you need to know. You have to be willing to end a marriage to save it on occasion.


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## ReformedHubby

I'd take it a step further and say she isn't coming back at all. If she was coming back she would have done so when the OM dumped her (yes, this is what happened). Right now she is living with her folks to see if she can find someone more exciting before settling and returning to the OP. Not trying to be mean but he might be plan C or D. Thats my read on it.


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## Kivlor

mrwalters said:


> I do see that pretty much everyone says the same thing. She has to be the one making all the moves and become transparent. I have not groveled towards her and that has helped tremendously. I do intend on reconciliation rather than divorce if that is possible.
> Where I am stuck at is when to allow her to contact me and how to reply to the contact.
> I have went dark, no facebook, social media, etc. I have had a successful attactive woman pursue me since this has happened, however I am not in the place where I need to date this girl so i cut ties with her. Don't need her to have a story about how she got caught in the middle of something like this if I can spare her that. That was super hard to do considering the circumstances. I do not want to further complicate things.
> I realize that many of you have gone through this before, it is my guess that the experience has left a lot of you bitter, as it is doing to me as well.
> I am working on myself and if anything if she does not come back around then I will still be ok.
> But if reconciliation is my goal, and divorce is what i want to avoid, how do I handle the changes she is making. Do I continue to 180 or remain in no contact, or do I show some interest. She keeps telling me how sad she is and how everything reminds her of us. It is hard to hear. Similar words she said while she was living with him, etc. So the words "i still love you and miss you" dont carry the same weight they used to. I know that when I have replied to her or opened up she pulled away harder.
> I have had separation papers drawn up for some time. I am reluctant to send them to her because I dont want to kill any love she still has for me. She has killed most of the love I have for her. I do know that it is still repairable but that is something we both have to do together, and because I left the door open for her on that then it is on her to make her move.
> In the end I just want to know that I did everything i could to keep our marriage and make the most informed moves, whether it works out or not.
> If I were to forgive the affair/betrayal, our previous life together was worth fighting for.
> thanks for the advice.


The 180 is to protect yourself. You don't stop doing it, you continue. Especially if she's still actively in an Affair--which your WW is.

It is not possible to be "just friends" with her Affair partner. Even if it were, it would not be healthy for your Marriage, and she knows that. She is placing him above you in importance; she has been doing so for 6+months.

You are talking about reconciliation, when she's still seeing another man. I'm not trying to be mean, but genuinely curious, do you find being a cuckold a turn on? Does sharing your W with another man excite you? Does it make you angry? 

You come across as if this is no big deal... is it?


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## mrwalters

As far as the other woman who was pursuing me, I am ok with letting that go for the reasons I stated. But you are correct, my wife did take notice and was livid with me for it. She has said a lot of non nonsensical things since the affair and leaving. One of them being that i needed to work on our marriage while she lived with OM.

I do know that she is lost and that she is not trying to purposely cause me pain. However whether she intends that or not the outcome is the same and I protect myself from it. At times she reminds me of a rebellious teenage girl.

I know that focusing on the negative will not get me anywhere. I am aware that she betrayed me, that she was sleeping with him, etc. I have had a lot of time to process all of that. I'm not lost in la-la land hoping on hope.
I'm not even sure I can reconcile with her when the time comes, but I do want to be sure that i am in a good place to make that decision.
I could go into detail about any arguments we had before the affair, but I don't want to dwell on things that cannot be changed. I do want to focus on making the correct and well informed choices and being sure that I deal with everything in a way that I can later look back on and be proud of my actions in spite of the circumstance.

I do know that some people make it past an affair and come out on the other side better. If I have a chance at doing that then I choose to allow that as an option.
I guess I already know the answer to my question, I don't need to go by her words and I need to allow her actions speak fro them self. 
He did not kick her out, she left. That does not mean that she won't go back either. I do know that if she does go back that it will only mean we are through... again... and I will then take it to the next step.
While I know that i cannot push her into being with me, or manipulate her decisions, I do want to provide her a safe place when it comes to conversation should she want to reconcile. Removing my emotions from this whole ordeal has been extremely tough. I had been on antidepressants and it helped a lot. I did ween myself off of them because I know it is a short term solution and i don't want to have to depend on them.
In any case I will have to go through with this one way or another. I don't think divorce will be any easier on me than the alternative. 

From what you all have mentioned I can see that it is pretty unanimous that she be the one to make the changes and be 100% committed. I guess time will tell if that happens. Probably nothing i can say or do that will help that along either. Its amazing how fast all of this unraveled.


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> I have had separation papers drawn up for some time. I am reluctant to send them to her because* I dont want to kill any love she still has for me.* She has killed most of the love I have for her.


There's the problem OP. You're afraid of losing her - by simply doing what you need to do, after she's betrayed and disrespected you. She knows that you fear divorce. She thinks she still has options. Don't give her any.

You're not "losing" her. She has already left you. Your path should be straight toward divorce. Don't contact her again. If she wants to communicate with you, make her jump through hoops to do it. If by some miracle she turns around, it will be because she realizes what she is going to lose;not because she thinks you will wait around as her plan B.


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## Bananapeel

mrwalters said:


> If I were to forgive the affair/betrayal, our previous life together was worth fighting for.
> thanks for the advice.


I understand where you are coming from. I had a great marriage and would have considered reconciliation with my XWW if it was possible to get that back (I recognized that wasn't possible for us and subsequently divorced her). The problem is that your previous life before the affair is over and you can't ever go back to that. You can have a new relationship with her from here forward but the old one is gone forever. So if you want reconciliation you need to define how you want your future marriage to be and decide if she will give that to you. For some people it works out and for others it doesn't. But for it to be successful you both need to want the same thing and be willing to work towards it. Sit down and take some time for each of you to think what you want in a marriage and see if your priorities are compatible and attainable. This way if you two are not still compatible you can proceed with divorce knowing that you tried your best to make it work. Either outcome is going to be a difficult process.


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## mrwalters

JohnA said:


> Like others I noticed you blew right pass my questions. Your choice of language to describe her is the hallmark of a remorseful abuser. Until you provide the info I asked for my advise you get is worthless. I am not looking to hang you, just help you change
> Untill you do I will assume worse case.
> 
> As to your wife's statements; she does not love you or miss you. She is scared you will chase her and stalk her. She is grey rocking you hoping you give up and move on. I would also bet big the OM was you version 1.1 which is why she left him too.


She's not worried about me like that. No physical violence, no threats. No screaming, etc. 
She had come back for a few days to visit and we did spend a day together. It was like old times. She did leave and went back. That's when I ceased all contact. She continued to text for another 2 months straight, and when I wouldn't answer she began to call. Then she left to be with her parents.
From what i heard from others the other guy was a spineless guy, about 100lbs less than me and follows her around like a lost puppy. The opposite of how I was. Before the affair I was the typical alpha male. Strong, muscular, ran my company, etc. The affair has more to do with her shortcomings than mine. She did not have a good income for several years, felt under appreciated, gained weight, etc. HE made her feel good about herself and she ran to him. I get it. before my marriage I had a girlfriend for a long time. Loved her to pieces. Then as things would have it someone else came along and I began dating her. I still was in love with the old GF, but the new girl made me feel good about myself. End of story. It's probably a little bit of the same thing. I had just thought that in marriage that couldn't happen and now I know better.

She has done her best to hide him off her FB and from everyone. Says she is ashamed of what she is doing, that it has been her worst regret. However it hasnt stopped her from doing it.
As far as helping me I have changed in a lot of ways for the better and continue to improve. This has been a catalyst for that.


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## The Middleman

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you would want to rebuild a life with this person, she sounds reprehensible! I say this with no malice: have some respect for yourself and move on.


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## mrwalters

badmemory said:


> There's the problem OP. You're afraid of losing her - by simply doing what you need to do, after she's betrayed and disrespected you. She knows that you fear divorce. She thinks she still has options. Don't give her any.
> 
> You're not "losing" her. She has already left you. Your path should be straight toward divorce. Don't contact her again. If she wants to communicate with you, make her jump through hoops to do it. If by some miracle she turns around, it will be because she realizes what she is going to lose;not because she thinks you will wait around as her plan B.


I agree. I am afraid of losing her and she knows it. I asked her why she didnt file and she told me that she doesn't see a future without me in it. 
You are probably very right. I just dont want to jump the gun and regret sending her papers, especially if she is coming out of "the fog"
It will be a tough decision to make, but I need to make a decision and all of this waiting has done very little for me.
I'm afraid if i do force the filing that she will run back to him as her safety net as everything comes crumbling down.
But being afraid of her hasn't helped me much either. Before the affair i held the cards in the relationship. Now that this has happened I hold near nothing and I think she has gotten off on it, even though she may never admit to it.
I am certain she is suffering through it. Maybe not more than I am, but she is suffering so it hasn't been a cakewalk for her either. She is constantly crying and upset. I used to think that meant she loved me, but I realize that she is probably upset because she made her own mess and doesnt know how to get out of it, or at least regrets getting into it. I really feel for her on it. But because it is her mess to get out of and she has done it to me I can't do much for her. That has really been the hardest part for me.


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## Retribution

mrwalters said:


> I agree. I am afraid of losing her and she knows it. I asked her why she didnt file and she told me that she doesn't see a future without me in it.
> You are probably very right. I just dont want to jump the gun and regret sending her papers, especially if she is coming out of "the fog"
> It will be a tough decision to make, but I need to make a decision and all of this waiting has done very little for me.
> I'm afraid if i do force the filing that she will run back to him as her safety net as everything comes crumbling down.
> But being afraid of her hasn't helped me much either. Before the affair i held the cards in the relationship. Now that this has happened I hold near nothing and I think she has gotten off on it, even though she may never admit to it.
> I am certain she is suffering through it. Maybe not more than I am, but she is suffering so it hasn't been a cakewalk for her either. She is constantly crying and upset. I used to think that meant she loved me, but I realize that she is probably upset because she made her own mess and doesnt know how to get out of it, or at least regrets getting into it. I really feel for her on it. But because it is her mess to get out of and she has done it to me I can't do much for her. That has really been the hardest part for me.


Here's the rub. I think you want to bring your wife back to you. The thing is you cannot control her or anyone else's actions. What you can do is give yourself the dignity and choices you deserve. If you file it will do one of two things. It will either drive her away, thus proving that she doesn't love you enough to work through this mess, and that you're better off without her. Or it will be a figurative slap in her face, and she'll come running back, and then you have the momentous job of reconciliation. 

You say you don't hold any of the cards, but you in reality have them all after what she did. Maybe you don't like your hand, but you still have all the cards, as long as you stop giving her cards to play with. Let her have her tears and crying. The fact remains that if she wants a relationship with you after the sh!t that she's pulled, then she needs to show some actions to back that up, because right now and for the last 6+ months her actions have told a much different story.


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## CantBelieveThis

I think you are in that fear stage yes, but I do believe if u take her back eventually over a few months u will develop a mountain of resent and anger for wat she has done, and wonder how u could ever taken her back.... This will likely happen, don't be oblivious to it. Think about it, she has literally rubbed the affair in your face for months, once your fear of losing her fades when u take her back get ready for the anger storm, it will come 

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk


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## DoneWithHurting

Once i lost my fear of losing my wife, our marriage improved greatly.

She even said a few weeks ago "please don't leave me"

Quite the opposite effect I expected.


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## TDSC60

mrwalters said:


> She has said a lot of non nonsensical things since the affair and leaving. One of them being that i needed to work on our marriage while she lived with OM.


You are kidding!!! She really said that to you!!

This woman is crazy and you cannot fix "crazy".

You have already done more than any betrayed spouse can be expected to do trying to save the marriage. As you say it is not working and she continues to move the finish line on you.

File now!


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> I agree. I am afraid of losing her and she knows it. I asked her why she didn't file and she told me that she doesn't see a future without me in it.
> You are probably very right. I just don't want to jump the gun and regret sending her papers, especially if she is coming out of "the fog"
> It will be a tough decision to make, but I need to make a decision and all of this waiting has done very little for me.
> I'm afraid if i do force the filing that she will run back to him as her safety net


And if she does that, you will know you were ONLY A CONVENIENCE. A tool to be used just like HE is. A tool for HER benefit. And you deserve better.

The waiting has done a lot for you. It just hasn't CONTROLLED her to make her come back. That's what you're really saying. 

The waiting has proved that you can survive without her, and that is your #1 need at this time - to see you will be fine either way.

You have to be willing to lose her to be able to save the marriage; in other words she has to see that you WILL move on without her, for her to be able to respect you, and ultimately want you.

And you don't have to file, but you sure as hell better not be asking her to come home. Not until SHE proves she deserves a second chance.


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## MarriedDude

@mrwalters

Why do you want her back?


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## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> I do see that pretty much everyone says the same thing. She has to be the one making all the moves and become transparent. I have not groveled towards her and that has helped tremendously. I do intend on reconciliation rather than divorce if that is possible.
> Where I am stuck at is when to allow her to contact me and how to reply to the contact.
> I have went dark, no facebook, social media, etc. I have had a successful attactive woman pursue me since this has happened, however I am not in the place where I need to date this girl so i cut ties with her. Don't need her to have a story about how she got caught in the middle of something like this if I can spare her that. That was super hard to do considering the circumstances. I do not want to further complicate things.
> I realize that many of you have gone through this before, it is my guess that the experience has left a lot of you bitter, as it is doing to me as well.
> I am working on myself and if anything if she does not come back around then I will still be ok.
> But if reconciliation is my goal, and divorce is what i want to avoid, how do I handle the changes she is making. Do I continue to 180 or remain in no contact, or do I show some interest. She keeps telling me how sad she is and how everything reminds her of us. It is hard to hear. Similar words she said while she was living with him, etc. So the words "i still love you and miss you" dont carry the same weight they used to. I know that when I have replied to her or opened up she pulled away harder.
> I have had separation papers drawn up for some time. I am reluctant to send them to her because I dont want to kill any love she still has for me. She has killed most of the love I have for her. I do know that it is still repairable but that is something we both have to do together, and because I left the door open for her on that then it is on her to make her move.
> In the end I just want to know that I did everything i could to keep our marriage and make the most informed moves, whether it works out or not.
> If I were to forgive the affair/betrayal, our previous life together was worth fighting for.
> thanks for the advice.


Sir, you are a successful man with NO kids! You have an almost endless supply of younger, hotter women that would love to treat you better than your wife. You have the upper hand here in every way in REALITY.
I know when my cheating wife left, I was devastated and really considered for a few seconds/few times that my life was not worth living with a broken family (I had multiple children with her).
I still feel great sadness over the loss of my family.

The thing is, SHE IS NOT FIGHTING FOR THE MARRIAGE. And even though she SAYS one thing, she is DOING another. Your wife is mentally unstable, to say the least. I don't believe in this affair fog stuff completely, but it is what it is. I don't believe once a woman does all these things, that her mind will ever be the same. For that reason, and many others, the best thing is to divorce. Let's say she was truly remorseful, stopped pursuing this other man (she WILL do this, I believe, just because he doesn't want her permanently), and comes back to you. Will you be able to forgive this? Forget it? Maybe forgive, but you WON'T forget. My advice is to give yourself some time to heal while the divorce goes through. If you still feel like reconciling a year from now, do it. But my thoughts are that just like us, you will reach a point where you see her as she really is, and that it won't be at all attractive to you. 
At that point, you can spend your energy learning to love a woman that loves you, rather than dealing with the **** sandwich that your wife has served, and will continue to serve you.
I believe infidelity can be forgiven, and even to an extent forgotten. But NOT in the circumstances which you have described your wife involved in. What she has done should clearly show you that she values your loyalty and love as low as........
You can't possibly be a sane person and forget that.

Do yourself a favor and file for divorce. NOW. You can always stop it. And for goodness sake, it's quite obvious that's what it will take to get this woman to take action.
Filing for divorce is in your best interest in ALL categories, whether you desire reconciliation or divorce.


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## Evinrude58

TDSC60 said:


> You are kidding!!! She really said that to you!!
> 
> This woman is crazy and you cannot fix "crazy".
> 
> You have already done more than any betrayed spouse can be expected to do trying to save the marriage. As you say it is not working and she continues to move the finish line on you.
> 
> File now!


If this woman is telling you that you need to work on the marriage while she f's another man, she is truly the queen of _____. 
Surely you can see this statement alone shows her incapable of empathy and an absolute narcissist of stellar proportions.

It's hard to believe ANY woman would say such a thing. It's ridiculous.


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## Marduk

My advice after her ****ing and living with at least one other guy for the past six months?

Forget her and start dating.

It's funny how clear situations get when its not just one person that has options. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrwalters

Retribution said:


> Here's the rub. I think you want to bring your wife back to you. The thing is you cannot control her or anyone else's actions. What you can do is give yourself the dignity and choices you deserve. If you file it will do one of two things. It will either drive her away, thus proving that she doesn't love you enough to work through this mess, and that you're better off without her. Or it will be a figurative slap in her face, and she'll come running back, and then you have the momentous job of reconciliation.
> 
> You say you don't hold any of the cards, but you in reality have them all after what she did. Maybe you don't like your hand, but you still have all the cards, as long as you stop giving her cards to play with. Let her have her tears and crying. The fact remains that if she wants a relationship with you after the sh!t that she's pulled, then she needs to show some actions to back that up, because right now and for the last 6+ months her actions have told a much different story.


very true. I guess I do have a couple cards left. Its just that I held onto these for so long that they are my last hand and I've been holding them close.
As far as the OM. I think it's beginning to fizzle out. But thats just a guess. if you were to stand us up side by side I'd come out on top in just about every way. Every way except for how he treated her and got to her while she was vulnerable. There had to be some things about him emotionally that she was drawn to. As far as sexually i do not know and I would rather not, but I have never had anything less than compliments, so i do have that going for my ego at least.
I figure before I file for divorce i will send her separation papers. They are not legally binding, but they will outline the divorce. At this point there is nothing for us to fight over so i am not at all concerned about money or property, etc. We don't have any children.
The biggest thing is I don't want her to think I am willing to throw her away too... I am certain she thinks she is worthless in many ways and she can't come to terms with what she did. Feeling worthless is what had brought her to the affair. In many ways she felt very down about herself during our relationship. I am not making excuses for her, but i did not help her in that regard and that was a huge failure on my part. The income differences between us was staggering. She is way more capable than I am, but at the time my career choice was better. So with all of this said, during her affair I am at odds. Of course what she did is horrible, but i don't need to make her feel horrible about it, she does that to herself. If after the affair is over the only way we can make it is if all of that has been fixed. i want to paint a picture that it can be fixed, but at the same time I do not want to be desperate about it either. 
As for the OM. I believe she is done with a relationship with him, or on her way out from it. Now don't get me wrong, I am not putting much faith into this, but it is my guess by her actions. Her parents probably would not accept him as they did me, her friends wouldn't think she upgraded in any way, and she is continuing to build her LinkedIn contacts back here in FL and nothing as far as CA. I think her going to AK is a stepping stone to get out of the affair. I want beyond anything to ask her about it, but i know that I will appear weak if i do so I say nothing. She did say to me that she is going to AK and that rather than talking about it she is taking steps to make changes. before she had said a lot of things, and her actions did not match her words. I brought that up long ago and told her that I will not believe her words anymore and only see her actions. Maybe she took it to heart. 
My fear is that she goes to AK, reaches out to me, and I continue to ignore her, she then turns to him and falls back into it all.
The other part of my fear is that she goes up there, speaks to both of us and because I do not set boundaries she vacillates between us and it pushes her away. 
I know that it is impossible to know which one of these things it is, but I figure there is a lot of knowledge here about it.
One of my best friends went through the same thing w his wife years ago. They worked it out, it took a long time and I think the only reason was because he was willing to put in the effort. however the thing that began snapping his wife out of it was him pulling back 100% and giving her separation papers. Then the hard work began. Now his wife and mine are two completely different people so i cant say what works for him will definitely work for me.


----------



## mrwalters

Bananapeel said:


> I understand where you are coming from. I had a great marriage and would have considered reconciliation with my XWW if it was possible to get that back (I recognized that wasn't possible for us and subsequently divorced her). The problem is that your previous life before the affair is over and you can't ever go back to that. You can have a new relationship with her from here forward but the old one is gone forever. So if you want reconciliation you need to define how you want your future marriage to be and decide if she will give that to you. For some people it works out and for others it doesn't. But for it to be successful you both need to want the same thing and be willing to work towards it. Sit down and take some time for each of you to think what you want in a marriage and see if your priorities are compatible and attainable. This way if you two are not still compatible you can proceed with divorce knowing that you tried your best to make it work. Either outcome is going to be a difficult process.


good advice. I do agree with you here. Our previous marriage is gone. Coming to that realization has been very very hard, and I still don't accept it. What we had was really great, the envy of everyone we knew. I cannot imagine getting that back, but I am willing to try to get a version of it back.
The other woman I met is about 12 years younger than my wife, from a family of doctors and she is a lawyer/ ex college cheerleader. Now with all of that being said she did not hold a candle to my wife in terms of intelligence and beauty and all the other things that matter.. before the affair that is. 
The affair has really killed my perspective of women. If the one I had picked could do all of this then I am certain that all the others can as well.
I never believed it before when guys would say that women are crazy. But yea, they are. She lost her mind during the affair. Last week she said she is coming out of it now and she was pleading with me that she only lost it for 6 months. She said "you could tell when you talked to me right, It wasnt the old me"
Part of me rejoiced, and part of me could hear the alien still in there.
And i do understand "the fog" a little. When I met the other girl she only wanted to be friends. She became my best friend down here. then over time she wanted me to file for divorce. If I were to bring up my wife she would get upset. Rightfully so..
And had I not read so much about affairs I would have been caught up with this girl as well, all the while being married. The difference is that i would have been justified.. probably just as my wife felt when she got caught up in all of it. 
So I did the harder thing and broke all contact with the girl and decided to stay the course, whether I reconcile with my wife or not.
its definitely the lonelier road but I need to work on me and not drown my misery in another relationship prematurely.


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## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> One of them being that i needed to work on our marriage while she lived with OM.


This woman has BALLS. Must be the ones she stole from you when she ran off with the OM. "Honey, I'm busy getting rammed from behind work on being a better husband and I'll get back to you.."



mrwalters said:


> I do know that she is lost and that she is not trying to purposely cause me pain. However whether she intends that or not the outcome is the same and I protect myself from it. At times she reminds me of a rebellious teenage girl.


LISTEN carefully. Your wife is NOT a naïve child! She is a GROWN woman who as made the choice to STAB you in the back. Stop projecting this bvllsh!t innocence onto her. You insult this women by assuming she too dumb to know she's doing wrong and frankly the only one who comes off as foolish is you. Your wife is much smarter than you think. She giggles about how pathetic your acting while OM bangs her.




mrwalters said:


> I know that focusing on the negative will not get me anywhere. I am aware that she betrayed me, that she was sleeping with him, etc. I have had a lot of time to process all of that. I'm not lost in la-la land hoping on hope.


Oh but you are.....



mrwalters said:


> I'm not even sure I can reconcile with her when the time comes, but I do want to be sure that i am in a good place to make that decision.


Trust me, she wouldn't be treating you LIKE DIRT if she thought for a second you wouldn't take her back. She's playing you like a fiddle.



mrwalters said:


> I do know that some people make it past an affair and come out on the other side better. If I have a chance at doing that then I choose to allow that as an option.


Yeah the 5% of cheaters who are ACTUALLY remorseful. Your wife is DEFINITELY NOT one of them.



mrwalters said:


> He did not kick her out, she left.


And you know this cause she told you that? Please....




mrwalters said:


> That does not mean that she won't go back either.


She would RUN back.



mrwalters said:


> In any case I will have to go through with this one way or another. I don't think divorce will be any easier on me than the alternative.


Divorce for you would be FREEDOM. You're in a limbo style HELL right now waiting for OM to hand you back sloppy seconds of your wife. [/QUOTE]



mrwalters said:


> I agree. I am afraid of losing her and she knows it. I asked her why she didnt file and she told me that she doesn't see a future without me in it.


She needs you as a backup plan. Nothing more. You are a tool to be used as she see fits.



mrwalters said:


> I just dont want to jump the gun and regret sending her papers, especially if she is coming out of "the fog"


No matter how badly I DISAGREE with everything you are doing. AT LEAST SEND HER DIVORCE PAPERS for god's sake. Even if you don't follow through send her a MESSAGE that you are not the FOOL she believes you to be. Command some self respect. You have NONE atm. Why would she respect you?



mrwalters said:


> I'm afraid if i do force the filing that she will run back to him as her safety net as everything comes crumbling down.


*Your FEAR is what is DESTROYING you. Not her.
*



mrwalters said:


> I am certain she is suffering through it. Maybe not more than I am, but she is suffering so it hasn't been a cakewalk for her either.


She's "suffering" because her life is "difficult" now. She doesn't care how you feel about at all. In her mind, it is ALL about her. She needs to keep you around as backup while she gets her sh!t together. Nothing more. She emotional distress is purely selfish, not compassionate.



mrwalters said:


> She is constantly crying and upset.


THOSE TEARS ARE NOT FOR YOU. Remember that. See above.




mrwalters said:


> I used to think that meant she loved me, but I realize that she is probably upset because she made her own mess and doesnt know how to get out of it, or at least regrets getting into it.


She only regrets HER life becoming "complicated".... See above.



mrwalters said:


> I really feel for her on it. But because it is her mess to get out of and she has done it to me I can't do much for her. That has really been the hardest part for me.


Wow she kicks you in the balls and you have sympathy for her? She is a master manipulator of your emotions. Tell me how long have you been such a "nice guy". Would you describe yourself as a "white knight". Do you validate yourself by helping others? Well looks like you found a pariah who smelled blood in the water and sunk her teeth into a poor schmuk like you. 

She thinks your a fool and a rube. You have so far proved her right. She has CONNED you into thinking she is a damsel in distress. Oh the irony my friend. You are HER chump. WAKE UP to that fact. *NO KIDS? RUN FOR THE HILLS!* DUMP THIS VILE WRETCH! Do the 180 to get over your love sick puppy attitude. You need someone to love. BUY A DOG. At least they are loyal and will respect you.


----------



## whitewolf

Excuse me...Let me get this straight . (1) Your wife had an affair...(2) She left you and moved across country to CA to live with the OM.....(3) She says YOU have to work on the marriage.....(4) She calls you from CA telling you how much she loves you while at the same time f***ing the OM.....(5) She comes back to visit you and then goes back to CA to the OM.... (6) She moves in with her parents and says that the affair is over but wants to keep the OM as a "friend"....(7) She gets upset because you date another woman.............My question is why you are still even talking to her? You are trying to cling to something that slipped out of your hands a long time ago. I get that you love her but you are setting yourself up for a future of heartache and misery. The only way you should take her back is if she comes back on her knees begging and then only as a live in partner not a wife. And please don't have any children with this woman. A child with her will be just another hook in your mouth and something she can use to keep you in line with he wants. And to set things straight, I am not bitter. I and my wife have been very happily married for 50 years (and we still have as much fun as we did in our 30's). I can tell you what makes a happy marriage, and young sir, what you are facing is not it. I was a career soldier and I have seen more than my share of good men who had their heart ripped out by a woman who only thought of themselves. Don't be one of those.


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> My fear is that she goes to AK, reaches out to me, and I continue to ignore her, she then turns to him and falls back into it all.


We've already told you how to fix that. 
"Wife, I love you, but I won't share you. As soon as you prove to me you're no longer contacting him or any other man, we can talk. Until then, I don't share my woman."



> As for the OM. I believe she is done with a relationship with him, or on her way out from it.


So what happens if you invite her back, she becomes complacent - because you're so damn EASY - and then ANOTHER POS guy catches her eye? She'll go right after him because you'll have PROVEN to her that you'll just sit there at night and wait for her to come home.


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## mrwalters

turnera said:


> And if she does that, you will know you were ONLY A CONVENIENCE. A tool to be used just like HE is. A tool for HER benefit. And you deserve better.
> 
> The waiting has done a lot for you. It just hasn't CONTROLLED her to make her come back. That's what you're really saying.
> 
> The waiting has proved that you can survive without her, and that is your #1 need at this time - to see you will be fine either way.
> 
> You have to be willing to lose her to be able to save the marriage; in other words she has to see that you WILL move on without her, for her to be able to respect you, and ultimately want you.
> 
> And you don't have to file, but you sure as hell better not be asking her to come home. Not until SHE proves she deserves a second chance.


True. it has helped me know that I will survive without her. In my mind when this first happened I would have never believed it would have lasted more than a couple weeks.
I also agree that I will have to be willing to lose her. I am trying to get there but quite honestly, I do not know exactly how to do it.
She knows that I am moving on without her. When she did see me last I painted a picture that i was doing extremely well. I had a lot going on for me. 
She did not have a lot going on for her, and that is something that she has over the other guy. He is worse off than her and she is a huge upgrade for him. Other than my ego/personality flaws, there is nothing for her to fix in me. And I got to tell you, this took my ego down a few hundred notches. it also gave me a lot of empathy for things I thought were very black and white. Before this I was the guy who would say dump her azz, etc. So when i hear others on here saying im a cuckold, etc. I know where they are coming from. However I also know that this is just the internet and people can say a lot of things behind a keyboard to a man who can bench 400+. at least here I dont air this to my peers, cant come back from that!
I appreciate your input on what waiting has done. Honestly, when i found out I thought my world ended. Then when she left I literally thought I would die. It was the first time I ever considered suicide. I sold all my guns the next day just in case.
I even went to therapy and took AD. Something the old me would have laughed about and made fun of before.
What i am getting out of this forum is everyone saying to not be a pushover.
Its amazing how before her affair I was a very strong person in many ways. And after it happened it took that from me and I couldn't find a way to hold onto it even though i could see it going. It was like my very being was changing.
I know that I got to find that part of me again to have any chance at reconciliation, should that present itself.
I am concerned about her. She is a delicate person and i worry that she not only destroyed parts of me but she also destroyed parts of her as well. Normally I would be the one to help save her, but how can I save her from this?
2 months after she left she would call crying telling me she had been gone for x days. i could tell she was genuinely upset. But it was crazy, it was like she thought I could stop her or change it or something. She woudl say "i miss you so much i cant breath" 
It always reminded me of a movie where an alien took over a person and they were fighting to get out. I know that is fiction, but her words and actions were just as crazy.
it didnt help me either. each time she contacted me like that it brought my hopes up that she was coming around. Then only to fall that much further.
If I didn't not have any emotion tied up into it I could act differently towards her and that would help a lot.


----------



## BetrayedDad

turnera said:


> We've already told you how to fix that.
> "Wife, I love you, but I won't share you. As soon as you prove to me you're no longer contacting him or any other man, we can talk. Until then, I don't share my woman."


Please don't encourage him. His wife ran off with another man, she is completely remorseless and she will never have any respect for him. He has no kids with her and she already left him to live at OM's house. She NOT WORTH fighting for or taking back. This relationship is not salvageable and any attempt to do so will FOREVER put him into doormat status.


----------



## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> One of them being that i needed to work on our marriage while she lived with OM.


This statement is so insidious it's worth quoting twice.

Ladies and gentlemen of TAM. This is a perfect example of a WS shamelessly attempting to cuckold her husband. 

The ultimate insult to any man with at least a shred of self respect. When this happens. It's 100% OVER. She has NO attraction left for him.


----------



## mrwalters

I did write her a letter. I had already sent it a couple weeks ago when she went back to her parents. So if I f'd up with it then it cannot be undone.
I dont like sharing this here, but because it offers a lot of insight I will attach it. 
After reading your comments I see that I probably messed up by sending it. She did reply and said "there is so much to say, so much to work on if we chose to, and that she was so sad"
So at least I did put it out there for her. I probably did hurt my chances and painted myself as a pushover again.

heres the letter---



WIFE--, 

I don't know how to start this letter. I've written it so many times in my mind but never put ink to paper. 

It's not something I think I ever discussed with you, but because you and I had lived it you know it all too well. What you don't know are the parts that I left out. The parts that were too painful to tell you. 

It's the story about the beginning of us. See, I do understand what you are going through, or at least partly. 

I just never wanted to tell you because I know how the story ended and I was afraid that if I told you then ours could follow the same course. But I also am realizing that not talking about things, and pretending everything is ok is not the solution either. 

When I had met you I had just been hurt very deeply. EX GIRLFRIEND had said something to me that set things in motion. She said "do whatever you want, just as long as I don't know about it" and I laughed it off. She then left for Seattle and we barely spoke. We were a couple, yet we had been broken up for more times than I can't count. So those words weren't the true cause of what happened next, but they did contribute greatly to it. It was the Years of emotional abandonment that had done the most damage. Over the next couple of weeks I started thinking how she could even love me and say that to me. Looking back she didn't mean it, and had she known how badly it would have hurt me I know she wouldn't have done it. It was immature on her part. 

I never intended on meeting you. In fact it was all new for me to even go out like that. 

Once I got to know you more and more I really began to like you. You were so nice. So well put together. I wanted everyone to know that you liked me because you were so great. Especially in how you treated me. The fact that you enjoyed spending time with me drove me to want to be with you more and more. It was by far what I was wanting the most. 

Yet at the same time I was still in love with EX GIRLFRIEND. I had just completely forgot about her. Like she didn't even exist in my mind for 6 weeks. I remember very vividly you asking me "am I sleeping with someone's boyfriend" and I told you I was single. But what I didn't tell you was that I was still in love with someone else, the full story. I somehow just didn't care at the time. 

I just wanted to feel good, to feel special, to be free and experience you. 

So I do know what it was like for you after you were so deeply hurt by me over and over, and again so very deep in Fairbanks. We never addressed it. We just simply swept those hurts under the rug and you allowed me to think you weren't devastated. I should have known better.


And how you found yourself in this situation you would have never in a million years found yourself in. -


When I started coming to realize that what I was doing was wrecking any chances of me and EX GIRLFRIEND I began to panic. I didn't want to think about it. I only wanted to keep moving, to feel happy. I couldn't imagine my life without her, she had been everything up until then. 

In the past, I had even put a down payment on a ring, but never went through with it. It was that serious for me with her. 

Then she found someone else and I was completely devastated. It was her reaction to me being with you. I remember to this day the sound in her voice the night she called and I could tell she had met someone. Like she didn't give a care about me anymore. 

I couldn't allow myself to think about it. 

Months went by and the pain was still there everyday, you even saw it in me. I knew it upset you. 

You were in love with me, and I was with you as basically a boyfriend and still in love with Kristen. Something not fair to you at all. 

Then the next summer came around. I left for Michigan for a week. I was trying to make distance between you and I. I was always trying to do that. Yet somehow I didn't want to be away from you for very long either. I just didn't want to be alone. I wanted my cake and to eat it too. I was being a coward and not making a decision. I simply wanted to be happy with no consequences, to live in the moment and the future, if I didn't think about it, wouldn't come. Something I now know is false. 

During my week in Michigan I text EX GIRLFRIEND a lot. It became like old times in some ways. I'd text both of you. It was like I wanted everything. Very childish. I just wanted to know that you would still be around and I still wanted a future with Kristen. I just couldn't imagine her forgiving me. She had only been with me up until then, and then I was with you. I didn't know how she could ever forgive that and I was stuck. There was a whole lot of hurt that was so deep we couldn't even begin to address it. 

I was in love with someone who would possibly hate me forever. Then later she had told me that GUY was just her friend, and they hadn't been together. I realized then that she was still waiting for me all along, she was just too hurt to be able to tell me her feelings. 

I was so shocked. She got so mad at me when she asked about you and accused me of sleeping with you, and for how long. And even though I wanted to say I was sorry with everything in me, I couldn't. Sorry just doesn't cut it. I could feel her seething inside, she tried to hide it, but it was there. And even though she was right for being angry, upset, and hurt. I just didn't want to face it. Why allow her to be angry with me when I can just talk to you, you were always nice. It was me not facing it. 

But then she still talked to me. Even though I had done what I thought she would never forgive. I told myself that I wasn't going to sleep with you. That I did have a chance to rebuild a life with her. That I'd work it out so that you and I could be "just friends." But you were too amazing. Too wonderful. You were just about everything I could want. I didn't want you to be with someone else. I didn't want to lose that part of you that made me feel so special. 

So that's when I came up with the plan to move to Florida. At least then I could tell her I wasn't with anybody, and possibly start working on our relationship again. I couldn't be around you. You were just too much of everything I wanted. Everything but you weren't her. She was great too, and I knew we had both learned a lot. We could rebuild. 

I didn't want to hurt you, but I was hurting so much I couldn't stand it. 

Then there was the couple of weeks that you and I hadn't talked as much. I was beginning to talk to EX GIRLFRIEND. 



I'll never forget her words. 

She said to me. 

"ME, I can't do this if there is someone else in the picture. "



up until then it was only text messages between her and I. We never had real conversations. And even though I could feel her anger and resentment, it was still like old times. Her laugh, I could tell things would be ok if they kept going like that. That there was progress and things would be ok. It was so odd to act normal around her again and laugh and joke like old times. Everything has been so serious, but once some of the grievances were aired things became light and easy again. Conversations weren't scary. 

I simply knew that she was right. I never answered her on that, I just listened to her and changed the subject. I had to break it off with you to even begin to see if I had a shot with her. I didn't want to agree with her, it had to be my decision because I wasn't going to allow her to control me. I get that she had too much control before and that was a hot button for me. 



Then there was the night I came over to your house after talking all day about simple things with you, as we always did so easily. This was after EX GIRLFRIEND and I had talked for a couple weeks prior. I knew she felt we were proceeding towards a life together, though we never said it. That would be the only reason for her and I to talk. We couldn't be just friends, we loved each other.



Like always you were just too cute, too nice, to comfortable. You were, you. 

And we slept together. Something that was always amazing with you. The next morning EX GIRLFRIEND found out that I was over at your house. She called me up and said "you lied to me!!!" And hung up. 

Me, being young and naive, let it go at that. She had allowed her heart to begin to open to me after so long of closing it. And even though I had done nothing too different than before, it was the last straw and her heart broke entirely for me that day. I didn't even realize. 

And shortly after she began dating GUY and making plans to move to be with him. 

But my future, it was still her. I couldn't see any new future. 

So I continued to make my plans to go to Florida. To run as far as I could. 

Somehow the timing was that when I left on the alcan she left to see GUY. In Canada she updated her MySpace status to that she was happy and in love. 

I KNEW then that there would never be a future with us in it ever again. That's when I began to let her go. I had waited too long. 



I put this memory deep in the back of my mind. 



Then, over time, I began a real relationship with you. 

I would still occasionally look at her Facebook the first couple of years, knowing that I had let my one chance at being with her go. I mourned it a long time. I had made a promise to myself when I was young, that I'd wait for the one, and only be with her. And she was, at that time, the one. What I had did I would have never imagined in a million years. I gave up on my dream of her, of us. And when I had the opportunity to get it back it was ME who let it go. I let it go by not making a real decision in how I wanted my future to go. Because I know now that ultimately you love the one you are with the most. And I was with you the most. She was with him the most.



I mourned the loss, and I moved on with you. I fell in love with you more than I had ever dreamed possible. I felt that I met the one in a million! So much so that I wanted every bit of my future to be with you. So I married you, and it was a beautiful wedding. Thank you for doing so well on planning it. It was the beginning of our new adult life together. 



I never told you this story. It would be too hurtful. Especially since then I had rewritten my whole future to be only you. I became so happy to be called yours, and to call you mine. My love for you had made anything else prior pale. 



I know you hated her. And you hated that I loved her and I was with you, I totally understand. I know you still carry that resentment with you, and it is VERY VERY deep. If I could erase any hurt, I promise I would. You mean so much to me. 

I realize that that was just a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. But for me and because I love so hard it was real. I had never imagined something similar could happen in our marriage.

That's why I never wanted to tell you my side of the story. You are so wonderful and even though I do mess up, I never want to hurt you. And I knew this story would hurt, or at least bring up past hurts. 

But it is the truth, and that is something that the two of us have glossed over on more than one occasion trying to protect one another. It doesn't protect, it only allows us to hold onto past hurts and pretend things are ok. 

Not communicating our hurts to each other effectively has been a real issue between us for a long time. You being afraid to tell me the things that bother you the most, and just how deeply they do hurt you. 







And now you are in a similar position. My story ended happy over time, I did find the girl of my dreams. It was YOU. I got really lucky that I found you. I know that with everything in me. If I could have frozen that day in a Groundhog Day moment and met a million others, I still would have been searching for you, and finally when I did meet you the next day would come with the alarm clock singing a new melody. 



So instead of holding in hurts and pretending things don't matter I will say exactly what it is I feel. 



I'm at the place where my love for you has been so deeply hurt that I am starting to let go inside. I don't want to. I had fought for it. I let the phone bill go so you and I could be linked, if at only the smallest level. I never wanted to delete your pictures off my Facebook. You were my whole world!!!! It broke my heart to pieces. We were supposed to protect and love each other the most!





When I had married you I thought we would be together until we died. Just like your parents. The perfect couple, just like how NIECE said to you that she wanted a marriage like yours and mine and Grammy and poppas, one that stands the test of time. 

That was our plan. I know that taking you for granted. The times I didn't show you affection on purpose, somehow naively thinking that I was doing it right. Ego being a huge problem on my part and me not realizing it. The times I judged you, allowed you to think you were anything but the most beautiful person in the world. How you hold your hands in front of you, I now see it in others who haven't been told enough by the one they love that they are beautiful no matter what. That they are filled up with love and confidence. That they are accepted, fully, faults and all. That's how a real husband is, I see it everyday in the older & wiser successful marriages that come through my office that shine a light on my shortcomings as your boyfriend and then as your husband. 

I know I messed up, and maybe partly because I know that, maybe that's how I also hung on to you for so long. But mainly the reason I hung on to you after this is that I had so much love built up for you. More than even I knew myself. I just simply don't want a future without you in it, fully. I could write paragraphs explaining my shortcomings, baby, please know that I do see them and I am continuing to work on them.

I thought our marriage would be protected from all of this. And even though I do get mad and angry about what happened. Do know that I fully intend on getting past it one way or another, because I must. 



We really did hurt each other. 

You said that you wanted to start to talk again when you went to Alaska. I would like that. You had also asked what it would look like if you came back. It's hard to imagine from here, but if it was built brick by brick then it wouldn't be hard to imagine someday. Just like how all of this happened. It was tore down brick by brick. And now we are here. Neither of us ever saw this coming either. There can be a light at the end of the tunnel if we both choose to look for it. 



I also know that anytime I open myself up to you and you hurt me that it takes so much out of me that I can't begin to tell you what it is doing. It takes so much for me to allow myself to open up to you. When it comes to the affair, I'm at my last straw. 



If I knew my heart in that regard was protected I could begin working on things with you. Just as I'm sure it is the same for you. For me it begins and ends there. I feel that for you, you need to heal from a whole lot of things. Probably things you can't and don't want to talk to me about, possibly for a long time if ever. I'm willing to be there for you through it. I married you for better or worse, and whether you became sick forever I would be by your side through thick and thin. But I cannot hold onto you during this, and I'm afraid you will wait, like I had, until it is too late. 

I know if we are to work on things we will need help. I am willing to do the things it takes to make our marriage what it always could have been. I'm willing to try, for a shot at a future with the girl of my dreams. 

Many couples before us have done it, none of them said it was easy, all of them said it was worth it. They probably didn't love like you and I either. It'd be a shame to lose that forever. Whatever happens, I'll be forever grateful for the wonderful memories that I have with you. 





But,

"WIFE, It won't work if someone else is in the picture "


----------



## thenub

Benching 400+ is impressive to say the least. I guess your dignity and self respect are a few lbs. above you 1 rep best. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eric1

I can't even deadlift 400 lol


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## funengineer

mrwalters

Stop it, 

many people here replied to your thread on what to do but you are still not listening.


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## Kivlor

*Stop.
Talking.
To.
Her.*


----------



## Be smart

I am going to be brutal honest with you my friend. I read your letter two times,because my English is not good. Please dont think I want to put you even lower or hurt you.

If I was your wife I would never come back to you. I would pull you for your nose and keep telling you stories that you want to hear,while on other hand I will be sleeping with OM and maybe more of them. 

Reading this letter I lost some respect for you and I dont even know you. Can you imagine what your wife thinks about you ? 

You dont beg your wife to come back,becasue you never left your marriage. 

Once you said "she is not trying to hurt me",come on she left you for another man and she moved in with him. 

Now she is dumped by this OM and she is back in her parents home like some 18 year old with no place to stay and no money.

She got really huge ball$$ when she told you "you have to change and work harder for marriage"

Talk with your lawyer and serve her with D papers.


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## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> However I also know that this is just the internet and people can say a lot of things behind a keyboard to a man who can bench 400+. at least here I dont air this to my peers, cant come back from that!


Look bud, no one is saying anything here to insult you or be cruel. It's the truth and you need to hear it. You're obviously not thinking straight. 

It's clear this woman has fvcked your head up and manipulated you with her lies. You're ready to make a slew of bad decisions you will regret later on.

ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. Remember that. When she was telling you she missed you over the phone from WHO'S bed was making the call?!?

Get into individual counseling today and seek professional help. You need it. I need to run to home depot. I'm fresh out of 2x4's. Good luck.


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## Marduk

Your wife is delusional and she's found not one but two men to sustain her delusion. 

You're enabling her behaviour.

If you want her to keep doing what she's doing, keep doing what you're doing. 

If you want this to change, then you need to change. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrwalters

Be smart said:


> I am going to be brutal honest with you my friend. I read your letter two times,because my English is not good. Please dont think I want to put you even lower or hurt you.
> 
> If I was your wife I would never come back to you. I would pull you for your nose and keep telling you stories that you want to hear,while on other hand I will be sleeping with OM and maybe more of them.
> 
> Reading this letter I lost some respect for you and I dont even know you. Can you imagine what your wife thinks about you ?
> 
> You dont beg your wife to come back,becasue you never left your marriage.
> 
> Once you said "she is not trying to hurt me",come on she left you for another man and she moved in with him.
> 
> Now she is dumped by this OM and she is back in her parents home like some 18 year old with no place to stay and no money.
> 
> She got really huge ball$$ when she told you "you have to change and work harder for marriage"
> 
> Talk with your lawyer and serve her with D papers.


I do appreciate the advice.
It was not my intention to appear weak, but to lay it all out on the line and tell her that I was not putting up with it.
She knows me very well, so she also knows that I do not fly off the handle and i am very deliberate in how I operate. The letter was to tell her how I have empathy for it by letting her know I was there once and what had happened as a result of my inaction.
I told her I was not going to hold onto her during her affair, and also provided her a way to see that I would get over it if we chose to reconcile.

But I know that you are correct. I was not strong enough in the letter. That will probably have to be the next step where I send the separation papers. I have them drawn up and sitting on my desk. She knows about them because the last time I spoke i mentioned it.

I know that to many of you i appear weak. And hearing that unanimously helps me realize that if you think it then you all cant be wrong.
But also realize that my intention is reconciliation. Divorce is what i will do when the affair continues. I do not want to send those papers until I am 100% sure that is what i want to do.
I know that either of us can divorce and end it, and that it will take two of us to reconcile. I was hoping that my letter would soften part of her heart towards me.
I do know that she is not inherently a bad person, and the only way she got caught up in this is through some terrible mistakes and her emotions. Her logic went straight out the window. I am trying to speak to her emotions.


----------



## turnera

mrwalters said:


> Other than my ego/personality flaws, there is nothing for her to fix in me. And I got to tell you, this took my ego down a few hundred notches.
> 
> I appreciate your input on what waiting has done. Honestly, when i found out I thought my world ended. Then when she left I literally thought I would die. It was the first time I ever considered suicide. I sold all my guns the next day just in case.
> I even went to therapy and took AD. Something the old me would have laughed about and made fun of before.
> What i am getting out of this forum is everyone saying to not be a pushover.
> Its amazing how before her affair I was a very strong person in many ways.
> 
> I am concerned about her. She is a delicate person and i worry that she not only destroyed parts of me but she also destroyed parts of her as well. Normally I would be the one to help save her, but how can I save her from this?
> 
> 2 months after she left she would call crying telling me she had been gone for x days. i could tell she was genuinely upset. But it was crazy, it was like she thought I could stop her or change it or something. She woudl say "i miss you so much i cant breath"


See, this was her subconsciously USING you as her crutch, as her Plan B, putting out feelers to make sure you were still there. I don't think she even knows she's doing it. It's basic psychology.

She's a delicate flower?

Well, maybe she needs to finally grow up. And be a grownup adult who takes her lumps like the rest of us.

If you let her come back BEFORE that happens, she will NEVER learn what she needs to learn, NEVER become a whole, decent person, will FOREVER be your little baby whom you protect at your own expense, and, the first time it presents itself...she'll run off AGAIN to soothe her ego with another man because you'll have proven to her that you'll do ANYTHING to keep her around you.

In other words, you will become her ENABLER.

And you know the meaning of that, right? The enabler is the one who helps the sick person NOT look at themselves, NOT fix themselves, and KEEP doing unhealthy actions.

If you want her in your life, you have to let her crash and burn. You have to let her suffer. You have to let her EARN you back. If you don't, you will be her DOORMAT. 

And no healthy woman will EVER love her doormat.

She will just remain unhealthy and continue to use you for what you have set yourself up for - to have her wipe her feet on you.


----------



## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> But also realize that my intention is reconciliation.


We realize that only too well. But that is a mistaken mindset. Your intention, should be to have the "best outcome" for you; whether D or R. 

And right now that best outcome trajectory is toward D. There's a very small chance that could change if she completely turns around; but that is even more unlikely to happen if you don't follow the advice you've been given.


----------



## ThePheonix

mrwalters said:


> Of course what she did is horrible, but i don't need to make her feel horrible about it, she does that to herself.


You really don't understand women at all. I assure you she doesn't feel horrible about it at all. Here's a clue. If she felt horrible about it, she wouldn't have told you she's going to be laying up with another man while you change. If she wanted to be with you, she would have come home to your open arms. 
You sound completely out of touch my man and want her to pick you back up on her way down. Were the hell did you get your ideas about women?


----------



## Be smart

mrwalters said:


> I do appreciate the advice.
> It was not my intention to appear weak, but to lay it all out on the line and tell her that I was not putting up with it.
> She knows me very well, so she also knows that I do not fly off the handle and i am very deliberate in how I operate. The letter was to tell her how I have empathy for it by letting her know I was there once and what had happened as a result of my inaction.
> I told her I was not going to hold onto her during her affair, and also provided her a way to see that I would get over it if we chose to reconcile.
> 
> But I know that you are correct. I was not strong enough in the letter. That will probably have to be the next step where I send the separation papers. I have them drawn up and sitting on my desk. She knows about them because the last time I spoke i mentioned it.
> 
> I know that to many of you i appear weak. And hearing that unanimously helps me realize that if you think it then you all cant be wrong.
> But also realize that my intention is reconciliation. Divorce is what i will do when the affair continues. I do not want to send those papers until I am 100% sure that is what i want to do.
> I know that either of us can divorce and end it, and that it will take two of us to reconcile. I was hoping that my letter would soften part of her heart towards me.
> I do know that she is not inherently a bad person, and the only way she got caught up in this is through some terrible mistakes and her emotions. Her logic went straight out the window. I am trying to speak to her emotions.


First thing and most important you need to learn is that,this is not a MISTAKE. 

She is old enough to make decisions by herself and she choose wrong.
She moved in with her lover boy and now she is dumped by him so she dont have a clue what she wants from her life,so she is using you as her plan B.

You are correct when you said that your wife knows you really well,but the problem here is that you dont know anything about her. You still got the picture of her before she cheated and moved out. She is now different person.

She is really smart woman and she knows you are going to take her back no matter if you choose to Separate or give her another 6 months to "find herself".

Noone is considering you a weak man. I would call you a blind man,because you dont want to open your eyes and see the truth. I hope I didnt hurt you. I dont know how else to write this,sorry.

Other thing what you need to think about is-your wife is the only one you should blame for this. Not you,not OM,not me or anyone else. 

Also her weight problems,money problems,OM having 300 kilos,mid life crisis are another excuse for havinag an Affair.


----------



## MarriedDude

mrwalters said:


> WIFE--,
> 
> I don't know how to start this letter. I've written it so many times in my mind but never put ink to paper.
> 
> It's not something I think I ever discussed with you, but because you and I had lived it you know it all too well. What you don't know are the parts that I left out. The parts that were too painful to tell you.
> 
> It's the story about the beginning of us. See, I do understand what you are going through, or at least partly.
> 
> I just never wanted to tell you because I know how the story ended and I was afraid that if I told you then ours could follow the same course. But I also am realizing that not talking about things, and pretending everything is ok is not the solution either.
> 
> When I had met you I had just been hurt very deeply. EX GIRLFRIEND had said something to me that set things in motion. She said "do whatever you want, just as long as I don't know about it" and I laughed it off. She then left for Seattle and we barely spoke. We were a couple, yet we had been broken up for more times than I can't count. So those words weren't the true cause of what happened next, but they did contribute greatly to it. It was the Years of emotional abandonment that had done the most damage. Over the next couple of weeks I started thinking how she could even love me and say that to me. Looking back she didn't mean it, and had she known how badly it would have hurt me I know she wouldn't have done it. It was immature on her part.
> 
> I never intended on meeting you. In fact it was all new for me to even go out like that.
> 
> Once I got to know you more and more I really began to like you. You were so nice. So well put together. I wanted everyone to know that you liked me because you were so great. Especially in how you treated me. The fact that you enjoyed spending time with me drove me to want to be with you more and more. It was by far what I was wanting the most.
> 
> Yet at the same time I was still in love with EX GIRLFRIEND. I had just completely forgot about her. Like she didn't even exist in my mind for 6 weeks. I remember very vividly you asking me "am I sleeping with someone's boyfriend" and I told you I was single. But what I didn't tell you was that I was still in love with someone else, the full story. I somehow just didn't care at the time.
> 
> I just wanted to feel good, to feel special, to be free and experience you.
> 
> So I do know what it was like for you after you were so deeply hurt by me over and over, and again so very deep in Fairbanks. We never addressed it. We just simply swept those hurts under the rug and you allowed me to think you weren't devastated. I should have known better.
> 
> 
> And how you found yourself in this situation you would have never in a million years found yourself in. -
> 
> 
> When I started coming to realize that what I was doing was wrecking any chances of me and EX GIRLFRIEND I began to panic. I didn't want to think about it. I only wanted to keep moving, to feel happy. I couldn't imagine my life without her, she had been everything up until then.
> 
> In the past, I had even put a down payment on a ring, but never went through with it. It was that serious for me with her.
> 
> Then she found someone else and I was completely devastated. It was her reaction to me being with you. I remember to this day the sound in her voice the night she called and I could tell she had met someone. Like she didn't give a care about me anymore.
> 
> I couldn't allow myself to think about it.
> 
> Months went by and the pain was still there everyday, you even saw it in me. I knew it upset you.
> 
> You were in love with me, and I was with you as basically a boyfriend and still in love with Kristen. Something not fair to you at all.
> 
> Then the next summer came around. I left for Michigan for a week. I was trying to make distance between you and I. I was always trying to do that. Yet somehow I didn't want to be away from you for very long either. I just didn't want to be alone. I wanted my cake and to eat it too. I was being a coward and not making a decision. I simply wanted to be happy with no consequences, to live in the moment and the future, if I didn't think about it, wouldn't come. Something I now know is false.
> 
> During my week in Michigan I text EX GIRLFRIEND a lot. It became like old times in some ways. I'd text both of you. It was like I wanted everything. Very childish. I just wanted to know that you would still be around and I still wanted a future with Kristen. I just couldn't imagine her forgiving me. She had only been with me up until then, and then I was with you. I didn't know how she could ever forgive that and I was stuck. There was a whole lot of hurt that was so deep we couldn't even begin to address it.
> 
> I was in love with someone who would possibly hate me forever. Then later she had told me that GUY was just her friend, and they hadn't been together. I realized then that she was still waiting for me all along, she was just too hurt to be able to tell me her feelings.
> 
> I was so shocked. She got so mad at me when she asked about you and accused me of sleeping with you, and for how long. And even though I wanted to say I was sorry with everything in me, I couldn't. Sorry just doesn't cut it. I could feel her seething inside, she tried to hide it, but it was there. And even though she was right for being angry, upset, and hurt. I just didn't want to face it. Why allow her to be angry with me when I can just talk to you, you were always nice. It was me not facing it.
> 
> But then she still talked to me. Even though I had done what I thought she would never forgive. I told myself that I wasn't going to sleep with you. That I did have a chance to rebuild a life with her. That I'd work it out so that you and I could be "just friends." But you were too amazing. Too wonderful. You were just about everything I could want. I didn't want you to be with someone else. I didn't want to lose that part of you that made me feel so special.
> 
> So that's when I came up with the plan to move to Florida. At least then I could tell her I wasn't with anybody, and possibly start working on our relationship again. I couldn't be around you. You were just too much of everything I wanted. Everything but you weren't her. She was great too, and I knew we had both learned a lot. We could rebuild.
> 
> I didn't want to hurt you, but I was hurting so much I couldn't stand it.
> 
> Then there was the couple of weeks that you and I hadn't talked as much. I was beginning to talk to EX GIRLFRIEND.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll never forget her words.
> 
> She said to me.
> 
> "ME, I can't do this if there is someone else in the picture. "
> 
> 
> 
> up until then it was only text messages between her and I. We never had real conversations. And even though I could feel her anger and resentment, it was still like old times. Her laugh, I could tell things would be ok if they kept going like that. That there was progress and things would be ok. It was so odd to act normal around her again and laugh and joke like old times. Everything has been so serious, but once some of the grievances were aired things became light and easy again. Conversations weren't scary.
> 
> I simply knew that she was right. I never answered her on that, I just listened to her and changed the subject. I had to break it off with you to even begin to see if I had a shot with her. I didn't want to agree with her, it had to be my decision because I wasn't going to allow her to control me. I get that she had too much control before and that was a hot button for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Then there was the night I came over to your house after talking all day about simple things with you, as we always did so easily. This was after EX GIRLFRIEND and I had talked for a couple weeks prior. I knew she felt we were proceeding towards a life together, though we never said it. That would be the only reason for her and I to talk. We couldn't be just friends, we loved each other.
> 
> 
> 
> Like always you were just too cute, too nice, to comfortable. You were, you.
> 
> And we slept together. Something that was always amazing with you. The next morning EX GIRLFRIEND found out that I was over at your house. She called me up and said "you lied to me!!!" And hung up.
> 
> Me, being young and naive, let it go at that. She had allowed her heart to begin to open to me after so long of closing it. And even though I had done nothing too different than before, it was the last straw and her heart broke entirely for me that day. I didn't even realize.
> 
> And shortly after she began dating GUY and making plans to move to be with him.
> 
> But my future, it was still her. I couldn't see any new future.
> 
> So I continued to make my plans to go to Florida. To run as far as I could.
> 
> Somehow the timing was that when I left on the alcan she left to see GUY. In Canada she updated her MySpace status to that she was happy and in love.
> 
> I KNEW then that there would never be a future with us in it ever again. That's when I began to let her go. I had waited too long.
> 
> 
> 
> I put this memory deep in the back of my mind.
> 
> 
> 
> Then, over time, I began a real relationship with you.
> 
> I would still occasionally look at her Facebook the first couple of years, knowing that I had let my one chance at being with her go. I mourned it a long time. I had made a promise to myself when I was young, that I'd wait for the one, and only be with her. And she was, at that time, the one. What I had did I would have never imagined in a million years. I gave up on my dream of her, of us. And when I had the opportunity to get it back it was ME who let it go. I let it go by not making a real decision in how I wanted my future to go. Because I know now that ultimately you love the one you are with the most. And I was with you the most. She was with him the most.
> 
> 
> 
> I mourned the loss, and I moved on with you. I fell in love with you more than I had ever dreamed possible. I felt that I met the one in a million! So much so that I wanted every bit of my future to be with you. So I married you, and it was a beautiful wedding. Thank you for doing so well on planning it. It was the beginning of our new adult life together.
> 
> 
> 
> I never told you this story. It would be too hurtful. Especially since then I had rewritten my whole future to be only you. I became so happy to be called yours, and to call you mine. My love for you had made anything else prior pale.
> 
> 
> 
> I know you hated her. And you hated that I loved her and I was with you, I totally understand. I know you still carry that resentment with you, and it is VERY VERY deep. If I could erase any hurt, I promise I would. You mean so much to me.
> 
> I realize that that was just a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. But for me and because I love so hard it was real. I had never imagined something similar could happen in our marriage.
> 
> That's why I never wanted to tell you my side of the story. You are so wonderful and even though I do mess up, I never want to hurt you. And I knew this story would hurt, or at least bring up past hurts.
> 
> But it is the truth, and that is something that the two of us have glossed over on more than one occasion trying to protect one another. It doesn't protect, it only allows us to hold onto past hurts and pretend things are ok.
> 
> Not communicating our hurts to each other effectively has been a real issue between us for a long time. You being afraid to tell me the things that bother you the most, and just how deeply they do hurt you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And now you are in a similar position. My story ended happy over time, I did find the girl of my dreams. It was YOU. I got really lucky that I found you. I know that with everything in me. If I could have frozen that day in a Groundhog Day moment and met a million others, I still would have been searching for you, and finally when I did meet you the next day would come with the alarm clock singing a new melody.
> 
> 
> 
> So instead of holding in hurts and pretending things don't matter I will say exactly what it is I feel.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm at the place where my love for you has been so deeply hurt that I am starting to let go inside. I don't want to. I had fought for it. I let the phone bill go so you and I could be linked, if at only the smallest level. I never wanted to delete your pictures off my Facebook. You were my whole world!!!! It broke my heart to pieces. We were supposed to protect and love each other the most!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I had married you I thought we would be together until we died. Just like your parents. The perfect couple, just like how NIECE said to you that she wanted a marriage like yours and mine and Grammy and poppas, one that stands the test of time.
> 
> That was our plan. I know that taking you for granted. The times I didn't show you affection on purpose, somehow naively thinking that I was doing it right. Ego being a huge problem on my part and me not realizing it. The times I judged you, allowed you to think you were anything but the most beautiful person in the world. How you hold your hands in front of you, I now see it in others who haven't been told enough by the one they love that they are beautiful no matter what. That they are filled up with love and confidence. That they are accepted, fully, faults and all. That's how a real husband is, I see it everyday in the older & wiser successful marriages that come through my office that shine a light on my shortcomings as your boyfriend and then as your husband.
> 
> I know I messed up, and maybe partly because I know that, maybe that's how I also hung on to you for so long. But mainly the reason I hung on to you after this is that I had so much love built up for you. More than even I knew myself. I just simply don't want a future without you in it, fully. I could write paragraphs explaining my shortcomings, baby, please know that I do see them and I am continuing to work on them.
> 
> I thought our marriage would be protected from all of this. And even though I do get mad and angry about what happened. *Do know that I fully intend on getting past it one way or another, because I must.*
> 
> So your pretty much telling her that...no matter what...you fully intend to get past it. Do you REALLY believe this?
> 
> We really did hurt each other.
> 
> You said that you wanted to start to talk again when you went to Alaska. I would like that. You had also asked what it would look like if you came back. It's hard to imagine from here, but if it was built brick by brick then it wouldn't be hard to imagine someday. Just like how all of this happened. It was tore down brick by brick. And now we are here. Neither of us ever saw this coming either. There can be a light at the end of the tunnel if we both choose to look for it.
> 
> 
> 
> I also know that anytime I open myself up to you and you hurt me that it takes so much out of me that I can't begin to tell you what it is doing. It takes so much for me to allow myself to open up to you. When it comes to the affair, *I'm at my last straw. *
> 
> Your just now at your last straw???
> 
> If I knew my heart in that regard was protected I could begin working on things with you. Just as I'm sure it is the same for you. For me it begins and ends there. I feel that for you, you need to heal from a whole lot of things. *Probably things you can't and don't want to talk to me about, possibly for a long time if ever. I'm willing to be there for you through it.* I married you for better or worse, and whether you became sick forever I would be by your side through thick and thin. But I cannot hold onto you during this, and I'm afraid you will wait, like I had, until it is too late.
> 
> So....there's her out. If she doesn't want to talk about EVERYTHING that has happened she doesn't have to....Please Please Please realize that there is no way in hell you will be able to live with that long term. Also...this sure does seem pretty needy...Being afraid she'll wait too long...hell, it's already been 6 months...whats too long?
> 
> 
> I know if we are to work on things we will need help. I am willing to do the things it takes to make our marriage what it always could have been. I'm willing to try, for a shot at a future with the girl of my dreams.
> 
> Many couples before us have done it, none of them said it was easy, all of them said it was worth it. They probably didn't love like you and I either. It'd be a shame to lose that forever. Whatever happens, I'll be forever grateful for the wonderful memories that I have with you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But,
> 
> "WIFE, It won't work if someone else is in the picture "


What were you really trying to do with letter? Why all the talk of the other girlfriend? You spent roughly half the woods of the letter talking about another woman.


----------



## Marc878

This is fairly simple.

No contact with OM forever. Period!!! No contac letter written by her and sent by you.

Full transparency.

She comes clean to you and all family.

I'd give her a deadline and file tell her the clock is ticking. It's up to her but no promises if it works out or not.

If she can't do this you will have no chance of reconciliation. All you are guaranteeing at this time with your inaction is more limbo hell.


----------



## Marduk

Let me tell you a story. 

My wife starts being cold. Then mean. Then abusive. Then announces she wants a trial separation. 

Two or three months later, after me trying to pick up the pieces and make it work on the one phone call a week that she would allow, she informs me that it's permanent. 

I'm devastated again. There are no answers, there are no reasons, there are only questions and accusations. 

Then one day I find out she was cheating on me all along. And things start to make sense. 

But part of me still wanted her back. But, I allowed myself to date. So I say yes to a few dates, and then say yes when a girl wants to come back to my place. 

And then I said yes to sex, even though I felt like nobody would ever want me again, love me again, or maybe even that I was cheating on my wife. 

And then, all of a sudden, when we're having sex, my head clears. I am actually wanted. There is a big wide world out there with amazing other women in it. And it was fun!

And when it was over, I walked her to the door, closed it, and balled my eyes out. Not only with joy, because I realized that there was hope for happiness, but sorrow, because I finally let my wife go. 

And now, my only regret in the whole situation was not dumping her first when she started being mean and gas lighting. 

There is a whole big wide world out there, man. Filled with smart, beautiful, hot, and faithful women. Who would love a chance with you.

Why deny them - and your own happiness - for this woman?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## mrwalters

yea. I have to agree with many of you.
If this didn't happen to me i would be saying the same exact things.
But because it happened to me I had my head screwed up from it. It just came out of nowhere.
It was like one day my world turned upside down and I was knocked off my feet. Ever since then I have been pretty weak.
you are right about me putting the line in the letter about not making her talk about things. That is something i would not accept in any new relationship and i wouldnt ever accept in my marriage with her in the past.
She did steal my balls...


----------



## Marduk

mrwalters said:


> yea. I have to agree with many of you.
> If this didn't happen to me i would be saying the same exact things.
> But because it happened to me I had my head screwed up from it. It just came out of nowhere.
> It was like one day my world turned upside down and I was knocked off my feet. Ever since then I have been pretty weak.
> you are right about me putting the line in the letter about not making her talk about things. That is something i would not accept in any new relationship and i wouldnt ever accept in my marriage with her in the past.
> She did steal my balls...


No more letters.

No more phone calls.

If she reaches out to you, ignore it, or be distant. 

Rejoin the human race. Be open to life. Let her go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky

It's good to see that you understand that. Now what are you going to do about it? Talk is cheap.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## MarriedDude

mrwalters said:


> yea. I have to agree with many of you.
> If this didn't happen to me i would be saying the same exact things.
> But because it happened to me I had my head screwed up from it. It just came out of nowhere.
> It was like one day my world turned upside down and I was knocked off my feet. Ever since then I have been pretty weak.
> you are right about me putting the line in the letter about not making her talk about things. That is something i would not accept in any new relationship and i wouldnt ever accept in my marriage with her in the past.
> *She did steal my balls*...


No...you just forgot about them for a while. Pain and Hurt...they can make us do strange things and forget who we are for a minute. 

You're remembering that guy you used to be.

The important thing is...never promise her ANYTHING. Promises are made to those that can reciprocate them. She cannot. Not to mention...you can't promise forgiveness, reconciliation, anything. Because you just don't know what tomorrow will bring, you don't know what she's doing, she doesn't know what you're doing...she's thousands of miles away...I don't know anyone that can see that far.


----------



## ThePheonix

mrwalters said:


> She did steal my balls...


She didn't steal them. They were a gift from you and, as usual when a man gives his ball away, didn't turn out to benefit you. How many times do you have to try your "let me kiss her azz and win her back" method, and get your dyck knocked in the dirt before you realize that ain't working for you my man. Most women are attracted the proverbial silver back gorilla. That ain't appearing to be you Dawg. You want her back? (and who knows why) Start showing interest in other women and ignoring her.


----------



## mrwalters

That's true. She hasn't made any promises to me. She won't tell me what she is planning on doing. 
Everytime she had left CA she felt like she had to let me know. But each time she went back she went silent. 
I do know that she is realizing that it's not what it was cracked up to be. She told me nothing turned out like she thought it would. 
If I focus on her affair I get mad. I have been purposely not thinking about it and working on my life. 
I do want to work it out with her, but I don't know where to begin and I Feel she must make al the moves. 
I have went pretty dark on her. She knows nothing about what is going on in my life other than the letter. 
I know that she is worried I will find someone else. That has not stopped her from doing any of this. Not to toot my horn but I am good looking. I've never had to approach any woman including her, they have always come to me. So jealousy will not deter her affair. 
She did that in spite of me. 
At first I thought she did the affair to hurt me, because if I were to do that to her it would have to be very intentional to hurt her. 
I know that it has more to do with her issues than anything else. She had told me that she thought I didn't love her and that if she left than I would have been fine with it. 
I don't know how true that is, but I think she convinced herself that that was the case anyways. She had to convince herself of a lot of things. 
To be honest if I weren't paralyzed with fear of have no problem contacting her and asking her anything point blank. That has always been my style. I think she knows that my no contact is a defense mechanism.
Like I said. My buddy went through something similar with his wife. They made it through, it took over a year. When it happened to him I thought he was a complete chump. All my friends said the same thing. He trains special forces how to fight so I would never say it to his face. 
In the end they worked it out. Their issues were caused by his abusive words, so I honestly did not blame her and saw it coming when it happened. Though I know he didn't deserve it, I did see the writing on the wall. 
As for my wife, I should have seen it coming too. While I am not to blame for her affair, words were said before hand that opened the door to her hurt. 
If I were to relate to her hurt and place the same kind of pain I am facing now I could very easily having an affair on her and blaming her as she did me. 
So I get it. I don't condone it, I don't agree with it, and I wish she had never done it and I think it is a horrible way to deal with an issue. Very selfish.
And now I am at that place where I am fed up with it. 
She may be getting herself out of it. But I've thought that several times before. Each time the resentment got worse and I shut down that much more. 
Each time I jumped the gun and told her I would take her back. Then she ran that much further.
She has to absolutely know that a life with this guy won't be long term. He can't even take care of his own bills, never married by 40y/o, etc. 
when I showed the picture of him to our mutual friends they all chuckled and said there was no way it was him.
But he did provide what she needed, affection, I lacked giving her that and that is her number one need (I've read about 50lbs in books)
So now I know that affection is her main need, yet I can't give it to her in this situation because it makes me appear weak.
It was easily fixable before the affair, and I had tried so hard to fix it after I found out. But she was planning on leaving and talking to him behind my back for weeks after I found out.
Also in reading I found out that this is exactly how affairs unfold. 
Not too much attention was given to this pet, the pet where I give up entirely.
My buddy said the same thing. He said he gave up completely and gave her papers and she wanted to work it out. He wasnt expecting that. 
But he had waited about 6 months as well before doing so. 
I feel that if I gave my wife papers right after she left it would have proven to her that she was right and I did want her to go.
I'll never know, it's just a thought. 
I want to be sure I don't jump the gun, and that I do it exactly when I need to. I haven't given up yet, but I am so much closer than I ever have been.
The hardest part is the transition. When she was in CA I knew she was having an affair. Now all I know is she is at her parents, and that is honestly harder on me because it gives me hope she is coming out of it. 
I'm not upset I gave her the letter, though I could have worded it differently in some parts. 
My wife had literally chased after me our entire 10 year relationship. And now that this has happened that has turned around. I think pet of the chasing is also what lead up to it. 
So a few of you are right , there were things that led up to it and it is not all one sided she's bad , I'm good, etc
If that were the case it'd be cut and dry and much easier. 
in her previous marriage she was cheated on and her husband got another woman pregnant, that ended their marriage. 
How she fell into the same situation after experiencing that is crazy. I thought she would know better. 

She is quite emotional and driven by it. That is part of what I loved about her. When she was on my side there was no doubt whatsoever about it. The second she started the affair I could tell that shifted. Now I'm on the other side of all of that emotional turmoil.


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## Evinrude58

You spent two hours writing her a letter that basically excuses her for having an affair. 
Then you let her know that you'll take her back whenever.
Then you tell her she can come back and basically you'll rugsweep it all away.

You are listening to absolutely zero advice. We see this from afar. You are neck deep in emotional destruction. You are grieving. You can't think straight.
It sucks. You want to call her so badly.

You are doing nothing but making yourself look like a total wearing to her. Repulsing her.
This is why she's pulling away. I'll bet you text her regularly looking for reassurance. I did.
But if you were smart, you follow advice, ditch her, and move on.
Actually, you're in the ditch. Just forget she exists and move on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Doesn't matter if she's emotional. 

YOUR job is to know your boundary and stick to it: if you won't give him up, I want nothing to do with you.

Therefore, THERE IS NOTHING FURTHER FOR YOU TO DO. 

Not unless SHE contacts you and hands you PROOF that she has quit cheating.


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## Marc878

A lot come here write their stories and do nothing to actually fix it. Pretty much just go where life takes them. 

IMO the ones who come out the best are the ones who get strong, fix their issues, set a course on where they want to go in life and do it. 

But this is your life and no ones going to live it for you so have at it.


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## mrwalters

I haven't been messaging her, never called her since she left, etc. 
she has made all the contact and my replies have been short, late, or not at all. 
I realize there are a few posts that coverage past 6 months, so like a tv series you are all getting this information condensed and all at once. 
I have followed the advice in the books I have read. Mostly following divorce busting advice as best I can. 
I haven't posted here since it all unfolded. And now that the situation has changed some I came back to seek some advice. 
I do get it. Don't be a doormat. Had I been a doormat ever once before in our relationship... After this I have remained pretty strong. Never missed a day of wrk, made good friends, attend seminars weekly, hit the gym daily. Launching a new product, building an app for it, and starting another business. 
My goal is to become the old me that she chases again. However she can't see that when I am silent.
But you are correct, if she thinks she can have me back whenever she will see me as a doormat. 
I did the same to her the first year we dated. I wouldn't commit. It wrecked her internally. It wasn't until she told me she was letting me go did I commit to her and stay. 
Had she given me the ultimatum 6 months before I would have left and not looked back either. 
So I do know that timing is important. 
I'm not dying over here, I got my stuff together. 
I can't Unsend her papers and if I do send them I need to be 100% behind it. 
But y'all have answered and reinforced what I have known myself. Wait for her to try for me. I cannot get for her. I did leave the door open for her. 
I wish I had some perspective from an ex Wayward wife as well. That would serve me well.


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> My goal is to become the old me that she chases again. However she can't see that when I am silent.


Dude, she knows who you are. You don't need to be in front of her to remind her. She knows what the old you looks like, and NOT contacting her, DOING the 180, IS showing her the old you, the confident you.


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## mrwalters

True. She does know what the old me is like. Good point.


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## Marc878

What about you? When is decision time? When are you going to move on?

Did you do any exposure up front????


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## mrwalters

When it happened I told her parents and my mom. I told her best friend and a couple of our mutual friends. 
The people that mattered. 
As far as moving on I'm doing what I can. 
I'm not focusing on dating while I have a married title. That isn't what I want to do. So for now I will focus on my future business, etc. 
I have been going out every night, if just to read at the bookstore or to grab a beer and wings. 
As far as dating that will come after I file. 
I'll feel a whole lot better about a divorce outcome if I don't have to come up with excuses about later on in life to myself. 
Like clockwork she just text me agai asking me how I am. It is increasingly hard to not reply. At most I may reply tomorrow or the next day with a simple one word answer. 
This is such a dumb game.


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## sapientia

You need to knock the fog out of her with truth. Kick her back to her AP. You are better than this.

When she texts, tell her what you truly think. Some suggestions:

You are not the woman I married. She had self-respect and respect for our marriage. She would never cheat.

I don't know who you are. The woman I married would never cheat. I don't know you and I don't respect you.

Leave me alone. I don't want a woman whose self-respect is so low she would cheat.

Etc.

If she cares, she will start to ask what she can to do to fix things. Then you have control. The TAM men who have dealt with R can help you further if that time comes.

Good luck.


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## bandit.45

Waywards crave control. She keeps texting you to see if you answer, and when you do it gives her a little ego injection knowing she can still get to you. As long as you keep responding, she will hover miles away and keep you strung on a long leash. 

You have taught her how to treat you. Time to un-teach her. 

Stop responding. Go dark.


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## sapientia

bandit.45 said:


> Waywards crave control. She keeps texting you to see if you answer, and when you do it gives her a little ego injection knowing she can still get to you. As long as you keep responding, she will hover miles away and keep you strung on a long leash.
> 
> You have taught her how to treat you. Time to un-teach her.
> 
> Stop responding. Go dark.


I agree except he should stop being polite to her. Tell her truly what he thinks of her, then go dark.

Whatever the result, he'll feel better for having told her the truth.


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## mrwalters

True. She is trying to keep meat arms reach. 
I guess it is hard to fathom that she turned into this. It is a lot to learn about how the person I married changed so much. 
I did reply to her before, told her off, etc. 
all it did was push her further away, and again in another week she would text back like I never said anything. 
I'll stop replying to her texts again. 
So far in the past couple of months I've only replied to a couple, and those were last week. 
I have been contemplating blocking her on my phone, but I don't want to stop all calls, etc should she wake up. 
She isn't with her AP at the moment. And before when that happened I allowed her to communicate w me more. 
It just blew up on me and she went back. 
I do feel that this time is different. At least for me. I do know that if she were to go back to CA after all of this, and after that letter than that is all I need to close the door on her. I spelled it out very clearly in the letter. 

But again, if she is to start to call, start to come out of it. It will be tough for me to see it without contact. 
But then again, when I knew something was going on I did everything in my power to get back to her and take care of our relationship. I figure she will have to do the same thing.


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## sapientia

You mean she can't find you if she really wanted to, if you blocked her calls?

She doesn't know where you live, or where you work?

Don't you WANT her to hustle for you, after all she has put you through? You don't think you deserve it? Would you really consider taking her back, with so little effort on her part?

Really, you are making this way too easy for her, and prolonging your own pain. Very kind, but foolish of you.


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## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> When it happened I told her parents and my mom. I told her best friend and a couple of our mutual friends.
> The people that mattered.
> As far as moving on I'm doing what I can.
> I'm not focusing on dating while I have a married title. That isn't what I want to do. So for now I will focus on my future business, etc.
> I have been going out every night, if just to read at the bookstore or to grab a beer and wings.
> As far as dating that will come after I file.
> I'll feel a whole lot better about a divorce outcome if I don't have to come up with excuses about later on in life to myself.
> *Like clockwork she just text me agai askin*g me how I am. It is increasingly hard to not reply. At most I may reply tomorrow or the next day with a simple one word answer.
> This is such a dumb game.


You shouldn't respond, but telling her you are feeling like any husband would whose wife was having an affair with another man. Betrayed and disappointed. Add that you are seeing things more clearly and looking forward to moving forward with your new life without a disloyal spouse.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sapientia

Remember that it is better to be healthy alone than sick with someone else.

Dr. Phil.com - Advice - Moving Forward after Infidelity


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## ThePheonix

mrwalters said:


> It wasn't until she told me she was letting me go did I commit to her and stay.


Now you know what we be tellin you,


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## aine

I agree with JohnA, there is more to this than meets the eye. So in the interests of fairness I went back to look at OPs original post. and here you have some things that have not been taken into consideration. The OP knows he precipitated the destruction of his marriage but will not be open and transparent with that information. His wife made a terrible choice (no excuse) to have an affair, so they are both on the crazy cycle and it is better that they both get off and part ways. Both need much work to become better people and to ensure they do not do this to someone else.


You read the following

""Soon after marrying I had to go out of town for months at a time to make money. We fought often She is a delicate person and I could say some harsh things to her. Looking back I realize how much that affected her.
The last time I was up north working I was having the most miserable time. She came to see me and I treated her like dirt. I was horrible. Soon after she left I started thinking long and hard about myself. I bought books and did some soul searching. She began to no answer her phone, which was not like her at all. She had stopped by to stay in CA for a week on her way home. Didnt answer her phone at all while there.


Her comments
I went from being the most loyal wife to someone that would have an affair. I never meant to hurt you. I still don't want you to be hurting. And I know you are. I am too. I don't know how to forgive you for all of these years. The bad times run like a loop in my head - no worse than that - those memories run a loop through my heart. I feel every word over and over. I see and feel every disappointed look. Every embarrassed look. It was killing me slowly and all I wanted was you to love me.

I cheated. That was terrible to do to you. I am so sorry that I was a coward and didn't tell you first. I needed to feel beautiful and wanted and adored.

I am a shell of the person I used to be. I want to be whole again.

Your recent post
She's not worried about me like that. No physical violence, no threats. No screaming, etc. 
She had come back for a few days to visit and we did spend a day together. It was like old times. She did leave and went back. That's when I ceased all contact. She continued to text for another 2 months straight, and when I wouldn't answer she began to call. Then she left to be with her parents.
From what i heard from others the other guy was a spineless guy, about 100lbs less than me and follows her around like a lost puppy. The opposite of how I was. Before the affair I was the typical alpha male. Strong, muscular, ran my company, etc. The affair has more to do with her shortcomings than mine. She did not have a good income for several years, felt under appreciated, gained weight, etc. HE made her feel good about herself and she ran to him. I get it. before my marriage I had a girlfriend for a long time. Loved her to pieces. Then as things would have it someone else came along and I began dating her. I still was in love with the old GF, but the new girl made me feel good about myself. End of story. It's probably a little bit of the same thing. I had just thought that in marriage that couldn't happen and now I know better"


You obviously emotionally abused her - your own word. (Did this also happen with the first girlfriend?)
She is full of resentment - does not know how to forgive you for your treatment of her which lasted over many years and broke her heart.
She obviously reached breaking point and decided to cause you the same pain. I think she still cares for you but has no guarantee you have changed.
Have you changed - your recent post suggests no, you take no responsibility for anything (her affair is on her but your treatment of her would have caused most women to leave you)
You boast about yourself, being an alpha male, own company, etc and say it was all her shortcomings. You

You still do not see the damage you caused to this woman. In fact you should leave her be, do her a favour and divorce so that you can both move on. The sad reality is she may well get over it and do ok but unless you change those aspects of your character which precipitated this outcome you will do the same thing to the next person.

To all the other indignant posters screaming 'divorce her' I would agree with you that she crossed a line but this is a classic example of a walk away wife who has been emotionally abused. Unfortunately, many of the males among you do not realise that if a woman is so unloved it breaks her completely, and she will reach out for someone or something else. What she did was wrong, she should have just filed for divorce. Men do not have this deep desire to be loved and cherished, respect and sex is more important. OP I hope you will learn from this experience and go and get help for yourself to become a better man.


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## bandit.45

So... You treated her like sh!t and now she's doing the same to you. 

Well then cut off all contact and divorce. The marriage is dead. Maybe you should think about not getting married again until you get into some therapy to understand your anger issues and abusive tendencies. Sounds to me like you are a man who doesn't cope with stress well and you take your frustrations out on others. 

She shouldn't have cheated on you. She should have just divorced you outright. Thanks for wasting my time making me feel bad for you.


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## 2asdf2

Divorce is just a tool.

One can divorce and remarry as many times as one wants.

What is the big deal with filing?

I believe your fear of life is overpowering you.


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## Borntohang

If nothing else, think of the financial aspect. You said. I'm launching a new product line and building an app for it. Plus starting a new business...

Do you live in a community property state? Is she entitled to half of anything acquired during your union?


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## mrwalters

Definitely a lot of viewpoints here. Many ranging from either I am a complete alpha jerk all the way to I am a cuckold. Views on her vary just as widely. 
I'm sure all of your personal experiences play a large factor in all of this. 
I fail to see much of this can be helpful to me. 
I do read between the lines. Others perspectives and what they have gone through paint a picture of what could come. 
And many of you are correct, of course if everything was great in the relationship then this would have never happened. But neither of us can go back in time. All I can do is guide my actions as best I can and use the information I gather to best steer my course in waters I have never been in. 
It feels like I'm talking to a bunch of shipwrecked people yelling back to me that all I can do is expect to crash into the rocks and who's fault it is. 
while this is helpful, it will not guide me through. 
I'd like to hear from some of you who have had success in navigating through these waters. 
I do realize that much is against me, and I do need all the help I can get.


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## 2asdf2

mrwalters said:


> Definitely a lot of viewpoints here. Many ranging from either I am a complete alpha jerk all the way to I am a cuckold. Views on her vary just as widely.
> I'm sure all of your personal experiences play a large factor in all of this.
> I fail to see much of this can be helpful to me.
> I do read between the lines. Others perspectives and what they have gone through paint a picture of what could come.
> And many of you are correct, of course if everything was great in the relationship then this would have never happened. But neither of us can go back in time. All I can do is guide my actions as best I can and use the information I gather to best steer my course in waters I have never been in.
> *It feels like I'm talking to a bunch of shipwrecked people yelling back to me that all I can do is expect to crash into the rocks and who's fault it is.
> while this is helpful, it will not guide me through.*
> I'd like to hear from some of you who have had success in navigating through these waters.
> I do realize that much is against me, and I do need all the help I can get.


Folk have suggested strong decisive action to convey a sense of self assurance and strength.

I suggested filing for divorce as a tool to assert yourself and not be seen as weak.

What do you think of that?


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## mrwalters

As for the financial aspect. In my case I am not concerned about that. We have joint accounts and she has all the passwords to the banks, etc. not one cent was touched and she did move money over to me freely when I needed it. 
So she may be in an affair, but that part of her has not changed. 
The only thing that has changed is she lost a lot of love for me, had someone else show her affection, and then got caught up in a bunch of bad decisions. 
Yes, I do know, it wasn't a mistake. She chose this. 
I also know that what I choose to focus on affects my reality. If I was to think day and night about them having sex, etc. all I would do is be miserable, as I had been. 
I know that this is a long shot, but there is still love between us. 
There is also a ton of resentment and bitterness. On her part her heart was broken by me, and on my part the betrayal by her. 
In any case I have to get past the betrayal, whether I make it w her or not. 
She has to get past the hurt from me, and also past the affair. 
I have pulled back and it has helped me greatly. 
As far as our previous arguments, types of fighting, etc. I got a good handle on it. As crazy as it is, I have went through so much in this affair that all of the other stuff is small in comparison. I have learned a great deal about myself and about marriage.


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> she just text me again asking me how I am. It is increasingly hard to not reply.


You: "Are you ready to prove you are No Contact with OM? If not, I have nothing to say to you."

Rinse and repeat. Send the same response every time she contacts you, if you have to. But it's preferable to just go dark, to show you at least still HAVE some cajones.



> I'm sure all of your personal experiences play a large factor in all of this.


And you would be wrong. My H has never cheated, nor have I. But I've been giving advice for nearly 20 years, and I have seen THOUSANDS of men just like you - scared to death to see your wife's anger, SO sure you have to just be nice nice nice nice nice so that she'll want you again. And guess what? Every single one of those men, in 20 years, who was afraid to anger his wife, who was desperate to get her back, who was acting like you - lost his wife.

The ONLY wayward wives I've seen come back in all that time - and there haven't been many - were married to men who too swift, strong, confident action. Who said 'you don't want me? fine, I'll get better.' And suddenly, he starts looking attractive again, because she suddenly has to start fighting for him again.

So, no, I'm not bitter, I'm not using my own experience, I'm just telling you WHAT WORKS. It's basic psychology. Throw yourself at her, show her you're terrified of losing her, and you look lower than a ****roach. Show her you can live without her, you look attractive.


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> But again, if she is to start to call, start to come out of it. It will be tough for me to see it without contact.


Dude, if she were to ever FINALLY get her head out of her butt, _she would find a way to let you know_. Because that would be her GOAL - to get you back.

Anyway, that is HER job, to find a way. Not yours. You're still shoving yourself in her face, even if she doesn't know it.


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## Acoa

mrwalters said:


> As for the financial aspect. In my case I am not concerned about that. We have joint accounts and she has all the passwords to the banks, etc. not one cent was touched and she did move money over to me freely when I needed it.
> So she may be in an affair, but that part of her has not changed.
> The only thing that has changed is she lost a lot of love for me, had someone else show her affection, and then got caught up in a bunch of bad decisions.
> Yes, I do know, it wasn't a mistake. She chose this.
> I also know that what I choose to focus on affects my reality. If I was to think day and night about them having sex, etc. all I would do is be miserable, as I had been.
> I know that this is a long shot, but there is still love between us.
> There is also a ton of resentment and bitterness. On her part her heart was broken by me, and on my part the betrayal by her.
> In any case I have to get past the betrayal, whether I make it w her or not.
> She has to get past the hurt from me, and also past the affair.
> I have pulled back and it has helped me greatly.
> As far as our previous arguments, types of fighting, etc. I got a good handle on it. As crazy as it is, I have went through so much in this affair that all of the other stuff is small in comparison. I have learned a great deal about myself and about marriage.


You should take a step back and look at the dynamic you are trying to perpetuate in your marriage. It's the "I was wrong, but you were wrong-er" method of balancing power.


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## mrwalters

turnera said:


> You: "Are you ready to prove you are No Contact with OM? If not, I have nothing to say to you."
> 
> Rinse and repeat. Send the same response every time she contacts you, if you have to. But it's preferable to just go dark, to show you at least still HAVE some cajones.
> 
> And you would be wrong. My H has never cheated, nor have I. But I've been giving advice for nearly 20 years, and I have seen THOUSANDS of men just like you - scared to death to see your wife's anger, SO sure you have to just be nice nice nice nice nice so that she'll want you again. And guess what? Every single one of those men, in 20 years, who was afraid to anger his wife, who was desperate to get her back, who was acting like you - lost his wife.
> 
> The ONLY wayward wives I've seen come back in all that time - and there haven't been many - were married to men who too swift, strong, confident action. Who said 'you don't want me? fine, I'll get better.' And suddenly, he starts looking attractive again, because she suddenly has to start fighting for him again.
> 
> So, no, I'm not bitter, I'm not using my own experience, I'm just telling you WHAT WORKS. It's basic psychology. Throw yourself at her, show her you're terrified of losing her, and you look lower than a ****roach. Show her you can live without her, you look attractive.


OK.
This I understand.
I can fully get behind this.
I know I am not going to nice her back. When I first discovered I couldnt believe it. When I confronted her I said we needed to divorce. She broke down and said we could make it through. Then a few days later she began contacting OM again (which I found out later)
Then i began doing everything I could to fix our marriage. Everything seemed fine, but still she wqas in contact with him and then planning on leaving. Looking back on it I don't know how she held it together. We never once lied to each other before this.

After she left I was taken so off guard that i didnt know how to deal with it. It was out of the blue.
She would text me saying she was sad, missed me, didnt know what she was doing, etc. And I would respond by trying to win her back. Did not work. she only wanted me to beg more, nothing was enough.
Then she went to AK to see her parents. I figured she was getting out of the affair. i wrote her a letter telling her I saw a future with us and if she did too. She went back to OM. Then i stopped all my contact with her. When she did text i ignored it, but at times i would get angry and reply back. Especially when she said happy anniversary, I need to be working on marriage, etc.
Then I pretty much went silent until Christmas when she came back. We began talking everyday on the phone. I hung out with her for a day. it was really like old times. Nothing was addressed.
Then when she was leaving I told her how it upset me. She got upset and said "she just wanted to hold onto the feelings she had for me and i was ruining it"
So i do know that she has fallen out of love with me. Even though she wont admit that, she says things like "i still love you like the day we married"
there was a lot of mind games there.
after she left to CA after shristmas I stopped replying to 100% of her texts for 6 weeks. she finally asked to call, and did . we talked for a couple hours. 
Up until a week before that I was hanging out with what would best describe her, girlfriend, who I had met after my wife lift. As great as this girl was she was not someone I could see myself long term with. We broke off all communication in a respectful way and we have nothing but good to say about one another. I did not want to fall into the same affair predicament as my wife had. It was a hard thing to do, but I couldn't ask her to stop seeing someone or talking to him if I was doing the same. That and this girl is sweet, she didn't need to be caught up in this.

My wife had said to me in our conversation that she is going back to AK. She told a mutual friend of ours that it was over between her and OM (by saying they are only friends, etc, so I would have to believe they are still talking)
She told me she never saw a future with him, only me. When she went back to AK I wrote the last letter. 
she responded via text.. that she was hurting so much.

Also, her mom is not doing well. She has something going on medically. She is really close with her family. 
Not one word has been spoken between her family and I about the affair, they are staying out of it.
Her dad was disappointed in her about it, but we are adults and he has seen enough in his life that he probably realizes that there is nothing he can do. I was and am still bitter with her family too. THough they didnt do anything to me other than offer no support. We were very close before this, spent every holiday together. they were my family too.

And now she is updating me via text about her mom. 
I dont know how or if i should reply to it. I have ignored all her texts about her mom before, though I have sent flowers to her mom.
its like i have a rift between them and me, and she is just updating me on it. It feels like hell because I do care for her mom like crazy.

You are right, I have been paralyzed with fear. had this not happened to me I could very easily call her and tell her to stop the sh%t and treat me right. I could very easily ask her what her intentions and plans are.
but instead I have clammed up. Whether she contacts me or not it is all painful. I don't know how to act normal around her anymore. It is the exact opposite of how I was before, very dominant, had most of the power in the relationship.
I'm not sure why she only texts. maybe because she cant face me, maybe because it is too easy to not answer questions that way, maybe because she is still in affair and can't face me about it.
I need to get my power back and am lost on how to proceed. I dont want to just send her separation papers out of no where. I feel like i need to say something about it.


So this is where I am. Lost and paralyzed. 
now with all of this information, 
suggestions on next move and how to proceed


----------



## farsidejunky

Refer to @turnera posts. When she can show she is committed with no contact with the OM, then entertain reconciliation. 

Text that to her once. Then go dark, and stay dark, until she shows you through actions, not words.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

If a bunch of shipwrecked people were yelling at me to watch out for the rocks, I'd believe I would listen, rather than point a finger at them telling them they're a bunch of shipwrecked idiots.
I'm one of the guys who tried just what you're trying---------I'm divorced. What she says and what she is doing is different. SAME with you. You're the epitome of niceing her back.
I'm asking you to stop. By your own admission, when you told her she could come back, she went back to the OM.

Obvious what to do here to get her back, it's not obvious why you want her back.


----------



## 2asdf2

mrwalters said:


> OK.
> This I understand.
> I can fully get behind this.
> I know I am not going to nice her back. When I first discovered I couldnt believe it. When I confronted her I said we needed to divorce. She broke down and said we could make it through. Then a few days later she began contacting OM again (which I found out later)
> Then i began doing everything I could to fix our marriage. Everything seemed fine, but still she wqas in contact with him and then planning on leaving. Looking back on it I don't know how she held it together. We never once lied to each other before this.
> 
> After she left I was taken so off guard that i didnt know how to deal with it. It was out of the blue.
> She would text me saying she was sad, missed me, didnt know what she was doing, etc. And I would respond by trying to win her back. Did not work. she only wanted me to beg more, nothing was enough.
> Then she went to AK to see her parents. I figured she was getting out of the affair. i wrote her a letter telling her I saw a future with us and if she did too. She went back to OM. Then i stopped all my contact with her. When she did text i ignored it, but at times i would get angry and reply back. Especially when she said happy anniversary, I need to be working on marriage, etc.
> Then I pretty much went silent until Christmas when she came back. We began talking everyday on the phone. I hung out with her for a day. it was really like old times. Nothing was addressed.
> Then when she was leaving I told her how it upset me. She got upset and said "she just wanted to hold onto the feelings she had for me and i was ruining it"
> So i do know that she has fallen out of love with me. Even though she wont admit that, she says things like "i still love you like the day we married"
> there was a lot of mind games there.
> after she left to CA after shristmas I stopped replying to 100% of her texts for 6 weeks. she finally asked to call, and did . we talked for a couple hours.
> Up until a week before that I was hanging out with what would best describe her, girlfriend, who I had met after my wife lift. As great as this girl was she was not someone I could see myself long term with. We broke off all communication in a respectful way and we have nothing but good to say about one another. I did not want to fall into the same affair predicament as my wife had. It was a hard thing to do, but I couldn't ask her to stop seeing someone or talking to him if I was doing the same. That and this girl is sweet, she didn't need to be caught up in this.
> 
> My wife had said to me in our conversation that she is going back to AK. She told a mutual friend of ours that it was over between her and OM (by saying they are only friends, etc, so I would have to believe they are still talking)
> She told me she never saw a future with him, only me. When she went back to AK I wrote the last letter.
> she responded via text.. that she was hurting so much.
> 
> Also, her mom is not doing well. She has something going on medically. She is really close with her family.
> Not one word has been spoken between her family and I about the affair, they are staying out of it.
> Her dad was disappointed in her about it, but we are adults and he has seen enough in his life that he probably realizes that there is nothing he can do. I was and am still bitter with her family too. THough they didnt do anything to me other than offer no support. We were very close before this, spent every holiday together. they were my family too.
> 
> And now she is updating me via text about her mom.
> I dont know how or if i should reply to it. I have ignored all her texts about her mom before, though I have sent flowers to her mom.
> its like i have a rift between them and me, and she is just updating me on it. It feels like hell because I do care for her mom like crazy.
> 
> You are right, I have been paralyzed with fear. had this not happened to me I could very easily call her and tell her to stop the sh%t and treat me right. I could very easily ask her what her intentions and plans are.
> but instead I have clammed up. Whether she contacts me or not it is all painful. I don't know how to act normal around her anymore. It is the exact opposite of how I was before, very dominant, had most of the power in the relationship.
> I'm not sure why she only texts. maybe because she cant face me, maybe because it is too easy to not answer questions that way, maybe because she is still in affair and can't face me about it.
> I need to get my power back and am lost on how to proceed. I dont want to just send her separation papers out of no where. I feel like i need to say something about it.
> 
> 
> So this is where I am. Lost and paralyzed.
> now with all of this information,
> suggestions on next move and how to proceed




You are preoccupied with what she is thinking. 

Preoccupy yourself with what you can make her think. 

With the history you have, sending her divorce -not separation- papers is not out of nowhere. It is a natural consequence.

Take strong action. Let her wonder what you are up to. Let her feel that you are strong and determined to put an end to the disrespect.

Can you undertake this recovery on your terms or does it have to be on hers? Her respect for you rides on this.


----------



## mrwalters

Evinrude58 said:


> If a bunch of shipwrecked people were yelling at me to watch out for the rocks, I'd believe I would listen, rather than point a finger at them telling them they're a bunch of shipwrecked idiots.
> I'm one of the guys who tried just what you're trying---------I'm divorced. What she says and what she is doing is different. SAME with you. You're the epitome of niceing her back.
> I'm asking you to stop. By your own admission, when you told her she could come back, she went back to the OM.
> 
> Obvious what to do here to get her back, it's not obvious why you want her back.


OK,
I will let her know. This is should have done since day 1. I'll probably do it by phone call and not text.
Just like the last time i did it. i left her a voicemail and stopped answering all texts. said i would only take calls. in which she only text for 6 weeks.

This is what I had always felt, but after she left it took me off guard and I figured she was already gone, so it was anything I could do to get her back.

As for her parents, I dont want to leave her in that situation having to go through all of that with her mom. How should I proceed with all of that.
Should I answer anything about her mom. One option is to talk to her dad about her mom.
I feel that if i do abandon her in this time she will never forget it or forgive me, but if I was there for her parents somehow then that would be ok.


----------



## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> OK, I will let her know. This is should have done since day 1. I'll probably do it by phone call and not text.
> Just like the last time i did it. i left her a voicemail and stopped answering all texts. said i would only take calls. in which she only text for 6 weeks.


STOP. TALKING. TO. HER. 

Do the 180 and block all contact.



mrwalters said:


> This is what I had always felt, but after she left it took me off guard and I figured she was already gone, so it was anything I could do to get her back.


She checked out a LONG time ago. You never got the memo until she tacked it onto your back with a 6" knife.



mrwalters said:


> As for her parents, I dont want to leave her in that situation having to go through all of that with her mom. How should I proceed with all of that.
> Should I answer anything about her mom. One option is to talk to her dad about her mom.


That's HER problem NOT yours... Do you understand that? Stop giving a fvck if she's is bad spot. She made her bed, let her lay in it. She's not a child. 

STOP RESCUING HER. 



mrwalters said:


> I feel that if i do abandon her in this time she will never forget it or forgive me, but if I was there for her parents somehow then that would be ok.


The more I read this thread the more I want to puke. It's a train wreck but I can't look away. Dude, she left you to go fvck another man and you're all concerned about HER forgiving you?!?

Let's see... she only cares about herself and you only care about her. So who's giving a fvck about you?!? 

Don't you think it's about time you did? I don't even know you and I'm more concerned about your mental health than your POS wife.

Get some professional help please......


----------



## mrwalters

BetrayedDad said:


> That's HER problem NOT yours... Do you understand that? Stop giving a fvck if she's is bad spot. She made her bed, let her lay in it.
> 
> STOP RESCUING HER.
> 
> 
> 
> The more I read this thread the more I want to puke. It's a train wreck but I can't look away. Dude, she left you to go fvck another man and you're all concerned about HER forgiving you?!?
> 
> Let's see... she only cares about herself and you only care about her. So who's giving a fvck about you?!? Don't you think it bout time you did....


I do get it. she abandoned me. But that does not mean that I need to do the same to her parents, etc. 
She did make her own bed, and I am not going to rescue her from it. But I also don't want to kill any chances at reconciliation later when she comes out of it and remembers I wasnt around for her parents either.
If I am supposed to portray this strong person, can't a strong person show support for the parents and also put his foot down about affair.


----------



## 2asdf2

mrwalters said:


> I do get it. she abandoned me. But that does not mean that I need to do the same to her parents, etc.
> She did make her own bed, and I am not going to rescue her from it. *But I also don't want to kill any chances at reconciliation later when she comes out of it and remembers I wasnt around for her parents either.*
> If I am supposed to portray this strong person, can't a strong person show support for the parents and also put his foot down about affair.


You don't express interest in her parents because of what she might think.

You do it because you care about them.

Leave her out of it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> I do get it. she abandoned me. But that does not mean that I need to do the same to her parents, etc.
> She did make her own bed, and I am not going to rescue her from it. But I also don't want to kill any chances at reconciliation later when she comes out of it and remembers I wasnt around for her parents either.
> If I am supposed to portray this strong person, can't a strong person show support for the parents and also put his foot down about affair.


They are NOT YOUR PROBLEM ANYMORE. You don't have a reconciliation right now.

You have nothing but a remorseless coward of a wife who will not accept responsibility for her actions.

SHE needs to do the heavy lifting. What has she given you besides EMPTY words?!?

SHE needs to fight for YOU. She should be on her hands and knees groveling.

SHE needs to convince YOU why she deserves the precious GIFT of a second chance.

If she won't do it then LET HER GO. Accept there is NOTHING to save.


----------



## Acoa

mrwalters said:


> OK,
> As for her parents, I dont want to leave her in that situation having to go through all of that with her mom. How should I proceed with all of that.
> Should I answer anything about her mom. One option is to talk to her dad about her mom.
> I feel that if i do abandon her in this time she will never forget it or forgive me, but if I was there for her parents somehow then that would be ok.


Send her parents some flowers and a farewell card if you need closure. But going NC with her means NC with family eventually. If you are not ready for that step, then try to maintain contact with them directly, not through her, and not about her.


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## mrwalters

2asdf2 said:


> You don't express interest in her parents because of what she might think.
> 
> You do it because you care about them.
> 
> Leave her out of it.


OK. makes sense. This is something i have been doing already. She texts me about her mom. I never reply. But I do send her mom flowers, and text her dad about her mom.
I can do this.


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> So this is where I am. Lost and paralyzed. now with all of this information,
> suggestions on next move and how to proceed


Seriously? You've gotten 8 pages of advice on what to do next. You've failed to follow it. Fine. Your life.

But if you're waiting for advice that will validate your weak, beta response to a wife that has betrayed and left you; that's most likely not going to happen.


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## Marduk

I don't think you're a bad guy. 

I think you're just conflict avoidant, at least with your wife. 

And I think that's central to the whole issue here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrwalters

badmemory said:


> Seriously? You've gotten 8 pages of advice on what to do next. You've failed to follow it. Fine. Your life.
> 
> But if you're waiting for advice that will validate your weak, beta response to a wife that has betrayed and left you; that's most likely not going to happen.


8 pages in the past 24hrs.. and I don't see how i failed to follow by not acting at midnight the first day of starting this thread.
I do take the advice to heart. But this is also the internet. As you can see some of the advice here has been 100% blame me, some 100% blame her. By waiting a couple days for all of this to sink in I guarantee myself that I don't make a rash judgement. I have been living this for the past 6 months, a few more hours will not make or break it.
But you are correct. I have been weak in my response to it. i do see that. It's almost as if I lost all backbone once she began this. I did do the 180 pretty well, and I did do the no contact pretty well.
But I had gotten advice in the beginning to plan A her.. and I thought it meant for me to try really hard to win her back.
I've never been betrayed or cheated on before. She was literally my entire future, my one constant. There are no words to describe how bad it hurt me and my ego. Its like part of me died, only way to describe it.
But that was long enough ago for me to be able to come back from it. It's not that i dont think I can find another amazing woman. But if it is possible, I would like to try to salvage this.
I will put my foot down.
My friend who went through this and came out the other side still married said he kept in contact with his wife. Bringing up that they were married and that she needed to commit to the marriage. Then finally he went no contact for a month and gave her sep. papers when he was finally ready to move on. Thats when she turned around. It took over a year start to end.
I'm almost at that stage. I should have reiterated to my wife that she needed to commit to the marriage.
I want to say that my case is a little different, but I really don't know. Mine did not run off with her soulmate. She admitted the affair to her friends and family.. eventually.
She told me she does not love him, she loves me and only sees me in her future. She regrets this.
i know that a lot of this is just to mind f*ck me in some ways, to keep me holding on.
But just like not all women are the same, not all men are the same. All of my guy friends would have handled it differently and just divorced, all except the one who didnt.
And she is different from any other woman I have met. 

Of course now I do see that she is capable of a very horrible thing, so i don't have her on that pedestal anymore. But honestly, no woman would ever be on that pedestal again. I know they all got some crazy built into them. I just wish I could have helped prevented it by seeing it coming. It was the obvious outcome of our life as it was. Me being away from home extended periods. her low self esteem, etc.
One of my best guy friends had a child with his soon to be fiance. Then years later started cheating on her and got himself into an affair as well. Did not matter who told him he was wrong. It just took time for him to come out of it. They got back together, this was 10 years ago. i asked him about it and to him it was so long ago it doesn't even exist anymore.
So I do know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. But you are all right. She will not run to me if i keep making myself available. And besides the few screw ups with that I have been doing pretty good at being distant. The day she did come to see me I have to say I was running at 100% most attractive option.
I was clean cut, good clothes, good career, lean and muscular, and had about 20 phone calls from friends come through. no fighting, everything went well. That is her last memory of seeing me.
I know that it is up to her to come out of it. I know that it is up to me to set my boundaries and stick with them.
This forum has done a lot for me. A lot of the things I think i say here. Doing that keeps me from saying them to her or making future mistakes.
What may seem obvious to you is not obvious to everyone.


----------



## Be smart

My friend you think to much about others.

First it was your friend,then his wife,now your wife and your mother in law. Now you are talking about your father in law and once more you are back to you friend.

Where is YOU in that story my friend ???

Did your mother and father in law helped you during this or did they suport theirs cheating daughter ?

It is nice to hear that you changed,going to gym,finding new friends and stuff like that,but what about your wife ?

She told you that you need to do all working and changing to save this marriage while she was living with other man,sleeping with him and what else.

You are smarter then this my friend. 

Stay strong


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## mrwalters

So I've read some of the posts from wayward wives.
Thats mine in a nutshell.
She is a cakeeater, and I have not stood up to it. I do see where you are all coming from when you say file for divorce. 
The separation papers are just another way of me trying to hold onto her.
I have a lot to think about.


----------



## weightlifter

>"there is so much to say, we have so much to work on if we chose"<

What do you mean ?WE? Let me correct it.

"there is so much to say, I have so much to work on if you choose"


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## weightlifter

Read the WHOLE threads by BFF and Whyeme then implement after you heal.


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## TDSC60

mrwalters said:


> So I've read some of the posts from wayward wives.
> Thats mine in a nutshell.
> She is a cakeeater, and I have not stood up to it. I do see where you are all coming from when you say file for divorce.
> The separation papers are just another way of me trying to hold onto her.
> I have a lot to think about.


Time and time and time again, BS on this site are told the same thing. You can not "nice" or "love" a WW back to a marriage. It shows you as a weak person not capable of solving a problem on your own.

The only way to save the marriage is to let her know you are willing to end it. Tell her you love her enough to let her go if that makes it easier for you, but you have to show her you will divorce her. Tell her you love her but are not willing to share her with another man. Tell her you will let her go find her happiness since she cannot find that with you. DO NOT SEPARATE unless that is a requirement of the law in your area. File for divorce. Separation is just an excuse to sleep with other people. 

Don't ask her to come back, don't ask her to commit, don't ask her anything. Just present her with divorce papers. Then you can discuss things with her. If she truly loves you, she will show remorse for her behavior and ask for a second chance. If she does not, then you never had a chance to start with.

Remember - false R is far more common than true R. DO NOT believe what she is saying. Make her convince you with actions, not words


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## bandit.45

TDSC60 said:


> Don't ask her to come back, don't ask her to commit, don't ask her anything. Just present her with divorce papers. Then you can discuss things with her. If she truly loves you, she will show remorse for her behavior and ask for a second chance. If she does not, then you never had a chance to start with.


OP, take this and print it out in large font and stick it to your bathroom mirror. Read it over and over until it sinks in.


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> 8 pages in the past 24hrs.. and I don't see how i failed to follow by not acting at midnight the first day of starting this thread.


Mrwalters,

Let me re-state then. You failed to indicate that you intend to follow the consensus of advice you've already been given. And I've been around this board long enough to see a lot of BS's due the same thing. 

Understand that your wife has committed the most egregious of betrayals - she physically left you for the OM, she's not remorseful, and she won't even pretend that she wants to come back to you. Let that sink in for a minute. 

IMHO, there's no sensible option for you other than to get a divorce and move on with your life. Hoping for a true R is a pipe dream at this point. 

I along with all the other posters are trying to get you to see this. Follow the advice you've been given. 

Good luck to you.


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## G.J.

mrwalters
Remember at school when the nice guys never got the girl...ever wonder why guys like me did


----------



## Sports Fan

I will be quite blunt and to the point.

You are plan B.

For 6 months she lived with affair partner, it didn't work out now she figures its back to the stability of Mr Paycheck, and Bills Covered.

You'd be silly to take her back. 

That ship sailed 6 months ago.

But honestly its your life and your decision. 

Wishing you the best in what you decide.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

mrwalters said:


> So this is where I am. Lost and paralyzed.
> now with all of this information,
> suggestions on next move and how to proceed


Yep. Affair limbo. I still remember it vividly. That feeling of waiting in agony for your wife to make the 'right' decision, the one you feel is so obvious you can't fathom why she isn't making it right now so you can get on with the business of reconciliation.

Then you wait another day. Another text. She still doesn't come running back begging for forgiveness and promising to change AND doing the work needed to earn your trust again.

So you wait another day. Because surely the answer is obvious! All you have to do is endure this torture patiently until the 'fog lifts' until she sees that obvious answer and turns back into the woman you thought she was all along.

But the truth is, she isn't that woman. That woman was fake. The woman you are actually married to is capable of doing this to the man she vowed to love and respect. She is hurting you, over and over and over, every day she doesn't make the 'right' decision. But surely a woman who loved you wouldn't do that, right, so obviously she's going to make the 'right' decision any day now. All you have to do is keep enduring, and wonder why she is doing this to you.

The answer is simple. She's doing this to you because you are letting her.

The only way to get out of this limbo is to end it yourself, instead of waiting around for her to make the 'right' decision. Because if she was capable of making the 'right' decision, she would have done it by now.

You have to end the paralysis yourself. She's not going to do it.

You can't control her. You can only control yourself.


----------



## CTPlay

OP.

You have wasted 6 months on the limbo game that most, if not all cheaters, put their betrayed spouses though. 

"But why? She says she's confused, she says she wants to work on it, etc"

Translation. "I am struggling with the decision to breakup with you so I need time. But once I get all the time I need at your expense with sentences of false hope, I am GONE".


Fathom for a moment, that perhaps the very same feelings you have and what you are going through is textbook. We who have come before you have one piece of advice because we are trying to relay to you what we also have learned and gone through. In no way is anyone minimizing your pain even though the short direct advice seems like it.

Don't waste anymore precious time. Get a lawyer, start the proceeding. Don't prolong the inevitable. The vast majority of cases such as yourself end in divorce. Save time and use that time to heal yourself, not drug yourself with the false hope she is hooking you on.

I've been there. I want you to realize that this limbo must be eradicated immediately. Some men go for a year before realization. Don't be those men. 

Get the lawyer. Give yourself options. 

Take away her power of keeping you in limbo for her own purposes.

Reclaim your power by serving her with divorce. 

Transform this affair situation and make it on your terms. Go lawyer. Get your power back. Put her on your terms. 


NOW.


----------



## GusPolinski

@CTPlay, I don't know when you updated your bio but OMG that's hilarious.

Hope you're doing well.


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## CTPlay

Hi @GusPolinski.

Yes, I'm doing well. Bouts of loneliness here and there but God Almighty the clarity. The fog, the limbo, all gone. 

If only there was some magic bullet for betrayed spouses. But only time and doing the right things can only get you to clarity. Maybe I'm biased, maybe I am blind, but all that marriage saving stuff to me is just a way to suck money out, preying upon the most vulnerable. I have nothing to say about those "systems".


And I've had that bio for a while, LOL.


----------



## farsidejunky

Awesome, CT.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Jasel

Damn how did I miss this thread? Found myself cringing over and over again reading through it. Should make this thread a sticky and title it "What NOT To Do When Your Spouse Cheats".


Anyway, OP needs to file for divorce. Which has apparently been said 20 times already along with the reasons why.

Not sure what else there really is to say in this thread unless he does something different than what he's been doing. I can understand some shell shock and inaction for the first few weeks or a couple of months but six??? Plenty of great advice has been given which from what I can tell for the most part has been ignored or argued against. You can lead a horse to water...


----------



## mrwalters

I'm getting the message loud and clear.
I do hear you when you say not to do separation papers, that just's gives a license to cheat, continue on, etc.

I do have the sep papers signed and notarized and ready to send. As far as filing for divorce I won't be in a position to do that right away. I will need to get a lawyer for tht and figure that all out.
I need to give her a call and let her know what I done with the waiting around, that she is free to go and so am I.
I'd like to send her the papers and let her know that it is just a guideline to our divorce so it is not messy, and that is what i am going to do next.

Or do you think that I should just call her and tell her I am done waiting, etc. And then in a week or so file.


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## Pluto2

You do not need to tell her anything.
Just file.
If she really wants to work on the relationship, she will tell you. Actions not words.


----------



## G.J.

Pluto2 said:


> You do not need to tell her anything.
> Just file.
> If she really wants to work on the relationship, she will tell you. Actions not words.


:iagree:


----------



## mrwalters

and I do agree.
i have been very non confrontational about it all. once it happened I was shell shocked and was just waiting for her to come out of it. I went from being normal to being terrified of what she did, what she would do. Each day i thought I was that much closer to her coming out of it, she kept leading me on.
I still do hold onto some hope for her, but my eyes are beginning to open to it all.
I will not be afraid to call her, to answer, or to talk about what i feel about it all and about what i intend on doing.


----------



## Pluto2

but for what purpose
I see two things happening, Either you will get kicked in the gut by her response, or you will be strung along for six more months. Guess its your choice, but she's certainly proven what she wants in the life, at it does not appear to be marriage with you. I'm not trying to be harsh. Just wishing you could avoid further pain


----------



## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> I need to give her a call and let her know


That's the last thing you need to do. Why does she deserve that courtesy? Have her served. She can talk to your attorney.


----------



## 5Creed

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Yep. Affair limbo. I still remember it vividly. That feeling of waiting in agony for your wife to make the 'right' decision, the one you feel is so obvious you can't fathom why she isn't making it right now so you can get on with the business of reconciliation.
> 
> Then you wait another day. Another text. She still doesn't come running back begging for forgiveness and promising to change AND doing the work needed to earn your trust again.
> 
> So you wait another day. Because surely the answer is obvious! All you have to do is endure this torture patiently until the 'fog lifts' until she sees that obvious answer and turns back into the woman you thought she was all along.
> 
> But the truth is, she isn't that woman. That woman was fake. The woman you are actually married to is capable of doing this to the man she vowed to love and respect. She is hurting you, over and over and over, every day she doesn't make the 'right' decision. But surely a woman who loved you wouldn't do that, right, so obviously she's going to make the 'right' decision any day now. All you have to do is keep enduring, and wonder why she is doing this to you.
> 
> The answer is simple. She's doing this to you because you are letting her.
> 
> The only way to get out of this limbo is to end it yourself, instead of waiting around for her to make the 'right' decision. Because if she was capable of making the 'right' decision, she would have done it by now.
> 
> You have to end the paralysis yourself. She's not going to do it.
> 
> You can't control her. You can only control yourself.


This was my life for too long; except replace woman with man. I would hope that every BS that is new here read this and follow it exactly. It should be put in the BS bible.


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## Lostinthought61

Walter i am going to play out a scenario and you will truly have to be honest with yourself here.....let's say she tells you i want to come home and only be with you, she will forget the other man and will be your wife again...she's happy, your happy and things are happy again because as a man you think to yourself on a primal level i won...i won her back. but let project weeks head when things have clam down and your sitting across the table at dinner and your mind starts to wonder with questions and more question, you ask but she holds back, or she gives a little but nothing more...after a while the anger rises, and loathing at some level...she is tarnished, what did she do with him that she has never done with me, will she leave again, how much do i invest, the trust is gone....you watch what she is doing, who is she on the phone for...and on and on and on 

Walter tell that is not what would have happen if she had come back...and she knows that too...this is why we are telling you to move, not because we don't want you happy but just the opposite we actually do want you to succeed in happiness with some one who will not walk away. you want to take partial blame for your marriage great...improve yourself, but at the end of the day you did not cheat, you did not walk away...she is broken and you can't fix her. you need to accept that in order to move on.


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## bandit.45

Don't call her Walter. File for D and have your lawyers do your talking for you. There is absolutely no reason for you to have any contact with her, especially if there are no children in the mix. 

We are urging you to do this for your own good. The more you talk to her the more power you give her over you. Stop it.


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## 2asdf2

mrwalters said:


> and I do agree.
> i have been very non confrontational about it all. once it happened I was shell shocked and was just waiting for her to come out of it. I went from being normal to being terrified of what she did, what she would do. Each day i thought I was that much closer to her coming out of it, she kept leading me on.
> I still do hold onto some hope for her, but my eyes are beginning to open to it all.
> *I will not be afraid to call her, to answer, or to talk about what i feel about it all and about what i intend on doing.*


What are you thinking?

You sent her a letter with all your thoughts, anxieties, fears, hopes, etc. already.

Strong men act. If there is fallout, they deal with that then.

Do your deal. You can do it.

Don't send separation papers. At this point with her history, that is a weak move. You need to hit decisively.

Wait until you can file divorce papers, then do it.

If she has a problem with that, she'll let you know I am sure.

You need to be ready to act decisively on any response from her.

I see your eyes are beginning to open. Keep opening them to the max!


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## bandit.45

This is what your WW should see....


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## G.J.

Is that J.W. or you Bandit


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## bandit.45

G.J. said:


> Is that J.W. or you Bandit


Not me. I walk normally. :laugh:


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## 2asdf2

Mr. W:

How are you bearing up?


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## Evinrude58

opuss said:


> Why would he call her Walter?


Before you get banned, I'll admit I laughed at this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TX-SC

Well, it's easy to be an arm chair quarterback, but it seems like you really need to start working on your self esteem issues. I know you love her, but you need to love yourself too. Have some self respect and see her betrayal for what it is. Move on, serve the divorce papers, and find someone new. You guys are already separated, so don't even worry about a separation agreement.


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## mrwalters

I do see what everyone is saying about the separation papers not meaning anything. In fact it will be just a license to continue on. 
After reading over and over again y'all saying the same thing. That I need to not be afraid of her or afraid to lose the marriage. 
Last week I finally got the nerve. I told her we needed to talk about some serious issues. 
She of course said "what's wrong"
And sent me a picture of her. 
Typical response. Said I hope you are having a good day, etc. 
to recap a 2hr conversation into the smallest bits:
when we did talk I told her I wasn't playing second fiddle in our marriage.
That if she wanted to date or be single that I was fine with it and encouraged her to be happy. But not to disrespect me any more and if she wanted to be single than we need to be single. That I was fed up with her BS. She went on to tell me how hurt she was, etc. she has never said te word divorce and anytime I bring it up she avoids it like the plague. 
from the sound of it I think she is planning on staying in AK. She is living with her parents now. 
Attending church, etc. 
Before when she was in CA with him I was so heartbroken all I could concentrate on was her affair. Now that has switched over to anger which I am doing my very best to control. 
We do share a phone bill. She still talks to him everyday. I don't tell her I know. 
She is also texting her ex BF that lives up there constantly. 
Which doesn't suprise me now at this point. 
I know she can't be by herself without having someone after her. I never saw that character flaw in her. 
Now I know this is dumb to say, but I figure she is getting out of her current affair by talking to ex BF.
It would t suprise me either way if she was using him to feel better about herself and moving on from her affair slowly. It also wouldn't suprise me if she ended up hooking up w ex BF. There is no bad stigma associated with him and the family liked him. 
Part of me wants to call her out on her Bs and let her know I know she is constantly texting him. But I think it's best I keep that under my hat. 
When we do speak she is more transparent now. Though I know that everything she says can just as easily be a half truth or omission of facts. 
I came right out and asked her whether she plans on going back to CA. She said she wasn't. 
So that affair is either dying or she is omitting truth. 
All of y'all said a bunch of things that I have been thinking long and hard on. 
Now my goal is still saving the marriage, but I also do see that if it doesn't work out then I will be much better off not being cheated on again. 
My willpower and follow through has gotten me great results in life. It can also be to my detriment in this situation but I am determined to see it through until the bitter end. 
I do want to say that I'm not sitting around crying or upset. I just have a goal in my mind and I am doing my best to rudder towards it. 
I have seriously considered sending divorce papers and I have not ruled that out at all. 
I had mentioned my good friend that went through this. Everyone, including me told him to divorce the wh*re. He hung in there. Did his own 180 and reiterated that he wasn't going to be second to anything in his marriage. 
They worked it out and now some time later they are doing great and having their first child together. 
Now I know that is just one outcome , but it was his goal to stick it out until he couldn't any longer. 
As weird as it is, I got used to her being in CA. I could hate what she was doing and blame anything on her. 
Now she is out of CA that feeling is gone and new emotions have come out. 
I do see her as someone who is scared and making selfish choices. She can't be alone. Not at all the person I thought she was, and yet I can see how it was always there in her just hidden under the surface, she just had me to cling to. 
She told my friend she wants me to fight for her and chase after her. I figure it is a result of her constantly chasing after me our entire relationship. 
That wouldn't be an issue if the situation was different, but it would be a weak move on my part. 
A lot of things are at odds because her emotional needs I cannot fulfill at the time. Not without being seen as weak, and I know women respond to strength. 
Now not to toot my own horn, but just so you all don't see me as some small nerd who is chasing after a girl out of his league. That's not the case nor was it ever.
I did tell her in our conversation that what she did took me by suprise and I was temporarily knocked off my feet by it. That I couldn't comprehend what had happened and so I panicked. But I'm not some loser to disrespect and I deserve better than what she had done. 

In every case this other guy and her ex BF pale by comparison. They are both chasing after her and she wants that attention. I'm not going to be the third chasing after her as that will just feed her ego. Her ego is what was severely bruised in our relationship and is what I believe led up to a lot of this coming out in her. 
So what she needs is at odds with what I can give her and still be seen as the most attractive option. 
Had the affair not happened then the part of us that would have worked this out wouldn't have been so severely damaged. I figure she doesn't want to give me what I need because she is scared of losing herself in our relationship. I can't give her what she needs because I am not willing to compete for her. 
Something has to give or change and I am at a loss on how to prepare for that other than to keep being the most attractive option. This doesn't hurt me because it keeps me in the gym most days of the week, keeps me fighting hard to make more money, keeps me out and meeting people, etc. 
The thing I absolutely want to avoid is a false recovery as that destroys so much more than anything else.
I think the hardest part is wondering how to handle this transition in her situation. 
Part of me wants to slowly open the door for her to communicate with me so we can begin talking again. 
Part of me is worried that if I do she will take it as a sign that I am waiting around for her and the part of her that fed her ego into the affair will continue on, thus killing our chances at working it out. 
Tomorrow I head out in the boat for a day cruise w friends. I have been keeping 100% of Facebook. In a week I go to Vegas with some other friends for pet of a week. 
The old me would have posted all of this on social media but I have been lying low so she doesn't see my life without asking about it. 
So this is where I am at.


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## ConanHub

She wants a little ***** to beg and pant after her while she tries out every swinging **** she can sit on?

Be my guest pal...

Your determination would be better spent on a deserving woman.

Why are you pouring effort into a committed ****?
You actually want to reproduce with this lizard?

Try dating humans. Better results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Sounds good. The only thing I'd change is to absolutely post what you're up to on FB. The one thing most likely to get a wife to want her husband back is seeing him enjoying life without her. Especially if she sees some women in the pictures who might happen to have desires for her husband. Note I am NOT telling you to come on to other women; but if she sees pictures of you on FB at an event that has women there...so much the better.


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## mrwalters

I do agree with you about FB. After all
Of this happened I was living on FB trying to keep up appearances. Unfortunately it made me stalk her FB and it ruled my life checking in on her. 
She knows I stay off FB, which is how she communicated with me in a round about way. 
Whenever I posted I was going out she would message me. Get jealous of any pictures I was tagged in and would say so and so is pretty. Etc. 
So I do know she got super jealous of any girl that was around me. 
She even went as far as calling me and was pissed that I was taking dance classes because I would be dancing w girls, all the while she was in CA living with him. 
So I do know jealousy works. However I did tell her that someone was interested in dating me. She knows who the girl is, successful, incredibly attractive, and younger. That did not deter her from leaving again to go to CA even though she knew that would mean that I would be dating that girl. 
so even though she was jealous, it did not stop her affair. 
I got More success out of no contact with her. 
My plan is to mention to her when we do talk in a non chalant manner that I have been out doing stuff, Vegas, etc. without posting it to FB so it activates her interests more. 
I'm afraid if I go on FB that it will be a battle of who can post more about what they are doing and whose life is better. As of now she knows I do not look at FB so if she wants to talk to me than she has to tel me directly. 
Once the FB barrier is breached it will be a whole can of worms that I will have to deal with, and I don't want to get back into the bad place where I stalked her online hoping to see what she was up to. 
I still want to show her my best side, and I'm at a loss as how to do that yet, but FB has to be out of the picture for now. 
Suggestions?


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## tech-novelist

You want suggestions?

Ok, here's mine.

Get a divorce as soon as possible.

You're welcome!


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## whitewolf

The last sentence in one of your recent post was, "So this is where I am at." Young sir, you are at the same place you were at when you started this thread. Your words are a little different but the meanings are the same. You are in FL, she is in AK, now she has TWO men she is talking to. She is having EA's and PA's right and left and you are still sitting there and doing nothing constructive. She still has ALL the power and what do you have? She still has you hooked like a trout on a line and playing with you. I wish you well.


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## mrwalters

A divorce as soon as possible.
I agree that it would end the games, etc. 
I don't think it would bring closure any faster or answer anything other than to legally put an end to our marriage that is already hurt by an affair, etc

It won't make me sleep any better at night or change what it is that I am doing on a daily basis. Other than I can go out with someone else and feel morally justified, something I could do now if I just changed my views slightly. 

I know if I served her with papers that it would force her to make a decision. If she loves me and is not in love with me than that decision will be easy for her to justify. 
If I continue being the best I can be and she is reattracted to the point where her emotions tip then I won't have to do anything. She'll run towards me like before. 
If she ends up with someone else and I continue my course then she will have that relationship to compare to all that I am and all that I was. That will sit well with me knowing that I will be the one who got away. 
I do appreciate the advice, but that is advice on how to get a divorce not advice on how to work towards reconciliation.


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## becareful

mrwalters,

Your wife is not remorseful at all and definitely do NOT deserve a second - or rather a third - chance. She has shown you repeatedly that she has no respect for you, and here you are seemingly looking for anything you can do to justify waiting for her. You are being way too emotional with this situation where the woman has proven that she is unworthy. Don't contact her or communicate with her. Serve her with divorce papers and be done with her. Stop trying to talk yourself into waiting for her to change her mind. The phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater" doesn't apply to everyone, but she has worked hard to earn that title, so give it to her.


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## OldWolf57

Dude, I've been here a while, and I got to say this "you, for all of your boasting, truly are a sad picture of a man."

I'm not saying this to hurt, anger, or to shame you.
I'm just saying how it is.

For six months she lived with another man, threw it in your face and you took it.

A few "I miss you", throw in some "I'm sad", and you feel guilty, then go all out to reassure her she can STILL treat you like dirt.

Let me give you a little clue, "all females have the same parts".
It's the morals, emotions, and actions that makes them different from each other.

Look, when someone shows you who they REALLY are, believe them.
Don't look for reasons just to continue degrading yourself.

She is hooking up with exbf down there now.
Do you really think if they can have access to each other, they wouldn't.
You see she text him, you don't see when they hook up.
Now seriously, what does that say about her.

You want to believe she can't be alone.
NOPE,, she is looking for that exit pos to finally cut you loose.
But you won't see that.

Truthfully, if you are unlucky enough to lure her back, I pray you get snipped first.
I can just see her pulling this again after there's a couple of kids in the mix.

You say your friend's is going well, but then say she is not her. Guess what?? You right.
His wife had one guy.
Your's is on her second.

So, how many more guys does she have to do before you finally believe what she is showing you???


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## Palodyne

(If I continue being the best I can be and she is reattracted to the point where her emotions tip then I won't have to do anything. She'll run towards me like before.) This is you trying to nice her back and do the Pick Me Dance. Neither of those tactics work. She will use them to her advantage and continue on as she is.

(If she ends up with someone else and I continue my course then she will have that relationship to compare to all that I am and all that I was.) This is 100% Pick Me. Look how much better I am/was. She knows while your doing these things, she has you right where she wants you. It just won't work.

The reason no one is giving you advice on how to reconcile with your wife, is because there isn't any. You can't reconcile with a wife living hundreds of miles away and having affairs with two men. It just isn't physically possible. She does not want to reconcile. She also loves that you are paralyzed with fear that she might leave you. It feeds her massive ego, and that is what having affairs is mainly about, feeding the ego.

You have to be willing to lose the marriage to try to save it. That is why the advice has been and still is to file. And your right she may sign and divorce. Or she may try to work it out. But what is the alternative? Are you going to sit there for the next years, paralyzed in fear, watching her every move and hope she may get bored and come home? Man, that's no way to live. But in the end you have to do it your own way. Remember, if there was a way to reconcile in your current situation, we would all be telling you. We offer the best advice we can and hope it helps.


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## TX-SC

Really? Is this serious? Man, just freaking move on with your life. Why would you even WANT her back? She cheated with the CA guy and is about to do so with the ex. Why in the heck would you want her back? You should divorce and find someone to date.


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## mrwalters

I do see what you are saying. 
Up until 2 days ago all I knew was I went silent on her and she finally moved back to AK. 
Now looking over the phone records I see she has been texting her ex bf for months. 
Now I do not know what that means or what they talk about. I do know that he was pining over her for years. He got married and then divorced and is now talking with her. 
They had always remained in some form of contact, but back then it was her always telling him no she didn't want him, etc. this I did see because we had no secrets, everything was an open book then. 
now that she has already cheated and has moved back to her parents I'm sure he is some sort of the backup plan. What part of a backup plan I don't know. Now I'll be the first one to say it if I believed she was going to move onto him. I think she is using him to fulfill her ego because she couldn't get that from me. Maybe in that process of fulfilling her ego she will fall into the same trap with him, I dunno. 
She doesn't want to live with her parents forever, she has to have some sort of strategy and plan. 
It does change a whole lot of things having this extra knowledge of their continued contact after the fact of her affair. 
I do see that there is no reconciliation with her there and her talking to the both of them. She is just feeding her ego. 
If it were anyone else I'd have to say the same things you all are, but because I once knew the other loyal devoted version of her it is hard to let that go, along with the marriage. 
you are correct. She is showing me what she is capable of. 

I wonder how the affair could have triggered so much in her so quickly. 

When I was running a company up north we had employees who got hooked on meth. 
They were great guys, but once they went down that road a lot of things changed about them. They were still essentially the same guys. The main difference in them was they only cared about drugs and how to get more. Eventually everything in their life unraveled around that. It was tough to see happen to people I knew so well. 
Some hit the wall and cleaned back up, some lost everything they had and still couldn't stop. 
Parts of this affair reminds me of some of the experiences I had with those guys. Me me me was the attitude.


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## Evinrude58

You don't know what it means or what they're talking about?
I can tell you---- sex, love, how badly you suck. That's what all women talk about with their exes.

So. I must ask--- are you going to file, and WHEN?
Because if ever there was an example of a woman that has no intentions of coming back, this is it. And if you still want her back, you are not well. This woman is a true example of the low side of humanity.
You could look for women in a hostel and find better. The good news is that you don't have to look in a hostel, and you won't have any trouble finding a good woman, if you'll just look at their past actions and not what they tell you and how they spin the truth.

Your wife needs to be divorced as fast as humanly possible.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABHale

I read a story on another site of a wife the cheated muti times on her husband. He cut her off completely. She could not understand just sex right? They separated then divorced. She never thought he would do that, just like your wife. Last time he posted they were talking again and having lunch every now and then. She did not go and find someone else after the divorce, she pursued him. She changed as a person in the way from her actions to her clothing. They are starting over again because she showed by her own actions she still loved him. Divorce her and then her true self will come out. If she wants to be with you she will try to be, it not she will turn from you.


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## Chaparral

Keep it simple. Send her a message that now she is back with her ex boy friend you see no need to put off the divorce.

No more no less. This is the point where stand up for yourself. The only answer you will accept is she comes home or not.


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## EVG39

Friend you said you were willing to hang on to the bitter end. You have. You just don't see it for some reason. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Evinrude58

Mr Walters,
You do know that most betrayed husbands never WANT to divorce their cheating wives. We know what you're feeling and your thought processes. How you look so hard for just a smidgen of hope that somewhere inside her is still the old love and old person that you knew.

There's all kinds of feel good crap people will spout about how if you do this or that, she would see this or that and come back.
The reality is that people who do what your wife is doing no longer love you, and probably will never love anyone in the way you love her.
She is showing you that she'd rather look anywhere but to you for love.

The ap, the exbf, it will be someone else next. You do t want her back. You want your old life back. I did, still do. But you have to let it go. I know it hurts. But if you will file, get divorced, and move on--- you can be happy again. Almost surely you can be so much happier.
Don't let this continue or you will be stuck as far as healing.
I am not far out of this, so I clearly remember, I still feel matter of fact, how much it hurts. That's why I am so adamant about you filing. I'm 200% sure it's the first step in you getting out of the pain and moving forward. It's a hard thing to do. Do it. Do something.
Good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## OldWolf57

Still making excuses.

You do know they are in the same area. You do know they have a sexual history. You do know she likes sex,
Now, what does that tell you.
They only talk and text when one is too busy to meet.

These words you wrote, are the only true thing you see so far. "once knew."

You won't look at the hard action your friend took. He started the D, his wife caved.
Your employee hit bottom, some came back to themselves.

Maybe, just maybe, if you would pull the plug, it would be enough to shock her into taking action to keep YOU.

If you are going to use that friend and his wife as an example, then do the same damn thing he did, an stop freaking cherry picking.


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## OldWolf57

Mr.W.

Look, I can't remember if this was said, but the woman you KNEW, is gone.
The marriage you had, is gone.
There is no way she can do all this, and still remain the same woman.
There is no way your marriage can remain the same with the damage to you and it.

What you are trying to do, is keep what WAS.
Not happening.

If you can lure her back the two of you will have to build a whole new relationship.
If you talk to your friend, I'm sure he will tell you the same thing I'm saying.
That he is not the same man he was.
That his wife is not the same woman she was.
That their marriage is certainly not the same.
He now knows what she is capable of. That she has in her the ability to inflict the worst pain he ever had, and totally ignore what he is going thru.
She now know that he won't allow her that freedom any more. That he will jet her butt before she can do it again.

Maybe you are trying to wait a year as he did, but look at what you have,,, NOTHING !!
His wife was close by.
Your's is not.
You can't look in her eyes and see her lies. You don't even have the luxury of even meeting for lunch.
What you have is a monks life, while she is living it up.
Because as you now know, she has been talking to exbf for months.

You say you got it all over them.
Ha !!!! Nope, you look the same as them to her. Except just maybe the ex is now fwb, while you and Ca. are not.

Yeah she may come back, but the way you are going about this, it will be on her terms.
Why ??? Because you won't dish out consequences for fear she will leave again.

So ask yourself. What kind of marriage will that be.


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## Evinrude58

The thing is, why are we even talking about luring her back (it's not going to happen, she didn't move for no reason), when we should be talking about totally going dark, detaching, DIVORCING, and moving forward. 

What he is doing is my version of sitting in hell with your ass on fire while staring at an unlocked door.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

If there is contact with an ex it's an ongoing affair. The big problem is you continuing to live in denial. 

You can wait for years and waste your life as her plan B but sooner or later maybe you'll wake up and see what everyone else sees. 

It's your life waste it if you want.


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## Lostinthought61

I have never seen any one Monday morning this own marriage or lack there of than you, speculation, ennuendos, second guessing her tactics have brought her no closer to home nor stopped her from corresponding with those guys or brought you peace of mind. I know you want a marriage, and if things were different with her, but what you are not accepting or choose not to accept is that time is not healing her, she is still mixed up in a relationship with what was one guy seems to have been increased by one, no offense Walter your marriage is crowded and the only one being shown the door is you, I bet if you take the minutes and messages she spends on all you three she spends less time with you then the others.....look I know your struggling, and I deeply sorry for that...but sometimes we need to learn to let go in order to save ourselves....not just your self respect, not just her dignity, for your ability to find closure and move on.


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## mrwalters

All very good advice.

You are correct about my friend. He said he went back and forth a million times in his mind on whether to divorce her or not. But when he stopped all contact and let her know that there was going to be an end did she finally figure it out. Took her 3 months while he was deployed. When he came back he could tell she was all in. 
He also said that she is fundamentally different now. And that the older more aggressive version of himself is gone. 
I know this is true of myself. I am fundamentally different now too. I have empathy for people and their circumstances, whereas before I was black and white. 
And as for the employees on drugs. Nothing stopped them. They had to figure it out for themselves and anything done above and beyond for them made them worse. 
So I do hear you all loud and clear. 
I sent her a picture of the call log and left it at that. 
When she woke up she said that there was nothing going on, that they are friends, what would I like to know. Etc. 
then text that she is headed to church. 
I haven't replied. 
I spent the day on the boat w friends and headed to a tiki bar on an island. Quite happy about all of that! 
I know she is wondering how far I looked into the logs. That's why she so quickly started explaining it all away. 
As far as Fwb, probably not there yet but would certainly be with that going on. I don't say that to put my head in the sand. Now she knows that I know. 
I wrote her a letter that I have not sent yet. I want her to marinade on it for a bit while I remain silent. It's going to be me telling her that I'm blocking all communication w her on my phone, email, etc. 
I was going to email the letter to her parents as well explaining why I am no longer talking w her and them, etc. and also pointing out she is seeing ex BF. That way if she is planning on it she can't come out later and say it all just happened. Perhaps exposing it will squash it, or at least make it where she can't lie to them too while living with them. That way they see her ways as well and why it is I am pulling back from their family. 
I do hear you all when you say file for divorce and why.
Her quick text response made me feel a whole lot better about it, and then I caught myself. Same thing she was doing with AP in the beginning. That's how it all started. She doesn't care enough to truly make changes, only explain away her behavior. 
I do see how filing for divorce will force her to make a decision.
Even if she was just friends w him talking all night, it's still not talking w me, it's still an omission, it's still the same mindset. 

So I know you are all saying to file for divorce. And anything I say otherwise is met w flaming. 
I do have a timeline in my mind for all of this and when I will end it with that. 
I also think that a well planned talk or letter will have much the same effect. Tell her I'm not putting up w it, expose it, tell her I'm blocking and there will be no more contact. Mutual friends to pass important info along. 
Then still have my timeline and should I want I can file or adjust accordingly. 
I know it sounds stupid, but there is forward progress. Before when I pointed out affair she was defensive and I could see her fuming inside. Now when I point it out she is upset and remorseful and cries. However they remain in contact. 
Before she lived with him. Now with parents. 
Now I know, she is starting something else w ex. I know. 
Knowing what I know now when I first found out about her affair I kept it a secret. In her mind she was going To leave and tell her friends and family a different story. When I revealed it to her parents she couldn't deny the facts. 
Had I revealed it to her parents prior to her leaving she wouldn't have had that same mindset thinking she was going to leave and live in some fantasy. It would have been squashed. 
I feel revealing what is happening w her ex will squash her budding dreams of that. It will taint all of it as well to her parents which she holds their opinion above all else. Especially her father. 
It won't be easy to do, and I'm sure he will not be happy with me talking to him about it. But a whole lot hasn't been said that should have. I deserve better treatment than all of this and I know he feels bad about it. But they have taken a sideline. 
I got to tell you, befire I had super high expectations of my women. 
I'd settle for faithful and let the rest fall where it may. 
I'll also begin looking up divorce so I have that in my pocket when I am ready to push that button. 
Have any of you read the book divorce busting. If so what do you think of it. 
And please. Don't flame me for not filing 25 minutes ago. I do hear you all loud and clear.


----------



## mrwalters

ABHale said:


> I read a story on another site of a wife the cheated muti times on her husband. He cut her off completely. She could not understand just sex right? They separated then divorced. She never thought he would do that, just like your wife. Last time he posted they were talking again and having lunch every now and then. She did not go and find someone else after the divorce, she pursued him. She changed as a person in the way from her actions to her clothing. They are starting over again because she showed by her own actions she still loved him. Divorce her and then her true self will come out. If she wants to be with you she will try to be, it not she will turn from you.


Good advice. Thanks for this.


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## mrwalters

Xenote said:


> I have never seen any one Monday morning this own marriage or lack there of than you, speculation, ennuendos, second guessing her tactics have brought her no closer to home nor stopped her from corresponding with those guys or brought you peace of mind. I know you want a marriage, and if things were different with her, but what you are not accepting or choose not to accept is that time is not healing her, she is still mixed up in a relationship with what was one guy seems to have been increased by one, no offense Walter your marriage is crowded and the only one being shown the door is you, I bet if you take the minutes and messages she spends on all you three she spends less time with you then the others.....look I know your struggling, and I deeply sorry for that...but sometimes we need to learn to let go in order to save ourselves....not just your self respect, not just her dignity, for your ability to find closure and move on.


You are correct. She spends less time on me than the other two. Damn.


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## Marc878

Exposure without warning. Let her deal with the fallout alone. You are way behind the eight ball here.

You need to stop rationalizing. There is no way to rationally explain a cheaters actions.

If you've learned nothing you should know by now Nicing her back won't work.

Exposure is your best and maybe only weapon. I suspect you still have not learned this to your detriment.

Look back. How should you have handled this??????


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## Marc878

Writing more letters??? Will be a waste of time. Actions are what speak loudest.


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## mrwalters

Y'all are absolutely right. I did call her. Talked w her. 
She said she is not over her AP and that their relationship is changing. 
I'm going to send divorce papers.


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## MattMatt

mrwalters said:


> Y'all are absolutely right. I did call her. Talked w her.
> She said she is not over her AP and that their relationship is changing.
> I'm going to send divorce papers.


Sad to say, I think this might be a wise course of action.

Though I have heard that my grandparents went through something similar, when my grandmother left him for another man for a while. This was in the early 1930s, I think.

But they worked it out and got back together and were good until he died in the early 1960s.

The marriage was under strain as he had been very badly shellshocked in the First World War. He suffered terribly. He shook so much for several years that he could not even sit down as he would fall off the chair.


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## the guy

mrwalters said:


> Y'all are absolutely right. I did call her. Talked w her.
> She said she is not over her AP and that their relationship is changing.
> I'm going to send divorce papers.


It's not what knocks us down that counts...it's how we get back up that matters.

Take care of this shyt now!


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## the guy

The relationship isn't changing....your old lady is finally being honest!

ya painful...but now you have something to work with and it does give you direction...and the direction is validated!


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## TX-SC

mrwalters said:


> Y'all are absolutely right. I did call her. Talked w her.
> She said she is not over her AP and that their relationship is changing.
> I'm going to send divorce papers.


Good for you! Sorry it comes down to this but surely you can see that this has been coming for some time. You simply need this so you can start to put this mess behind you. On the bright side, you are no longer in limbo. You can now start living again.


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## JWTBL

And for God's sake, separate your phone bills! That was the first thing I did after dday. Spying on the gory details of your soon to be ex is the most exquisite form of torture. You need to move on!!!


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## mrwalters

It's not that I'm completely giving up. But it has come to the point where I need to make a bold move. 
A week after she left she called me up, said she had made a mistake and wanted to leave and come back. 
I caved instantly and then she said I was trying to control her. It was her way to test to see if she had me hooked. 
That was my mistake. I should have handled it differently. 
So I need to handle this differently. 
Now I do know you all said I need to send divorce papers. 
I do not have that ready yet and I don't think it will be fast enough. I do have signed and notarized separation papers that say that this is leading to a divorce. I will send those off tomorrow. 
When she get them and calls I will tell her it is required for the divorce. She won't know the any different. 
It will get me an answer and will buy me time to get the divorce papers ready. 
I don't even know how much that all costs to do. 
If she gets the separation papers and does a complete 180 and becomes transparent than that will be my answer. If she signs them then I know it's one step closer. 
I don't want a divorce. But it will be up to her. If she wants the affair then that's what she will have to do


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## Marc878

Exposure without warning. You should have done this up front. What are you afraid of this? She's already left you. 

Hoping she'll come back will get you nothing. You could never reconcile without consequeces anyway.

Your fear gives her power which you need. Desperately.


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## bandit.45

No one is flaming you. Divorce or don't divorce. It's your life. 

We can only recommend what we know sometimes works, and that is quick decisive action Filing for divorce is not a magic wand that gets your spouse back. Sometimes it works and sometimes it fails. It's a roll of the dice. 

We are less interested in helping you save your marriage as we are helping you save yourself... Your self respect and self worth are what is more important to us here. A marriage is only as valuable as both partners deem it to be. Your WW does not see your marriage as valuable. So you have to value yourself above her right now. Filing for divorce helps you regain some of the control she has taken from you.


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## manfromlamancha

Mr. Walters I hope this is not going to be too brutal:


You sir, have displayed every form of weakness that a man possibly could when it comes to a relationship with a lying, amoral, deceitful, disrespectful wife! That is a given. The challenge here is not to do with getting your wife to stop, or changing her, or having her change her mind or anything like that. The real challenge here is how to get you to grow a spine and strengthen yourself - for the future!


She is busy fvcking other men and enjoying the hell out of it. There is no reason for doing this other than she can and enjoys it.

She has an AP to have some fun with and she is working on breaking him in at the moment (living with him in CA and then moving away to the comfort of her parents home and then teasing him some more). This is not going to change.

She has a pining ex-boyfriend to take your place in pining over her if she ever needs it. And all she has to do is give him some scraps of sex every now and then - and he has his own hell to deal with knowing that she also has an AP.

And there are almost certainly a string of other men that she has had and/or is intending to have.

And in the meantime she texts you, visits with you (and you treat her nice), still has you as a husband financially and for the sake of status, and generally has you at her beck and call.

You are full of words and no actions - you still talk in terms of "not giving up on her but …" - by all means please, please, please GIVE UP ON HER! NOW! You still say that you are in love with her - this is a massive dose of codependence and lack of confidence in your self.

For the millionth time - get a hold of yourself and start repairing yourself before its too late. A small first step is getting her out of your life, getting rid of her - pray that the AP or exBF asks her to marry them - that will make it easier on you. THIS IS OVER! You really need to wake up now - for your own sake!


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## turnera

You should be calling her family today and explaining why you're divorcing their daughter/sister. You clearly want her back, and you never will until she gets some heat for what she's doing. Call them. Today.


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## mrwalters

I will take calling them under consideration. If I do it will be her dad, he is the only one that I speak to.
As far as heat, they are not going to give her any whether I talk to them about it or not. They are staying out of it. i know they like me and miss me. She says they talk about me all the time. I was their favorite.
i know that what she did she is having a hard time living with, but that being said she still is making the decisions she is making.
I did talk to her about the freqeunt texts to her EX BF. She denies that anything is going on between them. I can tell when she is lying when we speak, so i do believe her on that however she is stringing him along too and using him to make herself feel better, thats my guess anyways.
I did send separation papers just a few minutes ago. It's all i had prepared.
I have opened my eyes to what she is doing. i am still hopeful that it can be saved, and it will take her coming out of it and making it in time before i have found someone new.
I am now contemplating my next move. Just when i thought i had my mind made up completely I go back and rethink it.
I do want to convey to her that she is not allowed to string me along. When we spoke yesterday she said she was scared to call me. She is scared to face me in any of this. Now that is not something that I want at all. i don't get off on her pain or sorrow at all and wish like hell that wasnt the case.
When we were married if she was hurting it was my job to console her. now that she is hurting it is tough to keep my boundaries and to force her to take responsibility for it.
I reiterated to her that she can't string me along, that I will not play second fiddle in my marriage. She started crying and hung up and turned off her phone.
My next move is to either go dark 100% on her or to send divorce papers.
I was going to wait until she left to CA to send divorce papers but yall may be right. She may have to see them before she leaves in order to know the consequences of her going back.
My friend who made it through his ordeal said be careful giving ultimatums because i have to carry them out, otherwise I will be seen as weak. Her going back to CA to live with him will be enough for me to say i did enough and let the marriage go. 
Almost everywhere i read it said that it is the betrayed spouse who is the one who finally throws in the towel. I am trying to show her as best as I can that i am not putting up with it. 
I know you all have said I was spineless. That has been true. i have not enforced my boundaries.
My friend who made it said to get his wife back after the affair was a lot like coaxing a deer out of the woods. Ultimatums, anger, fights just set him back at square one.
he also said that he had a verbal commitment from his wife the entire time she was in the affair that she was for the marriage, however it wasnt until much later that her actions matched her words.
Quite possibly the best thing I can do is step back even further and reiterate my boundaries. i will not be anything less than #1 in any relationship.
I'll start researching divorce process.


----------



## bandit.45

You are filing in your own state right? For God's sake don't file in California. You will get hosed.

At this point you need to lose the idea or hope that she is coming back to you. She is not coming back brother. And even if she does, I guarantee that your feelings about her will have changed and you won't want her back. 

Her crying is out of guilt. Not for love for you. She doesn't love you. She probably doesn't know how to love anyone properly. That part of her is defective.


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## Chaparral

She said she was going back to California? I missed that.


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## mrwalters

She didnt say she is going back to California, however that doesnt mean that she is staying with her parents. From what I gather her affair is not working out. She said nothing turned out like she thought it would and that their relationship is changing. She keeps telling people that they are just friends now. Whatever that means.
I did figure her crying is out of guilt. I heard that elsewhere. before i thought it was out of love. It all sounds the same to me.
I will be filing here when I do. There wont be any negative recourse on her part. There are some things about her that have not changed, just the part where she betrayed me part...
I remember when i first went into counseling after this happened. I thought he was going to show me some method to save the marriage, but he was trying to save my sanity, just like all you all are saying.
You are right that part of her is broken. It's the affair that she chose that did it.
When my buddies came around he said that it was like a light switch when it happened, total transparency. I do not have that with mine.
He also put up with his for quite a bit longer than I have, and he said he never went back and forth so many times on any one thing in his life, that by it far was the hardest thing he had ever done and he would never do it again. So I do see where you all are coming from.
It will take the letter the better part of a week to get up there. 
yesterday after the conversation with my wife I hit the wall and just simply couldnt take it anymore. I did leave the conversation in such a way that she knows that I am done with the BS, the affair, and the whole lot of it.


----------



## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> I will take calling them under consideration. If I do it will be her dad, he is the only one that I speak to.
> As far as heat, they are not going to give her any whether I talk to them about it or not. They are staying out of it. i know they like me and miss me. She says they talk about me all the time. I was their favorite.
> 
> _Where do you think she got her bad character? They are not going to say a thing to chastise her. They will coddle her just like they always have. You, they couldn't really care less about. _
> 
> i know that what she did she is having a hard time living with, but that being said she still is making the decisions she is making.
> I did talk to her about the freqeunt texts to her EX BF. She denies that anything is going on between them. I can tell when she is lying when we speak, so i do believe her on that however she is stringing him along too and using him to make herself feel better, thats my guess anyways.
> _
> Don't tell me, it's when her lips are moving? _
> _You're guessing wrong--- if they're physically able, they're having sex. She's already cheated, she won't care with how many._
> 
> I did send separation papers just a few minutes ago. It's all i had prepared.
> I have opened my eyes to what she is doing. i am still hopeful that it can be saved, and it will take her coming out of it and making it in time before i have found someone new.
> I am now contemplating my next move. Just when i thought i had my mind made up completely I go back and rethink it.
> I do want to convey to her that she is not allowed to string me along. When we spoke yesterday she said she was scared to call me. She is scared to face me in any of this. Now that is not something that I want at all. i don't get off on her pain or sorrow at all and wish like hell that wasnt the case.
> When we were married if she was hurting it was my job to console her. now that she is hurting it is tough to keep my boundaries and to force her to take responsibility for it.
> I reiterated to her that she can't string me along, that I will not play second fiddle in my marriage. She started crying and hung up and turned off her phone.
> 
> _Yep, because she knows darn well that she is doing exactly this and doesn't like being called on it, and has no intention of not doing it. Guilt tears, as astutely observed by other posters. NOT, remorseful tears._
> 
> My next move is to either go dark 100% on her or to send divorce papers.
> I was going to wait until she left to CA to send divorce papers but yall may be right. She may have to see them before she leaves in order to know the consequences of her going back.
> My friend who made it through his ordeal said be careful giving ultimatums because i have to carry them out, otherwise I will be seen as weak. Her going back to CA to live with him will be enough for me to say i did enough and let the marriage go.
> Almost everywhere i read it said that it is the betrayed spouse who is the one who finally throws in the towel.
> *
> Huh? Where did you read this? The Wayward spouse is the one who threw in the towel when they cheated. Your marriage was over when the cheating occurred. You've got to get your head around this. You are trying to RECONCILE a marriage. It's over already, long since over for her. And you CANNOT reconcile with this woman in the state she's in. I know you want her, but you're like a kid wanting a second green apple while being told it's going to make his belly hurt. You SHOULDN'T want her, and wouldn't, if it weren't for your weakened emotional state. Think about it, there's no way in hell you'd continue dating a woman doing this to you. But you have to accept it now because????? NO REASON IS THAT GOOD!
> Let her go, and if she comes begging you back, see then if you want to go that screwed up route. I'm betting in a year you wouldn't even consider it. *
> 
> I am trying to show her as best as I can that i am not putting up with it.
> I know you all have said I was spineless. That has been true. i have not enforced my boundaries.
> 
> *We've all been there, partner. You just would be so much better off if you could let go of the reins and let a trusted friend like you have guide you through this and do exactly as he says. Because you're weak emotionally right now. You know it. But you're not doing anything about it because it's so darned hard. If you don't, you're going to be in pain for years over this.*
> 
> My friend who made it said to get his wife back after the affair was a lot like coaxing a deer out of the woods. Ultimatums, anger, fights just set him back at square one.
> 
> *I disagree so totally on the coaxing part, but your friend was apparently successful so whatever.*
> 
> he also said that he had a verbal commitment from his wife the entire time she was in the affair that she was for the marriage, however it wasnt until much later that her actions matched her words.
> Quite possibly the best thing I can do is step back even further and reiterate my boundaries. i will not be anything less than #1 in any relationship.
> I'll start researching divorce process.


JUst some thoughts of mine that you can chew on, or not. 
GOod luck, sir. I think you should have filed long ago. Every time she calls you are offering yourself to her. She just hangs up and goes and texts her bf or ex bf. 
I'm thinking you are too late. But I also think that's a good thing-- she's worthless as a wife and person anyway. You need to file now for self preservation.

But you won't. You'll drag it out. She's probably run up all kinds of debt in this last 7 months that you'll be responsible for. You'll be paying her to **** these other men.
Sorry...


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## Marduk

You need to learn a single word, man.

That word is "No."

"I'm scared to call you."

Answer: "No."

"I want to work things out."

Answer: "No."

"I'm not sure what I'm going to do."

Answer: "No."

"You're controlling me!"

Answer: "No."

Until you can do that, stop responding to her at all.


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## Marc878

I hate to tell you this but cheaters lie a lot. Your procrastination in this borders legendary.

If she is in any contact the affair is ongoing. The affair is on her 100%. How you've set back and done basically nothing is on you. It's bad when a wife loses all respect.

She's crying because her fantasy is maybe coming apart. Only you can end that but you continue to eagerly lap up breadcrumbs thinking it's going to get better by doing what???

In reality she has more contact with everyone than you.


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## ABHale

I would suggest not talking to her, send the divorce papers to her as soon as possible. Tell her through a text that all communication goes through your lawyer now. If she is heading back to CA I would believe she has already checked out man, sorry..


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## Jasel

Why on Earth are you talking to her so much? Stop calling her, stop responding to her texts, stop telling her about your hurt fee fees, burn any letters after you write them, block her on facebook, stop trying to psychoanalyze everything she says, texts, or posts on facebook, stop giving her ultimatums, stop telling her what you plan on doing before you do it, serve her with divorce papers and move on from this woman who is STILL lying to you about ****ing other guys. 

Are you waiting for the next solar eclipse as a sign to move on with your life? Granted it's your life and your marriage and no one can tell you how to live it. But you are wasting time dragging this out like you have. 

And even if there's a chance your wife would come back, NOTHING you have done would inspire your wife to do so. Besides that she's a cheater, a liar, and a flake. 

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## TX-SC

It seems to me that you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. In the one instance, you say you "won't be Plan B" for her, then in the other you say you are going to keep waiting and keep hoping she "changes her mind." Dude, that's what Plan B is!!! Her mind is set that she wants to be with CA dude. Or, at least it was until they MAYBE broke up. She at no point seems to indicate she is interested in coming back to you, UNLESS she gets lonely and things don't work out with CA guy. That makes you Plan B.

Really, you need to wake up now. You have sent her the separation papers. Go see a lawyer, figure out the best course for divorce, and send the papers. If she truly wants you, she will come crying back to you at that time. Do not call her parents and freaking stop talking to her so much on the phone. Figure out the 180 and live it. Time to move on and see what life has to offer. You said you are a good looking, fit guy. Great! You shouldn't have any issues in FL finding someone to spend your time with.


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## mrwalters

What got me was her telling me things, the breadcrumbs that she was coming out of it. It wasnt until a few days ago when i straight out asked her her intentions and what was happening. It was when she was telling me that i wouldnt trust her because she had lied in the past, and then I caught her on another lie she was telling me. I called her out on trying to lead me on. She remained silent.
That is when it finally broke for me.
I have been doing the 180 up until when she went to AK. I began speaking to her parents, hoping that she was well out of her affair. I jumped too early again. i was really hoping that it was over.
I have her separating the phone bill now and removing herself off my accounts. I had kept her on initially because I thought she was coming back. Now that i have my eyes opened further I dont see any issue with removing her from everything. If someday we do work it out then at that time we can just as easily put everything back together, but it is silly to have her on any joint accounts while this is happening.
Had she just told me it was over and left I could have accepted that. it was the constant texts trying to keep me in waiting. I really don' know why she did that and I never will. 
But i do agree.. I needed to do this all long time ago. When i deleted her pics off my FB long ago she got upset with me and asked me why. She had hidden all pictures of me and our marital status to everyone but me. On my page it all seemed like nothing changed. it wasnt until a friend pointed out that her status was not shown and all pics of me were gone to him and everyone else. It took a lot of work to do all of that. Very manipulative.
Now i do still stand by that she was a good person before all of this. i have read other places where when people get in affairs they quite literally become the worst versions of themselves to their spouse. That includes my froend as well who went through it. His ran up a bunch of debt and would lie through her teeth. When they did finally work it all out she fell back into place again. now i don't pretend to understand the psychology of it, but it seems like they all read from the same affair book or something.
it took our last conversation for me to begin to let go of her finally. Before it was all talk, and at most silence on my part. But she always knew I was waiting around I'm sure. Now that has changed.
As far as meeting other women I don't think that will be an issue. I started speaking to the girl i sidelined during this. We hadnt talked in a month. I don't plan on dating her, but a pretty female companion to go out and do things with occasionally will be good again. 
It's going to be scary starting over again. before the affair I had a lot of great things. A career that afforded me 6 months off a year paid salary, nice toys, house on the water, and a beautiful wife.
I threw away that job to come back and try to save my marriage, moved, and sold most all of my toys/boat/motorcycle along with a new career that would keep me close to home.

It was a whole lot of things to have change all at once.

But the material possessions come and go, I can always buy the stuff back someday. The marriage was by far my number one priority, and i wasnt about to give it up, especially when i saw so many hints she was coming back.
I have to say, the only time she started to act like she was straightening up was when I showed her I wasnt speaking to her anymore, was going out, etc.


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## Evinrude58

In your case, I recommend spending some time with some attractive ladies. Build your self esteem, self respect, and show yourself the positive side of being single. In the age of the internet, one doesn't have to work very hard to have all the dates he wants. And the dating tables seem to have shifted toward men in later life. You are wasting a lot of your life pining for this woman. I hope you truly have turned the corner and seen clearly that she isn't coming back until you move on. When she sees you moving on, I'd almost bet she comes crawling back. If she is the best you can do.......
Good luck


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## EVG39

Know why she keeps dribbling you these bread crumbs.? She keeps you dangling because she gets off on the power she has to pull your puppet strings. She likes making you hop around like a marionette, Think about how manipulative it was the way she handled you over her Facebook profile ? She knew all the time she was making a fool out of you in front of your friends.
And know what? She enjoyed it!
Chew on that at 3:00 in the morning.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> When we spoke yesterday she said she was scared to call me. She is scared to face me in any of this.


She's not scared of you, she's scared of seeing her own reflection in your eyes. She's scared of the fact that you represent accountability for her actions. And she's scared that she won't be able to put it off for much longer, because you're actually starting to stand up for yourself, so she needs to turn up the guilt.

Be prepared, because when the guilt doesn't work she may turn to charm to get you to rugsweep this whole thing. Do you think you're in a strong enough place to resist that?


----------



## truster

Evinrude58 said:


> And you CANNOT reconcile with this woman in the state she's in.


California, in this case..


----------



## mrwalters

truster said:


> She's not scared of you, she's scared of seeing her own reflection in your eyes. She's scared of the fact that you represent accountability for her actions. And she's scared that she won't be able to put it off for much longer, because you're actually starting to stand up for yourself, so she needs to turn up the guilt.
> 
> Be prepared, because when the guilt doesn't work she may turn to charm to get you to rugsweep this whole thing. Do you think you're in a strong enough place to resist that?


This out of many of the things that have been said really makes a lot of sense. I think you got this right.


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## badmemory

OP,

You have conditioned your wife for so long, to believe you'll be there waiting for her; I'm sure she won't be easily convinced otherwise.

Every time you communicate with her; every day she doesn't get served with divorce papers - it just enforces that belief that you are her good ole reliable backup plan. She probably thinks she could wait until you had a pen in your hand, signing the final papers and she could talk you in to letting her come back. 

And I also truly believe that if you did allow her back, she would have no expectations or intention of accepting any consequences for what she's done. 

*MOVE. ON. WITH. YOUR. LIFE.* 

*STOP. TALKING. TO. HER. * 

*EXPEDITE. THE. DIVORCE.* 

Where is your anger?


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## bandit.45

Skip the separation agreement and file a divorce petition. She doesn't have to see it before she leaves. You can publish it in the newspaper and that will be enough notice to satisfy most courts.


----------



## mrwalters

truster said:


> mrwalters said:
> 
> 
> 
> When we spoke yesterday she said she was scared to call me. She is scared to face me in any of this.
> 
> 
> 
> She's not scared of you, she's scared of seeing her own reflection in your eyes. She's scared of the fact that you represent accountability for her actions. And she's scared that she won't be able to put it off for much longer, because you're actually starting to stand up for yourself, so she needs to turn up the guilt.
> 
> Be prepared, because when the guilt doesn't work she may turn to charm to get you to rugsweep this whole thing. Do you think you're in a strong enough place to resist that?
Click to expand...

After reading this a lot of what she is doing makes sense. 
She just text me telling me she is crying because I deleted her off FB and she is separating the bank accounts like I asked . That she is sad that this is how it is now and she is crying in public and she just can't have me say anything bad to her. 


As far as my anger I do have a ton of it. I also have learned to control it. Mostly because of my size I never had to wave it around to get attention. 

I still intend on saving the marriage. Not that it is up to me to save it alone. But I also know that I can easily destroy whatever is left of it by my actions. So maybe I should say that I don't intend on purposely destroying it. The saving it will take her getting out of the affair and then us working on it if we choose. 
So I am careful in my approach. I'm not the one to fly off the handle and react anymore. Whenever I have done that in the past it has yielded little results and almost always brought out regret. 
After she text me my typical response is nothing. I would leave it at that. Instead this time I just told her I am not doing or saying anything bad to her. That all of this is a result of cheating and an ongoing affair during a marriage. 

But I do take what you have said about me conditioning her to not have consequences. Anytime before when I wouldn't communicate with her she would eventually throw out something like she was rethinking everything and she regretted it all. I would lap it up and then she would go right back to affair land. 
So you are absolutely correct. She thinks she can push and push and I will not take a stand. 
I'm working on changing that now. 
And as far as all images y'all speak of. It makes me wonder what you get out of saying some of it. It's not like I don't know she was/is sleeping with another man. That was probably the hardest thing to wrap my head around when I first found out. I was shell shocked for about a month trying to process how that could happen. But in my past I have had a girlfriend who misrepresented her past. One day I came across some email and it completely changed my view of her. I spent two years being angry and jealous about something that happened before we met. 
Then after I allowed it to destroy the best parts of my relationship with her I came across a technique of thought stopping. Yes it did happen. It is the past. She did lie. But I choose what I allow myself to focus on. 
And I have applied that to parts of this affair as well. Unfortunately probably too well. What she did was beyond what I could stomach. 
Looks like I needed to be able to thought stop and also take decisive steps when action was warranted. 
I'm learning.


----------



## turnera

mrwalters said:


> I spent two years being angry and jealous about something that happened before we met.


:surprise:


----------



## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> After reading this a lot of what she is doing makes sense.
> *She just text me telling me she is crying because I deleted her off FB and she is separating the bank accounts like I asked . That she is sad that this is how it is now and she is crying in public and she just can't have me say anything bad to her. *
> 
> 
> As far as my anger I do have a ton of it. I also have learned to control it. Mostly because of my size I never had to wave it around to get attention.
> 
> I still intend on saving the marriage. Not that it is up to me to save it alone. But I also know that I can easily destroy whatever is left of it by my actions. So maybe I should say that I don't intend on purposely destroying it. The saving it will take her getting out of the affair and then us working on it if we choose.
> So I am careful in my approach. I'm not the one to fly off the handle and react anymore. Whenever I have done that in the past it has yielded little results and almost always brought out regret.
> After she text me my typical response is nothing. I would leave it at that. Instead this time I just told her I am not doing or saying anything bad to her. That all of this is a result of cheating and an ongoing affair during a marriage.
> 
> But I do take what you have said about me conditioning her to not have consequences. Anytime before when I wouldn't communicate with her she would eventually throw out something like she was rethinking everything and she regretted it all. I would lap it up and then she would go right back to affair land.
> So you are absolutely correct. She thinks she can push and push and I will not take a stand.
> I'm working on changing that now.
> And as far as all images y'all speak of. It makes me wonder what you get out of saying some of it. It's not like I don't know she was/is sleeping with another man. That was probably the hardest thing to wrap my head around when I first found out. I was shell shocked for about a month trying to process how that could happen. But in my past I have had a girlfriend who misrepresented her past. One day I came across some email and it completely changed my view of her. I spent two years being angry and jealous about something that happened before we met.
> Then after I allowed it to destroy the best parts of my relationship with her I came across a technique of thought stopping. Yes it did happen. It is the past. She did lie. But I choose what I allow myself to focus on.
> And I have applied that to parts of this affair as well. Unfortunately probably too well. What she did was beyond what I could stomach.
> Looks like I needed to be able to thought stop and also take decisive steps when action was warranted.
> I'm learning.


She has been living with another man for 6 months, texting her ex for a while, and is back in California with him. Now she can't understand that this is "what it's come to" and is sad that you're separating accounts from her????? 

You do realize your wife is crazy, right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ABHale

I just don't understand you man. Your wife is living with another man and telling you she is going back to him when she leaves her parents home. Man or woman it doesn't matter, one that would do this to their SO doesn't love or respect them anymore. She has been gone the better part of a year. Best of luck but this is AFU..


----------



## truster

mrwalters said:


> After reading this a lot of what she is doing makes sense.
> She just text me telling me she is crying because I deleted her off FB and she is separating the bank accounts like I asked . That she is sad that this is how it is now and she is crying in public and she just can't have me say anything bad to her.


I'm glad you're starting to see the patterns -- once you do, the manipulation doesn't work nearly as well. I hope it doesn't.. because at some point she's going to put away plan #1 (guilt) and fall back on plan #2 (charm), and plan #2 can be *far* more persuasive, despite still being a mere manipulation.

One other tip.. I don't know why we do this, but I've seen it around here and I've seen it in my own troubles. Even once we get it in our heads that our spouse is a cheater and a liar and has been for some time, for some reason it doesn't click that they'll cheat us on money just as quick as love. I'd *strongly* advise you to do any account separation yourself, because if you're putting it in her hands at this moment you may find yourself cleaned out in no time. The lack of respect seems to often bleed over into multiple areas.


----------



## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> I still intend on saving the marriage.


Well mrwalters,

After 15 pages of advice that you have ignored; I'll just say best of luck with that mindset.


----------



## Evinrude58

badmemory said:


> Well mrwalters,
> 
> After 15 pages of advice that you have ignored; I'll just say best of luck with that mindset.


He's doing CPR on a mummy. His marriage was dead months and months ago. Just can't let go, and won't get out of limbo until he does. This woman will clean him out.
She obviously doesn't work and sponges off people. She's a black cloud and he's too rattled to get out of the rain.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> I still intend on saving the marriage. Not that it is up to me to save it alone. But I also know that I can easily destroy whatever is left of it by my actions. So maybe I should say that I don't intend on purposely destroying it. The saving it will take her getting out of the affair and then us working on it if we choose.


What about your inactions???? In order to save a marriage sometimes you have to be willing to end it to forge ahead. You need to bring this to a head one way or the other. 

You cannot wallow in limbo land forever. Talking/writing your thoughts have gotten you nothing. 

You will find that decisive actions will get you far more.


----------



## Marduk

Evinrude58 said:


> She has been living with another man for 6 months, texting her ex for a while, and is back in California with him. Now she can't understand that this is "what it's come to" and is sad that you're separating accounts from her?????
> 
> You do realize your wife is crazy, right?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Like a fox.

She's hoping she has a safe place to come home to in case it gets boring with mr wonderful.

Once she's done getting her rocks off, she may get bored and come home. And he'll do the work and reconcile...

Until she gets bored and horny again.


----------



## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> What about your inactions???? In order to save a marriage sometimes you have to be willing to end it to forge ahead. You need to bring this to a head one way or the other.
> 
> You cannot wallow in limbo land forever. Talking/writing your thoughts have gotten you nothing.
> 
> You will find that decisive actions will get you far more.


Good advice. i have been taking actions. Since starting this thread I have come to terms that she is still in affair, have opened my eyes to how she is being manipulative (Pointing out that she is hiding things on FB from me while showing things differnt to everyone else and comparing those actions to what she is doing in reality.. that really hit home). i have deleted her off my FB. Asked her her intentions flat out and am not afraid to call her out on anything. I am separating all of our joint accounts and sent her a separation form. 
I'm not wallowing in misery over here. but you are right. i was/am in limbo and that is no place to be!
i have learned to never follow advice blindly, no matter how good it appears to be. She had a number of her friends that she spoke to about her affair when it was starting. Now it is not their fault at all, but she followed some horrible advice from them.
My friend said everyone in the world was against his wife for doing what she did. He said that he held out for the river card and in the end the flop turned in his favor. 

The advice on divorce - sending papers. I am still taking under strong consideration. But whether I send them or not, right now or later, I'm not choked up about it. I got life going on either way. Between work/gym/new product and going out with friends I don't have a single minute to spare worrying about her affair. You are all right, there will be another one out there just as great as she once was. But it is my choice to fold or to call her on it.
A lot of the good advice I hear on here sounds a lot like the advice from the book Love must be tough & Divorce Busting.
I have read both a few times. I see where i have messed up really bad. I did the 180 but not consistently enough.. and that in itself is failing. What i have not got back from books is the back and forth that i get here.
I was trying to win her back for the first 6 weeks. that was a real killer. i really didnt know what to do or how to handle it. especially since she kept acting like she was moments away from coming back. 
Theres no time machine, I must make the best moves as I go ahead.
Thanks for all the advice. I have to say that I have learned a few things that have really clicked for me.


----------



## Marduk

mrwalters said:


> Good advice. i have been taking actions. Since starting this thread I have come to terms that she is still in affair, have opened my eyes to how she is being manipulative (Pointing out that she is hiding things on FB from me while showing things differnt to everyone else and comparing those actions to what she is doing in reality.. that really hit home). i have deleted her off my FB. Asked her her intentions flat out and am not afraid to call her out on anything. I am separating all of our joint accounts and sent her a separation form.
> I'm not wallowing in misery over here. but you are right. i was/am in limbo and that is no place to be!
> i have learned to never follow advice blindly, no matter how good it appears to be. She had a number of her friends that she spoke to about her affair when it was starting. Now it is not their fault at all, but she followed some horrible advice from them.
> My friend said everyone in the world was against his wife for doing what she did. He said that he held out for the river card and in the end the flop turned in his favor.
> 
> The advice on divorce - sending papers. I am still taking under strong consideration. But whether I send them or not, right now or later, I'm not choked up about it. I got life going on either way. Between work/gym/new product and going out with friends I don't have a single minute to spare worrying about her affair. You are all right, there will be another one out there just as great as she once was. But it is my choice to fold or to call her on it.
> A lot of the good advice I hear on here sounds a lot like the advice from the book Love must be tough & Divorce Busting.
> I have read both a few times. I see where i have messed up really bad. I did the 180 but not consistently enough.. and that in itself is failing. What i have not got back from books is the back and forth that i get here.
> I was trying to win her back for the first 6 weeks. that was a real killer. i really didnt know what to do or how to handle it. especially since she kept acting like she was moments away from coming back.
> Theres no time machine, I must make the best moves as I go ahead.
> Thanks for all the advice. I have to say that I have learned a few things that have really clicked for me.


Want to clear the decks and understand her headspace?

"Soon to be ex, I've decided to start dating again. It's clear you've found someone else, and I'm going to do the same. It's clearly not cheating, because you've been having sex and living with another guy for months."

And then go and actually do that. Date. Even non-romantically. Just go out and be part of the human race again.

Let quality females re-enter your life. They'll surprise you. Delight you. Intrigue you. 

And help you get your head screwed back on straight again.


----------



## Marc878

Mr Walters as you read up on here most of the advice comes from real life experiences of those that have been there before you. From their successes and failures.

You'd be wise to learn from it. You've wandered in the damn wilderness way to long. 

Kick it into overdrive. Maybe it'll work out maybe it won't but delaying does not work in your favor.


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## mrwalters

At first I posted on marriage builders site. 
It's amazing how different some of the advice is. 
It's been so long since I said anything on there, but mostly what I got out of it was try to be as nice as I can, and then go dark. 
I have to say that the first part was near impossible. 
Two totally different approaches. 

As for all the negative remarks. I've learned that there are a ton of personalities out there. Especially managing people for so long. 
I do find it odd reading some of the comments that delve into the specifics of the situation that have never been discussed. A whole lot of projection and speculation. Either way, rather than spend time defending or reiterating things I just don't respond to some of it, not worth my effort. 
In any case, this back and forth has given me a lot to chew on. 
From what I've been hearing it sounds like a lot of you have made it through an affair through divorce and moving on. That's great, and if I end up divorced and moving on I can only hope to make it through better off myself. That would be the best outcome of all because my life pre affair was quite awesome. 
Any of y'all reading/responding make it through an affair with a better marriage afterwards?
If so what do you think was a major contributing factor?


----------



## truster

mrwalters said:


> Any of y'all reading/responding make it through an affair with a better marriage afterwards?
> If so what do you think was a major contributing factor?


A qualifier you might want to ask for is how far the affair went. No doubt you may hear from people who had a one night stand, or perhaps a brief fling which was discovered. These scenarios are very different from the one you find yourself in.. frankly, it's on the extreme end of bad behavior. And this is coming from someone whose WW was sleeping with multiple men she met on a website dedicated to finding married sex partners.


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## turnera

I started out on marriagebuilders, too. I drank the koolaid. Until I started questioning things, and then got kicked out for daring to tell a poster that they could 'also' get more information on 'other' sites. 

I have since learned that there is MORE to fixing marriages than Dr. Harley's simplistic love them to death mantra. There's more psychology involved and his schpiel doesn't always work.


----------



## Marduk

mrwalters said:


> At first I posted on marriage builders site.
> It's amazing how different some of the advice is.
> It's been so long since I said anything on there, but mostly what I got out of it was try to be as nice as I can, and then go dark.
> I have to say that the first part was near impossible.
> Two totally different approaches.
> 
> As for all the negative remarks. I've learned that there are a ton of personalities out there. Especially managing people for so long.
> I do find it odd reading some of the comments that delve into the specifics of the situation that have never been discussed. A whole lot of projection and speculation. Either way, rather than spend time defending or reiterating things I just don't respond to some of it, not worth my effort.
> In any case, this back and forth has given me a lot to chew on.
> From what I've been hearing it sounds like a lot of you have made it through an affair through divorce and moving on. That's great, and if I end up divorced and moving on I can only hope to make it through better off myself. That would be the best outcome of all because my life pre affair was quite awesome.
> Any of y'all reading/responding make it through an affair with a better marriage afterwards?
> If so what do you think was a major contributing factor?


An EA not a PA but yes. We're still together and things are good. 

I'll tell you this. The nice guy approach didn't work. The sensitive guy approach didn't work. The rational guy approach didn't work. The constructive guy approach didn't work. 

The walking away guy approach did work. That's what got her to recognize that it wasn't all in my head, that maybe the whole deal was ****ed up, and maybe she crossed a lot of boundaries. 

And frankly scared the **** out of her. And me, too. Because separation papers were being drawn up, lawyers were being talked to, and I had been sleeping in another room for a couple weeks. 

I had to let go of needing her. Of thinking we were forever. Of thinking that either of us were replaceable. 

I had to let go of my fear and my weakness. At least enough of it to see things clearly. And I needed to learn how to express boundaries not out of defensiveness or fear or vanity, but out of self respect. And so much more. 

Are you up for that?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABHale

Mrwalters the problem is this. She is not having a affair, she has left you. She has been living with another man for over half a year and still is. She is not coming back home after a hook up or a little trip, she is gone man. She is not even trying to make things work, not there with you to do so. Here you are saying you want to make it work, it takes two to do this and the one that is needed to make it happen is MIA. She can send all the sob sob sob text she wants it doesn't mean a thing until her actions go along with what she is saying. This has never happened has it?


----------



## Evinrude58

ABHale said:


> Mrwalters the problem is this. She is not having a affair, she has left you. She has been living with another man for over half a year and still is. She is not coming back home after a hook up or a little trip, she is gone man. She is not even trying to make things work, not there with you to do so. Here you are saying you want to make it work, it takes two to do this and the one that is needed to make it happen is MIA. She can send all the sob sob sob text she wants it doesn't mean a thing until her actions go along with what she is saying. This has never happened has it?


I personally think that she is only texting him all the nonsense so the bank accounts stay open, and the money keeps flowing.
If OP ever cuts her off, he won't hear from her again.

He has this sad dream that one day she's going to come back and everything will be like it was, or they can work out a new, happier life together. It's all a dream. It's not going to happen. She is GONE, and BEEN GONE for quite a while.

And she gives him just enough communication that he somehow gets enough hope to keep playing into her hands.

I just don't think any man should think twice about anything other than divorcing when their wife moves in with another man. She surely would never have the title "mrs. Evinrude" again.

This WW is NEVER going to make anyone a decent wife--- she's crazy.
JMO
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> At first I posted on marriage builders site.
> It's amazing how different some of the advice is.
> It's been so long since I said anything on there, but mostly what I got out of it was try to be as nice as I can, and then go dark.
> I have to say that the first part was near impossible.
> Two totally different approaches.
> 
> As for all the negative remarks. I've learned that there are a ton of personalities out there. Especially managing people for so long.
> I do find it odd reading some of the comments that delve into the specifics of the situation that have never been discussed. A whole lot of projection and speculation. Either way, rather than spend time defending or reiterating things I just don't respond to some of it, not worth my effort.
> In any case, this back and forth has given me a lot to chew on.
> From what I've been hearing it sounds like a lot of you have made it through an affair through divorce and moving on. That's great, and if I end up divorced and moving on I can only hope to make it through better off myself. That would be the best outcome of all because my life pre affair was quite awesome.
> Any of y'all reading/responding make it through an affair with a better marriage afterwards?
> If so what do you think was a major contributing factor?


You can only fix your end. 

If she sees that and wants to come along you can try reconciliation but I don't think that's gonna happen as its drug out so long. 

What taking control will get you is a future with or without her. Women respect strength. Weakness is unnattractive. 

Start getting your life lined up for yourself. You want to wallow in limbo go ahead. Take a good look at what you've gotten so far.

You are living in fear and paralysis. Why would anyone want that????


----------



## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> You can only fix your end.
> 
> If she sees that and wants to come along you can try reconciliation but I don't think that's gonna happen as its drug out so long.
> 
> What taking control will get you is a future with or without her. Women respect strength. Weakness is unnattractive.
> 
> Start getting your life lined up for yourself. You want to wallow in limbo go ahead. Take a good look at what you've gotten so far.
> 
> You are living in fear and paralysis. Why would anyone want that????


It has drug out for a long time thats for sure.
Good advice, decisive action. I'm not in limbo anymore. Something clicked in me last Sunday that changed my outlook on it. It was when I caught her trying to manipulate me. Now I see it for what it is. Do I have hope, sure. But I'm not hanging onto it.
Last Sunday after I caught her doing that I called her out on it. I've been calling her out on it but this time it was different, I was completely fed up.
I know for a fact that she could tell I was done with the BS. I had mentioned it in my past letter, spelled it out for her what it was I needed. 
Am I going to give up on her? I have a timeline in my mind. But the limbo is gone and with that so is that sick feeling inside.

As for her using me for money, etc. None of that was going on. What was going on was an affair/betrayal and her keeping me on the hook. She now lo longer has me on the hook. You are right, she didnt just have an affair, she ran off with the other guy. She will have to deal with her decisions and figure out her own mess.


----------



## truster

mrwalters said:


> As for her using me for money, etc. None of that was going on. What was going on was an affair/betrayal and her keeping me on the hook. She now lo longer has me on the hook. You are right, she didnt just have an affair, she ran off with the other guy. She will have to deal with her decisions and figure out her own mess.


Even if she hasn't before, if she thinks she's lost you she may decide there's nothing lost in grabbing some cash on her way out. A spouse suddenly making a grab for things when divorce is filed is not an uncommon occurrence. It's not a given, but best to be safe. Is there a practical reason for you *not* to handle the account separation?


----------



## Evinrude58

I think you are starting to accept, but haven't yet. When you accept your marriage is over, you will start getting over the pain in an exponential manner. You can't let yourself hope anymore, Mr W. It will just keep you in pain. Make a conscious decision to move forward with your life without her. Try not to think about her. See other women and get your mind on that. 
If your wife comes to you with real remorse, an offer of reconciliation can always be entertained. But letting her constantly occupy your mind in a painful way, as you have been doing, is no way to live. 

Start living again. Accept what has happened and move forward. You won't regret it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Marduk

Stop writing letters. Stop taking her phone calls. Stop responding to her texts.

Have a lawyer draft up a separation agreement and send her that instead.

You need to stop this, man.


----------



## mrwalters

marduk said:


> Stop writing letters. Stop taking her phone calls. Stop responding to her texts.
> 
> Have a lawyer draft up a separation agreement and send her that instead.
> 
> You need to stop this, man.


Ok. that has all stopped.
I sent the separation agreement on monday, she should be getting it today or tomorrow. I authorized her to remove her phone off my business account.
she isn't going to grab cash or anything else, but I do appreciate the advice on it and if it happens then it will save me that much money in counseling and grief.
Out of it all, the thing that did occur that I am 100% certain on is she made some horrible choices. Hopefully she comes out of it ok.
I just got tickets this weekend to go to a concert with a good girl-friend of mine. I'm not going to get into a relationship beyond a friendship with this girl, but we the companionship will be good company.


----------



## Marduk

mrwalters said:


> Ok. that has all stopped.
> I sent the separation agreement on monday, she should be getting it today or tomorrow. I authorized her to remove her phone off my business account.
> she isn't going to grab cash or anything else, but I do appreciate the advice on it and if it happens then it will save me that much money in counseling and grief.
> Out of it all, the thing that did occur that I am 100% certain on is she made some horrible choices. Hopefully she comes out of it ok.
> I just got tickets this weekend to go to a concert with a good girl-friend of mine. I'm not going to get into a relationship beyond a friendship with this girl, but we the companionship will be good company.


How does that feel?


----------



## mrwalters

Not sure yet. I've been doing this before, the no contact thing with her. It was to protect myself and try to force her to miss me.
Now I am ok with her contacting me, as long as it isnt endless texts. I'm not going to read further into what she is saying or allow her to manipulate me. So contact or no contact I will be fine.


----------



## Marc878

I hope for your sake you have this now.

I'd go dark completely and file divorce papers ASAP 

As far as dating. You are correct. No rebounds. No harm in seeing others as long as you keep it light.

Good luck


----------



## Be smart

Sorry to ask this,but can you please help me. I read OP responses two times and I have a really hard time understanding him.

He literally told his wife to keep seeing other man,living with them (she done that for almost two years) while he finds out what he wants from his life or marriage.

He is still not sure about Divorce,living together or something like that so he is giving his wife "time" so he can think about his life/marriage.

I am really confused so please forgive me.


----------



## mrwalters

Be smart said:


> Sorry to ask this,but can you please help me. I read OP responses two times and I have a really hard time understanding him.
> 
> He literally told his wife to keep seeing other man,living with them (she done that for almost two years) while he finds out what he wants from his life or marriage.
> 
> He is still not sure about Divorce,living together or something like that so he is giving his wife "time" so he can think about his life/marriage.
> 
> I am really confused so please forgive me.


... We'll make sure to help you out as best we can, but maybe it would be best if you read it through a few dozen more times. Just to make sure you got it all straight.


----------



## Be smart

mrwalters said:


> ... We'll make sure to help you out as best we can, but maybe it would be best if you read it through a few dozen more times. Just to make sure you got it all straight.


No need to be rude my friend and I was following your story since your first post here. 
I really wanted to help you and support you but you dont want to open your eyes and see the truth. I will even support you if you decide to forgive your wife but I just couldnt understand why would you give your wife a second chance or was it third,fourth ... 

Maybe it would help me or some other member if you write your thoughts but never mind.

Take care.


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Be smart said:


> No need to be rude my friend and I was following your story since your first post here.
> I really wanted to help you and support you but you dont want to open your eyes and see the truth. I will even support you if you decide to forgive your wife but I just couldnt understand why would you give your wife a second chance or was it third,fourth ...
> 
> Maybe it would help me or some other member if you write your thoughts but never mind.
> 
> Take care.


Don't bother re-reading his thread. I saved you the trouble and looked it up. The only thing missing was his picture.:smile2:


• LOST CAUSE (noun)
The noun LOST CAUSE has 1 sense:

1. a defeated cause or a cause for which defeat is inevitable

Familiarity information: LOST CAUSE used as a noun is very rare.


----------



## truster

Hey, I think OP is making progress. You don't deal with this for however many months and then just read something on a forum that's so genius your whole world turns upside down. It's a process of slow realizations. I think everyone who's been through it knows "the faster the better", but such a huge shift just doesn't happen in a week.

Just don't backslide when she starts putting a little sugar on those table scraps she's feeding you, OP


----------



## mrwalters

truster said:


> Hey, I think OP is making progress. You don't deal with this for however many months and then just read something on a forum that's so genius your whole world turns upside down. It's a process of slow realizations. I think everyone who's been through it knows "the faster the better", but such a huge shift just doesn't happen in a week.
> 
> Just don't backslide when she starts putting a little sugar on those table scraps she's feeding you, OP


Good advice.
We havent spoken since I sent the separation papers. She is still in AK. Part of me holds onto the hope that she is getting out of the affair by being up there.
it is slow realizations. The biggest one was when I put together that she was doing the same thing on FB as in real life, showing me one side and doing the other.
So I came out of hiding. back on FB, deleted her, and living life again. Met a number of people since then, men and women.
One of the guys i met is hung up on a girl who left him. I find it easy to spew the advice I see here. It makes me realize that I too had my eyes closed. Also listening to him whine about her made me really see how pathetic it is. Luckily I have kept the whining in the forum.
I do appreciate the constructive advice. I still have my goal, not to destroy whatever chances I have left. I can't control her destroying it, but I do have complete control over me.
SO I've been hitting the gym again 6 days a week, going out w great friends, and taking care of me and trying to not worry about what she is up to. She's going to figure that out, just like I am figuring out what I need for myself.
I think that she will eventually come out of the affair, it seems pointed that way. What happens after that... 
I better be prepared to handle being able to walk away from it, her walking away from it, or a reconciliation.
Not concentrating on her has been the most helpful thing so far.


----------



## karole

mrwalters said:


> Good advice.
> We havent spoken since I sent the separation papers. She is still in AK. Part of me holds onto the hope that she is getting out of the affair by being up there.
> it is slow realizations. The biggest one was when I put together that she was doing the same thing on FB as in real life, showing me one side and doing the other.
> So I came out of hiding. back on FB, deleted her, and living life again. Met a number of people since then, men and women.
> One of the guys i met is hung up on a girl who left him. I find it easy to spew the advice I see here. It makes me realize that I too had my eyes closed. Also listening to him whine about her made me really see how pathetic it is. Luckily I have kept the whining in the forum.
> I do appreciate the constructive advice. I still have my goal, not to destroy whatever chances I have left. I can't control her destroying it, but I do have complete control over me.
> SO I've been hitting the gym again 6 days a week, going out w great friends, and taking care of me and trying to not worry about what she is up to. She's going to figure that out, just like I am figuring out what I need for myself.
> I think that she will eventually come out of the affair, it seems pointed that way. What happens after that...
> I better be prepared to handle being able to walk away from it, her walking away from it, or a reconciliation.
> Not concentrating on her has been the most helpful thing so far.



Honey, why would you want this woman back? From reading your thread, you should be thankful that she's gone. Do you not think you deserve better than a liar and a cheater? Really do think about that for awhile. She isn't worth the worry.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> Good advice.
> We havent spoken since I sent the separation papers. She is still in AK. Part of me holds onto the hope that she is getting out of the affair by being up there.
> it is slow realizations. The biggest one was when I put together that she was doing the same thing on FB as in real life, showing me one side and doing the other.
> So I came out of hiding. back on FB, deleted her, and living life again. Met a number of people since then, men and women.
> One of the guys i met is hung up on a girl who left him. I find it easy to spew the advice I see here. It makes me realize that I too had my eyes closed. Also listening to him whine about her made me really see how pathetic it is. Luckily I have kept the whining in the forum.
> I do appreciate the constructive advice. I still have my goal, not to destroy whatever chances I have left. I can't control her destroying it, but I do have complete control over me.
> SO I've been hitting the gym again 6 days a week, going out w great friends, and taking care of me and trying to not worry about what she is up to. She's going to figure that out, just like I am figuring out what I need for myself.
> I think that she will eventually come out of the affair, it seems pointed that way. What happens after that...
> I better be prepared to handle being able to walk away from it, her walking away from it, or a reconciliation.
> Not concentrating on her has been the most helpful thing so far.


You're doing the right things (exercising, socializing), that'll make further progress more likely to happen. Sometimes when you have good, healthy fun with other people it really highlights how dysfunctional your previous 'normal' was.

You might want to check out the 'Myth: "They Come Crawling Back"' thread here in this same subforum. There are some hard-won stories towards the end of the thread from people who eventually 'won' their wives back. How they felt before 'winning', how they felt after, how it eventually turned out. You may see some things in there that you recognize, and might be helpful.


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## mrwalters

Wow. 
That thread really helped. Thank you. It probably is a pipe dream that she will wake up and come crawling back. That's a fantasy. 
Looks like 1/3 reconcile, I didn't know that either. 
Looks like I'll have to give up on the fantasy of her seeing the light and try to come to terms w what has happened. To me it felt so fixable, but that's because I haven't given up yet. For her to do this something must have been so broken for her that she justified it. 
What a mess that an affair has made of all of this. Such a shame. 
I'm still not giving up, but my eyes are a lot more open.


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## Evinrude58

I hope that you can give up soon. You're making huge progress of you're out and about with friends.

You giving up and moving on is the only chance of getting her back. I suspect there's a small chance she will think about returning when she discovers you are dating another .

Don't take her back
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TX-SC

You are still being Plan B. Until you give up on it completely, you'll remain Plan B.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> Wow.
> That thread really helped. Thank you. It probably is a pipe dream that she will wake up and come crawling back. That's a fantasy.
> Looks like 1/3 reconcile, I didn't know that either.
> Looks like I'll have to give up on the fantasy of her seeing the light and try to come to terms w what has happened. To me it felt so fixable, but that's because I haven't given up yet. For her to do this something must have been so broken for her that she justified it.
> What a mess that an affair has made of all of this. Such a shame.
> I'm still not giving up, but my eyes are a lot more open.


I thought it was especially interesting from the perspective of the people whose spouses DID come back, but they realized after they 'won', that the prize wasn't really that worth it. That's common even when not in relationships, I suppose, that we can get caught up in winning something and lose sight of whether the end goal is even worth it.

Speaking of, what's your opinion as to why you want to make it work? Do you think it's like the people in the thread, where you hate to 'lose' the heart of someone, or be the person who divorced again? You seemed confident in yourself outside of your marriage, but is the resistance to divorce that you don't think you can do better? Or just that the change seems exhausting and unwelcome?


----------



## turnera

mrwalters said:


> What a mess that an affair has made of all of this. Such a shame.


Anyone here watch Major Crimes? It just finished a five-episode arc that centers around this one woman who went through a half dozen or so married men, before she was killed, and all the utter devastation that resulted from it. I urge people to watch those episodes, to see the betrayed spouses and how the cheating affected them - and continued to affect them, years later.


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## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> Wow.
> That thread really helped. Thank you. It probably is a pipe dream that she will wake up and come crawling back. That's a fantasy.
> Looks like 1/3 reconcile, I didn't know that either.
> Looks like I'll have to give up on the fantasy of her seeing the light and try to come to terms w what has happened. To me it felt so fixable, but that's because I haven't given up yet. For her to do this something must have been so broken for her that she justified it.
> What a mess that an affair has made of all of this. Such a shame.
> I'm still not giving up, but my eyes are a lot more open.


The problem is not her now. It's you. You're still in denial of what's happened. Still hoping. For what? The marriage you knew is long gone and that is never coming back. 

If you open your eyes your best bet is to move on with your life you can't fix her. You still don't get this yet.


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## mrwalters

That's a very good question to ask me. How come I still would want it to work out. This will be a rant because I'm on a plane headed to Vegas. 
After reading about others stating that the prize wasn't worth it I can see how that definetly can be the case many times. 
When would that be the case for me?
long long ago when I was younger I would only date girls who never dated before. The deal breaker was that I was the one they fell for first. This naive approach was so that I felt like the only one. 
Later that became an impossibility. So their sexual past would heavily weigh in my decision to date. Now that I'm older I also realize that with age and experience comes a lot of things. 
I would have never stood by someone who cheated on me. Not ever. But now that it has happened during my marriage I also have come to some terms with it. By no way do I or will I ever think that it is ok. 
But if it happens in a large percentage of marriages... Than maybe there is more to it than meets the eye. 
This was my wife before the affair: She loved me more than anything. I can say for certain that she would have moved mountains for me. And I would have moved mountains for her. 
Because she felt so bad about herself and because she allowed herself to think that I didn't care for her.. Also because I did do some things very wrong in our relationship. She was always chasing me. She was lonely while I was away at work for months at a time. She never told me how lonely she was, she never talked about how much she was hurting about her failure in her business. I also did not listen. Both our faults. 
Someone came along and told her all the right things. Before she knew it she was deep in an emotional affair in less than a month. Less than a month later she was in a physical affair. 
The book- his needs her needs - really spelled it out to me exactly how it happened. 
Once she was in the affair she became... Crazy. Only word for it. 
Someone who was the most honest, most sincere person ever. She lied to me, to her parents, to all her friends. 
Then she left. Anyone who knew about her affair she abandoned too. Friends of 20 years who didn't agree with her she stopped talking to and then said she didn't understand why they abandoned her in her time of need. 
It became all about her. Every conversation she had with me was about how she was hurting. How she was sad. 
If it ever came up and she would think about me she might ask me if I was ok. Id have to do my best to act like I had my stuff together. I painted that picture well. If she allowed herself to feel the pain she was causing she would begin to break down and then go back into hiding. 
She would leave CA and then when she had to face reality without him she would go back. Back and forth. 
This is not the actions of the person I married. 
She wasn't a bad person who then began making bad decisions. She was a great person who got into an affair and then made horrible decisions. She didn't have appropriate boundaries. She allowed herself to think w her emotions. 
She destroyed a marriage and what we had. 
So to answer your question. When is enough enough?
I used to say it would be the second she cheated. Then it would be the second she lied. 
Then it would be the second she betrayed me. The day she left. 
The week after. 
Now I do not know. I know that each day that passes is getting that much closer to something. Whether it is a divorce or her coming out of it. I don't know. 
I have always stuck by my words. In business if I made a mistake and promised something I could not deliver I found a way to deliver it. It has served me well and simultaneously caused me a lot of anxiety and extra work. But I have learned that once I make a decision that it is best to stick to it. 
Before we married we dated a long time. I made a decision to stick by her through a yearlong sickness. Through blood clots, through it all. 
When she left I made the decision to not divorce that day. 
I told myself that I'd wait it out, make sure that divorce is something that I absolutely want. That what she is doing is so far out of character that there must be something wrong. 
Now here I am. 7 months later. Never thought I'd make it past a week. Honestly thought I'd end it all the day she left. 

She is no longer living with him. She knows that I am a very sensible person and I don't jump off the handle. Sending her separation papers that outline divorce is concrete evidence of my intentions. 
The letter I last wrote her, explaining where I was at with the affair and all of it outlined it very clearly. 
I do hope she comes out of it. As of right now, she's in AK and with her parents. That's a whole lot better than living with AP. Does that mean she won't continue affair. No. 
She outright told me she can't see a future without me. 
Now I know that doesn't mean much because her actions are spelling out a future without me. 
I hope she comes out of her affair and I hope she comes back to being a version of what she once was. 
I know that I will never be the same after this, For a fact. 
But I also know that I have grown too. That her weight and other nuisances that bothered me won't be an issue in future relationships or in a relationship w her should that be the case. I'm a whole lot more easy going. 
So where does it end?
I'd have to say that it ends when she goes back to CA again, Or She tells me flat out its over. If she leaves her parents and has to see him again then it is obviously over. She will never get past what she did. 
I know that I am willing to make a solid effort to get over it. I am making the effort right now and everyday. Sometimes I catch myself getting excited about a future with her. I do my best to stop that dead in its tracks now. That's not healthy. 
I don't bad mouth her. All the hate and rage will not change the past. I have to live through this and I wouldnt wish this on anyone, ever. Worst experience of my life by far. 
I'd like to think that if others have gone through this and made it back together and happy than it is a possibility for me. As my friend who made it through his wife's affair. He said "it's not over until it's over"
I have succeeded at most things that I have put significant thought and effort into. 
That being said, the thought and effort is on her too, and there is no way I can make our marriage work with her having an affair. She also has to want to come back and work on the marriage. 
It was very tough releasing my mental reigns and allowing her to leave. 
I know that this is probably the best thing I can do for myself as well as it being the best thing I can do to save the marriage. I think it's the only thing I can do. 
When I do decide to divorce I am hoping that it will be when I have come to terms with what has happened and accepted that everything that could have been done has been done. 
Of course I don't won't to fail at marriage. I am afraid of starting all over too. Who wouldnt be. 
Will I be ok if it does end, probably. 
I may even have a shot at a wife AND kids in the next one. That's something that I could be ready for. 
I do have a beautiful girl to hang out with. She is nice and smart, young and successful. We are not having sex and that is something that I have decided is best while I am still married. How long can that last.. Probably living on borrowed time as it is. 
This forum has helped tons. The thread on how people feel befor/after reconciliation and the success rates has helped. 
I'm hoping to get enough happiness in my life that the affair and what she did is something I can live with as a thing of the past. If we do begin to reconcile someday then I will have to get past it, so may as well do it for myself now. Tough to do without all the puzzle pieces but I work with what I got. If she never comes back I have to use these same pieces to work through it anyway. 
I think that if I use my brains enough I can engineer that life, I just have to make the right decisions and act on them. 
It's so tough focusing on the positive. I fight to do it everyday. Got a stupid rubber band around my wrist to help train me. I'm trying to develop the survivor mindset and discard the victim mentality. 
Some days are better than others. 
If I stick w my plan than hopefully by the time she either comes around or I find someone else I will be successful in friendships, business, and I will be a genuinely happy person. 
She has to figure her sh*t out. Maybe she will never come back, I dunno. 
But divorce to me right now would be another chess move. 
She doesn't have contact with me, she knows how I feel about it all. She also knows she can't play me as second fiddle and that I am out living my life just as she is living hers. 
I know that she is jealous of any girl around me. She even had the gumption to get mad at me having new female friends after she left. 
So I'm going to use that to my advantage. Jealousy can be a good tool. I want to make sure I don't use it to destroy the marriage any further. 
I know she left. I get that. She is gone. The marriage has been shattered, but for right now she and I have both not thrown in the towel. The second she says she wants out I'm going to grant it. 
The second I can say that I am ok with my decision to divorce than that will be something I do.


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## farsidejunky

No conditions? Just acceptance?

Your life, brother... Those who don't learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## mrwalters

farsidejunky said:


> No conditions? Just acceptance?
> 
> Your life, brother... Those who don't learn from their history are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


I don't know where you read that. 
The conditions are that the affair is over and she is committed to the marriage. 
afyer reading on the "myth they come crawling back"
I asked my friend who went through it. 
His wife didn't come crawling back. She had her conditions too, as absurd as it sounds. 
I'm sure if it were to go down the road of reconciliation some day then my wife will have her conditions too. 
It'd be nice to imagine she comes crawling back, but more than likely is she does make a u turn then we will both have a lot to deal with. 
Before the affair if have to say that most of the changing would be on me. Now after it I'd have to say the bulk of it would be on her.


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## TX-SC

The woman you married is the same one that cheated. These are not two separate people, no matter how much you want to remember it that way. She wasn't possessed by a demon. She cheated and walked away from your marriage. That IS who she is. Back when things were good, you simply didn't know who she really is. Now you do. 

That's the part that you really need to internalize. You shouldn't WANT this person back in your life now that you know who she really is. 

You have no kids. You are lucky in that regard. Divide up your stuff as you see fit and move on. Find someone who hasn't cheated and start over.


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## Marc878

Your best bet IMO is start moving on with your life. She'll either get on board or won't. You'll be in limbo a year soon. The longer this goes on the less chance of it ever working out.

Besides if she comes back what do you really have????? I wouldn't want to have to walk on eggshells, looking over my shoulder, etc.

That's a life not worth living. But it's your life. Personsonally I think you're wasting it on this. 

Remember even if she were to comback it's not over.


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## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> Your best bet IMO is start moving on with your life. She'll either get on board or won't. You'll be in limbo a year soon. The longer this goes on the less chance of it ever working out.
> 
> Besides if she comes back what do you really have????? I wouldn't want to have to walk on eggshells, looking over my shoulder, etc.
> 
> That's a life not worth living. But it's your life. Personsonally I think you're wasting it on this.
> 
> Remember even if she were to comback it's not over.


Good advice. Thanks.


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## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> Your best bet IMO is start moving on with your life. She'll either get on board or won't. You'll be in limbo a year soon. The longer this goes on the less chance of it ever working out.
> 
> Besides if she comes back what do you really have????? I wouldn't want to have to walk on eggshells, looking over my shoulder, etc.
> 
> That's a life not worth living. But it's your life. Personsonally I think you're wasting it on this.
> 
> Remember even if she were to comback it's not over.


Good advice. Thanks.


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## Evinrude58

Clinging to false hope.
He's not in limbo. His wife is GONE.
She hasn't been vague or anything else. She hasn't come back, hasn't suggested she is.
What she has done is chase every man she can think of, and have the gall to pretend she's just a confused little child.
OP has made every excuse in the book for her, while she mind- f's him big time. 
When will it end?
Only OP knows.

"She doesn't have contact with me, she knows how I feel about it all. She also knows she can't play me as second fiddle and that I am out living my life just as she is living hers. ". 
Yes, she does know how you feel, and yes, she is playing you as third or fourth fiddle. You are letting her. 
You are enabling her by inaction. 
Ask yourself this: would I respect a man doing what I'm doing? If your answer is no, why do you not change?

Think about this as well: You sent her separation papers. Dude! She was already separated!!!! How firm is that statement?
It's like telling a guy serving life in prison you're going to make him serve a year in prison if he doesn't behave.... It's a useless threat. Has no incentive for her to change. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

> She outright told me she can't see a future without me.


As what? 

Husband? Pen pal? Girlfriend? Consultant?

Is she going to keep you on the hook for the rest of your life so she can have someone to call up every once in a while and b!tch and moan to about her bad hair day, or how the front tires on her car are bald, or how her latest fvck buddy gave her chlamydia?


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> long long ago when I was younger I would only date girls who never dated before. The deal breaker was that I was the one they fell for first. This naive approach was so that I felt like the only one.


Wow. That is SEVERE LOW SELF ESTEEM.

That doesn't go away.

I mean like, dysfunctional to the max.

I hope you're getting help for that.


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## eric1

She's moved on in the worst way possible. Not only is this a signal for you to move on, but to remove every remnant of her from your life now and going forward.

You're killing yourself man


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## truster

turnera said:


> Wow. That is SEVERE LOW SELF ESTEEM.


Turnera has a point.. that detail in your story stands out as extreme. You seem to be aware of that, since you brought it up.

The treatment you'll accept from your wife is also extreme. It's possible the two are connected. Have you been doing any counselling since she left? If not, it might be a very good idea in order to get your head straight and improve yourself for the next relationship. The good thing about relationships ending is that it shocks you awake to do the kind of self-improvement that you normally might not have the motivation for. A lot of folks, after having moved on, report here that they're happier (and healthier) than they've ever been.


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## turnera

I recall the abusive boyfriend my DD25 met at age 20. She met him online, wouldn't meet him in person for four months, to be sure he was ok. Didn't even invite him to her birthday party at 3 months. He seemed SO safe and healthy. Said all the right things. But guess what attracted him to her? The fact that she said that, at age 20, she was still a virgin. Why? Because she wasn't willing to give it up to just anyone. He had to be worth it.

But all HE saw was that she was a virgin.

Meaning, the abusive, insecure, controlling jerk that he was wanted a virgin so that she had nobody to compare him against, and leave him for.

When he found out about 8 months later that she had actually had some intimate times (showering with a guy when she was 18, etc.) with other guys, he had the nerve to kick her out of his apartment. He couldn't handle the 'competition.'

Thank God that by the time he called her back four months later and said he would 'give her another chance,' if she apologized, she just laughed at him.

That's what I think about when I hear men who say they want virgins or girls with no experience.


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## Evinrude58

Nothing wrong with wanting a virgin. 
Making it a deal breaker nowadays is pretty goofy. 
It's not all about not having her compare you (what's wrong with that, actually???), it's about the fact that she's got some character.

Stating that secure men don't want virginity is not accurate, IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrwalters

I guess I should have explained that that was back in high school. Merely letting on to the fact that things have changed a lot. 
That was 20 years ago. I don't think counseling for what I thought that long ago and before college will make any difference. 
Y'all read far too much into things.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> I guess I should have explained that that was back in high school. Merely letting on to the fact that things have changed a lot.
> That was 20 years ago. I don't think counseling for what I thought that long ago and before college will make any difference.
> Y'all read far too much into things.


Oh, I figure that's water under the bridge.. a person who didn't recognize that as a part of them that's not relevant any more probably wouldn't bring it up to illustrate a point.  That wouldn't be a reason to go to counselling on its own.

But what about the current situation? Are you in counselling for that? It's probably the most stressful thing you've ever been through, no?


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## turnera

mrwalters said:


> I guess I should have explained that that was back in high school. Merely letting on to the fact that things have changed a lot.
> That was 20 years ago. I don't think counseling for what I thought that long ago and before college will make any difference.
> Y'all read far too much into things.


I know it was in high school. But did you suddenly wake up one day and say 'wow, I'm amazing'? Low self esteem and insecurity doesn't just go away; it's part of who you are. Unless you DO work on it.


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## turnera

Evinrude58 said:


> Nothing wrong with wanting a virgin.
> Making it a deal breaker nowadays is pretty goofy.
> It's not all about not having her compare you (what's wrong with that, actually???), it's about the fact that she's got some character.
> 
> Stating that secure men don't want virginity is not accurate, IMO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I didn't say that. I simply said that the controlling guy she dated wanted one because of his insecurities.


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## mrwalters

You are right. I did have my insecurities. But I wasn't controlling in a jealous way. Never been like that. My hang up used to be on if she had more of a sexual history than me. 
Now in light of this and meeting other people I realize we all have a history. I used to think that divorced people did something wrong to be in that situation. Now I know sometimes we really have no control. 
I did do some counseling for this. I have talked to a number of my trusted and good friends about it. 
I have met a girl that I talked to about some of this to. After she started developing feelings towards me we cut contact for a month. Now we speak again and I'm careful on what I talk about w her. I realize that is exactly what my wife did with the OM and that's where she got led into her affair. 
Now I'm not sure what a relationship would be called between me and another woman while I'm still married. To me it would be justified and nothing wrong w it because I was the one who was left. I'm sure that's my wife's thoughts too. She was emotionally broken and had an affair, completely justified it to herself. 
So I'm trying to be careful w my actions too. 
As for her being al the horrible nasty things that's just not the case. She doesn't sleep around, wasn't the type. She sticks w one guy. Once she started affair 100% sex and kissing went away for the two of us... Probably felt like she was cheating on OM w me if she did, as hard as that is to stomach. 
As for me, I have my ups and downs. Mornings are the worst!
I have to hit the gym for 2hrs hard and it all melts away somehow. Not sure what that is but it works most everytime. 
As for her still being in affair I see OM still has his FB pic of the two of them. She posts nothing of them together and he is non existent on her page throughout the affair. She is ashamed of it. 
I reread the 180 this morning and caught myself on what I was doing wrong and am trying to make corrections. I'm in NC with her other than an email asking her to separate some bills off my CC. 
I try to stay neutral. I think it's important that she doesn't see me as something to be scared of. She had told me that she is terrified of me getting mad at her and saying "mean things"
She cries easily, always has. 
It's definitely a tough predicament to be calm and collected and at the same time set my boundaries. 
I feel I'm doing a decent job at staying "charge neutral"
Everyday I get a little more relief from the torment of the affair. Telling her how unacceptable it is for her to string me along was probably the best thing I did for myself. Amazing how once she took my balls how I became scared of her affair. 
I do know you are all helping me the best you can and w the advice that will save me heartache. 
Some of the advice has really opened my eyes. 
I'm trying to use it as best I can to get to the place I need to be. The place I am ok w her being gone and the place where I am able to accept a reconciliation someday should that option become available to us. 
I also am beginning to realize just how long that road would be too. It won't be all roses. 
I have to say that I would t be open to a reconciliation with anyone that I loved less than her, and if this were to happen again to me someday w a future woman I'm pretty sure if walk the other way the second it happened. 
Just like my buddy said, that the prize of the love that he and his wife gained was worth it. But he wouldnt do it again. 
The only advice I really got out of my counselor was to get some distractions. He also repeated a lot of the things I said in a way that made me question things I was thinking. 
As far as counseling now I haven't gone in a long time. When I went before I could t stop sobbing. Now I don't know if I could force myself to cry about it. 
Don't know what that means because it still bothers me. I don't know if counseling would help me. I think if I took the money that counseling costs and put it towards adventures it'd be better spent. But I was dead wrong about the antidepressants too so maybe I have some more things to learn.


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## bandit.45

Do you think the 180 is working for you in terms of helping you to detach emotionally? I'm just curious to know if it is doing what it should be doing for you.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> Now I'm not sure what a relationship would be called between me and another woman while I'm still married. To me it would be justified and nothing wrong w it because I was the one who was left. I'm sure that's my wife's thoughts too. She was emotionally broken and had an affair, completely justified it to herself.
> So I'm trying to be careful w my actions too.


Legally, send the divorce papers before screwing around just in case she decides to play hardball (which they usually do). Morally.. she's strung you along for nearly a year -- if that's a dealbreaker for her, then it's just more evidence that she's in a selfish and unremorseful state and is not going to be good for you. Practically.. enjoying life with another person, even if it's not serious, will give you some much-needed perspective on what relationships are like outside of your current one. It's often not until then that you realize how bizarre and unhealthy the old one was.



mrwalters said:


> As for her being al the horrible nasty things that's just not the case. She doesn't sleep around, wasn't the type. She sticks w one guy. Once she started affair 100% sex and kissing went away for the two of us... Probably felt like she was cheating on OM w me if she did, as hard as that is to stomach.


What you describe is a common statement here. I said it myself. I eventually realized two things: 1. You can't tell someone's character during good times. It takes pressure to show.. for people of low character, it just takes less. And 2. Your wife (and mine) are people that we have caught in manipulation and lies plenty after trust was broken. All we know about their past and 'how they've always been' is what they've told us, or what is politely conveyed by friends and family. She's not gonna tell you the people she betrayed, or the cheating she got away with. She won't tell the next guy about what she did to you. That 'always innocent, sticks with one guy, she wouldn't do this' spiel is what I always thought as well, before I finally caught my wife running through man after man.




mrwalters said:


> She had told me that she is terrified of me getting mad at her and saying "mean things"


You said a few pages ago that you realized this isn't true. She's terrified of facing herself.. you're just the instrument through which that takes place. I know, from experience, that the mind can backslide on such realizations. It helps to keep a journal of them to glance over occasionally and remind yourself the ways you've caught her BS'ing, so that it doesn't get swept under the rug (or work in the future).


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## mrwalters

I think the 180 has helped me. As weird as it is going to sound saying it. I got so used to feeling like I could do something that letting go feels like I'm going to fall out of love w her and then no one is holding on anymore. 
You are also right. She probably is crying when she was doing all of the account separation, but she wants me to comfort her. She wants me to tell her it will be ok. 
If she wanted she could stop this by just saying the words that she wants to work on things and gives up the affair. But she hasn't said any of that. 
Only innuendos to it. 
thanks for catching me getting it misconstrued.


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## bandit.45

People who have stuck with the 180 always swear by it later.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> I think the 180 has helped me. As weird as it is going to sound saying it. I got so used to feeling like I could do something that letting go feels like I'm going to fall out of love w her and then no one is holding on anymore.


Which do you mean? No one is holding onto her? Or no one is holding onto you? Or no one is holding onto each other?



mrwalters said:


> If she wanted she could stop this by just saying the words that she wants to work on things and gives up the affair. But she hasn't said any of that.


Very, very true insight. You seem to be asking the bare minimum from her and she can't even do that. This may be a good thing to write down to remind yourself when steeling yourself for the 180.


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## Evinrude58

Exactly. She will not come home. Will not stop seeing the new bf.
Will not stop stringing you along.

You are getting it. But it's hard and it's taking a while. It will.
But when you get out from under the black cloud, you won't want under it again. 

Divorce papers tomorrow. You can always stop it. But it needs to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ABHale

MW, the friend you talked about, did his wife leave him or just had a affair behind his back and got caught. You have to look at the diffences between the two situation. Can the marriage get stronger yes, but only if the two in the marriage are working on it together. Your wife left you, she is breaking the ties she has with you, she is not trying to fix this. How do you R with a wife that does not want to. Your friends wife decided to make the marriage work yours is cutting the ties of the marriage. Big difference.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jdawg2015

No surprise about it either, because once the 180 goes into action the cheater realizes the don't call the shots or have any control of the situation anymore.




bandit.45 said:


> People who have stuck with the 180 always swear by it later.


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## mrwalters

ABHale said:


> MW, the friend you talked about, did his wife leave him or just had a affair behind his back and got caught. You have to look at the diffences between the two situation. Can the marriage get stronger yes, but only if the two in the marriage are working on it together. Your wife left you, she is breaking the ties she has with you, she is not trying to fix this. How do you R with a wife that does not want to. Your friends wife decided to make the marriage work yours is cutting the ties of the marriage. Big difference.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


My friends wife moved out and into her own place. She strung him along for a long time too. He was often deployed and caught her in lies about where she was. 
Mine is now living w her parents after moving out of OP house. Dont know what she is doing and I stopped asking. She does know that I have stopped any pursuit. We'll have to see how this all plays out. 
Her dad does keep in touch w me every once in a while. We were close. 
With her at her parents I feel like the cloud has lifted. Soon it will be a month she has lived w them. 
The 180 is scary and tough to do, but I have to say that I feel like I got a lot of what I lost back through it. 
My wife is now attending church again. Not that that means anything in particular but she would not go when she was in CA w him. 
So far these steps she is taking aren't any towards me, but they aren't leaps and bounds towards him either. 
My new career is picking up now. Things are looking up for me again. 

One thing that has been mentioned before was she may hint or want to talk about things someday. 
And I was warned to be wary of this. I guess when that happens I'll come here for some input.


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## truster

So MW, a couple of questions:

- What is it about this woman that's so much better than another woman that you're willing to take the risk of being further manipulated?
- What's your personal boundary for how long you will keep the candle burning.. what's the cutoff date? Will you stick to it?
- How long was the marriage? 
- Do you feel like divorcing will be viewed poorly by others in your family/social group?


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## ABHale

My bad MW, I thought it was said she was going back after her mother was better. You also mentioned something about a old bf in her home town, is she still talking with him. The thing that's gets me is that her cheating is not your fault. None of us are perfect, we have all done things the wrong way in our marriages. It never gives the WS the right to cheat. It seems you keep beating yourself up for things you did to cause this. You did nothing to cause your wife to cheat. She did it all on her own. I do not believe a WS loves the one they cheat on, I think they can fall in love afterwards. By that time the damage has been done. 

MW I hope the best for you I really do. There is no way I would ever take my wife back after moving in with another man, I would never trust her or believed she loved me after that. The same if I cheat on her. 

Keep with the 180 it will answer the question in the long run. I would also say file for D. If she tries to stay and fix things after the D then she does love you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mrwalters

ABHale said:


> My bad MW, I thought it was said she was going back after her mother was better. You also mentioned something about a old bf in her home town, is she still talking with him. The thing that's gets me is that her cheating is not your fault. None of us are perfect, we have all done things the wrong way in our marriages. It never gives the WS the right to cheat. It seems you keep beating yourself up for things you did to cause this. You did nothing to cause your wife to cheat. She did it all on her own. I do not believe a WS loves the one they cheat on, I think they can fall in love afterwards. By that time the damage has been done.
> 
> MW I hope the best for you I really do. There is no way I would ever take my wife back after moving in with another man, I would never trust her or believed she loved me after that. The same if I cheat on her.
> 
> Keep with the 180 it will answer the question in the long run. I would also say file for D. If she tries to stay and fix things after the D then she does love you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm still sticking by the 180. 
Her dad text me the other day and asked how I was doing. I told him I was out in Vegas at the poolside w friends. Figure this will get back to her. 
It's tough not blaming myself for this. Honestly I know this is how I am supposed to feel, and everyone everywhere has said it. 
I think the harder hit to my self esteem is now having her back at her parents. She had asked me what coming home would look like. This was a month ago. I told her she couldn't move in with me, and I can't see how it could be but it would have to be pieced together. She never responded. After he lack of response I went further into the 180. 
I felt he same way before. Never thought I could forgive cheating or betrayal. But I am still willing to give that a shot if it presents itself. 
I have to say the absolute worst part of this is that I feel that it changed me forever. 
Before this I was quite a sexual person. In our relationship it occurred quite often and I really enjoyed that part of my life. I am certain that is was a big part of who I was, though I never once discussed it with anyone. 
Now I don't have that same desire, and it's ok for the time being but I don't want it to turn into a thing that becomes a problem. I'm probably getting ahead of myself because I know this will take time. 
Visiting w my friends in Vegas was a trip that I really needed. 
The toughest part of this is waiting for her to come around and releasing the reigns while simultaneously questioning if I am doing the right thing.


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## turnera

It'll work out, one way or the other. You'll find the new version of you, wiser, smarter, and more aware of things like this.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER

You're doing better now at handling this then I'll bet you'd ever thought you could. Many here feel the same way.

It's a tough road to travel for sure. It's tough to find out that you were replaced. It's tough when you finally realize that you were left behind, by the person that once vowed to never do any of those things to you.

Now the toughest thing is giving up on the hope(some would say "lost hope") that your WS will see the error in her ways and return to you.

This is going to cause you the most pain and damage from here on out. You've hung onto this hope through everything. No matter what she's told you, or you've found out on your own, that she's has done, and still doing... you still hold on to the hope that she will return to you.

No shame in this. I've been where you are right now. Many here have been and still are where you are right now. I(we) can't tell you with certainty that she won't come back, but I can garranty you that it won't be the reunion that you're hoping it will be. And it's far, far more likely that she'll leave again, or you'll split up again in the future. Given what she's done and how she's acted up to the point, I feel at best that you'd only be prolonging the inevitable...

I know it sounds counter intuitive, but the best chance you now have at ever saving this marriage, is giving up on it. Completely. If she sees that you're moving on without her and SHE is the one that pursues you to get back together, then you'd have a chance. Although I think a smallish chance, a chance none the less.

The worst thing that you can do is sit home, alone and pine for her. Going over all the good times over and over in your head. The best thing you can do is keep your mind occupied with other things. Get out there, meet people. Start a new hobby, pick up an old hobby that you once enjoyed doing. A moving target is harder to hit. Stay in motion.

If you worry that the love you once had for her may die because your starting to put her behind you, don't. That love is no longer really there anymore. At least the version that you once held as true. She sent that love a packing, when she sent herself a packing.

If she does want to come back and you do except her back, just remember - "Things" would never be the "same" again. That gone, never to return. It doesn't mean that it could never be as good, it's just never be the same.

Right now you feel that you still need her. You need to get to the point where you're indifferent about her ever returning to you. Then, if she does want to return, you biggest decision would be, do YOU want her to return.


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## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> Now I don't have that same desire, and it's ok for the time being but I don't want it to turn into a thing that becomes a problem. I'm probably getting ahead of myself because I know this will take time.
> Visiting w my friends in Vegas was a trip that I really needed.
> The toughest part of this is waiting for her to come around and releasing the reigns while simultaneously questioning if I am doing the right thing.


This is normal under your circumstances. 

Your biggest problem is you're waiting around for her????

Consider the marriage over and work on yourself. If she comes back then decide if you want her in your life or move on.

You need the right mindset here. The current marriage is dead.


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## ABHale

I understand a lot of what you are talking about. My wife never cheated as far as I know but spent her time between our kids and her mom and her brother's family. I felt neglected and used as a paycheck. She would never do a date night or weekend get away, did not want to impose on the in-laws. This was a complete change from when we lived out of the area and we were still in the Marine's. We did everything together the first 7 years of our marriage, never stopped dating. I don't think we could have been happier, at least I could not have been. Then I got out and moved back to where M's mom lived and things slowly started to change. I found out later M's brother laid a guilt trip on her which started thing going the way they did. But we are trying to piece things back together now. 

With what you are saying about the guilt. Just like me and the things I have done wrong in my marriage you are guilty for the things you have done to hurt your marriage and cause problems. You are not guilty in any way shape or form for the affair MW, that is completely on your wife. Take the time to fix the things in you that you can, be a better husband and person in the future. You can not fix what your wife has done, she has to if she wants. I guess that is what I have been trying to say. You can not fix the affair, your wife has to when and if she is willing and able. But you can fix the things in your life until that time. Stay strong MW.


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## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> I'm still sticking by the 180.
> Her dad text me the other day and asked how I was doing. I told him I was out in Vegas at the poolside w friends. Figure this will get back to her.
> It's tough not blaming myself for this. Honestly I know this is how I am supposed to feel, and everyone everywhere has said it.
> I think the harder hit to my self esteem is now having her back at her parents. She had asked me what coming home would look like. This was a month ago. I told her she couldn't move in with me, and I can't see how it could be but it would have to be pieced together. She never responded. After he lack of response I went further into the 180.
> I felt he same way before. Never thought I could forgive cheating or betrayal. But I am still willing to give that a shot if it presents itself.
> I have to say the absolute worst part of this is that I feel that it changed me forever.
> Before this I was quite a sexual person. In our relationship it occurred quite often and I really enjoyed that part of my life. I am certain that is was a big part of who I was, though I never once discussed it with anyone.
> Now I don't have that same desire, and it's ok for the time being but I don't want it to turn into a thing that becomes a problem. I'm probably getting ahead of myself because I know this will take time.
> Visiting w my friends in Vegas was a trip that I really needed.
> The toughest part of this is waiting for her to come around and releasing the reigns while simultaneously questioning if I am doing the right thing.


I had the same problems with the sex thing after the divorce. Just didn't want sex again for a while. It happened a couple of times but just gave me no sense of fulfillment or satisfaction. My tank was just as empty as it was before.
But I met a good woman, and things are great again. Don't worry about it. Give it time.

If you will stop pining for her at home, and start looking to date people you admire and respect, you will likely forget all about your wife who deserves neither.

MW, you have just got to let her go. It's almost 100% chance that if she returns, it will just be to start this process of pain and deceit all over again. Let her go. There are other people in the world than your wife. She has shown you she is not what you want now.

Let her go. Loose. Scrammo, vamooseky


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## becareful

You see @Lonely husband 42301's wife? Now, that's a truly remorseful woman. Your wife hasn't shown a tenth of that remorse.


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## mrwalters

becareful said:


> You see @Lonely husband 42301's wife? Now, that's a truly remorseful woman. Your wife hasn't shown a tenth of that remorse.


Wow, I have read a few dozen pages into it and all I can say is wow. I wish I had done a lot of what he did.
He acted very quickly. 
My wife left about 2 weeks after i discovered it. I did expose it to a few of our close friends and her parents, but I did not act like he did at first. I wish I had it in me at the time, it would have helped me emotionally.
She is still asking about her cats, etc. Texting my mom about them and not understandign why she isnt getting any reply. i called her today but of course it went to VM. I left a message, not yelling or anything like that, but I did tell her I need the separation paperwork back. She just ignores it, like I never said anything.
I don't know exactly why. I feel she is scared to get divorced, but she doesnt know what to do. I think she feels like if she signs it and gets it back to me the next step is divorce. 
One other thing, a long while back I had asked her if the OM's mom knew she was married because she commented on the cute couple on her FB. Part of me wants to send our last wedding invitation to OM's mom congratulating her on raising such a great son who would sleep with a married woman.
Now this may be too late to do, and really won't bring about anything good, but it has been a thought. It's what the old me would have done.


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## ABHale

As long as it is to expose to stop the affair, go for it. Start exposing it to everyone. Or just pm the OM's mother and say "ya, she's my wife".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Evinrude58

Sad thing is, you really have to focus on letting her go. She WAS your wife. Now she's just another lousy cheater that sleeps with other men to validate her low self esteem.
Stop feeling like you're losing something. She's not worth it. Move on to something better, letting her feel your wake wash over her as you pass her by.

Don't let it happen. MAKE yourself move forward in your mind and leave HER behind. This is what she deserves.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SunCMars

Evinrude58 said:


> Sad thing is, you really have to focus on letting her go. She WAS your wife. Now she's just another lousy cheater that sleeps with other men to validate her low self esteem.
> Stop feeling like you're losing something. She's not worth it. Move on to something better, letting her feel your *wake wash *over her as you pass her by.
> 
> Don't let it happen. MAKE yourself move forward in your mind and leave HER behind. This is what she deserves.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


There goes the Evinrude OB motor talking about wake wash. We now know where his fondest thoughts reside...atop the waves.


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## TX-SC

SunCMars said:


> There goes the Evinrude OB motor talking about wake wash. We now know where his fondest thoughts reside...atop the waves.


Nothing wrong with that!


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## mrwalters

So yesterday after waiting for some sort of response on the separation documents I called and left her a message asking her to please sign them and get them back to me. Then i went out to the beach, gym, and for a few beers. I'm sure she knows because of mutual friends, etc. This morning I get a text from her saying "I hate you!!"
it's not my intent to post my reply here as a blog, but to get some sort of feedback on what i am/am not doing right.

It's not my intention to destroy her. I have been doing my best to move forward in a way that is tactful, respectable, and will leave me feeling good about the situation. i also don't want to burn everything down to the ground and regret it later.

my reply
----
Well. You can hate me if you want to. You have done a whole lot of things to show me you hate me over the past year.
I don't hate you. I hate how you hurt me, I wish you didn't but that's just not the case.
You only seem to care about yourself. Had you cared about me you wouldn't have done what you did.
So on top of you hating me I also had to deal with knowing that the person I married ran off with another man. You did that. I didn't make you. It wasn't an accident. You chose to leave me to be with someone else. Hate me if you want to. I didn't abandon you. You did this to you and me. All I could do was watch you do it and wish you didn't.
You plotted and planned it. You even blame it on me and said you are a victim of your affair.
The real victim is your husband who was being cheated on, lied to, and betrayed.
With all that said I don't hate you. I hate what you did and how you made me feel.

You telling me you hate me makes a whole lot more sense than telling me you love me while cheating on me.


I'm the one who had to find out the person I married was cheating on me and lying to me.
I even stayed by you because you said you wanted to work on things. I quit my job and did everything I could in order to give you and I a chance.
You chose to continue to lie to me. You didn't care about anyone except you and OM.
You chose to leave your husband and marriage for greener pastures. No one forced you.
Figure your **** out. Tell me you hate me all you want to. Lie to me, cheat on me, abandon me, leave me alone to fend for myself when all I wanted was you, and to watch you run off with someone who you cheated on me for.
I didn't throw you under the bus. You did that to me.
I am sorry for not meeting your needs. Guess what, no one gets all their needs met all the time. But that is no excuse to lie and cheat.
If you didn't want to be married you just had to say so. You didn't have to cheat on me and pretend to love me while being with someone else. You are still only so concerned with yourself that you don't even care what you put me through. No one, and I mean no one from your family was there for me through this. And I still didn't abandon any of you. I'm still there, even if it's for the tiniest thing of sending flowers or to help your dad out w a computer thing.
And it's ok, because they didn't do this.
So hate me if you want. I still love you and your whole family, but I am not going to allow myself to be hurt by you anymore. You've done enough of that for two lifetimes. I wish it was all a bad dream, but it is not. It's real. It's more real for me than you can ever imagine, you wouldn't be telling me you hate me after what you did.

and i left it at that for her to chew on.

anything I should have said or done differently? Remember, I'm not trying to get a divorce. I'm trying to have the best chance at a R if that were to come around and should D happen then it happens and was unavoidable.


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## naiveonedave

Don't stoop to her level. I am sure it felt good to tell her off, but try to not talk to her except through lawyers. You are trying to be tough and nice her back at the same time. You need to detach and get the legal ball moving.


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## turnera

eh, it's not that bad. Pretty logical, actually. 

Now pull back and just talk about divorce.


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## truster

You said your piece.. it's out there. Now it's time to limit discussion to moving the divorce along. Resist the urge to keep revisiting the well and trying to reason and explain your feelings.. the 180 is your best chance now.


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## mrwalters

turnera said:


> eh, it's not that bad. Pretty logical, actually.
> 
> Now pull back and just talk about divorce.


None of this seems logical to me.
But in some ways it is better to hear that than to hear how much she loves and cares for me.. all the while she is having an affair but still doesnt know what she is doing, confused, hurt, etc.
I think she is just upset that I am showing that I am moving on. Anytime in the past when I did that she would try to lure me back in, but then pull away again.
Stupid game.


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## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> None of this seems logical to me.
> But in some ways it is better to hear that than to hear how much she loves and cares for me.. all the while she is having an affair but still doesnt know what she is doing, confused, hurt, etc.
> *I think she is just upset that I am showing that I am moving on.* Anytime in the past when I did that she would try to lure me back in, but then pull away again.
> Stupid game.


Showing that eventually you MIGHT move on, you mean.
But yes, this.

You need to just stop. Every time you write her a letter, she knows she has you. Gotta stop. Detach. Move on.


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## Be smart

My friend you have to stop with this silly letteres. You are only making it worse for you. 

I tell you once Divorce her and be happy but if you want to stay with her then you should switch your tactics. 

You dont beg her because you never cheated and you never left her for a Year. Blame your wife.
Once you realize this you can start working on yourself.

Your wife now sees you as a weak man (I am sorry for saying this) but you let her have an Affair for so long. You still blame yourself and you still play to her tunes. She is doing everything she wants,because she knows there is no consequences for her actions and she realy knows you will take her back no matter what.

Best wishes to you.


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## Tron

The victim chair is so soft and warm and fuzzy. Feels so good!

Just don't make a habit of it MrW. 

She got you to respond...which is exactly what she wanted. You let it out, let her have it, now let it go. 

Try not to do it again.


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## Evinrude58

It would be nice if logic and reason meant a dang thing to these cheaters. It doesn't. You're only an option now. You made yourself one by neglecting to act.

She's not signing anything. Now what are you gonna do?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

Mrwalters

Your wife is a coward. Realize that.

And it is ok to love your wayward wife. That is quite normal.

What you could have texted her is this:

"I love you so much that I am giving you is the gift of freedom. Freedom to do whatever you want.
Freedom to make any decision without any thought of me making you feel guilty.
Freedom to be with whomever you choose to be with.
The only thing is this freedom no longer includes me as your husband.

After all this what your actions have shown me what you truly desire."

Then tell her how many days she has to send you the separation papers before you cite abandonment and go straight to divorce.

Glad to see you waking up, using your balls and making the conscious decision to start being happy again.

Life is too short to let her play games with you. 

Tell her to grow up.

H!


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## mrwalters

happyman64 said:


> Mrwalters
> 
> Your wife is a coward. Realize that.
> 
> And it is ok to love your wayward wife. That is quite normal.
> 
> What you could have texted her is this:
> 
> "I love you so much that I am giving you is the gift of freedom. Freedom to do whatever you want.
> Freedom to make any decision without any thought of me making you feel guilty.
> Freedom to be with whomever you choose to be with.
> The only thing is this freedom no longer includes me as your husband.
> 
> After all this what your actions have shown me what you truly desire."
> 
> Then tell her how many days she has to send you the separation papers before you cite abandonment and go straight to divorce.
> 
> Glad to see you waking up, using your balls and making the conscious decision to start being happy again.
> 
> Life is too short to let her play games with you.
> 
> Tell her to grow up.
> 
> H!


This out of a lot of the things said makes a lot of sense.
I figured my 180 would be to tell her off because i have not done that in the way that I stated above until now.
But i suppose she probably already knows all of what i said. She just likes to pretend that she doesnt or that what she did did not happen. It was crazy, the day after she left she send me a text asking me to do certain things. i told her no and she asked if i was mad at her. It was the beginning of her craziness.
I do hear what you said, and I have to agree that is probably what i should have said. I won't push the issue until she tries to talk again, I'm not going to initiate that conversation.


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## Chaparral

I hate you. Your answer...... I know, actions speak louder than words. From the way you have treated me you've hated me a long time.


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## J3st3r

Your only answer to that message should have been _"clearly"_. Nothing more and nothing less. I have lurked this forums for many years. Have read the majority of situations that have been posted, and I post next to never, but this is what I see.

Your in this limbo situation because of your indecision act. Your separation agreement should have been divorce papers. Pro-tip, divorces can be stopped as they take along time to be finalized. You still handle WW with emotion, whether its anger or love, its emotion and that is how she knows she still has you wrapped around her finger. We all know you love her, we all know you care for her, but she needs to see indifference from you. If divorce papers and a total lack of concern from you doesn't it snap her back, then she wasnt coming back to begin with and you can start your healing process.

I believe this was posted early in your thread, but I have never seen a WW niced back into marriage.


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## Marc878

From reading your story you never truly exposed. Like most you were afraid.

Afraid you might lose her. In reality you already did. The only weapon you really had you never used. 

You continue to banter back and forth because you still don't get it. All that sh!t is never going to bring her back. You're only chance was to go dark and move on. I don't think you have it in you to do so. (The 180 means no contact and detach.)

Which means more limbo. Her affair is on her how you've handled this is on you. 

It is your life so continue to talk/write but do nothing as you've done. You are getting the same results. Nothing.

Why are you here?


----------



## truster

Hope Vegas revitalized you a bit, MW.

Have you put any more thought into what a hard date would be for calling it quits?


----------



## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> From reading your story you never truly exposed. Like most you were afraid.
> 
> Afraid you might lose her. In reality you already did. The only weapon you really had you never used.
> 
> You continue to banter back and forth because you still don't get it. All that sh!t is never going to bring her back. You're only chance was to go dark and move on. I don't think you have it in you to do so. (The 180 means no contact and detach.)
> 
> Which means more limbo. Her affair is on her how you've handled this is on you.
> 
> It is your life so continue to talk/write but do nothing as you've done. You are getting the same results. Nothing.
> 
> Why are you here?


Looking back on it I should have exposed to more. It would have made it harder for her to hide it and live in her fantasy, etc.
She did finally send back the signed separation papers, I just got them today.
In some ways I was hoping she wouldnt sign them and it would have made her question what she was doing.

I realize to many of you that I sound lost, and I probably am since I have not experienced any of this before. What i can't wrap my head around is her stringing me along the way she did.
I do get that desperation is a stinky cologne. I have fought back trying to contact her or ask her what she is doing. 
As long as she stays in AK and not with him then I can deal with the situation and I don't feel like I need to file right away. However I know that if she does go back to CA then it is a waste of time not to. She seems to have no problem telling me in advance when she goes up there and when she is leaving CA. But when she goes back its some sort of secret that has to be decoded.
I suppose if she could have a real talk with me without all of the secrets and lies then I could more readily put this behind me.
Is this typical behavior for some women?
I have a friend who is a serial cheater. I can read him like a book and know his thoughts before his actions show it.
With my wife this all came out of nowhere and it makes little sense.
She claims up and down she does not love him or see a future with him. That she can only envision a future with me. Her actions however don't show any of that.
I'm not sad about it like I used to be, just confused and would like some profound knowledge dropped on me that will enable me to understand this.
How did she become such a coward when it comes to telling me the truth.


----------



## Marc878

She's cake eating and you are enabling it with you inaction. Her actions tell more than her words.

You should have figured this out by now. Cheaters lie a lot.

Talking to her and writing letters have gotten you what? Nothing that I can see.

I suspect you're in fear of losing her. It looks to me like that has already happened. You are just in denial of it.


----------



## mrwalters

Marc878 said:


> She's cake eating and you are enabling it with you inaction. Her actions tell more than her words.
> 
> You should have figured this out by now. Cheaters lie a lot.
> 
> Talking to her and writing letters have gotten you what? Nothing that I can see.
> 
> I suspect you're in fear of losing her. It looks to me like that has already happened. You are just in denial of it.


Thats true. The part that i can't wrap my head around is how she went from being so truthful to lying and cake eating. Its a behavior I have never seen before in her. Is there some sort of reading material or similar that explains it. I think if I understood it than it would make it a lot easier. 
You are probably right, I did lose her. The week before she started her PA and was in her EA she looked and acted really different. I have pictures on my phone of us, and it is clear as day her expressions were different, probably something i would only pick up on but it was obvious.
So if I have already lost her than there is nothing more to lose except to keep myself in limbo. And to be honest i have been doing well for myself and I'm not upset except for when I think about her. At this point divorcing right now or in a month probably won't make any difference.
If it were my guess, she signed the separation papers the day she left to go back to CA from AK again and she cannot say where she is at to me. 
I do want to know, but I also don't want to ask her for fear of sounding needy or pathetic if she is still in AK. 
If i knew she was in CA then I would send the divorce papers. The people who know are her parents, and I doubt they will tell me straight out for fear of getting in the middle of it all, or whatever the reason.


----------



## turnera

Or...you could just stop waiting for the princess to come back to her senses and just file NOW and get it over with.

If she ever wanted to be with you, _you would know_.


----------



## mrwalters

turnera said:


> Or...you could just stop waiting for the princess to come back to her senses and just file NOW and get it over with.
> 
> If she ever wanted to be with you, _you would know_.


Very true. that one is for certain. If she wanted to be with me she would have tried to make that clear to me. 
On a different note I have been able to look on the better side of all of this and i do see a future without her now.


----------



## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> Thats true. The part that i can't wrap my head around is how she went from being so truthful to lying and cake eating. Its a behavior I have never seen before in her. Is there some sort of reading material or similar that explains it. I think if I understood it than it would make it a lot easier.
> You are probably right, I did lose her. The week before she started her PA and was in her EA she looked and acted really different. I have pictures on my phone of us, and it is clear as day her expressions were different, probably something i would only pick up on but it was obvious.
> So if I have already lost her than there is nothing more to lose except to keep myself in limbo. And to be honest i have been doing well for myself and I'm not upset except for when I think about her. At this point divorcing right now or in a month probably won't make any difference.
> *If it were my guess, she signed the separation papers the day she left to go back to CA from AK again and she cannot say where she is at to me. *
> I do want to know, but I also don't want to ask her for fear of sounding needy or pathetic if she is still in AK.
> *If i knew she was in CA then I would send the divorce papers. *The people who know are her parents, and I doubt they will tell me straight out for fear of getting in the middle of it all, or whatever the reason.


Again you are allowing yourself excuses to not take any action. If, if , if.

All you're doing is continuing in your old ways. Which is why you have no closure or course of action. 

This is all on you. What would No More Mr Nice Guy do?

If you're content in living the limbo life and wanting no future you're doing a great job at it.


----------



## Marc878

IMO you've wasted more than enough time talking about this.

Life/time is something you never get back.

If she gave a rats azz about you she wouldn't be doing this sh!t.

I wouldn't put with this crap.


----------



## Acoa

mrwalters said:


> Thats true. The part that i can't wrap my head around is how she went from being so truthful to lying and cake eating. Its a behavior I have never seen before in her. Is there some sort of reading material or similar that explains it. I think if I understood it than it would make it a lot easier.


Sounds a lot like my XW. Only in retrospect, she had been hiding a lot for a long time. 

When a person cheats, but sees themselves as a 'good' person. It causes a moral dilemma. They deal with this by either rewriting reality to justify the behavior, or by disassociating the behavior. It becomes a separate thing that they build a wall between. When she talks to you, she can only live with you, but behind your back, what does she say/think? 

Look back on other events, unrelated to the affair. Knowing what you know now, there is likely some kind of pattern. With my ex, she always talked about 'dark thoughts' and having a 'dark side' that scared her. She was attracted to me when I had a 'bad boy' image, but as I matured and became a productive adult and good provider for our children she got bored. Your story is likely different, but I bet there is a pattern if you open your eyes to it.


----------



## BobSimmons

Sheesh still married?

Be back when this hits page 78 and OP has reached the stage of looking into lawyers but still not quite ready to divorce...


----------



## MattMatt

badmemory said:


> OP,
> 
> You have conditioned your wife for so long, to believe you'll be there waiting for her; I'm sure she won't be easily convinced otherwise.
> 
> Every time you communicate with her; every day she doesn't get served with divorce papers - it just enforces that belief that you are her good ole reliable backup plan. She probably thinks she could wait until you had a pen in your hand, signing the final papers and she could talk you in to letting her come back.
> 
> And I also truly believe that if you did allow her back, she would have no expectations or intention of accepting any consequences for what she's done.
> 
> *MOVE. ON. WITH. YOUR. LIFE.*
> 
> *STOP. TALKING. TO. HER. *
> 
> *EXPEDITE. THE. DIVORCE.*
> 
> Where is your anger?


He doesn't have to be angry. Just resolute with his decisions.


----------



## mrwalters

So.
I got the papers back today. 
Manned up and asked her flat out if she was in CA or AK. 
She replied immediately about how she was in CA but was planning on going back to AK. 
We texted. She got into a wreck w her car as she was driving in CA. 
After that I gave it an hour and we talked on the phone. 
I asked her what her plans were. If she was sleeping w him. When she said no but that doesn't mean she won't in the future I snapped. 
I told her in no uncertain terms we were getting a divorce. 
I also went into it with her how she led me on. How she has been acting. And how she once had the opportunity to return. 
I am pretty pissed I let it go this long. 
But it has been said. 
Mostly pissed I believed her BS and cake eating.


----------



## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> So.
> I got the papers back today.
> Manned up and asked her flat out if she was in CA or AK.
> She replied immediately about how she was in CA but was planning on going back to AK.
> We texted. She got into a wreck w her car as she was driving in CA.
> After that I gave it an hour and we talked on the phone.
> I asked her what her plans were. If she was sleeping w him. When she said no but that doesn't mean she won't in the future I snapped.
> I told her in no uncertain terms we were getting a divorce.
> I also went into it with her how she led me on. How she has been acting. And how she once had the opportunity to return.
> I am pretty pissed I let it go this long.
> But it has been said.
> Mostly pissed I believed her BS and cake eating.


Now you know where you stand.

Man up and File or you'll will be awarded the Doormat Of The Year.


----------



## Evinrude58

How can you honestly say she led you on?
Geez, she moved out and lived with another man. That's pretty straightforward. She's back in California from ALASKA. You asked if she's banging him? Uh, yeah, she is.

Are you really going to file for divorce, or will you falter and find a reason to put it off another month, just to see if she is really serious about banging the dude she's moved back to Cali for and banged in the past but not banging yet according to her?

Divorce her. Get mad. Get her for abandonment and adultery of you can, so it's on paper what she is.

File and get it done so you can move on and be happy. She's not the only womAn in the world. You just think she is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GROUNDPOUNDER

Stevie Wonder could have seen this one coming.

You really can't be surprised when you confirmed that she was doing, what she's been doing, since the first time she laid down with this guy.

Yes, it's easier to see and except it, with me(us) being on the outside, looking in. With no emotional influences, no personal attachment. But it almost always turns out the same way, every time.

This is why a$$holes like me are seemingly so hard line on BS that we just know are going to get burnt and burnt again by their WS's.

I'd rather have you get p!ssed at me if it'll help you avoid something like what just happened to you.

The actors and scenery may change, but the play is almost always the same.

You may think that some of us are jaded, or even bitter when we tell you something that you don't want to believe, or even want to hear - Jaded and bitter both come from ones experiences.

Sometimes you're better of learning from others experiences, then having live and learn from your own.

I've been where you are right now. She's already moved on. You should do the same. It sucks, it hurts, but if you don't try to move on right now, I can almost guarantee you that the phrase "I should have divorced her the first time she did this." will be uttered by you in the months/years to come. 





mrwalters said:


> So.
> I got the papers back today.
> Manned up and asked her flat out if she was in CA or AK.
> She replied immediately about how she was in CA but was planning on going back to AK.
> We texted. She got into a wreck w her car as she was driving in CA.
> After that I gave it an hour and we talked on the phone.
> I asked her what her plans were. If she was sleeping w him. When she said no but that doesn't mean she won't in the future I snapped.
> I told her in no uncertain terms we were getting a divorce.
> I also went into it with her how she led me on. How she has been acting. And how she once had the opportunity to return.
> I am pretty pissed I let it go this long.
> But it has been said.
> Mostly pissed I believed her BS and cake eating.


----------



## thenub

I watched a documentary last week which reminded me of this thread. 
A mother chimpanzee dragging around her dead baby for days. She just refused to believe her offspring was dead.
You @mrwalters are that chimpanzee. 
The mother finally realized her young one wasn't going to come back to life. 
When will you realize your marriage is that baby chimpanzee??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bandit.45

The reason you want to either file for divorce or separation is that she could be running up credit cards or other debt in your name and ruining your credit. Filing for separation or divorce stops that. 

That is why you don't wait to file. There are other type of damage she could be doing to you other than just being a wh0re. 

You need to start using your head.


----------



## Chaparral

Quit being her bi tch. Find out where her new man lives so you will know where to have her served.

Get some pictures on Facebook with some younger prettier girls if you have to pay them.


----------



## mrwalters

Acoa said:


> Sounds a lot like my XW. Only in retrospect, she had been hiding a lot for a long time.
> 
> When a person cheats, but sees themselves as a 'good' person. It causes a moral dilemma. They deal with this by either rewriting reality to justify the behavior, or by disassociating the behavior. It becomes a separate thing that they build a wall between. When she talks to you, she can only live with you, but behind your back, what does she say/think?
> 
> Look back on other events, unrelated to the affair. Knowing what you know now, there is likely some kind of pattern. With my ex, she always talked about 'dark thoughts' and having a 'dark side' that scared her. She was attracted to me when I had a 'bad boy' image, but as I matured and became a productive adult and good provider for our children she got bored. Your story is likely different, but I bet there is a pattern if you open your eyes to it.


This makes a lot of sense. Mine never talked about anything prior to this and honestly I do not see where it came from. I had asked several mutual friends if they ever saw anything and they all were surprised by it too.
It may be that I never fully understand it, and I feel that if I could get a handle on it it will make it easier to move on quicker and put it behind me.
Yesterday was definitely a turning point for me. I had all I could handle and that was it. her telling me she did not want to sign the separation papers but she still did because she knows that I am done with her, etc. 
It's like she is placing it all back on me. When she had left she was texting a mutual friend of our on the plane ride to CA about how she knew I would always leave her and didn't want to be with her, etc.
It doesnt make sense. 
The only thing I can guess is she wants me to chase after her as she is running away. She eluded to this with a mutual friend of ours. He asked me if I would go to CA and get her. I told him that was absurd and it wasn't for me to do. Maybe a pride thing, maybe I realize it is futile and a horrible idea, etc.

So now I am going to go the route of divorce. Before that would have scared the hell out of me, but I am accepting of it.

I see a lot of angry posting on here and reactions. I do get that there is a lot of bitterenss, and I do have mine as well. But I also am not in a horrible spot. One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again. That may very well be the case. There are plenty of women out there, and I have more than a handful chasing after me now. SO eventually a quality one will cross my path.

I don't know how I am going to navigate the divorce. I have a friend who is an attorney but I do not want to involve her in any way and keep the divorce out of any personal friendships or relationships.

I do have the separation papers so it should make it easier for a non contested divorce I'd imagine.

I really wish this wasn't the case but I see no alternative that makes more sense than this.


----------



## BetrayedDad

mrwalters said:


> I asked her what her plans were. If she was sleeping w him. When she said no but that doesn't mean she won't in the future I snapped.


NO RESPECT for you at all... THIS is the woman you pine over?!?

She's a straight up POS and you disgust her with your spinelessness. 



mrwalters said:


> I told her in no uncertain terms we were getting a divorce.


IT'S ABOUT FVCKING TIME. First step on the long road of your doormat recovery. 

You couldn't acted more pathetic. Time to rise up my friend and start being a man.


----------



## Marc878

mrwalters said:


> This makes a lot of sense. Mine never talked about anything prior to this and honestly I do not see where it came from. I had asked several mutual friends if they ever saw anything and they all were surprised by it too.
> It may be that I never fully understand it, and I feel that if I could get a handle on it it will make it easier to move on quicker and put it behind me.
> Yesterday was definitely a turning point for me. I had all I could handle and that was it. her telling me she did not want to sign the separation papers but she still did because she knows that I am done with her, etc.
> It's like she is placing it all back on me. When she had left she was texting a mutual friend of our on the plane ride to CA about how she knew I would always leave her and didn't want to be with her, etc.
> It doesnt make sense.
> The only thing I can guess is she wants me to chase after her as she is running away. She eluded to this with a mutual friend of ours. He asked me if I would go to CA and get her. I told him that was absurd and it wasn't for me to do. Maybe a pride thing, maybe I realize it is futile and a horrible idea, etc.
> 
> So now I am going to go the route of divorce. Before that would have scared the hell out of me, but I am accepting of it.
> 
> *I see a lot of angry posting on here and reactions. I do get that there is a lot of bitterenss, and I do have mine as well*. But I also am not in a horrible spot. One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again. That may very well be the case. There are plenty of women out there, and I have more than a handful chasing after me now. SO eventually a quality one will cross my path.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to navigate the divorce. I have a friend who is an attorney but I do not want to involve her in any way and keep the divorce out of any personal friendships or relationships.
> 
> I do have the separation papers so it should make it easier for a non contested divorce I'd imagine.
> 
> I really wish this wasn't the case but I see no alternative that makes more sense than this.


It's because it's painfull to read. Seeing the non ending wallowing in limbo and denial of who she is. 

most come here blind but get it fairly quick. You've drug this out to long. Do you finally get it?


----------



## bandit.45

mrwalters said:


> This makes a lot of sense. Mine never talked about anything prior to this and honestly I do not see where it came from. I had asked several mutual friends if they ever saw anything and they all were surprised by it too.
> It may be that I never fully understand it, and I feel that if I could get a handle on it it will make it easier to move on quicker and put it behind me.
> Yesterday was definitely a turning point for me. I had all I could handle and that was it. her telling me she did not want to sign the separation papers but she still did because she knows that I am done with her, etc.
> It's like she is placing it all back on me. When she had left she was texting a mutual friend of our on the plane ride to CA about how she knew I would always leave her and didn't want to be with her, etc.
> It doesnt make sense.
> The only thing I can guess is she wants me to chase after her as she is running away. She eluded to this with a mutual friend of ours. He asked me if I would go to CA and get her. I told him that was absurd and it wasn't for me to do. Maybe a pride thing, maybe I realize it is futile and a horrible idea, etc.
> 
> So now I am going to go the route of divorce. Before that would have scared the hell out of me, but I am accepting of it.
> 
> I see a lot of angry posting on here and reactions. I do get that there is a lot of bitterenss, and I do have mine as well. But I also am not in a horrible spot. One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again. That may very well be the case. There are plenty of women out there, and I have more than a handful chasing after me now. SO eventually a quality one will cross my path.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to navigate the divorce. I have a friend who is an attorney but I do not want to involve her in any way and keep the divorce out of any personal friendships or relationships.
> 
> I do have the separation papers so it should make it easier for a non contested divorce I'd imagine.
> 
> I really wish this wasn't the case but I see no alternative that makes more sense than this.


QUIT TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF IT!!!!!!!

STOP IT ALREADY...

What is done is done. She is a cheater and she left you. The WHYs no longer matter. You could lock yourself in a room with her for a year and you will never get all the answers you want from her, mainly because she does not know the answers herself. 

Stop trying to analyze and start acting to protect yourself. Every day that you delay getting that divorce paperwork filed is one more day for her to run up debt using your credit. Who is paying for her upkeep and all this traveling she is doing? Is she working? If not, where do you think she is getting the money when she is not freeloading off her boyfriends? 

Credit cards. In your name and hers.


----------



## Nucking Futs

mrwalters said:


> This makes a lot of sense. Mine never talked about anything prior to this and honestly I do not see where it came from. I had asked several mutual friends if they ever saw anything and they all were surprised by it too.
> It may be that I never fully understand it, and I feel that if I could get a handle on it it will make it easier to move on quicker and put it behind me.
> Yesterday was definitely a turning point for me. I had all I could handle and that was it. her telling me she did not want to sign the separation papers but she still did because she knows that I am done with her, etc.
> It's like she is placing it all back on me. When she had left she was texting a mutual friend of our on the plane ride to CA about how she knew I would always leave her and didn't want to be with her, etc.
> It doesnt make sense.
> The only thing I can guess is she wants me to chase after her as she is running away. She eluded to this with a mutual friend of ours. He asked me if I would go to CA and get her. I told him that was absurd and it wasn't for me to do. Maybe a pride thing, maybe I realize it is futile and a horrible idea, etc.
> 
> So now I am going to go the route of divorce. Before that would have scared the hell out of me, but I am accepting of it.
> 
> I see a lot of angry posting on here and reactions. I do get that there is a lot of bitterenss, and I do have mine as well. But I also am not in a horrible spot. *One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again.* That may very well be the case. There are plenty of women out there, and I have more than a handful chasing after me now. SO eventually a quality one will cross my path.
> 
> I don't know how I am going to navigate the divorce. I have a friend who is an attorney but I do not want to involve her in any way and keep the divorce out of any personal friendships or relationships.
> 
> I do have the separation papers so it should make it easier for a non contested divorce I'd imagine.
> 
> I really wish this wasn't the case but I see no alternative that makes more sense than this.


You should be afraid you _will_ end up with another woman like her.


----------



## Acoa

mrwalters said:


> Yesterday was definitely a turning point for me. I had all I could handle and that was it. her telling me she did not want to sign the separation papers but she still did because she knows that I am done with her, etc.
> It's like she is placing it all back on me.


She can only place it back on you if you allow her to. She left to be with another man. She ran. Some people like to create storms then complain when it rains. You sound like your eyes are open now. It's not pleasant, but it is stabilizing. When I started to see my XW through the lens of her action and stopped listening to her words, the world started to make sense again. 



mrwalters said:


> One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again. That may very well be the case. There are plenty of women out there, and I have more than a handful chasing after me now. SO eventually a quality one will cross my path.


I hope you don't find some one like her. I hope you find someone who is healthy for you, and cares for you. I can say from my own experience there are a lot of quality women out there. As you get older, there seem to be more quality women than men. Just be careful for a while. Have fun, go out. Date many women for a while. Don't fall for the rebound. Take your time. Get to know someone, and have your divorce well into your rear view mirror before you commit again.



mrwalters said:


> I do have the separation papers so it should make it easier for a non contested divorce I'd imagine.


You will want to check the laws in your state. The separation agreement will likely rule the division of assets. But they don't typically affect 'cause' for divorce. She could still fight that saying her intent is to reconcile. Find a good lawyer, and I agree, not your friend. You could ask your friend for a referral. 

You want the best lawyer you can find. I hired the best in my county (and it's a big city), she wasn't cheap. But she was worth every penny. Made sure every angle was covered. She cost more per hour, but in the end, her forethought and knowledge of the courts made everything go smooth. We had one day in court and the number of billable hours were much less than if we had to go back and forth. The key is to go for what's fair based on the duration of your marriage and best for your family.


----------



## Herschel

mrwalters said:


> One of my previous fears was that i wouldn't find someone like her again.


This is a common misconception we ALL fall in. Seriously, one I fight with right now on certain levels. 

There is no "like her" anymore. The "her" you knew is dead. This woman isn't "her". She is a copy of "her", but with changes. You see a lot of "her" in her, but she isn't the same. So, even though you may NEVER find someone like "her" again, the person she is now is NOT "her". She is gone forever and the only thing this new person would do is make you yearn for the "her" that is gone FOREVER.


----------



## mrwalters

Herschel said:


> This is a common misconception we ALL fall in. Seriously, one I fight with right now on certain levels.
> 
> There is no "like her" anymore. The "her" you knew is dead. This woman isn't "her". She is a copy of "her", but with changes. You see a lot of "her" in her, but she isn't the same. So, even though you may NEVER find someone like "her" again, the person she is now is NOT "her". She is gone forever and the only thing this new person would do is make you yearn for the "her" that is gone FOREVER.


This is probably true. Too much has happened.


----------



## happyman64

Mr W.

Your wife is a repeat liar.

File for divorce so you can move on like she has already done.

Stop listening to your heart and start using your head.

HM


----------



## cgiles

I read your whole post, and I think you fit into this :

"Nice Guys are concerned about looking good and doing it "right." They are happiest when they are
making others happy. Nice Guys avoid conflict like the plague and will go to great lengths to avoid
upsetting anyone. In general, Nice Guys are peaceful and generous. Nice Guys are especially concerned
about pleasing women and being different from other men. In a nutshell, Nice Guys believe that if they
are good, giving, and caring, they will in return be happy, loved, and fulfilled."

It's from this book : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


----------



## mrwalters

Yes. this is what I intend to do. I will file for divorce.

Not to dismiss what everyone has said, but it was a long road that I had to navigate to get here. Had I filed the day she left and we did divorce i would have always wondered if it could have been saved. I won't have that on my conscience for the rest of my life.
I don't have a time machine, there are no do-overs.

i did speak with some good friends yesterday. They talked me out of doing some rash emotional things. I wanted to slam her on social media and let everyone know, fly there and beat the snot out of that guy, etc.
Two of the most level headed guys I know told me to just turn around and walk the other way.

I told another close friend of mine about her getting into a car accident while texting with me yesterday about it all. He thought it was funny and she deserved it, etc. 
It made me realize how people handle things differently. In no way did I get any joy out of her pain or sorrow. I know that this isnt easy on her and she is emotionally drained as well. as her husband I felt i needed to protect her from most everything. Being her advocate and providing were top priorities for me. Until all of this I never thought of it that way, it was just part of our life together.
The immediate disruption to all of that by her cheating, it was incomprehensible. I'm guessing it messed her up too because she became and did things I never seen in her before. Before this there were no secrets, no lies, and 100% transparency.
When all of this happened it became too much to deal with. I wanted to believe that there was part of her that was still in there. At least there for me and when she offered morsels of it I bit.

I do see all of your points. Why hold onto her with a piece of paper that says we are married. She is off with someone else, that piece of paper has not stopped her in doing any of this. It was my hope that somehow when she came out of her "fog" that the piece of paper would still tie and unite us together. And honestly, that still might be the case. I don't think they will work out. 
But..
At this point I don't care to wait. Before when she would call or text me that she missed me, send old pictures and things that kept me holding onto the past. It probably kept her holding onto it too. But it did not stop her from doing what she was doing and it enabled her to believe that she could keep me while also leaving me.
When people asked her about where she was and what she was doing she would be elusive and leave them with the impression we were separated. It wasnt until i told them she was seeing someone else did they see the full scope of what was happening. Many of my Army buddies saw this before in their friends marriages.
It's such a shame. I know that it was salvageable. I know that many here have been betrayed and learned a tough lesson. I have a pretty good suspicion that the way in which I write or talk about all of this makes me sound cowardly, and in fact that may be the case. But that is neither here nor there. A lot of what i say here stays here and it keeps me from saying it to her.

As far as all the comments about her taking money, opening CC's, and watching my assets. Thank you for that advice, I know that it is to help me. That may have been a concern for others, but it is not a concern for me. She is not spending any of my money, and as much as I would like to prove this fact I don't feel I need to. I know this will not be a problem and I would like to leave it at that.

Had I come off stronger in my words on this thread I probably wouldn't be seen as a doormat. In my marriage the dynamics were lopsided and I had most of the power. in fact, it could be argued that I had the majority of all of it for too long. This affair in some ways may be the result of that. I'm not excusing her, but I have been analytical most of my life and I have a good ability to step back and put myself in someone else shoes. I have been trying to put myself in hers. I don't know how to begin to as I loved her too much to do what she did. Her reality was different from mine. Her affair has taken so much out of me that I am willing to forgo the marriage. I'm sure the time of me being gone, her being lonely, her feeling under-appreciated left a hole inside of her that allowed for this to happen. Damn I want to hate her, I really do. It would make it so much easier 
Somewhere in the dynamics of our marriage things got broken down and she broke because she was more emotionally susceptible. Once the affair started everything eroded. 
I falsely hoped that by hanging on i could save it. I don't regret it. i do regret all of the hurt it caused me along the way but I was going to go through that one way or another after ending a 10 year union.
Most of the damage came from her cheating and then lying and all of the elusive behavior. Had she just left I could have grappled with that easier. Thats hwere we differ. Before I start anything else and move on I will end our marriage.
F'in sucks, but it is my reality.

I'm not going to lie, I do hope we can make it work. But if she is not willing to fight for our marriage and leave OM then there is no reason to stay in the mariage. She will probably do the same thing with the divorce papers. Sign them and say she didn't want to, that she knew i wanted it and I wanted her to be gone. But I will know the truth, that she left. Another mind game or whatever you want to call it.
She's not a bad person, just a cowardly person who fell in love with someone else and couldn't do the right thing.


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## mrwalters

cgiles said:


> I read your whole post, and I think you fit into this :
> 
> "Nice Guys are concerned about looking good and doing it "right." They are happiest when they are
> making others happy. Nice Guys avoid conflict like the plague and will go to great lengths to avoid
> upsetting anyone. In general, Nice Guys are peaceful and generous. Nice Guys are especially concerned
> about pleasing women and being different from other men. In a nutshell, Nice Guys believe that if they
> are good, giving, and caring, they will in return be happy, loved, and fulfilled."
> 
> It's from this book : https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf


I've read the book twice already, thanks


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## Marc878

I don't know of any marriage that's perfect. We all have things we need to work on but there's one fact. There is never a good excuse for this behavior.

Most come here affraid to do anything. It might make them mad and push them farther away, blah, blah, blah when in fact they are already gone. Being weak, timid doing nothing or trying to nice them back won't work as you've found out. The longer these things go the more distant and detached they become as you've found out.

The only thing your wife knows at this time is you aren't going to do anything except talk and write. She continues to do as she pleases. Which says you don't matter much.

The ones that get strong quick and take action always come out the best in these situations. Whether it's reconciliation or divorce. You've known this awhile but you had a strong sense of denial and ignored good sound advice not only from here but other sites as well. I've seen them.

The affair is 100% on her. How you've handled this is on you.


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## TX-SC

I'm really glad that you are seeing the truth about your marriage now. File for divorce. At least get it started. If she miraculously comes to her senses, you can change your mind. But, I think we all know that's unlikely. Once the papers are signed and filed, start dating again. Just be careful of getting too serious until you are over your wife.


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## Voltaire2013

Marc878 said:


> Now you know where you stand.
> 
> Man up and File or you'll will be awarded the Doormat Of The Year.


He was already awarded, in absentia.


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## Voltaire2013

mrwalters said:


> I've read the book twice already, thanks


There is a stark difference between 'reading' & 'comprehenshion'.
Not trying to be rude, but I wonder about you and your methodology. I was once a doormat, I get it, but do you?

Cheers,
V (13)


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## Evinrude58

mrwalters said:


> *Yes. this is what I intend to do. I will file for divorce.*
> 
> Not to dismiss what everyone has said, but it was a long road that I had to navigate to get here. Had I filed the day she left and we did divorce i would have always wondered if it could have been saved. I won't have that on my conscience for the rest of my life.
> I don't have a time machine, there are no do-overs.
> 
> i did speak with some good friends yesterday. They talked me out of doing some rash emotional things. I wanted to slam her on social media and let everyone know, fly there and beat the snot out of that guy, etc.
> Two of the most level headed guys I know told me to just turn around and walk the other way.
> 
> I told another close friend of mine about her getting into a car accident while texting with me yesterday about it all. He thought it was funny and she deserved it, etc.
> It made me realize how people handle things differently. In no way did I get any joy out of her pain or sorrow. I know that this isnt easy on her and she is emotionally drained as well. as her husband I felt i needed to protect her from most everything. Being her advocate and providing were top priorities for me. Until all of this I never thought of it that way, it was just part of our life together.
> The immediate disruption to all of that by her cheating, it was incomprehensible. I'm guessing it messed her up too because she became and did things I never seen in her before. Before this there were no secrets, no lies, and 100% transparency.
> When all of this happened it became too much to deal with. I wanted to believe that there was part of her that was still in there. At least there for me and when she offered morsels of it I bit.
> 
> I do see all of your points. Why hold onto her with a piece of paper that says we are married. She is off with someone else, that piece of paper has not stopped her in doing any of this. It was my hope that somehow when she came out of her "fog" that the piece of paper would still tie and unite us together. And honestly, that still might be the case. I don't think they will work out.
> But..
> *At this point I don't care to wait.* Before when she would call or text me that she missed me, send old pictures and things that kept me holding onto the past. It probably kept her holding onto it too. But it did not stop her from doing what she was doing and it enabled her to believe that she could keep me while also leaving me.
> When people asked her about where she was and what she was doing she would be elusive and leave them with the impression we were separated. It wasnt until i told them she was seeing someone else did they see the full scope of what was happening. Many of my Army buddies saw this before in their friends marriages.
> It's such a shame. I know that it was salvageable. I know that many here have been betrayed and learned a tough lesson. I have a pretty good suspicion that the way in which I write or talk about all of this makes me sound cowardly, and in fact that may be the case. But that is neither here nor there. A lot of what i say here stays here and it keeps me from saying it to her.
> 
> As far as all the comments about her taking money, opening CC's, and watching my assets. Thank you for that advice, I know that it is to help me. That may have been a concern for others, but it is not a concern for me. She is not spending any of my money, and as much as I would like to prove this fact I don't feel I need to. I know this will not be a problem and I would like to leave it at that.
> 
> Had I come off stronger in my words on this thread I probably wouldn't be seen as a doormat. In my marriage the dynamics were lopsided and I had most of the power. in fact, it could be argued that I had the majority of all of it for too long. This affair in some ways may be the result of that. I'm not excusing her, but I have been analytical most of my life and I have a good ability to step back and put myself in someone else shoes. I have been trying to put myself in hers. I don't know how to begin to as I loved her too much to do what she did. Her reality was different from mine. Her affair has taken so much out of me that I am willing to forgo the marriage. I'm sure the time of me being gone, her being lonely, her feeling under-appreciated left a hole inside of her that allowed for this to happen. Damn I want to hate her, I really do. It would make it so much easier
> Somewhere in the dynamics of our marriage things got broken down and she broke because she was more emotionally susceptible. Once the affair started everything eroded.
> I falsely hoped that by hanging on i could save it. I don't regret it. i do regret all of the hurt it caused me along the way but I was going to go through that one way or another after ending a 10 year union.
> Most of the damage came from her cheating and then lying and all of the elusive behavior. Had she just left I could have grappled with that easier. Thats hwere we differ. Before I start anything else and move on I will end our marriage.
> F'in sucks, but it is my reality.
> 
> I'm not going to lie,* I do hope we can m*ake it work. But if she is not willing to fight for our marriage and leave OM then there is no reason to stay in the mariage. She will probably do the same thing with the divorce papers. Sign them and say she didn't want to, that she knew i wanted it and I wanted her to be gone. But I will know the truth, that she left. Another mind game or whatever you want to call it.
> *She's not a bad person*, just a cowardly person who fell in love with someone else and couldn't do the right thing.


Just so you know, you're still doing it. You won't accept her for what she is and won't file. I don't think you will file within 6 months. You still haven't accepted it all. When you do, you will not be saying you'd still like it to work out.
It HAS worked out. She's been gone and isn't coming back. And you keep telling us what she's not going to do and we are reading about her doing it.
You act like it's not bothering you like it did all of us bitter chumps.
When you finally get it, you'll appreciate what you've been told and see for yourself how badly you needed a 2x4 over the head. 
You have got to wake up, snap out of it, come back to reality, and divorce her. And for goodness sake, check your credit for open credit card accounts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> I'm not going to lie, I do hope we can make it work.
> 
> *Honestly, I'm speechless that you could still feel this way. What else does she have to do to show you who she is?*
> 
> But if she is not willing to fight for our marriage and leave OM then there is no reason to stay in the mariage.
> 
> *There is no IF.*


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## mrwalters

I have to say it was like a light switch for me after my last conversation with my wife.
I have been getting to the place where i am ok envisioning a future without her. Each day after that conversation and knowing that I do intend on divorce I feel a whole lot better about it. Before I was married but planning on divorce if she stayed in affair. Holding onto hope.
Now I am planning on divorce and should she do a complete 180 then we can talk about changing that. It is this little change in my mindset that makes a huge difference in how I see the reality of it all.
I still wander back and forth between the two thought patterns, but instead of primarily holding on I am primarily letting go.


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## farsidejunky

Great. When do you file?


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## mrwalters

I will be researching into the best way next. My guess is she will not want to come to FL to appear in court judging by the way she has handled everything so far.
It is entirely new to me and the one attorney i know who I could ask help for I want to leave her out of it completely.
If i can leave attorneys out of it and just get it done via paperwork that would be the route I would like to take. As I said earlier we will not fight each other on anything, and a separation doc has been signed to outline the divorce.
Looks like i will have to put some of my interests into getting this part done now.


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## Acoa

mrwalters said:


> I will be researching into the best way next. My guess is she will not want to come to FL to appear in court judging by the way she has handled everything so far.
> It is entirely new to me and the one attorney i know who I could ask help for I want to leave her out of it completely.
> If i can leave attorneys out of it and just get it done via paperwork that would be the route I would like to take. As I said earlier we will not fight each other on anything, and a separation doc has been signed to outline the divorce.
> Looks like i will have to put some of my interests into getting this part done now.


Pay for an attorney. Use the courts. Make sure it's done right, or she could derail things on you. Your attorney works for you, don't let them goad you into a fight if you think it can be amicable, it can be. 

A good lawyer will help you avoid any potentially costly mistakes. Worth the fee.


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## Hoosier

WHO CARES IF SHE WANTS TO COME TO FLORIDA OR NOT?!?!

Wow, just chanced upon this thread, sure wish I hadn't.


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## TDSC60

mrwalters said:


> I will be researching into the best way next. My guess is she will not want to come to FL to appear in court judging by the way she has handled everything so far.
> It is entirely new to me and the one attorney i know who I could ask help for I want to leave her out of it completely.
> If i can leave attorneys out of it and just get it done via paperwork that would be the route I would like to take. As I said earlier we will not fight each other on anything, and a separation doc has been signed to outline the divorce.
> Looks like i will have to put some of my interests into getting this part done now.


She does not need to come to FL ever. 

File the documents in court and have her served where she lives.

I don't know what the law in FL is, but in my state a hearing will be held after a specific time frame (usually several months) and if she does not show up, it is no big deal. The court will sent the hearing date to her at her last known address. The judge will take it as she just does not care enough to come and proceed on that basis.


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## mrwalters

TDSC60 said:


> She does not need to come to FL ever.
> 
> File the documents in court and have her served where she lives.
> 
> I don't know what the law in FL is, but in my state a hearing will be held after a specific time frame (usually several months) and if she does not show up, it is no big deal. The court will sent the hearing date to her at her last known address. The judge will take it as she just does not care enough to come and proceed on that basis.


Ok. good to know.
I hear yall on the attorney probably being the best bet.
As weird as it is to say it, I feel a lot like I used to just knowing that I am going to file.
I havent hashed it all out yet, but I feel like i have my old self back a bit more. That also includes not worrying about saying or doing the right things to save the marriage. Before the affair and all of this I was a very strong person in the marriage. The affair definitely took that right out of me.
I now have it within me to either talk to her or not talk to her. I am not worried about the outcome not going in favor of the marriage. Sure I wish it could be saved, but thats not on me.
This is the power that had been taken from me. Its been so long that looking back on who I was was like looking back on a distant memory. I wish i had this in me so long ago when it first occurred.


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## Evinrude58

Glad you are feeling better. This evil thing cheaters do will play with your mind and have you thinking up is down, right is wrong, etcetera.

Go out. Have fun with friends. Do things you couldn't do because you were married. Get happy.
You can be happy without an unfaithful anchor around your neck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## happyman64

How goes it Mr. W?


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## Marc878

MW, when you file just do it. No warning. Let her deal with it like you had to.


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> It's like she is placing it all back on me. When she had left she was texting a mutual friend of our on the plane ride to CA about how she knew I would always leave her and didn't want to be with her, etc.
> It doesnt make sense.


Classic, classic cheater behavior (and BPD behavior even in non-cheaters). Seen that script in so many threads here:

SPOUSE: You're destroying the relationship!
POSTER: I don't want to. What would you like to do to save it? I've been thinking about it, and I think we could do A, B, or C.
SPOUSE: Nothing.
POSTER: OK, we're doing nothing then.
SPOUSE: WHY ARE YOU DESTROYING THE RELATIONSHIP


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## truster

mrwalters said:


> As I said earlier we will not fight each other on anything, and a separation doc has been signed to outline the divorce.


MW, "we will not fight each other in the divorce" is the inevitable followup statement after "she would never cheat on me" and then "she'll stop if I commit to her". In my personal journey, I even split it into two, with the second half being "OK, she screwed me in custody, but she won't care about the money".

I'll leave it to you to guess how the fourth statement turned out after the first three were horribly wrong. Invest in protecting yourself.. if she doesn't fight, it won't even be that much money.


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## mrwalters

Its been a week or so. Thought I'd update.
Many of you mentioned to file and have her served. i went the route of telling her I was sending her papers. She has not replied.
I still have my day of May1 1st for when I do file if she does not reply. that will mark 1 year for the beginning of when she began the affair, at least the emotional part of it.

I have read it before. The opposite of love is not hatred, its indifference.
I think thats where i am at with it all. It took me a while to get there. i don't know if any method yall mentioned would have sped it up, but I do see it a lot more clearly now that I'm not caught up in all of it.
I'm still glad i didn't go the route of nuclear destruction. 
After getting to this place i can also see that what I was holding onto is gone, and for whatever reason she had to do everything she did, especially after leaving. Well, I may never know. Maybe a long time from now it can be discussed, maybe not.
It is a significant change in my mindset, one that I wish I could have come to sooner. 
I am also starting to be happy being single. It's not like I will have a problem finding women, there are plenty of them out there. It may be a journey to find a really good one.
I also have to say that I do see the point of the marriage builders program. Where you leave with with the best impression of you and then turn and walk away. I wish I could have done the turn and walk away part better. 
Now that i'm not all caught up in it emotionally I can do the latter part better, but it has come too late for me and I have lost the love for her that I once had. Most of that was destroyed in the contact between the two of us. But whatever the case and whatever caused it, I no longer feel the burden of what she did.
I sometimes wonder how she is handling all of it, especially since she hasn't come to terms with it all. Running from the marriage through an affair, lieing to everyone where she was and what she was doing, and now avoiding the divorce. 
I still have empathy for her. Must be a tough road she is down.


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## Evinrude58

You may be to acceptance (I suspect-- finally, LOL), but you are not to indifference.
Once you are in indifference, you won't give a poop what happens with her, about her, won't care about hearing from her, etc. 
I'm just now getting there, and really aren't completely there yet. It takes a long time and a lot of heartache.

Glad you are getting to acceptance. NOW, you will start healing and see just how much you were letting her control your life, your emotions, etc.

You'll see the REAL her pretty soon, and be glad she's gone. That I can pretty much assure you of.

My suggestion: Go do the things you always wanted to do but couldn't because you were married.
You have the chance to do a lot of that. Always time to find another woman to marry.
Get happy with Mr. W and then just enjoy your life without the anchor around your neck, dragging you down.

She won't sign. Needs that Plan B, right???
Good luck. Wish you could have gotten out of that pain a little sooner.


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> I also have to say that I do see the point of the marriage builders program. *Where you leave with with the best impression of you and then turn and walk away.* I wish I could have done the turn and walk away part better.


Well, that plan A approach on MB is often debated here. For those like me it reeks of desperation and the willingness to lose your dignity and self respect - all for a WS who is further disrespecting you by openly continuing the A. I couldn't do that in a million years.


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## mrwalters

badmemory said:


> Well, that plan A approach on MB is often debated here. For those like me it reeks of desperation and the willingness to lose your dignity and self respect - all for a WS who is further disrespecting you by openly continuing the A. I couldn't do that in a million years.


Yes, I do see that as well. It was either that or 180. Looking back I dont think either would have worked once she began her affair. That was the beginning of the end.


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## mrwalters

Evinrude58 said:


> You may be to acceptance (I suspect-- finally, LOL), but you are not to indifference.
> Once you are in indifference, you won't give a poop what happens with her, about her, won't care about hearing from her, etc.
> I'm just now getting there, and really aren't completely there yet. It takes a long time and a lot of heartache.
> 
> Glad you are getting to acceptance. NOW, you will start healing and see just how much you were letting her control your life, your emotions, etc.
> 
> You'll see the REAL her pretty soon, and be glad she's gone. That I can pretty much assure you of.
> 
> My suggestion: Go do the things you always wanted to do but couldn't because you were married.
> You have the chance to do a lot of that. Always time to find another woman to marry.
> Get happy with Mr. W and then just enjoy your life without the anchor around your neck, dragging you down.
> 
> She won't sign. Needs that Plan B, right???
> Good luck. Wish you could have gotten out of that pain a little sooner.


This probably won't be true for me. I have had long relationships in the past and I've always wished them well afterwards. They didn't have an affair though, so we shall see.
As far as going out, I've been doing that probably a bit too much.

Yes, I probably was her plan B. Not all marriages and relationships are the same. So i do know there are a lot of projections onto mine from here. But I do hear what you are saying.


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## badmemory

mrwalters said:


> * Looking back I dont think either would have worked once she began her affair*. That was the beginning of the end.


If by "worked", you mean getting to your best outcome the soonest; you're wrong about the 180 and D. You could have saved a year of heart ache, put her in your rear view mirror, and already be well on your way to starting a new life.

If by "worked" you mean her returning, you being miserable in a false R and her cheating again; I'll respectfully disagree with you on that as well. That would not have been your best outcome.

Look, I don't blame a man for wanting to save his marriage. But what I think most of us were trying to get you to see, is that there was no marriage to save. She was too far gone from the moment she left. We could recognize it based on our experience - you just wouldn't, for whatever reason.

Take this as a life lesson and move on. Stop contacting her unless absolutely necessary.


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## becareful

I think you are the opposite of Lonely Husband. Whereas he moved swiftly, you dragged your feet. He was about action; you're about emotion. He got his wife back, remorseful and fully committed, while you lost yours. His wife treats him like a king, while your wife basically flipped you the proverbial bird and doesn't give two schitts about what you do. Yet, you have decided to wait until May 1st to file.


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