# Moving from EA to PA?



## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

For those of you who know my situation was wondering how "easy" it is to move from EA to PA? 
My Hs EA has been underground for moths, completely underground. N/C with O/W outside of work almost 99% guranteed.
Now the EA has been exposed (3 weeks ago), He says he loves her, they have kissed, but not had sex. Ok i know he could be lying to me, but in all honestly up until 2 weekends ago he still spent ALL his spare time with me and the kids, despite being seperated. Anyway, im wondering, now that the EA has been exposed does it automatically mean that it is going to physical?

My H is visibly ashamed of his actions, he cant look at me, he knows what he is doing is wrong. I have been told that at work (his colleagues now know) that he walks around with his head down and hides away in his room most of the time. Bearing in mind the OW is a co worker.

I just wonder if the shame and guilt of it all might just be enough to end it? or am i just looking for hope where there is no hope?
She is married as well with 2 kids. Her H moved out 2 weeks ago when it was all exposed). 
Surely this is a relationship doomed to fail?

Just so you know my H is not a cereal cheater. For 17 years he was a devoted family man and husband.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's VERY easy to move from EA to PA, Daisy. 

My advice to you, since he is still having an affair, is to tell him to GTFO. That you won't tolerate having a cheating spouse in your home around your children.

He's already told you he wants a divorce so give it to him. Do not waste your life.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

No nothing is automatic.

So your WS is living apart from you. The OW's husband moved out. Yea it could go PA quick. Who is watching the henhouse and who is watching the rooster?

Yea a relationship doomed to fail because hey, she is living apart from her hubby and your hubby is living apart from you. No it is a relationship that is ready to bloom, because they can comfort each other in their misery and talk about how bad they feel about what they have done, and oh, by the way they could do it while laying in bed next to each other, naked.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

If the only way you can be sure that he has been faithful is taking his word for it, you really don't have a clue. Also, I seriously doubt that the only thing that took place was a kiss.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

You are still in denial. If you want the marriage to work get your hubby back in the house. If not let him go. Right now it is critical to have full accountabilty on his as* and living apart is not good for this.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> For those of you who know my situation was wondering how "easy" it is to move from EA to PA?
> My Hs EA has been underground for moths, completely underground. N/C with O/W outside of work almost 99% guranteed.
> *Now the EA has been exposed (3 weeks ago), He says he loves her, they have kissed, but not had sex*. Ok i know he could be lying to me, but in all honestly up until 2 weekends ago he still spent *ALL his spare time with me and the kids, despite being seperated.* Anyway, im wondering, now that the EA has been exposed does it automatically mean that it is going to physical?
> 
> ...


 
What I don't like is how convienient it is for them to meet up now because you said her husband left her two weeks ago. 

You said he spends all his spare time with you and the kids.... could he be seeing her after he leaves your family ..... being that "seperation" only makes it easier for the cheaters to cheat and play house away from home.

How do you know He is not a serial cheater? How do you know he is visably ashamed? He is ashamed but he is still having an affair with her? If he left his home and her husband left his home, it is very easy for it to become EA to PA. So when you say he spends all his SPARE time with you guys, that does not include the time he leaves there and go where he stays.


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## NaturalHeart (Nov 13, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> *You are still in denial.* If you want the marriage to work get your hubby back in the house. If not let him go. Right now it is critical to have full accountabilty on his as* and living apart is not good for this.


Exactly-

When you find out a spouse cheated, it means you have to take a step back and clear your mind from believing everything that comes out of their mouth. More than anything, they now have to *prove* that the words coming our of their mouth are true.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Your husband is a cheater. At this point, everything you know about him is called into question. 

This could be his first affair, could be his second, or even his tenth . . . you can no longer trust the perception you've had of him for the past 17 years. He may be a devoted family man, but it doesn't mean he's been faithful.

My husband was a devoted family man too, but when I discovered his affair it was like my world tilted on it's axis. I felt like I was married to a stranger. Everything he said I doubted. Glad I did, because he claimed it was only an EA on d-day. He confessed the PA portion 12 hours later. Several days later he confessed to an affair with a different co-worker 10 years ago. I never had a clue. He confessed the first affair because he wanted to "prove" he had no more secrets. He had no reason to confess his first affair, he got away with it. It wasn't until that confession that I finally started to inch towards believing _anything_ my H said, because the truth was so horrible I knew it had to be true.

There's no reason to believe anything your H says right now, you want to believe him, but you can't. It's taken over a year of therapy and my husband proving to me daily that he deserves the trust I give him now. But if he's at work late, he will send me pic of his computer time whenever I ask. Because I want to believe him, but he knows I'm not sure I can. He accepts this, but the trust is slowly building.

My point is, don't believe your H yet. He does not deserve your trust at this point. Does he want to earn your trust? If so, then it'll be a long haul of him earning that trust back. If not, let him go and start the long haul of living a life without him. 

Either one will be difficult and painful, but you can only do the first one if he's come _totally_ clean, wants R, and can accept that he needs to earn back your trust.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but it's hard to hear a BS being so trusting of their WS so soon after d-day. That's the time the WS is most likely to lie and do damage control to make the discovery as "painless" as possible. Good luck and stay well!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks all.
Yes I know I am still in denial. 
It's difficult to stop the feelings I have had for him for all this time and really see that I don't know this person at all because that means that my 18 year marriage has been a sham!
Saying that though Im as sure as I can be that he hasnt cheated before this. He WAS a devoted family man and always made me feel loved, but he is not the man I married and I know that now.
He is defensive and takes the slightest challenge as a criticism or as me being 'controlling'. He has become manipulative and he's seems to have a lot of resentment towards me.

Throughout this whole ordeal (10 months now) I have acted with dignity. I can hold my head up. I have always been a strong person, this has just crushed me. Apparently she is a gentle and soft person, very 'precious'. Needy and vulnerable! Something I have never been - until now!! How ironic!
I know he's a liar and a cheat.
I really am done!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> It's VERY easy to move from EA to PA, Daisy.
> 
> My advice to you, since he is still having an affair, is to tell him to GTFO. That you won't tolerate having a cheating spouse in your home around your children.
> 
> He's already told you he wants a divorce so give it to him. Do not waste your life.


Hey JB yes you were right all along!
I asked him if he wanted a divorce twice and he said no!
Maybe he just wants me to do it!
Funny that!
Because that wld be me taking control again!! Something he has said he is done with!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

For some reason I still blame myself for all of this! I have such deep seated regret about so much. When I stand my ground I always back down and feel like I have to apologise to him. This is something I really need help with. 
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Like someone posted in the past. 50% of the marriage problems prio to an A are shared. Infidelity 100% him. 

The cheating was not your fault.

Stop apologizing. Stop it.

You feel this way out of hurt, pain and a false sense that you were somehow fully or partly to blame. Stop it please. You did not make him do it. I wanted to apologize to my WS but did not. During the worse of it I stopped myself short and said, WTF, why do I feel this need to apologize, what the hel* did I do? I did nothing to make her cheat and YOU DID NOTHING TO MAKE HIM CHEAT.

So stop apologizing.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Like someone posted in the past. 50% of the marriage problems prio to an A are shared. Infidelity 100% him.
> 
> The cheating was not your fault.
> 
> ...


I cannot agree enough. You are in no way responsible for his affair. It's all him. 100%

As to your original question...have you ever sneezed? That's how quick an EA can become a PA. I'm not exaggerating. And btw kissing *IS* a PA. As long as he is in any type of affair do not even consider reconciliation. In fact, until he ends his affair you should be going dark. No contact unless it is absolutely necessary.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> I cannot agree enough. You are in no way responsible for his affair. It's all him. 100%
> 
> As to your original question...have you ever sneezed? That's how quick an EA can become a PA. I'm not exaggerating. And btw kissing *IS* a PA. As long as he is in any type of affair do not even consider reconciliation. In fact, until he ends his affair you should be going dark. No contact unless it is absolutely necessary.


This is a genuine question Beowulf and I respect your opinion.
Why do I need to go dark? 
I have resigned myself to the fact that out marriage is over (ok I Stiill have a tiny bit of hope) so why do I need to go dark?
Is it to make him realise what he is missing or to protect myself?
At the moment my instincts tell me it's ok to be in contact and be 'friends' so this is as easier on me and the kids as possible.
Have I just lost the plot completely or what?
I just dont know anymore!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thorburn said:


> Like someone posted in the past. 50% of the marriage problems prio to an A are shared. Infidelity 100% him.
> 
> The cheating was not your fault.
> 
> ...


Yes I will
I have been told!
Thankyou : - )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> This is a genuine question Beowulf and I respect your opinion.
> Why do I need to go dark?
> I have resigned myself to the fact that out marriage is over (ok I Stiill have a tiny bit of hope) so why do I need to go dark?
> Is it to make him realise what he is missing or to protect myself?
> ...


_Why do I need to go dark? Is it to make him realise what he is missing or to protect myself?_ Short answer...yes.

You think that by staying friendly with him you can win him back when their affair has run its course right? Be honest. The problem is by continuing to do that you are enabling his affair to continue longer. You are condemning yourself, your children, your husband and yes even the other woman to a state of perpetual limbo. It's not healthy for anyone, least of all you.

By continuing to communicate with him in a friendly manner you are providing him with emotional support. Something he should not have from you while still engaged in his affair. Turn it around. If you were having an affair wouldn't you want him to stay on friendly terms with you? Would that make you feel better about what you were doing? By removing yourself as his emotional safety net you force him to confront his decisions head on. Hopefully he will see what he is doing is not only self destructive but is hurting you and the children as well.

You should communicate in a business like manner. Not hostile, not friendly. And only when necessary. When you chase someone they instinctively run away. When you stop chasing them they stop running. Then they look around and don't know where they are. Nothing is familiar. Then they question how they got to be in this predicament. That is the place you want him to be. He's never going to get there if you continue to pursue him. If he gets there and doesn't come back to you then you have your answer that there wasn't anything worth saving anyway.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks for spelling it out.
You know I'm quite an intelligent person really but my brain is fried!
I know I really need to grow a pair!!!
He's in the other room making me a mothers day card for me for Sunday with my daughter!
Argh!!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thanks for spelling it out.
> You know I'm quite an intelligent person really but my brain is fried!
> I know I really need to grow a pair!!!
> He's in the other room making me a mothers day card for me for Sunday with my daughter!
> ...


Intelligence has no bearing when it comes to infidelity. There is another thread on here where a wife cheated on and lied to her husband. And she's a marriage counselor.

You are intelligent. You are strong. Have confidence in yourself. Whatever happens you'll get through this.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> Intelligence has no bearing when it comes to infidelity. There is another thread on here where a wife cheated on and lied to her husband. And she's a marriage counselor.
> 
> You are intelligent. You are strong. Have confidence in yourself. Whatever happens you'll get through this.


Beowulf is correct. Feels like our brains short circuit. Stinks when the world keeps spinning round and round and you just wish it would stop. Freakn mother's day card. Sorry that the child is involved or I would tell him where to stick it.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I know!! I just seem to have lost my mojo!! Yknow. I used to be the kind of woman who wouldn't put up with any crap but for some stupid reason Ive turned into a wimp. This sounds so terrible to say out loud but I almost feel like if he said he wanted both of us I would agree! It'd just pathetic but this has just blown me away. I really think I'm in shock!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I know!! I just seem to have lost my mojo!! Yknow. I used to be the kind of woman who wouldn't put up with any crap but for some stupid reason Ive turned into a wimp. This sounds so terrible to say out loud but I almost feel like if he said he wanted both of us I would agree! It'd just pathetic but this has just blown me away. I really think I'm in shock!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You are in shock. That's the point. Its why you can't make any decisions right now. Its also why you need to circle the wagons so to speak and concentrate on yourself and your healing. Let him deal with his own crap for a while. After all, he made this mess.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Beowulf said:


> You are in shock. That's the point. Its why you can't make any decisions right now. Its also why you need to circle the wagons so to speak and concentrate on yourself and your healing. Let him deal with his own crap for a while. After all, he made this mess.


Well I've done it. I told hI'm last night that as lOng as he is having a relationship with the OW then we can not spend any more time together and only communicate about things to do with the children.
This came after yesterday, mothers day, when he couldn't do enough for me and sat next to me last night to watch a movie! Yes I know I let him, but I'm like putty in his hands.

When hr left last night, I wept, but decided enough is enough. I can't live like this anymore.
It's been a tough day.
Really missing communicating with him. The first time I have attempted NC in 18 years!
Any tips anyone?
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Well I've done it. I told hI'm last night that as lOng as he is having a relationship with the OW then we can not spend any more time together and only communicate about things to do with the children.
> This came after yesterday, mothers day, when he couldn't do enough for me and sat next to me last night to watch a movie! Yes I know I let him, but I'm like putty in his hands.
> 
> When hr left last night, I wept, but decided enough is enough. I can't live like this anymore.
> ...


First I commend you on your courage and heart. I'm sure this wasn't an easy thing to do. But you are doing it for you. The easiest way to maintain NC is to just keep reminding yourself that as long as he is seeing her he is not yours. You might be in his mind but you are not in his heart. Before you get extremely sad know this. He is not hers either. She is not in his heart. If she had his heart he would not be looking to spend time with you. Now he is going to know what he is losing. He may choose to spend a little more time with her for a while but it won't last. Their relationship is a poison pill. The only reason it didn't collapse earlier is because you were acting as an antidote. Now he won't need to know what he's done. He'll feel it.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thankyou Beowulf
It's been tough today not contacting him. I did break a bit this evening as I am in work and just txt to ask about the kids etc!
We have been together 18 years, never gone to sleep on an argument, never gone more than a day without being in contact (even when he was stationed abroad with the army). It's like cutting a part of me off but I know I have to be strong now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

daisygirl 41 said:


> Thankyou Beowulf
> It's been tough today not contacting him. I did break a bit this evening as I am in work and just txt to ask about the kids etc!
> We have been together 18 years, never gone to sleep on an argument, never gone more than a day without being in contact (even when he was stationed abroad with the army). It's like cutting a part of me off but I know I have to be strong now!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its going to take time. If you slip don't beat yourself up. Just get back on the horse. Know that you are doing the right thing for yourself. Use this time to learn about yourself. Do some soul searching. Take up a hobby you've always wanted to try. Whatever. This is your time.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

One more thing.

At this point I don't know if you are decided on R or D. But might I offer you a suggestion.

Start doing things with the kids. Family things that your husband would normally have been part of. Go to the zoo or a circus. Take them out for ice cream or to a movie. Then when they do see him they'll tell him how much fun they had...without him. Trust me he will feel terrible about missing those family times. He may even react by taking them out himself and spending time with them in similar ways. And of course he will not be with HER on these days. He'll also be missing you when he takes the boys out because these times would normally be with you there and he'll feel that emptiness.

This I can say from experience. When my wife had her affair what broke her out of the fog was as she was going to meet her AP. She stopped and watched me playing with our young son. She had demonized me as being a cold emotionless monster but here I was playing with our boy and we were both laughing and having a great time. She had a moment of clarity and realized I wasn't the heartless a$$ her mind had made me out to be. She said she cried because she wanted to stay and be part of our family bonding time. But she couldn't because she was meeting her lover. She broke it off and came clean that night.

Your husband's recent memories are going to be about having family bonding experiences with you and the children. Now he's going to lose that. It will hurt. It will hurt even more if he knows that these bonding times are going to continue without him. People instinctively do not like to be left out.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Thanks again for your input.
Having a bad morning as I just found out he doesn't wear his wedding ring to work anymore (ow is there) and its really upset me but reading over these posts again helps me to stay focused on the bigger picture and that is to R one day!
DG
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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