# Sexual Needs Are Not Being Met



## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Let me start by saying that I have no idea how to word this, so be prepared for some rambling. I also might sound selfish, but that's really not where I'm coming from, so please hear me out.

I know not to judge a current partner based on my past experiences, but I'm having a hard time coming to terms with such a drastic change. Before I met my wife, my sex life was semi adventurous. I had girlfriends that were giving when it came to sex, and they had no problem asking for things they liked. I had more sex, in more places, and I didn't have to ask for things that I liked. When I first met my wife (then girlfriend) she was the same. We had sex when we wanted, where we wanted (within reason) and it was fun. We've now been married for almost 10 years, and together for 15, and she is not the same person sexually that she once was, and I am. Where opportunity should allow for more spontaneous sex lives, she doesn't follow my spirit. An example of this started within the last 10 years, since we bought a house. We have more room, we have a fenced in backyard, we have privacy, and yet we have only had sex in our bedroom and a few times on the couch. To try to spice things up, I have bought toys that don't get used, I have bought lingerie that she says she loves but doesn't wear after trying it on initially, and I try to randomly bring out moments that could be adventurous, like asking her to take off her panties before going into a movie, or to use a panty vibrator when we got out. Those things have also been turned down, and from past experience I know that there isn't a point in asking again. The smallest of these things is me asking her for sexy pictures, which are generally turned down, so I might get them once in a 6 month period.

So, after all this time asking for things, and coming up with ideas, I started working on myself. I started getting in better shape, I lift weights, I've lost some weight, and I took pictures of myself that are honestly great, and I sent them to her. She said she loved them, but nothing has changed. If anything, my self esteem has gotten worse, because anything we do sexually is my idea, and I mean that literally. So now, if she agrees to anything that I ask (and I ask rarely at this point because of the history of rejection) I feel like she is just doing it to get me to leave her alone. She doesn't bring up any of this stuff at all, even in conversation, and I have started to have emotional issues because of it. She has said before she doesn't know what I want, but I am explicit in the things I need, and have discussed how the things I like don't need to be constant, and that I would just like her to participate so I don't feel like everything is one sided. I ask her what she wants and needs from me, and I try my best to do those things, but she doesn't reciprocate. It's like she doesn't have a single thought about sex and what she likes and wants, even though she does sometimes tell me when I ask. 

To add to this, she also tells me that she didn't like sex with her exes, and that I am the best she's ever had, and I am very attractive to her, but she only tells me this stuff when I start asking what the problem is. So, this brings me to current day.

We have started getting high and having sex once a week, almost always on Saturday night. I have to say, it is amazing. She is open to things, she talks dirty, she will wear sexy clothes, we take pictures together. It is everything I've ever wanted, except it recently became a problem. When she is high, if I ask to try something, she will. I recently asked her to try deepthroating, and I loved it, and she was great at it. Then, a few weeks ago, I asked her to try it when we were sober. She immediately said she couldn't do it. I know for a fact she can, but she didn't want to try, and it turned into a whole issue where I told her sex isn't fun for me because he doesn't put in any effort, or she doesn't have fun with it, and I constantly feel like a problem because I have to ask for something I want every single time, or it will not happen at all. 

Since that time, I have decided to give up. As much as I hate saying it, I don't think she will ever change, and I'm not asking for a huge change. I have told her everything that I like, and left the rest to her, which means it won't happen. If I bring it up, I feel like **** for having to ask. I haven't asked for pictures in months, and I haven't received any. I don't ask for blowjobs nearly as much, and I don't really feel like having sex much either. If I give her oral sex, it's because I like doing it, and I don't want reciprocation, but I give in because I don't want her acting weird when I turn her down. 

Through the years we have talked about this and I have tried to come up with solutions for her. I'll use the picture thing as an example. She said she didn't know when I wanted pictures, and I told her anytime was better than never. She also said she never knows what I want at any given time, but I said it isn't like I want it all at once, or there has to be a specific time, other than more often. So to help, we agreed to make a list of things we like, and the frequency we would like them, and just roll dice. Whatever the dice lands on, we look at the number on the list and we do that. FYI, we never did that. So, after another year, we talked about making a spin wheel using an app, just spin it and that's what she/we could do. That also never got used. 

In giving up on my sexual needs, we now follow a strict routine. When we do have sex, we perform oral on each other for a bit, then she immediately goes to doggy style, which is her favorite, and that's it. She has an orgasm, I do, and that's it. No discussion otherwise, nothing fun for both parties, I don't even know if she enjoys it because she never talks to me about it. I just go through the motions. At this point I feel like I should just take what I can get and keep my mouth shut. We are going on a trip for our 10 year anniversary, and the place looks great. Outdoor shower, outdoor beds, secluded. I have low expectations, but lots of fantasies. 

I'm looking for advice. Am I the issue? Am I asking too much, literally or figuratively? The frequency of my requests has dropped drastically, and I don't even talk about things that I like or would like to try anymore. My self esteem is at an all time low, but just with my wife. I have high self esteem in every other aspect of my life. I am a good person, I am attractive, I am educated, I'm sweet and funny, and people recognize that about me and relay that to my wife, who also says the same things to others. But sexually, I am not satisfied in the least, mostly because I don't have any fun. I have so many examples of times where she flat out turned me down, and others where she just started dropping the ball, even on things that she started (Steak and BJ day was fun 4 years ago, but she forgot it one year, then was too tired last year, and this year she talked it up, but came home, didn't mention it anymore, then sat on the couch and ate cereal until it was time for bed.) On the flip side, I never forget Valentines day. I am just at a loss, I don't know what to do, I don't know what changed. I even considered that she might be cheating on me, but literally nothing else has changed or is negative in our relationship. She isn't distance in any other aspect. 

I would also like to add that I do have a lot of requests when it comes to sex, but I don't put pressure on her for them. We just talk about what we like, which is what I thought you were supposed to do in a marriage, and I wait for her to try any of them at any time. When she told me she would like a hug when she got home from work, I did that. I do random acts to show her that I love her, like cards, flowers, candy, jewelry. I'm going to propose again on our anniversary, I have it all planned, so why can't she do the simplest of things for me to make me feel loved and desired in the way I need? Someone help me out here.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

She probably flat out doesn’t really think about sex, ever. My wife doesn’t.

What she does think about (now) is that I won’t tolerate it for long; because I told her that. You need to pull your self esteem out of the junk heap and dust it off.

Many will chime in on this but what it boils down to in my opinion is that if your wife doesn’t think about sex and isn’t otherwise repulsed or put off by you then it’s not a priority for her. 

As an example my wife stayed up till some god awful hour last night after 2am working on some stupid ****. This is the 3rd night in a row she did this (I keep track, she knows I keep track). Her priority right now is whatever her stupid work tasks are and that’s all she thinks about. So sex is the furthest thing on her mind… except that she knows it is on my mind every day because I told her that.

So when she does whatever she’s doing and doesn’t come to bed, she knows she’s pissing me off doing that and as such that is enough to give her the inspiration to fix it because she knows the alternative is to not be together.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

There’s an old saying that goes, “ women marry men believing that they will change. Men marry women believing they won’t.”


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

I just had this happen last night. I told her I wanted to give her oral sex. It got later and later, until I eventually asked if she still wanted it or if she wanted to go to bed instead. She said she was leaning towards bed, so I went to bed myself. 30 minutes later I get up and she's eating cereal on the couch...


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> She probably flat out doesn’t really think about sex, ever. My wife doesn’t.
> 
> What she does think about (now) is that I won’t tolerate it for long; because I told her that. You need to pull your self esteem out of the junk heap and dust it off.
> 
> ...


She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


Yeah well… it might be time to sit down and have a real talk about it if it’s actually bothering you enough to make it to TAM.

Something is either a deal breaker or it isn’t and you need to decide where your limits are and then let her know and see if she wants to stay together or not.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I just had this happen last night. I told her I wanted to give her oral sex. It got later and later, until I eventually asked if she still wanted it or if she wanted to go to bed instead. She said she was leaning towards bed, so I went to bed myself. 30 minutes later I get up and she's eating cereal on the couch...


There are a lot of different things to discuss in your posts.

One note I will make about the above is that in 26 years of marriage I have never once simply asked my wife is she wants to have sex or if she wants to do this or that.

If I really want some love’n, I just start seducing her and loving her up and initiating and escalating. 

Expecting a middle age mother to be thinking about sex all the time and always are charged up ready to go at a moment’s notice is just not part of the typical female nomenclature.

If you want someone that’s always horny, always charged up and DTF and always up for something wild and adventurous, you’re either going to have to get divorced and date one single chick after another and always chase that New Relationship Energy (NRE) that is inevitably going to fade after a certain period of time.

Or you’re going to have to turn gay and get with dudes because what you are describing that you want in terms of sexual energy are male traits and not female traits.

The fact you’ve been together 15 years and have a somewhat active and robust sex life at all shows you are towards the right side of the bell curve to begin with.

If you’re wanting to be swinging from the chandeliers having hot monkey sex night after night, you’re either going to have to date young, single chicks for no more than a year or so at a time before you move on to the next, or you’re going to have to turn gay and get with dudes that have the same sexual nomenclature.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Sometimes, I wonder if some men really just want themselves in female form, as a gf/wife. lol I think it sounds like she is trying to do new things, but she may not do every single thing you desire, that's not reasonable to expect that.

Having said that, sex is important in a marriage, but it's not the most important thing. It should come more naturally in my opinion, where you are both more in sync. I see a good sex life coming from a good healthy relationship, not something that should become an obligatory list of 'to do's' for the other person. 

It sounds like you have a good relationship if you're considering proposing to her soon, but if you don't sort out these differences, you'll be in an unhappy marriage, because these issues are clearly very important to you.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Sometimes, I wonder if some men really just want themselves in female form, as a gf/wife. lol I think it sounds like she is trying to do new things, but she may not do every single thing you desire, that's not reasonable to expect that.
> 
> Having said that, sex is important in a marriage, but it's not the most important thing. It should come more naturally in my opinion, where you are both more in sync. I see a good sex life coming from a good healthy relationship, not something that should become an obligatory list of 'to do's' for the other person.
> 
> It sounds like you have a good relationship if you're considering proposing to her soon, but if you don't sort out these differences, you'll be in an unhappy marriage, because these issues are clearly very important to you.


We are already married, I just thought it would be romantic to propose again. I think the sexual aspect of the relationship could be healthier if I didn't have to initiate literally everything. But I see your point.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> There are a lot of different things to discuss in your posts.
> 
> One note I will make about the above is that in 26 years of marriage I have never once simply asked my wife is she wants to have sex or if she wants to do this or that.
> 
> ...


I agree with you, I should be doing more romancing and leading into sex, but that's what I already did for years and years, I would like some initiative from her to do things without me always asking first, because that is not only boring, but makes me feel bothersome.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> We have started getting high and having sex once a week, almost always on Saturday night. I have to say, it is amazing. She is open to things, she talks dirty, she will wear sexy clothes, we take pictures together. It is everything I've ever wanted, except it recently became a problem. When she is high, if I ask to try something, she will. I recently asked her to try deepthroating, and I loved it, and she was great at it. Then, a few weeks ago, I asked her to try it when we were sober. She immediately said she couldn't do it. I know for a fact she can, but she didn't want to try, and it turned into a whole issue where I told her sex isn't fun for me because he doesn't put in any effort, or she doesn't have fun with it, and I constantly feel like a problem because I have to ask for something I want every single time, or it will not happen at all.


So why not continue to do what you are doing?. Get high with her and have great sex. Once I introduced pot to my wife, it has helped tremendously on allowing her to relax in the bedroom and myself as well. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I just had this happen last night. I told her I wanted to give her oral sex. It got later and later, until I eventually asked if she still wanted it or if she wanted to go to bed instead. She said she was leaning towards bed, so I went to bed myself. 30 minutes later I get up and she's eating cereal on the couch...


you can use my line "that ***** is not going to eat itself". It works, try it


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> We are already married, I just thought it would be romantic to propose again. I think the sexual aspect of the relationship could be healthier if I didn't have to initiate literally everything. But I see your point.


Okay, gotcha. I thought you're married but wasn't sure. You both sound like you love each other, but in different ways. You would like more sex, more ''positions'' etc ...and maybe that's just not how she expresses love. It's good to know personality types, as that can explain how people approach a lot of issues in life, including sexuality. 

I think there's a happy medium you both can find...maybe that could be how you explain it to her. Change takes time too, if you both give a little, it will be amazing what can happen.


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## ThatDarnGuy! (Jan 11, 2022)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


How in the heck does a conversation about her sister giving oral sex to her husband come up? 🤣

Have her go to the doctor and get her hormones tested. She is probably low on testosterone or other hormones which is killing her drive 

I developed low testosterone a couple of years back. My sex drive tanked along with motivation. She would walk in wearing the sexiest lingerie you can picture and I couldn't really get it up or would say I am just not in the mood right now. She got really worried and off to the doc I went. I had low testosterone and after about 5 weeks, my sex drive was like I was 25. I wore her out one night until she lost feeling down there and my tank was flat empty 😂


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Mybabysgotit said:


> So why not continue to do what you are doing?. Get high with her and have great sex. Once I introduced pot to my wife, it has helped tremendously on allowing her to relax in the bedroom and myself as well. Nothing wrong with that.


I'm all for it, except it only happens once a week, and we can't do it during the week because of other responsibilities. I also want to avoid the munchies as much as possible.


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## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Once the passion is lost it is hard to get back but it is possible. Read the books Sex God Method and Married Man's Sex Life Primer.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> We are already married, I just thought it would be romantic to propose again. I think the sexual aspect of the relationship could be healthier if I didn't have to initiate literally everything. But I see your point.


Look, women just don't want sex as much as men do, with very few exceptions. When they're young and dating, they're exploring and they're excited and hoping every date is the ideal guy in their head, and that makes them horny. They try things to see if they like them. Sadly, they do not like a lot of them because a lot of them are only pleasurable for men. Sex is not the No. 1 priority for women and it usually drops way off after some time being married and after having kids. You just have to accept that women don't want it as much as men do overall, so there is zero reason why she would start being proactive and initiating sex with more frequency, because she's not the one who wants it all the time. You are. Men are, in general. 

I have to agree with Old Shirt up there. It's young women dating who IF they are ever going to be experimental will be it young and dating, and even then, certainly not all are. And that doesn't last. They don't enjoy BJs. Some find oral a good trade and others would rather not entirely if given the option. You get off on doing things covertly in public, sounds like. Doesn't sound like she does. She's getting high to get you off, just like prostitutes have to stay high to keep doing it. 

The excitement wears off. It just does. No matter that you stay in shape or you don't. She has other priorities. 

The good news is when you do have sex, though less frequently than you'd like, sounds like you're both enjoying it. Don't ruin that by demanding she meet needs of yours that she simply doesn't have.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

*Deidre* said:


> Sometimes, I wonder if some men really just want themselves in female form, as a gf/wife. lol


I think there is a lot of truth to that but it’s not just men - it goes both ways and women do it too.

A man will be perplexed why she doesn’t want to be getting freaky in a portable hot tub with a troupe of Chinese acrobats in the back of an SUV limousine while cruising the strip, while a woman will be perplexed on how he isn’t concerned that the garbage disposal hasn’t been replaced in 8 years and has been making a funny noise the last few weeks. 

My wife was very high libido and quite adventurous until the kids came. After the kids came I think she was truly and sincerely perplexed that I was not laying awake nights worrying that the laundry may not be getting enough softener and that the dishes may not be getting pre-rinsed adequately before going into the dishwasher etc. 

And I think there were many times she was truly thunderstruck that I could still want to have a regular sex life when there was clearly blades of grass coming up through the cracks in the sidewalk in front of the house. 😮

We all tend to see the world, not as how the world is, but how we are. 

I’m carrying on now but the point is, the OP is frustrated and disenchanted because his wife does not have his sexual energy and spontaneous desire and sense of sexual adventurism. 

It’s realistic to expect to have a marital sex life.

It’s not realistic to have another person have an identical sexual identity as yourself.

And it’s unrealistic for males and female to have identical sexual nomenclatures.

Males and females are designed to be complementary to each other and not identical to each other.

Otherwise all dudes would be gay and all chicks would be lesbians.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> ...........We've now been married for almost 10 years, and together for 15, and she is not the same person sexually that she once was, and I am.
> 
> ...........She immediately said she couldn't do it. I know for a fact she can, but she didn't want to try, and it turned into a whole issue where I told her sex isn't fun for me because he doesn't put in any effort, or she doesn't have fun with it, and I constantly feel like a problem because I have to ask for something I want every single time, or it will not happen at all.
> 
> ...


Where to start. Yes, you are the issue (in part). Read what you posted and the parts I have highlighted.

I find it fascinating that two people can talk and both communicate and not communicate at the same time. Let me explain. In your mind you have been telling your wife sexually what you would like. You are assuming that telling her is some how going to make her want to do those things, especially the ones she doesn't care to do. You would be better off finding out the ones she really wants to do or is willing to try every now and then. Many women are reluctant to try something new for fear that their husband will insist on it every time instead of once in a blue moon. Sounds like you special deep throat BJ is something she tried for you, it didn't really float her boat and yet you pressured her to do it again. Do you see how your post says she tried it for you, you asked for it again, she said she couldn't do that, and you rubbed her face in that she did it once so why not again? That is not a good dynamic to make a wife try something new, now is it? Can you understand how after a certain number of those kinds of "trying something new" she just might shut down on trying new things?

Similarly, you have said that you have sexually given up on your wife. You have been together with this woman for nearly 15 years. I bet you and she can figure out the end of each other's sentences. I bet she can read you facial expressions, tone of voice and body language better than you think. I would further bet she is fully aware that you have "communicated to her" that you have sexually given up on her. And yet you babble on about wanting x, y and z. You wouldn't do that if you have really given up on her sexually, now would you? So have you given up or are you still trying?

She is getting conflicting messages from you at best. However, her ego has probably been crushed by your giving up on her sexually, which probably pulls the rug out from any attempt on her part to do things to please you. Why bother on her part if you have sexually given up?

Yes, you are part of the problem. And yes you are putting lots of pressure on her, even if you don't know or recognize it.

Now as to helping you. First, I would suggest that you get, read, reread and study two books: M.W. Davis the Sex Starved Marriage and Glover's No More Mr. Nice. Guy. I think you could benefit from both, especially Glover's book where he talks about needy codependent men as not being sexy (i.e. turning women off) and where he describes the problems with covert sexual contracts. 

Second, I would suggest that you and your wife set up some appointments with a really good marriage counselor who is also a board certified sex therapist. Some of the things that really helped my sex starved marriage were the ST having us fill out and share a Yes/No/Maybe list, do Sensate Focus Exercises together (so we could separate our sensual desires from our sexual desires), negotiate and talk/communicate about our sexual/sensual needs to being happy, and create a vision for the kind of marriage that we both want in the future.

Good luck. Your first goal is to understand that you are not the victim of your wife's behaviors, you are partially responsible for some of them. Then the two of you need to work together on changine behavior patterns you have jointly built over many years, which will be difficult.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I can relate for the most part. Married to my wife for 20 years and sex doesn't even cross her mind, and honestly hasn't since our wedding. She sure was up for it though while we dated, including performing oral to me. That hasn't happened since our wedding night either and she tells me oral absolutely disgusts her and she says that it's a porn thing and I should not ask her to do it. Oral on her only happens when I ask to do it but only after she has showered and afterwards I have to wash my face and use mouthwash if I want to kiss her. She rarely if ever initiates and I am tired of being rejected. I honestly think my wife is asexual because she has said before that if she never had sex again it wouldn't bother her, but she does it for me because she loves me, not because she desires it. 

I'm hoping your situation will turn around. Sucks that the only time your wife is into it is when she's high.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

This is a very painful thread to read.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The original post was exhausting for me to read. I see a guy who has a pretty regular sex life and a wife who is at least somewhat open to suggestions but it's never enough. It reads like someone who watches way too much porn.

My guy and I manage do it a few times a week and I love every minute, and i don't mind initiating some of it. But if I had a guy who was pushing for pictures/deep throating/toys/lingerie/dropping my pants before a freaking movie on a regular basis......geez that would get exhausting. OP, please tell me you haven't told your wife how great your ex gf's were. And by the way...those ex's very likely wouldn't have kept that up.

Enjoy the occasion where you get high and freaky. On occasion ask for freaky stuff and enjoy....many women are responsive im their desire so you may well need to initiate. I like flowers but don't get them for me as a covert contract for more porn sex, which by the way is mostly faked anyway. I have a friend in the industry.....

Frankly, while freaky sex can be fun, it just doesn't seem as intimate....at least to me. It has a place.

Lay off the porn and push some boundaries here and there.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Why is it some men "need" sex acts that they would find abhorrent if they were expected to perform them i.e. deepthroating and anal sex. Sexy pics that can find their way to the internet, uh-huh.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


Yeah… don’t know what I can tell you. If she thinks about it every day why isn’t she acting on it?

I’d ask her straight up.

My wife knows I like lingerie, god knows I bought enough of it for her… she rarely wears any. Does it seem like that big an ask? Not to me. It seems trivial. It makes me happy so why not do it?

I have no clue…

I had no problem picking up her Rx at Walgreens at 4:50am today because she asked me to. I didn’t really feel like going out then and doing that.

Put on some lingerie for 20 minutes, that’s just a bridge too far. Why? I don’t know. She won’t give a reasonable answer so I stopped asking and I stopped buying it.

I would think if I was a lady it would be nice if my husband thought I was hot. Instead somehow it’s not good? I don’t get it but the overall message I read as, “not into it”. So if that’s not what she wants to be kicking out she needs to fix her ****. I don’t come to her anymore and haven’t for a while.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Look, women just don't want sex as much as men do, with very few exceptions. When they're young and dating, they're exploring and they're excited and hoping every date is the ideal guy in their head, and that makes them horny. They try things to see if they like them. Sadly, they do not like a lot of them because a lot of them are only pleasurable for men. Sex is not the No. 1 priority for women and it usually drops way off after some time being married and after having kids. You just have to accept that women don't want it as much as men do overall, so there is zero reason why she would start being proactive and initiating sex with more frequency, because she's not the one who wants it all the time. You are. Men are, in general.
> 
> I have to agree with Old Shirt up there. It's young women dating who IF they are ever going to be experimental will be it young and dating, and even then, certainly not all are. And that doesn't last. They don't enjoy BJs. Some find oral a good trade and others would rather not entirely if given the option. You get off on doing things covertly in public, sounds like. Doesn't sound like she does. She's getting high to get you off, just like prostitutes have to stay high to keep doing it.
> 
> ...


Let’s not confuse NRE wearing off and real daily life and responsibilities setting in with not liking sex and not wanting to have a marital sex life.

The OP has an active sex life. From what he is saying, his wife is DTF on a conceptual level.

I don’t think their issue is lack of desire or a sexless marriage.

His issue is he is still wanting the hot and hungry and yearning passion from a 25 year old single woman 15 years ago. 

She is still engaging in and presumably enjoying a functional marital sex life,, just not with the fire and hunger and diversity that he wants. 

To one degree or another all middle aged people together have to navigate these waters.


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## Northern.Guy (10 mo ago)

I wonder what would change if you were thankful for what you have. Does she feel appreciated? She is a person with needs just like you. Your needs might not be exactly what you think they are.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah… don’t know what I can tell you. If she thinks about it every day why isn’t she acting on it?
> 
> I’d ask her straight up.
> 
> ...


Maybe she feels like it's never?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> Maybe she feels like it's never?


Yeah I dunno. She has a lot of resentment from many years ago.

The OP’s story here is very familiar to me. My wife used to do all kinds of stuff she no longer does. I don’t really need any of those things anymore. In wisdom acquired from being a bit older, I don’t need any of those things. I’d LIKE if she wore lingerie but I don’t NEED her to. I don’t need her to do any particular act(s).

What I do need is for her to show up.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Look, women just don't want sex as much as men do, with very few exceptions. When they're young and dating, they're exploring and they're excited and hoping every date is the ideal guy in their head, and that makes them horny. They try things to see if they like them. Sadly, they do not like a lot of them because a lot of them are only pleasurable for men. Sex is not the No. 1 priority for women and it usually drops way off after some time being married and after having kids. You just have to accept that women don't want it as much as men do overall, so there is zero reason why she would start being proactive and initiating sex with more frequency, because she's not the one who wants it all the time. You are. Men are, in general.
> 
> I have to agree with Old Shirt up there. It's young women dating who IF they are ever going to be experimental will be it young and dating, and even then, certainly not all are. And that doesn't last. They don't enjoy BJs. Some find oral a good trade and others would rather not entirely if given the option. You get off on doing things covertly in public, sounds like. Doesn't sound like she does. She's getting high to get you off, just like prostitutes have to stay high to keep doing it.
> 
> ...


And now, guys, you know the truth.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I dunno. She has a lot of resentment from many years ago.
> 
> The OP’s story here is very familiar to me. My wife used to do all kinds of stuff she no longer does. I don’t really need any of those things anymore. In wisdom acquired from being a bit older, I don’t need any of those things. I’d LIKE if she wore lingerie but I don’t NEED her to. I don’t need her to do any particular act(s).
> 
> What I do need is for her to show up.


I didn't mean your wife...I meant OP's wife.

Wanted to make that clear 🙂


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah… don’t know what I can tell you. If she thinks about it every day why isn’t she acting on it?
> 
> I’d ask her straight up.
> 
> ...


I'm wondering with the lingerie, because you hear about the lingerie thing a lot on here, if it's not because they know it turns you on and they already want sex less than you do, so on some level maybe they're just thinking I'm not wearing that because you don't need to be hornier than you already are. 

And then of course with some of them they just feel very self-conscious in it. Some of them are probably thinking they won't look good in it even though you think they will. Or some of them are just thinking that's not their thing and they just don't want to participate in that. I mean it would be kind of pathetic if someone actually yes to wearing it who really didn't have the confidence to carry it off.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I dunno. She has a lot of resentment from many years ago.
> 
> The OP’s story here is very familiar to me. My wife used to do all kinds of stuff she no longer does. I don’t really need any of those things anymore. In wisdom acquired from being a bit older, I don’t need any of those things. I’d LIKE if she wore lingerie but I don’t NEED her to. I don’t need her to do any particular act(s).
> 
> What I do need is for her to show up.


I think if women had to have a choice between their husband thinking they were hot and their husband thinking they were an interesting person who they enjoyed talking to and doing things with, a lot of them would choose number two. I just think women get tired of only being appreciated for their bodies by men in general. So they just don't value that as much as men think they should.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm wondering with the lingerie, because you hear about the lingerie thing a lot on here, if it's not because they know it turns you on and they already want sex less than you do, so on some level maybe they're just thinking I'm not wearing that because you don't need to be hornier than you already are.


This is definitely part of it. If we’re watching TV and the alpha male pills commercial comes on I always say, “Gee that sounds great maybe I need that.” Her reaction is, “Please no… spray some water on yourself or something.”

So she definitely thinks I don’t need it. Which is true by the way, I don’t need it. I want it! I don’t need to drink a Coors Lite tonight but I am going to drink one anyway because I want one.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I just had this happen last night. I told her I wanted to give her oral sex. It got later and later, until I eventually asked if she still wanted it or if she wanted to go to bed instead. She said she was leaning towards bed, so I went to bed myself. 30 minutes later I get up and she's eating cereal on the couch...


So you wanted to do something to her sexually, yet despite you being the one who wanted to do the action. You just passively waited, then waited, some more, then after waiting a bit longer, you doubled down on being passive and asked her if she still wanted what you told her you wanted to do and gave her an out.

So given your behaviour, it would have been apparent to her that you can't have wanted to give her oral sex that much, since well you did nothing except briefly talk about it. Then to add icing to the cake you went to bed!!!!! If I were her, I would have thought, ho-hum I guess he didn't want to do that, so I'll have some cereal instead.

So what happened shouldn't be a surprise to you. Since by being so passive, it's looks like you were wanting her to drive what you wanted to do to her. Yet with her not playing that game, you doubled down on your own passivity to try to wait her out to stroke your own ego.

Which doesn't work.

At the end of the day you'll probably get more sex and more fun, if you try to quell your desire to stroke your own ego at the expense of enjoying a more fulfilling sex life.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I think if women had to have a choice between their husband thinking they were hot and their husband thinking they were an interesting person who they enjoyed talking to and doing things with, a lot of them would choose number two.


It probably depends on the woman, but generally yes I agree. The thing is, I live in a world of AND where you can have one thing but then also have another thing at the same time.

So I can enjoy spending time with my wife and have interesting conversations and such but also want to have sex with her a couple times a day and view her in that way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> This is definitely part of it. If we’re watching TV and the alpha male pills commercial comes on I always say, “Gee that sounds great maybe I need that.” Her reaction is, “Please no… spray some water on yourself or something.”
> 
> So she definitely thinks I don’t need it. Which is true by the way, I don’t need it. I want it! I don’t need to drink a Coors Lite tonight but I am going to drink one anyway because I want one.


Well at least she's up front about it!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> It probably depends on the woman, but generally yes I agree. The thing is, I live in a world of AND where you can have one thing but then also have another thing at the same time.
> 
> So I can enjoy spending time with my wife and have interesting conversations and such but also want to have sex with her a couple times a day and view her in that way.


I understand. I just think it's one of the basic differences between men and women because women get so much attention for just their bodies their whole life that they kind of resent that. I think it's hard for men to grasp that because most of them would be jumping up and down to have women on the street thinking they were hot and all they wanted was sex.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Random thoughts I've had while reading this thread, based on comments made:

Marriage licenses should have expiration dates because women are going to lose interest in sex over time.
The hot girl you're with and want to marry is living in a bubble and will lose her enthusiasm for sex because that's just what women do.
The sexual things that your hot chick does for you while you're dating are done just to hook you into getting married. She really doesn't like doing those things.
When she smiles and decides to give you a blow job, she is forcing herself to do it. She's not doing it because she wants to. She's using it to manipulate you.
"The excitement wears off. It just does. No matter that you stay in shape or you don't. She has other priorities."
Men should be prepared to have extramarital affairs after a number of years because their wives will lose interest in sex, and men need to be satisfied. Women should accept it because it's just what men do.
If a husband asks his wife to meet his other sexual needs, he's really telling her that he's not thankful for what he actually is getting.
 As I saw in a meme on this site somewhere, avoid wedding cake at all costs. It paralyzes women from the waist down.
Now before you start in on me, I do not necessarily subscribe to ANY of these positions. I am simply pondering some of the suggestions and discussions here. Some of them are meant to be sarcastic.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Sfort said:


> Marriage licenses should have expiration dates because women are going to lose interest in sex over time.


At close to 26 years in (almost 23 years married), that's not my experience.



> The hot girl you're with and want to marry is living in a bubble and will lose her enthusiasm for sex because that's just what women do.


Yeh, nope that hasn't happened either.



> The sexual things that your hot chick does for you while you're dating are done just to hook you into getting married. She really doesn't like doing those things.


Again nope. Though my wife and I had great fun way back when, throughout our sexual relationship the things we share still continues to enthusiastically expand over time.



> When she smiles and decides to give you a blow job, she is forcing herself to do it. She's not doing it because she wants to. She's using it to manipulate you.


That's also not my experience.



> "The excitement wears off. It just does. No matter that you stay in shape or you don't. She has other priorities."


Maybe when we're 64 or older? Since there are still lots of times up till now, when we do something sexually and my wife will mention it over and over for days and weeks, telling me how exciting it was.



> Men should be prepared to have extramarital affairs after a number of years because their wives will lose interest in sex, and men need to be satisfied. Women should accept it because it's just what men do.


If anyones spouse regardless of their gender unilaterally decides to turn the shared sex tap off, then they shouldn't be surprised to find that that their partner seeks sex elsewhere.



> If a husband asks his wife to meet his other sexual needs, he's really telling her that he's not thankful for what he actually is getting.


I don't think you believe that, since that certainly isn't always true.



> As I saw in a meme on this site somewhere, avoid wedding cake at all costs. It paralyzes women from the waist down.
> Now before you start in on me, I do not necessarily subscribe to ANY of these positions. I am simply pondering some of


My wife (51) and I (50) share a greater range of terrific sexual activities today, versus what we shared before our wedding cake.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> Let me start by saying that I have no idea how to word this, so be prepared for some rambling. I also might sound selfish, but that's really not where I'm coming from, so please hear me out.
> 
> I know not to judge a current partner based on my past experiences, but I'm having a hard time coming to terms with such a drastic change. Before I met my wife, my sex life was semi adventurous. I had girlfriends that were giving when it came to sex, and they had no problem asking for things they liked. I had more sex, in more places, and I didn't have to ask for things that I liked. When I first met my wife (then girlfriend) she was the same. We had sex when we wanted, where we wanted (within reason) and it was fun. We've now been married for almost 10 years, and together for 15, and she is not the same person sexually that she once was, and I am. Where opportunity should allow for more spontaneous sex lives, she doesn't follow my spirit. An example of this started within the last 10 years, since we bought a house. We have more room, we have a fenced in backyard, we have privacy, and yet we have only had sex in our bedroom and a few times on the couch. To try to spice things up, I have bought toys that don't get used, I have bought lingerie that she says she loves but doesn't wear after trying it on initially, and I try to randomly bring out moments that could be adventurous, like asking her to take off her panties before going into a movie, or to use a panty vibrator when we got out. Those things have also been turned down, and from past experience I know that there isn't a point in asking again. The smallest of these things is me asking her for sexy pictures, which are generally turned down, so I might get them once in a 6 month period.
> 
> ...


Okay @firstnamelastnamehotdog22, I know it can be popular to try to follow scripts on what women want, by doing nonsense like random acts to show love, and giving flowers cards and other gifts etc. Then the whole shctick that a man must be super fit and toned to generate sexual desire. Yet all of that stuff misses the mark, since women are not all uniform and one size doesn't really fit all. As you to, are also missing the mark with your wife.

That said said, my first thoughts are, that you come across as terribly exhausting and needy. Since it shouldn't matter to you, that people recognise that you are a good person, and are attractive, educated, sweet, funny and can possibly do handstands and that people tell your wife all of that. I mean really! Are you some sort of used car that needs to be hard sold to your wife? Since if you're not, and I'm sure you're not. Then your wife doesn't need to be convinced of these things and you needn't feel you ought to worry about such things.

Also on your exhaustive wants and requests, it's okay to cool your heels a lot and ease into things. Plus the fact that you were constantly bringing your sexual wants to your wife, yet then expect her to bring things into fruition while you passively let her make it happen. Does you no favours at all.

Seriously if you want a better sex life, stop trying to use use your shared your sex for validation to assuage your ego. Since what you have shared reads like you have a menu of your wants for her to do, so that you feel good about yourself because she will do ABC and or M and W with you. Which isn't how to nourish a sex life that will see you get to share ABC and or M and W with your wife, without her having to self medicate (get high) in order to go there.

In summation, if you want to be able to nurture a richer (sober) sex life with your wife, you will have to stop using sex for ego gratification. And stop being so passive waiting for your wife to bring you what you want, with little to no consideration of what your wife wants.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Let’s not confuse NRE wearing off and real daily life and responsibilities setting in with not liking sex and not wanting to have a marital sex life.
> 
> The OP has an active sex life. From what he is saying, his wife is DTF on a conceptual level.
> 
> ...


I get this, because I still feel that passion and lust for her, nothing has changed in that aspect for me. She claims it hasn't for her, but her actions say otherwise.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Okay @firstnamelastnamehotdog22, I know it can be popular to try to follow scripts on what women want, by doing nonsense like random acts to show love, and giving flowers cards and other gifts etc. Then the whole shctick that a man must be super fit and toned to generate sexual desire. Yet all of that stuff misses the mark, since women are not all uniform and one size doesn't really fit all. As you to, are also missing the mark with your wife.
> 
> That said said, my first thoughts are, that you come across as terribly exhausting and needy. Since it shouldn't matter to you, that people recognise that you are a good person, and are attractive, educated, sweet, funny and can possibly do handstands and that people tell your wife all of that. I mean really! Are you some sort of used car that needs to be hard sold to your wife? Since if you're not, and I'm sure you're not. Then your wife doesn't need to be convinced of these things and you needn't feel you ought to worry about such things.
> 
> ...


It's presumptuous to say that I have no consideration for what my wife wants, because I ask and follow through with her wants almost totally. I slip up on occasion, but in general I do follow through.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> It probably depends on the woman, but generally yes I agree. The thing is, I live in a world of AND where you can have one thing but then also have another thing at the same time.
> 
> So I can enjoy spending time with my wife and have interesting conversations and such but also want to have sex with her a couple times a day and view her in that way.


Right, why not both? It seems like some people see a lack in one area as a total disregard in others, when in reality it's possible to have a perfectly normal, fulfilling relationship in all areas but one. That one lacking aspect could be very important for one or both parties.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

lifeistooshort said:


> The original post was exhausting for me to read. I see a guy who has a pretty regular sex life and a wife who is at least somewhat open to suggestions but it's never enough. It reads like someone who watches way too much porn.
> 
> My guy and I manage do it a few times a week and I love every minute, and i don't mind initiating some of it. But if I had a guy who was pushing for pictures/deep throating/toys/lingerie/dropping my pants before a freaking movie on a regular basis......geez that would get exhausting. OP, please tell me you haven't told your wife how great your ex gf's were. And by the way...those ex's very likely wouldn't have kept that up.
> 
> ...


I'm guessing it's a common assumption that men must be addicted to porn to have sexual thoughts that involve anything other than missionary sex, followed by a prayer to ask the lord for forgiveness, but porn didn't bring me here. What you seem to be saying is I should take what I can get and not complain, which still doesn't solve my issue. You also assume that I'm asking for all of these things on a regular basis, when I'm generally just seeking an agreement to something more fun and adventurous occasionally, not constantly. Multiple ideas/requests were not mentioned alongside a timeline and specified count.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Young at Heart said:


> Where to start. Yes, you are the issue (in part). Read what you posted and the parts I have highlighted.
> 
> I find it fascinating that two people can talk and both communicate and not communicate at the same time. Let me explain. In your mind you have been telling your wife sexually what you would like. You are assuming that telling her is some how going to make her want to do those things, especially the ones she doesn't care to do. You would be better off finding out the ones she really wants to do or is willing to try every now and then. Many women are reluctant to try something new for fear that their husband will insist on it every time instead of once in a blue moon. Sounds like you special deep throat BJ is something she tried for you, it didn't really float her boat and yet you pressured her to do it again. Do you see how your post says she tried it for you, you asked for it again, she said she couldn't do that, and you rubbed her face in that she did it once so why not again? That is not a good dynamic to make a wife try something new, now is it? Can you understand how after a certain number of those kinds of "trying something new" she just might shut down on trying new things?
> 
> ...


I'm all in with your response, it was very thoughtful and thought provoking, and I'll take it all into consideration. Thank you.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


Why hold your tongue? When she says this stuff, why do you flat out say "Why do THEY do it, but you don't?"
You I think have not been as clear when discussing it with her in terms of how MUCH this affects you.
Don't try to convince her or cajole her. Tell her flat out how YOU feel -- unloved, unappreciated, and honestly, not attractive to her. She SAYS you are, but her actions are showing you otherwise.

You really need to be clear to her how much this is affecting you, how much YOUR emotions are detaching from her.

Also, ask her WHY she has to get high to have sex with you -- why she needs pot to deep throat you, or even be with you. Tell her flat out it's pretty insulting to you that she has to be mind-altered to have sex with you.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm wondering with the lingerie, because you hear about the lingerie thing a lot on here, if it's not because they know it turns you on and they already want sex less than you do, so on some level maybe they're just thinking I'm not wearing that because you don't need to be hornier than you already are.
> 
> And then of course with some of them they just feel very self-conscious in it. Some of them are probably thinking they won't look good in it even though you think they will. Or some of them are just thinking that's not their thing and they just don't want to participate in that. I mean it would be kind of pathetic if someone actually yes to wearing it who really didn't have the confidence to carry it off.


IN all fairness, if you are GOING to have sex with your H anyway (so they will be hornier, but they are going to have sex anyway?), why NOT put on some lingerie if he likes it? It's HIS version of foreplay. It's only going to stay on for a few minutes anyway. If they are worried what they don't look good in it, then it follows they feel they won't look good OUT of it, so --- what is the point here? Sex in the dark?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> It's presumptuous to say that I have no consideration for what my wife wants, because I ask and follow through with her wants almost totally. I slip up on occasion, but in general I do follow through.


So your takeaway from all that I have written is that.


Okay, then I wish you the best of luck going forward.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> And then of course with some of them they just feel very self-conscious in it.* Some of them are probably thinking they won't look good in it* even though you think they will. Or some of them are just thinking that's not their thing and they just don't want to participate in that. *I mean it would be kind of pathetic if someone actually yes to wearing it who really didn't have the confidence to carry it off.*


It seems really unkind to me to make someone parade around in something that makes them feel bad about themselves. I mean why? If they can’t pull it off, isn’t it cruel to constantly make them wear it? It seems like a cruel power game to force them to feel humiliated and ashamed.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> IN all fairness, if you are GOING to have sex with your H anyway (so they will be hornier, but they are going to have sex anyway?), why NOT put on some lingerie if he likes it? It's HIS version of foreplay. It's only going to stay on for a few minutes anyway. If they are worried what they don't look good in it, then it follows they feel they won't look good OUT of it, so --- what is the point here? Sex in the dark?


If wearing it makes a woman feel self conscious in a negative way, then wanting her to wear it, in order to have a sexy time is counterproductive. Since the woman will not be enjoying that sexy time. Of which if someone does not enjoy the sex they share, they are most likely to want to limit that sex they share.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Sometimes I wonder if the nature of sexual desire changes over time for a woman, in a relationship, because sex becomes so much less risky? To what extent could the riskiness (specifically pregnancy) create, or perhaps require the adoption of, a different mindset built around excitement, an assumption of pleasure to offset the risk? When the relationship becomes sufficiently stable, that feeling may substantially decrease.

Guys don’t get pregnant, but even so, I remember the risk of my wife getting pregnant somehow added something to sex.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> It's presumptuous to say that I have no consideration for what my wife wants, because I ask and follow through with her wants almost totally. I slip up on occasion, but in general I do follow through.


A couple of things here: first, don't do stuff for her because you expect reciprocation. Do it because you feel like it, or as part of a dynamic where you each meet the other's need generously (which isn't happening now). If you don't feel like making an effort because you feel your needs are ignored, then stop. If she complains or protests, that is a separate issue to resolve.

Second, while you may feel that a good wife will reward effort with effort, not all women agree with that sentiment - particularly with respect to sex. It's fine for you to feel that way, but you need to have a serious discussion (without being needy) where you feel there is an imbalance between you.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

It's amazing how some guys really don't understand their wife’s sexuality. I didn't either, so I know what I'm talking about...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I'm all in with your response, it was very thoughtful and thought provoking, and I'll take it all into consideration. Thank you.


Your very welcome. It took me quite a while to cure my sex starved marriage. In some respects you are in a better position, because your wife has not looked you in the eye and told you she will never have sex with you again. That happened to me. 

Two of the hardest things to understand were that (1) my sex drive would always be higher than my wife and there was nothing that was likely to change that, so we both needed to negotiate a compromise we could each live with, (2) that I really needed to fully forgive my wife for any anger I held toward her, the rejection I had felt and the pain I had endured. The first step in forgiving her was to apologize to her in recognition that I was part of the problem. Affirmations, visualization and self hypnosis are ways to work on forgiving your wife and building your sexual desire for her in ways that she can emotionally handle.

Good luck.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> My wife knows I like lingerie, god knows I bought enough of it for her… she rarely wears any. Does it seem like that big an ask? Not to me. It seems trivial. It makes me happy so why not do it?


Your wife is not into lingerie. Every time you gave her new duds, you were telling her that she wasn't good enough just the way God made her. How would you like it if when she got in the mood, she gave you a mask to put over your face? Would it make you feel like you're too ugly to screw just the way you are?

Besides, you weren't really gifting her - you bought the stuff for yourself.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> Your wife is not into lingerie. Every time you gave her new duds, you were telling her that she wasn't good enough just the way God made her. How would you like it if when she got in the mood, she gave you a mask to put over your face? Would it make you feel like you're too ugly to screw just the way you are?
> 
> Besides, you weren't really gifting her - you bought the stuff for yourself.


Not the same, but yeah if she’s like hey put on this plastic horse head it does it for me well then get me a carrot and call me Seabiscuit.

As for the gifting aspect yeah of course I got it for me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not the same, but yeah if she’s like hey put on this plastic horse head it does it for me well then get me a carrot and call me Seabiscuit.
> 
> As for the gifting aspect yeah of course I got it for me.


LOL Yeah, it is pretty much the same. As you are already aware, sex is not just sex to your wife - her emotions are wrapped up in it which is why her resentments from years past affect your sex life. 

If you want to see lingerie on your wife, it has to be her idea. Your assignment, grasshopper, is to make her *want *to wear lingerie for you. Good luck with that.


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## Rooster Cogburn (9 mo ago)

Blondilocks said:


> Your wife is not into lingerie. Every time you gave her new duds, you were telling her that she wasn't good enough just the way God made her. How would you like it if when she got in the mood, she gave you a mask to put over your face? Would it make you feel like you're too ugly to screw just the way you are?
> 
> Besides, you weren't really gifting her - you bought the stuff for yourself.


Where in the fresh hell did this comment come from?

It's quite simple... when your man buys you some 'new duds' for the bedroom... why not wear them a time or two? Doesn't have to be every night. 

If we are going to heave all of Christianity into this... did not Adam and Eve fashion a leopard print leotard for hiding their nakedness after the fall? I think that squarely settles the argument on racy lingerie. Even in the jungle. God is pro-lingerie.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Rooster Cogburn said:


> Where in the fresh hell did this comment come from?
> 
> It's quite simple... when your man buys you some 'new duds' for the bedroom... why not wear them a time or two? Doesn't have to be every night.
> 
> If we are going to heave all of Christianity into this... did not Adam and Eve fashion a leopard print leotard for hiding their nakedness after the fall? I think that squarely settles the argument on racy lingerie. Even in the jungle. God is pro-lingerie.


Where in the fresh hell did you come from? Try reading the thread.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> If you want to see lingerie on your wife, it has to be her idea. Your assignment, grasshopper, is to make her *want *to wear lingerie for you. Good luck with that.


She does maybe two days a year.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> LOL Yeah, it is pretty much the same. As you are already aware, sex is not just sex to your wife - her emotions are wrapped up in it which is why her resentments from years past affect your sex life.
> 
> If you want to see lingerie on your wife, it has to be her idea. Your assignment, *grasshopper*, is to make her *want *to wear lingerie for you. Good luck with that.


Grasshopper?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Grasshopper?







__





25 Kung Fu Grasshopper Quotes From The 1970s TV Show | Kidadl


25 Kung Fu Grasshopper Quotes From The 1970s TV Show



kidadl.com


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> IN all fairness, if you are GOING to have sex with your H anyway (so they will be hornier, but they are going to have sex anyway?), why NOT put on some lingerie if he likes it? It's HIS version of foreplay. It's only going to stay on for a few minutes anyway. If they are worried what they don't look good in it, then it follows they feel they won't look good OUT of it, so --- what is the point here? Sex in the dark?


I'm thinking it could be a situation where she wasn't planning on having sex with him anyway. 

And there are actually plenty of people who prefer to have sex with the lights out, especially at night. Who wants the lights in your eyes.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


ah, yes... now that you mention it, I knew it...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I'm guessing it's a common assumption that men must be addicted to porn to have sexual thoughts that involve anything other than missionary sex, followed by a prayer to ask the lord for forgiveness, but porn didn't bring me here. What you seem to be saying is I should take what I can get and not complain, which still doesn't solve my issue. You also assume that I'm asking for all of these things on a regular basis, when I'm generally just seeking an agreement to something more fun and adventurous occasionally, not constantly. Multiple ideas/requests were not mentioned alongside a timeline and specified count.


But why should she place her needs above yours? Her needs is not to do all that for you all the time.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Personal said:


> In summation, if you want to be able to nurture a richer (sober) sex life with your wife, you will have to stop using sex for ego gratification. And stop being so passive waiting for your wife to bring you what you want, with little to no consideration of what your wife wants.


I think many times we like to the think the other person is "the problem" instead of looking at what we can do differently too. Good post. I hope the OP re-reads it.



ccpowerslave said:


> She does maybe two days a year.


Men aren't always the best at picking which lingerie is flattering for a woman's figure. You guys pick what you like, even if it's something that really doesn't work for us. It won't look the same on us as it does on the model, who may have bigger or smaller breasts or butt etc. We know what looks good on us. We know if we have large breasts that a paper thin fabric is not going to work on top, for example. Maybe try picking it out together or just let her pick it out herself...I knew I had finally gotten through when he said, "get something that you feel sexy in."


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> I think many times we like to the think the other person is "the problem" instead of looking at what we can do differently too. Good post. I hope the OP re-reads it.
> 
> 
> 
> Men aren't always the best at picking which lingerie is flattering for a woman's figure. You guys pick what you like, even if it's something that really doesn't work for us. It won't look the same on us as it does on the model, who may have bigger or smaller breasts or butt etc. We know what looks good on us. We know if we have large breasts that a paper thin fabric is not going to work on top, for example. Maybe try picking it out together or just let her pick it out herself...I knew I had finally gotten through when he said, "get something that you feel sexy in."


Yeah. What some men choose for lingerie is more like fetish costuming. 

I remember a while back CCP said he got his wife into underwear made of mesh. I thought it was kind of cute, but I can only imagine how uncomfortable on the nipples that would have been with the open mesh scraping your nipples. And of course it's not underwear at all because it's not supportive and it's not going to be any kind of barrier between you and your clothes. For it to look good on, you would have to have the kind of hard young body that didn't need any support or it would just sag with your boobs or butt unless you have fake boobs. 

The good thing about it is it looks like it would be cool in hot weather, but again you can't wear it as underwear anyway because it doesn't provide any support and it would just be like not wearing a bra under your clothes. You'd be able to see everything and they'd be swinging like a pendulum when you moved. 

CCP, maybe you should get a mesh top for yourself and maybe that would satisfy some of your lingerie craving. They've always made them for men, as far back as I can remember. Doing a quick search a whole bunch came up on Amazon. She may or may not care for it on you, but it might be something you'd enjoy yourself.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> maybe you should get a mesh top for yourself and maybe that would satisfy some of your lingerie craving. They've always made them for men, as far back as I can remember. Doing a quick search a whole bunch came up on Amazon. She may or may not care for it on you, but it might be something you'd enjoy yourself.


Oooohhh... making a new thread on this.

edit: new thread here: How many men dress up for sex?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> Men aren't always the best at picking which lingerie is flattering for a woman's figure.


I think I’m top tier at this.

As an example my wife recently went to get Rx sunglasses and she was trying hideous ones on. I looked at just the frames and I saw one that was similar to a RayBan aviator but more feminine and with a much narrower profile and she looked 10/10 and bought them immediately even though she balked at the price.

She was like how do you pick the right one immediately out of all these frames? I’m like well I pick stuff for a living my taste is immaculate and highly refined.

Her reaction 🙄😒. Sales lady reaction 🤔👎. My reaction 🤩😎.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think I’m top tier at this.


And, you may very well be, but I'm sure most men think that. 

You might have fantastic taste, yet it still might not be for her. Have you ever asked her?

Food for thought.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> And, you may very well be, but I'm sure most men think that.
> 
> You might have fantastic taste, yet it still might not be for her. Have you ever asked her?
> 
> Food for thought.


Yeah she hates g strings and v strings; EXCEPT. I got her a couple from Negative that she was like “hmm this isn’t bad” and I’m like um…. NOT BAD? IT IS DOING ALL THE THINGS! Her: Yes, and it doesn’t even feel that bad.

Worn once.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah she hates g strings and v strings; EXCEPT. I got her a couple from Negative that she was like “hmm this isn’t bad” and I’m like um…. NOT BAD? IT IS DOING ALL THE THINGS! Her: Yes, and it doesn’t even feel that bad.
> 
> Worn once.


G strings are so gross. No one except the 16 year old looks good in them. And they're gross. They are literally a string that goes up your butt. How sexy. About as sexy as a tampon.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> I think I’m top tier at this.
> 
> As an example my wife recently went to get Rx sunglasses and she was trying hideous ones on. I looked at just the frames and I saw one that was similar to a RayBan aviator but more feminine and with a much narrower profile and she looked 10/10 and bought them immediately even though she balked at the price.
> 
> ...


It really does help to bring someone along when trying on glasses!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah she hates g strings and v strings; EXCEPT. I got her a couple from Negative that she was like “hmm this isn’t bad” and I’m like um…. NOT BAD? IT IS DOING ALL THE THINGS! Her: Yes, and it doesn’t even feel that bad.
> 
> Worn once.


Well, okay, it seems you are a hard nut to crack. What part of "she hates g strings and v strings" do you find confusing? You're lucky she wore them once.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah she hates g strings and v strings; EXCEPT. I got her a couple from Negative that she was like “hmm this isn’t bad” and I’m like um…. NOT BAD? IT IS DOING ALL THE THINGS! Her: Yes, and it doesn’t even feel that bad.
> 
> Worn once.


See what you’re saying? “I liked it so her feelings and discomfort don’t matter. The only thing that matters ever is what I want.” 

Imagine she wanted you to wear a tutu during sex. A pink one with glitter. Itchy glitter combined with itchy tulle that makes you feel like an idiot. That is what you’re saying. She should wear something that is uncomfortable and makes her feel bad about herself because for some reason her misery and discomfort turns you on.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Imagine she wanted you to wear a tutu during sex. A pink one with glitter. Itchy glitter combined with itchy tulle that makes you feel like an idiot.


Would wear it gladly but I am a madman so…


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Would wear it gladly but I am a madman so…


I’m trying to honestly explain her perspective. I guess it’s a joke to you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m trying to honestly explain her perspective. I guess it’s a joke to you.


If I had to guess I’d say she just doesn’t feel like it. Which is too bad… In my opinion it’s not a big deal to put on an article of clothing. I don’t ask her to wear anything or buy intimates for her anymore as it was a waste of money.

Why wouldn’t you want your husband to be happy? No clue. I do all kinds of stuff for her to make her happy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> If I had to guess I’d say she just doesn’t feel like it. Which is too bad… In my opinion it’s not a big deal to put on an article of clothing. I don’t ask her to wear anything or buy intimates for her anymore as it was a waste of money.
> 
> Why wouldn’t you want your husband to be happy? No clue. I do all kinds of stuff for her to make her happy.


“Just doesn’t feel it” is dismissive, and enables you to play the victim. And it’s a big deal to put on something that makes you feel ugly. Why wouldn’t you want your wife to feel sexy? Why is it that only your happiness counts? And does it really make you happy to make her feel horrible about herself?

I don’t think you really don’t care about her, I was honestly trying to explain. I think it was a mistake, you don’t seem to really be interested in figuring it out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And it’s a big deal to put on something that makes you feel ugly. Why wouldn’t you want your wife to feel sexy? Why is it that only your happiness counts? And does it really make you happy to make her feel horrible about herself?


It would if she used words and reacted in the way you suggest. Some pieces she actually likes how they look, because they look good. I think she feels it’s “dumb” and she just doesn’t want to. It’s not a priority for her or something she thinks about.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It would if she used words and reacted in the way you suggest. Some pieces she actually likes how they look, because they look good. I think she feels it’s “dumb” and she just doesn’t want to. It’s not a priority for her or something she thinks about.


Well then I was wrong and I’m sorry. She’s being selfish. If I looked good in something that made my husband attracted to me I would wear it all the time. (Well not all the time, we have jobs and a child and sometimes company)


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Why wouldn’t you want your husband to be happy? No clue. I do all kinds of stuff for her to make her happy.


I think most women would jump all over this idea if it were really that easy to make their husband's happy. That's why I think she doesn't like it - or feel good in it. There is a reason. I highly doubt she's thinking, "yeah, that would make him happy so I just won't." 

Women trying to help you out with a female perspective here, dude. There is an underlying issue of some sort here.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> I highly doubt she's thinking, "yeah, that would make him happy so I just won't."


Agree 100%, she doesn’t think about it at all.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm thinking it could be a situation where she wasn't planning on having sex with him anyway.
> 
> And there are actually plenty of people who prefer to have sex with the lights out, especially at night. Who wants the lights in your eyes.


I don't know -- I don't tend to be staring at the lights when they are on -- I have MUCH better things to look at!!!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> But why should she place her needs above yours?


For me (and perhaps the OP and others reading this thread), this has a lot to do with the outside-the-bedroom dynamics. I'm a fairly generous dude and will do stuff simply to make the lady I'm with happy with no expectations. But if my partner asks for (and get) X, Y, and Z that doesn't float my boat then I will feel comfortable asking for what I want and expect some accommodation.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

jlg07 said:


> I don't know -- I don't tend to be staring at the lights when they are on -- I have MUCH better things to look at!!!


Whoever is on the bottom is who gets the glare.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Well then I was wrong and I’m sorry. She’s being selfish. If I looked good in something that made my husband attracted to me I would wear it all the time. (Well not all the time, we have jobs and a child and sometimes company)


Few men would not give you Rockstar status for that. Just that. Anything else would be icing on the cake. As long as it’s not part of a tease that’s never followed through on.

Seriously. You score at the top for that. We aren’t looking for a 17 year old body or pornstar tricks. We live for the feeling that our partner would feel good recognizing something visually sensual that we appreciate and enjoy what pandering(?) to that means.

Somehow I’m sure I’m saying this all wrong and it sounds like a spouses duty is to titillate their partner all the time. It’s not. But to appreciate and enjoy doing so, sometimes , that’s nice.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> For me (and perhaps the OP and others reading this thread), this has a lot to do with the outside-the-bedroom dynamics. I'm a fairly generous dude and will do stuff simply to make the lady I'm with happy with no expectations. But if my partner asks for (and get) X, Y, and Z that doesn't float my boat then I will feel comfortable asking for what I want and expect some accommodation.


Sex isn't really on the table for chore trades with a lot of people, though. I mean, making her happy by doing things she wants may indirectly benefit you, of course, as CCP says it benefits him. Of course, if she asks for something and then you expect something she doesn't want to do bad enough back, then maybe she'll stop asking you for that something!


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Few men would not give you Rockstar status for that. Just that. Anything else would be icing on the cake. As long as it’s not part of a tease that’s never followed through on.
> 
> Seriously. You score at the top for that. We aren’t looking for a 17 year old body or pornstar tricks. We live for the feeling they our partner would feel good recognizing something visually sensual that we appreciate and enjoy what pandering(?) to that means.
> 
> Somehow I’m sure I’m saying this all wrong and it sounds like a spouses duty is to titillate their partner all the time. It’s not. But to appreciate and enjoy doing so, sometimes , that’s nice.


I know the point has been made before that it doesn't count if it's not their own idea, and I agree with that. You can't force them to do things to titillate you or to even decide what that thing will be. You can let them know with positive reinforcement when you like something though, and that is probably the better way, instead of haranguing them to do something that isn't spontaneous to them.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Whoever is on the bottom is who gets the glare.


My wife often puts silk or cloth bandannas over the lamp itself (LED!!!!) and that softens the light, so no real glare.
If too much glare, you need a bigger lamp shade!


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sex isn't really on the table for chore trades with a lot of people, though. I mean, making her happy by doing things she wants may indirectly benefit you, of course, as CCP says it benefits him. Of course, if she asks for something and then you expect something she doesn't want to do bad enough back, then maybe she'll stop asking you for that something!


I just don't get that "IF I do THIS, then I can get sex item E from column 2" type of thing.
Sex is sex. I don't have a trade policy with my wife for this. We both love it, love each other, and get down to business.
Whatever we decide to do that session is talked about -- no issues if you don't want to do A today, B is fine...


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> Agree 100%, she doesn’t think about it at all.


I think this is the issue. It might not be that the OP is doing anything wrong. But, committing to something and then following through (even if you commit in your mind only) takes effort and sometimes people can't be bothered. I look at it as analogous to someone who needs to make that doctor appointment. Yet, there's always something else to take up that mental bandwidth. You just let the day slip away and do what you've always done. Inertia is a powerful force and it takes a real kick sometimes to do differently.

For me, developing cancer was the shock that makes me make sure my meds are taken on time and doctor's visits get done - my quality of life depends on it. Taking this analogy further, maybe the OP needs to find that pain point to drive change.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DTO said:


> For me, developing cancer was the shock that makes me make sure my meds are taken on time and doctor's visits get done - my quality of life depends on it. Taking this analogy further, maybe the OP needs to find that pain point to drive change.


This is what happened to me. 

I knew something was wrong with my situation for a long time and the precipitating event that allowed me to see with clarity was the start of the pandemic. I had been gradually changing for a period of a few years before that since maybe around 2014 at the end of a large creative/business project; but it took something drastic changing in the world for me to really see things differently.

We have a limited time on the planet and we shouldn’t waste it.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Sex isn't really on the table for chore trades with a lot of people, though. I mean, making her happy by doing things she wants may indirectly benefit you, of course, as CCP says it benefits him. Of course, if she asks for something and then you expect something she doesn't want to do bad enough back, then maybe she'll stop asking you for that something!


I'm not talking about trading sex for chores. I'm talking about making the sacrifices a lady wants just to make her happy. For instance, my ex-wife would get the things she requested both little (say, cooking or picking up what she wants for dinner, buying flowers or gifts because she values them) and big (having a pool like she wanted, having pets) that do nothing for me but require often significant effort on my behalf to provide and maintain.

And it's not about expecting a quid pro quo. It's about realizing after a while that you're stepping up consistently but your partner is not. Then if you ask and get rebuffed, it dawns on you that there's an issue to be resolved. Am I doing something to hinder getting what I want? Is my partner just used to getting what he or she wants and doesn't see how much effort goes into it? Or does my partner feel that I (or my requests) are less important / less worthy?


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

jlg07 said:


> I just don't get that "IF I do THIS, then I can get sex item E from column 2" type of thing.
> Sex is sex. I don't have a trade policy with my wife for this. We both love it, love each other, and get down to business.
> Whatever we decide to do that session is talked about -- no issues if you don't want to do A today, B is fine...


As I said, this is not a tit-for-tat or exchange. I don't keep score; wants, needs, and capabilities ebb and flow. I'm talking about realizing that over a significant period of time there is an imbalance in what each partner brings to the other.

Next, I don't draw that "sex is sex" distinction. There are my wants and needs, and her wants and needs; saying that the expectations WRT sex are different is another way of saying that the higher-drive partner's wants and needs matter less or should have lower expectations.

I'm a big fan of NMMNG and am a big believer in making sure you do your part while "taking up space" and making myself count. That does not mean I whine about not getting the sex I want. But, it does mean that I will step up and say "I feel there's a dynamic where you're asking for and getting what you want and then leaving me hanging" and deal with it head-on. If needed, I would follow that up with "it's not your place to judge my wants and needs, nor my place to judge yours" and possibly "if you find it's that hard or unappealing to meet my needs then perhaps we aren't right for each other".

I'll certainly work with my partner to overcome obstacles and achieve mutual satisfaction. But I'll expect my partner to put in effort to make it happen. I'll never again let anyone tell me that my wants and needs are less worthy.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

DTO said:


> Or does my partner feel that I (or my requests) are less important / less worthy?


Also, and this is one of the things I realized… why not just do it? I said no to all kinds of things and thought I was the ****.

I was like nope… I am going to do this instead! I don’t feel like doing that! I said no all the time.

Now I try to say yes.

Is my life better when I say yes? Yes. What do you have to lose by saying yes?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

DTO said:


> I'm not talking about trading sex for chores. I'm talking about making the sacrifices a lady wants just to make her happy. For instance, my ex-wife would get the things she requested both little (say, cooking or picking up what she wants for dinner, buying flowers or gifts because she values them) and big (having a pool like she wanted, having pets) that do nothing for me but require often significant effort on my behalf to provide and maintain.
> 
> And it's not about expecting a quid pro quo. It's about realizing after a while that you're stepping up consistently but your partner is not. Then if you ask and get rebuffed, it dawns on you that there's an issue to be resolved. Am I doing something to hinder getting what I want? Is my partner just used to getting what he or she wants and doesn't see how much effort goes into it? Or does my partner feel that I (or my requests) are less important / less worthy?


I agree, but the truth is there are people who lean more towards giving and those who lean more towards taking, and you have to watch out for that BEFORE you get married. It's usually not just on one subject. But of course, sometimes that makes you more sympatico, but only if you don't resent it.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I think I asked my wife to wear something sexy twice… she didn’t seem to mind. It was great for both of us but it didn’t really happen again after that. I am quite a visual guy. But then she put weight on (kids and whatever) so she got very body conscious so sexy was out of the window. Did I mind? Maybe. Never thought about it properly. I was happy we were having sex. Fat bottom in skimpy underwear? Well, yes please… I loved it, regardless.. 🙂


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree, but the truth is there are people who lean more towards giving and those who lean more towards taking, and you have to watch out for that BEFORE you get married. It's usually not just on one subject. But of course, sometimes that makes you more sympatico, but only if you don't resent it.


Ideally yes. But people do change, especially once kids are in the picture.

And, the OP must deal with the situation at hand. Doesn't make this advice less valid, although the stakes are higher.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Well, unfortunately, unless you have this:


Casual Observer said:


> 17 year old body or pornstar tricks


You're out of luck, so the fact that I'm willing doesn't mean I'm able. But it was nice of you to say kind things about my intent.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I agree, but the truth is there are people who lean more towards giving and those who lean more towards taking, and you have to watch out for that BEFORE you get married. It's usually not just on one subject. But of course, sometimes that makes you more sympatico, but only if you don't resent it.


Truth. Not enough people treat their spouses the way they want to be treated. If more people did that, more people would be happy. Unfortunately, society isn't geared that way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Truth. Not enough people treat their spouses the way they want to be treated. If more people did that, more people would be happy. Unfortunately, society isn't geared that way.


There are some good balance relationships with some of the people on this forum. In real life a lot of the ones I've seen have been very unbalanced.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Look, women just don't want sex as much as men do, with very few exceptions.


Respectfully, generalizing to all of a gender through all cultures is a stretch. My wife has always been into it every bit ss much as me. There have been times as recently as a year ago when keeping up with her was a challenge. 

She has friends around our age who are constantly pushing on their old man for more intimacy. Maybe these are the very few exceptions, but I really doubt it.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Respectfully, generalizing to all of a gender through all cultures is a stretch. My wife has always been into it every bit ss much as me. There have been times as recently as a year ago when keeping up with her was a challenge.
> 
> She has friends around our age who are constantly pushing on their old man for more intimacy. Maybe these are the very few exceptions, but I really doubt it.


I've always said there are exceptions, but overall I believe it's true.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Truth. Not enough people treat their spouses the way they want to be treated. If more people did that, more people would be happy. Unfortunately, society isn't geared that way.


You mean, they don’t treat their spouses the way they’d like to be treated themselves? Or the opposite?

I think a huge issue for many is the inability to be understand what’s special to the spouse, as opposed to doing something for the spouse that has meaning to the person giving, as opposed to the person receiving.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*MODERATOR WARNING *Please stop the threadjacking.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> why can't she do the simplest of things for me to make me feel loved and desired in the way I need?


I doubt that she understands your requests in this way. I think you need to speak more directly and let her know that this is exactly how you feel. I don't think most women intentionally avoid doing what makes their man happy/feel good/be fulfilled. Men and women just think very differently, and we can't read minds.




firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> We just talk about what we like, which is what I thought you were supposed to do in a marriage, and I wait for her to try any of them at any time.


Waiting for her to try something when she is not the forward type is an exercise in frustration. She probably doesn't even know you're waiting. She's probably thinking "okay, he said he wants X but he hasn't even tried to get it." You may need to get her motor running first and then gently nudge her towards those activities.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

@firstnamelastnamehotdog22 It feels like you both have an issue of understanding where the other is, what's actually special for your spouse. Each of you are thinking in terms of what you can do for your spouse, that you would enjoy yourself. You're not meeting your spouse where they are; you're meeting them where you are. It's kind of a selfish thing, offering up what makes sense to you, not your partner. If that's the route you want your relationship to go, that's fine, but then each of you are stuck into thinking about what might have been instead of what can be. You'll each be thinking in terms of why he or she isn't getting it, and in a way, retaliating, thinking it's intentional because they know what you want.

For some reason conversation along these lines was deemed a threadjack. Not sure why; I think it's the core issue here.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DTO said:


> A couple of things here: first, don't do stuff for her because you expect reciprocation. Do it because you feel like it, or as part of a dynamic where you each meet the other's need generously (which isn't happening now). If you don't feel like making an effort because you feel your needs are ignored, then stop. If she complains or protests, that is a separate issue to resolve.
> 
> Second, while you may feel that a good wife will reward effort with effort, not all women agree with that sentiment - particularly with respect to sex. It's fine for you to feel that way, but you need to have a serious discussion (without being needy) where you feel there is an imbalance between you.


I would like to echo what you just advised. In Glover's book NMMNG, the second point is called a covert contract and is a source of lots of marital frustration. The first point is related to the first, but I would urge caution. 

If one feels that your sexual needs are ignored, then you really need to have a candid discussion. Avoiding that discussion can create damage that will take a long time to undo. It can create resentment on your part. It can confuse one's partner into thinking that you are OK with what is going on. It can create bad habits that will take a long time to cure. But most of all in the wrong mindset it can create a situation where one member of a couple will weaponize the used of sex when they stop. Sex should never be a weapon in marriage.

Again, great insight into covert contracts and the damage they cause.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> I would like to echo what you just advised. In Glover's book NMMNG, the second point is called a covert contract and is a source of lots of marital frustration. The first point is related to the first, but I would urge caution.
> 
> If one feels that your sexual needs are ignored, then you really need to have a candid discussion. Avoiding that discussion can create damage that will take a long time to undo. It can create resentment on your part. It can confuse one's partner into thinking that you are OK with what is going on. It can create bad habits that will take a long time to cure. But most of all in the wrong mindset it can create a situation where one member of a couple will weaponize the used of sex when they stop. Sex should never be a weapon in marriage.
> 
> Again, great insight into covert contracts and the damage they cause.


Thank you. One thing I forgot to mention is that if you have a situation (as I did) where your partner feels okay knowingly not meeting your intimate needs but getting his or her own met because "sex is different", seriously consider leaving the relationship.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Personal said:


> So your takeaway from all that I have written is that.
> 
> 
> Okay, then I wish you the best of luck going forward.


Oh no, I read the rest, it's just that your snarky assumption at the end made me question your motives.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> Oh no, I read the rest, it's just that your snarky assumption at the end made me question your motives.


I'm glad you read the rest and it's good to see you back.

The thing is you lost weight and took pictures to show her, and nothing changed. It didn't get you the sex you were hoping for and on and on with the rest.

You're doing what lots of guys who don't have the sex lives they want and getting exactly that because they like you are coming at this wrong.

I have an extraordinarily great sex life that has never waned, and it is no accident that this is the case.

I am blunt with you, because as a man I presume you can take being talked to as a man.

But if that's not for you, that's absolutely okay, you really are welcome to carry on as you are.

Best of luck.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> I'm all for it, except it only happens once a week, and we can't do it during the week because of other responsibilities. I also want to avoid the munchies as much as possible.


The responsibility you have to your wife and she has to you is far greater than whatever responsiblities you have going on during the week, but yes, munchies do mess up my diet but i'd rather be fat than not have that time with my wife.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Personal said:


> I'm glad you read the rest and it's good to see you back.
> 
> The thing is you lost weight and took pictures to show her, and nothing changed. It didn't get you the sex you were hoping for and on and on with the rest.
> 
> ...


Yes, also another snarky comment at the end of what could have been a poignant comment. If "being blunt" is code for "I'm a total asshole to those seeking help" then I don't want you to be blunt or try to help. Keep your comments to yourself.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

Casual Observer said:


> @firstnamelastnamehotdog22 It feels like you both have an issue of understanding where the other is, what's actually special for your spouse. Each of you are thinking in terms of what you can do for your spouse, that you would enjoy yourself. You're not meeting your spouse where they are; you're meeting them where you are. It's kind of a selfish thing, offering up what makes sense to you, not your partner. If that's the route you want your relationship to go, that's fine, but then each of you are stuck into thinking about what might have been instead of what can be. You'll each be thinking in terms of why he or she isn't getting it, and in a way, retaliating, thinking it's intentional because they know what you want.
> 
> For some reason conversation along these lines was deemed a threadjack. Not sure why; I think it's the core issue here.


I appreciate this comment, and you are correct. I feel like my needs are expressed explicitly, and I try my best to get the information from her to fulfill her needs. The problem, at least with sex, is she "doesn't know" what she wants. I started therapy and one of the suggestions was to use Gottman card decks. They provide the questions, we just ask and discuss. Her response to the first three were "I don't know" so she either truly doesn't know what turns her on sexually, or she just doesn't want to think about it and find out. I feel like being a man makes me want to fix the situation, but I don't know what to do about someone who doesn't know what turns them on and is also reluctant to try things in order to find out.


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## firstnamelastnamehotdog22 (9 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> I doubt that she understands your requests in this way. I think you need to speak more directly and let her know that this is exactly how you feel. I don't think most women intentionally avoid doing what makes their man happy/feel good/be fulfilled. Men and women just think very differently, and we can't read minds.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you're 100% correct. She has actually made that point before, saying she doesn't know when to do something, or what to do, because she doesn't know what I want at any given time. You're definitely onto something. The issue is that we've discussed this exact thing, and I don't have expectations of when and where, just that she shows interest, or talks about it, or tries anything on her own. Or is receptive to me being spontaneous.


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## Goo (9 mo ago)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> Let me start by saying that I have no idea how to word this, so be prepared for some rambling. I also might sound selfish, but that's really not where I'm coming from, so please hear me out.
> ...
> I know not to judge a current partner based on my past experiences, but I'm having a hard time coming to terms with such a drastic change....
> ... so why can't she do the simplest of things for me to make me feel loved and desired in the way I need? Someone help me out here.


You're being selfish and have a lot of demands. Who takes off their underpants to go to the movies heh that made me laugh. It's unsanitary. If you have sex pretty regularly and she respects you and loves you that's enough. You mix love and lust and wrote an essay about all your needs and they're all sexual. You may be a sex addict.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Goo said:


> Who takes off their underpants to go to the movies heh that made me laugh. It's unsanitary.


My wife has/does, as has my ex-wife and some other former girlfriends, just saying'. 😉


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> Let me start by saying that I have no idea how to word this, so be prepared for some rambling. I also might sound selfish, but that's really not where I'm coming from, so please hear me out.
> 
> I know not to judge a current partner based on my past experiences, but I'm having a hard time coming to terms with such a drastic change. Before I met my wife, my sex life was semi adventurous. I had girlfriends that were giving when it came to sex, and they had no problem asking for things they liked. I had more sex, in more places, and I didn't have to ask for things that I liked. When I first met my wife (then girlfriend) she was the same. We had sex when we wanted, where we wanted (within reason) and it was fun. We've now been married for almost 10 years, and together for 15, and she is not the same person sexually that she once was, and I am. Where opportunity should allow for more spontaneous sex lives, she doesn't follow my spirit. An example of this started within the last 10 years, since we bought a house. We have more room, we have a fenced in backyard, we have privacy, and yet we have only had sex in our bedroom and a few times on the couch. To try to spice things up, I have bought toys that don't get used, I have bought lingerie that she says she loves but doesn't wear after trying it on initially, and I try to randomly bring out moments that could be adventurous, like asking her to take off her panties before going into a movie, or to use a panty vibrator when we got out. Those things have also been turned down, and from past experience I know that there isn't a point in asking again. The smallest of these things is me asking her for sexy pictures, which are generally turned down, so I might get them once in a 6 month period.
> 
> ...


While I do understand that you are suffering from a lack of interest in sex with your wife, I didn't read anything in here about how much you love to participate in just your wife's pleasure. 

Who cums when you are on the receiving end of a BJ? A lot of your post talks about BJ. Are you aware that BJ is all about you and your O? You are wanting your wife to focus your sex life centered around BJ? 

Do you believe that your wife cums doing doggie style? (the clitoris is the pleasure point of orgasm for women - some women are able to have a semi-orgasm with doggie sex but the biggest percentage of women need clitoral stimulation) I'm going to go out on a huge limb here and say that the possible reason your wife is exhibiting that doggie style is her go-to - is because she has given up in her mind that she will get the clitoral stimulation she needs to orgasm - and just feels that you are after your own O - so she just wants to get to the part that she feels is the most important to you. She has given up on fulfilling her own pleasure. More on that in a minute.

Did you realize that your wife is throwing you BIG information when she asks for a hug?

One of the things that I feel like I'm hearing is that there may be a perception within your wife that all these things you do for her all have the ulterior motive of you getting sex. Your expectations wherever you go with her - like the 10th anniversary trip - are about how you can amp up the sex.

"Steak and BJ Day" - wow, terrific. Bet she was looking forward to that. I want to flip the table a sec here and ask you if you were hit with only pleasuring her without ending with an O yourself, how often would you feel like having sex?

Insofar as the picture thing - men are generally and widely thought to be very visual. But that isn't the generally and widely accepted genre for women. It's even a bit of a joke that women get these d*ck pics and are rolling their eyes. This is NOT something that is pleasuring your wife - or else she would enthusiastically agree to do it.

Which brings me to "enthusiastically agree" - sexual interactions between a husband and wife is still about enthusiastic agreement. If your wife isn't in that mode, I assure you there is something amiss in your relationship where she has given up on ever being treated like she has any say or right to her own pleasure. When I read your words here, I sense you are communicating that you are deprived YOURSELF. But not once have you posted anything about knowing what HER pleasures are. And I'm saying all this not with the intent of putting you down - but the intent of enlightening you. You have to be willing to completely set aside what you think you know about your wife's pleasure and start completely over.

If you are willing to strip away your pre-conceptions and be an empty cup open to learning about the minds of women in general when it comes to addressing their own pleasure - owning it, accepting it, exploring it - then the Netflix special on the Principles of Pleasure is a documentary that explains the situation that women face when it comes to sex. Now, the doc explores a lot of different women - women of color, trans, bi, gay - but also hetero - with principles that apply to women in general.

In our societies, women's pleasure is secondary to the pleasure of men. Sure, you can find exceptions - but by and large, MOST women are trained to please men. You see it in every aspect of life. We are cheerleaders for mens's sports, the sexy dressed side-kick for men who conquering the world in movies, and the empty-headed body in porn focused on bending over or opening our mouths so men can have O's - even being slapped around and passed around like a rag doll.

Why do women put up with this? Because they are trained from a young age to do so. Their role models are other women who have spent their lives doing these subservient roles. And women who stand up for themselves are called ugly names and considered to be "ball-busters" while men who are in dominant roles are viewed as strong, powerful and highly admired.

The movement of #metoo is very, very slowly changing things. Women have HAD it and are fighting back against the mistreatment. And we compare this mistreatment to the point of saying "Well, I don't do THAT to my wife."

And women say to themselves, "Well I don't get treated BADLY." So, the gray area of women who are stuck in accepting their lives without embracing their rights to pleasure, justify their mindset with "things aren't THAT bad."

I put to you that your wife has an incredible potential for pleasure - her OWN - that is not centered around YOURS. It's a huge leap for you to turn your mind around and look at your wife and truly _see_ her. It must be extremely difficult for men to even begin this journey - because it's already difficult for WOMEN to begin this journey. We have not been taught that it's okay in any way. The locked rooms in our minds are barriers to allowing ourselves to think in terms of "Hey, pleasure is not only okay, but it's a human right and I am human."

I know I asked my own husband to watch Principles of Pleasure with me - at several points, he fell asleep. Then, I just said, "I'd really like it if you could watch this in your own time, please. It's important." The discussions cover everything I have said to him and tried to get him to understand. 

But no matter how many times I have tried to talk to him about what pleasures me (hugs, funny conversations, foot rubs, just touching me all over with no intent to lead to sex), he does not understand the sexual aspects of how women approach sex. 

If women and sex is confusing, I totally get it - but allow me to explain. If you take a woman on a date and she's into you, that whole preparation for the date and all the conversation and flirting goes on over a period of TIME. If it looks like she is hot and ready after all of that prep - it's because of all of that prep. Also, women are trained to pleasure men. And women like to be liked. Sex is often a way of receiving what they may perceive as love - however briefly. That attention and adoration may only last a short time, but it's often better to them than nothing. So, they may be willing to do BJ's in exchange for the brief attention and adoration. Then comes the often expected disconnect - and the women just hit repeat with a different guy. Chasing love in all the wrong places.

Deep abiding relationships require a lot of work. The myth of spontaneous desire only happens in the movies. We all judge ourselves by that. We also judge ourselves by porn. When we pull back that curtain and truly realize the impact on recorded, observational sex on the people participating (and that their motivation to do so is money), then we can demolish these fantasies out of our real life sex lives.

I feel like it would be so impactful if my husband could find pleasure in giving me pleasure also. But it's just a "task" - a punch in a ticket towards sex - and I know it. There's this rush to get to the "good part" and skip over the lead-up. I can't get a warm loving hug without that little "ooooOOOOOUUUU, yeah, baby" response. I want him to fully understand that conversation is foreplay - even if the conversation isn't about sex - it's about SEEING the other person, having a true connection. Sexual release may or may not be how men perceive love and connection - but for women, it's about so much more. It's about feeling safe, which is paramount for women opening themselves up to the vulnerability of sex. It's about trusting that other person to respect and honor how the WOMAN experiences pleasure - and not assuming that the pleasure is about a man's organ. Women perceive sex with their minds. They build their desire in their minds. And they are often made to feel ashamed of the ways they perceive and receive pleasure.

Countless times I read how men write degrading comments about how "She wants me to rub her feet and have a CONVERSATION" like it it some kind of trick or task akin to cleaning out a horse stall. What I would say to men is that: the men out there who truly enjoy all the ways of pleasuring a woman - THESE are the men who are having amazing sex with women. Finding a string of women who appear to just love giving BJ's - what is behind that are women who get what they believe they are only entitled to - that short span of pseudo love and attention they are chasing. Afterwards, they are empty and lacking in the ability to pursue and own their own pleasure. 

And just FYI, the clitoris is like your penis - be it but small. It's powerful and filled with pleasure sensors so sensitive, there are times you can even touch it. Famously, the movie Deep Throat teased that the star of that movie had a clit in her throat. I can't help but wonder which guy fantasy came up with that idea. A BJ ultimately is only about the guy. I think women probably don't mind doing this to some degree - but after awhile, if that is the guy's highest priority fantasy and way of having sex, it's completely selfish. He can act grateful and happy all he wants, but on the flip side, it's selfish sex. And for some women who wake up and realize that the sex they are having is one-sided, in their minds, they finally just find ways to passively stop doing it. It's not about that they don't want to interact with a pleasurable sexual encounter - it's that the entire approach is one-sided, as is doggie sex. A woman's mind will eventually tell her she's just a vessel. You can argue that isn't true all you want - but I'm telling you this from the other side, the receiving end. 

This information may be a 2X4 between the eyes. But, seriously, if you are wanting something different in your relationship, you will lean forward and watch Principles of Pleasure and take notes. Open yourself up to the woman's experience and set aside everything you think you know. Women are amazing. And if you cultivate a genuine interest in your wife and focus on the things that enhance her connection with you - patiently and authentically - you are in for a whole new world of a relationship. If you are impatient at any point, she will recoil. She's lived a life of setting aside her own pleasure and it will take a huge change on your part for her to trust that you are sincere and that she is deserving of the pleasure she can't allow herself to pursue. 



Principles of Pleasure


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## Leeame (Apr 13, 2021)

Wait a minute- she had to ask you for a hug when she gets home from work? That wasn't an automatic thing for you? You are asking for blowjob's and adventure in your sex life and she's asking you for a hug. That should tell you all you need to know. Step up your affection and romance game. Women are not all horny they are emotional creatures and they need foreplay in the form of a deep connection to feel sexy and uninhibited. 
Get high and munch on carrot sticks. Rules? Schedules? Ugh you are taking all the fun out of sex. Stop. Take care of the emotional connection. Make her feel like you want more than sex from her and she'll give you more sex.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Leeame said:


> Make her feel like you want more than sex from her and she'll give you more sex.


Could be worded "She'll want to seek mutual pleasure with you."

See how we all are? When we view sex with men as something we give them and not something we participate in mutually and enthusiastically, it's considered a thing women have that they give up for him. A new viewpoint needs to be carved out where women and men connect in ways that are humane.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

happiness27 said:


> Could be worded "She'll want to seek mutual pleasure with you."
> 
> See how we all are? When we view sex with men as something we give them and not something we participate in mutually and enthusiastically, it's considered a thing women have that they give up for him. A new viewpoint needs to be carved out where women and men connect in ways that are humane.


I've always thought this. Great response!


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> There are a lot of different things to discuss in your posts.
> 
> One note I will make about the above is that in 26 years of marriage I have never once simply asked my wife is she wants to have sex or if she wants to do this or that.
> 
> ...


THIS IS THE BEST AND MOST ACCURATE RESPONSE!


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> She probably flat out doesn’t really think about sex, ever. My wife doesn’t.
> 
> What she does think about (now) is that I won’t tolerate it for long; because I told her that. You need to pull your self esteem out of the junk heap and dust it off.
> 
> ...


Anyone that stomped his feet and demanded sex then held divorce over my head as a consequence of not responding would be signing divorce papers real quick.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

center1 said:


> Anyone that stomped his feet and demanded sex then held divorce over my head as a consequence of not responding would be signing divorce papers real quick.


That would have been a fine outcome.


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> Let me start by saying that I have no idea how to word this, so be prepared for some rambling. I also might sound selfish, but that's really not where I'm coming from, so please hear me out.
> 
> I know not to judge a current partner based on my past experiences, but I'm having a hard time coming to terms with such a drastic change. Before I met my wife, my sex life was semi adventurous. I had girlfriends that were giving when it came to sex, and they had no problem asking for things they liked. I had more sex, in more places, and I didn't have to ask for things that I liked. When I first met my wife (then girlfriend) she was the same. We had sex when we wanted, where we wanted (within reason) and it was fun. We've now been married for almost 10 years, and together for 15, and she is not the same person sexually that she once was, and I am. Where opportunity should allow for more spontaneous sex lives, she doesn't follow my spirit. An example of this started within the last 10 years, since we bought a house. We have more room, we have a fenced in backyard, we have privacy, and yet we have only had sex in our bedroom and a few times on the couch. To try to spice things up, I have bought toys that don't get used, I have bought lingerie that she says she loves but doesn't wear after trying it on initially, and I try to randomly bring out moments that could be adventurous, like asking her to take off her panties before going into a movie, or to use a panty vibrator when we got out. Those things have also been turned down, and from past experience I know that there isn't a point in asking again. The smallest of these things is me asking her for sexy pictures, which are generally turned down, so I might get them once in a 6 month period.
> 
> ...





ccpowerslave said:


> That would have been a fine outcome.


if that’s fine with you, then you should divorce her. You don’t sound like you care much about your marriage. Let her go and find happiness. And you go find what you’re looking for.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

center1 said:


> if that’s fine with you, then you should divorce her. You don’t sound like you care much about your marriage. Let her go and find happiness. And you go find what you’re looking for.


I didn’t have to. But if that’s what she said I was prepared for that as an outcome and it would have been fine. I mean sometimes people are done and they’re not attracted anymore or whatever so if that was the case then I was cool with it.


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> The original post was exhausting for me to read. I see a guy who has a pretty regular sex life and a wife who is at least somewhat open to suggestions but it's never enough. It reads like someone who watches way too much porn.
> 
> My guy and I manage do it a few times a week and I love every minute, and i don't mind initiating some of it. But if I had a guy who was pushing for pictures/deep throating/toys/lingerie/dropping my pants before a freaking movie on a regular basis......geez that would get exhausting. OP, please tell me you haven't told your wife how great your ex gf's were. And by the way...those ex's very likely wouldn't have kept that up.
> 
> ...


Agreed! He sounds really immature.


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## center1 (Jan 25, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> I didn’t have to. But if that’s what she said I was prepared for that as an outcome and it would have been fine. I mean sometimes people are done and they’re not attracted anymore or whatever so if that was the case then I was cool with it.


It’s more about your demanding sex than anything.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

center1 said:


> It’s more about your demanding sex than anything.


There is no demand for sex. It’s that if you want to be married then part of that is sex. My wife agreed with this.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> There is no demand for sex. It’s that if you want to be married then part of that is sex. My wife agreed with this.


This is a key counter-point. Men have to woo women and connect, and make sex mutually pleasurable. Women have to prioritize that connection and not let other stuff constantly get in the way or check out once her needs are met.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I've always thought this. Great response!


Thought that sex should be humane, cage & GMO free? Agreed!

But we’re getting into that whole “orgasm gap” thing here and it’s not always the guy who’s entirely responsible. Sometimes there’s manipulation involved, a woman finding a need to minimize her own response to sexuality out of guilt.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

center1 said:


> if that’s fine with you, then you should divorce her. You don’t sound like you care much about your marriage. Let her go and find happiness. And you go find what you’re looking for.


Then you don't know @ccpowerslave .


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DTO said:


> Men have to woo women and connect, and make sex mutually pleasurable. Women have to prioritize that connection and not let other stuff constantly get in the way or check out once her needs are met.


The key is as @ccpowerslave decided, neither men nor women 'have' to do anything that they don't want to do. Either gender that doesn't care to be intimate with someone they are married to also needs to realize their spouse isn't obligated to stay married. There is a reaction to every action.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> The key is as @ccpowerslave decided, neither men nor women 'have' to do anything that they don't want to do. Either gender that doesn't care to be intimate with someone they are married to also needs to realize their spouse isn't obligated to stay married. There is a reaction to every action.


Yes.

A critical component in this is trying to figure out what is missing (if anything) from your own side and get your own house in order before approaching your partner. If you’re fairly certain you haven’t left any stones unturned then what’s left?

At that point it’s just a decision. 

If one partner wants intimacy and the other doesn’t well maybe it’s best to go their separate ways. There doesn’t have to be any animosity or malice involved; whatever was working doesn’t work anymore.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> A critical component in this is trying to figure out what is missing (if anything) from your own side and get your own house in order before approaching your partner.


A follow on IMO is that neither gender should have to try to 'figure out' what is missing. Conversations between two adults ought to reveal what is missing. Of course the fly in the ointment is people get their feelings hurt easily when presented the truth. The wife tells the husband 'muscles really turn me on and you don't have any', or the husband tells the wife 'you have gained so much weight I am no longer attracted'. Either may realize the truth in what they are told but can't get past the hurt feelings to work the problem.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Then you don't know @ccpowerslave .


I agree. 

He's a very loving husband.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

lifeistooshort said:


> I agree.
> 
> He's a very loving husband.


Aww…


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Aww…


We women have a nose for these things 😁


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> I think many times we like to the think the other person is "the problem" instead of looking at what we can do differently too. Good post. I hope the OP re-reads it.
> 
> 
> 
> Men aren't always the best at picking which lingerie is flattering for a woman's figure. You guys pick what you like, even if it's something that really doesn't work for us. It won't look the same on us as it does on the model, who may have bigger or smaller breasts or butt etc. We know what looks good on us. We know if we have large breasts that a paper thin fabric is not going to work on top, for example. Maybe try picking it out together or just let her pick it out herself...I knew I had finally gotten through when he said, "get something that you feel sexy in."


Actually men are better at picking out lingerie for 2 reasons:
1. We know what we like to see.
2. A Wife wearing lingerie should be for her Husband anyway.

Also a lot of women do not know what looks good on them. This is why we see so many ill dressed people out in public. Most people in general don't know what looks good. And I can't tell you how many times I've seen women with silly lingerie on - like black stockings with white shoes, or lace granny panties. We don't like that, it looks crazy. Lingerie should make the woman FEEL sexy, yes. But, ultimately, it's for the man.

These are the types of things that men have been shamed into being silent about. It's ridiculous. If he wants her to wear what he picks out and he thinks it looks sexy on her, then that's what it is. And when she wants him to do something that's ultimately for her, then he should do that as well. That's what real compromise and SELFLESSNESS is in a marriage - not just the woman controlling everything. That need to control is something that guys really need to be aware of in a woman, and simply stop dealing with controlling women.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

center1 said:


> Anyone that stomped his feet and demanded sex then held divorce over my head as a consequence of not responding would be signing divorce papers real quick.


Most last stage communications believe it or not do not involve stomping feet and demanding things but get there the after the point of if mutually happy sex is off the table so decisions have to be made as a result of issues over time.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Music4Life said:


> not just the woman controlling everything. That need to control is something that guys really need to be aware of in a woman, and simply stop dealing with controlling women.


Wow, wanting to wear what we feel sexy in is now controlling?

Who knew?

The irony, a controlling post trying to shame others for being controlling. 😄

As to the OP, I still think better communication would be helpful.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

theloveofmylife said:


> Wow, wanting to wear what we feel sexy in is now controlling?
> 
> Who knew?


well you know if you want to choose your clothes, food, job, or how you spend your time you are very controlling.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Anastasia6 said:


> well you know if you want to choose your clothes, food, job, or how you spend your time you are very controlling.



But....but.....women in porn like what they're told to like!

Sorry....couldn't resist 😅

It is of course nice to wear things your guy likes, but there's got to be some balance.

Good thing my guy isn't demanding I wear hooker heels....I'd have to be controlling and say no. But there are other things I would do for him.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lifeistooshort said:


> But....but.....women in porn like what they're told to like!
> 
> Sorry....couldn't resist 😅
> 
> ...


I dig it. 
Although I do like the W in heels. She has great legs. Heels aren't a necessity but I like them now and then.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Wife has impeccable taste in clothing. I like her to wear what she likes to wear, always have. Of course in our private time, no clothing is our preference.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

center1 said:


> Anyone that stomped his feet and demanded sex then held divorce over my head as a consequence of not responding would be signing divorce papers real quick.


I hope "stomped his feet" was a metaphorical usage. You do understand these last-ditch efforts are not dramatic confrontations, I hope.

What then do you suggest? If your partner has a long-standing issue that you know about but have not worked to resolve, should he read the writing on the wall, divorce, and move on? Should he assume you simply are uninterested in fixing it?


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## punkrockwife (8 mo ago)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


I am the same way as her, but I know mine stems from being turned down so many times I just don’t try. Maybe a past partner has done this to her as well.


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## Music4Life (9 mo ago)

theloveofmylife said:


> Wow, wanting to wear what we feel sexy in is now controlling?
> 
> Who knew?
> 
> ...


Well you just proved my point. While also conveniently missing the point that the principle I described applies in reverse as well. Lingerie is ultimately for the man. A lot of women would be so much better off with their man if they stop fighting everything he says. If he says he likes it on her - she should roll with it.


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## Bea22 (9 mo ago)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Look, women just don't want sex as much as men do, with very few exceptions. When they're young and dating, they're exploring and they're excited and hoping every date is the ideal guy in their head, and that makes them horny. They try things to see if they like them. Sadly, they do not like a lot of them because a lot of them are only pleasurable for men. Sex is not the No. 1 priority for women and it usually drops way off after some time being married and after having kids. You just have to accept that women don't want it as much as men do overall, so there is zero reason why she would start being proactive and initiating sex with more frequency, because she's not the one who wants it all the time. You are. Men are, in general.
> 
> I have to agree with Old Shirt up there. It's young women dating who IF they are ever going to be experimental will be it young and dating, and even then, certainly not all are. And that doesn't last. They don't enjoy BJs. Some find oral a good trade and others would rather not entirely if given the option. You get off on doing things covertly in public, sounds like. Doesn't sound like she does. She's getting high to get you off, just like prostitutes have to stay high to keep doing it.
> 
> ...


Not all women.... I'm married to a sexuality cold husnad and it's the other way around with me. He says no because of headaches 😏😏 it's so sad to read about someone feeling unwanted sexually because it hurts and it breaks down your self esteem. Don't have advice just know you're not alone..


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Music4Life said:


> Actually men are better at picking out lingerie for 2 reasons:
> 1. We know what we like to see.
> 2. A Wife wearing lingerie should be for her Husband anyway.
> 
> ...


A man who dictates what their woman wears is the controlling one of the two and way out of his lane.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Bea22 said:


> Not all women.... I'm married to a sexuality cold husnad and it's the other way around with me. He says no because of headaches 😏😏 it's so sad to read about someone feeling unwanted sexually because it hurts and it breaks down your self esteem. Don't have advice just know you're not alone..


Any kind of feeling unwanted hurts. It helps not to have all your self-esteem tied up in sexual validation though. Be sure all aspects of your life are balanced. You can control a lot of that. And then change your situation if you need to if there just isn't anything good left.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A man who dictates what their woman wears is the controlling one of the two and way out of his lane.


Are you intentionally missing the point, or honestly don't understand? 

Perhaps a switch in perspective: A woman likes flowers. Man doesn't like buying them, thinks they're a waste of money as they just get thrown out in a few days. If she strongly likes the flowers, and despite his misgivings he buys them anyway, is she not "dictating" the flower purchase, and controlling for doing so? Obviously the answer is no, it's doing something the other likes despite your own feelings about the issue, because it's important or brings pleasure to the other one. Insert topic of your choice: BJs, diamond rings, sports car, sprawling suburban house with the "just right" picket fence. Leaning into the desires of your partner despite them not being shared ones is ok, and it's not "being controlled". 

Demanding it happen, or else, at all times, locations, and specifications - yes, that's controlling, and NOT what's being suggested here in the slightest.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ET1SSJonota said:


> Are you intentionally missing the point, or honestly don't understand?
> 
> Perhaps a switch in perspective: A woman likes flowers. Man doesn't like buying them, thinks they're a waste of money as they just get thrown out in a few days. If she strongly likes the flowers, and despite his misgivings he buys them anyway, is she not "dictating" the flower purchase, and controlling for doing so? Obviously the answer is no, it's doing something the other likes despite your own feelings about the issue, because it's important or brings pleasure to the other one. Insert topic of your choice: BJs, diamond rings, sports car, sprawling suburban house with the "just right" picket fence. Leaning into the desires of your partner despite them not being shared ones is ok, and it's not "being controlled".
> 
> Demanding it happen, or else, at all times, locations, and specifications - yes, that's controlling, and NOT what's being suggested here in the slightest.


I disagree.


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I disagree.


Basis? Hopefully besides "it's a man that wants it"?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

ET1SSJonota said:


> Basis? Hopefully besides "it's a man that wants it"?


What are you implying?


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## ET1SSJonota (Dec 25, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> What are you implying?


Not implying anything, as you haven't given much to base anything on. Inviting an explanation, as I don't understand why you insist it's controlling to suggest a partner might wear something the other partner would like to see on them. I certainly don't feel it controlling when my wife gives me that certain look and asks, "is that what you're wearing to X?" and suggests a better shirt.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

GoodDad5 said:


> I can relate for the most part. Married to my wife for 20 years and sex doesn't even cross her mind, and honestly hasn't since our wedding. She sure was up for it though while we dated, including performing oral to me. That hasn't happened since our wedding night either and she tells me oral absolutely disgusts her and she says that it's a porn thing and I should not ask her to do it. Oral on her only happens when I ask to do it but only after she has showered and afterwards I have to wash my face and use mouthwash if I want to kiss her. She rarely if ever initiates and I am tired of being rejected. I honestly think my wife is asexual because she has said before that if she never had sex again it wouldn't bother her, but she does it for me because she loves me, not because she desires it.
> 
> I'm hoping your situation will turn around. Sucks that the only time your wife is into it is when she's high.


Good Lord, we're married to the same woman. Also agree with your last comment - here's hoping the OP's situation does a 180.

Here's an example of my wife's attitude about sex - around five years ago, close friends of ours who lived in our neighborhood moved to the husband's hometown due to a job change. They had one kid in college, one who was starting college, and two in middle school at that time. My wife's comments to the wife of that couple is that her husband should reward her with a year off from sex - pretty telling when my wife feels that not having sex for a year is a reward.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Good Lord, we're married to the same woman. Also agree with your last comment - here's hoping the OP's situation does a 180.
> 
> Here's an example of my wife's attitude about sex - around five years ago, close friends of ours who lived in our neighborhood moved to the husband's hometown due to a job change. They had one kid in college, one who was starting college, and two in middle school at that time. My wife's comments to the wife of that couple is that her husband should reward her with a year off from sex - pretty telling when my wife feels that not having sex for a year is a reward.


Wow, what a confidence booster knowing a year of no sexual intimacy with you is like hitting the lotto.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> G strings are so gross. No one except the 16 year old looks good in them. And they're gross. They are literally a string that goes up your butt. How sexy. About as sexy as a tampon.


River, bless your heart……
You’re something else.😋


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Good Lord, we're married to the same woman. Also agree with your last comment - here's hoping the OP's situation does a 180.
> 
> Here's an example of my wife's attitude about sex - around five years ago, close friends of ours who lived in our neighborhood moved to the husband's hometown due to a job change. They had one kid in college, one who was starting college, and two in middle school at that time. My wife's comments to the wife of that couple is that her husband should reward her with a year off from sex - pretty telling when my wife feels that not having sex for a year is a reward.


And yet you’re still wifing her up…. Damn dude. These women need the boot. They’re for jerks. Let them torture the jerks in the world. I do hate to read this.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> And yet you’re still wifing her up…. Damn dude. These women need the boot. They’re for jerks. Let them torture the jerks in the world. I do hate to read this.


The irony is it is the “Nice Guys” that get stuck with that kind of woman. 

The “jerks” don’t tolerate it and are gone in the blink of an eye.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

The focus seems to be on mismatch levels of excitement and what he wants/she wants. My advise is don’t accept a double standard. You’re allowed to not be enthusiastic about stuff she’s excited about. We’re conditioned such that one partner says no and you can’t.

My wife will complain and keep bringing up a new house. It’s unfair to be disappointed in what your spouse provides you but what the other spouse provides is off limits from criticism or improvement. Any talk about our sex life that is a potential criticism is off-limits. Doesn’t apply to what she wants.

The “Nice Guy” in me wants to rush out and get it for her but nothing would change our dynamic. In fact they would be codependent. It would only be a matter of time before the new house isn’t good enough. The new me is 1) not a genie 2) happy with what we have 3) turned off by entitlement. To me a new house just isn’t on my radar and I don’t think about. And I don’t feel guilty about it.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Wow, what a confidence booster knowing a year of no sexual intimacy with you is like hitting the lotto.


Yep, that's how she thinks, which is why we haven't had sex in around 18 months, and before that it was around 18 months. Our kids (adopted) are ten now, and we've had sex six times since we got them as newborns. Based on anecdotal comments from a couple of friends, I'm not the only one.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, that's how she thinks, which is why we haven't had sex in around 18 months, and before that it was around 18 months. Our kids (adopted) are ten now, and we've had sex six times since we got them as newborns. Based on anecdotal comments from a couple of friends, I'm not the only one.


You know that only happens because you allow it, same for your friends. To me that isn't marriage, not without the romantic relationship aspect. You just have a business arrangement.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


I might have said, "I guess I married the wrong sister" or "at least 2 out of 3 aint bad".


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, that's how she thinks, which is why we haven't had sex in around 18 months, and before that it was around 18 months. Our kids (adopted) are ten now, and we've had sex six times since we got them as newborns. Based on anecdotal comments from a couple of friends, I'm not the only one.


That’s ****ing pathetic dude. Clearly your wife doesn’t respect you at all, she’s not attracted to you, isn’t in love with you and won’t be sexually intimate with you.

So why do continue to tolerate this situation? It’s not typical or normal and it’s not acceptable in a marriage. And just because you have a couple of weak, passive sexless friends in similar situations doesn’t make it any less pathetic. 

It’s almost sounds like you take some perverse pleasure in being passive, powerless and sexless in your marriage.
Choosing to allow yourself to be an involuntary celibate in your marriage, a powerless, passive victim, is not attractive or respectable.dude.

You really want to live the rest of your life this way? It’s a choice, and you can choose differently.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


This sounds like she is taunting you, telling about her sisters' intimate and 'private' activity. (I wonder what your BILs would think of their wife sharing their bedroom antics with you.) Like your wife is flaunting "their husbands are getting plenty but you ain't getting anything!" 

We get more of what we tolerate from other people. You really only have yourself to blame. Among the posters on here there are some examples of men who fixed this problem for themselves. @ccpowerslave decided he wasn't going to live without intimacy, voila he doesn't. @ConanHub same same.

BTW, your friends' situations is really irrelevant. Maybe you need to find some friends who ARE regularly and normally having intimacy with their wives and discuss your situation with them. I bet they will tell you more of what you are reading from posters here.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BTW 18 months is ridiculous.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Whoever is on the bottom is who gets the glare.


That is why there is lamps on the night stand.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


Now this is different. How much does she do this?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

firstnamelastnamehotdog22 said:


> She actually said she thinks about it every day, but for some reason she doesn't act on it. I have to hold my tongue when she mentions her sister dressing up for her husband, or her other sister giving her husband blowjobs without asking. She knows, but apparently doesn't care.


This comment for me leans toward I'm wondering if this thread is suspect.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

ccpowerslave said:


> BTW 18 months is ridiculous.


Yes, exactly and I just don't get it...how can anyone tolerate that??


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, exactly and I just don't get it...how can anyone tolerate that??


Now that I have a decent baseline equilibrium established again sometimes I get antsy after 18 hours. 18 months?!?!!!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

LisaDiane said:


> Yes, exactly and I just don't get it...how can anyone tolerate that??


My guess is no spine and lots of porn.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> This sounds like she is taunting you, telling about her sisters' intimate and 'private' activity. (I wonder what your BILs would think of their wife sharing their bedroom antics with you.) Like your wife is flaunting "their husbands are getting plenty but you ain't getting anything!"
> 
> We get more of what we tolerate from other people. You really only have yourself to blame. Among the posters on here there are some examples of men who fixed this problem for themselves. @ccpowerslave decided he wasn't going to live without intimacy, voila he doesn't. @ConanHub same same.
> 
> BTW, your friends' situations is really irrelevant. Maybe you need to find some friends who ARE regularly and normally having intimacy with their wives and discuss your situation with them. I bet they will tell you more of what you are reading from posters here.


The only time we're not having sex is when we aren't in the same proximity.😉


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