# Opinions On Finding Other Resources Than Partner For Information About Affair



## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

My wedding anniversary (13 yrs) is coming up in a few days. In January it will be a year since D Day of her affair with someone at work. We did a little work on reconciling but I was having to initiate that and finally told her that it would be up to her to initiate and that I would be ready when/if she did. Since then work on 'us' has stopped where it was at but I have continued working on me. Part of me doesn't care who it was or really about the details but part of me does want to know some of it. I know that I do want to know who it was with mainly because she has refused to tell me. That speaks of a disrespect as deep as the affair to me. At the same time we have kids, we are not at war...basically just roommates as we have been for years so the kids aren't traumatized by arguments or anger.

After discovering the affair she made the comment that it wasn't about me, as in she didn't have the affair to 'get at' me. Certainly on the surface I accept that, though deep underneath given that we were married it is also certainly about me. But, for my purposes now accept that it was not about me...it was something _she_ 'needed'.
So now, a _part_ of me 'needs' to know who the affair was with. In my mind I am sometimes telling myself that my finding this out is 'not about her'. My previous career involved analysis/investigation so I know there are ways to find out. They would not be low profile ways and given that she carried on an affair at work my finding out would possibly impact her career.
I know coworkers of hers and could go that route blatantly. From my standpoint I don't have any reason to hide the affair given she has made no moves toward reconciliation or toward leaving. The other route is to contact her company's Ethics Line. An affair with a co-worker of equal level would be against the company ethics standards. An affair with a contractor where she has say in which contractor they use would be a bigger deal. My suspicion is it was with a contractor because since the supposed start of the affair she has regularly brought home all sorts of minor things like shirts, hats, etc., from a single contractor and has gone to dinner with that contractor's project manager and with no others.

I go back and forth between
A) it doesn't matter as far as ever knowing (mainly I do feel it's mostly a petty need to feel like I at least got that from her) and;
B) I want to know just because I think I can find out despite her not being forthcoming.
She had a work affair partly because she put work ahead of family. She likes to go on about how unfair work is for her as a woman, yet she pursued an affair just as she would characterize a privileged man doing. I know that part of me would like to simply shrug my shoulders after an investigation resulting in some kind of disciplinary action by her work and say that it wasn't about her so she should just get over it. And if you are going to warn me about her losing her job and the economics of it, I assure you I can withstand the economic hardship better than her and frankly a little period of hard times would likely be the best thing for our kids in the long run (they are nice kids but incredibly spoiled from my perspective of growing up with Depression Era parents). Aside from that does it seem like the right thing, or even only justifiable. This isn't a constant thought but it does come up in my mind if I dwell on things...given the wedding anniversary and the fact that she supposedly started the affair around Thanksgiving last year I am doing more dwelling than I did across the summer.

Thoughts?


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Go to her co-workers and if that doesn't work got to the ethics board. The answers you need and consequences for not coming clean with you.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

I would need to know. You must decide soon, the longer you wait, the more difficult the investigation will be.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn (Feb 21, 2013)

hptessla said:


> My wedding anniversary (13 yrs) is coming up in a few days. In January it will be a year since D Day of her affair with someone at work. We did a little work on reconciling but I was having to initiate that and finally told her that it would be up to her to initiate and that I would be ready when/if she did. Since then work on 'us' has stopped where it was at but I have continued working on me. Part of me doesn't care who it was or really about the details but part of me does want to know some of it. I know that I do want to know who it was with mainly because she has refused to tell me. That speaks of a disrespect as deep as the affair to me. At the same time we have kids, we are not at war...basically just roommates as we have been for years so the kids aren't traumatized by arguments or anger.
> 
> After discovering the affair she made the comment that it wasn't about me, as in she didn't have the affair to 'get at' me. Certainly on the surface I accept that, though deep underneath given that we were married it is also certainly about me. But, for my purposes now accept that it was not about me...it was something _she_ 'needed'.
> So now, a _part_ of me 'needs' to know who the affair was with. In my mind I am sometimes telling myself that my finding this out is 'not about her'. My previous career involved analysis/investigation so I know there are ways to find out. They would not be low profile ways and given that she carried on an affair at work my finding out would possibly impact her career.
> ...


Cheaters lie and minimize. Always. 

Many on this board will tell you finding out who the affair partner is helps to find out of the affair is still going on. Especially if the affair partner has a significant other. If there exists a significant other they (the SO) should know who they are involved with. Helps to have a second pair of eyes watching them. 

Sounds like your wife just wants to rug sweep the whole thing. What exactly have been the repercussions of her having the affair?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

She doesn't sound remorseful, and she has basically has drawn a line in the sand at your feet and left it too you to make that decision.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your wife treats you like ****. End of post.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

HP, the chick has no romantic interest nor any respect for you. Of course you already know that. Whatja hanging around an pissing away your life for when her newer and lower maintenance replacement is right around the corner? Sides that, your future ex wife sounds like the kind of woman who would willingly bang a guy and file a sexual harassment claim if/when the affair went south. If she gets her azz in a crack at work over this, I'd hate to be that SOB.


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## niceguy47460 (Dec 23, 2018)

Dude blow it up at her work . She will be really sorry then . You need to take a stand and stop being a doormate. Contact her work and blow this whole thing up . Just because you found out doesn't mean the affair has stopped. Find out everything .


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

Your seeming indifference to her affair vexes me. Why do you care who it was? She is, after all, just a roommate. Is she even worthy of your contempt?


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

I have a hard time believing this, hptessla! You are a cuckold! She actually brings home trophies from her dalliances, and you go on and on, blah, blah ,blah. You are going to trigger a lot of BSs with you unmasculine meanderings. Man up for a change!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Did you review your phone bills?

If they communicated using her cell his number will be in there.

If it's a coworker there is a good chance the affair continues. Work place affairs are the hardest to detect monitor.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

I don't understand how not disclosing is even an option. I don't think your wife should have a choice in the matter. She discloses, or it's over. When the affair happened through work, and she still works there, how can it be any other way? How can you know there's no further contact? How can you trust that the reason she won't divulge is so she can easily reconnect with the guy?

I'd have to know regardless of circumstances. We could be moving to an island with only the two of us, and if she truly desired to reconcile, I would have to know. That's just me. For a workplace affair, I think just about any victim of an affair would require disclosure.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For me it would be one of the set criteria for the marriage to have carried on. I would not still be waiting a year later. 
I would suggest that you tell her that if she doesn't tell you who it is now, you will use other means to find out and the results wont be pretty. At the very least his wife needs to know if he is married. At the very least she should have left that job and looked for another.

It seems that you have not set her any conditions for the marriage to continue and she isn't making any effort to show her repentance. Sorry but she is playing you for a fool.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

You need to start moving toward the end goal of indifference. By investigating, getting friends involved, contacting employers, etc... you're showing that she still has a firm grasp on your emotion and wellbeing. Totally understandable, but you will eventually come to realize that all of this time and effort is fruitless and setting yourself up for even more heartache.You may very well just be kicking a hornets nest. Getting her friends involved? Don't be surprised if the cops show up at your house to escort you out because you are "a threat to her and the children". Keep it all business and professional. Lawyers. Walk away.

MODERATOR NOTE:- The URL was removed because it breached the TAM Word Filter.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

hptessla said:


> My wedding anniversary (13 yrs) is coming up in a few days. In January it will be a year since D Day of her affair with someone at work. We did a little work on reconciling but I was having to initiate that and finally told her that it would be up to her to initiate and that I would be ready when/if she did. Since then work on 'us' has stopped where it was at but I have continued working on me. Part of me doesn't care who it was or really about the details but part of me does want to know some of it. I know that I do want to know who it was with mainly because she has refused to tell me. That speaks of a disrespect as deep as the affair to me. At the same time we have kids, we are not at war...basically just roommates as we have been for years so the kids aren't traumatized by arguments or anger.
> 
> After discovering the affair she made the comment that it wasn't about me, as in she didn't have the affair to 'get at' me. Certainly on the surface I accept that, though deep underneath given that we were married it is also certainly about me. But, for my purposes now accept that it was not about me...it was something _she_ 'needed'.
> So now, a _part_ of me 'needs' to know who the affair was with. In my mind I am sometimes telling myself that my finding this out is 'not about her'. My previous career involved analysis/investigation so I know there are ways to find out. They would not be low profile ways and given that she carried on an affair at work my finding out would possibly impact her career.
> ...


*If her AP(affair partner) is still employed at the company, then I'd recommend action. That being the case, they still may be clandestinely involved!

In any event, their behavior needs company and possibly legal intervention! If you do choose to pursue either action, please consult with a trusted, knowledgeable attorney!
*


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

Failure for her to disclose who the AP was is just plain disrespectful. She doesn't respect you, and if the 'ho-hum' attitude detected in your post is the attitude you've taken with her, then you are enabling her to continue with the disrespect. 

Man up and make demands with real consequences! If they are still working together, blow this thing up. If they indeed are working together, then this A likely is still going on in some capacity, or at the very least it's highly likely it will start up again.

Friend- decide if she and your marriage are worth it, and if you say 'yes', you must make do an about face and work to turn the tables. If you choose to R with this woman the way things are now, she's never going to respect you, and it's an even money chance that this sort of thing will happen again- or continue.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Did she stop the affair or just get better at hiding it?

If it was a coworker and she will not say who.....the affair is likely still on.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

She owns you in a way that infuriating, not just to you but to others who have walked in your same path , but their are those who do face the reality of their once sacred vows. She is the handler and you are the dog, no remorse, no morals, no values, no regret, no love, no honor. She not just a rugsweeper, but a cake eater. When she told you it wasn't about you, believe her she is selfish, and self-indulgent.

She puts her lover first that is why she still protects him. And guess what she loves that!! about herself. It's no wonder why this is bothering you so. Time has come for the derailment to take place. You have no future and don't play the kid card, it never works. You can not love enough for two.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

When you lie in bed at night, how do you feel about yourself in this situation?

Not your wife...who has zero respect for you.

Not her AP...whom you still are in the dark about.

Not your kids...who are seeing a very lousy marital dynamic as normal, and will likely see that as a "healthy" model.

How do you feel about YOU?

Because frankly, I would hate myself for allowing this bull**** to continue. 

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

Here's what I don't understand. If the marriage is a done as HP claims, on both her end and his, why keep wrestling with "full disclosure", "exposure", "forced stopping the affair", et cetera. If he gets all this done, what the hell has he or her got to look forward to. (Hint, it ain't going to be happy marriage with a decent amount of warmth, intimacy and sex) By his own admission, all him and his old lady have long term volunteered for are nannies and caretakers for the kids. I don't know if the kids are spoiled as he claims or are just reacting to the wonderful and warm family life that surrounds them. 
My advice to either of them is to take any transportation they can find off that ice burg. If they don't do it for themselves, do it for the kids before they are screwed up royally. My sixth sense tells me his soon to be ex wife is hoping he'll ride off into the sunset. That taste of forbidden fruit has likely waken her awareness of what she's been missing and she ain't going to turn it loose to return to her "room mate" status. If this one gets derailed, there's another within reach.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

You need to file for divorce and investigate effective co-parenting strategies. There is no compelling reason to stay with an unremorseful cheater. 

Maybe the filing will wake her up and she'll look to reconcile. If this happens, then you'll lay down some very tough conditions, the first of which will be to reveal her lover's identity. 

Your only other option is to stay in this sham of a marriage that she unilaterally decided to open to 3rd parties. You should consider yourself free to date other women while living with your "wife", though you will find that quality women will not like the arrangement.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

[email protected] said:


> I have a hard time believing this, hptessla! You are a cuckold! She actually brings home trophies from her dalliances, and you go on and on, blah, blah ,blah. You are going to trigger a lot of BSs with you unmasculine meanderings. Man up for a change!


Thanks for the advice.
Do you have kids? What exactly is does 'man up' mean when you have kids? Is that where you throw them under the bus because you need to get your **** wet once in a while? Seen enough results of adults who can't handle their own business and cut and run because they 'deserve' something more. Sorry. When I check out I don't want that on my bill. This isn't their mess to clean up. We're not at war, no arguments not much of anything so it's not ideal for the kids but in my judgement as one of their parents it's better than switching houses every week(end) and witnessing a regular parade of 'uncles' or 'friends' spending the night.

Is 'manning up' in any way associated with honoring a commitment? Because my wedding vow was not bilateral or conditional except to stay regardless of circumstance. I know that a lot of people get a rush from having stuff and accomplishing this or that at work and I like all that well enough but at my core there are only a couple of things that matter. Manning up to appear to be strong or in control isn't one of them.

...but thanks all the same for your insight...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Is the affair really over?

Reporting her to HR is important because if she was having an affair with a contractor she could be open to blackmail, etc.

Also this might not be her first performance at the infidelity rodeo.

Have her take a polygraph. And have the children's DNA tested. Not necessarily because you think you are not the father, but to show your wife that she has utterly destroyed your trust in her and has totally ruined your marriage and killed your faith in her.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You are correct it is up to you how you want to proceed. Unfortunately no one is going to help you in this. Your wayward wife may have put you where you're at but you are the only one that can get yourself out. 

If you wife won't divulge who her other man is then at this time your marriage is just a pice of paper. Not worth much.

It's all one sided. If you dig deep enough you'll find your answer but what would you do if you get it?

I suspect you're due for a repeat of what you've already gotten.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Marc878 said:


> You are correct it is up to you how you want to proceed. Unfortunately no one is going to help you in this. Your wayward wife may have put you where you're at but you are the only one that can get yourself out.
> 
> If you wife won't divulge who her other man is then at this time your marriage is just a pice of paper. Not worth much.
> 
> ...





> Because my wedding vow was not bilateral or conditional except to stay regardless of circumstance.


 I think that states pretty clearly what he'll do. Stay with her no matter what. I expect the repeat will then turn into status quo. It's his decision and his life. If he can endure that, more power to him.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

hptessla said:


> Is 'manning up' in any way associated with honoring a commitment? *Because my wedding vow was not bilateral or conditional except to stay regardless of circumstance.* I know that a lot of people get a rush from having stuff and accomplishing this or that at work and I like all that well enough but at my core there are only a couple of things that matter. Manning up to appear to be strong or in control isn't one of them.
> .


Does this mean she has an open marriage on her end? Strange vows.

Sorry but I've seen this before. Conflict avoidance excuse to do nothing.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

hptessla said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> Do you have kids? What exactly is does 'man up' mean when you have kids? Is that where you throw them under the bus because you need to get your **** wet once in a while? Seen enough results of adults who can't handle their own business and cut and run because they 'deserve' something more. Sorry. When I check out I don't want that on my bill. This isn't their mess to clean up. We're not at war, no arguments not much of anything so it's not ideal for the kids but in my judgement as one of their parents it's better than switching houses every week(end) and witnessing a regular parade of 'uncles' or 'friends' spending the night.
> 
> Is 'manning up' in any way associated with honoring a commitment? Because my wedding vow was not bilateral or conditional except to stay regardless of circumstance. I know that a lot of people get a rush from having stuff and accomplishing this or that at work and I like all that well enough but at my core there are only a couple of things that matter. Manning up to appear to be strong or in control isn't one of them.
> ...


You n the ten years or so I have been here or so I have been here, yours is the weakest response I have ever seen to being cheated on. Can you explain this?

You wedding vows have meant nothing since the second she banged her boyfriend. The vows are broken, the marriage counseling s over. Only the mess needs cleaned up now. It might be posdible to build a new marriage but you are on the wrong path for that. 

What she sees is a weak man, and I hope you can take this kindly, that has confirmed her decision to look for a stronger mate. 

No woman wants a weak man unless that’s all they can get. You should be talking to her HR and a divorce attorney. Adultery may have consequences in your state. File, you can always stop it.

If you had been here longer, you would know the children of cheaters fair very badly when the cheating is swept under the rug . You two are obviously not being loving parents doting on each other and being an example of a happy family.

Besides investigating, find a counselor for yourself. 

We are here to help but you are not doing anything to get out of infidelity. One of the few Iron clad rules to save the family is the WAYWARD SPOUSE CAN NOT CONTINUE TO WORK WITH HER AFFAIR PARTNER. NO CONTACT IS ALLOWED AT ALL.

You must regain you wife’s respect or live in misery.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Btw, your wife has proven your wedding vows were bilateral and mean nothing to her. 

Do not try to raise kids in a loveless marriage. And tell her this, she cheated on her kids more than she cheated on you.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

hptessla said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> Do you have kids? What exactly is does 'man up' mean when you have kids? Is that where you throw them under the bus because you need to get your **** wet once in a while? Seen enough results of adults who can't handle their own business and cut and run because they 'deserve' something more. Sorry. When I check out I don't want that on my bill. This isn't their mess to clean up. We're not at war, no arguments not much of anything so it's not ideal for the kids but in my judgement as one of their parents it's better than switching houses every week(end) and witnessing a regular parade of 'uncles' or 'friends' spending the night.
> 
> ...


 @hptessla, the logical question is where do you draw the line in your commitment to her? 

Would you set yourself on fire to keep her warm?

You are asking people to advise you on how to deal with someone who is actively abusing you without considering actually removing yourself from the abuse.

What if you replace the saying 'man up" with "remove yourself from the abuse"? Does it then have a 'better' feel to it?

That you would pick apart how they encourage you to stop allowing yourself to be abused is telling.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Clearly based on your answer that you will accept anything she throws at you so you can stay in this marriage....and just to be clear your vows is one sided.


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## Rick Blaine (Mar 27, 2017)

Vow are important, but so is mutual accountability. Your wife broke her vows and you have done nothing to hold her accountable. If you won't set and enforce boundaries you are just punishing yourself. If you are really interested in saving your marriage--and not just avoiding conflict--you will hold her accountable. Doing so won't make you a bad parent. Your children will respect you and flourish because you are a strong father.


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## scaredlion (Mar 4, 2017)

Let's see if I have this right. Your wife cheated, you live as roommates (which I gather means no sex), there is no reconciliation happening, and you don't want to separate or divorce because of the children and breaking up the family. Other than just finding out who the AP was, what is it you want? I don't know of any normal married man, or woman, who wants to go through a sexless married life. (Notice I said NORMAL, because a sexless marriage is not normal) Just tell her you want an open marriage. You already have a one sided open marriage that you were unaware of. I have heard from others that just because she broke her vows doesn't mean you have to break yours. It doesn't matter if she broke the vows, once vows are broken they are broken for both of you. Vows are like an egg. You ever try to break half an egg? Can't be done. Once broken, they are no longer binding until both spouses agree to make new vows to each other. Just tell her she can take Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to see whoever and do whatever she wants and you get Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday to do the same. Sunday, you both do something with the children. Next week you swap days. If she goes for that then you know for sure where her head is. If she says no then you may have a chance to save something. It appears you are living a boring and self deprecating life. Time is a very precious thing. It's something you can never get back. You are spending your time marching in one place (called "marking time" in the military). I do wish you well.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

hptessla said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> Do you have kids? What exactly is does 'man up' mean when you have kids? Is that where you throw them under the bus because you need to get your **** wet once in a while? Seen enough results of adults who can't handle their own business and cut and run because they 'deserve' something more. Sorry. When I check out I don't want that on my bill. This isn't their mess to clean up. We're not at war, no arguments not much of anything so it's not ideal for the kids but in my judgement as one of their parents it's better than switching houses every week(end) and witnessing a regular parade of 'uncles' or 'friends' spending the night.
> 
> Is 'manning up' in any way associated with honoring a commitment? Because my wedding vow was not bilateral or conditional except to stay regardless of circumstance. I know that a lot of people get a rush from having stuff and accomplishing this or that at work and I like all that well enough but at my core there are only a couple of things that matter. Manning up to appear to be strong or in control isn't one of them.
> ...


Dude, you're showing classic "deflection" tendencies to rationalize living in a generally intolerable circumstance. 

It's hard to objectively accept unpleasant realities in one's life, that's only harmful to one's long term situation and indeed one's future self circumstances. 

The hammer is being pulled back, you would be best served by moving out of the way because she will drop it at a time of her choosing and the end result will be the same. 

You'll be forced out anyway, but in waaayy less favorable conditions than if you handled this a bit differently. 

The situation isn't your fault. But it is very real. Her mot volunteering the name is a huge red flag she's just skating because you let her.

Kids are better served with two parents apart, not remaining together in a constant battle kids will watch. They know what's happening, or will.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Chaparral said:


> You must regain you wife’s respect or live in misery.


Actually, the OP needs to gain some sorely needed *SELF* respect. 

All he *does* is continue to make excuses for accepting the unacceptable.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I understand your points about having children and the meaning of vows.

However:

If you want to reconcile or even live amicably as roommates you need to start doing some things differently. Setting the goal as separation or divorce is not the only reason for drawing some hard lines in the sand. If you want a better marriage, and one that is reconciled, you need to draw some lines in the sand as well.

You have to stand up for yourself, even if you want to keep your family together.

She has to tell you who she has been having an A with. (It is very possibly still going on.)

She has to read 'Not Just Friends' and 'How to Help your Spouse Heal from your Affair.'

She has to go to IC to learn how to be a safer partner.

She has to be honest and transparent.

You need to insist on these things not because you want a D, but because you want a marriage and family where the children feel emotionally safe.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

IMHO, the first step is deciding what you need to know and *why*. If you cannot forgive what you already know, then there is not point learning more. If you can forgive any action, then there is no point in learning more. I think the only value in learning is if it might change your actions.


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## DoesItGetBetter? (Aug 16, 2019)

Hello, hptessla – 

I am very sorry to hear of your circumstances. Your wife has abused you by choosing to have an affair with another person. You do not know if she has had more than one affair or if the one affair is still ongoing. Given her refusal to tell you his name and the current “roommate” situation, she has no intention of repenting and reconciling with you. As such, I would sit her down and demand that she reveal everything to you, or you will report her to Ethics. Their investigation will likely bring new insights to you or a least punish her for her terrible behavior. Please test yourself for STDs and DNA the kids. If the affair partner is married, you owe it to her to inform her of her wayward husband. You will likely need to divorce her soon, as she broke the marriage covenant and has not even tried to reconcile. Do the 180 and have her served to try to wake her up. You deserve better. You can still have a happy life, and your kids will survive this, maybe even thrive since mommy and daddy are no longer filled with hatred for each other living under the same roof. 

I wish you well.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

I'm sorry you've had to live with infidelity for so long. You're 50% responsible for marriage issues but she's 100% responsible for her decision to cheat.

I'm sorry if you already mentioned this but how did you find out about the affair?

Do not warn your wife about exposing the affair to HR.

First talk to your attorney about how divorce will impact you. Some states impute a salary to the spouse so her getting fired may not matter to you.

Get concrete evidence before exposing/reporting the affair. HR will not do an investigation without evidence.

Does she text a lot? Is she possessive of her phone? Does she take it into the bathroom when showering?
If you can take possession of her phone, there is software available for recovering deleted texts.

Is the affair still going on? 
Check your phone bill for numbers she calls.
Check up on her some time when she's goes out after work with coworkers.
When there's an opportunity for them to be together (a special company event or you leave town), hire a PI.
Put a VAR in her car (for planning your next move but not for evidence).

After gathering hard evidence of the affair, consider paying your attorney to accompany you and speak for you with HR.
Have your attorney make an appointment with HR but don't mention names (so the OM isn't warned and brushes you off as an abusive controlling jealous husband). They will take your attorney very serious (afraid of a law suit if the OM is a supervisor and bad publicity). If they want to have their attorney present, that's fine.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Chaparral said:


> You n the ten years or so I have been here or so I have been here, yours is the weakest response I have ever seen to being cheated on. Can you explain this?
> 
> You wedding vows have meant nothing since the second she banged her boyfriend. The vows are broken, the marriage counseling s over. Only the mess needs cleaned up now. It might be posdible to build a new marriage but you are on the wrong path for that.
> 
> ...



How do you regain respect from someone who has demonstrated that they have so little for themselves? Unless infidelity is some sort of badge of honor, why is her respect important at this point? If you are talking about turning a marriage into a power play the type of 'respect' you're talking about would be worth pursuing, albeit the resulting 'marriage' might not be.

She has also clearly demonstrated her preference for a stronger mate, no? I suppose at one time it was me, because I'm attractive in shape and don't play games. That version of strength has apparently passed and she has moved up to the AP...a married man. Gee, maybe I should have an affair myself that way she will see me as 'strong'. OR...the manner of acting out on her side actually betrays a bit about what she feels she really deserves. Could be a pattern, since her father has consistently told me he was glad when she brought me over because the guys she had dated were "losers, and I mean _real_ losers". I've also met several of the ex BFs. I have not met the APs wife. It would be interesting as to whether she finds her husband to be weak or strong, would it match my wife's perception I wonder?

As to my wedding vows they have meant more than something and continue to. Her wedding vows are the ones that are questionable at best...but she is the strong player, correct? In other words, to compete in her game I have to rise to the top through compromise of my own values so that we can be equals; does that sound about right? Da#m! I should have gone with my initial impulse when I found out about the affair, what a weak loser I am I shoulda 180'd her across the face! I could blackmail her with the Ethics Line and get laid for a few months, that would get me some respect.

Look, I get your perspective. It's just not mine.

My brother died of cancer in 2014. He lived a pretty wild life, was an alcoholic, long time GF who he married was on crack and had him arrested among many of their adventures. The only thing I respected about him most of his life was that at least he rode his train all the way down for years and didn't ask for a bail out from mom and dad. Even after he cleaned himself up (because they had a kid) I didn't think much of him.

After they figured out what type cancer he had they told him he had under 25% chance of making it with treatment...BUT...they told him that if he underwent treatment that they would learn a lot because his was a rare cancer and the longer he kept it up the more they would learn. He knew fairly early in that the treatments weren't doing it. He kept going with it though because he did want to help the research. I don't _know_ his motivation, I can guess at it. I do know that he rode that train all the way down too. He couldn't swallow toward the end. He did finally stop the treatments at the end. He could have had a more comfortable though shorter time focusing on himself and cutting out treatment earlier. But he didn't. That's weak, by most people's reasoning, but it's the only way he left this world with more respect and meaning than he would have by not doing it.
There are reasons and meanings beyond ourselves. Sometimes we bury the importance of those until we face our own mortality. I know what's important to me...and in a way it sucks knowing it but that doesn't obscure the knowledge.

I did get an answer to my question after reading the responses and reading into the stuff behind a lot of the responses. So thanks everyone for responding, I've clarified what would make me feel good in the short run.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

hptessla said:


> She has also clearly demonstrated her preference for a stronger mate, no? I suppose at one time it was me, because I'm attractive in shape and don't play games. That version of strength has apparently passed and she has moved up to the AP...a married man. Gee, maybe I should have an affair myself that way she will see me as 'strong'. OR...the manner of acting out on her side actually betrays a bit about what she feels she really deserves. Could be a pattern, since her father has consistently told me he was glad when she brought me over because the guys she had dated were "losers, and I mean _real_ losers". I've also met several of the ex BFs.


Dawg, if you what go along with this she-buzzard defining you, that's on you. It sure as hell wouldn't happen to me. A high maintenance broad like her is too easy to replace. Just ditch her azz and stop this, "let's see who can stare to other down" contest. She didn't grind pubic bones with this cat because he's a stronger male. She did it because her romantic interest in you as well as her respect for you is in the toilet. If a married woman laid down every man because she perceived him as a "stronger male", all our azzez would be in trouble. There a plenty of men who can labor all day, stay up all night, and still make two of you or me, or anybody else. Your problem ain't being a weaker male. Your problem is being yoked to a woman that wants to use her ***** as a symbol of independence and to control other guys. There are chicks like that anywhere you go. You were just unlucky enough to marry one. Lawyer up, get in the drivers seat, and get yourself out of the hell.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

hptessla you're a bit of a smartass. That's good. I like that about you. 

But if you are going to be defensive towards every piece of advise given to you here, then we can't really help you. You may want to mosey over to Surviving Infidelity where they are more prone to letting you vent on them unconditionally, while they butter your ass with niceties.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You are misinterpreting what we are telling you. Many do, even most do. Briefly, most betrayed spouses do the pick me dance and live on hopium.

The fact is and this is virtually 100%, the pick me dance never works. It seems counter productive but going shock and awe, exposing an on going affair to the workplace, and families is the only thing that can stop a wandering spouse. 

Of course this could be an exit affair. Nothing may help. After a wife has an affair there is only a twenty percent chance the marriage will survive. Of course most affairs end in immediate divorce.

Make no mistake, regardless of your personal philosophy of marriage, your relationship with your wife is toast. You may linger or take action but this marriage is done. Being angry with us just says you are not accepting the writing on the wall.

How was your marriage and sex life before the affair? How long was the affair? How did you find out about it? Why do you think it’s over?

You need to understand there is an unofficial script all cheaters go by. It’s amazing but true. That’s why folks here think there is a really good chance the affair is ongoing. Betrayed spouses generally follow one of two scripts. They do the pick me dance, trying to be everything they think their wife wants them to be and fix themselves, they go shock and awe demand divorce, tell the other betrayed spouse etc, and kill the affair by shedding light on it and watch the cockroaches run. Some waffle between the two positions. 

Even the effects on the children are predictable. We have members here that struggle with the affairs their parents had ages ago. We have members here that struggle with affairs that are decades in the past. 

We know what we are talking about. You are standing in the middle of the railroad tracks. We are trying to pull you out of the path of a speeding freight car train. You will notice some are impatient for you to follow advice. They are simply trying to save you and your family. 

Read as much as you can here. The answers are on these pages and it is obvious what works and what doesn’t.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

OP wants to be a martyr. We all know that will get him more of what he's already gotten.

I've seen this before. Every one is a jaded ******* so he can direct his anger/frustration elsewhere. Perhaps so he can somehow fortify his inability to make a decision?

Whatever the case why even bother coming here? Do you even have a purpose? End game?

Or are you just wanting to vent somewhere ?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

HPTessla, one thing to consider -- your children see you and your wife as roomates. What do you think that gives THEM as a role model for their future relationships? Also, if you think THEY don't notice what is going on, your are dead wrong. I bet they are a lot more perceptive than you think.
When you found out and had arguments with your wife about the affair, are you 100% SURE they were asleep? Couldn't hear you? Did hear the arguing and snuck out of their bed to listen?

You have given her NO repercussions for the affair. You have accepted that she protects her AP more than she cares about you and your marriage. You made vows but the vows were with You, HER, and God (if you believe in..). SHE broke the vows -- there is no contract anymore. You caring, and keeping your vows is EMPTY -- she broke them and doesn't care. Are you willing to handcuff yourself and live a miserable life due to that? If so, then why do you care who it is?

As for your question, I say go for it -- talk with her coworkers that you think may know, but WILL they give her up or protect her? Do you know someone specifically that you think would know and would tell you?

Also, if you find out that the AP is that contractor, why don't you take all those little trinkets she got and burn them in the yard. Have you been checked for STDs and let her know? Have you had your children DNA tested?
WHAT exactly have you done that caused any repercussions on her?

I am VERY sorry that this happened to you -- it sucks. You really need to protect yourself and your kids, and giving up YOUR entire life isn't protecting them at all.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

It would be useful to know how you found out exactly in the first place. You have never said in previous posts.

Also you may think that you are doing the right thing by your kids by staying - you are not. They are being given the wrong idea of what a marriage is, what self-worth is and what they should do if cheated on. They would be better off with happily divorced parents.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

OP, you ask for thoughts and then get snarky and lash out. Good strategy, aimed at the right people, it will solve your problems. 

Your wife on the other hand, refuses to tell you who the AP is. Could still be ongoing. She has shown no remorse at all. First time she was caught?

And you're accepting of all this behaviour of hers because of your vows. Unconditionally loving someone is foolish. One of my conditions is that my wife doesn't bang other dudes. It's one of the little rules I have.

If you DNA the kids and find out one or more are not yours, would that change anything?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If I got some of the responses I’ve seen here, I would find another forum. 

One size does not fit all. Hurting people have to be supported and led. Not brow beaten, called names and ridiculed. 

This site did not used to be anything like this. As a result, no where as many people come here as they used to.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

bandit.45 said:


> hptessla you're a bit of a smartass. That's good. I like that about you.
> 
> But if you are going to be defensive towards every piece of advise given to you here, then we can't really help you. You may want to mosey over to Surviving Infidelity where they are more prone to letting you vent on them unconditionally, while they butter your ass with niceties.


I didn't ask for advice on how to win a power struggle. I can clearly witness the happiness and closure that the '180' type activity results in; not just here but among real world friends and acquaintances. I liked the movie Rambo when it came out and I was young. I'm not young and I have an appreciation for the type of 'doormat' manhood exhibited in Hacksaw Ridge these days. When I total up my credits and debits at the end of my life I don't think that the common definitions of manhood will comfort me much. I am aware that my wife did not keep her vows. Those are vows she made voluntarily, in fact eagerly. We dated 3 years before we were married so I'm pretty sure she had an idea of how I manned up or didn't.

If you're buttering my ass...
1) You're barking up the wrong tree
2) Clearly whoever you're with isn't satisfying you; time to move on per your own advice.


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> @hptessla, the logical question is where do you draw the line in your commitment to her?
> 
> Would you set yourself on fire to keep her warm?
> 
> ...



I have considered removing myself from the situation and it doesn't work for me. I'm not being actively abused. I actually enjoy my life overall. Infidelity is jarring in the immediate sense and disconcerting in the long range but marriage has brought me good things too. It could be better, much better, but leaving the marriage would not put me in a better situation in many ways including living my own values. She's not leaving either, why? I don't know...maybe she enjoys living with me because I'm such a charmer. She could leave any time. There's a cost to anything unhealthy; spiritually, mentally, physically or emotionally. For all the affair seems to have offered her at bottom it's an objectively bad thing and there are reasons behind it. I don't know what those reasons are but I can say that I am not a valid one. She may blame me, I don't know for what because she has never articulated any blame commensurate to having an affair. She cut off sex. I survived w/o an affair, she couldn't. Cutting off sex was her revenge/resentment for something, it backfired on her. If it were just her and I maybe she'd feel particularly good sleeping with someone else.
We have kids, she care about them but her needs jeopardized that relationship. She will go on about 'male privilege', thinks Trump is a pig...and yet...she has become the monster she despises. Does that feel good do you think?
I can drive and drive with vengeance and push her to a place where she becomes incapable of seeing her position in light of her own values. That doesn't seem like a good outcome; you can soak in enough bitterness that you no longer are capable of washing it off. The ideal is change. Not change in a power structure, change in a marriage. Maybe it never comes. I certainly can't force that kind of change. I might be able to make her change on a shallow level...get 'respect' from holding something over her head but that's a lot of work. Anger and revenge are tiring. I have anger when I let myself focus on how I've been wronged and think about the ways I can make her pay. I don't have so much when I look at myself and think of where I want to be as a person. I'm noticing it's a lot less tiring to focus on trying to live my life the way I want to be. If you're a Breaking Bad fan there's a scene where Gus Fring explains to Walter what it means to be a man and he says that a man provides and he does it when he's not appreciated or respected or even loved; he simply bears up and he does it because he's a man. Maybe it's a generational thing?

I would not set myself on fire to keep her warm, nor would I blow out a fire to watch her freeze. If she was freezing and I had the power to build a fire to warm her would I have no obligation to do so? She cheated on me. She also gave me children. I'm not easy with the idea of revenge. It always sounds better than it turns out. By sorting through the advice here it became obvious to me that my main reason to consider finding out who it was, particularly via an Ethics Line call, was revenge. So I do take in the advice here, it's very telling and offers it's own guidance.
My family and her family are grudge holders. It's a terrible way to live, damaging yourself to get back at someone. I've always recognized that but it's tempting sometimes despite knowing...but look around the world, both close in and far away; where is anyone winning by holding a grudge?


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> Is the affair really over?
> 
> Reporting her to HR is important because if she was having an affair with a contractor she could be open to blackmail, etc.
> 
> ...


The DNA test was a thought. It was weird in that as I thought about it I realized that no matter what that test would say they'd be my kids and given that I would never want to treat them different subconsciously by knowing something. It would also kind of feel like I was testing them, not her...if that makes any sense?


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## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

Marc878 said:


> OP wants to be a martyr. We all know that will get him more of what he's already gotten.
> 
> I've seen this before. Every one is a jaded ******* so he can direct his anger/frustration elsewhere. Perhaps so he can somehow fortify his inability to make a decision?
> 
> ...


Everyone's not jaded. But when you see people's responses enough times you can pick out the ones who are. You could add bitter to that too.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

hptessla said:


> I have considered removing myself from the situation and it doesn't work for me. I'm not being actively abused. I actually enjoy my life overall. Infidelity is jarring in the immediate sense and disconcerting in the long range but marriage has brought me good things too. It could be better, much better, but leaving the marriage would not put me in a better situation in many ways including living my own values. She's not leaving either, why? I don't know...maybe she enjoys living with me because I'm such a charmer. She could leave any time. There's a cost to anything unhealthy; spiritually, mentally, physically or emotionally. For all the affair seems to have offered her at bottom it's an objectively bad thing and there are reasons behind it. I don't know what those reasons are but I can say that I am not a valid one. She may blame me, I don't know for what because she has never articulated any blame commensurate to having an affair. She cut off sex. I survived w/o an affair, she couldn't. Cutting off sex was her revenge/resentment for something, it backfired on her. If it were just her and I maybe she'd feel particularly good sleeping with someone else.
> 
> We have kids, she care about them but her needs jeopardized that relationship. She will go on about 'male privilege', thinks Trump is a pig...and yet...she has become the monster she despises. Does that feel good do you think?
> 
> ...


I wish you the best of luck. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

HP,

I don't know how you can get to 3 or 5 or 10 years not knowing who the OM is. There is a long term distrust aspect to this which is hard to overcome and often grows with time.

Time does not heal lies you are aware of


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

An ostrich that buries his head in the sand can get bitten in the ass.

I don't think you at least at this time can deal with reality.

Until you do you'll stay where you are.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

hptessla said:


> I'm not easy with the idea of revenge. It always sounds better than it turns out. By sorting through the advice here it became obvious to me that my main reason to consider finding out who it was, particularly via an Ethics Line call, was revenge. So I do take in the advice here, it's very telling and offers it's own guidance.


Who said anything about revenge? Is that the word that popped into your mind when all we were asking you to do was hold her accountable? 

Accountability. Look it up. Google it. It is a fundamental part of marriage. It is what you are not getting from her.


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## Stormguy2018 (Jul 11, 2018)

hptessla said:


> The other route is to contact her company's Ethics Line. An affair with a co-worker of equal level would be against the company ethics standards. An affair with a contractor where she has say in which contractor they use would be a bigger deal. My suspicion is it was with a contractor because since the supposed start of the affair she has regularly brought home all sorts of minor things like shirts, hats, etc., from a single contractor and has gone to dinner with that contractor's project manager and with no others.
> 
> Thoughts?


This one. She's not remorseful. Blow up her work world. That will make her take what she did seriously.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

She cut off sex. That’s the number one red flag for an affair. You might want to consider that. They cut off sex to be faithful to their new partner.

Finding out who the affair partner keeps you from wondering who it is. You will become suspicious of every male she has contact with. Neighbors, friends, fellow workers etc.

It takes some folks longer to get where they need to be. At this point you both need individual counseling. You also need to stealthily investigate as the affair may have gone underground. This is as common as affairs are.

The DNA tests are much more used to let the wayward wife know that you now have to assume she could have been having other affairs and you now have lost faith in her.

You both need individual Counseling and it’s not even close to the time for marriage counseling. Anything else is sweeping that affair under the rug. This is a sure course to catastrophe.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There are many threads here that resulted in reconciliation. Read and find out what works. Also see what did not.

What you see here is not anger but a bit of impatience. Cheaters all follow the same patterns. Its like they all read the same playbook. Your wife is following it. Betrayed spouses follow their own playbook too. Until they finally get it.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

"When I total up my credits and debits at the end of my life I don't think that the common definitions of manhood will comfort me much"

you may be correct, but I can guarantee you when you're on your deathbed, you will be kicking yourself that you didn't leave that situation a lot sooner. You get one life, live it right. 

speaking of debits and credits, here's two you need to journal ASAP:

debit: freedom
credit: wife


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

1. She cut off sex because she was already in an active affair and did not want to cheat on her affair partner.

No one here is suggesting that you hold a grudge or punish her for revenge.

If you are happy allowing the affair to continue (because it is), then that is your choice.

Good luck.

BTW. If you realize it or not, kids can feel the tension in a home. If old enough, they may have decided what is going on already. Staying in a stress filed marriage is not good for kids.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I am sad to see that you have resigned yourself to this. While I agree with your comments on bitterness and revenge, I think that you have several responsibilities here that you are avoiding.

1. To her work. Please don’t think of this as revenge or bitterness. It is appropriate to report any information that could jeopardize the company from a legal standpoint. As others have suggested, get your facts straight first and go with a lawyer. The company will thank you for saving them from litigation.

2. Yourself. Your sense of self-worth. Please show yourself and your children that you deserve better. They will learn from you. Simply tell them that “mommy has a boyfriend and that’s not allowed in marriage”

3. Your future. As someone who is over 55 let me tell you that some strange things are going to happen to you when you hit 50.

The first one is the WTF have I done with my life phenomenon.
The second one is “more than half my life is over, what do I want going forward?” How can I bring meaning to every day?

All this is dependent on you not getting “that” diagnosis, which is another realistic factor at this point.
Nothing makes sh*t more real than being told “I’m sorry, but it’s cancer”. You have NO NO idea how your reality shifts. 
How the things that mattered just don’t anymore. How every damn moment you draw breath needs meaning.

You are very hurt, i hear it in your posts. You just wish that she hadn’t done this. But she did. And you are losing yourself to the anger, guilt and mistrust.

You deserve more. You deserve better. 

Let her go. Value yourself enough. Don’t settle for status quo.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

TAMAT said:


> HP,
> 
> I don't know how you can get to 3 or 5 or 10 years not knowing who the OM is.


I strongly suspect he'll have the opportunity to find out who the other man is. Reading his post indicates he actually believes he has control of the outcomes of his life with her. He's her base camp and will continue to use him as such until the right guy comes along and she'll ditch him like a used rubber. Hp doesn't have a clue about women and what they do to men they lost interest in and have no respect for. Before she done, HP is going to get one hell of an education. And class has barely started.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

I still don't understand why you are asking our thoughts about your situation. You act like you are Zeus on Olympus looking down at the weak mortals beneath you. 

I get that you want to stay with her for the kids. Okay, that's a very acceptable reason to stay with her.

So just accept that, the disrespect she has shown and continues to show you not withstanding. 

Just understand that most of us mer mortals demand a little more out of life. 

If you are happy in your situation, why ask our thoughts?


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