# A matter of PRiDE



## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

Hello all!
Bisexual 35 year old female married to 35 year old straight male, (7 months pregnant with our 2nd baby.) As it is June, and it’s common in our area to show support to the LGBTQ+ community, I hung a pride flag along with our usual American flag in front of our home. My husband saw on security camera & called literally a minute later saying what kind of flag did you hang, I’m not comfortable with that, etc. I understood but was still hurt by this. He knows who I am, has had the pleasure of experiencing me with other women, yet when it comes to this what is he embarrassed? He is politically conservative. I wish that didn’t have a part in this, but I think it does. Yes he pays the mortgage but we supposedly share this home & I want to be able to be myself. He says I should have consulted him & it shouldn’t be the same size as US flag, like I desiccated it. So, any insight on this?
Was I wrong?
It’s down now, “from the wind.” But he said it really bothered him.  I don’t want to feel ashamed anymore.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You and he need to negotiate. Does he have your permission to hang a conventional marriage flag?

EDITED TO ADD: You put up a *gay *pride flag. My question would have been better asked had I asked if he has your permission to put up a *straight *pride flag?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If he put a Trump sign in your front yard without your input, would you be ok with that?


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

JAHnonymous said:


> Was I wrong?


Well yea, since you’re not the only one who lives there. What if he put a Biden sign in your yard without your permission? Embarrasingggg.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> If he put a Trump sign in your front yard without your input, would you be ok with that?


In my neighborhood if you posted a Trump sign your car would get key’d at a minimum and maybe worse.

I used to hang my family’s Gadsden flag for many years on the 4th. My mom gave it to me because she was scared to fly it. My wife’s car got key’d to the metal and it was a nice car. This was years ago before Trump. The cheapest house in my neighborhood is over a million.

You gotta know where you’re at.

Pride flags, BLM signs, love means love signs, etc... all day long here.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

Sfort said:


> You and he need to negotiate. Does he have your permission to hang a conventional marriage flag?


Not sure what that is honestly. He isn’t against same sex marriage though.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If he put a Trump sign in your front yard without your input, would you be ok with that?





oldshirt said:


> If he put a Trump sign in your front yard without your input, would you be ok with that?


Point taken. I would cringe but would have to respect it… I may not be in the closet about being bi, but I am a closet Trump voter 2020. My family & friends would faint. Neighbors not so much, it’s a mixed bag around here. (Upstate NY suburb) no one destroys each other’s property in our cul-de-sac there are Trump stickers & pride flags, but mostly American flags. Which shows unity, I like to think.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> In my neighborhood if you posted a Trump sign your car would get key’d at a minimum and maybe worse.
> 
> I used to hang my family’s Gadsden flag for many years on the 4th. My mom gave it to me because she was scared to fly it. My wife’s car got key’d to the metal and it was a nice car. This was years ago before Trump. The cheapest house in my neighborhood is over a million.
> 
> ...


That’s horrible about your wife’s car! No property destruction around here, live & let live.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

C.C. says ... said:


> Well yea, since you’re not the only one who lives there. What if he put a Biden sign in your yard without your permission? Embarrasingggg.


Lol he would never. Unless it said Biden cheated!


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

JAHnonymous said:


> That’s horrible about your wife’s car! No property destruction around here, live & let live.


I agree it is sad. There is one guy half a block a way with a thin blue line flag I’m waiting to see how long it says up before his house gets smashed up.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ccpowerslave said:


> In my neighborhood if you posted a Trump sign your car would get key’d at a minimum and maybe worse.
> 
> I used to hang my family’s Gadsden flag for many years on the 4th. My mom gave it to me because she was scared to fly it. My wife’s car got key’d to the metal and it was a nice car. This was years ago before Trump. The cheapest house in my neighborhood is over a million.
> 
> ...


This illustrates my point.

People are Aholes. 

Where I grew up back in the day, if someone flew a rainbow flag, you’d be getting off easy with only your car getting keyed. 

Anything with any kind of social/political statement can put you at risk whether it be Trump or Biden, BLM, LGBT or whatever. 

If you are both aware of and willing to accept those risks in order to support your beliefs, then so be it. But IMHO a public political statement on your home needs to be discussed and agreed upon by both.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

Def see both sides here. Feeling like a hypocrite too, like I said not so much in the closet sexually anymore, but politically I am! I wish they didn’t have to be seen as conflicting, there were openly gay Trump supporters! Just not in mainstream media. As a couple, we’ve been been playing it neutral in public just to avoid the drama. So I guess it’s best to keep our home front that way.

Although I wish he felt more comfortable being a visible “ally”, I’ll just continue to wear my rainbow watch this month, because it IS more personal to me as an individual. I took this matter personally & was hurt (pregnant!) But life’s too short to fight about flags.

Thanks.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Here is the thing -- I feel your H (could be completely off-base here) views YOUR sexuality as something between you and him and does not want to advertise stuff to the outside world -- keep your sex life private. In all fairness to that, I agree. NOBODY needs to know your/his sexuality or sex life). 

HE views that i think because he KNOWS you are bi. People in the outside world, unless they know that about you, are probably thinking you are just a supporter of LGBTQ rights -- an ally as you say.

I do think it should be discussed between you first.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Here is the thing -- I feel your H (could be completely off-base here) views YOUR sexuality as something between you and him and does not want to advertise stuff to the outside world -- keep your sex life private. In all fairness to that, I agree. NOBODY needs to know your/his sexuality or sex life).
> 
> HE views that i think because he KNOWS you are bi. People in the outside world, unless they know that about you, are probably thinking you are just a supporter of LGBTQ rights -- an ally as you say.
> 
> I do think it should be discussed between you first.


Maybe. I’ll ask if he brings it up again. Not trying to advertise my sexuality, but show support. Was going to take it down June 30 & put up an Independence Day flag. Something new each month, you know?


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## overrnbw (Jun 16, 2021)

Politics are touchy, but I would be careful of doing things that attract attention. I wouldn't put up a Trump or Biden sign bc it attracts a fight. I don't advertise my religion either. I don't tell people what to do, but most people do. And in our culture, the media has everyone charged up ready to kill each other at a moment's notice. Some people have always been private with their lives.

Anyways, this is neither good nor bad, it's just up to you guys to figure out.

I hope the hyper politicized world goes away, they have the masses addicted to their media like drug addicts.


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## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Funny related story. The youth pastor asked to have lunch with me a year or two ago. Near the end of the meal he said something like, "So a discussion was overheard and it implied that your daughter might be gay. I didn't know if you knew or if she'd talked to you or anything."

My response was, "I think it would be fun to walk my daughter and her girlfriend up to the 3rd pew where we normally sit just to see if anyone or just who lost their minds in the church." Through the mom, the family has been going to the church for 4+ generations so there might be conflicted feelings. They (and now me, I guess) are obviously one of them but the church itself doesn't recognize same-sex marriage. I wouldn't mind poking the bear but I doubt my daughter would agree or be on board.

And that was basically the end of the conversation because he had no idea how to follow that up.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

We don't do flags here, but it should be something you both decide on. 
Someone in my local Facebook page was asking for a rainbow bandana to put round her dogs neck when she takes it out, come on now I thought, that is just mad. 
I just wish those who are gay would just get on and live their lives like the rest of us do without fanfare.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> Here is the thing -- I feel your H (could be completely off-base here) views YOUR sexuality as something between you and him and does not want to advertise stuff to the outside world -- keep your sex life private. In all fairness to that, I agree. NOBODY needs to know your/his sexuality or sex life).
> 
> I do think it should be discussed between you first.


I agree with the quoted point of view.
Adding to it a wider perspective about what is frequently neglected.
Not mainly the distinction between the individual privacy and the public domain, which use to be fiercly supported.
But about what are the "comnons" of a couple, so private as if public. 
What is not for only one of them and nether from others to have part of it but only two, their solely "domain".
So, may be, it´s not only about sexual couple privacy
But also the place you both share is, as seen by him, as something that shouldn´t be subject of unilateral decisions.
And EVEN if he would agree about the specifics being asked for, what happened can be seen as simulaneously "excludding" him while "includding" all others outside.

May be I´m wrong but explore this perspective.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> We don't do flags here, but it should be something you both decide on.
> Someone in my local Facebook page was asking for a rainbow bandana to put round her dogs neck when she takes it out, come on now I thought, that is just mad.
> I just wish those who are gay would just get on and live their lives like the rest of us do without fanfare.


It’s not really mad. I know people who put bandanas on their dogs all the time. Halloween ones, Christmas ones, 4th of July. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Well, I think you have the right to fly the flag but I think the way you went about it was totally wrong. 

I think there are two issues here:

Flying of any flag/ displaying banners etc: Let’s generalise this to include say, political, sports or any other kind of flags and banners. I would always, as a matter of simple courtesy, discuss anything like this with my wife before displaying anything. She shares the house with me and quite rightly should have a say in what adorns it. 

Bisexuality: What is your husband’s real issue here? Is it indicating to the world that you are gay? Is he concerned that the hanging of a rainbow flag may result In damage to your property or your family? You say you are not in the closet, your husband is aware of your bi-sexuality and seemingly enjoys some elements of that lifestyle. So, is the issue that your husband is uncomfortable with you publicly making statements about your sex life, rather than being uncomfortable with people knowing you are bi? Personally, my view is that our sex life is private between us and neither of us discuss it with anyone else. Also, wanting to keep your sex life private does not mean he is ashamed of you, far from it by the sounds of things.

I think you are right to be proud of who you are and to support Gay Rights. Very many people in the UK will display Gay Pride flags, attend rallies and parades etc when they are not gay. They do it to show support for human rights and I am sure people in other countries do the same.

Again, because you are a couple and it is about simple courtesy, I would have thought it was better to discuss and agree how you can show your support for Gay Pride.

If you husband is ashamed of your sexuality, then you obviously have some deeper discussions coming up but I wouldn’t jump to conclusions.

On a far wider scale, comments about sexual and political intolerance were quite shocking to me.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> Here is the thing -- I feel your H (could be completely off-base here) views YOUR sexuality as something between you and him and does not want to advertise stuff to the outside world -- keep your sex life private. In all fairness to that, I agree. NOBODY needs to know your/his sexuality or sex life).
> 
> HE views that i think because he KNOWS you are bi. People in the outside world, unless they know that about you, are probably thinking you are just a supporter of LGBTQ rights -- an ally as you say.
> 
> I do think it should be discussed between you first.


I was thinking the same thing.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Not a hill worth dying on, IMO...

A cop once gave me some good advice...He said, people that put all that political **** on their car are only putting targets on their back...What could be a harmless bumper sticker of a team that you like, could be just the team that knocked someone's team out of the playoffs...And the same for just about anything else, IMO...Perhaps think about that the next time a cop doesn't cut you slack when he pulls you over..

I never really understood the need for people to publicly express their political or other views...No one really cares anyway.. Have your viewpoints and live your life...Its hard enough to do without worrying that someone is going to bring their German Shepherd to deliberately crap on your petunias because you like a politician or a movement...I mean, they are POS people, but you can't control it...Not enough hours in a day for that..


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> In my neighborhood if you posted a Trump sign your car would get key’d at a minimum and maybe worse.
> 
> I used to hang my family’s Gadsden flag for many years on the 4th. My mom gave it to me because she was scared to fly it. *My wife’s car got key’d to the metal and it was a nice car. * This was years ago before Trump. The cheapest house in my neighborhood is over a million.
> 
> ...


This is what garages are for. Although, the house next door which has a 3 car garage has never had a car parked in it through 27 years and 4 owners. People have way too much crap.

I say to fly flags at your own peril. You never know if some nutjob lives on your street.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

JAHnonymous said:


> Hello all!
> Bisexual 35 year old female married to 35 year old straight male, (7 months pregnant with our 2nd baby.) As it is June, and it’s common in our area to show support to the LGBTQ+ community, I hung a pride flag along with our usual American flag in front of our home. My husband saw on security camera & called literally a minute later saying what kind of flag did you hang, I’m not comfortable with that, etc. I understood but was still hurt by this. He knows who I am, has had the pleasure of experiencing me with other women, yet when it comes to this what is he embarrassed? He is politically conservative. I wish that didn’t have a part in this, but I think it does. Yes he pays the mortgage but we supposedly share this home & I want to be able to be myself. He says I should have consulted him & it shouldn’t be the same size as US flag, like I desiccated it. So, any insight on this?
> Was I wrong?
> It’s down now, “from the wind.” But he said it really bothered him.  I don’t want to feel ashamed anymore.


Tell him about people like me?

I spent six years as an infantryman, deployed to iraq(before the withdraw).

Then i spent six years deploying with green berets, providing tactical signals intelligence while on the ground with them. Deployed to Afghanistan and all over the northern half of Africa. I personally knew the four Americans that got killed in the Tongo Tongo ambush. Alexander Conrad (died in somalia in 2018) was one of my closest friends.

And now i do a job that I'm not going to talk about on a public forum. I know everyone in the world who does my current job, by name and face and background.

I fully support LGBTQ rights. I am bi, and i joined before DADT was repealed, so i know what that was like.

I have a flag that is covered in signatures from Afghanistan... Some of the people who signed it aren't alive anymore...

The pride flag has a completely different meaning than the American flag. If you are flying the American flag above the pride flag, i don't see how that amounts to desecration.

When i joined, it was illegal for me to exist. I could have been kicked out under an other than honorable discharge if anyone simply suspected that i was bi. I wouldn't actually have to have a same sex relationship... The suspicion alone was enough to kick me out with an other-than-honorable discharge.

I'm still in the army, and every time i see a pride flag, i remember that i don't have to hide anymore. DADT isn't a thing any more.

Things have changed a lot since i joined. For the better.

I would ask your husband to fly the flag!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> It’s not really mad. I know people who put bandanas on their dogs all the time. Halloween ones, Christmas ones, 4th of July. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I adore dogs, I have had 5 very lovely rescue dogs but I dont believe in dressing them up or using them to make some sort of political statement or other point. Surely they are animals not placards.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

As'laDain said:


> Tell him about people like me?
> 
> I spent six years as an infantryman, deployed to iraq(before the withdraw).
> 
> ...


Thank you for your service. 
It does boggle my mind that this is a conversation we are still having in 2021.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> I never really understood the need for people to publicly express their political or other views...No one really cares anyway..


Yes, no one cares. Completely agree. A bumper sticker or flag or whatever, will change literally no ones mind. Agreed. 

There's still a massive reason behind it - if a politician or whatever can get you to have a yard sign, bumpersticker, flag, whatever - once a person put's it up, they will NOT change their mind, no matter how many stupid things that candidate has done (if it's political). It's an offshoot of the Asch Conformity Paradigm if anyone is interested in the research behind it. Generally, once you've publicly declared something, even if you know it's wrong, you'll still stick with it.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

@JAHnonymous , why do you feel you have to fly the lgtqbxft flag? Why do you feel you have to advertise your sexuality? I'm all for your sexuality and it's great, etc but itrw, straight women and men don't fly flags advertising they support straight sex. And if they did, would get made fun of.

So is it unreasonable that the lgtqbxxr flag may get some grief?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> @JAHnonymous , why do you feel you have to fly the lgtqbxft flag? Why do you feel you have to advertise your sexuality? I'm all for your sexuality and it's great, etc but itrw, straight women and men don't fly flags advertising they support straight sex. And if they did, would get made fun of.
> 
> So is it unreasonable that the lgtqbxxr flag may get some grief?


I don’t think it’s about advertising ones sexuality. It’s a sign of support for a minority population that has been discriminated against.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> @JAHnonymous , why do you feel you have to fly the lgtqbxft flag? Why do you feel you have to advertise your sexuality? I'm all for your sexuality and it's great, etc but itrw, straight women and men don't fly flags advertising they support straight sex. And if they did, would get made fun of.
> 
> So is it unreasonable that the lgtqbxxr flag may get some grief?


Straight people have never had to protest for their rights to simply exist just like everyone else. It's honestly that simple.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

dubsey said:


> Straight people have never had to protest for their rights to simply exist just like everyone else. It's honestly that simple.


Straight people have to fight for their rights more than ever nowadays, where have you been?

Try throwing a Straight and Proud parade, like the lgbqtsdee crowd, and see if that flies.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> Straight people have to fight for their rights more than ever nowadays, where have you been?
> 
> Try throwing a Straight and Proud parade, like the lgbqtsdee crowd, and see if that flies.


Straight people have to fight for nothing. They've never not had all of their rights. Tell me, what rights are straight people fighting for that they're in danger of losing?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

dubsey said:


> Straight people have to fight for nothing. They've never not had all of their rights. Tell me, what rights are straight people fighting for that they're in danger of losing?


Apparently VS modeling jobs, and losing jobs to affirmative action policies that hire less qualified lgtbqrr persons just so they can virtue signal.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> Apparently VS modeling jobs, and losing jobs to affirmative action policies that hire less qualified lgtbqrr persons just so they can virtue signal.


they lost their job due to a change in marketing strategy. They weren't let go because they were straight.

Try again.

Not to mention, having that specific job isn't a right.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> This is what garages are for.


Only a few houses on my street have a garage big enough for her car. Mine is full of gym equipment and wouldn’t fit it anyway.

My driveway on the other hand I could park about 5 cars. In this case hers was parked on the street and I’m glad because my car was even nicer and more expensive and had a $7k custom paint job. If it got key’d I’d cry inside. Sold that and now I have a truck I haven’t washed in 6 months. Way less worries.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

The inability to hang a flag that broadcasts your sexual preferences is hardly not being able to "be yourself".

Do you see conservative men flying "I like p**sy" flags in their front lawn?


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Do you see conservative men flying "I like p**sy" flags in their front lawn?


False equivalency

Show me all the times men have been discriminated against and had less rights than another human for liking *****?


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> Apparently VS modeling jobs, and losing jobs to affirmative action policies that hire less qualified lgtbqrr persons just so they can virtue signal.


Hold up! Why do you assume those VS models are straight? They are the women men want to see going at each other. 😂


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

dubsey said:


> they lost their job due to a change in marketing strategy. They weren't let go because they were straight.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Not to mention, having that specific job isn't a right.


Ok, then I can not hire LGBTQLMOPZYZ+-~$ people on account of them being mentally ill.

Being employed isn't a right.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Ok, then I can not hire LGBTQLMOPZYZ+-~$ people on account of them being mentally ill.
> 
> Being employed isn't a right.


In that vein employers can get mental health checks on all potential employees? No one on mood stabilizers, anxiety meds etc?


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

dubsey said:


> False equivalency
> 
> Show me all the times men have been discriminated against and had less rights than another human for liking ***?


Have you read the internet lately?


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Ok, then I can not hire LGBTQLMOPZYZ+-~$ people on account of them being mentally ill.
> 
> Being employed isn't a right.


Being gay isn't in the DSM, so you may have some legal issues depending on the size and type of business you run, but yes, I'd agree being employed isn't a right.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> In that vein employers can get mental health checks on all potential employees? No one on mood stabilizers, anxiety meds etc?


Sure, I certainly wouldn't hire anyone who was mentally unstable.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BioFury said:


> Have you read the internet lately?


wow


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

dubsey said:


> wow


But here's a real example. A close friend of mine was seeking a promotion within the company he had worked for, for a bit over a year. Everyone agreed that he was qualified, and deserved the position, but you know what they told him? They couldn't give him the job because they hadn't interviewed enough minorities for the position.

So he was blatantly discriminated against because of his lack of "minority" racial/sexual/whatever status. Essentially, he wasn't enough of a victim to deserve being handed the job on account of all the "oppression" he experiences.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Sure, I certainly wouldn't hire anyone who was mentally unstable.


So you would advocate for that type of invasion into someone’s life? Do you have any idea how many millions of people are on medication for various mental issues. Fortunately being homosexual isn’t a mental issue so they would be excluded from that type of discrimination.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

BioFury said:


> But here's a real example. A close friend of mine was seeking a promotion within the company he had worked for, for a bit over a year. Everyone agreed that he was qualified, and deserved the position, but you know what they told him? They couldn't give him the job because they hadn't interviewed enough minorities for the position.
> 
> So he was blatantly discriminated against because of his lack of "minority" racial/sexual/whatever status. Essentially, he wasn't enough of a victim to deserve being handed the job on account of all the "oppression" he experiences.


Most companies over a certain now do not allow a person to be hired without interviewing a broad array of candidates. I've had to go through this as well as a hiring manager. In nearly all cases, I've hired the person I originally thought I could. There were a couple times that I/we ended up hiring another internal candidate I didn't know, that was only available because I had to post the job and not give it to the person I thought I would. They were better qualified. It's a tough conversation to have with someone else who you know who was also qualified, but just lesser qualified.

Not saying your friend wasn't discriminated against, but, there are reasons for the process when a company is over a certain size.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> So you would advocate for that type of invasion into someone’s life? Do you have any idea how many millions of people are on medication for various mental issues. Fortunately being homosexual isn’t a mental issue so they would be excluded from that type of discrimination.


No, it would be DADT. But if I learned someone was mentally ill, I would not continue to employ them.

Homosexuality isn't considered a mental illness because it isn't politically expedient for it to retain that label. It, however, is just as twisted as it was 100 years ago. But hey, if two gay guys want to fudge-pack one another into oblivion in the privacy of their homes, and keep it to themselves, that's fine. I don't have any issue with that. Were I in a position of power, I would not try to find out, catch them, or anything else.

But I will, and do, resent it being waved around in my face like a two year old demanding attention, as though they have some right to my approval.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> No, it would be DADT. But if I learned someone was mentally ill, I would not continue to employ them.
> 
> Homosexuality isn't considered a mental illness because it isn't politically expedient for it to retain that label. It, however, is just as twisted as it was 100 years ago. But hey, if two gay guys want to fudge-pack one another into oblivion in the privacy of their homes, and keep it to themselves, that's fine. I don't have any issue with that. Were I in a position of power, I would not try to find out, catch them, or anything else.
> 
> But I will, and do, resent it being waved around in my face like a two year old demanding attention, as though they have some right to my approval.


Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time. The fact that you don’t want to see it is irrelevant. I see same sex couples all the time holding hands in public just like straight couples. Why should they not be able to do that like you or I? Now having new grandchildren I am grateful that society has moved away from shaming people for who they are, the way they were born.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> We don't do flags here, but it should be something you both decide on.
> Someone in my local Facebook page was asking for a rainbow bandana to put round her dogs neck when she takes it out, come on now I thought, that is just mad.
> I just wish those who are gay would just get on and live their lives like the rest of us do without fanfare.


That may be possible in the UK, but not so much in the US.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> REDACTED


Just because someone doesn't choose to support a cause doesn't mean they are opposed to it.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> REDACTED


See here’s the problem right here. ^

I don’t care or mind nor is it any of my business who’s gay or not gay. Live and let live. But to call the man a conservative asshole for coming home to see a gay flag flying on his house, without even being consulted with first, is wrong. The OP admits she should’ve consulted with him first.




BioFury said:


> But I will, and do, resent it being waved around in my face like a two year old demanding attention, as though they have some right to my approval


That’s it right there. People are always talking about the ‘hate’ they get for being gay and then turn around and hate on conservatives for not marching in some gay parade or flying a gay flag to show their “support”. They DEMAND you show your “support.”They’re worse than the conservatives they’re talking about.

I agree with anyone’s right to love anyone they wish, but it doesn’t mean I have to fly some flag about it. And to be called a conservative asshole for not doing that, makes the gay “supporters” look like the way bigger assholes.

You have a right to fly whatever flag you want.

I have a right not to.

Putting a gay flag on a dog. Why? Is your dog gay? When some **** hater comes along and kicks the **** out of your dog, maybe you’ll wish you wouldn’t have made him such a target.

If anyone wants to fly a flag, whatever. More power to them. I don’t hate on them for it.

So why can’t that same courtesy be extended to people that DON’T want to fly a flag? Instead, they’re called conservative assholes. Makes no sense to me.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

dubsey said:


> they lost their job due to a change in marketing strategy. They weren't let go because they were straight.
> 
> Try again.
> 
> Not to mention, having that specific job isn't a right.


And having that specific job, or any job isn't a right just because you say your LGBTQ, or any skin color, or ethnicity. 

Spend more of your time educating yourself on the bars that have been lowered, hires to meet quotas, and firings because speaking negatively or just truthfully about non woke approved topics.

Then get back with the adults.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

C.C. says ... said:


> See here’s the problem right here. ^
> 
> I don’t care or mind nor is it any of my business who’s gay or not gay. Live and let live. But to call the man a conservative asshole for coming home to see a gay flag flying on his house, without even being consulted with first, is wrong. The OP admits she should’ve consulted with him first.
> 
> ...


Well said.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Hold up! Why do you assume those VS models are straight? They are the women men want to see going at each other. 😂


And I'm all for [email protected]

I never put them in the straight or bi category, just the not over weight category.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> And having that specific job, or any job isn't a right just because you say your LGBTQ, or any skin color, or ethnicity.
> 
> Spend more of your time educating yourself on the bars that have been lowered, hires to meet quotas, and firings because speaking negatively or just truthfully about non woke approved topics.
> 
> Then get back with the adults.


Nice insult, but my knowledge in this area is pretty much going to be in your face. I sold my first business at age 24 with just enough employess at the time to require an HR department. I really never need to work again if I don't want to. That said, I do work at a fortune 50 company - just to have something to do - with over 1500 people beneath me on our org chart. I'm well versed in hiring practices and have to work with HR all the damn time.

That said, it's entirely irrelevant to your description. They didn't lose their jobs due to a quota. The new people didn't get their jobs due to a quota. It was a change in marketing strategy. It's just that damn simple.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

dubsey said:


> False equivalency
> 
> Show me all the times men have been discriminated against and had less rights than another human for liking ***?





dubsey said:


> Nice insult, but my knowledge in this area is pretty much going to be in your face. I sold my first business at age 24 with just enough employess at the time to require an HR department. I really never need to work again if I don't want to. That said, I do work at a fortune 50 company - just to have something to do - with over 1500 people beneath me on our org chart. I'm well versed in hiring practices and have to work with HR all the damn time.
> 
> That said, it's entirely irrelevant to your description. They didn't lose their jobs due to a quota. The new people didn't get their jobs due to a quota. It was a change in marketing strategy. It's just that damn simple.


So you should know. How are you not accepting what's being seen in the employment marketplace and higher education circles. Head in sand?


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

CountryMike said:


> So you should know. How are you not accepting what's being seen in the employment marketplace and higher education circles. Head in sand?


Probably because the opening of doors to those previously discriminated against doesn't equal gifting jobs to them.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> There's nothing wrong with supporting Gay Pride with a flag, even on dogs. Sounds to me that a lot of people have a problem with it here. And if the husband has a problem too, he is a conservative asshole. And the wife shouldn't have married him. As simple as that. Bad luck. I feel sorry for her.


Don't make a dog suffer through this 🙄🙄🙄.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> There's nothing wrong with supporting Gay Pride with a flag, even on dogs. Sounds to me that a lot of people have a problem with it here. And if the husband has a problem too, he is a conservative asshole. And the wife shouldn't have married him. As simple as that. Bad luck. I feel sorry for her.


How about flying the Don't Tread On Me flag?


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time. The fact that you don’t want to see it is irrelevant. I see same sex couples all the time holding hands in public just like straight couples. Why should they not be able to do that like you or I? Now having new grandchildren I am grateful that society has moved away from shaming people for who they are, the way they were born.


Perhaps "dawn of time" is just you being figurative, but no, it hasn't.

People should always be shamed for who they are, if who they are is immoral, unproductive, etc. Unless you're saying a 30 year old should be able to have a sexual relationship with your grandchildren. If he wants to, and they want to, who are you to say no?

The issue is that when you pull God out of the equation, all you're left with are arbitrary rules that aren't anything more than opinion. Which naturally begs the question, why should your opinion matter more than mine? Why _shouldn't_ someone shoot you and take everything you have, if there's no higher moral power at work?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Perhaps "dawn of time" is just you being figurative, but no, it hasn't.
> 
> People should always be shamed for who they are, if who they are is immoral, unproductive, etc. Unless you're saying a 30 year old should be able to have a sexual relationship with your grandchildren. If he wants to, and they want to, who are you to say no?
> 
> The issue is that when you pull God out of the equation, all you're left with are arbitrary rules that aren't anything more than opinion. Which naturally begs the question, why should your opinion matter more than mine? Why _shouldn't_ someone shoot you and take everything you have, if there's no higher moral power at work?


No, homosexuals have been around forever. There are billions of good productive people who don’t believe in deities and don’t need threats of hell to behave morally. People who need threats of hell to behave scare me more than those that don’t.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CountryMike said:


> Straight people have to fight for their rights more than ever nowadays, where have you been?
> 
> Try throwing a Straight and Proud parade, like the lgbqtsdee crowd, and see if that flies.


The discrimination is now towards hetrosexuals, especially if they are not for gay marriage. Why can't we all just disagree and accept it?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> No, homosexuals have been around forever. There are billions of good productive people who don’t believe in deities and don’t need threats of hell to behave morally. People who need threats of hell to behave scare me more than those that don’t.


I believe in God but I also had a very lovely mum who bought me up to have good moral values. I don't do stuff out of fear of God. Just because He always knows best.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I believe in God but I also had a very lovely mum who bought me up to have good moral values. I don't do stuff out of fear of God. Just because He always knows best.


That is fine. I have no problem what you believe in and if it makes you a better person that is great.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> The discrimination is now towards hetrosexuals, especially if they are not for gay marriage. Why can't we all just disagree and accept it?


Cite your source. Provide proof. 

How are heterosexuals discriminated against - period, at a systemic level, relative to homosexuals?


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> People who need threats of hell to behave scare me more than those that don’t.


Why? The threat of a consequence for bad behavior exists regardless of religion.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> The discrimination is now towards hetrosexuals, especially if they are not for gay marriage. Why can't we all just disagree and accept it?



Why can't you?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Benbutton said:


> Why? The threat of a consequence for bad behavior exists regardless of religion.


No. Religion extends the threats beyond death. Infractions that are not punished by law like lust in ones heart are punished for eternity in the lake of fire.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

BioFury said:


> Perhaps "dawn of time" is just you being figurative, but no, it hasn't.
> 
> People should always be shamed for who they are, if who they are is immoral, unproductive, etc. Unless you're saying a 30 year old should be able to have a sexual relationship with your grandchildren. If he wants to, and they want to, who are you to say no?
> 
> The issue is that when you pull God out of the equation, all you're left with are arbitrary rules that aren't anything more than opinion. Which naturally begs the question, why should your opinion matter more than mine? Why _shouldn't_ someone shoot you and take everything you have, if there's no higher moral power at work?



Good stuff!

You can find a bigger list of "undesirables"
In this link!









Defining the Enemy


Nazi ideology aimed to promote the myth of an ideal national community and label those who were to be excluded from it as enemies. Propaganda was essential in promoting such myths.




encyclopedia.ushmm.org


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dubsey said:


> Cite your source. Provide proof.
> 
> How are heterosexuals discriminated against - period, at a systemic level, relative to homosexuals?


Plenty of people here loosing jobs for not supporting gay marriage.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> No. Religion extends the threats beyond death. Infractions that are not punished by law like lust in ones heart are punished for eternity in the lake of fire.


The only thing that effects us for eternity is whether we have had all of our sins/wrongdoings forgiven or not.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> The only thing that effects us for eternity is whether we have had all of our sins/wrongdoings forgiven or not.


Well Diana many of us don’t believe in life after death and are not concerned about it.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> No, homosexuals have been around forever. There are billions of good productive people who don’t believe in deities and don’t need threats of hell to behave morally. People who need threats of hell to behave scare me more than those that don’t.


I'd ask you to prove it, but you can't. It has not been around forever, as any normal man will tell you, the thought of fudge-packing some other guy is revolting.

There's no such thing as morality, or right and wrong, outside of God - only the fanciful opinions of other people. People's who's virtue, intelligence, and wisdom extend no farther than anyone else's.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Plenty of people here loosing jobs for not supporting gay marriage.


Cite your source. Support your argument. It's currently unverifiable bull. Those people may have lost their jobs for not supporting gay marriage and being an asshole about it.

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because you don't support gay marriage, and you lost your job, doesn't mean that's the reason you lost your job.

I fired a gay man one time. Does that mean I'm homophobic? No, I fired him because he wasn't doing his job, and I could prove it and had to support my reasoning when he went to HR about it. I had 30 pages of documents and time stamps to prove it.

Support your argument with proof they they were definitively fired for not supporting gay marriage


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

JAHnonymous said:


> Hello all!
> Bisexual 35 year old female married to 35 year old straight male, (7 months pregnant with our 2nd baby.) As it is June, and it’s common in our area to show support to the LGBTQ+ community, I hung a pride flag along with our usual American flag in front of our home. My husband saw on security camera & called literally a minute later saying what kind of flag did you hang, I’m not comfortable with that, etc. I understood but was still hurt by this. He knows who I am, has had the pleasure of experiencing me with other women, yet when it comes to this what is he embarrassed? He is politically conservative. I wish that didn’t have a part in this, but I think it does. Yes he pays the mortgage but we supposedly share this home & I want to be able to be myself. He says I should have consulted him & it shouldn’t be the same size as US flag, like I desiccated it. So, any insight on this?
> Was I wrong?
> It’s down now, “from the wind.” But he said it really bothered him.  I don’t want to feel ashamed anymore.


Flying a flag to show support for a certain sexuality actually doesn't make a lot of sense to this barbarian. Sex has always been more private in my world. I was very involved with some interesting folks when I was younger and what everyone was doing wasn't anyone's business.


----------



## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Did the flag at least have the pastel colours added that celebrate the MAP community......if not......for shame!


----------



## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> No. Religion extends the threats beyond death. Infractions that are not punished by law like lust in ones heart are punished for eternity in the lake of fire.


I'm religious and I don't feel that way at all. If nothing else there is the whole concept of forgiveness of sin that you are overlooking.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

dubsey said:


> Is fudge-packing a woman ok? Lots of straight men do it.


Sure. It's not the act, but who one does it with.

For instance, you don't really care if Joe Biden sniffs and gropes someone, you'd just prefer it were his wife, rather than the visiting middle schoolers.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> Flying a flag to show support for a certain sexuality actually doesn't make a lot of sense to this barbarian. Sex has always been more private in my world. I was very involved with some interesting folks when I was younger and what everyone was doing wasn't anyone's business.


Maybe that's because you have never had to worry about being treated like a criminal for your sexuality? I have. It sucks to constantly worry that someone will find out that you are attracted to the "wrong person" and then you will be punished under criminal law.

For me, it makes perfect sense.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

BioFury said:


> Sure. It's not the act, but who one does it with.
> 
> For instance, you don't really care if Joe Biden sniffs and gropes someone, you'd just prefer it were his wife, rather than the visiting middle schoolers.


So you are saying that consenting adults living as they want is the same as a politician being creepy with minors?


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> So you are saying that consenting adults living as they want is the same as a politician being creepy with minors?


I'm saying they're comparable, in that they both involve activities that would otherwise be acceptable, if not for the identity of the receiving party.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

BioFury said:


> I'm saying they're comparable, in that they both involve activities that would otherwise be acceptable, if not for the identity of the receiving party.


You realize this was the same logic used to put interracial couples in jail, right?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

dubsey said:


> Cite your source. Provide proof.
> 
> *How are heterosexuals discriminated against - period*, at a systemic level, relative to homosexuals?


It's pretty well established that fat/ugly women and short men are "systemically discriminated against", but no one is putting up signs or holding parades so that they can feel more "inclusive"....

I think in general, society has accepted gay people pretty well over my lifetime and it's never been better for them than right now...I have several gay family members including a sibling-never been an issue for me or anyone I know..... While I won't say it's completely accepted, its pretty close at this point...

The truth is that there is always going to be sideways looks by the majority of "normal/typical" people when someone exists outside of that...I think a lot of regular people are just getting weary of the constant shoving down the throat of the concept...Just live your life and enjoy yourselves..If someone doesn't approve then just ignore, like the rest of us do that are considered "outside the box"..


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

hamadryad said:


> It's pretty well established that fat/ugly women and short men are "systemically discriminated against", but no one is putting up signs or holding parades so that they can feel more "inclusive"....
> 
> I think in general, society has accepted gay people pretty well over my lifetime and it's never been better for them than right now...I have several gay family members including a sibling-never been an issue for me or anyone I know..... While I won't say it's completely accepted, its pretty close at this point...
> 
> The truth is that there is always going to be sideways looks by the majority of "normal/typical" people when someone exists outside of that...I think a lot of regular people are just getting weary of the constant shoving down the throat of the concept...Just live your life and enjoy yourselves..If someone doesn't approve then just ignore, like the rest of us do that are considered "outside the box"..



The reason why there is still a fight is because it was't until last year that the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional to discriminate in the work place based on orientation. 

When we are treated the same, we will stop asking to be treated the same.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> You realize this was the same logic used to put interracial couples in jail, right?


This same logic being that we shouldn't have sex with certain people/groups?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

As'laDain said:


> The reason why there is still a fight is because it was't until last year that the supreme court ruled it unconstitutional to discriminate in the work place based on orientation.
> 
> When we are treated the same, we will stop asking to be treated the same.


You conveniently glossed over the importance and gist of the previous post....

What would you tell a guy that was 5 feet tall if he said the same thing you are saying? What if that guy was lobbying congress for laws of special inclusion? Do we need the Supreme Court to get involved here???Ridiculous, right?

I don't know what planet you live on, but most of the gay people i know are all living happily, have great careers and jobs, are welcome and stable members of the community just like everyone else...

What more do you want? Because if it's universal acceptance good luck...Get in line with everyone else...


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

BioFury said:


> This same logic being that we shouldn't have sex with certain people/groups?


That consenting adults should be barred from having sex/relationships with other consenting adults from certain groups. 

Interracial couples were considered immoral.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Well, it looks like the moderators didn't like my opinions... it's ok to bash gay people but it's not ok to bash conservative people. Well done! Don't worry, I'm stopping here. And BTW, you missed a couple of quotes...


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Plenty of people here loosing jobs for not supporting gay marriage.


How would an employer know and what would the official reason be for termination? If people would not broadcast their opinions on matters that are none of their business, they might not *lose (*notice the* single o) *their job. 

One's sexual orientation never bothered me until people started advertising it (why am I supposed to care?) and holding parades where they tramp through and trash other people's neighborhoods.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

hamadryad said:


> It's pretty well established that fat/ugly women and short men are "systemically discriminated against", but no one is putting up signs or holding parades so that they can feel more "inclusive"....
> 
> I think in general, society has accepted gay people pretty well over my lifetime and it's never been better for them than right now...I have several gay family members including a sibling-never been an issue for me or anyone I know..... While I won't say it's completely accepted, its pretty close at this point...
> 
> The truth is that there is always going to be sideways looks by the majority of "normal/typical" people when someone exists outside of that...I think a lot of regular people are just getting weary of the constant shoving down the throat of the concept...Just live your life and enjoy yourselves..If someone doesn't approve then just ignore, like the rest of us do that are considered "outside the box"..


I'll start with what I agree with. Yes, things are much better now. Not perfect, but better. Completely 100 percent agree.

The flag represents the struggle to get there. Fat and ugly people always had the right to marry and could always visit their partners in the hospital.

Interesting you suggest they just ignore bad behavior directed at them. Wouldn't it be easier for everyone else to just be a decent human being and ignore them? Like, you could have not replied to this at all and just ignored it and gone along your merry way?


----------



## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

dubsey said:


> I'll start with what I agree with. Yes, things are much better now. Not perfect, but better. Completely 100 percent agree.
> 
> The flag represents the struggle to get there. Fat and ugly people always had the right to marry and could always visit their partners in the hospital.
> 
> Interesting you suggest they just ignore bad behavior directed at them. Wouldn't it be easier for everyone else to just be a decent human being and ignore them? *Like, you could have not replied to this at all and just ignored it and gone along your merry way?*


And so could have you, right?? It's not life and death here, just a way to kill time once in a while, right??

Sure..in Fantasy Land it all would be great and life would be much easier......Rainbows and unicorns with no bad behavior....but I don't live there and have no plans to go and don't know that one exists anyway...In the meantime, No one gives a crap about my crosses to bear and therefore, i'll take my lumps and ignore those who are ignorant jackasses..

So either fly your flag or STFU? Is that the M/O? That works in 3rd grade, but usually not after that.,,


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> That consenting adults should be barred from having sex/relationships with other consenting adults from certain groups.
> 
> Interracial couples were considered immoral.


Correct, there's nothing wrong with that logic. There are certain groups, or individuals, we should not sleep with.

I would not consider people of other races to be a just addition to the immoral category, just not my cup of tea. Someone adding an inappropriate group to the list does not mean we shouldn't discriminate when deciding who we sleep with.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Correct, there's nothing wrong with that logic. There are certain groups, or individuals, we should not sleep with.
> 
> I would not consider people of other races to be a just addition to the immoral category, just not my cup of tea. Someone adding an inappropriate group to the list does not mean we shouldn't discriminate when deciding who we sleep with.


There are certain groups, or individuals you will not sleep with. Other consenting adults get to make the same decision as to who they will or will not sleep with.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Well Diana many of us don’t believe in life after death and are not concerned about it.


I know that of course. Was answering the post.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> You have yet to address my point. If there is no higher power, then there is no right and wrong. Just an arbitrary opinion which a person, or group of people, seek to impose on others.
> 
> So you tell me, in the absence of the divine, why is murder wrong? Why is rape wrong? If one wants to engage in these behaviors, and can get away with them, why shouldn't they?


You are making an assumption that without a higher power there is no right or wrong. Not doing to other people what you don’t want done to you doesn’t need a deity.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Maybe that's because you have never had to worry about being treated like a criminal for your sexuality? I have. It sucks to constantly worry that someone will find out that you are attracted to the "wrong person" and then you will be punished under criminal law.
> 
> For me, it makes perfect sense.


It's been a long time since that has happened in the west.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> How would an employer know and what would the official reason be for termination? If people would not broadcast their opinions on matters that are none of their business, they might not *lose (*notice the* single o) *their job.
> 
> One's sexual orientation never bothered me until people started advertising it (why am I supposed to care?) and holding parades where they tramp through and trash other people's neighborhoods.


Others report them for something that may have said on face book or whatever. They know why they are loosing their job, they are told.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> Why can't you?


I do. I believe that people are free to make their own choices as long as others are free to disagree with some of them.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> You are making an assumption that without a higher power there is no right or wrong. Not doing to other people what you don’t want done to you doesn’t need a deity.


Sure it does. Why shouldn't I take your stuff if it's of benefit to me?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Sure it does. Why shouldn't I take your stuff if it's of benefit to me?


Do you want your stuff taken?


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dubsey said:


> Cite your source. Support your argument. It's currently unverifiable bull. Those people may have lost their jobs for not supporting gay marriage and being an asshole about it.
> 
> Correlation does not equal causation. Just because you don't support gay marriage, and you lost your job, doesn't mean that's the reason you lost your job.
> 
> ...


There have been quite a few well publicised cases here where people lost their job for simply disagreeing on gay marriage for example. They were sacked and were told why. One appealed and they had to give him a job back, they gave him a job but not his one, a lesser paid one. All he said was one comment on Facebook that said he thought gay marriage was a step too far. That was it.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Others report them for something that may have said on face book or whatever. They know why they are loosing their job, they are told.


Are you sure they're not fired for bad spelling?


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Do you want your stuff taken?


What does that have to do with why I shouldn't take your stuff?


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> What does that have to do with why I shouldn't take your stuff?


Because humans have figured out that it is wrong. We as a species figured it out long ago. We needed to modify our behavior in order to function as a group. Can’t go around stealing, raping and killing and function as a society. 
We have had hundreds of thousands of years to work it out. What did humans do before the Bible was written and these “rules” were laid down?


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Because humans have figured out that it is wrong. We as a species figured it out long ago. We needed to modify our behavior in order to function as a group. Can’t go around stealing, raping and killing and function as a society.
> We have had hundreds of thousands of years to work it out. What did humans do before the Bible was written and these “rules” were laid down?


You're merely expressing that people function more efficiently in groups. Efficiency has no relation to morality.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> You're merely expressing that people function more efficiently in groups. Efficiency has no relation to morality.


Empathy certainly does and humans have been equipped with that for 100,000 years as well.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> Are you sure they're not fired for bad spelling?


Of course not.


----------



## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> Empathy certainly does and humans have been equipped with that for 100,000 years as well.


Merely because someone feels badly about something, does not mean that they're wrong. Nor does someone being offended, mean that they're in the right.

Human emotion is no barometer of morality.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Merely because someone feels badly about something, does not mean that they're wrong. Nor does someone being offended, mean that they're in the right.
> 
> Human emotion is no barometer of morality.


So explain why our species was able to develop like it has. We have been around over 100,000 years. The deity you speak of came on the scene when? 
Also human emotion absolutely effects morality. People generally don’t like doing things that make them feel bad.


----------



## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> There have been quite a few well publicised cases here where people lost their job for simply disagreeing on gay marriage for example. They were sacked and were told why. One appealed and they had to give him a job back, they gave him a job but not his one, a lesser paid one. All he said was one comment on Facebook that said he thought gay marriage was a step too far. That was it.


So, you have, maybe a single case you can cite, but didn't, or you made it up, whatever.

On the basis those, or even if we accept your claim of several, That means discrimination is more against heterosexuals than lgbtq now?

Understood. 

For the record, if it's true, I'd say it's equally as wrong. No doubt. But to say heterosexuals are the ones discriminated against more than homosexuals now is absurd.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

This is becoming a religious like debate.
It would not be so strange to find a post from a user called Torquemada.
Good by to everyone, I´m out of this.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> So explain why our species was able to develop like it has. We have been around over 100,000 years. The deity you speak of came on the scene when?
> Also human emotion absolutely effects morality. People generally don’t like doing things that make them feel bad.


That's a pretty broad query, so I don't really know what you're asking. The deity I speak of created the world in which we live. One would have to be supremely ignorant to miss the intelligent design present in the life around us. It is mathematically impossible for even one of the life forms present on this earth to have evolved into it's current state by random chance/mutation. This is aside from the fact that life can only come from life. Spontaneous generation is a fallacy, and has been proven as such.

The two may interact, but they aren't even strongly correlated, much less synonymous. Case in point, if raping women makes a man feel good, that doesn't make it ok. And such is not the case merely because the woman feels bad about it. As there is no logical reason her feelings about it should matter any more than his do.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> Well, it looks like the moderators didn't like my opinions... it's ok to bash gay people but it's not ok to bash conservative people. Well done! Don't worry, I'm stopping here. And BTW, you missed a couple of quotes...


You were rude to the husband of the OP and also the OP, as she pointed out that they were both Conservatives so your attack was an attack on both of them.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> That's a pretty broad query, so I don't really know what you're asking. The deity I speak of created the world in which we live. One would have to be supremely ignorant to miss the intelligent design present in the life around us. It is mathematically impossible for even one of the life forms present on this earth to have evolved into it's current state by random chance/mutation. This is aside from the fact that life can only come from life. Spontaneous generation is a fallacy, and has been proven as such.
> 
> The two may interact, but they aren't even strongly correlated, much less synonymous. Case in point, if raping women makes a man feel good, that doesn't make it ok. And such is not the case merely because the woman feels bad about it. As there is no logical reason her feelings about it should matter any more than his do.


I was warned that this was turning into a religious debate which it is. Suffice it to say that the issue many have with homosexuals is a religious issue. I guess for me I think I don’t care if you think fairies live in shoes, just don’t tell others how to wear their shoes as not to disturb the fairies. I will bow out now. Thanks for the discussion.


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> Well, it looks like the moderators didn't like my opinions... it's ok to bash gay people but it's not ok to bash conservative people. Well done! Don't worry, I'm stopping here. And BTW, you missed a couple of quotes...


Funny you should say that, my negative comment back to you regarding liberals was also deleted.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Torninhalf said:


> I was warned that this was turning into a religious debate which it is. Suffice it to say that the issue many have with homosexuals is a religious issue. I guess for me I think I don’t care if you think fairies live in shoes, just don’t tell others how to wear their shoes as not to disturb the fairies. I will bow out now. Thanks for the discussion.


How could a thread about opposing homosexuality not turn into a religious debate, if, as you pointed out, the primary opposition to it is religious?

My point is that the ideas you presented are inconsistent, and not supported by any factual analysis. Apart from the divine, there is no logical reason for any of us to act in anything but self interest. It is true that self interests might be served best, in certain circumstances, by benefitting a larger group, so as to gain their cooperation. But that is hardly universal.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

BioFury said:


> How could a thread about opposing homosexuality not turn into a religious debate, if, as you pointed out, the primary opposition to it is religious?
> 
> My point is that the ideas you presented are inconsistent, and not supported by any factual analysis. Apart from the divine, there is no logical reason for any of us to act in anything but self interest. It is true that self interests might be served best, in certain circumstances, by benefitting a larger group, so as to gain their cooperation. But that is hardly universal.


You seem to side step my questions only to continue in a vein that has no merit. You are free to have your faith which by definition is a belief without evidence. Others are free to live their lives unfettered by your faith. This debate has raged on an on. Consenting adults are free to sleep with whomever they like. Other consenting adults are free to display flags in support of people who have been marginalized. It isn’t your cup of tea so by no means don’t drink it. 😁


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> Of course not.



Lose ="not win:"
Loose="not tight"


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> So explain why our species was able to develop like it has. We have been around over 100,000 years. The deity you speak of came on the scene when?
> Also human emotion absolutely effects morality. People generally don’t like doing things that make them feel bad.


Develop into what? A violent one that still harms itself, other species and destroys it's own planet?


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

I´m for ONCE breaking my purpose of staying away from this thread to bring to the attention of the moderators that this overflowed the scope of the reasonable debate related to what was the original post.
To bring here "inteligent design" vs evolution, *personal* faith (*no mater which one*) as only source of ethics and as if should be obeyed by everyone, political prefferences "validated" by religious believes, and intolerance is TOO MUCH, even if whithin the site guidelines. 
I also have my own strong positions about the twisted turn of the discussion. 
But I don´t have the need to flaunt them in orher one´s faces


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> You were rude to the husband of the OP and also the OP, as she pointed out that they were both Conservatives so your attack was an attack on both of them.


I don't see it like that, but fair enough. Maybe I was a bit rude.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dubsey said:


> So, you have, maybe a single case you can cite, but didn't, or you made it up, whatever.
> 
> On the basis those, or even if we accept your claim of several, That means discrimination is more against heterosexuals than lgbtq now?
> 
> ...


When I have time I will post some of them. Have visitors coming soon.

In the UK Christians are discriminated against more that gays now. Most are too scared to say a word about gay marriage or similar for fear of reprisals. 
Apparently we must all think the way they do or else.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> When I have time I will post some of them. Have visitors coming soon.
> 
> In the UK Christians are discriminated against more that gays now. Most are too scared to say a word about gay marriage or similar for fear of reprisals.
> Apparently we must all think the way they do or else.


I'd be more interested in data that supports your argument than single cases.

Truly, I'd find it interesting. A cursory Google search doesn't support your hypothesis.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

dubsey said:


> I'd be more interested in data that supports your argument than single cases.
> 
> Truly, I'd find it interesting. A cursory Google search doesn't support your hypothesis.


LOL. Google.

Google lets you see what they WANT you to see.

Try DuckDuckGo. They don't try to skew the results to feed a certain narrative.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

As a white male hetero Christian, the notion that I am being discriminated against is preposterous. At least where I live.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Ok. I'm sure duckduckgo will find several reviewed studies showing heterosexuals as the new unfortunate leaders facing discrimination. It's obviously a search engine problem I was having. Thanks.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> LOL. Google.
> 
> Google lets you see what they WANT you to see.
> 
> Try DuckDuckGo. They don't try to skew the results to feed a certain narrative.


Amazes me that people still use Google


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

There are several prominent cases where people opposed to state sanctioned gay marriage have lost their careers or have been sued in court. 

A couple that pop to mind are the former Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich who was forced to resign over a political contribution to Prop 8.

Another is the Masterpiece Cakeshop vs Colorado which went all the way to the Supreme Court. Would have been hard to miss if you pay attention to US news. He’s still in the news and constantly having to fight lawsuits.

Those are two that come to mind off the top of my head.

Full disclosure, my wife and I donated the recommended donation to the legal fund to fight against Prop 8 believing that everyone should have equal rights under the law.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> There are several prominent cases where people opposed to state sanctioned gay marriage have lost their careers or have been sued in court.
> 
> A couple that pop to mind are the former Mozilla CEO Brendan Eich who was forced to resign over a political contribution to Prop 8.
> 
> ...


Is that the man that wouldn’t bake a cake for a gay wedding?


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Ok, so one side has 2 lawsuits and the other side has almost all of human history. Seems like the tables are about even...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Is that the man that wouldn’t bake a cake for a gay wedding?


Yeah. If my memory serves the state is now coming after him for refusing to bake a trans transition celebration cake or whatever that is called (sorry not trying to be a **** I don’t know the term).


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I know the owner of Chick fil A deliberately wont take the company public so that he can run it in the way he chooses, rather than be pressured by groups that will subsequently force him to do it the way they want...He is a devout Christian..


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> Ok, so one side has 2 lawsuits and the other side has almost all of human history. Seems like the tables are about even...


That's my point. The claim that it's close to equal is absurd. I'm not saying it doesn't exist. 

With that, I'm checking out.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

hamadryad said:


> I know the owner of Chick fil A deliberately wont take the company public so that he can run it in the way he chooses, rather than be pressured by groups that will subsequently force him to do it the way they want...He is a devout Christian..


They also have a pretty strong history of donating to anti-homosexual causes, yet they are a booming business. Can we use that to say they aren't being discriminated against?


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Tasorundo said:


> They also have a pretty strong history of donating to anti-homosexual causes, yet they are a booming business. Can we use that to say they aren't being discriminated against?


My guess is most of those people don't have a clue about the politics of the owner...but some part of me thinks that they are actually getting some people to come out there for the sheer purpose of supporting someone that actually stands by his convictions rather than cave to pressure from whatever is the most popular theme of the day.....Like Coke did with the whole "be less white" garbage...

It's not like the food is all that special....Quite frankly, I don't get the hysteria at all..


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Tasorundo said:


> As a white male hetero Christian, the notion that I am being discriminated against is preposterous. At least where I live.


It's happening more and more in the uk, at least for those brave enough to speak out for their faith. Obviously nothing like in some countries but it's gradually getting worse.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> It's happening more and more in the uk, at least for those brave enough to speak out for their faith. Obviously nothing like in some countries but it's gradually getting worse.


Give me a call when they make laws against it where you can go to prison for being Christian.


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## NTA (Mar 28, 2021)

BioFury said:


> The inability to hang a flag that broadcasts your sexual preferences is hardly not being able to "be yourself".
> 
> Do you see conservative men flying "I like p**sy" flags in their front lawn?


yeah, sadly, that's how some men would interpret it. Of course, with men and sex, it doesn't take much.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

NTA said:


> yeah, sadly, that's how some men would interpret it. Of course, with men and sex, it doesn't take much.


It’s not like the rainbow flag says A **** a day keeps the doctor away. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## Benbutton (Oct 3, 2019)

hamadryad said:


> My guess is most of those people don't have a clue about the politics of the owner..


Or a lot of people don't give a shyt about politics, at least not when it comes to something they like.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

When the Chick-fil-A went in my super liberal lefty neighborhood there was a lot of dust kicked up about it in city council meetings, online, and in the local papers.

It now has lines that spill out into traffic and screw up the entire road system around it. People like their chicken sandwiches.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)




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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Massive bear humbles us with his true definition of equality.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

ccpowerslave said:


> When the Chick-fil-A went in my super liberal lefty neighborhood there was a lot of dust kicked up about it in city council meetings, online, and in the local papers.
> 
> It now has lines that spill out into traffic and screw up the entire road system around it. People like their chicken sandwiches.


The Chick-fil-A by me is busy all day. 3 lines at a minimum. I run past there most days and that is the only spot I fear for my life. People NEED their chicken sandwich!


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Massive bear humbles us with his true definition of equality.


There are some even better definitions not so biased by tastes.
From the ones at hand near myself, scientists (true ones) ussually hace almost the same worldview about the world arround us, regardless their own religious faiths (or none), local cultures, "ethnic" origins, gender and EVEN football prefferences. 
They also ussually support people´s rights and freedom. And they are rarelly have any sympathy or even tolerate "natural" prejudices, "common sense" discrimination, self validated authority and other nonsense.
Not this alone, but this gives me some hope about our species.


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Once again, I appologize for my poor English (not my first language)


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Diana7 said:


> It's been a long time since that has happened in the west.


What are you calling a long time? I saw it happen during my career.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

WOW I did not expect to get these many replies, this whole thread really went off into left, er… right field lol.

Husband not offended by being called conservative asshole, it’s a shame it does come with the territory. No hurt feelings here. Yes I did admit I should have asked him first & I admit to “red pilling” if you will. Reading “blackout” by Candace Owens right now. We’re also _gasp_ not fully white, so that makes all this socio-political nonsense even more fun! Ugh. 2020 was a *****.

Like I said, life’s too short to fight about flags. Wasn’t advertising my sexual preferences “I like p*ssy/d*ck” lol, just showing support.

As concluded days ago, I’ll just wear my rainbow watch band this month & be grateful for the fact that I can live pretty damn free in 2021, identities on my sleeve or not.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

My boyfriend flies the confederate battle flag. It's just a symbol he grew up with. He is east band Cherokee. 

Im not bothered by symbols. The pride flag is just another symbol. But, when i see it, i know that i don't have to hide around the person displaying it. 

Several people here have voiced their irritation with having it "rubbed in their face". They don't want to see the symbols. 

Those of us who have the guts to display them aren't doing it for their sake. We are doing it despite them. We do it for the people like us. So that others know that we are safe to be around.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> What are you calling a long time? I saw it happen during my career.


decades.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

As'laDain said:


> My boyfriend flies the confederate battle flag. It's just a symbol he grew up with. He is east band Cherokee.
> 
> Im not bothered by symbols. The pride flag is just another symbol. But, when i see it, i know that i don't have to hide around the person displaying it.
> 
> ...


As I see it people are free to live as they like but why do they feel the need to display it to everyone? I am straight but I am not going to have a flag telling everyone that.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> As I see it people are free to live as they like but why do they feel the need to display it to everyone? I am straight but I am not going to have a flag telling everyone that.


Yet I bet you wear a cross around your neck displaying your religion. Who cares?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Torninhalf said:


> Yet I bet you wear a cross around your neck displaying your religion. Who cares?


Let's not have another religious discussion - they're so tiring.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> Let's not have another religious discussion - they're so tiring.


It’s relative. I have a neighbor that has a sign that says Jesus saves. No different my sign that says Hate has no home here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Yet I bet you wear a cross around your neck displaying your religion. Who cares?


No I don't.
We are talking about people's sexuality here, why does everyone have to know? 
If people are happy and content with their sexuality I don't understand why they need to do this.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> No I don't.


Well if you did you would not want someone asking why you need to advertise.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> No I don't.





Torninhalf said:


> It’s relative. I have a neighbor that has a sign that says Jesus saves. No different my sign that says Hate has no home here.


Why do you feel you need to tell everyone that hate has home here, just act it out in your life and people won't need to be told.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Torninhalf said:


> Well if you did you would not want someone asking why you need to advertise.


Do you advertise when you wear a small piece of jewellery? if someone were to ask I would be happy to tell them.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Why do you feel you need to tell everyone that hate has home here, just act it out in your life and people won't need to be told.


Why does my neighbor need to advertise her religious beliefs? The beauty of living in America eh? 😁


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Do you advertise when you wear a small piece of jewellery? if someone were to ask I would be happy to tell them.


Actually I wear a necklace with 2 moon pictures. Each represent the moon on the night my children were born and people ask all the time. 😉


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

Some choices have (at least) two dimmensions, the personal one, the social one.
The first may or not be only private, while no one forces us to make a shameful secret of it. 
When it happens and there is oppression or pressure against a significative social group, the personal becomes a matter of identity, of belonging to what is contested and shouldn´t.
This may become extended to people that don´t necessary share same choice as individuals but stand for what is fair for others. So they support such freedom to choose, making it public as solidarity.
Not a few of human rights that were once unavailable are now with us because of those that standed for justice.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

There is maybe another angle on “advertising” your religion in that it may actually be part of the religion. For example many Christian faiths embrace evangelism as part of their faith and in that case they’re obligated to advertise.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

ccpowerslave said:


> There is maybe another angle on “advertising” your religion in that it may actually be part of the religion. For example many Christian faiths embrace evangelism as part of their faith and in that case they’re obligated to advertise.


Well, if they feel compelled to shove it down my throat, they can get over it when they see a pride flag.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> Actually I wear a necklace with 2 moon pictures. Each represent the moon on the night my children were born and people ask all the time. 😉


Isn’t the same side of the moon always facing the earth?


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I asked my cousin about this thread, since being gay he has a dog in the fight. He gave me an "oh, please!" and summed it up briefly. He and his partner don't march, wave flags, advertise their sexual preference, or any other thing. He was basically, MYOB.

Want to fly a flag? Fine. Want to march? Fine. Want to get in my face about your sexual persuasion? Not fine. Don't bother me with what you do with whomever. I find it downright ludicrous when Kirsten Sinema ran for U.S. Senate and people were talking about how she was the first bisexual elected to the Senate. Meh. The first bisexual who was open about it IMO. And what immediately came to mind for me was, "So what?" I want to know a politician's platform to determine if they're up to the task. Sexuality has nothing to do with how I cast my vote.

JMO.


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## JAHnonymous (Jun 17, 2021)

Prodigal said:


> I asked my cousin about this thread, since being gay he has a dog in the fight. He gave me an "oh, please!" and summed it up briefly. He and his partner don't march, wave flags, advertise their sexual preference, or any other thing. He was basically, MYOB.
> 
> Want to fly a flag? Fine. Want to march? Fine. Want to get in my face about your sexual persuasion? Not fine. Don't bother me with what you do with whomever. I find it downright lubricous when Kirsten Sinema ran for U.S. Senate and people were talking about how she was the first bisexual elected to the Senate. Meh. The first bisexual who was open about it IMO. And what immediately came to mind for me was, "So what?" I want to know a politician's platform to determine if they're up to the task. Sexuality has nothing to do with how I cast my vote.
> 
> JMO.


Yeah very true… good thing I’m not running for office. I was more so asking if it was offensive to fly a pride flag on the same pole as an American one.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

JAHnonymous said:


> Yeah very true… good thing I’m not running for office. I was more so asking if it was offensive to fly a pride flag on the same pole as an American one.


Personally, i don't find it offensive. But, I'm also one of those service members that doesn't ever want to see flag burning become a criminal offense... I want people to have the right to free speech. Even if it's offensive to me. 

For anyone who is a stickler about it, there is an actual flag code... If you are flying the US flag above another flag and they are not touching, then... As far as I can tell, it doesn't violate code. 









4 U.S. Code § 8 - Respect for flag







www.law.cornell.edu


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

JAHnonymous said:


> Yeah very true… good thing I’m not running for office. I was more so asking if it was offensive to fly a pride flag on the same pole as an American one.


And I want to apologize for getting on my soap box and committing a thread jack. My husband was an army officer. He was quite tolerant of other people. I, too, take a laissez-faire stance on how people wish to express themselves. I say raise your flag. You are not harming anyone else by doing so. It's your right to express yourself. My husband spent most of his life - often in war zones - serving in order to folks to have the freedom of expression.

I say go for it.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

Prodigal said:


> And I want to apologize for getting on my soap box and committing a thread jack. My husband was an army officer. He was quite tolerant of other people. I, too, take a laissez-faire stance on how people wish to express themselves. I say raise your flag. You are not harming anyone else by doing so. It's your right to express yourself. My husband spent most of his life - often in war zones - serving in order to folks to have the freedom of expression.
> 
> I say go for it.


I ****ing love this. 

Thank you.

If only more people felt this way...


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## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

As'laDain said:


> If you are flying the US flag above another flag and they are not touching, then... As far as I can tell, it doesn't violate code.


Almost the same rules in my country about our flag.


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