# No Physical Affection



## azwildcat (Dec 4, 2012)

My wife recently accused me of having an emotional affair with a long time mutual female friend. While the relationship I was having with our mutual friend wasn't a full blown emotional Affair, it did have elements of one and I completely understand my wife's accusation. 
About 2 months ago I asked my wife if I could have a beer with our mutual female friend and she got extremely uspet and this is when it came to a head. My wife was set to divorce me, but was convinced by one of her friends to give her decision at least two weeks in order to make sure she wasn't making it out of anger. 
During that two week period I broke of my friendship with the other woman, started individual counseling, and worked extremely hard to understand her concerns. We have been together for 12 years and I admit for most of them I wasn't available to her emotionally and was extremely bad at communication. There were a number of events in our relationship that required a lot more emotional suppert than I was able to give. I grew up in a family that didn't provide this type of support and I didn't realize that it severly affected me until recently when I started my individual counseling. During the last two months I have been working extremely hard to share my emotions with my wife and have completely opened up with communication to her. I love my wife more than anything and I really want this to work and am so happy to be able to be talking with her about these feelings I have now.
I have always been a person to show my love through physical affection, whether its is a small brush across the shoulders, hug, kiss, back rubs, and sexual activity. During the last two months while my wife and I have been working on re-building our relationship, except for just recently, she hasn't been willing to give me the physical affection and hasn't allowed me to give her physical affection. Recently she has been holding my hand and even gave me a kiss the other night. When this happened it made me extremely happy and I think she got a little worried about my reaction. She claims that I am placing too much importance on the physical affection and she is not willing to move forward until I can understand that the physical affection does not mean that we are "okay". She feels like if we have any type of physical affection that I will revert back to my old ways and stop working to have a healthy realtionship. She also still holds a number of issues that she is trying to sort out with our past. I didn't make the first moves when she held my hand and gave me a kiss, but I did act on them. When she kissed me I moved forward and gave her a backrub that night because it felt natural and also felt like it was welcome. Other than that I haven't done anything else to try to get her to be physical. She tells me that she feels extremely pressured by me for physical affection and the fact that I place so much value on it, it pushes her away.
I am worried because I am such a physically affectionate person. I am not looking to have sex with her right now, but I just want to be able to hold her, kiss her, and caress her. I am not sure I will ever be able to understand her side of this and don't know what to do. This is a HUGE part of my relationhsip with her and I need to know if she will ever be able to get past this and let the physical side return to normal.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Ok.... It sounds as though she is extremely hurt by your affair. As a loving wife I understand her hurt. I really do.

But there has to be a time limit to this if she wants to stay married to you and heal your marriage. Did you both have the IC?

The cuddles and affection are a big part of the healing and rebuilding of connection between the two of you.

Does she acknowledge that you need love/affection/sex in the marriage?
Before your EA what was your affection/sex like?

Personally I would really be pushing for non-sexual contact and KEEP them non sexual. But I'm certain once you bring this back the rest will follow.

And under no circumstances contact the OW... ever. It would mean death to your marriage for sure.


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## azwildcat (Dec 4, 2012)

Thanks WAIWERA,
She is extremely hurt the the EA. We have been working through all of our past issues, including the affair, for the last two months. I have told her how important physical affection is to me and how I feel like we will be able to have more success if we add it in to the re-building process....Once again I am not pushing for sex, but just any kind of touch.
Before the EA our affection was constant and we had sex regularly. She wasn't satysfied by the sex on a regular basis but she welcomed the other physical affection (Hugs, kiss, cuddling, etc)
I have been going to the IC at least once a week and she goes every three weeks. Her's recently informed her that it was probably time for us to go to MC, but she stated that isn't quite ready for that yet. Mine also told me that we are ready for the counseling but that I should wait until after the Holidays.

Everytime I ask about physical affection she gets very defensive and basically takes a step back. This is when she tells me that she feels pressured and isn't willing to go farther until this pressure goes away. I have stopped asking her for affection and this is what resulted in her holding my hand and giving me a kiss, but when I got excited about that she pulled away again. I have decided to stop asking her for anything, but don;t know how I shold re act when something happens.

Under no circumstance will I EVER contact the OW again. She was a great friend for both of us, but I value my relationship WAY more than that friendship. Had I realized what was going on between me and the OW and that it resembled an emotional affair, I would have stopped it a looooonnng time ago.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

In your wifes position here. Trying to save my relationship, and has its ups and downs. He's started paying more attention to me, but just can't bring myself to care. Ex cheated on me with his female friend so was incredibly incredibly wary of other females. When my current became close with a female friend, called her his best friend, I closed off emotionally. 

Men and women as just friends? Only if the girls a complete troll. Sounds like your wife knows this without having to be told. Previous experience?

We're trying to work through us, but honestly, the fact that he could even crush on another girl is a betrayal to me - because in my heart, there's only room for one, and if I don't get the same courtesy, BYE BYE!

Oh yeah.. 7 years together. 2 kids.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Kipani, I'm curious... how long are you planning to punish him with your lack of affection? I'm not trying to be snarky here, I just want to understand what you gain by withholding yourself from him when he's obviously trying.

Maybe the OP can get a better understanding of his wife's response to him trying too by your answer.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I think she is afraid that any physical affection will be interpreted as an invitation for sex, and at this point, that is off the table. I agree with you that it needs to be part of your healing process together if you two were very affectionate before, but you need to do this at her pace. If she initiates the contact, let her know its appreciated but be subtle, she is probably easily overwhelmed right now.


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## 45188 (Sep 13, 2012)

Hmm.. lasted a couple of months, with a lot of trying on his part and me being cold and snappy. He'd bring me stuff he knew I'd like, it was like the beginning again.. i began to feel special, something would set me off and I'd get angry and cold for days to weeks. Hell even the starting to feel safe part again set me off.

Caught him with porn, felt totally inadequate and closed off even more. Last night I told him I trusted him as far as I could throw him. He told me he felt like a complete idiot, and he would have never even become friends with her if he knew the whole story with my ex. (I told him the story, apparently it just clicked last night) 

That he didn't blame me for feeling the way I did, but to remember he's not the same person. 

Right now I'm really on the fences to run for the hills, but at the same time I love him, so I guess I'm trying to distance myself while he's trying to bring me back. His patience on the matter is helping immensely.

The thing to avoid is the triggers. Atm your wife feels really unspecial, especially since you probably gave the other ***** more attention than her. Couples that stay together have fun together. In my case, I tried to spend time with mine all the time, but he'd blow me off for the OW.

Sex normally for us is every day or every other day btw.. when we're normal lol


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

azwildcat,

Thought I'd mention the book, The Five Love Languages by Chapman if you haven't already heard of it. This might help you both--you may want to read it initially, and then see if your wife will read it...this may give her an outside take on the importance physical intimacy has for you and may give you some insight as to what she needs to feel love, if it differs from what you need.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

azwildcat - please can I suggest that you stop saying the EA 'resembled an affair' or had 'elements of an affair'. It's insulting to your wife and what shes going through.

If your here, at IC, struggling to save your damaged marriage...it was a EA...it's just a matter of degrees.

Also if your saying any of this around your wife...she may well think you are full of sh!t... down playing it, rug sweeping. I know it's making me doubt your sincerity.

As far as the affection... you are the one that broke the trust. You are going to have to move forward at her pace.
Just be as loving and open as you can be. Look her in the eye. Make her feel special and cherished everyday. Hold her hand. Just don't push it. 

Date her and woo her. You need to win her back. Make sure she knows she's #1 in your life.

I really hope you can get your relationship back because it sounds like you had a great marriage before.

Just a really sad situation. 

All the best.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

azwildcat said:


> During the last two months while my wife and I have been working on re-building our relationship, except for just recently, she hasn't been willing to give me the physical affection and hasn't allowed me to give her physical affection. Recently she has been holding my hand and even gave me a kiss the other night. When this happened it made me extremely happy and I think she got a little worried about my reaction. She claims that I am placing too much importance on the physical affection and she is not willing to move forward until I can understand that the physical affection does not mean that we are "okay". She feels like if we have any type of physical affection that I will revert back to my old ways and stop working to have a healthy realtionship. She also still holds a number of issues that she is trying to sort out with our past. I didn't make the first moves when she held my hand and gave me a kiss, but I did act on them. When she kissed me I moved forward and gave her a backrub that night because it felt natural and also felt like it was welcome. Other than that I haven't done anything else to try to get her to be physical. She tells me that she feels extremely pressured by me for physical affection and the fact that I place so much value on it, it pushes her away.
> 
> I just want to be able to hold her, kiss her, and caress her. I am not sure I will ever be able to understand her side of this and don't know what to do.


This is quite the complicated dance you two have going on and it would certainly be in your best interest to try to understand her side as best you can.

That said, my humble suggestion is to ask nicely, lovingly and respectfully for exactly what you want. "May I hold your hand for a minute?", "Would it be OK to kiss your hand?","Do you think I could give you a short kiss?". If she says no, respectfully say "OK" and let it go at that. But don't give up completely and especially don't get nasty or hurt. Just be sure to ask again later when you feel like it again. When you can do this without any emotional reaction on your part, including the getting turned down part, a big portion of your wife's motivation will be gone. Ultimately, you will persevere or she will leave.

My wife went through something like this for a while in a mostly self-created drama she starred in but hurt is hurt. Eventually, we were watching one of those dating shows on tv and a really catty woman on the show was doing this to a mostly sincere guy that was trying to win her affection. When my wife saw how unloving this woman's behavior looked on tv , she saw herself and came back to her senses. Something similar will happen to you.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

It's just showing how different men and women are on an emotional level. We (as women) don't offer affection when we've been betrayed emotionally, and alternatively men need affection to be emotionally connected to us. It seems we are doing ourselves in with this kind of thinking. We want our husbands love, then reject it when he gives it.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Az, I'm in the same situation as you right now. Except what got me here is not paying enough attention to her requests, basically being dismissive and making her feel like a nobody. We've been in counseling for months. She still will not give me any physical affection. Her and our counselor keep stating that she needs to heal on her own before allowing me back in. It all honestly makes no sense to me, but I'm not a therapist.

I will tell you that she has said on many occasions that me keeping asking for it, or asking when will she take down the wall just delays her whole healing process. It doesn't seem right to me, and probably to you as well, that we are now being required to give our wives the emotional love in the ways that they want it, but they don't have to reciprocate and we should be fine with it. I told her it feels like she has conditional love for me, not unconditional, and she stated that wasn't true, she just needs time to heal.

The funny part (well, none of this is funny), but one of the things she was complaining about was the lack of physical touch not tied to sex. I'm wanting to give it to her, and she doesn't want it. 

Hopefully you two will figure out your problems and your wife will heal quicker than mine.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *TryingandFrustrated said*: I told her it feels like she has conditional love for me, not unconditional, and she stated that wasn't true, she just needs time to heal


Of course her love is conditional, if it wasn't she would freely give it.

I think society has romanticized those states of being so much that it's considered a negative if you DON'T love unconditional and admit to it. The truth is, it's not wrong to conditionally love. We're human beings. When we get hurt we want to hurt back or withdraw our love... it's completely a natural response and shouldn't be considered a flaw not worthy of empathy. 

It's like the whole soul mate ideology. It's fluff to sell movies and hallmark cards IMO.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> I will tell you that she has said on many occasions that me keeping asking for it, or asking when will she take down the wall just delays her whole healing process.


Pay careful attention here, that these are two distinctly different questions. Asking when is silly, because how should she know? But asking directly in a loving, caring, respectful fashion should not be a foul. So how does this work exactly, does she count up the number of times you ask and add that number of days to the length of time needed for healing? If she knows that asking questions will make things take longer then she must have some idea how long without? Just wondering. But any time we ask for anything, we should always be respectful and accept without flinching whatever answer we receive.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

A Bit Much said:


> The truth is, it's not wrong to conditionally love. We're human beings. When we get hurt we want to hurt back or withdraw our love... it's completely a natural response and shouldn't be considered a flaw not worthy of empathy.


I hear you. The problem is that she claims she isn't doing it to hurt back, or get even. I've just got to trust her on this. She says that her withdrawing love is so she can spend all of her work on healing herself before getting back to our relationship. To me this seems counterproductive, but maybe there is some merit in her thinking.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Pay careful attention here, that these are two distinctly different questions. Asking when is silly, because how should she know? But asking directly in a loving, caring, respectful fashion should not be a foul. So how does this work exactly, does she count up the number of times you ask and add that number of days to the length of time needed for healing? If she knows that asking questions will make things take longer then she must have some idea how long without? Just wondering. But any time we ask for anything, we should always be respectful and accept without flinching whatever answer we receive.


I agree, flat out asking when is silly. I guess it comes up in conversation from time to time when we are discussing things and I tell her I'm trying to be patient with her, but I just don't understand why she can't show some physical attention, other than holding hands or letting me kiss her goodnight/goodbye. No, she doesn't count the number of times I ask or it comes up :lol: , she just says "all will be better in time. It took a while to get us where we wound up, but it won't take us that long to get better."

I actually haven't pushed the subject lately (maybe the past month) and she seems to not be as bitter toward me, but she still has her wall up. I don't even ask her for any physical attention anymore. I'll offer up a backrub, which she always turns down.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

You only get unconditional love before you cheat!
You will never have that again.
Your wife is afraid. She is protecting her broken heart. It can take a very long time to heal. 
You just need to be patient with her!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Just to throw another thought into the conversation.... Healing can't take forever. You screwed up...you admit it...you make sure you do everything you can to make up for it...you promise never to let anything even close happen again...now you chill and giver her time. There does come a point however, when she needs to be healed.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

I just wanted to point out, az, (and it may even be a side note but not an unimportant one) that if she was never satisfied by sex with you before, meaning climaxing I'm assuming, she may not be in a hurry to get back to it. That sounds like it may be a different issue in the marriage but somewhat related. You guys might want to work on that if you make it past this issue.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Shoto1984 said:


> Just to throw another thought into the conversation.... Healing can't take forever. You screwed up...you admit it...you make sure you do everything you can to make up for it...you promise never to let anything even close happen again...now you chill and giver her time. There does come a point however, when she needs to be healed.


I agree with you. It is the length of time that some (myself included) have an issue with. I know there is no set time frame for healing. I think my wife thinks if she lowers the wall, then we will go back to how we (I) was before, not believing that I have changed and don't want the crappy relationship we had for a few years previous to our counseling and work we've been doing for the past 8 months. I think it is hard for someone to be on the other end of "just give me time to heal". It seems like a never ending circle just waiting for the "healing moment". You think she should be there, and she says she is not there yet. And because you think she should be ready, she thinks once again the only reason you want her is for the sex... I feels like a big circle.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> I agree with you. It is the length of time that some (myself included) have an issue with. I know there is no set time frame for healing. I think my wife thinks if she lowers the wall, then we will go back to how we (I) was before, not believing that I have changed and don't want the crappy relationship we had for a few years previous to our counseling and work we've been doing for the past 8 months. I think it is hard for someone to be on the other end of "just give me time to heal". It seems like a never ending circle just waiting for the "healing moment". You think she should be there, and she says she is not there yet. And because you think she should be ready, she thinks once again the only reason you want her is for the sex... I feels like a big circle.


I don't think she appreciates or understands that the 'sex' is the stuff that holds the marriage together. If you don't bond intimately then maintaining closeness is impossible. In your youth you bond this way so that in your old age your intimacy and trust is sustained and deep without it. 

Her therapist should be breaking it down to her. You both need this to stay together.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think she appreciates or understands that the 'sex' is the stuff that holds the marriage together. If you don't bond intimately then maintaining closeness is impossible. In your youth you bond this way so that in your old age your intimacy and trust is sustained and deep without it.
> 
> Her therapist should be breaking it down to her. You both need this to stay together.


Again, though...if he's not making sure she enjoys the sex too...


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

daisygirl 41 said:


> You only get unconditional love before you cheat!
> You will never have that again.
> Your wife is afraid. She is protecting her broken heart. It can take a very long time to heal.
> You just need to be patient with her!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This. 
I see the same selfish, unappreciative and entitled attitude that probably led to your affair. Your need for affection has nothing to do with reconnecting. That's BS and rationalizes your continued selfishness. You have not earned her affection. 

The painful friendship with the OW lasted how long? How many times did your wife express her misgivings? How many times did you dismiss her concerns to peruse your selfish agenda?

You continued a "friendship" that you knew your loving affectionate, sexual wife of 12 years found troublesome? And you want her to be affectionate so that you can connect??? Let's get this strait. What you did was massive and you still don't get it.

Your relationship will never be what it once was. She is not likely to be so open and trusting of you. You have not earned her trust or her affection or her sexual attentions. You had it all and treated it carelessly. 

If you want to save your marriage, be the man she needs you to be. Stop worrying about what you can get out of her. 

It is up to you to show her how wrong you were and how much you value her now. I don't think you are there and she knows it. 

You don't seem to realize that you have lost her and you need to work long and hard to get her back. She will have no problem finding a man who appreciates her. You may find it difficult to sustain a relationship if you think that your sexual/affectionate needs are the most important thing in a relationship.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> I actually haven't pushed the subject lately (maybe the past month) and she seems to not be as bitter toward me, but she still has her wall up. I don't even ask her for any physical attention anymore.


This is exactly what I'm trying to counsel against and it falls directly in your court. You just can't not ask if you want to make progress.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> I think my wife thinks if she lowers the wall, then we will go back to how we (I) was before, not believing that I have changed and don't want the crappy relationship we had for a few years previous to our counseling and work we've been doing for the past 8 months. I think it is hard for someone to be on the other end of "just give me time to heal". It seems like a never ending circle just waiting for the "healing moment". You think she should be there, and she says she is not there yet. And because you think she should be ready, she thinks once again the only reason you want her is for the sex... I feels like a big circle.


Trying,

I would humbly advise you to completely avoid guessing what your wife may be thinking. I would also humbly ask that you avoid feeling sorry for yourself and having expectations of some kind of time frame with no basis for those expectations. Whatever time limits you may be looking to impose, they should be for yourself rather than your wife.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> I don't think she appreciates or understands that the 'sex' is the stuff that holds the marriage together. If you don't bond intimately then maintaining closeness is impossible. In your youth you bond this way so that in your old age your intimacy and trust is sustained and deep without it.
> 
> Her therapist should be breaking it down to her. You both need this to stay together.


How is that true? She was having sex with him while he was busy with the OW. What happened to the glue then? She does not appear to want to glue to him at present. 

Why in the world should she have sex with a man she is not sure she wants? He is the one who has to work on her glue which is not sex.

If he does not find out what she needs and give it to her, there will be no glue or marriage.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> How is that true? She was having sex with him while he was busy with the OW. What happened to the glue then? She does not appear to want to glue to him at present.
> 
> Why in the world should she have sex with a man she is not sure she wants? He is the one who has to work on her glue which is not sex.
> 
> If he does not find out what she needs and give it to her there will never be any glue.


The only thing he understands that she needs now is SPACE. That's all she's giving him to understand. If she wants to stay married though TO HIM, this isn't going to work long term. She has to acknowledge that.

No one is saying he doesn't have work to do, and from what he's said here, he's doing the work and assuming responsibility. The disconnect here is that she still wants to be married to him. Ok great. What does that consist of? If she's so unsure about their relationship, then seperate until she can figure it all out. It's cruel IMO to punish a person for their mistake for some undetermined length of time. Let it go and work on reconnecting... not just for HIM but for yourself. She needs it just as much as he does.

ETA: my posts are referring to Trying's situation. I think the OP has more work to do as well, but it's a bit different.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> Why in the world should she have sex with a man she is not sure she wants? He is the one who has to work on her glue which is not sex.
> 
> If he does not find out what she needs and give it to her, there will be no glue or marriage.


She may not need anything. She needs to decide whether or not she wants her man today, no matter what happened yesterday and what may happen tomorrow. The op need to decide how long her will wait for her to decide. Right now, he is allowing "no decision" to be the default. This is probably not sustainable.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

I would agree that she will eventually have to find a way to reconnect physically with her husband if the marriage is to fully heal. My question, though, is when is "eventually"?

They've been trying to R for a whole two months. *Eight weeks.* 

How is her not feeling especially snuggly after so short a time some type of major flaw on her part? Her husband had an affair. He admits their marriage was physically affectionate and that sex was good and regular - before his affair. If he cheated on her during a good marriage, why should she even _begin_ to believe that just a short two months later, he's Mr. Faithful? Maybe, just maybe, she's having a hard time wrapping her head around being all cuddled up with a man who she knows (for an absolute, proven, *fact*) will cheat on her even if their relationship is affectionate, sexual and loving. Perhaps she's trying to reconcile herself to just who it is she's married to and figure out if she even wants a man who will cheat on her. After all, it's only been two months since he gave up OW.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't look at having sex or giving affection to my husband as a reward for good behavior. I need his love and attention as much as he needs it from me.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

In the OP's situation? 2 months? no not long enough.

8 months? like in Trying's situation? more reasonable.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> The only thing he understands that she needs now is SPACE. That's all she's giving him to understand. If she wants to stay married though TO HIM, this isn't going to work long term. She has to acknowledge that.
> 
> No one is saying he doesn't have work to do, and from what he's said here, he's doing the work and assuming responsibility. The disconnect here is that she still wants to be married to him. Ok great. What does that consist of? If she's so unsure about their relationship, then seperate until she can figure it all out. It's cruel IMO to punish a person for their mistake for some undetermined length of time. Let it go and work on reconnecting... not just for HIM but for yourself. She needs it just as much as he does.


If you will read the original post again, she does not appear to be concerned about staying married to him. She wanted to divorce, he is the one who wants to stay married.

You have it a little twisted and murky. Sex does not solve problems. It is not the first thing that needs to fall into place in this recovery. 

It would be, if his needs were the most important aspect of the relationship success. Why does she need to have sex with him to reassure him? 

When or if she ever feels anything for him, the sexual desire will naturally follow. It is not the natural first step and if he pushes it he will not have to worry about a marriage. 

If he cannot wait then he is free to exercise his option to leave. His wife may be relieved that he made the decision.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Catherine I was talking about Tryings situation, not the OP's in my posts. 



> *Catherine602 said:* If you will read the original post again, she does not appear to be concerned about staying married to him. She wanted to divorce, he is the one who wants to stay married.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> In the OP's situation? 2 months? no not long enough.
> 
> 8 months? like in Trying's situation? more reasonable.


You'er right, at some point you have to make a decision or it does become a form of punishment. 

It is difficult not to want to punish but it is more harmful for the punisher. She will remain bitter and stuck. What good is that? She should let him go and work on regaining her equilibrium if she cannot get it with him around. 

I think a therapist should push for a resolution after a reasonable period of time. What the time frame is depends upon how well the transgressor works to restore the trust and how serious the transgression.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

In reference to the OP, I'm with Waiwera mostly. The cuddling and affection is a part of the rebuilding. Sex at this point in time is asking for too much, it hasn't been long enough to go that far... but the hand holding, touching SHOULD be there. All I can say is try to be patient with her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> In reference to the OP, I'm with Waiwera mostly. The cuddling and affection is a part of the rebuilding. Sex at this point in time is asking for too much, it hasn't been long enough to go that far... but the hand holding, touching SHOULD be there. All I can say is try to be patient with her.


I agree it has to come back if this marriage can recover because that is one of his primary needs. But what of her needs? 

She needs to feel appreciated. If he cannot wait and allow the affection come back naturally, then he is thinking of himself and not her. To me, she can interpret that as not valuing what she gave him in abundance before his affair. 

I don't think that holing his hand is the first step to reconnect. He needs to show her that he was wrong to devalue what they had by giving attention to another woman. 

2 months of trying is nothing. If he is so anxious and needy then he heeds to work on seeing more that his own needs. She is the one in pain. 

Holding his hand will not mitigate her pain although it will do a lot for him. He is not the one whose needs are the most important at present.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> *Catherine602:* Holding his hand will not mitigate her pain although it will do a lot for him. He is not the one whose needs are the most important at present.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this comes across to me as a punishment. A stance of 'I'm not going to give you what you want, because I know you want it and you hurt me and I'm not over it yet.' 

Her needs ARE important, but what are they? Affection is IMO for mutual benefit, not just for him. Again, maybe I'm in the minority, but I crave my husband's touch. The last thing I want after being hurt by him is to isolate myself from that. I need it for reassurance that we're going to be okay. That he still wants ME and not someone else. If he's already there doing everything else... cutting off contact, spending time with me, going to MC... what else should I expect him to do for me? I'm not saying that he needs to be hanging off of me but a kiss, a hug, a handholding... that's not asking for too much. Again, this is just my take on it. The healing has to start somewhere, and I just don't believe it can with distance. If that's necessary then physically the couple needs to seperate.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Catherine602 said:


> What the time frame is depends upon how well the transgressor works to restore the trust and how serious the transgression.


Excellent. I think we finally have an answer everyone can work with. And I also think the op has some serious weight to shoulder if he really wants to get what he wants.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> this comes across to me as a punishment. A stance of 'I'm not going to give you what you want, because I know you want it and you hurt me and I'm not over it yet.'


Of course it is. But since the op lead her into it, he's going to have to lead her out of it, whatever that takes


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Of course it is. But since the op lead her into it, he's going to have to lead her out of it, whatever that takes


Actually, for me, it wasn't really a punishment per se. I didn't intend it that way. Rather, I had simply realized that my husband was a stranger, someone I didn't know at all. What little I did know about this alien wearing my husband's face was that he was able, and more than willing, to stab me in the back while smiling into my eyes. I just didn't feel affectionate towards the man who had knowingly, even enthusiastically, hurt me. 

OP's wife probably doesn't trust him, and therefore he may not be someone she feels affection for right now. He needs to prove to her - over time - that he can be trustworthy. By becoming transparent, cutting off all contact with OW for life, and doing whatever other heavy lifting she needs. What he doesn't need to do is push for a resumption of "normal". OP, that won't make this go away, and even if you two start having sex again, she won't be "over it" for a long, long, long time (ever). Be patient, do the work on yourself that needs to be done, and stop pressuring your betrayed wife to hold hands and cuddle with the person who betrayed her. There will be time enough for that when she's a little less guarded and you're less of an obvious threat to her emotional safety. 

If you haven't read them, I strongly recommend _Love Busters _and _His Needs, Her Needs _- both by Willard Harley.


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## Shoto1984 (Apr 11, 2009)

Maybe I'll take some shots on this but.... From reading the post it sounds to me that the offense to the marriage, while significant, might not have been that severe. She's interpreting the events as being an EA, he's agreeing that there were some elements consistent with one. While I'm not ready to let him off the hook, I'm feeling that this should be a bump in the winding road of marriage rather then the cliff that ends it. 2 months...ok....6 months....hmmm....more? well assumng you are doing your part to create an environment for healing, I think at some point she has to decide what she wants. You have no place to tell her this but at some point she is responsible for her own happiness. She (and all of us) have to choose it. For now be patient and keep doing your part.


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> This is exactly what I'm trying to counsel against and it falls directly in your court. You just can't not ask if you want to make progress.





Ten_year_hubby said:


> Trying,
> 
> I would humbly advise you to completely avoid guessing what your wife may be thinking. I would also humbly ask that you avoid feeling sorry for yourself and having expectations of some kind of time frame with no basis for those expectations. Whatever time limits you may be looking to impose, they should be for yourself rather than your wife.


So, reading your response to these 2 quotes, it appears that you are saying still try for physical affection, but don't have any expectations or get frustrated when she pushes me away?

My thoughts are when I try for some, she gets upset and says it makes her feel like she is only a body to me and we get into this drawn out argument about it. I think today our counselor finally told her that she does need to come around and give me some love in the way that I want it since I'm giving her in the way she wants or needs it now. He said love is the one area where the golden rule doesn't necessarily apply, and he went on a short blurb about the 5 love languages (which I read many months ago and agree with).


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

TryingandFrustrated said:


> So, reading your response to these 2 quotes, it appears that you are saying still try for physical affection, but don't have any expectations or get frustrated when she pushes me away?
> 
> My thoughts are when I try for some, she gets upset and says it makes her feel like she is only a body to me and we get into this drawn out argument about it. I think today our counselor finally told her that she does need to come around and give me some love in the way that I want it since I'm giving her in the way she wants or needs it now. He said love is the one area where the golden rule doesn't necessarily apply, and he went on a short blurb about the 5 love languages (which I read many months ago and agree with).


That would sure sound like my advice, but allowing yourself to get into a drawn out argument isn't part of the program. The only thing you should be saying is "OK" and I really don't see how anyone could get into a big argument over that


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## TryingandFrustrated (Nov 7, 2012)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> That would sure sound like my advice, but allowing yourself to get into a drawn out argument isn't part of the program. The only thing you should be saying is "OK" and I really don't see how anyone could get into a big argument over that


I guess I wouldn't call them drawn out arguments, but there is definitely defensiveness on both sides. She sees me as wanting sex or physical attention as only wanting her body and not her for who she is. I try telling her that it isn't true. We've gone without sex for 10 months, of course I want it, who wouldn't? She has worries that if she "gives in" to sex, then things will go back to the way they were. I tell her that it isn't true, I now see where we were, and through 8 months of counseling, something we haven't done before (and I honestly don't want to do again), I see my mistakes and will respect her more because I now see how much that hurt her and don't want that for her or for us.

Thanks for the response. It is just an ugly circle I'm trying to avoid in hopes of her getting over the fear of going back to the way it was. I'm being patient with her I feel, but she says she can feel that I want it, and that bugs her. I don't know...


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

That's almost a year without having sex with the woman you supposedly love. Of course you want her. She doesn't want you. Obviously, and you've ignored my suggestions thus far, you weren't so hot in bed and probably only took care of your own needs only. If you had taken care of her needs, she'd be quick to get back into bed with you. 

Of course, that's just the way I see it and I'm only reading between the lines here. I could never go that long without having sex with my husband.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but this comes across to me as a punishment. A stance of 'I'm not going to give you what you want, because I know you want it and you hurt me and I'm not over it yet.'
> 
> Her needs ARE important, but what are they? Affection is IMO for mutual benefit, not just for him. Again, maybe I'm in the minority, but I crave my husband's touch. The last thing I want after being hurt by him is to isolate myself from that. I need it for reassurance that we're going to be okay. That he still wants ME and not someone else. If he's already there doing everything else... cutting off contact, spending time with me, going to MC... what else should I expect him to do for me? I'm not saying that he needs to be hanging off of me but a kiss, a hug, a handholding... that's not asking for too much. Again, this is just my take on it. The healing has to start somewhere, and I just don't believe it can with distance. If that's necessary then physically the couple needs to seperate.


From her behavior, I reasoned that she was not yet ready to be touched by him. Distance is probably what she needs to get through her pain. 

He is not a prisoner. If he cannot wait until she is ready, he can leave. 

I feel no sympathy for him. His suffering is of his own making. He had it all and he tossed it away like detritus. So his wife is punishing him? 

She was badly punished for being a good and sensual wife. At this point, she is dealing with the wounds he inflicted. 

Why does she need to take care of the needs of a person who hurt her?. She is not a doormat.


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