# Lingerie dilemma



## tsetungmao23

Okay, hi folks. First time visit, first time post. Here is the dilemma. I love lingerie, but my wife always fights to not wear it. I know that women can be sensitive about their bodies. I treat my wife really well and buy her very nice lingerie. She feels that I have a fetish, which I do not. I just feel that my sexual excitement is heightened when she wears these things. I have explained this to her to no avail. 

Any advice?

Thx


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## Bambusa

I'd call it a fetish. 

I personally think sex should be a mutually comfortable thing. If you like something and she doesn't, it's no longer mutually satisfying.

If it's something she doesn't mind every now and again, maybe you need to accept what you do have and build her up to it without pressure.

Women see their bodies differently to their partners in my opinion and if she's not confident then I don't think you should be forcing the issue. Maybe some positive reinforcement about how attractive she is to you in an every day setting to build her confidence might help.


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## TNgirl232

There is also the fact that some of it is just down right uncomfortable and hard to get on....only to have someone take it right back off. As long as she does it sometimes don't push...it will only cause her to dig her heels in more about not doing it.

I've always said lingerie is a gift for men (regardless of who buys it) women would be just as happy in our comfy cotton bras and panties as we are in lace and corsets


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## Deejo

If you keep buying it, the message she is obviously getting is that it isn't actually for her - and she resents it.

You have made it loud and clear what you enjoy, have you asked or delivered on what she enjoys?


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## HappyAtLast

Maybe ask her to pick out what she would like-whether it's lingerie, black stockings, or a skin tight dress that shows off her curves.


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## jessi

yes maybe some kind of comprimise is in order here, must be some items both of you think are sexy........enjoy the process........


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## simpson

I think maybe if you and her pick it out together maybe that would make a difference. I know it does for me. Comfort is important with that sort of stuff. And maybe she could pick out something that does not need to come all the way off in order to continue with the experience...If she is uncomfortable with her body she might like the idea that she gets to keep something on, concealing her a bit.


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## Sun

Fact - Some girls are just cotton girls (/raises her hand). But... there is some serious sexy stuff out there in cotton these days. Check out every girls favorite lingerie store VS and try a new approach and see if she responds. I have seen guys go crazy over some cotton and lace boyshorts and fitted tank. I feel comfortable and some what covered and they think I am sexy. Win, win..


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## PoconoGuy

My wife has been working out for awhile now and is looking better than she has in 15 years. This past weekend we were in a dept type store and strolled past the lingere section. She paused by a display with sheer types. I asked if she would wear something like that. She replied, somewhat sheepishly, "yeah".
Works for me. To VS I go. The tough part is finding one that would fit her personality and just not go for the ****ty look. I do agree that it is as much a present for me


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## tsetungmao23

Thanks for the info folks.... helps alot. Will take a wait and see approach and see what she is comfortable with. Patience they say is a virtue


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## bacala787

try taking her out to buy some with you - see what she likes / disslikes


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## slappy

Perhaps you could let her know that you respect her decision not to wear the stuff you chose but that you love to see her in somthing different. Give her a surprise gift certificate to VIctoria Secret or something different. She will appreciate the thought, and buy somehting that she is comfortable in... She may even go with somehting a little more then she normally would. Good luck


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## Atholk

The big issue is that she isn't terribly into you sexually. I'm pretty sure that if she thought that you were a total sex god she would be eager to gain your attention by slipping into something less comfortable. If for example she's a 7 and you're a 6, you're not going to get lingerie... it's all going to get put away in the Lingerie Vault.

I've read many stories where the husband/boyfriend finds the sercet stash of lingerie she "never wears", but DID wear for previous lovers. (Boy do they get pissed about that.)

Basically the entire refusal to wear lingerie is a fitness / **** test and you are failing it. What's happening is basically no different than if you handed her a dozen roses and she calmly walked over to a shredder and just fed them through the machine, then turned around and blamed you for making her deal with it all. _I don't like this, you make me feel unsexy, you are sick._ The fact that you're trying to express affection and desire for her is completely discounted.

Now if she is going to treat your tokens of love and affection with disgust, you need to ask for them back. I'm pretty sure if you ask for all the lingerie back, she will be upset by that - because she knows that it really means something to you. Just say that you want to be in a relationship with someone that wants to please you sexually and is interested in you. Say that quietly and sadly in a "you win, I give up" tone. It's really not about the lingerie, it's about her interest and lack of respect for you. Then ebay the lingerie and buy some free weights with the money.

Then you figure out what makes her interested in a man, and start making those changes. Get fit, dress better, play with the kids, teeth whitened, flirt a little, do great at work and try and make a little more money.

So as you improve and sexify youself, I think you will find her far more responsive to wearing things to bed. So if she's a 7 and you've gone from 6 to an 8, the Lingerie Vault is going to open and suddenly be something she finds fun.


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## sisters359

> The fact that you're trying to express affection and desire for her is completely discounted.


He's not trying to express affection or desire for her; he's trying to heighten his own sexual pleasure by asking her to wear something HE likes--he even said that. Nothing wrong with that, if she is comfortable with it. She's not. 

If he's the kind of guy who would leave a woman b/c he gets in better shape and thinks she "owes" it to him to do something that makes her uncomfortable, then she's better off without him. I don't think that is his intent, however. Now, if he can get her feeling sexy in that lingerie, that's different. 

It does not hurt, once in a while, to try something new or uncomfortable to please a partner. A constant demand for such will kill attraction.


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## Atholk

Well if she can't heighten his sexual pleasure, who is going to? This is marriage. They agreed to meet each others sexual needs and interests, and shes not. That's a problem.

If she's not willing to do this for him, I don't want to hear any crying from anyone if he decides to go to strip clubs, or starts looking at online porn in the sly. Or throws up a profile on Ashely Madison.

Sexual interests rarely just fade away.


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## Nekko

Look, Atholk...They agreed to highten eachother's sexual pleasure. But if wearing lingerie makes her uncomfy, ****ty, think she's looking bad or intimidtes her for any reason, this will lower her sexual pleasure by far. She's not a toy that he can ask anything out of just because he deserves 'heightened sexual pleasure'. This is why I personally think your reasoning is wrong. 

I personally don't see lingerie as a big deal. I in fact love it. If my husband bought me lingerie on a regular basis i'd be a happy kitten. Up to the point where i'd think that he isn't very attracted to me anymore and he needs to keep dressing me in stuff to be even remotely interested in me. Make sure you're not leaving her this impression. Also make sure that what you're buying is her style. She needs to feel confident in it to enjoy it or it will have the exact opposite effect. Taking her along to actually chose it is also a good idea. Good luck to you.


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## Atholk

Nekko said:


> Look, Atholk...They agreed to highten eachother's sexual pleasure. But if wearing lingerie makes her uncomfy, ****ty, think she's looking bad or intimidtes her for any reason, this will lower her sexual pleasure by far. She's not a toy that he can ask anything out of just because he deserves 'heightened sexual pleasure'. This is why I personally think your reasoning is wrong.


So they agreed to heighten each others sexual pleasure, except she doesn't have to.

Oy.

As I said before, she can do whatever she wants, but I don't want to hear any crying from anyone if he seeks sexual satisfaction outside his marriage. Sexual interests and desires very rarely go away.

I'm really making no defense that what I'm saying isn't kinda ugly and not politcally correct. I'm just telling how it is. The fact that the OP was on here asking about this means he has already thought about getting out of the marriage over this issue.

This isn't just a "I need sex issue", never never never forget that men typically experience LOVE through sex and he feels that she is rejecting him not only sexually, but emotionally as well. After a while the lingerie itself stops being the issue, and her disregard for his feelings and interests, and her clear expression of disinterest in him becomes the issue.


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## sisters359

If it was about love, why would one ask another to do something that makes them uncomfortable? Why not look for some way of spicing up things that makes them both enjoy the experience more?

It's not a very mature response to start a profile somewhere, however. If it's really about feeling "unloved" because someone won't perform sexually to his standard, then of course he should leave. 

The OP has factors to weigh--how important is this to him? Only he can decide. And no one here gets to make the rules about what others can complain about--kind of silly to think one could!


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## Nekko

Atholk said:


> So they agreed to heighten each others sexual pleasure, except she doesn't have ty.


Oh, no, she has to alright. But with something that heightens her sexual pleasure as well, instead of killing it. Where does it say that she's disinterested? Maybe anything else sexual aside from the lingerie issue is ok for them. I didn't see a post about that, so i'm not going to take disinterest into consideration. I'm never, ever, advising indiference, in fact i encourage action, from all people, if they want to keep their marriage together, and giving the best to their spouse. But not to the expense of their own confidence and happiness. 

If i translate what the OP says in simple terms it sounds like this 'my wife doesn't want to wear sexy lingerie whenever i want her to but otherwise we're ok so i'm angry' and i don't really find it a reason to say you're so sexually unsatisfied. 

On the other hand, i don't see why his wife refuses so bad to wear the darn lingerie...when most women love it even if they don't really like their husbands! As far as i am concerned, if they still have sex normally and she still wants sex...there are two main reasons why she'd refuse the lingerie. Either he's been asking for it to the point where she thinks he wants the lingerie more than her (or she thinks he sees her as not attractive without it), or she thinks she looks silly/aweful in it. Either of these reasons will make sex a crap experience for her. No one wants to feel bad when having sex, so normally she puts her needs on top of his and says no to the underwear. So, in this case, her wearing it despite hating it, just to please him, would make her resent he husband after a couple of times of sex. The solution here is to figure out what problem she has with lingerie, and find a solution to go around it, or in a better scenario just explain that her inhibitions and shame are not apropriate. ('you're so beautiful you shouldn't be ashamed of it..blah blah, you men should know how to say this better than me.)

So, several questions to the op:
1. is your wife more traditional, conservative? Anything that would make her feel like it's not appropriate to wear something like that?
2. when you explained how you feel, did you ask her what makes her fight wearing lingerie? does she feel ashamed, ugly? 
3. how's your sex life aside from this issue?


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## Millania007

I wish my hubby bought me lingere! the main reason I do not wear it but 2 times a month is I hardly have any! Actually budgeted some money to buy some lingere this weekend. My hubby loves it too
Have you tried telling her how beautiful she is? boosting her self confidence majorly before giving her some lingere? Have you expressed to her that it would be really nice if she did something nice for you such as wear some of the lingere you got her? 
I dont understand why some women will not wear lingere, especially if their man buys it for them! I would be ecstatic if my hubby got me some lingere, but he is between jobs. ANYWAY I really hope you can have a nice talk with her about this because lingere can be fun
I got fishnets and garders on my list for this weekend lol Good luck, let us all know how it works out.


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## Atholk

Well think of it this way...

If you had a big red Staples "easy" button, and when it was pushed it turned you on, and you gave clear information about this to your spouse, and they refused to push it ever...

...how would you feel?

Then when they tell you off for being obessed with the big red button...

...how would you feel?


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## Nekko

Atholk said:


> Well think of it this way...
> 
> If you had a big red Staples "easy" button, and when it was pushed it turned you on, and you gave clear information about this to your spouse, and they refused to push it ever...
> 
> ...how would you feel?
> 
> Then when they tell you off for being obessed with the big red button...
> 
> ...how would you feel?


I'd feel bad. And yes, you're right...and i don't understand exactly why his wife is so stubborn to refuse something so simple she can do to turn her husband on. In her spot, i'd tend to be greatful. But you have to wonder why she's so damn stubborn to refuse the darn underwear.....it's just panties for god's sake. This is why i think he should really try to talk it over with her. Because there is probably something big that's really bothering her about the whole situation and fueling the whole problem. And i don't think it's her not being interested in her husband otherwise she wouldn't really want sex at all....

Now, i understand that he's angry, but with tact and good conversation, the sooner he finds out what's wrong, the sooner he can stop being angry


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## Atholk

Well as I said in my first post in this thread, she's probably not all that into him. Hence my advice for him to figure out what she finds sexy and just self improve and become more sexy.

She knows that her refusal is hurting him emotionally, and she's seeking to limit his sexual response to her. She's not refusing sex, she's just refusing him exciting sex. It's extremely subtle in the way it cuts a man.

Begging her to wear lingerie and talking things over isn't going to work. That's clearly been tried. Honestly most men just straight up lose these conversations with women as the wife is usually far more verbally skilled than the husband and just out talks him.

Personally I just see the lingerie refusal as a fitness test. He just has to figure out what to do to pass the test.


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## sisters359

God forbid a woman should feel uncomfortable with some requests. It's clearly just b/c she wants to punish her husband. Let's jump to conclusions that it's about her feelings towards him.

Seriously, some women have body image issues--accept it. Maybe she can deal with it, maybe she can't. Maybe she has sensory integration issues, and the feeling of the lingerie is downright painful to her. In other words, maybe it is about HER. 

For those of us not in her shoes, it's easy to think, what's the big deal? It's easy to over analyze the situation and think it's some deep, nefarious plot. Not all women like or are comfortable in lingerie. It can inhibit, rather than enhance, their sexuality. Focusing on that problem first seems the least likely to introduce new problems (pressure for her to meet his needs regardless of her feelings, for example). What's that principle? The simplest answer is usually the right one.


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## Nekko

'She knows that her refusal is hurting him emotionally, and she's seeking to limit his sexual response to her.'

no, she doesn't. in fact, when most of us are bothered, uncomfortable, insecure, we become so self-centered and worried about our own selves, we have no clue how bad it affects our spouses even if they tell us. May the first person who wasn't at least once so self centered and angry that he/she didn't hear anything their spouse said, even though they were angry and in pain, raise their hand.

This is why, during an arguement, each partners yells out what bothers them, and fails to hear the other. And at the end of the arguement, all each of em can remember is just what they personally were bothered about, and how their spouse 'failed to listen'. 

If, like sister says, she's really bothered by lingerie, of course his needs conflict with hers. She might be so annoyed to have to wear it that she isn't even focusing on what he feels/wants etc. This is why 'Focusing on that problem first seems the least likely to introduce new problems'. Anything else will either be ignored or annoy and push her away more. It's like a guy being asked to do the dishes. If you ask once and you're nice, he might just do it, even if he doesn't like it as much. If you're really greatful he'll probably start finding washing dishes ok. But if you ***** about how he never washes dishes, he'll definately hate you and avoid the activity. How is the lingerie situation any different?


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## Atholk

If you read my first post in this thread, I'm fairly clear that he shouldn't focus on the lingerie as an issue. Simply improve his overall sexiness to her.

Wives simply do not relate to husbands logically as much as they think they do. Sexual attraction is not a logical choice, it is a response to stimuli. Often logic is used after the fact to justify that level of attraction. What I'm saying is...

She's not into him = "lingerie makes me feel bad, you are mean for asking me to wear it"
She's into him = "I feel so sexy in this lingerie"

The cases where a wife does very limited sexual expression with her husband, but gets very kinky et al with a lover are quite common. Often the husband is shocked and destroyed to discover that the things he has begged for and never gotten, she has happily done for her lovers.


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## TNgirl232

Atholk said:


> This is marriage. They agreed to meet each others sexual needs and interests, and shes not.


Dang which vows did you say....mine had stuff about richer and poorer and better or worse but nothing about meeting my partners sexual needs/interests. Does that mean if he wants to have a threesome (because he's sexually interested in that) she should? How about a sex swing in the bedroom? Come on! Saying it like that means no one can ever say no to something they find uncomfortable or not to their taste.

From his first post - it seems she does wear it - just not as often as he would like. I'd say that this is a compromise on her part. She doesn't shove it all in a drawer and wear the ratty t-shirt to bed every night - but she also doesn't dress like Fredricks of Hollywood every night either. 

And as always I see polarized views (for the most part) - Men: she should just shut up and wear it because it turns her man on - which she seems obligated to do regardless of her feelings. Women: Leave her alone. She should get to chose what she wears and maybe there are legitimate reasons behind her not wanting to wear it. Men are from Mars, women are from venus I guess


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## michzz

If shes oppositional and stubborn about lingerie, then you are going about it all wrong.

Start bringing her gifts of huge granny panties. Tell her how "hot" it makes you when she wears 'em.

She's be wearing a thong in no time.


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## Atholk

TNgirl232 said:


> Dang which vows did you say....mine had stuff about richer and poorer and better or worse but nothing about meeting my partners sexual needs/interests. Does that mean if he wants to have a threesome (because he's sexually interested in that) she should? How about a sex swing in the bedroom? Come on! Saying it like that means no one can ever say no to something they find uncomfortable or not to their taste.


Oh you can always say no. Just understand the risks that sexual interests rarely just "go away" and the denied partner may go outside the relationship. I'm not saying that is right, just a possible outcome.

My view on "the vows" is posted at my blog in this post... Dershowitz and Feinstein and the Legally Binding Threesome


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## TNgirl232

So what your saying is that if I don't give in to every sexual demand of my partner then I should be prepared to have them go out and find someone else and I should blame myself because I have opinions and likes and dislikes? I'm sorry - that is just a crazy view. If I am giving my husband sex that we can* both agree on* (regardless if I have a deep dark fantasy to bring in the farm animals and he just isn't going to do that) then there is no reason or excuse for him to step outside the marriage. If I have cut him off completely then he should divorce my butt and move on. But do NOT get out here and say that her not wanting to wear lingerie every day of the week (or insert other sexual fantasy here) justifies him going out and having an affair. Its just ludicrous. Because I guarantee you if he wasn't doing the dishes the way she wanted when she wanted you wouldn't say it was ok for her to go out and have an affair.


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## Atholk

TNgirl232 said:


> So what your saying is that if I don't give in to every sexual demand of my partner then I should be prepared to have them go out and find someone else and I should blame myself because I have opinions and likes and dislikes? I'm sorry - that is just a crazy view.


You are implying that I said there was a direct casual relationship, when I have always been clear that it was simply an influence in the possiblity of such behavior.

That being said, in general yes - deny your partner enough of the sort of sex they are interested in, and yes the likeihood of them straying increases. I believe that is just common sense.

I realize that my viewpoint and insistence of being sexually satisfied makes me an a$$hole. But I am a very happily sexed a$$hole with a very happily sexed wife.


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## Nekko

Atholk said:


> Wives simply do not relate to husbands logically as much as they think they do. Sexual attraction is not a logical choice, it is a response to stimuli. Often logic is used after the fact to justify that level of attraction. What I'm saying is...


Yes, you're right, sexual attraction isn't a choice for any of us. And i can understand his point of view when he asks for it. In his opinion, he's making both his and her life, and their sex life together much better, for basically not much effort (just a pair of panties). 


> She's not into him = "lingerie makes me feel bad, you are mean for asking me to wear it"
> She's into him = "I feel so sexy in this lingerie"


But this...is slightly wrong. Me being into my husband, if i think i look like crap in lingerie (ex: stretchmarks, i don't have em but can imagine, or extra weight, don't have that either but i freaked when i gained even a remote amount of fat over winter) i will feel awkward/ashamed to wear it in front of him. There are women who won't have sex because they think their hair looks bad that day (seriously). Women are known for the huuuuge amount of insecurity/inhibition and self consciousness when it comes to how they look in relation to sex. So i can understand her point of view as well (if this is the way she thinks...and by the way it sounds, this should be the closest to what issues she has). There's a chance she's not that into him, and your advice is great for that. In fact, making himself more attractive can't hurt at all, so he should go for it. 



> The cases where a wife does very limited sexual expression with her husband, but gets very kinky et al with a lover are quite common. Often the husband is shocked and destroyed to discover that the things he has begged for and never gotten, she has happily done for her lovers.


I dunno about this but lemme explain how i personally think about this as a woman and how my mind works. I love my husband, and respect him and care about what opinion he has of me. This makes it highly tough on me to engage in what i consider ****ty behavior around him (or what i know he'd consider that, by hearing him talk about other women for example). This makes me hold back a lot, sometimes, from what i'd personally want to do to him. I'm also slightly embarrased of doing certain things because i might not be doing em as well as a porn star for example (rationally this is stupid, but it does have an effect on how free i feel in bed). If i were ever in my life to get a lover, of course i'd shag his brains out. Because i'd see him as a human dildo. Wouldn't care about how he sees me....i'd just have him for my own pleasure. hence there'd be no inhibitions because there would be no love/respect. I dunno if this makes sense .


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## Atholk

Nekko said:


> But this...is slightly wrong. Me being into my husband, if i think i look like crap in lingerie (ex: stretchmarks, i don't have em but can imagine, or extra weight, don't have that either but i freaked when i gained even a remote amount of fat over winter)


Correctly purchased lingerie covers up stretchmarks and extra flab.




Nekko said:


> I dunno about this but lemme explain how i personally think about this as a woman and how my mind works.


lol I really don't think either men or women think about sex logically in the heat of the moment.




Nekko said:


> I love my husband, and respect him and care about what opinion he has of me. This makes it highly tough on me to engage in what i consider ****ty behavior around him (or what i know he'd consider that, by hearing him talk about other women for example). This makes me hold back a lot, sometimes, from what i'd personally want to do to him. I'm also slightly embarrased of doing certain things because i might not be doing em as well as a porn star for example (rationally this is stupid, but it does have an effect on how free i feel in bed). If i were ever in my life to get a lover, of course i'd shag his brains out. Because i'd see him as a human dildo. Wouldn't care about how he sees me....i'd just have him for my own pleasure. hence there'd be no inhibitions because there would be no love/respect. I dunno if this makes sense .


I understand this completely. You're basically advancing the intelliectual justification for concealed ovulation. This is why I think a primary task for a husband seeking high quality sex is to unmask the veil over the public "good girl" image the wife may want to project.

That's why dominant displays of sexual insistence are so effective with most women. It overrides the good girl public programming and taps into the secret bad girl within.


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## Nekko

Atholk said:


> Correctly purchased lingerie covers up stretchmarks and extra flab.


Yes, completely agree with ya. Only thing is hubby may be going for what he likes, and wife may be thinking it's not her style. Just guessing, don't take this as a fact. Still waiting for him to come back and give us some more data. 




> lol I really don't think either men or women think about sex logically in the heat of the moment.


Nope, we don't. But can analyze after . And we...feel. And react. Our instincts do that or us. 



> I understand this completely. You're basically advancing the intelliectual justification for concealed ovulation. This is why I think a primary task for a husband seeking high quality sex is to unmask the veil over the public "good girl" image the wife *feels forced to* to project.
> 
> That's why dominant displays of sexual insistence are so effective with most women. It overrides the good girl public programming and taps into the secret bad girl within.


[/QUOTE]

Yes. That's exactly why dominance works. Takes pressure off the woman, and makes her feel very very wanted, makes it be ok for her to be ****ty. It's like funerals...lol. You might be happy and have just eaten a great ice-cream, but you're forced to seem sad because you're offending the crowd. Same with open-ness in sex. If he shows his 'animal' side and acts rough etc...it's easier to feel at peace at showing yours. Once a woman feels like the man is horny and out-of control so to say (hence the animalic instincts in him come out to play) it's easier to take him wanting you as a fact and respond with the same. IF he gently slowly pets you, that's already looking like too much control and too little desire to make him loose the control. This is because i know if i am really really horny, i'm feeling like tearing clothes off both of us. I can't control myself to be gentle and cute. If he can...logically, he's probably not that horny.


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