# How long should a marriage be sexless before considering divorce?



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

As much as I have read on TAM, there never seems to be any consensus about when it would be the appropriate time to endure a sexless marriage before considering divorce. Some folks never give up hope and would go for years indefinitely, while others insist that you should hit the door at the first signs of not being in a mutually loving relationship. 

Regardless of local laws or regulations this is obviously a personal decision one must make if ever faced with this situation. So for those in both stable and unstable situations, where would you draw this line? I think this conversation could be helpful for those on this forum struggling with decisions to keep working to save their marriage, or building the self confidence needed to end it.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

no more than a week. LOL

Too many factors to consider for a serious answer. a year seems reasonable if there's no medical reasons.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't think there's an answer for how long before divorce. Sex is just one reason people stay married. There are many factors which contribute to someone deciding to stay married, and those other factors may extend the marriage even when there is no sex.

But I think it can be discussed about what it means for the future of intimacy in the relationship based on how long it has been sexless. If it's just a month or two, then it doesn't necessarily mean it will never get better. There may be some valid reason, stress, scheduling conflicts, etc. that contribute to it just not happening. But when it stretches for 6 months or so, that indicates a true lack of desire in the relationship. The spark is lost and will be very hard to get back.

As for if that means you should give up, that depends on how the couple approaches the problem. If the HD person has the attitude, "Give me sex!", then it won't get better. If the LD person has the attitude, "I don't care to fix it.", then it won't get better. But if the couple can empathize with each other and come up with a workable compromise, then there's a good chance they can rebuild some level of intimacy.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I think the whole divorce conversation can likely be avoided if the notion that sexlessness is untenable in marriage from its inception as an issue on a party's mind.The thing is, too often this is said, but not REALLY meant.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It doesn't happen overnight. Think boiling the frog...


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

"A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> "A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


The nine months of pregnancy is no obstacle, quite the opposite.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I can assure you that 15 years is way too long. Yes, you heard that right. 15 hears. No wonder I won't leave my new hubby alone haha


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> The nine months of pregnancy is no obstacle, quite the opposite.


Clarify please? Nine months of pregnancy is no obstacle to sex?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> "A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


I had sex with my ex wife pretty much every night up until really close to the birth. 
What, do you get all disgusted with your wife when she's pregnant? Not me. 

I don't "boom" divorce anyone. Come on....


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Fozzy said:


> Clarify please? Nine months of pregnancy is no obstacle to sex?


Yes.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Sure, if you have one of those women that at full term looks like she had too big of a lunch. Others gain close to a hundred pounds during their pregnancies.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes.


I'd say that probably varies by the woman. Hormones become a train-wreck during pregnancy. I know many women have an elevated interest in sex, but many have the opposite reaction. My wife had zero interest while she was pregnant.

ETA: reaction will likely vary wildly between men during pregnancy as well. Lots of opportunity for obstacles.


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

I had this convo with my wife before we married. I told her that unless there is a medical issue, 1 month of no sex and I am out. She replied with, " hmmm...I was thinking like 2 weeks !" LOL I love this woman.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

How long is a piece of string versus how long is that piece of string?

The why ought to be a factor.

If ones partner is going through bereavement following the loss of a close family member or a friend, some latitude ought to be provided. Likewise physical separation through work and or military service should also be afforded some latitude. Then there's illness and or injury which should also get consideration as well.

That said with the above mentioned why's, if such things are going to be ongoing for a year in some situations and multiple years. It is sometimes a kindness to give ones partner/s permission to have sex elsewhere while still remaining married or via offering divorce.

All things considered if all parties are present and capable (outside those other reasons), I think a reasonable maximum time limit for the resolution of such things should be 3-6 months. Beyond that embarking on the process of divorce, or choosing to get sex elsewhere via other means seems reasonable to me.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

personofinterest said:


> I'm not sure what the answer is, but I can assure you that 15 years is way too long. *Yes, you heard that right. 15 hears.* No wonder I won't leave my new hubby alone haha


I'm pretty sure this means the 15th time you hear the same lame excuse / rejection.



Randy Lafever said:


> "A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


I got a lot more sex during pregnancy that I get now.



Randy Lafever said:


> Sure, if you have one of those women that at full term looks like she had too big of a lunch. Others gain close to a hundred pounds during their pregnancies.


This is one I have trouble understanding. The woman who can't have sex because she doesn't feel attractive. 

Personally I'm going to side with the idea that it really depends on the situation. We went 3 weeks between Fathers day and yesterday. My dream life was getting pretty disturbing. But with my SSRI and her long term LD we really were too busy, to get busy.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> "A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


But he said "if there's no medical issues."

Pregnancy and recovery are medical issues.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Mr. Nail said:


> This is one I have trouble understanding. The woman who can't have sex because she doesn't feel attractive.


Indeed. This is one place where it actually behooves to accept the other person's assessment rather than your own.

If dude tells you you're hot, go with it!!!


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

I have voted for a YEAR but really it should be a few months. I put a year on in case he is mentally ill or ill in other ways. If in that year i determine that he is not mentally ill and has no other real problem, then I must initiate divorce. But I also believe that I would not re-marry till my youngest child leaves home or is 18 years old, whichever comes first. I do not believe in stepping young children. I would divorce because of the disrespect he would have shown by denying me sex.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

This whole thing also screams out for an understanding of "sexless."

The official definition quoted here on TAM is <10x/year. 

However some people are fine with 10x/year. Meanwhile, most would find a serious sexual mismatch even with significantly greater frequency than that. For some, 20x/yr or 10x/yr makes no meaningful difference; both are grossly inadequate and they'll want to bolt either way. I mean really, if both are healthy, fit, and attractive, is 1x/week too much to ask? If not delivered is that not grounds for moving on? 

Lotsa' layers to this onion. The question is really much broader than "sexless" but rather a combination of how bad is the mismatch and how long to wait in response to that level of mismatch. Maybe I wait a year before pulling the trigger if it's once a month, maybe two years if it's once a week, or maybe I go directly to the lawyer if it's a three month drought.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Mr. Nail said:


> I got a lot more sex during pregnancy that I get now.
> 
> 
> 
> *This is one I have trouble understanding. The woman who can't have sex because she doesn't feel attractive.*



Pretty sure he wasn't saying no sex with a pregnant woman because she feels unattractive, but rather that he wouldn't have sex with a pregnant woman because she's fat. Not certain, but it seems reasonable given that particular poster's apparent viewpoints expressed on other threads.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Personal said:


> How long is a piece of string versus how long is that piece of string?
> 
> The why ought to be a factor.
> 
> ...


Reasons for a partner being excused also seem completely relative throughout discussions here on TAM and elsewhere:

*Pregnancy:* Some folks become inactive while other become hyperactive
*Loss of a loved one:* Some folks need time alone while others turn to a spouse to help sooth emotional pain by increasing intimacy. 
*Distance:* Some couples really enjoy sharing explicit phone/video communications which makes distance fun and playful while others completely avoid discussing the topic of anything explicitly sexual while apart.
*Medical:* I have read stories of those that find unique solutions to almost any medical situation you can imagine. Particularly if it is a prolonged medical situation lasting more than a few months. 

*My point being is that one person's excuse ≠ to another person's excuse.* The only exception seems to be issues with mental health. If someone is suffering from depression or anxiety, then most people tend to agree that situation requires patience. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

I'd be absolutely thrilled with 10X/year. Hell, we haven't had sex ten times total since at least the beginning of 2011, and neither of us have had any major medical issues to prevent sex. This includes three whole calendar years with no sex, one period of over two years without sex, and one other period of just under two years.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I have to chime in as well, nine months of pregnancy? We kept at it until the 8th month in my daughter's case. My son was a different story, we stopped at four months in as she was placenta previa, and we did not want to cause a problem. AND because my son was caesarean delivery, we were back at it two weeks after she delivered.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I'd be absolutely thrilled with 10X/year. Hell, we haven't had sex ten times total since at least the beginning of 2011, and neither of us have had any major medical issues to prevent sex. This includes three whole calendar years with no sex, one period of over two years without sex, and one other period of just under two years.


Why???


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

MaiChi said:


> Why???


She has no sex drive. IMO she has hang-ups regarding sex (no abuse or anything like similar that I'm aware of). She was married before and has mentioned that her ex wanted sex a lot and she'd give in to him even though she didn't want to (this would have been in her early 30's as opposed to early 50's now). She also doesn't take care of herself - she's overweight and does nothing about it (doesn't eat well and doesn't exercise). Constantly complaining about how tired she is, etc, which IMO is a function of not taking care of herself. 

I don't bother her for sex - since she's always letting me know how tired she is, I figure there's no point in initiating sex.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Where is my choice, "A few weeks?"

I would have gladly taken that choice instead of the one, "A few months!"

Without them either being seriously ill
or going through a problem pregnancy, if my spouse is not "putting out" and still madly in love with me like they were in our engagement days, then let's just say that's going to be one serious dealbreaker!*


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I don't think it's so much about time rather than criteria.

If one person's needs are going unmet and they bring that to their partners attention, seek MC, try to address their partner's attraction, correct turn offs etc and their partner still refuses them and says they no longer want to have sex with them etc etc - then it is time regardless of what the calendar says. 

If you've done everything in your power to address the issues and your partner steadfastly refuses to address your needs, then you are within your right to dissolve the relationship whether it is weeks/months/years.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

This whole thread, rather predictably, focuses strictly on frequency. What's missing is quality.

Is 3x/week starfish sex any better than 1x/month rockin', screamin' monkey sex? I don't think so. 

Some partners will do the minimum possible to keep it together, but they're not really vested beyond offering up their body for someone else to masturbate into/on. IMO this is even more insulting than no sex at all. 

So the question really needs to be "how long should one be willing to put up with inadequate sex (however you measure it: frequency, intensity, enthusiasm, other) before dialing an attorney?"


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This whole thread, rather predictably, focuses strictly on frequency. What's missing is quality.
> 
> Is 3x/week starfish sex any better than 1x/month rockin', screamin' monkey sex? I don't think so.
> 
> ...


Some folks might see 3x/week starfish like a blank and willing canvas on which a masterpiece of lovemaking art can be created. 

For example one can tie up a willing starfish into some rather exciting positions by learning the art of kinbaku or shibari. 

Point being is that the starfish might actually be a reflection of the partner that is unwilling to do much and just wants the other person to make all the effort.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Willing starfish... Sounds strange.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

badsanta said:


> As much as I have read on TAM, there never seems to be any consensus about when it would be the appropriate time to endure a sexless marriage before considering divorce. Some folks never give up hope and would go for years indefinitely, while others insist that you should hit the door at the first signs of not being in a mutually loving relationship.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




About a week for me. 2-3 days without and I start not liking myself. 6-7 days and I begin to intensely dislike anyone else (even more than I already dislike them).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

NobodySpecial said:


> I think the whole divorce conversation can likely be avoided if the notion that sexlessness is untenable in marriage from its inception as an issue on a party's mind.The thing is, too often this is said, but not REALLY meant.



Yep. In second and third trimester, wife turned into a sex crazed animal. Best times. 
First trimester: not so much due to sickness.

I remember hinting at a quickie in doggie style while I was applying the tens machine to ease her contraction pain: I never forget the look of someone actually wanting to murder me.
After birth: yeah, things were tough for a couple of months or so...
And got worse with more kids.
Now that the youngest is 2 and a half things are picking up again.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This whole thread, rather predictably, focuses strictly on frequency. What's missing is quality.
> 
> Is 3x/week starfish sex any better than 1x/month rockin', screamin' monkey sex? I don't think so.
> 
> ...


Starfish is never acceptable. Post menopause (her libido took a nose dive) my wife said she’d do it, but really didn’t want to because it’s not right or fair to anyone. I said thank you.

Inadequate sex or inadequate intimacy? And define “sex”? 

As long as she is freely willing to please (and be pleased) as much as she can at any given time I’m ok. But yeah, there also needs to be some frequency, not always screaming monkey, but something.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I can deal with "I can't." Examples: sickness, surgery, injury, etc.

"I won't" is a different story. And except in ONE case I have read on forums, EVERY one i have read boils down to "I won't."


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I guess it depends on the reason why but I know I couldn’t go months without. so that subject would be coming up sooner rather than later


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Some folks might see 3x/week starfish like a blank and willing canvas on which a masterpiece of lovemaking art can be created.
> 
> For example one can tie up a willing starfish into some rather exciting positions by learning the art of kinbaku or shibari.
> 
> ...


In human terms, those blank canvases are exceedingly rare (among the inherently unenthusiastic). They are more like teflon, to which nothing you do, or can do, will ever stick.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> This whole thread, rather predictably, focuses strictly on frequency. What's missing is quality.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I dunno. To me, frequency is a necessity. For quality: I feel like it is mostly my responsibility.
A woman’s libido is mostly reactive: if you (general you) can’t be bothered to ignite it and provide that initial spark (passion), then it’s on you. I have no expectation for my wife to surprise me with stuff or initiate (even if she does it. I always felt like if I REALLY want to **** her, and show it, either of the two things will happen:

1. It will annoy her and she will find reasons not to go along (because she’s not in the mood).

2. Or she will ‘catch the bug’ and respond and go along for the ‘ride’. And it will become much more than just going along as she becomes increasingly ecstatic.

I feel like unless I radiate enthusiasm, it is not that likely for ‘quality’ to emerge.

That’s why I don’t always know how to respond to threads where men complain about quality or initiation; one thing is when your wife has no interest in sex with you at all and quite another, when you expect her to perform porn star-ish acts, without putting in the hard work.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

CharlieParker said:


> Starfish is never acceptable. Post menopause (her libido took a nose dive) my wife said she’d do it, but really didn’t want to because it’s not right or fair to anyone. I said thank you.
> 
> Inadequate sex or inadequate intimacy? And define “sex”?
> 
> As long as she is freely willing to please *(and be pleased) *as much as she can at any given time I’m ok. But yeah, there also needs to be some frequency, not always screaming monkey, but something.


That's often the toughest nut to crack.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

inmyprime said:


> I dunno. To me, frequency is a necessity. For quality: I feel like it is mostly my responsibility.
> A woman’s libido is mostly reactive: if you (general you) can’t be bothered to ignite it and provide that initial spark (passion), then it’s on you. I have no expectation for my wife to surprise me with stuff or initiate (even if she does it. I always felt like if I REALLY want to **** her, and show it, either of the two things will happen:
> 
> 1. It will annoy her and she will find reasons not to go along (because she’s not in the mood).
> ...


We all have demands for both quality and quantity. Exactly what they are varies from person to person. My main point was that this is not a simple single axis issue; it is much more complex with at least two axes to consider.

And I'm speaking for those who begin by, and continually continue to, "radiate enthusiasm," and yet get little or no response. It should go without saying that if party A isn't playing an active role, he has no grounds to complain that party B isn't showing adequate enthusiasm.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> We all have demands for both quality and quantity. Exactly what they are varies from person to person. My main point was that this is not a simple single axis issue; it is much more complex with at least two axes to consider.
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm speaking for those who begin by, and continually continue to, "radiate enthusiasm," and yet get little or no response. It should go without saying that if party A isn't playing an active role, he has no grounds to complain that party B isn't showing adequate enthusiasm.



Yes, there must be couples where radiating enthusiasm won’t change anything in terms of quality. Then the issue is probably simply sexual incompatibility. For me it’s difficult to imagine a situation where a woman is willing to have sex with you, yet she does it in such a fashion that makes you feel like it’s such a chore for her. 
I think in those circumstances, if it’s likely to occur, my wife will just go for a BJ to make me stop over anal-izing the situation (and it works; i drop it quite quickly).

It’s really amazing how many problems a BJ has solved...
I hate my primitiveness. Whoever designed me, did a quickie on me.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

You "one month" people: how in the hell did you survive from puberty until you lost your virginity? I had my first orgasm 14 years after puberty. It wasn't that difficult to go fourteen years, and yet you say you can't go a month????

I don't know if it is pathetic or amusing.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

ChargingCharlie said:


> I don't bother her for sex - since she's always letting me know how tired she is, I figure there's no point in initiating sex.


Hmmm.



ChargingCharlie said:


> She has no sex drive.


You both have that in common.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

john117 said:


> Willing starfish... Sounds strange.


So you have an unenthusiastic partner that says just do your thing and make it quick while I am a starfish, and the sexually needy partner that refuses this offer insisting that they will wait for the proverbial wild monkey to magically appear.

Meanwhile the skilled lover that is experienced with the notion of responsive desire has no hesitations, because once they catch a starfish they know just how to cook it! With unrelenting and playful confidence...



> are you seriously trying to crawl underneath me? You know I don't want to be on top, and I'm not letting you... what? so now you think you can drag me off the edge of the bed to fall on top of you... go ahead you are going to get hurt you idiot... (skilled lover manages to get starfish on top and says, "now make it quick!")




Badsanta


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

A starfish isn't likely to respond positively regardless of how good the experience is for her. Doing so increases his expectations...


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> You "one month" people: how in the hell did you survive from puberty until you lost your virginity? I had my first orgasm 14 years after puberty. It wasn't that difficult to go fourteen years, and yet you say you can't go a month????
> 
> I don't know if it is pathetic or amusing.


Three things:

1. There's a completely different dynamic between going without what you've never had in the first place and what you've become accustomed to

2. It's not about literally not being able to go without so much as it is being willing to go without something which is a cornerstone of a vibrant, healthy marriage 

3. It's not just about the physical pleasure, but also the togetherness and resulting bonding that is unique to sex in a committed relationship

There's nothing "pathetic" about expecting this as part of a well rounded marriage.

But hey, if depriving yourself makes you feel superior, there's always other self flagellating Luddites you can commune with.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

It is "pathetic" when you are a slave to your animal passions, when you can't use your intellect to repress them for the benefit of yourself and those around you. Like a dog and a leg, all that matters is the gratification.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Randy Lafever said:


> It is "pathetic" when you are a slave to your animal passions, when you can't use your intellect to repress them for the benefit of yourself and those around you. Like a dog and a leg, all that matters is the gratification.


But most folks are looking for, and reasonably expecting more than just easy physical gratification. For most, sex in a committed relationship is so much more.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> But most folks are looking for, and reasonably expecting more than just easy physical gratification. For most, sex in a committed relationship is so much more.


Like what?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Randy Lafever said:


> Like what?




If you don’t know, it probably doesn’t apply to you. Carry on. lol 


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

Elizabeth001 said:


> If you don’t know, it probably doesn’t apply to you. Carry on. lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, I'm trying to figure out why sex is so damned important to the guys on this forum. Like, they think it is a need rather than a want. They genuinely seem to believe that.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> Well, I'm trying to figure out why sex is so damned important to the guys on this forum. Like, they think it is a need rather than a want. They genuinely seem to believe that.


It's not the sex. It's the articles... 

Sex is the ultimate "check engine" light in a marriage, and usually a harbringer of things to come (or not).


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

badsanta said:


> As much as I have read on TAM, there never seems to be any consensus about when it would be the appropriate time to endure a sexless marriage before considering divorce. Some folks never give up hope and would go for years indefinitely, while others insist that you should hit the door at the first signs of not being in a mutually loving relationship.
> 
> Regardless of local laws or regulations this is obviously a personal decision one must make if ever faced with this situation. So for those in both stable and unstable situations, where would you draw this line? I think this conversation could be helpful for those on this forum struggling with decisions to keep working to save their marriage, or building the self confidence needed to end it.
> 
> ...


I would consider divorce after 1 month if there were no mitigating factors.

It would take me longer to actually file and I would pour my every effort into remedying my marriage before pulling the trigger.

It probably wouldn't take more than 3 months to seal our fate if there wasn't a reasonable breakthrough.

There are far too many wonderful and willing women and I am far too randy to go without.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> It is "pathetic" when you are a slave to your animal passions, when you can't use your intellect to repress them for the benefit of yourself and those around you. Like a dog and a leg, all that matters is the gratification.


Very limited in view....

I use my intellect to direct and enhance my animal passions.

Repressing is depressing and extremely boring.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> Well, I'm trying to figure out why sex is so damned important to the guys on this forum. Like, they think it is a need rather than a want. They genuinely seem to believe that.


In my opinion a quality intimate life with a partner is not just about needing or wanting sex, as there is a lot more to it than that. 

Take a platonic relationship that can be very fulfilling between two people and convey a great deal of love. These are two like minded people that can go years without contact and pick right up where they left off upon seeing one another again. In a platonic relationship there is no desire to be physically close to that person. 

In contrast a marital relationship has very different dynamics due to the nature of both physical and emotional attraction. Because opposites attract a marital relationship is forged on one's willingness to accept and love an individual whose personality completes them as a couple. One might spend money freely while the other only tries to save. One might always want to be on the go while the other is desires to stay put and create roots. Individually they would each likely fail or miss out on life. At the heart of this relationship unlike any other is unconditional physical and emotional acceptance (also known as sex) fueled by attraction to be close to one another. Without that the relationship would be like a hurricane loosing an eye, as it would quickly spin apart, become unorganized, and simply vanish. 

So how can one be married to another and constantly endure physical and emotional rejection from their partner? That is not the same as needing sex but perhaps that is just simply what it looks like as a relationship breaks apart.

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Case in point...How many "bait and switch" issues just this year alone on TAM? And just look at Cromer's thread....sexless marriage, same comments made concerning him being too needy. Then low and behold..Tadaa, she's cheated for over 11 years. Got a serious non treatable disease and wanted to hide it from him...


Nope, sex in marriage is the epitome of 2 becoming 1. The bonding that makes us whole and partnered. The love expressed is totally necessary. Anything else is just room mates. We as humans are a sexual being. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's what we do with it that exemplifies it. And sex in marriage is a no-brainer.

When you go without a few months of sex in a marriage. It may not be a deal breaker, but the warning light that John 117 mentioned is now brightly on!


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> ...sex in marriage is the epitome of 2 becoming 1. The bonding that makes us whole and partnered. The love expressed is totally necessary. Anything else is just room mates. We as humans are a sexual being. And there is nothing wrong with that. It's what we do with it that exemplifies it. And sex in marriage is a no-brainer.
> 
> When you go without a few months of sex in a marriage. It may not be a deal breaker, but the warning light that John 117 mentioned is now brightly on!


Well said!


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Nope, sex in marriage is the epitome of 2 becoming 1. The bonding that makes us whole and partnered. The love expressed is totally necessary. Anything else is just room mates.


My wife and I are room mates. I feel it helps to avoid romantic and sexual issues and just focus on the entire reason why marriage exists: to raise the children. She has a different view but she will have to grow up and focus on what is important.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Randy Lafever said:


> My wife and I are room mates. I feel it helps to avoid romantic and sexual issues and just focus on the entire reason why marriage exists: to raise the children. She has a different view but she will have to grow up and focus on what is important.


So, in YOUR world, marriage is ONLY to raise children. And that means what for single parents? And what about husband and wife who cannot have children? They room mates too. 

You may have re-defined marriage to suit YOUR needs. But the consensus is still in favor of a loving partnership where yes....Sex is involved. Ya know, us being animals and all...LOL.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Randy Lafever said:


> My wife and I are room mates. I feel it helps to avoid romantic and sexual issues and just focus on the entire reason why marriage exists: to raise the children. She has a different view but she will have to grow up and focus on what is important.


I hope you realize this is a very unconventional view of marriage and most people do not think this way. It's like the people who think it's fine to have an open marriage. Marriage means many things to many people, but the vast majority see intimacy as one of the foundational properties of marriage. The vast majority of people would not get married if intimacy was not a part of it. 

While I think it's fine for you and your wife to have this sort of marriage, I don't think you should be advocating for others to live that like. Most people would not be content in a platonic marriage, and it is more likely to cause them to breakup. Most couples having sexual issues would have better long-term success by increase sexuality rather than eliminate it. That may not be true for your specific marriage, but for the vast majority of people reading this forum, reducing intimacy will degrade their relationship.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> So, in YOUR world, marriage is ONLY to raise children. And that means what for single parents? And what about husband and wife who cannot have children? They room mates too.


I don't understand why people get married without children. I married my wife to provide a stable home life for our son. I believed that to be in his best interest. I am also a little old-fashioned that way. It was an error in judgement, we should have remained co-habiters instead of spouses, and now I know that, because I don't like her as a person, nor am I attracted to her physically. I would never advise any other couple to marry.

Single parents are like participants in a sack race. They can still cross the finish line, sure, but let's not kid ourselves and deny they are at a disadvantage.

Husband and wife who cannot have children have my sympathies. When they discover this, it is up to them to decide whether to continue with the marriage. I wouldn't want to influence them one way or the other, it isn't my business.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> My wife and I are room mates. I feel it helps to avoid romantic and sexual issues and just focus on the entire reason why marriage exists: to raise the children.


Ummmmm.... you might want to do a little research on how the quality of a marriage has a strong impact on the quality of raising your children:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...1703/why-bad-marriages-are-worse-kids-divorce

https://www.parents.com/parenting/divorce/kids-a-reason-to-stay-married/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/shift-mind/201107/the-wrong-reasons-staying-married

To be fair this article does explore both the positive and negative of this belief: https://www.liveabout.com/reasons-to-stay-together-for-the-sake-of-the-children-1102599

...my point being is that staying married to someone solely for the sake of raising children together will have an impact greater than one may think. Many these days argue that it is actually more harmful than helpful. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

badsanta said:


> ...my point being is that staying married to someone solely for the sake of raising children together will have an impact greater than one may think. Many these days argue that it is actually more harmful than helpful.
> 
> Regards,
> Badsanta


I think that only qualifies if there is strife in the relationship. If neither one expects anything but a "room mate" situation, then it should be fine.

All I need to do is convince her that is what she should expect, and not threaten to divorce me because I never kiss her, or didn't comment on her new hair color, or didn't get her a card for anniversary, or never talk about anything but the children.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> I think that only qualifies if there is strife in the relationship. If neither one expects anything but a "room mate" situation, then it should be fine.
> 
> All I need to do is convince her that is what she should expect, and not threaten to divorce me because I never kiss her, or didn't comment on her new hair color, or didn't get her a card for anniversary, or never talk about anything but the children.


She should read this thread then!


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

badsanta said:


> She should read this thread then!


Do you actually believe that would help her see the error of her ways, or are you being facetious?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Randy Lafever said:


> I don't understand why people get married without children. I married my wife to provide a stable home life for our son. I believed that to be in his best interest. I am also a little old-fashioned that way. It was an error in judgement, we should have remained co-habiters instead of spouses, and now I know that, because I don't like her as a person, nor am I attracted to her physically. I would never advise any other couple to marry.
> 
> Single parents are like participants in a sack race. They can still cross the finish line, sure, but let's not kid ourselves and deny they are at a disadvantage.
> 
> Husband and wife who cannot have children have my sympathies. When they discover this, it is up to them to decide whether to continue with the marriage. I wouldn't want to influence them one way or the other, it isn't my business.


It might help if you could understand that since you have a disorder, you do not think like the rest of the world, rather than assigning the rest of the world your thought patterns. I understand it. My child on the spectrum sort of thinks everyone "should" think like her. But they don't, and she has had to learn to operate within reality rather than her own skewed perspective.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> It might help if you could understand that since you have a disorder, you do not think like the rest of the world, rather than assigning the rest of the world your thought patterns. I understand it. My child on the spectrum sort of thinks everyone "should" think like her. But they don't, and she has had to learn to operate within reality rather than her own skewed perspective.


The insidiousness of the personality disorder is that every part of my brain is working together to convince me. So it's not just one weird thought that the rest of my brain can silence using reason and logic. When one part of my brain says "we should outlaw sex" the rest of my brain goes "oh yeah, think of all the time in the evenings people will have to do housework!"

It's annoying.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Randy Lafever said:


> The insidiousness of the personality disorder is that every part of my brain is working together to convince me. So it's not just one weird thought that the rest of my brain can silence using reason and logic. When one part of my brain says "we should outlaw sex" the rest of my brain goes "oh yeah, think of all the time in the evenings people will have to do housework!"
> 
> It's annoying.


I know. I have had that same kind of conversation with my daughter. It sucks


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> Do you actually believe that would help her see the error of her ways, or are you being facetious?


You should not worry about me or what I believe, only think if it would help you and your wife have a meaningful discussion.... that is all, nothing more, nothing less.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

The whole point of everything I do is to AVOID having meaningful discussions. I've kind of patterned my life around it.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Randy Lafever said:


> You "one month" people: how in the hell did you survive from puberty until you lost your virginity? I had my first orgasm 14 years after puberty. It wasn't that difficult to go fourteen years, and yet you say you can't go a month????
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if it is pathetic or amusing.




When I discovered what an orgasm is I didn’t get out of my room till both of my hands had swollen tendons and the walls/ceiling needed to be repainted. 14 years? Are you serious???


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Randy Lafever said:


> Well, I'm trying to figure out why sex is so damned important to the guys on this forum. Like, they think it is a need rather than a want. They genuinely seem to believe that.




It’s both a need and a want. I need because I want and I want because I need.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

inmyprime said:


> When I discovered what an orgasm is I didn’t get out of my room till both of my hands had swollen tendons and the walls/ceiling needed to be repainted. 14 years? Are you serious???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I was 26 when I had my first orgasm. I won't lie, I enjoyed it. But the previous 14 years weren't like torture or anything.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

Randy Lafever, I was happier when i had good sex with my W a couple times a week. Not that there are relationship issues between us and she moved to the guest bedroom, I am a lot more frustrated and depressed. My W was had the higher sex drive early on and I was happy then. Now not so much. When I was 14 and laying in bed a long time, having an orgasm helped me go to sleep. I took care of myself several times a week for many years. Getting married and having sex with someone that loved me and I loved made orgasms 5 times better. I have been retired for several years and now have a difficult time going to sleep some nights so i am back doing what I did when I was 14. I would much rather have sex with a willing partner that I respected and loved.

OK, so you and your W don't get along some or most of the time and you can do without sex. I can understand that because that is how a segment of women feel. What some women think or feel, some men will be the same way. It works this way for women and men too.

One question I want you to make an educated, non biased guess about. If you and your W had a relationship where she wanted to be with you more and you wanted to spend time with her, How much sexual activity or feelings would she have for you?

I am guessing she might want more physical and sexual activities or maybe she is also not into any sex except for making babies. What is your best guess as to what your W would say is ideal?

Read some of the female posters opinion of marital relationships and how and what sex plays into their feelings about their husband and them self. I read a fair amount of stories where the W is sexually rejected by the H and she feels un-loved, un-cared for, has low self esteem, and thinks she looks ugly or whatever. Read the following forum and learn how no sex affects people. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/sexlessmarriage/ (skip the people looking for an affair partner and concentrate on how devistating the no sex/ affestion is for some people.)

For several people, having sex is pleasurable and it gives them a feeling of well being, belonging to a unit/family/team/bonded with someone. And there are asexual people who don't see why sex is important. Not everyone is the same. The problems start when there is a mismatch regarding what people prefer and if the differences are too great, then the problems arise.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> Do you actually believe that would help her see the error of her ways, or are you being facetious?


Yes. It will help her see that she is not, in fact, married in any way than legally. How did you even manage to get married?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Randy Lafever said:


> Yeah I was 26 when I had my first orgasm. I won't lie, I enjoyed it. But the previous 14 years weren't like torture or anything.



Not in your sleep either? I remember reading about masturbation & orgasms etc and when I was about 14 or 15 I suddenly had those urges of sticking my **** and rubbing it on anything I could find; walls, trees, heating (ouch), curtains, windows. I really felt like a pervert but couldn’t help it. There was nothing in the house my **** hasn’t touched. 
Anyway, I made it a mission to try and make myself cum so these horrible urges would stop. I remember pushing myself and getting close to something (like a feeling when you are being tickled and then can’t hold it anymore) but could never push myself over that edge. After few weeks of trying hard (haha), eventually I managed and had a massive explosion that probably could be heard on the outskirts of the city.
I remember the feeling; it was unbelievably strong and completely new. Like a huge drug rush. Don’t think any of the subsequent orgasms had the same impact. But I also remember becoming more confident talking to women and suddenly felt proud and more worthy as a human being (ridiculous I know).
I thought if you don’t masturbate, you cum in your sleep after about a week or so of withholding?
Did you have no urge or did you withhold it on purpose? I’m curious about it. Sexuality seems to manifest itself differently in everyone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> Do you actually believe that would help her see the error of her ways, or are you being facetious?


Do you think it is cruel to place your wife in the position that you are putting her in?


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> Yeah I was 26 when I had my first orgasm. I won't lie, I enjoyed it. But the previous 14 years weren't like torture or anything.


For what it is worth I read a story about a woman that did not have her first orgasm until a similar age. While the experience was enjoyable, she too had problems understanding why everyone else seemed to give it so much importance. The idea of tearing a family apart over someone not having enough sexual frequency or orgasms in a marriage completely dumbfounded her. She was perfectly fine to continue life without any real need to continue experiencing additional orgasms. While she did marry and have a family she eventually would question if she should identify herself as an asexual person. Any sexual efforts she made in her marriage were because she did sincerely enjoy making her husband happy and knowing that he really desired her, nothing more and nothing less. 

The husband mean while was a basket case. He felt as if he were a complete failure as a man. He lived his life feeling as though he did not have enough male virility to satisfy his wife and create a desire in her for pleasure. If and when the wife did receive pleasure it was done mechanically with a Hitachi and was not achievable during any form of penetration. The wife sensing the husband was struggling with his self confidence, eventually ceased to allow him to use a Hitachi again as it was counterproductive to her abilities as a wife to make him happy. 

My point being is that to some people an orgasm is not important, and to others it can be extraordinary significant. Do people with such different views on the topic help each other or hurt each other by entering into a marriage? Imagine yourself married to the woman described above. Ask yourself if she was someone that primarily found validation by making her husband happy sexually and knowing that he desired her very much, even though she had no desire for sex herself... would things be any different?

Regards, 
Badsanta

PS: In case you missed the example I was illustrating here. The marriage I described above actually had frequent sex and she accepted her husband as a sexual partner and enjoyed pleasing him. Even to someone that does not find sexual pleasure of any importance, still lives marriage in a way that is sexually active, respectful towards their partner, and caring towards each other's wellbeing.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Randy Lafever said:


> Yeah I was 26 when I had my first orgasm. I won't lie, I enjoyed it. But the previous 14 years weren't like torture or anything.


For what it is worth I read a story about a woman that did not have her first orgasm until a similar age. While the experience was enjoyable, she too had problems understanding why everyone else seemed to give it so much importance. The idea of tearing a family apart over someone not having enough sexual frequency or orgasms in a marriage completely dumbfounded her. She was perfectly fine to continue life without any real need to continue experiencing additional orgasms. While she did marry and have a family she eventually would question if she should identify herself as an asexual person. Any sexual efforts she made in her marriage were because she did sincerely enjoy making her husband happy and knowing that he really desired her, nothing more and nothing less. 

The husband mean while was a basket case. He felt as if he were a complete failure as a man. He lived his life feeling as though he did not have enough male virility to satisfy his wife and create a desire in her for pleasure. If and when the wife did receive pleasure it was done mechanically with a Hitachi and was not achievable during any form of penetration. The wife sensing the husband was struggling with his self confidence, eventually ceased to allow him to use a Hitachi again as it was counterproductive to her abilities as a wife to make him happy. 

My point being is that to some people an orgasm is not important, and to others it can be extraordinary significant. Do people with such different views on the topic help each other or hurt each other by entering into a marriage? Imagine yourself married to the woman described above. Ask yourself if she was someone that primarily found validation by making her husband happy sexually and knowing that he desired her very much, even though she had no desire for sex herself... would things be any different?

Regards, 
Badsanta

PS: In case you missed the example I was illustrating here. The marriage I described above actually had frequent sex and she accepted her husband as a sexual partner and enjoyed pleasing him. Even to someone that does not find sexual pleasure of any importance, this person can still have a marriage that is very sexually active, respectful towards their partner, and honestly caring towards each other's wellbeing.


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## Randy Lafever (Jul 8, 2018)

NobodySpecial said:


> Yes. It will help her see that she is not, in fact, married in any way than legally. How did you even manage to get married?


She understands that, though she hasn't accepted it yet.

I'm sure that I have mentioned that our marriage was the result of a pregnancy. That she decided on against my wishes, it seems.



inmyprime said:


> Did you have no urge or did you withhold it on purpose? I’m curious about it. Sexuality seems to manifest itself differently in everyone.


I had sexual thoughts, erections, etc but I didn't know how to masturbate. I would from time to time touch my genitals but nothing happened. I didn't know it requires 15-20 minutes of focus and sustained friction to make yourself orgasm.

Eventually at age 26 a kindly young lady decided to celebrate the occasion of my first kiss with my first orgasm, though she did seem very surprised it took so long given my long period of abstinence. I suppose she was expecting premature ejaculation?



NobodySpecial said:


> Do you think it is cruel to place your wife in the position that you are putting her in?


I genuinely feel bad that I am unable to meet any of her emotional needs but at this point it is out of any of our hands.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Disclaimer I haven't read other than the OP.

My answer is a few months, but I put up with sexlessness for virtually my entire marriage.

Now something to clarify is that the definition of sexless marriage is less than 10x per year. So not zero, and just a little bit less than once per month. That would have been a lot of sex except while we were trying to get pregnant (she had significant fertility issues).

But now I would not put up with unexplained sexlessness for very long at all. The exceptions would be a health issue or some other issue which she was making a genuine effort at fixing. Assuming unsolvable health issues I am honestly not sure how I would deal with it, but I would expect some alternative activities other than PiV. If it were some other issue then I think I would expect resolution in less than a year along with an honest effort towards the resolution.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@badsanta: to answer the original question: 

to me it was three months.

After three months, of no sex, I didn't even care to know the reason (s) why. I left, and got a divorce.

It was my first marriage. I was much younger, impetuous, and I could get (almost) any woman. So I didn't give it too much though. 

The day I asked if a divorce was what she wanted and she said yes, that was enough for me. Within 24 hrs I was with another chick. When she found out a few days later, she was all bent out of shape telling me that she had reconsidered, but in view that I already was with someone else, that she was going ahead with the divorce. 

I remember that I didn't say anything, because I always went by the rule that to this day I still guide myself by. If you're not that into me, It's over immediately for me. I have had sufficient self-respect and enough confidence in myself when it comes to relationships all my life to always be able to end things whenever I sensed that the relationship has run its course.

I just can't understand people that are incapable (can't have the balls, courage) of moving on, specially when I see that these people have been without sex for decades.... DECADES sometimes, WTF is that????


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I simply dont think you can have a loving relationship without regular sex (meaning several times a month). 

There have been several occasions where I'm just too tired to really be interested in sex, but rub me the right way and my tiredness seems to depart. I think many people that drive their partners into sexless marriages are just lazy and selfish. They aren't in the mood or willing to get in the mood so they feign a headache or cramps or some such excuse. Others just aren't very giving in sex and make the act unfulfilling for their partner or their sexual chemistry with their partner just sucks. Others are more interested in their paramours than their spouse. And then you have a handful that actually have real medical issues. 

Whatever the case, roomate-itus sets in if you don't top your partner off regularly. And that's when the sweet talking coworker or boss swoops in and it's already too late.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> @badsanta: to answer the original question:
> 
> to me it was three months.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing. In my opinion there are some folks that enjoy being alone with just their own company, and they are rather content this way. Think of the cliche of the hermit in many old wise tales that lives life alone in a small run down house next to the lake/ocean and find all other people annoying. Sometimes these individuals with a tendency for this type of personality end up married and with a family. 

Or they end up as scientists in Antartica. Women that have trouble finding husbands often fall in love with the idea of becoming a scientist or researcher in Antartica, because they will have an abundant supply of men to choose from that are also somewhat of a captive audience for them as part of the research endeavors. I watched a documentary on this once and found it interesting as to the slogan that these women coined for trying to find a man in Antartica. The slogan was, "For a woman in Antartica the odds are good, but the goods are odd!" Interestingly those marriages sometimes form strong bonds.

Some may claim it is problematic for someone to be more comfortable alone that with someone they love. While other may claim it is equally as problematic for someone that does not know how to be comfortable alone with just themselves. 

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## PigglyWiggly (May 1, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I simply dont think you can have a loving relationship without regular sex (meaning several times a month).
> 
> There have been several occasions where I'm just too tired to really be interested in sex, but rub me the right way and my tiredness seems to depart. I think many people that drive their partners into sexless marriages are just lazy and selfish. They aren't in the mood or *willing to get in the mood* so they feign a headache or cramps or some such excuse. Others just aren't very giving in sex and make the act unfulfilling for their partner or their sexual chemistry with their partner just sucks. Others are more interested in their paramours than their spouse. And then you have a handful that actually have real medical issues.
> 
> Whatever the case, roomate-itus sets in if you don't top your partner off regularly. And that's when the sweet talking coworker or boss swoops in and it's already too late.


I think this is a step that is a lot more important than many reaiize when trying to navigate responsive desire .


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I am not completely sure of what responsive desire is, but I assume that it refers to a woman who may not think up the idea of having sex, but once things get going she realizes that she is into it and wants it. In other words, she may not think to and initiate but she will respond once the process starts. If a woman knows that she is more responsive in that way, then her job is to not say no. I don't mean never, but I mean it needs to be rare. If she knows that she almost always likes it once it gets going, then she needs to let it get going. Unless someone really is truly physically unable to perform any sexual activity, and that is extremely rare, then step up and make your partner's needs. Or don't get married


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> If a woman knows that she is more responsive in that way, then her job is to not say no.


Post menopause my wife rarely thinks of sex or initiates anymore but will usually get into it. That was a big change and caused a lot of friction until we went with she doesn't say no, but on the rare occasions she can't get into it I don't expect or insist on PiV. That reduced stress and anxiety for both of us.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I am not completely sure of what responsive desire is, but I assume that it refers to a woman who may not think up the idea of having sex, but once things get going she realizes that she is into it and wants it. In other words, she may not think to and initiate but she will respond once the process starts. If a woman knows that she is more responsive in that way, then her job is to not say no. I don't mean never, but I mean it needs to be rare. If she knows that she almost always likes it once it gets going, then she needs to let it get going. Unless someone really is truly physically unable to perform any sexual activity, and that is extremely rare, then step up and make your partner's needs. Or don't get married


I've read cases regarding this topic from the point of view of both genders. In the event someone does have a responsive desire and is always willing to accommodate, it often becomes the other partner's sole responsibility to motivate and arouse both himself/herself and his/her partner. After a few years go buy the process might be described as requiring too much effort to sustain by the person with spontaneous desire. The partner with an active libido then yearns for what it would be like to have someone actively desire him/her and also put some effort into it. 

At some point this breaks down and efforts for the individual with a responsive desire gets rejected unless it is done with genuine effort. The person with a responsive desire is perhaps made to feel manipulated and used because they are being asked to do things that do not come naturally. The person with an active libido begins to appear needy and feel neglected. Both will begin to question if they are being loved or if somehow instead just being used. 

The relationship breaks down and a state of sexlessness begins. Both partners are willing, but no longer recognize the difference between love and manipulation. Resolving that is not easy especially if both have now lost their own self confidence. In my opinion the self development needed to properly address such an issue can take well over a year. The results of which are worth the efforts. After a couple has been through this and seen improvement... ...seeing couples that are ready to end things after less then a few months of sexlessness in my opinion appear to be individuals unwilling to work on self development as a couple and be patient with one another. However each relationship has different dynamics and it is not fair to project one's experiences onto other. Some people may think that being patient and enduring too much when a relationship has encountered hard times is equivalent to self destructive behavior of allowing yourself to be neglected and accepting it. 

There is no right answer and I am surprised by the results of this poll. Instead of following a bell curve there appears to be a bimodal distribution of answers. There is an obvious peak at the one year mark. If the answers followed a traditional curve there should be the same number before and after the peak. The answer before the one-year therefor would be subject to some form of additional external influence. In that case the external influence may be infidelity. 

I would suspect if we took the answers of divided them into two groups. A) relationships with infidelity and B) relationships with loyalty, that each would form a bell curve. 

If that is indeed true, I honestly can not blame individuals for being willing to end a relationship immediately if there is a history of infidelity and the relationship has become sexless. I could be all wrong, but I am puzzled by this poll...

Regards, 
Badsanta


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

badsanta said:


> I would suspect if we took the answers of divided them into two groups. A) relationships with infidelity and B) relationships with loyalty, that each would form a bell curve.
> 
> If that is indeed true, I honestly can not blame individuals for being willing to end a relationship immediately if there is a history of infidelity and the relationship has become sexless. I could be all wrong, but I am puzzled by this poll...


If the choices were a few months, more than a few months but less than 2 years, or 2 or more years, you'd get a nice curve 10, 16, 9.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One factor that also seems common in a sexless marriage with a responsive desire spouse: The LD partner doesn't make any lifestyle changes that would make responsive desire easier. For example, if the LD person is more in the mood when they are relaxed and feel closer to their partner, they could take steps to simplify their life and do more things with their partner. But often, that is not the case. The LD person fills their day with time and mind consuming activities that make it difficult to be relaxed and open to intimacy. They may have so many activities and obligations that they stay up late into the night and not go to bed with their partner. 

The marriage killer with responsive desire is not responsive desire--it's that the LD person actively keeps themselves in a state where they are not able to be responsive. Even when the HD person is willing to make the effort, the effort can seem enormous. Not only do they have to turn the person on, they have to be able to clear the LD's mind from their inbox full of emails, twitter, facebook, TV shows, volunteering activities, work, chores, etc etc etc. The HD person eventually gets tired of trying and eventually gives up.

Take pancakes as an example. Some people spontaneously desire pancakes, others don't, but still enjoy them. When the pancake lover says "Let's have pancakes for breakfast!", their partner will usually say, "Great!", even if they weren't thinking of pancakes at all. But what if their partner said "Pancakes? Today? But there will be a lot of dishes to clean. I need to watch the morning news shows. Then I need to start laundry. Maybe another day." If that kind of objection happens every time pancakes are suggested, eventually the pancake lover will get the hint and stop asking.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

wilson said:


> One factor that also seems common in a sexless marriage with a responsive desire spouse: The LD partner doesn't make any lifestyle changes that would make responsive desire easier. For example, if the LD person is more in the mood when they are relaxed and feel closer to their partner, they could take steps to simplify their life and do more things with their partner. But often, that is not the case. The LD person fills their day with time and mind consuming activities that make it difficult to be relaxed and open to intimacy. They may have so many activities and obligations that they stay up late into the night and not go to bed with their partner.
> 
> The marriage killer with responsive desire is not responsive desire--it's that the LD person actively keeps themselves in a state where they are not able to be responsive. Even when the HD person is willing to make the effort, the effort can seem enormous. Not only do they have to turn the person on, they have to be able to clear the LD's mind from their inbox full of emails, twitter, facebook, TV shows, volunteering activities, work, chores, etc etc etc. The HD person eventually gets tired of trying and eventually gives up.
> 
> Take pancakes as an example. Some people spontaneously desire pancakes, others don't, but still enjoy them. When the pancake lover says "Let's have pancakes for breakfast!", their partner will usually say, "Great!", even if they weren't thinking of pancakes at all. But what if their partner said "Pancakes? Today? But there will be a lot of dishes to clean. I need to watch the morning news shows. Then I need to start laundry. Maybe another day." If that kind of objection happens every time pancakes are suggested, eventually the pancake lover will get the hint and stop asking.


This makes a lot of sense.

In my previous marriage, I was told "If you need it just let me know and I'll accommodate." Accommodate - that was the word he used. How romantic lol However, there were the typical excuses of being tired. stressed, don't feel good. Eventually, he learned to "sense" when I might ask and prepare to decline ahead of time by randomly mention how tired he was, how this, how that.

Add that to the rest of the passive aggressive and lazy dysfunction, and I should have left way before I did.

Ugh...it still triggers me sometimes.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Fozzy said:


> I'd say that probably varies by the woman. Hormones become a train-wreck during pregnancy. I know many women have an elevated interest in sex, but many have the opposite reaction. My wife had zero interest while she was pregnant.
> 
> ETA: reaction will likely vary wildly between men during pregnancy as well. Lots of opportunity for obstacles.


YMMV...we had plenty of sex during most of each pregnancy.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

wilson said:


> One factor that also seems common in a sexless marriage with a responsive desire spouse: The LD partner doesn't make any lifestyle changes that would make responsive desire easier. For example, if the LD person is more in the mood when they are relaxed and feel closer to their partner, they could take steps to simplify their life and do more things with their partner. But often, that is not the case. The LD person fills their day with time and mind consuming activities that make it difficult to be relaxed and open to intimacy. They may have so many activities and obligations that they stay up late into the night and not go to bed with their partner.
> 
> The marriage killer with responsive desire is not responsive desire--it's that the LD person actively keeps themselves in a state where they are not able to be responsive. Even when the HD person is willing to make the effort, the effort can seem enormous. Not only do they have to turn the person on, they have to be able to clear the LD's mind from their inbox full of emails, twitter, facebook, TV shows, volunteering activities, work, chores, etc etc etc. The HD person eventually gets tired of trying and eventually gives up.
> 
> Take pancakes as an example. Some people spontaneously desire pancakes, others don't, but still enjoy them. When the pancake lover says "Let's have pancakes for breakfast!", their partner will usually say, "Great!", even if they weren't thinking of pancakes at all. But what if their partner said "Pancakes? Today? But there will be a lot of dishes to clean. I need to watch the morning news shows. Then I need to start laundry. Maybe another day." If that kind of objection happens every time pancakes are suggested, eventually the pancake lover will get the hint and stop asking.


Well said! 

Eventually things just go off the rails and the pancake lover goes crazy and makes a huge mess of things and their partner will be totally validated to say that eating pancakes it way too disruptive for keeping the house in running order! Why can't pancakes just be a quick fifteen minute thing, why must you have to get so elaborate and take up the whole day with just one of your pancakes!!!!!!!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Unless medical or mutually agreeable frequency.........if there are gaps because one SO always says no.....there's a sign something is wrong with a M beyond the sex.....

That's kind of obvious..


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

badsanta said:


> I've read cases regarding this topic from the point of view of both genders. In the event someone does have a responsive desire and is always willing to accommodate, it often becomes the other partner's sole responsibility to motivate and arouse both himself/herself and his/her partner. After a few years go buy the process might be described as requiring too much effort to sustain by the person with spontaneous desire. The partner with an active libido then yearns for what it would be like to have someone actively desire him/her and also put some effort into it.
> 
> At some point this breaks down and efforts for the individual with a responsive desire gets rejected unless it is done with genuine effort. The person with a responsive desire is perhaps made to feel manipulated and used because they are being asked to do things that do not come naturally. The person with an active libido begins to appear needy and feel neglected. Both will begin to question if they are being loved or if somehow instead just being used.
> 
> The relationship breaks down and a state of sexlessness begins. Both partners are willing, but no longer recognize the difference between love and manipulation. Resolving that is not easy especially if both have now lost their own self confidence. In my opinion the self development needed to properly address such an issue can take well over a year. The results of which are worth the efforts. After a couple has been through this and seen improvement... ...seeing couples that are ready to end things after less then a few months of sexlessness in my opinion appear to be individuals unwilling to work on self development as a couple and be patient with one another. However each relationship has different dynamics and it is not fair to project one's experiences onto other. Some people may think that being patient and enduring too much when a relationship has encountered hard times is equivalent to self destructive behavior of allowing yourself to be neglected and accepting it.


Nailed it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I voted for "Few months". Why? Because after a few months the person(s) who are bothered by the lack of sex should address it with their spouse/partner. There might be circumstances that are beyond anyone's control. But this is a topic that needs to out in the open and dealt with. Then both parties can decide if each of them wants to accept the lack of sex, work on fixing things that can be fixed, or just leave the relationship.

If anyone is not happy with their sex life, and their partner/spouse is not willing to work on fixing it, they have the option to leave. The sooner this is done the better so that both can get on with their lives.


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

* BadSanta
I've read cases regarding this topic from the point of view of both genders. In the event someone does have a responsive desire and is always willing to accommodate, it often becomes the other partner's sole responsibility to motivate and arouse both himself/herself and his/her partner. After a few years go buy the process might be described as requiring too much effort to sustain by the person with spontaneous desire. The partner with an active libido then yearns for what it would be like to have someone actively desire him/her and also put some effort into it.

At some point this breaks down and efforts for the individual with a responsive desire gets rejected unless it is done with genuine effort. The person with a responsive desire is perhaps made to feel manipulated and used because they are being asked to do things that do not come naturally. The person with an active libido begins to appear needy and feel neglected. Both will begin to question if they are being loved or if somehow instead just being used.

The relationship breaks down and a state of sexlessness begins. Both partners are willing, but no longer recognize the difference between love and manipulation. Resolving that is not easy especially if both have now lost their own self confidence.*


Right on brother and so true.
Especially this part:

* Both will begin to question if they are being loved or if somehow instead just being used.*


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Handy said:


> Right on brother and so true.
> Especially this part:
> 
> * Both will begin to question if they are being loved or if somehow instead just being used.*


After having gone through so many struggles in my marriage and feeling what it is to go through that... the solution in my opinion revolves around self confidence. Once you rebuild self confidence and work to also help your spouse, you stop worrying about if the other person loves you or not as you transition instead into making your partner feel loved. 

Now perhaps that can cause some serious issues with those working their way through the concepts of "no more mr nice guy." But making someone feel loved is not always about making that person happy. Perhaps it involves learning to be patient and listening during arguments, or setting realistic boundaries to help respect each other's personal space. 

Badsanta


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## growingme (Jun 11, 2017)

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that a sexless marriage may not be out of the question for all couples. My Wife and I have been married for 9 years, are 29 and 31, and we have sex every 6-9 months. Ever since my Wife had an EA years ago I just shut down sexually with the exception of the occasional "self-help". Every 6-9 months she will start talking about how she would like to have sex, we do and then it's on the back burner again for another 6-9 months. Now that we are down to this routine it has been such an eye opener regarding how time consuming and wasteful sex really is within a marriage. That has been one of the largest misconceptions I will ever know in my lifetime, let alone with a normal drive men may not realize it, but you give women a certain power over you. It's just not worth it imo, you do not have to have a sexual relationship with your spouse to be happy. Every other aspect of our lives is outstanding, we just don't have sex is all.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

growingme said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that a sexless marriage may not be out of the question for all couples. My Wife and I have been married for 9 years, are 29 and 31, and we have sex every 6-9 months. Ever since my Wife had an EA years ago I just shut down sexually with the exception of the occasional "self-help". Every 6-9 months she will start talking about how she would like to have sex, we do and then it's on the back burner again for another 6-9 months. Now that we are down to this routine it has been such an eye opener regarding how time consuming and wasteful sex really is within a marriage. That has been one of the largest misconceptions I will ever know in my lifetime, let alone with a normal drive men may not realize it, but you give women a certain power over you. It's just not worth it imo, you do not have to have a sexual relationship with your spouse to be happy. Every other aspect of our lives is outstanding, we just don't have sex is all.


So your marriage is sexless due to infidelity and dysfunction. Forgive me if I do not consider that a great example of healthy.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

growingme said:


> I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that a sexless marriage may not be out of the question for all couples. My Wife and I have been married for 9 years, are 29 and 31, and we have sex every 6-9 months. Ever since my Wife had an EA years ago I just shut down sexually with the exception of the occasional "self-help". Every 6-9 months she will start talking about how she would like to have sex, we do and then it's on the back burner again for another 6-9 months. Now that we are down to this routine it has been such an eye opener regarding how time consuming and wasteful sex really is within a marriage. That has been one of the largest misconceptions I will ever know in my lifetime, let alone with a normal drive men may not realize it, but you give women a certain power over you. It's just not worth it imo, you do not have to have a sexual relationship with your spouse to be happy. Every other aspect of our lives is outstanding, we just don't have sex is all.


Is your wife also happy with the lack of sex?


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## growingme (Jun 11, 2017)

Faithful Wife said:


> Is your wife also happy with the lack of sex?


My Wife views our marriage the same as I do and she is very happy with our relationship. We have a very loving relationship, and love spending time with each other, going on dates, etc. Sex is just not our thing anymore since her EA which caused me to shut down.


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## growingme (Jun 11, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> So your marriage is sexless due to infidelity and dysfunction. Forgive me if I do not consider that a great example of healthy.


No dysfunction here, I do not have ED, I simply shut down due to her EA several years ago and never thought it was pertinent to try and revive it, the few times I did try to in the early years it was a fruitless effort so I called it a day in that chapter of my life. My Wife and I spoke about the subject and she was very open, understanding, and accepting of it.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

growingme said:


> No dysfunction here, I do not have ED, I simply shut down due to her EA several years ago and never thought it was pertinent to try and revive it, the few times I did try to in the early years it was a fruitless effort so I called it a day in that chapter of my life. My Wife and I spoke about the subject and she was very open, understanding, and accepting of it.


I was referring to marital and emotional dysfunction, not erectile dysfunction.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

growingme said:


> ....you do not have to have a sexual relationship with your spouse to be happy. Every other aspect of our lives is outstanding, we just don't have sex is all.


Everyone is different and that is why each person's answer comes down to a personal choice as to what they need to be happy with a partner. 

However it takes two to agree on this. If your partner had an emotional affair and you shut down afterwards, an emotional affair does not likely just happen... it can be the result of someone feeling neglected, uncared for, and in desperate need of attention. 

Just say'n,
Badsanta


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## growingme (Jun 11, 2017)

badsanta said:


> Everyone is different and that is why each person's answer comes down to a personal choice as to what they need to be happy with a partner.
> 
> However it takes two to agree on this. If your partner had an emotional affair and you shut down afterwards, an emotional affair does not likely just happen... it can be the result of someone feeling neglected, uncared for, and in desperate need of attention.
> 
> ...


That's very true, but let me just point out that nobody makes a person have an affair, be it EA, or PA. My Wife said that she didn't like me traveling so much for work, but she never came out and told me this until after the EA had occurred. Had she told me before hand I would have changed jobs, or requested a transfer immediately to rectify the situation.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> nobody makes a person have an affair, be it ea, or pa


truth


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Randy Lafever said:


> "A year" is way too short. A pregnancy is nine months, then for three months afterwards she is still recovering physically and mentally, and boom, you divorce her? Come on.


Why would a couple stop having sex during pregnancy? Afterwards for 6-10 weeks (for health or religious i.e.Jewish law) reasons, I get. 

I had several difficult pregnancies, all requiring me to take meds and be on bed rest for a period of time. That didn't stop us from having amazing sex. My husband loved it, and so did I! Some of the best sex we ever had was when I was pregnant and/or nursing!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

growingme said:


> My Wife views our marriage the same as I do and she is very happy with our relationship. We have a very loving relationship, and love spending time with each other, going on dates, etc. Sex is just not our thing anymore since her EA which caused me to shut down.


Hmm.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Araucaria said:


> Why would a couple stop having sex during pregnancy? Afterwards for 6-10 weeks (for health or religious i.e.Jewish law) reasons, I get.
> 
> I had several difficult pregnancies, all requiring me to take meds and be on bed rest for a period of time. That didn't stop us from having amazing sex. My husband loved it, and so did I! Some of the best sex we ever had was when I was pregnant and/or nursing!


And even if (just for the sake of argument) the pregnancy did preclude sex for some legitimate health reason, that time should be counted differently than time when both partners are healthy. 

If there's no genuine "in sickness and in health" barriers, then nine months, let alone a year, is waaayyyyy tooooo looooong!


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

john117 said:


> Hmm.


That banner parade doesn't have enough red flags for what he's describing.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I'll check with my Komsomol buddies and get a more suitable one


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