# Why do I stay



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

This is my first post. I don't know how much information to put here. I've been with my wife for 34 years. Our children are grown. She has had a problem with alcohol for our entire marriage. She will drink moderately for a while then she'll get completely passing out drunk one day/night. After that she'll stop drinking for a week or two then she'll start up again with a cuple of beers or wine. There have been short periods when she has stopped but then she goes back again. She had some ONS early in our marriage and I stayed with her. She told me she was drunk and didn't know what she was doing.

Five years ago I found her chatting and flirting online with some men on Myspace. She had made a date with one of them. I confronted her and she blamed me working too many hours and ignoring her. I took the blame and quit my job to be with her more. I tried to reconcile things with her. Read His Needs Her Needs and Love Busters as well as other books. She said she read them but I don't know if she really did. She kept drinking through all of this.

Last year she went to a bar with friends. When she didn't come home at the time she said she would and I couldn't reach her by cell phone I went to the bar to find out if she was ok. She was sitting with two men flirting away. She said they had bought her drinks and she was just talking. I took her home. A few weeks later she was again drinking and she hit on the boyfriend of one of my son's friends. This time I had it out with her and told her if she couldn't behave like a married woman I wanted out. I also read No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man's Sex Life. They helped me to see the truth and act like a man.

Since that time she has been more devoted to me but I was so focused on the infidelity that I never addressed her drinking problem. So she kept drinking. Recently I found out that a guy from her work has been hitting on her. She denied it but a coworker made a comment to her that confirmed my suspicions. She said she'd take care of it. The next day she started arguing with me about another issue. We're looking to move and she didn't like some of the options we had to consider. She started screaming and yelling at me and wouldn't let me even say two words. Then when I stopped trying to talk to her she started drinking again. She yelled at me in bed until 2AM while I was trying to go to sleep. Finally I looked at her and thought if I weren't already married to her would I marry this woman. I was surprised when I answered myself that I would not marry her. So I told her I can't live on this rollercoaster anymore and I want out.

The next day she cried that she didn't want a divorce and begged me for another chance. I told her I've heard those promises before. Yet I found myself telling her I'd give her a week to give me a reason to stay. To show me some actions behind her words. But in my mind all I see is empty promises and her trying to rugsweep again. I'm so lost right now.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

You stay because you love her and are possibly co-dependent.

If you really have had enough, why not just put up a boundary: "When you drink, I am miserable in this relationship, and I will not allow myself to stay in that kind of a relationship. I will stay with you provided you stop drinking, and I will help you to this end if you need it. If you choose to continue, I will leave."

Put it on her shoulders, she is the one that needs to improve herself.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Acorn said:


> You stay because you love her and are possibly co-dependent.
> 
> If you really have had enough, why not just put up a boundary: "When you drink, I am miserable in this relationship, and I will not allow myself to stay in that kind of a relationship. I will stay with you provided you stop drinking, and I will help you to this end if you need it. If you choose to continue, I will leave."
> 
> Put it on her shoulders, she is the one that needs to improve herself.


I did say that to her this past weekend. I told her she needs to give me a reason to stay because I no longer can think of any. I'm don't even want to look at her because I'm afraid I'll want to forgive her again. I'm afraid of getting pulled back in and having this rugswept again. I'm going to a alanon meeting tonight for support but at this point even though I do love her I don't want to be hurt any more.


----------



## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

You stay because you are an enabler and a co-dependent. You also likely stay because your identity has now gotten tied up in being married to an alcholic.

Hard hard thing to break after 34 years. You likely need more help than just alanon.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Hello 
You succeed to tell her what you want, and she now knows your limits. You ask yourself if you would married her if you were not married to her, and the answer was no. I think it tells it all.
If nothing was in your way to make the decision, you really want to make, what would be that decision?


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

growtogether said:


> Hello
> You succeed to tell her what you want, and she now knows your limits. You ask yourself if you would married her if you were not married to her, and the answer was no. I think it tells it all.
> If nothing was in your way to make the decision, you really want to make, what would be that decision?


I keep saying to myself that she has had enough chances and has done enought to me that I should just go and not let her hurt me anymore. But there is still a small part of me that wonders what if she'll change this time. I know this is the first time I have felt I don't want to be married to her. Because we are on the verge of divorce will that convice her to get help and fix the problem? The times when she isn't drinking are so good and I'm so happy. But I'm always waiting for the volcano to errupt and I can't do it anymore.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> The next day she cried that she didn't want a divorce and begged me for another chance. I told her I've heard those promises before. Yet I found myself telling her I'd give her a week to give me a reason to stay. To show me some actions behind her words.


So here's how this will play out: She'll stop drinking for a couple of weeks. Then she'll have just a glass of wine with dinner. Then she'll have a glass before dinner or before going out just to unwind.

And here's the sad reality about alcoholism: it is a disease of denial. "I'm NOT an alcoholic!" "I can stop anytime I want to!" "My drinking isn't that bad, just look at how much so-and-so drinks compared to me!" Blah, blah, blah. 

I don't know if you've ever been codependent enough to go through the house looking for empty bottles and/or cans, but I'd bet the farm that if she "quits" she will have a stash hidden somewhere so she can get a buzz going without you knowing it.

I know.

I am married to an alcoholic.

And just because they stop drinking, doesn't mean their lousy behaviors leave. It's called "stinkin' thinkin'" and alkies do it very well.

Glad you are giving Al-anon a try. It saved my sanity when things got REALLY bad. I hope you find a group you like, because if you do, they can be a wonderful support system. Nobody really understands what it is like to live with an addict until they have lived with an addict.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

*Why do I stay? *

Because you choose to.


----------



## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

Your staying because you think you can fix her. You never will.

Your staying because you have convinced yourself that something bad will happen to her if you leave. It may, but it won't be your fault.

Your staying because you've convinced yourself it is easier to deal with the problems at home, than it is to head back into the world alone. You don't believe that the world is a plentiful place.

Your staying because you have allowed yourself to be beat down for years and haven't had the stones to put your foot down.

Your staying because you believe the lies.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> So here's how this will play out: She'll stop drinking for a couple of weeks. Then she'll have just a glass of wine with dinner. Then she'll have a glass before dinner or before going out just to unwind.
> 
> And here's the sad reality about alcoholism: it is a disease of denial. "I'm NOT an alcoholic!" "I can stop anytime I want to!" "My drinking isn't that bad, just look at how much so-and-so drinks compared to me!" Blah, blah, blah.
> 
> ...


You're right. That's exactly what happens. And I have gone looking for empty bottles. I've even put markers on the partially filled ones to see how much she drinks. She'll tell me its her first glass but when I check she's refilled it a couple of times already before its empty. And she does get beligerant even when she isn't already drinking. She almost always follows it up with a binge. Is it normal for alcoholics to get verbally abusive just before they get drunk?


----------



## Mistys dad (Dec 2, 2011)

She isn't abusive because she is a drunk. She is abusive because she is abusive. 

The Alcohol just lets her true personality out, without control.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

34yearfool said:


> I did say that to her this past weekend. I told her she needs to give me a reason to stay because I no longer can think of any. I'm don't even want to look at her because I'm afraid I'll want to forgive her again. I'm afraid of getting pulled back in and having this rugswept again. I'm going to a alanon meeting tonight for support but at this point even though I do love her I don't want to be hurt any more.


No, we are talking about different things.

I suggested you tell her the terms of you staying.

You suggested that she tell you the terms of you staying.

You are codependent, but perhaps there is a part of you that is realizing that you are going to be let down because she is going to come up with some reasons which will not satisfy you, but you'll go along with them anyway. That is why YOU need to set the terms. It's your life.


----------



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Just because you have realized you don't want to be married to an alcoholic, it does not mean that she will "get" the message--or even if she "gets" it, that she will be able to sustain sobriety.

I know that is not the answer you want to hear. But it is the truth. 

You love the good times and hate the bad, but they only come as a package deal. 

Make up your mind now b/c it will be the actions you take, not your words, that matter. Let her know what you intend to do if you find her drinking and/or flirting again, and then do it. Maybe you will just be "done," and move directly to divorce with the plan to move on with your life. Maybe you will leave and plan for a separation (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, whatever) during which time she can "win" you back by being sober all that time--and tell her you will be arranging for random drug testing (the only way to verify if she is truly sober). You get to decide b/c it is your life.

In the meantime, get some counseling--and talk to your kids about how they feel about having been raised by an alcoholic. There are probably some issues there you need to face. Good luck.

edit: my post was being written at the same time as the one above, and we both wrote independently, "it is your life." Think about that--it's the only one you get. Is this how you want to live it? There is only one solution to your problem, and it starts with you deciding what you want the next 34 years to be like. Once you make that decision and stick to it, all else falls into place.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Acorn said:


> No, we are talking about different things.
> 
> I suggested you tell her the terms of you staying.
> 
> ...


You're right. I'm still relying on her to set the agenda. This is gooing to sound very weak but other than not drinking anymore and not trying to cheat on me I don't know what to say. And saying that doesn't really say how to get to that point for her or me. I'm so confused.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

sisters359 said:


> Just because you have realized you don't want to be married to an alcoholic, it does not mean that she will "get" the message--or even if she "gets" it, that she will be able to sustain sobriety.
> 
> I know that is not the answer you want to hear. But it is the truth.
> 
> ...


My kids. That's another source of guilt for me. I allowed this to go on our entire marriage. My kids are all in counseling. They have severe anxiety and depression issues. I allowed this to screw up my kids. I was a bad father.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

34yearfool said:


> You're right. I'm still relying on her to set the agenda. This is gooing to sound very weak but other than not drinking anymore and not trying to cheat on me I don't know what to say. And saying that doesn't really say how to get to that point for her or me. I'm so confused.


Actually, to me, that sounds like a terrific place to start.

You don't force the men or alcohol on her. You are simply saying that she needs to eliminate the men and alcohol if she wants to be with you. It's her job to take it from there.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> I have gone looking for empty bottles. I've even put markers on the partially filled ones to see how much she drinks. She'll tell me its her first glass but when I check she's refilled it a couple of times already before its empty. And she does get beligerant even when she isn't already drinking. She almost always follows it up with a binge. Is it normal for alcoholics to get verbally abusive just before they get drunk?


Yeah, alkies get pretty darned feisty when they get entrenched in what I called "stinkin' thinkin." "The world sucks, everybody is against me, I'm stressed, why can't they see that I AM STRESSED OUT??? Why won't my idiot spouse and my obnoxious kids just get off my back??? I NEED a drink to calm my nerves. I am NOT an addict; I just need to relax from all this stress I'm under." 

And so it goes.

So, has your marking the bottles to prove to yourself she's drinking more than she admits solved anything? Has it curtailed her drinking? Nope. Because she is an addict. And she is doing what addicts do.

Your kids are now officially ACoA's ("Adult Children of Alcoholics") and they have been exposed to the equal-opportunity destroyer of alcoholism. So have you.

Step away from the addict and allow her the dignity to hit her own bottom; even if that bottom is six feet under. I'm sorry, but that's the way it has to be. As long as you stay, you are the enabler and the status quo will remain.

We have a saying in Al-anon: "Nothing changes if nothing changes."

Think about it.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Don't say you were a bad father, you don't need this on your shoulder right now. If you were there for your kids, you are a good father. Nobody s perfect, perfection is not on this planet. You are a good father 
You are a good husband too. You are giving her a lot of chances. If there's hope you should see it soon because you will see if she changes her routine of drinking.
Jus as-if you could see yourself in the future. It's been 2 weeks from now, and your wife did pretty good. How would that make you feel?
But, let say that she is still drinking, are you going to let her an other chance? Are you going to let her cross your limits an other time?
You have to respect yourself here, how can you do this?


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

I know what you are all saying is true. I've drawn my line in the sand and I have to stick to it. But what if she does what she's always done and stops for a while then goes right back? Will I have the strength to leave this time. And what scares me even more is if I do leave what will happen? I hope the group tonight will give me some strngth. I've been so alone dealing with this for so long. I do need some suport. What kills me is that I love her so much. I've given up so much for her. Changed so much for her. I can't understand why she doesn't love me enough to fix this. I know that's wrong. I know its an addiction. But I feel like she doesn't really love me if she keeps doing this to me.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

girlnextdoor said:


> Hi 34yearfool,
> 
> I don't think you should feel like a fool. It sounds like you truly love your wife and family, have honored your commitment to her, and have been willing to read books and do whatever you thought necessary to help your marriage. That, my friend, is commendable :smthumbup:....not foolish. I'm wondering, have you two ever gone to a marriage counselor? Would you consider going yourself if your wife wasn't willing? Perhaps allowing a professional to "look into" your situation and provide insight and advice would be something to give some serious thought to. I work for an organization, Focus on the Family, that offers a free counseling session over the phone and will also give you a referral to some counselors in your area. Also, you may want to check out this series of articles from the Focus website that address various crises in marriage and how to approach your spouse to get help.
> Please know that you are in my prayers and that God is _for_
> your marriage. Blessings!


Thank you. I will keep this in mind. I asked her to go to MC before and she has said no. She said we can work through this ourselves. Well I can't work through this with her. I need help. She needs help. We need help.


----------



## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> . I've drawn my line in the sand and I have to stick to it. But what if she does what she's always done and stops for a while then goes right back? *Will I have the strength to leave this time*.


Only you know that.

Boundaries w/o consequences are not boundaries.
Stay firm.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

What do you love about her? What would me that list? What values do you like about her?
I would like to see them because the way she treats you make hard to believe that you can even love her. She flirts, she have a drinking problem that seems to screw up your relationship, and she lies with all her promises.
So what do you love about her?


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

growtogether said:


> What do you love about her? What would me that list? What values do you like about her?
> I would like to see them because the way she treats you make hard to believe that you can even love her. She flirts, she have a drinking problem that seems to screw up your relationship, and she lies with all her promises.
> So what do you love about her?


When she's not drinking or flirting around she is has a lot of great qualities.

She makes me laugh more than anyone else I've ever met.

She doesn't have a lot of formal education but she is very smart. She reads a lot and has definite opinions. We have great conversations about politics, science, religion etc.

She's fun and spontaneous. We'll be walking somewhere and she'll just veer off playfully in a "what's over here, catch me if you can" kind of way.

She loves music and she'll crank the steroe and bounce around out house like a teenager. We used to go to clubs (music only) and she would bounce around there too.

She is very engaging with others and socially fun. She's often the life of the party even when she isn't drinking. Once a couple of friends and I took a guy to a strip club before his wedding. The next day she asked me what it was like and so I took her. She ended up sitting down with some of the dancers and having a conversation like they were old college roomates.

With me alone she is extremely loving and intimate. We can just cuddle for hours watching a movie or a TV show. In bed she is very passionate and adventurous. I'll leave it at that.

Basically when she's not arguing with me, drinking or flirting with guys she is a lot of fun to be around. Its like the great times are incredibly great and the rough times are almost unbearable.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Waaow, that is great to ear all that  so positive 
I can see that all those little good things from her make you happy. I can see that if she changes the way she acts on her drinking and flirting, I can see happiness between you two 
What are her solutions to get where she wants to be? What is she willing to try to work on the relationship?


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

growtogether said:


> Waaow, that is great to ear all that  so positive
> I can see that all those little good things from her make you happy. I can see that if she changes the way she acts on her drinking and flirting, I can see happiness between you two
> What are her solutions to get where she wants to be? What is she willing to try to work on the relationship?


That's just it. When I confront her about her drinking or the flirting cheatinh she just withdraws. Its like she gives up or she's confused and doesn't know what to do other than not drink or flirt. She has no proactive plan as far as I can tell. I've suggested counseling both MC and IC. I've suggested AA. But she has to take the steps. If I push her I know it won't work.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

You are her husband, you can do someting. I understand that you don't want to push her, but you can still be there helping her and supporting her. When you sit with her and ask her ''how can you commit to this?'', what would she says? If you ask her '' what would be the benefits of it'', what would she say? You have to show her how important this is, where it would bring you both in your relationship.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> But *what if *she does what she's always done and stops for a while then goes right back? Will I have the strength to leave this time. And what scares me even more is if I do leave what will happen?


You are having the same "magical thinking" as the addict. She's addicted to the booze, and you are addicted to HER. This is not about WHAT IF's, this is about WHAT IS. And what is, is this: you are involved in an addict's business. You are trying, somehow, to figure out how to "fix" her drinking. She doesn't feel she needs, or wants "fixing." Believe it or not, you are as sick as the alcoholic. You will discover that in Al-anon. If you leave, what happens to her isn't on your side of the street. ALLOW THE ADDICT THE DIGNITY TO HIT HER BOTTOM, IF SHE HAS ONE. Comprende?



34yearfool said:


> I can't understand why she doesn't love me enough to fix this. ... I feel like she doesn't really love me if she keeps doing this to me.


Because she doesn't even love herself enough to fix it. Her drinking has absolutely nothing to do with you. Booze is her lover, and you'll be lucky if you come in a distant second. She cannot love you until she learns to love herself.

This is addiction. She owns it. This is codependency. You own that. Yes, you will get support from people in Al-anon, but they will not tell you to stay or go. They will try to get you to take your focus off the addict and get it onto yourself. Her drinking appears to be making you miserable. Actually, your own codependency is what is making you miserable. Pick up a copy of Melodie Beattie's classic, _Codependent No More_. It is a valuable tool that will help you see what I'm talking about. At least, I hope so.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

And a p.s. to all the well-meaning people here who may be advising you to love her more, be more attentive, be more communicative; understand this too:

You cannot control her drinking.

You cannot cure her drinking.

You did not cause her drinking.

You have no power to change an addict. Nobody on this planet is embued with such an attribute. Only the addict has the power to change. Period.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

growtogether said:


> You are her husband, you can do someting. I understand that you don't want to push her, but you can still be there helping her and supporting her. When you sit with her and ask her ''how can you commit to this?'', what would she says? If you ask her '' what would be the benefits of it'', what would she say? You have to show her how important this is, where it would bring you both in your relationship.


Sorry for not replying sooner. This site is blocked at work for some reason.

I really would like to see her go to AA. I think if she stops hiding this problem and sees others that are also dealing with alcohol addiction maybe she won't feel so alone. Can I just say that one of my conditions is she goes to AA?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> You are having the same "magical thinking" as the addict. She's addicted to the booze, and you are addicted to HER. This is not about WHAT IF's, this is about WHAT IS. And what is, is this: you are involved in an addict's business. You are trying, somehow, to figure out how to "fix" her drinking. She doesn't feel she needs, or wants "fixing." Believe it or not, you are as sick as the alcoholic. You will discover that in Al-anon. If you leave, what happens to her isn't on your side of the street. ALLOW THE ADDICT THE DIGNITY TO HIT HER BOTTOM, IF SHE HAS ONE. Comprende?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I will pick that book. Thanks for the suggestion
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## endlessgrief (Feb 19, 2012)

She is a grown woman behaving like a teenage brat. You are doing all the work in the marriage and she is living like a single woman. I am sorry for what she is putting you through. I put my husband through this (without the drinking, I was more flirtatious at work and in chat rooms online) and it nearly wrecked him.

It seems you are being codependent but there is help for that. People who are codependent think they are doing all they can to save the marriage by making things run as smoothly as possible. This never works, as I am sure you have found out. There is NOTHING you can do to stop her awful behavior. You need to change how you deal with her. And if you want out, get out. You only get one life, maybe even separate from her. Without her toxic behavior in your face day and night, you might find that you like it better without her. 

Remember, only you can change you, and only she can change herself. She is having too much fun right now. She is not taking your feelings into consideration. This is highly selfish and you deserve better.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but it doesn't have to be forever. The choice is up to you.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> And a p.s. to all the well-meaning people here who may be advising you to love her more, be more attentive, be more communicative; understand this too:
> 
> You cannot control her drinking.
> 
> ...


So do I have to leave her to help her/us? I'm sorry for all the questions but I'm a bit scared right now. I've never been this close to an inevitably before.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

1977 was a great year to get married! I will add my voice to the chorus here. My MIL was an alcoholic, and my FIL could not bring himself to leave her. Her erratic behavior was horribly destructive to my husband and his brothers. My FIL loved her so much, but did not know what to do. Go to Alanon, get support from others to get the courage to do what you have to do. It may wake her up, but if it doesn't, at least you don't have to live in the hell of being with an addict.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm on my way to the alanon meeting. I hope they are nice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> So do I have to leave her to help her/us? I'm sorry for all the questions but I'm a bit scared right now.


Maybe you do have to leave. That doesn't mean you have to leave for good. Believe me, I understand, first hand, your fears. Lived through it and then some. You are scared because you have tried to be the "glue" to hold this mess together.

The thing is, you are standing by and watching a train wreck in slow motion. You are scared because you are still attempting to control her and her addiction.

I love my husband. I cannot live with my husband. He is a "dry drunk." Even without the booze, he has no program of recovery in place. He ain't workin' the steps. 

So, you start working the steps. Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol; that our lives had become unmanageable.

Same for Al-Anon as A.A. Why? Because Bill W, who was one of A.A's founder had a wife who suffered through his years of alcoholism. His wife founded Al-anon, for those of us who suffer as a result of a loved one's addiction. Get Step 1 down. It takes time. Be kind to yourself. Your peace of mind, and very life depends on working this first step.

Best of luck to you. I'm here to support you, if you need it.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Went to the alanon meeting. They were all very nice. I heard some truly tragic stories and some really uplifting ones. Well in truth they are all uplifting because everyone is moving forward. I started to understand a little about letting go. It doesn't mean I have to let go of my wife in the sense of divorce but I have to let that part of her bahavior go. I can still enjoy the good times with her and the bad times have to be all hers alone. And if it gets to the point that we can't live together because of this then that's how it has to be. At least now I have hope that I can lose the anguish and resentment that has built up over all these years. Best thing, I'm a lot more calm now becasue I don't feel alone anymore.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Has you wife ever had any "fallout" from her drinking? DUI's? Loss of job? Loss of friends or family members who couldn't tolerate her drinking any longer? (It already sounds like her drinking adversely affected your children.) 

You have to allow the bad stuff to happen, if it hasn't already. My husband was pulled over multiple times and spent the night in jail. He lost his job. His license was revoked, but he will get it back in a month or so. Still, I know that deep down he refuses to buy into the fact that he's a "real" alcoholic.

That is the insanity of the disease; they can have their lives falling down around their heads and they still won't get it.

Thus, all you can do is refuse to engage in arguments. Quit looking for hidden bottles. Quit measuring how much she drinks. Even if you taped her drunk and showed her the film when she was sober, she would STILL say she wasn't drunk.

You need a plan of action to step away from her, let go of your resentments (takes a bit of work to do that), and never, ever bail her out if she gets in trouble. There are consequences for actions, and it is not your place to get involved.

Again, you are scared because you are letting go of your part in this problem. You have your own issues. We don't realize how sick we are, until "normies" (those who would never marry, or get involved, with an alkie) look at us like we are nuts for living with what we live with. 

And what we live with is insanity. Keep going to Al-anon. Get into individual counseling. Work on getting better. Your wife? Well, alcoholism is a progressive disease. She may not get better before she gets a lot worse. She may never seek recovery. Her choice. Her life. Respect her right to trash it if she so desires.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Has you wife ever had any "fallout" from her drinking? DUI's? Loss of job? Loss of friends or family members who couldn't tolerate her drinking any longer? (It already sounds like her drinking adversely affected your children.)
> 
> You have to allow the bad stuff to happen, if it hasn't already. My husband was pulled over multiple times and spent the night in jail. He lost his job. His license was revoked, but he will get it back in a month or so. Still, I know that deep down he refuses to buy into the fact that he's a "real" alcoholic.
> 
> ...


At the meeting last night many people talked about how they were angry and resentlful. I do have a lot of resentment but the stongest emotion I have is fear. Fear that I will let myself be pulled back in. Fear that I will lose her entirely if I pull back. But I realized last night that my greatest fear is the fear of not checking up on her and monitoring her. I've been doing it for over 3 decades. I'm afraid that that is all I am now.

She has not faced any fallout from her drinking other than what has affected me and the kids. Of course there is the cheating and the fact that our children are suffering now as a result of seeing their mother not in control so often. But I've held it all together for so long that I feel like I'm just out of whatever it is that I had. I'm just so tired.

I made an appointment today to see a counselor in a couple of weeks. I'm going to continue going to alanon because I just can't do this by myself anymore. Oh and while I was there I asked if anyone had that magic pill I had heard about. I got a few chuckles with that one.


----------



## growtogether (Feb 27, 2012)

Waow!  I'm so happy that you still work on this. It looks like you concentrate your attention on you. You give enough attention and told enough to your wife that you can help that now it's your turn to get better.
I'm very happy for you


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

I figured I'd post an update.

My wife hasn't had anything to drink since last Sunday. We had a good talk over the weekend. I told her I will no longer support or enable her drinking. Whatever the consequences for her are when she drinks will be hers to own. I also said that I will treat her the same loving way I always have when she is sober but if she drinks since she becomes another person I will treat her accordingly.

We talked about her getting help and she agreed to look into counseling. She doesn't want to go to AA however. She says she doesn't feel comfortable. I started to do some research for her into alternative groups to AA. I also looked around TAM for book recommendations for her. She complained that she needs to do it herself. She said I need to let her handle it since its her problem. She's probably right about that. Detatching something I have yet to learn. I'm going to continue to go to alanon because I find it helpful for me.

My son talked to her and told her that if we were to split up he would want to live with me. He said that a lot of his anxiety he attributes to her drinking problems and he feels I am the more stable parent. That really hurt her a lot. She realizes that a lot is on the line. She says that this is rock bottom for her. She knows that if she doesn't find a way to stop she will lose everything and everyone. I told her I will support her but for my own sanity and emtional well being I have to detatch from her when she is drinking or when she gets verbally abusive.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> I figured I'd post an update.
> 
> My wife hasn't had anything to drink since last Sunday. We had a good talk over the weekend. I told her I will no longer support or enable her drinking. Whatever the consequences for her are when she drinks will be hers to own. I also said that I will treat her the same loving way I always have when she is sober but if she drinks since she becomes another person I will treat her accordingly.
> 
> ...


So I am going to be a bit mean here. How does this differ from her other promises? The ones about quiting drinking, being faithful, being sorry? What makes this different? Why is not the rock bottom as opposed to all the other times? And how is your detaching when she is drunk a punishment if you will be there all the other times? I know you need to do it for yourself, but how is that not allowing yourself to be pulled back in? If you were wife were a serial cheater, would you promise to support her when she was being faithful, but detach when she was sleeping with other men?

Remember, addicts lie. That is just what they do. They say what ever they need to say to avoid consequences. Actions, not words, are what is important. Pay attention to what she actually does, not what she says she will do. I wish you luck.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> So I am going to be a bit mean here. How does this differ from her other promises? The ones about quiting drinking, being faithful, being sorry? What makes this different? Why is not the rock bottom as opposed to all the other times? And how is your detaching when she is drunk a punishment if you will be there all the other times? I know you need to do it for yourself, but how is that not allowing yourself to be pulled back in? If you were wife were a serial cheater, would you promise to support her when she was being faithful, but detach when she was sleeping with other men?
> 
> Remember, addicts lie. That is just what they do. They say what ever they need to say to avoid consequences. Actions, not words, are what is important. Pay attention to what she actually does, not what she says she will do. I wish you luck.


You aren't being mean at all. Up to this point her words haven't meant a thing. And they don't mean anything now either. When I went to alanon they suggested that I give my wife time to try to clean up her act. Basically they said that although setbacks can occur if she is showing a geniune commitment to sobriety then I should support her. That is why I am going to love her when she is sober, show her complete indifference when she is not. I'm hoping that positive reinforcement will take hold and spur her on to try harder. But I will only stay with her so long as she is really trying. I don't know if she has changed or is going to change. I can't control her. I can only control myself. I know that this past Sunday when she got verbally/emotionally abusive with me and got drunk, I changed. For the first time ever I did not want to be married to her. That scared me and hopefully it scared her enough to fix her issues. Either way if she is just giving me lip service and doesn't show me effort and action I can't stay with her anymore. I won't let myself be hurt like that again.


----------



## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> You aren't being mean at all. Up to this point her words haven't meant a thing. And they don't mean anything now either. When I went to alanon they suggested that I give my wife time to try to clean up her act. Basically they said that although setbacks can occur if she is showing a geniune commitment to sobriety then I should support her. That is why I am going to love her when she is sober, show her complete indifference when she is not. I'm hoping that positive reinforcement will take hold and spur her on to try harder. But I will only stay with her so long as she is really trying. I don't know if she has changed or is going to change. I can't control her. I can only control myself. I know that this past Sunday when she got verbally/emotionally abusive with me and got drunk, I changed. For the first time ever I did not want to be married to her. That scared me and hopefully it scared her enough to fix her issues. Either way if she is just giving me lip service and doesn't show me effort and action I can't stay with her anymore. I won't let myself be hurt like that again.


But why would it scare her? Does she even remember that you pulled away, apart from you telling her after the fact? I guess I don't believe that you can pull away only sometimes, not if you love her. Because when she behaves well and apologizes, and you get drawn back in, you will be hurt again when she acts awful. Plus she does not care when she is drunk if you pull away. That is not really a consequence because you are back when she needs you. The consequence is pulling away when she is sober - she needs to see the bottom when she is sober, not just when she is acting out.


----------



## 34yearfool (Mar 27, 2012)

Tall Average Guy said:


> But why would it scare her? Does she even remember that you pulled away, apart from you telling her after the fact? I guess I don't believe that you can pull away only sometimes, not if you love her. Because when she behaves well and apologizes, and you get drawn back in, you will be hurt again when she acts awful. Plus she does not care when she is drunk if you pull away. That is not really a consequence because you are back when she needs you. The consequence is pulling away when she is sober - she needs to see the bottom when she is sober, not just when she is acting out.


We talked about it the next day. I told her then I wanted a divorce and I started to list our assets and how we would split things up. It wasn't a bluff. At that point I no longer saw her as my wife. She did apologize but I told her that I'd been there before. I stayed on the fence for the next day or so until I went to alanon. I feel that they can show me how to effectively detach and allow my wife to bear the brunt of her own choices. They also said I shouldn't make any decisions for a while until my head was more clear. I told my wife that only actions at this point are going to mean anything to me. If she continues to drink and is not seeking help I will leave. If she is earnestly trying by going to a group, going to counseling, or whatever then I will stay and try to support her. Its all up to her what happens from this point on. I can't allow myself to be pulled back in by words or false actions anymore.


----------



## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

34yearfool said:


> We talked about her getting help and she agreed to look into counseling. She doesn't want to go to AA however. She says she doesn't feel comfortable.* I started to do some research for her* into alternative groups to AA. *I also looked around TAM for book recommendations for her. She complained that she needs to do it herself. She said I need to let her handle it since its her problem. She's probably right about that. *Detatching something I have yet to learn. I'm going to continue to go to alanon because I find it helpful for me.


I'm gonna give it to you straight: your wife has more sense than you do. DO NOT FIND HER BOOKS, RECOVERY GROUPS, A COUNSELOR, ETC. STEP AWAY FROM THE ADDICT.

Please quit trying to fix her. Fix yourself. You are enabling like crazy. She realizes it's her problem and if she wants to fix it, she will.

Also, please believe me that she is feeding you a line of b.s. to keep you hanging onto the promises. As soon as you started looking for books and programs, she knew she had you hooked. Now all she has to do is manipulate you a bit to reel you in. I lived with an alcoholic for many years. I know all the games. I also am very aware of my own codependency issues. 

Here's what I tried: dragged AH ("alcoholic husband") into A.A., dragged AH into inpatient recovery program, dragged AH into outpatient recovery program, lied to his boss that he wasn't at work because he was "sick", dragged him back out of A.A., dragged him into church, dragged him out of church and into a Bible study, dragged him out of the Bible study. Preached. Begged. Threatened. 

Guess what? I was crazier than the addict. While he was happily zoned out in laa-laa land, or manipulating me (which I allowed him to do), I was getting physically ill. I was a mental wreck. At one point, I had him in the E.R. three days straight. I had the cops in my house at 7:00 a.m. after AH tried to drive, jumped a curb, almost hit a group of children waiting for their school bus, then left the scene of the accident. The cops followed the skid marks back to my driveway.

You have this one, precious life. Find out why the heck you are hanging onto an addict and trying to fix her. STEP AWAY FROM THE ADDICT.


----------

