# Retroactive Jealousy?! I have that!



## I Don't Know

I saw a post by samyeagar in another thread but didn't want to jack the thread. He used the term retroactive jealousy, which I found to be the perfect description of what I feel.

So, my current girlfriend is 34, I'm 38. She's been married twice. Her first husband was physically abusive, the second was controling and a serial cheater. I've been married once. I know I'm too old for this jealousy crap, but I can't stop it. 

I'd like to know how to get over this or at least manage it.

I'll give some examples of things that will put me in a funk.

Being a glutton for punishment, I went deep into her facebook history. Of course there were old status updates about and pictures of her ex husband. It really bothered me that she kept these. We talked about it and she said she had forgoten they were even on there. She deleted the pictures. I don't know if she has or even if you can delete a status, so I just haven't looked that far back again.

2 weeks ago I did it again but this time it was not as far back and it was just statuses and a video of the last guy she dated before me. I deactivated my FB account to help eliminate the temptation to do it again. She knew something was bothering me, so we talked about it a little bit. She reasured me that she's right where she wants to be and I am who she wants to be with.

There's a hundred little things that are like needles, they don't sting so much but they don't help the situation. Things like her saying "when we lived in _______" or "I used to drive a ______ and the mileage sucked" She doesn't mention the ex when she says these things, but I know that's the time period these things would have taken place.

Last weekend she mentioned that with her second husband she had looked into getting her tubal reversed. Man did that hit me hard. It felt like someone took a butcher knife, put it in a freezer for a week and promptly stabbed me in the gut. I mean, here's a guy that she loved so much she would consider surgery to give him a baby? A guy who was cheating on her! I almost left that night. It hurt THAT bad.

I know this is going to destroy our relationship if I don't get a handle on it. Even if it doesn't drive me away, she will end up losing respect for me because it's just screaming insecure at her. I've felt this in all serious relationships before and it did eventually stop. The problem is that, from what I remember, I had to shut down emotionally a bit to stop feeling jealous. I DON'T want to do that this time. 

So what can I do? What can I read? How do I stop myself from dwelling on things I know not too?


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## PBear

Find a counsellor to help. You're right in that this will continue to bother you and it will drive her away. It's YOUR issue to own and deal with. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

There are certain things you'll just have to suck it up on unfortunately...mundane things from the past. It's going to happen. Believe me, I know it sucks, and sucks bad. My STBW and I are living together in her house where she lived with her ex husband, and in the same area where she has spent her whole life and was with all of her past partners. I get to deal with a whole lot of the day to day memories 

How has your girlfriend helped you deal with this? Have you talked with her about it?

Oh yeah...and we sleep in her marital bed...

ETA: I look for Thunder7 to jump in here too


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## ntamph

I Don't Know said:


> Last weekend she mentioned that with her second husband she had looked into getting her tubal reversed. Man did that hit me hard. It felt like someone took a butcher knife, put it in a freezer for a week and promptly stabbed me in the gut. I mean, here's a guy that she loved so much she would consider surgery to give him a baby? A guy who was cheating on her! I almost left that night. It hurt THAT bad.


Do you want children with her? Does she want children with you? She wanted children with him but not with you?


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## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> There are certain things you'll just have to suck it up on unfortunately...mundane things from the past. It's going to happen. Believe me, I know it sucks, and sucks bad. My STBW and I are living together in her house where she lived with her ex husband, and in the same area where she has spent her whole life and was with all of her past partners. I get to deal with a whole lot of the day to day memories
> 
> How has your girlfriend helped you deal with this? Have you talked with her about it?
> 
> Oh yeah...and we sleep in her marital bed...
> 
> ETA: I look for Thunder7 to jump in here too


She is very patient and reassuring with me. She tells me that this is her first relationship that she's felt loved. She says she's not sure how to respond to getting flowers or small gestures of love, because no one else has ever done that for her. I'm the first man that cared about her O, sex with her exes was like a job she says. She had mentioned using toys before, so we went to check some out. When we were at the store, she didn't seem very interested. Of course this made me start wondering, why with them but not with me. When I asked her why she was interested in vibrators before but not so much now, she said "I don't need them with you."  

She never just randomly brings up her exes. It's always in context of something we're talking about, so I know she's not consciously doing it to hurt me or because she's thinking of them.

Yeah we sleep in her marital bed too when I stay at her place. Man that was awkward at first.

When you say suck it up do you mean just internalize it and process it? I usually do for the small stuff and it'll work out of my system in a little while.



ntamph said:


> Do you want children with her? Does she want children with you? She wanted children with him but not with you?


No, we have 6 kids between us already. We're not looking to have more. It's more that she would consider invasive surgery for such an A hole. I have a hard time with how much she gave to a relationship with someone who treated her so bad. The surgery thing all came up in context of discussing the cost of surgery in the US vs. Mexico. 

Pbear, yes this is 100% my problem. It's not fair of me to go digging or to make her feel like she can't even say anything about her past.

Added: I try to remember that even though I won't be her first at most things, I can still be her last and hopefully best. But it's hard to keep those positive thoughts in the moment.


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## Faithful Wife

Maybe every time you catch yourself wondering about her past, you can instead remember the sex you had with someone else. Just to sort of short-circuit your thought process.


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## lifeistooshort

In what context does she bring up her exes? Can you give an example? It does sound like you're a bit extreme but my hb used to be really bad about bringing up exes, and even though they were technically not random were somewhat related to what we were talking about they were still wildly inappropriate. I put a stop to it, but I'm not sure I'd recommend my methods to everyone. It would really depend on the context.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> She is very patient and reassuring with me. She tells me that this is her first relationship that she's felt loved. She says she's not sure how to respond to getting flowers or small gestures of love, because no one else has ever done that for her. I'm the first man that cared about her O, sex with her exes was like a job she says. She had mentioned using toys before, so we went to check some out. When we were at the store, she didn't seem very interested. Of course this made me start wondering, why with them but not with me. When I asked her why she was interested in vibrators before but not so much now, she said *"I don't need them with you." *


Bingo  What you said above sounds very similar to my STBW and her past. She has had way more partners than I have, and from her reactions to even the simple things I do, I believe her when she says I'm far and away the best she's ever had. I am glad to hear that she is working with you on this. That is so important, and I really do think you can get through this no probles with her support.



> She never just randomly brings up her exes. It's always in context of something we're talking about, so I know she's not consciously doing it to hurt me or because she's thinking of them.


Yep. Same here. There is always a context, but living where we do, the context is pretty frequent.




> Yeah we sleep in her marital bed too when I stay at her place. Man that was awkward at first.


The marital bed still bugs me from time to time, and we've been in it for a year and a half. The fact that we live in her marital home does make it tough for me sometimes with all the reminders. About the bed though, she understands that it is tough for me, and has volunteered to look for a new one. The first time I brought it up, we talked about it for a few minutes, and she got online and started looking for a new one right then. Just her offering made a huge difference, and I am pragmatic enough to know that buying a new bed right now is not in the budget, but we are budgeting that in as part of the wedding expenses.



> When you say suck it up do you mean just internalize it and process it? I usually do for the small stuff and it'll work out of my system in a little while.


That's exactly what I mean. One of the recent things was we are fostering her three year old nephew, and he fell and banged his face on an end table top. When she was telling her mom about what happened, she said 'He banged his face on that table top Eric made, and reminded her mom of how Eric worked at a counter top company and made it out of a cut out. Was all the extra detail really necessary? Hell no, and it buged me. The thing is, she didn't really think anything of it, and her normal personality is to give excessive details some times. I just let it go.



> No, we have 6 kids between us already. We're not looking to have more. It's more that she would consider invasive surgery for such an A hole. I have a hard time with how much she gave to a relationship with someone who treated her so bad. The surgery thing all came up in context of discussing the cost of surgery in the US vs. Mexico.


My STBW did some pretty extreme things for such a complete douche nugget as her ex husband. We have to remember though that for a lot of their relationships, they were not in the same mindset they are with us. They are in MUCH better places, and we don't ever want them to go back there. They were afraid of losing those relationships because they had been treated so badly, their esteem was so low...




> Pbear, yes this is 100% my problem. It's not fair of me to go digging or to make her feel like she can't even say anything about her past.


Thats one of the keys. Don't go looking for things. Don't make it worse on yourself. Enough will happen that you don't need to help yourself along  The digging is what concerned me the most about what you are describing. That is getting into dangerous territory.


> Added: I try to remember that even though I won't be her first at most things, I can still be her last and hopefully best. But it's hard to keep those positive thoughts in the moment.


Not many firsts left are there? I have had an issue with that myself. She has been really good at pointing them out to me when they do happen...first vaginal O, first squirting O, first bj where she swallowed...and the big bonus...she liked it


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## I Don't Know

She doesn't usually bring up the exes. More like that time in her life. We'll be talking about the kids in school and she'd mention how great the schools were where she used to live. Or we were talking about needing a bigger vehicle to haul all the kids around and she said "I used to have a suburban but it drank gas." 

The only times I can really think of her directly mentioning them was about the surgery thing and we were talking about stay at home moms. She said she'd never do that again, her ex (#2) wouldn't allow her to work but she had to have dinner ready when he got home, but she never knew what time he'd be there. She had to run his bath water, lay his clothes out, if she bought something he'd yell at her for spending "his" money. It's usually in a context of "I am this way because....." Like when she cooks, she cooks a ton of food. She explained to me that her first husband would eat then their kids and then her, if there wasn't enough left for him to have seconds he would hit her. So, yeah it's not usually good stuff when she does talk about them.

Wow, looking at that, I might actually be bat sh!t crazy. It's never good things she says about them. I think in my mind I only focus on the "good" parts. 

I hear "My ex-husband made so much money I didn't have to work" when she's saying "my ex-husband was a controlling dink!" 

I hear "I put up with him cheating on me because I loved him so much" and she's saying "I don't give up on my relationships easily, and I won't give up on US!"


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## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> She doesn't usually bring up the exes. More like that time in her life. We'll be talking about the kids in school and she'd mention how great the schools were where she used to live. Or we were talking about needing a bigger vehicle to haul all the kids around and she said "I used to have a suburban but it drank gas."
> 
> The only times I can really think of her directly mentioning them was about the surgery thing and we were talking about stay at home moms. She said she'd never do that again, her ex (#2) wouldn't allow her to work but she had to have dinner ready when he got home, but she never knew what time he'd be there. She had to run his bath water, lay his clothes out, if she bought something he'd yell at her for spending "his" money. It's usually in a context of "I am this way because....." Like when she cooks, she cooks a ton of food. She explained to me that her first husband would eat then their kids and then her, if there wasn't enough left for him to have seconds he would hit her. So, yeah it's not usually good stuff when she does talk about them.
> 
> Wow, looking at that, I might actually be bat sh!t crazy. It's never good things she says about them. I think in my mind I only focus on the "good" parts.
> 
> *I hear "My ex-husband made so much money I didn't have to work" when she's saying "my ex-husband was a controlling dink!"
> 
> I hear "I put up with him cheating on me because I loved him so much" and she's saying "I don't give up on my relationships easily, and I won't give up on US*!"


YES! A thousand times YES! She is someone who has accepted her past, and the thing is, if there is any mention, I would be willing to bet that there is no emotion beind it at all. Just matter of fact for her.

My STBW has explained that to me. That if there is any mention, it is either a bad memory, or really just a fact with nothing behind it any more. She has had years to process these things, and she realizes that I haven't and so she is more than patient with me.


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## alexm

I was in the same boat you are, and still am to a degree, so I know what it's like. Exactly what it's like!

I spent FAR too much time worrying about her past (and doing a little digging on FB, like you), and I felt horrible afterwards.

I will tell you, though, that it gets better, and it does eventually go away, more or less. I still find myself getting to those places from time to time, but then I tell myself it's ridiculous, and the feelings wane.

And one of the things that made it better for me - or at least made me realize that it can go both ways - is that I'd find myself talking about something in MY past to my wife. Like how much I loved some city I visited with my ex, or a tv show my ex and I were really into. Mundane things. When I've mentioned those things, I certainly don't say something like "My ex and I had such a great time when we..." It's more like I'm talking about a time and a place, or a situation that my ex happened to be a part of. The ex isn't part of the story, know what I mean? To me, those memories had absolutely nothing to do with my ex - she was just there. It could have been anyone. They were memories of a good time I had in the past. My current wife probably hears it totally different, in that those memories are of me having a great time WITH my ex.

So the conclusion I came to is that we all have good and bad memories of our past, and when we reminisce about them, our partners may take it as remembering good times WITH our exes, when that's not usually the case.

Anyway, short answer, and one I've learned from experience, is to never snoop around without your partners knowledge. If you're the type who absolutely needs to know something, it's much better to be upfront and ask them.

It's also incredibly important to realize that just because your partner does not answer, or does not WANT to answer, it does not mean they have something to hide, or want you to not know. My ex had no problem in talking about her past before me. My current is not interested. I do not take that as a sign that she has something to hide, just that she had a past life, and it's inconsequential to the present.


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## samyeagar

As alexm said, it does get better with time, as long as you do not find yourself obsessing over it.

One thing that triggered fairly recently for me was almost a comedy of errors that I just took from bad to worse. We were walking through the store, and there was a big display of baby oil. We sleep on a water bed, and so I made the comment about stripping the sheets and oiling it up, and she said that might sound fun in theory, but you can't get any leverage. In an attempt to redirect, I said that since baby oil tears the crap out of condoms and other latex and rubber things, it probably wouldn't be good for the mattress. She said she didn't know that because she never had to worry about it because she never really used condoms...uggh.


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## Thunder7

Every few weeks, like clockwork, eh, samyeager. 

I wish I had a little more time to offer what little insight I have to the situation. The others have all covered it pretty well. It is definitely step in the right direction, I Don't Know, that you recognize it as YOUR problem, not hers. While I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt we in this ugly little fraternity wish our SO's had no past at all to speak of, we recognize that they do, and it's not their fault; they did nothing wrong. It's called life. As long as you are not piling your baggage on her it's just a matter of finding the best way for you to deal with your issue. And, like most things, there's always more than one way to tackle a problem. You just have to find which way works best for you. 

samyeager:



samyeagar said:


> She said she didn't know that because she never had to worry about it because she never really used condoms...uggh.


Doesn't it always seem to be the most innocuous, throw away, comments that trigger the worst reaction? She made a 'matter-of-fact' statement that wouldn't have even registered with most people, but it was like smacking you in the face with a frying pan.


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## Mavash.

Just piping in to offer support. This is very real and very painful.

I wish you well and hope you can come to peace with her past.


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## samyeagar

Thunder7 said:


> Every few weeks, like clockwork, eh, samyeager.
> 
> I wish I had a little more time to offer what little insight I have to the situation. The others have all covered it pretty well. It is definitely step in the right direction, I Don't Know, *that you recognize it as YOUR problem, not hers.* While I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt we in this ugly little fraternity wish our SO's had no past at all to speak of, we recognize that they do, and it's not their fault; they did nothing wrong. It's called life. *As long as you are not piling your baggage on her it's just a matter of finding the best way for you to deal with your issue*. And, like most things, there's always more than one way to tackle a problem. You just have to find which way works best for you.
> 
> samyeager:
> 
> 
> 
> *Doesn't it always seem to be the most innocuous, throw away, comments that trigger the worst reaction? She made a 'matter-of-fact' statement that wouldn't have even registered with most people, but it was like smacking you in the face with a frying pan*.


Thunder7...yep 

Realizing and admitting the problem is 90% of the battle. Not obsessing over her past is the other part. If you find yourself obsessing over it, then there are issues beyond RJ that really need to be addressed because they will kill your relationship.

Always remember to consciously make sure you do not say or do anything to disrespect, humiliate, degrade, make her justify, or otherwise use her past against her because she did nothing wrong, and that is very unfair, especially in the heat of an argument. She is working with you on this right now. That shows that she really does care and is putting in the effort to make this work.


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## Thunder7

Mavash. said:


> Just piping in to offer support. This is very real and very painful.
> 
> I wish you well and hope you can come to peace with her past.


Hi Mavash. Hope all is well.

As Mavash pointed out, IDK, this is an issue that can be very difficult, not only for the person dealing with the RJ, but also for that person's SO. So, tread lightly. Good luck.

One more thing. Please ignore the flood of 'just get over it' comments that usually accompany a thread of this nature. They should be coming in.....3....2....1.....


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## Mavash.

Wouldn't it be nice if "just get over it" worked? 

I wouldn't have had to spend thousands of dollars healing myself from depression then. 

TAM wouldn't exist. Therapists would be out of business. The drug market would collapse. 

Just get over it. Brilliant! 

I think the exact opposite advice works actually. EMBRACE the feelings and learn to coexist with them.

I've had to learn to coexist with my depression tendencies and the same can be said for RJ. It just takes a bit of effort, awareness, counseling maybe and mindfulness.


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## samyeagar

Satya said:


> *She is not living in her past, she is living in the present, with you*.
> 
> Her past will still have shaped her into the person she is today, so for all your jealousy, if she had not taken the course in life she did, you may not be with her now.
> 
> We all have a story.


The thing people seem to forget when forming this idea, is that her past becomes his present everytime it comes up. For her, it is recalling a memory that she has processed and worked through. For him, he is experiencing it in the present, for the first time.

I would seriously question the empathy of a partner who's response to RJ is simply 'get over it'


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## samyeagar

Mavash. said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if "just get over it" worked?
> 
> I wouldn't have had to spend thousands of dollars healing myself from depression then.
> 
> TAM wouldn't exist. Therapists would be out of business. The drug market would collapse.
> 
> Just get over it. Brilliant!
> 
> I think the exact opposite advice works actually. EMBRACE the feelings and learn to coexist with them.
> 
> I've had to learn to coexist with my depression tendencies and the same can be said for RJ. It just takes a bit of effort, awareness, counseling maybe and mindfulness.


Thunder7 and I may be the resident RJ guys, but you are certainly the resident spouse, and I just have to applaud your efforts to realize that this is a very real thing and not something that should just be dismissed. It's one of those things that unless you have lived it, you really can't understand it.


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## Mavash.

I fully admit I don't 'get' RJ I just don't.

But then again my husband didn't 'get' my depression either.

I believe in the philosophy of unless you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes you have no idea their pain.

If you tell me you are in pain I will take that at face value and treat it with kindness even if I don't fully understand it.

It's the right thing to do.

I offer that same compassion to the OP.


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## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> As alexm said, it does get better with time, as long as you do not find yourself obsessing over it.
> 
> One thing that triggered fairly recently for me was almost a comedy of errors that I just took from bad to worse. We were walking through the store, and there was a big display of baby oil. We sleep on a water bed, and so I made the comment about stripping the sheets and oiling it up, and she said that might sound fun in theory, but you can't get any leverage. In an attempt to redirect, I said that since baby oil tears the crap out of condoms and other latex and rubber things, it probably wouldn't be good for the mattress. She said she didn't know that because she never had to worry about it because she never really used condoms...uggh.


Yep, just like that. It doesn't mean anything to her, she's just telling you a fact. But it just takes the wind out of your sail. My GF told me a lot of things when we were in the teasing/flirting stage. Just general I like this and that type stuff. At the time it was HOT! Now, I just wish I didn't know. LOL funny how that table turns. 

I'm glad you found an awesome girl, sam. I know how that feels and 99% of the time it feels awesome! Well worth the 1% when we get in our heads.

Thank you everyone for your support and advice! 

Satya, you're exactly right. We are both who we are today BECAUSE of our pasts. She always tells me timing is everything, and we met exactly when we were meant to. She believes our lives have been preparing us to be with each other. That says a lot about her mindset to me.

I am very careful not to cast blame at her for her past. I don't even feel like she did anything "wrong."


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## Thunder7

Mavash. said:


> I fully admit I don't 'get' RJ I just don't.


Mavash, I don't think we 'get it' either. And that's the ***** of it. From a logical standpoint we all say, 'This makes no sense at all to feel this way'. But that doesn't stop those feelings. 

OP, just so you know, in the little bit of research that I've done on this I have found that RJ is actually a form of OCD, which would explain the compulsiveness of it. And, also why 'just get over it' is meaningless.


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## SimplyAmorous

I too do not care for the "just get over it already... she is with you Bud" attitudes that come forth on these threads... 

Just from observing others stories....the way men are geared.....I feel some of the most loving / giving men ...with the biggest & deepest hearts for their women ARE the ones who struggle with this issue..it is because they love so deeply and *are sensitive*...in many ways, this is just one (and it can cause a problem & torment him)....but yet....it is born out of the fact he loves so deeply, it hurts to imagine her being with another......so it's very delicate to deal with this...

And I give kudoos to all the wonderful women who have taken the time to understand what they are going through and to NOT make light of it... but to show they care.. that they are there for the long haul in helping them overcome it...whatever it takes.......those relationships will MAKE it...and thrive...

Being flippant about this very delicate thing is to spit on the man....that's what I see. 

Samyeagar has a very GOOD attitude in this ...You should do a specific thread devoted to this.....you seem to be the poster boy of overcoming on this as well.. take notice of his words here again......there is NO judgement on the woman...



> *samyeagar said:* Always remember to consciously make sure you do not say or do anything to disrespect, humiliate, degrade, make her justify, or otherwise use her past against her *because she did nothing wrong*, and that is very unfair, especially in the heat of an argument. She is working with you on this right now. That shows that she really does care and is putting in the effort to make this work.


 :smthumbup:


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## Lordhavok

Just remember that this is your problem, not hers. Rj is a form of ocd, when you add depression and reality perception problems in the mix, it can be a real mess, not going to go into my story but I've been suffering for 15 years. It gets better, but it never goes away, always a trigger. Lots of people find that talking it over with their partner helps out a good bit. I dont talk to her about it anymore, I know enough to be scarred for life like it is. Dive deeper into the rabbit hole and theres just more crap to pile on with the rest of it. "Just get over it" , "the past is the past", "she wouldnt be who she is today", I've heard all that and many more, it would be nice to be able to think like that. Just dont work with people like us. We all have a past, we all make mistakes, ect, holding the past against someone is really unfair. Talking to her about it might help alot, then again she could get tired of hearing it over and over and it might actually drive her away. Hopefully you will get some good advice on this from others. I've been looking for answers on this myself for quite sometime, this is actually what brought me to this site. I never said anything about it because of all the bullsh*t others spout off about it when they dont have an issue with it. Funny how when something effects you directly your whole perception of things change.


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## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, just like that. It doesn't mean anything to her, she's just telling you a fact. But it just takes the wind out of your sail. My GF told me a lot of things when we were in the teasing/flirting stage. Just general I like this and that type stuff. At the time it was HOT! Now, I just wish I didn't know. LOL funny how that table turns.
> 
> I'm glad you found an awesome girl, sam. I know how that feels and 99% of the time it feels awesome! Well worth the 1% when we get in our heads.
> 
> Thank you everyone for your support and advice!
> 
> Satya, you're exactly right. We are both who we are today BECAUSE of our pasts. She always tells me timing is everything, and we met exactly when we were meant to. She believes our lives have been preparing us to be with each other. That says a lot about her mindset to me.
> 
> I am very careful not to cast blame at her for her past. I don't even feel like she did anything "wrong."


What you said here could have been written about my STBW and I. All of it. When we were first getting to know eachother, various stories, not too detailed mind you, no problems at all, but now...I wish I'd never known. 

Both of us being of the mindset that we are who we are today because of our pasts, and that it seems that fate brought us together, we were being prepared for eachother...yep, that's us. We both agree that even though we were miserable in our marriages, if we had met ten years ago, no way we'd end up together, and if we'd known eachother before we were married, we likely wouldn't have even been friends.

One thing a lot of people just don't get is that the feelings are never ones of disgust, contempt, or anything bad at all towards her. I have never thought any less of her, that she did anything wrong, or thought she was dirty or anything like that at all. They just are, and are almost detached from her in a way. So many people just don't get it...they think we are thinking badly of our partner, shaming them, and nothing could be farther from the truth.

I think the main thing is the mind movies. Even simple things create the mental image, and the real chore is getting the image out of my head.


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## captainstormy

I don't really understand what your jealous of? You knew she had two previous husbands before you got married I'm guessing and at 34 years old you couldn't have expected (or really wanted) her to not have had any life experiences with other men.

Are you jealous you aren't the first guy she's been with? It sort of sounds that way. If so, keep in mind she isn't the first woman that you've been with either. From your description you even say that she isn't really bringing up the exes just talking about relevant life experiences from the past.

My advice, would be to get some sort of counseling for this. If it keeps going it's just going to turn into trouble for the relationship.


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## Mavash.

Thunder7 said:


> Mavash, I don't think we 'get it' either. And that's the ***** of it. From a logical standpoint we all say, 'This makes no sense at all to feel this way'. But that doesn't stop those feelings.
> 
> OP, just so you know, in the little bit of research that I've done on this I have found that RJ is actually a form of OCD, which would explain the compulsiveness of it. And, also why 'just get over it' is meaningless.


I've suffered from OCD so that I get.

Yeah I was that woman alphabetizing the spices and making labels all match back in my crazy days.

Logically I knew it made no sense but I couldn't stop doing it.


----------



## I Don't Know

Thunder7 said:


> OP, just so you know, in the little bit of research that I've done on this I have found that RJ is actually a form of OCD, which would explain the compulsiveness of it. And, also why 'just get over it' is meaningless.


That's very interesting. It does make sense for it to be. I knew no good was going to come from digging, but I almost HAD to do it. I stopped myself twice, but finally ended up doing it anyway. I knew she had to have seen some good in her ex and loved him. But it was much different knowing that in an abstract way, and seeing pictures of them together.


----------



## norajane

I Don't Know said:


> *Being a glutton for punishment, I went deep into her facebook history.* Of course there were old status updates about and pictures of her ex husband. It really bothered me that she kept these. We talked about it and she said she had forgoten they were even on there. She deleted the pictures. I don't know if she has or even if you can delete a status, so I just haven't looked that far back again.
> 
> *2 weeks ago I did it again* but this time it was not as far back and it was just statuses and a video of the last guy she dated before me. I deactivated my FB account to help eliminate the temptation to do it again. She knew something was bothering me, so we talked about it a little bit. She reasured me that she's right where she wants to be and I am who she wants to be with.
> 
> I know this is going to destroy our relationship if I don't get a handle on it. Even if it doesn't drive me away, she will end up losing respect for me because it's just screaming insecure at her. * I've felt this in all serious relationships before *and it did eventually stop. The problem is that, from what I remember, I had to shut down emotionally a bit to stop feeling jealous. I DON'T want to do that this time.
> 
> So what can I do? What can I read? How do I stop myself from dwelling on things I know not too?


Since you already knew you were prone to RJ, may I ask why you went deep into her FB history? 

I would think that if you already know RJ is a problem you have, the less investigating into the past you would do so that you have less to dwell on.


----------



## Thunder7

captainstormy said:


> I don't really understand what your jealous of? You knew she had two previous husbands before you got married I'm guessing and at 34 years old you couldn't have expected (or really wanted) her to not have had any life experiences with other men.
> 
> Are you jealous you aren't the first guy she's been with? It sort of sounds that way. If so, keep in mind she isn't the first woman that you've been with either. From your description you even say that she isn't really bringing up the exes just talking about relevant life experiences from the past.
> 
> My advice, would be to get some sort of counseling for this. If it keeps going it's just going to turn into trouble for the relationship.


And there it is. It only took 2 pages.


----------



## norajane

I Don't Know said:


> That's very interesting. It does make sense for it to be. I knew no good was going to come from digging, but I almost HAD to do it. I stopped myself twice, but finally ended up doing it anyway. I knew she had to have seen some good in her ex and loved him. But it was much different knowing that in an abstract way, and seeing pictures of them together.


I was typing as you were. THIS is really what I don't understand about RJ. You know there is nothing good that will come of digging, and you know that it's always going to make things worse for you, so why look for things that you know will make it that much harder not to dwell.


----------



## Thunder7

norajane said:


> Since you already knew you were prone to RJ, may I ask why you went deep into her FB history?
> 
> I would think that if you already know RJ is a problem you have, the less investigating into the past you would do so that you have less to dwell on.


Compulsion. Not logic.


----------



## Thor

Do you feel your needs are being met? Do you feel you are getting her best?

I have had some serious RJ issues at times with my wife. I can identify some common aspects when it happens.

First, she makes a throw away comment about her past which seems as if she has no empathy for how it might feel to hear it. The example about not using condoms is a good one. Yeah it would be crappy to hear that, and she should be more considerate.

I mean, why did she think of it that way? She is thinking of the past rather than the present. Why didn't she say something like "yeah condoms and oil don't mix"?

To turn it around, even a compliment could be said in an unthoughtful way. "Wife, you taste so much better than any of my previous girlfriends". I would never say something like that to her because I would think about how it might be taken by her.

The other aspect of it for me has been that I am not getting all she gave the others. Or, I got it while dating but not after the wedding. So for her to mention doing it in the car or on the beach with other boyfriends is a bit of poke in the eye to me because she has never done that with me. And, she seems to think there is no reason to do it with me.

If we were having frequent hot sex but just not in the car, it wouldn't be a big deal. When needs are being met there is no need to keep score or make comparisons with previous partners.


----------



## Thunder7

samyeagar said:


> One thing a lot of people just don't get is that the feelings are never ones of disgust, contempt, or anything bad at all towards her. I have never thought any less of her, that she did anything wrong, or thought she was dirty or anything like that at all. They just are, and are almost detached from her in a way. So many people just don't get it...they think we are thinking badly of our partner, shaming them, and nothing could be farther from the truth.


Exactly! The funny thing is I almost NEVER think about this crap when I am face to face with my wife. It's when she's NOT around that the mind goes crazy.


----------



## Mavash.

Thunder7 said:


> Exactly! The funny thing is I almost NEVER think about this crap when I am face to face with my wife. It's when she's NOT around that the mind goes crazy.


QFT


----------



## Thunder7

Thor said:


> Do you feel your needs are being met? Do you feel you are getting her best?
> 
> When needs are being met there is no need to keep score or make comparisons with previous partners.


Both excellent points. Love the band Foo Fighters. The song 'Best of You' is a trigger for that very reason. I sometimes feel as though the best was given to someone else, and I'm stuck with whatever's left. I go 2-4 weeks without sex and think, 'I bet none of the ex's ever went that long. She didn't say no to them'. 

Keep in mind, we're talking 23+ years ago! Kinda wish I could get off this crazy train.


----------



## samyeagar

captainstormy said:


> I don't really understand what your jealous of? You knew she had two previous husbands before you got married I'm guessing and at 34 years old you couldn't have expected (or really wanted) her to not have had any life experiences with other men.
> 
> Are you jealous you aren't the first guy she's been with? It sort of sounds that way. If so, keep in mind she isn't the first woman that you've been with either. From your description you even say that she isn't really bringing up the exes just talking about relevant life experiences from the past.
> 
> My advice, would be to get some sort of counseling for this. If it keeps going it's just going to turn into trouble for the relationship.


I really think that the term Retroactive *Jealousy* is a huge misnomer. The feelings are really not jealous feeling at all. It is one of those things that unless you experience the feelings, you have no way to understand them.

Counselling isn't really needed for simply having the feelings. The compulsion to dig is where things get troublsing. The main difference between myself and the OP is the compulsion to dig. I never felt that at all. I think part of the reason why, is that I am accutely aware of the RJ in myself and have managed to eliminate that compulsion. Self awareness of this is key, and the more aware one is of it, the easier it is to deal with. And having an understanding and empathetic partner is invaluable.


----------



## samyeagar

Thunder7 said:


> Exactly! The funny thing is I almost NEVER think about this crap when I am face to face with my wife. It's when she's NOT around that the mind goes crazy.


ABSOLUTLY! Same with me. Almost never crosses my mind when I am with her, and never when we are in bed together.


----------



## Thor

samyeagar said:


> I really think that the term Retroactive *Jealousy* is a huge misnomer. The feelings are really not jealous feeling at all. It is one of those things that unless you experience the feelings, you have no way to understand them.


For me it isn't so much jealousy of the other men, but rather a feeling that she is not into me. The comparisons in my mind are in a way sort of mulling over the proof that she is capable of all those things, but not with me. Maybe it is a bit of low self esteem at work when the mental comparisons are made.

Also probably some insecurity is at play. If she'd do all that with them but not with me, does it mean she might unexpectedly leave?

For me it is very much a comparison of how she was during our courtship vs after the wedding, plus extending that comparison to what she did with others vs what she did with me while dating. There is a clear difference. She did stuff with other guys she dated, and sometimes quite quickly. She didn't do all that with me even though we dated for 3 yrs before getting married. Then after the wedding she did less with me.

I fell in love with the young woman whom I dated, including knowing about her past. Had our relationship continued to expand into all the things she did with other guys I would not have a problem today knowing about her past.


----------



## I Don't Know

norajane said:


> I was typing as you were. THIS is really what I don't understand about RJ. You know there is nothing good that will come of digging, and you know that it's always going to make things worse for you, so why look for things that you know will make it that much harder not to dwell.


Well, I have to say I didn't really think it was an issue anymore. The last time I felt this was 12 years ago, and I figured I'd grown out of it. I hadn't, at the time of the first FB digging, felt any RJ with her. I was actually looking through her old pictures looking for one to use as reference for a drawing of her. When I found the pictures of them together is when it all started. It was the later digging that I knew better.


----------



## Thunder7

I Don't Know said:


> Well, I have to say I didn't really think it was an issue anymore. The last time I felt this was 12 years ago, and I figured I'd grown out of it. I hadn't, at the time of the first FB digging, felt any RJ with her. I was actually looking through her old pictures looking for one to use as reference for a drawing of her. When I found the pictures of them together is when it all started. It was the later digging that I knew better.


Yup. Hit me 20 years into marriage. There's never been even a hint of unfaithfulness or impropriety. Yet, here I am.


----------



## I Don't Know

SimplyAmorous said:


> I too do not care for the "just get over it already... she is with you Bud" attitudes that come forth on these threads...
> 
> Just from observing others stories....the way men are geared.....I feel some of the most loving / giving men ...with the biggest & deepest hearts for their women ARE the ones who struggle with this issue..it is because they love so deeply and *are sensitive*...in many ways, this is just one (and it can cause a problem & torment him)....but yet....it is born out of the fact he loves so deeply, it hurts to imagine her being with another......so it's very delicate to deal with this...


This is exactly what it feels like for me! SA nailed it.


----------



## samyeagar

Thor said:


> For me it isn't so much jealousy of the other men, but rather a feeling that she is not into me. The comparisons in my mind are in a way sort of mulling over the proof that she is capable of all those things, but not with me. Maybe it is a bit of low self esteem at work when the mental comparisons are made.
> 
> Also probably some insecurity is at play. If she'd do all that with them but not with me, does it mean she might unexpectedly leave?
> 
> For me it is very much a comparison of how she was during our courtship vs after the wedding, plus extending that comparison to what she did with others vs what she did with me while dating. There is a clear difference. She did stuff with other guys she dated, and sometimes quite quickly. She didn't do all that with me even though we dated for 3 yrs before getting married. Then after the wedding she did less with me.
> 
> I fell in love with the young woman whom I dated, including knowing about her past. Had our relationship continued to expand into all the things she did with other guys I would not have a problem today knowing about her past.


What you describe here sounds a bit different than what some of us are talking about, but no less distressful for sure.

With my STBW, I have never felt like I have been slighted, or that she did things with others she hasn't done with me. Perhaps that's because we have such a great sex life, and all of my sexual needs are baing met, and she lets me know quite often that the reason she wants to have sex with me 10-15 times a week is because I have completely blown her mind past anything she's ever dreamed of, much less ever known. Just lasy night she said she wished we could do it more, but knows we just don't have the time.

I do know of a few things she has done with her ex husband that she hasn't with me. She had multiple threesomes with other women in a misguided attempt to control her husbands infidelity. She had herself convinced that if she knew about it and set it up, that he wasn't cheating. It was a self preservation thing. When we were talking about it, she let me know that she really didn't want to go down that road ever again, but would entertain the thought if it was something I really wanted. No, I have never entertained the thought of actually doing it, but her offer...made everything, any feelings of why them and not me vanish.

Yeah, my woman gets it in exactly the same way Mavash does...Doesn't understand it and can't relate in the least, but is a caring and loving partner, and is willing to work through it without judgement,or stubborn defensiveness.


----------



## I Don't Know

Thor said:


> Do you feel your needs are being met? Do you feel you are getting her best?
> 
> I have had some serious RJ issues at times with my wife. I can identify some common aspects when it happens.
> 
> First, she makes a throw away comment about her past which seems as if she has no empathy for how it might feel to hear it. The example about not using condoms is a good one. Yeah it would be crappy to hear that, and she should be more considerate.
> 
> I mean, why did she think of it that way? She is thinking of the past rather than the present. Why didn't she say something like "yeah condoms and oil don't mix"?
> 
> To turn it around, even a compliment could be said in an unthoughtful way. "Wife, you taste so much better than any of my previous girlfriends". I would never say something like that to her because I would think about how it might be taken by her.
> 
> The other aspect of it for me has been that I am not getting all she gave the others. Or, I got it while dating but not after the wedding. So for her to mention doing it in the car or on the beach with other boyfriends is a bit of poke in the eye to me because she has never done that with me. And, she seems to think there is no reason to do it with me.
> 
> If we were having frequent hot sex but just not in the car, it wouldn't be a big deal. When needs are being met there is no need to keep score or make comparisons with previous partners.


Yes, I am getting her absolute best. I have no question of that. There's only one thing that she won't do with me that she's done with someone else. And there's a medical reason for that. 

And not just sexually. She's more affectionate, considerate, and caring than any woman I've ever been with. I know she loves me deeply.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yes, I am getting her absolute best. I have no question of that. There's only one thing that she won't do with me that she's done with someone else. And there's a medical reason for that.
> 
> And not just sexually. She's more affectionate, considerate, and caring than any woman I've ever been with. I know she loves me deeply.


Again, my STBW and I...I know beyond a shadow of any doubt that I have got all of her, and her very best in every way...no one else has even come close.

I think this touches on another part of how irrational these feelings are and why others who haven't experienced this have no clue about what they are talking about when they give advice...There are no feelings of inadequacy, self doubt, low esteem when it comes to her past. I know I am the best she's ever had, and I know I'm not perfect, but have no doubt at all...I'm perfect for her.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> Again, my STBW and I...I know beyond a shadow of any doubt that I have got all of her, and her very best in every way...no one else has even come close.
> 
> I think this touches on another part of how irrational these feelings are and why others who haven't experienced this have no clue about what they are talking about when they give advice...*There are no feelings of inadequacy, self doubt, low esteem when it comes to her past*. I know I am the best she's ever had, and I know I'm not perfect, but have no doubt at all...I'm perfect for her.


Yeah, that's what strikes me as strange. I don't feel any of that either. I just hate thinking of her with ANYONE but me. I don't know why that would bother me. Anyone in my age range is going to have a past. It's not that she was promiscuous, she's only had 7 partners. It's not that I feel cheated, she is everything I want and need sexually and emotionally. It's not that I think she wishes she was with someone else. I just can't stand the thought of her having been with someone else, in any way at all. I know the feelings are not rational. But sometimes they pop up. The only thing that kinda describes it for me is that I want to be her everything. Maybe like I failed her by not protecting her from the A holes? Just a thought.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yeah, that's what strikes me as strange. I don't feel any of that either. I just hate thinking of her with ANYONE but me. I don't know why that would bother me. Anyone in my age range is going to have a past. It's not that she was promiscuous, *she's only had 7 partners*. It's not that I feel cheated, she is everything I want and need sexually and emotionally. It's not that I think she wishes she was with someone else. I just can't stand the thought of her having been with someone else, in any way at all. I know the feelings are not rational. But sometimes they pop up. The only thing that kinda describes it for me is that I want to be her everything. Maybe like I failed her by not protecting her from the A holes? Just a thought.


Mine had in the thirties  I gave up trying to find a rationalization or explanation for feeling like I do. And it is pretty much about sex. I never really find myself remotely thinking about her telling another man how much she loves him, or the fact that she's surely said she wanted them forever. Never even crossed my mind...likely because you can't really form a mind movie from that...


----------



## I Don't Know

Yep, you're right there's no way to explain it. Mind movies are the worst. I don't really do those often, thankfully. 

The feelings it generates are vague and confusing even while you're experiencing them. It's not really jealousy or anger or even hurt. It's a deflated feeling. I usually just call it a funk or getting in my own head.

I had an ex who had a lot of partners, that was tough. To make it worse was that even though she slept (hook ups usually) with so many guys, she didn't seem to want sex with me very much. Talk about a mind f***. That was torture for a 22 year old guy.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Yep, you're right there's no way to explain it. Mind movies are the worst. I don't really do those often, thankfully.
> 
> *The feelings it generates are vague and confusing even while you're experiencing them. It's not really jealousy or anger or even hurt. It's a deflated feeling. I usually just call it a funk or getting in my own head.*
> 
> I had an ex who had a lot of partners, that was tough. To make it worse was that even though she slept (hook ups usually) with so many guys, she didn't seem to want sex with me very much. Talk about a mind f***. That was torture for a 22 year old guy.


That's a really good way to describe it...certainly not jealousy which is why I really don't like that term...such a negative connotation.

My STBW never did the ONS thing. Always within the context of a relationship. We knew eachother for a month or so before we started dating, and had spent countless hours talking and texting and getting to know eachother. Our sexual pasts came out during that time, as well as our wants, needs, and desires. We both agreed that three or so times a week was what our physical need was. With her ex husband, it was 3-4 times a week. We slept together on our second date, and have been holding steady at about 10-15 times a week from the start.

We did have one extreme situation fairly early on that really triggered the RJ to the point of making me physically ill. That is one I have done a lot to work through and with her help, things are a lot better, but I am certain it will not be something I will ever forget.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I Don't Know said:


> I had an ex who had a lot of partners, that was tough. *To make it worse was that even though she slept (hook ups usually) with so many guys, she didn't seem to want sex with me very much. * Talk about a mind f***. That was torture for a 22 year old guy.


 This is part of your past that still *triggers* you...very very hurtful at the hands of someone who is supposed to love you....your & Samyeagar's experiences (with his ex for many years)....has surely contributed *more so* to the stranglehold these feelings have on you...over one who may not have those type memories imprinted on their psyche...

Even when the women in your lives now are NOTHING like your prior ex's... there is just a place that is extra vulnerable...because you have memory.....The old wires getting crossed with the NEW.....almost like a thorn in your side.

(Just trying to imagine what this may be like.)


----------



## samyeagar

The extreme situation from earlier...

My STBW was married to a very sexually demanding and abusive narcissist. He cheated on her multiple times, was physically and emotionally abusive as well. Their marriage finally ended when he left her. She went through a several month period where she was probably legally insane. It was bad. Even though he had left her, he kept finding ways to continue to hurt her, and she finally had enough. She decided to strike back at him and get her revenge in the most hurtful way she knew how. She slept with his son, her step son. She made it a point to spread the gory details to everyone but her ex, and let the news get back to him through the grape vine. Oh did she put on the show too. Sucked him and fvcked him in the back of her car, and she loved every minute of it because with everything she did, it was with a revenge driven enthusiasm of a scorned lover. Every kiss, every suck, every thrust was another knife in the heart of the man who had hurt her so badly.

The reason that all came out? Two of them. So many people knew about it. People we would inevitably be around, so there was a very real possibility it would come up in conversation. THe other reason...the main reason...the most difficult reason...before my STBW and I even knew each other, her step son ended up in jail. His mother lived several states away, and my STBW had promised he could come stay with her for a while when he got out to get his feet on the ground. She made that promise before we even knew each other. THen I came into the picture, and we started getting serious, then it came time for him to get out, and she was forced to tell me. We had a rough several days. 

I believed her completely when she said it was the one time. That there was nothing between them, and she didn't want anything. That the only reason she picked him wa because of the huge amount of hurt it would cause her ex husband, and it was nothing personal about her step son. There were no feelings.

We had several arguments about it. I never once said that I did not wanting him moving in, but I made my feelings known that I was not comfortable with it at all. I think the arguments were really ones she was having with herself. She offered to make sure that she was never alone with him, not because she was worried anything was going to happen, but to ease my mind. She finally offered to tell his mother that he couldn't move in, and I believe it was a genuine offer on her part. I didn't take her up on that. He moved in for a couple of months and there were certainly some awkward moments, but we worked through them. She went out of her way to be open and honest with any questions I had. She was very understanding and validating with my feelings. She made me feel very safe.


----------



## I Don't Know

SimplyAmorous said:


> This is part of your past that still *triggers* you...very very hurtful at the hands of someone who is supposed to love you....your & Samyeagar's experiences (with his ex for many years)....has surely contributed *more so* to the stranglehold these feelings have on you...over one who may not have those type memories imprinted on their psyche...
> 
> Even when the women in your lives now are NOTHING like your prior ex's... there is just a place that is extra vulnerable...because you have memory.....The old wires getting crossed with the NEW.....almost like a thorn in your side.
> 
> (Just trying to imagine what this may be like.)


Well I can't speak for sam, but that would make some sense for me. It would explain why I want to feel desired above anything else. I can see all of that playing in here to one extent or another. That GF was also the first time I felt what we're calling RJ. Thing is I know why she slept around, and I know why she didn't want sex with me much. But it still sucked.


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> The extreme situation from earlier...
> 
> My STBW was married to a very sexually demanding and abusive narcissist. He cheated on her multiple times, was physically and emotionally abusive as well. Their marriage finally ended when he left her. She went through a several month period where she was probably legally insane. It was bad. Even though he had left her, he kept finding ways to continue to hurt her, and she finally had enough. She decided to strike back at him and get her revenge in the most hurtful way she knew how. She slept with his son, her step son. She made it a point to spread the gory details to everyone but her ex, and let the news get back to him through the grape vine. Oh did she put on the show too. Sucked him and fvcked him in the back of her car, and she loved every minute of it because with everything she did, it was with a revenge driven enthusiasm of a scorned lover. Every kiss, every suck, every thrust was another knife in the heart of the man who had hurt her so badly.
> 
> The reason that all came out? Two of them. So many people knew about it. People we would inevitably be around, so there was a very real possibility it would come up in conversation. THe other reason...the main reason...the most difficult reason...before my STBW and I even knew each other, her step son ended up in jail. His mother lived several states away, and my STBW had promised he could come stay with her for a while when he got out to get his feet on the ground. She made that promise before we even knew each other. THen I came into the picture, and we started getting serious, then it came time for him to get out, and she was forced to tell me. We had a rough several days.
> 
> I believed her completely when she said it was the one time. That there was nothing between them, and she didn't want anything. That the only reason she picked him wa because of the huge amount of hurt it would cause her ex husband, and it was nothing personal about her step son. There were no feelings.
> 
> We had several arguments about it. I never once said that I did not wanting him moving in, but I made my feelings known that I was not comfortable with it at all. I think the arguments were really ones she was having with herself. She offered to make sure that she was never alone with him, not because she was worried anything was going to happen, but to ease my mind. She finally offered to tell his mother that he couldn't move in, and I believe it was a genuine offer on her part. I didn't take her up on that. He moved in for a couple of months and there were certainly some awkward moments, but we worked through them. She went out of her way to be open and honest with any questions I had. She was very understanding and validating with my feelings. She made me feel very safe.



I think the issues surrounding your case of RJ is different from other men.
You are lucky to have a woman for a lover who has accepted responsibility or claimed her past and did the necessary work on herself and both of you have worked on your relationship to bring it to the point where it's at today.

In the other cases I've seen here , the person suffering from the effects of RJ are are made to feel as though they alone are the ones in the relationship with the problem, and they could and should simply " get over it."


----------



## Dad&Hubby

I Don't Know said:


> I saw a post by samyeagar in another thread but didn't want to jack the thread. He used the term retroactive jealousy, which I found to be the perfect description of what I feel.
> 
> So, my current girlfriend is 34, I'm 38. She's been married twice. Her first husband was physically abusive, the second was controling and a serial cheater. I've been married once. I know I'm too old for this jealousy crap, but I can't stop it.
> 
> I'd like to know how to get over this or at least manage it.
> 
> I'll give some examples of things that will put me in a funk.
> 
> Being a glutton for punishment, I went deep into her facebook history. Of course there were old status updates about and pictures of her ex husband. It really bothered me that she kept these. We talked about it and she said she had forgoten they were even on there. She deleted the pictures. I don't know if she has or even if you can delete a status, so I just haven't looked that far back again.
> 
> 2 weeks ago I did it again but this time it was not as far back and it was just statuses and a video of the last guy she dated before me. I deactivated my FB account to help eliminate the temptation to do it again. She knew something was bothering me, so we talked about it a little bit. She reasured me that she's right where she wants to be and I am who she wants to be with.
> 
> There's a hundred little things that are like needles, they don't sting so much but they don't help the situation. Things like her saying "when we lived in _______" or "I used to drive a ______ and the mileage sucked" She doesn't mention the ex when she says these things, but I know that's the time period these things would have taken place.
> 
> Last weekend she mentioned that with her second husband she had looked into getting her tubal reversed. Man did that hit me hard. It felt like someone took a butcher knife, put it in a freezer for a week and promptly stabbed me in the gut. I mean, here's a guy that she loved so much she would consider surgery to give him a baby? A guy who was cheating on her! I almost left that night. It hurt THAT bad.
> 
> I know this is going to destroy our relationship if I don't get a handle on it. Even if it doesn't drive me away, she will end up losing respect for me because it's just screaming insecure at her. I've felt this in all serious relationships before and it did eventually stop. The problem is that, from what I remember, I had to shut down emotionally a bit to stop feeling jealous. I DON'T want to do that this time.
> 
> So what can I do? What can I read? How do I stop myself from dwelling on things I know not too?


Why don't you feel you're good enough for her?

Why don't you feel you deserve good things in your life?

You really do need to find a good counselor. You have pretty extreme feelings of insecurity.

First, CARRY this burden. Don't talk to her about it. The old adage "fake it til you make it applies here". Pretend to be confident.


----------



## I Don't Know

Sam, all I can say is damn that would be a tough one.


----------



## Caribbean Man

samyeagar said:


> I would seriously question the empathy of a partner who's response to RJ is simply 'get over it'


:iagree:
lol , I've seen that type of response on TAM , almost everytime this topic comes up.
[ ha , ha . Sorry I'm reading this thread backwards!]


----------



## I Don't Know

Dad&Hubby said:


> Why don't you feel you're good enough for her?
> 
> Why don't you feel you deserve good things in your life?
> 
> You really do need to find a good counselor. You have pretty extreme feelings of insecurity.
> 
> First, CARRY this burden. Don't talk to her about it. The old adage "fake it til you make it applies here". Pretend to be confident.


I don't know. I don't think I'm especially insecure. I have always been a quiet, shy person. Not super confident socially. I know it sounds like insecurity. Maybe it is. 

I'm not the type of guy she would have dated 5 years ago. I guess that bothers me or makes me wonder sometimes, but I'm not worried that she'll cheat or leave me.


----------



## norajane

> I know this is going to destroy our relationship if I don't get a handle on it. Even if it doesn't drive me away, she will end up losing respect for me because it's just screaming insecure at her. *I've felt this in all serious relationships before *and it did eventually stop. The problem is that, from what I remember, *I had to shut down emotionally a bit to stop feeling jealous.* I DON'T want to do that this time.


This sounds like self-sabotage behavior. You only feel RJ in serious relationships, and in order to not feel it, you have to shut down emotionally, which in turn, affects the relationship negatively or destroys it.

Are you afraid of serious relationships in some way? Self-sabotage is very much a sign of having intimacy issues - you subconsciously do things to sabotage a relationship that's getting too close because of your internal fears about relationships, or internal fears about someone getting too close to you or you getting too close to someone emotionally, or you feel vulnerable so try to protect yourself.


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> This sounds like self-sabotage behavior. You only feel RJ in serious relationships, and in order to not feel it, you have to shut down emotionally, which in turn, affects the relationship negatively or destroys it.
> 
> Are you afraid of serious relationships in some way? Self-sabotage is very much a sign of having intimacy issues - you subconsciously do things to sabotage a relationship that's getting too close because of your internal fears about relationships, or internal fears about someone getting too close to you or you getting too close to someone emotionally, or you feel vulnerable so try to protect yourself.


I understand exactly what you are getting at here, and that was a concern of mine for the OP when I first read that, along with the need to dig for information. However, I think from more things in this thread that the OP has said, I'm not sure it is quite as strong as it first seemed, but being aware of the self sabotaging is very important.


----------



## I Don't Know

norajane said:


> This sounds like self-sabotage behavior. You only feel RJ in serious relationships, and in order to not feel it, you have to shut down emotionally, which in turn, affects the relationship negatively or destroys it.
> 
> Are you afraid of serious relationships in some way? Self-sabotage is very much a sign of having intimacy issues - you subconsciously do things to sabotage a relationship that's getting too close because of your internal fears about relationships, or internal fears about someone getting too close to you or you getting too close to someone emotionally, or you feel vulnerable so try to protect yourself.


I don't think I'm afraid of serious relationships. But the protecting myself part does make sense. And I'm sure shutting down has moved the relationships in unhealthy directions.


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## Thunder7

RJ is an involuntary destructive behavior. However, me personally, I have always been smart enough not to pry for too many actual details. It's funny, while I can always remember what we now call RJ being somewhat present in my life I can still recall the 'information' that sent me into a complete tailspin, oh, almost 29 years ago. It was at that moment that I knew I had a real issue. I'm just pleasantly surprised, really, that it never became a factor in my marriage, until about 10 months ago. It would have made those 20+ years unbearable. As I said before, not sure why it cropped up again, all of the sudden.


----------



## Thunder7

On a humorous side note (I thought of this the last time this topic came up in several threads) I actually have a cat named RJ. No, it's not because of this subject matter. And, it didn't actually hit me until a few weeks ago. Kind of ironic.


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## badcompany

You need to work on yourself as many said already. Also, have a talk with her and see if she can work on bringing up the "my ex used to" a lot less. I have suspicious/jealous issues but they wound up being legit....EA's at least......and my gut knew. I never got an ounce of re-assurance from my partner, you did, so there is hope there.


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## Code-Welder

"She is very patient and reassuring with me. She tells me that this is her first relationship that she's felt loved."

You sound like you need to start feeling this way. Seek a councilor, for yourself and her. You have a woman that loves you, learn to love and trust her and most important, yourself.


----------



## I Don't Know

I think you're right, I'm probably going to have to get counseling for this. Last night I did it again. This time she wasn't so patient with me. I get it. It gets old.

Thunder7, speaking of irony. Last night what set me off was a Tshirt from her ex's work. She wasn't wearing it but had before and I brought it up. So, I get up this morning, grab a tshirt out of the drawer and guess which shirt it is. Yep that's right. I just started laughing, looked up, and said "are you kidding me?"


----------



## Thor

Yeah, but why in he11 is that t-shirt even in the house?

Nobody can undo the past, but you can get rid of objects which are direct connections.


----------



## I Don't Know

I've asked myself that. I've asked her that. She says it's just a shirt. I kinda get that. I have shirts that my ex gave me. But the difference is my shirts don't have her place of employment printed on the back. 

God, now I'm going to bring the shirt up again. I know better but it's eating at me. Seriously, if it's just a shirt, WHY would you keep it?


----------



## norajane

I Don't Know said:


> I've asked myself that. I've asked her that. She says it's just a shirt. I kinda get that. I have shirts that my ex gave me. But the difference is my shirts don't have her place of employment printed on the back.
> 
> God, now I'm going to bring the shirt up again. I know better but it's eating at me. Seriously, if it's just a shirt, WHY would you keep it?


Are you going to ask her to throw out everything she used to wear when with her exes, every shoe, every handbag, everything she ever received as a gift, every picture, every bit of her life history? And then gag her so she never mentions one single thing about her life before you, or brainwash her so she doesn't even remember she had a life before you? Will you forbid her to watch any movie or tv show or read any book or listen to any music she might have watched or read or listened to when she was with her exes? Will you never go to Thanksgiving with her family or celebrate Christmas with them because her exes did? Will you never say "I love you" because her exes did? Will she be forbidden to go to any coffee shop, restaurant, park, store, or street that she went to with her exes? Will you make her switch toothpaste because her ex used Crest, too? Will you refuse to eat any meals she makes because she made them when she was with her exes? All so you never trigger, even though you might anyway because YOU know she had a life before you?

I'm exaggerating to make a point about how your requests can be perceived by someone like your gf who might be getting super-frustrated about this issue you have, because she can make all the changes that you want and you will STILL find something else to be upset about. 

I get it that it's just a shirt, but you also need to understand that it's just a shirt.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> I've asked myself that. I've asked her that. She says it's just a shirt. I kinda get that. I have shirts that my ex gave me. But the difference is my shirts don't have her place of employment printed on the back.
> 
> God, now I'm going to bring the shirt up again. I know better but it's eating at me. *Seriously, if it's just a shirt, WHY would you keep it*?


THis is where the art of communication and compromise comes in. It's just a shirt, so why keep it? It's just a shirt so why be botherd by it? Both are equally valid points, but...one is causing a person discomfort, the other is not...unless she actually has an attachment to it, and then that is a real problem...


----------



## norajane

samyeagar said:


> THis is where the art of communication and compromise comes in. It's just a shirt, so why keep it? It's just a shirt so why be botherd by it? Both are equally valid points, but...one is causing a person discomfort, the other is not...unless she actually has an attachment to it, and then that is a real problem...


Anything and everything about her past life can cause him discomfort.

Is I Don't Know's goal for HER to change so she does or says nothing that triggers him, or for the OP to work on HIMSELF, which is where the problem lies?


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> Are you going to ask her to throw out everything she used to wear when with her exes, every shoe, every handbag, everything she ever received as a gift, every picture, every bit of her life history? And then gag her so she never mentions one single thing about her life before you, or brainwash her so she doesn't even remember she had a life before you? Will you forbid her to watch any movie or tv show or read any book or listen to any music she might have watched or read or listened to when she was with her exes? Will you never go to Thanksgiving with her family or celebrate Christmas with them because her exes did? Will you never say "I love you" because her exes did? Will she be forbidden to go to any coffee shop, restaurant, park, store, or street that she went to with her exes? Will you make her switch toothpaste because her ex used Crest, too? Will you refuse to eat any meals she makes because she made them when she was with her exes? All so you never trigger, even though you might anyway because YOU know she had a life before you?
> 
> I'm exaggerating to make a point about how your requests can be perceived by someone like your gf who might be getting super-frustrated about this issue you have, because she can make all the changes that you want and you will STILL find something else to be upset about.
> 
> I get it that it's just a shirt, but you also need to understand that it's just a shirt.


Uggh...I'm not sure whether I absolutely love this post or hate it  Would it be fair for you to agree with me that a balance could be struck between your perfectly valid extremes and him just not saying anything ever? That communication and compromise is the key? That the person with the RJ needs to find coping mechanisms for the small mundane things, and that the partner should be aware and actively try to minimize those mundane exposures?


----------



## I Don't Know

Exactly Sam. I would get rid of anything short of my kids that was causing her discomfort. She wouldn't even have to ask.

Norajane, no I have no need for her to get rid of everything she had when she was with him. But I also don't need her pointing out every thing either. This shirt points itself out.

I don't know. Part of me says it's a shirt, no big deal. Part of me says why wouldn't she just get rid of it? I think I'm damned if I do, and slightly less damned if I don't.


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> Anything and everything about her past life can cause him discomfort.
> 
> Is I Don't Know's goal for HER to change so she does or says nothing that triggers him, or for the OP to work on HIMSELF, which is where the problem lies?


There have been certain things that my STBW has actively gotten rid of since we have been together. Some on her own, some after she learned of my discomfort. I never asked her to get rid of anything. The biggie was a set of pictures her ex husband took while he was at a weekend rally that was basically drinking and sex. The pics were of him and other women, and him doing things to other women...she had kept those pictures for the past four years. I asked her why the hell she was keeping them if they were so painful to her...she threw them out that night.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Exactly Sam. I would get rid of anything short of my kids that was causing her discomfort. She wouldn't even have to ask.
> 
> Norajane, no I have no need for her to get rid of everything she had when she was with him. But I also don't need her pointing out every thing either. This shirt points itself out.
> 
> I don't know. Part of me says it's a shirt, no big deal. Part of me says why wouldn't she just get rid of it? I think I'm damned if I do, and slightly less damned if I don't.


Here's a fun one for you...right after I moved in, my STBW rather excitedly brought out a shirt that still had the tags on it and said she thought it'd look really good on me, and wanted me to try it on. It was a shirt she had bought for her ex husband, and he hated it and never wore it...


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## samyeagar

Like I mentioned earlier, we sleep in her marital bed, and that has caused, and still does on occasion, cause some issues for me. THe thing is, when I asked her how she would feel sleeping in my marital bed, she said she didn't really think she'd care much, but that she'd also get kind of a rush out of it knowing how much better she was to me than my ex wife, and it would be a way to stick it to my ex.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> Here's a fun one for you...right after I moved in, my STBW rather excitedly brought out a shirt that still had the tags on it and said she thought it'd look really good on me, and wanted me to try it on. It was a shirt she had bought for her ex husband, and he hated it and never wore it...


NICE! 

Maybe I can get my ex's engagement ring and give it to her when/if we decide to get married. It's just a ring right?


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## norajane

samyeagar said:


> Uggh...I'm not sure whether I absolutely love this post or hate it  Would it be fair for you to agree with me that a balance could be struck between your perfectly valid extremes and him just not saying anything ever? That communication and compromise is the key? That the person with the RJ needs to find coping mechanisms for the small mundane things, and that the partner should be aware and actively try to minimize those mundane exposures?


I really don't know if they can reach a compromise. If I were his gf, I'd be wondering how much I have to compromise if he's not doing much to work on improving this issue for himself, or if I see absolutely no progress or improvement and only see that every time I turn around he wants me throw something else out or never again mention how bad my mileage was when I used to drive an SUV. That's a lot of stuff I'd have to remember not to mention and I wouldn't want to live my life like that.

It's much like dealing with an angry person who loses his/her temper frequently. Walking on eggshells in order to not set someone off, whether it be anger or RJ, is not a comfortable way to live or love.

If I saw that he was working to try to improve things or deal with things or to desensitize himself, then I'd be much more likely to compromise on little things like the stupid shirt. If all I'm seeing is him asking me to censor my words and erase signs of my life, then I'd be far less likely to compromise because I'd be wondering what was next. 



I Don't Know said:


> Exactly Sam. I would get rid of anything short of my kids that was causing her discomfort. She wouldn't even have to ask.
> 
> Norajane, no I have no need for her to get rid of everything she had when she was with him. But I also don't need her pointing out every thing either. This shirt points itself out.
> 
> I don't know. Part of me says it's a shirt, no big deal. Part of me says why wouldn't she just get rid of it? I think I'm damned if I do, and slightly less damned if I don't.


What is your goal? Do plan on doing anything to address your RJ? Or is it just that your gf needs to get used to it?


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## I Don't Know

I think I'll just keep it in for now. I'll look into counselling, but doubt I can afford it. I really don't know what to do if that can't happen. I can't expect her to never mention her past. I can expect her to not throw it in my face, which is what THIS particular shirt does. She flat out said last night she's not going to throw her clothes out just because it has an oil rig on it. I'm really doubting everything after last night.


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## norajane

I Don't Know said:


> I think I'll just keep it in for now. I'll look into counselling, but doubt I can afford it. I really don't know what to do if that can't happen. I can't expect her to never mention her past. I can expect her to not throw it in my face, which is what THIS particular shirt does. She flat out said last night she's not going to throw her clothes out just because it has an oil rig on it. I'm really doubting everything after last night.


I would look into Cognitive Behavior Therapy. It's short term, so less expensive, and it is designed to help change patterns of thought and behaviors.

What Is Cognitive Behavior Therapy?


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## samyeagar

How about this one as far as clothing goes... I got out of the shower one night, and STBW was in some really smokin hot lingerie. I told her how sexy it was, and she told me she got it at a show girl place in Vegas. The only times she's been to Vegas were with her ex husband.


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## I Don't Know

Wow. I guess it just really doesn't effect some people AT ALL.

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


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## Faithful Wife

My H and I live in my marital house, but almost all of the furniture in it belonged to him when we met. So the bed we sleep in, is his bed he has had who knows how many women in.

The room we are in was once my room with my ex-h.

It is strange at times...we reflect on it once in awhile. We tease each other...any time he mentions the ex-h and my house, I ask him how many women he's had sex with in that bed...then he blushes and we both laugh. We are pretty good about it. We just know that it is what it is and our pasts have nothing to do with each other.

He has always been too kind and classy to tell me any real details that would haunt my brain. He knows better, even when I have asked I only get enough info that I can know what happened but nothing I can make a mind movie out of. He's really sweet like that. He also never asks for any detail he can make a mind movie out of either.

We love each other so much that it is hard to imagine and think about them loving or sexing it up with someone else...it hurts somehow, somewhere inside? Can't even really explain it. 

But luckily neither of us are *haunted* by it nor *tortured* by it. I'm sorry for any of you who are, that would suck for sure.


----------



## Thor

samyeagar said:


> How about this one as far as clothing goes... I got out of the shower one night, and STBW was in some really smokin hot lingerie. I told her how sexy it was, and she told me she got it at a show girl place in Vegas. The only times she's been to Vegas were with her ex husband.


I think this is a great example. YOU would never do that to her, and so it bothers you that SHE does this to you. It is part of the problem. She has a different level of empathy or concern than you do. This is worth you considering, is this mismatch fatal to your relationship?

The second part of this example is that her past is being flaunted in front of you. There are many things which I think should be no problem. Prom pictures from years ago, kept in a box in the closet. Cool. Even a wedding dress from a previous marriage would be ok, kept in storage. These are meaningful items but they are not on constant display.

But lingerie which she bought with and presumable wore for an ex? That crosses the line because this is an intimate part of her past. Of course one wonders what her memories are as she wears it. What is she thinking of when she wears this lingerie?

I don't hear that everything is causing RJ, just some specific things at specific times. Getting rid of a T-shirt should be no big deal if it bothers her partner.


----------



## dbc

i hate the term retroactive JEALOUSY, to me retroactive hurt, retroactive loss , retroactive failure better fits the way it hurts. i have no jealousy issue. i feel that i was not there to protect her, i feel loss in our relationship, and i even feel guilt.
my wife tells me its my problem, i need to get it fixed. tells me look what its doing to our relationship. if she would see that it is a problem that is ours not just mine it would help things out more instead of feeling of isolation and to deal with it alone.


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## RClawson

I had no idea so many here shared this issue. Me 28 years and counting. I see my situation as a bit different (of course).

Dated rarely as a teen because I felt too immature. When I met W it was like I was hit over the head. She was not the prettiest I had dated. She was the heaviest (that was a road I never thought I would have gone down). But there was a connection I knew was rare. She expressed the same feelings for me.

When we were engaged she shared with me that she had slept with someone. We both came for very religious backgrounds and I had not been with anyone. She said it was an indiscretion and no big deal. I was in love so what did I care about something so insignificant.

As things got closer to the wedding I started to connect dots. I found a mostly used pack of BC in the back of her car when I was cleaning it out. I learned that she had kind of dated one of my friends who actually introduced us. The more I learned about their relationship I began to suspect it was him but at the same time I thought who would do that to a friend.............right.

Well after we got married more information came out and she did everything but tell me it was him. I did not press because I did not want to know. Then her sister married his brother and her best friend was married to his other brother. At this point I realized I was never going to get away from her past. To say it bothered me is an understatement. Last summer I finally connected all the dots and I am convinced that I was the safe choice. The ones her parents would be happy with (they have no idea she ever dated him). 

He wanted to marry her but he had dumped her previously and her pride would not let her say yes. The girl he married was someone I dated (not seriously) but in some ways I believe we were both pawns in their game.

I could write a thread as long as war and peace about all this stuff but it really is not even therapeutic. I wish I could stop loving her and leave. I feel for those of you here that struggle with this. It sucks! Thanks for the OCD information. It completely makes sense but once again I do not believe any of the insights here are going to make me more emotionally healthy. It is in front of me all the time. Our lives constantly intersect with his families. His specter is always looming.


----------



## Thunder7

French Fry, what's kinda funny is that we sometimes think, 'how could that NOT bother you'. A strange juxtaposition of feelings. And be glad you don't have to deal with this crap. 

dbc, you're right. It never thought jealousy was the right word. But, when you look up the definition it uses words like resentment, suspicion and fear. I think in certain ways those terms apply. 

Satya, you are 100% correct. RJ is not something that only affects one side. Both parties in the relationship have to deal with it. This is the main reason why, when addressing this topic with others I emphasize over and over again this is 'not her issue, it is yours'. There is no room for blame or shaming someone for something they did before you met. I deal with mine by internalizing. I don't even think my wife knows I have this issue. If someone is lashing out at their partner they are the ones who truly need help.

Remember, it's compulsion, not a logical choice. It is a form of OCD.


----------



## WyshIknew

Not something I suffer from.

Whether it is true or not I don't know, buy my wife has told me I am the biggest, the best she's ever had etc etc.

True? *shrugs* I don't care it makes me feel good.


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## Thunder7

Something I've observed, and even I don't get it, with regards to this topic. I fully understand being bothered to the point of sleepless nights by thoughts of your SO's past. But to go so far as to ask about gory details: how big were your exes, what sex acts did you do together, did he do things I don't do, are there things you won't do with me that you did with him, holy crap! I think I'd eat my gun before I ever got to that prying point. That seems to elevate RJ from compulsion to masochism. Just a thought.


----------



## Caribbean Man

FrenchFry said:


> Well...no.
> 
> I don't understand RJ at all and neither my husband and I suffer from it.
> 
> But I find this enlightening and informative, so I'm glad you guys are here posting and talking about it so people like me can possibly understand and empathize a little more.


FrenchFry,

I have never experienced retroactive jealousy with any woman I've ever been with and before I married I only dated " fast & furious " type of women. I remember there were women whom I was involved with , and we would compare past sexual experiences, " bloopers " included and laugh at each other, and ourselves. That was fun.

The only virgin I've ever had sex with was my wife because I used to think it was below me to negotiate sex with a woman. If I sensed that she was hesitant,I simply moved on to another woman .
Whenever a woman saw me coming around her, she knew I wanted sex. That was my rep, I never really placed value on _sexual intimacy_.

However my wife , early in our marriage did have a bit of RJ , because she knew my rep. Hers didn't get to the point of obsession , maybe because of how we dealt with it. We did it together.
Automatically I put myself in her shoes , and It became clear how she felt and what I needed to do.

Not everyone experiences this RJ, but I do believe that we all have the ability to empathize , especially with those whom we profess to love.


----------



## samyeagar

Thor said:


> I think this is a great example. YOU would never do that to her, and so it bothers you that SHE does this to you. It is part of the problem. She has a different level of empathy or concern than you do. This is worth you considering, is this mismatch fatal to your relationship?
> 
> The second part of this example is that her past is being flaunted in front of you. There are many things which I think should be no problem. Prom pictures from years ago, kept in a box in the closet. Cool. Even a wedding dress from a previous marriage would be ok, kept in storage. These are meaningful items but they are not on constant display.
> 
> But lingerie which she bought with and presumable wore for an ex? That crosses the line because this is an intimate part of her past. Of course one wonders what her memories are as she wears it. What is she thinking of when she wears this lingerie?
> 
> I don't hear that everything is causing RJ, just some specific things at specific times. Getting rid of a T-shirt should be no big deal if it bothers her partner.


I get what you are saying here, and you're right, I am always vey conscious of the things I say. The situation we are in makes it FAR easier for me to do that than for her. We are living in her house with most of her things.

The thing is, in the example I gave, for her it was simply a fact that she stated, nothing more. I really don't think she made the connection until I pointed it out. She got rid of it on her own, and realy hasn't worn anything like that since.

She tends to have a failry unfiltered nature about a lot of things, and is also prone to giving lots of detail when she is talking. Not just about things like this, but about everything. Good example of that was she was giving directions to her mom to someones house and said something along the lines of "Go down the road, and when you come to the stop light, don't turn right like if you were going into town, keep going forward, and then when you come to the yellow house on the right a mile or so down the road, that's not the one you want, it's the grey one on the other side about half a mile further."

Myself, I would have just said "Keep going on the road, and it's the grey house on the left in a mile and a half or so past the light"


----------



## alexm

Those are interesting points.

I feel the same way most people would feel if my wife trotted out lingerie that she bought and/or wore for her ex.

However, I CAN actually see her side of things, as well. To HER, it means nothing. It's clothing, and it makes her feel sexy, and she wants to share that with her partner.

It's all in how each of us, individually, look at things. And she's not looking at it the same way her partner is. Probably never even crossed her mind. And you know what? That's okay.

As long as it isn't, or wasn't, intended to be malicious, then there's no harm, no foul.

However, people with RJ (like me...) don't look at it that way, and we put the burden on our partners who are supposedly "doing these things to us", and not having empathy.

I'll tell you something, my wife has little to no empathy. I do, probably too much. But she's like that with everyone and everything, not just me. Over the years, I've discovered that you can't really change this in a person, so you live with it.

So whenever my wife says or does something that shows little or no empathy for my feelings, I don't think of it as an attack on me. I try to see things from her perspective, which is not meant to hurt me.

It's made things SO much easier being able to see things from her perspective. Which is, ironically, empathy!



Thor said:


> I think this is a great example. YOU would never do that to her, and so it bothers you that SHE does this to you. It is part of the problem. She has a different level of empathy or concern than you do. This is worth you considering, is this mismatch fatal to your relationship?
> 
> The second part of this example is that her past is being flaunted in front of you. There are many things which I think should be no problem. Prom pictures from years ago, kept in a box in the closet. Cool. Even a wedding dress from a previous marriage would be ok, kept in storage. These are meaningful items but they are not on constant display.
> 
> But lingerie which she bought with and presumable wore for an ex? That crosses the line because this is an intimate part of her past. Of course one wonders what her memories are as she wears it. What is she thinking of when she wears this lingerie?
> 
> I don't hear that everything is causing RJ, just some specific things at specific times. Getting rid of a T-shirt should be no big deal if it bothers her partner.


----------



## samyeagar

RClawson said:


> I had no idea so many here shared this issue. Me 28 years and counting. I see my situation as a bit different (of course).
> 
> Dated rarely as a teen because I felt too immature. When I met W it was like I was hit over the head. She was not the prettiest I had dated. She was the heaviest (that was a road I never thought I would have gone down). But there was a connection I knew was rare. She expressed the same feelings for me.
> 
> When we were engaged she shared with me that she had slept with someone. We both came for very religious backgrounds and I had not been with anyone. She said it was an indiscretion and no big deal. I was in love so what did I care about something so insignificant.
> 
> As things got closer to the wedding I started to connect dots. I found a mostly used pack of BC in the back of her car when I was cleaning it out. I learned that she had kind of dated one of my friends who actually introduced us. The more I learned about their relationship I began to suspect it was him but at the same time I thought who would do that to a friend.............right.
> 
> Well after we got married more information came out and she did everything but tell me it was him. I did not press because I did not want to know. Then her sister married his brother and her best friend was married to his other brother. At this point I realized I was never going to get away from her past. To say it bothered me is an understatement. Last summer I finally connected all the dots and I am convinced that I was the safe choice. The ones her parents would be happy with (they have no idea she ever dated him).
> 
> He wanted to marry her but he had dumped her previously and her pride would not let her say yes. The girl he married was someone I dated (not seriously) but in some ways I believe we were both pawns in their game.
> 
> I could write a thread as long as war and peace about all this stuff but it really is not even therapeutic. I wish I could stop loving her and leave. I feel for those of you here that struggle with this. It sucks! Thanks for the OCD information. It completely makes sense but once again I do not believe any of the insights here are going to make me more emotionally healthy. It is in front of me all the time. Our lives constantly intersect with his families. His specter is always looming.


I can somewhat relate to this. My STBW grew up in small town USA where everybody knows everyone else. We are currently living in her marital home in the same area. She has been with thirty or so men, and when we are all together with friends, talking about the past, it's hard to avoid who dated who, and who is with who now, and I have found myself wondering from time to time wit just about every guy I meet...has she been with him...I know better than to ask.


----------



## samyeagar

RClawson said:


> I had no idea so many here shared this issue. Me 28 years and counting. I see my situation as a bit different (of course).
> 
> Dated rarely as a teen because I felt too immature. When I met W it was like I was hit over the head. She was not the prettiest I had dated. She was the heaviest (that was a road I never thought I would have gone down). But there was a connection I knew was rare. She expressed the same feelings for me.
> 
> When we were engaged she shared with me that she had slept with someone. We both came for very religious backgrounds and I had not been with anyone. She said it was an indiscretion and no big deal. I was in love so what did I care about something so insignificant.
> 
> As things got closer to the wedding I started to connect dots. I found a mostly used pack of BC in the back of her car when I was cleaning it out. I learned that she had kind of dated one of my friends who actually introduced us. The more I learned about their relationship I began to suspect it was him but at the same time I thought who would do that to a friend.............right.
> 
> Well after we got married more information came out and she did everything but tell me it was him. I did not press because I did not want to know. Then her sister married his brother and her best friend was married to his other brother. At this point I realized I was never going to get away from her past. To say it bothered me is an understatement. Last summer I finally connected all the dots and I am convinced that I was the safe choice. The ones her parents would be happy with (they have no idea she ever dated him).
> 
> He wanted to marry her but he had dumped her previously and her pride would not let her say yes. The girl he married was someone I dated (not seriously) but in some ways I believe we were both pawns in their game.
> 
> I could write a thread as long as war and peace about all this stuff but it really is not even therapeutic. I wish I could stop loving her and leave. I feel for those of you here that struggle with this. It sucks! Thanks for the OCD information. It completely makes sense but once again I do not believe any of the insights here are going to make me more emotionally healthy. It is in front of me all the time. Our lives constantly intersect with his families. His specter is always looming.


Another example I have of the effect of this...I posted in anothe thread...


STBW had a friend from high school pass away, and we went out that night afte the funeral, and she got completely lit. During the half hour drive home, she told me about a conversation she and her best friend had. Her best friend had never had someone she'd slept with die before and had been involved with this guy, and needed some support and perspective. My STBW has had two. The guy who died and his brother were among the few they had both been with. They agreed that the living brother was better in bed than the dead one, and the living brother was bigger than I am. The were both better than this other guy they had shared, but not this one other guy they had shared.

She didn't remember telling me any of that as she was too drunk, though she did confirm the details so it was obvious I wasn't making it up. Damn, I wish there was a mute button. She hasn't gotten drunk since.


----------



## alexm

It's funny that prom pictures came up!

My wife and I dated when we were teenagers, for 3 years. We were each other's firsts. Halfway through our last year of high school, she broke up with me. I didn't end up going to prom (I live in Canada, so it's not AS big a deal as it is in the US.) But it still sucked.

Anyway, she went with a co-worker of hers that she had a crush on, a couple of years older than her.

At the time of prom, I had been dating a girl for a couple of months (she ended up being my ex-wife some 14 years later...) so I didn't have any jealousy issues. Neither of us had any interest in going for various reasons, so we didn't.

Fast forward 15 years, and we got back together. We're now married, and we moved in about 2 years ago.

Among the items she brought with her was the standard photo albums we all have, including her prom photos. Cool.

However, the guy she went to prom with looked like (and probably was) a male dancer. Again, no problem. Turn the page of the album, and there are several pictures of him topless, posing with my wife and the couple of other girls who were all going to prom. And trust me ladies, he had the type of body you guys would like!

That was not, I might add, the target of my RJ. He could have had a terrible body, and I still would look at it the same way.

I mentioned to her that, although it's totally cool she keep these memories, and I have no problem with it, that I was a little uncomfortable with the topless photos. I told her that there's basically a dozen photos of him, or both of them together, and a handful of him with no shirt on by himself, or with my wife or my wife and a couple of girls on his arm.

I said, in all honesty, these are a little over the top for "memories of prom". I asked how she would feel if I had pictures of my ex, for example, on my arm, wearing nothing but a bra. I agreed with her in that, at that time, it was fun, or funny. But that those photos would likely have gone in the garbage long ago, if the situation was reversed. I forget what her answer was, but she wasn't defensive or anything to me. Just matter of fact.

The photos are still there. I prefer just to ignore the album. I'm over it, and they're not going anywhere, but all the same, it still sticks with me.

FWIW, my wife said she never dated this guy, and I do believe her. They worked together at some store, and she thought he was hot back then (I don't disagree with her, lol!). She was interested, but he wasn't. They ran in the same circles together for a little while, and because she was single at the time of prom, she asked him to go with her, which he agreed. Cool. Does not mean anything happened.

Sadly, I did ask her if anything happened, especially the night of prom, and she said no. Again, I DO believe her. She had no reason to lie about that, it was almost 20 years ago, and I never met the guy.

I know this sounds terrible, but my wife, at that time, was a larger girl. She was gorgeous (and still is), but she was borderline obese, but still curvy. I don't have a hard time imagining that this guy was not into her, as she said. Judging a book by it's cover, I know, but you know... Chippendale-looking guy, right down to the hair and six pack. Doesn't mean nothing ever happened, but I don't see any reason why my wife would lie about something. She's been much more open about other things in her life, so to take this one and lie about it wouldn't make sense.

In any case, prom photos are totally okay, but topless prom photos, perhaps not so much! 



Thor said:


> There are many things which I think should be no problem. Prom pictures from years ago, kept in a box in the closet. Cool.


----------



## samyeagar

When my ex wife was giving me old things after the divorce, she gave me one of the wedding albums, and it promptly went into the trash...never even made it to my STBW's house. My parents have done a realy good job of cleaning up all the pictures they had.

Going through some old albums of my STBW, we ran across some pictures that made me bristle a bit, and we talked about it. I told her about the wedding album as she didn't even know it was given to me. I explained it that yeah, it's my past and I want to keep it there and don't need the photographic evidence to bring it into the present. She has gotten rid of a lot pictures all on her own.

Just to be clear here...I have not once, NOT ONE TIME, asked her to get rid of anything, nor pressured her at all. I am always very conscious of saying anything about things that trigger me, and do pick my batles on that because I do know it's MY issue.

I didn't tell her about and never will tell her about the nude albums my ex wife also gave back to me. Those went into the trash as well...no I didn't post any of the pics online...


----------



## Mavash.

Let me tell you what I've done for my husband.

There are no prom pictures. Gone.

There are no pictures of ex's. Gone.

No school dance pictures, no sentimental items, no furniture, no clothing, no t-shirts, nothing. Gone.

No love letters. Gone.

It's all gone.

I married the love of my life and he is more important to me than any object or picture. 

Fresh start.

I wasn't perfect in that I did keep items for a while (stupid) but over time as I saw he was bothered I purged. 

It was the right thing to do.


----------



## RClawson

Years ago I was going through a box of momento's my mother had found in the attic. I found a few letters an old girlfriend had written me. Understand we were hardly serious with one another and shared maybe a half dozen affectionate kisses. 

My wife came our of her room and asked what I was reading. I told her and she became unglued and insisted I destroy them that moment. I obliged immediately and thought how ironic it all was. Not to long ago we were cleaning out some of our old stuff and I found several cards and items from him. I just shredded them. Fair's fair right? It felt good.

By the way I know that he is much more "gifted" than I. I know way to much about their relationship and trust me I did not inquire. 

Recently she has taken to downloading songs that in my mind are all about them. "You oughta know" (yes she did go down on him in a theater), What hurt's the most (might as well be written about them) and most recently Never gonna let you go (she allegedly hates that kind of music). Thanks for the triggers dear.


----------



## Caribbean Man

alexm said:


> In any case, prom photos are totally okay, but topless prom photos, perhaps not so much!


In my case, I had quite a few pictures of exes , " love letters " or to be more accurate, letters detailing sex acts between myself & them and how they felt at the time , cards and so on.
I had totally forgotten those items were even there in that box.
There was even completely nude photos of exes [ some of the women I dated were models , because I was once a model.] , photos of other women and me all sorts of " compromising " positions, kissing, touching , pretty risque stuff.

One day while cleaning out she discovered them, and tore them to pieces. When I came home she was in tears & pieces , and mad as hell, asking why would I keep them around. 
But I was innocent. I had completely forgotten about that.

Took a while for me to get her to accept and understand,
But luckily,she did.


----------



## Lordhavok

Rclawson, 28 years, damn man, I thought I had it bad, been suffering for 15 years hoping it would ease up, my story is a bit extreme though. Prom, previous marriage, long term relationship, none of these things bother me at all. Its the one nighters, threesomes and whoring that she done that eats away at my soul like a cancer. And the triggers are there on a daily basis. If I dont see something on tv or a movie, my mind will give me a trigger or mind movie to enjoy. She knows it bothers me, or I think she does, I dont talk to her about it anymore, since its not her problem and mine. I just suffer in silence.


----------



## norajane

alexm said:


> However, the guy she went to prom with looked like (and probably was) a male dancer. Again, no problem. Turn the page of the album, and there are several pictures of him topless, posing with my wife and the couple of other girls who were all going to prom. And trust me ladies, he had the type of body you guys would like!
> 
> FWIW, my wife said she never dated this guy, and I do believe her. They worked together at some store, and she thought he was hot back then (I don't disagree with her, lol!). She was interested, but he wasn't. They ran in the same circles together for a little while, and because she was single at the time of prom, she asked him to go with her, which he agreed. Cool. Does not mean anything happened.
> 
> Sadly, I did ask her if anything happened, especially the night of prom, and she said no. Again, I DO believe her. She had no reason to lie about that, it was almost 20 years ago, and I never met the guy.
> 
> I know this sounds terrible, but my wife, at that time, was a larger girl. She was gorgeous (and still is), but she was borderline obese, but still curvy. I don't have a hard time imagining that this guy was not into her, as she said. Judging a book by it's cover, I know, but you know... Chippendale-looking guy, right down to the hair and six pack. Doesn't mean nothing ever happened, but I don't see any reason why my wife would lie about something. She's been much more open about other things in her life, so to take this one and lie about it wouldn't make sense.
> 
> In any case, prom photos are totally okay, but topless prom photos, perhaps not so much!


Hot Chippendale dancer guy with a six-pack who went to a high school prom even though he wasn't in high school and he wasn't into your girl...he was probably _gay_ although maybe not _out_.


----------



## dbc

Lordhavok said:


> Rclawson, 28 years, damn man, I thought I had it bad, been suffering for 15 years hoping it would ease up, my story is a bit extreme though.


i have been married thirty years and it really started bothering me badddd a couple of years ago. before that it bothered me around the 10-12 year mark. seems like the longer and closer we are together the more it hurts.


----------



## samyeagar

RClawson said:


> Years ago I was going through a box of momento's my mother had found in the attic. I found a few letters an old girlfriend had written me. Understand we were hardly serious with one another and shared maybe a half dozen affectionate kisses.
> 
> My wife came our of her room and asked what I was reading. I told her and she became unglued and insisted I destroy them that moment. *I obliged immediately and thought how ironic it all was. Not to long ago we were cleaning out some of our old stuff and I found several cards and items from him*. I just shredded them. Fair's fair right? It felt good.
> 
> By the way I know that he is much more "gifted" than I. I know way to much about their relationship and trust me I did not inquire.
> 
> Recently she has taken to downloading songs that in my mind are all about them. "You oughta know" (yes she did go down on him in a theater), What hurt's the most (might as well be written about them) and most recently Never gonna let you go (she allegedly hates that kind of music). Thanks for the triggers dear.


Old letters are fun aren't they? Like I said earlier, I've never been one to snoop, and haven't. I think the two main reasons why are that I an naturally a very patient person who can easily control my own curiosity, and two, my STBW has been very forthcoming and honest. There is one exception to this. WHen the issue came up with her ex husband going to that weekend of sex and boozing and brought back the pictures, she had them in a box that had some old letters in it as well. I didn't even know those things existed until I asked her what was up one day. She seemed down and upset about something and and said that she had seen on Facebook that the annual weekend was coming up, and so we talked about it, and one thing led to another. I did confront her for keeping those pictures not just because of my RJ, but because it just wasn't healthy and if she truly was over all that, why was she keeping the trophies? Well, she took out the box and showed me the pictures. They were pretty graphic. I noticed some letters in the box as well, but didn't say anything about them. 

After she threw it all out, I did go back and look at the letters. Fortunately, they were not all that bad. Letters from her boyfriend of a year and a half between her ex husband and me. He had gone away to Army basic training, and it was pretty mundane stuff. The only thing that got me was he made a few mentions of how much he was looking forward to getting home and having sex with her on her waterbed. I didn't react nearly as strongly as I feared I would, but it did give me one more reason to want to get rid of that damn bed.

That was the one and only time I have snooped.


----------



## Thor

Mavash. said:


> Let me tell you what I've done for my husband.
> 
> There are no prom pictures. Gone.
> 
> There are no pictures of ex's. Gone.
> 
> No school dance pictures, no sentimental items, no furniture, no clothing, no t-shirts, nothing. Gone.
> 
> No love letters. Gone.
> 
> It's all gone.
> 
> I married the love of my life and he is more important to me than any object or picture.
> 
> Fresh start.
> 
> I wasn't perfect in that I did keep items for a while (stupid) but over time as I saw he was bothered I purged.
> 
> It was the right thing to do.


My wife surely has prom pics and other mementos somewhere. It doesn't bother me. As long as her memories remain fond yet infrequent it isn't an issue. For me it is an issue of her affection to me being in question.

One object which bothers me is a nice cedar chest given to her for her 16th birthday by her 20 yr old boyfriend. When we bought our first house she wanted to put it in the master bedroom at the foot of our bed. WTF? She was very unhappy when I said no way. _She had no empathy for me._ While she claimed the chest had no meaning to her, she seemed very attached to the idea of having it in a prominent place. She was unable to concede it might bother me to have it there, knowing she was bent over it by her boyfriend.

Does she really have such low regard for my feelings that she gets butt hurt that I don't want this item in our bedroom?


----------



## Thor

samyeagar said:


> Old letters are fun aren't they.


I found an old letter from a high school boyfriend. The first read through didn't bother me. I knew about the guy, and it was typical adolescent crap. It did refer to some parties and things which I knew about.

Then I read it again. This time I started to pick up all kinds of little details, and started to put some pieces together. Then I got severely upset, depressed, and angry. The picture was something quite different than the story she gave me when we discussed our histories.

Now there are tons of new questions without answers. I also learned how much she brought into our relationship which were direct connections to previous relationships. A favorite song, which was not _her_ favorite, it was _their_ song. She insisted we get married in a small church near where she grew up. OK, it made sense. But then I read in the letter about how she and he would have sex on a blanket around the back of the church, _next to the door we walked in_ for our wedding.

I read about a number of things she did with him which she would never do with me, such as sex in the car.

Anyhow, finding the letter really sucked for me, though in the end I think it informed me of things I needed to find out about.


----------



## norajane

Thor said:


> I found an old letter from a high school boyfriend. The first read through didn't bother me. I knew about the guy, and it was typical adolescent crap. It did refer to some parties and things which I knew about.
> 
> Then I read it again. This time I started to pick up all kinds of little details, and started to put some pieces together. Then I got severely upset, depressed, and angry. The picture was something quite different than the story she gave me when we discussed our histories.
> 
> Now there are tons of new questions without answers. I also learned how much she brought into our relationship which were direct connections to previous relationships. A favorite song, which was not _her_ favorite, it was _their_ song. She insisted we get married in a small church near where she grew up. OK, it made sense. But then I read in the letter about how she and he would have sex on a blanket around the back of the church, _next to the door we walked in_ for our wedding.
> 
> I read about a number of things she did with him which she would never do with me, such as sex in the car.
> 
> Anyhow, finding the letter really sucked for me, though in the end I think it informed me of things I needed to find out about.


She was 16 when she dated him. 16. How can you be so sick about stuff from when she was a teenager, barely old enough to drive a car, and probably still slept with a bunch of stuffed animals on her bed? She was barely out of childhood.

Do you even remember what you were doing at 16, much less give a damn about any of it? Why do you think that this stuff means anything to her? I can assure you it means much, much, much, much, much more to you than it does to her, if it means anything at all to her.


----------



## samyeagar

It may or may not mean anything, and there may or may not be memories for her. My STBW and I are getting married in Vegas...remember my story about the Vegas lingerie?...anyway, as we were talking about it, both excited, she said she would take me around to all the best places, and I'm cool with that, no problems at all, then she said she knew exactly the hotel we should stay in for our wedding night because it was really beautiful and she loved it. STOP RIGHT THERE! No way to say there were no fond memories there. It was pretty obvious that she didn't put the pieces together about what she was saying. She was just excited about some place she really liked.

I told her we should make our own new memories and I'd like to find a hotel neither of us had ever stayed in before. I didn't tell her that there was no way in hell I was going to spend MY wedding night in the presidential suite her ex husband beat the crap out of her in when he was drunk and lost at the table before fvcking her in the jacuzzi...yeah I'd heard about that one a long time ago when she was talking about the abusiveness.


----------



## samyeagar

Most of the examples given by people here, the partners probably didn't even remotely consider that they could be causing pain. It's not because they are mean or anything like that. They are just being open, and I guess that is a good thing that they are not walking on eggshells. Most of the times I feel the RJ, and I still dislike that term as it is not jealousy in the least, but most of the time, I don't say anything, process it, and move on. 

Notice the number of people here on this thread who have admitted to feeling this way? I have a feeling that many people, some posters here included, that do not know how it feels, or say their partner doesn't have this issue, are in fact with someone who does feel this way, and are simply good at hiding it for the sake of the relationship.


----------



## norajane

samyeagar said:


> It may or may not mean anything, and there may or may not be memories for her. My STBW and I are getting married in Vegas...remember my story about the Vegas lingerie?...anyway, as we were talking about it, both excited, she said she would take me around to all the best places, and I'm cool with that, no problems at all, then she said she knew exactly the hotel we should stay in for our wedding night because it was really beautiful and she loved it. STOP RIGHT THERE! No way to say there were no fond memories there. It was pretty obvious that she didn't put the pieces together about what she was saying. She was just excited about some place she really liked.
> 
> I told her we should make our own new memories and I'd like to find a hotel neither of us had ever stayed in before. I didn't tell her that there was no way in hell I was going to spend MY wedding night in the presidential suite her ex husband beat the crap out of her in when he was drunk and lost at the table before fvcking her in the jacuzzi...yeah I'd heard about that one a long time ago when she was talking about the abusiveness.


Her love for the hotel obviously has nothing to do with her ex since he beat the crap out of her there.

Don't give him so much importance that it eats you alive inside. You're giving him, and any other exes, so much power over your mind and sense of well-being.


----------



## I Don't Know

I'm not suggesting anyone acutally do this. But for the people who suffer from this, especially Sam (because of the abuse), do you think you'd feel better if you could just beat the living sh1t out of her ex?


----------



## samyeagar

norajane said:


> *Her love for the hotel obviously has nothing to do with her ex since he beat the crap out of her there.*
> 
> Don't give him so much importance that it eats you alive inside. You're giving him, and any other exes, so much power over your mind and sense of well-being.


Oh, I don't doubt you there, but I'm not really wanting to spend my wedding night somewhere that I would have to share memories with. I can also just envision the conversations when we get back and are telling everyone all about it, it is inevitable that there will be references to the last time she was there, and again, I don't want to share a place with those memories...especially when we can just stay somewhere else, and build our own happy ones.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> I'm not suggesting anyone acutally do this. But for the people who suffer from this, especially Sam (because of the abuse), do you think you'd feel better if you could just beat the living sh1t out of her ex?


Honestly, not really...but it sure would be nice to hear her tell THAT story about her ex to other people


----------



## I Don't Know

I think it'd make me feel 10 times better. At least for a little while.


----------



## alexm

Lol, perhaps!

Though he did remain friends with my wife's friends right into adulthood, and still to this day. She had stopped hanging out with them by that point, but she still got the dirt every now and again. Never saw him again, and I've never met him, but he does go in the same circles, more or less. 6 degrees and all that.

Guy married, had a kid, divorced some time ago. Could be into men, who knows? I know these things because I asked what happened to him, purely out of curiosity. His best friend married my wife's best friend at the time. He married one of her friends. All part of the same circle my wife was in. She had brought him into this circle. The more I think about it, the more I think there may have been something between them, but meh, 'twas before my time. Pictures still bother me, though. No need for the shirtless ones.

But the friends are still around, even though he isn't in my wife's life in any way anymore, so I think she'd know if he came out at some point. It'd probably be "news" that would spread quickly!



norajane said:


> Hot Chippendale dancer guy with a six-pack who went to a high school prom even though he wasn't in high school and he wasn't into your girl...he was probably _gay_ although maybe not _out_.


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> I think it'd make me feel 10 times better. At least for a little while.


I don't think it would for me. I don't feel as if he has done anything wrong to me personally. Their issues ARE their past issues, and she has worked through them. I don't really feel the need to protect and defend her from her past. 

That said, she knows that I have absolutely no respect for him as a man, and that if he messes with her or us at all, she will need bail money for me.


----------



## alexm

Thor said:


> knowing she was bent over it by her boyfriend.


Devils' advocate, but:

How do you know that was the case? I can't imagine she would have told you that happened.

If she did, then yeah, fair point, I wouldn't want it there, either. But if it's speculation on your part, that ain't cool. It's just an object, and she may actually like it, regardless of where it came from.


----------



## alexm

It may be that she wants to turn those bad memories into good ones, with a good person. Maybe when she went there the first time, with her ex, she had been looking forward to it, and it turned into a cluster ****.

It's still not appropriate, but all the same. It's like facing your fears with the person you love, and having those bad memories turn into good ones. Probably a subconscious thought on her part, if anything.

And perhaps if everything went well, those bad memories would not haunt her anymore.

Again, not appropriate given the circumstances of why they were there. May have been better to do it next time they were in Vegas, you know?

And if you ask me, the fact that she feels comfortable enough to have ever told him about these terrible incidents shows a lot of faith and trust. They are not GOOD memories, she is sharing, after all.



norajane said:


> Her love for the hotel obviously has nothing to do with her ex since he beat the crap out of her there.
> 
> Don't give him so much importance that it eats you alive inside. You're giving him, and any other exes, so much power over your mind and sense of well-being.


----------



## samyeagar

alexm said:


> It may be that she wants to turn those bad memories into good ones, with a good person. Maybe when she went there the first time, with her ex, she had been looking forward to it, and it turned into a cluster ****.
> 
> It's still not appropriate, but all the same. It's like facing your fears with the person you love, and having those bad memories turn into good ones. Probably a subconscious thought on her part, if anything.
> 
> And perhaps if everything went well, those bad memories would not haunt her anymore.
> 
> Again, not appropriate given the circumstances of why they were there. May have been better to do it next time they were in Vegas, you know?
> 
> *And if you ask me, the fact that she feels comfortable enough to have ever told him about these terrible incidents shows a lot of faith and trust*. They are not GOOD memories, she is sharing, after all.


Don't think for a second that this is lost on me. This woman loves me beyond anything. She trusts me completely and is an open book. I absolutely treasure that, which is why I try and control my issue very carefully. I don't want them to mess this up and cause her to shut down because of me.

At the same time, I'm not going to bury my feelings entirely either. That wouldn't be fair to her, and burying in one aspect leads to burying in others, and that is not healthy either.


----------



## Thor

norajane said:


> She was 16 when she dated him. 16. How can you be so sick about stuff from when she was a teenager, barely old enough to drive a car, and probably still slept with a bunch of stuffed animals on her bed? She was barely out of childhood.
> 
> Do you even remember what you were doing at 16, much less give a damn about any of it? Why do you think that this stuff means anything to her? I can assure you it means much, much, much, much, much more to you than it does to her, if it means anything at all to her.


She was 15 when she started dating/screwing him. He was her first lover.

There is actually a long history with this guy whom I call AssClown. He's the one she never got over. He's the one who contacted her on FB 2 years ago, and she fought me hard about un-friending him. When she and her high school friends would get together (when we were in college and then the first 5 yrs of our marriage) she and they would talk endlessly about him and his exploits bedding women, and especially his preference for bedding married women. She and a friend set up a show at the college (he was/is a professional musician) when we were engaged, and she arranged for me to be his f'n roadie for the show (Beta'ing me in front of him).

Even many years later when getting together with old friends, she would spend hours gossiping about him and reminiscing about all the parties and beach trips, which included public sex and perhaps group sex.

This is not the guy in the letter I found, btw.

Whenever we would go to the beach or go to the rockies camping, she would have some story about him. If he meant so little to her, why was he always popping into her mind even years later? If he meant nothing, why then the starry-eyed looks as she and her friends talked about him and all the crazy times?


----------



## Thor

I Don't Know said:


> I'm not suggesting anyone acutally do this. But for the people who suffer from this, especially Sam (because of the abuse), do you think you'd feel better if you could just beat the living sh1t out of her ex?


Beating the guy up does not interest me, but if he had been abusive I might feel differently about it.

The ones I want to smack are her parents. Who lets their 15 yr old date a guy 4+ years older than her? Who sells the family van to that boyfriend? Who doesn't chase off that boyfriend with the shotgun when they see the bumper sticker he puts on it (Don't Come Knockin' When This Van is Rockin')?

I tried to take back territory. Specifically the beach and the car. I talked her into sex on the beach a couple of summers ago. She agreed but was not enthusiastic. We found a dark secluded spot and got the blanket set up. Then she announced "This isn't as fun as I thought it would be". So no, it never happened. I also tried to take the car, but she was spectacularly uninterested in that one too.


----------



## samyeagar

Thor said:


> Beating the guy up does not interest me, but if he had been abusive I might feel differently about it.
> 
> I tried to take back territory. Specifically the beach and the car. I talked her into sex on the beach a couple of summers ago. She agreed but was not enthusiastic. We found a dark secluded spot and got the blanket set up. Then she announced "This isn't as fun as I thought it would be". So no, it never happened. I also tried to take the car, but she was spectacularly uninterested in that one too.


I did get the car back from the step son...it was my first time ever in a car...so she got that first from me...


----------



## Thor

alexm said:


> Devils' advocate, but:
> 
> How do you know that was the case? I can't imagine she would have told you that happened.
> 
> If she did, then yeah, fair point, I wouldn't want it there, either. But if it's speculation on your part, that ain't cool. It's just an object, and she may actually like it, regardless of where it came from.


I know they did it in her room and in her house. It is a reasonable deduction that some form of sexual activity occurred on that cedar chest.

I am sure she likes it. She has described it as a very special gift. I don't know how often she thinks about him when she looks at it but there is absolutely a connection. Like if I wore a very nice watch given to me by an ex, it would have a direct connection in addition to being a nice functional object.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I have one for you all.. imagine this.... not sure how in the world my Grandmother allowed this, but my mother was NAMED after one of My Grandfathers Old Girlfriends...(it was a unique name anyway)..... she has wondered if this may have played a role in his favoring her ....and the contention with her own mother over the years... 

Funny she wasn't kicking and screaming to get that off the birth certificate!


----------



## I Don't Know

Thor said:


> She was 15 when she started dating/screwing him. He was her first lover.
> 
> There is actually a long history with this guy whom I call AssClown. He's the one she never got over. He's the one who contacted her on FB 2 years ago, and she fought me hard about un-friending him. When she and her high school friends would get together (when we were in college and then the first 5 yrs of our marriage) she and they would talk endlessly about him and his exploits bedding women, and especially his preference for bedding married women. She and a friend set up a show at the college (he was/is a professional musician) when we were engaged, and she arranged for me to be his f'n roadie for the show (Beta'ing me in front of him).
> 
> Even many years later when getting together with old friends, she would spend hours gossiping about him and reminiscing about all the parties and beach trips, which included public sex and perhaps group sex.
> 
> This is not the guy in the letter I found, btw.
> 
> Whenever we would go to the beach or go to the rockies camping, she would have some story about him. If he meant so little to her, why was he always popping into her mind even years later? If he meant nothing, why then the starry-eyed looks as she and her friends talked about him and all the crazy times?


Well this certainly puts a t-shirt in perspective. I couldn't deal with all that. To me that's just beyond comprehension. I feel for you and hope you get it worked out.


----------



## samyeagar

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have one for you all.. imagine this.... not sure how in the world my Grandmother allowed this, but my mother was NAMED after one of My Grandfathers Old Girlfriends...(it was a unique name anyway)..... she has wondered if this may have played a role in his favoring her *....and the contention with her own mother over the years...*
> 
> Funny she wasn't kicking and screaming to get that off the birth certificate!


So this may have been an issue for her...

I do wonder how many people are truly being honest when they say things like that wouldn't or don't bother them at all.

Hypothetical...would it have bothered you if your huddy had wanted to name your daughter after one of his old girlfriends?


----------



## samyeagar

I Don't Know said:


> Well this certainly puts a t-shirt in perspective. I couldn't deal with all that. To me that's just beyond comprehension. I feel for you and hope you get it worked out.


But it's the past...just get over it 

This is another PERFECT example of how the past becomes the present, and ones past really never truly is the past.


----------



## Thor

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have one for you all.. imagine this.... not sure how in the world my Grandmother allowed this, but my mother was NAMED after one of My Grandfathers Old Girlfriends...


My son _may_ be named after one of my wife's boyfriends (love letter boy). She fought me on all the names, to the point where our eldest named our second daughter! Nothing I suggested was any good. But when it came to the boy she was totally 100% enthusiastic about this name. It is the same as one of my relatives, so I was ok with it.


----------



## I Don't Know

samyeagar said:


> But it's the past...just get over it
> 
> This is another PERFECT example of how the past becomes the present, and ones past really never truly is the past.


I know you're kidding but I don't even think this is RJ. RJ as I experience it has no rational reason behind it. I think Thor has very valid reasons to be upset. 

My GF had blocked both her exes from facebook before we ever met. She had told her last ex to kiss off when he tried to send her flowers after they'd divorced. After reading Thor's story, I'm going to STFU and never b1tch about it to my GF again.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

samyeagar said:


> So this may have been an issue for her...
> 
> I do wonder how many people are truly being honest when they say things like that wouldn't or don't bother them at all.
> 
> Hypothetical...*would it have bothered you if your huddy had wanted to name your daughter after one of his old girlfriends?*


 Since I know in my heart I far surpass any of his GF's, I am not at all jealous, IN fact I wish he could find them on FB ..I ask now & then for him to look them up..but he can't find them... I am almost  at his mother for NOT taking pictures of those years, but they never had sex he was only like 15 yrs old. Purely PUPPY love ...this not even counting... like "the hot & heavy" you are all talking about here. 

IF I LOVED *the name* (outside of who it was attached to)....and evaluated myself to be superior in his , I do not believe it would bother me ......naming your kid that would even take the sting out of the name -replacing it somehow -this is how I *THINK* I would see it...

On the other hand... IF I felt I was on a lower scale, he loved her more so but was dumped BY HER....and "settled" for me....Oh yeah...this would very much bother me...(this is the primary heart of the issue isn't it)... we all want to feel we are our Lovers "*one & only*".... 

My natural analytical tendencies combined with HOW he treats me ....vs. "her name", how memories affect him, etc - I would be sorting all of this out..... I do believe *my* *reason* could super cede *my emotions* on this issue... Which it sounds the OP and Samyeagar are in an excellent place (maybe more -but these 2 stand out for me reading these posts)...seems you 2 are the Cat's meow for your women!

It is very much a blessing I found my husband as young as I did though...(us both being our 1st in near everything)...because I am the type that greatly cherishes memories , I take alot of pictures and ENJOY looking back....(I guess if I had bad relationships, maybe I would not feel this way though )....so if I had other significant BF's, I am sorry to say this, but I would never get rid of those pictures I took... I would consider that a part of my life, My experience ...and I could see me having a very hard time with an overly jealous man in this regard..

I would be fantastic in reassuring (however, over the top!)....I enjoy that sort of thing... but yet... I'm a memory cherisher too... so I could see THIS being a contention with me.

I would also want to know every living detail of his prior sex life -just because I like to share it all. Believe me, it's a blessing he doesn't have much to deal with -with me... I am a ton like Samyeagar's STBW...unfiltered basically... husband does love this for the most part..why he trusts me so much....though again... it sure helps there wasn't anyone else...(other than one experimental night, age 13... sleeping over at my friends house, me & the brother got a little carried away... embarrassing...I stopped, wasn't sex... husband knows the guy, not a big deal at all...and I touched another boy on that slow ride above the park at Magic Kingdom -about the same age -before him)... that's it to tell ! Pretty boring.


----------



## RClawson

Thor said:


> She was 15 when she started dating/screwing him. He was her first lover.
> 
> There is actually a long history with this guy whom I call AssClown. He's the one she never got over. He's the one who contacted her on FB 2 years ago, and she fought me hard about un-friending him. When she and her high school friends would get together (when we were in college and then the first 5 yrs of our marriage) she and they would talk endlessly about him and his exploits bedding women, and especially his preference for bedding married women. She and a friend set up a show at the college (he was/is a professional musician) when we were engaged, and she arranged for me to be his f'n roadie for the show (Beta'ing me in front of him).
> 
> Even many years later when getting together with old friends, she would spend hours gossiping about him and reminiscing about all the parties and beach trips, which included public sex and perhaps group sex.
> 
> This is not the guy in the letter I found, btw.
> 
> Whenever we would go to the beach or go to the rockies camping, she would have some story about him. If he meant so little to her, why was he always popping into her mind even years later? If he meant nothing, why then the starry-eyed looks as she and her friends talked about him and all the crazy times?


Ok that is just wrong from beginning to end but hey you should just get over it.........................right?


----------



## Thor

RClawson said:


> Ok that is just wrong from beginning to end but hey you should just get over it.........................right?


Ha! That is what I told myself back from the beginning. It was the 1970's when I met her, and I was trying to be all modern mature about things. The era of "good girls" was ancient history by then. All the girls were on this newfangled birth control pill, love was free, and we were told to "Love the One You're With". 

Psychodelic, man!

There was no such term as EA back then. No FaceBook, no cell phones. Just the term "still carrying a torch", and it wasn't considered all that unusual or bad. As long as we lived a few hours away, there was no threat of an affair.

Just get over it, Caveman!

Really though, to be serious, I do blame myself for putting up with all that crap. Being roadie to her first lover should never have happened in any way, shape, or form. I should have called off the engagement that night. Once married, I put up with a lot of crap, too, which ultimately makes it my fault for letting her treat me that way.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I have a question about Retroactive Jealousy...not having read a whole lot about it.....and maybe this is a very stupid question.... but is it ONLY if the woman/man has SEX with the previous lover(s)? After all, it seems on this forum ...the vast majority equate EA's on the same par as PA's ... like there is no difference at all (not everyone sees this the same, however).... 

But is THIS primarily what makes it so powerful, so tormenting.... what if they did NOT have sex..but she was madly in love with him (or her), carried a lingering "torch" into the marriage to some degree (with the spouse feeling they could never quite match up to this figure in their imagination)... but it never got off the heels of an emotional affair... 

Would the jealousy still rage, or it is because he *DID her* in the deepest sense? 

Whether there was love there or not....is it all about *THE SEX* ?? ...which triggers these mind movies ?


----------



## Thunder7

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have a question about Retroactive Jealousy...not having read a whole lot about it.....and maybe this is a very stupid question.... but is it ONLY if the woman/man has SEX with the previous lover(s)? After all, it seems on this forum ...the vast majority equate EA's on the same par as PA's ... like there is no difference at all (not everyone sees this the same, however)....
> 
> But is THIS primarily what makes it so powerful, so tormenting.... what if they did NOT have sex..but she was madly in love with him (or her), carried a lingering "torch" into the marriage to some degree (with the spouse feeling they could never quite match up to this figure in their imagination)... but it never got off the heels of an emotional affair...
> 
> Would the jealousy still rage, or it is because he *DID her* in the deepest sense?
> 
> Whether there was love there or not....is it all about *THE SEX* ?? ...which triggers these mind movies ?


Obviously, SA, I cannot speak for everyone. But, I would guess that sex is what makes this issue so hard to deal with. I know that if your SO was in love/infatuated with someone to the point they can't seem to leave that person in the past, that is a major issue. But with no physical intimacy I don't think mind movies are as easily triggered. At that point I think RJ just turns into a case of one feeling emotionally inadequate. And, if you SO is still hung up on someone from their past, inadequate seems a pretty justified thing to feel. 

With true RJ I'm not sure if that feeling of inadequacy comes into play as much. I could be wrong. Everyone is different. I guess I'm saying I think RJ and sex go hand in hand. That may be primarily because I can 'see' (imagine) my SO having sex with someone else. I can't 'see' an emotional attachment. I can't picture that attachment in my mind. But I can picture them doing all kinds of awful, freaky things together. Whether they ever did those things or not doesn't really matter. I can still 'see' it. 

I hope that made a little sense. I am operating on very little sleep the past few days.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

Thunder7 said:


> I know that if your SO was in love/infatuated with someone to the point they can't seem to leave that person in the past, that is a major issue. *But with no physical intimacy I don't think mind movies are as easily triggered.* At that point I think RJ just turns into a case of one feeling emotionally inadequate. And, if you SO is still hung up on someone from their past, inadequate seems a pretty justified thing to feel.
> 
> *With true RJ I'm not sure if that feeling of inadequacy comes into play as much.* I could be wrong. Everyone is different.* I guess I'm saying I think RJ and sex go hand in hand. That may be primarily because I can 'see' (imagine) my SO having sex with someone else. I can't 'see' an emotional attachment. I can't picture that attachment in my mind. But I can picture them doing all kinds of awful, freaky things together. Whether they ever did those things or not doesn't really matter. I can still 'see' it.*


Thank you Thunder7 for your reply... I was assuming it pretty much just as you spoke it (it is good that the inadequacy comes into play on a lesser degree anyway!)....just wanted to hear others thoughts on the difference, or how it may affect ... so then really..it is primarily about those MIND MOVIES one can not seem to shake....

I was reading this on this link just now What is RJ? ...this man wrote a book about it >>

Overcoming Retroactive Jealousy: A Guide to Getting Over Your Partner's Past and Finding Peace 

- it mentions a spectrum & some may even be hung up on a kiss in 7th grade..



> RETROACTIVE JEALOUSY USUALLY INVOLVES obsessive and unpleasant thoughts and emotions regarding a partner’s past relationships and sexual history. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner went through a “promiscuous phase” involving multiple lovers. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner engaged in different types of sexual behaviour, or had more sexual partners than themselves. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner was once deeply in love and committed to another person. Some people are troubled by the fact that their partner once kissed another boy in the seventh grade (I’m not kidding). Wherever you fall on the *spectrum,* retroactive jealousy usually involves intrusive and unwanted thoughts and mental images, and highly-charged emotional responses concerning a partner’s past.


This part attempts to explain the roots to why men struggle with this more so...



> For men, jealousy in relationships is also linked to our biological compulsion to procreate and ensure the survival of our genes. A partner who is a threat to mate with another man (and thus, carry his genes instead) arouses unease and suspicion.
> 
> The genetic “cost” for a man of raising a child not his own is huge. I could expand on this, but there are many writers on human sexuality and evolutionary biology to whom you could refer who could provide a much better explanation than I. And regardless, in this book I am more concerned with offering strategies for dealing with retroactive jealousy, rather than a comprehensive scientific account of the disorder.
> 
> Suffice it to say, however, that men are biologically programmed to be jealous of other men.


----------



## RClawson

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have a question about Retroactive Jealousy...not having read a whole lot about it.....and maybe this is a very stupid question.... but is it ONLY if the woman/man has SEX with the previous lover(s)? After all, it seems on this forum ...the vast majority equate EA's on the same par as PA's ... like there is no difference at all (not everyone sees this the same, however)....
> 
> But is THIS primarily what makes it so powerful, so tormenting.... what if they did NOT have sex..but she was madly in love with him (or her), carried a lingering "torch" into the marriage to some degree (with the spouse feeling they could never quite match up to this figure in their imagination)... but it never got off the heels of an emotional affair...
> 
> Would the jealousy still rage, or it is because he *DID her* in the deepest sense?
> 
> Whether there was love there or not....is it all about *THE SEX* ?? ...which triggers these mind movies ?


It is a great point SA and why I can not just "get over" it. My wife only had one partner before me. It was extremely intense and turbulent. If she had had sex with 30 no names I really think I could care less. For me it is that she and a friend of mine thought that this was not an important detail to share with me before we got married. I have always felt like a pawn in their game.


----------



## Giro flee

Fascinating discussion, I had no idea this was a problem. Do people ever feel retroactive guilt for their own past behavior to go along with the jealousy? Do you feel the need to erase all memories of your past? Are you able to keep any mementos from past experiences or do you have to throw everything out at the end of a relationship?

I can see where this would be related to obsessive compulsive behavior, I have several family members with that problem and now I wonder if they are suffering with RJ.


----------



## Thunder7

Giro flee said:


> Do people ever feel retroactive guilt for their own past behavior to go along with the jealousy? Do you feel the need to erase all memories of your past?


I would have to say no to that. Of course, that's just one person's opinion. Why? Well, I know all of my past history and I know exactly what it meant / means to me. I have complete clarity and perspective. 

However, I do not know all of my wife's past history. As I stated in a thread I started about this a while back there may have been some deception. So I don't know that. Plus, can I ever really know what something like these past events and memories mean to someone else? Sure, she can say they don't mean anything now or she doesn't think about them at all. But, do I really know that? No. 

So there's the nagging thoughts of not knowing something I thought I knew long ago combined with maybe she's purposefully keeping it from me because it still means something to her. Or, worse yet, it's not just a little I don't know but a WHOLE LOT she's kept from me. 

And round and round we go.........


----------



## SimplyAmorous

RClawson said:


> It is a great point SA and why I can not just "get over" it. My wife only had one partner before me. *It was extremely intense and turbulent*. If she had had sex with 30 no names I really think I could care less. For me it is that she and a friend of mine thought that this was not an important detail to share with me before we got married. I have always felt like a pawn in their game.


I would most definitely feel as you RClawson .. had I been in your shoes, just imagining what you describe here....

The women who was seeking "to be loved"...but never found it, because all the men were basically selfish DI**s...(of course this has potential to cause a lot of emotional baggage on the one hand). This... I would think would be far easier to deal with.... over a ONE TIME intense "soul-mate" experience that couldn't be washed from the heart of a spouse...but yet what could they do... drown in their sorrows, never marry again ...we all have to move on...

So they too carry a form of Jealousy...over their past lovers -into the marriage .... it's an awful thing ..when one might get caught in that triangle. 

If we could just stranglehold our emotions and love who we are with, it sure would make life easier, wouldn't it [email protected]#

But our emotions are what makes us feel alive at the same time... so to numb them in one area... so Experts say...is to numb in other areas as well... we can't pick & choose.


----------



## Thor

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have a question about Retroactive Jealousy...not having read a whole lot about it.....and maybe this is a very stupid question.... but is it ONLY if the woman/man has SEX with the previous lover(s)? After all, it seems on this forum ...the vast majority equate EA's on the same par as PA's ... like there is no difference at all (not everyone sees this the same, however)....


In my case, no it isn't the sex specifically which is the problem.

My wife had a boyfriend immediately prior to me, for maybe 6 months. He was a total loser, and she broke up with him. I know they were sexual, and in fact the sex was pretty much all the relationship was.

He in no way bothers me. I have never had mind-movies about he and my wife. In short, there is no threat there at all, because there was never any serious emotional involvement.

The other two (that I know of) were very serious emotional involvements in addition to being crazy hot sexual relationships. Those are the ones which cause me the emotional pain and which have mind movies.


----------



## I Don't Know

SimplyAmorous said:


> I have a question about Retroactive Jealousy...not having read a whole lot about it.....and maybe this is a very stupid question.... but is it ONLY if the woman/man has SEX with the previous lover(s)? After all, it seems on this forum ...the vast majority equate EA's on the same par as PA's ... like there is no difference at all (not everyone sees this the same, however)....
> 
> But is THIS primarily what makes it so powerful, so tormenting.... what if they did NOT have sex..but she was madly in love with him (or her), carried a lingering "torch" into the marriage to some degree (with the spouse feeling they could never quite match up to this figure in their imagination)... but it never got off the heels of an emotional affair...
> 
> Would the jealousy still rage, or it is because he *DID her* in the deepest sense?
> 
> Whether there was love there or not....is it all about *THE SEX* ?? ...which triggers these mind movies ?


For me the sex isn't so much the issue. I'm not thrilled about her having been with other guys, but it doesn't eat at me. It might be because she's told me her past sexual partners including her ex husbands were selfish in bed. So I know I got them beat there. 

What was bothering me is I can't know the depth of her feelings for them or if she's truly over them. And I think part of it is knowing if they had just treated her a little better, we never would have met. Almost like I could have lost her to them. I know that sounds crazy. 

Funny story. Last night she told me that her last ex filed for their divorce in a county he did not live in. I told her that means her divorce isn't legal and she's still technically married. I laughed my butt off! This I have no problem with, but an old picture or a shirt and I'm dwelling for hours. Go figure.


----------



## RClawson

SimplyAmorous said:


> I would most definitely feel as you RClawson .. had I been in your shoes, just imagining what you describe here....
> 
> The women who was seeking "to be loved"...but never found it, because all the men were basically selfish DI**s...(of course this has potential to cause a lot of emotional baggage on the one hand). This... I would think would be far easier to deal with.... over a ONE TIME intense "soul-mate" experience that couldn't be washed from the heart of a spouse...but yet what could they do... drown in their sorrows, never marry again ...we all have to move on...
> 
> So they too carry a form of Jealousy...over their past lovers -into the marriage .... it's an awful thing ..when one might get caught in that triangle.
> 
> If we could just stranglehold our emotions and love who we are with, it sure would make life easier, wouldn't it [email protected]#
> 
> But our emotions are what makes us feel alive at the same time... so to numb them in one area... so Experts say...is to numb in other areas as well... we can't pick & choose.


Thanks SA. Your remarks are very thoughtful. It is a challenge of course. I came to the realization earlier this year that I felt sorry for them for not being able to overcome their own pride in order to spend a lifetime together. 

Of course this does not make it any easier. Not to long ago My wife told me that she could not really put a finger on what their relationship was all about. I think it is a cop out. She blew it and does not want to admit it. He was a loser when they dated. After we married he got his act together got his Masters and is an educator just like her. They had way more in common than we do and in my mind they are much more intellectually compatible. 

That is just not going to ever change I do not think. On the other hand I had my first Saturday off in months today and we shared the day together and that has not happened in a long time. It was an intimate day


----------



## Thor

Ugh. She moved the cedar chest into _my_ music room. Guests are arriving in a few days and she put the guest bed in her office, and moved the chest out for some added space. I don't go into her office due to the negative energy from that chest. But my own music room?

Tomorrow my son and I will be moving it to the basement for the duration.


----------



## RClawson

Maybe your should just "mark" it as your territory.


----------



## larry.gray

RClawson said:


> Maybe your should just "mark" it as your territory.


Are you thinking of carving your name in it? :rofl:


----------



## Lordhavok

Each person is different and deals in different ways. Some are bothered by a kiss in 7th grade? Yeah, heard of that and talked to some people on forums about it. The difference in men and women are different, and they are not all the same either. Some guys are upset that their lady went out whoring and had alot of one nighters. Women(not all) tend to be ok with their guy doing that stuff, but are super jealous over a previous marriage or a long term relationship. Rj effects everyone in different ways. Some guys go on and on about their wives previous **** fest 10 or 15 years ago, becuase she felt unloved, raped, molested as a child, ect. Some even argue that none of that is an excuse. If she was looking for the dopamine high or wanting that loving feeling from screwing a bunch of different guys, seems like she would have figured that out after the first two or three. It just goes on and on. Some are mad over a kiss, or just a handjob. She would do threeways and fourways ect, but for you all thats off the table. Makes a guy not feel alpha enough or not studdly enough for the big show. Makes you wonder why treat her like a queen when the other loosers treated her like a f*cktoy and they get the big show. Its like just getting the scraps left over from everyone else. 

For me, its the whoring that bothers me the most, not the previous marriage or relationships she had. Thats just me though. There is no age group, or differentials between woman and man, anyone can be affected by it. I knew all the gory details going in, and fell in love anyway. The deeper the love grew, the worse the Rj became. Working on year 16 now and its gotten alot better, but its still there and I trigger often. Sometimes I wonder if I should have run instead.


----------



## Thunder7

Lordhavok said:


> Each person is different and deals in different ways. Some are bothered by a kiss in 7th grade? Yeah, heard of that and talked to some people on forums about it. The difference in men and women are different, and they are not all the same either. Some guys are upset that their lady went out whoring and had alot of one nighters. Women(not all) tend to be ok with their guy doing that stuff, but are super jealous over a previous marriage or a long term relationship. Rj effects everyone in different ways. Some guys go on and on about their wives previous **** fest 10 or 15 years ago, becuase she felt unloved, raped, molested as a child, ect. Some even argue that none of that is an excuse. If she was looking for the dopamine high or wanting that loving feeling from screwing a bunch of different guys, seems like she would have figured that out after the first two or three. It just goes on and on. Some are mad over a kiss, or just a handjob. She would do threeways and fourways ect, but for you all thats off the table. Makes a guy not feel alpha enough or not studdly enough for the big show. Makes you wonder why treat her like a queen when the other loosers treated her like a f*cktoy and they get the big show. Its like just getting the scraps left over from everyone else.
> 
> For me, its the whoring that bothers me the most, not the previous marriage or relationships she had. Thats just me though. There is no age group, or differentials between woman and man, anyone can be affected by it. I knew all the gory details going in, and fell in love anyway. The deeper the love grew, the worse the Rj became. Working on year 16 now and its gotten alot better, but its still there and I trigger often. Sometimes I wonder if I should have run instead.


Good explanation about how RJ runs the gamut and does not manifest itself the same way in any two people.


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## Thor

RClawson said:


> Maybe your should just "mark" it as your territory.


I thought about bending her over it last year as part of taking back territory, until....

Short version: 28 yrs ago she wanted it in our bedroom in our first house. I said no way, she pouted and put it in the basement. Five yrs ago she put it in D16's bedroom after redecorating. It didn't bother me. One yr ago she converted bedroom into her office, kept the hope chest there. Didn't bother me _much_.

Then I realized the dates didn't add up. Boyfriends, ages, when they dated, when she got the chest (sweet 16 birthday). Upon re-reading a long love letter in her high school yearbook from a different bf I realized her history was very different than she had told me. I discovered she was pregnant at 17 (not by AssClown). I found specific and non-specific allusions to all kinds of escapades.

All of those issues are now attached to the hope chest in addition to everything specific to AssClown.

I'm thinking the best way to mark this territory is to use it as kindling to burn out an old stump in the yard.
:FIREdevil:


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## Mavash.

Thor said:


> I'm thinking the best way to mark this territory is to use it as kindling to burn out an old stump in the yard.
> :FIREdevil:


Totally agree.


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## Thor

I am seriously thinking about it.


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## norajane

Thor said:


> I am seriously thinking about it.


She's had that chest for over 30 years. You may end up starting WW3 if you do that.


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## Thor

But, she claims, the chest means nothing to her other than being a nice piece of furniture. We can afford to buy something nice which is ours, without the ghosts to replace it.

If it means so little to her, and is such a thorn in my side, she should welcome the chance to remove this issue from our relationship for good. She should welcome making new bonds between us.
[/sarcasm mode off]

Somehow though I think her selfishness and lack of empathy will reign.


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## Mavash.

Can the dumb chest go in her parents attic or something?

Right next to the school yearbooks and baby books.


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## samyeagar

Mavash. said:


> Can the dumb chest go in her parents attic or something?
> 
> Right next to the school yearbooks and baby books.


And the other letters he hasn't seen...

It really seems to me that she may be enjoying this, and almost turning it into a power trip. Very immature and unhealthy for the relationship.


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## Thor

samyeagar said:


> And the other letters he hasn't seen...
> 
> It really seems to me that she may be enjoying this, and almost turning it into a power trip. Very immature and unhealthy for the relationship.


I do wonder why she did this. There is no way she does not remember the issues with the chest. There is no way she does not remember the issues of this guy in our relationship. There is no way she doesn't remember the conflict when I asked her to unfriend him from Facebook.

The music room is my _sanctuary_.

Music is also a big part of the issue with AssClown. There is no way she does not remember the discussions about this part. The show she set up at college, her arranging for me to be his roadie (yes I was unbelievably stupid). Me inviting her to a show I played about a year ago, and thanking her when she showed up. Music is integral to the issues with AssClown.

Either she has zero consideration and empathy, or it was a provocation. Or both.


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## samyeagar

Thor said:


> I do wonder why she did this. There is no way she does not remember the issues with the chest. There is no way she does not remember the issues of this guy in our relationship. There is no way she doesn't remember the conflict when I asked her to unfriend him from Facebook.
> 
> The music room is my _sanctuary_.
> 
> Music is also a big part of the issue with AssClown. There is no way she does not remember the discussions about this part. The show she set up at college, her arranging for me to be his roadie (yes I was unbelievably stupid). Me inviting her to a show I played about a year ago, and thanking her when she showed up. Music is integral to the issues with AssClown.
> 
> Either she has zero consideration and empathy, or it was a provocation. Or both.


This isn't RJ, these are the hidden injuries of emotional abuse.


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## famethrowa

Hey guys, if you're still suffering from this I suggest you check out this great book I found on it: helped me get over retroactive jealousy really quickly


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