# Those that stayed, what would you have done in hind sight?



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Thought this might help those going through hell on earth to help make a decision. Good or bad, all will help.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

We all stayed - until we didn't. Can you narrow down the topic a bit?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

ABHale said:


> Thought this might help those going through hell on earth to help make a decision. Good or bad, all will help.


I would have taken a few more weeks to make my decision while she was put out of the house. Better for me to contemplate, better for her to more fully absorb the possible consequences.

I would not have accepted any blame, like I did initially.

I would have been more succinct in stating what my expectations were.

I would have avoided the hysterical bonding until till she had an STD test. 

Basically, I should have tested her remorse to the fullest - and I didn't at first. The mistakes I made effect my mind - as regret for not handling things perfectly, more than they have our current relationship. But I try to remind myself that almost every BS makes some mistakes, especially if they decide to R. And that 5 and a half years into R, so far, it looks like I made the right choice - for me.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I assume you mean staying in a bad relationship. It always amuses me when people post assuming we know what they are thinking. In another forum I see a lot of sex and romance questions where people do not give their age or gender. I never know if it is a 13 year old virgin girl or a 17 year old guy, asking so I avoid answering.

Assuming you mean a relationships, I left my ex fiancee immediately upon finding out she cheated. I know that people seldom change and their past behavior is a very good indicator of their future behavior. Plus all the people I knew who cheated, kept on cheating even though they promised that they would not. My gut feeling saved the day for me. 

My ex fiancee went on to cheat on the guy she cheated on me with. Then she had mental problems, joined a commune where she was passed from person to person stoned out of her mind and drugged on LSD. She got out of there only because the commune broke up. She started seeing angels and talking to them. One told her to do things and she did them. She thought she could see your future through her angels. She had a kid from no one knows who and found a guy who needed a green card to marry. She cheated on him too and finally married a woman who is much older than she is. She called me 47 year later to apologize and told me how lousy her life had been up to the point she married her wife. She went on to tell me how different things might have been had she not been so immature and cheated on me. I told her that sometimes just one thing we do wrong, can dictate the rest of your life. For her it was cheating. For me it was her cheating because had I married her as planned, I would never have met my wonderful wife who I proposed to 3 weeks after we met and are still married 44+ years later.

The second girlfriend who cheated on me and that I dumped, went on to a fantastic life of being a crack addicted prostitute. When she cleaned up after serving jail time, she became a stripper and married one of her steady lap dance customers who had some money, but was 11 years older than her. She emailed me once and told me that she was visiting her crack addicted daughter to try to get her to quit drugs. Another decision not to believe a cheating woman saved the day for me.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

Too many bad decisions to list... But here's a few of my 'corrections'

-Get in counseling - both parties - immediately. MC and IC.
-Take the counseling seriously. I ignored the initial requests to work on meditation, thought it was stupid. I didn't start to heal until I began that process in earnest.
-Learn to deal with anger more effectively.
-Take more time for myself.
-Been more forgiving to myself. This goes hand in hand with the meditation, and allows you to begin extending forgiveness to others.
-Thrown out all the alcohol in the house so it can't be used as a crutch
-Research things before flying off the handle. Get solid proof or solid 'lack of proof' first.
-Stay off internet marriage boards 

badmemory is right. All BS make mistakes. This was my first time dealing with this issue, so mistakes were expected. That's where the self forgiveness is key.


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## katies (May 19, 2015)

I would have filed for divorce when I caught him in the act the second time. I would have gone dark for a week. And then let him figure out how to get me back. 
However, I was a Basket case and didn't do any of this.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A lady I know who stayed with her husband after discovering his years long affair stayed with him, but gradually sank into depression and eventually killed herself. So so sad. I wish she had left.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

No, any example of the things that worked or didn't. 

Good R or bad R. 

Anything that might help someone make a decision in their situation. 

Why things worked. 

Why they didn't. 

If the WS actions during R helped or not.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

1. I should have left 18 years ago when he cheated the first time, i might have saved myself many years of misery 
2. Got counselling instead of trying to handle everything myself
3. joined Al-Anon and made the kids join when they were younger, though those facilities were not available in the countries we lived in
4. Not given up my career to support his career
5. Told my family about the hell he was putting me through, they were in another country. I told his mum, she helped but still covered things up for the most part esp his drinking and behaviour


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

badmemory said:


> *I would have avoided the hysterical bonding until till she had an STD test. *


Yep, me too. In retrospect, that was dumb. She initially swore AP had used a condoms... Righttttt? In the end there had been 3 AP, years off and on cheating, and not the first thought of any kind of birth control. 

Talk about rolling the dice?


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## fleek (Jul 20, 2016)

I would not have gone to MC right after the discovery. That was a huge mistake. Massive setback and therapy assisted blameshifting. 

I would have filed for D instead. Even if I stopped it later, I wish I would have filed.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I would have cut back on my drinking alcohol and not had a revenge affair.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

MovingFrwrd said:


> Too many bad decisions to list... But here's a few of my 'corrections'
> 
> -Get in counseling - both parties - immediately. MC and IC.
> -Take the counseling seriously. I ignored the initial requests to work on meditation, thought it was stupid. I didn't start to heal until I began that process in earnest.





fleek said:


> I would not have gone to MC right after the discovery. That was a huge mistake. Massive setback and therapy assisted blameshifting.
> 
> I would have filed for D instead. Even if I stopped it later, I wish I would have filed.


You two seems to have different views regarding MC, so I guess it depends on situation. Can each of you put more details/reasons? Thanks


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

bbad said:


> You two seems to have different views regarding MC, so I guess it depends on situation. Can each of you put more details/reasons? Thanks



I can only suggest it in hindsight to my situation. I'm working at R now, and in my situation probably should have worked harder at MC and IC. I didn't take it as seriously as I should, for some reason my emotions were all jumbled and I was filled with anger, hate, confusion, to name a few. My first IC counselor was a joke now that I reflect on it. She was a nurse practitioner who specialized in behavioral therapy, and had the standard book responses with very little direction of how to truly help. I finally found a good guy local to me, out of insurance network, and have been seeing him regularly.

Our MC counselor I thought was very good, but I took the mindset that I was a good husband who didn't deserve this, and my wife had to atone. As you go through R, you realize how toxic that mindset is to recovery. Heck, how toxic it is for any marriage (regardless of adultery) if either spouse had that mindset towards the other. 

Counseling is only a guide to help yourself. You've got to do all the heavy lifting, but it helps to have someone be empathetic and understand your situation.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

I think MovingFrwrd thread is a must read for anyone asking your question. It is long, but if you read it, then read twice more you will e a wiser person. 

I think RiverRat threads are a must read. Wish I knew him personally. Worth reading them multiple times.

I think Drifting On threads and posts are worth reading multiple times. 

Two of these posters reconciled, one divorced. They all have one thing in common: the journey not the outcome sometimes is the important point.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I stayed, and am fine with my decision. However, there are things I did during the process that I would have changed for sure. I wouldn't have been so conciliatory with the OM when I reached out to him once the dust settled. I go back and read that email now and want to puke on myself. Also, there were a couple of times when leaving the home for a few days to go dark would have done wonders for my mental and physical health. Instead I stubbornly stayed and stewed, or pulled her into arguments. 

Even though I'm generally satisfied at home now, 5-6 years later, I'd feel a bit better about myself deep inside if I had done those couple of things differently.


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## drifter777 (Nov 25, 2013)

I stayed and hate myself for it. I've tried to rationalize staying in the marriage to myself over and over again but the bottom line is I was a coward and will hate myself forever for not leaving.


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## bbad (Feb 11, 2017)

JohnA said:


> I think MovingFrwrd thread is a must read for anyone asking your question. It is long, but if you read it, then read twice more you will e a wiser person.
> 
> I think RiverRat threads are a must read. Wish I knew him personally. Worth reading them multiple times.
> 
> ...


I couldn't find the thread started by MovingFrwd, in fact he only started one "hello" thread with no response. I haven't tried others, but if you know where they are, can you give a link here? Thanks


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

It has been over a year since I have been on here and thought I might give my 2 cents.

I had started the paperwork for D. My wife knew it and I would not give her any information about my attorney, etc. My oldest son is disabled and he wanted to get away from his mother for a weekend. So I found a retreat, rented him a cabin. My wife came along for the ride (unusual for her at that point). Our youngest son had stopped talking to his mother, my oldest was p*ssed. Her family who she was very close was no longer talking to her. Her three brothers were supporting me and her two older sisters stopped talking to her (even the middle one who supported her for a while during her A's). So we drove over an hour to the retreat place, got his cabin set up and I helped him with his fishing gear and we built a fire and then left. 

On the ride home I asked my wife a question (we were not talking much at this time). She all of the sudden opened up and told me she did not want a D. She told me later that when I asked the question (I don't remember it), she said it cut her like a knife. She said she sat there thinking that she was on a train going straight to hell and this is her opportunity to get off the train. So she started giving me information about the A. When we got home she went upstairs to her bedroom and said come up and she handed me her computer, gave me her accounts and PWs and said I have nothing to hide I want to work this out. I never got her burner phone, she claims she got rid of it a few days prior to this.

I still had to work through some things about D.

When I finally decided on R I gave my wife a paper on what the BS needs from the WS. She read it over and over.

I gave her demands:
1. That she never ever puts her family before me. 
2. That she answers all my questions.
3. There were others.

She was doing all of this (there was one lie that set me off) fairly well. Then in a few short months she got very ill. I spent nearly the next two years caring for a very ill woman, to the point of having to carry her to the toilet for weeks on end.

She is better since early 2015 but is about 50% of what she was before her illness. No sex. I am very capable, she is not. I live with it. I really lost interest in having any desire for her. 

There was one or two instances of where she started to put her family before me and I put my foot down and told her there is the door, if you leave, don't come back. One instance she was mad for a day and then started crying and apologized.

She did quite a bit of heavy lifting and continues to do so, even being ill. For example, she drove 6 hours round trip to get my truck fixed on her own, so I would not have to do this last year and I did not ask her to do it. I know it was a pain, but she willingly did it.

She does not get angry or annoyed if I ask to look at her phone. I rarely do this. 

We travel when we can, but not as much as we use to do, due primarily to her illness. She tires easily.

Our marriage is sexless due to her illness.

She always asks my opinion when it comes to family issues or her family issues. She respects my views.

She finally sees what a bad influence her next older sister was on her life. During the A's they were basically joined at the hip. Now my wife is at the point of almost total annoyance. She is only 56 years old and my wife and I are predicting that she will be in a nursing home in the next year or so. She acts like a woman that is 110 years old. I help support her financially as she is a widow, I tolerate her, but I really don't care for her much. During the A's if I said anything negative about this S-I-L my wife would defend her. Not the case anymore. In fact my wife came to me last night asking my opinion on how to handle a situation with her sister and she followed my advice.

I am fully retired from the Army (after 33 years). Still work for the Feds. and am enjoying it.

Got a newer crew cab PU (bought it when I retired from the Army). My gift to myself. My wife did not complain.

One half of my two car garage is filled with American Chestnut beans and boards from an old corn crib. I have a number of projects to do with the wood. Bought some more woodworking equipment.

Working slowly on my family's genealogy. Got quite a bit of my four grandparents lines. One to 1150 A.D. in Germany; another to 1400's in Switzerland; another to the 1500's in Germany and one going back to Scotland, but I am stuck on some things. I plan to write a book once I get copies of deeds, birth certificates, etc. 

My wife respects me. Something I can say she never really ever did prior to R.

One more thought. I am not the same. I still have pain and have somewhat distanced myself from my wife emotionally and physically. But I will never let myself go through what I went through. In hindsight if I had known in 1999 when she had her first A that she would do it again in 2010, 2011 through 2013, I would have D her and not looked back.


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## MovingFrwrd (Dec 22, 2015)

bbad said:


> I couldn't find the thread started by MovingFrwd, in fact he only started one "hello" thread with no response. I haven't tried others, but if you know where they are, can you give a link here? Thanks


My thread was moved to the private members section per my request some time ago. When you hit the minimum post limit, you'll find it there, "Struggling to Forget"


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Thorburn said:


> It has been over a year since I have been on here and thought I might give my 2 cents.
> 
> I had started the paperwork for D. My wife knew it and I would not give her any information about my attorney, etc. My oldest son is disabled and he wanted to get away from his mother for a weekend. So I found a retreat, rented him a cabin. My wife came along for the ride (unusual for her at that point). Our youngest son had stopped talking to his mother, my oldest was p*ssed. Her family who she was very close was no longer talking to her. Her three brothers were supporting me and her two older sisters stopped talking to her (even the middle one who supported her for a while during her A's). So we drove over an hour to the retreat place, got his cabin set up and I helped him with his fishing gear and we built a fire and then left.
> 
> ...


It is very good to hear from you, @Thorburn.

Don't be a stranger, brother.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

farsidejunky said:


> It is very good to hear from you, @Thorburn.
> 
> Don't be a stranger, brother.


fvckin' A.

Thorburn's plight was epic and tough. Had such a tough road. Sorry about her health and the no sex. I don't need as much sex as I used to, but once in awhile it's just got to happen or I'll burst.

Just do you, bud.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

Vinnydee said:


> I assume you mean staying in a bad relationship. It always amuses me when people post assuming we know what they are thinking. In another forum I see a lot of sex and romance questions where people do not give their age or gender. I never know if it is a 13 year old virgin girl or a 17 year old guy, asking so I avoid answering.
> 
> Assuming you mean a relationships, I left my ex fiancee immediately upon finding out she cheated. I know that people seldom change and their past behavior is a very good indicator of their future behavior. Plus all the people I knew who cheated, kept on cheating even though they promised that they would not. My gut feeling saved the day for me.
> 
> ...


I struggle to reconcile this post with one you made on another thread just tonight where you stated that it would be a huge mistake for a WS to reveal an affair to a BS.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Hope Shimmers said:


> I struggle to reconcile this post with one you made on another thread just tonight where you stated that it would be a huge mistake for a WS to reveal an affair to a BS.


LOL.

Don't try.


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## BURNT KEP (Oct 3, 2012)

ABHale said:


> Thought this might help those going through hell on earth to help make a decision. Good or bad, all will help.


I would have left.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Hope Shimmers said:


> I struggle to reconcile this post with one you made on another thread just tonight where you stated that it would be a huge mistake for a WS to reveal an affair to a BS.


 @Thorburn would you say that you would rather have never known that your wife was cheating on you?

I have a friend who was cheated on multiple times by two of his wives. We had a discussion about knowing one's spouse is cheating and he gave me a pained look of almost terror saying that it's much better to never know. He was adamant about it. He would have much rather never have known that his wives were cheating on him. I also know this man to be someone who would rather live in ignorant bliss than deal with reality sometimes. This is not an insult. He's a good friend, but he looks at life differently than I do.

A main theme of my life is to live in truth. This can drive my friends and family a little crazy sometimes, because I tend to dig a little too deep sometimes. 

So along with the theme of this thread, what do the rest of you think? Would you rather that your spouse would have turned away from their adulterous behavior, found the character flaw that led them to the adulterous behavior, and work through it with a therapist in private without you ever having known or would you rather your spouse tell you the truth and work through repentance with their therapist and with you?


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> So along with the theme of this thread, what do the rest of you think? Would you rather that your spouse would have turned away from their adulterous behavior, found the character flaw that led them to the adulterous behavior, and work through it with a therapist in private without you ever having known or would you rather your spouse tell you the truth and work through repentance with their therapist and with you?


Unfortunately these aren't the only two possible outcomes, though. A third, and perhaps more common, would be that the WS continues to cheat and the BS continues to live with his/her head in the sand.

I used to be of the opinion that it wasn't anyone's business except the BS and WS and that because you can never know what the BS really wants, he/she shouldn't be told by a third party. After all, you can't un-ring a bell. I have, however, done a 180 and I believe the best thing to do is tell the BS the reality of their life and let them make an informed choice.

It is the WS that is putting the BS in this difficult position. If the BS doesn't want to know, and he or she is told, that's on the WS because the WS is the one who caused the situation and the hurt in the first place. Statistically, most BS would want to know, no matter who told them. I know I would.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Hope Shimmers said:


> Unfortunately these aren't the only two possible outcomes, though. A third, and perhaps more common, would be that the WS continues to cheat and the BS continues to live with his/her head in the sand.


Right, but that wasn't the question. I wasn't assuming only two possibilities. I was asking of these two possibilities, which would you rather? It is rare that a WS quits cheating, becomes sincerely introspective and wants to make a change. Usually what happens is that the WS is acting strangely, so the BS starts investigating and finds out the truth. Or the BS never knows anything about the cheating. 

The reason I asked the question is that this thread assumes reconciliation, which hopefully means the WS has become repentant. What if the WS had repented of their own accord and not had to be caught before coming to their senses? Would it be better to not know? For me that's a hard question, because I am a truth seeker. Would I rather have my heart ripped out by knowing or be blissfully ignorant? I thought this was relevant to the thread, but now I think I'm way off topic.



Hope Shimmers said:


> I used to be of the opinion that it wasn't anyone's business except the BS and WS and that because you can never know what the BS really wants, he/she shouldn't be told by a third party. After all, you can't un-ring a bell. I have, however, done a 180 and I believe the best thing to do is tell the BS the reality of their life and let them make an informed choice.
> 
> It is the WS that is putting the BS in this difficult position. If the BS doesn't want to know, and he or she is told, that's on the WS because the WS is the one who caused the situation and the hurt in the first place. Statistically, most BS would want to know, no matter who told them. I know I would.


I agree.


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## Secondguessing (Mar 6, 2017)

I stayed and tried to reconcile for 2 years but I could not get past the anger and a total and complete lack of trust. She couldn't walk out the door without me suspecting she was up to something. I remember when I told my mom I was going divorce, her attitude seemed to be it was my fault for not being able to trust my wife or, as she put it, "let it go."

Anyway, I'm glad I stayed for a year - she was able to finish her degree and find a job, which is to my advantage. I egret staying the second year. I consider that a totally wasted year.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

@Thorburn would you say that you would rather have never known that your wife was cheating on you?

I am not saying that at all. I wish I would have taken Weightlifter's advice and not listen to the recording of her having sex with someone else and had rather sent it or gave it to someone else to tell me. That recording plays in my mind from time to time.

For me the better situation would had been if my wife simply said I done with the marriage and I am going to look for someone else. She did want the best of both worlds, the security I gave her, and the fun the OM's gave her.

I would want to know and wanted to know. The first time in 1999 my boys were young (around 10 and 12) and they knew before I did.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

This is a difficult question to answer, as hind sight is 20/20. It would have been great if we could see the future, see if you appear happy or just surviving. Of course this is not reality and after we choose, the work begins. Trying to answer this question is something that will take time and many many words. It would be easy to say, no, I chose correctly, and end your answer. But in my opinion one learns very little from that answer, and I don't think that is why it was asked.

I chose to stay, went in to IC and began to work on myself. We were already in MC and it was very obvious my wife and I needed IC. IC had me realize how much work I needed to do for myself. Working on me was difficult, it's very hard to truly examine yourself and correct your flaws. Discovering how your flaws affected you was also difficult, but addressing them and repairing these flaws changes you. But the hardest part of IC, was being able to set aside what had brought me here, the I did nothing wrong. The betrayed spouse has to put the affair aside to truly reflect on themselves, and for the best possible healing to be healthy. 

Looking back now I would have done the above regardless, but I most definitely made many mistakes. I confronted too soon, with too little evidence, I would have been better off being an asshat. I should have hired a PI, sadly I didn't. Instead of just filing the divorce papers with my lawyer, I should have had him file them in the court. I could stop the divorce any time I chose, I got lucky my wife has worked as hard as she has. 

I would have also gone on a vacation, just me and the boys. This would have cleared my head, possibly changing much of what I did, but I chose not too. The separation would have been best for all of us, but again hind sight is 20/20. Instead I became cruel to my wife, I had her on the brink of a complete breakdown many times, which ultimately served no good purpose. 

So I would have changed some things, but if my wife responded any differently then she had, I would have divorced. Reconciliation wouldn't have been possible, she had to work and go through what she has. This has made her a better person, enough to have earned the gift of reconciliation. And although it's not easy, we are getting better together, we are becoming better people, we are getting to be healthy.


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## Master Blaster (Aug 2, 2017)

Thorburn said:


> It has been over a year since I have been on here and thought I might give my 2 cents.
> 
> I had started the paperwork for D. My wife knew it and I would not give her any information about my attorney, etc. My oldest son is disabled and he wanted to get away from his mother for a weekend. So I found a retreat, rented him a cabin. My wife came along for the ride (unusual for her at that point). Our youngest son had stopped talking to his mother, my oldest was p*ssed. Her family who she was very close was no longer talking to her. Her three brothers were supporting me and her two older sisters stopped talking to her (even the middle one who supported her for a while during her A's). So we drove over an hour to the retreat place, got his cabin set up and I helped him with his fishing gear and we built a fire and then left.
> 
> ...


This is the best piece of profoundness i have read in a very long time....


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## Hexagon (Jun 20, 2017)

I've started calling my wife's affairs, "storms". During and shortly after my wife's first storm, I would have been considerably harder on her. Instead, I was so desperate for a family that I accepted anything. I would have been harder, demanded IC for us both, and started secret preparations for another storm. 
I cannot blame myself for either of her affairs however, had I not rolled over after the first one, the odds could have been less for the second.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

I would have screamed at him, thrown things, told everyone, and kicked him out of the house. Instead I rugsweept out of shame, confusion, and a sense of responsibility to my family. My low self worth got in the way of doing what I should have done at the time. He's a much better husband now, but that doesn't change the fact that what he did changed me. I"ll never feel the same way about him, about us, or about marriage.


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## Scooter123 (Aug 5, 2017)

I think it helped that we started counseling very soon, but not marriage counseling. We actually did six months of individual therapy with different therapists, and then we found a new therapist for the marriage counseling. The individual therapy really helped me deal with my anger and prepared me for the couples counseling. I can't say it solves everything. I'm still working through some serious issues but it was productive.


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