# Trial separation - No choice or divorce



## manindespair

Some advice would be appreciated. A while ago I posted something in "CWI" section but things have moved on so think it best ask some long termers for advice.

Married, 7 years, been together 14, 3 children 19, 16 and 7. Obviously 2 are from wifes previous relationships and the 7 year old is both of ours. Treat all the children like my own and am desperate to be happy for their sakes as well as our own.
I am 38, wife is 39.

Always had a fantastic relationship with a great life. We get on well, are companions, love eachother, nice home, good social, go out with individual friends, together and with mutual friends.

Easter time she went totally cold on me, moved out for a week or so, I then moved out for a few days still not knowing what the problem was.

On 1st May I confronted her again and she had had an afair with a guy from the gym. She said it was over because he dumped her but she wasnt sure if still in love with me etc etc (usual story... bad marriage, controlling, we had problems before etc).

Anyway, we have been working on things since then and gradually getting better and better. Week before last we spoke about an apartment for her to have space when she needs it (quiet time for reading, chilling etc to help not be so claustrophobic). I agreed and a weight was lifted off her shoulders and we REALLY turned a corner. Things were great and I was happy to support her to get us back to where we wanted to be.

Then last Saturday, she went out with friends and 'he' was there. She told me the whole story, didnt hide anything and although I was angry with the fact they spent a lot of time together, I believed her that she felt really awkward but didnt want mutual friends to know they had history.

Then on Monday we went marriage councelling and the councellor challenged her on the apartment. Wife got her back up and started to say she doesnt want it for "now and then" but wants it for longer periods of time.

To cut a long story short, since then it has gone down hill rapidly into the fact that she is moving out on Monday, for a "trial separation" with no real answer to the timescale etc.... there are no boundaries!

We agreed to have a date in 3 weeks and decide how things were going and if she was getting her head straight.

I HAVE NO CHOICE... I either agree, she goes and hopefully turns out for the best OR DIVORCE.

She says the fairytail is that after the separation (which will be longer than the 3 weeks obviously) she would love us to be happy, and together and for me to be the man I once was IN CONTROL of my own life and not clingy.

Help please.... I go along with it but go against my principles or I divorce and shatter my childrens lives as well as lose the woman I am in love with!!!

What should I do?


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## RKMichigan

Sounds really sad. You seem to be a person interested in keeping the marriage for the sake of kids and I respect that immensely. I am just shocked that she had an affair with a guy. That is totally not acceptable according to me. And as far as getting another apartment for her to chill out, hmm, not so much acceptable to me as well. If a partner wants some down time, they go do some shopping or go to the bar for a drink or a movie or a vacation by themselves, not a separate apartment! 
Your wife is clearly not interested in the married life anymore, at least for now. You can go along her terms and try your best to let her free and not be clingy yourself. You see, if u divorce, she's going to be free from you forever. So try your best, who knows maybe the 3 weeks is her time to get her head cleared (Although I wouldnt have called it a trial separation). Good luck!


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## manindespair

RKMichigan said:


> Sounds really sad. You seem to be a person interested in keeping the marriage for the sake of kids and I respect that immensely. I am just shocked that she had an affair with a guy. That is totally not acceptable according to me. And as far as getting another apartment for her to chill out, hmm, not so much acceptable to me as well. If a partner wants some down time, they go do some shopping or go to the bar for a drink or a movie or a vacation by themselves, not a separate apartment!
> Your wife is clearly not interested in the married life anymore, at least for now. You can go along her terms and try your best to let her free and not be clingy yourself. You see, if u divorce, she's going to be free from you forever. So try your best, who knows maybe the 3 weeks is her time to get her head cleared (Although I wouldnt have called it a trial separation). Good luck!


You are correct... she isnt interested in married life anymore. She is a stubborn woman but I dont understand how things could be getting so much better and then go totally down hill so fast.

I blame it on her infatuation for staying young.... so she went with a lot younger man to prove she is attractive.

Our relationship WAS great... it's not now but worth trying to remember what we had!

Is it STILL worth the fight? Is it worth at least waiting the 3 weeks?


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## murphy5

sounds like she had an affair, it did not work out too well, she suddenly saw you as a valid Plan B, stepped up things to make you happier, then original POS OM shows up and says "hey, i hear you have your own apartment now" and she says "yeah, wanna come over", and she goes cold on you, and is separating because YOU are such a clingy ahole! LOL Yeah, its ALL your fault for sure.

let her frigin go. Do not be her plan B' when this one fails too. kick her out, divorce her, get full custody NOW while she is in this affair fog (because later she will come to her senses and try to rake you over the coals). RUN to a divorce lawyer and accelerate everything.


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## manindespair

murphy5 said:


> sounds like she had an affair, it did not work out too well, she suddenly saw you as a valid Plan B, stepped up things to make you happier, then original POS OM shows up and says "hey, i hear you have your own apartment now" and she says "yeah, wanna come over", and she goes cold on you, and is separating because YOU are such a clingy ahole! LOL Yeah, its ALL your fault for sure.
> 
> let her frigin go. Do not be her plan B' when this one fails too. kick her out, divorce her, get full custody NOW while she is in this affair fog (because later she will come to her senses and try to rake you over the coals). RUN to a divorce lawyer and accelerate everything.


cheers mate... think u are spot on to be honest!


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## waylan

Best advice is to cut this one loose.... You DESERVE better.


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## CoralReef

Well your wife is very self absorbed as you know and as you might not know she is also very insecure and shallow. Any woman in a marriage who dumps her husband and runs off to be with a younger man to prove she is still attractive has some deeper issues.

As previous poster said. Do not be her plan B. Do not call her and beg her to come home or hound her as to what she wants to do. Go dark on her. Don't call or text and only communicate about the children. I especially like how she left all three kids to stay in the house with you while she has relives her 20s in a private apartment. She should be disgusted with herself and you should be disgusted with her as well.

Don't give her the idea that you will wait around for her because she is so important. Don't be her plan B. Do not be her rebound.


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## cuchulain36

A "trial separation" for a marriage where someone had an affair is the perfect scenario for the cheater, they're effectively free to do whatever they want and they have you firmly as plan B.

If you separate only do it if it's necessary to do before the divorce. You'll just mentally torture yourself. If someone had an affair and they aren't basically kissing your hair beanbag daily and being 100% sincere they want reconciliation it's pointless to even bother with it.

After my wife cheated I left and didn't look back, we never officially divorced because of financial issues but our only involvement was when I was picking up my son and support payments. that went on for three years until she basically begged me back and worked for years to convince me she was sincere. We still have a ton of issues and I know I made the wrong choice going back, but I wouldn't have even considered it in the situation you're in. Just leave, don't look back, if she wants to reconcile for real, you'll know, right now she doesn't give a crap about you, and sorry but that's the truth.


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## manindespair

CoralReef said:


> Well your wife is very self absorbed as you know and as you might not know she is also very insecure and shallow. Any woman in a marriage who dumps her husband and runs off to be with a younger man to prove she is still attractive has some deeper issues.
> 
> As previous poster said. Do not be her plan B. Do not call her and beg her to come home or hound her as to what she wants to do. Go dark on her. Don't call or text and only communicate about the children. I especially like how she left all three kids to stay in the house with you while she has relives her 20s in a private apartment. She should be disgusted with herself and you should be disgusted with her as well.
> 
> Don't give her the idea that you will wait around for her because she is so important. Don't be her plan B. Do not be her rebound.


You know this is all hard to hear but is basically what I am coming to believe to be the truth. The FOG is with her but to be honest even when she is out of the fog she will struggle to get rid of her stubborness.

The hardest thing is that we WERE so happy.... she has always beena strong minded woman but thats what I loved. 

For a while I thought I couldnt do better.... now... I am scared but know I need to move on.

I will wait the 3 weeks for the date night.... during which gather all the info I need and make arrangements. So so scared... I guess I tried my best!


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## Lostinthought61

No offense Man but you should not be responsible for the first two kids at this point she should be taking them....it seems like your dealing with all the responsible and she has all the fun....that to me is the definition of a doormat...she should truly feel the pain....


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## Prodigal

manindespair said:


> Week before last we spoke about an apartment for her to have space when she needs it (quiet time for reading, chilling etc to help not be so claustrophobic).
> 
> ... the councellor challenged her on the apartment. Wife got her back up and started to say she doesnt want it for "now and then" but wants it for longer periods of time.


Seriously? She needs her own apartment for "reading" and contemplating the cosmos, huh? Are you buying this crapola? She wants an apartment to entertain the OM. 



manindespair said:


> ... she is moving out on Monday, for a "trial separation" with no real answer to the timescale etc.... there are no boundaries!


There are NO BOUNDARIES??? Set some, for cryin' out loud! Why is she in charge of this situation? You want boundaries? SET BOUNDARIES!



manindespair said:


> ]We agreed to have a date in 3 weeks and decide how things were going and if she was getting her head straight.
> 
> I HAVE NO CHOICE... I either agree, she goes and hopefully turns out for the best OR DIVORCE.


Baloney. You DO have choices. The problem is, she is dictating the terms and you are stepping in line with her agenda.

This is where you set boundaries. Why? Because she is calling the shots and you are hanging onto hope. "We" agreed to have a date to decide if "she" is getting her head straight? Meh!

Grow a pair NOW and tell her in three weeks she either gets with the program or you start divorce proceedings.

What's to happen to the children in the meantime? Mom will drop by when she feels in the mood to see them? You are their primary parent while wifey is deciding if she wants to be single and play with the boys?:scratchhead:


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## manindespair

Xenote said:


> No offense Man but you should not be responsible for the first two kids at this point she should be taking them....it seems like your dealing with all the responsible and she has all the fun....that to me is the definition of a doormat...she should truly feel the pain....


trust me mate.... even though they are not mine I have always been there father and will continue forever.

She will feel the pain when she realises she lost EVERYTHING. She can have 50% of the money etc but she will regret losing a great husband, friend and breaking up her family.

She may never admit... but she knows!


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## Openminded

Why does she get to have an apartment to read and chill out and not be claustrophobic? Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds? What she's really going to do is hook up with the OM or find another one to take his place. 

I don't believe in trial separations. Yes, they sometimes work but most of the time they lead to divorce.


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## manindespair

Prodigal said:


> Seriously? She needs her own apartment for "reading" and contemplating the cosmos, huh? Are you buying this crapola? She wants an apartment to entertain the OM.
> 
> 
> 
> There are NO BOUNDARIES??? Set some, for cryin' out loud! Why is she in charge of this situation? You want boundaries? SET BOUNDARIES!
> 
> 
> 
> Baloney. You DO have choices. The problem is, she is dictating the terms and you are stepping in line with her agenda.
> 
> This is where you set boundaries. Why? Because she is calling the shots and you are hanging onto hope. "We" agreed to have a date to decide if "she" is getting her head straight? Meh!
> 
> Grow a pair NOW and tell her in three weeks she either gets with the program or you start divorce proceedings.
> 
> What's to happen to the children in the meantime? Mom will drop by when she feels in the mood to see them? You are their primary parent while wifey is deciding if she wants to be single and play with the boys?:scratchhead:


Earlier today I said to her that in 3 weeks I dont want a "I dont know" but I want a decision.... thing is the more I think about it the more I realise that she just wants me as plan B.

I hate it... but like I said I think the 3 weeks will be good to get all the main things straight so I can tell her I want a divorce. I hate it I hate it I hate it.... but I will never have self respect if I dont!


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## Prodigal

The only concern I have is what about the kids? Will she shove them into a small apartment with her? I doubt it.

She will either let you raise them, or she'll see to it that she and the OM get a large enough house for the whole happy clan.

I feel for the children. I wonder if they realize that their mom is behaving like a skank. Seriously.

Be the role model they need. Be strong for them. They deserve one parent who is sane.


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## Laurel

You should serve her with divorce papers during this "trial separation," start the 180 (if you were posting in the infidelity forum you should be familiar with this, if not there are links in there) and start moving on with your life as if she won't be in it. The ONLY way to break cheaters out of the fog is for them to deal with the consequences of their actions and realize what they are about to lose. If you keep acting like a weak, desperate man, kissing her butt and putting up with her crap, you WILL lose her for sure. After she is served with divorce papers and feels that she may actually lose you, it may break her out of her fog. Or it may not. But the only way reconciliation can work is if the WS has true remorse, agrees to complete transparency and the WS works on the issues within themselves that caused them to cheat in the first place (FYI, this does NOT include separate apartments for "alone time"). It sounds like the affair was simply rug-swept in your case. You are her Plan B to fall back on. 

Her wanting to get an apartment, and you actually agreeing to it, was completely insane. This is not normal behavior for any married couple, let alone one who is touched by infidelity. The reason she felt a "weight was lifted off her shoulder" is because she had just manipulated her husband into financing a loveshack for her and her boyfriend. She is a cake eater. 

She knows you are "desperate to be happy" and is sure you will always be there for her and her kids and will put up with whatever she dishes out. She has ZERO respect for you.

She's not the person you thought she was. No matter how happy you thought the two of you were, her opinion was different. 

Get copies of Married Man Sex Life Primer and No More Mr. Nice Guy. 

I don't mean to be harsh. But this is simply the truth. The more you chase her, the more she will retreat and run to her lover.


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## Rugs

You should post this in the Coping With Infidelity Forum. They will sober you up quick over there. You are drowning and basically, "doing everything wrong" in this situation. 

Your actions will not get your wife back, they will push her away, fast.


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## tom67

Prodigal said:


> The only concern I have is what about the kids? Will she shove them into a small apartment with her? I doubt it.
> 
> She will either let you raise them, or she'll see to it that she and the OM get a large enough house for the whole happy clan.
> 
> I feel for the children. I wonder if they realize that their mom is behaving like a skank. Seriously.
> 
> Be the role model they need. Be strong for them. They deserve one parent who is sane.


Go see a solicitor on Monday you only need to support the one child.
Give her what she wants with a big dose of reality.
This has gone on long enough.
Tell her older kids THE TRUTH.
They deserve it and will respect you for it.


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## Revamped

Um, I disagree. Leave adult matters to adults. Telling children about a spouses affair is vindictive and petty.

A generalized statement such as "we aren't getting along and we've decided she's moving out" is enough of an explanation.


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## tom67

Revamped said:


> Um, I disagree. Leave adult matters to adults. Telling children about a spouses affair is vindictive and petty.
> 
> A generalized statement such as "we aren't getting along and we've decided she's moving out" is enough of an explanation.


The oldest is 19 that's an adult.
Do you really think they aren't going to ask why her mother is leaving?
Again just the older ones.
They know something is going down.


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## Revamped

So, by telling her older children about their mother 's affair, OP gets "revenge" on his wife at the expense of her children.

This information shouldn't come from OP. Period.


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## tom67

Revamped said:


> So, by telling her older children about their mother 's affair, OP gets "revenge" on his wife at the expense of her children.
> 
> This information shouldn't come from OP. Period.


Sigh...
Agree to disagree.
So even though he has been taking care of them like his own he should just be the good doormat that he has been and just keep his fuc^ing mouth shut.
That is sad to teach kids this behavior.
But to each his own.:slap::slap::slap:


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## golfergirl

There is a difference between trying to turn a child against a parent and telling the truth. When you sugar coat the truth with adult children you lose their trust. You don't have to call her down as the sleazy scummy skanky tramp, but saying she is interested in someone else is the truth. It is the path she chose - shouldn't have any issue with just stating the facts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cuchulain36

Having lived through several affairs early on in our marriage I would never tell my children about it. You just don't do that IMO.


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## tom67

golfergirl said:


> There is a difference between trying to turn a child against a parent and telling the truth. When you sugar coat the truth with adult children you lose their trust. You don't have to call her down as the sleazy scummy skanky tramp, but saying she is interested in someone else is the truth. It is the path she chose - shouldn't have any issue with just stating the facts.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree::iagree::iagree:
That's it nothing more.


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## alphaomega

I think the apartment is a great idea!

Except she gets it mon, wed, fri. You get it the other days.

Then...go find a young, nubile, willing partner to see if you still "got" it.

Hey....whats good for the goose....


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## tom67

alphaomega said:


> I think the apartment is a great idea!
> 
> Except she gets it mon, wed, fri. You get it the other days.
> 
> Then...go find a young, nubile, willing partner to see if you still "got" it.
> 
> Hey....whats good for the goose....


:lol::lol::iagree:


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## honcho

manindespair said:


> You know this is all hard to hear but is basically what I am coming to believe to be the truth. The FOG is with her but to be honest even when she is out of the fog she will struggle to get rid of her stubborness.
> 
> The hardest thing is that we WERE so happy.... she has always beena strong minded woman but thats what I loved.
> 
> For a while I thought I couldnt do better.... now... I am scared but know I need to move on.
> 
> I will wait the 3 weeks for the date night.... during which gather all the info I need and make arrangements. So so scared... I guess I tried my best!


She is not in "the fog" she knows full well what she is doing and the choices she is making. No magic spell has been cast. 

Nothing will change in 3 weeks, fantasyland and freedom are great in the short term, this is a big reasons separations rarely work. One has a great time and thinks it will go on forever. 

Your best course of action is to file for divorce and show her you wont tolerate this situation. Dont wait 3 weeks, you wont get a real answer in 3 weeks, she will just string you along until she is fully ready to commit to her new life. 

Time is not your ally here, the longer she plays this game the more she will convince herself its the right move.


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## honcho

Revamped said:


> Um, I disagree. Leave adult matters to adults. Telling children about a spouses affair is vindictive and petty.
> 
> A generalized statement such as "we aren't getting along and we've decided she's moving out" is enough of an explanation.


The older children also deserve to know the truth about why there lives are going to change forever if it goes to divorce. You would also be better served telling them so they dont find out via the rumor mill which really does the kids no good.

Its not petty or vindictive if you just stick with the facts. Affairs thrive on secrecy, the more eyes on it and more public the less fun they are.


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## tom67

honcho said:


> The older children also deserve to know the truth about why there lives are going to change forever if it goes to divorce. You would also be better served telling them so they dont find out via the rumor mill which really does the kids no good.
> 
> Its not petty or vindictive if you just stick with the facts. Affairs thrive on secrecy, the more eyes on it and more public the less fun they are.


Listen OP you are hurting we get that and I feel for you.
The truth will set you free.
What happens after that well you cleaned your side of the street so to speak.
Peace.


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## AliceA

I didn't read the replies, so this has probably been said:

Detach

She told you exactly what you needed to do. She doesn't want you to be *desperately* in love with her, willing to go along with whatever demand she makes.

Give her exactly what she wants. Stop chasing her, stop being her punching bag. Start envisioning life on your own, doing your own thing, enjoying yourself (obviously still being a great Dad though).

Live your life like it's yours to live.


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## GusPolinski

manindespair said:


> Some advice would be appreciated. A while ago I posted something in "CWI" section but things have moved on so think it best ask some long termers for advice.
> 
> Married, 7 years, been together 14, 3 children 19, 16 and 7. Obviously 2 are from wifes previous relationships and the 7 year old is both of ours. Treat all the children like my own and am desperate to be happy for their sakes as well as our own.
> I am 38, wife is 39.
> 
> Always had a fantastic relationship with a great life. We get on well, are companions, love eachother, nice home, good social, go out with individual friends, together and with mutual friends.
> 
> Easter time she went totally cold on me, moved out for a week or so, I then moved out for a few days still not knowing what the problem was.


I remember your thread. I thought that we'd helped you to get your head on straight, but I guess not.

Oh, and PLEASE tell me that you didn't adopt the two older kids...?



manindespair said:


> On 1st May I confronted her again and she had had an afair with a guy from the gym. *She said it was over because he dumped her but she wasnt sure if still in love with me* etc etc (usual story... bad marriage, controlling, we had problems before etc).


Not good.



manindespair said:


> Anyway, we have been working on things since then and gradually getting better and better. *Week before last we spoke about an apartment for her to have space when she needs it (quiet time for reading, chilling etc to help not be so claustrophobic). I agreed and a weight was lifted off her shoulders and we REALLY turned a corner. Things were great and I was happy to support her to get us back to where we wanted to be.*


You poor, naive fool.

SERIOUSLY...?!?



manindespair said:


> Then last Saturday, she went out with friends and 'he' was there.


Oh. Wow. HUGE surprise.



manindespair said:


> She told me the whole story, didnt hide anything and although I was angry with the fact they spent a lot of time together, *I believed her that she felt really awkward* but didnt want mutual friends to know they had history.


You need to stop believing anything that she says to you.



manindespair said:


> *Then on Monday we went marriage councelling and the councellor challenged her on the apartment.*


It's good to see that your counselor has some common damn sense.



manindespair said:


> Wife got her back up and started to say she doesnt want it for "now and then" but wants it for longer periods of time.


Again, HUGE surprise.



manindespair said:


> To cut a long story short, since then it has gone down hill rapidly into the fact that she is moving out on Monday, for a "trial separation" with no real answer to the timescale etc.... there are no boundaries!


That's because you're not setting boundaries.



manindespair said:


> We agreed to have a date in 3 weeks and decide how things were going and if she was getting her head straight.


Oh dear Lord...



manindespair said:


> I HAVE NO CHOICE... I either agree, she goes and hopefully turns out for the best OR DIVORCE.


"I'll take Showcase #2, Bob!"



manindespair said:


> She says the fairytail is that after the separation (which will be longer than the 3 weeks obviously) she would love us to be happy, and together *and for me to be the man I once was IN CONTROL of my own life and not clingy.*


Read the part in bold, and then read it again. And then read it again, and again, and again.

NOW DO IT. And not for her, but for yourself and your kid(s).



manindespair said:


> Help please.... I go along with it but go against my principles or I divorce and shatter my childrens lives as well as lose the woman I am in love with!!!
> 
> What should I do?


FILE FOR DIVORCE!!!


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## GusPolinski

Seriously, MID... don't wait for the timer to run out on the 3 weeks. Start talking w/ lawyers on Monday morning and file for divorce ASAP.

And then tell her to come get the two oldest kids and take them back to the apartment w/ her.

UN-F*CKING-BELIEVABLE!!!


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## tom67

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously, MID... don't wait for the timer to run out on the 3 weeks. Start talking w/ lawyers on Monday morning and file for divorce ASAP.
> 
> And then tell her to come her the two oldest kids and take them back to the apartment w/ her.
> 
> UN-F*CKING-BELIEVABLE!!!


Ugh you have received here great info.
Now it is your job to act.


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## workindad

OP, from what you have described, the trial separation is her way of alleviating any guilt or associated wrong while she bones POSOM as much as possible. It has nothing to do with working on or saving your marriage.

You cannot reconcile under these terms.
Get tested for STDs if you haven't already.
File for D.
Be honest with the older children, expect them to ask.
Take care of yourself.


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## LongWalk

Did you notice that the two children she had with another man, the ones into whom you have poured your love and affection are now almost adults. You have served your purpose, raising another man's children. Now she is done with you.

Several posters have told you to file for D before the three week period is over.

1) Get the D papers ready and give them to her asap
2) Do not treat the three week date as anything of significance. She merely established that to buy time away from you.

Dump her fast and hard. 180 on everything but D and 7-year-old.

Did you adopt the other two?

Although it may be tough for both them and you, if you are not their parent legally, you need to start checking out financially. Give them nothing in terms of college tuition, cars, big items. Beware of your WW encouraging them to string you on further as plan B. This does not mean being mean or neglectful of those two children. The problems that are coming into your relationship have a cause beyond your control. Your WW has torpedoed everything, not you.


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## Emerald

manindespair said:


> Some advice would be appreciated. A while ago I posted something in "CWI" section but things have moved on so think it best ask some long termers for advice.
> 
> Married, 7 years, been together 14, 3 children 19, 16 and 7. Obviously 2 are from wifes previous relationships and the 7 year old is both of ours. Treat all the children like my own and am desperate to be happy for their sakes as well as our own.
> I am 38, wife is 39.
> 
> Always had a fantastic relationship with a great life. We get on well, are companions, love eachother, nice home, good social, go out with individual friends, together and with mutual friends.
> 
> Easter time she went totally cold on me, moved out for a week or so, I then moved out for a few days still not knowing what the problem was.
> 
> On 1st May I confronted her again and she had had an afair with a guy from the gym. She said it was over because he dumped her but she wasnt sure if still in love with me etc etc (usual story... bad marriage, controlling, we had problems before etc).
> 
> Anyway, we have been working on things since then and gradually getting better and better. Week before last we spoke about an apartment for her to have space when she needs it (quiet time for reading, chilling etc to help not be so claustrophobic). I agreed and a weight was lifted off her shoulders and we REALLY turned a corner. Things were great and I was happy to support her to get us back to where we wanted to be.
> 
> Then last Saturday, she went out with friends and 'he' was there. She told me the whole story, didnt hide anything and although I was angry with the fact they spent a lot of time together, I believed her that she felt really awkward but didnt want mutual friends to know they had history.
> 
> Then on Monday we went marriage councelling and the councellor challenged her on the apartment. Wife got her back up and started to say she doesnt want it for "now and then" but wants it for longer periods of time.
> 
> To cut a long story short, since then it has gone down hill rapidly into the fact that she is moving out on Monday, for a "trial separation" with no real answer to the timescale etc.... there are no boundaries!
> 
> We agreed to have a date in 3 weeks and decide how things were going and if she was getting her head straight.
> 
> I HAVE NO CHOICE... I either agree, she goes and hopefully turns out for the best OR DIVORCE.
> 
> She says the fairytail is that after the separation (which will be longer than the 3 weeks obviously) she would love us to be happy, and together and for me to be the man I once was IN CONTROL of my own life and not clingy.
> 
> Help please.... I go along with it but go against my principles or I divorce and shatter my childrens lives as well as lose the woman I am in love with!!!
> 
> What should I do?


Sorry to say but your children's lives are already shattered.

What sane Mother moves out & leaves her children behind?

Get yourself back into counseling. Your wife is not the same person that you are in love with. You will need to grieve your former happy life in order to move on & this will take time but meanwhile, your children need you more than ever to be strong because they have been abandoned by their Mother. I think they should also get counseling.

I would also visit a lawyer & go for sole custody of the 7 old. Your wife is an unfit Mother.


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## brendanoco

"*Help please.... I go along with it but go against my principles or I divorce and shatter my childrens lives as well as lose the woman I am in love with!!!

What should I do?[/QUOTE]*"



Reach down into your pants and try and find some balls

your wife is walking all over you and she is fu*king another man and you are worried about losing her 

Please do not tell me you are paying for her apartment??

Go to a lawyer tomorrow and have her served niceing her back to you will not work and WILL NEVER WORK.


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## murphy5

listen, I know this is hard for you. And the brutally harsh advice you are getting it tough on your ego. Its ok, we are here to support you. You screwed up, you married her. It was not totally your fault because she tricked you into thinking she loved you and was a good wife. Hey, maybe she even DID love you at the start. But for whatever reason, she completely changed into this vile creature who would leave her kids with you to move out to an apartment for a **** fest with whomever shows up.

You really DO have to snap out of it. You dodged a bullet before you dropped $200K+ putting her two kids thru college! be thankful for that.

You can be strong, and available, for the two girls who are not biologically yours. Tell them that their mom is going thru some tough mental issues, issues you will never understand or approve of, and it is likely over for the two of you. But that you still feel you are their father, and they can come to you for counsel or help when they need to. 

But Monday morning, we want you in the lawyer's office. Get a rough one! One that will pull no punches. Let him be your gladiator. You seem to be more passive and forgiving. Do NOT pick a laywer like you! Pick a junk yard dog. And then turn him loose!


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## manindespair

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously, MID... don't wait for the timer to run out on the 3 weeks. Start talking w/ lawyers on Monday morning and file for divorce ASAP.
> 
> And then tell her to come get the two oldest kids and take them back to the apartment w/ her.
> 
> UN-F*CKING-BELIEVABLE!!!


Gus... I really do appreciate your advice as you have been there from the start.

You know I have always treated the two oldest like my own and to be honest I CANNOT give up on them!

I agree (and hate that I agree) with your advice BUT it is ****ING HARD. We started to seem better.... everything was moving in the right direction but IT DIDNT LAST.

I know everyone thinks I am being a mug.... I do too! I DO HAVE BALLS (as someone told me to grow a pair) but am struggling to forgive myself for the heartache the girls will be going through.

GUS... you know that I want to try everything to do the right thing.... I am coming to the solution that divorce may be it but my brain is not as hardened as some of yours that have gone through this a while ago.

When she moves out it will be easier... I just guess it's not real yet.

Thanks everyone for the inputs... all the exact same thing.


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## notadoormat

hello, M.i.d. 
i can relate to your story so i will post some advise. 
first and foremost do the 180. its very hard but try and if you stumble just keep trying. if you have an urge to contact her..write what you have to say in a notebook.and let it be. 

as for the two older children only you can choose how you want those relationships to continue. you need to decide your motivation in it..because you love them and want to be their father figure or in hopes of winning their mom back. im sure its the first and if their bio dads have no involvement im sure they will forever apprecriate you for being the father to them. my father in law raised my brother in law from birth but he was not the bio dad..(divorced-remarried m.i.l..). m.i.l. later seperated again leaving boys and he cont. to support. back together again till she died last year. bio dad never in picture. father i n law enjoys relationship with my b.i.l and now his granddaughter as if they were biologically bounded. its so close that we didnt even know truth till we were adults. kudos to my f.i.l. yes my f.i.l. knew from get go but he chose this. 

as for telling kids affair it depends on age and circumstance. in my case i told my teens because he told them i was having affair to deflect from his. he told them i kicked him out. he chose to leave. he let kids blame me. so after he refused to be accountible i narced him out. but i did it with saying but we both love the kids and im sorry situation sucks. didnt personally trash him. we make our own relationships w kids.

yes it may appear your plan B. i was plan B as well. he came back and later told me about affair before he moved and sought attention at apt but at apt was telling me trying to work things out blah blah. so while every situation is different i think we are just cautioning you in our exp to prevent you from experiencing some of the turmoil we went thru. 

for now you will benefit from making choices with your head..not ypur heart. go thru the motions. and deal with ur heart as you go along. plan something fun or nice just for you each day. even if you dont feel like it.

continue counseling alone to determine how you should proceed and wether to do your date in 3 wks. and if so how you should handle it. 

i recommend working out. it really feels good and releases happy endorphins. 

you have the older teens. maybe you can pay them to babysit to go out. if you really think you need to for ypur lingering doubt you or maybe a friend can keep an eye on ur wifes activity...i should have done this i n retrospect and saved me a lot of time doubt and grief. some posters on here did that for confirmation.

take this time to evaluate your life. i get that your clingy. i was too. i never got much attention or love. and its a human need. only other mens wives were deserving of it and he rubbed in my face i was an attention ***** tho his AP could text him 6000 x month. i was lucky if i got ten mins a day before that for years. 

post and kerp us updated it will help ypu to put ur thoughts feelings vents on here ..not on her so you dont appear weak to her and wont give her the satisfaction she making you unhappy. 

best wishes


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## notadoormat

op, i apologize. i misread. i thought she was currently gone. my concern is that she will move..make you plan b. move back in. if it still does not wk out the 7 yr old will see a seperation and false reconconcliation then another seperation. its too jhard for a 7 yr old to go thru a parent move in and out in and out. my sbxh mom did that to him and he became jaded. he then did that to me and sons and our sons are jaded. 

so im thinking...you need to not give her this power. you are clearly thinking more about the kids than she is. her head is in fantasy island. you need to tell her its not o.k. to subject the family into limbohell. that its a concern to put a young child into not knowing if their family will be together or not. 

she just needs to either choose to continue working on her marriage with the counselor or divorce. im.sure your afraid of the answer. however..the reality is you can choose to do this and she either chooses to love you and your happy or you risk being unloved and in limbo hell. 

if your worst fear comes true...we are here for you to support you thru a traumatic life event. weve been thru it and many of us wont judge you if you need to cry vent etc. we just dont want to see you get used and treated like me..a doormat. a former one that is. good luck.


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## manindespair

notadoormat said:


> hello, M.i.d.
> i can relate to your story so i will post some advise.
> first and foremost do the 180. its very hard but try and if you stumble just keep trying. if you have an urge to contact her..write what you have to say in a notebook.and let it be.
> 
> as for the two older children only you can choose how you want those relationships to continue. you need to decide your motivation in it..because you love them and want to be their father figure or in hopes of winning their mom back. im sure its the first and if their bio dads have no involvement im sure they will forever apprecriate you for being the father to them. my father in law raised my brother in law from birth but he was not the bio dad..(divorced-remarried m.i.l..). m.i.l. later seperated again leaving boys and he cont. to support. back together again till she died last year. bio dad never in picture. father i n law enjoys relationship with my b.i.l and now his granddaughter as if they were biologically bounded. its so close that we didnt even know truth till we were adults. kudos to my f.i.l. yes my f.i.l. knew from get go but he chose this.
> 
> as for telling kids affair it depends on age and circumstance. in my case i told my teens because he told them i was having affair to deflect from his. he told them i kicked him out. he chose to leave. he let kids blame me. so after he refused to be accountible i narced him out. but i did it with saying but we both love the kids and im sorry situation sucks. didnt personally trash him. we make our own relationships w kids.
> 
> yes it may appear your plan B. i was plan B as well. he came back and later told me about affair before he moved and sought attention at apt but at apt was telling me trying to work things out blah blah. so while every situation is different i think we are just cautioning you in our exp to prevent you from experiencing some of the turmoil we went thru.
> 
> for now you will benefit from making choices with your head..not ypur heart. go thru the motions. and deal with ur heart as you go along. plan something fun or nice just for you each day. even if you dont feel like it.
> 
> continue counseling alone to determine how you should proceed and wether to do your date in 3 wks. and if so how you should handle it.
> 
> i recommend working out. it really feels good and releases happy endorphins.
> 
> you have the older teens. maybe you can pay them to babysit to go out. if you really think you need to for ypur lingering doubt you or maybe a friend can keep an eye on ur wifes activity...i should have done this i n retrospect and saved me a lot of time doubt and grief. some posters on here did that for confirmation.
> 
> take this time to evaluate your life. i get that your clingy. i was too. i never got much attention or love. and its a human need. only other mens wives were deserving of it and he rubbed in my face i was an attention ***** tho his AP could text him 6000 x month. i was lucky if i got ten mins a day before that for years.
> 
> post and kerp us updated it will help ypu to put ur thoughts feelings vents on here ..not on her so you dont appear weak to her and wont give her the satisfaction she making you unhappy.
> 
> best wishes


Wow.... your story is very similar to mine and I appreciate your words.

I have never been one to go on forums until this and to be honest I find it difficult to really express the feelings inside. I feel that everyone is so correct but I dont want them to be.... like you said, my head agrees but my heart is wanting it to be something completely different.

My wife is stubborn.... when I finally make the decision for divorce I know it is the last decision I will make and that is then forever.

4 months ago my life was rocked. I listened and read to information about the FOG and hoped my wife would come out of it and start trying. Some people out there told me that I needed to be hard..... my councellor told me different.

How did the 180 work for you? Did it help you to move on? Are you now single?

I sound like a wimp but after all these years, when I married someone for life I did not expect to have to start again. Now with all this I am scared I will be alone (I know makes me sound like a non masculine man but it is the truth). I worry about my future not being with someone anywhere near as great (as she used to be not how she is now).

I just think today has been a game changer.... finally realise that PLAN B is not an option. I dont want to be PLAN B but I am scared to walk away.

I have had good advice and have taken some and not others.... now I feel that maybe I am at the end and I will much up the kids lives.

For the record.... I am a good dad and want to support the older girls because I consider them my blood.... not because I think it will help R.

Thanks again for your post.... really really do mean it!


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## LongWalk

Man in Despair,

Very good that you responded to Gus positively. You sense (correctly) that he is on your side. We are trying to help you but you must take some hard decisions.

You are not the legal father of your step daughters, are you? Is the the reason you don't respond to this question because it is unbearable to face posters advising to distance yourself from them?

It is essential that you present your step daughters with real love. Being a doormat to their mother will send them the message that a man's testicles can and should be crushed. By standing up for yourself, your step daughters will gain an essential lesson. They will know that their mother has done wrong. They are in danger of repeating the pattern. Think of their best interest.

If you have been a good step dad to them, that will not be cancelled out by backing away from your WW's manipulation. You should be steady in your relationship to them because it is important to you. But if they lose in divorce, well, that was your WW's choice, not yours. By accepting responsibility for the consequences of her decisions you volunteering for more testicular agony.

There is a long shot. You may save your marriage and win your WW back but this is only worthwhile if she is remorseful. Is she capable of such insight?

Also, she needs a big shock to jolt her. Divorce at her pace is fine by her. Divorce, according to your schedule, will be a different matter.

She thinks you are going to call her in three weeks time to beg for a date. Don't call her. If she wants to date, let her call you.


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## notadoormat

m.i.d.
most people fear being alone...male or female. i have lived most of my adult life w men only so i get that its hard for you to say ypur true feelings. ego..blah blah. but remember we are all anonymous here. i wont see you at the mall grocery store and cant point finger and laugh at you. this is the beauty of this forum. you can even p.m. me if you choose. 

i already get what you really want is your wife to wake up out of her f.o.g and be madly in love with you. or better yet..have never had to deal with this. its like death. you wake up to find out of the blue ur marriage died. you dont know why or how. your gping through the stages of a death of a relationship like any other death...shock denial etc. you had your whole future planned out. now in addition to dealing w stages of grief ur also dealing with rejection. and worse..poss images...gross. 

they say affairs/divorce are one of lifes most traumatic events. so dont miminimize what ur going through. ven though she is being a selfish flake you still had/have an attachment n love for her. that just doesnt go away overnight. neither does hope. but hope can be a double edge sword.

you love her. that is apparent. you want her to love you. but the reality is we cant make people love us. so you cant have a romantic relationship with someone because you love them. it has to be mutual. 

she at some point detached without ur knowledge. mine did as well. 

so while you are in the process of grief...we are only trying to help you get through the stages so you dont possibly prolong misery. kind of like helping someone make funeral arrangements as they process the death of a loved one. thats as best as i can describe the motivations of t.a.m. in this subject when it appears the w.s. is most likely cake eating. 

dont becafraid to say you want ur wife to love you. ur not the first wont be the last. we wont laugh at you. we just dont want to see you get burned.

if you give her this choice..and she walks...you dont have her now. if you give her this choice you will show her you are respecting yourself. you will feel better about yourself. trust me. she then will know its either marriage or divorce but cake eating limbo hell ..which is the worst thing a spouse can do...is NOT an option. who knows maybe she will choose you but re iterate a time line if she chooses you...marriage counseling. and a time limit of say 6-12 mos. if the chemistry..respect ..commitment etc not their then it wont work long term. 

as for the two older...what is the status ..are you a step parent..legal adopt. is their bio dad in pic or child support. we can help you sort thru best for you on that. their near adults. i think either way you have made a relationship with them which is commendable and clearly your choice. 

p.m. for Q on my situation if u want. i dont want to hijack this thread.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Prodigal

manindespair said:


> I sound like a wimp but after all these years, when I married someone for life I did not expect to have to start again. Now with all this I am scared I will be alone (I know makes me sound like a non masculine man but it is the truth). I worry about my future not being with someone anywhere near as great (as she used to be not how she is now).
> 
> I just think today has been a game changer.... finally realise that PLAN B is not an option. I dont want to be PLAN B but I am scared to walk away.


Bravery is doing what you fear, IN SPITE of that fear. As Churchill said, "When you are going through hell - keep going!"

I walked away from my husband, whom I loved very much. Come to think of it, I still love the man. 
Was I worried nobody else would enter my life? Actually, weird as this may sound, NO. I needed time to myself to recover.

You need time to recover as well. Stop thinking in absolutes: "If I divorce her, I'll be alone the rest of my life," "If I divorce her I'll never find love again." 

C'mon ... how many billions of people inhabit this planet? Do you seriously think you won't bump into another woman with whom you can find happiness?

My suggestion is you get some serious counseling to find out why you are so needy. Because to put up with the crap your wife has pulled, and then worry about being alone after you get her trampy a$$ out of your life ... well, THAT is needy.

You sound like a good guy, but it's time for the 180.

P.S. - I didn't find another man. In all honesty, I don't care. Why? Because I found a satisfying life. Really.


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## notadoormat

keep us posted so we can support you either way. best wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manindespair

LongWalk said:


> Man in Despair,
> 
> Very good that you responded to Gus positively. You sense (correctly) that he is on your side. We are trying to help you but you must take some hard decisions.
> 
> You are not the legal father of your step daughters, are you? Is the the reason you don't respond to this question because it is unbearable to face posters advising to distance yourself from them?
> 
> It is essential that you present your step daughters with real love. Being a doormat to their mother will send them the message that a man's testicles can and should be crushed. By standing up for yourself, your step daughters will gain an essential lesson. They will know that their mother has done wrong. They are in danger of repeating the pattern. Think of their best interest.
> 
> If you have been a good step dad to them, that will not be cancelled out by backing away from your WW's manipulation. You should be steady in your relationship to them because it is important to you. But if they lose in divorce, well, that was your WW's choice, not yours. By accepting responsibility for the consequences of her decisions you volunteering for more testicular agony.
> 
> There is a long shot. You may save your marriage and win your WW back but this is only worthwhile if she is remorseful. Is she capable of such insight?
> 
> Also, she needs a big shock to jolt her. Divorce at her pace is fine by her. Divorce, according to your schedule, will be a different matter.
> 
> She thinks you are going to call her in three weeks time to beg for a date. Don't call her. If she wants to date, let her call you.


Thanks for this message. 

No, I am not the legal father of the stepdaughter but to be honest on that one I really will go with my belief that even though they are not mine by blood.... they are totally mine in reality. They have called me Dad for over 13 years and I have always treated them like my own.

I see your point about not letting them see I am a wimp.... the last thing I would want to do is not give them the correct road to take.

Divorce at her pace..... point makes sense. Knowing my wife if I file she will just go through with it because she is stubborn... even if she doesn't want it.

With regard to the date.... will be hard but makes total sense!!!!


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## sinnister

manindespair said:


> Thanks for this message.
> 
> No, I am not the legal father of the stepdaughter but to be honest on that one I really will go with my belief that even though they are not mine by blood.... they are totally mine in reality. They have called me Dad for over 13 years and I have always treated them like my own.
> 
> I see your point about not letting them see I am a wimp.... the last thing I would want to do is not give them the correct road to take.
> 
> Divorce at her pace..... point makes sense. Knowing my wife if I file she will just go through with it because she is stubborn... even if she doesn't want it.
> 
> With regard to the date.... will be hard but makes total sense!!!!


Sorry you're going through this man. But I think you need to understand that she DOES want a divorce. Now..later it doesn't really matter to her. Women don't rent appartments to read and have time away unless they don't want to be with that person anymore. It's hard to let go when it's over but...you're right when you say you have no choice.

This trial seperation is code speak for "bang other dudes while I keep you on the hook just in case things don't work out".


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## SunnyT

It's all about taking control of your own life. 

She changed everything when she cheated. SHE does not get to call the shots anymore. You have to do what works for you, and for the kids. YOU have to show them what a stable, sane, committed parent/partner looks like. 

We don't take little vacations from the marriage. She has to be all in, or not. 

And 3 weeks seems dumb. Wth? That's about enough time to settle in a new place....then pack up and move back. How can that solve anything? How can she even imagine that a light bulb will go off in that time? 

I'd have to be upfront and just say, "If you go, there's no coming back. THIS is not how marriage works. We face things together or we go our separate ways. Period." 

Good for you for being there for all the kids. They didn't ask for this crap and they need someone to be stable.


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## Rowan

So, she wants to set up a date with you in three weeks? Three weeks sounds about right. That's a fair amount of time to get your attorney going on drawing up the divorce paperwork, opening new accounts in your name only, transferring your money into your accounts, closing all jointly held credit cards, cancelling any cell phone plans she's using, cancelling any other payments you're making on her behalf (like for that apartment), dividing jointly held assets (car titles, etc.), and boxing all her stuff up to have it delivered to her apartment. Oh, and for telling the children that you love Mommy but that Mommy is going through some stuff and making decisions that you simply aren't willing to either support or suffer through. And for figuring out what you'd like to do, and what will be legally possible to do, regarding custody arrangements.

Yeah, three weeks should do it.


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## barbados

Despair,

You are going about this all wrong. You cannot "nice" cheaters out of affairs. You need to be strong and decisive here, you are being weak.

Your WW wants a private apt. so she can bang the POSOM, or whoever else, whenever she wants. The fact that she would even suggest this shows she has ZERO RSPECT FOR YOU.

She clearly wants to be a walk away wife and mother. If you refuse to file for D, this will be your life for the a long time to come. She will live the life of a single woman, and you will be the parent.


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## Blondilocks

She needs to take the two older children with her. Why? Because she is their mother. The children do not need to feel as though their mother has abandoned them. And, you don't need any possible accusations of misconduct created to affect divorce outcome.

So she wants to be a single mother - let her. Let her see what it looks like when you take control and don't let her walk all over you.

Plus, it will throw a monkey wrench into her plans to have a love nest. If you're not getting any, why should she? Sometimes you have to take your giggles where you can find them.


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## waylan

Revamped said:


> So, by telling her older children about their mother 's affair, OP gets "revenge" on his wife at the expense of her children.
> 
> This information shouldn't come from OP. Period.


Disagree with you here. If the children were young - different story. Once the divorce proceedings begin - the WS will begin a campaign to poison and blameshift the children against OP. If they are teen-agers they can handle and will appreciate the truth.

You can bet she will feed them " Daddy left *US*- I wanted to work things out.. " Meanwhile she will be trying to cut you off from visitation, etc. At least this has been the script for some of my buddies that were good guys that went through a divorce.


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## LongWalk

The fact that she moved out was tactical mistake, but she was desperate to become sexually available. Her liminal mind has hijacked her life and taken her away from her own children, just as they reach the age of independence. This is no coincidence.

I don't think you'll want her back once your understand her.

She has been bored with you for a good while and dreaming about freedom. She started with one affair. I doubt she is sated yet.

But filing for divorce is the best shock for her. 

The date a three weeks is a meaningless promise.


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## Openminded

I agree with Prodigal. 

I divorced after a 45 year marriage and am very comfortable living alone (and had never before had been) so to fear divorce because you might be alone is not the way to look at it. I don't need the presence of another person as a security blanket and you won't either. Forget about what your wife is thinking and focus on you. Be comfortable with yourself and your company. After all, you are all you can really count on.


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## manindespair

Openminded said:


> I agree with Prodigal.
> 
> I divorced after a 45 year marriage and am very comfortable living alone (and had never before had been) so to fear divorce because you might be alone is not the way to look at it. I don't need the presence of another person as a security blanket and you won't either. Forget about what your wife is thinking and focus on you. Be comfortable with yourself and your company. After all, you are all you can really count on.


I think it is the mindset I am struggling with! I never used to mind being on my own and I am trying to work out why I am so co-dependent! Truth is, until all this I used to think I was VERY independent.

I think things took a downturn when my father died 11/09/13 (11 months ago) and I bottled everything up. WW and I seemed ok at that stage (although she said it had been going on for longer) but she did say that I was hard to live with.

Thinking further over the last day or so I know I am totally gutted but I need to start thinking more rationally. I cant let my business get into trouble as this would be letting my kids downs and show my wife that I am weak which is something that I need to avoid at all costs!

Living on my own... well I have no choice..... and I need to get my head round it as I dont want to be pathetic anymore. This has gone on since April and I am still in limbo.... many people on here have tried to help and I have listened and then not done the correct things.

For now... I am just going to pull myself away from her. She got annoyed today because she had to go to work..... maybe this will help her realise that she will need to do this EVERYDAY like most people!


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## Rowan

Oh, and you do not move out of the marital home for any reason. Even if you're in a no-fault divorce state, you want it very clear that she is the one who left and "abandoned" the home/family. Also, even in no-fault states, sometimes infidelity matters in relation to alimony, so keep any evidence you have of her running around and speak with your attorney about it.


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## cuchulain36

Yeah my worst fear with divorce is not losing my wife, but being alone. Being alone terrifies me so I put up with more crap than I should.


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## Marduk

cuchulain36 said:


> Yeah my worst fear with divorce is not losing my wife, but being alone. Being alone terrifies me so I put up with more crap than I should.


As long as this is the case you will always be dominated by your unhealthy relationship with others.

This is how you get used and how your future relationships will fail.

What are you willing to do to work on this?


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## notadoormat

i am wondering..since she wanted to move and leave her 3 bio kids with op...if it also has to do with being somewhat burned out on the responsibilities of life. she has raised children for almost 20 yrs and has 11-12 yrs to go. thats a long time. if that is the case then it may not be so much about the her M to OP. but how she views her life in general. she could have asked the OP to move out and she stay with her children..but i dont see where she did. it appears she loves OP in some degree but does not feel romantically connected to him. but she also chooses not to live with her own kids. we can judge or bash her but that wont figure out where she is in her head n heart which wont help solve OP problems. my mom spread out her kids over several yrs. she got burned out and basically my dad had to finish raising them..she has basically not much to do with her gkids as well. she just lives her life doing what she wants. just a thought to ponder. if she resents to some degree her life she maybe projecting that on OP even though it may not be anything he did wrong. 
m.i.d..hope your doing o.k. this transition time is a challenge emotionally.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manindespair

notadoormat said:


> i am wondering..since she wanted to move and leave her 3 bio kids with op...if it also has to do with being somewhat burned out on the responsibilities of life. she has raised children for almost 20 yrs and has 11-12 yrs to go. thats a long time. if that is the case then it may not be so much about the her M to OP. but how she views her life in general. she could have asked the OP to move out and she stay with her children..but i dont see where she did. it appears she loves OP in some degree but does not feel romantically connected to him. but she also chooses not to live with her own kids. we can judge or bash her but that wont figure out where she is in her head n heart which wont help solve OP problems. my mom spread out her kids over several yrs. she got burned out and basically my dad had to finish raising them..she has basically not much to do with her gkids as well. she just lives her life doing what she wants. just a thought to ponder. if she resents to some degree her life she maybe projecting that on OP even though it may not be anything he did wrong.
> m.i.d..hope your doing o.k. this transition time is a challenge emotionally.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The idea of "burned out on responsibilities of life" rings such a bell on this. 

She cant be bothered to work (I am not involved), socialise as a family (this includes taking the girls out without me), speak to her brother and sis in law, etc etc. Anytime there is a wedding / family function she cant be bothered.....! The thing she can be bothered with is things JUST FOR HER.... Badminton, Gym, Going out with girls, pampering and so on.

Dont get me wrong... she snaps at everything I do but deep down she also shows me she still loves me.

Someone I speak to (a coach) asked me to honestly decide is getting back with her a "Possibility or Pipe Dream".

This was a question I had never asked myself and I am a very realistic person. The truth is..... it is a POSSIBILITY.

A pipe dream is unrealistic but even though she is moving out... day on day she shows more and more reasons to believe. She got the keys to the flat on Monday with the intention of sorting out to live there monday night... she didnt get things sorted so stayed at home. Then last night I even helped her get stuff into the flat so she could move in... Last night she stayed at home saying she "couldnt be bothered" to go there and sort all out.

Today... other things take priority again (SHE WILL BE GOING TONIGHT!!!!).


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## manindespair

There's another thing I am seeing.... more and more realization that this is actually going to happen.

I am starting to make social nights / days out. I have friends coming over tonight.... tomorrow I am going away for a couple of days with our youngest daughter, out Friday night, Out saturday day/night, etc.

My wife said to me... "it's good you are doing all these things but it is FRUSTRATING for me because I am not having the chance to do these yet".

Kinda shows me that she thought I would sit at home and pine for her!!!! I am not that sort of person (well I never used to be anyway), and even if I was pining for her.... I wouldnt let her know about it!.

The 180 says get busy.... do things for you.... that is what I am trying to do but the WW is already noticing I am changing the ways I do things.

I am getting a cleaner for the house.... WW wont be missed
I am going to get the ironing done.... WW wont be missed
I always do the cooking anyway.... WW wont be missed
I take the girls out regularly.... WW wont be missed.

Dont get me wrong.... you ALL know I am in bits... of course I will miss the WW but it seems every time I arrange something to do, she seems to be annoyed at the fact I am doing it!

She obviously doesnt admit she is annoyed but she is!!!


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## farsidejunky

Live well and detach. The reason she does not respect you is because you have not respected yourself. You are starting to do this now. Continue doing things for you, but make sure you are actually doing them for yourself, not in an effort to get her to notice.


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## notadoormat

nice..mr. m.i.d. well done. at this point, keep doing this no matter what motivates the drive to do the 180...just remember however the goal is the benefit of the outcome is just for you and be careful of hope
. also, starting the 180 can be easy..but sticking to it daily can be a real challenge. even if you slip..just say to yourself it happens and try again..its like going into detox. i struggled with 180 bad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## murphy5

manindespair said:


> I am getting a cleaner for the house.... WW wont be missed
> 
> 
> 
> SAHM's seem to think cleaning the house is some sort of gargantuon task. :rofl: I get a team in here that makes the whole place **** and span once a week for $90. money well spent!
Click to expand...


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## manindespair

BIG DEVELOPMENT.... not that I know if it will help or make things 100x worse.

Her mum phoned her to ask how she was. Wife ended up telling her mum that she is moving into a flat. Her mum went absolutely mad saying she has lost the plot and cant abandon her kids. What is she doing? You have everything in life etc etc.... Wife was gutted.

Then her brother text her and went mad at her also. But saying in the text that he is not taking my side and if she doesnt still love me then fair enough.... no-one can tell her how to feel. He then went on to say getting a flat, abandoning children etc etc. He says no mater how you sugar coat this she is walking away from her family.

He did go on to say he loves her and wants to be there for her but sometimes supporting someone means sometimes telling them when they are wrong.

Wife showed me the text.. angry... upset and said " 'F' them all.... do they really think I want to leave my kids???"

I dont know if this will make her go into stubborn mode or realise she is losing EVERYTHING.... what I do know is that it will shock her and make her think.

She even tells them how much she loves me.... how much of a wonderful father and husband I am.

Earlier today... I sorted something out in our cafe that is 'her' business (obviously it is both of ours) and she was in tears saying this is sooooo hard and that I have never let her down. I didnt say anything!!!!

I am keeping out of all the family stuff.... by doing that I cannot give her any ammunition to throw at me.

Wow.... what a day!!!!!


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## manindespair

murphy5 said:


> manindespair said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am getting a cleaner for the house.... WW wont be missed
> 
> 
> 
> SAHM's seem to think cleaning the house is some sort of gargantuon task. :rofl: I get a team in here that makes the whole place **** and span once a week for $90. money well spent!
> 
> 
> 
> This is what I am getting at... the more I cover the stuff she does... the more she understands that I dont need her. I am only with her because I want to!!!!:smthumbup:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## SamuraiJack

manindespair said:


> My wife said to me... "it's good you are doing all these things but it is FRUSTRATING for me because I am not having the chance to do these yet".


Keep doing this. She has eaten too much cake. Now its time for her to eat something else. She has obviously ridden on your coatails and led a spoiled life.
Now she has screwed it up.

Keep going with the 180 and try not to let the facade crack.
THIS is your only chance that can be nurtured to greater than 10%.
Stay the course and come back when you feel yourself slipping.

Even if it doesnt work...you will be a better person for it.

If I had done a proper 180 on my wife, we might still be together.
But then again, looking at things now, I'm glad I didnt suceed.


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## cbnero

My regret isn't the divorce. It's being a doormat. Begging, pleading, accepting terrible verbal and emotional abuse, letting her lead me to believe I wasnt worth anything. 

Detach from this woman. Work on yourself. The sooner you do, the better off you will be. 

Going thru hell? Keep on going!

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## turnera

Your wife doesn't know how to be anything but a spoiled princess. Let her. Let her go off and live this fantasy world she thinks will finally fulfill her. While you raise your kids (and hopefully retain all the money and legal rights). 

Eventually, she's going to realize that SHE is the one people are whispering about, SHE is the one no one wants to be around any more, SHE is the one the kids have given up on, and suddenly you won't look so boring and vanilla and doormatish. 

I just hope that by that time you've wised up and will no longer let her drag you around by the leash.


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## murphy5

manindespair said:


> Earlier today... I sorted something out in our cafe that is 'her' business (obviously it is both of ours) and she was in tears saying this is sooooo hard and that I have never let her down. I didnt say anything!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> omg, that triggered me bad. I had a friend who had a POS wife that was shacking up with a drug dealer when he thought she was a hard working café owner. Turns out, she did not pay state sales tax for 5 years, and he had no idea she was hiding those finances from him. During the divorce it all came out, and the tax guys had a hard time believing that *he *did not know that *she *was a crook as well as a cheating pos!
Click to expand...


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## notadoormat

beware one thing m.i.d....if her family starts guilt tripping her she may choose to stay out of guilt..while considering childrren is importanta reconciliation based only on children and guilt trips rarely if ever work. 

there has to be romantic desire..attraction attachment etc. 

just keep staying on your 180. finding out our spouses did what they did can make our heads spin..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## notadoormat

@murphy..i just saw your post. same sort of thing happened to my dad my mom was a sahm. she kicked my dad out..she was having affair that came out later..she froze all his assets..during.divorce he discovered she had not paid property taxes for a very long time on their investment properties and currently in foreclosure w auction dates. he was able through his lawyer to save them the day before the auction. she assumed all bills. so it happens. its very important for both people ina marriage to stay up on finances. if one is keeping the other on the dark their is a problem..like mine did which was drugs and i nearly lost my home. it was in foreclosure. H got caught lost his job pulled his Retirment and saved our home and paid off all bills. finances are so important that both need to stay aware. or you could lose a home a business your credit etc. my credit destroyed but all bills finally paid and now comes the work of rebuilding. i advise that during a seperation if their is intent to R..or hold off divorce due to money may want to consider to file legally seperated if your in a community property state.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

When she shows you the communications from her family, what does she expect you to say?

I would not tell her that she is deserting her children. She is doing it because she hungers the single life and cannot imagine being mom and dating. She is hunting for a new exciting man. That is a full time job in her mind.

Her reluctance to move out is a classic example of action speaking louder than words. The actual transition to leaving is actually hard because it is real. 

Getting her into that apartment will speed up the process of you splitting or reconciling.

She needs to see a psychologist or some other talk therapist.


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## manindespair

LongWalk said:


> When she shows you the communications from her family, what does she expect you to say?
> 
> I would not tell her that she is deserting her children. She is doing it because she hungers the single life and cannot imagine being mom and dating. She is hunting for a new exciting man. That is a full time job in her mind.
> 
> Her reluctance to move out is a classic example of action speaking louder than words. The actual transition to leaving is actually hard because it is real.
> 
> Getting her into that apartment will speed up the process of you splitting or reconciling.
> 
> She needs to see a psychologist or some other talk therapist.


I cannot agree with you more.... she struggles because she deep down never thought she would be in this situation.

Her therapist thought the trial sep was a good idea.... she went with it.

Then when it comes to actually doing it she is struggling


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## Openminded

She apparently had this idealistic dream of a great life in her new place -- with everyone supporting her and telling her they understood her need for solitude. Instead she's hearing things she doesn't want to hear and she's angry about her lack of support. Will she really go after her support system has bailed on her? Will she stay but not work on your marriage? You need to be ready to deal with anything because her applecart is tipping over.


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## turnera

What scares me is that she'll decide she has to keep the kids, to look better.


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## Prodigal

manindespair said:


> " 'F' them all.... do they really think I want to leave my kids???"
> 
> I dont know if this will make her go into stubborn mode or realise she is losing EVERYTHING.... what I do know is that it will shock her and make her think.
> 
> She even tells them how much she loves me.... how much of a wonderful father and husband I am.


Sounds like she is talking out both sides of her mouth. And also covering all her bases.

After all, she doesn't want to look like the bad guy. I also imagine that she is considering that her life in the apartment might not pan out.

Do you think she is feeding you this crap because she wants to keep you as Plan B?

Does she really want to leave her kids? Well, DUH ... obviously. She IS leaving her kids, isn't she?

I'm glad you are pulling back. This woman sounds like a huge cake-eater. And my take on cake-eaters: disgusting creatures. JMO.


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## notadoormat

i am well versed in delflections projections minimizations strategies. 
it appears she is deflecting..she did choose to leave but had not the forethought of how she would be viewed by her family. just part of the process. not too many people want to look bad. she is going to do and say stuff possibly now to avoid negative emotions from guilty selfish choices. defense mechanisms. not all do this but some. i need to be careful with my all never always statements. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## manindespair

So... even more update (moving quick nowadays!!!!).

Her father text her saying he needs to meet her "when and where?". She responded saying she didnt want to be attacked etc but actually he come back with a real fatherly "I will support you. Relationships are hard and you need to work at them" etc etc etc. Wife showed me and was almost in tears... very emotional.

I said to her that I know her better than anyone and once she has something in her mind she has to do it whether right or wrong to get it out of her mind. I said I didnt agree with her and I didnt want her saying to people that I did. I said that I cannot live with her at the moment as I need a break from her talking to me like craaaap. But I reiterated that I do not agree with her walking out and leaving the kids.

I then said "Wife, I am not stupid, and even if you still wont admit it you are dying inside with guilt"

She laughed and said "NO... never feel guilt haha"

I said " dont talk Sht"... she laughed and said of course she does... never felt so guilty in her life (she has never admitted any guilt over anything in the 14 years I have known her.... she wasnt lying for once).

I then said " I am the only one who really knows you. You are so insecure with yourself but dont like to show it"

She said " I hide it well dont I"
I said " not to me. That's why you went near the OM, bcause he was younger and made you feel like you werent gtting old"

She agreed!

I basically told her that I think we need a break from eachother as I cannot take her speaking to me the way she has. I said I dont know if we will work but I can guarantee that unless we spend some time apart, and she works out why she gets angry all the time.... we have no future.

She agreed and said she wants a future with us as a family.

We had a good convo... she said that she does need some space but maybe I could stay at the apartment sometimes and she could othertimes. She said that now that she has it there she feels a weight has lifted etc etc. But she did say she didnt want to dessert the kids or the home.


Guys.... I am not stupid.... this all sounds positive but could still be a place for her to see him when she needs. How do I work this out? She is finally starting to say some of the right things and I do believe she meant them at the time but at what stage do I know if this is all fake or real?


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## toonaive

Easy. Keep on track. Keep up 180. Work on yourself, take care of your life and children. You can listen to what she says, but you most definitely cannot trust her words. Only actions.


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## bandit.45

Until the OM is out of the picture, she will keep stringing you along and this situation will never get resolved. 

File for divorce. I guarantee she will make up her mind real quick.


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## Stonewall

My friend you have been and continue to be plan B. Do yourself a favor and make you plan A for a change. It will be hard. I understand. I can only tell you I will never be plan B again. Neverrrrrr!


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## samyeagar

manindespair said:


> So... even more update (moving quick nowadays!!!!).
> 
> Her father text her saying he needs to meet her "when and where?". She responded saying she didnt want to be attacked etc but actually he come back with a real fatherly "I will support you. Relationships are hard and you need to work at them" etc etc etc. Wife showed me and was almost in tears... very emotional.
> 
> I said to her that I know her better than anyone and once she has something in her mind she has to do it whether right or wrong to get it out of her mind. I said I didnt agree with her and I didnt want her saying to people that I did. I said that I cannot live with her at the moment as I need a break from her talking to me like craaaap. But I reiterated that I do not agree with her walking out and leaving the kids.
> 
> I then said "Wife, I am not stupid, and even if you still wont admit it you are dying inside with guilt"
> 
> She laughed and said "NO... never feel guilt haha"
> 
> I said " dont talk Sht"... she laughed and said of course she does... never felt so guilty in her life (she has never admitted any guilt over anything in the 14 years I have known her.... she wasnt lying for once).
> 
> I then said " I am the only one who really knows you. You are so insecure with yourself but dont like to show it"
> 
> She said " I hide it well dont I"
> I said " not to me. That's why you went near the OM, bcause he was younger and made you feel like you werent gtting old"
> 
> She agreed!
> 
> I basically told her that I think we need a break from eachother as I cannot take her speaking to me the way she has. I said I dont know if we will work but I can guarantee that unless we spend some time apart, and she works out why she gets angry all the time.... we have no future.
> 
> She agreed and said she wants a future with us as a family.
> 
> We had a good convo... she said that she does need some space but maybe I could stay at the apartment sometimes and she could othertimes. She said that now that she has it there she feels a weight has lifted etc etc. But she did say she didnt want to dessert the kids or the home.
> 
> 
> Guys.... I am not stupid.... *this all sounds positive* but could still be a place for her to see him when she needs. How do I work this out? She is finally starting to say some of the right things and I do believe she meant them at the time but at what stage do I know if this is all fake or real?


Not sure I agree with this assessment. She is maneuvering all the pieces to get what she wants...a place of her own to have the man she really desires, access to the kids without the responsibility, saving face with the family, and keeping her husband without the responsibility of being married...actually looking at it again...you're absolutely right...very positive for her.


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## Rayloveshiswife

She needs to start doing things on your terms. If she wants to stay at The house with the kids. That's fine. But your not leaving the house. She wants to be with the kids so she can feel better about what she is doing. Having you there will not allow her to feel better about it. Do not stay at the apartment so she can spend time with the kids. 

I also don't think this has played out long enough for her to hit rock bottom yet. 

If she wants to start to come back it has to happen on your terms and involve total removal of the OM from both your lives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bandit.45

She's cake eating. Nothing new here. Same old same old.


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## Yeswecan

manindespair said:


> She agreed and said she wants a future with us as a family. At this point she should have to earn it.
> 
> We had a good convo... she said that she does need some space but maybe I could stay at the apartment sometimes and she could othertimes. She said that now that she has it there she feels a weight has lifted etc etc. But she did say she didnt want to dessert the kids or the home. Finding escape from life does not include having an apartment to do what one wishes and with whom. For this to work separation is not the key. She is either all in or not. Noted above, she agreed to a future and family with you. A hot pad down the street is not a future or family with you. Stop the cake eating!!! She is driving this like a team of horses. Expose and turn 180.


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## GusPolinski

manindespair said:


> We had a good convo... she said that she does need some space but *maybe I could stay at the apartment sometimes* and she could othertimes. She said that now that she has it there she feels a weight has lifted etc etc. But she did say she didnt want to dessert the kids or the home.


Well, make sure that you bring a clean set of sheets w/ you.

And as for her not wanting to desert the kids, let's be clear on this... She doesn't want to *APPEAR* to be deserting the kids. There is a difference.



manindespair said:


> Guys.... I am not stupid.... this all sounds positive but could still be a place for her to see him when she needs.


The word "could" tends to imply a mere possibility, which I think is absolutely incorrect.

Anyway, I don't think that you're stupid; *INSANELY naive*, maybe, but not stupid.

Either way, if you want to know for sure, make a habit of dropping by from time to time. Bring the kids.

Do you know where OM lives? What kind of car does he drive?

Who picked out the apartment? How far is it from your home?



manindespair said:


> How do I work this out? She is finally starting to say some of the right things and I do believe she meant them at the time but at what stage do I know if this is all fake or real?


She's starting to say some of the right things because you've given her enough time to figure out what she needs to say in order to keep stringing you along.


----------



## Chaparral

manindespair said:


> I think it is the mindset I am struggling with! I never used to mind being on my own and I am trying to work out why I am so co-dependent! Truth is, until all this I used to think I was VERY independent.
> 
> I think things took a downturn when my father died 11/09/13 (11 months ago) and I bottled everything up. WW and I seemed ok at that stage (although she said it had been going on for longer) but she did say that I was hard to live with.
> 
> Thinking further over the last day or so I know I am totally gutted but I need to start thinking more rationally. I cant let my business get into trouble as this would be letting my kids downs and show my wife that I am weak which is something that I need to avoid at all costs!
> 
> 
> 
> Living on my own... well I have no choice..... and I need to get my head round it as I dont want to be pathetic anymore. This has gone on since April and I am still in limbo.... many people on here have tried to help and I have listened and then not done the correct things.
> 
> For now... I am just going to pull myself away from her. She got annoyed today because she had to go to work..... maybe this will help her realise that she will need to do this EVERYDAY like most people!


This seems to indicate she isn't paying for her new lifestyle. Is that correct?


----------



## notadoormat

they own a business together..i think joint money from business. op will have to say if they have seperate accts i dont think its been mentioned. he works at business i think and she wks when she wants to it appears.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

bandit.45 said:


> Until the OM is out of the picture, she will keep stringing you along and this situation will never get resolved.
> 
> File for divorce. I guarantee she will make up her mind real quick.


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Openminded

Of course having an apartment is the perfect setup for her to see the OM or someone else. Even if she swears she won't and I'm guessing she hasn't said that. 

You obviously can't control what she does when she's there. You need to go into this accepting that's very likely. And hope the thought doesn't drive you crazy.


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## SamuraiJack

Get her into the apartment and above all else STOP LISTENING TO HER.

180 Her and ONLY judge her by her actions.
Words are what people like this use to confuse you and keep you on your left foot.
Crocodiles cry tears when they are eating their prey...that doesnt mean they are sad. 
Her comments about how well she hides things and that she's pretty good at it are PRIDEFUL responses.
People only give prideful responses when they have been acknowledged for something THEY KNOW IS TRUE.

Princess needs to take a fall in order to shake the fascade she has built. She needs a good rude awakening to understand she either needs to start working together or to just leave.

In the meantime think about it this way.
You just called your wife out on being false.
She not only didnt deny it, but was proud of it.

You really want that crap in your life?


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## turnera

Move the divorce through while she's still agreeing to it. Get her ass OUT of your house NOW so you can establish a pattern of custody so she can't take the kids away from you and so it will be YOU staying in the home because it will be YOU who should have custody and the kids need their home.

It will do two things: protect you legally, financially, and custodially; and 2) SHOW her that you're a man, not a mouse, which will cause her to admire you again and maybe stop cheating.

Neither of those will happen if you kiss her ass and try to nice her back home. When she suggested that YOU spend some time at the apartment, you should have fallen on the floor because you were laughing so hard.


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## FormerSelf

I'm a little late in game here, but I think, OP, it would suit you better to stop being your wife's friend for the time being. She is totally getting fed cake this way...with you being her emotional support through this "oh-so-horrible" time in her life, while she is preparing to get a good rogering from OM. 

The fact that you are open to her emotional rollercoaster and she comes running to you when her family members are "mean" to her shows that she hasn't quite counted the cost of her selfishness...which is why you have to cut her off in all areas. Tell her she needs to be out by such-and-such date. This "trial-separation" of hers can't happen soon enough.


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## murphy5

manindespair said:


> She agreed and said she wants a future with us as a family.


yeah, that's possible. 
and possibly you CAN keep your same doctor under obamacare!
and possibly you CAN give a sucker an even break!
and possibly you CAN eat something bigger than your head!


----------



## Lostinthought61

Man....you realize you once again have allowed her to sow her wild oats....i want you thinking about this while you play the good husband and dad she will be having sex with this guy because basically he and she can and once she has gotten it out of her system she will come back......and play the perfect...while laughing behind your back....please i beg you please man up and don't take this crap...if you really want to ensure she is spending the time on her self send one of the kids with her....you can not trust her....how can you ever trust her again....leave her brother...we have your back she doesn't


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## slimstickums

Agreed


----------



## Marduk

manindespair said:


> She agreed and said she wants a future with us as a family.
> 
> We had a good convo... she said that she does need some space but maybe I could stay at the apartment sometimes and she could othertimes.


Translation: she might let you come around when the other guy is unavailable, and she might let you come back into the relationship if the other guy dumps her.

Dude, you're not even plan B. You're like a distant plan C.


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## AliceA

I think you're doing the right thing in getting her out of the house. It's probably going to end in divorce, but at least you won't have to prolong the agony anymore. Trial separation... has always sounded like a way to take a little step before the big step of divorce, just so you don't have to do it all at once. Take the little step, it'll help you realise you won't actually die because she's not there.


----------



## cbnero

Just some food for thought - not sure if you are filing D or not. I didn't want to, but my attorney said sometimes people like her are more agreeable when they have feelings of guilt vs months later. Sometimes if you wait, the BS life starts to improve because they do the work necessary to recover while the WS life implodes because of dumb choices. The WS sees this and feelings of hatred get projected onto the BS and at that time the divorce can get really nasty.

_Posted via *Topify* on Android_


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## manindespair

Stonewall said:


> My friend you have been and continue to be plan B. Do yourself a favor and make you plan A for a change. It will be hard. I understand. I can only tell you I will never be plan B again. Neverrrrrr!


Where are you with your situation now?


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## turnera

Which is why you get the agreement NOW, while she's willing, before she turns into Godzilla when she sees the money she's going to be losing. And she will. We see it every time.


----------



## manindespair

bandit.45 said:


> She's cake eating. Nothing new here. Same old same old.


The strange thing is that she is talking about giving the flat to our 19 year old to live in. She says about the fact for the moment lets see if things do keep getting better and then her and her bf can have it as their first place.

Last night I was out with the little one.... she stayed home with the older ones.

Tonight I am out.... she is sitting in with the little one

I agree with the cake eating comment totally.... but at what stage do I just wait and see when her mentality changes back to the WW? As she seems to be trying... do I still cut her off now? I have distanced myself... trying 180 and not needy at all (in fact the opposite in front of her.... couldnt care less).

Do I push her out now? Or wait until she says "I need space" again and then say "well you can stay there forever for all I care"


----------



## manindespair

GusPolinski said:


> Well, make sure that you bring a clean set of sheets w/ you.
> 
> And as for her not wanting to desert the kids, let's be clear on this... She doesn't want to *APPEAR* to be deserting the kids. There is a difference.
> 
> 
> 
> The word "could" tends to imply a mere possibility, which I think is absolutely incorrect.
> 
> Anyway, I don't think that you're stupid; *INSANELY naive*, maybe, but not stupid.
> 
> Either way, if you want to know for sure, make a habit of dropping by from time to time. Bring the kids.
> 
> Do you know where OM lives? What kind of car does he drive?
> 
> Who picked out the apartment? How far is it from your home?
> 
> 
> 
> She's starting to say some of the right things because you've given her enough time to figure out what she needs to say in order to keep stringing you along.


Yes I know where the bloke lives.....

Apartment is 2 minutes from our house.... She picked it but asked me to come and view it with her


----------



## manindespair

Chaparral said:


> This seems to indicate she isn't paying for her new lifestyle. Is that correct?


for 3 weeks we will make no change. After that, if she wants to continue we separate all finances, she receives no salary from my business and she needs to cope on her own


----------



## manindespair

notadoormat said:


> they own a business together..i think joint money from business. op will have to say if they have seperate accts i dont think its been mentioned. he works at business i think and she wks when she wants to it appears.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Correct - ish.

She owns a cafe (well both of ours but officially hers). This is our play money

I own another business which is the main bread winner.

Her business is somewhere she works when she is short staffed but in general she is a lady of leisure. Her business could never pay all her bills if she left me.... she would have to get a full time job


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## manindespair

SamuraiJack said:


> Get her into the apartment and above all else STOP LISTENING TO HER.
> 
> 180 Her and ONLY judge her by her actions.
> Words are what people like this use to confuse you and keep you on your left foot.
> Crocodiles cry tears when they are eating their prey...that doesnt mean they are sad.
> Her comments about how well she hides things and that she's pretty good at it are PRIDEFUL responses.
> People only give prideful responses when they have been acknowledged for something THEY KNOW IS TRUE.
> 
> Princess needs to take a fall in order to shake the fascade she has built. She needs a good rude awakening to understand she either needs to start working together or to just leave.
> 
> In the meantime think about it this way.
> You just called your wife out on being false.
> She not only didnt deny it, but was proud of it.
> 
> You really want that crap in your life?


Sorry to disagree mate but wasnt the case.... she was being sarcastic and went back on it straight away. She admits she is crap at secrets and her 'personality changes' give her away


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## turnera

manindespair said:


> at what stage do I just wait and see when her mentality changes back to the WW? As she seems to be trying... do I still cut her off now? I have distanced myself... trying 180 and not needy at all (in fact the opposite in front of her.... couldnt care less).
> 
> Do I push her out now? Or wait until she says "I need space" again and then say "well you can stay there forever for all I care"


How many times do we have to tell you THE SAME THING? You cut her off NOW, you act like an alpha for once and tell her to get the hell out if she doesn't want to invest in you because you can find better, you finalize the paperwork (you can always cancel it later), and you help her move out. 

SUDDENLY you will look like a god to her. She'll be scrambling to save you. And THEN, you'll lay down the law - your terms to be WILLING to LET her stay with you.


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## manindespair

Xenote said:


> Man....you realize you once again have allowed her to sow her wild oats....i want you thinking about this while you play the good husband and dad she will be having sex with this guy because basically he and she can and once she has gotten it out of her system she will come back......and play the perfect...while laughing behind your back....please i beg you please man up and don't take this crap...if you really want to ensure she is spending the time on her self send one of the kids with her....you can not trust her....how can you ever trust her again....leave her brother...we have your back she doesn't


I get ya... f'in hard situation when you are in it though....

Look you have all been through this...... It's a real life and f'in hard


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## manindespair

cbnero said:


> Just some food for thought - not sure if you are filing D or not. I didn't want to, but my attorney said sometimes people like her are more agreeable when they have feelings of guilt vs months later. Sometimes if you wait, the BS life starts to improve because they do the work necessary to recover while the WS life implodes because of dumb choices. The WS sees this and feelings of hatred get projected onto the BS and at that time the divorce can get really nasty.
> 
> _Posted via *Topify* on Android_


Thanks for this advice.... appreciated!


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## manfromlamancha

So I am confused now - is she moving into the apartment or not? Where does she live now ? And what is her current stance on your marriage ? Does she still see the POSOM ? Four simple questions (I hope) which will clarify stuff.


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## farsidejunky

*Re: Re: Trial separation - No choice or divorce*



turnera said:


> How many times do we have to tell you THE SAME THING? You cut her off NOW, you act like an alpha for once and tell her to get the hell out if she doesn't want to invest in you because you can find better, you finalize the paperwork (you can always cancel it later), and you help her move out.
> 
> SUDDENLY you will look like a god to her. She'll be scrambling to save you. And THEN, you'll lay down the law - your terms to be WILLING to LET her stay with you.


Read this three times MID. SHOW her you are to be respected and not be trifled with.


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## brendanoco

manindespair said:


> *for 3 weeks we will make no change*. After that, if she wants to continue we separate all finances, she receives no salary from my business and she needs to cope on her own


Make the change now. you are funding her lifestyle which includes Fu*king another man. 

manindespair your wife wont respect you until you kick her out and cut her off


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## turnera

Why are you waiting? That is SO beta it's not even funny. If she has the apartment already, tell her to get out now. Show her that you can be an alpha.


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## SamuraiJack

manindespair said:


> Sorry to disagree mate but wasnt the case.... she was being sarcastic and went back on it straight away. She admits she is crap at secrets and her 'personality changes' give her away


Point is she is still not playing it straight with you.
You just admitted she is gaming you.

Kick her out and wake her up.


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## Blondilocks

manfromlamancha said:


> So I am confused now - is she moving into the apartment or not? Where does she live now ? And what is her current stance on your marriage ? Does she still see the POSOM ? Four simple questions (I hope) which will clarify stuff.


This situation is reminiscent of Abbott & Costello's "Who's on First" skit.


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## Marduk

manindespair said:


> at what stage do I just wait and see when her mentality changes back to the WW?


You don't wait. You act now like you're single.

Because you kind of are.


> As she seems to be trying...


Trying to do what?

Keep you somewhat in the game so she has a plan B?



> Do I push her out now? Or wait until she says "I need space" again and then say "well you can stay there forever for all I care"


No.

Eject her now. From every aspect of your life possible.

If she comes crawling back, deal with it then.


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## AliceA

Does she want a trial separation or not, because she seems to be stuffing you around. *If* things keep getting better then daughter can have the apartment. Well, what if things aren't always *better*? What if you have a bad week? We all have ups and downs in our relationships. Is she going to go running back to the OM if you're both having a few difficulties, will all this talk about living separately come up again?

That's what I'd want to know. Is she in this for real or is she just in it for the *good* times. Screw the good time only people, they aren't cut out for real life, and I personally wouldn't waste my time on one.


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## Openminded

And now I see why she wants the apartment and doesn't want a divorce. She would have to get a real job if divorce is involved. No divorce, no real job. Just continue a life of leisure and freedom at the apartment when she chooses.


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## manindespair

manfromlamancha said:


> So I am confused now - is she moving into the apartment or not? Where does she live now ? And what is her current stance on your marriage ? Does she still see the POSOM ? Four simple questions (I hope) which will clarify stuff.


I wish they were simple.... she has the apartment but not moved into it yet. She says she will but hasnt yet.

She is at home everynight

She wants marriage to work but needs to get head straight (so she says)

No.... he is not interested


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## manindespair

breeze said:


> Does she want a trial separation or not, because she seems to be stuffing you around. *If* things keep getting better then daughter can have the apartment. Well, what if things aren't always *better*? What if you have a bad week? We all have ups and downs in our relationships. Is she going to go running back to the OM if you're both having a few difficulties, will all this talk about living separately come up again?
> 
> That's what I'd want to know. Is she in this for real or is she just in it for the *good* times. Screw the good time only people, they aren't cut out for real life, and I personally wouldn't waste my time on one.


I keep saying to her when is she going.... no answers. I think its tonight as I went out last night and she looked after little one. I said I am staying in tonight so I guess she will be out


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## LongWalk

Man in Despair,

Good name choice because it will show how far you have sailed. You are getting good advice but you are having trouble executing it. Understandably it is real life you are struggling with and not some online fantasy game. Rest assured the posters who urge you to be tough are rather experienced. You are getting counsel of worth.

Your situation is similar to Dadof2's whose WW is perhaps coming down from the high of intercourse with POSOM. But she cannot yet bring herself to say she wants her old life back. Indeed, the pre-affair marriage, good as it may have been lacked excitement. She was fvcking the assistant principal, her senior colleague. She has seen his body, tasted his sweat. Moreover, she has babysat his kids.

I suspect that fornicating is one thing and babysitting another. Now she has to go back to school with everyone whispering. Getting Dadof2 to take her back may seem like a good repair job to the crashed car that is now her life.

But will it be good for Dof2? Does he want to be with a woman who has junked him for hours of illicit passion. They have kids, so her carnal appetite also cost them.

If Dof2 reconciles with his wife that is his business. As an outside observer, I think such reconciliations are only worthwhile if the wayward becomes:

1) Remorseful that they hurt their spouse. If they are lacking in empathy, then what is the point of the relationship. Do you want to be a woman who cannot feel for you?

2) Grateful that you still desire desire them sexually. If you engage in so-called hysterical bonding with your WW, you want it to be genuinely passionate. If she isn't into it (into you), why bother?

To achieve either of these, I think you need to concentrate her mind. Nothing will be more effective than you being decisive. In a patient manner and without any display of temper or neediness, tell her that your life is now in disorder. The apartment represents a sensible move.

She is looking for an apartment where she can find herself. That makes perfect sense. The ghost of your presence when alternating who is at home will prevent or hinder her self discovery. If she is living like a single adult, she will have time to study, date, meditate, etc.

She can set up an extra bed for the kids and have them over, maybe not all at the same time but one at a time.

Your WW has to see you moving confidently away from your relationship, because at present you are holding it open as an option for her. If that option is being removed, she will think and feel at another level in the more primitive part of her brain. She may feel emotional alarm that she could lose you.

Read RoadScholar's thread. Only when his wife saw divorce in his eyes did she want to have sex with him again.


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## Chaparral

manindespair said:


> I wish they were simple.... she has the apartment but not moved into it yet. She says she will but hasnt yet.
> 
> She is at home everynight
> 
> She wants marriage to work but needs to get head straight (so she says)
> 
> No.... he is not interested


Are you paying for her apartment(love nest)?

What do you mean she will be out tonight?

People in affairs on the fence always talk about needing space and getting their head together after they get caught.

Who told you he was no longer interested? Nothing a cheater says can be believed until independently verified.

Assuming she will allow you into the apartment you need to hide a couple of vars there.

If you are paying for this apt, make sure you have a key to it.


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## GusPolinski

manindespair said:


> I wish they were simple.... she has the apartment but not moved into it yet. She says she will but hasnt yet.
> 
> She is at home everynight
> 
> She wants marriage to work but needs to get head straight (so she says)
> 
> *No.... he is not interested*


There is a big difference between OM not being interested in a relationship w/ your wife and OM not being interested in banging your wife.

And besides... *who's the say that he was the only OM?!?*


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## turnera

manindespair said:


> I keep saying to her when is she going.... no answers. I think its tonight as I went out last night and she looked after little one. I said I am staying in tonight so I guess she will be out


If she goes out tonight, tell her you're packing her stuff while she's gone and it will be waiting by the door.


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## ifweonly

Listen guy, if my wife was getting banged by another ****, she would have been out of the door YESTERDAY!!! I don't care if she did not have a place to go -- live on the street and let him have you there.

Man up and file for divorce ASAP, see an attorney ASAP and get your finances separated ASAP. If you don't, then you can kiss your business GOOD BY and you will be the one living hand to mouth. 

Get off of the fence and get busy and stop placating your emotions. If she really wanted to make your marriage work screwing OM behind your back is NOT the way to do it. Get real and get to work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## LongWalk

How are you doing?


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## sammy3

GusPolinski said:


> There is a big difference between OM not being interested in a relationship w/ your wife and OM not being interested in banging your wife.
> 
> And besides... *who's the say that he was the only OM?!?*


This is sooo true.

~sammy


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## LongWalk

Machiavelli would have noted that OP was the provider just until the point the step children were old enough to make it. Subconsciously she was using OP to raise her first two children. This undermined their relationship.

She did not respect him because he accepted this role. However, she is certain he will be a good father to his own biological child even if she divorces him. In her subconscious ledger of relationship transactions, she gave OP sex and child in return for support with the two older chidren. Her passion for the OP, if it ever was strong, died at some point and she began to think about having sex with other men, not just the OM but other men. When OP did not call her on this, and as a mind reader he should have, she lost additional respect for him.

Even if she returns to the marriage, her heart won't be in it, at least for a year and perhaps never.


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## frankman

LOL I was going to post then I saw how long its been since the poster came here. Hope it worked out.

Im amazed at how some men are willing to be so abused. I loved my wife deeply but part of my mind completely rebelled against being with her once I knew she had been with another.


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## frankman

Ahhh! I just responded.


KILL ME!


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## sammy3

frankman said:


> LOL I was going to post then I saw how long its been since the poster came here. Hope it worked out.
> 
> Im amazed at how some men are willing to be so abused. I loved my wife deeply but part of my mind completely rebelled against being with her once I knew she had been with another.


Frankman, 

You squarely hit it on the head! So did you D or separated? 

~sammy


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## weightlifter

He is divorced about two weeks now.

Affair likely ended about the same time. Mikey had a new toy.


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