# wife still in love with ex boyfriend.



## skyhawk

My wife is a very religious lady and always has been.

We have been together for 24 years now, during that time there have been occasions where She has had crushes on other guys, as happens to any normal woman.

While we were engaged her family convinced her to see the world, during that trip she met another guy and he became a boyfriend with whom she became very intimate (leaving her wracked with guilt), she never told me, but had a struggle deciding if she would marry him instead of me.

When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.

Eventually we settled into a routine, but sometimes when she had a good orgasm she would cry out his name, then of course be embarrassed and try to deny it. Sex became almost non-existent for many years, eventually she admitted the affair to me, but never furnished the whole story because she just wanted to forget it and move on.

I told her she should go and be with him, but he had moved on with his life, married with kids, like us. Through the years there was every kind of counseling, both religious and general but nothing really helped.

Now all these years later she is finally ready to entertain the possibility of facing up to things, I have told her I want her to go have sex with him and sort out how she feels (he is now single). She is considering it but is scared that it “might not change anything”

If there is anyone who has a situation where going back to have sex with the ex has helped the relationship can you please share, need some evidence for her. For me, I just don’t want to live a lie anymore, I don't mind her having him on the side, but be honest about it.


Would really like to hear from anyone with a similar experience, especially if you've actually done this. Not interested in moralizing opinions from those who have never experienced anything like this.


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## See_Listen_Love

Man, what a sad story. It seems you can write to the heart, so maybe it can be a book sometimes. A lesson for others.

How does she feel about you? Does she really love you??


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## skyhawk

She loves me, we have 3 kids (lost a 4th) together.
She is actually considering breaking her religious views to go and get this out of her system. It's like there's always this shadow over everything that she can't get passed. I am not fool enough to consider this an instant cure, but a way to open herself to having more than one person in her life/mind.


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## LongWalk

If she has sex with him it will for sure change things for the worse as far as your marriage is concerned. The sex with him may be great, but probably it will be a big disappointment because they remember each other as young and beautiful and now they are middleaged.

If she becomes emotionally involved with him, then what?

However, you are not satisfied with your marriage and that is an issue in and of itself. If you are not having sex for long periods of time, you may want out. Perhaps you are hoping one or two things:

1) She will have sex with him and want a divorce and you will be relieved. You can at last start your life over. You are sick of being attached to her emotionally and getting so little back.

2) You believe that you could share her and her heart would be big enough to love you both and your sex life would be better. TAM would say that is not possible. However, some people do have unconventional relationships. Never say never. But she feels her religious guilt so strongly now, how likely is it that it will entirely vanish. 

Are you fed up with her?


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## PBear

I think this is a horribly bad idea. With a very small chance of making things any better, and a huge chance of making things much much worse. Perhaps you should float this idea to your religious leaders and see what they think?

But sorry, you didn't want thoughts from anyone who wasn't foolish enough to consider this... Carry on.

C


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## ILoveSparkles

You don't mind if she has him "on the side"....are you okay with that because you want to have someone else on the side as well?

Or, if she gets the go ahead from you to have sex with this other guy and it doesn't work out, perhaps she will take your openness as a green light to find another man on the side that you don't know about.

I think it's a bad idea. Are you hoping that she will go have sex with him and then use that as the reason to leave the marriage...it would make you look like the good guy and her the bad one.


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## Nucking Futs

There are dozens of threads on this site where your idea was tried and made matters so much worse the marriage ended. There are no threads where it was tried and succeeded.

It's a bad idea. Let her go sleep with the love of her life who is now single? This is supposed to save your marriage? Women respect strength, they despise weakness. Allowing your woman to go sleep with another man is as weak as you can get.

If you proceed with this plan your wife will end your marriage.


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## Caribbean Man

skyhawk said:


> My wife is a very religious lady and always has been.
> 
> We have been together for 24 years now, during that time there have been occasions where She has had crushes on other guys, as happens to any normal woman.
> 
> While we were engaged her family convinced her to see the world, during that trip she met another guy and he became a boyfriend with whom she became very intimate (leaving her wracked with guilt), she never told me, but had a struggle deciding if she would marry him instead of me.
> 
> When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.
> 
> Eventually we settled into a routine, but sometimes when she had a good orgasm she would cry out his name, then of course be embarrassed and try to deny it. Sex became almost non-existent for many years, eventually she admitted the affair to me, but never furnished the whole story because she just wanted to forget it and move on.
> 
> I told her she should go and be with him, but he had moved on with his life, married with kids, like us. Through the years there was every kind of counseling, both religious and general but nothing really helped.
> 
> Now all these years later she is finally ready to entertain the possibility of facing up to things, I have told her I want her to go have sex with him and sort out how she feels (he is now single). She is considering it but is scared that it “might not change anything”
> 
> If there is anyone who has a situation where going back to have sex with the ex has helped the relationship can you please share, need some evidence for her. For me, I just don’t want to live a lie anymore, I don't mind her having him on the side, but be honest about it.
> 
> 
> Would really like to hear from anyone with a similar experience, especially if you've actually done this. Not interested in moralizing opinions from those who have never experienced anything like this.


Sorry,
But I don't think your wife has a problem. Clearly she's not prepared to let go of her mental/emotional connection to this man and obviously she's not in love with you neither will she ever give herself the chance to love you.

Love is a choice.

So how does her having sex with him make her feelings for him go away?
Exactly how does that make her love you more?
You are the victim in all of this sordid scenario. She doesn't want any help, but you _need_ help.

Hence the problem is yours.

What are you prepared to do about it?


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## treyvion

Nucking Futs said:


> There are dozens of threads on this site where your idea was tried and made matters so much worse the marriage ended. There are no threads where it was tried and succeeded.
> 
> It's a bad idea. Let her go sleep with the love of her life who is now single? This is supposed to save your marriage? Women respect strength, they despise weakness. Allowing your woman to go sleep with another man is as weak as you can get.
> 
> If you proceed with this plan your wife will end your marriage.


You literally handed her right to him.


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## sh987

Sorry to hear of your troubles.

I guess I'll pile on with the general consensus and say that I think this is a horrible plan, if the idea is that it will somehow bring you closer/fix the marriage.

If the aim is to put her in another men's bed and end your own marriage, by all means, proceed.


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## F-102

Is this thread for real? Why would you even marry a woman like this? If my W told me that on our honeymoon, I would have had the marriage annulled at once!


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## treyvion

sh987 said:


> Sorry to hear of your troubles.
> 
> I guess I'll pile on with the general consensus and say that I think this is a horrible plan, if the idea is that it will somehow bring you closer/fix the marriage.
> 
> If the aim is to put her in another men's bed and end your own marriage, by all means, proceed.


Putting her in the other bed and ending the marriage could be the overall goal.

"Well if you want to sleep with him, you can."

"You really mean that?"

"Yes, i want you to do what you really want to do. However if you are sleeping with another man, I can only allow that if we are no longer married or on the way to divorce"


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## Philat

F-102 said:


> *Is this thread for real?* Why would you even marry a woman like this? If my W told me that on our honeymoon, I would have had the marriage annulled at once!


I'm not touching it...


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## bandit.45

Divorce her. 

She may love you in a sisterly way, and may look at you as a good guy who cares for her and supports her and her kids; but do you really want to spend your life with a partner who has so little respect for you, who does not desire you, who thinks about another man while she has sex with you?

Why do you value yourself so little as to allow her to treat you this way? 

This woman uses religion to hide her guilt. I guarantee you that if you do allow her to go and have sex with this guy, you will never see her again. 

She is not into you and never was. You are her fallback, her safe bet, her soft landing pad.....not her lover. The other man is her lover, and he is the one she wanted to father her children. She settled for you...you will always be Mr. Second Best.


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## Thebes

I don't think I would like being with someone that was in love with someone else. Doesn't sound like she was ever in love with you. You should get out for your own sake, you deserve better.


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## JJG

I doubt you will find anyone on here that will agree that this is a good idea.

My advice - do some soul searching/get some counselling and find out why you have such low self esteem. Then start working to improve it.

You deserve so much better than this treatment.

Don't forget that your kids are looking at your relationship and learning the skills that they will take forward into their own relationships. Right now they are learning that its ok for mummy to be completely self absorbed and for daddy to be walked all over.

I hope you find a happy solution.


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## Jellybeans

I can't imagine how sleeping with what seems to be the love of her life, or at minimum, a great love in her life, is going to help your marriage.

Someone above said that it may turn out the sex would be bad. But probably not. because they have a history and it's an emotional connection and when you put emotional connection + sex it is a molotov c0cktail. If she does this, I imagine she would only become more swept up in her feelings for him.

And her crying out his name when she orgasms with you? That is just beyond..


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## Tall Average Guy

skyhawk said:


> For me, I just don’t want to live a lie anymore, I don't mind her having him on the side, but be honest about it.


Why don't you think you deserve better than this type of marriage?


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## Sandfly

skyhawk said:


> My wife is a very religious lady and always has been.
> 
> When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.
> 
> Not interested in moralizing opinions from those who have never experienced anything like this.


I've never experienced anything like this.

I have self-respect.

The first night of the honeymoon would have been the last day she ever saw or heard from me.

I can't even guarantee that I wouldn't have flipped out and thrown her out the window.

Never mind her so-called 'religious' values - she's despicable to have done that to you... and on your honeymoon !


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## richie33

Bad idea. After the first time she screamed out his name during a orgasm , you should have had her bags packed. 
Don't you deserve better than this?


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## SimplyAmorous

This is just a devastating situation, so many wasted years... I am with all the others, Best if she was let go on the Honeymoon..and / or the 1st orgasm another man was shown to be in her soul... her heart was not with you...she has been pining & living a fantasy in her head all these years, I can't imagine how deep , excruciatingly hurtful this would be to the partner who loves with their whole heart... YOU.... 

You deserved so much MORE from the get go....you have been ROBBED by a fantasy ....

I would think a truly religious woman would be more the type to lay down these romantic notions, allowing God, pleading with Him if need be....to heal her from this...to love by choice... the Man God has joined together...to let no other come between.... Instead Fantasy has become her GOD... 

This will destroy your marriage.. Though if I was in your shoes, I would not stay with a partner like this....she should be released...let her attach herself to this "soul mate" she thinks got away...such a belief can be blinding....and wreck many marriages...but you will not be there if she makes that choice....she can not have her cake & eat it too...it's not right... 

Curious about the now single Man in question...has he been contacted? How does he feel about this situation? I can't imagine he would even be comfortable (if he is honorable at all )....to even engage in this scenario...sharing her with her husband !


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## Hicks

I think a basic rule of thumb in a marraige is not to let your wife have sex with other men. Works for me.


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## DvlsAdvc8

I don't see how having sex with him helps anything. It will just make her more attached to him.


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## tulsy

She sounds so religious...a real virgin Marry, screwing around behind your back while you were engaged...calling out his name when she climaxes in bed...how virtuous.

If this is for real, and she has pined away for this OM for the duration of the marriage, then get a divorce, because she was never really your wife, only on paper.


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## seeking sanity

This is an incredibly stupid idea. If she wants to leave you to pursue some fantasy, it is her life to screw up. But there is no reason you should enable it. As someone else pointed out, love is a CHOICE. I would make it extremely clear that if she leaves, that is a ONE WAY door. 

Don't enable this foolishness.


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## barbados

skyhawk said:


> We have been together for 24 years now, *during that time there have been occasions where She has had crushes on other guys,*
> 
> 
> *When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.*
> 
> Eventually we settled into a routine, *but sometimes when she had a good orgasm she would cry out his name,*


Well.... you gave her about 20 + years to many. That's on you my friend. Don't know how another person could give any more direct and clear signal that they didn't love you or desire you sexually.

Why you stayed defies all logic. D now and find a woman who will love and desire you for real.


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## bandit.45

This story seems to get repeated alot on TAM.


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## skyhawk

Nucking Futs said:


> There are dozens of threads on this site where your idea was tried and made matters so much worse the marriage ended. There are no threads where it was tried and succeeded.
> 
> It's a bad idea. Let her go sleep with the love of her life who is now single? This is supposed to save your marriage? Women respect strength, they despise weakness. Allowing your woman to go sleep with another man is as weak as you can get.
> 
> If you proceed with this plan your wife will end your marriage.


Direct me to some of the dozens of threads you claim are here, because in my hours of searching I have not found any.


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## skyhawk

LongWalk said:


> If she has sex with him it will for sure change things for the worse as far as your marriage is concerned. The sex with him may be great, but probably it will be a big disappointment because they remember each other as young and beautiful and now they are middleaged.
> 
> If she becomes emotionally involved with him, then what?
> 
> However, you are not satisfied with your marriage and that is an issue in and of itself. If you are not having sex for long periods of time, you may want out. Perhaps you are hoping one or two things:
> 
> 1) She will have sex with him and want a divorce and you will be relieved. You can at last start your life over. You are sick of being attached to her emotionally and getting so little back.
> 
> 2) You believe that you could share her and her heart would be big enough to love you both and your sex life would be better. TAM would say that is not possible. However, some people do have unconventional relationships. Never say never. But she feels her religious guilt so strongly now, how likely is it that it will entirely vanish.
> 
> Are you fed up with her?


Thanks Longwalk,
I am looking towards option 2. I don't know what the outcome will be but it's better than fighting the fantasy. 
I am still "in love" with my wife, yes I read all the things about how normal people fall out of romantic love and have something else, but I am not normal. There are some emotions/responses that "normal" people have that I don't understand, the main one is jealousy. 
Before that fated journey she was always capable of holding multiple people in her heart, after it no-one ever got in.
I not fed up with her as such, but fed up with being overshadowed by a fantasy.


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## skyhawk

I sorry to have wasted everyone's time. Seems that the USA is the land of uneducated judgement based on the majority of replies.

My wife and I are friends and business partners, we have a family and if the worst were to happen and we split will manage that arrangement to ensure the best possible outcome for the kids.
If the best case happens she will be able to resolve issues and have more joy in her life (as will I).

For those who don't understand how/why. I am a physicist, my friends refer to me as Sheldon (an allusion to "the big bang theory"), She is the only woman I have ever loved, and certainly the only one who ever cared for me.


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## arbitrator

*Bad Plan, all the way around. It bodes nothing for you other than a "lose-lose" situation!

If it were me, I'd give her the choice to stay and do counseling and from that decide accordingly. Otherwise, I'd tell her not to let the front door hit her in the backside on her way out to her new life, and hopefully for you to a new life all your own!*


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## Theseus

Nucking Futs said:


> It's a bad idea. Let her go sleep with the love of her life who is now single? This is supposed to save your marriage? Women respect strength, they despise weakness. Allowing your woman to go sleep with another man is as weak as you can get.
> 
> If you proceed with this plan your wife will end your marriage.



Ending it might be the best result all around. I don't see where he has anything to lose.


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## Machiavelli

bandit.45 said:


> This story seems to get repeated alot on TAM.


Yeah. But is it Live or is it Memorex?


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## AliceA

I went through this as a young woman. Never consummated my 'first love', went on to a long term relationship and always wondered what it would've been like with the other guy. 

Years later, after I became single again, I sort of fell into a brief relationship with my 'first love', and it was really just an anti-climax. I had a bit of fun, and that was that. I had thought he was special to me because of who he was, but it was more because of the romantic ideas I built up in my head about him and they all went 'poof' as soon I actually tested them. I felt a great deal more for the man I had the long term relationship with, though that didn't work out either.

Not saying this is how it would be with your wife though. She may fall into an EA/PA that could last a very long time. Maybe her romantic ideas will blind her to reality until she's had a full on relationship with him. It's only in the guts of a relationship I think that people really learn about each other. People in the middle of an affair seem to be completely caught up in the excitement of it.


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## ForBetter

Of course he continues to have great appeal-- she never had to face the daily, unglamorous reality of building a life with him. He was always The One That Got Away. In a sense, she has been having a one-sided emotional affair with him all these years, crowding you out.

I don't see her getting him out of her system any time soon, if she becomes intimate with him. It's just a movement in the wrong direction.

What might, eventually, disillusion her is if the two of you divorce and she becomes_ his_ wife. Then she'll find that he has "feet of clay" like any man, but meanwhile it will be too late for the two of you. 

Without her doing an about-face and working earnestly on your marriage, renouncing any further focus on the other man, I'm not sure that your marriage can be salvaged in any way that will be satisfying to you, because it sounds like she is not motivated to invest herself in your relationship.

My parents had an emotionally- and sexually-starved marriage for 60 years, never divorcing, but I could not live that way personally. Only you can know what you are willing to live with.


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## skyhawk

ForBetter said:


> Of course he continues to have great appeal-- she never had to face the daily, unglamorous reality of building a life with him. He was always The One That Got Away. In a sense, she has been having a one-sided emotional affair with him all these years, crowding you out.
> 
> I don't see her getting him out of her system any time soon, if she becomes intimate with him. It's just a movement in the wrong direction.
> 
> What might, eventually, disillusion her is if the two of you divorce and she becomes_ his_ wife. Then she'll find that he has "feet of clay" like any man, but meanwhile it will be too late for the two of you.
> 
> Without her doing an about-face and working earnestly on your marriage, renouncing any further focus on the other man, I'm not sure that your marriage can be salvaged in any way that will be satisfying to you, because it sounds like she is not motivated to invest herself in your relationship.
> 
> My parents had an emotionally- and sexually-starved marriage for 60 years, never divorcing, but I could not live that way personally. Only you can know what you are willing to live with.


She did that 12 years ago, long term counseling, religious counseling, hypnotherapy etc. etc. and it made things miserable for 10 years, the shadow was still there but never allowed to admit it or ever discuss it because she was "healed"

Having a potentially terminal illness has caused her to become very honest, and willing to take steps to fix things any way she can.


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## skyhawk

breeze said:


> I went through this as a young woman. Never consummated my 'first love', went on to a long term relationship and always wondered what it would've been like with the other guy.
> 
> Years later, after I became single again, I sort of fell into a brief relationship with my 'first love', and it was really just an anti-climax. I had a bit of fun, and that was that. I had thought he was special to me because of who he was, but it was more because of the romantic ideas I built up in my head about him and they all went 'poof' as soon I actually tested them. I felt a great deal more for the man I had the long term relationship with, though that didn't work out either.
> 
> Not saying this is how it would be with your wife though. She may fall into an EA/PA that could last a very long time. Maybe her romantic ideas will blind her to reality until she's had a full on relationship with him. It's only in the guts of a relationship I think that people really learn about each other. People in the middle of an affair seem to be completely caught up in the excitement of it.


Thank you breeze, I really appreciate your honesty and sharing.


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## FormerSelf

I'm am going to be as empthatic as I can with this, cos obviously it sounds like you are hurting, that you love your wife, but it is absolutely killing you to know that your wife has been divided in her feelings about this. I can understand your desire for your wife to be happy...and to graduated from this limbo...so I can understand your reasoning for just allowing her to have the freedom to make that choice.

However, something is really wrong in this approach...and it is certainly centered around your wife's lack of maturity about marriage and happiness...a good book for you guys to read is Sacred Marriage :What if God Designed Marriage to Make Us Holy More Than to Make Us Happy? by Gary Thomas.

I can understand your heartache in dealing with a wife who is pining for some other man from her past, but this is ridiculous. I know we live in this modern day and age where we are fully encouraged to "follow your bliss" and that a married life should never be "confining"...but at the same time there has to be some sort of boundaries here! Your wive's selfishness went to great lengths when she told you on wedding night about he longing for this other man...that should have been disclosed and decided on long before...not to be dug up and considered AFTER the exchange of vows. This is a case of some major misleading. But that was then, this is now...

I don't see giving her a pass will improve things...in fact it will probably only add to more of her confusion...and will result in a myriad of unintended emotional consequences involving all parties. Now is the time to set a boundary, to establish some rules for your family...sure, your wife can choose,,,she is free to do so, but if she chooses FAMILY...then you are now embarking on an ALL-OUT plan to forever close the back door and move the family foward without EVER looking back. DONE. If she decides that she just can't go on with other guy, then release her, cut her loose, but you are no NO LONGER her friend, compatriot, warm-shoulder to cry on...and THEN YOU move one with your life, not looking back...that she made a choice and she needs to lie in it...cos how I see it at this point...your wife is an UNHAPPY person. No MAN will ever COMPLETE her. It is not your job to make her happy...you are not capable of this...we weren't meant to...yet we can add to each other's happiness. But if someone is unhappy, lives in this deficit of happiness, and lives through life expecting and training others to think that it is their job to make her happy...something is wrong. Giving her what she wants is not going to work and it will never work. She DOESN'T KNOW what she wants!!!!!! She needs help, needs boundaries, need her husband to draw the line and say NO MORE OF THIS...and you need to do that for yourself...because her pining for this guy is demeaning to your role as a husband. I see you love her and and only want for her to be happy...but this is coming at a loss of your own personal integrity.


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## Cosmos

Whether you're a physicist or you sweep the streets, I don't believe it's a good idea for your W to sleep with her old BF. There's, presumably, a lifetime in between when she was dating him and where you both are now. Besides, as a religious woman, how could she reconcile committing infidelity?

I have very fond memories of my first boyfriend. My parents emigrated and we both ended up marrying other people. I'm now divorced and, I believe, he's also divorced, but would I consider revisiting the distant past with him? No. There's been a whole lifetime in between and I have no illusions that things would be the same as they were all those years ago. Our relationship is a very pleasant memory, but like most memories it belongs in the past.

Your W wasn't forced into marrying you, she made a choice. Frankly, I would suggest some form of counseling to resolve this issue, rather than your W holding on to the past and you agreeing to her living out her fantasy.


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## ForBetter

Consider this: If you encourage her to pursue intimacy with him and she feels guiltier as a result, she may blame you for encouraging her in the first place, and that will be one more wedge driving you apart.

I see great emptiness coming from this.


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## arbitrator

*Let's just say that if I knowingly gave her my express permission to go seek out this old BF and further give her my blessings on letting him lustily tap my wife, for either "his" or possibly for "their" pleasure, say for an extended period of time; and then she finds out that, in being with him, "it" just wasn't all that it was cracked up to be; and then she brings that well-worked-out cooter of hers back home to you for heartfelt solace and loving recreation, would I knowingly want to put my hands, face, or genitalia anywhere near where that lout had been playing? Then you had better think again!

Again I reiterate: I'd tell her "Hell, No!" to her proposition, and if she subsequently exited the door ~ I'd change the locks ~ No questions asked!

That is your wife ~ offer to protect her as such ~ and if she can't live with that, then let her sorry a$$ go! Good riddance in my book!*


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## MrK

skyhawk said:


> Seems that the USA is the land of uneducated judgement based on the majority of replies.


And based on your pompous, arrogant attitude, I'll guess you're a Brit.

I for one am giving a vote for letting her pursue her dream. Your marriage is (or should be) over as it is anyhow, so it can't be much more over if they ride into the sunset together. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that you'd be better off. 

24 years is a long, long time. I don't believe you answered the earlier question as to whether or not they have been in contact. Quite frankly, if I were the other man, I'd be a little freaked about an old flame contacting me out of the blue with a proposal like this. "Emotionally unstable" would be the first thing that comes to mind. "I wonder if she's still hot" would be the second (speaking of which...).

Are things going to get better if you refuse this proposal? NO. Do they have a CHANCE (however slight) of improving if she pursues him? Not likely. But quite frankly, it's your only hope. She's gone as it is right now.

Everyone always says "yes, she loves me". But in my 3+ years here, I've determined that is not always the case. I don't think she does.

Let her go.


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## skyhawk

MrK said:


> And based on your pompous, arrogant attitude, I'll guess you're a Brit.
> 
> I for one am giving a vote for letting her pursue her dream. Your marriage is (or should be) over as it is anyhow, so it can't be much more over if they ride into the sunset together. As a matter of fact, it could be argued that you'd be better off.
> 
> 24 years is a long, long time. I don't believe you answered the earlier question as to whether or not they have been in contact. Quite frankly, if I were the other man, I'd be a little freaked about an old flame contacting me out of the blue with a proposal like this. "Emotionally unstable" would be the first thing that comes to mind. "I wonder if she's still hot" would be the second (speaking of which...).
> 
> Are things going to get better if you refuse this proposal? NO. Do they have a CHANCE (however slight) of improving if she pursues him? Not likely. But quite frankly, it's your only hope. She's gone as it is right now.
> 
> Everyone always says "yes, she loves me". But in my 3+ years here, I've determined that is not always the case. I don't think she does.
> 
> Let her go.


Nah the judgmental "I'm closer to God than you" responses from some of the Brits are just as disappointing.
Thank you for at least taking time to think the situation out.


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## alexm

Cosmos said:


> I have very fond memories of my first boyfriend. My parents emigrated and we both ended up marrying other people. I'm now divorced and, I believe, he's also divorced, but would I consider revisiting the distant past with him? No. There's been a whole lifetime in between and I have no illusions that things would be the same as they were all those years ago. Our relationship was a very pleasant memory, but like most memories it belongs in the past.


I have to play devil's advocate here...

My wife was my first girlfriend (and I, her first boyfriend). We dated for 3 years, then went our separate ways, and each of us had a lifetime - I, married and divorced; her, ltr and kids.

No matter how much I loved my ex wife (and I did), I never forgot my first love. We did get back together, and we're now both happily married. If we buried our pasts with each other and completely moved on, I wouldn't be where I am now.

But, of course, it didn't affect my previous marriage, nor did I ever have the urge to leave my wife, or cry out my ex's name during sex...

We got back together when we were both free and clear of our exes, no funny business went on.


----------



## Cosmos

MrK said:


> And based on your pompous, arrogant attitude, I'll guess you're a Brit.


The OP insults Americans and you decide to insult us Brits. Very mature...:scratchhead:


----------



## alexm

MrK said:


> Quite frankly, if I were the other man, I'd be a little freaked about an old flame contacting me out of the blue with a proposal like this. "Emotionally unstable" would be the first thing that comes to mind. "I wonder if she's still hot" would be the second (speaking of which...).


No kidding, right? Man, if I were single, and my first girlfriend called me up and said "hey, I can't stop thinking about you. My HUSBAND said it's totally okay that you and I try again, and I can totally have sex with you, just to see. And if those feelings are still there, then I can leave my husband. If they're not, then I can go back to him." I would be looking at getting a restraining order asap. Seriously. I don't think I'd even dignify a proposal like that with a response.

I'm wondering if the OP would allow his wife to do this, simply because he assumes the OM would say "no thanks", or he'd just bang her and tell her to gtfo afterwards. Teach his wife a lesson, right...?


----------



## sh987

skyhawk said:


> I sorry to have wasted everyone's time. Seems that the USA is the land of uneducated judgement based on the majority of replies.
> 
> My wife and I are friends and business partners, we have a family and if the worst were to happen and we split will manage that arrangement to ensure the best possible outcome for the kids.
> If the best case happens she will be able to resolve issues and have more joy in her life (as will I).
> 
> For those who don't understand how/why. I am a physicist, my friends refer to me as Sheldon (an allusion to "the big bang theory"), She is the only woman I have ever loved, and certainly the only one who ever cared for me.


I don't see the need to be insulting, especially considering that nobody treated you in such a way. 

a) Reasonable people can hold opposing views without it meaning the one party is a fool, etc.
b) Is it really so strange that the vast majority of people find the idea of sharing your wife to be a disaster waiting to happen? 

My own personal thought is that a marriage involves two people only, and that the presence of a third person weakens the bond of the married couple. You know this through personal experience, as your wife has spent many years putting her romantic feelings into the memory of her old affair partner instead of into you. I'm very sorry that's been your married life, and wouldn't wish it on anybody.

I don't think you need to put your wife into his bed to get some resolution, but it's something you say you're fine with. Others have expressed the same thoughts only to be faced with horror when they discover they're not quite as liberated and detached as they imagined themselves being. 

If the two of you decide to go that route, then fine. If it works well for you, then that's even better. Just know that it's a scenario which ends in misery and heartache *far* more often than it working out well.

I don't see that as throwing out an "uneducated judgement".

Good luck with your situation, skyhawk.


----------



## not recognizable

What does being a physicist have to do with your inability to feel jealousy? If one is highly intelligent, is one relieved of that all too human burden?


----------



## lifeistooshort

not recognizable said:


> What does being a physicist have to do with your inability to feel jealousy? If one is highly intelligent, is one relieved of that all too human burden?



You beat me to it. I have a physics education and I fail to see what that has to do with anything. FYI I think I have better social skills than Sheldon, but I digress. I'm pretty nerdy but if my hb had yearned for another women i would be gone. Period. 
OP,, if you're for real your wife has no respect or attraction for you. You willingly take the scraps she throws you, no decent woman will find that attractive. By all means tell her to go bang om, why don't you rent them a room? Either she'll love it and dump you, she'll love it and continue in secret, or she'll be disappointed and will settle for you. If that's all you think you're worth then by all means go for it, but whatever you decide the answer to your question is no; it's not going to help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Tall Average Guy

skyhawk said:


> She is the only woman I have ever loved, and certainly the only one who ever cared for me.


This is your problem. You don't think you can do any better. Because of that, you are willing to live with a woman that has always wanted someone else instead, and now that she can have him, you are willing to take the left overs. 

So again, why don't you deserve a wife that loves you first?


----------



## treyvion

alexm said:


> No kidding, right? Man, if I were single, and my first girlfriend called me up and said "hey, I can't stop thinking about you. My HUSBAND said it's totally okay that you and I try again, and I can totally have sex with you, just to see. And if those feelings are still there, then I can leave my husband. If they're not, then I can go back to him." I would be looking at getting a restraining order asap. Seriously. I don't think I'd even dignify a proposal like that with a response.
> 
> I'm wondering if the OP would allow his wife to do this, simply because he assumes the OM would say "no thanks", or he'd just bang her and tell her to gtfo afterwards. Teach his wife a lesson, right...?


An Alpha would allow that option, because if she takes him up on it, he will allow her to continue on her way and leave the relation.


----------



## not recognizable

"You don't think you can do any better. Because of that, you are willing to live with a woman that has always wanted someone else instead,"

I agree, and to the OP, I'm willing to bet there were/are other women who care and cared about you. You just aren't and weren't aware of them.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

You can have her or your self-respect at this point, but not both. Don't underestimate the value of self-respect.


----------



## lifeistooshort

After giving this some more thought I wonder if part of the problem is that they're not really emotionally connected. I'm sure he loves her, and she might love him, but a lacking emotional connection is very tough for women, and could explain why she held on to thoughts of the ex, since she wasn't able to connect with him. Even the way he talks nonchalantly about this suggests he's detached emotionally, maybe like an Aspie. 
OP,, what do you to stay close to your wife? Do you date? Can you discuss personal issues and feelings? Any woman that calls out another mans name during sex isn't connected to her partner, but that can happen with affairs. In this case it sounds like you two were never emotionally connected.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Business partners. "Sheldon". It's just a fluid transaction.


----------



## bandit.45

skyhawk said:


> I sorry to have wasted everyone's time. Seems that the USA is the land of uneducated judgement based on the majority of replies.
> 
> My wife and I are friends and business partners, we have a family and if the worst were to happen and we split will manage that arrangement to ensure the best possible outcome for the kids.
> If the best case happens she will be able to resolve issues and have more joy in her life (as will I).
> 
> For those who don't understand how/why. I am a physicist, my friends refer to me as Sheldon (an allusion to "the big bang theory"), She is the only woman I have ever loved, and certainly the only one who ever cared for me.


You haven't wasted anyone's time...except maybe your own... 

The people here on TAM are mostly educated, decent people who are offering you some of their hard-earned wisdom. You haven't been charged a fee for it, you haven't been pushed into a corner or coerced into anything...

If you don't like what you read, print it out, crumple it up, and use it to wipe your bum if that makes you feel better, but insulting strangers from whom you have solicited advice is not very gentlemanly or ingenuous. 

And as for your education in physics? When it comes to negotiating the minefield of infidelity and interpersonal relationships, all your higher education and logic add up to exactly jack squat.

I've been on TAM for two years and I can tell you that the predictions that most of the posters make for how a particular person's situation is going to turn out is around 90% accurate. The majority of posters here have been telling you that allowing your wife to bring a third party into the marriage is going to destroy the marriage. You can buck the odds if you want to. I wouldn't risk it. But I'm not you. None of us are.


----------



## treyvion

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> You can have her or your self-respect at this point, but not both. Don't underestimate the value of self-respect.


You can get so much accomplished with a healthy level of self respect!

Without it, you get stuck in mud and sink in as you "try" to move forward.


----------



## AiMom

I too was still in love with my ex for some times until my husband got promoted and a raise.


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

^ *raises eye brow* *twitch* *twitch*


----------



## MAKINGSENSEOFIT

This entire nonsense thread should be deleted. Especially when the person who started it resorted to insults because he didn't like the replies. If this is for real enjoy your horrific marriage and consider changing your name to the one she shouts out when having an orgasm.


----------



## treyvion

AiMom said:


> I too was still in love with my ex for some times until my husband got promoted and a raise.


He needed something to happen for him to help shift the perception.


----------



## AiMom

Exactly. 

Sometimes it doesn't take much either.


----------



## bandit.45

AiMom said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Sometimes it doesn't take much either.


Gracious of you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AiMom

bandit.45 said:


> Gracious of you.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why thank you.


----------



## 6301

The minuet she screams out some other guys name while having sex during the honeymoon, bells, whistles, and alarms should have been going off in your head and serious thoughts about who you married should have been first and foremost.

If she had these fantasies from day one, you should have packed up and moved on ASAP. 

Now you want to hand her off to him? Should have done that a long time ago and finished the honeymoon by yourself. This is nuts.


----------



## skyhawk

Thank you to See_Listen_Love, LongWalk, Sh987, JJG, SimplyAmarous, alexm and especially breeze. Your kind words amongst the veil of inferred sneers stands out as a beacon that there are kind people around. It was a big step for me to ask for advice/help, I regret that now, but treasure the kindness you guys have shown.


----------



## sidney2718

skyhawk said:


> Thanks Longwalk,
> I am looking towards option 2. I don't know what the outcome will be but it's better than fighting the fantasy.
> I am still "in love" with my wife, yes I read all the things about how normal people fall out of romantic love and have something else, but I am not normal. There are some emotions/responses that "normal" people have that I don't understand, the main one is jealousy.
> Before that fated journey she was always capable of holding multiple people in her heart, after it no-one ever got in.
> I not fed up with her as such, but fed up with being overshadowed by a fantasy.


I've only read this far in this thread, so forgive me if things have moved on. I happen to be one of the few who thinks you are doing the right thing. The logic is clear: right now you have a wife in name only who is only going through the motions. She's clearly not gotten over the OM. You have NOTHING to lose by letting her go to him.

As you've said, she could decide that the OM is the love of her life and stay with him. Considering that he's already been divorced once might indicate that he's not a perfect specimin, but never mind that. If this happens you divorce without anger and are free to move on into the future. You'll be no worse off than you are now.

Or she could decide that it is all a big mistake and come back to you. If that happens you have to be very careful NOT to throw this "visit" up to her since it was your idea. But you'd have your marriage back. Would it be better than what you have now? Probably.

Or she could decide that she's broken and have neither of you. Again, in that case you are no worse off than you are now.

I admire your guts, but if this is what you want to do, go for it.

I wish you the best.


----------



## sidney2718

Cosmos said:


> The OP insults Americans and you decide to insult us Brits. Very mature...:scratchhead:


True. But look at what happened. The OP proposes something that is out of the normal scheme of things but which seems to fit his situation very well.

Hardly anyone pays attention to his analysis. Most everyone piles on by giving rote advice not necessarily applicable to this situation.

Every situation is different. There are no automatic answers. If there were marital problems would have been solved 10,000 years ago. We have all noticed that that has not happened. So why do we keep pitching the same advice no matter what the situation.


----------



## sidney2718

treyvion said:


> An Alpha would allow that option, because if she takes him up on it, he will allow her to continue on her way and leave the relation.


He knows his wife, we don't. They have three children. He knows that he and she will always be in contact. They also have a long shared life. The chance that she'll dump him totally is very small.

My guess is that if she does go see the OM they will NOT jump into bed first thing. They aren't kids. My best guess is that it won't work out; the reality of now will trump the memory of long ago.

But they may stick together. In that case my guess will be that she will still return to the OP and her family and make trips out of town every four or five weeks or so.

I think the chance that she will drop the OP totally is there, but rather small.


----------



## anchorwatch

I'm sorry most of us aren't so mentally capable to think that far outside of the box, and allow ourselves to agree with our spouses going off to eff some OP. Most of us would be pitifully uncaring, as to see a lawyer, change the locks and put their clothes out on the street.

I'm sorry I can't meet your level of sarcasm either.


----------



## nuclearnightmare

skyhawk said:


> She loves me, we have 3 kids (lost a 4th) together.
> She is actually considering breaking her religious views to go and get this out of her system. It's like there's always this shadow over everything that she can't get passed. I am not fool enough to consider this an instant cure, but a way to open herself to having more than one person in her life/mind.


Your first three words......no way that is true. Based on the way she has treated you....impossible

But sounds like you want to try an open marriage. I assume that means open for both of you?


----------



## RClawson

_Posted via Mobile Device_op. I need to weigh in on this but not by smart phone. I will reach out tomorrow.our stories are unusually similar.


----------



## Cosmos

> Cosmos
> The OP insults Americans and you decide to insult us Brits. Very mature...





> Sidney2718
> True. But look at what happened. The OP proposes something that is out of the normal scheme of things but which seems to fit his situation very well.


It is still no reason for any poster to start throwing insults around.

This is a marriage forum, and there is no way that people here are going to agree that the best way forward for a member is to allow their spouse to have sex with someone else.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

skyhawk said:


> Thank you to See_Listen_Love, LongWalk, Sh987, JJG, SimplyAmarous, alexm and especially breeze. Your kind words amongst the veil of inferred sneers stands out as a beacon that there are kind people around. It was a big step for me to ask for advice/help, I regret that now, but treasure the kindness you guys have shown.


My post contained no snark or sneer. They were very legitimate questions that you should think over carefully. Why do you think you don't deserve better in a wife? Why do you think she is the only women that could love you? Figure that out, then decide how you want to handle this with your wife. These are honest questions that I think can help you focus on what works for you.

Alternatively, if you just want people to approve your decision, please let us know so that we can give you the answer that you want. (In case you had any doubts, that last sentence was snark)


----------



## treyvion

sidney2718 said:


> He knows his wife, we don't. They have three children. He knows that he and she will always be in contact. They also have a long shared life. The chance that she'll dump him totally is very small.
> 
> My guess is that if she does go see the OM they will NOT jump into bed first thing. They aren't kids. My best guess is that it won't work out; the reality of now will trump the memory of long ago.
> 
> But they may stick together. In that case my guess will be that she will still return to the OP and her family and make trips out of town every four or five weeks or so.
> 
> I think the chance that she will drop the OP totally is there, but rather small.


Husband cannot condone it. If there is never a price to pay for the OM and the husband bears the financial and emotional cost for supporting the wife, then the OM cucks the husband.

The wife will not quit if she starts the affairs up, because she has no price to pay. It is not uncomfortable for her, actually it is very comfortable for her, and she gets to go into her fantasy affair land with very little risk, since the husband has shown her he loves her and will be there for her.

The wife may only not want to continue the affair if there is abuse ( but she will allow some abuse and negging, because the affair is so hot ), or if she simply discovers she's one of several women the OM has sex with. Even then she may not mind being in the rotation, with this guys whose value has been lifted.

Bottom line is husband cannot allow it.


----------



## bandit.45

Any further debate on this subject is pointless.

Skyhawk has bought into the open marriage idea. Good for him, I hope it works out. 

I just hope he gets to have his piece of azz on the side, if he is willing to let his so-called wife have hers.


----------



## treyvion

bandit.45 said:


> Any further debate on this subject is pointless.
> 
> Skyhawk has bought into the open marriage idea. Good for him, I hope it works out.
> 
> I just hope he gets to have his piece of azz on the side, if he is willing to let his so-called wife have hers.


Well the OM should pay help pay the bills too. Then it would make sense.


----------



## ReformedHubby

Not to sound harsh but I think a lot of what is being discussed is pointless. Folks are focusing too much on the sex in this thread. The reality is it really doesn't matter if the OP "lets her". Her heart belongs to the other man and always has. Even if she goes through with it and the guy is a horrible lay, I'm betting she would be willing to look past that anyway.

When I look at this I can't even call it cake eating on his wife's part. She pretty much was always honest with him about her feelings. There isn't any advice that we can really give the OP. 

After two decades its clear that he is okay with this arrangement. Her going physical won't change this. The only thing I can see happening that would change things would be if the other man insisted on having her for himself. If that were to happen she would probably leave her husband because he is number two. I'm not sure the OP is prepared for that to happen. I think he believes he can continue be number 2.


----------



## Deejo

So ... what are you looking for from the forum?

I'm genuinely curious so that we can better assist. 

My perspective?

Your wife IS NOT in love with the man she briefly had a fling with, while engaged to you. This person was never her 'boyfriend'. She is in love with an idea.

He is a romanticized construct of a life that she DIDN'T choose. He isn't real. It isn't real. It's a fantasy that exists in perfectly happy, and balanced harmony ... all in her head.

How is anyone supposed to stack up to that?

Doesn't seem that you have any intention of stopping her, or divorcing her.

So ... what do you want?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

alexm said:


> No kidding, right? Man, if I were single, and my first girlfriend called me up and said "hey, I can't stop thinking about you. My HUSBAND said it's totally okay that you and I try again, and I can totally have sex with you, just to see. And if those feelings are still there, then I can leave my husband. If they're not, then I can go back to him." I would be looking at getting a restraining order asap. Seriously. I don't think I'd even dignify a proposal like that with a response.
> 
> I'm wondering if the OP would allow his wife to do this, simply because he assumes the OM would say "no thanks", or he'd just bang her and tell her to gtfo afterwards. Teach his wife a lesson, right...?


great beginning for a crime novel though. intriguing........


----------



## nuclearnightmare

sh987 said:


> I don't see the need to be insulting, especially considering that nobody treated you in such a way.
> 
> a) Reasonable people can hold opposing views without it meaning the one party is a fool, etc.
> b) Is it really so strange that the vast majority of people find the idea of sharing your wife to be a disaster waiting to happen?
> 
> My own personal thought is that a marriage involves two people only, and that the presence of a third person weakens the bond of the married couple. You know this through personal experience, as your wife has spent many years putting her romantic feelings into the memory of her old affair partner instead of into you. I'm very sorry that's been your married life, and wouldn't wish it on anybody.
> 
> I don't think you need to put your wife into his bed to get some resolution, but it's something you say you're fine with. Others have expressed the same thoughts only to be faced with horror when they discover they're not quite as liberated and detached as they imagined themselves being.
> 
> If the two of you decide to go that route, then fine. If it works well for you, then that's even better. Just know that it's a scenario which ends in misery and heartache *far* more often than it working out well.
> 
> I don't see that as throwing out an "uneducated judgement".
> 
> Good luck with your situation, skyhawk.



thank you sh987, but why don't you let America and Great Britain work with Skyhawk on this. its a little too complex for a Canadian, don't you think?


----------



## nuclearnightmare

nuclearnightmare said:


> thank you sh987, but why don't you let America and Great Britain work with Skyhawk on this. its a little too complex for a Canadian, don't you think?



Hello everyone, and thanks sh9897 for being a good sport. I can't let this post sit here too long unexplained.

My problem is that I always find the spectacle of traded insults among the former Commonwealth states to be so hilarious.....couldn't resist joining in. It is basically a humor 'trigger' for me. sending me into a kind of comic 'fog' where I couldn't control myself.........sort of like this guy :rofl:


----------



## sh987

nuclearnightmare said:


> thank you sh987, but why don't you let America and Great Britain work with Skyhawk on this. its a little too complex for a Canadian, don't you think?


Oops. I'll just keep moving on, then.













nuclearnightmare said:


> Hello everyone, and thanks sh9897 for being a good sport. I can't let this post sit here too long unexplained.












If you ever want to join us, there's a convenient spray now...



> My problem is that I always find the spectacle of traded insults among the former Commonwealth states to be so hilarious.....couldn't resist joining in. It is basically a humor 'trigger' for me. sending me into a kind of comic 'fog' where I couldn't control myself.........sort of like this guy :rofl:


Nah, the same thing always gets me, too. I just don't see how people can possibly give a rat's a$$ about these sorts of things. I only care if somebody is a decent person. Where they come from is beyond meaningless.


----------



## sidney2718

treyvion said:


> Husband cannot condone it. If there is never a price to pay for the OM and the husband bears the financial and emotional cost for supporting the wife, then the OM cucks the husband.
> 
> The wife will not quit if she starts the affairs up, because she has no price to pay. It is not uncomfortable for her, actually it is very comfortable for her, and she gets to go into her fantasy affair land with very little risk, since the husband has shown her he loves her and will be there for her.
> 
> The wife may only not want to continue the affair if there is abuse ( but she will allow some abuse and negging, because the affair is so hot ), or if she simply discovers she's one of several women the OM has sex with. Even then she may not mind being in the rotation, with this guys whose value has been lifted.
> 
> Bottom line is husband cannot allow it.


Of course she has a price to pay. She can lose her children's love, her present husband's love, and come out the other end with nothing from the OM.

These are not teen-agers. They are mature people. And I think that you don't credit the wife with enough sense.


----------



## treyvion

sidney2718 said:


> Of course she has a price to pay. She can lose her children's love, her present husband's love, and come out the other end with nothing from the OM.
> 
> These are not teen-agers. They are mature people. And I think that you don't credit the wife with enough sense.


I credit most people with not alot of sense when it comes to "in love" feelings "intense lust and attraction", and the realities of affair land, how it feels, and how what they feel is not the right thing to do.

The only way I know is I been on both sides of that coin and paid dearly in time, pain and money.


----------



## RClawson

I can relate entirely to what skyhawk has written. Except for subtle variations his story is my story.

Now my wife's connection to the OM has been ongoing for our entire marriage albeit by proxy from her best friend (who married his brother) and her sister (who married his other brother). I have been slighted in his presence before (to young and naive to know how to cope with this). It has been a slow torture for almost 30 years.

The differences? I would have never stayed if she called out his name during sex. That would have been a deal breaker that night. She will not admit that he still has a good deal of control over her (head not heart). As many of you know the last couple of years have been a challenge and a real roller coaster. While I would never condone her being with him for a second (another deal breaker) I almost am at the point to tell her go and have a fling and I do not want to know who or when.

For many of you this is completely unacceptable and I understand but I know where the OP is coming from. This person is the "love of your life". I am not interested in any other women. I want her and only her. 

Her being with someone else would either solidify our future or be the end of it. The reasons are obvious. 

Let the barrage of vitriol and disbelief begin.


----------



## skyhawk

RClawson said:


> For many of you this is completely unacceptable and I understand but I know where the OP is coming from. This person is the "love of your life". I am not interested in any other women. I want her and only her.
> 
> Her being with someone else would either solidify our future or be the end of it. The reasons are obvious.
> 
> Let the barrage of vitriol and disbelief begin.


Thank you, that exactly sums up how I feel. She is the love of my life, The day I walked into church and talked her for the first time I was smitten, I still feel the same today.

Things have moved at a mind numbing pace, kids went with their grandparents for a couple of weeks, she spoke with the ex, he was mortified to have been such a problem in our marriage and has agreed to spend time with her, but no sex, she left this evening. I am working on as many projects as I can and spending time in the gym to keep me occupied. No students back for another month, but plenty of research happening. I have never been so frightened in my life and relieved at the same time, at least I will have an answer.


----------



## MrAvg

It is a interesting story, I hope she finds peace after the meeting. You will either be much closer or worse case for your relationship would be her heart gets rekindled by him and then who knows what.

Good luck, I think you are doing the right thing. Knowing what you know it seems logical. Why keep her wondering and you with concerns. Now it comes down to trust.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Skyhawk, I am truly sorry that you are here. The first question that I will ask is whether you consider your wife to be stable (in her mind) and has she been stable throughout your relationship - I have known many big-hearted and loving people who have not always been the most stable mentally and were prone to imagining things, focussing on events and people for the wrong reasons etc (some of these people in my extended family).

You say that you do not feel jealousy but I, being a former geek myself and belonged to a similar quartet as in the Big Bang theory (not the Sheldon character but more like Leonard/Raj combo) during my uni years, know that we all feel hurt! I actually see your logic in sending her to him but I do not know if you have answered some preliminary questions:


Is your wife mentally stable (and has she been stable throughout)?
Why did you not address this the first time she told you about him, cried when you first had sex or even cried out his name during orgasm - I don't really understand how you continued and what you were hoping to achieve by "forcing" her to be with you
Why did she stay with you instead of marrying him (by the way how long did they spend together compared with how long you were together at your time of marriage)

I would imagine that any normal old flame would freak out to be contacted like this after this period of time and events. What kind of person is he (might he be a player?) and is your wife considered attractive? If the answer to both these questions is yes, this will not end well for her or you.

Finally, I didn't really understand how you see this playing out even in an ideal scenario (she loves and lives with you both?) - is your idea practical leave alone possible. I suspect the answer to this all is in the answer to my very first question in this post.

Good luck and I hope you find the peace you are seeking.


----------



## ForBetter

Good for him for stipulating no sex for their meeting. I hope for all your sakes that he holds fast to that position while she's there. 

If she finds he is not an option open to her after all, she may be able to lay that hope to rest, finally.


----------



## alexm

manfromlamancha said:


> I would imagine that any normal old flame would freak out to be contacted like this after this period of time and events.
> 
> *I'm actually shocked he agreed to see her. Unfortunately, THAT is what doesn't bode well, never mind the other things.*
> 
> What kind of person is he (might he be a player?) and is your wife considered attractive? If the answer to both these questions is yes, this will not end well for her or you.
> 
> *I actually think that if he's a player, that's not such a bad thing... If her fantasy world comes crashing down on her because he just wants to get in her pants and she figures out that's all he's interested in, then GOOD.
> 
> She has this "happily ever after" mentality about this, and it's clear that won't happen (well.. PROBABLY won't happen...) then it could be enough to shake her teenage brain into adulthood once and for all. I don't think it'll make an ounce of difference to how she feels about OP, though. See my ramble below. *
> 
> Finally, I didn't really understand how you see this playing out even in an ideal scenario (she loves and lives with you both?) - is your idea practical leave alone possible. I suspect the answer to this all is in the answer to my very first question in this post.
> 
> Good luck and I hope you find the peace you are seeking.


OP, my advice is to get out of there asap. I was SO in love with my ex wife, even when I knew she didn't love me back. I allowed her to do things and act how she wanted during the last few years of our marriage, simply because I couldn't imagine loving anyone any more than I did her. I KNEW she didn't feel the same way about me, but I always thought there was SOME love there - and I was wrong.

2 years after we married (we had then been together for almost 9 years), she kind of disappeared for a couple of weeks. Her first boyfriend, when she was 12 (!!!), with whom she never had sex with, was back in our city, and she started to have doubts about us and needed to see him. The situation wasn't as convoluted and complex as yours, but it was pretty much the same nonetheless. It all happened so quickly, and I never got the full story from her, in the end.

From what I could piece together, this guy was the only boyfriend she had before me that was a nice guy and a good person. He was also her first (though again, no sex). She had talked of him a few times while we were together, and I thought nothing of it - first boyfriend, they were 12, etc. No biggie.

When she found out he was back in town, she HAD to see him, and did. I had no problem with that. After that first meeting, she announced to me that she may still have feelings for him... uh oh. I don't even remember how I handled it, though it was certainly not putting my foot down... I also didn't throw her into his arms, either.

Like I said, I never got the full story. I believe she only saw him once, maybe twice more, and my guess is that once she told him her feelings, he said "no thanks". I don't believe they did anything, and she told me they didn't. Maybe they did, and he wasn't interested in anything but that and that upset her. But I'll never know.

I asked her once again, after we had split up, and she maintained she never cheated on me physically while we were together. I mentioned him specifically, and she still said no. Doesn't mean she wasn't lying, but all the same. I didn't really care at that point, I just wanted to know for my own sake.

The moral of the story is that she did essentially the same thing, and I allowed it. She "came back" (I use that term loosely), but the damage was already done. Her Prince Charming was not meant to be, and in her mind, she settled for me - again. We lasted another 4 years or so, before she did finally meet someone more to her liking, and that was that. It was a waste of my time, and I regret being okay with it.

OP, you're setting yourself up, I promise you. If she comes back to you, she's not coming back with you being her Prince Charming in her mind. You're still going to be the alternative. UNTIL Prince Charming does come along, and they always do. Things might seem fine for a while, and you'll be relieved and happy that she "chose" you, then bang... The next time it happens, she won't come back.

If that happened to me NOW, I'd be gone the second I was told there could be feelings for somebody else - especially if it's somebody from her past.


----------



## skyhawk

manfromlamancha said:


> You say that you do not feel jealousy but I, being a former geek myself and belonged to a similar quartet as in the Big Bang theory (not the Sheldon character but more like Leonard/Raj combo) during my uni years, know that we all feel hurt! I actually see your logic in sending her to him but I do not know if you have answered some preliminary questions:
> 
> 
> Is your wife mentally stable (and has she been stable throughout)?
> Why did you not address this the first time she told you about him, cried when you first had sex or even cried out his name during orgasm - I don't really understand how you continued and what you were hoping to achieve by "forcing" her to be with you
> Why did she stay with you instead of marrying him (by the way how long did they spend together compared with how long you were together at your time of marriage)
> 
> I would imagine that any normal old flame would freak out to be contacted like this after this period of time and events. What kind of person is he (might he be a player?) and is your wife considered attractive? If the answer to both these questions is yes, this will not end well for her or you.
> 
> Finally, I didn't really understand how you see this playing out even in an ideal scenario (she loves and lives with you both?) - is your idea practical leave alone possible. I suspect the answer to this all is in the answer to my very first question in this post.
> 
> Good luck and I hope you find the peace you are seeking.


Thank for your comments and questions, I'll do my best to answer.
1) yes she is "mentally stable" and is very capable mostly. She is a person who likes rules, lists etc. She is a great mother and a good friend, there has never been any indication of any mental aberration other than her obsession with her ex.
2) this is in 2 parts, first... there had been ups and downs, and at the time I wasn't sure that her behavior was abnormal, she was being completely honest with me. She did her best to control her emotions and focus on me, second: I tend to be completely blind where she is concerned.
3) She chose me because we had been in love and she thought she would get that back, I was (to her way of thinking) better husband material. we were engaged 3 months, she was with him 6 months. we were then together 2 years before getting married, the first time we had sex was our wedding night.

Her ex is a good guy, not a player or a sleeze, he cares for her genuinely, and is always respectful and kindly spoken to me. Before I came to the University we worked together on a couple of projects (co-incidentally not something deliberately organized). He is also her brother's best friend so there is a world of complications, this is never going to be an "out of your life forever thing"


You are right, I feel hurt and loss of course, I feel love (although some say my sense of love is different), but some emotions I am unable to understand, jealousy is one of them. My daughter says I'm weird because she thinks "I feel everything more than others and then try to logic it all out" and "you don't get jealous because you spend too much time caring about how others are feeling." and of course my son explains it as "Everyone in Dad's circle is really super important, everyone else is an annoyance to be dealt with". <-- kids have an interesting perspective of course.

How do I see this playing out? I've run it through my head so many times and always get a different result, there are just too many variables that have to be weighted to be able to calculate the likely outcome. For me the best outcome is for there to be an outcome, obviously I'd like her to come back and say "OK I'm over it all". Another possibility is that she will figure out how we fit into her heart and want to keep both of us available to her, I can live with that as long as it's not this gaping uncertainty with a shadow over everything.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

RClawson said:


> For many of you this is completely unacceptable and I understand but I know where the OP is coming from. This person is the "love of your life". I am not interested in any other women. I want her and only her.


I will ask you what I asked the OP:

Why don't you deserve better?


----------



## Tall Average Guy

skyhawk said:


> Another possibility is that she will figure out how we fit into her heart and want to keep both of us available to her, I can live with that as long as it's not this gaping uncertainty with a shadow over everything.


Why don't you deserve any better than that?


----------



## weightlifter

Uh wow. I will play nice.

1) Base psychological question for you. Are you OK with being cuckolded? 

For some men it is simply no big deal. This is simply an alien thought process to me. To me marriage = lifetime mutual exclusive lease of genitals. Finding out another man being inside my wife could likely make me end up in jail possibly death row, likely in the news. 
2) You realize the probability of them not already having had sex is very low right?

Interesting that both of us appear to be very high IQ and hyper logical/ numeric yet COMPLETELY differing views.
While I want to write a bunch of dont do it stuff. Its already done.


----------



## weightlifter

Oh BTW one of the threads was by some dude like Oklahoma2012 or something. It was Oklahoma...something.


----------



## anchorwatch

Skyhawk, You're convinced this is the ultimate sacrifice of your love, to let her go off to find where her true love lays. All these years she has never reciprocated your level of devotion. Her true love has never been just you. Yet you consider yourself lucky, to be in this marriage, as a second choice. I'm amazed you anxiously wait for her return, like she would actually give you her full devotion if she came back. You must think the act of letting her go, to be a display of your ultimate love to her. Can you not consider, this great sacrifice of your love, as still displaying yourself as a plan B to her. IMHO, I see that you accepting less than what you give as the reason she longs for something else, from someone else. Someone who would only accept full devotion from her, as expected of a life partner. Someone who attracts her because he does not accept himself as second choice. I do not wish to insult you. I only want to explain, that for me, I see this as a betrayal of yourself. 

I wish you and your family well.


----------



## treyvion

anchorwatch said:


> Skyhawk, You're convinced this is the ultimate sacrifice of your love, to let her go off to find where her true love lays. All these years she has never reciprocated your level of devotion and her true love has never been you. Yet you consider yourself lucky, to be in this marriage, as a second choice. I'm amazed you anxiously wait for her return, like she would actually give you her full devotion if she came back. You must think the act of letting her go, to be a display of your ultimate love to her. Can you not consider, this great sacrifice of your love, as still displaying yourself as a plan B to her. IMHO, I see that you accepting less than what you give as the reason she longs for something else from someone else. Someone who would only accept full devotion from her, as a life partner. Someone who attracts her because he does not accept himself as second choice.
> 
> I whish you and your family well.


If he can hold people accountable and responsible for their dealings with him, he will no longer be in second place because it won't be tolerated.


----------



## RClawson

TAG,

Is there a guarantee that the next will be any better? I would hope so but we both know that is not true. As you know all this weighs heavy on my mind and I do have an exit strategy planned.

That being said I hope she will get back on track with us before that day. At the end of the day New Gal = New Baggage. Personally I could not withstand the chance of something like this happening again to me. I believe I am to fragile emotionally to be honest about it.


----------



## treyvion

RClawson said:


> TAG,
> 
> Is there a guarantee that the next will be any better? I would hope so but we both know that is not true. As you know all this weighs heavy on my mind and I do have an exit strategy planned.
> 
> That being said I hope she will get back on track with us before that day. At the end of the day New Gal = New Baggage. Personally I could not withstand the chance of something like this happening again to me. I believe I am to fragile emotionally to be honest about it.


No guarantees that the next situation will be better. What you can guarantee is you will observe certain behaviors and priorities and some of it you may choose to not accept because you see it's slitting your own throat.

This highly devotional and loving partner it sounds good on paper. I think a man has best luck if the woman fell "harder in love" with him than the other way around.

When we are so devoted to their treatment, we are less concerned about what we are recieving and a good majority of people are so self centered that they won't notice they aren't doing anything for you. You pedastalize them and doormat yourself in the same swoop of the brush.

I think many of us overthink these things at time. Some of the Athol Kay and Alpha stuff works, perhaps not at 100% but you need a good amount of it.

How to get them sprung and hooked and stay sprung and hooked is the question. I think we can't do this if we overthink things.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

RClawson said:


> TAG,
> 
> Is there a guarantee that the next will be any better? I would hope so but we both know that is not true. As you know all this weighs heavy on my mind and I do have an exit strategy planned.
> 
> That being said I hope she will get back on track with us before that day. At the end of the day New Gal = New Baggage. Personally I could not withstand the chance of something like this happening again to me. I believe I am to fragile emotionally to be honest about it.


No guarantees in life, my friend. But that holds for everything in life. We don't stand still out of fear that things could be worse. We leave the house, we work, we play, we live. 

But that does not really answer my question, which is why do you think you deserve this type of treatment.


----------



## RClawson

treyvion said:


> No guarantees that the next situation will be better. What you can guarantee is you will observe certain behaviors and priorities and some of it you may choose to not accept because you see it's slitting your own throat.
> 
> This highly devotional and loving partner it sounds good on paper. I think a man has best luck if the woman fell "harder in love" with him than the other way around.
> 
> When we are so devoted to their treatment, we are less concerned about what we are recieving and a good majority of people are so self centered that they won't notice they aren't doing anything for you. You pedastalize them and doormat yourself in the same swoop of the brush.
> 
> I think many of us overthink these things at time. Some of the Athol Kay and Alpha stuff works, perhaps not at 100% but you need a good amount of it.
> 
> How to get them sprung and hooked and stay sprung and hooked is the question. I think we can't do this if we overthink things.


Solid points. The last two paragraphs are 100% spot on. The 180 does work and has helped but honestly it begins to wear me out because that is not me. Recognizing that was a turning point.


----------



## treyvion

RClawson said:


> Solid points. The last two paragraphs are 100% spot on. The 180 does work and has helped but honestly it begins to wear me out because that is not me. Recognizing that was a turning point.


You can get alot of progress done during a 180. Alot of it was because you were following the WAS, also much of the interaction distorted your personal image and affected your confidence and ego.

In simplest terms i'm a caveman whose going to want alot of sex, but has no problem supporting and taking care of my woman or at least doing my part.


----------



## Sanity

F-102 said:


> Is this thread for real? Why would you even marry a woman like this? If my W told me that on our honeymoon, I would have had the marriage annulled at once!


I thought the same thing. Honestly on top of not annulling the marriage he has three children with a person that basically committed fraud. Some things just don't "work out" with time. This guy has some MAJOR co-dependency issues.


----------



## RClawson

Tall Average Guy said:


> No guarantees in life, my friend. But that holds for everything in life. We don't stand still out of fear that things could be worse. We leave the house, we work, we play, we live.
> 
> But that does not really answer my question, which is why do you think you deserve this type of treatment.


It is not an issue of deserving any kind of treatment. It just is TAG. You act like this is some kind of anomaly on this board. Not so. Why doesn't everyone on this board get out of their crappy circumstances? Fear, comfort, confusion etc. A myriad of things I suppose.


----------



## treyvion

RClawson said:


> It is not an issue of deserving any kind of treatment. It just is TAG. You act like this is some kind of anomaly on this board. Not so. Why doesn't everyone on this board get out of their crappy circumstances? Fear, comfort, confusion etc. A myriad of things I suppose.


Oh they can all get out. People make up reasons why they can't. Excuses have you.


----------



## Tall Average Guy

RClawson said:


> It is not an issue of deserving any kind of treatment. It just is TAG. You act like this is some kind of anomaly on this board. Not so. Why doesn't everyone on this board get out of their crappy circumstances? Fear, comfort, confusion etc. A myriad of things I suppose.


Unfortunately, I think a fair number of people think this is the best that they can do, so they put up with the crappy circumstances. That they don't deserve better. I agree it is not an anomaly, which is why I ask this question a fair amount. I think it is worth re-examining to avoid inertia. 

I am sorry for your circumstances (and that of the OP). I can't imagine having to deal with this and I wish you luck.


----------



## bandit.45

Here's Looking At You, Kid - Casablanca (5/6) Movie CLIP (1942) HD - YouTube

So noble....


----------



## manfromlamancha

skyhawk said:


> Thank for your comments and questions, I'll do my best to answer.
> 1) yes she is "mentally stable" and is very capable mostly. She is a person who likes rules, lists etc. She is a great mother and a good friend, there has never been any indication of any mental aberration other than her obsession with her ex.
> 2) this is in 2 parts, first... there had been ups and downs, and at the time I wasn't sure that her behavior was abnormal, she was being completely honest with me. She did her best to control her emotions and focus on me, second: I tend to be completely blind where she is concerned.
> 3) She chose me because we had been in love and she thought she would get that back, I was (to her way of thinking) better husband material. we were engaged 3 months, she was with him 6 months. we were then together 2 years before getting married, the first time we had sex was our wedding night.
> 
> Her ex is a good guy, not a player or a sleeze, he cares for her genuinely, and is always respectful and kindly spoken to me. Before I came to the University we worked together on a couple of projects (co-incidentally not something deliberately organized). He is also her brother's best friend so there is a world of complications, this is never going to be an "out of your life forever thing"
> 
> 
> You are right, I feel hurt and loss of course, I feel love (although some say my sense of love is different), but some emotions I am unable to understand, jealousy is one of them. My daughter says I'm weird because she thinks "I feel everything more than others and then try to logic it all out" and "you don't get jealous because you spend too much time caring about how others are feeling." and of course my son explains it as "Everyone in Dad's circle is really super important, everyone else is an annoyance to be dealt with". <-- kids have an interesting perspective of course.
> 
> How do I see this playing out? I've run it through my head so many times and always get a different result, there are just too many variables that have to be weighted to be able to calculate the likely outcome. For me the best outcome is for there to be an outcome, obviously I'd like her to come back and say "OK I'm over it all". Another possibility is that she will figure out how we fit into her heart and want to keep both of us available to her, I can live with that as long as it's not this gaping uncertainty with a shadow over everything.


Thank you for your reply and this does shed some light on the situation. If I understand the sequence of events:


She knows this OM anyway since he is her brothers best friend (lets assume older brother and therefore quite possible someone she would look up to).
She gets to know you and the two of you fall in love for 3 months.
Her parents suggest that she travels and "sees the world a bit" and she goes travelling "with this guy ?" or "and meets up with this guy quite by chance ?" or "by design ?" - in any case, he becomes her boyfriend for 6 months even though she is (was) in love with you ?
She comes back having never consumated her relationship with the other guy for moral/religious reasons, gets back together with you for 2 years and 3 months (engaged after the first three months) and then marries you because although she loved him more, you were better marriage material ?
You know this because she told you (when ?) while trying to be honest as well as the crying after sex on the wedding night etc and accept it [which is the thing I am finding hardest to deal with no matter how much you love her - thats when it should have ended but this is hindsight]
Now after a lifetime together and kids etc, she still cannot get over it and you finally decide to send her to him and quite possibly end the marriage

Tell me if I have got the sequence wrong. I believe that there are the following probably outcomes (I agree there are many possible outcomes):


He finds that he is genuinely in love with her and is willing to commence a life with her at this late stage but without you as her partner (just as her ex and the father of her kids)
The same as the previous but as part of an open marriage
He does not feel for her what she thinks she feels for him which will only return her to the limbo she was in (no real closure for her) even if he tries to explain this to her
Regardless of any of the above, she realises once she is there that this has been an infatuation or something she used to address some gap in her life and comes back to reality.

The worst outcome for you is number 3 which might be the most likely! What are you going to do then ? She comes back still pining for a fantasy and you continue to support her in this. Very self destructive. You say that she is mentally stable, but from where I sit, there is a very definite psychological/mental problem with her and you really need to get to the bottom of what is causing this. It is possible that the help she has been getting is not the right kind of help. She needs to come to an understanding of what real love is (as opposed to infatuation). She then needs to see you for who you are i.e. someone who very obviously loves her unconditionally (very hard to find) and at the very least appreciate that. Finally once she understands what real love is she needs to decide then if she loves you.

One step at a time ... lets see how things pan out after her visit with him.

BTW why did he take sex off the agenda - was it to help you or did he genuinely not want sex with her or was it because he was not sure of his feelings ?


----------



## RClawson

treyvion said:


> Oh they can all get out. People make up reasons why they can't. Excuses have you.


The first reason has to be that you really want to do it.


----------



## RClawson

Tall Average Guy said:


> Unfortunately, I think a fair number of people think this is the best that they can do, so they put up with the crappy circumstances. That they don't deserve better. I agree it is not an anomaly, which is why I ask this question a fair amount. I think it is worth re-examining to avoid inertia.
> 
> I am sorry for your circumstances (and that of the OP). I can't imagine having to deal with this and I wish you luck.


I am quite sure if I got out of the current relationship I could find someone compatible, fall in love, blah, blah, blah. If this was happening 10 years ago it would have been over and I knew who I would have pursued. Presently the thought of going through all that makes me tired.


----------



## RClawson

bandit.45 said:


> Here's Looking At You, Kid - Casablanca (5/6) Movie CLIP (1942) HD - YouTube
> 
> So noble....


Bandit if I was a drinking man I would have beers with you. You always keep things real, interesting, entertaining, humorous and truthful.


----------



## sidney2718

skyhawk said:


> Thank you, that exactly sums up how I feel. She is the love of my life, The day I walked into church and talked her for the first time I was smitten, I still feel the same today.
> 
> Things have moved at a mind numbing pace, kids went with their grandparents for a couple of weeks, she spoke with the ex, he was mortified to have been such a problem in our marriage and has agreed to spend time with her, but no sex, she left this evening. I am working on as many projects as I can and spending time in the gym to keep me occupied. No students back for another month, but plenty of research happening. I have never been so frightened in my life and relieved at the same time, at least I will have an answer.


Keep in touch. I somehow doubt that there will be a quick resolution. The problem seems to be her infatuation. Infatuations are not logical, they seem to just happen. In my experience they don't go away quickly but when they eventually start to ebb, they ebb quickly.

I meant to ask before, how old are your children and do they have any idea as to what is happening?

One last thing: it is good to keep busy. Physics, as you know, is the opiate of the minority...


----------



## skyhawk

manfromlamancha said:


> T
> Tell me if I have got the sequence wrong. I believe that there are the following probably outcomes (I agree there are many possible outcomes):
> 
> 
> He finds that he is genuinely in love with her and is willing to commence a life with her at this late stage but without you as her partner (just as her ex and the father of her kids)
> The same as the previous but as part of an open marriage
> He does not feel for her what she thinks she feels for him which will only return her to the limbo she was in (no real closure for her) even if he tries to explain this to her
> Regardless of any of the above, she realises once she is there that this has been an infatuation or something she used to address some gap in her life and comes back to reality.
> 
> The worst outcome for you is number 3 which might be the most likely! What are you going to do then ? She comes back still pining for a fantasy and you continue to support her in this. Very self destructive. You say that she is mentally stable, but from where I sit, there is a very definite psychological/mental problem with her and you really need to get to the bottom of what is causing this. It is possible that the help she has been getting is not the right kind of help. She needs to come to an understanding of what real love is (as opposed to infatuation). She then needs to see you for who you are i.e. someone who very obviously loves her unconditionally (very hard to find) and at the very least appreciate that. Finally once she understands what real love is she needs to decide then if she loves you.
> 
> One step at a time ... lets see how things pan out after her visit with him.
> 
> BTW why did he take sex off the agenda - was it to help you or did he genuinely not want sex with her or was it because he was not sure of his feelings ?



Don't know if her meeting up with him on her travels was arranged, but certainly encouraged. She says that initially she was not interested and keeping her distance but she was so alone and had made a promise to stay and work OS so he became a support, and one thing lead to another.

Your sequence is correct, her brother is 2 years older.

He took sex off the table because before proceeding he wanted to have completely talked through everything to get a proper understanding of the situation (I don't honestly believe it will stay off the table).

She knows that option 3 is not an option any more.


----------



## skyhawk

sidney2718 said:


> Keep in touch. I somehow doubt that there will be a quick resolution. The problem seems to be her infatuation. Infatuations are not logical, they seem to just happen. In my experience they don't go away quickly but when they eventually start to ebb, they ebb quickly.
> 
> I meant to ask before, how old are your children and do they have any idea as to what is happening?
> 
> One last thing: it is good to keep busy. Physics, as you know, is the opiate of the minority...


Hi, The kids are B-17, G-15, B-12. They don't know any of the history or what's happening, they have noticed "Dad loves mum more than she loves him". We NEVER discuss our issues or fight in front of them (unless it's business).

I love physics, it's my personal voyeurism - trying to see the universe naked.


----------



## RClawson

Skyhawk are you able to answer the question I PM'd you?


----------



## skyhawk

RClawson said:


> Skyhawk are you able to answer the question I PM'd you?


Hi, don't have a PM from you sorry, can you try again. I will certainly answer.


----------



## just got it 55

Cosmos said:


> The OP insults Americans and you decide to insult us Brits. Very mature...:scratchhead:


If Rodney King was alive he would be weeping


----------



## manfromlamancha

skyhawk said:


> Don't know if her meeting up with him on her travels was arranged, but certainly encouraged. She says that initially she was not interested and keeping her distance but she was so alone and had made a promise to stay and work OS so he became a support, and one thing lead to another.
> 
> Your sequence is correct, her brother is 2 years older.
> 
> He took sex off the table because before proceeding he wanted to have completely talked through everything to get a proper understanding of the situation (I don't honestly believe it will stay off the table).
> 
> She knows that option 3 is not an option any more.


Why would sex not stay off the table ? Is he still in love with her ? What happened to his marriage ? 

Also I don't think option 3 is an option - if he is not (as) into her as she is into him, she will come back unfulfilled but still infatuated (or in love) with him. I don't think she will be able to opt out of being in limbo but may choose to carry on regardless - not a good long term prospect for either of you.


----------



## alte Dame

I am married to a physicist and understand to a degree what you are trying to say when you point to this as an explanation of sorts of your mindset.

At the same time, you are most of all at base just a human being, like the rest of us. Sadly, I think this could mean that she may well get him out of her system, but you will not be so lucky. Your own scars from this may be your biggest emotional challenge.

In your OP, you asked for similar stories. If you haven't heard from MattMatt yet, you may want to read his story.


----------



## harrybrown

You are in a horrible situation. 
And it will get worse. 

The best way is for you to divorce and then send her to him. See if she will let you keep the kids.

How would she feel if the roles were reversed? She would have kicked you out long ago.

You are in for big trouble no matter what you do and this is no way to live your life, being your wife's second choice. Always.


----------



## Quant

Eject now before the inevitable crash.


----------



## skyhawk

Quant said:


> Eject now before the inevitable crash.


Married 23 years... this isn't an F16 it's a 747, an engine failure doesn't necessarily mean a crash, jut that the workload in the ****pit increases.

Also if a crash is inevitable wouldn't it be best to get everything lined up and clear of innocent bystanders first?


----------



## Quant

This dude must be pretty pimping if he has women lusting after him years later. You should call him and learn from him instead of being cuckolded by this pimp daddy.


----------



## weightlifter

Quant said:


> This dude must be pretty pimping if he has women lusting after him years later. You should call him and learn from him instead of being cuckolded by this pimp daddy.


Not unique. Reminds me of Hard to Detach a bit too.


----------



## RClawson

It is very possible the OM may look at OP's wife and say "Are you kidding me"? I had a friend whose wife was in the same situation and the OM said sorry but no thanks. He may be concerned for her and may actually try to help her get a grip on reality. I believe it is encouraging he took sex off the table.


----------



## Rayloveshiswife

Since he seems to be sort of a friend of the family and was disturbed by the trouble he inadvertently caused in your marriage, hopefully he will do the right thing and do what he can to put her off. Make her see that he is not what she built him up to be in her mind all these years. 

I wish you luck with this. You are brave man. I really doubt I could send my wife back to an EX to sort out her feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## anchorwatch

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Since he seems to be sort of a friend of the family and was disturbed by the trouble he inadvertently caused in your marriage, hopefully he will do the right thing and do what he can to put her off. Make her see that he is not what she built him up to be in her mind all these years.
> 
> I wish you luck with this. You are brave man. I really doubt I could send my wife back to an EX to sort out her feelings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I respectfully disagree. 

IMO

The OM is a cad. 

If the OM was a true family friend he would have told her he's not interested in her that way and never allowed the meeting. 

Skyhawk agreed for his betraying W to go off and see a divorced OM, who is at the moment enjoying his reunion with his old lover. 

Skyhawk's has a need to please his W at all cost and is emotionally incapable of caring for himself first. That's not bravery, courage, valor or chivalry. That's fear on loving oneself first.


----------



## weightlifter

Cmon they are snuggling in bed together as I type this.

OP, in your heart you KNOW this.


----------



## sh987

weightlifter said:


> Cmon they are snuggling in bed together as I type this.
> 
> OP, in your heart you KNOW this.


Yup, sadly.

This has been building for decades, and she will NOT pass up her chance to have sex with the man she's really wanted all this time. She's had to make do with dreaming about him, or calling out his name after she's had sex with her husband, but thought of the old affair partner. I say this not be cruel towards skyhawk, but because it's obvious.

There's nothing to be gained by sending your spouse into another person's bed. NOTHING.


----------



## sh987

Rayloveshiswife said:


> *Since he seems to be sort of a friend of the family and was disturbed by the trouble he inadvertently caused in your marriage, hopefully he will do the right thing and do what he can to put her off.* Make her see that he is not what she built him up to be in her mind all these years.
> 
> I wish you luck with this. You are brave man. I really doubt I could send my wife back to an EX to sort out her feelings.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remember: that friend of the family engaged in an affair with her when she was engaged many years ago. The only thing I'd be sure of is that he took the opportunity to do it again.


----------



## alexm

RClawson said:


> It is very possible the OM may look at OP's wife and say "Are you kidding me"? I had a friend whose wife was in the same situation and the OM said sorry but no thanks. He may be concerned for her and may actually try to help her get a grip on reality. I believe it is encouraging he took sex off the table.


Yup.

Like I said earlier in this thread, my ex wife did the same thing and I THINK the result was just that from the OM (a former boyfriend from many years ago, whom she felt some sort of attachment to). As I said, I never got the full story, but it sounded an awful lot like that's exactly what happened. Of course he could have boned her and said "see ya", too, who knows. Either way, she didn't end up with him (whether it's because he wasn't interested, or because he was an a-hole doesn't matter. The grass wasn't greener on the other side.) I choose to believe that he told her she was married, and that she was nuts, but that's only for my sanity!

I haven't changed my tune on this subject, but I've realized that OP is in a tough spot. Really, the only way he has ANY chance of getting his wife on his side, unfortunately, IS to let her go and see what's what with this guy.

If he doesn't, and he puts his foot down, then it's 20+ more years of the same BS from her.

I'm starting to see where he's coming from, though. Divorce is not the option he wants to take with all that he's invested in her, and there is a slight (very slight, if you ask me) chance that this will "get it out of her system" and things will recommence with a fresh slate and all will be good.

I think what a lot of responders here are thinking is how weak OP is, whereas in reality, he's actually being quite the opposite.

He could have been stronger from the get-go, but the likely outcome, 23 years later, would still be the same, unfortunately.

So rather than saying "woulda, coulda, shoulda" - which is irrelevant now, OP is doing the only thing he can to save whatever is left of his marriage.

A slim chance is better than no chance, and no chance is exactly what there would be if he just throws in the towel and tells her to gtfo.


----------



## manfromlamancha

sh987 said:


> Remember: that friend of the family engaged in an affair with her when she was engaged many years ago. The only thing I'd be sure of is that he took the opportunity to do it again.


Yes, this is something I was wondering about when I asked what kind of guy he was. They were not engaged at the time but were in a relationship before she left on her travels. This guy must have known that when he became her boyfriend and developed a relationship with her. That does not strike me as noble or friendly.


----------



## Jellybeans

I wish these threads had cliff's notes.


----------



## Rayloveshiswife

sh987 said:


> Remember: that friend of the family engaged in an affair with her when she was engaged many years ago. The only thing I'd be sure of is that he took the opportunity to do it again.


Well the OP said he was her brothers best friend and he was mortified by the effect he had on their marriage (so he said anyway). Guess I'm just hoping for best case outcome. 

I don't think I could have sent her to him at all. And if I was in his place I'm sure her infatuation with him would have ended the marriage long ago. 

The part that puzzles me is that she dated him for 6 months WHILE the OP and her were engaged. To me, that's an affair. I would not have married her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manfromlamancha

Rayloveshiswife said:


> Well the OP said he was her brothers best friend and he was mortified by the effect he had on their marriage (so he said anyway). Guess I'm just hoping for best case outcome.
> 
> I don't think I could have sent her to him at all. And if I was in his place I'm sure her infatuation with him would have ended the marriage long ago.
> 
> *The part that puzzles me is that she dated him for 6 months WHILE the OP and her were engaged.* To me, that's an affair. I would not have married her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


According to the timeline they were just bf/gf and got engaged after she got back. Still doesn't make it much better - she cheated or in her mind, broke it off and then reinstated it ?


----------



## sh987

manfromlamancha said:


> According to the timeline they were just bf/gf and got engaged after she got back. Still doesn't make it much better - she cheated or in her mind, broke it off and then reinstated it ?


No, OP and the woman were definitely engaged when she went to Europe. That's an affair by anybody's definition.


----------



## just got it 55

anchorwatch said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> IMO
> 
> The OM is a cad.
> 
> If the OM was a true family friend he would have told her he's not interested in her that way never allowed the meeting.
> 
> Skyhawk agreed for his betraying W to go off and see a divorced OM, who is at the moment enjoying for his reunion with his old lover.
> 
> Skyhawk's has a need to please his W at all cost and is emotionally incapable of caring for himself first. That's not bravery, courage, valor or chivalry. That's fear on loving oneself first.



:iagree::iagree::iagree: Completely


----------



## just got it 55

alexm said:


> Yup.
> 
> Like I said earlier in this thread, my ex wife did the same thing and I THINK the result was just that from the OM (a former boyfriend from many years ago, whom she felt some sort of attachment to). As I said, I never got the full story, but it sounded an awful lot like that's exactly what happened. Of course he could have boned her and said "see ya", too, who knows. Either way, she didn't end up with him (whether it's because he wasn't interested, or because he was an a-hole doesn't matter. The grass wasn't greener on the other side.) I choose to believe that he told her she was married, and that she was nuts, but that's only for my sanity!
> 
> I haven't changed my tune on this subject, but I've realized that OP is in a tough spot. Really, the only way he has ANY chance of getting his wife on his side, unfortunately, IS to let her go and see what's what with this guy.
> 
> If he doesn't, and he puts his foot down, then it's 20+ more years of the same BS from her.
> 
> I'm starting to see where he's coming from, though. Divorce is not the option he wants to take with all that he's invested in her, and there is a slight (very slight, if you ask me) chance that this will "get it out of her system" and things will recommence with a fresh slate and all will be good.
> 
> *I think what a lot of responders here are thinking is how weak OP is, whereas in reality, he's actually being quite the opposite*.
> 
> He could have been stronger from the get-go, but the likely outcome, 23 years later, would still be the same, unfortunately.
> 
> So rather than saying "woulda, coulda, shoulda" - which is irrelevant now, OP is doing the only thing he can to save whatever is left of his marriage.
> 
> A slim chance is better than no chance, and no chance is exactly what there would be if he just throws in the towel and tells her to gtfo.


That's the milion dollar question

Not for us but for his wife


But you are correct in this post

It's no win either way

55


----------



## happyman64

Skyhawk

Have you heard from your wife since she left to see the OM?

And when is your wife due back?

HM


----------



## See_Listen_Love

This is not a case for the standard procedure. You cannot cage this woman and act as if she is staying out of free will.

OP is right to let her go, if she comes back, she wants him, if she does not, it is painfull but better for him. 

I can also understand her pain, and need to see if it was an illusion or a reality, and get clear what she wants in the future.

I am sorry that OP missed out on his marriage without knowing about it...

Maybe she gets a reality check and figures out what treasures she is putting in danger, I hope so.


----------



## weightlifter

See_Listen_Love said:


> This is not a case for the standard procedure. You cannot cage this woman and act as if she is staying out of free will.
> 
> OP is right to let her go, if she comes back, she wants him, if she does not, it is painfull but better for him.
> 
> I can also understand her pain, and need to see if it was an illusion or a reality, and get clear what she wants in the future.
> 
> I am sorry that OP missed out on his marriage without knowing about it...
> 
> Maybe she gets a reality check and figures out what treasures she is putting in danger, I hope so.


He can let her go. Not a problem. It should be done with the stipulation that she may go but divorce papers will be waithing. Thinking they are not having sex this weekend is VERY likely VERY incorrect.

SHE has the right to go(using her own money of course). HE has the right to tell her what it will cost her.

Perhaps he is OK with being cuckolded. There are message boards for those men so there is more than 1 man wired that way.


----------



## Quant

weightlifter said:


> He can let her go. Not a problem. It should be done with the stipulation that she may go but divorce papers will be waithing. Thinking they are not having sex this weekend is VERY likely VERY incorrect.
> 
> SHE has the right to go(using her own money of course). HE has the right to tell her what it will cost her.
> 
> Perhaps he is OK with being cuckolded. There are message boards for those men so there is more than 1 man wired that way.


I just don't see the point if she's going to bang other guys.


----------



## skyhawk

happyman64 said:


> Skyhawk
> 
> Have you heard from your wife since she left to see the OM?
> 
> And when is your wife due back?
> 
> HM


Hi HM, 
I have not heard from her, her ex contacted me to give me an update yesterday, and let me know where things are at.

There is no doubt in my mind that they will end up in bed, and to be honest I don't think there was ever any other option.

Lots of people here have been very critical, however a I have received a few private messages from those in a similar situation who have taken the risk, so far with 100% positive effects, which has been encouraging.

She is due back Monday morning. I guess time will tell
skyhawk.


----------



## tom67

I feel for you sky
You must have such low self esteem.
But it's your life.
Good luck.

I'm not sure what you are teaching the kids with this, wow.


----------



## skyhawk

tom67 said:


> I feel for you sky
> You must have such low self esteem.
> But it's your life.
> Good luck.
> 
> I'm not sure what you are teaching the kids with this, wow.


1) as previously stated, kids don't know.

2) Hope, commitment and self sacrifice does not equal low self esteem

3) Everybody take a couple of steps back and look at the big picture, not just one piece of the jigsaw that is a life spent with someone.

I'm not an idiot, I am high functioning and incredibly successful in life, as is my wife. She is not the "bad person" some have tried to make out, and we both determined together to try to reach a resolution. Yes this is a very hard time, and dealing with a long history of issues has it's problems. Yes had we both not had such a strict, protective religious upbringing (SDA) things would probably have worked out better, but it is what it is.


----------



## happyman64

skyhawk said:


> Hi HM,
> I have not heard from her, her ex contacted me to give me an update yesterday, and let me know where things are at.
> 
> There is no doubt in my mind that they will end up in bed, and to be honest I don't think there was ever any other option.
> 
> Lots of people here have been very critical, however a I have received a few private messages from those in a similar situation who have taken the risk, so far with 100% positive effects, which has been encouraging.
> 
> She is due back Monday morning. I guess time will tell
> skyhawk.


Every person is wired different Skyhawk. And many of us who have been screwed over in our relationships can be bitter.

But many are bitter from having to learn lessons we wish we never had to learn.

I understand you love your wife.
I understand you agreed to let her go see the OM this weekend.
I call it the "Let Her Go" plan.

You are taking a gamble with your marriage.

Just realize that many on TAM have learned that they cannot be in a relationship with a wayward spouse that does not love them as much as they love the wayward.

Also realize that you may very well have allowed your wife not only to re-consummate her fantasy but in her mind you have opened your marriage to a third party or open marriage.

If that is ok and you understand the risks then so be it. Who are we to judge you.

I just hope you are not short changing yourself on a true honest relationship with a woman that loves you as much as you love her.

Let us know how you make out when she comes home.

And I do hope you get the truth and that your wife returns to you and your family.

HM


----------



## tom67

skyhawk said:


> 1) as previously stated, kids don't know.
> 
> 2) Hope, commitment and self sacrifice does not equal low self esteem
> 
> 3) Everybody take a couple of steps back and look at the big picture, not just one piece of the jigsaw that is a life spent with someone.
> 
> I'm not an idiot, I am high functioning and incredibly successful in life, as is my wife. She is not the "bad person" some have tried to make out, and we both determined together to try to reach a resolution. Yes this is a very hard time, and dealing with a long history of issues has it's problems. Yes had we both not had such a strict, protective religious upbringing (SDA) things would probably have worked out better, but it is what it is.


Protect yourself financially if you have a joint acct. take half out and depending what happens monday cancel joint credit cards.
You just have to be prepared that's all.


----------



## skyhawk

tom67 said:


> Protect yourself financially if you have a joint acct. take half out and depending what happens monday cancel joint credit cards.
> You just have to be prepared that's all.


Thanks - good advice for anyone.
Wife handed me sole control of all finances on Thursday before she left. (I didn't need to ask)


----------



## Decorum

Skyhawk,
I can think of few things harder than to not be the emotional focus of my wife and mother of my children, and to endure it for so long.

My stomach hurts.

I don't know if you have had a chance to read here what some of the remorseful wayward wives go through in terms of regret.

When they realize the disloyalty, disrespect, and neglect they have put their husbands through they often suffer an unbearable regret.

One that can span years.

Sometimes a woman has a very hard time ever forgiving herself for what she has done, and the deeper the love the more it hurts.

Perhaps she will be the Amy Farrah Fowler to your Sheldon, but imagine all the emotional energy directed to her emotional fantasy now populating her regret circuit.

She maintained her emotional obsession for years.

She may not returned to a ground state she may just begin pumping between a different set of mirrors, as a broken woman. She may then be devoted, and engaged (or guilt ridden and withdrawn) but suffering. 

I know it is a little late in the game to mention this but I just saw this thread today.

She may not just be able to say to herself "It's ok my husband and I agreed this was the best course of action, so regret go away".

She may have inflicted herself with a life long wound. I am sure that is not what you wanted.

It must be so hard to wait.

I cant imagine the uncertainty you are experiencing at the moment. 

I am rooting for your marriage and family, I am sorry it has come to this.

I wish you well,
Take care!


----------



## See_Listen_Love

weightlifter said:


> He can let her go. Not a problem. It should be done with the stipulation that she may go but divorce papers will be waithing. Thinking they are not having sex this weekend is VERY likely VERY incorrect.
> 
> SHE has the right to go(using her own money of course). HE has the right to tell her what it will cost her.
> 
> Perhaps he is OK with being cuckolded. There are message boards for those men so there is more than 1 man wired that way.


This it not a cuckolding situation. It is no 'falling in love with OM' case breakable by getting her out of the fog.

She has been a life time strugling with a secret love, real or imaginary, depending on how illusionary her feelings were. Hopefully it was a dream that gets chattered by the cold light of reality. That may take some day's yes.

About the sex thing, many men here are having real trouble with what their spouse experienced Before they got together. So the 'cuckold' feeling can also come to you from the past. 

In this case OP is reluctantly letting her go, because he wants her really back, and hopes for the best.

If you plan a relation according to your rules, (what a conundrum btw), in reality the best you can do is also hope for the best. In reality fate can strike the next day. 

And the hint of polyamory that I sense is sometimes an option, in the past and in the present, many people live a life with that. See about any president, see probably many persons in a powerful situation, even the 'moraly right' ones.

I won't judge in this case.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

She made a choice back then, and lives with the consequences. I understand that because of her cancer or something like that she promised herself to clean up her life and fix all broken things (to her the present marriage is a conscious choice to live according to her principles, in accordance with her religious beliefs) in accordance with her real self. A kind of coming out.

The error she has made is from the past, and OP and family are the main victims, but OM and her are also victim. 

We all see errors here, but I would like to point out that I see a lot of people in relations where the staying together, and even the coming together is a kind of mixed decision. Kind of like a BS chooses for R or D, not a simple choice, and both have deep engraving advantages and disadvantages for multiple persons.


----------



## tom67

She made a mistake...She had an affair...Yet she married you...All these years she has had to live with this problem and unhappiness...Don't hate her for this, it is just life...I guess being this sentimental, love sick, hornier than hell woman that I am, had to crawl to my husband each year for a two day lovers reunion I would...I would leave my children and him so I could enjoy this part of my life...I would not do this to hurt him, but to help me make all the other days more bearable...Honey, she does not love you less, she loves you differently...Even if you had mated with her first she probably would still feel the same only never knowing what she knows now...Your marriage would pretty much be as it is now...What I am saying is she has been awakened and needs to meet with the person who completes her...It is a woman thing...That thing that makes me need my husband as much as I need water to drink...He is my life...He is what was placed on this earth for me to love...

If she comes back then love her as much as you did before she left...She is your wife and mother of your children...She is not a loose woman, but only a woman that found something in a special place and came home to the man she loved...My best to you....May you find peace...All my love...Caroline...

What?
Ahh ok.:scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## aug

skyhawk said:


> 1) as previously stated, *kids don't know.*
> 
> 2) Hope, commitment and self sacrifice does not equal low self esteem
> 
> 3) Everybody take a couple of steps back and look at the big picture, not just one piece of the jigsaw that is a life spent with someone.
> 
> I'm not an idiot, I am high functioning and incredibly successful in life, as is my wife. She is not the "bad person" some have tried to make out, and we both determined together to try to reach a resolution. Yes this is a very hard time, and dealing with a long history of issues has it's problems. Yes had we both not had such a strict, protective religious upbringing (SDA) things would probably have worked out better, but it is what it is.



Your kids must either be:
a) having difficulties picking up social, verbal, physical clues as to the going on in their household, or
b) too polite/shy to let on.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I cannot agree with the "correctness" of what is being done here but as someone else said earlier, everyone is "wired differently".

Referring to the other guy as her "ex" is wrong - he started out being the OM (she and he cheated and this marriage maybe should never have started had it been handled properly - hindsight, I know) and is now about to become the OM again.

Her (and you) using the fact that she had cancer to justify these actions and her to pursue a more hedonistic lifestyle is wrong - other cancer survivors or even victims do not go out and start pursuing fantasies and exploiting spouse guilt to do this.

Blaming any of this on a strict religious upbringing (and believe me I know what this is) coupled with the fact that you went on to become highly educated especially in science to temper any of the "negative" effects of a religious upbringing is wrong - at the end of the day you married someone you fell in love with and who is now wanting to sleep with someone she didn't sleep with earlier and is in some sort of fatuous dream, and you are indulging her as a way to try and hold on to her rather than try and deal with this any other way (this has nothing to do with your being highly qualified and more to do with your being well outside of your comfort zone - in short, this ain't physics!)

So lets say she sleeps with him and lets say that things pan out as it does for many, many others:

She enjoys the buzz and thrill of new (almost taboo) sex and wants more of this buzz. However because you have given her permission with this one, it isn't as much of a thrill as the next new, secretive affair. You have, as others have said, now suggested that polyamory might be something that you are OK with. So she starts looking around.
You, despite your self-sacrifice and love, start to feel resentful - this is normal human behaviour. This takes your relationship on a spiral downwards.
Your kids pick up on this and learn, god knows what, from this. May be to respect you, maybe quite the opposite. Maybe that it is right to put your spouse first and let her have whatever she desires - maybe quite the opposite and to put yourself first (from your wife's point of view)

Or she could just come back and say, I am glad I got that out of my system, and lets continue now that I am sure that I love you more than him and I have crossed this off my (post-illness) list.

Good luck with this. By the way, what were you hoping to achieve from posting on TAM (advice ? on what ?)


----------



## aug

Threetimesalady said:


> *She made a mistake...She had an affair...Yet she married you..*.All these years she has had to live with this problem and unhappiness...Don't hate her for this, it is just life...I guess being this sentimental, love sick, hornier than hell woman that I am, had to crawl to my husband each year for a two day lovers reunion I would...I would leave my children and him so I could enjoy this part of my life...I would not do this to hurt him, but to help me make all the other days more bearable...Honey, she does not love you less, she loves you differently...Even if you had mated with her first she probably would still feel the same only never knowing what she knows now...Your marriage would pretty much be as it is now...What I am saying is she has been awakened and needs to meet with the person who completes her...It is a woman thing...That thing that makes me need my husband as much as I need water to drink...He is my life...He is what was placed on this earth for me to love...
> 
> If she comes back then love her as much as you did before she left...She is your wife and mother of your children...She is not a loose woman, but only a woman that found something in a special place and came home to the man she loved...My best to you....May you find peace....Caroline...


Caroline, you carried on an affair with a married man, your boss, when you were young. I see you do not have any regrets/remorse about that.


Yup, I see the mistake OP's wife made was to married OP. But he's okay with that as evidence by the fact he knew all these years.


----------



## aug

Threetimesalady said:


> Like I said if my husband and I had met at that train station that there is such electricity between us that we are pulled together...I believe in love....He took a chance and let her go to find out where her heart lies...Maybe she will come back and find that she lived in a dream....or maybe not...A woman's love for a man can be bigger than life...I would have accepted my husband if he had that affair that I write about at the beginning of my thread...I couldn't let him go...Maybe she is that type of person that has the same electricity that stirs her soul...Men do not truly understand a woman's heart...There is love and there is looovvveee......with the later there is the passion that can melt the thickest ice on the planet....I have got to get to bed before he comes for me...


How old are you?


----------



## The Cro-Magnon

Threetimesalady said:


> Hi Skyhawk: I wish I had read this post earlier, but I just started reading posts today...In fact I haven't read every word of it as I have to go to bed as we have a house full of guests coming over before noon and I have to act normal...That is if I can...
> 
> About your wife...I feel for you...I hurt for you...My heart reaches out to you....What you speak about is like the movie "Same Time Next Year" when two lovers who were married to someone else had an affair out of the blue waiting for a train or something...It is a wonderful movie....Each year they would meet again for a two night lovers mating time...It was a beautiful movie...When my husband and I have watched it we swear that if this was us we would do it too...I just about cry thinking of anyone else getting him, but when two hearts blend, how can you stop the emotion of sexual attraction from following...How can you deny what you feel.....This is especially true with a woman as her orgasms start up just like that and cry out for him to take her...
> 
> She made a mistake...She had an affair...Yet she married you...All these years she has had to live with this problem and unhappiness...Don't hate her for this, it is just life...I guess being this sentimental, love sick, hornier than hell woman that I am, had to crawl to my husband each year for a two day lovers reunion I would...I would leave my children and him so I could enjoy this part of my life...I would not do this to hurt him, but to help me make all the other days more bearable...Honey, she does not love you less, she loves you differently...Even if you had mated with her first she probably would still feel the same only never knowing what she knows now...Your marriage would pretty much be as it is now...What I am saying is she has been awakened and needs to meet with the person who completes her...It is a woman thing...That thing that makes me need my husband as much as I need water to drink...He is my life...He is what was placed on this earth for me to love...
> 
> If she comes back then love her as much as you did before she left...She is your wife and mother of your children...She is not a loose woman, but only a woman that found something in a special place and came home to the man she loved...My best to you....May you find peace....Caroline...


----------



## skyhawk

Threetimesalady said:


> Hi Skyhawk: I wish I had read this post earlier, but I just started reading posts today...In fact I haven't read every word of it as I have to go to bed as we have a house full of guests coming over before noon and I have to act normal...That is if I can...
> 
> About your wife...I feel for you...I hurt for you...My heart reaches out to you....What you speak about is like the movie "Same Time Next Year" when two lovers who were married to someone else had an affair out of the blue waiting for a train or something...It is a wonderful movie....Each year they would meet again for a two night lovers mating time...It was a beautiful movie...When my husband and I have watched it we swear that if this was us we would do it too...I just about cry thinking of anyone else getting him, but when two hearts blend, how can you stop the emotion of sexual attraction from following...How can you deny what you feel.....This is especially true with a woman as her orgasms start up just like that and cry out for him to take her...
> 
> She made a mistake...She had an affair...Yet she married you...All these years she has had to live with this problem and unhappiness...Don't hate her for this, it is just life...I guess being this sentimental, love sick, hornier than hell woman that I am, had to crawl to my husband each year for a two day lovers reunion I would...I would leave my children and him so I could enjoy this part of my life...I would not do this to hurt him, but to help me make all the other days more bearable...Honey, she does not love you less, she loves you differently...Even if you had mated with her first she probably would still feel the same only never knowing what she knows now...Your marriage would pretty much be as it is now...What I am saying is she has been awakened and needs to meet with the person who completes her...It is a woman thing...That thing that makes me need my husband as much as I need water to drink...He is my life...He is what was placed on this earth for me to love...
> 
> If she comes back then love her as much as you did before she left...She is your wife and mother of your children...She is not a loose woman, but only a woman that found something in a special place and came home to the man she loved...My best to you....May you find peace....Caroline...


Thank you for your kindness.


----------



## happyman64

Skyhawk

Just the fact that your wife has not texted you or called you once is very telling.

Have you thought about this?

HM


----------



## skyhawk

happyman64 said:


> Skyhawk
> 
> Just the fact that your wife has not texted you or called you once is very telling.
> 
> Have you thought about this?
> 
> HM


Constantly, but... could be good, could be bad
Could be good, could be bad


----------



## Caribbean Man

skyhawk said:


> Constantly, but... could be good, could be bad
> Could be good, could be bad


OP,

Have you ever considered that something might not be correct in your passive , almost self defeating approach to your problem?

I appears that you think your wife is right and entitled to do what she did to you , and is still doing whilst at the same time denying yourself of options. Almost like a martyr .
Why do you live as though you must sacrifice your dignity for her happiness when her happiness revolves solely around her and does not involve you, your happiness, your best interests or that of the marriage ?

Have you ever considered individual counselling?

You have been through 24 years of a very traumatic situation ,and in my opinion, I see parallels between your responses to it ,and that of women who are severe domestic violence victims.
It is a condition psychologists called "_ learned helplessness _."
I could be very wrong , but it appears like that to me.

Learned helplessness describes the behavior that follows when uncontrollable events lead to the expectation that future events will also be uncontrollable.
The person stays in the abusive situation,either rationalizes that it isn't _really_ abusive ,or thinks that there's no way out and eventually enables the abuser to continue abusing them. Eventually, they blame themselves for the abuse. 
It is a learned type of response which people who are facing or who have faced severe trauma develop as a coping mechanism.

Why not consider setting up an appointment for yourself with a professional psych or counselor if you have not already done so?
Maybe you would be able to get more insight and clarity.


----------



## alexm

I REALLY like what CM says above.

In all honesty, I didn't want to "go there", as I don't think my words would have come across quite as well as they did in CM's post.

But now that it's been brought into the conversation...

Abuse doesn't always take an obvious form. I'm pretty sure we all know that. Yet sometimes even when it's staring us in the face, we don't recognize it. Whether it's because we think "nah, they would never be consciously doing this to me, they love me", or it's because you just don't ever expect to find yourself in that situation.

What OP's wife is doing, and has done, is absolutely abusive. She may not realize it, he may not realize it, but it's there.

This isn't the world's greatest advice, but here it is: 7 years into my 14 year relationship with my ex wife, things changed - SHE changed - and not for the better. Before that, we were good. Gradually, she moved away from the person she had been up to that point, and it reflected in our marriage and how she treated me.

Looking back on it now, she didn't like me, let alone love me. Any respect she ever had was gone, and it's not like I had suddenly turned into a terrible person. I grew and changed as any person will do over that period of time, and I think it was for the better.

For many years, she stayed with me, for god-knows-what reasons.

My love for her never changed - which I realize now was a result of her having beat my self esteem down to nothing, therefore I didn't think I could do any better. She made me believe I NEEDED her and wouldn't survive on my own. People who have been in this situation (man or woman) know what I mean, and know how we arrived at that point in our lives. It's not difficult when you're in love.

OP, my experiences taught me that it was inevitable that my marriage ended. HOW it ended was up in the air. Either I left it, and her, of my own volition (difficult to do when you are led to believe there is nobody better out there) or she left it (which she did) in spectacular fashion, and making sure that I was a beaten-down wreck of a human being in the process. Even after we separated, after we divorced, after I met somebody else, after she moved away - she STILL spoke down to me, made me feel 2 inches tall, put me in situations where I essentially had to bend to her will (ie. doing her taxes as she was no longer in the country, and we had a shared business. Handling all the lawyer stuff, as she was 2000miles away. etc etc etc.) She left me, I had to deal with all the logistics of it. She just had to sign some documents here and there.

I took my time with the divorce papers, as I really wasn't in any hurry. However, she was going to be married soon (possibly to be able to stay in her new country, I don't know). This was a bit less than 2 years after she took off. When I heard she was getting married, I considered just not filing the papers, but decided against it, just to clear her from my life once and for all. Knowing she couldn't have been married because she wasn't yet divorced appealed to me, as did the possibility she'd have to leave that country, or perhaps not be able to work, but I took the high road.

The irony is that it took less than a month of being on my own to realize how much better life was without her. The hard part was the changes in routine, and other such inconsequential things.

I regret not leaving her, and allowing her to dictate the terms of our marriage ending. I still, and likely always will, have some anger towards her for essentially holding me hostage then tossing me aside when I was no longer needed. I will also have anger at myself for not leaving many years earlier.

At this point in my life, my only regrets are that I allowed her to get away with it for so long. I do not regret my time with her as a whole. There were good memories there. But the most important thing is that I learned from it.


----------



## weightlifter

Ugh. I got sick reading that post he knows his wife is screwing the OM. I just read it and my stomach turned and pulse went up by 30. Anyone else?

OP. I know you are wired differently. Good luck.


----------



## happyman64

skyhawk said:


> Constantly, but... could be good, could be bad
> Could be good, could be bad


Well it could be good or it could be bad.

I read the stories.

I hope she brings home a new philly just for you.....


----------



## skyhawk

happyman64 said:


> Well it could be good or it could be bad.
> 
> I read the stories.
> 
> I hope she brings home a new philly just for you.....


She called all weepy last night as asked me to take today off to spend with her. Arrived home an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying and saying how sorry she is and that she can never repay me for what she's done to me over the years. Has fallen asleep now.


----------



## lifeistooshort

OM probably told her it's not happening. That's usually the reaction spouses get when the OM//OW dumps the ws.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Nucking Futs

skyhawk said:


> She called all weepy last night as asked me to take today off to spend with her. Arrived home an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying and saying how sorry she is and that she can never repay me for what she's done to me over the years. Has fallen asleep now.


Uh-oh.


----------



## anchorwatch

skyhawk said:


> She called all weepy last night as asked me to take today off to spend with her. Arrived home an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying and saying how sorry she is and that she can never repay me for what she's done to me over the years. Has fallen asleep now.


It's part of the WW playbook. She's back from sex with the OM. Now she'll use her wiles to throw off the guilt. Throwing you a bone to keep you from being upset about her activities. Bringing you back into the fantasy that she is all your's now. Till she gets the itch for him again? Listen close for who's name she will call out now. 

This is not a unique story. It's played out everyday, everywhere there are those that are willing to betray their life partners to satisfy their selfishness. Unfortunately, there are betrayed spouses who feel they don't deserve better than that.


----------



## just got it 55

skyhawk said:


> She called all weepy last night as asked me to take today off to spend with her. Arrived home an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying and saying how sorry she is and that she can never repay me for what she's done to me over the years. Has fallen asleep now.


Very fvcking predictable no ?


----------



## Decorum

You have been there for her the whole time.

How many people in a persons life love with such loyalty especially with all you have gone through.

I hope it is a wakeup call to her. I have seen it on here before when a woman realizes what she has or has thrown away.



lifeistooshort said:


> OM probably told her it's not happening. That's usually the reaction spouses get when the OM//OW dumps the ws.


Think about what the OM was facing, not just bedding a randy woman but a ready made LTR.

I don't know if he knew she was cheating years ago, and maybe he would have been a one and done cad here if it was not so out in the open, but the whole situation may have given him the creeps, I know it did me.

His reluctance may be her release.

If she is done with him or him her, I hope you draw clear boundaries about ever having contact with him again.

Skyhawk I am hoping for better tomorrows for the two of you. Time will tell I guess, Take care!


----------



## blackdog

I have really only read bits and parts of this thread. It sounds as if you have used the "if it comes back to you it is yours" test. Best of luck to you, skyhawk. Things just MIGHT work out right for you.


----------



## happyman64

skyhawk said:


> She called all weepy last night as asked me to take today off to spend with her. Arrived home an hour ago and hasn't stopped crying and saying how sorry she is and that she can never repay me for what she's done to me over the years. Has fallen asleep now.


I will call that progress in the right direction......


----------



## Nucking Futs

There's also the possibility that the OM told her he wants her but won't share her, so she's going to give you the old "I love you too much to hold you back, I'm setting you free to find the love you deserve."

Just speculation though, you'll know for sure soon enough.


----------



## happyman64

And there are many ways that she can repay you. 

Now put some consequences on her shoulders and remind her she is "your" wife.

HM


----------



## weightlifter

I read it as she did the OM then felt guilty. I feel rather sicker than before.


----------



## river rat

Skyhawk, I really feel for you. I have lived with the specter of a 3rd person in my marriage for many years. I have not left because I, as you do, love my wife; and I cherish my family. I elected to stay. I have survived my emotionally detaching. My wife and I get along as well as other married couples. We enjoy each other's company. We spend time together. People think that we have the perfect marriage. But the emotional intimacy that we once had no longer exists. When I look at her, I see someone with a very basic character flaw. And while I understand this and forgive this, I will never be able to trust her. I have a what I believe is a happy life; but that happiness is wholly dependent on me and not on my relationship with my partner.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

I am in the lucky position of a good marriage, still in love after so many years. One of the 10%.

But suppose my wife would come to me and confess she had someone she had alway loved deeply but was not having acted on him because obligations or circumstances. Suppose it would tear her apart internally.

When she would tell she would be willing to continue to be the good wife, loving me as good as she could, abstine from the other person, obligate to the rules of marriage. Sacrifice herself for continuation of marriage and for my benefit.

Then, how would I feel if I kept a wonderfull woman loving me obligatory? Would I have a choice other than let her go? No. Out of selfrespect and respect for her I would give HER the choice, find out how things are for you. I love her that much, I could never be having her in a cage of moral obligation, because she deserves better.


----------



## tom67

Keep venting here that's what we are here for.
I hope she comes around but if not you deserve the best with or without her.
Take care.


----------



## Threetimesalady

aug said:


> Caroline, you carried on an affair with a married man, your boss, when you were young. I see you do not have any regrets/remorse about that.
> 
> 
> Yup, I see the mistake OP's wife made was to married OP. But he's okay with that as evidence by the fact he knew all these years.


You've made a young woman of near 20 years old look like a pig...This was never sexual intercourse...My husband is the only man who has ever had me sexually...I am going to answer this post on my marriage thread when I get around to it...It is a post I did about nine years ago when I had my site...In it I address women and what to look out for as far as their sexual explosions in life...Kind of says it how it is......If you do learn to read, read it...It may help you....


----------



## Threetimesalady

aug said:


> How old are you?


How old are you?....What is this, you show me yours and I'll show you mine??.....If it is forget it buddy....I stay in my own class.....


----------



## manticore

skyhawk said:


> Her ex is a good guy, not a player or a sleeze, he cares for her genuinely, and is always respectful and kindly spoken to me.


Hi skyhawk, I have no way to know if he is a player or a sleeze, maybe he isn't but at least he is not a good guy.

he seduced her while he knew she was engaged, he continued this relationship for 6 months obviously knewing he was defiling other man future wife.

you wrote that your first night with her was in your weeding night.

there is a detail here that will make this whole situation have sense to me, was he also her first man?, was she virgin whenn thay had sex?.

if this was the case, this explain her behaviour, women get specially attached to the firts man they have intercourse, and given that their relationship didn't have it normal course but she (or he) forcibly end it when she returned to you, that fantasy of her first man never ended.

if this is the case , it just make the whole thing more cruel, and he the OM a much bigger bastard.

question, now that she returned after this encounter, if she can't still move on from him (even if he don't want her in his life) would you accept her still unable to let him go?


----------



## someone90

Nucking Futs said:


> There are dozens of threads on this site where your idea was tried and made matters so much worse the marriage ended. There are no threads where it was tried and succeeded.
> 
> It's a bad idea. Let her go sleep with the love of her life who is now single? This is supposed to save your marriage? Women respect strength, they despise weakness. Allowing your woman to go sleep with another man is as weak as you can get.
> 
> If you proceed with this plan your wife will end your marriage.


Exactly. One of the dumbest ****ing ideas I have ever heard.


----------



## See_Listen_Love

someone90 said:


> Exactly. One of the dumbest ****ing ideas I have ever heard.


Someone, you need to see this in perspective:

This was 'the marriage' 



> she never told me, but had a struggle deciding if she would marry him instead of me.
> 
> When we were married, she cried after the first time we had sex because she was thinking it should have been with him. Our honeymoon was basically sexless.
> 
> Eventually we settled into a routine, but sometimes when she had a good orgasm she would cry out his name, then of course be embarrassed and try to deny it. Sex became almost non-existent for many years,


Saving that, is not worth it. Better have now a decision made up after some thought by her, that continue that untrue marriage.


----------



## manticore

someone90 said:


> Exactly. One of the dumbest ****ing ideas I have ever heard.





See_Listen_Love said:


> Someone, you need to see this in perspective:
> 
> This was 'the marriage'
> 
> Saving that, is not worth it. Better have now a decision made up after some thought by her, that continue that untrue marriage.


Thre is no point in arguing this now, she already have the encounter with OM. now is the results what matter.

He hopes that his wife finally can overcome her fantazy and be truthfully his at soul and heart (which apparently have never been the case)

SH I really hope that she relizes that the fantazy is different to the reality, but if not, please move on a let her go, it seems that you have never know what means for a woman be completely yours, which is hertbreaking, for your post I can see that you are a giver but that does not mean that you don't deserve in live somepne to love you as much as you love.

if your plan does not work please take in consideration that many users here as you have thougth that they would never find someone they could love as they did with their xwifes but that was not the case, it took time but many user here have find partners that reciprocate the same love they are able to give.


----------



## skyhawk

OK for those that care, thank you. I'll keep this brief.
She (my wife) arrived home Monday morning and wept for an hour or so constantly apologizing, then fell asleep for an hour. 
The last couple of days has mostly been spent with tears, apologies, explanations and promises to do anything to make it up to me.
Apparently they spent the first couple of days talking and analyzing things to death, M. (her ex or the OM whatever term you want to use) kept reinforcing to her how I must feel, how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and explaining how he feels. Eventually ended up in bed Sat evening, they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing, I'll spare you the details. All the time M. kept making her think about the situation. 
He is happy to have her if she wants him, but what about me and the kids etc.
Sunday evening she said something went snap in her heart and she suddenly realized that while she loves M. and always will, she was heartsick for me and looking for someone to fill a gap, so when he came along and was a supportive friend... suddenly she realised that she has been projecting her feelings onto someone and the fact that they did everything except have intercourse, while we had only kissed, somehow locked her there.
Net result, absolute heartbreak, sudden realization of what she did to me and how that must feel.
She says that she will do anything to prove that I am number 1 in her life and if I don't want her any more then she understands, but wants me to know how special and valuable it is for someone to have been willing to sacrifice for her when she wasn't being worth any of that love.
All I could say was, "now you know the difference between Christianity and Religion".
Will this new found world remain, how far is she willing to go for me, she has promised to break all contact with her family if I want... I'm still a little shocked, not quite willing to make any decisions at the moment.
But the result at this point in time is I HAVE HOPE!


----------



## Rayloveshiswife

So does she want him or you? Sounds like she is choosing you for now because of how much crap you have put up with. Not a good reason to stay by a long shot. She could give you a few good months as repayment for years of misery and then go running back to him. If she is waiting to make a decision, is there a timeline on how long it will take?

Or maybe I just read this completely wrong. I would love it if that were true.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Convection

skyhawk said:


> But the result at this point in time is I HAVE HOPE!


SH, you know the drill: hope is not a plan.

I know you said you weren't ready to make any decisions yet but you need to soon, and when she says she will do anything to prove her love to you, you need to have some concrete idea of what you really want from this woman. If not, her guilt will subside in time and she will drift back to the same dynamic she's always known with you. It's just human nature, to fall back into old habits and the longer you wait from this time to make any changes, the harder they will be to enact. Honestly, after years of putting you through this ringer, she is in such a deep hole, I have no idea how for her to even dig her way out of it and I am sure she doesn't either - other than letting her guilt overwhelm her, which is really about her needs and easing her pain, since you run to comfort her.

From what you wrote (saying you'd be okay if she had him on the side), I guess you'd be satisfied with the old marriage dynamic if her mind wasn't on him. I think that's a poor way to live but it's your life and only you can decide. If that's what you want, okay. If you want to do something different, do it soon, while she is still willing.

Good luck (meant sincerely, not sarcastically).


----------



## anchorwatch

He told her she was making a mistake leaving you, that she would regret it. Then he beds her, how noble of him. Do not believe for once there was no PIV. Can I guess you were told he had ED? All the conversation and reflection wasn't going to stop heat of the moment. Enough of them, their motives of sexual attraction are not that complicated. 

How about you, Shyhawk? Why do you think your wife is sexually attracted to another man above you? Is your first devotion to science, discovery, teaching? Does she feel less intelligent around you? How about at home? Are you too involved as provider and patriarch? Why doesn't she think of you as her lover? Do you consider yourself you wife's lover above all other titles? 

Have you examined why this is? Is that to ridiculous to consider? You're a man in search of the truth, what studies have you explored on the subject of sexual attraction?


----------



## alexm

skyhawk said:


> OK for those that care, thank you. I'll keep this brief.
> She (my wife) arrived home Monday morning and wept for an hour or so constantly apologizing, then fell asleep for an hour.
> The last couple of days has mostly been spent with tears, apologies, explanations and promises to do anything to make it up to me.
> Apparently they spent the first couple of days talking and analyzing things to death, M. (her ex or the OM whatever term you want to use) kept reinforcing to her how I must feel, how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and explaining how he feels. Eventually ended up in bed Sat evening, they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing, I'll spare you the details. All the time M. kept making her think about the situation.
> He is happy to have her if she wants him, but what about me and the kids etc.
> Sunday evening she said something went snap in her heart and she suddenly realized that while she loves M. and always will, she was heartsick for me and looking for someone to fill a gap, so when he came along and was a supportive friend... suddenly she realised that she has been projecting her feelings onto someone and the fact that they did everything except have intercourse, while we had only kissed, somehow locked her there.
> Net result, absolute heartbreak, sudden realization of what she did to me and how that must feel.
> She says that she will do anything to prove that I am number 1 in her life and if I don't want her any more then she understands, but wants me to know how special and valuable it is for someone to have been willing to sacrifice for her when she wasn't being worth any of that love.
> All I could say was, "now you know the difference between Christianity and Religion".
> Will this new found world remain, how far is she willing to go for me, she has promised to break all contact with her family if I want... I'm still a little shocked, not quite willing to make any decisions at the moment.
> But the result at this point in time is I HAVE HOPE!


Here's what I read from this:

OM played the "are you sure you're sure?" card, thinking it was the noble/right thing to do. He obviously has some guilt.

This played heavily in your wife, and now she has some guilt. (or MORE guilt than before).

They still ended up in bed together.

So she comes back home, and is riddled with guilt. Her fantasy man put some doubt into her, and now she's not sure. Here you are, solid as a rock, all that she's known for 20 years, someone who won't guilt her or make her feel bad.

The grass wasn't greener, and she's taking the easy way out. The grass wasn't dead and brown, either, so she's conflicted and confused. OM didn't say "hell no, go back to your husband, this is ridiculous" (as he SHOULD have...), but he didn't exactly welcome her with open arms and angels singing and birds chirping, either.

She's taking the safe route. OM put enough doubt in her mind that she's now thinking which is the safest route to go. YOU, who will be there for the rest of her life, or OM, who may or may not, but even if he does, the specter of you will follow given the 6 degrees of separation the two sides have, as well as the kids.

Make no mistake, she still wants him. She was hoping he'd swoop her away in his arms like it happens in the movies, and they'd live happily ever after and she'd be sure she made the right choice.

OM didn't do this, and instead tried to play devil's advocate and make sure the two of them SHOULD do this.

THAT speaks volumes. If he felt the way your wife did/does, he would not have tried to convince her otherwise.

I think that what happened to her Sunday evening was the realization that HE does not want HER the same way she wants him, and she's heartbroken.

But hey, she has Plan B to come home to... You.

If you're okay with being Plan B your whole life, then that's your prerogative.

Just be prepared for when she meets another man somewhere down the line who she realizes is the love of her life. Because trust me, you're not it. She won't stop looking, either, because she knows you're not him, and I think you know, too.

Don't see this as a victory, even if it is in the short term. The real war has just begun, as you've allowed her to open Pandora's box, and there's no return.


----------



## Jellybeans

skyhawk said:


> M. (her ex or the OM whatever term you want to use)* kept reinforcing to her how I must feel, how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot *and explaining how he feels.
> 
> All the time *M. kept making her think about the situation. *
> He is happy to have her if she wants him, *but what about me and the kids etc*.


To me this translates to that he is telling her in a roundabout way that she is making a big fcking mistake in leaving you and that he really doesn't want her. Because he keeps going back to you/referencing you and how you must feel...

Men? Am I right? 

It's just that when a guy isn't gung-ho about something or keeps referencing an excuse, it seems he ain't all that into it.

I could be wrong.

Oh and I wouldn't really get too attached to the feeling that they didn't totally bang eachothers' brains out. Because they probably did. Several times.



skyhawk said:


> But the result at this point in time is *I HAVE HOPE*!


It's strange to me that you seem so excited about this. So happy. 

Your wife just did you wrong int he worst way and you seem to be...celebrating a "maybe." Please please find your self-respect and dignity.


----------



## Jellybeans

lifeistooshort said:


> OM probably told her it's not happening. That's usually the reaction spouses get when the OM//OW dumps the ws.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

That's what I think went down.



just got it 55 said:


> Very fvcking predictable no ?


Oh so very.


----------



## alexm

Jellybeans said:


> To me this translates to that he is telling her in a roundabout way that she is making a big fcking mistake in leaving you and that he really doesn't want her. Because he keeps going back to you/referencing you and how you must feel...
> 
> Men? Am I right?
> 
> *I don't think so, exactly.
> 
> I think OM probably DOES want OP's wife, but he has some guilt about it. Enough to put the seed of doubt into her - in essence, forcing HER to make the decision, not him. This way, he he's not forced to make decisions that can impact 3 people, plus kids, plus extraneous family members (remember, there's a connection with OM and the wife's family...)
> 
> It is THIS that is making him a coward.
> 
> So now we have 3 cowards involved in a love triangle. That'll work...
> 
> One of them has to step up and make a decision, but none of them are willing to do so. Instead, it's a soap opera. Good times.*
> 
> It's strange to me that you seem so excited about this. So happy.
> 
> Your wife just did you wrong int he worst way and you seem to be...celebrating a "maybe." Please please find your self-respect and dignity.
> 
> *Yup. And to make matters worse, none of the people involved in this have any. Somebody better step up (OP, I'm looking at you) and end this. *


----------



## Tall Average Guy

See_Listen_Love said:


> Then, how would I feel if I kept a wonderfull woman loving me obligatory? Would I have a choice other than let her go? No. Out of selfrespect and respect for her I would give HER the choice, find out how things are for you. I love her that much, I could never be having her in a cage of moral obligation, because she deserves better.


I agree. But I also would not want her back if being with me caused her such terrible hurt and pain.


----------



## tom67

skyhawk said:


> OK for those that care, thank you. I'll keep this brief.
> She (my wife) arrived home Monday morning and wept for an hour or so constantly apologizing, then fell asleep for an hour.
> The last couple of days has mostly been spent with tears, apologies, explanations and promises to do anything to make it up to me.
> Apparently they spent the first couple of days talking and analyzing things to death, M. (her ex or the OM whatever term you want to use) kept reinforcing to her how I must feel, how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and explaining how he feels. Eventually ended up in bed Sat evening, they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing, I'll spare you the details. All the time M. kept making her think about the situation.
> He is happy to have her if she wants him, but what about me and the kids etc.
> Sunday evening she said something went snap in her heart and she suddenly realized that while she loves M. and always will, she was heartsick for me and looking for someone to fill a gap, so when he came along and was a supportive friend... suddenly she realised that she has been projecting her feelings onto someone and the fact that they did everything except have intercourse, while we had only kissed, somehow locked her there.
> Net result, absolute heartbreak, sudden realization of what she did to me and how that must feel.
> She says that she will do anything to prove that I am number 1 in her life and if I don't want her any more then she understands, but wants me to know how special and valuable it is for someone to have been willing to sacrifice for her when she wasn't being worth any of that love.
> All I could say was, "now you know the difference between Christianity and Religion".
> Will this new found world remain, how far is she willing to go for me, she has promised to break all contact with her family if I want... I'm still a little shocked, not quite willing to make any decisions at the moment.
> But the result at this point in time is I HAVE HOPE!


Instead of waiting for her, what do YOU want.
Life is short make the most of it bro.


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## Jellybeans

I am having thread de ja vu. For those of you who have been on TAM awhile... remember the one guy who's wife had a long-distance emotional affair with some loser and the OP in t hat thread was pissed but "let her" go take a vacation to see the guy so she could "get it out of her system" and whatnot? and she kept stringing him along and along and along because OP never stood up for himself and kept excepting her crumbs? I think he even paid for her travel to go see the OM.

It was a million pages long, that thread. It reminds me of this one.


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## anchorwatch

Jellybeans said:


> To me this translates to that he is telling her in a roundabout way that she is making a big fcking mistake in leaving you and that he really doesn't want her. Because he keeps going back to you/referencing you and how you must feel...
> 
> Men? Am I right?


No, Jelly. Not right.

He played her! It's typical Push / Pull tactic. He knows she's attracted, that's why shes there. He just acts concerned for her, yet aloof enough so she feels safe that he's not just taking advantage of the situation, so she puts her guard down. Then she puts her head on his shoulder because he 'understands her' and bang she's his's. He wanted to bang her, he did, and he'll do it as long as she's willing.


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## Tall Average Guy

Jellybeans said:


> To me this translates to that he is telling her in a roundabout way that she is making a big fcking mistake in leaving you and that he really doesn't want her. Because he keeps going back to you/referencing you and how you must feel...
> 
> Men? Am I right?
> 
> It's just that when a guy isn't gung-ho about something or keeps referencing an excuse, it seems he ain't all that into it.
> 
> I could be wrong.
> 
> Oh and I wouldn't really get too attached to the feeling that they didn't totally bang eachothers' brains out. Because they probably did. Several times.


I tend to agree. Perhaps he felt some guilt, but not enough to not bang her over the weekend. I don't think it was Saturday only, but the OP needs to believe that. The OM was probably setting the stage to have a fun weekend but with the built in excuse of guilt to end things.



> It's strange to me that you seem so excited about this. So happy.
> 
> Your wife just did you wrong int he worst way and you seem to be...celebrating a "maybe." Please please find your self-respect and dignity.


I don't get it either, but his posts clearly demonstrate that he believes he does not deserve any better. I hope he can fix this.


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## Jellybeans

Tall Average Guy said:


> I tend to agree. Perhaps he felt some guilt, *but not enough to not bang her over the weekend. *I


Well, yeah. It's not like she wasn't putting it out there for him on a silver platter.




Tall Average Guy said:


> I don't get it either, but his posts clearly demonstrate that he believes he does not deserve any better.


:iagree:

Doormat 101. Just calling a spade a spade, OP. I do not mean to offend but that is how this entire post reads -- that you will accept anything she dishes your way and will not stand up for yourself at all.


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## tom67

So what happens when he calls her again to come out. Are you just going to let her get it out of her system again?
Sky by letting her go do this you have become so beta and weak in her eyes I don't see the marriage lasting.
Sorry just have to call it as I see it.


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## manfromlamancha

How is this any different to her coming back from her travels all those years ago to choose safer, better-marriage-material you instead of her boyfriend. The only difference is that last time only heavy petting, this time she went to bed and had PIV - then she'll start yearning for something else she didn't do with him and the whole thing starts again. The OM should have put her straight and sent her home if he was decent - instead he bedded her! After assuaging his guilt with "are you sure" knowing fully well that she was sure. Skyhawk, this is not self sacrifice and please don't taint Christianity by calling it Christianity - it is madness - definition; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I understand that you are afraid to throw away a (fake) lifetime together but you owe it to yourself to put this right once and for all. She cheated on you back then with her family's encouragement and once again this time, with yours !

She needs help to improve herself and you need to think long and hard about continuing this farce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## treyvion

anchorwatch said:


> No, Jelly. Not right.
> 
> He played her! It's typical Push / Pull tactic. He knows she's attracted, that's why shes there. He just acts concerned for her, yet aloof enough so she feels safe that he's not just taking advantage of the situation, so she puts her guard down. Then she puts her head on his shoulder because he 'understands her' and bang she's his's. He wanted to bang her, he did, and he'll do it as long as she's willing.


Even if you have a big load of masculinity, this type of arrangement bleeds it out as long as it's going on. Not healthy and can affect your life for very many years to for ever...


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## Caribbean Man

Jellybeans said:


> Well, yeah. It's not like she wasn't putting it out there for him on a silver platter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :iagree:
> 
> Doormat 101. Just calling a spade a spade, OP. I do not mean to offend but that is how this entire post reads --* that you will accept anything she dishes your way and will not stand up for yourself at all.*


:iagree:

Yup.


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## Caribbean Man

manfromlamancha said:


> How is this any different to her coming back from her travels all those years ago to choose safer, better-marriage-material you instead of her boyfriend. The only difference is that last time only heavy petting, this time she went to bed and had PIV - then she'll start yearning for something else she didn't do with him and the whole thing starts again. *The OM should have put her straight and sent her home if he was decent - instead he bedded her! After assuaging his guilt with "are you sure" knowing fully well that she was sure. *
> 
> *Skyhawk, this is not self sacrifice and please don't taint Christianity by calling it Christianity - it is madness - definition; doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I understand that you are afraid to throw away a (fake) lifetime together but you owe it to yourself to put this right once and for all. She cheated on you back then with her family's encouragement and once again this time, with yours !
> *
> *She needs help to improve herself and you need to think long and hard about continuing this farce.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:


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## manticore

OP, many comments may seem harsh, but many have alot of truth in them.

Again, I hope that with this you wife will be able to move on and be really yours now, I see that you almost never answer the questions asked in the comments but I hope that you at least are reading all the comments.

*A warning, your wife have crossed dangerous line, extramarital sex, and OM knows now that she is attracted to him, please be aware, as I told you I don't consider him a good person, so It will not be weird for me if OM look for a way to have an affair behind your back with her, after all remember that affairs most of the time are to cover 5% of the needs that the women feel are missing, while the husband is covering the other 95%, please don't expect the better of people because most of the time that people will dissapoint you.*

OM can use lines as, o but your husband was okey before so lets do it without him knowing to not hurt him, people when they involve in affair they rationalize they acts even knowing that they are wrong (like your wife who rationalized that she had to know if OM was the one).

finally again, I hope that now she will able to be sexually and mentally yours only, but if this is not the case please do what is best for you, move on and look for someone who can be 100% yours.


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## treyvion

Caribbean Man said:


> :iagree:


God never meant for marriage to become defiled, and a cross that someone must bear. Jesus beared a cross so we wouldn't have to.

He doesn't want people to be a fool and bury their hand in the sand.


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## tom67

treyvion said:


> God never meant for marriage to become defiled, and a cross that someone must bear. Jesus beared a cross so we wouldn't have to.
> 
> He doesn't want people to be a fool and bury their hand in the sand.


I guess he figures he has been a martyr this long why not just keep it going.
Life is too short for this crap but that is just me.


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## treyvion

tom67 said:


> I guess he figures he has been a martyr this long why not just keep it going.
> Life is too short for this crap but that is just me.


Life IS too short! Who the hell wants to get to their deathbed and realize they wasted the last 20-40 years in a sexless, affectionless situation, and they find out from god that they never loved them anyhow...


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## Hicks

Waiting for this thread to disappear.


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## Jellybeans

Why?


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## alte Dame

This OM is NOT an honorable person. You are ascribing character to him when there isn't much.

He winds up in bed with a married woman after 'talking from the heart' about why she shouldn't be doing it. Right.

This isn't some noble tragedy. It is sordid and he is a creep with no decency.


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## just got it 55

tom67 said:


> So what happens when he calls her again to come out. Are you just going to let her get it out of her system again?
> *Sky by letting her go do this you have become so beta and weak in her eyes I don't see the marriage lasting.*Sorry just have to call it as I see it.


:iagree: Sky what other conclusion could she come to

Never share your wife with another period

She is you wife or she is not just one choice

IMHO

55


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## anchorwatch

*Re: Re: wife still in love with ex boyfriend.*



Hicks said:


> Waiting for this thread to disappear.


It is frustrating to watch. 

IMO, if it helps one lurker to see what's at stake by not being proactive in a relationship, it's worth the nausea.


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## weightlifter

Post 176


weightlifter said:


> I read it as she did the OM then felt guilty. I feel rather sicker than before.


Post 186
> Eventually ended up in bed Sat evening, they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing, I'll spare you the details.< (Dude they fvcked. Cmon You know it) Im sorry.

UGH. Why oh why cant I ever be wrong.

Yes I realize I am wired COMPLETELY differently than the OP (I would have punted her for distance as she left) but this thread actually made me feel ill cause I still wanted it to come out alright for him.

Am I the only feeling a bit ill?


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## alte Dame

weightlifter said:


> Post 176
> 
> Am I the only feeling a bit ill?


No.


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## bandit.45

weightlifter said:


> Post 176
> Am I the only feeling a bit ill?


Actually I'm laughing my azz off. This is the first time this kind of thread has made me laugh.

Talk about a comedy of errors. Shakespear would have a field day with this fvcked up story. 

The sad part is, Skyhawk isn't going to listen to any good advice from us mere mortals. He's got a marksman's bead on the universe. This affair and its ramifications are all a mathematical construct, and he will abide by the logic of whatever equation his exalted mind comes up with. Anyone who comes up with an alternate theory to his is to be ignored. 

Fvcking pathetic. I'm gone.


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## Clay2013

Um wow....... 

I hate this thread. Someone needs to kick me in the head for even reading this one.


Clay


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## sandc

So the reality didn't match up to the fantasy for them huh? Bummer.

May I suggest the "hotwife" lifestyle to you both?

If you wanted to stir people up and trigger them, well, you did it! :smthumbup:


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## harrybrown

So when is your turn?

If she does not cut him out of your family's life, then divorce.

So she got to do what she wanted. Ask her how she is going to make up to you for making you feel and be her backup plan?


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## anchorwatch

bandit.45 said:


> Actually I'm laughing my azz off. This is the first time this kind of thread has made me laugh.
> 
> Talk about a comedy of errors. Shakespear would have a field day with this fvcked up story.
> 
> The sad part is, Skyhawk isn't going to listen to any good advice from us mere mortals. He's got a marksman's bead on the universe. This affair and its ramifications are all a mathematical construct, and he will abide by the logic of whatever equation his exalted mind comes up with. Anyone who comes up with an alternate theory to his is to be ignored.
> 
> Fvcking pathetic. I'm gone.


I believe this is true. Skyhawk's view of the situation is idealistic, not based in the simple reality of sexual behaviors between the sexes. He thinks of himself as noble as Arthur, while his wife is Geunivere and the OM Lancelot. But that''s only a tale, not reality.


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## Tall Average Guy

anchorwatch said:


> I believe this is true. Skyhawk's view of the situation is idealistic, not based in the simple reality of sexual behaviors between the sexes. He thinks of himself as noble as Arthur, while his wife is Geunivere and the OM Lancelot. But that''s only a tale, not reality.


I also think he has a bad case of "oneitis." That is, she is the only one in the universe that he can love and be happy with. It is either her, or a life all alone filled with misery.


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## aug

Threetimesalady said:


> You've made a young woman of near 20 years old look like a pig...This was never sexual intercourse...My husband is the only man who has ever had me sexually...I am going to answer this post on my marriage thread when I get around to it...It is a post I did about nine years ago when I had my site...In it I address women and what to look out for as far as their sexual explosions in life...Kind of says it how it is......If you do learn to read, read it...It may help you....



I was on your thread a while back in the Long Term section. You did admit to having an affair with your married boss. I called you out on it.


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## aug

skyhawk said:


> OK for those that care, thank you. I'll keep this brief.
> She (my wife) arrived home Monday morning and wept for an hour or so constantly apologizing, then fell asleep for an hour.
> The last couple of days has mostly been spent with tears, apologies, explanations and promises to do anything to make it up to me.
> Apparently they spent the first couple of days talking and analyzing things to death, M. (her ex or the OM whatever term you want to use) kept reinforcing to her how I must feel, how would she feel if the shoe was on the other foot and explaining how he feels. *Eventually ended up in bed Sat evening, they enjoyed themselves acting out all the things they only talked about doing, I'll spare you the details.* All the time M. kept making her think about the situation.
> He is happy to have her if she wants him, but what about me and the kids etc.
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> But the result at this point in time is *I HAVE HOPE!*



Wow!

Sent the wife to have sex with her long term lover. Wife gives husband details of sexual encounter.

Husband still has "HOPE".

Interesting. Very interesting...


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## Deejo

Heading this one off at the pass.

OP is free to follow up with questions or concerns in a new thread.

This one's done.


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