# Need help with WW



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

I will try to keep this as short as possible, but I need opinions on how to procede from here...15 years married-18 together. Two kids 11& 9. I am 45 she is 43. While our marriage was never perfect it was always very good at least in my opinion. Lots of affection and I always felt loved.

Wife took a new job in January 2011. She was a in a sales support role at her company covering three offices that were far apart. Before she took the job she told me one of the office managers in the local office made her uncomfortable telling her how beautiful she was in the interview. She said at the time it was like he was hitting on her. I told her not to take the job, but after 4 months of being unemployed and having no other options she ended up taking it. She told me "you know me-I don't go for that crap" and I believed her as she always been so against infidelity to the point of it making her sick...She also would only see him 1-2 days a week. 

Fast forward to November 2011. She has become distant and really crabby and nasty towards me. Distant with the kids and hardly seeing them. She is also, due to her travel, coming home late very often and going out to dinner with co-workers often. At Christmas she took off her wedding ring to stuff the turkey and told me she couldn't get it back on. (verified) In December she shaved her pubic area out of the blue. I had asked her to do this many times before and she told me it would make it too itchy. So the red flags start piling up...Weird Christmas gift from her to me-lingere. (no interest in using it though) She said the "guys at work" thought it was a great idea. Starts flipping her phone over while on the charger so the texts don't show. New sexy underwear. She lost a bunch of weight and was constantly working out etc. Looks hot. Sex life while never great declines further and she seems like she is just going through the motions. Sex life has always been an issue with us since the birth of my son in 2003. She seems to have no drive.

February comes and I notice her get a text at 10:00pm from this guy. I check later and it was deleted along with all the texts from him. I go into James Bond mode and look at the cell phone records. She has been texting him at all hours-300 messages in a two week period! So I buy a VAR and throw it under her seat and pick up a conversation between them with her talking me down to him...not good. Making fun of me about taking her away by surprise for her birthday etc. How she is going to tell me to “get the fxxk out of her house in 5-7 years” (when kids graduate HS)

So I confront her too soon about all the messages, don’t want to tip my hand about the VAR. Her reaction was "this marriage is over-there is no trust" She was really pissed I read her messages. SO I said you are right I will be pursuing divorce and kicked her out of our bedroom. At 6:00 am she crawls into be crying and telling me she loves me and wants me and our marriage. We have passionate sex and talk again the next day...More passionate sex...
My gut is still screaming at this point. One Saturday in March while backing her car out to wash it a text comes in from him on her phone that she left in her car. I pretend I am her and told him "he knows". I told him to "call me". When he did I answered and told him he was interfering in our marriage and to back the Fxxk off. He said it was all work related and he was sorry. Yeah right. Many long phone conversations on the weekend whenever I was out of the house with the kids….I was suspecting an EA at this point but my gut said PA due to underwear and shaving etc..

Things seemed to get better at this point. Texting and calling dropped way off and we seemed to be on the path to recovery. However, in April she has the opportunity to take a job in this local office working directly for this guy. I tried so hard to get her to take a different position with the company to the point of moving, but she ends up taking this job due to her company president directly asking her. I was not happy with this, but it would mean a big increase in pay etc. She takes the job and it seems to be better. No texting/calling on weekends. She is coming right home after work etc.She seems to be “in” the marriage again. She tells me they don’t get along as workers and they fight all the time etc. This is verified through her emails etc. So I figured whatever it was it seems to be over…Wrong.
July when we are on vacation I notice her checking her phone a lot. I read a bunch of emails exchanged, mostly work related but bantering back and forth. At this point I am trying really hard to get some concrete evidence. Bought several iphone deleted text recovery programs and was able to get tons of messages exchanged, but no smoking gun-just banter. There was one text from October 2011 where she tells him “miss you ”, but I think she could just twist it around to be nothing etc. She is very skilled at lying and manipulating people…it’s what she does for a living..In August she had to go on a business conference and he was there. She only would call me around 10:00pm when she was going to bed. The last night there she called me and we talked for 20 minutes until 10:50pm. She said she was in her pajamas and ready for bed. Then I saw she texted him at 10:55pm. After she returned I checked and of course it was deleted. She was also very distant and pissy towards me after the trip.
Now it is September and I am going crazy over this limbo crap. VAR has produced nothing. Conversations between them are short and all business. She has been texting again and deleting them sometimes though. I have not picked up anything incriminating with the software. I then installed a key logger on her phone, but again nothing. My thoughts are it has become an only “in person” thing. This guy seems like a pro. Yes, he is married with three kids too-scumbag. But now I found a work suit of hers that had a very suspicious stain on the back leg area. I bought a home semen test and it came out positive. Just to be sure I sent it to a lab and it just came back positive for semen and human saliva. However remote (since when we fool around she is never in a suit), there is the possibility that she dripped on it after sex with me since she is messy and her suits are sometimes on the floor between the bed and the bathroom. She has not performed oral sex on me in a long time (another issue), so it would have to be my saliva from doing her? So I ordered a DNA extraction and should get the results Friday. If they can get the DNA I then will need to send a sample of mine to compare…it takes 6-7 working days-killing me! If they can’t do you think this is enough evidence to confront again? I don’t want to go through another D-Day without solid proof-it didn’t work last time. I could bluff saying I have the DNA evidence anyway even if I don’t, but I need to “know” for myself. My plan is to get a sample DNA from his recycling bin to match if they are able to extract the DNA. (not always possible). 

I have called the HR dept lady and she told me without evidence they cannot investigate. She knows them both and refuses to believe it. "He is a good family man" she says. Should I share the evidence with her? I really want this guy to be fired for violating company policy regarding relationships with subordinates. I do realize my wife could be fired too, but the way I look at it is she would need to leave this job as any condition for R anyway. That is if R is even possible at this point. I am not sure I could ever trust her again with all the lies. She would have to grovel and agree to my many conditions before I would even consider R. Also, our financial condition is bad at this time and D would mean selling house, taking kids out of private schools, selling a car, etc. Disaster, but I do have my pride and integrity and will start over if I have to.

Here is my plan after I hopefully get a DNA profile:

1.	go meet with the OMW and share everything with her
2.	confront WW with hard evidence
3. Expose to family and friends
4.	kick WW out of the house. (will pack her **** in garbage bags and drop at her work)
5.	file for D
6.	Call the HR dept and give them the full story and evidence this is going on in their office

What do you think of my plan? Please let me know your advice-I could really use it!

B


----------



## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

I am surprised you went as far as DNA testing. I think you plan is great.

1. go meet with the OMW and share everything with her

Make it a one time deal. You do not need to keep in contact after the evidence is presented.

2. confront WW with hard evidence

I would love to see her face when you show her the DNA test. Be ready for the tears and I am sorry.

3. kick WW out of the house. (will pack her **** in garbage bags and drop at her work)

It sounds like you are done.

4. file for D

I would actually file then confront her, that way when all the talking is done you can hand her the papers.

5. Call the HR dept and give them the full story and evidence this is going on in their office

I wouldn't worry about contacting the HR department. Let them work together. That way they can have a reminder everyday of what both of them were hell bent on destroying.


----------



## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

Sounds like a good plan to me, you already know that they are having a PA, no doubt, they jsut took it underground after you confronted her about the phone records. Stay on this path.


----------



## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

underwater2010 said:


> 4. file for D
> 
> I would actually file then confront her, that way when all the talking is done you can hand her the papers.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:



underwater2010 said:


> 5. Call the HR dept and give them the full story and evidence this is going on in their office
> 
> I wouldn't worry about contacting the HR department. Let them work together. That way they can have a reminder everyday of what both of them were hell bent on destroying.


This one is up to you, I would personally give all of the evidence to HR, particularly if they are using company resources (computers, phones, company time) for their affair.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

I am surprised you went as far as DNA testing. I think you plan is great.
*Had to...tested panties but must be using condom*
1. go meet with the OMW and share everything with her

Make it a one time deal. You do not need to keep in contact after the evidence is presented.
*This is the plan, but I want to keep in contact in case we do somehow R-verify*
2. confront WW with hard evidence

I would love to see her face when you show her the DNA test. Be ready for the tears and I am sorry.
*I need to have a successful extraction though...do you think the positive test I have now is enough to confront?*
3. kick WW out of the house. (will pack her **** in garbage bags and drop at her work)

It sounds like you are done.
*If she is not remorseful and begging-yes*

4. file for D

I would actually file then confront her, that way when all the talking is done you can hand her the papers.
*Going to get the paperwork today...*
5. Call the HR dept and give them the full story and evidence this is going on in their office

I wouldn't worry about contacting the HR department. Let them work together. That way they can have a reminder everyday of what both of them were hell bent on destroying.
*I want this guy to pay a huge price*
[Reply] [!!]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Your plan of action and your actions seem good. They have probably gone inderground wih the affair. No matter if they are or are not, NC!!! Is key. After you do all your steps you can always take her back, but youll be moved on and in order for you to take her back you need the grounds set for R. Just start your plan, why live like this, she needs a wake up call, a withdrawal from this disgusting man and this gross relationship. 
She is deleting texts....why? Its work related, so why?

Do not have sex with her, or talk to her, just surprise her with the D, retain a lawyer.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

the only amendment to add is that when you get confirmation that the semen isn't yours and you tell OMW. Ask her if she would like to compare her husband's DNA to the semen (she can get a hair or something from him)


----------



## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> need to have a successful extraction though...do you think the positive test I have now is enough to confront?
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You have plenty of evidence that they are having an affair, but as long as you can make it, wait for the DNA evidence as well, this will also give you time to file the divorce papers.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

I would not worry about trying to get his DNA to test. If the DNA test come back as not yours, do you really care who it belongs to?

I think you can make a reasonable assumption that it belongs to the guy she is exchanging texts and message with and who travels overnight with her.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

TDSC60 said:


> I would not worry about trying to get his DNA to test. If the DNA test come back as not yours, do you really care who it belongs to?
> 
> I think you can make a reasonable assumption that it belongs to the guy she is exchanging texts and message with and who travels overnight with her.



no I am saying to offer to the OMW if she wants her own testing to confirm it's her husband to make sure the lab keeps a record of the DNA available so she can compare if she wants


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I would use a lawyer to contact the HR dept, the woman you have talked to obviously wants to ignore and rug sweep, Having a lawyer contact her will show you mean business.

Have you the money for a PI?


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I also bet she's got a burner phone. After you texted him as her, they knew you were watching there and you blew your opportunity.

This is very deep underground by now.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

You are in this far, you might as well wait for the results, try to build an airtight case. As is she can weasel her way out, plausible deniability. Plus you'll need to take away any wiggle room from the HR person.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> no I am saying to offer to the OMW if she wants her own testing to confirm it's her husband to make sure the lab keeps a record of the DNA available so she can compare if she wants


Excellent idea. Definitely compare with the OMW if she will cooperate.

I like your plan.

The more you can put on her in one day the better.
Hand her papers. Check.
Drop clothes in garbage bags at work. Check.
Inform families about A. Check.

Then sit back and let her stew in their juices so she understands what she has done.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Sorry you are here and what you are going through. Good plan but I would also expose to family and friends. She is going to try an spin it. You have to get to her parents first and the friends. You have to move fast when you expose.

Best of luck to you. Take care of yourself and your kids.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> the only amendment to add is that when you get confirmation that the semen isn't yours and you tell OMW. Ask her if she would like to compare her husband's DNA to the semen (she can get a hair or something from him)


*Thought about this but she is a SAHM and most likely (if she's smart) won't want that level of evidence because I could get him fired*


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Onmyway said:


> You have plenty of evidence that they are having an affair, but as long as you can make it, wait for the DNA evidence as well, this will also give you time to file the divorce papers.


*Yes, I know but the only hard evidence I have is the semen test and the "miss you " text. They work together so they do have reasons to talk/text due to business. However, why are the text being deleted...hmmm*


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

mahike said:


> Sorry you are here and what you are going through. Good plan but I would also expose to family and friends. She is going to try an spin it. You have to get to her parents first and the friends. You have to move fast when you expose.
> 
> Best of luck to you. Take care of yourself and your kids.


*Yes, full exposure should have been on my list as well. Her parents and sister will be the first calls I make. Next her best friend (who I think knows) as well as mutual friends of ours.

I am also considering telling co-workers of theirs as well in order to break the "secret thrill" factor for them. I do run the risk of her being so embarrassed she would never consider R. I consider this the nuclear option...*

*Thank you so much for your kind words. This last 8.5 months have been hell, but I managed to drop lots of weight with diet and exercise and got back to a 32 waist (from 36). I look good and have been starting to get more and more female attention. I have to believe there are plenty of available women out there that would love to have a man with integrity, confidence, and with lots of love to give to a deserving woman...*


----------



## CleanJerkSnatch (Jul 18, 2012)

Expose. Decide how much evidence you need before acting. Some BS wait until its in their face, other smarter ones start acting NOW!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

CleanJerkSnatch said:


> Expose. Decide how much evidence you need before acting. Some BS wait until its in their face, other smarter ones start acting NOW!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


*Do you think the positive semen test is enough? What if it somehow is from me (doubtful but still...) It has certainly not been in my face...it is deep underground for sure now.

One more thing to add...She had to work late again last night. She texted me so I called her from her office parking lot and told her I was on my way home for the kids. I asked her if she was alone and also asked if the guy showed up at work (he was at an off-site meeting) She said he showed up at 3:30 and left about 5:30. I joked "tough day at the office" and blew it off to her...His car was in the lot so they were together. LIE Got to ask myself why lie? She did tell me another employee was working on the proposal with her, but I don't know what he drives. The main office building is locked after 5:00 so I can't get in..*.

Thanks,
B


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Have you started protecting/insulating your financial assets from her? Remove yourself from any joint bank accounts, credit cards, etc. Remove her as beneficiary from your life insurance.

Rewrite your will.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

My thought on getting _his_ DNA is then I will have 100% proof that it is him. Then I can destroy his career, marriage, and family just like he did to mine. Just rewards for such a POS.

B


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Well Bob at least you know one thing for sure, she is still lying to you.

You should have taken the air out of his tires last night....

I would have picked up the kids and waited for them to leave the building. 

Just tell the kids you want to make sure Mommygets home ok.

1 nuclear option coming up!!!


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

aug said:


> Have you started protecting/insulating your financial assets from her? Remove yourself from any joint bank accounts, credit cards, etc. Remove her as beneficiary from your life insurance.
> 
> Rewrite your will.


I have started skimming cash to prepare for attorney retainer. I also took her engagement ring (1cwt perfect diamond and gold rings) and I have a pile of silver coins. She does not know I have it. I cannot really remove her from the bank account as she has direct deposit and her name needs to be on the account. The one joint card we have is bumping against the limit due to her fiscal immaturity, but I will remove her from life insurance for sure.

I am trying to protect myself, but I still have to pay the bills. I do think she is skimming money from her monthly bonus check, but I can have an attorney find any accounts she has stashed.

B


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Well Bob at least you one thing for sure, she is still lying to you.
> 
> You should have taken the air out of his tires last night....
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, it would take me more than an hour to round trip and they have cameras in the parking lot....


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you grab and test her panties from last night?
If they are having sex at work then you've really got something HR can't turn a blind eye too.


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> I have started skimming cash to prepare for attorney retainer. I also took her engagement ring (1cwt perfect diamond and gold rings) and I have a pile of silver coins. She does not know I have it. *I cannot really remove her from the bank account as she has direct deposit and her name needs to be on the account. *The one joint card we have is bumping against the limit due to her fiscal immaturity, but I will remove her from life insurance for sure.
> 
> I am trying to protect myself, but I still have to pay the bills. I do think she is skimming money from her monthly bonus check, but I can have an attorney find any accounts she has stashed.
> 
> B


Then open a new account and deposit your money into the new account. Also, take half of what is in the joint account as your half of the marital assets. Then have no more to do with it. If you are still residing together when "it" hits the fan, then demand she pay half of those household expenses out of "her account" (which is the 'joint' account minus your money).

And of course remove her from all joint credit card accounts.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Unfortunately, it would take me more than an hour to round trip and they have cameras in the parking lot....


Oh cameras would have been perfect.

They would confirm you we're there in their parking lot as your wife lied to you on the phone.

Wait till they ask him why You were taking air out of his tires.....

Maybe then you can ask to see their head of human resources for a meeting. Bring the OMW with you.

Perfect.......


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So she sexed you a little bit and you totally forgot about her plan to kick you out in 5-7 years? Try the PI route when she is on business trips or out with this guy.

Don't do the same mistake again. It looks like she knows all your methods. this woman is an accomplished cheater.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

survivorwife said:


> Then open a new account and deposit your money into the new account. Also, take half of what is in the joint account as your half of the marital assets. Then have no more to do with it. If you are still residing together when "it" hits the fan, then demand she pay half of those household expenses out of "her account" (which is the 'joint' account minus your money).
> 
> And of course remove her from all joint credit card accounts.


Great advice.

Then when your wife asks you why you did this just say to her "if you keep lying to me wait till you see what I do next" then walk away.

You really need a PI. For now put a VAR in her car. Let it o or a few days.

Then listen.


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> My thought on getting _his_ DNA is then I will have 100% proof that it is him. Then I can destroy his career, marriage, and family just like he did to mine. Just rewards for such a POS.
> 
> B


Your wife has had sex with this guy many times. Get his dna and get full satisfaction of blowing up this guy's life. A week or two longer won't make any difference.

When you do confront, do not tell her your evidence right away, just that you know and see what other details you can get.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

A complaint to the HR dept carries more weight if it was done in writing. Address it to the HR manager and cc his superior.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Well I may have my answer sooner than I thought...I put a VAR under the seat of her car this morning (have been doing this daily with no luck) and they are together this afternoon at a meeting about 70 miles away. The lucky -if you can call this luck at all- is that they took her-(mine actually) car together to this meeting as his car is still at the office. Since the car is registered and in my name don't I have the right to place a recording device to see who is actually driving it 

So I will capture all their conversation in the car both ways to and from this meeting and who knows what else...if they don't find it and erase. It is deep under the front seat with heavy velcro though...This would be the best evidence yet and would be able to out them to HR and destroy this scumbag.

I am willing to bet she texts me and tells me she is going out to dinner with everyone and goes alone with him. Since I have a GPS tracker on her phone I can find out where they go and park my non-descript work truck with tinted windows in a hidden spot and see when they come out. In a unfamiliar place they will have their guards down and I may see something and snap a few pics. No confrontation though...yet. I need some time to get the money taken care of and go tell the OMW. Then BOOM. Nuclear.

B


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Well I may have my answer sooner than I thought...I put a VAR under the seat of her car this morning (have been doing this daily with no luck) and they are together this afternoon at a meeting about 70 miles away. The lucky -if you can call this luck at all- is that they took her-(mine actually) car together to this meeting as his car is still at the office. Since the car is registered and in my name don't I have the right to place a recording device to see who is actually driving it
> 
> So I will capture all their conversation in the car both ways to and from this meeting and who knows what else...if they don't find it and erase. It is deep under the front seat with heavy velcro though...This would be the best evidence yet and would be able to out them to HR and destroy this scumbag.
> 
> ...


That is a plan NE Bob. And no matter what you see or hear over the next few days stay calm, act cheerful and collect evidence.

You can record no problem in the car.

WHat state do you live in?


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

NE_Bob said:


> Well I may have my answer sooner than I thought...I put a VAR under the seat of her car this morning (have been doing this daily with no luck) and they are together this afternoon at a meeting about 70 miles away. The lucky -if you can call this luck at all- is that they took her-(mine actually) car together to this meeting as his car is still at the office. Since the car is registered and in my name don't I have the right to place a recording device to see who is actually driving it
> 
> So I will capture all their conversation in the car both ways to and from this meeting and who knows what else...if they don't find it and erase. It is deep under the front seat with heavy velcro though...This would be the best evidence yet and would be able to out them to HR and destroy this scumbag.
> 
> ...


Double var the car. Hide 2 vars in the car. If she finds one, you will have the other.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> You really need a PI. For now put a VAR in her car. Let it o or a few days.
> 
> Then listen.


I tried the PI already...came up with nothing. I had her followed for an entire weekend while I was away. Came up with nothing-she didn't go out at all...She tried to get her sister to take the kids, but she couldn't do it. $1600 down the drain.

Hoping VAR comes through today!

B


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> That is a plan NE Bob. And no matter what you see or hear over the next few days stay calm, act cheerful and collect evidence.
> 
> You can record no problem in the car.
> 
> WHat state do you live in?


Plan is to stay calm, get divorce paperwork, get money in order and plan the destruction.

I'd rather not say which state just in case he or she knows about this board...Glad to hear I can record in my own car!

B


----------



## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

If you do go watch them out at dinner, do you have a trusted friend that she doesn't know that you could take with you that could go inside a see them and his they are acting?


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

I am a bit worried about you. It is hard to stay calm as you get more and more information.

If they go out to dinner I would just walk in and sit down with them. The worst is your GPS gets you to a motel.

I would not wait any longer you know she lied to you and you know that was not your sperm on her suit. That is enough.

Something else you need to think about you have had sex with her and so has he. Get checked for and STD.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Damn good plan Bob. 

Go for it.

Edit: Hearing James Bond music in my head. - Catchy tune.


----------



## Jibril (May 23, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Plan is to stay calm, get divorce paperwork, get money in order and plan the destruction.


Aye, a fine plan. But what about the aftermath? What about what happens _after_ the blast?

She will either be so irate she'll want nothing to do with you, or she'll come crawling back to you on her belly like the snake she is, to try and convince you to stay with her. After all, it worked before, right? What's different this time?

I expect the latter scenario, myself. Once she's outed to HR and her lover and their affair are exposed in the workplace, she'll have nowhere else to go but her loving husband's arms. 

Are you committed to dropping this dead weight you call a wife? Truly? I certainly think it would be for the best, and I admire your calculated approach to investigating and exposing. But I also fear that you will let her convince you to falsely reconcile again.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Jibril said:


> Aye, a fine plan. But what about the aftermath? What about what happens _after_ the blast?
> 
> She will either be so irate she'll want nothing to do with you, or she'll come crawling back to you on her belly like the snake she is, to try and convince you to stay with her. After all, it worked before, right? What's different this time?
> 
> ...


Truly, I don't know what I am going to do...I guess it depends on her reaction. I agree dropping her would be the right thing to do at this point.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I would use a lawyer to contact the HR dept, the woman you have talked to obviously wants to ignore and rug sweep, Having a lawyer contact her will show you mean business.
> 
> Have you the money for a PI?


Or ask for the law firm they use, in order for it to be handled on a lawyer to lawyer basis This really does make people sit up and take notice.


----------



## SadandAngry (Aug 24, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Truly, I don't know what I am going to do...I guess it depends on her reaction. I agree dropping her would be the right thing to do at this point.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Well you really ought to give this one a lot of thought. If I were you, I would not even entertain a thought of reconciliation at this point, she is just toxic!


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

mahike said:


> I am a bit worried about you. It is hard to stay calm as you get more and more information.
> 
> If they go out to dinner I would just walk in and sit down with them. The worst is your GPS gets you to a motel.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Yup. For peace of mind if nothing else.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

No matter what you see tonight just stay calm.

If they do go to a restaurant I like the idea of sitting with them but that is up to you.

Call her first to make sure she is ok. 

Then walk in but no matter what do not get angry or confront.

I do not want to have to bail you out of jail Bob! Ya hear me.

HM64


----------



## The bishop (Aug 19, 2012)

You are now doing all the right things.... but this could of been avoided when she first crawled back.... they can not keep working together.... i can't express that enough!!


----------



## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> a conversation between them with her talking me down to him...not good. Making fun of me about taking her away by surprise for her birthday etc. *How she is going to tell me to “get the fxxk out of her house in 5-7 years” (when kids graduate HS)*


Wow! just wow! 

This would be enough for me to kick her out. I wouldn't even want to look her in the eye, let alone have passionate sex. 
How could you, when you already knew about her plans?
Obviously she was putting on a show by crying and crawling back.

Some women appall me with their manipulative/deceitful abilities.
They don't become...they are already born for that!


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

And why are you here exactly? You are the most level-headed, got-it-together, BS we have had here on TAM. Your plan is sound. The nice thing about all the groundwork you've laid is that you don't have to make any snap decisions. You can let her twist in the wind for a bit while you decide on R or D. With this level of betrayal I'd recommend D. You could probably R if she'd had a ONS and felt guilty about it and came to you. You had to investigate, uncover, confront. Then you were and are still being lied to. 

I think after you do all the things you said you would (expose, notify HR, notify OMW, file), you send OM one last email... 

"You win. She's all yours." 

Then go enjoy life as it was meant to be.


----------



## underwater2010 (Jun 27, 2012)

This is the plan, but I want to keep in contact in case we do somehow R-verify

*Good point. I am able to contact the BS and he me. Just in case anything starts up again. He has access to her phone records where my husband has a company phone. Makes me wonder why he has been begging for a private phone those past years.*

I need to have a successful extraction though...do you think the positive test I have now is enough to confront?

*I am sure it will scare the crap out of her, ecspecially if you say you sent it in for DNA test. The look on her face would be priceless.*


If she is not remorseful and begging-yes

*No one can tell you if you need to be done. It is up to you to decide what you want to do. Also, there is no time frame. Six years down the road if you cannot live with it, it is perfectly find to end the marriage.*

Going to get the paperwork today...

*Good for you. Have it set to where all she has to do is sign.*

I want this guy to pay a huge price

*I completely understand. No one on here will judge you for that.*


----------



## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Hey Bob, you're really navigating this nightmare well. I would just also caution you that your WW is going to make some Hail Mary play after you bust her. Suddenly she is going to find her missing "remorse." STAY STRONG. Do NOT be played.

You wrote yourself that she is highly manipulative and skilled at lying, she quote does it for a living. 

What she will not expect is you going on the offensive. Please don't pull your punches -- get the evidence you need and push for D hard.

Sorry is as sorry does. And she sure as hell isn't acting sorry.

On the HR issue, have your lawyer call with the evidence. Also, you want to destroy the OM? Tell WW, OM that you're going to have your lawyer depose their coworkers and HR. People know when people are f*cking around at work. Your lawyer can subpoena anyone he wants to, and offices HATE this sh*t. (Ask me how I know? My husband sues companies for sexual harassment for a living.) You can also have all of their email subpoenaed. The server doesn't die. They may have deleted it, but whatever they sent to each other is on the company server. No problem to prove it. You don't need semen on a suit. It's right there on their servers.

Just THREATEN to do it -- and watch them scurry like ****roaches. 

I'm sorry you're going through this. I truly am. But there is a very good life waiting for you on the other side of this nightmare. BTDT. Came out alive. You will too.


----------



## Malaise (Aug 8, 2012)

chumplady said:


> Hey Bob, you're really navigating this nightmare well. I would just also caution you that your WW is going to make some Hail Mary play after you bust her. Suddenly she is going to find her missing "remorse." STAY STRONG. Do NOT be played.
> 
> You wrote yourself that she is highly manipulative and skilled at lying, she quote does it for a living.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

Please listen to this


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Update: she called me and told me she was going out with the VP and everyone from work near Boston. According to the find iPhone app she was about 50 miles closer to home away when she called me-Lie

She is still at the restaurant as we speak... I did drive through the p. Lot and verified her car was there. Hopefully, the VAR will come through for me on this one...

I spoke with my father and he thinks I should play it cool, get my finances in order then just sit her down and go straight for divorce. Without all the exposure etc, using this as a bargaining chip to get the better deal in the divorce. Expose to HR and whoever after the D is final. My father is very smart and this is essentially what the lawyerI met with told me...what do you think? R seems impossible for me considering everything...

B


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Dude, I think you and your dad have your shat together. Keep the updates coming. You're doing it right.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Holding off on job exposure is fine, but please tell omw right before you serve/file/confront your wife.


----------



## sharkeey (Apr 27, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> I spoke with my father and he thinks I should play it cool, get my finances in order then just sit her down and go straight for divorce. Without all the exposure etc, using this as a bargaining chip to get the better deal in the divorce. Expose to HR and whoever after the D is final. My father is very smart and this is essentially what the lawyerI met with told me..


I thought the same thing. 

NEVER do something that will cause your soon to be ex-spouse to lose their job or you might find yourself paying it back in support.

At least not until the ink is dry on the divorce papers.

Even then if they lose their job they could possibly file for support based on change in circumstances.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

I still think you should walk in the restaurant sit down at their table and have a pleasant conversation on how everything is going to proceed from that very minute.

Simple.

Then go home and get a good nights sleep.

Go see your attorney tomorrow to get everything rolling.

Then when D to your satisfaction Expose.

And if she fights the D then expose the A.

or

You can just wait out the night, check the VAR and see if you have what you want. Backup the VAR and place it back in the car.

Good Luck and Stay Cool.

Your Dad sounds awesome.

HM64


----------



## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Update: she called me and told me she was going out with the VP and everyone from work near Boston. According to the find iPhone app she was about 50 miles closer to home away when she called me-Lie
> 
> She is still at the restaurant as we speak... I did drive through the p. Lot and verified her car was there. Hopefully, the VAR will come through for me on this one...
> 
> ...


Get the evidence. See what's on the VAR. Follow through on the DNA. Can't hurt to have more evidence.

If you are going to divorce, do what is best for you financially and custody-wise.

If you want to save your marriage, you have to blow up the affair.

For now, continue to gather the evidence.


----------



## Onmyway (Apr 25, 2012)

NE_Bob, You are my new hero, I wish that I was this together when I went through my WW's A. That is all.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Did you lurk here prior to making your plan?


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Almostrecovered said:


> Did you lurk here prior to making your plan?


Yes I did...this is where I got the ideas to make my plan...

However, things don't always go as planned. She came home and continued to lie about where she was and who she was with. The VAR has some info with them both *****ing about us BS's, but nothing damning. But certainly more evidence of their "relationship".

She received a text from him late last night thanking her for her "hospitality today and her company this evening". She knew this morning I saw the text so she called me and told me his sent it to her by mistake, it was meant for someone else. So I blew up and said stop the lies. I know you were out with him last night and where etc. She said "nothing's going on". I told her I am filing for divorce and she went ballistic. She said I "make her lie" because of my insecurities. They are just friends etc. Then she told me she hates my guts blah, blah, blah. So I am getting the D paperwork and going through with the filing. I am hoping we can use a mediator to keep the cost down, but not sure yet on this approach. I can't be married to someone that completely disregards my feelings and lies constantly. My only focus now is what is best for my kids, but I feel terrible their whole world is going to collapse.

Not sure of my next move at this point. I need to tell the OMW, but not sure it matters much at this point. R is not going to happen.

B


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

tell OMW because she deserves to know, all the reason you need


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

and your wife's reaction is a whole lotta gaslighting and blameshifting, typical WS response


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Yes I did...this is where I got the ideas to make my plan...
> 
> However, things don't always go as planned. She came home and continued to lie about where she was and who she was with. The VAR has some info with them both *****ing about us BS's, but nothing damning. But certainly more evidence of their "relationship".
> 
> ...


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


----------



## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Ask her to take a poly test to prove once and for all she is not cheating and that once she takes it and passes, you will never question her again.

Make sure you tell her she has nothing to worry about if she is telling the truth, When she denies to take it because she thinks she shouldn't have to, Say "Your right, I already have the DNA evidence from the other man found in your panties to prove it." Then bluff to let her know your lawyer is contacting the HR department to investigate. Put a VAR where she would talk on the phone in private.

Your divorcing anyways, why not give it a shot.


----------



## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

Don't lose your cool, Bob. You still have all the power. She went ballistic about divorce because she is scared sh*tless.

Just file -- and if you tell her work or do not tell her work -- THREATEN it. Use it as leverage. And DO NOT MEDIATE. I say this as the wife of a trial lawyer and someone who got ****ed over in a divorce through mediation. Mediation is fine if with reasonable people who want a similar outcome. Or it works with companies who are forced to the table through arbitration agreements. It is terrible in cases of infidelity.

She wants to game everything to her advantage and you are vulnerable and emotional. You are not on your game -- proof of that was confronting her. Better would've been to let her lie, and divorced her with the element of surprise. Now she's going to do everything in her power to eff you over, and you need to be PREPARED for that. 

Use you power. Do not flinch.


----------



## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Again sorry you are going through this crap. I am sure things are tense at home. How are your kids doing? I would not wait any longer. Expose to that POS OMW. She needs to know. I would also still expose to the family and right now. If you decide to hold off on the work fine. 

I know right now R does not seem likly to you but it may come up. Things are always a little different when kids are involved.

Yes she went ape s**t because you are upsetting her world. She likes unicorns, rainbows, puppy dogs and so forth. Sun Light kills her fun. Affairs are ugly when the world knows.


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> She said I "make her lie" because of my insecurities.


yes, insecurities because she is cheating, lying scumbag having an affair and talking about dumping you when the kids go to school ? How insecure can you be?


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

So what is your plan now?


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Chumplady and AR are right on the money.

Expose now to the OM's wife.
I would also expose to her parents.

You need to keep the pressure up on her even if you are Divorcing her.

And get her the paperwork. Let her know you mean business.

No matter which way you decide to go you need to kill the A!!!

HM64


----------



## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

NE_Bob said:


> My only focus now is what is best for my kids, but I feel terrible their whole world is going to collapse.
> B


I'm sorry you are going through this. You have a lot on your plate. At some point, I recommend reading "Helping Kids Cope with Divorce the Sandcastles Way". It is very helpful in regard to the kids. I have three, two of which are the same ages as yours.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NE_Bob said:


> *Yes, full exposure should have been on my list as well. Her parents and sister will be the first calls I make. Next her best friend (who I think knows) as well as mutual friends of ours.*


You expose to anyone whose respect she craves. And you do it all at one time - within an hour or so. As soon as one person calls her, she may start trying to out-dial you to spin her crap on them - you hit her, it's always been bad, this guy is just helping her, you have mental problems. They usually believe the first person to tell their side, so get to them all fast.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NE_Bob said:


> Since I have a GPS tracker on her phone I can find out where they go and park my non-descript work truck with tinted windows in a hidden spot and see when they come out. In a unfamiliar place they will have their guards down and I may see something and snap a few pics. No confrontation though...yet. I need some time to get the money taken care of and go tell the OMW. Then BOOM. Nuclear.
> 
> B


 Haven't caught up yet, but I hope you took pictures for the lawyer.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So caught up. I'm sorry it turned out the way it did. You still need to expose because, either way, she is going to tell everyone that it's ALL YOUR FAULT. Tell them the truth, first. 

You could still R; remember that she's a drug addict at this point, and getting her fix of OM will make her lie, cheat, and steal to keep it. IF you can get her away from him, it's possible she'll return to the person she used to be and be horrified at herself.

So stick to your plan. Did I see on your plan that the kids stay at the house, with YOU? Insist on it.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

BOB, YOU ARE STILL IN THE DRIVERS SEAT !!! I know your anger got the best of you that time, but you are STILL holding all the cards. Deleted txts can be gotten, let her know that your lawyer is going after them. Tell her she won't have to wait for the kids to leave home now, only she is leaving your house or your lawyer is going after the company. And tell her you hate the lying, cheating POS, that calls herself an honorable wife and mother, that comes home to her husband and kids after having sex in the office, like nothing is wrong.

All you need to do now is just stay calm and bombard her a** with the evidence. You don't need anymore.

iphone txts are stored, you know that from reading here, and there are tools to extract them.


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

OldWolf57 said:


> BOB, YOU ARE STILL IN THE DRIVERS SEAT !!! I know your anger got the best of you that time, but you are STILL holding all the cards. Deleted txts can be gotten, let her know that your lawyer is going after them. Tell her she won't have to wait for the kids to leave home now, only she is leaving your house or your lawyer is going after the company. And tell her you hate the lying, cheating POS, that calls herself an honorable wife and mother, that comes home to her husband and kids after having sex in the office, like nothing is wrong.
> 
> *All you need to do now is just stay calm and bombard her a** with the evidence. You don't need anymore.*
> 
> iphone txts are stored, you know that from reading here, and there are tools to extract them.


:iagree:


----------



## In_The_Wind (Feb 17, 2012)

Keep up the good work Bob


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

How's it going NE_Bob? Keep talking... it helps.


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Bob

Just let us know you and your kids are ok.

HM64


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

*Update*
First, I want to Thank You all so much for your help. The kids and I are just fine at this point. I can't even believe how different things have turned out from my plans...
*Friday-*I came home from work a bit late and she was already home laying in bed reading. She was not speaking to me so I decided to get dressed up nice and get out of the house. As I walked out she said "I'm going out tomorrow night" I just said "fine" and walked out the door. I went out to a pub and had dinner at the bar watching a game. Later on I went to meet some friends at another bar and ended up coming home at 1:00am. Funny thing is she was up getting a drink of water when I came in. (never happens) Didn't say a word just went to bed in the spare room.
*Saturday-* took my son to the Y and we spent the day out until late in the afternoon. She asked me when I got home if I wanted her to make dinner before she went out. I said yes assuming it was just for the kids. She ended up grilling shrimp and making me a gourmet double cheeseburger-WTF! She goes out to dinner with her best friend and comes home around 10:15pm. Not sure what her friend said but then Sunday...
*Sunday-*AM take my daughter to Sunday school and she asked me to go for a long walk while the class was in session. We talked about financial issues and the pending divorce. I basically stayed totally neutral and emotionless while she kept having to stop to sit down and cry on the sidewalk. I did not comfort her at all-cold as ice. Since the kids were starting to ask so many questions we both decided to take them out to a local festival and spend the day as a family. We ended up talking throughout the day and ended up at the local beach since it was so nice out. Funny thing is there was a wedding just starting up behind us as we were sitting there. As soon as they started playing the music the tears started rolling for both of us...She walked away down the beach alone and I stayed with the kids. When she came back we left and she seemed to have a really good attitude towards me but I stayed pretty cold. She makes a big fancy dinner and is totally catering to me. My feet were itchy as I was laying on the couch and she actually went and got lotion and rubbed my feet and put powder on them-never in 18 years-WTF It is obvious at this point I have the power now that's for sure... 
So the kids go to bed early and we sat on the couch and talked light conversation and watched a show we both like. She asked me if I would go upstairs with her to watch another episode on the bed with her. Well you know what happens next. After a very emotional steamy sex session as we were laying together after I laid down my conditons for any possible reconcilliation. 1. She has two weeks to find another job in the company or she needs to resign at the end of this period (he is off for two weeks for a medical issue). 2. She is to have no contact with this guy ever again and she needs to write him a no contact letter. 3. Transparancy of all emails, phones, texts. etc 4. Marriage counseling to deal with this issue as well as any other issues from over the years. She agrees immediately to all my conditions.
*Monday* she comes home from work and we actually have a great passionate kissing session in the kitchen. I can feel her deep love for me and I do still love her. She has appologized many times for the fights, what she said etc. She is surely showing great remorse at this point. Well she comes and lays on me on the couch and we are just holding each other and cuddling. One thing leads to another and we are back upstairs going it it again with a vengence. This must be hysterical bonding??? 
She is very concerned about quitting her job in such a way to be burning bridges, losing references etc, but she will do it she says. However, it is going to be very difficult, but I reassured her our marriage is more important than any job and she can come work in sales for my company and end up making more money and having a much better family friendly schedule. So that is where I am at now. I am going to give her a list of my conditions printed out so there are no questions or lack of clarity. 
The only problem I have is she still has not admitted to anything other than the relationship being innapproriate. She swears up and down it never went physical and this is why she feels it was not cheating. I told her at a minimum she betrayed me and had an emotional affair. The DNA was inconclusive and there is a long shot that the stain somehow came from me, but in my gut I know what happened. I feel like we will have to work on this with the councelor and get her to face what she did. My kids are too important for me to not at least give R a shot. She is more than willing to put in the work to make things right-she says. I told her that I am willing to give it a shot, but there are no guarantees that it will work and she understands this. So as of right now I put the divorce on hold and we are going to try to R. If she changes her mind on the job thing I will have to file. I absolutely cannot live in limbo another day and she knows this. Job be damned.

That's my story (so far) and I'm stickin' to it!

Bob

PS. I do feel like the weight of the world has been lifted. Just having it all out there and making plans one way or another has made me the happiest I have been since this whole ordeal started. Also, I realized I am quite the hot commodity from going out. I am quite a good looking guy in great shape and I could have gone home with an incredibly hot 26y/o friend of a friend if I wanted to. The chemistry was just over the top. But I would never go there while married, but divorced...look out!...did I say how hot she was-LOL


----------



## Unsure in Seattle (Sep 6, 2011)

Sounds good, but remain vigilant, at least for now. Trust but verify; protect yourself and the kids. Best of luck to you and your family...


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Oh.my.God.

Wow!

I am SO proud of you! 

Don't worry too much about the admitting thing just yet. Down the road, it will be an issue if she won't admit, as then it will be her leading a separate life from you, and you'll have to deal with it somehow. Right now, just focus on what needs to get done.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

I am in a trust but verify mode now... I am so tired of checking up on her at this point though. I am trying to not obsess about things and just see where it all goes...
Hoping for the best and preparing for the worst...it's all I can do for now. We will need to deal with the rest in therapy and hopefully things will keep getting better.

B


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Very Cool Bob.

I am happy for both of you. Enjoy the HB. Take a little break right now, enjoy the moment and sleep with one eye open....

Get into therapy and work out those issues (especially her issues).

And make sure you get the truth so all issues are on the table. You have to assure it is not a deal breaker to get the truth.

Lie a little. Because she has lied to you a lot.

Good Luck and Stay in Touch!!!

HM64


----------



## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

First off, good for you!!

Now back to business. Ask her to submit a polygraph. Tell her you want to believe her and that this will help. Then give her one more chance to come clean. 

If she fails the poly then you need to decide what to do at that point. You've already decided on R but you can use any poly failure as a bargaining point for... somethingorother.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I second the poly. If she is really wnting to R, then she should have no problem with it.


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

I HATE YOUR GUTS !!!

I want you to remember these words. They didn't just drop out of her mouth.

You are being played until she can find herself om.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Geez OldWolf57, what a stick in the mud. I mean this WW is willing to quit her job and don't you think its worth throwing her a bone.

Bob has the smarts to trust but verify, at least give him that. 

Sure we all can agree that she's pulling the Bill Cliton card with regards to sexual relations but as long as his old lady does the heavy lifting to fix this crap, lets give Bob a break. He just might have saved his marriage, now lets she if his wife can fix it!


----------



## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

She still have to come clean. Fully.
Tell her to grab a calendar (2011, 2012) and whatever she needs to help her memory in order to write down a timeline of transgressions of the marital boundaries; no matter how "light" they seem (From flirting ,exchanging numnbers, kisses, make out, BJs, whatever).
When, who, what, where, how. Just facts.
Later she can start figuring how the hell she started this in her head.
She also has to disclose the people who knew (specially who enabled, ecouraged or gave alibis). Any toxic friendship is gone.


----------



## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Bob - If some other fellow posted this, I would say she is playing you. But you sir, see to have a level head. Even with all the sex, I know that little voice in your head will keep you focused.

Don;t let the job situation drag on more than a week. Just a guess, but if she is not able to pull the trigger by then, you know something is amiss. It is not that hard to write a letter of resignation where you do not burn bridges.

also, I third the notion of the poly. You are calling the shots now. If you wait to ask for it, even a month later, it will seem vindictive. NOW is the time to insist on it as a condition for R.

Blessings to you brother. I hope this works out.


----------



## Doc Who (Sep 9, 2012)

Yes, and I second Acabado's call for a timeline. Critical that she owns her actions.


----------



## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

i know I could have gotten throw my crap if it wasn't for my wife owning she adultory, and one of many things she did was give me a timeline...but in my case i would have not been able to use a monthly calender. Do they even have like centenial calender....something with just the years and months only.

A- that was a great idea BTW ...with regards to the calender.


----------



## Loveandpizza (Sep 8, 2012)

She is probably uses sex as a control mechanism. She feels like she is losing control of you so she is using it to control you. You need to gather evidence to use in court and serve papers. Do not expose to HR, if you get her fired you could have to pay her more support. Also if she quits work and you Divorce later she will rake more out of you since she isnt working. You are being played.


----------



## TroubledInMI (Sep 4, 2012)

I second (or third/fourth) the notion that you should be wary of this "new and improved W". Time for hyper vigilance. Enjoy the sex, by all means, but I would go uberBond to ensure WW and OM aren't just "taking a break" and resume later. That's *exactly* what my STBXW did.


----------



## AlphaHalf (Aug 5, 2012)

Your rugsweeping the issue. If what she says is true then have her take a poly test. Also both of you need to take a STD test considering you don't know the truth. A half a$$ed job brings half a$$ed results.

NO more sex.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

Just one word, are you listening? POLYGRAPH.

The more hard ass alpha you are, the more she's attracted to you. Don't reveal your VAR or any other tricks, except the semen stain. Tell her you know it didn't come from you and you want to know who or whom jizzed her suit.

I personally doubt this was your wife's first rodeo. Bring that up in the poly.


----------



## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Okay, here's the plan:

*Verify - verify - verify* trust


----------



## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> So she sexed you a little bit and you totally forgot about her plan to kick you out in 5-7 years? Try the PI route when she is on business trips or out with this guy.
> 
> Don't do the same mistake again. It looks like she knows all your methods. this woman is an accomplished cheater.


My post earlier in your thread. keep your eyes wide open. Sex seems to affect your decision making capabilities. She might be genuine but this was something you faced earlier.


----------



## Rags (Aug 2, 2010)

OldWolf57 said:


> I HATE YOUR GUTS !!!
> 
> I want you to remember these words. They didn't just drop out of her mouth.


True. I'm assuming she was in fog though, so could have said anything, as her cake was being taken away.

Bob's call - he's done a fantastic job so far - good luck to him.


----------



## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

The first time she said she was going to drop you you in 5 to 7 years, then sexed you up and you let it go.

Now you have a mountain of evidence that this has gone physical, she sexed you up again and....

Please..I know you love your wife so much. But there is no denying her pattern here.

You know deep down that semen is not yours. Please do not get played again.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I guess I'm starting to agree. 

Tell her nothing without the polygraph. If she's sincere, she won't mind.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

She is leaving the job in two weeks. (keep in mind she is making $130k+/yr-ouch) She agrees to no contact. She is extremely remorseful and submissive to me now. She agrees to complete transparency. She agrees to counseling. She wants our marriage. She went and booked us a weekend away alone at a resort. She is uber affectionate, loving, and deeply passionate towards me. Wife of the year now...or should I say the wife she used to be is back now...However, I will verify, verify, verify. 

I have decided against the polygraph based on a very trusted friends advice. He tells me no good can come out of it and I see his points. If she passes I will always wonder if she just beat the machine. If she fails she still could be innocent and just fail due to the inaccuracy, nerves etc. Just thinking about her going in and being hooked up with electrodes really troubles me. I have to just assume that it did happen and she will need to face herself and what she did. We will work through things in the counseling and I will push hard for her to come clean so we can move forward. There will be no rug sweeping of this issue.I found a therapist that specializes in infidelity, divorce, and restoration of marriages and we will be setting up an appointment when she is done with the job in two weeks.

This is where I am at now. If you asked me last week I would never have believed it would have gone this way. I do know my wife has some mental issues she needs to work on and I am insisting she goes to IC. As far as the "kick him the f out of the house in 5-7 years" comment. Keep in mind this was said to the AP and she was saying many things that were far from the truth likely to justify her actions to him. She has never spoken ill of me to anyone else and I have hundreds of hours of conversations from the VAR. I will not rug sweep this either as I have a list of things we will need to work through in therapy.

I have to say I am the happiest I have been in about a year and she seems really happy too. So for our family's sake we are going to do the hard thing and go 100% for R at this point. I appreciate everyone's input and will keep posting as things progress. Of course things may change, but for now 

B


----------



## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

NE_Bob said:


> She is leaving the job in two weeks. (keep in mind she is making $130k+/yr-ouch) She agrees to no contact. She is extremely remorseful and submissive to me now. She agrees to complete transparency. She agrees to counseling. She wants our marriage. She went and booked us a weekend away alone at a resort. She is uber affectionate, loving, and deeply passionate towards me. Wife of the year now...or should I say the wife she used to be is back now...However, I will verify, verify, verify.
> 
> I have decided against the polygraph based on a very trusted friends advice. He tells me no good can come out of it and I see his points. If she passes I will always wonder if she just beat the machine. If she fails she still could be innocent and just fail due to the inaccuracy, nerves etc. Just thinking about her going in and being hooked up with electrodes really troubles me. I have to just assume that it did happen and she will need to face herself and what she did. We will work through things in the counseling and I will push hard for her to come clean so we can move forward. There will be no rug sweeping of this issue.I found a therapist that specializes in infidelity, divorce, and restoration of marriages and we will be setting up an appointment when she is done with the job in two weeks.
> 
> ...


Fair enough.You don't need anyone´s permission to reconcile.
I wish you the best. I really do..

but just in case, you know where to find us


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Good Luck NE Bob.

Do not rug sweep!!!


----------



## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> ...
> 
> *I have decided against the polygraph based on a very trusted friends advice*. He tells me no good can come out of it and I see his points. If she passes I will always wonder if she just beat the machine. If she fails she still could be innocent and just fail due to the inaccuracy, nerves etc. ...
> 
> B


Fair enough, if it were me I think I'd consider _asking_ if she'd consent to one and gauge her reaction. If she was unequivocal in agreeing that says something, if she's reluctant I'd ask why and let it drop.


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

If it hasn't already been recommended, you need to pick up a copy of Married Man Sex Life Primer off Amazon. It's actually about how to project behaviors that women find attractive over the long haul. Makes it less likely she'll fall for some other guy, because she'll be too busy begging you for sex.


----------



## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

"I have decided against the polygraph based on a very trusted friends advice"

Question: How close are your friend and your wife?


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

kenmoore14217 said:


> "I have decided against the polygraph based on a very trusted friends advice"
> 
> Question: How close are your friend and your wife?


Not close at all. He is my very good friend from college. He has been through divorce of his parents when he was around my kids ages and had very good insight as to the damages this causes in children and families. That said, he was very supportive of me as well as our marriage and urged me to take things slow and work through the issue in counseling with a neutral third party. He told me to assume it was physical and work to recover from there. She will need to own it at some point...

Another good friend who went through the same thing years ago and ended up D urged me to do everything I can to try to work things out. He wishes he did as the aftermath of D is still haunting him to this day (11 years later)even though his kids are in their 20's now and he is re-married. He is a member at a country club and he told me I would not believe how many men I know have been through this and come out with a stronger and healthier marriage after.

So I am all in on R, but there will be no rug sweeping here. I will not rest until she owns her ****. And I will verify everything. Our communication has been the best it has ever been and we are having many heartfelt conversations. I am now Alpha for sure and she is going to have to work to keep me. She is as of now...

B


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Machiavelli said:


> If it hasn't already been recommended, you need to pick up a copy of Married Man Sex Life Primer off Amazon. It's actually about how to project behaviors that women find attractive over the long haul. Makes it less likely she'll fall for some other guy, because she'll be too busy begging you for sex.


Read this and already have run the MAP. Working good so far...

Also read "Not just friends" and both "women's infidelity" books. I plan on giving them to my wife to read...

B


----------



## Machiavelli (Feb 25, 2012)

NE_Bob said:


> Read this and already have run the MAP. Working good so far...
> 
> Also read "Not just friends" and both "women's infidelity" books. I plan on giving them to my wife to read...
> 
> B


Yeah, but keep MMSL to yourself.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This is long but it may help. Print it off and read it with her. Lord I wish it were possible to get other folks to listen to the advice and be tough about it. Families could be saved , or people could move on with so much less hurt if they would follow your course. So glad you got helpful advice from TAM


Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran (Jan 17, 2012)

I am a pessimist may be because i got burned in R once.

Trust only what you can verify. Dont believe what she says now take everything with a grain of salt. She may be in damage control as she realized you are drifting away from her.

Ask her to do the polygraph and see her reaction, dont allow her to blindside you again with sex and loose talks.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

you can link it you know chap (link wuill go directly to it)-
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430754


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> you can link it you know chap (link wuill go directly to it)-
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430754


That's cool, I should have known that.


----------



## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

heck put it in your signature since you use it so often


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

Short update as I don't have much time...things have been much better. She apologized for lying to me about going out with him/hiding things etc. Still insists they are just friends and I just don't get that they are just co-workers out for a dinner etc. Lots of emotion and crying etc. We are in marriage counseling and trying to work through this. so far so good, but she has not put in her notice at work yet due to a huge commission check if she closes out October ($14k+). The plan was to quit after the check is received, but the MC does not want us to make any rash decisions until we explore the issues with her.
Things between us could not be better actually. She has been extremely loving and considerate and we are communicating better than ever in our marriage. She has been attentive, affectionate, and transparent with all her communications. However, in my gut I still feel like I am not getting the full story. I still think it is at least a EA due to the personal nature of their conversations, but despite all the evidence I collected I still really have no proof of anything. The DNA test proved to be inconclusive. Out of thousands of texts I only have the one "miss you" text that is suspicious. The VAR only produced one personal conversation out of hundreds of hours of tape and this was after we had a huge fight and I left her. The VAR from the night out contained almost all work talk. Confusing. If they were having a torrid affair wouldn't there be something I could point to and say "aha!" ? Keyloggers on phone and computer-nothing
I do not want to rug-sweep this and my thoughts now are to have her go for a poly since she insists that nothing happened. If she is still lying at that point I will go for D. I am going to raise this in our next MC session. She told me on DD that she would take a lie detector to prove she did not cheat on me. I am going to take her up on this and see her reaction. The only reservation I have is the accuracy of those things...
In my mind, the worst thing for me is to have her keep working with this guy and not know. I will not do this. If she confesses before the poly, I might still go for R, but the lies would be really hard to get past at this point.
So this is where we are at. Fire away!

B


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

If it is going to help you heal and she offered go for it with the polygraph. I'll tell you though that "gut" feeling is usually spot on. This is a tough one though because it sounds like there is real r here.


----------



## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

NE, if the rolls were reversed and it was you doing what your wife did, what possible reason would you have for not telling your wife what you were doing? Really think about that one please.


----------



## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

See how willing she is to take that polygraph. Go through with it. She may blink at the last minute and back down. If she does go through with it, you have another reason to support her story of no infidelity.

I note she's in sales. And with a $14K cheque coming, she probably good at it. I would think that she's good at reading and handling people and situations.


----------



## giashasa2012 (Aug 16, 2012)

I would follow aug's advice .


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NE_Bob said:


> She told me on DD that she would take a lie detector to prove she did not cheat on me. I am going to take her up on this and see her reaction. The only reservation I have is the accuracy of those things...
> In my mind, the worst thing for me is to have her keep working with this guy and not know. I will not do this. If she confesses before the poly, I might still go for R, but the lies would be really hard to get past at this point.


Arranging a polygraph works on so many levels that it's not even that important what her answers are. It shows her you are not beta and WILL risk angering her to get what you need. It allows you to ask her point-blank questions (did you kiss him, etc.) about OM. It allows you to watch and see if she squirms AHEAD of it, meaning there's more you don't know (may want to add some last-minute questions to the poly if you see this). It allows her to come clean so you can move forward in total honesty. It gives her the chance to come clean BEFORE the test (but don't cancel the appointment!) so you can feel like it's a better truth. And it levels the relationship back to you having more say, as it should be. And just maybe the humiliation will teach her to NEVER EVER 'hide' things from you again, even if it just a 'just friends' situation.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

aug said:


> See how willing she is to take that polygraph. Go through with it. She may blink at the last minute and back down. If she does go through with it, you have another reason to support her story of no infidelity.
> 
> I note she's in sales. And with a $14K cheque coming, she probably good at it. I would think that she's good at reading and handling people and situations.


This is what I plan to bring up in counseling on Wednesday to gauge her reaction. It would actually be a huge relief to me if she goes through with it and passes though. But must admit I am concerned with if she is truly innocent that she may resent me big time for making her take it...The other side of this is the inaccuracy of the testing could make it dicey at best. If she flunks but still insists she is innocent for example. Nothing is 100% in other words...

She is actually in sales management now, but yes she is very good at reading and handling people including me I presume...

But right now she is doing all the right things for me and our marriage and that is really good for me so far. She has been texting and calling me throughout the workdays and leaving right after 5:00 to come home to cook dinner and spending quality time together walking, talking etc. And yes our sex life has been great too! I feel we have really been able to bond together well with intimacy and romance as well...

B


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NE_Bob said:


> I am concerned with if she is truly innocent that she may resent me big time for making her take it...


Why do you do this?

SHE HURT YOU. It doesn't matter how far she went, what her intentions were, none of that matters. What matters is that SHE HURT HER HUSBAND.

And HER HUSBAND needs this to help him stop hurting. If she can't wrap her head around that then she is lying to you and staying together for convenience.


----------



## NE_Bob (Aug 20, 2012)

I received this email from Dr Bob Huizenga that sums up how things have been going as of late...She bats 1000 on this "test". Thought this insight may help others starting or continuing R:

*Dramatic Ways to Know if He/She is REALLY Changing*

Every relationship hits a snag, or worse, a major crisis (such as infidelity), that demands significant change if the relationship
is to survive.

So...there are promises to change and the two of you embark upon a new path. You watch carefully.

"Can I trust this change? Is it permanent? temporary? How long will it last? Is he/she REALLY changing?"

Good questions. Here are 16 ways to know if the change is going to last:

1. You notice opposite behaviors and nonverbal communication. Passivity becomes activity. Recklessness transforms into thoughtfulness. Aloofness turns into engagement.

Yes

2. You find yourself surprised. "Hmmmm, this hasn't happened before, but is really nice! I wonder where this came from? But, I will take it!"

Yup!

3. He/she expresses more curiosity about you, about him/her self and others. He/she observes more closely what happens in relationships, without criticism or defensiveness.

Yes

4. You feel that somehow there has been a shifting of gears. There is a different rhythm or flow in the relationship. Much less effort. Much less tension.

Yes

5. You find yourself noticing how differently he/she talks. The words seem different. The emotional tone of the words seem different.

Yes

6. The negative times, where you felt very stuck, helpless and hopeless, are less intense, happen less often and you seem to have more effective ways to move out of those times more quickly.

Yes

7. Your gut (intuition) tells you that this is ok. You begin to trust that part of you more implicitly. A part of you is clapping and cheering inside!

Yes

8. He/she seems to have more direction and purpose. Less drifting. He/she seems to be driven more by internal desires and wishes rather than reacting to people or external circumstances. He/she takes up interesting hobbies or finds more enthusiasm for career.

Yes

9. The changes seem to be more consistent and carry over for a longer period of time. More stability. Fewer swings. You seem more consistently on the right path.

Yes

10. More concern is expressed for family, children and close friends.

Yes

11. Words such as: "I promise. I'll try. Or, I'm going to..." are NOT in his/her vocabulary.

Yes-actions are there not words!

12. Moments of effusive crying, tear letting and chest beating are gone. Apologies are past and there is a sense of working right here right now to create what we want down the line.

Yes

13. You hear no blaming of others. He/she does NOT make others responsible for his/her actions. You sense that he/she is intent upon responsibly creating his/her world.

Yes

14. There is good eye contact.

Absolutely

15. He/she is taking great steps toward self care both physically, emotionally and spiritually. He/she can state what he/she needs and negotiate with you to get those needs met. At the same time, your personal needs are considered.

Yes

16. You worry much less about what will happen next.

Yes!


So this is where we are at...MC tomorrow again.

B


----------



## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Well Bob,

Good questions and better answers.

Be vigilant but keep moving forward.

Trust but verify.

HM64


----------



## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Bob, like your friend said " assume it was physical " and recover from there.
Some ppl makes a big mistake, realize it, and promise themselves that they will never do that again.

You know what?? They DON'T. 
They find themselves so guilt ridden, they never come close again. This may be her.
Accept that this is something that she deeply regrets, and will take it to her grave to keep from reliving it and from hurting you to hear it.
You said in your gut, you know. 
Can you just accept that, and rebuild from where you are now.

It sounds like she is doing all she can, and sincerely.
And you seem to like the way your marriage is rebuilding.

Advice; This is now a new marriage, so go in like that. Just use the tools, and knowledge you learned getting to this new one, to keep it strong and fresh.


----------



## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Sounds good ne bob
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------

