# Anyone stay together even after getting caught?



## anglo (Jun 14, 2018)

Would be interested to hear from people especially men, who carried on with their marriage after discovering their wife's affair. What was it like? Was she remorseful did she change her behavior. What help did you get etc. I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces.


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## Sparta (Sep 4, 2014)

Sorry i see that you did already...


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@anglo said: "I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces"

Because people that have self esteem, that value themselves, have strong character, and moral values, do not put with cheating, dubious, morally flawed partners, only weak, cowards, and doormats that even though they cannot look themselves in the mirror they still stay, because they don't have the balls and fortitude to get out of their horrible relationships, and most of the time when there are children they use the children as an excuse not to leave their ****ty relationship. 

You seem to fall in one of the above categories.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

anglo said:


> Would be interested to hear from people especially men, who carried on with their marriage after discovering their wife's affair. What was it like? Was she remorseful did she change her behavior. What help did you get etc. I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces.


Overwhelmingly most do but there are so many factors, variables, etc. I remember talking to my counselor last year and one of my concerns is that you hear so much of divorce and once you hear about couples going through issues, then they can't reconcile and eventually divorce, where are the stories that result in couples making up, reconciling, working through things, etc.

Her response was that many couples do all those things but chances are you never hear about them. Their issues are kept closed and worked through between the couples and in a lot of those cases, no even knew the couple had issues, mainly because they are still together. 

What I'm trying to say is that you couple that with the people that we do know, that stay after finding out about affairs and it's quite a few people from what I can imagine. Now the quality of life or the circumstances, that will differ greatly. Since this is a board where people come with problems, we hear about a lot of the instances that don't work out. I (tried) to say with a cheater and it didn't work out. I did many things wrong, in terms of strategy but what many would consider right from a spiritual or unconditional love standpoint. Problem is, in these situations, the cheater is a completely new person or in some cases, it's who they always were but that component of them is awakened or live now. My STBXW (Divorce Final on Monday) shared many of my same values in life. Family, Church, Kids ... just trying to live a good wholesome life. With her, there was a cocktail of issues. She may have been this person all along. She was very active before we started dating, from a young age. She could of cheated on me several times, at least emotionally but I can only confirm for sure 2009 and 2017, with the same guy, both times becoming completely obsessed and infatuated with him.

I went full force with trying to be Super-Husband right after. The pick-me-dance as it's called. I found out so many things in retrospect but the actual reconciliation from when I found out in June of last year, lasted about a week, 2 at the most, then a false couple of weeks after that and then she felt she would be better off alone but it wasn't the guy, no it had nothing to do with him. Once she hit that point, she had very little remorse and more of a woe is me, I'm just not happy and this is just not working for her feeling (after 17 years, a new house and 2 kids together). Then her words and feelings became more bold, the things she said to me that stated she didn't want to be with me anymore, the calls for it not working but it still had nothing to do with him according to her. I found out everything in December, she never gave him up, it just got deeper in deeper involved, infatuated and in her mind (love) as time went on. I busted it open to his wife in December but after a few weeks they found a way again and his wife keeps believing him that he is done.

Long story short, I gave everything I had to try to save the marriage but my STBXW was NOT remorseful, she didn't want to be married (to me) anymore and she wanted out! My blunders were continuing to think I could win her over with time, resolve and love. As I have learned now, what should be seen as good and of great compassion, is seen as the opposite from the woman's side when they are in the fantasy land of the affair. They see a weak man, someone that doesn't hold a candle to the AP, even if the AP is cheating on his wife, doesn't matter. He was meant to be with her, his wife is just collateral damage. 

In order for a true reconcile to work, Wayward Spouse has to;
- break all contact with AP, no ifs ands or buts about it, this is not just a respect thing but a chemical thing. As long as they are in contact with AP, the limerance is still working and they won't break free from the drug or feel good chemicals of the affair;
- be completely remorseful
- completely transparent, you must have all logins to all accounts, tech devices, etc
- be accountable for whereabouts for the foreseeable future
- open and willing to do counseling, activities to forming the new marriage that will have to be formed after the affair;
- be open to questions from betrayed spouse and NOT have the attitude of just moving on, that's what is called rug sweeping;

Even when all of the points above are followed it's still a tough road ahead and not a guarantee reconciliation will work but if the points are not followed, it's a guarantee that things will NOT work in once sense or the other.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Some people do, when the wayward is expressing true remorse, and the betrayed has a good reason to stay. They would have to to want to eat that **** sandwich.

However, true remorse is pretty rare, especially in the first few weeks following discovery.

Sometimes there is true remorse, but the betrayed just simply has no interest in reconciling.

You would do well to look at your situation in particular rather than what others have done. There are just simply too many variables, from couple to couple, to try and make a complete comparison.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

For me.. It comes down to whether or not you are the type of person who can forgive AND forget. Because if you cant forget I don't know how you can move forward in life without some major changes.

For example;
- Wife goes out with friends, shes later than normal
- You call her or text her for something, and there is no response for 20, 30, 40 minutes.....
- Is your mind going to wonder if she is with someone?

If so... I couldn't life my life constantly wondering whats happening


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Ok, now I remember you had the situation where you Catfished your own wife. Hmm, this is something that is its completely own animal I'm afraid. I think it would be best if you sought individual counseling.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

stillfightingforus.....That was awesome. You have come along way. I think you nailed all the points that many of us think.

But I also think that our environments also shape the path to D or R respectively. I in my household am not the sole or majority bread winner. I also work long distance and long hours away from our community and home. Cultural aspects/differences are in play as well. Ultimately, my view is if one truly believes in the sanctity of marriage, and the vows were broken. Then the covenant between the two is broken and D is inevitable. Actions and consequences....

I also think that if a WS is truly remorseful and really does love their injured partner, they must be willing to lose the family in order to save it. I would venture to hope that rebuilding a new contract relationship is better. When respect and mutual understanding along with true love are in play. This is superior than to try and patch together the broken marriage and hurt spouse that is left in infidelities wake.

In my experience, I was able to catch on to what was happening long before anything truly disastrous happened. This all just happened back in Oct. of last year...
The sad part is now while we are working on our relationship with fervor, I am now always on guard and walls are put up. In essence, the innocence is gone. Also, with all that was said and done, I lost the beauty of my marriage and the pillar I placed it upon. It now resides with everything else and gets about the same consideration as joining a sports league, or planning a vacation. It's just not something that I wear proudly upon my chest anymore. It's more of a chore, raising children and maintaining a household as time goes on. I can easily say, that if in 6 years (Son turns 18)...If I don't really feel good about the situation, I can easily walk away and do something else. 

So, I can totally see how a BS can merit the idea of D way before the path of R. There is just too much time, money and sanity involved for R to happen, that it is way easier to divorce and start new with a pair of fresh eyes and heart.

Also, a lot of states do not recognize infidelity and the marriage contract is not weighed upon. Basically, there is no remedy for the BS or partner. No fault divorce and 50/50 split is practical in some regards. But is a disaster to the essence of marriage. But then again, marriage is defined differently each political voting season anyway.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Steve2.0 said:


> For me.. It comes down to whether or not you are the type of person who can forgive AND forget. Because if you cant forget I don't know how you can move forward in life without some major changes.
> 
> For example;
> - Wife goes out with friends, shes later than normal
> ...


If there never was an affair such behavior will always still bring about these thoughts.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Studies claim about 30-35% or couples stay married after cheating is caught. They also claim only 20% of cheaters get caught. Supposedly, 45% stay together if the husband is the one that gets caught. It looks to me like that means only about 15% stay together if the wife gets caught. If you can’t trust your wife to be faithful, you can’t trust her to only have your children.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

People stay in so so marriages even when there were no affairs.
So it is no surprise that people stay married after an affair with
a so so recovery.

It is not my spouse cheated on me so I must divorce them.

The decision to stay married or to divorce after an affair is based
not just that my spouse had sex with their AP.

What I have seen hurt recovery the most is when the WW trickle
truths, refuses to be honest, say's I don't remember, refuses to
talk about the affair, refuses to answer her BH's questions.

The trust never gets fully repaired. The worry and paranoia will
always reappear. Seeking answers the BH will never be able to
process the affair so he will never be able to stop thinking about it.
Even thirty five years later.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

anglo said:


> Would be interested to hear from people especially men, who carried on with their marriage after discovering their wife's affair. What was it like? Was she remorseful did she change her behavior. What help did you get etc. I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces.


Yes, It was good at first but horrific as time went on.
No, she seemed remorseful but it was a lie.
I stayed 16 more years only to find she was cheating with many guys over those years.
I finally got wise and filed. 
Good Lord my life got better. A cheating wife (PA) is way to much for a man to live with, you'll see.
My advice.....File, File Now!


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

In my experience with our clients, a lot of the women filing for divorce because their husband cheated, more times than not there were multiple instances of adultery over a long period and she finally got fed up with forgiving him over and over and called it quits. As for men, far more times than not, they file on the very first instance of adultery by their wives. As a divorce attorney I can say that clients tend to treat you as a de facto counselor. They confide in you. These men almost always tell me that their wife cheating on them has robbed them of their manhood and self-respect as a man. That the only way they can get it back is to divorce her, otherwise they become a chump/cuckold. A male client filing for divorce after tolerating multiple instances of adultery by their wives is a very rare thing in my business.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Not a lot of marriages reconcile well after cheating. Some do but you need a very remorseful spouse -- and years of work and healing -- for that to happen. 

I believed my ex-H's lies the first time. I didn't the second time. Because of all I went through in those years I'm not pro-R.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think, especially when the wife cheats, there is no recovery. Not really.

I'd advise divorce. If, after a long time, the man still wants her, they can start all over.

I dont really know of any WW/BH couple I'd actually call recovered. Of course, if they exist, I wouldnt know because they would NOT still be on forums rehashing and tending their garments.

That's pretty much a neon sign they are still affair-driven.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

When the wife shows true remorse then this forum supports R. Unfortunately that is a rare thing.

This forum does nearly universally recommend filing for divorce even if the goal is to save the marriage. This is to shock the cheater. Cheaters are a lot like addicts in that they will do or say whatever they think they need to in order to carry on their addiction. Cheaters need to hit rock bottom just like the addict. They have to see they've lost everything. They have to capitulate to the betrayed. Then a new relationship can be constructed. To put it another way metaphorically they need to be leaned out over the edge of the cliff for a view into the abyss, realizing you are more likely to let go than pull them back in.

This forces the cheater to do A+ work to earn back trust. If the BS doesn't file for D, the WS only has to do D- work. Just enough to keep you from leaving. The cheater can sense that the BS doesn't really want to end the marriage, so the cheater does the minimum necessary.

Experience shows that few cheaters really understand what they've done, and many have character flaws whereby they don't really view cheating as deeply wrong. They are not loyal to their spouse or to the marriage. Many cheaters are cake eaters, and if they can keep the BS from leaving they see it as a win.

When a BS comes here and it is obvious their WS is unrepentant, especially if they are a serial cheater or their activities are especially egregious, the wisdom is to just D rather than get involved in what will surely be a false and failed R.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

There are some of us who do not belong in the "bags" you have described at all. I assure you, I had no lack of "balls" and was at no deficit of fortitude, nor did I suffer from even the slightest inability to support myself alone, and my two sons were in no way an "excuse" for me to stay, however, they were a legitimate reason why staying was preferable to divorcing.

My cheating, morally-flawed wife would have been named the custodial parent in the divorce, and my two sons would have watched the cocque carousel spin round and round if I were absent from the home. Their lives would have been influenced not only by their mother, but by a parade of cheating, morally-flawed men who came, got their schtup, and left, without even a modicum of responsible behavior.

I didn't want my sons to learn that the kind of behavior which their mother flaunted in front of them was even remotely "ok". I rather wanted them to learn that a MAN honors his responsibilities and his marital vows, and does so even in the face of adversity, and even when his fleshly nature is crying out for vindication.

And, guess what? Because I "stayed", and considered their welfare, and their ethical instruction more important than my desire for retribution, I can look in the mirror just fine....it is only unfortunate that their mother considered her sons' moral guidance quite less important than her itchy puss.


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## Espeon (Jul 6, 2018)

VermiciousKnid said:


> In my experience with our clients, a lot of the women filing for divorce because their husband cheated, more times than not there were multiple instances of adultery over a long period and she finally got fed up with forgiving him over and over and called it quits. As for men, far more times than not, they file on the very first instance of adultery by their wives. As a divorce attorney I can say that clients tend to treat you as a de facto counselor. They confide in you. These men almost always tell me that their wife cheating on them has robbed them of their manhood and self-respect as a man. That the only way they can get it back is to divorce her, otherwise they become a chump/cuckold. A male client filing for divorce after tolerating multiple instances of adultery by their wives is a very rare thing in my business.


I'm going to respectfully disagree. I've handled my fair share of divorces as an attorney. There are certainly cases where people file divorce after first incident of infidelity, but usually there's a good bit of immaturity on both sides in these incidents. According the CDC, 3.2% percent of the U.S. population obtained a divorce in 2016 (although 6 states did not report their ratios, the state-to-state statistics range between 1.6 % to 4.4%). Infidelity numbers are notoriously difficult to determine, but anonymous surveys report infidelity in almost 30% of marriages. States that separate divorce filings based on causes like infidelity and uncontested show that over 90% of cases are filed uncontested. Anecdotally, the majority of divorces grow from differences other than infidelity and the majority of infidelity cases only reach courts after the betrayed spouse has made multiple efforts to save the marriage.

I've read a good bit on divorce over the years and have worked with almost 700 families going through separation. I strongly believe most people fail to treasure their first marriages. Most people only enter marriage with reckless trust once: family, friends, finances, homes, and other aspects of life are combined without any thought at how to separate if things do not go well. Subsequent marriages, by contrast, often feel like friendly business transactions. Especially when kids are involved, you only have one chance to share "everything" with another person. It's worth fighting and forgiving for.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

stillfightingforus said:


> ... Long story short, I gave everything I had to try to save the marriage but my STBXW was NOT remorseful, she didn't want to be married (to me) anymore and she wanted out! My blunders were continuing to think I could win her over with time, resolve and love. As I have learned now, what should be seen as good and of great compassion, is seen as the opposite from the woman's side when they are in the fantasy land of the affair. They see a weak man, someone that doesn't hold a candle to the AP, even if the AP is cheating on his wife, doesn't matter. He was meant to be with her, his wife is just collateral damage.


SFFU, you learned so much through this experience, the hard way. Now you are an expert, and trying to help everyone else. Paying it forward, so to speak. Next week, if you see your XW in court, tell her that it is the last time you will ever speak to her. All communication is to be through e-mail, if about the kids, and through attorneys, if about financial issues. Be as cold as ice. No hugs or well wishes as she heads off to break up POSOM's family.

I am not a Catholic. I am protestant Christian (a mainstream traditional denomination, not a rock and roll entertainment mega church). I will admit I don't like the Catholic practices, which all seem to be hypocritical to me. So forgive me here, but I say DO NOT Annul your marriage. It is so wrong to pretend your marriage never existed. It makes your children illegitimate. Join a protestant church. Some of them are hypocritical too, but you can get married again before God in a church without pretending your first marriage never happened. Your divorce is Biblically correct because it is the case of adultery. Your ex-wife can't marry POSOM unicorn soulmate. Too freaking bad.

I wish you much happiness in the future.


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## Edmund (Apr 1, 2017)

anglo said:


> Would be interested to hear from people especially men, who carried on with their marriage after discovering their wife's affair. What was it like? Was she remorseful did she change her behavior. What help did you get etc. I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces.


Anglo,
to answer your question, @Lonely husband 42301 is the rare example of recovering a marriage after a devastating affair. Read his (lengthy thread) to see how it is done. He is famous for burning his marital bed in a bon fire to make a point.

Sorry for T/J with SFFU.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Edmund said:


> SFFU, you learned so much through this experience, the hard way. Now you are an expert, and trying to help everyone else. Paying it forward, so to speak. Next week, if you see your XW in court, tell her that it is the last time you will ever speak to her. All communication is to be through e-mail, if about the kids, and through attorneys, if about financial issues. Be as cold as ice. No hugs or well wishes as she heads off to break up POSOM's family.
> 
> I am not a Catholic. I am protestant Christian (a mainstream traditional denomination, not a rock and roll entertainment mega church). I will admit I don't like the Catholic practices, which all seem to be hypocritical to me. So forgive me here, but I say DO NOT Annul your marriage. It is so wrong to pretend your marriage never existed. It makes your children illegitimate. Join a protestant church. Some of them are hypocritical too, but you can get married again before God in a church without pretending your first marriage never happened. Your divorce is Biblically correct because it is the case of adultery. Your ex-wife can't marry POSOM unicorn soulmate. Too freaking bad.
> 
> I wish you much happiness in the future.


Thank you. I have done good at minimal contact. We speak through a messaging platform about once every 3 days about kids stuff. For example. Picked up kids on Monday, didn't say anything to her. Tuesday, she sent a message asking if it was ok to pick kids up at 5 on Wednesday, I said no problem. Wednesday, she picked up the kids and as she left asked about the instructions for giving my daughter medication for her swimmers ear. I said, I taped them to the bottle and she said 'ok'. Yesterday, nothing. And today, I will be picking up kids for the weekend, this is my 5 day stretch. I'll have them to come home to after the court appearance so that will be a blessing.

And I agree about the annulment, for whatever, reason, I still hold 'most' of the marriage as something that I dedicated my life to and was special, with a lots of good times and lots of growing, lots of blood, sweat and tears. She was my life, for better or worse from age 20-38. I see an annulment as that it never happened and I don't agree with that, even though I have heard through the grapevine she would seek one for all of the reasons she tried to convince herself and others on why the marriage didn't work. Oh well, I can only control myself and I know what is right and more importantly, righteous.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@TJW said: "I didn't want my sons to learn that the kind of behavior which their mother flaunted in front of them was even remotely "ok". I rather wanted them to learn that a MAN honors his responsibilities and his marital vows, and does so even in the face of adversity"

Don't fool yourself. What you are actually teaching your sons is how to be a sacrificial lamb. That it is OK not to leave the skank of a wife, and become a passive man just sacrificing away his life, because he is not man enough to divorce the wife, with the excuse of children. They are learning that men should accept it and have a false sense of honor and responsibility. 

That's why you get an attorney that will get to show the courts that the mother is not morally fit to keep the children. This is not the past where women were automatically, given the children; nowadays, is mostly 50/50, and whatever is more beneficial to the children. You just have to prove it in court. 

You are divorcing the cheating partner, not your children. Moreover when you stay with a cheating partner do you think he/she will have any respect for you?


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## PaulB (Jun 26, 2018)

anglo said:


> I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces.


Some of that probably comes from people who tried to salvage a marriage...and ended up divorced down the road anyway.

My first wife cheated on me. I tried to forgive her and move on. I wonder if we had stayed together if I could have moved on with time without issue stemming from that. Unfortunately, there was a bunch of other crap going on that I couldn't deal with any longer. I suspect that is the case with many cases of cheating. Honestly, I thought the cheating and the fallout might prompt her to work on her other issues. She was verbally aggressive and sometimes physically as well. Random things would trigger her periodically and all hell would erupt. It was like living with Jekyll and Hyde sometimes. Things might be smooth for months and months, but I knew the storm would come eventually. I chalked some of it up to being immature, since we had married young. Some from childhood elements that would be categorized as dysfunctional. I thought it was my duty to lover her through the good and bad and to love her into getting better. I also was scared stiff of having a judge take my two kids away from me and letting her have custody.



What made me decide to file for divorce? Not uncovering a brief affair she had. It was a new garden hose holder that I had rolled the hose up in that I was apparently supposed to return to Walmart. It triggered her, she blew up and melted down over it. When her rage was over, I told her "I'm done. Not doing this anymore." I started the divorce process that week.


You can cheat on people you love. You can mistreat people you love. Love is a bullschitt reason to stay with someone who does either to you. Respect is what keeps you from cheating on your spouse or from mistreating him/her. 

If your wife cheated on you, there's more at play than just an act of sex with another man. At the least, you should file for a legal separation. You can work on healing and forgiveness in that setting. I'm convinced not taking that action--even if your desire is to salvage the marriage--simply plants a seed for the cheating spouse to take advantage of you down the road, either by cheating again or some other manifestation.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

TJW said:


> There are some of us who do not belong in the "bags" you have described at all. I assure you, I had no lack of "balls" and was at no deficit of fortitude, nor did I suffer from even the slightest inability to support myself alone, and my two sons were in no way an "excuse" for me to stay, however, they were a legitimate reason why staying was preferable to divorcing.
> 
> My cheating, morally-flawed wife would have been named the custodial parent in the divorce, and my two sons would have watched the cocque carousel spin round and round if I were absent from the home. Their lives would have been influenced not only by their mother, but by a parade of cheating, morally-flawed men who came, got their schtup, and left, without even a modicum of responsible behavior.
> 
> ...


Same position. The affair was almost 30 years ago now.

There is a lot of debate as to whether it is better to stay together or split up for the sake of the kids. I think that if you can make it work (and not every coupe can) there are clear advantages to the kids for staying together. The kids are adults now, and I am personally in no doubt I made the right decision for my case. That wouldn’t make it right for everybody.

But for example, what if one of those morally flawed men, having got their schtupp from my wife, then turned around and got seconds from one of my children. There is one way to prevent that. And then a host of less clear but serious things. Do some research, and it’s not open or shut, but there is reason to suspect that the kids are damaged by divorce. The question is whether the relationship is so toxic that staying together will do worse damage.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> @TJW said: "I didn't want my sons to learn that the kind of behavior which their mother flaunted in front of them was even remotely "ok". I rather wanted them to learn that a MAN honors his responsibilities and his marital vows, and does so even in the face of adversity"
> 
> Don't fool yourself. What you are actually teaching your sons is how to be a sacrificial lamb. That it is OK not to leave the skank of a wife, and become a passive man just sacrificing away his life, because he is not man enough to divorce the wife, with the excuse of children. They are learning that men should accept it and have a false sense of honor and responsibility.
> 
> ...


There is a lot of middle ground between standing up to your “skanky wife” and being a sacrificial lamb. I don’t know your circumstances. If this is what you did, it might have been the only reasonable option for you, but for me it would have been putting my welfare ahead of my kids. I had the ability to create a better outcome, and I did it.it worked for me, it would not work for everybody.

Saying anyone who stays is just weak is insulting nonsense. You have to judge case by case.

When you divorce, unless you win total custody,your skanky wife has control of the kids and a chance to manage their lives according to her skanky values, when it’s her turn. I would not have trusted my wife at the time of the affair to make those decisions, because her moral compass was pointing south instead of north.

You can stay but not be a doormat. That is the line I, and others I know, took with success. 

My wife is flawed, but she still matters to me. In most ways her character is good, and she is working on those aspects that led her to cheat.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

PaulB said:


> Unfortunately, there was a bunch of other crap going on that I couldn't deal with any longer.


If you are going to reconcile, finding a way through the other crap is mandatory.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Edmund said:


> Anglo,
> to answer your question, @Lonely husband 42301 is the rare example of recovering a marriage after a devastating affair. Read his (lengthy thread) to see how it is done. He is famous for burning his marital bed in a bon fire to make a point.
> 
> Sorry for T/J with SFFU.


When I joined TAM there were many more examples. The culture of the place has changed, and my impression is that reconcilers are less likely to stay. There also used to be examples of both sides posting. EI and B1 ( who were originally called EmptyInside and BetrayedOne), SomedayDig and Regret214, and Mr and Mrs Mathias were couples whose threads were personally helpful to me.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Espeon said:


> I strongly believe most people fail to treasure their first marriages. Most people only enter marriage with reckless trust once: family, friends, finances, homes, and other aspects of life are combined without any thought at how to separate if things do not go well.


Gold. Absolute gold.

Reconciliation meant building a new and different relationship with my first wife. Largely the same as I would have done with someone else had I divorced and remarried,though of course I had to get over the history.


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## MovingForward (Jan 19, 2017)

Espeon said:


> *you only have one chance to share "everything" with another person*.
> 
> I thought this exact thing the other day


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

MovingForward said:


> Espeon said:
> 
> 
> > *you only have one chance to share "everything" with another person*.
> ...


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Rob_1 said:


> @anglo said: "I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces"
> 
> Because people that have self esteem, that value themselves, have strong character, and moral values, do not put with cheating, dubious, morally flawed partners, only weak, cowards, and doormats that even though they cannot look themselves in the mirror they still stay, because they don't have the balls and fortitude to get out of their horrible relationships, and most of the time when there are children they use the children as an excuse not to leave their ****ty relationship.
> 
> You seem to fall in one of the above categories.


Hmmm. By your characterization I am a weak, cowardly, doormat, lacking balls because I chose to reconcile? Really? Interesting generalization. However, I do realize TAM posters for the most part gravitate towards the “torch and pitchfork” brigade always advocating burn the ***** and divorce her. 

For the record I am none of the above. I am solid, resolute, and unafraid of what other think of me. I made a decision that was best for me. 

In some instances reconciliation is a viable option. A remorseful spouse is the key ingredient necessary for R. Without that it will not work. I saw my spouse as remorseful after I was away for almost six weeks. Long story I don’t want to rehash, but we are doing exceptionally well after 2 1/2 years of R. We love each other greatly and she appreciates my choosing to reconcile, and thanks me often. Do I still trigger? Yes, but rarely at the moment.

Bottom line is, a betrayed spouse has to think through the pros and cons and do what is best for them to heal. My choice was R.
It was a good choice in my humble estimation.

Peace.:smile2:


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@Lonely Husband42301. I was not specific, but I was referring to those men that no matter what, how much their woman cheat on them, flaunt it, rub it in their faces, they still act like what they are: sad, pathetic excuses of a man that won't lift a finger to remedy their situation, because these men are paralyzed with fear of losing their woman, because most likely they think that's the best they'll ever do.

When the wife/girlfriend shows true remorse, and want to do what it takes to not lose their husband/partner, then it is up the the betrayed spouse to give the gift of reconciliation or not.

I, personally would not.
My motto is and always will be: I don't care who, when, where, why, only that you did. Relationship over. No if's or but's, period.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> @anglo said: "I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces"
> 
> Because people that have self esteem, that value themselves, have strong character, and moral values, do not put with cheating, dubious, morally flawed partners, only weak, cowards, and doormats that even though they cannot look themselves in the mirror they still stay, because they don't have the balls and fortitude to get out of their horrible relationships, and most of the time when there are children they use the children as an excuse not to leave their ****ty relationship.
> 
> You seem to fall in one of the above categories.


I believe it is up to the individual to decide if they want to forgive and rebuild their marriage. I do not view forgiveness as a sign of weakness, but rather as a sign of a very deep strength that stems from knowing both that people are capable of change and that a marriage can be worth more as a whole than the sum of its flawed parts. 

The people on this board (in general, but not as a rule) seem unwilling to believe that anyone can or will change. Perhaps that's true, but even if it is I believe that part of our roles as spouses is to try to inspire change in our partners anyway. We marry, in part, to help our spouses reach their potential as people. Sometimes the road to that potential runs through the cesspool of the bad and selfish choices we make as people. 

In full disclosure, I have never been in the position of being betrayed by my spouse. It's difficult to say with any certainty what I would do in that position, but if the way I have handled myself in other trying times is any indication I would try to live by that principle. I don't believe that we gain anything by viewing forgiveness as a weakness, and more importantly forgiveness is a part of my nature. Not forgiving would be to deny my nature.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@pplwatching: read post #32.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Keeping a deceptive, lying, cheating spouse around is largely tantamount to growing eyes in the back of your head because all of the faith and trust that you once had instilled in them is now gone, and quite frankly, is never likely to return!*


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I see several camps that form on this issue.

1. The "I took my vows seriously" camp. Well, as I see it, the deal is broken. The contract breached. These were vows for vows. I pledge and you pledge, but once one breaks, the whole deal collapses. Still, for those folks, it gets them thru. A bit of a martyr thing, but if it works....

2. The " I gotta see my kids every day" camp. I get this group, but it seems selfish and ultimately rings hollow once the kids are grown or old enough and they still remain. I think its selfish because they ignore the impact on the kids. Soldering thru is not a good lesson. I meet more kids who wish their parents divorced rather than have the sham marriage with all of the crap that went along with it. Sure, they get the reasons, but I have yet to meet one, who disclosed their history, who said I am glad my folks stayed together. Not a one. Maybe the reach of this forum will bring one out.

The "my spouse would get custody or who would they bring into the house" camp. This group imagines the worst and imaginary tales of woe cannot be defeated. They heard of some horror story without knowing ALL of the key facts in context and they build off of that.

Whatever gets you thru the night, I suppose. There is no one size fits all.


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## bigfoot (Jan 22, 2014)

I forgot to say that the idea of totally destroying and altering your life because someone could not keep your pants on is daunting. Hopes, dreams and plans trashed overnight is not easy and it should be a hard choice. I just support making it based on facts and not fiction.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

bigfoot said:


> I see several camps that form on this issue.
> 1. The "I took my vows seriously" camp.
> 2. The " I gotta see my kids every day" camp.


Lets not forget 3. The "I understand what my spouse did but will work to rebuild our marriage if they will" camp. This person isn't motivated by vows or kids, but sees potential for a fulfilling marriage if the wayward is willing to put in the work.


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## pplwatching (Jun 15, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> @pplwatching: read post #32.


I'm sure that such men may exist, but I am inclined to believe they are outliers. From what I have read here and on other marriage boards, it's rarely that simple.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

We stayed together.

We found the tools to be emotionally healthy individules ( I still can't spell). I stopped slapping my old lady around and she stopped phucking around and shyt just clicked. No more bar fights for me and no more screwing in the restroom stalls for her!

Long a go,I had just gotten out when I met that tight little 18 yr old biker chick (yes HA) and some how here we are empty nesters growing old together.


IMHO trust is over rated, but what the phuck do I know, my old lady trusts I won't slap her around anymore and I trust she won't bang some young 30 yr old, so we have that going.


Ya I'm a coward..... scared shytless of ever going back in (prison is very very very bad place). As far as a doormat.....Ya I have a thing for tight little blonds(my old lady is still little...not so tight). Morals.....LOL... lets just say I'm better then I was.

I'm no officer or a gentlemen, but I run a crew of guys that listen and respect me, my kids respect me (both well educated and make bank, go figure with parents like us) and most of all my old lady respects me (at least my johnson)! 


As far as self esteem....hell IDK but I do know I kept my old lady around cuz she is still "fun" , she listens, still looks good in her daisy dukes and boots and most of all she stopped banging strange at the bar....hell it's been seven yrs since either one of use got into a good bar fight.

So ya I come from the other side of the track then you fine folks but to judge a guy for keeping his old lady around after she phucks some guy in a nice car, or some young kid that bang like the energizing bunny ,or some suit with money, or........any way it's just phucked up to judge.

Well that's my $0.02.


P.S.
I'm baaaaack!


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

Not wife but fiancée. She wanted to stay but I broke it off. She went on to cheat on the guy she married and is now married to the woman she cheated on him with. I also know some guys who forgave their wives and the wives cheated again. Second time it was more difficult to catch them. I once dated a married women who I did not know was married. No ring or white mark on ring finger. She had been cheating for 10 years. Said that once she knew that her husband feared a divorce, she felt that the risk of cheating was much lower and at most it would be an argument and then some make up sex before she cheated again. There are both men and women out there who fear divorce and for good reason. No job skills, lots of kids, loss of a nice lifestyle, someone to cook and clean for you, etc.. Once you let someone take advantage of you, you have given them the upper hand and knowledge that the risk they feared is no longer on the table.

The other problem is that even if they do not cheat again, how do you trust someone who proved that they cannot be trusted? How do you believe someone that lied to your face with sincerity before? As far as I am concerned, I would feel the same whether my wife did or did not have sex with someone on her business trip, or came home late and did not answer her phone, or went out with the girls and came home at 2am, or went shopping for a few hours on a weekend, started wearing new perfume, sexier underwear, better appearance, working out to get into better shape, giving me more sex perhaps out of guilt, etc.. In other words I would feel the same whether they cheated or not and I would not want to live that way.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

bigfoot said:


> I see several camps that form on this issue.
> 
> 1. The "I took my vows seriously" camp. Well, as I see it, the deal is broken. The contract breached. These were vows for vows. I pledge and you pledge, but once one breaks, the whole deal collapses. Still, for those folks, it gets them thru. A bit of a martyr thing, but if it works....
> 
> ...


Regarding the bolded bit, my kids are clearly happy that their parents are together, but as far as I’m aware they have no idea what happened. They were too young to understand even if they picked up that something was wrong. I see no reason to tell them.

We repaired the relationship. Not perfect, but what relationship is? My kids are adults now, and my job is done, so if I wanted to I could leave now.

Regarding the vows. I agree they were broken, and I was within my rights to divorce. But the vows were made for a reason. I had a job to do with my kids. Your point three can happen (I have seen it) but even without that, I believe there is evidence that kids are better off being raised by both parents if those parents can form a constructive relationship. There are people who argue the other way on that, and that’s ok, but I believe what I believe.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> @anglo said: "I sense the atmosphere on this forum is always pushing for people to get divorces"
> 
> Because people that have self esteem, that value themselves, have strong character, and moral values, do not put with cheating, dubious, morally flawed partners, only weak, cowards, and doormats that even though they cannot look themselves in the mirror they still stay, because they don't have the balls and fortitude to get out of their horrible relationships, and most of the time when there are children they use the children as an excuse not to leave their ****ty relationship.
> 
> You seem to fall in one of the above categories.


One size fits all, if anyone deviates from the machoman model, then they are a doormat, weak not real men, have no balls, have no fortitude etc. Because no real man would ever forgive a cheater, right?

There is a logical fallacy called the "No true Scotsman" fallacy.

Your post is a classic example of this fallacy.

Some marriages can be saved, some cannot. Even if there has been cheating.

Some marriages cannot be saved even if there has been no cheating.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@MattMatt: read post #32.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

the guy said:


> We stayed together.
> 
> We found the tools to be emotionally healthy individules ( I still can't spell). I stopped slapping my old lady around and she stopped phucking around and shyt just clicked. No more bar fights for me and no more screwing in the restroom stalls for her!
> 
> ...


I’ve read some of your older posts.
It seems your wife has ****ed her way through half the male population of California but she’s too old now so you feel those days are over.
Yours is one of the saddest tales I’ve ever heard yet you seem happy.
Wow,just ****ing wow.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

I think each couple has to decide for themselves what is best for them. There is no one size fits all. 

In our case...I confessed...so I did not "get caught".". He chose to give me a second chance. Why? Many reasons. He still loved me, We had 2 small children who still needed both of us, we financially could not afford 2 households. Was he devastated? yes Was he afraid? yes Was he heartbroken? yes. But he was strong enough to make the decision he felt was best for him and his kids.

That was 34 years ago. Did he make the right decision? yes he did....and the last thing he needs to hear from anyone else is a description of a man who chooses to stay... from men who have no experience in reconciliation. It always amazes me...how people who divorced or even better...who have had no infidelity experience if any kind...can spew opinions about reconciliation when they have absolutely no idea.

Reconciliation is not the right answer for everybody. It is a tough road and not everyone can travel it. But divorce is not always the right answer for everybody either. MattMatt is absolutely correct. 

Some marriages can be saved, some cannot. Even if there has been cheating.

Some marriages cannot be saved even if there has been no cheating.

We have a wonderful marriage....a wonderful family....and the only thing we regret is that we have infidelity in our past. It does not define who we are....and we will always carry a scar.. but Our relationship is better than it has ever been...and I don't think we are the only ones who have a successful reconciliation. It is possible for those who are willing to put in the work...to grow as individuals and to mature as a couple.

Some people attempt to reconcile and find that they just cannot...and then divorce....and that's ok. 
Some people make the decision to immediately divorce...and that's ok.

and some people just keep on keeping on...and that's ok


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

anglo said:


> *Would be interested to hear from people especially men, who carried on with their marriage after discovering their wife's affair. *What was it like? Was she remorseful did she change her behavior.


Ok, I guess I fit the question.

59 years old. Approaching 10 years in R with my wife after discovering that she had been serially cheating for years back in our 40's. 

Yeah, I eventually stay. Rode the fence for over 2 years post DD. Yep, she did all the "right" things, no contact, remorse, capitulate, open book, begged for mercy, da-da-da.

Why I didn't bail? Honestly... I was a collection of things. 

50 years old.
30 years invested in marriage. House paid off. No debt.
1 kid in college, 1 entering Law School.
No penalty retirement less than 5 years away, she'd get half.
Lawyer informs me that her cheating means nothing in contested D. 
Basically, I'm screwed regardless of R or D. 

NO Pity for me, not asking, don't want any. I made the decision on my own. I live with it. 

Couple of observations that rarely are ever breached on TAM. JMO but... 

At 50, the options are less viable then 30 or 40.
Full R is a myth, from the outside looking in it may appear so, but no one is the same after infidelity. It changes you, your marriage forever.
Forgiveness is not a one-time pledge. With infidelity it is more of a progression that will backup on occasion. 
Forgetting is for fools and pure folly.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

you don't get "over it". You learn to live "with it". 

No one...ever...forgets 

But you can certainly forgive without forgetting.

infidelity changes you...whether you reconcile or divorce... however...It is up to you how you decide to let that change have a positive impact or a negative one.

in life lessons...we can learn from our bad choices ...and we can take that experience to become a better person...or we allow those choices to make us a bitter person. Not just in infidelity...in life in general. Financial difficulties, health problems, relationships...It is up to us to choose how we allow those things to mold us into who we want to become.

The answers don't come all at once...and each of us has to be allowed time to grieve for the losses we experience.

I took away the innocence of our marriage. I can never get that back...that is a permanent change. I grieve for that loss...but I have not allowed that grief to make me bitter. I have chosen to be better.

Infidelity is like a death....and each of us has to grieve for the loss we have experienced. Time...can certainly be our friend. How much time do we need? I don't know. Each of us has our own timeline. We each have to allow each other the time we need and not judge others by our own timeline.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

stillfightingforus said:


> Overwhelmingly most do but there are so many factors, variables, etc. I remember talking to my counselor last year and one of my concerns is that you hear so much of divorce and once you hear about couples going through issues, then they can't reconcile and eventually divorce, where are the stories that result in couples making up, reconciling, working through things, etc.
> 
> Her response was that many couples do all those things but chances are you never hear about them. Their issues are kept closed and worked through between the couples and in a lot of those cases, no even knew the couple had issues, mainly because they are still together.
> 
> ...


You have come so far padawan. Seriously posts like this are why I am still on this board. I never thought you would get here, I am proud of you.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Most of the time those marriages seem to me to be like two people trying to reanimate a dead corpse. Though I think in very rare cases it can happen. Also some of this has to do with the magnitude of the cheating. A drunken one night stand, I guess I could see how someone could get over that. I couldn't or wouldn't even want to but I admit it happens. A 6 month affair with a completely separate life and hundreds of thousands of lies. I think you silly to give your love back to someone like that. You should kill your love, even if circumstances force you to live with this person. Unconditional love is a mistake. 

I think even those who say they are happier then ever lots of times just don't know what they are missing. I suspect their lives would still be better with someone else. I think the BS probably realizes this a lot more then the WS does. Lots of WS think their marriage is better then ever. Probably for them it is, they got to have their fun at their spouses expense. I suspect if you could give the BS truth serum they wouldn't say the same, they would probably give anything to go back to the way the marriage was before. 

Lots of them seem to go into reconciliation with the idea that one day it will be like it was, but I have never seen anyone even the ones who seem to have recovered say that. It's always a different marriage. I think lots of times by the time the BS gets that it's not going to be the same they have already invested so much time they just stay with it. Also if the BS was a terrible spouse then maybe it can be better, doubt that happens much though. What are the chances that being cheated on is going to make and ******* less of an *******. Probably very small. 

Unfortunately I think lots of people do mostly out of fear, or need. Which is really tragic. Sometimes it's money, other times kids. But if it is kids once they are grown you why wouldn't you leave if you can afford it. 

Overall the main question you should ask is what will the quality of the rest of your life be.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I am not sure whether those who stay with a cheater are mad or brave. Or maybe they are afraid of ending the marriage and being alone. Or what others will think. Or of not having enough money and loosing their lifestyle.

Certainly for me if the cheater wasn't repentant or had done it before that would be the end. Not sure if I could stay anyway. The trust would have gone and I don't think I could ever have sex with them again.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Lots of them seem to go into reconciliation with the idea that one day it will be like it was, but I have never seen anyone even the ones who seem to have recovered say that. It's always a different marriage. I think lots of times by the time the BS gets that it's not going to be the same they have already invested so much time they just stay with it. Also if the BS was a terrible spouse then maybe it can be better, doubt that happens much though. What are the chances that being cheated on is going to make and ******* less of an *******. Probably very small.


 Just reading the 'Reconciliation' board on a well known infidelity website is pretty eye-opening - and not in a good way. The sheer *delusion* of those people trying to reconcile is actually palpable; it's a bunch of desperate people trying SO hard to convince each other that they made the right choice to stay, while hoping against hope that their cheater isn't lying to them anymore (good luck with THAT). It's just so utterly pathetic and sad. And there are posters there that have been there for YEARS, desperately trying to show the world how 'reconciled' they are after their husband had his fun for 7 or 8 years. Who BRAGS about reconciling with someone like that? Good lord.

And then there are what appear to be a rash of supposedly 'happily reconciled' members all coming back to the board a few years later to report that their_ remorseful _cheater - who worked SO hard at reconciliation - has once again done the unthinkable.

So, I'm with the poster who thinks remorse is pretty much a rarity. I think most cheaters put on a *SHOW* of remorse - enough to fool their BS and at least pass the sniff test, but overall, it's just an *act* for most.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Rob_1 said:


> @MattMatt: read post #32.


I did.

And I agree with @Mrs. John Adams and @Lonely husband 42301 and others.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Just reading the 'Reconciliation' board on a well known infidelity website is pretty eye-opening - and not in a good way. The sheer *delusion* of those people trying to reconcile is actually palpable; it's a bunch of desperate people trying SO hard to convince each other that they made the right choice to stay, while hoping against hope that their cheater isn't lying to them anymore (good luck with THAT). It's just so utterly pathetic and sad. And there are posters there that have been there for YEARS, desperately trying to show the world how 'reconciled' they are after their husband had his fun for 7 or 8 years. Who BRAGS about reconciling with someone like that? Good lord.
> 
> And then there are what appear to be a rash of supposedly 'happily reconciled' members all coming back to the board a few years later to report that their_ remorseful _cheater - who worked SO hard at reconciliation - has once again done the unthinkable.
> 
> So, I'm with the poster who thinks remorse is pretty much a rarity. I think most cheaters put on a *SHOW* of remorse - enough to fool their BS and at least pass the sniff test, but overall, it's just an *act* for most.


I agree a truly remorseful WS is like finding a diamond in a garbage dump. (Yeah I am drawling a comparison to adulterers and garbage. --not all!) It can happen but it is exceedingly rare. I think lots of times the BS just keeps projecting their feelings onto their spouse. Probably how they married them in the first place. Besides that, why are they sorry? Mostly because they are embarrassed and their lives went to ****. Not because of the pain they caused, most of them are not deep enough to even conceive of the pain. They don't love in a way that they could ever feel pain like that. 

I think the post on here the other day about the pro adultery site is probably closer to how most WS think. They know it's wrong but it feels so good.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I think that just like knowing whether remorse is real takes time, so does recognizing REAL recovery. A couple who swears their blissful 9 months after Dday is NOT recovered. A couple that is STILL playing their wayward and betrayed roles out 25 years later is not recovered. 

The ones we dont gear from 5 years out are probably the MOST recovered....because they arent still here spinning it out.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think most cheaters put on a *SHOW* of remorse - enough to fool their BS and at least pass the sniff test, but overall, it's just an *act* for most.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

personofinterest said:


> I think that just like knowing whether remorse is real takes time, so does recognizing REAL recovery. A couple who swears their blissful 9 months after Dday is NOT recovered. A couple that is STILL playing their wayward and betrayed roles out 25 years later is not recovered.
> 
> The ones we dont gear from 5 years out are probably the MOST recovered....because they arent still here spinning it out.



I don't know....I guess I look at it like this. While I may have my opinion...when push comes to shove..it really is just my opinion and really has nothing to do with whether or not someone else is recovered or not.

There have been posters here on TAM that claimed to be reconciled...and who am I to doubt or dispute them.

At the end of the day...my opinion of your recovery really doesn't matter....and quite honestly...your opinion of my recovery doesn't matter either.

If infidelity touches your life...and you want to divorce...then that's the right answer
If infidelity touches your life...and you choose to stay together...then that's the right answer

and whether i recognize it or not...it changes nothing

I have been here along time...and I have seen people attack others for making the decisions that they felt were right for them. I think people come here for a variety of reasons...but the biggest one is for support.

Infidelity makes us feel alone and helpless and while we are searching for answers...we mostly want to know we are not alone. My john came here because he wanted to know if he was the only one feeling the way he was feeling.

SO even if we might think someone is making the wrong decision...at the end of the day...we need to support one another.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"SO even if we might think someone is making the wrong decision...at the end of the day...we need to support one another."

This

And if one cannot be supportive, one can just NOT post on the thread.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> you don't get "over it". You learn to live "with it".
> 
> No one...ever...forgets
> 
> ...


Each person has to make their own choice, but when my wife had the affair, she took my innocence in such matters forever, and irrevocably. And not just with her.......

I thought I picked a good one. I still believe she is a very decent person in most ways, but what she did was awful. People say "find someone better" but I would always be doubting. That's how my mind works. 

If someone else can find peace just with someone new, good on them. That wouldn't work for me.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> So, I'm with the poster who thinks remorse is pretty much a rarity. I think most cheaters put on a *SHOW* of remorse - enough to fool their BS and at least pass the sniff test, but overall, it's just an *act* for most.


The cheater wont change who they are, but they might.....might....change how they handle it. And that might be enough.

Its not certain, but us betrayed types take the risk, or live alone. No other choice.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Wazza said:


> *Its not certain, but us betrayed types take the risk, or live alone. No other choice.*


Wazza, you nailed it.

In the end, life/marriage is accepting the inheritance of risk.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> it's a bunch of desperate people trying SO hard to convince each other that they made the right choice to stay, while hoping against hope that their cheater isn't lying to them anymore


I'm sure that is true, but I'm also sure that those who end the marriage want to convince others they made the right choice. There is no approach that is guaranteed to work. You size the situation up, you make the best decision you can, and you do your best to make it. 

After almost three decades, I am as comfortable as I have ever been, but it will never be perfect. Never like nothing ever happened.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

John certainly knew what i was capable of...I had proven that to him. But he also believed I understood what i had done and would not do it again. It is a chance he was willing to take. I proved him right. However...nothing will ever take away what i did. In his opinion it was the worst, most horrible thing in his life. I accept the responsibility for that. It doesn't matter if others think adultery is not the worst thing...he does....and it is his life that matters to me and to him.

Our life together is amazing...but what i did will forever be present in our relationship. It does not define us...but it is there. So ...our life is amazing in spite of what i did. Sad that we have infidelity in our past....but it is reality.

I guess my message still remains...whatever you decide is best for you...is the right answer...and whether I agree with you or not is irrelevant. I still respect your decision and want you to feel supported in that decision.

I am not on a mission to preach reconciliation... I am on a mission to offer support....regardless of the decision you feel is right for you. I don't know the dynamics of each individual relationship represented here and I certainly don't have the right answers for everyone else. Others advised John to divorce me....and obviously...that advice was wrong. None of us know what is right for someone else. 

and each of us is allowed to do what we think is best....and then change our minds. I know of several couples that divorced and then remarried.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Wazza said:


> The cheater wont change who they are, but they might.....might....change how they handle it. And that might be enough.
> 
> Its not certain, but us betrayed types take the risk, or live alone. No other choice.


There isn't a man on this planet worth reinvesting in when the chances - at BEST - are, "*hopefully, maybe* he won't do it again."

I mean, I'd probably do it for Brad Pitt. But other than that, there's not a man on this planet worth that price tag.


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## Understand60 (May 3, 2018)

What everyone is forgetting is that life is complicated. Divorcing, may not be the best option for many reason, just as staying together, may not be wise. Trying to fit a one size all response to cheating from everyone does not work. Know of many couple who reconciled , and stayed together, and have happy marriages. Know of other who live in hell, and some in between. Point is, what do you think will work for you, and are you will, be it you are a BS or WS, to put in the the very hard work to make the marriage work. That is the real question. Can ether party put int he hard work for reconciliation, or want to?


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There isn't a man on this planet worth reinvesting in when the chances - at BEST - are, "*hopefully, maybe* he won't do it again."
> 
> I mean, I'd probably do it for Brad Pitt. But other than that, there's not a man on this planet worth that price tag.


For you...this is the right answer. It does not apply to all.

A relationship...always has risk...yes the odds are not in your favor is infidelity has already occurred....or is it? If you have a spouse that has committed adultery...confessed...and is remorseful and has put in the work to repair the damage they have caused...are they then the safer bet over a new spouse?

How many couples marry....blindly? What if you have cheated and you don't tell the people you are dating that you cheated? you marry....but you never disclose that information to your new spouse. Do you think this ever happens?

I do..I think there are lots of divorced people who never tell their new spouse the whole truth. So what are the true odds?

I confess...I don't know But again...I appreciate that for YOU...you would never give a wayward spouse a second chance. I understand your decision.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

There are very few cheating spouses here, like Mrs. John Adams, and Mrs. Walloped on SI, that I believe actually understand what they have truly done, the devastation caused by them, but also their commitment to change and fix themselves and husbands. It could not have beeb easy for them.

But I believe such people are few and far between. Do you believe that your wife has the internal strength and commitment to do what these two examples have done?

And there is a second part to this equation.... how do you really feel about what she has done??? Can you ever get over the fact that she gave herself and her body to another man? Can you get over the fact that she gave her body to another man to use as he sought fit? 

For me, and this is just me, I could never get over it. When we tried to have sex, I couldn’t. I just rolled over and cried like a newborn. I could not get over the knowledge and image that I was going to go into where she allowed him into. When ever she tried to kiss me, all I could see was him using her mouth.

Maybe I wasn’t strong enough, or maybe there are somethings that once done, no second chances can be offered.

Only YOU can make this decision. You must do what is best FOR YOU!!! 

Good luck


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There isn't a man on this planet worth reinvesting in when the chances - at BEST - are, "*hopefully, maybe* he won't do it again."
> 
> I mean, I'd probably do it for Brad Pitt. But other than that, there's not a man on this planet worth that price tag.


Yeah, there isn’t a man on the planet I’d do it for either.

Do you have a guaranteed way to ensure your partner will never, ever cheat? Or do you do the best assessment of the risks you can and take the chance?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> it's a bunch of desperate people trying SO hard to convince each other that they made the right choice to stay, while hoping against hope that their cheater isn't lying to them anymore (good luck with THAT). It's just so utterly pathetic and sad.


While the overwhelming zeitgeist here is a bunch of people trying desperately to convince betrayed spouses that reconciliation is a myth that can never work and you're worse than a sucker for even trying it.

Either way, it comes down to a bunch of people trying SO hard to convince others that they have the truth as given from on high engraved on stone tablets, unerring and unreproachable.

It's nauseating in all of its forms.

Life is complicated. So are most of the answers to most of its problems.



Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Wazza said:


> The cheater wont change who they are, but they might.....might....change how they handle it. And that might be enough.


This might be the most important thing you can do. You can only self-flagellate for so many years over your transgressions before that stops being a motivator. 

Personality is one of those things that is very, very stable over time - for all of us. So while you might not be able to completely erase the part of you that allowed you to be unfaithful, you can recognize what caused or facilitated it in the first place, and put in place barriers that you didn't know you needed before you needed them. 

I didn't think I was capable of cheating. I was as surprised and disappointed in myself as my wife. I had to change both my thinking and my approach to 


My reaction to the underlying issues in my marriage that made cheating seem if not acceptable, then at least more endurable than the alternative.
How I viewed my wife's motivations for our sexual incompatibility, which fueled my sense of entitlement (both of those are on me, not her, but real nonetheless)
Firewall my interactions with other women so that I could never again get to a place where an affair was even a possibility.
Fully, completely, in my bones recognize that an affair is not an answer to the problem, solved nothing, nearly destroyed everything, and should be avoided again at all costs.

In short, while I am still a flawed human with a spotty track record, my thinking has changed and my behavior has changed. I am a LOT smarter about infidelity now. There is no better teacher than the school of hard knocks. I am less of an infidelity risk now than ever before, when I was relying merely on hubris - which is the goal, after all.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Most of the time those marriages seem to me to be like two people trying to reanimate a dead corpse. Though I think in very rare cases it can happen. Also some of this has to do with the magnitude of the cheating. A drunken one night stand, I guess I could see how someone could get over that. I couldn't or wouldn't even want to but I admit it happens. A 6 month affair with a completely separate life and hundreds of thousands of lies. I think you silly to give your love back to someone like that. You should kill your love, even if circumstances force you to live with this person. Unconditional love is a mistake.
> 
> I think even those who say they are happier then ever lots of times just don't know what they are missing. I suspect their lives would still be better with someone else. I think the BS probably realizes this a lot more then the WS does. Lots of WS think their marriage is better then ever. Probably for them it is, they got to have their fun at their spouses expense. I suspect if you could give the BS truth serum they wouldn't say the same, they would probably give anything to go back to the way the marriage was before.
> 
> ...


Is a tragedy in life, like many others, that does alter the union forever... I been in R for over 5y and all is well, a lot has happened since then that also diminishes the A to the point where now is a faint memory for me, I can't really recall a lot of my emotions felt then, I can identify them, but I can't really relive them in my head anymore, I guess that was a telling tale for me that I felt recovered.
W is a completely changed person, not only because of the A, but also from riding out her uterus cancer and hysterectomy for a whole year, and doing it together, has bonded us in a new way..... So I think the best way to "get over" the affair is to pile on as many new bonding memories as possible (good ones preferably) to fill in the leftover crater of the A. 
Yes you never forget, but it does become a faint and a rather painless memory. 

I didn't decide anything out of fear, I still loved her after finding out she cheated.... That simple, if that isn't good enough reason I don't know what is.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Is a tragedy in life, like many others, that does alter the union forever... I been in R for over 5y and all is well, a lot has happened since then that also diminishes the A to the point where now is a faint memory for me, I can't really recall a lot of my emotions felt then, I can identify them, but I can't really relive them in my head anymore, I guess that was a telling tale for me that I felt recovered.
> W is a completely changed person, not only because of the A, but also from riding out her uterus cancer and hysterectomy for a whole year, and doing it together, has bonded us in a new way..... So I think the best way to "get over" the affair is to pile on as many new bonding memories as possible (good ones preferably) to fill in the leftover crater of the A.
> Yes you never forget, but it does become a faint and a rather painless memory.
> 
> I didn't decide anything out of fear, I still loved her after finding out she cheated.... That simple, if that isn't good enough reason I don't know what is.


I think it's hard to call someone willful decision to abuse another a tragedy. More like a great injustice. If all were like you maybe I would agree but from what I can tell most are not like you. For me I need loyalty, trust and the able to respect the person I am with. All of those things are just as important as love to me. Love is overrated.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I think it's hard to call someone willful decision to abuse another a tragedy. More like a great injustice. If all were like you maybe I would agree but from what I can tell most are not like you. For me I need loyalty, trust and the able to respect the person I am with. All of those things are just as important as love to me. Love is overrated.


Your post seems to indicate that those who reconcile...no longer have loyalty or trust or respect. and while you may feel that infidelity caused you to lose all of those things...it may not be the case for others.

You tend to think that how you feel and what you think is the way it is...therefore

You and i have danced this dance before...and I have tried to explain to you over and over again...that just because you feel this way...doesn't mean it is the way for ALL. For some...absolutely...but not all.

Love may be overrated in your life...but it alive and well in mine. John's love saved me. He never gave up on me when i gave up on myself...

The definition of tragedy is...an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

While infidelity may be an injustice...it is also certainly a tragedy.


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## Hope Shimmers (Jul 10, 2015)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There isn't a man on this planet worth reinvesting in when the chances - at BEST - are, "*hopefully, maybe* he won't do it again."
> 
> I mean, I'd probably do it for Brad Pitt. But other than that, there's not a man on this planet worth that price tag.


So with this you are insinuating that someone who hasn't had an A won't fall under that "hopefully" or "maybe" category.

Unless you have a crystal ball, no one can totally know the actions or control another person. I don't care who it is. I don't care how much you believe your spouse would never do that. When you marry someone, you take that risk. You always take on that price tag.

Mrs JA has said many times on here that her infidelity doesn't define her or her marriage. I agree with that but I also think that to an extent, it brought forward, even more so, the kind of person she is (and John as well), and I mean that in a good way. She learned early on how important her marriage and John were to her, something many of us take for granted or never really appreciate. She has since been the kind of person who shares her experiences, however painful that must be sometimes, and whatever flak she takes from others for her decision at that time. And she is the kind of person who would help anyone with anything. A person with character, as is John. We are lucky to be able to learn from her speaking about her experiences.

I think it depends a lot on the circumstances of the affair (how long it lasted, was there a voluntary confession, etc). And it depends on a million factors that are person-specific and couple-specific and can only be worked through when the situation actually happens. Hypotheticals ("I would never reconcile if my partner had an A") are just that - hypotheticals.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Hope Shimmers said:


> So with this you are insinuating that someone who hasn't had an A won't fall under that "hopefully" or "maybe" category.
> 
> Unless you have a crystal ball, no one can totally know the actions or control another person. I don't care who it is. I don't care how much you believe your spouse would never do that. When you marry someone, you take that risk. You always take on that price tag.
> 
> ...


I certainly am a person of flawed character...or I would never have cheated...however...I have worked on who I am and tried to use my bad choices to become a better person. I am still flawed...but I have worked really hard to overcome those flaws. 

Relationships are a crap shoot....and i got lucky. We all hope we are the lucky ones...and I honestly don't think any of us know because there are no guarantees in life and there is no crystal ball.

Sometimes...we are our own worst enemy. I certainly was.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Your post seems to indicate that those who reconcile...no longer have loyalty or trust or respect. and while you may feel that infidelity caused you to lose all of those things...it may not be the case for others.
> 
> *No it indicates that is how "I" feel.*
> 
> ...


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

None of us can say how our lives would have turned out if we had made different choices...education, choices of spouses, infidelity, health, finances....one little difference could have made a huge impact on us.

what would my life had been like had i not cheated? Would we still be together? What would have happened to me had he divorced me? 

I cannot answer all those questions.

and you are right...it was not up to john to save me...he did not have to...he owed me nothing. But he did...and therein lies the issue you and I have. You only have one vision...the vision of how terrible infidelity is...how unfair it is...and how it should be the defined ending of a relationship. and while I do agree with you about how terrible it is and how unfair it is...I also am very aware of what forgiveness feels like...and how redemption is a wonderful thing...and how the human spirit can fight for what it wants and what it needs and how it can overcome that which appears to be impossible. 

I do not abuse John in any way. I hurt him...a long time ago...but I don't hurt him or abuse him now and have not for a very long time. My affair hurt him terribly...and whether he had divorced me or stayed with me...he still would have suffered that pain. I do not emotionally abuse him. We do not have a dead marriage. It is vibrant and alive...and our children know parents who love and respect each other....and strive to have the same kind of relationship we have...one of love and respect.

I am not sure what you envision...but it appears to me you have this concept that reconciled couples have a different kind of marriage than any other couple. Maybe this is the part that confuses me the most about your posts. No one would ever know that John and i had infidelity in our past....and while we know...it certainly is not part of our daily discussion or actions. As a couple...we are very much like we were before infidelity happened. The dynamics are like they have always been. 

I think you have a hard time understanding what reconciliation means and you have some preconceived perception that two people live in a constant state of turmoil and friction...and maybe some people do but certainly not all. But then...some marriages are that way WITHOUT infidelity.

You advise the way you feel is the right thing and the right choice for others to make based on your perceptions without taking into consideration that perhaps...just perhaps...the right answer for them is to reconcile. I don't recommend reconciliation nor do I recommend divorce. I try to tell the facts about my own relationship so they can see it is possible and then i try to support their decision whatever it may be.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

I dont think any man ever gets over it. More like you learn to deal with it. No trust, lost respect, tainted wife, but she is what you know I guess...

You hear it all the time. After awhile, prisoners prefer bars to freedom. Slaves prefer chains to freedom. Not because it's better, but because its what you know and frankly change is scary. But once you get a taste of the 'outside' it is vastly superior and they will never take me back alive!


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Our story is a bit long so I'll spare you - but yes, we both survived with my husband working nine years total overseas. We are a strong couple who has been through a lot - both in our early lives growing up and in our lives with other spouses and together with each other. We have survived much worse than affairs - so PERSPECTIVE. We survived the loss of a child, which was FAR worse - PERSPECTIVE.

The one thing we both agree on is this: Never ring the bell. Skip to the end if you don't want to watch the whole thing..."If you want to change the world, you must be your very best in your darkest moments."






We both realize that the other stuff was stupid, ineffective ways of dealing with life's issues. If we want to screw other people, then we can. Everything is on the table and openness and honesty is the cornerstone of any relationship. But when we both were faced with the reality of screwing other people in the swinging world, we knew that affair stuff was a bunch of b.s. We didn't end up having sex with others in that world. We decided instead to turn towards each other with a renewed sense of commitment and appreciation for what we had been through and survived together and get rid of the dumb world of cruising for some pipe dream of something else. 

Life is a journey. There are no guarantees - not even a guarantee of how long you have on this earth with anybody. And trashing a hard-fought relationship to jump to another relationship is just getting a new set of problems with another person. 

Unrepentant affair people who can't handle being open and honest - yeah, ditch 'em. But a spouse who is going to hang in there with you and go forward, evolve, grow, get closer, open up and talk, put on their muck shoes and keep fighting for the relationship is priceless.


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## happiness27 (Nov 14, 2012)

Mrs. John Adams said:


> None of us can say how our lives would have turned out if we had made different choices...education, choices of spouses, infidelity, health, finances....one little difference could have made a huge impact on us.
> 
> what would my life had been like had i not cheated? Would we still be together? What would have happened to me had he divorced me?
> 
> ...


You are awesome, honey. I feel you and believe in you and both you and your husband should be proud of your hard-fought win in your relationship.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I think it's hard to call someone willful decision to abuse another a tragedy. More like a great injustice. If all were like you maybe I would agree but from what I can tell most are not like you. For me I need loyalty, trust and the able to respect the person I am with. All of those things are just as important as love to me. Love is overrated.


I suppose there are those who make a wilful decision to abuse another, but at other times, and I think more often, the BS is collateral damage. 

I respect my wife, and I trust her within limits. As would be the case should I find myself with someone else. But this is in part about who she is, and why she did what she did. (She did what she did, it was wrong, and it was a result of a very clear character flaw, but context is really important. Some people who haven't cheated simply haven't hit the right combination of triggers. Yet. Once my wife was in that group.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I dont think any man ever gets over it. More like you learn to deal with it. No trust, lost respect, tainted wife, but she is what you know I guess...
> 
> You hear it all the time. After awhile, prisoners prefer bars to freedom. Slaves prefer chains to freedom. Not because it's better, but because its what you know and frankly change is scary. But once you get a taste of the 'outside' it is vastly superior and they will never take me back alive!


Sorry, but I just think this perspective betrays a serious lack of thought.

First, you would have to explain what is the difference between getting over something and learning to deal with it. Maybe you struggled when you found out about Santa Claus too, but this is the real world. People fail. Maybe you never have, but the rest of us are imperfect.

No trust? It's not all or nothing, you know. In my case the nature of trust is rethought, but to be honest anyone who trusts blindly, without a bit of risk management, is an utter fool. So it;'s not easy, but I have enormous trust in my wife. I just know there are certain circumstances in which I have to manage things and be careful. But overall, her level of integrity is awesome. Better than me in many ways. Do any level of education in risk management, and what I say will immediately make sense. Running from risk, rather than accepting it and managing it, is a sign of being a newbie.

"Once you get a taste of freedom it's vastly superior". "You know this how? I will buy that once you take me through the details of your long and successful reconciliation (I have almost 30 years, but if you can show me 20 maybe we can compare notes). Because if you have really done both you have a basis for comparison. If not you have no right to make that statement. The early stages of reconciliation are extremely painful. But the end result is sometimes worth it. It was for me. If it wasn't I would have left. Who the hell are you to accuse me and others like me of some Stockholm Syndrome? Maybe I am deluding myself, or maybe its you.....

A mature person weighs up the good and bad and makes the best decision they can. They certainly shouldn't cling to something worthless out of fear (we probably agree about that), but neither do they run like a coward from the hard work of doing something that is difficult and worthwhile. This is not meant to be a personal attack, but I'm sure you didn't mean it personally when you stated that I, and others like me, are slaves, prisoners, and scared.

My marriage was worth it. I have had decades to confirm that. That doesn't mean it would be the right choice for everyone, but it was for me.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

Wazza said:


> Sorry, but I just think this perspective betrays a serious lack of thought.
> 
> First, you would have to explain what is the difference between getting over something and learning to deal with it. Maybe you struggled when you found out about Santa Claus too, but this is the real world. People fail. Maybe you never have, but the rest of us are imperfect.
> 
> ...


Thank you! You said this much better than I do.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Wazza said:


> Yeah, there isn’t a man on the planet I’d do it for either.
> 
> Do you have a guaranteed way to ensure your partner will never, ever cheat? Or do you do the best assessment of the risks you can and take the chance?


Unfortunately no one has a guaranteed way. 

The only thing to insure you won't get stuck with another cheater is to do what my sister did. After dealing with two failed marriages due to dirty rotten cheaters, she's decided not to get involved with men anymore. She's happily remained single for 14 years now and says she's 'married to herself.'

I can say, with *100% certainty*, that NO ONE has cheated on her in 14 years. :grin2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Unfortunately no one has a guaranteed way.
> 
> The only thing to insure you won't get stuck with another cheater is to do what my sister did. After dealing with two failed marriages due to dirty rotten cheaters, she's decided not to get involved with men anymore. She's happily remained single for 14 years now and says she's 'married to herself.'
> 
> I can say, with *100% certainty*, that NO ONE has cheated on her in 14 years. :grin2:




She should still get a VAR just to be sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Hope Shimmers said:


> So with this you are insinuating that someone who hasn't had an A won't fall under that "hopefully" or "maybe" category.


I'm not insinuating that those who haven't dealt with infidelity don't also have the 'maybe' factor going, too. I didn't say that. 

But let's be realistic here. On our wedding days, we ALL believe that we'll live happily ever after, or to the best of our abilities to do so. We all believe (or want to believe) that we'll defy the odds, so the thought that they 'might, maybe, possibly' cheat on us is there, but it's pretty distant. Especially since our spouse hasn't given us any REASON to think otherwise. 

But when you have someone whose already *SHOWN *you exactly how low they'll sink and how willfully they'll disrespect you and your marriage and how easily they can lie to your face on a daily basis while cheating behind your back, then the words "hopefully won't, maybe, might not cheat" just don't mean a whole hell of a lot.

And for some of us (because I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way), it's just not enough to hang our hats on.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> And for some of us (because I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way), it's just not enough to hang our hats on.


And for those "some of us," that is fine.

Intelligent people do not presume to extrapolate "some of us" to everyone and name-call or belittle whoever doesn't agree


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Wazza said:


> Sorry, but I just think this perspective betrays a serious lack of thought.
> 
> First, you would have to explain what is the difference between getting over something and learning to deal with it. Maybe you struggled when you found out about Santa Claus too, but this is the real world. People fail. Maybe you never have, but the rest of us are imperfect.
> 
> ...


There was nothing to reconcile with after infidelity. I don't want a skank that can't keep their legs closed with a family on the line. What kind of character does a person like that have? What kind of lack of respect does that infer onto you? Its all or nothing, and if you aren't all mine, you're someone else's. I don't want to play d!ck police, attend hours of counceling trying to figure out their bogus why's, clutching resentment towards her for the rest of my life, feel trapped into accepting someone I no longer have respect towards. But that's just me and my lack of thought.


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## Mrs. John Adams (Nov 23, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There was nothing to reconcile with after infidelity. I don't want a skank that can't keep their legs closed with a family on the line. What kind of character does a person like that have? What kind of lack of respect does that infer onto you? Its all or nothing, and if you aren't all mine, you're someone else's. I don't want to play d!ck police, attend hours of counceling trying to figure out their bogus why's, clutching resentment towards her for the rest of my life, feel trapped into accepting someone I no longer have respect towards. But that's just me and my lack of thought.


These are your thought and your feelings and the decision you made was absolutely the right and best one for you. No one here is trying to say differently. Just like My thoughts and views are not the right ones for you...your thoughts and views may not be the right ones for someone else.

There is no right or wrong answer here...there is what is right FOR ME. If my husband had felt the way you feel...he probably would have divorced me. He didn't.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> There was nothing to reconcile with after infidelity. I don't want a skank that can't keep their legs closed with a family on the line. What kind of character does a person like that have? What kind of lack of respect does that infer onto you? Its all or nothing, and if you aren't all mine, you're someone else's. I don't want to play d!ck police, attend hours of counceling trying to figure out their bogus why's, clutching resentment towards her for the rest of my life, feel trapped into accepting someone I no longer have respect towards. But that's just me and my lack of thought.


There are thoughts and there are emotions, and both matter. Each of us must make our own peace with things. 

Your journey is your journey, and I am in no way questioning the decision you made, for you. I don’t know enough about your circumstances to have an opinion. I also don’t know where you are in your journey. But it takes some time to work through the hurt this stuff causes. 

I can honestly tell you that my resentment over the affair was dealt with long ago in my marriage. We moved on to working through underlying issues in the marriage. 

I also think, if you are honest, there has to be an element of d1ck police in future relationships. If one person did it to you so can another. Your answer to dealing with that may be different to mine but you have to address it. 

I started my journey for the sake of my kids. But they are gone. And when the last of them became an adult, I took a good hard look at things, and chose to stay. Over the years there were a couple of times when it was a close thing. But it has worked out. 

May we all find peace in our own way.


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