# "Do I even like fathering?"



## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I thought if you wanted to attack/analyze me from a psychobabble standpoint, I'd start a seperate thread. Now, what I am about to say, I'd say about 75% of women can't understand/relate/empathasize and perhaps 25% can.

I used an analogy the other day with an ex-gf of mine and she was struck by the analogy, she said, after a long pause of silence. (she has no kids)

Anyway, you know how certain men, when they come from the army/navy/marines, join the VFW and go down there and reminisce about old times, share war stories, maybe look and collect old photos? They really relate to being a soldier? They seemed to almost love war?

Then there are other men like my grandfather, uncle, father who rarely talked about it. To them, it was dirty work, they didn't care for it, they were drafted into it, and they did their job, and did it well, but they didn't somehow think it was fun. They never put on their old uniforms and certainly never recommended the service to me. In fact, they said stay out of it if at all possible.

Yes, my family has a proud history of being drafted, I always say (LOL).

Well. . .with parenting. . .you can count me into the second group.

Raising 3 children and now, my latest deployment is a puppy. . .it's not fun. Right now, they go back to their mothers and I have a trashed, muddy house to clean. I am not "taking pictures" (not a pic-taking Dad) or anything and someday, when my Tour of Duty is up, I'll be like Forrest Gump in the Ping Pong room.

I am pretty good soldier (at least most women compliment me) - run them to sports, cook, clean, diaper, doctor visits, dentist, etc. . .but I can't wait for that Forrest Gump moment. 

I suppose I was married to a person who was a hardy soldier and loved it and that probably DID wear on the marriage. I can own my own contribution to that.

Don't get me wrong. . .I love my country (my kids). Love it with all my heart. . .and I serve my country out of duty and love, but I would not volunteer for this and not do it all over again. I do feel as if I was drafted. In fact, in therapy one time, she said, "I married him because I thought he'd make a good father." (soldier)

I suppose I can own it may be hard to be married to a man like that and it's something I put right out there when I am dating (it seems like most women like to put forward how much they love being a parent).

No worries. . .I won't desert. Maybe I was a little AWOL for a time during the separation, but I plan to do my duty so no taxpayor has to foot the bill.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

I love being a father. The best time of my day EVERYDAY is when I come home, my 3yo son runs into the living room to greet me with "HI DADDY" and a huge smile on his face. That being said, I had my first child at 18 so not being able to experience the world I will love the freedom I will have 15 years from now. I have a feeling I will still be telling war stories well after that point though.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm assuming you started this thread based on what I said to you in the other "When did Men stop being Men??" thread. For the record, I wasn't trying to "attack" you, so don't take it that way. Your own words were "I can take the judgement", but after I challenged your ideals it seems you're feeling "attacked". So I'm guessing you couldn't take the judgement after all...

Listen, I'm a son of divorced parents. Luckily my Mom met my Stepfather who turned out to be a wonderful father and was more of a "Dad" to me than my real father ever was. I consider my real father merely nothing more than a sperm donor at this point... Now that I'm 34 years old with 2 kids, he no longer has responsibilities to me and thus makes no effort to stay in contact with me or my siblings... nor is he even curious about getting to know his Grandchildren, which I consider my life's greatest achievements. It hurts deeply to have a hollow father, and from what I read in your words now seems to me as if you're heading down almost the same exact path as he did.

You can't wait to relieve yourself of your fatherly duties? Fine... hope you're happy not knowing your children later in life when they grow up to resent you. Prepare for that.... and if you're ok with that idea then you're really missing the point in life. 

Just remember that in your past married life YOU accepted responsibility of being a father when you impregnated your wife 3 times... now I see you complaining about the end result. Rather than blaming your kids for the misery you endured with your wife, you should try reflecting on the wonderful souls you took part in creating and appreciate them as your greatest achievements.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

I guess your analogy doesnt work for me at all, though I know what you are trying to say. To me, parenting isnt simply a 'job' or occupation, but if you feel like you were 'drafted' into it (thrice) then I can understand your looking forward to getting out. 

I believe that people can choose to cherish their environment if they so choose. Dont misunderstand me - Im not 'blaming' you for anything...or calling you a failure, but maybe you know the type - people that seem to thrive in any environment, in any circumstance, and seem to be positive and productive and happy no matter how mundane or difficult or unexpected or trivial the task or situation. Actually not 'seem to be', they obviously ARE. People that are not so fixated on the future but rather live in the present.

Honest friend, what I hope most for you would be to someday wake up and find that the trashed and muddy house to clean up is a by-product of the joy, chaos, exuberence, noise, discovery, once-in-a-lifetime goodness of kids... its life. You are going to miss it when you are 80 perhaps. Shrug your indifference off, spend your hours cleaning up and laugh while you are doing it. Throw yourself into your kids with reckless abandon...which is a 180 degree turnaround from merely being a 'good soldier' and shouldering the mental equivelance of a burden. Throw 'em (and the puppy) in the car, take them to the zoo for a day - and burn them out running around and having fun and doing stupid silly crap. On the way home - give them ice cream and they might smear it all over the windows and make a friggin mess and laugh and you can be part of it. You do NOT have many chances at this - you can grab the brass ring when it comes by rather than considering how much work it will be after you have it and how you'd rather be doing something else. Yeah there is also the zillion other things that are not quite as fun... the discipline and rules and brushing teeth, etc etc... but the point is to find a way to participate and WANT it. The good moments happen at unexpected times, but will only happen if you are there and not simply going through the motions.

Since I appear to be freaking pontificating on life (and really, I am not) a Thoreau quote springs to mind... "I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestioned ability of a man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor." Your attitude creates your environment - im a big believer in this. Gads he also said "To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts". 

If you believe you are soldiering on and 'doing your duty', that is precisely what you will have. No doubt about it. Seems a bit depressing to me, but the good news is that you can change it if you like. Give it a couple honest, full blooded hearty tries - you may be happily stunned out of your boots at the unexpected results.

just babling...


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No I get it. . .maybe I am wired differently. To the Dads who love every minute of it (or nearly), I applaud you.

Maybe if things had turned out differently. . .who knows. . .you know, I do like doing the traditional father things. . .teaching about money, teaching tools and fix it (I am marginal handyman, but your kids always think your cool if you can turn a screwdriver, lol), and sports.

For instance, my son wants me to help him be a goalie (the middle son). I would love doing that.

Except I have to be their mother. I am expected to be, both during the marriage and now especially outside of it. So. . .it's no "fatherly" things for my boys. Oh well. All of our losses, I guess.

(I am using "fatherly" in quotes on purpose to make a point; I realize it's a loaded term; allow me some discretion to make a point)

It's a shame; I know for whatever reason, my kids grew up with 2 mothers, not a mother and a father.

You can now see my personal bias in why I beleive there should be a Post-Feminist Movement.

I even wanted to bring this up in court during the divorce. NOt by my attorney, but by others, I was duly warned about using the term "Fathering" vs. "Mothering." It's now called "Parenting."

There is no "Fathering" anymore.

PS: Not blaming the kids. It's not their fault. I do wish they had a father who was "into it" but I don't hear them complaining for the most part. They are affectionate towards me and me towards them.

Like I said, you analyze my actions and any court of public opinion couldn't find anything wrong with what I am doing, other than my attitude and like the previous poster notes, my way of framing it.

Someday I expect a Court Order on that, though, lol.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> You can't wait to relieve yourself of your fatherly duties? Fine... hope you're happy not knowing your children later in life when they grow up to resent you. Prepare for that.... and if you're ok with that idea then you're really missing the point in life.


I am prepared for that. I am sure they must be at least partially aware of how I am not into it (but I think they are aware I love them deeply).

So. . .that's the point of life? To raise kids? And be Bing Crosby happy while doing it?

Interesting.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Bottled Up,

Don't mistake me. . .I still don't feel attacked. . .I just started this thread as to not detract from the other thread, that's all. I felt like you posed a question and I thought I would give you an honest answer, seperate to the topic at hand.

The honest answer is "No, I don't like fathering. But I do a decent job at it." At least fathering in the 21rst century.

I do love my boys though.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Anotherguy,

I appreciate the time you took in your well-thought out answer.

I am not sure if the "Fake it Til You Make It" approach will work on me. Perhaps the "Accept Your Lot In Life" approach will. . .if that's what you are saying. I think I have. I mean, what choice do I have anyway, right?

In fact, I am a pretty good faker. . .take my kids to the supermarket. Women pass me. What a good daddy. Go the playground. Other moms there. What a good daddy.

Well yeah, compared to the SOB AWOL deserters (and there are a lot of men out there like that - I have dated a couple women), or their men are out on a golf course (sob's! lol) I'm a Prince, lol. If they only knew. . .

If they only knew.

I don't know. . .I can keep eating zuccini and pretend like I like it and try to change my "Para-Dig-Em" from new age motivational speakers. . .doesn't mean I will. You'd have to put it in a chocolate cake and by then it doesn't even look or taste like zuccini 

It's not all bad. The K-rations aren't too bad 

I don't write this to depress anyone or to ask for help solving a problem. I only write this because I was asked straight up. And I thought she deserved a straight-up answer.

Take the information and process it. Maybe I am an abberation; probably am. Again, I am not asking for help. . .only answering BottledUp's question.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

I wouldnt bemoan or put too much stock in what you consider the loss of 'fathering' to 'parenting'. Especially as it relates to the legal torture of the court system,

You know, the 'good old days' of father knows best and leave it to beaver (farcical TV shows by the way) is not as good as you may think.. but that is neither here nor there.

'no fatherly things for my boys'. Really? Just because you have to clean up after them and make their lunch too? Dont misunderstand me - I thank my lucky stars I am not a single parent and I marvel at how single parents can possibly do it.. but I do NOT buy into he concept that since you are busy 'mothering' that your cant do the 'fatherly' things too.

I'd actually like to hear your talke on what fatherly things is, exactly. Im interested. I bet that when you examine it... the more you think about it - the more the word 'parenting' may seem not so bad. Kissing a boo-boo and singing some crazy 5 year old song is as much 'fathering' to me as learning how to 'indian leg-wrestle', make armpit farts, and properly handle a chainsaw. ... well to me anyway.

Crap... take em to ride on some go-carts or fishing or buy a freaking net and do some messing around in the yard with the goalie thing. Are you kidding me? He would love it, you would love it... what the he11 are you WAITING for!! DO IT!! :smthumbup:

You my friend, are wallowing in the mud. Get the heck up and get moving. Be an animal and have some gusto.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> So. . .that's the point of life? To raise kids? And be Bing Crosby happy while doing it?


No man, the point in life is to take responsibility and learn appreciation from the choices you've made. You chose one of the most pivotal courses for your life when you chose to make 3 more human beings in this world. Yeah, you should be "Bing Crosby happy" over those 3 _repeated_ choices you made.

I'll accept you're not like me and that all people are different, but I can't understand how some people are fundamentally disconnected from appreciation for parenting if that's what they chose to do in the first place. You weren't "drafted" into parenting, you said "sure I will give you my semen so we can make a baby". When you say "drafted" it sounds like you had no choice in the matter, but every man has a choice whether or not they're going to ejaculate inside their wives knowing full well that pregnancy is a probability (and was probably also discussed and agreed upon by both parties before that moment).

To not appreciate being a parent, to me, means you regret ever making children. I'm having a hard time discerning it any other way...


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

AnotherGuy,

LOL. . .probably some truth in it - me wallowing.

I think we are an example of what happens when a couple failed to family plan. The toddler would prevent any semblance of trying to go teach the middle one to be a goalie. In fact, I have done it. . .a disaster.

We all pretty much just gave up.

The older 2 even resent him and have said, "I wish he was never born." The middle one blames him for the divorce. I try to discourage that kind of thinking and told him our problems begain lonnnnng before he was born but appreciate they feelling like they can be open enough to say it with me.

We have a good relationship, despite what you all may be thinking.

I just can't wait for my discharge papers, that's all.

I'm going to look around and see if this is real or not and then go start Bubba Gump. 

BottledUp (I wonder if I should be thoughtfully conversing with someone with a moniker BottledUp  ):

Oh, I accept responsibility. I take care of business. No worries. Those kids are physically, mentally, and emotionally nutured.

Ohhhhh. . .you want me to like it.

Free Will is a funny thing, isn't it? God wants us to like putting on dress clothes and going to church every Sunday too whistling a happy tune. . .doesn't mean you do, though? Sometimes you just put on your Sunday best and just go, no?

Peeves the Priest something terrible, I guess.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Bottled Up:

Does every man have a choice? Look around and study young men and listen to young women and they're biological click is ticking, yadda, yadda. . .do they really have a choice?

Really, really?

There was a thread on the sex forum about a woman being so pissed she was cheated out of a baby. . .she left her husband. She's 36, no kids. BTW, I was sympathetic to her. . .she has a right to reproduce and if her husband was pulling out, and all that, well, she has an inalienable right to divorce. 

But her husband was "draft dodging" and boy, was she peeved.

In fact, i see it everyday. . .sometimes I want to tell the man. . ."Oh boy, whether you know it or not, you're about to be drafted." 

It's very common. 

So, it was either this man 

A. Accept his commission as father

or 

B. Go through the pain of divorce.

Well, what kind of choice is that? I can hear you lecturing him 3 years later. . ."Hey, you made the baby, Bucko! You had better like it!"

It's more common than you think.

BTW, I do think as the kids get older and I can do more Dad things with them, and less Mom things, I will soften my position on this. It's been like 13 years we've had a toddler or younger.

Not fun stuff.

Look. . .I am neither here to justify or depress you, just explain. Take it for what it's worth. If you need any more clarification, I'll be happy to give it, but I don't want this to be a big circle f with overanalysis.

It is what it is.


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

Scannerguard

You have a odd way of looking at fatherhood. Try looking at raising your children as parenthood rather than fatherhood.

I am the proud father of three great kids. I have changed diapers, coached, helped them with thier homework, set boundries for them, helped them with college applications, you name it I have done it.

I have never broken down responsibilities with my wife: motherhood vs fatherhood. Ok maybe one. I wanted nothing to do with discussing menstrual cycles with my daughter. lol.

Get with the program. You will be an old man some day and you will wake up and regret having such a poor attitude.

Life is about choices. Make good ones, be a parent your kids need you.


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## OOE (Mar 17, 2011)

Scanner,

You're really beating yourself up pretty badly.

I saw a t-shirt the other day on the web that really seemed to sum up our situation (I'm a 50/50 dad, too). It was a glass filled to the midway point with water. It said, "Air + Water = 100% full."

At some point you'll need to come to terms with both the air and the water. I wish I could point out the path, but yours will be different than mine.

And back on topic: I'm my boys' dad. I could never be a mom and don't want to. I don't interact with them like a mom. Our relationships are father-son, as they should be. My role is to teach them how to be men. If I had a girl, my role with her would be to teach her what a man should be so she'll know the difference when it matters. 

Cleaning snotty noses and mopping the floor is really just a small part of the package. Kids grow.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> Does every man have a choice? Look around and study young men and listen to young women and they're biological click is ticking, yadda, yadda. . .do they really have a choice?
> 
> Really, really?


Yes Scannerguard, really. I understand the pressures that men have to endure because of women's expectations in these areas, but I also believe that men still have the ability to make a choice when faced with pressures. Making a child just to appease your wife's expectations and not your own is not being "drafted", it's the man being a coward by giving in if that's not the type of responsibility that he wants in his life.

Being drafted is being forced into a situation where you have no choice in the matter. Believe it or not, you and most every other husband have a say on whether you would bring 3 children into this world. Whether you are strong enough to take it upon yourself to exercise that "say" is another story... but the summary of that story would not revolve around the idea of being "drafted".


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

if it wasn't a goal for you in life and you decide to because your wife nagged or whatever and then you end up divorced it could make you resentfull of having them to begin with.

I like being a father 95% of the time. but I feel like you do 5 % of the time.

and then there no sure bet you kids are going to be good people no matter how good a parent you were.being a good parent helps tip the scale in that direction but I bet there are a lot of good parents with adult children in jail.


I think being a parent help you grow as an adult and that alnoe is very valuable.


I bet once your kids are grown and you look back on it you will be please you had the chance to experiance it and the knowledge you gained from being a parent was woth the effort.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I am being a parent, gonefishin.

I challenge you to analyze my behavior and other than maybe not being too good with homework at night, criticize anything I am doing.

I have $20.00 in my pocket that says, in many ways, I may be a superior father than you. (since your post has the distinct tone of judgment in it)

Not that I am trying to judge you (even if you judge me and that's fine), nor am I asking for help/advice. But thank you anyway. 

Again, I was only answering a question.

You know what? Don't ask me a question unless you straight up expect to get a straight answer. Don't complain about the answer. Don't, in a Dr. Phil voice, say, "It's time to get real" and then when I get real, say, "Oh, well, I wasn't expecting that for an answer."

I know it must be hard to reconcile. . .here it is - a person who's a good father (or mother) on the outside, but inside, they don't really like it, but straight up, gonefishin, I guarantee you there are many "draftees" in this war, more than you realize.

I only tell white lies in person, not on the internet.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> I like being a father 95% of the time. but I feel like you do 5 % of the time.


Ah, there you go. . .it is really more accurate to look at this in percentages.

I would say I feel like the above, oh, I don't know, 75% of the time and then maybe 25% of the time, "I love it."

Mostly, it's a chore, like digging latrines or foxholes, but once in awhile, there's a cool firefight or you see something amazing or travel to an exotic place.

I have been framing this as complete drudgery and that's not entirely accurate.

Good point and clarification.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Straight up (my new phrase), there are mothers out there with the same thoughts and they would even be more chastized for agreeing they feel the same way.

In fact, I just met one woman where I detected a strong sense of "overcompensating", telling me how much she loved her 3 year old as a single mom (the father took off), that he's her whole world and he makes everything worthwhile.

Really? While actually I found it attactive, is that true?

She then confessed to harboring the above feelings more than "5%."

I admire her though. . .she was drafted. . .and she's handllign business (albeit on welfare).

And putting on a fake attitude for the TAMers of the world too. I told she doesn't need to do that. She can say it sucks.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

It's too bad that you did not wait for a woman who did not want children. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. We are so lucky that unlike previous generations, we have reliable birth control.

However, since this is the path in which you find yourself, have the grace to learn from your experience of fatherhood. You don't have to be anyone else's idea of being a father; give up the stereotype, and create your own vision of being a Dad.

I know that you scorn psychobabble, but what was your own father like? How did that color your vision of fatherhood?

I say relax, enjoy the ride, let go of stereotypes, and see how children can stretch your vision of who you are.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Look. . .thank you all. . .I wasn't asking for advice. My father was a good father. . .just fine. . we have a good relationship and I wouldn't mind if he told me it sucked when he was raising us.

I find it actually amazing in that a forum of people thinks I should be feeling another way, when I feel one way.

This is really bothering you all, isn't it?

Now, whether I was cut out to be a soldier. . .who knows. I sharpshoot pretty well, I'm up at the crack of dawn, stand pretty well in my marches. Maybe an all-volunteer army is the way to go. That's what we have now in this country.

We have 1% sacrificing for the 99% in military service.

Wars are far away things that happen to other people, right?

Maybe it's a healthy thing to have a draft. Maybe not. 

I do think the armed services believes that they'd rather have volunteers than draftees so I think you have a point.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> Ah, there you go. . .it is really more accurate to look at this in percentages.
> 
> I would say I feel like the above, oh, I don't know, 75% of the time and then maybe 25% of the time, "I love it."
> 
> ...


I think this makes sense. My analogy is that it is like making dinner. I love eating a well cooked meal. There are times I don’t mind preparing it, but a lot of the times I don’t. I can’t stand the clean-up, and would love to give it to someone else, but I often can’t. I still love eating a good meal.

I love my children, and am glad that I have them. In total, they make my life better. But there are things involving them that I don’t like. Frankly, there are times when they behave in such a manner that I don’t like them. That is the "cost" to have them around. I made that choice, and I don’t regret it. But the idea that I have to “enjoy” all aspects of parenting or fatherhood does not make sense.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You were "drafted" 3 times? You had no say and just had to soldier up, right? You and Gotti really ARE teflon.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Yup. . .here comes the "It takes two to tango" posts.

I accept the fact they are my children and I made them.

Hello. McFly.

What don't you get about that? I went along with it, I conceded and I accept full responsibility and have been, to their physical, mental and emotional wellbeing.

I think women, for centuries, have this illusion that oh, once little Junior gets here, his heart will melt and he'll be into it. And maybe for some men it does.

It didn't for me, maybe I'm an aberration. . .again, I didn't write this with any political point in mind, it was only to share. . .take what you want from it and judge me. . .that's fine. It's okay. Just don't badger me.

I am not sure what more you want from me.

If there are men out there happy changing diapers, callling out of work when the kids are sick, running here, there, buying clothes, assembling Barbie dream houses. . .good on ya. Honestly. Good on ya.

As the witness said in OJ Simpson, "I"m not sure why we are having this adversarial relationship. . ."

I guess I should close out my part in this. . .and let you discuss amongst yourselves and make whatever conclusions you want - he's screwed up, bad father growing up, selfish (I can own that), abberation, feminism did it, whatever. . .

Again, don't ask a question where you may not like the answer.

Never ever do that with me.

Got a lot to do. . .puppy trashed the house (my latest commission in the Army  ). . .shouldn't have been posting here. . .feel free to talk amongst yourselves.


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## Cherry (Sep 23, 2009)

Tall Average Guy said:


> I think this makes sense. My analogy is that it is like making dinner. I love eating a well cooked meal. There are times I don’t mind preparing it, but a lot of the times I don’t. I can’t stand the clean-up, and would love to give it to someone else, but I often can’t. I still love eating a good meal.
> 
> I love my children, and am glad that I have them. In total, they make my life better. But there are things involving them that I don’t like. Frankly, there are times when they behave in such a manner that I don’t like them. That is the "cost" to have them around. I made that choice, and I don’t regret it. But the idea that I have to “enjoy” all aspects of parenting or fatherhood does not make sense.


I can certainly relate to this. Children are a ton of work, energy, and time. They are draining. There are things I miss about not having children. There are times where I just want to crawl into bed after a long hard day, I can't do that! Plus I can think of a million things I could use that daycare money on too! 

And so here I am and I really wouldn't change anything about my babies, they really have become my life. 

I have a child who is graduating from HS this year. She is well rounded, she is kind, she is respectful, she is beautiful, and she is mine. I can't really put into words what it feels like to see her turn into a young woman and know that you were there, you guided her, you raised her to be that young woman. It is an amazing feeling. I can still remember when she was born, the struggles, the wondering what will become of us, will the world end, will she struggle when she grows up... Here we are now, doing it all over again, I think the same things with my young twins and I hope that I am here typing the same things about them in 14 more years 

Sorry for the ramble.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Yup. . .here comes the "It takes two to tango" posts.
> 
> I accept the fact they are my children and I made them.
> 
> ...


out smart that puppy and put it in a crate that way it won't trash your house.......just an idea. good luck with your pup


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scannerguard said:


> Yup. . .here comes the "It takes two to tango" posts.
> 
> I accept the fact they are my children and I made them.
> 
> ...


NOTHING wrong with saying parenting isn't all sunshine and farting unicorns. I get that. What bothered me is your putting the onus on her as if she forced you to become a father not once, twice but three times. Okay?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> There was a thread on the sex forum about a woman being so pissed she was cheated out of a baby. . .she left her husband. She's 36, no kids. BTW, I was sympathetic to her. . .she has a right to reproduce and if her husband was pulling out, and all that, well, she has an inalienable right to divorce.
> 
> But her husband was "draft dodging" and boy, was she peeved.


This is why ... #1 a woman seriously NEEDS to marry a man with the same heartfelt dreams & goals in life. That was her 1st mistake... she thought she could change him down the road , I remember reading that thread and I felt she didn't really have the right...she KNEW upfront it was not something he wanted, he made that clear. 

And men Settle too, they want the hot babe no matter what, doesn't matter if she has a credit card problem or is high maintainence in some way - they KNOW it will cramp their style, they don't need the extra mouths to feed, the hassle, the chaos, the fighting ....living childfree would be best for them....and there is nothing wrong with this at all ! The world has too many people anyway, too many kids in foster homes, not all are meant to be parents by any means. 

Plenty of women to accomondate this as well (well true, some do change their minds later in life). I knew since I was a teen what I wanted, I never deviated. 

Imagine being drafted 6 times Scanner ! Mine was even willing to spend thousands - even give up some of our dreams for a country house to pay for 1 invitro attempt -after yrs of infertility -we had it scheduled infact, then by a miracle, got pregnant that very month. But he is just THAT TYPE...I count him a more doting father than I am a Mother even. 

I am sure this would be so much easier if the Mother was with you to clean up that house and do that traditional part you counted on when you married-as you are the traditional type of man or so I seem to gather. You never envisioned this to come upon you, this was not in the plan. 

Take a moment and play this song Scanner... someday you'll look back upon this time right now........ 

Harry Chapin - Cats in the Cradle Nonofficial Music Video - YouTube

Are you looking for some inspiration ? Got Netflix? I get how you feel , I am not judging you at all, I would probably feel this way if I had a career & couldn't be home with my kids, I might enjoy 25% of the money part but despise 75% of the never being home & stress of it. I would imagine you would like to change this a little if you could -if you could turn that 25% into maybe 75% when they are with you...at least. Enjoy thier childhood and feel good about what you are and mean to him, wholehearitly. . 

Rent this movie...... "Courageous" ....this was all about being a MAN of integrity, becoming the Best father possible.... Amazon.com: Courageous: Alex Kendrick, Kevin Downes: Movies & TV

.... it was about loss, it was about mistakes, it was about hope, it was about family, and resolution. (one of them was not married) 

These men were Police Officers, it shows how strong they were -how brutal & dangerous the job is, owning up to their failings as husbands & fathers, and striving to make it right.

But they all found a new direction in life, they were all tested in something and overcame ... this was made by the creators of "Fireproof" so it was a christian based movie, but none the less. It was very good, the message in how these men took a stand to be better MEN & better Fathers. I watched this with 2 of my sons the just the other day. 

Courageous (2011) - Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube


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## gonefishin (Oct 7, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> NOTHING wrong with saying parenting isn't all sunshine and farting unicorns. I get that. What bothered me is your putting the onus on her as if she forced you to become a father not once, twice but three times. Okay?


Well said brighteyes

I just do not get his analogy. If anyone is drafted it is the children that are brought into this world.

When one is "drafted" they do not have a choice in the matter. He enlisted. If anything he is just saying he would not enlist again if he had a "do over" Sounds like he is making the best of it.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

@ Scannerguard. I am the woman version of you. I swear you said what I feel and what I have said to my husband. Have you ever been to that site truemomconfessions.com? While people are here judging you, there are millions of parents who feel this way, but never say anything because they are afraid of being judged quite like others have done here.The internet has now allowed parents to say how they feel anonymously. Its great to have that outlet, most of these feelings are out of frustration and more prevalent during the children's younger years. These feelings usually go away as they become older. My marriage is suffering greatly. We have 4 kids under the age of 4. I know it is not my childrens fault but their existence in our lives has our marriage feeling like it is in a thunderstorm with no ray of sunlight in sight. People hate to admit it, but think about when marriage started to go downhill...Most post on this site inquiring about help in a marriage start with "the first (how ever many years) were great then, after my wife had our son/daughter.... Then they talk about the downfall. If parents especially mothers can not vent about parenting and be honest about their feelings you will see even more parents depressed than you see now. Its so hard now because back then kids were raised by everybody in the community and they were all on the same page. Now we do it alone. There is no outlet. Moms and Dads can't express their feelings, they can't say "i love my kids, but I hate being their parent" they can't say "i'm so tired of my kids right now, i need to be away from them". No, not without catching a whole lot of flack for being the world's worst parent for being completely exhausted by your kids. Should parents have to spend the next 18-20 years repressing these feelings? I'm not saying they should say these to their kids, but to have that support system is so essential right now and we shouldn't harp down on each other. That's almost like a husband and/or wife needing to vent about their spouse but not being able to. Gawd, could you imagine? If venting about being a parent is bad, then venting about your wife or husband is just as bad. At the end of the day you decided to have these people apart of your life. So I guess we should just shut talkaboutmarriage.com down then and just repress how we feel. People have told me, "well you should not have had kids" yet when I did not have kids and said "gosh I really don't want kids they said "omg, how could you not want kids, you are not a woman if you don't want kids". Society does this. Why do you see so many women who can't busting the butts to have one. Then on anti-depressants after they do. Its such a cruel world. They don't allow women to have tubal ligation in some states until after they have had 3 kids and are over 25. I know because I was the woman asking for it after my first and was told no.My husband has actually said that a woman who can have kids, but does not is a waste of a woman. Can you believe that? No matter what, people would judge you anyway, if you didn't have kids and they would tell you that you should and that you are wrong if you don't. Being a parent is hard and tiresome and as much as some of these phony parents hate to admit it. Half if not more of all parents would probably kill to be their friends who don't have kids for just one day.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> @ Scannerguard. I am the woman version of you. I swear you said what I feel and what I have said to my husband. Have you ever been to that site truemomconfessions.com? While people are here judging you, there are millions of parents who feel this way, but never say anything because they are afraid of being judged quite like others have done here.The internet has now allowed parents to say how they feel anonymously. Its great to have that outlet, most of these feelings are out of frustration and more prevalent during the children's younger years. These feelings usually go away as they become older. My marriage is suffering greatly. We have 4 kids under the age of 4. I know it is not my childrens fault but their existence in our lives has our marriage feeling like it is in a thunderstorm with no ray of sunlight in sight. People hate to admit it, but think about when marriage started to go downhill...Most post on this site inquiring about help in a marriage start with "the first (how ever many years) were great then, after my wife had our son/daughter.... Then they talk about the downfall. If parents especially mothers can not vent about parenting and be honest about their feelings you will see even more parents depressed than you see now. Its so hard now because back then kids were raised by everybody in the community and they were all on the same page. Now we do it alone. There is no outlet. Moms and Dads can't express their feelings, they can't say "i love my kids, but I hate being their parent" they can't say "i'm so tired of my kids right now, i need to be away from them". No, not without catching a whole lot of flack for being the world's worst parent for being completely exhausted by your kids. Should parents have to spend the next 18-20 years repressing these feelings? I'm not saying they should say these to their kids, but to have that support system is so essential right now and we shouldn't harp down on each other. That's almost like a husband and/or wife needing to vent about their spouse but not being able to. Gawd, could you imagine? If venting about being a parent is bad, then venting about your wife or husband is just as bad. At the end of the day you decided to have these people apart of your life. So I guess we should just shut talkaboutmarriage.com down then and just repress how we feel. People have told me, "well you should not have had kids" yet when I did not have kids and said "gosh I really don't want kids they said "omg, how could you not want kids, you are not a woman if you don't want kids". Society does this. Why do you see so many women who can't busting the butts to have one. Then on anti-depressants after they do. Its such a cruel world. They don't allow women to have tubal ligation in some states until after they have had 3 kids and are over 25. I know because I was the woman asking for it after my first and was told no.My husband has actually said that a woman who can have kids, but does not is a waste of a woman. Can you believe that? No matter what, people would judge you anyway, if you didn't have kids and they would tell you that you should and that you are wrong if you don't. Being a parent is hard and tiresome and as much as some of these phony parents hate to admit it. Half if not more of all parents would probably kill to be their friends who don't have kids for just one day.


wtf?


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Bottled Up said:


> wtf?


Just how I feel. What's so wtf about it. I said what I said and I don't need you to agree. To be honest I wasn't even talking to you.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Tired:

Thank you for the share. I guess your moniker says it all. 

I get you.

SA:

I will take a look at those links later. . .thanks. I am picky about movies and I appreciate referrals. Movies mean a lot to me.

Ever see the movie Family Man with Nicholas Cage? It probably puts selfish men like him (and me) into context regarding this issue.

He goes from a high powered executive, laying a different woman every night, to a "family man", complete with a bowling league, best friend, wife and kids. Good movie with a mix of comedy and tragedy.

You know, call it fate, but I ran into the "overcompensating mom" today and told her I had some rabid forum people after me for sharing. WE got to talking about parenting and we both agreed on one thing:

We both liked the teaching part. I love to teach.

I hate to nuture. But let's face it - parenting is mostly nuturing. Well, mothering is.

It's why I went into CAT scan vs. MRI actually.

I seriously thought about MRI at one point but you have to be all nuturey. . .like, "It's okay, SA. . .don't worry. . .only 5 more minutes. . .breath. . .the tunnel isn't closing in on you. . .need a sedative?"

CAT scan is "Get on the table, off the table. . .we have like 5 patients waiting outside the door." lol

No, I am not a nuturing mother. . .or it doens't come to me naturally let's say. I have to fake it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> SA:
> 
> I will take a look at those links later. . .thanks. I am picky about movies and I appreciate referrals. Movies mean a lot to me.


 That movie is is for sentimental inspiration, I ADORE movies that make me THINK. My husband was off watching PUss & Boots with the little kids, now I should want to be with my kids but cartoons just don't do it for me, I would rather watch the drama / tear jerker. 

I did see Family Man yrs ago-- I don't really think you are selfish for expressing any of this at all. Neither do I feel TIREDWIFE&SAHM is either, I think being able to unleash these feelings (that most of us struggle with from time to time at least)-this is even healthy, that way we get to examine it --and possibly DO something to INSPIRE us to change our thinking just a little.... why I gave those particular links. 




> We both liked the teaching part. I love to teach.
> 
> I hate to nuture. But let's face it - parenting is mostly nuturing. Well, mothering is.


 I am not sure what the heck I am, I enjoy the baby years tremendously, but the TEEN years I adore! I hate helping my kids with thier homework, so my husband does it -so I guess teaching is not MY thing, God Bless our Teachers in education ....I do NOT have the patience!!

...BUT when it comes to mentoring them about LIFE....I eat that up in spades, Love to talk to my children about virtues, wisdom, banter with them, argue with them, the more intelligent they get , the more I enjoy it somehow. I was never the type to stop every MOm & need to hold their baby, not interested at all. 

I love having a big family, some chaos, I am well equipped to handle this, I am high energy, I know how to manage kids & their attitudes, my greatest gift to them is .....giving them beautiful memories of their childhood---with friends, activity, I can watch them from afar even, but I am always THERE beside them too.

I do not fill my days babying and being overly involved with my children, I want them to be come into thier own independence, I see this as our role as parents, just having them share my house, the funny things they do, what they bring to our lives is JOY enough FOR ME .... 

But I am preparing them for this big bad world so they can make it on thier own, be responsible, respectable, and make their contribution to make the world a better place. 

It sure helps when you enjoy the Process though!!


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## FirstYearDown (Sep 15, 2011)

Any parent who shares their true feelings about the downside of raising kids is brave. 

We are told that having children is the most enriching experience, that defines us as adults. Admitting that there are frustrating or disappointing aspects of raising children is verboten, which doesn't make sense. As with any life decision, there are positives and negatives.

My husband could never be "drafted" because he married a woman who does not want children. It is that simple. He is having his vasectomy next week; no doctor will give me a tubal because I do not have babies and I am 29. There are people in this world who are well aware that they are not suited for parenthood and it would be great if they could all meet each other. Scannerguard had a choice in the matter of becoming a dad.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> @ Scannerguard. I am the woman version of you. I swear you said what I feel and what I have said to my husband. Have you ever been to that site truemomconfessions.com? While people are here judging you, there are millions of parents who feel this way, but never say anything because they are afraid of being judged quite like others have done here.The internet has now allowed parents to say how they feel anonymously. Its great to have that outlet, most of these feelings are out of frustration and more prevalent during the children's younger years. These feelings usually go away as they become older. My marriage is suffering greatly. We have 4 kids under the age of 4. I know it is not my childrens fault but their existence in our lives has our marriage feeling like it is in a thunderstorm with no ray of sunlight in sight. People hate to admit it, but think about when marriage started to go downhill...Most post on this site inquiring about help in a marriage start with "the first (how ever many years) were great then, after my wife had our son/daughter.... Then they talk about the downfall. If parents especially mothers can not vent about parenting and be honest about their feelings you will see even more parents depressed than you see now. Its so hard now because back then kids were raised by everybody in the community and they were all on the same page. Now we do it alone. There is no outlet. Moms and Dads can't express their feelings, they can't say "i love my kids, but I hate being their parent" they can't say "i'm so tired of my kids right now, i need to be away from them". No, not without catching a whole lot of flack for being the world's worst parent for being completely exhausted by your kids. Should parents have to spend the next 18-20 years repressing these feelings? I'm not saying they should say these to their kids, but to have that support system is so essential right now and we shouldn't harp down on each other. That's almost like a husband and/or wife needing to vent about their spouse but not being able to. Gawd, could you imagine? If venting about being a parent is bad, then venting about your wife or husband is just as bad. At the end of the day you decided to have these people apart of your life. So I guess we should just shut talkaboutmarriage.com down then and just repress how we feel. People have told me, "well you should not have had kids" yet when I did not have kids and said "gosh I really don't want kids they said "omg, how could you not want kids, you are not a woman if you don't want kids". Society does this. Why do you see so many women who can't busting the butts to have one. Then on anti-depressants after they do. Its such a cruel world. They don't allow women to have tubal ligation in some states until after they have had 3 kids and are over 25. I know because I was the woman asking for it after my first and was told no.My husband has actually said that a woman who can have kids, but does not is a waste of a woman. Can you believe that? No matter what, people would judge you anyway, if you didn't have kids and they would tell you that you should and that you are wrong if you don't. Being a parent is hard and tiresome and as much as some of these phony parents hate to admit it. Half if not more of all parents would probably kill to be their friends who don't have kids for just one day.


Why in the WORLD would you have 4 kids then? 

Nobody here judges people for having/not having kids....not sure where you got that from. I do think it odd to have so many if you feel as Scannerguard does, or are you of the same belief that you have no say in your reproduction?


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I was thinking the same thing. Crazy to have 4 kids when you don't enjoy them.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Crazy to have 4 kids when you don't enjoy them.


I don't enjoy my kids all the time either. Right now our oldest and us are at odds and I want to kill him. Having said that, if you are already exhausted with so many little ones, why continue to have more back to back. 4 under 4? That makes no sense to me.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> @ Scannerguard. I am the woman version of you. I swear you said what I feel and what I have said to my husband. Have you ever been to that site truemomconfessions.com? While people are here judging you, there are millions of parents who feel this way, but never say anything because they are afraid of being judged quite like others have done here.The internet has now allowed parents to say how they feel anonymously. Its great to have that outlet, most of these feelings are out of frustration and more prevalent during the children's younger years. These feelings usually go away as they become older. My marriage is suffering greatly. We have 4 kids under the age of 4. I know it is not my childrens fault but their existence in our lives has our marriage feeling like it is in a thunderstorm with no ray of sunlight in sight. People hate to admit it, but think about when marriage started to go downhill...Most post on this site inquiring about help in a marriage start with "the first (how ever many years) were great then, after my wife had our son/daughter.... Then they talk about the downfall. If parents especially mothers can not vent about parenting and be honest about their feelings you will see even more parents depressed than you see now. Its so hard now because back then kids were raised by everybody in the community and they were all on the same page. Now we do it alone. There is no outlet. Moms and Dads can't express their feelings, they can't say "i love my kids, but I hate being their parent" they can't say "i'm so tired of my kids right now, i need to be away from them". No, not without catching a whole lot of flack for being the world's worst parent for being completely exhausted by your kids. Should parents have to spend the next 18-20 years repressing these feelings? I'm not saying they should say these to their kids, but to have that support system is so essential right now and we shouldn't harp down on each other. That's almost like a husband and/or wife needing to vent about their spouse but not being able to. Gawd, could you imagine? If venting about being a parent is bad, then venting about your wife or husband is just as bad. At the end of the day you decided to have these people apart of your life. So I guess we should just shut talkaboutmarriage.com down then and just repress how we feel. People have told me, "well you should not have had kids" yet when I did not have kids and said "gosh I really don't want kids they said "omg, how could you not want kids, you are not a woman if you don't want kids". Society does this. Why do you see so many women who can't busting the butts to have one. Then on anti-depressants after they do. Its such a cruel world. They don't allow women to have tubal ligation in some states until after they have had 3 kids and are over 25. I know because I was the woman asking for it after my first and was told no.My husband has actually said that a woman who can have kids, but does not is a waste of a woman. Can you believe that? No matter what, people would judge you anyway, if you didn't have kids and they would tell you that you should and that you are wrong if you don't. Being a parent is hard and tiresome and as much as some of these phony parents hate to admit it. Half if not more of all parents would probably kill to be their friends who don't have kids for just one day.


Ok, I get what you say when you talk about time away. There is not a parent alive that doesn't need a day or two too themselves. It is hard as hell. 

Unless you had multiples then how the hell can you possibly have 4 children in 4 years and act as if it is in some way not your fault? You didn't take some type of hint that it wasn't easy after the first? Maybe the second? For christ's sake not even the third? Appearently it doesn't hurt your marriage enough to stop you from having sex as soon as you are able too after giving birth.

Most of the attacks on Scan where due to the fact that he was trying to say he had no choice. I have 5 children, 2 by marriage and I am biological father of 3 of them. I would not have a single one, weather planned or not if not for the chioces myself and my wife made. I didn't rape her nor her me. We made the choice not to use birth control and so did 99% of all other parents. If you where not forced to have sex then it was YOUR chioce to have children.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

uphillbattle said:


> Ok, I get what you say when you talk about time away. There is not a parent alive that doesn't need a day or two too themselves. It is hard as hell.
> 
> Unless you had multiples then how the hell can you possibly have 4 children in 4 years and act as if it is in some way not your fault? You didn't take some type of hint that it wasn't easy after the first? Maybe the second? For christ's sake not even the third? Appearently it doesn't hurt your marriage enough to stop you from having sex as soon as you are able too after giving birth.
> 
> Most of the attacks on Scan where due to the fact that he was trying to say he had no choice. I have 5 children, 2 by marriage and I am biological father of 3 of them. I would not have a single one, weather planned or not if not for the chioces myself and my wife made. I didn't rape her nor her me. We made the choice not to use birth control and so did 99% of all other parents. If you where not forced to have sex then it was YOUR chioce to have children.


TELL us how you really feel.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

chillymorn said:


> TELL us how you really feel.


He was.  His point being nobody is a victim here. We ALL have choices. Some of us regret that choice but the fact remains we made it.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> TELL us how you really feel.


:smthumbup: I feel pretty, oh so pretty.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I have no intention of playing the victim card, if that's how I came across. I guess the "draftee" thing is what gets you going on that.

I was more or less using that analogy (which I think is good, not perfect) to illustrate that there are people who look at war/armed services differently.

No, I made a choice/conceded and I accept responsibility.

Personally, I think all the parents here who say they love it so much, 95% of the time, yadda, yadda -

You're all overcompensating.

I think I struck a nerve and you are all not Mother Cabrini's you are holding yourselves out to be.

In fact, I venture to guess that TiredSAHM and Scannerguard are actually BETTER parents than all of you overcompensators. I imagine your kids are ignored and not tended to and that's why you all have adapted towards overcompensating and exhibiting cognitive dissonance.

(NO, I don't really beleive this, but I thought I would just throw some silly psychobabble back your way - ooohhh. . .. how's this - you are all in denial. That's always a good one)


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

uphillbattle said:


> :smthumbup: I feel pretty, oh so pretty.


nice LOL


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> He was.  His point being nobody is a victim here. We ALL have choices. Some of us regret that choice but the fact remains we made it.


really I coldn't tell from all the same post over and over and over


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

BTW. . .I didn't come on here posting/complaining about this and neither did TiredSAHM.

Once again, ONCE AGAIN, I was directly asked and I directly responded. I just decided to seperate it out of the other topic out of politeness to the OP. I am not sure why everyone's undies is in a bunch.

What is really bothering you? *What are you all so insecure about? *C'mon, you can tell ol' Scannerguard.

C'mon lay back on my recumbent couch whilst I puff a tobacco pipe and take notes and get to the roots of your insecurities.

Don't ask if you don't want to hear the answer.

Your rape analogy/explanation is silly.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*In German accent* (Freud was German no?)

"As you can see, dees is a strong case of cognitive dissonance, with deee posters attacking deee Scannerguard with anger, embarrassment, and dread at his ideas and values.

It dees my conclusion that the male posters need to be deeesmissed, while the female posters should explore perhaps their surpressed sexual arousal they have for Scannerguard. . .dey are obviously revolted, but curious at the same time.

This shall warrant lots of private sessions and treatment for female hysteria."


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

You did complain. You said you got drafted in to it but that isn't the case at all. You enlisted. 3 times. Tired enlisted 4 times and counting. I just don't understand you two at all. I am not saying by any means that parenting is all roses. Hardly. It is tough and often thankless. After all you do for them, some turn out okay and others end up hating you. What I cannot fathom is if you felt this way, why have 3 or in Tired's case, 4?! Does this make any sense? 
Let's say I knew dogs were really messy, expensive, tough, difficult to train after I get one, why on Earth would I knowingly bring on 2 or 3 more and then complain about my plight?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> @ Scannerguard. I am the woman version of you. I swear you said what I feel and what I have said to my husband. Have you ever been to that site truemomconfessions.com? While people are here judging you, there are millions of parents who feel this way, but never say anything because they are afraid of being judged quite like others have done here.The internet has now allowed parents to say how they feel anonymously. Its great to have that outlet, most of these feelings are out of frustration and more prevalent during the children's younger years. These feelings usually go away as they become older. My marriage is suffering greatly. We have 4 kids under the age of 4. I know it is not my childrens fault but their existence in our lives has our marriage feeling like it is in a thunderstorm with no ray of sunlight in sight. People hate to admit it, but think about when marriage started to go downhill...Most post on this site inquiring about help in a marriage start with "the first (how ever many years) were great then, after my wife had our son/daughter.... Then they talk about the downfall. If parents especially mothers can not vent about parenting and be honest about their feelings you will see even more parents depressed than you see now. Its so hard now because back then kids were raised by everybody in the community and they were all on the same page. Now we do it alone. There is no outlet. Moms and Dads can't express their feelings, they can't say "i love my kids, but I hate being their parent" they can't say "i'm so tired of my kids right now, i need to be away from them". No, not without catching a whole lot of flack for being the world's worst parent for being completely exhausted by your kids. Should parents have to spend the next 18-20 years repressing these feelings? I'm not saying they should say these to their kids, but to have that support system is so essential right now and we shouldn't harp down on each other. That's almost like a husband and/or wife needing to vent about their spouse but not being able to. Gawd, could you imagine? If venting about being a parent is bad, then venting about your wife or husband is just as bad. At the end of the day you decided to have these people apart of your life. So I guess we should just shut talkaboutmarriage.com down then and just repress how we feel. People have told me, "well you should not have had kids" yet when I did not have kids and said "gosh I really don't want kids they said "omg, how could you not want kids, you are not a woman if you don't want kids". Society does this. Why do you see so many women who can't busting the butts to have one. Then on anti-depressants after they do. Its such a cruel world. They don't allow women to have tubal ligation in some states until after they have had 3 kids and are over 25. I know because I was the woman asking for it after my first and was told no.My husband has actually said that a woman who can have kids, but does not is a waste of a woman. Can you believe that? No matter what, people would judge you anyway, if you didn't have kids and they would tell you that you should and that you are wrong if you don't. Being a parent is hard and tiresome and as much as some of these phony parents hate to admit it. Half if not more of all parents would probably kill to be their friends who don't have kids for just one day.


I really didn't read this whole post before , I just skimmed quickly ---did you really have 4 kids in 4 yrs? Or was that a typo? One thing I will teach my own kids is to do what will make them happy, not to conform to what other people try to push on us, doesn't matter what society's norms are, there is enough variety in this world to meet up with others with the same wants & desires. If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy, I find this to be very true. 

Sounds like you choose a bad man -he SHAMED you into having children -the whole "waste of a woman" comment. 

Are you getting help with your children? Some outside assistence to help with the stress, some coping skills? if you live in the US, there are programs to come in your home & do just this....a lady in my church has people come in her home, she has 4, I agree with the others, if children will depress, by all means, get on birth control... our children are dying inside due to feeling they are not wanted. This breeds hopelessness in them. 

Change your course. 

I had 4 under the age of 7 at one time, but I was mega freaking happy, in fact I was the most pissed off when I coudln't have them! That is when I was the basketcase. Even my friends remember how awful I was. 

Not all parents are Phoney, I truly truly truly adore my children, they are the light of my life. Sure I get mad and yell too, but Never never never have I ever had a regret having them.... I consider them all GIFTS. 

I had a teacher call me after school a month ago -just to tell me how impressed she is with my 14yr old son -just his positive attitude , how he handles the kids in class, she told me she doesn't make many calls like this, but she wanted to reach out to me & let me know what a great son we have raised. I was deely touched by that. (Now the last 2 calls I got from Teachers were NOT good) but this one was delightful. 

A few days before Christmas, my 2 oldest organized their own Christmas Caroling group, printed the song sheets up, picked up 10 others, went door to door in town singing & bringing cheer , local shops and hit us last, I am just so proud of them, how they are turning out. And I know this sounds like bragging, but ...they terribly ENRICH our lives. 

Just another side of the coin.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Realbrighteyes,

I have nothing to say other than you are projecting. I mean, my post was certainly complaining about parenting. . .but you are hung up on my analogy and the drafting.

That's why it's an analogy. . .none of them are ever perfect. I was simply making hte point that some soldiers enjoy the army and other want to get out as soon as they got in. Yes, I enlisted. I employ analogies to communicate a point and I think I succeeded. If you are going to dissect this analogy for flaws, have at it.

SA,

I appreciate your positive take. It's okay to bring them to this thread. You know. . .I am kind of glad I hooked up with this woman today regarding this subject. She did kind of make me see the part I do like about being a father (teaching) and we are really hitting it off (been chatting tonight).

And I get SAHM being pressured.

(and I thought the comment about no kids being a waste of a woman awful too - and you all know my position on women and kids leans traditionalist)

I mean, it's not like anyone here ever tried a beer, smoked pot, or joined a church because of pressure from family, friends, or loved ones.

I mean, right, SA? It's not like you were ever a member of a church for perhaps the wrong reasons and did and beleived things that perhaps weren't true to your heart?

Nope. . . everyone here is decisive and peer pressure, never caved in.

Uh, huh. And I'm Sigmund Freud.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Scannerguard said:


> SA,
> 
> I appreciate your positive take. It's okay to bring them to this thread. You know. . .I am kind of glad I hooked up with this woman today regarding this subject. *She did kind of make me see the part I do like about being a father (teaching) and we are really hitting it off (been chatting tonight*)


 Good that you had that talk... and DO concentrate on what you are good at with them, what you truly enjoy.... they will remember you for these things. Nothing wrong with being humble and saying "Daddy sucks" at some of these other things, it just ain't your cup of java. 

We all could list a bunch of things we are not as good at in comparison to other parents..... For me -where I feel I outshine alot of other Moms is....in how I communicate with my kids. That is what I am good at, I enjoy... they feel the freedom to come to me with anything/everything... they know we will listen, we argue too but we TALK, REALLY talk....an openness there.....even thier friends talk to me telling me they can't talk to their parents like that. BUT ya know....those moms are better cooks-got the whole family at the dinner table with a 3 course meat at 5 pm, are more diligent about what they watch on tv, more involved in their education, run them around to every ball game, spend alot of time playing board games .... I can't do all of that , it would stress the life out of me. 
*
We all have something valuable to offer our kids, that they will carry with them*. 



> I mean, it's not like anyone here ever tried a beer, smoked pot, or joined a church because of pressure from family, friends, or loved ones.


 I've never had a beer -Had my 1st "screwdriver" on New Years Eve though... You know what I mean.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Well, the point on the beer, pot, and church (opiate of the masses) is we all do things we don't want to do for people we love.

I don't judge SAHM for having 4 kids in 4 years if her husband was saying he wanted them like others here are. 

I mean, criminey, it's her husband for crying out loud. . .she probably wanted to please him, which is only natural, and then bam, you are hit with reality.

Just like the recruiter at the army said, "Oh yeah, if you enlist, Scannerguard. . .you'll be flying F-16 fighter planes. Yeah, sign here. . .that's it. . .and this form. . .and this form. . .okay, here's your rifle. Now stand your post, private."

Yeah, I know what you mean by the screwdriver. . .if only I was so acrobatic.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Scanner,
I enlisted as well. Got knocked up young and decided to have my son. I had choices and I made mine. 
You couldn't be further from the truth about me projecting. If you read what I posted a month ago in the Ladies forum, you would realize that for me being a mother wasn't love at first sight at all and I HATED my child. I literally abandoned my child to my husband for 4 days as I drove and drove as far away from them as possible. I had a come to Jesus moment if you will and realized that my son deserved to have a mother who was there for him as mine was too busy with social status to care about raising me or my sister. I drove back and have never looked back.
I am the last person to tell anybody that parenting is magical and awesome. It is difficult, exhausting, expensive and oftentimes painful. What are the trade offs though? I simply cannot imagine my life without my sons. I would cut out my heart for them if they needed it to spend 5 more minutes on this Earth. They ARE the love of my life. Always and forever.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Scanner, 

What bugs me about your take on this is your use of what you call ‘traditional’. So you want women to return to being SAHM’s so that you don’t have to help take care of the house or take care of children. You don’t like to do those things. So you want someone else to do them. So you want to put women back into the box so that they have no choices. You know what… most women do not like doing housework and chores.. Even a lot of child care is not fun.. It’s work. This is why well to do families hire house keepers and nannies… because life’s a lot more fun when we don’t have to do the chores.

You want choices. You want to choose to not do house work and childcare. But you don’t want to give women (or your wife) the choice to say no. Or the choice to have a career and the two of you share the chores and the child care. And then you wrap this in the flag of ‘traditional family values’…. As though the 1950’s TV family is really the only type of family that ever existed until that nasty thing called the feminist movement.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Scanner,
> 
> What bugs me about your take on this is your use of what you call ‘traditional’. So you want women to return to being SAHM’s so that you don’t have to help take care of the house or take care of children. You don’t like to do those things. So you want someone else to do them. So you want to put women back into the box so that they have no choices. You know what… most women do not like doing housework and chores.. Even a lot of child care is not fun.. It’s work. This is why well to do families hire house keepers and nannies… because life’s a lot more fun when we don’t have to do the chores.
> 
> You want choices. You want to choose to not do house work and childcare. But you don’t want to give women (or your wife) the choice to say no. Or the choice to have a career and the two of you share the chores and the child care. And then you wrap this in the flag of ‘traditional family values’…. As though the 1950’s TV family is really the only type of family that ever existed until that nasty thing called the feminist movement.



It's unfair to jump on Scannerguard or anyone else who chooses the "traditional" family roles. Just as women have a right to choose whether they work outside the home or be SAHMs, Scanner has a right to want to go out to work, come home and play with and teach his kids while his wife stays home and takes care of the house and kids.

Everyone has a right to choose how they want to live their life. I don't know all of Scanner's story, but what I'm getting from his posts is he feel's like he was "drafted" because he did choose to have kids, but he wasn't prepared to do both traditional father and traditional mother roles in raising them.

He already said he loves them dearly and takes care of them. He enjoys teaching them. That doesn't sound like a bad father to me.

How is it ok for a woman to say they work because they'd go insane being home with the kids all day, but not ok for a man to express that he finds taking care of the kids a chore?


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Scanner,
> 
> What bugs me about your take on this is your use of what you call ‘traditional’. So you want women to return to being SAHM’s so that you don’t have to help take care of the house or take care of children. You don’t like to do those things. So you want someone else to do them. So you want to put women back into the box so that they have no choices. You know what… most women do not like doing housework and chores.. Even a lot of child care is not fun.. It’s work. This is why well to do families hire house keepers and nannies… because life’s a lot more fun when we don’t have to do the chores.
> 
> You want choices. You want to choose to not do house work and childcare. But you don’t want to give women (or your wife) the choice to say no. Or the choice to have a career and the two of you share the chores and the child care. And then you wrap this in the flag of ‘traditional family values’…. As though the 1950’s TV family is really the only type of family that ever existed until that nasty thing called the feminist movement.


:iagree:
Precisely right. This whole thread went off the rails anyway about 2 pages ago when an incredibly suspect Poster named "tiredwife&sahm" suddenly signed up and came to Scannerguard's defense with 2 posts and hasn't returned since to any other part of the forum or other discussions.

This has essentially become Scanner just trying to justify his skewed disposition on _"why can't men just impregnate the world and remove themselves from the responsibility that follows?"_


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Bottled Up said:


> :iagree:
> Precisely right. This whole thread went off the rails anyway about 2 pages ago when an incredibly suspect Poster named "tiredwife&sahm" suddenly signed up and came to Scannerguard's defense with 2 posts and hasn't returned since to any other part of the forum or other discussions.
> 
> This has essentially become Scanner just trying to justify his skewed disposition on _"why can't men just impregnate the world and remove themselves from the responsibility that follows?"_


really thats what you got out of his post?

you must be reading between the lines. He seems to be a responsible parent to me.


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## bubbly girl (Oct 11, 2011)

Bottled Up said:


> :iagree:
> Precisely right. This whole thread went off the rails anyway about 2 pages ago when an incredibly suspect Poster named "tiredwife&sahm" suddenly signed up and came to Scannerguard's defense with 2 posts and hasn't returned since to any other part of the forum or other discussions.
> 
> *This has essentially become Scanner just trying to justify his skewed disposition on "why can't men just impregnate the world and remove themselves from the responsibility that follows?"*




He hasn't removed himself from any type of responsibility. He may not enjoy all the responsibility but he does what he needs to do. HUGE difference.


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## Bottled Up (Nov 12, 2011)

chillymorn said:


> really thats what you got out of his post?
> 
> you must be reading between the lines. He seems to be a responsible parent to me.


No, I'm not questioning his parenting abilities, it sounds like he's doing the work _he should be doing_. I'm questioning his tone of resentment for having to take on all this additional responsibility "that a man shouldn't have to do" because of his divorce situation. And his tone of "I didn't ask for this" and how it's morphed into traditional roles of family requiring women to do it all, etc.

I'm sure he's a responsible parent, but his view on "what should be" is very out of touch with the time and place to which we now live. It's ok for a family to live in those old traditional roles if that's what the wife and husband both agree to, but it's NOT ok to expect that women should be doing more or certain chores over men just because it used to be that way.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Bottled Up said:


> No, I'm not questioning his parenting abilities, it sounds like he's doing the work _he should be doing_. I'm questioning his tone of resentment for having to take on all this additional responsibility "that a man shouldn't have to do" because of his divorce situation. And his tone of "I didn't ask for this" and how it's morphed into traditional roles of family requiring women to do it all, etc.
> 
> I'm sure he's a responsible parent, but his view on "what should be" is very out of touch with the time and place to which we now live. It's ok for a family to live in those old traditional roles if that's what the wife and husband both agree to, but it's NOT ok to expect that women should be doing more or certain chores over men just because it used to be that way.


its just venting. get over it.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

> its just venting. get over it.


Not even.

She should try going back and reading my posts with this filter:

MATTER OF FACT REPLY TO A QUESTION FILTER

not this filter:

I AM COMPLAINING AND WHINING FILTER

What's the use in complaining?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

bubbly girl said:


> It's unfair to jump on Scannerguard or anyone else who chooses the "traditional" family roles. Just as women have a right to choose whether they work outside the home or be SAHMs, Scanner has a right to want to go out to work, come home and play with and teach his kids while his wife stays home and takes care of the house and kids.
> 
> Everyone has a right to choose how they want to live their life. I don't know all of Scanner's story, but what I'm getting from his posts is he feel's like he was "drafted" because he did choose to have kids, but he wasn't prepared to do both traditional father and traditional mother roles in raising them.
> 
> ...


I have no problem with Scanner and his wife choosing traditional family roles. I have a problem with his remarks about wanting society to return to traditional family roles.. meaning he would have a choice but women would not.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

And yes, the thread went postal when TiredSAHM stepped forward and validated what I said.

In a way, despite her resistance to traditional mom roles, we are kind of kindred souls. I do think if a woman goes through what she does, and it's so important, and stays at home, has good outcomes with kids, no obesity, good grades, a well run house, she deserves some kind of recognition beyond just:

"Oh that's sweet. Ain't she a good mommy?"

Enter the MOM BILL.

Everyone in my silly thread said, "Gee, how you going to pay for it?"

Well, with taxes of course. 

As childhood obesity drops, healthcare premiums should drop and society strengthens. . .so when you vote for the Ticket Scannerguard/Annagarrett, and vote for strengthening marriage and the family, you would be voting for a tax on these rich HMO's who declare record profits every year and don't pay taxes.

Who else you going to vote for? Santorum? Get real. 

Of course, you would vote for me and my interesting, progressive ideas and positions.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

I will now accept my round of thunderous applause.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Ha, ha, I ask you to think, oh ye righteous feminists of TAM. . .are you *really* representing women like you think you are?

What are YOU so insecure about?

Could it be that Scannerguard represents (politically) a segment of women silently suffering more than you do?

Sure, if you are a woman wanting to go be a MD, ESQ or CPA at age 25 and have kids like Jennifer Aniston at age 40 or be an Octo-Mom, than I am not your guy. Vote for Gloria Steinam or some retro-figure like that.

If however, you are a female wanting to have kids at age 25, think that that makes biological and cultural sense, and then go be a MD, ESQ, or CPA at age 40, then I am your man. 

Scannerguard/Annagarret is your ticket.

(and I made that speech all without a teleprompter; will someone please post a waving American Flag behind me?)


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

About a month or so ago there was a thread in the Ladies Lounge that had to do with our feelings about motherhood. I had a response in there about my conflicted feelings. As in, I never, ever had dreams about getting married or becoming a mother. Not sure what I really wanted - I think maybe to be like Peter Pan and never grow up. 

It didn't work out that way. It did take 6 years of being married before it felt like we should tackle parenthood. I remember that we got pregnant the first month - I was shocked. When I found out I started crying, and not in a good way. I was scared totally spitless.

There's nothing wrong with going in to a huge, life-changing situation and being ... apprehensive ... about it. I certainly was. Nothing wrong to continue to feel that way at various points after that either - I still certainly do.

I now have what I call the "Double B's". I have two Boys, and they bring Double B's - blessings and burdens - to my life. 

I love them with all my heart and they have enriched my life in ways that I would not have dreamed possible. But, it's not been a bed of roses either.

I know that I certainly have not wanted the traditional mom route either - I don't like wiping snotty noses or changing dirty diapers or cleaning up vomit any more than the next person.  When I had my first I knew next to nothing about babies. I was the youngest child and the only girl in a house full of boys.

But, you know - those things just come with life. You have to wipe your own nose and your own bum and mostly clean up your own bodily messes, so wiping somebody else's nose or bum who is helpless is not a big deal.

My own comment, Scanner, about your situation is that 'nurturing' is defined as 'To care for and encourage the growth or development of'. As such, it is not something that is gender-specific. It is something that is a trait of humanity.

And there are a lot of ways that nurturing can take place. No two moms do it alike, and neither do no two dads. And just because you're a dad and you nurture your sons in a way that's different than their mom does, it doesn't mean that it isn't nurturing. Hey, teaching a kid to be a good sport, to take care of their body, to learn how to drive, to properly handle a firearm, etc. - I still consider those nurturing. 

Best wishes.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Yeah, I guess I defined "Nuturey things" to me the cooking, cleaning, kissing boo-boos, wiping snotty noses, getting them dressed, diapers, etc. . .I don't like that aspect of modern day fathering. And mothers apparently don't like that aspect either if you were to poll them.

I like teaching them about values, skills, etc. I just finished Crimson Tide with my oldest yesterday and talked about leadership, authority and rank and whether he would have followed the XO in that mutiny or followed the captain.

He answered the XO (Denzel Washington) and I said, "Really? You think you would?"

I love to see a flash of comprehension and instant self-analysis in that kind of situation.

I also think humor is the best coping mechanism and I would suggest it to TiredSAHM if she's taking unsolicited advice.

Because much of parenting sucks, I don't know where I would be without humor.

For instance. . .when my kids ask, "Dad. . .why is there a poster of Rita Hayworth on the wall?". . . I just say cryptically:

"Well, because hope is a powerful thing, maybe the best of things. . ."


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> For instance. . .when my kids ask, "Dad. . .why is there a poster of Rita Hayworth on the wall?". . . I just say cryptically:
> 
> "Well, because hope is a powerful thing, maybe the best of things. . ."


Gottla love the Andy Dufrense references.:smthumbup:


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

Scannerguard said:


> For instance. . .when my kids ask, "Dad. . .why is there a poster of Rita Hayworth on the wall?". . . I just say cryptically:
> 
> "Well, because hope is a powerful thing, maybe the best of things. . ."


So should they be worried when you replace it with a poster of Raquel Welch?


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

@Therealbrighteyes

I'm curious...why do you spend so much time bashing people for how THEY feel? I notice you put so much emphasis into trying to make someone feel like you. It's beyond me how another person is upset because someone else feels differently than they do. Wait, actually I totally get it, puts me in the mind of those people who protest in front of funerals because the deceased was living a lifestyle they didn't agree with. I can't believe people have that much time to do that. You know, I never said that having my children wasn't my fault. Yes, I had 4 kids in 4 years and it is hard. I'm not going to retract what I said. You don't know me or my life and I don't have to explain anything to you or anyone else who chimed in. My post clearly started with @ Scanner which means I was talking directly to him. How can someone not get that? I agree with Scanner and some of his frustration. Does it mean that I don't love my children? No, it means that right now especially at their age life feels like it sucks. My children have no idea because I don't vent to them. I vent to my husband (even though he does not listen). I like most women tend to keep these feelings to myself especially to avoid people like yourself as your kind tend to believe that women should never ever ever ever feel like that even for one second or the world is ending.Don't worry my husband on the other hand enjoys them so much which he should since he doesn't have to deal with the dirt and grime of it all. Kids are wonderful when all you do is play with them and then leave the other parent to deal with the real priorities. Anyway, how what I feel and what I said to someone that is not yourself affects you boggles my mind


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

tiredwife&sahm said:


> @Therealbrighteyes
> 
> I'm curious...why do you spend so much time bashing people for how THEY feel? I notice you put so much emphasis into trying to make someone feel like you. It's beyond me how another person is upset because someone else feels differently than they do. Wait, actually I totally get it, puts me in the mind of those people who protest in front of funerals because the deceased was living a lifestyle they didn't agree with. I can't believe people have that much time to do that. You know, I never said that having my children wasn't my fault. Yes, I had 4 kids in 4 years and it is hard. I'm not going to retract what I said. You don't know me or my life and I don't have to explain anything to you or anyone else who chimed in. My post clearly started with @ Scanner which means I was talking directly to him. How can someone not get that? I agree with Scanner and some of his frustration. Does it mean that I don't love my children? No, it means that right now especially at their age life feels like it sucks. My children have no idea because I don't vent to them. I vent to my husband (even though he does not listen). I like most women tend to keep these feelings to myself especially to avoid people like yourself as your kind tend to believe that women should never ever ever ever feel like that even for one second or the world is ending.Don't worry my husband on the other hand enjoys them so much which he should since he doesn't have to deal with the dirt and grime of it all. Kids are wonderful when all you do is play with them and then leave the other parent to deal with the real priorities. Anyway, how what I feel and what I said to someone that is not yourself affects you boggles my mind


Whaaaat?! At what point did I bash you? I agreed with you and that parenting is thankless and tough. 
Having said that, I think you are insane. If you read anything out of what I said, you wouldn't be saying what you did.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Tired,
Since you dragged me in to this with your attack, your excuse for birth control is crap. You claim that you cannot get a tubal due to your age is complete and utter bull$hit. I had two kids at age 26 and 3 out of 3 doctors said a tubal would be fine. My husband decided to get a vasectomy. 4 kids in 4 years and no doctor in your area would operate on you? BULL$HIT. 
So according to you you just had to have kids. 4 under 4. Amazing. Have you heard of the pill, Depo Provera, IUD, dermal implant, the sponge, diaphram, condoms, spermicide, pulling out, vasectomy and if all those fail STOP [email protected]?

I never ONCE attacked you and even posted about me abandoning my own child. Did you bother to read that or were you so hell bent on attacking me regardless. I questioned why have so many kids in such a short period of time. I didn't lash out at you and I didn't do anything to deserve your reply.

You deserve mine however. You are NOT a victim. You made a choice 4 TIMES and I guess it is somebody elses fault. Goodbye, urchin.


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## tiredwife&sahm (Jan 4, 2012)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You did complain. You said you got drafted in to it but that isn't the case at all. You enlisted. 3 times. Tired enlisted 4 times and counting. I just don't understand you two at all. I am not saying by any means that parenting is all roses. Hardly. It is tough and often thankless. After all you do for them, some turn out okay and others end up hating you. What I cannot fathom is if you felt this way, why have 3 or in Tired's case, 4?! Does this make any sense?
> Let's say I knew dogs were really messy, expensive, tough, difficult to train after I get one, why on Earth would I knowingly bring on 2 or 3 more and then complain about my plight?


^ This and maybe you should go and read the other two post, not the one where you acted like you agreed. Being condescending is not nice. Plenty of people many who are members of this site are doing something that doesn't make sense like staying in a sexless marriage or putting up with things they don't want to. Its just how life works sometimes. Love does conquer all after all. Many people do what they do for that very reason. I had 4 kids because I loved my husband, I did not want him to leave me, he wanted kids so out of love 4 times I gave birth and he is happy. He is all I have known and been with since I was 17. I am not insane at all, anyway I consider myself done responding to you, again my first post was not for you....


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Say "HI" to your alter ego....Scanner. The person who cannot stay with a thought, a quip or a sense. His rants reminds me of yours. Moving from overwhelmed by children to a sexless marriage....priceless. Clearly you had sex like the day your baby was born and got knocked up again. Yup, say high to the resident troll Scanner.


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

No, TheRealBrightEyes,

You are losing the debate and you are crying foul.

She is reinterating what I said before. . .sometiems, esp. at TiredSAHM's age, you do things to please other people, in this case her husband. It's natural to be influenced in action by the ones you love and are supposed to love you.

If you have never done things to please other people, never had a sense of self-sacrifice, well, then I question YOU, TheRealBrightEyes.

I am not sure you ARE human and perhaps you are a Troll by genes.

She F**ked and had kids to make her husband happy and now she's is frustrated, tired, and unhappy.

As her kids get older, she'll probably, like me, soften her position, but she was just sharing how she felt with me.

Back off and take some Black Cohosh root, Therealbrighteyes.


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## whynotme (May 18, 2010)

Hi Scannerguard,

I think you are brave to put your feelings about not really wanting to be a father out there. I'm sure you wouldn't have done so if you weren't prepared to get flamed. I don't think either of my parents wanted to marry each other or be parents. When I asked them, they both kind of acted like they didn't have anything better to do, so they got married and had two kids together.

Maybe you will like your kids better when they are adults and you don't have so much responsibility on your shoulders. I think that is the case for my father. He is pushing 60 now and he likes having his kids and grandkids around him. Some people just don't like raising kids, but after it's all said and done they are glad they had them.

So just look at it from that perspective when things get hard. But don't ever let your kids know how you really feel. Hide it as best you can. If they know you don't really like being a dad you will hurt them. My dad complained about being a dad when we were growing up...he was very vocal about it. It took a long time for me to forgive him for that. So feel how you feel, but just keep it away from your kids as best you can.

Good Luck


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

Stop.

Read.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/2117-forum-rules-please-read-first.html

Don't like a thread? Don't post to it.

Don't like a response? Don't respond back.

Thread closed.


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