# My husband is a mess - don't know whether to leave



## rocket (May 22, 2012)

I truly don't think my husband on 1 1/2 years cares about me. I think he cares only for himself and his mother. 

His good qualities: great sex, and when we get along, we get along great. 

His bad qualities: he doesn't care about me as a person, he criticizes and judges me on a constant basis, he says things that are hurtful. When he does these things, he refuses to apologize. In fact, he doesn't believe in apologizing. I don't get that. He is also hypocritical in that he is a Christian (forgiveness, right?). Another problem is his pride - he is so prideful he can never admit he's ever wrong. He's right about everything. He will say something mean, then won't talk to me for days until I make up with him. He claims to have no feelings, and tells me he will never be able to care about me in the way I need. He escalates arguments and is quick to get extremely angry. He doesn't know the meaning of marriage (I had to come up with definitions for him). He won't acknowledge the existence of my two 20-something daughters. He refuses to share money, ownership of our house, or anything really. He is unable to be honest with himself - this is a big problem for me. He really doesn't know how he's acting. He thinks he's perfect and likes himself just fine.

I feel like he just wants me for sex and because I can cook. I have so much more to offer and he doesn't appreciate me at all. I made a vow to stay with him, so I'm trying to figure this out.

We've seen a few counselors but he only shows them a certain side of him, not even trying to work on himself (remember, he's "perfect").

I'm in the process of working on myself, and not trying to change him.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.


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## monicagrace27 (Apr 3, 2012)

Wow, this sounds like a terrible situation to be in. I may not be the most qualified as for giving advice on this, but him telling you that he can not care for you in the way that you need makes it sound like he is not even willing to work on himself and your marriage to start treating you better. Also, if he is saying things that are hurtful and you are the one who ends up fixing things after, you may become resentful towards him if this continues. Has he been this way for the whole marriage, or did it randomly start at some point?

As far as doing things to make the marriage work goes, counseling seems like the best option. I realize that you said that you have tried it becore, but perhaps IC for him for a couple months would be beneficial before marriage counseling so that he will be able to recognize his flaws and work on his own issues such as his problem of becoming angry quickly before you continue on to marriage counseling. Personally, I think that if he cannot first recognize his own problems, then he will continue to blame things on you and that is something that he simply cannot do if your marriage is to work.


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## eowyn (Mar 22, 2012)

rocket said:


> He will say something mean, then won't talk to me for days until I make up with him


What is your typical reaction to your husband's anger, lack of understanding etc? I would suggest it is important to stay strong, hold your ground and not appear weak in front of your husband. It will only feed his negative behavior. For example, in the above scenario if you are not at fault, you should not be the one apologizing or trying to make up. 

You can also record one of his angry outburst and make him listen to how it feels to hear. Or briefly treat him the way he treats you (shout at him or something...) and then tell him "this is how you constantly talk to me, and it doesn't feel good to be on the listening side". These are just some random ideas, apply them if they make sense to you and your situation. I am assuming he doesn't physically abuse you?

What are your ages? Did you date your husband before you got married? If so, for how long? Did his behavior change after marriage?


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

Ooops. I had started a response and changed pages, and it got lost.

I think this sounds familiar, a lot of the OP's criticisms of her husband sound like criticisms my wife used to have of me. So I'll tell my story on the assumption it might be relevant.

My wife (from my perspective) used to start fights with me a lot. (From her perspective, she didn't notice herself starting fights - she noticed my angry reaction, and perceived that as the start of the fight). It's easy to conclude logically that one of our perceptions was wrong. Maybe both are wrong.

Looking at those situations retrospectively, another perspective would be that my wife would start by expressing a frustration. I responded as if it was the start of a debate, by either defending myself or explaining the errors in my wife's position.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time dwelling on the specifics or details. That should be enough of a broad overview of how things typically played out for it to be clear where the breakdown in the relationship was occuring.

Here's how I fixed it. One night after my wife fell asleep (see, I was motivated to try to win her back. What you described was your perception. It was probably my wife's perception. That doesn't mean it was a correct understanding of how I felt about her. My wife was going to leave me. I wanted her back. I wanted to be right for her.) I ran a search for "why is my wife so angry" or something like that. I found a blog post, and the key bit was that it told me to say the following the next time my wife is angry:

Thank you, sweetheart, for telling me what is in the depths of your heart. I relish and appreciate openness and emotional intimacy with you. I'm not very good at it, but I intend to get better. In the meantime, if I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same way you do. You have good reasons to be angry."

I printed this out and taped it to the ceiling over the couch where we usually sit.

The phrase really spoke to me because it made sense that I needed to say that to her, to validate that she had a reason to be upset and instead of trying to debate that - I needed to let her know it was okay to be upset and she mattered enough that I could listen, realize that fault is irrelevant and fixing it was relevant, and listenning was the first step in fixing it (and skipping that step does not fix anything)

My suggestion would be see if you can give him that phrase on a cue card the next time you get angry with him, tell him to read it out loud and say nothing else, look into your eyes, think about it and mean it.

(I guess first I'd also ask if you think that what you described MIGHT be your feelings and the real facts MIGHT be different. For all I know, you might have a window into his mind, you might know he really feels this way and in that case, you might be better leaving. I am guessing the odds are you don't have a window into his mind and the situation might be similar to what mine was.)


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## rocket (May 22, 2012)

Thanks all, for taking the time to respond.

My husband adamantly refuses to see any more counselors. He told me he read some relationship books and that he won't read any more. He has not changed a thing in his behavior since reading those books or seeing the therapists, because I honestly don't think he has enough self-awareness to see how he's doing anything wrong.

Our relationship was pretty good till something bad happened to him at work, and he blamed it on me (classic case of coming home from work and kicking the dog). Then he kept doing it, getting angrier and angrier at me each time something didn't go well in his life, till I started devolving, needing to get medications from a psychiatrist, drinking, then finally separating.

He likes himself just fine, and doesn't feel I'm worth it enough to change a thing.

At this point, I'm going to tell him that if I'm not worth it, then he can start the divorce process.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Your list of good qualities is pretty darn short. 

Do yourself a favor. It doesn't sound like you'd be losing a whole lot if you parted ways.


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## Sanity (Mar 7, 2011)

Sounds like a narsacist. Hate to tell you this but people with this personality disorder are almost impossible to help and rarely change. Get out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Leave him. On your way out the door tell him why you are leaving and make sure he knows it's his fault. He'll either get it then or he never will. Either way, you know how to proceed from his reaction to that.


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## rks1 (Jan 27, 2012)

WillK said:


> Looking at those situations retrospectively, another perspective would be that my wife would start by expressing a frustration. I responded as if it was the start of a debate, by either defending myself or explaining the errors in my wife's position.


This is exactly the kind of problem I've been having with my husband, as we have been married only 6 months now. We get along very well 95% of the time, but the 5% of the time that we argue, he shuts me out and gets defensive and starts to point-by-point break down my argument (rather than listening to what I'm trying to say, which only leaves me MORE upset than when I had started the discussion). It's become such an issue that I have thought very much about leaving him, which I have told him about, despite the fact that we are usually happy together. I really enjoyed reading your post, and I have emailed it to my husband. 

Anyway, sorry to the OP to interrupt this thread, but I just wanted to thank WillK for this.


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## rocket (May 22, 2012)

rks1: If I emailed that post to my husband, it would start a week-long argument. You're lucky if your will read it and do it.

I just read the criteria for a narcissist, and I'm thinking that's what he is. I'm going to give him one more chance to change, then that's it. Good luck everyone, you've all been so helpful.


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## WillK (May 16, 2012)

rks1 said:


> This is exactly the kind of problem I've been having with my husband, as we have been married only 6 months now. We get along very well 95% of the time, but the 5% of the time that we argue, he shuts me out and gets defensive and starts to point-by-point break down my argument (rather than listening to what I'm trying to say, which only leaves me MORE upset than when I had started the discussion). It's become such an issue that I have thought very much about leaving him, which I have told him about, despite the fact that we are usually happy together. I really enjoyed reading your post, and I have emailed it to my husband.
> 
> Anyway, sorry to the OP to interrupt this thread, but I just wanted to thank WillK for this.


Well, you see this highlights a real essential element - see, I wanted to save my marriage... In a huge way, this wasn't my only problem, BUT my bigger problem was a key aspect in why I was able to succeed in saving my marraige. If you see any of my other threads, I discuss the fact that I was being submissive to my wife and that resulted in her losing respect for me. The last correction I needed to make was becoming manly to regain her respect instead of wimpy to lose it. But the advantage I had as a wimpy guy was that I had the ability to get over myself enough to accept that I had flaws that needed correcting.

It is essential to want to save the marriage, and to admit you have flaws that need to be dealt with. I dunno, maybe I'm selling it short and it actually takes a kind of strength to do that. 

I do think this must be a pretty common issue.


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## SabrinaBlue (Apr 18, 2012)

Edit: upon re-reading, it sounds like you overlooked his flaws in order to marry him. I don't think he started withholding money from you overnight ... and the fact that he won't put the house in your name as well means that you two never discussed it (or you did, and you just rolled over and accepted it when he said "no").

I'm with River on this. It seems like you just looked the other way until after the wedding. I would question what led you to do this, to be with this man.


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## completely_lost (May 10, 2012)

I would not walk I would run, dont wait till you've been married for years and wasted your youth with someone who doesn tput you first.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You cannot change another person. All you can change is the way you interact with them .

My advice is to give your marriage a set time frame, like 6 months. If it’s not significantly improved in 6 months it’s time to move on. 

Forget about getting him into counseling. Instead you should go to counseling to better yourself. If he decides to join you as you change, then good your marriage will improve. If he does not respond well to the changes you make in yourself and the way you interact with him then at least you have tried to save your marriage…. It would then be time to move on.

Along with counseling I highly suggest that you read the book Divorce Busting: A Step-by-Step Approach to Making Your Marriage Loving Again by Michele Weiner-Davis.

After that book, look at the books linked to below for building a passionate marriage.

These books coupled with counseling should help you in so many ways.

Why doesn’t your husband acknowledge your daughters? What is his gripe with them? What do you mean when you say he does not acknowledge them? Do you mean he will not have anything at all do to with them? Or does he ignore them when he’s around them? Or does he insist that you have nothing to do with them?

You say that he will not share ownership of the house. How long did he own this house before you married him?

Did you discuss finaces and home ownership with him before you married him?


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## River1977 (Oct 25, 2010)

Willk, it sounds like your situation was defensiveness, and I can see that being a problem with you and your wife. If she expressed a concern, complaint, or frustration and you defensively tried to show her how wrong she was, then she felt minimized and unvalidated. What you learned was to respect her feelings irrespective of how you perceived her complaint. You cannot very well tell a person "You are not offended" when they say "I am offended" because it makes no sense to try controlling a person into feeling the way you say they should. You learned to stop doing that. However, that is not what this OP, Rocket, is complaining about. She is being abused in a whole different kind of way.

Rocket, you can give him all the chances you want. He will never change. He was always the way he is right now, maybe just not as severely and frequently. It was minor enough or seldom enough for you to overlook and not feel all that bad about. People don't suddenly become abusive and don't suddenly become narcissistic. You have told us in your own words that he's been this way all the long, yet forgot about all the other things that didn't seem to bother you all that much until that fretful and fateful day he came home from work. You are anchored in that day because he became the worst he'd been before. His behavior in the way he treated you was much less acceptable and much more hurtful than all the other things you didn't like about him. For example, he didn't suddenly stop sharing his money. He never did share his money, but you accepted that for some reason. He never did acknowledge your daughters, but you accepted that also. The unChristian-like things he did never bothered you, but he was a Christian when you met him and did things unbecoming a Christian. And all the other things (judgments and criticisms) that gave you a twinge, but you were eager to please him and thought you would just try harder.

So, that day he came home from work was not the beginning of the problem. It was more likely the beginning of the extreme severity. This is very common with abusive men, in that he didn't criticize you or say hurtful things when you met him. He gradually revealed his true self to hook you in until the point came that he didn't feel it necessary to hold back any longer. And, if you tell me your husband is an engineer, that will be even more validation that you will never, ever win an argument, will never, ever be right about anything, and will never, ever get him out of his own head. 

I don't know what you think "one more chance" is going to accomplish. If you give him an ultimatum, you will either get your feelings hurt, or he will act nice for a short while (a couple weeks maybe) and then turn back into himself again.

At this point, the biggest problem in your marriage is you. I know you don't see that right now, but it's true. I am not blaming you but need you to see that had you never overlooked all his flaws, his meaness, and selfishness, you would have sent him the message that he cannot get away with it and could not treat you this way. But, you wanted the marriage. You wanted to be with him and "made a vow," so you tolerated his mistreatment until it has now become intolerable. I don't know and don't believe that it was ever fixable, but I know there is no point in trying. There is no point in giving him "one last chance" because he is not going to change.

Women who tolerate abuse have little, if any, self esteem. Your decision to give him one last chance proves that you don't have the courage to leave him because you have no self esteem. You should seek counseling so you're able to understand what you are doing to yourself. None of his actions and none of his words are your fault (and I know he tries to convince you that it is), but that you do and continue to subject yourself to his abuse certainly is entirely your own doing.


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