# Needing another sexual partner



## WAS (May 21, 2018)

Hello,
I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming. 

I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Why does it sound like you're trying to one up your wife... Anyways I think putting your wife into this situation after being married all these years is wrong and hurtful. I guess some people just don't know what they want.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Why don't you just go up and stick a knife in your wife.
Get it over with!

Sheeesh!

Do you realize how wrong and silly you sound.

You want sex with more women? Get a divorce. 
Why crush the women who has loved and supported you all these years.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i get it (sort of). 

but, time to pull up your pants, cinch your belt up tight and be a man, by adhering to your vows to be true to her, only her and no one else.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


Is some strange worth losing your kids, your wife, your house, your dog and your retirement savings over? I think if you go find some you will be a little disappointed that it wasn't much better than the old 20 yr old flavor.


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## Luvher4life (Jan 15, 2016)

How would you feel if your wife wanted to be with somebody else? You have a wife who has stuck with you for 20 years, along with two children, and you're willing to throw that away for the chance at some strange?

It's normal to feel what you're feeling, but I will tell you this. It ain't worth it. Fantasy almost never lives up to reality.

Have you tried spicing up your sex life with your wife?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

What exactly do you feel is lacking in the sex life that you already have? And why do you think you'd be able to fix that with someone else? Would you be comfortable with your wife getting some strange on the side?


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

I can guarantee you that the reality of it would not live up to the fantasy you've created in your mind about it. I prefer sex with someone I'm comfortable with. You know what she likes, she knows what you like. There's a rhythm to it. It would be the dumbest decision you could ever make to give up a good marriage for some clumsy random sex you will most likely be disappointed by.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

What do you think you will accomplish with this? Make a pros and cons list perhaps.

Pros:
Feel the inside a different vagina

Cons:
Lose the love of your wife and the marriage you have built with her.

Pros:
New sexual excitement

Cons:
Cheapen the intamacy of sex with your wife

Pros:
Boost of your ego

Cons:
Wife loses all respect for you

Pro: 
No longer wondering

Cons:
Didn't go as planned, sex was bad, you learn that you don't know how to sexually please a different woman...

Pro:
Maybe new sex will be GREAT 

Cons:
You now no longer desire sex with your wife

Honestly, unless you and your wife wanted to be swingers (which still has major pit falls) can't comprehend a pro list that would be longer or more significant than your cons list.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


You need to really listen to what I am going to tell you. 

I have been with more than my share of women, way more. I won't tell you that at one time I did not like the variety, the excitement, general fun. 

But then after many women, I met my current GF. We are maybe older than you, 54 and 60. She is a little older. 

With all the woman that I have been with, she is the best for a lot of reasons. She was not super experienced for her age, married 3 times to some bad choices and single for a lot of years, and not one to sleep around. Kind of worried my to be honest at first. 

While she is beautiful, and very sexy, and she is a natural in the sack, all those reasons don't really make her the best. Yeah, they don't hurt I will give you that. 

But what makes our sex life so great, it that we ARE IN LOVE. That is the key ingredient. 

Now you, brother, you already have that. A good marriage with a woman that loves you, you guys are having sex, there is not infidelity that you know of on either side.... What it the **** are you thinking? 

You think banging some random woman is going to make any of that better? You think it is going to make you feel better in any way? Well it won't. 

Fact of the matter is you have nothing to feel bad about. 

Do you enjoy sex with your wife, does she, is it frequent enough to meet each others need? If the answers to those questions is yes, then you need to accept that you are one of the lucky ones. 

Seriously, man, you have to wake up...


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

OP, while I understand where you're coming from, I assure you that it would not be worth the risks to your relationship. It sounds like you have a great relationship, a loving wife, and I will assume that you have a good sex life as well. Sex with someone else may be exciting - briefly - but can't come close to what you have now. It's time to let this go, and focus on appreciating how lucky you are compared to many.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

It's simple really. You either respect your marriage vows or you don't. You're capable of cheating or you're not. It doesn't matter if you ask her permission. But why don't you take a minute to think about how that made your wife feel. You actually asked her permission to break your wedding vows.

Lot's of married men fantasize about having sex with another beautiful woman, probably most; but they don't act on it. Because it's just a fantasy. Keep it that way and then apologize to your wife; or divorce her before you cheat on her.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.



Life is about picking what you can live with. Like Jagger said, you can't always get what you want. 

So tell your wife, (hopefully she has some backbone) pay for the divorce and then go find other women.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

> I don't want to live with this regret either.


You will trade this regret for a lifetime full of them if you do this.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Spicy said:


> > I don't want to live with this regret either.
> 
> 
> You will trade this regret for a lifetime full of them if you do this.


Was thinking of a long detailed explanation but this sums it up perfectly! I understand the curiosity but damn and I know it's hard for people to feel consequences and hurt before it happens but one of my curses and frankly gifts is that I can literally feel the emotions of actions I envision. That allows me to realize how good or bad things might be based upon my own decisions. Unfortunate my STBXW doesn't have an ounce of this but .... Again. Understand the feeling and the curiosity as I have only been with my STBXW in my lifetime. I'm 38. But the few minutes of enjoyment would be traded eventually for a lifetime of regret and hatred towards yourself. Maybe this helps. You do this and your kids find out. What is the ratio of shame to enjoyment there. Hopefully that paints a picture.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

Why not spice up the bedroom and start doing other activities with your wife?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

WAS said:


> I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


What does this mean exactly? 

How exactly did you approach her about this? Did you bring up some kind of FMF 3-way or something?

Did you bring up any kind of couple/couple swinging where she could be with another man as well??

How did you discuss this with her and what were her specific objections?


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

Aside from a lot of very realistic and easily best advice you've already received on this thread, the only thing I thought could be added was that you might need to find something to channel these urges into. Whether it's sports, working on cars, a new skill, or a hobby you've always wanted to try but didn't have the chance to, just go for it. You need a new focus and something that can help take your mind off of this. 

Try to find new ways to explore your wife in the bedroom. I guarantee you haven't done everything you can to enjoy the life partner you already have, and it might be fun exploring new territory together. Maybe you each make a list of things you've never done, or look up some fun and safe one-on-one kinks you both can try. 

You need something new, something different, and to do this with your wife with her being just as new to it as you will be thrilling and intimate in a way you would never be able to get from a partner outside of your marriage.


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## Vespil (May 21, 2018)

You gave up the option to be with other women when you got married. 

Sure you could always cheat but that's not right. 

Either find a way to live with your choice, or get divorced and live the life you seem to believe you always wanted.

You just might find it to be much less satisfactory than the one you have now.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


Yeah, stfu about this to your wife!!!

I was in the same boat btw. Not out of religious or moral grounds, just that my wife was the one I lost my virginity to as a freshman in college. I grew up in a little slice of time and location where sex amongst teens was the exception not the rule. Not so for my wife. That certainly caused me some angst at times.

You talking about this with your wife is going to poison the well. It is going to make her feel insecure about the relationship, and she is going to get paranoid. This is your burden to bear because you chose to marry her.

The only way you can get a hall pass from her is if you are happy to give her the same. Chances are not good for how you will feel or what will happen to your marriage if you do!

I seriously suggest you consult a therapist. Your work should provide free and totally confidential counseling through the Employee Assistance Program (EAP). I don't think you are going to ever really get to total peace over this, but I think talking to somebody in real life can really help you.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Also, have you thought about what it is deep down inside you are thinking and feeling which is leading you to think being with another woman would help solve? Do you just feel like less of a man? Do you feel less than your wife somehow? Do you feel like she knows something about life which you don't? Do you think she compares you to other men she's been with? Do you just feel some primal need to spread your seed widely? Something else?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs.
> 
> .... *Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming. *
> ...


Let's approach this from a few different angles. You do know why having an affair and cheating on your wife is a really bad idea. That is a good start. 

You have talked about wanting to have sex with another woman to your wife. This indicates either good communication skills are a real lack of knowledge of your wife and how it would make her feel. She has given you the answer that your having sex with someone else is not going to happen with her approval. 

You can either listen to her and figure out what the two of you can do or you can try to change her.

What I have learned is that you can't change your spouse, only they can change themself. Anything else will just be frustrating for you.

What my advise is, is for you to completely give up on the idea of actually having sex with another woman. Since your wife already knows about your fantasy, tell her that you love her too much to hurt her, but that you would like to see if she and you could do some role-playing where the two of you pretend she is another woman that you have sex with. That might help you get it out of your system and reestablish the trust between the two of you.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

Take this feeling of yours, and put it in a box and lock it. Then dig a deep hole, and drop the box in and cover it up with dirt. Now, doesn't that feel better? Yeah, I know it doesn't, but it's necessary. 

The titillation you feel now in doing the mental exercises of fulfilling your fantasy will pale in comparison to the guilt and shame after committing the deed. (….and the sex will suck).

As an FYI, don't ever bring it up again to your wife, she's right to be disgusted by it, and her respect for you will plummet. Direct your sexual tension/attention on her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

WAS said:


> Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure.
> 
> 
> She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down".
> ...


As far as I am concerned, every single heterosexual man on the planet has a certain degree of yearning for some sexual variety and be with a number of different women. 

And I think every woman on the planet also fantasizes about being with a tall, handsome, rich powerful man (or men).

That is all part of our natural programming and basically makes one "normal."

I don't see anything shocking about anyone who has only been with one person the last 20 years having some curiosities and desires for some variety.

What does concern me though is the repeated use of the word "regret."

I want to get down with Jenifer Love Hewit and Anna Kendrick myself so I don't think there's anything odd about a guy wanting some strange. But the use of the word 'regret' adds a completely different layer and different subset of issues.

Why the regret????? I want to tear it up with other hot chicks as much as the next guy but feel no regret that I don't actually do it.

Are there some deeper personal or relationship issues going on here that haven't been addressed? 

Is the marriage actually less satisfactory and healthy than is being described??

Are their any elephants in the room that haven't been addressed here?

Is the fact that she has had more notches on her bedpost a bigger issue and a bigger point of contention than has been described?

Is there more to this story??


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## h02venon69 (May 14, 2018)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> 
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> ...




Well my friend. I don't think she would ever agreed to see you making love with another woman or even been there as part of it. In the other hand was good that you told her how you feel but at this time in point of your life's. You could've done it different by maybe going to a place with a scort or something like that. There are plenty of woman you could talk too and choose to do that... Now you could put your marriage or your wife unconditional love in question.... But just something to think obout... And also what was her response to your proposed... And what's your decision after that.... Whatever your decide to to do wish you good luck... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Don't know what you got, till it's gone...

First, take her on an exotic weekend to a tropical location with a hired adonis/sex god and sit back and relax as you watch him reduce your wife to puddles of quivering orgasms over and over, in every conceivable way for the entire weekend and get back to us on your idea.


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## Vespil (May 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> Don't know what you got, till it's gone...
> 
> First, take her on an exotic weekend to a tropical location with a hired adonis/sex god and sit back and relax as you watch him reduce your wife to puddles of quivering orgasms over and over, in every conceivable way for the entire weekend and get back to us on your idea.


Sounds expensive.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Vespil said:


> Sounds expensive.


No, dudes will do that for free. they could pretty much ask any dude to do it. 

What would be expensive would be for someone that describes himself as "sexually repressed and insecure" who just wants to hook up with some other chick without any emotional investment or connection. That is what will cost some $$$$$.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vespil said:


> Sounds expensive.


It deserves to be.

His course of actions should cost him first on many levels. Might make him think about what it is costing his wife and it will definitely drive home a small notion of what it will cost him.


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## Vespil (May 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> No, dudes will do that for free. they could pretty much ask any dude to do it.


The trip to the island would be the expensive part!


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Mid life crisis? Grass is greener? Sex with someone else will be like porn? You'll get a BJ from some random woman?

You have definitely poisoned the well. You made her feel insecure in a relationship she probably used to brag about to others and trust issues will creep in now if not resentment that she isn't enough for you.

Read about walk away wife and count until your youngest is out of high school or perhaps college.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Vespil said:


> The trip to the island would be the expensive part!


He needs to hire a pro Adonis as well so that is a cost.

No amateurs for his wife to get stuck with.


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## Vespil (May 21, 2018)

ConanHub said:


> He needs to hire a pro Adonis as well so that is a cost.
> 
> No amateurs for his wife to get stuck with.


True. Also the cost of beer. Those Adonis guys like their beer or so I hear.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Vespil said:


> The trip to the island would be the expensive part!


Yeah, they wouldn't need to travel to an island to find some dude to service her. Anyone from the cashier at the corner Quick Trip to the meter reader would do it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> It deserves to be.
> 
> His course of actions should cost him first on many levels. Might make him think about what it is costing his wife and it will definitely drive home a small notion of what it will cost him.


To get serious and set my sarcasm aside for a moment - your point is actually quite valid even though I get the feeling you are saying this to discourage him. 

I think the OP is a one-hit drive by, but assuming it is a legit thread, the reason I asked him to explain how he approached her about opening their marriage is to see if he simply asked her if he could bang another chick sometime or did he actually approach this in a manner that addresses her sexual fantasies and desires as well. 

IMHO if he is ready, willing and able to address and accommodate her desires and comfort zones and interests as well as his own - then open marriage/swinging/polyamory etc become valid and legitimate points of discussion. 

Her answer may still be no, but if he is willing to incorporate her sexual desires and fantasies along with his own as part of a couple, then it is all fair game for discussion. 

If he has only approached her about letting him bang other chicks without addressing her fantasies and desires and without affording her similar options - then it is a valid advice on our part to suggest that he consider a fair and balanced approach to him negotiating her needs as part of their discussions.


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## BigToe (Jun 2, 2011)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


I don't believe you. I think you are bored having sex with your wife and believe the grass is greener on the other side, using your lack of experience with multiple women as a crutch to cross the road.

Giving you the benefit of doubt, however, trust me you aren't missing anything. vagina is vagina is vagina. If you've poked one, you've poked them all. What makes sex special is the love that you share exclusively with someone else, not vaginal penetration. You might as well f**k a pillow.

You will never find peace or satisfaction under your premise because you are not talking about simple "release" of an urge. You present your argument as if a few moments of "paradise by the dashboard lights" is going to fulfill you...it won't. You already have that which so MANY would give both nuts to have; by your own words, a faithful wife, a full life, and lots of love. You have it ALL friend, don't f**k it up. The grass is always greener where you water it.


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## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I had the opposite problem. Many sex partners but my wife was a virgin at 19. I got to teach her all she knows.  Our problem was that my wife was curious about sex with other men. I could understand that since my virgin ex fiancé cheated for that reason. Plus I would want to know if the sex I get is good or bad so why not my wife wanting that too. One night our best friends asked us if we wanted to wife swap with them. It was something they were thinking of too, but did not want to do it with strangers. I left it up to my wife and she said yes. 

On the drive home my wife said that she hated it and had bruises on her body. My wife is under 5' and was 79 lbs. at the time. She would bruise if I held her arm too tight during my orgasm. She also said that she never got close to an orgasm and from then on I was to be the only man in her life. She was true to her word. What I did not know was that I was to be the only guy, but not the only sex partner. 

Long story short is that my wife discovered her bisexuality and we both learned that her best friend, who had a crush on me since we were 14, is also bi and had been with a few other women in college. I thought that was urban legend, but it is a real thing, especially for women who wanted to remain virgins until they wed. We put our marriage, above all else, even monogamy. We saw 53% of traditional marriages end in divorce with a lot of cheating going on. For those of you who are thinking no way would my spouse do that, don't be so certain because those who believe that are easily fooled. I know quite a few spouses who are mistaken in their firm belief about that. Most shockingly are those who appear to be very sweet and trustworthy. 


Our thinking was that we would never board an airplane that had only a 47% chance or taking us to our destination so why in heck do so many enter into a marriage that was structured for a society a long time ago, with such bad odds? There is a lot to suffer and pay for if it does not work out, and yet many take the leap foolishly thinking that they will beat the odds. Vegas loves people like that. Anyway, we learned that sex can be just sex for the pleasure. It does not have to be making love. It does not mean that you love your spouse less no more than loving a sibling means you do not love the rest of your family. In our case we learned that you can love more than one person without ruining a marriage or evoking jealousy. 

We shared the same long time girlfriend and a few other friends of my wife for most of our 46 years of marriage. My wife was always free to have sex with other men, but she does not want to as I no longer want sex with other women. We have been monogamous, not really 100% since our gf visited us and we enjoyed each other during her visit, for the last 8 years as it suits our old age and medical issues. Our life was filled with fun, love, happiness and success in all areas. You cannot argue with success. I do warn you that just as cheating can ruin a marriage, inviting others into you marital bed does put your marriage at risk. Sex sometimes turns into feelings which turn into love. It is not uncommon for one, or both in one case, of the spouses to find someone they fall in love with the first time they have sex, who is much better than their spouse in all ways. When emotions come into play we humans tend to make very bad choices.

What you can do is ask your wife if she every thought of a threesome with another man. She would likely ask you if you thought of the same with another woman. Be honest and say that since you missed out of experiencing sex with others, you are always feeling curious about it. Much like eating at the same restaurant all the time and wanting to try some other place. We communicate all of our sexual needs and fetishes to each other. Great communication equals great sex. I have no problem when my wife shows an interest in women or even if I just watch her with one in bed. Jealousy is spawned from lack of self confidence and fear of loss. We both know what we bring to the table and that it is something we want to preserve no matter our lifestyle.

I never mentioned a threesome or wife swap to my wife and yet I found myself living with two girls who were up to try anything I wanted to try. In my wildest dreams I never thought I would end up living with two women having threesomes a few nights a week throughout most of our marriage. I never dreamed that I would have one woman, much less two, who were into spicing our sex life up when it got boring. I am living a dream and I never asked for it. My wife knew that I needed more than one woman in my life based on my last two relationships and what she had heard about me years before we even met. She worked it so we each got another sex partner. I love her for it. I like to bend life to my will. Works most of the time. My wife never knew she was bi until she tried it and loved it. So talk about it. Let your wife know that you need to know what sex feels like with others and it is eating at you. Tell her that you would never cheat and would like a FFM threesome under her supervision and rules. If she comes back and says no way, never ask her again because she may feel that if she does not accept your offer,you will cheat on her. The other outcome will be that if you are nagging her about it she may say yes to shut you up and then regret it for the rest of her life. My wife still regrets having sex with the other guy. She always pictured herself as being faithful to her husband. Things that sometimes sound good are not that good in reality. You may feel so nervous with another women that you cannot perform or last long. I have to know a woman at least as a friend before I can be comfortable having sex with her. In my much younger days it was not a problem and I had a lot of one night stands. As I got older I wanted some kind of emotional attachment to a woman first. Good luck and I tell my tale to make you and others aware that there are options beside monogamy. If monogamy works for you, that is really great. If it does not work for you, cheating is not the answer as it never ends well. We are all handed monogamy without any options. There are options though.


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## WAS (May 21, 2018)

Thanks to all who shared your honest, and sometimes brutal feedback. That's what I wanted to hear. Don't agree with all of it, but I am listening and appreciative.

To any of you that think this is happening without my wife's knowledge, you are wrong. I have worked through a lot in my life, and open communication has been at the root. I have discussed this desire with my wife openly, and she understands where it comes from without feeling threatened. My ideal scenario is a FFM with my wife, and we've talked about that. She is not against it, but can not see a situation where it would work. She has been with women in the past, and still is attracted to women.

I understand that sex with love is very different than sex without love, but only from others telling me. This is an experience I would like to have, but Im not willing to sacrifice what Ive built with my wife. 

I think one of the best suggestions I read on here was doing a RP with my wife, of her as another woman. I think that is a great idea. Much better advice to me than something like "man up and respect traditional wedding vows". I have no desire to be traditional. Just true to who i am, and we are.


----------



## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

WAS said:


> Thanks to all who shared your honest, and sometimes brutal feedback. That's what I wanted to hear. Don't agree with all of it, but I am listening and appreciative.
> 
> To any of you that think this is happening without my wife's knowledge, you are wrong. I have worked through a lot in my life, and open communication has been at the root. I have discussed this desire with my wife openly, and she understands where it comes from without feeling threatened. My ideal scenario is a FFM with my wife, and we've talked about that. She is not against it, but can not see a situation where it would work. She has been with women in the past, and still is attracted to women.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your honesty but you last statement. I take it you didn't get married in a church then and have traditional vows? And if you did, why did you take vows if you didn't plan on keeping them? That should of been the beginning process of being true to who you are.


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## Vespil (May 21, 2018)

WAS said:


> I have discussed this desire with my wife openly, and she understands where it comes from without feeling threatened.


How could she possibly not feel threatened by you telling her she's not satisfying your needs and you want to be with another woman?

I think she's not being honest with you- for reasons that are completely understandable.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's consulted with an attorney.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Many third party experiences are the beginning of the end for a marriage. Perhaps yours will be different. There are a few here who have lived that life 'successfully'

But make no mistake most women would be threatened.

Good luck.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

WELL!

It seems @WAS was, ain't no more.

Cuz?
@WAS was not satisfied with the was-nots, 
The word-bots.
The answers.

The long-knife wasses, whizzing by his head.


King Brian-


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

WAS said:


> Thanks to all who shared your honest, and sometimes brutal feedback. That's what I wanted to hear. Don't agree with all of it, but I am listening and appreciative.
> 
> To any of you that think this is happening without my wife's knowledge, you are wrong. I have worked through a lot in my life, and open communication has been at the root. I have discussed this desire with my wife openly, and she understands where it comes from without feeling threatened. My ideal scenario is a FFM with my wife, and we've talked about that. She is not against it, but can not see a situation where it would work. She has been with women in the past, and still is attracted to women.
> 
> ...


Honest question, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but if she likes women and is not opposed to an FFM-type scenario, then why not look into that?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Vespil said:


> How could she possibly not feel threatened by you telling her she's not satisfying your needs and you want to be with another woman?
> 
> I think she's not being honest with you- for reasons that are completely understandable.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if she's consulted with an attorney.


The key factor here is they are communicating about openly and he is compassionate and respectful if her feelings and boundaries etc.

One thing we all need to keep in mind here is she has presumably not been with anyone else for the last 20 years either and she may also be wanting to explore other options and scenarios as well.

Anything can be discussed as long as it is in a respectful and compassionate manner and as long as people's boundaries and limits are respected.

The desire for novelty and variety after decades of marriage is something that all couples must address in their marriage (even if the answer is no)

If someone is going to head to the lawyers office simply because someone openly discusses their desire and fantasies - that is probably not a healthy and happy marriage to begin with. 

I don't get the impression that he is pointing a finger in her face and accusing her of not satisfying him. I get the impression he has compassionately, tactfully and honestly expressed some of his fantasies and desires.

That is called communicating.

Isn't that what Oprah and all the self-help authors say we should be doing?


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## WAS (May 21, 2018)

Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.

And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


I understand exactly what you are saying. I was a virgin when I married too.

And I took vows. One of them was fidelity. Did YOU take vows?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


One thing you need to be aware of is that many of the people in this site have found themselves here due to being cheated on so any mention of any kind of thoughts or feelings involving other people people immediately set off the alarm bells. 

While I am against cheating, manipulation, duress etc etc I do recognize that all people (including my own wife, my mother, my sister, Mother Theresa, the Pope etc) have feelings and desires that are not always comfortable and neat and tidy and that which fits neatly into the traditional marriage pidgeon hole.

Having a range of fantasies and desires is simply part if being human.

We can either try to suppress and deny those feelings.

Or we can try to suck it up and muscle through them.

Or we can be open and honest about them and discuss them in a compassionate and tactful manner with our partner and collaboratively work with our partner to deal with both our fantasies as well as OUR PARTNER's.

My wife and I took the latter approach and after a couple years of open (and admittedly at times somewhat scary ) discussion, we did enter into the world of swinging and were very active swingers for a good number of years. 

It worked for us.

It doesn't always work for many others however and I strive to be open and honest here on these forums about the risks and pitfalls as well as the benefits of consensual nonmonogamy. 

That being said, I and a couple others here are the outliers. The majority of the posters here are very staunch proponents of traditional, strictly monogamous marriage and do not support anything that poses the slightest risk to the sanctity if a marriage.

While I do understand and respect their opinion, my opinion is that boredom, complacency, neglect and denial of basic human instincts is just as risky and poses just as much of a threat as collaborative and consensual nonmonogamy.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


Two things here. Yes, it's great to have open communication but to assume that you have something or know something that the vets on here don't is a naive approach. They are taking everything you said into consideration and giving you what they think, their advice and what will likely happen. Just as I thought I could sidestep all of the great advice here and WILL myself to save my STBXW and our marriage, you are trying to impose your will on what you want. The dudes and dudettes on here have either done it or seen it, thus offering you the advice you came on here asking for.


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## WAS (May 21, 2018)

POI - do you ever feel the same way I do? How do you handle it?

We wrote our own vows, nothing about fidelity - but we are certainly loyal and faithful to each other.


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## SA2017 (Dec 27, 2016)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.



DON'T do it! Don't even ever mention this to your wife. you don't miss out on anything. you have a wrong idea or fantasy. don't destroy your marriage over a wrong image. Be PROUD that you have been with ONE woman only. this is a great privilege, I envy you. really. I wish I would have kept my body pure for my husband. 


If you want to try new things, do it with your own wife. spice it up and enjoy. don't go the wrong path. 

In the end is just a different vagina but the same act. nothing new , nothing much different. You don't miss anything. Enjoy your INTACT marriage life. :x


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## Handy (Jul 23, 2017)

WAS why risk 95% of what you have for maybe a 5% thrill. If your marriage is anything similar to a long term investment it wouldn't be worth the risk of losing 95% of what you have invested, let alone the damage you will cause to your wife.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


Go ahead and do it if you want to risk your marriage and wife's love for you.

You have to decide which is more important to you.

By the way, if you want to experience a more diverse and erotic sex life, do everything you can think of with your wife. 

If you have a good sex life with W, she'll be with you, and game (safely) for all.

Keep pushing the envelope with her and you might find you'll get what you're looking for and she likely will appreciate the new you. 

Remember, what you're experiencing is as old as time. It's not unique to you. It is important to you and that's ok if you want to have your wife leave you emotionally if not in RW.

Spend your efforts on W. That's probably the most common advice you'll get here.

I'd say you're an idiot if you let this wreck your marriage but I feel I've been censored for using the idiot word. So peace and good luck to you.


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## ButWeAreStrange (Feb 2, 2018)

I'm finding it interesting how many people are pressing the issue of vows when they have no personal idea of what vows formed the marriage. Not all vows come from the same place and it seems rather presumptive to declare a stranger breaking said vows if they were not held to those specific standards to begin with. 

OP, I do think the idea of role playing will be a fun way for you and your wife to explore the idea of something/someone different. In regards to her interest in FFM threesomes, has she had any prior experience with these that drives her concern over it potentially risking the relationship? I agree with the responses that do bring up the question about whether or not this sort of exploration would be worth potentially putting your marriage on an edge, but that's also why open communication and honesty is so important with these types of situations. 

Would she be more comfortable with the idea of an FFM with strict boundaries? As in, are you specifically interested in knowing what it's like to be sexual with another person, or is PIV with someone new the main driving curiosity? Depending on the root of your interest and the true boundaries she's willing to work with, you could have several options to designing a safe environment for mutual exploration. 

Are there any kink nights or club events in your area that you could both dress up and go to so you can mutually observe others acting out things that might be interesting to you? Instead of just jumping into the water it might be good to even see how you would feel "on the hunt" together as a couple, just in the sense of feeling out how it would actually make you both react to the idea of it. I used to work at a club like that and couples who were simply exploring the idea of something new would just come to observe others acting out what they wanted to do to see if it was something they truly wanted to pursue. It's not for everyone, but as long as both members of the couple are willing and able to work together in honest communication about it, it can be thrilling to even play pretend.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

just curious - suppose she wants to scratch an itch that she hasn't before - say, double penetration with two racially different men - would you let her?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


Keep telling yourself that. 😉


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

manfromlamancha said:


> just curious - suppose she wants to scratch an itch that she hasn't before - say, double penetration with two racially different men - would you let her?


Right to the point. Outstanding!


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


I know some people said that. Some do. But in your first post you said that she said NO to others in your bed room. 

I don't necessarily think you are wrong for wanting to explore sex with others, what I am saying is this. 

Think about it, and if wife says no, unless you want to mess up a good thing, realize that you have a good thing. If she does NOT want to participate, then you probably should not. 

Now if she is into it, weeellll that is a totally different thing. And if she wants to swing or what ever that is great. But you still have to communicate at a level that is probably higher than what you have done so far. 

Now @oldshirt has vast experience so he knows what he is talking about. 

I have a good deal of experience, and I am telling you that since I have found my Current GF, I hardly even look at other women. I have no desire to. 

And in my situation, I will not take a chance of anything messing up what I have with her. So she is strictly mono, and I am cool with that. So now, I am strictly mono and I am fine with it...


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

And to think there used to be brothels in every town to handle situations like this.


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## Townes (Jan 31, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> Two things here. Yes, it's great to have open communication but to assume that you have something or know something that the vets on here don't is a naive approach. They are taking everything you said into consideration and giving you what they think, their advice and what will likely happen. Just as I thought I could sidestep all of the great advice here and WILL myself to save my STBXW and our marriage, you are trying to impose your will on what you want. The dudes and dudettes on here have either done it or seen it, thus offering you the advice you came on here asking for.


This is kind of the inherent problem with relationship forums. Just like in real life, almost no one listens to relationship advice unless it's what they already want to hear. Everyone thinks their relationship situation is unique, and they have to learn the hard way through their own experience.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> And to think there used to be brothels in every town to handle situations like this.



Yep, and all the things - like disease - that go with it. Like forcing children into the trade.

Yeah, good times....


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WAS said:


> POI - do you ever feel the same way I do? How do you handle it?
> 
> We wrote our own vows, nothing about fidelity - but we are certainly loyal and faithful to each other.


No you want to get legalistic about your vows? There is a lot that is not specifically stated in your vows.

It's not about what specifics were stated in your vows, it's about how infidelity and/or 3somes will change your relationship with your wife.

If you want a FMF, then you have to agree to a MFM for her. If you want to go out and have a few flings, then she should be able to do it as well.

Or she can chose to just leave you if you want the FFM and/or flings. 

this is not only about you and your choices. Be very careful when you open Pandora's box.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> And to think there used to be brothels in every town to handle situations like this.


There still are. Today most women will dump a husband who they found out went to a prostitute.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Townes said:


> This is kind of the inherent problem with relationship forums. Just like in real life, almost no one listens to relationship advice unless it's what they already want to hear. Everyone thinks their relationship situation is unique, and they have to learn the hard way through their own experience.


And most of the advisors on this forum don't have the same perspective as OP. He has only ever been with one woman. Those who say "you haven't missed out on anything" aren't seeing it from his perspective.

Those comments and the advice are in fact valid, but mostly were delivered attached to a 2x4.

What I wholeheartedly agree with is that humans are pretty standard issue. If his wife has said no, there is great risk of harm to the relationship to continue to bring it up with her. Human nature is what it is, and everybody has been 100% correct that it will undermine her trust and love.

I don't think the underlying issues have been examined by OP. He certainly has not discussed what is going on in his head other than he feels this urge to get some strange. The solution can't be found until the underlying cause is better identified. Lots of questions have been asked of him and almost none answered.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

A vow is simply a promise, an unwritten contract. If two people make a vow to each other, they can jointly choose to revise or set aside that vow, just like a contract modification. Unilaterally breaking a vow (without your partner's agreement) would be cheating. It's allowed if you both agree, even if things go wrong because of it.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Married but Happy said:


> A vow is simply a promise, an unwritten contract. If two people make a vow to each other, they can jointly choose to revise or set aside that vow, just like a contract modification. Unilaterally breaking a vow (without your partner's agreement) would be cheating. It's allowed if you both agree, even if things go wrong because of it.


This^^^^^

Each couple has agency to determine their own sexual dynamic as a couple. 

It's all about communication and negotiation. 

I have some background in Emergency Management. 
There is an old saying in emergency planning that the plan is not as important as the planning.

In other words, the communication process is often more vital and important than final verdict.

Whether a couple is strictly monogamous and traditional vs getting into BD/SM vs getting into kinks and fetishes vs role playing vs swinging/open marriage etc doesn't matter as much as the communication process that leads to it. 

Communicating and working collaboratively towards a mutually agreed upon sexual dynamic is in and of itself a very bonding and connecting behavior regardless of the final agreement.

Conversely when couples try to force themselves to conform with an outside standard of behavior imposed upon them by others, it often results in two miserable people.


----------



## Honda750 (Feb 12, 2015)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> 
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> ...




Stop thinking of your own needs and man up to your position in this life 



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Almost every married person I know has the occasional desire for variety. Even folks who are mostly wired for monogamy.

And that includes the numerous folks who had numerous sexual partners prior to marriage. 

Thing is - the choice to forsake all others is a very strong show of commitment to your partner. Perhaps the single strongest show of commitment.

It seems a bit odd that you mention being true to who WE are below, given that your wife is so clearly opposed. 

As for your vows - not including a commitment to fidelity - not sure what to tell you other than this. 

High risk marital behaviors are best executed prior to children or after the youngest has left the home. 




WAS said:


> Thanks to all who shared your honest, and sometimes brutal feedback. That's what I wanted to hear. Don't agree with all of it, but I am listening and appreciative.
> 
> To any of you that think this is happening without my wife's knowledge, you are wrong. I have worked through a lot in my life, and open communication has been at the root. I have discussed this desire with my wife openly, and she understands where it comes from without feeling threatened. My ideal scenario is a FFM with my wife, and we've talked about that. She is not against it, but can not see a situation where it would work. She has been with women in the past, and still is attracted to women.
> 
> ...


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


*A little late now for that unless, of course, she acquiesces and allows you the privilege of having an open marriage ~ which at this point in time is highly unlikely!*


----------



## Ditch (Apr 16, 2014)

Curiosity can kill the cat, or marriage in this case. You have what most want, and you need to realize it is good, because the candy in the window shop can be very bitter.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Thor said:


> And most of the advisors on this forum don't have the same perspective as OP. He has only ever been with one woman. Those who say "you haven't missed out on anything" aren't seeing it from his perspective.
> 
> Those comments and the advice are in fact valid, but mostly were delivered attached to a 2x4.


You know I don't disagree with anything you wrote in the above post. 

But, just once, I wish someone that came here seeking advice would be smart enough, which probably translates to old/wise enough, to actually understand and accept what they are being told. 

I get that OP feel left out of some experiences. And I don't begrudge him feeling that way. However, in his original post he said she was not interested. Then said that she was and they had really talked about it. 

Now if he and his wife want to embark on an open/swinging relationship, I am cool with that, as long as he understands that the communication and commitment level involved with that sort of thing. 

Frankly I don't judge him in any way for wanting to explore that at all. But the wife has to be completely on board. 

Now for me, while I have not had a partner that wanted to swing, I have had some minor experiences. And I am a guy that, with the right woman, I could be happy in that. 

I have had times in my life that I have seen multiple women, completely in the open and honestly, and for a while it worked out great. 

The problem is that after some random period of time, one or a couple of those women wanted more, or a different relationship, and eventually it blows up. And with that blow up comes the accompanying drama, which can be kind of scary. 

So in my posts I am saying: Listen, if you have a good marriage and a good sex life, you need to cherish that. 

And further, you don't want to endanger that for some strange. In the long run, it is not worth it.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

When I was in my teens, I wanted to join the military.

This was only a handful of years after the fall of Saigon and the military was at an all time low in popularity and it was not considered an honorable profession.

People told me horror stories if drill instructors and sleeping in rain filled foxholes and eating horrible K-rations. 

Everyone told me to treasure my comfortable, clean, content civilian life and told me if I joined the military I'd be miserable and would yearn for the cushy civilian life I left behind.

Wanna know what I did when I got into my early 20s and could make my own decisions based on my wants and needs and my own personal values????

Yes, there were times I was laying in a mud-filled foxhole, eating MREs and being yelled at by drill sergeants missing my clean and comfortable civilian life. ..... But I still loved every minute if it and I fulfilled my own calling....even though there were many times if stress and misery.

My point to all of this is that it is fair and prudent to point out potential risks, pitfalls and complications - but people want what they want and there comes a time when a people has to make their own path and follow their own dreams, even though it may have pitfalls and risks and disrupt their current comforts and status quo's.

It's easy for someone who has had many sexual experiences and partners to tell someone that multiple partners isn't all that great. It's easy to pat him on the head and tell him to be content with what he has. 

That's fine, but he's _NOT_ content with living out his days never having experienced another sex partner. 

When someone is in that position, other people's assurances that it ain't all that great don't mean a thing.

When someone who has been with a hundred people says it's not that great and that he should be happy with one, it means nothing because if one was enough, they wouldn't have screwed the other 99!

It's fair to point out potential risks and pitfalls, but no one has a right to tell other people what they should settle for and be content with.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> > And to think there used to be brothels in every town to handle situations like this.
> ...


I was talking about 100 yrs ago, when neighborhood brothels were common and visiting one was not grounds for a judge to approve a divorce.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

This has been mentioned in previous posts above, that if OP can persuaded his W to let him bring in or fool around with another woman/women, that's between them and no worries if she agrees.

Whether or not she agrees it will, and don't think it won't, put you marriage and wife's respect at risk.

And if she agrees, here's another old adage to remember that likely will reflect her frame of mind....

"A person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still".

Yes may still mean no. And the wheel turns.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> This has been mentioned in previous posts above, that if OP can persuaded his W to let him bring in or fool around with another woman/women, that's between them and no worries if she agrees.
> 
> Whether or not she agrees it will, and don't think it won't, put you marriage and wife's respect at risk.
> 
> ...


This is true.

However from the OP's most recent posts it sounds like the discussions are still open. Which means if they are able to find the right scenario and right conditions for her to be good with then she may...... Well,,, be good with it.

There are a million different combinations and permutations of sexual expression and sometimes it just takes finding the right key to unlock the gates.

Maybe once he suggests getting down in a vat of Romen Noodles with a traveling troupe of circus midgets, she will be all over it :-D


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

MAJDEATH said:


> I was talking about 100 yrs ago, when neighborhood brothels were common and visiting one was not grounds for a judge to approve a divorce.


Well to be fair... perhaps 100 years ago married men were free to go to brothels.

And women couldn't vote, open a bank account, inherit property, heck "wife beating" was commonly acceptable and not seen as grounds for divorce. 

Women put up with a lot of BS 100 years ago that does not fly today.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> When I was in my teens, I wanted to join the military.
> 
> This was only a handful of years after the fall of Saigon and the military was at an all time low in popularity and it was not considered an honorable profession.
> 
> ...


Yeah. Once your married those arguments lose a hell of a lot of credibility.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> Yeah. Once your married those arguments lose a hell of a lot of credibility.


It applies to just about everything you can think of.

My 2011 Toyota Corolla has been 100% reliable and never fails to get me to and from work every day and a million people would love to have a car as steady and reliable.

But that doesn't stop me from wanting a Harley Fatboy. 

People can tell me all the things dangerous, inconvenient and expensive about getting and riding a Fatboy and it's fair of them to advise me to always wear a helmet and take motorcycle safety courses etc.

But no one has the right to tell me I shouldn't want it and that I should settle and be content with a Corolla forever and never try riding a Harley.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> But no one really has the right to tell I shouldn't want it and that I should settle and be content with a Corolla forever and never try riding a Harley.


Sure....

But what if you had to sell the Corolla to take even one ride on the Harley? What if that meant you would no longer have a car, but instead had to borrow rides on motorcycles? 

What if that meant your family no longer had a car to get them where they needed to go, because dad wanted to take a spin on a Harley?

The thing is with this choice, with this want - it affects other people. It has a bearing on his responsibility and commitments he had made. Once he signed up for married life, he choose the Corolla rather than the free lifestyle of a biker. 

Sure, he can feel jealous every-time a Harley rumbles by. But unless his wife also wants to sell the sedan, and ride motorcycles - his choice of freedom will also mean losses of the life he has built. 

My dad? For years he roared around on all sorts of motorcycles. But when he chose to get married, when he choose to have children, he had to give up the bikes and buy a sedan instead. 

That is the natural order of things. Its unfortunate that the OP did now sow his wild oats when it was a reasonable time to do so. Before he committed to others.


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## SA2017 (Dec 27, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It applies to just about everything you can think of.
> 
> My 2011 Toyota Corolla has been 100% reliable and never fails to get me to and from work every day and a million people would love to have a car as steady and reliable.
> 
> ...



what are you talking about? are you comparing STUFF to a vow bonded marriage? are you serious? 

God, that's why society is so doomed these days.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SA2017 said:


> what are you talking about? are you comparing STUFF to a vow bonded marriage? are you serious?
> 
> God, that's why society is so doomed these days.


The concept is the same.

It's fair to point out risks and pitfalls and ramifications.

It's prudent to advise on ways to minimize the risks and mitigate the potential outcomes.

But it's not fair to tell people they shouldn't want what they want and that they should just keep their mouths shut and settle for what they have because others want it. 

And it's especially not fair for people who have been with dozens and dozens of people to say that he isn't missing anything and that he shouldn't want to be with anyone else ever again.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

oldshirt said:


> It applies to just about everything you can think of.
> 
> My 2011 Toyota Corolla has been 100% reliable and never fails to get me to and from work every day and a million people would love to have a car as steady and reliable.
> 
> ...


Your thought process is far too alien to make your points stick with me.

Comparing a wife and family to bikes and cars seems beneath my contempt.

Being tempted is natural.

Committing to a marriage and then deciding you want to f around is a different thing.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I shouldnthave said:


> Sure....
> 
> But what if you had to sell the Corolla to take even one ride on the Harley? What if that meant you would no longer have a car, but instead had to borrow rides on motorcycles?


You can still WANT it, even if you never get it because there could/would be consequences. Eventually - and for most people - it will become an unrealizable fantasy, or even fade away. 

Sometimes, however, you CAN negotiate to get what you want and not lose anything else in the process. I've seen that many, many times.

Caveat emptor, AND carpe diem both apply.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I shouldnthave said:


> Sure....
> 
> But what if you had to sell the Corolla to take even one ride on the Harley? What if that meant you would no longer have a car, but instead had to borrow rides on motorcycles?
> 
> ...


And so too might the OP choose to stick with the Corolla.

Or he and his wife may be able to problem solve and come up with budgets and creative money making projects that they can afford both the corolla and the Harley. 

They both have agency. They both have the right to negotiation, collaboration, compromise and veto. 

Things don't always have to be black or white. Things don't always have to be all or nothing.

But my main point is no one has the right to tell anyone they shouldn't want what they want and that they should shut up and sit in the corner and never strive for their dreams just because Simon Sez and just people someone doesn't approve of what they want.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

WAS said:


> Thanks OldShirt. She is open to considering a FFM, but worried about any risk to our relationship. Which I totally understand.
> 
> And thank you for your comments. It seems most on this forum either dont understand full, honest communication, or are just taking a holier than thou approach to life. We are very close, and discuss everything with full respect to one another.


WAS, I think that open and honest communication is key to any marriage even when you know the other person might be bothered by it. Since my wife and I have some experience with this I can give you a little advice.

First talk about this for at least a month before going for it.

Second do not pressure her to do this. If she does it because of pressure you are drastically increasing the chances of serious after the fact consequences. 

Third be prepared to talk about it after the fact as much as either of you need to.

Fourth expect for her to decide she wants to be with another man at some point. Doesn't always happen but many of the couples who started with just a FFM went on to lots of other things. 

Take things slowly and be very sure you are both 100% certain this is what you want. For us it worked very well. It only made the sex with each other hotter, and it definitely made us closer. It brought us to a whole new level of trust. We had our rules and stuck to them. We never did anything with any people we know and we never did anything anywhere near our home, always on trips. 

Again it all starts lives and dies with open honest communication.


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## I shouldnthave (Apr 11, 2018)

Married but Happy said:


> Sometimes, however, you CAN negotiate to get what you want and not lose anything else in the process. I've seen that many, many times.
> 
> Caveat emptor, AND carpe diem both apply.


Sure, but the wife has to be a willing participant.

People have all sorts of relationships, it's up to the couple to define them. Unless his wife is on board, totally comfortable with him having sex with someone else - it has a high potential for negative consequences.

Because while I have also seen it go well before, I have also seen this blow up terribly, even when both partners thought it was what they wanted.

My husband and I were invited into a swinging community for a while. It was very interesting to see the various couple dynamics - the successes, and the absolute train wrecks, including divorces directly related to opening up their marriages.

In the end, the experience was perfect for us, we got a behind the scenes view, an education, and the information to decide it wasn't for us.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I shouldnthave said:


> Sure, but the wife has to be a *willing* participant


Yes, this is the absolute minimum requirement for both, IMO. We've met many newbie couples in the swinging community, and often we'll discourage them from pursuing it, as it's clear they're not equally interested/committed to the idea. Sure, some reluctance is normal at first, but pressure is always a red flag. I'm glad that many listened to us. We've only ever seen one couple divorce over swinging (that we know of), out of thousands we've met. It seems that a minority are _compatibly dysfunctional_, though! The lack of problems we've seen may in part be due to the very large, very closely knit local swinger community we have, with some very supportive organizers who advise anyone who comes to group events. 

There are indeed many dynamics going on, as there are many subgroups that want certain things from the experience. We enjoyed ourselves greatly for about 10 years.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MAJDEATH said:


> I was talking about 100 yrs ago, when neighborhood brothels were common and visiting one was not grounds for a judge to approve a divorce.


Yes, it was common 100 years ago that a man could cheat all he wanted. Women of course could not because they were financially dependent.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

I think OP should just take some serious time and think what if...

What if she decided that she wanted a different man, that OP didn't do it for her. And she NEEDED to have this before she gets all old and whatnot? What if she says that you guys were married way young and she just missed out on riding the c*ck carousel and wants to experience bigger and better? 

Seriously examine how you would feel. How would you see the relationship with her in the future. How can you even say that fidelity even matters after the fact. What if the partner is better and bigger and she just now makes a choice to include said partner for the rest of your days? Can you handle that?

Matter of fact: Try to recite the vows you took when you two got married. Can you honestly say that you are upholding them? If she was to do this to you, could you say that she was upholding the vows of your marriage?


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Usually, if there is a strong desire to sleep with a woman other than your wife then it's not because you want to sleep with 'more women', it's because you are not (and probably never have been) attracted to your wife in the first place. You probably wouldn't know this because you never slept or never have been with anyone else.

I can tell you that I have never slept with anyone else either except my wife and I never had this desire because I am crazy attracted to her. For me, more vaginas are subject to the law of diminishing returns. Find a good one that you actually are crazy about and stick with it (or into it).


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> As far as I am concerned, every single heterosexual man on the planet has a certain degree of yearning for some sexual variety and be with a number of different women.


Sexual variety?: yes. Different women?: no.

You can have a lot of sexual variety with the same woman. I never experienced these 'yearnings' for other women, people keep talking about. I must be abnormal.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> Don't know what you got, till it's gone...
> 
> First, take her on an exotic weekend to a tropical location with a hired adonis/sex god and sit back and relax as you watch him reduce your wife to puddles of quivering orgasms over and over, in every conceivable way for the entire weekend and get back to us on your idea.


Are you offering services?


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

WAS said:


> Hello,
> I could use some advice. Ive been with my wife for nearly 20 yrs. We have 2 kids, a full life and home together, and a great marriage overall with lots of love. My issue is we got together pretty young, and she has been my only lover. Growing up I was very sexually repressed and insecure. My wife has always been very free and loving, a big part of what attracted me to her. She had a few partners before me, and Ive always felt major regret at not sleeping with anyone else before "settling down". I frequently feel the need to be with another woman, and sometimes its overwhelming.
> 
> I have never acted on this out of fear of losing everything we've made together, but I don't want to live with this regret either. I am not looking for love or any kind of emotional connection, just sex with another woman. I have openly discussed this with her and would even love to include her, but shes not at all interested. Any advice? Thanks.


I will give you the words of a former colleague: "You may be suffering under the delusion that acting on this may relieve your desire to do so again."


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

inmyprime said:


> Are you offering services?


Hahaha!!! No.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

happyhusband0005 said:


> WAS, I think that open and honest communication is key to any marriage even when you know the other person might be bothered by it. Since my wife and I have some experience with this I can give you a little advice.
> 
> First talk about this for at least a month before going for it.
> 
> ...


I agree. this was our experience as well except we talked about and took tiny, incremental baby steps for almost two years before we had any actual sex with other people.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I agree. this was our experience as well except we talked about and took tiny, incremental baby steps for almost two years before we had any actual sex with other people.


Yes we kicked it around for a couple of years before doing anything. Also our getting involved in the lifestyle began with her wanting to be with a woman.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

My wife had experience before me.
I lacked experience before her.

I have never desired another sexual partner. I have, on occasion, desired greater frequency/variety/intensity... _but always with her. _Period. 

You are looking in the wrong place here. Your only real course is to improve your sex life_ with your wife._


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