# Another Perspective



## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

As I review many of the posts on this site, it is clear that there is a lot of conventional wisdom on how to handle spousal affairs.

A lot of the advice didn't feel natural for me (I am definitely a nice guy).

I wanted to update my situation about 2 months after D Day.

I never came out with my guns blazing when I discovered my wife's affair. I was shocked and hurt but I knew pretty much right away that I wanted to work things out.

Was it our many years (11) of marriage and history ? 3 kids ? fear of change ? I'm not sure but I knew in my gut this is what I ultimately wanted.

Many nights I fantasized about separation, being with someone new etc. But these feelings faded with time...

I recognized that my wife did have very strong feelings for OM (himself married with kids living in a different city).

I know where he lives, works, his wife's name etc. but never contacted anyone.

I believed that my wife would need some time to get over this guy but was ultimately committed to our marriage and kids.

I did not take a Draconian stance on her communications/e-mails etc. She needed time...

We got into marriage counselling and I focused on trying to improve our marriage (I can control these things not her feelings).

I thought if she leaves me, she leaves me but in my gut, at the end of the day, I didn't believe this would happen.

First 4-5 weeks were very hard, a lot of distance between us... I wondered why she didn't try more to make things up and seemed so distant. She said she was not sure how to approach me and felt terrible for hurting me.

I did work on letting go, not communicating as often etc. and the results were instantaneous.

The counsellor has been very good, non-judgemental and we are both really benefitting from this process.

This has been a wake-up call and I am definitely more engaged in her and our marriage than before.

We are starting to turn the corner and I see very good things ahead.

I am not responsible for the affair and I don't condone what she has done nor will I ever forget it.

Many people might blast my approach,call me stupid,naive, I don't really care.

For me this approach has worked and she is starting to talk about OM,closure etc. which tells me it has gone from something they had outside of our mge to something within it.

I am pretty sure we are going to be OK.

For those of you a little less militant in your views, I want to say that sometimes a softer approach can work.

Men tend to have affairs for sex and women for love. This one approach fits all doesn't seem to be the way to go in my opinion.

We are not out of the woods yet but we and I have come a hell of a long way from DDay...


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

First, congratulations for doing what you felt is right for you and your situation. There is no one size fits all answer. Everyone's unique with unique backgrounds. We all need to do what works for us.

Some folks here could not do what you've done, and that's OK too.

Thanks for sharing. All perspectives help us all.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Oh really? So how do you know for certain that the A is over? How do you know if she is still in contact with her OM? How do you know that she has not simply taken the A underground? And what consequences have you laid out to ensure that she does not do this again?

Yes, as you say, you're not out of the woods yet, not by a long shot. *You're only 2 months from DDay*. You say the softer approach can work, yet you haven't even made it to R yet. But since you don't care, that's fine. I haven't read a successful R story yet where the BS hasn't been firm. See land2634's thread.

All you're setting yourself up for is False R. She isn't learning a thing and she knows there are no real consequences for this A. Maybe you'll wake up once you realize that she's still in the A with her OM, or when she goes out and f*cks OM#2, OM#3, OM#4, etc.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Glad to hear you guys are working out.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I agree that in recovery 1 size does not fit all. Depends on the people involved and their willingness to do the right thing. Also depends on just how bad the marrige was. If the WS does not want back in, or really would rather be with the affair partner, then you don't stand a chance.

You cannot force someone to come back to you after an affair.

I feel like if I had been a d1ck to my wife after the affair she would have left. Because I was a d1ck before the affair. I had to make a change for the better and let her know that I loved her and wanted to be with her.

Call me a doormat if you like. I wanted her and I got her back. And I feel very confortable that we are going to be fine now.

But.....if it happens again. I'm not ever going through this again.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I won't put up with another affair either and my wife knows that.

I have taken off my wedding ring and given it back to her saying when you are ready and you have just me in our heart give it back.

Over time I will be more vigilant in looking at information communication etc. (She did take off BBerry password and I do periodically pick it up and look).

I am simply thinking that for her some time for closure is needed. This does not mean I will put my hand in the sand for the rest of our marriage.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Ok, I get it. She's just starting to talk to her OM about getting closure. * So as long as she's still in contact with her OM, the affair is still ongoing*, just talking as far as you know. 

Or maybe they are talking about taking the A underground and waiting for the dust to settle, huh? At first I thought you were a year out from DDay, then I saw you were only 2 months out. *So you hope to successfully wean her gradually from her OM?*


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I totaly dig what you wrote about her bring the affair from out of the marriage and into it.

For me that made alot of sence. It worked for us, granted the details were hard to swollow, but as long as I stayed calm and just listened the more info I got and it just seemed like it was the right direction we needed to go.

The more comfortable my wife became talking about her affairs the easier it was to talk about for her, and that is one important thing here, and that is getting all the crap out on the table.

Once every thing is on the table then some real communication can happen, and with that some learning for both of us.


Way to go


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

lordmayhem said:


> She's just starting to talk to her OM about getting closure.


I think you misread that part. OP used "about the OM", not "to the other man". Big difference.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

827Aug said:


> I think you misread that part. OP used "about the OM", not "to the other man". Big difference.


That may be but the _"I did not take a Draconian stance on her communications/e-mails etc. She needed time..." _leads to the assumption that contact is still ongoing.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I am first and foremost working on me outside and inside the marriage.

I am trying to be less of a nice guy.

I see these things having a real impact.

As far as OM and wife, affair is over. She needs time to get over her feelings for him.

I have little control over this.

I won't wait forever but I will give her some space now.

From a man's perspective, affairs are more about sex so going underground etc. might be a strategy to employ. My wife recognizes that at the end of the day they can't be together and she is doing herself more harm than good continuing things on.

We were fortunate that some really good friends, he had a mid-life crisis and hooked up with a much younger women left his wife and four kids. The women is my wife's best friend and she can see the devastation this is creating for her best friend and kids. This helped snap her out of things and I really think her mind not her emotions are running her right now.

But who knows, six months from now, I could be posting that she did it to me again and I'm back at square one...

I don't think so but anything is possible...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't want to "blast" you, but I want to offer some thoughts...

You have learned something about yourself, and she was learned something about you. You will learn something about the path you decided to take. But, all these lessons will take a longtime. 

It would be nice to hear about the results and the lessons... But you will have long forgotten this place by then. For now, all the hurt desperate souls here get to hear all about this wonderful new wheel you reinvented and maybe they will try it too. Why not? It’s infinitely easier than stepping outside of their comfort levels and meeting this betrayal head on. 

You couldn’t be more wrong about the “conventional” way of dealing with things. The conventional way of dealing with things is the way you are doing it. It’s easier. But you don’t hear about those people. Most just lurk quietly and stay in the shadows in pain, along for the ride. Some experience some initial success with the passive approach and a few stand on top of a mountain and scream down here about the how they did things “their way” and how great things are going…. 

Then… ??? Where do they go after that? Where are the updates? Do they come back and share more details on the continued success of this wonderful approach and the sustained success? Do they write a book to help others by sharing this? Where are the books? All the books on infidelity how come none outline the benefit of letting the affairs "run their course?" Do they limp back in here and admit that they were too weak or too nice or a person to handle things differently and if they would have maybe things could have been different? Do the share those lessons or do they take those hard lessons quietly and move on with their lives? 

The way explained here is NOT conventional; it’s hard and very much against the grain of anyone’s comfort level but it works. It’s proven to give you the best opportunity to salvage your marriage and have a genuine chance at sustained happiness.

No one here says that there isn’t room in the process to “be true to yourself” or be understanding and civil about the recommended methodology for infidelity survival… It comes off at times like its aggressive and harsh and very much an “alpha” approach… but really it’s not. It’s framed that way and presented that way to people to get them “closer” to that approach to get them outside of the comfort zone, to have them stand tall and fight back… In reality we all love our disloyal spouses and much of that love leaks into this process. We hurt for them as much as we hurt for ourselves at times. But, this is what gives us all the best chance to survive this so we step outside our comfort level and do what gives us the best chance BECAUSE we love them..


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> As far as OM and wife, affair is over. She needs time to get over her feelings for him.
> 
> I have little control over this.
> 
> I won't wait forever but I will give her some space now.


And how exactly do you know the A is over? Did you merely take her word for it? How long has she been NC with OM? Sorry if my questions seem hard, just need to understand your situation. You know that WS are really drug addicts when it comes to affairs, right? The adrenaline rush, the dopamine that's excreted into her brain, plus the feel good chemicals that she absorbed through her vagina from his semen, all combine to give her the high during the A. From a physical standpoint, it truly is an addiction that's difficult to get over, which is why they usually can't stop it on their own. This is why they need to go cold turkey and just go NC, otherwise they will always be looking for their fix.

Yes, I understand that there is a mourning period after the A is over, but it usually doesn't last very long if there are consequences involved. When consquences are involved, then they are scrambling to save the marriage and don't have much time left to mourn their affair with the OM. 

Oh, and I have a thread at another forum, where the WW is mourning the affair, and it was only an EA. She struggled with NC with her OM for almost a year, breaking NC during the first 5 months of NC before finally sticking to NC.


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## whammy (Apr 22, 2011)

All i see is a guy saying "love other man, more then you ever loved me, as long as you want... ill be your second choice. You can settle for me as long as Im not alone."

this will not go away... but you should


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> Right now this feeling is stronger than my desire for knowledge (I suspect they are still in contact and closure will take some time). This seems to not be how things are supposed to go from here.
> 
> I would appreciate any comments on the trade off for absolute truth vs avoiding pain.





Looking to heal said:


> My wife and I have 3 kids. Neither of us wants or can imagine raising them separately.
> 
> There has been *some infidelity* on her side that we are working through.
> 
> We are seeing a marriage counsellor.


These quotes are from your other threads. It's disturbing that you are minimizing her affair, and that you would rather avoid the truth and avoid the pain. And now you are once again taking the easy route by trying to quickly forgive and forget, which doesn't address at all what you two are doing to prevent this from happening again in the future, if indeed it is over. From your other thread, she told you it was over and you have taken her word for it.

Being a nice guy in this particular situation is just going to result in you getting run over......repeatedly. But that's up to you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

Please keep postings respectful towards OP. After all both husband and wife are working on reconciliation through a marriage counselor. OP was nice enough to share their current status and progress with all of us. His path may lead to long-term success or it may not......but, we aren't here to bash him. Nowhere in today's post did he solicit advice.

Forum Guideline #6 will be enforced!

6. Be supportive of others and their desire to have happier, healthier relationships.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Tough love ?

Just had a good MC session + good communication with wife and seeing some hope...

I'll move on to something else. Not a lot of encouragement on this site...


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> Oh, and I have a thread at another forum, where the WW is mourning the affair, *and it was only an EA.* She struggled with NC with her OM for almost a year, breaking NC during the first 5 months of NC before finally sticking to NC.



Lordmayhem, I usually agree with you. I have to say that this phrase gets under my skin. Not just you, but many people say that, "it was only an EA." You know my situation. An EA is, in my opinion, worse than some PA's. A drunken one night stand would be much easier than a deep emotional attachment, as in my wife's EA.


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Time for someone to speak up from the other side I guess.

Some of you are acting kind of bitter. I know if I had "played by the rules" so to speak, I would have pushed my wife away. She needed to know that I was there for her emotionally or she would have been gone.....end of story.

Everyone's situation is different. If you have a spouse in the fog and you need to 180, that is fine. If you have a spouse out of the fog you may be dooming whatever is left of your marrige by doing a 180. It all depends on your situation.

I'm not about to tell anyone what they should and should not do because I do not know their situation. I only know mine and what worked for me. 

No one here knows the right way to do this stuff. There are no experts here. We are here to get the opinions and support from others in similar situations.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

In my case, I did exposure. She is very bitter and resentful about that. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know. It didn't do any good, really. In my case, it certainly didn't have the intended effect. It just seemed to push her deeper into the affair. I'm not saying exposure never works or that the advice here isn't good. I'm just saying that each situation is unique. I hope that it works out for you.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Let me try and clarify my views or what I was trying to communicate.

I have read a lot on the topic of affairs/recovering etc. and I do value all feedback.

I know an affair is analagous in some ways to drug addiction. Anyone who has been in a long term relationship remembers how exciting year 1 is vs later years.

It is very difficult to get someone off drugs and maybe drastic measures are often or even always required. Is it not possible a person can realize that these drugs are harmful hurting their spouse/family and leave the fog on their own ?

I know that reconciliation can't really occur if contact with OM is still ongoing. I am wondering what is the best strategy to get contact to cease in light of the fact that there are some feelings involved ?

I know that for trust to be rebuilt is is up to the DS to be open and overcommunicate and I will have to as well. Again, I am wondering what is the best timing for this to occur immediately or after the dust settles a little ?

I know the MC is not the be all and end all. She has been a good catalyst for more communication between myself and my wife. So far she has not come across as judgemental of my wife and I think this has helped to keep her less defensive and build up trust in her and the process.

I can see things heading in the direction they need to as far as communication passwords etc. maybe just not as quickly as some think it should.

Yet, in the back of my mind, I can't help wonder if this is a little to soft of an approach under the circumstances.

Any constructive advice is appreciated.

Not particularly helpful is images of my wife continuing the affair having ten more etc.

Any books that can be recommended ?

It's more the tactics and strategies of getting to the end game I am looking for in light of the fact I am a nice guy and some of the approaches suggested in the short term don't feel quite right is what I was looking for.

Has anyone used a softer approach and has this worked ?

If not why not ?

Any general timetable for where things should be over 2 months to 1 year or longer ?


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

I did use a softer approach and it worked. 6 months out and things get better every day. Whats left of the mess seems to be only in my head in fact.

I sent you a private message since this thread will probably get deleted.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

L2H, like you I am also a nice guy capable of infinite forgiveness (well maybe not infinite, but even my W's affair I was quickly able to "forgive"). Like you I also wanted to take up my cross in all of this, accept my part of the failure of our marriage... but in my case I could see that it wouldn't make any difference to making our marriage right (as I view marriage should be). She was still walking and so I've been forced to change my views and approach to this, and part of me taking up my cross means learning how to put up my boundaries and defend them.

The reason I'm telling you this is because I can relate strongly to you and am genuinely concerned about you getting hurt more, you have reached out for help and I have to agree with other commenters on this thread that you may be minimizing the affair and the damage it has caused to your relationship, I also see how that just enables your wife to not take ownership of her betrayal of trust you had.

Like PIT said, there are no "experts" on this, each relationship is different and has its unique dynamics. Perhaps the softer approach will work for you... in my case I too didn't come out with guns blazing but I was forced to accept that it wasn't going to actually repair the damage, nor take care of my needs and now I can see that if my W had just paid me lip service the soft approach would certainly have FELT like progress (in reality was just avoiding the real issue). But even if it is making progress for your marriage you still need to prepare yourself for the possibility it is superficial, you still need to be diligent in protecting your needs in all of this.

I wish you all the best and truly hope you and your wife find reconciliation...


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

it-guy said:


> this thread will probably get deleted.


Hopefully not! It's good to have other perspectives without being fearful of attack. Please continue to share.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

HurtinginTN said:


> In my case, I did exposure. She is very bitter and resentful about that. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know. It didn't do any good, really. In my case, it certainly didn't have the intended effect. It just seemed to push her deeper into the affair. I'm not saying exposure never works or that the advice here isn't good. I'm just saying that each situation is unique. I hope that it works out for you.


I exposed it and it didn't work for the marriage. What it did stop was her introducing the OM [married] to my children since my oldest [16] knew his name and was not "overly pleased" at the suggestion.


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## Clinging (May 14, 2011)

LTH
I am a Woman whose H has had an affair and I am like you - a nice person. I never did the 180 as I know my H and if he felt I didn't want to talk to him, he would leave me alone. We have been married for 31 years. We are starting to communicate again after 6 weeks. He has ended the affair, do I know that for sure, NO, we are currently apart. He has been going to counselling and sharing with me what the counseller is telling him. He is trying to "fix" him as this has happened before in our marriage and he told me last night that the counseller told him he would continue this path as it is a short term fix for him and the love he needs he could find at home if he opened his heart. My H is insecure and held long term resentment towards me for trivial things but it was his way of denying to himself what he was actually doing. He has hurt his children beyond belief and that bothers him. He is slowly coming out of the fog. What will happen to us, I don't know. I am letting him fix himself and then we will see. Can people change, I'm not sure but I took the nice approach, never exposed the affair to anyone. His parents and his children know, no one else. I have contacted a lawyer and he knows what he will lose in a divorce, financially and his children. Even if we do divorce, I am not an angry person and do not want to take bitterness with me for the rest of my life so I am with you, take whatever approach you need too ,only you know your spouse and how they will react.

I read and get suggestions from everyone and appreciate everyone's comments and thoughts. You see similiarities in everyone's situation, some people are worse off than you are, some people can't tolerate anything and some are more like doormats, which I probably fall into the latter category.

Do what works for you. I am not reconcilling yet but feel better about where I am at than I did 6 weeks ago.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

HurtinginTN said:


> In my case, I did exposure. She is very bitter and resentful about that. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know. It didn't do any good, really.


IMO.. Yes, it was the right thing to do. Absolutely without a shred of doubt. The truth is always the right thing to do regardless of the outcome. You could drive yourself nuts and likely do (i have at times) with the "what if I did this, what if I said this, what if, what if, what if" how would things be then? Second, third & fourth guessing is unavoidable... Well you told the truth. You don't have to second guess that, the truth is always the right thing to do. Regardless of the outcome, you stood up and fought the lie they are living and you did what was right. 

These things can not be allowed to stay in the dark. They feed on that. As I said in another thread recently, Affairs are just like Mushrooms... They grow in the dark and feed on bullsh*t... Turn on the lights and take away the crap. 



HurtinginTN said:


> In my case, it certainly didn't have the intended effect. It just seemed to push her deeper into the affair.


Just a thought.... Perhaps it didnt push her any deeper, you just became more acutely aware of exactly how deep she already was? Maybe it was a factor in preventing her from quietly going any deeper without your knowledge? It was going to escalate regardless, the drive for them to take the "next step" was already building. Your exposure had nothing to do with that.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Exposure may not work to save the marriage if the affair is of the exit type but it will certainly poison any attempts by the DS to introduce their lover to their families as 'a good friend' of theirs. Their families will know the truth and in many cases will refuse to have the home wrecker go into their homes.


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## HurtinginTN (Feb 22, 2011)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> As I said in another thread recently, Affairs are just like Mushrooms... They grow in the dark and feed on bullsh*t... Turn on the lights and take away the crap.


That is what I thought, too. The floodlights didn't even slow the growth of this mushroom. Perhaps if the OM was married, it would have worked. In my case, he is a single man with nothing at all to lose. I exposed to his parents, but he doesn't have a good relationship with them and obviously doesn't care what they think. I imagine exposure is most powerful if the OM/OW is married.

At least her family knows his name and everything. We just spent 4 days at a state park with her family. Us, her parents, and her 3 sisters' families. I told her that OM would never be able to do that. I seriously doubt he will ever be welcome at family events.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

HurtinginTN, I still think it is good you exposed this to her family, nothing you can do about the OM if nobody cares what he is doing. My wife was ticked that I told her family, early on she asked me to not tell them, I reluctantly agreed thinking it would give her time to tell them herself or that they'd guess at the truth, but I told them anyway because not doing so was festering in me and honestly it wasn't my shame. My W wanted to keep it all secret, she was grasping at anything that would make me fear the consequences of revealing more to her family, saying she'd expose all my dirty little secrets etc, except she presumed that I was still accepting the blame for her affair - I've changed and realized it is not my shame to carry... is there private details about me I don't want other to know about? well maybe but its nothing that makes me a bad person just the kind of intimate stuff you confide with your spouse (the worst thing I could think about is my sexual habits or fantasies, and she's pretty much been open with her close friends and female family members revealing all of that anway), if she shares those little things who looks worse, me for having a typical libido or her for trying to drag my name through the mud?

The truth gives you back the power.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

As I've attempted R (now DDay+58 days) I have chosen not to expose to family & friends - but did to OM's wife. I am comfortable with both decisions, and still say that you have to do what is comfortable and right for you. Forums like this can help you collect inputs to help you make decisions -- not make decisions for you.

That said, I *do* think you're being too patient/soft in dealing with her. Not being an azz, but in standing up for your marriage. NOT demanding NC as a first step is being a doormat, sorry. if she can't/won't commit to stopping things with him - regardless of her "feelings"* (which I'm sorry, they do not have any place in your marriage) - then why would you commit to being there for her if & when she decides she's had enough of the OM? The fact that there are "feelings" involved is EXACTLY why you need to be insisting on NC, in a way you've approved of. It's taking away the crack pipe and the crack from the addict. Leaving the dope in the back room and saying 'don't go in the back room where the crack is' does not make for a successful strategy... 

Beyond NC should also be full transparency into email/FB/chat/cellphone... I'm sure this will feel too aggressive to you as well, but there is every reason for you to have it, and absolutely NO reason for you not to have it.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

You could gently as your wife to stop contacting the OM and very gently tell her how much her continuing to love him is hurting you. BUT you should not be a nag about it, maybe you could gently remind her once every two weeks, that way it doesn't look like you're pressuring her to make a decision that would make her feel bad.

If after 6 months have passed and she is still in contact with OM, you could always turn on the water works and beg and plead, preferably on your knees because it makes you appear less threatening. Now this is the last straw and it always works and will make her see the error of her ways and she will respect you and love you more.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

maybe negotiate with the OM for joint custody of your wife? 

or at least he should be responsible for wife support of some sort? Unfair he gets primary custody of her heart and attention while you babysit, pay the bills and do all the work?

:tongue/cheek:


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## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

*sarcasm radar is going nuts right now from the above...*

 seriously though, i wish i could be so patient and tolerant with my H sometimes. hope it works for you.


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## 827Aug (Apr 27, 2008)

I guess the sarcasm on board is confusing me......I thought you said the affair is over and she is having no contact with the other man now? And she has taken the passwords off her blackberry and you freely look at it? If those things are accurate, it is progress.


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## WhiteRabbit (May 11, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> As far as OM and wife, affair is over. She needs time to get over her feelings for him.
> 
> I have little control over this.
> 
> I won't wait forever but I will give her some space now.


this states affair is over


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

She has told me the affair is over and contact has ceased.

She has removed her BBerry password. I am free to look at it. I don't have the password to her e-mail. I am hoping this will provided soon.

We are in marriage counselling and its going well.

She has/had strong feelings for OM and is in the process of grieving/getting over him.

I am trying to incorporate this into our reconciliation.

In our last session she said she was close to being completely over OM.

I am angry at what has happened and at her and there is a lot still to do. I think I will give her another few weeks and start to take a harder approach as far as what I need to fully regain trust.

She is quite a direct and frank person and generally doesn't lie (of course people will point out the affair). It was more honest I think for her to say she does have strong feelings for this guy and needs to get over him as opposed to on day 1 saying its over and then getting a secret e-mail account etc.

This was very hard to hear. I would have much prefered it to have been a meaningless one night stand.

I think there is progress being made here...

Will update this in a few months.


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## uhaul4mybaggage (Jul 20, 2010)

Doormat route for 4 years failed miserably for me. Just gave him time to plan his exit his way.

It's your life, your marriage. You have to do it the way you see fit. But A LOT of us began as understanding, forgiving, all those great traits you are showing. 

Maybe get a copy of the vows you actually spoke or agreed to from your clergyman, and take that with you to counseling. Then the 3 of you can discuss what they mean, and if BOTH of you are still committed to them all. Just an idea. Good luck.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking to heal said:


> She has/had strong feelings for OM and is in the process of grieving/getting over him.
> 
> I am trying to incorporate this into our reconciliation.


I tried that too at one point, I don't recall posting it or not. But after she was clearly going through the 2nd bout of withdraw (went through it once, she broke NC then 2nd attempt at NC started a week or so later... (yeah there was a 3rd too)) but anyway while she was suffering through 2nd withdraw I tried to be caring and understanding about her pain... I even bought her flowers & took them to her at her work saying "I'm sorry your in so much pain"....

Well that turned out to be disasterous. It would just be speculating to say that my weakness was the reason she broke NC again after that. No way to know, she may have done it anyway... BUt she was trying to resist her "drug", I think. I don't think I helped her resolve by showing weakness. Anyway... Trying to incorporate her withdraw recovery into our marriage recovery was a HUGE mistake.

I do thoroughly believe that a stronger stance and fear of consequences/reprocussions to breaking NC may have been the tiny difference when she was faced with the decision to do it or not do it.. This applies when there is a very thin line between calling the OM or not... in those spots of weakness (which they will have a lot of) just a sliver can make the decision to do it or not... and knowing that "I was understanding" and empathatic to her pain gave her no real fear of consequences and may have tipped the scales just enough to break her will to resist contacting him...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

this may sound odd... but think of it in the abstract....

Your DS is a child.

They need us to be strong. They need us to be solid. Someone faced with an addiction recovery is very similiar to a child (in so many ways it's creepy at times) and they have the same basic needs as a child needs from their parent. It's not about being their friends, It's about being strong, setting clear expectations and boundries. Giving them a sense of security and a clear framework decision making and consequences. They are lost.


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## totallyconfused (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm a nice guy too.

So, I've posted in other forums about how I got where I am now. I've done about half of the steps in the 180 and not done half. The result, we've got a half-assed R. (She's not cheating, but we're not bonding very well and only on her terms.)

She continued to break NC until I asked for a divorce. She asked to R. She didn't follow through with the intimacy. I haven't threatened D again. Result: we're cohabitating, co-parenting, getting along, and she's not cheating, but there's no love.

I wouldn't recommend my approach.

I'm trying to get the nerve up to say "I know longer really care. Finish the rest of what I asked for or we're done".

That's what I should have done 2 years ago at D-Day or 1 year ago when I finally threatened D. Whether it works or not, I need to do it for me. However, it's so easy to realize it's good advice and to recommend it to others. It's so hard to do. I'll get there though.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I read the detailed description of the 180 and I am doing (not deliberately) many of those things.

I did say to her that I often think about separation which seemed to surprise her and she said: "I can't imagine us not together".

I am communicating a lot less during the day, giving her time and space and the result seems to be she is calling me more and communicating more.

I am doing more things outside the marriage in terms of activities and I am working on myself.

I discovered the affair vs she disclosed it. She said she didn't want to hurt me and our family. If I'm being perfectly honest, I would probably have handled it the same way.

From here, lying is more of a deal-breaker. My position is that if I discover anything else or she is lying, we're done. She knows that.

I am not clinging to this marriage at all costs. I want things to work but I need to be happy too.

I can guarandamtee that if things are the same 2 years out I won't be in the marriage.

My single biggest issue right now is regaining trust in my wife. This will probably be an issue for a long time.

I don't want to share her in any way with anyone else and don't plan to.

What sucks is I feel like her best friend waiting for her to get over someone so we can date and I shouldn't have to I'm her f'ing husband.

I am nice but not a total doormat (just 3/4 doormat LOL)


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

You 'hope' to have her email password 'soon'...
...and you don't want to share her in any way, but will stand aside as she 'gets over' missing her OM (that she didn't tell you about because she didn't want to hurt you). 

I am all for you doing things your own way, and respect it, but I do think you've got to work on the spine you think you are showing. You said it yourself, you're waiting for her. And as long as she knows that, your feelings don't matter nearly as much. THAT is the issue here. You're not equals. She's in charge, despite your empty threat to separate.

I DO hope it works out for you, really.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Looking, I can identify. Really, I can.

My wife was deep into a couple of EA's for a long time, which she - naturally - didn't see as affairs, and I was still some time away from having even heard of the concept of an "emotional affair," so I went about things with a (far too) mellow approach. By the time she moved forward to a PA a year ago (with yet another person), I was struck so numb that, while I meant everything I said about potential consequences, there were so many balls being juggled in the air that I was overwhelmed, and chose to deal with the PA as the "immediate threat" and then deal with the EA's later. Many here - understandably so - questioned my wisdom in doing so. One o the EA's took care of itself...it was a lesbian friend of ours that my W had a crush on. (It was W's disclosure of the PA to her that led to me discovering it.) To mitigate some of her wrongdoing, my W fudged some of the details about the physical encounter, to make it seem less than 100% consentual, and on learning the truth - and upon realizing just how wrapped up in their own relationship my W was - this woman broke all contact with my W.

We began to work on reconciling. W claimed to finally see the damage the OM from her other EA was doing to us, and broke contact...but only took it further underground. I found out a mere handful of days before our first (and long overdue) MC session. Gave her an opportunity the night before the session to let me know if he'd "tried contacting her" and she said he hadn't. At MC the next day, I dropped copies of their emails in her lap. Literally. She agreed to formal NC with him, and to true transparency with me. Finally, in April, I discovered she'd been destiny with yet another guy and her PA partner.

I was ready to walk out the door. Texted her that I was Fallon in sick to work, canceling our MC session scheduled for the next day, and finding a lawyer. She rushed home from work, and instead of being numb, I was in a white hot rage...where I probably should have been last year. After a lot of yelling and screaming, my making the addiction analogy got her to sit down at the computer and start researching. She/we determined that her behavior fits the criteria of a sex and love addict. She found a Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous group in our area and started attending meetings. It's made a world of difference. We've still go a lot of hard work ahead of us, but we're getting better. She's on her last chance - many here would say, and I can understand their POV, that I've given her too many already - and she knows it.

What I'm getting at is that, I can understand the instinct to use kid gloves in a sensitive situation like this. But, it wasn't until I reached that tipping point...let my anger show along with the hurt that she'd seen...made her believe that, as the saying goes, I was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore, that she actually took it to heart.

I'm not trying to say you need to throw a temper tantrum if you don't feel it. But don't hide the anger just because you want to avoid conflict.

If you feel it, tell her: I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ahhhmaaaan! (Mar 26, 2011)

"I am nice but not a total doormat (just 3/4 doormat LOL)"- A doormat is a doormat, bro. Or do you only consider wiping your feet off only on the corners so the WELCOME sign is still legible. 

There's no script to follow when it comes to infidelity. You do what's best for you.


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## 8yearscheating (Oct 14, 2010)

Looking, go to the beyondaffairs.com network. Click on the seminars tab then the teleseminars tab. Listen to as many as you can. There is great cosntructive advise on ealing from an affair and about getting your souse to the right things for both of you to heal. Let me know what you think.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

The beyondaffairs.com website was very helpful. Thanks for recommending it.

Without getting into two much of the details, there is one more time for business where my wife will see OM in a group of many people. This occurs in September. This encounter cannot be avoided. After that, unlikely they will need to interact much for business.

This fact has impacted the pace of implementing some of the strategies i.e. N/C discussed in this thread and on this site.

OM works for a company that provides 40% to 50% of my wife's small business revenue. Many other individuals in this organization also work with my wife.

A project he is heading occurs in September and has been planned since beginning of year.

My wife offered to cancel her involvement in this project and I encouraged her not to.

My rationale (probably stupid) was I didn't want this to be something used in later discussions/conversations. 

After this project ends, I will be more aggressive in my approach and if I don't like where things are at in the fall, I will recommend we separate.

I will know we've tried to make things work, gone to counselling etc.

I am not afraid of separation, I fantasize about it alot. The hard thing is living as I am now, that would be easy in comparison for me. (I am not trying to minimize how hard this step was for other people who took it just saying that for me being with someone new some day who hasn't cheated on me holds a lot of appeal)

I am not making threats to her about separation. If I get to that point, I really have no problem walking away...


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

If she has NO choice but to interact with him *for business*, she must still firmly establish NC with him regarding any and all non-business communication.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Sorry you're having to go through all this LTH, hopefully your wife will not fail you again.

I wanted to add something about taking a firm approach that I don't think anyone mentioned.

When I found out about my H's affair I thought it was only an EA at first. Even then, I told him we had a slim chance of surival. I couldn't contain my emotions and he got the full blast of my hurt and anger from his betrayal. Then, when he confessed the PA, it was a moment of calm in my emotional storm. I said something like, "Wow. That's it. We're getting divorced." He snapped to attention and started doing anything I asked for R.

Later my H said he had no idea I would react the way I did. He thought I'd be upset, but never imagined the reality of what he saw. He said he feels bad for feeling this, but he's never felt more loved by me then when he felt my reaction to his betrayal. The fact I want to check up on him, care where he is, want him all to myself, everything.... he doesn't feel confined by it. If anything, he's just happy I care.

My point... appearing too soft or weak may lead your wife to question how much you really want her. Some women want to feel like you'd fight for them. I'd like to think my H would tear someone a new @hole if someone tried to steal me from him. 

Only you know your wife and what will work best for R. I just wanted to make sure you look at all possible thoughts that might be going through her head.

If my H was not willing to do everything I asked when I took a hard stance on d-day, then I'd have my answer right away. Either OW was more important than me or I was not as important to my H as I thought, perhaps both. Our MC said I can't control my H's guilt or feelings by my actions. He's either going to feel it or not. The best one can do is to be honest with your own feelings and intentions. How they react will set the course to separation or R.

You don't need to threaten your wife with a separation, but she should now it's an option you are seriously considering. If she doesn't know, she's assuming it's not a possibility. Especially if she's still in a fog. It's not a threat if it's under consideration. I was not bluffing when I mentioned divorce to my H. I was ready at that moment to walk away.

Good luck!


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I did tell her I am thinking a lot about separation a few weeks ago to which she replied: "I can't Imagine us not together"

On Saturday I gave her a list of what I expected and what would be deal breakers for me i.e. no repeat offense, no lying, no communication (other than business if necessary)...

I wanted her to know exactly where I stood and I wanted it in writing so she couldn't say we didn't discuss it.

It is sad that separation or the threat of is the biggest "card" I have to play.

I generally don't like to play games. When I get to that point, I'll probably just want out regardless of her reaction.

She has been a little distant since I laid this out.

Not too concerned about that for now. We will see where things go...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking to heal said:


> It is sad that separation or the threat of is the biggest "card" I have to play.


It's not a threat. It's a consequence.

Very big difference.


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