# It's a VERY fresh wound and it HURTS



## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I am sure if you are on this board, you know the pain. I have just found out that my husband cheated on me, and it hurts. really bad. Here is the story

My husband is 30 and I am 25. 
My husband and I have had a rocky relationship since our four year old son was born. Something about the birth traumatized him (I think just the act in general) and we did not have a sex life for a year or so. He stayed away from me. This hurt my self esteem deeply. We sort of got over it after a LONG time... but the sex was still kinda of vanilla. Or one sided - he would give me no pleasure, only himself. He was extremely seflish. Also selfish in many other ways. 

So that was our life. Sucky sex. Maybe once every two weeks. We both work full time. I am also a full time student (worth it - graduating in MAY!!!). We have our a four year old. And 9 months ago, i got pregnant again. Yes - NINE MONTHS AGO and I am still pregnant now. Our baby will be here in the next 4 days. Throughout this pregnancy, sex has gone out the window again. This time, it was both of our faults.... we were both feeling weird about it. I felt insecure. He thought I was fragile or whatever. We haven't done it since I was about 5 months. And no other forms of sex either.

So I will cut to the story .... just thought you needed some background info....

Sunday night, my husband called me after work and said that he had to run an errand for his work before he left, and would be home soon (this is a common occurrence, so I thought nothing of it) I said okay see ya soon.
So when he got home, we hung out for a little, everything was normal. About an hour into being home, he ran to the store to get something for us. 
While he was gone, I noticed he left his Apple Watch. I decided to look through it. I found texts from some random number that went like this:

husband: 
#:when do you get off work?
husband: in just a few minutes. cool?
#: yeah, my address "..............."
husband: ok see you in a few


that was it. that was it but i knew what was happening. I typed the random number into facebook, and a girl he works with popped up. so it was her. These texts went on while he was "running an errand for work"

I immediately called him and confronted him. He made up some stories... the first was that this was a dudes number.. the second that it was in fact a girls number, but that the dudes phone died and he needed to talk to him through her. 

I told him I am not stupid. After some time, he actually told me the truth. he cheated on me. He says it was just oral, no intercourse. Doesn't matter to me. I am so hurt. BY the timing of when he got home and when the texts happen, he couldn't have been there for more than 10-15 minutes. If that. I do not see a long history of texts, just whats on the phone. I can see ingoing and outgoing calls and texts on the phone bill, and her number is no where on there.
This tells me they communicate in person at WORK.


He was immediately remorseful. Saying he was sorry. That he doesn't want to lose me. he knew it was wrong as soon as it started happening. he was crying.
I have never seen my husband cry before until then.


I of course, like I said, am very hurt. Confused. I am having a baby in 4 days. Our second child. It's almost Christmas, and our four year old is so excited. I decided to calm down and not freak out too much, because I do not want my daughters birth to be overshadowed by this, and I don't want Christmas to be either. I still do not know if I want to stay in the marriage - because the trust is RUINED. 

We went to marriage counseling yesterday, and it went well. I can understand how this all played out. I can see that he is trying for once, and we even had sex last night, me super pregnant (and it was my idea, something about territory - i couldnt let her be the last person to touch him ) The counseler says the think sthe marriage is saveable, given the characteristics of the "affair" (my husband says there is no emotional attachment, no relationship, she was just basically a ****ty girl at work who would do it, and that it was a last minute decision).

He tried to call her in front of me (his idea) to tell her he made a big mistake and that he loves his wife and blahblah, but she didnt answer. She knows what is going on - because I sent her a text the night of, letting her know that I was his PREGNANT wife and knew what was going on. And that I hoped karma got her one day. thats all i said.


I just don't know how to move forward. My counselor gave me some books to read. But I keep getting images of them together in my head. Like flashbacks. I keep imaging them together and it makes me so angry. I cry and cry and cry. I have barely eaten. I have lost 7 pounds just in the two days. I am so depressed over this. My husband has not been to work since, because he was scheduled off the last two days, but he will be going back to work today. All I can think about is she will be there. He works in a restaurant, so if you have ever worked in one before, you know how it can be. It's not uncommon for the management to get involved with the young wait staff. 

Does anyone have any advice for moving forward? 
If I do leave, I will wait about a month to make that decision. I want to get through the holidays and the birth.
I would like this to work out, if possible. I just don't know how it will work. I don't know if I will ever get over it.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I'd be surprised, given the history you have described, if this was his only affair. Were I you, I'd seriously consider paying for him to take a polygraph before making any decisions.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> I'd be surprised, given the history you have described, if this was his only affair. Were I you, I'd seriously consider paying for him to take a polygraph before making any decisions.


QFT

@adegirl2016 
I would doubt that this is "all" there was to it. If you read some of the other threads on here, you'll get familiar with the term "trickle truth". He's only going to give you a little at a time and usually only what you already know. I haven't dealt with any fidelity (& hope I never do) but trickle truth is a part of nearly every single story of infidelity (so is gaslighting). 

I'm sorry you're here; it's especially bad timing for you. I hope your childs birth goes well for you & baby. 

Others will be along to give better advice to you. . . .


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Sorry guys - I have never posted here before. I will break it down some more! It's all so hard to describe. The counselor asked me if I had any more questions, or if there was anything else I wanted to know about it. But I said no. This is all so hard to deal with given that the baby will be here any day. 

The scary thing is that if I would not have gone through his watch, I would have never known. I can't believe all of that can go down in a matter of 10 minutes.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

*If I do leave, I will wait about a month to make that decision. I want to get through the holidays and the birth.*

That's a solid plan; gives you a chance to think things over and judge his remorse. It's important that he understands what it feels like - to not know if he will lose his wife for cheating on her. Don't commit to stay for now.

One other thing you have to insist on if you want to consider R. Either she leaves that job or he does. Period. There can be absolutely no contact. If that doesn't happen, he's made the decision for you.

Sorry you're here.


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I am sure if you are on this board, you know the pain. I have just found out that my husband cheated on me, and it hurts. really bad. Here is the story
> 
> My husband is 30 and I am 25.
> My husband and I have had a rocky relationship since our four year old son was born. Something about the birth traumatized him (I think just the act in general) and we did not have a sex life for a year or so. He stayed away from me. This hurt my self esteem deeply. We sort of got over it after a LONG time... but the sex was still kinda of vanilla. Or one sided - he would give me no pleasure, only himself. He was extremely seflish. Also selfish in many other ways.
> ...


It is extremely normal for male and/or female to cut off the sex during pregnancy. It is often due to misconceptions, but more often due to lack of desire due to hormonal fluctuations/pain.



> So I will cut to the story .... just thought you needed some background info....
> 
> Sunday night, my husband called me after work and said that he had to run an errand for his work before he left, and would be home soon (this is a common occurrence, so I thought nothing of it) I said okay see ya soon.
> So when he got home, we hung out for a little, everything was normal. About an hour into being home, he ran to the store to get something for us.
> ...


Pretty obvious behavior. Similar story to what happened to me a long while ago.



> I immediately called him and confronted him. He made up some stories... the first was that this was a dudes number.. the second that it was in fact a girls number, but that the dudes phone died and he needed to talk to him through her.
> 
> I told him I am not stupid. After some time, he actually told me the truth. he cheated on me. He says it was just oral, no intercourse. Doesn't matter to me. I am so hurt. BY the timing of when he got home and when the texts happen, he couldn't have been there for more than 10-15 minutes. If that. I do not see a long history of texts, just whats on the phone. I can see ingoing and outgoing calls and texts on the phone bill, and her number is no where on there.
> This tells me they communicate in person at WORK.


Most won't believe the "just oral" story. In fact, the biggest concern for me is that he thinks it makes it any less bad. Logically speaking, intent is 99% of the equation.




> He was immediately remorseful. Saying he was sorry. That he doesn't want to lose me. he knew it was wrong as soon as it started happening.


He knew it was wrong but kept doing it. Intent.



> he was crying.
> I have never seen my husband cry before until then.


Desperation. Fear of loss. Normal.



> I of course, like I said, am very hurt. Confused. I am having a baby in 4 days. Our second child. It's almost Christmas, and our four year old is so excited. I decided to calm down and not freak out too much, because I do not want my daughters birth to be overshadowed by this, and I don't want Christmas to be either. I still do not know if I want to stay in the marriage - because the trust is RUINED.


That is how you feel now. That may or may not change. If he has fundamental flaws, this might make your distrust firm.

The question I have is whether or not you love him and can/will give him a chance.




> We went to marriage counseling yesterday, and it went well. I can understand how this all played out. I can see that he is trying for once, and we even had sex last night, me super pregnant (and it was my idea, something about territory - i couldnt let her be the last person to touch him ) The counseler says the think sthe marriage is saveable, given the characteristics of the "affair" (my husband says there is no emotional attachment, no relationship, she was just basically a ****ty girl at work who would do it, and that it was a last minute decision).


That is garbage. I also don't like the counselor's ignorance.

I was cheated on (# of times) many years ago. I expect men to approach and try to sleep with women, married, committed or otherwise. I can't blame men for acting like men. I can do something about it to enforce boundaries and my partner should do the same. Saying that this girl was "sh**ty" highlights an incredible amount of flaws of reason.

Your husband's flaw was the intent and lack of boundaries. Most likely, she did not approach him (as men do). There was probably some mutual flirting where they acted like they were courting each other. A last minute decision to have sex IGNORES all of the events that led up to it.

Those that know me are well aware of how forgiving I am and the depths of the forgiveness that I teach. That said, forgiveness implies that an actual apology occurred. Forgiveness implies that the other person deserves the forgiveness with their forward-looking behavior. Again, I do teach forgiveness as a possibility. However, I do NOT teach accepting ridiculous excuses. If the truth isn't on the table, then nothing can be forgiven. On top of that all, there was an attempt to shift the blame to her, in an attempt to take pity on him.




> He tried to call her in front of me (his idea) to tell her he made a big mistake and that he loves his wife and blahblah, but she didnt answer. She knows what is going on - because I sent her a text the night of, letting her know that I was his PREGNANT wife and knew what was going on. And that I hoped karma got her one day. thats all i said.


Desperation. I am not saying he is fake. I am saying that his efforts are entirely misguided. You prove your worth by your actions to your romantic partner. Part of that entails to no longer contact her, at all.




> I just don't know how to move forward. My counselor gave me some books to read. But I keep getting images of them together in my head. Like flashbacks. I keep imaging them together and it makes me so angry. I cry and cry and cry. I have barely eaten. I have lost 7 pounds just in the two days. I am so depressed over this. My husband has not been to work since, because he was scheduled off the last two days, but he will be going back to work today. All I can think about is she will be there. He works in a restaurant, so if you have ever worked in one before, you know how it can be. It's not uncommon for the management to get involved with the young wait staff.


It is early. You may have images and sharp pain for some time.

Do NOT rush to forgiveness this early. You will fail and it will cause further strife. Let yourself heal and work on the relationship (at your desire/will).

#1 Take care of yourself and family. If he is a good man, he will realize that he has to work through the pain you feel.






> Does anyone have any advice for moving forward?
> If I do leave, I will wait about a month to make that decision. I want to get through the holidays and the birth.
> I would like this to work out, if possible. I just don't know how it will work. I don't know if I will ever get over it.


Again, we have to take the blinders off. When that happens, forgiveness is vastly easier. It also lets him know that he has real work to do.

Pregnancy and young children ARE HARD. I went through a nightmare pregnancy with my partner and it took a LONG time for the relationship to get back to full speed. Nightmare = pain/sickness/difficulties/hormones

Partners work TOGETHER, not against each other. If there is a pull back, the other should step in and initiate dialogue to fix things (if possible). Too often, a man dislikes the lack of sex/pregnancy sex and runs off elsewhere. Even if there is no cheating, countless relationships have huge fights over the lack/low amount of intimacy during and after pregnancy. Instead of pulling away, we have to move forward. Then, when all of the hormones and the body gets back to its normal self, the relationship can quickly get to full speed. If partners just fight and pull away during the healing period, there will be semi-permanent damage to the relationship.

You are entering a new period of your life and that has to be your focus. I advise holding each other to reasonable, objective standards, not false hope based on blame-shifting and desperation. He has fundamental things that he must address. This takes serious time and effort. If one thinks that all he needed was to get caught, think again. It wasn't just the act of the affair but all of the serious relational flaws that led up to it.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

I doubt she will be there at the current job long... wonderful initiative to expose to light.

Boundaries to keep you sane while you focus on your coming daughter, son, and the things that make this special for them and you, make sure he understands these with the utmost clarity.

For the next 30 days, a simple boundary.

"Husband, there is no again... this is my primary boundary. If you chose to work on this, counseling today and begin working on how you will repair this".

The heavy lifting in this is all his... you have enough to carry right now.

If his remorse is true, he can begin to expose to his family first... humility is a wonderful first step in repairing self because if he can't repair self, there is no repairing anything else.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

1-he showed regret not remorse. Most prisoners have regret. Regret is obvious - it's about your H and his loss and his fears. It's ALL about his panic at being caught and seeing CONSEQUENCES.

2-remorse is all about YOU. It comes from him - not you. If he were remorseful he'd be opening all his passwords, he'd be doing no contact letters, he'd be asking what you need. YOU initiated the call to the girl. YOU had to catch him. This is NOT remorse.

3-get a new counselor if this one doesn't make it all about fixing your broken H. HE's the problem

4-sorry you had to find out your H is a bad partner with poor boundaries and low character


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Does anyone have any advice for moving forward?
> If I do leave,* I will wait about a month to make that decision. I want to get through the holidays and the birth.*
> I would like this to work out, if possible. I just don't know how it will work. I don't know if I will ever get over it.


Deja Vu. I just wrote a post about this happening a couple of days ago. Men who cheat often do this when the wife is pregnant and unavailable. Yuk.

Sorry this is happening to you. He was happy being a husband. Having a women at home that he could make love to. When you became pregnant and became a "Mother", well that is not what he wants at this stage in life. He does not want F a mother... He is an azz.

Your timeline works for me. Especially if you have a place to go. If you can move out sooner, so be it. Better yet. *Tell him to leave.* Strongly.

Finish your school. That is the fourth most important thing.

Having a successful delivery, making sure your 4 year old is safe, and you are safe come first.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> 1-he showed regret not remorse. Most prisoners have regret. Regret is obvious - it's about your H and his loss and his fears. It's ALL about his panic at being caught and seeing CONSEQUENCES.
> 
> 2-remorse is all about YOU. It comes from him - not you. If he were remorseful he'd be opening all his passwords, he'd be doing no contact letters, he'd be asking what you need. YOU initiated the call to the girl. YOU had to catch him. This is NOT remorse.
> 
> ...




I'm sorry I wasn't clear - 
He is the one who initiated the call to the girl. He asked me if I wanted him to call her to make sure she understands no more (he didn't want to do it without my permission). I said yes, I do want you to call her and tell her that.

I sent her a text on my own behalf.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

He is working on no contact. She does not answer his calls. He said he would tell her in person since she will not answer. 
She is probably ignoring him because she knows what its going to be about, since I sent her a text. 

He is working on a new job. He has already been applying places and even has a family member who may have a spot for him.

He has turned on Find My Iphone so that I can see where he is at all times. He promised to call or text me or whatever I needed him to do through out his work day so that I feel better. He has asked me numerous times what he can do to help me. I don't know what to tell him. So thats why I need help. I guess there is going to be no sure way to know if he cheats again, so I need help rebuilding trust (if thats going to be possible) 

He does seem to be making the efforts, where as in the past he has not.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

It's like I told my family - my ultimate goal in this is to come out a better person myself. Whether that is building back my confidence, and building the best relationship we can.
Or maybe it's getting a divorce months from now, me finding myself, and in return finding someone much better in the future.
It will all depend on his actions over the next month or so (until I get my bonus from work and can afford to).


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Right now, you just need time to work through all the emotions you're going to feel. Don't make any decisions anytime soon, unless you just can't stand having him around. Continue with the therapy. The sex issue has to be resolved at any rate, if you decide to stay together.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I of course, like I said, am very hurt. Confused. I am having a baby in 4 days. Our second child. It's almost Christmas, and our four year old is so excited. I decided to calm down and not freak out too much, because I do not want my daughters birth to be overshadowed by this, and I don't want Christmas to be either. I still do not know if I want to stay in the marriage - because the trust is RUINED.


Wow, that's cruel to cheat on you right before giving birth, I can't imagine how horrible u must feel. Don't believe a word he says or his crying, he is just sorry he got caught!! Be strong and make him work hard to earn you back thru actions, not words or tears...tell him you aren't sure of what you want and will take all the time you need to decide, best of luck to you


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

My husband cheated on me during my pregnancy. Now, I know he did not PHYSICALLY cheat on me, after a polygraph exonerated him from that level of infidelity, but its still not enough for me to feel at peace. 

I learned that while we conceived our last child, (we wanted him) He was carrying on an affair with (Kate). They both tried to arrange a meet up but she lived a few states away so it was not easy for them to hook up. 

He had other women he skyped sexually, etc, but there was INTENT to have not only an affair but a threesome with as it turns out prostitutes. (HE did not know that at the time) The meet ups never happened, but the pain I feel is from his intent. 

He could have given me or our unborn son an STD, he was also HORRIBLE to me while he was cheating. I just did not understand the reason. 

I can tell you... Honestly. I love my third born son... But the circumstances of his birth were COMPLETELY overshadowed now by my husbands selfishness, and lack of love or care for me or his unborn child. To be honest....I CAN NEVER FORGIVE him for ruining my memory of the conception, pregnancy and birth of our last born. He was a terrible husband while I was pregnant with our other children... But with the first two he was not cheating. Our last I remember telling him that he had to treat me good. Make me a GOD DAMN QUEEN while i was pregnant. He didn't, and also he upped the abuse with cheating.... I just did not find out till that baby boy was 6 months old. 

I smile at MY BEAUTIFUL son .but i do know beyond a shadow of a doubt If i had found out his father was cheating while he was with Kate, my reaction would have been abortion. To know, that my pain was so great that I would have ended my pregnancy is a pain I bear. I did not handle D-day very well. And if i had aborted I know I would have regretted it to my dying day, but i still have resentment. If i had KNOWN my husband was cheating I would have never had a third child with him. not a chance... i HAVE to live with that personal guilt as he has to live with his own guilt. 

You are right, get through this babies birth. Christmas is already Ruined for you. so is the birth.... Im sorry, If you are anything like me it will be eating at you. Best I can advise is to get your answers. Polygraph him, I would not have him in the delivery room, I would probably also File for Divorce, (not saying you will actually divorce) but i have learned If there is no (HARSH) consequences, they have trouble finding remorse. 

Seriously, File for either divorce or separation and he will get the message. He needs to do a DAMN sight more than cry and say she is a ****. He made a choice. HE HAD SEX...oral is a common minimization of his actions. You need to get tested for STDs again...I know you did that when you first started with the pregnancy but you need it again. 

Slam him hard with consequences. (I didn't FOR OVER A YEAR AND A HALF and I hated myself thinking I was weak because I also found out on DEC 11-2014, and I did not want to ruin christmas... I regret that SO MUCH. I have been trying to Reconcile for now 2 years and the path has been horrible and brutal because I lost respect for myself. Keep the respect you have for yourself the FOREMOST thought in your mind. yoU CAN FORGIVE HIM LATER, just bring the hammer down and expose to all people, and hit him where he feels it the most. I know it sounds vindictive, and maybe too harsh, but i sense he will still try to stay with you. He just needs to find TRUE remorse, he is only regretful, Don't worry, ALL CHEATERS ARE REGRETFUL WHEN THEY ARE CAUGHT, but remorse takes time for them to arrive to. Its our actions and the consequences they face that shape and push them towards remorse. 

Hugs to you... When the baby is born have your family help. Don't rely on your husband.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Have you been STD tested?? That should be your VERY FIRST priority. I don't know a whole lot about it, but aren't some STD's transferred to the baby during birth? You need to get on that ASAP!!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Have you seen this thread yet? If not it has TONS of info you need to know

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

When my husband cheated I kicked him out the same day I found out. You need to lower the boom in a similar manner. He needs to know that this is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and you will not stand for it.

I also agree that you need to get a polygraph. Cheaters only admit to what they think you already know. It's called trickle truth and it's very insidious, and ALL cheaters do it.

My husband and I are stupidly happy today, but the only reason for that is that he owned everything he did and has worked VERY hard over the last 6 1/2 years to fix himself. If he hadn't done what he needed to we would not be together because I would never have let him move back home. Our story is linked in my sig if you want to read it.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I did kick him out the night I found out. I forgot to add that. He slept in a Walmart parking lot in his car.

Like I said - the only reason he is home is because I am about to give birth. I went back and forth and thought about it over and over and decided that I don't want him to NOT be in the room. I want him to be there for his daughter. I don't want bad memories of her birth. Even though I will never forget this. I am trying my best to make the most wise decisions I can.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Something about the birth traumatized him (I think just the act in general) and we did not have a sex life for a year or so. He stayed away from me. This hurt my self esteem deeply. We sort of got over it after a LONG time... but the sex was still kinda of vanilla. Or one sided - he would give me no pleasure, only himself.


I'd think most guys who witness childbirth firsthand will be traumatized to some extent. I did, for sure. I mean you see it all, the fluids, the afterbirth, the child's head popping out followed by the rest, including the cord and the placenta. How can you NOT get those images the next time you're down there trying to give her pleasure or even when you're about to insert yourself? In my case I even saw the episiotomy- when they cut and then stitch the bottom of the vj back together again to avoid tearing during delivery. As I write this I can still picture it as if it was yesterday. She had fibroids, so they pulled out the uterus (I think it was the uterus otherwise it was just one huge fibroid), and inverted it on her belly and zapped parts of it with some sort of electric device. It looked like some sort of alien creature just laying there attached with part of it going right back inside her vj. I can still smell the burning from the electric zaps they were giving it. 

Fathers really should be warned with some sort of disclaimer prior to being present in the delivery room. "You'll never look at her vj the same way again and witnessing childbirth first hand can be detrimental to your sex life".


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

adegirl2016 said:


> Does anyone have any advice for moving forward?
> If I do leave, I will wait about a month to make that decision. I want to get through the holidays and the birth.
> I would like this to work out, if possible. I just don't know how it will work. I don't know if I will ever get over it.


This is one of the few instances in which rug sweeping for a month is probably the best option. At least you got a confession in the meantime. I commend you on your maturity for still choosing to have your husband with you in the delivery room during this difficult time.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

browser said:


> I'd think most guys who witness childbirth firsthand will be traumatized to some extent. I did, for sure. I mean you see it all, the fluids, the afterbirth, the placenta, the child's head popping out. How can you NOT get those images the next time you're down there trying to give her pleasure or even when you're about to insert yourself? In my case I even saw the episiotomy- when they cut and then stitch the bottom of the vj back together again to avoid tearing during delivery. As I write this I can still picture it as if it was yesterday. She had fibroids, so they pulled out the uterus and inverted it on her belly and zapped it with some sort of electric device to shrink the fibroids. It looked like some foreign alien object just laying there attached with part of it going right back inside her vj. I can still smell the burning from the electric zaps they were giving it.
> 
> Fathers really should be warned with some sort of disclaimer prior to being present in the delivery room. "You'll never look at her vj the same way again and witnessing childbirth first hand can be detrimental to your sex life".




He said the same exact thing to our counselor yesterday. He had no idea what childbirth was like. He said no video, presentation, nothing could have prepared him for that. We were also younger at the time... our first was a "surprise" so I think that adds to the shock of birth in a way. 

He admitted that he knows he freaked over it, but eventually got over it. When he "got over it" he said that he should have done a better job in building back up my self esteem.

He said he wants to feel desired sexually, and when I was so insecure, it was a turn off. You see, I was so hurt, and felt so unattractive, that I NEVER tried to have sex either. I just waited for him. 

He now admits that he feels it is his fault that I was so insecure. He stated that maybe if he would have initiated more, and made sure that I did in-fact feel sexy, sexy enough to initiate myself, that maybe it would not have spiriled out of control. 

I hate that I felt so insecure. I lost all of my baby weight. I am 5 foot 6. 115 pounds when not pregnant. In really good shape. I dress nice. 

See - there are many background issues that also need to be sorted out. Parts of me think that now that we have the ability to admit what is going on, and really look at all of the issues together - that maybe we CAN have a better relationship and more shared intimacy.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

You CAN RECOVER FROM THIS. Just try to respect yourself MORE than the care consideration and respect you show him. I bent over backwards coddling (Its okay, its okay, blah blah) Hurt me so much more than I every imagined. Keep your self respect. When discovering infidelity, and being in shock, (for MONTHS) I lost myself. Most BS lose themselves and forgiving the WS is only part of the equation. We as the BS also find ourselves hating how pathetic, needy and vulnerable we were. And finding forgiveness for our own actions that we are critical of is even harder than forgiving the WS person. 

I just don't want you to beat yourself up later. Its him who should be emotionally beat up. not you. Your fragile, pad your heart, make a buffer to this. Let him work on himself, and you focus on your new baby that is coming. Block WS out of your mind. This time is about you and that Baby. NO ONE ELSE.


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## maritalloneliness (Mar 18, 2015)

browser said:


> I'd think most guys who witness childbirth firsthand will be traumatized to some extent. I did, for sure. I mean you see it all, the fluids, the afterbirth, the child's head popping out followed by the rest, including the cord and the placenta. How can you NOT get those images the next time you're down there trying to give her pleasure or even when you're about to insert yourself? In my case I even saw the episiotomy- when they cut and then stitch the bottom of the vj back together again to avoid tearing during delivery. As I write this I can still picture it as if it was yesterday. She had fibroids, so they pulled out the uterus (I think it was the uterus otherwise it was just one huge fibroid), and inverted it on her belly and zapped parts of it with some sort of electric device. It looked like some sort of alien creature just laying there attached with part of it going right back inside her vj. I can still smell the burning from the electric zaps they were giving it.
> 
> Fathers really should be warned with some sort of disclaimer prior to being present in the delivery room. "You'll never look at her vj the same way again and witnessing childbirth first hand can be detrimental to your sex life".


Imagine that it's your body going through that and then in 6 weeks the Dr state it's a go for sex! And you're like"What?"with swollen leaking boobs and vj.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> He said the same exact thing to our counselor yesterday. He had no idea what childbirth was like. He said no video, presentation, nothing could have prepared him for that. We were also younger at the time... our first was a "surprise" so I think that adds to the shock of birth in a way.


This is a job for Mr. Spock!










"Forget..."


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

adegirl2016 said:


> I did kick him out the night I found out.


Good for you 

Have you been STD tested? You've had sex with him since you let him back home,r ight? I would think you'd want to not do that any more till you find out if he's clean.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

browser said:


> I'd think most guys who witness childbirth firsthand will be traumatized to some extent. I did, for sure. I mean you see it all, the fluids, the afterbirth, the child's head popping out followed by the rest, including the cord and the placenta. How can you NOT get those images the next time you're down there trying to give her pleasure or even when you're about to insert yourself?


I remember having a panic attack when my W had our first kid, I went into the bathroom on the room and had to sit down for a few, felt like passing out, my MIL kept yelling asking where I was at that I was going to miss it....lol, wow, will never forget that


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

threelittlestars said:


> You CAN RECOVER FROM THIS. Just try to respect yourself MORE than the care consideration and respect you show him. I bent over backwards coddling (Its okay, its okay, blah blah) Hurt me so much more than I every imagined. Keep your self respect.


I second this, so many BS overlook the impact the lack of self respect will have on them later, I went thru the same thing and it sucks...I lost respect on myself for lacking respect for myself during that dday time, I wish I would have been a lot tougher, but oh well, lesson learnt


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## prunus (Oct 29, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't clear -
> He is the one who initiated the call to the girl. He asked me if I wanted him to call her to make sure she understands no more (he didn't want to do it without my permission). I said yes, I do want you to call her and tell her that.
> 
> I sent her a text on my own behalf.


My STBXH initiated a call, too. But, she was in on it. She already knew the call would happen. They both played me. He, too, did it during a therapy session. The therapist picked up on it and called him out on it. She said it sounded staged and it's not the first time a spouse has done that during a session.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

We women go through so much ****. Carrying babies around for over 9 months inside of us and all the hormonal changes, weight gain, etc, giving painful births and then Husbands expecting us to be all visually sexy so they can have their wicked way. Something really lopsided in this scenario, men don't bloody well know how much we go through and put up with. That is why when we hit late 40's and 50's the light goes on and some realise enough of this, now he expects me to pander to him and be his mother too. If I ever meet God, I am going to ask him, why we got the short straw. Rant over.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

aine said:


> We women go through so much ****. Carrying babies around for over 9 months inside of us and all the hormonal changes, weight gain, etc, giving painful births and then Husbands expecting us to be all visually sexy so they can have their wicked way. Something really lopsided in this scenario, men don't bloody well know how much we go through and put up with. That is why when we hit late 40's and 50's the light goes on and some realise enough of this, now he expects me to pander to him and be his mother too. If I ever meet God, I am going to ask him, why we got the short straw. Rant over.




I think you meant to say "short skirt" in that last sentence. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I'm sorry I wasn't clear -
> He is the one who initiated the call to the girl. He asked me if I wanted him to call her to make sure she understands no more (he didn't want to do it without my permission). I said yes, I do want you to call her and tell her that.
> 
> I sent her a text on my own behalf.


Dog and pony show.

If you think he hasn't already clued her in on the lies he told you (that it was 'only oral'), unfortunately, you'd be wrong. Further, it's about 100% likely that he *also *warned her that he might be making a phone call to her in front of you and to please stick to the lies he's told you about their involvement. Honestly, if you think he made that offer out of the blue to call her WITHOUT having first told her he was going to do it and asking her NOT to say anything that would get him in more trouble, you'd be very wrong.

Secondly, the worst mistake you could have possibly *MADE* was coercing him into having sex with you. You put your baby's health at risk with a possible STD. 

Third, he sounds like one of those guys who can no longer feel any sexual desire for a woman once she has his children. I'd be willing to bet that's why your sex life completely tanked after you had your first child. On those rare occasions you DO have sex, he's a complete selfish a*sshole and treats you like a receptical and nothing more. Stop subjecting yourself to that horrifically disrespectful behavior.

Lastly, any man low enough to cheat on his pregnant wife isn't worthy of forgiveness or reconciliation. He's proven himself to be a bottom-feeder who will cross ANY line.

He's shown you exactly who he is. You need to believe him.


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

"Husbands expecting us to be all visually sexy so they can have their wicked way. Something really lopsided in this scenario"

Wicked ways? Why should it be wicked for a couple to make love? Or its just him?

My wife was bummed she had to wait 6 weeks. I think she demanded sex at 3 weeks and we did it softly. 

About men seeing birth. For many guys, that's rough. I chose not to watch, didn't want to take that chance. I kinda wish I was there, but still content with that decision.

To the OP: he is only in regret... He got busted. If he came to you first, admitted what he did -that would be different.

It does seem he trying at least. And a better MC seems needed. Your call.
I recommend two books.

1- how to help your spouse heal after an affair. https://www.amazon.com/Help-Your-Spouse-Heal-Affair/dp/145055332X

2- not just friends.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0743...g_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=AD2C1HDWJC12RN7CAMBC

Whatever reason he did this, there is no excuse. Continue therapy.
The timing sucks. Do your best. There are people here to help.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

TaDor said:


> About men seeing birth. For many guys, that's rough. I chose not to watch, didn't want to take that chance. I kinda wish I was there, but still content with that decision.


Smart man. There are some things that can never be unseen.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

W had c sections so I got to watch the alien scene where they pulled the kids out of her. The nurse took me around the hanging sheets that shield the view so I could see the babies. There was blood everywhere and the doctor yelled at the nurse because there was an adjoining room that I was supposed to go through to avoid the mess. But TBH it didn't affect me at all - I expected as much, knew my W was ok (I had been holding her hand through it) and was focused on the kids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> W had c sections so I got to watch the alien scene where they pulled the kids out of her. The nurse took me around the hanging sheets that shield the view so I could see the babies.


Yeah my second child was a C section too. I was standing by her head. Even though I recall some hanging sheets either they didn't block the view or I looked around them. I clearly saw the doctor reach his arm inside of her and pull out a leg. Seemed rather unreal at the time.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't suspect he told her to play along. Main reason is because i do not think he thought he was going to be caught. After he got caught, there is no way they had any interaction together. He did not return to work for a few days after this happened (scheduled days off anyway) and I can see the text and call history online. 

I don't know... this is one of the worst situations I have ever been in. Very depressing. The first 2-3 days, I was extremely hurt and sad. Today I am angry. 

Knowing how my husband can be sexually, it really wouldn't surprise me if he literally went over there just to get oral. I know a lot can happen in 10 minutes, but I really think he saw her as a piece of &ss while his wife was pregnant. Not that it makes any difference. I am just trying to make sense of all of this in my head - because it's the only way I am going to move forward. I don't think he has any strong feelings or wants a relationship. The only thing I think he may be lying about is how many times it happened. And even that I am not sure.

I am not sure of ANYTHING right now AHHHH


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Have you been STD tested?? That should be priority number ONE right now!


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

adegirl2016 said:


> He has turned on Find My Iphone so that I can see where he is at all times.


Not quite. You can see where his phone is, or was at the last point it was switched off. The difference could be significant.

I am pretty sure that there will be an app out there that allows you to send out a spoof location to hide your real one.


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## WonkyNinja (Feb 28, 2013)

browser said:


> I'd think most guys who witness childbirth firsthand will be traumatized to some extent. I did, for sure. I mean you see it all, the fluids, the afterbirth, the child's head popping out followed by the rest, including the cord and the placenta. How can you NOT get those images the next time you're down there trying to give her pleasure or even when you're about to insert yourself? In my case I even saw the episiotomy- when they cut and then stitch the bottom of the vj back together again to avoid tearing during delivery. As I write this I can still picture it as if it was yesterday. She had fibroids, so they pulled out the uterus (I think it was the uterus otherwise it was just one huge fibroid), and inverted it on her belly and zapped parts of it with some sort of electric device. It looked like some sort of alien creature just laying there attached with part of it going right back inside her vj. I can still smell the burning from the electric zaps they were giving it.
> 
> Fathers really should be warned with some sort of disclaimer prior to being present in the delivery room. "You'll never look at her vj the same way again and witnessing childbirth first hand can be detrimental to your sex life".


Or it could be the most amazing thing you'll ever see, it just depends on your perspective.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

WonkyNinja said:


> Or it could be the most amazing thing you'll ever see, it just depends on your perspective.


No doubt. Seeing my baby daughter laying there after she was born, and the sudden realization that I am the father of this beautiful child was a mind blowing experience. That much being said it would have been indescribably better if I didn't have the image of placenta and afterbirth and umbilical cords seared into my brain.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

WonkyNinja said:


> Not quite. You can see where his phone is, or was at the last point it was switched off. The difference could be significant.
> 
> I am pretty sure that there will be an app out there that allows you to send out a spoof location to hide your real one.




My husband isn't really good with all of that stuff!! I can't see him figuring that out but I guess anything can happen.
He also has an apple watch that is also tracking. Of course, he could leave that at work too if he was really trying.

This is just to help me get by the next few weeks at work. There is a 90 percent chance he has another job that he can start in 3 or so weeks. He will be home with the baby for 2 weeks.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Hope1964 said:


> Have you been STD tested?? That should be priority number ONE right now!


Please get tested and inform your doctor BEFORE the baby crowns that your H cheated on you recently and you are uncertain of your STD status. Most standard STD's can be transferred orally. This is important. Do not let shame or fear jeopardize your unborn child's health.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Yes I have an appt to see my OBGYN before they close. I am so glad they were able to get me in because they close super early on Fridays and I will be induced Monday if baby is not here by then!!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't suspect he told her to play along. Main reason is because i do not think he thought he was going to be caught. After he got caught, there is no way they had any interaction together. He did not return to work for a few days after this happened (scheduled days off anyway) and I can see the text and call history online.
> 
> I don't know... this is one of the worst situations I have ever been in. Very depressing. The first 2-3 days, I was extremely hurt and sad. Today I am angry.
> 
> ...


Adegirl,

Sorry this has happened to you, it is gut wrenching. Dont make any hasty decisions right now but think of your long term future.
Many will probably agree with me but it's not as if your man was a young student, he is 30 years old and should have common sense and a sense of boundaries. If you accept him back you are setting yourself up for years of heartache when you get older, put on weight, have many more commitments, etc. He has shown you what and who he is, he is not to be trusted, he cares only for himself.
The reality is 'one cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear', you cannot change him, time cannot change him, he is fundamentally flawed and is far from a decent human being to do that to the mother of his kids. It tells you all you need to know. Get out now, he can still be the father of your children, but your deserve someone who loves you, cherishes and honours you. He has not and will not do this. Run as fast as your legs can take you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Hope1964 said:


> Have you been STD tested?? That should be priority number ONE right now!


Thank goodness Hope mentioned this! Please do get tested!!


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

Maybe he will get to remorse. In therapy and such, is he willing to do everything needed to prove himself. He needs ic to work his issues as well. Geez, even my sex drive took a dive after the baby. It happens to lots of men after a baby. And #2 may cause a dip without help.

Let her get past the holidays. Get them reading the books. And see if both of them want to save the marriage. 

Keep in mind, you (we) dont really know what's in his mind. After 3 months, is he blaming her or accepting his own faults.

If ow was realty a PA only, that is far easier for him to go back to his marriage.

Expose to parents, so they can help him learn his mistakes. And so that they know if he does it again... Then he blew his 2nd chance. 
(It's an idea)


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> After he got caught, there is no way they had any interaction together. He did not return to work for a few days after this happened (scheduled days off anyway) and I can see the text and call history online.


Opening a private browser window and using it to send an email to her wouldn't leave a trace.

Using one of the many many apps out there that let you text/chat/talk - all through Wifi - won't leave a trace on your cell phone bill.

Sending her a message in Facebook then deleting it before you see it will go undetected.

Hell, you can chat with anyone inside most game apps - and it doesn't leave a trace.

Unfortunately, not finding anything on the cell phone bill means nothing. Besides, he KNOWS you're looking at the bill so that's the LAST method he's going to use.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

TaDor said:


> Maybe he will get to remorse. In therapy and such, is he willing to do everything needed to prove himself. He needs ic to work his issues as well. Geez, even my sex drive took a dive after the baby. It happens to lots of men after a baby. And #2 may cause a dip without help.
> 
> Let her get past the holidays. Get them reading the books. And see if both of them want to save the marriage.
> 
> ...



Both of our parents know. I did this like the day OF. He is lucky many more do not know, but it gets to a point to where I only want to tell the people who know and love both of us. My side of the family is obviously very angry. His side is doing everything they can to help the situation. Both sides advice to me about the baby and christmas were the same - lets just get through. 

I guess my point of this whole post was not necessarily to try to find anything else out about the affair itself. I want opinions on how I can move forward.... how our intimacy can increase... and how our sex life in general can get better (especially with me about to pop out another baby!!!!) 
I want to see what our full relationship potential is, and then make a decision.


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

Your full relationship potential will most likely depend on the boundaries both of you place into this and how much trust can be restored.

Might as well consider a new nickname for your husband... "Missouri" fits, because everything he needs to do will come with a "Show Me" state.

_*Show me I am the important person in your life you promised me I was.

Show me that your weaknesses are not more important than your family.

Show me you have learned that there are things worse than the fears of dealing with our challenges.

Show me you understand the pain you caused us.

Show me I can trust you again...*_

The more he shows, the the more confidence you will regain in him, and the more faith you will bring back to your relationship.

I am not a fan of hardening the heart... but you do need a boundary that is attainable for you and understandable for him.

He can choose to repair this, and you can choose to forgive this... choice, what a wonderful action because every decision we make is a new chance to do the right thing. 

Birth is a miraculous thing, starting new, there is a lesson in the timing should your husband choose to see it.

May the birth of your daughter be blessed...


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

My opinion is that it's far too soon to talk about full relationship potential.

You are in shock and about to give birth. I would keep my eyes on the prize for now, which is your children.

And....I very much doubt that you have anywhere near the truth. For instance, what was he doing for sex for the year after your first was born? And ever since then while your sex life was far from strong? You say he never thought he would get caught and perhaps that wasn't such a bad calculation if he has been doing this for a while now.

Just saying. Why not step back from the relationship building for now and then work to get the truth once things have calmed down with your life, i.e., after the baby is born and you are back on your feet.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

My heart breaks reading this. This guy...you are 25, and you about to give birth to his second child. He is cheating on you with some "****ty" woman from work. You know what she isn't? The mother of his kids who pushed two babies out of her vagina. He was disgusted by you and decided to stick his **** in someone else. He is the absolute worst kind of cheater. He isn't someone who let time dig at his soul. Let years of sexless night make him go out. He abandoned you at the time you needed him most and it will absolutely happen again.

I suggest you work on taking care of your little baby and build up a support network. You just finishing school and now are likely looking for a professional job and will have two babies to take care of. I wouldn't stay with him, but I can understand if it is too hard to leave him now. Just prepare yourself for the worst.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't suspect he told her to play along. Main reason is because i do not think he thought he was going to be caught. After he got caught, there is no way they had any interaction together. He did not return to work for a few days after this happened (scheduled days off anyway) and I can see the text and call history online.
> 
> I don't know... this is one of the worst situations I have ever been in. Very depressing. The first 2-3 days, I was extremely hurt and sad. Today I am angry.
> 
> ...


Sadly this is how it is going to be for a while, maybe even the rest of your life if you stay with him so don't make any decisions to hasty. Do you have people, family to help you with the baby?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> My husband isn't really good with all of that stuff!! I can't see him figuring that out but I guess anything can happen.
> He also has an apple watch that is also tracking. Of course, he could leave that at work too if he was really trying.
> 
> This is just to help me get by the next few weeks at work. There is a 90 percent chance he has another job that he can start in 3 or so weeks. He will be home with the baby for 2 weeks.


You would be surprised what people can get good at when they are motivated, this is not rocket science we are talking about here. Cheaters lie, that is their MO. You need to be vigilant.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

What kind of a guy cheats on his pregnant wife? I'd have the baby, and get through the holidays...and file. That's just me. Sorry this happened to you. ((hugs))


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I guess my point of this whole post was not necessarily to try to find anything else out about the affair itself. I want opinions on how I can move forward.... how our intimacy can increase... and how our sex life in general can get better (especially with me about to pop out another baby!!!!)
> I want to see what our full relationship potential is, and then make a decision.


You can't move forward in a safe way if you don't know the truth. Most of us on here have read enough or experienced enough to know that there is a very good chance you don't. I know this is hard for you and you just want your family to be like it was, but sadly right now you are in the middle of making some of the most important decisions in your life. You should not rush them even if it feels safer to you. It only feel safer because it's closer to the way your life has been for the last few years. You don't want to be one of those people 2 - 3 even 10 years down the line finding out that he was still having and affair or is the kind of man who has many. Also and it hurts me to say this to you because I know how much you want it but your family is never going to go back to what is was, he will always be a cheater. This is now a part of your marriage if you decided to stay in it. It doesn't have to be a part of your life forever, a new marriage with a different person won't have this in it. 

@She'sStillGotIt is right when she says "any man low enough to cheat on his pregnant wife" is really pretty low (I am paraphrasing to try to be sensitive to you) This should be one of the best and closest experiences of your lives, and instead he was thinking about the sex he wasn't having. I can't even imagine that. This doesn't make him the safest choice to base your life on. 

Please don't rugsweep this because you are overwhelmed, ask your family and friends to help you so you are not so overwhelmed because right now, the decisions you make will effect the rest of your life.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> What kind of a guy cheats on his pregnant wife?


The same type of guy that cheats on his nonpregnant wife?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I guess my point of this whole post was not necessarily to try to find anything else out about the affair itself. I want opinions on how I can move forward.... how our intimacy can increase... and how our sex life in general can get better (especially with me about to pop out another baby!!!!)
> I want to see what our full relationship potential is, and then make a decision.


What are you going to do? What path will you take?


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## Relationship Teacher (Jan 3, 2016)

sokillme said:


> and it hurts me to say this to you because I know how much you want it but your family is never going to go back to what is was, he will always be a cheater.


:scratchhead:



> This is now a part of your marriage if you decided to stay in it. It doesn't have to be a part of your life forever, a new marriage with a different person won't have this in it.


:scratchhead:

Fundamental attribution error.




> @She'sStillGotIt is right when she says "any man low enough to cheat on his pregnant wife" is really pretty low (I am paraphrasing to try to be sensitive to you) This should be one of the best and closest experiences of your lives, and instead he was thinking about the sex he wasn't having. I can't even imagine that. This doesn't make him the safest choice to base your life on.


He wasn't thinking about the sex he wasn't having, he was thinking about some alternate fantasy. He had a ready and willing partner.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

browser said:


> The same type of guy that cheats on his nonpregnant wife?


True


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

During my wifes pregnancy... I was worried that sex could hurt the baby... actually, it was a difficult pregnancy so yeah. She was more wanting sex than I did.


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

Life is very long...it can feel like an eternity with a cheating spouse who isn't truly repentant & willing to do anything to help you heal. Time is on your side. You don't need to make any life changing decisions now. Try to focus on you & your babies. Allow him to be around to help because it will make life easier for YOU. 

My biggest concern is that you will suffer post natal depression. I did & it's awful. Please make sure that you have a very close family member or friend to support you AND keep an eye on your mental health. Fortunately mine was the kind of depression where I saw my babies in the same 'bubble' as me but I can now easily see how new mothers do the most terrible things without knowing what they're doing at the time. 

BEST WISHES. 

Please keep posting so we know how you're holding-up.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Just thought I would send an update. I have been taking care of myself the best that I can. Had a great delivery, so I have been back to feeling like myself. The pain isn't as often, but when I do feel it (reminders and such) it is pretty bad. 

My husband has been trying to do everything under the sun to make me see that he is/will change. We have been to counseling again, and have been taking steps to improve our marriage. I still don't know how I will ever get over this. I want him to "suffer" and have a consequence for his actions. Our counselor says that she believes that his feelings, even though I can't see or feel them myself, are a consequence in itself. 

Is it possible that it really take THIS much time and for this drastic of something to happen for someone to change?

Thats my main question. I have been telling this man for years that our marriage is not what it should be. He always shrugged it off. Now he is willing to change?


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Our counselor says that she believes that his feelings, even though I can't see or feel them myself, are a consequence in itself.


Aww, the poor guy must really be suffering. I feel so bad for him. Not. 

I disagree with your counselor. So far, he's gotten away with this scot-free. He needs to understand that he's on probation, until you say otherwise, and that your staying is not a "given". If I were you, I'd put a voice-activated recorder in his work car and see if he's still chatting with girls on the phone. If so, it's time to bail out.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I can see all of his calls and texts. I can see what apps are on his phone. I can see his location at all times. We share a computer. The only thing I can't see is what he is actually doing at work. But he has interviews this week, so that will be changing soon.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I mean, is there anyway to track his work conversations that I am not thinking of?


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Only YOU can decide if he changes. NOT HIM. He can say or do anything he wants, but until he can demonstrate with clear, CONSISTENT actions, (for a period of time that you decide the duration of), true remorse and change, you simply can't trust him. 

Because now it's not just about your welfare and future, it's about your children's as well. He's been lying to them, too.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Thats my main question. I have been telling this man for years that our marriage is not what it should be. He always shrugged it off. Now he is willing to change?


Probably because he's done the math and child support for 2 kids plus losing half his assets doesn't appeal to him.

Remember - most cheaters aren't looking to change their marital status or their situation at home. They're just looking for EXTRA selfish fun on the side. Maybe this time around he sees you mean business so he's stepped up his game to, "I want to stay married forever and love you to the moon and back."

You should only believe about *1/10* of what comes out his HIS mouth.


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## ulyssesheart (Jan 7, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> I can see all of his calls and texts. I can see what apps are on his phone. I can see his location at all times. We share a computer. The only thing I can't see is what he is actually doing at work. But he has interviews this week, so that will be changing soon.


You could not see what was in his mind before his affair. You still cannot see what is in his mind. You can see his actions. Actions, not words are key. Keep his feet to the fire.


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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Tatsuhiko said:


> Aww, the poor guy must really be suffering. I feel so bad for him. Not.
> 
> I disagree with your counselor. *So far, he's gotten away with this scot-free.* He needs to understand that he's on probation, until you say otherwise, and that your staying is not a "given". If I were you, I'd put a voice-activated recorder in his work car and see if he's still chatting with girls on the phone. If so, it's time to bail out.


While I agree with the premise, I want to make a point of the boldedup top that I feel is disingenuous in concept.

The implication of getting away "scot-free" (what a term, amirite) is completely missing the point. Getting away with something means you did something bad, but it likely doesn't have impact on anything else in your life. Like, I robbed a bank and nobody caught me. Ok, I needed the money and I got off scot-free. Here, when someone is cheating, it's not that it's a one time thing that they want to get away with. It's a complete betrayal and undermining of everything that they feel about you. If you rob a bank and don't get caught, it's not like you are still passively robbing banks and still are free. The cheating is the symptom, the lack of desire to manage a proper relationship (whether it's because of love, emotional issues or whatnot) is the problem. Just because he isn't cheating currently, that doesn't change the underlying feeling he had that caused him to do what he did originally.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@adegirl2016 

Takes a real special kind of POS to cheat on his PREGNANT wife.

My ex was the OW while her AP cheated on his pregnant wife.

He was a REAL fvcking turd. I saw all the texts. Believe me, so is your husband.

Divorce him and never look back. You'll be doing yourself a huge favor.

Kids are NEVER a valid reason to stay. With good parenting, they we be fine.


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## Hellomynameis (Dec 16, 2016)

My STBX started cheating early in my 2nd trimester after I almost miscarried and the dr said no more sex for the rest of the pregnancy.

2 months after our son was born he left me for his affair partner. My son is 13 years old and doesn't know his father. All because his father couldn't live without sex for a few months.

I really feel badly for you. I hope for your sake he is truly remorseful but if not I wouldn't hesitate to leave him. i also hope he's a decent enough person to not walk away from his children at the same time as his wife.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I have a question...Do you have negative thoughts about yourself for giving this a chance? Any at all? Im not saying end things with him, but maybe you need space. Maybe you need CONSEQUENCES! 

I think you are on to something about your deep need to have him hurt. No revenge affair OBVIOUSLY, but you want him to be shattered. We'll shatter him. You want him broken enough to fix him self right! No his guilt is NOT CONSEQUENCE enough and your counselor is pretty dumb not to see that. UGH! 

Do what your gut says. Take him back later by all means, but you are right to not feel this is enough. I believe this was a slap on the wrist and he will offend again unless he god damn learns his lesson. 

Tell him to go to his parents, you need your space. what ever you need to get that nawing feeling gone i recommend it. 

Your counselor is pathetic if that was her advice.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Will I ever get past this?

My husband is trying. I can tell his attitude and everything has changed (in a good way). He has had several job interviews. He is reading books about marriage(he never reads). We are having more intimate conversation. 

I still feel empty. I feel unfulfilled in my marriage. I still feel the hurt. For me, when you are cheated on, you can literally feel the PAIN. 

So while my husband is trying, I am still not happy. Sometimes I feel like he is not trying enough. Like there is more he could be doing. Sure, we are closer, but it's not enough. I feel like something is missing. Our lives are even more hectic now, with a newborn in the house. I am feeling like it's been swept under the rug because of this. I am super busy with the baby, and our older child. Life is so hectic.

What are some ways in which a cheater can show remorse? How can they ever make it up to you? Is he not doing something right? 


I guess I am just confused and came on here to ramble about it... :frown2:


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

threelittlestars said:


> I have a question...Do you have negative thoughts about yourself for giving this a chance? Any at all? Im not saying end things with him, but maybe you need space. Maybe you need CONSEQUENCES!
> 
> I think you are on to something about your deep need to have him hurt. No revenge affair OBVIOUSLY, but you want him to be shattered. We'll shatter him. You want him broken enough to fix him self right! No his guilt is NOT CONSEQUENCE enough and your counselor is pretty dumb not to see that. UGH!
> 
> ...





Examples of consequences? With the baby here now, it sort of made things weird. It's like we are back to normal in front of the kids but on the inside I am hurting badly still. 
Yes, there are parts of me that feel stupid for still being here. We have had a rocky marriage. He has had an emotional affair before (2 years ago at work). We had a sexless marriage after the birth of our first (he was freaked out by watching). We have had many problems with porn. 
Honestly, It's been problem after problem. 
He says this affair has woken him up and he is done messing around and wants to be a family. He said his life flashed before his eyes....


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

He should be giving you 100% transparency, at all times.
He should install a GPS on his car and/or phone so you can track him at all times.
He should find - and attend - a personal counselor to figure out what love really is and how he was able to do this.
He should find - and attend - a marriage counselor with you for as long as you need it.
He should NEVER get angry with you for not getting over it yet or asking him questions or needing reassurance. He might get frustrated, but he needs to learn to deal with it WITHOUT resorting to anger. You must always feel safe.
He should go to your parents and his parents with you and tell them what he did and ask their forgiveness.
He should write out a complete timeline of everything he did, without omitting anything. Trickle truth (hiding stuff unless you discover it) is a death knell to a marriage.
He should offer to sign a postnup agreement that states if he is ever caught cheating again, he walks away with NONE of the financial gains of the marriage.
He should start being invested in YOU, your thoughts, your dreams, what you're missing out on.
He should be willing to read books like His Needs Her Needs and do the questionnaires with you to get a better look into the real marriage you have.
Above all, he should be patient. It's said that the betrayed spouse might take 2 or 3 years - yes years - to start feeling normal. If he's not up to being contrite and patient while you heal, it's best to get out now to save you more pain.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

turnera said:


> He should be giving you 100% transparency, at all times.
> He should install a GPS on his car and/or phone so you can track him at all times.
> He should find - and attend - a personal counselor to figure out what love really is and how he was able to do this.
> He should find - and attend - a marriage counselor with you for as long as you need it.
> ...




Whoa!! A postnup?? Why have I not heard of or thought of this? I guess I thought it was for people with a lot of money? Like celebrities. lol.

One of the books is His Needs Her Needs. He has been doing what the chapters say and we have had conversations about it.

He has location turned on his phone.

Both of our parents know, but its because I called both of them crying. I am close with my dad and very close with his mom, so they were a source of comfort for me. I don't want him to apologize to them until I have decided to stay or go. Idk. I feel like they wont accept his apology until they see me happy again. 

Is it possible that he is telling the truth? and not trickle truth?
He admitted to flirting. He said that she had been trying to get him to hang out for some time. He said she would always say that he should come over after work. I guess on this particular day he took her up on it?

I can see the phone history - they had no prior contact besides this one night. All of their contact was done at work. 

Not to sound mean but my husband wouldn't be able to have a burner phone. For one, I don't think he would think of it. Two, I handle the finances, and he wouldn't even have the money for that. So, besides work communication, I doubt there was any.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The advice to have him admit to both sets of parents (unless they are abusive) is, IMO, a KEY component in reconciliation. Why? Because to show that a cheater 'gets it' he must be willing to be HUMBLE and to ask forgiveness. 

If he can't face either set of parents, he IS NOT REMORSEFUL, and is only trying to save HIS life conditions.

It's REALLY hard to face your own parents and your wife's parents, look them in the eyes, and accept HE SCREWED UP. If he's not willing to do that, you have no hope of real reconciliation.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

i will talk to him about that. Sounds good to me.
Any other reconciliation ideas


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

WOW! You guys could not have been more right. 
I gave him an ultimatum to either tell me the rest of the story or I am gone. Like you guys, his story did not make much sense.


So he told me that he initiated it. That they had been flirting at work for a few weeks. When no one was around (late at night when closing down the restaurant) they would grope each other and even made out at work. He said this went on for a few weeks before he went to her house and she gave him oral there. He said that was the first actual sexual contact, besides the groping at work. 

Who knows WTF else bc he is probably STILL trickle truthing me. 
He claims that it was to prevent me getting all pissed again and even more mad. I am pissed as hell. I am so mad. you guys have no idea. Why couldn't he just tell me EVERYTHING to begin with like the counselor recommended? Like the books he read recommended? He did everything else but that. 

I cannot believe they hooked up AT WORK. IN THE BUILDING. WTF. I feel like I am finding out all over again.


oh and let me also say that he is MAD AT ME for getting mad all over again. He keeps saying that I dont want it to work out. That i keep digging for more. REALLY???? YOU ARE MAD???


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> WOW! You guys could not have been more right.
> I gave him an ultimatum to either tell me the rest of the story or I am gone. Like you guys, his story did not make much sense.
> 
> 
> ...


HE sucks and is probably still lying. He is mad at you? People in affairs have sex in their cars in parking lots, In dance club bathrooms while being filmed no less (I kid you not, look it up, some guy posted about it on SI and it hit the papers the following day). I am sorry to tell you this but there is no way he didn't F her, brutal word but that is what it was, like two dumb rabbits. Doesn't make logical sense that he didn't. Also, he probably has a history of "flirting". All cheaters have poor boundaries. This may not even be his first rodeo. Cheaters are a broken lot, they all pretty much act the same, they are liars and phonies even to themselves. Most are not worth the risk of having long-term emotional relationships with. 

I am very sorry for you as you are dependent on him with 3 kids. But at this point, he is a proven liar and a cheat. You really have no idea and if you are honest with yourself you probably never will. I would work on getting my career going after school, at least then you won't be dependent on him.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No remorse. Only self preservation and blameshifting to get you to back down and shut up.

Kick him out.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

sokillme said:


> I am sorry to tell you this but there is no way he didn't F her, brutal word but that is what it was, like two dumb rabbits. Doesn't make logical sense that he didn't.


 @adegirl2016 

This OP..... He's still treating you like a FOOL. Multiple groping sessions at work and then alone in her house? This lead to only a bj?

It's practically impossible they didn't have sex. No only that but you can bet the house it's been on numerous occasions and unprotected.

Look, he's clearly UNREMORSEFUL if you're still getting half truths. He's not a 15 year old, ADULTS HAVE SEX. You NEED to accept that he did.

Divorce or doormat are your only two options at this point. He's clearly only sorry he got caught and still in damage control mode.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

He just admitted to having sex with her


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

Nothing changes really.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> He just admitted to having sex with her


You called in in your previous post. When he told you he went to her house and she gave him a BJ, you called it and said he was still trickle-truthing you.

And there it is. And I bet it wasn't just that one time. 

I'm so sorry you're going through this.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

turnera said:


> No remorse. Only self preservation and blameshifting to get you to back down and shut up.
> 
> Kick him out.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Given that you now know for sure, what do you want to do?

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I am very numb. I don't know what to feel. I keep imagining it in my head. I am so hurt. All over again


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

It changes everything. For me, oral isn't as intimate. Still hurt like hell but now it's a whole new story. I feel numb. Can't think j straight. I feel bad because I know I am not giving my kids my all. Just making sure they are fed and clean. No interaction bc I am so depressed. He wrote out a timeline for me. They flirted for months but she broke up with her bf right before it happened and started coming onto him harder after that. I am glad he wrote it all out and it now makes more sense but I am so hurt. I am disgusted. I can't believe I have been being intimate with him after this. I am so turned off. The thought of touching him makes me want to throw up


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> He wrote out a timeline for me. They flirted for months but she broke up with her bf right before it happened and started coming onto him harder after that. I am glad he wrote it all out and it now makes more sense


Don't assume the timeline is anything other than "Based on a true story".

He has no reason to be completely honest and he has every reason to downplay and trickle truth.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I understand that. I believe nothing he says. Questioning our whole relationship. I am so embarrassed. So hurt.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Don't be embarrassed for being trusting. That's a good trait. You were scammed.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Textbook trickle-truth.

If she's married, engaged, or has a boyfriend, expose to her SO.

Sorry.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> It changes everything. For me, oral isn't as intimate. Still hurt like hell but now it's a whole new story. I feel numb. Can't think j straight. I feel bad because I know I am not giving my kids my all. Just making sure they are fed and clean. No interaction bc I am so depressed. He wrote out a timeline for me. They flirted for months but she broke up with her bf right before it happened and started coming onto him harder after that. I am glad he wrote it all out and it now makes more sense but I am so hurt. I am disgusted. I can't believe I have been being intimate with him after this. I am so turned off. The thought of touching him makes me want to throw up


This is probably still lies why does he always magically end it right before he got caught, before they had sex, and so on. Why is she the one coming onto him. I am sure he was coming on just as quick. He continues to lie to minimize his betrayal. I am sorry you can't believe a word he says. We know this NOT because we are any smarter then you, it's only because we all have the same history and then we have read these types of threads over and over. Cheaters lie, it's in their nature.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@adegirl2016, 

I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?

Right now, chances are about 99.99% that he is in "Cover Your A$$" mode. He knows that you know. He knows that what he's done is wrong and made a mess. But he's hoping that if he only give you "a bit here" and "a bit there" he can get away with minimum consequences and maybe convince you to stay so he can have his cake and eat it too. In other words, maybe the OW boosted his ego and complimented him and made him feel great...but you met some needs too like free childcare, free housecleaning, or additional income AND he also had a convenient scapegoat: YOU! He doesn't want to have to face the results of his choice to be a cheater because they hurt. And he doesn't want to lose the needs you do fulfill--whatever they may be--because if you weren't around who would he blame for the $hit in his life? It couldn't possibly be HIM!

Soooo...in order to keep you on the hook and minimize damage, he'll feed you just enough to say "I KNEW IT!" (because you know some...but not everything), and he'll hold back just enough for you to doubt yourself. He's doing this for SELF-preservation, and I want you to look really closely at that word. WHO is he preserving? You? NOPE! HimSELF. It's all SELF-centered. 

Almost no adulterer I know thinks to themselves that the natural consequence--the result that comes naturally--of flirting and cheating ... is LOSS OF THE MARRAGE, and loss of half of everything they own, and loss of half their time with their children! No one thinks of that. They just think "if they don't know it won't hurt anything" and carry on, right? But IN REAL LIFE every choice has both a benefit and a cost. The benefit of cheating is that huge ego boost! You feel ALIVE and interesting and great! But the cost (the result) is exactly what I said: a nuclear bomb is dropped on the marriage and family and it is no longer alive anymore. 

Now, the cheater may think "If I minimize it can go back to the way it was, and I'll feel good again." Or the loyal spouse may think "If they just grovel a little and tell me how sorry they are, it can go back to the way it was." But that's not true. As of right now, this moment, your former marriage IS DEAD. It is gone. You can't apply pressure and do CPR and "save it" because it is DEAD. There's a piece blown up over here...another piece over there...several pieces up on the roof...and it is blown to smithereens. 

In order for there to ever be a marriage again, you and your disloyal H are going to have to rebuild from the rubble. And for rebuilding to even start and be a possibility he would need to have a fundamental change of heart and change of approach: going from SELF-centered to SPOUSE-centered. 

I'm not saying you were an angel before the affair. I suspect you had become busy with life and bills and work and kids and school and kind of let the marriage slide, unintentionally. People often do that with no bad intent. I bet you didn't treat him like a guest (politely and kindly) and started to become irritated with his habits that drove you nuts. See these are the things that an unrepentant disloyal often bring up as reasons for their affair, and the loyal will say "Well...I did kind of do that, so maybe they have a point." NO! 

Let me say that again: NO!!!!!!

Even if you were yelling about socks on the floor and not paying attention to him, the solution to that is NOT to choose to commit adultery and then blame it on another!! There are hundreds of solutions that are moral options that show stronger character than choose to commit adultery. And when he calls it "a fling" or "I slipped"... no he didn't. That's just a euphemism. He committed adultery!

So the natural cost of committing adultery is losing your spouse and family (and half your stuff). THAT is what he is due. And the very first step of any recovery will be when he recognizes...really understands in his heart...that WHAT HE DID resulted in the death of the marriage and he is due NOTHING. He is not owed a second chance. He is not owed "forgiveness" nor "you getting over it." He is OWED losing his wife, half the time with the kids, and half of everything he owns. If--someday in the future--he does NOT get that, then it is an amazing gift that he should never, EVER take for granted!!

Once he really understands in his heart that his actions KILLED the marriage and family, the next thing that needs to happen is for him to shift from "protecting himself" to "doing whatever he can to save you." In other words the shift is from SELF-centered, to SPOUSE-centered. When his attitude is "I do not deserve a second chance, but that doesn't matter, because I see the harm I've done to you and my own children and I'm SICK. Even if we don't reconcile I need to do everything I can to help you recover from the damage I did!" then you'll know that he's made this switch. Until you see that kind of attitude from him, you really can not rebuild anything that will live and be healthy. 

This is why we so strongly recommend that a disloyal spouse talk to HIS parents...and HER parents...and admit what they've done and ask for forgiveness. It's not to force them to go through certain motions. That's robotic! Nope, it's to demonstrate in a very active way that they understand their damage didn't only hit the spouse and kids, but also the grandparents, the aunts and uncles, the friends like ripples in a pond. It's to demonstrate that change in focus too. By talking to parents willingly, that demonstrates "I'm not trying to save mySELF but rather I'm focusing outward on the people I hurt." 

Make sense? 

So are you seeing that kind of change in attitude? Be honest--are his ACTIONS protecting HIM...or protecting YOU and the kids? Don't listen to his words--at this point they are hot air and worthless. But ACTIONS--actions will tell the truth. What do his ACTIONS show you?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I understand that. I believe nothing he says. Questioning our whole relationship. I am so embarrassed. So hurt.


Hun, we get it, almost everyone of us on here, and frankly almost everyone in the world has one of these stories, period. You have nothing to be embarrassed about, you were tricked. We all are when this happens. People like your husband take advantage of your nature, again it's in their nature to do so. 

We all get the hurt, the feeling that you are living in the twilight zone. How can anything in this world be real, how can I trust anyone when I was so duped by someone so close to me. We all had that feeling. It's a part of life unfortunately. You are no different then almost everyone else in this world. Good people really don't understand bad people because their nature is foreign to us. Think about it, I bet doing this to him and your family was the furthest thing from your mind. You were busy having his children, mothering his family. Being proud to be his wife. To do this to your own kids, look how much it has hurt his own kids. Now how could you even conceive that he would do this to you in response. (God I hate cheaters  )

You need to put the idea that it is somehow you fault for missing it out of your mind. Again you are no different then the rest of us, we all were scammed. The lesson is not that you got scammed, or even that you should never trust again, it's to never be so vulnerable, or exposed that you are crushed if you get scammed again. But that is for another day. 

Now the unfortunate part is the 3 kids and the not working. That kind of puts you in a bind as far as getting out of this fast. You really need to start thinking about this though. When do you graduate? You need to at least talk to a lawyer to find out what your options are. 

I am very sorry this happened to you. It's OK to grieve. But one more thing that all of us who have gone through it know that you also can't conceive (and it is the same reason, you have on basis to know this) there is much hope. You will be happy again. You will get through this. You will have joy again. Your life is not even close to being over. 

I know the feeling. "I will never get over this hurt." I remember asking, "will I ever not feel like this again." I asked that question out loud, many times. "Does the pain ever go away?" The answer I got was YES with time. So I am telling you. YOU WILL GET OVER THIS. HAVE HOPE!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @adegirl2016,
> 
> I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?
> 
> ...


This, this is what you need to see to even begin to think about taking him back. And even then, if you decide that you don't want that deal then you don't have to take it. But for now you should be thinking about getting to safety. Maybe that means moving in with your Dad for a while so you can detach and clear your head. Maybe that means him moving out with his Mom.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @adegirl2016,
> 
> I'm speaking to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse (in other words, I had an affair). I'm going to speak to you not from the point of view of a spouse who has been betrayed, but from the point of view of the one who did the betraying, okay?
> 
> ...



I really appreciate all of your advice. I am not sure yet that he has made a complete transition to spouse centered. He still seems very self centered. Not that he isn't "trying" but just not in the right way or for the right reasons.
When I brought up the fact that he was getting frustrated with me today, when he should have been more understanding, he said "well I have a lot going on in my mind too! I majorily messed up and I cannot stand to see you so upset. I really thought holding back that information would make things better but i see that it hasn't"
I guess there is nothing more I should do at this point.
He says that I am looking over our progress, so I think I am going to start journaling my feelings first thing in the morning and before I go to bed (thats when my feelings are the strongest). I will write down the positives of the day and the negatives so that if I need to look back I can.

He really acts like as if he didn't know he should have told me. It's like he thought he was doing me a favor by not telling me. Is it possible that someone really has zero clue as of how to fix this? 

Just rambling.....


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Textbook trickle-truth.
> 
> If she's married, engaged, or has a boyfriend, expose to her SO.
> 
> Sorry.



I don't think she is but I emailed their HR. My husband quit yesterday. So it probably won't affect him much but she still works there.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I really appreciate all of your advice. I am not sure yet that he has made a complete transition to spouse centered. He still seems very self centered. Not that he isn't "trying" but just not in the right way or for the right reasons.
> When I brought up the fact that he was getting frustrated with me today, when he should have been more understanding, he said "well I have a lot going on in my mind too! I majorily messed up and I cannot stand to see you so upset. I really thought holding back that information would make things better but i see that it hasn't"
> I guess there is nothing more I should do at this point.
> He says that I am looking over our progress, so I think I am going to start journaling my feelings first thing in the morning and before I go to bed (thats when my feelings are the strongest). I will write down the positives of the day and the negatives so that if I need to look back I can.
> ...


His point about not telling you. I don't get it, that's like a robber saying after he breaks in and kills the guy, I'm sorry I broke into your house. He is sorry he didn't tell you. He shouldn't have done it then he wouldn't have to be sorry he lied about it. Please don't rug-sweep you will end up very unhappy.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

BetrayedDad said:


> It's practically impossible they didn't have sex. Not only that but you can bet the house it's been on numerous occasions and unprotected.


60 mins later...... The cheater script is SO very real.



adegirl2016 said:


> He just admitted to having sex with her


And?

Believe me there's a lot more. Now he can admit it was multiple times, unprotected and he enjoyed it.

He will continue to feed you CRUMBS of information until you are satisfied and leave him alone.

This is death by 1,000 cuts. He just wants to get away with it with as little damage done as possible.

He doesn't care if you're in pain. He's REMORSELESS. You need to get tested for STDs if you haven't yet.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I was tested earlier but bc I really thought it was only oral I didn't get tested for everything. I have an appointment next week with the doctor who delivered my baby to get tested and my husband is coming with. I can't wait for how awkward it will be!!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

And I really mean that. Not even being sarcastic.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> I was tested earlier but bc I really thought it was only oral I didn't get tested for everything. I have an appointment next week with the doctor who delivered my baby to get tested and my husband is coming with. I can't wait for how awkward it will be!!





adegirl2016 said:


> And I really mean that. Not even being sarcastic.


He deserves some awkwardness and public shaming. I don't normally agree with shaming, but he really deserves it.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think it will take him months to change from regret to remorse, if ever.

I guarantee he can not feel remorse now - it's impossible - he's trying to escape consequences so is only focusing on himself 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I really appreciate all of your advice. I am not sure yet that he has made a complete transition to spouse centered. He still seems very self centered. Not that he isn't "trying" but just not in the right way or for the right reasons.
> When I brought up the fact that he was getting frustrated with me today, when he should have been more understanding, he said "well I have a lot going on in my mind too! I majorily messed up and I cannot stand to see you so upset. I really thought holding back that information would make things better but i see that it hasn't"
> I guess there is nothing more I should do at this point.
> He says that I am looking over our progress, so I think I am going to start journaling my feelings first thing in the morning and before I go to bed (thats when my feelings are the strongest). I will write down the positives of the day and the negatives so that if I need to look back I can.
> ...


He's a coward; additionally, his thinking is flawed.

"I shouldn't have told you" comes from a place in which he assumes that, no matter what, you'll continue in marriage. Or, alternately, from a place in which he hopes -- for himself -- to avoid the pain and frustration of divorce.

In other words, it comes from a place in which he's desperately clinging onto a very self-centered outcome.

All his "concerns" aside, you had an absolute right to know that he'd stepped aside of your marriage so that you could determine for yourself whether or not you wanted to remain in the marriage.

Period.

And it's not like he came out and told you -- he trickle-told you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> He's a coward; additionally, his thinking is flawed.
> 
> "I shouldn't have told you" comes from a place in which he assumes that, no matter what, you'll continue in marriage. Or, alternately, from a place in which he hopes -- for himself -- to avoid the pain and frustration of divorce.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

It strikes me that he's only "sorry" because he got caught... I expect at some point, he'll try to make you feel bad, claiming it's your fault this reconciliation is so painful, and blame you for digging, etc.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Yeah that's pretty much exactly what he said "why do you keep digging and digging??! You just want to divorce"


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> Yeah that's pretty much exactly what he said "why do you keep digging and digging??! You just want to divorce"


I would have said something like, "No, I just want you to stop being a poop-head" or something equally immature.

He really has no idea just how horrible his behavior was/is. He has no idea the damage he has done to your marriage and how much he has hurt you.

If he says that again, you may want to respond, quietly, "I have never wanted a divorce. But your behavior has destroyed our marriage, reducing it to rubble. You have betrayed me, you have been unfaithful, you have lied. A marriage can be re-built, but your current behavior indicates that you don't really care about all of that. Maybe you want a divorce, and this affair was your way of telling me." See what he says to THAT.


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## Pixel (Jan 10, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> Yeah that's pretty much exactly what he said "why do you keep digging and digging??! You just want to divorce"


This resonates with me. It's like, no I don't WANT a divorce. I want to make decisions for MY life based on ALL the facts. If that means divorce, so be it, but like GIVE ME THE INFORMATION TO DECIDE! Right?


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

BTW, I don't think he's actually open to all the hard work it will take to fix this. I think it will be a waste of your time. He's incredibly immature. I honestly don't think he has the emotional fortitude to do it.

He's protecting himself right now. He's viewing himself as the victim. That alleviates him of any real responsibility.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I have contacted an attorney for legal advice. I am also going to recommend to him that he call his mom and talk to her about this. She already knows because me and her are super close. But it's time to face the music. When should he call my dad? Should he wait until my dad can see improvement in me?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> Yeah that's pretty much exactly what he said "why do you keep digging and digging??! You just want to divorce"


"I dig to get the truth.

I want the truth so I can understand.

I want to understand so that we -- most especially you -- can work together to ensure that this will never happen again.

That entire process begins with the truth, and if you can't accept that, as well as humble yourself in such a way that you're willing to be held fully accountable for the true breadth of your actions, then you're not cut out for marriage, in which case we NEED to divorce."


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I have contacted an attorney for legal advice. I am also going to recommend to him that he call his mom and talk to her about this. She already knows because me and her are super close. But it's time to face the music. When should he call my dad? Should he wait until my dad can see improvement in me?


If he were at all interested in talking w/ your father, he'd have called him already.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I feel like I'll never be happy again. I feel so depressed. I wonder when this hurt will stop


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

The truth? Years. Three to five in general although some marriages take less and some more. 

Reconcilation -- even when it works (and it doesn't always) -- is much harder than divorce (and I've done both).


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

I'm so terribly sorry that you're going through this. It takes so bloody long for some adulterers to even start to 'get-it', if at all. My husband put me through 9 months of torture. The DAY after I found some of their messages he screamed at me, "When are you going to stop picking the scab? Why can't you just get over it?". Less than 24 HOURS! Ugh!

I know the pain is indescribable. Those who haven't experienced it find it so hard to understand. Your H is protecting himself. He wants the 'hassle' (you) to just shut-up & get on with being a nice little wife & mother. I have no doubt that he feels some guilt but he's been doing a very good job of creating justifications in his mind to be able to do this. Why didn't he shut it down the first time they flirted? He told himself something. Why didn't he stop when they first kissed? Was it because his selfish pregnant wife didn't understand him?? 

Be careful of his justifications. Some of them 'stuck' with my husband. For example I was accused of stopping saying "I love you" before his affair. I even started to doubt myself. He swore it was true. I had to go back through messages I sent him to PROVE it was a lie!! Ugh! I have so many examples like that. They can believe some of their own lies. It sounds 'kind of' possible to you....IT'S NOT!!!

There's more to the 'truth'. This took time to build. Did she ask him about you? What did he say? She was dumped. Did she ask him when he was going to leave you? Is she the kind of girl/woman who would invite him back to her place without promises? Without "I love you's"? Only a few women are.

Until you know EVERTHING how can you possibly decide if you want to stay with him? It's so bloody hard.

I've been there with little children. You know people say "Time goes so fast. Cherish every moment!"? It's very, very true. I've lost countless experiences with my babies because I was stuck inside my head, trapped in my pain, playing things over & over in my mind. PLEASE try to force yourself to be in the moment with them. I know you can't be expected to do that all the time. Choose an activity that will focus you on them, with them.

Hold on tight to your support system.

Has he always been a ladies man or did he find it hard to 'get the girl' when he was younger? That will speak to the ego that you're dealing with. 

It's going to be a bumpy ride. This is going to be about HIS guilt & HIS pain & HIS stress for a long time yet. The pathetic thing is cheats become so self centered they think 'thats' remorse!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I feel like I'll never be happy again. I feel so depressed. I wonder when this hurt will stop


Please read my post to you again. There is hope. It WILL go away. It will stop, you will have joy again in your life. It's like being sick, it takes time to heal. Go get some counseling for your trauma, and don't be afraid to use med for a short period of time if needed. For sleeping and depression. If done right you will still be sad but not despondent. 

You are just going to have to believe us as we all have been through it. There is hope and joy again.


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

The hurt will stay for a long time. Every single time you learn something new it will either slam you back to here (hopefully if you want to reconcile) or it will slowly numb you to him. 

The triggers keep bringing it back. They become less common & less intense but they remain. How HE deals with this. How HE comforts you & how HE grows & mourns will dictate a lot. My H still becomes defensive nearly 2 years since it started. Every time he is grumpy or quiet I feel sick, physically sick. I was watching a silly TV show the other night. I was perfectly content. The man in the show (Bobby Moor) cheated on his wife. I've been crying at the drop of a hat since! Ugh!!


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Openminded said:


> The truth? Years. Three to five in general although some marriages take less and some more.
> 
> Reconcilation -- even when it works (and it doesn't always) -- is much harder than divorce (and I've done both).


I didn't divorce I broke up with the girl I proposed to. I only started to get better when she was gone. I was feeling much better in a year. Much easier without the trigger, that being her. As long as she was their she delayed my healing. I was fully healed when I fell in love again. All the triggers didn't matter anymore because I had no emotional connection to her (which was why they had power). After I feel in love with my wife, my ex just became someone who I unfortunately got involved with who did a very bad thing to me.


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

Once you've got children that person will always be part of your life to some extent. I'm still trying to reconcile & no-one has cheated on me in the past so I don't know. Is it still easier (emotionally) to divorce with children? I was obsessed with not breaking my family on d-day. I don't have a lot of divorce in my family. Parents, grandparents, most aunts & uncles etc still together in their 70's-80's. Ugh!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

When I asked him about justifications, he basically said he wasn't sure. He said that they were just flirting and having fun, and before he knew it, the opportunity was in front of him. He said he was not thinking of me or our family. He wasn't thinking of consequences and honestly thought he wouldn't get caught. He said he doesn't know if he would have ever told me just out of fear of me leaving. He said she knew about me from conversations with other co workers (I guess they all talked in groups a lot, due to the nature of their job) but that they never talked about me or our family one on one. He said it was just all fun and games and it was as if we didn't exist when he was with just her. He said he truly was not thinking of us. He said he was truly taken back that a young girl would have interest in him. I mean I am 5 years younger. Im only 25. WTF. Like I am old and useless or something.........

I can't get images of them together out of my head. Especially since finding out they had sex. Part of me wants to know the details of what happened. I keep imaging different scenarios. Why am I even thinking like this? I guess it's because he is MY husband. WE are supposed to be having sex.

I am sad because she is younger than me with no kids. I JUST had my second baby. I have lost a lot of weight but still have 20 or so pounds to go until I am happy. I am naturally really thin so it sucks to see myself bigger than usual. People who don't know me could never guess I just had a baby. 
My skin is still kinda of saggy. I am just depressed about the way that I look. I know I shouldn't be. I have a beautiful baby because of it. But I can't help it. 

I am graduating in THREE MONTHS. But I am having such a hard time completing my school work. I keep telling myself not to throw away this dream because of him. I can't let him take that away from me. I have been working so hard to finish school. 

We had a long convo last night where he said he knew he has treated me bad over the past few years. He said he was extremely immature and wishes that he would have listened to me sooner. He said he really wants the chance to show me that he can be a great husband. I just don't know if I want to waste any more of my life. I feel like I have been through enough, and YES I actually do feel like divorcing would be easier at this point. If I divorce, I WILL find love again. And I am older now - so I know what I want in a husband. I was 20 when we got married, so I was a little young and quickly found out that I should have given marriage more thought than I did. I could find someone on my level. The hurt of him cheating would go away. 
If I stay - I have to deal with these emotions. I have to think about them together. I have to wonder if he is cheating. There will be no trust. I have to wonder if I am wasting my time.

I really think I just want out.........


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## ShatteredStill (Dec 20, 2016)

I met my husband shortly after my 21st birthday. He was kind of a dorky hippy, hahaha!..but he obviously grew on me. I NEVER thought for one moment that he could hurt me like that. Then he did. I forgave. I truly did. Huge things happened in our lives, deaths, births, we were older. We were a FAMILY!! Then 12 years later he did it again & I'm completely lost!!

I'm not young anymore. I'm sick. If I could turn back time....

I guess I'm not the best person to talk to at a time like this...or maybe I am! ******! It hurts so bloody much. How could he do this? 

People say, "Once a cheater, always a cheater!". I never really believed that. He is capable of doing this to me. He has watched me shatter & break. AND it didn't stop him from doing it again when I needed him the most! People say "Once a cheater....", people think I'm stupid for trusting him again. I think I'm stupid!! That's the hardest thing to get over.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

That is what I am so afraid of. What if he does it again? I don't want to waste my life.


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## ShatteredKat (Mar 23, 2016)

adegirl2016

from an old fart - character is something one learns on the path of life. Some people improve with age and become shining example of all that is good.

Some don't learn, behave dishonestly and break rules (vows) of decent behavior. They Suffer and learn never to repeat the transgression.

Some people learn and never disappoint. Others, well - they don't learn or have the characteristic personal strength to do what is right. Which do you have? Do you think "he will learn?" How long before you know that answer? For me based on what you have related, I am a bit pessimistic.

The ice is really thin on this one - tread carefully

What is his "upbringing?" What is the character of his friends, relatives?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I feel like I'll never be happy again. I feel so depressed. I wonder when this hurt will stop


At least you have parents on your side. The pain will go away in time, time is a great healer and you will have learned alot at such a young age. Remember 'what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.' YOu will come out of this stronger, hang in there.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

ShatteredKat said:


> adegirl2016
> 
> from an old fart - character is something one learns on the path of life. Some people improve with age and become shining example of all that is good.
> 
> ...


His parents/family are all very nice people. I am close with all of them. They all have good marriages. I can say that he has always struggled to make his dad proud. His mom has even told me that that's always been a problem for him. His dad is very nice and caring, but very tough on him at the same time. I can tell my father in law pretty much thinks my husband is going to mess anything and everything up. My husband is the type to do destructive things when faced with adversity. Where as I tend to make it my mission to prove people wrong or to make good out of situations. That's pretty much a big motivation for getting my degree ... everyone said that once I had my son at 20, I would never do it. My family thought I wouldn't be able to give him the things he deserves because I was so young. So... instead of agreeing with them and settling for that, I decided to enroll in school to prove them wrong. I've been promoted at work several times. I love my job. We have come a long way. When we started out we had nothing. His parents had to help us buy diapers. But once I got my job we were able to save to buy our first house. We just bought our "first" car. For the most part, we now live comfortably. We have to live without some things but I knew that once I graduated I would focus on making more money so we could have more. 
My husband on the other hand, further destroys himself when faced with challenges, so if someone tells him he can't do something ... he says... yeah your right I suck! 
There is definitely some depression there. He hates his job. He hates that he is 30 and working in a restaurant. His mom has even stated that he may be jealous of me, even if he wouldn't admit it. Being that I am younger than him and everything is going well for me. If you ask any of our friends and family how we got to where we are today (our home, car, general well being) they would all say it's because of me and the effort I have put into us having a good life. 
My husband on the other hand, continued to act like a child after we got married. We had a lot of conflict because he also smoked weed daily. He actually did that up until he got caught cheating. He quit cold turkey after I found out. He said its one way he's proving his changes to me. 
I probably should have mentioned that before, but there is only so much about our relationship I can fit into one post. 
I know I am rambling here again but thought it might help to know
More background info


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> When I asked him about justifications, he basically said he wasn't sure. He said that they were just flirting and having fun, and before he knew it, the opportunity was in front of him. He said he was not thinking of me or our family. He wasn't thinking of consequences and honestly thought he wouldn't get caught. He said he doesn't know if he would have ever told me just out of fear of me leaving. He said she knew about me from conversations with other co workers (I guess they all talked in groups a lot, due to the nature of their job) but that they never talked about me or our family one on one. He said it was just all fun and games and it was as if we didn't exist when he was with just her. He said he truly was not thinking of us. He said he was truly taken back that a young girl would have interest in him. I mean I am 5 years younger. Im only 25. WTF. Like I am old and useless or something.........
> 
> I can't get images of them together out of my head. Especially since finding out they had sex. Part of me wants to know the details of what happened. I keep imaging different scenarios. Why am I even thinking like this? I guess it's because he is MY husband. WE are supposed to be having sex.
> 
> ...



You are full of mixed emotions right now, so now is not the time to make a life changing decision. If he puts pressure on you, tell him you do not want to think about his cheating right now, you need him to back off so you can focus on your studies. 
Don't give up on our studies, even without WH you will still have your qualifications and these will help you become independent and self sufficient.

But aside the marriage difficulties for now, no dwelling on it, take one day at a time. Go and see an IC to work through your feelings and emotions. Get the studies out of the way, by then, time will have passed and your head will be clearer, you will be in a better place to make a decision.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> When I asked him about justifications, he basically said he wasn't sure. He said that they were just flirting and having fun, and before he knew it, the opportunity was in front of him. He said he was not thinking of me or our family. He wasn't thinking of consequences and honestly thought he wouldn't get caught. He said he doesn't know if he would have ever told me just out of fear of me leaving. He said she knew about me from conversations with other co workers (I guess they all talked in groups a lot, due to the nature of their job) but that they never talked about me or our family one on one. He said it was just all fun and games and it was as if we didn't exist when he was with just her. He said he truly was not thinking of us. He said he was truly taken back that a young girl would have interest in him. I mean I am 5 years younger. Im only 25. WTF. Like I am old and useless or something.........
> 
> I can't get images of them together out of my head. Especially since finding out they had sex. Part of me wants to know the details of what happened. I keep imaging different scenarios. Why am I even thinking like this? I guess it's because he is MY husband. WE are supposed to be having sex.
> 
> ...


Cheaters are less evolved emotionally. Their empathy meter is broken. You and I would find doing something like that repulsive, but adulterers don't have the ability to understand this without a lot of work, and even then I think it's kind of like an autistic person learning bout communication. They can look for the queues and say the words but it really just a kind of elaborate dance. I really don't think most of them will ever be capable of understanding the hurt they cause. They are just not that introspective. Ever notice how they sleep so well while you are awake in pain? This is the reason. They don't get it, they aren't capable. It's also what makes them emotionally dangerous, because they don't get it. It also makes them not worth it. 

Don't put yourself down about your weight, you had his baby for C sake! A normal man after a women has his baby should be in awe of his wife, not looking for a teenager to f*ck. Seriously your husband is trash. Something is really wrong with him. He wishes he would have listened sooner. He needed someone to tell him not to f*ck another girl while his wife was having his baby. Garbage.

Hang in there, I am going to tell you what my Mom told me, it held up to be true. If you get through this you will know you can get through anything because when it comes to love nothing is harder then the first time you were cheated on. The difference for you is you don't know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but there is.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

ShatteredStill said:


> I met my husband shortly after my 21st birthday. He was kind of a dorky hippy, hahaha!..but he obviously grew on me. I NEVER thought for one moment that he could hurt me like that. Then he did. I forgave. I truly did. Huge things happened in our lives, deaths, births, we were older. We were a FAMILY!! Then 12 years later he did it again & I'm completely lost!!
> 
> I'm not young anymore. I'm sick. If I could turn back time....
> 
> ...


They say that because most cheaters are broken. I am sorry you are going through that.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

sokillme said:


> Cheaters are less evolved emotionally. Their empathy meter is broken. You and I would find doing something like that repulsive, but adulterers don't have the ability to understand this without a lot of work, and even then I think it's kind of like an autistic person learning bout communication. They can look for the queues and say the words but it really just a kind of elaborate dance. I really don't think most of them will ever be capable of understanding the hurt they cause. They are just not that introspective. Ever notice how they sleep so well while you are awake in pain? This is the reason. They don't get it, they aren't capable. It's also what makes them emotionally dangerous, because they don't get it. It also makes them not worth it.
> 
> Don't put yourself down about your weight, you had his baby for C sake! A normal man after a women has his baby should be in awe of his wife, not looking for a teenager to f*ck. Seriously your husband is trash. Something is really wrong with him. He wishes he would have listened sooner. He needed someone to tell him not to f*ck another girl while his wife was having his baby. Garbage.
> 
> Hang in there, I am going to tell you what my Mom told me, it held up to be true. If you get through this you will know you can get through anything because when it comes to love nothing is harder then the first time you were cheated on. The difference for you is you don't know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but there is.



I agree. Sometimes I wonder how he even watches TV right now. Like... I will walk out into the living room and he is so into this movie. or when he is taking a shower, he will turn on the radio... listening to this happy music. and inside I am wishing he would just stop. STOP BEING HAPPY. How can he be so content? While all I do is cry?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> His parents/family are all very nice people. I am close with all of them. They all have good marriages. I can say that he has always struggled to make his dad proud. His mom has even told me that that's always been a problem for him. His dad is very nice and caring, but very tough on him at the same time. I can tell my father in law pretty much thinks my husband is going to mess anything and everything up. My husband is the type to do destructive things when faced with adversity. Where as I tend to make it my mission to prove people wrong or to make good out of situations. That's pretty much a big motivation for getting my degree ... everyone said that once I had my son at 20, I would never do it. My family thought I wouldn't be able to give him the things he deserves because I was so young. So... instead of agreeing with them and settling for that, I decided to enroll in school to prove them wrong. I've been promoted at work several times. I love my job. We have come a long way. When we started out we had nothing. His parents had to help us buy diapers. But once I got my job we were able to save to buy our first house. We just bought our "first" car. For the most part, we now live comfortably. We have to live without some things but I knew that once I graduated I would focus on making more money so we could have more.
> My husband on the other hand, further destroys himself when faced with challenges, so if someone tells him he can't do something ... he says... yeah your right I suck!
> There is definitely some depression there. He hates his job. He hates that he is 30 and working in a restaurant. His mom has even stated that he may be jealous of me, even if he wouldn't admit it. Being that I am younger than him and everything is going well for me. If you ask any of our friends and family how we got to where we are today (our home, car, general well being) they would all say it's because of me and the effort I have put into us having a good life.
> My husband on the other hand, continued to act like a child after we got married. We had a lot of conflict because he also smoked weed daily. He actually did that up until he got caught cheating. He quit cold turkey after I found out. He said its one way he's proving his changes to me.
> ...


No, just no, kids and smoking weed daily. No ambition. Broken lack of character. What do you see in him besides history? Look up "sunk cost fallacy."


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I agree. Sometimes I wonder how he even watches TV right now. Like... I will walk out into the living room and he is so into this movie. or when he is taking a shower, he will turn on the radio... listening to this happy music. and inside I am wishing he would just stop. STOP BEING HAPPY. How can he be so content? While all I do is cry?


I'm telling you, this is a real thing. They are different. There are people who can do that to people they say they love, and people who would rather die. Don't marry or stay married to the first kind, they are not safe choices.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

sokillme said:


> No, just no, kids and smoking weed daily. No ambition. Broken lack of character. What do you see in him besides history? Look up "sunk cost fallacy."



We got married too quickly. When we met, he was actually my manager at this restaurant/bar that we both worked at. It was in a little college town. So it's not surprise that he continues to go for girls that he works with. I mean... he did it to me. But it was different then because we were young and single. 

We got pregnant with our son after just a few months of dating. Our parents pressured us to marry (mostly his). I feel like they pressured him to marry me because they knew I was a catch. I am not trying to talk myself up here. Because right now.. in many ways... i feel like the ugliest woman on the planet. But I feel like to his parents, I would be a great fit. 

I mean think about it... If I leave... he is still where he was at 5 years ago when we married. Working in a restaurant. 
I have grown a lot ... I am going places. I WILL BE OKAY. 
If i leave.. he loses his good guy status with everyone else. 


Anyway - he says that he wants to have a relationship with me now and that he realizes he has never treated me right. He says he knows that we have to basically start from scratch and that he is willing to do that.
I won't 100 percent talk bad about him... he DID quit smoking. He used to stay up super late playing video games.. then would sleep in ... now he goes to bed with me and wakes up with me. It makes such a difference to have help with the kids early in the morning.
He has started helping me cook. We have had great conversation. It's like we are FINALLY having the relationship that we should have had all along.
But that doesn't mean that it's enough to make me stay. I can have this kind of relationship with anyone. Plus he has put me through too much... 

my mind is going CRAZY. the best advice I ever got was that I don't have to make a decision right now.. today... I can wait.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> We got married too quickly. When we met, he was actually my manager at this restaurant/bar that we both worked at. It was in a little college town. So it's not surprise that he continues to go for girls that he works with. I mean... he did it to me. But it was different then because we were young and single.
> 
> We got pregnant with our son after just a few months of dating. Our parents pressured us to marry (mostly his). I feel like they pressured him to marry me because they knew I was a catch. I am not trying to talk myself up here. Because right now.. in many ways... i feel like the ugliest woman on the planet. But I feel like to his parents, I would be a great fit.
> 
> ...


When did this "epiphany" happen after he got caught cheating? 5 years from now he is still going to be managing and trying to pick up young girls. Just telling you. Sunk Cost Fallacy.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I agree. Sometimes I wonder how he even watches TV right now. Like... I will walk out into the living room and he is so into this movie. or when he is taking a shower, he will turn on the radio... listening to this happy music. and inside I am wishing he would just stop. STOP BEING HAPPY. How can he be so content? While all I do is cry?


He is escaping. Escaping is often a trait that makes one susceptible to an affair.

Adegirl, I think the poster that asked you about his underlying character brought up a fantastic line of reasoning for you to consider.

Through that lens, your husband does not sound like a high character person. In fact, he sounds like someone who lays down when faced with difficulties.

Frankly, that does not sound like someone with which one should build a life.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Okay, I just caught up to the weed part.

You married a man-child. You have clearly outgrown him.

You are right not to rush to a decision. However, I would make him earn this marriage every damn day. If he can't handle that, then it should be time to set him free to find another employee for him to hit on.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

farsidejunky said:


> Okay, I just caught up to the weed part.
> 
> You married a man-child. You have clearly outgrown him.
> 
> You are right not to rush to a decision. *However, I would make him earn this marriage every damn day.* If he can't handle that, then it should be time to set him free to find another employee for him to hit on.


This :smthumbup:

He needs to see what he has done, I don't think he really has. You tell him, you will make a decision when you are in a more rational place. In the meantime he needs to think about what he has done and how he is gonna make it up to you. It will give you a clearer picture as to whether he is worth keeping. He is already 30 and sounds like a bit of a loser to be honest. However, young men change and step up to the plate sometimes........


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@adegirl2016 It sounds like you have grown out of him. He seems to be stuck in time, both emotionally and professionally, while you have continued to move forward and grow. The more I learn about you and your situation, the more impressed I am by your achievements... and the more I think your husband is a loser.

Your situation sounds a little like mine, except my story lacks the children and my XH didn't cheat on me. We met when I was 22 and he was 28; I was a server and he was a kitchen manager. At the time, I was in a pretty bad place, had (kind of) failed out of college and didn't know what to do with my life... and this older man, who seemed to have his sh!t together, because he was a manager, was into me, it made me feel like I mattered, that I was worth something. And that gave me encouragement and courage to go back and finish my undergrad degree part-time while I worked full-time, and by the time I finished my undergrad, I knew I wanted to go to grad school as well. By the time I finished grad school, I realized I was a completely different person than I was ten years earlier when I met him. I had moved forward by leaps and bounds during those 10 years... and he hadn't, at all. He was stagnant... no, he wasn't event stagnant; _he regressed_. He was working as a bartender, after he was requested to resign from his previous management position.

Among other things, I realized that the person I had become and grown into didn't belong with him anymore. I realized that I deserved better; I deserved more than he was able to give to me. He wasn't capable of a emotionally mature, adult relationship--I had been trying to drag him, kicking and screaming, into a healthy relationship for _years_, but he lacked the emotional intelligence and health to do it. Couples are supposed to grow together, and when one person grows and the other doesn't, well, the relationship usually stops working.

I hope you and your husband can work things out, but I think you deserve better than what he's been giving you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was married for decades to a man who never grew up. Financially, he was very successful but emotionally he remained a little boy. That made for a difficult life. 

Time moves faster than you can imagine. It seems the other day I was your age with a baby but that was long ago and I can't get those decades back. I hope your husband grows up and maybe he will. Have a plan in case he doesn't.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@adegirl2016 I hesitate to write this because it's inflammatory but it is my opinion. So I apologize to anyone on TAM who feels I'm maligning them

My W went to a good university and got her degree in restaurant management. Her first job was kitchen manager at a famous big city department store restaurant - but earning an hourly wage and only being paid 40 hours a week (working at least 60).

Years passed and she progressed up the ladder at a few places and ended up a GM over an operation with 7 restaurants, 100 hourly associates, and evening special events. Probably one of the biggest GM jobs in the system.

But she always had stories... this manager did this, this one didn't do that... a pattern emerged. Basically all the male restaurant managers were losers. These are hard, operational, high volume jobs with low paid hourly workers and turnover is high and customers are difficult. Good quality people often rise up out of those jobs - and a few stay and are exceptional which is why they can stay. But the rest couldn't hold a traditional job IMO.

I eventually told my W to change her viewpoint - if she has 8 managers at a particular point in time and only 2 are failing, call it a success. And that pattern worked great after that. It's just a matter of accepting what you have to work with.

Your H fits this profile to a tee! And not the exceptional outlier manager. I'm sorry but his past behavior and character make it likely - IMO as an Internet dude who doesn't know you guys - that he won't keep pace with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @adegirl2016 I hesitate to write this because it's inflammatory but it is my opinion. So I apologize to anyone on TAM who feels I'm maligning them
> 
> My W went to a good university and got her degree in restaurant management. Her first job was kitchen manager at a famous big city department store restaurant - but earning an hourly wage and only being paid 40 hours a week (working at least 60).
> 
> ...



Through working in restaurants myself (IN COLLEGE) i can attest to this. and I am sure there are a few good ones out there. My husbands direct manager seemed like one of them. But for the most part, most do fall in this category.

My husband has had several interviews last week with companies that would give him an office job. He is waiting to hear back from one in particular that we are hopeful for. I hope that he can get out of this industry. Not that it would change his character, but it has to help some. Instead of working with a bunch of young teenage girls, he would be working with real adults. I know real adults have affairs too.. but still..


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> @adegirl2016 I hesitate to write this because it's inflammatory but it is my opinion. So I apologize to anyone on TAM who feels I'm maligning them
> 
> My W went to a good university and got her degree in restaurant management. Her first job was kitchen manager at a famous big city department store restaurant - but earning an hourly wage and only being paid 40 hours a week (working at least 60).
> 
> ...


I have to say that I agree with this. A lot of the male managers that I worked with... tended to be losers. One was fired for selling drugs out of the office, one died of a cocaine overdose in the living room of one of the servers, one was having an EA online and asked me and my XH if his AP could stay at our place while she was in town, another (who had previously been promoted to area director for the chain) was fired for sleeping with an hourly employee, another was an alcoholic who spent most of his spare cash on houseboys/male escorts... the list goes on and on. And a LOT of them were horndogs--some of them were obvious about it, but the smart ones kept it on the DL so that very few people knew. I was in a strange position to know this because of my XH--since I was secretly dating a kitchen manager, which the other managers about (but none of the hourly staff did), I would hang out with the sometimes, and I knew a LOT of their dirty business that other people didn't. The few GOOD male managers I worked with moved up the ladder to corporate jobs, leveraged that managerial experience to move into another field (sometime related, like hotel management), or opened their own restaurants. I didn't work with as many female managers, but those with whom I did work didn't stay in the restaurant industry for long. One moved into hotel management, specializing in training and recruitment, and another left the industry completely and now works as an executive assistant for a non-profit. There was one manager I worked with who was getting her undergrad degree part-time, so I assume that she eventually left the industry. There was only one female manager I know who stayed in the industry, and that was because her husband was military and they moved around a lot, and for her it was a pretty portable career.

After what I saw working in the restaurant industry, I will never again date a man who works in a restaurant. The excessive drinking, drug use, and sex/infidelity runs rampant, and I don't want that in my life. Not worth it.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I am back again with some updates. Also because I need "someone" to talk to but anywhere but here is going to be a biased opinion.

Anyway...

So he went with me to the doctor to be STD tested. I am so glad I brought him. The doctor remembered us from when we had the baby a few weeks ago. So it was super awkward for my husband (GOOD). He also talked about birth control methods with me. I told him I wanted NO more kids. but he recommended, in front of my husband, that due to the situation, I should not do anything permanent. He says that I may want to have children with future partners. 
I think that really hit my husband in the gut. 

When we left the doctor, my husband called my dad. He apologized for what he put me and my family through. There were tears on both sides. My dad recommended to both of us that we try to move on and stop bringing it up.

My husband and I have had a good relationship. He is still open to any questions. He still seems to be trying. 

My problem is that everything is starting to feel normal again. Not the same as before, but I can feel that we are getting to a better place. As much as I should enjoy this, it is actually making me sad all over again. I am not ready for us to be a normal couple again. I am not over this. Does this mean that he should be doing more to reconcile? If so, what? 

Should I really stop bringing it up? I am not ready to stop. I can see why I should... there is no way to move forward if I don't. but I also don't want him to be too comfortable. 

What can help me/him/us at this point?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> My dad recommended to both of us that we try to move on and stop bringing it up.


Your dad is wrong. That is called rug-sweeping and usually ends up destroying the marriage it just takes longer. Your husband needs to confront the type of man he is. That means long hard work with a flashlight shining at every crack so he can sure them up. 

Proceed at your own risk. Personally, I think you can do much better than a grown man getting high all the time and going over to hs GF's house while his wife has his baby. Right now your are more like your husband's Mom.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> I am back again with some updates. Also because I need "someone" to talk to but anywhere but here is going to be a biased opinion.
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> ...


Your doctor is AWESOME. Most of the time, it ticks me off when a doctor advises a female patient (who says she doesn't want any more children), "I don't recommend permanent birth control because you might change your mind," which implies that the doctor thinks he knows better than the woman does about what she wants. But in this case, I think it was absolutely the right thing for him to say, because a) he is sending the message to your husband that, _dude, you really fvcked this up and you might lose her_, and b) it is a bad idea to make permanent, potentially life-altering decisions when you are in a state of distress, and the current situation certainly applies.

I'm glad your husband called your dad to apologize. That's big. BUT your dad is way wrong in his recommendation that you try to move on and stop bringing it up. I get why he said it. You're his baby girl, and he doesn't want you to be hurt, he doesn't want to see you in pain. He thinks it's the talking about it that is causing you pain, and he thinks if the talking stops, the pain will stop. But it won't. The pain will just go under the surface and fester on its own, and it will eventually rear it's ugly head at some point down the road. What your father is advocating for is rug sweeping, which isn't healthy and isn't going to solve your problems. In a superficial way, things may be better in a cosmetic sense, but the underlying problems won't be dealt with and will create bigger havoc down the road.

Say you have mold in your bathroom wall. You can treat it properly, and get to the root of the problem and fix the source of the mold to make sure that it never comes back. It's a PITA in the present, but it's the best long-term solution. Or you can slap on a coat of paint to cover up the unsightly mold so you don't have to see it anymore--out of sight, out of mind, right? But the original source of the mold hasn't been fixed, and so the mold will continue to grow and spread behind that wall, and before you know it, you have to rip out everything in the bathroom because the mold has spread everywhere.

Your dad is advising you to paint over the mold.

Don't blame him, though. He doesn't realize that he's giving you bad advice.

Infidelity isn't something you just get over in a month or two. It's one of the biggest betrayals a human can endure. To be able to recover and rebuilt from something like this takes time. I think another poster here quoted 2-3 years as the recovery time, and that sounds about right to me. And in order to recover, you need to be able to talk about it as much as you need to, and ask as many questions as you need to. This is a huge part of the healing process. If you're not talking about it, you're not healing. That doesn't mean that you should be talking about it all the time. But it should be a regular topic of conversation until you are ready to feel like a normal couple again. 

Have you guys started seeing a couples' counselor?


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## mickybill (Nov 29, 2016)

Tough spot for you to be in, but you seem pretty tough. I think that you and H are in a lot of different places like maturity, education, job success and feeling about the relationship.
Nobody other than you knows when it's time for you to "stop bringing it up" if you stay together eventually "it" will come up less and less. If things improve it won;t come up at all.
Your dad just wants you to be happy and for this to all go away...rugsweeping isn;t a long term solution. You don;t just get the car painted that ran into a brick wall. It needs to be repaired.

The world needs restaurant/bar managers but does H have plans/dreams other than his current job? As I grew up, I noticed that around 28-30 there was big fork in the road. I saw some people getting on the track to "careers" (Holy crap! She got a job where??!!) and others stayed in the the "jobs" the got when they were 22 (Holy crap! He is still working there??!!). IMO you are going one way and he is going another.
Long term do you see you as a couple where you earn the most but he deals with the kids during the day and still works in the service industry at night?


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Adegirl
Speaking as a MadHatter and a former wayward, do not stop querying until you feel absolutely safe. When I had my affair, we split immediately, when we agreed to reconcile, she wanted to feel safe. I was not to return to our home, but stay at my mom's. We both had to go into individual counseling and marriage counseling. My wife wanted to go on a date, but not with me. (Hall pass, deliberate revenge affair, we were split so she felt entitled). I will not go into the hurt, but I understood exactly what I put her through. 

We did not get back together until she felt safe with me. We did the entire courtship all over. At first, I did not want to risk meeting her at our home, the emotions were high enough that there could have been problems. We met at coffee shops. When we ran out of business items to discuss, we still kept going out for coffee. I was fairly certain that we were going nowhere, and it would be over. But we still went out for coffee. I took a chance and asked her out to a movie. That led to 4-5 nights a week where we dated. We stopped discussing business items. I started giving her my entire paycheck. We did the whole thing: Went parking, made out in the backseat of my car, eventually, she allowed me an overnight or two as long as I was gone by the time our daughter woke up. Eventually this became overnights and breakfast. Seven months after D-Day, I moved back in. We have been together and going strong for nearly 30 years.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Taxman said:


> Adegirl
> Speaking as a MadHatter and a former wayward, do not stop querying until you feel absolutely safe. When I had my affair, we split immediately, when we agreed to reconcile, she wanted to feel safe. I was not to return to our home, but stay at my mom's. We both had to go into individual counseling and marriage counseling. My wife wanted to go on a date, but not with me. (Hall pass, deliberate revenge affair, we were split so she felt entitled). I will not go into the hurt, but I understood exactly what I put her through.
> 
> We did not get back together until she felt safe with me. We did the entire courtship all over. At first, I did not want to risk meeting her at our home, the emotions were high enough that there could have been problems. We met at coffee shops. When we ran out of business items to discuss, we still kept going out for coffee. I was fairly certain that we were going nowhere, and it would be over. But we still went out for coffee. I took a chance and asked her out to a movie. That led to 4-5 nights a week where we dated. We stopped discussing business items. I started giving her my entire paycheck. We did the whole thing: Went parking, made out in the backseat of my car, eventually, she allowed me an overnight or two as long as I was gone by the time our daughter woke up. Eventually this became overnights and breakfast. Seven months after D-Day, I moved back in. We have been together and going strong for nearly 30 years.


Wow. I wish I would have done this from the beginning. I feel like it's too late now. Ahhhhhhh


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Wow. I wish I would have done this from the beginning. I feel like it's too late now. Ahhhhhhh


I do not think it is too late, ask for a separation, so that you can go about repairing the damage he has done. (I don't recommend what my wife wanted, given that you just gave birth and you may not want to go that route just yet). Give him a list of demands, that includes him moving home for a while, going into individual therapy. When you begin to feel safer, then you can go into marriage counselling together. He sounds like he has issues that are outside the marriage and it would serve you well for him to experience consequences. I believe my wife was looking for consequences. Without those consequences, I do not know if we would have survived.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I am back again with some updates. Also because I need "someone" to talk to but anywhere but here is going to be a biased opinion.
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> ...


I don't think there's really any way you can heal if you don't bring it up. It really should be on him to come to you with ways he will be transparent with you in all the things he does and also to try to make you know that he's serious about not doing anything like this ever again. If he isn't taking the initiative maybe he's not taking it serious enough. If he really wants to stay with you then he should be doing something to try to make that happen, not relying on what the shrink says.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You know it takes two of three years to repair a marriage, right? Make sure your H knows that. While he's in his 'I'm sorry' mode (it won't last), insist that you attend MC for as long as you want, he attends IC, you get a postnup agreement that states he will walk away with nothing if he's caught again, he writes out a complete timeline, and he agrees in writing that if he ever says 'will you just get over it' in some form, he leaves; moves out. And he agrees to a 'safe' 'state of the marriage' meeting once a month where you are both free to discuss anything. It keeps the relationship safe and moving forward.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

turnera said:


> You know it takes two of three years to repair a marriage, right? Make sure your H knows that. While he's in his 'I'm sorry' mode (it won't last), insist that you attend MC for as long as you want, he attends IC, you get a postnup agreement that states he will walk away with nothing if he's caught again, he writes out a complete timeline, and he agrees in writing that if he ever says 'will you just get over it' in some form, he leaves; moves out. And he agrees to a 'safe' 'state of the marriage' meeting once a month where you are both free to discuss anything. It keeps the relationship safe and moving forward.


Will do.
I guess our marriage counselor bailed on us? I can't get in touch with her. Been trying for two weeks. Weird bc I have been seeing her for years. She wasn't very helpful with this situation to me though. Seemed like she just wanted us to talk. I didn't get a lot of good advice. Seemed like she was just trying to hear out my husband.
So I guess we are going to have to start over with a new counselor. Maybe that's a good thing


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

The momma bear in me would file for divorce. Your WH put your life and your child's life at risk with his behavior. Do you know what a scourge HPV is these days? Not to mention the array of other STD's that you have been exposed to. It sounds like your tests are coming back OK, but what if they didn't? Your WH put your life and your baby's life in jeopardy. Do you know how common it is for women to find themselves with cervical cancer because their H's were having affairs or visiting prostitutes?

You seem like a mature, intelligent woman. Your WH isn't marriage material - or father material - if he is doing what he is doing during your pregnancy. It takes 2-5 years to reconcile after infidelity & my bet is that your intelligent mind will tell you in that time that you deserve far better for your future.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> We got married too quickly. When we met, he was actually my manager at this restaurant/bar that we both worked at. It was in a little college town. So it's not surprise that he continues to go for girls that he works with. I mean... he did it to me. But it was different then because we were young and single.
> 
> We got pregnant with our son after just a few months of dating. Our parents pressured us to marry (mostly his). I feel like they pressured him to marry me because they knew I was a catch. I am not trying to talk myself up here. Because right now.. in many ways... i feel like the ugliest woman on the planet. But I feel like to his parents, I would be a great fit.
> 
> ...


If parents push a son to marry a girl because she is "good for him," you should RUN LIKE THE WIND. I'm saying this for the future. Because when parents push this way, they usually know inside that he's a fvk up and think that a good, strong woman will be able to wake him up. Problem is that no external force is going to change him. People have to change themselves if they so choose. Meanwhile, no thought is given to what YOU actually deserve, which is man that has his stuff together. The fact you became pregnant just gave his parents a great society reason to throw their unprepared son into the deep end to see if he can learn to swim.

Eta: don't let the father encourage rug sweeping. One "come to Jesus" moment with the doctor doesn't dissolve your hurt magically and reset the clock for your man. Remorse, if it's genuine, takes consistent years for there to be healing in the relationship, as, @turnera said.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I am back again with some updates. Also because I need "someone" to talk to but anywhere but here is going to be a biased opinion.
> 
> Anyway...
> 
> ...


Of course you are not over, it can take years and it never goes away, there will always be triggers. Your dad and WH wants it all to go away, as its uncomfortable for them, rugsweeping will keep all happy except you. Do not go down that route, be sure to take time out and see what it is you want. I hope you are not having sex with your WH because this creates emotional ties and you need to have a clear head to see what it is you actually want. YOu have to be the one to tell your WH what he must do to enable you to heal from the hurt.
I would suggest you keep a journal of your thoughts, the hurts, what it is your WH does or does not do to help you heal. Then have a chat with him. If he is willing to bend over backwards to help you heal, then you have a chance, if not then you know what your future holds.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> The momma bear in me would file for divorce. Your WH put your life and your child's life at risk with his behavior. Do you know what a scourge HPV is these days? Not to mention the array of other STD's that you have been exposed to. It sounds like your tests are coming back OK, but what if they didn't? Your WH put your life and your baby's life in jeopardy. Do you know how common it is for women to find themselves with cervical cancer because their H's were having affairs or visiting prostitutes?
> 
> You seem like a mature, intelligent woman. Your WH isn't marriage material - or father material - if he is doing what he is doing during your pregnancy. It takes 2-5 years to reconcile after infidelity & my bet is that your intelligent mind will tell you in that time that you deserve far better for your future.


I agree. It's crazy to think that cheaters do not even consider the fact that they may be spreading disease. The thing is, I have already had issues with cervical cancer scares. It started right after I had my first. So I guess he is just out spreading this around??!! Not to say that everyone will get it, but once you get that HPV strain, it will always be an issue.

My life changed after I had my first son. I knew I had to provide for him the best that I could. My husband never changed. Until now. Him and our son have always had a decent relationship. I never felt like he was giving him enough dad/son time. Until now....

I have a feeling that if I gave myself time to clear my head, I probably would leave. I guess only time will tell.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

aine said:


> Of course you are not over, it can take years and it never goes away, there will always be triggers. Your dad and WH wants it all to go away, as its uncomfortable for them, rugsweeping will keep all happy except you. Do not go down that route, be sure to take time out and see what it is you want. I hope you are not having sex with your WH because this creates emotional ties and you need to have a clear head to see what it is you actually want. YOu have to be the one to tell your WH what he must do to enable you to heal from the hurt.
> I would suggest you keep a journal of your thoughts, the hurts, what it is your WH does or does not do to help you heal. Then have a chat with him. If he is willing to bend over backwards to help you heal, then you have a chance, if not then you know what your future holds.


We have had sex, only because I feel so lonely. and because I am scared that if I stop, it would make our relationship worse (but I guess thats not MY worry right now, right?)
I have started journaling.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Satya said:


> If parents push a son to marry a girl because she is "good for him," you should RUN LIKE THE WIND. I'm saying this for the future. Because when parents push this way, they usually know inside that he's a fvk up and think that a good, strong woman will be able to wake him up. Problem is that no external force is going to change him. People have to change themselves if they so choose. Meanwhile, no thought is given to what YOU actually deserve, which is man that has his stuff together. The fact you became pregnant just gave his parents a great society reason to throw their unprepared son into the deep end to see if he can learn to swim.
> 
> Eta: don't let the father encourage rug sweeping. One "come to Jesus" moment with the doctor doesn't dissolve your hurt magically and reset the clock for your man. Remorse, if it's genuine, takes consistent years for there to be healing in the relationship, as, @turnera said.


This is so true... looking back on things.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say you had a cervical cancer scare. Do you test positive for HPV? No matter what, it sounds like your WH has been cheating for a while.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Yes I did/do have it. It's a very scary thing to deal with. Im not sure if it comes and goes? This was back when I had my son. I don't think they test me for HPV unless I have an abnormal pap again.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

If it does stay with you forever, I guess she may have it.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Wait, what? When did you test positive for HPV? 

Seriously, I think some how you are afraid. I believe you loved your husband completely but are now numb and grasping at straws to attain normalcy, but that false normalcy is just that...FALSE. you don't live in pleasantville and you don't love your husband right now. I believe you want to love him. I was like that...Hell I am like that at times that I get angered. 

I think you should SERIOUSLY think about separation now. I really think the space of even a MONTH or TWO can give you. 

I kicked my husband out, but financially he could not go very far. (THE BACK YARD) We had to lay ground rules about the separation so it would feel more independent. Eventually it looked like he was doing enough to warrant trying Reconciliation again, but.... I was also hurried by the weather. I did not want him to be in a heath risky situation. 

There are times I want to give up and move on. But i don't have the independence opportunities you have. I have not worked in almost 12 years a REAL job. Sometimes I wonder if its fear that keeps me in place. 

What keeps you trying? Because Im not sure I will believe you still love him... I think you miss and love what you THOUGHT you had. And you are wondering if that can all come back? Because if its that I understand that. Im 2 years in, and Im still not any closer to getting that feeling back. It's not for lack of trying. I think you just need to decide what you want? I feel you are meant for more than he is. I think you are stronger without him. 

Me on the other hand. My husband is weak without me and Im weak without him. (We have our separate problems that are not similar to your situation) 

You can do this. Get some space and clarity. Get away from him for a while and see who you really are and who you want to be. Think about this horrible situation without his face clouding your thoughts. Without thinking during sex, was it better with HER? 

God...I could go on, but as someone who is 2 years into walking the path you are about to go on, I just want to stop you and say get some SPACE. 

Take a relationship break from him. He is on the verge of shattering in to pieces. But you know what is important about that? After he has been broken down, he can chose to rebuild himself again. Maybe into the man that you actually want. A man that is willing to DO WHAT IT TAKES. 

Kicking my husband out did break him down, and he is becoming a better person. Not perfect. But better. 

Anyway Im rambling....

You are STRONG, you seem to already know it. go see that strength in action.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> We have had sex, only because I feel so lonely. and because I am scared that if I stop, it would make our relationship worse (but I guess thats not MY worry right now, right?)
> I have started journaling.


Since he is making an effort to be a better husband, father and man, don't cut him off from sex. It he starts to backslide then you will no choice. Using sex as a weapon or to control your partner never works.

Once reconciliation is off the table and divorce is inevitable, then cut him off and tell him why. No games.

Men need sex. Lack of it makes them do stupid things. Your husband has shown his stupid side.

The fact that you enjoy sex makes him even stupid-er.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> Since he is making an effort to be a better husband, father and man, don't cut him off from sex. It he starts to backslide then you will no choice. Using sex as a weapon or to control your partner never works.
> 
> Once reconciliation is off the table and divorce is inevitable, then cut him off and tell him why. No games.
> 
> ...


But... many women need emotional security for sex. And she doesn't have that. If she resumes sex because she feels like she has to, she may resent him for that later. He needs to earn it back.

I hear what you're saying, and i agree, using it as a weapons or a means of control never works. But I don't think that's what's going on here.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I do need to feel the closeness from sex. I start to get irritable after a few days without it. So that is part of the reason why.
I also do it because I don't want him getting it else where and maybe I am also trying to prove that I am better than her. 

I don't know why I am so afraid to leave. The thing is... our relationship has NEVER been great. EVER. I have never been happy with him. I put up with his crap because I took a vow to do so. I thought that maybe I could help him grow up.
I figured that when I had hard core proof that I should leave, such as cheating, that I would do so. Instead... here I am. I have the proof. He admitted to it. Why am I here? 

Maybe he will change. He has already made some... but I still feel like I am going to regret staying later on. 

I'm not afraid to be alone. I know me and the kids will be okay. I think I am scared of the initial shock. How would I tell him to leave? Where would he go? How would I pay the bills? What will our families say? etc.


Also, right now he is jobless. It's been two weeks since he has had a job. He has been applying everywhere, and has a few good leads. But I don't want to leave until I know he has a job. Good thing we had some money in savings... but it's going to run out very soon.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> I do need to feel the closeness from sex. I start to get irritable after a few days without it. So that is part of the reason why.
> I also do it because I don't want him getting it else where and maybe I am also trying to prove that I am better than her.
> 
> I don't know why I am so afraid to leave. *The thing is... our relationship has NEVER been great. EVER. I have never been happy with him. I put up with his crap because I took a vow to do so.* I thought that maybe I could help him grow up.
> ...


People don't change. When they show you who they are, believe them.

You've never been happy in this relationship. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in a relationship that doesn't make you happy? For that matter, why do you want to have sex with a man who has never really made you happy?

You deserve better than this.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I think I just want to have sex and pretend that I am happy!!

I am hoping maybe he is really going to grow up now. That's the only reason.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

You can certainly spend your life pretending. And hoping. Many people do (I was one). 

When you're cheated on, the innocence is gone forever. You know going forward what your spouse is capable of. Don't get caught off-guard again. Have a plan to stay (if you really want that) and a plan to go (for your own peace of mind). Life goes all too quickly.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Regarding the shock, you can address this by telling him small snippets of what you're feeling. Like it may never be enough. That you always said you would leave, and now you don't know what to do. That the marriage has never been great. Let him start hearing your doubts out loud, so he starts to understand where you're at. That way, there will be much less shock when you finally leave.

You deserve a better life, ok?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

turnera said:


> Regarding the shock, you can address this by telling him small snippets of what you're feeling. Like it may never be enough. That you always said you would leave, and now you don't know what to do. That the marriage has never been great. Let him start hearing your doubts out loud, so he starts to understand where you're at. That way, there will be much less shock when you finally leave.
> 
> You deserve a better life, ok?



yeah ... this is petty much what I have already been doing. I just wish the whole situation would just go away :/


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> I do need to feel the closeness from sex. I start to get irritable after a few days without it. So that is part of the reason why.
> I also do it because I don't want him getting it else where and maybe I am also trying to prove that I am better than her.
> 
> Don't compete. Think of what you're "winning". He's not a prize.
> ...


I had an immature cheating husband that had trouble keeping a job. I stayed married to him because of the kids. Kept hoping he'd grow up into a decent person. Divorced him 6 years in when my daughters were 6 and 1 year old. By then, I didn't care where he went or what people would say. I'd had enough.

It's 17 years later. He's still pulling the same crap he pulled back then. 43 years old and hasn't changed a bit. The only difference is that it's not my problem anymore.


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## In2thewoods (Jan 25, 2017)

Oh Adegirl, I feel you.
I'm new to TAM; yours was the first thread I followed when I started this December. Reading about your struggle triggered me over and over, but I wanted to see you recover, see you be intelligent and tough and caring and wise. I want to encourage you, but other commentors are right-- I went through just over 2 years ago and there are still struggles. 
My DH is an executive chef and he cheated (EA and PA) with an hourly server literally half his age. He confessed because my extended family was asking questions about his taking this "young woman" under his wing, spending time with her, and I defended my husband to my own family. He was truly repentent when he saw how far he had gone, that I was defending him when he didn't deserve it. He immediately started IC and couples C, we both got checked for STDs (so humiliating). I had NEVER seen him so humble and teachable. That wore off after about 6 months, but he did learn new skills for communicating and not drinking, (which was his enabling substance of choice). He has never blamed me, deflected my comments, told me to stop asking questions, or anything else that has made me doubt him since, but I still do doubt.
One thing that people kept saying was, "you've got to learn to trust again, and everything will fall in place....It will take time, you need to rebuild trust" I was thankful for kindness and advice, but DUH. Trust has been shattered. Marriages are built on trust. Of COURSE it had to be rebuilt. HOW? Send him to a strip club and see if he comes home without smelling like perfume? Hire a hot babysitter and set up a nannycam to prove he's not straying? 2 years later and the best answer anyone has given me for how trust rebuilds is, "You choose to forgive, and though that doesn't mean you forget, you believe that they mean to turn their back on who they WERE and become new; and your belief in them is the foundation of trust that builds in every little way they keep promises to you". This requires faith, and while I am a bornagain Christian, faith is hard for me. I also have a strong cynical side because of my past, I know how hard it is for people to change. 
It is still hard...I'm never on Facebook, and just today I was randomly looking at my DH's friends and saw he is STILL friends with Her. She moved jobs shortly after the infidelity ended/was revealed, I checked his phone and computer religiously for months afterward (so did a close male relative of mine who my husband asked to be his accountability partner), I know he had no contact with her through email/text-- even now I feel like an idiot-- how could I not check FB? You're going to second guess yourself alot, but it comes down to me just believing what he says, that he hasn't talked to her in years, and he unfriended her immediately in front of me.
I think it's totally normal to feel lonely and need sex, to feel like you need to ask more questions, to suspect dishonesty and feel defensive, to still not even know if you want to separate or not...and all the other things you've been struggling with. 
Take good care of yourself and your little ones; no worries if you're only able to do the basics for them right now. I believe they are young enough that most of the trauma [that you are feeling right now] will not affect them long term. 

Sadly, my fellow Adegirl supporters are right-- you are sooooo not alone. Its ok if you feel crazy/lost/pissed/lonely/sad/hopeful/vengeful... and all in the same day.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

It's crazy to think that tomorrow makes 2 months since d-day. I feel like it was just yesterday. The pain isn't as bad. It's a different kind of pain. Finding out that your husband cheated when you are 9 months pregnant is a pain you will NEVER forget. I literally felt like someone was stabbing me in the stomach. Like I said.. it's not as bad now. But it's still there. I can't stand it. I don't see how I will ever get through this unless I leave. I can't stop thinking of them together. especially because I am still trying to lose this baby weight. My skin is saggy in some places. Many tell me they can't even believe I have had a baby. But I am so hard on myself. She doesn't have any kids. She's a little younger. I'm sure her body looked great. Why am I so damn jealous? I hate when I get in these moods.

I know I have posted something similar to this. 
I know revenge affairs are terrible but I feel like that would be the only way I could mentally move on. I know it's not healthy. I know if I am feeling that bad about it, I should just go. Easier said than done!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> It's crazy to think that tomorrow makes 2 months since d-day. I feel like it was just yesterday. The pain isn't as bad. It's a different kind of pain. Finding out that your husband cheated when you are 9 months pregnant is a pain you will NEVER forget. I literally felt like someone was stabbing me in the stomach. Like I said.. it's not as bad now. But it's still there. I can't stand it. I don't see how I will ever get through this unless I leave. I can't stop thinking of them together. especially because I am still trying to lose this baby weight. My skin is saggy in some places. Many tell me they can't even believe I have had a baby. But I am so hard on myself. She doesn't have any kids. She's a little younger. I'm sure her body looked great. Why am I so damn jealous? I hate when I get in these moods.
> 
> I know I have posted something similar to this.
> I know revenge affairs are terrible but I feel like that would be the only way I could mentally move on. I know it's not healthy. I know if I am feeling that bad about it, I should just go. Easier said than done!


Remember, his bullsh!t behavior doesn't have anything to do with YOU. It's him and his shortcomings. You are not to blame for this. 

And don't bother with comparing yourself to her. He went after some slvtty strange. She could have easily been 250# and 20 years older than you with a pimply ass. You don't have to compete with her, because it's not about her, either.

Channel this energy into making your escape plan.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Okay so Valentines Day has me thinking about this again. Well - I think about it 24/7 but today it's pretty intense. So I was thinking back to a few years ago. May of 2014.

In May of 2014, I discovered texts in my husbands phone from some chick he worked with. Smiley faces and stuff. I could tell it was flirting, but I was so stupid that I immediately flipped out. He took the phone and deleted everything. I logged onto verizons website and was able to get that months messages. Just the to and from. There were hundreds of messages between him and this chick. We were on his parents plan at the time, so somehow I only got access to one bill.

Anyway - he denied anything physical happened. She did too. He continued talking to her even after I found out. He continued to work there for another 6 months before quitting. 

Looking back, I wish I would have left then. 


Fast forward to now, and it crossed my mind. Of course, since this most recent episode, I have thought about it, but I never thought to go back and pull up that cell phone bill.

So here I am .. looking at this bill that is almost 3 years old. Hundreds of messages over the course of a month. They would start texting at 8 am and text until midnight. Constant messaging. One at 8:01.. another at 8:02... a reply at 8:03... 

He always denied something physical, but now I am pretty positive I was stupid as hell, and he did in fact cheat on me. 


Maybe I shouldn't be looking at this crap. But I am telling myself I need to face reality and thats why I am looking at something so old. 

Sorry.. I probably should have disclosed this info to you guys earlier in the game. Maybe I did.. this thread is so long now that I can't remember if I did.

So ... he is a habitual offender.

Oh... and I think that he thinks that because he got me diamond earrings, a necklace, roses and all that other crap yesterday, that I shouldn't bring this up or something. wtf.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Oh and there were two D-Days for this.

The first, I flipped out and left. Took our son and went out of town for a few days. He kept denying anything happened and said he wouldn't talk to her anymore. He got a DUI on this weekend (his 3rd DUI all together - two were from when he was in college). We ended up paying over 12k for this third mistake. 
I stayed because we had just built a house and were literally closing on the home that day. No kidding. I didn't know what to do. I remember I called the builder and asked them what would happen if I backed out and he said they could possibly sue.
It was builder financed so we didn't pay for the building up front.

Anyway, under pressure, I decided to stay.

The 2nd D-Day for this was when we were already moved in. It was about a month later.
Somehow, I saw his messages again and saw that they were texting. 
This time, he got all suicidal. He told me he would leave and we would never see him again if I divorced him. He got all crazy and broke his phone. He promised he would stop. I never saw her number again. 





Again... I am just now remembering all of this like right now. So I need to vent.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

All you are doing is making the case even more air-tight to leave this man-child behind.

You are seeing things clearly with regard to 2014.

Serial cheat.

And three (3!?!) DUI's???


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> All you are doing is making the case even more air-tight to leave this man-child behind.
> 
> You are seeing things clearly with regard to 2014.
> 
> ...



Yep. and he still does not have a new job. He quit this one because of the affair. It's been 3 weeks. He spends time applying to places, but not a lot. Like right now... he could be up applying for jobs but he is still sleeping. We are about to run out of money and I am so concerned. I am SO STRESSED OUT!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> Yep. and he still does not have a new job. He quit this one because of the affair. It's been 3 weeks. He spends time applying to places, but not a lot. Like right now... he could be up applying for jobs but he is still sleeping. We are about to run out of money and I am so concerned. I am SO STRESSED OUT!!!


Is he aware of the money situation? He may need to take a job he doesn't like or want. He has a family to support. He doesn't have room to complain, either--he brought this on himself.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Adegirl:

It is easy to avoid the inevitable choice you will have to make if you keep focusing on his inaction.

This is a form of avoidance by shifting your focus towards him and ignoring the elephant in the room.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't know that I'm ignoring it. I am acknowledging his faults more and more everyday. I find myself more and more disgusted with him with each passing day. I need a real man. 
I wish he could be that man, given that he is the father of my children. But at the end of the day, I have ZERO respect for him.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't know that I'm ignoring it. I am acknowledging his faults more and more everyday. I find myself more and more disgusted with him with each passing day. I need a real man.
> I wish he could be that man, given that he is the father of my children. But at the end of the day, I have ZERO respect for him.


Good. Keep this at the forefront of all of your interactions. Either he steps up and becomes this man, or he becomes your ex. 

Frankly, I don't think he packs the gear to be the former.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

He finally got a job. Making more than before, but still in a restaurant. He is going to be the GM of it. He will spend 6 weeks training in a town about 2 hours away. He can choose to stay in a hotel or to commute daily.

Not sure how thats going to go. 

We are taking the kids on a short trip to the beach tomorrow. I would normally be super excited, but I'm not. Something about doing "normal" family things makes me sad. It's almost like I don't want to do these things with HIM.

The pain is still unreal. Crazy because we are 2 1/2 months out from D-Day. I guess it has not been nearly enough time. I wish I could move forward, for my own sake. 

Maybe when he is gone for the 6 weeks, I will have a chance to think clearly about all of this. He has been home for weeks now, and I am growing tired of him always being here. Him always being here also prevents me from being able to think on my own about my life and whats happened. 

I also think that I will think more clearly when I return to work in a few weeks.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> He finally got a job. Making more than before, but still in a restaurant. He is going to be the GM of it. He will spend 6 weeks training in a town about 2 hours away. He can choose to stay in a hotel or to commute daily.
> 
> Not sure how thats going to go.
> 
> ...


After what happened, I would insist that he commute, rather than staying on location in a hotel. He will inevitably complain that you don't trust him. And your response should be, "Damn right I don't, and whose fault is that?"

Until he proves that he can be trusted again, you'll need to keep him on a very short leash.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Anyone can see that you are wasting your life with a POS serial cheater and liar who moves from OW to OW, having sex without protection and exposing his poor wife and babies to life-threatening diseases. Hell, he has even given you a disease than can kill you.

I'm going to say this as a woman who is old enough to be your mother:

- Your WH has a character flaw that you can't fix.
- His flaw is your pain.
- You have a very bright future ahead of you as a well-educated, mature, responsible member of society.
- You are an attractive young woman who would have no trouble finding a quality mate.
- Your WH is not a quality mate.
- In just a few years' time you will have completely outgrown your shallow, mendacious, unfaithful, selfish, crybaby of a husband and will wonder why you thought you had to stay.

Get out now before you test positive for chlamydia, syphilis, gonorrhea, and/or AIDS. I'm not being dramatic here. You are FAR too good for this lowlife of a man.

If you were my daughter, I would bundle you and the kids up and spirit you away from him, after which I would send my own H over to bag his crap up in plastic bags and change the locks. (Knowing my H, if it were my daughter going through this, your WH would be feeling severe heat already.)

Don't believe his crocodile tears. He is not going through a growing-up stage. He has a character flaw. He needs serious work on himself to be safe for you and your kids.

In short, OP, in case I have been too subtle.....he is a POS selfish baby and you are way, way, way too good for him.

Save yourself the next few years in which your heart catches up with your head. File for D now. You don't know the half of his cheating. I would bet on it.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> Anyone can see that you are wasting your life with a POS serial cheater and liar who moves from OW to OW, having sex without protection and exposing his poor wife and babies to life-threatening diseases. Hell, he has even given you a disease than can kill you.
> 
> I'm going to say this as a woman who is old enough to be your mother:
> 
> ...


Thank you for this. My mother is not in my life anymore. She is crazy as hell and maybe that's is why I have come to make some bad decisions in my younger days. I think that's why sometimes I don't see myself as "good enough". She basically abandoned me at a young age. When she is around now, she manipulates and gaslights me. It's crazy how some people who grew up this way go on to find partners just like the flawed parent. 

Anyway. It's so weird that I am sitting here on a mini vacation with him and the kids and contemplating divorce. It's almost like I needed to see how he was going to act on this vacation to make a decision too.

For example, last night I put on this really cute dress. I was so happy I had as able to fit into it- given that I am 10 weeks postpartum. It's a big deal to look good in your clothes at this point! Anyway. He says ... it's so cold. You are wearing that?? 
He said that probably 3 times. Then he told me when the wind was blowing that I was about to flash everyone.
For one, the dress wasn't that short. Two, it was 68 degrees outside. Why couldn't he have just said "wow! You look great!"
Why does he have to put me down? If any other chick was wearing what I was, he would have been drooling. 
Idk. It's not that he's acting like an ass. He's just not bing what I want him to be.

Oh... and I sort of wanted him in a hotel while he trains for work so I could have some space from him lol


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

One more thing. 
Speaking of my mother, I stopped talking to her the week I found out he was cheating. Just thought it was extra cruel that he knew of the pain I was going through with that and still cheated. I know cheaters don't care so what's it matter anyway.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Just wondering this.... you say not to believe his years. Why? Why would he not just leave and do what he wants to? I don't get it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> He finally got a job. Making more than before, but still in a restaurant. He is going to be the GM of it. He will spend 6 weeks training in a town about 2 hours away. He can choose to stay in a hotel or to commute daily.
> 
> Not sure how thats going to go.
> 
> ...


There are definitely better men out there.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> Just wondering this.... you say not to believe his years. Why? Why would he not just leave and do what he wants to? I don't get it.


People often want their cake and eat it, too. It's really common not to just leave. They sweet talk the spouse and have their fun on the side. They spend huge amounts of time and expend untold effort to hide what they are doing. And for what? To keep having their cake, it seems.

What is also a well-established bit of human behavior is the experience of not even coming close to waking up a spouse to what (s)he stands to lose if the lying and cheating doesn't stop - until the BS gets real religion and leaves. Then suddenly, the WS 'sees' the truth of it all, which is that the family at home is the real prize. By this time, the BS is very often disgusted and done. This is a true part of the script.

You know I think that your WS isn't worth it. He's a liar. He's still lying. He hasn't reformed. He hasn't even come close to doing the work to reform.

I think you should free yourself and then wear that dress for a man who can really appreciate it.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

Ade, I just read through your whole thread and the entire time I knew this wasn't his first rodeo. He established a pattern with you and this coworker. He almost certainly cheated on you with that girl in 2014. He's also 30 so any changes he could be making are going to be pretty minimal and considering he hasn't given you the full truth about what happened in 2014 and is too insecure to pay you a compliment over a dress, there really isn't much hope for him. Ade, you can't heal, forgive, and reconcile without the truth. Getting the full truth is step 1 to reconciling. So remember when he wanted you to give him credit for all that progress back when he lied about having full intercourse with her? That progress didn't mean crap without the truth and I know for a fact the books he read explained why you need the full truth and nothing but the truth about this affair and any other former affairs because of how damaging trickle truth is and he's STILL hiding the truth from you.

Think about if you were following a step-by-step guide for constructing a desk from Ikea. Trying to move on from infidelity without the truth is like skipping steps 1-3 and going straight to step 4. Do you really think if you skip the first steps of building a desk that you're going to end up with a functional desk at the end? Of course not! That's what he's asking of you. He wants to skip around and do the steps of reconciling that he wants to which is guaranteed to fail either by you not being able to heal because you're always wondering and thinking about it or by you catching him in another affair because he didn't learn crap from the books he supposedly read and didn't follow. He's not making progress because he's not doing what the books recommend. He's doing just enough to make you think there's progress when there isn't any.

You deserve so much better than dealing with a spouse who isn't giving you everything you need to heal from this. You're thinking about divorce because you're smart and you know that the only thing he can do is disappoint you with the truth of 2014 and probably another affair with one of his future subordinates in this next job. Or he'll be fired because he has a questionable work ethic and he's trying to become a manager. You can ask my exboss how well that ended for him. You're in such a better place right now to leave him than you will be years down the road when that disappointment inevitably happens. And even if it doesn't, who wants to be stuck in a loveless, sexless marriage at 25? No one. You can do so much better than this but only if you stand up for yourself and seize the opportunity.


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

> Just wondering this.... you say not to believe his years. Why? Why would he not just leave and do what he wants to? I don't get it.


Well, let's see... He has free child care (AKA you). He has a free chef (you). He has a free maid (you). And he has a free sex robot (also you). He'd also lose a large portion of his income to child support and he would lose time with his kids. He'd also have to do the leg work of moving out and finding a new place to live and that's too haaaaard for a man who doesn't really have his life together. What person in their right mind would want to walk away from their free live-in chef, maid, baby sitter, sex robot, lose tons of money, lose seeing their kids every day, and have to find a new place to live?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

You are right. The book clearly said to come clean about everything. Hell, I didn't even need him to come clean about the past. I just needed the WHOLE truth about the current affair. The book told him to do it, and he didn't. He only did it when I acted like I knew. 

I just got off the phone with an attorney. Based off of how our state works, he recommended we file for separation and get an agreement on file. it may take a year to divorce.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> I just got off the phone with an attorney. Based off of how our state works, he recommended we file for separation and get an agreement on file. it may take a year to divorce.


Yes! You've got up a head of steam here. Keep going. Stay strong.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

My father advised that I make an exit plan first, which includes making sure I have enough money incase things are crazy in the beginning or incase he runs off and doesn't pay child support. I've done some calculations, and I will be okay on my own. Especially considering I am graduating in 2 months, the job that I want will pay almost twice what I make now. I have some connections to this job, so I shouldn't have an issue with this. 
Anyway, with that said, does anyone have advice on exit plans? I know there are other boards for this, but I have gotten far better response on this one.


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## JayOwen (Oct 26, 2016)

I can't make any suggestions for an exit plan but I just wanted to say I think you're awesome -- you're taking care of your kids, and yourself, and doing the hard work that nobody ever wants to contemplate they might have to do.

From one betrayed to another: keep it up!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I just did a quick google search on exit plans for a bad marriage, and a couple helpful things popped up at the top of the search:

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...ow+to+make+an+exit+plan+from+a+bad+marriage&*

Hope these help.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

A year goes by really quick, especially if you focus on healing yourself.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

JayOwen said:


> I think you're awesome -- you're taking care of your kids, and yourself, and doing the hard work that nobody ever wants to contemplate they might have to do.
> 
> From one betrayed to another: keep it up!


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

When my first husband cheated and I left I had no plan other than to get as far away from him as possible. With my second husband, I just kicked HIM out. Your father is wise to advise you to make a plan ahead of time 

You obviously should open a bank account he knows nothing about and squirrel money away.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Well... i won't even take a year. Probably just a few months. 2 -3 at most. Just enough for me to put a couple thousand aside. I already have a separate account with some money set aside. i think I am going to need to get this money out in cash.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

So I am leaving him soon anyway. Like as SOON as I have the money. But this annoys me:

So I am going to a concert Saturday night with my girlfriends. First time going out since the baby has been born. He is asking me if he can smoke weed while I am out. 

I think its funny he is asking me... bc he says that part of the reason for the affair was his "clouded judgement" from smoking.
You would think in efforts to R, he would stay far away.
He is so damn annoying!!! 
I want to tell him to do whatever the hell he wants.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> So I am leaving him soon anyway. Like as SOON as I have the money. But this annoys me:
> 
> So I am going to a concert Saturday night with my girlfriends. First time going out since the baby has been born. He is asking me if he can smoke weed while I am out.
> 
> ...


LOL what a dope.

Pun intended.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> So I am leaving him soon anyway. Like as SOON as I have the money. But this annoys me:
> 
> So I am going to a concert Saturday night with my girlfriends. First time going out since the baby has been born. He is asking me if he can smoke weed while I am out.
> 
> ...


Your life is going to be so much better without this loser. If you ever meet a real man come back and post us about what the difference is. It will be fun read.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Seriously. If I can find a way to pay my fairly large tuition bill coming up in May, without him, I would be gone now. I am so GD miserable. With everyday that goes by, and the more I research, the more I read on here - the more I hate his guts! I am so mad. I wish I would have kicked his stupid ass to the curb on day 1. He didn't deserve to see his baby girls birth. He wasn't thinking about that when he was screwing some teenager the week before. It's becoming very hard staying in this home. I want to tell him to get out. But I need this big bill paid first. Thanks for listening to my rant.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

sokillme said:


> your life is going to be so much better without this loser. If you ever meet a real man come back and post us about what the difference is. It will be fun read.



i can't wait!!!!!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

So for whatever reason, last night, I asked him a few questions.

What did you say to her about me? You never came up.
Why did you start flirting with her? She came on to me. She would not stop hitting on me. In fact, if she would have not tried so hard, this would have never happened! She started it and I eventually followed.
Why didn't you stop after kissing her a few days before? Because it felt good to be pursued. 

IDK. Something about this conversation pisses me off. I guess it would have pissed me off, no matter what his answers were.

Here we are. 3 1/2 months from D-Day. and I am NO WHERE near over it. This is still a daily struggle for me. WILL THIS EVER END??!??!?!

He stopped reading the books long ago. He hasn't looked into individual counseling or marriage counseling, even after I have asked him to. He says he has been so busy with work and that counseling offices aren't open when he is off (true, i guess). 
I know in my heart that I am going to leave as soon as my stupid tuition bill is paid, but I can't help but be sad to feel like he's not putting in the effort. Sure, when we're together, we are not fighting and things are ok... but that doesn't stop a person from cheating. I feel like he should be reading. Doing some soul searching. Finding a way to make counseling work.

Maybe I need to see a doctor or something. My days are filled with constant anxiety and stress. Most of my days I spend worried about this in some form or fashion. Maybe I am going crazy being home 24/7 with the baby. Maybe it will get better when I return to work. Until then... guess I'll just vent here. Pretty sure everyone around me is tired of hearing it :/


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

If you are not going to reconcile, all of this information does not matter.

Given that he has basically done jack and **** to get to the bottom of why he cheated and to make himself a safe partner again, you definitely need to leave him behind.

Stop engaging. Stop asking questions. If you are leaving, it is nothing but an exercise in futility.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> If you are not going to reconcile, all of this information does not matter.
> 
> Given that he has basically done jack and **** to get to the bottom of why he cheated and to make himself a safe partner again, you definitely need to leave him behind.
> 
> Stop engaging. Stop asking questions. If you are leaving, it is nothing but an exercise in futility.


I don't know why I keep torturing myself over this. I know obsessing over it is not helping anything. I know that by allowing it to take over my life isn't healthy for me or my kids but I can't stop. I hate him with every inch of me. I hate this stupid **** that was after my husband. I hate them both. I hate this whole situation.


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## browser (Oct 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't know why I keep torturing myself over this. I know obsessing over it is not helping anything. I know that by allowing it to take over my life isn't healthy for me or my kids but I can't stop. I hate him with every inch of me. I hate this stupid **** that was after my husband. I hate them both. I hate this whole situation.


You need to stop viewing this guy as your husband, a person you love and who you trusted who has this ability to inflict great pain on you. 

Your goal is to get to a mental place where you perceive him as an ex business partner with whom you will be terminating a contract because he did not keep his part of the bargain, because he misrepresented himself and his intentions. He is, or soon will be just another person in your life who needs to be dealt with just like you deal with an unpaid utility bill or something along those lines. 

It's going to take time but you need to relocate him out of your head. He doesn't deserve to be there.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@adegirl2016 His comment that counselors aren't open when he's available is BS. There are counselors that have evening and weekend hours, specifically because a lot of people work during the day.

His answers to your questions are BS, too. 

He's not making any effort to fix this quagmire that he created. He doesn't care about saving this marriage, and with a husband like this, why should you?

Are you going to IC yourself? I can't recall. I think it might help you get through the anxiety and stress, and give you a reason to get out of the house, even if you have to take the baby with you.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> @adegirl2016 His comment that counselors aren't open when he's available is BS. There are counselors that have evening and weekend hours, specifically because a lot of people work during the day.
> 
> His answers to your questions are BS, too.
> 
> ...


No, I have not tried IC. I guess I'll try to find one. 

He acts like everything is fine. I can tell that even though he puts up with talking about it, he hates it. It makes him uncomfortable and he doesn't know what to say. He thinks that if I don't say it 1000 times, I must not mean it. At least that's how I feel. Although I'm sure he knows what I want, he just doesn't care.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Here we are. 3 1/2 months from D-Day. and I am NO WHERE near over it. This is still a daily struggle for me. WILL THIS EVER END??!??!?!


Once you truly separate from him it will start to end. Once you fall in love again it will be over competently. At that point you will want to thank this skank for doing you a favor. Not really but you will realize how much better off you are. Once you marry someone who has a career and is actually moving forward in life you will wonder how you ever even dated this guy. 

Mark my words.


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## Quality (Apr 26, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> Well... i won't even take a year. Probably just a few months. 2 -3 at most. Just enough for me to put a couple thousand aside. I already have a separate account with some money set aside. i think I am going to need to get this money out in cash.


Couple Tips:

When you go grocery shopping, buy yourself some prepaid Publix/Hills/Grocery or other misc debit/cash cards. They even sell Prepaid Amex cards.

Purchase and store remotely enough household supplies to last you a year wherever you end up.

Get yourself a cheap cubic fake diamond ring and show him what he bought you (like it was a big expensive ring). Then when you blindside him and he catches on that your spending was ridiculous the last year, you have something to claim to him as an item all that cash went towards.

Insist on a new wardrobe, milk his guilt. Purchase clothes you can return for cash later.

Use a nanny cam to record him getting stoned while babysitting your child. If he makes a stink about money you'll have a little trump card to play on him too. PLUS - this isn't just an immediate exit plan. After you leave and you still share custody with him to some degree who knows what kind of parent he'll continue to be and you may need to protect your child from him or the people around him some day far down the road. Start building that "just in case" case now while the "evidence" of his irresponsibility is available to you. Chances are you won't need it ~~ ever, but you never know. 

BTW, his threat that if you divorce him he may leave and disappear from you and your child would probably be the best thing for you and your child in the long run. He probably doesn't mean it even though it's consistent with being a serial cheater. However, you can't negotiate your integrity with a terrorist willing to abandon his wife and kid(s) if he doesn't get his way. Presuming you want him to stay around for your child's sake your best strategy is probably begging him to actually leave, never come back and telling him you'll be seeking full 100% custody ~~ he's more likely to follow through being a dad if you make him fight for it and into something he "won" in this whole process. In addition, it will define his battle into more about winning custody (something you want him to have anyway) versus manipulating and controlling you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It's over and done with as far as he's concerned and he just wants you to stop talking about it and move on. Typical cheater thinking. 

You'll never get the truth so it would be better to focus your energy on planning your life without him. It will make you feel more positive.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I realize there is no real point in asking him questions.


I think I do it to pick at him. Because I know he is going to act like a typical cheater. I have read so many posts here, so I have learned a ton. It's like I put him to the test to reassure myself of why I have chosen to leave. He fails the damn test every time. 

Just now -
Me - So why haven't you read the book? It's been over a week since I last asked you. 

Him - Oh sorry I have been busy I'll read it this weekend.

Me - Ok... thought R was your main priority here. 

Him - I thought we were having a good night. Why can't we just sit here and have a decent night? 



I hate this dude please get me outa here asap. Pray I run into some money!!!


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

He has to have everything his way. He says it was a 'good night.' Good for whom? Him, of course.

I think you should follow the 180 instructions and detach emotionally from him. If you don't care what he does or says anymore, you won't be driven crazy by his lack of...well, everything.

He's a serial cheater who thinks he can talk you around until you are pacified again. At which point he'll be free to pick up where he left off with his fun on the side.

Here's a story about a serial cheater who was here on TAM for a bit:

He was a relentless cheater who nonetheless married a woman to have a family with. He never had any intention of staying faithful. After many years of constant cheating (it's a way of life, after all), he actually had some pangs of conscience and decided to confess to his wife, which he did - years and years of constant cheating; so many OW's he couldn't even count them.

She divorced him and he lost his family that he said he really loved. Through all this he said his wife was the love of his life.

And in a rare moment of honesty, when asked at the time how his wife reacted to his confession, he said:

"She had more courage than I ever thought she had. I had pulled the wool over her eyes for years and was convinced I could do it again once things died down after I confessed. She was smarter than I gave her credit for, though."

Your WH is assuming he can pull the wool over your eyes again and will restart his cheating activities as soon as things 'die down' at home. He's complacent and counting on your swallowing this latest transgression.

Please do the 180 and stay resolved to D him. You are young and have your whole life ahead of you. Please don't waste any more of your fabulous, valuable life with a man who simply doesn't value you.

He's a manchild who needs help, but you're not obliged to save him. Save yourself and your kids. You're the important ones.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Quality said:


> adegirl2016 said:
> 
> 
> > Well... i won't even take a year. Probably just a few months. 2 -3 at most. Just enough for me to put a couple thousand aside. I already have a separate account with some money set aside. i think I am going to need to get this money out in cash.
> ...


I agree with you about him "disappearing". I really wouldn't want him to have any custody of the kids bc of his weed smoking. Not that I think weed is this terrible thing but he isn't smart about it at all. For example, it's illegal here and he went and picked up our son from daycare with it in his car. Now what if he had gotten pulled over? He doesn't think about **** like that. He can't be trusted with the kids to me. Plus, the baby is 2 months old. 

The gift card idea is great too!!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

alte Dame said:


> He has to have everything his way. He says it was a 'good night.' Good for whom? Him, of course.
> 
> I think you should follow the 180 instructions and detach emotionally from him. If you don't care what he does or says anymore, you won't be driven crazy by his lack of...well, everything.
> 
> ...


It pisses me off to think that he may think he's going to do this again. That's exactly why it's so hard to wait!!!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

So my husband just got offered his dream job. He will no longer be working in restaurants. It's his first big-boy office job. 8-5 M-F. 


My thoughts - 

Could him getting a grown up job possibly put him in a position where he could "grow up" emotionally?

His pay will be significantly less. Taking about 300 dollars a month from the child support he would have to pay me. That will put a huge dent in my ability to support myself.


IDK I guess this has just thrown me a curveball. 
HOW the heck am I going to pay everything myself? Should i just wait even longer, until I find a better paying job? I have a decent income now, it's just not enough. UGH!!!


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> So my husband just got offered his dream job. He will no longer be working in restaurants. It's his first big-boy office job. 8-5 M-F.
> 
> 
> My thoughts -
> ...


It's possible. I've known people who have "grown up" a lot after getting out of the restaurant industry, myself included (although, for me, it may have also been typical maturation in one's twenties). I've also known a lot of people who haven't. It really depends on the individual.

His pay may be significantly less right now, but his potential of making more/future earning potential and the possibility of advancing in an actual "career" field are much better than in restaurants.

But I don't know that an increase in his income later will affect CS payments? I don't know anything about this area of legality.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> So my husband just got offered his dream job. He will no longer be working in restaurants. It's his first big-boy office job. 8-5 M-F.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Hon you've got me in dad mode here. Stop worrying about viewing your dolt H as an ATM. That's about as horrid as it gets. You say you hate him but you want his $$$$. There's a word for that.

Get some clarity and take responsibility for yourself. If you don't have enough money to pay your bills, negotiate with the lenders and hit up relatives or friends. Be resourceful.

As it is you are lowering yourself wasaaaay too much here.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Don't mean to sound that way. But I have to make sure I can provide for my kids. My income alone doesn't even cover the mortgage and daycare costs. That is why I am so concerned.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I guess I am too prideful to ask for help outside of my husband. I'm sure my dad can help some but not much. I don't know anyone else who could help.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Adegirl
Don't expect him to miraculously become an adult. This is a small petulant child that is hanging in out of fear of losing his home and children. He fears his father's judgement. He fears judgement of others.

He is not husband material. As the father of two children your age, my first instinct is to tell you to get away from him. My second instinct should be addressed with your father. Ask for a loan to cover that tuition bill. Once secured, kick your husband to the curb. He gives every indication of lying low until your mood improves and he can go back to doing just what he pleases.

Again, he is extremely untrustworthy, and he is screamingly immature. Those qualities make it more than likely that he will cheat again. You need that like a hole in the head. There are good MEN out there, stop wasting your life on a LITTLE BOY.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I'm telling you he is an idiot! 

So i thought he was done smoking.

And then he just now says - holy crap, I am going to have to take a drug test and I took a small hit the other night.

So now he has this amazing career opportunity, to help him get out of restaurants, and now may fail the damn drug test. 

WTF.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I'm telling you he is an idiot!
> 
> So i thought he was done smoking.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry, but if ever you needed a reality check on his maturity, here it is.

It never even occurred to him until he thought about the urinalysis.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I mean you are absolutely right I'm sure. I am just so concerned with the financials. I am in the banking industry, so it's just my nature to obsess with numbers. Also, I can't ruin my credit.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

He has recently asked for my "permission" to smoke and I just said "one - you blamed part of your affair on clouded judgement from smoking and two - you want a career job, you may fail a drug test if you smoke, I don't think it's a good idea" 

And then he does. 
Behind my back.
Only tells me bc he may fail this test. 


So of course I got frustrated and he said "see, I shouldn't have even told you"

Wow. Yep. That's an example of how trust goes in our relationship. His motto - what you don't know can't hurt you.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> He has recently asked for my "permission" to smoke and I just said "one - you blamed part of your affair on clouded judgement from smoking and two - you want a career job, you may fail a drug test if you smoke, I don't think it's a good idea"
> 
> And then he does.
> Behind my back.
> ...


Adegirl, your husband is an idiot. I can't wait to see you get away from him.

I agree with @Taxman. Talk to your dad, if he doesn't already know everything, tell him everything, and ask for his help. Maybe he can help formulate a plan, or a loan to finish school, or something. Your dad loves you. He will help you.

My dad never liked my XH, and didn't think that I should marry him... but he never told me, until I was going through the divorce. But one of the biggest fears my dad had was that my XH was going to take me across the country, ruin me financially, and I would be so far away that my dad wouldn't be able to be there to help me out. Luckily, that didn't happen. Part of me wishes that I would have known, because maybe I would have gone to my dad for help to get out earlier, or maybe I never would have married XH in the first place. My point is, if your dad thinks you're in a bad situation, he;ll want to do whatever he can to help you get out of it. There's no shame in asking for help.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

One, I am a marijuana smoker, I am also a partner in a firm of accountants. Two, I am a responsible smoker. I do it ONLY in my home, with my wife, and will NEVER get behind the wheel, or for that matter even surf the net while stoned. If I were subjected to random drug tests for any reason, I would stop. I like it, but I like my livelihood and caring for my loved ones even more. I live in Canada, and we are legalizing marijuana for recreational use on April 20 (according to rumour). Right now, the criminal activity surrounding this is dying off. I go to one of nearly 30 "dispensaries" near my office. By this time next year, there will be no criminality in Canada associated with marijuana. It is soon to be a booming business and a tax windfall for our government.

Your husband seems to lack the ability to think ahead and anticipate any possible problems. He did this with infidelity and he is doing it with pot. 

Whether or not he keeps this job, get yourself ready and get out. He can only drag you down.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Taxman said:


> One, I am a marijuana smoker, I am also a partner in a firm of accountants. Two, I am a responsible smoker. I do it ONLY in my home, with my wife, and will NEVER get behind the wheel, or for that matter even surf the net while stoned. If I were subjected to random drug tests for any reason, I would stop. I like it, but I like my livelihood and caring for my loved ones even more. I live in Canada, and we are legalizing marijuana for recreational use on April 20 (according to rumour). Right now, the criminal activity surrounding this is dying off. I go to one of nearly 30 "dispensaries" near my office. By this time next year, there will be no criminality in Canada associated with marijuana. It is soon to be a booming business and a tax windfall for our government.
> 
> Your husband seems to lack the ability to think ahead and anticipate any possible problems. He did this with infidelity and he is doing it with pot.
> 
> Whether or not he keeps this job, get yourself ready and get out. He can only drag you down.


I have no problem with use as long as you are responsible, as you are.
My husband spent tons of money on it. $60-100 a week, which we do NOT have. 
He would pick it up from whoever and then pick up our kid from daycare. It's illegal here, so if he were to get pulled over, especially with our kid in the car, it could be a mess.
In this case, he smoked and then drove.
He does have 3 DUI's. Not sure if I've mentioned that- it was all from alchohol. And it has been a few years.

Like you said - it's the fact that he can't think ahead. There is no concern for others. No empathy. He only cares about himself and what he wants at that particular time.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> adegirl2016 said:
> 
> 
> > He has recently asked for my "permission" to smoke and I just said "one - you blamed part of your affair on clouded judgement from smoking and two - you want a career job, you may fail a drug test if you smoke, I don't think it's a good idea"
> ...


Yeah but my dad is the one who told me to get financially stable first. So I feel like as much as he wants to see me do well, he may be unable to help me. He even mentioned he had some big expenses coming up. I am the only married kid, so he is still fully supporting everyone else. I just hate to feel like a burden to someone. I guess I just need to chill out and re visit the financial situation after graduation, like I intended to do anyway. It's difficult though bc being here with him is just depressing me.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

You cannot get financially stable with an albatross around your neck. I'm a financial professional, and your husband will find a way, conscious or not to sabotage you. (I have seen this time and time again; good solid intelligent women married to Peter Pan, and every time they get ahead, their little boy husbands manage to get them into a jackpot of some sort, nullifying their progress).You are in banking, so you know that your husband is a "sunk cost". He will never become the asset you invested in. Any good advisor would tell you to cut your losses at this point. Treat him like a loan gone bad, there is no way of recovery, so WRITE HIM OFF.

Your finishing your degree and moving up the scale will only serve to increase his irresponsibility. If I were your father, and aware of the situation, I would spare no expense to get you and my grandchildren away from him. Hell, the man has even f**ked around on you, and as a father, my visceral reaction would be to put your husband on the ground and kick him until his testes come out his mouth. 

Talk to your dad, you need to get out now.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Taxman said:


> You cannot get financially stable with an albatross around your neck. I'm a financial professional, and your husband will find a way, conscious or not to sabotage you. (I have seen this time and time again; good solid intelligent women married to Peter Pan, and every time they get ahead, their little boy husbands manage to get them into a jackpot of some sort, nullifying their progress).You are in banking, so you know that your husband is a "sunk cost". He will never become the asset you invested in. Any good advisor would tell you to cut your losses at this point. Treat him like a loan gone bad, there is no way of recovery, so WRITE HIM OFF.
> 
> Your finishing your degree and moving up the scale will only serve to increase his irresponsibility. If I were your father, and aware of the situation, I would spare no expense to get you and my grandchildren away from him. Hell, the man has even f**ked around on you, and as a father, my visceral reaction would be to put your husband on the ground and kick him until his testes come out his mouth.
> 
> Talk to your dad, you need to get out now.


You described the past 3-4 months perfectly. We ran into about 10k in January. Then he quit his job. So that 10k is GONE. 

Last time we had that kind of money was when he had his dui- guess where all that money went?

Funny that you said consciously or not. Bc maybe he didn't plan for it to go down this way but it did. 

Another thing I've noticed is that he cheats or makes big mistakes right before something big happens. So I feel trapped. 

I found out about his EA a few days before we closed on our first home. One we had built. So it felt impossible to back out of. Just like this time he cheated while I was super pregnant, 
Weird. 

I swear I don't think my dad will help me. He would a little, but not what I need.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> You described the past 3-4 months perfectly. We ran into about 10k in January. Then he quit his job. So that 10k is GONE.
> 
> Last time we had that kind of money was when he had his dui- guess where all that money went?
> 
> ...


Methinks you need to start hiding money.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

I am sorry my dear, but you underestimate fathers. I could not live with myself if my daughter were in your position. You and your children would be out of that situation immediately if not sooner. Your husband would be far far away. Your husband would meet a good number of my friends, some of whom are police officers.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@adegirl2016, 

I agree with the other posters--at least ASK your father because the worst he can say is "No" and you'd be no further behind than you are now. But he MAY able to help or if not, may be able to help some! It's worth asking, and be completely honest with him. Trust me, I'm a mom of seven kids, and I'm not rich--but if one of my kids needed to get away from an abusive spouse, I would move heaven and earth to help them get out!!

Second, I want to VERY STRONGLY encourage you to arrange your future so that you are not dependent on your STBXH. In my own instance, I married a guy in the restaurant industry, and he had several affairs with his employees (think waitresses, hostesses, bartenders, asst. managers). He made about three times what I made, but together we did quite well. We had a large home with an inground pool and made a lot of money, and he left everything to go live with his Wistress and her four kids in another state. Needless to say, we needed his income in order to pay the mortgage, not to mention bills and the kids' private school! So as much as I hated to do it, we sold the house in the divorce and I used my portion of equity to get a little townhouse I could afford. We made arrangements with the private school to pay X amount in cash, and Y amount in volunteering, and Z amount in emergency financial aid...and then the next school year we just applied using my income (and obviously qualified). 

I literally never had any extra money for savings and whatnot, but I was able to 100% support myself and the kids with my own earnings. Anything we got from STBXH for child support, I used toward paying for school functions and sports the first year, and by the time child support ran out, I honestly didn't need it at all. Each child got to go to college through their associate's degree and then had enough of a record to get scholarships. 

So get to a place of financial independence. We had to cut back our lifestyle from "4000sqft home" to townhouse... from new 2 year old car every year to keeping the car and maintaining it. But we were FREE of his attempted shenanigans and it was well worth it!


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @adegirl2016,
> 
> I agree with the other posters--at least ASK your father because the worst he can say is "No" and you'd be no further behind than you are now. But he MAY able to help or if not, may be able to help some! It's worth asking, and be completely honest with him. Trust me, I'm a mom of seven kids, and I'm not rich--but if one of my kids needed to get away from an abusive spouse, I would move heaven and earth to help them get out!!
> 
> ...


Well see... my attorney told me that there are "plenty of places in our community where you could rent for much less than your mortgage".
But, my dad said I should keep the home so that the kids have somewhere stable to live. I guess If he wants me to keep it, then he will end up helping.

So option 1 is to stay in the home. Rely on child support. live paycheck to paycheck.
option 2 is to sell... I could use the equity to pay my rent somewhere for a year (or something along those lines). My older child will be in kindergarten in a year, so that will cut childcare costs down a TON.
I don't think we have very much equity though, since the home is only 2 years old... See... this is stressful :/


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Affaircare said:


> @adegirl2016,
> So get to a place of financial independence. We had to cut back our lifestyle from "4000sqft home" to townhouse... from new 2 year old car every year to keeping the car and maintaining it. But we were FREE of his attempted shenanigans and it was well worth it!


THIS-Read, re-read and digest.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Selling makes more sense as you will not be tethered to him. You can get a rental, use the equity converted to cash to float you until your degree is conferred and you can move up the ladder at work. Your dad is wrong about the house being stable. The kids require a stable parent, not Peter Pan. Peter Pan is fun, but reality often gets in the way of fun. Kids need a RESPONSIBLE ADULT who will make the hard decisions.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

@adegirl2016 sit down and do a budget and live within your means. I drive a 17 year old car because it suits my needs. I have $$$$ for retirement but also have current and future college expenses (to the tune of over 650k) so it doesn't make sense for me to waste money. I am happy and content and have what I need. You have a kid and a job - do you really need anything else right now?

Kids need love not a house


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

adegirl2016 said:


> Well see... my attorney told me that there are "plenty of places in our community where you could rent for much less than your mortgage".
> But, my dad said I should keep the home so that the kids have somewhere stable to live. I guess If he wants me to keep it, then he will end up helping.
> 
> So option 1 is to stay in the home. Rely on child support. live paycheck to paycheck.
> ...


I have to disagree with your dad on the house. YOU provide stability for your kids; the house doesn't do that. You'll be in a much better position renting something smaller in the short term, and when your income increases after you finish school, you'll be able to get a mortgage for a home that belongs to just you and your kids, and you can make a life there.

I don't think staying in a house you can't afford that is full of memories of your marriage is good for you emotionally.

Do you think your father's help would be conditional on you making the choices he wants for you?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Thanks guys. I feel a little better now about considering all of my options. I still need to wait until the end of May/beginning of June. It's just hard being here. He acts like everything is all okay and it's not. It drives me nuts.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Rejection of reality, pretending nothing is wrong so he can feel better and not have to deal with what he has done and look into a mirror at himself. I would say pretend and set your plans into action as well. Do not give a clue into your thoughts nor your plans as he will manipulate you any way he can. Think about this, you leaving him possibly the first time for his cheating was not enough for him to change, why would he do so now. If he did work on himself to better himself, I would say stick it out because he would have been a newer better version of the type of man you can live with. Close to losing you the first time was not enough and either to him you're not worth the effort or he thinks little about you to change and is focus on himself.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Update 

So he's asked me to see a new therapist, to my surprise. We only went to the other twice. 

So I agreed. I like her bc she wanted to see us together, but will also work with us individually. I think IC is important for us right now. I still have plans to leave, but also wonder if the counseling could work...

So she had us start at the very beginning of our relationship and give her the full story. We ran out of time for full advice, but she did say that it sounds like we have never gotten the chance to have a real relationship (got pregnant fast, work our asses off, family has lived with us, friends have lived with us, etc) so I assume she's going to go that route. She said she isn't surprised of the affair after hearing about how our relationship started. She asked us why we got married and both of our replies were "bc it seemed right at the time".

The thing is... that's cool if they or she wants to blame our bad relationship on the affair. Of course people in bad relationships will have affairs. But, I feel that I have relentlessly tried to have a good relationship. I have been telling him for years something is wrong, I have asked him several times to go to counseling with me, I have made myself sexually available and worked hard to maintain my looks for him, I have worked my butt off at work and school. I have worked hard to be a great mom. I have been giving 100 percent for years while he has literally given me NOTHING! So whose fault is it for the bad relationship? I have tried. 

Blah. Just venting. I do not think counseling is going to work. I can't stop imagining him with someone else either. It drives me crazy. Will the images stop? I can't live this way.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Oops meant to say "that's cool if they want to blame the affair on our bad relations ship" 

Phone is being weird about editing my post


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## Youngwife1000 (Mar 26, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> Sorry guys - I have never posted here before. I will break it down some more! It's all so hard to describe. The counselor asked me if I had any more questions, or if there was anything else I wanted to know about it. But I said no. This is all so hard to deal with given that the baby will be here any day.
> 
> The scary thing is that if I would not have gone through his watch, I would have never known. I can't believe all of that can go down in a matter of 10 minutes.


2 weeks ago, I discovered my husband had been cheating from a swinging site, 7 meets in total all oral sex. I made him do a polygraph to see if any sex took place. He passed all my questions. However it still hurts like hell even oral sex. It's started just after I had his baby. I have better days now, today was an ok day, but yesterday I was plagued by images and the hurt comes back. We have yet to get a counsellor but it's definitely on our must list asap. I have no idea what the future will hold, but at the moment I'm just living day to day. I hope you find a peaceful place before you baby's birth. Xx


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Adegirl, someone has to break this to you but your new "counselor" is full a pahooey. The reason your relationship/marriage is bad is because your H is in it. 

He isn't any good as a man/husband/father etc. He is not relationship or marriage material and there for your marriage sucks. 

One person can not make a good marriage no matter how good that person is. It takes two good, decent, responsible, mature, committed people of good character to make a good marriage and stable family.

He isn't any of that so there for your marriage sucks. It has always sucked and always will suck as long as he is in it. 

I am 53 years old and have known numerous people like him over the years. They never really do change. They are always bottom feeders. Always marginally performing and always have lots of problems due to their own incompetence and lack of forethought, maturity and responsibility. The best of them just get by without either dying young or going to prison. 

They never really grow out of it or launch, they just get older and lazier and so there for they don't get out as much and cause as many problems. 

And while they may not screw around as much when they get older, it's not really because their character has developed and improved. It's because they get old and fat and wrinkled and their hair and their teeth fallout and they smell bad and so no one wants to do them. 

While pot is technically not "addictive" in the literal sense like alcohol, heroin, cocaine etc, it does make people perfectly happy to sit and do nothing and to accept whatever fate befalls them and their irresponsible ways. 

When someone starts abusing drugs and alcohol, their brain and their character and their persona stop developing and they are developmentally arrested at the stage they start abusing chemicals. 

So lets say he started drinking and lighting up at 15. That means his development and responsibility and maturity are roughly that of a 15 year old. 

That means he is able to perform various tasks under direction and with supervision, but he is unable to think towards the future, make detailed plans or grasp how his current actions will have future ramifications or consequences. 

He will also have virtually NO IMPULSE CONTROL. 

He may cry and beg forgiveness when he is caught being naughty. And he may promise the world that he will never do it again. But the next time some chick dangles some poontang in front of him, he will be off to the races again without a moment's thought. 

He brain is completely clouded and impinged by chemicals. He is incapable of rational thought, impulse control, future planning, responsibility or connecting his actions with the consequences of those actions. 

He is simply a dud and a bad apple and he will not turn into a prince. He is not husband or father material and he will never be a mature, caring, responsible adult. 

To think otherwise is simply believing in magic pixie dust and is irresponsible thinking on your part.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So that leaves you with the question of what to do now. 

The long range plan here is that you will have to become the sane, sober, mature, responsible adult and take care of yourself and your children. Luckily God made children adaptable and resilient enough that one sane, sober, responsible parent is enough. 

Get him out of your and your kid's lives. The best way to do that is to simply let him go and do as he pleases and do not ask anything from him. it will be a matter of weeks or a number of months before he meets some gal that is hornier than you and gives better BJs than you and she won't bug him about being responsible or cramp his style. When that happens, let him go be with her. 

He will gladly ignore and neglect his children at that point, so let him go and don't try to broker a relationship between them Let him fade out. 

At some point allow him to waive his parental rights and sign away his parental rights. He isn't really a parent and he and his drugs and alcohol and womanizing are a risk to their well-being so let him fade away from their lives. 

Once your kids are grown adults, if they want to look him up in his little one-room apartment with the roaches and empty whiskey bottles and full ashtrays everywhere, that is their prerogative. But don't do anything to try to encourage or foster a relationship with him now. 


Then do whatever it takes to finish your education and get a good steady, livable income. If that means selling the house and moving in with your parents or some other relative, do it. If it means going on welfair/ADC, do it. If it means living in single mother's shelter, do it. 

Do whatever you have to do, to keep your kids safe and fed while you become financially independent and able to provide for yourself and your children. 

Be the adult. Be the parent. Be the provider Be the sane, sober, responsible influence on their lives.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And finally, I agree with the other posters that say that your father is mistaken about the house. He is simply misinformed and is wrong about that. 

The house will be a financial burden to you and it will financially connect you to your STBX. Think of this like being connected by a rope around your neck, connected to a sinking ship.

Your long term goal here needs to be to disconnect yourself from any legal and financial connections to your STBX. This includes the house. 

houses do not provide stability and security to children. Sane, sober, responsible parents do. 

Anything that connects then with that nitwit you call your husband is what will destabilize and subject them to harm. Getting away from him and you being the stable force in their lives is what will provide them with security and stability. 

Get out from under the house and cut anything that yokes you to him legally and financially and that is what will provide stability and sanity.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> He has recently asked for my "permission" to smoke


Kind of like a kid asking permission from their Mom? "Please Mom can I smoke a bong?" Every women's dream. When are you going to dump this loser?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I agree with some of what you've said. But he did start a new "big boy" job, which he had to pass a drug test for. They also random test. It was his idea to see this lady. Is there any chance at him changing or probably not?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> I agree with some of what you've said. But he did start a new "big boy" job, which he had to pass a drug test for. They also random test. It was his idea to see this lady. Is there any chance at him changing or probably not?


when he works his big boy job for 15 years and gets good work reviews consistently and never drinks or smokes pot and never messes around with another women again, I will gladly admit to being wrong. 

The problem is a 30 year old man's character and persona are pretty set by the time he reaches that age. 

In otherwords he is who he is. What you are seeing is what he is. Believing that he will transform into something else is believing in magic. Kissing toads and turning them into princes is the stuff of fairy tales. 

Chumplady has a saying that is very applicable here - "Trust that he sucks."

But like I said, if he performs admirably for the next 15 years, I will gladly admit to being wrong. 

The question you need to ask yourself is, are you willing to risk your children's well being, your reproductive health (STDs), your financial future and your


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> when he works his big boy job for 15 years and gets good work reviews consistently and never drinks or smokes pot and never messes around with another women again, I will gladly admit to being wrong.
> 
> The problem is a 30 year old man's character and persona are pretty set by the time he reaches that age.
> 
> ...


dignity and peace of mind just to hear me admit to being wrong?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

No I get what you are saying. The counselor just made it seem like this was a good turning point for us to build our marriage. New job new life. I believe you. 30 is a little late to totally change your ways. He was 25 when we met so it's not like he was a little kid. Hell, I was the one who was 20 when I got pregnant and married but still managed to get my **** together. 
I believe you. I just need to hear it for a million times for some reason.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Temporary change is easy. Permanent change is much more difficult. 

Some people change. Most people do not. They aren't willing to do the hard work involved. It's up to you whether you're willing to invest any more time and energy and effort in him. But I can tell you from experience that R is a very hard road. Trust lost is extremely difficult to get back so if you decide to R you need to be prepared for what lies ahead.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I don't think I can make the effort for it to work. I know at some point, I am going to have to try (if I decide to stay) and I just don't see that happening. By the way, the other night, I was complaining about how I felt to him. Telling him I still felt sad and down about it and that I felt like there is more he could be doing and that I am just generally upset. 
He was saying things like "if you are going to be like this forever, it's not going to work. And honestly if it's this upsetting to you, then leave. I don't want you to but really if it's this upsetting and you want to leave then do it"

Idk if I was a WS I would still be bending over backwards. I would just be doing everything different.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Yep. Get over it. He has.

Please remember the person he is showing you. That is who he is. Never forget it.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Right. Well he thinks that telling me he loves me everyday and kissing me goodnight is doing the right thing. He did that right before he had sex with someone else too. I remember feeling nauseated that evening (of the affair) and he texted me back (he was at work) saying wow my boss says baby must be coming his wife his a nurse. I can't wait I love you so much" 

And then literally 30 min later had sex with someone else.

I really can't comprehend it and apparently he can't either. 

I appreciate y'all listening to my venting. He doesn't.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> I don't think I can make the effort for it to work. I know at some point, I am going to have to try (if I decide to stay) and I just don't see that happening. By the way, the other night, I was complaining about how I felt to him. Telling him I still felt sad and down about it and that I felt like there is more he could be doing and that I am just generally upset.
> He was saying things like "if you are going to be like this forever, it's not going to work. And honestly if it's this upsetting to you, then leave. I don't want you to but really if it's this upsetting and you want to leave then do it"
> 
> Idk if I was a WS I would still be bending over backwards. I would just be doing everything different.


Adegirl, when someone shows you who they are the first time, believe them.

He has shown you who he is and is still showing you who he is. Too often women who have got their **** together as you stay on with immature guys hoping they will grow up. 
Mine is over 50 and only started to grow up this last year because I was planning to leave and he knew it was not a threat but a promise.

If he starts his drinking and nonsense again, it is a deal breaker, I have made that very clear. 
Believe me you have to think whether you want to waste the good years of your life working on this, sometimes it really is not worth it, better to invest in someone who is worthy of you.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

adegirl2016 said:


> Right. Well he thinks that telling me he loves me everyday and kissing me goodnight is doing the right thing. He did that right before he had sex with someone else too. I remember feeling nauseated that evening (of the affair) and he texted me back (he was at work) saying wow my boss says baby must be coming his wife his a nurse. I can't wait I love you so much"
> 
> And then literally 30 min later had sex with someone else.
> 
> ...


Some things are scary simple. This is one of them. He compartmentalizes very well. To him, what happened with her has nothing to do with you or your marriage. What happens with you similarly has nothing to do with her. This is also why he thinks you should just "get over it". To him, what had nothing to do with you shouldn't bother you much, if at all.

He told you to go ahead and leave if you're "always going to be like this" because you being "like this" is a drag. He wants you to stay, get over it already, and go back to status quo.

Telling a wife you love her and kissing goodnight are pretty much the absolute bare minimum.

I can see why you doubt you have the ability to push through the first years of R. Unless he "gets it", reconciling would be you either rugsweeping or doin all the work yourself.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

MJJEAN said:


> Some things are scary simple. This is one of them. He compartmentalizes very well. To him, what happened with her has nothing to do with you or your marriage. What happens with you similarly has nothing to do with her. This is also why he thinks you should just "get over it". To him, what had nothing to do with you shouldn't bother you much, if at all.
> 
> He told you to go ahead and leave if you're "always going to be like this" because you being "like this" is a drag. He wants you to stay, get over it already, and go back to status quo.
> 
> ...


All of this, OP. He is refusing to take responsibility for his actions, and he is trying to convince you that this is your problem, not his.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> Some things are scary simple. This is one of them. He compartmentalizes very well. To him, what happened with her has nothing to do with you or your marriage. What happens with you similarly has nothing to do with her. This is also why he thinks you should just "get over it". To him, what had nothing to do with you shouldn't bother you much, if at all.
> 
> He told you to go ahead and leave if you're "always going to be like this" because you being "like this" is a drag. He wants you to stay, get over it already, and go back to status quo.
> 
> ...


Wow ... so I did some research on compartmentalizing. Sounds JUST like him. I have always told him it seems like he lives a "double life" and that he thinks anything is okay "as long as the other doesn't know".

One time, back when he was having that EA a few years ago, I said "So, what if I did this to you? How would you feel?" and he said "well, i don't go through your stuff, so how would I know? I wouldn't want to". 

WTF.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

It sounds doubtful that he's actually going to do the hard work necessary for a successful R. He wants this to be over and done with a reset back to the old marriage you had before you found out he cheated. But the old marriage is gone forever and apparently he's not willing to help build a new one in any meaningful way. 

Have a detailed plan in place for getting out. I think you'll need it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Cheaters excel at compartmentalizing. They really do feel that what their spouse doesn't know won't hurt them. And if you're hurt by their actions? Well, maybe you shouldn't have checked up on them. Or you should have turned a blind eye. Or something. Yeah.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

adegirl2016 said:


> He was saying things like "if you are going to be like this forever, it's not going to work. And honestly if it's this upsetting to you, then leave. I don't want you to but really if it's this upsetting and you want to leave then do it"


What a jerk!!! Next time he says that, slap him in the face and tell him to get the hell out. YOU should leave?!?!? HE should ****ing leave.

Man, this pisses me off.


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## stixx (Mar 20, 2017)

Hope1964 said:


> What a jerk!!! Next time he says that, slap him in the face. HE should ****ing leave.


Cursing and slapping her husband in the face may be @Hope1964 's way of dealing with conflict, violence and physical abuse is NEVER the answer.


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## shrah25 (Mar 22, 2017)

adegirl2016 said:


> Update
> 
> So he's asked me to see a new therapist, to my surprise. We only went to the other twice.
> 
> ...


Hi @adegirl2016

Firstly, can I just say how truly sorry I am for what you've had to go through. This level of infidelity is one of the hardest things to go through in life and I truly admire your strength and courage throughout this ordeal.

From a counselling perspective, it all depends on the type of counsellor you go to. There are a lot of poor options out there who simply just ask basic questions and then allow the other client to vent. This might be ok from time to time but at the end of the day, you need strategies and a proven approach to help you deal with what you're going through and then ultimately get to a place where you can make a decision that feels right and you are peace with it. Otherwise, it just ends up as an expensive 'indulgence of pain' session

Let me give you a bit of an insight into the male mind. Guys need freedom - not just in a relationship but in general. They need to feel like they aren't constrained on any level. I'm not suggesting that means that every guy wants to go out and sleep around whilst he is in a relationship, but it's the feeling that he's not restricted in any way. Ironically, when they have that freedom, they tend to be a lot more involved and attentive in the relationship. Now I know lots of women who have said that they've given their partners all the freedom in the world but sometimes regardless of this, the male might still feel constrained for other reasons. 


Now, with this all in mind, rejection is also a massive challenge for men. This is the reason why a lot of men, when they are with their friends, like to tell a lot of stories about women they've been with etc. This makes them feel worthy. Sounds a little silly but I can't begin to tell you how many men i've worked with that have these challenges.

He's obviously coming back and acting like he's completely committed because the thought of being alone and rejected by you and the family will kill him at the deepest level. Yet, there is probably a part of him that has conflicting values and hence he goes out and does these silly things...For a guy, when a woman is completely vulnerable and is prepared to express herself to him, it can be a huge temptation and one that a lot of guys succumb to.

Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule and so it's your job to become aware of some of these typical male themes, recognise that you are a high value woman and then set your standards in a way that are in alignment with how you wish to be treated. 

I know it seems like i'm painting a bad picture of men. Trust me, i'm not. I could go on and on about patterns in females as well but it's really important to live as a high value woman and then move forward based on that.

I understand heartbreak is not easy. Trust me, i've had my fair share of it. But in any challenge, there is always a learning - albeit in a very difficult way. 

Healing yourself and reclaiming the best parts of you is the most important part of your journey. Make sure you focus on that first because otherwise, all of the wounds and insecurities that you hold onto will simply be projected continuously and the 'images' that you refer to will continue to pop up. 

You absolutely can heal yourself in this situation and that, in my opinion, must be the priority. The temptation will always be to try and resurrect what you have in the marriage and whilst that is important, as long as you haven't healed yourself, then the marriage will always continue to have these wounds presenting themselves. 

Without knowing the intricacies and day to day behaviours of the two of you, it's very difficult for me to say whether the marriage can be saved but one thing I will say is that, I have seen couples with more extreme circumstances find a way to heal their wounds so I definitely believe it's possible - but it requires genuine commitment from both parties and an ability to truly forgive from your heart and recognition that the poor behaviours are just a reflection of insecurities and wounds being acted out. 

Hope all that makes sense.

Any questions, please let me know

Thanks


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

UPDATE:::

Message from his old coworker:

I worked with both of them, "removed name", was the one who begged her, in front of multiple associates, and we were the ones to report it to higher management, when it first started. With the rumors going around, it never stopped him. This went on for months. He even tried to get with her TWIN SISTER first, admitted to fantasies he had with many customers, and harassed some of the female employees. He would get a rag and slap female employees behinds with it, he would make comments about busty girls and how their behinds looked in leggings. Constantly acting like a high school boy when good looking girls would come around, the inappropriate jokes were only the start. Why are you solely blaming her? How do you know he didn't use his manager authority to try to pressure this young girl? What you have is what he states about her, whereas you were not at work with all of us to see the way he talked to her and looked at her, like he was hungry for her. He would touch her in inappropriate places daily. He must have thought he was slick but we all saw what he did.




Kicking him out tonight.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Good choice.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

I.am.livid. 

He is such an embarrassment. 

When I confronted him, he said none of this was true. I told him not to come home and he hung up on me.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

Good for you Adegirl. 

He was never remorseful Kissing you and telling you he loved you were bare min. When he said you should leave? That was when I would say IM DONE. 

Good for you FINALLY being done! Keep us update. Rooting for you. Lace those ***** boots up good and tight, you got some walking to do.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Be prepared in case he does come home (as he likely will because he expects to talk you around again).


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Given his level of maturity, are you actually surprised by this?



adegirl2016 said:


> UPDATE:::
> 
> Message from his old coworker:
> 
> ...


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> Given his level of maturity, are you actually surprised by this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




No it's not surprising. Just makes me angry again.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

It's one thing to have an affair. 

It's another to OPENLY scout out girls in front of everyone. What a pig


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

So, what will you do now?


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

He's out tonight. I told him not to come home. I can't tell you what's to come of that - bc idk if he is going to try or not. Will update


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

How was last night adegirl. 

Hope you are doing relatively okay.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@adegirl What happened last night? Did he try to come home? How are you doing?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> He's out tonight. I told him not to come home. I can't tell you what's to come of that - bc *idk if he is going to try or not.* Will update


I do.

He's not.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Simple solution. Just completely rag on him nonstop if he does come back. Start argument after argument after argument. He obviously can't handle that and leave. He's just gotten no ability to deal with anyone else.

He told you if you're gonna be like this it won't work out. So be like this on steroids.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

TheTruthHurts said:


> Simple solution. Just completely rag on him nonstop if he does come back. Start argument after argument after argument. He obviously can't handle that and leave. He's just gotten no ability to deal with anyone else.
> 
> He told you if you're gonna be like this it won't work out. So be like this on steroids.
> 
> ...


Not the healthiest solution, but it would probably work.

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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

update -

I know it has been a few months. So much has changed. For one, I did graduate from college!! Woop woop!!

So shortly after my last post, my husband made some changes. He asked me to attend church with him and he started reading his bible daily. Now, this man used to say God didn't exist and blahblahblah. Well, to see this change in him was (and has been) amazing. So, I felt that maybe our marriage had some hope. The thing you find out though, is that although you are a christian, that does not mean you have a perfect marriage suddenly. 

So, my husband has been working on himself, personally, but not towards our marriage. As a result of my extreme anxiety and depression over everything, I started experiencing intense panic attacks. I have NEVER had panic attacks before. It was so scary. I actually missed a week of work because I went to the ER so much (not knowing at the time what was wrong). Each time I went, my heart was pounding in the 150s (while sitting), my blood pressure sky-rocketted, and I was shaking from the chills, and having hot flashes. My chest hurt. It was TERRIBLE. It took over a week or so for doctors to finally say I was, in fact, having back to back panic attacks. The panic lasted a week and took a few more weeks to fully get over. I am just now feeling like myself again. So, here I am, mad that I let myself get THIS worked up over this situation. 

I see an IC now. She is helping me with the panic attacks and plans to also help me with this affair. She made it clear that I do still have a choice in all of this. 

My husband is still selfish in bed. I do not feel super connected with him. I do not know if I will ever feel happy with our relationship. Although maybe part of this is because I am so angry still. I still hold a ton of resentment. I wish I wouldn't have allowed him to be at the birth. 

I cannot stop imaging him with her while we are having sex. I can't stand it. 

Well - there it is. Almost 8 months later and I still do not feel all that great.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's because you let him stay. Selfish in bed? THAT IS WHO HE IS. Selfish. You are there to make HIM happy.

There is so much better out there, girl.

btw, I've had panic attacks lately. They're horrendous. They're all consuming. And there's nothing you can do while you're in the middle of it. 

Your panic attacks are your soul telling you that this is a mistake.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> update -
> 
> I know it has been a few months. So much has changed. For one, I did graduate from college!! Woop woop!!
> 
> ...


Sorry you are in this place, i know how difficult it was after giving birth and having to deal with his cheating, (have been in that place) one has a tendancy to rug sweep and not take action because of tiredness, hormones, lack of support, etc. Meanwhile, he is off the hook, no consequences so goes back to being who he always was. just because someone reads the bible does not make them better, in fact it could be just a way for him to cover up his sin and who he really is without doing any work to change.

YOu work on yourself with your IC, tell your WH you have not decided on whether you want to stay in the marriage or not. Put him on notice that you still feel resentful and he needs to do something to make up for what he has done. 
He has to do all the work to get the marriage back on track.
If you do not do this now believe me it will come back to haunt you (this has happened to me) when the kids are older and you are assessing your marriage.
How are you financially, what are the laws like in your state? You may actually get to a place where you do not want to be with your H anymore, especially if he is still selfish.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

That is what I am afraid of - that these changes in himself are not real or temporary. 

He has also stayed away from drugs, he has been helping (for the most part)around the house and with the kids. But the intimacy that we should we sharing is still gone. Sex still feels like a scene from porn and not satisfying to me at all. When I bring these things up to him, he acts as if he doesn't know what I am talking about. Since the deep intimacy I am talking about is hard to describe, I feel that I can't get my point across. Could he really not understanding what I am needing? I have NEVER felt unsatisfied with my sex life in the past (with others).

I think the IC is going to be good for me.

Financial situation actually looks good. Our home is pending sale and we will pocket a large amount of cash from this. We have not found another house yet and will live at a family members home (who is out of town) until we find one. This could take a month or two.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Way to push it through to graduation a very big congrats to you!!!


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

R is a very hard road -- much harder than divorce (I did both). 

Getting beyond infidelity can take many years -- there's nothing quick or easy about it. Trust can be very difficult to get back even when your spouse does everything he should. Some people recover more quickly than others. Some never do recover. 

You're very early in the process. Time will tell whether his changes are real or not. I think IC is an excellent idea.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The first thing you need to change is to tell him you won't be having sex with him anymore unless it includes foreplay for YOU. And then the next time he tries to push himself on you, you'll have to push him off and say 'I TOLD you that I'm not doing this anymore. If you don't care if I enjoy it, then I have no reason to have sex with you.'


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> So shortly after my last post, my husband made some changes. He asked me to attend church with him and he started reading his bible daily. Now, this man used to say God didn't exist and blahblahblah. Well, to see this change in him was (and has been) amazing. So, I felt that maybe our marriage had some hope. The thing you find out though, is that although you are a christian, that does not mean you have a perfect marriage suddenly.


Oh good lord. Reading his Bible daily? Talk about a dog and pony show. Does he sell snake oil from a covered wagon, too? He sounds like all the other losers who suddenly 'find God' in jail.

Until they're released.

Well, he worked every other angle at trying to avoid divorce and failed miserably at it (because he's a loser) so I guess this God thing was his 11th hour Hail Mary attempt at not losing you - his mommy. That what serial cheaters need - they need their 'secret' life groping women and acting like hormonal teenage ass-wipes who don't know how to keep their zipper up, but they ALSO need their mommy/cook/laundress/childcare provider/housekeeper to take care of their pitiful asses when they're not out chasing down strange.

It's win/win - for HIM.



> As a result of my extreme anxiety and depression over everything, I started experiencing intense panic attacks. I have NEVER had panic attacks before. It was so scary. I actually missed a week of work because I went to the ER so much (not knowing at the time what was wrong). Each time I went, my heart was pounding in the 150s (while sitting), my blood pressure sky-rocketted, and I was shaking from the chills, and having hot flashes. My chest hurt. It was TERRIBLE. It took over a week or so for doctors to finally say I was, in fact, having back to back panic attacks. The panic lasted a week and took a few more weeks to fully get over. I am just now feeling like myself again. So, here I am, mad that I let myself get THIS worked up over this situation.


That's because you had a good plan to finally rid yourself of this POS then unwisely decided to change your mind when the big phony 'found God.' Your body is trying to TELL you something that you refuse to acknowledge - that you should left.

What you fail to face is that your husband is a *serial cheater*. From your first post saying that he claimed she was the one hitting on him, I knew it was a lie. And I also knew he's gotten away with a lot of crap you* STILL *don't know about. It would be incredibly naive to think you actually caught him the ONLY times he cheated. You haven't even come _close_. You had to learn the truth of his REAL behavior from co-workers about what a disgusting piece of work he really is when you're not around. Getting a 'big boy' job wouldn't change squat - he's STILL the same socially stunted, irresponsible nitwit he always was.



> My husband is still selfish in bed. I do not feel super connected with him. I do not know if I will ever feel happy with our relationship. Although maybe part of this is because I am so angry still. I still hold a ton of resentment. I wish I wouldn't have allowed him to be at the birth.


Jesus, I thought you were leaving this POS? Why in hell are you doing this to yourself? 

What is the payoff????


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

adegirl2016 said:


> That is what I am afraid of - that these changes in himself are not real or temporary.


Count on them being temporary.



> He has also stayed away from drugs, he has been helping (for the most part)around the house and with the kids.


Two things. Number #1, that's what you thought the LAST time until he had to admit that he still smokes because he was facing a drug test. And if you believe it was only that ONE time he slipped, I have some oceanfront property in Kansas I'd like to sell you.

Number #2 - you work outside the home as well. He's not 'helping' with the house and kids. He's simply doing his SHARE. If you *both* work, then you BOTH have an equal share of work to do at home as well. So if he thinks he's 'helping you' instead of doing what he SHOULD have been doing* all along*, then he's an even bigger idiot than I originally thought. Though I'm not surprised at all. He's a child.



> But the intimacy that we should we sharing is still gone. Sex still feels like a scene from porn and not satisfying to me at all. When I bring these things up to him, he acts as if he doesn't know what I am talking about. Since the deep intimacy I am talking about is hard to describe, I feel that I can't get my point across. Could he really not understanding what I am needing? I have NEVER felt unsatisfied with my sex life in the past (with others).


That's because he's a selfish child. It's all about him. 

Always has been, always will be.



> Financial situation actually looks good. Our home is pending sale and we will pocket a large amount of cash from this. We have not found another house yet and will live at a family members home (who is out of town) until we find one. This could take a month or two.


I wouldn't buy a damned goldfish with someone like this. Jeez, you're FINALLY getting out from under this home and you're going to open yet another vein and buy another house with him?????

Come on.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

Well that's what I am beginning to wonder. Was it a dog and pony show? We still go to church every Sunday. He is in a men's group and I have a group of women I meet with weekly. It is helpful. This situation has brought me closer to God- which makes everything more difficult in some ways. I do know that divorce is permitted after adultry. But still. Is that what he wants me to do? 

What if my husband has changed and I am just failing to see it? That's how he makes me feel. He says he has changed a ton. 


Selling the home puts us in a good spot. No financial ties besides the children and we will have money. 

The point was for us to look for another home but this could also be a great time to cut my losses.


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

I think you have bigger issues than his complete lack of understanding of what is arousing and desirable for a woman,but since this is an area of concern as well I have a suggestion.

First, I'm assuming he's a normal guy in the sense that he is turned on by graphic sex imagery, body parts, and acts. Let's face it - most men find that is all that it takes to get excited. I'll also assume he was weaned on on-line porn. Those two factors leave young men with no concept of a woman's interests, because online porn is an all-you-can-eat glutton fest of sexual imagery.

In the olden days, us guys had bad magazine porn - playboy didn't even show genitalia so I didn't know what a woman's anatomy looked like (it was all airbrushed into the shadows). As the magazine porn began to show more, we still had to use our imaginations. We also were given sexy narratives. and stories that we tried to flip past but we're at least exposed to.

My point is that older guys aren't built differently, but at least we got some exposure to aspects of sex other than money shots.

So if that is your H's orientation, then perhaps you can educate him in a way that he can understand.

For example, buy some magazines and s l o w l y go through the pages, telling the story you would like to see behind the photos. Is he a dark stranger that she secretly lusts after? Show him that the context and interpersonal interaction is what builds arousal (or whatever floats your boat)

You can also search (hard) for female friendly porn. Guys loath that and fast forward, but I think that's the point. There are sites made by women and there are sites with real sex.

Again - I think he has way more important things to address - but I believe it when he acts like he doesn't know what you're talking about. So if you stay with him (or meet another young guy with his sex orientation) you'll have to lead him through this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

adegirl2016 said:


> What if my husband has changed and I am just failing to see it? That's how he makes me feel. He says he has changed a ton.


If he had changed, he would CARE about making sure you enjoy sex, too.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

That's what I was thinking.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Not all men who cheat want a divorce. I think that likely most of them don't. They just want a wife at home and a girlfriend (or two) on the side. When you disappeared from TAM just after telling him not to come home -- and you were ready to divorce him -- my guess was that he had talked himself back home as so many do. It's usually easier for a betrayed spouse to stay with the known than deal with the unknown. But the known doesn't always work. That's where you are now.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

adegirl2016 said:


> The point was for us to look for another home but this could also be a great time to cut my losses.


You should plan on the latter. This is all temporary. When you plan for the future, look out for your own best interests - your H certainly isn't/ won't.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The smart thing to do is to separate and tell him that you're willing to wait before you start dating anyone else to see if his changes are real. If he can keep up the changes for the next year, you'll consider getting back together. If he's not willing to put that much effort in, well, you'll know it was all an act to get what HE wanted. Not love.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

So I told him last night this is just the very last chance. This is a great opportunity for us to cut ties (most of them anyway). 

I told him he was going to have to put more effort into sex. Get off the video games every night. He was going to have to find some way to learn to have intimacy with me. Work on himself.

He says he will do whatever he needs to and just tell him exactly what to do. Why can't he just figure it out? Something is wrong with me, so I see an individual counseled. I read books. I reach out to you guys. I actively try to figure it out. 

It's frustrating. He just acts like he doesn't get it.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Adegirl, some people value comfort over growth. The two cannot coexist.

Lay out what you need.

Give him some time to see if he steps up.

At the end of that time period, you accept what he has chosen to do.

If it is enough, you stay.

If it isn't enough, you move on.

Just remember...no matter how much time you invest in polishing, a turd will never become a diamond.


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## adegirl2016 (Dec 14, 2016)

What do you guys think the chances are that they actually had sex more than once? 

She gave him her address the night I found out. 

But I guess things can happen elsewhere...


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I've rarely met a man who will stop at only one time with a woman. Actually, not sure I've ever met one. Once they say yes, the guy sees an easy partner.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. 

If that's his story, he's not going to change it now. But it's very unlikely.

And "just once" is straight from the cheater's script. They almost always minimize.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I think there's a very good chance they had sex more than once.

There are plenty of places besides her place where they could have had sex. People are very inventive when they are horny.


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