# How does an affair even start?



## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

As a betrayed husband trying to cope with the huge amount of rejection and feelings of inadequacy, I've been thinking about how I've never been tempted or swayed to cheat on my W. I'm not sure if its just because I'm so shy or unaproachable, or if I'm intimidating (people often give my intelligence way too much credit). I've only ever dated two women in my life and both were long term, and during each I've never had an "opportunity" to cheat. Am I just blind to advances from women or are they really non-existent? I'm quite reasonably good looking (I think?) I'm succesful, but am very subtle and don't wear emotions on my sleeve, my sense of humor is very dry and sarcastic, maybe I carry a pokerface? Or is it just that I somehow have protected my relationships from threats by subconsciously shutting them down? I seem to have never had a problem repressing dark thoughts, at least superficially, and self-control seems to be something I have in vast quantity.

I guess I want to know the answer to this question because I'm lonely and now I'm separated don't want to shut the door down to meeting an amazing woman before I even realize I shut it. Am I really that different then others, how come it seemed so easy for my wife, and other disloyal spouses to find their way into someone else's loins?

note: I am not referring to what events transpire to make an affair possible, I mean what is going on in the mind of the wayward spouse that makes them act?


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It can start the way any other relationship starts. Talking, flirting, sharing personal info.

Lon--there is nothing wrong wtih you. It was her decision to do that, so don't feel inadequate at all.


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

Jelly is right Lon, I was the WS and granted there were many reasons for ending the marriage in itself, It was not my husbands fault in any way that I had my EA.

It isnt you, and no matter what she says its all on her and her alone!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

JB, I know that her affairs were only in her control, I'm just wondering why except for the few women in my life I was devoted to, there has been very, very little "talking, flirting, sharing personal info" with any other women my entire life, especially the flirting part? I guess I'm not a flirt, but I also can't really recall in my entire life a woman actually flirting with me? Even with my two LTR's when we were starting out their was anticipation, time spent looking in each others eyes and some friendly conversation that just progressed physically, but not flirting in the sense I imagine it to be. I believe I am very astute at seeing what is happening around me, I detect chemistry with others, I used to be able to walk into a nightclub and at one glance could tell who was going home with whom, I see women making eye contact and offering a warm smile to random men all over the place but have not once in my life ever seen a woman offer me such a smile, I feel pretty spectacular if I just make eye contact, but then they always look away. WTF is wrong with me?


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

I was 19 when I met my husband (now ex husband) I was 20 when we got married and for the next 14 years, he was the only man I was ever with. I loved him, I honored him, I was the kind of wife to him that all the men on here wish they had, yet he cheated on me more times than I probably even know about. Why did he cheat? Because he is a narcissistic sociopath (no, he's not been clinically diagnosed as that but from my readings up on it, he fits the description to a tee) meaning my ex husband has no conscience when it comes to the feelings of others, he's a master manipulator who knows how to say what someone wants to hear so he can get his way. He thrives off the attention, he thrives off the "new love high" but that "new love feeling" soon wears off and he moves onto his next victim. I just recently found out that he dumped the ow I divorced him over for yet another woman. This new woman is 13 years younger than him too at just 22 yrs old. A young mind easy to control and manipulate. My ex husband cheated because he's an asshat like that and he will always cheat no matter what. Others cheat because they feel lonely or neglected, some cheat because they like they attention but no matter their excuse to cheat, it's never a reason. There is never a reason to cheat.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Once again, nothing is wrong with you. You are loyal and committed. Those are great things.


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

Lon there is nothing wrong with YOU, look im virtually the same way.

I wouldnt be able to tell if a guy was flirting with me unless he said "lets get naked". I know how to flirt and all that but its often very hard for me to make eye contact becuase well idk its just very personal to be able to do that and upon first meeting someone I can not make that kind of personal connection. Idk if its because im shy or what, most of my relationships started cause I made the first move.

Dont know if its cause Im intimidating or just not as appealing as other girls or what but it has nothing to do with who you are.

So dont think that there is something wrong with you. You are not the reason she had an A. My favorite saying is one thing I have found true in my-self and every other girl I have ever met. "Females are emotional balls of B*ll sh*t"

Again it not you - its her!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Dandri said:


> My favorite saying is one thing I have found true in my-self and every other girl I have ever met. "Females are emotional balls of B*ll sh*t"


I disagree.


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> I disagree.


I was referring to in general - but more specificaly that it isn't him its her and HER emotional problems that led to this situation, NOT him


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

They are not one in the same.

Of course it's not his fault she cheated on him. That goes without saying.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

RWB said:


> Lon,
> 
> My wife serial cheated EPA on me for 6 years, 3 men. Early on in discovery I like you pondered that same question. What is it that allows some people to cheat and lie about it, while others just will not do it.
> 
> ...


:iagree:

I believe the counselors say such things because it allows a wedge for some cheaters to get back into a marriage they messed up by pointing out that the one that didn't cheat has the capacity to do likewise--whether true or not.

It's one of those nonsensical statements that are illustrated by replacing "cheat" with "murder".

As in 

'Given the right circumstances anyone is vulnerable to cheat."

or

"Given the right circumstances anyone is vulnerable to murder."


No.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

ladies I appreciate the support here. I truly understand that I didn't cause my W to start flirting with another man and letting it continue... I'm not taking any blame for that. I just look at what she did and I can't relate in the least - I've always thought that in my marriage if a really sexy woman started relentless coming onto me I'm not sure how far I'd let it get, would it be worth it if I didn't get caught etc, and only two answers come up: 1) I don't know 2) it would never happen.

So my original post is kind of based on my W's cheating, but it is more a forward looking statement of how do I switch from "protect marriage" mode to "single and available" mode, and trying to understand what if any sex appeal I have.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RWB, wow thanks for that comment it really helps... the last paragraph rings true for me, had I been a different kind of guy maybe administering tough love would work, but for her it would have to be non stop and unrelenting and I really have no desire to control someone that way. I have never thought her traits were "bad" until now, but I'm starting to realize they still aren't but it means she will have a really hard time finding happiness all alone.

michzz, good point about the capacity to cheat. I am pretty certain I would never do that, but that's part of the reason I posted this thread.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lon said:


> So my original post is kind of based on my W's cheating, but it is more a forward looking statement of how do I switch from "protect marriage" mode to "single and available" mode, and trying to understand what if any sex appeal I have.


Get out there and start dating once your heart is healed and you feel you are ready.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

I think you never saw opportunity simply because you never looked it for it. Unless some woman desperately throws herself at you you would never pick up on signs if you didn't care to cheat


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

With only my observations and experience to lean on, I disagree Jellybeans. Every relationship is made up of two people. When things go wrong both people had something to do with it. Sure the Wayward spouse went the furthest astray, but a happy spouse doesn't look. 

To point out an example, If a Faithful spouse begins to spend hours every night playing Massive multi-player online role playing games, the uninvolved spouse may feel robbed of affection. They could feel abandoned or hurt. In my mind there is some fault on their part for actions taken bu the other spouse as a result of those feelings. 

Personally If My spouse was wayward, I would feel guilty.

M N


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

Lon said:


> So my original post is kind of based on my W's cheating, but it is more a forward looking statement of how do I switch from "protect marriage" mode to "single and available" mode, and trying to understand what if any sex appeal I have.


Well the switch basically takes time.

As far as your appeal ill be honest in order for me to determine that in any man I have to meet them. Its not something you can determine online with words being sent to and from each person. However I can say this based upon the fact that your reaching out here tells me your not afraid to talk about your emotions - so if your like this IRL then that for me personaly would be a definate point in your favor.

But honest for me it would have to be a FTF to determine that kind of thing in any man. There are more things than just looks that attract a man to me and I dont know about other ladies here but for me I honestly do not care about looks every man I have ever been with has been handsome in my minds eye but if you were to have me catagorize any man I have ever been with in terms of i guess the best way of saying it is "modern hotness" then the men I have been with are the guy next door types lol.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> With only my observations and experience to lean on, I disagree Jellybeans. Every relationship is made up of two people. When things go wrong both people had something to do with it.


I hear what you are saying but don't agree regarding cheating being both person's faults. The choice to cheat lies solely on one person. Nobody holds a gun to their head, nobody makes them do anything.


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

Since I was the one that cheated with an EA in my M I can safley say I was the one with the problem.

It was not my H's fault in any way.

Yes we had many problems, yes it made me feel neglected and unwanted, yes I was desperate for attention and affection.

Was it my H's fault I chose to cheat?

NO!

It was my decision and I wont give myself an out like putting blame on him for what I did.

So I agree with Jelly


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

One thing that you are missing, and I think it is entirely cultural, and not a gender weakness issue, is that the average woman who comes in contact with men during the day is far more likely to be a target for flattering comments. I know men who love to see if they could get a little response out of a woman. To them, its like a game. 

There is a lot of new people in my office. One is a woman who looks almost exactly like the female lead in the Castle television show. She signed up for mentoring, and I was asked to stop by and talk to her (I'm a voluntary mentor). In the course of the conversation, she vented and said that the company is very focused on personal integrity, but too many of the men don't know where to draw the line. I kid you not, as I was there at her desk for our first real meeting, showing her the career paths for her job, a guy stopped to ask her if I was moving in on his territory, and she later said that he knew that she was married, but wouldn't take no for an answer (I dealt with the guy later).

Sadly, your wife didn't see that she was little more than the one woman who gave in to this guy. And maybe even more sadly, if she doesn't get to the place where she understands this, she has just blacklisted herself from being the type of woman that most men would really marry. You haven't, friend.

When the time comes, just be yourself, except to turn off the natural defensive mechanisms that you've learned. Just make sure that you find yourself often at the real places that women attend. Community events, celebrations, and the like. I'm only suggesting that there's no real mystery to it.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> With only my observations and experience to lean on, I disagree Jellybeans. Every relationship is made up of two people. When things go wrong both people had something to do with it. Sure the Wayward spouse went the furthest astray, but a happy spouse doesn't look.
> 
> To point out an example, If a Faithful spouse begins to spend hours every night playing Massive multi-player online role playing games, the uninvolved spouse may feel robbed of affection. They could feel abandoned or hurt. In my mind there is some fault on their part for actions taken bu the other spouse as a result of those feelings.
> 
> ...


funny you mention MMORPG, for about a year I was having a bit of an addiction to one (which I'm too embarrased to say which) it started out as a distraction at work, but then it got to be a commitment to the point where if I was away for more than a few hours it would start to bug me. For a long time it didn't rob my wife or family of affection, we were already in separate beds because of my health condition (like snoring but worse) and since I wasn't sleeping anyway the gameplay went late into the night. There was never any kind of emotional relationship with other players, just friendly but I realize now she may have thought there could have been, never questioned me on it.

When I took a new job I couldn't check in to the game at work and so then it started really overtaking my evenings which affected my time with my child, though not so much marriage since she was working evenings anyway. After a couple months it got to be stressful so I quit, and I regret the time I lost to it - it was fun for awhile, never spent any actual money on it but it probably cost more in lost opportunity.

I feel some guilt about this, it probably factored into her unhappiness, and I did struggle with that guilt for awhile. But I did quit and was willing to address and fix our problems, just didn't know how to go about it as fast as it should have. I failed a lot, but so did she and its no reason to absolve her of her decision to cheat and walkaway.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Dandri said:


> ...But honest for me it would have to be a FTF


yeah I wasn't looking for a diagnosis, I know its impossible to communicate some things over a forum like this. But thanks for pointing out the FTF... I agree I need face time, and I really have been a shut-in... when I do go out its better but I usually still feel like a shut-in when I'm out and about, kind of invisible sometimes. Need to practice I guess and start meeting new friends and social circles.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Mr. Nail said:


> With only my observations and experience to lean on, I disagree Jellybeans. Every relationship is made up of two people. When things go wrong both people had something to do with it. Sure the Wayward spouse went the furthest astray, but a happy spouse doesn't look.
> 
> To point out an example, If a Faithful spouse begins to spend hours every night playing Massive multi-player online role playing games, the uninvolved spouse may feel robbed of affection. They could feel abandoned or hurt. In my mind there is some fault on their part for actions taken bu the other spouse as a result of those feelings.
> 
> ...


While I agree that both hold responsibility for the state of the relationship, only the cheating partner holds responsibility for the affair. He/she could have told the other about the problems. He/she could have tried to work them out. He/she could have divorced. Instead, he/she chose the path of deceit and betrayal. No one else made them do it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Halien said:


> One thing that you are missing, and I think it is entirely cultural, and not a gender weakness issue, is that the average woman who comes in contact with men during the day is far more likely to be a target for flattering comments. I know men who love to see if they could get a little response out of a woman. To them, its like a game.
> 
> There is a lot of new people in my office. One is a woman who looks almost exactly like the female lead in the Castle television show. She signed up for mentoring, and I was asked to stop by and talk to her (I'm a voluntary mentor). In the course of the conversation, she vented and said that the company is very focused on personal integrity, but too many of the men don't know where to draw the line. I kid you not, as I was there at her desk for our first real meeting, showing her the career paths for her job, a guy stopped to ask her if I was moving in on his territory, and she later said that he knew that she was married, but wouldn't take no for an answer (I dealt with the guy later).
> 
> ...


More good advice - thanks! it seems hard to attempt any form of flattery since it seems there are so many implications. When I see a beatiful woman I wonder how many men have chatted her up, some of the attractive women in the office receive NONSTOP attention from the guys, to pay her any kind of compliment means getting lumped in with the scum, yet without making a compliment there is little chance of ever starting any kind of spark. Basically coworkers become off limit, same with anyone else you interact with on a regular formal basis, our culture sucks.

As to my wife receiving affection from other men, I agree with you completely. In her case, she is very sexy, but not (how do I put this, its difficult) universally attractive... most guys would give her a look, and she definitely has some beatiful features (I've always been physically attracted to her as a whole) I never had problems finding things to compliment her on, but she never FELT that flattery from me. She told me what it was she found appealing about the other men, and they would say things like "check out that sexy @ss" to her etc. She told me they LOVE a woman with "curves" etc but you and I know that these guys simply saw her as easy prey and sold her the words she wanted to hear, and that the sex was so intense and long lasting. I wasn't there, maybe they genuinely did think she had the perfect body for them, but I'm pretty sure that if I was looking for one night stands I wouldn't put out the highest expectations, a little imperfection would also go a long way to giving some "staying power".


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## JeffX (Oct 13, 2010)

You're probably getting checked out and flirted with, but you're oblivious to it. I am most of the time. My fiance thinks it's hilarious if we are out and I'm getting checked out. Because I don't notice at all and she can see it. Anyways I'm just saying that might be the case with you as well. Open yourself up a little. Try to be a little more observant. 

Second, you asked, what goes through the mind of someone that is having an affair or something along those lines. I was involved with a married woman. It was a horrible choice that I made, and honestly regret it to this day. What I can tell you is what she told me why she was; I guess looking. She said she was being ignored by her husband, he wasn't there for her, physically, emotionally, and didn't treat her well. She claimed some emotional abuse. Whether this was true or not, I don't know. I was there and I listened to her. And then it spiralled from there. 

And I'm not saying you did any of that. You might have been the most perfect husband ever, and just got screwed by a very selfish person. I'm just giving you some insight.


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## cj9947 (Jul 9, 2011)

Lon,
It sounds like our personalities and life stories have some similarities. I too have been with two women in long term relationships. I too never participated in the flirting game. I also have not had difficulty choosing wrong over right. I think it is based on that I never wanted to disappoint the people who loved me. Most people who know me would call me a stoic. I have plenty of feelings and emotions but I've have chosen to keep them inside and to myself. I never personally liked when people dropped their emotions on me like a water balloon. My wife was the person I shared my deep feelings and emotions with. That is what partly has made her infidelity so hurtful. She knew she was my lifeline to expressing myself. How could I ever do it now after she betrayed me?

I believe there are women around you who have been attracted to you but do not approach you because they respect you as a person and your integrity. I worked at a job for a couple of years and never flirted once with one of my female coworkers. I was friendly but always professional. I would go out to lunch occasionally with my coworkers but never any one on ones. The day I gave my two weeks notice one of my coworkers asked to speak with me in my office. She came into my office; closed the door and said, "I cannot believe you are leaving. It is forcing me to tell you what I have felt for you. I think I love you." I was shocked. Of course I reminded her that I was married and would have to tell my wife about the conversation. She said I was the first man she believed in. She knew I did not fool around and I kept my word.

What I took from the experience is that there is a certain type of woman who is attracted to guys like us. You just have to learn to identify them and approach them. Be patient and I am sure you are going to find some nice for you.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

JeffX, thanks for that, you are possibly right. I remember when I was a teenager and had REALLY good looks I still never noticed anyone checking me out, but one time I was with my grandma and auntie at the mall and they told me all the girls were checking me out... I said "no way", how come I can't see? Like I said before I am very observant of things "around" me I know who is checking who out, and ALL the eyes are on others, I think I'd notice a glance in my direction. Anyways, I guess I'll keep trying - lots of people are telling me that I'll get snatched up, but a lifetime of experience tells me it is a 1 in 10 year event.

Anyways, I'm not specifically looking for dating advice either, just want to get a better understanding of the dynamics at work...thanks for the insight to the mind of the cheater. Nobody's perfect and its true that the WW often says she never got attention/affection, but I guess I realize, it even ties into my query about flirting, that maybe it was being given she just wasn't OPEN to RECEIVING that affection/attention? Either reason is enough to shut it down so that both partners don't feel the love.


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## Heartbrkn (Jun 16, 2011)

Lon, virtually same situation for me. One woman man for 15.5 years.
Never saw or felt where I could have even suggested starting an affair with someone(I never was looking so may have missed the signs).
I have asked my WW, a dozen different ways, how did the A start? how did you feel? did you think of me or the kids? How do you feel confident enough to cross the line? She says he said what she wanted to hear and after enough flirting and innuedo she let him say sexual things and soon said them back.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Grayson said:


> While I agree that both hold responsibility for the state of the relationship, only the cheating partner holds responsibility for the affair. He/she could have told the other about the problems. He/she could have tried to work them out.


Well, as the DS in my own relationship, I did do all of the above. He was not receptive. Would not even attend MC with me upon many many requests. I cheated. And I still do not blame him for my decision/choice to cheat.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks for the replies Grayson, Lon, and Jellybeans. This is helping me understand something that has been bothering me. I know that during one time I felt so abandoned and lonely, I could have made mistakes. I guess it was a good thing I was too depressed to go looking or be attractive. 

This leads me to something that may be of use to Lon. Going from a divorce / breakup to back on the market has some psychological twists I have seen. One you are felling less confident because of the implied or actual rejection. That lack of confidence is unattractive. Two you are cautious to the point of over caution because having been betrayed you don't want to lead another committed person to cause that kind of hurt. So you will miss opportunities because you are checking to see if they really are available. 

Then there is the learning to trust again problem. But that is for later on.

M N


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Mr. Nail said:


> Then there is the learning to trust again problem. But that is for later on.


Which leads to another great topic: 

*How does one trust again after being betrayed?*


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

stritle said:


> 1) try not looking at her boobs and take your hands out of your pockets so nobody thinks you are touching yourself
> 2) smile first, just a smirk..don't want to look like a total goof.
> this has never resulted in anything but a returned smile, or a coy look of some sorts. (which absolutely drives my wife nuts lol)
> 3) quit looking at her boobs


lol... while a nice rack is always impossible to ignore I have always remained strong and not even glanced (in fact, I've recently changed my thinking and have come to realize that if women are showing it off they WANT you to look, even gawk, stare, ogle... maybe bring it up to the eyes and close the jaw once in awhile)

But really I've always been way more of a @ss man (ok sorry this is getting insensitive to the ladies, should be on mens clbhouse I guess) but maybe that's why I'm not noticing them flirting, waiting for them to always walk away from me :scratchhead:

As for dating, I've put out feelers, but I decided I'm not going to pursue anything physical until after D is finished. This is the kind of considerations my WW doesn't seem to value, I guess why its so hard to understand how she did it so easily.


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## Grayson (Oct 28, 2010)

Jellybeans said:


> Well, as the DS in my own relationship, I did do all of the above. He was not receptive. Would not even attend MC with me upon many many requests. I cheated. And I still do not blame him for my decision/choice to cheat.


Looks like we agree, at the end of the day.

Thumbs up, by the way, for owning your actions. My wife has finally owned hers, and is getting help in learning how to manage her destructive impulses. Without either of those two things, I daresay it would be impossible for us to reconcile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Grayson said:


> Looks like we agree, at the end of the day.




I still maintain he was not at fault for my decision. Our marriage was at a bad place but that still doesn't justify what I did.

That is awesome you and your wife are reconciling.  We did not.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

MN, JB, yeah there definitely are pshychological twists involved with moving on after divorce and betrayal/adultery. I wonder if she will ever experience the same issues: cautiousness, rejection and trust.

Surely they will experience them but probably not in anything close to the same "way". My stbxw told me her fling with the recent guy is over, she said she ended it but I wonder if there is truth to that at all or if, more likely, was rejected by the guy (he was probably fine when she's show up ready to go, maybe even do the word work to get her ready, but didn't want to bother putting any actual effort into a relationship). So right there I can see elements of rejection and possibly cautiousness in the future, I don't think trust played a big part of their encounters (which is what scared me the most about her choices).


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Lon said:


> I wonder if she will ever experience the same issues: cautiousness, rejection and trust.


Those are all human feelings and emotions so I am sure she will experience them all.

If she one day finds herself at the end of a betrayal, she will experience the pain you did as well.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Hey Lon---read all the threads on all the websites---and you will get general groupings of what causes A's---but in all actuality---A's can come from anywhere, and start for any reason----

Whatever is going on in your wife's mind---who knows---what she has made up, to allow herself to cheat

But if you stay with her---you surely do need to find out the deep down core why AND FIX IT--- or she will just have another A.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

jnj, not planning on staying with her, I gave her the chance early on after finding out about 1st A to make her choice. Neither of us were very strong about it, but the line was there and I knew she could see it despite the fog shes in. She strung me along before I found out she was using OM#1 as a bit of a decoy to hide OM#2, which she claims she started with "after" separation (which firstly is BS and secondly violated the attempt at R). She has made it perfectly clear she is done with me, though I suspect a large part of her heart and her brain are still shrouded in fog.

Regardless if she is done with me, I'm done with her - I've been struggling with the shame of being the "bad guy" about not sticking with my vows and dealing with her in her time of "sickness", however she broke the vows already and so its just a matter of me accepting that the marriage is already over, there is none, the rest of this divorce process is just getting the paperwork signed. Nor do I think I would ever want to try to make it work with her, she is selfish, immature and irresponsible, things that a "girl" in her thirties shouldn't let overtake her behavior. If I ever commit to a relationship again it will be with a "real woman" (as my dad so ungraciously puts it).


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

Lon said:


> lol... while a nice rack is always impossible to ignore I have always remained strong and not even glanced (in fact, I've recently changed my thinking and have come to realize that if women are showing it off they WANT you to look, even gawk, stare, ogle... maybe bring it up to the eyes and close the jaw once in awhile)
> 
> But really I've always been way more of a @ss man (ok sorry this is getting insensitive to the ladies, should be on mens clbhouse I guess) but maybe that's why I'm not noticing them flirting, waiting for them to always walk away from me :scratchhead:
> 
> As for dating, I've put out feelers, but I decided I'm not going to pursue anything physical until after D is finished. This is the kind of considerations my WW doesn't seem to value, I guess why its so hard to understand how she did it so easily.


I also am clueless to women indicating their reception levels to me. Always have been. 17 years of marriage didn't improve on that. Take, for example, my trip with some friends two weeks ago. Ended up at a BBQ with a bunch of people I didn't know (besides a couple of friends), all with a common interest in running. Ended up talking to a couple of ladies there at different points in the night, and my friends said that both of them were "totally flirting with me". And one of my friends was a single lady, so I trust her opinion. I had absolutely no clue.

I met my current GF online. Developed a relationship online first, got the interest going, then went out on a date. Got some advice from a female friend in advance about how to get through the first date, and took a step way outside my comfort level (taking her hand to hold, kissed her after dinner in the restaurant). Basically, took a flying leap of faith that she was interested in me, even though I didn't see any evidence of it. Figured the worst that could happen was she got pissed off and left... 

As I was paying the bill in the restaurant, she asked if I wanted to go make out in her car... So I guess it worked out ok. 

Anyway, my point is that for guys like us, building a comfort level with a woman prior to meeting might help, and then follow through with confidence. If I need to start off again, I'll be following that advice.

C


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

PBear, I'd be totally clueless too, I guess if I could find a lady that is also totally clueless we would have a bulletproof relationship  Though how we would ever get together would be a mystery of science. The real tricky part about actually finding out you're being flirted with is the ...um...what next?? Like you say getting comfortable with each other would go a long way.

Anyone else think this thread I started is weird going from talking about how our cheating spouses started their affair to advice for dating??


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## Dandri (Jul 14, 2011)

lmao yeah it is a little odd but hopefully its helping you


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

It is. If I can get myself ready to date without subjecting a sweet polite woman with stories of my ex's affair, then I'm one step closer to getting on.


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## FogofmyOwn (Jul 19, 2011)

Lon said:


> Or is it just that I somehow have protected my relationships from threats by subconsciously shutting them down?


I think you hit it on the nail here, as to why you've never been tempted to step outside your marriage. Yes, my suspicion is that unconsciously your mind had processed that it just wasn't an option so the thought of flirting/cheating didn't even cross your mind. In addition I'm guessing you probably didn't want to be with anybody else; these together laid the foundation to why you weren't receptive/susceptible and therefore didn't recognize any "opportunities" they may have been there. 

For my DS he was open to the signals so when they came he welcomed them, and then the thrill and excitement of their continued 'flirting' pushed them to cross the line. 

I believe that now that you are single, there will be a natural change in your mindset that will 'allow' you to 'look' and meet women you will want to get to know better.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

I sometimes get a little sad when I read about all you faithful guys, it's hard not to think, "Why'd I fall in love with a cheater?"  

I've also only had two long term boyfriends, the second being my DS. In college I had a few crushes on other guys while I was with my first boyfriend. I would get excited to see a certain guy in a bar, feel that rush, flirt away the evening, but then happily go to my boyfriend's apartment at bar time. I kind of get the mind of a cheater and how you can easily get wrapped up in the rush. Since my college boyfriend was my first, I never even considered having sex with these crushes, but I still loved the attention and didn't see flirting as wrong.

After college I opened my eyes, broke it off with my boyfriend, and chose to be single and grow up. When I met my H, I was very careful to never engage with someone else I found attractive. I also shut down interactions right away with anyone that was "my type", because I was no longer the flirty girl I was in college.

So, in 17 years together (almost 15 married), I have never had a crush on another man, a flirtatious encounter, or anything even close to cheating. However, I know if I hadn't had that college experience, I might've been easy pickings.

It's hard knowing that my H had to experience this life lesson and learn it while being married to me. Sometimes it makes me want to revive the old college girl from my depths and see if she's still there. Luckily I think it's pretty sad to see a 40-year-old married woman act that way, so I will be refraining. 

I guess what I'm trying to get across, is that one needs to make a very conscious choice to be faithful, one can't just assume they will be. My H never thought he'd be a cheater, but he never realized you have to stop being flirtatious to people you find attractive and open to their attention. He didn't see it has a possibility that someone would find him attractive. It's like he was still in college mode and wanted to see if he could get someone's attention. When someone expressed interest, he was unprepared and got caught up in the excitement of it all. Of course there's other factors too, but bottom line.... if you're open to the possibilities, they will find you.

I know you need to heal before you can start dating again Lon, but I'm sure the possibilities will start finding you soon enough. If someone doesn't get your dry and sarcastic humor, then move along, because they're lame.  I recently introduced my daughter to someone and said, "Here's the fruit of my loins." Some people laugh and others think you're insane. Give me the laughing person anyday.


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## dawgfan (Jul 22, 2011)

Lon said:


> Anyone else think this thread I started is weird going from talking about how our cheating spouses started their affair to advice for dating??


Funny that I came across this post. Related to your original question, just today I heard this radio program talking about how affairs get started.......how casual friendships get flirty and can lead to full blown affairs. Check this page out, it had some pretty interesting articles on it.

Let me know what ya think!

dawgfan


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