# Opinions Needed- Son's engagement



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

I Came here to collect opinions, I want to check it against my thinking, Thanks
First just the facts, as best they can be called that.
Son, age 26 is in grad school. He broke up with his old girlfriend in February of this year. She was a Chinese foreign national and she went to his school. They saw each other about 2 years, during which he mentioned the possibility of marriage but there was no discussion of kids. His current fiancee just finished law school last year, she lives about 100 miles from him, they met online in February-March time frame. She is also a Chinese foreign national here on an H1B visa and has a job as an attorney. She is 31 years old and says she will have 2 kids in the next 5 years with or without my son, even if she has to have in-vitreo fertilization and go it alone. She has also expressed strong desire to be an American citizen. 
They plan on a Chinese wedding in January, an American one next summer, and that would be about the same time my son could be defending his PhD thesis if all goes well. They plan on living apart right where they are after the Chinese wedding, I am not sure what the plan is after the American one. She claims that she can get a job anywhere as a patent attorney and will move where ever my son’s unknown job-to-be takes him. They also said they want to space the kids 4 years apart, that means first child will be within the next 18 months approximately. 


Now these are what I also consider relevant ‘facts’, but not things you can absolutely say about this situation. Please correct them if wrong:
1. Chinese women have been having anchor babies in the US, that is if they give birth here, then the child is automatically a citizen and they cannot be deported. 
2. Foreign nationals have more rights in a divorce from an American than Americans do, IF they stay here. 
3. Cross-culture marriages are more challenging than mono-culture marriages
4. People generally have 3 stages of love. The first two are bio-chemical based, the last stage is a more rational bond based on mutual respect, trust, and life interests. Statistical studies have shown that the majority of lasting marriages are formed when the engagement process is about two years long, which nicely matches the estimated time for the bio-chemical stage to settle down. The same studies show that courtships lasting less than a year have the highest rates of divorce. 

I met the fiancée once just last weekend. She is a nice enough woman, very outgoing, intelligent and honest about her intentions, the only issue I have so far is that she likes to dominate conversation and has quick answers for everything. She appears very much like a woman with a plan and likes to be in charge. She didn’t ask one single question about me, everything was about either herself, or the topic of babies and childcare. 
My son is happy with her, just as he was happy with Chinese girlfriend number one initially. I like seeing my son happy, but I cannot help but see red flags all over the place. What do you see?


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

It does sound like your son is actually very comfortable being told what to do. A woman with a plan who can make decisions for him might actually appeal to him greatly, particularly if he is not hugely outgoing or socially confident himself.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I see an adult kid who is attracted to Asian women and is old enough to make his own mistakes.


----------



## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

TBH it sort of sounds like you might have an issue with her race. 

But if this were my son, and he'd just broken up with his girlfriend of two years in February and was already engaged in fkn July I'd be all "haha, no. No way. You're crazy and you have no idea what you're doing." It is kind of suspicious that a seemingly intelligent young woman wouldn't think this is an issue.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

She sounds fine, but of course any relationship/marriage can lead to problems, even without the international issues. My uncle married a Chinese woman via correspondence, met her, married her, and they have been happy together for nearly 30 years. She's smart, hard-working, and loyal. I think he got lucky.


----------



## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

i dont know...

i sent my wife a message and then disappeared for two months, no contact with the outside world allowed. when i came back, i saw that she had messaged me back. we got married less than a month later. 

the question is, is your son the kind of person who can get himself into those moments where he thinks "what did i do?!", and still be happy and make it work?

both myself and my wife had those moments. neither of us would change a thing though.

and while cross cultural marriages may be more difficult(i wouldnt know), mail order marriages have a much lower divorce rate than typical american marriages. go figure.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

My question is what do you think you're going to be able to do about it if you don't agree with the marriage plan.

Your son is a young adult who is educated and sounds capable of making his own choices about who he's going to marry.

Do you really think you can stop him from proceeding?


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> It does sound like your son is actually very comfortable being told what to do. A woman with a plan who can make decisions for him might actually appeal to him greatly, particularly if he is not hugely outgoing or socially confident himself.



Seems like it for now with her, if he has one molecule of his father in him someday he will rebel. You are right on the confidence part with women I think.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

batsociety said:


> TBH it sort of sounds like you might have an issue with her race.
> 
> But if this were my son, and he'd just broken up with his girlfriend of two years in February and was already engaged in fkn July I'd be all "haha, no. No way. You're crazy and you have no idea what you're doing." It is kind of suspicious that a seemingly intelligent young woman wouldn't think this is an issue.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have an issue with her culture and being an alien, not her race. Chinese have anchor babies all the time, so it seems that manipulating my son would be well within her cultural norms. As you say, why else would an intelligent 31 year old woman be ok with this? Why would an intelligent 26 year old in any case.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> She sounds fine, but of course any relationship/marriage can lead to problems, even without the international issues. My uncle married a Chinese woman via correspondence, met her, married her, and they have been happy together for nearly 30 years. She's smart, hard-working, and loyal. I think he got lucky.


sure, by herself as a person she is fine, I sure hope my son is lucky, this case is against the odds.


----------



## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Your son is 26, time to cut the apron strings. He is an adult and that means making choices that you might not agree with and that may or may not turn out well. But this is his life and his lessons to learn. 

If on the other hand he asks for your opinion on the matter tell him exactly what you think. Just be prepared for him to do what he wants in the end.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

As'laDain said:


> i dont know...
> 
> i sent my wife a message and then disappeared for two months, no contact with the outside world allowed. when i came back, i saw that she had messaged me back. we got married less than a month later.
> 
> ...


Mail orders seem like they are more for men with money who know exactly what they want, and women who are ready to marry that and probably are not alpha females. My son is still in school, this woman I doubt would ever mail order herself, she seems too much to want control. 

Of course there is a chance of success, of course he will have the moment of truth, and as you say it I agree, a decision will be made. 
I am trying to come to grips with the possibilities. I think for every story like yours there are 2 much sadder tales.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

kristin2349 said:


> Your son is 26, time to cut the apron strings. He is an adult and that means making choices that you might not agree with and that may or may not turn out well. But this is his life and his lessons to learn.
> 
> If on the other hand he asks for your opinion on the matter tell him exactly what you think. Just be prepared for him to do what he wants in the end.


yes, but I want my opinion to be as good as possible, so I am here to examine it.

I have already told him he is his own man, I also told him that I am not a rubber stamp on all his decisions.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> My question is what do you think you're going to be able to do about it if you don't agree with the marriage plan.
> 
> Your son is a young adult who is educated and sounds capable of making his own choices about who he's going to marry.
> 
> Do you really think you can stop him from proceeding?


Could I stop him? I bet I could if I did something radical and harmful, but I'm not going to do that. 

I'm not necessarily trying to stop him, I'm trying to educate him on how to make good decisions and maybe slow it down some. I have links to studies showing that 2 years of courtship are statistically the most probable to lead to success. Probably because one has time to start to see the flaws and all that, get past the chemicals.


----------



## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

NCC1701 said:


> I have an issue with her culture and being an alien, not her race. Chinese have anchor babies all the time, so it seems that manipulating my son would be well within her cultural norms. As you say, why else would an intelligent 31 year old woman be ok with this? Why would an intelligent 26 year old in any case.


Oh, sorry! I didn't know she was an alien. Your concerns are totally justified. Anyone who abducts people to perform experiments without consent, or mutilates cows for no good reason is not someone I want anywhere near my son. 

Come on dude. You're being gross. 

But regardless, have you actually spoken to your son about your concerns? Even if her intentions are completely genuine, love makes people do stupid things. Maybe an outside perspective will make him think about what he is planning to do. And if nothing changes, well, at least you'll feel better for trying. Like other posters have said, he's an adult, he can make his own decisions and face the consequences if he needs to.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> Seems like it for now with her, if he has one molecule of his father in him someday he will rebel. You are right on the confidence part with women I think.


The book, No More Mister Nice Guy is quoted very much on this forum and sometimes excessively, but it might partially apply to your son. I write "partially", as the archetype the book writes about is a manipulative person obsessed with his own feelings and I doubt he is like that. However, the thought that your son might be trying to be unlike his Dad alerted me.

He is a grown man nonetheless and if the worst come to the worst he will be divorced and poorer. Far worse things can happen.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

batsociety said:


> Oh, sorry! I didn't know she was an alien. Your concerns are totally justified. Anyone who abducts people to perform experiments without consent, or mutilates cows for no good reason is not someone I want anywhere near my son.
> 
> Come on dude. You're being gross.
> 
> ...


He just dropped this on me last week, I am in the process of gathering my wits so I don't get to bent out of shape and harm our relationship. I need people like you to make sure my brain is straight.

Then, when I can approach him in a calm and comprehensive way, I'll ask him if I can give my 2 cents. My goal will be to delay baby 1 until 3 years. I figure that give my boy a shot at introspection.

BTW thanks to all of you


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I'm not necessarily trying to stop him, I'm trying to educate him on how to make good decisions and maybe slow it down some. I have links to studies showing that 2 years of courtship are statistically the most probable to lead to success. Probably because one has time to start to see the flaws and all that, get past the chemicals.


Look, I have two children...one of marrying age and one younger and I can tell you that I totally understand your concern. Its perfectly valid.

However, your son is 26 years old and if he asks your opinion, you have every right to state it but if he doesn't, you're treading on his right to make a decision about who and when to marry. And most likely, he's not going to take your advice (data driven or not). I'm simply suggesting you should prepare yourself for that.

In addition, you should be careful about poisoning the well here. If you criticize his fiancé, he's probably going to tell her and you're going to be setting yourself up for a difficult relationship with her and your potential grandchildren. If he's weak-willed and she's the boss in the relationship, this could be a very bad strategy.

At the end of the day, you've raised an adult child who has the right to make his own choice and make his own mistakes. I think you should exercise caution in how you advise him in this so that you don't damage something you're not expecting.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> The book, No More Mister Nice Guy is quoted very much on this forum and sometimes excessively, but it might partially apply to your son. I write "partially", as the archetype the book writes about is a manipulative person obsessed with his own feelings and I doubt he is like that. However, the thought that your son might be trying to be unlike his Dad alerted me.
> 
> He is a grown man nonetheless and if the worst come to the worst he will be divorced and poorer. Far worse things can happen.


 I have been far too submissive and giving in the past, then it starts to irritate me when being a nice guy doesn't get the response I want. Finally I get tired of it. Happened in my two marriages, My ex (his mom) told me that I was not assertive enough with her. It seemed she wanted some kind of captain of the boat that gave her exactly what she desired. 

I fear he IS being somewhat like I was, but at a more extreme level. (Please son, don't do what dad did) This woman however is nothing like his mother, I don't know, maybe thats a good sign.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Then, when I can approach him in a calm and comprehensive way, I'll ask him if I can give my 2 cents. My goal will be to delay baby 1 until 3 years. I figure that give my boy a shot at introspection.


Its obvious you love your son and want the best for him and I think its a great idea for people to wait to have children.

Unfortunately, I also know that when a determined woman wants a baby, there might not be much you can do about it.

Anyway, good luck.

If he does make a mistake, one thing I've learned with both myself and in raising kids is that is the tough stuff that we grow the most from. He's going to make mistakes you just cannot save him from....its just part of the life process.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> I have been far too submissive and giving in the past, then it starts to irritate me when being a nice guy doesn't get the response I want. Finally I get tired of it. Happened in my two marriages, My ex (his mom) told me that I was not assertive enough with her. It seemed she wanted some kind of captain of the boat that gave her exactly what she desired.
> 
> I fear he IS being somewhat like I was, but at a more extreme level. (Please son, don't do what dad did) This woman however is nothing like his mother, I don't know, maybe thats a good sign.


That seems very self-aware and it makes more sense now.


----------



## skype (Sep 25, 2013)

He met her online in February-March and she lives 100 miles away from your son? I would ask him how well he thinks he knows her. Has he seen her at her worst yet? How do they handle conflict? What do her parents think about this relationship?

In addition to gentle questioning, do you have a brother, sister, or neighbor he is close to? Can they point out the potential difficulties he will face?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> 1. Chinese women have been having anchor babies in the US, that is if they give birth here, then the child is automatically a citizen and they cannot be deported.


Women of every race/nationality have anchor babies. This is not just a Chinese thing. 
She’s already in the USA and already works here? She has a green card, right?


NCC1701 said:


> 2. Foreign nationals have more rights in a divorce from an American than Americans do, IF they stay here.


I have no clue why you believe this. Please educate us on what these extra right are… 


NCC1701 said:


> 3. Cross-culture marriages are more challenging than mono-culture marriages


Marriage is a challenge. A lot of people make cross culture marriages work all the time. It’s been going on since the dawn of time. Where do you think all of us multi-racial people come from?

You cannot remove all risk from your son’s life. He has to make his own choices in life.


NCC1701 said:


> 4. People generally have 3 stages of love. The first two are bio-chemical based, the last stage is a more rational bond based on mutual respect, trust, and life interests. Statistical studies have shown that the majority of lasting marriages are formed when the engagement process is about two years long, which nicely matches the estimated time for the bio-chemical stage to settle down. The same studies show that courtships lasting less than a year have the highest rates of divorce.


2-5 years of dating is the magic time frame. Also marriages in which the woman is under 25 and/or the man under 30 fail. I believe it’s the highest divorce rate at 50%.

But when the women is over 25 and has a college degree, the divorce rate drops to 25%.

When both spouses have advanced degrees the divorce rate is even smaller. Or we can look at it as the success rate is much higher.



NCC1701 said:


> I met the fiancée once just last weekend. She is a nice enough woman, very outgoing, intelligent and honest about her intentions, the only issue I have so far is that she likes to dominate conversation and has quick answers for everything. She appears very much like a woman with a plan and likes to be in charge. She didn’t ask one single question about me, everything was about either herself, or the topic of babies and childcare.


Good thing you are not marrying her since you don’t trust her, even though you do not know her.


NCC1701 said:


> My son is happy with her, just as he was happy with Chinese girlfriend number one initially. I like seeing my son happy, but I cannot help but see red flags all over the place. What do you see?


The more you try to break up this marriage, the more you drive them together. IT’s the Romeo and Juliet thing.

They’ve known each other for a few months. The date of the Chinese wedding is 6 months away. A lot can happen in 6 months.

By interfering in his relationship, you are telling your son that you do not trust his ability to live his own life. Not a good message.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Look, I have two children...one of marrying age and one younger and I can tell you that I totally understand your concern. Its perfectly valid.
> 
> However, your son is 26 years old and if he asks your opinion, you have every right to state it but if he doesn't, you're treading on his right to make a decision about who and when to marry. And most likely, he's not going to take your advice (data driven or not). I'm simply suggesting you should prepare yourself for that.
> 
> ...


yeah  but I can at least kick and scream in here, maybe I need therapy to learn to let go


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Its obvious you love your son and want the best for him and I think its a great idea for people to wait to have children.
> 
> Unfortunately, I also know that when a determined woman wants a baby, there might not be much you can do about it.
> 
> ...


It won't kill him, it won't kill him.... my new mantra


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Women of every race/nationality have anchor babies. This is not just a Chinese thing.
> She’s already in the USA and already works here? She has a green card, right?


no green card, she only has an h1b visa
the chinese are more organized about anchor babies than most, and the conditions in their homeland push them that way



> I have no clue why you believe this. Please educate us on what these extra right are…


What Sponsors Should Know Before Signing Form I-864 Affidavit of Support | Nolo.com



> Marriage is a challenge. A lot of people make cross culture marriages work all the time. It’s been going on since the dawn of time. Where do you think all of us multi-racial people come from?


 sure, all I said it that is was harder





> 2-5 years of dating is the magic time frame. Also marriages in which the woman is under 25 and/or the man under 30 fail. I believe it’s the highest divorce rate at 50%.
> 
> But when the women is over 25 and has a college degree, the divorce rate drops to 25%.
> 
> When both spouses have advanced degrees the divorce rate is even smaller. Or we can look at it as the success rate is much higher.


maybe the education will mitigate the fact he is only 5 months into a rebound relation, I sure hope so




> Good thing you are not marrying her since you don’t trust her, even though you do not know her.


she did nothing to earn my trust in 4 hours, I would have to be a fool to blind trust her



> The more you try to break up this marriage, the more you drive them together. IT’s the Romeo and Juliet thing.
> 
> They’ve known each other for a few months. The date of the Chinese wedding is 6 months away. A lot can happen in 6 months.
> 
> By interfering in his relationship, you are telling your son that you do not trust his bility to live his own life. Not a good message.


I didn't have good decision making skills when I was younger, sure wish my dad cared enough to maybe do some coaching. Us guys lean on each other for advice all the time. I said I am not trying to necessarily break it up, I'm trying help him make a good decision for himself. If she is the the one, then she is the one, but making that call right now is crazy.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

skype said:


> He met her online in February-March and she lives 100 miles away from your son? I would ask him how well he thinks he knows her. Has he seen her at her worst yet? How do they handle conflict? What do her parents think about this relationship?
> 
> In addition to gentle questioning, do you have a brother, sister, or neighbor he is close to? Can they point out the potential difficulties he will face?


thank you for the good questions I can try and answer. I just don't know much about this right now, he has mentioned a new girlfriend over the last 3 months but I was preoccupied with my wife's health issues. I did think, 'great son, have some fun' but I never imagined he would pop the question in 5 months.


----------



## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Federal Agents Raid Alleged ?Maternity Tourism? Businesses Catering to Chinese - WSJ

I think what I find most concerning is quickly this is all going down. Have you straight out asked him what is the rush?


----------



## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

You can be as concerned as you like, and hold fears for your sons future as much as you like. Like you, I believe your fears are well founded.

However, your son is an adult and his relationship is simply none of your business. If you interfere you face the very real risk of losing your son, along with any future grandchildren.

My mother in law made this mistake with my husbands first marriage. She tried to stop it, and understandably it left a bitter taste in his ex wife's mouth. MIL's relationship with my husband is strained at best. She also doesn't see her granddaughter, not because of my hubby or his ex wife, but because her granddaughter simply refuses to see her. She just doesn't like her.

Sadly, MIL didn't learn from the above and now revels in making life difficult for my husband and I. I have cut her off completely, hubby still sees his family at this stage, though he is getting more and more fed up as time goes on. They are likely going to lose him due to their behaviour.

You really need to keep your mouth shut OP. Sorry, but you do.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

soccermom2three said:


> Federal Agents Raid Alleged ?Maternity Tourism? Businesses Catering to Chinese - WSJ
> 
> I think what I find most concerning is quickly this is all going down. Have you straight out asked him what is the rush?


no he will not answer directly.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

frusdil said:


> You can be as concerned as you like, and hold fears for your sons future as much as you like. Like you, I believe your fears are well founded.
> 
> However, your son is an adult and his relationship is simply none of your business. If you interfere you face the very real risk of losing your son, along with any future grandchildren.
> 
> ...


maybe, but it is clear future DIL doesn't care about inlaws, her plan is all that matters. I don't see a healthy relationship whether I say anything or not


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

NCC1701 said:


> I have an issue with her culture and being an alien, not her race. Chinese have anchor babies all the time, so it seems that manipulating my son would be well within her cultural norms. As you say, why else would an intelligent 31 year old woman be ok with this? Why would an intelligent 26 year old in any case.


I lived and worked and China as foreigner. They focus on family. It's clear her biological clock is ticking now that she has completed school and has career. This is very typical Chinese behavior.

If she is classic Chinese they can be loyal partners.

I'd be most concerned about the short courtship, not her being an 'alien'. Most Chinese that get educated in the US have desire to stay in place. 

The Chinese want the kid and family. If that's her true desire to have family, those women can be quite protective of a relationship as it involves kids. But again, this assumes she not a "liberated progressive" type women but more grounded, conservative value Chinese culture. Hope that helps.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

jdawg2015 said:


> I lived and worked and China as foreigner. They focus on family. It's clear her biological clock is ticking now that she has completed school and has career. This is very typical Chinese behavior.
> 
> If she is classic Chinese they can be loyal partners.
> 
> ...


thanks. I'm sure they can make great wives, so can women from america. 

Any insight as to why she would not say anything like that me? All she wanted to talk about was herself and her career, is that 'typical'?


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

It sounds as if your son has a compulsion to do some good and to do that and make a sacrifice, he has to find someone willing to accept a selfless sacrifice.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> no he will not answer directly.


Which tells me she's guilting him into it, he knows it's wrong, but he's not willing to give her up. She's probably told him marry me or you don't get me any more.

I would (1) hand him a copy of NMMNG (you should have done that long ago) and (2) ask for one favor - TRY to find a way to postpone it for at least another six months. Things should shake out by then.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> thanks. I'm sure they can make great wives, so can women from america.
> 
> Any insight as to why she would not say anything like that me? All she wanted to talk about was herself and her career, is that 'typical'?


Maybe she was afraid you were already judging her, so she was putting on a show to convince you all her great attributes. And remember that HER view of that could vary greatly from yours. In her culture, her child giving ability is probably her best attribute and she may think that's what you'd want to hear about.

Also, unless she's an only child, if she returns to China, she's only allowed one child there. So staying here means she can have as many as she wants. We had friends from China who moved here - temporarily - precisely SO they could have a second child, since the first one was a girl, and then they went back home. Kids are big deals to Chinese.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> thanks. I'm sure they can make great wives, so can women from america.
> 
> Any insight as to why she would not say anything like that me? All she wanted to talk about was herself and her career, is that 'typical'?


What did she not say to you that you think she should have ?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If this were my son, I too would be concerned about some of the same things:
It sounds like a rebound relationship.
It’s a long distance relationship. They have spent very little time together in real life.
They are marrying far too quickly.
The issues of getting a sponsor so she can stay in the USA is a valid concern.

All you can do is to educate your son on some things. You can approach is as you wanting to make sure that he knows the laws before he marries her. Do not approach it as you don’t want him to marry her. That would drive your son away and push him towards her. 
This link you gave is a good example of the info you can provide for him. 

What Sponsors Should Know Before Signing Form I-864 Affidavit of Support | Nolo.com

I would also see if you can get him to read the marriage laws of at least the state that he’s living in or where he thinks he’ll end up living. One thing that a lot of people do not realize is that marriage is a civil contract. 

That said, I think that you are assigning to her a lot of motives that you are basically making up. You have no idea of her motives. Keep in mind that in a lot of societies people do not pick a spouse based on dating, lust and love. Instead they have arranged marriages. So a person growing up in these societies are more likely to pick a spouse based on their character, their social position, education, financial status and what they can bring to the marriage. Your son has a lot to offer as a husband. She has a lot to offer as a wife.

It’s a fact that divorce rates are much lower in arranged marriages. The couple often (if not usually) grows to love each other. They often skip that first romantic love phase that happens in the first 18-24 months of knowing each other… the one where people make foolish decisions because they are so high on feel good brain chemicals. You don’t see many divorces because there is not an expectation of life long romantic love. I love you but am not in love with you is not something that will usually be an issue.

And no, I’m not a fan of arranged marriages. I just realize that surprisingly they tend to work out well. I also know that love marriages seem to have high divorce rate.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> What did she not say to you that you think she should have ?



Here is what a woman should say in her position to me, IMO:

"Dear Future Father in Law, I sense that you may be anxious about your son getting engaged to someone you don't even know in 5 short months, but here is why everything will be all ok and in 5 years you will be happy with your son's decision [fill in the blank with a believable explanation]"

Instead all I got was details of her grand plan for herself.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> If this were my son, I too would be concerned about some of the same things:
> It sounds like a rebound relationship.
> It’s a long distance relationship. They have spent very little time together in real life.
> They are marrying far too quickly.
> ...


thanks for the thoughtfulness.

I know two of her motives for sure, she has stated them.

she wants 2 kids, she wants to be a citizen


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> I Came here to collect opinions, I want to check it against my thinking, Thanks
> First just the facts, as best they can be called that.
> Son, age 26 is in grad school. He broke up with his old girlfriend in February of this year. She was a Chinese foreign national and she went to his school. They saw each other about 2 years, during which he mentioned the possibility of marriage but there was no discussion of kids. His current fiancee just finished law school last year, she lives about 100 miles from him, they met online in February-March time frame. She is also a Chinese foreign national here on an H1B visa and has a job as an attorney. She is 31 years old and says she will have 2 kids in the next 5 years with or without my son, even if she has to have in-vitreo fertilization and go it alone. She has also expressed strong desire to be an American citizen.
> They plan on a Chinese wedding in January, an American one next summer, and that would be about the same time my son could be defending his PhD thesis if all goes well. They plan on living apart right where they are after the Chinese wedding, I am not sure what the plan is after the American one. She claims that she can get a job anywhere as a patent attorney and will move where ever my son’s unknown job-to-be takes him. They also said they want to space the kids 4 years apart, that means first child will be within the next 18 months approximately.
> ...


I see your son being pretty miserable once the shine wears off his new apple.

Love the name, by the way. Now you need an avatar to match.

ETA: Here you go...


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> Maybe she was afraid you were already judging her, so she was putting on a show to convince you all her great attributes. And remember that HER view of that could vary greatly from yours. In her culture, her child giving ability is probably her best attribute and she may think that's what you'd want to hear about.
> 
> Also, unless she's an only child, if she returns to China, she's only allowed one child there. So staying here means she can have as many as she wants. We had friends from China who moved here - temporarily - precisely SO they could have a second child, since the first one was a girl, and then they went back home. Kids are big deals to Chinese.


I would make the attempt to try and learn first what might impress my future father in law either by asking the son or by reading. She knows I am not chinese.

She didnt give much time to fertility, seemed to be assumed. Excessive time on her future career plans (MBA, own her own business, get rich I guess). She waved off child rearing by saying she would find a chinese nanny and pay her under the table. Had she cared to ask me about it for instance, I'd rather my grandkids were raised by her at home, I'm not impressed by her plans to be a dual career power couple. I'm not into status.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I see your son being pretty miserable once the shine wears off his new apple.
> 
> Love the name, by the way. Now you need an avatar to match.
> 
> ETA: Here you go...


thanks, when I get motivated I'll use that.

I also easily see my poor boy being miserable in 5 years


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> It sounds as if your son has a compulsion to do some good and to do that and make a sacrifice, he has to find someone willing to accept a selfless sacrifice.


the young man has a heart of gold, he even bought her a piano for her birthday, and he lives off a grad student stipend. Combine that with a broken lonely heart and you someone very vulnerable to be taken advantage of.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> Which tells me she's guilting him into it, he knows it's wrong, but he's not willing to give her up. She's probably told him marry me or you don't get me any more.
> 
> I would (1) hand him a copy of NMMNG (you should have done that long ago) and (2) ask for one favor - TRY to find a way to postpone it for at least another six months. Things should shake out by then.


NMMNG = ? 

I have no doubt she is in charge.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> NMMNG = ?
> 
> I have no doubt she is in charge.


"No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover...

No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books

It's recommended pretty frequently for "nice guys" around these parts.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover...
> 
> No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> It's recommended pretty frequently for "nice guys" around these parts.



thanks

I want to reiterate my gratefulness to all of you fantastic people


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> I would make the attempt to try and learn first what might impress my future father in law either by asking the son or by reading.


You sound like my H. Always judging my DD24's boyfriends based on what HE thinks they should be doing to kiss up to him or impress him or meet his expectations. Except they aren't DATING him. They're dating our daughter. FYI, I tell her to keep her boyfriends away from him when he can't control his need to control.


----------



## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> NMMNG = ?
> 
> I have no doubt she is in charge.


No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books

NMMNG = No More Mr Nice Guy

The title is misleading. Much of hte book is about men who consider themselves deep and sensitive, but are very self-centered. However, it is also useful for those that merely have a compulsion to give (and giving in to a compusion is not geenerosity).


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> You sound like my H. Always judging my DD24's boyfriends based on what HE thinks they should be doing to kiss up to him or impress him or meet his expectations. Except they aren't DATING him. They're dating our daughter. FYI, I tell her to keep her boyfriends away from him when he can't control his need to control.


I do judge, everyone does, I want my son to have a good wife. Don't kid yourself, there are some young men you would not like to be with DD24, that's called judging. My expectations are simple and reasonable, such as give me one reason to think that this woman is not out after anything but to use my son as a means to her ends.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Mr The Other said:


> No More Mr Nice Guy: Robert A. Glover: 9780762415335: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> NMMNG = No More Mr Nice Guy
> 
> The title is misleading. Much of hte book is about men who consider themselves deep and sensitive, but are very self-centered. However, it is also useful for those that merely have a compulsion to give (and giving in to a compusion is not geenerosity).


I really don't know what he considers himself to be, I only know what I consider him to be. I think he is lonely first and foremost, and gives a lot in order not to be.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's always possible that she's what I suggested, nervous about being good enough, worried you won't approve, trying hard to get you to give your blessing, and that they are in love.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> It's always possible that she's what I suggested, nervous about being good enough, worried you won't approve, trying hard to get you to give your blessing, and that they are in love.


Of course, but it is chemical love of the second or first stage for him. I have no idea if she feels really caring or not, she said nothing to indicate that


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

NCC1701 said:


> I really don't know what he considers himself to be, I only know what I consider him to be. I think he is lonely first and foremost, and gives a lot in order not to be.


That would be your prototypical "nice guy".


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> That would be your prototypical "nice guy".


sounds good, I think I'll get the book


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> I don't see a healthy relationship whether I say anything or not


Yea but do you want to antagonize a woman that might shortly be giving birth to your grandchild?

I know a lot of women who don't really allow their children around grandparents because of this type of stuff. I'm not suggesting you don't do what seems right to do...I'm simply saying perhaps you should tread lightly.



> I do judge, everyone does, I want my son to have a good wife. Don't kid yourself, there are some young men you would not like to be with DD24, that's called judging. My expectations are simple and reasonable, such as give me one reason to think that this woman is not out after anything but to use my son as a means to her ends.


This might be a little over-reaching. One because you really don't have much control over a 26 year old child's marital choice. Two because any woman getting married technically has an agenda to work that person into her plans. 

Is he picking a future partner who's trying to control his destiny because he had a mother who tried to control his destiny and its what he's used to?


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> Yea but do you want to antagonize a woman that might shortly be giving birth to your grandchild?
> 
> I know a lot of women who don't really allow their children around grandparents because of this type of stuff. I'm not suggesting you don't do what seems right to do...I'm simply saying perhaps you should tread lightly.


I haven't said anything to her, just posting here, of course I need to be careful.





> This might be a little over-reaching. One because you really don't have much control over a 26 year old child's marital choice. Two because any woman getting married technically has an agenda to work that person into her plans.
> 
> Is he picking a future partner who's trying to control his destiny because he had a mother who tried to control his destiny and its what he's used to?


Judging is how we select our mates, why does it get a bad rap? Never said judging is control, but judging is right and natural.

Key question, does her agenda mean also making my son's agenda come true? or is it all for herself? I dont know

I have to think deeply about the mother part, she controlled via passive agressive to some degree. This lady appears to be outright domineering. They are not alike.


----------



## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

NCC1701 said:


> She didnt give much time to fertility, seemed to be assumed. Excessive time on her future career plans (MBA, own her own business, get rich I guess). She waved off child rearing by saying she would find a chinese nanny and pay her under the table. Had she cared to ask me about it for instance, I'd rather my grandkids were raised by her at home, I'm not impressed by her plans to be a dual career power couple. I'm not into status.



With or without a nanny, you and your son may not like the way she raises the kids. Asian mothers can be very different than western mothers. The word tiger mom exists for a reason. It's not to say that it's right or wrong but I think child rearing should be discussed before the child is born in the case where there is potential for huge cultural clash. 

There's a book called Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom you can suggest to your son or perhaps just plant the seed in conversation and perhaps he will google the term. 

Not all Asian moms are like this but the way you have described her this would be a concern. If they live in a community with a high Asian population (like I do). The competitive nature of the cultures and the kids academic success as a reflection of good parenting can be heightened.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

coffee4me said:


> With or without a nanny, you and your son may not like the way she raises the kids. Asian mothers can be very different than western mothers. The word tiger mom exists for a reason. It's not to say that it's right or wrong but I think child rearing should be discussed before the child is born in the case where there is potential for huge cultural clash.
> 
> There's a book called Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom you can suggest to your son or perhaps just plant the seed in conversation and perhaps he will google the term.
> 
> Not all Asian moms are like this but the way you have described her this would be a concern. If they live in a community with a high Asian population (like I do). The competitive nature of the cultures and the kids academic success as a reflection of good parenting can be heightened.


thanks, tiger mom stuff and all, wish that were the only problem, I'm sort of stuck on not proposing 4 months into a rebound. Good to keep in mind though.

I know my son, I know he thinks he understands, but I know he doesn't really.


----------



## ILoveSparkles (Oct 28, 2013)

NCC1701 said:


> She didnt give much time to fertility, seemed to be assumed. Excessive time on her future career plans (MBA, own her own business, get rich I guess). She waved off child rearing by saying she would find a chinese nanny and pay her under the table. Had she cared to ask me about it for instance, I'd rather my grandkids were raised by her at home, I'm not impressed by her plans to be a dual career power couple. I'm not into status.


Woah. How this couple decides how to run their family is of no concern to you. You are in favor of a SAHM, which is fine - but perhaps your son sees their family life different than what YOU want. She has already established her career - what if they decided that your son be a SAHD because he doesn't have a known job yet? I'm guessing you would not go for that. 

Ultimately, it does not matter how YOU feel your grandkids should be raised. Your son also has the same "dual career power couple" mentality as her. 

You are way too emotionally invested in your sons life. Nothing good will come of that. He's an adult and if you don't agree with his life decisions, well that's on you.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Yes said:


> Woah. How this couple decides how to run their family is of no concern to you. You are in favor of a SAHM, which is fine - but perhaps your son sees their family life different than what YOU want. She has already established her career - what if they decided that your son be a SAHD because he doesn't have a known job yet? I'm guessing you would not go for that.
> 
> Ultimately, it does not matter how YOU feel your grandkids should be raised. Your son also has the same "dual career power couple" mentality as her.
> 
> You are way too emotionally invested in your sons life. Nothing good will come of that. He's an adult and if you don't agree with his life decisions, well that's on you.


If he decided to deal drugs at the local playground and i don't agree, that's on me? I don't get it, how does one not be emotionally invested in their children's lives?


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> If he decided to deal drugs at the local playground and i don't agree, that's on me? I don't get it, how does one not be emotionally invested in their children's lives?


You don't see the difference between disagreeing that your son is committing a socially damaging felony and allowing him to choose who he's going to marry by himself?

As I said, I get why you're going to carefully state your opinion but at some point, you're going to have to trust you raised this kid right and leave him to make and own his choices.

I'm invested in my adult child's life...doesn't mean I make decisions for her...she's grown.

lol...My kid is very dominant (like her mother) and if she ever chooses to marry and I tried to get in the middle of it, she'd tell me to go pound sand.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> Judging is how we select our mates, why does it get a bad rap? Never said judging is control, but judging is right and natural.


Except it is not *YOUR *mate.

Look, all you can do is give your son some tools and then step back and hope he listens.

That said, I'm a big believer in telling my DD24 what I think about her business or her friends' business, whether she wants to hear it or not. Kids DO still listen, even if they don't 'want' to. And they'll remember your opinion, even if they don't want to.


----------



## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

I'd like to think that my adult son will still value his very reasonable parent's opinions enough to consult with us on such an important decision.

If you are truly concerned for your son this woman is not the right match for him, I would ask him for a private meeting in a relaxed environment. Tell him clearly and calmly your concerns and what you see as the consequences of his decision. Do this only once. Consider suggesting a delay in marriage to let time do its work (don't tell him this part).

After that, all you can do is trust you raised a reasonable human being. Love him and hope for the best. If they do have children, love them also.


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> Except it is not *YOUR *mate.
> 
> Look, all you can do is give your son some tools and then step back and hope he listens.
> 
> That said, I'm a big believer in telling my DD24 what I think about her business or her friends' business, whether she wants to hear it or not. Kids DO still listen, even if they don't 'want' to. And they'll remember your opinion, even if they don't want to.


Totally agree. 

MY DD22 knows that as her father, I will give it too her straight even if she doesn't like what I have to say. I owe it to her based on my own life experiences. I can be 90 years old and she'll still be by daighter and will give my opinion if I see trouble brewing.

OP, you need to know if your son needs the soft or hard approach. World of difference in how it's received.

You are justified to be concerned but be careful how you go about it. Focus less on her being Chinese and more about how he doesn't really know her yet, etc etc.

Based on what you said, she it textbook Chinese behavior. school -> career -> husband/family

If it works out, you may be suprised to find out how loyal they are to family. The Chinese grandparents if still alive will dote on the child like nobody's business....


----------



## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

turnera said:


> You sound like my H. Always judging my DD24's boyfriends based on what HE thinks they should be doing to kiss up to him or impress him or meet his expectations. Except they aren't DATING him. They're dating our daughter. FYI, I tell her to keep her boyfriends away from him when he can't control his need to control.


He sounds like me:grin2:

Just so you know, it's not exactly bad thing he is like that...


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> Could I stop him? I bet I could if I did something radical and harmful, but I'm not going to do that.
> 
> I'm not necessarily trying to stop him, I'm trying to educate him on how to make good decisions and maybe slow it down some. I have links to studies showing that 2 years of courtship are statistically the most probable to lead to success. Probably because one has time to start to see the flaws and all that, get past the chemicals.


I wouldn't get caught up with the idea of the whole 2 years courtship thing. When you get over a certain age, you should be able to figure out if you're compatible or not way earlier than that.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> Here is what a woman should say in her position to me, IMO:
> 
> "Dear Future Father in Law, I sense that you may be anxious about your son getting engaged to someone you don't even know in 5 short months, but here is why everything will be all ok and in 5 years you will be happy with your son's decision [fill in the blank with a believable explanation]"


This is the kind of stuff that a man used to do when they would ask a father for his daughter's hand in marriage. You know when the woman had no choice and fathers decided which man to give his daughter to. It's not Italy, 1820. 

She has no reason or obligation to say something like that to you.

For one thing, if she had, it would be demeaning to her fiancé, your son. It would be saying that he is not man enough to pick as wife. That he needs his daddy's approval. 

It would also be demeaning to her... as it would mean that it's a given that she has bad intentions and she has to prove to you, who has not say in this, that she is not a horrible person.

This is 2015. Neither of them need your approval. Your place as father/FIL is to support your son in his decision.

I can see giving him info as I suggested early. But you want to make this all about you. Like she has to explain her motives to you and calm your fears.

Did you tell her of your fears and the motives that you have assigned to her?



NCC1701 said:


> Instead all I got was details of her grand plan for herself.


A lot of people talk about themselves when they are nervous. They just start talking and do not stop.

Or maybe she thought that it was a good idea to tell you about herself so that you would know who your son is marrying. 

I would be very pleased for a future DIL/SIL to tell me about themselves, their accomplishments and their goals. That would help me get to know them. On top of that I would have shared similar info about myself with the future DIL/SIL. 

I guess you really do not care to get to know who she is.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> thanks for the thoughtfulness.
> 
> I know two of her motives for sure, she has stated them.
> 
> she wants 2 kids, she wants to be a citizen


When my grand father came to the USA before WWI, he had to motives. He wanted to be a citizen and have a family.

He met my grandmother and married her. So he got his citizenship and his got a family.. a wife and 5 daughters. 

And he got a wonderful wife. She got a wonderful husband. They married when he as 19 and she was 15. They were married until the day he died at age 75.

What she wants is not a horrible thing and it does no mean that she is using your son.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Being sure of yourself and what you want in life is a great way to avoid misunderstandings in a marriage. Many relationships break up for the simple fact that these questions weren't answered prior to the wedding. 

My DH asked if I wanted kids on our first date. If I had your opinion about it, I would've disliked his forwardness and that would've been that. Instead, I appreciated his honesty and forthrightness. The woman you talk about is 31 so she has had plenty of time to figure out what she wants in life, and is smart enough not to waste time on someone who doesn't want the same things.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> I would make the attempt to try and learn first what might impress my future father in law either by asking the son or by reading. She knows I am not chinese.
> 
> She didnt give much time to fertility, seemed to be assumed. Excessive time on her future career plans (MBA, own her own business, get rich I guess). She waved off child rearing by saying she would find a chinese nanny and pay her under the table. Had she cared to ask me about it for instance, I'd rather my grandkids were raised by her at home, I'm not impressed by her plans to be a dual career power couple. I'm not into status.


Wow, you are going to alienate your son with this attitude.

Why would she ask you how you think she should raise her own children?

As a woman who did what she is saying.. except for the Chinese nanny.. but I did have help.. it's worked out just fine.

My son has double degrees in physics and applied mathematics. He's now in grad school working on an MS in Physics. He's a happy, well adjusted wonderful young man.

A dual career couple is not necessarily about status. It's about two people doing what they want with their lives. It has it's benefits.

If your son becomes disabled or loses a job along the way, she can support him and the children.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> Judging is how we select our mates, why does it get a bad rap? Never said judging is control, but judging is right and natural.


But you are not selecting her as your mate. 

While I understand your basic concerns, I also think that you are making some pretty mean spirited assumptions about her.



NCC1701 said:


> Key question, does her agenda mean also making my son's agenda come true? or is it all for herself? I dont know


I suppose you could have actually asked her that when you were talking to her.

Why wouldn't she want to support your son's life plans? If she is married to him with children, then his success would be very important to her.

Millions of women do this today. 40% of married women earn more than their husbands. This is normal. 



NCC1701 said:


> I have to think deeply about the mother part, she controlled via passive agressive to some degree. This lady appears to be outright domineering. They are not alike.


I get the impression that you just do not like the idea of a women who is well educated and has a desire to have a career, be married and have children.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

NCC1701 said:


> If he decided to deal drugs at the local playground and i don't agree, that's on me? I don't get it, how does one not be emotionally invested in their children's lives?


He is an adult. If he decided to deal drugs on the local playground, there is little you can do about it as his father.

1. Your choices are to become co-dependent and overly invested in trying to talk sense into him. (worst choice)

2. Turn him into the police. (at least he would not be dealing for a few hours. But most likely he would be back out on the street in a few days.)

3. Use tough love and tell him that you don't want to see him until he's been clean and out of the drug business for 2 years (best choice) 

See you have zero control over his choices. 

How do you not get overly caught up in your child's life? You back up a bit and treat him like the adult he is.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EnigmaGirl said:


> You don't see the difference between disagreeing that your son is committing a socially damaging felony and allowing him to choose who he's going to marry by himself?
> 
> As I said, I get why you're going to carefully state your opinion but at some point, you're going to have to trust you raised this kid right and leave him to make and own his choices.
> 
> ...


I keep saying it, people keep ignoring me anyway, this is not about 'allowing', this is about my opinion and as you said how I am going to state it.

If your daughter decided to marry a convicted sex offender, you would give it thumbs up?


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> This is the kind of stuff that a man used to do when they would ask a father for his daughter's hand in marriage. You know when the woman had no choice and fathers decided which man to give his daughter to. It's not Italy, 1820.
> 
> She has no reason or obligation to say something like that to you.
> 
> ...


are you a man hater? what do you mean she has no reason to explain why I should not worry, you act as if my feelings do not matter at all and that the woman should in fact have to do nothing to impress her in laws, while he was subjected to her parents approval. I'm sorry, but I will decide 'my place', and yes my feelings matter. 

She did tell me about herself, she told me she is a very self centered woman who has a high chance of using my son, then treating him like **** when she gets what she wants (citizenship and kids). It happens all the time.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

Personal said:


> By all means state your opinion, just be very wary of being too insistent and restating your opinion or rewording the same opinion more than once.


This tread is getting too long, people act as if my posting here is just like talking to my son. I said my only purpose here is to check out what others think and evaluate my opinion.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

breeze said:


> I wouldn't get caught up with the idea of the whole 2 years courtship thing. When you get over a certain age, you should be able to figure out if you're compatible or not way earlier than that.


do you have any evidence? I have have all sorts that you are wrong and that 4 months is not a good idea.


----------



## NCC1701 (Jul 12, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> But you are not selecting her as your mate.
> 
> While I understand your basic concerns, I also think that you are making some pretty mean spirited assumptions about her.
> 
> ...


Kids bring prospective mates to family for approval all the time, they do it in China. I'm kind of resenting your attitude that my approval is not worthy. Her parents got to approve/disapprove but I don't, I see. 

If you think that foreign nationals never use men and marriage as a way to get citizenship, you don't know much about life. Yes I could have just asked her, but what's the point, if she is actually doing that then she would never admit it.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> do you have any evidence? I have have all sorts that you are wrong and that 4 months is not a good idea.


Sure, I am my own evidence. Imo, if a person is over 25 and it takes them more than 6 months to know whether or not the person they are with is the one for them, they aren't paying enough attention. If they make the wrong choice after that point, it's usually not because the other person didn't give them enough information, but because they ignored the information they were given.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NCC1701 said:


> are you a man hater? what do you mean she has no reason to explain why I should not worry, you act as if my feelings do not matter at all and that the woman should in fact have to do nothing to impress her in laws, while he was subjected to her parents approval. I'm sorry, but I will decide 'my place', and yes my feelings matter.


What century are you from? 

Your son is 26. I'm 57 and I can recall only one single person in my lifetime who talked to the parents before getting engaged. And that couple still lives in the 50's in their heads anyway.

Are you this combative IRL? If so, I doubt your son has any intention of listening to your opinion.

fwiw, I agree that 4 months is too soon and that she probably is looking for a green card. BUT that doesn't necessarily mean they don't love each other or aren't good for each other. Your son is a timid person; they often DO seek out strong women, for the balance.


----------



## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> If your daughter decided to marry a convicted sex offender, you would give it thumbs up?


You keep equating this scenario with serious criminal felonies which is kind of illuminating about where your head is.

Look I've stated several times that there is nothing wrong with you tactfully stating your opinion...as long as you recognize that it could have severe long-term consequences if you do it the wrong way. And that includes damaging relationships with not only your son and his new wife but their children. That's why I simply mentioned you should tread lightly.

He is an adult...he's not committing a crime. She's an adult, she's not committing a crime. No one is selling drugs on a playground or committing child sexual offences. They just want to get married to each other. And the fact of the matter is its pretty common for kids to marry people that the parents aren't totally infatuated with.

Anyway, do whatever you want to do. You clearly don't get that you can't control this situation and are going to attempt it anyway. Good luck.


----------



## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

sapientia said:


> I'd like to think that my adult son will still value his very reasonable parent's opinions enough to consult with us on such an important decision.
> 
> If you are truly concerned for your son this woman is not the right match for him, I would ask him for a private meeting in a relaxed environment. Tell him clearly and calmly your concerns and what you see as the consequences of his decision. Do this only once. Consider suggesting a delay in marriage to let time do its work (don't tell him this part).
> 
> After that, all you can do is trust you raised a reasonable human being. Love him and hope for the best. If they do have children, love them also.


Didn't you say you are looking for reasonable responses? Here you go^.

Not sure why you continue to argue with people. You know your son and this woman better than any of us. Trust your judgement.


----------

