# When is enough enough?



## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

Hi guys, new to this forum, so thanks for listening and look forward to hearing your thoughts...

I would love some feedback regarding when enough is enough..

We are currently in a trial separation after 20 years together (17 married). 2 school age kids and a mortgage.

H is a recent ex-pothead with half treated depression/anxiety/PTSD. He smoked for entire length of marriage. Now this is not about the pot or judging him, as my behaviour has also not been anywhere near perfect, including EAs. I could spend a full day listing out all the challenges/mistakes/things that have happened to each of us, but that is for another time....needless to day there is lots and lots of baggage after 20 years.

We are into the 6th month of this separation, extended from the original 3 months. During that initial 3 months, my father in law passed away (he had been ill the entire time I have known H). 

I told H just over 12 months ago, he had a choice, lose the weed or lose me as I could no longer accept his disengagement from me and the kids. He has basically been clean (couple of minor lapses but always back on the wagon) for 9 months. 

He has been trying to get help for his poor mental health on and off for all this time, but has yet to find one he gels with. I started my own therapy (as a precaution as I hadsuffered Post natal depression) for the past year.

Basically what I want to know/seek advice about is

1. How long do you keep working at things to try and get them right? We have been in marriage counselling for more than 6 months. We communicate better and are trying our best to reconcile yet I still sense things are not gelling. 

2. Men,this one is for you....what would you mean if you said you felt you were fighting a losing battle? :scratchhead: This is a repeated comment and I know that if I ask him to clarify, it mainlines to his fear (and therefore a potential scene). I know I should ask him the context of the comment....but some input would help to see inside a man's mind on this one.

Well there you have a snapshot of some of my mess. Where am I at? I suspect I am done, but still wonder if I have done enough to try and CPR this marriage. Your thoughts?


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## Softly Walking (May 4, 2011)

Weed is a highly effective treatment for depression/anxiety/PTSD - sadly most people believe the nonsense put out by the uninformed and never actually look into it themselves. They would rather pop pills that more often than not increase the symptoms and actually increase your chances of suicide. (3 of my friends who were non-suicidal killed themselves after using prozac) 
Fact is, weed kills no one and is non addictive - "happy pills" kill an estimated 45,000 people a year and are highly addictive. If you take pills given to you by your therapist ask your therapist what the side effects are - they won't be able to tell you because they don't know. Look them up online and it will scare the hell out of you. 

I suggest you really look into it - maybe the weed he was getting was too heavy on the THC side and he needs one with more cannabinoids. Google - great tool for doing your research - try looking up PTSD and cannabis and be prepared to be in for a shock.


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## Softly Walking (May 4, 2011)

Here is a link to start you off  

Marijuana may help PTSD. Why won’t the government find out for sure? - The Washington Post


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

It's a personal choice, if you no longer "love" your husband, the emtion is gone, you are thinking about other men, or you stop wanting to talk about the marriage, it's probably done.

The other comment I was told by counselling was to give it a year. If there are addiction factors or serious past abuses, it can take that long to affect change.

And there is also the notion that you may realise things will never be perfect, but positive changes towards the goal do count, most times. There are no guarantees in life. Things may change tomorrow, but figuring out your own happiness is something you can do. 

Best of luck to you, I'm sorry to hear of your struggles. I hope life gets better for you


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Going mental, I'm sorry you are having such a hard time. I totally sympathize. My STBXH (sigh) suffered from recurrent major depression, PTSD, anxiety/paranoia syndrome. We've been married 25 years with school age children. H was coping off and on most of the marriage and it wasn't bad. But when the illnesses went off the deep-end he became verbally and emotionally abusive and slightly psychotic. I had to trick him back on meds which have helped him alot, but there are still issues that will always be there. The children understand that Dad had depression and he didn't always react the way other dad's do. Sadly eighteen months later he is totally self-absorbed and still refused to work (more than two years voluntarily unemployed although fully cleared for work by the MD), refused to work anymore on the marriage (he didn't need someone telling him how to talk to me), had 2 affairs and we are splitting. Enough was enough for me. Mental illness changes thought process more than people realize. No one else can tell you when you have had enough. For me, I could hold everything together when I thought there was a light at then end of the tunnel for us. But his affairs convinced me that he did not respect what was left of the marriage I was struggling to keep. It was easier for him to start a relationship with someone that he had never hurt, than to repair the damage his behavior caused. I already felt like a single parent. Now instead of arguing with me about not working he can argue with the judge. I guess I'm saying you will know when enough is enough. I hope your journey becomes easier with time.


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## Softly Walking (May 4, 2011)

Just tossing this out there but she's admitted to having EAs - hasn't said if he has cheated on her or not and to me that is a huge deal. MC should have started after her first one, not 6 months ago.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

SoftlyWalking, we are going to have to agree to disagree regarding pot. I no longer believe any of the counter arguments about pot - the psychological fallout of it is as bad as any chemical based drug and honestly the physical side was pretty icky too when he stopped smoking because he was such a heavy smoker. I have lived with this for 20 years, I know the realities of living and previously enabling its abuse. 

Yes, I have had EAs (2 in a the last 9 year period, one of those since the separation). As I said I have by no means been perfect, and can see how my actions have impacted those around me. 

No he has not had a sexual affair, but his other "woman" had always been the green stuff. 



> MC should have started after her first one, not 6 months ago.


We have tried all the right things, we even did a full-on pre-wedding marriage course. We had tried counselling previously way back when we were first married with some (now comparatively) small problems with our communication. We also tried again when H found out about the first EA. HE didn't want to continue, and instead buried his head in smoke. 



> The other comment I was told by counselling was to give it a year. If there are addiction factors or serious past abuses, it can take that long to affect change.


deejov, to clarify, you mean 12 months from the time we started this round of counselling, rather than when I gave him the ultimatum??

Pluto2, all the best for you. Stay strong, you'll be an inspiration to those around you.

Maybe I just need to give myself permission to do this and work up the courage to face him....


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## Softly Walking (May 4, 2011)

I am a long term medical weed user myself. On a bad day I'll smoke up to 10 or more joints - so yes, as a user I do know what I am talking about. Because I understand both my mental and physical problems I can better use what I need to maintain a state of normal. People don't become addicted to weed - they become addicted to the relief it brings. Weed contains cannabinoids which are anti-psychotic, this is FACT, you try and tell a medical doctor who knows his research that it causes head problems and they'll laugh in your face. Stress and unresolved issues cause a massive amount of physical problems, pain, headaches, stomach problems and the list goes on. 
Having PTSD myself I know how awful it is to live with and then to have your partner cheat on you is just too much. Read in the coping with infidelity forum and you will see the impact it has on a healthy person's mind - and when your WS down plays it like oops it happened - I made a mistake now get over it that totally doesn't help and yes it will cause the BS to disengage from the cheater. Think back to how open you were to actually helping him recover - actions speak louder than words and body language is everything.
Having another EA while you are separated would leave the partner with 0 hope of working things out and then you wonder what "fighting a losing battle" means. Man or woman, it means the same thing.
We use to joke my husband's "other woman" was the computer - on it every waking moment, it was his addiction - trust me, that was well easier to deal with than his EAs. Even if he was totally focused on his pc games his heart was mine, his emotions were mine. 
Ask yourself this - which would you truly have preferred, him not smoking weed and having an EA and all the happy happy joy joy that comes with - or his smoking? 

So did your second EA happen before or after his dad died and did you fess up to that one as well?


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

The second EA happened very recently, and it was THE turning point in getting serious about reconciliation. We continue to discuss it, and we are both being as open as possible about resolving the reasons behind (both his issues and mine). Fact is we are both responsible in different ways for this mess we are now in.

I would have posted in the infidelity section, if I'd wanted a bollocking about EAs. I came to this section because since that time, and whilst I try my hardest to revive and contribute 100% to reconnecting to my H, working on my ****, the nagging feeling its done won't go away. I am giving this reconcilition every spare ounce of emotional energy and then some. I am asking how do I get in touch with what is the right decision to make??


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

I have not seen anyone address this point "what would you mean if you said you felt you were fighting a losing battle?" Although I am NOT a man, the answer is the same for women. It means that he (like you) has serious doubts about whether you 2 can save your marriage. Despite all the efforts he is making (and you are making), the progress towards a better marriage is either too slow or the results are too small considering the effort you 2 are putting into the marriage salvation effort. (Not MY opinion, just telling you what the idiom means in your case.)

Example: You want to dig a huge hole on the beach near the waterline so you can erect a huge sandcastle. But the waves keep coming in too close and erasing your efforts. You can dig faster. You can get a larger shovel. You can get a backhoe. But, no matter what you do you cannot keep the waves from crashing into your would-be sand castle. You are BATTLING the sea. It is a LOSING BATTLE. Nothing you do will get you the results you want because the sea is too powerful against you.

In your first post you said you suspect you are done. In your most recent post you asked how to get in touch with the right decision. You will get in touch with the right decision by continuing to live your life in your home with your husband. Whether the ultimate decision is to continue MC or to divorce, it will be arrived at as a function of living your everyday lives. If you are going to divorce, then a day, a moment, a point in time will arrive (maybe a day like any other day OR maybe precipitated by a major event; an affair, an argument, an overdue bill) and you (or your husband) will KNOW that it is time to end the marriage. You (or your husband) will KNOW WITH CERTAINTY that you are done. That you are unwilling to continue. That nothing; no person, no action, no circumstance is going to make you want to continue on because you are past caring about making the marriage work. When will that day come? Who knows? Maybe never, maybe in 2 wks, maybe in 3 mos, maybe in 1 year. But believe me, there is NO MISTAKING it. 

Hope this helps! Am wishing you peace and joy in your life wherever you find it.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

Thank you SlowlyGettingWiser, that is exactly the feedback I needed...some clarity. Ok so I haven't had that feeling yet...that KNOWING. Its been so close I could taste it but as yet (if ever) its still out of reach. This encourages me to continue on. Deep down that tells me there is some dance left in this tango yet. That I am not yet ready to concede defeat.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Good going, girl!

SORRY... when I said 'continue to live your life in your home with your husband' I didn't remember that you are separated. What I should have said is continue to live your everyday lives the way you are now.

If you, your husband AND your MC believe that he should move back home, then that is your decision. Otherwise, continue to live in your separate households and continue working on your MC and your kids.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

Ok, so its been a while, and I have tried and tried and tried to save my marriage. 
We have been in MC for well over 9 months and IC for me for at least 12. He still has only sporadically seen a counsellor and has yet to find one - now using his nose surgery as an excuse (all overwhelming). Our reconciliation appeared to be making ground, but his moving back in has reignited a lot of tension/unresolved stuff (or more accurately stuff we thought was resolved,but it keeps coming up because of actions/reactions with hime being back).

Anyways, we had a massive fight on the weekend and he said that was it, and after previous experience, I knew he would come back the next day to apologise etc.

So since then, I know I have reached the point of no return. For all his efforts in fixing himself & working on us, none of the it is connecting with me. Its like the tiniest of flare ups of the dim dim candle in an oxygen starved room. Its not manifesting itself in a positive way in my life. 

I sincerely care for him, but can no longer help him on his path. I have moved too far forward. I am seeing my counsellor today to work through my issues with knowingly hurting him more/again, and being brave enought to step into the pain....

Sooooo..........my question now is how do you tell him its over?? He swings from being very calm and open to overreacting and emotional?? How the hell do I deliver this message??? 

I've delivered the news of a death before but this is different, this is my marriage death that I am delivering....this is sooo very personal.

I get what not to do...ie don't just walk out the door/leave a note/clean out bank accounts etc. 

I have some funds saved up in case it turns ugly (if it doesn't it'll go back to what it originally was - reward trip for weight loss/giving up smoking) and am working on all the 

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.....


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## bluelaser (May 26, 2012)

Going Mental said:


> what would you mean if you said you felt you were fighting a losing battle? :scratchhead:


Like you said context is very important here.

If it relates to his mental health it means he is close to giving up and surrendering to his mental condition

If it relates to your marriage it probably means he is trying hard to fulfill your needs but he knows he just unable to.


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## Going Mental (Apr 8, 2012)

> If it relates to your marriage it probably means he is trying hard to fulfill your needs but he knows he just unable to


I think you have nailed it there...and that is the conclusion I came to. My original post is quite old, so as I am now ready to face that this is the case, I think he is waiting for me to tell him its over. 

What I'm having trouble with is finding the best most amicable way to express that I am done.:scratchhead:


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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

I hear you, GM. 

I particularly identify with your 'dim dim candle in an oxygen starved cave'. My anology is that i have such a huge deficit in my 'love bank' (J. Gottman/G. Chapman) that the deposits that my spouse makes are insignificant- even though I should respond to them more than I do.

As for telling him... my IC says there is no 'perfect time' and that's true- but certainly some things should be right. No kids running around, not too late at night, not when there is a current battle ongoing ideally. (after all- you don't want him to think you just throw out the 'i want a divorce' in relation to whatever you are fighting about). You might want to consider a VAR or taping the conversation discreetly on your phone JIC.

I'm preparing for a "I need you to do x, y, z and if you choose not to, that will tell me you value 'a' over your family / responsibilities" conversation which could end up in me suggesting or even telling him we need to separate- and I've decided on two different days in the next five days that are the times for this convo to happen.

I wish you luck on this difficult step.


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