# Flowers sent to an Italian girl



## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Some of you may know, that I was once married to a traditional Chinese woman. The marriage was dissolved in Nov 2015. I've not tried to get anyone since. 

I was pining over my ex-wife for a long time (Oct 2016-Jan 2017) trying to remain loyal to my vows. So I wasn't focusing on anyone else in particular.


Around February 2016 - an Italian girl messaged me on linkedin - and as we are both freelancers in the same industry we spoke for awhile on that day at work. Talking about the issues we experienced with freelancing. I was a bit taken back as she was very modeleque and down to earth, and we did keep a conversation going for a few hours. I added her to my facebook on the same day and kept in touch.

Throughout the year we have spoken every other week - about work, feelings towards it, previous relationships, relationship expectations and interests. I find out she has a similar educational background to me and one of her interests click very specifically with one of mine.


Before Valentines day - I found myself ordering flowers for the Italian girl, to be sent to her new place of work (on Valentines day). It was a spontaneous act. I sent the flowers anonymously. The day came and I find out she is ill - she didn't return to work until near the end of the week - and was extremely happy to receive the flowers, but they were dying by that time. I had a 2nd batch - a different type - sent to her the following week so she could appreciate fresh flowers properly. She really liked them! I revealed to her in-between the first and second batch that I had sent her the flowers and she thanked me for them.


I am a shy guy - and normally I would think a woman like this way out of my league. I became interested though more because of our conversations and industry link. Its almost like there are two sides to her - this very beautiful modeleque high class rich life (she is well-off but possibly not rich) side to her - and this more down to earth vulnerable person. I feel there is a difference in life-style - and maybe I am not her type - as she may go for blonde, taller guys - whilst I am dark haired, stockier/muscular built.

Last friday I thought I should try and ask her out. Now - we have never met in person. I had tried to meet her for a coffee a couple of times before I invoked any change in our friendship - but she was always busy or had arrived home by the time I considered the invite. 

Maybe my first attempt was weak - I suggested we eat at an artisan pancakes restaurant - for pancakes day. I did say we could go before or after pancakes day. She replied "that's nice, but I don't think I am here for pancakes day".

I found her reply ambiguous - and an inclination that she is not interested.

I thought I would give it a day before replying back, and replied back - "sounds exciting what you have going on". I didn't want to sound needy or disappointed trying to give alternative dates/times. I felt best to diffuse any pressure - and tried to generally chat a little as normal. Found and sent a little video - of a guy who had made prepared a tiny lasagna with miniature cooking utensils (like a model house) - she found it funny.

I feel like my feelings have got stronger for her - and I am trying to just keep a level head . I have friends giving me mixed advice - and at the moment I am just trying to back off and assess the situation. She is 28. I just turned 34 - I am wondering if she could step up to the plate and review how she could be in being a partner. I do like this girl - and I feel I could offer her a missing romantic aspect to her life - I feel like maybe I've come on too strong and should make it clear about starting out as a more platonic friendship. I think she would be fun to be around - take her out to places and such.

Either way this is a big step for me - trying to invoke a potential relationship - after my previous situation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

A very attractive lady who contacts you via linkedin or elsewhere is almost certainly not real. Have you heard of cat fishing? My husband is a doctor, and has scammers pretending to be women contacting him a lot. She may on the other hand be a lady who has put a photo of someone else on her profile.That's common as well. 
Ask her if you can talk on skype. See what her reaction is. if she refuses and refuses to meet you then that is your answer. You have known her for a year now, and you still haven't met, doesn't that ring alarm bells? She is either not interested in which case why did she contact you, or she is a fake. 

BTW you cant fall in love with someone you have never even met. They can whoever they want on line.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> A very attractive lady who contacts you via linkedin or elsewhere is almost certainly not real. Have you heard of cat fishing? My husband is a doctor, and has scammers pretending to be women contacting him a lot. She may on the other hand be a lady who has put a photo of someone else on her profile.That's common as well.
> Ask her if you can talk on skype. See what her reaction is. if she refuses and refuses to meet you then that is your answer.
> You have know her for a year now, and you still haven't met, doesn't that ring alarm bells?
> 
> BTW you cant fall in love with someone you have never even met. They can whoever they want on line.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> A very attractive lady who contacts you via linkedin or elsewhere is almost certainly not real. Have you heard of cat fishing? My husband is a doctor, and has scammers pretending to be women contacting him a lot. She may on the other hand be a lady who has put a photo of someone else on her profile.That's common as well.
> Ask her if you can talk on skype. See what her reaction is. if she refuses and refuses to meet you then that is your answer. You have know her for a year now, and you still haven't met, doesn't that ring alarm bells? She is either not interested in which case why did she contact you, or she is a fake.
> 
> BTW you cant fall in love with someone you have never even met. They can whoever they want on line.


I know she is a real person. I've been in communication with her over facebook and linkedin - and can see her instagram and a reflection of real life events that occur in between.

I've known her for a year - but never pushed each other to meet. I am just saying I have feelings for her.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

zeezack said:


> Maybe my first attempt was weak - I suggested we eat at an artisan pancakes restaurant - for pancakes day. I did say we could go before or after pancakes day. She replied "that's nice, but I don't think I am here for pancakes day".
> 
> I found her reply ambiguous - and an inclination that she is not interested.


I think you misinterpreted her response there. It sounds more to me like she is saying she's not interested in pancakes but something more serious. I think lunch or dinner would be a more appropriate offer based on that response. When you do make that offer, pick a place that's in tune with her Italian culture.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> I think you misinterpreted her response there. It sounds more to me like she is saying she's not interested in pancakes but something more serious. I think lunch or dinner would be a more appropriate offer based on that response. When you do make that offer, pick a place that's in tune with her Italian culture.


I don't see that at all. I read her response and pictured her putting her hand on your head and pushing you back down into the friend zone you just tried to get out of.

A response of "That's nice, but..." to an invite out? Hardly expressing interest.


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## Keke24 (Sep 2, 2016)

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't see that at all. I read her response and pictured her putting her hand on your head and pushing you back down into the friend zone you just tried to get out of.
> 
> A response of "That's nice, but..." to an invite out? Hardly expressing interest.


I liken it to when I was dating my partner and he messaged me after hours and asked me to go to the movies. I had said "that sounds like fun but I'm not coming out late to go to the movies." I wanted more than that at the time but didn't want to say it outright. What I had really wanted was a netflix and chill session .

What was her response to your message the next day OP?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> I think you misinterpreted her response there. It sounds more to me like she is saying she's not interested in pancakes but something more serious. I think lunch or dinner would be a more appropriate offer based on that response. When you do make that offer, pick a place that's in tune with her Italian culture.


Well maybe - I have tried to keep a level head about it - generally. I didn't want to force a new event on to her or request a specific date/time.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I don't see that at all. I read her response and pictured her putting her hand on your head and pushing you back down into the friend zone you just tried to get out of.
> 
> A response of "That's nice, but..." to an invite out? Hardly expressing interest.


Well this is also a strong possibility too. This is why I didn't try to come up with alternatives. She rejected the event - with her reason she is not available that day. I've not tried to pressure her for a new date/time/event. Trying to play it cool - and keep it friendly. I am trying to see if she will initiate contact first.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Keke24 said:


> I liken it to when I was dating my partner and he messaged me after hours and asked me to go to the movies. I had said "that sounds like fun but I'm not coming out late to go to the movies." I wanted more than that at the time but didn't want to say it outright. What I had really wanted was a netflix and chill session .
> 
> What was her response to your message the next day OP?


I got off the topic - of an event - and just said it sounds exciting what you have planned. Sent her a small funny video of a person going to the effort to make tiny lasagna. Which she liked/thought was funny --- then she became busy in preparing to go out - girls night out.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

I think she is a very independent, Italian girl - and maybe had her heart broken - like me a couple of years ago. The girl is stunning and I feel she could easily secure a boyfriend if she chose to do so. I think she is very entrepreneurial, smart and ambitious.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

@zeezack -- If a woman is interested but she isn't available for the time you invite her out, she will almost always suggest an alternate time/activity. Considering that you suggested pancakes for pancake day or for another time (leaving it open), and she said she won't be around on pancake day and didn't offer an alternate date, I would say that she is friend-zoning you.

Considering that you say she is "very entrepreneurial, smart and ambitious"... I'm guessing that she's looking for a guy who is more assertive and confident than you have been with her.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> @zeezack -- If a woman is interested but she isn't available for the time you invite her out, she will almost always suggest an alternate time/activity. Considering that you suggested pancakes for pancake day or for another time (leaving it open), and she said she won't be around on pancake day and didn't offer an alternate date, I would say that she is friend-zoning you.
> 
> Considering that you say she is "very entrepreneurial, smart and ambitious"... I'm guessing that she's looking for a guy who is more assertive and confident than you have been with her.


Sure - back around November - she told me she needs a guy who is equal to her - confident. She said a lot of guys are intimidated by her. I wonder if this is also an Italian trait?

I feel my first attempt was a bit weak. I've not followed up to avoid looking needy. I tried to disperse it with some humour. She does get busy though - improv road trips and quick trips around Europe.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

zeezack said:


> Sure - back around November - she told me she needs a guy who is equal to her - confident. She said a lot of guys are intimidated by her. I wonder if this is also an Italian trait?
> 
> I feel my first attempt was a bit weak. I've not followed up to avoid looking needy. I tried to disperse it with some humour. She does get busy though - improv road trips and quick trips around Europe.


Quite possibly an Italian trait--but Italy is a pretty diverse country in and of itself, as are its people and diaspora. (Not necessarily in regards to ethnicity, but each region of the country has its own unique subculture, food, colloquialisms. If you are Italian, you identify more with your region than as an Italian.)

Unless she's dumb as a rock, and it's pretty clear that she isn't, she knows you were making a pass. Don't worry about looking needy. Just because you take a risk and make the ask, and then don't get a positive answer, that doesn't make you needy. Just asking a woman out doesn't make you needy.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Be direct. Tell her you find her fascinating and would love a chance to meet face to face, ask her if she would like to grab dinner or drinks one evening. So now you are being ambiguous, if she answers "yes, that sounds great", then you try to pin down a day and time by asking her what fits her schedule best, if she says "sure maybe sometime when I'm not so busy", that means she probably isn't interested. 

A pancake date? You may think that is fun and quirky and for some women it would work, but if she's as high class as you think that was probably an unappealing invite to her.

In the end all you can lose is an internet buddy if she says no.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Quite possibly an Italian trait--but Italy is a pretty diverse country in and of itself, as are its people and diaspora. (Not necessarily in regards to ethnicity, but each region of the country has its own unique subculture, food, colloquialisms. If you are Italian, you identify more with your region than as an Italian.)
> 
> Unless she's dumb as a rock, and it's pretty clear that she isn't, she knows you were making a pass. Don't worry about looking needy. Just because you take a risk and make the ask, and then don't get a positive answer, that doesn't make you needy. Just asking a woman out doesn't make you needy.


I meant - I didn't want to rephrase or make a 2nd event - that I thought that would look needy/clingy/pushy.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Maybe you can just flat out ask her if she's interested in meeting face to face? Hopefully she can just be honest with you.


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

And I saw a third take on the response: that she was out of town for pancakes day, and wouldn't be able to go to it because she simply wasn't around to do so.



Nucking Futs said:


> I don't see that at all. I read her response and pictured her putting her hand on your head and pushing you back down into the friend zone you just tried to get out of.
> 
> A response of "That's nice, but..." to an invite out? Hardly expressing interest.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

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tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Maybe you can just flat out ask her if she's interested in meeting face to face? Hopefully she can just be honest with you.


Well this is partially why I am here - debating it with you guys. I have asked in the past - before I really started to generate feelings for her - if she wanted to meet for a coffee. One of her interests - is something I am also pursuing - so I wanted/want to meet up with her to discuss it - offer her a bit of cash than just do something as a mate - to help me create a particular personal web project. She is a designer, I am a developer.

I was a bit stumped at her initial response - I was expecting a flat out rejection -- not my type, I got a BF, don't want a relationship etc.. I think she was really taken back by those flowers - and I chose to own up to them. She was actually ill -so I ended up sending her two bouquets. I had only planned to send one - so I suppose it elongated/hyped the moment/period.

I actually felt her initial response was positive -but then quite ambiguous - and maybe actually a rejection.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Ursula said:


> And I saw a third take on the response: that she was out of town for pancakes day, and wouldn't be able to go to it because she simply wasn't around to do so.


I am assessing this. I feel it strange should lie to me - be so specific about something like that - but then I don't feel it uncommon with her. I've tried to back off for now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> I know she is a real person. I've been in communication with her over facebook and linkedin - and can see her instagram and a reflection of real life events that occur in between.
> 
> I've known her for a year - but never pushed each other to meet. I am just saying I have feelings for her.


You have never seen her though have you. She may not be the person she says she is. Her picture may be false. Ask if you can skype or meet her face to face. If she says no then she is either catfishing or isn't interested. You have already asked her out a few times and she has turned you down. 
The phrase 'men are intimidated by me' sounds a little, shall we say, arrogant? Maybe that's her way of trying to justify to herself why she can't get a boyfriend?


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

zeezack said:


> ```
> 
> ```
> Well this is partially why I am here - debating it with you guys. I have asked in the past - before I really started to generate feelings for her - if she wanted to meet for a coffee. One of her interests - is something I am also pursuing - so I wanted/want to meet up with her to discuss it - offer her a bit of cash than just do something as a mate - to help me create a particular personal web project. She is a designer, I am a developer.
> ...


If she's wishy washy, then I would just take that to mean that she's not interested. It really should just be a yes or no answer. "Are you interested in meeting face to face? Yes or no?" Just ask this question in general; don't attach a date/time/place to it. 

Move on. For me, that would just drive me bonkers with someone that isn't able to just give a straight answer with clear meaning.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> You have never seen her though have you.She may not be the person she says she is. Her picture may be false.


- you are right - I have not met her in person.
- She may not be the person she is -- I believe this to some degree -- there are almost two sides to her -- modeleque/high class (very good with make-up) -- then more traditional Italian, family orientated - down to earth and business focused. 

- but I do believe she is a real person. Tonality, pictures, video with sound -- instagram, facebook, twitter and linkedin.

I feel she must get a lot of attention - from a lot of guys - but she is living on her own - and despite her success and beauty - maybe missing that romantic aspect in her life.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> If she's wishy washy, then I would just take that to mean that she's not interested. It really should just be a yes or no answer. "Are you interested in meeting face to face? Yes or no?" Just ask this question in general; don't attach a date/time/place to it.
> 
> Move on. For me, that would just drive me bonkers with someone that isn't able to just give a straight answer with clear meaning.


I do feel you are right - like there should be clarity. I only invoked this first attempt on friday. I sent her the flowers because I do like her - I don't have backups. I try and evaluate my feelings on things like this. Whilst trying to keep a level head at the same time - play it cool.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> You have never seen her though have you. She may not be the person she says she is. Her picture may be false. Ask if you can skype or meet her face to face. If she says no then she is either catfishing or isn't interested. You have already asked her out a few times and she has turned you down.
> The phrase 'men are intimidated by me' sounds a little, shall we say, arrogant? Maybe that's her way of trying to justify to herself why she can't get a boyfriend?


I have seen a few photos of here without make-up. She has felt anxious and ugly - when she was out of work. We do share similar vulnerabilities and strengths - like when it comes to freelance work. I take senior roles myself from time to time - lead teams - I have worked as a contractor maybe longer than she has - and tried to give her the support and bolster that confidence to ensure she always has work - and feels she can grow her career. I care about her. She reciprocates at least.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

zeezack said:


> I know she is a real person. I've been in communication with her over facebook and linkedin - and can see her instagram and a reflection of real life events that occur in between.
> 
> I've known her for a year - but never pushed each other to meet. I am just saying I have feelings for her.


Have you ever spoken to her on the phone?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Have you ever spoken to her on the phone?


No. I've not asked for her number. I felt though that the conversations we had - were very internal and honest. Perhaps I should have asked for it earlier on - it didn't cross my mind earlier on - but either way - I am trying not to bother her further - in any medium. Give her space.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> No. I've not asked for her number. I felt though that the conversations we had - were very internal and honest. Perhaps I should have asked for it earlier on - it didn't cross my mind earlier on - but either way - I am trying not to bother her further - in any medium. Give her space.


 Yes probably the best thing, she does sound a little confused about who she is and what she wants in life.Maybe she contacted you in the hope that you could send some work her way.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but just to toss this out there. You need to be very careful when you cross a boundary into a persons professional life. Getting flowers at work from an anonymous source could very have offended her or put her in an uncomfortable position. That even goes to emails and such, many work places monitor their employees office emails.

Honestly the more you have written the more I think she has just been doing some friendly networking, nothing you have said makes me think she is interested romantically.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Yes probably the best thing, she does sound a little confused about who she is and what she wants in life.Maybe she contacted you in the hope that you could send some work her way.


She contacted me - after I made an update on linkedin when I was looking for work and had my contract revoked by the company she was in an interview process for. She has tried to send me job posts in the past to help me - as I have her.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Not sure if anyone else mentioned this but just to toss this out there. You need to be very careful when you cross a boundary into a persons professional life. Getting flowers at work from an anonymous source could very have offended her or put her in an uncomfortable position. That even goes to emails and such, many work places monitor their employees office emails.
> 
> Honestly the more you have written the more I think she has just been doing some friendly networking, nothing you have said makes me think she is interested romantically.


Yes those are risks and valid thoughts too. She did directly tell me she had started a role with this particular company. It was still a gamble if she would even get them - and yes how she would react to them.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

FeministInPink said:


> @zeezack -- If a woman is interested but she isn't available for the time you invite her out, she will almost always suggest an alternate time/activity. Considering that you suggested pancakes for pancake day or for another time (leaving it open), and she said she won't be around on pancake day and didn't offer an alternate date, I would say that she is friend-zoning you.
> 
> Considering that you say she is "very entrepreneurial, smart and ambitious"... I'm guessing that she's looking for a guy who is more assertive and confident than you have been with her.


Yes, to the above.

She may have a "string" of admirers. You are a "part" of her personal Mosaic Portrait. The paste-on type.

The Mosaic that she has in her well decorated bedroom. If you stand far back, say, at the opposite wall and look at the Mosaic, it is a man's face. An attractive man's face.

Moving closer, you see that it is made up of many faces of men. Yours' is one of those faces. She does enjoy your attention. That is the extent of her attentive needs. She does not want your 'manhood' standing at "attention" in front of her. The thought of "that" happening at your end of a computer screen or smart phone.....yes, big ego boost for her. 

Oh, she may be married or engaged. A form of mild sexting. Your words, her hand.....sort of relationship.

Whatever. Either let this non-relationship go..... or let her do the work. Let her make the effort. If she does, be encouraging but be elusive and mysterious. Spin a yarn with silk thread. Put a big flourish on the end of this knitted helixed rope. A French curl, a spun French tickler for her to ponder.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, to the above.
> 
> She may have a "string" of admirers. You are a "part" of her personal Mosaic Portrait. The paste-on type.
> 
> ...




"She may have a "string" of admirers."
^ sure I can believe that. But then - I can not control this or nor should I make it my concern - as me and her - have our own connection (link)

I'm an educated guy - youthful looking, non-smoker, muscular build - working on being more athletic, good earning capacity. So I can only dance to my own tune. I will try and approach her different - and will give her space/time - then trying to bother her about a meet.

"She does enjoy your attention. That is the extent of her attentive needs. She does not want your 'manhood' standing at "attention" in front of her. The thought of "that" happening at your end of a computer screen or smart phone.....yes, big ego boost for her. "
^ sure this is all possible - I am now assessing her - and watching my interactions with her more carefully. Trying to see if she will contact first.

"she may be married or engaged."
^ No I don't think this is true.

"or let her do the work. Let her make the effort. If she does, be encouraging but be elusive and mysterious."
^ that is how I will try this.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Its like this - out of all her admirer's - I was the only one to take the risk/chance or gall to send her flowers. I did that with good intentions. I made myself vulnerable by revealing this to her. But it made an impact, good or bad - we'll see. Or mabye we won't see - and then we know her true colours/intent.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

ref: "The Three Faces of Eve" was a popular movie produced in 1957.

I am the "The Three Faces of Steve"

I am going to present the face that @EleGirl and @turnera begrudgeingly "like"............. Like, secretly.

I will offer another logical and rational take on the modelesque Italian Girl who is the same field as you. The lady that you communicate with.

Women in business-

Women in business are at a distinct disadvantage. Men can have friends in the same line of work. They can be friendly with these guys. They can NETWORK with these "guys". 

The friendly banter, the occasional email. The meet ups for coffee or beer, or golf, when in the same city is deemed OK. There are no strings attached to this camaraderie. Provided, no party is gay.

When women get friendly and upbeat, they are immediately viewed as being interested in romance. 

Before I retired, I dealt with many, many dozens of women sales reps. They wanted a sale. Not romance. Not to be hit on. 

Well, 95% of them. The other 5%? They wore short skirts, tight clothes, lots of perfume, open cleavage....you get the picture. Some would have done a lot of things to get a sale. 

I suspect your Italian Colleague wanted a friend in you. She MAY HAVE wanted someone to NETWORK with. She wanted a friend. Who does not need more friends? 

Men find it hard to separate the women from the body. They just DO!

Me, I would keep her as a friend. Friends are like gold. Hard to obtain. 

True, and golden friends never lose their luster. Luster......... Lust Her. Stop the lust....be professional and be friendly. Things will fall into their proper place and their proper perspective.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> ref: "The Three Faces of Eve" was a popular movie produced in 1957.
> 
> I am the "The Three Faces of Steve"
> 
> ...


"Stop the lust....be professional and be friendly. "
^ I sent her flowers - and at best its very platonic. I think she is a great person - and would be interested in meeting her - if only as a friend. I do see there being more potential though - but then I would like to meet her face to face and find that out really for myself.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

The difficulty I have - is getting beyond the current form of communication methods. I don't even feel it wise to express my thoughts and feelings to her on that. At the moment - what I feel, think is currently a very virtual image of her in my mind. So I am trying to give myself time to assess my own thoughts and keep things grounded to reality. I'm a very thoughtful person - I wouldn't send a girl flowers unless I had some serious intentions - of being serious.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> The difficulty I have - is getting beyond the current form of communication methods. I don't even feel it wise to express my thoughts and feelings to her on that. At the moment - what I feel, think is currently a very virtual image of her in my mind. So I am trying to give myself time to assess my own thoughts and keep things grounded to reality. I'm a very thoughtful person - I wouldn't send a girl flowers unless I had some serious intentions - of being serious.


I would stop all contact. If she has any interest in you romantically she will let you know.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I would stop all contact. If she has any interest in you romantically she will let you know.


Sure. Well I've stuck my head out now anyway and dropped the hints. I am trying to assess now - see if she is interested in having a guy meet her mother and sister, or if she is more interested in instagram. I am hoping there is an inbetween.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Women in business-
> 
> Women in business are at a distinct disadvantage. Men can have friends in the same line of work. They can be friendly with these guys. They can NETWORK with these "guys".
> 
> ...


This is so true. Especially in sales, it's difficult to be friendly and approachable without a man thinking you are interested in something more.

If she needs a strong, confident man, you have done nothing to present yourself in that manner. If you want to meet with her, ask her if she wants to meet with you face to face. You cannot proceed if you have no idea what she wants.

Messaging a person for a year and never meeting her when she lives close to you is not strong or confident. It doesn't show an interest in deepening the relationship.

If you believe she is out of your league, she is. There is no point in taking things further if you don't feel you can offer what she needs. Wanting her isn't enough. You have to believe that you are desirable as well.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> This is so true. Especially in sales, it's difficult to be friendly and approachable without a man thinking you are interested in something more.
> 
> If she needs a strong, confident man, you have done nothing to present yourself in that manner. If you want to meet with her, ask her if she wants to meet with you face to face. You cannot proceed if you have no idea what she wants.
> 
> ...


- She is not in sales.

"If she needs a strong, confident man, you have done nothing to present yourself in that manner. If you want to meet with her, ask her if she wants to meet with you face to face. You cannot proceed if you have no idea what she wants."
^ well I have suggested it, once.

"Messaging a person for a year and never meeting her when she lives close to you is not strong or confident. It doesn't show an interest in deepening the relationship."
^ I am just saying she contacted me first a year ago - and we have been in touch since. But my feelings for her have grown stronger since the end of last year/start of this year. Like I said - neither of us really pushed for a meet.

"If you believe she is out of your league, she is."
^ she is very pretty - but she is also human - and has the same fears as anyone else.

"There is no point in taking things further if you don't feel you can offer what she needs. Wanting her isn't enough. You have to believe that you are desirable as well."
^ I feel I could step up and be more desirable - I've had issues - but I feel I can support her, but more importantly encourage her to flourish.

I can be a confident guy - I can take command and have had to make some very difficult decisions in my past, but even now I feel my justification was correct. I work in a very pressurised environment most of the time.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Be direct. Tell her you find her fascinating and would love a chance to meet face to face, ask her if she would like to grab dinner or drinks one evening. So now you are being ambiguous, if she answers "yes, that sounds great", then you try to pin down a day and time by asking her what fits her schedule best, if she says "sure maybe sometime when I'm not so busy", that means she probably isn't interested.
> 
> A pancake date? You may think that is fun and quirky and for some women it would work, but if she's as high class as you think that was probably an unappealing invite to her.
> 
> In the end all you can lose is an internet buddy if she says no.


My friend say something like this - that I should ask her out - for something like a cocktail bar. I am contemplating it though - feeling it may be prudent. I am just giving her some space/time to reflect for now - see if she wants to talk - initiate first contact. I am trying to assess if she indeed was busy today - it is possible - I think she went to some high-rise block in Canary Wharf yesterday night.

Trying to keep a level head - focusing on my work - doing an emergency contract.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

I think she had a traumatic breakup 2 years back. She had invested in this relationship - "made him better. Gave him career and changed his mindset" and he left her for another. He wanted to come back after awhile and she said no. That she didn't love him anymore.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

I have been interested from the start in her helping me with a particular set of web projects - maybe I could focus and prepare this - and then try and approach her again with asking her out - maybe ask her to join me at one of these cat cafes she spoke about earlier. 

This way at least I can set the tone and at least try and meet for the first time in a more casual place first. Try and at least talk to each other in person - with an initial and primary topic of interest to talk about. If she wants to discuss other things we can. 

Maybe the pancakes thing was too quirky and topical - and I think she is dieting too. One friend said about food being a bad first date - as people may feel less comfortable eating in front of others at the start.

I am keen to meet this girl - even if I tailor it as a more platonic thing - especially if she is not ready generally for a relationship. I could always offer her both settings - cat cafe or cocktail bar?


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> I have been interested from the start in her helping me with a particular set of web projects - maybe I could focus and prepare this - and then try and approach her again with asking her out - maybe ask her to join me at one of these cat cafes she spoke about earlier.
> 
> This way at least I can set the tone and at least try and meet for the first time in a more casual place first. Try and at least talk to each other in person - with an initial and primary topic of interest to talk about. If she wants to discuss other things we can.
> 
> ...


Did Cupid shoot you in the head with an arrow? Now you're going to manipulate both of your professional lives just so you can get close to her and work your way into a date? I won't say you're the first person to use this approach but honestly from the sum of all your post I do not think she is interested in you. You're starting to sound desperate and conniving, neither of which are attractive traits.

If this woman is as beautiful as you say she is use to men sniffing around her like puppies, she can see what you're up to before you make a move.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

What you have said could be a valid assessment.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Honey, you are a nice guy.

Stop over analyzing this. 

Simply say, "Are you interested in us meeting each other in person, or would you rather keep this a cyber friendship?"

Then you will have your answer.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Spicy said:


> Honey, you are a nice guy.
> 
> Stop over analyzing this.
> 
> ...


I do like that answer - its pretty direct and even has the additional definition of what we currently have. Its a bit deadpan if not straight to the point.

Although its a bit presumptuous - I mean after all - I was the one who sent the flowers - and I shouldn't enforce her to do anything at all - even thank me for it - or get a coffee meet with her - based on just doing a nice act.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

IF you stay away from her completely, you will soon find out if she is interested. Mind you, if she has so many men after her, its hard to know why she would contact a stranger in the first place.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> I do like that answer - its pretty direct and even has the additional definition of what we currently have. Its a bit deadpan if not straight to the point.
> 
> Although its a bit presumptuous - I mean after all - I was the one who sent the flowers - and I shouldn't enforce her to do anything at all - even thank me for it - or get a coffee meet with her - based on just doing a nice act.


I think you're going to have to be more direct and just ask if she wants to meet in person. The longer you wait and over analyze this the higher probability she'll say no.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> IF you stay away from her completely, you will soon find out if she is interested. Mind you, if she has so many men after her, its hard to know why she would contact a stranger in the first place.


Well - I am giving her space. I am sure many guys are circling - in fact - at least 2 different people tried to take credit for me sending her the flowers (each bouquet). So I know there are guys out there trying to take credit for other men's gifts - which is pretty weak, but there you go.

I am not a stranger - but at the same time - I am now assessing the friendship value I hold with her. We have been chatting as just mates - now and then for about a year - and we have spoken about personal details like family, feelings, even her fears about having children, interests as such. I feel this girl is interesting - and has an intelligent and complex personality. I'm not a stranger, social network friend or associate - perhaps. But I know she was very grateful for those flowers as a gift.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I think you're going to have to be more direct and just ask if she wants to meet in person. The longer you wait and over analyze this the higher probability she'll say no.


This is also possible - She picked up flowers last Tuesday - and we spoke briefly the Saturday just gone. I do think she has maybe taken a small London holiday - and is not at work - so she could have been telling me the truth about her availability this week.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> This is also possible - She picked up flowers last Tuesday - and we spoke briefly the Saturday just gone. I do think she has maybe taken a small London holiday - and is not at work - so she could have been telling me the truth about her availability this week.


Could be, but she knows that you're interested and hasn't responded. I think that she might be waiting for a more direct invitation to do something together. She did say that your invitation for pancakes was "nice". Maybe ask her to go out to dinner next?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Could be, but she knows that you're interested and hasn't responded. I think that she might be waiting for a more direct invitation to do something together. She did say that your invitation for pancakes was "nice". Maybe ask her to go out to dinner next?


Yeah I am wondering -- see - do you guys think a dinner is more like a 2nd date thing? I thought about this - like what if she has an eating disorder, diet, or not comfortable eating food in front of a person for the first time etc.. One friend suggested something like taking her to a cocktail bar.






I think whats been said in this thread is all relevant/interesting and conflicting points.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I would honestly just leave it unless she comes back to you. You have already asked her out more than once for a coffee and once for a meal, if she was interested she would have said yes. How may refusals do you need before you get the message?


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> Yeah I am wondering -- see - do you guys think a dinner is more like a 2nd date thing? I thought about this - like what if she has an eating disorder, diet, or not comfortable eating food in front of a person for the first time etc.. One friend suggested something like taking her to a cocktail bar.
> 
> 
> I think whats been said in this thread is all relevant/interesting and conflicting points.


I think going out to dinner shows interest much more so than just going out for drinks. If you want to make a better impression, take her out to dinner.


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## MrsAldi (Apr 15, 2016)

A good way to test online relationships, to check if the person is real, is to ask them to take a selfie with a piece of paper with your name on it. 

Also if you can't meet in person, there's always Skype and FaceTime. 

You've asked her out already and she declined giving all excuses, yet you've been talking for a year and she initiated first contact. Something is amiss here or maybe you just fill an emotional need that she requires but that's all she really wants.

Bottom line, if she's not meeting you, she's either not interested or she's a catfish. 

Did you send flowers to her place of employment or to a public place? 

Sent from my F3311 using Tapatalk


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I would honestly just leave it unless she comes back to you. You have already asked her out more than once for a coffee and once for a meal, if she was interested she would have said yes. How may refusals do you need before you get the message?


I've actually really only asked her out once - specifically post-flowers.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I would honestly just leave it unless she comes back to you. You have already asked her out more than once for a coffee and once for a meal, if she was interested she would have said yes. How may refusals do you need before you get the message?





MrsAldi said:


> A good way to test online relationships, to check if the person is real, is to ask them to take a selfie with a piece of paper with your name on it.
> 
> Also if you can't meet in person, there's always Skype and FaceTime.
> 
> ...



- She is a real person - I've connected via linkedin/facebook - and also seen other networks she has Instagram/twitter - there is a connection with real world events. Like sending flowers to her office - and then her taking video/photos of them. I know she is a real person - she also knows one of my friends that I have worked with. I've not spoken to him about it though - as I am pretty pretty sure she exists.

Sent the flowers to her work place - she really liked them. 

" if she's not meeting you, she's either not interested"
^ possible.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> I think going out to dinner shows interest much more so than just going out for drinks. If you want to make a better impression, take her out to dinner.


A place that does both? 
Home - Rum & Sugar


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> A place that does both?
> Home - Rum & Sugar


That's a good idea


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I think you should consider the possibility that she just wanted to network for her career, nothing more.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I think you should consider the possibility that she just wanted to network for her career, nothing more.


Its completely possible. I felt though that we had discussed enough on a more personal and interest level based to not necessarily warrant this.

I am hoping - that behind the make-up - and the instagram page - there is a very down to earth traditional Italian girl who has a genuine passion and interest in the same things I'm into.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> That's a good idea


I tried this.

"Lets check out this specialist rum and cocktail bar - Rum & Sugar. This Sunday at 3:30pm.
http://www.rumandsugar.co.uk/"

her reply

"Aw but I'm going on holiday tomorrow morning until Monday! How's the new contract going are you still there"


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

She isnt interested in taking this further.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> I tried this.
> 
> "Lets check out this specialist rum and cocktail bar - Rum & Sugar. This Sunday at 3:30pm.
> http://www.rumandsugar.co.uk/"
> ...


Who comes back from holiday on a Monday? OK, maybe people do, but Zeezack she gave no indication she would be interested such as "shoot, just getting back from holiday then. Maybe later in the week?" This is your second try, both times she has declined and neither time has she suggested an alternative.

You tried, that's the most you can do, I think you need to let this go.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Who comes back from holiday on a Monday? OK, maybe people do, but Zeezack she gave no indication she would be interested such as "shoot, just getting back from holiday then. Maybe later in the week?" This is your second try, both times she has declined and neither time has she suggested an alternative.
> 
> You tried, that's the most you can do, I think you need to let this go.


Yes she has been passive about it. Shame - just be nice to meet her for a coffee than just talk via social networks as a text buddy.


- My reply. To the point, but polite - trying to setup an actual written rejection - or more validity on such a rejection.

*"Hope you have a fab holiday. Let me know when you're free and I can take you out on a date to check this place out and see how awesome it is

I'd really like to meet you and get to know you - what do ya think?"*


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> Yes she has been passive about it. Shame - just be nice to meet her for a coffee than just talk via social networks as a text buddy.
> 
> 
> - My reply. To the point, but polite - trying to setup an actual written rejection - or more validity on such a rejection.
> ...


She's trying to avoid explicitly rejecting you to keep you orbiting.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

zeezack said:


> I tried this.
> 
> "Lets check out this specialist rum and cocktail bar - Rum & Sugar. This Sunday at 3:30pm.
> http://www.rumandsugar.co.uk/"
> ...


She declined without any sort of alternative date. Then she redirected the conversation. 

I think you just need to move on.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

"Hey xxx, that's all nice but you know I have a boyfriend dont you?"


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

zeezack said:


> "Hey xxx, that's all nice but you know I have a boyfriend dont you?"


Is that what she said to you?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> Is that what she said to you?


Just now. Yes. First I had heard about it.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

zeezack said:


> Just now. Yes. First I had heard about it.


Well, there you go then. Don't take this personally. Move on. 

Too bad she wasn't more forthcoming earlier. She needs to work on communication.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> "Hey xxx, that's all nice but you know I have a boyfriend dont you?"


May not be true, might just be her way of stopping any further date attempts by you. Didn't you say you message back and forth on FB? If she has her status as single and never mentions a boyfriend she is either lying to you or doesn't advertise having a boyfriend so she can manipulate men by using her looks, as in using her looks for personal and professional gains. 


I would just message her back and say "sorry, I had no idea, let's just keep it professional then". Then going forward keep in mind she is nothing more than a professional contact.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> May not be true, might just be her way of stopping any further date attempts by you. Didn't you say you message back and forth on FB? If she has her status as single and never mentions a boyfriend she is either lying to you or doesn't advertise having a boyfriend so she can manipulate men by using her looks, as in using her looks for personal and professional gains.
> 
> 
> I would just message her back and say "sorry, I had no idea, let's just keep it professional then". Then going forward keep in mind she is nothing more than a professional contact.



"May not be true, might just be her way of stopping any further date attempts by you"
^ just seems strange why she isn't forthcoming or why should lie - its ok for her to say - she is not looking for a relationship at the moment - or she doesn't share the same feelings. 

"If she has her status as single and never mentions a boyfriend she is either lying to you or doesn't advertise having a boyfriend "
^her status is single. Hasn't mentioned a boyfriend - maybe she was seeing a guy back in August? Strange why should wouldn't tell me this - when she got the first batch of flowers.

"sorry, I had no idea, let's just keep it professional then".
^ yeah I did that -- it looked like she was writing a response - then didn't.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

She has explained a bit more - that she had been keeping her relationship private. She is a sweet girl.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Welp, that ends that....


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Welp, that ends that....


I still think she is a great girl. She took the time to explain and listen.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> She has explained a bit more - that she had been keeping her relationship private. She is a sweet girl.


If she is such a sweet girl, what is she doing contacting strange men out of the blue when she is in a relationship. I think she is playing you along for her own amusement.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> If she is such a sweet girl, what is she doing contacting strange men out of the blue when she is in a relationship.


Right??


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> If she is such a sweet girl, what is she doing contacting strange men out of the blue when she is in a relationship. I think she is playing you along for her own amusement.


I think she only started dating this guy around Nov/Dec -- like I've said before - she contacted me back last Feb -- and she has always been non-leading on. I'm not a strange man, but a professional - in the same industry that she is in. I possibly expressed an interest in her too late, by the time I was developing feelings for her. 

I've had a very hard 3 years - I had an abusive marriage - and I was very loyal to my wife, even when the divorce papers were sent - I wanted to try and repair the marriage. Even back in October I was still pining over my ex-wife. It was important to me - to become a father - but I couldn't commit to starting a family on an unstable marriage. So I experience a lot of loss. 

This girl isn't to blame. She never led me on. I don't regret trying to invoke a relationship with her - except for the embarrassment its caused, but I do know this is a great woman.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

zeezack said:


> This girl isn't to blame. She never led me on......except for the embarrassment its caused, but I do know this is a great woman.


Hmmm... methinks I can see how you fell in with such a horrible woman previously. Please stay on your own for a while and work on yourself. You have a hairtrigger picker!


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Hmmm... methinks I can see how you fell in with such a horrible woman previously. Please stay on your own for a while and work on yourself. You have a hairtrigger picker!


I've been on my own for 3 years and been always working on myself. This was the first time I started to have feelings for a new person.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

-


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> I think she only started dating this guy around Nov/Dec -- like I've said before - she contacted me back last Feb -- and she has always been non-leading on. I'm not a strange man, but a professional - in the same industry that she is in. I possibly expressed an interest in her too late, by the time I was developing feelings for her.
> 
> I've had a very hard 3 years - I had an abusive marriage - and I was very loyal to my wife, even when the divorce papers were sent - I wanted to try and repair the marriage. Even back in October I was still pining over my ex-wife. It was important to me - to become a father - but I couldn't commit to starting a family on an unstable marriage. So I experience a lot of loss.
> 
> This girl isn't to blame. She never led me on. I don't regret trying to invoke a relationship with her - except for the embarrassment its caused, but I do know this is a great woman.


To be honest you know nothing about her except what she has told you. You haven't met her, you cant possible know what she is really like.
By strange I meant that she didn't know a thing about you. Its not something I would do, contact a man I knew nothing about.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Attention is attention. It has nothing to do with her being "sweet" IMO. 

She doesn't need to share the little nugget about having a boyfriend until she realizes you want to be in her life for more than stroking her ego. She's not interested in you enough to allow that. 

So back into her orbit you go!


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Satya said:


> Attention is attention. It has nothing to do with her being "sweet" IMO.
> 
> She doesn't need to share the little nugget about having a boyfriend until she realizes you want to be in her life for more than stroking her ego. She's not interested in you enough to allow that.
> 
> So back into her orbit you go!



Its not her fault. I had taken action and had started to simulate the possibilities. I was the only one preparing for a potential date to meet her on Sunday. I had invested in it emotionally.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> To be honest you know nothing about her except what she has told you. You haven't met her, you cant possible know what she is really like.
> By strange I meant that she didn't know a thing about you. Its not something I would do, contact a man I knew nothing about.


"To be honest you know nothing about her except what she has told you. You haven't met her, you cant possible know what she is really like."
^ I was keen to meet her in person and get a more realistic picture of her. 

"By strange I meant that she didn't know a thing about you. Its not something I would do, contact a man I knew nothing about."
^ it was a linkedin contact - being freelancers we network etc.. I thought the interaction was odd as it was more personal and relational to my issue at the time. But I've always thought highly of her since - in the background of my mind - I had hoped to give her some design work to help me with a project, so I was very interested in her professionally, but during speaking to her generally she always came off so polite and nice. She has such an ambition, passion and down to earth factor about her - it was easy to start feeling for her. I didn't feel or act on these background feelings until 1/2 a month ago. Then it became a hyped sense of anticipation (on my end) trying to follow through the steps of a possible heightened platonic, if not romantic interest. I am sure she has problems and I shouldn't place her on a pedistool - but you know I am a determined person - I know I would try and take the good with the bad.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> "May not be true, might just be her way of stopping any further date attempts by you"
> ^ just seems strange why she isn't forthcoming or why should lie - its ok for her to say - she is not looking for a relationship at the moment - or she doesn't share the same feelings.
> 
> "If she has her status as single and never mentions a boyfriend she is either lying to you or doesn't advertise having a boyfriend "
> ...


She lied because she realized you wanted something from her instead of her just taking from you. First she lied by omission, she never reveled she had a boyfriend, she appeared to be single. She does that on purpose so she can use her looks and charms to manipulate men. She will continue to act single until a guy pushes to hard, then she pulls out the boyfriend card, the boyfriend who may or may not exist. She is not the sweet wholesome girl you think, if she was the second you tried to take things to a personal level she would have said "sorry, I have a boyfriend" Did she do that? Nope. You asked her to meet, you sent her flowers twice, why didn't she say something then? Because she liked the attention and was still hoping to possibly get something out of you professionally, or possibly personally. And by personally I'm not talking romantically, I'm talking about attention or material things.

And sure she explained things out further after the fact, again that's not her being forthcoming, that's called damage control, she needs to leave you feeling like you misread things so she doesn't get outed to the world that she's manipulating her way thru life. She did a great job didn't she? You feel like this was all on you right? 

Zeezack you sound like a nice guy, too nice. Stop trying to defend this woman as sweet and special, she knew exactly what you wanted and she knew exactly what she was doing by not being forthcoming. You never met her or spoke directly to her, you have this fantasy image in your head of a sweet little princess when in reality she could be a nasty ***** black widow feeding on men.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> She lied because she realized you wanted something from her instead of her just taking from you. First she lied by omission, she never reveled she had a boyfriend, she appeared to be single. She does that on purpose so she can use her looks and charms to manipulate men. She will continue to act single until a guy pushes to hard, then she pulls out the boyfriend card, the boyfriend who may or may not exist. She is not the sweet wholesome girl you think, if she was the second you tried to take things to a personal level she would have said "sorry, I have a boyfriend" Did she do that? Nope. You asked her to meet, you sent her flowers twice, why didn't she say something then? Because she liked the attention and was still hoping to possibly get something out of you professionally, or possibly personally. And by personally I'm not talking romantically, I'm talking about attention or material things.
> 
> And sure she explained things out further after the fact, again that's not her being forthcoming, that's called damage control, she needs to leave you feeling like you misread things so she doesn't get outed to the world that she's manipulating her way thru life. She did a great job didn't she? You feel like this was all on you right?
> 
> Zeezack you sound like a nice guy, too nice. Stop trying to defend this woman as sweet and special, she knew exactly what you wanted and she knew exactly what she was doing by not being forthcoming. You never met her or spoke directly to her, you have this fantasy image in your head of a sweet little princess when in reality she could be a nasty ***** black widow feeding on men.



It is strange why she didn't tell me she had a boyfriend - when I sent the first batch of flowers sure. I just wanted to meet her man to make these assessments in person properly. I am not going to blame her mistakes/behaviour on something I invoked myself really.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cooper said:


> She lied because she realized you wanted something from her instead of her just taking from you. First she lied by omission, she never reveled she had a boyfriend, she appeared to be single. She does that on purpose so she can use her looks and charms to manipulate men. She will continue to act single until a guy pushes to hard, then she pulls out the boyfriend card, the boyfriend who may or may not exist. She is not the sweet wholesome girl you think, if she was the second you tried to take things to a personal level she would have said "sorry, I have a boyfriend" Did she do that? Nope. You asked her to meet, you sent her flowers twice, why didn't she say something then? Because she liked the attention and was still hoping to possibly get something out of you professionally, or possibly personally. And by personally I'm not talking romantically, I'm talking about attention or material things.
> 
> And sure she explained things out further after the fact, again that's not her being forthcoming, that's called damage control, she needs to leave you feeling like you misread things so she doesn't get outed to the world that she's manipulating her way thru life. She did a great job didn't she? You feel like this was all on you right?
> 
> Zeezack you sound like a nice guy, too nice. Stop trying to defend this woman as sweet and special, she knew exactly what you wanted and she knew exactly what she was doing by not being forthcoming. You never met her or spoke directly to her, you have this fantasy image in your head of a sweet little princess when in reality she could be a nasty ***** black widow feeding on men.


I so agree with this,what girl contacts a strange man she knows nothing about and strings him along for a year? For all she knew you could have been married or in a relationship.It was inappropriate. 
If she wasn't interested she should have told you immediately she knew you were wanting more. 
Just because a woman seems attractive doesn't men they are nice or genuine. It always amazes me how some men will let themselves get caught up with a woman just because she is pretty(and we don't even know she is using her own photos)and ignores the many red flags.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I so agree with this,what girl contacts a strange man she knows nothing about and strings him along for a year? For all she knew you could have been married or in a relationship.It was inappropriate.
> If she wasn't interested she should have told you immediately she knew you were wanting more.
> Just because a woman seems attractive doesn't men they are nice or genuine. It always amazes me how some men will let themselves get caught up with a woman just because she is pretty(and we don't even know she is using her own photos)and ignores the many red flags.



You have your facts wrong.

"what girl contacts a strange man"
^ I work in the same industry - and her very very initial contact with me was business orientated - as I had actually been on her network list far earlier like 2012 - but never talked until that point. I felt though she was very personable and interesting and added her to my facebook later that same day.

"strings him along for a year?"
^ she didn't. We have been talking for about a year since that moment I just mentioned. She never led me on - and there was never any direct flirting. If anyone that started flirting it was totally me - where I would compliment her on a dress she had worn or her hair. She would say thank you, and that was that.


"For all she knew you could have been married or in a relationship. It was inappropriate."
^ ok - so as I mentioned she didn't lead me on, ever - we did start to discuss relationships and I told her I was divorced. So as far as we each knew about each other - we were single. I thought she may have seen a guy around Aug-Sep - but it had fizzled out. So I had assumed she was single. But like I said neither of us made any romantic gestures - until I did 1/2 a month ago - by sending her flowers to her work place. She had told me she had started working at this place - and there anxiety about finding a job in early-mid January.

"If she wasn't interested she should have told you immediately she knew you were wanting more."
^ yes - I agree to this. Maybe it was a bit embarrassing for her - to be fair - I had sent the flowers - and then the only time I tried to invoke any kind of date setup was like last Friday -- 24th Feb - so this is where this forum thread began.


"Just because a woman seems attractive doesn't mean they are nice or genuine."
^ I've always thought she was pretty - but like many many pretty women out there and ones I network with - I didn't have the kind of conversations like I had with her. Conversations like - you do design, I need a friend designer - perhaps you can help me with this project - we can help each other in our defined careers. Then we started to find out we liked similar things - but I mean some very specific, niche interests and ideas we each had shared -- in relation to the projects I am doing as hobby. So here we have a very attractive women who has ALWAYS been polite, friendly and interesting. We revealed to each other our fears, desires, passions - and education and experience. 

"It always amazes me how some men will let themselves get caught up with a woman just because she is pretty(and we don't even know she is using her own photos)and ignores the many red flags."
^ listen - firstly she USES her own photos and videos - I am sure of it -- its a cross reference from several social networks - she is friends on facebook with someone I've worked with - so I can ask him and confirm of her existence and looks. What red flags were ignored - I didn't even secure a starbucks coffee meet with this girl to go over some design work - let alone take her to a steak house or what. I wanted to meet her in person to try and pick up on any and all red flags. I am an educated and cautious guy. I am young, muscular - full set of hair - considered handsome - I got my own business and money cash flow - and I am healthy - so I do what I can not to be duped.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

My friend - that is friend's with her - on fb. A guy I've worked with said these exact words

"She a friend of a friend
Don't know much mate
But she's cool
And hot
"


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

To be honest though - yes I like attractive girls - but I don't send out a mass of flowers to them - I liked this girl because I felt with clicked during the conversations we had. I've seen photos of her without her make-up - and I am not really a fan of make-up. I would be alright with her without it.

She is also on holiday - so I feel at least she has always been honest about her movements.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

ok, @zeezack, I'm going to be blunt about this. STOP OBSESSING ABOUT THIS WOMAN. You're projecting all kinds of things and ideas about who she is, and the fact of the matter is you have a crush, and it seems like a BFD because it's the first one since your divorce. But STOP. She's nothing special, she's just a person. She doesn't poop rainbows. She's just a person, another fish in the sea. And she's not interested.

She may have led you on a little bit because she liked the attention. Stop defending her. You don't know anything about her. You've never even met her in person. MOVE ON and stop dwelling on this. You've already spent far too much time over-analyzing her behavior since she declined the first time. That first decline without a follow-up for an alternate meeting on her part was her telling you she's not interested. You are just punishing yourself by continuing to dwell on this. Stop wasting your energy on someone who isn't interested and go out and find someone who IS.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> ok, @zeezack, I'm going to be blunt about this. STOP OBSESSING ABOUT THIS WOMAN. You're projecting all kinds of things and ideas about who she is, and the fact of the matter is you have a crush, and it seems like a BFD because it's the first one since your divorce. But STOP. She's nothing special, she's just a person. She doesn't poop rainbows. She's just a person, another fish in the sea. And she's not interested.
> 
> She may have led you on a little bit because she liked the attention. Stop defending her. You don't know anything about her. You've never even met her in person. MOVE ON and stop dwelling on this. You've already spent far too much time over-analyzing her behavior since she declined the first time. That first decline without a follow-up for an alternate meeting on her part was her telling you she's not interested. You are just punishing yourself by continuing to dwell on this. Stop wasting your energy on someone who isn't interested and go out and find someone who IS.


Yeah my situation has really only been brewing for about 14 days.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> Yeah my situation has really only been brewing for about 14 days.


Really actually like 7 days - as it was friday - I actually tried to ask her out for the first time - post-flowers. So you know - please let me quench my current emotions first - like letting go of my lost marriage, overcoming the potential for a new romantic interest, ambiguous rejection, rejection from "I got a boyfriend". 

I really see serious partner level feelings for this girl and took the courage to try and carry it through as best I could.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

zeezack said:


> Really actually like 7 days - as it was friday - I actually tried to ask her out for the first time - post-flowers. So you know - please let me quench my current emotions first - like letting go of my lost marriage, overcoming the potential for a new romantic interest, ambiguous rejection, rejection from "I got a boyfriend".
> 
> I really see serious partner level feelings for this girl and took the courage to try and carry it through as best I could.


You just need to chill out. You're going to have to ask out a lot of women, go out on a lot of first dates and get a lot of rejections before you find one that sticks.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> You just need to chill out. *You're going to have to ask out a lot of women, go out on a lot of first dates and get a lot of rejections before you find one that sticks.*


You don't _have_ to, but if you don't I hope you let us know so I can call you an idiot and put up my head slap gif.:grin2:


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> You don't _have_ to, but if you don't I hope you let us know so I can call you an idiot and put up my head slap gif.:grin2:


Its not about - going on LOADS of dates with DIFFERENT women - right - its about finding ONE you REALLY like - and THINK has good long term partner qualities in. 

I didn't make a bad choice at ALL. Given the situation - we maturely explained ourselves - on a very personal and private level - same as before. I didn't unfriend her, despite the set back of the situation.

I am disheartened that despite the crescendo in feelings and action - I've still yet to meet this amazing woman in person - if only on a platonic level to connect more in person.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> Its not about - going on LOADS of dates with DIFFERENT women - right - its about finding ONE you REALLY like - and THINK has good long term partner qualities in.
> 
> I didn't make a bad choice at ALL. Given the situation - we maturely explained ourselves - on a very personal and private level - same as before. I didn't unfriend her, despite the set back of the situation.
> 
> I am disheartened that despite the crescendo in feelings and action - I've still yet to meet this amazing woman in person - if only on a platonic level to connect more in person.


Why do that to yourself? Why put yourself under her spell even more? 

Also dating is a numbers game, different people have different things to offer, don't try to be super selective, just go out and have some fun. Every date is a different experience, you may be surprised who ends up lighting your fire. Think about it, how many times in your life have you met someone and barely acknowledged a hello, yet an hour later you're thinking to yourself how cool that person ended up being, or how attracted you ended up being to that person? Fill your calendar buddy!


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> Why do that to yourself? Why put yourself under her spell even more?
> 
> Also dating is a numbers game, different people have different things to offer, don't try to be super selective, just go out and have some fun. Every date is a different experience, you may be surprised who ends up lighting your fire. Think about it, how many times in your life have you met someone and barely acknowledged a hello, yet an hour later you're thinking to yourself how cool that person ended up being, or how attracted you ended up being to that person? Fill your calendar buddy!


-- I meant - if we had gone on a date - and it didn't work out. That's what I meant.

- I don't do gambling like this.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

My first girlfriend - actually became my wife - and she was a traditional Chinese woman - so essentially I've only ever had one girlfriend and that was a long term relationship of 10 years before she left me. So that should put some things into context about how I choose my potential partners really. Why I have a 7 page thread on a failed first date attempt.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

zeezack said:


> My first girlfriend - actually became my wife - and she was a traditional Chinese woman - so essentially I've only ever had one girlfriend and that was a long term relationship of 10 years before she left me. So that should put some things into context about how I choose my potential partners really. Why I have a 7 page thread on a failed first date attempt.


Then maybe you need to take a different approach, friend 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

FeministInPink said:


> Then maybe you need to take a different approach, friend
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Well I really did 2 days ago. I didn't even ask my wife out when she was a girlfriend - she was my housemate at the time - and it was her that invoked an interest in a relationship.


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## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

I mean by casting a wider net and not focusing all you attention in just one woman so early.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

zeezack said:


> Really actually like 7 days - as it was friday - I actually tried to ask her out for the first time - post-flowers. So you know - please let me quench my current emotions first - like letting go of my lost marriage, overcoming the potential for a new romantic interest, ambiguous rejection, rejection from "I got a boyfriend".
> 
> I really see serious partner level feelings for this girl and took the courage to try and carry it through as best I could.


Dude, she has given you every indication that she doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Sure, she's amazing, she's hot, she's perfect, she's real, she's the best thing since sliced bread.

But sorry, she's taken, or not interested, or not about to get involved with some guy she met on LinkedIn.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

zeezack said:


> Before Valentines day -* I found myself ordering flowers* for the Italian girl, to be sent to her new place of work (on Valentines day). It was a spontaneous act. I sent the flowers anonymously. The day came and I find out she is ill - she didn't return to work until near the end of the week - and was extremely happy to receive the flowers, but they were dying by that time*. I had a 2nd batch - a different type - sent to her* the following week so she could appreciate fresh flowers properly.




Two batches of flowers, sent one after another to a woman you've never met before, or have _any_ kind of established relationship with??


Screams "DESPERATE".


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

wild jade said:


> Dude, she has given you every indication that she doesn't reciprocate your feelings. Sure, she's amazing, she's hot, she's perfect, she's real, she's the best thing since sliced bread.
> 
> But sorry, she's taken, or not interested, or not about to get involved with some guy she met on LinkedIn.


Yes - we know this now. But I am glad I followed through. We also added each other on facebook and found out we share circles with a good friend of mine. So I was hoping that perhaps - if we had hooked up we could reconnect through my friend a bit more. Friends of friends.

"given you every indication that she doesn't reciprocate your feelings"
^ I felt it important to make a pass to at least invoke an actual meet - as opposed to keep chatting on social networks each week - each month. Be easier right? I wanted though to welcome a confident, successful and passionate woman into my circle - and really at least to see how we respond to each other in person.

Was there some attraction? In all the times we spoke so openly to each other during our conversations, was she always taken? Did she ever wonder? I didn't reciprocate feelings myself until 2 weeks ago when I assessed my own feelings on my overall interactions with her - and said - no I do like this girl - I want to send her flowers. I think she is special. Boom -- flowers sent - point of no return passed.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Two batches of flowers, sent one after another to a woman you've never met before, or have _any_ kind of established relationship with??
> 
> 
> Screams "DESPERATE".


As mentioned - I had only planned to send one bouquet of flowers ok. But they hadn't been put in water - and so after 3 days they were dying by the time they got to her. 

I was checking in with the florist - did the first batch arrive ok, how long they will last - I told them she got them but they were dying - and they gave me the option to send a 2nd fresh bouquet - so I said yes to that and sent her this time French roses - which she loved. I wanted her to actually appreciate fresh flowers for a larger portion of the week. So really its one gift. 

I have a good open communication with her - and as I mentioned - it was a friendly set of conversations only - but I wanted to see if its something that could be opened up into a relationship - I didn't know how I felt about her - until I made the choice to get her flowers.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

It did kind of complicate things - but you know - I don't think its desperate to send a girl FRESH flowers so she can appreciate them - because the first batch you sent were dying in a box for 3 days - maybe even more. If it was just a box of chocolates then I wouldn't have sent a 2nd box.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

zeezack said:


> As mentioned - I had only planned to send one bouquet of flowers ok. But they hadn't been put in water - and so after 3 days they were dying by the time they got to her.
> 
> I was checking in with the florist - did the first batch arrive ok, how long they will last - I told them she got them but they were dying - and they gave me the option to send a 2nd fresh bouquet - so I said yes to that and sent her this time French roses - which she loved. I wanted her to actually appreciate fresh flowers for a larger portion of the week. So really its one gift.
> 
> I have a good open communication with her - and as I mentioned - it was a friendly set of conversations only - but I wanted to see if its something that could be opened up into a relationship - I didn't know how I felt about her - until I made the choice to get her flowers.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


>


I know the approach was odd - but I saw it as a big step though myself to getting over the loss of a marriage. So getting the flowers for a new person - was a big step - when your ex-wife abandoned you because of cultural differences or had given you an ultimatum about wanting to have children in an unstable marriage. It was the first time I've generated feelings for another since my marriage.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

zeezack said:


> I know the approach was odd - but I saw it as a big step though myself to getting over the loss of a marriage. So getting the flowers for a new person - was a big step - when your ex-wife abandoned you because of cultural differences or had given you an ultimatum about wanting to have children in an unstable marriage. It was the first time I've generated feelings for another since my marriage.




Giving flowers is an extremely romantic gesture. It should be reserved for a woman whom you have dated for a while. A woman who *obviously* returns your romantic interest, and who has maybe picked up the check on one of your dates, at least.

Giving two bouquets of flowers to a woman you had only known through a career networking website for two weeks (???), is somewhat inappropriate, and looks desperate.


I understand that you are lonely and had a long recovery time from your former marriage. I'm sorry about that.

Don't compound the problem by bending over backwards for women who really, let's face it, you mean nothing to.

Save your flowers (and your money, for crying out loud), for a woman who has earned that type of status in your life.

Sending flowers to a stranger, makes the act of sending flowers meaningless. This Italian lady probably thought of it that way.

I'm being cruel to to be kind. But I'm trying to help.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

notmyrealname4 said:


> Giving flowers is an extremely romantic gesture. It should be reserved for a woman whom you have dated for a while. A woman who *obviously* returns your romantic interest, and who has maybe picked up the check on one of your dates, at least.
> 
> Giving two bouquets of flowers to a woman you had only known through a career networking website for two weeks (???), is somewhat inappropriate, and looks desperate.
> 
> ...



Your facts are wrong.


"Giving flowers is an extremely romantic gesture."
^ yes

"It should be reserved for a woman whom you have dated for a while."
^ life isn't perfect or predictable - I didn't think or feel this way about her until mid-Feb (this year).

"A woman who *obviously* returns your romantic interest, and who has maybe picked up the check on one of your dates, at least."
^ well again - life doesn't work this way - neither does the rise of emotions you get - when a day of romance is due - and yes - these are logical steps before you do it - but I felt we had spoken ENOUGH - and fluently enough - and had invested time in each other virtually - I thought well - we have never met - so there is a sense of mystery on both ends - as such could we or would we work as a couple. 

"Giving two bouquets of flowers to a woman you had only known through a career networking website for two weeks (???), is somewhat inappropriate, and looks desperate."
^ I connected with her - in Feb LAST year - so Feb 2016 we started to chat. So I've been talking to her on and off each week/month since. I had planned to just give her one, but her illness complicated things - so I don't still see this as desperate -- maybe it could have been really inappropriate - but I felt the risk if things turned out well was worthy.

"Don't compound the problem by bending over backwards for women who really, let's face it, you mean nothing to."
^ all part of life and taking risks and chances - and assessing if she wants to just carry on chatting online or if she would be interested in meeting directly.

"Save your flowers (and your money, for crying out loud), for a woman who has earned that type of status in your life."
^ It all sounds very logical and all knowing - but I decided to go with my feelings and see what the impact would be. 

"Sending flowers to a stranger, makes the act of sending flowers meaningless. This Italian lady probably thought of it that way."
^ I don't see her as a stranger - and I don't think she sees me as a strange either - we have been in contact for over a year.

"I understand that you are lonely and had a long recovery time from your former marriage. I'm sorry about that. I'm being cruel to to be kind. But I'm trying to help."
^ right - but your facts are wrong -- the 2 weeks time you have here - is really when I invoked the decision and action to act on feelings I had started to have for her.


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

Okay, best of luck.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Op, just wanted to say CONGRATS on getting back into the pool. 3 years is a long time (and long enough). Don't worry about her reasons. You took a shot and it just didn't work out. Stay professional with her and move on to others.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> Op, just wanted to say CONGRATS on getting back into the pool. 3 years is a long time (and long enough). Don't worry about her reasons. You took a shot and it just didn't work out. Stay professional with her and move on to others.


Thank you. This girl is special. I think I overwhelmed her a little; I've said my piece now - so I will hold off from contacting her, give her time to absorb what I had said. I respect she is in a relationship and told her I want her to be happy and hoped for the best. 

You need to understand that I still have my old wedding rings. One of the thoughts I was having about asking this girl out - just to grasp an understanding of my seriousness here was to consider the future point of selling the rings to settle down with this other woman. I know that's really out there - but its amongst one of the thoughts I had to consider switching gears.

I was foolish to pine over my wife for so long - I had been talking to this girl since Feb 2016 but only started to have feelings for her since the start of Feb 2017. I've been going over my past conversations with her - I should have asked her out much earlier on, but I didn't know or feel the way I do now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> Thank you. This girl is special. I think I overwhelmed her a little; I've said my piece now - so I will hold off from contacting her, give her time to absorb what I had said. I respect she is in a relationship and told her I want her to be happy and hoped for the best.
> 
> You need to understand that I still have my old wedding rings. One of the thoughts I was having about asking this girl out - just to grasp an understanding of my seriousness here was to consider the future point of selling the rings to settle down with this other woman. I know that's really out there - but its amongst one of the thoughts I had to consider switching gears.
> 
> I was foolish to pine over my wife for so long - I had been talking to this girl since Feb 2016 but only started to have feelings for her since the start of Feb 2017. I've been going over my past conversations with her - I should have asked her out much earlier on, but I didn't know or feel the way I do now.


Maybe stop over thinking it all and move on. 
Before I met and married my second husband I got to know 3 other men quite well on line and we got on great. Once we met in person there was nothing there, no spark. There is NO way that you can know anything until you actually meet. I feel you were almost making her out to be something she wasn't, she will have bad habits and faults and weaknesses just as we all do, on line people will project what they want you to know. 

Put it down to experience and move on.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Maybe stop over thinking it all and move on.
> Before I met and married my second husband I got to know 3 other men quite well on line and we got on great. Once we met in person there was nothing there, no spark. There is NO way that you can know anything until you actually meet. I feel you were almost making her out to be something she wasn't, she will have bad habits and faults and weaknesses just as we all do, on line people will project what they want you to know.
> 
> Put it down to experience and move on.


"I feel you were almost making her out to be something she wasn't, she will have bad habits and faults and weaknesses just as we all do, on line people will project what they want you to know. "
^ that's a fair statement. I am a really patient and tolerant person - I would feel I would try and work through these bad points and weaknesses. I feel that is what partially attracted me to her - because she has some insecurities. I started to feel protective of her, but could only offer support in a limited scope.

Well just going through the motions. Only found out on Thursday she has a guy. In a parallel universe - I would be taking her to a cocktail bar in 10 hours - to try and see if there is at least a spark. Feelings are still raw.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

---


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

No offense, but if you were telling me this in person I'd be worried. This is a venting board, but you are sounding very obsessed.


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## Betrayedone (Jan 1, 2014)

This is getting creepy..........


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

It was just a dream. That was the first time I've dreamt of her. I am sorry - I wasn't in the right frame of mind. I had put a lot of thought and hopes in this - unknowingly myself.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Dude...

Go download tinder, ask a girl to coffee and forget this one ever existed.

I've been where you are.. it doesnt help even posting about it. You have to move on, today. You'll only get hurt again. She isn't worth that.

Seriously, a nice guy on tinder, you have the world available. I'm living proof of that. Pm if you need tips on how to succeed there.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

MrNightly said:


> Dude...
> 
> Go download tinder, ask a girl to coffee and forget this one ever existed.
> 
> ...


Tinder isnt the place to find a good person who wants a long term relationship.


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## MrNightly (Feb 6, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Tinder isnt the place to find a good person who wants a long term relationship.


I will respectfully disagree and here's why:

From a ladies perspective, it's a sausage fest just looking to get laid. Guys are on Tinder for one reason right? (As you clearly stated above...) 

From a guys perspective, a high quality stand-up guy stands out like the Empire State Building in Oklahoma City... And most of the real ladies flock to them.

So, if a guy is a gentleman, and not looking to just get into somebodies panties (As our friend here clearly isn't) then, Tinder could be a goldmine for him.

I used Tinder when I was single to go on 30 plus coffee dates. It was a great app to connect with.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Well - it isn't about a dating app or anything --- I was talking to this girl for a year - and only recently thought to myself - I should send her flowers and I took action. Yes there are ways of finding a girl - what kind of person would I be - if I send flowers to a girl - open my feelings to her - and then just because its no can do - get on a tinder app to find a substitute. This is a girl that has issues with cheaters. Sure she is not watching me and I have no obligations - but there is a sense of high morals. I respect this girl more for creating boundaries and remaining loyal to her guy.

But this girl has some very specific credentials that I found out to myself I really value in a partner - there is a high value in my affections towards her. I've not invoked a discussion over it since Friday. I know she doesn't reciprocate my feelings - and how could she when she has a guy - and I am sure my reveal was a bit of an unexpected shock. 

She still has the flowers on her desk.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> Well - it isn't about a dating app or anything --- I was talking to this girl for a year - and only recently thought to myself - I should send her flowers and I took action. Yes there are ways of finding a girl - what kind of person would I be - if I send flowers to a girl - open my feelings to her - and then just because its no can do - get on a tinder app to find a substitute. This is a girl that has issues with cheaters. Sure she is not watching me and I have no obligations - but there is a sense of high morals. I respect this girl more for creating boundaries and remaining loyal to her guy.
> 
> But this girl has some very specific credentials that I found out to myself I really value in a partner - there is a high value in my affections towards her. I've not invoked a discussion over it since Friday. I know she doesn't reciprocate my feelings - and how could she when she has a guy - and I am sure my reveal was a bit of an unexpected shock.
> 
> She still has the flowers on her desk.


Are you by any chance still in IC?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Are you by any chance still in IC?


IC - instant communication?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> IC - instant communication?


Individual counseling.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> Individual counseling.


No. I saw one when I had deep depression/anxiety from my separation.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> No. I saw one when I had deep depression/anxiety from my separation.


I'm not saying this to be insulting, but I think you should see one and show him this thread.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I'm not saying this to be insulting, but I think you should see one and show him this thread.


Professional counselling is not cheap and its something that requires a dedicated schedule with a minimum of 6-10 sessions or so. 

Of course the option is there - but I haven't considered it, given its not affected my life (been able to work, sleep, eat...) - unlike what my separation did to me. I was very depressed, but never suicidal.

Counsellors would listen to this stuff from the "horses mouth" so to speak they would dismiss reading printouts of forum boards like this. They will focus purely on your feelings and towards the end of the session ask you to scale your mood, depression, suicidal tendency etc.. the session would be more on your feelings - and assess what is important, why this is important to you. Likely the later sessions would focus more on various issues that steam back to your past.

I would debate it with a counsellor - like why this girl is important to me - and maybe would come to an assessment I admire strong alpha female character traits.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

I mean will all due respect - I had made plans to take this girl out yesterday. So I am not really going to go on a rebound now with Tinder if you get what I am saying or book myself in for expensive private counselling just because things didn't work out. I've got self-respect and self control - I've not bothered her since. I have my own life to lead. I've said my piece to her and was honest with actual context.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

zeezack said:


> Professional counselling is not cheap and its something that requires a dedicated schedule with a minimum of 6-10 sessions or so.
> 
> Of course the option is there - but I haven't considered it, given its not affected my life (been able to work, sleep, eat...) - unlike what my separation did to me. I was very depressed, but never suicidal.
> 
> ...


A _good_ counselor will read it if you ask him to, and will get a lot of insight into what he needs to work with you on. Again, with no disrespect intended, I think you should take this to a pro. But I'm not going to argue further about it, I'm going to bow out of your thread now.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

I had the gall to ask out an amazing intelligent Italian woman. The goal of this thread was to try and assess her responses respectfully. If you felt your previous comment could be interpreted as disrespectful there is a private message option. Anyhow the ball is truly in her court now - I've made my feelings and intentions clear. I haven't apologised to her for asking her out.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> Just now. Yes. First I had heard about it.


Well that really ****ty. She was really leading you on all this time just to say to you now that she has a boyfriend. I think she has more than just a communication problem, she has trouble relating to others.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> I had the gall to ask out an amazing intelligent Italian woman. The goal of this thread was to try and assess her responses respectfully. If you felt your previous comment could be interpreted as disrespectful there is a private message option. Anyhow the ball is truly in her court now - I've made my feelings and intentions clear. I haven't apologised to her for asking her out.


 Please move on, she has a partner.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jb02157 said:


> Well that really ****ty. She was really leading you on all this time just to say to you now that she has a boyfriend. I think she has more than just a communication problem, she has trouble relating to others.


I revealed the flowers were from me on the 19th Feb - at that point she could have told me she had a partner. She had kept her relationship private - and still has to this day on the whole. I don't feel she was leading me on.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Please move on, she has a partner.


I said my piece to her last week - I've not bothered her since with it. I wasn't going to dilute what I said to her - which was some kind character boosting stuff - with friendly cat videos.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> I revealed the flowers were from me on the 19th Feb - at that point she could have told me she had a partner. She had kept her relationship private - and still has to this day on the whole. I don't feel she was leading me on.


She should have told you immediately you sent the flowers. She isnt as wonderful as you make her out to be. How would you feel if you were her partner?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> She should have told you immediately you sent the flowers. She isnt as wonderful as you make her out to be. How would you feel if you were her partner?


Well this is getting back into the realm of interpretation isn't it. She did set boundaries though and its not like I am her bit on the side.

It is strange why she didn't tell me when I told her the flowers were from me. Its odd she kept the video of her getting the flowers on her social media channels - even after I revealed they were from me. So that video is still up. She also still has the flowers on her desk.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

zeezack said:


> She also still has the flowers on her desk.


Ewww!

Unless the flowers you sent her were a dry flower arrangement or plastic ones, they would be pretty damned manky by now.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Personal said:


> Ewww!
> 
> Unless the flowers you sent her were a dry flower arrangement or plastic ones, they would be pretty damned manky by now.


Well - she told me that last Thursday.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

zeezack said:


> Well - she told me that last Thursday.


Why are you still in contact with a woman who ia a) in a relationship and b) lied to you about the relationship? 
You need to move on and meet a real life woman.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> Well this is getting back into the realm of interpretation isn't it. She did set boundaries though and its not like I am her bit on the side.
> 
> It is strange why she didn't tell me when I told her the flowers were from me. Its odd she kept the video of her getting the flowers on her social media channels - even after I revealed they were from me. So that video is still up. She also still has the flowers on her desk.


The reason she posted the video of receiving the flowers is she needs to advertise how desirable she is, she gets off on the attention. The reason the video is still up is because she doesn't have a boyfriend, she lied about that trying to get you to back off. Do you think if she had a boyfriend she would want him to to see that video? 

Given the opportunity this woman will take what she can from you, personally and professionally, but make this very clear in your head Zeezack, you will never every lay your hands about her pretty little body, the only person she is capable of being attracted to is herself.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> Why are you still in contact with a woman who ia a) in a relationship and b) lied to you about the relationship?
> You need to move on and meet a real life woman.


- She is a real life woman. The option of contact is still there, not that we have communicated since. A) yes so she is in a relationship and so what we have not crossed any boundaries. B) she wasn't forthcoming as such but she didn't lie.

Events only came to light about a week ago.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> The reason she posted the video of receiving the flowers is she needs to advertise how desirable she is, she gets off on the attention. The reason the video is still up is because she doesn't have a boyfriend, she lied about that trying to get you to back off. Do you think if she had a boyfriend she would want him to to see that video?
> 
> Given the opportunity this woman will take what she can from you, personally and professionally, but make this very clear in your head Zeezack, you will never every lay your hands about her pretty little body, the only person she is capable of being attracted to is herself.


"The reason she posted the video of receiving the flowers is she needs to advertise how desirable she is, she gets off on the attention."
^ possible.

"The reason the video is still up is because she doesn't have a boyfriend, she lied about that trying to get you to back off"
^ No I do think she has a boyfriend - she was telling the truth about that - I have identified him.

"Do you think if she had a boyfriend she would want him to to see that video?"
^ that is an odd thing - but then they are just flowers.

"Given the opportunity this woman will take what she can from you, personally and professionally"
^ well this is just back in the realm of assumption.

"but make this very clear in your head Zeezack, you will never every lay your hands about her pretty little body, the only person she is capable of being attracted to is herself"
^ I feel she is not as shallow as you make out. But again full of assumptions - based only what I have informed you about her. It wasn't really about me trying to grope her man - but possibly finding a life-partner.


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

zeezack said:


> "The reason she posted the video of receiving the flowers is she needs to advertise how desirable she is, she gets off on the attention."
> ^ possible.
> 
> "The reason the video is still up is because she doesn't have a boyfriend, she lied about that trying to get you to back off"
> ...


We'll I'm no detective, so my assumptions are based on the collaborative facts as you have given them and on real life experience and some good old common sense. I will rephrase my "hands on" comment to better address your true goal. I do not believe you will ever live happily ever after with this woman, and I do not believe you will ever land a date with this woman.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I cant believe this thread is still going...

THIS WOMAN ISNT THE ONE.... MOVE ON....


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## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Ha, for real.

You want some real advice? Send flowers to 20 women each day that you have never met or talked to on the phone with. The odds say you'll find the one and get laid eventually!

Hell, I didn't even charge you for that. Good luck buddy!!

Any chance you can post a pic of yourself so we can see what we're working with here?


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Cooper said:


> We'll I'm no detective, so my assumptions are based on the collaborative facts as you have given them and on real life experience and some good old common sense. I will rephrase my "hands on" comment to better address your true goal. I do not believe you will ever live happily ever after with this woman, and I do not believe you will ever land a date with this woman.


Alright


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I cant believe this thread is still going...
> 
> THIS WOMAN ISNT THE ONE.... MOVE ON....


Yeah well - some people do like to make assumptions and get their facts wrong, that's all pal


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

GuyInColorado said:


> Ha, for real.
> 
> You want some real advice? Send flowers to 20 women each day that you have never met or talked to on the phone with. The odds say you'll find the one and get laid eventually!
> 
> ...


Its not really about mass posting flowers to different women to get laid. I like this particular girl - despite the odd circumstances.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

zeezack said:


> I like this particular girl - despite the odd circumstances.


It's fine to like her, but she doesn't sound interested in having a relationship with you. Do you have plans/intentions to start dating/meeting other women? 

Uh, "odd circumstances" is one way to put it, I guess. But it boils down to her not being into you. How do you intend to proceed from here?


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I think that this was a step in the right direction as long as you continue to step! Now that you know she isn't interested, I think maybe you need to look around for someone who could be interested. I've read on this site about online dating that it pretty much is a numbers game. Get on a few sites and start up some chats. Enjoy the fact that you've finally gotten past your ex.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> It's fine to like her, but she doesn't sound interested in having a relationship with you. Do you have plans/intentions to start dating/meeting other women?
> 
> Uh, "odd circumstances" is one way to put it, I guess. But it boils down to her not being into you. How do you intend to proceed from here?


"but she doesn't sound interested in having a relationship with you."
^ well she has a boyfriend.

"Do you have plans/intentions to start dating/meeting other women?"
^ no - its only been a week. 

"How do you intend to proceed from here?"
^ no plans as of yet - trying to process my own emotions and motivations.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> I think that this was a step in the right direction as long as you continue to step! Now that you know she isn't interested, I think maybe you need to look around for someone who could be interested. I've read on this site about online dating that it pretty much is a numbers game. Get on a few sites and start up some chats. Enjoy the fact that you've finally gotten past your ex.


^ I'm not interested in processing the numbers - I'm not desperate - I only got to this step to think past my ex - because this girl I found to have some very particular personality, interest and physical traits.

Diane - is right in some ways about taking her off the pedestal a little - to evaluate her faults.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

I wasnt advocating that you just start trying to date anything that's out there. It was more in reference to the fact that if you do join those sites, you may not get to chat with all of the women on the sites . They may not respond [at least from what I've read]. Just suggesting a way to move forward.
In sure if you try you will find other women with the values and beliefs that you value.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

jlg07 said:


> I wasnt advocating that you just start trying to date anything that's out there. It was more in reference to the fact that if you do join those sites, you may not get to chat with all of the women on the sites . They may not respond [at least from what I've read]. Just suggesting a way to move forward.
> In sure if you try you will find other women with the values and beliefs that you value.


Sure - I didn't want to invest my time like this. This situation just kind of hit me. My way of moving forward is to continue with various forms of self-improvement.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

zeezack said:


> My way of moving forward is to continue with various forms of self-improvement.


Like what? Be specific.


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## zeezack (Sep 8, 2013)

Prodigal said:


> Like what? Be specific.


Well - like bodybuilding/power-lifting, career, book writing and film making.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Learning to flirt is also self improvement.


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