# Freaking out morning



## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Hey all,

The latest development is that I have gotten in touch with my anger. The love for my H is still there (this morning he called me his ex-partner for the first time) but I am so mad. He has been moving out this weekend, taking things that aren't his to take without asking. 

Acting SO FINAL about this, like "when I'm in a new relationship are you going to still think we can work things out?" ad wanting to just write me a cheque and be done with all our "arguing".


I get his need for space but today he said it's the reason for the breakup (reason # 7 at least) -- he never felt like he could have his own space in our home. Why didn't he ever ask?!!!!?

And he's moved into a communal house where there are shared suppers and so it's all cozy and homelike, and he says he can't take our daughter to school tomorrow morning (it the only childcare/contact he's had with her in three weeks) because supper at the new house is served early and so he wants to go to work early.

Talk about putting your new life first, over your daughter. I am SO ANGRY. 

Why is he doing this?

I have probably gone about things wrong, by being honest with him about my belief in reconciliation. 

How do I do a 180 with kids? It seems impossible to have no contact.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

A total 180 with kids is not really possible unless you go to a situation where there is a neutral place (like daycare, school, etc.) where one parent drops off and the other picks up. 

It sounds like he's acting like a teenager moving away from home for the first time. Don't expect him to say things that make sense. Of course you never heard about his need for space before -- he's thinking up new reasons all the time. Expect to hear more new reasons, too. It's part of the script, I'm afraid. 

Get to a lawyer and start protecting yourself from him taking things that aren't specifically his. Personal items that have any kind of value should be put where he can't get to them. 

Unfortunately for you and your (probable) desire to make him know what he's missing, living with a 'family' is going to make that a little harder to achieve. He's getting that need met by them.

Now you know that you've reached the point where it isn't going to benefit you to keep telling him how you feel, or what you were hoping for your relationship. You know you were honest with him. Don't regret that.

But now, it's time to give him what he wants, and let your anger carry you forward. Even if you have to see him, you can keep the personal contact to a minimum. Refrain from telling him ANYTHING about your personal life. Don't ask anything about his. Talk strictly about your child and your divorce. Don't be angry, but don't be overly nice, either. Just calm and as cordial as you'd be to a store clerk. You might have to fake it at first, but eventually, you won't be faking it anymore. You really won't care to know about him, or to share yourself with him. 

You can't make him a better father, so be the best mom you can.


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

angelpixie said:


> A total 180 with kids is not really possible unless you go to a situation where there is a neutral place (like daycare, school, etc.) where one parent drops off and the other picks up.
> 
> *This is what i did, I stopped having my STBXW coming into our house, I make sure the door is locked so she cant just walk-in.I started doing exchanges in parking lots, this has gotten her emotional a few times. And I ALWAYS keep it about the kids. *
> 
> ...


*
This is soo true, be the best mom. For men this makes us a little jealous, it becomes a cometition and it pulls us towards women becuase we want to do it but better. PLus it is a win win for your children and you.*


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

Lusy , he is saying/doing this things because he is confused and most important INSECURE ! 

Don't buy it ! Don't believe a word he say ! Don't listen !

Go dark completely ! Have family members exchange the kids with him ! 

Do NOT answer any of his e-mails, texts , calls etc !

One day you have to meet him for something !

Here I'll tell you what a men mostly HATE in communication with woman ! If you teach you self like this you'll kill him ! 

It is how you LOOK at him ! Look at him as he is a rat , or like your shoes just after you walk on dog s!it , like he is the most disgusting piece on the earth !

Don't talk allot, just answer with Yes or No but watch him with that look , that you just gonna puke because of him .

The result will be stunning !


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

> Go dark completely ! Have family members exchange the kids with him !


This is a great idea, for the first month of kid exchanges my STBXW would have her mom or sister do her dirty work. I think it is time i reverse the roles, and give her a taste of her own medicine!


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> This is a great idea, for the first few month of kid exchnages my STBXW would have her mom or sister do her dirty work. I think it is time i reverse the roles, and give her a taste of her own medicine!


She did that to you ? You know why she did it 

Lemme tell you then by my experience what woman hate in a conversation !

Woman hate when they talk that you don't pay attention to them !

The killer one is - as soon as she starts talking , you go ahead and check you phone for texts ! 
I used this on 8 different woman for the last 3 weeks and the results are fantastic ( last weekend did that on my GF and almost got a slap on my face hahaha ) !


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

BigMac said:


> She did that to you ? You know why she did it
> 
> Lemme tell you then by my experience what woman hate in a conversation !
> 
> ...


Yes, she did not want to see me after the very first exchange, she was crying and it was too hard for her to do it. Chicken sh*!

On our last exchange my STBXW even stated that i dont listen to her, because she was talking and i was paying soo much attention to the kids.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Yes, she did not want to see me after the very first exchange, she was crying and it was too hard for her to do it. Chicken sh*!
> 
> On our last exchange my STBXW even stated that i dont listen to her, because she was talking and i was paying soo much attention to the kids.


Paying attention to the kids = reason , you love your kids and it is normal you pay attention to them!

But checking your text messages while she is talking is a different thing


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Paying attention to the kids = reason , you love your kids and it is normal you pay attention to them!
> 
> But checking your text messages while she is talking is a different thing


Maybe the next time i see her i will make sure to have my SIL blow up my cell with texts! That would get the STBX fired up


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Maybe the next time i see her i will make sure to have my SIL blow up my cell with texts! That would get the STBX fired up



GREAT idea ! You need 1 or 2 only ! This is to show your STBX you doesn't give a damn s!&t about her and what she is saying - ie you moved on !

Do it and tell me how it was


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

BigMac said:


> GREAT idea ! You need 1 or 2 only ! This is to show your STBX you doesn't give a damn s!&t about her and what she is saying - ie you moved on !
> 
> Do it and tell me how it was


For sure i think between that and the having my mom or family do the kid exchange sends a message that i dont care about her. :smthumbup:


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> For sure i think between that and the having my mom or family do the kid exchange sends a message that i dont care about her. :smthumbup:



Yes, that way she'll start to realize she is losing you !

As soon as she gets that feeling fasten you seat belt , single live wont be attractive anymore .

Good luck and stay on course :smthumbup:


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## GutPunch (Nov 2, 2012)

I have got kids and am on the 180 plan. Choose not to discuss anything except kids. My psyche could not handle the emotional toll you are absorbing. I would crumble.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Well the day is done and I feel much less like screaming and pulling all my hair out. 

Yes, he is acting like a teenager. But angel, I think I always will care about him.

No, I don't have relatives here to help with pick up or drop off. 

But I did write him an email today explaining that our exchanges were getting too heated and that we needed to stick to email and phone for arrangements regarding our daughter. I went on a little about other stuff that most of you will probably think is too giving and open, but I think I have a philosophy about this whole thing:

Kill him with kindness. It breaks my heart to be distant and civil rather than telling him how much I believe in us. But I understand that I need to try that. Still, the kindness will come through in the letters I'm going to write him, in the present I'm still planning on making him for our 6th anniversary in two weeks time.

I'm not crumbling yet - I feel like I have too much love in me to do that.

I have been in touch with a family justice mediator and will plan to meet him first, then see if the H is willing to go.

I should also add that he has wanted to have our daughter more, but until Sat. he was couchsurfing and I've been reluctant to let her go over to the new place yet. So it's not like he's not trying, he's just not communicating to me.

Also one more thought on the 180 - I'm afraid that he's so insecure at the root of all this, combined with a very fatalistic personality (what will be, will be, just make the best of it, etc.) that if I turn around completely and act like I don't want or need him and have moved on, he'll just think, oh well, I guess that's for the best.

Why is our society so supportive of the "I guess it didn't work out" mentality?

It's infuriating. Time for a hot bath I think.


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## angelpixie (Mar 2, 2012)

Lucy, it's not just that society is accepting of that mentality. It's that you can't force your spouse to change _their_ mentality. There have been many on here, yours truly included, that did what you're planning to do. I never heard of the 180 til long after I gave up and moved out on my own. We had an in-house separation for 7 months (with the exception of a month or two when he was in and out, spending time in his office/bachelor pad having fun and entertaining), and I did everything I could not to push him away. I also felt like it was up to me to not screw up and drive him away. It didn't matter. He was on his way out. All I did was make it much more excruciating for myself, and make it easier on him. If you surf through TAM long enough, you'll find others who did the same thing. They were bound and determined to show their love and not be cold or mean. 

Nobody can stop you from what you choose to do, Lucy. But go into it with your eyes wide open, and with the realization that it may not work -- not that you just need to keep trying even _harder_ -- that you didn't do _enough_ to show your love and kindness.


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Angel, I can't imagine spending seven months in the same house with this dude. I am glad he moved out. I am pacing myself with regards to my letters to him. I just feel bipolar about it - one day full of love, the next, anger. I know that love can win out and that I'll be better off regardless of how things go with him. I don't want to end this all bitter and resentful.

Now that he's gone I can see things clearly, it's amazing. I'm almost feeling grateful he's done this - it gives us a chance to see things in a whole new light together. Of course, that hinges on his involvement, which I can't force. But I know he has it in him. More importantly, I have it in me. This process will make me a better person regardless of him. Cause if I can extend this love to him, I can do it for another person in the future, too.

In the end, I'd rather be proud of myself and strong and full of love, and disappointed in him for his inability to give us a chance, voice his needs, and be present with our marriage, than pissed off, confused and hurt. 

I've never felt so ready for this work. 

(In the back of my mind I'm thinking I'll give this six months, but who knows how I'll feel later...)


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Lucy, he NEEDS to figure this out on his own. I cannot stress this enuff. Having been on both sides of the fence i know this is true. You must ignore him. He will respect you for this. Time is on your side. He knows u love him that is the problem, he needs to know what life will be like without you.

No contact
180
Let him go
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Hey all,
> 
> The latest development is that I have gotten in touch with my anger. The love for my H is still there (this morning he called me his ex-partner for the first time) but I am so mad. He has been moving out this weekend, taking things that aren't his to take without asking.
> 
> ...




Space is prolly the biggest thing that drove mine away.
Girls just don't seem to need much of it. Every girl I've ever been with has never needed it but for us males,well me , it's sanity.
She seemed to thrive on fuss , everything somehow had to be said , lots , to get it done . She could stay squashed up on the couch all night, bumping into me all over the house or bathroom , it just didn't worry her .
She seemed to love all the talk it took to get the tiniest thing done where as alone l'd just do it - done.
She didn't mind me around while she was watching some show but l like to be left to mine, she'd talk all through dv's, shows.
l like some time to wake up or when l get home long day, she seemed to love bs'ing on when she'd just got in even after a hell day , or just woken up , she could talk and bump into me 24/7 really
So it's a weird thing between two people . lf l get some space l bounce back happily and love people round but if l don't get it l get sh$tty but she always took it as distant and wanting to be away from her.

My daughter had a big bike ride today and she made it all the way .
She was so proud she text me to tell me , L was gonna ring her later tonight to see how it went.
what would've been all fun talk after her day and all about her ride , back and forth all night in the same house , is now a text and phone calls and then the dreading " ahwell we better get of l spose " She's like orrr , why ?
Or last night - she says good night and then said - ohwell l guess l'll see you around hey dad.
l cried for 2hrs after that . How do l explain this bs , why it is , has to be , from one person = who seems oblivious to this stuff.

PS , personally l don't think much of the 180 . lt doesn;t get anyone back , my previous girlfriend pretty well did it back then but all it did was make it easier for me to get out that door after really. lt didn't change my mind and me doing it hasn't changed my wifes mind now either.
Personally l reckon who gives a damn if she's impressed with me at this stage but hey not enough to come and hekp fix our marridge.
Yeah it helps you deal with stuff but you'll be doing that anyway so really , l reackon it's highly over rated myself.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

Mine use to say - oh well we are separated so - , 2 wks after hitting me with it , after 18yrs - as if she was just changing clothes .

Her new life is much lonelier than our old life too , like yours actually not even having space now anyway. Pretty sure they just go MAD.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> personally l don't think much of the 180 . lt doesn;t get anyone back



180 is NOT to get ANYONE back !!!

It is to help you with the transition and to make you a better person ! 

The end result , after you changed , became a better and stronger person , removed your bad habits and behavior , became more confident etc may result in a attraction from your X , however , doing 180 should EXCLUDE any thoughts about getting back with the loved ones !

Sooner you understand that , better for you !


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I like to think I'm doing the 90. I just can't do 180, I can't. I relate to what whitehawk says. And really, what do I have to lose? I've already lost him. I won't lose my self-respect because I'm strong that way. And I won't lose my daughter because I know I won't compromise her to help, support or otherwise be open to a possible future with the H.

I just know that I have no way of knowing what that might look like, so might as well stay open, if I get burned (again) it can't feel any worse than this and at least I'll know I've tried.

Thanks all for your 180 support, but I just can't do it. At least not now.


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## Another Planet (Aug 8, 2012)

BigMac said:


> Lusy , he is saying/doing this things because he is confused and most important INSECURE !
> 
> Don't buy it ! Don't believe a word he say ! Don't listen !
> 
> ...


Okay why is that important? Does this make you a better person? I didn't know a good person premeditates and intentionally tries to hurt someone?

Sorry for the sarcastic tone, some people just respond better to that type of thing.


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> I like to think I'm doing the 90. I just can't do 180, I can't. I relate to what whitehawk says. And really, what do I have to lose? I've already lost him. I won't lose my self-respect because I'm strong that way. And I won't lose my daughter because I know I won't compromise her to help, support or otherwise be open to a possible future with the H.
> 
> I just know that I have no way of knowing what that might look like, so might as well stay open, if I get burned (again) it can't feel any worse than this and at least I'll know I've tried.
> 
> Thanks all for your 180 support, but I just can't do it. At least not now.


yeah i agree 100% Lucy and l do know what bm's sayin but l also think you gotta be careful going that far if there is any hope or we are slightly hopeful.
because l could put it like this . lf my ex gf , the one before l got married , was a bit softer around me , even showing she wanted to work on it , still cared = heaps , l 'd probably have tried again with her .
but the fact that she didn't and acted so strong, even went ahead and bought a house , it all made me think she didn;t care enough to sqirm abit and l had such little effect on her that she's just gone on as if l never existed .
Personally l'm doing a sorta about 90 to bc l know damn well me ex now will read a full 180 as if she was right and l didn't care enough to bother after all , l know she will. 
l don't wanna close that door entirely, yeah l am still a little hopeful and l can also see she's swaying a bit too at times. 
l can do this without waring too much sh$t anyway so , at this stage , couldn;t be even close to any worse than the first kick in the head so .

ohwell , think that makes sense


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## HiRoad (Oct 22, 2012)

Lucy and Whitehawk, there is a fine line you walk between being a doormat and plan B. 

Let me pose a few questions: 

1. Rather than try to pursuade your spouse to come back (which may result in them leaving again), how great would it feel if they came back on their own?!

2.Secondly, the point of the 180 is to protect yourself, not to get your partner back. You do not want to go through more pain and anguish.

The 180 and NC does not mean be nasty to your partner, you be nice, cheerful, happy. It is hard to break-up and leave someone who is happy and cheerful. When you do have contact be the best YOU! 

Remember they fell in love with you at somepoint, try to remember who you were before you got married, and be that person again.

By doing a 90, you MAY be putting yourself and feelings at risk of more pain. 

I too was on the other side, i had a GF before i got married for 5yrs, we had a house, great life, etc. (no kids), i left her mutiple times. Each time she would beg, plead, and chase me. I would always go back not because of that, no, because the "grass was not greener". The last and final time, she did not CONTACT me she did not call me, she started to go out with other men. Boy did that hit a nerve with me and guess what... i started to pursue her!! If she had played her cards right it may have been a different story.


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## BigMac (Oct 29, 2012)

> The 180 and NC does not mean be nasty to your partner, you be nice, cheerful, happy. It is hard to break-up and leave someone who is happy and cheerful. When you do have contact be the best YOU!


I can ad the CONFIDENCE into it !

4 days before D my X said - Why are you so nice to me ? Why are you so great looking , happy and confident ? Do you know how hard are you making it for me ?

She was questioning her decision , and that is what you need !


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## whitehawk (Aug 14, 2012)

HiRoad said:


> Lucy and Whitehawk, there is a fine line you walk between being a doormat and plan B.
> 
> Let me pose a few questions:
> 
> ...


hi hr , never said anything about doormats and begging ! And l know what the point is mines just tweaked to our personal issues. 
Anyway , 180 your brains out people cool with me.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lucy - How are you doing?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Thanks Soca - you could say I'm hanging in there but I'm really a zombie. Doing what I can to get all holiday-spirited for my daughter (and I like this time of year usually, too). But I'm starting to feel dead, still in shock, dreaming about him, seeing him too much in person and he smiles at me like it's the most genuine thing -- my head is saying, Don't trust that smile, he's moving on, still whistling when he's at our home with our daughter like everything is fine, but my heart says, Oh, there's the person I married, the one I love and built dreams with. 

I feel like a fool, a hopeless romantic and paper thin, being blown in the wind everyday, and I never know which way. All my conversations with friends feel like me pouring my heart out but it gets nowhere because no one can tell me it's all a bad dream. 

I'm lonely. I'm bursting with love for my daughter and my heart breaks thinking about being apart from her. Haven't yet worked out any "sharing" because H is just in a new place, I said I wanted to meet the roommates (there are six of them, plus two other kids).

So now I'm scheduled to go there for dinner, I even offered to make ****ing pear crumble, and I'm so nervous that it's going to be awful. How can I sit with this group of people who will be getting more of my H's goodwill and openness than I am? I feel like I want to say something to them but I don't have the courage, so maybe I'll write a short card. None of their business but I don't want them thinking this is one of those splits where "It's for the best". I want them to know my H has a home to return to.

Thank you so much for asking, again. It feels a wee bit better to vent.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

Lucy...why do u feel the need to have a sit down dinner with six of ur H new support group? What's that going to do for you? Wouldn't u just meet them in passing because of child exchange or something? But a sit down dinner? I don't understand?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

Stella Moon - because it's a house where my daughter is going to start spending some time, and I want them to know me, even a little, and to share some goodwill all around. And I wanted to see the space she'll be in, check out my sense of the other adults in the house for more than just a one minute exchange in passing.

Also because as part of my H's "support team" they could play a role in how this all goes down...is he taking space for a few months, can we work things out, other options abound. He'll have conversations with them, at least one is a single parent and there is a married couple with a kid in the house, so he'll have different perspectives when he's thinking this through, which I sincerely hope he's doing.

And I'll report that it went very well. I am a superstar, at least tonight.


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## Stella Moon (Nov 22, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> Stella Moon - because it's a house where my daughter is going to start spending some time, and I want them to know me, even a little, and to share some goodwill all around. And I wanted to see the space she'll be in, check out my sense of the other adults in the house for more than just a one minute exchange in passing.
> 
> Also because as part of my H's "support team" they could play a role in how this all goes down...is he taking space for a few months, can we work things out, other options abound. He'll have conversations with them, at least one is a single parent and there is a married couple with a kid in the house, so he'll have different perspectives when he's thinking this through, which I sincerely hope he's doing.
> 
> And I'll report that it went very well. I am a superstar, at least tonight.


Understood. 

....and of course your a superstar!!!!


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

Lucy - How's everything going for you?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

soca - thanks for checking in. 

i feel pretty awful, truth be told. i suppose i'm in the 180 stage but i can't seem to really do it. i'm mostly SO angry at my husband, it's painful to see him, and i'm torturing myself with thoughts of what he's up to.

we've been almost no contact - at first, i requested that, since christmas was so hard with him here and being so friendly and detached. now he's stopped reaching out to ask about seeing our daughter, and it seems he's just waiting for me to ask for help so he can then be "helpful."

i'm also full of remorse for the things i know i didn't do to help things near "the end". like so so full of it, it makes my whole body ache. 

so back and forth i go, angry, sad, hurt.

i haven't figured out how to get some happy in there - i've certainly been getting out with friends, and talking to lots of people. also seeing a counsellor. yoga, swimming, all that "being good to yourself" stuff.

but i just still feel so horrible. it's starting to feel hopeless - like i get the sense he cares more about his new friends than he does about me and our daughter, so would never want to have to compromise them to be with us.

it makes me sick to my stomach with grief. 

(and by the way, it's been two months now). 

i do have moments where i am so angry and hurt and i wonder, do i want him back? could we forgive each other? what about the things in our relationship that I wasn't happy with?

but it still feels so wrong to have it end this way, and for him to not really acknowledge what his reasons are.

soca - i've caught up a bit on your story. i hope you're making it through your days with some strength and purpose.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> .
> 
> i feel pretty awful, truth be told. i suppose i'm in the 180 stage but i can't seem to really do it. i'm mostly SO angry at my husband, it's painful to see him, and i'm torturing myself with thoughts of what he's up to.


Lucy - I hit the same stage at the two month mark also and it just started easing up a few weeks ago (at the three month "anniversary". Extreme anger coupled with paranoia. A fantastic combination. Keep your focus on doing things that make you feel better (as difficult as it is) and on your daughter. 

Have you discussed with an attorney yet custody arrangements?


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## lucy mulholland (May 18, 2010)

I have consulted a couple of people (legal aid, family mediator) but have not and dont' plan on enlisting a lawyer. 

But I have to confess that the thought of going for full custody is big in my head right now. 

So I'm waiting, hoping things shift.


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## magnite (Dec 23, 2012)

hey lucy, it's been 4 weeks for me and I am also trying the 180. We have 3 kids, 2 school aged and one 4 month olds so the 180 is hard with a baby. He won't take the baby out but today I told him a quick good night after he brings the older two home from swimming and that's it. I also have a feeling h won't do much with the kids unless I schedule it. So I scheduled once a week he picks up the kids for swimming, it helps me and he sees the kids.


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## soca70 (Oct 30, 2012)

lucy mulholland said:


> I have consulted a couple of people (legal aid, family mediator) but have not and dont' plan on enlisting a lawyer.
> 
> But I have to confess that the thought of going for full custody is big in my head right now.
> 
> So I'm waiting, hoping things shift.


It might make sense to find out what your options are just so you can be prepared if things don't shift in your direction. I know I put that off as long as possible. It doesn't mean you have to do anything yet but it would go a long way I think in helping you know exactly where you stand in the situation.


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