# I have a walk away wife.



## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

I love my wife. She doesn't love me. I'm 31, she 25. We've been together since we were 22/16, living together since 23/17. No kids. Married for a year and a half. She left because I was controlling, manipulative and mentally abusive. I have apologised for this, and accepted that I was controlling. I am in therapy to help get myself past that, and I feel it's my resistance to change that means I am controlling.

It has been three months now. I'm still struggling. She's moving on. She wants me to as well. She's been travelling with her parents, exercising, drinking with pals. I have a slight issue in she was the source of most of my social activities - I'm an introvert by nature. All my workmates are 40+ with kids, and my best friends all live out of town (although they sometimes pop over for the weekend and we go for mini road trips). I have no family in the country I live in (UK) as they are all back in my home country, and I can't move because of substantial negative equity (bought the place a couple of months before the credit crunch slammed in).

Separation papers were to be sent to me by her but she's put it off until next year because of the cost.

I've been doing a lot of NC recently other than seeing her Facebook status updates on occasion. She's cat-sitting our cat at my place while I travel to the US for work next week.

I struggle to focus on and/or enjoy the things I used to do on my own. They say this is a time to find myself, but I find that I have lost myself. My mind keeps going back to the wife.

I would personally prefer to reconcile. I - and my therapist too - feel the things that went wrong in our relationship are things that should be able to be repaired and worked upon. No cheating, no physical abuse, and mental abuse is basically me being an idiot jerk who thought he was helping his wife diet by putting back the chocolate she puts into the shopping trolley and stuff like that. I should never have got involved with that and should have just kept telling her I think she is beautiful, because ironically that's the only reason I wanted to help her diet - so she could feel good about herself. She has body image issues. As for manipulation, I feel it's really hard to pick on that one because everyone manipulates. I never had any cruel intentions or wanted to hurt her. For control, yes, definitely. I consistently said it was not worth getting a joint account nor putting her name on the mortgage. In retrospect I was controlling the financial things very carefully. I always let her see what I was doing but it was a trust issue and I want to get past that by doing exactly what she had wanted - both names on mortgage, joint account, let her have more say in things and trust her with them. I am confident I can do all of these things - I should have done them earlier and honestly I would have done them in the days before she left, when we argued about stuff like that. But it was clearly already too late at that point for her.

In the end I just feel that our marriage is not worth throwing away, and she is not worth giving up on. But at the same time, she seems happy now - so who am I to tell my loved one she can't be happy? It's a tough time.

Anyway. Just thought I'd post. I had a much longer post written out earlier but deleted it, it was way longer than this one even. Hopefully this shorter (!) post will get a little response.

EDIT: Worth noting I was torn about putting this into Reconciliation or not. Decided on this place in the end because while reconciliation is my aim, it's not what is currently happening.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Really sorry to hear that . She was so young when you got together, and she's still so young. She has her whole life ahead of her (and so do you), and probably is feeling it's easier to start over than put in the hard work to heal your marriage.

I would suggest no longer being friends with her on social media and resist the urge to cyber check up on her as much as possible. The internet makes break-ups so much more difficult because you can still see so much of them if you choose. It's a form of self torture, in my opinion.

Hang in there.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

She was definitely young when we got together, and I respect her going out there and learning about life in an independent way.

Still, we were together for nine years - I'm not willing to just... give up on her, on us. She's my best friend by a huge distance, and a wonderful person, and someone I love with all I've got even after weeks apart. Why do people give up on marriage so easily?  I mean, it was only a year and a half ago that she married me, and we've been in love for many years, it just seems... a waste to just suddenly end things.

Hard work to heal a marriage sounds a hell of a lot better than just abandoning the best years of my life to the past.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

TakingSteps said:


> She was definitely young when we got together, and I respect her going out there and learning about life in an independent way.
> 
> Still, we were together for nine years - I'm not willing to just... give up on her, on us. She's my best friend by a huge distance, and a wonderful person, and someone I love with all I've got even after weeks apart. Why do people give up on marriage so easily?  I mean, it was only a year and a half ago that she married me, and we've been in love for many years, it just seems... a waste to just suddenly end things.
> 
> *Hard work to heal a marriage sounds a hell of a lot better than just abandoning the best years of my life to the past.*



Yeah, I agree .


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

Give her what she wants. Work on yourself. Your only 31. As you have discovered, you are too young to be married right now.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

I don't think 29 & 23 is too young an age to get married after seven years together, personally.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

TakingSteps said:


> I don't think 29 & 23 is too young an age to get married after seven years together, personally.


But you were controlling, and she probably did not have other experiences. It was not a wise move for her, and she realizes that now.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

TakingSteps said:


> I don't think 29 & 23 is too young an age to get married after seven years together, personally.


Thats because you are on the inside looking out, rather than the other way around. Seriously!, Work on yourself, don't go chasing her.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Be honest, now, OP. Is part of the reason you want to reconcile so badly because you're anxious when she's outside your sphere of influence? How much of wanting her back is a need to control her?


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

jld said:


> But you were controlling, and she probably did not have other experiences. It was not a wise move for her, and she realizes that now.


While I was controlling, it was about things like finances more than anything - she struggles to save. I was willing to change, though. I was not controlling about how she lived her life, though - she would go to parties, often wanting me to come along, sometimes I would, sometimes I wouldn't. I encouraged her for courses she wanted to take, and if she ever wanted to go do something, I had no qualms with it. I wanted to go do some things sometimes and she wouldn't be keen, and that was fine, too. I was controlling of the finances and yes, I should have got a joint account and thrown her name onto the mortgage (my reasons for not doing so for the mortgage were logical though - she would lose any first-time-buyer rights, what's the point? Didn't consider the emotional attachment it came with though, which in retrospect was a mistake). But again, while I was willing to change once I realised just how much it meant to her, it was too late.

But yeah, controlling isn't an all-encompassing word and I have apologised to her for the things that I did control that it turns out very much upset her. I felt I was doing the right thing at the time but didn't listen to her feelings enough at the time. Still, this was something that can be fixed and I was willing to fix just days before she left.


toonaive said:


> Thats because you are on the inside looking out, rather than the other way around. Seriously!, Work on yourself, don't go chasing her.


I'm not chasing her, not at the moment. She knows how I feel but I accept she doesn't feel the same way. It hurts, hugely, but yeah. Everyone from my therapist to her father feels this is a relationship that should be able to be repaired, but unless she can find herself willing to do so, it won't be. It's rough.

I still don't think the age thing is that bad though. 29 & 23 is nothing. Everyone knows a lot of people get married far younger. Our problems exist beyond mere age. If age was a problem, it'd be affecting a lot of marriages I'm aware of that tended to start at the age of around 21 but they're still going strong. Age is a cop-out, I feel.

I do, however, accept that she started our relationship (not marriage) at a very young age. But seven years on and wanting to get married, it wasn't without us working through bumps and niggles. But it seemed to grow very quickly this year, from late December onwards. Before then we were still having loads of good times. I thought it was her depression, which I feel stems from her work (where we feel she is under-appreciated and devalued) more than anything. But the depression lead to drinking more and more often, especially after bad days at work, and she would be more and more concerned with her body image. It all just built up and then a month before she left, she declared she really wanted to leave the flat - I thought this meant moving, not moving out! But alas, I got frustrated because we _can't_ move. I promised her that I would do what I could to help her complete her driving lessons, renovate the flat or take us on a holiday, whatever she wanted... but in the end, she just left after we argued again a month later.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Did she have other relationships before she met you?

Three of my sisters married at 20 to young men they had been with for years, since they met in high school. In every case, it was a mistake. They realized it later, and paid for it. But not soon enough.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

Rowan said:


> Be honest, now, OP. Is part of the reason you want to reconcile so badly because you're anxious when she's outside your sphere of influence? How much of wanting her back is a need to control her?


It's definitely not about my need to control her. As mentioned in my recent post (made after yours), it wasn't HER that I controlled, it was finances. All the bills went to my account, and I was too lazy to get a joint account, it just seemed like a big hassle. But controlling her lifestyle was not part of that. We enjoyed meals out in town in places she picked out, we played video games together, we went to the cinema probably not as often as she'd like but that wasn't because I was stealing money from her or anything. She always made around the same amount of money as I do in recent years - perhaps 5% less on average. This year - after she left - I got a decent raise, too. But it was a problem in that while I had the bills, and we split the difference in proportion to how much we made, she felt it was a case of me controlling the money too often. My argument to that would be that she made a very small amount below what I make, yet saved nothing when I saved a lot. The correct argument to ALL of that is that we should have stopped looking at the money as "yours" or "mine" and started dealing with it as "ours" (something I don't actually think she was keen on - she wanted a joint account for bills only). This is something I've spent a lot of time looking into - it turns out it's not a common problem, every couple has financial problems and setups. In my case, what I'd like to do if we tried again, would be to have a complete merger of all things so we both have access to a joint account with both wages going into it, so we don't have to think about who is spending who's money. I would probably find that a lot easier to handle, and if I spent very little in the month then at the end of the month it would be a feeling of "look at what WE saved" rather than "look at what I saved! Oh, have you paid off your credit card?"

It's a problem I have completely accepted and apologised for. I am absolutely willing to make changes.

Right now it's not the time, though. If she asked to come back right now it would be a case of "no" because of the obvious reasons - everything is raw and we need to actually spend time doing a lot of trust rebuilding and communicating. Groundwork. But again, she's not ready for that at this point either so I do have to focus on myself, but I find that very difficult.

Still, I'm trying to work on renovating the kitchen to distract myself as much as I can, but urgh, you just spend all that time with your mind wandering, you know?

But to answer your initial question: No, I want to reconcile _because I love her_. I do believe I am a good person. I made mistakes, and I took FULL blame for us parting initially. It's only after weeks of therapy that I have come to accept that it was not entirely my fault. Not to say it was hers - but to say there are problems that existed that we both need to work on if it's to get better. But also to remember that we did only just get married a year and a half ago... it was barely a year ago that we were on our honeymoon (we delayed it), enjoying sun in Thailand. It all just fell apart when I got lazy, and didn't pay attention and listen properly. But I never, not once, fell out of love with her.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

jld said:


> Did she have other relationships before she met you?
> 
> Three of my sisters married at 20 to young men they had been with for years, since they met in high school. In every case, it was a mistake. They realized it later, and paid for it. But not soon enough.


And I know people who got married in their teens or early 20's and they worked out find for decades and are still together. It happens. My boss, my sister, both of them are in such situations. Hell, her parents are 40 years wed I believe, with the same age difference, too.

I do agree that her young age means she missed out on something in her youth, and that she may well be trying to find that now. But I don't think our age had a huge impact on the past year where things fell apart.

It's very easy to compare relationships but I don't think it's going to do a huge deal of good unless you personally know both relationships, but I'll keep trying to fill you in as much as I can to allow you all to get a better perspective. For now, I'd rather focus on the people rather than the age thing, but if you want to keep on it that's okay, obviously.

She had other short term relationships before me, yeah, but nothing serious. Same with myself, the longest I'd had before her was a year.

EDIT: FWIW, I know I sound defensive, but not without reason. I accept my faults. I appreciate the replies and thoughts, so keep them coming. I hope I can get some good support around here because I've seen other threads and posts and felt I could use a bit of a support network online. My family and friends are great support and they all want us to work things out, but at the same time, I feel some anonymous stuff always helps.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, I don't think 22 is 16, though both are certainly young.

Lol, that is my middle-aged perspective.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

jld said:


> Well, I don't think 22 is 16, though both are certainly young.
> 
> Lol, that is my middle-aged perspective.


Yeah, I can understand that. I mean, people keep saying I'm young and have my whole life ahead of me, but I can't help but feel that I've lived the best years of my life with the most wonderful person, who made me so incredibly happy (and I do believe I made her happy until recently)... to think that I may now have to spend x amount of years getting over her, then x amount of years trying to find someone new... I find this whole "moving on" thing hard for multiple reasons. Not just because I love her so much, but because I feel that a good husband supports his wife until the end. She left because she has been going through great pain, why else would she leave? I have to be a good man to her as much as I can be in this situation.

I have been giving her the space she asks for and have given her respect and understanding as best as I know how. It's a fight, though. I try to show a strong face but when she was over for an hour on Sunday to pick up some stuff and catch up (first time in about a month), I burst into tears for a few seconds when loneliness somehow got brought up. Her leaving is a great source of pain for me, but loneliness is the real killer in all of this. I hate living in the flat, alone, now. Which is weird because beforehand if she had a week away I'd be thinking "Wahey, me-time!". Funny how things turn around.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

A weekend away is temporary. Her leaving took away your underlying foundation. Big difference.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

Yeah. One of the best things about being in a marriage, or even a long term relationship as it was before we tied the knot, was that I knew each time she went away that she would be coming back to me and talking about her adventure, and vice versa. We talked a lot. While we lacked in communication SKILLS and UNDERSTANDING, we didn't lack in communication in general. I did always ask her to read up about how to talk to guys, though, when you have a problem and she never did. I always felt it would be really nice if she understood the good and bad ways/times to talk to a guy, because I did want to help her. It was just that last year, and especially the last three months, where things just escalated so much.

I have consistently told my friends and family that she was right to walk away - it woke me up so much when I came home to find her suitcase (I had actually come home early to tidy the place up and sort out a nice meal for us as we argued the two nights beforehand). It was the slap in the face I needed to really start refocusing on the marriage. I say "She was right to walk out on me. But if she had walked back in one week later, asking if I was ready to really listen this time, I just feel it would have all worked out." But, alas, she returned and sat down with me for dinner and said she wanted a month away to think about things. And when we next met, it was with her Dad who was pushing us to reconcile (I was not so pushy, I know her well enough to pushing her), but she just wasn't ready, and said it would be separation a week or two later.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

Just remembering something else I was controlling about: The future. I always insisted we'd have kids eventually (no rush on when, both of us were fine with that) and that we'd move to my home country, NZ, when they were about five so they could go to school there. I get the feeling she didn't like that. Again, if it were her or NZ, I'd pick her any day of the week, no questions asked. I took our marriage for granted, and that was the biggest mistake out of everything. But she also took my assumptions for granted, and I did tell her on the Sunday that she needed to wrestle control back off me more often. She said she did, but she never put it on the line, she always asked and left it alone after I disagreed with her ideas (which I concede I may have done too often). She should have just told me outright, it's not going to be that way, because otherwise I'm not happy with our marriage, or something like that.

More communication failures on both of our parts. It's not a blame thing on either person... it's just the both of us not getting that understanding right. I never realised how strongly she felt about things, and she always assumed I felt more strongly about things than I did. Gah. I feel at fault regardless. This post is a tiny thing, really, she never mentioned it after we split, but it just popped into my mind recently and I can't help but feel I could have handled all that kind of thing better. She always wanted to move to NZ early in our relationship but as time went on she was less keen.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She might have been afraid to bring it up. There might have been too many red flags in general for her to feel it was worth trying to communicate.

I'm sorry for your pain, but I think she did the right thing -- for both of you.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

While I agree, that she did the right thing, that doesn't mean I have to give up on her, or us. I'd be a pretty useless husband if I gave up on my wife after a few months apart. I won't chase her... I will continue to give her space. But I love her. I can't just give up. She's worth holding onto, and I know I'm not a terrible person, and I know the mistakes I made and that they are most certainly the kind that can be worked on in a rather quick fashion.

She doesn't hate me, either. She admits she's tense around me, but says she still wants us to be friends. As I say, she's even cat-sitting while I'm in the States, and is keen to get back into our gaming circle (we play an MMO, founded a 'family' on it).


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OK dude.

I'm going to come at it from a very specific lens: my first marriage.

When we split, she had me (and my friends) convinced that I was passive, dependant on her, depressed, controlling, all kinds of things.

And she wanted to separate 'temporarily' to 'have space' because 'she loves me but isn't in love with me' and 'needs to think about things.'

When really what she wanted was headspace to f her boyfriend on the side. And all of that was really a distraction from her own mental problems, and not being able to face up to what she had done.

Let's see, I controlled:
[] Money - check (what an a-hole I was for making sure the mortgage got paid!)
[] her family - check (what an a-hole I was for not wanting to spend every vacation with her family, and every other weekend at their house!)
[] her future - check (what an a-hole I was that I wanted kids sometime in the next 10 years!)

And, being a psych major, she diagnosed me as:
[] clinically depressed (I mean, what kind of guy crashes on the couch after a 10 hour shift at work and another 10 at the lab?)
[] delusional (her spending money had nothing to do with struggling to pay the bills, her family wasn't too intrusive, etc)
[] passive-dependant syndrome (even though I went to school 60-80 hours a week, worked 50 hours a week, and taught martial arts 3x a week, I was 'completely unable to even get out of bed without her and totally dependant on her.')
[] abusive - I once pushed her away from me after she slapped me in the face about 5 times, she threatened to call the cops. On top of throwing a frying pan at my head and almost knocking me out, calling me all kinds of names, fat, all kinds of things.

What it ended up being was a magnification of all my flaws (which I was willing to work on and did work on in MC) and minimization/absolution of hers.

All of which had one solution: let her the F go.

Turns out, after much IC after our separation, I'm not any of those things. 

Turns out, after many relationships since, I'm pretty F'ing awesome.

Turns out, more than 15 years later, I'm married, have a (mostly) good marriage, awesome kids, kick ass career, sweet pad... and my ex is still single, struggles, no kids, no real career... because after we split, she focused on partying. 

I'm going to lay it out here: I don't know that you're abusive. I think you were a **** at times. But I don't see abuse. I see magnification of abuse as an excuse for her to bolt and go be young and single.

Here's the thing about girls that want to be young and single: no force on earth is going to make them stop except themselves. You can either have fun with them, or go and find someone stable that can appreciate you.

Let her the hell go, man.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

I'm rather confident it's not a case of a guy on the side, because she always wanted me to take her out and hang out with her and her pals more often, not less. She would come home and grab a gin as soon as she did so because work was crap. Personally I - and my therapist - are fairly convinced she had quite notable depression but was too embarrassed to state it to a doc seriously (she would instead go to the docs for labrynthitis, which she had, and mention depression on the side and therefore not get it taken too seriously... sad). If she said anything about it at all the doc. But yeah, she would spend her time doing things which don't really allow for an affair. If she was ever out, I'd be invited 99% of the time unless it was a girl's night out and in those cases there would be pics of them all everywhere anyway.

I initially accepted I was abusive and I still think - like you said - I was a complete and utter **** at times (I confessed to her I was a fool early after she walked out and told her to take the time she needs to think things over). But I have since come to terms that it was the depression along with my control issues regarding financial change and the future which made our problems what they were. A lack of communication, as always, too.

I still hope to reconcile though. I'll let her go, I'll work on myself, who knows, maybe I'll move on. But at the moment in time, I can't just give up on her. I will support her and give her space, but I won't give up on her. She's made me too happy in those years to simply turn my back on her.

EDIT: Definintely want to say I'm still really appreciating all these replies. It means a lot to have some anonymous input on all of this, since my therapist only sees me once per week it's kind of nice to get a few more random points of view.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Well, I think it is good you can see and admit you are controlling. Control issues usually are due to fear. If you can find a way to manage your fears, you are likely to become less controlling.


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## tryingpatience (May 7, 2014)

TakingSteps said:


> Yeah. One of the best things about being in a marriage, or even a long term relationship as it was before we tied the knot, was that I knew each time she went away that she would be coming back to me and talking about her adventure, and vice versa. We talked a lot. While we lacked in communication SKILLS and UNDERSTANDING, we didn't lack in communication in general. I did always ask her to read up about how to talk to guys, though, when you have a problem and she never did. I always felt it would be really nice if she understood the good and bad ways/times to talk to a guy, because I did want to help her. It was just that last year, and especially the last three months, where things just escalated so much.
> 
> I have consistently told my friends and family that she was right to walk away - it woke me up so much when I came home to find her suitcase (I had actually come home early to tidy the place up and sort out a nice meal for us as we argued the two nights beforehand). It was the slap in the face I needed to really start refocusing on the marriage. I say "She was right to walk out on me. But if she had walked back in one week later, asking if I was ready to really listen this time, I just feel it would have all worked out." But, alas, she returned and sat down with me for dinner and said she wanted a month away to think about things. And when we next met, it was with her Dad who was pushing us to reconcile (I was not so pushy, I know her well enough to pushing her), but she just wasn't ready, and said it would be separation a week or two later.


You probably don't see it now but you can start over again. You are also still young and you don't have kids with her.

I've read most of what you've posted and the replies. I just want to say that you should stop feeling sorry for yourself. Continue improving yourself as you have and realize that it isn't your fault that she doesn't want to work on the marriage. She made a choice. She decided to leave.

Chasing her or thinking about her won't bring her back. It will just make it more painful for you. If she's no longer into you there is nothing you can do. Yes, it is painful to hear but it is true. Implement the 180 and try living for yourself right now. Start doing things on your own and find what makes you happy again.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

TakingSteps said:


> I don't think 29 & 23 is too young an age to get married after seven years together, personally.


23 is too young to have been with someone for 7 years IMO. A 16 year old is a child. Life decisions should not be made by children.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

Better now than in 10 years after kids 

Also congrats on getting help it takes a strong person to admit fault or wrong nowadays, such a shame but its true


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

TakingSteps said:


> I'm rather confident it's not a case of a guy on the side, because she always wanted me to take her out and hang out with her and her pals more often, not less. She would come home and grab a gin as soon as she did so because work was crap. Personally I - and my therapist - are fairly convinced she had quite notable depression but was too embarrassed to state it to a doc seriously (she would instead go to the docs for labrynthitis, which she had, and mention depression on the side and therefore not get it taken too seriously... sad). If she said anything about it at all the doc. But yeah, she would spend her time doing things which don't really allow for an affair. If she was ever out, I'd be invited 99% of the time unless it was a girl's night out and in those cases there would be pics of them all everywhere anyway.
> 
> I initially accepted I was abusive and I still think - like you said - I was a complete and utter **** at times (I confessed to her I was a fool early after she walked out and told her to take the time she needs to think things over). But I have since come to terms that it was the depression along with my control issues regarding financial change and the future which made our problems what they were. A lack of communication, as always, too.
> 
> ...


You're missing the point.

The dude on the side was a symptom, not the cause.

Gin is a symptom, not a cause.

Being a **** is not being abusive. It's being a ****.

Do not support her by giving her space. Do not buy into all of her excuses. She said she wants freedom, give it to her. 

Support yourself by moving on. There is a world of women out there, man. And you just got a free pass to and meet all the single ones. Do not see this as an ending. See it as a beginning. A door opening. Think about all of her crap that you're now free of. Think about all the possibilities at your feet. You're not losing anything. You're gaining the whole world.

Go rejoin the human race. Find yourself a grown up without depression, alcohol issues, and in my thinking, a delusional outlook on life.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You say that you controlled the money.

You also said that she made close to what you make. 

Where did her income go? Did it go to your account?


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

jld said:


> Well, I think it is good you can see and admit you are controlling. Control issues usually are due to fear. If you can find a way to manage your fears, you are likely to become less controlling.


Yeah, I've been researching how to be less controlling, alongside the therapy. For the finance side, there is a great article on staymarried that touched on the exact issues I had, and I'd love to have the option to try it out someday as it really intrigues me. Basically, not only get a joint account, but _let the other partner manage it_ until you realise that things are okay. The big thing for me that I have to remember is that whenever she DID take control, not only did I not object to it once she actually took that control, but I actually didn't mind it at all and perhaps some bad food choices aside (joke, not being actually anal about such things) they turned out just fine.

I also have this plastered onto a Notepad file I keep open at all times... 

*Make your faith bigger than your fear.*

The need to control people, places and things is usually sponsored by a deep fear that if we let go of the reigns of control everything will fall apart. Practice letting go and see what happens. Start in small ways. What happens if you don’t decide where you go on your next date? How does it feel if you respond to matches even if they don’t seem ideal and you go along just out of curiosity with no expectation? Living in this way requires only one thing – a change of mind. You begin to believe that you will be ok no matter what happens; that you are safe already; that you are being looked after and life is unfolding exactly as it is meant to. It will be hard at first after a life time of fear and control but with practice it will become second nature.


tryingpatience said:


> You probably don't see it now but you can start over again. You are also still young and you don't have kids with her.
> 
> I've read most of what you've posted and the replies. I just want to say that you should stop feeling sorry for yourself. Continue improving yourself as you have and realize that it isn't your fault that she doesn't want to work on the marriage. She made a choice. She decided to leave.
> 
> Chasing her or thinking about her won't bring her back. It will just make it more painful for you. If she's no longer into you there is nothing you can do. Yes, it is painful to hear but it is true. Implement the 180 and try living for yourself right now. Start doing things on your own and find what makes you happy again.


I'll say it again, I'm not chasing after her. I've made my feelings clear in a calm manner. I told her I accept she doesn't feel the same way. I am trying my best to improve myself, but damn, that's really not easy. This whole "live for yourself" thing is very awkward for a guy like me who felt like he had everything already. The things I still want are the things you have to save up for over long periods. I'm going to renovate the kitchen, though, so that's something.


NobodySpecial said:


> 23 is too young to have been with someone for 7 years IMO. A 16 year old is a child. Life decisions should not be made by children.


I completely agree and it took a long time before I caved and hooked up with her back then. In the end I have no regrets about doing such a thing, because I did it sensibly, talking to her family, respecting their rules. She didn't make a life decision then, though. She hooked up with a guy. It was a few years later when we split for a week or two and ended up back together that she made a more serious commitment, and it was obviously at the age of 23 when she married me. But ugh, enough of age discussion. Who we were when we were 22 and 16 is not who we are now. It impacts things, yes, but it was no life decision back then, it was merely two people attracted to each other.


dash74 said:


> Better now than in 10 years after kids
> 
> Also congrats on getting help it takes a strong person to admit fault or wrong nowadays, such a shame but its true


Ha, very true on the first note, and thanks on the second. I am trying to measure carefully the true responsibility I have in the breakup of our marriage, but it is definitely the kind of thing that I started off by just conceding every blow sent my way and since then I have taken the time to realise that was actually just another means of controlling. Controlling the reason for a breakup, no less, because it means you can put all the mistakes in your own court and then fix them and assume things will be fine. No, there are things that have gone on that can't be fixed by me alone.


marduk said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> The dude on the side was a symptom, not the cause.
> 
> ...


She said she wants space. She said she wants separation. Freedom? Sure. I'm giving her space, and freedom, and when she wants to send in these separation papers she can do so and I'll read them carefully and probably consult a lawyer or something. I'm not going to just treat her like some harlot that just killed my mother, though. Our relationship did not end in yelling, it ended in confessions and tears.

Beyond that, though, you're absolutely right in that I need to do what I can to support myself and I'm trying to do just that. Posting a thread in this forum was part of the process.



sargon said:


> Are you really a lazy guy?


Yeah, honestly, I can flick between very lazy about something and very determined. I'm the kind of guy that runs a website and deals with two or three major projects a year. Each one requires huge time investment and then afterwards I'm burned out and then I let the other guys handle things until I have the energy for the next one. It's not exactly the same with marriage, but I definitely have times in my life where I just figure everything is going to be fine, and I definitely have times when I take solid action.



> Do you really think it's such a hassle to sit with a bank person for 15 minutes and open up a joint account and make the neessary changes?


I really did feel that it was just a hassle. The way she wanted it, the way I looked at it, it just felt like making an extra bank account just so I had to transfer money into it every single month and try and manage how we sorted that out and everything. It didn't help that her conversations were basically when I'm sitting at my PC engaged in something, she'd jump onto me about it, I'd be like "ugh, it's a hassle" and until the final month or so, she would tend to drop it at that point. But perhaps you're right and subconciously it's very possible I was just wanting to control things... but I would have controlled it no more than I already did, really. It didn't make sense to me. Logic brain etc. Why have a third account set aside only for bills if it means I have to do the paperwork for the account, rework all those direct debits, and then transfer money on a timely fashion every month and commit to having some extra cash in there just in case? And she would have to do the same. On our existing process, all I had to do was say "Here's how much the bills were last month, here's the percent you owe for it, send me £x.xx" and it was _easy_. It's only now that she has walked out that I considered the emotional benefit it made to her over the logical side I had in my head. It was a foolish thing. Ignorance, arrogance, laziness, all that kind of stuff. Control? Again, I gave her full access to my own account anyway, she could do as she liked with it. But you're right, it's possible it's more than that and I just don't want to believe it... 



> 2- Even if you did the joint bank account thing, the spending habit differences would eventually tear you apart anyway.


I disagree on this part. We balanced each other out nicely. I always was happy to help her pay off things and I happily paid for two thirds of the wedding and probably more of the honeymoon. I didn't mind so long as she was still able to pay the bills each month and she was. She just spent the rest of her money as well, every time.



EleGirl said:


> You say that you controlled the money.
> 
> You also said that she made close to what you make.
> 
> Where did her income go? Did it go to your account?


Her money went to her account.
My money went to my account.
All the bills went to my account, bar her gym, Spotify, phone and MMO sub.
The bills that were to be split between us (ie, those that were relevant to both of us, like mortgage, insurance, etc) were added up and she would transfer an amount to me each month. The amount she sent was equivalent to her percent of our total income, so if she earned marginally less than me, she would pay marginally less of the bills, and it was basically what we did for the past six or so years.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TakingSteps said:


> ...In the end I just feel that our marriage is not worth throwing away, and she is not worth giving up on...


Sorry for your loss, but that's how partnerships work, needs both to make it work and only one to end it. I suggest working at letting go of this so that you can put that sentiment in the past - ie "you felt that your marriage WAS not worth throwing away, but it didn't work out that way and now that partnership is over".


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She had 100% control over her own money and spent it as she pleased. I do not see any controlling in regards to this.

She had her own account. You had your own account. Why should you put her on your account when she would not put you on hers? Again I see no controling here.

All the bills went to you. They should be available to both of you. You did the work to organize and pay them. 

Someone has you brainwashed. You did not control the money. You each controlled your own. And you paid the bills.

N9w I do think it was wrong for you to make a unilateral decision on buying a place in your name only. Big purchases like that need to be decided upon jointly. Since you are married it should have been a joint purchase. 
The only
Your statement that it was to save her first time buyer status. .she was married. Did you assume that she would go buy her own place? I think this is an ecuse you are using. You rightly do not trust her financially.

She saves no money. She wants access to your accounts but will not allow you access to hers.

I see two people who need joint fiancial education and goals. If that can not be achieved, the marriage is toast.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

Just a quick note, it was a joint decision to buy this place, but it was long before we were wed and it was in my name using my deposit. For what it's worth, she's not going to claim half despite everything, and I don't blame her with the negative equity.

And no, not to buy her own place. To buy a new place. It's a small flat and we both wanted to move out. Turns out she had her own way of doing so.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TakingSteps said:


> Just a quick note, it was a joint decision to buy this place, but it was long before we were wed and it was in my name using my deposit. For what it's worth, she's not going to claim half despite everything, and I don't blame her with the negative equity.
> 
> And no, not to buy her own place. To buy a new place. It's a small flat and we both wanted to move out. Turns out she had her own way of doing so.


Get a lawyer, before you make any assumptions about what she will or won't do, educate yourself about your rights and hers. Your residence and any mortgages on it are community property and will be split equally.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OK man. 

Read what Elegirl wrote. Tattoo it on your eyelids.

I was seriously a train wreck for 6 months because my ex had me snowed six ways to sunday into thinking I was a giant mental case. 

Dont. Go. There.

The mistakes I made in my marriage were thus, in no particular order:

#1 marrying too young. She was young, I was young, we were just too damn young.
#2 trying to grow up too fast. She wasn't done getting her ya-yas out. So she got them out when were were married or separated. This doesn't have to be sex. 
#3 my ex had never lived on her own. So it became this idealized paradise, you know? I should have waited to move in with her.
#4 I got lazy. Married marduk is lazy marduk. I had done my job, you know? Got the girl? I became... nice. Compliant. Easy.
#5 I believed her bull****. Marriage is trust, right? If something doesn't feel right, it isn't right. 
#6 I went down this path of trying to appease her. Being OK with zero sex. Being OK with having everything her way. Letting her take charge of the relationship.
#7 I let my appearance slip -- focus on work and school, all that. Let it slide. I shouldn't have.
#8 I let her family into our marriage too much. It literally became insane. 
#9 I hid and lived another day rather than engage. Never, ever, EVER again. 

When we split, my mistakes were this:
#1 not defining what "separated" means. To her it meant going away for vacations with her boyfriend. To me it was going to MC to work on things and having space to think about it.
#2 trying to work on things when she clearly wasn't interested. Again, being too accomodating. A nice guy. You know what peaked her interest? When I started living single, and enjoying it.
#3 paying her bills. When only she lived in the place. Stopping paying the mortgage and the bills was a shocker. I still remember that conversation... "you need to put money in our account! The bills are all late!" A: "Why would I pay the bills in a place I haven't lived in for months?"
#4 not ripping the band aid off. Because I was weak, I dragged out the separation agreement. Because I was weak, I dragged out the realtors. Because I was weak, I dragged out telling all our friends. Because I was weak, I buried myself in work and booze and friends for months at a time.

I don't think she has any intention of returning, man. I just don't. I could be wrong. Ask her. You'll likely get a non-answer. Ask her what she's up to on the weekends. You'll likely get another non-answer.

Draw up a list. Your stuff and her stuff. Your debt and her debt. Your assets and her assets. Take it to a lawyer and ask her to sign it. If you get back together, you can tear it up.

Give her 5 days to decide to come back or leave for good.

One thing my MC taught be back then is that ANYTHING can be decided in 5 days. Not that she needs to move back in 5 days -- she needs to decide what needs to happen if that's going to happen, or it's never going to happen.

You should use that time to think about what YOUR list of things on that list would look like. Because if she decides to come home after a few months of living the high life single and 20's... and you welcome her with open arms...

It's likely gonna happen again. Or never really stop to begin with.

You have one life. Don't waste any more time in this place than you have to.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Have you thought that letting her go might be good for her? It may help her learn to grow up. She pretty much left home where her parents took care of her and then had a partner take care of her. She lacks a lot of experience when it comes to the broader world, and a 16 year old can change a lot to a person in their mid-twenties. From adolescent to young adulthood, we are building our personality, learning from mistakes and experience. Some people can grow together, but statistically marrying someone who is young and not fully developed mentally tends to end up in divorce.

Just work on your issues, and who knows, your issues may result from her behavior. You see someone irresponsible with money, and you control the finance in order to protect yourself. You learn not to trust her financial decisions. Sounds highly likely.

You may love her, but in reality, you both are not right for each other at the present, and relationships take more than love to make it work.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Have you thought that letting her go might be good for her? It may help her learn to grow up. She pretty much left home where her parents took care of her and then had a partner take care of her. She lacks a lot of experience when it comes to the broader world, and a 16 year old can change a lot to a person in their mid-twenties. From adolescent to young adulthood, we are building our personality, learning from mistakes and experience. Some people can grow together, but statistically marrying someone who is young and not fully developed mentally tends to end up in divorce.
> 
> Just work on your issues, and who knows, your issues may result from her behavior. You see someone irresponsible with money, and you control the finance in order to protect yourself. You learn not to trust her financial decisions. Sounds highly likely.
> 
> You may love her, but in reality, you both are not right for each other at the present, and relationships take more than love to make it work.




This is a great point. He may not be controlling if he actually finds a partner. .... he's assumed a controlling parent role. This is terrible for a marriage and is a result of him dating a 16 year old. 7 years at that age is HUGE, and an adult who gets involved in this has their own issues.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> 7 years at that age is HUGE, and an adult who gets involved in this has their own issues.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: 

And he is wisely facing them, and trying to work them out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

_... mental abuse is basically me being an idiot jerk who thought he was helping his wife diet by putting back the chocolate she puts into the shopping trolley and stuff like that. I should never have got involved with that and should have just kept telling her I think she is beautiful, because ironically that's the only reason I wanted to help her diet - so she could feel good about herself. She has body image issues. _


Ele, do you not think this is controlling? Would you accept this from a husband? Would you tell your stepdaughter to?

I think the biggest evidence of his being controlling is that he won't let go, won't move on. 


_*I always insisted we'd have kids eventually (no rush on when, both of us were fine with that) and that we'd move to my home country, NZ, when they were about five so they could go to school there. I get the feeling she didn't like that.* Again, if it were her or NZ, I'd pick her any day of the week, no questions asked. *I took our marriage for granted*, and that was the biggest mistake out of everything. But she also took my assumptions for granted, and* I did tell her on the Sunday that she needed to wrestle control back off me* more often. She said she did, but she never put it on the line, *she always asked and left it alone after I disagreed with her ideas (which I concede I may have done too often*). She should have just told me outright, it's not going to be that way, because otherwise I'm not happy with our marriage, or something like that.

More communication failures on both of our parts. It's not a blame thing on either person... it's just the both of us not getting that understanding right. *I never realised how strongly she felt about things, and she always assumed I felt more strongly about things than I did*. Gah. I feel at fault regardless. This post is a tiny thing, really, she never mentioned it after we split, but it just popped into my mind recently and I can't help but feel I could have handled all that kind of thing better. *She always wanted to move to NZ early in our relationship but as time went on she was less keen.*_


Again, does this not sound controlling, or at least feel like it to her?

She is not very assertive, and needs someone who will more naturally take into account her preferences. Otherwise she will leave him, too.

She does not want to be with TS. She will learn to handle her financial issues better this way anyway, as Mr. Fisty suggested. 

TS needs to stop trying to control her and _let her go._ If she is ever interested again, she will let him know.


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## TakingSteps (May 18, 2015)

Cheers everyone. Just that last line: I have stopped controlling her and I have let her go. She's gone. I didn't have a choice in the matter and I'm not chasing her. When she was over on Sunday, we sat down and talked a bit, she reiterated that she wants to be friends, while I made it clear that while she knows how I feel, I accept how she feels. It's painful for both of us right now and if I was to chase her it would be akin to shooting myself in the foot regardless. I'm not here to get quick fix advice on "how to win her back". I'm here to get advice on how to handle this time in my life, because I'm struggling emotionally and mentally. Yes, I want to eventually reconcile, absolutely. But I do realise she is not ready (and I don't know if she ever will want to).

So what I want to do now is do my best to be a good person in the current situation I'm in.

Finding happiness in things is my biggest problem at the moment. I can't stop thinking about her when I'm doing things. I've been doing what I can to socialise and to get on with work and whatnot but some days it is far more difficult than others. I was a really happy guy when we were together and gaming, socialising and TV/film were all right up there for me, and I would always enjoy such things. Even just sitting back and listening to new music. All those things are a drain on my emotions these days and I really hate that. The things that used to occupy me mentally, I struggle with for different reasons, but I do feel I'm working through them - I had a really productive workday today and I hope it'll continue like that, especially with me visiting the head office in the US next week.

Therapy and potentially medication will hopefully help me with these things but any support and advice you guys can offer would be fantastic. I'm talking to my parents about it, too, as they divorced and so have some of my friends. Just trying to be able to live right now.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

You cannot be friends. At least not right now. Dont accept this fallback position(request) of hers so quickly. You are divorcing. She cannot keep those parts or your personality/talents she chooses to keep around when she needs them. It only softens her landing, getting used to life without you. You need to work on letting her go in every way. Including communication. Nobody says its going to be easy, or what you want right now. But, its what you must do to get yourself back. This process will really suck at times, and at other times will be awesome, and since you really dont have much choice, why not just charge through the best way you can?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

The issue is that she hasn't grown up yet. You knew this, that's why you found yourself assuming a control daddy figure roll. It's not because you're a bad guy, it's because in your gut you didn't view her as an equal. Maybe she's not, but she's got to grow up on her own time frame. 

You knew this was the case and knew very well you were controlling like a parent, it just never occurred to you that she'd leave. Probably a dynamic you were used to.

Even if you somehow won her back you'd still have these issues. You really need to let it go and find someone you view as an equal and a partner. Eventually she would've started rebelling like the teenager you were treating her as, and nobody wants to have sex with their parent anyway. 

Maybe when she's at a different point in life you'd have a better chance but it's foolish to wait for it.

And no matter who you end up with putting the chocolate back is never going to be received well. Seriously, imagine you grab a 6 pack of beer and she just puts it right back.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

OK man.

Been there.

Nights will likely be the hardest. Have a buddy or two that you can call if the silence drives you crazy. Call anyone but her. Hell, I've called up the talking clock just to hear a human voice.

Or post here.

Sleep may be a problem. It was for me. Melatonin. Exercise. A drink (one or two max). 

I'd do handstand pushups with Massive Attack or Nine Inch Nails going full blast until I was going to pass out or puke. Then I'd do a dram of Scotch and pass out.

Tell your buddies. Work mates. Boss, teachers, whatever. Let them know you're going thru **** and they'll cut you some slack.

Hang out with friends. Fill up your time with hobbies. Positive things. You have a new life - go embrace it. Rock climbing. Hang gliding. Body building. Martial arts. Boxing. Join an amateur theatre company. Something.

Try on new versions of yourself. New music. New venues. New ideas. You get into a rut married, it's your chance to get out of it.

Make a bucket list of things you want to do before you ever get married again. Pick one or two and plan it out.

Millions of dudes have survived this. I have, and I'm weak. You can do it.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh, and whatever you do, don't "be friends."

Make a clean break of it. At least 6 months of no contact except for legal stuff. If you want to be friends after that, go ahead.

Watching her move on will rip your f'ing heart out, man. And just relieve her of her guilt. So it's a no-win scenario for you.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

lifeistooshort said:


> The issue is that she hasn't grown up yet. You knew this, that's why you found yourself assuming a control daddy figure roll. It's not because you're a bad guy, it's because in your gut you didn't view her as an equal. Maybe she's not, but she's got to grow up on her own time frame.
> 
> You knew this was the case and knew very well you were controlling like a parent, it just never occurred to you that she'd leave. Probably a dynamic you were used to.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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