# Dealing with spouses MLC



## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Hi All, 
the wife and I are in the early stages of separation, which she had asked for out of the blue. for a history, there is another thread.

I've done a lot of self reflection and learning trying to understand how to both react and support this situation, mainly for myself and kids, but also for her. 

From what I can tell, she is having a MLC, and I am looking for references on how do deal with this. we are very civil, I still love her dearly, she says she still loves me, but our relationship was not good (very true), and wants out. wants to be friends etc. 

So I am moving on, all the while hoping she wakes the F*** up. I accept my part in the bad relationship, as does she (at least a little). we are in MC, which is going well. we like the same people, the same entertainment (at least our tastes overlap considerably). we like each other and want to treat each other better. but she want;s out, I want in.

So, please, let's talk about what the F is going on with an MLC? can I support her, or just step back and hope she does not do anything too destructive. please suggest reading, both books and websites that have been helpful to you.

Please, limit comments pertaining to reacting out of anger. sure, I have anger, but I am not interested in dwelling there. I am interested in staying positive, and approaching this from a place of mindfulness. If it means losing my marriage, I have accepted the possibility. Peacefully coexisting as friendly ex.es is better that where we were. I am healthy, reasonably attractive, friendly, and fun. I am a professional with a reasonable income, and a good attitude toward life. It will be able to move on. I don't want to, but am very prepared to do so.

thanks all.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Labeling her reaction as an MLC is lazy thinking. It allows you to just put her in a category and disregard her feelings as legitimate.

You're in MC? Listen to her. Listen to what she says. And by the way, when you say things like, "I hope she just wakes the **** up", that is also ignoring and disrespecting her feelings. You are just assuming that she is being stupid, instead of considering the fact that she might have some real issues with your marriage.

START LISTENING.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> that is also ignoring and disrespecting her feelings. You are just assuming that she is being stupid,


No he's not disrespecting her feelings. He's rightfully disrespecting her actions which are disrespectful to their marriage vows. 

Her feelings are her feelings. The husband also has feelings and am sure he has at times felt like ignoring the marriage vows too. The difference is only in the actions.

While he stayed committed and wants to work on the marriage, his wife is seeking a separation. Who is doing the heavy lifting here?


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, Blindside, Syn and I almost always disagree, so now you have a couple of different points of view, and I'm sure the other comments will reflect that. Good advice for you, no matter which path you choose!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

lamaga said:


> Well, Blindside, Syn and I almost always disagree, so now you have a couple of different points of view, and I'm sure the other comments will reflect that. Good advice for you, no matter which path you choose!


Your posts always help me not fall off the other side of the cliff. We can all be extremists in our views, so an opposing view is essential to keep a balance.


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

Stop giving credit to this 'MLC' thing.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

UpnDown said:


> Stop giving credit to this 'MLC' thing.


Why?

I can cheat on my spouse and family then blame it on MLC.


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## lamaga (May 8, 2012)

Well, Keko, you can do that, and then I can explain to you why that is lazy thinking.

But you cannot do it for someone else. It's a way of simply discounting that they may have serious concerns. Oh, it's just MLC.

I know you're not female, but it's the equivalent of trying to bring up a serious problem with your boyfriend and having him ask, "oh, are you on the rag?" It's completely dismissive, and I don't think it's productive for those who want to heal a relationship. If you just want to dismiss a relationship, then sure, go for it. it's a great excuse!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

there you are blindsided, see you made a new thread ok well keep us updated
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UpnDown (May 4, 2012)

keko said:


> Why?
> 
> I can cheat on my spouse and family then blame it on MLC.


That's great for HER, she can go have her MLC but he doesn't need to be dreading over it. MLC falls into the category of the things SHE IS DOING, which, if she wants a divorce .. are no longer his concern. His concern falls on himself and how to better HIS situation, not fix her so called "MLC".

Trying to figure out her "MLC" is just another way of saying "how can I control her situation".


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

"
Labeling her reaction as an MLC is lazy thinking. It allows you to just put her in a category and disregard her feelings as legitimate.

You're in MC? Listen to her. Listen to what she says. And by the way, when you say things like, "I hope she just wakes the **** up", that is also ignoring and disrespecting her feelings. You are just assuming that she is being stupid, instead of considering the fact that she might have some real issues with your marriage.

START LISTENING."


Lamaga, thank you. While it is much more complicated than your assumption, you really hit the point of one of our (my) problems. your post was like a slap in the face, and as a result, we had a fantastic conversation last nite. I am a terrible listener (warning: dude cliche). While I have been a good provider, and helper with the kids and the housework, I completely lost myself trying to help her. I did not "listen" to her or support her emotionally. We were both lost in buried resentments, and treating each other like *******s.

My post is the post of a guy who has, for almost a month, been dealing with the pain and agony of realizing that I have treated her like a dog, realizing that she has treated me like a POS, and I was acting like one. Realizing that she really is the one who I love more than anything. Coming to a point where I am not blaming her for our terrible relationship. Seeing her let go of resentment, and emerge from a chrysalis like a butterfly to be the woman that I fell in love with. Hearing her tell me that she lost herself trying to become someone who she thought I wanted her to be, and telling her that the parts that I love are the parts that are real, and the pretend was never what I liked in the first place. Admitting that I probably fed into this cycle out of resentment towards her. Hearing her finally tell me after 12 years that she likes me, loves me. Hearing that she has no interest in making the marriage work. she want to be alone. she want to be friends. 

It was a post of a guy who has 2 wonderful young children, and wants to do anything to keep that family together. A person who is finally trying to listen and act appropriately. A person who thinks that by understanding where my wife is, I can accept what is happening. I am trying to understand whether I need to be ready to wait for her to go thru her journey, or need to get out. As I said, she says she is done with the marriage. I want to know if this is MLC talking, a "temporary" thing, or something else. She has asked for space, I am giving it to her. I want her to find herself as badly as she does, both because I feel her pain and "lostness", and I love her; but also because I hope that when she finds herself, she will come back to me, to us.

It is the post of a person who, with all this weight on his head, wants to remain strong. The post of a guy who definitely has some anger at her for not wanting to try. A person who does not want to fall off the cliff of despair.

If you want me to elaborate on why I think it may be an MLC, I'd be happy to. Just ask instead of assuming a guy who posts something  insensitive is just lazy, and disrespecting of his wife; while I admit on re-read that this is how it comes across. I'm a reforming ******* who is frantically trying to listen and support, who is trying very hard be improve myself, for myself, for my kids, and finally for the woman who I am madly in love with, and like a hell of a lot.

So, please, any references or personal experiences on either going thru or being run over by a MLC would be greatly appreciated. Of course, I'm looking for hope, so positive stories are welcome, but I know I need to prepare and accept the negatives too.

And- please, I have heard plenty of calls re: EA/PA. I am aware, vigilant. I don't need or want to hear about it anymore. I don't want to go to that negative place of paranoia and anger. I am being vigilant and aware, rest assured. Honestly, if it was/is an EA, I am actually thankful. I have myself back as a result of all this whirlwind, and am happier (and sadder) than I've ever been. It's like I hit rock bottom, and have found Grace. I finally feel like me, and embrace me. I don't think I've ever been here, with such comfort about who I am, who I want to be.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Another point- I have told her my feelings, we have talked about them in MC and outside. I told her I hope she comes back, and I wanted to try to woo her back. she told me trying to woo pushes her away, so I am no longer doing that. I am trying to listen to her needs. trying to learn to listen.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Allowing herself to be swept away by her MLC is just as disloyal to the marriage vows as adultery. In my completely novice and amateur opinion on the matter, the best way to end the MLC is just like ending an affair (if they are even entirely separate things) kill the fantasy. She is infaturated with the fantasy of being with someone who provides all her needs and pampers her for the rest of her life. Of course we all know this doesn't exist, in real life marriage, relationships and even survival is hard work. So bring her back to reality by nuking the fantasy.

If it was OM its easy you just find out who it is and expose it to every adult who knows him. fantasy single life is a little harder though because it means letting her go do it alone, except of course it is easy for most disloyals in that position to just simply attract and use up people, and it may take her many years or decades of burning through relationships in order to figure out it was within her all along to work on and fnd her own happiness.


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## allthegoodnamesaregone (Nov 18, 2011)

Well, I was where you are last July, if it's truly MLC there is nothing you can do but let them go. At first you'll dump all kinds of blame on yourself, cut them all kinds of slack while they go "Find themselves". Generally where they find themselves is in the arms of someone else, and that someone has been in the wings for quite a while.

With MLC it's all about them, nothing else matters, your whole married life will eventually have it's history revised in a negative way. As soon as you agree to a separation it will be like switch has gone off in her brain, you wife will become an alien you won't recognize after she leaves.

Chances are a year from now looking back you will recall odd behavior leading up to her wanting to go that are all red flags for infidelity and realize no amount of listening, understanding or MC would have made any difference, her plan was well set well before you knew anything was going on.

All that said, maybe you're one of the lucky ones and this is just a blip in your marriage, I hope for the sake of you and your kids that's the case, but I'd be prepared for the worst.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Lon, not sure I totally agree, though I like the sentiment. I think there is definitely a little "grass is greener" in there. But, I dont think I can be the one to point that out. I like our MC, and hope that she will guide the wife there. this is where my "hope she wakes the F** up" comment comes from. But, seriously, if it is just MLC, this is beyond my control, and I have to let it happen. If I find EA, that's another story.

Also, I see her growing and becoming confident before my eyes. I also see her pain. she is dealing with stuff from her core, her childhood, and her family as well as our past crappy relationship. I want her to succeed. I really hope success includes me, but if not, then I am strong and will survive, and continue to thrive.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I think you are being too nice, but I understand. If you refuse to not be nice with her about this, I would nicely and kindly tell her good luck as you send her out the door, remind her that you love her and wanted to make it work but that this is her choice, that you refuse to be in a marriage with someone that doesn't want to be married to you, and that you will not be waiting around for her.

Then I'd let her go from my heart and move on, try to adjust to being single again and that means taking the good (freedom and no excuses to hold you back) with the bad (loneliness, rejection, no longer having that intimate connection to someone you love).


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

lamaga said:


> Well, Blindside, Syn and I almost always disagree, so now you have a couple of different points of view, and I'm sure the other comments will reflect that. Good advice for you, no matter which path you choose!


And I agree with different points you both have made.

I agree that just discounting this as an MLC is lazy thinking. Good point.

I also think he should listen. As she should listen to him.

But yes her actions are distressing.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Just from my own experience with MLC an EA is already in progress or coming. The sucky thing is she is like a deaf person...she can't hear a darn word you are saying..she's in the fog from what this sounds like. I feel for you, it sucks I put my hubby thru hell before I woke up..It's like being on drugs ...you don't think about the people in your life that you're hurting. Untill she leaves the home and you begin the process of seperation or divorce then there might be a chance and who knows how long after that it will take till she may want you back..it's hard for her to believe the changes in you are real and that they will last, she doesn't want to be unhappy anymore and is afraid that you two will land up in that same rut. This is all juast my opinion from my own experience
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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I agree with Lon
Dealing with a MLC is very much like dealing with an A
You need to let her go, find her own way, and imPlement some kind of 180 and hope she'll do a 'Bo Peep'
My H had a MLC and A last year. I often comented in my posts that it was as if an alien had abducted the man I'd known for 18 years and replaced him with a stranger.
Only when I let him go and started moving on with my life did he realise the huge mistake he was making.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I agree with Lon
> Dealing with a MLC is very much like dealing with an A
> You need to let her go, find her own way, and imPlement some kind of 180 and hope she'll do a 'Bo Peep'
> My H had a MLC and A last year. I often comented in my posts that it was as if an alien had abducted the man I'd known for 18 years and replaced him with a stranger.
> ...


You are soo right!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Yes, that feels right, and she has told me as much. She told me that when I said I want to win her back, it pushes her away. So I am trying to be honest without being foreword. 

I Have been moving in that direction, but need to continue and focus it a bit. I have told her my true feelings, but am also a bit indifferent to her on a day to day basis. I have urged her to move out etc. I am connecting with friends a lot, which I almost never did 'cuz I hated myself. I've been working out, and generally enjoying myself and others. Connecting with family. Actually, I think I am in a better place than she is at the moment..?.

Today at MC, I brought up fidelity and boundaries in our situation. We talked about her. I Told her I was worried also for myself. I am the jilted one, and have been without love for a long time. The convo evolved and I told her there was a woman at work that I have a crush on, which is true. I avoid any dangerous situations, because I want *no* more complications, and said as much. she was shocked for a second, but regained composure. 

Saying 180 sounds like playing head games, but I am starting to feel it. So it's a slowish evolution. 

I am taking the kids to visit family with me (3000 miles away) for 2 weeks in a week. while she goes to Mexico for a week. I can't wait. I'm gonna get a tattoo that I've wanted for the past 6 years, but she was worried about what her parents would think. I'm free now! Take me as I am, or leave!

Wow, life is complicated! Think good thoughts in my direction, please!


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

Yes the 180 does sound like playing head games but you dont need to implement all the rules, i didnt, just went with the ones i was able to, and honestly it really helps. The 180 is designrd to protect yourself and help you move on, but can also help your spouse to "wake up" or realise what they have to lose.

The Divorce Remedy is a good read.

i begged, pleaded, tried to reason, did everything to try and make my H "wake up" because i knew he was dep in MLC and A fog. None of it worked.so if you are doing this, please stop now. Instead i validated his feelings, told him he was right, said what he was feeling was ok and it was hard but it worked.

I let go of the drama and told him that i didnt want to be part of it, i let him make his mistakes and let him go, and guess what? He didnt want to be "let go" afterall.

I know our situations are different but im Sure some of the Divorce Busting/180 techniques will help ypu.

Good Luck


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

DG, thanks. 

It has been therapeutic to tell her my true feelings, and to owe up to my part of our relationship that had become toxic. I sort of begged be to consider trying. nothing. she told me that when I "try" it pushes her away more. I have listened. I am really ready for her to get out. It is hard, because she says she likes me alot, loves me still, wants to be close friends, but want's to be alone, wants divorce. 

She is house sitting for the week starting tonite. Im both sad and relieved! There is a part of me that just wants her out of my life- she is so selfish right now. totally self absorbed. she does need to find herself again, but she seems to blame me for all of her stuff... it breaks my heart, but there is nothing I can do but protect my self.

I have a history of thinking "love will fix everything". If I can just love her enough, show her enough love, she will be fixed.... I got hurt using this logic in a past relationship, so I'm aware of it, but I also think that it is still in me. 

anyway, I had a great fathers day with the kids, and that is the important thing! now to cook some pizza


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I was the same way..selfish, I even was saying that I'm going thru a selfish phase, blamed everything on him yet told him I love him but love him like I would a relative..without u she may realise how wrong she is.. I was so wong and i know 100 percent that I am totally in love with my husband but man I was lawyer shopping before I finally woke up.. hang in there I know she is hurting the hell outa you, gosh thinking back I hate what I put my husband thru.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, thank you, thank you thank you. you really give me hope and strength. Underneath all of my fear and anger, my intuition tells me that it will work out. you help me listen to it, and trust it. 

And, I know you regret your stuff. But if my experience tells us anything, there is always some positive that can come out of terrible situations. I am willing to bet that if you had not gone so extreme, your relationship would have atrophied to nothing over years and years (ugh!!). 

Speaking for myself here; I have found great connections with friends and most importantly family that I had forgotten in my fog, or never even had (especially with my sister). I have had a multitude of personal revelations, and am actually grateful to my wife for all this... sounds strange, but I really am. I hope with all of my heart that we work out. but if not, I finally love myself (after 38 years!); she can't take that away. And I am also 100% sure that I love her. Let's just get her there too! 

And you are here, helping another soul who needs it, and I am eternally grateful! 

I don;t want to read too much into it, but i was going to watch a movie on netflix tonite, and in the history from either Friday or last nite (I was out with friends, while W was home), and she watched "Secrets to Love". I watched it, and it totally inspired me. She may not have taken the same meaning from it as I did, but the fact that she watched the whole thing gives me a glimmer of hope. Essentially, it talks about the importance of working thru problems in a marriage instead of running away, and how to do that with professional help.

peace.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Blind,I'm CSS's husband,kinda know what your going through.If I can help or lend a ear,let me know.Feel free to Pm me.
I'd never make it as a counslor but I understand what youre going through.
Dont throw in the towel just yet
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Hi Calvin, thanks! It is good to hear from someone who is familiar with what I am going thru. All of my friends think I'm crazy for wanting/hoping it will work out. I'm beginning to think so too! thx for the encouragement! it means a lot to me.

anyway, the website says you don;t allow PMs- so I sent a friend request. I dont fully understand this website yet...


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Well, she is house sitting tonite again. 

it's nice. ;-)

earlier, we couldn't get video chat working so I could say good nite to the kids. she did not have the friends wifi password.

Well, she just called while I was showering- left a message that she got the PW and wanted to try out the vid chat (new phone). Kids are long in bed, so I'm not calling back.

the doormat in me wants to call back. but she asked for the space, right?


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> the doormat in me wants to call back. but she asked for the space, right?


Give her lots of it. I gave it to my wife and she was forced to triple the number of hours she works, buy an older car, move back to her parents' and lose all our mutual friends!

Some space!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

You might have your PM setting off,check it out.
Synth is right,give her all the space she wants,thats kinda what I had to do to,it did'nt take too long for CSS to wake the hell up and realise where she was heading,you have to give them that "tough love" sometimes,they will hate you for it but it can help bring them around
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

What is PM?


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Last nite, I listened to her message at least 10 times. Heard 'her' in that voice, and wanted to call so badly, but didn't. 

God, I miss her, but at the same time, am so p****d off.

We have MC today. Thinking of bringing some not so nice. She is terrified of a nasty divorce- her parents had 10 years of battles after 10 years of brutal verbal fights. I love her, but this is getting ridiculous. 

Plus, she goes to Mexico Friday... I am freaking out! At least I will have the kids for 2 weeks on my home turf.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Wasn't the guy you suspected of being involved with your wife, also in mexico?


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> What is PM?


Private message
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hldnhope (Apr 10, 2012)

>>>Just a side-note: This is why I come here and why it has been so helpful; to know that there are people going through the same problems I am. It is just so hard to try to explain this situation to friends/family when they can not possibily understand the situation. I have been told be just about everyone to 'let her go', but I need to make sure I have done everything possible for myself and my kids first. I just can't imagine the hurt to my kids if we split/divorce...

Thank you TAM!


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

keko, yes he is. hence my fear/ strength right now. MC this afternoon- the last one b4 the trip. 

I'm planning on telling her in the nicest way possible that I need her to stay away from me. not sure I will get that far, but I need to protect myself and kids from impending crazieness.

Calvin- duh! brain fart! I'll check my settings. Judging from the upcoming trip, I imagine I have a crisis pending... may need support!


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

So, W drops kids off at work (we are very small, and family company) this AM (9:30- not early or anything) after last nite house sitting with them.. she had a music lesson to teach for an hour.

-younger kid had gotten frustrated with older, and scratched her pretty good on the face this AM. she's 3.5, and when she gets frustrated, she is can by physical. on the face is a new one, tho.
-kids were starving. said they had just a little cereal (no fruit etc) for bfast.
-I asked if they had fun last nite on their adventure. they said yes, "but mom just sat in the little room and watched TV. that's all she did!"
-she asked if I could keep them for another couple of hours while she went to the store. I asked them if they wanted to go shopping or stay at work with me. they stayed- ;-)

please, give me strength, but I don't want to be mean. I'm getting p****d.

Calvin, CSS, is this how it was for you guys?


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Not quite sure I'm following you here Blind,whats up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

seems like she is not finding the happiness that she thought she would find on being away from 'us'. 

I wanted to give her space so she could find herself. sitting around watching TV all nite does not sound like soul searching to me. from what I can tell, there was alot of stress with the kids too, which I am not happy about either. 

I'm feeling taken advantage of.

I am angry. I want to express my anger; but I can be passive aggressive because I'm the nice guy, the doormat. Trying to focus my thoughts b4 MC today.

I guess my question is: when CSS left you, was she lost and "useless", while still blaming you? that is what I am seeing in W here. 

should I pull punches, tell her my feelings? which are basically "I think you have been /are making a cowardly decision (in wanting divorce), and are not doing what is right for the kids or yourself. BUT if you choose to do so, I can;t and don't want to stop you. so go; I want nothing to do with it. I love you too much, and it hurts me too much to see."


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> seems like she is not finding the happiness that she thought she would find on being away from 'us'.
> 
> I wanted to give her space so she could find herself. sitting around watching TV all nite does not sound like soul searching to me. from what I can tell, there was alot of stress with the kids too, which I am not happy about either.
> 
> ...


Blind,its similar to what we ( I ) went through,yes she was useless,every bad thing that happened to her was my fault in her eyes,I was standing between her and her happiness ( can you say fantasy?),she laid the blame on me 100%,I even asked her about the kids,they did'nt matter either just her "happiness".
I did every thing I could to stop her,I knew she was going to fall big time with the loser she considered her k night in shinning armor (she learned a lot about this guy after I dug up some crap on him),her knight turned out to be a nightmare.I get it with the kids and house work and all but I was a machine that was expected to keep up 65 hours a week,6 days a week at work.
CSS has bad anxiety,a terrible upbring ( Mommy Dearest looked like a saint compared to her mother). We both took each other for granted,we both failed.
I Can tell you MC will do you no good right now,her mind was always on OM,she told me she did'nt want me wanted him,I cried,I tried.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I begged pleaded,I changed,I took away all the gripes she had about me,she had nothing to ***** about no more.She gaslighted me,told me I was paranoid,lied...well you get the picture.
I finally realised it was'nt all my fault.Me and the kids came up with a game plane to carry on without her,I was letting her go,thats what she wanted so...goodbye,roughest thing I've ever had to doAfter I kicked her out I know it gave her time to think,yes I let her back and she still was fogged up for awhile.
I think it was when she hit rock bottom only did she start doing some deep thinking.What ever she had planed with OM wasnt going to work at all,she knew it. I will never go through this again.
Stay focused on you and your kids,let her go,or at least show her you are preparing to move on,I was,its hard but you can do it.
You need to look out for you kids best interest and yours,if your wife wants to re-live he youth,then let her and you move on.
It's time for some tough love Blind,dont be a d!ck but show her you are serious.
CSS?....Care to chime in here,the man needs help.
I wish you the best my man,dont get weak,stay the course.Dont know if I'm helping and I hope this makes sense,I'm only 4 months into R and it still hurts like hell sometimes but its getting better
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

It's good to have someone on that understands. I'm not alone.

MC in 10 minutes...


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

This is all true..my kids oh my God...they also went thru hell of losing me. This is hard to talk about and I can't really explain what I was even thinking but I wasn't gone very long. The things I said to Calvin...uggg it kills me to think about..I kept looking at him like I didn't care about anything anymore.. it was all about me. I guess that is what they call the fog. My son wrote on my fb wall and said "mom why are you doing this to us?" and I didn't respond. My son is 13o and daughter 18 and one morning I came home to get them off to school and they ignored me. Calvin treated me as if I didn't belong in the family anymore and that they would be fine without me. Maybe your situation is a bit different with younger kids, I don.'t know but I'll never do that again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

I told her. ouch, that was hard. She is very stuck on our toxic ways, how she was hurt, how she hurt me. How she took it and doesn't want to any more (good for her!!). (I took it too, and absolutely refuse to take it ever again.) that;s where we differ. she thinks she will fall back into it. I for some reason do not. I think we will rise like a phoenix from the ashes. But it takes 2, and she has no interest. She wants to continue MC, and we will, but not until August- between our and the councilor's travel schedules.

I need to work on acceptance regarding the upcoming trip to Mexico. I feel like i;m about to enter crazy town (or maybe I already have).


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Uggg that other guy she likes is in Mexico...She's playing you...this is not good. She's not gonna admit it but she's going to see him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you monitoring her computer/phone usage? Anything new about a possible get-together in mexico with that guy?


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

No....No way she should take off and run,find a different counselor....or dont.It would not do any good right now anyway.My wife did'nt listen to a damn thing our couselor said and he sucked as a MC,wouldnt have mattered if we had a good one either,my wife had plans that did'nt include me.
If you really want to fix this,dont let her go to Mexico,find a new MC,and open your eyes,she is interested in some one,take it from a person who went through this crap already,nip it now.
Sorry man but your giving her room to roam.
Toughen up.Let her know how you feel.
Dont sugarcoat sh!t.
If she will not stay and work on the problems you both have,then you are #2. Dont let it happen.
Sorry Man......Its not a good feeling
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

If she goes then it's time to see a laywer, get custody of kids and house
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Maybe she needs to hit rock bottom. I did; and bounced.

Gotta put kids to bed. Be back later.

Peace


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> Maybe she needs to hit rock bottom. I did; and bounced.
> 
> Gotta put kids to bed. Be back later.
> 
> Peace


But the question is will you take her back/look at her with the same eyes after she's been with another man?


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Keko, my honest answer is I don't know.
I do not have control here. I try to 'make' her not go, how will that help anything? Especially if there is nothing inappropriate happening? She is visiting Mexico to see her dad, brother, as well as find space. Of course I am freaked out, but I do not have any control. I have 1 final ace up my sleeve- but am saving it until the last minute...

I am doing the best thing I can do- taking the kids for 2 weeks to be with my family. I will be centered, and strong, and away. Surrounded by loving friends and family. She will be with her crazy a** dad who treats her brother like a POS. she will be partying with her brother, who only works 15 minutes a day. She will get 0 sleep, burn out, then she will return to our beautiful house, surrounded by lush sunflower gardens that I planted for her before this crazy crapstorm started. (She has stated that she has no interest in drinking and making mistakes of her pAst- numbing out her feelings. So either she is headed into the lions den, or will come back strong and proud of herself.

I told her today she needs to talk to a realtor to evaluate the house value so we can tell whether we can sell or need to be creative. I told her I have called a lawyer, but have not talked with yet. I told her she needs to file separation papers. None of which she has even considered yet.

Told her that I paid off and canceled all but 1 credit card. Used emergency savings to do it. We Are dangerously close to big $$ problems.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

I logged into her FB. Nothing significant. she has messaged with OM, but nothing significant. He is brother's friend, and discussions revolved around that. I do get a sense of her reaching out to him, seems could be pre stages EA. she thinks it is totally innocent. he does not seem interested. 

I have actually messaged him on FB. no response...

this is like watching a slowmotion train wreck. self destructive behavior is hard to watch, and impossible to stop from the outside. you can't make a crack head stop, you can only disengage, and hope they see the light.

Seems like anything I might do would likely push her further into it. I can only tell her how I feel. I told her I love her, think she is making a cowardly decision to run away, and want no part in a friendship with her if this is how she wants to act. since she has decided she wants a divorce, I feel there is little impact that this can make. 

this is unbelievably painful, but not nearly as painful as living was before all this crap started to go down.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> I logged into her FB. Nothing significant. she has messaged with OM, but nothing significant.


Without reading all of this thread...are you assuming that she doesn't know you're looking at her FB? FB will send notifications of log in locations, times, different devices used, etc. She probably knows you're logging into her account, so you're seeing the "clean" version of her messages.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, would it have helped you in the throws of your fog if someone who had gone thru it already had contacted you? Told you her story? Again, I don't think EA (yet), but all other signs sound very similar to your story. I think impending EA is very likely.

If you think it may work, would you be willing to contact? Or, do you think if I copy/pasted your responses together and emailed them to her it might jar her a little awake?

I completely understand if this is beyond where you are willing to go for a stranger, or think it would not help. you have already helped me tremendously, and I appreciate it and expect no more. 

I don't think it would help, but at the same time I just don't know and wish there was something else that could be done.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

thunderstruck said:


> Without reading all of this thread...are you assuming that she doesn't know you're looking at her FB? FB will send notifications of log in locations, times, different devices used, etc. She probably knows you're logging into her account, so you're seeing the "clean" version of her messages.


This and she might even have fake fb or email accounts for the deeper conversations.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

thunder, I am careful. I have assured her that I believe her about no EA or anything. she believes herself there is nothing there- just bro's friend. I installed KSL, got PWs, logged onto her email incase that email was sent out so as to delete it. did it when I was sure she was sleeping.

i've been watching KSL and screen grabs for a while.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

blind - what is KSL?


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

fake FB is possible, but unlikely. again, maybe she needs to hit rock bottom. I am not god, and not all seeing. I know what I see.

I had an EA on her with a lady named Marijuana for years, so damage has been done on my part too. Not making excuses for her (with a dude is way worse in my opinion, but still, what I did was inexcusable. I told her as much at MC yesterday.), but understanding the extent of the relationship impacts recently, I sort of feel where she is emotionally.

but I digress.
boy, next couple of days are sure to be a roller coaster.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

key stroke logger


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Well Calvin had me read a thread on here once..I read it and totally felt like I could relate to the post and that was about it..it did not change or help a thing. God I hate myself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I guess you have to let her go, let her hit bottom and when or if she is ready then pick her up and help her put herself back together again..after that she will need to put you together again..after that is the triggers, rollercoaster ride and tons of mental instability...If she never comes back then it will be time for acceptance and to worry about yourself..good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

So what she says about OM is that she is so happy that her bro has friends. she really likes them, has been worried about bro trapped in mex with no friends after his divorce. is very grateful to them, especially this 'OM'. Story sounds totally legit, but I don't buy it based on all the other crap. I think she does, though.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

You shouldn't try to stop her from going to Mexico. As much as its hurting you, it will just push her further away from you. You can't and shouldn't try to control her actions right now. You can only control your own. Be brave, be strong and rise above it!

Let her go!!

She needs to find out for herself that the grass isn't greener. And she will. Do not initiate contact while she is away and keep any conversations friendly but to the point. 
I know realise my H HAD to experience the seperation and time away from me and the family for hum to realise what he was about to lose. No one could have rhymed or reasoned with him. He adores our daughter and he saw the tears she shed over him not being here and he still didn't come out of his fog. When we talk about it now it's so painful for him that he ever did that.

The next 2 weeks are going to be tough. But you can do it. Do some fun things with the kids and have a few evenings out.
Take care
DG
X
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

yep what Daisy said is correct..it sucks like crazy but it's very true
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, sounds just like her. regarding the movie i mentioned b4 that inspired me. It showed several loving couples, they had gone thru bad times (affairs, etc) and reconciled. we talked briefly about at MC.

she said, "well, that doesn't sound like us. all those couples began in love, and I dont think we did. they had something to get back to, and i don't think we do."

The F*** it doesn't! The F** we don't! I said as much. she is just lost in crazy town, and I just need to let go. I will send her photos of the kids having a great time with me every day. that's all. I have taken her off my FB share list- so Ive gone dark. no more texts. gotta let her fall.

should I contact her parents? again, i feel like that is more likely to backfire.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

daisy, right on. thanks.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sorry blindsided
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

thx CSS. 

I am strong. I love myself. I'll be ok. I'll be sad, angry, and happy too. 

I am working out alot, finding old and new friends, eating well, not drinking or smoking. I don;t need her, just want her- for some reasons that are beyond her.

thru adversity comes growth. I just hope she grows too.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> CSS, sounds just like her. regarding the movie i mentioned b4 that inspired me. It showed several loving couples, they had gone thru bad times (affairs, etc) and reconciled. we talked briefly about at MC.
> 
> she said, "well, that doesn't sound like us. all those couples began in love, and I dont think we did. they had something to get back to, and i don't think we do."
> 
> ...


BSD -- DO not send her any photos of you and the kids. You have to detach from her. It will really suck -- but she needs to miss you. By you constantly contacting her -- you are not giving her the chance.

She has already checked out of the marriage -- now it's time for you and the kids to have fun without her.
This was her choice -- let her live it.

No contact with her -- unless it is about the kids.

This will suck -- but you have to let go --- to see if she comes back. Maybe she will --- maybe she won't.

Good luck.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Thanks for the encouragement. no pics. not email. no texts but for the kids.

I want to tell her how much I love her, how much I miss her. how special she is.

get the 2x4s ready.


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## jh52 (Apr 29, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. no pics. not email. no texts but for the kids.
> 
> I want to tell her how much I love her, how much I miss her. how special she is.
> 
> get the 2x4s ready.


1000 2X4s coming your way.........DO NOT TELL HER YOU LOVE HER.

You are being weak in her eyes -- and when we are weak --we are not very attractive.

THink about this.


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

^^^^^ and if you do have a weak moment don't beat yourself up over it. Just put it behind you and move on!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> Thanks for the encouragement. no pics. not email. no texts but for the kids.
> 
> I want to tell her how much I love her, how much I miss her. how special she is.
> 
> get the 2x4s ready.


I got no 2x4s for you. I'll just stand beside you while others practice their 2x4ing.

I'm in the same boat


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

umm that aint gonna work, it will just annoy her
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, you rock. everything you say, she has said. you give me a little window into her mind. I see the turmoil. 

I will not tell her. I want to, but I will not. Instead, I will do some pullups, and hug the kids.

this AM, my 6 year old was complaining that mommie always is listening to music on her headphones, that she does it too much.

i'm p****d.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

she is listening to Hallelujah over and over. she is in a dark spot.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

So you had an EA you said correct? Do you remember being very distracted and distancing yourself from your wife because you couldn't wait to hear from your OW? Do you remember the fog? All your wife is thinking about is that guy in Mexico. She may not be talking to him now but it sounds like she's trying to get rid of you to help her feel free from guilt so that she feels she can do whatever she wants when she gets there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

No, I did not have a real EA- I was a big stoner. smoked pot even when I told her I would not. lied about it. this was several years ago.
but, in retrospect, pot was my mistress, so I can sort of relate in some sense. I did not want to hear about her day, I just wanted to get high, then maybe listen. I can relate especially to her pain, of which I had no clue, nor care, at the time. 

but, I see your point. she does have big guilt. she is being very nice to me- it's not like her. say's it's bc she wants to be friends, she likes me, and for the kids. I told her I don't want to be friends.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

giggling at myself for not noticing that you were talking about smoking pot lol, darn blonde hair of mine..I also quit being mad and wanted to be friendly with Calvin...it's so she can feel in harmony with her bad decisions
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

And, to clarify, I should probably not directly confront her about EA, or the possibility and it's repercussions either, correct? 

I don't have any real evidence, and if she found out i snooped, that would drive her into it more.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

you already confronted her didn't you? It will make her squirm and or eventually admit it like I did.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

If you don't have any evidence don't confront her, very likely she'll gaslight you. With the upcoming trip I would be more worried about PA then EA.

Even if you do gather some evidence do not show her what or how you got it, just tell her you know it.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Crap. freaking out. cant concentrate. I want to yell and scream at her. that's not like me. 

it's only Wednesday!


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Ok, I need to publicly humiliate my self so as to not make the same mistake again. I wrote this email early this AM in response to some unanswered questions she had in MC yesterday. I see now how it comes across as weak and unattractive, even desperate. my intention was to show strength... no more emails!

writing helps me sort this all out, but from now on, I am just going to save them, not send!

>>
You are a wonderful person.
I like the way that you want a better life for yourself
I like the way you smell
I like you
I like the real you.
You are so cute
You are so proud
You are so beautiful
You are so strong and sure
You are fun and kidna funny

I love when we can talk, and I hear what is going on in your head. I want to know every way that I have hurt you. I want to hear everything that excites you, scares you and inspires you. I know this sounds like BS, but it’s true. I never did. I know. I don’t fully understand, but I think it’s the old adage about how “you” can’t love another until you love your self. Since I have found self-love, a whole new world has opened up. Like I’ve been living in that crappy apartment on we used to live in, and all of a sudden, I found a secret door to a palace that’s been there all along. I think this palace is love. It is new, and I am confused and a little scared that it is an illusion. Time will tell, I suppose. I am afraid that when we are finally broken up, (or reconciling) the palace will come crashing back in on itself, and I’ll be back in that little ****hole. Scared ****less. So I am working out, eating well, feeling *all* of my feelings, trying to be the best I can be- feeding the love. I am accepting my feelings- all of them. I am allowing myself to have fantasies- to dream. (You are one of my dreams. (But not the mean you!))

Self-love is what allowed me to face my numbing and denial issue. Self love is what is giving me strength to face my mom and talk to her without worrying about the guilt and defensiveness that she is sure to lay down. Self love is what gives me the strength to both admit how much I care for you, and to realize that it is a hopeless quest. It is also giveing me the strength to move on inorder to protect myself.

Self love is how I can see the BS from my past, accept, regret, apologize and then let go and try to be a better person. Feeling it is how in the middle of our life falling to pieces, I can say I’ve never been so happy. It’s true, because I’ve never really loved myself (or at least not since I can remember. I think individual counseling will help me figure that out. Always thought it had something to do with parent’s divorce, and mom’s subsequent re-marriage when I was 6, then divorce when 8. This is part of why I am willing to fight so hard to make us work. Let me be clear- I do not want to go back to anywhere near where we were.)

if you are wondering, Pain and fear is what makes me be a jerk to you, like yesterday. I wish I could be perfect, I want to treat you like a goddess, even when I feel my heart being torn out of my chest, Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade style. but I am bitter. I am not perfect, I am human. I am hurting.

Anyway- starting to ramble. I just needed to get it out. I hope you don't mind.
>>


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

her suitcase is here. I want to both put something sweet into it, but also something nasty.

remind me to be above all that, please!


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Be above all that.

It's very hard I know, but it's the right thing to do. Try to do only the right thing from now on.

Read how bad I'm struggling with this myself. It's a mindf***. Impossible sometimes.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Well, it was a completely emotionless good-by tonite. she leaves at 4:30 AM.

I'm a little sad, but being so darn shut out is starting to get on my nerves... I am starting to remember how crappy she treated me in the mariage. For the past month, I have really been focusing on self improvement. I have been focusing on my part in our toxic relationship. Now, I am coming back to her part, and feeling it.

She said she wants to separate because she lost herself in our relationship. she said that she wants to grow, and fullfil herself, be true to herself and can only do that alone. thinks she can only be happy alone.

In this crazy month, I have not seen her grow (not that I've seen her much). I have not seen much of any effort. She admits that she played a part in the toxic relationship, but that is about the extent of it. Has stated no regrets (this is one of my 'resentments'- she almost never regrets being mean to me, says "well, I was mad" (so it;s totally justified, instead of "I feel bad I was mean- i was really mad"). And she does not forgive. Any way, details, details details.

I'm very excited about my trip with the kids! just what the Dr ordered! connecting with old friends, and family. My sister is going thru something very similar with her man- though not as bad as my situation. It is good to hear what is going on in her mind.

So I'm probably going to write a lot about my resentments of W- she has done her fair share of communicating hers to me (both in the marriage, and in MC)- oh- there's another one!!!). 

Please remind me not to send her a nasty email (or any email)! I really want to! 

Ill save it for MC...


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Ha. so this detaching thing is helpful. she just came out, and we had a civil conversation about some stuff. I told her essentially what I was writing above- that I have been trying to make amends, and focusing on my part in this mess, but I have a [email protected] of resentment towards her. she said "i know". She suggested that my self improvements of late were an effort at amends. I said "OH H**L NO they are not! I have found happiness, and I hope to god that you do too. it feels great. Everything I've done is for me. NOT FOR YOU." that felt great.

this time it was a pleasant, civil, if not 'professional' good by.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I know I'm not your mother or teacher or anything but I gotta say I am so proud of you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Thx, CSS! It felt really good to say to her, and I said more too, in the same vein. Not mean, but strong and sure.. 

This day is starting well.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Omg. In her haste to run away, W took car keys (we share 1 car). I need to shuffle kids around today, and tomoro.

Looks like plan B is necessary.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Go to a dealership with the title of the car/registration and your ID. They'll make a copy for you.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

It's all good. Took a walk with the kids to a couple of stores, got what I needed. tomorrow, i'll load them in the bike trailer, and finish up. it's good to get some exercise before a long flight anyhow- so really, this is for the best.

the worst part- with all this extra time it takes to walk and ride, I don't think there will be time to clean up the house before I leave.
;-)

it's a little messy. hopefully, I can at least get to the dishes- that would be gross...


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

today's email. 
********( wife's name),
Please send any contact information for you that you have available for the time that you are in Mexico. I feel that this is important because I am traveling with our children, and any number of things could precipitate the need to contact you. As you are in Mexico, I am assuming that cell service may be spotty at times, which is why I am asking for additional contact info such as hotel(s), ****'s (Brother), and any other that me be pertinent to facilitating timely contact.

I have verbally asked for this information already, but it has not been forthcoming. 

Please, also tell me the date of your return so that I can tell *****(dog sitter) when you will be expecting to get our dog. I will send her contact information to you shortly.

Regards,
*****(BSD)


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Please remind me not to take this out on the children. Today is stressful getting ready to go. My patience has never been so low, I am snapping at them a lot.


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Are you working out?

Do you do any hobbies on the side?


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Hi everyone. I'm back from vacation with the kids. It was absolutely rejuvenating and transformative. I dealt with some heavy s**t with my relationship with both parents. So freeing . Connected with the kids, watched them relax without the stress of W. 

Got back. Found hard incontrovertible evidence of EA in Mexico, which continues online now. I am of course still in shock. Did not sleep last nite. W is out with kids. I am going to sleep out of house tonite in order to recuperate, find more strength. 

Debating going public with info, or to her patents or something. I don't think that would be productive, but would be cathartic. Taking a nite to think before acting. Opinions, keeping in mind my goal is still to save my family/ marriage of at all possible.

CSS & Calvin? U been here. Input please!!

Peace


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Whats up Blind? CSS is banned til Thursday but if you have any questions feel free to ask,when I get home from work I'm sure she'll be glad to help and I can relay any msg's/answers for you bro
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

I guess a question would be how much does the fog affect a person's mind? how was CSS in the thick of it? My W is bonkers. she has a completely different persona with OM-totally superficial. cheating on me in one chat, advising another friend in another window, about relationship trouble, "just be truthful and communicate." . and of course outright lying to me. 

lying has always been one of her issues- where she could never accept that anyone would lie about anything. not even white lies. now, hers are not only defensive- they are offensive too. she brought up the fact that she wore her wedding ring in Mex to avoid any temptation. that she did not even hang out with any of brother's friends, was mostly alone. come to find out, not exactly true. nor slightly.

there seems no room for reason. nothing I say or do will affect anything in a positive way. anything I do is wrong. she wants a sep/ and divorce anyway, so kicking her out does not seem like it will do anything.

trying to be civil and distant. trying not be be a d***k. trying not to act out of anger. trying to support my children, because she has lost her mind.

I am seeing a therapist tomorrow for some professional advise. Also, a lawyer as soon as I can. Talking to lots of friends and family who love me. doing everything to remain strong and positive.


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

CSS told me to tell you that yes she got angry qas hell when I was cold, told her to get the F our of the house when she came to pick up a few thing..she really got mad and hated me for exposing her on my facebook but after a while of it..I did start to show concern for her well being and thats when she finally realized i still loved her after all she put me through and thats how we came back together and connected but its still a hard road as far as trust and replaying it over and over in my mind..those darn triggers, but we will be stronger and more attentive to eac,h other now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peterparker (Jul 11, 2012)

Blind,

be brave!!! be strong!!!, I was reading today all the post and looks like we are twins, I'm exactly suffering the same situation at the other side of the world....she is asking for space, going out with friends and (maybe) OM....now she is going out for 4 days with (supposedly) girlfriends....

Be strong and be patient!!!, my W told me ILYBNILWY several times, first time in March....we're still here....no physical contact since there, but I keep trying....


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Spidy, it feels great to know I'm not alone in this! A friend of mine (he is 1 year in, reconciling now ) constantly reminds me to keep my cool. Stay strong, and stay cool. It's so hard, but with support , and remembering we are not alone in this [email protected], we will make it.


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## peterparker (Jul 11, 2012)

calvin said:


> but after a while of it..I did start to show concern for her well being and thats when she finally realized i still loved her after all she put me through and thats how we came back together and connected
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some friends of mine says that once you assume that you have lost her and you are more focused on you and your kids, things start to change.

I have mixed thoughts, sometimes I imagine life with her and sometimes I cannot. I am going to put some distance for some days to see if I can find my real thoughts about what I do want.

Blind, did you do that? going out for 2-3 days and think about what do you really want?

Keep going!!


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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

Blind,don't sweat it man,me and CSS just hit the five month mark and its still kinda rought but we're getting there,couple more months and I see our relationship being much better and stronger.We already love and appreciate eachother a lot more than we did before,hang in there man,you guys will make it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

PP, I think your friend is very wise. it is getting easier to detach because I see the destructive behavior that she is engaged in. 
she is not only lying to me, but to her friends and family. and of course to our children.

I have spoken with a lawyer, which was also empowering.

PP, what is your story? 

Calvin, hanging in there at my best. moments of rage are intense, where I want to completely publicly humiliate her, and moments where I pity her. She is in so much pain, so lost, and confused. she was reading multiple horoscopes trying to justify her affair just last nite! crazy town.

I am just trying not to let out that I know until MC tomorrow, then I don't want to divulge how I know. we'll see how that last part goes.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

calvin, how long was CSS in the fog until she realized it?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I was in the fog the whole time during my 4mo EA and thought that I came right out of it when I was back home yet I was still blameshifting and defensive for probably another month..the fog don't lift untill there is no contact at all with the OM
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## calvin (Jan 7, 2012)

I think more like close to two months..interesting about the horoscopes,thats how I found out,every morning befor work I saw the history on her phone..love horoscopes and it was'nt my b-day that kept poping up,she was seeing what the stars had to say about her and om's love life
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## peterparker (Jul 11, 2012)

blindsideddad said:


> PP, what is your story?


Well, 15 years marriage, 2 kids.....she quit working when the first baby was born. Now, after 11 years she is trying to work again (she is a lawyer...bad choice for me guys!)

She started to go out with girlfriends almost every weekend last year, now it's quite difficult to see her at home, she is always out for "working" or party or whatever....

On March this year, she told me ILYBNILWY. I discovered that she was cheating me with one guy. I was very upset, but I tried to keep calm and find a solution. Maybe I was not so constant or too focused on the problem as almost every couple of weeks we talk about the R, I'm afraid that still looking for some hope.....we reached a stable situation and I had the feeling that she was no longer having an affair with this guy (but still working with him) when, almost 2 days ago, she told me that is going on vacation with girlfriends this summer in several and different dates. I discovered that she is now starting a R with another guy...so I felt really betrayed I am trying to work on the marriage but she doesn't want. We talked and she want to be just friends within the same house (I support all the expenses at home) and that she will take care of me, and if I need any loving support that I can find somebody for that. 

Right now, I'm lost and, reconsidering the options:
- Go through a separation that will be really painful for everybody as we cannot afford different houses.
- Wait and work on a complete 180 and become the best guy, not for her (but all of us when doing the 180 do know that it's for her....isn't it??)
- ????

What I do want is to have a happy marriage and a happy family with her and my kids, that's clear, rebuild the trust, doing joint activities together and so on. But sometimes, I am afraid that maybe I can put a lot of effort with no results, so I am afraid of being unsuccessful in this task and hit rock bottom so I would be in deep sh*t....

Yesterday I was with a psychologist and she told me that I have to work 2 points...a lifeless marriage and the MLC, the first one is clear...be the best man, the second is more difficult and it's her behavior.

I guess that we are all looking for some bright idea or thing to take so it will reverse the situation....so any successful experience shared here will be more than welcomed....

Thanks guys, I'm a bit sluggish and sad today...but let's keep going on!!!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sorry but how will you have a good marriage if you can never trust her..she betrayed you over and over. Time for the 180 for yourself
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peterparker (Jul 11, 2012)

CSS, it looks soooooo bad to you?


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

I'm sorry Peter it looks so sad actually, hope it works out tho
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Even our R has been a rough road but still worth it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## peterparker (Jul 11, 2012)

Yesterday we had an interesting talk, she told me that she love my sooo much but she is not in love with me. She wants to continue at home and that, if I feel better, to sign for a separation. She understands the painful situation but she doesn't want to hurt me...also that a physical separation is a problem as for money, for the kids and for everything. She needs to feel free and indepedent.

I am socked and I think that we hit rock bottom this time.

I'm reading No more Mr, Nice Guy and I'll start there as changing point. I'll do 180...I don't feel comfortable dating other girls...sex is out of scope right now as simply I don't feel it.

Looks like unique solution is to be independent, have fun, do 180 and pray.

What do you think?

By the way, Blind, how are you going? i feel fully identified with you man!!!


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## keko (Mar 21, 2012)

Blindsided, have a look at post 86 of your old thread. 

If you're not going to take our advice then why ask?


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

PP, I'm doing pretty well. Having fun with friends and kids , enjoying life. Feeling support from many directions. Reading a lot, visiting therapist.

W exhibited slight interest in stuff. she also flat out lied more. I am getting to a spot of empathy for her pain. Still tons of anger and sadness, but s$$t, she is in turmoil and hurting.

I've found a lot of strength and we had a talk. More later. I'm going to church today(?!!). Its been a long time. Feels right , tho.

Stay strong, brother. We will get there!


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

Went to church today too, and same here, it's been a while. So she's been doing alot of lying? What are you doing about all this?
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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, I told her I don't trust her. Told her I think she is not being truthful. told her I think she is having EA. told her, pretty much, good riddance. She accused me of snooping, and I lied (ironic, no?). I said, well u think I snooped, and I think u are unfaithful with **** (his real name). We are even. 

The confrontation will come after she returns, after I've had time to work with my IC. Her mom has been applying pressure to work it out, so I will allow that to play out. W told me her fam thinks its weird I contacted them; not true.

Tomoro, she takes the kids to visit her mom for 2 weeks. Home visits are always very stressful for her, so also told her that even tho I'm really angry with her, I am worried about her well being, and will support her and kids If there is a problem.


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## CantSitStill (Feb 7, 2012)

ok good but gget her to confess and then. tell her that if she continues to talk to any other man..She needs to leave because you will not allow other people in your marriage. Be strong you can do this..remember how I told you my hubby kicked me out, he gave me an ultimatum..get rid of contact with him or go..I left and it did me some good, he cut me off moneywise and made me feel unwelcome here, he told my kids, he facebooked that i was having an affair, he even took me off his life insurance, off credit cards, took the money out of the bank..it was that tough love you give a crackhead..same thing..let her hit bottom and see what happens
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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

CSS, been considering all that! Good to hear C did it, and it worked. I have time on my side cuz she is going out of town for 2 weeks. Going to work with my IC and our MC also. 

I have already confiscated kids passports, locked down our 1 credit card, and made her nervous by changing bank accounts. 

Moving deliberately, not passionately now.


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

keko said:


> Blindsided, have a look at post 86 of your old thread.
> 
> If you're not going to take our advice then why ask?


Hi Keko, I'm feeling some anger from you, please know that I value your voice here on TOM. I must say, however, just because I ask for advice, does not mean that I will blindly follow it. I seek a broad range of opinions before forming my own. I just re-read post 86. Please allow me to explain if you are interested.

This is the post that I showed W right before I installed the keylogger on the computer. I was afraid she was counter spying on me (now I know, she is so far in the fog, she is not). I needed her to not dig deeper into secrecy. If you re-read carefully, I said as much. 

So, yes I was listening to you (and everyone else) when you told me there was an A. I did not want to believe it, but I took steps to find definitive proof, one way or another. I would never have found proof (at least that soon) without all the calls to infidelity on TOM. 

So here;s the other beauty here. Yesterday, she told me she is paranoid that I am snooping, that she needs her own space to comunicate with family, etc. I can definitely use that to my advantage when the time is right...I will, of course not post what I am about to do 

But what I said is true- the paranoia was not helping me be a good, desirable person, or a good father. so I did let some of that go. I became more rational, and deliberate.

anyway, Please, wish me luck for when the time is right!


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## blindsideddad (May 26, 2012)

Hi everyone, I've moved over to "dealing with infidelity". please join and support me! having a rough day.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/51859-need-some-support-please.html


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