# One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW



## rrhouse

I know I keep posting the same or similar questions, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do. 

My husband and I have stayed married for 5 months after DD#2 where I admitted to kissing another man after four months of him trying to reconcile DD#1- A drunken two- night stand with a different person. Although we are still married, I wouldn't call it reconciliation, as we are in limbo until he decides to commit. 

I am currently almost 7 months pregnant and have posted other threads telling a longer version of the same story. The baby is absolutely my husband's- you can't get pregnant from kissing a man a month before conceiving. It's physically impossible. My husband knows this, he has told our counselor he's sure the baby is his, yet he has not participated in any part of the pregnancy. I understand where he might have doubts, obviously because I cheated and my word is worthless, so he questions my story and questions the truth.

I know what I did was wrong. It was selfish, immature, and I was too scared to just end a marriage I wanted out of, so I looked for extramarital attention. I stay in the marriage now in hopes that someday things will improve and we can be happy. The way I see it, marriage lasts a lifetime, so a few years of pain is just a blip if there is chance of improvement. (This is the way I see it NOW- obviously when I cheated I didn't see it that way) 

My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me. So technically he's married to our daughter right now, because he makes it clear most of the time that he's not interested in me. In the meantime he occasionally tells me he loves me and he wants it to work out between him and I, and then he gets mad at some ridiculous occurrence that I can't control and goes back to name-calling and hating me. (Example: I got diagnosed with Placenta Previa- this is KARMA for my cheating according to him and he's pissed off that I can't have sex because I could possibly DIE or kill the baby)

I am trying so very hard to help him heal: I paid for counseling for a month- he decided he didn't want to go anymore because the counselor "sucks", I cut off friends involved with the affair, I don't go anywhere alone unless I'm running errands, I have ONE friend that I talk to that he is nice to her face and mean behind her back, I have been quiet about the pregnancy because he didn't want it, I delete males on Facebook as he picks them out and decides I might cheat on him with them, I let him vent and yell and call me names and don't expect an apology, and I'm still going to IC. What more can I do?

He still calls me a ****, says he doesn't want the baby, yet he doesn't want a divorce, is angry that I'm doing positive things with myself because I should be on his level of depression.. He spends several days a week drinking at bars with his friend and then coming home and letting me have it in the form of a drunken monologue/rant. I just can't figure out ways to help him heal. He keeps saying "You fix it!" but I can only do so much on my own.


The other day he said I'm still the same person I was when I cheated because I posted something on Facebook about being annoyed with my CATS, and didn't take any action in real life to fix it..... CATS. This is not a joke. That's a whole different story, but he's been threatening to dump them on the side of the road somewhere for years. So I guess when I put on Facebook that I was annoyed, he expected me to go throw them outside somewhere. The fact that I didn't makes me still a cheater that can't commit to anything. Really? I just can't win. 

I had my chance to just give up a few months ago, but I just couldn't. At this point I really have nowhere to go. I was under the impression at first that we were trying to reconcile, so I stayed. He feeds me crumbs here and there and touches by belly or tells me he loves me, and then changes his mind. We're stuck in limbo until the baby is born and he makes a decision. Apparently he now wants a DNA test and plans to ask for it the moment they pull the baby out of my body. In the same breath he says he knows the baby is physically his but emotionally it's not. I'm 7 months pregnant, have a 3 year old that I take care of practically alone, and am balls-deep in a master's degree program, so I don't exactly have the free time nor physical ability to just up and leave this situation. All I can do at this point is just try to improve it, but how?


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## rrhouse

I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this: 

50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS. 

I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently. At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them. 

Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it. He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this:
> 
> 50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS.


It's important to note that, while this is a general rule, it isn't something that's set in stone. After all, these numbers are likely to be skewed to some degree in most situations, even if the spread is something as slight as 50.1/49.9. And, in some cases, it's probably as severe at 90/10. (And, to be clear, I'm not saying that the WS will always own the larger share... not at all.)

Anyway, in the more extreme cases, any "blame" leveled at the party to whom the lesser share belongs may very well be due solely to the fact that he or she went along and put up w/ the status quo as opposed to addressing (or, at the very least, attempting to address) the problems in the marriage. And, of course, that's assuming that he or she didn't do so/attempt to do so.

Own your bullsh*t and insist that he do the same. He doesn't get a free pass for treating you like sh*t either before OR after the affair (and _certainly_ not both before AND after), and anyone telling him that he should is toxic to both him and to your marriage.



rrhouse said:


> I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently.


^This^ is the heavy lifting that _YOU_ rightfully own. Having said that...



rrhouse said:


> At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them.


The affair and the crappy state of the marriage prior to the affair need to be addressed separately. If he fails to recognize and acknowledge this, he'll never own up to the heavy lifting that _HE_ rightfully owns.



rrhouse said:


> Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. *Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it.*


Nor should you be expected to do so.



rrhouse said:


> He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.[/B]


Yep.


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## cdbaker

I get the feeling that he is still VERY much hurting from the affair. Naturally no one could really blame him, but ultimately he needs (for his own sake!) to find a way to forgive you. He doesn't have to recommit to the marriage if he doesn't want to, but it's in everyone's best interest that he ultimately find peace in the situation.

All you can do is do everything you can to try to help him heal, to show remorse, go full NC, open up your life with no secrets, etc. While in the early stages if he slips up and gets overly angry (verbally ONLY, never physical) then you can do your best to let it slide a bit. Ultimately however, there has to be a point in time where he has to make a decision, and inappropriate anger becomes unacceptable.

At five months since D-Day (the latest one), I think he's behaving very inappropriately:

1. Still calling you a ****, months after the adultery has come out and you've been making efforts to help him heal, is COMPLETELY wrong. I can understand him losing his cool and saying that when he first found out, but now? No way, never ok.
2. Since he acknowledges that this pregnancy is his baby, I don't care how he feels about you, he needs to be supportive of everything related to the pregnancy. Meaning he might not yet be comfortable living with you yet or cuddling in bed or anything, but he better be at as many of those baby doctor appointments as possible, assist with post-baby planning, helping with the bills, etc.
3. After five months, he needs to have made a decision of some kind regarding the marriage. The status quo is simply unacceptable. That can be as simple as "Let's try again." or "Let's get a divorce and draw up a custody plan" or even "I want to fix our marriage, but I'm not ready to live together yet, so let's set up a plan with a marriage counselor to help us get to that point." Limbo isn't good for anyone.

Understand that, as the cheater, the situation SHOULD be somewhat uncomfortable for you, but there is a line between the the struggles that accompany rebuilding trust with a betrayed partner or divorcing that partner, and outright abuse. Him calling you names, abandoning his responsibilities (to his children, not his marriage), is not acceptable and you do not have to put up with that.

I would suggest trying to erect those boundaries. If he wants to review your phone? That's ok. If he wants to ask where you are at any given moment? That's ok. If he wants to confirm that you are where you say you are, that's ok. If he calls you a ****? That's absolutely not ok. It's ok to draw a few lines in the sand and let him know that while you understand his pain and his grief, and you want to help him heal as best you can, but you will not endure such abuse.

If you can get him into MC together, I would push for a resolution, one way or the other. If not, I would be honest and tell him that you need resolution on the situation, and are willing to accept the result either way. It might give him a little wake up call. After five months (or longer with D-Day #1 counting), he's become accustomed to being in the drivers seat and feeling somewhat self righteous. Being told that it's decision time can wake you up.


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## commonsenseisn't

Wait for a while, at least a few months after the baby's born to see if he's coping any better. If not, make the decision for him. Set him free.


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## FormerVictim

rrhouse,

Would you say you're impatient for the situation to be fixed?


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## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this:
> 
> 50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS.
> 
> 
> 
> It's important to note that, while this is a general rule, it isn't something that's set in stone. After all, these numbers are likely to be skewed to some degree in most situations, even if the spread is something as slight as 50.1/49.9. And, in some cases, it's probably as severe at 90/10. (And, to be clear, I'm not saying that the WS will always own the larger share... not at all.)
> 
> Anyway, in the more extreme cases, any "blame" leveled at the party to whom the lesser share belongs may very well be due solely to the fact that he or she went along and put up w/ the status quo as opposed to addressing (or, at the very least, attempting to address) the problems in the marriage. And, of course, that's assuming that he or she didn't do so/attempt to do so.
> 
> Own your bullsh*t and insist that he do the same. He doesn't get a free pass for treating you like sh*t either before OR after the affair (and _certainly_ not both before AND after), and anyone telling him that he should is toxic to both him and to your marriage.
> 
> 
> 
> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ^This^ is the heavy lifting that _YOU_ rightfully own. Having said that...
> 
> 
> 
> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The affair and the crappy state of the marriage prior to the affair need to be addressed separately. If he fails to recognize and acknowledge this, he'll never own up to the heavy lifting that _HE_ rightfully owns.
> 
> 
> 
> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. *Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it.*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Nor should you be expected to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.[/B]
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep.
Click to expand...



Thanks for the response, GP, as it's always appreciated. I wasn't adhering to a strict formula but I do feel that each partner in a marriage should reflect on the issues that occurred pre-affair and think about how they can each improve. What goes on between a couple before one partner cheats is never an excuse to cheat, but usually the marriage needed work before anything happened. 

My husband briefly made some personal changes regarding alcoholism and verbal abuse, but when it became too much of a challenge for him, he quickly came up with excuses for his pre-affair behavior that mostly have to do with me being a wh**re. 

Example:
Me: "The fact that you call me just as many names before I cheated as you do now hurts me."

Him: "Well, you ended up cheating on me, so was I wrong?" 

Some days he'll acknowledge how wrong it is to talk to another human being this way, other times he'll deny it. The free pass thing is interesting to me, because I said something similar to him, and he whole-heartedly believes he does have a free pass to do absolutely whatever he wants. 

This includes drinking profusely, name calling, looking at the hookup section of Craigslist, looking up massage parlors, taking pictures of strange women's butts while out drinking (unbeknownst to said strange women, which is even creepier), leaving the house without warning, etc. And I have no right to be upset about any of it.


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## ConanHub

Isn't your H the one that keeps pictures of your POSs on his phone?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

ConanHub said:


> Isn't your H the one that keeps pictures of your POSs on his phone?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



YES. While it drives me crazy, I did have a talk with him about it and I sort of get what he's doing. He says he does it because it desensitizes him to the situation. I don't know how true that is, but it kind of makes sense. Before, the picture was of my butt in the panties I wore on our wedding day that said Mrs. __. 

While he did change that picture to the POS's out of spite, he said it hurt him so much to see that picture of his name on me, because I am no longer "his", if that makes sense. Also, seeing the men every day lessens the chances of a trigger that might set him off. It's just a twinge of hurt many times a day, rather than an explosion every so often. I personally don't feel that it's unhealthy, but if that's what he wants, it's his phone/ his healing process, so... I can't really ask him to remove it.


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## rrhouse

FormerVictim said:


> rrhouse,
> 
> Would you say you're impatient for the situation to be fixed?



Impatient for the situation to be _fixed_? No. Not at all. 

In fact, every time he says he feels like people are expecting him to hurry up and get over it, I have to remind him that I never asked him to get over it. This is not something you just get over. 

I'm asking him to commit to moving forward or declare that he can't forgive me. Just make a decision either way. We're currently not in any real reconciliation. In fact he has barely spoken to me for several days because I asked if he wants to see an ultrasound picture. 

I'm also asking him to make a decision regarding our unborn child. I've been quiet for 7 out of 9 months, and I'm gently pushing him to make a decision. The baby has no name, he hasn't been to a single appointment, and he refuses to look at ultrasound pictures. The baby also has no nursery, although he did clear out our office a few months ago. He filled up the empty space with thousands of dollars of new music equipment and put the crib mattress in a corner. It's his "recording studio". 

I understand that reconciliation will take time. I'm prepared to work at this for years. However long it takes. But for this to move forward, he has to commit. No back and forth bs.


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## rrhouse

cdbaker said:


> I get the feeling that he is still VERY much hurting from the affair. Naturally no one could really blame him, but ultimately he needs (for his own sake!) to find a way to forgive you. He doesn't have to recommit to the marriage if he doesn't want to, but it's in everyone's best interest that he ultimately find peace in the situation.
> 
> All you can do is do everything you can to try to help him heal, to show remorse, go full NC, open up your life with no secrets, etc. While in the early stages if he slips up and gets overly angry (verbally ONLY, never physical) then you can do your best to let it slide a bit. Ultimately however, there has to be a point in time where he has to make a decision, and inappropriate anger becomes unacceptable.
> 
> At five months since D-Day (the latest one), I think he's behaving very inappropriately:
> 
> 1. Still calling you a ****, months after the adultery has come out and you've been making efforts to help him heal, is COMPLETELY wrong. I can understand him losing his cool and saying that when he first found out, but now? No way, never ok.
> 2. Since he acknowledges that this pregnancy is his baby, I don't care how he feels about you, he needs to be supportive of everything related to the pregnancy. Meaning he might not yet be comfortable living with you yet or cuddling in bed or anything, but he better be at as many of those baby doctor appointments as possible, assist with post-baby planning, helping with the bills, etc.
> 3. After five months, he needs to have made a decision of some kind regarding the marriage. The status quo is simply unacceptable. That can be as simple as "Let's try again." or "Let's get a divorce and draw up a custody plan" or even "I want to fix our marriage, but I'm not ready to live together yet, so let's set up a plan with a marriage counselor to help us get to that point." Limbo isn't good for anyone.
> 
> Understand that, as the cheater, the situation SHOULD be somewhat uncomfortable for you, but there is a line between the the struggles that accompany rebuilding trust with a betrayed partner or divorcing that partner, and outright abuse. Him calling you names, abandoning his responsibilities (to his children, not his marriage), is not acceptable and you do not have to put up with that.
> 
> I would suggest trying to erect those boundaries. If he wants to review your phone? That's ok. If he wants to ask where you are at any given moment? That's ok. If he wants to confirm that you are where you say you are, that's ok. If he calls you a ****? That's absolutely not ok. It's ok to draw a few lines in the sand and let him know that while you understand his pain and his grief, and you want to help him heal as best you can, but you will not endure such abuse.
> 
> If you can get him into MC together, I would push for a resolution, one way or the other. If not, I would be honest and tell him that you need resolution on the situation, and are willing to accept the result either way. It might give him a little wake up call. After five months (or longer with D-Day #1 counting), he's become accustomed to being in the drivers seat and feeling somewhat self righteous. Being told that it's decision time can wake you up.


Thank you so much for your input. You've echoed everything our counselor said. He did go to counseling with me for about a month and said he was committed to reconciliation, but about a week ago he started using phrases like "when we divorce" and "you're going to live with your mom", so I don't know. 

I've been seeing the same counselor individually and she said I need to work on creating boundaries and expectations for myself and stop being such a people pleaser. That's what got me into this situation in the first place- seeking approval and lack of boundaries. I'll continue to work with her on these topics while doing all I can to help him heal. 

I have always said that as long as he's still in, I'm still in. In counseling I said that I'm willing to give him until the baby is born to decide- I think that's fair. But I will not force someone to be with me if they hate me, even if he thinks that's whats best for our daughter(s). That sets a horrible example for both of them.

He is becoming more agitated with the situation lately because he knows the pressure is on to make a decision. As he says, he is feeling immense pressure as the clock ticks, and he is becoming more and more angry as the time pushes forward. He doesn't talk to anyone about this as far as I know. His best friend came over the other day and kept asking questions about the baby, which tells me my husband didn't say anything to him about how he wants nothing to do with her. I wish he would talk to this specific friend about it, as he is very level-headed and has been a good influence for my husband so far regarding the affair.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> YES. While it drives me crazy, I did have a talk with him about it and I sort of get what he's doing. *He says he does it because it desensitizes him to the situation.* I don't know how true that is, but it kind of makes sense. Before, the picture was of my butt in the panties I wore on our wedding day that said Mrs. __.
> 
> While he did change that picture to the POS's out of spite, he said it hurt him so much to see that picture of his name on me, because I am no longer "his", if that makes sense. Also, seeing the men every day lessens the chances of a trigger that might set him off. It's just a twinge of hurt many times a day, rather than an explosion every so often. I personally don't feel that it's unhealthy, but if that's what he wants, it's his phone/ his healing process, so... I can't really ask him to remove it.


Uhhh... sorry, but that's bullsh*t. And it's not like it's working at all, right? It's nothing more than a way for him to renew his anger every time that he looks at his phone.

And it's not just unhealthy... it's amazingly, foolishly, and recklessly unhealthy.


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## ConanHub

It is unhealthy in the extreme. Listen, I know you're in a tough spot but you have no marriage.

Compare your marriage to a human body. Before you cheated it was sick with pneumonia. So the first time you cheated you took a shotgun and shoved it up the sick persons butt and blew the rectum and intestines up into the lungs. That pretty much killed the patient. That wasn't enough. The second time you cheated you pressed the shotgun to the patient's forehead and blew their brains out.

Your marriage was very sick and you totally killed it.

You two could start a new marriage all over but your H is still dragging the desecrated corpse of your old marriage around complaining about the smell.

I have said it before, just bury your old marriage, it is done.

It is unhealthy for you to remain with him and he isn't healing either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> Impatient for the situation to be _fixed_? No. Not at all.
> 
> In fact, every time he says he feels like people are expecting him to hurry up and get over it, I have to remind him that I never asked him to get over it. This is not something you just get over.
> 
> I'm asking him to commit to moving forward or declare that he can't forgive me. Just make a decision either way. We're currently not in any real reconciliation. In fact he has barely spoken to me for several days because I asked if he wants to see an ultrasound picture.
> 
> I'm also asking him to make a decision regarding our unborn child. I've been quiet for 7 out of 9 months, and I'm gently pushing him to make a decision. The baby has no name, he hasn't been to a single appointment, and he refuses to look at ultrasound pictures. The baby also has no nursery, although he did clear out our office a few months ago. He filled up the empty space with thousands of dollars of new music equipment and put the crib mattress in a corner. It's his "recording studio".
> 
> *I understand that reconciliation will take time.* I'm prepared to work at this for years. However long it takes. But for this to move forward, he has to commit. No back and forth bs.


It'll take even longer if it never starts.

And, while I really do hate to lay this on you, your daughter is doubtlessly learning some absolutely horrible lessons in terms of what's acceptable in a marriage, specifically w/ respect to what a wife and mother should be expected to tolerate from her husband and the father of her children.


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## ConanHub

GusPolinski said:


> It'll take even longer if it never starts.
> 
> And, while I really do hate to lay this on you, your daughter is doubtlessly learning some absolutely horrible lessons in terms of what's acceptable in a marriage, specifically w/ respect to what a wife and mother should be expected to tolerate from her husband and the father of her children.


Yeah! This is bad every which way!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Honestly, I think that you know the answer to the question that you keep asking yourself, but the immense guilt that you feel at having engaged in adultery keeps you from embracing it.

And here's the thing... YOU. CAN'T. HEAL. HIM. Period. You CAN _help_ him to heal, but _only_ if he lets you.

Given that he's obviously made very little to no progress in this regard, AND the fact that he's basically taken steps to... well... STAY angry, I just don't think that he's cut out for reconciliation.


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## rrhouse

ConanHub said:


> It is unhealthy in the extreme. Listen, I know you're in a tough spot but you have no marriage.
> 
> Compare your marriage to a human body. Before you cheated it was sick with pneumonia. So the first time you cheated you took a shotgun and shoved it up the sick persons butt and blew the rectum and intestines up into the lungs. That pretty much killed the patient. That wasn't enough. The second time you cheated you pressed the shotgun to the patient's forehead and blew their brains out.
> 
> Your marriage was very sick and you totally killed it.
> 
> You two could start a new marriage all over but your H is still dragging the desecrated corpse of your old marriage around complaining about the smell.
> 
> I have said it before, just bury your old marriage, it is done.
> 
> It is unhealthy for you to remain with him and he isn't healing either.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You paint a beautiful picture.

In all seriousness though, he occasionally feeds me little crumbs of hope and that's what I hang on to. We could start over, but it would take some kind of miracle. Maybe this baby will be the miracle we need. Probably not. 

I really don't have anywhere to go right now, so I am kind of forced to wait it out at least until the baby is born and I can scrounge up some kind of job. I have the skills and education, and I'm no stranger to staying up all night working at home and turning around and being a stay at home mom. Daycare is outrageously expensive, especially for a newborn. My dad is selling his house and my mother just moved in with my grandmother, so there is seriously nothing to do but get my ducks in a row. I might have to rely on government assistance for a while, I don't know. I hate thinking about it. I hate accepting defeat. 

In the meantime I hope maybe he'll come around and at least commit to one thing or the other. We had a beautiful relationship at one point in time, and I wish we could someday get back to that, but as you said it's next to impossible. 

As far as the yelling and name-calling goes: if he starts up in front of our daughter I will just pack up and leave and come home when he passes out. She doesn't need to see it anymore. She already mockingly stomps around the house with a sour face and says "I am a man!", and says "Daddy doesn't like the baby". This breaks my heart.


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## ConanHub

Gus is echoing me from when I responded to your previous thread. Two anonymous male posters can't be wrong. Right?&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

Two male posters, several other people here on TAM, my family, my best friend. I'm stubborn and I don't want to give up on this. I'm also afraid of starting over and afraid to admit I killed my marriage. 

I still love him immensely and he tells me from time to time he loves me, and always has. So why can't we figure this out? It's frustrating.


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## GusPolinski

Oh and he's threatening to dump your cats?

F*CK. THAT. SH*T.


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## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> Gus is echoing me from when I responded to your previous thread. Two anonymous male posters can't be wrong. Right?��


Anonymous? Reeeaaaaally?!?

What... you never saw Home Alone?


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## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> Oh and he's threatening to dump your cats?
> 
> F*CK. THAT. SH*T.



I could start a whole new thread for that issue alone. He wants to euthanize his own cat because he never litter trained her. Because I won't let him, I am now responsible for cleaning the carpet every single day. As long as it keeps her alive I don't mind. 

Pregnant ladies aren't supposed to touch cat poop though.... I wish I could cash in on that rule


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## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> Anonymous? Reeeaaaaally?!?
> 
> What... you never saw Home Alone?


Hahaha... I told my mom about this forum, and that I like to imagine I'm getting marriage advice from the late John Candy.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> I could start a whole new thread for that issue alone. He wants to euthanize his own cat because he never litter trained her. Because I won't let him, I am now responsible for cleaning the carpet every single day. As long as it keeps her alive I don't mind.
> 
> Pregnant ladies aren't supposed to touch cat poop though.... I wish I could cash in on that rule


My grandmother once told me that you could learn everything that you'd ever need to know about someone based on the way that he or she treated animals.

Seems to be pretty germane to your current situation.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> Hahaha... I told my mom about this forum, and that I like to imagine I'm getting marriage advice from the late John Candy.


LOL... one guy actually straight up called me "John Candy" in a reply one day. That had me chuckling for days.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> I could start a whole new thread for that issue alone. He wants to euthanize his own cat because he never litter trained her. Because I won't let him, I am now responsible for cleaning the carpet every single day. As long as it keeps her alive I don't mind.
> 
> *Pregnant ladies aren't supposed to touch cat poop though*.... I wish I could cash in on that rule


Very, very, very true...

Toxoplasma gondii - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## ConanHub

You have to be pretty young. How old are you? My oldest son is 26. Don't keep beating a dead horse. You really do have your whole life ahead of you. You cannot control your H. Yes, you could help him heal if he wanted to heal but he doesn't.

You can and do need to heal yourself. You are now aware of the damage of infidelity, of what it does to everyone including you. Learn, change and grow. It will not happen in your current situation and your children will be very harmed growing up in this "death" zone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ConanHub

P.S. Stop handling cat crap yesterday! The dangers are serious and your child is more important than a cat!

I am absolutely for responsibility in owning pets but never at the risk of human health.

Your infidelity is no excuse for your Hs neglect and abuse!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrhouse

I got stuck with the cat poop during my first pregnancy as well. If I'm not mistaken, there is only a threat if you have outdoor cats that poop inside, because they eat raw meat or something. My only outdoor cat only comes inside to eat, so I'm not terribly concerned. It is bs that my husband can't help out with that one thing, but whatever. 

Also, I'm 26- good call! When I did leave my situation (a couple months ago) for a few days to stay at my mom's old town home, I started to get a little hopeful and excited about the future. It felt like a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I still missed my husband though and went right back to him after the first "I miss you" he texted me. So, it's not hopeless if I end up getting a divorce. It's just not how I hoped this would turn out.


----------



## ConanHub

Yup. Understand but at least you can come out a better person and there are some good candidates out there for husbands. Who knows? Maybe a divorce is what your H needs to get better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## larry.gray

rrhouse said:


> Hahaha... I told my mom about this forum, and that I like to imagine I'm getting marriage advice from the late John Candy.


I thought you were Gus Polinsky, the Polka King?


----------



## cdbaker

rrhouse said:


> YES. While it drives me crazy, I did have a talk with him about it and I sort of get what he's doing. He says he does it because it desensitizes him to the situation. I don't know how true that is, but it kind of makes sense. Before, the picture was of my butt in the panties I wore on our wedding day that said Mrs. __.
> 
> While he did change that picture to the POS's out of spite, he said it hurt him so much to see that picture of his name on me, because I am no longer "his", if that makes sense. Also, seeing the men every day lessens the chances of a trigger that might set him off. It's just a twinge of hurt many times a day, rather than an explosion every so often. I personally don't feel that it's unhealthy, but if that's what he wants, it's his phone/ his healing process, so... I can't really ask him to remove it.


Wow, yeah, this is enormously harmful and unhelpful. If he is doing something like this, that explains a lot of why he can't get over/move past the situation with you. It's like he's re-inflicting pain on himself repeatedly every day. It'll re-ignite random bouts of anger towards you too. It'll just make him grow to despise you over time. I'm not saying that he needs to "forgive and forget" because he'll never really forget, but he will struggle enormously to forgive and move on with that reminder in his face throughout the day.


----------



## cdbaker

rrhouse said:


> Thank you so much for your input. You've echoed everything our counselor said. He did go to counseling with me for about a month and said he was committed to reconciliation, but about a week ago he started using phrases like "when we divorce" and "you're going to live with your mom", so I don't know.
> 
> I've been seeing the same counselor individually and she said I need to work on creating boundaries and expectations for myself and stop being such a people pleaser. That's what got me into this situation in the first place- seeking approval and lack of boundaries. I'll continue to work with her on these topics while doing all I can to help him heal.
> 
> I have always said that as long as he's still in, I'm still in. In counseling I said that I'm willing to give him until the baby is born to decide- I think that's fair. But I will not force someone to be with me if they hate me, even if he thinks that's whats best for our daughter(s). That sets a horrible example for both of them.
> 
> He is becoming more agitated with the situation lately because he knows the pressure is on to make a decision. As he says, he is feeling immense pressure as the clock ticks, and he is becoming more and more angry as the time pushes forward. He doesn't talk to anyone about this as far as I know. His best friend came over the other day and kept asking questions about the baby, which tells me my husband didn't say anything to him about how he wants nothing to do with her. I wish he would talk to this specific friend about it, as he is very level-headed and has been a good influence for my husband so far regarding the affair.


If he is growing increasingly agitated, angry, frustrated with the marriage the closer to decision time it gets... I hate to say it, but what do you think will happen when that time comes? It sounds like he'll either say it's time for a divorce (which at this point, I doubt... I see him trying to find a way to drag this painful status quo out for a while) or he'll begrudgingly agree. Then you'll have a husband who only barely wants to be there and still clings desperately to the painful mistakes of the past. Is that something anyone would want?

Right now he has this adultery to hang over your head. I believe the term "free pass" was used earlier, and that's sort of what I'm talking about. He can be belligerent with you, cross lines that a husband should never cross, say things that shouldn't be said, especially in front of the child, etc. etc. etc., and to some degree or another, you'll feel inclined to allow it because of what you did to him. I think most of us can understand that inclination for a while, but eventually it has to stop. We're beyond "eventually" at 5-9 months post-DDay.

If you want to give him some time to decide on whether or not he can really forgive you or not (he hasn't by the way), I could understand that. But he needs to accept the baby. He needs to do his part. I can understand his hurt and pain when he thinks of you right now because he hasn't taken that forgiveness step, but he has no right to leave you hanging as it relates to his baby.


----------



## cdbaker

Sorry, one more thing. To clarify why true forgiveness means, it means to forgive someone of the debt they "owe" to you. I can "forgive" a $20 debt that someone owes to me for instance. A long overdue financial debt between friends can spoil an otherwise good friendship after all. Once forgiven, it's my responsibility to truly and completely let it go, to not ever bring it up again. There is no debt anymore, it's gone. He owes me nothing, so there is nothing to grumble or be upset about. I certainly don't have to forget it, so I probably won't lend him money again, but I cannot use the prior debt against him ever again.

If a friend has hurt me, betrayed me, etc., the situation is no different, except that he is not even capable of repaying that debt anyway. I can forgive him and completely release the pain debt he owes me, and release myself from the chains that bound me to reliving that pain over and over, or I can lose the friendship and continue to drag that pain around with me forever. It's a lousy situation for sure, you've been hurt, he carries the guilt of having hurt a friend, and you can't undo that, but you can heal and start fresh. 

So if the marriage is going to have a chance, he has to genuinely reach a point of forgiveness. That means removing the POS's image from his phone, never bringing it up with you or others again (outside of maybe an MC session or something anyway), never using it against you (especially in anger, like calling you a slu*), just completely accepting that he shouldn't be thinking about it, talk about it, refer to it, etc., ever. He certainly can't forget it, and you should still continue to help him with healing, including being willing to maintain total transparency in your life for a while, but that's it. But if he can't reach this point, the sooner the better, I can't imagine the marriage surviving, or at least improving beyond what it is today.


----------



## CantePe

rrhouse said:


> I got stuck with the cat poop during my first pregnancy as well. If I'm not mistaken, there is only a threat if you have outdoor cats that poop inside, because they eat raw meat or something. My only outdoor cat only comes inside to eat, so I'm not terribly concerned. It is bs that my husband can't help out with that one thing, but whatever.
> 
> Also, I'm 26- good call! When I did leave my situation (a couple months ago) for a few days to stay at my mom's old town home, I started to get a little hopeful and excited about the future. It felt like a huge weight had been lifted from my shoulders. I still missed my husband though and went right back to him after the first "I miss you" he texted me. So, it's not hopeless if I end up getting a divorce. It's just not how I hoped this would turn out.


As a health care worker (as in professional in health care) that is a fallacy.

Do not handle feline waste (urine or feces) while pregnant. Your babys health and yours are more important that a cat. That statement comes from an animal rights activist by the way.


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## ConanHub

CantePe said:


> As a health care worker (as in professional in health care) that is a fallacy.
> 
> Do not handle feline waste (urine or feces) while pregnant. Your babys health and yours are more important that a cat. That statement comes from an animal rights activist by the way.


I wasn't going to go on about the cat but this is right. Cat waste is too toxic for you right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb

What's toxic ...is your husbands attitude . I applaud your efforts...but seriously...the guy takes photos of other women's butts, checks out Craiglist, calls massage parlours,(and calls YOU a wh0re...wtf) makes you pick up cat poo and verbally abuses you constantly. Sorry, the guy sounds like a PIG.
If he truly loved you he would consider how this treatment may impact on your pregnancy. Not good. Sorry for what you are enduring.


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## lifeistooshort

You didn't ruin the marriage. Your hb was an abusive pr!ck long before your cheating. All abusers feed their victims crumbs.

I don't know what else to tell you, your hb has been very clear about what he thinks of you and yet you insist on holding on. All I can tell you is that you're going to sorely regret this time you're wasting with him. Keep asking the same question, nothing is going to change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vms

Your husband is an abuser and you're allowing it and making excuses for him. 

I don't know how else to put it. Leave now. Also pick up a copy of "Why Does He Do That" and the book published after that one, I forget the name but same author.


----------



## rrhouse

cdbaker said:


> If he is growing increasingly agitated, angry, frustrated with the marriage the closer to decision time it gets... I hate to say it, but what do you think will happen when that time comes? It sounds like he'll either say it's time for a divorce (which at this point, I doubt... I see him trying to find a way to drag this painful status quo out for a while) or he'll begrudgingly agree. Then you'll have a husband who only barely wants to be there and still clings desperately to the painful mistakes of the past. Is that something anyone would want?
> 
> Right now he has this adultery to hang over your head. I believe the term "free pass" was used earlier, and that's sort of what I'm talking about. He can be belligerent with you, cross lines that a husband should never cross, say things that shouldn't be said, especially in front of the child, etc. etc. etc., and to some degree or another, you'll feel inclined to allow it because of what you did to him. I think most of us can understand that inclination for a while, but eventually it has to stop. We're beyond "eventually" at 5-9 months post-DDay.
> 
> If you want to give him some time to decide on whether or not he can really forgive you or not (he hasn't by the way), I could understand that. But he needs to accept the baby. He needs to do his part. I can understand his hurt and pain when he thinks of you right now because he hasn't taken that forgiveness step, but he has no right to leave you hanging as it relates to his baby.



I have been and am willing to give him more time to decide whether or not he can forgive me. I just can't deal with the bullying and name-calling anymore. It's obvious that I have to set boundaries or else he's just going to walk all over me, using my guilt as an excuse. 

He hasn't spoken to me since last Saturday, with the exception of parenting or household topics. I'm becoming emotionally detached from the situation and honestly am building a lot of resentment towards him. Last we spoke he told me that by betraying him I did things he wouldn't do to his worst enemy. I can understand that, but it still pisses me off that he continuously does things to me that I would never do to someone I hated. The difference between him and I is that I'm acknowledging my bad behavior, apologizing, and trying my hardest to make it right. He won't even acknowledge his behavior, and if he does, he says he should have a right to do whatever he wants. 

Clearly things are not going to change, even if he does try to forgive me. He is incapable of seeing his own wrongdoing.


----------



## GusPolinski




----------



## rrhouse

I didn't share on this forum, but I guess I will because its important. Last Sunday I took a stack of notecards and sat down with my audio recordings of his angry monologues (where he just yells at me for hours on end). I wrote down every insult and name he hurled at me, and taped these cards to the mirror on my dresser. The mirror was completely covered with these cards. 

This was sort of immature, I know. I wanted to make a point though. Even though he forgets saying these things or shrugs them off the next day, I hear them constantly in my head. I see them every time I look at myself in the mirror. He seems unsatisfied any day that I appear to not be thinking about these names, and goes off on another rant. He even told me he does this "so I don't forget". I just wanted him to see the horrible things he was saying and was hoping to passive aggressively call him out. 

Well, he didn't mention the cards all week. I took them down because we had people come work on the house and I didn't want them to see that. This morning I found three cards taped back on the mirror: "Desparate", "Attention-seeking", and "WH*RE". This scared me because I thought maybe one of the workers found the cards and thought it was funny or something, so I texted my husband asking if he touched my dresser. He said, yeah, he moved the cards, but it was meant to be a joke. 

The fact that he could ignore these words all week, not talk to me, and then put them BACK up after I took them down- as a JOKE- just disgusts me. I didn't even talk to him when he came home today because I was so angry. It's so clear that my feelings mean nothing to him and recovery will never happen. 

In my heart I know what has to happen, but I am not emotionally or physically prepared to do anything about it right now. I'm just detaching and minding my own business. He rarely ever comes home anyway. I just feel so defeated and angry with myself for a) cheating and b) allowing myself to be treated like trash by my own husband and the OM


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## ConanHub

Just take your time sweetheart. Yes, I am calling you a sweetheart. I think you have heard enough about what you allowed yourself to become and I am choosing to believe you are becoming someone different and won't ever cheat again.

Your H is backwards and destructive. He will never get well and he will never allow you to get well either. He will stain your children with bitterness and hate. They will grow up twisted under the torment of his hatred of you.

Be firm in your resolve. Take what time you need. Stop taking anymore fvcking abuse! When it is feasible, leave and never look back.

There is no excuse for the decisions you made to lower yourself and be violated and there should be no excuses to prevent you from repenting, healing and growing beyond all of it either.

Your H can't be held responsible for your cheating and he sure as hell should not be the reason you don't get healthier and feel better about yourself.

He is responsible for abusing you. You may have deserved ridicule and shame even divorce for what you did but never abuse!

There is a time also, when the ridicule needs to turn to encouragement and the shame to self esteem.

Your H does not have any understanding and is just using this as an excuse to hurt you forever. His heart is revealed and it is full of darkness.

Be well. You need to continue healing for yourself and your children and even the man who will cherish you above all others. You haven't met him yet but you will if you invest in yourself, your wellbeing and that of your children.

You should never have cheated but it has revealed the cesspool that is in your Hs heart.

Best wishes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kevinb

Your husband is toxic...


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## ButtPunch

Well...I'm not going to bash on the husband...but some people aren't capable of reconciliation. Right now every time he sees you he sees nothing but hurt. I think you need to do him a favor and leave again. Separate and do not move back in when the first I miss you text comes.


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## rrhouse

ConanHub said:


> Just take your time sweetheart. Yes, I am calling you a sweetheart. I think you have heard enough about what you allowed yourself to become and I am choosing to believe you are becoming someone different and won't ever cheat again.
> 
> Your H is backwards and destructive. He will never get well and he will never allow you to get well either. He will stain your children with bitterness and hate. They will grow up twisted under the torment of his hatred of you.
> 
> Be firm in your resolve. Take what time you need. Stop taking anymore fvcking abuse! When it is feasible, leave and never look back.
> 
> There is no excuse for the decisions you made to lower yourself and be violated and there should be no excuses to prevent you from repenting, healing and growing beyond all of it either.
> 
> Your H can't be held responsible for your cheating and he sure as hell should not be the reason you don't get healthier and feel better about yourself.
> 
> He is responsible for abusing you. You may have deserved ridicule and shame even divorce for what you did but never abuse!
> 
> There is a time also, when the ridicule needs to turn to encouragement and the shame to self esteem.
> 
> Your H does not have any understanding and is just using this as an excuse to hurt you forever. His heart is revealed and it is full of darkness.
> 
> Be well. You need to continue healing for yourself and your children and even the man who will cherish you above all others. You haven't met him yet but you will if you invest in yourself, your wellbeing and that of your children.
> 
> You should never have cheated but it has revealed the cesspool that is in your Hs heart.
> 
> Best wishes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I appreciate the positive words. After hearing nothing but negativity, that's refreshing . The pressure is really on now for me to leave. 

He came home after another day at the bar, and got an attitude with me because I asked him to please at least tell me if he's not coming home after work. I told him not to get an attitude with me when he hasn't spoken to me all day and he went off in front of our daughter. Again. 

I went into our bedroom crying and tried to shut the door but he stood in the doorway blocking me, even after I tried to physically move him and told him to leave me alone. He kept screaming and refused to let me shut the door, the whole time our daughter is right there. The dinner I just cooked is sitting at the table getting cold. When I I finally did shut and lock the door he continued screaming and calling me every name in the book. I'm surprised he didn't hit me. I'm scared and upset, and need to leave before he physically attacks me. 

He even ridiculed me for asking him to stop fighting in front of our daughter, saying I'm responsible for her having to see this. F**king ridiculous. I need to find some way out. Is there a forum on here where I can find resources for stay at home moms/ pregnant ladies/ full time graduate students who need help?


----------



## ConanHub

OK youngster. I am not up to speed on the programs you are talking about but I know they are there.

There is a poster here called Ele_Girl. She seems quite educated about help programs for ladies in your situation.

What area do you live in?

Be strong. The damage being done to you is bad enough but it is terrible what is being done to your daughter.

Would you like me to ask Ele for you?


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## Kevinb

Feel for you Mate


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## rrhouse

ConanHub said:


> OK youngster. I am not up to speed on the programs you are talking about but I know they are there.
> 
> There is a poster here called Ele_Girl. She seems quite educated about help programs for ladies in your situation.
> 
> What area do you live in?
> 
> Be strong. The damage being done to you is bad enough but it is terrible what is being done to your daughter.
> 
> Would you like me to ask Ele for you?


I'd appreciate that. I've seen her posts all over this board. I am sure I can find place to go if necessary, but I feel like it would be more wise to avoid him in my own home until I can get a job and do my research. 

I think it's bs for to me to uproot at 7 months pregnant because he wants to blow up and shout every night. It's even more ridiculous that he defended himself when I told him to cool it in front of our child. He believes "she will find out either way, so there's no need to sugar coat it." And this is part of my p**sy parenting method that shelters her from reality. (Because I have a minor in child development and don't believe in spanking, that makes me an idiot and a p**sy and somehow is related to him yelling in front of her- his logic, not mine). Anyway I'm including so much detail so I don't forget exactly what he said and did. It's more for personal reasons than oversharing with this forum, sorry. 

I'm in the Houston area in Texas.


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## rrhouse

I appreciate the support and advice you all provided.


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## lifeistooshort

We all care about you and hate to see you being abused like this. You don't deserve any of it.


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## rrhouse

lifeistooshort said:


> We all care about you and hate to see you being abused like this. You don't deserve any of it.


I do deserve the anger and rejection on days he has triggers, but I have to draw a line somewhere. He thinks by not allowing abuse I'm trying to draw up my own terms for reconciliation when the affair was all on me. 

I've tried and tried to explain that I'm just standing up for myself as a human being but it falls on deaf ears. I'm wasting my time with him.


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## Ms. GP

That's because you're dealing with a drunk. Drunks don't behave in rationalized civilized manors. It sounds like things are escalating. I'm scared for you.


----------



## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> I do deserve the anger and rejection on days he has triggers, but I have to draw a line somewhere. He thinks by not allowing abuse I'm trying to draw up my own terms for reconciliation when the affair was all on me.


Honestly, it sounds like he hasn't _stopped_ triggering.



rrhouse said:


> I've tried and tried to explain that I'm just standing up for myself as a human being but it falls on deaf ears. *I'm wasting my time with him.*


Hallelujah!


----------



## lifeistooshort

Beyond a drunk, you're dealing with an abusive drunk. You simply gave him a reason to justify and ramp up the abuse. He isn't capable of reconciling, he's just too big of a pr!ck to give up his punching bag.

He doesn't know how to be a decent hb, he only knows how to be nasty and abusive. That's why he's ramped it up, he figures he wasn't nasty enough. Being a decent human being is beyond him.

You're not doing him a favor to keep holding on. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> I think it's bs for to me to uproot at 7 months pregnant because he wants to blow up and shout every night.


It's TOTAL bullsh*t, but at some point you need to be more concerned about your safety -- as well as that of your daughter and unborn child -- than whether or not you should have to move because your husband is an abusive rage monster.

Have you checked into whether or not the college that you're attending offers any sort of assistance programs geared toward women in abusive relationships?


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## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> Honestly, it sounds like he hasn't _stopped_ triggering.
> 
> 
> 
> Hallelujah!




As long as he refers to his own child as a "Trophy of Deceit" I don't think he will stop triggering, as the child lives in my belly and he sees it every day. My school doesn't offer any help for abusive relationships, and I'm a distance student, so I can't take advantage of their free counseling. My grandmother has room for me and when I get on my feet she has land and utility hookups. Maybe I can build one of those awesome tiny homes everyone is talking about. Who knows. 

My husband has barely spoken to me since the fighting. During the fight he said he hates me and wanted a divorce all along, but won't file because he doesn't want to do all the work for my mistakes. So I guess I'll have to file whenever my money tree starts blooming, because he already decided he's going to fight any child support I ask for.


----------



## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> As long as he refers to his own child as a "Trophy of Deceit" I don't think he will stop triggering, as the child lives in my belly and he sees it every day. My school doesn't offer any help for abusive relationships, and I'm a distance student, so I can't take advantage of their free counseling. My grandmother has room for me and when I get on my feet she has land and utility hookups. Maybe I can build one of those awesome tiny homes everyone is talking about. Who knows.
> 
> My husband has barely spoken to me since the fighting. During the fight he said he hates me and wanted a divorce all along, but won't file because he doesn't want to do all the work for my mistakes. So I guess I'll have to file whenever my money tree starts blooming, because *he already decided he's going to fight any child support I ask for.*


He can fight it all he wants, but he's going to have to pay it either way.


----------



## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> As long as he refers to his own child as a "Trophy of Deceit" I don't think he will stop triggering, as the child lives in my belly and he sees it every day. My school doesn't offer any help for abusive relationships, and I'm a distance student, so I can't take advantage of their free counseling. My grandmother has room for me and when I get on my feet she has land and utility hookups. Maybe I can build one of those awesome tiny homes everyone is talking about. Who knows.
> 
> My husband has barely spoken to me since the fighting. During the fight he said he hates me and wanted a divorce all along, but won't file because he doesn't want to do all the work for my mistakes. So I guess I'll have to file whenever my money tree starts blooming, because *he already decided he's going to fight any child support I ask for.*
> 
> 
> 
> He can fight it all he wants, but he's going to have to pay it either way.
Click to expand...


I think he thinks I'm going to try to take him for all he's worth. We've only been married for two and a half years, so it's not like there's much to claim. It's not worth the battle to me and I wouldn't ask for anything else anyway, because I violated the marriage. 

I think he's just really excited to tell a judge that I'm an adulteress (his favorite word to use) and prove that I'm a bad role model and unfit parent. He has never bathed our daughter, never taken her anywhere, or even spent more than a few hours alone with her... yet im the unfit parent. I tried to tell him adultery doesn't affect child support or custody but he is apparently the expert. I don't want spousal support because I know I won't get it, so I don't know why he's gearing up for battle.


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## rrhouse

Also, if I'm not mistaken there's something called "condonence" (sp?) that cancels out the fault of adultery if he "forgave" me in the eyes of the law, by continuing to be intimate with me and live a normal married life. I'm not sure how true that is, but there's that. In case he tries to take my daughter away or some ridiculous nonsense.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> Also, if I'm not mistaken there's something called "condonence" (sp?) that cancels out the fault of adultery if he "forgave" me in the eyes of the law, by continuing to be intimate with me and live a normal married life. I'm not sure how true that is, but there's that. In case he tries to take my daughter away or some ridiculous nonsense.


Completely legit in many states, but, since Texas doesn't really care about adultery (as long as any children haven't been exposed to criminals, criminal activity, etc, and that's only where custody is concerned), it shouldn't matter one way or the other.

Oh, and another thing... Texas is a one-party consent state. Get a VAR, and keep it rolling any time that he's around. Pair it w/ some good rechargeable batteries in order to keep from having to spend a fortune on batteries.


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## ConanHub

Good call Gus. It will help to keep track of his bvllshyt.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I don't know that adultery is taken into account with child custody, but even if it was you have plenty of evidence of his alcohol abuse and general abusiveness so no judge in their right mind would give him any kind of custody. You really need to play hardball with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

I actually have a recorder on my phone that I use when he's yelling and acting crazy. I always carry the phone around anyway so it's convenient. I should get an extra though, in case he takes my phone away. I have several hours of him just going off calling me names while I ask him to stop, leave me alone, stop yelling in front of daughter, etc. I've also said he's scaring me and he doesn't let up.


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## rrhouse

lifeistooshort said:


> I don't know that adultery is taken into account with child custody, but even if it was you have plenty of evidence of his alcohol abuse and general abusiveness so no judge in their right mind would give him any kind of custody. You really need to play hardball with him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He wouldn't be able to take care of her anyway, he's never home. I doubt any judge would take a child away from her full-time mother to put her in some kind of daycare. It's silly. All I want are my children and enough money to help me take care of them.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> He wouldn't be able to take care of her anyway, he's never home. I doubt any judge would take a child away from her full-time mother to put her in some kind of daycare. It's silly. All I want are my children and enough money to help me take care of them.


Start documenting when he is and isn't home, when he's at the bar, what time he comes home, his general state of mind once he's there, and make sure that you're recording the first 10-15 minutes of whatever is said once he walks through the door.

Also, if you can, keep track of how much he's spending on alcohol.


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## turnera

rrhouse said:


> I was too scared to just end a marriage I wanted out of
> 
> The way I see it, marriage lasts a lifetime, so a few years of pain is just a blip if there is chance of improvement. (This is the way I see it NOW- obviously when I cheated I didn't see it that way)
> 
> My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me.


That's the price you pay for what you did. 

No offense, but you don't get to be picky now. Either divorce him or accept his progress or lack thereof.

If he's abusive leave him for THAT.


----------



## turnera

rrhouse said:


> Is there a forum on here where I can find resources for stay at home moms/ pregnant ladies/ full time graduate students who need help?


No, that would be your city and your county, and the resources they offer. And United Way. And your college counselor.

If you have time, read this book.


----------



## rrhouse

turnera said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was too scared to just end a marriage I wanted out of
> 
> The way I see it, marriage lasts a lifetime, so a few years of pain is just a blip if there is chance of improvement. (This is the way I see it NOW- obviously when I cheated I didn't see it that way)
> 
> My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me.
> 
> 
> 
> That's the price you pay for what you did.
> 
> No offense, but you don't get to be picky now. Either divorce him or accept his progress or lack thereof.
> 
> If he's abusive leave him for THAT.
Click to expand...


We went to counseling for about a month before the counselor said something he didn't like and he stopped going. In counseling, we agreed that we were both still in the relationship and committed to each other. 

1 month after this he tells me he was just saying that to keep our daughter in his house, and he actually hates me and can't stand the sight of me. He even blames me for choosing a sh**ty counselor. I do get to be picky,in that I won't remain married to a man that despises me just because I'm financially comfortable. I wish he didn't keep oscillating back and forth between repairing the relationship for US, or becoming a martyr for our child. Not to mention there's one on the way that he refuses to acknowledge. Am I supposed to wait around for him to make a choice about that too?

I don't believe in staying together for the kids, especially when one parent is so miserable he drinks himself into oblivion and yells at his spouse on a regular basis. In front of their child - because he believes in being "honest" with her. Our daughter is 3- she has no idea what's going on, other than daddy's mean and daddy plays with his friends a lot . This is not a marriage. I'm leaving because he's abusive and I personally feel that he's using my guilt as a excuse for some behavior that are inexcusable. 

My affair was abuse - it was inexcusable and I am dealing with consequences for my own decisions. I am working as hard as I can to help him heal . 

His verbal and emotional abuse is also inexcusable. He doesn't get a free pass because "I did it first". He refuses to acknowledge it, and says I'm using it as an excuse to have cheated.


----------



## turnera

Then you're moving out? When?


----------



## rrhouse

I didn't mean to come off as rude. Just trying to explain that I'm not trying to be a diva about the situation. I've asked him to just ask me to give him space when he's angry, but he'd rather yell and slam sh*t around. I've tried to tell him I'm not rushing him to get over it. I just know from reading this forum that reconciliation doesn't work without both parties. He keeps telling me to fix it for him. I can't do that! 

Thank you for the links - I wanted to buy the book but had to buy school books first.


----------



## rrhouse

turnera said:


> Then you're moving out? When?


I'm 7 months pregnant, so I am waiting until I have the baby and heal from the mandatory c-section. The place I'm moving is an hour away and I need to be here close my doctor and hospital. I've also had issues with the pregnancy and am not supposed to be physically straining myself. First things first, I guess.


----------



## turnera

rrhouse said:


> I didn't mean to come off as rude. Just trying to explain that I'm not trying to be a diva about the situation. I've asked him to just ask me to give him space when he's angry, but he'd rather yell and slam sh*t around. I've tried to tell him I'm not rushing him to get over it. I just know from reading this forum that reconciliation doesn't work without both parties. He keeps telling me to fix it for him. I can't do that!
> 
> Thank you for the links - I wanted to buy the book but had to buy school books first.


The link I sent you was for a free online PDF.

You need to arrange for a safe place to go if he escalates. Save up some money for an extended-stay hotel or for something else so that when he gets in your face you have someplace to go. Ask your school counselor for help.


----------



## rrhouse

Just an update:
Today I was able to talk to my husband in a civilized manner. He didn't apologize for the screaming and namecalling, but he did tell me that he feels like he's stuck and will be forever in this stage of grief from what I did to him. I am out of ideas to help him heal or move forward, and it sucks. I told him if he feels like he can never forgive me, then it's best for everyone to just call too far gone and let go. 

It's not healthy for him to be around me if he hates me and I'm a constant trigger. It's not healthy for me to be around someone who will forever see me as the worst version of myself- not allowing me to grow or come up from rock bottom. Most importantly it's not healthy for our daughter. Not only is this providing a horrible example of marriage, but H an I are both too tense around each other to be proper parents. The new baby is likely going to feel the rejection from H not accepting her. 

He wants to stay together and stay married because he doesn't want everyone's quality of life *financially speaking* to suffer from the divorce. We would all be struggling financially, but I feel like emotional stability is more important than a fancy house and spoiling our child. He told me if we divorced he's basically going to give up on relationships. For that reason he'd rather be married and have a miserable sex life than single and hopeless. That's a horrible state of mind to be in. 

I'm hoping this is just one of the phases BS's go through. I already knew his first wife also cheated on him, but today he told me he also had a serious girlfriend cheat on him as well. And then me. So now he is questioning himself and has no self worth. I don't know how to deal with all of this right now... I'm hoping maybe I can help the situation before the baby comes. If things are this bleak when I'm physically able to set him free, I'm going to have to leave. I'm worried about our daughter associating the new baby with her parents separating, resulting in our daughter also disliking the baby. 

Again I'm going crazy because I feel so horrible for hurting him but at the same time I'm so angry with him for hurting me. So confusing.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Based on his behavior before your affairs it's likely he abused his exes too but I bet he's not given one iota of thought to how he treats the women in his life. That's how abusers are, their behavior is normal and they're huge victims when their victims react. 
This is further evidenced by his refusal to acknowledge his abusive behavior is unacceptable..... that's normal for him. 

Of course he doesn't want a divorce, he'll have to pay and he won't have the satisfaction of a punching bag. You can't fix his issues. He's going to control you with more and abuse, if you stick around that's what you'll get. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## manticore

rrhouse said:


> My husband and I have stayed married for 5 months after DD#2 where I admitted to kissing another man after four months of him trying to reconcile DD#1- A drunken two- night stand with a different person. Although we are still married, I wouldn't call it reconciliation, as we are in limbo until he decides to commit.


rrhouse
I don't think you are completely selfcentered, but maybe you are wanting to change in your favor to fast, I have reading your posts and let me tell ypu something.

*5 months are nothing* we have users that have been in the limbo undecided to reconcile or divorce for several more months and some even for a couple of years ("justgrinding", "mrMathias", "betrayeddad", and more recently "KingwoodKev") and most of them opted for trying R but it took them alot of time, and some divorced in the end.

Now what you call emotional abuse I almost sure is whiplashing if you have read about R also totally normal given the circumstances and more taking in consideration it has been *JUST FIVE MONTHS*, also the leaving the counselor thing, puff that is a given almost any Bs here has changed counselor once or twice when he/she says something they don't feel is right (and I have to say that many idiots that call themselves marital counselors just don't know a single thing about infidelity and R).

Lastly and most important *YOU ARE PREGNANT*, in you husband mind that is probably unfair if he is a good man at heart he probably feels unfairly forced to R, think about it, how a man can throw out his pregnant wife with a 3 yar old daughter, your case remind me at "MrMathias's case" who was in a similar predicament, he even in sarcastic manner claped his hands to his wife and told her well played (as if now he was forced to R), MrMathias even in one of his rants say something like "he would want the baby to be OM's so he can freely kick her out" but at heart he knew it was his, probably alot like what is happenin to your husband.

Being pregnant is from certain point of view very unfair to the BS (if is his of course), take his inmediate option out of the table, probably wondering how couod he live by leaving without father a newborn innocent of all, of course then is nomal for him to project his anger not just for the affair against you, but also for taking his choices out of the table at least for the moment.

think about it, and read more BS threads, you will find alot of lashing even in those with sucessfull reconcilation as EI and B1


----------



## BURNT KEP

manticore said:


> rrhouse
> I don't think you are completely selfcentered, but maybe you are wanting to change in your favor to fast, I have reading your posts and let me tell ypu something.
> 
> *5 months are nothing* we have users that have been in the limbo undecided to reconcile or divorce for several more months and some even for a couple of years ("justgrinding", "mrMathias", "betrayeddad", and more recently "KingwoodKev") and most of them opted for trying R but it took them alot of time, and some divorced in the end.
> 
> Now what you call emotional abuse I almost sure is whiplashing if you have read about R also totally normal given the circumstances and more taking in consideration it has been *JUST FIVE MONTHS*, also the leaving the counselor thing, puff that is a given almost any Bs here has changed counselor once or twice when he/she says something they don't feel is right (and I have to say that many idiots that call themselves marital counselors just don't know a single thing about infidelity and R).
> 
> Lastly and most important *YOU ARE PREGNANT*, in you husband mind that is probably unfair if he is a good man at heart he probably feels unfairly forced to R, think about it, how a man can throw out his pregnant wife with a 3 yar old daughter, your case remind me at "MrMathias's case" who was in a similar predicament, he even in sarcastic manner claped his hands to his wife and told her well played (as if now he was forced to R), MrMathias even in one of his rants say something like "he would want the baby to be OM's so he can freely kick her out" but at heart he knew it was his, probably alot like what is happenin to your husband.
> 
> Being pregnant is from certain point of view very unfair to the BS (if is his of course), take his inmediate option out of the table, probably wondering how couod he live by leaving without father a newborn innocent of all, of course then is nomal for him to project his anger not just for the affair against you, but also for taking his choices out of the table at least for the moment.
> 
> think about it, and read more BS threads, you will find alot of lashing even in those with sucessfull reconcilation as EI and B1


I can't agree more. I am over 3 years out and the rage at this point is mostly gone I remember being in a bad place for a long time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrhouse

lifeistooshort said:


> Based on his behavior before your affairs it's likely he abused his exes too but I bet he's not given one iota of thought to how he treats the women in his life. That's how abusers are, their behavior is normal and they're huge victims when their victims react.
> This is further evidenced by his refusal to acknowledge his abusive behavior is unacceptable..... that's normal for him.
> 
> Of course he doesn't want a divorce, he'll have to pay and he won't have the satisfaction of a punching bag. You can't fix his issues. He's going to control you with more and abuse, if you stick around that's what you'll get.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The funny thing is his past girlfriend and wife cheated on him because he was TOO clingy. He was overprotective and wanted to be with them all the time. I became distant because I thought he didn't care and I lost hope for the marriage. 

To be clear-- I cheated because I wasn't handling the situation correctly, but the distance was caused by him pushing me away. I don't want anyone to think I'm saying I cheated because he didn't care


----------



## rrhouse

manticore said:


> rrhouse
> I don't think you are completely selfcentered, but maybe you are wanting to change in your favor to fast, I have reading your posts and let me tell ypu something.
> 
> *5 months are nothing* we have users that have been in the limbo undecided to reconcile or divorce for several more months and some even for a couple of years ("justgrinding", "mrMathias", "betrayeddad", and more recently "KingwoodKev") and most of them opted for trying R but it took them alot of time, and some divorced in the end.
> 
> Now what you call emotional abuse I almost sure is whiplashing if you have read about R also totally normal given the circumstances and more taking in consideration it has been *JUST FIVE MONTHS*, also the leaving the counselor thing, puff that is a given almost any Bs here has changed counselor once or twice when he/she says something they don't feel is right (and I have to say that many idiots that call themselves marital counselors just don't know a single thing about infidelity and R).
> 
> Part of my confusion is that he was emotionally abusive before I ever cheated. He will agree with this. He knows he was bored with life- or whatever- and would come home from work, get drunk, and pick on me on a regular basis because it was entertainment for him. Sometimes he'll deny this and say he was mean to me because I was trying to "flex my balls" by asking him to help me raise our daughter instead of drinking and belittling me all the time. He said something along the lines of "mothers don't hold a candle to what a man does at work. In the end, money is everything". Basically because I didn't contribute financially, I was nothing. I had no say in the marriage and my opinions/feelings/needs were beneath him.
> 
> Now that I have cheated, I'm trying to discern what anger and blowups are a natural response to the betrayal, and what's inappropriate and abusive. There's a big gray area there and it's making me feel crazy. I wonder if I'm making excuses for him, or if I really deserve everything he throws at me. My family and friends know all the gory details of the cheating and still think his behavior is inappropriate- urging me to leave. I still have a heart and blame some (ALOT) of this anger on my own actions, but need to draw a line. My question is- where do I draw it?
> 
> Lastly and most important *YOU ARE PREGNANT*, in you husband mind that is probably unfair if he is a good man at heart he probably feels unfairly forced to R, think about it, how a man can throw out his pregnant wife with a 3 yar old daughter, your case remind me at "MrMathias's case" who was in a similar predicament, he even in sarcastic manner claped his hands to his wife and told her well played (as if now he was forced to R), MrMathias even in one of his rants say something like "he would want the baby to be OM's so he can freely kick her out" but at heart he knew it was his, probably alot like what is happenin to your husband.
> 
> I dug around and read up on this story, and it's much different from mine aside from the pregnancy. In fact, my husband also clapped his hands and said, "Well played." Funny, but not. There was some question about the second OM that I kissed. My husband suspected there was more to it because the OM wouldn't come forward and verify my story. This was about a month before I conceived, and I hid the kiss from my H until AFTER I was pregnant. So yes, he felt trapped. He still feels trapped and was questioning paternity.
> 
> A few nights ago H told me he had a nightmare and he "just knew" there was more to the kiss story than I told him, which is untrue. It was a kiss. I was able to finally get the A-Hole OM to respond to me via email about the kiss and confirm that it was, in fact, just a kiss- just one meetup when I was drunk and actually wanted to hang out with his sister- not him. H thought I was dating this guy for months or something, which is understandable. But now that the OM answered and confirmed the truth, that helps a tiny bit. H is still pissed that he would not have impregnated me had he known about the kiss when it happened, instead of a week after I got the positive preg test and decided to fess up. In his heart he knew the baby was his the whole time, but as a good man he feels trapped. I get it.
> 
> And, like Mrs and Mr Mathias, H and I had been having unprotected sex since our daughter was born without incident. This pregnancy just happened to occur in a short period of time when my cycle was literally a week off, due to my period coming late the month before. Perhaps it was stress, I don't know. I know that's TMI but the bottom line is, I didn't plan the pregnancy as a trap. The last thing we needed on top of everything was a baby. He didn't even want the baby before he know about the OM#2 kiss. In fact, he tried to bully me into abortion by threatening to call me a wh*re on facebook for all of our friends and family to see (To which I responded, go for it- I'd be more ashamed of aborting a baby because my husband bullied me into it). Only after discovery of OM#2 did he have a real excuse to call the baby a "trophy of betrayal".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Being pregnant is from certain point of view very unfair to the BS (if is his of course), take his inmediate option out of the table, probably wondering how couod he live by leaving without father a newborn innocent of all, of course then is nomal for him to project his anger not just for the affair against you, but also for taking his choices out of the table at least for the moment.
> 
> think about it, and read more BS threads, you will find alot of lashing even in those with sucessfull reconcilation as EI and B1




I read TAM all the time and understand that the anger lasts a long time. I tend to ramble a little, but I have a lot to say about the things you said. I try to be accommodating to the things that make him tick. I don't talk about the baby around him. I named her myself, I go to appointments by myself, I told my family to keep their mouths shut about it, I don't post on Facebook every four seconds like all my pregnant friends.... I'm really trying to be empathetic here. 

At the same time I'm concerned for this baby. My three year old also knows "daddy doesn't like the baby", and I get the feeling my husband is going to resent me later on because of his own choice to detach from this baby. It's really a lose/lose either way. I'm just ready to decide what's best for the whole family and move forward. Staying here on my knees as the "attention-seeking wh*re" I'm defined as right now- in his eyes- is not where I need to be. I need to be a person who is growing, MADE some horrible decisions, and is now MAKING positive changes. 

Again I apologize for rambling. I'm deep in thought today.


----------



## rrhouse

BURNT KEP said:


> I can't agree more. I am over 3 years out and the rage at this point is mostly gone I remember being in a bad place for a long time.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That's reassuring to hear, although I'm sorry you suffered and are suffering for so long. If there's one thing I've learned from all of this, it's that cheating is extremely damaging and lasts a lifetime, regardless of the outcome. That's why I am trying to be extremely patient and understanding.


----------



## ConanHub

Anger is acceptable, abuse is not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## rrhouse

This whole situation just has me so confused. I've been getting panic attacks and anxiety almost every day since the big blowup last week and again a few days ago. The whole situation in general is just shameful and I'm looking at myself like some evil disgusting person. 

I'm feeling anxious with the upcoming due date, uncertainty of whether or not I'll have another c-section, if things will go wrong, will my husband make the delivery even more traumatic? Will I get post-partum and be one of those crazy moms who drives off a cliff or something?I'm so afraid of all the stress surrounding this situation and feel guilty that my whole family is here because of me. Maybe it's hormones or something but I'm just really overwhelmed and feeling dizzy and out of it with anxiety. 

I'm totally not looking for sympathy, just venting a little. I'm hoping that writing all of that out will help it subside. I'm sure my husband is filled with similar uncertainties about himself and the upcoming due date. There's so much tension in this house. I feel crazy.


----------



## turnera

rrhouse said:


> This whole situation just has me so confused. I've been getting panic attacks and anxiety almost every day since the big blowup last week.


Have you started reading the book? You need to understand what you're dealing with.


----------



## rrhouse

turnera said:


> Have you started reading the book? You need to understand what you're dealing with.



I have, thank you. I am having a hard time imagining my husband as some sort of manipulative mastermind, as the book describes it. The examples she gives though are so close to my situation, it's scary. Nothing is ever good enough, his insults are jokes, making me feel guilty for standing up for myself, etc. I listened to one of my recordings of him yelling yesterday while my daughter was at school. He is great at twisting things and changing topics without me realizing. It's scary and at the same time I'm in disbelief that he could do these things. I swear I'm going crazy. We're both messed up people if you think about it. It's sick that we can both be so mean.


----------



## turnera

Most abusers are not really manipulative masterminds, at least not CONSCIOUSLY. But they DO SUBconsciously figure out what they need to do to maintain control.


----------



## cdbaker

turnera said:


> Most abusers are not really manipulative masterminds, at least not CONSCIOUSLY. But they DO SUBconsciously figure out what they need to do to maintain control.


:iagree:

This exactly.

Ultimately though, he's got to make a decision. I really think you just need to sit him down, one-on-one if he can't agree to do so with a marriage counselor, and tell him that you need him to make a decision about whether he will be able to forgive you and move on, or not. I think enough time has passed that he isn't still lost in the emotional shock of the situation, he's actively holding onto it for dear life and refusing to let go. You can continue to be committed to doing whatever you can do to help him heal of course, and you should if he's willing, but he has to make the decision now. You definitely screwed up and have been rightfully dealing with the consequences of your choice, but you shouldn't have to deal with this pregnancy and birth alone, and your children shouldn't be held responsible either.

Without question, it's a lousy situation for everyone involved. Certainly everyone involved is a victim, but both of you have to decide to not be victims anymore, one way or the other.


----------



## turnera

One of the better articles I've seen:

*Examples of Verbal and Emotional Abuse*

- By Aames

WHAT THEY DO:

Ridicule or insult you then tell you it's a joke, or that you have no sense of humor.
Put down your beliefs, religion, race, heritage - or that of your family / friends.
Withhold approval, appreciation or affection.
Give you the silent treatment.
Ignore direct questions...Walk away without answering.
Criticize you, call you names, yell at you.
Humiliate you privately or in public.
Roll his or her eyes ... or mimic you when you talk.
Disrespect or insult you, then tell you that you're too sensitive.
Seem energized by arguing, while arguing exhausts you.
Have unpredictable mood swings, alternating between good and bad for no apparent reason.
"Twist" your words, somehow turning whatever you say against you.
Complain about how badly you treat him or her.
Threaten to leave, or threaten to throw you out.
Say things that make you feel good, but do things that make you feel bad.
Compliment you enough to keep you happy, yet criticize you enough to keep you insecure.
Harass you about imagined affairs.
Manipulate you with lies and contradictions.
Act immature and selfish, yet accuse you of those behaviors.
Question your every move and motive, somehow questioning your competence.
Constantly interrupt you while you're trying to make your point.
Make you feel like you can never win : damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Incite you to rage, which is "proof" that you are the one with the "problem" - not them.
Try to convince you that they are "right," while you are "wrong".
Frequently say things that are later denied or accuse you of misunderstanding.

What it feels like

- By Aames

Abuse can have a confusing. hurtful. frightening effect which makes you feel emotionally unsafe. You may begin to doubt yourself, your senses, your opinions, memories, beliefs, feelings, abilities and judgment. You may begin to express your opinions less and less freely and find yourself doubting your sense of reality. You are likely to feel vulnerable, insecure, increasingly trapped and powerless. This may lead you to become defensive and increasingly depressed.

Abuse victims often find themselves "walking on eggshells" around the abuser, hyper vigilant and afraid of when - and how - to say something.

You may find yourself constantly on your "best" behavior around an abuser, unable to relax or enjoy the moment because you are always anticipating the worst. Even when the abuser is in a good mood, you are likely to keep waiting for "the other shoe to drop".

You may also begin to blame yourself for their bad mood, behaviors or actions and hope things will change, especially through your own love and understanding.

People who are abused often long for the nicer, caring side of their partner, family member, friend, boss or co-worker to come back. You may find yourself making excuses for their bad behavior and choosing to focus mainly on getting them back into their good behavior state.

Coping with Emotional Abuse

You have two basic options – remain present during an episode of abuse, or leave.

In the short run they are about equal in pain, but in the long run, leaving during an outburst is better. For one thing, leaving makes it harder for you to do something stupid yourself (such as retaliate). It also makes it impossible for anything worse to happen directly to you after you leave. Leaving during an outburst sends a clear “This is not OK” message. It won’t be appreciated, but it will not be forgotten quickly either.

Leaving also helps remind you that YOU are in control - not the person with the Personality Disorder - and it gives you an opportunity to debrief to a supportive friend.

It’s a good idea to have a plan of what you will do and where you will go the next time an outburst hits. This will make a gracious exit more possible the next time you are confronted with verbal or emotional abuse. It helps enormously to have a friend or family member you can pre-arrange with to show up at a moment’s notice whenever necessary. If not, maybe you can find a local low-cost hotel where you can get a safe room for the night.

You may want to have a ‘bail out’ kit which has your credit cards, essential medications and important documents already packed so you don’t need to linger when you need to get out in a hurry.

If at all possible, pre-arrange with a friend whom you can call (even during the night) just to talk to if you find yourself in a situation like this. Just having someone on the end of the line who won’t attack or judge you harshly for the way you feel is an enormous relief. You can also call a Domestic Violence hotline or crisis line for support and for a reality check. As the adage says: You didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it. 

What NOT to do

Don’t remain in the same room with a person who is abusing you. Remove yourself from the situation as quickly as you safely can.
Don’t try to handle it all on your own. Call for supportive help and call the police if any threats or violence occur.
Don’t try to reason with someone who is abusing you. When you are confronted with aggressive behavior there can be a temptation to stand your ground, explain your position and argue for what you feel is right. A person who is trying to hurt you emotionally or verbally is unlikely to see reason.
Don’t fight fire with fire and reciprocate. You will regret it and probably find yourself still apologizing for it years later.
Don’t ignore it, steel yourself and tell yourself that you can handle it and that it does not affect you. Unless you are a robot your feelings are going to be hurt and your behavior is going to change far beyond the moment, whether you admit it or not. The reality is that when your boundaries are being crossed you are being hurt. Ignoring it increases the likelihood that the situation will repeat itself.
Don’t hide it from others. Most long-term cases of abuse stay that way because the victim stays silent.
What TO do

Remember you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it.
Get yourself and any children out of the room and out of the house as quickly and safely as you can.
If violence or threats of violence have occurred, call the police immediately.
Stay away from the situation until the abuse stops and you feel calmer and safe.
Call at least one trusted confidant and tell them what has happened.

Out of the FOG - Emotional Abuse


----------



## rrhouse

turnera said:


> One of the better articles I've seen:
> 
> *Examples of Verbal and Emotional Abuse*
> 
> - By Aames
> 
> WHAT THEY DO:
> 
> Ridicule or insult you then tell you it's a joke, or that you have no sense of humor.
> Put down your beliefs, religion, race, heritage - or that of your family / friends.
> Withhold approval, appreciation or affection.
> Give you the silent treatment.
> Ignore direct questions...Walk away without answering.
> Criticize you, call you names, yell at you.
> Humiliate you privately or in public.
> Roll his or her eyes ... or mimic you when you talk.
> Disrespect or insult you, then tell you that you're too sensitive.
> Seem energized by arguing, while arguing exhausts you.
> Have unpredictable mood swings, alternating between good and bad for no apparent reason.
> "Twist" your words, somehow turning whatever you say against you.
> Complain about how badly you treat him or her.
> Threaten to leave, or threaten to throw you out.
> Say things that make you feel good, but do things that make you feel bad.
> Compliment you enough to keep you happy, yet criticize you enough to keep you insecure.
> Harass you about imagined affairs.
> Manipulate you with lies and contradictions.
> Act immature and selfish, yet accuse you of those behaviors.
> Question your every move and motive, somehow questioning your competence.
> Constantly interrupt you while you're trying to make your point.
> Make you feel like you can never win : damned if you do, damned if you don't.
> Incite you to rage, which is "proof" that you are the one with the "problem" - not them.
> Try to convince you that they are "right," while you are "wrong".
> Frequently say things that are later denied or accuse you of misunderstanding.
> 
> What it feels like
> 
> - By Aames
> 
> Abuse can have a confusing. hurtful. frightening effect which makes you feel emotionally unsafe. You may begin to doubt yourself, your senses, your opinions, memories, beliefs, feelings, abilities and judgment. You may begin to express your opinions less and less freely and find yourself doubting your sense of reality. You are likely to feel vulnerable, insecure, increasingly trapped and powerless. This may lead you to become defensive and increasingly depressed.
> 
> Abuse victims often find themselves "walking on eggshells" around the abuser, hyper vigilant and afraid of when - and how - to say something.
> 
> You may find yourself constantly on your "best" behavior around an abuser, unable to relax or enjoy the moment because you are always anticipating the worst. Even when the abuser is in a good mood, you are likely to keep waiting for "the other shoe to drop".
> 
> You may also begin to blame yourself for their bad mood, behaviors or actions and hope things will change, especially through your own love and understanding.
> 
> People who are abused often long for the nicer, caring side of their partner, family member, friend, boss or co-worker to come back. You may find yourself making excuses for their bad behavior and choosing to focus mainly on getting them back into their good behavior state.
> 
> Coping with Emotional Abuse
> 
> You have two basic options – remain present during an episode of abuse, or leave.
> 
> In the short run they are about equal in pain, but in the long run, leaving during an outburst is better. For one thing, leaving makes it harder for you to do something stupid yourself (such as retaliate). It also makes it impossible for anything worse to happen directly to you after you leave. Leaving during an outburst sends a clear “This is not OK” message. It won’t be appreciated, but it will not be forgotten quickly either.
> 
> Leaving also helps remind you that YOU are in control - not the person with the Personality Disorder - and it gives you an opportunity to debrief to a supportive friend.
> 
> It’s a good idea to have a plan of what you will do and where you will go the next time an outburst hits. This will make a gracious exit more possible the next time you are confronted with verbal or emotional abuse. It helps enormously to have a friend or family member you can pre-arrange with to show up at a moment’s notice whenever necessary. If not, maybe you can find a local low-cost hotel where you can get a safe room for the night.
> 
> You may want to have a ‘bail out’ kit which has your credit cards, essential medications and important documents already packed so you don’t need to linger when you need to get out in a hurry.
> 
> If at all possible, pre-arrange with a friend whom you can call (even during the night) just to talk to if you find yourself in a situation like this. Just having someone on the end of the line who won’t attack or judge you harshly for the way you feel is an enormous relief. You can also call a Domestic Violence hotline or crisis line for support and for a reality check. As the adage says: You didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it.
> 
> What NOT to do
> 
> Don’t remain in the same room with a person who is abusing you. Remove yourself from the situation as quickly as you safely can.
> Don’t try to handle it all on your own. Call for supportive help and call the police if any threats or violence occur.
> Don’t try to reason with someone who is abusing you. When you are confronted with aggressive behavior there can be a temptation to stand your ground, explain your position and argue for what you feel is right. A person who is trying to hurt you emotionally or verbally is unlikely to see reason.
> Don’t fight fire with fire and reciprocate. You will regret it and probably find yourself still apologizing for it years later.
> Don’t ignore it, steel yourself and tell yourself that you can handle it and that it does not affect you. Unless you are a robot your feelings are going to be hurt and your behavior is going to change far beyond the moment, whether you admit it or not. The reality is that when your boundaries are being crossed you are being hurt. Ignoring it increases the likelihood that the situation will repeat itself.
> Don’t hide it from others. Most long-term cases of abuse stay that way because the victim stays silent.
> What TO do
> 
> Remember you didn’t cause it, you can’t cure it and you can’t control it.
> Get yourself and any children out of the room and out of the house as quickly and safely as you can.
> If violence or threats of violence have occurred, call the police immediately.
> Stay away from the situation until the abuse stops and you feel calmer and safe.
> Call at least one trusted confidant and tell them what has happened.
> 
> Out of the FOG - Emotional Abuse




I checked off all but a few of these abusive traits, and these are things he did before I ever betrayed him. 

He is now planning to "ignore me as much as possible" and stay married. This will keep our daughter (he never acknowledge his second daughter we're expecting) with us under the same roof, because he doesn't want to divorce and start over . It would be too much work. 

I think this is CRAZY and honestly it just hurts. He basically said he doesn't want me around but gas no choice. I'm leaving as soon as I'm physically able to. This is so unhealthy. Thank you again for the info and advice .


----------



## rrhouse

Another weird thing. .. last night he spent hours in his office drinking and looking at porn. He emailed me a old video of us being intimate and said "remember this?" I was putting our kid to bed so I didn't get a chance to see it or talk to him about it until today. 

He just said "I was going through old stuff and saw that." That was his only explanation. Wtf?


----------



## cdbaker

Him sending you that video is odd... could be a number of reasons...

Could be him just trying to hurt you some more, a "guilt trip" of sorts, like saying, "Hey Remember our good times? Remember how you enjoyed this? But you still threw it all away? Yep, are you happy now??" If so, remember that this is likely just his (cruel) way of dealing with his own pain/anger that he seems to be holding onto tightly.

It could be him feeling sad or nostalgic. Sending it to you as if you remind you of a positive memory that you too might miss or wish you could have back again as well.

I probably would have told him off in that situation, calmly. Asking why he would send that to you? If that's something he wants with you again, then say so and start working with you to make that happen. If he is just trying to be mean, then he and his repeated cruelty can just go f**k himself. Heck, getting upset about it might show him that it hurts you too, that it still means something to you. (Obviously it does, but he might be doubtful)


----------



## rrhouse

cdbaker said:


> Him sending you that video is odd... could be a number of reasons...
> 
> Could be him just trying to hurt you some more, a "guilt trip" of sorts, like saying, "Hey Remember our good times? Remember how you enjoyed this? But you still threw it all away? Yep, are you happy now??" If so, remember that this is likely just his (cruel) way of dealing with his own pain/anger that he seems to be holding onto tightly.
> 
> It could be him feeling sad or nostalgic. Sending it to you as if you remind you of a positive memory that you too might miss or wish you could have back again as well.
> 
> I probably would have told him off in that situation, calmly. Asking why he would send that to you? If that's something he wants with you again, then say so and start working with you to make that happen. If he is just trying to be mean, then he and his repeated cruelty can just go f**k himself. Heck, getting upset about it might show him that it hurts you too, that it still means something to you. (Obviously it does, but he might be doubtful)


I'm going to go with nostalgic. I looked at his computer to see where the heck he got that video and what he was doing with it, and I found pictures of his ex in his recent documents\. He also specifically googled "Tall Skinny Porn", which is the body type his ex has. I'm short and thick.. and pregnant. 

At first I thought he was going to post the video of him and I online or something mean like that, but I guess he was just reminiscing. It really bothers me but at the same time I need to start detaching from the painful stuff. Either he was sending that video to beckon me to the bedroom, which I have no interest in after he told me he wants nothing to do with me and he hates me- or he was feeling nostalgic about all of his past relationships or the "better times". If he wants tall and skinny he's in the wrong place. When he snuck that picture of a woman's butt in the bar he hangs out at, she was also tall and skinny. Nothing like me.


----------



## vellocet

rrhouse said:


> My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me. So technically he's married to our daughter right now, because he makes it clear most of the time that he's not interested in me.


And that is a problem for reconciliation. But sorry to say, its something you are just going to have to put up with for a while until he decides what is going to happen. Remember, you did this to him. Its painful and makes even the most rational of us act irrational.





> I am trying so very hard to help him heal: I paid for counseling for a month- he decided he didn't want to go anymore because the counselor "sucks"


Does he see the counselor as being on your side of things or shifting blame to him? Or is it just and excuse not to go?




> I cut off friends involved with the affair, I don't go anywhere alone unless I'm running errands, I have ONE friend that I talk to that he is nice to her face and mean behind her back, I have been quiet about the pregnancy because he didn't want it, I delete males on Facebook as he picks them out and decides I might cheat on him with them, I let him vent and yell and call me names and don't expect an apology, and I'm still going to IC. What more can I do?


First off I don't condone the name calling (although if it is anything related to "cheater", I don't blame him)

What more can you do? Be patient. IF he decides its time to let it go, it needs to be on his timetable. Isn't much more you can do other than that.

If I were to stay with a cheating partner, they'd have to be at least doing the things you are already doing.





> He still calls me a ****, says he doesn't want the baby, yet he doesn't want a divorce, is angry that I'm doing positive things with myself because I should be on his level of depression.. He spends several days a week drinking at bars with his friend and then coming home and letting me have it in the form of a drunken monologue/rant. I just can't figure out ways to help him heal. He keeps saying "You fix it!" but I can only do so much on my own.



He may be in too much pain to reconcile. Its a heavy blow to be dealt. I understand his anger and his roller coaster of emotions. (but his calling you specific names isn't acceptable)

So at this point you have only 2 choices since you are already doing things expected of a WS that is supposed to be in reconciliation.

1) give it more time, be patient with him

or 2) realize that its never going to get better and take steps towards divorce


----------



## harrybrown

Sorry for both of you. Hope you and your kids stay safe. 

Be sure when things are calm and with someone around to protect you, to let him know that you are leaving because he is in such pain and abusing you. Tell him you are sorry for his pain, but he has made it impossible for you to be safe.

I do realize that sometimes we hurt each other. Recently, I was having a bad dream. My wife woke me up because I was hollering in my sleep. In my dream, I was trying to push the OM out of our house and close the door. She told me that I was hollering at her to close the door. Yes the pain hurts, but lately, I have been trying to deal with the grief, anger and pain in positive ways.

Someone has to tell your H that all this anger is going to get him into trouble. I am trying to decrease my anger with exercise and removing myself from the situation. I hope someone will help him see that the expression of the anger will get him in trouble. I was angry and I started to drive and the anger was expressed as an angry driver. I did not do anything, but my wife told me that I needed to change. I am seeing a counselor by myself to work my attitude and the anger. From her actions, I felt like a worthless man. But I do have some good points. I have worked hard for many years to support my family. If we get divorced and we split 50/50, she will only get over half a million, but hopefully she would not get more than that, and she would lose over a half a million of our assets to me. Our children are grown, but I still have to loan them money from time to time but I would not have to pay child support. If I have to pay alimony, I will quit my job. 
We started out with little when we were married, I only had a few thousand dollars. I do have faults, but I am trying to see that I also have some self-esteem hopefully someday.

However, I do feel compassion for my wife. Recently she was in a car wreck. She was not physically hurt. But she was emotionally scarred by the experience. The other driver started cursing her, and screaming at her. He got out of his vehicle and made a lousy example for his kid that was in his car. My wife started to get out, but when he started kicking our car, keying our car and tearing off the windshield wipers, and kicking the car and trying to break the windows, she got back in the car and called 911. So my wife is crying to the 911 operator. 

He gets back into his car when the sirens are heard. So she is pressing charges. He now has a criminal complaint against him.

The officer talked to me on the phone. He told me to stay away so that I did not make the situation worse. I wanted to come help her.

Your H may not care, but if he is not careful with the expression of his anger, he can get in a mess. I wish my wife would not have had this experience, and we are not finished with this yet. But it is a good lesson for me to see what could happen to me, if I do not get my anger under control. 

I only share this to try and help. You can't stay with you and your kids with this abuse. But be safe. Try and help your H even if you are away from him to honestly tell him if he is of any worth. But do be honest. 

If my wife's OM was so much better than me, I would like to know. 

good luck to you and your kids, stay safe. It was not a good idea to cheat, but you do not have to take the abuse. Hope you both can start treating each other better.


----------



## rrhouse

vellocet said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me. So technically he's married to our daughter right now, because he makes it clear most of the time that he's not interested in me.
> 
> 
> 
> And that is a problem for reconciliation. But sorry to say, its something you are just going to have to put up with for a while until he decides what is going to happen. Remember, you did this to him. Its painful and makes even the most rational of us act irrational.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am trying so very hard to help him heal: I paid for counseling for a month- he decided he didn't want to go anymore because the counselor "sucks"
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Does he see the counselor as being on your side of things or shifting blame to him? Or is it just and excuse not to go?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I cut off friends involved with the affair, I don't go anywhere alone unless I'm running errands, I have ONE friend that I talk to that he is nice to her face and mean behind her back, I have been quiet about the pregnancy because he didn't want it, I delete males on Facebook as he picks them out and decides I might cheat on him with them, I let him vent and yell and call me names and don't expect an apology, and I'm still going to IC. What more can I do?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> First off I don't condone the name calling (although if it is anything related to "cheater", I don't blame him)
> 
> What more can you do? Be patient. IF he decides its time to let it go, it needs to be on his timetable. Isn't much more you can do other than that.
> 
> If I were to stay with a cheating partner, they'd have to be at least doing the things you are already doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He still calls me a ****, says he doesn't want the baby, yet he doesn't want a divorce, is angry that I'm doing positive things with myself because I should be on his level of depression.. He spends several days a week drinking at bars with his friend and then coming home and letting me have it in the form of a drunken monologue/rant. I just can't figure out ways to help him heal. He keeps saying "You fix it!" but I can only do so much on my own.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> He may be in too much pain to reconcile. Its a heavy blow to be dealt. I understand his anger and his roller coaster of emotions. (but his calling you specific names isn't acceptable)
> 
> So at this point you have only 2 choices since you are already doing things expected of a WS that is supposed to be in reconciliation.
> 
> 1) give it more time, be patient with him
> 
> or 2) realize that its never going to get better and take steps towards divorce
Click to expand...


I know this is painful and life altering experience, and I feel absolutely terrible for inflicting this upon him. I have tried to just be patient with being in limbo, and I really wouldn't mind if it didn't also mean him being emotionally and verbally abusive towards me and him neglecting our children, drinking constantly, spending all of our money on booze and skipping groceries and doctor bills, etc. For everything abusive he does, he uses the excuse that I made him the person he is. 

This is unacceptable. If he can't also take responsibility for his abusive and wrong behavior, we have a one sided marriage. He was emotionally abusive and an alcoholic before I cheated. I am sorry for cheating and wanted to help him heal, but at this point I'm realizing I wasn't happy to begin with and things will not change. I have to let go. The efforts I've made for a year are for nothing, as he refuses to recognize them and even belittled . 

He keeps telling me letting go won't help because we will still have to interact to co-parent and he will still resent me for "forcing" him to divorce his family. In my opinion he's never home, he doesn't interact with our kid at home, and he yells at me and name calls in front of her. That's a sad excuse for a parent and THAT is not my fault. Sorry. How he chooses to keep picking the scab is not on me. 

This is unhealthy for all of us.


----------



## rrhouse

harrybrown said:


> Sorry for both of you. Hope you and your kids stay safe.
> 
> Be sure when things are calm and with someone around to protect you, to let him know that you are leaving because he is in such pain and abusing you. Tell him you are sorry for his pain, but he has made it impossible for you to be safe.
> 
> I do realize that sometimes we hurt each other. Recently, I was having a bad dream. My wife woke me up because I was hollering in my sleep. In my dream, I was trying to push the OM out of our house and close the door. She told me that I was hollering at her to close the door. Yes the pain hurts, but lately, I have been trying to deal with the grief, anger and pain in positive ways.
> 
> Someone has to tell your H that all this anger is going to get him into trouble. I am trying to decrease my anger with exercise and removing myself from the situation. I hope someone will help him see that the expression of the anger will get him in trouble. I was angry and I started to drive and the anger was expressed as an angry driver. I did not do anything, but my wife told me that I needed to change. I am seeing a counselor by myself to work my attitude and the anger. From her actions, I felt like a worthless man. But I do have some good points. I have worked hard for many years to support my family. If we get divorced and we split 50/50, she will only get over half a million, but hopefully she would not get more than that, and she would lose over a half a million of our assets to me. Our children are grown, but I still have to loan them money from time to time but I would not have to pay child support. If I have to pay alimony, I will quit my job.
> We started out with little when we were married, I only had a few thousand dollars. I do have faults, but I am trying to see that I also have some self-esteem hopefully someday.
> 
> However, I do feel compassion for my wife. Recently she was in a car wreck. She was not physically hurt. But she was emotionally scarred by the experience. The other driver started cursing her, and screaming at her. He got out of his vehicle and made a lousy example for his kid that was in his car. My wife started to get out, but when he started kicking our car, keying our car and tearing off the windshield wipers, and kicking the car and trying to break the windows, she got back in the car and called 911. So my wife is crying to the 911 operator.
> 
> He gets back into his car when the sirens are heard. So she is pressing charges. He now has a criminal complaint against him.
> 
> The officer talked to me on the phone. He told me to stay away so that I did not make the situation worse. I wanted to come help her.
> 
> Your H may not care, but if he is not careful with the expression of his anger, he can get in a mess. I wish my wife would not have had this experience, and we are not finished with this yet. But it is a good lesson for me to see what could happen to me, if I do not get my anger under control.
> 
> I only share this to try and help. You can't stay with you and your kids with this abuse. But be safe. Try and help your H even if you are away from him to honestly tell him if he is of any worth. But do be honest.
> 
> If my wife's OM was so much better than me, I would like to know.
> 
> good luck to you and your kids, stay safe. It was not a good idea to cheat, but you do not have to take the abuse. Hope you both can start treating each other better.



His anger is overtaking his life and he is being stubborn and choosing to drink it away. I have suggested healthy alternatives and he shuts them down because "they don't work". 

I am sorry you are going through a similar pain and I applaud you for taking a healthier route to recovery. That alone should tell you that you have good qualities and are a valuable person. 

My husband is fascinated with revenge and lately has suggested I lure OM to me do he can physically assault him. I have no idea where this guy is or how to get a hold of him, but H keeps digging through my phone to find clues. He apparently won't rest until OM "Bites a curb".


----------



## rrhouse

He sent me this text while I was putting our daughter to sleep last night. It was our 5 year anniversary, but next week will be the 1 year anniversary of my infidelity. He tried to get me to look at pictures of myself from that time while he narrated how sh*tty of a person I am, but I refused. If he'll never forgive me, I see no benefit in allowing him to beat me down. 

Here's the text: 

I still think, to this day, you dont fully understand what a marriage is. The type of person you were (are -minus being pregnant) when I met you was never obviously meant to be wife material. I fell in love with and had a beautiful child with someone who was just along for the ride, getting taken care of. instead of working out problems with your HUSBAND, you turned to someone else... that kind of personality, attitude, mentality cannot be fixed or changed. That's who you are and always will be. Unfortunately I'm the one who has to live with it, living with my mistake for the rest of my life. I may just be angry and venting, but go through all I've gone through and try not to feel the same 

It's easy to say "we should just end this" but you don't understand it means I have to put my daughter out on the street, because her mother did something to me that caused me to hate her





notice: He hates me and my personality is flawed. He knew I wasn't "wife material" and married me anyway, and for a year and a half let me know all the ways I was inadequate before I said I couldn't do it anymore and we needed help. I said many times if we didn't get help I couldn't stay married and his response was "I'm not a little b**ch, I don't have time for your emotions. YOU DEAL WITH IT, it's not my problem." 

I dealt with it the wrong way for sure, but for him to say I never tried working things out is utter bs. It makes me so angry that he has not only labeled me a wh*re for life, but is rewriting the history of our marriage . 

Also, saying I was along for the ride and being taken care of : I worked at home part time through pregnancy and the 1st 3 years of our child's life because I wanted to contribute. All the while he made fun of my job and belittled it because it wasn't manual labor like his job. 

I'm at a point where his actions disgust me. We were intimate 2 nights ago and then he did this yesterday. I'm done.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

So he was neglectful in the past, and all his partners cheated on him, that is his issue to work on. If he does not see a pattern of why his relationships keep failing, that is on him. You just own what you did, you don't own his previous neglect. Even if you get past the infidelity, and you both stayed married, he would still be a neglectful spouse.

I am assuming that he has anger issues stemming from his past. Even if you left him, his next wife is likely to cheat on him also. If he cannot see his own faults, then any relationship he comes into, will fail no matter what.

You need to focus on you. Work on your flaws to minimize them for a successful future. Chances are, you are highly more likely to find a fulfilling relationship, while he will continue the same pattern with every relationship he enters, until he looks at himself.

People do change if they learn. It is called wisdom for a reason. So learn and gain wisdom from this debacle, and know you can be a better person than from this. All of us has caused someone else pain along the way, doesn't mean that we are condemn to misery forever. I have known people whom left prison and make a positive influence on the younger generation's lives.


----------



## turnera

He's abusive and if you stay your daughter will pick an abusive husband too because it will be all she knows; she'll be taught that that's all women deserve.

Get out now.


----------



## vellocet

rrhouse said:


> I know this is painful and life altering experience, and I feel absolutely terrible for inflicting this upon him. I have tried to just be patient with being in limbo, and I really wouldn't mind if it didn't also mean him being emotionally and verbally abusive towards me and him neglecting our children, drinking constantly, spending all of our money on booze and skipping groceries and doctor bills, etc. For everything abusive he does, he uses the excuse that I made him the person he is.
> 
> This is unacceptable. If he can't also take responsibility for his abusive and wrong behavior, we have a one sided marriage. He was emotionally abusive and an alcoholic before I cheated. I am sorry for cheating and wanted to help him heal, but at this point I'm realizing I wasn't happy to begin with and things will not change. I have to let go. The efforts I've made for a year are for nothing, as he refuses to recognize them and even belittled .
> 
> He keeps telling me letting go won't help because we will still have to interact to co-parent and he will still resent me for "forcing" him to divorce his family. In my opinion he's never home, he doesn't interact with our kid at home, and he yells at me and name calls in front of her. That's a sad excuse for a parent and THAT is not my fault. Sorry. How he chooses to keep picking the scab is not on me.
> 
> This is unhealthy for all of us.


Then divorce him. As far as his behavior it will do 1 of 2 things.

1) make him even worse, and a downward spiral of being an alcoholic

or 2) once he is not with you any longer, it will be hard, perhaps he finds someone else, realizes life IS worth living, and he will improve.

Either way, I don't see this getting any better being with you. So it needs to end.


----------



## rrhouse

vellocet said:


> Then divorce him. As far as his behavior it will do 1 of 2 things.
> 
> 1) make him even worse, and a downward spiral of being an alcoholic
> 
> or 2) once he is not with you any longer, it will be hard, perhaps he finds someone else, realizes life IS worth living, and he will improve.
> 
> Either way, I don't see this getting any better being with you. So it needs to end.



My plans to divorce haven't changed. As the pregnancy progresses, I have been slowly organizing my belongings and packing things away. I do worry that our first child is going to associate the baby with the separation and might resent her for it. Right now she is so excited to have a little sister and I'd hate for that to change. 

My last posts were more of emotional venting than anything else. I'm not confused about what needs to happen, but it does still hurt. After sending all the mean text messages, the next day he tagged along to lunch with my mom, daughter, and I. 

We initially had plans to go do our taxes that day, so I asked him if he still wanted to go. He just looked at me and then looked away. He didn't answer, so I called my mom up and made plans with her. Without telling him anything or speaking to him anymore about it, my daughter and I began to get dressed an ready and he did too. I guess he just assumed I was getting ready to do taxes. When my mom showed up he looked confused and said he thought we were doing our taxes. I said "I asked you and you didn't answer, so I made other plans." Because he was already dressed I invited him to tag along, just to be polite. I was still annoyed that he ignored me when I asked him to do the taxes earlier, but whatever. I'm still a human being and didn't want to be completely rude. It ended up being a nice, beautiful day. Our daughter ran around and played, I ate lots of food and visited with my mom, he kind of went back and forth between us and the bar.

Since then he's been pretty civil, but hasn't even mentioned the texts or the conversation we had Saturday. I'm tired of the confusing behavior on his part. He gets drunk, tells me he hates me and then the next day continues life as usual, but he doesn't talk to me, touch me, etc. He bought our daughter a trampoline yesterday for no reason. I don't understand him and I feel like he does this to keep me confused and tripped up so he has control. Even though I've told him several times that I plan on leaving when the baby is born, I doubt he heard me. If he did hear me, he probably doesn't believe me. I'm sure he'll act surprised when it happens.


----------



## rrhouse

Mr.Fisty said:


> So he was neglectful in the past, and all his partners cheated on him, that is his issue to work on. If he does not see a pattern of why his relationships keep failing, that is on him. You just own what you did, you don't own his previous neglect. Even if you get past the infidelity, and you both stayed married, he would still be a neglectful spouse.
> 
> I am assuming that he has anger issues stemming from his past. Even if you left him, his next wife is likely to cheat on him also. If he cannot see his own faults, then any relationship he comes into, will fail no matter what.
> 
> You need to focus on you. Work on your flaws to minimize them for a successful future. Chances are, you are highly more likely to find a fulfilling relationship, while he will continue the same pattern with every relationship he enters, until he looks at himself.
> 
> People do change if they learn. It is called wisdom for a reason. So learn and gain wisdom from this debacle, and know you can be a better person than from this. All of us has caused someone else pain along the way, doesn't mean that we are condemn to misery forever. I have known people whom left prison and make a positive influence on the younger generation's lives.



I don't know why all of his relationships end in infidelity. He says in the past he used to be overprotective and clingy. My problem with him is that he was the opposite of clingy- he could care less what I did! He even told me that at the time I cheated he thought we were just "doing our own thing". He knew our marriage was in trouble and figured the best solution was to go out and do his own thing (drinking with the guys) and push me out of the house, away from him, to do my own thing (drinking with the girls- BAD IDEA). I never bring up his past relationships because I'm sure it's incredibly painful for him to have this keep happening. He has mentioned that it makes him feel completely worthless and wonder what's wrong with him. 

I plan on taking this experience as a sign that I have a lot of personal issues I need to address. Talking to my counselor, I realized that I have some childhood issues that cause me to choose relationships that are chaotic and "fixer uppers" (OM was a complete loser, couch surfer with no job), because I find peace in the chaos due to the way I grew up. I also noticed that my stepfather, who I call my father, was JUST like my husband. My mom and I have been talking about divorce and neglect and she told me a few weeks ago that my dad used to completely ignore her for weeks at a time if he was upset with her. My grandma even vouched for this, saying we would all go out to dinner and he would talk to everyone at the table except her. As a kid I guess I never noticed this, but it's interesting that I would marry a man that did the exact same thing to me. I have so much respect for my dad, but at the same time I'm noticing the similarities and wondering how I never noticed his passive aggressive tendencies as a child.


----------



## turnera

rrhouse said:


> We initially had plans to go do our taxes that day, so I asked him if he still wanted to go. He just looked at me and then looked away. He didn't answer, so I called my mom up and made plans with her. Without telling him anything or speaking to him anymore about it, my daughter and I began to get dressed an ready and he did too. I guess he just assumed I was getting ready to do taxes. When my mom showed up he looked confused and said he thought we were doing our taxes. *I said "I asked you and you didn't answer, so I made other plans."*


This is EXACTLY what my IC has been telling me to say to my H for years. I've always been too chicken. Our lives are a disaster because of it, always changing at his whim. I wish I had your courage.


----------



## rrhouse

turnera said:


> This is EXACTLY what my IC has been telling me to say to my H for years. I've always been too chicken. Our lives are a disaster because of it, always changing at his whim. I wish I had your courage.


Thank you. I don't think of myself as courageous, so it feels good to read that. 

I just get so tired of him blatantly ignoring me when I speak directly to him, so I thought I'd make my own plans and not let him ruin such a beautiful day. I did end up feeling guilty after, hence why I invited him to lunch with us anyway. Originally I hoped to just walk out the door without him.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I think you're actually paying for what he perceives to be the collective sins of his exes. Based on his treatment of you prior it's clear he came to this marriage with a b!tch up his behind, and after the cheating you started paying for all infidelities done by his exes. So it's not only anger at you, it's his collective anger at all exes and probably all women because they've shoved vast amounts of evil at poor victim him. You can't fix it. He'll probably fall apart initially without you to be his punching bag but he might enthusiastic eventually move past it. With you there he'll only wallow in pity and anger and drink himself to death. 

You should probably stop sleeping with him, it just makes you look weak.

I really pity the next woman in his life..... he'll view her as a cheap piece and receptacle of all his anger.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MachoMcCoy

rrhouse said:


> He spends several days a week drinking at bars with his friend and then coming home and letting me have it in the form of a drunken monologue/rant.


There's what I was looking for. So he hasn't changed. He's still an a-hole and a danger to you, himself and his family. And he's done nothing to fix himself. 

You cheated, came clean, did everything you were supposed to do. A little TOO much, if you ask me. You're taking WAY too much of the blame. The state your "family" is in right now is 100% on him. You need to understand that. HE needs to understand that. 

No more apologies. No more groveling. Look him straight in the eye, and with as much self-righteous indignation you can muster, tell him to fix his ass or you're gone. Sell it. He needs to know you are serious.

You're 26? Your whole life ahead of you. You don't need this.

When the F**K are men going to learn how to treat women?


----------



## GusPolinski

Yooooo rr... how you be?


----------



## bandit.45

Something about this thread doesn't sit well with me. 

This is one of the few instances where I can say that we are definitely getting only one side of the story. There is just way too much blameshifting on the BS. 

I don't buy that his previous relationships all cheated on him soley because he's a neglectful doosh.


----------



## WasHappyatOneTime

bandit.45 said:


> Something about this thread doesn't sit well with me.
> 
> This is one of the few instances where I can say that we are definitely getting only one side of the story. There is just way too much blameshifting on the BS.
> 
> I don't buy that his previous relationships all cheated on him soley because he's a neglectful doosh.


douche


----------



## bandit.45

WasHappyatOneTime said:


> douche


Doosh


----------



## MEOW

First like to say I am sorry for what you two are going through. Just so you might see some of the other side. One don't blame him he didn't have the affairs. You should be owning that you sought comfort elsewhere without trying to fix the problem. Two trust is earned back over time you did it twice that's a whole lot of earning that's not going to happen right away it took quite a lot of time to break your marriage it will take a lot to fix. That being said it doesn't sound like he wants to. But we can be emotional wrecks us humans when blindsided. I often out of the blue have panic and small bouts of depression mainly over the fact that I feel he broke us. We did finally commit and drew a line and from that point on I have made myself deal with my insecurity that creeps in. He also allowed me to put a gps on him so I don't have to trust right off I can see where he is when I need to. I helps me don't know if it is for everyone. But we love each other and it's worth the effort for us both to make it right again. Don't mean to offend so hopefully I didn't just want to give you a different view. You know your situation better than people here what are you willing to do and what is he willing to do. That's the big question for you two. Best of luck


----------



## rrhouse

GusPolinski said:


> Yooooo rr... how you be?


I'm still here, Gus. 

We are still working on the marriage. Our youngest was born two weeks early in March, and she is now 8 weeks. Between school and kids I've been very overwhelmed, so I haven't been on here much. My husband was very supportive when the baby born and is now committed to reconciliation, but he is rugsweeping. 

As much as you'd think a WW would want to rugsweep, I don't like it. I wish he would talk things out when something triggers him, or if he's just having a bad day. Instead he keeps it bottled up and is in a pretty foul mood most of the time. 

Although he cares for our new child, he told me he doesn't love her like he does our first child. He isn't bonding with her and says he "cares for her, but still thinks of her as a trophy of deception." I hate this for her. She didn't choose to be a part of this.

All in all, things are a thousand times better, but I still have some resentment for things that happened, fear that he will explode or just give up, regret for the things I've done, etc. We are putting this behind us and I am so grateful, but I'm letting a lot of bad behavior from him slip as well. I don't know what the future holds, but I'm happy that he has at least committed to the marriage 100%. 

Thank you for the input, everyone. I could go on and on but I'll just leave this brief update.


----------



## rrhouse

bandit.45 said:


> Something about this thread doesn't sit well with me.
> 
> This is one of the few instances where I can say that we are definitely getting only one side of the story. There is just way too much blameshifting on the BS.
> 
> I don't buy that his previous relationships all cheated on him soley because he's a neglectful doosh.


I'm not trying to blameshift, Bandit. I may not have posted it in this thread, but somewhere on TAM I have suggested that maybe the problem is in the type of women he is attracted to. Young, insecure, etc. 

I fully own the things I've done, and I started this thread wondering where to draw the line with his reactions. I still let alot of his bad behavior fly because I know I was wrong. I just don't know how much of what he does/did is normal BS behavior, or just the same emotional abuse as always with the excuse of betrayal stamped on it. 

A lot of his current behavior is justified by him with the end-all argument "AT least I'm not cheating". That's a card he pulls any time I express frustration with his behavior- and frankly it's not fair. I think that once he commits to reconciliation, that shouldn't be unfairly used to make me feel like sh*t in any argument.


----------



## ConanHub

Good to hear from you. He needs to bond with his child. The child is not another man's, I could understand that, so he needs to love his baby fully.

It will impact the child very negatively if he doesn't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

I guess by posting here that things were working out, I jinxed myself.

We were getting along fine until Saturday night. We were being intimate and I got frustrated because he was too drunk to perform (it was becoming painful for me and the baby woke up so I needed to FEED her), so I said we should try again Sunday. He got angry and started throwing stuff around and acting childish. He was upset because my night with OM was a long, drunk night in which neither of us could perform, but I didn't stop OM. That tiny detail that differed from my husband's and my experience Saturday night set him off and triggered him. OM got to finish and he didn't, so that's apparently a reason to lash out. 

Now he is angry with me again like the affair happened last weekend. Silent treatment, if we do speak, he's telling me I'm a ***** and he's trapped in this marriage, etc. Mind you, he's upset with me because I stopped having sex because it was painful AND my baby was crying, and his biggest concern is that he didn't get to finish. For me, that is just the final straw and I'm done trying to please him. I just had a c-section and the whole area is still healing, yet he's angry with me for stopping intercourse because it's too painful. Am I a prostitute? Am I not a human being? Did I lose all rights to my feelings when I cheated? I don't know. 

I'm looking for a job and quietly getting my ducks in a row to leave. I will file for custody and then file for child support. He is too drunk to be around the kids every day. I won't subject them to belligerent tirades and conversations about how I "owe him sex". Ridiculous. I asked him if he would want his daughters married to a man that angrily demands sex, and he said "If they're raised by you, they'll put themselves in situations like this where sex is expected". I don't think so. Women don't "owe" men anything sexual. Ever. 

Side note: 

He is also legitimately angry because sometimes I joke about giving him sexual favors if he brings me food from the bar he's always at. It's a JOKE- "I'll give you [sexual favor] for a cheeseburger!" Sometimes I will actually do it because I enjoy doing nice things for my husband, and sometimes I don't because I'm not a prostitute. Last week I didn't because he came home so drunk he passed out at the kitchen table while eating said cheeseburgers... and he stayed there several hours after I tried to wake him up to go to bed. Apparently he took me seriously and now I'm a manipulative liar because I owe him several sexual favors for cheeseburgers I've received over the past several months. And he's completely serious. He thinks I am some sort of manipulative mastermind and I frequently lied to him so I could get some cheeseburgers. 

Side note: I was pregnant and hungry, and he spent/spends a lot of time in bars.


----------



## rrhouse

Long story short: Husband believes that because I was ****ty once, I should degrade myself for the rest of our marriage if he wants me to. I will never rise above the horrible person I was if I keep doing degrading things.


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## turnera

Time for divorce.


----------



## bandit.45

And you need to go back to school, increase your job skills, and stop relying on this man to help support you and the kids. Get some counseling, figure yourself out and stop looking for men to fulfill your needs. That is half your damn problem right there. 

He's a drunk. Plain and simple. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I know one when I see one. He's also a conflict avoider, so the only time he has courage to get angry with you is when he's on the bottle. He lacks coping skills and the ability to be a 
partner in a marriage. 

Yeah, it's time to stick a fork in this marriage.


----------



## rrhouse

bandit.45 said:


> And you need to go back to school, increase your job skills, and stop relying on this man to help support you and the kids. Get some counseling, figure yourself out and stop looking for men to fulfill your needs. That is half your damn problem right there.
> 
> He's a drunk. Plain and simple. I'm a recovering alcoholic and I know one when I see one. He's also a conflict avoider, so the only time he has courage to get angry with you is when he's on the bottle. He lacks coping skills and the ability to be a
> partner in a marriage.
> 
> Yeah, it's time to stick a fork in this marriage.





I'm currently pursuing my master's- I have 2 semesters left, if even that. I'm also in counseling to work on building confidence on my own, without the approval of men. I started last year. 

I really wish we could work it out, but it's just not going to happen. Right now I need to think about the example this is setting for our kids, and gtfo. It sucks. I tried my best to make it work.


----------



## bandit.45

Right now all he wants to,do is drown his sorrows in booze...not deal with the issues in your relationship. 

Find an AlAnon group in your area and go to a few meetings. It is free and is a great resource that will show you ways to cope with having a husband who is an alcoholic.


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## lifeistooshort

Have you considered that by sticking around and accepting this treatment you send the message that it's ok to treat you like that? You say it's not but you're still there so clearly it is.

Why should he respect you, since you don't respect yourself? Quite possible be knows he treats you poorly but you accept it. We teach people how to treat us, and what you consider not giving up he sees as pathetic doormat behavior. 

You don't respect you so why should he? Abusers often find people like this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

Well, now I'm on the other side. I caught him this weekend going to a girl's house at 1am, drunk, while I have the kids at my grandmother's house for a visit. I called them both out. The girl is terrified I saw his texts, and he's saying "Don't worry. We're just going to hang out and kill time". Then he deleted the entire conversation and called me childish and stupid for calling him out. I am beyond done. My daughter's birthday party is this weekend and then I'm moving out.


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## rrhouse

He's still at her house too. He hasn't checked on the kids once today but he's been up her a** trying to hang out.


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## turnera

Good time to move on.


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## rrhouse

My completed petition for divorce is sitting on the table for him whenever he comes home from wherever he is.


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## ConanHub

Sorry for how things have worked out but I didn't see him doing anything healthy for reconciliation.

Glad you're calling it quits. Keep working on yourself and get in a better position to eventually attract a good, solid husband.

Chin up hon. You did your best.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Don't you have to actually file it with the courts?


----------



## morituri

I feel very sad for your children. They are the true victims of BOTH their parents immaturity and selfishness.


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## rrhouse

Today is a national holiday, but I think just having them there is enough to show how serious I am. He's still over there, he told me they're all eating dinner. The girl lives with his best friend and his wife, so he's acting like he really just meant to hang out with the guy the whole time. We have no groceries, my kid is hungry, and he's off at his little girlfriends house with her kid eating dinner.


----------



## rrhouse

morituri said:


> I feel very sad for your children. They are the true victims of BOTH their parents immaturity and selfishness.


Fair enough, but at least one of us tried their best to make it right.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Please go through with it this time. He has repeatedly shown you what he thinks of you and his kids and you have repeatedly shown him that it's ok to abuse you and you'll take it.

He thinks less and less of you every day you stick around because he knows he's treating you like sheet. It makes him feel powerful to know that you'll take it from him.

Your kids really do deserve better.


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## Borntohang

And to think, this all started after a "Drunken two-night stand" (not a One night) Now there are 2 kids involved... Just sad!


----------



## morituri

rrhouse said:


> Fair enough, but at least one of us tried their best to make it right.


Perhaps, but even if your STBXWH hadn't cheated, you have to admit that it's kind of hard to rebuild a home after you've burned it down.


----------



## lifeistooshort

morituri said:


> Perhaps, but even if your STBXWH hadn't cheated, you have to admit that it's kind of hard to rebuild a home after you've burned it down.


You clearly haven't read her whole backstory. She's made some mistakes but he's the one who burned it down. Please read up on her story.

Being cheated on sucks but it does not give anyone the right to abuse ww spouse or kids. If he couldn't deal with it then it was his right to divorce her, not to stick around and abuse all of them.

I assume when your wife cheated you did not spend the next number of years abusing her, you divorced her. That's what you do.


----------



## GusPolinski

Borntohang said:


> And to think, this all started after a "Drunken two-night stand" (not a One night) Now there are 2 kids involved... Just sad!


Read through her other threads. The abuse started well before that.


----------



## GusPolinski

morituri said:


> Perhaps, but even if your STBXWH hadn't cheated, you have to admit that it's kind of hard to rebuild a home after you've burned it down.


Again, the abuse started well before her infidelity.


----------



## Openminded

And the abuse was the reason those of us who posted on her other threads were opposed to R in the first place. It doesn't do any good to have a remorseful WS when the BS is an abuser.


----------



## GusPolinski

Openminded said:


> And the abuse was the reason those of us who posted on her other threads were opposed to R in the first place. It doesn't do any good to have a remorseful WS when the BS is an abuser.


I know, right? Think of all the (seemingly) good, honest, and heartbroken BS's out there that would KILL to have a WS as absolutely remorseful as rr has been throughout the past several months.

It really is a shame that all of that has been completely wasted on this assh*le.


----------



## morituri

lifeistooshort said:


> You clearly haven't read her whole backstory. She's made some mistakes but he's the one who burned it down. Please read up on her story.
> 
> Being cheated on sucks but it does not give anyone the right to abuse ww spouse or kids. If he couldn't deal with it then it was his right to divorce her, not to stick around and abuse all of them.


FYI *affairs are NOT mistakes, they ARE choices*.

Infidelity IS a form of abuse that nobody deserves to have it bestowed upon either. Two wrongs don't make a right.



> I assume when your wife cheated you did not spend the next number of years abusing her, you divorced her. That's what you do.


Yes and that's what the OP should have chosen after she became the victim of her abusive husband. I did not tolerate my XWW's abuse and neither should have the OP.

Infidelity doesn't solve anything, just destroys what remains of a marriage.


----------



## turnera

And abuse warps the mind of the abused so that 'normal' choices no longer seem normal.


----------



## turnera

rrhouse said:


> We have no groceries, my kid is hungry, and he's off at his little girlfriends house with her kid eating dinner.


I would text exactly that to his guy friend AND the guy's wife.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> And abuse warps the mind of the abused so that 'normal' choices no longer seem normal.


That's a cop out. Even during the gut wrenching pain of discovering the video of my XWW having sex with the OM, I did not go out and paid her in kind or worse. We are ALL responsible for our choices.


----------



## ConanHub

I agree morituri I have followed and advised her for a while. She fully owned her choices and even put up with abuse to try and appease him but he did not want to heal. He is a first class idiot and abuser. I never let anyone off the hook for cheating and rr has really tried hard to reconcile. If she had never cheated, I would advise her that the marriage is not worth hanging onto.

Since she did, I advised her about healing and what he was going through but the more I found out and the longer it went, the more I became convinced that he was always a bit of a loser and reconciliation would never work with him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## lifeistooshort

morituri said:


> FYI *affairs are NOT mistakes, they ARE choices*.
> 
> Infidelity IS a form of abuse that nobody deserves to have it bestowed upon either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and that's what the OP should have chosen after she became the victim of her abusive husband. I did not tolerate my XWW's abuse and neither should have the OP.
> 
> Infidelity doesn't solve anything, just destroys what remains of a marriage.


Eh, generally true but in this case they never really had a marriage. If you knew her story you'd know in his mind he had a business partner and free sex, and one he could abuse. Yeah she should've just left him but he deserves no sympathy whatsoever, in fact giving him any at all does a disservice to betrayed spouses who were decent people and continued to act like decent people. This guy made his own bed and will probably die in it thanks to his own choices.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Conan, believe it or not, of the two, I feel more for her than I do for him. But if the abuse was there before the affair, her bad choices could not have only put her life at risk but the life of her children as well. 

I've known spouses who became so unhinged that they either killed themselves or killed their unfaithful spouse. Thank God that was not the case here.

OP I truly hope that you do go ahead with the divorce and seek IC for yourself. You know that can't heal your X (that is his job) but you can heal yourself. God bless you and your children.


----------



## lifeistooshort

morituri said:


> Conan, believe it or not, of the two, I feel more for her than I do for him. But if the abuse was there before the affair, her bad choices could not have only put her life at risk but the life of her children as well.
> 
> I've known spouses who became so unhinged that they either killed themselves or killed their unfaithful spouse. Thank God that was not the case here.
> 
> OP I truly hope that you do go ahead with the divorce and seek IC for yourself. You know that can't heal your X (that is his job) but you can heal yourself. God bless you and your children.


Well that is certainly true. There was someone who used to post here that had a very abusive spouse and abruptly stopped posting. I still wonder if she's ok. 

I really wish op would get the heck out of there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

morituri said:


> That's a cop out. Even during the gut wrenching pain of discovering the video of my XWW having sex with the OM, I did not go out and paid her in kind or worse. We are ALL responsible for our choices.


Bullshyte. 

Until you have been subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person, you have NO IDEA what abuse does to a person, especially a woman, who is born and raised to see the best in people, to not raise a stink, to give second and twentieth chances, and to not be seen as demanding. 

You men have absolutely NO IDEA what living with an abusive man does to a woman's self-belief, self-esteem, self-trust, and faith.

Don't speak about which you are ignorant.

Should abused women seek out an affair partner? Of course not. 

Do abused women make excellent targets for men looking for women to cheat with? ABSOLUTELY, because they have, over a series of years or decades, been repeatedly, incessantly, non-stop been told they are stupid, unlovable, worthless, and that no man would EVER put up with them, let alone WANT THEM - except of course for the abuser, who is 'sacrificing' to just let the woman stay in his sphere. So when some man, ANY man, actually, who even speaks to her, let alone shows interest in her, abused women can barely KEEP from being drawn in to such men by that time.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> Bullshyte.
> 
> Until you have been subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person, you have NO IDEA what abuse does to a person, especially a woman, who is born and raised to see the best in people, to not raise a stink, to give second and twentieth chances, and to not be seen as demanding.
> 
> You men have absolutely NO IDEA what living with an abusive man does to a woman's self-belief, self-esteem, self-trust, and faith.
> 
> Don't speak about which you are ignorant.
> 
> Should abused women seek out an affair partner? Of course not.
> 
> Do abused women make excellent targets for men looking for women to cheat with? ABSOLUTELY, because they have, over a series of years or decades, been repeatedly, incessantly, non-stop been told they are stupid, unlovable, worthless, and that no man would EVER put up with them, let alone WANT THEM - except of course for the abuser, who is 'sacrificing' to just let the woman stay in his sphere. So when some man, ANY man, actually, who even speaks to her, let alone shows interest in her, abused women can barely KEEP from being drawn in to such men by that time.


Oh really? You don't think I have any idea of what it is to be abused "subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person"? 

My mother was an alcoholic child abuser who had a penchant for cursing, kicking and punching me and my little brother and sister. I can still vividly recall my siblings cowering and seeking my protection when she started drinking and went on the warpath trying to take out her frustrations on us. I took quite a few beatings and foul mouth words for my siblings. Thankfully one day the b!tch drank herself to death. But even after her death, her legacy lived on through depression and suicide attempts by my brother and sister.

*Unlike you and the OP, we were children.* And before you ask where our father was? He died in an accident when I was 7 years old.

So get off you high horse for there are others who had it just as much or far worse than you and the OP could ever imagine.

Here's your bull$h!t back at ya.


----------



## ConanHub

turnera said:


> Bullshyte.
> 
> Until you have been subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person, you have NO IDEA what abuse does to a person, especially a woman, who is born and raised to see the best in people, to not raise a stink, to give second and twentieth chances, and to not be seen as demanding.
> 
> You men have absolutely NO IDEA what living with an abusive man does to a woman's self-belief, self-esteem, self-trust, and faith.
> 
> Don't speak about which you are ignorant.
> 
> Should abused women seek out an affair partner? Of course not.
> 
> Do abused women make excellent targets for men looking for women to cheat with? ABSOLUTELY, because they have, over a series of years or decades, been repeatedly, incessantly, non-stop been told they are stupid, unlovable, worthless, and that no man would EVER put up with them, let alone WANT THEM - except of course for the abuser, who is 'sacrificing' to just let the woman stay in his sphere. So when some man, ANY man, actually, who even speaks to her, let alone shows interest in her, abused women can barely KEEP from being drawn in to such men by that time.


Careful about all us men. I know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## turnera

morituri said:


> Oh really? You don't think I have any idea of what it is to be abused "subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person"?
> 
> My mother was an alcoholic child abuser who had a penchant for cursing, kicking and punching me and my little brother and sister. I can still vividly recall my siblings cowering and seeking my protection when she started drinking and went on the warpath trying to take out her frustrations on us. I took quite a few beatings and foul mouth words for my siblings. Thankfully one day the b!tch drank herself to death. But even after her death, her legacy lived on through depression and suicide attempts by my brother and sister.
> 
> *Unlike you and the OP, we were children.* And before you ask where our father was? He died in an accident when I was 7 years old.
> 
> So get off you high horse for there are others who had it just as much or far worse than you and the OP could ever imagine.
> 
> Here's your bull$h!t back at ya.


Being abused as a child is COMPLETELY different from being abused by the person you CHOOSE to marry and protect you.


----------



## morituri

turnera said:


> Being abused as a child is COMPLETELY different from being abused by the person you CHOOSE to marry and protect you.


Children DON'T CHOOSE their parents. Children can't defend themselves from the people who brought them into this world. From the people, who above all others, ARE morally and legally RESPONSIBLE for loving and protecting them.


----------



## sapientia

I agree that affairs are choices, however, as someone who sees a LOT of young adults grasping to find their moral identities its also easy to see the effects of a dysfunctional upbringing on those identities and choices.

A person who grows up in a secure home with strong values is inherently more resistant to abuse than someone who didn't have this advantage.

Now, growing up in an abusive home can cause other strengths to emerge--they can make great entrepreneurs, for example--but there is a definite pattern in a lack of trust in their own judgement. Which can include ignoring red flags of a potential abuser.

Much harder to deprogram an adult who grew up in an abusive environment than an adult who happens to make a poor choice in spouse but otherwise comes from a loving, healthy family. At minimum, the latter will typically have a strong family base of support to help them.


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## rrhouse

morituri said:


> FYI *affairs are NOT mistakes, they ARE choices*.
> 
> Infidelity IS a form of abuse that nobody deserves to have it bestowed upon either. Two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and that's what the OP should have chosen after she became the victim of her abusive husband. I did not tolerate my XWW's abuse and neither should have the OP.
> 
> Infidelity doesn't solve anything, just destroys what remains of a marriage.


You're right, and I've said it before. I was very unhappy in my marriage, and I made a poor *decision* to cheat. By doing that, I lost my dignity and any chance I ever had of my husband treating me the way I longed for him to. 

By cheating, I killed the nice guy I was looking for. I could have just gone to my mom's for a week and scared some sense into him, then maybe he would have made some positive changes. Now I will never get the marriage I wanted.

I have been holding out on hope that maybe if I work realllly hard he might forgive me and _then_ we can work on finding happiness again, but clearly that didn't work. Cheating was abusive, my STBX being a manipulative, mean drunk is abusive. We're both so mean to eachother and it needs to just stop.


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## turnera

morituri said:


> Children DON'T CHOOSE their parents. Children can't defend themselves from the people who brought them into this world. From the people, who above all others, ARE morally and legally RESPONSIBLE for loving and protecting them.


I'm not going to argue something with you that you are obviously ignorant about. I would only ask you at LEAST stop pretending to speak for abused women. It's rude, harmful, and disrespectful.


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## morituri

I really do wish you and your children all the best. Take care and God bless.


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## morituri

turnera said:


> I'm not going to argue something with you that you are obviously ignorant about. I would only ask you at LEAST stop pretending to speak for abused women. It's rude, harmful, and disrespectful.


I'm not pretending to speak for abused women and even rrrhouse, an abused woman, agreed with my reply that set you off.

I replied because of your own words in the reply.



turnera said:


> Until you have been subjugated by a stronger, manipulative, hateful person, you have NO IDEA what abuse does to a person


So yes I DO know what abuse is firsthand.


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## rrhouse

Honestly, I was abused physically as a child, mentally as a teenager, and now again as an adult. I am now extremely over-invested in what people think of me. I would do just about anything to please people I care about, and tend to hold myself responsible for other people's actions. I fear rejection and worry about just about everything. 

I guess guys who want sex catch on to that pretty quick. I do feel like I was taken advantage of when I cheated, but it was also my fault. I had to consent to it. It breaks my heart that I can't take it back. I see both sides of your arguments, but ultimately I should have just left to begin with. Then again if I did that I wouldn't have my second beautiful baby.


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## sapientia

rrhouse - where do things stand now for you? What is your primary issue now? Apologies, but I haven't had time to go through 10 pages of your thread.


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## rrhouse

All of this is so overwhelming. He told me that he was just flirting with her, and went to the house to hang out with his guy friend. He said he was flirting with her to bait her to give him compliments because I won't sleep with him and it's making him feel down. 

Then he said he I didn't need to snoop anymore because he asked her to back off, because she was acting clingy.. even though they "didn't do anything". Naturally I snooped to see why she would need to back off, if they were just friends it shouldn't be an issue right? 

Well, he changed all of his passwords and when I asked him about it he said HE doesn't trust ME anymore because of what I did last night. When I asked how am I supposed to believe he asked her to back off right before he locked up all of his accounts he said "It's just one of those things you're going to have to trust" 

How can this possibly all be turned around to me? He was the one flirting with a girl all night and then sleeping at her house!! What the heck?! I was even starting to feel bad like maybe if I was affectionate or kinder then he would flirt with me. This ENTIRE ordeal started with me feeling dissatisfied from a lack of affection. Here he is passing it around to ignorant, trashy girls with STD's. (he told me she has them)

If a woman's love language is affection, and her husband is being affectionate to another woman, that is cheating. I have been BEGGING him for affection for years. 

I slept with another man, and sex is my husband's love language. For me, it wasn't even about the sex, it was about the guy being nice to me. I don't know where I'm going with this except it seems like we both gave what we want most from eachother to other people. How f***ed up is that?


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## sapientia

I'm sorry for your distress, rrhouse. When your emotions go up, thinking goes down. Breathe. 

Unfortunately I don't have enough background to parse your last. Hopefully someone else who has been following your story will post soon.

In the meantime, just breathe.


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## rrhouse

Long story short- my husband and I have been attempting reconciliation after my infidelity for about a year. He has been a HUGE jerk this entire time and last night I found him texting a mutual friend of ours and then going to her house. We just had a baby 2 months ago- he wasn't there for me at all through the entire pregnancy and now this. I am filing for divorce tomorrow because I'm too overwhelmed to deal with it anymore. It's not improving, it just keeps getting worse.


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## turnera

rrhouse said:


> How can this possibly all be turned around to me?


Because he's abusive and that's what abusers DO - turn EVERYTHING around on you and ALWAYS make everything your fault.

Surely you know that by now. You should be able to not only recognize it, but expect it.


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## turnera

rrhouse said:


> Long story short- my husband and I have been attempting reconciliation after my infidelity for about a year. He has been a HUGE jerk this entire time and last night I found him texting a mutual friend of ours and then going to her house. We just had a baby 2 months ago- he wasn't there for me at all through the entire pregnancy and now this. I am filing for divorce tomorrow because I'm too overwhelmed to deal with it anymore. It's not improving, it just keeps getting worse.


I'm not liking it because things are bad, but because you are getting out. Maybe you two can date later, after the divorce, and he has a REASON to get help. With you there, he has no reason to.


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## rrhouse

Even though I know it's the right thing to do, I still feel devastated. I keep hoping he'll come home from work and start crying and we both apologize for everything and work it out. Is that normal?


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## turnera

That's the MOST common reaction for an abuse victim. Because the abuser shows her SOME goodness, enough for her to keep thinking he'll eventually bring the goodness back and BE that good person.

And then eventually you realize it won't happen. Hopefully. And you give up that dream and leave him. And get some good therapy to start loving yourself again, because that's what you've been losing being with him. And then, go out and meet a good man. He's out there.


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## lifeistooshort

turnera said:


> That's the MOST common reaction for an abuse victim. Because the abuser shows her SOME goodness, enough for her to keep thinking he'll eventually bring the goodness back and BE that good person.
> 
> And then eventually you realize it won't happen. Hopefully. And you give up that dream and leave him. And get some good therapy to start loving yourself again, because that's what you've been losing being with him. And then, go out and meet a good man. He's out there.


This. Part of the reason it's so hard to leave an abuser is because when you try they'll often throw out just enough sweetness to reel you back in. You've seen this over and over, remember what happened last time you left? He cried that he was lonely and you dropped everything to run back. The second you got back he told you how pathetic you were, you didn't even get sweetness for 5 minutes. What more do you need to accept he's not going to change? And any change he could have will not happen with you around. Please get some counselling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IwasBad_ButNowImGood

I am not saying this about this particular couple... but I am wondering. Everyone always seems to think an abuser cannot change. Surely there MUST be some who truly repent and change? And should we not encourage that? Say the abuser goes on meds, see a shrink and goes four months or more being 90% nice. Isn't it possible that the four months may become four years, then forty years? Only if that person really really wants it and works on it, of course.


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## GusPolinski

IwasBad_ButNowImGood said:


> I am not saying this about this particular couple... but I am wondering. Everyone always seems to think an abuser cannot change. Surely there MUST be some who truly repent and change? And should we not encourage that? Say the abuser goes on meds, see a shrink and goes four months or more being 90% nice. Isn't it possible that the four months may become four years, then forty years? Only if that person really really wants it and works on it, of course.


That's a legitimate perspective. But why should OP stick around and put up w/ this guy's alcohol-fueled rage baby bullsh*t on the mere hope that he _might_ (a) wake the f*ck up, (b) man the f*ck up, and (c) get some f*cking help?


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## ConanHub

I think some abusers can, some obviously can't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

One thing I DO know for sure is that an abuser will never just wake up one morning and say "I'm wrong, I don't like this, today I turn over a new leaf."

He MAY lose everything after hurting everyone who matters, and then wake up alone and say 'wow, this sucks, how do I make things better for me?' Because he won't suddenly care about other people, still only himself.

THEN, if he listens to advice people have given him, he MAY decide to go ahead and get help. And then take years of therapy to learn to be different.

But most abusers never get to that point. And never until they've lost everything. So people who STAY with an abuser are guaranteeing the abuser will not change.


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## rrhouse

I know I don't like being painted a cheater forever with the phrase "once a cheater, always a cheater." People can change. I don't know if he'll change. If he's nice to his next love interest I'll feel like I got ripped off.


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## sapientia

rrhouse - I don't mean to sound cold about this -- I do feel sorry for your situation, especially with a baby -- but it seems to me this is a case of irreconcilable differences. 

He clearly can't or won't forgive you for your cheating.. and he's got issues of his own. Don't you think in this case, and especially your child, it's better to put a bullet in your zombie marriage and find new happiness elsewhere? Why put your child in this miserable environment?


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## Openminded

S, she actually has two daughters (the baby is the result of trying to R at a time when things were very unstable between them). He's always had problems coming to terms with her cheating so this is no surprise.


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## sapientia

rrHouse - So you allowed yourself to get pregnant in the hopes it would improve your situation? Oh your poor children.


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## GusPolinski

sapientia said:


> rrHouse - So you allowed yourself to get pregnant in the hopes it would improve your situation? Oh your poor children.


Ehhh... obviously rr can speak for herself, but I don't believe that's _quite_ what happened.


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## rrhouse

That's a very judgmental statement to make, sapientia. I didn't technically "allow" myself to get pregnant in hopes of R. It just happened, neither by choice nor accident. I chose to STAY pregnant when my husband aggressively tried to bully me into getting an abortion. My "poor children" are going to be just fine. I appreciate your concern.


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## Openminded

It was certainly risky to not try to prevent a pregnancy while you were in a very shaky R and during a time when he was not sure he could forgive you. IIRC, he doesn't feel the same about this baby (unless he's changed) as he does about your older daughter.


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## sapientia

Active birth control and post-pregnancy options make this an adult choice. I'm not being judgemental, just factual. The only ones who don't have a choice in all this are the children. I do sincerely wish your children well, rrHouse.

_“When you choose an action, you choose the consequences of that action. When you desire a consequence you had damned well better take the action that would create it.”_


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## rrhouse

I ended up shredding the papers I originally intended to file. He wrote all over them and I just couldn't bring myself to fill them out again. H keeps asking me when I'm going to file, because he won't do it himself, even though he is the one that claims he is absolutely sure he wants a divorce. I'm still having a very difficult time giving up my hopes to reconcile and have a happy family. He basically told me that if I don't file he's just going to stop coming home and start doing "whatever he wants, without getting caught. I'm using this time to work out some kind of daycare/job arrangement and figure out where to take my kids. I hate that it's come to such a bitter end, but I can't force him to change. I can only focus on myself and my kids. 

As awful as we have both treated each other, I will always love him. He is the father of my children and once was an amazing spouse. If it weren't for my kids,I'd probably let him run me into the ground in an attempt to reconcile. However, this is so unhealthy for the babies and I can't let them see this as an example of marriage any more. It's time to give up the dream. 

As for the comments about me getting pregnant: at the time, reconciliation was looking like a very possible option. There was about a three month period where he and I were doing incredibly well. It was a mistake to be careless with birth control, but I don't regret it. I still have a beautiful child and we will be okay.


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## turnera

You say you're doing this for your kids. If that's so, you OWE it to them to file the paperwork so that he will be legally required to provide child support to help them. Do you have any idea how many fathers DO NOT give child support? It's incredibly hard and expensive to THEN track them down and make it happen. Take care of it now, while he's on board. For your kids.


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## MachoMcCoy

IwasBad_ButNowImGood said:


> Everyone always seems to think an abuser cannot change. Surely there MUST be some who truly repent and change?


As soon as I realized I had lost my wife for good, I changed IMMEDIATELY. My DNA changed. It was the easiest (and hardest) thing I had ever done in my life. NO WAY was I going to continue to be the type of person who would treat someone I love so badly. She was my life and now she's gone. 

I am a broken, empty shell of a man these days. My marriage is a sham. But I'm NOT an abuser any more and never will be again. 5 years now.

Am I cured? No. I still have a temper. But I do NOT get as manic as I used to. I do NOT direct it at my wife and kids. And it happens VERY infrequently. And I work to control it most of the time.


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## rrhouse

He went out after work Friday and came home wasted at midnight. Passed out on the floor, woke up in the morning and went golfing. He then became angry when he found out my mother has our oldest child for the night and refused to help with the baby so I could spend time with my friends today or even go to the store. Apparently I'm not allowed to rely on him to be a dad until we're divorced. He called me a retard, a *****, a child, a mooch, told me he hates me, threatened to throw my belongings outside, and told me to leave. He told me he "loves" his children, but won't come home to see them as long as I'm here. He then pouted face down on our bed for about an hour before heading back out. He isn't answering texts or coming home. 

I am DONE. Packing my things and going to my grandmother's house, filing for child support immediately. I don't trust him alone with our children so I will look into supervised visitation, if anything. 

How dare he call me a child, and then tell me I'm retarded because I don't understand how my drinking ruined the marriage. My drinking led to me making poor decisions over a year ago. Hence why I got counseling and QUIT. Unbelievable.


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## turnera

I'm so glad you're finally leaving.


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## bandit.45

Time to,stick a fork in the marriage before your hatred of each other becomes toxic to the kids.


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## cdbaker

Agreed, you've GOT to file first. The first filer always has a huge advantage as they get to set all of the terms first that will last throughout the divorce proceedings, which can take a long time. For instance, he could make up some things to give himself 100% residential custody and that temporary order could potentially stand as-is for months before you could get into court to change anything. You've got to file asap.

Secondly, while it does seem like you are pretty determined that actually getting the divorce is the right answer right now, realize that just because you file for divorce doesn't mean you have to actually get the divorce. You mentioned earlier how you still harbor some hope in the back of your mind and that has left you hesitant to file. Just remember that the process usually takes many months, if not a year or more, and in that time a lot can change. For him, realizing that yes you're actually going through with it could potentially wake him up to realizing that yes, this is really very real. You might be able to agree to some kind of counseling (be it for the marriage, or for co-parenting).

In any case, have you filed yet??


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## rrhouse

I haven't filed yet. I filed for child support. He tried to get me to stay the night tomorrow through Sunday because I'll be driving back and forth about an hour each way to take our daughter to her Vacation Bible School that I don't want to mess up for her. 

I planned on using this time to pack and maybe staying the night Friday, but I don't feel comfortable around him. He then told me I NEED to come over and stay all weekend so the girls can spend time in their home for the last time and so we can "finalize things". Then he told me he has not one, but two girls waiting on his divorce so they can date. I know I shouldn't care but this is eating away at me and I am so hurt. He told me they feel sorry for me and they "want him " because they know he'll spoil them and treat them right like he used to do for me. How cruel is that? 

I told him he is sick and manipulative and I will not give him a divorce so he can bang some girl he's been flirting with. He should focus on his kids and his marriage. He told me fine, then come home and be "the wife I want you to be", to which I responded what about the husband I want? He feels like I have no room to bargain and I feel like I'm just going to stay away from him because he is acting like a disgusting pig. 

That in itself is cheating, but apparently he sees it as child's play compared to what I did. He is seriously messed up in the head and I feel so sorry for those girls. They're in for a surprise when he pees in their beds and abuses them. Unless they're just that hungry for his paycheck.


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## bandit.45

He is playing the victim card to the hilt. He is empowered because he sees himself as the victim and you as the bad guy. Usually, when a person gets to this point, there is no talking sense to them. 

Time to move down the road. Your relationship is dead. I know it hurts but it won't hurt as much as staying around and letting him humiliate you. Your husband has deep issues that he needs to address, on top of being a boozer. Get out now.


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## cdbaker

To a degree, I'm going to have to side with bandit. He is playing the victim card, and he is lying through his teeth trying to make you feel even more guilty/shame than you already do. As I mentioned back in January, all of this has put you in a difficult place because he obviously IS a victim here as well, but enough time has passed and enough effort has been made that he has to either decide to forgive and reconcile or walk away completely. I believe either decision is easily justifiable.

Trying to stick around and just repeatedly bring you down emotionally or worse for your past sins however is completely unacceptable. Being angry and hateful for a little while in the immediate aftermath is understandable, but he's had enough time to grieve, you've had enough time to show him that you accept responsibility for your failures and he should have made his decision on how he will proceed long before now.

However, here is the reality for you now: He will come to accept that his time for mistreating his wife is over. That means that you will either divorce and he won't have you around to guilt/shame and bully anymore, or you'll do something that gives him a major wake-up call and he'll reconsider his priorities. (either changing his behavior in the process, or agreeing on divorce) Those are pretty much the only two potential results here. So that is where bandit and I might disagree. Your relationship is dead, if something doesn't change quickly.

I think it's entirely possible (though maybe not likely at this point) that your husband has just been so filled with anger and humiliation, as well as a misguided view that your guilt/shame will keep you from leaving, that he doesn't really believe that you will really file for divorce. I think if he wanted divorce, he would have been smart enough to file by now. I believe the only chance your marriage has is to file for divorce and see if that gives him the wake-up call that he might need in order to make clear to him that you're not going to put up with this mistreatment anymore and that you are absolutely willing to end the marriage over it. I've certainly seen that work more than a few times.

The reality is, as the cheater, this isn't supposed to be easy for you. It's supposed to suck, a lot, and for a while, because healing and rebuilding trust takes time and is very emotionally painful for all parties. However, your husband is crossing lines that no man is entitled to cross, including victims of adultery. If he can't reach a point of healing and forgiveness in a fair amount of time, then you should not feel as though your sin requires that you continue to subjugate yourself to this marriage any longer.


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## lifeistooshort

Who cares what he tells you about who wants him? His goal is to drink and hurt you so he'll say pretty much anything to get to you. And if some stupid bimbo really does want his drunk, pathetic arse then feel sorry for her. 

The wife he needs you to be is the only that lays on the floor and does nothing but cater to him while taking his abuse.

And by refusing to file while making a stink about some bimbo you continue to give him power. Tell him you don't give a fvck who's waiting for him because you know what she's getting. 

Heck, if you stay the night he'll probably simultaneously pester you for sex and then tell you how pathetic you are. I honestly have no idea why you continue to try to hold on here, you've created a lot of this monster by sticking around and taking it. You might have had a better shot at saving this if you'd stayed gone the last time you left and put conditions on your return. Instead you ran back, showed him you were a doormat, and allowed him to continue to indulge his victim status and drinking.

Let some other woman have him. If she even exists she's getting a pos. And you know he's never treated you all that well, you've always had a business arrangement that included sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good grief. Just divorce him already. You two HAVE no marriage.

Move out, file for divorce, let him see you living a decent life, let him try to live on, and MAYBE down the road after lots of therapy for both of you, you might have something to rekindle.

But that will NEVER HAPPEN with you two the way you are now. So what if he's got girls lined up? You could have guys lined up just as easily. All that tells me is that HE isn't wasting any valuable time on figuring out what's wrong with him and will only make two MORE women miserable. At least you're on a place like this trying to learn what you did wrong and how to fix it.

Give yourself a break and get that divorce started.


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## turnera

lifeistooshort said:


> And by refusing to file while making a stink about some bimbo you continue to give him power. Tell him you don't give a fvck who's waiting for him because you know what she's getting.


Precisely.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> ...he told me he has not one, but two girls waiting on his divorce so they can date. I know I shouldn't care but this is eating away at me and I am so hurt. He told me they feel sorry for me and they "want him " because they know he'll spoil them and treat them right like he used to do for me. How cruel is that?


LOL... you should've asked him to explain precisely how he'll have _any_ money left over to "spoil" anyone once his paycheck has been ravaged by both court-mandated child support payments *AND* his bar tab.


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## rrhouse

Now there are three girls. I moved out last Sunday, and have found a lawyer. He went out of town this weekend with his best friend and the new girl, and their kids. 

I was supposed to come pack all weekend and he was supposed to visit the kids, but he became abusive so I took them and left. He told me he should have killed me when he found out I cheated. He could have plead temporary insanity and would be living happily ever after with his older daughter and no baby. 

I don't know why I still have feelings for him, but I am absolutely heartbroken and don't want to get the divorce, but I will. For my kids and for me. 

Another low blow is the fact that he said he found a rehabilitation center he is going to attend *after* the divorce, because he's not getting sober for me. It's only for him and his new life without me. I guess his family wasn't good enough.


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## turnera

Abuse aside, some men simply can't handle their wife cheating, rr. You just need to accept that.

You'll be happier without him. I promise. Assuming you stay in IC.


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## rrhouse

He has been cheating on me emotionally for about a month now. Maybe physically. Is that how he handles his wife cheating after a year and a half?


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## turnera

Abusers don't consider it cheating. It's just what they're allowed to do. If he wasn't abusive before you cheated, then he sees it as what he is now ALLOWED directly BECAUSE of what you did.

So, yeah, that's what some men do when their wife cheats. Helps them get their self esteem back.


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## rrhouse

It just hurts. I've never been treated so cruelly by anyone in my entire life, and I've been beat physically, abandoned, etc. This takes the cake. 

I have to let go. I won't even hold onto hope that he'll come around in a year, two years, whatever. I'm spending so much time worrying about him and not enough building back my own life. I'm calling the counselor Monday to figure things out. I haven't seen her since the baby was born.


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## lifeistooshort

Yes, go back to counseling. It strikes me that you're really desperate for approval, like a little kid who keeps begging mom to love her. Except you're desperate for hb to love you. Guy tells you he wishes you were dead and you're still desperate for him to love you, maybe to prove you're lovable. 

The thing is that your seem to forget that he's never been a good husband, but it probably looks better in hindsight because he's been so over the top nasty since the other men. And if he does go to rehab? Well good, maybe your daughters won't grow up with a pathetic drunk for a father. But he can't have any chance to heal with you, your relationship is too toxic. 

It's highly unlikely that other women will get this great guy that you wanted, remember what he was like. But if one does? Well maybe she's a better match. You've tried to force what can't be forced. 


And abuse aside, some people simply can't get past affairs and he may be one of them. As turnera rightly pointed out.

You are lovable, just not by him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You shouldn't have stopped seeing her. You need it. For so many reasons.


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## rrhouse

The weekend he was supposed to see his kids but forced me to leave by being abusive, he ended up taking the same girl he visited a few weeks back, and her baby to the beach. Overnight. In a motel. They shared a bed but he says they just got drunk and passed out fully clothed after talking all night. 

He talks to her every day and they supposedly whine about their lives and how awful they are. He told me he has no ability to feel or love anymore, and he's not afraid to die. He said he's not going to rehab. He just wants to "enjoy the rest of his life" and he's happy he has a good insurance plan for his kids. One of which he still doesn't accept. I can't deal with all of this. 

I don't know what his fascination is with this girl. He told me she's emotionally unstable and clearly she's not a good influence. I can't make her go away though. 

I'm meeting him today to discuss the divorce. I'm absolutely heartbroken, but it's what he wants and what I NEED. I have to let him go, he is toxic. I can't believe he would leave his family for her like that. I guess that's how he felt about me when I strayed.


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## turnera

You have such a great life ahead of you after divorce (as long as you keep learning). Don't waste time thinking of what he's doing. Don't let him occupy space in your head. He doesn't deserve it. You deserve better.


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## Openminded

You wonder what the fascination with the OW is? She's like him. Or maybe even worse than he is. He finds that very appealing. 

Alcohol is more important to him than his family. You need to plan your life (and your children's lives) as though he will not be part of it financially or otherwise. Because that could very well be the case.


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## cdbaker

rrhouse, some of your comments still confuse the heck out of me. You seem very concerned about this other woman, you are spending time trying to figure out his fascination with this woman, you are disappointed that you can't make her go away, etc.

Here's the deal: She's new, she is willing to ignore his enormously clear faults, she's willing to have sex with him and pander to his crazy perception of himself, and she is demanding virtually no commitment or resources of his that he can't readily withdraw at a moment's notice. Certainly I'm guessing that she's not the smartest cookie either. In a word, she is "*easy*." She latched on to him quickly because she's in need of a man whom she wants to believe can take care of her some day if only she meets his needs first. After all, he is presenting himself to her as this great and wonderful guy, a good father, a provider, etc., who is married to a terrible woman. IF that were all true, then it makes sense why she might find him a good "future catch" that she wants to get in on the ground floor with. Any faults of his now could be attributed to the messy divorce and his intense love of you which could maybe someday be transferred to her, is her hope.

So don't worry about comparing yourself to her. She can't compete with you, and you can't compete with her. They are two completely different playing fields. This is just how some people operate when their relationship is crumbling. They seek out validation from someone else quickly.

So just do your best to focus on YOU and your kids. Don't think about him as best as you can help it. Don't respond to him unless it relates to the divorce or your kids. Certainly don't play his little mind games with him. Let him see that you don't need him, and his antics don't effect you. If there is any hope for him, this is the only way he'll have a chance. If there isn't any hope for him, you'll still be on the best path for future happiness. It's win-win.


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## rrhouse

It took me a couple of weeks but I am over OW and ready to move on. H has decided he wants his family back, and when I refused, he assumed I am "cheating" again. 

He won't visit his kids unless I take them there and stay with them the whole time. Otherwise I am using him to go out, according to him. I am currently sitting at home nursing my baby and he has sent me a slew of messages saying he is going to track me down at whatever bar I'm at and snap a pic of me. He believes he can show this picture to his lawyer and have the children taken from my mother (she usually babysits) and file that I abandoned my children. 

He also has been stalking my Facebook and telling me that if I block any of my posts from his view, he will "reveal me as the true ***** I am". He has threatened to change the locks on the house I left to come live with family, and throw my belongings on the curb. He refused to see his girls today unless I had sex with him. I wanted to go to a friends going away party. 

Anyway, the point of all of this complaining is that I am wondering if this is grounds for a restraining order? He said if he finds me with another man he will murder both of us. He has also stated that he wishes he would have killed me when he found out about my infidelity. He has hit me more than once, I just brushed it off because we were drunk and I felt like I deserved it. Now I'm considering using that to get a protective order and expedite the divorce. Is that possible? I'm tired of him trying to control me using fear and threats.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> It took me a couple of weeks but I am over OW and ready to move on. H has decided he wants his family back, and when I refused, he assumed I am "cheating" again.
> 
> He won't visit his kids unless I take them there and stay with them the whole time. Otherwise I am using him to go out, according to him. I am currently sitting at home nursing my baby and he has sent me a slew of messages saying he is going to track me down at whatever bar I'm at and snap a pic of me. He believes he can show this picture to his lawyer and have the children taken from my mother (she usually babysits) and file that I abandoned my children.
> 
> He also has been stalking my Facebook and telling me that if I block any of my posts from his view, he will "reveal me as the true ***** I am". He has threatened to change the locks on the house I left to come live with family, and throw my belongings on the curb. He refused to see his girls today unless I had sex with him. I wanted to go to a friends going away party.
> 
> Anyway, the point of all of this complaining is that I am wondering if this is grounds for a restraining order? He said if he finds me with another man he will murder both of us. He has also stated that he wishes he would have killed me when he found out about my infidelity. He has hit me more than once, I just brushed it off because we were drunk and I felt like I deserved it. Now I'm considering using that to get a protective order and expedite the divorce. Is that possible? I'm tired of him trying to control me using fear and threats.


How recently did he say these things? And do you have any of it in texts, e-mails, FB messages, etc?

As for your FB, just out yourself as whatever and then block him.

Holy crap this guy is a psycho.


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## rrhouse

This is all over the past few days. His mom contacted me saying he spoke with her about hitting rock bottom and wanting to check into a rehab center. His little girlfriend posted several depressing posts on Facebook, so I'm assuming he stopped talking to her. He tried to contact me about getting his family back and I said no. He drank so much that he fell down, passed out in the kitchen, and woke up with bruises and missed work. 

When I told his mom I was over it, she also tried to guilt trip me and blame his abuse on me. I have everything on Facebook, texts, & audio recording. They both turned on me when I said I wasn't interested in going back to an abusive relationship.


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## GusPolinski

rrhouse said:


> This is all over the past few days. His mom contacted me saying he spoke with her about hitting rock bottom and wanting to check into a rehab center. His little girlfriend posted several depressing posts on Facebook, so I'm assuming he stopped talking to her. He tried to contact me about getting his family back and I said no. He drank so much that he fell down, passed out in the kitchen, and woke up with bruises and missed work.
> 
> When I told his mom I was over it, she also tried to guilt trip me and blame his abuse on me. I have everything on Facebook, texts, & audio recording. They both turned on me when I said I wasn't interested in going back to an abusive relationship.


Take screenshots of EVERYTHING on Facebook, back up your phone, back up any recordings that you have, and stash all of it somewhere in the Cloud.

Google Drive and Dropbox accounts are free. Make sure that you UPLOAD instead of synching, as synching will cause anything placed in the Cloud to be deleted should it be deleted from your local computer.

After that, go to the cops and attempt to get a restraining order.


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## rrhouse

I also planned on printing out a calendar from the past 6-12 months and documenting nights he was abusive, at a bar, slept with OW, etc


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## ConanHub

You have more than enough right now.
Follow the Polinski's advice and get that RO now!

Do you have friends or family that could be near you for a while?

This bastard is unhinged!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

ConanHub said:


> *You have more than enough right now.*
> Follow the Polinski's advice and get that RO now!
> 
> Do you have friends or family that could be near you for a while?
> 
> This bastard is unhinged!


Agreed. Save all that for the divorce. Ensuring your immediate safety -- in as timely a manner as possible -- is of greater concern.


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## rrhouse

I live about 70 miles away from him with my mother and grandmother. Our neighbor is protective and has guns.

I am going out tomorrow (I need a dang break!) and he has no idea. I worked at the place I'm going for 5+ years and everyone there is protective of me. I'm also not driving, for anyone worried about that. 

About 1.5 months ago I got pulled over after a night out. The cop let my husband come get me. I will never live that down. However, now I don't drive when I go out. I don't go out often.


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## rrhouse

I just felt the need to defend myself for going out. I did quit drinking during reconciliation. That didn't work out, no need to quit completely. I feel that I am responsible if I have a ride and a trustworthy babysitter.


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## turnera

No need to quit completely?

SMH

You're drinking enough to get flagged by a cop.

Grow up.


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## ConanHub

BTW. Stay away from relationships for a while.

Don't let another man in even for a ons.

It will bite you.

Take time and get healthy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Of course he wants his family back. In a dysfunctional way it fills his needs; he has a wife who serves as convenient sex and an emotional punching bag. He doesn't know how to cope without you to take everything out on. And make no mistake, this isn't even about you and the other men.....it's much bigger than that. You are the punching bag for all of his anger and every women that's ever in his mind done him wrong. without you he doesn't know how to handle his rage. The OW probably can't server as a punching bag. In his mind it's your job to hang on the cross, except when he wants sex of course. So if that's the life you want for you and your daughters knock yourself out, and think about how you intend to explain this to your daughters as they grow up.

So he wants the family which consists of a wife he can't stand and a daughter he doesn't want so he can have his punching bag. It allows him to avoid dealing with his issues. Even now the kids have no use to him except to bull you. And his mother has probably always made excuses for him, that's part of the reason he is the way he is.

On top of everything, you're not even getting sweetness while he's trying to get you back. He's still abusing you while trying to get you back, and my gut tells me you're actually thinking about taking him back. I'd suspect he's so used to the dynamic of him bullying and abusing and you rolling over and taking it that it will escalate like a bratty toddler tantrum until either he snaps and does something really violent or he realizes you're gone. The question is whether you'll fold before then.

Repeat after me: "HE CAN'T HAVE A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH ME".

Look, I know you don't want to hear it but it really was irresponsible to bring another baby into this. I get that once we have our kids we never regret them, but you really didn't know where this was going and this guy has always been abusive. It's just gotten over the top since the other men. So now that you have her the least you can do is not subject her to a life with an abusive bully who doesn't want her so you can prove you're lovable. These kids are going to resent the hvll out of you if you don't cut this guy off.

I might even suggest that you tell him that you agree not to date for at least 6 months and if in that time he works on getting himself clean and sober you'll revisit reconciliation. Though I doubt it will do much good since he's always been abusive, but you can try if you want. You probably don't need to be dating for a while anyway. 

And call the cops and get a restraining order on him right now. You might actually be doing him a favor to completely cut him off. And next time he tries to blackmail you tell him to knock himself out, and if he wants to play dirty that's you'll play. He won't know what to do if you actually stand up for yourself.


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## rrhouse

turnera said:


> No need to quit completely?
> 
> SMH
> 
> You're drinking enough to get flagged by a cop.
> 
> Grow up.



I drank enough to get flagged by a cop- once. It was scary. When I go out now I have a DD, even if I only have a couple drinks. I'm an adult and can make adult decisions just like the rest of us.


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## rrhouse

I made it very clear to him that I won't and can't go back. I obviously wasn't happy a year and a half ago and I'm not happy now. Who wants to be with somebody that hates them "for the sake of the kids"? Not me. He never respected me to begin with and never will. 

He even told me that when he married me he want happy with who I was, he just figured he could change me. 




lifeistooshort said:


> Of course he wants his family back. In a dysfunctional way it fills his needs; he has a wife who serves as convenient sex and an emotional punching bag. He doesn't know how to cope without you to take everything out on. And make no mistake, this isn't even about you and the other men.....it's much bigger than that. You are the punching bag for all of his anger and every women that's ever in his mind done him wrong. without you he doesn't know how to handle his rage. The OW probably can't server as a punching bag. In his mind it's your job to hang on the cross, except when he wants sex of course. So if that's the life you want for you and your daughters knock yourself out, and think about how you intend to explain this to your daughters as they grow up.
> 
> So he wants the family which consists of a wife he can't stand and a daughter he doesn't want so he can have his punching bag. It allows him to avoid dealing with his issues. Even now the kids have no use to him except to bull you. And his mother has probably always made excuses for him, that's part of the reason he is the way he is.
> 
> On top of everything, you're not even getting sweetness while he's trying to get you back. He's still abusing you while trying to get you back, and my gut tells me you're actually thinking about taking him back. I'd suspect he's so used to the dynamic of him bullying and abusing and you rolling over and taking it that it will escalate like a bratty toddler tantrum until either he snaps and does something really violent or he realizes you're gone. The question is whether you'll fold before then.
> 
> Repeat after me: "HE CAN'T HAVE A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH ME".
> 
> Look, I know you don't want to hear it but it really was irresponsible to bring another baby into this. I get that once we have our kids we never regret them, but you really didn't know where this was going and this guy has always been abusive. It's just gotten over the top since the other men. So now that you have her the least you can do is not subject her to a life with an abusive bully who doesn't want her so you can prove you're lovable. These kids are going to resent the hvll out of you if you don't cut this guy off.
> 
> I might even suggest that you tell him that you agree not to date for at least 6 months and if in that time he works on getting himself clean and sober you'll revisit reconciliation. Though I doubt it will do much good since he's always been abusive, but you can try if you want. You probably don't need to be dating for a while anyway.
> 
> And call the cops and get a restraining order on him right now. You might actually be doing him a favor to completely cut him off. And next time he tries to blackmail you tell him to knock himself out, and if he wants to play dirty that's you'll play. He won't know what to do if you actually stand up for yourself.


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## lifeistooshort

rrhouse said:


> I made it very clear to him that I won't and can't go back. I obviously wasn't happy a year and a half ago and I'm not happy now. Who wants to be with somebody that hates them "for the sake of the kids"? Not me. He never respected me to begin with and never will.
> 
> He even told me that when he married me he want happy with who I was, he just figured he could change me.


I hope so, for all your sakes. And fyi, I understand how much it sucks when your hb not only doesn't love you but doesn't even like you. My ex couldn't stand me, he thought I was a loud mouth Jew b!tch that didn't know my place as a woman. Our backgrounds are very different 

It doesn't make you unlovable or a lesser person, it makes you a poor match. 

You can do better, let this guy go.

And there is no for the sake of the kids here. He doesn't want one of them and will likely use the other one to control and abuse you. They get nothing out of this. 

He's going to have to face his own demons. I'm remarried now to a guy who adores me, and it's such a breath of fresh air. When you find that you'll kick your own arse for wasting so much of your life on this guy. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

lifeistooshort said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I made it very clear to him that I won't and can't go back. I obviously wasn't happy a year and a half ago and I'm not happy now. Who wants to be with somebody that hates them "for the sake of the kids"? Not me. He never respected me to begin with and never will.
> 
> He even told me that when he married me he want happy with who I was, he just figured he could change me.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope so, for all your sakes. And fyi, I understand how much it sucks when your hb not only doesn't love you but doesn't even like you. My ex couldn't stand me, he thought I was a loud mouth Jew b!tch that didn't know my place as a woman. Our backgrounds are very different
> 
> It doesn't make you unlovable or a lesser person, it makes you a poor match.
> 
> You can do better, let this guy go.
> 
> And there is no for the sake of the kids here. He doesn't want one of them and will likely use the other one to control and abuse you. They get nothing out of this.
> 
> He's going to have to face his own demons. I'm remarried now to a guy who adores me, and it's such a breath of fresh air. When you find that you'll kick your own arse for wasting so much of your life on this guy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...


Ah, yes, I've been told I don't know my place as a woman. Being away from him for the last couple of weeks has been such a release. I feel a huge weight lifted from my shoulders. 

His constant threats and harassment are still frustrating, but I at least don't have to see him or hear his voice. Using the children as a tool and acting straight up crazy is making it very easy for me to let go.

I'm very excited to just worry about my own life for now. Finish school, bond with my children, find a job, get my very own place. It will be great. I have spoken to another man in a group setting, and he is very nice and interesting, but my life and mind are way too complicated to even get into that right now. I need to focus on myself. Thanks for all the kind words and advice.


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## turnera

rrhouse said:


> I drank enough to get flagged by a cop- once. It was scary. When I go out now I have a DD, even if I only have a couple drinks. I'm an adult and can make adult decisions just like the rest of us.


You have an aggressive, scary, mean, maybe evil man trying to ruin you, and most likely try to take your kids from you...and you're saying you 'need' to go out and drink. 

No, you don't. 

There are a thousand ways to go out and have a good time and get relief and feel better without doing the ONE thing that your POS husband can use against you to take your kids away.

Grow up. At least until the divorce is final.


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## rrhouse

turnera said:


> rrhouse said:
> 
> 
> 
> I drank enough to get flagged by a cop- once. It was scary. When I go out now I have a DD, even if I only have a couple drinks. I'm an adult and can make adult decisions just like the rest of us.
> 
> 
> 
> You have an aggressive, scary, mean, maybe evil man trying to ruin you, and most likely try to take your kids from you...and you're saying you 'need' to go out and drink.
> 
> No, you don't.
> 
> There are a thousand ways to go out and have a good time and get relief and feel better without doing the ONE thing that your POS husband can use against you to take your kids away.
> 
> Grow up. At least until the divorce is final.
Click to expand...

I see where you're coming from. I do. 

My husband drinks a bottle of rum a night, frequents bars, drives around, stays in hotels with other women, comes home, pisses the bed, passes out in various places in the house, and misses work. He has not a pot to piss in. No judge in their right mind will take my children away and give them to him. 

I have texts from him saying he fell down drunk and hurt himself, and that he plans on going to a rehab center. He can't take my kids away to stay with a sitter while he does all of the above and *maybe* goes to rehab. It's ridiculous. 

I don't 'need' to drink. I've asked him to help with the kids so I can go to a party (and NOT drink) and he still threatened me. There's no winning with him.


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## rrhouse

I have access to his email, social media, etc. There is no lawyer. He's not actually stalking me. Last night when he said he was searching for me around town, he was actually texting me from his favorite bar, in the bathroom. 

He is full of sh** and getting a kick out of scaring me into staying home. Controlling me from afar. Trying to make me feel like I need his permission to do anything.


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## turnera

It doesn't matter what HE does. YOU aren't going to try to ruin his life.

He IS.


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## lifeistooshort

Yep, classic case of give him the rope and he'll hang himself. 

Ha ha, my ex thought he could change me too. Once I asked him to tell me one thing he thought I did right and his response was that he was trying to fix that. As in fix me. Yet he fought the divorce tooth and nail, which I don't get. Life is too short, if you don't like me and I don't like you let's make a fair deal and move on. 

You know what? It took some years but we get along ok now. I'm even going to testify on his behalf regarding some trouble he's having with a neighbor, because he lives in our old house and I know this neighbor well. And he's much happier without me. He gets along better with his dogs.

Did I mention he was also a drunk who told me I should kill myself? I have to say your hb is much worse, but I have a little experience with abusive drunks.

But I have a little different upbringing than you do and at one point I called his bluff when he raised his hands to me.....i threatened to kill him if I got back up. He backed down. Probably helps that I'm a second degree black belt that has some fighting experience 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Honestly, if you think there is a chance he might try to use your drinking against you when it comes time to fight for custody, then I would just avoid drinking altogether until all of this is worked out. Is that fair? Not at all, but you want to play it safe right now.

Yes, get the restraining order and make clear on it what he has done and threatened. The judge will grant you temporary emergency orders, and probably require that your husband see a psychologist before he is allowed to see the kids again.

Avoid any form of relationships with other men right now as well. Again, you don't want to give your husband ammo against you.


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## GusPolinski

Any updates, @rrhouse?

How have you been?


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## lifeistooshort

Any updates? Hope you're ok.


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## GusPolinski

Any updates, @rrhouse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rrhouse

Hey everyone, 

I just realized I completely abandoned this thread. My apologies. I just finished graduate school a few months ago and have been slowly returning to normal life. My ex husband and I finalized the divorce a few months ago too. He has been moving from friend's houses to girlfriends' houses since we split and I have been living in another city. I don't know if I mentioned meeting a man shortly after I moved out of my ex's house, but that man and I have been dating since then. It's been almost a year and a half. The new guy is incredibly refreshing compared to men from my past. I actually was reminded of this thread because I was searching relationship advice and for information about attachment issues. Not surprisingly I still have a lot of emotional stuff to figure out, but I am lucky to have a boyfriend that is understanding and helps me rationalize things. I've also been doing thing to improve myself. I joined a local roller derby league, and have been making new friends and healthy habits. I rarely drink these days. My children are doing great as well. They get to see their dad every other weekend and holiday. Things have really sorted themselves out and I am pretty dang happy. I really appreciate everyone's advice and I feel bad about leaving this post un-updated. I'll probably be posting in the relationship advice threads soon because I still get confused about that from time to time. Haha. 

-Again, thanks for all of the support and advice. You guys helped me through one of the most difficult times of my life.


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