# Men... if this were you



## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

You realize that you have contributed to your wife distancing yourself, and have an epiphany over a weekend away by yourself camping... you come home to tell your wife, that you have this realization and you feel like crap that you are the cause because you are so busy with outside activities, don't listen to the things your wife has been telling you all along about her needs, despite her listening and meeting yours... you feel the distance growing and your wife agrees. Wife is exhausted with repeating herself and you know this. Despite that, wife continues to be a good loyal wife.... Does such a realization make you distance yourself more? Do you expect your wife to give you some sort of feedback? Wife does tell you that she is unhappy but not planning on going anywhere, there is no affair on her side... but she expresses one final time her need for emotional connection with you, and gives very specific examples. 

Do you just give up at this point? 

I feel like my husband has. This all happened about a month ago, and for a day or two he made some efforts and I guess expected it to all go away, and I had told him, that when I bring things up about what I want in our relationship, he does it just long enough to shut me up, to fall for him again, be attracted to him again (basically get what he wants) and then stops. I did explain this during that conversation, that just like it took me some time to show him that I was vested into fixing our sex issues and put in some serious what I would call mental overtime into fixing it, hours on here of research and rekindled my own desire, just to have it fizzle again to realize that it was because of lack of reciprocation... (not sexual) but affection without sex. I gave many numerous examples of things he could do. He has done not a single one. I think he is disconnected himself. I don't know, he isn't one to usually just open up on his own, I usually have to pry things out of him, and frankly I am tired of doing that... I'm sure he may feel the same about me sometimes. 

To double add to this, I have severe abandonment issues, deep seeded since childhood, and so if he even shows the slightest interest in another woman as a "new" friend, I freak inside. Currently this is happening, and he is back to placing his phone face down and keeping it with him, a habit he has developed after I snooped one time, and with reasonable suspicion.... 

I have no idea how to fix my marriage. I am not sure about counseling, it didn't help me with my abandonment issues (despite seeing several therapists, instead I was diagnoses with anxiety and PTSD- different than the military PTSD but similar process that happens as a chemical reaction in my body).... 
I need to feel secure in my marriage, and I do not right now. We got married when I was 21 and he was 26. We have been married for over 10 years and have two young children, 8 and 9.

Add to this a past of some LD/HD issues when my children were first born, (never went longer than two weeks) although he would count the days (and probably still does) much improvement was made on that on my part in the last 2 years... when my attraction level to him started to diminish, he felt it... which is why he brought up the conversation. 

For some wild reason too that night, I was going to a concert with a girl friend, he said he wondered if I was even going to come home that night.... I thought that comment was way inappropriate and told him so, as I have NEVER exhibited such behavior, nor even threatened it or thought about it.... 
So weird. I need a males viewpoint here. 
We have read his needs her needs, he read it after three times of being asked to read the short version (this was before his trip). I guess I am just at a loss and need some male input... outside of my marriage, unbiased.
What would you do as a male? What would you expect from your wife?


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I gave many numerous examples of things he could do. He has done not a single one.


*There is no excuse for this!*
The only possible thing that I can think of is that he thinks that you are not going to ever get satisfied with your abandoned issue no matter what he does and he does not want the failure. That is a wild guess and probably does not apply.




> To double add to this, I have severe abandonment issues, deep seeded since childhood


This is a serious problem and needs a good professional





> I need to feel secure in my marriage, and I do not right now.
> What would you do as a male?


I would start doing the things that you listed and be very sensitive about you thinking that I want another woman. I would search for a very competent professional with proven successes with abandonment issues and encourage you to try again with any and all therapies.* I would also work on improving myself so that I can be a better me and help you be a better you.*


.


> What would you expect from your wife?


I would expect her to try everything until she got the right help with her abandonment issues.* Even if she is fearful I would expect her to go through with any treatment that would get her better*. I would also do my part whatever that is so that my wife could get better in that department

I think that your husband’s behavior is serious and I think that your abandonment issues are serious and without improvement on both, your marriage has a strong chance of failing. With determination and the right actions you both can get better.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> To double add to this, I have severe abandonment issues, deep seeded since childhood, and so if he even shows the slightest interest in another woman as a "new" friend, I freak inside. Currently this is happening, and he is back to placing his phone face down and keeping it with him, a habit he has developed after I snooped one time, and with reasonable suspicion....


There are three area's of intrest here:

1. His behavior towards you. He looks like the Jeff Bingham character in Rules Of Engagement. I am wondering to what extent American males see this actually as alpha man behavior, and thus strive to portrait themselves like this Jeff. Do you know his point of view here??

2. The remark above, indicating you suspect something. You should give more info, you are elaborate about his and your psychology, but not about red flags here. Whatsup?

3. Your psychological problems. Regardless of previous experiences, you need IC. Just keep trying for another councellor untill you meet someone with whom it 'clicks'.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> There are three area's of intrest here:
> 
> 1. His behavior towards you. He looks like the Jeff Bingham character in Rules Of Engagement. I am wondering to what extent American males see this actually as alpha man behavior, and thus strive to portrait themselves like this Jeff. Do you know his point of view here??
> 
> ...


No I do not know the movie. I have been through IC as much as possible since childhood (into adulthood) my brain is wired differently due to the PTSD... basically my brain in in constant stress mode, as is my body... the medication helps. 
With regards to his behavior, instead of becoming more vested, he distanced himself, which has me on edge and watching. I have noticed that he is more secretive with his phone than he was before, all in coincidence with this new female friend he is doing a temporary project with.... it takes every ounce of my strength not to snope again. (Some more history to add here) He has always said he is a one woman man, but then to have thoughts that I would not come home for a night, when I have never given implications of such behavior I found odd... his facebook activity has been more, and his text messages more than his usual... and just a couple days ago he chose a quieter tone when he gets a text.... just things that I have observed in my heightened PTSD self sense.... watching to see why is he not engaged in our relationship and making the extra effort like I had done for so long. I almost feel like to him... it's too much work.... if that makes sense, but it is so hard to know. 
But I am honestly not open to a new IC... I see a psychologist now, after having years of crippling anxiety attacks. They have stopped, thank God, and I am diligent about my mind frame, the biggest part is being aware of it... which makes it harder to decipher his behavior, because the emtional (irrational) side thinks he is finding his own emotional support, fun, whatever, elsewhere... and the rational side of me, says, is that the PTSD Abandonment talking? Maybe this will help you understand. 

Ok so this project, he did it with another group of people recently, the set up day took 1/2 day the first time. With this woman, whom he spoke of initially as being a big flirt... was the entire day. (of course he had various reasons for this) and he did not call or text me at all. Other project he called me at lunch, this project, no call.


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## FemBot (May 1, 2013)

I know you are seeking a mans POV but thought I'd chime in. Please disregard if its not what you are looking for 

I really think you are too invested in him to make you happy and perhaps he feels that and it makes you unattractive. I think you need to start going out more and having fun and stop caring about what he thinks and feels. If you are doing all the work and he's acting shady I would start looking at myself and why I'm not happy. Due to your various mental issues it probably makes it hard for you to relax, have fun and let go. Does that sound right? I may be waaay off base here!


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

FemBot said:


> I know you are seeking a mans POV but thought I'd chime in. Please disregard if its not what you are looking for
> 
> I really think you are too invested in him to make you happy and perhaps he feels that and it makes you unattractive. I think you need to start going out more and having fun and stop caring about what he thinks and feels. If you are doing all the work and he's acting shady I would start looking at myself and why I'm not happy. Due to your various mental issues it probably makes it hard for you to relax, have fun and let go. Does that sound right? I may be waaay off base here!


No, you are off base, the only reason I mentioned that was because of the history with regards to trying to interpret his actions, and my difficulty in doing so... I have friends and have been going out more, implementing part of the 180 to make myself feel better... I was going out the night he mentioned that he wondered if I might not come home.... I was going to a concert. I go visit with friends more often, etc. I know that I cannot depend on him entirely  I have been through years of counseling and that is something I learned, so when we moved 3 years ago I had to make new friends on my own. But I make female friends... not male friends.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

A couple of possibilities based on my experience. He could be unhappy as well, but all of the focus is on your unhappiness, so he's feeling diminished by the whole process. 

Or he's made changes and not seen any improvement so he doubts that it is the answer to your relationship problems.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

I am curious about the specific things that you asked him to do. What are they?

I know for myself, there are a couple of things that my wife would like me to do more of, that I have a difficult time with. Same thing with her.

My wife wants me to talk to her more. For me, I have a hard time discussing mundain things about my day with my wife. I have a highly technical job that isn't much to talk about. If something happens, I have to make a conscious effort to try to remember to tell my wife about it. It just doesn't come naturally to me. 

I would like my wife to be more affectionate. She rarely hugs me or holds my hand or rubs my back. If I try to be affectionate, she often shrugs me away. 

Over the years, I have learned to just accept that this is the way she is. She hasn't quite accepted how I am :-(.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Also, if he feels that you don't respect him or that your respect is conditional he's not going to invest much effort. And that's a reasonable stance. If he's feeling that he has to do these things to make you happy but still not earn your respect in the process, what's the point?


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

I’ve had one of those epiphanies. I can only speak for myself, but what I did was let my wife know what I thought. Then I started working on myself and those areas *I thought* I needed to correct. 

A couple things; Communication. We did need MC to learn to communicate effectively. My wife liked to ‘tell me’ what I should be doing. The problem really is; That is how she would do it if she were me... but she’s not me. So, she would do those very specific ‘suggestions’ that listed out more like pet peeves. I am not a butler or a servant or a child. I had to get her to take the focus off of actions, and back onto herself and what she doesn’t like about herself and what she feels and how I influence it.

So, I worked on me, doing things my way. If I did something for her, I would tell her ‘why’ or ‘what my intentions were’. It really is sort of amazing how she could completely misinterpret my actions and assume the worst intentions. That was what was stupid of her; I wanted her to feel the same way she wanted to feel. Thing is, no matter what I did, she’d put a negative spin on it so she wouldn’t feel that way. By calling her out on it and forcing her to question herself, things started changing.

Example; She basically assumed anything nice I did for her was to manipulate her into having sex (a bad thing in her head). Yes, I wanted sex... So, when I did things for her that I thought might be interpreted as romantic gestures, I was just blunt about it. But I did a lot of things because she looked stressed from work or the kids. I did a lot of things ‘just because’ I felt like it. As this goes on, she learned why I did what I would do and her perceptions changed. 

I even went into why I did some things I know torque her. What I got out of it and why I felt it was more important to me than her feelings about it. And those are some areas I did change; I found other ways to get what I wanted that didn’t hurt her feelings as much. There are some things though that we will not see eye to eye on. For those, I just reinforce that she is not me and we won’t ever be ‘the same’... there are things she does that aren’t what I like either. I accept there are differences between us and THAT is normal. Hiding those differences is a problem... So, I’m also just up front about that too. It’s all about me letting her know who she is dealing with without having to guess or try to sniff out bullsh1t.


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## VermisciousKnid (Dec 27, 2011)

Racer said:


> I
> 
> A couple things; Communication. We did need MC to learn to communicate effectively. My wife liked to ‘tell me’ what I should be doing. The problem really is; That is how she would do it if she were me... but she’s not me. So, she would do those very specific ‘suggestions’ that listed out more like pet peeves. I am not a butler or a servant or a child. I had to get her to take the focus off of actions, and back onto herself and what she doesn’t like about herself and what she feels and how I influence it.
> 
> ...


Mine likes to tell me as well. But the fact is that when I do these things, give compliments or support, she dismisses them. There's never a "thanks" from her or an acknowledgement that I'm making changes. I don't know if it's residual resentment, her strong martyr complex, her need to keep me in the position of striving to make her happy, her need to be in control... But the fact is that she is chronically unhappy with everything so my conclusion is that she needs to work on herself as much as I need to work on the marriage if not more so.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

What I asked my husband to do, was to be more romantic and hit my preheat buttons (head and heart) and gave him various examples of ways to do this. I also told him I wanted to spend more quality time together and it would be nice if once and a while to arrange child care and suprise me (he could arrange child care for something important regarding an organization we work with that he wanted me to attend in his absence) but has not in years planned a date night (other than a strip poker game). I told him I wanted us to go back to being a couple, instead of roomates/coparents that have sex. I wanted to feel wanted again, and based on previous posts here.. I gave him again specific examples. We did go out one night in the beginning of June (I arranged). We had a good time. This was before he went on that trip. I am confused now more than ever based on things I have posted here before, I was told to tell him specifically what I wanted, because men are not mind readers, but then you guys don't like to be told what to do? (My whole point initially in prior posts was I didn't want to tell him what to do because I wanted him to take some time and effort and try things on his own). Well clearly telling him didn't work either. 

I have been working on myself, I dress nicer even just hanging around the house (doesn't get noticed) except one comment about a new shirt. I have been watching my weight (not overweight at all but just keeping more tone) doing better physical therapy to make my back hurt less. I spent almost two years, coming up with new ways to please him (his only complaint our entire marriage, up until recently) was our sex life.... as I said... he wanted more, and wanted more freely given things (like Bj's) so I told him ok I will work on that. I did for over a year, we had more sex than we ever did including when we were dating and we came to a nice agreement on a once a month to completion BJ when I have my monthly (he still gets satisfied)... I did this for a long while, but over the last two months my drive diminished a little and he felt it and that is what prompted the discussion... he asked me what was wrong, he felt me distancing himself. I told him, I don't feel like he takes any time to meet my needs. Sent him an article on his needs/her needs, that I had to ask him 3 times to read before he finally read it, right before he went away for the weekend on the project, then came back and said what he said.... 

I hope this helps clear things up. 
I work on myself on a daily basis, I have learned through IC how to manage my anxiety better, but it will never be completely gone. Which is why my tendency to overthink things will many times just cause me to stop and do something else. 

But... I was talking with a friend earlier and let me tell you men... one thing my husband said is that he missed playing video games with me. He is a tv junkie (me nutsomuch anymore)... anyway. I told him there are certain ones I like. He bought some (and as part of fulfilling his needs, I played some of them, some I liked, some I didn't). We have one that our entire family plays together and did on Friday night... well Sunday we wound up with no kids. He played another video game the entire day. I messed around on the computer, did some household things, etc... he later asked me at what was wrong and I said I was bored. He didn't care. Not one bit. I went to bed early that night too.... but this is just one example of why I came on here to get a males perspective. Because this last discussion was prompted by him, both times... and then he just acts entirely the opposite of what he said. So I am at a loss.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> He played another video game the entire day. I messed around on the computer, did some household things, etc... he later asked me at what was wrong and I said I was bored. He didn't care. Not one bit.


Playing devils advocate here.

"Bored" implies you want to be entertained.

What would happen if you said "I miss you" instead?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Playing devils advocate here.
> 
> "Bored" implies you want to be entertained.
> 
> What would happen if you said "I miss you" instead?


I have no idea... my guesstimate is he would be like what? And assume something sexual. lol


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

After this evening I have realized it is not my anxiety... but he is up to something, whether it is an EA or more I have yet to figure out. But he has lied. I posted in the other forum to get advice to find out the truth without tipping him off.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> After this evening I have realized it is not my anxiety... but he is up to something, whether it is an EA or more I have yet to figure out. But he has lied. I posted in the other forum to get advice to find out the truth without tipping him off.












There are red flags in what you described about texting and his interest in the other woman.

Good you took action.


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