# Naked Party?



## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

So after 1 month and about a week of no contact a wake up at 2:33 a.m. to a text from my STBXH saying - Naked party? - followed by another text about 10 minutes later saying - Are you there? I need you. After no response he begins to repeatedly call me over and over again. I still don't respond and after the 5th call I shut my phone off. 

So my question is now what? He told me in the December (out of the blue) while I was on my way to work he wanted a divorce. No real legitimate reason for wanting a divorce. I haven't received any paperwork yet and I have finished mine. It crushed me. He forced me out of the home about 3 weeks later but not before I got a hold of his phone I realized he had been seeing someone he went to high school with since than I've cut off all contact with him and have been working on myself including getting myself into IC. None of this has been easy for me. I've decided to stay at NC. I have nothing to say. I'm actually embarrassed for him.

Any thoughts or opinions?


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

You're doing the right thing. Stay NC.

Who does he think he is to treat you the way he did, and expect you to want to have anything to do with him?


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

Drunk Dialing?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I did some snooping on Facebook and looked up the woman he was seeing when I left. I noticed she posted on January 20th that she was super excited because in 2 weeks she was going on an all expenses paid trip to visit her brother in New York City. Kind of wondering if the only reason he started contacting me again was because she was out of town.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

ReGroup said:


> Drunk Dialing?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Suspected that, too. Being it was 2:33 a.m. when it started.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Oh man..... Sorry

Next time shut it off after the first ring!


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

He doesn't deserve any drunk naked parties right now. His behavior is not conducive to reconciliation, he is not contrite. He can want anything, but until he is contrite for the harm he has done, there is really nothing to discuss. I recommend that you consult an attorney and determine your legal rights. Filing first will give you the upper hand, as he probably has not thought this out well. You need to look out for you right now. Also recommend that you start individual counseling, to start sorting out your emotions.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

Add his number to your cell phone blocked call list. When he calls it will automatically go to voicemail.

Put him on ignore list in your mind.


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## ReGroup (Dec 6, 2012)

All we know is that it was a small victory in your favor - not picking up or responding to the messages is a step in the right direction. Empowerment - can you feel it?

You sent him a very clear message on that night. You communicated a boundary without uttering a single word. 

Talk less - Do more.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

So the OW was likely out of town? And you are what, plan B? I don't think so. Even if the OW didn't factor into his actions, a month with NC, and that is how he tries to initiate contact.
I know how I'd feel, but you haven't mentioned whether you are open to R.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> So the OW was likely out of town? And you are what, plan B? I don't think so. Even if the OW didn't factor into his actions, a month with NC, and that is how he tries to initiate contact.
> I know how I'd feel, but you haven't mentioned whether you are open to R.


I think many of us here hope for reconciliation at one point especially if we were left out of the blue. Before I found out about the OW, of course, I wanted to reconcile. I can't turn my feelings off like a light switch. I guess receiving the texts just confused me. I don't know if he was just drunk dialing or if it was his way of opening up the lines of communication with me? I'll never know but I'm not reaching out to him. He was being rude and disrespectful either way. There is a long list of things that would have to happen before we reconciled including hell freezing over and my mother in law burning in hell. Who knows when that will happen?


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

ICLH,

I applaud your strength. It hit me the other day listening to the song Let Her Go that yes, you know you love her when you let her go but you know you love yourself when you know you will never take her back.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

AFPhoenix said:


> ICLH,
> 
> I applaud your strength. It hit me the other day listening to the song Let Her Go that yes, you know you love her when you let her go but you know you love yourself when you know you will never take her back.


I still bleeping hate that song. I've had coworkers hang the words in my office. Thanks ____ers!


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Who sings it? Guess I should look up the lyrics. I see a lot of posts on TAM talking about it. If it's a sappy song - I hate those.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Well, I guess you could send her a copy of the texts and call log and ask her why her boyfriend is contacting you in the middle of the night. But then I'm evil like that.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

ICLH said:


> Who sings it? Guess I should look up the lyrics. I see a lot of posts on TAM talking about it. If it's a sappy song - I hate those.


Passenger - Let her go *lyrics* - YouTube Passenger


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I have to admit that's a catchy tune.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

He tried calling again but this time at a decent hour. Didn't leave a message and I didn't answer. I am assuming he is trying to open up the lines of communication for one reason or another. Not sure what to do?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

ICLH said:


> Any thoughts or opinions?


Yeah, keep doing what you're doing. What a loser.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If he had seen the light, he write you a letter abjectly apologizing for his betrayal. Does he know that you know about OW?

How could he be so flippant? Naked party. How old is he?

How would you rate his social competence?

When you were together was he capable of meeting your needs?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

ICLH,

I went back and read your other two threads. You are a good writer, even if you could be more generous with the paragraphs

Your husband may be very uncomfortable with your ambitions. If you have college degree and he does not, then your sex ranking changes. Generally college educated women do not marry working class guys, so he may feel you are rejecting him by aspiring to better yourself.

When school and work got you busy he may have interpreted that as the beginning of your eventual rejection of him once your studies finish. He should of course have discussed his anxieties with you, whatever they might be.

He is passive aggressive. Quiting work was a major but indirect expression of his resentment.

The key to the truck, as you well know was just a pretext to blow up.

The OW appears not to be a great love but a salve for his fragile ego. He is now, reconsidering the divorce because you are head and shoulders above her.

You have not managed to convey much positive about him, although he was at one time doting. He is rather simple. Perhaps you like his relative straightforwardness. And he may appreciate your stability, but whatever positive there is in your dynamic it has come undone.

Although his "naked party" was flippant, it was feeler to reconcile. Perhaps an inappropriate sense of humor is better than some dower needy begging. Nonetheless, your WH is a mess. The narcissistic and callous approach to you is horrible. He would have to express genuine remorse and really work on fixing himself before R would be worth any consideration.

Since he has cheated and that is a deal breaker, simply moving on seems entirely sound, sorrowful though it may be.

You consider your husband good looking. How do you feel about yourself? You are 33. Just young enough to find happiness with someone else. Perhaps you can even start a family. 

Why didn't you have children if I may ask.

As to communication, well, you are still in need of closure, so you can text him to ask why he is contacting you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Someone that wants to start an honest dialogue doesn't call you for sex while his gf is out of town, and he leaves you a message that starts with "ok, I know I'm a pos and I don't deserve anything from you but I'd like to talk". In the absence of that keep ignoring him; he was really sh!tty to you and you'd likely get back what you had. Maybe things with gf aren't going that well and he wants a backup. You could send gf a Facebook message asking her to keep her bf from dialing you for sex....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> If he had seen the light, he write you a letter abjectly apologizing for his betrayal. Does he know that you know about OW?
> 
> How could he be so flippant? Naked party. How old is he?
> 
> ...


He knows I know about the other woman because I told his brother about it before I moved out. His brother told his mom who told him. I never said a word about it to him but he came home one night and told me she was just a friend. More like a friend with benefits. I have all the texts. 

As far as social competence, he gets along well with others and has been successful in all his pursuits. BUT - his emotional intelligence is lacking. He would say that everyone around him praises him and thinks he is wonderful and I see that so I withhold praise from him. He only allows people to be involved into his life at a certain level - the fun guy level. When a relationship should start to develop that allows for a deeper understanding of him he pushes that person out of his life so therefore they never see the other side of him. They only every get to see the care free - jokester. At home, he is high stress, obsessive, and up tight. Always worried about what others think of him. His mother has always reinforced his bad behavior and he has never had to acknowledge any wrong doing. I believe a big part in his interest with me was that I challenged him on all that and at the same time made him comfortable enough to show me other layers of his personality that he would never otherwise expose to others.

In the beginning, he was capable of meeting my needs. He was very attentive and we could talk like best friends. As the newness of the relationship wore off it became more about him, him, him, and what I could do for him. It seemed he was always challenging me to prove my love for him. The communication between us went from being a 10 to a 2. We could never have a constructive argument. He presented his side and that was it - an open and shut case. This built a lot of resentment inside of me. His mother played a big part in the upset of the relationship. He would run to her for reinforcement during an argument and he would get it and run with it.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

[/QUOTE]


LongWalk said:


> ICLH,
> 
> I went back and read your other two threads. You are a good writer, even if you could be more generous with the paragraphs
> 
> ...


Hi LongWalk - I appreciate you taking the time to read my threads. Sorry about the paragraphs in the first thread I wrote. I got a lot of complaints about that. He was out with the other woman the night I wrote it and I was distraught and desperate for the best quick advice I could get. LOL

My husband has a Bachelor's Degree that he obtained from a prestigious college back in 2001. He was accepted to the college via football scholarship but the degree was never used for anything. He's worked in the construction trade his whole life. It's his passion. He is 38 years old. You are right in saying he is simple. I am simple, too. Our home life was for the most part always very peaceful as was the life we lead. His prior relationships involved a lot of disruption and drama and sometimes I feel that he viewed his life with me stagnant and boring because I never offered that element to our relationship.

I do appreciate his straightforwardness. I find that an attractive quality even if at times it can be hurtful. I'd rather be told the truth than be lied too. The first night we met each other we fought all night. I thought he was an ******* but he was direct. He pursued me for some strange reason and the only reason why I gave him a chance was due to his straightforwardness. I figured it would be safe to think I wouldn't be wasting any time on the development of the relationship because he would tell me if I was. Unfortunately, we got married after he decided the relationship wasn't for him.

We do not have children. I didn't want to have children unless I was married. We got married in Mexico and while we were waiting at the airport to go home he asked when we could start having kids. It was discussed and decided that we would wait a year. That would give him time to obtain another job with insurance and I could finish school and continuing working. The first year of our marriage he went back and forth with the idea of children. He wanted them and than he didn't. He told my family he couldn't wait to have children. A year went by and he had quit his job so the deal was still have the table. To be honest, I don't really want children. Maybe I will change my mind under different circumstances but I'm glad we never had them. What I find so strange his the last day I talked to him about the divorce he said that he couldn't give me children. That threw me for a loop. He never elaborated what he meant by that. Maybe I found out he was sterile and never told me. Nonetheless, if he had a medical condition that prevented him from having children I would have not been disappointed!

My husband is very attractive. I attached a picture. He's always gotten a lot of attention from other females and it's almost like he needs constant attention in order to thrive sometimes. He was a model in his youth. I've been told that we are equals in attractiveness but I don't put an emphasis on my appearance. I think intelligence, confidence, moral beliefs, and personality, are what make a person attractive. I feel I'm more emotionally attractive than him. 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3893255624305&l=481fd52241

All I know is I miss him and I miss what we HAD. I just can't find ANY words to speak to him especially after what he has recently given me to go off of. I was expecting an apology if any contact was to occur but Naked Party? Come on! What an *******. He's the same guy I fought with the night I met him.


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

Hey ICLH. Your ex pushed you away, and now appears to be trying to pull you back. If you go back, what reason do you have to believe anything would be different the second time around?


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

IronWine29 said:


> Hey ICLH. Your ex pushed you away, and now appears to be trying to pull you back. If you go back, what reason do you have to believe anything would be different the second time around?


That's the thing. I don't have any intentions on reconciling with him. At the most reconciliation is just a fantasy. I don't have any reason to believe anything will be different a second time around. Not after what he has said and done. He destroyed and sabotaged the relationship before he was even given a real reason to do so. That's what hurts the most. He's proven he isn't strong enough to make good marriage material. 

There is a statement he made to me that keeps echoing in my head - he said, "Why would you want to stay with me when I'm just going to keep cheating on you over and over again? Do you want to waste 5 more years of your life just to be sitting in the same position you are now?" Believe me I wasn't begging him to stay and I didn't even bring up the other woman. He said all that on his own almost as if he was disappointed I wasn't begging, crying, and pleading after I found out about her. I never batted an eye even after he brought it to my attention he knew I knew. I didn't say a word.

My confusion stems from his recent texts. I don't get it? If he felt so strongly about his decision to divorce me and move on so quickly than why is he reaching out to me? Is this just a game? I just don't understand.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

And on a side note - this mention of him reaching out to me via text with - Naked Party? He said the same thing to the other woman in their texts back in forth. She asked, "Do you mean a naked party with other people involved?" And he said, "I've never had a naked party with more than one person but I'm just thinking of having one with you. If you want more people involved I'm down with that." So what is this all about? I'm getting fired up just typing this!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Thanks for the picture to illustrate. Yeah, your husband is a good looking rugged guy. Gosh, now I want to see a picture of you by the same pool – you must be cute

re: Your decision to get out of the this marriage

He may have set the ball rolling in a hissy fit but you are in the driver's seat. A person like your husband is co-dependent with is mother. He married you because you are strong and grounded. He wants you to cover for him. Unconsciously, he knows that he cannot manage on his own. His pre-you life was full of drunken hook ups, correct? He probably senses that without you he is going to go down the tubes.

Is your husband hopeless? Probably. In any case, for you to consider reconciliation, he must have a Jesus moment and very soon. How likely is that? Not very. He needs therapy. Without genuine remorse your husband is not worth a second look. He needs to kiss your feet big time.

You should just continue NC. Protect your economic interests in divorce. You sound quite fair minded. You should get lawyer to review everything, including the inherited property, etc. Take whatever you have a right to.

He has treated you really poorly in his divorce play get-her-out-of-the-house game.

What do you know of his fishing buddies/best friends? It would not surprise me if one or two of them like you. If you had them over for a barbeque, would any of them gravitate to you to chat? Did they tell your H that he was a lucky guy?

It must be a big disappointment to have place a bet on your H. Now you will be back in the dating game. But before you groan, remember that you are still young enough to find happiness. The problem is that the pool of good eligible men shrinks in your 30s. Life isn't fair.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Thanks for the picture to illustrate. Yeah, your husband is a good looking rugged guy. Gosh, now I want to see a picture of you by the same pool – you must be cute
> 
> re: Your decision to get out of the this marriage
> 
> ...


As a women pushing 40 I think your last statement is not entirely true, it's a myth that men have. As you get older there are always fewer people, but let's put it in perspective: in your 20's there are say, 1000 eligible men. In your 30's there are now 800 as some have married, but how many do you need? Just one. 

There are always good men out there, it's a matter of keeping your expectations reasonable and getting out where men are. I'm happily married but have never had trouble meeting good men, and if I was single now I wouldn't have any trouble. OP, 33 is nothing; you're a great catch and someone else will see that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

LifeisShort,

Life is short

However, OP comes off well in her prose. That is why I suspect her husband's buddies might like her, unless they are shallow.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

There is a long line of good men that would be thrilled to date a good 33 year old woman


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## IronWine29 (Dec 31, 2013)

ICLH said:


> My confusion stems from his recent texts. I don't get it? If he felt so strongly about his decision to divorce me and move on so quickly than why is he reaching out to me? Is this just a game? I just don't understand.


Hey ICLH,

Now I know why this bothers me. A few days after my ex initially said she wanted to divorce, we sat down and discussed things. I told her that if we were going to split, I was going to relocate several hours away. She got hysterical. When I told her a few days later that I was talking to a divorce attorney, she again, became very upset and said she wanted to go to MC.

When we went to MC, she said she wanted me to find someone else who shared my interests.

At this point, I was like, "Seriously?" because of all the other stuff going on. But I discussed this with my psychologist, because I found it very confusing.

He said a wayward spouse always experiences regret, even if they don't admit or acknowledge it, or seem to be "fine." This can result in behavior that alternately seems to push you away and pull you back.

A less charitable way to look at it is -- if you were in a seriously codependent relationship as I was -- is that when you go NC, the wayward spouse realizes they have lost a measure of control over you, and they seek to reassert that control by appealing to your emotions. I guess this would be cake-eating.

In my case, my ex was not truly remorseful, and that became readily apparent over time. Her overtures just gave me false hope, created a lot of drama, and left me much more hurt and angry than if she had just walked out and gone NC.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm not even sure I needed one but I definitely had an epiphany of sorts. Unless you see the same ICLH, there are a ton of guys looking for a good woman and you sound like one!


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## AFPhoenix (Dec 24, 2013)

LBH,

I know I'm looking for a good woman. One that appreciates me. One that satisfies my love languages. Don't worry ILCH, you'll find what you're looking for...we all will hopefully.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Thanks for the picture to illustrate. Yeah, your husband is a good looking rugged guy. Gosh, now I want to see a picture of you by the same pool – you must be cute
> 
> re: Your decision to get out of the this marriage
> 
> ...


I really appreciate you taking the time to respond. Your insight regarding my husband is unbelievable. Are you sure you aren't him - spying on me? 

You are correct - his life has been full of drunken hook-ups. He's 38 and I was the first woman to ever live with him. He'd only had two official relationships before me and that was at a period in time where he had inherited and had a lot of money. He bought and paid for those relationships. He's admitted that he has had a habit of sabotaging past relationships by sleeping with other woman. Not sure why I thought it would be different for me.

He would have to have a "jesus" moment and I agree - very unlikely. When I moved out of the house I took the brain he had to work with, too. Even if he had a moment of regret I think his thoughts on reconciliation could quickly change if ANY girl gave him attention. 

As far as his friends and fishing buddies go, before I had even moved out of the house I had one texting me offering his "support" which turned into him asking me to dinner and movie. It really pissed me off. In the beginning of the relationship a couple of his friends tried to get together with me behind his back. I told him about this and how it made me feel uncomfortable to be around them - one of them was his boss. It was disrespectful on all levels. He cut of the friendships but blamed and resented me for it. He admitted that a couple of his buddies told him he was crazy for divorcing me. The two buddies that he spends the most time with are bad news and I've never met them. One of them gave him a number to the paralegal he used for his own divorce and also told him he'd give him money to get a lawyer. Anyway, to sum it all up I believe his friends are divided on their thoughts regarding his marriage and me.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

IronWine29 said:


> Hey ICLH,
> 
> Now I know why this bothers me. A few days after my ex initially said she wanted to divorce, we sat down and discussed things. I told her that if we were going to split, I was going to relocate several hours away. She got hysterical. When I told her a few days later that I was talking to a divorce attorney, she again, became very upset and said she wanted to go to MC.
> 
> ...


I appreciate you sharing this information with me. It makes a lot of sense and reassures me that I've made the right decision by continuing on with no contact. I guess he thought by offering me sex he was appealing to my emotions. I can't even picture myself having anything to with him sexually at all. He's an idiot. 

Assuming he was drunk, I firmly believe that his conscience reasons for reaching out to me stem not from remorse but from experiencing intense emotions brought about from his drunkenness. He's lost control and he may be experiencing some regret but not enough to do any type of work to reconcile. I think he was drunk and confused. As soon as he sobered up, I'm sure he reassured himself his life was wonderful without me.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

Sounds like your STBXH has spent his life trading on his looks, his charm, his 'fun-ness' and, at one point, his $$$$ to buy women.

The 'naked party?' text was him fishing to see if you're interested in being a bed-buddy (see, how I cleaned that up right there!) He is NOT serious about you. He was probably drunk, probably horny, probably girlfriend-less and he was hoping you were sad, missing him, horny, lonely, easily-persuaded for "old times' sake".

Since you don't have ANY children with him, why don't you change your cellphone number (if you block him, he'll just use his bro's or a friend's), send him an email with your divorce attorney's contact info, set up a NEW email account, block him from all social media and move on.

It will be very liberating to not only go NC with him, but to have him unable to reach out to you either!

Go enjoy 2014 without this schmuck! And his high-school gf on whom he'll soon be cheating as well!


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> Sounds like your STBXH has spent his life trading on his looks, his charm, his 'fun-ness' and, at one point, his $$$$ to buy women.
> 
> The 'naked party?' text was him fishing to see if you're interested in being a bed-buddy (see, how I cleaned that up right there!) He is NOT serious about you. He was probably drunk, probably horny, probably girlfriend-less and he was hoping you were sad, missing him, horny, lonely, easily-persuaded for "old times' sake".
> 
> ...


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

ICLH,

The irony is that if you were to take him back in R, that would simply confirm to him that he can get away with the same old equine dung that he has got away with in the past.

A long time single buddy of mine who occassionally had girlfriends that he kept at a distance is a very fine person. He translates books, owns a business, gives lectures, etc. He is a great conversationalist. I always hang out with him for a beer when I visit his city. However, I noticed that he is selfish as a result of bachelor habits. This is rather unconscious.

By selfish I mean that his entire day. Most of the positive emotional rewards in life come from himself and are given to himself. He decides what to eat for lunch, where to go, etc. Everything is about him. Okay, his brother has kids and he likes to play uncle a bit, but basically single bachelor guys become to independent. Having a woman who has opinions is exotic and fascinating but also confusing. This is why your WH probably went from being attentive to indifferent. He never broke his solitary habits.

Your husband has been somewhat of a player and he never accepted that he could not go to other women for approval. Once he cheated became confused. Many cheating husbands want to cake eat, having a bit of tail on the side. Your husband is so dysfunctional that he could not deal with this duplicity. He is befuddled. That is why he is likely to drink more now to take the edge off of his confusion.

His desire to give you nothing in divorce is all about restoration of his possession of a portion of the universe. It is a very small universe because it lacks children. He half knows this. You were his shot at a bigger and happier life and he blew it. No matter what you ask for in your divorce settlement, even if it is just a pencil sharpener that he never uses will put him in a tizzy.

If you go for the property, which you should, he will consider you the most evil witch in the world. If you battle back and forth with lawyers a bit. You can make an offer to him:

"OK, I will let not fight you for the inheritance, but you must write a statement apologizing for cheating. The text should be simple: "ICLH, you were a good and faithful wife. I cheated on you and wrecked our marriage. Please accept my heartfelt apologiy."

Maybe it will not fix him but he needs a dressing down.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Longwalk - you are so right about his bachelor behavior. His selfishness was unconscious. He even said, "I just want my house back to myself. I want to come home and find everything I left laying out in the same place. I want my life back. I want to do things without feeling guilty." I said, "So the reason you want a divorce is because you are selfish?" He got mad and said NO! 

I identified those qualities about him after we moved in together and therefore tried not to infringe upon them. What I mean by that is I respected certain aspects of his lifestyle. I didn't move into his place and start demanding he take the basketball hoop in the living room of the wall and that drinking with his buddies in the garage after hours was off limits. I was real cool about it all. He on the other hand acted like the damn woman. We were together for 3 years before we got married. He had plenty of time to decide whether or not I'd be imposing on his life. I never pushed marriage on him at all. In fact, when he brought it up I wouldn't even respond really - for years. Finally, it got to a point where it felt it was right and he asked me. I said yes. We ran off to Mexico and had one of the most unforgettable times of my life. One of the last things I said to him was, "Why did you bother getting married? This is just all so ridiculous." It was the only time I've ever seen him look genuinely ashamed.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

True story.

Friend of mine just called. His wife kicked him out 8 months ago. He's a retired vet, good guy. Wife is and has been crazy. He's pining for her, she's dating. Whole nine yards.

She's sick last week - who does she call. My friend. What's he do? Rushes to get her to the ER. Gets her well. She repays him by asking him to stay over. A few days later they are right back to married life and she loves him terribly, why did they break up. Tonight.... He's back in his apartment.

I tell you all that because I think in this case. Your husband will be the wife in the above scenario.

Selfish people generally don't stop being selfish.

I think people can change behaviors if they are motivated to do so. But over the top narcissism isn't easy to overcome.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

And you're also right about him thinking I'd be the biggest witch for asking of anything in the divorce. He told me that he'd sale the fishing boat and give me half the money for it but that was the only thing he saw I was entitled to. When I told him I was getting a lawyer to find out about my rights he flipped on me and said, "Do you want to be known around town as a gold digger? You're just like all the other girls I dated." I know he's been stressing on what is going to come his way as far as what I ask for in the divorce. I was kind of thinking his offering up sex was his way of softening the blow off what he thinks I may have coming his way.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> True story.
> 
> Friend of mine just called. His wife kicked him out 8 months ago. He's a retired vet, good guy. Wife is and has been crazy. He's pining for her, she's dating. Whole nine yards.
> 
> ...


That scenario is very similar to the one I saw play out in my head if I was to run over there that night he said he needed me. That's why I didn't respond. I couldn't bare taking on anymore rejection from him. I don't doubt he is a narcisst.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

ICLH said:


> He tried calling again but this time at a decent hour. Didn't leave a message and I didn't answer. I am assuming he is trying to open up the lines of communication for one reason or another. Not sure what to do?


Nothing. Send him your lawyer's address.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

ICLH

You are handling this very well.


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## SlowlyGettingWiser (Apr 7, 2012)

ICLH:

I would suggest that you read "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. You can buy an e-version on-line, find it in a bookstore, or get it at a library. PLEASE read this book for yourself (says the formerly codependent SGW who left her narcissistic husband of 20years). You will find it eye-opening! You will make greater strides in fixing the problems within yourself that lead you to be in a relationship with someone like your STBXH.

Once you acknowledge and address those issues within yourself, you'll feel BETTER about making healthier choices in future relationships! You have a GREAT future ahead of you! Imagine how much happier you'll be alone (but with your self-respect) or with a healthy person in a future relationship!

Best wishes to you in 2014!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

ICLH,

Because you have a good head on your shoulders I am sure that you are kicking yourself for thinking that you could change him. In retrospect, it was naive and you see it clearly now. This is frustrating. You see your responsibility in the decision and that hurts, but you won't do it again.

Don't make a big deal about the divorce settlement. Just get a tough attorney and him/her to get everything they can because your husband cheated and kicked you out. You should most definitely get:

1) Every penny you put into the mortgage plus interest
2) Any unequal share that you put into the marriage by paying more bills or whatever. 

Make it reasonable.

3) Demand info about the inheritance in discovery. 

You can point blank tell him to his face that you'll fight the gold digger's fight, unless he writes an apology and kisses your feet. No licking between the toes, though. He can save that for all his naked parties, but you won't be there.

Do you live a small town?


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

You had me at.... I might have a really nice fishing boat.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Longwalk - are you serious about the bills. I earned WAY more than my wife and it seems like this will hurt me in the end. I know every state is different.

I wanted mediation and my wife told me no. Because of that I holed up for weeks answering her bible thick discovery. BUT because of that, I found out a lot of things that helped my case.

Just a tip, if the other side asks things that don't make sense - look deeper. I couldn't figure out why they wanted some things for 3 months, some for 12, some for 6, some for 36, etc. So I went through things much further back, voila'!!! I found some gold nuggets in our finances that she probably didn't think I'd find (money movements, etc.)


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Well done, LBHmidwest.

That's a tip for ICLH, who has been hurt by her WH's whole attitude towards money.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Well done, LBHmidwest.

That's a tip for ICLH, who has been hurt by her WH's whole attitude towards money.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

SlowlyGettingWiser said:


> ICLH:
> 
> I would suggest that you read "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. You can buy an e-version on-line, find it in a bookstore, or get it at a library. PLEASE read this book for yourself (says the formerly codependent SGW who left her narcissistic husband of 20years). You will find it eye-opening! You will make greater strides in fixing the problems within yourself that lead you to be in a relationship with someone like your STBXH.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the book suggestion. I'll look into it tonight. I had an IC session a couple hours ago and she made the suggestion that I look into a book on co-dependency. Your suggestion is much appreciated.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> ICLH,
> 
> Because you have a good head on your shoulders I am sure that you are kicking yourself for thinking that you could change him. In retrospect, it was naive and you see it clearly now. This is frustrating. You see your responsibility in the decision and that hurts, but you won't do it again.
> 
> ...


LOL. You are hilarious. His naked parties ... jesus. I'm far from a gold digger. That should be obvious to him by now considering he has only worked 4 months in the last 2 years. I really like your idea about the apology letter though. He has never held himself accountable for any of his bad behavior. I'd be willing to drop the inheritance in exchange for an acceptable 3 paragraph apology letter. He's so self righteous - it would kill him!

And yes, LongWalk, we live in a relatively small town.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> You had me at.... I might have a really nice fishing boat.


A fishing boat with naked parties included?


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

My wife used to uhhhh help break in every boat we purchased before it hit the water. That stopped a few years ago. I should have known!!!!

I've asked for three things since day one - reasonable custody, reasonable child support and reasonable settlement. I finally learned a few weeks ago it's all wasted breath. The best thing each of us can do is ignore them, get the best settlement we can and move on.

My life is out there and I'm going to go get it. I'm focused on my kids first, but in a few years they'll get to decide where they want to live.

Your husband sounds like a few of the guys I've known over the years. Notice I don't say friend - just guy. They can't be happy with one woman, they can't think of anyone else first, they can't understand someone else's point of view. BUT they have looks, charisma, charm and it works for them in the way it works - but not in a lasting meaningful way.

Find a man, and you will, that is a man. A confident, caring person that would get between you and an attacker. A guy that loves you more than himself. A guy that you know is a role model and makes you a better person.

A few years ago my wife and I drove into almost horrible accident. My first reaction was to shield her as I drove through a big wreck in front of us, I really thought we'd hit head on. I reminded her of that when she said she didn't love me. She didn't even remember it. Funny how that made me mad. Without one second to think I was willing to put myself between her and harm. THAT's the guy I want my daughters to meet, not the one that has charm. I want the guy that has sand. (Sounds better if John Wayne says it).


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LBHmidwest said:


> My wife used to uhhhh help break in every boat we purchased before it hit the water. That stopped a few years ago. I should have known!!!!
> 
> I've asked for three things since day one - reasonable custody, reasonable child support and reasonable settlement. I finally learned a few weeks ago it's all wasted breath. The best thing each of us can do is ignore them, get the best settlement we can and move on.
> 
> ...


Thanks LBH. I went to an IC session yesterday and my therapist gave me some of the same advice regarding the next man in my life. She said you have to have a ying and yang match. She also said she wasn't supposed to give advice but advised I stay single until the work on myself is far more advanced than it is now. I totally agreed with her.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Three paragraphs is way too long.

"I cheated on you, my faithful wife. In truth, I wasn't ready for marriage and I failed you. Sorry for all the pain I caused you. Thank you for contesting the inheritance money, I need it to pay for years of IC."

Do you have girlfriends and family who are helping you get through this?


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

I chose 3 paragraphs for a reason. He's not very smart. He'd mentally strain himself to death before coming up with 3 apologetic paragraphs. Death was my main objective.

I have girlfriends and family that are helping me through this when I express a need for it. Many people in my support system have fallen on hard times themselves so I try not to impose my situation on them. That's one of the reasons I've found TAM.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

ICLH said:


> I chose 3 paragraphs for a reason. He's not very smart. He'd mentally strain himself to death before coming up with 3 apologetic paragraphs. Death was my main objective.


An excellent idea but I'd take the inheritance instead. It would really kill him because he's so selfish. Besides the letter could be written for him to give to you.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> He's not very smart.


Time to combine your DNA with someone bright (and capable of empathy).

Does he tell the same stories about the athletic high points of his life?


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> Time to combine your DNA with someone bright (and capable of empathy).
> 
> Does he tell the same stories about the athletic high points of his life?


LOL! OMG. All the time. And the athletic high points of his life were over with almost 20 years ago.


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## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Where I live we call that "D2 All American"

Basically think of Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite in the smallest school class

ICLH - I don't say anything lightly. ALL of us here are hurt and pained from rejection. On this of all days the best part of our spouse was their capacity for love and romance.

Even that is gone now.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

ICLH said:


> LOL! OMG. All the time. And the athletic high points of his life were over with almost 20 years ago.


Now he'll have a new story to tell: the ex from h€ll. Only problem with the story is the cheating footnote. Also, he is probably not going to find another woman to replace you. The ex from h€ll story is going to scare off the normal gals but he is not the type to notice the effect.

You were way too accomodating and it failed. Now you know about boundaries.

How can I tell you so much about your stbx? I am a guy: I am dysfunctional. I recognize the pattens now. Some dysfunctional people get their heads straight but it is a long process and the success rate is not high.

There was a woman, Mavash, who left TAM but she was a genius. A person could quote their BPD spouse and she could interpret crazy into English. It was amazing.

One thing that you can shoot for now... it will take time, is eventual closure. Someday his failures won't sting so much. Keep posting. We love naked parties. 

You need to love yourself. You need to forgive yourself for believing you could change him. His cheating hurt but when he stopped being loving that was already terrible. The loneliness must have been a secret for a long while already.

This isn't exactly a love song but it shows how smart people can be deceived.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

LongWalk - thanks for the song link. Kind of ironic considering the theme song played at our wedding was a Beatles song - All You Need is Love. The wedding coordinators chose it for us. The Beatles theory has been proven untrue. I went through today and started disposing of any evidence of our memories together. Came across our wedding photos which made me disappointed and sad. The day that this picture was taken was on our wedding day and I would have never imagined that day would have turned into what I feel like today. 

But you are right, LongWalk, and my IC session last night confirms more of what you've said. I need to forgive myself and acknowledge the failures I contributed to the relationship. I was too accommodating. I put myself in a caretaker role something which stems from some childhood traumas according to my therapist. I was so accommodating in fact that I wasn't true to myself and I lost myself in the relationship. I used it as a distraction. The focus was always on him and I was lonely. You are right. I was lonely for a long time and ignored those feelings by working all the time or doing something for him. Always hoping I'd be acknowledged. When I decided to go back to school he told me he fully supported me in my decision. He said he had done everything he had wanted to do and he was very content with married life and that the focus would be on me and my pursuits now. I was taken aback by that and fast forward a month after that statement he started sabotaging my efforts almost as if he hated that my attention was not focused solely on him anymore. Like my therapist said a couple needs to be like ying and yang. The only way to be in a relationship with him was if he was the full on ying yang. Some closure would be nice but I don't believe I'll get it. I did learn a lesson from all of this and I want be repeating it again. Now is my time. I'm working on reinventing myself. I'd be nice if I could fast forward a year but I just have to take it one day at a time.


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

On a side note, I got a piece of advice from the therapist last night that I think we can all apply to ourselves. She said that you can't let the FAILURE of the marriage or any relationship be used to DEFINE yourself. The failure of the marriage and the relationship is in the past and is not an extension of who you are now in life. It's true. I feel like I walk around everyday with a sign over my head that says, "I'm a woman that contributed to a failed marriage" but realistically I'm not. I'm a woman that is moving on.


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## Pictureless (May 21, 2013)

ICLH said:


> On a side note, I got a piece of advice from the therapist last night that I think we can all apply to ourselves. She said that you can't let the FAILURE of the marriage or any relationship be used to DEFINE yourself. The failure of the marriage and the relationship is in the past and is not an extension of who you are now in life. It's true. I feel like I walk around everyday with a sign over my head that says, "I'm a woman that contributed to a failed marriage" but realistically I'm not. I'm a woman that is moving on.


So much emotions and head shrinking. I don't know about you but I'm getting tired off this now.

Just got home from dinner with my divorce meet-up group. Four of us; three rejected spouses, one walk away. What a great time. I can't wait to go again. There's no point in moping because what's his/her name ain't coming back. And if they did, who'd want them after the way they acted?

I'm wishing my love, whom i haven't met yet, a happy and great Valentines Day! Until then I wish me and you all great Friday night.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

My dad has Alzheimer's. I have taken care of him to give my mom some breaks. Never thought I'd have to be giving my own father a bath and helping him but diapers on. It's tough coping with the emotional hole.

When I was a kid my father was very needy. He made everybody jump. My mother had to accept all sorts of nonsense from him. Eventually she gain power in their relationship but partly because he was declining mentally. Alzheimer's is gradual. My father is very grateful towards her now. But he is also not there. He is a forgetful chlld whose existence depends on her kindness entirely.

You have seen this over and over. Some people give until they collapse. Some give and some how get stronger. The latter is better but how do you achieve that?

You are going to start being nice to yourself. Getting your college degree is one big step. Remember that the idea of you having that degree bothered him. He could not see himself with the more successful you. He did not want to contribute to that growth, although he could have grown with you. He is satisfied being stuck.

Going NC was the right thing to do. All the days during which he kept hoping you'd move out and disappear, wow, what an self centered jerk. When you did leave at last one day he missed you. He may reach out desparately again. You need to be certain that you are strong so that you don't get sucked in again. 

Right now I am into a CA band. Here is the song they wrote for you. It might make you cry. I am sorry for that. But it is a beautiful song and you have to believe that you are deserving. If only life were like an Apple store and we could take go and meet a genius who would say, "Oh, your marriage is less than two years old, so you get a new one. Sorry about the first one: our bad."


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## ICLH (Dec 26, 2013)

Yea, too bad life isn't like an Apple Store. My marriage was short but my relationship lasted 5 years. I don't know why the idea of me getting a BA bothered him when he already had one himself. I was a college graduate when I met him. Anything I ever did to better myself bothered him though. If anything it would have benefited our marriage. It would put me in a higher pay bracket. Whatever. I have a feeling that he will reach at to me again at some point. I'm strong enough to stick with the 180. I often think if I would have answered the phone how the conversation would have gone. There isn't one word that I could think of to say to him. Not one. So therefore, I will not answer nor do I want to. I love Mazzy Starr, by the way. Did you just now discover that band? 

I know all about Alzheimer's. I've worked with Alzheimer's and dementia patients for over 2 years now. I've had family members tell me that their relationships with their loved one's sometimes improve after they get Alzheimer's. If the person was cold and mean when they where younger, for some, their personality will flop. They become loving and kind after getting the disease but it's because their brain is slowly deteriorating. Some people, especially sons and daughters, will ignore the effects of the disease and suck up all the love and kindness that was withheld from them for the majority of their lives. They're desperate for that acceptance and are finally getting it. Diseased love is better than no love at all for some. Like I'm one to talk. 

My heart goes out to you and your family, LongWalk. My family is going through it as well. I watch my grandma for 5-8 hours a day - 7 days a week. She has Alzheimer's and she isn't in the financial position to be put in a facility so my family rotates shifts on taking care of her. She can't live alone anymore. It's hard for me to watch her go through this because she was so independent. When I help her go to the bathroom she sits there and cries and tells me she doesn't understand what is wrong with her. If I can, I have to leave the room to cry because she will feed off my emotions. You've got to be positive around them. Alzheimer's disease is sickening. I've watched people wither away and take their last breath from it right in front of me. Fortunately, researchers are putting more of an emphasis on the importance of finding a cure so we should be seeing some break-through in the next several years. Anyway, I just got off on a rant. Sorry.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I learned of Mazzy Star from LostLove77 on TAM.
_Posted via Mobile Device_

Are you still hanging out on TAM?


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hope you're having a good weekend!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Naked party? The worlds clumsiest pass at you or a naked party like some college kids do?


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