# Disturbing couples therapy session



## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I have had a very troubled marriage. I have been advised to leave many times. Instead I got my DH to therapy. He's going to individual counseling and so am I... we are also seeing a couples therapist. 

So far - I have been stunned. I just want someone to tell me their reaction to this. Last night, the entire session my 38 year old husband cried about remembering an incident in kindergarden when he wet his pants in class. He sobbed - saying he could smell the urine as if he were still there. He said it was an incident he hadn't recalled in years and years - but it brings him to tears. When I asked "why" this was so disturbing to him - the therapist jumped in and said that "why" questions are controling and judgemental and I wasn't allowed to cross that "boundary". So I had to repeat what he was saying to me. "you are telling me that it's very disturbing to you that you wet your pants in kindergarden" You are saying this makes you feel vulerable. You are saying that you don't understand how this effects you so deeply - but it does. 

He ended the session by saying he was so happy to let me see this vulnerable side to him - as he cried over this incident of wetting his pants in kindergarden. Seriously, I may be heartless - but I felt NO empathy for him. I felt pity. I felt like I was on candid camera. At one point I had to fake cough because I felt it was absolutely so ridiculous. I have been through so many tough times in my life and childhood. To sit around (at 150 an hour) and cry about wetting my pants in kindergarden sounds insane to me.

Am I wrong? Should I be more compassionate? I just don't feel anything but shock and the REAL NEED to run from this marriage. I feel like my husband is emotionally a :sleeping:child.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

That sounds like it was a good session. Your husband trusted you. Stay with it if you love him and want it to work. You might have some moments like that, what will you want from him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Btw....all of us carry emotionally vulnerable little children inside of us, not just your husband.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Your husband opened up in therapy, took a risk, told you one of his deepest fears, and tried to grow. He chose to let you in on something about him that was obvious very hard for him to admit and convey.

Up to you whether you want to grow with him. When it's your turn to be the troubled one, you can only hope he will not judge your demons from the past like you are doing here.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thanks for your insight. I think my problem is that he has done so much to hurt me over the past year -- he forced me to tell my parents that I was raped as a teenager (even though I told him I did not want to) ... he told my mother that he thought i was cheating on him (i wasn't and they aren't even close). Those 2 things made my parents disown me and my dad died just weeks after that happened and I never got to set the record straight with him because my husband chose to sabatoge me. 

I just have a hard time sitting there listening to him cry over wetting his pants when I have had to deal with the death of my dad and being told I wasn't welcome at his funeral because my DH manipulated me. I am so resentful...that maybe this is a sign that I have no compassion left for him ....after being hurt so badly.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Well you don't sound empathetic to him in the least.

If you have already checked out of the marriage, there is no point in doing marriage counselling. 

Don't string him along if you have already decided.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

You have certainly been through a lot... but really, he can't "force" you to tell your parents something if you have appropriate boundaries, he didn't disown you, and he is not responsible for your dad dying. The cheating accusation is a bit over the top IMO, but people react irrationally if they believe they are being cheated on or if the marriage is in danger. That seems something that is forgivable over time, at least to me.

Maybe it would be better to continue your IC and work on yourself a bit for a while. And yes, you should go if you really think you are checked out.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Boy, maybe I am a cold hearted person. I just saw this whole thing as odd. He's obviously trying to do some work in therapy and I can't understand him. Is it too late? Will I ever come around? I don't know.... i'm not purposely stringing him along. I am just hoping that there will be a time where I will understand that we can make it work. But, maybe it's not possible. 

No I'm not empathetic to someone who kicked our son in the rib cage - had CPS investigate - among other things. I just don't know how to feel sorry for him on something so common in childhood.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> Thanks for your insight. I think my problem is that he has done so much to hurt me over the past year -- he forced me to tell my parents that I was raped as a teenager (even though I told him I did not want to) ... he told my mother that he thought i was cheating on him (i wasn't and they aren't even close). Those 2 things made my parents disown me and my dad died just weeks after that happened and I never got to set the record straight with him because my husband chose to sabatoge me.
> 
> I just have a hard time sitting there listening to him cry over wetting his pants when I have had to deal with the death of my dad and being told I wasn't welcome at his funeral because my DH manipulated me. I am so resentful...that maybe this is a sign that I have no compassion left for him ....after being hurt so badly.


I think this says more about you and your current frame of mind than anything else. I think you need to heal a bit and deal with your hurts before having compassion for your husband.
I do have to say I'm kind of cold like you. So many people come through horrible childhood tragedies like abuse, neglect etc., that I probably too would think, 'you gotta be f'ing kidding me!'. I would have to remove MYSELF from the situation and realize what hurts other doesn't necessarily hurt me. As far as your situation, why did he force you to tell parents about the raping?
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, he told my mom he thought I was cheating on him. She was visiting. So, when he finally pulled me in the bedroom to confront me - I told him he was flat out wrong. He said well then you need to go out there and explain this to your mother because I told her. I freaked out. I asked why. He said he had no one else to talk to. I said you could have talked to ME! He said he was too upset. (Even though he just came back from grocery shopping). Well, when I went out there he said if you don't talk to her about it - then I think we should talk to her about everything you've hidden from her. I told him over and over - over the years that since my abuser was a close friend of theirs...I could NEVER tell them because they would never believe me. He knew this. I told him this again -- but when we sat down at the table he said "she has something to tell you, Mom". And I told her that I did not cheat on him - that he was panicing...etc. He said that's not all -- tell her about "the man's name". Instantly my mom said WHAT? WHAT. Yes I guess I should have..and could have ..said No and walked away. But I felt like my mom wouldn't have believed me about not cheating - if I didn't tell her about my abuse. 

From there - my mom definitely went into denial. She called my dad and told him - and was laughing on the phone about how crazy I had become. I instantly became a liar - cheater - and she even suggested that my son shouldn't be around me. My DH did nothing to help me at this point.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

firsttimer25 said:


> No I'm not empathetic to *someone who kicked our son in the rib cage* - had CPS investigate - among other things. I just don't know how to feel sorry for him on something so common in childhood.


Then why are you still with him? Why subject your son to that kind of abuse? It makes you the enabler. And it makes your son an innocent victim.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

This whole thread is confusing to me.

OP - I can't tell if you are airing all kinds of laundry until enough people validate the decision to leave, or if you are in a much more seriously abusive situation than you realize.

Keep working on you and keep posting - wish you the best.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Acorn said:


> OP - I can't tell if you are airing all kinds of laundry until enough people validate the decision to leave,.


That's how I was reading it and still am. 

Then she mentioned her husband harmed her son. I have zero empathy for someone who stands by idly letting their child be abused. It's sickening to me. I feel bad for the child who can't defend themself.


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

firsttimer25 said:


> No I'm not empathetic to someone who kicked our son in the rib cage - had CPS investigate - among other things.


This would be the deal breaker for me. There would be no other discussion of any other marital problems until this issue was addressed. I would pack up and leave. 

I am with you, I would not be able to sympathize with someone about their own childhood who is currently ruining his own son's childhood.

It sounds like he needs to go to some counseling sessions on his own for a little while to work through some of his childhood issues and maybe some anger management as well.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, just like the situation I presented here about his pants wetting accident--I was unsure if I was overreacting.

He said that it was a "relex" because it happened after my DH was accidently hit in the groin by our son. My son (4 at the time) was crawling around on the couch and got my DH in the groin. My DH said he had a "reflex" and he kicked our son in the ribcage. My son couldn't breathe. He had the wind knocked out of him. I picked him up and carried him out of the room - and my DH did NOT run over and see if everything was ok. He just said "that's why you don't step on daddy". 

The therapist bought the "reflex" story. But I didn't know what to think. I've seen my DH push my son back when getting his foot stepped on accidentally before...but never that aggressively. I always spotted that anger on his face though... 

Since the therapy began ...I have seen a noticable change in my DH. He is very very careful. He is obviously scared of me now....considering I raised such an issue about it and that CPS came out. But, CPS just said don't let it happen again...and did nothing else. 

I obviously was left confused. Was it on purpose? Therapist saw how it could be a reflex. He has gone to therapy and I have seem all aggressive behavior come to a hault. 

What would you do...? You see why I have been trying to have hope - since he is embracing therapy?


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## Kricket (May 10, 2011)

I have two small children and my husband gets kneed, kicked and punched down there all of the time. He has never reacted in a way to hurt the children. I will admit that I usually remove them from him so they don't make it worse, but he usually just clams up in a protective fetal position for a minute while I laugh about it.

I will admit that people react differently to pain and I don't know how a man feels when he gets injured in that area, but I do believe that restraint from hurting innocent children can be obtained even in pain. It does bother me that he didn't get upset with himself for hurting his child it was indeed a reflex reaction.

Would it be possible for you to see your own therapist since this one does not seem to be helping you at all?


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am actually seeing my own therapist. In fact I am going today. She just keeps saying that I need to figure out what it's going to take to get me to leave... 

She didn't think this "reflex" should cause him to hurt our son. She encouraged me to call CPS. Then a couple of months ago - he started having road rage in the car with me and our son in the backseat. He started chasing someone who wouldn't let him merge. It lasted over a minute until I got him to finally stop chasing.. that's what prompted this last chance from me. I said - either get help - or we are gone. So he is getting help.... but our couples therapist said NOTHING to him about that incident. She just took notes.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Perhaps you should come out with everything instead of trickle-truth. That way people won't fall into a trap with their advice.
So basically, your husband was trying to work on himself in therapy, and instead of trying to help the situation, you rolled your eyes and acted like a snot. 
I have been through that behavior before and it frankly pisses me off. Like when I am spurting blood from a wound and someone says "Jeez ya wuss, that's only going to be 30 stitches". Well thanks for the empathy...NOT.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

maybe you are right. I just don't see it that way - a snot? I really just felt like this was childhood incident was the least of our problems. I definitely did not roll my eyes. I acted the empathetic part. But I came here to voice my feelings. I'm sorry if I am lacking the right compassion. Clearly there's a lot of water under the bridge.


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## JJG (Mar 9, 2011)

FT, if it makes you feel better I agree with you. I am of the "just get over it" personality type. People sometimes tell me i can be cold, but i see it as dealing with life without whining about every bad thing that happens.

You have a very complicated situation, to which i can only say "good luck".

I just wanted to jump in and say that it isnt wrong that you dont empathise, you just deal with things in a different way, therefore are finding it hard to see where he is coming from.

Your


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> maybe you are right. I just don't see it that way - a snot? I really just felt like this was childhood incident was the least of our problems. I definitely did not roll my eyes. I acted the empathetic part. But I came here to voice my feelings. I'm sorry if I am lacking the right compassion. Clearly there's a lot of water under the bridge.


I apologize for the comment. it sort of provoked memories from when I was younger. I remember getting assaulted once, and in defending myself, I broke my hand on the other guy's face. When I got home, I was screamed at for getting into a fight, and it took 2 hours and a temper tantrum to get my parents to take me to the doctor because mo mother thought I was a ***** and I couldn't possibly have an injury. This has been a recurring theme in my life regarding physical and emotional hurts. I tend to keep things to myself now, because I really don't dig getting mocked over pain. I have been stabbed, beaten and sexually and emotionally abused and I feel I am strong enough to handle it, but one of the few buttons to push that can get my visibly upset is getting mocked over something painful.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

A reflex? I don't think so. Sounds like an excuse to me.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

stillme4you said:


> A reflex? I don't think so. Sounds like an excuse to me.


The defense rests your honor.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well, thank you again for understanding. I definitely have a very complicated situation. I actually posted awhile back under a different name and I couldn't find my log in - so this account is only a few months old. Would it be ok if I did a longer summary of all that I've been through with my DH to get your perspectives? As one poster here said - there's a lot of smart people here and I really would love to hear how they would react to my situation. I am always someone who questions themselves. To a fault actually - so I would really appreciate some of your insight. Please understand this is difficult.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

He could very well be manipulating the couples therapist---I have seen that happen in my own marriage, it's extremely frustrating.
You're in individual counseling. 
HE also should be.
He has anger and impulse control issues. Definitely good that he's seeking help.
But it might help more if he does so in an individual setting, not MC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> Well, thank you again for understanding. I definitely have a very complicated situation. I actually posted awhile back under a different name and I couldn't find my log in - so this account is only a few months old. Would it be ok if I did a longer summary of all that I've been through with my DH to get your perspectives? As one poster here said - there's a lot of smart people here and I really would love to hear how they would react to my situation. I am always someone who questions themselves. To a fault actually - so I would really appreciate some of your insight. Please understand this is difficult.


His reaction to peeing - do you think it was something traumatizing to him or did you feel it to be insincere? What was rest of his childhood like? From my past, I too would not believe someone would have such a strong reaction to something so normal.
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

My individual therapist asked me the sane thing today. Was he being sincere? I really don't know. I saw real tears but I honestly was so stunned that I couldn't judge. He had this accident. He did not tell anyone. He never got into trouble. Apparently it air dried. So if no one knew... Could it really be that tough over 30 years later? 

This is the same man who said he wanted to be put to sleep with our dogs, because they tried to attack our infant son at the time... And i insisted they live as outdoor dogs because i didn't trust them around the baby anymore. He said no one could take care of the dogs Like he could so he wanted them put to sleep and he wanted to go to sleep with them. 

You see... I just don't know how he could cry over this kindergarten incident and then ... When discussing the dog attack incident with his SON... Not say a word and reprimand me for bringing up old stuff i'n this therapy session. 






golfergirl said:


> His reaction to peeing - do you think it was something traumatizing to him or did you feel it to be insincere? What was rest of his childhood like? From my past, I too would not believe someone would have such a strong reaction to something so normal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Well, instead of being all wierded out by him being so emotional over a typical childhood incident, you could swallow your disgust, and muster up enough compassion to say, "Hon, don't you know that a lot of kids do that? That's nothing to feel this ashamed about. That is totally normal for a child to do." and that way you kindly show him that he is making a mountain out of a mole-hill...but seriously, aside from that. Kicking your kid in the ribs? That is something to focus on right there.


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## mr.miketastic (Aug 5, 2010)

Ok. How about looking at it this way? Since you would not be affected by something like he described, perhaps you should take his torment over it at face value and think about something that caused you great embarrassment? It is often difficult to shift perspectives to look at a situation from another's view.
Also, the dog incident happened when? Was it a number of years ago? Is it a recurring topic when there is an argument that puts him automatically on the defensive?


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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

You need to leave. First, as a person who was abused in childhood and couldn't tell, NO ONE has a right to tell you that you have to let that secret out. You will hold the resentment for him for hurting not only you, but something that hurt your parents and caused them to disown you. I am sure you are deeply hurt that they did not believe you, but they did not have enough time to process the information that was given to them before your father passed and you feel the void from that. He was totally out of line for bringing that up.

As far as your child is concerned, you are his advocate. You were there and it does not sound like you believe it to be a reflex at all. It concerned you so much that you called CPS. What does that say to you?

Finally, if this is what made your husband feel better in therapy,kudos to him. But like you, I am thinking you are kidding me??? You have a history of abuse, he falsely believes your cheating on him, doesn't sound as if he has any friends and his biggest trauma is he peed his pants in kindergarten?? I am afraid I would have walked out and told the therapist why I wasn't paying for that session!
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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

I may be cold hearted too, but I wouldn't empathize either. I didn't empathize with him by just reading your first post, and after reading what an a$$ he is, I def. don't empathize with him. 

He is a manipulator and is manipulating the therapist. Believe me, I have lived with a manipulator for over 13yrs now and they know how to read people and adjust their attitudes accordingly (they can do this even only knowing the person for a short period of time). 

You are justified in thinking...puhleeeze get over it already!


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

Also, my man tried to tell my family of 'things' he perceived me to be doing behind his back. One of my sisters is easily manipulated, and he figured this would be the case for my other sister and my mother...he was wrong. My mother is excellent in pointing out manipulations and basically told him to take his BS elsewhere. My mom taught me about manipulators since she was married to one. Funny how i ended up with one...go figure!

Your H succeeded in his mission to separate you from your parents. He is doing the same with your MC, painting you as the 'evil' one. He is toxic to you (and child)...let him go.

wishing you the best
Stumble


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

stumblealong said:


> I may be cold hearted too, but I wouldn't empathize either. I didn't empathize with him by just reading your first post, and after reading what an a$$ he is, I def. don't empathize with him.
> 
> He is a manipulator and is manipulating the therapist. Believe me, I have lived with a manipulator for over 13yrs now and they know how to read people and adjust their attitudes accordingly (they can do this even only knowing the person for a short period of time).
> 
> You are justified in thinking...puhleeeze get over it already!


Maybe I'm cold-hearted beeyotch too but I can think of my most embarassing incident from childhood or the birthday party I wasn't invited to and I'm over it! Ask me about the time my son skinned his knee and I tear up. But that's him not me. But unless there's more - to have him tear up over that but not over your son shows some mental disorder. I think you've had a tough life and sometimes when you are living in the crap you don't realize how off things are until someone points it out to you. What he's doing to your son is wrong. Can you remove yourself from the situation for few weeks to get new perspective what life is like not around him? I believe he knew what he was doing with your mom and purpose was to alienate her from your life and erode your support system.
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

You could be right. But what if he is being honest? It is possible. It appeared to be real tears. Maybe for him .. It was real. Maybe that was his selfish way of finding emotion i'n a normally emotionless life. I do believe the past events are proof that he had the ability to be that manipulative. 

I have just seen and dealt with so much with him, i just can't help but think this is all an act.

To answer the question regarding this as possible repeat "default" behavior... No we have never discussed either of these incidents with this marriage counselor. He is going to his individual therapist weekly. Maybe he has talked about that there. 

I feel so torn today. Part of me feels cold hearted for not caring about his tears i'n therapy... And the other side makes me want to tell him to take his sob story to the curb because it takes some nerve to cry about that... When he clearly could care less about putting me 60k i'n debt and then asking me to file bankruptcy. 

Like i said earlier.. There's a lot more to my story. I make a lot more than he does... And when i tried to stop him from spending too much he called his elderly and mentally unstable parents for money. Told them we needed more than 10k asap and he got it even though he and i agreed that he would NOT ask them for anything... 





stumblealong said:


> Also, my man tried to tell my family of 'things' he perceived me to be doing behind his back. One of my sisters is easily manipulated, and he figured this would be the case for my other sister and my mother...he was wrong. My mother is excellent in pointing out manipulations and basically told him to take his BS elsewhere. My mom taught me about manipulators since she was married to one. Funny how i ended up with one...go figure!
> 
> Your H succeeded in his mission to separate you from your parents. He is doing the same with your MC, painting you as the 'evil' one. He is toxic to you (and child)...let him go.
> 
> ...


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

You have been very kind, golfergirl. Thank you. You bring up a good point. 
Yes i could leave but i just wondered if it was justified since he is trying to get help. I've never seen him commit to therapy for this long. Thus therapist is definitely i'n his corner, so it helps get him there! 
The other odd thing about this situation is my husband says he was raped by a man when he was 25. Said he got too drunk and the man had sex with him while he was i'n and out of passing out. But he remembers moving from different rooms ... And having sex all night. He did not file charges. This came up after we were married. He has gotten therapy for that. He says all the shame is gone and he even told his parents about it. Frankly i think the whole thing is odd, but I'm not to judge. However he has never cried about that. I've never seen him do anything but talk about it. So maybe he misplaced his tears? I just don't know. 




golfergirl said:


> Maybe I'm cold-hearted beeyotch too but I can think of my most embarassing incident from childhood or the birthday party I wasn't invited to and I'm over it! Ask me about the time my son skinned his knee and I tear up. But that's him not me. But unless there's more - to have him tear up over that but not over your son shows some mental disorder. I think you've had a tough life and sometimes when you are living in the crap you don't realize how off things are until someone points it out to you. What he's doing to your son is wrong. Can you remove yourself from the situation for few weeks to get new perspective what life is like not around him? I believe he knew what he was doing with your mom and purpose was to alienate her from your life and erode your support system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## stumblealong (Jun 30, 2010)

golfergirl said:


> I think you've had a tough life and sometimes when you are living in the crap you don't realize how off things are until someone points it out to you. I believe he knew what he was doing with your mom and purpose was to alienate her from your life and erode your support system.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

He can cry tears for himself only. He didn't care about hurting your son. No tears there! He didn't care about trying to mend things with your parents (like tell them the truth!) He took sides with the dog that was going to attack his son. He EMPATHIZED with a animal over his own child. Don't get me wrong i am an animal advocate, but if one is going to harm my child, there is no mistake on whose side i'm going to take.

Maybe he should get an oscar for the pee pants act! Is that all he could come up with for a childhood trauma! lucky for him! Sorry, I know i sound harsh. Just wanting to open your eyes to the man you are with. You are trying to see his vulnerable side, but my gut is telling me it's just not there.


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

stumblealong said:


> :iagree:
> 
> He can cry tears for himself only. He didn't care about hurting your son. No tears there! He didn't care about trying to mend things with your parents (like tell them the truth!) He took sides with the dog that was going to attack his son. He EMPATHIZED with a animal over his own child. Don't get me wrong i am an animal advocate, but if one is going to harm my child, there is no mistake on whose side i'm going to take.
> 
> Maybe he should get an oscar for the pee pants act! Is that all he could come up with for a childhood trauma! lucky for him! Sorry, I know i sound harsh. Just wanting to open your eyes to the man you are with. You are trying to see his vulnerable side, but my gut is telling me it's just not there.


Unless for himself! When I said get away, I meant few weeks just to see what a relaxed life could be like.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

You know, i don't know the answer to this but i will admit that every time i am out of town for a day or two by myself i am so much more relaxed and calm. 

My dh and i don't fight often but i am often finding relief when i am alone. What's crazy is that being alone is also one of my greatest fears i'n this. 

But take this for example. I went to bed last night. I had to be up for work i'n 4 hours. I turned on the ceiling fan, air conditioner (of course) and i opened a sliding door about 2 inches with the screen intact. I just wanted fresh air. Well, i was going to close it i'n five minutes but i fell asleep instead. My dh came i'n about 2 hours later and immediately started swearing because he could see i left the patio door cracked. He woke me up and started balling me out because he said snakes or raccoons might have gotten i'n. Again the screen was intact. He was so ticked. This morning he called me at work and said i shouldn't have done that because he has told me before never to open that door. That's the kind of stuff that creates tension. 

I'm sure the couple therapist would say i disrespected him by doing that when i knew he didn't like it... But i live there too. I have a right to fresh air right? I am sorry i fell asleep but did he really need to wake me? 



golfergirl said:


> Unless for himself! When I said get away, I meant few weeks just to see what a relaxed life could be like.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

That is totally ridiculous! All that for a sliding door cracked open for fresh air? And calling you at work to boot? That is like, control freak type stuff and the therapist is happy to get your money and keep you coming back so yeah he's going to side with him. Get a new therapist, and/or get out!


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Well his complaint was that he has a terribl fear of roaches and he felt i could have drawn them i'n since we live on a creek i'n the south. But still... 

Again the therapist told me i should have respected my dh's wishes. Counselor really tells me I'm not allowed to ask him why he has feelings.. She also told me i'n his presence that telling him wetting his pants as a child was something a lot of kids go through (my father joked about it happening to him for all his life) was disrespectful and revealed that i did not take his concerns seriously. She was upset with me for saying that... Even though i said it i'n a compassionate way. 

UOTE=stillme4you;363028]That is totally ridiculous! All that for a sliding door cracked open for fresh air? And calling you at work to boot? That is like, control freak type stuff and the therapist is happy to get your money and keep you coming back so yeah he's going to side with him. Get a new therapist, and/or get out![/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> Well his complaint was that he has a terribl fear of roaches and he felt i could have drawn them i'n since we live on a creek i'n the south. But still...
> 
> Again the therapist told me i should have respected my dh's wishes. Counselor really tells me I'm not allowed to ask him why he has feelings.. She also told me i'n his presence that telling him wetting his pants as a child was something a lot of kids go through (my father joked about it happening to him for all his life) was disrespectful and revealed that i did not take his concerns seriously. She was upset with me for saying that... Even though i said it i'n a compassionate way.
> 
> UOTE=stillme4you;363028]That is totally ridiculous! All that for a sliding door cracked open for fresh air? And calling you at work to boot? That is like, control freak type stuff and the therapist is happy to get your money and keep you coming back so yeah he's going to side with him. Get a new therapist, and/or get out!


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Maybe she should treat him for his irrational fear of roaches? He hit pay dirt finding a therapist that sides with him all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

If you folks were me... What would you do? Would you leave? Stay i'n therapy?
Divorce? I am 36 and would love to have more children but I'm scared to do that with him....


UOTE=golfergirl;363151]_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Maybe she should treat him for his irrational fear of roaches? He hit pay dirt finding a therapist that sides with him all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> If you folks were me... What would you do? Would you leave? Stay i'n therapy?
> Divorce? I am 36 and would love to have more children but I'm scared to do that with him....
> 
> 
> UOTE=golfergirl;363151]_Posted via Mobile Device_


Maybe she should treat him for his irrational fear of roaches? He hit pay dirt finding a therapist that sides with him all the time.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

Only you can answer that. I know no one would hurt my child even as a 'reflex'. I know I had my last baby at 42 years of age. I know you don't deserve this. Search 'Uptown's' threads on BPD and see if it fits your H.
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## CLucas976 (Jun 27, 2010)

absolutely ridiculous!

I have seen this out of my own stbx. the crocodile tears and fake care and concern. what I don't get is why it is not appropriate to ask why a wetting pants story hurts him so, part of dealing with things that hurt you is actually dealing with them and understanding why it affected you the way it did and how to deal with that feeling and move past it..

I'd have walked out of that therapy session, and walk out of that marriage. He clearly doesn't take it seriously, and it'll probably be your fault when you leave for "abandoning him"

It is truly amazing the amount of people a manipulator can pull into their little bs when they actually try, even more amazing that they'd rather try for that, than try to save their marriage by real efforts.

ditch him.

cold heartless *****, out.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Thank God i am not crazy. I was starting to wonder why i felt so heartless toward him. You know he made this statement "it feels so good to be vulnerable with you" and i thought it sounded like it was out of a text book. Unless he's truly changing... That is not how my dh talks or acts. Never!

I need help getting the strength to leave. So thank you for your thoughts and support. I'm grateful. And if i am wrong please call me on it... I just think it's time i start thinking of myself. 

OTE=CLucas976;363256]absolutely ridiculous!

I have seen this out of my own stbx. the crocodile tears and fake care and concern. what I don't get is why it is not appropriate to ask why a wetting pants story hurts him so, part of dealing with things that hurt you is actually dealing with them and understanding why it affected you the way it did and how to deal with that feeling and move past it..

I'd have walked out of that therapy session, and walk out of that marriage. He clearly doesn't take it seriously, and it'll probably be your fault when you leave for "abandoning him"

It is truly amazing the amount of people a manipulator can pull into their little bs when they actually try, even more amazing that they'd rather try for that, than try to save their marriage by real efforts.

ditch him.

cold heartless *****, out. [/QUOTE]
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

This may sound complicated but i recalled something today that revealed my husband wasn't truthful i'n therapy. Two sessions ago she asked him why he was fearful to step up or speak up. He said "i don't know". On the way home i asked him if he could think of anything. He said no. I said maybe i'n your childhood? He said no. Nothing. I started talking about my first memory as a child. I tried to lead kids out of kindergarten on first day to head home . That's when HE started talking about wetting his pants. He was not emotional. Kind of laughed about it. One session ago i asked i'n therapy where he was on answering that question. He got quiet. He said it made him emotional. Well i was thinking about that during last night's session. He went on and on about how this was such a distressing thought that made him emotional. He said that it was his first thought about why he might be scared to speak up. But i'n fact that's not true. I actually got him to think about it on the way home. So this whole thing was based on inaccuracies. I asked him about that tonight. He said you know... I guess you are right? He then asked ME why i thought this made him so emotional? I said nope. Remember the therapist said i can't ask why. You need to figure that out. 




firsttimer25 said:


> Thank God i am not crazy. I was starting to wonder why i felt so heartless toward him. You know he made this statement "it feels so good to be vulnerable with you" and i thought it sounded like it was out of a text book. Unless he's truly changing... That is not how my dh talks or acts. Never!
> 
> I need help getting the strength to leave. So thank you for your thoughts and support. I'm grateful. And if i am wrong please call me on it... I just think it's time i start thinking of myself.
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I talked to my DH at length tonight. First, he is still upset with me for not respecting his wishes about opening the patio door. He said that i wasn't doing as he asked. I told him i had a right to fresh air, and he said not if i told you i don't want you to because I'm worried you will attract roaches. 

Then i told him he woke me over this... When he knew i had to be at work i'n a couple of hours and only got 2 hours of sleep. (i have to go to bed around 9:30 because i have to be at work at 4am). He said well you don't think you wake ne up when you go to work? I said i didn't know That, i will go back to sleeping i'n the spare room because it will help us both. I wake up everynight at midnight when he takes a shower before bed and turns the lights on. He instantly said NO. Married people are supposed to sleep i'n the same bed. I said well all we are doing is fighting and we haven't had sex i'n months... So i think this is the perfect solution. So now he's mad about that. 

I just can't figure out what to think. Am i wrong?
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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> I talked to my DH at length tonight. First, he is still upset with me for not respecting his wishes about opening the patio door. He said that i wasn't doing as he asked. I told him i had a right to fresh air, and he said not if i told you i don't want you to because I'm worried you will attract roaches.
> 
> Then i told him he woke me over this... When he knew i had to be at work i'n a couple of hours and only got 2 hours of sleep. (i have to go to bed around 9:30 because i have to be at work at 4am). He said well you don't think you wake ne up when you go to work? I said i didn't know That, i will go back to sleeping i'n the spare room because it will help us both. I wake up everynight at midnight when he takes a shower before bed and turns the lights on. He instantly said NO. Married people are supposed to sleep i'n the same bed. I said well all we are doing is fighting and we haven't had sex i'n months... So i think this is the perfect solution. So now he's mad about that.
> 
> ...


We don't have roaches where I live - can they come through screens?

He feels you not wanting to sleep with him as pulling away. I have to ask, what does he do that shows consideration for you? He seems to have weird list of demands that need to be followed just because he said so, but where does he show you same resect?
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am not aware of roaches coming through screens but he says they can. I just think he's being silly. He first told me there was a gap i'n the screen. I asked him to point it out and that's when he got really ticked off. He had to admit that i was right. 

I don't have any weird requests. He told me keeping the door closed was respecting his wishes like he does when he makes sure the toilet is flushed. 




golfergirl said:


> We don't have roaches where I live - can they come through screens?
> 
> He feels you not wanting to sleep with him as pulling away. I have to ask, what does he do that shows consideration for you? He seems to have weird list of demands that need to be followed just because he said so, but where does he show you same resect?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Btw....all of us carry emotionally vulnerable little children inside of us, not just your husband.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


We DO?!? 

I am not criticizing OP's husband. Processing and ditching emotional baggage from childhood is called growing up. That he is doing it at 30 something is perfectly normal. But growing up involves losing the vulnerability of childhood and becoming self sufficient, emotionally mature. 

Sadly, many people never get there.


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

I think the one trend I read in your posts about your therapy sessions seems to be his inconsistency and adherence to certain thoughts even in light of reality. Basically, he's stubborn as all heck and they way you are communicating to him is not working. Being a stubborn person myself (and working on being less stubborn) its something that a person needs to acknowledge and also recognize when your value as a person is not being undermined by certain questions, etc. 

For example - the sliding door issue. You are correct, roaches are not going to come through that door. He, however, has already stated he doesn't want the door open. He may have believed at one point that roaches could come in, but now that you've pointed out to him its impossible he is in a corner. One reason is he may feel like you don't value his request to keep the door closed, thus don't value him. By calling him nuts or irrational it only adds to his belief that you don't care for his feelings. A good therapist might recommend that you find a compromise or just say, 'I care about how you feel and what makes you feel uncomfortable. When I questioned your request to close the door it wasn't because I don't care about your feelings it was more so that I could get air at night and didn't think that roaches would come through the screen door.'

For you, you know you have a lot of resentment. It can/should be aired in the same way he communicated about his peeing-the-pants incident. You should be able to say how it made you feel to him. It might help a little, but the bulk of the work on letting go of resentment is yours to do in individual therapy and absolutely essential to moving forward (if you want to move forward with or without him). The resentment will color the way you feel about his issues and interact with him. A bad dynamic will only get better as both of you heal. Hope that helps, good luck


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Honestly i never called him irrational or anything. I just said that i just wanted a little air i'n the room and i meant to close it. The big thing that i told him was how he handled it. I said i really just wished you wouldn't have woken me to address your anger. I said i felt like he didn't value my sleep (so little) over his anger. 

He has woken me before to ask me why i didn't clean up something i'n the kitchen etc. So i have asked him i'n the past to please value the little sleep time i have. 

Is that unreasonable?


think the one trend I read in your posts about your therapy sessions seems to be his inconsistency and adherence to certain thoughts even in light of reality. Basicallyhe's stubborn as all heck and they way you are communicating to him is not working. Being a stubborn person myself (and working on being less stubborn) its something that a person needs to acknowledge and also recognize when your value as a person is not being undermined by certain questions, etc. 

For example - the sliding door issue. You are correct, roaches are not going to come through that door. He, however, has already stated he doesn't want the door open. He may have believed at one point that roaches could come in, but now that you've pointed out to him its impossible he is in a corner. One reason is he may feel like you don't value his request to keep the door closed, thus don't value him. By calling him nuts or irrational it only adds to his belief that you don't care for his feelings. A good therapist might recommend that you find a compromise or just say, 'I care about how you feel and what makes you feel uncomfortable. When I questioned your request to close the door it wasn't because I don't care about your feelings it was more so that I could get air at night and didn't think that roaches would come through the screen door.'

For you, you know you have a lot of resentment. It can/should be aired in the same way he communicated about his peeing-the-pants incident. You should be able to say how it made you feel to him. It might help a little, but the bulk of the work on letting go of resentment is yours to do in individual therapy and absolutely essential to moving forward (if you want to move forward with or without him). The resentment will color the way you feel about his issues and interact with him. A bad dynamic will only get better as both of you heal. Hope that helps, good luck[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Mom6547 said:


> We DO?!?
> 
> I am not criticizing OP's husband. Processing and ditching emotional baggage from childhood is called growing up. That he is doing it at 30 something is perfectly normal. But growing up involves losing the vulnerability of childhood and becoming self sufficient, emotionally mature.
> 
> Sadly, many people never get there.


I only meant that everyone has vulnerabilities.
Not that everyone is ruled by them.
Call it a difference in vocabulary and don't read into it what I didn't write.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wunderbar (May 30, 2011)

firsttimer25 said:


> Honestly i never called him irrational or anything. I just said that i just wanted a little air i'n the room and i meant to close it. The big thing that i told him was how he handled it. I said i really just wished you wouldn't have woken me to address your anger. I said i felt like he didn't value my sleep (so little) over his anger.
> 
> He has woken me before to ask me why i didn't clean up something i'n the kitchen etc. So i have asked him i'n the past to please value the little sleep time i have.
> 
> ...


He shouldn't wake you for these sorts of things and that should be a rule of the house - if its not on fire it can wait until morning. He clearly has anger issues. Has he discussed anger with his counselor or have you requested he do an anger management session? If he gets really angry, like you describe, boundaries and 'rules' won't help his behavior. He needs to get his anger under control before he can be aware enough to follow certain, basic rules.

Thanks for clarifying - I hate to say it but its not about being reasonable or unreasonable (aka right or wrong). In the situation you described it escalated for both of you. He was angry/hurt by your leaving the door open then you were also angry/hurt by being awoken. So your apology may not have seemed sincere when coupled with the message 'don't wake me up.' If it happens again, apologize go back to sleep or sleep in the guest room and lock the door. Once the anger has subsided the next morning it is better to really talk about what happened and that, while sorry, you don't want to be awoken like that again.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

He sounds nuts and self absorbed. I think you deserve better but are basically asking us to give you permission to admit to yourself you deserve better. I'm guessing you already know it.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think you are absolutely correct. I am trying to feel secure in a decision to leave and I'm terrified that i will look back with regret. 




Trenton said:


> He sounds nuts and self absorbed. I think you deserve better but are basically asking us to give you permission to admit to yourself you deserve better. I'm guessing you already know it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

When free I think you'll look back and say 'what the hell took me so long'
If you leave make sure safeguards are in place to protect your son during visits with his dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

[That is possibly the best summary/response that I've ever read.* My goodness.* And it's absolutely right.*
I think what I find to be a consistent question is - why are you crying over this childhood issue when you show no remorse for hurting your own child?** I mentioned to him during our talk that he has never shown sincere remorse over hurting our son - and I don't believe he ever apologized for acting the way he did when the dogs nearly attacked our son.** He went ahead and apologized then - but it seemed very forced, of course.* He wasn't thrilled with our conversation - so it would be hard for him to be sincere.*
*
His big beef with me is that I'm controling.* He says the fact that I want to know if/when he went to individual therapy is controling.* I told him that it's just a part of our current relationship state.* I said if you were telling me daily or weekly that you really want things to work and that you are working very hard by doing xyz...I wouldn't have to ask how he's doing.* But,* he was clear that my questions are demeaning to him.* He appears very angry and said that he thinks the controling questions regarding his therapy are pushing him further away.** I said well the day I had CPS at the door - was the day I realized that he needed to prove to me that he was fit to be in the marriage/family.* Without consistent reinforcement - there is no reason for me to stay.*He said that he plans to talk to the couples therapist about this.* He feels I am controling and judgemental when I ask questions about our issues. I have to say that this has made me think deeply about myself.* Yes,* I feel that I am a bit controling (normally) but I think my habits of controling things have stemmed from my inability to trust him with responsibilty.** I asked him to simply make a bank deposit and he failed to do it correctly - and it led to a 100k*debt.* It was a simple bank deposit and he KNEW it had enormous ramifcations.* It didn't seem to matter.
*
Does my DH love me?* I think so - in his own way.* But, when I asked him to change shifts to help the family more - 6 months ago - he suggested that he go stock shelves at the grocery store instead.* He said "will that make you happy?"* He was obviously manipulating me and trying to get me to back off.* When I asked that we trade in our expensive car over a year ago -- for a cheaper one - he said - ok I'm going to buy a scooter then.** Again - manipulation.* These are not rational things.* Has he improved in this area?* I believe he has.* But, who know what tomorrow will*bring.*QUOTE=golfergirl;364001]When free I think you'll look back and say 'what the hell took me so long'
If you leave make sure safeguards are in place to protect your son during visits with his dad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> [That is possibly the best summary/response that I've ever read.* My goodness.* And it's absolutely right.*
> I think what I find to be a consistent question is - why are you crying over this childhood issue when you show no remorse for hurting your own child?** I mentioned to him during our talk that he has never shown sincere remorse over hurting our son - and I don't believe he ever apologized for acting the way he did when the dogs nearly attacked our son.** He went ahead and apologized then - but it seemed very forced, of course.* He wasn't thrilled with our conversation - so it would be hard for him to be sincere.*
> *
> His big beef with me is that I'm controling.* He says the fact that I want to know if/when he went to individual therapy is controling.* I told him that it's just a part of our current relationship state.* I said if you were telling me daily or weekly that you really want things to work and that you are working very hard by doing xyz...I wouldn't have to ask how he's doing.* But,* he was clear that my questions are demeaning to him.* He appears very angry and said that he thinks the controling questions regarding his therapy are pushing him further away.** I said well the day I had CPS at the door - was the day I realized that he needed to prove to me that he was fit to be in the marriage/family.* Without consistent reinforcement - there is no reason for me to stay.*He said that he plans to talk to the couples therapist about this.* He feels I am controling and judgemental when I ask questions about our issues. I have to say that this has made me think deeply about myself.* Yes,* I feel that I am a bit controling (normally) but I think my habits of controling things have stemmed from my inability to trust him with responsibilty.** I asked him to simply make a bank deposit and he failed to do it correctly - and it led to a 100k*debt.* It was a simple bank deposit and he KNEW it had enormous ramifcations.* It didn't seem to matter.
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

I think when you get even 3 days away you'll realize how consuming all this. How nice it is to take in a full deep breath and have it wash calm over you because you dont have to worry what stunt he'll pull next!
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## tamara24 (Jul 14, 2010)

I think once you leave you will breathe a sigh of relief. He is definitley a manipulator and probably hhas some mental issues. There is no reason why your having a discussion about leaving the door open. I live in a place whhere roaches are part of the environment and they don't try to come into screens. In fact, most roaches that do get into houses end up there by mistake and are just as unhappy about being there as you are of seeing them there! 

The inconsistanceys should point out to you that he is manipulating and I agree with the person that he has hit pay dirt with the therapist. You will always be the villian. Why is it that you have to respect his wishes but he ignores yours when you ask him not to borrow money? 

You are thirty something years old and have a child. Get on with your life. You are still young enough to start over and there is somebody out there that won't treat you this way. I would make sure there are some safeguards about visitations with the son. Consult an attorney. You make enough money to support yourself. Right now, you are prolonging your misery. Honey, go be happy!
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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think that these posts are enormously helpful and really make me see the outside world's opinion. I was in therapy again today and my husband was cornered. It was interesting. The incident where he "accidentally" kicked our son came up. The therapist asked him what happened. He told a completely different version. He still claimed he had a reflex but said it involved "horse play". Before he said he was stretching (which he was) when it happened. 

When the therapist asked him why he changed his story, he said it wasn't a big deal. She said it is a big deal. Your son was hurt. He said but how it happened was s reflex ... It doesn't really matter what i was doing before i get hit in the groin. She finally saw my issue with him. 

I also learned today that i am acting out what my own parents did to me. I was raped repeatedly when i was 14 by a family friend. I tried telling them indirectly but i was scared. The man threatened to kill my family if i directly told. It's complicated. But i recognized that i was blaming my parents for not seeing what was happening right under their nose. Today i realized that i may be doing the exact same thing with my husband. Believing his stories instead of trusting my gut. 

I am struggling today because this is a lot to take in




tamara24 said:


> I think once you leave you will breathe a sigh of relief. He is definitley a manipulator and probably hhas some mental issues. There is no reason why your having a discussion about leaving the door open. I live in a place whhere roaches are part of the environment and they don't try to come into screens. In fact, most roaches that do get into houses end up there by mistake and are just as unhappy about being there as you are of seeing them there!
> 
> The inconsistanceys should point out to you that he is manipulating and I agree with the person that he has hit pay dirt with the therapist. You will always be the villian. Why is it that you have to respect his wishes but he ignores yours when you ask him not to borrow money?
> 
> ...


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Your parents sound like Narcissists. What kind of parents laugh about their own daughter's admission that she was sexually abused by a family friend? People who lack empathy.

Your husband also sounds like a sicko, in the same vein as your parents. Do you think your husband could be a Narcissists, too? Does he refuse to accept responsibility for things he does? Is everything all about him? Ask your therapist if she thinks he has a personality disorder. If he does, it is very unlikely he can change.

I think you don't feel empahty for your husband because he's been abusive and you are pissed off that he's hurt you and your son.

You grew up with parents who didn't protect you and who did not honor your reality. No wonder you can't figure out if your husband's behavior is normal or not. You don't trust your intuition. I'm glad you are in therapy.


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

You are so used to being abused that it seems normal to you now. What I mean by that is, your definition of abuse has been skewed so that when lesser forms of abuse happen you don't really recognize it right away as abuse and don't trust your instincts when something doesn't feel right. I know because I'm living that as well.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I'm sorry you are also struggling "stillme4you".... i really know this is hard. You and the rest here have helped me open my eyes to reality. I hope you are finding strength, as well.

My DH has many narcissistic tendencies, but i don't know if that defines him. My therapist thinks he has some type of mental disorder, but she is hesitant to say without seeing him. Of course she only knows him through me. 

But i do believe he could be a narcissist. Let me ask this... So he kicks our son in the ribcage. Say it was no reflex... It was reckless. Well, he's now fully aware that i won't tolerate that behavior anymore... Along with his roadrage... Chasing a driver with us in the car. Well, now that he's on good behavior... Is it possible he won't portray that behavior anymore? If your spouse did that to your child would you stay in the marriage if they got help? 

Here are the problems i still see. He refuses to share with me ... What happens i'n his therapy, because he believes my questions are "controlling". As if he has to answer to me. (i said had you not had cps at the door that wouldn't be the case but times have changed!). 

Also, the situation with the darn door shows that even in therapy... He still is somewhat unsympathetic to my needs. And let's not forget... The fact that i really have so much resentment for him and have no desire to even touch him. 

Bottom line, i am trying to feel ok about leaving... Despite the fact that he is in therapy and appears to be trying. He definitely won't be aggressive with our son anymore. 





stillme4you said:


> You are so used to being abused that it seems normal to you now. What I mean by that is, your definition of abuse has been skewed so that when lesser forms of abuse happen you don't really recognize it right away as abuse and don't trust your instincts when something doesn't feel right. I know because I'm living that as well.


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

You are caught in the classic co-dependent trap of holding out hope on someone who has shown you time and again who they are. It seems like he substitutes one bad behavior for another.

He is a manipulator and a liar. That sounds like a narcissist to me. And you have to understand that there are some people in the world, including Narcissists, sociopaths, etc. who do not have the capacity and/or ability to change.....even if they wanted to. That is part of the disorder - inability to be empathetic, to have self-awareness, or to see other people's needs and experience. 

Your husband is lying to his therapist. How can therapy ultimately be successful when he's doing this? He cannot or will not face up to the fact that he wanted to hurt his son. He is lying about it, which makes it impossible to get in touch with the real issue. Do you see what I mean? His fragile ego cannot handle truly acknowledging that he purposely hurt your son and withouth that, there will be no healing. 

I agree with the other poster. You have gotten so used to being abused that you think that your husband's behavior falls into the realm of normal or acceptable. It doesn't. Your parents also sound sick and awful. Again, I'm sure they don't mean to be terrible, but they obviously have serious limitations. It is hard to come to terms with this. I would highly recommend find the website "Adult Children of Narcissists". It is a Yahoo usergroup. It is a wonderfully supportive (way more than this site) group and they can give you some insights and suggestions for getting out. 

I am so sorry you are going through all of this. It is a lot to process. You should know that you can get to a place where you break free from this abuse in your life. But you have to learn to see it's not normal and you have to believe that you deserve better. You do, and your son does.

You don't owe your husband anything. You only owe your son a safe and loving environment and you owe yourself a life free from people who can't or won't support you. Living a life trying to please your parents or your husband is a life wasted. If they are what I think they are, they do not have the capacity to care about you the way you deserve. You will be a hampster on a treadmill for the rest of your life.

You may feel like you are defective in some way, or that you are somehow to blame for all that has happened to you. You have probably been working SO HARD your entire life just to feel okay. I'm here to say that you don't have to work so hard. You are okay as you are. You are not to blame for your parent's, neighbor's, or husband's abuse. Accept this. Trust in it.

Your true self - the strong, independent, good and loving person that you are is struggling to come out. I can tell by reading your posts. You are on the brink of seeing life in a new way. Keep working with your therapist to allow it to happen. You will be thrilled and amazed that life is better than you thought. You just have to get out of the box you are in to see it.


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## marriagesucks (Sep 24, 2010)

I know you are hurt. But the reason your husband has these issues is probably because of things that happened growing up that influence his behavior. 

I'll give you a simple example. A friend of mine told me that when she was young, kids in school would call her ugly (they actually used a horrible description that I won't repeat here). In any case, she grows up to be an attractive well put together lady. But no matter how many compliments she gets, she can't see herself as anything but ugly.

All these poor behaviors now, are just his way of reacting to hurts, disappointments, etc that he experienced as a child and he is trying to find this way of dealing with it. I am sure that you have developed your own defense mechanism to deal with the abuses you have had as a child. It might not manifest itself in such a destructive way, but I bet it is there. For example: your willingness to stay in this relationship. If you are not trapped there for financial reasons then a healthy person would definitely leave.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

My goodness! There are some things here that are SPOT on. The young woman who was called ugly as a child and turned out quite beautiful but can't SEE it. That is me. And my DH spent years telling me i was beautiful but suggesting different clothes and plastic surgery. So now i am very screwed up. 

And this : ""You may feel like you are defective in some way, or that you are somehow to blame for all that has happened to you. You have probably been working SO HARD your entire life just to feel okay. I'm here to say that you don't have to work so hard. You are okay as you are. You are not to blame for your parent's, neighbor's, or husband's abuse. Accept this. Trust in it.""

I definitely feel defective. Why is that? I recognize parts of it. I think the rape made a big impact there. But i am still trying to understand why i feel so "different" from others. My parents were fools in constantly telling us and themselves that we were so much better than our "scum" neighbors and friends. But i could always secretly see that those people really had nice lives and my parents were just doing that to make themselves feel better. So i grew up feeling embarrassed to be around them and never ever ever good enough for anyone. 

And yes i definitely have had more than enough of my own problems that impact me to this day. I truly believe that's why i married my husband to begin with. 

Wow. I am learning so much this weekend... 

I am sick to my stomach when i look at my DH Now. I am sure it's overcompensation from my own childhood now that i realize that i was the one who was acting like my parents... and making excuses for the abuse that was happening right under my nose. 



know you are hurt. But the reason your husband has these issues is probably because of things that happened growing up that influence his behavior. 

I'll give you a simple example. A friend of mine told me that when she was young, kids in school would call her ugly (they actually used a horrible description that I won't repeat here). In any case, she grows up to be an attractive well put together lady. But no matter how many compliments she gets, she can't see herself as anything but ugly.

All these poor behaviors now, are just his way of reacting to hurts, disappointments, etc that he experienced as a child and he is trying to find this way of dealing with it. I am sure that you have developed your own defense mechanism to deal with the abuses you have had as a child. It might not manifest itself in such a destructive way, but I bet it is there. For example: your willingness to stay in this relationship. If you are not trapped there for financial reasons then a healthy person would definitely leave.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> My goodness! There are some things here that are SPOT on. The young woman who was called ugly as a child and turned out quite beautiful but can't SEE it. That is me. And my DH spent years telling me i was beautiful but suggesting different clothes and plastic surgery. So now i am very screwed up.
> 
> And this : ""You may feel like you are defective in some way, or that you are somehow to blame for all that has happened to you. You have probably been working SO HARD your entire life just to feel okay. I'm here to say that you don't have to work so hard. You are okay as you are. You are not to blame for your parent's, neighbor's, or husband's abuse. Accept this. Trust in it.""
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]

I'm so glad you posted here and are starting to feel some hope. Be prepared to go back and forth a few times and feel some hope because of some insignificant action on his part.
Think of it as:
Say my H cooks me supper and it's something he does two, three times a week. It's nice and appreciated. 
Say your H has never even brought you a cracker and decides to pour you a bowl of cereal. You're over the top at how considerate he is - totally awesome - cool guy. 
Because in your reality, that is way cool.

You're worth more than that bowl of cereal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Omg. Do you know how timely your post is?
My DH is definitely on good behavior. And he woke up this morning asking if he could make me an omelette after mass. Just as i turned my phone on and saw this he started asking again if he could make this omelette. Just completely him trying to please me right Now. He grabbed my hand i'n church and i wanted to push it away. Ugh. 




golfergirl said:


> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm so glad you posted here and are starting to feel some hope. Be prepared to go back and forth a few times and feel some hope because of some insignificant action on his part.
Think of it as:
Say my H cooks me supper and it's something he does two, three times a week. It's nice and appreciated. 
Say your H has never even brought you a cracker and decides to pour you a bowl of cereal. You're over the top at how considerate he is - totally awesome - cool guy. 
Because in your reality, that is way cool.

You're worth more than that bowl of cereal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

You feel defective because your parents did NOT give you unconditional love. My guess is that they were highly critical, self-absorbed people. When you are a child, you make sense of this by believing something is wrong with YOU to make them not love you unconditionally. That stays with you. It take a lot of work to think in a new way. But the good news is that it IS possible to break free from it.


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

They were highly critical. They would compliment but it seemed like I was never quite good enough. In fact my mom and sister would team up to make fun of me and giggle and giggle. 
They still do that quietly. They will gossip and say that i look older than my age and i got my dad's features. 
It's tough. I hear their voices quite often in my head. 




Laurae1967 said:


> You feel defective because your parents did NOT give you unconditional love. My guess is that they were highly critical, self-absorbed people. When you are a child, you make sense of this by believing something is wrong with YOU to make them not love you unconditionally. That stays with you. It take a lot of work to think in a new way. But the good news is that it IS possible to break free from it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi everyone. I just wanted to ask for support/guidance again. I asked my dh for a separation but agreed to continue going to therapy. He said he would need to run it past our couples therapist before agreeing to it. So he said he'd make an appointment. He still hasn't. 

He did go to HIS therapist today. He came back with an Anger 101 book. I asked what it was? He said his therapist does not think he is a rage a holic but he offered to read it to see what he thought of it. 

He's acting like nothing had happened. Giving me hugs saying he loves me etc etc. 

I always lose the guts to leave or kick him out when he's on good behavior. And here we are again. Since he's going to therapy ... Should i see how this plays out? 

He still maintains he has no anger issue. 



Laurae1967 said:


> You feel defective because your parents did NOT give you unconditional love. My guess is that they were highly critical, self-absorbed people. When you are a child, you make sense of this by believing something is wrong with YOU to make them not love you unconditionally. That stays with you. It take a lot of work to think in a new way. But the good news is that it IS possible to break free from it.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> Hi everyone. I just wanted to ask for support/guidance again. I asked my dh for a separation but agreed to continue going to therapy. He said he would need to run it past our couples therapist before agreeing to it. So he said he'd make an appointment. He still hasn't.
> 
> He did go to HIS therapist today. He came back with an Anger 101 book. I asked what it was? He said his therapist does not think he is a rage a holic but he offered to read it to see what he thought of it.
> 
> ...


None of that matters. If you're done - doesn't matter rage issues or not. If he won't leave then if possible, you go.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## firsttimer25 (Oct 14, 2010)

I know objectively... That you are right. But I struggle with strength when i regain hope in him. It's so painful to think of being alone, divorced and without the ability to have more children. Frankly i can feel the anxiety just typing that. It's such fear... 



golfergirl said:


> None of that matters. If you're done - doesn't matter rage issues or not. If he won't leave then if possible, you go.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## golfergirl (Dec 8, 2010)

firsttimer25 said:


> I know objectively... That you are right. But I struggle with strength when i regain hope in him. It's so painful to think of being alone, divorced and without the ability to have more children. Frankly i can feel the anxiety just typing that. It's such fear...
> 
> 
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You're talking to woman who had babies at 39 and 42, so don't lose hope on that! Do it with right man though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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