# Already divorced, she had exit affair. Worth trying to reconcile?



## JDubs34 (May 22, 2017)

OK so here goes.

My wife was my high school sweetheart. We met junior year and she ended up pregnant just four months later. There was talk around school that the child was not mine. People had even seen her walking hand-in-hand with another guy. I called it off with her, then six months into the pregnancy her mom brought her over to my parents house and basically told us that she would be kicked out when the baby was born. I ended up taking her back, and she moved in with me at my folks . Things were great for two years, so we decided we did love one another, and got married in August 2003. Shortly after we were married, I had found out that she had been messing around with my best friend. When confronted she lied to my face. She ended up moving in with her sister across town and leaving me with our three-year-old daughter. Fast forward six months later after no contact, and she suddenly back in the picture.

After reconciling six months later she was pregnant with our second child. I had gotten a great job and we moved into her own place and that's when things really took a turn for the worst. I had a buddy move in with me it was a friend since we were little. He had a brother that was going thru some marriage problems at the time and he would always come over. Well, they ended up having an affair. She told me she no longer loved me and that she wanted to leave me and move in with him. Fortunately him and his wife patched up their issues and the affair ended. Trying to be a good husband and responsible parent I offered to forgive her again and raise our two children and work on our marriage.

About two years later I was laid off of my job, my parents ended up moving to Texas and we weren't able to support ourselves so we moved with them. This was hard on her as it moved her away from all her friends and family. While she did not cheat for the six years we lived in Texas she did write a boyfriend from high school A letter telling him that she never loved me and was only with me because our parents helped us so much. Again me being an idiot, I forgave herand got us tickets to Hawaii. She wanted to renew our vows there so we did it on a private beach. She told me that she was very sorry for everything and that the renewal of vows was a new beginning.

After two years we were able to finally financially support ourselves so we move back to HER home state. Reluctantly, my parents warned me that moving there would end in divorce. I assured them that she was totally changed and I had nothing to worry about. Boy was I wrong! 

We ended up movin to Tennessee in Aug 2015. Two months into the new relocation she told me things needed to change or we would have to talk about divorce. So, I completely did a 180 and change everything that I was doing to try to get her to change her mind. She refused counseling and filed six months after we became Legal residents. She would not budge and she would not really tell me why we were divorcing. 

During this time she turned my two children against me. She made it seem it was all my fault. The divorce was finalized in July 2016. I moved my own place and she ended up moving into a new apartment. We really never stop hanging out that which was weird. We would go to dinner, movies, places with the kids but she would never stay the night and we never had sex. This one one on and off until about November 2016. She try to go no contact with me but would contact me about once twice possibly three times a week. Then suddenly in February it was like a switch was flipped on and everything was back on. Hanging out going out to dinner I had stayed the night a couple nights but we never end up having sex I just held her. 

Then suddenly about four weeks ago she cut everything off again. Four nights, ago I received a phone call from a woman who tells me she has big news. She told me to give her day and she would call me back and let me know what was going on. I asked if she knew my ex-wife, and all she would say was yes. 

So, she called me the next day and explained that her and her husband were getting a divorce because my ex-wife had been sleeping with him since November 2015. They are coworkers of sorts. she works at one office in Nashville he works in the Memphis office, 175 miles away. They had never actually met in person before they started meeting at a hotel. They talked on the phone and emailed thru work email. The affair partner's wife let me sign into her Facebook and read the conversation of my ex-wife admitting to times, dates, positions, the whole 9 yards. 

They were caught two months ago. They are trying to reconcile and my ex-wife came over to my place the other night and broke down crying. She said she felt like she was garbage and didn't deserve any relationship. Again, I told her that I want what's best for our kids and then I would forgive her if she would come to therapy and figure out why she cannot stay faithful. She agreed and even told our children. Last night she broke it off and now won't even respond to me. She had an exit affair and it was purely sexual. I know I shouldn't want to get back with her and I should not love her, but I don't understand why I do still. Maybe it's the fact my 10-year-old has been trying to cut herself since we divorced or maybe it's because my 15-year-old has told me she had thoughts of suicide. Obviously I'm going to seek both of them professional treatment, but I don't know what to do? Do I go no contact and never speak with her again except about the children or do I realize that she finally is ready to make a change and be a grown-up? I'm 34 and she is 33 and I have no idea what to do. I'm very lonely because I'm in a new state with no friends or family and other than work, nothing to do. I don't want to leave my children but if I can't make some friends or find some peace here, I feel like I have to go back and live around my friends and family. I will still see the children but the chances of reconciliation would never happen again. What should I do?

TLDR: married 16 years, two kids, wife had multiple affairs throughout relationship, made me move us to her home state where I have no friends or family and had an exit affair and told me she divorced me for other reasons. I just found out about the affair for days ago and we've been divorced since July 2016. She seems to want to reconcile but I don't know what to do.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Very simple! STAY DIVORCED! And do not let her back into your life in any way.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

"Worth trying to reconcile?"


Nope. She's an accident waiting to happen.... again.


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

JDubs, for many years you have tried to hold your family together because of your children and because of your feelings for your wife. Look critically at what that has meant right now - the condition that your children are in, and the condition that your own life is in. You have allowed your ex-wife to use your commitment to your family repeatedly to destroy the things that are precious to you. She is the mother of your children and you cannot change that, but there is a great deal about your life and your children's lives that you can change. Not allowing this woman any further place or power in your life is the start of that.

@sokillme


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## JDubs34 (May 22, 2017)

Preesh the replies. I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone. My kids will find out the truth when they're older. I want to move because I'm slowly killing myself here. I have no friends or family and all I do when I'm not working is smoke tons of cigs and starve myself. I've lost 50 lbs since divorce and I feel terrible. I stay up late as **** cause I can't sleep so I run on 2 to 3 hrs a night. I wish she could change. I know she is damaged goods, just wish she would've went to therapy with me after first affair. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mizzbak (Sep 10, 2016)

She uses you to make herself feel better. That there is someone who actually wants her and feels something for her - that's why she "comes back" when the other men don't want her any more. Maybe she also needs you to feel financially/physically secure. And maybe she has intermittent periods when she admits to herself what she's done to her children and you ... and feels guilty.

But really, does it matter why? 
It's you that you have to make sense of.

Have you taken any legal advice about your situation in terms of your kids etc. What would happen if you wanted to move state?
What kind of custody arrangement do you have?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

JDubs34 said:


> OK so here goes.
> 
> My wife was my high school sweetheart. We met junior year and she ended up pregnant just four months later. There was talk around school that the child was not mine. People had even seen her walking hand-in-hand with another guy. I called it off with her, then six months into the pregnancy her mom brought her over to my parents house and basically told us that she would be kicked out when the baby was born. I ended up taking her back, and she moved in with me at my folks . Things were great for two years, so we decided we did love one another, and got married in August 2003. Shortly after we were married, I had found out that she had been messing around with my best friend. When confronted she lied to my face. She ended up moving in with her sister across town and leaving me with our three-year-old daughter. Fast forward six months later after no contact, and she suddenly back in the picture.
> 
> ...


*In a word, "don't!" She's more than proven that she doesn't deserve the trust and love of any man!*


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

C'mon man. You have to know she isn't capable of being faithful. I hope you have DNA the kids. Of course after all thus time I don't know if I would want to know myself.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

if you want more drama and heart ache then give her another chance!


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

JDubs

In baseball you tag up before trying to steal second base. In this case, you are first base. She always tags up before trying to steal second base. And, she will always be looking to steal second base.

The definition of insanity is performing the same action over and over again expecting a different result. Do you really expect a different result?

She is a serial cheater and you are her enabler. She is addicted. Stay out of infidelity.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Absolutely not. She's shown you who she is time and again. You can hope all you want but you would be foolish to take her back. Why does she keep coming back into your life? Because you're her safety net. Her Plan B. 

Don't do it. Wake up and move on.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

JDubs34 said:


> Preesh the replies. I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone.


Because you MAKE it so damned easy, that's why. All she's got to do is crook her little finger and you come running right to her, panting like a little stray dog, tail wagging, begging for a pat on the head. Willing to do whatever she wants, willing to give her whatever she needs, willing to be used for whatever purpose she needs at that moment - all while accepting *nothing* in return.

Hell, *I* want one of those. :grin2:

I have to tell you, at one time you were a victim of this toxic woman. You chose to become a volunteer a long time ago.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

She's just a parasite that moves from man to man. You've just been that rock she can fall back on while she's between one man and the next. If that's how you want to live, go ahead. You just need to understand what is really happening. I think your high school friends are probably correct that your first child is not yours. What about your second?


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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> I have to tell you, at one time you were a victim. You chose to become a volunteer a long time ago.


Please forgive my abridged version SSGI but OP, this is it in a nutshell.

She has shown you who she is at her core time and time again, why do you choose not to believe her?

When you have truly suffered enough, you will let go... until then your suffering will be lather, rinse, repeat.

Love yourself more, because what she is showing you isn't giving you the balance you need.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Nope.

Also, DNA each of your kids.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

JDubs34 said:


> I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone.


Because you are the poster child for a Plan B, backup partner - even while divorced. And the sad thing is, you have willingly enabled her to treat you like this time and time again. Why should she think different now?

Stop communicating with her except for when you absolutely have to; about the kids. Then get some counseling for co-dependence. Do what's best for your children and move on with your life.


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## _anonymous_ (Apr 18, 2016)

Have some respect for yourself, and stop giving people second chances who have repeatedly betrayed your trusts! 

From your story, it seems like the physical component of your relationship has been problematic for a long time, and your ex-wife has dealt with that by cheating. This was her choice over the years, time and time again; she made it as a big girl. Please, stop hoping that she has "grown out of this" and ignoring the big problem: she doesn't love you; she stayed with you for the wrong reasons; she put that in writing. I'm sorry.

Faithful spouses deserve faithful spouses, and cheating spouses deserve cheating spouses. Let her go be with the other man (e.g. another cheater), and go find someone who genuinely loves you. Your divorce is final, so let sleeping dogs lie. Your ex isn't worthy of another chance, and your kids deserve better than an emotional roller coaster ride, where mom and dad can't make up their minds about each other.

I'm afraid that the flipside of your ex-wife staying with you for the wrong reasons, is actually you doing the very same thing! In my opinion, you've been overly needy in your relationship and sold yourself short on a better life with someone else, who will love you enough to stay faithful. I get that in part, you staying with your ex over the years was for your kids, but also in part, you were unwilling to leave your comfort zone. In this case, a familiar relationship is not a good one for you; it's time to move on.

Do you have full or joint custody? If full custody, when your ex comes over to spend time with the kids, cut the physical contact; no holding her, absolutely no sex--these things nurture your attachment to her. If joint custody, I have to wonder why the heck you're spending time together with the kids and your ex; let her have the kids for the time and go do your own thing. One way or another, move on from the way things used to be between mommy and daddy; that show for your kids is long over, and mommy pulled the curtain. Good luck!


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Do not blame the divorce for the problems the children are having. They have watched their mother manipulate and use men all their life. They learned well. Obviously they both need therapy, but do not think that remarrying the crazy woman will solve any problems the kids have.

Your high school friends and parents are right about her. She is a serial cheater and will never stop. This woman never loved anyone but herself and will not change. Do not sacrifice more of your life for her.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

manfromlamancha said:


> Very simple! STAY DIVORCED! And do not let her back into your life in any way.


^THIS^.

But did you really have to ask us? She lied to you over and over, abused your trust, sat back and watched you work to support the family AND bend over backwards to make the marriage work. What could you possibly change that would have a different outcome this time? Say bye bye. 

Work on being a good dad to those kids.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Why do you not have custody of your kids?

Or do you have custody of your kids? I do think you should start NC as much as possible and read up on the 180.

Get her out of your life. any communication on the kids, do with emails. I would DNA the kids, just not tell them.

You want to know for medical issues. 


Get her out of your life. Why would you think of ever wanting her back? She has no love or respect for you.

I do hope you see a councilor soon. And stay far away from her. and find a way legally for you to have custody of the kids.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

NO my Friend. 

Find yourself a better woman.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

*Worth trying to reconcile?*

NOOO!

How many chances have you given, 14? Stay far away, only interact with children. If she hasn't started already, she will be using Sex to hook you back in with another pregnancy.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

She has shown you TIME and TIME again that YOU are not worth anything to her. She is NOT marriage material and never will be with you. WHY would you WANT to get back with someone who continually cheats on you and maybe even has you raise someone else's child(ren)???

You need to STOP talking/seeing/ANYTHING with her that does NOT involve the children. No more dates, no more hanging out, etc.. WHY would you want to spend time with someone who treats you so poorly? You really need to start living your OWN life, increase your circle of friends, and start doing things that YOU like to do (hobbies, etc.). Since you run so much, why don't you try to see if there is a running club in the area (try meetup.com)? Perhaps other groups that do things you enjoy. 

This woman is TOXIC and absolutely NOT worth ANY of your time.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

I know this may sound cruel of harsh, but the only good and honest statement she ever told you is that, she doesn't deserve any relationship. Stay divorced is my advice.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

JDubs

Either this is some fabulous woman that you are willing to take this measure of abuse for or you have zero self image. Have you even tried to move on to other relationships? It sounds like you are hypnotized. Break the spell. She has shown you time and time and time again her true nature, and you still wonder if she really is that way. Yes, she is really that way. Born that way, will die that way. You can't change her, no one can change her. Your future is to be the same as your past, unless you wake up from your fantasy that you move on together and leave the past behind. I haven't seen a post on here that hasn't given you the exact same advice.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

JDubs34 said:


> OK so here goes.
> 
> My wife was my high school sweetheart. We met junior year and she ended up pregnant just four months later. There was talk around school that the child was not mine. People had even seen her walking hand-in-hand with another guy. I called it off with her, then six months into the pregnancy her mom brought her over to my parents house and basically told us that she would be kicked out when the baby was born. I ended up taking her back, and she moved in with me at my folks . Things were great for two years, so we decided we did love one another, and got married in August 2003. Shortly after we were married, I had found out that she had been messing around with my best friend. When confronted she lied to my face. She ended up moving in with her sister across town and leaving me with our three-year-old daughter. Fast forward six months later after no contact, and she suddenly back in the picture.
> 
> ...


If you take her back she will just hold onto you until she feels secure to move on with someone else. Why do you want her back? What exactly do you think the outcome would be? In her long history with you has she ever once shown you she is capable of having a monogamous relationship? Think about all the ways she has treated you? Do you think that is normal for a person who loves another? From the point when you knew her as a child she was cheating on you. 

You can't fix her, she is broken I would bet BPD. Even if she is ready to grow up you are not the one to do it with. 

Next I would ask you what is this back and forth doing to your children. You say your motivation is to help them, but your ex-wife is toxic. In your long relationship she has never shown she has the ability to have a stable relationship with you. How does that effect them to see their mother go in and out of their lives. What do you think that teaches them? You sir are contributing to that because you are exposing them to this toxic cycle. Kids who grow up in drama learn to seek it out in life. Your responsibility is to protect them. Your ex is not capable of giving you what you want, providing for you a stable relationship. It's time for YOU to grow up. Enough with the dreaming and pining away for a fantasy of a happy life with someone who has continued to abuse you. It's not going to happen. You can't make a square peg fit in a round hole. She is not meant to be married, it's not in her nature. 

You are exactly the same as the women who goes back over and over to the man who is giving her black eyes. You must stop, YOU must get help for yourself and your children. Would you advise the women who has been put in the hospital by her ex to take him back because he says he has changed? After he was dumped? Sometimes the damage is too severe to overcome even if he has changed. You son is in such bad shape not because your wife left but because of her abuse of her family. DO NOT leave him vulnerable to more if it. Read this, and go get some counseling. You need to break the cycle for your kids. They need an example of a relationship in their lives that is not toxic. You can't give them that if you hang on to a person who continues to use and abuse you. If you get some help maybe you can meet someone one day and be a good example.

I would attest and others here would agree that you sound like someone who has a substance abuse problem. You desperately crave something that is destroying your life. It would be good for you to stop seeing yourself as someone who just loves too much and start seeing yourself from the perspective of people who have and unbiased eye. Everyone here is telling you you are not healthy. What you think is love is not, it's toxic codependency. You need to break the cycle and get some help.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Better man up for your kids. 

Stop smoking like a freight train and be the father they need you to be. 

Find someone else. Stop obsessing about her and get a life. Your happiness depends on you not that thing you had as a wife. She doesn't love you.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You need some serious IC no one in their right mind would even be hanging around her.

Fix yourself before doing anything else.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I think you should move back home to where you have support, you need that right now.

I hope you have gotten yourself tested for STD's.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> Nope.
> 
> Also, DNA each of your kids.


+1

I don't care how broke you may be, get a paternity test done on every one of them.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JDubs34 said:


> Preesh the replies. I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone. My kids will find out the truth when they're older. I want to move because I'm slowly killing myself here. I have no friends or family and all I do when I'm not working is smoke tons of cigs and starve myself. I've lost 50 lbs since divorce and I feel terrible. I stay up late as **** cause I can't sleep so I run on 2 to 3 hrs a night. I wish she could change. I know she is damaged goods, just wish she would've went to therapy with me after first affair.



She won't leave you alone because you are the only decent man in her life. You are the only person who has been there for her regardless of what she does. 

Does he love you? She might. But she might not have the ability to be faithful... something is really messed up in her head. She needs counseling very badly.

You need to be there for your children. What do you think will happen to your children if you were to go back to Texas. They have a messed up mother. And then their father left them. That will destroy them.

You are responsible for your own happiness. There is no reason that you cannot build a life for yourself where you are until your children are grown. You need to meet people, get a social circle and get a life. One way to start doing that is to go to the website meetup.com ... they have a lot of interesting/fun things to do. Go to some of them. Meet people. Enjoy yourself. You can take your children to these meetups too. They are not about dating. they at about people getting out, having a life and making friends.

There is also an organization Parents Without Partners. Look them up. They have social events that you can go to. And some of those are events where you can take your children. 

Get a life.

And do not let your ex into your life. She needs to fix herself all on her own.


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## Vulcan2013 (Sep 25, 2013)

Paging @Uptown


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

JDubs34 said:


> Preesh the replies. I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone. My kids will find out the truth when they're older. I want to move because I'm slowly killing myself here. I have no friends or family and all I do when I'm not working is smoke tons of cigs and starve myself. I've lost 50 lbs since divorce and I feel terrible. I stay up late as **** cause I can't sleep so I run on 2 to 3 hrs a night. I wish she could change. I know she is damaged goods, just wish she would've went to therapy with me after first affair.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can wish to win the lottery and wish to grow a 12" Johnson, but wishes don't pay rent and they don't take the stains out of the knees of your jeans. 

Chumplady has a great saying on her infidelity website - "Trust that they suck."

That's it, it's that simple. Trust that she sucks. Trust that she is a serial cheater that has no boundaries, no moral compass, no self control, no sense of propriety, no concern for other people's feelings or other people's marriages. She has no shame. 

She sucks. Trust in that. 

Now if you insist keeping that door open (which we all advise against) at least have some boundaries and criteria and standards. 

Move on with your own life. Do your own thing. Build a good life for yourself and your children. Get out on the dating market and date. (fix your picker and your sense of self worth first) 

Then if in 5 years she has received intensive therapy, has become self-supporting and has grown a sense of empathy, self-control, morality etc etc and you happen to be single and available and she has transformed into a decent human being and you have the inclination to date her, you are both consenting adults at that point. 

But you are under no obligation to protect her from herself and her own self-destruction. 

Don't try to be a white knight. 

"All that men who try to rescue damsels in distress have to show for it at the end of the day is a distressed damsel on their hands."

- Dr Laura Schlesinger


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

@Uptown is bringing the Holy Water.

I am not worthy of offering the sign of The Cross.
......................................................................................

Before each of you were born, ref., your wife/ex wife and yourself, a match was made in Heaven.

You are that pair. Every person is born with a measure of "good and bad" in them.

Normally, we are born as individual souls. In your case you were fraternal twins, a male and a female.

The problem was, you remained one single soul, one potential birthing. Normally a birth such as this will be still born.

What happened, sometime prior to birth, you split into two entities.

The division of characteristics was skewed and unbalanced.

You got the soul, she got none. You got the decency, she got none. You got the right.....she got the wrong.

Your marital match in Heaven occurred as destined.

You got the shaft.......

She got the hole........ 

She has been punishing you ever since. 

She gets the shafts and buries you in the hole.

Climb out of her hole, climb out and be a whole man. A whole man and not a reflection of that match made in Heaven.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

@*Vulcan2013* and @*SunCMars*, thanks for the callout. I had overlooked *JDub's* thread.

*JDub*, I agree with *Vulcan*, @*sokillme*, and *SunCMars* that you seem to be describing red flags for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Specifically, the behaviors you mention -- i.e., emotional instability, controlling behavior, temper tantrums and drama, lack of impulse control, rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (devaluing you), and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD. To a lesser extent, you also describe warning signs (e.g., low empathy and selfishness) for NPD (Narcissistic PD). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your exW has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may be a "BPDer," i.e., may exhibit strong BPD symptoms, regardless of whether they are above or below the diagnostic threshold.



JDubs34 said:


> Then suddenly in February it was like a switch was flipped on and everything was back on.... Then suddenly about four weeks ago she cut everything off again.


If she is a BPDer, she likely has the emotional development of a four year old. She therefore is too immature to tolerate being conscious of two strong conflicting feelings at the same time toward close family or friends. Hence, like a young child, she "splits off" the conflicting feeling, putting it far out of reach of her conscious mind. In this way, a BPDer only has to deal with her love or hate feelings toward you at any point in time.

The result is that a BPDer will categorize you and everyone close to her as either "all good" (white) or "all bad" (black). And she will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- in just ten seconds -- based on a minor comment or action. As you say, it seems like "a switch was flipped on" because it occurs so quickly. And, then a few hours or weeks later, it can be flipped back just as quickly. This behavior is called "black-white thinking."

Due to this flipping back and forth between adoring you and devaluing you, a repeating push-away and pull-back cycle is created. This cycle makes BPDer relationships notorious for having numerous breakups -- like the many breakup/makeup cycles you have described. 

A BPDfamily survey of about 460 such relationships found that nearly a fourth of them (23%) went through 10 or more complete breakup/makeup cycles BEFORE finally ending for good. About 40% of the BPDer relationships experienced at least six breakup/makeup cycles before eventually ending. And 73% had three or more breakup/makeup cycles before finally ending. See "Results" at BPDfamily Breakup/Makeup Poll. 



> I don't understand if she doesn't love me why the hell she won't leave me alone?


If she is a BPDer, she has such a fragile, weak sense of who she is that she will seek out a man with a strong personality who can provide that missing identity and serve as stabilization. BPDers typically HATE to be alone and thus will have another partner waiting in the wings in case the current R/S doesn't work out. On top of that, they have a great fear of abandonment. The result is that it is common for a BPDer to verbally abuse her partner but refuse to leave him (unless another partner is already lined up). This is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is called _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!_



> We ended up moving to Tennessee in Aug 2015. Two months into the new relocation she told me things needed to change or we would have to talk about divorce.... My ex-wife had been sleeping with him since November 2015.


It sure looks like your W was intending to divorce you but did not want to do so in Texas. Because you would almost certainly get 50% custody of your two children, the court would require her to live near you in Texas so you both could share joint custody. Hence, divorcing you in Texas means she would have been trapped for many years there in Texas where she had no family or friends. Her intention to divorce you seems apparent because, only 3 months after moving to Tennessee she was already sleeping with another man and, as soon as she satisfied the 6-month requirement for being a resident of Tenn, she filed for divorce.



> During this time she turned my two children against me. She made it seem it was all my fault.


Likewise, my BPDer exW turned all five of my step children against me using bogus claims and false accusations. BPDers and narcissists are notorious for doing this whenever they split a partner black and decide to divorce. This process is called "parental alienation." It occurs when one parent uses psychological manipulation of a child so that he/she shows unwarranted fear and hostility towards the other parent. Indeed, my exW had threatened me years earlier that, if I ever left her, she would do exactly that to ensure that I lost the five step children I loved so dearly.



> I told her that I want what's best for our kids and then I would forgive her if she would come to therapy and figure out why she cannot stay faithful.


If your exW has strong BPD and/or NPD traits, MC likely would be a total waste of time because her issues go far beyond a simple lack of communication skills. As to IC (Individual Counseling), most major cities offer excellent treatment programs (e.g., CBT and DBT) for BPDers. 

It nonetheless is rare for a high functioning BPDer to seek treatment or, even if they do, to stay in the program long enough to make a real difference. I would be surprised if as much as 1% of high functioning BPDers ever do that. As to narcissists, I am unaware of any treatment program that has been shown (in refereed journals) to be successful in making a substantial change in behavior.



> Just wish she would've went to therapy with me after first affair.


If your exW actually is a BPDer, it is highly unlikely therapy would have made any difference unless she is one of those rare BPDers having a high level of self awareness and sufficient ego strength to be willing to work hard for years in therapy. Importantly, therapy will not work unless the BPDer badly wants to do it on her own.

With my exW, for example, I spent a small fortune taking her to weekly sessions with 6 different psychologists and 3 MCs. Those weekly sessions went on for 15 years at enormous cost to me and my insurance carrier. It did not make one dent in her abusive behavior. Not one dent.



> My 10-year-old has been trying to cut herself since we divorced.... my 15-year-old has told me she had thoughts of suicide.


If your exW really is a BPDer, there is a risk of her passing it on to one of the children through heredity and/or environment. It is unclear, however, how high that risk is because only a few studies (all with small sample sizes) have been done. Three older studies (1985 and 1988) found that _"between 10 and 20 percent of first-degree relatives of people with BPD also have BPD...."_ See BPD Survival Guide (at p. 42). 

A more recent 2011 study, however, estimates the risk at between 28% and 37%. It therefore concludes that _"An individual with a first-degree relative showing BPD exhibited a statistically significant 3- to 4-fold increase in risk of BPD compared with an individual without a first-degree relative with BPD." _See "Comment" section of BPD Family Study. Whereas the earlier studies had been based on self-reporting by the BPDer patient being treated, this 2011 study is more thorough because it was based on interviews of both the BPDer patients and their affected family members. 

The NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness) reports an even higher figure. It states "BPD is about five times more common among people who have a first-degree relative with the disorder." See NAMI on BPD. Given that the lifetime incidence is 6% for the general population, this estimate would place the risk at 30%.

Significantly, the _"cutting"_ and _"thoughts of suicide"_ you mention constitute one of the nine defining symptoms for BPD. Specifically, that symptom is _"Recurring suicidal behaviors or threats or self-harming behavior, such as cutting."_ Indeed, of the 157 disorders listed in the American diagnostic manual (DSM-5), only BPD has "cutting" listed as a defining trait. In adults, the cutting behavior has been found to be strongly associated with BPD in several studies. In early adolescence, however, the association is much weaker because there are several different reasons that young teens do cutting.



> Do I go no contact and never speak with her again except about the children or do I realize that she finally is ready to make a change and be a grown-up?


Because your exW has refused to do therapy for 16 years, I join all the other respondents in advising you to stay away from her. Yet, unless you get full custody (very unlikely), you cannot go NC entirely. But you should keep communication restricted to texts (which you save) and rare voice calls (which you record). It is important to build a record of your interaction because you are always at risk of her complaining about you to Child Protective Services in an attempt to take the kids away permanently.

I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com, which offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful are the _"Detaching from a Borderline"_ board and _"Co-Parenting after the Split"_ board. While you're there at BPDfamily, read the articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. At other websites, I recommend Fathers Divorcing, and High Risk Parenting, and Pain of Breaking Up, and Divorcing a Narcissist.



> I don't want to leave my children but if I can't make some friends or find some peace here, I feel like I have to go back and live around my friends and family.


Stay with your children and get at least 50% custody so that, half the time at least, they experience a normal healthy home environment. Your friends in Texas are replaceable and are old enough to protect themselves. Your children are not.



> What should I do?


I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two _all by yourself_ -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your children are dealing with. I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your exW exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, verbal abuse, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

I therefore suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join *Vulcan*, *Sokillme*, *SunCMars*, and the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Of course, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your exW's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking your exW back or running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, *JDub*.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

JDubs34 said:


> TLDR: married 16 years, two kids, wife had multiple affairs throughout relationship, made me move us to her home state where I have no friends or family and had an exit affair and told me she divorced me for other reasons. I just found out about the affair for days ago and we've been divorced since July 2016. *She seems to want to reconcile but I don't know what to do*.


:slap:


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Post#1
My rule #1 Never post more than the original poster.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Post#2

See post #1


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

JDubs34 said:


> OK so here goes.
> 
> My wife was my high school sweetheart. We met junior year and she ended up pregnant just four months later. There was talk around school that the child was not mine. People had even seen her walking hand-in-hand with another guy. I called it off with her, then six months into the pregnancy her mom brought her over to my parents house and basically told us that she would be kicked out when the baby was born. I ended up taking her back, and she moved in with me at my folks . Things were great for two years, so we decided we did love one another, and got married in August 2003. Shortly after we were married, I had found out that she had been messing around with my best friend. When confronted she lied to my face. She ended up moving in with her sister across town and leaving me with our three-year-old daughter. Fast forward six months later after no contact, and she suddenly back in the picture.
> 
> ...


Please do not get into another relationship with your wife, she is absolutely toxic and will drag you down with her. The kids need a stable parent who can be relied on, be that parent. YOU should go no contact with her except about the kids and move on with your life. Get into another loving relationship, maybe it will do wonders for the kids to see what a loving relationship looks like. As of now you are both parents to the kids, stop engaging with her, she is bad bad news.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

No comment really. I guess I am not smart enough to comprehend why you even have any inclination to continue to have this woman in your life.

You need therapy for your co dependency .

When someone repeats behavior that produces disastrous results time and time and ( which is what you are doing), whiny on earth do you expect a different outcome.????

Either accept that she will continue to have boyfriends or stop doing non productive things to yourself. She hasn't been able to keep the penis of another man out of her during this entire disaster that you are calling a marriage or relationship. And why should it change??? Youi're still around asking strangers what to do.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

H'es gone y'all. Last log-on was the 22d.


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

OP don't know if you're still around but you should have divorced her by the second paragraph. Stay divorced and move on.


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## curious234 (Jan 28, 2017)

Unbelievable. You have been a pushover my friend. Be a alpha male at least now. You were giving her emotional support while she was having sex. The only excuse I can see is you did not want sex - which is unlikely. Do not fall in the same pit in the daytime


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