# I think that I am being paranoid from reading TAM......or not



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OK, my LD wife of 46 years has a high stress job, that got even more stressful last month as she needs to now meet twice a month with some company stakeholders to get their input on various advisory things. This is a new responsibility with added pay. They sometimes have working meetings after working hours, sometimes have group dinners, and sometimes do both. Most, but not all the meetings are at the company offices.

She normally works until about 6 pm and gets home around 7 pm. On meeting nights she gets home anywhere between 10 PM and midnight. I and my wife are 68/67 years old. My wife has difficulty driving at night on freeways, but can handle surface roads, which tend to be better lit and slower.

I have noticed the stress she seems to be under and haven't thought a thing about it, until she told me that she has a late meeting and it will be at a suburb away from her office, so she is going to get a hotel room to avoid driving late at night. She will go to the hotel afterwards, take a change of clothes and go to her office the next day from the hotel.

This is odd behavior for her, but I told her fine as her safety is far more important than anything else to me. 

I also told her that if she wants a "booty call" she can let me know and I would be more than happy to join her in the hotel or pick her up and drive her home or let her take a taxi. I told her I thought that could be kind of fun for us to have a night in a hotel with her. She looked at me and said no thanks, but she will be alright by herself. 

OK, I have to admit, that while odd, I do essentially trust her and over the 46 years of marriage have never questioned her fidelity. Her sex drive/libido has always been much lower than mine. We did emotionally drift apart, but through the help of a great sex therapist are closer now than were were 20 years ago. I consider our marriage solid right now.

TAM has made me a bit paranoid from reading all the stories of people who announce that they have been cheated on and didn't see it coming. 

That paranoia has been eating at me for a couple weeks. I went into a Best Buy and looks at VAR's, then left without buying one. I purchased a Sony VAR over the weekend and am thinking about installing it in my wife's car this next weekend prior to her hotel night. 

I am now struggling with should I install it or should I just trust her. 

Part of me says don't betray her trust by spying on her. Part of me says I would like reassurance that nothing is going on. Part of me is saying that she will never find out.....then I say that is what I would probably say if I were cheating on my wife. Then I feel all icky and morally compromised. 

Anyone want to talk me out of installing the VAR in her car for one week and one week only?

I need to stop reading the TAM infidelity topic threads.

Thanks.


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## Noble1 (Oct 25, 2013)

Hello,

Thank you for sharing your feelings and at least looking to do something about it.

I do not have much to add as I am sure more seasoned posters will come and provide their suggestions.

My take is that your "gut" is telling you something and if you have been reading the CWI section, you know that this is a real thing.

Hope its just the work stress thing and it gets resolved fast.

In my opinion, it is better to check up and not find anything than to 'just trust' and be taken by surprise later.

Good luck.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

How long is the drive from the meeting place to your home?


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

I know nothing about infidelity but I do know that every now and then I fantasize about a night in a hotel room (on my own) just for a selfish night to myself. 

My mum and dad have been married 52 years and they both have weekend breaks without each other - just a couple of nights so they can appreciate one another. I go away for a weekend without H every year. It is bliss for us both. But we miss each other, and love each other - we just need a break every now and then.

Are you guys OK in every other way? If you have drifted apart then maybe worry, if you are still emotionally connected then relax.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Young, I thought you and her were more confident in each other than that now. 

...and if she finds it?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

tropicalbeachiwish said:


> How long is the drive from the meeting place to your home?


At that time of night staying off the freeway, maybe 60 to 90 minutes.


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## TX-SC (Aug 25, 2015)

I see no reason to not trust her. I think spying on her could damage your relationship given that there is no real reason for it. 

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

peacem said:


> I know nothing about infidelity but I do know that every now and then *I fantasize about a night in a hotel room (on my own) just for a selfish night to myself.*
> 
> My mum and dad have been married 52 years and they both have weekend breaks without each other - just a couple of nights so they can appreciate one another. I go away for a weekend without H every year. It is bliss for us both. But we miss each other, and love each other - *we just need a break every now and then.*
> 
> Are you guys OK in every other way? If you have drifted apart then maybe worry, if you are still emotionally connected then relax.


Yes we are OK in every other way.

I think this is what I needed to hear.

Thanks.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> At that time of night staying off the freeway, maybe 60 to 90 minutes.


My auntie is about the same age and she would not want to do that journey late at night. When she comes to visit she will stay over if it gets too late, or she will go early. She gets tired. Driving is tiring for some women of that age, especially after working. Be careful here.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

anchorwatch said:


> Young, I thought you and her were more confident in each other than that now.
> 
> ..*.and if she finds it?*






TX-SC said:


> I see no reason to not trust her. I think spying on her could damage your relationship given that there is no real reason for it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


Your are both right. that is probably what I needed to hear.

Now I have a new electronic toy to play with in my office and on trips. 

I will trust her, as I do trust her. I also need to be a little more selective in my reading. As was said, she is probably looking forward to a night by herself.

Thanks.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> At that time of night staying off the freeway, maybe 60 to 90 minutes.


I sometimes get week multi-day projects about 90 minutes from home, and when I do, I always stay in a hotel. However, I've always done that and I'm accessible by phone at any moment when my H calls. If she is LD, the booty call may simply not appeal to her.

But then there is always your gut... I'd recommend spying on her somehow but only if you know you can't get caught. If she is innocent and you put something on her phone or in her car, and she found it, how angry would she be? If she's not innocent, the sooner you find out the better, and so what if she's angry. 

Sorry, I'm not helping much... Can you show up at the hotel with something special for her as a surprise?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Noble1 said:


> ..... if you have been reading the CWI section, you know that this is a real thing.
> 
> Hope its just the work stress thing and it gets resolved fast.
> 
> ...


I contribute mostly in the Sex in Marriage section as I want to give back. I was in a sex starved marriage and with the help of a number of folks on the MW Davis website worked my way back into a healthy marriage. Many of them were banned from that sight when they recommended other than MW Davis approaches and had their own website on this a part of this one until it was disbanded. So that is kind of how I transitioned here and why I follow some of the discussions.

Thanks for your input. 

I kind of wanted to be talked out of installing the VAR as I didn't think it was right, but every not and then after reading about someone completely blindsided, I get paranoid.


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## peacem (Oct 25, 2014)

As she is LD I was also thinking where you say 'booty call' she may be hearing 'inconvenience'. Just make sure you are not mis-communicating.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

WorkingWife said:


> I sometimes get week multi-day projects about 90 minutes from home, and when I do, I always stay in a hotel.....
> 
> Sorry, I'm not helping much... *Can you show up at the hotel with something special for her as a surprise?*


Sometimes in the past when she has traveled to national conferences, I have had room service deliver things to her room upon checking in. A couple times when flights were delayed and the kitchen was closed, it was her only evening meal. 

Since one of the rituals I do for her is bring her coffee in bed in the morning, maybe I can arrange for room service to bring her fresh coffee in the morning. While I bet it is just her in the room, if it wasn't, the knock at the door might scare the hell out of her. :wink2:

Thanks for sharing and the idea.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Quit skimming TAM CWI, it'll make you paranoid. No, I am not joking. Usually, the fear you are relating is constant, with multiple other issues, a big event and huge trouble in the marriage. If you read further into many of those "I didn't see it coming" threads, a select few are honestly out of the blue. Most are people sitting on a train track, horns blaring, crossing guard coming down, flashing lights and still it takes someone to say "see the train" to make them realize something is coming.



> I have noticed the stress she seems to be under and haven't thought a thing about it, until she told me that she has a late meeting and it will be at a suburb away from her office, so she is going to get a hotel room to avoid driving late at night. She will go to the hotel afterwards, take a change of clothes and go to her office the next day from the hotel.


She told you why, where, when and what she was going to do. Leave it alone.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Young, my DW did something similar, once a month for a two year period. She insisted on being on her own. She's very independent. I don't remember if it was the 2nd or 3rd time when she was pleased to have me visit for the evening. 

Stay away from CWI, it's will leave you in an emotional hole.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

TX-SC said:


> I see no reason to not trust her. I think spying on her could damage your relationship given that there is no real reason for it.
> 
> Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk


QFT 

Given the drive time, I think it's very reasonable to stay in hotel for the night. 

Leave this one alone. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I would NOT worry about this. If I had to do something that late at night 90 minutes away I would definitely get a hotel (and have MANY times.) And I'm decades younger than her. She has never given you reason not to trust her. You are a lucky man. I hope she can retire soon so you two can enjoy each other even more!


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

Better safe than sorry. 

Show up with some roses! Suprise I love you honey .if she acts pissed then thats a shame. And not much of a marriage.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The only saving grace is her age. If she has never cheated before, she is not likely going to cheat now.


That said.....

Place the VAR.

Why? Your' offer to meet up with her at the hotel [her refusal] is a Red Flag. 

That said.....

67 year old women are still women...very much so. Their stuff works perfectly. 

Place the VAR. You have already purchased one.

Velcro it in place under the passenger seat. Practice with it a few times before placing it. Insert a snipped off earphone cord in the output socket to keep it from accidentally sounding off. That is unlikely to happen, but it will keep @weightlifter off your back!!

Peace of mind is better than agreeing with @peacem on this issue. She is a persuasive lady, mind you.

And yes, TAM makes a lot of us paranoid. Uh.....more paranoid.


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

My advice for now is to not spy, but file this away for now. Be on the lookout for any other suspicious behavior. But it's very possible that it just makes logistical sense to stay in a hotel, and maybe she does just want an evening to herself. Hell, a night in a hotel all by myself sounds amazing to me, and I love my wife and would never think of cheating!

Stay the hell off CWI. I had to learn this the hard way, it'll send you down a dark path. Unless you truly have a reason to be here, don't be here. My wife also has a low sex drive, and as a result the quality and quantity of our sex life can vary to a confusing degree. I decided to take my problem to the internet, and boy oh boy, did I open up a can of worms. The stories I read, the opinions I got from people... it made me extremely paranoid that my wife was cheating. I almost became addicted to reading stories of other people's WS's, and finding ways to identify with them. I spied on her to an almost unhealthy degree, and time and time again, no evidence ever turned up of her cheating. But that just made me think that I wasn't looking hard enough, and that she was really good at concealing her "affair". 

Eventually, I just had to accept the truth, that in a year of snooping and spying, I had ZERO evidence of infidelity. I had to let it go. I am much too cynical to just blindly trust somebody. She might have cheated on me, she might still cheat on me, or she might really be 100% faithful and I'm a complete jackass. I don't really know. Nobody ever thinks it will happen to them until it does, and at the end of the day we can really only control our own actions. But being paranoid is no way to live your life. All you can do is try to be the best husband you can be, and if something does happen, cross that bridge when you get there. But stay off CWI. 

I realize the irony that I'm on CWI right now. I usually stay off this subforum, but the thread title caught my eye and I could identify with it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Spicy said:


> I would NOT worry about this. If I had to do something that late at night 90 minutes away I would definitely get a hotel (and have MANY times.) And I'm decades younger than her. She has never given you reason not to trust her. You are a lucky man. I hope she can retire soon so you two can enjoy each other even more!


We are both still having fun working and plan to work until 70 to maximize our Social Security. We have savings, but still with US Social Security you get a % of your highest 35 years and with her being a stay at home mom for a while, she is still working off a few zero earning years in her average.

I do think I am lucky.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Hold what you hold dear....near.

Guard your stuff.

Keep your back to the wall. 

Be ever vigilant.

Mate guarding is not jealousy, is not paranoia. It is owning what is yours.....and holding it till the end.

What?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Unless she's running a fortune 500 firm or running for president why is she working those hours at 67?


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## podiumboy (Apr 2, 2017)

My grandfather is 80 and works every day. We have a family business and my Grandpa is "retired" and My Dad runs the business, but Grandpa is still there working every single day. Not just doing little jobs here and there, but rather being a full on member of the team that does more than his fair share. Some people just live to work, they love what they do, and if they stop that's when they become worthless and complacent, then they die.


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## hifromme67 (Oct 30, 2016)

I know how you feel. There was another board I was a member of and I had to remove myself. Although everyone means well, they honestly don't know all the nitty gritty details of your relationship. Taking all their advice and what they say is going on can cause you more issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

john117 said:


> Unless she's running a fortune 500 firm or running for president why is she working those hours at 67?



Definitely not Fortune 500 and not running it, but she has been with them for over 20 years has a Doctorate degree and is a Director of a pretty big group with lots of supervisors reporting to her. 

Also the person that had this responsibility quite very suddenly and someone high up in the organization had to step in suddenly as meetings were already set. My wife is hoping to turn it over to someone else sometime this fall, when the other position is filled. 

Yes, she can pull the plug anytime she wants, but she is pretty type A. I have always had a thing for strong women.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OK, I think that I will not do the VAR thing in her car. I appreciate how much more reasonable what she is doing now seem in what others have shared. My inner self wanted to get talked out of it. I hesitated in buying the VAR and felt installing it was really something I would be proud of. Again, thank you.

I will also try to moderate my TAM following, especially the CWI topic.

For those who urged otherwise, there is the old Russian proverb and US Presidential quote:


> Suzanne Massie, a writer on Russia, met with President Ronald Reagan many times between 1984 and 1987. She taught him the Russian proverb, "doveryai no proveryai" (trust, but verify) advising him that "The Russians like to talk in proverbs.


Thank you everyone!


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

My opinion is you must deal with your feelings, not attempt to reason yourself out of them.

Have you considered the possibility of simply telling your wife this scenario is making you uneasy, and making you feel jealous? She should take it seriously and choose actions to mitigate your feelings if she loves you.

Are you actually so guarded with your wife you feel you can't talk to her about your feelings on this?

If she just laughs at you and says you have nothing to worry about and you are a fool to feel that way, then you may indeed have something to worry about.

My wife and I have been married 43 years, and we have done all kind of crazy things. But we have always been very open with each other about our feelings. Or, at least I have always been completely open about mine. I would not hesitate to tell my wife if any issue made me feel the slightest bit uneasy. We would modify our actions to make sure to address it.

Trying to reason yourself out of your feelings is sure to allow your feelings to eat a hole into your heart.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Everything is always a matter of context and where one thing fits into the bigger picture. 


Are there any other changes in behavior or any other signs that set off any red flags or make you go hmmmmm?

Did she put a new password on her phone and takes her phone with her into the bathroom and it never leaves her side? Does she close out the screen on the laptop when you walk in the room? Has she bought a new wardrobe and are you finding new, sexy under garments that she has never mentioned or wore around you? Is she hitting the gym and changing her diet to lose weight and get buffed up? Is she tanning and whitening her teeth that she wasn't doing before?
Is she shaving her lady-bits for the first time in 30 years? Is she always meeting a "friend" or "friends" but never mentions names and never invites you or doesn't want you to meet them? Is she treating you differently and perhaps more critical of you and quicker to anger at you for things that never bothered her before? Does she accuse you of being "controlling" or never letting her see her friends or do anything any time you want to do something with her? 

I could go on but I think you get the point. 

If you are answering 'yes' to these questions, then in context to the bigger picture, her wanting to stay in hotels after work meetings is likely a blinding red flag and a significant warning sign. 

But in the absence of any other signs or any other changes in behavior and no other changes in how she treats or interacts with you, then this new business venture is not in and of itself cause for alarm.

In fact, as you have presented it here, it sounds perfectly reasonable and legit to me. But it's how that activity fits in with other patterns of behavior and other warning signs that differentiates it from a work activity vs a warning sign for an affair.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> 67 year old women are still women...very much so. Their stuff works perfectly.
> 
> .


OK yes, one cannot automatically discount the possibility of an affair due to their but c'mon. Is the executive branch of this company made up of hunky and dashing 75 and 80 year olds??

Are the ambitious, corporate climbers in their 30s and 40s really going to try to hook a 67 year old Sugar Momma or sleep their way to the top with a 67 year old manager? 

I don't mean to sound insulting or dismissive or anything , but unless she's aged like Christie Brinkly, I don't think the corporate playa's and lady's men are going to coming after her with their A-Game after a business dinner . 

One can never say never and it surely has happened somewhere at some point, but some times you have to keep your feet on the ground and keep it real.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Not trying to be rude, but do you think all those young men are wanting to get with your 67 year old wife? Are there any men her age that she works with?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> Your' offer to meet up with her at the hotel [her refusal] is a Red Flag.
> .
> 
> .


Again, look at things in context against the bigger picture - she is a 67 year old, low-desire, post menopausal woman who is putting in 14 hour days. When he is asking if he can meet up with her for a 'booty call', to her that, is just cutting into her rest time and asking her to get cleaned up and do one more thing for someone else at the end of a long work day. 


When looked at in that context, it makes perfect sense that she would be reluctant to entertain him at the end of a 14 hour work day. 

Now that may still be kind of sad and frustrating for him, but it is not necessarily a sign of infidelity.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> TAM has made me a bit paranoid from reading all the stories of people who announce that they have been cheated on and didn't see it coming.


Yes, but many of us did not know back then what we (you) know now. I didn't see it coming, but I can assure you that if I were put into that place again I would see it far easier than I did back then. 

Let it go, don't hover over her. She probably just wants to rest after a long day and it's as simple as that. We all need space from time to time.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I have been blasted............out of the water!

I like intrigue. I guess it shows..

Just Sayiin..

...............................................................................................................

Nope.

Can't let it go.

VAR....Var-nish the telling reflection in her eyes. Seal in the truth. For posterity's sake. Her posterior....your upfront insecurity, your fears. 

You defeat doubt by shining light on it. 

Doubt can be based on nonsensical fears. But, they become THAT after the fact. After the facts are revealed and not before !!

I HAVE SPOKEN..


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My father worked in politics till age 80, my father in law works part time at 85. But not 14 hour days 2 hours away...

I'm 57 and work the occasional long days, but it's not high pressure. 

If she's doing it to finance a world cruise is one thing, but if she's doing it for glory it's quite another...


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

WilliamM said:


> My opinion is you must deal with your feelings, not attempt to reason yourself out of them.
> 
> Have you considered the possibility of simply telling your wife this scenario is making you uneasy, and making you feel jealous? She should take it seriously and choose actions to mitigate your feelings if she loves you.
> 
> ...


That is the kind of mature advice, I want to be able to give myself. Thanks, I shall raise my concerns and be direct about it rather than trying to sneak around them.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

oldshirt said:


> Everything is always a matter of context and where one thing fits into the bigger picture.
> 
> 
> Are there any other changes in behavior or any other signs that set off any red flags or make you go hmmmmm?
> ...


There are no "red flag" yeses. It does seem reasonable and legit to me as well.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Install the VAR ~ she is emanating signs of "probable cause!" And she needs to be "tested" without any knowledge of it! Otherwise, the results of a test would be totally futile!

Notwithstanding, a small, hidden VAR under her car seat is so much more cheaper than employing a part time or full time PI!

Whether she's cheating on you or not, you'll most likely have your final answer!*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> OK, my LD wife of 46 years has a high stress job, that got even more stressful last month as she needs to now meet twice a month with some company stakeholders to get their input on various advisory things. This is a new responsibility with added pay. They sometimes have working meetings after working hours, sometimes have group dinners, and sometimes do both. Most, but not all the meetings are at the company offices.
> 
> She normally works until about 6 pm and gets home around 7 pm. On meeting nights she gets home anywhere between 10 PM and midnight. I and my wife are 68/67 years old. My wife has difficulty driving at night on freeways, but can handle surface roads, which tend to be better lit and slower.
> 
> ...


I would be more concerned about the potential for her employers to abuse the good nature of your wife to be honest.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Are the ambitious, corporate climbers in their 30s and 40s really going to try to hook a 67 year old Sugar Momma or sleep their way to the top with a 67 year old manager?





Thound said:


> Not trying to be rude, but do you think all those young men are wanting to get with your 67 year old wife?


You two really have no idea ... the answer to both of your questions is yes, it happens all the time.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

There is nothing in what you say to raise any red flags, it is only one night with reasonable explanations, I wouldn't consider spying on her yet!


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Red Sonja said:


> You two really have no idea ... the answer to both of your questions is yes, it happens all the time.


True. Not to mention, it might be a guy her own age and they've gotten close, maybe she's not LD for him. 

After reading all the OP's comments, I don't believe there is anything to worry about. But yeah, reading some posts can make you paranoid.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

YoungAtHeart

There has not been one response here that is based on any information that is proven to be the exact truth, and there is not one person here who knows if your wife is up to anything not proper, including YOU. And any one who claims that their opinion is not based on their experiences is full of crap.

As far as this hotel getaway, my opinion is if this is not a regular thing and she has told you where she will be and you see no other red flags like special clothes or "grooming" , this most likely is not something to go haywire over. But I would not make the assumption that because of her age she is not capable of being sexual with anyone else.

Discussing your unease directly with her is one way to have good communication. The only negative is is that is you are wrong you have put her on alert and then you will need to be in CIA mode. Given your thoughts I do not think it is too instrusive to see if you find any sexy underwear or clothes that you have not seen her wear and see what outfit she packs to wear to work the next day. 

There is the old saying TRUST YOUR GUT. Your gut had you post this thread and you know your wife better than any of us. Given your concern you either play ostrich and hope or you deal with it in an other way. You are not going to get the answer here because the opinion here will be divided.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

YaH,

Probably nothing going on? Married 40+ years. Why now?

You didn't wind up at TAM/CWI by chance. Knowing the truth is the only way you will be free.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I don't think you need to VAR her car, but there's nothing wrong with asking her to contact you with some regularity.

Why don't you ask her to call you from her hotel before she goes to sleep? When I travel for work and have to stay in a hotel, I call my husband every night before either I go to sleep or when I know that he will be going to sleep.

Regular communication helps.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Satya said:


> I don't think you need to VAR her car, but there's nothing wrong with asking her to contact you with some regularity.
> 
> Why don't you ask her to call you from her hotel before she goes to sleep? When I travel for work and have to stay in a hotel, I call my husband every night before either I go to sleep or when I know that he will be going to sleep.
> 
> Regular communication helps.


I know plenty of couples that do this. Wife goes out of town for work, and calls hubby every night before bed.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Install the VAR ~ she is emanating signs of "probable cause!" And she needs to be "tested" without any knowledge of it! Otherwise, the results of a test would be totally futile!
> 
> Notwithstanding, a small, hidden VAR under her car seat is so much more cheaper than employing a part time or full time PI!
> 
> Whether she's cheating on you or not, you'll most likely have your final answer!*


FoooWheeeewhooo!

Finally................ my back-up arrived.

I am out of bullets. Never out of imagination. 

Never say never...I must remember that.
.........................................................................................................
What? What was it I was sayin' ?
.........................................................................................................
Why invite problems when none exist?
-Problems stimulate old bones.....uh, careful how you interpret THIS, you naughty fools.
.........................................................................................................

Pssst! VAR her. And don't tell the other posters. PM me with the outcome.
Mums the word with your Wifey/Mum.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

arbitrator said:


> *Install the VAR ~ she is emanating signs of "probable cause!" And she needs to be "tested" without any knowledge of it! Otherwise, the results of a test would be totally futile!
> 
> Notwithstanding, a small, hidden VAR under her car seat is so much more cheaper than employing a part time or full time PI!
> 
> Whether she's cheating on you or not, you'll most likely have your final answer!*


I gotta agree.

One thing I've learned along this journey is to trust my gut ... it's like my inner "red alert" system that goes off when it senses something "off". It may turn out to be something minor, but it's not nothing (I know ... double negative) otherwise you wouldn't have been compelled to post this question on an infidelity forum. I have no problem with the direct approach either, but the VAR seems to be good insurance in the "trust buy verify" department.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Young at Heart, it sounds like you really love and cherish your wife. Few men would have concern enought to call and order her room service when she's out of town to make sure she's eating right. Very few men...

And I'm sure she recognizes this and loves you for it. 

I read through this whole thread and I share the opinion that you are jumping the gun a bit. Even though her recent actions seem odd, they don't amount to much. Generally when a person is cheating or getting ready to they will behaving in a litany of ways and start grooming and doing thing to show they are preparing to do so. From what you have written, it doesn't seem like her behavior has changed much. Cheaters generally follow a pretty standard script: they start isolating themselves, act sneaky, hide their phone, start losing weight, start staying out more, start dressing differently... 

I dunno. I say you keep the communication open and just trust her. To your knowledge she has never cheated on you in all the years you have been married. That is a good sign that she probably never would. 

And yes TAM could make anyone paranoid. We are the Island of Misfit Toys. SunCMars is the Charlie in the Box.... I'm the Spotted Stuffed Elephant.... 

Just trust your gut and watch her. And back off some....don't be so damn needy. It's not attractive.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

bandit.45 said:


> Young at Heart, it sounds like you really love and cherish your wife. Few men would have concern enought to call and order her room service when she's out of town to make sure she's eating right. Very few men...
> 
> And I'm sure she recognizes this and loves you for it.
> 
> ...


Thank you. I will back off. I will talk to her about my concerns and tell her I would like her to call me when she leaves her meeting and arrives at the hotel or prior to going to sleep.

Again, thanks everyone. Just a flash of paranoia.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

I worked with a guy who claimed he would skype with his wife for hours every evening when traveling for business. He claimed he had the computer on the stand next to the bed and would talk to her into the night and fall asleep while talking to her.

I know he would carry the laptop around in the morning to show his wife the sights from the roof of the hotel and such.

At the time I thought it was a little weird, but now, maybe I think not so weird.

I would sext with my wife each night, and we would get off that way. But Mary doesn't hear very well, so skype and the ilk is useless for her.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> OK, I think that I will not do the VAR thing in her car. I appreciate how much more reasonable what she is doing now seem in what others have shared. My inner self wanted to get talked out of it. I hesitated in buying the VAR and felt installing it was really something I would be proud of. Again, thank you.
> 
> I will also try to moderate my TAM following, especially the CWI topic.
> 
> ...


Why not just put the var in the car for your own peace. Place it then pull it out after the over night. No harm no foul. Then you can lay your suspicions to rest for good.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

You're backing off the VAR because you really do not want to know. If she is meeting anyone you can bet your ass she will talk to him on the phone in the car before or after the business meeting. If, and I say if, she is up to no good she may even be telling a girlfriend who may have to cover for her.

If she is doing nothing the VAR will tell you that in no time.

And this advice of asking her to call you before bed time is silly. I am no expert on infidelity forums, only have been on two, but telling hubby good night and then letting OM in room is not something that does not happen very often.

So I say thrust the gut that compelled you to ask an infidelity forum their opinion, and stop wondering. Get the answer.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Every trip my wife or I am away from each other for training or work, we talk for about an hour every night after the one of us gets back to our rooms. In fact there hasn't been a day in 15 years I haven't talked to my wife at the end of the day at least for 15 mins.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I am not entirely sure this belongs in CWI.

This contains many other issues such as: Should you be happy about your wife's employer's taking advantage of her knowledge, skills and good nature?


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Young at Heart said:


> Thank you. I will back off.* I will talk to her about my concerns* and tell her I would like her to call me when she leaves her meeting and arrives at the hotel or prior to going to sleep.
> 
> Again, thanks everyone. Just a flash of paranoia.


NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Please don't go down the "I'm just concerned" path. Just be the best H you can be, eyes and ears tuned, and put the stupid VAR in place for a few weeks to settle you mind for good. 

Many here (me included) never would of dreamed our W could/would cheat. I did the "I'm concerned soft confront" and got exactly what I deserved ... denial, tears, "how could you think that of me". Was she having and affair... of course.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

RWB said:


> NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
> 
> Please don't go down the "I'm just concerned" path. Just be the best H you can be, eyes and ears tuned, and put the stupid VAR in place for a few weeks to settle you mind for good.
> 
> Many here (me included) never would of dreamed our W could/would cheat. I did the "I'm concerned soft confront" and got exactly what I deserved ... denial, tears, "how could you think that of me". Was she having and affair... of course.


Totally agree. Place the VAR. Your peace of mind to know for sure she's faithful is priceless.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

I'll just say that if I had a dime for every person who said they ignored their gut and ended up regretting it, I'd be very well off.

Never ignore your gut when it's talking to you, OP.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Maybe nothing but I would go online and check the phone bill


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> Thank you. I will back off. I will talk to her about my concerns and tell her I would like her to call me when she leaves her meeting and arrives at the hotel or prior to going to sleep.
> 
> Again, thanks everyone. Just a flash of paranoia.


Does she know you are on TAM, and that several people here recommend VARS and other spying methods?

I would confess to her that you were considering doing that to her. That will surely be hard to hear, but it could yield a very productive conversation between you two.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

jld said:


> Does she know you are on TAM, and that several people here recommend VARS and other spying methods?
> 
> I would confess to her that you were considering doing that to her. That will surely be hard to hear, but it could yield a very productive conversation between you two.


She has no clue as to either what TAM is or that I am on it.

I talked to her over the weekend, we had some special connection time doing a lot together at my initiation. 
She knows I am concerned about her being away. She agreed to call me when she gets to the hotel and before she goes to bed. She reaffirmed that it is the late night driving that scares her and she understands that I want her to be with me and beside me in our bed.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> She has no clue as to either what TAM is or that I am on it.


 You posted because your gut put you on alert. Thus, do not tell her about TAM, as you may need us in the future. 

One way to help you better figure out what is going on is for you to ask yourself what would she do and how would she act if she were planning to cheat on this trip? Then ask yourself is she doing these things? For example, did she take or wear sexy underwear for this trip that she does not usually wear? Did she just get her hair done prior to this trip? How is she dressing and what did she pack to wear? Did she reserve a low cost room just to have a place for her to sleep, or did she get a fancy room that does not make sense if no one else is going to see it? If your gut tells you to be on alert, then listen to it and be on alert.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TRy said:


> You posted because your gut put you on alert. Thus, do not tell her about TAM, as you may need us in the future.
> 
> One way to help you better figure out what is going on is for you to ask yourself what would she do and how would she act if she were planning to cheat on this trip? Then ask yourself is she doing these things? For example, did she take or wear sexy underwear for this trip that she does not usually wear? Did she just get her hair done prior to this trip? How is she dressing and what did she pack to wear? Did she reserve a low cost room just to have a place for her to sleep, or did she get a fancy room that does not make sense if no one else is going to see it? If your gut tells you to be on alert, then listen to it and be on alert.



For example, did she take or wear sexy underwear for this trip that she does not usually wear? 
She really doesn't own any what I would call sexy underwear. Fanciest panties are black granny styles. In the past I have tried to buy or have her buy some. She has told me "You didn't marry a ****, don't expect me to dress like one."


Did she just get her hair done prior to this trip? Nope. She did go out and get her eyebrows waxed, but she does that on a pretty regular basis.


How is she dressing and what did she pack to wear? I will know that tomorrow.

Did she reserve a low cost room just to have a place for her to sleep, or did she get a fancy room that does not make sense if no one else is going to see it? From her description it sounds like a lower end to typical room for the place. I offered to have room service send up morning coffee as bringing her coffee is kind of a ritual I do for her. She said the place doesn't have room service.

I suspect it is just my paranoia


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Young at Heart said:


> I suspect it is just my paranoia


“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> For example, did she take or wear sexy underwear for this trip that she does not usually wear?
> She really doesn't own any what I would call sexy underwear. Fanciest panties are black granny styles. In the past I have tried to buy or have her buy some. She has told me "You didn't marry a ****, don't expect me to dress like one."
> 
> 
> ...


I am sure of it!

This woman is 68 years old and has been faithfully married for over 40 years. I cannot believe the idea of her cheating is being discussed with a straight face.

If she says she is too tired to face traffic, I see no reason to doubt her.

And I still think you should show her this thread.

If you are still seeing that marriage counselor, show it to him or her, too.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

jld said:


> I am sure of it!
> 
> This woman is 68 years old and has been faithfully married for over 40 years. I cannot believe the idea of her cheating is being discussed with a straight face.
> 
> ...


You think 68 is to old to cheat? Nursing homes have one of the fast growing population getting std's

Trust the gut. Trust but verify. Keep you mouth shut unless you find hard clad evidence!


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

chillymorn69 said:


> You think 68 is to old to cheat? Nursing homes have one of the fast growing population getting std's
> 
> Trust the gut. Trust but verify. Keep you mouth shut unless you find hard clad evidence!


I do not think his wife is a cheater. Not one bit.


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## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

jld said:


> I do not think his wife is a cheater. Not one bit.


Good for you! 

But I still say trust but verify!


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

OK, she left for work and her over-night at a hotel. The VAR is in my truck not her car. I decided that I do trust her as she has never given me a reason to not trust her.

Furthermore, from what I have read, cheaters tend to go it a lot and so sooner or later, I would find multiple things to make me suspicious.

We have talked about my concern for having her at home in our bed beside me at night. How she likes it when we spend quality time together and I do acts of service for her, like coffee in the morning, helping her cook dinner at night and bringing her a glass of wine after dinner. She promised to call me tonight and talk about her day with me before we go to sleep.

Again, I chalk this up to my paranoia. I need to spend more time of the "Long Term Success In Marriage forum/topic and less time reading the CWI topic.


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## MyRevelation (Apr 12, 2016)

YaH,

A few weeks ago, you and I had a disagreement on a topic that you clearly didn't have a clue about what you were posting about. You had read all of the corporate/legal propaganda and took it as gospel, whereas, I had real first hand knowledge of the subject both then and now. 

I also have first hand knowledge of what its like to be cheated on by the person I trusted most of all, and I ultimately found out over nothing more than an initial "gut instinct", and that is not something I would wish on any man ... well, if I'm being completely honest, maybe 1 or 2. Anyway, I truly hope you know your W better than what you know about current business fraternization practices.

Good Luck to you.


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## manwithnoname (Feb 3, 2017)

Young at Heart, I think many on here who have been betrayed had the "gut" feeling, but I think yours is different. Yours, I believe, is artificial, and was created by your reading of the CWI threads. It is a fear in the background, making you wonder "what if".

From what you say, she is not exhibiting any suspicious behavior. 

It's up to you if you use a VAR in the future.

But absolutely do not show her this thread, or talk about what you were thinking of doing. Very bad advice in my opinion.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@Young at Heart I've been there done that in terms of being cheated on by my ex-wife almost 26 years ago and as a consequence ended that relationship.

yet from all that you have posted on this, I would not be worried about it.

If I were your wife and her age I to might also be rather reluctant to drive that distance after dark either. Plus likewise would be reluctant to want my spouse to do the same to come and be with me for that evening.

My (2nd) wife and I celebrated our 18th wedding anniversary 2 days ago, yet on occasion it's nice for me to be away from her and the kids for a day or 4 when I sometimes am away for work. Just as it's sometimes nice for my wife to be away from the kids and I for a day or 3 when she sometimes travels for work.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I am generally a pessimist (I choose to call it 'pragmatic'), but it sounds to me like you are just being paranoid here. Reading this forum for a while could definitely have that effect on you. I do think you should quietly check in on your spouse's activities, though, if your gut says you should. It's simple risk management - they literally hold your future in their hands. 

Props to you for a long and successful marriage. It's a big job, which I failed at.


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> OK yes, one cannot automatically discount the possibility of an affair due to their but c'mon. Is the executive branch of this company made up of hunky and dashing 75 and 80 year olds??
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well, now that is just downright insulting!

I'm 65 years old and just as sexy as I've ever been, I don't look my age at all, and relate very well to 30, 40 and 50-year-old men. 

You need to realize that women aren't dead at that age, as a matter of fact many of them look and feel better than they were when they were younger. 

Many young men love to be around women that age that exude strength and confidence. 

You need to expand your mind. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## dianaelaine59 (Aug 15, 2016)

Thound said:


> Not trying to be rude, but do you think all those young men are wanting to get with your 67 year old wife? Are there any men her age that she works with?




Ugh! Read my reply to "old shirt". 




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

dianaelaine59 said:


> Ugh! Read my reply to "old shirt".
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

dianaelaine59 said:


> I'm 65 years old and just as sexy as I've ever been, I don't look my age at all, and relate very well to 30, 40 and 50-year-old men.
> 
> You need to realize that women aren't dead at that age, as a matter of fact many of them look and feel better than they were when they were younger.
> 
> Many young men love to be around women that age that exude strength and confidence.


 Case in point. The newly elected President of France, who just won the the nation's vote by almost 2 to 1, is 39 years old and his wife (the new First Lady of France) is 64 years old. Yes you heard me right, the new in coming President of France is 25 years younger than his wife.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

shrug. I see one yellow flag and no red flags. Maybe she just wants to chill alone. it is the most likely answer.

My only spy advice is simple. Never say she could never do it and start discounting any true red flags. You have a literal army of experienced people here to help if any big red flags come up. ATM. I dont see much.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

TRy said:


> Case in point. The newly elected President of France, who just won the the nation's vote by almost 2 to 1, is 39 years old and his wife (the new First Lady of France) is 64 years old. Yes you heard me right, the new in coming President of France is 25 years younger than his wife.


I'm sure he will be in TAM in a year or so complaining 😎


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Young at Heart said:


> Again, I chalk this up to my paranoia. I need to spend more time of the "Long Term Success In Marriage forum/topic and less time reading the CWI topic.


Does anyone post there? That one is a ghost town! :rofl:


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## thedope (Jan 3, 2017)

Not to be rude but how often to 70 year old women cheat? Seems unlikely, also might be time to consider retirement and enjoy golden years.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

thedope said:


> Not to be rude but how often to 70 year old women cheat? Seems unlikely, also might be time to consider retirement and enjoy golden years.


".....Baby Boomers Gone Wild! Seniors and STDs
Why are the numbers of STDs skyrocketing in seniors?...."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201403/baby-boomers-gone-wild-seniors-and-stds


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

thedope said:


> Not to be rude but how often to 70 year old women cheat? Seems unlikely, also might be time to consider retirement and enjoy golden years.


Apparently, you're a bit naive about it. 

DW and I winter in a large resort community that has over 100k active residents over 55. Needless to say, it attracts plenty of singles (women and men) who aren't there for wheelchair activities. 

You may like to think so, but being older doesn't mean you stop living or stop enjoying sex.


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## skerzoid (Feb 7, 2017)

"I don't mean to sound insulting or dismissive or anything , but unless she's aged like Christie Brinkly, I don't think the corporate playa's and lady's men are going to coming after her with their A-Game after a business dinner ."

I am exactly the same age as the poster, been married 46 years, we have the best sex of our lives now that we have time for it, and I find her just as sexy as always. She looked like Marylin Monroe when she was 18 and 50 years later she's still gorgeous. You are mostly full of crap. And I never take her for granted. She still turns heads when she walks into a room.

Here's a true story. We went on an Alaska cruise to celebrate our 45th anniversary. You are expected to dress up at least once and dine with the captain. We did. My wife looked spectacular. I was just trying to keep up. As we were leaving, a woman at the end of the captain's table said to my wife, as we walked out, "Honey, you look fabulous!" Not wanting to miss out on the complements, I asked, "And how do I look?" She answered, "Buddy, you look lucky."


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It's not a question of her looking great. I know a few 65+ women that look stunning. It's a question of who else looks great and is 20 years younger and can be considered an ego boost.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Young at Heart said:


> ".....Baby Boomers Gone Wild! Seniors and STDs
> Why are the numbers of STDs skyrocketing in seniors?...."
> 
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-and-sex-in-the-digital-age/201403/baby-boomers-gone-wild-seniors-and-stds


From the comments section:

_"I looked at the raw numbers of e.g. syphillis, chlamidia, and gonorrehea in the CDC data. What you are calling "spreading like wildfire" translates to movement from one small fraction of one percent to a slightly higher fraction of one percent. If this is a wildfire, get me an eyedropper and I'll put it out."_


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