# I’m drowning and he’s sleeping



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

I’m a self employed horse facility owner. Divorced. My parents moved back in with me, to help me keep the family farm. 

My boyfriend and I have been friends for along time and started dating about a year after my divorce. My ex and I split custody of our son 50/50, so when I didn’t have my son, I’d spend a few days a week at his house, but most of the time is spent at mine. For the last 6 months he’s lived with me 99% of the time, while his roommate pays his utilities and part of his mortgage. My boyfriend works 4, 10 hour shifts a week and doesn’t pay any bills at my place. Sometimes he gets groceries, cooks maybe a couple times a week. He lets me use his tools (since my ex took most of them.) He occasionally helps out around the farm when I just can’t muscle my way through it. He’ll take my farm truck to work so he can pick up a load of feed or whatever which is a huge help, but he also benefits from not having to buy fuel and put miles on his expensive tires etc.

I do 98% of the farm maintenance by myself and have previously prided myself in doing all the “man work”. Last year, I started getting really sick and was just recently diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. With treatment, I’m starting to feel better but I’m just so overwhelmed with all the projects that need to be done which was made worse by severe storm damage. It’s really impacting my business, and clients are jumping ship. I’ve had horrible luck; one disaster after another. I’m just drowning. 

We recently had a discussion about him either needing to pay rent or help with farm maintenance and I can tell that he seems resentful about it because he wants to be able to work on his cars and take it easy on his 3 days off. I get it, and I really try not to ask too much. When he does help, he won’t do much on his own.. like I have to be there to fetch stuff etc., when he is perfectly capable of doing it alone (like I do most of the time) instead of me being able to work on other projects that only I’m capable of doing and he does it begrudgingly and acts totally put out especially when I’m on a deadline (fighting against the weather and no, I can’t wait and leave hazards laying around from half finished projects for horses to get hurt on) so I can’t wait till he feels like doing it. 

I’m 5’8 and 117lbs. I have horrible orthostatic hypotension, and atrial flutter with a heart rate staying in the 110-120bpm a day. Not to mention, I’ve lost a lot of muscle tone and strength, deal with joint pain and swelling. When I feel decent, I put in 16,000 - 25,000 steps a day. For example, In the last 2 months I’ve replaced 20 wood fence posts, much of which were broken at ground level with the concrete 95% all by myself and no one to play gofer or hold things.

I work my butt off when my body isn’t busy attacking itself. I’ll work 10-12 hour days outside in the heat and then come inside and see him asleep by 9pm when he usually gets home by 6:30. Then he gets easily annoyed if I want to watch a little tv to unwind (my parents are watching the other TV’s) when he is trying to sleep. 

I know i must sound like the most whiny, entitled person ever but I need help. I wish he didn’t have to, but if he isn’t paying bills I can’t afford for him to do nothing while it costs me a ton of money everyday these projects go unfinished. I’m afraid we’ll never get to spend any time together! My clients have volunteered a little but they require babysitting too. Everyone sees me out there working my butt off, and will ask me (where’s boyfriend? Why isn’t he helping you?!). I feel like it’s blocking a lot of would be helpers because they assume he does. 

Am I being retarded here? I feel like I can’t always trust my emotions with all the stress in my life, and I’m concerned. I’m doing my best to not try and take all my frustrations out on him.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## FeministInPink (Sep 13, 2012)

Your boyfriend sounds like dead weight to me... basically living in your place for free. And he doesn't care enough to make an effort to help out more when you're dealing with your medical issues, and could possibly lose your business/livelihood/farm if you can't get everything done. When do you get to relax? It doesn't sound like to get to. And if he would pitch in, you and he would be able to spend some quality time together.

He doesn't sound like much of a partner. And this is what it will be like if you guys ever choose to make a permanent commitment. I get the impression that he's intentionally doing a half-assed job with an attitude when he does help so you won't ask him to help anymore, which is manipulative (which is emotional abuse).

Some people are most certainly going to respond that it's your farm and your business, so it's your problem and not his. That he already has a job that is 40 hours a week and he has the right to do what he wants on his time off. And they would be right. 

And in response, I say, he can do that at his own house, where he is paying the bills. If it bothers him that you watch TV after you finish your work because you need to unwind, that's his problem, because THIS IS YOUR HOUSE AND YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT IN YOUR OWN HOME WHEN YOU'RE NOT DOING BACK-BREAKING WORK.

You can't make him help you, and you can't make anyone do anything. BUT you do get to have limits and boundaries, and you do have the right to say to him, "If you are basically living at my house, then you need to pull your weight, either by helping out more (without the attitude and starting to demonstrate a little more competence), or by paying your fair share so I can hire someone to help out around here. If you are not willing to do that, then you need to take your stuff and move back into your own home, because your lack of contribution is costing me both financially, emotionally, and physically. I need someone who is going to be committed and who will help lift me up and contribute in a meaningful way to my life, and you aren't doing that right now." And then you need to stick with it. If he whines that he can't afford to maintain his own place AND contribute financially with you, then he's not invested in this relationship long-term, because there are other options. He can rent out his home to cover his mortgage so he can move in with you full-time, if he sees a future with you. 

This sounds like a make or break situation for you, and I don't think that he's cut out to be with you long-term. Basically, I think that he's taking advantage of the situation while avoiding a larger commitment, because getting involved with helping you with the business implies a commitment, that he is in for the long haul, and he understands what that means and is willing to go all-in. I think he does understand what this means, and he is intentionally NOT getting involved because he doesn't want to be a person who owns and runs a farm. He may want to be with you, but he doesn't want everything that goes along with it, and he is avoiding it as much as possible.


----------



## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

What is the endgame here @cashybum , Is your health going to improve enough for you to run your facility properly or are you going to be permanently playing catch-up. How much of the work do your parents help with and are they paying their own way. 
As for your boyfriend,he needs to go back to his own place.He has it good,free board and lodging with you while someone else pays his mortgage. Nice work if you can get it.


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

FeministInPink said:


> this is what it will be like if you guys ever choose to make a permanent commitment.


Yes You have been given fair warning.... Please, whatever you do, don't make the mistake of thinking you can change him. He is who he is, and he is going to remain who he is. Please don't make a "project" out of him.



FeministInPink said:


> Some people are most certainly going to respond that it's your farm and your business, so it's your problem and not his. That he already has a job that is 40 hours a week and he has the right to do what he wants on his time off. And they would be right.


My hand is raised to that one. It's not his problem. He is not your hired help. He should not be living with you. He should bear the expense of his own life.



FeministInPink said:


> I don't think that he's cut out to be with you long-term.
> he is intentionally NOT getting involved because he doesn't want to be a person who owns and runs a farm.


 @FeministInPink is very insightful here. Your boyfriend is trying to set boundaries that he can live with, while having a relationship to you. He's establishing limits on what he's willing to do,and what he's not.

He is within his rights to do this. And, you have rights, too. You will not change this man. If you don't accept him, as he is, on these terms, then you should tell him to move on.....and find someone who wants to live your way. He doesn't.


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

TJW said:


> Yes You have been given fair warning.... Please, whatever you do, don't make the mistake of thinking you can change him. He is who he is, and he is going to remain who he is. Please don't make a "project" out of him.
> 
> My hand is raised to that one. It's not his problem. He is not your hired help. He should not be living with you. He should bear the expense of his own life.
> 
> ...


In addition to what TJW stated, I want to add that this is where your own principles and standards come in. You have to decide what you are and are not willing to do and what you are and are not willing to tolerate.

What you expect is NOT too much to expect so once you establish your own standards, then you have to force yourself to accept that he is not the guy for you. Such is life. It was a good try and might otherwise be a good relationship, but you're about more than just the otherwise stuff that is involved.

For you to say "I’m afraid we’ll never get to spend any time together!" is a little disconcerting because it indicates you place more value on having the relationship than you place on scrutinizing the man you're with, when scrutinizing him is what you should be doing during this dating stage. It's what dating is for. You don't decide 'this is permanent' when you're dating someone. Dating is for the purpose of determining if he is the right guy for you, and you base that determination on his actions. From his actions, you determine what is acceptable and what is unacceptable. And his actions are unacceptable.

Something else you have to accept is that you are obviously just a convenience for him. Everything is fine until you need something that doesn't benefit him. The moment your requirements become inconvenient, he gets resentful and demanding. Even the things he does agree to do have to be done at his convenience and to the degree that is most convenient and requiring as little input as possible. Do you see how demanding that is, when you thought you were the one being demanding? There's nothing to say "I get it" about. He's a sulky child who allows for nothing to matter but what he wants. What kind of guy is that to want to spend time with? Send that child away to find himself another babysitter to sleep with. Or tell him he HAS to start paying rent. And then be prepared for him to soon find some excuse as to why he has to spend more time at his own place. All of a sudden, the horses farting keeps him awake at night.

Stop feeling like you are some kind of nuisance to him. Stop feeling afraid to ask for the help you need. Stop thinking you shouldn't be asking because the only problem here is that you HAVE to ask, as opposed to him making himself readily - and happily - available to help you out. He should be coming home from work asking "What do you need me to do around the ranch today?" There might even be some occasions where he negotiates the time frame for things that are not really urgent. He might even negotiate making himself available each evening after work for 2 or 3 hours and still have his 3 days off to do as he pleases. But no. He doesn't WANT to help out. He doesn't WANT to be supportive. He just wants his playtime. That includes playing house with you.

Again, you stating "I’m afraid we’ll never get to spend any time together!" really makes me uncomfortable for your sake so if you're the type of woman who feels like some man is better than no man, then resolve yourself to the man you have because there's no advice and no potion anyone here can give you that will turn him into the man you need him to be. Believe that he is the person he's showing to you. You're really ignoring that, which is something we women have an awful tendency to do. You don't see it and you're not accepting it. You're afraid you are being a bother to him when he should have prevented you from feeling that way right from the start, and especially once you became ill. He should be offering to help out and not be demanding and sulky about it.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I guess my opinion is different than others. Your boyfriend has a job that he works 40hrs a week for. This farm is your job and your choice and only you own it. In my opinion he does help out, just not as much as you would like. I mean what if you didn’t have your boyfriend? You would be doing all this stuff by yourself. I think you need to sell the farm because you clearly can’t handle the load by yourself. 

The other option is talking to him about your future.... is there marriage in the future, maybe he wants to own part of the farm and then he will help you out more. I’m not sure what the answer is but it seems your expecting too much out of him in my opinion.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

cashybum said:


> Am I being retarded here? I feel like I can’t always trust my emotions with all the stress in my life, and I’m concerned. I’m doing my best to not try and take all my frustrations out on him.


I grew up doing a lot of work on a horse farm that bred show horses, gave lessons, and trained them. It was a TON of work that had to be done everyday. I enjoyed it, made lots of friends, and it brings back great memories. I remember scooping sawdust, getting hay from the loft, washing the horses, cleaning the saddles, putting fans in the stall windows during the summer, putting blankets in the winter, carrying buckets of water everywhere, filling puddles with gravel, painting doors, sweeping floors, the list never ended.

There is a saying in the bible that god will not help you unless you ask. Sometimes prayers go unanswered. But usually a community is happy to help their neighbors. Don't be so stubborn and try to do everything by yourself. My description above was a neighbors farm. They lady that owned it was friendly, would always would ask for help, and would gladly put anyone to work that had nothing better to do as a volunteer. Some of my best childhood memories! 

Regards, 
Badsanta


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

This is a bit off topic, maybe not.

Those that work on farms and agriculture have a higher incidence of autoimmune disease and severe allergies. 
If you are allergic to cats and dogs, you can be allergic to horses and their dander.

Exposure to chemicals, especially to pesticides, herbicides and solvents and oils such as motor oil and transmission fluid can make you ill.
Even the additives found in fertilizer and make you sick.

Solvents are very hazardous to your health. Many transmit through your skin into your blood stream. Such as, alcohol, mineral spirits, petroleum distillates, turpentine, benzene, toluene, xylene, perchloroethylene, trichloroethylene, methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), gasoline, and kerosene.

"Round Up" herbicide has recently come under lawsuit scrutiny due to injury use.

Flies transmit disease from animals, and animal feces to humans.

You should get a HTMA test. hair, tissue, mineral (metal) analysis. 
And a antinuclear antibody test, ANA test.

Posted on March 5, 2019 by LPELC admin
Pathogens and Potential Risks Related to Livestock or Poultry Manure
Links to PEDv (Porcine Epidemic Diarrhea Virus).
Microorganisms

Microorganisms (e.g. virus, bacteria, protozoa, and fungi) surround us, on us, and in us; they are ubiquitous and everything in the world is governed by them. They are part of our everyday lives. They influence the the quality of our soil, food grown on that soil, and how our body reacts to that food. They are diverse, ranging from a simple mix of protein and DNA to complex multi-cellular small “animals”. Most environmental microorganisms spend their entire lives as quiet members of their ecological society, but some reach a level of infamy. Pathogens may only represent a very small portion of all microorganisms, but they are often the most visible, thanks to readily reported outbreaks, food recalls, and proliferation of internet news blogs and sites.
What is a Pathogen?

All animals including pets, livestock, wildlife and humans, are possible hosts of potential human pathogens. We will focus on pathogens originating from livestock and poultry that might be transported to humans via air, water, soil, crop, and fomites (inanimate objects) contacted directly or indirectly by manure.

Especially Zoonotic Pathogens

There are four general classes of zoonotic pathogens:

viruses
bacteria
protozoan parasites
helminth parasites

Zoonotic viruses are those found mainly in animals that cause disease in people who come into contact with the animal or share a vector (transmitter of disease) like a mosquito (West Nile Virus is a virus of birds which mosquitoes carry and can transmit to people). Viruses can only multiply when they are inside a host cell.


Until very recently, it was considered that most fecal or urine transmitted viruses of livestock were not zoonotic, but things have changed somewhat in recent years, and we are now in a steep learning curve as to how important ruminants and poultry are as reservoirs of these zoonotic viral agents.


Zoonotic bacterial pathogens are, like all bacteria, single celled microorganisms that can survive and, under favorable conditions, reproduce in terrestrial and aquatic environments. The zoonotic bacteria are those that typically cycle in domestic animals without causing disease in their typical hosts. However, when they get transmitted into people, the disease that is produced can be severe.


Examples of zoonotic bacteria are Salmonella spp., strains of Escherichia coli such as E. coli 0157:H7, Listeria monocytogenes, and Campylobacter spp.

Zoonotic protozoan parasites, are protozoa that are found in other animals and which can infect people. There are basically two roles that humans can play in this scenario. They can be accidental hosts in the life cycle of the protozoan, where the protozoan undergoes the same development in the human as it does in its normal reservoir host. Or, the human may be an intermediate host in the life cycle of the parasites, just like any other vertebrate; in this case, the reservoir host shed many stages into the environment with the goal of infecting as many intermediate hosts as possible.
.............................................................................................................

I suspect if you leave the farm and become a city gal your health will improve dramatically. 

Just a thought'





[THM]- SunCMars


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

SunCMars said:


> This is a bit off topic, maybe not.
> 
> Those that work on farms and agriculture have a higher incidence of autoimmune disease and severe allergies.
> If you are allergic to cats and dogs, you can be allergic to horses and their dander.
> ...




You are probably right in some respects. Unfortunately though, it’s just who I am. I love the country life and love what I do. It’s what I’m good at. I am a lot more conscious of how I handle chemicals, dusts and such  ..... as I smother the bottom of my fence posts in roofing tar and diesel fuel 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

He's your boyfriend, not your husband. The farm is your asset, he has no ownership of, or responsibility to, your asset. In other words, you shouldn't expect your boyfriend to help you maintain your property or run your business. 

That said, if he's not going to contribute a set $$ amount per month to household expenses or do the equivalent in physical labor then he needs to move back to his own place because it's not your responsibility to provide him food, shelter, utilities, etc. for free.

There is a reason farming families were huge. It takes a lot of physical labor to maintain a large rural property and business. If your health doesn't allow you to do that physical labor as required and your finances don't allow you to pay for laborers and handymen, then you may seriously need to consider selling the property and finding a home and employment that you are physically capable of maintaining long term.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Whatever the outcome with bf, you should play close attention to your health. Without that, as you know, nothing matters.

Very impt; try and forecast a real financial future status of your equine facility slash farm.

If ran perfectly will that support you, parents, provide a pathway for future retirement?

How close are you to the circumstance of "if you were in the hospital a week, would the facility survive"?

How close to the edge is the business? Would three days of flu in bed tilt it over?

How can you add to the resiliency and robustness of the business?

Is there a variation of your business model that is more financially attractive?

Notice I'm not saying anything about the bf.

He works, he should stay at his house more unless you keep asking him to stay over, date him if you want.

If you're not getting married, and it sounds like he's not the one under present information, just date him if you want, but he's not going to change, and that's not his failure, it's just him, unrealistic to expect him to act like a fiance or H that's invested in a family business. 

With him staying at his place date or break up or anywhere in between. 

It's YOUR call on the relationship. It's only been a year, less as a closer couple even.

Yes, some good men would help out more on your farm while working their own 40 plus hrs week job, career, but if the relationship isn't going anywhere most would taper and fade away from a work day and night relationship where the relationship could end by the gf anytime, anyway.

Why would they dedicate potentially unended time working furthering "not their business/not their income stream they have no control over" and no future plan to become a legal part of the team?

If there was love, passion, marriage discussions, future building discussions, etc going on between you two, that would be a totally different story.

But I'm getting that he's a guy your dating, stays over at your place a lot because at some point you asked him too, and he's not acting like a husband and partner.

He has to move out, you have to "un-ask" him to stay over all the time.

Then date or not, or break up. Your call.

Good luck!

I grew up rural, and worked long, tough hours on farms, horses, cattle, crops etc.
It's tough but rewarding however a good business plan has to be in place, too.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

He has his own job. Having said that, however, He should be contributing either financially or physically to earn his keep at your place. 

Would you let a roommate or boarder get away with this? Living there for free?


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

lucy999 said:


> He has his own job. Having said that, however, He should be contributing either financially or physically to earn his keep at your place.
> 
> 
> 
> Would you let a roommate or boarder get away with this? Living there for free?




He does. He buys groceries and helps out at the farm.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

Girl_power said:


> He does. He buys groceries and helps out at the farm.


Meh doesn't sound like much to me. If it were me I'd want cash money. I.e. rent. But I'm not the OP.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

cashybum said:


> You are probably right in some respects. Unfortunately though, it’s just who I am. I love the country life and love what I do. It’s what I’m good at. I am a lot more conscious of how I handle chemicals, dusts and such  ..... as I smother the bottom of my fence posts in roofing tar and diesel fuel
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've known multiple farmers who've gotten temp and even perm sick from "properly handling" treated seeds, fertilizer, manure treatments, solvents, disinfectants, diesel fuel, etc over time.

I myself with a crew cropping tobacco got sick from pesticide properly applied, dried, residue reactivated by heavy dew, unexpectedly. Luckily that passed. 

Please don't be oblivious to the very real cautions advised here.

I bet others outside this forum have advised the same. 

Don't let blinders on approach destroy your health. 

I might be way off here, only you know how it's really going. 

Best,


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> I guess my opinion is different than others. Your boyfriend has a job that he works 40hrs a week for. This farm is your job and your choice and only you own it. In my opinion he does help out, just not as much as you would like. I mean what if you didn’t have your boyfriend? You would be doing all this stuff by yourself. I think you need to sell the farm because you clearly can’t handle the load by yourself.
> 
> The other option is talking to him about your future.... is there marriage in the future, maybe he wants to own part of the farm and then he will help you out more. I’m not sure what the answer is but it seems your expecting too much out of him in my opinion.



I could handle the load and I have a really hard time giving it all up after I fought tooth and nail to keep my place in my divorce. H e l l, I made 50k more the year my ex moved out! I know I can do it.. I just need a little more help. I can’t mentally live a life planning for an unpredictable illness. 

You’re right! He has his own job and hobbies. My ex was the hardest working man in existence and was just as ambitious as I am. He worked a 40hr week office job and came home and worked on barn stuff because I didn’t know how to build and fix back then. He got burned out and went totally crazy. When he told me i should just give him the farm or sell it in the divorce, It lit a fire I didn’t know I had! I learned to weld built my own stuff... and I freaking loved it! Who knew?! But at the same time, I feel a lot of clarity and guilt now that I know what it was like to be in his shoes and I don’t want that happening to my boyfriend and would never expect anyone near that. I’m also somewhat offended that my boyfriend helped my ex out more! (They used to be friends... yes i know it sounds awful). My boyfriend knows how stuff was done, and what can be done better. He’s the only one I can really trust to know what to do. Barn helpers, God love them, usually cause as many issues as they help with or end up costing me as much as hiring it done professionally... even when it comes to stuff like painting lol. 

After having the “put out, or get out” talk with him so to speak, I asked him if there were certain kinds of things he’d rather help out with: equipment maintenance and tractor mowing. Great! Except I’m using the tractor everyday to work on my arena fencing.  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

lucy999 said:


> Meh doesn't sound like much to me. If it were me I'd want cash money. I.e. rent. But I'm not the OP.




I think that having him in her life is better for her than not having him in her life. I don’t think he is dead weight.
She already asked him to contribute more... that’s all she can do. She needs to decide if she wants to keep him or not.


----------



## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

This farm is your passion, it is not his. He doesn't sound like marriage material. Find a man who will fall in love with YOU and your FARM. 

This man is dead weight. Cut him loose.

Watch how fast available men will show up to help you with your farm. 

Men who want to be with you and are used to that lifestyle.

Hook up with one of them.


----------



## hptessla (Jun 4, 2019)

I couldn't figure out the 'Multi-Quote' so I can't reference particular passages, but in general there's good perspective in the comments. The only thing I didn't see said that I wondered about as I read your post is this:

Could it be that he is not helping much because he sees the farm as a lost cause, but doesn't know how to tell you or doesn't feel it's his place to do so? It doesn't seem like he's shiftless and lazy since he has a job and does help out some on the farm, also he works on his cars so it seems he's mechanically capable/oriented. Maybe he sees you working and working and slipping behind but he also sees your love for the place so it kind of pulls him in two directions...it's pointless to throw money and time at an intransigent problem AND he cares about you and doesn't want to just check out but he can't get into the effort 100%.
I also live in an area with a lot of horse people. They are very enthusiastic about horses, some board theirs and a couple run stables for boarding. The common theme I hear from all is that you have to love horses because you aren't making money off them. That's admirable, but I don't feel the love. Maybe your bf feels the love for you but not so much for your passion for horses?

As far as paying rent, I think you could have a conversation about that with him but it may entail him dropping his rental and moving in with you. It happens more often than we notice that one person keeps a rental going even though they are never there simply because they are also not fully in the other place they stay...doesn't mean they want to be in one place or the other, just doesn't get much thought. It doesn't even have to be an awkward conversation, more a kind of "what are we doing here?" talk.

Those are just my thoughts reading your post. I'm not there living it in either of your shoes though.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Unless the farm is his job, you shouldn't count on him supporting it. There are never-ending projects and it can take an infinite amount of time. You do it because it's your livelihood and you love the farm, but he may not share the same feelings about it. It'd be one thing if you had a normal house and needed help with a project from time to time, but here you really need a full-time employee and he shouldn't have to do that. Think about if the situation was reversed. What if you had a normal job at a bank and then came home and he wanted you to help with his 24 hour convenience store doing stocking, accounting and working shifts at the register. 

But that being said, he doesn't seem like he's being a great boyfriend anyway. Even without the farm stuff, it sounds like he's taking advantage of the situation.


----------



## Tex X (May 17, 2017)

If you're in a temporary work crisis (ie weather damage, losing clients, etc.) I think it's ok to ask your boyfriend for some help to get the holes in the dike plugged. But long term I don't see that as a reasonable expectation. He works a full time job already. You already said that your ex worked a full time job and then helped out a lot on the farm and it eventually drove him crazy. Now you're expecting your current boyfriend to do the same thing. I don't see that ending well. Can you hire someone part time to help out around the farm?


----------



## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

I'm going to sidestep what appears to be the root of your initial post and get to the real root.

Your boyfriend is not engaging with upkeep and projects at your farm as you would like him to do. Don't know if you have discussed it and he's made it clear he won't, or if he even can do what you need done competently. What I do hear is that you are struggling and need help.

You have an autoimmune disease. Based upon your description, and my familiarity with the presumed disease (my mother has it), I seriously believe you need to shift your focus.

Were I someone who cared about you, your boyfriend, your parents ... I'd be telling you, you need to let go of the farm and look after your health.

The time will come where you simply cannot do, or it will be dangerous for you to continue doing what you are doing.

I'm presuming the people who love you, would prefer having you around, over having the horse farm.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

cashybum said:


> I know I can do it.. I just need a little more help.
> 
> I can’t mentally live a life planning for an unpredictable illness.


With respect, you have no choice but to live life planning for an unpredictable illness because you_ have _an unpredictable illness. That is your reality.



cashybum said:


> When he told me i should just give him the farm or sell it in the divorce, It lit a fire I didn’t know I had!


I know this is an idea that probably nauseates you, but your exH may have been right. Please don't hang on longer than you should to spite your ex. 


I understand that you love rural life and you love your farm. I understand that you have sweated, bled, cried, and sacrificed to keep it. The reality is that you have an illness and cannot physically or financially care for the farm by yourself long term because you do not know if your illness will lay you low for days or weeks or even permanently. You've already had clients jump ship. It might be better to sell now, when the farm isn't a complete disaster, than to be forced to sell for less later or to lose the place altogether.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

OP the farm is yours. He should be paying rent and helping with food and his part of bills but anything beyond that is out of the goodness of his heart.

Charge him room and board and see if you can hire help with that. You won't be able to hire a hand with the money you get from your BF.

Your relationship and work boundaries are blurry.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

lucy999 said:


> Meh doesn't sound like much to me. If it were me I'd want cash money. I.e. rent. But I'm not the OP.


Unless she was my marriage objective and she and I were talking along those lines and consciously building a future I'd be staying in my own place, and just be dating her.

I'd be working my career and again, just dating her. I do not need a work supervisor/gf.

Don't misunderstand I'd be helpful but by my decision wouldn't be living with her, I wouldn't be an on demand ranch hand while working my job and living. I don't need another manager to perform unending tasks during all my time off.

It would be different if we were talking about permanency in our future but I've not seen much evidence of that here.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

SecondWind said:


> OP the farm is yours. He should be paying rent and helping with food and his part of bills but anything beyond that is out of the goodness of his heart.
> 
> Charge him room and board and see if you can hire help with that. You won't be able to hire a hand with the money you get from your BF.
> 
> Your relationship and work boundaries are blurry.


He should move out, he has his own place, his own life. 

Go from there, it will clarify things.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> He should move out, he has his own place, his own life.
> 
> Go from there, it will clarify things.


Agreed. That is the ideal move.


----------



## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

cashybum said:


> My ex was the hardest working man in existence and was just as ambitious as I am. He worked a 40hr week office job and came home and worked on barn stuff because I didn’t know how to build and fix back then. He got burned out and went totally crazy. When he told me i should just give him the farm or sell it in the divorce, It lit a fire I didn’t know I had!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Your ex was the hardest working man you knew and even he got burned out, so much so that he went crazy. Do you want your boyfriend to as well? How many relationships are you going to lose in order to keep this farm? How much are you willing to sacrifice? You're in very poor health. The farm is killing you. If you continue on this path the farm is going to be all you have left. Will it be worth it? I'm a woman; I would not stay with a man who dedicated as much time and effort to a hobby as you do. Just think how much better your relationship would be if you put half as much time and energy and effort into your bf. I'm sorry that's harsh but I think you need a wake up call.


----------



## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Where I come from, Horse Farms are a disaster economically. It is a ton of work and makes very little money. 

Had a friend whose wife ran a Horse Farm. It caused their marriage to break up. Everything he made went into keeping the 'horse farm' running. Work was endless. They ended up losing the horse farm and their marriage.

I understand it is a way of life, but it seems the only horse farms that survive are the huge ones. Ones that have enough income to hire help to run the place.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

SecondWind said:


> OP the farm is yours. He should be paying rent and helping with food and his part of bills but anything beyond that is out of the goodness of his heart.
> 
> Charge him room and board and see if you can hire help with that. You won't be able to hire a hand with the money you get from your BF.
> 
> Your relationship and work boundaries are blurry.


Exactly!

Obviously he shouldn't be a farm hand.

But making a couple of meals isn't cutting it. If he is going to spend 99% of his time at your home, he needs to pay for some of its amenities and pitch in on its upkeep (like dishes, laundry, etc). That anyone doesn't get this is unfathomable to me!

And look at what the OP said about him - his roommate at the place he never goes is picking up the bills and most of the mortgage there. So this lucky dude gets to milk two cows for free!

Some of the replies defending this boyfriend are...hypocrisy aqt its finest.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

It sounds like the guy owns a home and has a housemate. I don't think he should pay you "rent" because you both are choosing to spend your time at your place. It's not like he's fully rented out his place and is living with you permanently with no housing is his own, except at your place. 

I disagree that the cost of being your boyfriend is to have to engage in a ton of your farm work. He has a full time job of his own.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

op

I was in a relationship kind of what you are describing. I started dating a gal, and we spent 95% of the time at her place.

her place was nicer then mine and she had a pet that needed to be looked after. Like your BF, I had rent and other financial obligations, worked my butt off.

But I did do things for her. picked up groceries and cooked. cleaned her apartment, did laundry and looked after her pet, even if she was out of town. I always paid when we went out to eat or picked up the tab on "excursions".

after a while she complained I should pay half the rent. like you, she seemed to have the feeling I was getting a "free ride".

so I did a little math. after looking at what I was spending monthly, I was actually out of pocket 2-3x what half the rent was. I asked her if she wanted to split everything 50/50......needless to say...that didn't go over very well.

I hope this helps you maybe understand things from his perspective.

as for EXPEXCTING his help......well you made it clear its YOUR farm....not his.....its not like he is a dead beat, does he not work a 40hour job? seems to me a little gratitude might be in order for the help he does contribute.

just maybe you need to consider this a turning point in the relationship......some have pointed out here maybe keeping your farm isn't reality but wishful thinking. maybe he doesn't want to live that lifestyle. now is the time to figure out what you both want long term and see if you have compatibility or not.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Obviously he shouldn't be a farm hand.
> 
> ...


It sounds like the two of them haven't had the detailed level of contributions OP is looking for as a acceptable yet, not that he's said "I shouldn't pay for certain things" and is being stubborn. 

It sounds like bf is guessing at what to contribute and it hasn't been outlined to him.

For some reason, perhaps he was invited to stay over more, and the whole thing has morphed undefined. 

The expectations of each of the relationship haven't been brought forth. 

That single topic will shine a light on things. 

He has a place. He didn't invite himself to start staying there more.

He's likely guessing on all fronts. And is certainly free to split himself if her future doesn't coincide with his expectations.

What is the hoped for relationship?

Forever bf/gf/ranch hand?

Marriage?

Business partners?


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It sounds like the two of them haven't had the detailed level of contributions OP is looking for as a acceptable yet, not that he's said "I shouldn't pay for certain things" and is being stubborn.
> 
> It sounds like bf is guessing at what to contribute and it hasn't been outlined to him.
> 
> ...


I'm no farmer, but I would bet that lifestyle requires nearly a 24/7 presence. so it seems to me rather disingenuous to say "he stays with me 95% of the time" as her lifestyle doesn't permit anything else.

if he lived entirely at his place chances are they would see each other 80% less.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

Cashybum dating someone like you is difficult, I don't mean to insult you. I was raised a farm kid and as an adult became involved in the horsey world, so I know the life. Your lifestyle is 24/7, most people don't understand that and most want nothing to do with that kind of obligation. Your boyfriend has no choice but to stay at your place because you can't leave your place, too many chores. When was the last time you went away for the night? Or a weeks vacation?

Your boyfriend did not chose that life, you did. For you to expect him to help around the farm is wrong. Do you ever go to work to help him? You need someone willing to embrace your lifestyle, your boyfriend likes you but not the farm life. If you want a man to help you hire someone, or find a boyfriend from Farmers.com


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Obviously he shouldn't be a farm hand.
> 
> ...


Don't pull me into your ring. It is not as easy as what you are saying. It's more like what Ragnar said below your post. The BF is not "milking two cows." The relationship morphed without clear discussions. Kind of like when a city grows without planning. It becomes a disorganized mess.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Obviously he shouldn't be a farm hand.
> 
> ...


instead of thinking of it as "defending the boyfriend"...how about this......taking everything a poster says as verbatim and 100% accurate....is nothing short of ignorant.

there is always two sides to a story. for me, it almost seems like there is a huge gender based rush to judgement going on here when in reality people need to slow down and sort out more facts.

posters, male or female, tell things from their perspective and that doesn't make it gospel. its also human nature to paint a picture, skewing the perception to get the desired response to reinforce what their view of the situation is...based in reality or not.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> Some of the replies defending this boyfriend are...hypocrisy aqt its finest.


Is calling people hypocrites for having a different opinion than you acceptable for this site? I've seen this a lot here, especially by this poster.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

SecondWind said:


> Is calling people hypocrites for having a different opinion than you acceptable for this site? I've seen this a lot here, especially by this poster.


I think its the "new norm".

sadly, rather then coming here to learn or think about things from a different perspective, way too many just get all offended and insulted and dig their heels in rather then looking at the situation from both sides. True, there are posts that are pretty obvious as to which direction it should go, but most aren't.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Agreed unfortunately it seems like every thread not gets bogged down with personal insults and attacks on the poster themselves not the points they are making. If you think I am wrong ball all means say why, even harshly if you want, I have no problem with that, but that is not what's going on. It belies the purpose of this site. Different options allows the OPs to look at things from different point of views. I for one have faith in the posters to be able to take what they need and ignore the rest.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Agreed unfortunately it seems like every thread not gets bogged down with personal insults and attacks on the poster themselves not the points they are making. If you think I am wrong ball all means say why, even harshly if you want, I have no problem with that, but that is not what's going on. It belies the purpose of this site. Different options allows the OPs to look at things from different point of views. I for one have faith in the posters to be able to take what they need and ignore the rest.


I guess that depends on if the OP comes back. too many times side bar arguments, harsh treatment of differing opinions, runs off the OP...….or of course the reality sinking in that the OP's original view isn't receiving the chorus of applause they are looking for...and the kitchen get's a little to hot and they're out.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

OP I think you are treating your boyfriend like he is your husband, but he really doesn't have that kind of commitment to you. I think he is willing to help you to a point but he doesn't want to assume the role of co-owner of a farm, especially with the financial commitment or even possible reward that would come from that. 

The thing is he is your boyfriend he is really under no obligation to do that. And in the same vain you are under no obligation to provide him free room and board of even continue a relationship with him. Unfortunately I think you have kind of put the cart before the horse so to speak in the sense that you, I'm sure with the best of intentions, have kind of put him in a position in your life that he just seems unwilling to fill. And in doing so have given him a lot of support financially by letting him live with you for free. 

I suggest you get this all out in the open. My first thought would be to ask him to start helping out financially. Let him know you need the money to keep the farm going or you both will be out on the street. And don't feel guilty about it. That seems perfectly reasonable.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

x598 said:


> I guess that depends on if the OP comes back. too many times side bar arguments, harsh treatment of differing opinions, runs off the OP...….or of course the reality sinking in that the OP's original view isn't receiving the chorus of applause they are looking for...and the kitchen get's a little to hot and they're out.


All the discussions can be had without the personal attacks though. It's just bad form. Plus OP doesn't care about what the motives of the other posters are. They are here for advice, they should expect some good and some bad. We are not experts and this is a public forum.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

sokillme said:


> OP I think you are treating your boyfriend like he is your husband, but he really doesn't have that kind of commitment to you. I think he is willing to help you to a point but he doesn't want to assume the role of co-owner of a farm, especially with the financial commitment or even possible reward that would come from that.
> 
> The thing is he is your boyfriend he is really under no obligation to do that. And in the same vain you are under no obligation to provide him free room and board of even continue a relationship with him. Unfortunately I think you have kind of put the cart before the horse so to speak in the sense that you, I'm sure with the best of intentions, have kind of put him in a position in your life that he just seems unwilling to fill. And in doing so have given him a lot of support financially by letting him live with you for free.
> 
> I suggest you get this all out in the open. My first thought would be to ask him to start helping out financially. Let him know you need the money to keep the farm going or you both will be out on the street. And don't feel guilty about it. That seems perfectly reasonable.


I disagree with this. Boyfriend owns a home!!! Has a mortgage of his own!!! He just stays over at gf house a lot because she needs to be at her home.

He's not living for free. 

They will not "both be out on the street"

It sounds like he does contribute to cover the water and electricity he probably uses.


----------



## a_new_me (Dec 27, 2012)

If he is living with you, he should be contributing 50/50 to the needs in the house, such as cooking and cleaning.

He should be helping pay utilities because he is using them. He should be paying for what he eats.

As per rent, I do not think that he should be paying anything towards that. I think if he starts paying rent and since you are common law that would give him and entitlement to some of the value of the home when/ if there is a break up of the relationship. Something to look into because that varies depending on where you live.

As per the farm, that is your business, so keep him away from it because you do not want him working on it with you and then having tight him for that in court if you ever break up.

You really should set up a cohabitation agreement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

x598 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly!
> ...


 Honestly, if you don't think people who post are telling the truth, why the heck even respond? Why even be on a forum except when both parties are on the forum? If you are not going to believe what people post, responding is basically stupid.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

"Like your BF, I had rent and other financial obligations, worked my butt off."

Reading comprehension red pill sweetie. Her boyfriend doesn't pay rent or bills. He is roommate foots most of the mortgage and the bills at the place her boyfriend is hardly ever living app anymore. I get that you think the woman is always badd in the man is blameless, but your ignorance on this thread is loud.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Lol not worth it


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like the guy owns a home and has a housemate. I don't think he should pay you "rent" because you both are choosing to spend your time at your place. It's not like he's fully rented out his place and is living with you permanently with no housing is his own, except at your place.
> ...


Maybe you need to read. I did. Boyfriend's roommate pays part of the mortgage. Part. 

Part.

Part.

He's *not* renting out his whole house and living with his gf as his primary residence.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

One thing to keep in mind about splitting costs is that he's also occasionally helping out around the farm. Since that's her business, then it would be fair to pay him for that work. We don't have the full financial breakdown or anything, but it could be that the hours he spends helping out on the farm balance out the utilities he uses when he stays over.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> * Reading comprehension red pill sweetie. *Her boyfriend doesn't pay rent or bills. He is roommate foots most of the mortgage and the bills at the place her boyfriend is hardly ever living app anymore.* I get that you think the woman is always badd in the man is blameless, but your ignorance on this thread is loud*.


WTF??


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> Honestly, if you don't think people who post are telling the truth, why the heck even respond? Why even be on a forum except when both parties are on the forum? If you are not going to believe what people post, responding is basically stupid.


ok let me spell it out....try to keep up.

people lie to THEMSELVES all the time. People "fudge" the facts or "overamplify" situations to garner support for their positions.

even when called out on it......that's when the justifications come in to play. 

You seem to believe I think all women are bad......yet my opinion on this thread would be NO DIFFERENT if the OP was male, and not only that but there are other's here that are also telling the OP opinions akin to mine.

sorry you have a problem with me looking at issues people bring up from a different perspective, but that's often key to getting opinions that are helpful to the situation, even if it doesn't come out the way the OP wants it, male or female.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If my girlfriend owned a farm and she fell ill with an autoimmune disease, I'd bust a gut to help out around the farm in any way I could.

But, maybe that's just me?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Livvie said:


> I disagree with this. Boyfriend owns a home!!! Has a mortgage of his own!!! He just stays over at gf house a lot because she needs to be at her home.
> 
> He's not living for free.
> 
> ...


And my point was she should ask him to contribute or leave. He is obviously there a lot if he rents out the home he owns. Presumably she wanted him to stay at some point so he is not some freeloader who just decided to camp out. Out on the street or not sounds like she is struggling with the upkeep of the farm, if he moves out maybe she can rent the guest house to a hired hand or use the rent to pay for one. Or he can pay rent and then she pays for one. Things in life change, circumstances change arrangements. They are dating, each of them is free to change their mind at any time.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> If my girlfriend owned a farm and she fell ill with an autoimmune disease, I'd bust a gut to help out around the farm in any way I could.
> 
> But, maybe that's just me?


 This is because of the kind of man you are. Emphasis on the word man.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> If my girlfriend owned a farm and she fell ill with an autoimmune disease, I'd bust a gut to help out around the farm in any way I could.
> 
> But, maybe that's just me?


I would rather pay rent. Farm work is HARD! :grin2:


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

sokillme said:


> I would rather pay rent. Farm work is HARD! :grin2:


I'd pay rent and do the work.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> I'd pay rent and do the work.


Does she look like Sophia Loren? >


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> If my girlfriend owned a farm and she fell ill with an autoimmune disease, I'd bust a gut to help out around the farm in any way I could.
> 
> But, maybe that's just me?


I like this and agree. the issue seems to be though that he does indeed pitch in.....the controversy is how much is enough.

another thing I noted is how desperate the plight sounds from the OP.....yet her parents live there too...are they also helping out or is she taking care of THEM?

im just wondering if the OP simply has way more on her plate then is realistic. and instead of downsizing her life.....play the "BF doesn't help enough card" when its even questionable that to do so it might require him working there full time.

what if the BF says "hey babe, doing what I can, sorry its not enough" and decides to leave the relationship? could she manage on her own? with her health issues I doubt it. Now who is being unreasonable?

hopefully the OP comes back.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> I'd pay rent and do the work.




Why? So your going to work a full time job, come “home” to a place that you pay for but have no rights or ownership to, and continue to work hard physical labor while being unpaid for a business you have no rights or ownership to??!! That’s dumb.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Why? So your going to work a full time job, come “home” to a place that you pay for but have no rights or ownership to, and continue to work hard physical labor while being unpaid for a business you have no rights or ownership to??!! That’s dumb.



you must hate women :laugh:


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Why? So your going to work a full time job, come “home” to a place that you pay for but have no rights or ownership to, and continue to work hard physical labor while being unpaid for a business you have no rights or ownership to??!! That’s dumb.


It's not dumb, it's what you do for the love of your life who is sick.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> It's not dumb, it's what you do for the love of your life who is sick.


If she is the love of your wife why haven't you put a ring on it? Huh? HUH??? :nono:


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> It's not dumb, it's what you do for the love of your life who is sick.




Wow. Love of your life?
They are dating. Relationships are suppose to be beneficial to both people. How is she benefiting him? If you sustained a life like that it won’t be long before resentment kicks in and you start hating her. When do they even have time for each other? What about him? He will be too tired to even have sex. Plus she had a kid from another man that she needs to spend time with... what about him and his needs!?


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Wow. Love of your life?
> They are dating. Relationships are suppose to be beneficial to both people. How is she benefiting him? If you sustained a life like that it won’t be long before resentment kicks in and you start hating her. When do they even have time for each other? What about him? He will be too tired to even have sex. Plus she had a kid from another man that she needs to spend time with... what about him and his needs!?


To be fair he is living there for free.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > It's not dumb, it's what you do for the love of your life who is sick.
> ...


Why are you so invested in this?


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

sokillme said:


> To be fair he is living there for free.




No he’s not. She wants him there. If he wasn’t there they wouldn’t have a relationship. She needs him way more than he needs her. He is free labor, to me that is not living for free.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> Why are you so invested in this?




Bc I feel bad for the guy! He seems like a really good guy and people are roasting him on here. He works hard and gets no credit. I am a huge feminist and I see so much man hating going on here.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Wow. Love of your life?
> They are dating. Relationships are suppose to be beneficial to both people. How is she benefiting him? If you sustained a life like that it won’t be long before resentment kicks in and you start hating her. When do they even have time for each other? What about him? He will be too tired to even have sex. Plus she had a kid from another man that she needs to spend time with... what about him and his needs!?


dang careful GP trying to see things from the other side gets you labeled as a hater around here.

but I agree with you 100%. The OP came here complaining about what she thinks he should be doing, and to me, sounds completely disrespectful of what he actually does do.

maybe there is a good reason he is limiting their time together...……..I mean I guess if I was with a woman who basically expected me to be her farm hand at whatever she doles out as she see's fit...….I think I'd have second thoughts too. 

never mind his full time job, his responsibilities and so forth. Hey, its all about HER 

I am very sorry she has fallen ill and cant keep up. but something has to give and to me it sounds like she has WAY to much on her plate.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Bc I feel bad for the guy! He seems like a really good guy and people are roasting him on here. He works hard and gets no credit. I am a huge feminist and I see so much man hating going on here.


QFT.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> No he’s not. She wants him there. If he wasn’t there they wouldn’t have a relationship. She needs him way more than he needs her. He is free labor, to me that is not living for free.


Well that is very cynical way to look at it. You have no idea what he would say she brings to his life. 

I don't think this situation is as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I think like I said circumstances have changed and OP needs to say what she needs and let him decide if he is willing, and then if they can work together to find a compromise. 

I just wonder if she feels guilty about it an therefor is resentful. For all we know he may have no idea she is struggling so much and be very willing to help her.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

I work 40 plus hours awake and have nearly a 3 hour commute. I work my butt off. My husband works 50 hours a week and some of his work is physical. Since we both work our butts off, that means neither of us have to clean the house or buy groceries or do anything for the household, right? Because if you work hard away from the home, that means you don't have To do anything where you live. Dang, I've been getting the shaft doing all this laundry lol


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Why are you so invested in this?


Hi let me introduce you to kettle. 0


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

sokillme said:


> Well that is very cynical way to look at it. You have no idea what he would say she brings to his life.
> 
> I don't think this situation is as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I think like I said circumstances have changed and OP needs to say what she needs and let him decide if he is willing, and then if they can work together to find a compromise.
> 
> I just wonder if she feels guilty about it an therefor is resentful. For all we know he may have no idea she is struggling so much and be very willing to help her.


I wouldn't say cynical.....but I would say it is a very LOGICAL way to look at it.

and does it matter what she brings to his life? not trying to be a jerk....but I am saying maybe the care deeply for each other......but this is just a situation of a country girl with a city guy......and it just aint gonna work. I mean green acres was fantasy land and in the real world it never works out.....no matter how much they love each other.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

sokillme said:


> Well that is very cynical way to look at it. You have no idea what he would say she brings to his life.
> 
> I don't think this situation is as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be. I think like I said circumstances have changed and OP needs to say what she needs and let him decide if he is willing, and then if they can work together to find a compromise.
> 
> I just wonder if she feels guilty about it an therefor is resentful. For all we know he may have no idea she is struggling so much and be very willing to help her.




It sounds to me that he is resentful because he gets no appreciation for what he Does do and all she does is think about what more he can do, and not even what he can do, but what he SHOULD do and I disagree with that attitude.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

x598 said:


> dang careful GP trying to see things from the other side gets you labeled as a hater around here.
> 
> but I agree with you 100%. The OP came here complaining about what she thinks he should be doing, and to me, sounds completely disrespectful of what he actually does do.
> 
> ...


Except he is there for a reason and unless you want to believe he is there for free rent and she has him there for free work then I think it's a good assumption that they both have feelings for each other. 

What this is is two people who are in a relationship that need to renegotiate a little as circumstances have changed. But OP has to talk about it with him because most partners are not mind readers, and yes sometimes you have to hit people in the head with it. I mean just say "Look I need you to start picking up some tabs because I am struggling right now". That will be the test, since he is living there for free and presumably he wants to be there with her I don't think that is much to ask. But it's a good test anyway. The worst he can say is no and at least OP will know where she stands.

Unfortunately OP is probably long gone. I am not surprised with the quality of posts around this place of late. 

You know it's a problem when I am the voice of reason around here.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> I work 40 plus hours awake and have nearly a 3 hour commute. I work my butt off. My husband works 50 hours a week and some of his work is physical. Since we both work our butts off, that means neither of us have to clean the house or buy groceries or do anything for the household, right? Because if you work hard away from the home, that means you don't have To do anything where you live. Dang, I've been getting the shaft doing all this laundry lol


Except she never says he doesn't do anything you said that.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

The projection on this thread is like a movie palace.


----------



## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Girl_power said:


> sokillme said:
> 
> 
> > Well that is very cynical way to look at it. You have no idea what he would say she brings to his life.
> ...


Yeah, I bet a lot of boyfriends have felt that way from time to time lol


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

IMO, don't mix your business with the relationship, they should be separate. You're mixing up stuff you can reasonably expect of someone, like helping with household chores, with your business (that's just how your writing comes across, my interpretation). He should be helping out with his share of household stuff, but 'chores' on the farm are different. That's him working for free for your business. That's fine for things here and there, but on a regular basis, it's not okay.

You've let him stay at your place with no input into the household expenses. That's building up in your head as a debt owed to you, but I bet it's not in his. So when you do the above, in his mind I bet he's thinking how I've described it, and his free board so far (and possibly ongoing), doesn't come into it. That debt owed to him will build up over time in his own mind. What will make it worse though is that you'll be making money off his free labour.

What this will lead to is a great feeling of inequity on both sides. At the end of the day you have to do something about it because it'll probably end rather badly.

If you want him to pay board, figure out an amount, see if you can come to an agreement you both feel is fair. If you want him to work for board and he agrees, figure out how much he is worth hourly (more than an inexperienced farm hand I'm guessing), and how many hours per week he needs to put in. Give him particular tasks that are his responsibility from that point on.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, she can offer free room to someone else in exchange for labor. Rent isn't cheap.


OP, ask yourself just what is he contributing to your life.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm confused why people think the boyfriend should pay rent. His girlfriend's place isn't his residence. He has a house he still maintains. If he rented his house out fully = could no longer live at his house, and hey place became his only abode, then I'd certainly think he's need to pay rent. But not in a situation where they both have houses but stay at one due to the nature of the farm situation.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

@cashybum the more I think about your thread and the idea of you asking your BF to pay rent or do more chores the more I think he is going to move back home and let you take care of your farm yourself.

The only reason he is staying at your farm is because he is in a relationship with you. He has a perfectly good home of his own and a full time job. He doesn't need your money or shower.


----------



## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

Livvie said:


> I'm confused why people think the boyfriend should pay rent. His girlfriend's place isn't his residence. He has a house he still maintains. If he rented his house out fully = could no longer live at his house, and hey place became his only abode, then I'd certainly think he's need to pay rent. But not in a situation where they both have houses but stay at one due to the nature of the farm situation.


Personally I don't call it rent, I call it board. My understanding of the difference is that you pay rent for the right to live in a place, and you pay ALL the expenses on top of that amount (electricity, food, gas, water etc).

Board is covering your share of the expenses you incur while living at a place. So if someone is living at your house while keeping their own place somewhere for the occasional night, they are incurring expenses. They are using your electricity while they are not using theirs. They are eating your food generally. They are using your gas if you have gas, but not their own. They are using your water (we pay for water where I live), not their own. They are causing wear and tear on your house, but not theirs (not that this is generally taken into account though). So at the end of the day, your bills go up, and theirs become minimal.

Among the people I've ever associated with, generally it's considered appropriate to contribute to the expenses of the place you are living (whether you officially call it that or not, if it walks like a duck etc etc) and do their share of housework.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

AliceA said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm confused why people think the boyfriend should pay rent. His girlfriend's place isn't his residence. He has a house he still maintains. If he rented his house out fully = could no longer live at his house, and hey place became his only abode, then I'd certainly think he's need to pay rent. But not in a situation where they both have houses but stay at one due to the nature of the farm situation.
> ...


I can get on board with him paying for board.

She has her parents and a child living there, too. I'm sure his actual use- percentage wise- of water, electricity, gas, isn't all that much. He's one person out of 5 there.

I'm wondering if the amount of farm chores he does already more than covers the actual cost of him being there.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Livvie said:


> I'm confused why people think the boyfriend should pay rent. His girlfriend's place isn't his residence. He has a house he still maintains. If he rented his house out fully = could no longer live at his house, and hey place became his only abode, then I'd certainly think he's need to pay rent. But not in a situation where they both have houses but stay at one due to the nature of the farm situation.



The only reason he hasn’t fully rented out his house is because I don’t have a good enough shop. His house at least has a two car garage and concrete driveway for him to work on. I personally want a giant shop too, but he’d have to sell his house in order to build one here because I have other business goals that take priority. However, I’m probably his only shot at ever having his dream shop in the foreseeable future. Of course the other probable reason is that he can “hide” from me at his house and do whatever he wants and not be asked to help out.

On the other hand, at my house, he doesn’t have to pay any utilities, spends a lot less on food, and half his meals are ready when he gets home from work. He gets help with his laundry. The other big plus for him, is his 2 German Shepherds (one of which is the daughter of my female GSD) have a great place to stay. His yard is TINY and he works 10 hour shifts with a 45 min drive one way. I also feed the dogs (he buys the food). His dogs have lived here pretty exclusively for the last 3 years. Even though they can be a pain in the butt, I’d miss them terribly if they left.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

I really don’t understand the expectations here, including from many posters. I agree that he should help out with groceries and incidental expenses or utilities, as well as some chores given the amount of time he spends there (which it sounds like he is already doing). And if he’s not covering a fair share of groceries/utilities etc. that’s a perfectly reasonable conversation to have.

But the idea that he should pay rent or be responsible for a significant amount of the work around the farm seems ridiculous to me.
He is a boyfriend. Not a husband, not a fiancé. He holds no stake or ownership in or responsibility for your farm or your home. You do not appear to be at a point of solidifying a life together and permanently merging your lives and assets.
- He has his own home which he is financially responsible for and pays for (the fact that he has a roommate to help cover the mortgage is completely irrelevant). It appears his home is still his primary legal residence, even if he spends most nights at her house. 
- It seems he spends most nights at your house because he wants to see you and you want him to be there.
- He has his own full-time job, And it’s not the farm. Again, it’s good for him to help you out a bit (which it sounds like he does) but not his responsibility to take on significant farm work.
Now, if you were married or engaged - it might be a different situation. If you were planning to combine your lives and your assets, then there might be a different set of expectations.
As for now, he is a boyfriend. Not a husband. Not trying to be callous but at this point he does not owe you that level of financial partnership or that much of his labor for your farm.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

DudeInProgress said:


> I really don’t understand the expectations here, including from many posters. I agree that he should help out with groceries and incidental expenses or utilities, as well as some chores given the amount of time he spends there (which it sounds like he is already doing). And if he’s not covering a fair share of groceries/utilities etc. that’s a perfectly reasonable conversation to have.
> 
> But the idea that he should pay rent or be responsible for a significant amount of the work around the farm seems ridiculous to me.
> He is a boyfriend. Not a husband, not a fiancé. He holds no stake or ownership in or responsibility for your farm or your home. You do not appear to be at a point of solidifying a life together and permanently merging your lives and assets.
> ...


This is a valid point up to like a year. Somewhere around 15-18 months living together, that starts to change a little doesn't it? When does there start to be expectations of some unspoken commitment these two have made? Dogs are there for 3 years almost exclusively. He would be himself if there was a shop on property. 

I'll take the middle ground and say both of them aren't really itching to change the status of their relationship. So, they need to sit down and discuss this issue. He may feel exactly as you just laid everything out and doesn't think anything of it beyond that. To be honest, it doesn't sound like their priorities are each other first as it stands. I get that feeling anyway. Like FWB that just so happen to live together. Thats just how it all reads to me anyway.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

AliceA said:


> IMO, don't mix your business with the relationship, they should be separate. You're mixing up stuff you can reasonably expect of someone, like helping with household chores, with your business (that's just how your writing comes across, my interpretation). He should be helping out with his share of household stuff, but 'chores' on the farm are different. That's him working for free for your business. That's fine for things here and there, but on a regular basis, it's not okay.
> 
> You've let him stay at your place with no input into the household expenses. That's building up in your head as a debt owed to you, but I bet it's not in his. So when you do the above, in his mind I bet he's thinking how I've described it, and his free board so far (and possibly ongoing), doesn't come into it. That debt owed to him will build up over time in his own mind. What will make it worse though is that you'll be making money off his free labour.
> 
> ...




That’s a good way of thinking about it. I know he doesn’t have a ton of disposable cash.... and now neither do I with both of my money makers damaged in a storm. I pay the slightly more than half of the bills.. and my parents pay a portion. My goal after my divorce was to be able to pay my own way on my own so that I would never have to worry about staying in a crappy relationship in fear of loosing my farm... nor do I want to rely on my parents! My arena will be paid off in 2 years and will be able to pay everything all by myself. I want to share my life with someone too though, but i want it to be icing on the cake. With that said, I wont ever make enough to be someone’s sugar momma lol. I just ask that he doesn’t cost me a ton of time and money, and if he does, pay me back with time or money. One of my big life goals is to have live on site farm help and no, I don’t mean a husband. 

However, this is a farm. Urgent matters pop up on a semi frequent basis. Horses tear down fences, pipes bursts, horses get loose, storms blowing in, fire.... all hands on deck type scenarios that this person has to be prepared to help with. He did take off a half day of work one day after the big storm to help with the massive clean up.. which he stepped up and helped without complaint. I don’t want to use and abuse him. I’d love to have a shop where he can work on his cars, I can pop in, grope him a little and be on my merry way... if I need a few minutes of help with something heavy he’s there and take 5-10min of his day I’d be happy. At the same time, I’m happy to help him too if I can (I don’t know much about cars though... and what I do know is mostly about diesels). 

It’s not all puppies and rainbows. I figured after 13 years, he’d know that. (


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

cashybum said:


> The only reason he hasn’t fully rented out his house is because I don’t have a good enough shop. His house at least has a two car garage and concrete driveway for him to work on. I personally want a giant shop too, but he’d have to sell his house in order to build one here because I have other business goals that take priority. However, I’m probably his only shot at ever having his dream shop in the foreseeable future. Of course the other probable reason is that he can “hide” from me at his house and do whatever he wants and not be asked to help out.


Wow. Why on earth would he give up his house and build something on your property?

He is staying at your house so much because you have a farm and you can't be at his place. He's not hiding from you when he goes home. He lives there. Isn't that where he goes to work on cars? You have your farm. He has his cars. 

I think you expecting him to work on your farm is unreasonable. 

He may not be paying for water and electricity, but he is paying for other things and he does help you out.

You are grasping at ways to save your farm and you seem to think that is your boyfriend's responsibility, but it's not.

You appear to be obsessed with saving your farm because of something your ex said. Yet it is wrecking your health. It wrecked your ex-husband's health and now you are looking for a replacement work horse. Your perspective is unhealthy and it's likely going to wreck your entire life.


----------



## shorton (Nov 21, 2014)

My advice is to sell the farm while real estate is high and go do something else, move, whatever that will be easier on your health. Your story was similar to my ex wife’s, she and my kids struggled to handle our farm after we divorced. Last year, she sold it and had enough money to buy outright a new smaller house in town. I was upset initially but thankful after she did. My kids had a great younger childhood, but they were exhausted. Now, they have a good life.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

cashybum said:


> I’m a self employed horse facility owner. Divorced. My parents moved back in with me, to help me keep the family farm.
> 
> My boyfriend and I have been friends for along time and started dating about a year after my divorce. My ex and I split custody of our son 50/50, so when I didn’t have my son, I’d spend a few days a week at his house, but most of the time is spent at mine. For the last 6 months he’s lived with me 99% of the time, while his roommate pays his utilities and part of his mortgage. My boyfriend works 4, 10 hour shifts a week and doesn’t pay any bills at my place. Sometimes he gets groceries, cooks maybe a couple times a week. He lets me use his tools (since my ex took most of them.) He occasionally helps out around the farm when I just can’t muscle my way through it. He’ll take my farm truck to work so he can pick up a load of feed or whatever which is a huge help, but he also benefits from not having to buy fuel and put miles on his expensive tires etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

cashybum said:


> My ex was the hardest working man in existence and was just as ambitious as I am. He worked a 40hr week office job and came home and worked on barn stuff because I didn’t know how to build and fix back then. He got burned out and went totally crazy. When he told me i should just give him the farm or sell it in the divorce, It lit a fire I didn’t know I had! I learned to weld built my own stuff... and I freaking loved it! Who knew?! But at the same time, I feel a lot of clarity and guilt now that I know what it was like to be in his shoes


 Although you feel “guilt” that your ex, who you feel “was the hardest working man in existence”, worked a 40hr week as well as worked the farm until he was “burned out”, in your mind the farm was always all yours. Although your husband was working for what he thought was “us” (you and him), in reality it turned out that you thought that he was working for you. 

Your new boyfriend, who used to be your ex’s friend that helped him with the farm work saw this, and does not want that to happen to him. I do not blame him. As long as you value the farm over your partner, you will always have issues with partners, no matter who they are, or how hard working they are. You call it “ambition”. I am guessing that your ex and boyfriend would call it something else. You need to look at yourself, and ask if what you are doing now will really result in you being happy long term.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

@cashybum this is relationships. What you are describing is pretty typical. You want to find out where your relationship will go then you need to talk about it and clearly state what you need and what you expect and let him decide what he wants to do. 

Have the talk.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

TRy said:


> Although you feel “guilt” that your ex, who you feel “was the hardest working man in existence”, worked a 40hr week as well as worked the farm until he was “burned out”, in your mind the farm was always all yours. Although your husband was working for what he thought was “us” (you and him), in reality it turned out that you thought that he was working for you.
> 
> Your new boyfriend, who used to be your ex’s friend that helped him with the farm work saw this, and does not want that to happen to him. I do not blame him. As long as you value the farm over your partner, you will always have issues with partners, no matter who they are, or how hard working they are. You call it “ambition”. I am guessing that your ex and boyfriend would call it something else. You need to look at yourself, and ask if what you are doing now will really result in you being happy long term.


This is an excellent post. Pretty telling actually. When you put it this way if I were him I would just pay rent. Between OP and her parents the farm will never be his, he will always just be a worker. Not sure I would want that deal. 

Thread winner right here.


----------



## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

@cashybum, let us know how it turns out. I'm always interested in knowing if my perceptions are correct or wrong.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@OP: You said that your “boyfriend helped my ex out more! (They used to be friends... yes i know it sounds awful)”. You also said that your ex “got burned out and went totally crazy”. Did part of what you call your ex being crazy for, involve him asking if you and his then friend (your now boyfriend) were in a relationship, either emotional, physical, or both? If so, being completely honest in looking back, was there any truth to this suspicion? In relations to your boyfriend, I have a good reason in asking this.


----------



## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

personofinterest said:


> I work 40 plus hours awake and have nearly a 3 hour commute. I work my butt off. My husband works 50 hours a week and some of his work is physical. Since we both work our butts off, that means neither of us have to clean the house or buy groceries or do anything for the household, right? Because if you work hard away from the home, that means you don't have To do anything where you live. Dang, I've been getting the shaft doing all this laundry lol


poor you:crying:


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

cashybum said:


> We recently had a discussion about him either needing to pay rent or help with farm maintenance and I can tell that he seems resentful about it because he wants to be able to work on his cars and take it easy on his 3 days off. I get it, and I really try not to ask too much. When he does help, he won’t do much on his own.. like I have to be there to fetch stuff etc., when he is perfectly capable of doing it alone (like I do most of the time) instead of me being able to work on other projects that only I’m capable of doing and he does it begrudgingly and acts totally put out especially when I’m on a deadline (fighting against the weather and no, I can’t wait and leave hazards laying around from half finished projects for horses to get hurt on) so I can’t wait till he feels like doing it.


So you've got a *deadbeat* boyfriend who EXPECTS a free ride at your place and on your dime for doing the absolute bare minimum, I guess he thinks he's so much of a prize that his mere presence alone should be enough for you.

If I may ask, what is so SPECIAL about a guy who takes advantage of a woman and just like a PARASITE, feeds on his 'host' and uses her for a free ride? What could you *possibly* find appealing or attractive about that?


> I’d love to have a shop where he can work on his cars, I can pop in, grope him a little and be on my merry way... if I need a few minutes of help with something heavy he’s there and take 5-10min of his day I’d be happy. At the same time, I’m happy to help him too if I can (I don’t know much about cars though... and what I do know is mostly about diesels).


I see by one of your subsequent posts, you're all about pandering to this guy instead of demanding the respect you deserve, because rather than face what he *really* is and kick his worthless, parasitic ass out the front door, you're thinking of MORE ways to *give give give* while he _*takes takes takes*_. 



> Your new boyfriend, who used to be your ex’s friend that helped him with the farm work saw this, and does not want that to happen to him. I do not blame him.


I *might* be inclined to agree that a DECENT guy might have to worry about this. However, the guy in question has been living there for 6 months and *not contributing anything*. All he wants to do is live for FREE there and have the OP cater to him while he doest NOTHING except play with his cars on the days he's not working or after work.

The guy is a selfish *loser*, OP. Why are you letting a man take advantage of you? Do you honestly think you don't deserve anyone better than this parasite?


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> cashybum said:
> 
> 
> > We recently had a discussion about him either needing to pay rent or help with farm maintenance and I can tell that he seems resentful about it because he wants to be able to work on his cars and take it easy on his 3 days off. I get it, and I really try not to ask too much. When he does help, he won’t do much on his own.. like I have to be there to fetch stuff etc., when he is perfectly capable of doing it alone (like I do most of the time) instead of me being able to work on other projects that only I’m capable of doing and he does it begrudgingly and acts totally put out especially when I’m on a deadline (fighting against the weather and no, I can’t wait and leave hazards laying around from half finished projects for horses to get hurt on) so I can’t wait till he feels like doing it.
> ...


SheStillGotIt...I usually get a kick out of your snarky post but believe you are way off base on this one. The guy does NOT want to be a farm hand. Why is that wrong? Why does that make him a loser?

The OP has been struggling for years trying to make a go of things, it in part ruined her first marriage, it is ruining her health, it has put her in a financial hole. She even had to bring her parents in to help cover her bills, the poor folks should be enjoying their senior years, NOT still carrying their kid.

I think the boyfriend is smart enough to know that NO amount of work is going to solve the problems. He is there to see her (bless him), he doesn't need to sponge off her, he has his own home, his own job, and his own hobbies. He does help out, but it's never going to be enough for the OP.

Cashybum I think your passion has become obsession. I told you this long ago in one of your post, very very few people ever make real money in the horse world. Have you done the math at what it will take to pay off your arena? How many lessons a day for how many years? Have you done the math as to what the business needs to generate real cash flow? Have you ever sat down with a financial advisor and looked at your future? Put a financial plan together with goals and time lines? 

Bottom line OP you are looking for help, physical and financial. Yes there is some sucker out there that would let you drag them into the muck of your life, but your current boyfriend is too smart for that.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Cooper said:


> SheStillGotIt...I usually get a kick out of your snarky post but believe you are way off base on this one. The guy does NOT want to be a farm hand. Why is that wrong? Why does that make him a loser?


I hear you, Cooper and in truth, I wouldn't want to be a farmhand either. And since he *doesn't* want to be a farmhand, that doesn't entitle him to be living on the farm *for free* for the last 6 months, sitting on his dead ass watching his girlfriend bust her butt working her tail off every single day while _he_ does nothing. 

He's not contributing *FINANCIALLY*. He's letting the OP - who is already struggling - be responsible for 98% of the bills (with help from her parents). Big whoop - he's occasionally picked up food and paid for it (how *big* of him) so that's why the OP says she's responsible for 98% of the bills. He's got his own place but his roommate is paying half the mortgage and likely the utility bills if the guy wants heat and lights, so Mr. Wonderful has NO EXCUSE to be mooching off the OP whether he has someone paying half his mortgage or not. And if he can't afford to financially contribute, then he should be working on the farm to contribute to his room and board. The guy thinks he lives at a freakin' hotel because everything is just magically done for him or handed to him and he has to do precious little - and pay nothing - in order to have it handed to him. But that's the OP's fault for pandering to him. But it still says a whole LOT about his complete lack of character.

Like I said, I don't blame him for not wanting to be a farmhand. But I *WILL* blame him for being a damned mooch taking advantage of a sickly woman whose been overly generous towards his lazy ass for far too long while he's contributed *nothing* in return and has done only the barest minimum to help out only because the OP had to make a stink about it.



> The OP has been struggling for years trying to make a go of things, it in part ruined her first marriage, it is ruining her health, it has put her in a financial hole. She even had to bring her parents in to help cover her bills, the poor folks should be enjoying their senior years, NOT still carrying their kid.


I agree *100%* that this farm seems to have sapped the OP dry and is slowly doing her in. Sometimes you have to know when to fold your cards and walk away from the table. I couldn't agree more.



> I think the boyfriend is smart enough to know that NO amount of work is going to solve the problems. He is there to see her (bless him), he doesn't need to sponge off her, he has his own home, his own job, and his own hobbies. He does help out, but it's never going to be enough for the OP.


If he doesn't "need" to sponge off her, then why *IS *he? The only thing he's 'smart' enough to know is how to t*ake advantage* of a woman who seems to want him around no matter how disrespectful he's been toward her, letting her pay all the bills and do all the work while he sits on his dead ass or plays with his cars and lets her do everything.

When you have to have a Come to Jesus talk with some guy and *tell *him he's got to start contributing or get the hell out (like the OP had to do with Mr. Wonderful) what does that TELL you about his character????

While you say her boyfriend is 'too smart' to be dragged into her mess, it reminds me of the joke people say when someone bums a cigarette off them. They say, "oh, you didn't stop SMOKING cigarettes, you just stopped BUYING cigarettes." That's the same kind of logic you can say about her boyfriend - he doesn't want to be farmhand, but he sure as hell doesn't mind living on the farm and taking full advantage of everything he's *getting* from it.

And that's why I say he's a *loser.* Any supposed man who continually mooches off a woman when he _knows _she's struggling financially and he _knows_ her health is compromised and she's having a hard time physically, yet expects everything to be done FOR him while he contributes nothing, is a Class A loser.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

If he doesn't want to be a farm hand then he has no business living with a woman who owns one. It's part of the package. Just as a corporate executive will have occasion to request the spouse's presence at corporate events - it's part of the package.

I'm sure he'll have no problem finding someone else to house and care for his dogs since his own home can't accommodate them.

He is using her.


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

The OP is obviously getting something out of the relationship or she would have kicked him and his dogs out. If she is so resentful of him yet let's him continue to stay I would say she is using him to her benefit as well. I would love to hear his side of the story. I'm not saying that he should live and eat there without contributing, but what would be enough for the OP? Where do you draw the line between fair cohabitation splitting expenses as opposed to supporting HER business? I think she expects both. 

Regardless of how us on TAM want to interperate the story...bottom line the OP is feeling unsupported....so why not kick the guy to the curb? If the loser literally brings nothing to the table but takes, takes, takes why does she hold on? I don't think it's because of love, I think it's because of need.


----------



## -Molly- (Jul 10, 2018)

This is really messy, simply because your business is at your home and the lines between "household" chores and "business" chores are blurred, and he is a boyfriend that has come into your life with an existing business. If you are married, and you both decide to run a business (or one of you marries into an existing business) you are both financially invested and personally invested. It is something you both need to work at to succeed, even if one or both have a separate full time job. You need to keep your business separate! If he needs to help around "the house" to earn his keep, doing some laundry, helping with dinners, cleaning, mowing the front lawn, that's all fine. But you are resenting him for not helping with emergencies that might crop up and for general things that need doing for the business!

I am going to use the "store" example another poster mentioned, and I actually used to own one so I know the "emergencies" that can crop up. "This employee is sick, this one just had a death in the family, the freezer is broken and ice cream is melting everywhere, the cash register isn't working, a car just drove into the building!" Would you expect your "boyfriend" to drop what he is doing to respond to these emergencies? I should hope not, because it is your business, only you are financially invested in it. He could help out of the goodness of his heart if he decides, but it absolutely should not be expected of him. If he was your husband, then that is different, because he is equally invested in it and has agreed to be equally invested in it!

My personal opinion, because this is obviously causing you stress, and I can't see anything ever improving, is you need to define your relationship. If you both want to be together for the rest of your lives, then he needs to agree to be equally invested in your business, sell his house and move in permanently with you. Otherwise, if you guys want to remain boyfriend/girlfriend, he needs to go back to his house after working a 10hr shift, since he is sleeping anyways when you finish your day, and you guys make plans to see each other on his days off. And you cannot expect him to help with your business. (and if he decides to help sometimes because he wants too...fine, but there are NO expectations) 

You need to remove these blurry lines!


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> If he doesn't want to be a farm hand then he has no business living with a woman who owns one. It's part of the package. Just as a corporate executive will have occasion to request the spouse's presence at corporate events - it's part of the package.
> 
> I'm sure he'll have no problem finding someone else to house and care for his dogs since his own home can't accommodate them.
> 
> He is using her.


 The boyfriend has a full time job and his own home that he pays a mortgage on. Although the back yard is small by comparison to her farm, it was big enough for his dogs for the many years before he became her boyfriend, and is big enough today that they still go home to it when the boyfriend does. The only reason that the boyfriend stays more at her home instead of them staying more at his home is out of convenience to her, since she cannot be away from her farm. I would guess that given a choice, he would prefer that they stay at his place instead of hers so that he could work on his cars more. 

As for your comment that “Just as a corporate executive will have occasion to request the spouse's presence at corporate events - it's part of the package”, you cannot compare the two. “On occasion” going to a corporate event, is an order of magnitude less work than what the OP is expecting from the boyfriend. As it stands now the boyfriend is helping out, just not enough to meet the OP’s unreasonable expectations. She is also not just asking him to join her as she works, like a corporate exec asks a spouse to join him at a function, the boyfriend is already doing that now, she is complaining that boyfriend will not go off on his own to do farm work. That would be like a corporate exec asking someone that he is dating to go to his office when he is not there to do some of his work. Also, the spouse of a corporate exec is building a business where the spouse would expect to get half of the financial benefit. As her ex found out with the boyfriend watching, she does not share, as she said the equivalent of no matter how hard the ex spouse worked “it is mine, all mine”.

Image if she had a non-farm job and a non-farm home, and she stayed at his house more so that he could work on his cars. Would it make sense for him to tell her that she either needs to pay rent or work harder on his cars? That is what the OP is unreasonably expecting from the boyfriend.

The OP burned out her ex, and she will burn out her boyfriend. Once the boyfriend dumps her because he does not want to be her unpaid farm hand, and without her ex to exploit for free labor for a farm that is 100% hers, she will be in the same financial bind that she is now, but instead of getting at least some help from a boyfriend that does some work and keeps her company, she will be alone and get no help at all. Encouraging her current course of action concerning her boyfriend, is doing her no favor, because at the end of the day she will be worse off. If she cannot support her farm without free labor, she needs to accept the reality that the business is unsustainable long term before it further damages her life and health.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

sokillme said:


> This is an excellent post. Pretty telling actually. When you put it this way if I were him I would just pay rent. Between OP and her parents the farm will never be his, he will always just be a worker. Not sure I would want that deal.
> 
> Thread winner right here.




This is in the top 3 reasons I’ve put up with the situation for so long. I’m terrified of being put in the situation of losing my farm due to a marriage/relationship. I try to treat people as I want to be treated, and I don’t want him to feel like he would walk away empty handed either if the relationship didn’t work out. I wouldn’t blame anyone for not wanting to work on something that isn’t theirs. 

If we got married, Texas law says you keep what you had before the marriage (as a general rule). If he contributed to the mortgage, home improvements ect.. he would be entitled to recoup some of that. I don’t know how we could make things whole if we didn’t work out. 

We both share this fear, but I admit that I’m more fearful, as I’ve been in that position once before and have a lot more at stake. He hasn’t really been in a long term relationship before me, and that also worries me. I know no relationship is without risks and the longer I’ve been divorced, the more I’m starting to accept that, and be more open to it. I know which mistakes I made in my last marriage and how I can change. HOWEVER, I’d like a little more reassurance that he can live this lifestyle. At times it is A LOT of work... The stupid autoimmune stuff is unpredictable and with that probably comes a bit of added risk for him but I can’t abandon my lifestyle based on what might happen. It could just as easily be a minor annoyance as it can by life threatening. I figure I can cross that bridge when I come to it. I would like to know he has my back if something comes up (to a reasonable degree). I do have hired helpers to feed and clean stalls, but there WILL BE times when no one is available to help out and I’m super sick or injured. 

We’ve discussed this before... I told him what my expectations are, and told him that if he doesn’t want this life, I won’t hate him for it... just be honest with me. I know it’s difficult to determine when you love someone but don’t know if your lives will fit well. I don’t want to grow to hate him later on either. We’ve known each other for many years and he knows what my life is like better than anyone else. He knows I’m not willing to change my lifestyle anytime in the near future. Am I being unreasonable? That’s what I love about the forums, sometimes I don’t know if I am or not lol! 






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

TRy said:


> @OP: You said that your “boyfriend helped my ex out more! (They used to be friends... yes i know it sounds awful)”. You also said that your ex “got burned out and went totally crazy”. Did part of what you call your ex being crazy for, involve him asking if you and his then friend (your now boyfriend) were in a relationship, either emotional, physical, or both? If so, being completely honest in looking back, was there any truth to this suspicion? In relations to your boyfriend, I have a good reason in asking this.




My ex went crazy because he worked really hard and just got burnt out. We built our facility from scratch. We were both very ambitious. We were almost to a point where we could finally calm down on the barn stuff, but he couldn’t hold out any longer and wanted his “pay off” now.. and started buying whatever he wanted for himself without any regard for my opinion (motorcycles, guns, boats, strippers, etc). Oddly he never had an issue with my now boyfriend (which actually kind of bothered me. It made me feel like he didn’t care). He only had a problem with the now bf when bf and I continued to be friends after the ex moved out. I actually went on dates with other people before bf and I decided to date.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

What do you love about him? What are the things he does that made you want to choose him as a life partner? All I'm hearing is about him working on the farm. I think your bf is being very prudent and evaluating the situation. It shows in these posts at least to me, that your passion and energy and love is all for the farm. Your bf is deciding whether or not he can live with that. His value to you seems to be his ability to work. Because this isn't really how you speak about someone you want to marry. When you get married you have to adjust your life some, and you usually want to. You want to be partners. It sounds like he is just joining your life and helping you.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashybum said:


> We built our facility from scratch.


What does this mean? Your farm? So if I am understanding you correctly you built the farm together and then he wanted to sell it because he couldn't work that hard any more but you said no. Did he get anything from his hard work at all? Like did you at least buy him out for half?

How long after your divorce did the romantic relationship start with his friend? Are they still friends? What was the timing of all this?


----------



## azimuth (May 15, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> If he doesn't want to be a farm hand then he has no business living with a woman who owns one. It's part of the package. Just as a corporate executive will have occasion to request the spouse's presence at corporate events - it's part of the package.
> 
> I'm sure he'll have no problem finding someone else to house and care for his dogs since his own home can't accommodate them.
> 
> He is using her.


She physically can't leave the farm. If he wants to see her, he has to go there period. I know the lifestyle, I grew up in it. You can't leave, you can't take vacations or even really go on dates. She would be horrified if he asked her to go on a cruise or chill on the beach with margaritas for a weekend. She literally can't do it.


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashybum said:


> I would like to know he has my back if something comes up (to a reasonable degree). I do have hired helpers to feed and clean stalls, but there WILL BE times when no one is available to help out and I’m super sick or injured.
> 
> We’ve discussed this before... I told him what my expectations are, and told him that if he doesn’t want this life, I won’t hate him for it... just be honest with me. I know it’s difficult to determine when you love someone but don’t know if your lives will fit well. I don’t want to grow to hate him later on either. We’ve known each other for many years and he knows what my life is like better than anyone else. He knows I’m not willing to change my lifestyle anytime in the near future. Am I being unreasonable? That’s what I love about the forums, sometimes I don’t know if I am or not lol!


What do you think is in it for him. From your words he doesn't get any ownership in the farm. You won't sell it even if you can't take care of it. But you want him to step up and do the work you can't. 

Like the post before would you feel this way if it was a restaurant? The only difference I see is he is living in a place you could use for rent. :yawn2: Make him pay rent.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

shorton said:


> My advice is to sell the farm while real estate is high and go do something else, move, whatever that will be easier on your health. Your story was similar to my ex wife’s, she and my kids struggled to handle our farm after we divorced. Last year, she sold it and had enough money to buy outright a new smaller house in town. I was upset initially but thankful after she did. My kids had a great younger childhood, but they were exhausted. Now, they have a good life.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



And do what? It’s crossed my mind plenty of times but I can’t move very far because of my son and if I sell the farm, my ex gets to pick his school within a 50 mile radius of the current location. Driving even 30 miles twice a day, 4 days a week? Yikes! What career could I have that accommodates that schedule and pays enough for me to board a horse? Horses are me. It’s who I am and what I’m good at. 

Yes it’s a great seller’s market.. my area is rapidly developing and my property value has gone through the roof! With that being said, that’s also good for business too. I’m already one of two barns in a pretty wide radius and once my farm is put back together, I can raise my rates significantly. I’m soooo close to my goals (The lifestyle I want and not as much work.. ability to earn passive income etc..) I can’t give up now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

If you're honest, your bf isn't really a priority to you. Not judging you, but that's just an observation on my part. You have a very full life, and still have your mind on your ex a lot, whether you admit that or not. I realize you had a full life with your ex, and it's hard to shut that off, I'm sure. But, your bf may be feeling like he's just third or fourth on your to do list, so he might be seeing a relationship with you as too much. I'd be overwhelmed coming into a dating situation where I wasn't really made a priority.

So, maybe something to reflect on, as you consider a future. I don't see you as entitled by the way (per your OP), I see you as overwhelmed and trying to fit a relationship into your very hectic life.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

azimuth said:


> She physically can't leave the farm. If he wants to see her, he has to go there period. I know the lifestyle, I grew up in it. You can't leave, you can't take vacations or even really go on dates. She would be horrified if he asked her to go on a cruise or chill on the beach with margaritas for a weekend. She literally can't do it.


With all due respect, of course she can leave the farm for a date. Amazon hasn't been delivering groceries to farmers for two hundred years. Her parents live there and could alert her if there is a problem.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

sokillme said:


> What does this mean? Your farm? So if I am understanding you correctly you built the farm together and then he wanted to sell it because he couldn't work that hard any more but you said no. Did he get anything from his hard work at all? Like did you at least buy him out for half?
> 
> How long after your divorce did the romantic relationship start with his friend? Are they still friends? What was the timing of all this?




When I was young, both of my parents were in the navy and we moved around a lot and was devastated every time I had to leave my friends and couldn’t get a horse. My dad promised me when I was little that he would get me a horse when he retired. The day after he retired, we bought my first horse (who I still have!) and bought our land in 1997. After college I moved back home and saved up around $10k to build a small barn for a couple horses to buy/train/sell as a side hustle. Not long after ex and I started dating, he said he could build me a lot more barn for that budget. He had horses and built metal buildings in high school so I let him. We got married, had a baby and it all took off from there and has been my full time job since. We built on my parents property and then bought it from them. It’s “where I grew up” to me. 

When we divorced, my amazing parents swapped houses with him and he got to sell that house as part of his buy out. He also makes A LOT more money, and I agreed to no child support and non of his railroad retirement, 401k etc. My parents got to pay a smaller mortgage (they pay less than half of the current mortgage) less utilities and less property tax (I’m ag exempt)....so it saves them a lot of money too. The plan is to buy them out when my arena is paid off in 2 years. We were extremely lucky my parents stepped up, because we’d probably still be unhappily married because we are both very stubborn lol. We all kind of got what we wanted and free of any credit card debt.

He is not still friends with the BF because we remained friends after ex moved out we didn’t start dating till almost a year later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

azimuth said:


> She physically can't leave the farm. If he wants to see her, he has to go there period. I know the lifestyle, I grew up in it. You can't leave, you can't take vacations or even really go on dates. She would be horrified if he asked her to go on a cruise or chill on the beach with margaritas for a weekend. She literally can't do it.


My grandparents were farmers. We saw them regularly when we went to the farm. After reading this thread I got to thinking about it and I cannot recall one instance where my grandparents came to our house all the time I was growing up. I remember seeing them away from their house a few times, but rarely and they had to get back to the farm, so they didn't stay long.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

cashybum said:


> Oddly he never had an issue with my now boyfriend (which actually kind of bothered me. It made me feel like he didn’t care).


You stating about your ex that “Oddly he never had an issue with my now boyfriend (which actually kind of bothered me. It made me feel like he didn’t care)” shows that you felt that that your ex should have had an issue with it. This, along with your now boyfriend choosing his relationship with you over his relationship with your ex, strongly indicates that there may have been an emotional affair (“EA”) going on between you and your now boyfriend during your marriage. If it was not physical, neither you or your ex fully recognized that this was damaging your marriage, and could have led to the end of your marriage as your husband went crazy in trying to change things.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

*Deidre* said:


> If you're honest, your bf isn't really a priority to you. Not judging you, but that's just an observation on my part. You have a very full life, and still have your mind on your ex a lot, whether you admit that or not. I realize you had a full life with your ex, and it's hard to shut that off, I'm sure. But, your bf may be feeling like he's just third or fourth on your to do list, so he might be seeing a relationship with you as too much. I'd be overwhelmed coming into a dating situation where I wasn't really made a priority.
> 
> So, maybe something to reflect on, as you consider a future. I don't see you as entitled by the way (per your OP), I see you as overwhelmed and trying to fit a relationship into your very hectic life.



In a lot of ways you are right. I do try, and I want to make him a priority. It really sucks when my hands get tied... this past year was really hard. I had a million dr appts trying to figure out what was going on. Barn maintenance was put on the back burner at a time when materials, components and equipment are reaching the end of their useful life... compound that with natural disasters (will it ever stop freaking raining?!?!!!!) and it feels like climbing Mount Everest with someone who said “that sounds like fun!” and then changes their mind 1/2 way up the mountain. I had a lot of storm damage, but insurance only covers so much and time is money. For example, my arena is a large fabric structure, it’s covered by insurance but it’s not as durable as the manufacturer claimed it to be and the manufacturer is trying to charge me more than what they said it would be to make repairs under their warranty. Insurance policy also only allows so much for damaged fencing.. but I sustained a little more damage than what the insurance covers. Thankfully it’s enough to cover materials, but that means I have to do the labor. I’m just so thankful that treatment is working and my body is mostly cooperating otherwise I would REALLY be screwed... although I’m frustratingly slower than I was. 

I honestly love the feeling of accomplishment when I can do “man stuff” by myself. I never thought I would like to tinker and build! It’s one of my biggest regrets when it comes to my ex... I let my ex handle it because he could do it better (or so i thought) and way faster. He would do most of the building and I would do the painting. My ex didn’t have the patience to teach me much and we generally both agreed that I was more useful teaching and training. It started to become an issue when my business grew faster than he could keep up. We made good money, but not enough to hire out the construction AND for him to buy his toys, so we DIY to afford it all. 

Being down a lot this last year sucked, BUT it has taught me to be more patient and business will go on without my constant attention and to take more time for myself and my family. With this situation however, I don’t really have a choice. I have to make a living... even if I wanted to give it all up, I couldn’t sell the place like it is. (


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> With all due respect, of course she can leave the farm for a date. Amazon hasn't been delivering groceries to farmers for two hundred years. Her parents live there and could alert her if there is a problem.




You’re both kind of right. The ex and I didn’t take an actual vacation for many years.. we only went out of town for funerals and weddings. BUT the bf and I went on vacation twice in one year. Then I was sick for a year, and he changed companies and couldn’t take a vacation either but we are both itching for one! I can’t be as spontaneous as most people, but I can take a vacation and plan days off! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

cashybum said:


> In a lot of ways you are right. I do try, and I want to make him a priority. It really sucks when my hands get tied... this past year was really hard. I had a million dr appts trying to figure out what was going on. Barn maintenance was put on the back burner at a time when materials, components and equipment are reaching the end of their useful life... compound that with natural disasters (will it ever stop freaking raining?!?!!!!) and it feels like climbing Mount Everest with someone who said “that sounds like fun!” and then changes their mind 1/2 way up the mountain. I had a lot of storm damage, but insurance only covers so much and time is money. For example, my arena is a large fabric structure, it’s covered by insurance but it’s not as durable as the manufacturer claimed it to be and the manufacturer is trying to charge me more than what they said it would be to make repairs under their warranty. Insurance policy also only allows so much for damaged fencing.. but I sustained a little more damage than what the insurance covers. Thankfully it’s enough to cover materials, but that means I have to do the labor. I’m just so thankful that treatment is working and my body is mostly cooperating otherwise I would REALLY be screwed... although I’m frustratingly slower than I was.
> 
> I honestly love the feeling of accomplishment when I can do “man stuff” by myself. I never thought I would like to tinker and build! It’s one of my biggest regrets when it comes to my ex... I let my ex handle it because he could do it better (or so i thought) and way faster. He would do most of the building and I would do the painting. My ex didn’t have the patience to teach me much and we generally both agreed that I was more useful teaching and training. *It started to become an issue when my business grew faster than he could keep up.* We made good money, but not enough to hire out the construction AND for him to buy his toys, so we DIY to afford it all.
> 
> ...


I wonder did you expect your ex to dedicate his whole life to this as well? I get the feeling a lot of your fights were over that part I bolded in your post. Did you get on him when he wasn't keeping up? I think it is really hard to expect your mate to own your dream the way you do. To dedicate their whole life to it, especially when you are just dating.


----------



## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

cashy_bum I guess I agree with girl_power, seems you are both working pretty hard and he probably cant pick up too much more than what he is doing. There are only 2 choices really. 1) Hire someone to help; 2) Downsize if possible. If you can't afford to hire someone perhaps BF would help a little financially to hire someone. Maybe you could put it in a way like this: hey we could spend more time together if you could help me pay Joe Shmoe to clean the stables once a week to free time up for us or so to do x,y,z ..... This may actually work. In my younger days I would try and fix and do everything myself when possible. As I have aged I dont want to do that and much rather pay someone in order for free time which is more valuable now.

You have my sympathy I know ag/farm work isnt like you punch in at 9 and punch out at 5. Its 365 days and the days are as many hours as needed. I hope it works for you guys but those things seem like the only choices. good luck


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She's running an equestrian center. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to keep foxes out of chicken coops.

She's dealing with damage due to weather and finishing up structures.

Once it gets properly running, she'll have a lot more free time. It won't always be like this.


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> She's running an equestrian center. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to keep foxes out of chicken coops.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I’ve had to milk a horse once.. does that count? No foxes though...just trying to keep evil mini ponies from morphing into the feed room and picking the locks on the feed bins.  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Delete


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> She's running an equestrian center. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to keep foxes out of chicken coops.
> 
> She's dealing with damage due to weather and finishing up structures.
> 
> Once it gets properly running, she'll have a lot more free time. It won't always be like this.


If she had a chicken farm, you could just as incorrectly say that she’s running a chicken farm. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to groom, exercise, and feed horses everyday. She's dealing with damage due to weather and finishing up structures. Once it gets properly running, she'll have a lot more free time. It won't always be like this. 

My daughter was very into horses when she was young, and it was a lot of work. It could always be like this. There could always be damage due to something, health issues, and whatever. That is the real deal. 

Even she admits that: 
“However, this is a farm. Urgent matters pop up on a semi frequent basis. Horses tear down fences, pipes bursts, horses get loose, storms blowing in, fire.... all hands on deck type scenarios that this person has to be prepared to help with.”
“It’s not all puppies and rainbows. I figured after 13 years, he’d know that.” 
“I’d like a little more reassurance that he can live this lifestyle. At times it is A LOT of work... The stupid autoimmune stuff is unpredictable and with that probably comes a bit of added risk for him”.
And “I would like to know he has my back if something comes up (to a reasonable degree). I do have hired helpers to feed and clean stalls, but there WILL BE times when no one is available to help out and I’m super sick or injured.”

In posting here the OP asked “He knows I’m not willing to change my lifestyle anytime in the near future. Am I being unreasonable?” Rather than just girl power cheering her on, we need to give her a real answer on this.

In answering this question, since we do not have the ex or the boyfriend posting here, we need to try to go with what the OP tells us about them. Her hard working ex tried to live this life, and was burned out by it. It appears that her boyfriend, who has also seen this life first hand, is also not buying into it as much as she wants. This indicates that she is being unreasonable, and we need to tell her this if we really want to help her. Her ex did not go crazy, he just saw the reality of the situation, and did not want to live this way anymore.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

TRy said:


> If she had a chicken farm, you could just as incorrectly say that she’s running a chicken farm. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to groom, exercise, and feed horses everyday. She's dealing with damage due to weather and finishing up structures. Once it gets properly running, she'll have a lot more free time. It won't always be like this.
> 
> My daughter was very into horses when she was young, and it was a lot of work. It could always be like this. There could always be damage due to something, health issues, and whatever. That is the real deal.
> 
> ...


I'm very familiar with what goes on at an equestrian center as a friend owns one. This isn't just girl power cheering her on. This is putting some perspective on what this type of life entails. Obviously, her bf isn't cut out for this type of life and neither was her husband. It's basically the difference between rural and city living. Different aspirations and dreams for lifestyle.

Yes, she is being unreasonable because her chosen partner isn't up for the lifestyle. She needs to find someone who is. Hopefully, someone who hasn't been contaminated by an ex.

And, I must say that you relegating my post to 'girl power cheering' is offensive and sexist. Just because you have a **** doesn't mean you know jack **** about the subject.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> I must say that you relegating my post to 'girl power cheering' is offensive


 If I was allowed by the site to delete "girl power" from my post, I would, as I did not mean to offend. Being unintentionally offensive distracts from the main focus of an otherwise sincere post. If you look at my thousands of post on this site, I do not name call, or try to get into such conversations, as this is rarely helpful to anyone.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Yes, she is being unreasonable because her chosen partner isn't up for the lifestyle. She needs to find someone who is. Hopefully, someone who hasn't been contaminated by an ex.


If her business model requires that she find a partner that will: 1) Work a full time job, 2) Come home to work hard (on his own as she does other things) toward a business owned by a the OP and her parents, 3) Work even harder if her existing medical condition acts up, 4) Accept the fact that she has a history of making the farm more important to her than her partners, 5) And accept that living with her parents is part of the deal, then her odds for success are anything but good. Her ex sounded like her best hope, and to expect better may be unreasonable.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Can I ask a specific question?

How did he end up lving with you? 

I am not asking for details on your ex, your BF, you, your former marriage or the divorce. 

I would just like to know how he ended up living with you in the first place..


Thank you.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> How did he end up lving with you?


The OP's boyfriend owns his own home that he likes to stay at to work on his cars, but he stay much of his time at the OP's place out of convenience to her as it allows the two of them better access to working on her farm.

In post number 118 I did tell the OP "You stating about your ex that “Oddly he never had an issue with my now boyfriend (which actually kind of bothered me. It made me feel like he didn’t care)” shows that you felt that that your ex should have had an issue with it. This, along with your now boyfriend choosing his relationship with you over his relationship with your ex, strongly indicates that there may have been an emotional affair (“EA”) going on between you and your now boyfriend during your marriage. If it was not physical, neither you or your ex fully recognized that this was damaging your marriage, and could have led to the end of your marriage as your husband went crazy in trying to change things". The OP never confirmed or denied an EA with her now boyfriend.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TRy said:


> The OP's boyfriend owns his own home that he likes to stay at to work on his cars, but he stay much of his time at the OP's place out of convenience to her as it allows the two of them better access to working on her farm.


No, thank you, but no. Look, I read the entire thread and that includes your and her posts. 

I did not ask for others interpretation of her words. I see three to four different conflicting things in her posts, that raise an important question to me, which is why I want her answer.

Edit:
You added more, see the quote below, as I was posting and this is not where I am going or trying to address at all.


TRy said:


> In post number 118 I did tell the OP "You stating about your ex that “Oddly he never had an issue with my now boyfriend (which actually kind of bothered me. It made me feel like he didn’t care)” shows that you felt that that your ex should have had an issue with it. This, along with your now boyfriend choosing his relationship with you over his relationship with your ex, strongly indicates that there may have been an emotional affair (“EA”) going on between you and your now boyfriend during your marriage. If it was not physical, neither you or your ex fully recognized that this was damaging your marriage, and could have led to the end of your marriage as your husband went crazy in trying to change things". The OP never confirmed or denied an EA with her now boyfriend.


----------



## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Just stepping back for a second from the relationship issues, there should probably be a business analysis done for the stables. In every category of business, successful businesses will have their financial numbers looking pretty similar. So costs for infrastructure, employees, materials, etc. should be appropriate for the kind of business. The revenue should be appropriate for the size of the stables. And stuff like that. If you're feeling overwhelmed and always behind, it's a sign that the business isn't healthy. A business which requires free labor to survive is not a business that is going to last. There's something fundamentally out of balance with this enterprise that needs to be fixed. Getting your BF to help is *not* the solution. The solution might be reduce the size of the stables so upkeep is lower, and then you get a PT job to keep your income up. Or maybe add a lot more horses so that you can afford to pay ranch hands for the maintenance. 

I'm not familiar with horse stables, but are there any examples of successful stables which are a one-person operation like you are trying to create?


----------



## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Nope, it's not their shared dream, lifestyle, or chosen occupation. But it doesn't have to be. Everyone gets off work every single day and come home to a household to run - cleaning the house, cooking dinner, taking care of kids, etc. And days off are filled with obligations - running errands, household maintenance, property maintenance, etc. Getting off work doesn't begin leisure time for anybody. He can come home after work and do SOMETHING without getting burned out on trying to help her run her ranch. He can also help out more on his 3 days off each week. But, he doesn't want to do anything at all, and whatever he will do after she asks is done with resentment and the requirement that she babysits and helps him get it done. She might be asking too much that he devote his time to it like she has to, but it's not too much to expect his help. Not to mention that he helped her husband out much more and much more regularly. Maybe he got paid that she doesn't know about, and he doesn't want to have to do it for free. But he's her boyfriend. He should help. He should want to help. And he shouldn't expect to be paid. She will have to find a way to depend less on him and compromise her expectations because she needs more from him than she should expect, but, again, some help from him at all is not too much to ask. He is of little help at all and should do more.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

cashybum said:


> The only reason he hasn’t fully rented out his house is because I don’t have a good enough shop. His house at least has a two car garage and concrete driveway for him to work on. I personally want a giant shop too, but he’d have to sell his house in order to build one here because I have other business goals that take priority. However, I’m probably his only shot at ever having his dream shop in the foreseeable future. Of course the other probable reason is that he can “hide” from me at his house and do whatever he wants and not be asked to help out.
> 
> On the other hand, at my house, he doesn’t have to pay any utilities, spends a lot less on food, and half his meals are ready when he gets home from work. He gets help with his laundry. The other big plus for him, is his 2 German Shepherds (one of which is the daughter of my female GSD) have a great place to stay. His yard is TINY and he works 10 hour shifts with a 45 min drive one way. I also feed the dogs (he buys the food). His dogs have lived here pretty exclusively for the last 3 years. Even though they can be a pain in the butt, I’d miss them terribly if they left.
> 
> ...


I'm just going to leave this right here. To me, this says everything. 

1. He is waiting for his dream garage at her place
2. his dogs have a great life at the farm (he doesn't even have to feed them!)
3. Half of his meals are cooked and ready for him
4. Utilities are free
5. Spends alot less on food
6. Gets laundry help 

Why are you feeding his dogs @cashybum? Is his commute to work closer from your house?

Does he cook for you and help with your laundry?


----------



## cashybum (Aug 16, 2012)

TRy said:


> If she had a chicken farm, you could just as incorrectly say that she’s running a chicken farm. She isn't out milking cows come hell or high water. She isn't bringing in the sheaves. She isn't trying to groom, exercise, and feed horses everyday. She's dealing with damage due to weather and finishing up structures. Once it gets properly running, she'll have a lot more free time. It won't always be like this.
> 
> My daughter was very into horses when she was young, and it was a lot of work. It could always be like this. There could always be damage due to something, health issues, and whatever. That is the real deal.
> 
> ...




Funny you should mention chicken farm. His grandpa was a chicken farmer in West Texas. One night not long after my ex moved out, he was almost emotional talking about how upset he was that his mom sold it after his grandpa passed because it was supposed to be his and encouraged me to hang on to my farm.... between that, being from a rural community, knowing he worked agriculture type jobs in high school, and having helped out a lot in the past, I thought surely he was on board and capable of living this lifestyle...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

cashybum;
Funny you should mention chicken farm. His grandpa was a chicken farmer in West Texas. One night not long after my ex moved out said:


> He may very well be "capable of living the lifestyle", but he has no vested interest in your farm or your business. You keep acting resentful toward him not doing enough, how about turning the table and look at it from his perspective. Don't you think he feels used because you keep asking for more and more help?
> 
> Look you want some sort of partnership than have the conversation with him of combining assets and households, or buying into your business. Short of that he is your boyfriend and nothing more. I realize the line is fuzzy between your life and your business, but for him there's a very clear line between offering a bit of help or feeling like an unpaid farm hand.
> 
> ...


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You've been fishing from a very small pond for a life partner. Broaden your horizons.

But; just for the sake argument> let's consider this scenario:

Woman moves in with a man and his two children. Woman doesn't have children of her own. Man thinks they are in a relationship and proceeds to expect woman to help care for his children. Woman thinks they're not my kids - why should I? What am I going to get out of it? 

Woman buys a few groceries here and there, pays no rent, gets utilities for free and dinners made several times a week and her dogs get taken care of. She'll help with the kids' laundry if man stands there and hands her the detergent and fabric softener and holds the lid of the washer open and helps load the clothes. Ask her to fold them? Get outta here.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

There don't appear to be any clear boundaries in this relationship. There is not mutual agreement on what this relationship is even about. It doesn't appear to have been a decision for him to spend most of his time at your place. It seems to have happened for convenience, but no discussion or thought was put into the matter by either of you. There is no mutual agreement about your relationship. If resentment is building on your side, it's probably building on his side as well.

This early in the relationship is typically when people are on their best behavior and enjoying each other to the fullest, but you don't have that. What do you even like about this man? Why are you two together?


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

cashybum said:


> Funny you should mention chicken farm. His grandpa was a chicken farmer in West Texas. One night not long after my ex moved out, he was almost emotional talking about how upset he was that his mom sold it after his grandpa passed because it was supposed to be his and encouraged me to hang on to my farm.... between that, being from a rural community, knowing he worked agriculture type jobs in high school, and having helped out a lot in the past, I thought surely he was on board and capable of living this lifestyle...


 Is it possible that while posing as "just a friend" your current boyfriend was secretly pursuing you while you were married? If he were, he would tell you what you want to hear, and would encourage you to “hang on to” your farm, even at the expense of your marriage. 

If you look at any of the many sites on how to steal another man's woman, the advice always given is to first be their friend and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. Your current boyfriend not only let you vent to him about your man, but he let your man vent to him about you, thus being in a position to help encourage the conditions for a breakup. One site titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”, says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” Another site says to "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes”, and continues with “If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Does this sound familiar to you? Advising you to hang onto your farm while your "crazy" husband was asking you to sell, would fit this strategy perfectly.


----------



## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

TRy said:


> Is it possible that while posing as "just a friend" your current boyfriend was secretly pursuing you while you were married? If he were, he would tell you what you want to hear, and would encourage you to “hang on to” your farm, even at the expense of your marriage.
> 
> If you look at any of the many sites on how to steal another man's woman, the advice always given is to first be their friend and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. Your current boyfriend not only let you vent to him about your man, but he let your man vent to him about you, thus being in a position to help encourage the conditions for a breakup. One site titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”, says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” Another site says to "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes”, and continues with “If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Does this sound familiar to you? Advising you to hang onto your farm while your "crazy" husband was asking you to sell, would fit this strategy perfectly.


Yikes! That's horrible.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cashybum said:


> You are probably right in some respects. Unfortunately though, it’s just who I am. I love the country life and love what I do. It’s what I’m good at. I am a lot more conscious of how I handle chemicals, dusts and such  ..... as I smother the bottom of my fence posts in roofing tar and diesel fuel
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But you also now have medical issues that preclude you from living that life that you love. You have to accept that. 

Your bf is not your husband, nor is he your partner. He didn't sign up for that. Not saying he won't, but presently he is not. Sure, you'd like him to step up and 'rescue' you, but that isn't currently his job.

Sounds like you two need to have a real conversation.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

turnera said:


> But you also now have medical issues that preclude you from living that life that you love. You have to accept that.
> 
> Your bf is not your husband, nor is he your partner. He didn't sign up for that. Not saying he won't, but presently he is not. Sure, you'd like him to step up and 'rescue' you, but that isn't currently his job.


Truth!!


----------

