# a date set for separation



## hopeless116

We are about 1000 miles from home visiting my family for Thanksgiving, and my wife just told me that as soon as our 1yo is in daycare she will move out, or I will. So January is the set date.

She was angry with me this time because I discussed with my parents about buying a new countertop for my brother without discussing with my wife first. When she confronted me about it I immediately admitted fault and apologized, but tried to calm her down by reminding her that my brother doesn't even know this conversation happened. No promises were made, no expectations set. Still she asked if I would have asked when I wrote a check or before. Later she said I have always disrespected her, and brought up stuff that happened 8 years ago as evidence. Of course she also brought up our recent fights about my ex.

This whole trip has been a disaster. Right before we left I caught a cold and now most everyone has a cold now. My wife says I have given everyone colds because of my ex and that I did it on purpose. Here we are, 1000 miles from home staying with my brothers family and we can't get away from our problems.

Sigh, mostly venting now. Hard to have a happy Thanksgiving when my world is collapsing. Also trying not to ruin everyone else's holiday by telling everyone Thar our marriage is ending.

I hope eveyone else us having a fine Holiday.


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## arbitrator

hopeless116 said:


> We are about 1000 miles from home visiting my family for Thanksgiving, and my wife just told me that as soon as our 1yo is in daycare she will move out, or I will. So January is the set date.
> 
> She was angry with me this time because I discussed with my parents about buying a new countertop for my brother without discussing with my wife first. When she confronted me about it I immediately admitted fault and apologized, but tried to calm her down by reminding her that my brother doesn't even know this conversation happened. No promises were made, no expectations set. Still she asked if I would have asked when I wrote a check or before. Later she said I have always disrespected her, and brought up stuff that happened 8 years ago as evidence. Of course she also brought up our recent fights about my ex.
> 
> This whole trip has been a disaster. Right before we left I caught a cold and now most everyone has a cold now. My wife says I have given everyone colds because of my ex and that I did it on purpose. Here we are, 1000 miles from home staying with my brothers family and we can't get away from our problems.
> 
> Sigh, mostly venting now. Hard to have a happy Thanksgiving when my world is collapsing. Also trying not to ruin everyone else's holiday by telling everyone Thar our marriage is ending.
> 
> I hope eveyone else us having a fine Holiday.


*So sorry to hear about this , @hopeless! This ultimatum that you recently received so vividly depicts what my RSXW demanded of me when she told me that when my youngest son was off in the air on his high school junior trip to New York City, that I was to drive him to Bush Airport in Houston, put him on his designated flight and then go find other living quarters!

I only thought that she was having some kind of mental breakdown! But the only thing she was breaking was her other two BF's penises, all going into on behind my back without ever having had the first damned clue about it!

She wanted my unsuspecting ass out of the way so she could roll her other BF's ashes, all so I would never realize what it was that she was doing!

Time for you to start investigating her activities! I do believe that there is a fox in the henhouse"][/COLOR]*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine

I think there is more to this story that what you are saying. If you discuss matters with your family and exclude your wife it is disrespectful and unloving, it this a regular occurrence?
How does your ex fit into the picture? Are you still in contact with her, etc? How has this affected your wife?

YOur wife is feeling unloved and disrespected, you need to tell us more. There is much more to this than what you are saying, sounds to me that there is alot of resentment building up over time in your marriage and you are being quite dense about it. 

Your wife is trying to change the parameters of your relationship, maybe for you to put her first in decision making, etc, she may have tried to bring this to you many times, you may have dismissed her, now she has decided nothing will change, time to quit. 

This is just another take on what you have said as opposed to the usual knee jerk response of she is cheating!


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## hopeless116

She isn't cheating. I know that for a fact. I felt I needed to start a new thread about advice for our imminent separation. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to fix things. Every I do or say is wrong.

Very sad, but in truth I have a lot to be thankful for, so I can just focus on that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## razze

hopeless116 said:


> She isn't cheating. I know that for a fact.


How did you get her to wear a chastity belt?


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## Marc878

Big red flags here. First thing. Go online and check the phone bill. Look for texts/messages to a specific number. At least get that off the list. Do it asap!!!!!

Things like this don't happen overnight.

You don't leave the home or your bedroom!!!!! Period. If she wants to separate let her do it.

Seen this many times. Do not be her doormat


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## Marc878

hopeless116 said:


> She isn't cheating. I know that for a fact. I felt I needed to start a new thread about advice for our imminent separation. There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to fix things. Every I do or say is wrong.
> 
> Very sad, but in truth I have a lot to be thankful for, so I can just focus on that.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Famous last words. We see this on here all the time and then. Boom, oh no!!!!!!!!!


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## Marc878

Read your thread. All this over a damn countertop????

Ridiculous!!!! Is this your life with her??? WTH!!!!!!

Do you set back and take it?


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## Marc878

I just looked back at your threads. Have you looked at having her evaluated for mental conditions????

You need to start thinking about the affect on your young kids. 

What was your parents, etc take on her behavior?????


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## lifeistooshort

aine said:


> I think there is more to this story that what you are saying. If you discuss matters with your family and exclude your wife it is disrespectful and unloving, it this a regular occurrence?
> How does your ex fit into the picture? Are you still in contact with her, etc? How has this affected your wife?
> 
> YOur wife is feeling unloved and disrespected, you need to tell us more. There is much more to this than what you are saying, sounds to me that there is alot of resentment building up over time in your marriage and you are being quite dense about it.
> 
> Your wife is trying to change the parameters of your relationship, maybe for you to put her first in decision making, etc, she may have tried to bring this to you many times, you may have dismissed her, now she has decided nothing will change, time to quit.
> 
> This is just another take on what you have said as opposed to the usual knee jerk response of she is cheating!


I asked the same thing on another of his threads. .... why is his wife so hung up on his exes? Why does she think he's not over his ex? 

He never answered, all he did was gloss over it and continue to paint his wife as a bat crazy b!tch that is mean to him while he cries. Crying every damn time your spouse tries to deal with what bothers them is a nice manipulative way to avoid dealing with it and paint yourself as the victim, so now everything has to be about you crying.

And of course TAM eats it up and practces online psychology based on his description, which doesn't even make any sense. 

I agree with you, he's leaving out a lot of details. Unfortunate because we can't help him if we don't understand what's going on. 

You don't discuss making big purchases without your spouse. Period. 

But he's bent on making himself out to be a victim. Probably does it with his wife too and she's tired of it.

I bet his wife has a very different take on what's going on. Too bad she's not here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

My wife wrote me this letter. You can be assured that it is true and the reason I have professed guilt over ruining my marriage. I've never claimed to be guiltless. The opposite is true. I was banned from other forums for posting this, but I also agree that you guys deserve to hear both sides of the issue.

Nine years ago, when we met, I thought you were smart, handsome and funny. I really liked you.

Two days later, we kissed. It has been my most memorable kiss. I asked you about your most memorable kiss years later, you said it was with your first date. You ranked ours the second best -- that hurt. You said your first kiss was just more passionate, had a more romantic setting and you wanted it more at the moment. Ours was just not as passionate. Ouch! But facts are facts. I can't blame you for not feeling passion. But it still hurts me. You gave me a different explanation later. I have forgiven you on this matter, even though it still causes my pain.


A few days later after we met, we visited your place. You held your violin next to your chest and said: 'This is O*****(your ex's name)'. Later, when I was driving, your violin fell on the floor, and you told me: 'Dont hurt her!' You know, that hurt. When I stopped the car to drop you off, you slammed the door and left without a single word. The next day, you apologized and told me from now on, I am the only one for you. I gave you another chance.

I thought you mentioned ex because you felt insecure and needed to boast. Well, I soon discovered I was wrong. You were actually very arrogant; you belittled most people and behaved as if you were superior than everyone. I still believed I can bring out the good side of you. I believed I could show you that no one is superior than others, and everyone deserves respect. Indeed, you have changed over the years from a cold-hearted person to a compassionate person. You have become a lot more open-minded and respectful. I am very glad to see that.

As I saw the not-so-good side of you, I started wondering whether you truly meant I was the only one for you. I confronted you about your feelings towards your ex O***** many times, and you were silent every time. Only when I wanted to breakup, you would reassure me I was the most improtant one to you. I made peace with that, but later realized that was not enough for me. I need to be the only one, not just the most important one.

During one of our fights about your ex issure, you also told me you cannot promise not cheat on me. We broke up, but I asked you to come back a few days later. Now I really regret it. How could I have such low self-esteem at that time?

I hated your silence treatment towards me. I hated that you fell asleep while I was still sobbing. Every time you were silent when I confronted your feelings towards your ex, my suspision grew a little. As my suspicion grew, my trust faded, so did my passion.

I saved virginity for you, and you did not do the same for me. That hurts. But I did not tell you it bothered me at that time. Why? I did not want you to carry the burden of guilt while you could not do anything about it. I made peace with the fact that we humans all have different values.

I took you out on dates, but you did not take me out anywhere for a long time. According to what you told me recently, it was too much work to make plans for dates and you resented making date plans for us.

I still said yes when you asked me to marry you. Honestly I was not sure about my feelings towards you at the time. I had not much passion and not enough trust, but still loved you enough to want to marry you. I know that's not all you wanted but I did not tell you. For that, I am sorry.

After we got married, we revisted the ex issue again, you said you were not over her when we started dating. You said you treated me as backup for the first two years or so. You said you were dating me just to get me to have sex with you. The result was we almost anulled our marriage, but I still gave you another chance. Why? I was trying to live up to the promise I made at our wedding.

A few weeks ago, we were watching TV. You commented that cheating was wrong, and I stated that you once told me you could not promice not to cheat. You gave me the silence treatment again. After a long deep thought, you confessed you did have feelings for your ex O***** even after we got married. After I told you this is the end of our marriage, you changed your story. You started telling me you did not mean it when you said it.

You have been able to support the family while I am a homemaker. For that, I am very grateful. I did not have fulfulling careers for a while. That has made me less forgiving, but I never transferred my own anger on you. I know you have loved me. But that is not enough. I cannot accept any betryal after your proposal, even though it is just emotional. Now that I am one step out this marriage, you are telling me you were over O*****. Where were you in the past nine years? Why were you always silent and irritated when I confronted you about her? How could you fall asleep while I was sobbing next to you? Why did you tell me you still thought about having sex with her? Why did you confess repeatedly you had feelings for her? How could you still miss the sex with her while I was suffering from the pain that relationship inflicted on me? I have hated your relationship with O***** so much that I want you to regret ever being with her. I know this is crazy. I am ashamed I have turned into such an unforgiving jealous person.

I have many fears in ending our marriage. I fear our children won't forgive me. I fear that those who may be fiancially dependent on me don't get support when in need. What I fear the most, is the love I once had for you may take a long time to go away.

I truly want to forgive, but I have lost my patience over nine years. Don't blame yourself for everything. I never told you I found very little passion for you. That was my fault. By giving you another chance over and over again, I was leading you into a relationship in which you were not being loved the way you wanted.

It's time for me to try aother option -- be seperated for a while. Maybe I will find a way to forgive; maybe I won't.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

Wow, was she ever stupid for getting married, sorry...but, that is on HER, that was HER mistake. Do you both a favor and give her a divorce. I have read your other thread and you guys are a disaster. Then find a way to come to terms with your feelings about your ex or you will never, ever have a successful relationship.


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## lifeistooshort

Wow, now things are starting to make sense. 

This paints a very different picture then a bat crazy woman obsessing about an ex you haven't seen in 10 years. I'm not surprised. .... the original story made no sense. 

I appreciate you sharing that, I know it took courage. 

This marriage is over, now let it go. Your wife has never been number one to you, and you made sure she knew that. 

And it's still all about you, that's why you cry.....to manipulate things into being all about you. You couldn't even promise you'd be faithful until you realized she was going to dump you. 

Your wife should not have married you and you should not have married her. Sounds like neither one of you was ever crazy about the other. 

End this now and you can both find partners you deserve. 

And do yourself a favor and get some intensive individual counseling. Your life with you ex might not have been so great either so until you drop the fantasy and start to consider someone besides yourself you'll wreck every relationship you get into.

She's not emotionally abusing you, you're emotionally abusing her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cosmos

> (Letter from OP's W) After we got married, we revisted the ex issue again, you said you were not over her when we started dating. You said you treated me as backup for the first two years or so. You said you were dating me just to get me to have sex with you.


What an unhealthy relationship - right from the beginning.

You and your W need to divorce and seek individual counselling.


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## Minnion

Hopeless, one piece of advice that will save you a lot of trouble and time is to "try to NOT make any wild moves during the process".

That basically means to lay low. This is the time that will decide if you and your wife are going to mentally choose to start WAR or be civil.

Spending money or doing things that are out of your regular personality is just going to lead her to be against you. Next time you want to talk and figure something out she will work against you.


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## soccermom2three

I think you should have this thread merged with your other thread.


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## hopeless116

I don't know how to merge threads. Can you help me out?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

We're back home from the trip. My wife was pretty happy to be back and we were pretty nice to each other until about 4 am. She woke me up because she couldn't sleep. 

Turns out she hasn't slept well for days and spent a lot of time crying when no one was around. She has been upset that I still haven't made any effort to fix our relationship. I was confused because she has consistently called our relationship over. Also, she repeated that she has never loved me and being with me has caused her to want to be with other people more. It sure doesn't sound like she wants to spend more time with me does it?

My parents watched the kids while we went out to see a movie together. She said I was pressured into doing it, but really I just didn't want to pressure her. The rest of my family has no idea we are having problems, so I just didn't want to spoil everyone else's holiday.

The worst part is that she still doesn't trust me with our kids. Being with them all day everyday was the real joy I had while we were on vacation, and she knows this. But since it is my fault for ruining our marriage she said that she cannot expect me to be responsible with them. Sounds like she is going to sue me for custody, which would ruin all of us. God I'm so afraid of what will happen next.


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## turnera

Wow. You both are messed up. fwiw, she is waiting for you to fight for the marriage. To show some fire, some passion, to CARE about the marriage. She's asking you to declare that you WANT to be married to her and SHOW her.


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## hopeless116

I wish she was wanting me to fight for the marriage. The day before I wrote her a poem. Yesterday I was going tovtake her and the kids our to see Xmas lights. Trying to be spontaneous, she said she was missing that.. 

Well yesterday she said my surprises suck. Before dinner she gets all worked up and pulls out everything I've ever done wrong. Then she admits that I didn't do anything wrong that night. 

After dinner she gets angry again. Not because of anything I said or did, just because she was thinking about all I've done wrong. All I said was I'm sorry and that I was devoted to her. She started screaming and physically trying to push me out of the house while the kids watched. I refused to leave because I want equal access to the kids. She said I don't deserve access to them and she will change the lock on me while I'm at work.

I know this is all my fault and there's probably no way I can save the marriage, but what do I do tockeep access tocthe kids? What do I do if she changes the locks? I know if I move out she can use it as evidence that she should have sole custody. Please help me. My kids are the only joy I have left in life and the only reason I try tockeep living.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine

Your wife has been in emotional pain for years and years (because of the s*** you pulled i.e your ex girlfriend, discussing finances with your parents, etc,) and only now when she is ready to go and leave you, you start floundering around, you aren't doing any grand gestures, you are silently panicking hoping things will go back to normal, well they wont. 

Your wife still loves you, she is pushing you to your limits to see if you will fight for her or not. Looks like you haven't a clue! You are hanging by a thread, you have to act! A woman needs to feel loved, she doesn't trust you with her heart anymore (and who could blame her?)

1. Tell her you know you have really f***** up and made a mess of things
2. Tell her you love her and really want to start all over again, that you do not want to lose her
3. Ask her to go to MC with you immediately, organise it too
4. every day, talk to her eye to eye, ask her what you can do to help her trust you again

Lisen to this podcast from 
The Love and Respect Podcast: Relationships 
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/love-respect-podcast-relationships/id897327904?mt=2

Listen to number 16 - My wife is leaving me (it is free)

Your wife is now on the border line, the way you respond now, will make all the difference.


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## Cosmos

hopeless116 said:


> I know this is all my fault and there's probably no way I can save the marriage, but what do I do tockeep access tocthe kids? What do I do if she changes the locks? I know if I move out she can use it as evidence that she should have sole custody. Please help me. My kids are the only joy I have left in life and the only reason I try tockeep living.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In the event of a divorce, your W will not get to say when you can / cannot see the kids. This will be something determined by the Family Court and, unless there's a good reason why you shouldn't, you and your children will continue to enjoy as much access to one another as possible.


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## hopeless116

Thanks for the quick replies. Is there anything I should do when she's screaming at me and trying to physically push me out the door? I absolutely hated seeing the horrified expression on my 3yo's face. When I was putting her to bed she kept saying that Mommy was bad. All I could tell her was that pushing was wrong and Mommy was upset. Also that we both love her and she is wonderful.


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## thenub

Carry a VAR at all times when with that crazy b!tch.


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## hopeless116

thenub said:


> Carry a VAR at all times when with that crazy b!tch.


What good would it do? Is it admissable in family court? I tried reading about it but mostly it just seems like it doesn't matter. I live in a state where it is legal to record without both parties consent, but I don't see where it would help anything if judges or lawyers don't care.


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## 3Xnocharm

Stop trying to fight for this and let it end. Move out.


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## hopeless116

3Xnocharm said:


> Stop trying to fight for this and let it end. Move out.


I read that if I move out the court will see that I am not invested in my kids' well-being. I am. I want to be able to see them everyday.


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## EnjoliWoman

Take a day off work and spend it with her. 

It sounds like she still loves you and is so torn and at times hates you. Remember the opposite of love is indifference, not hate. She still has very strong emotions where you are concerned. She hates what you both have done, she hates the idea of divorce, she is mad that her kids are going to go through something awful and the emotions are ripped through her too fast for her to cope. Meanwhile you are either emotionless or a puddle.

When she goes after you in front of the kids, simply tell her her "not in front of the kids". Or, you can pick up the child or speak to the child by saying "Mommy and Daddy are having a disagreement so we need to talk about this. Will you be OK playing in your room so Mommy and Daddy can talk?" It will either give you some space to talk alone or make her aware your child is watching.

You won't never see the kids and she can't legally lock you out. If she does, text her (so it's in writing) and ask why she changed the locks or to give you a key, etc. It will prove you didn't move out voluntarily.

And if you WANT to try to make this craziness work (tho it's likely too late) you need IC. To let go of the perfect rose colored glasses you see O***** in and to become a better partner for your wife or your next relationship. And you need marriage counseling to help you communicate better and to learn her needs and how to meet them and vice versa for her.


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## hopeless116

We went to counseling a few times, but the last time the MC said that my wife was making things more difficult by not accepting my past mistakes. That made her furious, so we've never been back. I don't think MC will work for us. 

I think most (if not all) of her rage at me yesterday was hating me for causing the breakup of the family. Logically, I am a bad father for doing this. I don't agree with her, but that's her iron-clad logic. Last night I tried not engaging with her while she was screaming, but she just followed me around insulting me.

I'm starting to think that maybe she's right. Maybe I don't deserve my kids. Maybe they would all be better off without me. I tear up just thinking it. The thought of not having them in my life makes me ache. But there would be no more screaming in front of them with me gone.


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## MJJEAN

Get a lawyer. File divorce papers requesting a temporary custody order of 50/50. Once visitation is secured, move out into your own place. No more drama for the kids to witness.


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## Satya

With all due respect, sounds like she's done with you. Worse, sounds like she can't stand you. I'd give her an amicable divorce and get yourself into IC.


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## lifeistooshort

How sad that your family is ruined over an ex that probably doesn't remember you exist.

Assuming it's true that you haven't had contact. 

I suspect the reason your wife isn't over your past "mistakes" is that you are arrogant and haven't acknowledged them. Sure you can cry but that makes things about you. 

How about acknowledging to her that you treated her like a backup while you fantasized about O? How about acknowedging that it was sh!tty to tell her you couldn't promise you couldn't cheat? How about acknowledging that you treated her like she was beneath you and you could do better?

How about telling your wife that you were an arse and she's always been number 1 to you? This is the mother of your kids. 

Unless it's actually not true that she's always been number one.

Even here there's not one hint that you have any understanding of what you've put your wife through. She devoted her life to and had kids with a guy that viewed her as less than what he wanted and was entitled to. No wonder she screams at you. 

And what's your response? Don't acknowledge anything, just cry and make it about you again. 

Stop making everything about you and you might have a shot at saving this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

I greatly appreciate your candor about my situation lifeistooshort. Being selfless does not come easily to me. I was very selfish and self-centered when I met my wife. I have admitted to it many times and told her many times I understand if she can't stand me anymore. I believe I have changed and grown a lot over the years, but my wife believes it is too little too late.

I don't cry to manipulate the situation. It was only after an hour of screaming that I couldn't take it anymore and tears started to flow. I'm not such an actor that I can cry on command. Lately of course I can cry constantly and randomly start crying wherever I am.

Is it truly selfish of me to want equal access to my children? Wouldn't it be more selfish of me to ditch them all and just lay dead in the gutter somewhere? That would be a lot easier than what I'm going through now.

My health is declining rapidly. Over the past few months of fighting, not sleeping, sky-high anxiety, etc. I have gotten pneoumonia, debilitating diarhea, a new cold every week, pains throughout my body, painfully itching rashes, and breakouts all over my face that make me cringe to look at myself in the mirror. My work output has plummeted. We rely on my sole income and it is pretty hard to concentrate with everything happening.

I'm enduring all this, because I know it is my fault, and I want only to do what is right for my wife and family. If I just divorce her she will be without insurance (she is a SAHM), so I don't want to do that. It would probably make my life better, but what about hers? What about our kids? I just don't see her throwing me out to be a viable solution. I could be wrong, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.

Last night my wife asked me why I deserved equal access to our kids in light of what I've done. I could only say because I love them and they are the only joy I have left. It's another selfish answer really. But I can't imagine putting my happiness before theirs. I just want to develop a relationship with them. When they grow up, they can make a choice about whether or not they want me in their lives.


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## turnera

hopeless116 said:


> Last night my wife asked me why I deserved equal access to our kids in light of what I've done.


Um, what exactly have you done so egregious that you deserve to lose your children?


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## lifeistooshort

Hopeless, I don't say what I say to beat you down. I say it because I think if your wife feels you get it you might have a chance to save things.

Of course you should have access to your kids. Tell your wife that being s lousy hb has no bearing on your relationship with your kids. Unless you're a danger or neglectful. Are you?

I'm sure you've given apologies but I suspect your wife views them as generic. Like you either don't know what you're apologizing for or you're apologizing because what she feels is true. So your apologies don't address the source of her pain because you're simply sorry that what hurts her is true. 

Imagine that you're with O and she tells you that she doesn't feel for you what she felt for her ex and his c0ck was way bigger anyway. And if a guy with a bigger c0ck came along she couldn't promise not to cheat. How would that make you feel? 

That's why she screams, because at what she hears is "I'm sorry that I'm not over O and that I was open to cheating and that I view you as a backup". Of course that hurts.

So let's address this directly: is what your wife wrote true? Because if it is your marriage is over so let it go


If not then tell your wife that, because that's what she needs. I suspect it is true which is why you can give vague apologies and tears.

And why the fvck are you discussing large purchases with your parents without your wife? Is she your partner or simply a placeholder that you happen to have kids with?

Why did you marry your wife and not O?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Are we talking a laminate countertop or a granite countertop?


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## aine

hopeless116 said:


> I greatly appreciate your candor about my situation lifeistooshort. Being selfless does not come easily to me. I was very selfish and self-centered when I met my wife. I have admitted to it many times and told her many times I understand if she can't stand me anymore. I believe I have changed and grown a lot over the years, but my wife believes it is too little too late.
> But she is still there holding out with hope and what have you done about it?
> 
> 
> I don't cry to manipulate the situation. It was only after an hour of screaming that I couldn't take it anymore and tears started to flow. I'm not such an actor that I can cry on command. Lately of course I can cry constantly and randomly start crying wherever I am.Stop being a p**** and man up FFS! Crying is still all about you and the 'oh woe is me' BS. You created the **** storm now deal with it, if you are incapable of pulling out all the stops then stop whinging and get a divorce already
> 
> Is it truly selfish of me to want equal access to my children? Wouldn't it be more selfish of me to ditch them all and just lay dead in the gutter somewhere? That would be a lot easier than what I'm going through now.No, you are equally entitled to your kids but seeing as you have brought this down on their heads as well as your own, you could do a bit more than moaning and crying. You have never loved your wife the way she needed to be loved, remember the best gift a man can give his children is to love their mother, you haven't done that
> 
> My health is declining rapidly. Over the past few months of fighting, not sleeping, sky-high anxiety, etc. I have gotten pneoumonia, debilitating diarhea, a new cold every week, pains throughout my body, painfully itching rashes, and breakouts all over my face that make me cringe to look at myself in the mirror. My work output has plummeted. We rely on my sole income and it is pretty hard to concentrate with everything happening. And it is still all about you, not once have you stopped to consider the emotional hell you have put our wife through, your health, you not sleeping, you r pains and aches, YOU YOU YOU YOU, nothing will change until you take the focus of you and your pain and try and stand in your wife's shoes and yes take her emotional battering and not run away like a wuss, time to man up and take control and sort out the mess your created
> 
> I'm enduring all this, because I know it is my fault, and I want only to do what is right for my wife and family. If I just divorce her she will be without insurance (she is a SAHM), so I don't want to do that. It would probably make my life better, but what about hers? What about our kids? I just don't see her throwing me out to be a viable solution. I could be wrong, god knows it wouldn't be the first time.Take control, sit her down tell her you love her and you want to make it right, ask her how you can make it right. If you are not sincere, she will see through it so there is no point in pretending go ahead with divorce
> 
> Last night my wife asked me why I deserved equal access to our kids in light of what I've done. That is the talk of a very very hurt woman, she wants to hurt you and she seems to be succeedingI could only say because I love them and they are the only joy I have left. It's another selfish answer really. It is not selfish, I would hope they are your joy but where does she figure in all of this? Does she if you are being honest with yourself? But I can't imagine putting my happiness before theirs. I just want to develop a relationship with them. When they grow up, they can make a choice about whether or not they want me in their lives.


 You cannot expect them to be happy staying in a household like yours unless you take steps to sort it out, that would be selfish


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## hopeless116

Lately I've always approached weekends with fear because I have no idea what's going to happen. This last one was the same.

On Friday we went out with some friends and socialized. My wife was very happy and said that she shouldn't have yelled at me the way she did because it is counterproductive. I was very surprised to hear her say that. I assured her that I will do whatever it takes to provide the best lives for our children. Even if that means I move out and my relationship with them suffers. We slept very well.

Saturday was a great day. My wife caught up on a lot of paperwork while I worked on things outside. At one point she came outside and APOLOGIZED TO ME for laying out so much work outside. I didn't even mind, but I sure was surprised to hear her apologize. 

But she didn't sleep at all Saturday night. I woke up Sunday morning and found her in the office crying. I served her breakfast and gave her space. I took the kids out so that she could hopefully sleep. When we got home she seemed happy. After lunch she started asking me about why I've never regretted being with any of my exes, and why I didn't regret losing my virginity to someone other than her. I told her that I always loved her. She got angry again and threw water in my face, much to the horror of our 3yo who was standing by watching. Again my wife screamed at me to get out. She gradually calmed down after she told me to pour ice water over my head. I did that a couple of times. 

She later took the kids out while I cleaned up. When they got back she was happy again, telling jokes with me and the kids. We fell asleep holding each others hands. I'm not sure how she is able to bounce back and forth so quickly. Such an outburst in front of our children just makes me think I should move out for their sake, so that they won't witness such behavior. The thought fills me with sadness. How many outbursts is too many? As I mentioned, she's a SAHM, so I don't want to divorce to take away her insurance. And our marital troubles are really all my fault, so it really should be me who moves out. My only question is, when?


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## lifeistooshort

And once again you evade the question. Your wife asked you a specific question that you clearly didn't want to answer..... your wife wants to know why your exes are worth more then her.

And your response is that you've always loved her? Seriously? 

Translation: exes were better but I still love you and I don't have the stones to tell you that. Instead I'll just continue in my victim role and keep things all about me. 

Jeezus. .... let me ask this again: is what your wife wrote in her letter true? Is she less than your exes? Do you or did you wish you were with O instead?

Your wife must feel life she's talking to a brick wall.

If she was here I'd tell her to end this now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

The truth is that I've always loved my wife, and I have regretted my relationship with O since my wife and I had our first fight about it. I just didn't express that regret to her, mostly because I just didn't want to bring it up. I wanted to leave the past buried behind us. So she brings up the issue and I try to reassure her that I love only her. 

About a month after we first got married she brought up O again in a very angry way. She was convinced that I still had feelings for her, so I confessed to it an apologized. I didn't know what else to do. We seemed to move on.

Over the past year or two our marriage was starting to fall apart slowly. She was acting angry at me most of the time. The only reason I could think of for this to happen was because she was still convinced that I had feelings for O, so I again confessed and apologized. That basically blew up our relationship. Now she doesn't believe anything I say because I've lied the other way. 

This doesn't change how everything is still my fault, and I understand if she never believes a word I say ever again. I just want to know if it will be better for our kids to remove myself from triggering fights with my wife.

What has made her so angry lately is that I'm now telling her that I have regretted my relationship with O for the past 9 years and she doesn't believe me. I'm holding fast to the truth this time, no matter the pressure, but I don't have much confidence that the marriage can be saved. 

The facts of what were written the letter were true, so there is plenty of things broken in our relationship other than that. I was arrogant when she first met me, now she complains that I've become a wimp. I've just flopped between two extremes and she doesn't like either one. And I have been a lousy boyfriend and later a (obviously) lousy husband.

So yes, I'm sure to her it seems she is talking to a brick wall as she is accusing me of having an emotional affair and I am denying it.


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## 3Xnocharm

hopeless116 said:


> But she didn't sleep at all Saturday night. I woke up Sunday morning and found her in the office crying. I served her breakfast and gave her space. I took the kids out so that she could hopefully sleep. When we got home she seemed happy. After lunch she started asking me about why I've never regretted being with any of my exes, and why I didn't regret losing my virginity to someone other than her.


OK,THIS is insanity. Why in the hell does it matter all these years later WHO you lost your virginity to?? Why should you regret that?? Why should you have to regret ANY of your past relationships? Those make us who we are, and she needs to let go of the past. 




hopeless116 said:


> I told her that I always loved her. She got angry again and threw water in my face, much to the horror of our 3yo who was standing by watching. Again my wife screamed at me to get out. She gradually calmed down after she told me to pour ice water over my head. I did that a couple of times.


Even more insanity! Who does this?? Why would she tell you to do that, and better yet, WHY would you agree and do it?? You really need to move out so your child isn't forced to witness this! Shame on both of you! 

YES, I read the letter from your wife, and agree that your past behavior was pretty horrible. So...ARE you still harboring feelings for O? Have you been carrying on a relationship with O? If not then your wife has GOT to let go of the past! If SO, then you need to end this. Your wife never should have married you in the first place, and you acting so pathetic is only driving that point home to her.


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## MJJEAN

hopeless116 said:


> I just want to know if it will be better for our kids to remove myself from triggering fights with my wife.


Yes.

It is without a doubt very traumatic for young children to watch their parents scream, cry, throw things at each other, and try to kick each other out. At this point, I think the most loving thing you and your wife could do for the sake of the kids is divorce.

Do the standard 50/50 custody. That way you both have equal parenting time.


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## Miss Independent

hopeless116 said:


> After lunch she started asking me about why I've never regretted being with any of my exes, and why I didn't regret losing my virginity to someone other than her. I told her that I always loved her. She got angry again and threw water in my face,



1. You didn't answer her question. 

2. Something is missing. I mean she immediately threw water in your face AFTER your answer? You didn't say anything? You guys didn't argue/exchange hurtful words? 

Hmmm


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turnera

Are you telling me SHE told YOU to pour water over your OWN head? And you did it?

Twice?


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## lifeistooshort

You regret your relationship with O because you had/have feelings for her and your wife knows it.

Your wife is lower then O and she knows it.

You regretted it after your first fight because knew she was right. It was mistake for you guys to get married. 

And you didn't answer: why didn't you marry O?

Please stop evading and bullsh!tting, your wife knows she comes second and you'd have preferred to have O. It's clear you can't stop making things about you and you can't love her in the way she needs. 

Please give her an amicable divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

Sorry I didn't post in a while. My wife was feeling so happy I actually dared to hope for a while. 

Last night I knew she was angry again. She accused me of boasting about all my past relationship s and never caring about her. I'm grateful at least she didn't get physical. All I could do was repeat that I have always loved her. Because that's the truth, but she doesn't believe it.

I never cared for any of my exes. I never tried to make them happy. I never imagined a future with any of them. I never even wanted kids untily wife said she did. I knew I could have kids with her and no one else. None of my other relationships even lasted more than 2 months.

I have been fully committed and in love with my wife for 9 years, but she doesn't believe me.

A few months ago she asked me if I regretted being with O, I said no, even though that wasn't true. She said she will continue to aske why I said no until I give her an answer she will believe. Id give anything for a time machine to fix being with anyone else but her, but she thinks I'm holding on to memories 10years old of other women. I simply can't convince her of anything unless it's negative.

I don't haveuxh choice but to find a place and move out. Even living in the same house as roommates she will hound me about my exes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

The damage is done. In the meantime, your three year old is absorbing every moment of the craziness. Maybe it will be possible for the two of you to work on R while you are separated (occasionally that is a solution although usually it isn't). But in the meantime you need to get all of that away from your daughter. Children are like sponges at that age and she isn't missing any of it. So not only have you damaged your wife by your past behavior but you're damaging your daughter daily by not removing yourself from the situation. Keep in mind that not every relationship can be fixed and it may be too late for yours. But first you need to get some physical space between you. The current situation obviously isn't working.


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## lifeistooshort

I think you're not being honest with yourself, that's why you tell your wife one thing and then claim it's not true. 

I'm sorry, but your claims about telling your wife lies that only serve to upset here more don't make any sense. People do that to purposely hurt someone. 

I could almost see lying to make her feel better, such as lying about still thinking about O......ie telling your wife you don't think about her when you really do.

What reason could you have to tell lies that hurt her more unless it's really truth and you wish it wasn't or you're purposely being an a$$?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

Openminded said:


> The damage is done. In the meantime, your three year old is absorbing every moment of the craziness. Maybe it will be possible for the two of you to work on R while you are separated (occasionally that is a solution although usually it isn't). But in the meantime you need to get all of that away from your daughter. Children are like sponges at that age and she isn't missing any of it. So not only have you damaged your wife by your past behavior but you're damaging your daughter daily by not removing yourself from the situation. Keep in mind that not every relationship can be fixed and it may be too late for yours. But first you need to get some physical space between you. The current situation obviously isn't working.


R? I'm not very good with forum acronyms.

I'm not surprised that I can't convince anyone that I love my wife, because I can't convince her. Though it kills me inside all I can do is leave and hope they need me so that I can be with them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Openminded

R = Reconciliation / Recovery. 

Sometimes it isn't possible to recover a broken relationship. I don't normally suggest separation (since it usually just leads to divorce) but there's a lot of damage being done to your daughter at present and separation might be helpful. What's going on now obviously isn't helpful.


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## hopeless116

Another fight last night. My wife demanded to know everything about my relationship with my ex. If there was anything I couldn't remember, then I should contact her and ask her. Not really possible since I haven't spoken to her in 10 years.

She brought up another one of the lies I told before. When I was dating my wife I told her that O left her job and never came back. The truth is she did come back before I met my future wife. But I never spoke to her and avoided her as much as possible. My wife said that if she had known that she would definitely have dumped me back then, so our whole relationship is built on lies. 

I know it was wrong, but I just wanted to be with my wife so much. After much begging and pleading she agreed that we shouldn't punish our kids for my mistakes so I can live in the house to be in their lives and take care of them. We can't afford two residences on my salary alone anyway.

Now my wife is asking me questions about all my past dating history. Most of it is bad, I did a lot of dumb things when I was young. I just don't want to be judged for things I did before I met my wife. The things I did after I met her were bad enough. Talking about past exes has really ruined my life, I don't want to do it anymore, but my wife won't stop asking about it.


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## turnera

Why don't you just find O's phone number, call her up, and hand the phone to your wife?


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## 3Xnocharm

My god, you two are SUCH a trainwreck. Do everyone a favor and just divorce...REALLY divorce, none of this living in the same house bullsh!t, either.


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## hopeless116

3Xnocharm said:


> My god, you two are SUCH a trainwreck. Do everyone a favor and just divorce...REALLY divorce, none of this living in the same house bullsh!t, either.


My wife has been a SAHM for nearly 5 years as she has raised our kids. We can't afford two residences unless we sell our current house, which we are unwilling to do. We designed it together. She is starting a business that she can run from home, but we've sunk so much energy into fighting that she hasn't put much into it in a while.

It's easy for me to say I just want to be roommates, because that's more than I deserve.

I couldn't find O's number. My wife made me look for several days. Eventually she found out she had siblings and somehow managed to find their numbers. I left some messages about a month ago, and they never called back. Either the number is wrong, or O doesn't want to talk to me. I sure as he!! don't want to talk to her either.


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## turnera

Look. What's really wrong here is that you are a Nice Guy and as a result, your wife is in freefall fear, because YOU are not being a strong, confident male.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet? That's your first job if you want to fix this marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm

hopeless116 said:


> My wife has been a SAHM for nearly 5 years as she has raised our kids. We can't afford two residences unless we sell our current house, which we are unwilling to do. We designed it together. She is starting a business that she can run from home, but we've sunk so much energy into fighting that she hasn't put much into it in a while.
> 
> It's easy for me to say I just want to be roommates, because that's more than I deserve.
> 
> I couldn't find O's number. My wife made me look for several days. Eventually she found out she had siblings and somehow managed to find their numbers. I left some messages about a month ago, and they never called back. Either the number is wrong, or O doesn't want to talk to me. I sure as he!! don't want to talk to her either.


Its JUST A HOUSE. Let it go! And if she struggles on her own, oh well, that's not your problem, and vice versa. The two of you have created a sick environment for your children and are looking to make it even worse.


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## hopeless116

Thanks for all your replies. I've decided to just not talk about my exes no matter how much my wife badgers me. I agree it is creating a toxic environment for our kids. I've accepted being a failure as a husband, but I cannot accept failure as a parent.


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## turnera

Or...you could take the advice you asked for, and read No More Mr Nice Guy.


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## manfromlamancha

Sorry to have you here hopeless! I am going to go against the flow slightly and will probably get bashed for saying this but here it is:


I fully understand your wife's behaviour. You have mistreated her and she doesn't even feel 2nd best at times. It is clear she is now lashing out at you trying to inflict the same pain on you.


I also think that it is clear (if what you said is true) that you had more feelings for O than your wife. And not only that, you made it very clear that this was the case, cruelly going on to rub her face in it at times. It was cruel of you to marry your wife.


From your posts, its still not very clear how you feel about your wife. Why do you want to stay with her ? Is it just the fear of breaking up the family ? Or of yet another failed marriage ? Or the financial aspect ? Or do you really, really love her and see all her good clearly and are really sorry for treating her badly ? If it is the last, you have a hell of a lot of work to do. She needs to know that you clearly see what you have done wrong, have a truthful explanation for your behaviour, and are genuine about why you now love her more than anyone else (including O) and will back her in anything she wants to know - EVEN if you two are destined to split and divorce! This is the very least you should do (as I said, even if you are going to lose her).

Take care and work on becoming a better person. I really do hope that you truly love your wife above everyone else and let her know that through actions and words.


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## MJJEAN

You. You. You. You.

Wife. Wife. Wife. Wife.

She can't handle the fact that you had sex before her. You can't be honest on a consistent basis to save your life. 

You are both seriously self absorbed and emotionally immature. You both need to suck it up, let go of the high school drama, and start acting in the best interests of your children. And living in grossly immature toxic soup is NOT even close to whats in the best interests of your children.

Get a better job. Get two jobs if you need to. Tell your wife she needs to get a job, too. Then do the right thing and just get a divorce. You talk a good game about being concerned for your kids, now do something to prove it.


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## hopeless116

Another fight like most nights, but finally a revelation this time.

Instead of asking me more details about my exes, my wife switched to asking me about people I've asked out and been rejected by. Then she started googling the names. I finally shut down the conversation and she said I must be hiding something bad. 

What could be worse than what I've already told her?

She said she feels as though she doesn't know me because I never had any friends. The first part shocked me. That last part is true. Other than my family, I only really know people I work with and went to school with. Also I don't really keep in contact with anyone.

I told her what I've said many times before: I was obsessed with work for most of my life, but meeting her gave me a new dream for life. All I've done since meeting her is to try to fulfill her dreams. My life belongs to her and it always will. I didn't think she would believe me, so I threatened to go on a hunger strike until she did. She became happy after that. She was also happy this morning when I left for work.

Before I left, I told her she was the only one for me. She corrected me and reminded me of our kids. I hope every day can start like this.


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## lifeistooshort

manfromlamancha said:


> Sorry to have you here hopeless! I am going to go against the flow slightly and will probably get bashed for saying this but here it is:
> 
> 
> I fully understand your wife's behaviour. You have mistreated her and she doesn't even feel 2nd best at times. It is clear she is now lashing out at you trying to inflict the same pain on you.
> 
> 
> I also think that it is clear (if what you said is true) that you had more feelings for O than your wife. And not only that, you made it very clear that this was the case, cruelly going on to rub her face in it at times. It was cruel of you to marry your wife.
> 
> 
> From your posts, its still not very clear how you feel about your wife. Why do you want to stay with her ? Is it just the fear of breaking up the family ? Or of yet another failed marriage ? Or the financial aspect ? Or do you really, really love her and see all her good clearly and are really sorry for treating her badly ? If it is the last, you have a hell of a lot of work to do. She needs to know that you clearly see what you have done wrong, have a truthful explanation for your behaviour, and are genuine about why you now love her more than anyone else (including O) and will back her in anything she wants to know - EVEN if you two are destined to split and divorce! This is the very least you should do (as I said, even if you are going to lose her).
> 
> Take care and work on becoming a better person. I really do hope that you truly love your wife above everyone else and let her know that through actions and words.



You're not completely against the grain. This is exactly what I was trying to tell him but maybe your way was better and more to the point. 

I do not think his wife is done with him, I think she's crying out to feel like she's the most important woman he's been with. And for whatever reason he's not giving that to her, and I think he's not been entirely honest with anyone about his feelings.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Have you read His Needs Her Needs yet? If you want every day to be like this, READ THE BOOK.


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## hopeless116

I just thought of a story from my past which I hope will clear things up with my wife. 

When I was in college I was friends with a guy (call him Larry). He seemed a decent guy. We performed similarly in classes and took similar ones, so we ran into each other frequently and started hanging out together a lot. Mostly for studying, but also for hanging out.

At a similar time this girl was flirting with me a lot. Honestly, I wasn't really that into her and told her that I wanted to focus on studying (my classes were really hard at the time). She backed off. When I told Larry, he said that he had lost respect for me (in some slang way I can't remember). We hung out a few more times after that, again mostly for studying. He stopped returning my phone calls after finals. 

There were probably other things about me that he didn't like, but the only thing he said he didn't like about me was that I turned down dates with women I didn't like. He had the typical 'Man must hit every willing girl' mentality. I didn't have another male friend for nearly 5 years after that. It wasn't long after that I started to adopt a similar mentality. I thought that if I did the same things I would be popular and people might like me.

The result is my current misery. I remain bitter about 'Male culture' and the things it has led me to do, and mostly I just want to warn my son and daughter to not make the same mistakes I did.

What do you think? Does it provide any insight on what's going on with my wife?


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## turnera

Not at all. But it shows you have low self esteem. What are you doing about that?


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## hopeless116

turnera said:


> Not at all. But it shows you have low self esteem. What are you doing about that?


So it doesn't provide any insight? Is it even worth mentioning?


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## 3Xnocharm

turnera said:


> Not at all. But it shows you have low self esteem. What are you doing about that?


Agreed! Not in the least. 

Your wife has serious issues. I don't think you are nearly as fixated on O as she believes you to be, and she needs to just divorce you instead of making everyone's lives so miserable.


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## ricky15100

3Xnocharm said:


> Agreed! Not in the least.
> 
> Your wife has serious issues. I don't think you are nearly as fixated on O as she believes you to be, and she needs to just divorce you instead of making everyone's lives so miserable.


At last, some decent advice! She sounds totally insecure

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## hopeless116

I agree that my wife has low self esteem. The way she describes her parents treatment of her as a child sound like abuse to me. She has also said that she only stayed with me out of pressure from her friends and family. They kept saying that I was handsome and polite etc., even though she didn't really want to be with me. She basically just caved to the pressure.

I've known my wife 9 years, and could not really see signs of low self-esteem. She often complains that she hasn't accomplished much in her life. She grew up in abject poverty in a third-world country. Seriously, she was malnourished as a child. Yet she's fluent in 3 languages, proficient in a fourth. Holds a Ph.D. in geophysics; master of a couple computing languages; accomplished dancer; plays piano; designed the house we live in; fantastic cook; gardener; not to mention our beautiful 3yo and 1yo who are as happy and well-behaved as I've ever seen. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Somehow, it's not enough. She also frequently has stated that she won't be satisfied until she is a billionare. I thought she was kidding, but I think she's actually serious.

I know I've done more than my part in wrecking our marriage, but I think I need to start paying more attention to her self-esteem and doing as much as I can to build it up. It's a tender spot that I've neglected for far too long.

We actually had a good weekend, best in a long while. She only jabbed at me a couple times. We set up X-mas decorations and went to a few parties. Had a great time overall. She's still not asking for her ring back. Maybe if I focus more on her self-esteem she will be willing to wear it again.


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## turnera

Have you read His Needs Her Needs yet?


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## hopeless116

turnera said:


> Have you read His Needs Her Needs yet?


I read the first chapter. It seemed really focused on cheating. Neither of us has cheated on the other. My wife only thinks I had an EA without contacting anyone.

It's not a subject I care to bring up again. 

Also, I never know how she will react when I spend money. I could easily see her responding with something like "There's tons of free advice on the internet! Why would you spend money?"

Thanks for the advice, I'm sure it's a great book, but it's actually risky for me right now.


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## hopeless116

Things have been going well lately. We've been joking, laughing, sleeping together. She hasn't asked for her ring back and I'm scared to offer it. Maybe on New Year's if things keep going well. New start, right?

I'm taking every opportunity I can to praise my wife to raise her self-esteem. At the very least, it seems to make her happy.

Last night she told me that there was a conference in China she wanted to go to in April. It would help tremendously with her startup business so I'm fully supportive. As it would be a working trip, there is no logical way to bring the kids. She also doesn't want to go alone. I told her I want to go with her, but the only people I trust to watch the kids while we are gone (2 weeks at least) are my parents. If they're available and willing we can drop them off at their house. They will be here for Christmas, so we can figure out their availability then. 

All good signs so far, she actually wants me to go with her someplace. I hope it works out. I'm starting to hope for a bright future.

Thank you all for your responses. I can't tell you how much it has helped me open my eyes to what's going on right under my nose. This is such a great forum in that you call BS when you see it. Please don't change it at all.


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## turnera

hopeless116 said:


> I read the first chapter. It seemed really focused on cheating. Neither of us has cheated on the other. My wife only thinks I had an EA without contacting anyone.
> 
> It's not a subject I care to bring up again.
> 
> Also, I never know how she will react when I spend money. I could easily see her responding with something like "There's tons of free advice on the internet! Why would you spend money?"
> 
> Thanks for the advice, I'm sure it's a great book, but it's actually risky for me right now.


The book starts out talking about affairs, just to show you what could happen if you don't learn each other's Emotional Needs and learn how you Love Bust each other - so you can MEET each other's ENs and AVOID all LBs. THAT is what the book's about. It teaches you how to make each other happy, so happy that you'll never even think of straying.

I, too, was skeptical. Until I read it and had that palm slap to the forehead moment, and it was like 'Ah, now I get it, no wonder my marriage is so screwed up.'

Please give it a try. And really? You're not allowed to spend $8? If THAT is your situation, you have a lot more problems than not meeting her needs. 

But if you're so scared of telling her you have the right to spend $8, you can download it for free, I think, and you can always get a copy at your local library. And while you're there, get a copy of No More Mr Nice Guy to figure out how to stop being afraid of standing up for yourself.


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## hopeless116

I reads through his needs her needs. It wasn't very insightful.

When my wife saw me reading it she asked if I was planning an affair. I told her I'm just trying to meet her needs.

She once again brought up a conversation we had months ago when I stupidly said I don't regret being with O. The truth is I've regretted it since my first fight with my wife 9years ago. But she doesn't believe it. She said she can't move on until she knows the truth and she doesn't believe the truth. She also said that we shouldn't needed to talk because we should know each others thoughts well enough by now. I can't meet that standard.

Sigh... just feeling lost again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Offer to take a polygraph.


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## MJJEAN

hopeless116 said:


> I reads through his needs her needs. It wasn't very insightful.
> 
> When my wife saw me reading it she asked if I was planning an affair. I told her I'm just trying to meet her needs.
> 
> She once again brought up a conversation we had months ago when I stupidly said I don't regret being with O. The truth is I've regretted it since my first fight with my wife 9years ago. But she doesn't believe it. She said she can't move on until she knows the truth and she doesn't believe the truth. She also said that we shouldn't needed to talk because we should know each others thoughts well enough by now. I can't meet that standard.
> 
> Sigh... just feeling lost again.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She can move on if she wants to. She just doesn't want to. She clearly enjoys the drama. The next time she starts harping on who you fvcked before you met her, say "Grow the hell up and get over it or file for divorce. Either way, I don't want to hear about it anymore." Because, seriously, this is ridiculous. 

And she thinks you should be able to read each others minds? Really? Where did she learn about romantic relationships and marriage? Disney? Bodice ripper novels? Certainly not reality.


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## hopeless116

She brought up our first fight from 9 years ago. She wanted to know why I could still play it. I managed to not mention how frustrated I was about fighting about stuff from 9 years ago, but it was hard.

She said she hates me and wants me dead. I just left her in bed because I don't want to upset her more. What she really wants is to do the last decade over. She can't accept that our marriage is in shambles and would probably rather be miserable than do anything about it.

She told me she was upset that I read his needs her needs. She doesn't want to think about our relationship because it makes her upset. I didn't intended to tell her, but the library texted her when I checked it out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

I think you're still not really grasping what it is your wife is looking for, and maybe she doesn't either. Your wife wants to feel like number 1 in your life, and thanks to you sticking this "O" in her face in your early days she never has. And you continue to be dishonest about your own feelings, because you simultaneously claim that your wife is more important but then admit that what she said in her letter is true. That's likely part of what's fueling this, that you keep contradicting yourself, and you don't ever give her a straight answer. As long as you keep bullsh!tting you won't be able to give straight answers.

Why don't you start by being honest, so you don't have to keep covering this up and contradicting yourself.....then you'll at least have some credibility. Do you regret O? Do not say yes because you've fought with your wife about it, say yes because that's how you feel. And if you don't that's fine, we're not required to regret our pasts. If you could do everything over again what would you do differently? Once you answer that you'll be on the path to honesty. Geez, you're wrecking your life over a woman (O) that didn't even return any calls.....clearly you don't matter in the least to her, nor should you. Or she just respects marital boundaries and if so good for her.

Maybe you should try telling your wife that what you regret is treating her like dogsh!t and not treating her like the jewel she is, and that while you understand that she'd be upset that she wasn't your first you also feel that some past experience allowed you to understand how wonderful she is. That's a reference point that people with no past don't have. And if you could visit your younger self you'd slap the sh!t out of him for being such an arrogant jerk. 

Then tell her that O is just a figment of your past that hasn't mattered in years and it's been all about her for as long as you can remember.

If that's not enough then your marriage isn't salvageable. 

IMO, if you tell her to grow the fvck up you might as well just file for divorce now. You don't make clear to someone that they are less than your exes and then tell them to grow the fvck up, you fix what you break. And you start by acknowledging what you broke, how you did it, and what's required to fix it.


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## Openminded

You have a few good days with her and then you think things are good. But they aren't. The damage is very deep and I'm not sure it's possible for your marriage to recover -- especially since she doesn't want to think about it. You can certainly keep trying to rebuild but you also need a plan for life without her. Just in case.


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## turnera

I just don't get it. You guys keep treating him like he is some awful pig and I keep asking what he's done that is so bad, and all I hear is 'he liked another woman and wonders about what life with her would have been like.' That's it? That's enough for you guys to be telling him how horrible he is?

I still think about my ex-fiance of nearly 40 years ago sometimes, wonder what it would have been like, but it doesn't make me a bad person.

What am I missing?


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## thenub

180 time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hopeless116

Don't know what to do. Last night she asked why I said the violins name when we met. I said I only wanted to talk about my hobby. She said that's a lie and when I say that I make her more mad. By this time I hadn't slep for two days. She asked if I said it because I thought she liked me. I broke and said yes.

She started hitting me. I ran to the office and blocked the door. She tried to force inside. She called me a coward. She said if I don't come out I choose O over her. 

I come out and accuse her of controlling me. She said that is bs and I am irresponsible for not accepting punishment. Don't know what to do. This is not who I married. I think I have no choice but to give up. She gets mad when I tell the truth and hits me when I lie. I suggested separating and she got mad at me for breaking up the family.

Don't know what to do. Don't know what to do. Help me please.


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## turnera

MOVE OUT!

For God's sake, move out!


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## lifeistooshort

Is there any chance you could get your wife to post here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Yeah, this is getting out of hand. You can't solve this on your own. ... move out before someone gets hurt. You guys MIGHT be able to address this with counseling. .. make that a non negotiable for any kind of reconciliation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

turnera said:


> I just don't get it. You guys keep treating him like he is some awful pig and I keep asking what he's done that is so bad, and all I hear is 'he liked another woman and wonders about what life with her would have been like.' That's it? That's enough for you guys to be telling him how horrible he is?
> 
> I still think about my ex-fiance of nearly 40 years ago sometimes, wonder what it would have been like, but it doesn't make me a bad person.
> 
> What am I missing?


I'll try to answer. I don't think he's an awful pig, I think he treated his wife very poorly early in their relationship and there is lingering damage from it. Instead of addressing it he is dishonest, dodges her questions, and turns himself into the victim.

Read the letter she wrote him, which he agreed with. He flat out told her she wasn't as good and he couldn't promise not to cheat, and he very clearly was not over this O person.... and he went out of his way to rub her nose in it. That's not a guy who just ponders what life might have been like, which I agree we all do. 

His wife is in a ton of pain from having her face rubbed in the fact that he preferred others, and as she can't get what she needs from him she's getting crazier.

I'm trying to get through to him because I don't think his wife wants to break up, and this has to be a miserable place for her to be. 

They can't work this out without intensive counseling. I think he should remove himself from this situation and get himself to counseling, and the two of them absolutely need MC to have any chance. If she refuses file for divorce now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

How did he treat her poorly?


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## lifeistooshort

Read the letter she wrote him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I did. She goes on and on about the first girlfriend. She says he was arrogant and belittled people.

What am I missing?


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## hopeless116

Thank you for your replies. In truth, both viewpoints are not mutually exclusive.

Now I have a new problem. I am very angry with her. I'm no longer sure I want to reconcile. I woke up this morning so angry and I don't want to take it out on anyone.

I will pull away from my wife for now and hope my anger fades. 

She doesn't know about these posting s. I'm sure she would get mad about them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

Thank you for offering to speak with my wife, Lifeistooshort. You are a truly selfless person. There is just nothing I can do to convince her of the truth that I have only loved her.

Last night she was crying in bed. She said it wasn't entirely my fault because she never really loved means never said so. She proceeded to ask more questions about O. I told her I'm done talking about that b!tch. She wouldn't let it go. I slept on the couch. 

Just so sad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

Have you considered setting aside one evening where everything is on the table? She can ask anything she wants and you will answer with no bullsh!t?

Make ask agreement that she will get complete honesty and no crying from you and in return she will not fly off the handle. Just for this evening. 

If you do this you must be completely honest. That means when she asks about the violin do not bullsh!t her about only wanting to talk about your hobby, we both know that's not true. 

When she wants to know why you said you couldn't promise not to cheat do not lie or deny saying it. 

One evening, total honesty, everything on the table. 

What do you have to lose?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

I begged her and pleaded with her to stay with me. I promised to do anything. She said thinking about our relationship only makes her depressed. She knows her only chance for happiness is a future without me.

Her #1 dream in life was an intact and happy family. I've taken that away from the only person I've ever loved. 

Thank you all for your advice in trying to help me. I hope I can contribute back somehow. But my main hope now is that he!! Is real and there is a place for me there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good grief.


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## lifeistooshort

Stop being a drama queen, that's part of your problem. Geez, you were a jerk but that's hardly a hvllbound offense.

This is the reason your wife is getting crazy, everything becomes about you. 

Example:
Her: why did you do x?
You: lie, bullsh!t, backtrack, cry, refuse to discuss, declare yourself a worthless pos that deserves hvll. So now it has to be about assuring you you're not worthless and her question is still unanswered. 

Yet all your wife wanted was a straight answer. 

Man up, giver her an evening to ask anything she wants, answer honestly, tell her what you feel, and if she wants to leave don't beg.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

I apologize for that dramatic outburst. It was unhelpful. My wife explained that over the past 6 months she has been reinvesting in our relationship, but she is always disappointed by our conversations.

Lately she was disappointed that I would accuse her of being controlling, which she interpreted as evil. Apparently I should have just laid there and let her hit me. Yeah, she was also disappointed that I ran and hid in the office.

Last night she said she will disconnect from me, but she said she needs to hear me confess that I had feelings for O. I couldn't do it. Because I don't believe it, and because I am still afraid she will hit me. I confessed to being a selfish cowardly jerk, which is still true.

Thank you for your advice. I wish I hadn't wasted time on other forums. I wish for a lot of things.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort

You are making this much harder on yourself then it needs to be. Your wife wants to be with you and she wants to be number one in your life. 

She doesn't believe you about O because claiming you didn't have feelings for her is inconsistent with your past actions.

When was the last time you did have feelings for O? Have you asked your wife if she wants you to confess whether it's true or not?

Have you asked her directly what she needs from you? 

I apologize if you've already addressed that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

lifeistooshort said:


> Have you asked your wife if she wants you to confess whether it's true or not?


Obviously.

Dude, just book a therapy appointment when you know your wife will be free, and an hour ahead of it, tell her you've booked it, for her sake because you want her to be happy, and you want to go with her there so she can let the therapist help her get what she wants from you.


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## hopeless116

You guys are amazing for posting on Christmas Eve. We tried the therapy to stay together. Are you suggesting we use it to separate?

I mentioned before about my declining health. Well hers us in much worse shape. Whenever she thinks about our relationship, she gets depressed and angry. She doesn't want to feel that way anymore.

While I was confessing to being a jerk before I told her that the reason I wanted to be with her was because I admired her. That's not the relationship she wants or deserves. I wish I could explain further, but I have limited typing time and ability on my cell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

She saw the frame I had made for one of her paintings. She hated it. She said it is spending money on O.

I won't even give her the other thing I had made. What a Christmas.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 3Xnocharm

Dude...your wife has SERIOUS issues. You two need to just stop. Divorce and allow each other to go find your happiness. Sheesh.


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## hopeless116

Christmas eve night... I'm sleeping on a couch with the love of my life hating me in the next room.

For you TAM members who are reading this, I am extremely grateful you would bother to even click. If you responded then I appreciate you all the more. 

Merry Christmas you devoted curators of Cupid.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

Told my parents we are separating. My wife is going to look for a job. She's giving up on her dream of owning a business.

Wherever she ends up, I will try to follow for the sake of the kids.

Now my parents know. Somehow it made everything seem less real, like this is all a nightmare I will wake from.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

You're taking a necessary first step toward SOME sort of sanity for the two of you, who obviously don't belong together.


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## hopeless116

Not much time to post.
Last night wife said she will forgive me if I allow her to hit me as much as she wants. I agree and get slapped a few times.

This morning I get slapped 15 or 20 times. I can't face my kids. Hitting done in private so they can't see. I told my wife I don't want to do this anymore. She said I should get hit more or leave.

More happened will post later
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

Hopeless, can you of your wife be considered disabled? PM...


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## turnera

WHAT THE HELL?

What the hell is WRONG with you?

And do ANY of you now see that his wife is looney toons instead of him?!

hopeless, NO wife needs to slap her husband. It is sick, it is unhealthy, it is dysfunctional, and it is the absolute WRONG thing to do, to allow. What's worse is that YOU are allowing it. You both need help.


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## hopeless116

Contunued from last post...

After I refused to get hit more she went for a hammer to break everything. I tried to reason with her but she tried to hit me in front of kids. I barricaded myself in office and she started breaking door with hammer. I call police. She calms down when they arrive. I don't press charges.

I leave for a few hours and call my parents. I tell them everything. Wife calls and promises never to hit me again. She has never broken a promise to me. I go home and she is mad at me for taking away the only thing that took away her anger. She will leave unless I can find a new way to fix problem.

I call friend from school. He listens to whole story. After a few hours he says we need to rebuild relationship from beginning. Wife agrees.

She said it's the best advice she's ever heard.

Just an update.


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## naiveonedave

if the sexes were reversed, you would be advised to press charges, get a restraining order and get to a shelter house. I think this is good advice for you. I certainly would not feel safe sleeping in the same house where a person tried to assault me with a hammer.


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## turnera

She's mad at you for taking away the only thing that took away her anger? You mean you took away your BODY for her to beat on with a hammer? And your FRIEND said nothing about you being beaten, just that you need to rebuild your relationship? 

Are we being punked?


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## lifeistooshort

turnera said:


> She's mad at you for taking away the only thing that took away her anger? You mean you took away your BODY for her to beat on with a hammer? And your FRIEND said nothing about you being beaten, just that you need to rebuild your relationship?
> 
> Are we being punked?


That was my thought as well. This can't be real.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## hopeless116

Again comes the fear that I will be banned from a forum.

Let me explain my friends logic.

He has seen arranged marriages work, so he believes we have a better chance than them because of our common interests. As long as we don't bring up the past we can build the relationship the way it should have from the beginning. It's like laying down bricks. When we fight we are 9only laying down something other than bricks, so that should be avoided until we have a strong relationship built.

Of course I'm afraid thus won't work. I'm also afraid we may be taxing our friend too much.

Please believe my words. This is really happening to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Then do the right thing and GO SEE A THERAPIST. Your wife is mentally ill and you can't handle this by yourself.

Good grief.


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## hopeless116

I think I didn't make the story clear. My wife didn't attack me with a hammer. She tried to hit me with her hands, but got the hammer once I barricaded myself in the office. She used the hammer to break a hole in the door. A slight difference, but important to make.


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## lifeistooshort

There is no room for physical violence. NONE. I don't care what kind of arse you've been, do not tolerate violence. Tell her that you don't care what kind of pos you are you will call the police next time she's violent.

I know she's hurting and I understand why. Does not justify violence. 

If that's what you've come to you have to leave. See a lawyer to make sure you're not abandoning the family and then get out, even if temporarily. You guys need intense counseling, both together and separately.

You can't solve this alone.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Your wife is SICK.

MENTALLY ILL.

Get her help.


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