# Is this a normal thing?



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

Separated for two plus months, living separately for that length of time. She still wants to talk a couple of times a week, and meet once a week to discuss/work on us. Most of the time I come away from that meeting feeling like I have had an emotional and mental beating. No I’m not great with emotions I admit and I have a hard time saying no to her. She still wants to reconcile but I don’t, says she loves me etc, etc. also is trying to guilt me to coming back, using adult children and religious basis. She has not let me tell our adult children we are separated, they both live several hours away. My gut tells me not to go back. Anyway two questions. Is it unusual for her to pull out all the stops to keep us married (for the sake of being married)? Is it time for me to join a divorce group for support? She has joined one at her church. The original reason we separated was verbal abuse that I got tired of. Went to mc for four months without positive results. Apparently I caused her to treat me like that. &#55357;&#56832;

Thanks


----------



## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Welcome to TAM.

A little more info will help you get better replies:

How old are each of you?
1st marriage, 2nd? Etc.
How long have you been married?
How long has this been a problem?
What other steps have you taken to try to solve this problem?
Do you think she is still in love with you?
Are you in love with her?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

Uselessmale said:


> The original reason we separated was verbal abuse that I got tired of. Went to mc for four months without positive results. Apparently I caused her to treat me like that. ��
> 
> Thanks


You leaving made it real for your W. In other words, you gave it your best shot giving you W months to work on the verbal abuse. I would guess your W did not put to much work into it. You then leaving made your W realize she has failed herself and you. Good for you standing your ground and separating. 

Don't accept any idea that you caused the verbal abuse. Total nonsense. 

Let your W continue to work on herself. Your W actions will tell the tale of her changing. Words do not.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

No contact, brother. File the divorce papers and move on from the crazy.


----------



## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

Uselessmale said:


> Separated for two plus months, living separately for that length of time. She still wants to talk a couple of times a week, and meet once a week to discuss/work on us. Most of the time I come away from that meeting feeling like I have had an emotional and mental beating. No I’m not great with emotions I admit and I have a hard time saying no to her. She still wants to reconcile but I don’t, says she loves me etc, etc. also is trying to guilt me to coming back, using adult children and religious basis. She has not let me tell our adult children we are separated, they both live several hours away. My gut tells me not to go back. Anyway two questions. Is it unusual for her to pull out all the stops to keep us married (for the sake of being married)? Is it time for me to join a divorce group for support? She has joined one at her church. The original reason we separated was verbal abuse that I got tired of. Went to mc for four months without positive results. Apparently I caused her to treat me like that.


I think that if you guys are separated, and you come away from your weekly get togethers with her feeling awful, then I would say that you have your answer about whether or not to get back together. 

Answer to Question #1: I don't think it's unusual for her to do this, as she's probably realizing what she lost, and is willing to change now. Often at this point, it's too little, too late.

Answer to Question #2: It's up to you as to whether to join a divorce support group. You can always post here (folks are really helpful and full of great advice here). You can also choose to see a therapist. This is what I did, and both helped greatly.

Who's idea was it to separate? Why won't she let you tell your adult children about the separation? Why do you say that you caused her to verbally abuse you?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

How old?


----------



## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Ursula said:


> I think that if you guys are separated, and you come away from your weekly get togethers with her feeling awful, then I would say that you have your answer about whether or not to get back together.
> Agreed
> Answer to Question #1: I don't think it's unusual for her to do this, as she's probably realizing what she lost, and is willing to change now. Often at this point, it's too little, too late.
> Except it doesn't really sound like she has any intention of changing.
> ...


----------



## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Uselessmale said:


> is trying to guilt me to coming back, using adult children and religious basis.
> Is it unusual for her to pull out all the stops to keep us married (for the sake of being married)?


No, it's not at all unusual, especially if her reasons for remaining married are "religious". "Religious" reasons frequently have only "blind obedience" as their rationale, they cannot be argued with, because no one can argue with "God". Unfortunately, this "God" is not usually the God of the Bible. This "God" is based upon human performance and human works. The person is not made in God's image, rather, "God" is made in their image.....

Not wanting you to tell the adult children is also a manipulation. If the adult children "know", then the use of them as a coercion tool will go away. Tell them.



Uselessmale said:


> Is it time for me to join a divorce group for support?


I am fully behind the idea of support groups. However, there is a wide array of what's available. The best groups have a professional or pastoral moderator, and use well-produced curricula for their teaching. I'm not behind groups which are nothing more than commiseration sessions, offering no answers.

I have attended a church-sponsored group meeting called GriefShare....it's not about divorce, but is comprised of people who have lost loved ones to death.
It is a group such as I described. The educational materials, films, books, are very, very well done, and present SOLUTIONS to grief as well as "support". The emphasis is on the solutions, what do I DO to recover from grief?.

I tried a couple of other groups, but did not come back after the first session. All they did was tell each other how bad they felt. They must have seriously enjoyed doing that, because some of the attendees stated they had been coming there for YEARS. However, I had no interest in anything which required years of attendance in order to have, what seemed to me, no effect at all on the participants. They were lamenting as if their loved one's death was yesterday.



Uselessmale said:


> Apparently I caused her to treat me like that.


No, sir, you did not. How we treat other people is OUR CHOICE..... and has absolutely no basis in how the other person treats us, unless we are fully engaged in revenge.

The next time she implies, or says, that this is "your fault"..... tell her to go and re-read Romans 12:19..... and, whether or not she truly knows this "God" she claims to serve.....


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

We are both 55 married 32 years next month. WE have had “difficulties “ for several years. About 4 years ago she quit having anything to do with me over a couple of months period of time. She has always spoken to me in an abusive manner. SHe is an only child of parents that are verbally nasty to each other. I started ic in January 2018. We started mc in February of 2018. I was the one that found the mc and made appointments. Bared my soul, and 4 months later was told by mc that there was nothing else she could do be I wasn’t trying. Had been asking w to go to ic since January but refused. When I moved out she decided to go to ic with the mc we were seeing. I was told during mc just forget the past and start new, like nothing ever happened..

I think she doesn’t want the children to know bc they would understand why I left. Even now, in their mid twenties, they will tell me something and still ask me not to “tell mom”. 

I have been posting here since February and have found support from 99% of the denizens. Many of you have been where I am right now and even though I probably know what to do I sometimes need to hear it from you. Sometimes I like the advice sometimes I don’t, and sometimes I get told things I don’t want to hear but need too. The reason I asked about joining a local group is that I think I need to be around people.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Yeswecan said:


> You leaving made it real for your W. In other words, you gave it your best shot giving you W months to work on the verbal abuse. I would guess your W did not put to much work into it. You then leaving made your W realize she has failed herself and you. Good for you standing your ground and separating.
> 
> Don't accept any idea that you caused the verbal abuse. Total nonsense.
> 
> Let your W continue to work on herself. Your W actions will tell the tale of her changing. Words do not.


Until you experience it, the stories sound so "unreal"

You go to dinner. You're having a great time.... ravenously eating your food. It's a beautiful night to sit outside. Suddenly, you realize that the pepper in the food is tickling your nose a bit and you look up - and she's holding out a napkin for you.

Good times. Just enjoying each other.


----------



## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Here is the number one question...has she given you any indication that she has accept fault in behavior and is willing to change?


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Just reading your initial post, I would say that You are not healing yet. Talking twice a week is keeping you from getting better.

What I am seeing is this:
Over a long period of time consistent criticism has worn down your self esteem. Your self esteem is so low that you can't say no to her.
You decided to separate over verbal abuse.
You come away from each meeting / conversation with fresh abuse. 

I have some advice. First you need to establish some boundaries. You haven't done this for some time so I will suggest a few.
Boundary one - You will not reconcile or end separation until you have healed and have a positive self esteem, including being able to say no.
Boundary two - You will not accept verbal abuse. The minute you feel bad, or beaten down or abused, the conversation will end. It will not start again until the next *scheduled* meeting.
Boundary three - Meetings, or calls will be scheduled in advance, and *both* of you will agree to that schedule.

What you and she both need to fully understand is that you are not able to make any decision about reconciliation. You need to heal from the abuse and regain some self esteem before you can even consider it. In order for you to heal and stay in the level of contact she desires, she needs to quickly change her pattern of behavior. She may not be able to do that. 

Someone will have to tell her about your boundaries and her need to change behavior. If you can't, and you may not be able to, a mediator will have to do it for you. On the other hand enforcing the boundaries is your homework for building self esteem. Every time you say no, or end a conversation, you will build self worth.


----------



## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Uselessmale said:


> ......... Most of the time I come away from that meeting feeling like I have had an emotional and mental beating. No I’m not great with emotions I admit and I have a hard time saying no to her. She still wants to reconcile *but I don’t*............ also is trying to guilt me to coming back, using adult children and religious basis. She has not let me tell our adult children we are separated, t......... *My gut tells me not to go back*. Anyway two questions. Is it unusual for her to pull out all the stops to keep us married (for the sake of being married)? Is it time for me to join a divorce group for support? She has joined one at her church. The original reason we separated was verbal abuse that I got tired of. Went to mc for four months without positive results. Apparently I caused her to treat me like that. ��
> 
> Thanks


First. your name. You are not useless, but you have been denigrated to the point of destruction by an abusive spouse.

To be succinct: ...emotional/mental beating-----hard time saying no-----guilt me into coming back---not LET me tell----MY GUT TELLS ME NO.

How can she be using adult children when they don't know? The example you are setting for them is critical. Don't allow her to continue to browbeat you.

1. Religious reasons--there is some guilt there, but to me, you have not had a marriage, but a dictatorship. She has you trained already. I am firm Christian, but don't let your Christian values (Catholic?) crucify you.

2. The correct divorce group may be beneficial. I do not believe you had a fair shake in MC, but I have not heard her side of the story. Just a men's group may be even more helpful.

@Mr. Nail had some good advice.

BTW: I stayed way too long in an abusive marriage because I believed my marriage commitment was to God. However, survival became the stronger issue. I think God understands and forgives. My escape with the support of my adult children was the apex of my life.


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

Lost in thought, yes she has said she is sorry, accepted responsibility for her actions. Although not wholly until I moved out. But in all this she is trying to change outwardly but the acidity still comes out, just nicer about it. I keep thinking that I’ll feel different at some time but I don’t and I seem happier without her. That is sad after 32 years.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Wait, she is not ALLOWING you to tell your adult children?? Since when is SHE in charge?? To hell with what she says, tell your kids the truth about what is going on. You are their parent too after all, and you do actually count. If she doesn't like, well tough crap, she will just have to deal. 

I get the feeling from your post that you are DONE with this woman and this marriage. And that's ok, it really is. It sounds like you have made an effort to try and deal and make things better, but it just isn't working for you. Stop letting her call the shots, and if you want to divorce her, then DO IT. It doesn't matter if she wants it or likes it or not, it can all go through with her or without her.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Stop meeting with her. If you don't, she'll continue trying to talk you into living with her again. She never believed you would actually leave so how she's doing damage control. You have no interest in R and that's your decision to make so time to move on. And tell your children.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

"Most of the time I come away from that meeting feeling like I have had an emotional and mental beating."

This alone should tell you that her abusive ways haven't stopped. She may have changed them via using kids/religion as leverage, but you STILL feel beaten up. 

"yes she has said she is sorry, accepted responsibility for her actions. Although not wholly until I moved out. But in all this she is trying to change outwardly but the acidity still comes out, just nicer about it. "

So, she may SAY things nicer, but in reality, have her actions shown you that she is improving? Do you see that the IC is helping her at all? She may be getting info on how to "win you back" instead of working on her own. Your MC sounds like a whack-a-doodle. You don't just "Oh, forget about it and continue on" If you could have done that, you already WOULD have and would not have helped you solve the problem at all.

You yourself say you are happier without her. I think YOU need to take the bull by the horns and tell your children (in a calm way) what has happened and WHY. Her telling you not to tell the kids is her way of trying to control the situation and you.


----------



## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

Stop communicating with her socially.


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

Jlg07,
You pointed out some things that I have been thinking and never have told anyone. Makes me realize that what I’m thinking is not crazy. 
Thx


----------



## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Uselessmale said:


> Lost in thought, yes she has *said* she is sorry, accepted responsibility for her actions. Although not wholly until I moved out. But in all this she is trying to change outwardly but the acidity still comes out, just nicer about it. I keep thinking that I’ll feel different at some time but I don’t and *I seem happier without her.* That is sad after 32 years.


 Then stick to your guns and keep it that way. She wants to stay married for her own selfish reasons of which you aren't one of them or even a concern. What's in it for you besides misery?

As far as what she "said" believe what you see (actions) not what you hear (words), and I think you will have a reaffirmation of your decision.


----------



## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

It sounds as though you've given her too much power, and she didn't play nice with it. But you now have a lot of power in that you're content to move on. If you know that's what you want, then do it. 

If you aren't sure yet, then try dealing w/ her as an equal. Tell her you are happy being apart, and if she doesn't change then being apart won't change. When you feel like you're getting an emotional beating, stop her and tell her what you think isn't fair about it. If you're afraid of her blowing up, you don't need to be afraid of that any more b/c she doesn't have anything you want. Some people use anger to get what they want. Once you show her anger won't get her anything, she may come around. 

If you think calling her on what drives her away from you is rude, it isn't. You're being constructive about something she claims to want. 

And remember, it is neither possible nor necessary for everyone to like everything you do.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Uselessmale said:


> We are both 55 married 32 years next month. WE have had “difficulties “ for several ye*ars. About 4 years ago she quit having anything to do with me over a couple of months period of time. She has al*ways spoken to me in an abusive manner. SHe is an only child of parents that are verbally nasty to each other. I started ic in January 2018. We started mc in February of 2018. I was the one that found the mc and made appointments. Bared my soul, and 4 months later was told by mc that there was nothing else she could do be I wasn’t trying. Had been asking w to go to ic since January but refused. When I moved out she decided to go to ic with the mc we were seeing. I was told during mc just forget the past and start new, like nothing ever happened..
> 
> I think she doesn’t want the children to know bc they would understand why I left. Even now, in their mid twenties, they will tell me something and still ask me not to “tell mom”.
> 
> I have been posting here since February and have found support from 99% of the denizens. Many of you have been where I am right now and even though I probably know what to do I sometimes need to hear it from you. Sometimes I like the advice sometimes I don’t, and sometimes I get told things I don’t want to hear but need too. The reason I asked about joining a local group is that I think I need to be around people.


The abuse is one thing.

But a sudden change in behavior that you can say “she stopped having anything to do with me”.

That really strikes a chord with me. Have you ever figured out why she suddenly decided she didn’t want anything to do with you and started treating you especially bad.
Because I’ve seen that happen before and there’s usually a reason.


----------



## Uselessmale (May 20, 2017)

@Evinrude, she quit having anything to do with me over a couple of months period and she travels a lot for work. I figured she had someone else, after a couple of months it didn’t even bother me. If someone else could make her happy, good for him, cause it seemed that I couldn’t. This came up, three years later, in mc, she said she didn’t have an affair. Seemed offended that I had even thought that of her. I told her that I had been convinced she was having one for at least two and a half years. I could never get any proof, she has a work computer that I had no access to. She uses her phone all the time for work, literally couple of thousand emails a month and I can’t even begin to track the texts. In January 2018 she started checking my iPad and phone and email account. In April she somehow found some emails that I had sent to an IC specializing in verbal abuse. I had put all this correspondence on a jump drive and thought I had cleaned out all evidence of contact with that counselor. She somehow found all the correspondence and went crazy, that I was hiding things from her. I was checking with her to see if her opinion was the same as the IC I go to see face to face. I was told the same thing by both of them, abusers never change, and that if I leave and go back the abuse would be even worse. Long answer to your question/speculation, sorry.


----------



## irish925 (May 3, 2018)

So, you got your answer than right? - "I was told the same thing by both of them, abusers never change, and that if I leave and go back the abuse would be even worse."


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Uselessmale said:


> @Evinrude, she quit having anything to do with me over a couple of months period and she travels a lot for work. I figured she had someone else, after a couple of months it didn’t even bother me. If someone else could make her happy, good for him, cause it seemed that I couldn’t. This came up, three years later, in mc, she said she didn’t have an affair. Seemed offended that I had even thought that of her. I told her that I had been convinced she was having one for at least two and a half years. I could never get any proof, she has a work computer that I had no access to. She uses her phone all the time for work, literally couple of thousand emails a month and I can’t even begin to track the texts. In January 2018 she started checking my iPad and phone and email account. In April she somehow found some emails that I had sent to an IC specializing in verbal abuse. I had put all this correspondence on a jump drive and thought I had cleaned out all evidence of contact with that counselor. She somehow found all the correspondence and went crazy, that I was hiding things from her. I was checking with her to see if her opinion was the same as the IC I go to see face to face. I was told the same thing by both of them, abusers never change, and that if I leave and go back the abuse would be even worse. Long answer to your question/speculation, sorry.


Here's a newsflash for these toxic folks.

People WILL say nice things about you if you treat them well.

Far easier to do that than to scour their computers checking to see if they're telling anyone the "truth"


----------

