# Looking for Opinions on this Situation



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Hi there,

I am looking for input regarding a disagreement I am having with my significant other (SO). We have very different opinions and need some mediation for a certain situation.

Over the past couple months, a guy who I have met 2 times via a good friend began to like and comment on every facebook post I made. Let me start by saying he has Asperger's and has never had a girlfriend, so he's a bit socially awkward as a result and doesn't really function on the same level as you and I went it comes to emotional issues, I'm sure. That aside, even though nothing inappropriate was said, my SO was becoming annoyed by the attention this person was paying me. I was a bit annoyed too just because it was a bit excessive however seeminly innocent, but I began to discourage the attention and deleted some of his comments, and he obviously got the message and stopped - my SO said I should contact him and tell him I was not interested, but my issue with that was that he never said anything to me about being interested, just liked my photos and made comments related to my posts. I never talked with him and we have no relationship other than mere aquaintances that share some mutual friends.

That being said, I am going on a trip overseas for an educational program in about 2 weeks with a group of friends. One of our mutual friends thought this person might enjoy going, and invited him (it's a public event). He decided to go. So now my SO is up in arms that I am going to be going on a trip oversees without him and now this person is going to be attending. He has basically said I cannot stand next to this person in any pictures and if I did I don't care about him or our relationship. To have him look at photos with me near him would be hurtful, and if a photo is taken and he gets next to me that I should move immediately away no matter the cirumstance. He says that it is a realistic request and I should respect his wishes, and said it will make or break our relationship if I do or don't comply with this. We have very different views of this and it's causing a lot of disagreement.

Your thoughts?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

It's up to you to decide which is more important. Your SO's feelings or this relative stranger that somehow became your friend on facebook.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

So one wouldn't see asking someone not to stand next to another person where there is surely nothing going on as being excessively jealous or possessive/controlling? Trying to find the point where it becomes more than just someone's feelings but lapsing into inappropriate behavior.

To me, I don't care about this person at all and don't even know them. So I guess I expect my SO to not be near as worried and to trust me and my handling of all situations. That telling me I can't stand next to someone is a bit overstepping of boundaries.


----------



## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

What comes next? No boy-girl-boy-girl seating at dinners with friends? Pre-screening of all Facebook connections? Force field around your car?

I think he's overreaching here, assuming that you have given NO indication of any interest in the guy.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Is this person your friend on facebook?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> So one wouldn't see asking someone not to stand next to another person where there is surely nothing going on as being excessively jealous or possessive/controlling? Trying to find the point where it becomes more than just someone's feelings but lapsing into inappropriate behavior.
> 
> To me, I don't care about this person at all and don't even know them. So I guess I expect my SO to not be near as worried and to trust me and my handling of all situations. That telling me I can't stand next to someone is a bit overstepping of boundaries.


He is setting a boundary. There is a difference between that and controlling, and far too often people throw out the word "controlling" as a way to shame and guilt the other person when they don't get what they want.

Controlling would be your SO telling you that you couldn't go, and cancelling your tickets/reservations, taking your debit/ credit card, things like that.

If I was going on a trip, and my wife asked me not to hang around a woman who was a sort of acquaintance on facebook, it would be a no brainer for me. Her feelings mean far more to me than those of a relative stranger, and I'd honor her feelings without question.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> He is setting a boundary. There is a difference between that and controlling, and far too often people throw out the word "controlling" as a way to shame and guilt the other person when they don't get what they want.
> 
> Controlling would be your SO telling you that you couldn't go, and cancelling your tickets/reservations, taking your debit/ credit card, things like that.
> 
> If I was going on a trip, and my wife asked me not to hang around a woman who was a sort of acquaintance on facebook, it would be a no brainer for me. Her feelings mean far more to me than those of a relative stranger, and I'd honor her feelings without question.


See this is his point of view and my point of view is the one of Chris' above. So interesting that its divided exactly like he and I are. I am worried it's setting a dangerous precedent and shows inappropriate jealousy and possessiveness, to tell me I can't stand next to someone. I have shown zero interest and have zero interest in this person. We only have issues when another person even comes near me... I am glad he cares but I think it is overreaching my boundaries too and I feel violated and restricted - but I realize jealousy is a very strong emotion and causes emotional pain and stress. So I feel like he is overly jealous and it is not my job to placate that jealousy and he needs to get a handle on it. It makes me feel like now I can't enjoy my trip because if any photo gets posted on Facebook of me too close to this guy then there will be hell to pay.

So he feels hurt by my being anywhere near this person who seems harmless and fine, and I feel hurt that he is giving me these restrictions or else basically. Who is "right?" Lol. Is there a happy medium here? This is not our first jealousy rodeo, either. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

I would end a relationship with somebody who told me they'd dump me if I was photographed with somebody.

If I'm not trusted to keep my relationships with others appropriate,, I'm not trusted period. 

No interest in dating somebody who doesn't trust me. Never know when it might rear it's ugly little head.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Garrett (Sep 6, 2014)

I have Asperger's. We may be socially awkward, but a lot of us know exactly what we are doing!

In fact, a lot of us are extremely intelligent and are seven steps ahead of those that do not have Asperger's.

I say this, because you make it sound like this guy with Asperger's is harmless, and your SO should see it that way as well.

I am here to tell you that I do not believe that is true. I am NOT saying this this guy has an agenda, but he might.....and why is your SO wrong for thinking that may be the situation?


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Garrett said:


> I have Asperger's. We may be socially awkward, but a lot of us know exactly what we are doing!
> 
> In fact, a lot of us are extremely intelligent and are seven steps ahead of those that do not have Asperger's.
> 
> ...


This person is super nice and a seemingly good guy but I am just not interested plus in a relationship... But in the event this person did have an interest in me, the attention has stopped fully now because I tried kindly to get the message across that I didn't like it. I am a very kind person and so I was trying to be a nice as possible. Even if this person did like me so to speak, I feel like the bottom line is he doesn't trust me to handle it and keep it appropriate and so he has to try and control it for me by telling me I can't get near this person. He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention. That to me screams pure jealousy and am I required to change my harmless and natural behavior in that case? Just trying to understand if I am "wrong". My ex husband wouldn't have given it a second thought. He trusted me implicitly and it was a great feeling. Now not so much. So this is all new to me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Even if the guy does have an agenda. That is not what is in question. What it's about is does SO trust her .... or not??? IF 20 people around me have an agenda....and they are NOT on my agenda.... who cares?


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I am looking for input regarding a disagreement I am having with my significant other (SO). We have very different opinions and need some mediation for a certain situation.
> 
> ...


This is on the borderline.

On the one hand, you did discourage this person and back him off on facebook. That seems to have worked. I agree that it would have been going a bit too far to tell him you weren't interested if he had never actually said he was.

However, he almost certainly was and is interested. If you don't believe that he is interested, your SO may think that you are being naïve (which you would be if you don't realize that).

However, you can't really control whether or not the guy shows up in a picture next to you and jumping out of the way if he tries to would create a scene. But, he may very well be following you around like a lost puppy.

I'd tell your SO that you understand his concerns even if though you find them a bit extreme. Assure him that you are aware the guy may be interested in you. That you will do your best to avoid being near him and that you will clearly tell him to back off if he gets too forward.


----------



## Buddy400 (Aug 30, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention.


That's a problem.


----------



## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

You need to look at it from your husbands point of view. If I had a dollar for every time an affair started with "look at the problems with this guy. Nobody would ever date him/her. No way I would date him/her". That is said EVERY TIME an affair starts. You know what your intentions are. HE does not. And how often does the toxic girlfriend egg on the affair?

Is he a good looking guy? Your new boyfriend, I mean. Not the husband.


----------



## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I am looking for input regarding a disagreement I am having with my significant other (SO). We have very different opinions and need some mediation for a certain situation.
> 
> ...


Is this case I say have respect for your SO and comply. It may be innocent to you, but it isn't to this other guy and that's you need to know. You seem to wan to play with fire. I suggest you not.


----------



## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

1. it is not about weather you are interested in the other guy.

2. It is about the other guy possibly being interested in you.

Guys can sense these things, just like women can sense when another woman is after her man, you just know. Would you want your man going on a trip in a group where there was a woman you felt was after him? Of course not. He didn't ask you not to go, just keep some distance between the two of you. Aspergers or not, you don't know him.

3. Everyone has their own deal breakers. There is no right or wrong, it is solely individual. You need to decide if this is a deal breaker for you. If not, then oblige your man.

I appreciate Garrett in his personal disclosure. I know a little about Aspergers too. Maybe this guy likes everyone's posts, maybe he is hyper-focussed on facebook, maybe he likes you and this was his way of seeing if you liked him too. Unless you knew him better, you don't know.

Just because he has Aspergers, don't assume he is safe, and just because he is a man, don't assume he is not safe. You should take persuasions and be sensible.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

You two are just not compatible in my book.

There will be many more arguments like these popping up. You both have completely different views and unfortunately, one of you have to give.

I am currently with a girl who gets hit on a lot. It doesn't bother me. I love the attention she gets because it feeds to my man ego for some sick reason. But at the end of the day, if a person is going to cheat, they are going to cheat. There is no sense in crying about it or making childish remarks such as "you cannot take a photo with so and so." If he had his arm around your waist and you had a big ol' smile on your face, that could make someone paranoid but that doesn't seem like the issue.

And for people saying 'her guy senses that the other guy wants her.' Please, just about EVERY GUY WHO IS SINGLE that makes eye contact with a girl WANTS HER. Get over it. Tell your SO to man the f*ck up and stop acting like a vag*na. And then leave, because this is the first of many more to come. It is not worth living your life with ridiculous restrictions.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> See this is his point of view and my point of view is the one of Chris' above. So interesting that its divided exactly like he and I are. I am worried it's setting a dangerous precedent and shows inappropriate jealousy and possessiveness, to tell me I can't stand next to someone. I have shown zero interest and have zero interest in this person. *We only have issues when another person even comes near me... I am glad he cares but I think it is overreaching my boundaries too and I feel violated and restricted* - but I realize jealousy is a very strong emotion and causes emotional pain and stress. So I feel like he is overly jealous and it is not my job to placate that jealousy and he needs to get a handle on it. It makes me feel like now I can't enjoy my trip because if any photo gets posted on Facebook of me too close to this guy then there will be hell to pay.
> 
> So he feels hurt by my being anywhere near this person who seems harmless and fine, and I feel hurt that he is giving me these restrictions or else basically. Who is "right?" Lol. Is there a happy medium here? This is not our first jealousy rodeo, either.


So this is not the first time that he's reacted in a jealous manner. Could you tell us about some of the other times.

I'm on the fence about this current situation. If you had tried to hide that guy being a friend on Facebook, snuck around sending secret messages/text I could see his reaction.

Given that this was all in the open and you put a stop to his attention, I side with you on it.

Then there is the issue of paying attention to your SO's feelings. 

But telling someone that they cannot stand next to a person in a picture? Silly.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> This person is super nice and a seemingly good guy but I am just not interested plus in a relationship... But in the event this person did have an interest in me, the attention has stopped fully now because I tried kindly to get the message across that I didn't like it. I am a very kind person and so I was trying to be a nice as possible. Even if this person did like me so to speak, I feel like the bottom line is he doesn't trust me to handle it and keep it appropriate and so he has to try and control it for me by telling me I can't get near this person. *He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention. * That to me screams pure jealousy and am I required to change my harmless and natural behavior in that case? Just trying to understand if I am "wrong". My ex husband wouldn't have given it a second thought. He trusted me implicitly and it was a great feeling. Now not so much. So this is all new to me.


This is a HUGE red flag.

Do you have female friends? How does he act about you spending time with them?

Is our family around? How does he act about you spending time with them?


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I think the base problem is he is very insecure. That seems to drive everything - so I am still in the stages of trying to figure out if this will work. He didn't used to be really like this, and once we got more involved, it started coming up.

I'm from the school of thought like someone else where if someone was interested in HIM I would take it as a complement, not a threat, because I would trust him not to engage in that person. I don't think he has that same view and the insecurity brings up all this jealousy which then is slammed onto me, when I have done literally nothing. I'm trying to figure out like someone else said if we are truly compatible or is this going to make me miserable. I personally think being paranoid and insecure to the point that you have to request me not to stand near someone is a bit on the psycho side... I guess I am far more secure and trusting. It seems like he does not trust me or give me the liberty to handle situations in my own way, but requires me to do what he wants to satisfy himself - which indicates no trust. I think it's not so much me having given him a reason to distrust me but his basic insecurity just makes him that way? 

He agrees that it is because he thinks this guy is interested in me, not that I have shown any interest in him. I wants me to be far more aggressive in "getting rid" of him than is natural for my personality and beliefs. I HAVE "gotten rid" of him now (though we will be on the trip together, however that worries me not because he has no influence or meaning to me), but my SO does not like that I didn't just tell him to F off and was a bit more benevolent about it. However, the end result is the same... he got the message.

My SO doesn't have any issue with me spending time out with my girlfriends. That would definitely be a deal breaker. It just seems to be any time there is another man around or potentially there. I agree there are red flags and have been in other incidents only just not sure if it is something to work on or slowly realize it's always going to be a problem. We both have to give I think and neither one wants to or feels comfortable compromising a belief, which is understandable...


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Why was the other guy your friend on facebook?

How often do you go out with your girlfriends in mixed company without your boyfriend?


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Interesting how you are getting differing responses from different people (men vs. women) on here (with the exception of sir wise.)

I agree that this man may or may not be "harmless." But YOU are not interested, therefore you see no issue. Your BF DOES see an issue, but I"m not sure he's going about it the correct way. I think the way you handled the FB "likes" and "comments" was absolutely correct. You cannot control what others choose to do, but you can control your reactions to it. 

Personally (being a "nice gal" myself) I would unfriend him on FB for starters. Blocking him would be a plus. If you don't really know the guy, no hurt feelings, yes? I have male friends on my FB, but my BF doens't have any issues with them. 

Just yesterday I received probing texts from an old friend who got shot down pretty quick. But I knew the guy well. I didn't even mention it to my BF because I didn't see the point, but he wouldn't make a big deal out of it. In fact, he has hinted around in the past that he prefers I DON'T tell him about these things, because when I have mentioned getting hit on or whatever, he feels like I am trying to make him jealous. So I just don't even bring it up anymore.

As far as your BF's behavior about the pictures (and other past occurances) I would just throw it out there that you understand his feelings, you value his feelings, and you will make attempts to stay away from the guy. But you can't control HIS actions....i.e. him jumping in next to you in a picture. Surely if the group is posing, you can pose your cute lil self on the other side of the group, away from this dude?


----------



## JustHer (Mar 12, 2013)

wise said:


> And for people saying 'her guy senses that the other guy wants her.' Please, just about EVERY GUY WHO IS SINGLE that makes eye contact with a girl WANTS HER. Get over it. Tell your SO to man the f*ck up and stop acting like a vag*na. And then leave, because this is the first of many more to come. It is not worth living your life with ridiculous restrictions.


Thank you for reminding me why I quit coming to this web site (my mistake for trying it again). The rude, vulgar comments are unnecessary, but unfortunately all too common here.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I am just trying to make sure that I am not setting a dangerous precendent by rewarding what is perhaps inappropriate jealousy. 

Or am I wrong and he is completely founded, and I should avoid this person like the plague? My ex was so trusting and non jealous that I can't quite figure out where the line is. I guess I feel like I am in control of me, and don't care what this person things or does because he is not even on my radar. Like GA HEART said, I am just controlling my response, which will be absolutely nothing.

This other guy I met through a married best girl friend who has become good friends with him due to hobbies she does where he participates, too. I met him at a birthday party for one of her kids as she invited him. He sent me a friend request on FB upon my friend's suggestion because we all share similar hobbies. He and her go to Busch Gardens together with the kids and her husband stays home; I guess her hubby doesn't see this person as a threat at all I suppose nor do I... so I have no relationship with him other than meeting him two times when my friend had invited him. So, my friend has really actually driven the contact.

I just feel distrusted and it hurts my feelings I suppose is the issue. I feel I am mature and strong and can handle it all myself. I'm not going to let someone weasel their way into my relationship - but I feel like I am not trusted to ensure that fact and that he has to come in and make my boundaries and decisions for me. And I don't like that. I feel violated and distrusted, but there has been no reason for him to think anything is going on (which it's certainly not) and he says so. Just that he does not trust this guy's intentions. My argument is I don't care what they are, he can't do anything to me that I don't allow...

I have said I will try my absolute best to not be near him in any photo but I don't want there to be hell to pay if somehow a candid catches me walking in his vicinity (it's a smallish group of people) and I don't want to be terrfied the whole trip about staying away from him to avoid the wrath if a such a picture gets posted.

I think my main complaint is I HATE FACEBOOK. lol Without it there would be none of these problems!! I have a business that I promote using it or else I would delete it, I swear.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

Would you describe yourself as a somewhat stubborn person? Are you ever contrary just for the sake of being contrary?


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Exactly that. YOU are in control of you.

I trust my SOs to fend off the advances of other males.

More to the point, look what his demands have done. You're here, upset and questioning if he's 'the one'. 

Cheaters will cheat sooner or later anyway. There are a lot of them around. 

What I don't wanna do is plant seeds of doubt in the head of a keeper so that she turns to somebody else.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> I am just trying to make sure that I am not setting a dangerous precendent by rewarding what is perhaps inappropriate jealousy.
> 
> Or am I wrong and he is completely founded, and I should avoid this person like the plague? My ex was so trusting and non jealous that I can't quite figure out where the line is. I guess I feel like I am in control of me, and don't care what this person things or does because he is not even on my radar. Like GA HEART said, I am just controlling my response, which will be absolutely nothing.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you have strong boundaries, and the issues lie with your bf.

Did something happen to him in his past?

Perhaps you should try a conversation that states your emotions and feelings.

"Honey, I feel as if you don't trust me, and the result of that distrust, hurts. I want to understand you better, so we can resolve this conflict. I am sure if you help me understand your concern, I will try and understand your viewpoint. I, in return will assure you that I will have my boundaries in place. I want you to see my viewpoint too."

Hold his hands and look into his eyes as you are talking, it creates intimacy, and the expressions of emotions will help get your message across.

I think there is something underlying his concerns, and it probably has to do with his past or experiences.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I think I can be stubborn, yes. He claims that. I'm "stubborn" and he's "overly jealous"... 

But also don't want to compromise something I feel strongly about. Is that being stubborn? Like if someone can't talk you into robbing a bank, you're stubborn?  I don't know how to tell if I am being overly stubborn I suppose? I would never argue just to aruge. In fact, I hate it.


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

I think Mr. Fisty's response is dead on. You need to validate his feelings, but he needs to validate YOURS too. I don't see how anyone (witout serious emotional issues) could argue with what he wrote on how you could handle it.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

'Stubborn' carries negative connotations.

As somebody supporting your guy said, he's 'setting a boundary'. Not a boundary I'd set, but I'm not him.

He's being 'stubborn' by sticking to his boundary. Much as I disagree with it, having such boundaries are a good thing in a prospective partner cuz you know where you stand.

Currently, you're NOT being 'stubborn' cuz you're here enquiring about where to set your boundary and/or how flexible it should be.

You weigh the pros n cons and decide. Boundaries are good things for your own life and those who meet you. They can be fixed or flexible but they need to be there. Then you live your life by what works for you,, not what works for other people.

You have to be 'stubborn' about them, otherwise you're just weak and destined to be somebody elses doormat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> I think I can be stubborn, yes. He claims that. I'm "stubborn" and he's "overly jealous"...
> 
> *But also don't want to compromise something I feel strongly about*. Is that being stubborn? Like if someone can't talk you into robbing a bank, you're stubborn?  I don't know how to tell if I am being overly stubborn I suppose? I would never argue just to aruge. In fact, I hate it.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Just make sure that you fully understand your motivations before picking this hill to die on.

Just a gut feeling here, but I can see it happening that a picture would "accidentally" be taken of you and your facebook "friend", and at least a small part of you would be happy about it. I see this as a power struggle, with you digging in your heels deeper and deeper in response to your boyfriend. 

Ultimately, since you claim this other guy means absolutely nothing, you are left arguing a principle. It would be absolutely no big deal either way to you if the guy was even there, let alone in pictures with you. From what you have said, your boyfriend isn't generally the jealous type to the point of demanding you have no contact with any other guys.

The real question you have to answer for yourself...is this important enough to you to hold your ground, to set the precedent, to send the message to your boyfriend, that your principle means more to you than his feelings.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

As someone who used to think that men and women can be friends, I have been burnt when I have been on either side of the equation.

One concern that I have in general with people who have poor boundaries, is when are they going to misinterpret the relationship to their advantage. This guy could sometime get impatient and then accuse you for leading him on. Given the web of relationships that you and this guy have, that could become very uncomfortable.

One thing that I have noticed about savvy people -- the ones who seem not to have any social problems -- is that they shut down inappropriate behavior immediately. The last thing you want is for people to wonder if your FB friend is actually your boyfriend.

also remember that photos go viral and they have a life of their own. I've joined a couple of social groups that ask specifically if they may use photos of us on their website and literature. Well, Facebook is most people's website.

I would say have a think about this. There are times when standing on principle is very counterproductive. And also ask yourself how would you feel if your boyfriend insisted that some prolific(with the likes and cheeky insider comments) FB (female) friend of his is simply harmless,now excuse me, I'll be taking 3 week trip with her and without you.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I really appreciate everyone's input here. I have been using some of the ideas here to talk with my SO about it. It does seem to be helping. I have realized now that neither of our viewpoints is "wrong", just different. And to "give in" on either of our sides feels uncomfortable because we have strong beliefs and both perhaps a bit stubborn and strong willed. 

As far as the trip goes, it was only me, my best girl friend (who is now good friends with this person) and another older woman going to join a larger group in Europe for a tour of sorts. The trip is roughly 7 days long including travel. So, it's not an extended period of time. My best friend invited this person to come along as they share interest in the topic. None of it was my doing, wishes, or under my control (it's a public course). My SO doesn't want to go - not his area of interest - nor can afford to go, even though it would be totally fine if he did go, and I have told him that.

I am also no longer friends with this person on FB, so he can no longer like or post to my comments. He never said or did anything that was truly invasive or obvious, but it was annoying to me and making my SO uncomfortable and yes, I don't want the wrong idea being passed around, even though I know for a fact there is nothing happening. Appearances are everything I suppose.

I have tried to assure my SO that I will do my very best to stay out of chummy photos with this person and to try to set the tone early on that I am not interested and not to follow me around or hang on me. I am sure being a nice/kind person, I don't want to hurt people's feelings, so I don't set boundaries as quickly and that causes problems perhaps that might be avoided sooner. I am also a bit naive and tend to see the best in people (disregarding the warnings so to speak). I have realized through the replies that my boundaries are somewhat more spacious than his, and that is just purely our natures. I am trying to get us to embrace our differences instead of turning them into tools for warfare.

If the roles were reversed, I am sure I would not be thrilled that a person interested in him was going on a trip, but I would also have to trust that he would keep this person at bay and be clear about the boundaries. I would not freak out however if she was standing beside him in a simple photo. If they were embracing or arms around each other that might be a bit more concerning, but I don't have the same amount of insecurity/jealousy in me. I would be like, good luck chick 

Thank you and keep the suggestions coming. It's really helping!!! If anything, it's helping me understand myself more as well as him, and helps me to see the road ahead a bit better.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> As far as the trip goes, it was only me, my best girl friend (who is now good friends with this person) and another older woman going to join a larger group in Europe for a tour of sorts. The trip is roughly 7 days long including travel. So, it's not an extended period of time. *My best friend invited this person to come along as they share interest in the topic. *None of it was my doing, wishes, or under my control (it's a public course). My SO doesn't want to go - not his area of interest - nor can afford to go, even though it would be totally fine if he did go, and I have told him that.


I met my boyfriend in grad school on the beach in Cancun. It was a trip that a couple students planned for that holiday. I knew his friend and told him that I was going in passing as I saw him on campus. He told my (ex) bf that I was going (because he had seen me on campus and told his friend that he wanted to meet me). 

IOW, this guy taking the trip may be doing just to spend time around you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> From what you have said, your boyfriend isn't generally the jealous type to the point of demanding you have no contact with any other guys.


I'm not sure that this is true. Fadedsmile made the two following statements. They seem like extreme jealousy to me.



fadedsmile said:


> We only have issues when another person even comes near me...





fadedsmile said:


> He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fadedsmile,

Could you please explain your two statements below? And can you give us examples of times when your bf has done/said these things.



fadedsmile said:


> We only have issues when another person even comes near me...





fadedsmile said:


> He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I would hope that this guy is not just going on the trip to be near me (I hardly know him) - it's quite an expense to go to Europe just to be around a girl... but who knows! He is into the same hobby so I guess my friend thought he might be interested so that's why she invited him.

Ummmm, hmmmmm... Once, I got a private message on FB from my chiropractor about an appointment change (I was referred to this person by a long time mutual friend so there was a friend element involved and hence why I was friends on FB). Just had some friendly, seemingly harmless small talk and that was it. My SO saw this when I was using my phone and flipped out, saying that it was inappropriate to even talk to him outside of a professional setting. That I should only be calling with receptionist about appointments and he should not be contacting me this way. This to me was a show of jealousy, because to me there was no threat and he could plainly read our harmless conversation. (Facebook cases me more dang drama.)

Once he got mad because I was going to Christmas party and I had said I was going to look for a nice top and some slacks. I realized while shopping that a top and pants were more than just buying a dress (I don't dress up often) and so I just bought a dress. I was excited to tell him about the dress and he went bonkers, didn't like that I was going to be wearing a dress ??? 

There are more examples than that, but those are why I think he overreacts and asks more than he should because of his own insecurity, when I am not doing anything wrong. When I fight back, he accuses me of not caring about his feelings, when I am standing up for my right to just function as a human being (talk to other people and wear what I want...). He won't say I CAN'T, but causes severe drama and fights when I don't comply. It's gotten better because I have basically said I won't put up with it... but still, that I probably why I don't want to cow-tow to his requests sometimes because I feel it sets a precedent where he thinks he can control.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> I would hope that this guy is not just going on the trip to be near me (I hardly know him) - it's quite an expense to go to Europe just to be around a girl... but who knows! He is into the same hobby so I guess my friend thought he might be interested so that's why she invited him.
> 
> Ummmm, hmmmmm... Once, I got a private message on FB from my chiropractor about an appointment change (I was referred to this person by a long time mutual friend so there was a friend element involved and hence why I was friends on FB). Just had some friendly, seemingly harmless small talk and that was it. My SO saw this when I was using my phone and flipped out, saying that it was inappropriate to even talk to him outside of a professional setting. That I should only be calling with receptionist about appointments and he should not be contacting me this way. This to me was a show of jealousy, because to me there was no threat and he could plainly read our harmless conversation. (Facebook cases me more dang drama.)


I'm just going to play a bit of devils advocate here. You seem to keep "friends" on facebook that really aren't "friends". What is the purpose of friending them? You said that the only reason you are even on facebook is because of your business. Are these other personal facebook things you talk about conducted through your business page, or do you have a separate personal page? If you have a personal, non business related page, why is that, if you really don't even want to be on it?

On the surface, I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with what you say here about your chiropractor, but I do think that it is strange that he would be crossing the line between professional and personal with a potential client. What you described there is not normal.



> Once he got mad because I was going to Christmas party and I had said I was going to look for a nice top and some slacks. I realized while shopping that a top and pants were more than just buying a dress (I don't dress up often) and so I just bought a dress. I was excited to tell him about the dress and he went bonkers, didn't like that I was going to be wearing a dress ???


So you don't dress up very often. Why not? Was your boyfriend going to be attending the party with you? Have you ever gone out and bought a nice new dress for an event you would be attending with him?



> There are more examples than that, but those are why I think he overreacts and asks more than he should because of his own insecurity, when I am not doing anything wrong. When I fight back, he accuses me of not caring about his feelings, when I am standing up for my right to just function as a human being (talk to other people and wear what I want...). He won't say I CAN'T, but causes severe drama and fights when I don't comply. It's gotten better because I have basically said I won't put up with it... but still, that I probably why I don't want to cow-tow to his requests sometimes because I feel it sets a precedent where he thinks he can control.


I have a feeling that you are over emphasizing his reactions to these things. How old are you two anyway>

I'm not saying you are doing anything wrong here, because I don't think you are. It just seems to me that you and your boyfriend have different views on interpersonal relationships with the opposite sex.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

That's it totally - we have very different views on opposite sex relationships. 

I have about 3,000 friends on FB due to my business, so yes the personal and professional mix unfortunately sometimes. But it's been that way so long, I don't plan on trying to get people to follow my business page because I'm afraid they won't and I'll lose clients. I guess my definition of "friend" is more rangey? They are mostly all acquaintances really, and rarely talk to them unless there is business to attend to.

I am 36 and he is 39. Both have ex's who were 180 degrees different than ourselves but in most ways that is a good thing. 

I am very much into cars and grew up with many, many guy friends. I have no trouble keeping relationships to a strict friend level. In fact, I probably had more guy friends than girl friends growing up - was a tomboy, into cars and racing, etc, so it was just natural. His ex had very few friends and NEVER talked to other men hardly, so I think this is a real shock to his system. I see nothing wrong with being able to talk casually to people of the opposite sex as long as things are kept appropriate and infrequent. He has been pretty good about my long time guy friends and I don't hide anything about them because I don't need to.

I'm actually not overdoing his reactions, he can be quite emotionally abusive in the past when he gets his feelings hurt and we have worked on that. Meaning, I have walked out and stayed out because of it. So, our relationship definitely has its baggage and hot points. Most of which is other men talking to me and so forth. He has exhibited so very textbook jealous behaviors that are borderline scary and so I am working to build his security so hopefully that will stop. We're kind of at the make or break point right now so this trip is testing the limits. What's no big deal to me is a huge deal to him so we have that rift in opinion that works against us a lot.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I don't think that the two of you are compatible. He does seem to be overly jealous and you are already having a hard time living with it.



fadedsmile said:


> I'm actually not overdoing his reactions, he can be quite emotionally abusive in the past when he gets his feelings hurt and we have worked on that. Meaning, I have walked out and stayed out because of it. So, our relationship definitely has its baggage and hot points. Most of which is other men talking to me and so forth. He has exhibited so very textbook jealous behaviors that are borderline scary and so I am working to build his security so hopefully that will stop.


It sounds like you are trying to make him into the guy you want him to be. You’ve been doing it by leaving for a while and by threats of leaving. This will not work. It will not make him feel more secure. Mostly likely he’s just an insecure, jealous person. What you see is what you get. Can you live with the worst things you see in him? It’s only going to get worse with time.



fadedsmile said:


> We're kind of at the make or break point right now so this trip is testing the limits. What's no big deal to me is a huge deal to him so we have that rift in opinion that works against us a lot.


Are you ready to give up all contact with all males, even for your business?


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> Over the past couple months, a guy who I have met 2 times via a good friend began to like and comment on every facebook post I made. Let me start by saying he has Asperger's and has never had a girlfriend, so he's a bit socially awkward as a result and doesn't really function on the same level as you and I went it comes to emotional issues, I'm sure. That aside, even though nothing inappropriate was said, my SO was becoming annoyed by the attention this person was paying me. I was a bit annoyed too just because it was a bit excessive however seeminly innocent,


 Make no mistake about it. Men with Asperger’s are still men. If this guy focus enough attention on you that were annoyed by it, then odds are strong that he is interested in you. The fact that your girlfriend considers him such a close friend that she spends so much time with him means that his Asperger's is not so bad that he is undesirable to be with. With this in mind, if not you, then some other perfectly normal woman will probably eventually marry him. Thus your boyfriend is not crazy to think of this guy as a possible threat to your relationship. 



fadedsmile said:


> He sent me a friend request on FB upon my friend's suggestion because we all share similar hobbies. He and her go to Busch Gardens together with the kids and her husband stays home; I guess her hubby doesn't see this person as a threat at all I suppose nor do I... so I have no relationship with him other than meeting him two times when my friend had invited him. So, my friend has really actually driven the contact.





fadedsmile said:


> As far as the trip goes, it was only me, my best girl friend (who is now good friends with this person) and another older woman going to join a larger group in Europe for a tour of sorts. The trip is roughly 7 days long including travel. So, it's not an extended period of time. My best friend invited this person to come along as they share interest in the topic.


 First, your friend and her husband have opposite sex friend (OSF) boundaries that are unusually open to OSF; most couples would not be comfortable with this. I am not saying that they are wrong, but just letting you know that most men would not be comfortable with their wives going without them on dates with their OSF to Busch Gardens and on one week trips to Europe. Your friend is influencing you into thinking that this is common when it is not, and that your SO is unreasonably jealous to be concerned, when in fact he is the one that has views on this that are more common. The fact is that on such trips, the smaller subgroups spend most of their time to together, thus the 4 of you are basically going on a one week trip together, were all of you will be spending a great deal of time dining and sightseeing together. With it just being the 4 of you, I am not sure if I am more amazed that the only thing that your SO has asked of you, is to not stand next to this OM in photos, or that you that you are so uncaring of his feelings that even this is too much for you. BTW, since you do not understand your SO feeling on the photos, let me explain. Your SO does not want his friends and family that see photos of this trip asking him in private “who is that guy that is standing next to her?” You and your friend may be OK with OSF going on out of town trips together, but enough people that he cares about may not. I think that he has really tried his best to compromise on this, but you do not want to give him even an inch.

Second, your girlfriend is a very close friend of this other man (OM), much closer for sure than to your SO. Her loyalty is to you and the OM, more than it is to your SO. Based on what you have said, it sounds to me like she may have “driven the contact” of the OM and you because she may be working on the OM’s behalf as his friend to set you up with the OM. Your friend has now developed this situation such that you are now saying things like you “feel violated and restricted” by your SO, and that you are now saying about your relationship with your SO that you are “in the stages of trying to figure out if this will work”. From your SO point of view, your friend does not sound like a friend of your relationship with your SO. In fact you SO may not be out of line to consider your friend a “toxic friend” that has been encouraging this situation with the OM.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Are you ready to give up all contact with all males, even for your business?


 Let me get this straight. The other man (OM) showed such a high interest in the OP that even the OP thought that it was too much and decided to make him back off. The OP is now spending one week on trip where she and this same OM will be part of a group of 4 friends going on this trip, such that the OM will now have a chance to spend a great deal of time getting to know the OP in a fun environment without the distraction of the OP's SO. With all this in mind, you feel that the OP's SO's request of not wanting to have to explain to others who that guy is that is standing next to his girlfriend in the photos, qualifies as being the same as him asking her "to give up all contact with all males, even for your business?" I am sorry but that is a ridiculous stretch.

As an aside. After being briefly introduced to my wife I decided that I was very interested in her. Without her knowing this was why I was going, I went on a one week church trip that she was going on just to try to get to know her better. I did this even though I was not a member of her church. Fortunately I had another friend going, so I could use him as cover for me going. The guy that she was seeing in a non-exclusive relationship did not go. By the end of the week we were a couple, and the other guy was shut out.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TRy said:


> Let me get this straight. The other man (OM) showed such a high interest in the OP that even the OP thought that it was too much and decided to make him back off. The OP is now spending one week on trip where she and this same OM will be part of a group of 4 friends going on this trip, such that the OM will now have a chance to spend a great deal of time getting to know the OP in a fun environment without the distraction of the OP's SO. With all this in mind, you feel that the OP's SO's request of not wanting to have to explain to others who that guy is that is standing next to his girlfriend in the photos, qualifies as being the same as him asking her "to give up all contact with all males, even for your business?" I am sorry but that is a ridiculous stretch.
> 
> As an aside. After being briefly introduced to my wife I decided that I was very interested in her. Without her knowing this was why I was going, I went on a one week church trip that she was going on just to try to get to know her better. I did this even though I was not a member of her church. Fortunately I had another friend going, so I could use him as cover for me going. The guy that she was seeing in a non-exclusive relationship did not go. By the end of the week we were a couple, and the other guy was shut out.


I'm looking at the bigger picture. She has told us more about your relationship & her boyfriend than just this incident with some guy liking and commenting on her Facebook and him now being upset about the guy going on the trip. Here are the other things she had told us that make me concerned:


he can be quite emotionally abusive in the past
He has exhibited so very textbook jealous behaviors that are borderline scary
We only have issues when another person even comes near me...
He said he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I'm looking at the bigger picture. She has told us more about your relationship & her boyfriend than just this incident with some guy liking and commenting on her Facebook and him now being upset about the guy going on the trip. Here are the other things she had told us that make me concerned:
> 
> 
> he can be quite emotionally abusive in the past
> ...


 You are not looking at the "the bigger picture". For you to do that you would have to have the whole picture which you do not. You are hearing only her side of things, where she gets to put her spin on things. It may sound very different coming from him. For example where she says "he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention", he might have told us that "she laughed and encouraged another man that was hitting on her, and talking her up at the party, and pretty much ignored me all night for him". I am not saying that the OP is in an emotional affair (EA), but would like to point out is that just because cheaters in an EA claim that their spouses are jealous and controlling, does not mean that the spouses are.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> It may sound very different coming from him. For example where she says "he also doesn't like anyone making me laugh or getting my time and attention", he might have told us that "she laughed and encouraged another man that was hitting on her, and talking her up at the party, and pretty much ignored me all night for him".


I agree with Try on this one. I have noticed when someone is taking a conflicting position, they describe things in a very exaggerated way, choosing on their own what to minimize and what to maximize.

For example, when my mother wants to do her routine about she spent "all this money" on my education, she can't remember any scholarship that I was awarded; her latest schictk is to suggest that I attended a university that I only applied to.

So if you heard it from my mother, you would assume that my parents helped no one else financially through university, neither siblings or cousins. And that I contributed nothing to defray the cost. And also let's be clear about the fact that my parents income closed me out of needs based scholarships, but that of course, would be giving me way too much credit. There are indeed several sides to a story.

If it's really that awful for fadedsmile, then maybe we should switch into the high gear "why are you staying with this guy anyway" routine. 

I do have to say that TRy explains it very well.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I guess bottom line to me is that if I am not interested, I am not interested. And yes, everyone's boundaries are different. I was married for 12 years - together 17 - to a guy who was so trusting that he never questioned me, any other person or anything, because he knew I was that trustworthy and I would handle any relationship threats that occurred. I had lunch with male friends with never any issue. And I protected our relationship without fail (he didn't it turns out, but that's another story haha). However, this new person is 180 degrees different so I guess I am having a hard time adjusting and the demands seem unreasonable sometimes, yes, because of past behavior (he has threatened me not with bodily harm but in general, punched walls, been verbally abusive, etc - so yes, I am not over exaggerating) and I don't want to encourage his thinking that I am going to submit to being controlled, etc.

So, this is all helping me to understand what is normal and what is not. Maybe the relationship I had for 17 years was not normal, but it sure was nice in that way. Total trust, opennness, etc. So to not feel trusted when I am doing nothing (I literally DO NOT know this person, spend any time with them, nor talk to them) hurts my feelings. Saying "you can't stand next to this person" just doesn't resonate well with my gut I guess. 

On this trip we will be meeting a larger group, a total of probably 12-15, so it will not just be us four. I plan to make it very clear I have no interest and I have also told my friend who does seem to have lax boundaries that I am NOT interested and he was annoying me (he is no longer a friend on FB). Heck, without Facebook none of this would have ever happened because I don't see him in real life unless she invites him around which has been twice in several months. There is no possible way I am in an EA with him because we don't talk - he just liked my photos and posts on FB and commented, that was it.

My SO says it's not me he doesn't trust, he knows I will not do anything nor allow anything to happen. He just doesn't like that this person will be getting some of my attention and time, potentially making me laugh, hearing my stories, he said. That is textbook jealousy (and I understand that, I just wish he wasn't so insecure or jealous I guess because it hurts him a lot and ends up hurting our relationship) and I don't plan to be chummy or do anything harmful to our relationship of course. He has even said he might need to check himself into a mental institution while I am gone. For real. I think that is a little overboard, but am I wrong? I just want to help him not to worry so much but it seems terribly excessive and is making me not even look forward to going on this trip, which I shouldn't be made to feel that way IMO. I had been very much looking forward and me and my friend have received a grant even to attend, but now that this guy is going, it's turned almost into a nightmare for me which sucks. I just don't think that level of stress and worry is necessary! It's not like I am going with my ex husband or even someone I dated... just the distress it is causing him seems very excessive.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> However, this new person is 180 degrees different so I guess I am having a hard time adjusting and the demands seem unreasonable sometimes, yes, because of past behavior (he has threatened me not with bodily harm but in general, punched walls, been verbally abusive, etc - so yes, I am not over exaggerating) and I don't want to encourage his thinking that I am going to submit to being controlleed, etc.



This is completely separate from his concerns regarding your boundaries with other men..... which does beg the question, why are you still with him.

Both men and woman can express concern about their partner's behavior around the opposite sex and in particular, regarding those called friends.

There are several of us here who agree that he is not unreasonable nor unusual in those concerns. However, his aggressive behavior towards you is whatever the concerns are that trigger this behavior.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> I guess bottom line to me is that if I am not interested, I am not interested. And yes, everyone's boundaries are different. *I was married for 12 years - together 17 - to a guy who was so trusting that he never questioned me, any other person or anything, because he knew I was that trustworthy and I would handle any relationship threats that occurred*. I had lunch with male friends with never any issue. And I protected our relationship without fail (he didn't it turns out, but that's another story haha). However, this new person is 180 degrees different so I guess I am having a hard time adjusting and the demands seem unreasonable sometimes, yes, because of past behavior (he has threatened me not with bodily harm but in general, punched walls, been verbally abusive, etc - so yes, I am not over exaggerating) and I don't want to encourage his thinking that I am going to submit to being controlled, etc.
> 
> So, this is all helping me to understand what is normal and what is not. Maybe the relationship I had for 17 years was not normal, but it sure was nice in that way. Total trust, opennness, etc. So to not feel trusted when I am doing nothing (I literally DO NOT know this person, spend any time with them, nor talk to them) hurts my feelings. Saying "you can't stand next to this person" just doesn't resonate well with my gut I guess.
> 
> ...


Or...it had nothing to do with your perceived trustworthyness...maybe he really didn't care, because well, he didn't care...as evidenced by his affair.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree - and I was trying to keep this topic limited to the question at hand, but have had to give more background as to why coming from him it makes me more concerned.

That IS a good question and I am really trying to work on this, and he has shown improvement, but it remains to be seen if it lasts or is enough. Not to be vain AT ALL, but I am very considerably better looking than his first wife so I think that has caused him to be much more insecure, as he tells me he feels I am "out of his league".

The aggression and anger only comes when he gets jealous, history dictates. He is actually handling this pretty well, because we have had a serious "come to Jesus" recently about his behavior and I cut him off for a few weeks. He can be really wonderful but of course then not so much so, and he started going to a therapist and has definitely seemingly made some progress. But you're right, I am at the make or break point honestly and he knows it.

He has anxiety issues to begin with, so I know that drives some of it and the worry. I don't have those issues so I can't relate totally but I try to be understanding. However, he is not allowed to be abusive towards me no matter what the issue. That is what we had to get a handle on first. His previous wife was emotionally and verbally abusive at times and taught him those behaviors I think, because his family is salt of the earth wonderful but hers is not. 

So, I guess we have a larger issue at play here and that has a bearing on this situation. But I do agree with a lot of what everyone has said about his boundaries being different than mine in general and that maybe I have unrealistic views of what is normal because of my past relationship (however, I really enjoyed that so it's hard feeling like I have less freedom now so to speak). But then again other posters have seemed to have my point of view as well - so I guess it's just to each his own and I will just have to see how this works out. We leave Nov 30 so not very long from now! At this point I kind of just want it to be over and I am sad I have to feel like that about what should be a trip of a lifetime for me.


----------



## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

I would cancel the trip. He obviously is insecure because of actions you have taken in the past which he was not 100% supportive of. You have many "boy" friends? I would not tolerate that in my marriage.
My w had an old BF liking her posts. Then he started commenting on her posts. Then he said "we should get together soon". Then he PMed her to say the same. 

By this time, I was on TAM and understood where things may have been heading. She had not responded to his request. However I knew it was only a matter of time before they ended up "getting together" so I shut it down HARD. It was quite a scene, but she unfriended him and as far as I can tell, there has been no contact at all (yes, weightlifter is in my ears). Her compliance has decreased my "insecurity". 

In short, I'd say, he is acting quite normal for being with you based on what you've posted. Your question is... how important is he in your life? What will you be willing to sacrifice for a more stable relationship.

If you were mine, I'd tell you to cancel the trip, or suffer the consequences of my insecurities flying through the roof.

My prediction is that if you go, your relationship will be over.
He is saying that without trying to be controlling.

IF you love him, don't go.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

A trip of a lifetime ??? 7 days?

Are there special ceremonies; are you receiving an award; is this trip a gift from someone else; you said it's for a hobby, does that mean that there no other trips with that theme anywhere?


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Well, we received a grant to go on this trip, and so we have to go, or refund the money. We have plane tickets that are non-refundable that are $1000 each, and also course fee costs of $800 euro (so $1200+). So if I cancelled, it would cost me $2200. My best friend is my business partner so this is intended as education for our business. We get special access to things that normally folks who would appreciate it don't get to see. It involves horses. The course happens every two years. 

So because someone else invited a person I don't even know or care about on a trip that was planned by ME that's a public course I can't go now? That makes no sense to me. I have no real choice but to go at this point and I think it's unfair that I would have to cancel this trip that we had to apply for a grant for and compete for in April (and were awarded) to get to go on, because some dude happens to be tagging along now. But I am the loser? If someone can't understand that and given the abuse I have already taken in this relationship, if it's over, that will tell me all I need to know. I should have called it over A LONG time ago based on his scary and aggressive behavior towards me and the pain he has put me through related to that, so if me going on a week trip that I planned and worked for where some dude I don't care about happens to be there is the straw then so be it. Sorry. That seems absurd to me. I would never make such demands or threats toward him in the same situation. And he hasn't said it would be over. He doesn't even care that I'm going. He just asked that I not stand next to the person in pictures. That was the original question. If I can't take trips because of this relationship then it needs to end anyway. It's not like there is a question am interested in this person and somehow am trying to go away with him. Someone else invited him and I don't even know him. And he liked pictures and comments on FB and never has said or done anything inappropriate to me.

Maybe my ex husband was so non-jealous or didn't care like someone else said and it's given me a false sense about what a relationship is all about, who knows. But I need someone who is secure and trusts me. I have all sorts of friends with relationships like this so I know they exist and I'm not crazy. The thing is, I haven't done anything in the past to cause him to be insecure. He just plain is and always has been. And anxious in general, negative thinking and overthinks. He says he knows I will not engage the person and he's not worrying about me somehow falling for this person, just doesn't want them near me because they may be interested - this person is not on my agenda so I don't care what they think or want, it will not affect me. I can handle myself. It seems like just jealousy and based on his past crazy reactions I am sure of it. But at least this time he is being a bit more reasonable about it.

Like someone else said, the bigger question is why am I still with him, perhaps. I have wondered myself, because the good is really good, but the bad is really bad. It seems to have been better lately so I keep giving it more chances. But I am at the make or break point right now. He hasn't said it would be over if I go, he just doesn't like the fact that this dude will be there and I don't blame him for that but I have no control over it at this point and it was not my doing either, and it was MY trip. So how come my best friend's husband has no problem with this guy going on the trip? He trusts her and knows this dude is not a threat. He hasn't said one word. That's the relationship that I want and I know it exists. Otherwise I think there is a lack of trust issue.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I guess bottom line to me is that if I am not interested, I am not interested. And yes, everyone's boundaries are different. I was married for 12 years - together 17 - to a guy who was so trusting that he never questioned me, any other person or anything, because he knew I was that trustworthy and I would handle any relationship threats that occurred. I had lunch with male friends with never any issue. And I protected our relationship without fail (he didn't it turns out, but that's another story haha).


 So you had weak opposite sex friend (OSF) boundaries with your ex-husband, how did that work out for you? Answer, he cheated on you.



fadedsmile said:


> Saying "you can't stand next to this person" just doesn't resonate well with my gut I guess.


 Please understand that he does not want pictures of this trip posted on Facebook by you, your girlfriend or the other man, that might get others that do not share your OSF boundaries to ask him who that other man is. Something tells me that the other man might post as many of the pictures with you as he could, and there is nothing that you can do to stop him from doing that once he has the pictures.



fadedsmile said:


> On this trip we will be meeting a larger group, a total of probably 12-15, so it will not just be us four.


 12 to 15 is not a very large group at all, and you will be in a sub group of 4 where both you and the other man would be hanging with your friend.



fadedsmile said:


> I plan to make it very clear I have no interest and I have also told my friend who does seem to have lax boundaries that I am NOT interested and he was annoying me (he is no longer a friend on FB).


 Had you done what your SO had asked earlier about taking a stronger stand with the other man that “was annoying” you , then your friend that you acknowledge has “lax boundaries” would have know better than to invite the other man on this trip with you.



fadedsmile said:


> Heck, without Facebook none of this would have ever happened because I don't see him in real life unless she invites him around which has been twice in several months.


 After this trip you will no longer be able to say that about the other man, as you would have spent a week together getting to really know each other.


----------



## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

You are making excuses to go and jeopardize your marriage. $2200 = end of marriage?

You should end the marriage cause you don't love your husband.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

All I can do at this point is just make it very clear I am not interested (which my SO knows I am surely not and that's not even at question) and don't want pictures with the person near me, etc. 

I don't think my friend even sees this person as an issue for either one of us. I don't think she invited him on purpose to mess up a relationship but to just offer him an opportunity to do something he might enjoy. I don't think there are any poor intentions here. I guess I just don't take it near as seriously because I have no intentions of getting to know him well, don't have any involvement with him or friendship and as soon as we get back it will stay that way. He is just another person going on a trip just like any of the other folks that will be there. I would be far more concerned had he actually said "hey I'm interested in you" or whatnot, but that has never happened. To say "hey buddy, stop liking my posts on FB" seemed extreme and presumptuous... I defriended him so I think he got the message. 

I appreciate the help in understanding other's points of view. No one is wrong, just different, and you have to find someone who has close to the same views and opinions as you or else the result will be conflict.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

kennethk said:


> You are making excuses to go and jeopardize your marriage. $2200 = end of marriage?
> 
> You should end the marriage cause you don't love your husband.


I'm sorry but that is kind of cruel. You must not have read this whole topic from the start, either. It's not jeopardizing anything - even he has said that. It will be fine when I get back. He hasn't asked me not to go, he trusts me that nothing will happen. Just doesn't like that this other person is now going, nor do I for that matter, but we are dealing with it. He just didn't want me to be in pictures next to this person. That was it. I don't know why this has turned into an abuse session for ME now. I have used some of the advice here in talking about it and we have made some progress which is terrific. However, some of it is not helpful, but you'll have that...

On the other hand I think he doesn't love me if he would expect me to give up a trip that has been planned for months and worked hard for just because some random guy is now going (added in months later). He hasn't even asked that. Because of love, I would put myself through hell so my partner could be happy. That's what love is. Not keeping them from doing harmless things they love to do because of being selfish and jealous (which is what telling me I can't go would be, IMO - which has has not done at all, I add again... with that you're saying "you can't do something because of me" - and that's the definition of selfish). The question was about standing next to someone in a picture. Good grief! For all that matters, I could meet someone over there that's joining the group and something could go on. To me that is a serious lack of trust to ask me not to go and totally unfair to say I can't go now because some guy is going on public trip also. If something could happen with this guy something could just as well happen with someone else on the trip... So I tell my business partner that sorry I can't go on our trip that we worked hard for to get a grant for because you innocently invited this guy? And lose a bunch of money as well? Plus miss out on the trip I have been looking forward to since April? Or just stop every being able to anything because there might be a guy somewhere that likes me?


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile, have you honestly been surprised that so many people have had a different take on things than you?


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

samyeagar said:


> It's up to you to decide which is more important. Your SO's feelings or this relative stranger that somehow became your friend on facebook.


Bingo.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> All I can do at this point is just make it very clear I am not interested (which my SO knows I am surely not and that's not even at question) and don't want pictures with the person near me, etc.


 Out of respect for your SO's feelings, you agreeing (and following through with it) not to have pictures taken with the other man next to you is a big step in showing your SO that you care. It is a small thing for you but a big thing to him. Good job.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes, I am surprised honestly. No one that I know would have as big an issue that I know of. Maybe I am crazy, but I want to be in a mature, trusting relationship.

I have talked with him and agreed that I will make it clear that I don't want any photos with this person and will have as little contact as possible. Hearing this discussion has helped me to understand that part better. He seems satisfied with that even though I know he will be worried nonetheless and I understand that. But there is no way I can not go on the trip and think that is super unrealistic to expect given the circumstances and how things happened, and that I am in control of myself and nothing is going to just happen. Like someone else said, this guy is not on my agenda so he matters none to me. I am going on this trip with my best friend for our business and for enjoyment, but he is not a factor. I just need to find someone that has the same views as me on things, is all, if this doesn't work out. And they do exist, clearly.


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

A 7 day trip overseas that involves horses? Can I take random weird dude's spot? Problems solved!


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> Yes, I am surprised honestly. No one that I know would have as big an issue that I know of. Maybe I am crazy, but I want to be in a mature, trusting relationship.
> 
> I have talked with him and agreed that I will make it clear that I don't want any photos with this person and will have as little contact as possible. Hearing this discussion has helped me to understand that part better. He seems satisfied with that even though I know he will be worried nonetheless and I understand that. But there is no way I can not go on the trip and think that is super unrealistic to expect given the circumstances and how things happened, and that I am in control of myself and nothing is going to just happen. Like someone else said, this guy is not on my agenda so he matters none to me. I am going on this trip with my best friend for our business and for enjoyment, but he is not a factor. * I just need to find someone that has the same views as me on things, is all, if this doesn't work out. And they do exist, clearly*.


There is a fine line between trusting your partner and not caring about your partner and the relationship. You already found one who you thought trusted you, when he really just didn't care.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> I am just trying to make sure that I am not setting a dangerous precendent by rewarding what is perhaps inappropriate jealousy.
> 
> Or am I wrong and he is completely founded, and I should avoid this person like the plague? My ex was so trusting and non jealous that I can't quite figure out where the line is. I guess I feel like I am in control of me, and don't care what this person things or does because he is not even on my radar. Like GA HEART said, I am just controlling my response, which will be absolutely nothing.
> 
> ...



Pick your battles wisely. This one you might let go for the moment. See how your SO handles other situations down the road. If it is repetitive think about calling the ball on the relationship. 

Yeah, I hate FB also. Just good media for creeping others pages.


----------



## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

My two cents: during my marriage tensions increased in regards to a woman that had been friends with my husband before we got married. She had the hots for him. I questioned text messages, etc. The more he denied and dismissed my feelings, the more of an issue it became until, whenever we talked about it, I appeared irrational. But at that point it was no longer about him and her, it was about him dismissing me. So I wonder how much that dynamic may be playing out here. You say he's exhibited jealousy before. Perhaps what looks like an overreaction here is leftover resentment from him not feeling heard before.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> My two cents: during my marriage tensions increased in regards to a woman that had been friends with my husband before we got married. She had the hots for him. I questioned text messages, etc. The more he denied and dismissed my feelings, the more of an issue it became until, whenever we talked about it, I appeared irrational. But at that point it was no longer about him and her, it was about him dismissing me. So I wonder how much that dynamic may be playing out here. You say he's exhibited jealousy before. Perhaps what looks like an overreaction here is leftover resentment from him not feeling heard before.


Or perhaps a prior relationship that went sour in the trust department.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

GA HEART said:


> A 7 day trip overseas that involves horses? Can I take random weird dude's spot? Problems solved!


God I wish!! I would be thrilled if he didn't go! haha

I told my SO I wish he could go (he's not disallowed at all) but he's not into horses and the finances or work schedule wouldn't allow. 

He definitely is a jealous person and has admitted to it. And his anxiety issues don't help. He thinks the worst and mind gets carried away and it becomes a big deal. Just not near as laid back as I am I guess. 

He has been very ugly to me on more than one (or 10) occasion when I thought it was totally unfounded, but again our views seem to be very different in general. I REALLY trying to make things better and everyone's advice is helping. I appreciate the other viewpoints being shared so I can make sure I am not being unrealistic - it's just hard because my last relationship was 180 degrees different, good or not, and so this is just something new for me to deal with and work on.

Honestly, I really hate Facebook anymore. Without that, this guy would never had any contact with me except just as an acquaintance at a two places which is nothing more than just people you come in contact with when you're purely just living life. The annoying likes and harmless but excessive comments were what started my SO's aggravation (which is founded) and my annoyance. But it never went past that and I have gotten rid of him on FB and all is well now in that area.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> Yes, I am surprised honestly. No one that I know would have as big an issue that I know of. Maybe I am crazy, but I want to be in a mature, trusting relationship.
> 
> I have talked with him and agreed that I will make it clear that I don't want any photos with this person and will have as little contact as possible. Hearing this discussion has helped me to understand that part better. He seems satisfied with that even though I know he will be worried nonetheless and I understand that. But there is no way I can not go on the trip and think that is super unrealistic to expect given the circumstances and how things happened, and that I am in control of myself and nothing is going to just happen. Like someone else said, this guy is not on my agenda so he matters none to me. I am going on this trip with my best friend for our business and for enjoyment, but he is not a factor. *I just need to find someone that has the same views as me on things, is all, if this doesn't work out. And they do exist, clearly*.


Like whom....... like your exHusband who cheated on you. 

Maybe there was trust on both sides, but certainly not trustworthiness. Trustworthy people don't tread the boundaries and then wonder why their partner is uncomfortable.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I have talked with him and agreed that I will make it clear that I don't want any photos with this person and will have as little contact as possible. Hearing this discussion has helped me to understand that part better. He seems satisfied with that even though I know he will be worried nonetheless and I understand that.


 You making it clear to the other man that you don't want any photos with him, will have the side benefit of making it clear to the other man and your friend that you are in a relationship with someone that you care about, and that he should not try to act inappropriate with you.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> God I wish!! I would be thrilled if he didn't go! haha
> 
> I told my SO I wish he could go (he's not disallowed at all) but he's not into horses and the finances or work schedule wouldn't allow.
> 
> ...


Or your lighthearted personal, nonbusiness related chat with your chiropractor. That really is an ethical breach on his part, and unprofessional.


ETA: And contrary to popular belief, there are no laws, federal or state requiring people to have Facebook accounts. When I hear people complain about the drama it causes, yet continue on it, they lose a whole lot of credibility. Also, facebook does not cause drama, it is just an easy outlet for those who already have it.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

TRy said:


> You making it clear to the other man that you don't want any photos with him, will have the side benefit of making it clear to the other man and your friend that you are in a relationship with someone that you care about, and that he should not try to act inappropriate with you.


I would also add that you should frame your concern about photographs in the context of your being careful about photos floating around on the internet, given that your FB page is for professional purposes......... not that your mean ole boyfriend made you avoid picture with THAT guy.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

samyeagar said:


> Or your lighthearted personal, nonbusiness related chat with your chiropractor. That really is an ethical breach on his part, and unprofessional.
> 
> 
> ETA: And contrary to popular belief, there are no laws, federal or state requiring people to have Facebook accounts. When I hear people complain about the drama it causes, yet continue on it, they lose a whole lot of credibility. Also, facebook does not cause drama, it is just an easy outlet for those who already have it.


I am actually the lowest drama person in the world... I hate conflict and hate drama, just want to be in peace. So I guess in being purely naive I didn't do more with this person's uninvited attention sooner - I didn't see the drama it would cause because it didn't mean anything or matter to me at all, so I was assuming it wouldn't cause issues anywhere else.

The only reason the chiropractor wrote me was that he was a good childhood friend of one of my other friends and she referred me to him, so we had that in common so it didn't seem that odd to me. If I didn't have that, I would have thought him messaging me to be far stranger. I guess bottom line is I am naive and always have been, and always try to see the good in people when there may not be any... lol


----------



## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

Has your SO ever been cheated on? That might explain a few things, like the outright jealousy. My guess though is that he doesn't know how else to handle the fact that he's not comfortable with you going, so out comes a fairly odd request regarding pictures. 

In my marriage, trips with OSF is a no-go. Hell, we don't have OSF to start with. Is it because of trust? Nope. It's just boundaries.

Your emphatic statements about being able to control yourself, knowing when to shut things down, saying you're not interested...those would be tough for me as a spouse. The reason is that it gives the impression that you think you're above temptation. I'd like to think I am as well, but the truth is we're all human. Given the right situation, in the wrong circumstances, and we could slip. The possibility exists, even for those of us who swear it does not.

You and your SO have different boundaries. That's going to be an issue until they come more in-line with each other.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I don't think he has been cheated on, but he says he views me as out of his league looks wise, so I think he has some insecurities. I think you might be right, FOB, about the pictures thing. 

I agree that the basic issue is we do have different boundaries. His ex was also frightfully jealous and restrictive so I think he thinks that is normal, which it is not either. So we are at different end of the spectrum and trying to realize we both need to shift a bit closer together like you said. It's not a personal slight or insult, it's just what we both believe strongly in.

I agree that temptation is everywhere, but I have met this person already as I mentioned and can tell you there is no way I would be interested or tempted at all.  I know everyone says that but I am serious. No way Jose, plus I am happy with my relationship for the most part so I would never risk it and he says he knows that and that's not the problem. I would be uncomfy too with the situation but I would have to put my trust in my SO's hands and I would say have a great trip. Maybe others aren't that stand-up, selfless, secure or mature, who knows, everyone is different for sure!


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I am in control of myself and nothing is going to just happen.


 Sorry but you cannot honestly say that. No one can. You can control your actions, which is why you have boundaries, but you cannot control how you will feel. 

Right now you barely know this other man. After this trip you will know him very well, and based on your best friend liking him, you cannot truthfully rule out you learning to like him on this trip.. Your SO has a right to be uncomfortable with the fact that a single other man, that has already show that he is interested in you, that has enough of a personality that he is good friends with your best friend, that may have possible spent the money to go on this trip because of you, will now have the opportunity to get to know you better in pursuit of you. Dating is all about giving you and someone else the opportunity to know each other better to see what will develop. As far as you and the other man getting to know each other better, this one week trip will be better than a dozen dates. The reason that most people in committed relationship have boundaries about dating others, is because people have a right to feel safe in their relationship. I am not saying not to go on this trip. I am just pointing out that you should take your SO concerns seriously and not dismiss them out of hand.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

FOB said:


> In my marriage, trips with OSF is a no-go. Hell, we don't have OSF to start with. Is it because of trust? Nope. It's just boundaries.
> 
> Your emphatic statements about being able to control yourself, knowing when to shut things down, saying you're not interested...those would be tough for me as a spouse. The reason is that it gives the impression that you think you're above temptation. I'd like to think I am as well, but the truth is we're all human. Given the right situation, in the wrong circumstances, and we could slip. The possibility exists, even for those of us who swear it does not.


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
Well said. This is how many people feel about opposite sex friends. If I were in the OP's position, I would not go on the trip, because no trip is worth more to me than my spouse's legitimate feelings. Then again, the OP is not married and has repeatedly stated things that show that she is not fully committed to her current SO, so going makes sense for the OP.


----------



## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

I agree with TRy. Also, I think it's dangerous to start labeling things 'frightfully jealous' until you understand them fully. Am I jealous if I ask my wife to not use the personal trainer at the gym who hits on her? If she thinks it's fine, but I don't, am I a nutter husband who's trying to control her? I don't see it that way. I'd simply be asking my wife not to put herself in a situation that probably isn't the healthiest thing for our relationship, regardless of how strong or trustworthy she is. She would ask the same of me.

Different things work for different couples, so there is no right or wrong here. Fadedsmile, you and I have drastically different opinions about what is ok/wise/acceptable in a committed relationship, so nothing I say here is going to make much sense.  It works for you, but it wouldn't work for me.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> The annoying likes and harmless but excessive comments were what started my SO's aggravation (which is founded) and my annoyance. But it never went past that and I have gotten rid of him on FB and all is well now in that area.


Some comments aren't so harmless. I noticed that over the 18 months that my (now) husband was having a relationship of some sort with his just a friend ex that 
1. During the first 5 months that they were FB friends and I was not in the picture, she commented on his wall 1 time.

2. During the 2 and one half months that he multidated us AND she knew about me, she made a total of 9 likes and comments.

On the weekend that I was returning from a 3 week trip to visit my family, she wrote in one of her comments "Thanks for providing reading while on my way to a home visit LOL" Was she hoping that I might be looking at his wall in real time?

3. So over the 18 months that they were FB friends (he de friended her as an offer to me), there were a total 13 entries. But about 75% of them occurred during a 3 month period (16% of the time).

4. I figured out that the concerts he was going to without me, she was going with him because she "liked" the concerts that he mentioned on his wall. So he stopped mentioning them

IOW, I would not be surprised if your female friend or your FB friend are planning to try something on. Generally, I think most people who are fooling around like pushing the boundaries to see how you and your partner will react.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> I am just trying to make sure that I am not setting a dangerous precendent by rewarding what is perhaps inappropriate jealousy.
> 
> Or am I wrong and he is completely founded, and I should avoid this person like the plague? My ex was so trusting and non jealous that I can't quite figure out where the line is. I guess I feel like I am in control of me, and don't care what this person things or does because he is not even on my radar. Like GA HEART said, I am just controlling my response, which will be absolutely nothing.
> 
> ...


Then go with your gut....You can handle it all yourself...take responsibility and do what you want. You have to own what happens, but that's part of being a responsible human. 

Good Luck


----------



## lovesmanis (Oct 9, 2014)

Well, I personally would go on the trip, stand firm that he has nothing to worry about, do not take pictures with you and the other person beside you and enjoy your trip.

He needs to learn that you are not the type to cheat and he needs to respect that.

I married an i secure and jealous guy. Their issues are not yours, they are theirs, and if you cater to them, then you are just reinforcing their beliefs. 

Stand firm now. He is over reacting. If you do not, you are playing into his i securities and it will just get worse.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Faded, given the amount of money that you have paid already, perhaps take the trip, but think about strategies to make it work for you (that is, if you want to keep your bf and not cause any resentment)

Somethings to think about:

1. Call each other at least once a day. Buy a US phone number through Skype. He can call you on that number and (after annual Skype charge that you pay) he will effectively be making an in country phone call. Buy your own area code and then it will be a local call to him.

2. Text regularly.

3. Make a huge effort to socialise with the other people. It will probably to your advantage in the long term anyway.

4. Watch out for anyone wielding a camera, particularly at a happy hour when you'll have a drink in your hand. 

An end of the week attendance photo is fine. But ensure that you are several people away from this guy.

I think it's funny that during the period before I met my (future) husband, he and this woman took a meetup trip. There's a group photo online and he and she are standing at opposite ends of the group. Considering the text messages between them at the time, it's not surprising. (and of course, it was before she had any idea that there was "competition.")

Maybe other people have a few pointers.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

lovesmanis said:


> Well, I personally would go on the trip, stand firm that he has nothing to worry about, do not take pictures with you and the other person beside you and enjoy your trip.
> 
> He needs to learn that you are not the type to cheat and he needs to respect that.
> 
> ...


This is EXACTLY my standpoint. To the T. I have spoken with him and assured him I will not take pictures with the person and he has calmed down and seems a lot better off. But this is EXACTLY my point of view. I knew there had to be someone else with it but I am respecting his feelings and will refrain from photos that would be upsetting to him.

Thank you so much for the pointers. I think after me talking to him with some of the advice here he is settled down considerably. I really appreciate the help!!


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

kennethk said:


> You are making excuses to go and jeopardize your marriage. $2200 = end of marriage?
> 
> You should end the marriage cause you don't love your husband.


They are not married. They don't live together and she's questioning the relationship because he had been scary/violent and overly jealous all along.


----------



## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

So your SO isn't that significant ... Go for the new guy and prove SO wrong.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Q tip said:


> So your SO isn't that significant ... Go for the new guy and prove SO wrong.


We don't even live together. Just in a committed relationship. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> We don't even live together. Just in a committed relationship.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Some women do not mesh well with insecure men. I'm one of them--just reading about your situation makes me shudder. It's got nothing to do with right or wrong, or how trustworthy or loving you are. It has to do with how your personal boundaries clash with his relationship boundaries. Think long and hard about whether you want to be in a marriage where you _constantly_ have to deal with this sort of issue. 

It isn't going to go away, and over time it could shut down your sexual attraction for him, inviting a whole new set of problems.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

GettingIt said:


> Some women do not mesh well with insecure men. I'm one of them--just reading about your situation makes me shudder. It's got nothing to do with right or wrong, or how trustworthy or loving you are. It has to do with how your personal boundaries clash with his relationship boundaries. Think long and hard about whether you want to be in a marriage where you _constantly_ have to deal with this sort of issue.
> 
> It isn't going to go away, and over time it could shut down your sexual attraction for him, inviting a whole new set of problems.


Yes, this is it exactly also. Like I said, I haven't determined for sure this is a viable long term thing. I don't want to hurt all the time and I don't him to either.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> Some women do not mesh well with insecure men. I'm one of them--just reading about your situation makes me shudder. It's got nothing to do with right or wrong, or how trustworthy or loving you are.


 First you are in effect saying that he is wrong when you say that he is insecure, and then you claim that it has nothing to do with right or wrong. You either are open minded in accepting that he has a legitimate point of view, or you are not open minded. You cannot have it both ways. This whole calling him "insecure" name calling thing is very self righteous. His boundaries are very normal and are more in line with the majority of people than are the weak boundaries that you and the OP have. So stop calling him insecure, and really practice what you preach when you say that there is no wrong or right here. 

I for one think that this whole "I could never cheat thing" is disingenuous and ignores reality. If the OP goes on this trip, gets to know this other man better than she could on a dozen dates, decides that she likes him just like her best friend does, develops feelings for this other man (OM) but does not have sex with him on the trip, goes home and quickly breaks up with her SO, immediately starts dating the OM, and then has sex with the OM, she could do all this without breaking any of her weak boundaries. Would she be a cheater? By her boundaries no. Even though he was proven right, would you still call him insecure? Probably. 

Here is the thing, the odds are always against you falling for another person as it takes someone special to get you to feel that way. Thus most of the time people with weak boundaries are proven right that the significant other had nothing to worry about. But you could say the same thing of a person playing Russian Roulette where, since there is only a single bullet in only one of the six chambers of the gun, the odds are low that it will fire when you pull the trigger. But just because the odds are in your favor that the gun will not go off, does that mean that it is a safe game to play? Not to me.



GettingIt said:


> It has to do with how your personal boundaries clash with his relationship boundaries. Think long and hard about whether you want to be in a marriage where you _constantly_ have to deal with this sort of issue.


 Funny, because that is exactly the advice that I would be giving to him.


----------



## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Trying to win a battle of wills within a relationship is seldom a good strategy.

He has his opinion. You should either tolerate it or if you cannot tolerate it you realize he is not the guy for you.

The mistake people make is looking for validation of your opinion then attempting to stuff it down your SO's throat. Not a good approach.


----------



## APL212 (Nov 20, 2014)

In a way, it's nice to have an SO who cares so much. But I do think this a little on the extreme side. 

You need to be able to be in a group situation with this person without being rude. It seems like there is a bigger issue at the heart of all this, like your SO has just chosen this moment to ask you to take their side so they get a win or gain some ground?


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

JustHer said:


> Thank you for reminding me why I quit coming to this web site (my mistake for trying it again). The rude, vulgar comments are unnecessary, but unfortunately all too common here.


Everyone is different and everyone has their own demeanor. The "rude, vulgar" comments might be unnecessary to you but might hit home with someone else. If you live in NYC, people are rude, vulgar, and straight to the point and it works. If you live in another area, people are nice, easy, and seldom and it works. Get over it. This is a 'public' forum. 

Problems like in the OP's situation just don't go away. "It's not you I don't trust, it's the other guy yadayaydyaydya." Has been said over a million times. The OP is with an insanely jealous guy via "you take a picture with him and I will leave you." Comments like that create control and red flags. That is a red flag just screaming at you of MORE red flags to come. Insanely jealous people looking to control their SO have deep issues. The more control they get, the faster those deep issues come to surface.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Faded - This began as just the photo,, then it transpired that he fits the jealousy mould elsewhere. The photo thing alone would've had me packing.


Fact is, we send our SOs out into a world full of predators who don't respect our relationships. If your SO is a cheater, there's no lack of opportunities.

So, either you trust them to resist all comers, or you don't. This has nothing to do with his attitude to FB guy, and everything to do with his attitude to you. Already you're feeling apprehensive about going at all, and you shouldn't have to.

Any argument that you wouldn't go (cuz FB guy is going) if you really cared about your BF is ridiculous. Are you supposed to 'prove your love' by quitting work when he objects to a colleague? Switching gyms when he thinks your trainer has designs on you? Where does it end? (Locked in an apartment covered in bruises).

Don't put up with any suggestion that you're a cheater when you aren't. If he has you feeling bad about this guy now, you'll be feeling bad about another sooner or later.

You think the photos will be the last of it? WEEKS spent with a guy he thinks is after you. Nah,,, you'll be coming home to the BIG QUIZ.

He may not be violent,, but psychological control is every bit as insipid and effective upon the vulnerable.

It's not for you to prove you're not a cheat. It's for him to prove he trusts you. Demands and conditions prove to you that he doesn't.

Have a great time on the trip you've been looking forward to.


_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

TRy said:


> First you are in effect saying that he is wrong when you say that he is insecure, and then you claim that it has nothing to do with right or wrong. You either are open minded in accepting that he has a legitimate point of view, or you are not open minded. You cannot have it both ways. This whole calling him "insecure" name calling thing is very self righteous. His boundaries are very normal and are more in line with the majority of people than are the weak boundaries that you and the OP have. So stop calling him insecure, and really practice what you preach when you say that there is no wrong or right here.


I'm not name calling. What I said was that some women don't mesh well with insecure men. The matter of whether an individual is "insecure" (or "has weak boundaries" for that matter) is an opinion of the person making the judgment, and usually in relation to themselves or others they are comparing that person to. The OP's significant other displays behavior that *I* find insecure in an unattractive way. Just because I find his behavior unattractive and wouldn't tolerate it in a parter doesn't mean that he is "wrong" or a "bad person"--it simply means he'd be wrong for me, a bad match for me. 

I'm not bothered in the least that you find my boundaries weak or abnormal. It's good that you can recognize the sort of person that you wouldn't do well with in a relationship. I found a good match because I know my boundaries and stick by them, and I bet you have been able to do the same since you seem pretty adamant about your boundaries. 




TRy said:


> I for one think that this whole "I could never cheat thing" is disingenuous and ignores reality. If the OP goes on this trip, gets to know this other man better than she could on a dozen dates, decides that she likes him just like her best friend does, develops feelings for this other man (OM) but does not have sex with him on the trip, goes home and quickly breaks up with her SO, immediately starts dating the OM, and then has sex with the OM, she could do all this without breaking any of her weak boundaries. Would she be a cheater? By her boundaries no. Even though he was proven right, would you still call him insecure? Probably.


No, she wouldn't be a cheater. She met someone else she liked better than the SO, was honest with herself and her SO, and moved on. *shrug* You can't keep people on a leash as a method to keep them in a relationship. In healthy relationships, people stay because they want to, because they truly love and want to be with their partners, not because their partner restricts their exposure to other people. The OP's SO is going to be in a constant state of anxiety and discomfort because the OP is not a person who can live with those sorts of restrictions. 



TRy said:


> Here is the thing, the odds are always against you falling for another person as it takes someone special to get you to feel that way. Thus most of the time people with weak boundaries are proven right that the significant other had nothing to worry about. But you could say the same thing of a person playing Russian Roulette where, since there is only a single bullet in only one of the six chambers of the gun, the odds are low that it will fire when you pull the trigger. But just because the odds are in your favor that the gun will not go off, does that mean that it is a safe game to play? Not to me.


I'm sure there are folks out there compatible with your way of thinking. I'd find a relationship with someone like that stifling and unbearable, and you would find a relationship with someone like me to be highly uncomfortable as well. Doesn't mean I don't like you as a person, I just know I wouldn't mesh well with those sorts of "insecurities" just like you know you couldn't deal with my "weak boundaries".



TRy said:


> Funny, because that is exactly the advice that I would be giving to him.


Why do you think this is funny? I think each of us have clear boundaries and know the pitfalls of relaxing them for a partner who is simply not compatible with us. Just because we're not the same when it comes to what we'd accept from a partner doesn't mean we can't agree on that.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Thanks for the great input here. It has REALLY been helpful to me. It makes me feel better in some ways, but even more worried about the relationship in others.

I am very independent and secure person. He is not. Admittedly, even. I don't "need" a man. His previous long term relationship of 18 years was with a very dependent, compliant woman who was not terribly good looking or friendly (morbidly obese at the end), low self esteem with few to no friends or social life/hobbies, received little attention from men. On the other hand, I take care of myself physically and am a very friendly, kind and outgoing person and make friends easily. I have in fact strived to be that type of person as well, so I resent that he does not seem to appreciate that about me at times (because it attracts people). I have good self esteem and am secure and independent. I have a few serious hobbies and enjoy social time with a relatively small friend group of long time friends. So, I'm literally the polar opposite of his 18 year relationship. He says I am his "dream girl"... which is flattering but at the same time it makes him hold on to me that much tighter, it seems. 

He knows he is also a jealous person as a result of being insecure (probably because I am so independent and don't ever want a guy to think I can't live without them if they don't behave), but I realize that when they occur those feelings are very strong and cause a lot of emotional pain. I can't ask him not to feel his emotions or that it is wrong. I would rather try to fix the cause, not the symptom, which is insecurity and worry that he is somehow going to lose me. That then becomes my cross to bear, as he apparently expects me never to put him in a situation where he feels jealous, which is pretty much every situation... lol Even when I am just being me and simply living my life, with no intention of getting close to another guy in an inappropriate way and giving no indication I'm even doing that. He worries that it COULD happen and that anxiety then drives him to tell me to "stop hurting him" when it's him with the problems. He is slowly coming to realize this, I think.

He will say over and over that he trusts me and knows I won't do anything or become involved with this person or any other (I was difficult to "catch" - and always am - so he knows I don't come easily so to speak lol)... but just says he can't bear to see photos of this guy he knows is interested in me standing near me. To me, that is just plain ol jealousy, pure and simple as it comes. He doesn't think I am going to fall for this guy, but he doesn't want him receiving attention from me in any way. I think that's pretty textbook.

Flying Dutchman pretty much summed up what I think about the situation. I shouldn't be made to feel bad about this trip when it was not my doing and I have no interest in this person. If he trusts me and has confidence in our relationship, he should be able to sit back and say, good luck buddy, you'll never get her . That would make me feel good, instead of what is happening now where I will be terrified the whole trip that a picture will upset him and cause me a huge amount of grief.

I agree it also comes down to we have very different boundaries and ideas of what is acceptable or "normal". Maybe we are just not a good match, and we shall see.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Makes you wonder if his 18 year gal started off thin, with friends, hobbies and a job.

Glad you appear stronger and won't let that happen.

Not suggesting you'd stray, but don't you find such insecurities are likely to push you away rather than stay?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

See, I think the guy is very much justified in getting upset about a guy liking and commenting on EVERY post/pic of hers on Facebook. Thats what people do when they are interested in someone, when they "like like" someone. I guarantee that if my BF friended some woman who started that crap, I would be pissed. I can also go along with him wanting her to stay away from the guy on a trip as well. OP should have unfriended the guy after her SO expressed his discomfort. You HAVE to respect your partner's feelings on these things. 

I need to read the entire thread to see what else is going down, but wanted to point out that with THIS part above, he really was not out of line. There have to be boundaries, and there needs to be respect when one partner is not comfortable with something.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

You sound like you have a pretty good understanding of yourself, OP. That is, IMO, the most important element in finding and cultivating a healthy relationship. At the same time, you seem to be able to understand that your SO has different boundaries, and that he shouldn't be expected to "just drop" the ways he feels. He, too, must know himself and accept that you might not be healthy for him. 

Reconciling the differences between the two of you would take quite a bit of work and patience from BOTH of you. I think being realistic about this going into a relationship with such natural incompatibilities is crucial. 

If the two of you decide to forge ahead, some honest communication is in order, including the willingness to try and forecast problems and discuss expectations of how they would be handled. I think this trip is a good litmus test. Who is going to be willing to relax their boundaries in order to reach an agreement you are both comfortable with? You? Him? Both of you? 

If you decide to stay with him, you will have to come to terms with the fact that you WILL have to make changes. Your independence and outgoing personality is part of the "problem" for him (there are men out there who would consider those attributes attractive instead of threatening). As I said, think long and hard about what you are willing to compromise, and what you are ABLE to compromise without building resentment.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I'm not name calling. What I said was that some women don't mesh well with insecure men. The matter of whether an individual is "insecure" (or "has weak boundaries" for that matter) is an opinion of the person making the judgment, and usually in relation to themselves or others they are comparing that person to.


 My saying that you have weak boundaries is not the same as you saying that the OP is insecure. One is a comment on their boundaries, whereas the other is labeling them as a person. For example, if instead of saying that you had weak boundaries, I said that you were a "loose woman", that would be labeling you as a person, and thus name calling. Conversely, if you instead stated that you felt that the OP had "restrictive boundaries", then that would be a comment on his boundaries and not name calling by labeling him insecure as a person.

I do not feel that it is being insecure to have boundaries that do not allow a significant other to participate in date like situations with members of the opposite sex that have already made it clear that they are interested in the spouse. You feel that having such a boundary is restrictive, and I feel that not having such a boundary is weak. Thus I feel that you have "weak boundaries" and you feel that I have "restrictive boundaries". There is no need to name call by calling one insecure or the other loose.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

TRy said:


> My saying that you have weak boundaries is not the same as you saying that the OP is insecure. One is a comment on their boundaries, whereas the other is labeling them as a person. For example, if instead of saying that you had weak boundaries, I said that you were a "loose woman", that would be labeling you as a person, and thus name calling. Conversely, if you instead stated that you felt that the OP had "restrictive boundaries", then that would be a comment on his boundaries and not name calling by labeling him insecure as a person.
> 
> I do not feel that it is being insecure to have boundaries that do not allow a significant other to participate in date like situations with members of the opposite sex that have already made it clear that they are interested in the spouse. You feel that having such a boundary is restrictive, and I feel that not having such a boundary is weak. Thus I feel that you have "weak boundaries" and you feel that I have "restrictive boundaries". There is no need to name call by calling one insecure or the other loose.


I call the behavior insecure because that's what it is _to me. _You can decide on whether or not you feel that's an insult, same as I get to decide if your calling my boundaries "weak" is an insult. I consider it all a matter of semantics--different words push different buttons for different people. I'm sure there are people out there who would consider me insecure--doesn't bother me in the least. I'll admit it: I don't have many buttons.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I call the behavior insecure because that's what it is _to me. _You can decide on whether or not you feel that's an insult, same as I get to decide if your calling my boundaries "weak" is an insult. I consider it all a matter of semantics--different words push different buttons for different people.


 You were not calling the behavior insecure, you were calling the SO as a person insecure. And of course it is a matter of semantics. One is a labeling of a set of boundaries, and the other is labeling a person. Labeling a person is name calling. Labeling a set of boundaries is not. You trying to say that you are not name calling when you call the SO insecure is disingenuous.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> *Makes you wonder if his 18 year gal started off thin, with friends, hobbies and a job.*
> 
> Glad you appear stronger and won't let that happen.
> 
> Not suggesting you'd stray, but don't you find such insecurities are likely to push you away rather than stay?


I too was wondering this about his ex. I've seen this happen to women. They start out in a very good place, but over the years are beat down by a jealous, controlling husband.

Even a very strong woman who has a full life can end up this way if she slowly, over a long time, gives up anything about herself that makes her jealous, controlling SO/husband upset.


(And yes this can happen to a man who is married to a jealous, controlling woman as well.)


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TRy said:


> My saying that you have weak boundaries is not the same as you saying that the OP is insecure. One is a comment on their boundaries, whereas the other is labeling them as a person. For example, if instead of saying that you had weak boundaries, I said that you were a "loose woman", that would be labeling you as a person, and thus name calling. Conversely, if you instead stated that you felt that the OP had "restrictive boundaries", then that would be a comment on his boundaries and not name calling by labeling him insecure as a person.
> 
> *I do not feel that it is being insecure to have boundaries that do not allow a significant other to participate in date like situations with members of the opposite sex *that have already made it clear that they are interested in the spouse. You feel that having such a boundary is restrictive, and I feel that not having such a boundary is weak. Thus I feel that you have "weak boundaries" and you feel that I have "restrictive boundaries". There is no need to name call by calling one insecure or the other loose.


The OP is not participating in date-like situations with any member of the opposite sex. That's the point here isn't it? She has not done this and yet her boyfriend is acting as though she has. He has not only made demands that she change her behavior when she's done nothing wrong, he has also done yelling, and violent behavior (punching holes in walls) related to his attempts to control her.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Ele Girl really gets the situation as I see it. And GettingIt is hitting the nail on the head too about all of it, with good points from everyone else.

I actually have no problem with him being offended by the liking and commenting on FB. That is totally understandable. Heck, it was aggravating me too. At the time, my SO demanded I defriend this person immediately one night when he questioned me about it, which I did not appreciate being forced/threatened to take care of the situation HIS way. It's just not my personal style. At that point, the person hadn't done anything nor said anything to me. I would more appreciate him sharing his feelings, then letting me take care of the problem, which I did. But when you say, you have to do xxxx or else ("or else" is usually either verbal/emotional abuse, threats to end the relationship etc), that is not going to get a good response from me. Ever. lol Call it stubbornness or what not, but that sets a dangerous precedent IMO that says I am expected to be obedient regardless of the request instead of to do what I feel is right and let me have the say over my own decisions and how they are carried out. No question to me that this behavior is controlling in nature. The end result was the same, I got rid of the person and ended all contact. He just wanted it done his way on his time schedule. ("control")

I, too, honestly have wondered about his ex. She was never skinny, but had two children and over the years has increased in obesity. But, she is just as jealous as he is, in fact, probably far worse (what he told me she would say and do regarding other women seemed absurd to me)... he may have learned this from her, I am not sure. If he so much looked at another woman, she would say "You like what you see??" in a crappy tone. He wasn't allowed to hardly talk to another woman without angry consequences. So, he may have developed this over time, thinking it's "normal" to act this way in a relationship, since she certainly did it to him. I think they were both fairly socially isolated thanks to each other. Did not do anything with other couples or friends, etc. So I'm wondering who learned this behavior from who... To me, we are both closer to the far ends of each side of the spectrum and would have a lot of ground to overcome in the middle. Let's face it, it's pretty simple, disagreements are merely caused by differences of opinion or view.

We have very recently (last month or so) kind of realized the root of the problem(s). I agree that both of us are going to have to give to make it work. I am willing to give some, but I think that I am far more normal and rational and accepting than he is, as he makes things difficult for me very often but I do my best not to make anything difficult for him (although he claims when he gets jealous of what I think is a very normal life situation it's my fault and I'm "hurting him"). We have both come to terms with the fact that maybe we aren't a great match in that area - an important one - when in other areas, we are a very good match.

Also when you mentioned "buttons", GettingIt - I am like you. I don't really get offended by much, and am mor laid back, and that took time for me to develop (I used to get insulted often). He is still at the point where he gets his feelings hurt by a lot of things / very sensitive. So he takes things very personally and gets mad or hurt when they aren't even meant that way (will see the worst case scenario whereas I give benefit of the doubt all the time). I'm realizing that time will tell and trying to maintain my ground and not let myself be changed more than I am willing to compromise and end up losing myself. If he doesn't like "me", then I cannot help that. Likewise, he shouldn't have to change but so much for me either. I do find that I am more and more put off by the behavior and who knows, he may be put off by me to a point where it becomes obvious. We shall see....


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I, too, honestly have wondered about his ex. She was never skinny, but had two children and over the years has increased in obesity. But, she is just as jealous as he is, in fact, he may have learned this from her, I am not sure. If he so much looked at another woman, she would say "You like what you see??" in a crappy tone. He wasn't allowed to hardly talk to another woman without angry consequences. So, he may have developed this over time, thinking it's "normal" to act this way in a relationship, since she certainly did it to him. I think they were both fairly social isolated thanks to each other. To me, we are both closer to the far ends of each side of the spectrum and would have a lot of ground to overcome in the middle.


Who told you all of this about his ex? Did he? Or did other people?


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

His previous relationship sounds like a right barrel of laughs.

Don't let him pull that "it hurts me" card. It hurts you to not be taken at your word. The one cancels the other.

Who bends their boundary?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

After reading more of your descriptions of how your SO treats you, I'd have to agree that there is a problem here. Anytime someone starts demanding something of you, that is a red flag. It's one thing to discuss expectations, another to demand compliance, "...or else." That is messed up.

This is an opportunity to really size up your relationship. Do we mesh? Is he right for me? Are we in-line with expectations and values? If you got married, then started doing things you had previously agreed not to, that's a problem. But right now? I don't know...from the outside looking in there seem to be some major hurdles for the two of you. 

If my wife or I started demanding things, there would be war. It's about mutual respect, trust and love -- not control.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The OP is not participating in date-like situations with any member of the opposite sex. That's the point here isn't it? She has not done this and yet her boyfriend is acting as though she has.


 How she acts on the trip with the other man will determine if there are date like situations. That is why he has asked for boundaries while she she is on this trip, but has not asked her not to go.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

If he asked me not to go, I would end it. Luckily he has not asked or even hinted at that. There is no way I could be with someone that selfish to expect that much of a sacrifice from me emotionally and financially given the situation. It would be clear to me that we will never see eye to eye on things. If I was going on a trip that included my ex husband, I can see him asking me not to go at the beginning when it was all set up and disclosed. But, with the way this happened, with this person as a late add on to MY trip, and given I have no contact or interest with this other dude in any other way, I honestly think it's a bit crazy to ask me not to go (and again very selfish - you give up something you have been looking forward to for months and spent a lot of money on so that I can have my jealousy issues catered to)... what does that lead to, I can't go to the supermarket because there might be a guy there that thinks I am attractive? :scratchhead: It sets a dangerous precedent and as someone else said, it would make him feel as if this sort of thing is acceptable (validation). People will only do as much as you allow. 

We have talked about it at length this week and understand that we aren't well matched in this area and have fundamental differences in our thinking that aren't easily shifted. I am thankful for the help from others and lots of advice, and consideration of various points of view. I told him I will honor his wishes and to try to not be next to him in pictures in an attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt that this won't continue to be a problem now that we have figured out what the issues are and taken the personal attacks out of it. If it continues, I will see my way out. Why? Because I don't enjoy it. It makes me feel bad, stressed, restricted and anxious. I have never felt like that in a relationship before, so I know it's not right. It's sad that he has pushed me far enough away with this sometimes ludicrous behavior that I am far enough out to cut the cord if there is a next time for this type thing. I don't think he even realized it but perhaps does now.


----------



## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

lovesmanis said:


> I married an i secure and jealous guy. Their issues are not yours, they are theirs, and if you cater to them, then you are just reinforcing their beliefs.


Strongly disagree. when married, you are in a partnership with a person, and you have to work together to create mutually respectful and agreed upon boundaries for your relationship. 

I don't think being insecure is wrong (well, I myself am a bit insecure), unless it leads to abuse or controlling behaviour. 

I am trying to work on my insecurity by becoming a freaking awesome woman, one that my husband will continue to love and admire forever and by brainwashing myself (constantly remembering who my husband is and what kind of guy he is, and all of the loving, sweet things he says to me). but on the other hand, I feel it is important for my husband to help me with it as well: have appropriate relationships with women, be open, honest, etc. if he didn't do those things for me, it would be so much harder. 

yeah, okay, my insecurity is my issue, but it makes it so much easier when my husband helps me to overcome my insecurity. And of course I reciprocate and make compromises and such. we're a team; we work together to make our relationship and marriage a healthy place for both of us.



> I'd simply be asking my wife not to put herself in a situation that probably isn't the healthiest thing for our relationship, regardless of how strong or trustworthy she is. She would ask the same of me.


it's not about "omg, he's insecure, what's wrong with him!", it's about having appropriate boundaries around our relationship that are mutually satisfying and edifying. 

if you're just thinking about yourself, you shouldn't be in a relationship. if you can't compromise, you probably won't have much of a future for your relationship

if anyone is interested in what the bible says about it, consider Romans 14 (replace "eats everything" with "is insecure" for application to this situation):



> 3 _The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them._ 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.
> 
> 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. _7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone._ 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.
> 
> ...


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

And that is what I wish my SO would do. Try to realize that by working on improving himself and making himself more desirable and appealing to me, he has LESS chance of losing me. 

He's having a self fullfilling prophecy of sorts right now, because he is so scared to lose me, he is being very unattractive and actually slowly getting rid of me. Trying to take away from me to build himself, which is not fair nor healthy.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> If he asked me not to go, I would end it. Luckily he has not asked or even hinted at that. There is no way I could be with someone that selfish to expect that much of a sacrifice from me emotionally and financially given the situation. It would be clear to me that we will never see eye to eye on things. If I was going on a trip that included my ex husband, I can see him asking me not to go at the beginning when it was all set up and disclosed. But, with the way this happened, with this person as a late add on to MY trip, and given I have no contact or interest with this other dude in any other way, I honestly think it's a bit crazy to ask me not to go (and again very selfish - you give up something you have been looking forward to for months and spent a lot of money on so that I can have my jealousy issues catered to)... what does that lead to, I can't go to the supermarket because there might be a guy there that thinks I am attractive? :scratchhead: It sets a dangerous precedent and as someone else said, it would make him feel as if this sort of thing is acceptable (validation). People will only do as much as you allow.
> 
> We have talked about it at length this week and understand that we aren't well matched in this area and have fundamental differences in our thinking that aren't easily shifted. I am thankful for the help from others and lots of advice, and consideration of various points of view. I told him I will honor his wishes and to try to not be next to him in pictures in an attempt to give him the benefit of the doubt that this won't continue to be a problem now that we have figured out what the issues are and taken the personal attacks out of it. If it continues, I will see my way out. Why? Because I don't enjoy it. It makes me feel bad, stressed, restricted and anxious. I have never felt like that in a relationship before, so I know it's not right. It's sad that he has pushed me far enough away with this sometimes ludicrous behavior that I am far enough out to cut the cord if there is a next time for this type thing. I don't think he even realized it but perhaps does now.


 You are not married, do not live with each other, do not have children together, and would quickly drop him over an issue like this. I would not really consider him your SO, but would instead label him your boyfriend. The boundaries that you have while dating a boyfriend are not the same as the boundaries that you would have with someone that you are married to and have children with. Now is the time to find out if you are marriage material for each other. Do you share values etc? Do this now before marriage and children. Am I saying to break up, no. But if you both need to see if you can work these things out together. No wrong or right here, just compatibility.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I totally agree with you. I guess he definitely would be a boyfriend. He does act like we are married, however. So I can easily see how that would be already - and yeah - I wouldn't say yes at this particular moment for sure. If we can conquer this, perhaps. Once we got closer and closer it has gotten worse and now after it kind of came to head it has gotten better, but I am not sure if it will stay that way.

But, seeing it's such a fundamental issue for both of us, I hate to say I don't have a TON of hope it will last... but I could be wrong.  We both have to give, but it remains to be seen if we can each give enough to make each other comfortable. The times inbetween the jealous flare-ups are really good though, so that is what keeps both of us holding on, I think. It only occurs with another person is involved, no matter how innocent it seems. This thread has helped me to realize a lot and has been very valuable. I thank everyone for their contributions, many very time consuming to post and thoughtful.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

TRy said:


> You were not calling the behavior insecure, you were calling the SO as a person insecure. And of course it is a matter of semantics. One is a labeling of a set of boundaries, and the other is labeling a person. Labeling a person is name calling. Labeling a set of boundaries is not. You trying to say that you are not name calling when you call the SO insecure is disingenuous.


Did I label the SO as an insecure person? I know I mentioned that some women don't mesh well with insecure men--is that what you are referring to? I can't find where I directly labeled him as "an insecure person", although admittedly, if I was considering him for a relationship, I would rule him out because I do find him to be such in so far as relationships are concerned. I sure there are areas in his life where he is plenty secure, but that is not what is being evaluated here. 

Also . . . I'm still not sure why that is an insult. I'm insecure in many ways, too. Everyone is, in one way or another, aren't we?. :scratchhead:

I notice that "insecure" seems to be a poison term around here and I'm not sure why. As I said, insecurity exists in a relative sense--a man I consider to be too insecure _for me_ will be just right for someone else. 

I'm fully aware that my boundaries make me "a selfish person" or "a non empathetic person" to some folks. That doesn't bother me. We are all selfish to a degree, and we all have limits to our empathy. 

This is about finding someone with traits you can tolerate happily. I don't want to be with someone I find to be insecure anymore than you want to be with someone you find to be selfish. 

Meh, methinks we are splitting hairs . . .


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

GettingIt said:


> I'm fully aware that my boundaries make me "a selfish person" or "a non empathetic person" to some folks. That doesn't bother me.


 First, calling you selfish would be name calling, and thus something that I would be hesitant to do. Second, nothing that you have posted would make me think that you are either "a selfish person" or "a non empathetic person". Third, although I do not agree with your point of view on this topic, I respect your point of view because it is clear that you are sincere in your beliefs. Four, I truly believe that there is no wrong or right on this topic, just different points of view.

If you want, you can get the last post on this matter, but I think after that we should just agree to respectfully disagree.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OK I am probably going to go against the majority flow here but here are my observations on your thread:


Firstly, I do understand where your husband is coming from. I do not think that he is unreasonable in enforcing boundaries and expecting you to stay away from potential hazardous situations (see my next point).

I do not believe that there are such things as real opposite sex "friends" (very rare) unless one of them is gay. As opposite sexes get "closer" thoughts come round to sex especially in the minds of males.

It is clear, even from the little that you have written, that this "guy" has an unhealthy interest in you and the good old gut of your husband has picked up on this.

The right thing to do, if you truly respected and loved your spouse, would be to understand his/her point-of-view and respect his/her requested boundaries. What your husband has asked you to do is respect some boundaries. That does not make him needy or insecure. Many (successfully and happily) married couples have a no opposite sex friends rule.

Even if he asked you not to go, you should discuss but if it is a real concern and deal breaker for him, you should find out why. If there is something "wrong" with him, then as a loving spouse you would want to help him get better, not bash him.

Which brings me to my second set of observations:


You are not going to like this, but you do come across as self-centred and controlling (not your husband, but you). You feel entitled to having him understand your situation, your career, your "freedom", your concerns with apparently little regard for his "feelings".

You have progressively increased your attack on your husbands character during the course of the thread (very noticeably) which should already tell you something. You started with overly concerned to needy to insecure and worse.

The advice you are being given by some here to ignore his requests or joining in with you in calling him insecure and controlling is potentially very hazardous to your marriage. And you are entertaining this. This together with the last point tells me that you are really ready to leave this marriage and are looking for reasons to do so. You have already set ultimatums and drawn an imaginary line which I do not think your husband is even aware of.

If you do not like your husband (let alone love him) then you should (for both of your sakes) just tell him that you want out (and then leave the marriage) before you eventually do put yourself in a cheating situation and eventually justify to yourself your crossing that boundary and then do so.

If on the other hand you do love your husband but are having trouble with understanding why he is imposing these boundaries, then discuss this with your husband and get help (real help).

Whatever you decide, I am sure you will make the right decision for you. Just try and also make the right decision for your husband too.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> I need to read the entire thread to see what else is going down, but wanted to point out that with THIS part above, he really was not out of line. There have to be boundaries, and there needs to be respect when one partner is not comfortable with something.


I think some people here are completely missing the whole issue here. 

The SO is not out of line at all. He reacted to the situation and made a ridiculous request. And he is justified to do so and by all means, allowed to express himself however he seems fit.

However, that is not the issue. The issue is that the OP _did not like his reaction._ Yes, there has to be boundaries in every relationship; but they aren't boundaries that are designed by one partner. The problem here is that this will not be the last time it happens and _if he gets away with it,_ it will set a precedent for more jealousy swayed 'boundaries.' The OP is not okay with this. And by accepting his boundary 'of not being in a picture' will only backfire on her. Before she knows it, she will have to X all male specie out of her life, and I think she is not 'okay' with that. Which is completely reasonable. 

My mother's friend was in the same situation like millions of other spouses who are now divorced. It got so bad for her that her husband made her sit on the side of the table in a restaurant that wasn't facing the entrance. He did not want her to 'watch other guys come in' because he wanted her full attention at the table. According to your theory, she should respect his feelings and do just that? Think again.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> Whatever you decide, I am sure you will make the right decision for you. Just try and also make the right decision for your husband too.


 I would normally agree with you but you are missing a very important piece of information. They are not married. They do not even live together. Upon review she now admits calling him her significant other was probably an overstatement, as he is really just a boyfriend to her. There are different boundaries for married people than there are for people that are only dating. Your entire post is based on married people boundaries (which I share with you) that do not apply to people that are only dating. If they were married I would agree with you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TRy said:


> How she acts on the trip with the other man will determine if there are date like situations. That is why he has asked for boundaries while she she is on this trip, but has not asked her not to go.


His boundary for the trip is just that she not stand near him in photos.

So if she lives by his stated boundary, she can have a wild fling with that guy... just as long as they are not together in a photo.

This is ridiculous beyond comprehension.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> OK I am probably going to go against the majority flow here but here are my observations on your thread:
> 
> 
> Firstly, I do understand where your husband is coming from. I do not think that he is unreasonable in enforcing boundaries and expecting you to stay away from potential hazardous situations (see my next point).
> .....


You missed some important points...

They are not married. They do not live together. They are only dating.


He has verbally/angrily abusive and physically violent about things on several occasions.


----------



## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

I think that this is a BUSINESS trip, paid for by research grants for the scientific study of HORSES. 

Any personal feelings need to be swept aside. This is her VOCATION, not a pleasure trip. 

Any pictures taken will be to prove or disprove theories based on HORSES, not people...

End of discussion...

That's what I'd tell lil ole Mr OP.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> His boundary for the trip is just that she not stand near him in photos.
> 
> So if she lives by his stated boundary, she can have a wild fling with that guy... just as long as they are not together in a photo.
> 
> This is ridiculous beyond comprehension.


 Really? Now you are just being silly. Just because the "not stand near him in photos" was the one boundary that she was contesting, does not mean that their other boundaries would not apply on this trip. For you to think otherwise "is ridiculous beyond comprehension".


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

TRy said:


> Really? Now you are just being silly. Just because the "not stand near him in photos" was the one boundary that she was contesting, does not mean that their other boundaries would not apply on this trip. For you to think otherwise "is ridiculous beyond comprehension".


I am not assuming, as some here seem to assume, that as soon as the OP gets on a trip she's going to have an affair with the guy who she hardly knows. She does not need some guy she's dating to put down boundaries telling her what she can and cannot do.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I am not assuming, as some here seem to assume, that as soon as the OP gets on a trip she's going to have an affair with the guy who she hardly knows. She does not need some guy she's dating to put down boundaries telling her what she can and cannot do.


Yes, having a full blown affair with this guy or any guy is a concern. But an even greater concern (due to its possibility) is the further entrenchment of an inappropriate relationship. 

There are some things --even on their own -- that just don't fit into an exclusive committed relationship. One of those things is acting around someone of the opposite sex that gets other people confused as to what kind of relationship you do have with your partner. Being on the shorter side of this equation I have experienced listed below at the hands of my partners’ so called female "friends"

1. Ex girlfriend asking my fiance to buy her some blue "bloomies" (ie underwear) because for her wedding she needed something blue (this was with my first husband and that's when I had that talk with him; of course, this was before we got married so he was keen to put some boundaries on this friendship)

2. Ex girlfriend wearing something that my fiancé once bought her when they were dating and bringing attention it to my attention (how else would I know this?)

3. closing a bar tab of GBP127 for her and her friends (who were not also his friends). This was with my (future current) husband and his special friend. One week later, he refused to buy a round when out with my friends even though he accepted a drink in one, citing to me that he did not want to be liked / used for his money. Oh really, now. _ And also, see how he let an incident with his special friend affect how he treated me?_

4. special friend asked about our dates –“i.e. did she spend the night?” and then advising my future husband to drop me because in her opinion, we were not having sex often enough.

And so on…..

The point here is that a partner wants to avoid the creeping factor that can occur when their other half wants to prove “what a great guy / gal” that friend is. My ex-husband went native often enough with the “you’re not trying hard enough to get along with her” routine that I knew this time around (with my current husband) that this was a boxing ring that I was not getting into.

Faded, if your boyfriend had started his own thread with his side of the story, I would tell him to do exactly what I did with my current relationship. At a point when I realized I was spending a lot of my tie with him (time = a valuable resource) but still being treated like a casual friend (I found a lot of receipts of when he spent money on her and her friends even when he knew that she was f^cking other guys), well, if he is going to give better treatment to someone he “doesn’t even like all that much”, I wanted to be that girl……. And then I could be like her and go f^ck and date other men like she does.

I am trying to look at it from a man’s point of view. As TRy says, your bf does not want to explain inappropriate pictures to his friends; he does not want to hear how your FB friend can do anything better than he does… whether it’s housework, joke telling, this serious hobby that you have…… I can tell you, that day that my future husband tried to wriggle out of buying a round, I was totally embarrassed. And believe me, he knows it now.

Perhaps the men here can catalogue better the embarrassing things that a girlfriend can do with her “special friend” that makes those men with a backbone simply opt out of the relationship.

FTR, there are men who do not tolerate male / female friendships. So your desire to continue to swim close to the edge will mean that you are limiting your choices. But don’t call these men controlling and insecure. They know what they want and they have the confidence to hold out for it. Which may be the one lacking element in your current boyfriend.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

TRy said:


> I would normally agree with you but you are missing a very important piece of information. They are not married. They do not even live together. Upon review she now admits calling him her significant other was probably an overstatement, as he is really just a boyfriend to her. There are different boundaries for married people than there are for people that are only dating. Your entire post is based on married people boundaries (which I share with you) that do not apply to people that are only dating. If they were married I would agree with you.





EleGirl said:


> You missed some important points...
> 
> They are not married. They do not live together. They are only dating.
> 
> ...


OK so can we agree that they are in an exclusive relationship ? As a possible precursor to marriage ? He is stating his boundaries very clearly yet he is being attacked for it. I still stand by what I said in that if this is a serious relationship then they need to agree on and respect each others boundaries. Else leave the relationship.

I don't get the impression that the OP is that serious then about this "boyfriend" and should tell him that he is just a boyfriend or FWB or whatever and let him decide if he wants to stay in this "relationship".

As for the violence bit, I didn't get that he is violent but if he is, then that is a separate issue and has nothing to do with his boundaries etc. If he is violent then she should leave anyway.

Anyway, OP has stated that she is just looking for opinions but I think that she already knew what she felt about this and is somehow looking for validation of her thoughts.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes, we are in a committed relationship (far more than casual friends and I treat him very well and am devoted) and yes he is very jealous. And insecure. He admits that openly, it's no secret. He can "set boundaries" all he wants. The problem is, his boundaries overstep my personal boundaries and are ridiculous and upsetting to me, and I can't in good conscience submit to those kind of restrictions. Maybe to some of you it's not crazy, and that is fine, but to me, and several other folks here, it IS. There are some people on here who are obviously jealous and insecure like he is, so they can sympathize and support him, and that's great. But, the treatment is beyond what is normal to a reasonable person and unfair to me. There is a lot of history of this, so that makes it hard for everyone to get the full picture. I don't ask anything like this of him. I am as relaxed and laid back about everything as I can be - no demands, no distrust, etc. I am trying to treat as I wish to be treated, but it is not working... lol

What wise said really hit it for me - "The issue is that the OP did not like his reaction. Yes, there has to be boundaries in every relationship; but they aren't boundaries that are designed by one partner. The problem here is that this will not be the last time it happens and if he gets away with it, it will set a precedent for more jealousy swayed 'boundaries.' The OP is not okay with this. And by accepting his boundary 'of not being in a picture' will only backfire on her. Before she knows it, she will have to X all male specie out of her life, and I think she is not 'okay' with that. Which is completely reasonable."


It's not the one request, it's what the request says about him and the future. Maybe I come across as selfish, and that's because now I am in self-protect mode because of what he has put me through. One example of the jealousy was me selling an iphone to a guy friend of mine and needing to drive over and drop it off. He freaked out and got angry and punched the stereo in his car and broke it, with me sitting right there. You tell me if that's normal and his boundaries are normal. Tons of more examples like this.

The question is, and seeing as it has gotten increasingly worse over time, and can I live with this. At the present time, the answer is no, I would not marry him without improvement, which he is trying, and likewise I am trying as well to "help" him without becoming an full-on abusive victim. I tried to be coy about it at first, just to get answers to that one particular question, but let me assure you, he is or was (trying very hard to have outburts anymore) abusive in the most classic way - he blames his bad behavior on me, that I cause him to do it (so classic) and he probably did become that way I am sure because his initial attempts to control me were not successful and I am still resisting. So he started putting on the heat even harder and I walked away. I am giving it one more chance - the sad thing is, I was VERY VERY serious about him, but as this behavior started coming to the surface, my hope that it will return to being a healthy, safe relationship has dwindled considerably and I have had to back off emotionally some for my own sanity. I have cried my eyes out so many times because of him treating me terribly and being abusive. But then it can be so good (as long as everything is going his way... typical abuser, a cycle... as soon as something comes up he doesn't like all hell breaks loose). 

Like someone said a few pages back, the better question is, why am I still with him! He has recently gone to therapy and it has helped. I think there were some underlying anger issues and that was driving some of it. Not that I have no problems myself! I'm sure I'm not always right at all. That's why I am here asking, to make sure of that, that I'm not being unreasonable. But, I think the compatibility is truly in question, and it could really be that he needs someone that will be a hermit, never talk to anyone, have no friends and so forth.  That's not me! I don't even have male friends that I "hang out with" without him. At all! Just long time friends that I speak with occasionally. All are married, too, and I know their wives. I don't think that's inappropriate at all. So it's not like I am really pushing it in any way and somehow making him insecure. 

If anything the discussion here has made me more worried that it won't work than that it will, but that is ok, I just need to be prepared. Bottom line is that he shouldn't be building himself up by taking away from me. IMO...


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> One example of the jealousy was me selling an iphone to a guy friend of mine and needing to drive over and drop it off. He freaked out and got angry and punched the stereo in his car and broke it, with me sitting right there. You tell me if that's normal and his boundaries are normal. Tons of more examples like this.


That's interesting because my husband told me that once he had loaned some comic books to his special friend. He finally got them back when her boyfriend dropped them by my husband's place and he was, in my husband's opinion, not he was not very friendly about it.

So maybe HER boyfriend didn't like this arrangement either.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I have cried my eyes out so many times because of him treating me terribly and being abusive. But then it can be so good (as long as everything is going his way... typical abuser, a cycle... as soon as something comes up he doesn't like all hell breaks loose).


Sounds like you are the one with the problem. why are you with an abuser?


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

There are a number of separate issues being discussed here and they seem to be coming out one at a time,

The first is the issue of boundaries with regard to opposite sex friends especially those that "like" your posts on Facebook and who seems to have jumped at the chance to travel (for "educational" reasons) with you to Europe while your bf is not there. I still stand by what I have said regarding this and do not consider his requests controlling.

Then the idea of him being insecure and overly jealous came up. And on this I responded with maybe you should help him with this instead of attacking him on a forum (that is if you love him).

Now, he is super violent and smashes car radios. This is dangerous and you should not be him.

Over the course of the thread, he has gotten progressively worse. You are "dead serious" about him but do not appear to like him !?!


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

Fact is, Faded. You've been the one prepared to flex your boundaries to be more accommodating. Sadly, he isn't. If you don't flex them to 'full compliance' with his boundaries, you'll get the sulks, the hissy fits, the violence and the "I'm hurt" card.

Single party flexibility is unfair and don't work. His inflexible boundaries produce the opposite of what he wants. They push you away rather than bind you to him.

I wouldn't tolerate a fraction of what you've endured already. You've tried to compromise,, he won't budge. He gets a credit for seeking therapy but if there's little or no change at home it's an ongoing battle that you don't need.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You should dump him. He is an abuser, and the only person who can fix him is him. I am sure he does have his qualities, but the fact is, he is putting you into a shell. He will tear you down, and he will act like a great guy sometimes, keeping you hooked on him. You keep falling for the bait. You have strong boundary skills, and you have a pattern showing the case. He has a pattern of being abusive, jealous, and a d1ck when things don't go his way. He throws a tantrum like a child, and doesn't have great self control. 

Your probably hanging around, hoping he will change, and grow. The fact is, he hasn't put the effort into it. You loving him will not change him. He has no incentive to change because you keep hanging around. Also for your emotional health, you have to escape his sphere of negativity.


----------



## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Geez, sounds like you are dating my ex.....

I agree that perhaps, no matter how hard it may be, that you might need to seriously evaluate if this is the right relationship for you to be in. You seem very intelligent, someone who is introspective and genuine. People like us (yes, me too) try to "self evaluate" so much that we sometimes ignore red flags, making them "our fault" too. I struggle myself with finding the fine line between being accountable for my own actions, feelings, and emotions, and recognizing that the problem, in fact, DOES lie with someone else. Or at the very least, there is an incompatibility between two people.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I am not assuming, as some here seem to assume, that as soon as the OP gets on a trip she's going to have an affair with the guy who she hardly knows.


 When I asked "If the OP goes on this trip, gets to know this other man better than she could on a dozen dates, decides that she likes him just like her best friend does, develops feelings for this other man (OM) but does not have sex with him on the trip, goes home and quickly breaks up with her SO, immediately starts dating the OM, and then has sex with the OM, she could do all this without breaking any of her weak boundaries. Would she be a cheater?" You directly answered this question with "No, she wouldn't be a cheater. She met someone else she liked better than the SO, was honest with herself and her SO, and moved on." This and not an affair is what the OP's boyfriend (ex-SO) is really worried about. When you put out an exaggerated straw man argument for the other side, you may win that false argument, but you are not fairly addressing the real issue.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Better to have someone who cares enough about you to try and enforce (perfectly understandable) boundaries rather than someone who gives you complete "freedom" to do as you please (as you seem to want) but also has not as much regard for the relationship. Such a person would also have "relaxed" boundaries and heaven forbid, lots of women who also "like" his posts and him in general. And then when there is a convention where one or the other of these female friends also attends is when you might get an inkling of what your bf is talking about.

Anyway, sounds like this is over (and the break up seems to be encouraged by many here). So, for the good of both of you, let him go find someone who understands him and who loves him (as he is) enough to work with him on his "insecurities" while respecting general boundaries like "no opposite sex" friends in isolation of him. Hopefully he will get anger management counselling, as, from what you have said, he needs it.

I would love to hear his side of this story too.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> Better to have someone who cares enough about you to try and enforce (perfectly understandable) boundaries rather than *someone who gives you complete "freedom" to do as you please (as you seem to want) but also has not as much regard for the relationship.* Such a person would also have "relaxed" boundaries and heaven forbid, lots of women who also "like" his posts and him in general. And then when there is a convention where one or the other of these female friends also attends is when you might get an inkling of what your bf is talking about.
> 
> Anyway, sounds like this is over (and the break up seems to be encouraged by many here). So, for the good of both of you, let him go find someone who understands him and who loves him (as he is) enough to work with him on his "insecurities" while respecting general boundaries like "no opposite sex" friends in isolation of him. Hopefully he will get anger management counselling, as, from what you have said, he needs it.
> 
> I would love to hear his side of this story too.


Sort of like her ex-husband...who cheated on her.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

samyeagar said:


> Sort of like her ex-husband...who cheated on her.


 The OP has repeatedly in this thread held out her ex-husband's weak boundaries as a glowing example for her current boyfriend to follow, never mind that he cheated on her. Somehow she does not see the issue in this.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

TRy said:


> The OP has repeatedly in this thread held out her ex-husband's weak boundaries as a glowing example for her current boyfriend to follow, never mind that he cheated on her. Somehow she does not see the issue in this.


Just to be clear, I am not suggesting anything SHE did led to him cheating. Just making the point that a persons own boundaries are often a good indicator of how they will act towards others.

He had weak boundaries in what he would put up with from her, sort of anything goes in what he would tolerate from her, and that is how he acted...anything goes.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fadedsmile said:


> He says that it is a realistic request and I should respect his wishes, and said *it will make or break our relationship if I do or don't comply with this*. We have very different views of this and it's causing a lot of disagreement.
> 
> Your thoughts?


Has a bit of a control issue, does he?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fadedsmile said:


> Yes, we are in a committed relationship (far more than casual friends and I treat him very well and am devoted) and yes he is very jealous. And insecure. He admits that openly, it's no secret. He can "set boundaries" all he wants. The problem is, his boundaries overstep my personal boundaries and are ridiculous and upsetting to me, and I can't in good conscience submit to those kind of restrictions. Maybe to some of you it's not crazy, and that is fine, but to me, and several other folks here, it IS. There are some people on here who are obviously jealous and insecure like he is, so they can sympathize and support him, and that's great. But, the treatment is beyond what is normal to a reasonable person and unfair to me. There is a lot of history of this, so that makes it hard for everyone to get the full picture. I don't ask anything like this of him. I am as relaxed and laid back about everything as I can be - no demands, no distrust, etc. I am trying to treat as I wish to be treated, but it is not working... lol
> 
> What wise said really hit it for me - "The issue is that the OP did not like his reaction. Yes, there has to be boundaries in every relationship; but they aren't boundaries that are designed by one partner. The problem here is that this will not be the last time it happens and if he gets away with it, it will set a precedent for more jealousy swayed 'boundaries.' The OP is not okay with this. And by accepting his boundary 'of not being in a picture' will only backfire on her. Before she knows it, she will have to X all male specie out of her life, and I think she is not 'okay' with that. Which is completely reasonable."


My DD24 dated a guy two years ago who started out seemingly nice. Until all the restrictions started showing up, one by one. No, you can't talk to your male friend you've known since you were 3 any more; he might hit on you. No, you can't get a massage if the masseuse is a male; he'll see your skin and want to screw you. No, you can't go out with your friends if I'm not there; some guy might hit on you.

On an on. By the time he kicked her out of his place because he found out that she'd made out with a guy before him, she was a basketcase. Second-guessing herself, blaming herself, afraid to upset him, giving up all her friends...Of course, a week later he told her she could apologize and come back. Thank God she was smart enough to see what had been happening, once she was away from it, and told him to go to hell.

But the effects lingered. Two years later, she finally started dating again, and she asked her new (amazing) guy if he'd be upset if she got a massage from a male masseuse and he just laughed and said why would I care about that?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fadedsmile said:


> If it continues, I will see my way out. Why? Because I don't enjoy it. It makes me feel bad, stressed, restricted and anxious. I have never felt like that in a relationship before, so I know it's not right. It's sad that he has pushed me far enough away with this sometimes ludicrous behavior that I am far enough out to cut the cord if there is a next time for this type thing. I don't think he even realized it but perhaps does now.


While he's getting his therapy, read this book. It might open your eyes a bit.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I don't have opposite sex friends in isolation of him. He knows everyone I talk to and is friends himself with some of them. Please read my posts and you would have seen that.

And thanks for the kind support for the cheating issue. (not) That totally devasted me and almost ruined my life, so I appreciate the empathy (not, again). 

Having less restrictions (let's face it, boundaries ARE restrictions, no?) doesn't keep someone from cheating. I had the same boundaries as my husband, yet I never cheated not one time. I never knew that he was talking to any other women. The men I would talk to on occasion were our mutual friends. He talked to them too! And they were all married and I am friends with their wives. I love there is so much demonization / assumption of evil going on here. lol Cheating was his wrong, not mine "for not keeping a tighter leash on him". What a silly thing to suggest. If someone is capable of cheating, it is a character / moral flaw, and you aren't going to stop them with any leash or "boundaries". I can see why people who suggest it's ok agree with my boyfriend's side. I don't intend to be on any sort of leash. That has nothing to do with committment and everything to do with control. Don't you see? Maybe some of you might want to take a look at yourselves as well before you come down on me so hard.

Of course I wasn't going to disclose the full extent of abuse in this relationship and get into all that at first, but it has come out over talking about it so you can get some background as to WHY I am resisting his control attempts so strongly. 

With the issue of dropping the phone off to someone - this is a person I have known for 20 years. Way before I knew my boyfriend, and who has treated me far better as a friend to boot if you want to be serious! But to get that crazy and start smashing things because you don't want me to drive by a long-time friend's house and hand him a phone? Get a damn grip!

Flying Dutchman, Mr. Fisty and GA HEART are all dead on. I said I WAS very serious about him until all this stuff cropped up. Of course, an abuser doesn't start out that way. I am in my last stages of hanging around so to speak. If we are incompatible, so be it. I, like GA HEART, would definitely not be with anyone here who is agreeing that this behavior is acceptable. Come on, everyone knows it's not. Even me. But I would know now we are just incompatible, and it's ok. That's why I am here, because I knew there was something wrong and that's why I have realized through the course of this thread how bad it really is. He is now actually seeking help so we shall see how it goes. But, can someone totally change entirely who they are, no, and is it fair for him to ask me to change so much, no... so yes, maybe there is someone out there that would tolerate it. I try to tell him what he is doing is not ensuring I will stay with him, but in fact ensuring that I will NOT. Hence being jealous and controlling usually is a self-fullfilling prophecy. You're afraid the person will leave and they do, but because of you and how you've treated them. But, they blame it on the "victim" (classic abuse).

Anyway, I think I have enough suggestions to know where to go from here and will save this so I can reread as I go along, to make sure I don't get off course. I know what's right and what I can tolerate and won't, so time will tell. Thank you all for your contributions and suggestions, I appreciate it and it's helped very much!


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

turnera said:


> My DD24 dated a guy two years ago who started out seemingly nice. Until all the restrictions started showing up, one by one. No, you can't talk to your male friend you've known since you were 3 any more; he might hit on you. No, you can't get a massage if the masseuse is a male; he'll see your skin and want to screw you. No, you can't go out with your friends if I'm not there; some guy might hit on you.
> 
> On an on. By the time he kicked her out of his place because he found out that she'd made out with a guy before him, she was a basketcase. Second-guessing herself, blaming herself, afraid to upset him, giving up all her friends...Of course, a week later he told her she could apologize and come back. Thank God she was smart enough to see what had been happening, once she was away from it, and told him to go to hell.
> 
> But the effects lingered. Two years later, she finally started dating again, and she asked her new (amazing) guy if he'd be upset if she got a massage from a male masseuse and he just laughed and said why would I care about that?


Yep, just a bit of a control problem and yep, this is him... maybe not quite this bad yet but only because I object strongly when he makes those comments. But he still thinks it and makes comments. 

Yet when he takes his daughter to dance lessons, or goes to her kid's birthday parties, there are single women there. Should I tell him not to go in the building or sit in the car because a woman might talk to him?  Oh brother. I would never ask that, but I can see him asking that of me in the reverse situation, probably making a kidding comment right now to test the waters and just to let me know he is thinking about it (which I don't even want him to... needs to change mindset) but like Freud said, "there are no jokes". Recently he has backed off because I think he knows I am at wits end about it and I am going to leave him if it doesn't stop.

My ex was like the second man you mentioned, which I would like to think is NORMAL! (Or should be!)


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

fadedsmile said:


> Yep, just a bit of a control problem and yep, this is him... maybe not quite this bad yet but only because I object strongly when he makes those comments. But he still thinks it and makes comments.
> 
> Yet when he takes his daughter to dance lessons, or goes to her kid's birthday parties, there are single women there. Should I tell him not to go in the building or sit in the car because a woman might talk to him?  Oh brother. I would never ask that, but I can see him asking that of me in the reverse situation, probably making a kidding comment right now to test the waters and just to let me know he is thinking about it (which I don't even want him to... needs to change mindset) but like Freud said, "there are no jokes". Recently he has backed off because I think he knows I am at wits end about it and I am going to leave him if it doesn't stop.
> 
> My ex was like the second man you mentioned, which I would like to think is NORMAL! (Or should be!)


From what little you have said about your ex, like your current boyfriend, I don't think he is normal either. Both seem to be at opposite extremes, and ultimately, you have found problems with each. I think most people's normal falls somewhere in between.

As I said, a person having such open boundaries as your ex husband, while it might feel great and freeing to you, often times there are other views, other behaviors that go hand in hand.

While there are always exceptions, I have a feeling most people are relatively consistent, and not hypocritical, and it would bear watching a person who is fine having such wide open boundaries for their partners, quite possibly holds themselves just as wide open.


----------



## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

Fadedsmile. I think some people on here go too far when it comes to boundaries. According to some you're not allowed to have any conversations with someone of the OS unless its work related. I work in a building where the majority of people are women. About 90%. We have friendly banter during the day. So is this not allowed? If they are married and start talking about what they were doing on the weekend and ask me what I was up to, should I be saying "You're a married woman. You shouldn't be having inappropriate conversations with men"?

What I class as worrisome is when someone is constantly in contact with an OS friend. Texting all the time, meeting up alone. Discussing problems in the marriage with them and never with you.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Yes, I agree. It's when there is an emotional connection that is formed too deeply that it becomes dangerous. And let's face it, we all know what and when that is. You know when you're crossing a true line. I don't see how just talking to people and being friendly and just basically social is "not allowed" when you're in a relationship. So I can only talk to another man if I don't have a boyfriend? Good lord. How unhealthy. 

To me, there are different relationship "levels" so to speak, to get technical about it. Talking to someone at work about how their weekend was does not put them on the same level of importance and intimacy as a boyfriend. It starts getting over the line when you start sharing problems, feelings and dreams. Things you normally only talk about with your bf or spouse. Or, if like someone said, you start sharing relationship problems, more private things. I am very aware of myself and would not allow that kind of connection to develop, because that is my job as a good partner to defend my relationship and keep everyone else at the lower level. You have to trust your spouse or whatever to do that. Otherwise, you don't trust them at all. It doesn't seem that hard to me. I don't need someone else to do the defending for me by locking me in a box, putting a leash on me or giving me all these boundaries of what I can and can't do. If I don't have enough self control and sense to not engage with someone I meet on the street then man, I am a real floozy!  As a matter of fact, if you get no attention from anyone ever, then I would think you'd be even more vulnerable to receiving attention when you DO get it. I have friends at work and personal friends and get "attention" (friendship kind) all the time. So I'm not thirsty for it. If you lock your spouse away, you're asking for it IMO. The first person they somehow get to talk to is going to be SO exciting because they are lacking in a need for socialization (an unmet need almost directly equals a weakness). People are social creatures by nature, like cows, horses, etc. You don't see a very happy single cow standing alone in a pasture do you? Doesn't mean the cow walking and interacting with the herd is crossing any boundaries...I would consider that pretty normal? 

A guy liking my posts on FB that I have no conversation with at all is hardly even on an acquaintance level! Let alone considered a 'friend' even. I agree that it is not out of the question that my boyfriend would say, "hey, who is this person and it's making me uncomfortable" (in a polite and non-accusing manner, signifiying trust and not suspicion of wrong doing on my part). I don't have any issue with that at all. 

I know what I can and can't do that protects or harms my relationship. I think that's also called maturity? I don't need a parent, I need a boyfriend.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I try to smile and at least say hi to every person I pass, unless they're otherwise engaged. I have a saying at my desk that says 'everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.' My personal goal to make as many people's lives as possible a little bit rosier, ya know? Doesn't mean I'm trying to start anything with them.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

turnera said:


> I try to smile and at least say hi to every person I pass, unless they're otherwise engaged. I have a saying at my desk that says 'everyone you meet deserves to be greeted with a smile.' My personal goal to make as many people's lives as possible a little bit rosier, ya know? Doesn't mean I'm trying to start anything with them.


See, I am the same way as this. Just because I smile and talk to someone doesn't mean I am trying to get into a relationship. I find it extremely off-putting that guys are pompous enough to seemingly think any girl that smiles or talk to them, wants them. Kindness is mistaken for flirting too often these days. I don't want to have to be a rude jerk to people because my boyfriend doesn't want any guy thinking that cause I smiled and was friendly, I want them. Or that they may want me. Because I don't, and trust says that he should know that. I worry about ME. Not what they think or want. It doesn't affect me in any way.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Faded, what were the circumstances of your ex's cheating?

Boundaries to me are just a regular observance that you care about someone.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

NextTimeAround said:


> Boundaries to me are just a regular observance that you care about someone.


Unless the person setting up the boundaries does so out of insecurity and the need to control the relationship.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> Faded, what were the circumstances of your ex's cheating?
> 
> Boundaries to me are just a regular observance that you care about someone.


I found out that he was having a relationship with a girl for 4 years that I knew nothing about (never heard of the person, etc). He claims it was only via texting, but really.... then I found out he was likely stopping by another girl's place on the way home from work to have sex - note I had to beg him for it, so it wasn't for my lack of satisfying him - no proof but texts at the proper times that would indicate this. This goes back apparently even 8 years or more according to "friends" who told me they heard a rumor he was messing around with her (thanks, guys). To me, his boundaries with others were perfectly acceptable because I didn't even know about these women.

IMO, if you even have to "create boundaries" for your significant other, there is already a problem. Any emotionally healthy person understands what is right and wrong. If you have to tell me what I can and cannot do to satisfy you, you are controlling me. That is the basic definition of control itself, for those here who may not think they are controlling:

CONTROL

[kuh n-trohl] 

verb (used with object), controlled, controlling. 
1. 
to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command. 

If you are restraining me from doing normal things, directing me to do or not do certain things, it is control. Plain and simple. Again, I say that if you have a healthy relationship, you can trust that the person is going to behave in a certain way in any situation.


TRUST

[truhst] 

noun 
1. 
reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence. 

2. 
confident expectation of something; hope. 

If you truly trust someone, you don't need to control them. You know they will do what you expect without fail. In my case, I want to be trusted to maintain appropriate relationships with the opposite sex regardless of the situation. Telling me what I can and can't do is CONTROLLING.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I don't see how just talking to people and being friendly and just basically social is "not allowed" when you're in a relationship. So I can only talk to another man if I don't have a boyfriend? Good lord. How unhealthy.
> 
> To me, there are different relationship "levels" so to speak, to get technical about it. Talking to someone at work about how their weekend was does not put them on the same level of importance and intimacy as a boyfriend. It starts getting over the line when you start sharing problems, feelings and dreams. Things you normally only talk about with your bf or spouse. Or, if like someone said, you start sharing relationship problems, more private things. I am very aware of myself and would not allow that kind of connection to develop, because that is my job as a good partner to defend my relationship and keep everyone else at the lower level.


 I agree with what you said above completely. I think that what often gets lost on these boards are the "technical" parts of the discussion. When people talk about boundaries on opposite sex friends (OSF), most are not defining an opposite sex co-worker that you chat with at work as an OSF, at least I am not. Most are talking about what you said well, "It starts getting over the line when you start sharing problems, feelings and dreams".


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

"Do whatever you like, except cheat.", seems like a pretty good boundary to me.

Not understanding how that's a 'weak' boundary,, or not even recognisable as a boundary,, yet "Don't have your picture taken with that guy." is somehow acceptable and more readily recognised (as 'strong').

All of the BF's boundaries scream "I don't trust you!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> See, I am the same way as this. Just because I smile and talk to someone doesn't mean I am trying to get into a relationship. I find it extremely off-putting that guys are pompous enough to seemingly think any girl that smiles or talk to them, wants them. Kindness is mistaken for flirting too often these days. I don't want to have to be a rude jerk to people because my boyfriend doesn't want any guy thinking that cause I smiled and was friendly, I want them. Or that they may want me.


 I agree with this too. My wife is a thin, attractive, young looking, well educated, friendly person that always smiles, and I would not want her to be any other way. That is why I married her. And like you, many men take her smile and friendly personality to mean that she is interested in them when she is not. Our mutually agreed upon OSF boundaries help us deal with this, without making her become someone that she I and do not want her to be. Having weak boundaries would not work for us, but neither would unreasonable ones. Fortunately, my wife and I have a compatible view on boundaries, which is why we have been happily married for so long.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> "Do whatever you like, except cheat.", seems like a pretty good boundary to me.
> 
> Not understanding how that's a 'weak' boundary,, or not even recognisable as a boundary


 The problem with have this simple boundary as the only boundary, is that many people that are in an emotional affair (EA) do not think that they are cheating.


----------



## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

fadedsmile - all of your posts seem to be defending your feelings and beliefs about boundaries and control. From what i've read here, your bf is just asking you not to be in pictures with guy who was pursuing you on Facebook... and pursuing you he was. It is not up to your BF to control you by telling you not to go on this trip which this OM seems to be intent on going on... where you will be at... the woman he was, is, pursuing.

Seems to me that you are the one who has boundary and control issues... as a matter of fact, it seems to me that you do not really care about your BF "real" feelings. He asked you not to be in pictures, but what he really is thinking is, I would be more comfortable if he (or you) weren't there for pictures to even happen.

I dont see your relationship lasting very long. Good chance it will end once you return because you will not be able to take his passive aggressive behavior about the trip.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

TRy said:


> The problem with have this simple boundary as the only boundary, is that many people that are in an emotional affair (EA) do not think that they are cheating.


That may be true - anyone can break your trust - but no less true is that many people in EAs are in them because they can't communicate effectively with their partners,,, particularly if those partners have repeatedly shattered their confidence in expressing themselves by throwing hissy fits and breaking things every time they have a friendly interaction with another guy/gal.

Faded is reaching out - not for an EA - but because her feelings are being negated by the BF who's prioritising his own. EAs begin the same way.

If your partner can come to you and say "That mechanic/nurse was hot." without you throwing a wobbly, they're more likely to tell you when a work colleague is coming on too strong. When they can tell you stuff they don't seek out other people to tell it to.

Neither boundary will save you from a cheater,, but restrictive boundaries will cause restricted partners to express themselves to others, which might develop into an EA.

Hence, I prefer the less restrictive approach /boundaries.
NOBODY likes to be oppressed/controlled. They'll seek an escape route.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> That may be true - anyone can break your trust -


 Which is why you have boundaries that help them not go down that path.



Flying_Dutchman said:


> but no less true is that many people in EAs are in them because they can't communicate effectively with their partners


 That does not give them an excuse to cheat, and emotional affairs are cheating. If there are issues in your marriage, you can either put your time and energy into working on fixing those issues, or you can put them into cheating. No one is perfect and all marriages will have there ups and downs. Its how you deal with the less than perfect downs that determine if you are a faithful partner or not.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

TRy said:


> Which is why you have boundaries that help them not go down that path.
> 
> That does not give them an excuse to cheat, and emotional affairs are cheating.


My point is, restrictive boundaries PUSH them down that path, not steer them away from it.

NO boundaries,, restrictive or lax, excuse cheating. This we agree on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Flying_Dutchman said:


> My point is, restrictive boundaries PUSH them down that path, not steer them away from it.


 Thus the fine art of reaching mutually agreed upon reasonable boundaries, that are not too weak or too restrictive. It helps to have a partner that shares your views on what is reasonable.



Flying_Dutchman said:


> NO boundaries,, restrictive or lax, excuse cheating. This we agree on.


 Agreed.


----------



## Flying_Dutchman (Oct 29, 2014)

TRy said:


> Thus the fine art of reaching mutually agreed upon reasonable boundaries, that are not too weak or too restrictive. It helps to have a partner that shares your views on what is reasonable.


If the fine art of negotiation is practised without smashing the car stereo,,, I heartily concur.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree too! Share the love!! We have reached a happy place. Lol


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, I believe that you are making the assumption that boundaries are imposed by one's SO.

What is the case (and what should be the case) is that these boundaries should come from within you. Your bf stated his and what he sees as appropriate and inappropriate behaviour. If the two of you do not have shared or common boundaries then you have a problem. It is not the case that these boundaries are being forced on you. You either share his views or you don't. If you don't then you either work it out or bail. I, and many people who have experienced the lack of certain boundaries as a recipe for trouble, happen to agree with these boundaries.

Lets look at some of them:


Opposite sex friends in isolation of your SO: It doesn't matter if your bf "knows" these friends such as your current friend that happens to be travelling to Europe with you and who "likes" your stuff on FB. If they are your friends and you spend any amount of time and emotion on them, it can lead to bad things - no matter if you have known him since childhood or just met him. Unless he's gay (and from what I have seen here, sometimes even that doesn't stop trouble). An understandable boundary.

Somebody else mentioned wives not getting massages from men. No matter how professional these men are (unless they are gynos or gay), there is always an element of sexuality if a woman is naked (under a sheet) being massaged by a heterosexual (and lets be honest, fit) man. Again, an understandable boundary.

Entertaining flirtatious remarks (commonly known as "fishing exercises") and not shutting them down immediately. Again many wives see themselves as naturally flirtatious and don't like to be restricted in any social environment. Nevertheless, this also often leads to trouble.

And I can go on and on. The point is that if you truly love and understand your spouse, these boundaries should come naturally to you even if you think he or she doesn't really care. However, if you put yourself and your needs first, then there is a strong chance that you are not really in love with this person.

Insecurity is a different matter and he probably needs help with that and support from someone who loves him.

Violence and anger is again different and needs even more help and could be potentially dangerous to you, and that is why he should get help or split up with you.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

And this is exactly why you don't date jealous people.

Jealous people via (half the posters in this topic) cause stress.. and stress kills. Big time. The SO has given her a set of instructions to take onto the trip with her and if she doesn't follow it word by word, it will either make or break the relationship. If she doesn't follow his instructions, then he will stress her out even more over this issue. If she does follow his instructions, his 'do not take pictures with guys who like your facebook posts "BOUNDARY"' just set the precedent for what is to come. 

And why is this all even happening? Let me tell you. Because her SO thinks she's going to sleep with every guy that likes/comments on her facebook posts. He thinks that this guy is going to 'wow' himself right into her pants. And he refuses to be that guy who let's his SO sleep with other guys right under his nose.

Why else would he set this 'picture taking' boundary? Who's to say she won't sleep with some RANDOM guy? I am surprised he is more worried about a guy you could careless for, rather than an attractive guy who is better than your SO in every shape and form. 

And this is why heart attacks are the number one killers.


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

wise said:


> And this is exactly why you don't date jealous people.
> 
> Jealous people via (half the posters in this topic) cause stress.. and stress kills. Big time. The SO has given her a set of instructions to take onto the trip with her and if she doesn't follow it word by word, it will either make or break the relationship. If she doesn't follow his instructions, then he will stress her out even more over this issue. If she does follow his instructions, his 'do not take pictures with guys who like your facebook posts "BOUNDARY"' just set the precedent for what is to come.
> 
> ...



Don't understand why everyone is harping on the picture taking with FB boy by her side. He doesn't want this fellow encouraged by sidling up to him or vice versa in photos. What he is really saying is "I understand you're going on this trip, please don't encourage this guy by standing next to him in photos etc.". The response is "Oh no, there goes my freedom! I will survive! Women of the world unite!" etc. instead of "I understand sweetheart. You don't have to worry about it. I will try and avoid him as much as I can and will slap him down if he tries anything."


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

manfromlamancha said:


> *Don't understand why everyone is harping on the picture taking with FB boy by her side. *He doesn't want this fellow encouraged by sidling up to him or vice versa in photos. What he is really saying is "I understand you're going on this trip, please don't encourage this guy by standing next to him in photos etc.". The response is "Oh no, there goes my freedom! I will survive! Women of the world unite!" etc. instead of "I understand sweetheart. You don't have to worry about it. I will try and avoid him as much as I can and will slap him down if he tries anything."


I agree. He is offering Faded a strategy in how to non verbally get his jets to cool, so to speak.

I think non verbal communication is far more powerful than verbal anyway. My experience is that you can get a guy to agree to being "just friends" but if you continue to behave like a girlfriend, that's the message that he takes in.

I also noticed this with my exH. he used to race me to the phone (before the days of cellphones) and then stay on the phone for 30 minutes before passing it to me. And sometimes not because the other person was already talked out. But guess what kind of message he delivered to all my female friends....... no wonder several of them became dismissive of me after that....

I think a lot of women miss the power of nonverbal communication .... or pretend to in any case........ when it's their turn to communicate..... Just because I show cleavage and wear a tight skirt that outlines ....... does not mean...... whatever ..... Just because I come over your house at midnight does not mean....... Just because I dirty dance with you on the dance floor doesn't mean........ oh dear, 

and like in this case, potentially, just because I get boozed up with you at the bar, late one night, let you put your arms around me while we cheez for the camera DOES NOT MEAN ....... oh, I don't know.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Keep in mind that I have no relationship or contact with this FB person - he is not even a "friend"! I have shut him down. I de friended him and have never had any contact with him except when he showed up at my friend's events because THEY are friends. Which is fine, btw. I don't have to avoid situations where there may be other people. Lol

And I agree with Wise (again). I have been with very, very, very few men (a rarity in this world) and so there is literally NO chance that I would do anything with this person or any other without the proper amount of relationship building first. Which I have no intention of doing. Some people are forgetting that others still do have morals and I am one of them.

He doesn't think I am going to "do" anything with this person. He just doesn't like him getting any attention around me (which is textbook jealousy and its ok to feel it, but not ok to be irrational about it). I agree that at least half of the folks hear should read the definition of jealousy and controlling relationship (Google it) and you might be shocked that it's not ok to do some of these things suggested. 

I am worried about continuing to validate this person's unrealistic / unhealthy feelings. It can only mean further ridiculous controlling requests and instead of just walking away like I know I should have, I AM trying to help him develop a more healthy relationship and ways of thinking. The stress IS intense sometimes and that's how I know something not right is happening. 

I set my own boundaries, called right and wrong. If his don't mesh with mine, it's just incompatibility - like a republican and democrat trying to get along. Neither one is wrong perhaps but they will never see eye to eye.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

wise said:


> The SO has given her a set of instructions to take onto the trip with her and if she doesn't follow it word by word, it will either make or break the relationship. If she doesn't follow his instructions, then he will stress her out even more over this issue. If she does follow his instructions, his 'do not take pictures with guys who like your facebook posts "BOUNDARY"' just set the precedent for what is to come.


This reminds me of my old fiance. We started dating when I was 16 and he was 19. By the time I was 18, and he was in college, he told me that I wasn't being 'mature' enough for him. I was embarrassing to be around his friends. So he was going to give me 6 months to get my act together, and at the end of 6 months, he'd decide if I'd improved enough to get to keep dating him. I'm ashamed to say I was at that point crying and begging him to give me another chance. That's how far he had beaten me down in 2 years. 

That's what she has to look forward to if she allows that stuff to continue.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

I stopped posting on this site for reason that aren't relevant here.

l lurk here to learn and this thread has compelled me to post as I find myself in a similar situation. Mt situation isn't all that different than the OP's. 

I am with a wonderful young woman. she is amazing in so many ways. but one thing we do struggle with is this "loose boundry" stuff. she, much like the OP finds it acceptable to have many OSF relationships. I feel like a fool harping on her and warning her about the intentions of other men. and she has agreed in some instances that these relationships have gotten out of hand. a new guy at her work, who she was "pleasant" to quickly developed a thing for her. one day she was home sick....and he was texting her that he was on his "way to her house to come take care of her"...... I was like WTF????

the scary thing is, she has been raped once, then a couple years later out with co-worker and clients, was 'ruffied' and woke up in the morning at someone elses home, having NO IDEA how she got there or what happened for half the night. yet, still even after all this, she thinks that I am out of line being "jealous" or "laying down the law" when I warn her about the intentions of other men, or complain that attention from other males detacts from OUR relationship.

I belive there are men out there capable of having an appropriate relationship with women. just that in todays times, it seems like that is becoming few and far between. 

I'm not sticking up for the OP BF, I think its obvious some of his concerns are valid, but he has a lot of growing up to do and the way he has handled himself deservers her dumping him. I mean seriously, smashing stuff has no place in a relationship.

what I see here is a simple power struggle where neither person is capable (willing)of meeting the person needs and or seeing their viewpoint. not much love there in any case.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree some of his concerns are valid and I have no problem making him feel comfy and keeping normal boundaries, but he has shown many, many excessively controlling and jealous behaviors that are ruining our relationship and I have told him this. 

But like Tunera said, over time this can be severely damaging. I am happy to protect our relationship as anyone would or should but this goes far far beyond that.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Also, there is never any regard for how any of this makes me feel. It's his feelings come first and mine don't matter.


----------



## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I agree that at least half of the folks hear should read the definition of jealousy and controlling relationship (Google it) and you might be shocked that it's not ok to do some of these things suggested.


 When you say "at least half of the folks", that is another way of saying a majority of folks. If you came here to see if your boyfriend's request about the photos was completely out of line for the majority of people, you now have your answer. You do not have to agree with it of course, but you now have the answer to the main question of your initial post.

In discussing your boyfriend there are really two issues. One being the initial issue of the trip, and the other being the overall issues that you shared with us later. I will at first discuss the original issue of the trip. Mixing of the two issues only blurs the discussion. Besides, if the other issues are major, the trip issue becomes moot. That is why the tide turned a bit in the discussion when you started to bring in these other issues.

You know the other man (OM) was into you enough that you yourself were uncomfortable with it and put an end to it. You also must know that being able to get to know you better without your boyfriend being around was probably a major factor in the OM going on this trip with you. When you factor in that your best friend is such a close a friend to this OM that there must be a least a chance that you too could learn to like him on this trip, I find it puzzling that you cannot understand why your boyfriend would be concerned. It is OK to feel insecure when you have reason to.

On his other non-trip issues, we have only your perspective, but if he indeed scares you with violent outbursts, no matter the reason that is not acceptable. There is no reason for a mature adult to do such things. I have never given my wife a reason to be afraid of me, because that is the last thing that I want her to feel about me. In fact I want her to feel the exact opposite way toward me. I want her to feel safe with me. I should be the one that she turns to when she is afraid, and not be the cause of her fear.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

If this were a one-off deal, of COURSE you should understand his feelings and care for them and do everything you can to keep from causing him damage. Well, you should always care for your partner's wishes; we all know that. But only you know if it's one in a string of such attempts at control.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Correct! If it were just one request, I could see that. And I agree it is not a comfortable situation.... But how he has acted in the past is the issue, that this is just one of many serious controlling attempts. Honestly it has been far worse than this! Lol


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

manfromlamancha said:


> Don't understand why everyone is harping on the picture taking with FB boy by her side. He doesn't want this fellow encouraged by sidling up to him or vice versa in photos. What he is really saying is "I understand you're going on this trip, please don't encourage this guy by standing next to him in photos etc.". The response is "Oh no, there goes my freedom! I will survive! Women of the world unite!" etc. instead of "I understand sweetheart. You don't have to worry about it. I will try and avoid him as much as I can and will slap him down if he tries anything."


It is an _great_ thing that many women do not operate how you see fit. Just because you believe that women should be restricted to the commands of their SO, doesn't necessarily means everyone else shares your belief. 

Whatever happened to "Have a great time babe. Take plenty of pictures, stay out of trouble, and call me when you can so I know your safe." Oh, wait, that still happens because not every man on this planet is a self-centered control freak. 

This trip is suppose to be about her and her enjoying herself with friends. But of course, the SO has to turn the whole situation into himself and his feelings. Instead of handling the situation like a man, he handled it like a boy. "I don't want him stealing attention from you" is "I am paranoid that you are going to cheat on me" dumbed down. His jealousy has already showed a lack of his confidence and the OP now see's that. 

I have been on the other side in my single days. I used my appearance and looks to control plenty of girls. I know how this works based on research and firsthand knowledge. However, when I am in a relationship, I am cool, calm, and strong. Ever dated a bartender before? That is by far the ultimate test. I dated one for two strong years who probably had over 1,000 guys throw her a phone number. She acted one zero of them because she has morals. Not because I told her so but because she loved me and wanted to be with me. Confidence won here over. I am still with her today; however, she no longer bar tends because she moved up in the world. A guy like OP's boyfriend would have never lasted. She would have thrown him on his ass after a week.

So many hypotheticals being thrown around. What if she gets friendly? What if he tries to come onto her? What if he and she? What if she and he? In essence, the real hypotheticals should be: What if she gets lost? What if some stranger tries to kidnap her? What if she falls off something and breaks her leg? Those are real situations that can happen at anytime; forget this nonsense about some idiot guy who was already shot down. He should be hoping that she comes back on one piece, safe and sound.. instead of hoping she doesn't sleep with other men.

It is true that some guys do not know how to quit; however, a lot of women know how to handle themselves. OP seems like a very reasonable woman and her SO is a fool to not trust her.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

God bless you, wise. Your name is most fitting. Good god I wish I could transplant your brain into his. My ex would have said "have a great trip" but this one is ruining the trip before it even starts.

He has just about ruined other trips for me as well. Being demanding about texting back quickly and if I don't because I am busy at the moment he flies off the handle. Needs attention. All the time, I guess. If he isn't around, he causes drama and "gets mad" so then I am stuck trying to appease him, and this ensures I am texting with him so he knows no one else has my attention. It's just now occuring to me. And yes, I have realized a lot from this thread. Not that I am always right, that there are things I can work on, but also what is truly reasonable since he is trying his best to cloud my judgement with his pushy behavior. 

Wise, please clone yourself like 15,000 times. The women of the world would thank you!! Haha!


----------



## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

This is not a question of women operating how I see fit. It has been proven on this site alone (let alone statistics etc) that OSF can lead to bad situations in a marriage. The OP's bf probably has seen this first hand himself. Which is why he is concerned about FB boy. Standing up for one's relationship and asking one's SO (gf) to help him by not encouraging predators is the action of a man not a boy! Boys normally don't have the courage or commitment to do this and hide behind "well I'm liberal enough to let this pass" until it creeps up and bites them in the a$$.

Now the OP feels that he has controlling issues, then she should leave the relationship. Simple, no ?

She has come here and sought opinions and she got some. Some of us have seen this happen time and time again and some were lucky enough (in a way) to not have seen this. Wise's gf was a good person and didn't succumb to temptation. Great! Still, tempting fate is never a good thing to do. Had she succumbed, he would have learned a different lesson about OSF in a relationship. 

50% of marriages end up in divorce in the USA. A great many of them start out as having OSF's and poor boundaries. This is as close to fact as possible. Taking precautions against this is not a bad thing and while it may seem controlling, is far better than dealing with the consequences of not being clear about one's own boundaries.

The OP has said that her SO is also insecure and violent. Two separate issues. I cannot see the insecurity without further info. Judging from what he has asked for, he is reasonable. I do not think that he said not to have a good time or not to call him when she got there. Instead he said don't encourage this a$$hole. Even the OP has said that he doesn't believe that she will do anything wrong.

As for the violent bit, I have already said that is something she should be concerned about.

Again, it very much looks like OP has decided that she wants out and I guess, is looking for validation of her decision. And it probably is the right decision for her.

The only other course of action is to sit down with her bf and go through his boundaries one by one with an open mind. If no agreement is reached then they have to agree to disagree and part ways. Or she understands his needs and wants and he understands hers and they work together on it. It seems from what she says that she has tried this and it didn't work.

I wonder how he would react if she told him that she wanted to break this off. I am not sure if he has even seen this coming.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

manfromlamancha said:


> I cannot see the insecurity without further info. Judging from what he has asked for, he is reasonable. I do not think that he said not to have a good time or not to call him when she got there. Instead he said don't encourage this a$$hole.


Except that she says he has shown a pattern of such 'requests.'

OP, care to share other examples?


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

fadedsmile said:


> Correct! If it were just one request, I could see that. And I agree it is not a comfortable situation.... But how he has acted in the past is the issue, that this is just one of many serious controlling attempts. Honestly it has been far worse than this! Lol


I'm confused. Why are you with him if he is showing these severe controlling symptoms? Why are you asking if the people here would think it's controlling, if YOU feel that it is? 

Obviously, it's not making you happy to try and validate him all of the time. You've told him what you want. He's told you what he wants. You don't agree. What's next?


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

I wanted to add this as well that I read:



> ... The problem is, his boundaries overstep my personal boundaries and are ridiculous and upsetting to me, and I can't in good conscience submit to those kind of restrictions. Maybe to some of you it's not crazy, and that is fine, but to me, and several other folks here, it IS. There are some people on here who are obviously jealous and insecure like he is, so they can sympathize and support him, and that's great. But, the treatment is beyond what is normal to a reasonable person and unfair to me. There is a lot of history of this, so that makes it hard for everyone to get the full picture. I don't ask anything like this of him. I am as relaxed and laid back about everything as I can be - no demands, no distrust, etc. I am trying to treat as I wish to be treated, but it is not working...


I just don't get it. If it is THAT bad and you're just dating...I would say it's time to move on.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

I agree. We had a come to Jesus recently and he is trying and admitted he was out of line but remains to be seen if he can maintain a change. It will be very hard. This thread has really opened my eyes so I thank everyone for that. It helped me to step out and see what is really going on and why I feel so bad all the time. Because it's bad.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Trust your instinct.


----------



## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

I have found this thread in large part being an exercise in trickle truth. It now does seem as if this relationship will fail, and after it ends, I really think it would benefit the OP to take some time away from dating, and do some self exploration. Learn about boundaries, both hers, and others, and what types of behavior tend to go hand in hand with different ones, so she doesn't keep picking the wrong men for her.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

fadedsmile said:


> I agree some of his concerns are valid and I have no problem making him feel comfy and keeping normal boundaries, but he has shown many, many excessively controlling and jealous behaviors that are ruining our relationship and I have told him this.
> 
> But like Tunera said, over time this can be severely damaging. I am happy to protect our relationship as anyone would or should but this goes far far beyond that.


The elephant in the room is that there are four men introduced in this thread. Your SO is the only one that seems to have a clue. Your ex speaks for himself and you still aren't seeing that he neither loved or respected you. THIS IS NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM A CRITICISIM OF YOU.

Asperger boy is very odd never having a girlfriend. Has he had sex? Does he date and can't keep a girlfriend? There are quite a few Asperger victims in the coping with infidelity section, btw. They seem to have "boundary" problems

Your best friend who you suspect has boundary issues, has a husband that basically lets her go on dates and vacations with a single man. NO normal male would think twice about being cool with his wife, a single woman, and another man going on a trip to Europe together. This whole idea is jaw dropping. I fear he is in the same boat as your ex. Is he going to be happily playing while his wife is gone? Could there be more than friendship between your friend and this guy? How does your friend think about your boyfriend? Could she be playing Cupid?

Connecting your boyfriend's angry outbursts and this trip is out of bounds. If he cant control himself he isn't relationship material. The picture taking thing is just grasping at a straw. The woman he is in love is going to Europe without him. She is going with a single man. Europe is romantic. There is no one to keep a protective eye out. There will be plenty of drinking I would think, sight seeing, bonding, clubbing, parties, etc. and he has to sit on the sideline and watch this. You are definitely putting him in his place.

I am not an overly jealous person, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck either. 1/3 of men and women cheat. 70% of men and women, in one study, admit they would have an affair if they knew they wouldn't get caught. If I were your friends husband, her stuff would be moved out by the time she got back. I doubt you are the only one that is suspicious of her morals. Even worse, if I were her, I would severely doubt my husbands feelings for me.

I would also be done with you for going on a trip with these particulars. In your defense, you have no clue, as with most women, how men think and their motives.

It would be great to hear your boyfriend's side of this. He seems to be hanging on by a thread to this relationship. What does his counselor say about your trip? Does he have a violent history? Is he acting out of character because he doesn't feel he is getting his point across. (I am not condoning what you are describing.)

I notice a different take on this by posters that I see in the infidelity section and those that I don't see there except for two lady posters that have shocked me with their reaction.


----------



## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

I got frustrated with this thread, because it's ended up a lot like a political discussion: agree with me or you're wrong. 

faded...you're grappling with something that usually ends relationships in the dating stage. Meaning, major differences in what the relationship should look like to each person. If you were married, the advice would be different. But you're not. I couldn't continue forward with someone who was so different from me in regards to this. And honestly, it doesn't seem like you came here looking for advice as much as coming to have your view validated. Nothing wrong with that, but it tends to create circular discussions that never end. 

It cracks me up when I read sweeping generalizations about how anyone with OSF boundaries must be a controlling, insecure whackjob. That's like saying anyone without them must be a cheating, lying SOB. It's ridiculous. Is my advice better because my wife and I have boundaries in place in our marriage, or is the person whose only boundary with their SO, "Just don't cheat and we're cool," truly the enlightened one? 

The "right" thing has nothing to do with boundaries or how many OSF friends you have or what kind of vacations you want to take. The right thing is for two people in a committed relationship to be open and transparent about what their expectations are. If you don't like what you hear, and you're not married, what is the point of beating each other over the head with views that are so drastically different? Love it, accept it, or leave it. For the most part, people don't change.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

fwiw, our 'adopted' son has Aspergers. He's 24. He's never had a girlfriend. He's 'almost' normal but not quite, if you know what I mean. Lots of female friends, no one who will look at him like boyfriend material, because he's just a little 'off.' But he's a wonderful person, would never hurt a fly, and fun to be around. But yes, he can become interested in something to a point that we'd find weird. It's just what people on the autism spectrum do.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

It's easy to form opinions on what this trip will be like - it's not romantic. We are not sight seeing. We did this same type of trip last year. There is an agenda for each day, and we are picked up by vans and escorted to different places. It starts at 8am and last year sometimes we weren't done til 9pm. There isn't partying, I don't drink AT ALL and not a lot of alone time so to speak. So, it is very easy for me to keep space with this person. Last year there were people in the program that I didn't hardly talk to. At any rate, all the situations you describe just show you have the same jealous attitude and viewpoint, whereas I am in line with what wise posted. He is a man so you can't tell me there aren't other people who see it the same way. Jealousy is not love!!

There is no trickle truth here. It was just intended as a single question without bearing dirty laundry, that ended up being useful background to help people judge and make suggestions. 

At any rate, plain and simple is that we have different ideas and opinions and also he has some of his own issues so we shall just see how it goes. Thanks for helping open my eyes and yes, I need to find someone compatible - my ex husband has his own demons as we all do, and just because you aren't jealous and controlling doesn't mean you don't care. If fact, it means quite the opposite.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Ps it is my understanding from what my friend says, the other person with Apsergers (which isn't a bad thing of course! Just thought may be relevant) is about 8 years younger than me. He is in his late 20s. She said he has never had a girlfriend and has never had sex. If that helps everyone understand the "threat" a bit better.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Tunera, this is EXACTLY how this person is. Gets along well but seems to always be in the "friend zone". Seems very respectful otherwise.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

FOB, that is my view exactly and thanks for the input. Him trying to beat me into submission of his ways and views is only destroying our relationship. He just can't see it or couldn't until he claims he can now. 

Sorry for all the posts but I don't know how to edit on my phone lol.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Jealousy is just another tool God/evolution gave us to protect our families. Families that, I might add, have come under disastorous attack by so called progressive thought in the last few decades.

Women/mothers and children have suffered most under this onslaught. Divorce and single mother numbers are at record highs. Everytime you turn around there is another article about why men are refusing to marry.

You've only given two examples of your boyfriend's jealousy. It seems most believe he's right about your trip and way over the top in beating his radio. Has he had other violent outbursts that scared you?


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Ha, thanks faded but fortunately, there are plenty of men who aren't jealous control freaks and use their obsessive behavior as a means of 'protecting their relationship'. I know plenty of them. 

It is funny how out of hand these threads get. So many assumptions. So many hypotheticals. It seems that a lot of people on here do not even trust you. They think because you are going on some "romantic spring break party trip" you are just bound to cheat on your boyfriend. They already are assuming that you are like all the other women that cheat because you have an issue with jealous swayed boundaries. Although, in fact, no one here knows you. It is just advice of hypotheticals with nothing plausible enough to make an issue of. 

Women are just sooo delusional, aren't they? Every time a woman goes on vacation that (like the OP stated, involves no drinking/partying/romance), every single one of them are just bound to cheat. Women have no morals and they act before they think. They have no idea what the single guy is trying to do.. they just fall right onto his di*k!!! 

Give me a break. Women, just like men, know exactly what they are doing and they know EXACTLY what is going on around them. 

And then more speculations that the SO is justified in controlling her. She did not hide anything from him. He did no discover this OM all on his own. She is not lying about the whole situation to him. She did what felt necessary and defriended the guy. She has been truthful all along. You couldn't ask for any more. So they why is he stressing? Is it because he lacks self confidence and thinks she will cheat on him? If you guessed both; well then, you are correct.

Moral of the Story = Not all women cheat. Your statistics say 1/3 and 70% of people would if they could. Do your statistics speak for the whole world because no one ever surveyed me.... And besides, 30% would not if they could and 2/3's do not (out of whom was surveyed); therefore, it's safe to say OP falls into the category? Yeah? Or no, because she's delusional to single guys? Lol.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There is a difference in controlling, the word used most by cheaters to gaslight their spouses and boundaries.

Speculation is integral to these threads since limited amounts of information are available.

For example, why would a guy break his radio over a trip to deliver a telephone but be ok with a trip to Europe? Is my math right, there are still eleven hours a day of free time there? Yet he makes a big deal about pictures with this guy? Little about his thread makes a lot of sense unless more examples are given.

On the face of it, Op should have bolted when the radio was busted. Otoh, I would be shocked if any man I know would be ok with his wife or girlfriend going on a three way trip with another woman and a single man.

The OM has already shown an inapropriate attraction and unwanted attention to Op. He has bested her boyfriend by being able to afford the trip her boyfriend can't swing. His reaction to the trip is not even remotely surprising.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

FOB said:


> It cracks me up when I read sweeping generalizations about how anyone with OSF boundaries must be a controlling, insecure whackjob. That's like saying anyone without them must be a cheating, lying SOB.


The irony about this is that quite often the OSF is extremely jealous and controlling. The partner who insists on these liaisons for whatever reasons just simply won’t address it. May even get off on it, since when with the OSF, you can always pull the “just a friend” card. 

And if the OSF is getting benefits from the friendship whether real (like freebies, bar tabs closed) or psychic (some people get off on controlling or messing up someone else’s life, I don’t consider this possibility lightly), they certainly have no reason to change … at least not with that person.

Firstly, of all the messaging between my husband and his “just a friend” ex that I was able to read, she constantly asked questions about me; she compared the state of her health to mine (ie, well, at least it’s not cancer.) When it appeared that he was rethinking his relationship with her and (apparently realizing that he could lose me), I saw an e-mail in which she stated (I’m copying and pasting from the actual e-mail)

1.	"I refuse to compromise who I am and what I deserve or to be made to feel inferior, not anymore."
2.	"I am creative and funny and sure I may be big but that does not define me."
3.	"I may not be the prettiest girl but I have a lot to offer and I have to start liking myself again which means not playing the victim anymore."
4.	"I particularly refuse to be jealous of a divorced 50 year old event planner" (well, she asked a lot of questions about me and he obliged and so she decides he’s trying to make her jealous)

When I raised the issue to my (future) husband about the elephant in the room (quite literally since she self-described as 50 pounds overweight; don’t think she didn’t get HER digs in against me about my advanced age), he had nothing good to say about her. 

He called her “mercurial” in an e-mail; he told me that he didn’t find her friends very interesting; he told me about incidences like the one about getting his comic books back in which either she was directly rude to him (she stood him up for a concert and never reimbursed him for the ticket) or things related to her were done in a rude way. 

So it begs the question, what was he getting out of this friendship? And why would I want to have a committed relationship with someone who is going to bring that toxic person into my life? I could have faded away instead of risking appearing jealous and insecure. But I didn’t.



wise said:


> It is funny how out of hand these threads get. So many assumptions. So many hypotheticals. …………..
> ……………..Women are just sooo delusional, aren't they? Every time a woman goes on vacation that (like the OP stated, involves no drinking/partying/romance), every single one of them are just bound to cheat. Women have no morals and they act before they think. They have no idea what the single guy is trying to do.. they just fall right onto his di*k!!!


Everything that I have written are real life examples that happened and many of them happened to me personally.

While my (future) husband was insisting that they were just friends, he said something that outed him. They had taken a trip together early soon after he and I started dating. But then he said that her boyfriend picked them up from the airport and gave both of them rides home. My husband said something along the lines of “I can’t believe that he was able to do that.” Uh, well, if you as a man have bought into the idea that you are just a friend with some woman _no matter what you two get up to _then why should it be so difficult for any other man –even the boyfriend – to buy into what you say is true?

And FTR, my husband tells me that she was trying to put the moves on him, not vice versa.

There was another incident that makes me think that her boyfriend had not fully bought into the relationship. After nearly a year of talking about some big bash for her 30th birthday on Facebook, the boyfriend sent my husband an invitation on the day of…at 1pm for a party that started at 7pm that evening. Then about 11pm that evening (when pubs close, where the party took place) she texted my husband: “Why didn’t you come?” 

The next day my husband texted her with the message that I wrote for him: “Why do you ask?” Given the fact that she had to have the last word at least with him (I had noticed that elsewhere), she texted back: “Umm, because my boyfriend just wanted to invite a few friends around for my birthday.” So maybe the boyfriend didn’t want him to come and tried to avoid inviting him in the first place. And I think she was texting him because she (and her boyfriend) needed someone to close that f^cking bar tab.




Chaparral said:


> Everytime you turn around there is another article about why men are refusing to marry.


I believe this. If a guy could be “just friends” with several women, that would be a pretty nice rotation. Guys who are socially awkward and clumsy go the “just friends” route because most likely they are under achievers, so if things don’t work out, they can say, “oh, well, she had a boyfriend anyway.” 

How my husband got sucked into a toxic relationship that overlapped ours until I did something about it, has, as you can see, continued to mystify me. New in town (as he was then), socially lazy, she supplied him with a social life, okay…… but after he met me, all I can think is that for some people there must be a thrill, maybe a little like full on cheating; it looks like but it isn’t.

Faded, this is food for thought for you and anyone else reading this who may think that there’s something not quite right with OSFs but haven’t been able to articulate it yet.

I’ll leave you with two additional threads that outline the problems between men and women regarding modern dating:
1.	http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...nd-found-out-about-past-guy-who-he-hates.html
2.	http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...girlfriend-always-going-out-male-friends.html


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wise said:


> It is an _great_ thing that many women do not operate how you see fit. Just because you believe that women should be restricted to the commands of their SO, doesn't necessarily means everyone else shares your belief.
> 
> Whatever happened to "Have a great time babe. Take plenty of pictures, stay out of trouble, and call me when you can so I know your safe." Oh, wait, that still happens because not every man on this planet is a self-centered control freak.
> 
> ...


:iagree: I had to QFT!!!


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

this has been a fascinating and eye opening thread for me. way to many silimarities with the OP and what is going on in my relationship.

the red flags, the compatibility issues all addressed here, are akin to my situation. My SO and I have been together for quite a while (years).

Last night I ended the relationship. rather than "trying to make it work" ill find someone that it works with naturally. and maybe im fooling myself.... I do/did love this person but just see way to many issue being brought up here that apply to me.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> :iagree: I had to QFT!!!


As long as you have been here and as many threads I know you have been invloved in, it shocks me that you are buying into this. I feel certain if you changed the sexes around, you would have a different take. This is just a straw man arguement from start to finish.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> As long as you have been here and as many threads I know you have been invloved in, it shocks me that you are buying into this. I feel certain if you changed the sexes around, you would have a different take. This is just a straw man arguement from start to finish.


I'd say the same thing if the genders were switched.

Using angry outbursts and breaking things (threats of violence) are wrong no matter who does this.

Further, the OP has appropriate boundaries. For example she unfriended and blocked the guy when his liking and comments of Facebook because an issue. They were an issue to her and she told her bf about them. Her bf was out of hand to insisted that she had to do things his way. She is obviously perfect capable of handling herself when she feels a guy to acting in a way that she does not appreciate.

The assumption here the Facebook guy is going on this trip just to hit up the OP is ridiculous. And even if he were, she's perfectly capable of shutting him down. Most women have a lot of experience in shutting down guys who come on to them.

I do believe that relationships need boundaries. But they are boundaries that both parties agree to. And there are different boundaries based on the level of the relationship. With a couple that is only dating, there are fewer boundaries. and they should be appropriate based on the people involved. The OP has never shown any propensity to cheat or have inappropriate with other men.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> I'd say the same thing if the genders were switched.
> 
> Using angry outbursts and breaking things (threats of violence) are wrong no matter who does this.
> 
> ...


So.........if a married man decided to go with his unmarried guy friend to Europe and at the last minute decided to invite and take a girl friend that is a little odd, and had to recently be removed from unmarried man's facebook because she was coming on to strong, you agree that would be cool.

I certainly don't know a woman that would consider this more than a millisecond.:rofl:


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

> The OP has never shown any propensity to cheat or have inappropriate with other men.


that still does not mean that the BF has to lower his boundaries.

so she hasn't or doesn't show a propensity to cheat? SO WHAT. if the other party isn't comfortable with ones behaviors then its time to get out. I keep seeing many here who think he should lower his boundaries and see it her way. 

and this has nothing to do with his anger violence or other bull. that too should be an immediate deal breaker.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> So.........if a married man decided to go with his unmarried guy friend to Europe and at the last minute decided to invite and take a girl friend that is a little odd, and had to recently be removed from unmarried man's facebook because she was coming on to strong, you agree that would be cool.
> 
> I certainly don't know a woman that would consider this more than a millisecond.:rofl:


The trip is not a vacation, it's educational and business. The OP has no control over who goes on this trip.

If it was a trip where the OP, her friend and this guy were on vacation, just hanging out, drinking, etc. it would a very different situation.


----------



## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> The trip is not a vacation, it's educational and business. The OP has no control over who goes on this trip.
> 
> If it was a trip where the OP, her friend and this guy were on vacation, just hanging out, drinking, etc. it would a very different situation.


the OP has said this is a HOBBY, shared with friends. the business aspect is secondary.

to think these friends with mutual interests WONT "hang out, drink etc" is just ludicrous.

I go on plenty of business and personal trips, there is plenty of time for that. in fact, generally more than being at home!


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> The trip is not a vacation, it's educational and business. The OP has no control over who goes on this trip.
> 
> If it was a trip where the OP, her friend and this guy were on vacation, just hanging out, drinking, etc. it would a very different situation.


The OM was added as anafter thought, supposedly because he shared their interest in horses.

I wish bandit could be here to expound on the horsey set.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> The OM was added as anafter thought, supposedly because he shared their interest in horses.
> 
> I wish bandit could be here to expound on the horsey set.


Oh good lord, talk about stereotyping the OP!


----------



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

x598 said:


> this has been a fascinating and eye opening thread for me. way to many silimarities with the OP and what is going on in my relationship.
> 
> the red flags, the compatibility issues all addressed here, are akin to my situation. My SO and I have been together for quite a while (years).
> 
> Last night I ended the relationship. rather than "trying to make it work" ill find someone that it works with naturally. and maybe im fooling myself.... I do/did love this person but just see way to many issue being brought up here that apply to me.


It's good that you did that. It's so hard at first - to end a relationship that you've become comfortable with - but ultimately, it's better for you and your ex because you will probably both be able to find better compatible people in the future. 

It's more difficult after marriage, house, kids, etc. So, sorting this out while dating is definitely better. 

To the OP, 

People don't typically change (not to say that they can't or don't...but typically, they stay with what's comfortable). Whether I think the situation is controlling or not is irrelevant. You have said that he has a history of this type of behavior. This behavior bothers you. In the future, this will be his default behavior. That is who he is and what he is comfortable with. You will NOT change that. You can try for a very long time and he can try for a while to change, maybe even be able to control it for a bit. In the end though, it will always come back. 

That is something that takes years to work on and would possibly need the help of an IC. IF....and I am really stressing this....IF he WANTED to change it. 

IF he doesn't...he won't - all he would be doing is trying to pacify you in order to keep you around. He will probably always be this way though because he's admitted that he is insecure. If he is insecure by nature...this is just something that will always be a part of him.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> So.........if a married man decided to go with his unmarried guy friend to Europe and at the last minute decided to invite and take a girl friend that is a little odd, and had to recently be removed from unmarried man's facebook because she was coming on to strong, you agree that would be cool.
> 
> I certainly don't know a woman that would consider this more than a millisecond.:rofl:


And once again, NOT all women are insanely jealous. Just because you might know more men who are restricted by their wives than not or read some limited study conducted in one area of the world, does not make your assumption any more appealing. 

There are jealous people and there are non jealous people. Jealousy is about being possessive of your partner. It is a way to exert control in a relationship which is quite smothering for many people on the controlled side of the scale. And this emotion the SO feels derives from insecurity within themselves. They are dating or married to someone they cannot even trust because of all the 'horror' stories. 

Women have a lot more control over their SO these days; and for many women, the role is not reversed. Women work on emotions; a proven fact. Men who control their wives because he doesn't trust her and thinks she can't act like a big girl, will eventually drive her away via emotional exhaustion. Guys do not work the same way when the woman is jealous. They tend to just 'deal' with it. Women cannot just deal with it. Just like in the OP's case, she is basically fighting for this relationship. Her SO's tries at controlling her are pushing her away emotionally, and she is trying to put up one last fight in hopes he will change before she becomes emotionally exhausted; and then it is done. 

Many men just do not understand this and would most likely be getting laid more often if they had self-confidence in themselves, in their lady, and in their relationship. Not to say the person won't cheat for another reason, but you can sure bet the reason won't be because of jealous issue like IT IS in many broken marriages.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

wise said:


> Many men just do not understand this and would most likely be getting laid more often if they had self-confidence in themselves, in their lady, and in their relationship. Not to say the person won't cheat for another reason, but you can sure bet the reason won't be because of jealous issue like IT IS in many broken marriages.


And that's it in a nutshell for some (most?) women. 

Insecurity is a sexual turn off for me and for that reason I wouldn't even consider dating a guy who gave off that vibe. Unless I didn't like sex. But I do.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Oh good lord, talk about stereotyping the OP!


You still haven't answered my question about the married man, the singl man and the single girl taking a vacation together.


----------



## GettingIt_2 (Apr 12, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> So.........if a married man decided to go with his unmarried guy friend to Europe and at the last minute decided to invite and take a girl friend that is a little odd, and had to recently be removed from unmarried man's facebook because she was coming on to strong, you agree that would be cool.
> 
> *I certainly don't know a woman that would consider this more than a millisecond*.:rofl:


I would. As long as he told me all the details when he got home. 

No really, are you asking if there is a woman who would let her husband go on a business trip/conference to Europe under those circumstances? I would without blinking an eye. I trust him, and I trust in our marriage.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Chaparral said:


> You still haven't answered my question about the married man, the singl man and the single girl taking a vacation together.


What? I thought I did but it's not here. My internet went down earlier today so I guess the post did not happen. Will be back in a bit to reply (again).


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

wise said:


> Women work on emotions; a proven fact.


Where are you getting this "fact" from? My husband regularly made decisions on gut feeling while I was always trying to make decisions based on a sense of fairness and balance.

Ultimately, I think people prefer the one who does what he "feels", it appears to be more "real." Well, alright, then.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Based on our previous trip of the same nature last year (which is why we applied for a grant from horse-based programs to go back again this year because it was so great and so helpful, to better our business in the horse world - and PS, I do have a great regular job too, so that's why I say it's a hobby but a business also because we do try to make money, lol).... we will be so exhausted at the end of the days that, needless to say, there is not a lot of partying and drinking by the time we get dropped at our hotel at 9pm. My friend is not really into that either, and being married herself, it's just not what we do. We normally go almost straight to bed, due also in part to jet lag tiredness. I can say this with confidence because we have already done one of these trips, so I know how it is. Plus, again, I don't drink a lick (my dad was an alcoholic and died of heart issues from it). 

The other person in our party is a 67 year old woman whom we've done business with and wanted to go as well. It's a public course after all. There will be mostly older people, men and women, taking the course also - last year I'd say the average age was probably 45-50. So, it's not like this is a party-type environment. It's just not. If it was like a spring-break type situation, I can see that having a worse look/feel to it. This guy is not "going on vacation with us". He is attending an educational trip because he shares the interest in horses. He could have even gone without us. Since we hadn't booked our flight my friend got him on the same flight so he wouldn't be traveling his first time to Europe alone. Otherwise he would have been on his own to make separate travel arrangements. Big difference to a reasonable person. And yes, we scheduled this trip with me, my best friend and the 67 yo lady in May, and the guy was invited - again, it IS a public course - in September by my friend simply because she thought he might enjoy it. I don't think there is any ulterior motive here. Anyway, I am tired of defending that aspect of it...

I understand what is going on now. I agree that it would be far easier to end this and try to find someone better suited for me. It's just hard because the good was so good at the beginning (isn't it always) but it got progressively worse. I guess it happened relatively slowly so I didn't realize what was really happening. I've never been in an abusive relationship because I didn't date that many people before my ex who I met at 19 and was with for 16 years. For those who don't think they are controlling or abusive, take a look at this. I will note which behaviors I have seen from this person, sometimes all at once:


Past abuse
An abuser may say, "I hit someone in the past, but she made me do it." An abusive person who minimizes what happened with a previous partner is likely to be violent with their current partner. Abusive behavior does not just go away; long-term counseling and a sincere desire to change are necessary. NO (HAS NOT YET ACTUALLY HIT ME)

Threats of violence or abuse
Threats can involve anything that is meant to control the victim. For example, "I'll tell your parents about your drug use if you don't do what I want." Healthy relationships do not involve threats, but an abusive person will try to excuse this behavior by saying that "everybody talks like that." YES, LOTS OF THREATS / ULTIMATUMS

Breaking objects
An abuser may break things, beat on tables or walls or throw objects around or near the victim. This behavior terrorizes the victim and can send the message that physical abuse is the next step. YES, HAS PUNCHED THINGS 

Use of force during an argument
An abuser may use force during arguments, including holding the victim down, physically restraining the victim from leaving the room, and pushing and shoving. For example, an abuser may hold a victim against the wall and say, "You're going to listen to me." ONE TIME HE HELD MY ARMS

Jealousy
An abuser will say that jealousy is a sign of love. In reality, jealousy has nothing to do with love. It is a sign of insecurity and possessiveness. An abuser may question the victim about whom they talk to or be jealous of time spent with other people. As the jealousy progresses, the abuser will call the victim frequently, stop by unexpectedly or monitor the victim's activities. DON'T THINK I EVEN NEED TO COMMENT HERE - HAS NOT YET GOT TO THE PHYSICAL STALKING POINT. QUESTIONS IF ANY MEN HAVE TEXTED OR TALKED TO ME, or "HIT ON" ME

Controlling behavior
An abuser will claim that controlling behavior is out of concern for the victim's welfare. They will be angry if the victim is late and will frequently interrogate the victim. As this behavior gets worse, the abuser will control the victim's appearance and activities. YES - DOESN'T WANT ME TO GO TO FRIEND'S GET TOGETHERS WHERE THERE MIGHT BE OTHER MEN BECAUSE THEY MAY BE DANGEROUS. ACTS LIKE IT'S FOR MY OWN GOOD BECAUSE "HE DOESN'T TRUST OTHER PEOPLE" HE WILL MENTION THAT HE THINKS I SPENT EXTRA TIME TRYING TO LOOK GOOD FOR, SAY, A WORK EVENT WHERE HE IS NOT ATTENDING AND SEES PHOTOS (MAKES JEALOUS COMMENTS ABOUT MY HAIR OR HOW GOOD I LOOKED THAT DAY), AND HAS ACCUSED ME OF "SEEKING ATTENTION" (WHICH I AM JUST INTERACTING NORMALLY WITH PEOPLE!). DOES NOT QUESTION WHERE I AM OR EVERYTHING I HAVE DONE DURING THE DAY, YET...

Quick involvement
An abuser will often pressure someone to make a commitment after a very short amount of time. The abuser comes on quickly, claiming "love at first sight," and will tell the victim flattering things such as "You're the only person I could ever love." NOT TOTALLY BUT HAS MENTIONED MARRIAGE MANY TIMES AND SEEMS IN A HURRY (DON'T LIKE THAT PRESSURE)

Unrealistic expectations
The abuser is dependent on the victim for everything and expects perfection. The victim is expected to take care of everything for the abuser, particularly all emotional support. The abuser will say things like, "You're the only person I need in my life." YES - HE HAS SAID THIS EXACT PHRASE, AND I FEEL LIKE HIS ENTIRE LIFE REVOLVES AROUND ME WHICH SEEMS GREAT TO OTHERS BUT IT'S NOT.

Isolation
The abuser will attempt to diminish and destroy the victim's support system. If a female victim has male friends, she is accused of being a "*****." If she has female friends, she is accused of being a "lesbian." If she is close to her family, she is accused of being "tied to the apron strings." The abuser will accuse people who are close to the victim of "causing trouble." HASN'T REALLY DONE THIS. DOESN'T MIND ME GOING TO DINNER WITH GIRL FRIENDS. DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH MOST OF MY LONG TIME MALE FRIENDS. DEPENDS ON HIS MOOD WHETHER HE WILL GO OFF OR NOT - HAS GOTTEN A BIT BETTER HERE IMO. THE INCIDENT WITH THE iPHONE WAS A WHILE AGO.

Blames others for problems
Abusers will rarely admit to the part they play in causing a problem. She will blame the victim for almost anything that goes wrong. YES - HE WILL SAY I CAUSE HIM TO DO THESE THINGS BECAUSE WHAT I DO "HURTS HIM" (ie just living) HAS RECENTLY ADMITTED IT'S HIS ISSUE. WE SHALL SEE.

Blames others for their feelings
An abuser will tell the victim, "I hurt you because you made me mad," or "You're hurting me when you don't do what I ask." Blaming the victim is a way of manipulating them and avoiding any responsibility. YES - SEE ABOVE (IN OTHER WORDS THESE ANGRY, ABUSIVE OUTBURSTS WOULDN'T HAPPEN IF I AVOIDED DOING ALL THINGS WHICH "HURT HIM" - WHICH IS EVERYTHING. lol

Hypersensitivity
An abuser can be easily insulted. The slightest setbacks are seen as personal attacks. An abuser will rage about the everyday difficulties of life as if they are injustices -- such as getting a traffic ticket or not doing well on an exam. YES - ANYTHING I SAY HE ONLY SEES IN THE WAY IN WHICH IT COULD POSSIBLY AFFECT HIM. DOES NOT SUPPORT MY FEELINGS ABOUT ANYTHING, JUST GETS HURT BECAUSE SOMEHOW IT MIGHT AFFECT HIM BADLY IN SOME REMOTE WAY.

Cruelty to animals or children
An abuser may brutally punish animals or be insensitive to their pain or suffering. Pets can be used to control the victim or to emotionally abuse them. NO, HAVE NOT SEEN THIS, HAS DOGS AND LOVES THEM, AND HAS TWO CHILDREN, ONE COLLEGE AND ONE GRADE SCHOOL AGE AND SEEMS GOOD TO THEM - CAN SEE SOME OF THE GUILTING BEHAVIORS THO USED WITH OLDER CHILD. YOUNGER CHILD IS DEVELOPING SOME PRETTY SEVERE ANXIETY ISSUES, AND I REALIZED SO AM I, SO I WONDER IF SHE IS PICKING UP ON HIS ISSUES TOO. SHE IS 10.

"Playful" use of force during sex
The abuser may like to hold the victim down during sex. They may want to act out sexual fantasies in which the victim is helpless. An abuser may show little concern about whether the victim wants to have sex and use sulking or anger to manipulate the victim into compliance. They may demand sex or start having sex with the victim when they are sleeping or very intoxicated. NO, HAS NEVER DONE THIS

Rigid sex roles
Male abusers often expect women to serve and obey them. They view women as inferior to men and believe that a woman is not a whole person without a relationship with a man. NOT THAT I KNOW OF

Jekyll-and-Hyde personality
Explosiveness and mood swings are typical of abusers, and these behaviors are related to other traits such as hypersensitivity. This is not always a sign of mental health problems but may be a way of controlling the victim by being unpredictable. YES, SOMETIMES I WONDER IF HE DOES HAVE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES LIKE BORDERLINE... CAN BE IN A GOOD MOOD AND THEN INSTANTLY VERY SOUR.

Anyway, here is the article link with credit to the author: 
Warning signs of an abusive person: Women's Center - Northwestern University

Very interesting and was very eye opening for me to read. My ex husband was the total opposite (not controlling or abusive AT ALL) so this has been quite the shock to me. And I know now that if it doesn't stop soon, I am out. I will know we are just not compatible, and it's hard to accept because the beginning was so good. But I find myself living on memories and not in the present to keep going.


----------



## kennethk (Feb 18, 2014)

You really need to end this relationship because all you are doing is justifying a selfish attitude.

You do not love this man.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

To many red flags here. Find another man.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

kennethk said:


> You really need to end this relationship because all you are doing is justifying a selfish attitude.
> 
> You do not love this man.


I'm selfish? Because I am clearly being abused by someone and don't want to continue to let it happen? Are you reading any of this? :scratchhead: 

I adored him until all of this started. Once he felt like he "had me", the jealousy and controlling stuff started, little at first, and then escalated when I apparently condoned it by not walking away. Now he has degraded it so badly by verbal and emotional abuse that I'm not sure what it is. All I did was enable it by continuing to go back after the incidents. Only now when he knows I am on the brink of leaving him he actually is behaving much better. I don't trust it to last, though. There are still very good parts to him (which I am sure there are nice parts to serial killers also) and he's really trying right now... just don't want to ignore the red flags. Chances are that not all of them could turn green...

If you want to be loved, be lovable. I don't know anyone who would be critized for not loving someone that treated them like ass. lol

Actually, he hasn't been as bad about this trip as he has about other things. Maybe because I think he's realized he was being a total jerk. We have that part worked out right now. But it remains to be seen if on the trip he starts drama with me to try to keep my attention the whole time like he has on other trips, and so I won't enjoy it. There have been many examples of this (even trips with my family). So, I am worried he will play it cool until I get there and then all hell will break loose again and he will all but ruin the trip for me.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Wow, some people drop the ball on this. He breaks things, and has issues with anger and self control. He is highly possessive, she is not allowd to laugh when another guy is being funny. People say she doesn't care about him, but she puts up with his verbal asaults, and temper tantrums. She is moving more towards what he wants, and he is not budging himself.

I agree that she should break up with him. Let him find a woman who will put up with him placing her in a box. Who will put up with his destructive behavior. Who controls when she can laugh. And when he can't control his anger, watch out for valuables, because he might break it. Hey ladies, stand in line when he is free.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> I'm selfish? Because I am being abused by someone? Are you reading any of this? :scratchhead: I loved him very much until all of this started. Now he has degraded it so badly by verbal and emotional abuse that I'm not sure what it is. There are still very good parts to him and he's really trying right now... just don't want to ignore the red flags. Chances are that not all of them could turn green...
> 
> If you want to be loved, be lovable. I don't know anyone who would be critized for not loving someone that treated them like ass. lol


 It has to do with most posters past issues. My fiance cheated on me with her ex, but I don't let the anger and resentment in my life. Why bother, learn to be happy again and move on. What is the use of being bitter, I rather enjoy life, cause it is so much fun. I also don't see myself in other's post around here. People have got to learn to see each thread separately. They ignore his abuse, and attack you.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> It has to do with most posters past issues. My fiance cheated on me with her ex, but I don't let the anger and resentment in my life. Why bother, learn to be happy again and move on. What is the use of being bitter, I rather enjoy life, cause it is so much fun. I also don't see myself in other's post around here. People have got to learn to see each thread separately. They ignore his abuse, and attack you.


Thanks Mr. Fisty - I really don't feel like I am being a selfish jerk when I am in protection mode for my own well being due to the actions of this person. 

Just another jealousy incident for those who asked... I was in Alabama with my mom visiting some elderly relatives. I saw on FB (it's always FB dammit!!) where a person who is a professional acquaintance in the horse world commented "Nice!" on one of my self photos. Just "Nice". He wrote me questioning who this person was, I told him, and he said I had to delete the comment because it was disrespectful. I refused, saying it was perfectly acceptable to comment on a person's photo with the word Nice. Of course a battle ensued where he threatened to end the relationship (as always) if I didn't take down the comment. Then of course the insults started and the "I never want to talk to you again"s and the "F*ck yous". And then 2-3 days of silent treatment. Over one comment of Nice.  This was in late August.

Also, if I try ignoring him, he will eventually show up at my house. When this thing with this FB guy who's going on the trip started and he demanded I defriend him, same situation of hurtful insults and threats ensued. This happened about a month ago now. Tiring of this cycle of rage and abuse over relatively nothing, I tried a different approach of "I'm politely bowing out of this conversation". I turned my phone off and went to bed. My home phone rang about 20 times over the next hour before I went to sleep, and I ignored it. He left messages like, you're upset with me and I want to know you're ok... (acting like he cares just to get my attention back, typical). At 12:30am someone is beating on my door, you guessed it. Scared me to death out of a sleep. I went and opened it and he was acting concerned at first. Then started telling me to get my phone and defriend this guy, to which I said no. At this point it's principle. So he says I care more about that guy than him (no, I care about my freedom!) and again with the tongue lashing and name calling, threats, etc, and then handed back a necklace I had made for him as a gift and I told him calmly to get out. During this whole incident I just sat on my bed silently. I did not fight at all, because I hate fighting. Then once he left, he called back and said he regretted every minute he has spent with me, didn't even want to see or talk to me again (not nearly the first time he's said this), etc, I hung up on him and again turned phone off. This was really the straw for me - when I felt a switch flip so to speak to where I was no longer blinded by love so to speak. I immediately blocked him on FB and blocked his phone number and told him please leave me alone. I guess I was stupid to eventually start talking to him again after about 2 weeks. I did feel like a weight / cage had been lifted off of me. I refuse to feel like I am restricted or abused ever again, and I will definitely cut him off the next time I feel that way. I have given a hair on this Germany thing because he has not done his normal verbal abuse routine on me in an effort to show he is trying (and yes, I know this is a VERY trying situation and he's actually probably really doing well, for him) and I wanted to show I am trying also by agreeing to spare him of pictures with me standing next to this guy since I know it's bothering him. But I will no longer allow anything else... I finally have the strength and knowledge to stop it. 

After reading my own writing, I guess it's a damn good question why I am still there. I supposed after the horror and despair of what I went through with my ex, this being the first relationship since, I was really swept off my feet in the beginning and didn't want to be alone again so soon and go through another breakup. But at this point, I am more than willing if things don't stay on the up and up. Which I doubt they will. And it's not fair for me to expect him to change who he is, either. (Like he can't expect me to change who I am)


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Your in the stage of the power struggle of a relationship. This is where the infatuation wears off, and you start noticing each other's flaws. This is the stage where boundaries are set, and there has to be give and take.. This is the stage where you figure if each of you can bend enough towards each other. He needs to work on his own issues, and find out where he can improve. You should do the same. Some people require growing more than others. From what you describe him as, he has an agressive, combative communication style. He will bombard you until you are mentally exhausted. This is where you disengage and walk away. By not engaging, he is left with no one to be argumentive towards. Also reenforce that you will not put up with that behavior. Good communication skills is where people recieve and transmit information. You don't jump all over the place, and you deal with one topic at a time. Listen and absorb the info, and relay back if the message is crystal clear. Then it is your turn on the subject. Shouting does not get people anywhere.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Your in the stage of the power struggle of a relationship. This is where the infatuation wears off, and you start noticing each other's flaws. This is the stage where boundaries are set, and there has to be give and take.. This is the stage where you figure if each of you can bend enough towards each other. He needs to work on his own issues, and find out where he can improve. You should do the same. Some people require growing more than others. From what you describe him as, he has an agressive, combative communication style. He will bombard you until you are mentally exhausted. This is where you disengage and walk away. By not engaging, he is left with no one to be argumentive towards. Also reenforce that you will not put up with that behavior. Good communication skills is where people recieve and transmit information. You don't jump all over the place, and you deal with one topic at a time. Listen and absorb the info, and relay back if the message is crystal clear. Then it is your turn on the subject. Shouting does not get people anywhere.


Gosh, there are so many extremely good people on this forum!!

I think you're right, in hindsight. I know relationships go through stages, and how that the newness has worn off, the real issues come to light. Blinders are off... haha

I KNOW this is his normal communication style with his ex. Anger, threats, yelling, name calling, "who can hurt the other the worst". So I am trying to get him to see that isn't the way to do things and to change that habit. It's hard! Just staying calm goes a long way. 

He definitely IS trying. We were able to discuss this very tough issue of this guy going on the trip without a blow up and the abuse situation. And it went really well. That's why I agreed I would talk to my friend and tell her I didn't want photos of me with this guy posted on FB. I felt that was fair given that he was being as good as he could be about it and that he was really trying. I felt I had to try also. Because let's face it, if this does work out somehow, I definitely have to give too. It will remain to be seen if we can each give enough for each other's comfort.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> Gosh, there are so many extremely good people on this forum!!
> 
> I think you're right, in hindsight. I know relationships go through stages, and how that the newness has worn off, the real issues come to light. Blinders are off... haha
> 
> ...


 Haha, that is why I joined the site, and I am already getting sick of it. Less than a month. These forums are good at viewing situations from every different angle. The goal of this site should be seeking the best outcome for each person, whether together or not. Give clarity where sometimes people too close to a situation has missed.


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> One example of the jealousy was me selling an iphone to a guy friend of mine and needing to drive over and drop it off. He freaked out and got angry and punched the stereo in his car and broke it, with me sitting right there. You tell me if that's normal and his boundaries are normal. Tons of more examples like this.
> 
> The question is, and seeing as it has gotten increasingly worse over time, and can I live with this. At the present time, the answer is no, I would not marry him without improvement, which he is trying, and likewise I am trying as well to "help" him without becoming an full-on abusive victim. I tried to be coy about it at first, just to get answers to that one particular question, but let me assure you, he is or was (trying very hard to have outburts anymore) abusive in the most classic way - he blames his bad behavior on me, that I cause him to do it (so classic) and he probably did become that way I am sure because his initial attempts to control me were not successful and I am still resisting. So he started putting on the heat even harder and I walked away. I am giving it one more chance - the sad thing is, I was VERY VERY serious about him, but as this behavior started coming to the surface, my hope that it will return to being a healthy, safe relationship has dwindled considerably and I have had to back off emotionally some for my own sanity. I have cried my eyes out so many times because of him treating me terribly and being abusive. But then it can be so good (as long as everything is going his way... typical abuser, a cycle... as soon as something comes up he doesn't like all hell breaks loose).


I'll admit I haven't read this whole thread. I don't need to. This says it all. You must RUN AWAY NOW. Do not look back. He will not get better. He will get worse. Trust me. I know. I lived this life for 12 looooong years. You cannot help him.

Wishing you strength and courage to leave this man.


----------



## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Your boy friend is nuttier than a fruitcake . You need to run from this guy as fast as you can. No wonder he's divorced.

Block his phone. You know you can unplug a house phone or turn the ringer off right? For about three dollars month I get two rings on my house phone. One is unlisted. The answering machine answers all the listed number calls.

He is dangerous and no doubt came from an abusive family. Dump him and be safe.


----------



## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

faded, you should have left him yesterday. It seems you want to to leave but it also seems that you want to the girl that changes him. If we were in high school, you might have success but he is much older now. This is who he is and it is a major reason of why women run away from him (and hopefully you will soon).

I have been telling you from the beginning and now after a full confession, everyone else finally agrees with your thought process. And I repeat: Your thoughts and justifications are RIGHT. I am glad that you are standing up for yourself. But, Actions speak louder then words.

He sounds completely like my little brother. My brother cannot hold onto a girl for more than a year unless she has dad issues. The girls that he dates that come from good families end up running after the 8 month period ends and normally the broken girl will stick around because being controlled is what she is used to, unfortunately. Then he comes crying to me for about a week or two about how depressed he is after they leave and how he swears he will change. Then he starts partying again, finds a girlfriend, and repeats. The kid has a lot going on for himself--internship at a big marketing firm--in shape--tall--nice AT FIRST--but he does not know how to control his emotions and he will never learn how to.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

wise said:


> faded, you should have left him yesterday. It seems you want to to leave but it also seems that you want to the girl that changes him. If we were in high school, you might have success but he is much older now. This is who he is and it is a major reason of why women run away from him (and hopefully you will soon).
> 
> I have been telling you from the beginning and now after a full confession, everyone else finally agrees with your thought process. And I repeat: Your thoughts and justifications are RIGHT. I am glad that you are standing up for yourself. But, Actions speak louder then words.
> 
> He sounds completely like my little brother. My brother cannot hold onto a girl for more than a year unless she has dad issues. The girls that he dates that come from good families end up running after the 8 month period ends and normally the broken girl will stick around because being controlled is what she is used to, unfortunately. Then he comes crying to me for about a week or two about how depressed he is after they leave and how he swears he will change. Then he starts partying again, finds a girlfriend, and repeats. The kid has a lot going on for himself--internship at a big marketing firm--in shape--tall--nice AT FIRST--but he does not know how to control his emotions and he will never learn how to.


That's why I said a while back that it's not really trickle truth... it's just me revealing background info that I didn't realize would be as pertitent at first. And of course, when I write it and go back and read it, it sounds insane, and I would give anyone advice to get away from this person. He has issues dealing with his disrespectful older child (early 20's - had very young, so married young and probably to wrong person, you know how that goes)... I am sure because respect didn't seem to be present in the household, ex wife either. 

I am not sure if he learned it from his parents or from his ex (seems to be her), or if he had the propensity and she was like gas and a match, who knows... but this has been going on a long time I'm sure, so my gut feeling is that he isn't going to morph back into the great guy I thought he was when I met him. He still has really good moments but I want it to be more than a moment. Lack of self and emotional control and insecurity seem to be the root issues and lord knows I've tried... I just want him to be the best him he can be, even not with me. Just foresee lots more relationship issues for him if he doesn't get a grip...


----------



## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> I just want him to be the best him he can be, even not with me.


Gosh this sounds just like me. You care too much and he doesn't care enough.

He's sick, sick, sick. He needs way more help than you can ever hope to give him. Let me repeat: you cannot and will not fix him. 

He is terrorizing and bullying you. This is not how real love works. It shouldn't be this difficult. I'm getting sick with anxiety just reading about your BF's immature terrorism.

I wasted 12 years of my life with my abuser, bending over backwards to get him any type of help and it only got worse. Sure, he did the mea culpa thing and 'got better' but hell, it was only to placate me and keep me under his thumb. And as you well know, it never lasted.

It started with him throwing things, then throwing things at me, then purposefully destroying only MY things that I worked my butt off to earn. My first new car ever? Jumped on the hood and dented it w/in 6 mos. of my buying it. Funny how he claimed to have lost all control while in these rages, but HEY! Guess what? His precious computer and record collection and other prized possessions remained intact. My stuff? Yeah. Destroyed to smithereens. Funny how that works, right? And I hadn't loved him for years! I was cavalier and thought I could fix him. Nope. I stayed so long because I knew he wasn't in his right mind and someone had to help him. I'm a huge sucker. Please don't become me.

In the end, I slept with my purse, keys, and phone under my bed because he would terrorize me in the middle of the night just for sh*ts n giggles. Sick. 

Realize this: you are better than him. He is not of your caliber. He will drag you down with him regardless of the cost.


----------



## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

I know you want to help him, but only he can do that himself. He has to seek serious professional help for him to deal with the underlying factors. Trust me, there will be too much baggage for that. 

Your planning on hope. You hope that your love will convert him, but there are serious psychological issues that only a professional can get to the root cause of. You changing him is probably way out of your league. Until he works on the underlying issues, all you can do is patchwork.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's interesting because I've experienced a different set of symptoms than you, but they affect me just as badly. You're smart to get out, because this is what you have to look forward to if you raise kids with him:



fadedsmile said:


> Unrealistic expectations
> The abuser is dependent on the victim for everything and expects perfection. The victim is expected to take care of everything for the abuser, particularly all emotional support. The abuser will say things like, "You're the only person I need in my life."


I got that one. In fact, my IC/our MC has said often that it's not healthy that he would be perfectly happy if the only two people he was with for the rest of his life is me and our DD24. When she was in high school, he wouldn't even let her go to the mall. And he wanted all interactions with friends to be at OUR house, so he could monitor. In fact, now that DD24 is in a real, adult relationship, he is FREAKING OUT. All kinds of aspersions as to this guy being a user (he's not), making her spend money (he's not), making her drive to his house (he's not), on and on and on...anything he can think of to make this guy look bad so she'll drop him and 'come home.' We had a HUGE blowup about it this weekend and I haven't spoken to him in 3 days. He just doesn't get it.



fadedsmile said:


> Isolation
> The abuser will attempt to diminish and destroy the victim's support system.


Within the first 5 years of marriage, I'd given up my two only friends just to keep him from harping on them about how bad they were, on and on and on. And I quit going to see my family and made excuse after excuse for why we weren't seeing them, just to get him to shut up.



fadedsmile said:


> Blames others for problems
> Abusers will rarely admit to the part they play in causing a problem. She will blame the victim for almost anything that goes wrong.


I found a 'diagnosis' for my H that I like: "Right Man Syndrome." Nothing is EVER his fault. It's mine or his boss's or the Blacks or the Mexicans or the Indian or anything else he can blame his problems on.



fadedsmile said:


> Hypersensitivity
> An abuser can be easily insulted. The slightest setbacks are seen as personal attacks. An abuser will rage about the everyday difficulties of life as if they are injustices -- such as getting a traffic ticket or not doing well on an exam.


OMG, don't even get me started. His whole life is a living hell because of everyone ELSE. And any time DD24 or I don't show him enough attention, eat dinner before he gets home, go somewhere without asking if he wants to go, watch a recorded show without waiting for him...it's because we're using him, he's only good for his money, no one loves him, he's better off dead, he should just drive off a bridge and then we'd have his money and everyone would be happy...



fadedsmile said:


> Rigid sex roles
> Male abusers often expect women to serve and obey them.


It took me about 20 years to figure out that he simply thinks women are inferior, dumber, and have a role. Just this weekend, when he was cussing out DD24 for being at her boyfriend's an extra night instead of at home, instead of just saying he missed her, he chose to blame HER for me cleaning up her room (I like to organize things, and she leaves plenty of opportunity for that, lol), saying SHE should be at home doing that, not making ME do it. He was doing this, mind you, from a nightclub where he was doing the sound for his band. I tore him a new one for daring to say that - I said how DARE you criticize her when you do almost NOTHING at home, and I constantly clean up your socks, your shirts, your coats, your dishes, your dirty Q-tips, your trash, your papers, and everything else you leave around because I'm the woman and you're the man. That ended the conversation.



fadedsmile said:


> Jekyll-and-Hyde personality
> Explosiveness and mood swings are typical of abusers, and these behaviors are related to other traits such as hypersensitivity.


I'm ashamed to say that I ended up teaching DD to be 'aware' of what we do and how it might affect his mood. I wish I could take it back. Hell, I wish I would have left 20 years ago.


----------



## fadedsmile (Nov 4, 2013)

turnera said:


> It's interesting because I've experienced a different set of symptoms than you, but they affect me just as badly. You're smart to get out, because this is what you have to look forward to if you raise kids with him:
> 
> I got that one. In fact, my IC/our MC has said often that it's not healthy that he would be perfectly happy if the only two people he was with for the rest of his life is me and our DD24. When she was in high school, he wouldn't even let her go to the mall. And he wanted all interactions with friends to be at OUR house, so he could monitor. In fact, now that DD24 is in a real, adult relationship, he is FREAKING OUT. All kinds of aspersions as to this guy being a user (he's not), making her spend money (he's not), making her drive to his house (he's not), on and on and on...anything he can think of to make this guy look bad so she'll drop him and 'come home.' We had a HUGE blowup about it this weekend and I haven't spoken to him in 3 days. He just doesn't get it.
> 
> ...


Wow, tunera. I will say this isn't near as bad as him - though I am not married to him so he still can't feel like he has total "control". He has spoken of marriage often like he wants to obtain that step so that he "has" me... I don't know. Not anytime soon if ever! 

He has really backed off after I have become very serious and started changing my reactions to him. He can even tell something is different about me since I have started this thread (he doesn't know I did). I think he knows I have had it. It should take me getting to that point to elicit a decent response but I think he also had such anger issues from his past that he was holding on to that it was fueling his problems. Since he has sought help for that, he HAS calmed down. Not at all defending him, just saying he does seem to be trying. Of course, will it last. :scratchhead: (probably not - or he may not be capable of being what I enjoy and vice versa, not his fault).


----------



## Rooster2014 (Aug 23, 2014)

fadedsmile said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I am looking for input regarding a disagreement I am having with my significant other (SO). We have very different opinions and need some mediation for a certain situation.
> 
> ...


I agree with your husband. Jmo


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How about reading the whole thread first?


----------

