# Just need someone to talk to...



## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Hi...I apologize in advance for what I am sure will be a long post and is a common problem as well. Just that I honestly don't have I believe anyone to really talk with about this. My wife gave me the "I love you but not in love with you" statement a few weeks ago and stopped intimacy. Its been incredibly tough for me to deal with as it has been for countless others. A brief history on me to add some context and not seek empathy. Tough childhood riddled with poverty, parent's addictions, and physical/emotional abuse (mother tried to kill me...I am somewhat estranged from my parents). Studied my ass off, got a full scholarship, and got out. Fast forward and I met my wife around age 27. Got married and she wanted to work part time but mainly stay at home with the kids and raise them. Okay. But then our babysitting situation fell through and she had to quit so we were strapped for cash. Recession hit and I worked my ass off to make more money. Volunteered for toughest roles. It was so bad I recall my wife calling me one day asking if we had enough money in the bank to make the mortgage. From childhood my fear of poverty was awful so I threw everything I had into providing for my family. And yes, I was extremely stressed and developed and even shorter fuse and also became withdrawn. On Thanksgiving for example the family would sit at the table and talk for hours and I would make my way to the couch and sit alone and watch TV. I needed to retreat. My short fuse I should add didn't end with physical abuse on my family or anything but I would yell a lot and really sweat the small stuff. Get pissed about house not being clean, etc. Anyways, I didn't ever stop doing special things for the wife though. Always told her I loved her, brought home random gifts, spent what money I could on her, wrote notes, everything I could. Always has a new car in the driveway for her. Work just got worse and as work got worse my fuse and withdrawing did. I love my wife and won't bad mouth her (never call hr names or curse at her) but she did her own nasty things as well...like insult me, complain how her life sucks with staying home with the kids, and also make fun of me to be honest. She also told me she was withdrawing more as she is always exhausted and in truth she is going through early menopause. So I worked harder so she could get help and really felt awful that I was making ends meet to let her stay home but life sucked so bad for her. I also felt that I took my vows and was going to honor them. If her withdrawing was due to medical reasons, and that is how life is, I will make the best of it. A little more history. I am also a volunteer fireman (was always an athlete), a good one I might add, and in great shape. Recently, before my wife told me this, I saved several people that were in a horrific situation. It was really bad and we were short handed so a lot was on me. It was early in the AM and after the call I came home and just sat there as no one was awake yet (I should add that my wife kicked me out of bed a long time ago due to my snoring...but she recently told me that was not the only reason). I took it all in, the woman screaming for my help, the blood, the danger. Just sat there and a calm came over me after that. I felt like a failure for so long, couldn't make enough money, couldn't solve my wife's exhaustion, couldn't make her happy with her life. But the depression just went away. The anger was gone. I was honestly happy again. Felt worthy. And then I got slammed with the "statement" a week or so later. Work is also less stressed I might add as I finally "made it" and make serious $$$s and we can do everything we wanted now. I no longer sit there and not want people over or not socialize as I don't have to stress as much financially. But now I am in limbo. She says she needs time to think and distance with me not being all over her or lovey as I normally am. We talk so much now, make eye contact, and she walks around the house scantily clad from time to time. Just really not sure how to proceed. I believe in life that what you exude is contagious. Hence, if I exude love, passion, and happiness to my wife it will return. And in truth I was SO happy. But now it is awkward at times and to be honest my heart is broken and I feel pain like I haven't felt since our son passed away (another tragic event we had to cope with during our marriage). But I am not letting it bring me down. I don't let her see the pain anymore and I am trying to make the best of it. 

I don't know...sorry for the long post...just lost my friends...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Oh boy.

Quite often the "I love you, but I'm not _in love with you_" speech indicates that the partner giving the speech is cheating...

...so you might want to look into that.


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## Manchester (Oct 7, 2016)

tailrider3 said:


> We talk so much now, make eye contact, and she walks around the house scantily clad from time to time. Just really not sure how to proceed.


Dude she's making eye contact, she's talking to you a lot and she's walking around scantily clad.

Do you really need a stranger to tell you what to do with your talkative, eye contacting, scantily clad wife?

Opportunity is knocking and you're not answering the door because you're withdrawn on the couch.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

I'm with Gus. Click the link in my sig and check things out. *Do not say anything to her about it, check back here first.*


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

You know...its funny. Actually not withdrawn on the couch and never was at home. Participating and tried old ways but kicked to the curb. Just weird. Was never withdrawn from her. If anything I am way more affectionate. Think she is just playing some mind games...like see if he checks me out...but when he touches me or goes to touch me I need my space...


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## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

@tailrider3 

Gus is right. The story you just told has been told here often, and often the wife has found another man. 

Investigate. 

But beyond that, stop being a wimp. (No offense meant). Get back into you bed whether you have sex or not. Get the snoring fixed if you can. If she wants you out of the bed for other reasons then SHE can leave the bed. 

It is awesome you save lives. But consider if that takes away from the family time you need to stay married, should you continue? Get your priorities set. You might have to choose between being a firefighter or a husband, or at least a husband to this wife.


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## GTNBoom (Oct 24, 2016)

tailrider3 said:


> Hi...I apologize in advance for what I am sure will be a long post and is a common problem as well. Just that I honestly don't have I believe anyone to really talk with about this. My wife gave me the "I love you but not in love with you" statement a few weeks ago and stopped intimacy. Its been incredibly tough for me to deal with as it has been for countless others. A brief history on me to add some context and not seek empathy. Tough childhood riddled with poverty, parent's addictions, and physical/emotional abuse (mother tried to kill me...I am somewhat estranged from my parents). Studied my ass off, got a full scholarship, and got out. Fast forward and I met my wife around age 27. Got married and she wanted to work part time but mainly stay at home with the kids and raise them. Okay. But then our babysitting situation fell through and she had to quit so we were strapped for cash. Recession hit and I worked my ass off to make more money. Volunteered for toughest roles. It was so bad I recall my wife calling me one day asking if we had enough money in the bank to make the mortgage. From childhood my fear of poverty was awful so I threw everything I had into providing for my family. And yes, I was extremely stressed and developed and even shorter fuse and also became withdrawn. On Thanksgiving for example the family would sit at the table and talk for hours and I would make my way to the couch and sit alone and watch TV. I needed to retreat. My short fuse I should add didn't end with physical abuse on my family or anything but I would yell a lot and really sweat the small stuff. Get pissed about house not being clean, etc. Anyways, I didn't ever stop doing special things for the wife though. Always told her I loved her, brought home random gifts, spent what money I could on her, wrote notes, everything I could. Always has a new car in the driveway for her. Work just got worse and as work got worse my fuse and withdrawing did. I love my wife and won't bad mouth her (never call hr names or curse at her) but she did her own nasty things as well...like insult me, complain how her life sucks with staying home with the kids, and also make fun of me to be honest. She also told me she was withdrawing more as she is always exhausted and in truth she is going through early menopause. So I worked harder so she could get help and really felt awful that I was making ends meet to let her stay home but life sucked so bad for her. I also felt that I took my vows and was going to honor them. If her withdrawing was due to medical reasons, and that is how life is, I will make the best of it. A little more history. I am also a volunteer fireman (was always an athlete), a good one I might add, and in great shape. Recently, before my wife told me this, I saved several people that were in a horrific situation. It was really bad and we were short handed so a lot was on me. It was early in the AM and after the call I came home and just sat there as no one was awake yet (I should add that my wife kicked me out of bed a long time ago due to my snoring...but she recently told me that was not the only reason). I took it all in, the woman screaming for my help, the blood, the danger. Just sat there and a calm came over me after that. I felt like a failure for so long, couldn't make enough money, couldn't solve my wife's exhaustion, couldn't make her happy with her life. But the depression just went away. The anger was gone. I was honestly happy again. Felt worthy. And then I got slammed with the "statement" a week or so later. Work is also less stressed I might add as I finally "made it" and make serious $$$s and we can do everything we wanted now. I no longer sit there and not want people over or not socialize as I don't have to stress as much financially. But now I am in limbo. She says she needs time to think and distance with me not being all over her or lovey as I normally am. We talk so much now, make eye contact, and she walks around the house scantily clad from time to time. Just really not sure how to proceed. I believe in life that what you exude is contagious. Hence, if I exude love, passion, and happiness to my wife it will return. And in truth I was SO happy. But now it is awkward at times and to be honest my heart is broken and I feel pain like I haven't felt since our son passed away (another tragic event we had to cope with during our marriage). But I am not letting it bring me down. I don't let her see the pain anymore and I am trying to make the best of it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know...sorry for the long post...just lost my friends...




Well I can tell you a few things 

1. Women live in the moment and the moment is always changing. She may not feel "in love" with you now, but if you behave in the right ways she can have loving feelings for you again.

2. Women just "lose it" after they are constrained or pent up too long. That's what's happening here. She needs to "breathe" and you need to let her. Give her space , don't he needy, no relationship talk. No pressure. Pressure will jus cause her to pull away from you more. 

3. Support her. If you love someone you want what's best for her. Support her in what she needs. Supporting her will make her feeeeel that you care for her. Trust me I know.

4. Be a free and loving man. That means you can love her but you can never need a woman. You love her regardless of how she feels for you. That's what free and loving is.

5. Be a strong and masculine man. Be unaffected by her moods and storms. If she's distant don't ask her why. If she's moody and down don't let it affect you. The man's role is to exude calmness, stability and be a rock that the female can trust to guide her. A strong masculine man does not let his woman's moods bring him down. He is caring, kind and nice - but never needy or pushy or controlling. Behave in this manner and she will start to trust you again.

6. More later to come 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Thanks GTN. Really appreciate the advice. I tried to be as concise as I could be in the opening of the thread, but, I know my problem was that I became too "rough" lets say and would get pissed at everything and in her words "controlling" and made her feel less equal. I got jealous because in truth actions she took made me think and pissed me off. But you are so right on the other things about no relationship talk and stuff. You see, although I was rough, I always bought flowers, random gifts, did things around the house, cooked, cleaned, whatever (and repaired the things I would smash from time to time). So now naturally, since she is upset, I ramped it up a little as I feel bad. And of course as I have done that, and have changed my behaviors (since the accident..prior to her giving me the "statement") she told me straight out that it is having the opposite affect and to stop. She questions the sincerity. All things that I read would happen. But I tell you it is hard, being a man of action, to sit back and not do anything. They tell us all the time in the fire service that one day you will have to sit there and let something burn. It will be impossibly hard not to take action but you need to. Its a weird spot to be in. So, for now, any thoughts on the best course of action? We do sit and talk and make intense eye contact (like where we stare at each other straight in the face for what seems like forever). I plan to still be polite and have basic conversations, like how was your day?, but don't want to further push her away.


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## GTNBoom (Oct 24, 2016)

Well first women need to feel "free" 
So any controlling behavior , whether it comes with gifts and kind gestures - will doom you.

What you have to do now is absorb and support, and not be needy. No anger, no questions, no pressure. 

Make her feel free but at the same time support her. 

You can be kind and caring but it has to be not overdone. Your goal now is to now is to simply make her feel comfortable and relaxed and calm. So that she feels safe and relaxed being around you. 

At the same time, no neediness, no pushy or clingy behavior. 

And you must show no jealousy and no spying. Be unaffected by what she does. A woman can't trust a insecure and weak man. 

Next phase comes after this. You must master this first 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Thanks GTN for the uber quick reply. Uh oh...asking a bull in a china closet to walk a fine line. Seriously though thanks and I will take your advice...and keep you posted.


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## GTNBoom (Oct 24, 2016)

Women need a calm, strong and stable man. 

Erratic and emotional men cause them to cycle. Cycle meaning have emotional ups and downs. 

Women can't handle pressure like men. And their feeling of being "safe" is much different as well. Erratic and angry behavior from a man makes them instinctively feel "non safe" and of course then they can't trust you either. 

You just be cunning and smart here. Anger and "action" will not do the trick. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## notmyrealname4 (Apr 9, 2014)

.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

GTNBoom gave you good advice, this is exactly what you should do _while you're investigating_. Do not under any circumstances assume you understand your situation and try to fix it without verifying she hasn't brought another person in. What you do to fix it if she's cheating is pretty much the opposite of what you do to fix it if she's not.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Do investigate to try and find out if there is indeed another man in the mix. 

It sounds to me like your wife NEEDS to work. Are all your children in school full time? If so, then she should find a job, even if it is part time. 

While I commend you for your change in attitude, your wife may still very well be traumatized by your past anger issues. I know I would be. I WAS, actually...I managed to marry TWO men with anger issues. (divorced both) She may not trust that the angry man is gone. See if she would go to counseling with you to at least TRY to fix things.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

So...quick update. Have taken some professional and layman advice which I appreciate on both ends. Things have gotten WAY better in the past few weeks. I have tried to my utmost to practice patience and respect her space as well as remain calm (which has actually been really easy since I saved those folks back in August). As opposed to my normal self who would just pick up my wife and carry her like a cave man, or tell her how beautiful she is regularly (she's a model...its really hard for me not to...seriously) I have been all business but not in a cold sort of way. In turn, she has actually come around to me and now initiates conversation, sits and watches TV with me, etc. I don't believe that there is another man but I do believe that someone was whispering in her head about how bad I was and to move along to be happy. In truth, I did give her **** about things I thought were reasonable but with the stress of work and stuff probably did go overboard. My personality got amplified and not in the best way...I am aggressive, disciplined, and a perfectionist (maybe the German in me) and hold a high bar for myself and others. I can be cold, rough, and non-sympathetic and I realize that is fine around the guys but with the women not so much.

It has been really hard to change but so far so good. One thing though that does tick me off is that I have always been tough and independent and never need help from her unless I am totally incapacitated (like after surgery). But i recently had some medical tests done that of course can be nothing or indicate I have some serious issues. Given my high protein diet and creatine supplementation they came back a little whacky and I have to go for additional analysis. Not once did she ask about the tests and the results. I know she forgot especially now given our issues, but, this is how it has always been. And in truth...everyone tends to treat me that way given my stature and personality...he's fine, he doesn't need help he's a man (actual quote from my FD officer during a call) but with the family I take it as disrepectful and uncaring.

We'll see...as they say...that which does not kill me only makes me stronger. Thanks again for listening and for the support.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

How do you know she isn't cheating? Did you verify this, or is this more oh she would never do something like that?

"I love you but I'm not in love with you" is the basic cheater's motto.

I'm late to the party, you were given advice immediately that she could be cheating but I noticed you purposely DIDNT address those comments from posters who suggested it. Tells me you would rather bury your head in the sand than find out the truth.

look, she may be cheating, she may not. But do yourself a favor and reasonably investigate. You yourself just said somebody could be whispering sweet nothings into her ear about you. That in and of itself is a big red flag- she's taking energy she should be spending on you on this person instead.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## winterwinds (Nov 5, 2016)

GusPolinski said:


> Oh boy.
> 
> Quite often the "I love you, but I'm not _in love with you_" speech indicates that the partner giving the speech is cheating...
> 
> ...so you might want to look into that.


 I'm afraid this could be true also. MAYBE try and find out what you can with this. That speech has cheating written all over it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Three things. First, how much do you communicate? About all kinds of things. You should be discussing everything. 

Two, get this book and read it, to understand how your marriage is supposed to go. His Needs Her Needs.

Three, women typically like to be needed. Unless she's just totally not typical, it would make her feel good to be able to help you in some ways.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Actually, I did a lot of investigation but did not get into it here for various reasons. ALL of the basics checked out. The cell phone is locked up with fingerprint security for good reason and I don't access her accounts. Been toying with a PI but still thinking about it. Personally, sounds like one of the girlfriends was whispering in her ear but you never know for sure unless you go deep...hmmmm....


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## memyselfandi (Jan 10, 2012)

It's great that you are doing your best to change. Sounds like your marriage is worth saving.

I'm sure your wife DOES want to ask how you are, regarding your tests and all, but knowing you..she knows better.

You can't be one way today..and another way tomorrow.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think counselling might be of benefit, couple's and individual for you to help you get through your issues from the past.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

All good points. I totally think my marriage is worth saving unless she cheated as that is my personal line. Actually, we always communicated pretty openly about things and would joke/kid one another. Looking back though, I could see the joking/kidding being less playful and, as she knows how to push my buttons, more hurtful (which I would react to...ain't a doormat). She is an awesome person and a great mother so totally worth the effort although I admittedly struggle from time to time.

With regards to needs, she comes across all rough and tumble as she is very fit but inside she is very delicate and gentle. For instance, if there is an issue and confrontation is needed, even the smallest like arguing over a bill, she would ask me to do it which is fine. My needs in general though rank pretty low on the order of things because of the way I am and her personality. I'd say its kids, her family, her fitness, then me. If we had a pet it would replace me or at least that's how I feel. And yes...I told her this as well. 

We'll see how/if things change after all of this...and thanks to all for your thoughts thus far...


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Been doing individual counseling for me. I am way too assertive otherwise and would have failed miserably. Its been helping me tremendously to be honest.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

One thing to remember about being the spouse who 'doesn't need as much' - attention, kudos, affection, kind words, whatever: the other person, who DOES need more, will LET you not need as much. And will nearly always start spreading over into your 'territory' in terms of who gets the bulk of the attention/kudos/affection/words/whatever. Maybe subconsciously, but it still happens. So the 'lesser need' person starts getting shafted - and resentful.

Bottom line, it's fine that you're not high maintenance. But for your sake, and for the sake of the marriage, you have to keep an eye on that balance.

Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


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## emmasmith (Aug 11, 2016)

From my opinion, you should go for couple counseling! Couples workshop provides opportunity for you to understand relationship differently.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

turnera said:


> One thing to remember about being the spouse who 'doesn't need as much' - attention, kudos, affection, kind words, whatever: the other person, who DOES need more, will LET you not need as much. And will nearly always start spreading over into your 'territory' in terms of who gets the bulk of the attention/kudos/affection/words/whatever. Maybe subconsciously, but it still happens. So the 'lesser need' person starts getting shafted - and resentful.
> 
> Bottom line, it's fine that you're not high maintenance. But for your sake, and for the sake of the marriage, you have to keep an eye on that balance.
> 
> Have you read No More Mr Nice Guy yet?


Thanks and sorry for the late reply. No...haven't read the book yet and you are right about your attention comments.

As an update, to be honest, things are going well and I have been practicing a lot of what my "coach" has been saying: even keeled, not needy, give space, etc. I'm shocked that it actually is working. Here comes my pity party, lol....but the hardest thing for me, right now as I type, is that I just came back from 3 alarms back to back to back. One was serious and another could have been. Sitting alone as everyone is still asleep (I started at 4am) it is really hard to think my wife and I did not say "I Love you..." before bed as we normally would and I could have died. Tough and tough not to give her a hug when she gets up soon as that just washes away the stress I just went through. We are so close to that point again and I can see it in her eyes and actions. Just hard.

Oh well...going to take my pre-workout and toss around some iron...

Thanks again everyone. The TAM community has been so helpful for me and I appreciate it.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

So...although things are going well...decided to dig deeper. Once the seed is planted it is hard to get out of your head as everything can be 50/50...besides...don't want to waste money on Xmas if I don't need to...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Check your phone bill at this time you don't know what you're dealing with. 

You can work on yourself but it won't matter much if there is someone else in the mix.

Burying your head in the sand at this time won't help you much.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Week one down...one potential anomaly with parking location. Will look for a pattern. Bills checked and cross referenced...for most part...just one I need to get a hold of. Will keep you posted...

Going dark...


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Tail,

Go dark but do not stop snooping. If you google "Signs your wife is cheating" you will find locked down cell phone and phone guarding right at the top of the list. i think you should spend more time getting to the truth than beating yourself up or rationalizing and worrying about what she says. If cheating is a deal breaker for you you must find that out first.

The little speech about not loving you that way is right in the pattern of another man being involved in some way here as others have told you. Stop trying to nice her back UNTIL you get some answers that YOU can verify.

your behavior ( blaming yourself instead of facing it head on) is also quite common and predictable. Stop it!!!

hope you get some answers


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

straightshooter said:


> Tail,
> 
> Go dark but do not stop snooping. If you google "Signs your wife is cheating" you will find locked down cell phone and phone guarding right at the top of the list. i think you should spend more time getting to the truth than beating yourself up or rationalizing and worrying about what she says. If cheating is a deal breaker for you you must find that out first.
> 
> ...


Thanks. Working on it. Still investigating hard. Got some access to what I needed and what was shocking was the 6,800 messages on the cell bill in one month. Simply shocking. Don't think I can get what I need without a visual at this point given the phone lockdown and all. Just need a pattern.


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Tail,

6800 messages in one month. Do you really believe that can be "innocent"????? Remember, you are NOT in a court of law. You get to be judge, jury, and if needed executioner.

Lockdown of phone and that many messages is enough to demand a polygraph. Her reaction, even if you have no intention of doing it, will tell you a lot. My guises is she will fall out of her chair.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

tailrider3 said:


> Thanks. Working on it. Still investigating hard. Got some access to what I needed and what was shocking was the 6,800 messages on the cell bill in one month. Simply shocking. Don't think I can get what I need without a visual at this point given the phone lockdown and all. Just need a pattern.


6800 messages a month = EA at a minimum. Clearly she is cheating.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

tailrider3 said:


> Thanks. Working on it. Still investigating hard. Got some access to what I needed and what was shocking was the 6,800 messages on the cell bill in one month. Simply shocking. Don't think I can get what I need without a visual at this point given the phone lockdown and all. Just need a pattern.


I'm guessing there's a single number that she's texting more than any other.

Is the number local?

Either way, there are a couple of services (Spokeo and Intelius) that may help you -- for a small fee -- get more information w/ respect to who owns the number.

You can also try running a Google search against the number (with dashes).

I'd also recommend searching Facebook for the number -- enter the number (again, with dashes) into the FB search bar and press Enter / tap Search. If anyone has that number associated w/ his/her profile, and has that information listed as Public (or is in your Friends/"friend of friends" list), you'll be able to see the profile.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> I'm guessing there's a single number that's she's texting more than any other.
> 
> Is the number local?
> 
> ...



Pay attention to this excellent advice. it will cost you LESS than $30. I want to hear the explanation as to how 6800 texts to a number that you have no clue about is innocent if most of them are the same number.

You might also do one of the following
(1) call the number from a phone that is not yours. Sorry if i missed if you have already done this
(2) if you can get to see her phone look at the contacts to see if that number is in there under a name you do not recognize.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

naiveonedave said:


> 6800 messages a month = EA at a minimum. Clearly she is cheating.[/Q
> 
> Not being naive but she has her own business where she provides consultation so a % could go to that but I agree...red flag. Working on access to the numbers.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

tailrider3 said:


> naiveonedave said:
> 
> 
> > 6800 messages a month = EA at a minimum. Clearly she is cheating.[/Q
> ...


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

turnera said:


> tailrider3 said:
> 
> 
> > That should be easy to clarify once you see who the numbers belong to. If she's texting one client 3000 or 4000 times and only getting paid $250, she's a bad businesswoman.
> ...


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Also...does anyone know if messaging on the bill includes Facebook messenger? If so, how are those contacts or numbers displayed?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

tailrider3 said:


> My needs in general though rank pretty low on the order of things because of the way I am and her personality. I'd say its kids, her family, her fitness, then me. If we had a pet it would replace me or at least that's how I feel. And yes...I told her this as well.
> 
> We'll see how/if things change after all of this...and thanks to all for your thoughts thus far...


I see my younger self in you. Being retired military and a rough and tumble character, I pushed my wife's feelings aside for years.

We were/are not compatible in so many areas. Neither are you two. But, now you are willing to try. Good! 

Age has slowed me down. However, my Peter Pan character refuses to leave [the building that nestles in my thick skull].

Your wife's priorities? Kids, her family, her fitness, phantom dog?

Call this her "order of precedence". These positions have been established and adhered to for a good reason. They make sense.I approve of her priorities. She is being thoughtful.

Why aren't you on that list? You are. You told us that you are at the end. That is where you wanted to be...........before. But, not now.

She can count on you for the important things. You are stable and dependable. She has plenty to worry about without you being a priority.

This sounds cold. It is cold. But you bought the refrigerator, dragged it down to the Man Cave and climbed in.

Solution: Be more vulnerable, friendly, attentive. Don't smother her, don't take her for granted. These have been hard things for me [to do]. They will likely be hard for you, also.

It was worth it to me. Be worth it to her...and to yourself.

As far as her cheating? Trust but verify. Be low key in any snooping. 

I wish you well. 

Good Luck, Happy Thanksgiving.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

tailrider3 said:


> Also...does anyone know if messaging on the bill includes Facebook messenger? If so, how are those contacts or numbers displayed?


Nope, that is an app, so will not show on your bill.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Damn. Does not include messenger? Something is way off then. Way off.

An jb02157 I agree brother. That is my story to a T. Busted my ass only to get calls while she hangs out by our backyard pool in the summer, getting all tan, telling me how her life sucks as she has to deal with the kids being home. Meanwhile, I am literally running to meetings and working 60hrs or so per week. They have nothing to want for...never have to say wait to get this or that. Clawed my way to the top and yeah, stressed out hard. Took calls on vacations, and ruined them for me at least, as I HAD TO...no choice...(think like Wells Fargo...all big corps are like that in one way or the other).

Just venting...

If there is really something at the bottom of this rabbit hole I think I will have to do the Darth Vader reaction when Pad Mei (?) died...got on his knees and screamed "Noooooooooo...." as I fought really hard and really long to get here.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Are you looking at the phone bill online? Make sure your looking at the *detail* usage. Most cell phone providers have this. All phone numbers should be there.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Speaking as a moderator:

Making generalizations about a gender in a negative way is not okay, nor is the thread jack that normally ensues from such posts.

Please refrain from doing so.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Tobyboy said:


> Are you looking at the phone bill online? Make sure your looking at the *detail* usage. Most cell phone providers have this. All phone numbers should be there.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Amazingly that is the only bill I do not have access to yet...but pay for...working on it. Stupid me was not set up as owner...but paid for out of our joint and only account (which is funded 99% from my income as the other business does not make that much).


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## straightshooter (Dec 27, 2015)

Tail,

If you do not get anything from the phone ****, its time for a VAR in her car and a GPS on it. You will have your answers in less than a week. If she is having an inappropriate relationship with someone she is texting that many times, you can take it to the bank they are talking on her cell phone while she is away from the house.

So far, Tunera has pointed out she is a ****ty business woman with that many texts for $250. But no one has come up with an explanation of how this can be nothing to be concerned about that makes any sense.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

GPS in play. May deploy VAR (purchased). No minutes for real calls on the cell...seems to be all text.


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## mitchell (May 19, 2014)

Call your cell phone company and see if you can have access to your detailed cell phone bill including the text numbers. If they require your wife's permission, I would explain to your wife that she needs to give you permission to see the cell phone records. If she has nothing to hide, she should be more than happy to provide you with access. If she balks and refuses, you have your answer that she is hiding something nefarious.

6000 messages in a month is an incredible number. She's having a lot of text interaction with someone and it isn't you.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

mitchell said:


> Call your cell phone company and see if you can have access to your detailed cell phone bill including the text numbers. If they require your wife's permission, I would explain to your wife that she needs to give you permission to see the cell phone records. If she has nothing to hide, she should be more than happy to provide you with access. If she balks and refuses, you have your answer that she is hiding something nefarious.
> 
> 6000 messages in a month is an incredible number. She's having a lot of text interaction with someone and it isn't you.


Before you do this, check if an online account has been set up. If there's an account already made, you can try logging in with her phone number as the username. Then use a password that she commonly uses. If possible, do this at night when she's asleep, so not to alert her if she has notifications setup to alert her if someone logs in to (her) account. 

If an online account is not made yet. You can make one by just the account number on the bill. 

What kind of phone does she have? iPhone? Android?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Android. Called cell company won't set me up without account owner permission (online account is already setup and she has alerts about logging in from an unusual device). Also, will press the wireless bill after Thanksgiving as you are right: nothing to hide should be no issues. No need to ruin the holiday for the kids although in truth this is eating at me. Trying to keep a good face but not easy. Everyone can tell I am not myself. Struck me the other day at work as someone came up to me and asked if I was okay as I looked sad.

Happy Thanksgiving to all of you by the way...


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Android phone......then she must have a google account! Do you know the username and password? 

You can get a lot of information if you can login. Heck, if she got a android tablet you can try there, she might be login already. Also the PC.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

Yeah...don't know any of the passwords my friend. Never really cared. Despite her comments that I would be controlling, etc...never once asked for passwords or checked accounts. Did I look on social media once in a while to see what was going on? Sure. That is natural and I think smart in general when you see someone texting so much. But any further? No.

The tablet is a good call. Not sure if anything is on permanent log in but will see. Just can't log in from a "foreign" device as google sends those alerts.


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## tailrider3 (Oct 22, 2016)

so...picked up some private or inactive IDs viewing my facebook profile. Any idea how to get the names behind these id's?


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The preeminent reason for decline in sex within a marital relationship is that one of the spouses has left the union because of some conceived or ill-conceived marriage flaw, and has accordingly always found themselves yet another outlet for it, albeit with someone who is either not real easy on the eyes, but excites them sexually, or they may have mistakenly thought that they had traded up to "looker," who sorely disappoints in the department of banging!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## philreag (Apr 2, 2015)

One year ago my Thanksgiving was ruined by getting ILYBINILWY, no sex or affection, and 200 texts in 20 days to an unknown number. 

I am better, not fixed, after time and following the advice of the people on this site. 

Good luck, be strong.


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