# Masturbation



## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

Wife told me that masturbation is a perverted thing to do. To my knowledge she has never masturbated. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. Thoughts?


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

What is her source for this information? Religious--not mine? Parents--nope? 6th grade sex ed?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Even in the Bible men masturbated. They were told to not go to synagogue if they masturbated the night before. It didn't mean they were never to go, just to not go within that 24 hour period (sundown to sundown.) It didn't insinuate that they were sinning either, just ceremonially unclean. It was no different than if someone had touched the carcass of a dead animal...they were ceremonially unclean until sundown.

I don't think it is wrong for women to masturbate either.

IMO it is not evil or perverted. When it is cumpulsive or interferes with or replaces intimacy with a spouse it is wrong, however. If one is thinking lustful thoughts about someone other than their own spouse while doing it it is adultery. 

She may resent that you are doing it and she is trying to guilt you out of it.

Tell her that you will stop if she makes herself a happy participant in fun encounters with you at regular intervals. Otherwise, you must do something to keep your seminal fluids flowing so you don't end up with prostate cancer.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Thoughts, hmm, I’m pro, I’m a pervert, I’d believe her, run.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Spartan01 said:


> Thoughts?


Thank your wife for her insight.

Then start having sex with other people.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

That thinking may explain why you're in a sexless marriage. I would ask her: "Why do you think that?" then be silent until she answers. Is she not aware that most people do masturbate? Men in particular pretty much physically NEED to if they're in a sexless marriage.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

It amazes me that here we are living in the 21st century and we still allow religion dogma to mess up our bodies natural functions. Tell your wife to either take care of you every time you feel the urge or shut up.


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## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Well if you aren't attracted to your wife haven't initiated any sex in 14 months. I hope your wife has been having sex with other people.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Spartan01 said:


> Wife told me that masturbation is a perverted thing to do. To my knowledge she has never masturbated. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. Thoughts?


All I know is that you significantly increase your chances of prostate cancer if you neither have sex nor masturbate. As her if she will use her hands on you instead of you using your own hands. Would it look better to her?

Sex was designed into human life for good reasons and there are several good health reasons and they all pertain to individual well being.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Spartan01 said:


> Wife told me that masturbation is a perverted thing to do. To my knowledge she has never masturbated. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. Thoughts?


Did you talk to this woman at all about sex before you married her?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Personal said:


> Spartan01 said:
> 
> 
> > Thoughts?
> ...


This is disgusting and pathetic advice.

That said, if she is not going to have sex with you, then she has not left you much choice but to take care of things yourself. She doesn't get to object to masturbation and withhold sex from you. She is being profoundly selfish.

OK, I should have read more. If your wife knows you are not at all attracted to her and you never initiate sex, then you've kind of created your own problem. Why are you not attracted to your wife? And why don't you leave her or so the both of you can find someone who values you.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

The inherent problem with masturbation is that it's a self-centered activity, and we were created to be other-centered. 

We can misuse it just as we can misuse our eyes or our minds or our words.

To me, it's simply another area of personal responsibility.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

I dont' know if y'all recall Spartan's other thread. 

He married his wife knowing he was not attracted to her.

Knowing that, i have zero inclination to wade into this morass with him. Since he's not into her, even if he could solve this problem or bring her around, what's the point? There are issues here that make her being prudish no more than a mere side show.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Find someone more sex positive that embraces sexuality and wants to have a sex life with you.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I dont' know if y'all recall Spartan's other thread.
> 
> He married his wife knowing he was not attracted to her.
> 
> Knowing that, i have zero inclination to wade into this morass with him. Since he's not into her, even if he could solve this problem or bring her around, what's the point? There are issues here that make her being prudish no more than a mere side show.


Yeah....he really chose this. So tough luck.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> That thinking may explain why you're in a sexless marriage. I would ask her: "Why do you think that?" then be silent until she answers. Is she not aware that most people do masturbate? Men in particular pretty much physically NEED to if they're in a sexless marriage.


A wonderful answer.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


Sure it's a "reason" to divorce... It's a much better reason to not get married in the first place. At this point you sound so disappointed in her that it's probably cruel to both of you for you to *remain *married to her.

But *why are you not at all attracted to your wife*? Were you attracted to her before you married her? After 14 months with NO sex, I'd think Missionary would feel pretty damned good. Heck, I think it feels good after just a few hours with no sex. 

I think the heart of the problem lies in why you are not attracted to her. How are you supposed to enjoy any type of sex with someone you're not attracted to? And how is SHE supposed to enjoy it with someone who clearly is not into her? Why would she initiate or go all doggy-style, ride-em-cowgirl (or whatever) on you when she can feel you aren't turned on by her? 

I don't know if she never had a sexual side to her, but if she did, sensing your disinterest in her would be sure to kill it.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Spartan01 said:


> Wife told me that masturbation is a perverted thing to do. To my knowledge she has never masturbated. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. Thoughts?


It's not perverted. Done as a substitute for sex in a marriage, it isn't healthy. It's not a solution to the underlying problem of a sexless "marriage". You need to focus on fixing that problem, not on whether masturbation is perverted or not.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

It sounds like your wife is interested in improving your sex life and thinks your masterbation is interfering with it. She's probably correct!

Respectfully, you must really be in to porn and masturbating to find it preferable to your wife. I suspect she's not that unattractive but rather your brain is warped from years and years of porn.

You might also be holding on to some serious resentments and or hangups regarding sex.

Masturbating is just a band-aid for the weak willed.... you should have spent the time focusing on how to improve your marriage.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

WorkingWife said:


> After 14 months with NO sex, I'd think Missionary would feel pretty damned good. Heck, I think it feels good after just a few hours with no sex.


Sex with someone who's not interested in it and I don't have a good emotional connection with is bad sex to me. There's no enjoyment, and in fact I feel bad about doing it in the first place. The negative thoughts and feelings greatly overwhelm any pleasurable sensation from the stimulated nerve endings. In that scenario, masturbation is 1000% better.

Of course, the right thing for the marriage described by the OP is probably to divorce. If someone is making the choice to masturbate instead of having sex with their spouse, there's not a whole lot of good reasons to continue staying married.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


Herein lies the problem. It is not your wife. If you have not ever been attracted to her that would explain her disinterest in sex with you. She picks up on your disintrest in her.

If you can't get excited about her, then the problem is you. My husband loves the "missionary" position no less than any other. If that were all he got he'd be happy to be having sex, period. You are the problem, not her.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

better living through modern pharmaceuticals!


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Lostinthought61 said:


> It amazes me that here we are living in the 21st century and we still allow religion dogma to mess up our bodies natural functions. Tell your wife to either take care of you every time you feel the urge or shut up.


I think you are just having a dig at religion on this one. I have worked with many communities that do not have a religion that you may recognise. All peoples that I have worked with discourage masturbation without quoting any religion. In fact religion allows it without necessarily encouraging it. I had two grandmothers like everyone else when I was a child. One specifically told me several times, not to touch myself down there because it causes diseases. The other never said anything. They were of the same religion. 

St Augustan, the main author of the catholic Church had masturbation as his pass time. He is the man who has written condemning it without linking his condemnation to religion. 

Most tribes in different locations, which are not linked to religions you may know, discourage it. Girls are discouraged a little more than boys, for fear that they may damage their virginity.

Girls start earlier than boys and statistically, 95% of humans do it or have done and the 5% are telling lies. Most married women do it while having sex with their husbands, to enhance the pleasure, or alone when he is not available, or just after sex if he falls asleep before they have an orgasm when they need one. This is not a secret Most married women have been there and some are there regularly if the man is selfish. It is one of the most common complaint from women. 

Religion is not a factor on this one. Just that most ignorant Psychologists like to blame religion for every Psychological problem their clients experience.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


I feel for your wife. She is trapped in a totally loveless, respectless, marriage. Why did you marry her if you did not want her to this extend? There is nothing wrong with the missionary position. It is a come close position which the majority of humans actually use regularly. The others are used but are not as common. 

She really should have filed for divorce. Once in 14 month is like what happen to those whose spouses are in prison but allowed a rare visit what they call a FAMILY VISIT meaning they can have sex. It is very sad for her.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> That thinking may explain why you're in a sexless marriage. I would ask her: "Why do you think that?" then be silent until she answers. Is she not aware that most people do masturbate? Men in particular pretty much physically NEED to if they're in a sexless marriage.


Not sure what you mean by "need to", but I don't know of any physical effects of forgoing sex.


MaiChi said:


> All I know is that you significantly increase your chances of prostate cancer if you neither have sex nor masturbate.


According to the Mayo Clinic:
"At this time, there is no conclusive evidence that frequent ejaculation reduces the risk of prostate cancer."

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...r/expert-answers/prostate-cancer/faq-20057800



> As her if she will use her hands on you instead of you using your own hands. Would it look better to her?
> 
> Sex was designed into human life for good reasons and there are several good health reasons and they all pertain to individual well being.


As someone who believes in evolution, I don't believe we were designed at all.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

SpinyNorman said:


> Not sure what you mean by "need to", but I don't know of any physical effects of forgoing sex.


Maybe "need" was not the precise word to use. The hormone testosterone is largely responsible for sex drive. Most men have a lot of it and it is my understanding that it causes the urge to have sex. If they don't have anyone to have sex with, going to long without at least masturbating can get very distracting and uncomfortable.

They've actually done studies where they gave women testosterone and the women's sex drives increased to where they wanted sex all the time. The women in the study said is was really annoying and they were so glad they were not men.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

WorkingWife said:


> Maybe "need" was not the precise word to use. The hormone testosterone is largely responsible for sex drive. Most men have a lot of it and it is my understanding that it causes the urge to have sex. If they don't have anyone to have sex with, going to long without at least masturbating can get very distracting and uncomfortable.
> 
> They've actually done studies where they gave women testosterone and the women's sex drives increased to where they wanted sex all the time. *The women in the study said is was really annoying and they were so glad they were not men.*


This made me laugh. How many times a day do men think about sex? 100? more? I'm glad I'm not a man. There are so many things to think about other than sex! I like sex when I have it, but it doesn't fill my mind when my husband isn't around.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

SpinyNorman said:


> Not sure what you mean by "need to", but I don't know of any physical effects of forgoing sex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Spiny:

Just who's side are you on?!?

LOL


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Araucaria said:


> This made me laugh. How many times a day do men think about sex? 100? more? I'm glad I'm not a man. There are so many things to think about other than sex! I like sex when I have it, but it doesn't fill my mind when my husband isn't around.


In my teens through thirties? Easy thirty to fifty times a day.

Now? Maybe ten'ish.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> In my teens through thirties? Easy thirty to fifty times a day.
> 
> Now? Maybe ten'ish.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


I'm a woman but in my teens and 20's? If I wasn't focused on something like work, I was thinking about sex. Easily 20, 30 times a day. I still think it's different for men and women though. Here's a conversation I had with my BF to illustrate:

Me: "I was having this great sexual fantasy about you the other day."
Him: "Tell me about it! I want all the details!"
Me: "OK! So it was winter time and I had rented this cabin in the woods and..."
Him: (perplexed and borderline outraged) "Wait. *There's a PLOT? * You said this was a sexual fantasy. Why aren't we having sex?"
Me: "Well yes, but there has to be a _*reason *_we're having sex..."
Him: "Never mind. You don't have to tell me."
Me: "But wait, it gets better. So I rented this cabin for a vacation but what I didn't know..." 
Him: "That's okay babe, let's just watch some TV..."

LOL. Maybe I should tie him up and force him to listen to the entire excruciating story. >


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> Maybe "need" was not the precise word to use. The hormone testosterone is largely responsible for sex drive. Most men have a lot of it and it is my understanding that it causes the urge to have sex. If they don't have anyone to have sex with, going to long without at least masturbating can get very distracting and uncomfortable.
> 
> They've actually done studies where they gave women testosterone and the women's sex drives increased to where they wanted sex all the time. The women in the study said is was really annoying and they were so glad they were not men.


At one point my wife was given testosterone by her DO. 

She said she could hardly function through the day for thinking about sex. She found it quite uncomfortable and rather disconcerting.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

WorkingWife said:


> I'm a woman but in my teens and 20's? If I wasn't focused on something like work, I was thinking about sex. Easily 20, 30 times a day. I still think it's different for men and women though. Here's a conversation I had with my BF to illustrate:
> 
> Me: "I was having this great sexual fantasy about you the other day."
> Him: "Tell me about it! I want all the details!"
> ...


Sounds good to me. I don't think all men would react that way.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Araucaria said:


> This made me laugh. How many times a day do men think about sex? 100? more? I'm glad I'm not a man. There are so many things to think about other than sex! I like sex when I have it, but it doesn't fill my mind when my husband isn't around.


Sex isn't the only thing I think about, but it is always on mind.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

If the plot started with we rented this cabin, my first thought would be did we have the boat with us, and will the bait shop be open early enough?

😍😍

I kind of agree a a good sexual fantasy being told by a woman mostly, not always, starts of as "I was nekkid, or almost nekkid, and... "

Now I'm kind of kidding, because I've heard some good ones by Mrs. Ragnar and hung in there, all were better by the middle and ending.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

Then count me as a pervert. I was taught that masturbation is a normal and healthy thing. Just do not do it in public, and keep it to yourself. To hear an attitude like that, takes me back to my grandparents who were of another darker age. Lenny Bruce, in his landmark autobiography, "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People", said that he was told that if he jerked off, his hands would turn to wings and all he could do is fan it. I was told alternately that it would wither, blacken and fall off, or that my hands would grow hair, or I would go blind. Well, I still have hands, it hasn't fallen off, and I have no appreciable hair on my hands, just one finger that was amputated, and they grafted a piece of my butt on there. Nobody told them that my butt, at the age of 14 would grow some fairly dense hair. So I have a fingertip that occasionally sprouts a hair. (I am not allowed to use that finger to touch my wife)


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Spartan01 said:


> Wife told me that masturbation is a perverted thing to do. To my knowledge she has never masturbated. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. Thoughts?


Jesus, where did you meet this woman - in a convent?


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


I think a sexless marriage (when initiated by one spouse) is pretty much akin to infidelity. They are both selfish acts that destroy marriage bonds. What would you do if you found out your wife was having an affair?


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Sounds good to me. I don't think all men would react that way.


It was pretty funny in real life. He's very efficiency minded and he's still in training. We're still working on his lessons that letting me talk is *not *wasting my time.


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## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

I was once into her. Very much so but after being rejected and yelled at about “all I think about is sex” I gave up. I can tell you for a fact that she has never masterbated. She has even told me that sex is a take it or leave it sort of thing for her. I’ve even told her that a healthy sex life is part of a marriage. Nothing. So what do you do.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Spartan01 said:


> I was once into her. Very much so but after being rejected and yelled at about “all I think about is sex” I gave up. I can tell you for a fact that she has never masterbated. She has even told me that sex is a take it or leave it sort of thing for her. I’ve even told her that a healthy sex life is part of a marriage. Nothing. So what do you do.


This stands in direct contradiction to your other thread in which you said you were not attracted to her when you married her.


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## Spartan01 (Nov 24, 2018)

No. I questioned if I had settled to get married. I was attracted to her. Sexually anyways. The personality not so much.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

Spartan01 said:


> No. I questioned if I had settled to get married. I was attracted to her. Sexually anyways. The personality not so much.


So you didn't like her in a way that was probably very important to her. Man, that is right at the core of most women's desire for sex. If you only want her bod, you devalue her as a person which is _not_ an aphrodisiac.


It really is no wonder she remains sexually repressed. You want to know the cause? .... grab a mirror.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

WorkingWife said:


> Maybe "need" was not the precise word to use. The hormone testosterone is largely responsible for sex drive. Most men have a lot of it and it is my understanding that it causes the urge to have sex. If they don't have anyone to have sex with, going to long without at least masturbating can get very distracting and uncomfortable.
> 
> They've actually done studies where they gave women testosterone and the women's sex drives increased to where they wanted sex all the time. The women in the study said is was really annoying and they were so glad they were not men.


Thanks for clarifying.


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## SpinyNorman (Jan 24, 2018)

farsidejunky said:


> Spiny:
> 
> Just who's side are you on?!?
> 
> ...


I did think after I wrote this it sounded a little puritanical. Of course masturbation won't hurt your health, nor will frequent sex.


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> I'm a woman but in my teens and 20's? If I wasn't focused on something like work, I was thinking about sex. Easily 20, 30 times a day. I still think it's different for men and women though. Here's a conversation I had with my BF to illustrate:
> 
> Me: "I was having this great sexual fantasy about you the other day."
> Him: "Tell me about it! I want all the details!"
> ...



I don't care what anyone says, this is funny as hell to me.


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## Haydawolive (Mar 10, 2019)

Spartan01 said:


> No. I questioned if I had settled to get married. I was attracted to her. Sexually anyways. The personality not so much.


The fact that you neither like her personality nor are you attracted to her is honestly scary. 

At first I kinda felt bad for you because your wife wouldn't let you masturbate. Now I feel bad for her.

You are living a lie being married to this woman.

Question: Is there anything about your wife that you do like?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I have this fantasy that a woman ties me up then starts to tell me this very long fantasy....>



WorkingWife said:


> I'm a woman but in my teens and 20's? If I wasn't focused on something like work, I was thinking about sex. Easily 20, 30 times a day. I still think it's different for men and women though. Here's a conversation I had with my BF to illustrate:
> 
> Me: "I was having this great sexual fantasy about you the other day."
> Him: "Tell me about it! I want all the details!"
> ...


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## Jus260 (Mar 24, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I have this fantasy that a woman ties me up then starts to tell me this very long fantasy....>


She has no idea. Your wife telling you a story about sex regardless of how lame might be be the best sex you've had all year.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Spartan01 said:


> Wife told me that *masturbation is a perverted thing to d*o. To my knowledge *she has never masturbated*. What does everyone think? I regularly do it but again I live in a sexless marriage. *Thoughts?*





Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. *I’m not at all attracted to my wife*. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. *It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring.* I have to initiate or it won’t happen. *My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex.* Is this a reason to divorce? *Talking about it is a no no -* it disturbs her to talk about the subject.





Spartan01 said:


> I was once into her. Very much so but after being rejected and yelled at about “all I think about is sex” *I gave up.* I can tell you for a fact that she has never masterbated. She has even told me that sex is a take it or leave it sort of thing for her. I’ve even told her that a healthy sex life is part of a marriage. Nothing. So what do you do.



First, I think that you should consider some of what Rocky Mountain Yeti has said.

Next, I too was in a sex starved marriage. My wife was educated in a Catholic girls school by nuns. During marriage counseling with a sex therapist, the ST asked my wife if she ever masturbated. My wife said no, she had a husband for that if she needed it. We talked about it for quite a while, until I understood her personal aversion to masturbation. She was raised to understand that masturbation was a sin, and that it was something that she needed to confess to a priest about. As a teenage girl, the thought of confessing to a middle-aged "man" that she sinned and masturbated was just too embarrassing and humiliating to her. That framed her perspective that masturbation was both sinful and a humiliating experience. I would suspect your wife may be similar.

One of the things that most people don't realize is how well a spouse knows what one is thinking. It is called mind mapping, reading body language, reading facial expressions, listening and understanding a tone of voice. We all communicate a lot of information non-verbally. Do some introspection, do you think that your wife knows you "have given up" or that she knows you don't enjoy sex with her? That might really make her not want to have sex with you. 

Now as to missionary being boring. OK, my wife is limited to two sexual positions: missionary and cowgirl. Nothing else. However, when she is into it, she can rock my world in either or both. It is not so much the position that creates boredom as the attitude of both participants. My suspicion is that attitude is what is creating the boredom, more than the limit of sexual positions.

A couple of strong suggestions for you. First get MW Davis Book, The Sex Starved Marriage....read it a couple times and study it Also get the book by Glover, No More Mr. Nice Guy....again read it a couple times and study it. What they both say is that it takes two to make or break a marriage, but that one can change themself and that can sometimes save a marriage. Both advise you to start doing some hard physical exercise and take on some challenges that bring you pride in what you do and increase your confidence. The key is to become a better person, or as Glover would say, a more integrated man. You need to drop your co-dependent, neediness of sex and love from your wife. She was not put on this earth to validate your ego. You need to in your own mind establish your worth and confidence. When you do that, you just might become sexy in her eyes.

Been there done that, still married after 47+ years to the same woman. We now have sex about twice a week. It took my regaining my self respect, no longer being clingy and being willing to divorce my wife, for things to change.

Good luck.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Young at Heart said:


> ... One of the things that most people don't realize is how well a spouse knows what one is thinking. It is called mind mapping, *reading body language, reading facial expressions, listening and understanding a tone of voice. We all communicate a lot of information non-verbally.* Do some introspection, do you think that your wife knows you "have given up" or that she knows you don't enjoy sex with her? That might really make her not want to have sex with you.
> 
> Now as to missionary being boring. OK, my wife is limited to two sexual positions: missionary and cowgirl. Nothing else. However, when she is into it, she can rock my world in either or both. It is not so much the position that creates boredom as the attitude of both participants. My suspicion is that attitude is what is creating the boredom, more than the limit of sexual positions.
> 
> ...


I think this was a really brilliant and thought provoking post. It is fascinating to me how changing your own attitude can change how someone else, like a spouse, sees you and interacts with you. The part I made red is so important because I think this change in you has to be real and genuine, or it will not work. If you are just pretending to be different, or indifferent, the spouse senses it. When you really have changed, they can tell.

For example - my first husband went out drinking without me all the time. A couple times he came home at 4:00 AM. I felt hurt and left out that he didn't care if I was with him. I wouldn't even want to go out without him because I had my best times *with *him. He apparently had more fun with*out* me. I once asked him "How would you feel if I did that to you?" And he said "I don't know because you would never do that."

Flash forward a few years of this nonsense and our marriage is crumbling. I find *I no longer care* where he is or what he's doing and *I have more fun when he is not around*.

So I worked an evening shift with some male co-workers/friends of ours and after work we were hanging out having a couple drinks at one of the guy's houses. I called my then husband and told him where I was and that I would be home really late. We were having a great time and I didn't get home until 1:30 AM or so. I get into the house and "hubby" is still awake and looks like hell - hair all disheveled, distraught, pacing around. He's all "Where have you BEEN???? It's after midnight!!!" LOL, he was nearly in TEARS.

I realized in that moment that all the complaining about his behavior and all my attempts to "pretend" not to care never would have worked. The only thing that could possibly make him care about me was my GENUINELY no longer caring about him. That night he knew on some cellular level that I was having more fun without him and I wasn't thinking about him at all that evening hanging out with other friends.

So this story ended in divorce because while I finally got his attention, I no longer wanted it. 

But my point to the OP is that making improvements in yourself that give you more confidence can naturally make you suddenly more interesting/attractive to your spouse. But the change has to be genuine. Kind of like when you're dating if you're too available because you have no life, that is a turn off. And if you try to FAKE not being available people often see through it or put off, but genuinely having interests and places to be seems to magically make you more compelling to others.


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## LeGenDary_Man (Sep 25, 2013)

Spartan01 said:


> So here’s the problem. I’m not at all attracted to my wife. We had sex last week for the first time in 14 months. It was a disaster- hated every second of it. It’s not totally her fault but I just can’t get myself to enjoy anything with her because all we end up doing is missionary and it’s pretty mundane and boring. I have to initiate or it won’t happen. My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex. Is this a reason to divorce? Talking about it is a no no - it disturbs her to talk about the subject.


There.

Thanks for your honesty. You are in a sexless marriage by your own making. 

Do you watch p**n by the way? This might be a factor why you find missionary boring, or even your wife boring.

_"I have to initiate or it won’t happen."_

Not an issue to be honest.

_"My wife is just not into sex or anything related to sex."_

I doubt this.

Per your admission, you *HATE* having sex with your wife, and she has figured this out (probably). Why would she feel motivated enough to initiate? I am surprised your wife is putting up with this.


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