# Problems with wife, hopeless marriage



## truthseeker77 (Feb 15, 2013)

I can't really explain everything but I will try to give you a good idea of what I am dealing with. Keep in mind that this is generally high level and a complete picture would be unreadable.

My wife has some real problems. I've talked with some health professionals and they generally agree she is mentally ill. Of course this is hard to prove since she won't seek help and lies all the time about her problems.

Things are getting worse for me. Generally, I am a punching bag. I try to do the best I can to keep things going in the relationship, but her demands are illogical and draining. No one can do what she asks, not even her. And if it doesn't get done, she can get really abusive. The verbal abuse is almost constant and physical abuse is close behind. She doesn't really physically hurt me, but in the end, I can't even touch her without retribution.

I have sought out help from pastors and counselors. They seem to sympathize at first, but she just lies to them about what I do to her and then they turn on me with a vengence. She has occused me of sexual abuse and manipulation. She tried to get me admitted for a sexual addiction ( to her of course). She completely denies any abuse to me, even specific instances that the kids have witnessed. And she plays the part perfectly. She know all the words to say and how to pull someone's strings. In the end, people don't believe anything I say, even when I present solid evidence and the alternative is laughable. I feel like everyone is abandoning me and I am losing my mind. 

Our sex life has gone from bad to worse to going away. She had guys take advantage of her in the past that I know of. There may be much more, but she refuses to deal with it and I have given up. Sex to her is just manipulation and it is awful. Her body is not prepared and I know she can't stand it. Consequently it is awful for me and I have stopped since she was using it against me.

She has also tried to get me to cheat on her with other women. She has in the past regularly denied me sex as well as suggested I go find another women or a prostitute. I can't really even describe trying to stay faithful to women who is actively trying to make it impossible.

She has established a solid group of bible studies, womens groups, family, and friends to complain to. She uses these avenues to spread rumors about me and discredit me. I don't know exactly what has been said about me but I know it is somewhat extensive. I know that I feel awkward at church or with friends, knowing that many are starring at me. These groups of course enable her to feel the victim and exacerbate the situation.

I'm concerned for our children most of all. She does some things but the kids are undisciplined and developing habits that may be permannent. They are bad for her and defiant to me. No one in my house respects me one ounce, and I have certainly lost any control I should have. If I'm not around, I'm very afraid what my wife would do since I do most of the work with the kids when I'm not at work. She can't really handle the small amount of work she has now.

Because of these things and many more to have somewhat removed myself from her. I no longer try to touch her, and as I said, I don't ask for sex. I only communicate when necessary. I am cordial and do what I need to do, but I just can't deal with the endless verbal and physical abuse. It is a little relief but I am losing it mentally.

From what I told her she is starting to understand but just tries to make my life worse. She is trying harder to stay away from me and actively making my life more difficult. Recently she has made it harder for me to sleep which adds to stress and I hurtful at my job. I have had a couple of panic attacks and am just now feeling right.

I really need help. Honestly, I am having a hard time not thinking about ending my life. I have virtually no one to help me and I can't see anything good happening. I just can't imagine even 10 more years of this.


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Dude, NO! I understand every thing that you're saying. You CANNOT end your life. Your kids need you. If your wife is half as crazy as she sounds you MUST not leave them like that. 

Can you not just leave? I really have no idea how it works, but can't you have her competency evaluated as part of custody hearings?


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

just_about_done said:


> Dude, NO! I understand every thing that you're saying. You CANNOT end your life. Your kids need you. If your wife is half as crazy as she sounds you MUST not leave them like that.
> 
> Can you not just leave? I really have no idea how it works, but can't you have her competency evaluated as part of custody hearings?


:iagree: Ending your life isn't the answer. I suggest you keep looking for a different therapist until you find one you are comfortable. Start carrying a VAR for your own protection.


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## Shadow_Nirvana (Jan 1, 2013)

Does she have a personality disorder? Really this sounds exactly like a borderline story I read about an army guy's wife. If so,

Overcoming BPD 

Why is she acting with such a vendetta towards you? Did you tell her ass looked fat or something? Or that she was getting wrinkles?

Joking aside: She seems highly pathological. I do think if you are so unhappy as to thinking of killing yourself, maybe you should cut your losses and get a divorce?


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Dont end your life, end your marriage.  You and your kids deserve a better, more peaceful life.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

You cannot change or fix her. Maybe you might find a way to get her to realize she needs help, but then maybe not.

Your goal should be to make yourself the best man and best father you can. What she does is not your concern.

I think you are mentally abused and thus you are not able to be rational about your situation. Have you heard about the Stockholm Syndrome? This is when a hostage or abuse victim starts to feel sympathy for the criminal or abuser. You are like the beaten wife who won't leave her husband.

I think you need a good psychologist not a pastor. The pastor will tell you to suck it up and keep taking the abuse. The pastor is not a qualified therapist.

Your kids are observing and learning from you. For their benefit you need to either get out or the marriage has to become healthy.

Have you considered recording your conversations with her? Or write a journal immediately after an interaction. Probably you are questioning your own reality. "Did she really say that? Is she right that I didn't do what I thought I did?". If you write these things down you have a historical record to go back to in order to see how things really were.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Go see a counselor for yourself. I suggest not telling her.

Record conversations, especially if they look like they will lead to violence.

See an attorney about a divorce. She won't fix things on her own, you can't fix them, you don't want to live like this.


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## truthseeker77 (Feb 15, 2013)

I should specify a little. I really don't want to hurt myself, especially for what it would do to my kids. It's just when your physically exhausted and no one believes anything you say, you wonder if swerving off the highway won't be so bad. It's just a type of hopelessness. Honestly it is kind of scary.

I have seen a counselor both together and separately. I did find one who would believe me. My wife refused to go after he confronted her about her problems. I went some after for my own good, but somehow my wife found out and accused me of having a secret life. Currently, she scans my computer and emails and tries to find evidence I've "talked" to other people about her. I've had to move my blog and remove any trace of things. If she finds anything I write that might be related to her, she continues to accuse me of my "secret life".

Honestly, I'm a little concerned she'll find this posting, although I think I have finally learned.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Why don't you talk to a lawyer and start divorce proceedings?


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## just_about_done (Feb 6, 2013)

Is there any chance she's on speed? 

I really think you need to get an exit strategy in place. I wouldn't leave the kids with her either. But I'm not sure how that plays out legaly. Maybe talk to a lawyer about a competency hearing or something. She really sounds like she could be dangerous. Is there a reason you're not addressing the divorce suggestions?

In the words of the Amityville house

GET OUT!!!


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## angel eyez (Feb 15, 2013)

i think that you need to put the well being of your kids first, as this is influencing their lifestyle you need to distance them from her until she seeks help or whatever as an adult you have ways of coping, but as for the kids, its not fair that her behaviour could ultimately ruin their future, they deserve better


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

truthseeker77 said:


> My wife has some real problems. I've talked with some health professionals and they generally agree she is mentally ill.


TruthSeeker, I agree with Shadow that the behaviors you describe sound like BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) traits. Specifically, the verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, vindictiveness, always being "The Victim," blame-shifting, and inability to trust -- are classic traits of BPD.

Of course, you will not be able to diagnose your W's issues. Only a professional (ideally, a psychologist) can do that. Yet, if you take time to read about BPD traits, you will be able to spot the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of the symptoms). There is nothing subtle about traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, and always being "The Victim."


> I feel like everyone is abandoning me and I am losing my mind.


If you are married to a BPDer (a person with strong BPD traits), that is EXACTLY how you should be feeling. Of the several dozen disorders listed in the APA's Diagnostic Manual, BPD is the one most notorious for making the spouses and partners feel like they may be losing their minds. Indeed, therapists see far more of those spouses coming in -- to find out if they are going crazy -- than the therapists ever see of the BPDers themselves.


> The verbal abuse is almost constant and physical abuse is close behind. She doesn't really physically hurt me.


What does the physical abuse consist of if you are not actually hurt?


> I have sought out help from pastors and counselors. They seem to sympathize at first, but she just lies to them about what I do to her and then they turn on me with a vengence.


If your W has strong BPD traits, she likely is a very good actor -- most BPDers are. It therefore is a cake walk for a BPDer to hide her dark side during the 50-minute session with a therapist. This is why it can take a therapist a year or two to see the behavior you see all week long. Moreover, as soon as a therapist starts to catch on, the BPDer typically will switch to another therapist or quit therapy altogether.


> She uses these avenues to spread rumors about me and discredit me. ...These groups of course enable her to feel the victim and exacerbate the situation.


If your W is a BPDer, she is sincerely convinced that she is "The Victim." A BPDer has such a fragile, unstable sense of who she is that -- to the extent she has any lasting self image at all -- it is of being "The Victim," always "The Victim."
It therefore is common for a BPDer to spread false allegations about her H. 

It also is common for her to sincerely believe most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth, because they generally are created subconsciously in a process called "projection." In that way, she is able to "validate" her false self image of being "The Victim." 

Of course, the ultimate validation of that false self image -- i.e., the equivalent of earning a PhD degree in victim-hood -- is to have the spouse arrested on a false charge of abuse. In that way, a BPDer has everlasting "proof" that she was victimized. It therefore is common for BPDers to call the police and have their spouses arrested on false charges of spousal abuse. At the end of my 15 year marriage, for example, my BPDer exW had me thrown into jail for "brutalizing" her.


> She has occused me of sexual abuse and manipulation. She tried to get me admitted for a sexual addiction ( to her of course).


IMO, it is only a matter of time before she will call the police to have you arrested for beating on her. Hence, if you are determined to keep living with her, I strongly recommend you avoid her on Saturdays. If you are arrested on a Saturday -- as I was -- you will be stuck in jail for nearly 3 days before you have a chance to go before a judge (in arraignment on Monday afternoon) and be released.


> Our sex life has gone from bad to worse to going away.


Although BPDers typically are very passionate during the courtship period, sexual activity usually goes off a cliff a few months after the wedding.


> She has also tried to get me to cheat on her with other women. She has in the past regularly denied me sex as well as suggested I go find another women or a prostitute.


If she is a BPDer and you take her up on that generous offer, she will turn around and beat you over the head with it throughout the remainder of your marriage. And, of course, she will add it to the list of gawd awful things she says about you to family members and friends. It will be further evidence of her being "The Victim."


> She continues to accuse me of my "secret life".


If she is a BPDer, she likely is incapable of trusting you. Namely, she is so emotionally unstable that she is unable to trust herself. So, until she learns how to trust herself, she will be incapable of trusting you.


> I really need help.


I strongly encourage you to see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your children are dealing with. That visit also will give you an opportunity to ask the psych what the chances are your W will pass the disorder on to your kids. 

Importantly, your best chance of obtaining a candid opinion -- if BPD is involved -- is to see a psychologist who is not treating your W and has not even seen her. The reason is that therapists usually are loath to tell a BPDer -- much less her H -- the name of her disorder (for her own protection).

I also suggest that, while you're waiting for an appointment, you read about BPD traits so you are able to spot any red flags that are present. An easy place to start reading is my description of such traits in my post in Maybe's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/33734-my-list-hell.html#post473522. If that discussion rings a bell and the traits sound very familiar, I would be glad to discuss them with you and point you to good online resources. Take care, TruthSeeker.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I am not certain of the legality of recording personal conversations but you may want to have a VAR when you are dealing with her. 

I may be illegal to use it in court but it is a form of protection for you and confirmation of abuse. 

You can consult a lawyer about the legal aspects.


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## truthseeker77 (Feb 15, 2013)

Uptown, I will try to answer your questions and specify some more.

What does the physical abuse consist of if you are not actually hurt?

Most of it is subtle but effective. She has attacked me several times, even in front of the children, but this is mostly in the past. For the most part, it is just that I can't touch her. If I try she'll poke, push, kick, or anything to get me away. It doesn't necessary "hurt", but it is emotional agony. The biggest thing is when we are in bed, I can't touch her. If I wander on to her side of the bed she will hit or kick me, even if I'm asleep. That can be quite painful, and happens frequently. I may also be starting knee problems because of the frequent punishment.


She has been premliminarily diagnosed with BPD by a counselor. There have been other things as well, since there is a lot of similarities between disorders. I know she is a compulsive liar and may also have Sensory Processing Disorder. The problem is getter officially diagnosed and treated.

My problem is trying to figure out what to do. No counselor will listen to me because my wife accuses me of abuse. No one puts any time into figuring this out, not mention a year that may be necessary. Then, they blame me for the problems and I feel worse. I've spent thousands of dollars to have professionals legitimatize my wifes delusions. Is there any avenue that will actually help me.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

truthseeker77 said:


> She has been premliminarily diagnosed with BPD by a counselor. There have been other things as well, since there is a lot of similarities between disorders.


Yes, TruthSeeker, with BPD there usually are "other things" too. A recent large-scale study (pub. 2008) found that 70% of BPDers have one or two other personality disorders as well (e.g., NPD or Antisocial PD), together with at least one "clinical disorder" (e.g., depression, PTSD, bipolar, or anxiety. Indeed, about 25% of BPDers also have bipolar-1 disorder.


> No counselor will listen to me because my wife accuses me of abuse. No one puts any time into figuring this out, not mention a year that may be necessary. Then, they blame me for the problems and I feel worse.


Consider yourself very lucky to have found one therapist who would mention "BPD" to you. As I said, it is well known -- both within and without the psychiatric community -- that the name of that disorder is routinely withheld by therapists from the BPDers and from their spouses as well. 

In my case, I took my exW to six different psychologists and several MCs -- spending a small fortune on weekly therapy sessions over a period of 15 years -- and NONE of them ever mentioned "BPD" to me. The closest they would get to that term is to use code words like "thought disorder" -- a term that was forthcoming only after I had spent five years pleading with my exW's last psychologist to tell me what was wrong with her. Up to that point, the psych would only say "I don't believe labels are useful."


> I've spent thousands of dollars to have professionals legitimatize my wifes delusions. Is there any avenue that will actually help me.


Obviously, if you had only yourself to protect, the best "avenue" would be a prompt divorce. Yet, because you have young children to protect, the issue becomes more complicated. If you stay in the toxic marriage, the kids have the advantage of having you around to protect them from her negligence. 

That protection, however, comes at a high cost. For one thing, they are being raised in a toxic marriage and thus will never see what it is like to grow up in a normal family. If you were to divorce, however, they would have the opportunity to see normality at least half the time. They also would have an opportunity to see their "real dad," i.e., the man you used to be before walking on eggshells all the time.

For another thing, your remaining in the toxic home carries with it a high risk that your BPDer W -- i.e., the woman who is convinced she is always "The Victim" -- is going to have you arrested for "brutalizing her," as my W did to me. When BPDer wives fear that the marriage is about to end, it is common for them to have their husbands arrested, giving them a ready opportunity to obtain a restraining order preventing him from returning to the home. 

As soon as you are arrested, a court will hand out ROs like candy at a pediatrician's office. With the RO in hand, her next step will be to insist on full custody of the kids -- something she can obtain temporarily (for two months or so) by simply asking for it if she has the RO in hand and your arrest on record. The risk of staying in the home, then, is that your custody of the kids can easily fall from 100% to 0% within a few days.

Indeed, that is exactly what is happening to another young man who is in the process of fighting for custody of his young daughter while trying to divorce a W he believes is a BPDer. I've been communicating with him since December on another forum. Based on false allegations, his STBXW obtained a temporary court order prescribing that he is allowed to see his daughter only 2 to 4 hours once a week. During that time, he must pay $50/hour to have someone in the meeting to make sure he doesn't harm his daughter.

To avoid that fate, you may be better able to protect your kids by moving out and seeking 50% custody. Also, you can check with an attorney about the possibility of having your W evaluated by a psychologist. If that yields a diagnosis, you may be able to obtain 100% custody. Further, if you are still so depressed that you are feeling suicidal, it's a no-brainer that your kids will be far better off having you half the time -- and ALIVE -- than not having you in their lives at all.


> My problem is trying to figure out what to do.


The only person who can determine what is best for your kids is you. You are best positioned to know what is in their best interests. I nonetheless will offer some suggestions that likely will help you better understand what you are dealing with.

As an initial matter, I recommend that you NOT tell your W about your suspicions of her having strong BPD traits. If her therapist has not told her she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project your accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Second, if you think you may stay with her a while, I suggest you get _Stop Walking on Eggshells_, the best-selling BPD book targeted to abused spouses like you. Or, if you decide to get a divorce instead, I suggest you read _Splitting: Protecting Yourself while Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder._ Both books are written by the same author.

Third, I suggest you start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com -- the largest and most active BPD forum I've found that is devoted fully to the spouses and family members of BPDers. This issue is such an enormous problem that that website is growing by 20 new members every day. The result is that it offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The two that likely will be most helpful to you are the "Leaving" board and "Parenting after the Split" board, where you will find hundreds of stories just like yours and will find lots of good tips about dealing with the ugly process of fighting a BPDer for child custody.

Fourth, while you are at BPDfamily.com, I suggest you read the excellent articles in their resources section. My favorite is article #9 at T9 Surviving a Break-up with Someone Suffering with Borderline Personality Disorder - Columbia University, New York. I also recommend Kathy Batesel's excellent article at Borderline Personality Disorder and Relationships..

Fifth, I again suggest you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. Remember, your wife's therapist is NOT YOUR FRIEND. It is important to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect your best interests, not hers. Relying on her _therapist_ for advice during the marriage is as foolish as relying on her _attorney_ for advice during the divorce. 

If your attorney believes it is advisable to seek a court order to have your W evaluated, make sure you do research to find a psychologist with extensive experience in evaluating and treating BPDers. Because BPDers are excellent actors, inexperienced psychologists may take several years to see the dysfunctional behavior you see all week long.

Sixth, I suggest you read Shari Schreiber's article at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?. It explains how codependents get to be that way during childhood. I mention "codependency" because any man who has been living with a BPDer for about ten years almost certainly has strong traits of codependency, as I do.

Significantly, this does NOT mean that you and I have a mental disorder. Codependency is not even mentioned in the APA's diagnostic manual. It does mean, however, that you are at great risk -- after divorcing your W -- of running right into the arms of another woman just like her. We caregivers tend to walk right past all the emotionally available women (BORING) until we find one who desperately needs us and makes us feel like knights on a white horse. If the Schreiber article rings a bell and you want a good book on that subject, I suggest _Codependent No More._ 

Finally, TruthSeeker, please don't forget those of us here on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences here, you likely are helping many other members and lurkers.


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