# Question for WS: Was a kiss just a kiss?



## Squeaky McWonderpants (Feb 3, 2015)

Tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for. So many cheaters say "we only hugged" or "we only kissed". And of course the TAM experts say this this is bunk.
Any cheaters actually able to reign themselves in before real physical activity?
Cheaters please chime in.

Wish I could make this a poll question...


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Doubtful...


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

Unlikely, but if your spouse came out of the blue to tell you because of guilt and the kiss very recently happened, then it might be a little more believable.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Squeaky McWonderpants said:


> Tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for. So many cheaters say "we only hugged" or "we only kissed". And of course the TAM experts say this this is bunk.
> Any cheaters actually able to reign themselves in before real physical activity?
> Cheaters please chime in.
> 
> Wish I could make this a poll question...


The sad fact you'll have to deal with, if this is what happened to you, is that the kiss is the same as full on screwing. The line has already been crossed regardless of which body parts touched other body parts.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Dealt with a lot of cheaters. What is your situation? 90% or more, "kissing" means oral and/or vaginal penetration often with no condom.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

I would say it is possible, but not likely.

My WW "only" kissed one time at first and then she backed off because it kind of "freaked" her out.

But........................ (Yes, there's always a but.) But, she stayed in contact with the POSOM and they eventually started a year long PA. There was a two month gap between the kiss and the PA, so if I would have caught on or found out during that time then the excuse would have been "it was only a kiss" and she would have been telling the truth. So there's always a chance if you catch it early enough it might actually be true, I doubt I would ever believe it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Some probably do stop themselves, but who can be sure?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Squeaky McWonderpants said:


> Tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for. So many cheaters say "we only hugged" or "we only kissed". And of course the TAM experts say this this is bunk.
> Any cheaters actually able to reign themselves in before real physical activity?
> Cheaters please chime in.
> 
> Wish I could make this a poll question...


Me! I did! Well, there was kissing and some heavy petting (God, that sounds so teenage!) but when unprotected PIV sex was seconds away, I suddenly came to my senses and didn't proceed. Thank God.


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## tonedef (Aug 7, 2014)

As a former ''cheater'', it depends. Sometimes the best way to sell a lie is to add some truths to make the lie, or lie by omission, sound more believable (meaning we did kiss and add other detail but choose not to tell the rest). Sometimes one will say it was just a kiss because boundaries had already been crossed and its easier to rebound from just a kiss. Sometimes a kiss is literally just kiss. When I was 16, I cheated on my then bf by kissing a friend at a Rob Zombie concert. I felt guilty and told him but it really was just a kiss. I have been betrayed and done the betraying. I have grown up a lot in the last several years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

tonedef said:


> As a former ''cheater'', it depends. Sometimes the best way to sell a lie is to add some truths to make the lie, or lie by omission, sound more believable (meaning we did kiss and add other detail but choose not to tell the rest). Sometimes one will say it was just a kiss because boundaries had already been crossed and its easier to rebound from just a kiss. Sometimes a kiss is literally just kiss. When I was 16, I cheated on my then bf by kissing a friend at a Rob Zombie concert. I felt guilty and told him but it really was just a kiss. I have been betrayed and done the betraying. I have grown up a lot in the last several years.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't think a kiss by a 16 years old could be construed as cheating. I mean you are not of the consent age to be in a committed LTR, so I don't know that I would count that as cheating. Guess that is just me but one of the few exceptions.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I'm sure are there are exceptions- Matt being one- but from my limited perspective it was just a kiss is usually trickle truth a cheater is selling and hoping the betrayed will buy. Ease a little guilt- tell a little truth...try to establish some credibility to cover bigger lies


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## tonedef (Aug 7, 2014)

Squeakr- I guess at that age nothing is really written in stone but he was my 'first' and we were together 3 years so it was real enough to consider it cheating. Then in my first marriage, I had an affair. I have up until now never really taken serious relationships seriously. I will post my story soon in hopes to help but kinda scared to around here lol... :/
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

intheory said:


> I'm not sure I understand, Kingwood.
> 
> A kiss is bad. But it is not the same as genital sex acts.
> 
> ...


Kissing is far more intimate than sex. That's why hookers don't kiss but they'll do everything else.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> intheory said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure I understand, Kingwood.
> ...


Or porn actors do not usually kiss either. Many refuse that intimate move where as the sex act is fine in their mind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Squeaky McWonderpants.... now I've seen a lot of odd user names. But this one takes the cake. :rofl:


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Squeaky McWonderpants.... now I've seen a lot of odd user names. But this one takes the cake. :rofl:


Gave me a big grin!&#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Yes. we did talk about our marriages to each other and I guess we both felt comfortable. It felt good to be recognized, attractive and to have someone listen. We did comfort each other by tears, hugs and yes we did kiss. I am so sorry( it never went any further than that.

This is an excerpt of an email my WW sent me. Do I think it can stop at a kiss? Based upon my expierience, no. They kissed and felt each other up two to three times a week, it's someone new, so I believe they had sex to to three times a week. WW and OM having sex once was enough to destroy me. 

I was lurking on TAM at this time and based upon posters here I knew that the kiss was full on sex. Knowing that enabled me to question, question, question until she finally confessed. Had I not found TAM I would still be believing it was only a kiss. So thank you, to every poster on TAM, for giving me the knowledge about infidelity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

But in general you get:










Because


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Still married to a FWW... 35 years

Every BS wants to know... "Is this the whole Truth?"... "Is there More you are still hiding?"... "Did you sleep with him in our Bed?"... on and on and on...

Wake up! Cheater are lyres by very definition. Yes, when caught with their pants down (literally), they will admit the obvious (oh thanks). When faced with the tough, real, question... "I don't remember"... "It was a possibility"... my personal favorite "I was so confused". Get the point! I'll take this to the grave before I admit, swear, own up to the low cheating trash I betrayed on you. 

So BS at large, keep on asking, keep on wondering, keep on hoping, that one day this person you trusted with your life will finally admit what you already know.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

lordmayhem said:


> But in general you get:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Channeling Mach...


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Squeakr said:


> Or porn actors do not usually kiss either. Many refuse that intimate move where as the sex act is fine in their mind.


Good point. Kissing means there's real feelings there and that's the worst betrayal of all.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

drifting on said:


> Yes. we did talk about our marriages to each other and I guess we both felt comfortable. It felt good to be recognized, attractive and to have someone listen. We did comfort each other by tears, hugs and yes we did kiss. I am so sorry( it never went any further than that.
> 
> This is an excerpt of an email my WW sent me. Do I think it can stop at a kiss? Based upon my expierience, no. They kissed and felt each other up two to three times a week, it's someone new, so I believe they had sex to to three times a week. WW and OM having sex once was enough to destroy me.
> 
> ...


Sorry for your pain. I know it well. People look at me funny when I tell them that the day I found out what my wife had done I honest to God wish someone would have ran in the room right then and shot me right in the head. That would have been such a relief and gave me peace. Far easier than the pure hell and unimaginable pain that came later.


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## EI (Jun 12, 2012)

Squeaky McWonderpants said:


> Tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for. So many cheaters say "we only hugged" or "we only kissed". And of course the TAM experts say this this is bunk.
> Any cheaters actually able to reign themselves in before real physical activity?
> Cheaters please chime in.
> 
> Wish I could make this a poll question...


I would say that it's possible that a kiss might just be a kiss, particularly in situations where there is little opportunity to be alone, allowing for more physical intimacy. But, if the A (relationship) was ongoing, and the opportunity presented itself, I cannot imagine adults being in a long-term "kissing affair." Once you've crossed that line, unless you're immediately filled with regret, and snapped back into reality, you're almost certainly going to take it as far as you can.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I know full well that if I hadn't stopped with that kissing session that I would have not only destroyed my marriage that I would have destroyed myself, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

EI said:


> I would say that it's possible that a kiss might just be a kiss, particularly in situations where there is little opportunity to be alone, allowing for more physical intimacy. But, if the A (relationship) was ongoing, and the opportunity presented itself, I cannot imagine adults being in a long-term "kissing affair." Once you've crossed that line, unless you're immediately filled with regret, and snapped back into reality, you're almost certainly going to take it as far as you can.


Your photos get better and better, EI.:smthumbup: B1 sure knows his way around a camera.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Depends on the situation and location. Kisses at a family reunion, ****tail party or other social gathering are usually pretty harmless. Intimate kisses alone, usually bad news. As far as TTing, and saying you "just kissed" I would say that the majority of times it is much worse. Not ALL of the time...granted ...but most of the time...more than a kiss was involved.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

As to the porn, I was just going by what was seen the majority of the time and from interviews I have seen with some of the actors where they state point blank that they don't kiss as it is too intimate and something they reserve for their partners. It was even said when you do it everyday for a job you need to reserve something special for your partners to insure the disconnect from work and that you can have a special connection with their partners.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Please consider me a rather biased source, since I have never personally chosen to engage in any act of infidelity.The line from the old romantic 1931 song, "As Time Goes By," by Herman Hupfeld, is simply "A Kiss Is Just A Kiss." It just sounds so faithfully romantic mixed in with all of those other most loving words from the lyrics of that most popular pre-WW2 song.

I cannot even begin to argue that infidelity was not around in that day and age, because it was, but I do not think that the ages old malady was nearly as prevalent then due to the fact that cheating has been so glamorized by the rampant media sources that we have today ~ it's been more adopted socially today by most all of us, greatly to the point that we all think that while infidelity is certainly prevalent in our society, it is something that will never, ever happen to us.

What is being missed here is not the cheaters secretive initial contact, nor the overt/covert flirtations that accompanies a cheating relationship, nor the clandesine rendevous' that go along with it. Not even the inappropriate acts of deep-kissing, making-out, groping and feeling-up, and the ultimate oral/genital contact that we all perceive happens in this scurilous relationship of unfaithfulness. Not even the convenient removal of their wedding band, nor the memory of their heartfelt verbalization of their wedding vows to their spouse, their families, friends, community, officiating clergy ~ and more importantly, to God, seems to even make a tinkers damn to their jaded consciences. The dopamine high of their newfound illicit relationship now takes presedence! To hell with those vows!

No ~ none of that is as remotely germaine as their gross and wanton "DECEPTION"that must so calculatingly be employed, in order to make their act of infidelity a successful venture. Deception that largely defrays a marked need for a cheaters "safety net" in continuing to have a roof over their head, food in their mouths, and the company of their beloved family members continuing to be in their physical midst, all while now using their legitimate spouse as their new Plan B just long enough before they have to come out of the cold to summarily break up their hearts, along with their families, to grossly move on to the promise of their scintilating Plan A.

It is not all of the physiological and psychological occurences that they should preeminently be concerned with ~ it is the rampant deception and lying that they make use of, in order to get their new dopamine-laden, thrill out of life; all at the expense of their victimized and often traumatized spouse and families!

So from a lying cheaters perspective, exactly how can we ever consciably adjudicate their verbage to the world that "it was only a kiss!"*


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

^
|
|
Damn Straight!


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Rookie4 said:


> Depends on the situation and location. Kisses at a family reunion, ****tail party or other social gathering are usually pretty harmless. Intimate kisses alone, usually bad news. As far as TTing, and saying you "just kissed" I would say that the majority of times it is much worse. Not ALL of the time...granted ...but most of the time...more than a kiss was involved.


"It was just a kiss...

...with tongue...

...for 5 minutes...

...on his penis."


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## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

Would you kiss a stranger in the street? No, so yes, it means something. I'm all for hugging, but even then......be goodxxx


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> "It was just a kiss...
> 
> ...with tongue...
> 
> ...


*"... all before excitedly inserting it deeply into me... 

...and so feverishly thrusting away on it...

...without ever having had the first thought of you...

... or our marital vows to each other...

... or the kids...

... or my family or yours...

... or our church, neighbors and friends...

... on my mind...

... or even gave the first consideration...

... to what hurt and pain that it might ultimately bring to you...

... or even to them...

... even if or when any of you were lucky enough...

... to ever ferret out the sordid truth of my deception...

... I'm a cold-hearted cheater and I'm a liar...

... but will never, ever confess that to you.

... But do you know what the most remarkable thing is? 

... I never missed you at all!...

... And never will!"*


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

arbitrator said:


> *
> ...without ever having the first thought of ... the kids...
> 
> ... or my family or yours...
> ...


I've never thought of any of those things, even when having sex with my wife. If I did, it would be time for a new wife! That stuff would be way too kinky for my tastes, arbitrator.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> I've never thought of any of those things, even when having sex with my wife. If I did, it would be time for a new wife! That stuff would be way too kinky for my tastes, arbitrator.


*Trust me, Married ~ and while it is not my intention to offend anyone ~ that's what largely goes on in the mind of a cheater who largely abandons their spouse/family for a whole new exciting lifestyle with someone new; more especially when they are clandestinely removed from them! And with all due respect to women, and with very rare exception, their male counterparts are largely the same way!

The things that go on in the cheater's mind is definitely not for the benefit of their spouse ~ it is all about that new love interest that's now in their life and the rampant excitement that this new relationship is greatly injecting into their heretofore recently mundane life!

Nothing more! And nothing less!*


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

KingwoodKev said:


> Sorry for your pain. I know it well. People look at me funny when I tell them that the day I found out what my wife had done I honest to God wish someone would have ran in the room right then and shot me right in the head. That would have been such a relief and gave me peace. Far easier than the pure hell and unimaginable pain that came later.



KingwoodKev

That pain is all too consuming. I too wished I were dead so I would feel nothing. Takes you lower than you ever thought possible. I can't imagine any worse pain or feeling of hopelessness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

"we only kissed"

Ok, first, take out the word "only". That implies it was no big deal. 

Second, sure, a kiss can be just a kiss. And a f*** can be just a f***


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

vellocet said:


> "we only kissed"
> 
> Ok, first, take out the word "only". That implies it was no big deal.
> 
> Second, sure, a kiss can be just a kiss. And a f*** can be just a f***


*Yeah, Vellocet! I can just hear Ol' Frankie BlueEyes crooning "those lyrics" right now!

And it, no doubt, would have helped him sell just a few more albums!!*


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> Kissing is far more intimate than sex. That's why hookers don't kiss but they'll do everything else.


This is a delusional stance that some take in order to maintain a form of control over a situation where they've given all of themselves away. It's their way of, falsely, thinking what they are doing is "on their own terms" and not psychologically damaging. It's in the same realm as people who will have oral and anal sex, but not vaginal, and then call themselves virgins.

If my wife, somehow, got involved enough with someone else where they kissed, we could work through it. If she has sex with someone else....game over.

Have you ever heard "I've banged 100 people, but I'm saving my lips for my marriage day!"?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *"... all before excitedly inserting it deeply into my vagina...
> 
> ...and so feverishly thrusting away on it...
> 
> ...


Getting a little carried away, aren't we? I've been to ****tail parties where I've kissed 8 or 10 different women. Mostly on the cheek, but a few busses on the lips. This is what I mean about knowing the situation.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

The problem here is that a lot of people have the cart before the horse. It isn't the kiss that makes it inappropriate, it is the inappropriate feelings that make the kiss, cheating. Kissing your old maid Aunt is a far cry from kissing the hot neighbor woman.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Getting a little carried away, aren't we? I've been to ****tail parties where I've kissed 8 or 10 different women. Mostly on the cheek, but a few busses on the lips. This is what I mean about knowing the situation.


*Not at all, Rook! I think that the point is being grossly missed here! The infidelity is brought about by a gross accumulation of various occurences, of which kissing is a major one, just not the only one!

If you don't believe me, read Dr. Shirley Glass' classic book, Not Just Friends. You'll find it rather enlightening as well as most informative!

And FYI, now that I'm still single again, I will occasionally kiss women and good female acquaintances on their cheeks, but never, ever on their lips, largely out of respect for them; but greatly out of fear of having my butt busted by either their husbands or significant others!*


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> The problem here is that a lot of people have the cart before the horse. It isn't the kiss that makes it inappropriate, it is the inappropriate feelings that make the kiss, cheating. Kissing your old maid Aunt is a far cry from kissing the hot neighbor woman.


*Very true! Unless, of course, one has the hots for their old maid Aunt, like which might be the case in such geographic locales such as Appalachia, or down in the piney woods of Deep East Texas!!*


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Getting a little carried away, aren't we? I've been to ****tail parties where I've kissed 8 or 10 different women. Mostly on the cheek, but a few busses on the lips.


That's all in a different context than what the OP is alluding.

OP is talking about "it was only just a kiss" in the context of being caught cheating....not cordial pecks on the cheek at a social event.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

vellocet said:


> That's all in a different context than what the OP is alluding.
> 
> OP is talking about "it was only just a kiss" in the context of being caught cheating....not cordial pecks on the cheek at a social event.


Yep, in this context there is no such thing as "it was only a kiss." Cheating is cheating is cheating.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

vellocet said:


> That's all in a different context than what the OP is alluding.
> 
> OP is talking about "it was only just a kiss" in the context of being caught cheating....not cordial pecks on the cheek at a social event.


agreed it's the TT crap that happens all so often


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

vellocet said:


> That's all in a different context than what the OP is alluding.
> 
> OP is talking about "it was only just a kiss" in the context of being caught cheating....not cordial pecks on the cheek at a social event.


I understand that, I was just posting a warning to avoid getting carried away with the rhetoric. In my book, ANY physical contact between the WS and the AP is cheating, also any emotional connection. It is the INTENT that makes it so, not the activity. After all, in some EA's there is no physical contact whatsoever, but it is still cheating. In infidelity, intent is everything.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> I understand that, I was just posting a warning to avoid getting carried away with the rhetoric. In my book, ANY physical contact between the WS and the AP is cheating, also any emotional connection. It is the INTENT that makes it so, not the activity. After all, in some EA's there is no physical contact whatsoever, but it is still cheating. In infidelity, intent is everything.


The emotional part of it hurts worse than what body part was put into what other body part. Maybe that's just me but that's what hurt me most.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

I also believe that the FIRST physical contact is sometimes accidental. "We were just talking and then we hugged" sort of thing. But any further contact is premeditated.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> The emotional part of it hurts worse than what body part was put into what other body part. Maybe that's just me but that's what hurt me most.


I quite agree. It was for me, too.


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

Rookie4 said:


> I quite agree. It was for me, too.


It's weird but if she had said "I've never been with anyone else so let's go to a swingers club just once, Fck total strangers, and then never go back" I would have been far more in favor of that than what she did which was have a serious EA/PA with someone we knew for almost a year in duration.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> I understand that, I was just posting a warning to avoid getting carried away with the rhetoric. In my book, ANY physical contact between the WS and the AP is cheating, also any emotional connection. It is the INTENT that makes it so, not the activity. After all, in some EA's there is no physical contact whatsoever, but it is still cheating. *In infidelity, intent is everything*.


I agree with your post, but have a question about the bolded part.

I may be understanding you wrong, but to me, intent is irrelevant if it is indeed cheating.

I don't care if someone intended to do one thing or another. If they cheated, that's all that matters. Example, the difference between someone that intended to cheat because of feelings as opposed to someone that didn't intend it and uses the tired old, "it just happened". In that context, intent matters not, to me anyway.

Maybe you were conveying something different.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

intheory said:


> But for people on the verge of an affair; a mouth-to-mouth kiss, though pleasurable and intimate, does not involve the raw exposure or orgasmic potential that genital sex does. It really surprises me that some folks think it does.


With that in mind, why do some people not consider a blow job as cheating? I've read threads here and there where some women say they didn't cheat because they only gave the man oral. So is a blow job just a blow job, like on the level of a kiss? Or is it only cheating once it gets to PIV (or PIA for those that like that)?


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## KingwoodKev (Jan 15, 2015)

lordmayhem said:


> With that in mind, why do some people not consider a blow job as cheating? I've read threads here and there where some women say they didn't cheat because they only gave the man oral. So is a blow job just a blow job, like on the level of a kiss? Or is it only cheating once it gets to PIV (or PIA for those that like that)?


Cheaters don't just lie to the world, they lie to themselves. What you described is one of the ways they do that.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> With that in mind, why do some people not consider a blow job as cheating? I've read threads here and there where some women say they didn't cheat because they only gave the man oral. So is a blow job just a blow job, like on the level of a kiss? Or is it only cheating once it gets to PIV (or PIA for those that like that)?


I have heard where young girls now think that a BJ is really nothing and are willing to do that before full on PIV intercourse. Also since in tat situation they control the situation (or so they think) they feel they can call it what they want.

Of course you have to keep in mind that you are saying that these women state they didn't cheat. These are more than likely the same that would not see an EA as cheating, or even admit that the intercourse they had was cheating as "it just happened" and "was only sex and nothing more". Cheaters lots of times don't and won't admit that they cheated as they don't want the stigma associated to them.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> The emotional part of it hurts worse than what body part was put into what other body part. Maybe that's just me but that's what hurt me most.


* Agreed Kev! A true EA is far more debilliatating than a PA ever is, anyday! It just largely sets the wheels in motion for the PA to finally occur, usually happening in only a rather minimal amount of time!

The EA is the true "faithfulness buster!"*


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> * Agreed Kev! A true EA is far more debilliatating than a PA ever is, anyday! It just largely sets the wheels in motion for the PA to finally occur, usually happening in only a rather minimal amount of time!
> 
> The EA is the true "faithfulness buster!"*


Damn, Arb... don't pull your punches.

Anyway, is it possible that it was "just a kiss"? Yeah, it's possible.

But it's also possible that I'll finally decide to take up fishing...










...or maybe the clarinet...










...or maybe even geocaching...










Hell, I might even decide to tackle some long-overdue home improvement projects...










Or maybe I'll scratch that "ride a rollercoaster" line item off my bucket list...










LOL... I might even decide to become a Vegas showgirl...










Then again, none of ^that^ is very likely either.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *Not at all, Rook! I think that the point is being grossly missed here! The infidelity is brought about by a gross accumulation of various occurences, of which kissing is a major one, just not the only one!
> 
> If you don't believe me, read Dr. Shirley Glass' classic book, Not Just Friends. You'll find it rather enlightening as well as most informative!
> 
> And FYI, now that I'm still single again, I will occasionally kiss women and good female acquaintances on their cheeks, but never, ever on their lips, largely out of respect for them; but greatly out of fear of having my butt busted by either their husbands or significant others!*


It's called boundaries. Include a kiss or exclude a kiss. It's up to the couple. Where does one draw the line. How long maybe? 20 seconds, it's just plain old fine. 20.1 seconds, Divorce...


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Q tip said:


> It's called boundaries. Include a kiss or exclude a kiss. It's up to the couple. Where does one draw the line. How long maybe? 20 seconds, it's just plain old fine. 20.1 seconds, Divorce...


* Totally, Q-Man! That's why with boundaries, a WS is not really going to bring their AP over to the house to bang in the bed when their BS is present!

Doing so could likely cause this to occur, largely from the seething wrath of their betrayed partner!*


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Cool,

If you don't do it in front of your partner, don't do it behind their back. Kinda simple.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Squeaky McWonderpants said:


> Tried to search but didn't find what I was looking for. So many cheaters say "we only hugged" or "we only kissed". And of course the TAM experts say this this is bunk.
> Any cheaters actually able to reign themselves in before real physical activity?
> Cheaters please chime in.
> 
> Wish I could make this a poll question...


Yes it's possible but very freaking rare.

I once kissed a married woman who had been a pretty close friend of mine.

I had apparently friendzoned her for years before she was married (had no clue).
She had been crushing on me hard for a couple of years and somehow my dumb ass never picked up on it.
She was very attractive but I thought of her as one of the guys due to her personality.

One drunken night (Three weeks after her wedding)on the beach in the moonlight I kissed her and then stopped myself because she was just newly wed, she was a friend and I knew what I was doing was going to screw her whole world up.
She didn't want to stop.

This is twenty+ years ago, she still occasionally fishes for me on FB.

So it can happen, it's just not likely.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

tacoma said:


> Yes it's possible but very freaking rare.
> 
> I once kissed a married woman who had been a pretty close friend of mine.
> 
> ...


And had you been more of a lizard like her, it certainly would have been more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

vellocet said:


> I agree with your post, but have a question about the bolded part.
> 
> I may be understanding you wrong, but to me, intent is irrelevant if it is indeed cheating.
> 
> ...


Actually I was talking about two different dynamics. 1.the intention to cheat, 2.the intention for it to go physical. I also agree that it is ALL cheating.
We've had several posters , like Tears, for Example , who I believe did not intend to cheat. We also have posters who never intended it to become physical. The distinction means something to a lot of posters (not to Me) but to a lot of them.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

KingwoodKev said:


> It's weird but if she had said "I've never been with anyone else so let's go to a swingers club just once, Fck total strangers, and then never go back" I would have been far more in favor of that than what she did which was have a serious EA/PA with someone we knew for almost a year in duration.


I don't agree with swinging, but that would be your call to make. Swinging and it's relationship to cheating is for another thread.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> With that in mind, why do some people not consider a blow job as cheating? I've read threads here and there where some women say they didn't cheat because they only gave the man oral. So is a blow job just a blow job, like on the level of a kiss? Or is it only cheating once it gets to PIV (or PIA for those that like that)?


Sex is sex. Kissing, however, is not considered sex. A BJ, on the other hand, is.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

A couple of comments. 1. I would never consider a porn star as an arbiter of what is or is not, intimate. 2. The "it just happened" idea is an example of an excuse, and not a very good one.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Sex is sex. * Kissing, however, is not considered sex.* A BJ, on the other hand, is.



*With all due respect, Rook, but if a man, or even a woman, is summarily kissing the neighbor lady and is engaged in a liplock that entails even the slightest tongue-swapping activity, I'd greatly wager that if her old man were a witness to that, that either or both of those kissers might eventually be scheduling dental work to replace missing teeth!

I'm sorry, but even though that couple may well have all of their clothes on when engaging in that type of kissing, it is preeminently deemed to be, by the vast majority of folks, as nothing more than good ol' precursory "sex!"*


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Sex is sex. Kissing, however, is not considered sex. A BJ, on the other hand, is.


Not according to Pres. Clinton! At least that was his defense.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

arbitrator said:


> *With all due respect, Rook, but if a man, or even a woman, is summarily kissing the neighbor lady and is engaged in a liplock that entails even the slightest tongue-swapping activity, I'd greatly wager that if her old man were a witness to that, that either or both of those kissers might eventually be scheduling dental work to replace missing teeth!
> 
> I'm sorry, but even though that couple may well have all of their clothes on when engaging in that type of kissing, it is preeminently deemed to be, by the vast majority of folks, as nothing more than good ol' precursory "sex!"*


Bull hockey. I said that kissing wasn't sex, I didn't say it wasn't cheating. It very well could be. But if liplocks are sex, then I've been having sex since I was about 8.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Not according to Pres. Clinton! At least that was his defense.


Clinton balanced the budget, so I don't care who was playing his flute, or what they called it. Perhaps if more Presidents were getting it, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in today.


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

Rookie4 said:


> Clinton balanced the budget, so I don't care who was playing his flute, or what they called it. Perhaps if more Presidents were getting it, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in today.


Are you suggesting that the current first lady isn't fulfilling her obligations?


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

bfree said:


> Are you suggesting that the current first lady isn't fulfilling her obligations?


IDK. I will say that I think she is a really good looking woman.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Clinton balanced the budget


No, he didn't....we did. We paid for it.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

vellocet said:


> No, he didn't....we did. We paid for it.


/TJ ON
Even that is not possible today. 
/TJ OFF


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Clinton balanced the budget, so I don't care who was playing his flute, or what they called it. Perhaps if more Presidents were getting it, we wouldn't be in the financial mess we are in today.


Yeah, you're right, he single handedly solved the crisis. No one else was involved it was all him. If you think the President has that kind of power or influence you are grossly mistaken and misdirected.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

vellocet said:


> No, he didn't....we did. We paid for it.


And the President doesn't do anything with the budget except approve it.......


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Squeakr said:


> Yeah, you're right, he single handedly solved the crisis. No one else was involved it was all him. If you think the President has that kind of power or influence you are grossly mistaken and misdirected.


Hey Squeakr, my man!

This was Just another fluid response by our fav poster. If he'd just bother checking the congressional record, he'll find Mr Cigar was forced to balance the budget by the Newt. Just like what's gonna start happening now (I hope).

Makes me think. Cheaters are liars. Even under oath... Wow. Such a strong desire to lie.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Q tip said:


> Hey Squeakr, my man!
> 
> This was Just another fluid response by our fav poster. If he'd just bother checking the congressional record, he'll find Mr Cigar was forced to balance the budget by the Newt. Just like what's gonna start happening now (I hope).
> 
> Makes me think. Cheaters are liars. Even under oath... Wow. Such a strong desire to lie.


Heck all one has to do is just look at history and it generally takes 8-10 years for any congressional act to have made difference, so those that think something enacted can change things in a 6 months time are greatly mistaken (and I am referring to anything that a first term president enacts that within those 6 months has created great change and everyone credits them with the change, when it was in actuality actions put into place years prior, possibly under another's terms).

Also some think it is not a lie if they truly believe it, hence the reason that some can outwardly lie and not show reaction on polygraphs (this is not a validity/non-validity of polygraph claim, just that the needle doesn't move/register in these situations as they truly believe the item questions and thus don't have a reaction to such questions).


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Apparently there is a politics forum on TAM.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Apparently there is a politics forum on TAM.


There you go with logic.&#55357;&#56846;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> There you go with logic.��
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Mr. Cigar needs a new category though..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I'm with you on that POV intheory.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Q tip said:


> It's called boundaries. Include a kiss or exclude a kiss. It's up to the couple. Where does one draw the line. How long maybe? 20 seconds, it's just plain old fine. 20.1 seconds, Divorce...



*Q-Man: Let's just say that if did a short 5 second tongue-swap with some good looking gal in the presence of her old man, that by the time he got through working my ass over, comparatively speaking, ground-up sausage meat would look so much more intact than my ass ever would!

And by some people's standards, kissing is not even considered to be sex!*


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

vellocet said:


> No, he didn't....we did. We paid for it.


Whatever. I was just answering Squeakr, and really don't want to T/J this thread, so we can discus it on another one.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> Yeah, you're right, he single handedly solved the crisis. No one else was involved it was all him. If you think the President has that kind of power or influence you are grossly mistaken and misdirected.


Don't really care. You brought it up, not me. I was just answering you about the BJ thing, I'm not going to T/J this thread. If you want to talk politics start another thread and I'll visit.


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## Q tip (Apr 15, 2014)

Most Anyone who says oral is not sex, and a kiss is no concern merely needs to catch his/her spouse in that act and will likely deem it an issue after all.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

The way I look at it. A BJ is always sex, so is f88king. A kiss may or may not be, depending on the situation. But ANY one on one encounter between a married person or a person in a (supposedly) exclusive relationship and another individual, is cheating if the intent to cheat or deceive is present. Doesn't really matter what kind of contact it is. Personally , I would view the excuse that "we only kissed" with a fair amount of skepticism.


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## I dunno (Nov 14, 2012)

All depends, ya sort of know. A good idea is to get things in writing, then there's no misunderstanding. It's enough to drive anyone NUTS, though! xxx


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Whatever. I was just answering Squeakr, and really don't want to T/J this thread, so we can discus it on another one.


No you weren't answering as there was no question pondered and no references made to his merits or actions, just quotes to his testimony in front on an inquiry panel. You were just trying to be cute and make a smart comment.


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## Meltherapist (Feb 25, 2010)

Hi there

If some one says "we only hugged" or "we only kissed" they are admitting to the crossing of a boundary. If hugging and kissing are actions done in the confines of your committed relationship, then crossing those boundaries will ultimately hurt that relationship. Find out more about his in a great book called Not Just Friends. Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Squeakr said:


> No you weren't answering as there was no question pondered and no references made to his merits or actions, just quotes to his testimony in front on an inquiry panel. You were just trying to be cute and make a smart comment.


Whatever, dude.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Rookie4 said:


> Whatever, dude.


Yeah, Whatever. Like we tell WS all the time "own your sh!t! Your t/j took this off topic with the political, where it wouldn't have gone without your comment. Admit your error and move on instead of trying to blame shift it onto me and others. Heck I even changed my comment to add President as I was just going to say Clinton but didn't want to get called out for not using the title and giving the respect so trying to keep it on topic there as well.


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

Meltherapist said:


> Hi there
> 
> If some one says "we only hugged" or "we only kissed" they are admitting to the crossing of a boundary. If hugging and kissing are actions done in the confines of your committed relationship, then crossing those boundaries will ultimately hurt that relationship. Find out more about his in a great book called Not Just Friends. Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


I agree with this. If you are in a (supposedly) committed relationship, any physical contact with anyone else, would be cheating. I think Meltherapist has it right, it should be viewed as an admission of guilt......not an excuse.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Meltherapist said:


> Hi there
> 
> If some one says "we only hugged" or "we only kissed" they are admitting to the crossing of a boundary. If hugging and kissing are actions done in the confines of your committed relationship, then crossing those boundaries will ultimately hurt that relationship. Find out more about his in a great book called Not Just Friends. Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


Wow. Resident Therapist. First Time I've seen that under someone's username


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

vellocet said:


> Wow. Resident Therapist. First Time I've seen that under someone's username












Please forgive me but this was I could think about when I saw that user name.


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