# Separation and Tough Love



## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

Hello everyone! My husband and I have been separated for almost 2 months now. He left me and my two daughters on the 20th of December. 

I am heart broken, lost and felt sick to my stomach. I still keep waking up and hope that it was a bad dream.

I have been trying to make things work for us. He told me he no longer loved me and did not want to be with me. I was cooking beautiful meals and wanted to show him what he is missing out on. We were also having sex. He would never stay though and leave straight after. 

I had my wake up call recently though. As we had just finished being intimate and we were laying in bed and I had asked him how he was and he said to me his still hadn't changed his mind and doesn't love me and doesn't know if he will ever again. My heart broke again. Things were going so well and to say this to me after we had been intimate was awful. I then asked him before he left to be honest with me and tell me there was no love at all for me. He then answered with, ' I do love you but I don't know if it is just a husband loving his wife'. I was very confused.

We saw each other again a couple of days later and he came over in a bad mood. My three year old daughter and one year old daughter had not seen him in two days. He was very grouchy towards my eldest. When we went out as a family, I went to touch my husband on the back and he pulled away from me. I felt incredibly rejected. This is the man I have been with 8 and a half years. Married to for two and he was treating me like a stranger. 

This was the time to cut him loose. Let him go. He clearly had no intentions of coming home and did not want to be with me. The next day, I made the decision I cannot keep going the way I am, stuck in limbo. Wondering if he will ever love me again, will he ever come back? Will he want to reconcile? He has been living out of his suit case for the last two months. All his belongings and clothes are still at home. I made the decision to bag his clothes up and box up his belongings for him to take with him when he visits the girls next. I have been reading a fantastic book called 'Love must be tough' grovelling, begging, crying, using sex will not work to make your spouse come back. If anything it makes you look desperate, needy and looks like you have no self esteem.

I have now realised, what I was doing was not ok. My husband was treating me a bit like a door mat. He has been having the best of both worlds. No more. He collected his belongings yesterday and was surprised to say the least I had packed it all up. I had also removed all the wedding photos etc in the house as it is heartbreaking to look at everyday. He was shocked to see they had been removed too. I had also set out a visitation routine too as my daughters need it because at the moment my eldest is so upset and heartbroken  he did not like this either. I have arranged for him to visit a Wednesday evening and to have the girls for a full day on the Sunday. Twice a week. He said the roster was selfish and to suit me. He was nasty and then proceeded to call me a selfish b***h. I did not yell or respond to this behaviour. I stayed calm and he slammed the door and left. I have never stopped him from seeing the children but he needs to understand he LEFT us. I cannot plan my life around him and when it suits him. 

I love him very much, I can't switch that off and I have no intentions of dating etc but I have learnt I need to have self respect and pride. I am a strong and confident woman, who is also an incredible mother. For almost two months I have been raising these two girls. I have been left with the responsibility of the home and also the animals. He must also understand he has chosen for this to no longer be his home. He cannot leave all his belongings here and expect that to be ok. This is no longer his home, he has chosen for his brothers to be his new home. 

Myself and my children come first now. I hope my husband realises what he has lost. A beautiful family and devoted wife.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

You did what often takes some people months. You did good!

You know there is likely another woman in the picture, right?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## Redactus (Nov 22, 2015)

Wow, you really are a strong woman. Congratulations for being able to do what most could not or would not for a long long time. Farside is right, there is likely another woman. Hang in there - you did it right. Time will heal the emotional wounds.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

farsidejunky said:


> You did what often takes some people months. You did good!
> 
> You know there is likely another woman in the picture, right?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk



Maybe, but I think my husband might be suffering from a bit of depression and he is not going to get help. I mentioned to him once about getting some professional help and he said 'not right now'. I have never mentioned it again. 

He has made his bed and now he must lie in it. I will not be seen as soft and weak.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Only the presence of another woman could jade his heart in such a way!

Please get yourself checked out for the presence of STD's. All that your H really wants out of you anymore is his very own sexual satisfaction, whenever, of course, he is not into a position to procure it from his OW!

You are greatly what they refer to as his "Plan B!"

Please move on and file for D, and show him that you are a "Plan A" that he will never again be a part of! 

Let's just say that you, as well as your entire family, deserve far, far better out of life!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Where has your husband been staying?

I agree with the others. He most likely is having an affair.

He told you the following: ' I do love you but I don't know if it is just a husband loving his wife'. 

That is a verions of "I love you but am not in-love with you." That means that he loves you like he would love a sister or cousin. But he does not feel that passionate, infatuation in-love feeling that people have in the beginning of a new relationship.

Most people who are having an affair say some version of that. It's a huge clue that there is an affair going on. Usually the person has found someone who they fall forand have that new-love thing going. What it does is that it diminishes their passion/love for their spouse.

Do you have access to his cell phone bill? If you do, check it and see if the is a number that he has been texting and talking to a lot.

You really do need to know if there is an affair going on because if he comes back and wants to get back with you, the way you handle it is different depending on if there is an affair.

Also, along the line of what you learned from that book, take a look at the link in my signature block below for the 180. That is a good outline for how to interact with him from here on out.

You need to see a lawyer, You have no legal right to set the visitation schedule you told him about. At this point your home is still his legal residence. He has every right move back in. 

So see a lawyer, have them file for divorce and file that he no longer lives at your home and to set up an interim custody and time-sharing schedule. The lawyer can also help you with setting up any child support or spousal support you are entitled to. 
Filing first for divorce does not necessarily give an advantage in the long run, but in the short run it can because your lawyer can file with the all the things I listed above. That means you establish those things from the get go.


Here is what can happen if you don’t file quickly.

Someone is very likely to advise him to move back into the house and even play up to you while he files for divorce. That way he can set himself up as living in the home. He cannot kick you out. But he can live here and make your life miserable. He can also file to have more custody and visitation that you are allowing.

Plus, and it is a big plus, filing let him know that he is not calling the shots here. It could shock him. He is already shocked with what you have done. Filing really lets him know that you are not playing games.

And, if a miracle happens and you two end up not wanting a divorce, it can always be stopped any time before the judge signs the final decree. And there is always remarriage.

But at least you filing will put you in a strong position. UP to today, he thought that he was in control and could play games with you.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I am proud you finally realized that your self respect was worth more than allowing him to have his cake and eat it, too. 

His behavior is consistent of that of a man in an affair. He may not be in one, but when a spouse starts to get mean, nasty, and resistant to touch, that's usually whats going on. The affair shows them a very distorted life, where the thrill of the affair clouds reality. All he would know is sex, secret rendezvous, and the excitement of someone he doesn't have to face real day to day life with. The reality is that an affair partner, like anyone else, is just a human being. 

Please get a lawyer, file. Please don't take him back, no matter how much you feel you love him. A man that loves you would never treat you like he did. Your integrity deserves better. Get STD tested.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

My first husband of 25 years said the same words. I could not figure out why....I thought depression as well. I did not see any signs of another person...no phone trail, computer history, porn etc. 

After the divorce he admitted to an affair. He apologized and said he regretted our divorce....about a year later.

His depression was guilt internalized. 

Be aware and do some checking.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

Thank you so much to everyone's replies. It has been such a big help!

There is a high possibility he could be having an affair and I am going to go get tested for STD's to be safe.

I live in Australia and we cannot file for divorce until after 12 months of separation. 

I am in control now and to be honest, I think it is driving my husband a little bit crazy. He has sent me a couple of nasty texts too which I have not replied. I will not justify them with a response. He can call me all the names under the sun but the choices I have made for my daughters are right and he has to remember he walked away from us and what I say goes. He has left me to do everything for our children. I will not back down and I will stand my ground.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

DEb...

The Love Must be Tough book was the first time...some 8 years ago...that I saw that gave my dignity back. Dr. Dobson nailed it! 

However, there are some other resources as well. Look up the Last Resort Technique by Michelle Weiner-Davis. It's along those lines.

Keep up the good work. You look more attractive without the "doormat" over your body!


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

There is also a bit more to this that have not included.

On the 18th of December, my husband took my daughter down to the shops to grab dinner, as he left he blew me a kiss through the window, I thought everything was good. His phone was on charge and for some reason I had this gut instinct to check his phone. I guessed the password and got it right. When I looked in the photo album, I found pictures of a very young girl. She only looked about 15 or 16. I confronted him and he said there was kind of someone else. She lived in America and she is 21. He said that he was starting to fall in love with her. I didn't really take it seriously as he said she was in America, on the other side of he world, but I am now having my suspicions she is here. My husband had also been taking selfies of himself, which he never does as he does not have Facebook etc and has never been into that.

I am getting tested for STDs tomorrow. If I have anything I can then confront him.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Deb, I'm in Australia too. You can file for legal separation and set up parenting orders etc. and even do the property settlement, before the divorce in 12 months time.

Get all this stuff sorted now - you need to have a definite date of legal separation, so file, open your own bank account, organise shared custody/visitation and child support. Being in Aus, we don't get alimony (rightly so), so you need to get the child support organised asap.

Your husband is an idiot, I'm so impressed with the way you're handling this. You go girl!


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

Deb87 said:


> Thank you so much to everyone's replies. It has been such a big help!
> 
> There is a high possibility he could be having an affair and I am going to go get tested for STD's to be safe.
> 
> ...


Wow! you have done what took me months to do. You're a strong lady and know your worth. Good for you and don't settle for anything less. I live in Australia too and my divorce hearing is 9 days away! I did it as a sole application and have to attend court because we have children under 18. If I can help in any way, please get in touch. All the best with everything.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

Deb87 said:


> There is also a bit more to this that have not included.
> 
> On the 18th of December, my husband took my daughter down to the shops to grab dinner, as he left he blew me a kiss through the window, I thought everything was good. His phone was on charge and for some reason I had this gut instinct to check his phone. I guessed the password and got it right. When I looked in the photo album, I found pictures of a very young girl. She only looked about 15 or 16. I confronted him and he said there was kind of someone else. She lived in America and she is 21. He said that he was starting to fall in love with her. I didn't really take it seriously as he said she was in America, on the other side of he world, but I am now having my suspicions she is here. My husband had also been taking selfies of himself, which he never does as he does not have Facebook etc and has never been into that.
> 
> I am getting tested for STDs tomorrow. If I have anything I can then confront him.


So scary, I also had to get tested for STD's due to a cheating husband. Thank goodness my results were clear. Hope yours is too. Such a scandalous act, hey!


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

frusdil said:


> Deb, I'm in Australia too. You can file for legal separation and set up parenting orders etc. and even do the property settlement, before the divorce in 12 months time.
> 
> Get all this stuff sorted now - you need to have a definite date of legal separation, so file, open your own bank account, organise shared custody/visitation and child support. Being in Aus, we don't get alimony (rightly so), so you need to get the child support organised asap.
> 
> Your husband is an idiot, I'm so impressed with the way you're handling this. You go girl!


Thank you for the advice. I have now applied officially for child support. I had told my husband a couple of weeks ago I wasn't going to and he can just pay me $200 a week for the girls, but after his attitude and behaviour, I have now done it officially. I will send him a text tomorrow morning that I have officially done it and I am sure they will be in contact soon.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Deb87 said:


> There is also a bit more to this that have not included.
> 
> On the 18th of December, my husband took my daughter down to the shops to grab dinner, as he left he blew me a kiss through the window, I thought everything was good. His phone was on charge and for some reason I had this gut instinct to check his phone. I guessed the password and got it right. When I looked in the photo album, I found pictures of a very young girl. She only looked about 15 or 16. I confronted him and he said there was kind of someone else. She lived in America and she is 21. He said that he was starting to fall in love with her. I didn't really take it seriously as he said she was in America, on the other side of he world, but I am now having my suspicions she is here. My husband had also been taking selfies of himself, which he never does as he does not have Facebook etc and has never been into that.
> 
> I am getting tested for STDs tomorrow. If I have anything I can then confront him.



I'm sorry to hear this. I do agree with you that she is most likely local. His actions reflect that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Deb87 said:


> Thank you for the advice. I have now applied officially for child support. I had told my husband a couple of weeks ago I wasn't going to and he can just pay me $200 a week for the girls, but after his attitude and behaviour, I have now done it officially. I will send him a text tomorrow morning that I have officially done it and I am sure they will be in contact soon.


Don't text him hun. He will find out in due time. You don't need to explain it. It's there for a reason. Texting him before it's even been processed just tips your hand. You are SHOWING this man that you are done and he can't do child support on his terms, because he is untrustworthy.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

So, here are the messages I have received today from my husband. Nasty yet again.

Please note: The Sunday before I Australia Day, I invited him to come to the pools with me and the girls on Australia Day and he didn't confirm and said to me 'have fun with that' now he is turning it around to make me feel guilty. 

He never rings me to see how the girls are or if he wants to chat to my eldest and I have NEVER said he can't ring me (I have family and friends who have also been witness to him not ringing at all for days) he expects me to do all the chasing. HE left! 

I will not feel guilty and I will not respond to the nastiness. It's like he is a little kid throwing a tantrum.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Keep at it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Deb87 said:


> Thank you so much to everyone's replies. It has been such a big help!
> 
> There is a high possibility he could be having an affair and I am going to go get tested for STD's to be safe.
> 
> ...


I suspect an affair also.

Quit banging him until that's over.

Quit inviting him to do stuff.

No contact.

Start going out and meeting people as best you can.

Be interesting and mysterious.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

farsidejunky said:


> Keep at it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


We've seen all this crap a million times.

It does tend to get one a bit jaded, but the script does not change.

He'll project everything he's doing onto you.

The less you say the better.

Talk less, do more.

Keep in mind, if you love him (it's clear you do) that a man can bang damned near anything with no real connection. It's likely he has "not" given away his heart. He's simply in a fog.

IF you stay strong, mysterious, attractive, lose weight, be more interesting, and quit inviting... he'll start nosing around to see what you're up to.

Then YOU get to decide if you wish to try to keep him.

Trust me on this. Been there, done that.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

With two very young children, schedule and routine are important. It makes the kids feel secure and keeps the caregiver from being overwhelmed. It's not at all unreasonable to ask that he keep to a schedule. It's also not unreasonable for both of you to refrain from changing the schedule without very good reason.

Hopefully, you two will be able to reach an agreement and get it hammered out before going to court. If not, at least you'll be able to have a judge make a ruling if you can't agree.

Also, tell him that any messages involving name calling or relationship drama will be ignored. That any phone calls where he raises his voice, name calls, or tries to talk about the marriage will be ended immediately. The only acceptable communication is in relation to the children and financial or divorce related business. And follow through. Any time he name calls or raises his voice or tries to drag you into some relationship argument, do NOT engage. Eventually, he'll learn to behave like a civilized adult human.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

Of course I love him. I can't switch that off. He is the man I have chosen to be with for the rest of my life but I will not be a doormat either. He was getting the best of both worlds. He is finding it frustrating that I am not replying. He just sent me a message. My daughter wanted to ring her dad last night to say goodnight, he knew it was her bed time when I had rang but it had rang twice and then he hung up. He then messaged an hour later to say he was having dinner with his sister and what was up. My daughter and I were both asleep by that time and I certainly did not reply to the message.

I really appreciate all the help and advice from everyone on here. I have never been through this before and it is all a learning curve.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Deb,

Start respecting yourself and the world will respect you - including him.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Read that last message several times and ponder it's meaning.

I'm willing to wager you have NEVER left him wanting some sort of answer that you didn't provide.

Read his question again... do not answer it, and smile.

Welcome to the new mysterious, vivacious Deb - who has a full life outside of his orbit.

It's pretty simple. He wants you to take his crap.

Don't do it.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> farsidejunky said:
> 
> 
> > Keep at it.
> ...



Thank you for your advice. I feel so much better not chasing him. Sending him texts etc I feel so much more confident and convinced I no longer need someone like him in my life. I can do way better (not that I am interested in dating at all, I don't think I could ever trust a man again except for my own father).


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

Well, my daughter asked me again if she could ring her Dad to say goodnight. Phone rang twice and he hung up. Second night in a row now he has done it. He was complaining today that he had not spoken to our eldest daughter who is three. I am not longer doing it. I did it for my daughter but he is refusing to answer.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Document in a journal all these times you've called, and all the times he's been unavailable. Screenshot the call log on your phone to prove you called at those times. 

Nothing at this time is too meaningless to document. Document everything.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

So here are the latest messages. As stated in my previous blog, my daughter wanted to call before bed, I let her and again after two rings he hung up. I have NOT blocked his number, he never rings to talk to her. I never said he couldn't, i have said if he wants to ring and talk to her he can.

Yet again, being nasty. Projecting all his crap onto me.


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

So you didn't tell him that you'd call so he could talk to your daughter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Deb,

Don't take the bait.

Set up a firm time where you will take his call.

10-15 minute window in the evening should be enough.

After that, ignore him.

If it's a priority to him, he will comply.

If not? It's not your problem.

Keep standing up and stay strong.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

I am standing strong and not falling for any of it. I have just messaged him and and said if he would like to talk to Evelyn before bed time, he can ring at 8pm.

Up to him now.


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## DanielleBennett (Oct 9, 2015)

I wouldn't even tell him that you are pursuing him for child support. He should know from common sense that he has to pay up if he leaves the marriage and leaves the kids. Would also show that you are not letting him jerk you around anymore and that you mean business. I have so much respect for you for doing the 180 and not letting him have his cake and to eat it too. I know it is hard to separate/go through a divorce, but now you know that it is for the better and you can grieve and not have your heart being led around constantly. It will get better.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

DanielleBennett said:


> I wouldn't even tell him that you are pursuing him for child support. He should know from common sense that he has to pay up if he leaves the marriage and leaves the kids. Would also show that you are not letting him jerk you around anymore and that you mean business. I have so much respect for you for doing the 180 and not letting him have his cake and to eat it too. I know it is hard to separate/go through a divorce, but now you know that it is for the better and you can grieve and not have your heart being led around constantly. It will get better.


Thank you. Do you know what the worst part about this is? I still love him so much. I wish I could switch it off the way he has switched his love off for me. I am experiencing what loneliness and the life as a single mother is like. I miss my companion. My partner. I feel so stupid for falling in love with this man, spending 9 years together. I do not regret our two beautiful daughters but I never envisioned this life for them. My husband has walked away from something so incredibly amazing. A beautiful family, awesome wife. I dont understand how he can be so selfish?!


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

This is the email I had to send to him recently too as he has been so persistent about taking the girls away overnight.


Dear Erin,

I wanted to write you an email in regards to the discussion about the girls.

When you left almost two months ago, you never once asked what the girls and I wanted. Ever since you left it has all been about you and what you wanted. 

Since you left, I have not left the girls for more than a few hours. They have been nowhere overnight, I have not been away from them overnight. As you know, Evelyn sleeps with me every night and has done ever since the night you left. When she does sleep in her own bed, she will wake up at midnight crying and wanting to know when her Dad will be coming home.

Since you have left, I have never kept you from the girls, I have always made sure they see you on a regular basis. I have also never stopped your family from seeing them either. Since I wasn't given the chance to explain to you last night why the girls staying away from me overnight will only hurt them more, I will explain it to you now. You left us. You can keep saying you only left me and not the girls but you left the mother of your children and your two daughters and decided to no longer be a family. When you left, Evelyn kept asking me 'why did Daddy leave?' The question in the last couple of weeks has now changed to 'why did daddy leave me?' I keep reassuring her that you love her very much and she will see you soon. She feels abandoned. If I close the door in the house to have a moment of privacy, Evelyn forces me to open it as she can't see me. She is very insecure and because I have been here 24/7 since you left, she does not want to leave me and Emma has become increasingly clingy to me too.

You or your parents taking Evelyn and Emma away for 2-3 days at this stage will only cause more damage than good. Evelyn will then feel abandoned by me too because you are taking her away from me and she will know that she will not be returning within a few hours. I will not have Evelyn subjected to being hurt even more. I am more than happy for your parents to come up to Perth and take the girls out for the day, I will never stop your parents from seeing their grandchildren. I have every right to say no to them going away over night. I am their Mother and have been by their side since you left. Also, this nonsense in regards to me blocking your number is ridiculous as I have not and would never do that. You would not be able to message me or leave a voicemail if that were the case. 

I want to create security and stability for the girls, specifically Evelyn as Emma is too young to understand what is going on. You must give this time. I did not say to you or your parents the girls will never being going away to Collie in the future, I simply said right now and for quite a long time, in the best interest of the girls, it will not happen. Them going away will only break the security I am trying create for them right now. 

While at the shops today, I had to witness Evelyn breakdown in the middle of the store, fall to the floor in tears because she doesn't understand why her Dad will never be returning home. This is only the tip of the iceberg of what I have had to watch happen when you left.

Please, please you and your parents need to take the time to understand what I have stated above and and if you are unwilling and don't want to, it is selfish and you are only concerned about your wants and not what is best for the girls.

Your threats, name calling, guilt trips and aggressiveness will only be ignored by me. You also bringing your parents into this and threatening me with a statement that they have offered to hire you a lawyer is unbelievably childish.


One day, not anytime soon but one day, you will regret the decision you have made. You have left a beautiful, smart, caring, loving, loyal and devoted wife who has only ever loved you with every part of her being. You have walked away so easily from a life we have created together and shown no remorse. You have walked away from having a complete, loving family. You have broken this family apart. When you do realise it will be too late as I would have already moved on with my life. The trust is gone.

I am ready to talk when you are ready to start acting like a civilised human being.

Regards,

Debbie.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

I hate to say it, but I read that email as an attempt at manipulation and a guilt trip in an effort to make him come home. I know that's not how you meant it to sound, but you kept bringing up the marriage and how he'll regret it, etc. 

One of the things I learned in my own divorce with young kids and watching friends and family divorce with young kids is that you have to separate the kids interests and parenting time discussions from marriage/relationship discussions.

If I were sending that email, it would simply say 

"Since you left the house, the girls have been very clingy and very insecure. I do not feel an overnight is in their best interests at this time. In the future, when they have had time to adjust, we can revisit overnights.

I have no desire to keep the children from you. You are their father. I only ask that you limit contact with me to the topic of the children and refrain from name calling and other incendiary behavior and that you respect the children's schedule. If you'd like to say goodnight to the girls, please call by 8 pm so that they have time to speak with you before bed.

I have no desire to keep the children from their family. Of course, your parents are welcome to visit and spend time with their grandchildren. I only ask that I be given advance notice so that I can arrange our schedule to allow time for them to spend together. 

I have not blocked your phone number. I was simply unavailable to take your call. You are, of course, free to leave a voicemail or send a text. I will respond if response is appropriate.

Sincerely,
Deb"


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Yep, way too many feelings in the email. You need to stick to facts. Any emotions will just backfire on you. You can't argue with facts (well he may try, but it won't "hurt" you as much as him arguing with your FEELINGS). 

So take the feelings out. Re-read it until you sound like a technical journal. Rage/vent here if you need to, but keep documented correspondence to business, only. You are reminding him the door is open. You do not tell him/guilt him to walk through. He decides if/when that happens. I'm sorry your daughter is suffering. Please get her into therapy immediately. It will help teach you strategies with her, too.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Deb,

At this point, communication needs to avoid what I loosely call "victim puke"

Anytime you feel you are making the case as to why you have been wronged, it will promote only defensiveness and nastiness from him.


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## Deb87 (Jan 7, 2016)

ReturntoZero said:


> Deb,
> 
> At this point, communication needs to avoid what I loosely call "victim puke"
> 
> Anytime you feel you are making the case as to why you have been wronged, it will promote only defensiveness and nastiness from him.


Point taken. Thank you x


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Deb87 said:


> Point taken. Thank you x


Your openness humbles me.


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## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> I hate to say it, but I read that email as an attempt at manipulation and a guilt trip in an effort to make him come home. I know that's not how you meant it to sound, but you kept bringing up the marriage and how he'll regret it, etc.
> 
> One of the things I learned in my own divorce with young kids and watching friends and family divorce with young kids is that you have to separate the kids interests and parenting time discussions from marriage/relationship discussions.
> 
> ...


Perfection


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I just want to encourage you, Deb, that you are doing fantastic! I know this is so very difficult. You are extremely strong but take care of yourself.

Sending hugs to you!!!!


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