# Cheating again?



## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

I suspect my wife is cheating on me again or at the very least is having conversations with another man. I want to monitor her text message activity but because she is using iMessage on her iPhone, the phone numbers associated with iMessages are not reported by our cellular carrier. I was hoping someone could point me to where on TAM I might find tips on how to monitor her iMessage activity. I definitely need to access the cell numbers she is communicating with, getting the content of those messages would be a bonus.
Thx.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't even have a phone. So I can't help you here at all. But I can say..... you suspect her cheating AGAIN?

I'd have already been gone. But this is your post. Ask for her phone and passcode. If she says no....there's your answer.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> I don't even have a phone. So I can't help you here at all. But I can say..... you suspect her cheating AGAIN?
> 
> I'd have already been gone. But this is your post. Ask for her phone and passcode. If she says no....there's your answer.


We have children so reconciliation seemed the best route after the first case of infidelity.
I have her passcode but she has been guarding her phone lately. Asking for her phone will only tip her off and I could lose potential to get evidence. I want to gather up all evidence before confronting. She’ll deny anyway, so I want the proof to throw back at her.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I don't agree with staying for the kids but I do understand why some do. Not giving you her phone tells you all you

need to know. But if she is cheating again, are you done this time?


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

if you have an iPad, if you can get her appleID signed in to it, the iMessages will show up there.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> I don't agree with staying for the kids but I do understand why some do. Not giving you her phone tells you all you
> 
> need to know. But if she is cheating again, are you done this time?


It wasn’t an easy decision but thought it was the right one. If she is cheating again the yes I’m done. That is why I need all the evidence I to confirm my suspicion and make the right decision.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

dubsey said:


> if you have an iPad, if you can get her appleID signed in to it, the iMessages will show up there.


I do have her apple ID but not sure how to set it up without tipping her off. Anytime I log into anything a notification goes out to her for security purposes.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

If you have the phone, can't you just delete the notification?
Make sure you login FROM the ipad though -- and delete THAT notification as well ("a new device...")


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I still say ask for her phone..... that cuts out all the extended BS. But if you wish to go the long route.... check her FB account, 

debit card receipts, other bank accounts. Since she has done this before and you allowed her back.... she has studied her

craft and become much more undetectable. But if she uses technology, she will get busted.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> If you have the phone, can't you just delete the notification?
> Make sure you login FROM the ipad though -- and delete THAT notification as well ("a new device...")


I don’t have her phone right now and she keeps it with her almost constantly (obvious red flag).


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Let me see your phone right now or I will see a lawyer at 8:00 AM tomorrow. And mean it


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

You could put a VAR under the seat in her car. That may pick up some evidence.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> I still say ask for her phone..... that cuts out all the extended BS. But if you wish to go the long route.... check her FB account,
> 
> debit card receipts, other bank accounts. Since she has done this before and you allowed her back.... she has studied her
> 
> craft and become much more undetectable. But if she uses technology, she will get busted.





Chuck71 said:


> Let me see your phone right now or I will see a lawyer at 8:00 AM tomorrow. And mean it


She deletes the text messages. So they won’t be on her phone which is why I need to monitor the activity somehow without her knowing.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

They have phone recovery software... BUT you need to grab her phone for a few hours to do that...


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

If she has already committed adultery once, you should be able to go to her with your concerns without being called controlling. I’m with @Chuck71 , just bluntly make your demands. If she hems and haws, then proceed with D. No one should endure a 2nd affair.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> She deletes the text messages. So they won’t be on her phone which is why I need to monitor the activity somehow without her knowing.



This is TELLING...... WITF would you want to stay? Your kids are seeing this play out 1st hand.

Wish I was tech savvy but I'm not.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> You could put a VAR under the seat in her car. That may pick up some evidence.


That’s how I got the ultimate confirmation the first time this happened so will definitely have to do that again.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

jsmart said:


> If she has already committed adultery once, you should be able to go to her with your concerns without being called controlling. I’m with @Chuck71 , just bluntly make your demands. If she hems and haws, then proceed with D. No one should endure a 2nd affair.


She will deny, so getting evidence will give me the real truth.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> That’s how I got the ultimate confirmation the first time this happened so will definitely have to do that again.


Does she know this how you busted her the 1st time?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> This is TELLING...... WITF would you want to stay? Your kids are seeing this play out 1st hand.
> 
> Wish I was tech savvy but I'm not.


I could be wrong but I saw over her shoulder last night she sent a “new message” and when she did leave her phone alone briefly I checked and didn’t see any new messages, just the long running conversations in her messages app.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> Does she know this how you busted her the 1st time?


NOPE!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Then you know the drill! Eyes open, mouth shut. Quiet, calculating.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> Then you know the drill! Eyes open, mouth shut. Quiet, calculating.


Yes, but want to cover all bases by getting the text data as well.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> I suspect my wife is cheating on me again or at the very least is having conversations with another man. I want to monitor her text message activity but because she is using iMessage on her iPhone, the phone numbers associated with iMessages are not reported by our cellular carrier. I was hoping someone could point me to where on TAM I might find tips on how to monitor her iMessage activity. I definitely need to access the cell numbers she is communicating with, getting the content of those messages would be a bonus.
> Thx.


Get your ducks in a row, ghost her. Remaining communication through a lawyer at that point.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

sokillme said:


> Get your ducks in a row, ghost her. Remaining communication through a lawyer at that point.


Isn’t it a bit early to go that route? Maybe my suspicion is unwarranted (don’t think so but anything is possible) so I think those actions are not necessary until I have proof.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

In your shoes I would go deep sleuth mode. I'd also find some way to get at her phone - like hide it when she's not looking and then take it into the bathroom with you and lock the door. Then pretend to find it in some crevasse or something, right in front of her. She'll be relieved she has her phone back and you'll be thanked for finding it. Gotta be a good actor, but I know I could pull it off.

Now, if she changed the passcode on you, then well, you know you have a problem. And if she didn't and you have full access and STILL can't find anything....you then have to decide next steps - either believe she's clean or not.

9/10 times your gut is right. If you just can't catch her after all of your sleuthing but you still think she's cheating, then you could just bluff. Tell her you know she's cheating and you have proof like last time, and if she doesn't confess right then, you are done.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@DV2021 Can you afford a private investigator?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @DV2021 Can you afford a private investigator?


Don’t know, never used one. Would prefer not to and save the money but that could change.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Gabriel said:


> In your shoes I would go deep sleuth mode. I'd also find some way to get at her phone - like hide it when she's not looking and then take it into the bathroom with you and lock the door. Then pretend to find it in some crevasse or something, right in front of her. She'll be relieved she has her phone back and you'll be thanked for finding it. Gotta be a good actor, but I know I could pull it off.
> 
> Now, if she changed the passcode on you, then well, you know you have a problem. And if she didn't and you have full access and STILL can't find anything....you then have to decide next steps - either believe she's clean or not.
> 
> 9/10 times your gut is right. If you just can't catch her after all of your sleuthing but you still think she's cheating, then you could just bluff. Tell her you know she's cheating and you have proof like last time, and if she doesn't confess right then, you are done.


I’m inclined to agree with you. My gut was right the first time but feel like I am already second guessing my gut feeling now. But all the signs are there. I just don’t know.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> If you have the phone, can't you just delete the notification?
> Make sure you login FROM the ipad though -- and delete THAT notification as well ("a new device...")


Can I use an old iPhone that is no longer part of our cellular plan but still connects to wifi and the internet?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

If you have her Apple ID check her iCloud account


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DV2021 said:


> Can I use an old iPhone that is no longer part of our cellular plan but still connects to wifi and the internet?


Not sure -- I don't have an iPhone -- I was referring to HER phone -- if you can add the iPad to the account, then HER phone (active) would probably get the ping and you would have to delete that.
As for her older phone that still works as a device, but NOT a phone -- not sure, but it sounds feasible. Someone who has an iPhone should be able to answer that soon...


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## 71bgol (Nov 30, 2013)

DV2021 said:


> Can I use an old iPhone that is no longer part of our cellular plan but still connects to wifi and the internet?


yes, you can


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

DV2021 said:


> Isn’t it a bit early to go that route?


Early?

Pfft. Way overdue. She's playing you for a fool and seems to be enjoying it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Yes, but want to cover all bases by getting the text data as well.


Don't worry about that. You could way too easily tip your hand if you're not super-careful. The beauty of the VAR is that we live in a high-tech age so cheaters are expecting high-tech sleuthing methods. They're expecting you to go after emails and text messages and website passwords. The VAR hits them out of the blue. We've seen it here so many times. I don't remember a story on TAM about a time a VAR didn't deliver the goods. I'm sure it's happened, but overall the success rate is really, really high.

PLUS- tone of voice is such a big thing. Text by itself can be claimed to have been read in the wrong context. The same sentence can mean very different things. Vocal inflection is another matter entirely. And hearing your own voice, not reading it? I hope I never have reason to discover how priceless that must be.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

You should never have stayed the first time.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

The best way is to use her phone, unfortunately. Don't forget to swipe up the iMessage window at the end, otherwise she'll notice you have used it...


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> The best way is to use her phone, unfortunately. Don't forget to swipe up the iMessage window at the end, otherwise she'll notice you have used it...


I tested this using my iCloud ID on my old iPhone 6. Older messages were retrieved but messages from the last day or so are not coming through and new messages are not either. Any tech help would be greatly appreciated.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

does she have a gmail email ? even if you delete things in the email or related text google saves everything.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> I tested this using my iCloud ID on my old iPhone 6. Older messages were retrieved but messages from the last day or so are not coming through and new messages are not either. Any tech help would be greatly appreciated.


Why are you testing your iCloud ID? I'm not really an expert, but if you try and access her messages through her iCloud account, she will get a notification...


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Why are you testing your iCloud ID? I'm not really an expert, but if you try and access her messages through her iCloud account, she will get a notification...


Because I wanted to see if it would work and what notifications would pop up that I would need to ensure she doesn’t see when I finally use her iCloud ID.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> does she have a gmail email ? even if you delete things in the email or related text google saves everything.





Lostinthought61 said:


> does she have a gmail email ? even if you delete things in the email or related text google saves everything.


Yes she does have gmail through her work but not sure it is synched with her iPhone. Where does google save all that?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Because I wanted to see if it would work and what notifications would pop up that I would need to ensure she doesn’t see when I finally use her iCloud ID.


I think she will... I get notifications if Apple detects a log-in from a slight different location or a different device... sometimes I have to insert a verification code...


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I think she will... I get notifications if Apple detects a log-in from a slight different location or a different device... sometimes I have to insert a verification code...


Yes there was the two factor authorization code that popped up and also a second notification that displayed hours later saying that the icloud account is now being used on another device. Not sure how I’m going to avoid her seeing that second one if I cannot get possession of her phone for an extended period.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Yes there was the two factor authorization code that popped up and also a second notification that displayed hours later saying that the icloud account is now being used on another device. Not sure how I’m going to avoid her seeing that second one if I cannot get possession of her phone for an extended period.


I don't think you can... the system has been design exactly for this purpose...


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> I don’t have her phone right now and she keeps it with her almost constantly (obvious red flag).


Wait until she is sound asleep. Four AM is usually a good time. 
Listen to her breathing, the rougher sounds, the better. 

Also synch her phone to that I-Pad at this time. Delete the notifications.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> Wait until she is sound asleep. Four AM is usually a good time.
> Listen to her breathing, the rougher sounds, the better.
> 
> Also synch her phone to that I-Pad at this time. Delete the notifications.


Yeah that is my plan but she keeps her phone right next to her on the side table. And she’s a very light sleeper. Should be interesting. So I should use an iPad and not my old iPhone 6?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

A tough call.
Does she look at the IPAD?


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

DV2021 said:


> Yes she does have gmail through her work but not sure it is synched with her iPhone. Where does google save all that?



it's part of google dashboard 






Find, control & delete the info in your Google Account - Google Account Help


Learn more about managing your Google Account info and activity. You can choose what type of activity is saved in your account and used to personalize your experience across Google services. Review y



support.google.com





as long as you have her email and password, also if she has 2-step authentication she will be notified.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

if her phone is personal and not part of a company phone, you could download webwatcher on her phone and that way you will get every text, picture and email she exchanges


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> A tough call.
> Does she look at the IPAD?


No not really. Mostly the kids use the ipad. And it stays home so I can check it during the day while I am still working from my home.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

DV,

What did you do about OM from the last time, there is at least a 25% possibility it's him again.

What were the circumstances for the prior affair, coworker/old boyfriend/internet contact/boss? sexual/emotion ?


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

If she has an old phone that never logged out of appleid, I think it will pickup imessages if you turn it on and connect to wifi.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> it's part of google dashboard
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So she will get a notification in her gmail that her apple ID is being used by another device? In addition to notifications on her phone?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> So she will get a notification in her gmail that her apple ID is being used by another device? In addition to notifications on her phone?


I would have thought so, but I'm not 100% sure...


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I would have thought so, but I'm not 100% sure...


Yes she will get an email


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

MattMatt said:


> @DV2021 Can you afford a private investigator?


Any idea what the going rate is for a PI investigating potential infidelity?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Isn’t there a way to use your wifi router to see activity of devices using said wifi?? Could have sworn there was a type of router, or something you could set up on the router to see all the activity like websites and texts via wifi. Like that’s why people use VPNs right?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> Isn’t there a way to use your wifi router to see activity of devices using said wifi?? Could have sworn there was a type of router, or something you could set up on the router to see all the activity like websites and texts via wifi. Like that’s why people use VPNs right?


I have no idea. I’m useless when it comes to tech stuff like that. But that won’t help when she is texting from work or somewhere else besides home.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> I have no idea. I’m useless when it comes to tech stuff like that. But that won’t help when she is texting from work or somewhere else besides home.


That’s the truth. Does she drink? You could go out to a nice dinner and get her drunk enough to pass out so you can get her phone setup and delete the notifications. Otherwise... that plan isn’t going to work. You could always demand a polygraph too.

That said, I think you should trust your gut. This is no way to live, you don’t want to be going through this every few years do you? Do you actually want to live like this? There’s nothing wrong with calling it quits because you can’t trust that person anymore even if she isn’t cheating again.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

$400 per day but varies depending on where you live. From what others have posted when they hired a PI, a good one has long distance photography equipment that captures pictures even in a dark parking garage as well as the ability to listen in on restaurant table conversation.

To save money you can set up a situation where cheaters would be tempted to meet (like you going out of town on business or to visit a relative). Or you could have the PI follow them at lunch time. If you know of a day of the week when she has a long lunch, target that day.


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## Robert22205 (Jun 6, 2018)

She's cheating again? IMO you don't have to prove anything. She should be doing back flips to prove you are safe from her cheating.

With her history of cheating, she has the burden of proof and should avoid suspicious behavior (including private texts with men and password protecting her phone). With her history of cheating she has no right to private texts if she wants to stay married.

If you can't afford a PI, don't get caught up in her web of abusive behavior. Don't drag out this abuse by trying to catch her in the 'act'.

Inform her that you know she's cheating and deleting texts with her lover. Don't tell her 'how' you know. Let her prove you're wrong. As a cheater her life should be an open book to you.

If the OM is married, inform his wife (without warning your wife) that you believe these two are having an affair. You do not owe a cheater the benefit of the doubt.

Separate your bank accounts and see an attorney about how divorce will impact you. The first hour is often free.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Robert22205 said:


> $400 per day but varies depending on where you live. From what others have posted when they hired a PI, a good one has long distance photography equipment that captures pictures even in a dark parking garage as well as the ability to listen in on restaurant table conversation.
> 
> To save money you can set up a situation where cheaters would be tempted to meet (like you going out of town on business or to visit a relative). Or you could have the PI follow them at lunch time. If you know of a day of the week when she has a long lunch, target that day.


Thanks for that info. Honestly I’d rather not pay that much.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Robert22205 said:


> She's cheating again? IMO you don't have to prove anything. She should be doing back flips to prove you are safe from her cheating.
> 
> With her history of cheating, she has the burden of proof and should avoid suspicious behavior (including private texts with men and password protecting her phone). With her history of cheating she has no right to private texts if she wants to stay married.
> 
> ...


I don’t know if she is cheating again. I have a suspicion but now starting to doubt that a little. I need to put my VAR to work and see if that picks up anything. I really need to see if/when she is text messaging a potential OM.
Btw, I want to prove it (if something is really occurring). I’ll need that proof in case anyone doubts me.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> I don’t know if she is cheating again. I have a suspicion but now starting to doubt that a little. I need to put my VAR to work and see if that picks up anything. I really need to see if/when she is text messaging a potential OM.
> Btw, I want to prove it (if something is really occurring). I’ll need that proof in case anyone doubts me.



Why do you need that proof?

She has already cheated once and is acting shady again. Are you so scared of what others think that you just try and convince yourself that nothing is happening?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Read No More Mr Nice Guy. 

Find your manhood. Find yourself respect.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> Thanks for that info. Honestly I’d rather not pay that much.


Not without a solid tip.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

How tech savvy is your wife?

I ask because, you could say there was a system update for the iPad and you signed back into everything to update the apps or whatever. It'd be good enough for many/most iPhone/iPad users.

Edited to add: If you do this, make sure you turn off the notifications for the Messages App, and then bury the messages app on a back page, or hidden within another group of apps you never open labeled "junk" or whatever.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DV2021 said:


> I don’t know if she is cheating again. I have a suspicion but now starting to doubt that a little. I need to put my VAR to work and see if that picks up anything. I really need to see if/when she is text messaging a potential OM.
> Btw, I want to prove it (if something is really occurring). I’ll need that proof in case anyone doubts me.


Who cares if someone doubts you?

If they do indeed doubt you, does it make it any less real?

I love jiu-jitsu, and Eddie Bravo is a pioneer in the sport. That said, he also believes in flat Earth theory. Should I doubt my belief that the world is round, despite compelling evidence supporting such, even though somebody I greatly respect believes something entirely different?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

Use the darn VAR. It will capture her in the act of talking to her OM. There is one and you know it. You just need confirmation because she will deny til she dies. 

You should have left her the first time. She won't change. Why should she? There were no consequences the first time.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Don’t keep yourself in limbo.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Let me rephrase the part about needing proof. I am the one who really needs proof. And that is necessary to verify whether or not my suspicions are valid. And also because if true, I know my W will deny. The rest does not matter although the OMS, if there is one, may also want proof. The part about doubters relates more to her family, so if they are in denial too then it’s just the validation of proving them wrong. But I understand that has no real importance.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

dubsey said:


> How tech savvy is your wife?
> 
> I ask because, you could say there was a system update for the iPad and you signed back into everything to update the apps or whatever. It'd be good enough for many/most iPhone/iPad users.
> 
> Edited to add: If you do this, make sure you turn off the notifications for the Messages App, and then bury the messages app on a back page, or hidden within another group of apps you never open labeled "junk" or whatever.


She’s not the most tech savvy but she’s also not stupid. I think if she saw a notification that her iCloud ID is being used by another device she would be concerned from a cyber security standpoint at the very least.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Bibi1031 said:


> Use the darn VAR. It will capture her in the act of talking to her OM. There is one and you know it. You just need confirmation because she will deny til she dies.
> 
> You should have left her the first time. She won't change. Why should she? There were no consequences the first time.


I don’t KNOW there is an OM. I suspect there could be. But I have not seen anything in the last couple of days that supports my suspicion. I really need to find my VAR, it wasn’t located where I thought it would be.
I cannot change the past so not going to go through what I should have done. The fact that she has much to lose in terms of credibility and reputation could be enough to keep her from wandering but who knows. I get that most people do not change.


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## dubsey (Feb 21, 2013)

Right, but would she be concerned if she said something about it and you replied, "Oh, yeah, that was me. I did a system update to the iPad and had to sign back into stuff."


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

DV2021 said:


> I don’t KNOW there is an OM. I suspect there could be. But I have not seen anything in the last couple of days that supports my suspicion. I really need to find my VAR, it wasn’t located where I thought it would be.
> I cannot change the past so not going to go through what I should have done. The fact that she has much to lose in terms of credibility and reputation could be enough to keep her from wandering but who knows. I get that most people do not change.


the sad truth is that We know that she is cheating again because Cheaters cheat when there are no consequences to face. She got away with cheating the first time with a mild slap on the wrists. She lost respect for you. That is the only thing you accomplished by sweeping the nasty affair under the rug so to speak. If you can't find your old VAR, get a new one or more than one.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> I suspect my wife is cheating on me again or at the very least is having conversations with another man. I want to monitor her text message activity but because she is using iMessage on her iPhone, the phone numbers associated with iMessages are not reported by our cellular carrier. I was hoping someone could point me to where on TAM I might find tips on how to monitor her iMessage activity. I definitely need to access the cell numbers she is communicating with, getting the content of those messages would be a bonus.
> Thx.


I dont know if you are willing to do this, but you can get a program called mobistealth. It's a monthly service and fairly cheap. You would need access to her phone for maybe 5 minutes in order to put the program on her phone..it will be completely hidden from her as it is not an app that you are installing, its a permission. This will allow you to access her apps, her messages, her phone logs, her locations, pictures and it will record her phone calls for you.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

DV2021...just curious how did you leave it with your wife after you caught her the first time about being completely transparent and about building that trust, does not understand that trust building requires that from time to time you will check on her, surely she should not be shocked if you did check on her from time to time? Or does she feel that she should once again have privacy with out question? Have you not spoken to her over time that there is no next time, that you will divorce her and expose her if she ever cheated again?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Bibi1031 said:


> the sad truth is that We know that she is cheating again because Cheaters cheat when there are no consequences to face. She got away with cheating the first time with a mild slap on the wrists. She lost respect for you. That is the only thing you accomplished by sweeping the nasty affair under the rug so to speak. If you can't find your old VAR, get a new one or more than one.


We don’t know. That’s why I need proof. I finally found the VAR and it appears to be functioning properly.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

emptyandoverit said:


> I dont know if you are willing to do this, but you can get a program called mobistealth. It's a monthly service and fairly cheap. You would need access to her phone for maybe 5 minutes in order to put the program on her phone..it will be completely hidden from her as it is not an app that you are installing, its a permission. This will allow you to access her apps, her messages, her phone logs, her locations, pictures and it will record her phone calls for you.


Looks like Mobistealth is no longer available. Not in app store and cannot access their website.


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## emptyandoverit (Apr 14, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Looks like Mobistealth is no longer available. Not in app store and cannot access their website.


That’s strange I just went to their website after reading your reply and I was able to access it. Mobistealth.com and the iPhone program is $40 for 3 months or $16.66/mo. To me they look fully operational still.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

emptyandoverit said:


> That’s strange I just went to their website after reading your reply and I was able to access it. Mobistealth.com and the iPhone program is $40 for 3 months or $16.66/mo. To me they look fully operational still.


I think the website was being blocked for security purposes. Was able to finally get to it. Thx, I will check it out.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Lostinthought61 said:


> DV2021...just curious how did you leave it with your wife after you caught her the first time about being completely transparent and about building that trust, does not understand that trust building requires that from time to time you will check on her, surely she should not be shocked if you did check on her from time to time? Or does she feel that she should once again have privacy with out question? Have you not spoken to her over time that there is no next time, that you will divorce her and expose her if she ever cheated again?


I explicitly told her she no long has an privacy. I had her provide all passwords, etc. And I told her the next time she cheats that we are definitely done. So she knows the consequences of being caught again. It has been 8 years since, so maybe at this point she may feel like she is entitled to privacy again.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

VAR installed!! Let’s see what that captures.


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## Offkilter123 (Dec 2, 2020)

There is a big difference between privacy and secrecy. Waywards fail to understand this distinction.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Offkilter123 said:


> There is a big difference between privacy and secrecy. Waywards fail to understand this distinction.


I still felt somewhat guilty putting the VAR in her vehicle.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

DV2021 said:


> I still felt somewhat guilty putting the VAR in her vehicle.


Then maybe you're not ready to confront this situation. Are you? If not, maybe let things ride a little longer until you are. Once you really get a "belly full", you will do what you need to do with justification. It's a tough situation.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Then maybe you're not ready to confront this situation. Are you? If not, maybe let things ride a little longer until you are. Once you really get a "belly full", you will do what you need to do with justification. It's a tough situation.


I am definitely ready to confront the situation. I don’t feel any guilt at the moment but did last night setting it up.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> Let me rephrase the part about needing proof. I am the one who really needs proof. And that is necessary to verify whether or not my suspicions are valid. And also because if true, I know my W will deny. The rest does not matter although the OMS, if there is one, may also want proof. The part about doubters relates more to her family, so if they are in denial too then it’s just the validation of proving them wrong. But I understand that has no real importance.


Not true.

From your own thoughts and needs, you have given that validation, importance.

As would... we, from our little sphere, looking in.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> I still felt somewhat guilty putting the VAR in her vehicle.


That is because you still have feelings for her, in play.

I hope, for your sake, that she no longer plays with your trust.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

DV2021 said:


> *I suspect my wife is cheating on me again or at the very least is having conversations with another man*. I want to monitor her text message activity but because she is using iMessage on her iPhone, the phone numbers associated with iMessages are not reported by our cellular carrier. I was hoping someone could point me to where on TAM I might find tips on how to monitor her iMessage activity. I definitely need to access the cell numbers she is communicating with, getting the content of those messages would be a bonus.
> Thx.


I don't even need to read the rest of what you wrote nor any other response.

Why are you not contacting a lawyer?
Why are you allowing her to treat you like this?
Why are you even doing any kind of detective work?

She cheated.
The impetus to be a faithful and trustworthy wife is on her shoulders.
NOT YOURS.
She has to work for the rest of your existence as a married couple to ensure she does nothing to fall back into her cheating ways.
She should be grateful daily that you chose to reconcile.

It's not your job to keep her pointing correctly so she doesn't cheat.

At this point, I believe you should be contacting a lawyer and start the path for a divorce.
Never, Ever stay just for the kids - that is a disaster waiting to happen.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

snerg said:


> I don't even need to read the rest of what you wrote nor any other response.
> 
> Why are you not contacting a lawyer?
> Why are you allowing her to treat you like this?
> ...


I agree with pretty much all of this. My suspicion may be unfounded though. Other than texting a lot and being more guarded with her phone (although the last 2 days she’s let her guard down) and me possibly seeing her send a new message that I couldn’t track down later, I have yet to see anything else that has led me to believe she is possibly cheating. The frequent texting though seems to be with just her friends and co-workers but I still need her phone to dig a little deeper into that. She always tells me where she is going and I have yet to experience any misleading statements in that regard. Maybe my suspicion stem from reverting back to when this occurred previously because our relationship has been almost non-existent in the last 4-6 months. Or maybe longer. Covid definitely didn’t bring her and I closer. Does any if this mean she is cheating? But because she would deny any accusations, I have to do the legwork to confirm or deny infidelity or suspicious behavior.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

DV2021 said:


> I told her the next time she cheats that we are definitely done.


If you feel it necessary to say this you're already done.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> That is because you still have feelings for her, in play.
> 
> I hope, for your sake, that she no longer plays with your trust.


Well she is my wife. But I think it stems more from starting to doubt my suspicions and maybe I feel bad for assuming she is cheating. I don’t know.


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## Bibi1031 (Sep 14, 2015)

It is all good. Soon the VAR will give you something either way. If she is cheating, you will know. If she isn't you will also know. Be patient!


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Well she is my wife. But I think it stems more from starting to doubt my suspicions and maybe I feel bad for assuming she is cheating. I don’t know.


OK.... I'll bite. When you caught her cheating the 1st time or the 1st time you are aware of.......did she deny it at first?

I'm guessing she did, hence busted by VAR. Now you have paranoia thinking she is again. No way to live.

You can love but not trust but that is a very unhealthy love.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> OK.... I'll bite. When you caught her cheating the 1st time or the 1st time you are aware of.......did she deny it at first?
> 
> I'm guessing she did, hence busted by VAR. Now you have paranoia thinking she is again. No way to live.
> 
> You can love but not trust but that is a very unhealthy love.


I never brought anything up about it until I had all the proof, then confronted her. I first gave her an opportunity to confess by asking if there was anything she thought I should know that would affect our marriage. She didn’t so then I just said I knew she was having an affair. She still denied but eventually confessed.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Is this the first time since you busted her that you have had a gut feeling? 8 years ago? This is somewhat

"out of nowhere." But triggers really never go away 100%. Let's say you don't uncover anything after a few weeks.

And you can't access her phone.... then what? I still stand behind the 2nd post of your thread.

Hand me your phone and password or I will be seeing a lawyer at 8AM Monday.

When she asks why are you so controlling? Tell her the first time you cheated is why.

Leave the room whether she gives you the phone or not.

Boundaries 101


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> Is this the first time since you busted her that you have had a gut feeling? 8 years ago? This is somewhat
> 
> "out of nowhere." But triggers really never go away 100%. Let's say you don't uncover anything after a few weeks.
> 
> ...


I have always found it difficult to trust her after her affair. But I would say this is the first instance in some time where my suspicion has been strong. I may have to resort to that tactic. But that could trigger her to inform potential OM that I’m on to them and then I never get any proof.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Don't feel guilty about the VAR. You are checking to see if SHE is guilty of deceiving you.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Well so far VAR hasn’t provided anything, although it was just one day. Was able to sneak a peek in my wife’s phone earlier today while she took a quick shower. Also nothing suspicious. I am having tremendous feelings of guilt today, I think due to today having significant meaning. I cannot stop thinking that if anything, she’s more than likely just not in love with me the way a wife should be. And I am attributing that to my own faults and shortcomings. And I feel like I have no one to talk to about any of this.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Please don't feel guilty about verifying that your spouse is not stabbing you in the heart.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> Please don't feel guilty about verifying that your spouse is not stabbing you in the heart.


Feeling guilty more about failing as a husband.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> Feeling guilty more about failing as a husband.


So let me get this straight... your wife cheats on you. Has little to no remorse about it. Acts suspiciously, again, and YOU are the failure? 🤔

2 + 2 = 64 in your world.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> So let me get this straight... your wife cheats on you. Has little to no remorse about it. Acts suspiciously, again, and YOU are the failure? 🤔
> 
> 2 + 2 = 64 in your world.


I cannot help how I feel. I wish I didn’t feel this way.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Well so far VAR hasn’t provided anything, although it was just one day. Was able to sneak a peek in my wife’s phone earlier today while she took a quick shower. Also nothing suspicious. I am having tremendous feelings of guilt today, I think due to today having significant meaning.* I cannot stop thinking that if anything, she’s more than likely just not in love with me the way a wife should be. And I am attributing that to my own faults and shortcomings. And I feel like I have no one to talk to about any of this.*


Ok...... talk to us. How long M? How was your M up until she started to cheat? Did she give a reason why she cheated?

How has the M been after the cheating? What are your "faults and shortcomings" in your opinion? And what are your

"faults and shortcomings" according to her?

Look.... everyone has POS tendencies.... EVERYONE. The ones you have, OWN them.

And start a path to a better DV2021. Improve yourself.... it's a win-win. You become a better man for it

and if your W has not been seeing or sexting anyone, she will notice the new you.

But......when she cheated the first time.... was in rugswept or was it discussed in detail?

I may be wrong here but I think you have pulled back since the cheating. And that is a very valid reason.

If you have pulled back and she noticed it (women notice this), did she come to you about it?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> I cannot help how I feel. I wish I didn’t feel this way.


I understand, but don’t mix up feelings with reality. Sometimes we feel exactly the opposite of what’s appropriate.

Your wife doesn’t seem to have the type of love and respect for you that you desire. But that doesn’t mean somehow you are undeserving of love... perhaps you are just a poor match?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chuck71 said:


> Ok...... talk to us. How long M? How was your M up until she started to cheat? Did she give a reason why she cheated?
> 
> How has the M been after the cheating? What are your "faults and shortcomings" in your opinion? And what are your
> 
> ...


Don’t have enough time right now to get into all of it. I’ll try to answer as much as I can
1. Marriage was in a rut prior to affair. We were married for 11 years at that time. Wife was pregnant when the contact w OM started. Affair occured nearly a year after she gave birth probably much sooner. I remember I didn’t get her a gift for her bday when she was still pregnant so something was definitely off. When I confronted her, she excused her behavior by blaming me for a lot of things. I didn’t ask/talk her about her father when he was ill so she found comfort in the OM. Things like that. Then I remember maybe a year or two after reconciliation, my w & I were out to dinner celebrating our wedding anniversary and she brought up the affair and tried to blame it partially on postpartum depression. That made me livid. That lame excuse coupled with the fact it was on our anniversary was tremendously insulting. Marriage after that had its ups and downs. We never communicate, sex life non-existent for long periods. 
2. My shortcomings are I’m moody, distant, introverted, sometimes lazy, unimaginative, boring, selfish, etc. probably could keep going on and on. I know I need self improvement I’ve just been in this funk for a while though. Partly due to the pandemic I think, and also because of marriage issues. The family dynamic has not helped either. 
3. She never comes to me about anything. We maybe say 10 words to each other during a normal weekday. One day late last summer/early fall I blew up at her because I was upset that we never talk or have what most consider a functional relationship. Having consumed several glasses of wine brought that on I think. That did nothing to help. Basically we still barely communicate outside of normal daily conversations about what’s happening and what meeds to be done, etc.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Here’s the link to the forum I started back in 2013 when I discovered the affair if anyone is interested in reading it. Had to create a new ID here this time since I couldn’t reactivate my old ID “SoConfused1”








Who do I talk to about possible infidelity?


I started noticing that my wife was texting quite a bit and wondered who she was texting. One day I was able to pick up her phone quickly and noticed a text to a man we knew from a past business dealing. The message itself was nothing of note really but certainly rose my suspicions. Following...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Here’s the link to the forum I started back in 2013 when I discovered the affair if anyone is interested in reading it. Had to create a new ID here this time since I couldn’t reactivate my old ID “SoConfused1”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I remember reading this............... God damn. You had Mach on your thread!! And Shaggy. When is the last time you have 

re-read this thread? I'm sorry but I'm back to "hand me your phone or I will see a D attorney Monday morning"

Be cool, firm, dispassionate. Your handling of the first affair was putrid. Your gut is telling you something.

You gave her a free pass the first time. I have a feeling this is not her 1st venture back into the realm of cheating.

Is it worth cow-tipping for a month or two in exchange for nasty hot sex with others? I think you know the answer


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

Suggested readings.................. Married Man Sex Life Primer (Chap recommended this to you on your old thread, did you read it?)

No More Mr. Nice Guy
Hold on to your N.U.T.S. (not a sex book)
Awareness (DeMello)

It's time to drop the "beta"


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

sorry but you should have just divorced after the affair, perhaps its time to move on now


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

What would be your advice to others who find themselves in your original situation?


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## nekonamida (Feb 21, 2017)

DV, did you ever feel like you got the truth from her about the first affair or did she stick to the ridiculous "one time" story? Did she ever even read the book you gave her or go to IC or do anything remorseful WSes do to fix their ****?


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Hey I just read this little gem you wrote from your last thread toward the very end...

“I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.”

You are literally still the same guy, with the same thinking as you were in 2013... you are saying the exact same things. You heard your wife having sex to your kids favorite song on the radio, and blame yourself for what she did. This is probably the saddest story I’ve ever read here.

You need very deep therapy. Don’t even worry about whether your wife is cheating again, you need to figure out why you’re ok with living in a dead marriage to a person who treats you like trash. God, don’t you think you deserve any joy in life? Any bit of peace?


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

DV, I read your story from the first time she cheated. My thoughts: You should have divorced her instantly upon hearing the VAR, no question. She is a disgusting monster who you can never trust again. I think you know that now. End your marriage and live your life in peace, not in constant fear that she will f$%& you over again and again. Please.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

You fell for her false story that it was only once, that she was sorry, bla bla bla. She knows she can manipulate you. Stop letting yourself be manipulated.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Did you ever get the whole truth the last time? If not, has that not been eating at you all this time?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

QuietRiot said:


> Hey I just read this little gem you wrote from your last thread toward the very end...
> 
> “I've also realized how easily I could have prevented this had I just been a better man and husband. While I don't let my wife on to this I feel awful inside and so guilty and so stupid that I let another man come in and fulfill needs of my wife. This is so hard to come to terms with, and yet I hope this helps make me a better man.”
> 
> You are literally still the same guy, with the same thinking as you were in 2013... you are saying the exact same things. You heard your wife having sex to your kids favorite song on the radio, and blame yourself for what she did. *This is probably the saddest story I’ve ever read here.*


Thornburn is the worst. Link below.









I am back and it gets worse


I thought things were going fine in R. Then several months ago something happened that did not make sense. We moved into our new home (yea I was warned). We went to our other house to get it ready for renters. We drove almost two hours and I took a route that took us about a mile from the...




www.talkaboutmarriage.com


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Chuck71 said:


> Thornburn is the worst. Link below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree. That was a really tough thread. Another one that I tried to stay away from.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

The toughest Threads read are those that cannot be properly chewed over. So bitter, that bile.

Only swallowed... each wiggling tentacle, cold, whole, consumed.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Chuck71 said:


> Thornburn is the worst. Link below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Well you’re right. That’s depressing as hell.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

QuietRiot said:


> Well you’re right. That’s depressing as hell.


Yeah. Extremely.

Still with her as far as anyone knows.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021 said:


> Here’s the link to the forum I started back in 2013 when I discovered the affair if anyone is interested in reading it. Had to create a new ID here this time since I couldn’t reactivate my old ID “SoConfused1”
> 
> 
> 
> ...


DV2021...... c'mon back. No one is going to bash you over the head. Of course you're going to get the "why didn't you D

her then?" That's just a question. The posters here are wanting to help you figure out how you can 1-find out if she is 

cheating again and 2-offer ways and ideas to improve how you view yourself. 

Do you think she respects you at all?.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Chuck71 said:


> DV2021...... c'mon back. No one is going to bash you over the head. Of course you're going to get the "why didn't you D
> 
> her then?" That's just a question. The posters here are wanting to help you figure out how you can 1-find out if she is
> 
> ...


Its possible he hit pay dirt on the VAR and is dealing with that again. Or maybe he’s just self flagellating for having the VAR. Feel really bad for him.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

There was a reason for me feeling guilty yesterday but I’m over that now. And really yesterday was the first time I’ve felt like that since I was able to get over my guilt several years ago. Today I’m feeling anger and frustration. I’m angry at her but also at myself.


Galabar01 said:


> What would be your advice to others who find themselves in your original situation?


My answer to this question would be divorce. And I always thought if something that horrible happened to me, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a divorce. But then it did happen to me. I don’t think I chose reconciliation because I needed my wife or couldn’t let her go. It was because I didn’t want to be away from my children even if it was only a few days a week. I also believe in second chances. And I also didn’t want to upset the status quo and felt my family and hers would be devastated and I didn’t want them going through that.
I don’t think I ever got the full truth from her 8 years ago. Why would she offer all that up? But I am starting to come around to the fact that she may not be cheating only because she knows if I catch her again I’ll expose her to everyone. But to answer Chuck’s question, in my opinion she has no respect for me. And while I respect her as a mother and a person generally, I probably lost all respect for her as a wife some time ago. And that stems from fact she did NOT read the book I got her, plus that she never really seemed remorseful and lacked the desire to make things right and instead just tried to move on. Yeah she said she felt awful for what she did but her actions would indicate otherwise. 
I’m getting angry because she spends her day texting and talking to her family and friends and yet cannot spare any time to actually talk to me. I’m horrible at conversations yes, but if she truly cared, that wouldn’t stop her. And I feel like I’m always 3rd on her priority list after our kids (that I understand) and her family. She certainly respects all her family but certainly not me and also not my family. Someone said she is a monster. If you met her and were friends with her you would never get that impression and would think she is genuinely such a kind, giving person. I don’t think she’s a monster. She does all the laundry and gets things done around the house and gets all the bday and holiday gifts for everyone and basically lets me do what I want. But I am feeling more
and more hatred towards her. Maybe hatred is a tad strong. Whatever it is, it isn’t healthy. 
I’m angry at myself because maybe I should have divorced her. I’m also angry at myself because I still need to grow as a person. And that I feel like I cannot talk to anyone.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

It's never too late. You can always decide to go in another direction. You don't need her to have another affair for you to change your mind.

Maybe you didn't get the remorse and work from her that you needed because you didn't put a divorce in motion. Maybe try that route and see what the result is...


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Galabar01 said:


> It's never too late. You can always decide to go in another direction. You don't need her to have another affair for you to change your mind.
> 
> Maybe you didn't get the remorse and work from her that you needed because you didn't put a divorce in motion. Maybe try that route and see what the result is...


Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> There was a reason for me feeling guilty yesterday but I’m over that now. And really yesterday was the first time I’ve felt like that since I was able to get over my guilt several years ago. Today I’m feeling anger and frustration. I’m angry at her but also at myself.
> 
> My answer to this question would be divorce. And I always thought if something that horrible happened to me, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a divorce. But then it did happen to me. I don’t think I chose reconciliation because I needed my wife or couldn’t let her go. It was because I didn’t want to be away from my children even if it was only a few days a week. I also believe in second chances. And I also didn’t want to upset the status quo and felt my family and hers would be devastated and I didn’t want them going through that.
> I don’t think I ever got the full truth from her 8 years ago. Why would she offer all that up? But I am starting to come around to the fact that she may not be cheating only because she knows if I catch her again I’ll expose her to everyone. But to answer Chuck’s question, in my opinion she has no respect for me. And while I respect her as a mother and a person generally, I probably lost all respect for her as a wife some time ago. And that stems from fact she did NOT read the book I got her, plus that she never really seemed remorseful and lacked the desire to make things right and instead just tried to move on. Yeah she said she felt awful for what she did but her actions would indicate otherwise.
> ...


It’s called resentment. And it’s worse than hatred. I understand the feeling very well.

I understand the whole thing about second chances, but when a person doesn’t actually even try to deserve the second chance, they just think it should happen... it’s entitlement. Been there too.

The kid thing is hard. Having to face down not having your kids as much as you want to... it’s a big deal. But when I think about what my kids see modeled before them as a relationship, knowing that children of parents who have affairs often go on to have affairs themselves... I have to draw the line there. At some point my kids and what they see from their parents relationship became more important to me than anything. I don’t want them to end up like me, or like my WH. I want them to do better. Expect more. So I have to show them. 

What your wife did to you is disgusting. I wanted to throw up just reading about it. And then it just made me want to cry, imagining sleeping next to the person that did that every night for all these years. Sad.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

QuietRiot said:


> It’s called resentment. And it’s worse than hatred. I understand the feeling very well.
> 
> I understand the whole thing about second chances, but when a person doesn’t actually even try to deserve the second chance, they just think it should happen... it’s entitlement. Been there too.
> 
> ...


My kids know nothing of what happened. They probably don’t know anything is wrong either. And divorce now may be more difficult on them since they are older. Yes I definitely want my kids to be much better people than me and my wife. I don’t know that what they see from us now is impacting them negatively. I certainly hope they are not aware or are being impacted in a bad way by our relationship.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

DV2021 said:


> Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


Your first sentence is likely why you’re still there. Don’t threaten divorce — mean it if you say it. She doesn’t respect you now and she’s unlikely to in the future. Why? She sees no reason to. BTW, children pick up on far more than parents realize. They know when things seem off.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

When you gave her a second chance (that she didn’t deserve) you probably thought that she’d be so grateful that she’d work really hard on the marriage, etc. But that’s not how many cheaters act after they’re given the gift of reconciliation (and I speak from experience). She should have done anything and everything she possibly could to rebuild your marriage. And she still should be doing that. Ask yourself why that didn’t happen.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

She may not be cheating this time but that doesn’t mean she’s fully engaged in the marriage. It likely means she doesn’t want a divorce. It’s easy to think that all cheaters want to end their marriage but generally they don’t. They just want some fun and excitement on the side. She may still want that but she’s afraid you’ll divorce her if you catch her. That’s obviously not the same as being totally committed to the marriage.


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## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

DV2021 said:


> Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


Never threaten divorce. If she calls your bluff and you don't file you'll lose any respect she currently has. Or if she doesn't change her behavior and you don't pull the trigger you lose respect. It's very, very unfortunate but this scenario plays out with many if not nearly every infidelity story on here and other sites. 

WS doesn't think the BS has the balls to impose real consequences and gets more embolden in their wayward activities with complete disrespect and disregard. BS twists, turns, squirms, yells, pouts and pleads with hopes the WS can find the decency and compassion to miraculously reverse course and return to normal. 

I've read hundreds, if not thousands of stories and in 95% of the cases if not more the affair runs its course or continues for as long as the WS wishes for it to unless a significant intervention takes place of which being served with divorce docs is one of them. It's your will versus hers. The winner controls the narrative.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> My kids know nothing of what happened. They probably don’t know anything is wrong either. And divorce now may be more difficult on them since they are older. Yes I definitely want my kids to be much better people than me and my wife. I don’t know that what they see from us now is impacting them negatively. I certainly hope they are not aware or are being impacted in a bad way by our relationship.


You’ve said your communication is terrible. They see no evidence of that? How about the fact that she doesn’t treat you as a wife should and you have deep pain and resentment (rightly so), they just don’t know why. They see a mom who doesn’t respect their dad. The see two people who live as roommates and cohabitate, but they don’t see what you would yourself consider a healthy marriage. They may not know your wife betrayed you terribly, but I bet they can feel the effects. They know something is off. Even worse really if they think your dynamic is normal!

I still can feel the unease in my gut from witnessing my parents dysfunction.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

You have no hand.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021..... you have no one to turn to / talk to? What are we posters, "chopped liver?" LOL

Yes you need IC... but these boards are FULL of invaluable info and suggestions. DV.... I know the pain you are feeling.

I felt that same pain a bit over eight years ago. Pain is pain....

Now.... what about yourself are you not happy with? How others perceive you is not important at this time.

How do you see yourself? What would you wish to change?

Stick around here long enough and we can turn you into a DV 2.0 bad ass....if you're up for it


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Sounds to me as if you still have a lot of anger and resentment from the last time that was never dealth with. Did you have any MC back then? Maybe if you didnt now is the time. You may well need to be able to say things to her that you didnt back then and you would get the chance to say that. Plus you can talk about how you feel now about the way she treats you. You could see an IC before that. Dont jump straight to the divorce talk, try these things first, unless you find proof of an affair that is.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Your kids know the two of you hate each other. They’re not stupid, they see how you treat one another.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DV2021 said:


> My kids know nothing of what happened. They probably don’t know anything is wrong either.


Here's the problem -- they may not know things are wrong but do they know that things are RIGHT? Are you showing them GOOD examples of what marriage should be? Probably not.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

DV2021 said:


> Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


It doesn't sound she ever really felt remorse and frankly any road to RC should have been predicated on her telling the entire truth...this alone would tell her that i think we now need to divorce...that you have resented her not be truthful and open with you and that you think this RC is over


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

DV,

I read your old posts and it really seems like you rugswept the first affair and accepted the limited recovery your WW offered you. 

Did you ever even tell OMW? Did you get your money back that you paid OM for the work he did for your family?

The lack of consequences for your WW has helped make keep her a WW still?

Did your sex life go back to no sex life after the hysterical bonding ended?

I think you need to really recover.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

VAR and GPS tracking of her phone has not revealed any suspicious activity after about a week of monitoring. Cellphone logs show nothing yet either except one unfamiliar phone number has popped up on the text log for a 2nd time. Probably nothing but I still cannot get her phone for an extended period. I’m starting to think now she very well may not be cheating. If she isn’t, then I’m struggling to determine my next course of action. However could she have been cheating in the recent or not so recent past? I’ll never know. 

I am second guessing everything since attempting (poorly) to reconcile which now is so much more obvious to me based on all your feedback and doing some recollecting. I think I wanted to see how much effort, etc she would put into it and now it’s quite obvious she gave little to no effort other than possibly just not cheating again. Now I’m wondering if I’ve wasted the last 8 years my life in this marriage. I’ve been very apathetic lately, not sure if that is because of all this, or because of the current state of things with Covid-19, etc. or maybe because I cannot stand my job at the moment. Feel like I have little to look forward to and just stuck in a major rut.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

perhaps now is the time to have a come to jesus meeting with her and basically tell her you are not happy with this reconcile and you are seriously questioning this marriage, that you are miserable and you are ready to cut your losses...i think being frank with her will either have her agree and you both part ways or she will fight to keep this marriage.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

DV2021 said:


> VAR and GPS tracking of her phone has not revealed any suspicious activity after about a week of monitoring. Cellphone logs show nothing yet either except one unfamiliar phone number has popped up on the text log for a 2nd time. Probably nothing but I still cannot get her phone for an extended period. I’m starting to think now she very well may not be cheating. If she isn’t, then I’m struggling to determine my next course of action. However could she have been cheating in the recent or not so recent past? I’ll never know.
> 
> I am second guessing everything since attempting (poorly) to reconcile which now is so much more obvious to me based on all your feedback and doing some recollecting. I think I wanted to see how much effort, etc she would put into it and now it’s quite obvious she gave little to no effort other than possibly just not cheating again. Now I’m wondering if I’ve wasted the last 8 years my life in this marriage. I’ve been very apathetic lately, not sure if that is because of all this, or because of the current state of things with Covid-19, etc. or maybe because I cannot stand my job at the moment. Feel like I have little to look forward to and just stuck in a major rut.


One small thing you can try -- BREAK that rut. Try something new. Learn a language or musical instrument, learn start hiking or biking, Mongolian Throat singing, or ...., etc.. Do something YOU always wanted to try to do and devote time to that. It may also help you get some space from your wife and give you time to think about what YOU want to do.

Also, apathy -- you MAY be in the beginning stages of depression -- maybe a trip to the Dr?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Do I feel like this because my marriage? Or is the rut I’m in impacting my marriage?


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

I would cut my losses and D. Life is too short to constantly worry about your W betraying you, especially if she did it before. Panic attacks would be a constant threat, which isn't healthy.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

And it likely has impacted how you feel, even if only subconsciously.


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## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

DV2021 said:


> Do I feel like this because my marriage? Or is the rut I’m in impacting my marriage?


Your wife cheating in addition to her refusal to be a safe and trustworthy partner in reconciliation; it seems your actual marriage has been dead for a long time. It’s up to you when to have the funeral. She’s proven she will never treat you the way you want to be treated. I’m sorry that you are in this position. 

Maybe you can just go see a lawyer and find out what your life might look like post divorce with the legalities and financial aspect of it. Think over what it might be like as a single person and see if it’s something that you feel is the right move for you. You know what staying feels like. So think about what not staying feels like.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

DV2021 said:


> There was a reason for me feeling guilty yesterday but I’m over that now. And really yesterday was the first time I’ve felt like that since I was able to get over my guilt several years ago. Today I’m feeling anger and frustration. I’m angry at her but also at myself.
> 
> My answer to this question would be divorce. And I always thought if something that horrible happened to me, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a divorce. But then it did happen to me. I don’t think I chose reconciliation because I needed my wife or couldn’t let her go. It was because I didn’t want to be away from my children even if it was only a few days a week. I also believe in second chances. And I also didn’t want to upset the status quo and felt my family and hers would be devastated and I didn’t want them going through that.
> I don’t think I ever got the full truth from her 8 years ago. Why would she offer all that up? But I am starting to come around to the fact that she may not be cheating only because she knows if I catch her again I’ll expose her to everyone. But to answer Chuck’s question, in my opinion she has no respect for me. And while I respect her as a mother and a person generally, I probably lost all respect for her as a wife some time ago. And that stems from fact she did NOT read the book I got her, plus that she never really seemed remorseful and lacked the desire to make things right and instead just tried to move on. Yeah she said she felt awful for what she did but her actions would indicate otherwise.
> ...


You are not mad at your wife nearly as much as you are at yourself...because you are allowing fear to make you tolerate the intolerable. YOU. ARE. ALLOWING. IT.

It cannot happen without your complicity. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

UPDATE
Obviously things aren’t good if I’m back here again. I never found evidence of further infidelity. I stopped using the VAR after a few weeks. Never found anything on her phone either but never was able to do a deep search.

All that is irrelevant as the relationship with my wife over the last few months has completely deteriorated. We are roommates at beat. What’s worse, I’ve come to almost despise my wife, I can’t even look at her. It could very well be my attitude that has completely turned her away from me, which then only feeds my resentment even more because I just think she doesn’t care about me.
We have not spoken about our relationship at all since I ranted at her some time ago. It can’t be healthy or normal to avoid relationship discussions with your spouse, right?

I resent the fact she is so close to her family and talks to her mom and sister multiple times per day yet cannot talk to me at all.

Right now I am struggling to find a reason to keep this marriage going, other than the fear and shame of getting divorced. I also fear not being around my children every day and how they will handle a divorce. If we were to divorce I would be the loser and be alone (I have a very small family and only a few close friends, most of them aren’t local). Considering how far I’ve sunk to this point, I fear going through a divorce will only bring me even lower. I also worry about how a divorce could affect my mom who is still dealing with the death of my dad and has been on edge since Covid19 came into our lives. I feel like divorce would reveal me as a failure as no one else in my immediate family has been divorced.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

File........ why the F'k stay?


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Do I feel like this because my marriage? Or is the rut I’m in impacting my marriage?


You are allowing yourself to be dictated to by your environment. 
That's not how it should be. 
You should decide for yourself, regardless of what is going on around you.


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## SRCSRC (Nov 28, 2020)

No one likes getting a divorce but your marriage sounds absolutely dead. She probably cheated again but you were unable to find conclusive evidence. Your gut tells you otherwise. It's time to have one last serious talk with your WW. If she is on the same page as you, and it sounds as if she is, it's time to move on. But first, try and have a heart-to-heart talk as free of emotion as possible. If there truly is nothing left to work with, move on. You tried. Work for 50/50 physical custody of the children. It's not optimal but it beats living the way you describe your marriage by lightyears.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Just like normal you will continue to do nothing and only complain. You are your own problem.


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## Tested_by_stress (Apr 1, 2021)

sounds like nothing was resolved 8 years ago and now the chickens have come home to roost. I'd suggest counceling as a last ditch effort. If she balks at counceling ,file for D.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Why are you projecting ? You noted yourself that you are unhappy, that you despise her, so why spend another a year, another month, another week with someone like that. I would rather be alone with the opportunity for a brighter future than to submit to the darkness of the present. You are never a loser when you gain self respect.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

At this point you would be doing her a favor as well. She is probably just as miserable.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Counselling might be of assistance.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

File and expose her affair to her family. Client had kept it quiet til he couldn’t. He blindsided her by filing and then her elderly mother called her and asked why she had destroyed her marriage. Her excuses were shot down one after another. Her mother told her that she would not be supported by her family. As a consequence she ran out of money while defending the D. She was dead lucky that my guy showed mercy.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

All these reasons to stay and none are because you love your wife. She certainly doesn’t love you. You should either start talking to her abd try to fix it or divorce. I’d divorce. She’s a cheater who guards her phone and shows no interest in you. You’re scared fo go because it’s hard to find someone….. it’s life. No guarantees. What you have is guaranteed to be bad though. Good luck. I assure you, being single isn’t nearly as bad as what you have now.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Why stay in a sexless marriage with an unrepentant WW? I would not be the slightest bit surprised if she’s still in an affair. It will suck to become a part time dad but you can make sure that your time with them is quality time. As for being alone; how is that different than living with a wife whose indifferent to you? The life your living has got to not only sick but is that what you want to model to your kids? 

Get busy with improving yourself. Nothing will improve until you start moving to make changes. Don’t stay in limbo until your WW dumps you. It is way better to be proactive of your destiny than for you to be in reaction mode to someone else’s actions.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

DV2021 said:


> Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


Manipulation doesn’t work long term.

Betrayed spouse syndrome: try and make it your fault. That way you can fix it. Faulty thinking but a lot do it.
Look for excuses to stay so you don’t have to make a decision., etc.

You are the only one that can make yourself a chump and keep yourself in limbo
If she’s cheating again that’s a serial cheater. They never stop.
Confrontation is BS. That won’t stop her long. She knows what she’s doing. You don’t have to confront her


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

DV2021 said:


> VAR and GPS tracking of her phone has not revealed any suspicious activity after about a week of monitoring. Cellphone logs show nothing yet either except one unfamiliar phone number has popped up on the text log for a 2nd time. Probably nothing but I still cannot get her phone for an extended period. I’m starting to think now she very well may not be cheating. If she isn’t, then I’m struggling to determine my next course of action. However could she have been cheating in the recent or not so recent past? I’ll never know.
> 
> I am second guessing everything since attempting (poorly) to reconcile which now is so much more obvious to me based on all your feedback and doing some recollecting. I think I wanted to see how much effort, etc she would put into it and now it’s quite obvious she gave little to no effort other than possibly just not cheating again. Now I’m wondering if I’ve wasted the last 8 years my life in this marriage. I’ve been very apathetic lately, not sure if that is because of all this, or because of the current state of things with Covid-19, etc. or maybe because I cannot stand my job at the moment. Feel like I have little to look forward to and just stuck in a major rut.


R from what I’ve seen is mainly rugsweeping. Reconciliation is extremely hard work. 
As you’ve seen it causes longterm heartburn.


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## Trident (May 23, 2018)

Your given reasons for not divorcing are understandable.

So accept that you and her will live as housemates in an indefinite cold war and plan accordingly.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

DV2021 said:


> I also fear not being around my children every day and *how they will handle a divorce*. If we were to divorce *I would be the loser and be alone* (I have a very small family and only a few close friends, most of them aren’t local).


So you think your kids don't pick up on the fact that you and your wife have a dead marriage? I honestly doubt they'd have a big problem handling a divorce between two parents who don't even like one another. You are staying for YOU and nobody else. And please tell me what is so damn bad about being alone. Because from where I'm sitting, it sounds like all you have is a big, fat nothing. You ARE alone!


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## SnowToArmPits (Jan 2, 2016)

Hi OP, sorry your marriage is in a bad way. I understand why you would want to end the marriage, and you've stated you wanted to reconcile because of your kids and you didn't want upheaval in your life.

Given the facts that 1) you're living as room mates 2) you despise your wife 3) she has cheated on you with another man (men?) .... why does your wife want to stay in the marriage? Guilt? The kids? For $$$?


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

DV2021.....you are saying the exact same things that you said, eight years ago. I know that was

soon after her A. Now you're stuck again. I know you are miserable, I can tell it in your posts.

I think it's past time for MC, but you seriously need some deep IC. You have yourself tied to a 

water heater but knowing the key is an arm's length away. Did you read any of the books

I recommended for you on post #111? If you stuck around on these boards, we all could have

guided you in a better direction than what you are now in. Stick around this time.... granted I don't

agree with what everyone will advise you to do, but the ones I would agree with is 90+%.

This board helped me a LOT when I dealt with my D in late 2012-early 2013 and on how to deal 

with my late mother when she had dementia and was a completely different person.

So pull up a chair...... be glad to recommend threads for you to read that are similar to your story.

But get some serious IC going...... you have built so many walls around you, you have 

stripped yourself of your identity. Let's get that back, pronto!


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## Chaparralredux (Apr 21, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> UPDATE
> Obviously things aren’t good if I’m back here again. I never found evidence of further infidelity. I stopped using the VAR after a few weeks. Never found anything on her phone either but never was able to do a deep search.
> 
> All that is irrelevant as the relationship with my wife over the last few months has completely deteriorated. We are roommates at beat. What’s worse, I’ve come to almost despise my wife, I can’t even look at her. It could very well be my attitude that has completely turned her away from me, which then only feeds my resentment even more because I just think she doesn’t care about me.
> ...


What have you done to get out of your rut? If she doesn’t talk to you ignore her. Go out, make new friends, get in shape for real, new hobbies. You turned yourself into a ghost in your house. Whether or not you stay or go you need to fix yourself. From your discription, cheating or not you sound like you’ve made yourself exceedingly unattractive. You need to fix that first.


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Let me just ask this, was it wrong to sit back and see how much effort she would put towards reconciliation? Maybe it was the right thing to do given the fact it revealed that she basically did nothing? Or should I have spearheaded the effort and forced her to do all the necessary steps?

Obviously her and I need to have a serious talk. But again, feeling like I am mostly to blame. Apparently I’ve made myself exceedingly unattractive so why would my wife want anything to do with me?


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Chaparralredux said:


> What have you done to get out of your rut? If she doesn’t talk to you ignore her. Go out, make new friends, get in shape for real, new hobbies. You turned yourself into a ghost in your house. Whether or not you stay or go you need to fix yourself. From your discription, cheating or not you sound like you’ve made yourself exceedingly unattractive. You need to fix that first.


Well just being summer helped me a little. We took a couple of family vacations. Now I’m back in my rut. I was in the best shape of my adult life over the past five years until this fall/winter. I remember telling her that she never really recognized how I got in shape and lost significant weight, but she threw that back at me because I didn’t acknowledge her training and running in 10k race. 

I’m a total introvert so going out isn’t really my thing. I tend to stay close only with a small group of my good friends, some of whom aren’t local. And I do ignore her. I can barely get myself to say hi to her when she walks in the house.


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## jonty30 (Oct 23, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Well just being summer helped me a little. We took a couple of family vacations. Now I’m back in my rut. I was in the best shape of my adult life over the past five years until this fall/winter. I remember telling her that she never really recognized how I got in shape and lost significant weight, but she threw that back at me because I didn’t acknowledge her training and running in 10k race.
> 
> I’m a total introvert so going out isn’t really my thing. I tend to stay close only with a small group of my good friends, some of whom aren’t local. And I do ignore her. I can barely get myself to say hi to her when she walks in the house.


You may be an introvert, but you can still do new things.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Let me just ask this, was it wrong to sit back and see how much effort she would put towards reconciliation? Maybe it was the right thing to do given the fact it revealed that she basically did nothing? Or should I have spearheaded the effort and forced her to do all the necessary steps?
> 
> Obviously her and I need to have a *serious talk.* But again, feeling like I am mostly to blame. Apparently I’ve made myself exceedingly unattractive so why would my wife want anything to do with me?


Why would you bother talking with a serial cheater (liar) who doesn't respect you? You are staying in a prison of your own making. For eight damn years?!? You will never get those years back!. You allowed her to steal them from you!

If you talk to a lot of men on here who dumped their wayward, you won't find *one* who regreted doing so. Their only regret is waiting more than one millisecond to do so. One guy who divorced after 12 years of no sex was amazed at the women he dated afterward, and ecstatic with his next wife. Your wife wants to live the single life, you might as well divorce her, let her live it, and live single for yourself.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

DV2021 said:


> Right now I am struggling to find a reason to keep this marriage going, *other than the fear and shame of getting divorced. *


That's a cowardly behavior, and you are where you are to no one's fault other than your own. Why do you give a **** to what anyone in this world might think about you divorcing? It only should matter what is best for you from your point of view in your actual situation.

So far you're living in the world of a mouse, cowering, running away from confrontation and making decisions, making all sort of excuses to do nothing.

Teaching your children how a man that has not convictions, no self respect, and no backbone lives. Teaching them how to cowardly behave when confronted with problems. Do you think for a moment that they're not perceiving and absorbing what's going on with their parents? If you think that they don't, then you're worse than a fool, unless they're like under 4 years of age.
YOU, and not one else is keeping you where you are in the situation in which you are. Enjoy it


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## DV2021 (Apr 12, 2021)

Rus47 said:


> Why would you bother talking with a serial cheater (liar) who doesn't respect you? You are staying in a prison of your own making. For eight damn years?!? You will never get those years back!. You allowed her to steal them from you!


I can’t make perhaps the most important decision of my adult life without at least hearing her out. And at least I’ll get her perspective. Maybe my view of things is skewed by my own prejudices. And at least I can get some things off my chest.

Btw, I have no evidence that she is a serial cheater. Not saying she isn’t, just stating I don’t have proof to support that claim


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Chuck71 said:


> Let me see your phone right now or I will see a lawyer at 8:00 AM tomorrow. And mean it





DV2021 said:


> I can’t make perhaps the most important decision of my adult life without at least hearing her out. And at least I’ll get her perspective. Maybe my view of things is skewed by my own prejudices. And at least I can get some things off my chest.
> 
> Btw, I have no evidence that she is a serial cheater. Not saying she isn’t, just stating I don’t have proof to support that claim


What Chuck71 said. That's all you have to do. If she refuses to hand you the phone you have your answer (no need to try to find evidence). it's that simple but you seem to lack the balls to do it. You will keep yourself in this limbo. That's your destiny (of your own making) because of your desire to find the smoking gun (which you may never find).

let's say that you ask and she gives you the phone, and you find nothing. All you have to do is say what you have been perceiving to make you ask for the phone. it's that simple. She gets upset (and she will), then tell that that's the price to pay for her suspicious behavior based on her previous betrayal (s).


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

DV2021 said:


> I can’t make perhaps the most important decision of my adult life without at least hearing her out. And at least I’ll get her perspective. Maybe my view of things is skewed by my own prejudices. And at least I can get some things off my chest.
> 
> Btw, I have no evidence that she is a serial cheater. Not saying she isn’t, just stating I don’t have proof to support that claim


Have you had a heart to heart with her about your marital concerns? Have you discussed how abandoned you feel because she's always chatting with her family and not you?

Introverts sometimes are more comfortable on a computer talking to strangers than they are having a serious talk with a real person. Maybe you just need to really sit her down and she has no clue just how serious this situation is.


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## Vaughan (Aug 18, 2021)

Sorry, that you are here is not a good sign.


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## Vaughan (Aug 18, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> I always thought if something that horrible happened to me, I wouldn’t hesitate to get a divorce. But then it did happen to me.


Good grief this sounds just like me years ago. I really hope you get over your fear and divorce. As many others have said, my only regret is not doing it sooner.


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Divorce and total life upheaval seriously scare me. Maybe that’s another factor. Threatening D may bring about some remorse but will she ever respect me again?


Doesn't continuing to live with a cheater day after day, month after month, year after year and decade after decade seriously scare you?

This isn't her first rodeo.

I didn't read your first post, but it doesn't seem like the necessary steps were taken when the two of you reconciled, because if they were, she wouldn't be secretive right now. She'd be an open book knowing what she did to you the last time.

She's doing this because she can and to this point you've not done anything about it.

You feel guilty for things you've not done, the way you've been and I get it, you've made mistakes.

Who hasn't? Life is difficult, we all make mistakes. Marriage is difficult. No, you haven't been perfect (I haven't either) and neither has your wife.

So, the marriage issues are BOTH of your fault.

Her cheating is 100% on you.

You haven't gone and cheated on her even though she hasn't been perfect yet that's what she's done to you.

Her current actions in the here and now don't show remorse for what she did to you all those years ago.

Both of you are in this boat now because things weren't dealt with properly from her last time cheating.


Look, I'm not saying you can't try to reconcile even though you may think that's what I'm getting at.

What I am getting at is that BOTH of you really need to work on things, not sweep them under the rug.

It's seems like your willing to sweep things under the rug because you're afraid of your life being turned upside down and divorcing.

Either really work on reconciling and that will take both of you, or divorce.

Don't rug sweep and remain in the marriage out of fear what being divorced is like.

I'd love for you to both work things out and remain together.

I'd hate for the two of you to remain together with all of your current issues remaining in place. If that's the case, you'll be on this site again a few years from now making another post about her cheating.

Reconciling takes two. What if she doesn't want to? Will you just stay married to her while not really dealing with things properly?


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## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

DV2021 said:


> Her cheating is 100% on you.


I'm sorry, a huge typo on my end.

Her cheating is 100% on her. NOT you.

I apologize for that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DV2021 said:


> Do I feel like this because my marriage? Or is the rut I’m in impacting my marriage?


It is _The State of your Affairs_, you are fretting over. 

This mental affair of yours has seemingly made her affair reappear.

I too, sense your depression. 
It is not only her, it is you that is making this dysfunctional marriage, worse.

Your wife can surely feel this too.

It will not inspire her to shine in your eyes.

You need individual counselling.


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