# Separated long distance, should I date?



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I know every case is unique and depends upon situations and the personalities and feelings of those involved. I have read this forum with interest, but have not found anything specific to my situation. I have been married over 10 years and we were both very happy up until about 3 ½ years ago. The sexual relationship stopped at that time and we have basically been living a “sexless marriage”. There were a couple of reasons for this which I realize now – trying to have a baby and failing, my concentration on career and neglecting her unintentionally. Last year my wife travelled to her native country where most of her family lives. We spent a total of 6 months apart last year and have currently been apart for 4 months and will likely be apart for a total of 9 months in all this year. One of the things my wife said was she needed time apart and to find herself as she was depressed. She wants to get better, and then work on our marriage. Considering all of these issues, I have tried to be very patient with hopes she will return and we can repair our marriage, to get back to where we were before. However, it has been difficult being alone and not having sex for close to four years. It is like my basic psychological and sexual needs are starving. In many people’s minds and ours we are in a separation, due to no sex, being physically apart, and need of my wife to find herself. The reason I am writing is I have met someone that seems really compatible with me, very similar interests and is drop dead gorgeous. I have not asked her on a date but am reasonably confident she would accept as we hit it off when we met. I am in a dilemma to start something with this new woman or hold out on the hopes that in 6 months I can save my marriage. How I feel is I love my wife, but am very uncertain about being successful reviving the romance. My wife has said she wants to try again. By the way we have no children. The woman of interest here where I live is going through a divorce that is not yet final. I feel very tempted to start dating this new woman, but should I? My concern is my wife and I have evolved to a platonic love and I am looking for more than that. I am uncertain if we can revive the romance. Of course, the new woman is very attractive. Should I resist the animal instinct and suppress the evolutionary force that has gotten men into trouble before? My life experience has taught me that one should not hesitate in making decisions or waiting. If I wait and try to repair my marriage and it fails, this “ideal woman” may be no longer available and the opportunity lost. On the other hand, I may try to be friends with the woman, see if I can repair my marriage and if fails, try to date her then when her divorce is settled and when she may be freer emotionally. What should I do? Thanks in advance for any feedback.


----------



## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

No you should not date others while you are still legally married.
Your wife wants to work on the marriage.


----------



## Heartbroken84 (Feb 2, 2014)

Difficult situation but if you both want to work on the marriage I would say dating other people is a big no.

Do you still talk regular? Laugh? Connect etc?


----------



## Thjor (Feb 18, 2014)

i say no to dating as well. You need to resolve your marriage first. Don't get another person involved until you sort this out. You should give your marriage everything, that way if it does end in divorce you can walk away knowing you tried everything.


----------



## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Figure out what you are going to do about your marriage: work on it or end it. Only then will you know if you should date. A decision now to date is essentially a decision to end your marriage. Perhaps that's the right decision, but if so, communicate it to your wife so she has the same options.


----------



## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

You are frustrated after years of neglect, of course this new woman is "ideal". She is paying attention to you.

Personally I made it a rule not to date people who were "separated". They are not done with their marriage (legally or emotionally) and it just causes a lot of turmoil. 

Your best bet is to figure out for yourself if your marriage is worth saving. If it is, look at yourself and make positive changes to you that will help with your relationship. If your marriage is over, start the divorce process and finish it before you go chasing someone else around.


----------



## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Two things:

a) You should not date or talk with this new woman if you are still married.

b) I think life is giving you a heads up why people generally don't live in 4-year long sexless marriages where their spouse is in another country for the majority of the time. I would think that, if your wife wanted to work on things, a good start would be to move back home.

In other words, use this opportunity to evaluate your marriage. It is not a "which do I choose" type issue.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it was very helpful. I did try to summarize everything in my first post. Yes, this is true the woman that lives nearby and paying attention looks good. I feel guilty. I also agree that 4 year sexless marriage is not usual but our earlier years were very strong, and we had wanted to have a new beginning. But this is not possible living far apart. I have this extreme patience, but when do you say it is over? Hard to let go. Maybe one more try when she comes back.


----------



## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

I admire you Brother, patience is a virtue, and you obviously have a lot. Do what your heart tells you.

Kev


----------



## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Kevinb said:


> I admire you Brother, patience is a virtue, and you obviously have a lot. Do what your heart tells you.
> 
> Kev


Patience:

A virtue if you're on the right road.

If you're on the wrong road, it's a waste of time.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I have an update and need more advice please. I read through all of the replies above from back in February and I must say everyone was right, I agree. If you are married, give 100% to the marriage and the other women should be ignored. That was good advice.

OK, now I have an update. After more than 8 months my wife returned briefly for a vacation together. On that vacation, we had a good time, had fun, held hands, some kissing but no sex at all. It was the same as before. There was one night where it may have happened but did not. Then the rest of the nights, my wife would quickly go to sleep or turn so I could not initiate anything. It was as if she did not want sex. I am so frustrated. However, I thought being apart for 8 months and being together only a few months over the course of 2 years would take time for the romance to return. We then spoke of her returning home at the end of the year. So I thought, OK, we need to be together to rekindle our romance and since we both love each other, it will come back. So after the vacation she returned to her native country.

Now I am very upset that I discovered quite unintentionally that she had opened a profile on a dating web site in her country weeks after she had returned from our vacation. I paid so much money for that vacation and my thoughts that we both want to begin again at the end of year, I am getting feelings of hopelessness and sadness. I also feel confused as we do chat across the internet and have been affectionate. Why would she actively seek men when she is married to me and we had agreed to try to start again? 

I also learned that she told a friend that on our vacation she said that she could not have a physical relationship with me and she is frightened by that. I don't understand what is going on, and I feel soon I may need therapy. Is it worth saving our marriage? She also told this friend that she misses our house and life here in USA and that is what holds here to the marriage and not me. What I want.... I want to revive the marriage to rekindle what we had the first 6 years, I do not want to give up, but on other hand, I do not want a sexless marriage living as friends. I wanted to give it one last try at end of year, give it all 100%, but I feel stabbed in back by the dating site and what she told her friend. 

I hope you all can give me some tips, it is so complicated. Help please. 

Best Regards,


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You got the answer, twice. You did not date other women but she began to look for other men. She may have had sex with them. You got in bed with her after years of drought and her vagina was still dry.

Your marriage is over.

There is not need to put off dating. Tell her it is over. Start living again. if she rushes back to hop in the sack, you know there is soimething wrong with her.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Yes, and during our separation or long distance relationship (whatever you want to call it), I never actively put a profile on a dating site or went clubbing looking for it. The woman I mentioned in original post I met just going about my daily life. 

But again, it is very confusing. My wife acts jealous and possessive of me and yet is doing this and staying away. She said she wanted to come back to start again, but now I am not sure.

Another interesting thing to note about the jealousy thing. When we were on the vacation she wanted to rest and I just went for a drink at the hotel bar, bartender happened to be a woman and I was being friendly. I am extrovert and like talking t to people, women, men whatever. Well, my wife came out and said nothing but on another day when I wanted to do something she said she was tired and wanted to rest and then said "you can go to the bar and talk with the women" in a jealous way. I didn't, but just went swimming. Later also, we were both at the pool and the woman I talked with who worked at hotel was there. I didn't realize at time, but my wife suddenly asked to hold hands (we were sitting on chairs by pool). I did and then saw this woman walk by. It was as if my wife was saying to the other woman..... "hands off my husband". So with all of that, why does it appear she wants me as a husband, but no sex and she is off looking for men. This seems messed up. Like I said I am serious about trying again at end of year, but again as you said I don't want to waste my time and extend the pain. 

Thanks again, and if anyone has any advice for me, I really appreciate.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

How about the bigger questions, like what did she say when you confronted her about the dating site profile, or where she sees your non-relationship marriage heading, or what she expects and wants from you, and/or why you should forgive her for openly and outwardly looking for other men?

This is barely a relationship, much less a marriage. She wants to have her cake wnd eat it too. Someone posted sbove saying they admired you for your patience... I pity you for being duped.

But as to what to do? Don't date until you put your issue on the tabke with your wife and tell her exactly where your mind is, snd make a decision on whether you are going to work on the marriage -- together -- or actually, legally separate. The wait is over, 4 years is plenty of time to make up one's mind.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I actually have not confronted here on the dating site as far as I know if just happened a few days ago after we returned from vacation and she returned to her native country. 

I spoke with her today in chat and I attempted to reconfirm our plan to begin again, fresh start at year end and she did confirm and said she loves me and wants to start again. I also mentioned getting our romantic and sexual relationship back. To me this is the defect of the marriage, at least from my side. Her answer to that is that we can bring it back and it will happen naturally. This all sounds great, but I am not understanding the dating site at all. Having cake and eating too may sound right, but why is she being so affectionate and loving (words) and not mean them, and be on the dating site?


----------



## Arendt (Mar 25, 2013)

Long Walk seems to have given some good views: its over. Just divorce and move on. You have your answer in a hundred ways. What more do you need?


----------



## firebelly1 (Jul 9, 2013)

She is hedging her bets. She doesn't want to leave her LIFE but she wants to leave YOU. I would advise that you confront her about the dating site but I don't think she's going to be honest with you about her feelings around it.

Really I think you need to tell her that if she's really interested in saving the marriage she will come home and stay there and the two of you will go to counselling. You can't do this long-distance. And sex needs to be intentional on both your parts i.e. it doesn't work for you to wait until it magically happens.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

firebelly1 said:


> She is hedging her bets. She doesn't want to leave her LIFE but she wants to leave YOU. I would advise that you confront her about the dating site but I don't think she's going to be honest with you about her feelings around it.
> 
> Really I think you need to tell her that if she's really interested in saving the marriage she will come home and stay there and the two of you will go to counselling. You can't do this long-distance. And sex needs to be intentional on both your parts i.e. it doesn't work for you to wait until it magically happens.


I understand what you say that she doesn't want to leave her life. She had told her friend a few weeks ago that our home holds her not me. So yes, that sounds right. But why would she say that she "love me more than anything" and yet the same day is on the dating website messaging other men? I feel sick. 

About confronting about the web site, I am not sure how to go about doing it. But it is confusing to hear her talk to me and then her actions on the site. Do some people just want to have a fling and still love their spouse? 

Yes I agree about the sex but she used the word natural and not magical. I myself have senses that the unwillingness to have sex is from her side for quite sometime. Again, she said to that friend weeks ago she could not do it with me. Don't understand why. 

Thanks again everyone for your help, keep the comments coming, it is helping me sort it through.


----------



## SawbladeLily (Oct 26, 2013)

My advice comes from some personal experience that in some ways sounds similar to your situation. If my STBXH and I could have talked more openly and honestly, we would probably not be getting divorced. I truly love him still, and loved him with all my heart since we met 22 years ago, but we fell into a sexless marriage for a couple years and now he has another (quite new) woman and I'm sad beyond belief about that. 

BUT... I also don't want to be married the way it was. I would LOVE to have the first several years back, and feel secure and trust. I"m mourning the loss of my family. If I could have 100% guarantee that I could have my first time with him back, I would do it in a heartbeat from today on. But that has past. We both can claim responsibility in that too. 

After reading the recent accounts of your vacation, I can't help but wonder some things and see some similarities in what we went through. We are from two different countries and because his job has him travel, we have spent more nights apart than together our entire marriage. We had a lot of crap happen that never should have, but there was something missing, and the communication about that was not good.... or non-existant. 

The main NUMBER 1 thing you HAVE to do if you want to try to save your marriage at all is TALK to her and figure out what you both are thinking. WHY did you lapse into a sexless marriage. If you don't figure that out, it's not just going to fix itself and happen naturally. Or it will just happen all over again if you don't know how to prevent it. 

Do you express your feelings for her to her verbally and openly? She with you? Do you let her know that you really love her and want to be married? You also have to confront her about that dating website she's signed up on. And you have to find out if she really loves you or does she just love the country and not want to give up that lifestyle. Talk, talk, talk. You shouldn't and can't guess what is going on inside her head, nor should she have to guess about your mindset either. My husband cannot talk, and still to this day cannot talk to me about much even though there is nothing left to lose. I like to get issues out and will stew on things if I get one word answers. Then I don't trust. He doesn't talk to anyone much and it's a friggin nightmare to get anything out of him. In some ways, it's a HUGE relief for me to know there is another woman and to be talking about divorce, because the wait and worry about it are over. For years I've dreaded it, so it's odd because now that it's here, I wish I'd done it sooner and moved on with my life because that worry and not really knowing what was going on inside his head was killing me! I'm mourning the loss of my family and seeing what it's doing to my kids, but at the same time, I'm finally free of that worry and stress. I just wish he could have been more OPEN and been more loving and made me feel special, like I was his world. He was my world, but after a while, I couldn't give all to him because I started to wall off and steel myself against pain and heartache. (He was unfaithful early on in the marriage and he never really made me sure that it wouldn't happen again... so I didn't really trust.) That's no way to live and have a marriage. I'm convinced to this day if we had gone to counseling and gotten help with that communication piece, we'd still be happily married. We do still love each other and even say so to each other, but we didn't make each other happy anymore. And then he chose another to make him happy rather than try to work it out with me. Sad ending.

So talk and talk, and then talk some more. Get counseling if you can.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you SawbladeLily, that was very informative and helpful. I think I know the majority of the reasons we evolved into a sexless marriage (which went to a slow death before stopping completely.) My work and school studies consumed too much of my time and she often went to bed alone and I later. I talked to here about she needs to be my #1 and she hears me. We also lapsed into too much routine with lack of spontaneity She also became depressed about her job, the place we lived and she entered therapy. Eventually she decided to go back to her native country and she entered therapy there. She said she needed time to work our her issues. But we have been talking much and the vacation was very nice, but for some reason we cannot get the sex going. I am willing, but I sense she is hesitant and not responsive to any advances. I believe relationship is two people, but from the sex side it is all her or mostly her in my opinion. I have been patient, and we have talked several times and that she will return after the year is out to start again. All the words sound right, it sounds like from her heart, but this dating web site baffles me. So her words do not match her actions. I want to try again, but it takes two people 100% committed to give all. Something you said also about your relationship strikes me too, that you need to feel the center of your spouse's universe, that they are #1. Well, it is impossible for me to provide those emotional feelings to my wife if we are separated by thousands of miles living apart. No way is that going to work and I believe I have been patient far too long. It is time for her to come home and we make the effort. I'm not saying force something, but work on it. The dating web site is self-defeating to that purpose. And I do not want to stay in a sexless marriage. I don't want to say it exactly like that to her, don't want to give us pressure, but if this cannot be fixed rather soon we have to get divorced. I don't want to waste my time and my life waiting for something that never comes. It is such a shame as the early years were very good.


----------



## SawbladeLily (Oct 26, 2013)

I agree with you completely about needing to be together or it's not going to work. I now wonder if her depression and indecision is really being dealt with properly. Counseling, yes, but has your wife had some medical attention? Depression is no small thing and it can totally turn someone's life upside down. Even if it's seemingly mild. I know. I went through a sort of depression, and mine as very much hormonally related which developed into chronic panic disorder. But once the root of that was figured out and dealt with properly (and simply), a lot of pieces fell into place and I could put myself back together. The counseling was good and a validation, but didn't really help solve much because there was a biological cause. Something to consider, but of course, she's in another country and not at home, so hard to help with that. But I do know, it's hard to make your spouse happy when you are not happy with yourself. And it all feeds off itself like a downward spiral.

But that dating site thing... THAT is something that I would be confronting. That in my book is contrary to wanting to work things out.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

SawbladeLady,

She preferred just to do the therapy for depression. She had taken medication too a few years ago, but hated it and it made her feel strange. 

Since she is long distance in another country, how do you recommend I confront? Text message, over the phone, facetime? This will be unpleasant. She will be surprised I know and she may get flustered. We have communicated all these ways, but which is best for this type of confrontation?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Divorce.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> SawbladeLady,
> 
> She preferred just to do the therapy for depression. She had taken medication too a few years ago, but hated it and it made her feel strange.
> 
> Since she is long distance in another country, *how do you recommend I confront?* Text message, over the phone, facetime? This will be unpleasant. She will be surprised I know and she may get flustered. We have communicated all these ways, but which is best for this type of confrontation?


Divorce papers would probably work pretty well.


----------



## SawbladeLily (Oct 26, 2013)

Indeed a tough one. You can't do text or email because you have to have the face to face contact, and be able to read body language, etc. 

When my husband was first unfaithful but only saying he wasn't sure if he loved me anymore without admitting the rest, I went in P.I. mode and ferreted out all the who and what. I didn't confront him with it right away though, because he and I both were on the fence with what we were feeling. That all changed when OW called me at home hoping to shock me and hoping by telling me I would throw him out (then she could have him... he had just told her he was staying with his family). I wasn't going to put up with any of that kind of sh**. That's when I needed to confront him and make him fess up and put all the cards on the table. But I did not do even telephone, but needed face to face time. He was working about 13 hours away from home (home every other weekend at the time) and I didn't want to wait for the weekend even. I had my sister come and stay with the kids and I got in the car to drive to him. I showed up unannounced and said "we need to talk... your girlfriend called the house and I can't have that around the kids". 
That certainly opened up all the cards and that evening was probably the most open and honest he had ever been with me. We cried. We laughed some too. And we really talked. And then we started rebuilding... he had already said he was going to try to make it work. But that phone call from OW and my confronting him head-on took all the wishy washy ambiguity out of it. It was really a fish-or-cut-bait proposition by then, but I had reached the end of my limit.

My own instinct would be to go to her and talk to her. It's another country but can you do that? If you are seriously to the point where you say feel you need to have answers and are on the fence with divorce or not divorced, then that's what I would be doing. But I'm very direct once my mind has been made up and I hate waiting things out. No patience at all. Do you do Face time or Skype? How well and how often do you talk as it is now? If you are serious about keeping the marriage and working it out, you just might want to consider actually making a trip to see her in her element if that's feasible (and safe). How did you learn about that dating site anyway? Are you sure she's really signed on and looking, or was it a curiosity thing? Sometimes people put stuff on those sites just to see what, if any, kind of hits they would get. Is there any way to find out more about her activity on that site? If she's really being active on that type of thing, I would say it's better not to wait until the end of the year.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Gus is right. There is nothing to discuss but divorce.

You may discover that she accepts the news without much protest.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Gus is right.


You know, LW... it's been my studied -- and completely unbiased, of course -- observation that people would be so much better served if they could just find a way to reach this conclusion sooner than they usually do.

As I said, no bias here. 

:smthumbup:


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> You know, LW... it's been my studied -- and completely unbiased, of course -- observation that people would be so much better served if they could just find a way to reach this conclusion sooner than they usually do.
> 
> As I said, no bias here.
> 
> :smthumbup:


Gus and Longwalk, you seem very certain that is the best action to take. Can you help explain why? To me filing for divorce is like giving up, throwing in the towel. But of course, I guess that is true of many. For me I had so much of myself invested in this marriage. 

For anyone from USA wanting to marry a foreign national is a major headache to go through immigration, time and money. I also help my wife with everything, pay her car, her education costs, everything. 

I just feel snakebitten having invested thousands of dollars paying for her flight home and then over 5K for our vacation weeks ago, to see her open a profile on a dating site. 

And what is so strange, she is not a user, she is very nice and I want our marriage to work. 

Help spell it out for me.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> Gus and Longwalk, you seem very certain that is the best action to take. Can you help explain why? To me filing for divorce is like giving up, throwing in the towel. But of course, I guess that is true of many. For me I had so much of myself invested in this marriage.
> 
> For anyone from USA wanting to marry a foreign national is a major headache to go through immigration, time and money. I also help my wife with everything, pay her car, her education costs, everything.
> 
> ...


Seriously...?

1) No sex on your vacation, despite having been apart for months.

2) By her own admission, she doesn't miss you or your marriage, but she misses her lifestyle, house, etc.

3) She's clearly either dating or looking to date while living apart from you. In other words, *she's cheating on you*, and she's likely looking to replace you w/ a beau from her own country.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

SawbladeLily said:


> Indeed a tough one. You can't do text or email because you have to have the face to face contact, and be able to read body language, etc.
> 
> When my husband was first unfaithful but only saying he wasn't sure if he loved me anymore without admitting the rest, I went in P.I. mode and ferreted out all the who and what. I didn't confront him with it right away though, because he and I both were on the fence with what we were feeling. That all changed when OW called me at home hoping to shock me and hoping by telling me I would throw him out (then she could have him... he had just told her he was staying with his family). I wasn't going to put up with any of that kind of sh**. That's when I needed to confront him and make him fess up and put all the cards on the table. But I did not do even telephone, but needed face to face time. He was working about 13 hours away from home (home every other weekend at the time) and I didn't want to wait for the weekend even. I had my sister come and stay with the kids and I got in the car to drive to him. I showed up unannounced and said "we need to talk... your girlfriend called the house and I can't have that around the kids".
> That certainly opened up all the cards and that evening was probably the most open and honest he had ever been with me. We cried. We laughed some too. And we really talked. And then we started rebuilding... he had already said he was going to try to make it work. But that phone call from OW and my confronting him head-on took all the wishy washy ambiguity out of it. It was really a fish-or-cut-bait proposition by then, but I had reached the end of my limit.
> ...



SawbladeLily,

I know face to face is best, however I spent all my money on the vacation I have no funds to fly to her country as it is thousands of dollars to get there. We do talk several times a week, mainly on FB chat. We try facetime, but it often does not work (the video) so only Facebook audio would work but again cannot see her face or gestures.

I unintentionally and without any motivation to spy on her opened her hotmail email. Sometimes I had helped her with things and she must have given me here password. That is when I quite surprisingly saw all of these messages from the dating site, so I opened the web site on my own, signed up with a fake profile and searched, found her profile. She just opened it up a few days ago. She only replied to one man, the rest she deleted off. They are just talking at this point. they both said they liked each other's smile. He asked her how long she has been "separated" yesterday. She has not replied yet.

Meanwhile she is very affectionate in her words to me like all is well. On the vacation we were affectionate, held hands, kissed, but no sex. She says she loves me every time she messages me. Someone said earlier that she wants to keep her life but not with me. Well, that isn't going to fly. Either we are married man and wife or we are not.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Seriously...?
> 
> 1) No sex on your vacation, despite having been apart for months.
> 
> ...


On 1) and no sex for two years add on to that. 

On 2) yes, that sounds pretty heartless to my feelings. That is where I said I learned she told a friend that she misses her (our) house and that holds her, but NOT me. That is pretty cruel. 

3) But why is she telling me in direct conversation that she will come back end of year and we renew our marriage, including romance? Is she lying to me, or also to herself? The fact that she says to me "I love you more than anything" really gets me, how can someone say that and cheat? That is not true. When we both agreed together that we BOTH wanted to make a new start, how can she do this? Also, she mentioned that our vacation was the start of this renewal. 

I know you may see this so clear, and appreciate everyone's help, but when someone is caught up in the emotions of the marriage and the history it is difficult to see your point, although crystal clear to you. 11 years married since 2003. Thank you again and any more help keep talking.


----------



## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Let her go. To me this is an absurd situation.

I could not vote because I did not see any viable options listed.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Entropy3000 said:


> Let her go. To me this is an absurd situation.
> 
> I could not vote because I did not see any viable options listed.


Thanks, yes it seems to be absurd. Any marriage of 2 people from different countries is challenging to begin with. Then factor in the difficulties of the last few years, it sounds absurb. When I tell my family and friends, yes my wife is away for 8 months, they are like WTF!!! 

The poll questions really do not apply anymore, but most people have replied have said divorce. One or two have said I should talk to her and definitely confront on the web dating site.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> On the vacation we were affectionate, held hands, kissed, but no sex. She says she loves me every time she messages me.


Stop listening to what she's saying to you w/ her mouth and instead listen to what she's NOT saying to you w/ her vagina.



GreenLantern said:


> Someone said earlier that she wants to keep her life but not with me. Well, that isn't going to fly. Either we are married man and wife or we are not.


There you go. You have your answer.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> On 1) and no sex for two years add on to that.


Ouch. It's a shame that you can't divorce her more than once.



GreenLantern said:


> On 2) yes, that sounds pretty heartless to my feelings. That is where I said I learned she told a friend that she misses her (our) house and that holds her, but NOT me. That is pretty cruel.


Indeed. And honestly, what else do you need to hear? Cardinal rule of truly getting to know anyone, especially a spouse or significant other -- watch and listen to what they do and say when they think that you're not watching or listening.



GreenLantern said:


> 3) But why is she telling me in direct conversation that she will come back end of year and we renew our marriage, including romance? Is she lying to me, or also to herself? The fact that she says to me "I love you more than anything" really gets me, how can someone say that and cheat? That is not true. When we both agreed together that we BOTH wanted to make a new start, how can she do this? Also, she mentioned that our vacation was the start of this renewal.


She's lying to you. Are sending her money at all? Paying any of her bills? Still paying for her education? If yes to any of this, she's trying to keep you on the hook for financial purposes. It really is that simple.



GreenLantern said:


> I know you may see this so clear, and appreciate everyone's help, but when someone is caught up in the emotions of the marriage and the history it is difficult to see your point, although crystal clear to you. 11 years married since 2003. Thank you again and any more help keep talking.


Correct. You're in the trenches w/ this situation, and you need a 30,000-ft view; that's why you came here, and that's what we're providing.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Green Lantern,

Your name says it all – a fixer. But your marriage cannot be fixed because your wife has zero attraction for you.

There is a thread here, LostLove77, from which you can learn how separation works out.

By the way, begin by doing the 180. Stop all communication with your WAW. 

The fact that your wife has sexually starved you for two years shows that she doesn't care about you a whit. She couldn't even take the trouble to keep you hanging with a pity fvck. 

Read MMSLP. 

How do you work out? Hit the gym build muscle and start dating.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> Ouch. It's a shame that you can't divorce her more than once.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I have helped her financially through the years, even when we were not having troubles because her salary was not adequate and I have a nice paying job. But since the troubles and other stuff where she had more financial issues with things in her country (long story), I started to help more, took over her car payments. Essentially, she pays for nothing. When she went back to her country last year, I started sending help money for her living expenses every month. Since the vacation, I have not resumed the monthly help, nor has she asked strangely. She does have a job now there so I'm sure that helps, but I wonder why she didn't ask about the help money? 

It's almost like she used the vacation and lack of sex as a trigger maybe which spurred her to use the dating web site. To clarify about the sex part, she said she "could not" and that she was scared about that. why? My only thought is she is scared she cannot have sex with me or anyone else? She said later in the conversation that she may not be prepared yet to love or give of herself. I am not sure I communicated the back story that she was depressed before, had seen therapist here in USA (who we both agreed thought we should get a divorce!) and in her country.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Green Lantern,
> 
> Your name says it all – a fixer. But your marriage cannot be fixed because your wife has zero attraction for you.
> 
> ...


Sorry, Longwalk can you help me with all the acronyms? What is WAW?

Well interesting you should mention gym. I had gained some weight a few years ago, but for the past year I have been heavily working out and lost over 30 pounds. My wife has told me I look great and that i look gorgeous. Also, she joked while on our vacation, that she now has to watch out for other women as I look really good now. So, WTF? If she finds me attractive, why no sex and why the appearance that she is jealous and doesn't want any other woman after me? Remember how she reacted to the woman at the pool bar? This really makes no sense to me. I understand she may have lost attraction, but what she says and some of her actions are contrary to that. Also, when she said she could not have sex, she said something like "it's been too long". I don't get that either. What does time between sex have anything to do with anything? Is it possible she just has some psychological issues she needs to work out? I do love her, but I know you are all trying to help me make right choices. 

Thanks again,


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

WAW = Walk-away wife


----------



## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> Sorry, Longwalk can you help me with all the acronyms? What is WAW?
> 
> Well interesting you should mention gym. I had gained some weight a few years ago, but for the past year I have been heavily working out and lost over 30 pounds. My wife has told me I look great and that i look gorgeous. Also, she joked while on our vacation, that she now has to watch out for other women as I look really good now. So, WTF? If she finds me attractive, why no sex and why the appearance that she is jealous and doesn't want any other woman after me? Remember how she reacted to the woman at the pool bar? This really makes no sense to me. I understand she may have lost attraction, but what she says and some of her actions are contrary to that. Also, when she said she could not have sex, she said something like "it's been too long". I don't get that either. What does time between sex have anything to do with anything? Is it possible she just has some psychological issues she needs to work out? I do love her, but I know you are all trying to help me make right choices.
> 
> Thanks again,


Her attraction is to what you REPRESENT...security and not even having to put out for it.

You need to man up and do the 180.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GreenLantern, you keep asking .why she would say one thing, but show you another thing through her actions."

These people are all telling you -- actions matter, words really do not. 

Here's what is almost certain that you don't seem to be getting, hearing, or understanding: she is planning a life without you, and buying time fom you to make it so, all the while having you support her and using you to have her material needs met. Sll she has to do in order to make this happen is say "love you. in chat a few times, spend a paid-for vacation and kiss you a few times, and go about some counseling sessions for HERSELF (ie, not for your marriage). 

Wake up, and see it for that. Then if you're heart is telling you maybe it isn,t really so, go about getting proof that I am wrong in something beyond her saying so. I bet you can't.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> GreenLantern, you keep asking .why she would say one thing, but show you another thing through her actions."
> 
> These people are all telling you -- actions matter, words really do not.
> 
> ...


OK, good points. BUT, and I think I have heard from psychologists, is that one must love yourself first before loving others. That is the reason my wife gave in the first place for separating more than 8 months ago, to find herself, feel good about herself before she can be a wife to me again. That was the plan. Is there something wrong with that?

But I do agree, that to fix my marriage or any marriage you must work together, be physically together in the same place and if need be go to marriage counseling together. I have expressed the need to be together, she says she agrees, but I have to wait until end of year when her job contract ends. It sounds from what you are all saying is she is stringing me along and has no intention to try again. The dating web site is a validation of that. The only thing I could do at this point is to confront her on it, and ask her to please come home now. If she says no, then time for divorce. Does this make sense?

Keep it coming, you are all helping me.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Well yeah, you could continue being a doormat and ASK her to please, please, pretty please come home now if you kinda maybe might want to... and then react based on her response. 

Or, you could man up a bit, and you could lay it on the line during the dating site confrontation. Like, you could print out her profile, hand it to her and TELL her in no uncertain terms that some significant changes must occur -- beginning with the truth about her dating site profile, and the results of it... then based on her response to THAT, possibly continung with having an actual marriage where you live together -- and without it, her gravy train is about to end.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> Well yeah, you could continue being a doormat and ASK her to please, please, pretty please come home now if you kinda maybe might want to... and then react based on her response.
> 
> Or, you could man up a bit, and you could lay it on the line during the dating site confrontation. Like, you could print out her profile, hand it to her and TELL her in no uncertain terms that some significant changes must occur -- beginning with the truth about her dating site profile, and the results of it... then based on her response to THAT, possibly continuing with having an actual marriage where you live together -- and without it, her gravy train is about to end.


Well to do that I would have to fly to her. Unfortunately cannot do that right now due to lack of funds and my job. It is a long flight too. I agree it should be in person, but I may have to confront over faceTime. But I wonder if a lighter touch may work. Make strong case for coming home, and maybe she will delete her profile. She has not checked it in a few days. I know what you are saying though. 

That is odd, you used the word "doormat", something one of my relatives said when they learned I was sending money to help support her while she's been away from me. Other relatives who know the situation think the worse too. It's so hard to believe someone that loved you would be a user like that. She is not even materialistic person, she works hard and has an admirable profession. She hasn't really bought much stuff for herself too, such as alot of clothes and shoes, etc. She pointed that out to me that she never asked me for money for "comfort" items, only necessities. But I have bought her nice gifts for birthday, Valentine's day, bought her expensive purses she loves, but still this. And last year was hell, she was down there for her birthday, our anniversary and Christmas. But she kept stressing she needs the time to get better. Sorry for rambling, I guess I am hurt about this dating web site and this feeling of abandonment, because that is what I feel.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Green Lantern,

Do you mention that you know about the website profile. Keep your sources secret.

Do the 180, file for divorce, don't talk to her. Go dark.

If she calls and messages without stop for four days, ask her one question: "What do you want from me?"

That's it.

If she says she is scrapping together the money to fly home to and will not be wearing panties when she comes through the door, just say "really?".

You need to become a mysterious hard to get dude to have any chance of reconciliation. But you should be able to do better than your wife. After all, a new relationship will include sex and affection. 

I mentioned LostLove's thread because his WAW would not put out for him but did sleep with a few guys. Once LL got sick of it, decided to divorce and found a girlfriend, his WAW became interested in him. "I am getting laid" can be seen on a man's face by a woman who knows him.

When you do the 180, your wife will immediately wonder if you have met someone. But if she talks to you and senses your needy pent up desire, your sex ranking will plummet directly back to minus 2 on a scale of 10.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern,

Your wife is hedging her bets. She has you waiting for her until the end of the year. In the mean time she is checking out other men to see if she can find someone who will take care of her as well as you do. They way she could just start over. It's often a lot easier to start over than to fix a marriage that has problems.

Your wife has clearly lost the bond she once had for you. You describe a marriage in which you and she spent little time together. This kills a lot of marriages. 

There is a way to rebuild the bond and the passion. A good source for how to do this is the book "His Needs, Her Needs" . But your wife has to be living with you for this to work.

Unfortunately your wife is in the driver's seat.. meaning she's the one who is determining who this move forward. You need to put a stop to this. She's playing games.


If I were you I'd act like nothing was wrong for a bit. Keep an eye on her email to find out what she's up to on that dating site. 

See an attorney to find your rights and to file for divorce. Move on with your life and find someone who will work on a marriage with you and not just user you financially.

If you want to give you one last chance, tell her that you cannot go on like this and she has to move back to live with you NOW. If she says no then you have your answer. She's not interested in living with you and being married to you.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> GreenLantern,
> 
> Your wife is hedging her bets. She has you waiting for her until the end of the year. In the mean time she is checking out other men to see if she can find someone who will take care of her as well as you do. They way she could just start over. It's often a lot easier to start over than to fix a marriage that has problems.
> 
> ...


Yes, she loves her job where she is at, so I guess the easy way out is to throw away a 10 year marriage and start over. 

We were always doing things together when she was here, it wasn't that we were apart, it was more like too much routine. I recognize that now, but like you said must be together to rekindle, otherwise pointless. That book looks good. I also bought "The Path of Love" by Deepak Chopra but have not read it yet. I want to pay attention to her needs, and that she is #1 above all else (which I told her twice) but like you said she is controlling things by being away. 

One thing that is strange, she now has removed the pictures from here profile on the dating site but still has the profile up. To me that means three possible things. One, she found some "prospects" and is tired of getting bombarded by messages to her inbox , two, she is afraid of getting caught (too late for that) and three, she has regrets starting up a dating profile in the first place. I have no way of knowing. Any other theories? 

I may lay low for a time, but since she just started doing it, nothing has happened yet (probably), it may be better to confront sooner before things get to far.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She probably took her picture down because she's unsure of what to do right now. Just keep an eye on her email.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> She probably took her picture down because she's unsure of what to do right now. Just keep an eye on her email.


Yes, possibly. I also saw on her profile she says she is interested in a casual relationship, for whatever that is worth.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

With all due respect, I really disagree on laying low and waiting for something to happen. You're a married man whose wife has opened a profile on a dating website. Do you really want to wait more until you're a married man whose wife opened a orofile on a datingwebsite, started accepting dates and had sex with other men all while you knew she had the profile up?

What's left of your marriage is falling part thousands of miles away, and while I get the expense and distance issue, sitting by and watching it happen from afar is a recipe for eventual regret no matter what happens.

Don't look back months oryears from now and think "I just might have been able to do something about it, but I wouldn't spend the $2,000 on a plane ticket."


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I setup a consult with a divorce lawyer to discuss my options, rights, etc and I will think more about what to do. I find this very stressful and the person that said I am a fixer, you are right, I never give up on anything. I need to figure out what to do.

I will confront on dating web site, but so far it is quiet with no new messages being sent, no activity. But her messages are less frequent to me, she may be busy but the romantic emoticons have stopped.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Do not confront about the dating site. It is far more effective if you say something like: "I know you are pursuing other men."

Her reply: "How do you know?"

You: "I know you and I feel it."

End of discussion.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

LongWalk said:


> Do not confront about the dating site. It is far more effective if you say something like: "I know you are pursuing other men."
> 
> Her reply: "How do you know?"
> 
> ...


TOTALLY agree with this! Yes! :iagree:

Of course, she will deny... question is, then what...? Just stay with the approach... that you *know*... 

Also need to have a plan for what to say if she agrees and admits it.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Update for you all. I saw the lawyer today. The advice from the lawyer after I outlined everything going on is that I make up my mind what I want and not focus on what she wants and the reasons she did this or that. Reality is she has been separated from me for 2 years with me fully supporting her financially with nothing in return. The word "doormat" was used. 

She said if I want to try to reconcile, I should tell her to come back NOW (as many of you suggested) and that she should pay for the flight. She suggested I tell my wife I cannot go on like this and if you want to save our marriage you need to return.

If the answer is NO, I should file for divorce which would be over probably in 90 days as the separation has been 2 years. She said if NO, I need to move on and be happy again. 

What do you all think of this plan?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I think she voted with her vagina already. Just send her the divorce petition. If she is shocked and begs to stay married, then you say get on a plane and come home.


----------



## SawbladeLily (Oct 26, 2013)

LongWalk said:


> I think she voted with her vagina already. Just send her the divorce petition. If she is shocked and begs to stay married, then you say get on a plane and come home.


I disagree with the "voted with her vagina". Women look at sex differently than men. Most women don't like doormat sex or duty sex. It's hard to make a comment one way or the other about the sex part and why she didn't want any because we don't know the whole back story, or HER story. The lack of sex is a symptom but not necessarily the problem. Fix the problem and the sex COULD come back, and better than before. 

There were times that I hated sex with my husband. He worked away from home a lot and sometimes it felt like he came home to get laid and do his laundry. I had been home all week long with a toddler and a baby, so at the very least, he could have sat down with me and given me the time and decency to have a conversation. If I had to fight the tv remote for his attention, then I wasn't real interested in the romp-and-roll-over sex either. Duty sex felt like abuse to me, and I wouldn't buy that. Then we dealt with all kinds of crap, including an infidelity on his part. But we worked it out and for a while there, the sex was GREAT. But we were BOTH trying to be responsive to each other's needs and not just busy with ourselves. But slowly, the same habits crept back in and he started to travel again and was away a lot, and he was self-absorbed being very busy and I was resentful. The distance came back, then I got very very sick and our love life died. Too bad because I beat what I was dealing with and was starting to feel euphoric and thrilled to be alive and not wanting to waste any more time. I was getting excited about plans we were once making and felt like a new person. That's when he told me that he had fallen in love with another. What a gut punch. 

So Greenlantern, you have to take an honest look at how things were, and if you still want a marriage, then you two HAVE to talk about what went wrong. If you don't fix the initial problem, nothing will change in the long run. About a lawyer's advice? A lawyer is in the divorce business, not the marriage counseling business. Do NOT let them make the call about what to do. You make that call and then they help you with the details. I know some lawyers who are AWESOME at their job, but suck at relationships. One in particular is about the biggest womanizer I know, and all the cheaters hire him when they go to get divorced! So be careful about taking relationship advice from a law person. Don't confuse law with love. My two cents worth. Sorry to disagree with others.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Yes, I know the lawyer advice may be skewed, but she said it is how I feel and is up to me. It may help that she is a woman lawyer and she is saying my wife is using me. I do know that to fix it, we must be together, and being apart for a long time plus this dating web site is a marriage killer. Both have to go away to fix. 

I am still thinking about what to do. This week my wife has been less responsive. She did not even reply when I said I could not send more money, but she was online. hmmm.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Yes, I know the lawyer advice may be skewed, but she said it is how I feel and is up to me. It may help that she is a woman lawyer and she is saying my wife is using me. I do know that to fix it, we must be together, and being apart for a long time plus this dating web site is a marriage killer. Both have to go away to fix.
> 
> I am still thinking about what to do. This week my wife has been less responsive. She did not even reply when I said I could not send more money, but she was online. hmmm.


I agree that a major problem here is that your wife has lived across the globe from your for about 2 years and does not plan to return for months, if ever. 

Has she had any more contact with anyone from the dating site? Could it have been a one-off curiosity?

.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

GreenLantern said:


> Update for you all. I saw the lawyer today. The advice from the lawyer after I outlined everything going on is that I make up my mind what I want and not focus on what she wants and the reasons she did this or that. Reality is she has been separated from me for 2 years with me fully supporting her financially with nothing in return. The word "doormat" was used.
> 
> She said if I want to try to reconcile, I should tell her to come back NOW (as many of you suggested) and that she should pay for the flight. She suggested I tell my wife I cannot go on like this and if you want to save our marriage you need to return.
> 
> ...


I like your lawyer. I vote for the "No" plan -- file for divorce (w/ zero warning), withdraw all financial support for your wife, and move on w/ your life.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

SawBladeLilly,

I appreciate you sharing your experience. Life is not black and white. However, the OP's wife came back after a long absence and he was anxious to connect with her. She did not have any desire for him. Two years is a long time.

If she had a small child, distracting her perhaps there would be a reason.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I agree that a major problem here is that your wife has lived across the globe from your for about 2 years and does not plan to return for months, if ever.
> 
> Has she had any more contact with anyone from the dating site? Could it have been a one-off curiosity?
> 
> .


The first guy she exchanged one or twp emails a week ago, but nothing since. Yesterday she exchanged photos with another guy.

Last night I gave the ultimatum via email to come home because I could not talk to her directly. She responded today by saying she has been sick last few days and she needs to see her therapist. Maybe guilt over the dating site? She says she loves me very much. 

I am trying to be careful to look at actions and not words from now on.


----------



## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

Can you add "file for divorce, 180, stop sending money, and move on from your long-estranged wife" to the poll options?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

tulsy said:


> Can you add "file for divorce, 180, stop sending money, and move on from your long-estranged wife" to the poll options?


I don't see any way to edit my poll question as circumstances changed. One way to vote for divorce is to LIKE this post.

I know mental/psych issues can be involved here with my wife and I want to be compassionate and believe she may have these issues, but we have had these problems for years. I think any proposal we discuss must involve us living together in the same city under the same roof and go to marriage counseling. She has been seeing this therapist for at least 6 months. I hope she tells the therapist she opened a profile on a dating site and has communicated to at least 2 men. The words I love you must be backed up by actions. Am I right?


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Sick? How convenient. 3 days ago you said there had been no recent email activity from the dating website. Now she is sending pictures, which she wasn't too sick to find the time for. Seems she has time for dating websites, photos with other guys, her friends, and her therapist -- but not you, even when you say you can't send money, nor your marriage.. Wake up, my friend, she is telling you everything you need to know without saying the words.
You said before she has to be living with you in order to work things out between you two. Well she had to want to, as well, snd she is SHOWING you that she has no inclination do so while TELLING you otherwise. 
You are in for one rude awakening, sorry.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Today she deleted her profile on the dating site and all the responses she received (except for the two guys she replied to, she did not delete those). I am now wondering if I should bring up the dating site at all now. What do you think? 

She has agreed to have a long talk with me, but so far 2 days and nothing. She did say she was not feeling well, she has checked in, but we have not spoken yet. I am getting anxious but have script of things I want to say, things she may bring up and different possible responses to my demand for her to come home. I had thought to expose the dating site if she continues to insist to stay through the end of the year, but since she deleted the profile and I have no evidence of "cheating" (like dating or worse), I may want to hold that for later. I am more prepared for clear answers from her like yes I am coming home or I want a divorce or some other negative separation change for worse. In the event of anything negative, I will tell her we should get divorced. If she says yes, I am coming home to try, then we do that. If she wants to continue this 5 month wait, I am uncertain what to say or do. Help would be appreciated. I could just say, well I cannot accept that so I think we should get divorced. 

Well, let me know. If I talk to her in meantime, I will let you know what happens.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You are giving her too many options. It has become very simple. You tell her you are done. Don't say more than two sentences. If she cares, she will make a huge effort to communicate. You should listen as if you were skeptical – you are skeptical aren't you? – and if she says she is coming home, say fine, but for what? Why? If there is no passion, what do you want her to come home to?

When her choices are limited to action, she will see you as a leader, someone who knows what they want, someone who has boundaries. Your lack of boundaries has undoubtedly contributed to this mess. Toughen up.

As far as the dating site, don't mention it. Just say your gut tells you that she is not faithful.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> You are giving her too many options. It has become very simple. You tell her you are done. Don't say more than two sentences. If she cares, she will make a huge effort to communicate. You should listen as if you were skeptical – you are skeptical aren't you? – and if she says she is coming home, say fine, but for what? Why? If there is no passion, what do you want her to come home to?
> 
> When her choices are limited to action, she will see you as a leader, someone who knows what they want, someone who has boundaries. Your lack of boundaries has undoubtedly contributed to this mess. Toughen up.
> 
> As far as the dating site, don't mention it. Just say your gut tells you that she is not faithful.



Well before I read this I was talking to her. It is as I feared it would be, it was not positive YES or negative NO, I want a divorce, it was more of the same.

First, I was calm and cool I stated what I wanted, said I want to try again, said we need to communicate, do things and have fun, etc.

This is what she told me. One, she said that my ultimatum was like pressure and she got physically ill from it. She told me she is depressed and not happy but happier because she is near her family and working in her profession. (Here in USA she was working in a similar job, but less pay). She said she needs get happy BEFORE she can come back. I said nothing is 100% happiness, what is important is being together. She also said she doesn't want to go back to the same conditions as before that made her sad, such as living in the place we do, her job, etc. She said more than once it is not me, that she loves me. I even said truthfully that I would be willing to move to her country in a year or two, but she really did not answer to that.

She also made complaints that I have not changed and complained I did not renovate the house and spruce up the house while she was gone those 8 months. Instead she complained about some of the collectible toys I collect and the fact I had a new Xbox One. I said that I work hard, and it is my hobby and leisure time, but she complained about that. I was a little offended too as my mom died last year, and my dad was in hospital for 4 months. I coped with this ALONE without her! I thought a wife stands by her husband when this stuff happens, instead she runs away. So I bought a collectible toys and an XBOX one, so what!!! Guys like their toys! I just thought it strange and f*cked up to say this about the house and my toys when they are my outlet to both parents nearly dying this past year. Immature was the word she used on the phone. I think she is the immature one. (I kept cool through the entire call, just venting here)


I told her I changed, that I would make the time for us and our marriage. She really did not answer, and kept going back to the need to complete her therapy and her job assignment through the end of the year. 

Oddly none of the things i was trying to expect like another guy or divorce came up.

I also stressed that she says she loves me more than anything, but I need action. Again, back to the fact that she needs to be happy before coming home. She says she wants to wait to end of year. 

And finally, she said she understands it is difficult being apart this long, she mentioned that she understands if I cannot "wait for her". (Is she inviting me to say I want a divorce?) Why is she putting this on me, it is her that chose to separate and move away, I have been waiting for years!!!! 

The only reason I can think of to wait to year end is she will come home, but this talk did not reinforce that. The talk today has taken me one step closer to filing for divorce. I thought about mentioning the dating web site, but actually thought it pointless. I am considering telling her I want a divorce tomorrow. I really want to here from you all, including the ones that said I should wait.

Please, your advice?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I think you have what you need to know. She did not listen to what you had to say. Instead she just complained that you have an Xbox and some collectable toys. She's not even around, why would she care if you bought those things?

She says that she is not happy living where you live, but then she complains because you have not redone the house? Wouldn't she want to be part of re-doing the house? But if she wants you to move what's the point of redoing the house?

My point is that she just threw out a lot of things to deflect. She completely ignored what you were telling her. It's all about her. It's been all about her for some time.

Did she really even commit to returning to where you live at the end of the year?

If it were me, I'd most likely just file. And I would not tell her that's what I'm doing.. I'd just do it and let her get the papers.

what's the point of talking to her if she's not going to even pay attention to what you tell her?


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

I agree with Elegirl... what are you fighting to save? A now 5 year old memory of something that doesn't exist in her anymore. She's always tired, sick, resting, depressed, deflecting, ignoring, and now criticizing (or posting photos and profiles), doing for herself only -- never answering, acting, or committing for YOUR mutual benefit. She does want you to be the one to act so she can somehiw not feel as guilty for it ending, wants to be able to say "it was his choice; I was depressed and he bailed" (and you are buying it btw). Beyond the dishonesty, why would you even want this person in your life, much less as your wife? More importantly, why are you still buying it? It's over, and has been for some time... and the only one who doesn't know that is you. My only question about her is why she continues to play you. Does she think she is letting you out gently? or is she just cruel?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> More importantly, why are you still buying it? It's over, and has been for some time... and the only one who doesn't know that is you. My only question about her is why she continues to play you. Does she think she is letting you out gently? or is she just cruel?


Up to now GreenLantern was sending her money monthly. That alone was worth keeping him on a string. Perhaps she is now hoping to calm GreenLantern down so that he will send her the monthly income.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

You are torturing yourself GL. 

If you are not quite ready to file, the least you can do is start enforcing your boundaries. No one, including your wife can disagree or resent you for believing in fidelity. 

So, a very simple "I am not ok with an open marriage" would be a good start. Email it if you want with a screenshot of her dating profile. (Not a screenshot of her email).

No one else is going to stand up for you. You need to stand up for yourself.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

GL,

Read other threads on TAM and you will discover that we are not against marriage or reconciliation. Your wife is probably sick. She has mental issues. She identifies you as a cause of her pain, but you are not. Your x-Box does not hurt her. Well, now that she knows about it, it is hurting her a lot.

One of the reasons she keeps you around is because you are her scape goat. She is unhappy and blames it on you.

Do not engage her in chit chat. It gets you nowhere. Go dark on her. File for divorce. If she loves you, she will come of her own volition. She has enough homing pigeon in her to find her way.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I think you have what you need to know. She did not listen to what you had to say. Instead she just complained that you have an Xbox and some collectable toys. She's not even around, why would she care if you bought those things?
> 
> She says that she is not happy living where you live, but then she complains because you have not redone the house? Wouldn't she want to be part of re-doing the house? But if she wants you to move what's the point of redoing the house?
> 
> ...


Yes, some of it doesn't make sense. First she says she wants to keep our house and fix it, then she goes back to she hates it and doesn't want to live there, to yesterday complaining I made no attempt to keep it looking the way she wants and starting remodeling, etc. It is very confusing.

Yes, she and I talked several times about coming home at end of year in person and on chat, however, she made no effort to reinforce this on our phone call last night.

Oh and yes, I was thinking that too, that I just file the divorce. What really is there more to say?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Up to now GreenLantern was sending her money monthly. That alone was worth keeping him on a string. Perhaps she is now hoping to calm GreenLantern down so that he will send her the monthly income.


Yes, last night she said that she is not asking me to send thousands of dollars. She mentioned sending what I could to help her with her bills, rent, and her therapy costs. She doesn't have any money, just her salary from her job. I did not say anything when she said this. I actually am upset that she had opened up the dating web site profile, which shows she is possibly looking to replace me and just give up and stay there as she prefers that job, that life and of course her family is there. I spoke to her, kept making my points and I did not get the response back that gave me any feeling at all she wanted to FIGHT to save our marriage. Just that she is not happy and needs this therapy. I think it was more of what she did not say that was important, than what she said.

And BTW, no way am I sending money, although she will try to make me feel guilty, assign blame on me.


----------



## LBHmidwest (Jan 3, 2014)

Dude... You sound like a nice man.

Your ex isn't. You are Green Lantern ATM

WHEN you cut off your communication and $, then you will get more communication than you want

It's easier to give advice than take it. I went along trying to be a good man, trying to reconcile, trying to wait out the devil to leave my ex and the angel to return.

It left me more hurt, confused, broke and angry.

Sincerely, for yourself and kids - just stop. File divorce, get your financial house and order and protect yourself.

Honestly, give her what she wants - not you.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LBHmidwest said:


> Dude... You sound like a nice man.
> 
> Your ex isn't. You are Green Lantern ATM
> 
> ...



Thank you for your advice. Well one thing is we have no kids, so this will be less stressful, even so, I wish it could have worked out.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Yes, last night she said that she is not asking me to send thousands of dollars. She mentioned sending what I could to help her with her bills, rent, and her therapy costs. She doesn't have any money, just her salary from her job. I did not say anything when she said this. I actually am upset that she had opened up the dating web site profile, which shows she is possibly looking to replace me and just give up and stay there as she prefers that job, that life and of course her family is there. I spoke to her, kept making my points and I did not get the response back that gave me any feeling at all she wanted to FIGHT to save our marriage. Just that she is not happy and needs this therapy. I think it was more of what she did not say that was important, than what she said.
> 
> And BTW, no way am I sending money, although she will try to make me feel guilty, assign blame on me.


Well, if she does not come back to you, then all she has is her income from her job. I guess that's reality and she will need to learn to live with it.

.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Thank you for your advice. Well one thing is we have no kids, so this will be less stressful, even so, I wish it could have worked out.


Yes, it would have been good if your marriage had worked out. Broken marriages are hard on one's life.

But remember that when one door closes, other doors open. You will have an opportunity, if you want, to find another woman who will love you and treat you much better. You have learned a lot through this marriage and will be able to apply it to your next relationship.

Are you getting out and doing social things these days? You really need to. What are you doing for yourself?


----------



## Arrag (Jul 30, 2014)

GL I haven't read this entire thread, but I will. I can't believe the amount of people in these threads who move onto other relationships while in current ones. That's the biggest underlying theme I see across the board. In your OP you mentioned the beautiful other woman. She needed to finish up her business with her X while you finished up your business with yours. Every time there is someone there to leap to that is serial monogamy, a co dependency. And that's not good for anyone on any side of the fence. It might appear attractive in the beginning, but never works out that way. It wouldn't be fair to your wife, that woman, and most importantly yourself. (regardless of what your wife may or may not have done). This is to PEOPLE HANDLE YOU BUSINESS IF IT NEEDS TO END, END IT, THEN PAUSE, REFLECT, HEAL and then and only then move on. Any person of substance if they were told "hey, I think you are attractive, but I really need to see my current situation through completely" should respect that and value that, because they would see that as a character quality, not a liability.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Arrag said:


> GL I haven't read this entire thread, but I will. I can't believe the amount of people in these threads who move onto other relationships while in current ones. That's the biggest underlying theme I see across the board. In your OP you mentioned the beautiful other woman. She needed to finish up her business with her X while you finished up your business with yours. Every time there is someone there to leap to that is serial monogamy, a co dependency. And that's not good for anyone on any side of the fence. It might appear attractive in the beginning, but never works out that way. It wouldn't be fair to your wife, that woman, and most importantly yourself. (regardless of what your wife may or may not have done). This is to PEOPLE HANDLE YOU BUSINESS IF IT NEEDS TO END, END IT, THEN PAUSE, REFLECT, HEAL and then and only then move on. Any person of substance if they were told "hey, I think you are attractive, but I really need to see my current situation through completely" should respect that and value that, because they would see that as a character quality, not a liability.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Hi and thanks for reply. the 1st post and poll question is really not applicable anymore. That woman I spoke of is now divorced but I did nothing with her. I agree with you totally that everyone should fully be out of a relationship, whether that be boyfriend/girlfriend or spouse due to the emotions involved. You want to be totally clean, like a door has closed and all you have is the future. 

For my marriage, I tried everything I could, but if the other person is not willing or has other ideas, it will not work. I don't understand why she can't go to therapy HERE and not THERE. I see no explanation, other than the depression sickness that was mentioned. It would explain alot. But I do not like be assigned blame for something that is not my fault. I think what tipped this for me was the dating site my wife joined (since cancelled on her own) and the message she sent to her cousin that only her house 'holds her" and not me. That is fairly obvious that her love and passion for me is gone. But she is possessive and jealous, so again, that is crazy too. I feel like her mealticket. I do not get why she does not think this is wrong and using someone! She has no idea I know about the dating site or her true feelings. She will not come clean about them. I asked, she said nothing.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Yes, it would have been good if your marriage had worked out. Broken marriages are hard on one's life.
> 
> But remember that when one door closes, other doors open. You will have an opportunity, if you want, to find another woman who will love you and treat you much better. You have learned a lot through this marriage and will be able to apply it to your next relationship.
> 
> Are you getting out and doing social things these days? You really need to. What are you doing for yourself?


Thank you, i have been alone for a long time. I am very busy with work but I go to gym and have been out on my own just for dinner. I love people so I talk to everyone. I do not want to jump into anything right now, but I don't want to be down either. I feel I must continue to get out, go the gym, and socialize with people. If this ends in divorce, I think it best to wait until the ink is at least dry and its official. After interviewing me, my lawyer says my wife has been a no show living separated for two years already, so there is no waiting period needed for 2 years. She said I should have it finalized in 90 days the moment I file. That would be early November. 

I am a little worried that my wife will plunge into deeper depression once I would file the divorce. I don't understand why I feel guilty, maybe I want to protect her and care for her, but I have been thinking and pretty much everyone here thinks this situation is absurd and not my fault, but still you tend to have these feelings. Her whole family loves me, but they are not married to me, she is. They think I am great and caring husband, but I guess some things aren't meant to be. 11 years gone.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

You care for her. That's understandable. My bet is that she will actually handle the divorce pretty well. She seems to have established a new life and has pretty much moved on in many ways. She also has her family around her. 

She will be ok. You need to worry about yourself.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> She will be ok. You need to worry about yourself.


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: 
Totally and completely. If you don't, who will? :scratchhead: ...


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

GreenLantern said:


> I am a little worried that my wife will plunge into deeper depression once I would file the divorce. I don't understand why I feel guilty, maybe I want to protect her and care for her, but I have been thinking and pretty much everyone here thinks this situation is absurd and not my fault, but still you tend to have these feelings. Her whole family loves me, but they are not married to me, she is. They think I am great and caring husband, but I guess some things aren't meant to be. 11 years gone.


It's hard but you cannot be worried about her. At least not to the point where you are making decisions that are detrimental to your own well being. 

You cannot fix her.

Aside from infidelity and physical abuse, fault is irrelevant. What's important is what each of you do to fix your marriage. You are trying, she is not.

Not only is she not trying, she is living in another country by choice, joining dating websites, withholding herself physically. 

You are not in a marriage.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She is unfaithful. In her own mind she has been hoping for another man to take your place. If she considered you a candidate to be her mate, she would have had sex with you when you last met. End of the movie.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> She is unfaithful. In her own mind she has been hoping for another man to take your place. If she considered you a candidate to be her mate, she would have had sex with you when you last met. End of the movie.


Ok, but could lack of sex be an issue that could be uncovered in marriage counseling. I have no idea why it is not happening. She herself said to her friend in an email she does not know why either and it scares her. So to put it bluntly, she is messed up. I don't think it is physical as I look good and am in shape and she said so. When you say candidate for mate, I am confused. We have been married for almost 11 years, so aren't we mates already? But remember no sex at all for over 3 years. So we were mates for about 8 years and then she turned it off? Help me out here to understand your point. If anyone else could help, please do. 

Update: Dating profile deleted, no new one created. Nothing in her email either for over 10 days. No response to the male suitors. She talked to me throughout week, but just to wish me to have a "great day". She also said that I should be happy (yeah right). 

I am dragging my feet about filing for divorce.... how can you divorce someone you love?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> It's hard but you cannot be worried about her. At least not to the point where you are making decisions that are detrimental to your own well being.
> 
> You cannot fix her.
> 
> ...


Yes, it takes two in a marriage. If I want to fix no matter how much I want to, it is pointless if the other person is not making strides to fix. Of course she said after she returns in December, but I am doubting here sincerity. The dating web site, even though profile deleted and no more contact that I know of, still leaves me wondering. And the thing that cut deeper was her telling her friend right the hell after our vacation that her house holds her and not me. 

I agree she is withholding physically but it appears to be an issue with her mentally. That is why I have been waiting and waiting for years, hoping she will get her therapy done. Obviously this is not working. The only way to fix is 2 people 100% committed to try and go to marriage counselor to seek help.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

My friend, you're still in denial and not hearing what is only apparent to us here because we're not emotionally connected to her. You keep looking for "a reason" (depression or other forces), when the simple reason she isn't really into you anymore comes down to "because she doesn't want to". Whether she did at ine time or not is totally irrelevant. 

Many people all over this forum, myself included, spend years trying to understand why their WS have affairs and cheat on them. In the end, it is because they wanted to, and chose to do it. Same deal applies to your wife. She is living apart from you because she wants to. She is not sleeping with you beca use she doesn't want to. She is making dating profiles and sending photos to other men because she wants to. She is deceiving you because she wants to. 

Someone above said "you don't have a marriage" -- so true. You have a piece of paper + a person you used to be close to that you are pining away for treating you like a pen pal acquaintance. 

Until and unless you draw a line in the sand AND mean it, you'll be this way, at least through December, when you're probably in for a rude awakening when she's really had enough of the charade and says she either isn't coming, or isn't ready to "work on things".

Hope you're listening.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Green Lantern,

You are not married in reality.

You are an option in your wife's long term planning.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Some strange development, quite unexpected appears to be happening.

After our phone conversation about my demand for coming home and her excuses to stay there, we had not communicated much in almost 2 weeks. Messages only, no voice contact.

Tonight while I was out, she messaged me that she was feeling "Down". Then about 2 hours later she tried to call me twice. Then about 30 minutes to hour later she sends this message that she "wants to come home. I need to talk to you.". 

After all of the advice here and my coming to terms of how my wife was taking advantage of my financial support and neglecting our marriage, I am somewhat anxious as to what suddenly has changed her mind. She said she had to stay through year end because of a job contract, now she wants to come home. Has she realized I am right and we need to work on fixing our marriage together, or is she just finally after 9 months homesick, or does she sense I am about ready to file for divorce, or some other reason I cannot see?

What do you think?


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Maybe a little of everything. Maybe she got fired. Maybe she got a big promotion and is ending it with you. Maybe she misses the US. 

The only way you're going to know for sure is talking to her. She,s not supposed to come see you agaun until December, right? And there was no money for another trip to the US? So when will this big discussion take place?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> Maybe a little of everything. Maybe she got fired. Maybe she got a big promotion and is ending it with you. Maybe she misses the US.
> 
> The only way you're going to know for sure is talking to her. She,s not supposed to come see you agaun until December, right? And there was no money for another trip to the US? So when will this big discussion take place?


December was not to be just a visit, it is supposed to be come home and stay.

Yes, no money, and I don't know where she thinks I am going to get it. If she wants to come home, she should pay, but she claims she has no money either.

I imagine we will talk tomorrow and she will reveal her news, decision, whatever it is.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

She shouldn't need a plane ticket in order to talk w/ you.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> December was not to be just a visit, it is supposed to be come home and stay.
> 
> Yes, no money, and I don't know where she thinks I am going to get it. If she wants to come home, she should pay, but she claims she has no money either.
> 
> I imagine we will talk tomorrow and she will reveal her news, decision, whatever it is.


If she has no money and you stopped sending her money, then maybe she has to come back because she has no money. She needs your money.

She might have lost that job... or she did not tell you the truth about it.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

If she loved you, she would find the money for a ticket and return very quickly.

Why is changing? Well, she may perceive that you are closing the door. So, she is getting into action.

I wouldn't engage her. You ought to do the so-called 180 to distance yourself from her. You need to protect your emotional health.

Whatever happens, if she shows up, do not open your arms and hug her. She needs to exhibit unreserved passion and affection to even rate the time of day.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

OK, need more help. 

Had a long conversation on the phone with my wife, almost an hour and she did most of talking. I have everything in my head now, so better write this down here. I still don't feel happy with the result of the conversation.

1. She said her job is a contract where a huge bonus is paid at end of year. That is the way it works in that country, and I believe this to be true. She has meeting with the manager next week to put in a notice, but it has to be 3 months notice, which would be November anyway. She well tell me of result.

2. She wants to come home, she emphasized a few things:

a. She wants a change in our routine, do different things, socialize more, more friends, cannot be the routine that we fell into. Like we fell into a rut. I agreed.

b. She wants to make the house HER OWN. Since I owned the home before our marriage started the style and furniture is not hers. I said we had already changed much in 10 years, but she wants to do much more. Money issue aside, I have no problem. Guys, isn't this what women love, to buy stuff for their house, etc. etc. She is a little freaky with having too much stuff and clutter in the house, garage and attic, which I find strange, but OK no problem. (But about my not liking this, remember she had told her friend that the house holds her and not me. This is one of the biggest problems I have, that she is fixated on being happy in a home and lifestyle and the fact I am there is not holding her). 


c. This is the big one. We talked about the sex. I asked her specifically how she felt about ME, if she wanted to try again 100%, and this is her response. She said it must be natural. Cannot be forced. She does not know HOW to bring the PASSION back. I had no answer. I myself have attraction for her and am ready for sex (see earlier posts about the vacation). How can you lose passion, and get it back? I said we must be together to be married, not apart. She agreed, but she said if she had not left in November last year, we would be divorced all ready.

d. Her job, she hated the people in her job. She is very happy in her job in her country. She said she wants to find the same here. This is positive. I keep telling her she can do whatever she wants to do. She strongly stated she cannot be happy just being at home as a housewife, she needs a career.


I am having a problem with c the sex and passion. OK, she is saying that she wants to come home and reawaken that. I kept asking in different ways if she is serious and it seems so. I have this skepticism in my heart since she had posted a profile on the dating site. But since she took it down, could she have made a bad mistake and regretted it? She said she loved me again, as always. This is the most difficult part about this. I'm on the brink of asking for a divorce and then we have this conversation. I think communication is important. I feel I can live with her oddities, hell nobody is perfect, but I am unbelievably concerned about the sex/passion thing. We have not had sex in 3 years. I don't know what the barrier is, she doesn't either. She is telling me that if she is HAPPY in her LIFE in her career, in her home, that the passion may come back. At least this is what I am getting from this. She emphasized she is scared she comes back and we go back to the same pattern of no change. I told her we must be positive and just make the changes! 

I really don't want to say this but will, that she did ask for a contribution of about a 1/4 of what I normally send for some medical bill there. I know you may think of the use/abuse again, but she maybe she needs the help. Also, I told her my financial situation, so I think she gets the picture. 


So, should I wait until December or give up on this? Maybe she can use part of that bonus to buy her plane ticket. I think I would insist. I am dealing with financial stresses here and cannot afford anyway. 

Again, very appreciative of all your responses.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sex is part of marriage. 

Not furniture, not careers. 

I would wait her return. 

MC and sex starts upon her return. This is taking care of the marriage. 

If she wants to find and new job and buy furniture so be it. Don't let that be a condition for working on the marriage.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Nothing has changed at all. She is just dealing you the same cards over and over in varying order. When you draw cards, you get more or less the same ones back again.

Don't give her money. Don't communicate with her. If she loves you and desires you she'll fly back and hop straight in bed.

As to all the shxt tests, refusing to do them is the way to pass. Do not reward unreasonable behavior with alterations of your non-existent social life.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

LongWalk said:


> Nothing has changed at all. She is just dealing you the same cards over and over in varying order. When you draw cards, you get more or less the same ones back again.
> 
> Don't give her money. Don't communicate with her. If she loves you and desires you she'll fly back and hop straight in bed.
> 
> As to all the shxt tests, refusing to do them is the way to pass. Do not reward unreasonable behavior with alterations of your non-existent social life.



Therein lies the problem, LW. 

If she desired him she'd already be there.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Let me get this straight... to summarize your big discussion:

a) you agree that to be married, you must be together... But, if she had not left you to spend the last year apart you'd now be... ummm, apart...? You'd be divorced. So you would not have had sex, AND you would not have been sending her money... Hmmm, which of these were true anyway? And which would YOU have preferred...?

b) She wants to come back and make your house totally hers now, while she tries to decide if she can re-kindle her desire for you.... what if instead she came back and re-kindled her desire for you, while you tried to decide if you'd allow her to re-do your home? Better yet, what happens to YOUR home that she will make 'hers' when she discovers she can't find that desire, can't find a way to get over her inner hurdle? 

c) She's due for a big bonus, but wants you to send her money for a medical bill... how about she gets on a deferred payment plan, and pays that bill off herself with her big bonus? After all, if she hadn't left you a year ago, she'd have to pay it off herself anyway...

d) She wants to come back so that she can socialize more, make more friends, and go out with more other people, and definitely be out of the house (that she will make 'her own') to pursue a work-life* apart from you... but not really so much to do what you asked, focusing on you and her being together... and I am guessing the dating profile/emailed pictures to other guys didn't exactly come up.

Yes, I can see exactly why you will throw your arms open and welcome her back.

Tell us, did ANYTHING about YOUR happiness, needs, or wants come into this discussion?

You have said the "plan" had always been for her to return in December. Why does it feel now like that's not nearly a foregone conclusion, but is you essentially begging her to come, and her setting conditions to do so?

What if you listed your demands, in return? Better yet, what if you said no to ANY of her list of demands, and acted, ummm I dunno -- like her equal, her partner who's opinion matters...? What then?

I dunno man, I know you want this to work out, but at what price to your manhood? I'm all for giving it a try, I really am. But to have conditions put on you before she's lifted a finger to try at your marriage, when you have done nothing wrong -- and she has -- it just feels all one way, and like it really is time to man the f*** up. 

This is gonna hurt.

(* please don't think I am suggesting I am against her working!)


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

a) Yes, the only difference between what would have happened and did happen is we are still married (technically)

b) Um yes, she refers to it as her house, not OUR house. But, I get what she is saying that the house feels like someone else's. This is a woman thing, can one of the female board members reply about this. Reason being, this is not the first woman I have been that has either wanted to redo the house or sell it and create something new together.

c) Right, bonus isn't until December. I did not say I would send any money. I told her about my bills. 

d) No focus on changing the pattern of our marriage before. On the profile if it is closed after a week I think she regrets doing, but any more evidence of that kind of activity from now on would be the end. 

How did you know about the focus on her happiness and not mine? It was all focused on her happiness, not mine. Her therapist said she was childish, but should it be also self-centered? The one positive thing she did say is she wants the sex and passion back, but doesn't know how to get it back. So she says lets just change the things that made her "sad" before like her job and the house and then she feels happy, not depressed and then she may have desire for sex. I know that depression can have a side effect = don't want sex. 

the December return had been set since a few months ago, even before the vacation. She is not making it sound like the changes are preconditions, only what she wants different when she comes back. She stated that it will be changing (wasn't in form of question). 

Demands. The only demand I made was to come back now, and she said no. (that was from the call a week ago). Reasons given finish contract. If she leaves without and breaks contract, she loses the year end bonus. 

By the way, she also mentioned once or twice, asking if I would "wait" for her. Hmmm, what is this about. You mean wait and don't file divorce and move on. How can she know I am considering that? Strange she mentioned wait in the other conversation too. The way she is framing all of this, if I let her independently decorate the house to her desires (aside from my man toys and computer/study room which is mine) this will contribute to her happiness. She is making it sound like the unhappiness is what made her leave. The house was just one thing, it was also here crappy job. I told her when she comes back to get a different one that she really enjoys. 

Conditions, they really didn't sound like conditions, it was more like "this is the way it will be". I really don't care about the redecorating house thing at all. I am concerned about the partnership, intimacy, sex part, that is what is important to me. I don't care what color the sofa is. 

She also stressed her family and friends in her country. If this does work out, I think we may need to move to her county, but I would only do that once we heal the marriage here. It would be something she could look forward to for future. Sometimes I think I am that FNG person you all talk about. 

Behind all of this, I am really trying hard to reconcile this as I want to honor my marriage vows "till death do us part". I view marriage as a religious thing too, not just a civil union. 

But you raise good point about making some of my own demands. I would need to think on it, but for one we need to communicate better, but that is a demand for both of us we should be placing on each other. If you are unhappy about something, tell me. If we have to fight, OK, better than harboring it and creating an issue.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Nothing has changed at all. She is just dealing you the same cards over and over in varying order. When you draw cards, you get more or less the same ones back again.
> 
> Don't give her money. Don't communicate with her. If she loves you and desires you she'll fly back and hop straight in bed.
> 
> As to all the shxt tests, refusing to do them is the way to pass. Do not reward unreasonable behavior with alterations of your non-existent social life.


Before I even posted this I thought similar about it is the same story, but with more detail and power behind it. The only positive is she said she wants the passion back with me. I asked more than once, focused on me, do you want that with me. She said yes. 

Well if I don't communicate with her, she will think something is up or wrong. Day before last I was busy and I did not answer and text or calls and today she said " you never answer". I had a reason, I was busy, don't always look at my phone or can't answer for a variety of reasons.

Social liife, for me i seem more social than when we were together. I am making friends on my own. I still maintain contact and go to parties with our mutual friends. I have made friends with some guys that have girlfriends and fiance and i want to do a double date hang out thing and of course, my wife is not here. She needs to get back and then we can do this. I want to socialize too, not just my wife. There is also something messed up, I do not feel this but my wife does. We tried to have children and can't it seems. She doesn't like to hang out much with our married friends with children as it makes her sad. I feel no such sadness. (I do want children). So I said we should hang out more with single friends or couples without children.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> a) Yes, the only difference between what would have happened and did happen is we are still married (technically)
> 
> b) Um yes, she refers to it as her house, not OUR house. But, I get what she is saying that the house feels like someone else's. This is a woman thing, can one of the female board members reply about this. Reason being, this is not the first woman I have been that has either wanted to redo the house or sell it and create something new together.


Yes it’s a woman thing. Most women have to turn the house into their house. I guess it’s a nesting thing. 
The thing that bothers me about your wife is that this is her focus. Fixing the marriage should be the focus. Going to a sex therapist and getting that part of your life together should be the focus. Instead it’s at the end of the list of all the things she wants.



GreenLantern said:


> c) Right, bonus isn't until December. I did not say I would send any money. I told her about my bills.


Good. Don’t send her any $$. Until you are back together let her fend for herself. Why is the assumption that you have to send her $$. Why not her send you $$?



GreenLantern said:


> d) No focus on changing the pattern of our marriage before. On the profile if it is closed after a week I think she regrets doing, but any more evidence of that kind of activity from now on would be the end.


good



GreenLantern said:


> How did you know about the focus on her happiness and not mine? It was all focused on her happiness, not mine. Her therapist said she was childish, but should it be also self-centered?


Her therapist said that she is childish. This means that she is also self-centered. Children are self-centered by nature. It’s not until people are older that they start putting the needs of others first. That’s when spouses and children become important.



GreenLantern said:


> The one positive thing she did say is she wants the sex and passion back, but doesn't know how to get it back. So she says lets just change the things that made her "sad" before like her job and the house and then she feels happy, not depressed and then she may have desire for sex. I know that depression can have a side effect = don't want sex.


There are ways to get it back. A good marriage counselor who is a sex therapist can guide the two of you in this. Plus the book “His Needs, Her Needs” can give you info on how to improve the rest of the relationship. It’s very doable if BOTH parties are willing to work on rebuilding the passion and sexual intimacy.

If you are considering trying to fix the marriage, why not write her and tell her that you are pleased that she’s willing to work on getting your sex life back. So you are going to line up a marriage counselor who is also a sex therapist so that the two of you can work on rebuilding every aspect of your marriage. This way you two can get started as soon as she gets back. 

See how she replies to this as it assumes that there will be sex almost as soon as she gets back.



GreenLantern said:


> By the way, she also mentioned once or twice, asking if I would "wait" for her. Hmmm, what is this about. You mean wait and don't file divorce and move on. How can she know I am considering that? Strange she mentioned wait in the other conversation too.


You have asked her at least twice to come back now. She can tell that you are getting ready to give up.



GreenLantern said:


> Conditions, they really didn't sound like conditions, it was more like "this is the way it will be". I really don't care about the redecorating house thing at all. I am concerned about the partnership, intimacy, sex part, that is what is important to me. I don't care what color the sofa is.


Write her some emails saying that the conversation was not long enough to talk about everything. You two talked mostly about her needs/wants. So this email it to talk about your needs and wants. Then tell her that you need her to commit to being a full partner with all that means in intimacy, sex, spending a lot of time together. Let her know what you expect, want and need.



GreenLantern said:


> She also stressed her family and friends in her country. If this does work out, I think we may need to move to her county, but I would only do that once we heal the marriage here. It would be something she could look forward to for future. Sometimes I think I am that FNG person you all talk about.


It’s time that you start being very clear about what your needs are and that you her to take them seriously. No moving to her country until your relationship has been healed for a few years.. and until you feel that a move will not jeopardize it.


GreenLantern said:


> Behind all of this, I am really trying hard to reconcile this as I want to honor my marriage vows "till death do us part". I view marriage as a religious thing too, not just a civil union.





GreenLantern said:


> But you raise good point about making some of my own demands. I would need to think on it, but for one we need to communicate better, but that is a demand for both of us we should be placing on each other. If you are unhappy about something, tell me. If we have to fight, OK, better than harboring it and creating an issue.


Instead of waiting for email, start writing her about all of this. It allows for more communications.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Before I even posted this I thought similar about it is the same story, but with more detail and power behind it. The only positive is she said she wants the passion back with me. I asked more than once, focused on me, do you want that with me. She said yes.
> 
> Well if I don't communicate with her, she will think something is up or wrong. Day before last I was busy and I did not answer and text or calls and today she said " you never answer". I had a reason, I was busy, don't always look at my phone or can't answer for a variety of reasons.
> 
> Social liife, for me i seem more social than when we were together. I am making friends on my own. I still maintain contact and go to parties with our mutual friends. I have made friends with some guys that have girlfriends and fiance and i want to do a double date hang out thing and of course, my wife is not here. She needs to get back and then we can do this. I want to socialize too, not just my wife. There is also something messed up, I do not feel this but my wife does. We tried to have children and can't it seems. She doesn't like to hang out much with our married friends with children as it makes her sad. I feel no such sadness. (I do want children). So I said we should hang out more with single friends or couples without children.


Have you both had tests done to determine if there is a problem?

Also, having children is a really bad idea with the way your marriage is now. So you will have to wait until things are fixed. If they are not fixed then you can decide to leave if you want.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Have you ever considered the possibility that the lack of sex for 2 years and her sudden desire to 'fix' herself back in her home country is because she had connected/reconnected with someone from her home country, and she left to go pursue a relationship with him while keeping you as a back-up plan?

And the reason she 'couldn't' have sex with you on the vacation was she was being loyal to him?....with her jealousy/possessiveness due to a potential threat to her Plan B (YOU)?

Then she returned home, and her POSOM was upset she went to see you so broke it off with her?

Her response was to create a dating profile to find another replacement until she 'returned' to you in December?

But she didn't like her choices (maybe even tried them out but wasn't happy), so she now is suddenly sad and wants to return home soon, or at least make sure you stay put by telling you so, because she can sense your growing frustration...so she asks you to 'wait' for her while she makes noises about how she is trying to rush back? 

I think you are afraid to find out what's really been going on with her (heck, you've known about the dating site for ages and have never confronted her)....I think this is because you are terrified of losing her, even though I don't see that she has been doing or giving much for you for a LONG time.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I'd tell her to stay there.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Agreed. Gus has it right this time in very few words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern,

Has your wife been sending you pictures of herself all this time? I not when did she send them and when not?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Yes it’s a woman thing. Most women have to turn the house into their house. I guess it’s a nesting thing.
> The thing that bothers me about your wife is that this is her focus. Fixing the marriage should be the focus. Going to a sex therapist and getting that part of your life together should be the focus. Instead it’s at the end of the list of all the things she wants.


Thank you! I believe your woman's voice is helping me to understand these perspectives. Making our house into the nest is fine for me, this is not a problem. 




EleGirl said:


> There are ways to get it back. A good marriage counselor who is a sex therapist can guide the two of you in this. Plus the book “His Needs, Her Needs” can give you info on how to improve the rest of the relationship. It’s very doable if BOTH parties are willing to work on rebuilding the passion and sexual intimacy.
> 
> If you are considering trying to fix the marriage, why not write her and tell her that you are pleased that she’s willing to work on getting your sex life back. So you are going to line up a marriage counselor who is also a sex therapist so that the two of you can work on rebuilding every aspect of your marriage. This way you two can get started as soon as she gets back.
> 
> See how she replies to this as it assumes that there will be sex almost as soon as she gets back.


I believe we need to get the passion back into our marriage. She said she wants that, but for some reason, we don't have sex and she mentioned passion specifically on our phone call the other day.

I am reading Deepak Chopra's "Path of Love" and I finished chapter 6 on passion. What is very revealing to me is that passion emanates from the Self. The reason that there is a lack of passion is my wife is blocking it somehow. She needs to find out WHAT is blocking it. That is what Deepak says. He also said that married couples who have lost passion must communicate each of their desires to their partner which will reignite this passion. So in essence, his point is that my wife is willfully blocking the passion. He also wrote that a change can spark passion. If my wife and gets a job she loves, or as she states makes the house her nest, that change may ignite passion again. Another thing I read in an earlier chapter is in romance, we must be spiritual and open to acts of love. For example, any affection should be responded to and nurtured. As I was reading this, he made an example of husband kissing wife and she then turns away and goes to sleep. Happened to me on the vacation. I think my wife needs to read this book with an open mind. 

From our phone call too, it seems my wife thinks going to a marriage counselor would be unnatural, that this must come back naturally. Well, it has been like this for 3 years, I think waiting for natural will not work. We need to go to the counselor/sex therapist. At a minimum, we need to find out why the passion is being blocked. 




EleGirl said:


> Write her some emails saying that the conversation was not long enough to talk about everything. You two talked mostly about her needs/wants. So this email it to talk about your needs and wants. Then tell her that you need her to commit to being a full partner with all that means in intimacy, sex, spending a lot of time together. Let her know what you expect, want and need.
> 
> 
> It’s time that you start being very clear about what your needs are and that you her to take them seriously. No moving to her country until your relationship has been healed for a few years.. and until you feel that a move will not jeopardize it.
> ...


Yes, I am thinking about writing things down that I want from her. She has focused on what she wants, I need to do the same. I feel overall that I am neglected in the marriage. All of the support and love is one-sided. This is no good.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> Have you ever considered the possibility that the lack of sex for 2 years and her sudden desire to 'fix' herself back in her home country is because she had connected/reconnected with someone from her home country, and she left to go pursue a relationship with him while keeping you as a back-up plan?
> 
> And the reason she 'couldn't' have sex with you on the vacation was she was being loyal to him?....with her jealousy/possessiveness due to a potential threat to her Plan B (YOU)?
> 
> ...


No I am not terrified of losing her, but my patience for the separation is at and end. 

No, I don't believe there is anyone else. True, you can't know for sure, but I am aware of a communication after the vacation that leads me to believe she wanted to respark our intimate relationship (sex) on vacation and she could not for whatever reason. I believe this is mental, that she is blocking the passion (see my post just above to ElleGirl). 

I understand your point and others on me being Plan B, but all indications are that she is just is happier in her country due to family and a better job she loves. This is not related to me or any other man, it is her. She also said that she is just happier, not that she is happy.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> I'd tell her to stay there.


Why would you do that? What would be the justification?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> GreenLantern,
> 
> Has your wife been sending you pictures of herself all this time? I not when did she send them and when not?


Sorry I did not get a notification that people were replying to this thread and have not been on the forum for a few days.

She was much more communicative the month or so before the vacation on chat. She rarely sent pictures, but did send a few a week or so before she came home for the vacation.

Since returning, I sent her photos of me, she has sent no photos. She had resumed chatting similar to before the vacation, but once I gave my ultimatum to come home around July 31, for the last 3 weeks she has been very quiet, not sending hardly any text messages. No photos. We have talked on the phone twice, last time for a good while. 

Why do you ask? Does this mean anything?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I forgot to mention one item in my wife's plan for returning in December. She would like my mother-in-law to come visit initially to help with the house and things. Do you all think this would be a barrier to rebuilding my relationship with my wife having mom around for a month or two? I personally love her and think she is very nice, but is this a positive for fixing my marriage or will it create issues?


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL,

What I posted was just to get you to consider OTHER possibilities to what has truly been going on with your W.

The dating site, communications, and pic exchange with other men are HUGE red flags for you as to what's going on with her, but you will not even confront her about them.

She is using you as a Plan B and for financial support.

That is why Gus said he would tell her to stay there.

However, you seem determined to wear denial goggles rather than delve into the actions of your W...you give her every benefit of the doubt and refuse to investigate...and you won't even confront huge red flags about her behavior.

You have mentioned that family and friends have said similar things to you.

It is time to step up and finally get to the bottom of why she denied you sex, why she truly went home, and what exactly has she been doing over there.

Reading books about how you lacked passion in your M is not going to fix these problems....that will be something to worry about after you find out what she's really been up to and if you then decide to stay and try to reconcile your M.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> GL,
> 
> What I posted was just to get you to consider OTHER possibilities to what has truly been going on with your W.
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks for your help. I have not said anything about the dating site and email because she deleted her profile after only 1 week having it up. I think she changed her mind or realized what she was doing was wrong on her own. If I have any evidence of more of this, yes, there will be a confrontation in the form of divorce papers. She has said she wants to reconcile, bring the passion back, so if she holds true to this promise, I will hold on. If I find that she is not being honest and reverts to any infidelity, I am done. Why do you think this approach is being in denial? I know what it may look like from the outside, but everyone here is not in the relationship, it is just me and her. Just trying to understand your points.  

She explained why she went back to her country, and now I am stating she must come home and rebuild our relationship. December is the latest I will wait. And yes, the book will be of great help, but she must be physically present for it to work. 

By the way, i just drafted a list of things I want from her in our marriage to include communication, intimacy and sex, accept the whole me including my faults (don't try to change me), spend time together, financial responsibility (pay for your own stuff if you are working). I can send and see her reaction.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Thank you! I believe your woman's voice is helping me to understand these perspectives. Making our house into the nest is fine for me, this is not a problem.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It sounds like an interesting book.
There is a saying that, while simplistic, makes a good book. 
“Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place.” [Billy Crystal]

For women the reason is passion. I don’t think that your wife is willfully blocking passion. I think that she no longer feels passion for you. While passion might stem from self. We are chemical engines. Our emotions are controlled by chemicals that flow through our brains. The chemical/hormone that controls passion, sexual desire and bonding is Oxytocin. The body produces it when a couple is in love. If the couple does not maintain enough intimacy of all kinds, the levels of Oxytocin fall in the body and the bond/love/passion is broken. For women produce and need more Oxytocin then men do to maintain the passion/bond. That means that they need more emotional bonding/intimacy. That’s why women want a lot of non-sexual intimacy. It increases the production of Oxytocin in their bodies. Once a woman’s level of Oxytocin falls below some level she will no longer feel in-love. She will not want sex with her partner. She might not even want him to touch her. 

There are ways to get her Oxytocin levels back up. The advice given in “His Needs, Her Needs” goes a long way to repair this. Where Deepak Chopra's book talks about the topic philosophically, the HN-HN book talks about how to accomplish this in the real world.



GreenLantern said:


> From our phone call too, it seems my wife thinks going to a marriage counselor would be unnatural, that this must come back naturally. Well, it has been like this for 3 years, I think waiting for natural will not work. We need to go to the counselor/sex therapist. At a minimum, we need to find out why the passion is being blocked.


I agree with you. It’s never going to come back unless the two of you take extra ordinary measure to fix it. And both of you have to be willing to do the work. You could do it by using books like “His Needs, Her Needs” and your guide. Or you can do it by going to a good MC. Using both methods is best.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> I forgot to mention one item in my wife's plan for returning in December. She would like my mother-in-law to come visit initially to help with the house and things. Do you all think this would be a barrier to rebuilding my relationship with my wife having mom around for a month or two? I personally love her and think she is very nice, but is this a positive for fixing my marriage or will it create issues?


Her wanting to bring her mother is a huge red flag. If she was returning to really fix your marriage she would come alone. Bringing her mother means that everything but your marriage is her concern.

When I am going into a situation where I am avoiding anything emotional, I bring a friend or one of my sisters with me. Before my mother passed away, I'd bring her along. It works like a charm.

Unless your wife is highly motivated to fix your relationship, having her mother there will be a huge distraction. After a month or two of her mother being there a new pattern will be set and it will be just about impossible to get your wife to agree to work on the marriage.

Plus, she will be in the USA. She can then file for divorce, get you for alimony, take your house, etc. I could be wrong but this would be harder for her to do if she stays in China.

To me, this would be the last straw. Your wife is ok with living with you, having a house and having you support her. She is not ok with having sex with you and being a real wife.

Seriously, tell her to not come back. You deserve so much more than what she is dishing out.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Why do you ask? Does this mean anything?


I'm a bit reluctant to say the following but I will. And you can ignore it.

The other day I was reading your thread and contemplating why a woman would leave her husband to a place that she knows he will not be able to come see her... for the period of about 1 year.

The thought that popped into my mind is that historically women did this, single women and married women. There was one reason. To hide a pregnancy that was not his child.

The next thought I had was wondering if she had been sending you any photos all the time she was there.

I know it sounds crazy and like its now just going nuts thinking up nonsenses. 

But it would explain the need for her to go. The emotional state that she talks about when she says she's in counseling. Her reluctance to leave there. And it would explain her lack of sexual desire for you before she left and on your vacation.

Has she mentioned a new baby nephew or niece? 

Ok now you can call me crazy. :scratchhead:


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> It sounds like an interesting book.
> There is a saying that, while simplistic, makes a good book.
> “Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place.” [Billy Crystal]


LOL That is a funny line from Billy Crystal, but I expect is true for the most part of men and women. 

This is why I believe that from my perspective, it is more of my wife and not me with the sex. I know it takes two, and she doesn't want to feel guilt but it is her that is blocking not me. I think I sensed the slow death of our intimacy over the last few years. It was as if she withdrew and I sensed it and it snowballed. 



EleGirl said:


> For women the reason is passion. I don’t think that your wife is willfully blocking passion. I think that she no longer feels passion for you. While passion might stem from self. We are chemical engines. Our emotions are controlled by chemicals that flow through our brains. The chemical/hormone that controls passion, sexual desire and bonding is Oxytocin. The body produces it when a couple is in love. If the couple does not maintain enough intimacy of all kinds, the levels of Oxytocin fall in the body and the bond/love/passion is broken. For women produce and need more Oxytocin then men do to maintain the passion/bond. That means that they need more emotional bonding/intimacy. That’s why women want a lot of non-sexual intimacy. It increases the production of Oxytocin in their bodies. Once a woman’s level of Oxytocin falls below some level she will no longer feel in-love. She will not want sex with her partner. She might not even want him to touch her.
> 
> There are ways to get her Oxytocin levels back up. The advice given in “His Needs, Her Needs” goes a long way to repair this. Where Deepak Chopra's book talks about the topic philosophically, the HN-HN book talks about how to accomplish this in the real world.


Actually, I believe Deepak Chopra is saying love is Spiritual, and you may say this is philosophical, but he is contending that passion is mentally blocked and has nothing to do with chemicals or modern day psychology. He blasts Freud throughout the book. On the positive, my wife is spiritual, even more than me and loves Yoga, so this may be a good path to follow. I want to introduce the book to her.

And to add, on the vacation last month there was some intimacy such as hand holding and kissing, just no sex. So maybe her Oxytocin needs a little boost and then sex will return. 




EleGirl said:


> I agree with you. It’s never going to come back unless the two of you take extra ordinary measure to fix it. And both of you have to be willing to do the work. You could do it by using books like “His Needs, Her Needs” and your guide. Or you can do it by going to a good MC. Using both methods is best.


Yes, I think it will take a full commitment on both our parts to bring the intimacy back. Saying my wife has no passion for me hurts, and I am trying to not throw in the towel here. There has been a history of factors that may have contributed to the gradual loss of intimacy, including me being too busy not showing her the time and attention she needs, but I recognized this and want to change. The important thing is to get her back here.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Her wanting to bring her mother is a huge red flag. If she was returning to really fix your marriage she would come alone. Bringing her mother means that everything but your marriage is her concern.
> 
> When I am going into a situation where I am avoiding anything emotional, I bring a friend or one of my sisters with me. Before my mother passed away, I'd bring her along. It works like a charm.
> 
> ...


Wow, you think this is another red flag? OK, my mother-in-law visited a few years ago, actually it was around the time we were having some issues with our marriage. I remember because it was literally months after the sex stopped. I agree with you that having her mother here would be a distraction as we should be concentrating on fixing our marriage first. Maybe after things are back on track, she could visit for a time. But now, it does not seem to be that time.

I did draft a letter/email listing the things I want from her for our marriage, changes and improvements. I could state that I want her to come home alone. I know she may react badly, and not understand it. I am not being selfish, I think it is a matter of priorities. I am with you, the #1 Priority should be the marriage. I keep adding thoughts... OK she may want her mom here to lend support because she is afraid to go back into depression. Is this wrong thinking? Since you are a woman and have done this yourself, sounds like having her mom is a crutch to not address the emotional issues. Under the same roof, how can we be completely emotional and open? I don't think that would happen. When her mom was here last time, we had no sex. 


She is not from China. lol Yes, that is a fear if I wish to make it so, she could be preparing a life without me, but that would be dishonest on her part. It sounds like you are now advising I file for divorce now while she is setup in her country? Did this change your mind?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> I'm a bit reluctant to say the following but I will. And you can ignore it.
> 
> The other day I was reading your thread and contemplating why a woman would leave her husband to a place that she knows he will not be able to come see her... for the period of about 1 year.
> 
> ...


That is out there! Theoretically it is possible, but no mention of a new nephew. She has been living in an apartment with a female acquantance all this time. She was gone 8 months. She was here 2 months before that Sept and October 2013, but before that was in her country about 3 months before that. 

I don't believe it. That would be incredible. I have no warning signs to indicate that. That would be a killer if true though.

One other thing.... she was very careful not to post any pictures on the Internet of our vacation where we are in the picture together. Besides being hurtful, it could indicate that she does not want SOMEONE seeing it, but again I have no evidence of any infidelity aside from a 1 week dating profile since deleted and 2 emails with no follow-up.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL,

The reason I use the term denial is because all of your responses to these red flags/issues is 'I think that...."

For example, in your last response to me your said you haven't confronted on the dating site and exchanges because she took the profile down and you THINK it means she changed her mind.

You are not finding out facts on ANY of the potential red flags or issues going back to the halt of sex.

You are just having an argument with yourself in your own mind about what it all means, and your mind is always giving her the benefit of the doubt, even when posters here and people in your real life are telling you it MIGHT be different (we don't know either...we are just telling you to confront and find out FACTS)


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> GL,
> 
> The reason I use the term denial is because all of your responses to these red flags/issues is 'I think that...."
> 
> ...


Hi, thanks again, really not trying to argue with anyone. OK, my relatives questions why she has been in her country for 9 months and before here being there, we sleep in separate bedrooms. My father thought that was nuts.

OK, I am trying to summarize red flags

1) Dating web site
2) emailing and sending photos to men
3) No pictures of us online
4) Wanting to bring mom back when she returns

Did I miss any?


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Hi, thanks again, really not trying to argue with anyone. OK, my relatives questions why she has been in her country for 9 months and before here being there, we sleep in separate bedrooms. My father thought that was nuts.
> 
> OK, I am trying to summarize red flags
> 
> ...


Wow. Really? How about:
5) Hiding 1, 2, and 3 above from you
6) "Needing" to be apart from you for a year
7) Being conveniently "too sick" or just plain unavailable to talk to you at times
8) No sex in the marriage for how long??? 
9) Messages you intercepted about her not being held to the marriage by you, but only by the house
10) No sex when you DID get together on vacation
11) Her words: If we had not been apart for the past year, we would have been divorced by now
12) Wanting to work on her "depression" without you in her life (is she depressed about YOU, or in general?)
13) The additive effect of 1 through 12.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL,

I think you do need to go back through old emails and phone bills if possible to find out if there was another reason for her going home to 'fix' her issues...you yourself even commented that you couldn't see why a counselor here couldn't do what her's there was.

Was there another reason?

Another man?

A hidden pregnancy as Elegirl mentioned?

But frankly, I think the first place to start is confronting her on the dating site and what she has been up to with other men since she's been gone.

Why she left may end up being a moot point if it turns out that her recent behavior has drifted into active cheating, which you say is a deal breaker.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> LOL That is a funny line from Billy Crystal, but I expect is true for the most part of men and women.
> 
> This is why I believe that from my perspective, it is more of my wife and not me with the sex. I know it takes two, and she doesn't want to feel guilt but it is her that is blocking not me. I think I sensed the slow death of our intimacy over the last few years. It was as if she withdrew and I sensed it and it snowballed.
> 
> ...


I like Chopra. But he presents only one side of things.

The bit about Oxytocin has been proven. They can give a person Oxytocin supplements and it strongly influences the passion/in-love feelings.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> *She is not from China. *lol Yes, that is a fear if I wish to make it so, she could be preparing a life without me, but that would be dishonest on her part. It sounds like you are now advising I file for divorce now while she is setup in her country? Did this change your mind?


Now why did I think she was in China? :scratchhead: Oh well, I did not go back and check out where she is if you even ever mentioned it.

Yes, the more you tell us what she is saying, the more I think your marriage does not have a chance.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> That is out there! Theoretically it is possible, but no mention of a new nephew. She has been living in an apartment with a female acquantance all this time. She was gone 8 months. She was here 2 months before that Sept and October 2013, but before that was in her country about 3 months before that.
> 
> I don't believe it. That would be incredible. I have no warning signs to indicate that. That would be a killer if true though.


Like I said... call me crazy.. 



GreenLantern said:


> One other thing.... she was very careful not to post any pictures on the Internet of our vacation where we are in the picture together. Besides being hurtful, it could indicate that she does not want SOMEONE seeing it, but again I have no evidence of any infidelity aside from a 1 week dating profile since deleted and 2 emails with no follow-up.


Her not posting pictures of you and her from the vacation is troublesome. Clearly there is someone who she does not want to know that she was on vacation with you. Have you posted any pictures of the two of you on vacation?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Hi, thanks again, really not trying to argue with anyone. OK, my relatives questions why she has been in her country for 9 months and before here being there, we sleep in separate bedrooms. My father thought that was nuts.
> 
> OK, I am trying to summarize red flags
> 
> ...


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> Why she left may end up being a moot point if it turns out that her recent behavior has drifted into active cheating, which you say is a deal breaker.


Is there any way you can get a PI to check out some things where she lives?

Do you know for a fact that she has a job there?

Do you know for a fact that she is really in counseling?

Do you know for a fact where she is actually living and who actually lives with her?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I feel torn between acting from the brain or from the heart. I know that everyone has gone through these types of things before, so that is why I have asked for help, and I do appreciate your words. 

Based on the history, my brain tells me to bag it due to the number of issues we have had.

But from the heart, my intuitive reasoning wants to act from the spirit and how I feel. This may come across as giving my wife the benefit of the doubt. But also, it is a response to not caving into fears. Aren't many of the red flags really based out of fear? 

Maybe I am being influenced by my dominant side, which is intuitive. 

I am thinking at this point, everyone who has replied to me is on the side of divorce. I think it is unanimous now. EleGirl seemed to be more on the side of chance for reconcile, but I sense you are now in the majority opinion.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Like I said... call me crazy..
> 
> 
> 
> Her not posting pictures of you and her from the vacation is troublesome. Clearly there is someone who she does not want to know that she was on vacation with you. Have you posted any pictures of the two of you on vacation?


Of course, yes I have posted pictures of us together. Strangely her family usually likes the photos, but only a more distant cousin liked them. The closer family did not, hmmm why? I found that very odd.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL,

I am not telling you to 'instantly' D your wife.

I'm telling you to find out what the he** is going on.

Stop using your intuition to interpret the situation and get some FACTS.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Is there any way you can get a PI to check out some things where she lives?
> 
> Do you know for a fact that she has a job there?


No, her word. 



EleGirl said:


> Do you know for a fact that she is really in counseling?


No, her word. I do not know the doctor's name, but there is patient/doctor privilege. For 8 months of counseling, he sure is a terrible psychologist!



EleGirl said:


> Do you know for a fact where she is actually living and who actually lives with her?


I know the city. I do not have the address. I do not know the person who lives with her, other that she is a woman my wife does not like.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> I feel torn between acting from the brain or from the heart. I know that everyone has gone through these types of things before, so that is why I have asked for help, and I do appreciate your words.
> 
> Based on the history, my brain tells me to bag it due to the number of issues we have had.
> 
> But from the heart, my intuitive reasoning wants to act from the spirit and how I feel. This may come across as giving my wife the benefit of the doubt. But also, it is a response to not caving into fears. Aren't many of the red flags really based out of fear?


I think you mean to ask if your interpretation of them as red flags is based on fear.

We here on TAM are do not share your emotional attachment to your wife so we do not have fears related to this. We have descriptions of her words and actions through you. The actions are based on their real feelings/beliefs/thoughts. When words do not match a person’s actions, believe their actions. People can say anything. When their word and actions match, believe them both. 

Your wife’s actions do not match any profession of love.

Most of her words show that she will not share her inner thoughts and feelings with you. This means that she has shut you out. It’s hard to overcome if she were willing. But she’s told you that she is not willing to really work on fixing your marriage. She has no intention of ever having sex with you again.




GreenLantern said:


> Maybe I am being influenced by my dominant side, which is intuitive.


If your intuition is that she loves you and all this can be fixed, why do you have doubts? I’m going to suggest that the doubts are your real intuition. The hope is.. well hope coming from your love for her.


GreenLantern said:


> I am thinking at this point, everyone who has replied to me is on the side of divorce. I think it is unanimous now. EleGirl seemed to be more on the side of chance for reconcile, but I sense you are now in the majority opinion.


I believe that in marriage reconciliation should always be the first thing we try. But it takes 2 to reconcile. Your wife shows no real desire to reconcile anything except to live a sexless marriage and separate live while under the same roof. You cannot fix a marriage all on your own.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Of course, yes I have posted pictures of us together. Strangely her family usually likes the photos, but only a more distant cousin liked them. The closer family did not, hmmm why? I found that very odd.


Try something if you have not already done this. 

Use a picture of the two of you together as your profile picture and/or Facebook page banner. This way the whole world and see it.

You can even add to it some text about the great vacation the two of you had together.

See what kind of reactions you get from that.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> No, her word.


Did your wife give you the name of the company she is working for?




GreenLantern said:


> No, her word. I do not know the doctor's name, but there is patient/doctor privilege. For 8 months of counseling, he sure is a terrible psychologist!


He’s a terrible psychologist or she’s not really going to one. It could be a story she is telling you to cover for her being there.



GreenLantern said:


> I know the city. I do not have the address. I do not know the person who lives with her, other that she is a woman my wife does not like.


Have you talked to this woman? Do you really know for a fact that she is living with this woman?

So basically you have no real idea what you wife has or has not been doing this last many months.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You assume that the dating site is a recent development. She may have had profiles on other sites. What makes you so confident that she has been celibate for all of the time you have been apart? She may have had more than one EA or PA during this long separation.

May I suggest that you go no contact with her and see what she does. As to mentioning the dating profile, don't. Never explain how you know things. Better to simply say: "I know that you have cheated."

When she questions you in search of proof simply reply: "I know."

The dating profile she posted, did it seek men in her homeland or the USA?

If she posted in her homeland, it might have been in the local language that you cannot read. Perhaps you should join the biggest singles in that country to see if you can find her there.

Did you have many LTR girlfriends prior to marriage? How does your wife's behavior compare to those women?

Green Lanter is a fixer. Are you one in real life?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> You assume that the dating site is a recent development. She may have had profiles on other sites. What makes you so confident that she has been celibate for all of the time you have been apart? She may have had more than one EA or PA during this long separation.
> 
> May I suggest that you go no contact with her and see what she does. As to mentioning the dating profile, don't. Never explain how you know things. Better to simply say: "I know that you have cheated."
> 
> ...


the dating site where her profile was deleted was from her country seeking men in her country. I speak the language, I setup a profile to check it. Yes, it is possible that she has joined other sites, I will never really know. Confronting her does not mean she will come clean on everything. She could go defensive. And, yes I agree not to specifically mention the dating site.

Actually when I consulted with a divorce lawyer, the lawyer advised I do not reveal this information to my wife. i assume the lawyer wants to use this as a smoking gun if things get difficult in a divorce. The lawyer is confident that I will keep my house 100% as I have supported her pretty much fully during the entire marriage. Of course, this is a lawyer speaking and wants me to file. I want whats best for me.

Of yes, I am a fixer! I will fight to the end before throwing in the towel.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> Did your wife give you the name of the company she is working for?


she mentioned the type of company and general location, but I do not know the name specifically. 



EleGirl said:


> He’s a terrible psychologist or she’s not really going to one. It could be a story she is telling you to cover for her being there.


She said he just listens to her. I have never been in therapy myself and from what I have heard it is useless if the doctor doesn't provide feedback at some point. Oh yes, he did say she was childish. 



EleGirl said:


> Have you talked to this woman? Do you really know for a fact that she is living with this woman?


No never talked to the roommate. No, don't know. 



EleGirl said:


> So basically you have no real idea what you wife has or has not been doing this last many months.


Correct, I am taking her on her word. You should trust your spouse to tell you truth. I know she has hidden the dating profile and she was shady about not posting pictures of us on vacation, but aside from that, I know of no lies being told here.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Don't treat you marriage like a business negotiation. Going over things point by point with her has only created a false notions that fixing most of the "needs" list could save your relationship. In truth there is only one thing that needs to happen: your wife must perceive the end your marriage is nigh. She will then act and action is all that matters.

The house, her mother, etc all of it is irrelevant at this point. If you were dating a woman for two years and couldn't get laid, would you continue inviting her to dinner and movies?

Right now you need to date other women. Even before you file for divorce, you can simply send your wife an email to say that you are filing for divorce and intend to live like a single again.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> GL,
> 
> I am not telling you to 'instantly' D your wife.
> 
> ...


GL, you said you think it is unanimous that we TAMers feel you should instantly file for D. I don't see that at all. I for one do not feel you should do anything to one extreme or the other -- not welcome her back with open arms, nor go straight to D, because like a broken record, like Dyokemm says above, like Elegirl keeps saying -- all you've got are her actions on one side, and your feelings egged on by SOME of her words SOMETIMES on the other. (sorry D & E if I am mis-speaking on your behalf!)

I think TAM is 50-50, but several of us are saying get FACTS instead of opinions, your feelings, and words from her -- and be open to hearing and seeing what those facts tell you, not blind to what they are "because you are married and you love her” and want to stick it out to the end.

Blind faith is wonderful when earned and deserved, but it is flat-out, plain old idiotic when there is this much cause for doubt and concern. As Elegirl said, we do not know her like you do. So we are not swayed by any emotional connection, and we only "know" what you tell us. We, in turn, are telling you in response that upon reading what we see as "facts", there is a whole lot to doubt about her actions, intentions, and plans regarding you and your so-called marriage. More than doubt, there's some smoke coming from the gun. What that exactly means we don't know, but we have very good educated guesses AND some not-so-crazy-sounding theories -- none of which result in "and you live happily ever after". 

I would dare say we all very much hope we are wrong, would love to be surprised that this all turns out truly positive. But I think we'd all be flabbergasted in surprise. That doesn't mean it can't happen, doesn't mean her mind is made up, doesn't mean it all can't be worked through and/or turned around to a positive outcome. But if you think you have simply hit a small bump in the marital road that needs to be accepted "because you love her", rugswept, and just moved past without some very, very serious communication, soul-searching, and changes then you're in for a very rude awakening ("IMHO!")

Let me ask you something: If she flew home to you tomorrow, said "I'm back, let's decorate, pay some bills for me please that I have racked up while living apart from you, and oh yeah let's work on our marriage; maybe we'll even have sex someday", without a doubt in my mind you'd take that and run with it, no questions asked. OK fine... months or even years from now, the first time she has another "bout of depression" and needs some space, or wants to return to her country to visit, alone... do you trust her? Think, man, think. With your head, then let your heart fill in the blanks - not the other way around.

Edit: and P.S. I have pondered Elegirl's baby theory, which I frankly dismissed at first, and I am finding it not so far-fetched the more I think about it and the less facts you seem to have that would refute it being possible... that's the point; without FACTS you and we know nothing for sure, and can rule out nothing for sure.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> Correct, I am taking her on her word. You should trust your spouse to tell you truth.


Frankly then maybe consider to stop asking for advice here, because ALL the unanimous advice is "Do NOT take her for her word"... she has already deceived you AND has told you under different logistical circumstances you'd already be divorced.

You're not listening. 

If anything, make her regain earning the right for you taking her at her word.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> Don't treat you marriage like a business negotiation. Going over things point by point with her has only created a false notions that fixing most of the "needs" list could save your relationship. In truth there is only one thing that needs to happen: your wife must perceive the end your marriage is nigh. She will then act and action is all that matters.
> 
> The house, her mother, etc all of it is irrelevant at this point. If you were dating a woman for two years and couldn't get laid, would you continue inviting her to dinner and movies?
> 
> Right now you need to date other women. Even before you file for divorce, you can simply send your wife an email to say that you are filing for divorce and intend to live like a single again.


I appreciate that your take on my situation is something like "shock into action". I know what you are saying that all of this is really words until true action is done. Certainly if I go to the extreme and file for divorce, she will most definitely act. I foresee three possibilities with that tactic.

1) She will realize I am serious and unwilling to live like this anymore. She will realize she must come home and strongly work to fix our marriage as #1 Priority (I know most here think this is the most unlikeliest of the potential results).

2) She will accept it and let go and decide to stay in her life in her country that she laid some groundwork for already.

3) She will fight the divorce in some way, such as work to the end of the year, get her bonus, hire a lawyer and try to make a case of 1/2 of everything. (I really am not about that, the only think I truly hate is that I would lose the house I slaved for and the fact I paid everything by myself and started paying all of her bills makes that a nasty pill to swallow).

Yes, also your option also sounds great and the path of least resistance to happiness. But if I chose this path, I am giving up my marriage.

Oh yes, of course nobody would date a new girlfriend for 2 years without sex (unless there are religious reasons), but this is a different situation. I have been married for 10 years and have taken vows. Filing for divorce is breaking those vows. Why in the past couple of decades has the divorce rate skyrocketed? People give up too soon. As for my marriage, I don't think I fit that category though. I think I may have held on too long.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> Blind faith is wonderful when earned and deserved, but it is flat-out, plain old idiotic when there is this much cause for doubt and concern. As Elegirl said, we do not know her like you do. So we are not swayed by any emotional connection, and we only "know" what you tell us. We, in turn, are telling you in response that upon reading what we see as "facts", there is a whole lot to doubt about her actions, intentions, and plans regarding you and your so-called marriage. More than doubt, there's some smoke coming from the gun. What that exactly means we don't know, but we have very good educated guesses AND some not-so-crazy-sounding theories -- none of which result in "and you live happily ever after".


I totally see your point. The difficulty is there is the lack of the emotional connection that I cannot really express. Some of the things spoken of are just speculation. But I am first to admit this is not normal behavior. It is not normal to go on like this indefinitely. But I have read other men had similar experiences with marriages where the passion leaves for whatever reason, yet it goes on and on. I'm just talking here, but it may be that I am living in the memory of my love for her and not what is happening now. Like I am trying to water a dead flower. But even today she messaged me and said "I love you!" So difficult this is. (I hear your response already --- Man Up!)




2xloser said:


> Let me ask you something: If she flew home to you tomorrow, said "I'm back, let's decorate, pay some bills for me please that I have racked up while living apart from you, and oh yeah let's work on our marriage; maybe we'll even have sex someday", without a doubt in my mind you'd take that and run with it, no questions asked.


Yes, but I would not pay any bills she racked up in her country. I also would tell her that if she wants renovations and remodeling, she must contribute her salary to it. I am no longer going to pay it all. That is one of my conditions for going on with our marriage. I also would stress our marriage must be #1 and I would be insistent on seeing a marriage counselor right away. If she says yes, and does them, it might work out. I'm not saying it will, but at least we will try one last time. 



2xloser said:


> OK fine... months or even years from now, the first time she has another "bout of depression" and needs some space, or wants to return to her country to visit, alone... do you trust her? Think, man, think. With your head, then let your heart fill in the blanks - not the other way around.


No, that will not wash. I would not allow her to do the run away thing again. 



2xloser said:


> Edit: and P.S. I have pondered Elegirl's baby theory, which I frankly dismissed at first, and I am finding it not so far-fetched the more I think about it and the less facts you seem to have that would refute it being possible... that's the point; without FACTS you and we know nothing for sure, and can rule out nothing for sure.


I don't see that as possible, and if it would be true very shocking and crazy bad. What kind of person would do that to another person. That would be totally heartless to hide that and make like you are going home to fix the marriage.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> No, that will not wash. I would not allow her to do the run away thing again.


I don't actually believe you know that to be true. Based on your approach, attitude, and current game plan, she doesn't either -- which was my point.




GreenLantern said:


> I don't see that as possible....
> What kind of person would do that to another person. That would be totally heartless to hide that and make like you are going home to fix the marriage.


Unlikely, yes -- but oh it *could* be true; that's just it. 

And the "type of person" to do something like that would be (a) desperate and afraid, (b) somewhat akin to the "type" who'd openly troll the internet for dates, and once in contact, send other men pics of herself while her husband waited for her in another country, working to pay her bills...?

You asked... just sayin'...


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> I don't actually believe you know that to be true. Based on your approach, attitude, and current game plan, she doesn't either -- which was my point.


Well, time to put foot down. When she left last November it was just supposed to be another trip and the reason had to do more with the health of a family member. Then it evolved to therapy, then more time, then contract job, then more time, so it just was extended and extended. But if she returns, maybe I should make clear you can't go off running away from your problems. 



2xloser said:


> Unlikely, yes -- but oh it *could* be true; that's just it.
> 
> And the "type of person" to do something like that would be (a) desperate and afraid, (b) somewhat akin to the "type" who'd openly troll the internet for dates, and once in contact, send other men pics of herself while her husband waited for her in another country, working to pay her bills...?
> 
> You asked... just sayin'...


Ouch! Yes, when you say it like that it does seem heartless. So what you are saying is, what the heck am I waiting for! I will say after shelling out a huge amount of cash for the vacation, seeing that dating web site profile stung.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

re: not giving up on your marriage
Marriage is not single simple state. This is what I did not understand when I married. Many people feel that marriage is an achievement like a diploma on the wall. But just because you have a degree in some subject, if you don't continue to stay current in your field, exercising your mind, your qualification may fade in reality. A doctor who hasn't practiced medicine for a decade is perhaps not a doctor anymore.

A marriage that is not cultivated in any sense, may not be a marriage. You do not sleep with your wife. You eat no meals together. There is no cuddling on the couch in front of the TV. Children do not call you daddy and mommy. Nothing that one associates with marriage exists in your relationship, besides the legal status.

When posters suggest that you file for divorce, they are urging you to see what is behind the door. To delay further wins you nothing. Waiting until December will simply allow more dust to gather.

Your wife writes "I love you" but she did not have sex with you on her last visit. 

Two courses of action:

1) Send her a box of chocolates and hang on
2) Send her divorce papers 

Of the two, which is more likely to change her feelings?


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"Of yes, I am a fixer! I will fight to the end before throwing in the towel."

GL,

While I admire determination and resolve a lot as general principles, it is important for you to realize that when you are dealing with a WW (or even a potential WW) this 'asset' can become a serious liability.

It will lead you to delay taking the strong actions and demands that MIGHT actually have a chance of saving your M because you will view those steps as surrendering or giving up on your M.

That is not the reality.

Strongly confronting red flags and bad behavior and demanding they end and your W start working to save the M are not surrender...they are actually the only moves to fight for your M.

You cannot 'nice' your W back into the M....I have never seen a thread on a M/Infidelity site where this tactic has worked to save a M....all I have ever seen it do is create false R attempts and lots of cake-eating by unremorseful WS's.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Patience:
> 
> A virtue if you're on the right road.
> 
> If you're on the wrong road, it's a waste of time.


This is still valid 7 months later.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

GreenLantern said:


> So what you are saying is, what the heck am I waiting for!


Well yeah, sort of. While I personally happen to believe she's long done with you, I am not advocating "divorce her immediately" -- because you simply don't yet know WHAT she is thinking, and clearly I don't have all the facts (but neither do you!). She originally went to her home country just for a brief visit?? And has since conned you into elongated that into a year-long separation while she took a job, established herself, got a roommate whom you've never spoken to and she conveniently 'doesn't like' (you sure it's a female?), entered therapy for her 'depression' with a doctor you don't even know for sure even exists (you never answered me - has she actually been diagnosed? on meds?), trolled websites for other men, found some and sent them pictures, but never posted pictures of you two together, has done virtually nothing to meet any single one of your needs, and even became unavailable to you and conveniently sick when it was time to actually talk...... ...you get my point?

While some posters here are advocating to end this charade now, and some are not so sure just yet, EVERY one is all for taking some form of strong, direct, real action immediately.

I'll ask you back -- what ARE you waiting for? It is more than the convenience of her planned return in December (which apparently wasn't even the plan when she first left to go 'home'!) Are you hoping to further investigate her from afar? Hoping or believing she just needed some time away to clear her head? Hoping a big moment of truth, a ray of light will shine down from the heavens and she will realize she really DOES want you...? Or is it that you are just afraid of what even you are already starting to believe may actually be true?

Do you think each day that goes by, she misses you more, gets more and more smitten with you, more desire for you -- or less?

I admire having some faith and patience, but I do not understand the passive "wait and hope" approach to what amounts to the rest of your life.

Your original post was "should I start dating?" No you shouldn't until you are clear with your wife where you two are headed, for your own moral compass check - but at least it was the one thought you had about looking after yourself.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

I hope GL is finally demanding some real answers from his WW on the red flags and making some non-negotiable demands on her returning to work on the M ASAP.

He needs to break this limbo by determining some real facts about what she's been up to and informing her he will not tolerate this behavior anymore.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

2xloser said:


> Unlikely, yes -- but oh it *could* be true; that's just it.
> 
> And the "type of person" to do something like that would be (a) desperate and afraid, (b) somewhat akin to the "type" who'd openly troll the internet for dates, and once in contact, send other men pics of herself while her husband waited for her in another country, working to pay her bills...?
> 
> You asked... just sayin'...


GL, the point of the baby question and a few others I've asked here is that as it turns out, you know very little about what you wife has been up to all this time. You don't even have the address where she is living. You think you know how she's living with but you really do not know. You think she has a job, but you do not know for sure.

I know that if I was away from a man I loved, he's have my address and all my contact info. He'd know where I worked and have been able to contact me at work. My life would be an open book and he'd be part of it, even long distance.

Do you even know how much she earns at this job she says she has? 

Now of course it's possible that she just thinks that cell phone and email is all the info that you two need, but it's more likely that she has purposely excluded you. And this raises the question of why.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi All, 

Been a few days or more, and I am not feeling well and I know why === indecision! 

I want to share this with you, even though I am getting very personal. I know this is my call, but it is possible that you can actually help me make the RIGHT decision.

OK here goes:


I wrote two letters. 

Letter #1 I call the New Deal which is giving a list of things I want/need from my wife including Marriage #1, sex, no mother at end of year, etc. etc.

Letter #2 Is telling my wife I do not believe she wants to be married to me anymore as our marriage is not a priority to her. In it I tell her I am filing for divorce. 

I am now torn as to what to do. I think not making a decision is worse than picking a path to take. Overall, I think the quick/cleaner path is the divorce as this whole thing is making me sick. But on the other hand, my positive side is saying the proper path is to at least send my wife my wants, tell her what I want and only after a poor reception to them, do I proceed with a divorce. 

I know I must decide now, like this weekend. Aside from a few messages back and forth, I have not communicated much with my wife at all. She said she really missed me and it would be nice to talk to me on Friday, but I did not reply. I also found in her email to a girl friend that she has many things in her head and has "decisions to make'. I can only speculate what those decisions are. (and I guess same for you all). No I am certain there is no baby down there! 

I even went so far as to write a pro/con as this is my way with things (I am a Capricorn) and think things through before making major decisions. Any Capricorns on the board will immediately identify! 

So here it is laid out:

Divorce Now 

PRO

- It has been much too long, too many bad feelings and history
- a move to finalize is a new beginning
- There are other wonderful and beautiful women out there (I need a positive force in my life)
- May have opportunity for having children and new family

CON

- Giving up on marriage and vows
- May lose my house, money and possessions (divorce costs and settlement) 
- Not going the final mile 

New Deal 

PRO

- Will be going last mile, if one more try in December still does not work, I can feel right in my mind I did everything possible
- Still need my wife to agree to what I want from our marriage (my "demands" which includes marriage #1 and 100% committed to working on it). If I send my letter and the response is not what I seek, then I can proceed to end the marriage. 
- Chance to get my wife back who I love 

CON

- Much stronger chance of losing my house because wife will return and be in strong position.
- There is a strong possibility that the last try will not work, which would be lost time, effort and money (including marriage counselor costs + all the costs of a divorce, etc) And I may need 2 years to wait for divorce finalized if she comes back.
- This is the BIG one: Can I trust her "word"? This is major concern as I believe I must be comfortable that her response is genuine. I also remember the email where she said the house and not me holds her. Her telephone communications to me have reinforced not disputed this! I think this is the hurtle. 

I know the decision is mine to make what to do. I don't understand why it is so hard for me to decide. Do you have any advice that may help me?

By the way, today, I happened to click a breakupstopper AD where a guy who claims to be sex therapist said he has a "Sexual Rubber Band Technique" as part of a "Respark the Romance" course that he says every single client has revitalized a marriage and make the wife initiate sex. Have you ever heard of this? If I decide to go with the "new deal" and get my wife home, I could try this course (I think it is online) and try it out on her. the course is for me alone, so she may feel it is "natural" because she does not know the technique I am using. The guy sounded like it was some type of psychological trigger to make women want sex all the time, like pheromones. Do you trust such things or is this fake? 

Thanks again!


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Do what you can live with after you've done it.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

"- Chance to get my wife back who I love "

For me that's the reason (and the only reason) to give it your best, last shot... my opinion, your next move is neither of your options, yet. 

Because what you haven't done is explained to YOURSELF -- much less to HER -- what "working on the marriage" actually means. If you are not going to START by putting the issues that you know about on the table, evaluating the response to those issues, then you're either rugsweeping a very bad situation that will rear it's ugly head later, OR maybe potentially making a mistake.

To me, the first action is confrontation, with both options or letters in your pocket. And then I'd act based on the confrontation result.

Personally I believe through the confrontation she'll beat you to the punch anyway, but that is why the communication is needed. Right now, all you're doing is guessing, semi-investigating from afar, and working yourself into a lather without her.

And if you somehow talk yourself into "can't do. the confrontation, because it's over the phone or whatever, then I can't understand how you can go to that next step instead.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> "- Chance to get my wife back who I love "
> 
> For me that's the reason (and the only reason) to give it your best, last shot... my opinion, your next move is neither of your options, yet.
> 
> ...


I think that the "New Deal" letter covers what needs to get onto the table. The dating profile was deleted within a week and suggests a reversal or change of mind. If I tell my wife what I need and want and she does not respond properly, I am getting my answer. The bottom line is she needs to come home to work on our marriage together actively. My lawyer also advised me not to tell her I know about the dating profile. The other questions will be answered in her reaction to the new deal. 

But at the moment I am on the fence.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Ceegee said:


> Do what you can live with after you've done it.


I can live with either choice. The difference between them is give up now, or try one more time in December. Of course there is no guarantee it will work, so the pessimist would say the choice is give up now or give up later. Pain either way, just different. The reason why i haven't thrown in the towel is my positive spirit, some crazy hope that love will triumph. Sorry if that sounds silly.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

If you give her the divorce letter, there is no turning back.

If you give her the needs letter you don't have to wait until December. You can see how she responds NOW. IF you don't like her response give her the divorce letter.

Part of the needs letter should be that the work to fix your marriage starts now. You can both read the book(s) and do the work needed. You can start that long distance so that she understands and the two of you are well on your way to working through things. If she starts saying to wait for her to get back.. you now she is not really willing to do the work.

Your needs letter needs to also let her know that you are disturbed that she has really shared very little about her life where she is. You need the address of the place she lives. You need the name and phone numbers for the place she works. Personally I'd ask to have her send you pay stubs so that you can verify. You need the name and contact info for her therapist so you can call and talk to them as a husband should be able to do. You need to know why she's in counseling. Basically one of your needs is that she be open and honest about what she's been doing there because you feel that she's been hiding things.

If you are going to give her the needs letter, put some real meat into it.

Just my thoughts


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL,

You still aren't doing anything but speculating in your own mind about what she has been up to, recently and going back to when she left to go home for a supposedly short visit.

Proof?

"The dating profile was deleted within a week and suggests a reversal or change of mind."

I would highlight the word 'suggests'....you still have not confronted her and learned a single FACT about what is really going on and has been since her decision to leave.

Instead, you keep snooping for tidbits of information and then using your 'intuition' to try to understand what they mean.

You are arguing circles inside your own head.

If you really have no intention of finding out the truth behind why she truly left, why she stopped having sex with you (including on your vacation meetup), why she created a dating profile and actually exchanged communications/pics with OM, and what she has actually been doing for the past year....then I see letter 2 is your best option to avoid being emotionally crushed in the future.

The only chance you have to fix this M is to confront her and get to the bottom of all the issues I just listed....but for whatever reason you do not want to do that.

Cut your losses and get out then.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Whatever you write, make it short, as it two sentences.

Dear wife,

I am tired of living a loveless, single life. Please make up your mind now.

Sincerely yours,

Green Lantern


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Here is an example from my own experience about what I mean and what you need to do.

My LTgf and I had been together 2 years...I was by her side through the excruciating death of her father from Lou Gehrig's disease...we were beginning to make plans for our wedding.

I thought all was fine.

My friend called me one Saturday morning and told me he saw my gf at a club the night before with a guy.

Now I could have sat around for days ruminating on all the possibilities of what it meant.

She had told me she was going out to dinner and maybe a drink with some girlfriends from her church that I knew well.

I could have sat there for days trying to figure out who this guy was...was he one of the other girls bf?...was he some guy from her church who tagged along?...a random club dude?

And I could have intuitively tried to figure out exactly WHAT she was doing with him, since my friend said they were just talking together at the bar for a long while...he saw them holding hands, touching each others arms, and kiss once, but hey that might have other explanations right?

Well the possible list for that would have been endless.

See, but I didn't spend days running circles in my head trying to figure it out...what I did was this.

I got off the phone with my friend and walked into the room where she was.

The convo went as follows:

M: So where did you end up going last night with the girls?

H: TGIF's

M: You didn't go to 'club'?

H: No...why?

M: Well "Tim" said he saw you there.

H: Oh...well we only walked in to have one drink..."Sally" was meeting her bf there and then the rest of us were going to leave.

M: So you weren't with some guy at the bar?

H: No...is that what "Tim" said?...he probably just saw me there when "Sally's" bf walked up and thought I was meeting him.

M: Well that's funny...he said you two were alone talking at the bar for about 20 min then walked further back into the club and he lost sight of you.

H: Well that didn't happen...he's either making things up or saw it wrong.

M: Fine, lets call him right now and figure this out.

A short silence...I pick up the phone and start dialing.

H: Stop....OK....one of my friends from work stopped by to hang out with us girls for awhile....there is nothing there...we are just friends.

M: Then why were you holding hands?....why did he kiss you?

Silence.

H: It's not what you think...I was telling him about how my dad had died recently and he was just consoling me.

M: You expect me to believe that bullsh*t after you just sat here for the past 5 minutes lying your a** off to me about everything?

Silence....then tears start flowing.

M: GTFO...I don;t want you to be here when I get back.

And I walked out of the apartment and went to a friends house.

She tried calling twice while I was over there...I refused to talk to her.

She was gone when I got home, and moved out within a couple days.

8 months later she came back begging for another chance...admitted she had been cheating with this POS.

I told her to get lost.

See, I didn't need to get every detail about what she had done, but I definitely did need to confront and find out the FACTS of what was happening.

Those few facts were enough for me to kick her to the curb hard.

GL.

If you want any chance of saving your M you HAVE to confront her about the big red flags in her recent behavior and DEMAND answers.

Anything less is a waste of your time, especially trying to speculate with your 'intuition' about what it all means.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

EleGirl said:


> If you give her the divorce letter, there is no turning back.
> 
> If you give her the needs letter you don't have to wait until December. You can see how she responds NOW. IF you don't like her response give her the divorce letter.
> 
> ...


Ele, I like your ideas.

My letter already talks in more general terms of working on the marriage when she returns in December. If I suggest we both read, work through, communicate using the book NOW, it clearly shows to me that she is serious and eliminates doubt. If she makes an excuse, then I have indication she is not genuine and I have my answer.

Yes, very true I know little about her goings on. She has told me basic things like if she is going to her home town to visit he mom or see her sick relative, but true I have no contact info. It sounds like a good idea to ask, even for emergency purposes. The therapist is for her depression. Some have said here that I need to find out if the depression is general stuff, or is she depressed about her marriage, meaning not wanting to be married to me and not having the strength to say so. My wife has a huge problem saying no to anyone. She has gotten better, but still an issue. The only problem with the doctor is he may not be bilingual. But I could still ask for his number and see how she reacts. Sounds like you think it normal for me to have a general talk with spouse therapist. Isn't that a violation of doctor/patient privilege? It also sounds like you think I need to verify her work status. I would be floored, floored if she was lying about that which would make no sense at all. Of the things she has told me, it sounds honest. The hidden things with the dating site are the exception not the rule.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> GL,
> 
> You still aren't doing anything but speculating in your own mind about what she has been up to, recently and going back to when she left to go home for a supposedly short visit.
> 
> ...


She had communicated why she left, what her intent was to get therapy, work on herself, have a job she loves and then come back. The only things she has hidden by omission is the dating profile and the fact that the house holds her and not me. Since she deleted the profile a month ago, had it up 1 week and sent only 1 picture and 1 reply a month ago, I believe it was a bad mistake on her part that she corrected herself. The letter with my wants and the very specific questions for getting committed to fix our marriage will give me the answers you believe I should get through direct confrontation a roundabout way, but more effective IF she wants to save our marriage. It is also very hard to confront someone on old news thousands of miles away. I also don't want her to get defensive, making excuses or turning tables saying I was spying on her email messages. 

Well, hope you can understand where I am coming from.

The only thing I am hung up on with sending the "New deal" letter with my wants is that comment she made to her cousin that the house holds her and not me. I have to get over that. And I am thinking the way to reconcile in my mind is if she does say she wants to fix our marriage #1 and wants to read the book and communicate more now, I have confirmation of her good intent. Anything less, and it shows that the marriage is indeed over. This is why I am liking Ele's approach more over a confrontation. If I had more tangible evidence, I could confront, well actually, I would just file for divorce as I am on the brink anyway. But I do not see any other evidence. I will ask for all of the contact names and addresses so can do verification.

Follow-up: Actually thought of two other things that I am unhappy with. 

1) Hurt that I spent a huge, huge sum of money for a vacation and 2 weeks later she posts a dating profile. How would that make you all feel?

2) Some have asked "What have you done for me lately?" or "What am I getting out of the marriage?". Well, for years I have supported my wife, encouraged her, been patient, financial help, you know the FNG thing and I have gotten NOTHING in return, not even a birthday or Christmas gift, no sex. This is not meant to be selfish, but it something to think about. (I did address these things in my "New Deal" letter, so I am calling it out. In past, when my wife was out of work or did not have money, that was always a reason why she didn't buy me a gift. But should that matter? On the other hand I have always bought her birthday, anniversary, Valentine's day gift, flowers on occasion or as a surprise. She has never bought anything ever for our anniversary or valentines day and nothing random. It is all me)


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Dyokemm said:


> If you want any chance of saving your M you HAVE to confront her about the big red flags in her recent behavior and DEMAND answers.
> 
> Anything less is a waste of your time, especially trying to speculate with your 'intuition' about what it all means.


Wouldn't sending my letter of demands of my wants and needs confirm through indirect "Confrontation"?

I know my wife. She will just explain away all of the red flags. She told me why she is there. The only think she cannot deflect is the dating web site thing. But I find it useless to bring up now. It is very difficult confronting a spouse that is 7000 miles away. Your example is one where you can be right on top of it all. I would have done the same thing in your case.

By the way, I sometimes feel "Girls night out" is very bad idea. Why do women feel they can go in groups to singles bars and think this is OK? I suppose if one is so extremely confident in relationships that one should trust one another, I get it. But isn't this inviting temptation? My wife did some of this when she was here. I did not do guys night out. I guess I am different and old-fashioned. I think if married women do this with their girl friends, guys you have to do the same. (Sorry going off on tangent, but your example made me think of this).

Follow-up: One more thing about me. I am not the jealous type. In my marriage and past GF relationships I was confident that my woman was with me, and any other guys looking and appreciating made me feel good, that she was mine, I did not feel jealousy. So I am confident in a relationship. But my marriage is not healthy and is on life support right now. Or needs a defib unit.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

GL.

No...I don't thin indirect confrontation will work.

Of course, she will try to sweep away everything with lies as 'explanations'.

Cheaters lie.

Look at the convo I posted from me with my ex...EVERY time I asked her to explain something she LIED...I knew her lying meant she was cheating and she got kicked to the curb because of it.

Eight months later she begged and came clean that everything I suspected was true because she wanted another chance...it confirmed my instincts or intuitions of what her lies meant were right.

See, I use intuition too....but based off of important CONFIRMED facts.

What you are doing is basing everything off of her WORDS...but her actions say things very different. (I'm referring to why she left and denied sex here)

That or you have totally failed to even confront her behavior. (I'm referring to the dating profile, communications/pics with OM, and what she has generally really been doing for a year here).

JUST confront her like this:

Y: So have you been seeing or talking to other men over there?

H: No (lie)

Y:Then why did you have a dating profile up on 'site'.

H: I was just bored and curious so I looked around on the site...I never talked to anyone on it. (her probable response and a lie)

Y: Then why did you exchange emails with POS1 and pics with POS2?

She will probably have some ridiculous explanation as to why she communicated with them and tell you its over and doesn't matter anyway.

That's when you hit her with the line I gave my ex:

"Why should I believe this bullsh*t when you have just spent the last few minutes lying your a** off every time I asked you about some inappropriate behavior you engaged in?"

And then tell her that her lying about this puts real doubts in your mind about why she really cut you off from sex, why she really went home, and what she has actually been up to.

Then tell her that if she wants any chance of saving her M she has to return home ASAP and begin working on the M, starting with giving you the TRUTH about all these things cause you are tired of the lying, hiding and deception.

If she won't do that, then as far as you're concerned the M is over and you will move to file for D.

GL.

She has to see the gig is up...her little games and inappropriate behavior is over...its either this, she meets your demands, or her M and life with you is over.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Dyokemm said:


> GL.
> 
> No...I don't thin indirect confrontation will work.
> 
> ...


I really like this in it's entirety.

GL, you're not going to be ok rugsweeping (which is what your "indirect confrontation" is doing), either now, or at some point in your future. It also is a step toward (re-)establishing yourself a 'the man' here, a bit of alpha coming through. I'd really advise you not letting this go, from the outset. If you're going to put yourself in a position to forgive, you'd better damn well know what it is you're forgiving. You're very certain there isn't "more" for a guy who quciky admits he has no idea what is going on 7000 miles away with a wife he barely talks to. Just because she took her dating profile down does not mean she stopped the activity. In fact, given her exchanges on email, it is more likely that there's another readon she took it down -- like she knows you saw it, or that a login occurred to her email address from your IP, or took it to wnother email address that you don't know about, or hit it off with a guy and didn't want new incoming mail.

Again, I like the above approach a lot.:smthumbup:


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi All,

I sent the new deal letter tonight. I have made certain demands, so now I will see the reaction.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Def Leppard - Bringin' on the Heartbreak


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

And what was her response?


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> And what was her response?


To my needs list, which was essentially my last plea to make our marriage #1 and come home and work on it with marriage counselor....

her response was my life is here, we no longer can live as husband and wife.

She said this over text messages, did not talk to me directly.



You all were right! At least I gave it everything I had.


----------



## SawbladeLily (Oct 26, 2013)

As much as it sucks GL, you now know, and you now can start to rebuild your life! No more questions and worry and indecision. It does get better! I've been through the indecision and worry through infidelity twice. This time through I was upset for about 2 weeks and decided to heck with that! I'm moving on. It's been 11 months now since I found out, and I have to say it's been remarkably easy to come to grips with. Something flipped in me and I just realized I was NOT happy myself, and now I'm looking forward to a new life. You will have that too. I'm sorry you have to go through it all, but it does get better.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Life will just get better now.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Sorry for how it's turned out for you, but yes a better life is now yours to make. Go make it.

Despicable that you were so concerned about confronting her over the phone but she had no problem ending your marriage via text. 

Tells you everything right there.


----------



## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Sorry GL.

I know is sucks to have been gaslighted about what she was really doing this whole time.

And you may not have all the answers to why, but my advice is to let them go. Do not torment yourself wondering what she was really doing.

In the end it means nothing....al that matters is the truth has now set you free.

Move on and find someone who is actually worthy of you.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Hey, join the club. My XW told me by text too. 15 year marriage with 3 kids. 

Take way from that how broken they are and how much better off you can potentially be. 

Not to minimize the situation but on the other side it becomes much more clear.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

Thanks everyone for the encouraging thoughts. Since earlier this week there are some developments. After the texting, there was silence for a few days, then she all of sudden wants to talk on the phone after dropping her text bombs about ending the marriage as I indicated above. I wrote her an email explaining my reaction. Essentially I reconfirmed that the needs list I sent a few weeks ago was for her to show actions of love, not just words and that I wanted to work through the book His Needs Her Needs and go to counseling. Today in the email, I did not assign blame but said I was waiting for her for over 10 months and now she says her life is there. I said I was hurt and sad by this, but respect her decision. *I said I need to move on with my life to find my happiness. *

Her reply was we can't talk about this in messages, we need to now speak. OK, but why did she send me those hurtful messages through text earlier? Why didn't we speak then? She also said she is hurt too, but I don't get that either as everything with this is on her. She left, I didn't. I guess I can talk with her, but all I expect to hear is more excuses of finding herself and more self-centered BS. Sorry I have some anger here. What is your advice?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Send her the following:

"I am sorry that you feel this way."

Leave it at that. Wordy communications about feelings have less impact than terse statements.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

I haven't replied yet. But she texted me again saying that we should talk soon and that she is getting very afraid. So I guess maybe she wants to keep me as a friend, but ditch me as a husband? Sometimes i think she has childish qualities. Does she want the security provided by my love and friendship and yet not be a wife to me?


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Talk about what? Why you haven't had sex for two years?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Reply w/ divorce papers.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

"OK, call me. You talk, I'll listen only because I am curious to hear what you have to say for yourself."


----------



## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Read the thread by poster BFF. The whole thing... And believe. Horrific start. EPIC end.

Others will attest to my logistical abilities in reconstructing affairs from known data.

She found her new man. She went there with that intent. New man in HER country. That is what the dating profile was. She found him elsewhere, likely at work. Taking it down was roughly her exclusivity date with him. I have no feel for when they met or when they took it physical. The data points are too dispersed. She is too far to spy on without a PI. It's done. Unless infidelity matters in your state, don't bother getting more proof.

You gave it all.

You are now at war. Act accordingly.


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Pretty much agree, and have all along.

I'm very curious to know what news she is bringing to the next actual conversation, why she is now "scared". Is it just drama for what's fairly obvious and known, will she cop to the OM, or is there even an incremental big twist coming...


----------



## Kevinb (Jan 8, 2012)

Hmm interesting


----------



## angel kate (Sep 13, 2014)

A decision now to date is essentially a decision to end your marriage. Perhaps that's the right decision, but if so, communicate it to your wife so she has the same options.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

2xloser said:


> "OK, call me. You talk, I'll listen only because I am curious to hear what you have to say for yourself."


I tried to arrange a call for Sunday, I asked why she is scared. She has not sent a message to me for almost a week, nothing. 

I just feel sad.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

weightlifter said:


> Read the thread by poster BFF. The whole thing... And believe. Horrific start. EPIC end.
> 
> Others will attest to my logistical abilities in reconstructing affairs from known data.
> 
> ...


It is true I tried my best, I wanted to get a positive response to fix, but her reply was marriage in past, while I am still in it. 

I have no idea what is going on, yes, too far away.

All is speculation. 

Yes, could be another man, but my intuition is no. 

It is hard on me emotionally that she evidently is done talking too.


----------



## GreenLantern (Feb 24, 2014)

It's been awhile, but I have an update and looking for more feedback from anyone.

Finally, my wife called me. From talking to people on forum, I was calm and even, no anger or crying or strong emotions. I left her do most of talking, but did start to talk more at end as I am a very chatty person to begin with.

Here is the highlights of the conversation. I tried to remember everything, so here goes.

Her Story:
- She said she wants me to be happy.
- She says "I don't know if marriage is going to work". (I found this odd, as she said in her text messages to me last month that we cannot live as husband and wife anymore. What does she want a platonic marriage? Strange.)
- She says with all the things I am dealing with in my life she wants to be there, but only as a friend.
- She says she thinks of me as family (and her family loves me)
- She mentioned that she may not come back to USA
- She said she would like for both of us to be friends, helping each other together in both countries. I assume that means in future, I visit her there and she here. 
- She said to me now, she is more mature and calm.
- I mentioned the vacation that I felt passion returning, and in her words "I didn't." (meaning she didn't feel anything. Oddly she said we didn't touch one another, but we did kiss and hold hands so I am not even sure what she is talking about). She also said she had fun on the vacation with me, loves my company. 
- She said she lost the passion
- She said it has been years and it just was too long. 

My Responses:
- I said, it was a mistake to leave and be separated. Her response -- that I don't know about DEPRESSION. My response back, well married people whether depressed or not stick through things together and work through it. (She did not answer)
- I told her that she left me when I needed her the most. (She starts to cry. Note on call I never cry or yell or anything. I cried a little after I hung up, so I stayed strong when I needed to show her I was fine)

- At the end she said she loved me, I said it back. I maybe shouldn't have, but it is so hard to stop loving someone after over 10 years of marriage. 

So it looks like she is blaming loss of passion and her depression as to why she is in her country for a year. She also said the only thing that is making her happy right now is her job there. 

It is very difficult for me emotionally as she appears to have a love for me, but the romantic love is not there anymore. Does she believe I can go on forever in a "marriage" like this? I had a crazy thought to fly down there, but then I would be in trouble with my job and other things. This is my own romantic side wanting to see if I can respark it. Would living there in her country, chucking it all for my marriage, bring the passion back in her. She could work at the job she loves, and I am there. So it may come back? I know this may be a fantasy, I want to hear brutal honesty from you. But, you also must understand my relationship is very unique. How many times do people half a world away get married for 10 years. I know there are significant risks, and it may not work. Also, maybe she is just trying to make me feel better. But why is she crying, why is she saying she loves me and considers me family? If this is the evolution of our relationship, this really sucks as I want my WIFE back (romance and passion). 

I have already contacted my lawyer, she drew up the divorce complaint before I had my call with my wife last night. I was intending, later this week, to ask my lawyer to file the divorce. I was planning to send it to my wife and say "here I will make this easy for you". Now, I am pausing for thought again. I even had idea to talk to my minister at my church for help. Sometimes I wish it would just be a nasty split so clear to make divorce. It is so hard to end when the feelings of love are still there. Or is my wife torturing me, intentionally or no. Well, let me know I want to hear from you.


----------



## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

File for divorce and stop talking with her. If she loves you as a woman, she will return to you. If she loves you as cousin, do you want be married to her?


----------



## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

Sent you a PM. She's done, and has been for longer than you're recognizing and still coming to terms with. That doesn't mean she feels good about it; of course it's emotional for both of you. But: Let it - and her - go. Be done with the misery, this has not been an actual marriage for quite a while now. She's not coming back, she has told you all you need to know. Accept it and move on. It doesn't have to be nasty, but remember, nothing's settled yet either so stay wary.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

She cried because she feels bad that her marriage did not work out for HER.

She says you are family because you are no like a brother or cousin to her. She has no passion for you. Further, she is not willing to do anything to get that passion back. This means that she prefers not having passion for you. She prefers no being married to you.

Don't go to where she is. She's been clear that she does not want to be with you. If you go you will not gain anything.

You already tried spending time with her.. the recent very expensive vacation you took her on. Where did that get you? Nowhere. 

Your situation is not really all that unique. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people world wide marry across continents, across cultures, etc. The thought that your marriage is unique is just a way to romanticize it.

She left you a long time ago. It's time for you to accept it. 

Sorry man..


----------



## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

She doesn't want a husband. She wants an ATM. You're just a bank account to her. 

End this.


----------

