# Giving Constructive Criticism



## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

> Wife never wants sex. She just gets crazy uptight whenever we try to talk about it. She tries to pick a fight to get out of any discussion. She knows she has something to work through...a huge issue in our marriage.
> 
> So what is she doing last night? Watching some movie about African tribes who mutilate girls' girl parts? That was the acual focus of the movie. Yeah, that should help! Then when I calmly suggest it might not be helpful she attacks me? Accusing me of purposely making her feel bad and mocking her? WTH?


I posted this as a rant on another board, then thought, well that's not very constructive. So I thought about it some more.

I realized she does this almost habitually. Whenever she doesn't like what I have to say, usually when I'm right, she attacks my intentions in telling her. I assume she does it so she won't have to think about the actual issue.

So my question is, what is a good way to point things out w/o her feeling attacked? I was thinking maybe it would be to say something that lets her come to the conclusion herself. Something like, "if that was about men cutting off their junk, it would make me never feel like having sex again." But that's kind of manipulative. And also, I don't want her thinking there it is! Another excuse not to feel like sex! Yay!

Thoughts?


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## ItMatters (Jun 6, 2012)

I dunno- fussing at your wife for her viewing choice because it is another excuse to not have sex just seems to be clouding the issue.

I mean what if she watches, um, MythBusters or 20,000 Kids and Counting... those probably won't get her in the mood either.

Yes, the genital mutilation show won't help, but neither will your comment.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

I think rather than continuing to point out things to her, you need to have one more talk about what her real issue is. A talk, asking questions, ask her if she is attracted to you, and if she says yes, ask her how she shows it, and think to yourself, are you paying attention to those cues? If she says she has no drive, as her what can you do to help it? Ask her what she does to help it? Ask her if she has done any research? Tell her you have, and that sexual differences is a huge reason for affairs and divorce and that you don't want to go that route but you are frustrated. Dont hound her, that just makes it worse. (My husband and i went through a stage like this in our marriage a couple years ago, his "pointing things out" made me feel worse about sex, made me think about it less and less instead. Then we had a long talk, i did some research and realized I am responsible for my own sexuality, I have to ensure that I think about it, if that means reading a sexy romance novel, or thinking about my husband in sexual ways, etc, to prime my brain ahead of time. But at the same time, I wanted to also feel affection from him, not every single advance needed to be of a sexual nature and for him it was, which is a cycle you fall into because you want to take any shot you can at getting some. Make a note of that, to tell your wife, you realize how you may have contributed to the problem getting worse, but that her libido is her responsibility, and yours is yours. Ask her what is one thing in your marriage she would not be able to live without.... when she answers it, let her know that sex is it for you.... have her read this article, read it together, was very eye opening for both me and my dh, many of the things i was trying to communicate to him were not coming out right, and the things he was trying to communicate to me were not coming out right... (I have pasted it below) A man's number one need in marriage is sexual... a womans is affection.... if a man is not getting sex he does not want to give affection, and vise versa... it's a vicious cycle that must be broken. But it does take patience. I can tell you when I was in the low libido issues, if i was watching a nat geo special and my husband said something like that, it would've pissed me off.... that is the response you got from your wife. However a deep intimate emotional conversation.... that was totally different. Also in that conversation, things like sexual likes and dislikes should come up, you may discover a lot you did't know, both me and my dh did, mostly he realized he was going about trying to turn me on all wrong, and I hadn't realized it until we had that deep talk..... Try it. If she won't talk...... then I would get more serious with some other methods. 
His Needs-Her Needs-Our Needs


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

ItMatters said:


> I dunno- fussing at your wife for her viewing choice because it is another excuse to not have sex just seems to be clouding the issue.
> 
> I mean what if she watches, um, MythBusters or 20,000 Kids and Counting... those probably won't get her in the mood either.
> 
> Yes, the genital mutilation show won't help, but neither will your comment.


This...and I would add....criticism and mood setting are delicate arts.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

livelaughlovenow said:


> I think rather than continuing to point out things to her, you need to have one more talk about what her real issue is. A talk, asking questions, ask her if she is attracted to you, and if she says yes, ask her how she shows it, and think to yourself, are you paying attention to those cues? If she says she has no drive, as her what can you do to help it? Ask her what she does to help it? Ask her if she has done any research?............... Also in that conversation, things like sexual likes and dislikes should come up, you may discover a lot you did't know, both me and my dh did, mostly he realized he was going about trying to turn me on all wrong, and I hadn't realized it until we had that deep talk..... Try it. If she won't talk...... then I would get more serious with some other methods.


Actually I've been trying to get her to talk about it FOR YEARS and she refuses. I'm pretty much at my wit's end. There's always some excuse...kids in the house (oh, but she doesn't want me to send them anywhere either), medication (which she just started but this has been going on 10 years)...always something. If she'd just talk about it...I planned a super relaxing, completely no-stress night this weekend with no pressure on her for anything, sexual or otherwise. All I asked is that she basically show up and give it a chance...I asked will you do that? She wouldn't even look in my eyes, just looked away and clamped her mouth shut. Where do I go with this if she won't even commit to making an effort?

But frankly all this is neither here nor there, it has nothing to do with what I asked. You actually think it's justified to twist the issue into something else and blow up at your husband for constructive criticism? Particularly on an issue that is a major one in the marriage at the moment? Wow. And you think I should just let every single thing that impacts that situation slide by without any comment at all? 

Yes, I'm frustrated.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Drover said:


> Actually I've been trying to get her to talk about it FOR YEARS and she refuses. I'm pretty much at my wit's end. There's always some excuse...kids in the house (oh, but she doesn't want me to send them anywhere either), medication (which she just started but this has been going on 10 years)...always something. If she'd just talk about it...I planned a super relaxing, completely no-stress night this weekend with no pressure on her for anything, sexual or otherwise. All I asked is that she basically show up and give it a chance...I asked will you do that? She wouldn't even look in my eyes, just looked away and clamped her mouth shut. Where do I go with this if she won't even commit to making an effort?
> 
> But frankly all this is neither here nor there, it has nothing to do with what I asked. You actually think it's justified to twist the issue into something else and blow up at your husband for constructive criticism? Particularly on an issue that is a major one in the marriage at the moment? Wow. And you think I should just let every single thing that impacts that situation slide by without any comment at all?
> 
> Yes, I'm frustrated.


 NO no no..... I didn't realize your issue was going on this long. I think it's time to bring down the hammer. I assume you have tried the 180 people suggest on here? I cannot believe she wouldn't talk with you? WTH? I think you need to get serious with her, tell her this is going to ruin your marriage.... it's only a matter of time before you look elsewhere to have this need satisfied since you have tried everything with her. Ask her to go to Marriage counseling. See if then she is willing to talk???


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Yeah, we're going to marriage counseling soon. Have it booked in a couple of weeks. But an hour a week isn't going to do it. She seems to think we'll just show up and that will magically fix things with no commitment or effort.

I've definitely been a No More Mr Nice Guy case. And started running a 180...briefly  then she seemed to give me an opening and I kinda backslid. What I have been doing well is bumping back, which she responds to. I just kinda blew up today after she left. How hard is it really for her to just say, "I'll try"?


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

It's not hard at all if she wants your marriage to work. MC may help, may help to get things out that maybe she is hiding, or to let you be able to get out how you are feeling since she wont sit and talk with you... but part of MC (at least from those I have known) you are given assignements of sorts of things to discuss and work on outside of the sessions.... so it isn't just that hour, it's an ongoing process.... so if she thinks she is only going to have to talk to you during that time, she will be in for a surprise. Even when my dh and I went we were given homework, lol.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Drover,
You need to read MMSL, by Athol Kay. And you need to fix the non-sexual issues you have - that kill desire - and there are at least few major ones. 

A few general observations:
- Either you are fun to be with/comforting/supportive and a good spouse or
- You aren't

Either you let your W be disrespectful to you in general, or you don't. 

If you really are a good partner and deserve respect, and then you learn how to demand respect, life gets much better. 

Just a general comment though. If sex with your wife is rare, commenting on her TV viewing habits is not going to make things better. I get why you didn't like it - but really - watching that type show is a one off, it isn't her core issue. 






Drover said:


> I posted this as a rant on another board, then thought, well that's not very constructive. So I thought about it some more.
> 
> I realized she does this almost habitually. Whenever she doesn't like what I have to say, usually when I'm right, she attacks my intentions in telling her. I assume she does it so she won't have to think about the actual issue.
> 
> ...


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Giving your wife criticism. May as well piss on Genghis Khan's shoes and spit in his eye.


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Yuh, just finished it yesterday. And working on exactly the issue it's about...not being her doormat, which i admittedly have been. The thing is the TV show isn't a one off. It's the TV show, then it's something else, then something else. I can almost guarantee if I didn't say something about this it would come up in her next round of no-sex excuses.



MEM11363 said:


> Drover,
> You need to read MMSL, by Athol Kay. And you need to fix the non-sexual issues you have - that kill desire - and there are at least few major ones.
> 
> A few general observations:
> ...


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

Runs like Dog said:


> Giving your wife criticism. May as well piss on Genghis Khan's shoes and spit in his eye.


lol


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

D,
MC is a fine thing when you have a communication issue - which I think you likely do. MC is not however going to level the playing field in terms of effort. 
Sounds like: you have taught your wife that she an treat you in a manner you seem to dislike
And taught her that being aggressive on topics she dislikes is effective.

When you become much more focusd on your boundaries than on her approval rating of you as a spouse, your life will improve.

She may need conflict (which is different than combat) and emotional space to feel passion. 
Conflict is about enforcing your boundaries. Combat is telling her what she can/not watch on tv. 
Conflict is about you resisting the urge to try to make peace even when you are the one who has been shown disrespect. 
Space has been created when she has enough breathing room to approach you. 


QUOTE=Drover;828556]Yuh, just finished it yesterday. And working on exactly the issue it's about...not being her doormat, which i admittedly have been. The thing is the TV show isn't a one off. It's the TV show, then it's something else, then something else. I can almost guarantee if I didn't say something about this it would come up in her next round of no-sex excuses.[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Drover (Jun 11, 2012)

We had a long talk last night and worked out some misunderstandings. She communicated more than she has in quite awhile. It was a very calm, loving conversation.

She apparently saw, "are you willing to make an effort? Are you willing to even try?", as rhetorical. Said she didn't realize I was looking for an actual verbal response from her as an indication, and said of course she was willing. She pointed out a couple of things she had done yesterday that were nice to me. And she was right. She had done them. And she's quit fitness testing me quite so much already.

One thing I didn't really think about is that she really doesn't realize it's not just about being nice with actions. I really need to hear from her that she loves me without having to pry it out of her. That goes a long way. I think a lot of this is just bad habits on both our parts and we're just going to have to push through to get where we need to go.

Eh, things take time.


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## livelaughlovenow (Apr 23, 2012)

Drover said:


> We had a long talk last night and worked out some misunderstandings. She communicated more than she has in quite awhile. It was a very calm, loving conversation.
> 
> She apparently saw, "are you willing to make an effort? Are you willing to even try?", as rhetorical. Said she didn't realize I was looking for an actual verbal response from her as an indication, and said of course she was willing. She pointed out a couple of things she had done yesterday that were nice to me. And she was right. She had done them. And she's quit fitness testing me quite so much already.
> 
> ...


Yes, but progres is a good thing! And getting some conversation started is huge  That is awesome!


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