# Is this infidelity? Please help



## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

My wife and I have been married 5 years, been together for 10. We have two young kids and this year has been kind of rough. Not much intimacy which I hear is fairly normal when you have young kids. We've had a lot of arguments in the past 6 months and a lot of them revolve around me not carrying my weight with the kids and domestic responsibilities. Anyways about a month ago after getting a week of silent treatment I wrote her this letter putting everything out there. I told her I was sorry and also said at times I am scared she is falling out of love with me and I feel like she is very distant. I put it in a place where she would find it, checked a day later and it was no longer there. Waited a few days and she never brought it up. So I did. She said she had not had time to write me back which I felt kinda missed the point. She said though that she did not have a lot of hope I would change and that she is tired of feeling like a single parent. Her lack of assurance in regards to all my concerns shook me up. So for the last two weeks I've been doing everything I can and she seems like she is happy with my efforts. 

Only problem is I started noticing that while all this is going on she seems binded to her cell phone. She never puts it down and always keeps it on her which is not normal. Already feeling insecure, the other day I looked through her texts while she was in the shower. Come to find out she does text A LOT with a male co-worker. Nothing sexual but she confides in him more than she confides in me. She also tells him all about our arguments and even about the letter I wrote her. I feel like my relationship with her is no longer private and he is privy to everything. Like I mentioned she does not text anything sexual but does send things like "good morning" and "how is your day?". They go back and forth through out the day updating each other what whats going on. One of the texts the other day was literrally "pssst, I am kinda drunk. I wanted to say hi" It reads like a school girl crush. I actually met the guy at one of her company events I attended with her years back. He is married with a kid.

I looked up emotional cheating and the definition on wikipedia resonates a lot with me. I am struggling with a couple things I really could use advice on.

1. Am I over reacting to my wife just having a close friend that happens to be a guy?
2. Since I invaded her privacy, do I even have a right to bring this up as something bothering me? 
3. We are actually getting along great since I have been stepping up my game in being more helpful with the kids and house work. If I bring this up I feel like it's going to really **** things up and we are going to be in a ****ty situation thru the holidays and I don't want that. 
4. Part of me tells myself I can't control anyones actions. People will do what they want to do. I have to have some faith that she won't take this further.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

bradj said:


> My wife and I have been married 5 years, been together for 10. We have two young kids and this year has been kind of rough. Not much intimacy which I hear is fairly normal when you have young kids. We've had a lot of arguments in the past 6 months and a lot of them revolve around me not carrying my weight with the kids and domestic responsibilities. Anyways about a month ago after getting a week of silent treatment I wrote her this letter putting everything out there. I told her I was sorry and also said at times I am scared she is falling out of love with me and I feel like she is very distant. I put it in a place where she would find it, checked a day later and it was no longer there. Waited a few days and she never brought it up. So I did. She said she had not had time to write me back which I felt kinda missed the point. She said though that she did not have a lot of hope I would change and that she is tired of feeling like a single parent. Her lack of assurance in regards to all my concerns shook me up. So for the last two weeks I've been doing everything I can and she seems like she is happy with my efforts.
> 
> Only problem is I started noticing that while all this is going on she seems binded to her cell phone. She never puts it down and always keeps it on her which is not normal. Already feeling insecure, the other day I looked through her texts while she was in the shower. Come to find out she does text A LOT with a male co-worker. Nothing sexual but she confides in him more than she confides in me. She also tells him all about our arguments and even about the letter I wrote her. I feel like my relationship with her is no longer private and he is privy to everything. Like I mentioned she does not text anything sexual but does send things like "good morning" and "how is your day?". They go back and forth through out the day updating each other what whats going on. One of the texts the other day was literrally "pssst, I am kinda drunk. I wanted to say hi" It reads like a school girl crush. I actually met the guy at one of her company events I attended with her years back. He is married with a kid.
> 
> ...


1. No, you are not over-reacting. Read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.
2. You should make sure you are on firm ground before bringing it up, as otherwise she is likely to say it's "nothing".
3. Keep quiet and keep your eyes open for the moment. Read the http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html on how to check up on her without her knowing it.
4. It is very likely that she is going to take it further if you don't put a stop to it, but again you need to catch her red-handed if you don't want to be gaslighted (look it up).

Sorry you are here, but you may be able to nip this in the bud.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

It does sound like an EA to me, you have every right to bring it up if it is bothering you. She needs to be talking to you about the marital problems and not a co worker.
If you are wanting to have calm holidays, then wait until after but you need to bring it up if you are not comfortable with their relationship and her telling some guy married or not all about your marriage and a private letter you wrote to her.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EA

Stop it now. You need to believe what she said and fix your problem as well, but another man in your marriage is not going to help her notice the changes.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Sounds like the beginnings of an affair.


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## deg20 (Apr 10, 2015)

Just because no sexting has occurred yet, doesn't mean it won't...it's almost a given. And why hasn't she told you they are texting, or even brought it up in passing...? If they work together, then good morning at work is good enough...and if the good morning is texted on weekends, that's definitely not good...

watch this closely...


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Anything secretive in a marriage is a problem. Hence guarding the cell. There is no such thing as snooping or privacy in a marriage. She should have full access to your stuff and you hers. 

I've been through this before. Affairs can start with friendships. 

Stop this now!!!!! How would she feel if you were doing this?????

Work on fixing your problems but when you bring another man into the marriage it often ends in disaster.

Lookup the phone bill and print it out. Put it in front of her and show her all the time she's spending with this guy!!!! You'd be wise to have a copy to send to his wife and see how she likes it. Make no mistake exposure will stop it. Catching it early was a lucky break. No good will/can come if this.

Often when you see one spouse accusing the other of being a bad partner or bad parent this can be the root of the problem. 

If you're smart you'll stop this now before it becomes bigger. 

If you're affraid of making her mad think about where this may lead??????????

She didn't have a problem telling you about your problems did she?????? This probably will not end until you stop it. You both need to talk about boundaries.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

[Part of me tells myself I can't control anyones actions. People will do what they want to do. I have to have some faith that she won't take this further.]

Famous last words!!!

This is very naive. Wake up!!!!!!


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## Dude007 (Jun 22, 2015)

Leave fake romantic evidence blatantly around of you and another woman.(friend u can trust) see how she likes you stepping out on her!! That'll shut this sheet down Dude
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

I'm not gonna lie. I am bummed out by these replies. I was hoping I would get more people telling me that it might be nothing and that it could just be normal to have a friend to confide in and share with. I guess I was hoping to take the ignorance is bliss approach. I appreciate all the blunt responses though. Thanks everyone.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

check your phone bill and see how long this has been going on? You can go online and look up the activity.

If she won't stop send a copy to the activity to the other mans wife. You can't be too careful here.

As far as help around the house take over some of the work and make it yours. This change you make needs to be permanent. It's fair as well don't expect her to do it all.

Marriage should be 50/50


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> I'm not gonna lie. I am bummed out by these replies. I was hoping I would get more people telling me that it might be nothing and that it could just be normal to have a friend to confide in and share with. I guess I was hoping to take the ignorance is bliss approach. I appreciate all the blunt responses though. Thanks everyone.


Read. This happens all the time. Luckily you seem to have caught it early. If you rugsweep this do it at your own peril.

A lot sit back and do nothing then find another man has taken their place. The connection can be so strong you can't break it. Don't wait until another man is banging your wife. Most thought it just couldn't happen then it's too late. 

Take time gather up all the evidence before you talk. Do not take any excuses. This is all on her. You own your issues but not this. This one is all hers. Why is she guarding her phone? She knows it's wrong!!!!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Stop this NOW!!!
Sigh...
Read this https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf

You have to find your [email protected] so to speak because weak = unattractive.
Others will help.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Count up the minutes, calls, texts she has made and received from him. Before you confront. This way she can't say were just friends. It's not a problem.

It'll probably shock her into reality.

Right now he is all fantasy, the grass is greener over there. It's all perfect. You represent the real world. Housework etc.

You do need to make yourself better. No doubt. he can't be in the mix.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

All this "stepping up your game" that you're doing, IMO, should include confronting her regarding the extent of her communications w/ her co-worker. That said, you need to be aware that, when you do this, she's going to accuse you of "invading her privacy". When she does this, you need to point out that a) she's confusing privacy w/ secrecy, b) _she's inappropriately confiding in a male co-worker w/ respect to the *private* goings-on of your marriage_, c) THIS IS PRECISELY HOW AFFAIRS START.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Take time and prepare. Do it calmly with no yelling and shouting. Pick a time maybe after the kids are in bed and say we need to talk. Don't get sidetracked. Keep it on this issue. 

Period.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

GusPolinski said:


> All this "stepping up your game" that you're doing, IMO, should include confronting her regarding the extent of her communications w/ her co-worker. That said, you need to be aware that, when you do this, she's going to accuse you of "invading her privacy". When she does this, you need to point out that a) she's confusing privacy w/ secrecy, b) _she's inappropriately confiding in a male co-worker w/ respect to the *private* goings-on of your marriage_, c) THIS IS PRECISELY HOW AFFAIRS START.


But first he needs to have proof of what is going on, or it will just go underground.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

technovelist said:


> But first he needs to have proof of what is going on, or it will just go underground.


Dump her phone to get the texts.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Under the circumstances at this time all he needs to show is the phone bill information I think.

I suspect it'll be an eye opener but He can determine that. There is nothing bad on her texts apparently.

Good timing on his part before this possibly went to the next step


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

Let me clarify something, I tried to make my original post kind of simple and generalized. I guess part of my overly paranoid self was worried of this post showing up to her. Dumb I know. Anyways because of all the references to the phone bill I want to clarify that its actually emails back and forth thru her work email to his. She does it on her phone though because she has work email on her phone. She deletes messages from her inbox but never deletes messages from the Sent items box and that is where I can see everything. So technically these communications are not on the phone bill.


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## jdawg2015 (Feb 12, 2015)

You aren't paranoid.

Sharing your relationship details with another guy (even the letter) tells the OM she's opening up to him. 

"Good morning" etc and those kinds of pleasantries via text are smoking gun, not red flags. 

You need to make a very hard boundary. You also need to inform her that all contact with the OM via text ends immediately.

Ask her why should would share details like that with another guy and that it violates your values. DO NOT let her gaslight you.

She's already in an EA if it's at this point.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

So can I ask why you've not been a partner to your wife in terms of parenting and home chores?

Why did it take this much for you to step up? Has it occurred to you that while intimacy certainly can suffer with young kids it's guaranteed to suffer if you leave your wife to be a single parent? 

As for the texting, I'm not going to jump on the EA bandwagon yet. TAM sees cheating on everything short of porn sex on demand. It is inappropriate and could be a slippery slope, that's why OSF's are not a great idea unless it's a couple friend. 

I'd put a stop this, tell her you understand you haven't been a partner but no good comes of confiding in someone else. If you get any attitude tell the om's wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Have you checked her deleted messages or does she empty the folder? Text or emails does not matter it is still and EA, and you need to nip it in the bud. Have you checked the phone bill to see if she deleted texts msgs? 

I know it is hard to take and we all want to believe that our SO will never step out of the marriage, to be honest with you EA's are just as damaging as PA's. The choice is yours on whether or not you step up and put a stop to it.What it depends on is how bad you want your marriage and wife back and if it's not to late. You can clean until the cows come home, but if she is falling for this guy none of that will matter.

I would want to know why my spouse is talking to some guy about our marriage, and why she is not able to talk to me. Sharing private information to this guy will give him the chance to be there at just the right time to comfort her.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bradj said:


> Let me clarify something, I tried to make my original post kind of simple and generalized. I guess part of my overly paranoid self was worried of this post showing up to her. Dumb I know. Anyways because of all the references to the phone bill I want to clarify that its actually emails back and forth thru her work email to his. She does it on her phone though because she has work email on her phone. She deletes messages from her inbox but never deletes messages from the Sent items box and that is where I can see everything. So technically these communications are not on the phone bill.


Back everything up. Take screenshots and forward everything to your phone via SMS.


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> So can I ask why you've not been a partner to your wife in terms of parenting and home chores?
> 
> Why did it take this much for you to step up? Has it occurred to you that while intimacy certainly can suffer with young kids it's guaranteed to suffer if you leave your wife to be a single parent?
> 
> ...


I don't have a good reason. I always thought I have been a great father I play with my kids all the time. Take them to the park. The movies. We go crazy at home just being silly. But she pointed out I suck at remembering to give them baths, brush their teeth and take them to the doctors for shots and stuff. Took a while to sink in.

As for the chores. I get complacent. It goes in a circle. She would get pissed and I would step it up for a week then get lazy. I always viewed it as a bad habit in the same vein at getting lazy with going to the gym and not eating healthy. Things I know I should do but I slack on. It was not until she seemed indifferent about the letter i wrote her that I realized this is wearing my wife down and has very serious long term implications. It took longer than it should have I agree. But I've never been more focused and determined on saving my marriage because the thought of divorce terrifies me. Both from losing my partner and love of my life and also the impact on my kids. The thought of not being in my kids lives every single day like normal almost brings me to tears. I've been a wreck since I learnedall this stuff and I am not eating or sleeping normally.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Actions speak louder than words. Writing letters and talking don't wash. Do your share and take some of the load off her.
This has to be permanent!

As far as the guy he has to go. And she needs to be transparent about it. If you have to call his wife so be it.

Make no mistake this is a potential disaster if you don't nip it in the bud now
She'll be PO'd but that's better than letting it go. Do not be afraid here. This is your life and family


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

First of all, scrambling to improve yourself because your wife is fed up is not as meaningful to your future as improving for YOUR OWN sake. You should strive to be a better, healthier man, a good partner, and a good dad all on your own. It's only when faced with losing something that you'd improve? That comes from a place of fear. Your wife will know it and will not be impressed long term. In fact, she'll use the fear to her advantage to keep doing what she wants. You must lead by example here, not do things because your wife expects it. No wonder you start things then get lazy. I hope that makes sense. 

Second, as others said, she is in a budding emotional affair. It seems to not have gone physical yet, but it's very close to going downhill rapidly. She's already disrespecting the relationship by sharing private matters with a coworker... On work email, which is so stupid it isn't even funny. Her work IT admins see absolutely everything that goes through the mail server, whether or not she "deletes" it. So basically, your wife may as well be telling total strangers about your marital challenges. She's clearly not thinking about that when writing her coworker. 

Next thing is frequency. If she's writing to him all the time, at very odd, outside of work hour hours, this could be impeding her actual work. She's not getting paid to chat. As an IT auditor I can tell you that routine monitoring of network accounts and activity happens in all service level organizations and yes, I've actually tested those involuntary termination help desk tickets that have kicked off because someone was misusing the company email for personal use. One of the first things IT does is download emails from the mail server to pass to management for review that no customer or other sensitive data was compromised. I'm not trying to make mountains of molehills here, truly, but lots of people live in a vacuum at work. NOTHING sent electronically is private.

Your wife may be legitimately fed up and you may need some real improvement. Neither of those things magically give her a green light to look outside of her marriage for relief. This other man doesn't live with her, help her babysit, or feed your kids. He's an emotional sponge soaking up her tears. All a woman needs for a start is a man who will listen.

You have a golden opportunity to change the outcome, but only for yourself with 100% certainty. You can't control your wife, but you can show her through actions what you will do as a result of her choices.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

You've gotten some great insight/advice. However, if you don't act and make changes permanently it won't help.


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## Sylvia Smith (Aug 24, 2015)

bradj said:


> My wife and I have been married 5 years, been together for 10. We have two young kids and this year has been kind of rough. Not much intimacy which I hear is fairly normal when you have young kids. We've had a lot of arguments in the past 6 months and a lot of them revolve around me not carrying my weight with the kids and domestic responsibilities. Anyways about a month ago after getting a week of silent treatment I wrote her this letter putting everything out there. I told her I was sorry and also said at times I am scared she is falling out of love with me and I feel like she is very distant. I put it in a place where she would find it, checked a day later and it was no longer there. Waited a few days and she never brought it up. So I did. She said she had not had time to write me back which I felt kinda missed the point. She said though that she did not have a lot of hope I would change and that she is tired of feeling like a single parent. Her lack of assurance in regards to all my concerns shook me up. So for the last two weeks I've been doing everything I can and she seems like she is happy with my efforts.
> 
> Only problem is I started noticing that while all this is going on she seems binded to her cell phone. She never puts it down and always keeps it on her which is not normal. Already feeling insecure, the other day I looked through her texts while she was in the shower. Come to find out she does text A LOT with a male co-worker. Nothing sexual but she confides in him more than she confides in me. She also tells him all about our arguments and even about the letter I wrote her. I feel like my relationship with her is no longer private and he is privy to everything. Like I mentioned she does not text anything sexual but does send things like "good morning" and "how is your day?". They go back and forth through out the day updating each other what whats going on. One of the texts the other day was literrally "pssst, I am kinda drunk. I wanted to say hi" It reads like a school girl crush. I actually met the guy at one of her company events I attended with her years back. He is married with a kid.
> 
> ...


Of course, she's having an emotional affair. And you have every right to bring it up. Sure, you had problems as a married couple, but your wife must understand that you are conscious of it and want to work on it. That is no excuse to have an emotional affair. Even her telling some guy married about your marriage problems and a private letter you wrote to her is bad enough - you need to speak to her and stop it right away or else she will have that affair. This is only the beginning.


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

Yes, this is infidelity! She is confiding to another man about her marital problems, which means that she is seeking, and getting, emotional validation from someone other than you. And if she told him about the letter, I'd be willing to bet next years salary that he is telling her things like: "Oh, you're such a wonderful woman... I would NEVER do that to you!" Or even: "God, what a loser! Any REAL MAN would step up and tell you these things instead of writing a letter!"

In short, any man that hears complaints from a woman about her husband/boyfriend will think: "Ah, trouble in paradise! A damsel in distress who is calling out for rescue!"


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Read this it'll help you understand


https://danielmiessler.com/blog/on-spending-time-with-the-opposite-sex/


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## DoneWithHurting (Feb 4, 2015)

She is IN an affair.
An emotional one.
Stomp on it hard.
No mercy.
End it now.
She's gonna get pissed.
Tough.
Either him or you.
Period.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

When you do confront her, and she starts giving you lip, tell her " let's call his wife, and see what she thinks about it".


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

I kinda feel like I should wait a bit longer to see what transpires. I think she is going to view me as telling her who she can and cannot be friends with and view me as controlling. If she were to take it to the next level and it crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate there is no downplaying it like I am sure she will. Any thoughts on that?


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

bradj said:


> I kinda feel like I should wait a bit longer to see what transpires. I think she is going to view me as telling her who she can and cannot be friends with and view me as controlling. If she were to take it to the next level and it crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate there is no downplaying it like I am sure she will. Any thoughts on that?


Ar you going to wait until they comsumate the relationship? They are already involved in an EA.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

Thound said:


> Ar you going to wait until they comsumate the relationship? They are already involved in an EA.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Was thinking more all along the lines of seeing if any of their conversation goes from friendly to sexual. This is all new to me but EA seems kind of a gray line and I can see someone not even realizing they are doing that. Sexual conversation is much more black and white. I feel like if I confronted her now she would even convince herself that this is strictly platonic and there was never a risk of it going further.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

bradj said:


> *I kinda feel like I should wait a bit longer to see what transpires.* I think she is going to view me as telling her who she can and cannot be friends with and view me as controlling. If she were to take it to the next level and it crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate there is no downplaying it like I am sure she will. Any thoughts on that?


:slap:


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

bradj said:


> Was thinking more all along the lines of seeing if any of their conversation goes from friendly to sexual. This is all new to me but EA seems *kind of a gray line *
> 
> *She is talking to a guy about your private life...that is black and white...ask her mum if its a grey area*
> 
> ...


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

bradj said:


> Only problem is I started noticing that while all this is going on *she seems binded to her cell phone*. She never puts it down and always keeps it on her which is not normal.


Oh dear...She knows what shes doing is wrong...she doesn't even get a doubt on that..


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

Other thing you need to know where the guy actually works in the building

If your up to it a little talk to him after may be in order and if he's married his wife should be informed


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## F-102 (Sep 15, 2010)

bradj said:


> I kinda feel like I should wait a bit longer to see what transpires. I think she is going to view me as telling her who she can and cannot be friends with and view me as controlling. If she were to take it to the next level and it crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate there is no downplaying it like I am sure she will. Any thoughts on that?


That is exactly what she is counting on! Then, after she verbally b*tch slaps you into submission for being "controlling", and you hang your head down and mumble "Uh, okay", she'll be back to carrying on with him!

My God, man... you are just BEGGING for her to sleep with him!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> Was thinking more all along the lines of seeing if any of their conversation goes from friendly to sexual. This is all new to me but EA seems kind of a gray line and I can see someone not even realizing they are doing that. Sexual conversation is much more black and white. I feel like if I confronted her now she would even convince herself that this is strictly platonic and there was never a risk of it going further.


You are very naive and apparently afraid. The longer this continues the harder it will be to stop. If it goes deep you may not be able to stop it or at the best maybe two years or so. 

Do you want to take a chance of him in your marital bed and maybe raising your kids????? Read the link Not Just Friends.

It's your call but I'd stop it now. You fix your issues like she had no trouble telling you to do. Why not expect the same?

If she thinks it's ok why is she hiding her phone?


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Step up your game. Make sure it's permanent. Show her by your actions. Take over part of the household duties. Remember marriage is 50/50. Then have a talk with her like she did you. 

Be calm and cool. If you don't get through have a talk with the guy and his wife.

If you are too affraid then let them determine your fate.

This is your life, family, future. No one is going to come to your rescue. You have to figure out how to do it yourself.


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Could she be naive to the fact that what she's doing is wrong? Absolutely. But, my friend, it's wrong.

This is bothering you and you are married. You have every right to confront her about it and tell her how you feel.

My husband has carried on talking to his ex gf our entire marriage. I don't think they've done anything physical, but to the extent of their communicating, I DONT KNOW. Can you live with not knowing and always having that doubt? Your trust is being shaken right now, can you deal if your trust gets shaken more? What will you do if it does turn into sexting or more? 

I confronted my husband more times than I can count. I got mad, I cried, I screamed, I threw things and I threatened to leave. And it never stopped.

Do you know how that's made me feel? It's made me feel like he's always chosen her over me and it's made me feel like I'm in a 3 person marriage. Me, him and her.

So yes, confront her. Tell her how this makes you feel. If she says she wants to leave, you have your answer. If she continues talking to him, you have your answer.

It seems as if you know the answer, but you don't want to admit it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

She is not just cheating on you. She is cheating on her children, too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

@bradj, I'll say this...

If all you've seen at this point is a handful of somewhat-benign-yet-still-inappropriate e-mails that your wife has exchanged w/ her co-worker, then you need to a) start looking at the phone bill and b) get your hands on her cell phone and take a look at any texts between them (honestly, look at ALL of her texts), _*ESPECIALLY* since she's guarding the phone_.

What kind of phone does she use?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Look, the only thing you can wait for is to catch her in the act. Ask anyone who has waited until the next step, it feels much worse than seeing some questionable emails.

Wait at the peril of your marriage.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

My advise is not very popular here, but I'm going to tell you anyways. Im the vengeful type, ***k with me.....expect the same in return....sevenfold!!!

Do you have any female friends? Ex girlfriends that you still talk to?
Female co-workers?

Why not ask one of these female "friends" out for coffee or drinks and ask for "advise" about your marital issues. You don't have to hide it from your wife, just don't have to tell her. Remember, your not doing anything inappropriate, your just trying to get a females perspective on what's happening. 

In the meantime, continue to improve on issues your wife has with you, not for her(because it will never be enough/to little to late)....but for yourself and your kids. 

Like I said, not everyone thinks like me.......but it's who I am and how I'm wired.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Since she is using work email and this guy is a coworker, it 50/50 that she is already physical with him. The volume of emails,those outside work hours, and what they talk about (you and marital problems) is what makes it an EA.

Just because they have not begun to talk about sex on work email does not mean there has not already been sex. Most people recognize that work email is not strictly private and might avoid sexual talk while using it for fear some IT guy might see it.

You may have a bigger problem than you know.

Sometimes saving a marriage means you have to be willing to end it.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You're going to wait until she does something wrong, huh? 

Problem is, she is already doing something wrong and you aren't admitting it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> @bradj, I'll say this...
> 
> If all you've seen at this point is a handful of somewhat-benign-yet-still-inappropriate e-mails that your wife has exchanged w/ her co-worker, then you need to a) start looking at the phone bill and b) get your hands on her cell phone and take a look at any texts between them (honestly, look at ALL of her texts), _*ESPECIALLY* since she's guarding the phone_.
> 
> What kind of phone does she use?


Easy check. Look at your phone bill online. Takes 15 minutes.

If they are using co email they will probably be using private as well


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Stop writing letters and leaving them around and open your mouth and let her know that what she's doing is wrong and you wont put up with it.

If you keep standing by and doing nothing your going from the real world into the cuckold world. Time for you to step up to the plate and take charge of the situation. Your already couple chapters behind in the book so you better step on the gas and catch up real quick.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Marc878 said:


> Easy check. Look at your phone bill online. Takes 15 minutes.
> 
> If they are using co email they will probably be using private as well


It's important to note that, if they're using something like iMessage, Hangouts, WhatsApp, SnapChat, Kik, Viber, etc to communicate, it's not going to show up on the phone bill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

GusPolinski said:


> It's important to note that, if they're using something like iMessage, Hangouts, WhatsApp, SnapChat, Kik, Viber, etc to communicate, it's not going to show up on the phone bill.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


But if they are using third party software similar to Apptix to get company emails on their phones, with a little detective work he can set up his phone to get both sides of the conversation. As long as he does not open message that have not been opened by one of them - they will never know. He can look at deleted and opened message at his leisure and not worry about getting caught with her phone.

I know, I know. Could be trouble if someone found out what is happening.

But if it were my wife and my marriage at stake - I would take the chance.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bradj said:


> I kinda feel like I should wait a bit longer to see what transpires. I think she is going to view me as telling her who she can and cannot be friends with and view me as controlling. If she were to take it to the next level and it crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate there is no downplaying it like I am sure she will. Any thoughts on that?


 It has already "crossed a more definitive line of being inappropriate". Read your first post again where you say that "She also tells him all about our arguments and even about the letter I wrote her. I feel like my relationship with her is no longer private and he is privy to everything." What you just said is that he is Mr. Inside and you are Mr. Outside, and that they are the "us" with you being reduced to the role of just "him". They are talking about you behind your back where he knows everything about you and you knowing almost nothing about him. In marriage the two of you are suppose to be an exclusive relationship, with the two of you being the only "us". You know enough to put your foot down now. If you wait for more, it may be too late by then. Their bond is getting stronger as yours is getting weaker. Time is not on your side.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Whenever you decide to confront her, don't let her tell you that you're controlling and have trust issues. My SIL told my BIL this after he confronted her the first time. She also told him he needed therapy, so he backed down and went to therapy. She continued with her EA which eventually turned into a PA.

Also, your wife and the other guy may know that IT can monitor emails so they keep their work emails tame. You still need to check the phone bill and for texting apps for any other communication.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Reedit f-102 post to fit you.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/41508-emotional-affairs-sob-story.html

Next start a letter to her by saying have "have or will my actions cause this?"
Paste your edited version into letter and print out and leave out for her.

When she says why do you think that say "because while you are here your not here. The only reason people stop talking is because they have given up and begun to move on have you"? Yes I am terrified our marriage is over. Yes I have been on line, not on porn sites but at marriage builders. 

Do not stray off topic on how you know, accept the Blame, answer agreed what are we going to do about it? I know some of what I need to do, what else ? Are you all in and what does that mean to you.

Good luck.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

As to other posters, live aware, know they well might be right and take steps to build a post divorce life, but cross only the bridge in front of you.

You could be the one in a thousand person (regardless of gender) who can nip the bud of adultery before it happens. 

At all times own what you owe, and only what you owe. You have started to accept the debt of creating a toxic swamp. Her reactions are HER'S AND ONLY HER'S TO PAY !!!!


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

bradj said:


> Was thinking more all along the lines of seeing if any of their conversation goes from friendly to sexual. This is all new to me but EA seems kind of a gray line and I can see someone not even realizing they are doing that. Sexual conversation is much more black and white. I feel like if I confronted her now she would even convince herself that this is strictly platonic and there was never a risk of it going further.


You CANNOT be serious! The woman is SHARING HERSELF with a man who ISNT YOU! Women feel strong attachments to people we can open up to on a personal level...she is already IN an emotional affair! If you allow it to become sexual, you can pretty much kiss any chance you had of ending this good bye!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*Let's just say that if she hasn't cheated on you already, then she damned sure is on the way! You should already be in full-blown investagatory mode! 

It is not the norm for a married woman just to willy-nilly shut your water off without some form of justification like a suitor who has come on to the scene making overtures to her to preemptively get inside of her pants! 

Start with checking her cell-phone and texting records to see if there is one or two selective numbers that is in the repetitious mode and you'll likely find that they belong to the culprit! If they are, then you need to disclose their sordid actions to his W!

You need to read  No More Mr. Nice Guy by Dr. Robert Glover to exercise a better handle on things!

Sorry that this is happening to you, but you have come to the right place here at TAM! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Go dark, dump all the data you can, go through it, and do not confront before you're ready. Post here first. 

Most guys confront before they have the facts and just bury it further while being the controlling insecure *******, not the betrayed partner.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Your wife is playing with matches.

If she isn't careful she will burn the whole house down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

Even if she just feels like it is a friendship she is still getting her ego stroked by this person and she is needing/desiring that attention for some reason. 

When I was married I had an old boyfriend reach out to me and I justified talking to him because my husband was a very strong believer that if you had a good marriage you could flirt and be friendly with friends but not mess up. 

So I messaged back and forth with this old boyfriend a little and actually was giving him some relationship advice and encouragement. I was smitten and in love with my husband in every way and had absolutely NO INTENTION of wrecking my marriage with this silly kid I used to date. But in the conversation with this boyfriend we did reminisce about some fun we had in the past which was non sexual but was totally misinterpreted by my (now former) husband when I openly let him read all of the conversation. 

So...my husband was p!ssed!!! This was not the friendly flirting that he was, "ok," with. I was devastated that I had hurt him and knew deep down I would never want to be with that other guy but there was NO CONVINCING my husband of that. You probably need to give your wife a piece of that cake so she will realize what she has to lose. Treat her as though she has betrayed you, which she has. Don't give her the benefit of the doubt. She'll have to beg and earn your trust. But let her...if she means it. 

My former spouse never really let me back in. I am afraid my carelessness in my conversation with my old boyfriend started a tidal wave and about 8 months later my former spouse started being, "friends," with our female employee which eventually led to our separation, him getting her pregnant, and then our divorce. 

I was 110% committed to my spouse but let this old boyfriend stroke my ego on a day that I was feeling bored and neglected by my husband. I NEVER would have cheated physically and never meant to emotionally cheat. If your wife is already straying in this way you need to catch it and tell her what the repercussions will be and if she is truly sorry let her back in to your heart and be a man to her and make her feel desired.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Sorry you are here my friend.

Your wife is having an EA. 

I also think that she is already checked from your marriage. You did write her a letter and she never responded to you,saying she have no time. Well she have time to speak with OM about your letter and all your other things.

You should talk with OMs wife.Let her know what is happening.

If you really want to work on this marriage your wife HAVE to change her job. 
You let her going back there every single day then it is going to be a really bad for you and your kids.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

@OP: Below in blue is a post from another poster (F-102), that although it was written for a poster whose wife had reconnected with someone from her past, would still apply to your situation. 

Right now, the texts/conversations may very well be innocent, but soon they may morph into:

Their lives since they parted
Their relationships since they parted
Their families 
Their spouses 
You 
How you're an excellent father
How you're a great husband
How you're a wonderful guy
Your job
How your job keeps you busy
How your job keeps you away
How she sometimes feels lonely when you're away
How she sometimes feels a little overburdened at home
How she sometimes feels a little taken for granted
How it seems you don't ALWAYS listen to her
How it seems you don't ALWAYS understand her
How sometimes it seems that you are "not there" for her
How...okay, you're not ALWAYS such a wonderful guy
How she loved hearing from him
How she loves talking to him again
How she looks forward to his texts/calls/e-mails now
How she feels young again
How she feels appreciated again
How she feels attractive again
How it's been so, so long since you made her feel that way
How her eyes have been opened
How she now realizes what she truly wants and needs
How she now realizes that you don't give her that 
How she now realizes that she "settled" for you
How insensitive you can be sometimes
How you can be a real jerk sometimes
How she wonders if they would have stayed together
How she now realizes that she never really loved you
How she now realizes that she really loved him all along
How she ever could have fallen in love with a jerk like you
How you're the biggest a**hole she's ever known
How you're standing in the way of her true happiness
How you ruined her life
How she made a big mistake marrying you
How she made an even bigger mistake letting him get away
How they were really meant to be together
How she desperately has to get away from you
How she's definitely going to leave you
How she's been talking to divorce lawyers
How they're going to live happily ever after...

...get the picture?


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the comments and insight. I feel like most of you think I am naive but I still have a level of trust. I don't think she realizes what she is doing.

The other piece is from what I did read, the other guy is not trying to take things further. To give you an example, my wife was throwing out some "thats what she said" type jokes that were ripe for him to take advantage of as a segue into sexual talk. On one of the messages he said "the only reply I can think of is inappropriate so that being said, goodnight"

Obviously I am not a fan of this guy and their pen pal activity but I guess my point is it seems like he does not necessarily want to cheat on his wife either. I say this because there are a lot of comments essentially telling me there is no doubt, her trajectory is headed down a physical affair. I am not saying that is not possible, only that I do think her co-worker also has a conscious and it does not seem like he is preying on her. That being said, I feel like if he did get aggressive and try to take advantage of her, there would be a significant risk. 

Either way I do appreciate all the advice and thoughts. I have not talked to anyone about this so this forum has been my only channel for venting all of this.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Brad your missing one of the points here, she would spend the time writing to him rather to you, about your letter.....that is so deeply hurtful....that is a woman who would rather direct her attention else where, whether you realize it or not your plan b, plan a is anyone else that she can focus her attention on. That you don't need to prove...its black and white.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

He is not going to take "advantage of her". She is big girl-woman.
Also you have only seen her messages. What do you think they are doing at the job? Small talks,touches here and there are worse for me. She is seeing him every single day. 

One more thing-your wife is using work e-mail so she knows what she is doing is going to hurt you and your kids. She is deleting her messages. For a married woman this is really bad.

From my point EA is a lot worse then PA,so you need to act fast my friend.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

bradj said:


> I don't think she realizes what she is doing.


Having been in similar shoes as her...I think she realizes what she is doing or she would have nothing to hide. I thought I wasn't doing anything wrong talking to an old bf and mentioned it and then shared the messages with my (former) husband. I could have hidden the whole thing and he would have never known. It was innocent in my eyes. But I shared it with him and he was still hurt and then boom. 

I don't think your wife wants you to know. This is her little secret. The fact that she needs a little secret that makes her feel special is what concerns me.

Are you going to bring it up? Can you bring it up without seeming like you creeped on her phone?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Tremendously good advice you've been given
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

laroo said:


> Are you going to bring it up? Can you bring it up without seeming like you creeped on her phone?


i don't think i can. If you have suggestions I am all ears. That is my main challenge is that I think the whole conversation will be diverted to my invasion of privacy and her EA will be downplayed into a simple friendship that I am blowing out of proportion. She will think I am trying to control her and everything will be focused on me. Maybe I am weak but I am just not sure I can handle the **** storm that will come with me confronting her. It sucks.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

bradj said:


> i don't think i can. If you have suggestions I am all ears. That is my main challenge is that I think the whole conversation will be diverted to my invasion of privacy and her EA will be downplayed into a simple friendship that I am blowing out of proportion. She will think I am trying to control her and everything will be focused on me. Maybe I am weak but I am just not sure I can handle the **** storm that will come with me confronting her. It sucks.


I totally hear you. I think it is going to have to be your body language that does most of the talking once it is out in the open but I still need to think of how to initially bring it up. I'm still here I just need to think for a little bit.


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

Marc878 said:


> Step up your game. Make sure it's permanent. Show her by your actions. Take over part of the household duties. Remember marriage is 50/50. Then have a talk with her like she did you.
> 
> Be calm and cool. If you don't get through have a talk with the guy and his wife.
> 
> ...




Ya-know, I really don't understand this kind of thinking. What do household duties have to do with any type of affair. They're not even in the same class and have nothing to do with each other. PALEASE....

Now, you were irritating your wife by not (in her eyes), pulling your weight around the house. She COMMUNICATED to you, her feelings. 

You have come across e-mails with a male co-worker that has sent you to an infidelity forum. You need to COMMUNICATE to her that this is a severe infraction of your marital boundaries and she needs to put a stop to it. Any further inappropriate conversations with said co-worker will be a marriage game-changer. 

If you waffle or seem afraid, your wife will not take you seriously. 

Infidelity is not the same as not pitching in and pulling your weight. AT ALL. Infidelity causes an almost irepairable break in a marriage. 

If you are here, you are concerned and not happy. There is no need to be insecure about your feelings or how your wife will respond. Trust me, if you were e-mailing a co-worker personal details about your home life and relationship and it was kept from your wife, all hell would rain down on you and your home. 

I don't really see a need to investigate further or see how things play out. If your here, it's time to act.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ask her to use her phone.
Tell her yours is dead.
She will give you crap.
Probably tell you no... and the you can confront her for being a sneaky witch and you will not be with a women that has secretes.

Then ask her to leave and she can come back when she is ready to show you what ever is on that phone she doesn't want you to see.


BTW,don't forget to turn you phone off...you don't want her calling it to see if you are bull shyting her...The last thing you want is her calling it and it going off.

At the end of the day isn't the confrontation more about her keeping secret rather then what she is doing on her phone?

I guess my game plan does have one fault....she lets you use the phone!


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Bradj

Did you check your phone bill?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bradj said:


> Thanks everyone for the comments and insight. I feel like most of you think I am naive but I still have a level of trust. I don't think she realizes what she is doing.
> 
> The other piece is from what I did read, the other guy is not trying to take things further. To give you an example, my wife was throwing out some "thats what she said" type jokes that were ripe for him to take advantage of as a segue into sexual talk. On one of the messages he said "the only reply I can think of is inappropriate so that being said, goodnight"
> 
> ...


From what you have just said, your wife is the one fishing for the other man. The fact she has been disrespecting you is the icing on the cake.

You reek of fear. Your wife senses this and that drives her even further away.

Take charge or pack your bags.

Download the MARRIED MAN SEX LIFE PRIMER book at amazon.com right now. You don't have a clue what you're. Your kids lives are at stake.

Don't be the next in a long line to come back and say "you guys were right."

You have a tiny window of opportunity here, do not waste it.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

bradj said:


> i don't think i can. If you have suggestions I am all ears. That is my main challenge is that I think the whole conversation will be diverted to my invasion of privacy and her EA will be downplayed into a simple friendship that I am blowing out of proportion. She will think I am trying to control her and everything will be focused on me. Maybe I am weak but I am just not sure I can handle the **** storm that will come with me confronting her. It sucks.


Hey, if you don't have the stones you don't have the stones to save your family. All your going to end up with is limited visitation with your kids and an ex wife that's the mistress of another man. Not every man is cut out to be a husband and father. Not that anything is wrong with that.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> From what you have just said, your wife is the one fishing for the other man. The fact she has been disrespecting you is the icing on the cake.
> 
> You reek of fear. Your wife senses this and that drives her even further away.
> 
> ...


I can't emphasize enough how right Chaparral is about this one. We've seen this more times than we care to around these boards. You will be saying we were right one day. If we see your fear in writing, imagine how your wife is picking up your vibes. She can act with impunity because she knows she has you by the balls.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

Okay...so my former H would pick up my phone if he wanted to or get on my computer if he wanted to...casually...not like a jerk. He changed my name on the chat I was using to MRS. (my married name). It wasn't creepy, it was his right claiming his territory and deep down I liked it. As long as you aren't doing it all weird and defensive or with a guilty conscience or all mean and explosive then you should be golden. Easy as pie, right? NOT...

Alright so I am just going to throw some ideas out here. Of course if I was all knowing and knew what would work, that would be amazing. But maybe you can come up with your best game plan based on some of these thoughts. 

You can say, "hey you are on your phone so much come snuggle or watch this show with me. who are you talking to this late anyway?" maybe add, "...your other man?" To a woman doing what she is doing that may actually scare but also flatter her for a second if you don't say it in an angry way. But don't be goofy or overly friendly if you say that. You need to have a not mean but stern sexy look on your face. And then maybe say, "lemme see that." and ask for her phone. This might put a little fear or guilt in her if she's feeling that she's been doing something wrong. It could be enough to make her realize she could lose you if you find out and maybe she'll quit. And if she gives you the phone (expecting something bad to happen) maybe just take it...slowly...and then casually set it aside on the table and grab her gently and hold onto her. So she will be afraid for a second and then see you trust her. It doesn't all have to happen at once. You can drag this out a little bit and give her a chance to confess or change. Maybe make her shake in her boots a little. 

I'm not 100% sure about this so please anyone else chime in if you disagree. And really this has to come genuinely from you I'm just feeling your pain and I would want a game plan so I'm offering you ideas because...ideally...these things would come naturally...but...sadly...a lot of us have lost a lot of our instincts in self doubt and fear and I can't explain why but I just know it is true.

So I just think the best thing you can do is start being self assured...and start reaching out to her giving her some attention that makes her feel sexy. Watch some of the old "Paladin - Have Gun Will Travel" show or something if you need some man inspiration. If you can...maybe if she gets on her phone again be like, "gimme that," again...in a chill sexy way not grabby. And then flip through it and find the evidence and ask her what's up. Why is she talking to this guy? Why hasn't she come to you? What does this mean about trust between the two of you? Again don't yell and/or don't feel and show guilt for peeping! Just be disappointed. Let her say what she wants..., "oh he's just a friend,"...and then just give her the look...the look of disbelief...the silent stare...and keep repeating that she betrayed your trust...calmly...why did she confide in him? You really don't have to say much at this point. You can sort of treat her like a worm... a little bit...like if you go to a restaurant be nice to the staff whether they are good looking or not but treat the ladies like ladies deserve to be treated...and then sort of look at your wife blankly and don't be rude but let her feel like she is less than a lady to you at the moment. Don't flirt with anyone else by any means. But just make it clear that good ladies get good treatment and that she just gets your blank and disappointed stare at the moment. 

If she says sorry quickly don't accept it the first time...she's just saying it trying to fix things quickly and doesn't mean it. What is she going to do to make this right? She has to show you she is really sorry. You will know if she is or if she is just blowing smoke. Then at some point you may get the feeling that she either doesn't care or if she is grovelling and begging forgiveness you can decide then how you want to move forward. Just keep your cool and keep your feet on the ground. Silence is more powerful than an argument if you get stuck and feel like you are going to act like a wimp. Just focus on your posture and shake out your shoulders and lean back. We all have flaws in our relationships but infidelity is on another level and you have not done anything wrong so do not in any way shape or form apologize to her for anything about this.


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

Thanks guys for all the advice. It's hard to imagine the whole 0 to 60 situation in that this is the beginning of what will end up my wife divorcing me, taking everything and me losing custody of my kids. I know I am not winning any fans here and obviously that is not my goal, I was looking to be and have been very challenged in my initial passivity of it all. Is there anything to be said though about feeling like you know a person pretty well after being with them for 10 years? Now I get how that sounds. Well if I really knew her then she would not be in this EA. But we all fall short at times and misstep. If my character was judged by my worst actions I would probably be thought of as a bad person. I guess I just struggle to believe this is the beginning of the end. To paint an analogy, all the feedback I am getting here is I am driving a car towards the edge of a cliff. In my mind though I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole. I guess there is something to be said though about the overwhelmingly consistent feedback and that is an indicator that I am in denial.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

bradj said:


> Thanks guys for all the advice. It's hard to imagine the whole 0 to 60 situation in that this is the beginning of what will end up my wife divorcing me, taking everything and me losing custody of my kids. I know I am not winning any fans here and obviously that is not my goal, I was looking to be and have been very challenged in my initial passivity of it all. Is there anything to be said though about feeling like you know a person pretty well after being with them for 10 years? Now I get how that sounds. Well if I really knew her then she would not be in this EA. But we all fall short at times and misstep. If my character was judged by my worst actions I would probably be thought of as a bad person. I guess I just struggle to believe this is the beginning of the end. To paint an analogy, all the feedback I am getting here is I am driving a car towards the edge of a cliff. In my mind though I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole. I guess there is something to be said though about the overwhelmingly consistent feedback and that is an indicator that I am in denial.


Well, it's possible it's just a pothole.

I wouldn't want to bet on it though, as it would be the first time I've seen that result here with these symptoms.

Do you feel lucky?


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

technovelist said:


> Well, it's possible it's just a pothole.
> 
> I wouldn't want to bet on it though, as it would be the first time I've seen that result here with these symptoms.
> 
> Do you feel lucky?


It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

Chaparral said:


> *From what you have just said, your wife is the one fishing for the other man*. The fact she has been disrespecting you is the icing on the cake.
> 
> *You reek of fear. Your wife senses this and that drives her even further away.*
> 
> ...


Bradj needs to crush this EA. You're fighting for your marriage and your kids mother. Don't cower in fear of being called controlling or invading her privacy. Fvck that. She is betraying you and the kids. Because you didn't load the dishwasher or put the laundry away doesn't give her the right to be fishing for d!ck and that's exactly what she's doing as the pursuer. Your kids future stability hangs in the balance. 

Practically every time a WH comes here with that screaming gut and evidence of an EA and ignores the advice and goes nice guy, he's back but this time it's a PA. Go through the threads you'll see the trend. The BHs that go shock and awe from a manly frame, have remorseful wives and their fog clears up quickly. 

Time is not on your side. Not many men will pass up some married pvssy served up in a plate. They're at work and possibly having lunch and "smoke breaks together. Touching, glancing into each others eyes. You won't catch that in an email


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

I don't get the feeling that she is gone yet. She probably wouldn't be hiding her activity if she was so sure of her feelings one way or the other. I think what people are saying here is you may be in some critical point right now where you still have the chance to regain her respect. It really depends and please don't feel like the outcome will be your success or your fault. It still takes two. I know we all want our relationships to work out in our minds. But maybe the feeling in your gut is what you should trust though. If you don't have a natural instinct to be like, "babe! what's up!?" then maybe you will be happier being without her. Maybe she is a strain to you and you don't want to admit it with your head but your heart just isn't making you budge. If you want her don't be lazy! Be proactive. But don't be a jerk because that can push her away. You've got to be honest with her and tell her you are being honest with her and what you need to make the relationship work. 

And hey, if you want to just get it out there you can come out and say you already looked through her phone. It is the truth. Don't act defensive just say you felt like something was up and you saw what you saw and ask her what's up with it. Just no, "I'm sorrys," and no loud and mean and no wimpyness. Be stable and don't threaten her just let her know you know and let her stew over it. The more quiet you are the more she will come blabbing to you explaining things is my guess.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

bradj said:


> Thanks guys for all the advice. *It's hard to imagine the whole 0 to 60 situation in that this is the beginning of what will end up my wife divorcing me, taking everything and me losing custody of my kids.* I know I am not winning any fans here and obviously that is not my goal, I was looking to be and have been very challenged in my initial passivity of it all. Is there anything to be said though about feeling like you know a person pretty well after being with them for 10 years? Now I get how that sounds. Well if I really knew her then she would not be in this EA. But we all fall short at times and misstep. If my character was judged by my worst actions I would probably be thought of as a bad person. I guess I just struggle to believe this is the beginning of the end. To paint an analogy, all the feedback I am getting here is I am driving a car towards the edge of a cliff. In my mind though I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole. I guess there is something to be said though about the overwhelmingly consistent feedback and that is an indicator that I am in denial.





bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


The truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

Again, what you've described here w/ respect to what you've seen of the correspondence between your wife and her co-worker is more or less TEXTBOOK pre-affair talk.

And about the 10 years thing? Please. People are shocked to find their spouses in affairs after 15, 20, 25, even 30 years together.

Do your due diligence and follow up on this.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

Do you go to the gym? Start going to the gym. Do something that makes you feel better. You will start feeling better and more confident and looking and feeling better to her too and she will get curious about you being at the gym. It is harmless. You are doing nothing wrong. But it is a good positive thing for you to do right now.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


In most case here at TAM we see alot of these cases go bad.

Just look at it as a warning and take what you can from folks that have been hurt.

Being one of the oldest members still around we just don't like to see people get hurt.....but the reality is people always get hurt here at TAM when it comes to matters such as this.

I think we all hope your case is one of the rare ones and you come out a head and your old lady starts respecting you again and more importantly you can start having the self respect to no longer share your wife no matter which way this goes.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

laroo said:


> Do you go to the gym? Start going to the gym. Do something that makes you feel better. You will start feeling better and more confident and looking and feeling better to her too and she will get curious about you being at the gym. It is harmless. You are doing nothing wrong. But it is a good positive thing for you to do right now.


I've said this a hundred times and I'll say it again...."chicks dig confident guy"

At the very least if you are not going to confront then at least raise your attraction level by working out.

For what it's worth, Mrs. the-guy says and I quote {in a so cal mousy voice} "you know like if he doesn't confront she will like keep on doing what she is doing you know"....

Yep folks...Mrs. the-guy has piped in on this one:surprise:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Xenote said:


> Brad your missing one of the points here, she would spend the time writing to him rather to you, about your letter.....that is so deeply hurtful....that is a woman who would rather direct her attention else where, whether you realize it or not your plan b, plan a is anyone else that she can focus her attention on. That you don't need to prove...its black and white.


*The above description so aptly gives credence to what my "loving" RSXW was doing behind my back all while pretensively holding the strings of my heart in her hands, and giving her phantasmagoric attention to men that I barely or had never even knew!

That, my friend, is the absolute epitome of the word "betrayal!" It mattered not that she was covertly enjoying giving them access to her physical wares; the non physical verbal overtures to them all but defined her lechery to a tee! Her physical betrayal was nothing more than a consummation/justification of her jaded emotional overtures!

The only thing that it proved was her gross dishonesty! One day, she'll have to "fess-up" to a higher authority. But in her minds eye, her justification will dictate to her that that day will likely never come to fruition!

That she will always be the recipient of an eternal "free pass" to betray anyone that she chooses to ~ and without any real accountive repercussion to ever have to deal with or account for! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her.


If you say so ......


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## Cool_Dude (Nov 28, 2015)

Probably try to get closer to her. She needs a friend and that might have caused this. It should go away once you are on good terms.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


I think you're reading the advice wrong. It's far from hopeless but there are things you need to fix permanently and you have to dispose of the other man immediately. Get rid of him first. I suspect you have enough evidence to put an end to that. Did you ever check your phone bill???

You cannot ever fix a marriage with another man in the mix. 

Make time for your wife. Women need some intimate time to talk, etc not just sex. 

You need to fill that void.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Cool_Dude said:


> Probably try to get closer to her. She needs a friend and that might have caused this. It should go away once you are on good terms.


Excellent advice. 

You and her need to do some fun things together. It'll make a stronger bond between you. Doesn't have to be anything expensive or special, just fun. Something she likes or you both have an interest in.


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## eastsouth2000 (Jul 21, 2015)

Just read this is Emotional Affair might be leading to a Physical Affair.

I suggest that you communicate.

If you have problem voicing out things..
Go to marriage counseling.. they will help you with words...

your wife is having an emotional affair! 

Nip it in the bud!



bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


everyone here may be speaking on experience...

in my experience and through the number of threads that I have read. your wife is having an emotional affair.

either fix it or divorce. either she shows willingness on her part or divorce.

either way though If I were you I'd prepare for the worse.

Again my advice is to get some counseling. They do and can help specially if you cannot make a solid argument against your wifes actions. which to me is blatantly disrespectful to the marriage and to you. personal boundaries have already been crossed.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

bradj said:


> Was thinking more all along the lines of seeing if any of their conversation goes from friendly to sexual. This is all new to me but EA seems kind of a gray line and I can see someone not even realizing they are doing that. Sexual conversation is much more black and white. I feel like if I confronted her now she would even convince herself that this is strictly platonic and there was never a risk of it going further.


I am pretty sure they use different avenues for communication. There are a million chat apps available today. You found the emails. But there might be other avenues they might be using. So, keep your calm and keep investigation. She is actively deleting messages. So she knows she is doing a mistake and she is hiding in explicitly. This is a huge huge red flag.

Snapchat does not keep a history of sent text and pictures. I've heard similar things about Kik messenger. There are even apps that hide apps behind another fake app. 

Another thing is, cheaters magnify the faults in their partners to justify their cheating. You can always improve your dad skills but they might not be as bad as she portrays you to be. She is your wife and she is someone you really trust but "gaslighting" is something that is very common during affairs. SO keep that in perspective.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

bradj said:


> i don't think i can. If you have suggestions I am all ears. That is my main challenge is that I think the whole conversation will be diverted to my invasion of privacy and her EA will be downplayed into a simple friendship that I am blowing out of proportion. She will think I am trying to control her and everything will be focused on me. Maybe I am weak but I am just not sure I can handle the **** storm that will come with me confronting her. It sucks.


Once you get married, there are "loving your wife and doing what she wants" guys and there are those "without any self respect and are easy doormats" guys.

Currently I have you in the later category. You are scared. You are weak. Your wife is bullying you and you cannot even muster up the courage to confront her. 

Your first instinct was to go into denial about her affair. Now you are scared to even talk to her or why she is deleting mail to her co-worker.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

bradj said:


> It's not that I feel lucky. It's more that I still have some trust and faith in her. According to everyone on this thread though that is me being naive and a lack of balls. I get it, I am not offended by those statements. I came on here to hear all perspectives. I've just been surprised by how hopeless everyone feels my situation is. It is what it is I guess.


Your situation is far from hopeless. It is your attitude to it and your fear that is making people lose hope. There are marriages that have recovered from far far worse stuff.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

bradj said:


> To paint an analogy, all the feedback I am getting here is I am driving a car towards the edge of a cliff. In my mind though I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole. I guess there is something to be said though about the overwhelmingly consistent feedback and that is an indicator that I am in denial.


 Going with your cliff vs pot hole analogy, you think that if you continue down this path and just slow down over the pot hole that everything will be fine. Most here are saying that it may be a cliff and that even going over it slowly will still leave you dead. The safe thing to do is to assume that it may be a cliff and to change your path, because the down side of being wrong could leave you dead. Similarly you must assume that she is having an emotional affair (EA) with this other man (OM), and demand that she bring her relationship with this OM to a complete end. So what if she gets mad, she is acting out of bounds even if she is not in an EA (which she is). If your wife is not having an EA, and ends your marriage over keeping what is just a friendship, then your marriage had no long term future anyways.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Cool_Dude said:


> Probably try to get closer to her. She needs a friend and that might have caused this. It should go away once you are on good terms.


Yep. Her needs are not being met. Start meeting those needs, and she will be texting you and not that coworker.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

While you do need to work on your closeness, do not believe for ONE SECOND it will work with the other man in the picture. No, she will not magically tell you everything again, it will put you in a holding pattern until something upsets her again.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

jld said:


> Yep. Her needs are not being met. Start meeting those needs, and she will be texting you and not that coworker.


Oh god, not you...just, stop. She is in the wrong here, and it needs to be addressed and stopped.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

3Xnocharm said:


> Oh god, not you...just, stop. She is in the wrong here, and it needs to be addressed and stopped.


Another poster suggested confessing that he looked through her phone. He could do that. It would be honest and open. Maybe she would be relieved.

But if he does not start meeting her needs, she is unlikely to reattach to him. She might just start talking to someone else. 

There really is no way to get around meeting those needs, OP. They will not go unmet forever. Make sure *you* are the one meeting them.


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## Katiemelanie (Apr 20, 2015)

I have been on both sides of this. If your wife is spending more time with someone else, confiding in them when she should be confiding in you, working on her friendship harder and more than your marriage...then she is cheating. And it may not be sexual or romantic (yet), but marriage takes hard work and it seems like she has given up. I would bring it up to her and tell her how you feel. Waiting for something to happen will only make things worse...especially if she hasn't slept with him yet.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> While you do need to work on your closeness, do not believe for ONE SECOND it will work with the other man in the picture. No, she will not magically tell you everything again, it will put you in a holding pattern until something upsets her again.


How many threads have we seen on TAM, LS, SI, and other boards with husbands who were doing all the right things and still got betrayed. 

Bradj could turn it around completely and his wife would still be sneaking around. She's already hooked and vested in keeping it going. She'll find fault with the way he loads dishwasher, the way he folds the laundry, how he bathes the kids because OM has already planted in her head how he would do things differently. He probably told his wife that he would not spend his time doing x with a wife like her. Bradj's compliments will fall in death ears. "Oh, you're just saying that because you're my husband. You have to say nice things." 

I'm hoping that Bradj's absence is that he's confronting and not buckling under the you're controlling meme that cheating woman always throw out or turning it around on him that his "invasion of her privacy" is a bigger problem than her pursuing OM. 
@bradj , I sending you positive energy and a virtual shove forward to stand strong for yourself and your kids. They can't fight for the family. Only you can.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

bradj,

From where I sit I see two separate issues that need to be dealt with separately:

1. Your previously not pulling your weight around the house. 

I think I know exactly what your wife is feeling. My H was like that for 24 years. He did the things he liked, and left the unpleasant things up to me. I was one very unhappy lady, and I regularly let him know why I was unhappy. His fragile ego told him that I was just an unhappy person, and that he could do nothing right, so he ignored me. I would have loved to go to the park, play with the children, take them to fun places, etc., but I was too busy doing all the menial labor to have time or emotional energy for more activities! Now that he is finally looking inside of himself, and changing, I am not longer verbalizing unhappiness, because I am happier that he is finally hearing me (not _listening_ to me, but _hearing_ me.)

H knows that I now look at what he actually does, rather than listen to what he _says_ he does.

During all those years I didn't cheat no matter how unhappy I was. At year 19, H was the one who felt entitled to stroke his low self esteem by stepping outside the marriage.

2. Your wife is emotionally attached to a man, and that man is not you. 

She is having intimate, although not sexual (as far as you know) conversations with a man. The path she is on is right off a cliff. Eventually they will end up in each other's arms.

My H's A started with the woman complaining about her H. To this day he says he was not actively looking for an A, although he realizes that because of his fragile ego he was ripe for one eventually. He felt like a hero that a younger, pretty woman confide in him, and became attracted to him. He didn't realize that she had already had an A with a married man, and was a predator and found her affair partners by looking like a wounded bird. Is your wife like this?


The two of you need to sit down at some point and hash out mutually acceptable boundaries regarding people of the opposite sex. If she refuses to have boundaries, but thinks she is being controlled, then the onus is on you to decide if you want to be in a relationship with a woman who is a ticking time bomb for an affair.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> How many threads have we seen on TAM, LS, SI, and other boards with husbands who were doing all the right things and still got betrayed.


 No , those men were Beta and weak./sarcasm

It was one of the weirdest shifts I have ever witnessed. Too bad you weren't here for RDMU's three threads.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

jld said:


> Another poster suggested confessing that he looked through her phone. He could do that. It would be honest and open. Maybe she would be relieved.
> 
> But if he does not start meeting her needs, she is unlikely to reattach to him. She might just start talking to someone else.
> 
> There really is no way to get around meeting those needs, OP. They will not go unmet forever. Make sure *you* are the one meeting them.


How long is it going to take for you to learn something about infidelity?

When you start posting on an infidelity thread, divorce is sure to follow.


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## Be smart (Feb 22, 2015)

Some of the members told you to go for Counseling. It is fine with me,but first you need to confront your wife about her cheating. Yes having EA is cheating and it is even worse then PA.

After you do that she needs to have NC with OM and she have to change her job. She is seeing him every single day and nobody here on TAM or the best therapist in the world is not going to help you if you let it go.

I hope you read all of our post but read one from @IMFarAboveRubies.

Good luck to you.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Print out snippets of pertinent emails and tell your wife that someone from her office sent this to you. Lie your ass off, even if you had something rock solid you never give up your source anyhow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

Be smart said:


> Some of the members told you to go for Counseling. It is fine with me,but first you need to confront your wife about her cheating. Yes having EA is cheating and it is even worse then PA.
> 
> After you do that she needs to have NC with OM and she have to change her job. She is seeing him every single day and nobody here on TAM or the best therapist in the world is not going to help you if you let it go.
> 
> ...


Is that how most people feel? Men and women? I personally think a PA would be worse than an EA, at least for me.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

Slow Hand said:


> Is that how most people feel? Men and women? I personally think a PA would be worse than an EA, at least for me.


I think a PA can just be fleeting like a one night stand but when you get emotionally involved with someone...at least when a woman does...she probably wants something more long term and she loses connection with her other man in the process. 

Either way it hurts but at least a person can regret a PA and let it go without having gotten attached to the other person.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

laroo said:


> I think a PA can just be fleeting like a one night stand but when you get emotionally involved with someone...at least when a woman does...she probably wants something more long term and she loses connection with her other man in the process.
> 
> Either way it hurts but at least a person can regret a PA and let it go without having gotten attached to the other person.


Well, maybe it's because my love language is physical touch, but I know a PA would just devastate me. Don't get me wrong, an EA is also betrayal and would hurt real bad, but I'd be more inclined to work it out over an EA than a PA. With a PA, I just don't think I would even want to try.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

Slow Hand said:


> Well, maybe it's because my love language is physical touch, but I know a PA would just devastate me. Don't get me wrong, an EA is also betrayal and would hurt real bad, but I'd be more inclined to work it out over an EA than a PA. With a PA, I just don't think I would even want to try.


I hear you. Maybe there isn't really one that is worse than the other. I do think finding out about and/or witnessing a physical affair can cause some serious ptsd and not to mention disgust for both parties. But if I think about how my loved one had a number of girlfriends before he ever met me I can wrap my head around the possibility that if he regretted what he did I could just see it as a mistake he made. 

I guess I've just lost a lot of innocence and I realize that people can end up back together later even after being with someone else. Sometimes timing isn't right for one or the other. I am just being totally accepting about the fact that people have flaws and can be immature or unready and we all want to be ready but we can be weak and unsure and everyone has to reach the point where they really choose to commit in their own time and some never do. 

I feel like an emotional bond is stronger and more threatening because in the long run the sex won't be there as much so finding someone you connect with on a deeper level who meets your emotional needs probably means you won't be going back to the relationship where those needs weren't being met.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

bradj said:


> Thanks everyone for the comments and insight. I feel like most of you think I am naive but I still have a level of trust. I don't think she realizes what she is doing.
> 
> The other piece is from what I did read, the other guy is not trying to take things further. To give you an example, my wife was throwing out some "thats what she said" type jokes that were ripe for him to take advantage of as a segue into sexual talk. On one of the messages he said "the only reply I can think of is inappropriate so that being said, goodnight"
> 
> ...


Your wife is trying to take the conversations to a sexual level - HUGE RED FLAG. She wants to go there but he is not playing along - yet. It is not OM who is the aggressor in this relationship. IT IS YOUR WIFE. If you don't shut this down now. Your wife will be the one to suggest that they meet outside of work and outside of your marriage to "see if there is anything there" - translation - have sex.

The level of trust you say you have for your wife should have just evaporated.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here and married ongoing 36 years (first marriage for the both of us). From your posts of what you've read in your wife's phone, she is aggressively pursuing this man. Your wife is sending messages that could be an open door of a sexual nature and the Other Man is not replying her on her comments as he deemed a response would be inappropriate. You also mentioned that he is married.

You need to talk to the Other Man and his wife, without blaming him. His wife will be more than willing to stop this emotional affair. Acknowledge that you know that your wife is the aggressor. Tell them that you need to stop this behavior now. You might be successful in intervening this budding affair, but I believe that your wife may seek another man.

Tell your wife that you know that your marriage is in trouble. Do the chores that you need to do as a father. Get a marriage counselor ASAP and get some help in putting this marriage on track. In addition as part of mending your marriage, make it a condition that all forms of communication (electronics & social media) be transparent.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Roselyn said:


> You need to talk to the Other Man and his wife, without blaming him. His wife will be more than willing to stop this emotional affair. Acknowledge that you know that your wife is the aggressor. Tell them that you need to stop this behavior now. You might be successful in intervening this budding affair, but I believe that your wife may seek another man.
> .


I was going to post similar advice but you worded it way better than me.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

laroo said:


> I think a PA can just be fleeting like a one night stand but when you get emotionally involved with someone...at least when a woman does...she probably wants something more long term and she loses connection with her other man in the process.
> 
> Either way it hurts but at least a person can regret a PA and let it go without having gotten attached to the other person.


In general (and of course there are exceptions), men are more concerned about their wives having physical affairs, and women are more concerned about their husbands having emotional affairs.

This is understandable in the evo-psych paradigm, having to do with women's (but not men's) sexuality being considered valuable, and with men's ability to provide being considered valuable to women.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Slow Hand said:


> Well, maybe it's because my love language is physical touch, but I know a PA would just devastate me. Don't get me wrong, an EA is also betrayal and would hurt real bad, but I'd be more inclined to work it out over an EA than a PA. With a PA, I just don't think I would even want to try.


Many people say this until they read and see the correspondence. It usually contains private family business, secrets, "I love yous" and severe spouse bashing. To me, it is easier to convince someone "we just screwed" than reading months, sometimes years, of correspondence showing how long and how much they lied to you.

I still think certain PAs are much worse, but not by much.


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## Slow Hand (Oct 4, 2015)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Many people say this until they read and see the correspondence. It usually contains private family business, secrets, "I love yous" and severe spouse bashing. To me, it is easier to convince someone "we just screwed" than reading months, sometimes years, of correspondence showing how long and how much they lied to you.
> 
> I still think certain PAs are much worse, but not by much.


Yeah, I'm glad I didn't find any type of correspondence, I hope there was nothing to find. I'm sure that would be a tough read for sure.


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

So my wife changed the pass code on her phone. When we went on a trip today I picked up her phone to map our destination and then asked why she changed it. She made up an excuse about work requirements and resetting passwords. Anyways at that point I asked her what was going on, is she cheating because her actions are really weird. She got all defensive and basically got mad at me for even asking.

Theres a bit more to it but basically she gave me nothing. So when we got home I messaged the guy thru social media and said we need to chat. Here is the actual convo:

Hi Michael, I need to chat with you tomorrow about your relationship with wifesname. I'd like to keep our chat between the two of us, just like I would also like to leave hiswifesname out of it. Let me know what time you can meet tomorrow. If I don't hear back from you though I will have to try to reach you through your wife instead.

I am more than happy to chat with you however I am merely friends with your wife. Your wife vents to me when she gets fustrated. That's it I am busy all morning but happy to talk after noon.

5:18 PM
I definitely would not be reaching out to you if you two had a typical friendship believe me. Lets meet at coffee bean near your office at 1pm and we can get into more detail.

-----

Any advice on the types of questions to ask him?


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

Your wife will not allow you to have coffee with her boyfriend. You're just driving it deeper underground.

Marriage has room for privacy but not for secrets. There is a reason she changed her passcode and that's your issue. You need to IMMEDIATELY stand up for yourself - SHE is your problem, he's just some schmuck looking to get laid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bradj (Nov 27, 2015)

eric1 said:


> Your wife will not allow you to have coffee with her boyfriend. You're just driving it deeper underground.
> 
> Marriage has room for privacy but not for secrets. There is a reason she changed her passcode and that's your issue. You need to IMMEDIATELY stand up for yourself - SHE is your problem, he's just some schmuck looking to get laid.
> 
> ...


But he isn't if you read my other comments. I get she is the problem but she is not out on ****** *******. This thing has developed over time. I feel like most replies here are "dude your screwed, man up, grow balls and tell her you went thru her ****, contact a divorce lawyer, etc..' I am trying to handle this in a calculated and subtle way but everyone seems to think brute force in your face is the only way.

I don't want a divorce and I do think my wife does not realize what she is getting into. I am also reaching out to marriage counselors to try to get into that. So far I have emailed like 15 of them, already got 3 replies though that they don't accept my insurance. Eventually I will find one that does.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I am not convinced this is a good idea.

Take a VAR, take a witness or two or better, cancel.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

bradj said:


> Any advice on the types of questions to ask him?


I think what MattMatt said is good advice. Just be careful. 

So if you do go...the first thing that comes to my mind is saying that if your wife ever goes to vent to him again tell him to advise her to talk to her husband about it and to SHUT HER DOWN. Respectfully. Don't make it like they are little kids getting separated by daddy but just ask him...as a dude...to respectfully quit that sh!t! And like you said if he says anything to her about it (more secrets) you go directly to his wifey!

I'm not sure that you need to ask any questions. You already know what she's doing. He might try to minimize it because he'll feel threatened, as well. He's probably sweating right now. And hopefully regretting talking to your wife at all.


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## eric1 (Apr 10, 2015)

bradj said:


> But he isn't if you read my other comments. I get she is the problem but she is not out on ****** *******. This thing has developed over time. I feel like most replies here are "dude your screwed, man up, grow balls and tell her you went thru her ****, contact a divorce lawyer, etc..' I am trying to handle this in a calculated and subtle way but everyone seems to think brute force in your face is the only way.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want a divorce and I do think my wife does not realize what she is getting into. I am also reaching out to marriage counselors to try to get into that. So far I have emailed like 15 of them, already got 3 replies though that they don't accept my insurance. Eventually I will find one that does.



There is no brute force necessary. You have called her out on this a few times and all you've done is drive her deeper underground, into different apps and with more secrecy.

And now you're expecting the person who didn't make any vows to you to do the heavy lifting because your wife will not?

I'm not saying to serve her with papers, I'm suggesting calling bull**** on her hiding things. If she has absolutely nothing to hide, and you explain your extreme unrest then she should be VERY willing to unlock your phone and show you what's going on. If nothing is going on what's the big deal from her perspective?

Also, her affair partner is saying that they only communicate because she likes to vent to him. You've read the entirety of their conversations, is it all 'venting'? Also, when you guys are out on a nice date, why is she 'venting' while at the table with you.

You were born during the day, but you were not born yesterday man. 

Again, I'm not trying to be an arse, I'm simply restating what you've already posted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

eric1 said:


> SHE is your problem


I do also believe this to be true. She has a better chance of regretting it and wanting forgiveness if you make sure she can feel through your body language right now that there is a big GAP of doubt and distrust between you. That you know something but don't throw it totally in her face. 

Don't JUST try to fix it by making him turn her away. You need to deal with her too. 

And you don't have to stop your physical relationship if you don't want to like you don't have to give her the total cold shoulder but she'll feel it if something is off and if she is losing your respect. 

(sorry I feel like I'm sounding bossy these are just ideas)


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

eric1 said:


> I'm suggesting calling bull**** on her hiding things. If she has absolutely nothing to hide, and you explain your extreme unrest then she should be VERY willing to unlock your phone and show you what's going on. If nothing is going on what's the big deal from her perspective?


If she gets mad about you bringing it up or you bring it up and well just ANY TIME she is defensive from here on out just, calmly, say, "bull***, why should I believe you? you are hiding something" or something like that, and don't get all arguey and say lots of other things and stick up for yourself just keep saying the same dang thing..."bull***, why should I believe you? you are hiding something". That is all you give her. That she's sh!tting you and until she proves otherwise (and don't tell her she has to prove it just keep saying, "bull****,") you just blank stare in disappointment and disbelief that she would do this and go about your business and let her come to you if she will. If you leave empty space (air, silence) between you I think she will eventually try to fill it.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> So my wife changed the pass code on her phone. When we went on a trip today I picked up her phone to map our destination and then asked why she changed it. She made up an excuse about work requirements and resetting passwords. Anyways at that point I asked her what was going on, is she cheating because her actions are really weird. She got all defensive and basically got mad at me for even asking.
> 
> Theres a bit more to it but basically she gave me nothing. So when we got home I messaged the guy thru social media and said we need to chat. Here is the actual convo:
> 
> ...


My take on the conversation: you are firm and calm. Take no excuses. Period. This is your wife, life, family, etc. YOU take command!!!!

Let him start, explain, etc. 

Then:

The amount of time you two spend emailing/etc is concerning. I would never correspond with your wife or any woman like that. Especially on company time.

Does your wife know how much time/effort you are putting into this??? How about your supervisors at work???

If they find out what do you think will happen???!

Finish with: I hope I don't ever have to address this issue again because if I do it won't be with you. Do you understand me?



Were you able to collect any regular phone messages, etc????? I suspect they will be there too.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I think your approach of talking with him could be a good start for you. Make sure you stay strong and matter-of-fact with him. Don't be overly polite or talk around the issue. Tell him that it doesn't matter to you if she is 'only venting' to him. You don't like it and it has to end. Otherwise, you will see how his wife views their 'friendship.' He may spin some story to his W at this point to throw her off ('crazy H of my co-worker,' etc.), but there's nothing you can do about that possibility now.

(Personally, I would have gone directly to his W and not alerted your W beforehand, but you've started down this road, so stay strong as you follow through.)


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

It may be a good idea for a VAR but I would do this alone man to man


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Since you set up a meeting with the coworker, here is what you should ask. 

Why is my wife venting to you about our problems?

Are you a licensed marriage therapist?

Is your wife aware that a female coworker is bonding with you by venting her personal/marriage issues?

Don't you think it's inappropriate that you are letting her form this personal bond with you ?

What are your intentions regarding my wife?

What form of communication are you two using communicate? Person to person? Email? Text? Phone? Text app?

Tell him this...."This is what you will tell her next time she reaches out to you.......I'm sorry for your marital problems, but you need to talk to your husband about this. I'm not qualified to give you advise. I don't like where this is going!!! My wife would not approve of me being another married woman's sounding board.... Good luck" and that the last contact you will have with her....got it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

If you get a chance read Not Just Friends. Then give it to your wife.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

This is a good first step in eliminating this person. 

The second step is work on your issues and fix them permanently.

You will have to addres your wife at some point. You can't put off every guy around. She has no boundaries. You may address it in a calm rational manner like I'm fixing my issues you brought up now you need to fix yours. This behavior is dangerous to a marriage and it's unacceptable. 

Bring up the points you made to the guy. Simple and direct. I know what's up and no excuses. Period


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

1st question. Do you want your wife to know about this friendship, if so lets both talk to her?

2nd question, Is it worth getting your @ss beat by continuing this friendship?

3rd question, Are you going to continue this friendship with my wife?

I guess what you do after that is up to you, but I would drag him out of that coffee shop and see if he takes a swing at you and then hit him in the gut as hard as you can. Don't draw blood by hitting him in the face.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> But he isn't if you read my other comments. I get she is the problem but she is not out on ****** *******. This thing has developed over time. I feel like most replies here are "dude your screwed, man up, grow balls and tell her you went thru her ****, contact a divorce lawyer, etc..' I am trying to handle this in a calculated and subtle way but everyone seems to think brute force in your face is the only way.
> 
> I don't want a divorce and I do think my wife does not realize what she is getting into. I am also reaching out to marriage counselors to try to get into that. So far I have emailed like 15 of them, already got 3 replies though that they don't accept my insurance. Eventually I will find one that does.


OP your wife knows it's wrong or she wouldn't be hiding her phone. Period. You will need full transparency for you and her.


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## ballygirl1971 (Nov 20, 2012)

Sorry buddy. It's emotional cheating. Sexual affair comes next. Been down this road, trust me! May not be with him but it WILL happen eventually. Good luck
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

ballygirl1971 said:


> Sorry buddy. It's emotional cheating. Sexual affair comes next. Been down this road, trust me! May not be with him but it WILL happen eventually. Good luck
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I don't know I posted earlier how I had an old bf start messaging me once and I really knew how I felt deep down that I'd never physically be with him again but that didn't keep me from chit chatting and enjoying the attention from him. 

I really did feel it was innocent so much that I mentioned our conversation and shared the messages with my husband without him asking. He blew up feeling like some of the things I said were putting him down and boosting my friend's ego. I really didn't mean it that way but...regardless...

The way my husband reacted was on point. I regretted disappointing him and hurting him with all my heart. Now like I said I had no intention of leaving when I was messaging this guy but sure I had some complaints about the marriage but there is a depth to how far you will go so I wouldn't say this situation is hopeless. 

Be prepared to be pissed but don't give up yet.

And I definitely learned a lesson I will never make the stupid mistake again of threatening and taking for granted something good. It is all going to come down to how much she values what you have together. So be strong...go to the gym...be stern. Be amazing, because you are and she needs to see that.


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

If your WS scolds you for contacting the OM to to talk with him, you'll have confirmed two things.

1) That she is in CLOSE contact with him. The kind of contact befitting of a romantically involved couple.

2) That she has a higher regard for the OM's feelings than that of yours.

May I ask why you've been putting up with this for so long? Do you think that she would be sitting idly by if the roles were reversed?

This has nothing to do with privacy, or trust. It's about poor boundaries and mutual respect in a relationship. Right now, she's failing dismally at both.


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

A shoulder to cry on today is a di....ck to ride on tomorrow. Believe me on this.

The changing of the passcode is a huge red flag. Do not believe a word he says at the meeting. I bet they are sorting their stories straight right now.

If there was nothing going on she wouldnt have the phone glued to her hip with a new pass code. There is stuff on it she doesnt want you to see.

Crush this now hard and fast. No friends of the opposite sex period. At present you have described an emotional affair that will turn into a physical affair quick smart.

I dont know if anyone else has mentioned this but buy yourself a a VAR and hide it in her car strapped under her seat. Bet you catch them out quick smart. Especially now that you have arranged a sit down with him.

Please listen to us on this. You have a real chance to save your relationship here. Just man up and do what needs to be done.


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## thenub (Oct 3, 2014)

Maybe her co-worker would let you read the messages she sent him? Ask him to show them to you and ask if his wife would approve.


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## laroo (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm not sure what other folks on the forum think but I have been told by someone that if they had read Men are from Mars , Women are from Venus it might have saved their marriage. I have started reading it and so far I like it. 

Another thing I was shown during counseling was the thing about choosing to be the victim, villain or hero http://www.joyofconflict.com/Articles/ConflictDrama-VictimVillainHero.pdf 

I kind of feel like the cheating party feels like a damsel in distress and there's a knight who is going to save her and you can either be a villain or be a knight but I think the overall thing is really a personal thing about just choosing who you want to be in life regardless of what those around you are doing.


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## tpdallas (Aug 28, 2015)

It bothers me that she shared a private letter from you. 

That is betrayal.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Tell him that the friendship is not appropriate for married people and needs to stop. That's it. You can't reason with these people. They spend alot of their own energy justifying their own actions to themselves.

What is happening is that your wife was not getting her needs met in her marriage to you, so she turned to someone else. You have all the information you need in order to act at this point. Now, people will say that her needs revolve around you doing more chores with the kids, and yet this man does no chores with the kids.... What is he doing? He is making her feel good. That's what you have to do. Make her feel good instead of making her feel bad. Does your wife know you think she is a wonderful mother? Does your wife know she makes you happy? Does your wife know you think she is beautiful? Do you thank your wife and show her appreciation?

Through a stroke of luck your wife is wrapped up with a guy who does not want to cheat on his wife, or else yes she would already be cheating. But as long as your marriage is not fun and you are not having sex and your wife's phone is locked, you have 100% of the information you need to know that your marriage is not functioning.

I would start things off with one speech along the lines of this... "Wife, our marriage is not working for either of us. I have though about this and what I want in my life is a great marriage. A great marriage to me is a fun marriage. A marriage where we both get our needs met by each other, we have alot of sex, we have alot of communication, we have alot of fun... And our mutual satisfaction is what gives the kids the greatest life possible.. I know that I have alot of things I can do to make your life more fulfilling, fun and so forth.. It will take alot of work on BOTH our parts to create something great. But I am committed to this... What I want you to think about and tell me is are you interested in making a commitment to a great marriage?... I want you to think about that and let me know tomorrow".

If she makes a committment to a great marriage, you then have to start working a plan.... Early on you tell her that locking her phone is not acceptable to you because it is incompatible with a great marriage.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Forgot to add:
Do not reveal your sources!!!!
Let him tell you how they communicate and what they say!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tobyboy said:


> Forgot to add:
> Do not reveal your sources!!!!
> Let him tell you how they communicate and what they say!!!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You seem to keep missing this point. You have to keep quiet about how you know things or your sources will be cut off.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Also, don't be surprise if he cancels your meeting and says that he told his wife about his communications with your wife. Although it my be true, you will have to verify anyways!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm late to the thread but here's my take on your situation;

This is an EA. No other way to frame it. There's a solid chance this will turn in to a PA (if it already hasn't) should you allow it to continue.

Not a good idea to meet with the OM. It makes you look weak in her eyes and his eyes; implying that you are not capable of or afraid of, handling this directly with your wife - which for now, seems to be the case. Exposing your suspicions directly to his wife without informing him would have been the best approach.

There are other types of betrayal besides an EA or PA; and sharing intimate details of your marriage with any friend; particularly an opposite sex friend, is certainly a serious betrayal - EA or not. 

You, like many other BS's we see here, let their fear of divorce cause them to make bad decisions. Ultimately, divorce has to be on the table in a situation like this; or you are utterly defenseless. You must be willing to go through with a D if she continues to disrespect you.

Bottom line; you should tell her that though you can't control what she does, you can control what you accept from her - and you will no longer accept anything less than complete no-contact between the two of them and complete transparency from her.


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## kenmoore14217 (Apr 8, 2010)

Interesting read however Brad's preoccupation w/ how he is perceived versus how his marriage is perceived is telling. Sorry you're having problems but I believe this falls at your feet, not your wife's.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

bradj said:


> So my wife changed the pass code on her phone. When we went on a trip today I picked up her phone to map our destination and then asked why she changed it. She made up an excuse about work requirements and resetting passwords. Anyways at that point I asked her what was going on, is she cheating because her actions are really weird. She got all defensive and basically got mad at me for even asking.
> 
> Theres a bit more to it but basically she gave me nothing. So when we got home I messaged the guy thru social media and said we need to chat. Here is the actual convo:
> 
> ...





:slap::slap:


he will 100% tell your wife. if anything, they will match the stories. Guess you will learn it the hard way.

There are so many things that you are doing wrong in this situation.


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## sparrow555 (Jun 27, 2015)

bradj said:


> But he isn't if you read my other comments. I get she is the problem but she is not out on ****** *******. This thing has developed over time. I feel like most replies here are "dude your screwed, man up, grow balls and tell her you went thru her ****, contact a divorce lawyer, etc..' I am trying to handle this in a calculated and subtle way but everyone seems to think brute force in your face is the only way.
> 
> I don't want a divorce and I do think my wife does not realize what she is getting into. I am also reaching out to marriage counselors to try to get into that. So far I have emailed like 15 of them, already got 3 replies though that they don't accept my insurance. Eventually I will find one that does.


You are acting like a guy who is scared but lying to himself that he is being subtle and calculating way.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I say this not to be mean, but stop going the easy route and shunting your anger of on the OM. Why are you scared? Ask anyone who has lived in limbo how much it sucks. Every time you tell her what you are going to do, concerning rooting out this contact, she has a chance to lie and get her story straight with the other man.

If you still talk to the guy, do not use the sarcasm in Toyboy's post. You have no clue what type of personality this guy has and you want information. Sarcasm is an easy way to escalate an already tense situation. Be firm, set boundaries, but don't be an a-hole., unless he admits he wants your wife.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Stop all this nonsense and start doing the 180. 180 hard. Go see a lawyer.


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## z_man (Nov 1, 2013)

bradj said:


> In my mind though I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole. I guess there is something to be said though about the overwhelmingly consistent feedback and that is an indicator that I am in denial.


Right now, with the information you have, you are facing a pothole. Pothole defined as a budding Emotional Affair. However, if you do not handle this correctly, then this pothole will turn into a giant bottomless pit of agony and despair.

Bottomless pit defined as your wife takes the affair underground, then physical, then you find out the full extent, then you may or may not get to try reconciliation (which is a long hard rode in and of itself) without guarantees of success, and finally divorce and the split of your family. This typically looks like; you pay out the ass, lose half your belongs/savings and get to see your kids 50% of the time, while your ex wife starts her new life without you.

It is a scary proposition, but that is the cost you will incur if you do not act on this as soon as possible. 

You have been given valuable advice on how to get the evidence you need before you confront your wife and force the situation to your favor. 

Good luck, you are going to need it.

EDIT:

Since you did a soft confront without following the advice given to you, finding the truth will be that much harder. She now has time to delete any/all incriminating evidence, get her story straight with the other guy, and frame you as a crazy, controlling husband. This may also derail going to the OM's wife as the OM will have time to also frame you as the crazy, controlling husband and discredit your attempts to expose him to his wife.

Either your wife turns around her behavior or you will have to employ the '180,' get a lawyer, and start the divorce/separation process to demonstrate to your wife she needs to come clean, cut all contact with the other guy (including getting another job,) go to marriage counseling, and accept that what she is doing is wrong or it is divorce time.

END EDIT


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

The problem with the analogy, everyone keeps quoting, isn't the pothole. It's the fact he think he is the one driving.



> I am driving a car towards a big pot hole and there is a good chance there is smooth road after the pot hole.





> So my wife changed the pass code on her phone. When we went on a trip today I picked up her phone to map our destination and then asked why she changed it.


No OP, you aren't driving,you are a passenger.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

The pot holes in the U.S. must big massive

In the u.k. we would Call them a cliff


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

G.J. said:


> The pot holes in the U.S. must big massive
> 
> In the u.k. we would Call them a cliff


They call them speed bumps in Houston.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

bradj said:


> But he isn't if you read my other comments. I get she is the problem but she is not out on ****** *******. This thing has developed over time. I feel like most replies here are "dude your screwed, man up, grow balls and tell her you went thru her ****, contact a divorce lawyer, etc..' I am trying to handle this in a calculated and subtle way but everyone seems to think brute force in your face is the only way.
> 
> I don't want a divorce and I do think my wife does not realize what she is getting into. I am also reaching out to marriage counselors to try to get into that. So far I have emailed like 15 of them, already got 3 replies though that they don't accept my insurance. Eventually I will find one that does.


How'd it go?


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## Emma957 (Dec 3, 2015)

Sorry you're going through this. i went through the same thing. It's totally an emotional affair. Watch this: Marriage Builders® Weekend - Infidelity Segment
My husband did the same thing to me with a friend of mine. I was pregnant at the time. It was two years ago and things are still pretty crummy between us. As the guy in the video explains, infidelity is THE WORST pain someone can inflict on another human being and we should always guard against it. On the bright side, if you truly love your wife and want to make it work, sounds like she's outlined some things that would make her love you more. This other guy is filling her emotional needs, and that needs to be you not him. She needs to watch that video and completely cut off all contact with him. Change jobs if necessary, it's better than wrecking a marriage. Good luck to you, I know your pain all too well.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So...did you meet him? And did she then flip out and kick you out of the house because he went whining to her?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

Dr. Shirley Glass - NOT "Just Friends"


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

180 and go straight to wife of OM. You got to take off your blinders and get real. Then get all of the electronic communication add blank paper to make it look like you have more than what you have.

If you do not act in a strong fashion you are going to be sorry. 

This guy has already in my opinion done the deed with your wife. 

You are in a war and you need to win the battle.


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