# Wtf am I doing?



## Dday

My story has been documented on here for the last couple years so I won't go into all the details but I'll give some quick cliff notes. 

My wife cheated on me in 12/2011. I was suspicious but never learned the truth until 3/2013 when I caught her in a 2nd affair. That's when I came to TAM and got some great advice I didn't take full advantage of. We ended up staying together until 3/2015 when I caught her in another EA which I think was probably physical but she still denies. 

So that brings us to the present. We have been separated for the last 6 months or so. I did the whole 180 and it drove her nuts. At the time I was so done with her I kind of enjoyed seeing her like that. Divorce papers were drawn up and I was ready to move on. I was out dating and having a great time. 

About a month ago, I don't know what happened but I all of a sudden wasn't happy again and feel the need to make things work with my wife. I think it was a combination of seeing what affect this was having on the kids and just not really living a great lifestyle. 

We have had some conversations, but there has been so much damage done I don't know if it will ever work again. I'm kind of at a loss as to what direction to go in here. I would love to get my family back but I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.


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## SecondTime'Round

Have you seen true remorse from her end?


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## Pluto2

Kids are more resilient than you think.

What has she done to cause you to think that in 6 months or a year, she won't be involved in another A? MC, IC, fully transparent, complete remorse?


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## VeryHurt

D-Day ~
I understand how you are feeling. You've been on and off for 4 years, 
I had been dealing with crap for 6 years. It's hard to completely break away, isn't it? I have been married over 32 years and my divorce is almost final and it feels weird to me. Why did you hang in there after all her affairs? Is she remorseful?
VH


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## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> My story has been documented on here for the last couple years so I won't go into all the details but I'll give some quick cliff notes.
> 
> My wife cheated on me in 12/2011. I was suspicious but never learned the truth until 3/2013 when I caught her in a 2nd affair. That's when I came to TAM and got some great advice I didn't take full advantage of. We ended up staying together until 3/2015 when I caught her in another EA which I think was probably physical but she still denies.
> 
> So that brings us to the present. We have been separated for the last 6 months or so. I did the whole 180 and it drove her nuts. At the time I was so done with her I kind of enjoyed seeing her like that. Divorce papers were drawn up and I was ready to move on. I was out dating and having a great time.
> 
> About a month ago, I don't know what happened but I all of a sudden wasn't happy again and feel the need to make things work with my wife. I think it was a combination of seeing what affect this was having on the kids and just not really living a great lifestyle.
> 
> We have had some conversations, but there has been so much damage done I don't know if it will ever work again. I'm kind of at a loss as to what direction to go in here. I would love to get my family back but I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.


Dude.

Come on.

She's never going to stop cheating.

Ever.

Divorce and co-parent amicably.


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## badmemory

Dday said:


> My wife cheated on me in 12/2011.
> 
> 3/2013 - I caught her in a 2nd affair.
> 
> 3/2015 - I caught her in another EA which I think was probably physical but she still denies.
> 
> *I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.*


I'm sure you don't; but chances are extremely high that you will.


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## GusPolinski

Pluto2 said:


> Kids are more resilient than you think.
> 
> What has she done to cause you to think that in 6 months or a year, she won't be involved in another A? MC, IC, fully transparent, complete remorse?


After 3 affairs, what COULD she do?


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## bandit.45

She is a serial cheat. Unless a boulder rolls off a hill and lands on her car with her in it...she won't stop. She cannot stop. 

Don't do this to yourself. You will find a better woman out there. Just give it time.


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## ButtPunch

GusPolinski said:


> Dude.
> 
> Come on.
> 
> She's never going to stop cheating.
> 
> Ever.
> 
> Divorce and co-parent amicably.


QFT


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## Pluto2

GusPolinski said:


> After 3 affairs, what COULD she do?


Trying to be gentle. 

I don't think for one minute she will change her ways. I was just trying to point out that if she hasn't done squat to fix the marriage there is no reason to think R now would ever work.

OP-She cheats despite the fact that she knows she hurts you and her family.


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## ThePheonix

Dday said:


> I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.


Are you sure about that D. During my time on this planet, you be surprised at the guys I've run across who, on the surface, complain about it but deep down enjoy being the victim and find it somehow provocative and a turn on knowing another man is doing their old lady. Having a great time with the other chicks became boring to you and its more stimulating getting your azz kicked. What else can you say about a man being attracted to and drawn back into being the fool. You may have a tendency to enjoy being cuckold. It happens. But it ain't the kids Dawg. Men often use the kids as an excuse to hang around.


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## Lostinthought61

if you decide you go back into the marriage understand that if she cheats again its not on her its on you...as the saying goes burn me twice shame on me....you know exactly what your getting


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## Dday

SecondTime'Round said:


> Have you seen true remorse from her end?


Yes, definitely more so after the papers were delivered
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dday

SecondTime'Round said:


> Have you seen true remorse from her end?





Pluto2 said:


> Kids are more resilient than you think.
> 
> What has she done to cause you to think that in 6 months or a year, she won't be involved in another A? MC, IC, fully transparent, complete remorse?


It just feels different and the way she has been acting. Unlike when I exposed the first time, only our closest friends and family knew. Knowing now that basically everyone we ever talk to knows the situation I could see that really got to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dday

VeryHurt said:


> D-Day ~
> I understand how you are feeling. You've been on and off for 4 years,
> I had been dealing with crap for 6 years. It's hard to completely break away, isn't it? I have been married over 32 years and my divorce is almost final and it feels weird to me. Why did you hang in there after all her affairs? Is she remorseful?
> VH


You're right, it feels so final. Somehow I never lost feelings for her and it is so hard to just move on from that chapter. I'm 34, we have been together since we were 17
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Dday,

I remember your last situation well.

She was drunk at this POSOM's house in the middle of the night refusing to answer her phone....you actually had to call POS to have him tell her to get home immediately, and she still didn't come home for a significant length of time.

The ENTIRE scenario screams out that his was a PA not an EA, and was deliberately done and thrown in your face......This was her THIRD A, and the other two were both PA......so why would this one be different?

Yet she denies anything happened?

The absolute first thing she would need to do before you even consider making an attempt at R is either knock off this lying and come clean.....or if she insists she is honest, verified by a poly exam.

If she cannot even be honest with you about what she has done, what possibility could ever really exist to rebuild a M with her?

Unrepentant cheaters who continue to be deceptive and dishonest make particularly unpromising prospects for future marital bliss.


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## Dday

ThePheonix said:


> Are you sure about that D. During my time on this planet, you be surprised at the guys I've run across who, on the surface, complain about it but deep down enjoy being the victim and find it somehow provocative and a turn on knowing another man is doing their old lady. Having a great time with the other chicks became boring to you and its more stimulating getting your azz kicked. What else can you say about a man being attracted to and drawn back into being the fool. You may have a tendency to enjoy being cuckold. It happens. But it ain't the kids Dawg. Men often use the kids as an excuse to hang around.


That's not me. It's tough to admit but when we were together after the first dday I had trouble performing if you know what I mean. The mind movies and all were too much and even happened up until the last dday. I'm happy to say I had no issues with another women but I'm just saying that is 100% not the reason I'm debating this
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> Yes, definitely more so after the papers were delivered


That's not remorse.


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## badmemory

Dday said:


> * I'm 34,* we have been together since we were 17


Relatively speaking - you're just a babe in the woods. All the more reason to have confidence that you can move on and find someone else that loves you and will honor their wedding vows.


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## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> You're right, it feels so final. Somehow I never lost feelings for her and it is so hard to just move on from that chapter. I'm 34, we have been together since we were 17


You've already given half your life to her, and she's probably spent at least half of that cheating.

Take the rest of your life BACK.


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## SecondTime'Round

Xenote said:


> if you decide you go back into the marriage understand that if she cheats again its not on her its on you...as the saying goes burn me twice shame on me....you know exactly what your getting


Yup. I did this, and shame on me.

Some people (i.e. sociopaths) are really good at faking remorse and "having changed so much!!"


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## boltam

I am familiar with your story.

You have finally crawled out from under and endured an incredible amount of pain.

If you go back to her the odds are extremely high that history will repeat and you, and your children will have to do it all over again.

Do NOT get back with this serial cheater, it will not go well.


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## Dday

Dyokemm said:


> Dday,
> 
> I remember your last situation well.
> 
> She was drunk at this POSOM's house in the middle of the night refusing to answer her phone....you actually had to call POS to have him tell her to get home immediately, and she still didn't come home for a significant length of time.
> 
> The ENTIRE scenario screams out that his was a PA not an EA, and was deliberately done and thrown in your face......This was her THIRD A, and the other two were both PA......so why would this one be different?
> 
> Yet she denies anything happened?
> 
> The absolute first thing she would need to do before you even consider making an attempt at R is either knock off this lying and come clean.....or if she insists she is honest, verified by a poly exam.
> 
> If she cannot even be honest with you about what she has done, what possibility could ever really exist to rebuild a M with her?
> 
> Unrepentant cheaters who continue to be deceptive and dishonest make particularly unpromising prospects for future marital bliss.


I can't disagree with you. She still maintains it wasnt physical.... yet. No doubt in my mind it was heading there though.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## boltam

It wasn't physical? This is the guy whose house she went to and you tracked her there with a GPS at 2 o'clock in the morning? You called the guy and told him to bring your wife home and he did.. this is the one which supposedly didn't go physical?


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## jb02157

From what you've said, it seems there has been so much damage done it would be hard to put an type of relationshi together. All trust is broken and it's wouldn't be good for the kids to see their parents like this. I know that it's tough to break away, I've tried myself and haven't been able to for financial reasons.


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## GusPolinski

boltam said:


> It wasn't physical? This is the guy whose house she went to and you tracked her there with a GPS at 2 o'clock in the morning? You called the guy and told him to bring your wife home and he did.. this is the one which supposedly didn't go physical?


Word.


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## TAMAT

DDay,

Were the OM ever exposed, family, work, church, facebook, linkedin etc?

Your W has to learn that you will not lay down and will take the fight to whatever OM comes along. 

You should get a polygraph for your WW if you want to reunite, you cannot live the rest of your life with a woman who is so obviously lying to you. And then re-expose with the fact that it was a physical affair.

Post nuptual?

Tamat


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## Marc878

Reconcile with a serial cheater????? Why do you want to waste more of your time and life that you'll never get back?


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## RWB

Math doesn't add up... Married 32, 34 years old, been together since 17 ???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CH

Your title says it all.

But I do wish you the best of luck with this 3rd, 4th, 5th attempt?


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## MountainRunner

boltam said:


> It wasn't physical? This is the guy whose house she went to and you tracked her there with a GPS at 2 o'clock in the morning?


Maybe they were simply playing Parcheesi, yeah?

Seriously. This woman is exhibiting no signs WHATSOEVER of admitting/owning her behavior, showing absolutely no remorse....Walk away, don't look back.


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## Mr The Other

Dday said:


> I can't disagree with you. She still maintains it wasnt physical.... yet. No doubt in my mind it was heading there though.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The standard advice on TAM is to survey until you have proof of the extent of the affair, so you did not learn much on here.

As for problems maintaining an erection, that could be poor circulation, eat more veg and stay in shape. Or it could be psychological as you keep abusing yourself by staying with this woman. If the problem is coming too quickly, it is nerves from sleeping with a woman who has no respect for you. 

Anthony Demello's Awareness might be a good read. This is too serious a case for NMMNG or MMSLP. Clearly, you have to leave to have a happy life. However, you have this crazy idea in your subconscious that you deserve no better. Your bad marriage is a symptom of this. Work on this.


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## Marduk

Why the hell would you ever go back there, man. 

There are oceans of beautiful, intelligent, sexy, and honourable women out there. 

Go find one. She'll be happy to have found you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

Dday said:


> The mind movies and all were too much and even happened up until the last dday. I'm happy to say I had no issues with another women but I'm just saying that is 100% not the reason I'm debating this
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Take my word for it Dawg, unless you want another dose of those "mind movies" you need to stay out of that theater. The dumbest thing you could do is believe this snake is not going to bite you in the azz again.
I'm almost sadden by so many for you guys that look for her showing remorse as the deciding factor on whether to go back or not. Remorse is such an easy thing to fake. And besides, her being truly remorseful of her cheating still doesn't mean she cares about you. 
Think about it my man. Haven't you ever done anything you wished you hadn't have done, but you're remorseful because it made you look bad; not because you're so upset about the victim.



Dday said:


> I can't disagree with you. She still maintains it wasnt physical.... yet. No doubt in my mind it was heading there though.


If it wasn't physical, it probably wasn't her fault.


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## ConanHub

Just say nope to dope. Your wife is a dope.

Your emotions are natural BTW. Doesn't mean you should act on them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## eastsouth2000

Let the divorce run its course to protect you and your kids financially somehow and prevent further loss.

divorce if not the end of the road. If somehow she was able to fix her problems, then maybe


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## BrokenLady

Has she had therapy, read the books about healing your partner, analyzed her reasons for her behavior? Why did she cheat? How could she see the complete & utter devastation she caused you & do it again? How was she feeling, what was she thinking when she observed your pain? What steps has she taken to self-understanding & growth to ensure that she will NEVER do it again?

Has she recognized that this is ALL about you & your pain & your healing or does she still just feel sorry for herself & justified in her past behavior because she "Wasn't happy"? I believe that unless a WS feels true empathy for the BS AND recognizes the horrific cruel excuse for a human being that she became there is no hope at true R. 

If a WS is still withholding the complete & utter truth they have no place in your life, mind or heart. When they blame the M or the BS or circumstance in ANY way they are basically saying they WILL cheat again! It's the nature of life & marriage that there will be bad & stressful times. There will ALWAYS be opportunities & attractive members of the opposite sex. Marriages will always hit ruts. Until the WS truly KNOWS on every level that's it's THEIR fault & THEIR responsibility there can be no true reconciliation, no REAL marriage!


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## Mr The Other

ConanHub said:


> Just say nope to dope. Your wife is a dope.
> 
> Your emotions are natural BTW. Doesn't mean you should act on them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Straight and compassionate. Top post.


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## 6301

I think your a glutton for punishment. It wasn't one time. It was three times and she still didn't learn anything and honestly you didn't either. 

How about doing the right thing and ending it and find some with a lot more honor. That would be a real breath of fresh air.


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## tpdallas

Stick with the divorce. I bet she finds someone really fast.


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## dental

Fear is your master. Free yourself.


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## bfree

Dday, what exactly has she done to insulate herself from further cheating? What steps has she taken to discover what part of her gave herself permission to betray you multiple times? Has she taken a lie detector test to prove she is telling you the truth? You say she is remorseful. Is she truly feeling your pain or is she feeling pain from the consequences of her actions?


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## bandit.45

tpdallas said:


> Stick with the divorce. I bet she finds someone really fast.


The day the divorce goes through all this so-called remorse will dissipate like morning mist and she will show him a whole new face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman

ConanHub said:


> Just say nope to dope. Your wife is a dope.
> 
> Your emotions are natural BTW. Doesn't mean you should act on them.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


THIS! :iagree:

Don't second guess yourself, your decision to divorce is the right thing.


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## workindad

OP, sorry for the spot you are in. You have not described anything to me that leads me to believe that your serial cheating wife is remorseful.

She has proven herself time and again to be a skilled liar and to not give a thought about you, your marriage or your family.

Is this the example of how you are supposed to live that you want to set for the kids?

Only you can decide what the best road for you to follow is.

If I were in your shoes- I'd get the D done and move forward with my life and focus on co-parenting only with her.

Hopefully, she didn't give you a souvenir from her romps with various OM's (STD).

Also, do you really think you actually caught all of her affairs? 

If you do get back together, I suspect that she will get better at hiding her affairs.


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## Be smart

My friend why are you hurting yourself ? You will hurt your kids even more if you R with this serial cheater.

She cheated on you and your kids 3 times that you knew about.

Let me tell you this,while you are separated she was with her 3 "lover boys" and maybe more.

Just walk away,ket her be history


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## Chaparral

Google serial cheater. From everything I've read, serial cheaters cannot quit cheating. They have a serious psychological flaw.

If you keep looking you will find a good woman that loves you and your kids.

If you insist on trying with your wife again, do not remarry her, just live together so you can just move out.

Has she been to individual counseling, she's broken.


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## Pluto2

OP don't confuse remorse of the affair, with regret for the consequences of her acts.

Keep going the D for your protection. If she is truly remorseful you can always R later, you know, after she comes clean with her actions and tells you what actually happened, after she's done IC, after she shows you complete transparency with all communications....


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## boltam

Dday said:


> I'm 34, we have been together since we were 17


He wrote this 2 1/2 years ago. ^^

Here's the post you have a problem with:



Dday said:


> I can't believe I'm here like many of you. I have been with my wife for 15 years married for 7.5. We have 3 kids 5-4-2 and are both 31.





RWB said:


> Math doesn't add up... Married 32, 34 years old, been together since 17 ???


Maybe you need a tutor?


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## jim123

Dday,

If you do the same thing, you will get the same results. She has a major issue that she needs to fix. Time to build a new life.


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## JohnA

Hello D

I have several comments and questions.

Please clarify if your WS is a special ed teacher or a kickboxing instructor. 
What is her and yours parents history? 

What do you consider remorse? to me, a big part of remorse is understanding how their actions effect the BS.
I do not see how she can see her actions with om3 showing this, regardless if it was not a PA. How could she not know how this would trigger you, and prevent it? How can she love you and yet subject you to the mind movies and emotional upheaval. 

Can we discuss these points ?


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## MattMatt

If she can't stop herself cheating, how can you stop her from cheating?


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## Bibi1031

Be smart said:


> She cheated on you 3 times. y


I am not going to tell you not to follow your "urge" to get back with her. You will eventually love yourself more once you realize that hitting the brick wall of going back to her will only hurt you. Eventually the hurt will over shadow the urge to fix something YOU didn't break; therefore you cannot fix. 

I wish you major pain from hitting that brick wall so that you will begin to love yourself a little more and not expect a different result when you continue doing the same ole $hit. 

Oh, and another piece of advice, buy tons of Motrin!

I know all about "the urge"; it's called stubborn beyond sane,

Bibi


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## Dday

boltam said:


> He wrote this 2 1/2 years ago. ^^
> 
> Here's the post you have a problem with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you need a tutor?


someone else replied they were married for 32 years not me. I think that's where he got confused
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dday

JohnA said:


> Hello D
> 
> I have several comments and questions.
> 
> Please clarify if your WS is a special ed teacher or a kickboxing instructor.
> What is her and yours parents history?
> 
> What do you consider remorse? to me, a big part of remorse is understanding how their actions effect the BS.
> I do not see how she can see her actions with om3 showing this, regardless if it was not a PA. How could she not know how this would trigger you, and prevent it? How can she love you and yet subject you to the mind movies and emotional upheaval.
> 
> Can we discuss these points ?


She is a kindergarten special Ed teacher and also teaches kick boxing a couple times a week. To my knowledge no cheating happened until she started kickboxing. I told her to get a hobby cause I have many and she would always complain when I was doing stuff

My parents are still married going on 35 years, her parents divorced when we were in college. They didn't sleep together for as long as I've known her. Basically stayed together until she was out of high school. 

There has been a lot of remorse. Tears, apologies, not talking to what I considered toxic friends
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marc878

It's not remorse. She's upset because she thinks she's losing her plan B which is all you'll ever be to her.

You need a good dose of reality.

But it's your life so......


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## Dday

Marc878 said:


> It's not remorse. She's upset because she thinks she's losing her plan B which is all you'll ever be to her.
> 
> You need a good dose of reality.
> 
> But it's your life so......


What is remorse then? This has been over the last 6 months after the separation
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jorgegene

Dday said:


> What is remorse then? This has been over the last 6 months after the separation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When she stops lying for one.


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## GusPolinski

Dday said:


> What is remorse then? This has been over the last 6 months after the separation


It would've been remorse if you'd seen it _prior_ to hitting her w/ divorce papers.

Dude.

Three affairs.

Not one.

Not two.

THREE.

The ol' "once a cheater, always a cheater" was coined w/ people like your wife in mind.

For you, though? Well, you said it yourself... "Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me. Burn me three times... _*WTF am I doing?!?*_"

Either way, if you want to find out whether or not the "remorse" that you're currently seeing from your wife is genuine, tell her that, while you're open to the idea of reconciliation, there will be no reconciliation that isn't preceded by divorce.

IOW, tell her that the divorce WILL continue.


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## The Middleman

Dday said:


> What is remorse then?


What is remorse? Overrated and usually bullsh*t.



GusPolinski said:


> Either way, if you want to find out whether or not the "remorse" that you're currently seeing from your wife is genuine, tell her that, while you're open to the idea of reconciliation, there will be no reconciliation that isn't preceded by divorce.


This is the only way to do it! Never let her win you back from the safety of a legal marriage. Divorce her and let her work to get you back. If she works hard after divorce, then maybe, just maybe, there is real remorse there.


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## Dday

GusPolinski said:


> It would've been remorse if you'd seen it _prior_ to hitting her w/ divorce papers.
> 
> Dude.
> 
> Three affairs.
> 
> Not one.
> 
> Not two.
> 
> THREE.
> 
> The ol' "once a cheater, always a cheater" was coined w/ people like your wife in mind.
> 
> For you, though? Well, you said it yourself... "Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me. Burn me three times... _*WTF am I doing?!?*_"
> 
> Either way, if you want to find out whether or not the "remorse" that you're currently seeing from your wife is genuine, tell her that, while you're open to the idea of reconciliation, there will be no reconciliation that isn't preceded by divorce.
> 
> IOW, tell her that the divorce WILL continue.


Trust me I'm not delusional and I know what I'd be getting back into if I choose that path. im just having a hard time letting go. I never chose this, and despite all she has put me through I never stopped loving her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm

Dday,

I think you should go read Kwood's thread....titled '3 Times'.

He is also completely unable to detach from his manipulative WW....been burned three times and still can't stop himself from allowing her to wiggle her way back in to his life whenever she wants, which is usually when her POSOM is ignoring her.

But at least he is only dealing with one OM.....you have at least three.

And an unremorseful WW to boot....as someone else responded earlier when you asked what was remorse then, if she wasn't showing it now......she could stop lying for a start.

IMO, based on how this last situation went down, you are dealing with a third PA.....but she is still lying to you about it.

It is possible she is telling the truth....but, given her track record, I wouldn't take her word for it.

Tell her to verify her story with a poly if she wants you to even consider R.

Remorseful cheaters don't continue to lie to and deceive their BS's.


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## ThePheonix

Dday said:


> despite all she has put me through I never stopped loving her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its probably that you want what keeps slipping through your fingers. You want to tame her my man. If you really loved her, you'd want her to have the life that makes her happy. And if she was happy with you, she wouldn't be seeking the attention of other guys and you'd know being with you will only become her prison. 
Ask yourself something Dawg. If you went back to a woman that you couldn't be faithful for whatever reason, would her love for you be enough to make you happy? Or would it be better for everyone involved if your betrayed spouse just let you go no matter how much you needed a soft place to land.


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## bfree

Dday said:


> Trust me I'm not delusional and I know what I'd be getting back into if I choose that path. im just having a hard time letting go. I never chose this, and despite all she has put me through I never stopped loving her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Most people who divorce still love each other on some level. But relationships can't survive on love alone. They need trust and respect as well. So you love her. Do you respect her? Do you trust her? Do you believe she trusts and respects you?


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## KanDo

All I can say is, WOW! 
I guess i would have less of a problem with a guy that doesn't respect himself enough to get out of a poisonous relationship, but what are you going to tell the kids when it happens again (and you know it will happen again)???!!!

If you really are worried about the children you would show them what a healthy adult expects from a committed relationship and model how a mature adult man respects his self worth

Good luck to you. Get some individual counselling


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## Dday

Dyokemm said:


> Dday,
> 
> I think you should go read Kwood's thread....titled '3 Times'.
> 
> He is also completely unable to detach from his manipulative WW....been burned three times and still can't stop himself from allowing her to wiggle her way back in to his life whenever she wants, which is usually when her POSOM is ignoring her.
> 
> But at least he is only dealing with one OM.....you have at least three.
> 
> And an unremorseful WW to boot....as someone else responded earlier when you asked what was remorse then, if she wasn't showing it now......she could stop lying for a start.
> 
> IMO, based on how this last situation went down, you are dealing with a third PA.....but she is still lying to you about it.
> 
> It is possible she is telling the truth....but, given her track record, I wouldn't take her word for it.
> 
> Tell her to verify her story with a poly if she wants you to even consider R.
> 
> Remorseful cheaters don't continue to lie to and deceive their BS's.


I read his story and it's a horrible situation, as are just about every post here. 

The third situation I had no doubt in my mind it was physical 6 months ago. We seperated and I had divorce papers drawn up. Now I do have some doubt but it was for sure an EA at the least. They weren't together from what I could tell while we were seperated and although they still talked during that time it seems as if he wasn't interested not her. Could be wrong but it was still s third affair either way you look at it and if he pushed at all I'm sure it would of been physical
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dday

bfree said:


> Most people who divorce still love each other on some level. But relationships can't survive on love alone. They need trust and respect as well. So you love her. Do you respect her? Do you trust her? Do you believe she trusts and respects you?


All good questions. Obviously the trust and respect will need to be proven over time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dday

KanDo said:


> All I can say is, WOW!
> I guess i would have less of a problem with a guy that doesn't respect himself enough to get out of a poisonous relationship, but what are you going to tell the kids when it happens again (and you know it will happen again)???!!!
> 
> If you really are worried about the children you would show them what a healthy adult expects from a committed relationship and model how a mature adult man respects his self worth
> 
> Good luck to you. Get some individual counselling


I did get out of the relationship for 6 months. I am getting drawn back in now and have been for the last few weeks. The kids may never know what happened, I would never bad mouth their own mother. Besides they are too young now to understand.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JohnA

Hi Dday,

Thank you for your answers to my last post. So she wants to be with you because OM3 is not interested in you? A cruel statement, but true? 

What does she say about how this effects the children? How widely have you exposed? 

Christ, your post on three strikes ripped my heart out. You don't do what she did, with her history, to an enemy. Can't she see that? Why does this women HATE YOU. 

Why don't you ask her why she wants to reconcile with a man she hates? Money? status? Why?


----------



## happyman64

Dday

Why do you think your wife cheats? 

Why do you think your W wants to reconcile?

And if you really want to reconcile with her again why not take her for a polygraph test.

Confirm her latest ea/pa and let her know this is the one chance you are giving her to be 100% honest with you.

There is nothing wrong with loving your cheating wayward wife. Absolutely nothing.

But if you want to honestly reconcile with her, and her with you then 100% truth needs to be on the table.

From both of you. A good question might be how many people has she slept with these past 6 months. More than you?

See if she can attempt a truly honest conversation with you.

HM


----------



## VeryHurt

ThePheonix said:


> Its probably that you want what keeps slipping through your fingers. You want to tame her my man. If you really loved her, you'd want her to have the life that makes her happy. And if she was happy with you, she wouldn't be seeking the attention of other guys and you'd know being with you will only become her prison.
> Ask yourself something Dawg. If you went back to a woman that you couldn't be faithful for whatever reason, would her love for you be enough to make you happy? Or would it be better for everyone involved if your betrayed spouse just let you go no matter how much you needed a soft place to land.


I wish I had taken this advice many many years ago! 
OP: Don't be a fool like I was.


----------



## Pluto2

OP, you have said you've seen real remorse. Are you positive? Tears and sorrys are absolutely meaningless. They are easy to generate.

Real remorse must include complete, 100% honesty concerning what has happened. None of this "we were just friends" crap. It must include details of the actions because without the WS acknowledging that acts and admitting they took place, there will never be true remorse for the pain those acts have caused.

Real remorse includes ownership for your actions. That means she will not care who knows what she did because she understands the betrayal she has inflicted and further understands that you need support from whatever source you need to handle her actions.

Have you offered her a post-nuptial agreement with an infidelity clause? Will she put her money where her mouth is (pun intended).


----------



## Dday

JohnA said:


> Hi Dday,
> 
> Thank you for your answers to my last post. So she wants to be with you because OM3 is not interested in you? A cruel statement, but true?
> 
> What does she say about how this effects the children? How widely have you exposed?
> 
> Christ, your post on three strikes ripped my heart out. You don't do what she did, with her history, to an enemy. Can't she see that? Why does this women HATE YOU.
> 
> Why don't you ask her why she wants to reconcile with a man she hates? Money? status? Why?


No problem thanks for the questions. I know what I'm going to get here is 95% of the time is along the lines of get out and divorce. Se times my answers may lean like I am staying 100% but that is just me playing devils advocate of some sort. I like to look at this from all possible angles. 

Whatever happened with OM3 makes it difficult for me to move on. She saw the devastation the first dday had on me and yet was going down the same path again. That gives me little confidence that it won't happen again. 

As for exposure, after dday1 we kept it very quiet. Only my parents and 2 closest friends knew what was going on. This time i told the story to anyone who listened. 

I've asked why she wants to get back together and it's not money or anything along the lines of making life easier. My sister and Mom basically hate her and I know that will make this difficult moving on. She claims she didn't know why she did what she did blah blah blah. I don't know, it feels more genuine then after the first dday. Only time will tell I guess
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dday

happyman64 said:


> Dday
> 
> Why do you think your wife cheats?
> 
> Why do you think your W wants to reconcile?
> 
> And if you really want to reconcile with her again why not take her for a polygraph test.
> 
> Confirm her latest ea/pa and let her know this is the one chance you are giving her to be 100% honest with you.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with loving your cheating wayward wife. Absolutely nothing.
> 
> But if you want to honestly reconcile with her, and her with you then 100% truth needs to be on the table.
> 
> From both of you. A good question might be how many people has she slept with these past 6 months. More than you?
> 
> See if she can attempt a truly honest conversation with you.
> 
> HM


Why do I think she cheats? I've thought about that a lot but it is just condoning what she did. I try to rationalize it but in the end it doesn't really matter. Probably had something to do with the bad marriage her parents had. Could of been that I was the only man she ever had sex with. It could've been that she needed the attention because I didn't give her enough. 

She admitted to the EA after I had to describe what it was. She admitted that she had feelings for him but still maintains it didn't go physical. 

We had the discussion of what happened over the last 6 months and I feel I got honest answers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bfree

Well, don't you think she needs to have an answer to that question before you even consider restarting a relationship with her? And it needs to be an answer gleaned from therapy not just something made up to placate you. She cannot say it won't happen again if she doesn't know why it happened before.


----------



## happyman64

bfree said:


> Well, don't you think she needs to have an answer to that question before you even consider restarting a relationship with her? And it needs to be an answer gleaned from therapy not just something made up to placate you. She cannot say it won't happen again if she doesn't know why it happened before.


Exactly a free. That is a place Dday needs to concentrate with his WW.

It is ok to consider R Dday but I think you have to hold her feet to the fire and your WW has to know you mean it and will do it before she agrees to R with you.

It works both ways Dday.


----------



## ThePheonix

D my man, you're coming up with reasons that takes the heat off you. Bad marriage her parents had indeed. How about the bad/ unsatisfying marriage she has? How many women that never cheat do you think had parents in bad marriages. But if you're right, maybe you need to think about what ya'll are doing to your own kids with her out ally cattin around.
I've said this dozens of times and it is the real, time honored reason women cheat on men. Listen carefully and really try to consider what an old hound is telling you. Why don't you verify this by privately contacting several women for their honest opinion to clear up any doubts.

_When the typical woman cheats on you, it means she, for whatever reason, has a low romantic interest in you and worse, no respect for you._

Whatever you decide to do, you need to get it through your head that tingle she should feel for you is more of a chill. She's simply not satisfied with you and is looking for what's missing in other men. If she wasn't pleased before, what makes you think its going to be different this time around. Once you become a frog to her, you never turn back into a prince.


----------



## Be smart

It is always the same. She craved attention because her husband is always working hard,trying to earn some money for her and children and she couldnt speak to her best friend-her husband about it and she decided to find a lover.Not only one but three and maybe even more.

Maybe I am stupid,but it seems to me it is a lot easier to talk to your wife/husband and tell them,honey you are working to hard,please spend some more time with me and our children.

You said while you are separated that she was in contact with her other lover boy-OM3 and you still want her back.

Also your point about her having sex with only you and problems with her parents marriage is not excuse for her Affairs.

Open your eyes my friend and just sign the D papers. You will earn your respect back and find hapines with your kids.


----------



## Satya

If she'd cheated only once and was VERY remorseful in actions I'd support you trying to get back together. 

The fact she cheated 3x (that you know of) tells me that you're not over the IDEA of what you once had. 

I think you still have healing to do. You'd disregard what she did because of how you remember things. From my pov, you will never have things back the way they were. You'll hope for them, you may see a glimmer every now and then of the woman you knew, but the woman she is now is a person that ran over your heart 3x... And you seem to want to put it out on the asphalt for her again on a chance. 

I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. You have to do what you think is right. 

Last thing I'll offer from my pov. When men can't get over a woman that treats them like $h1t, repeatedly, they can't move on really. Other women can detect this when dating you, and they'll know you won't be invested, so you won't feel the bond forming because they'll keep you at arms length. You will keep them at arms length. Even when they date, there's something missing. Of course there is. What's missing is your indifference for your ex, so you can actually have a clear mind ready to date healthily and find a woman that will love you and treat you better.


----------



## Bibi1031

Don't stop the divorce; just kill the old marriage where promises and vows were broken. It's just a piece of paper now that will be terminated with yet another piece of paper. 

Your heart governs your actions Dday. At this point, you will do what the heart wants come hell or high water. So follow your heart and Start dating your wife. If she is willing to date you exclusively, then go full speed ahead with falling in love with each other again. The old marriage has too much water under that bridge. Maybe with a clean slate, you have a better chance at happiness with your WW. 

Please keep your eyes open and your heart guarded, but with hope that maybe you two can work things out. If by any chance things don't work out, you gave it your best shot. 

I wish you the best of luck, and that this new gift you are giving your WW is genuinely appreciated by her. 

Bibi


----------



## Chaparral

What has she offered to do, give up, change ,etc. in order to get you back? Complete transparency? Poly? No more going out without you? Etc.


----------



## GusPolinski

Holy geez.

The third affair was physical. Stop doubting what you saw w/ your own eyes. So just accept it and move forward w/ that in mind.

Again, no reconciliation w/o divorce, and no re-marriage until AT LEAST two years have passed, during which time she needs to commit to 100% absolute, complete, and total transparency IN ALL THINGS.

Also, how is she meeting these guys? Is it the kickboxing? If so, she'll obviously have to give that up.

Honestly, though, if you're that hell-bent on reconciliation that you'd even consider it after THREE AFFAIRS, you should probably just agree to an open relationship, because she's not going to stop seeking affection from other men. I mean... why would she? If you take her back, all you'll have shown her is that she doesn't HAVE to stop.


----------



## ConanHub

Just have her open a mobile sperm bank. Sounds like she would be good at it.

Seriously though, you need your head examined at least as much as her.

You are part of the problem and your relationship is toxic with your wife.

You need to develop yourself to be able to live well without a serial cheater.

She isn't behaving like a tramp because of her past or anyone in it.

She is behaving like a tramp because she is a tramp.

I hope she becomes a better person but that doesn't mean you keep being her little b'tch.

You could benefit from "manning up".

Divorce and please get help and then date some healthy women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dental

Dear OP,

I think that no matter how many pages are added to your post, you will return to her. You're not playing devil's advocate, you're not procrastinating on making a decision, from the tone of your posts I think that what people are saying here doesn't register with you. That ok though, it's your life. You will make a decision when you are ready to do so. This is your path, I hope when the time comes, you choose wisely. And I hope that you will keep us posted on your progress.


----------



## Decorum

Dday said:


> It just feels different and the way she has been acting. Unlike when I exposed the first time, only our closest friends and family knew. Knowing now that basically everyone we ever talk to knows the situation I could see that really got to her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Dday said:


> I did get out of the relationship for 6 months. I am getting drawn back in now and have been for the last few weeks. The kids may never know what happened, I would never bad mouth their own mother. Besides they are too young now to understand.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Dday said:


> No problem thanks for the questions. I know what I'm going to get here is 95% of the time is along the lines of get out and divorce. Se times my answers may lean like I am staying 100% but that is just me playing devils advocate of some sort. I like to look at this from all possible angles.
> 
> Whatever happened with OM3 makes it difficult for me to move on. She saw the devastation the first dday had on me and yet was going down the same path again. That gives me little confidence that it won't happen again.
> 
> As for exposure, after dday1 we kept it very quiet. Only my parents and 2 closest friends knew what was going on. This time i told the story to anyone who listened.
> 
> I've asked why she wants to get back together and it's not money or anything along the lines of making life easier. My sister and Mom basically hate her and I know that will make this difficult moving on. She claims she didn't know why she did what she did blah blah blah. I don't know, it feels more genuine then after the first dday. Only time will tell I guess
> _Posted via Mobile Device_





Dday said:


> Why do I think she cheats? I've thought about that a lot but it is just condoning what she did. I try to rationalize it but in the end it doesn't really matter. Probably had something to do with the bad marriage her parents had. Could of been that I was the only man she ever had sex with. It could've been that she needed the attention because I didn't give her enough.
> 
> She admitted to the EA after I had to describe what it was. She admitted that she had feelings for him but still maintains it didn't go physical.
> 
> We had the discussion of what happened over the last 6 months and I feel I got honest answers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




Squeak..............squeak..................squeak! (Hamster wheel turning)

After giving insipid replies to all the expected answers without taking them to heart, and taking that as evidense that he has looked at it "from all angles" he cherry picks the evidence and follows his desire.

Ding, ding, ding...Round # 4
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JohnA

Hi Dday,

At this point the why is moot until she understands how this effects your's and her children's emotional health. We talk about what is remorse, without her realizing your's and the childrens pain, there s no remorse.


----------



## sixty-eight

Bibi1031 said:


> Don't stop the divorce; just kill the old marriage where promises and vows were broken. It's just a piece of paper now that will be terminated with yet another piece of paper.
> 
> Your heart governs your actions Dday. At this point, you will do what the heart wants come hell or high water. So follow your heart and Start dating your wife. If she is willing to date you exclusively, then go full speed ahead with falling in love with each other again. The old marriage has too much water under that bridge. Maybe with a clean slate, you have a better chance at happiness with your WW.
> 
> Please keep your eyes open and your heart guarded, but with hope that maybe you two can work things out. If by any chance things don't work out, you gave it your best shot.
> 
> I wish you the best of luck, and that this new gift you are giving your WW is genuinely appreciated by her.
> 
> Bibi


it's hard, isn't it. to fully disconnect with relationships that we have held for so long, even if they are painful.

Your stbx doesn't seem to have your best interests at heart.
I liked what Bibi said. If you must give it another try, then you must. But get divorced, and protect yourself, guard your heart. At 34, there are many women out there looking for someone. Are you willing to give up a potential future relationship with a faithful woman? 

and as for the kids not knowing:
When my parents shared with my brother and I a few years ago that my dad had cheated on my mom when i was a kid, they were shocked. We remembered a confrontation with the OW in a restaurant, and already knew. I must have been 5 or 6. A lot of kids, even if they don't _know_, doesn't mean they don't suspect. They certainly thought that they would be sharing brand new information.

At the very least, you said it was a sudden feeling, That you had been fine for a long time, and were moving on and dating. Maybe just sit on that for awhile, maybe it'll be a passing feeling.


----------



## bandit.45

Okay I'll make my opinion perfectly clear...

You're out of your flipping gourd wanting to get back together with this...um...woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## harrybrown

has she even given you a written timeline of all her As?

Has she gone to counseling?

How would she like it if you gave her stds? has she been tested?

How would she feel if you had a dozen affairs?

would she cheer you on?

Do not go back. have her sign a post nuptial after the d is final.

Have her walk away from the kids, pay you alimony, child support, she walks away with nothing. 

Then find someone that does not hate you. She has no love or respect for you. She keeps showing that over and over.

Run away move to another continent.

(or have her go )


----------



## badmemory

Dday,

You say she is now remorseful. Okay, let's assume for the moment that she is.

A couple of thoughts.

1 - She's cheated too many times for her remorse to even matter. She doesn't deserve that consideration.

2 - She's cheated too many times for you to presume that she will *stay* remorseful. She may very well feel remorse for now. But she is wired to cheat. That feeling will change.

Don't do it.


----------



## jorgegene

Dday said:


> Trust me I'm not delusional and I know what I'd be getting back into if I choose that path. im just having a hard time letting go. I never chose this, and despite all she has put me through I never stopped loving her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I totally get this because iv'e been exactly where you are.

I had 2 LTR where i got cheated on.

i had bad self esteem back then and i didn't think i could get any better. And i DID and still DO love them. some people will say it's not true love, that you are in love with the image of who they showed you they once were during the initial courting phase, before their true selves showed. 

but i reject this notion. even people who eventually show themselves as highly flawed and capable of cheating have their good side. and besides, as a romantic, i believe we can love even when that person is not lovable. isn't that the deepest sense of christian love?

it was only after multiple cheating that i left them and with hindsight that i realized what i did was right. it is hard to leave.
incredibly hard. it is agony. but when a person is reprobate, it's the right thing to do else you consign yourself to misery.

i learned that while i still love them, i must love them from afar..........


----------



## MAJDEATH

DDay there is always hope. Hope that she will be remorseful and repent her wicked ways. Hope that you both can learn from this experience and create a much better marriage out of the ashes of the old one.

But it will take work. It will take time. It will take counseling. Unlike what others have said, you don't need to know every detail beyond that infidelity occurred. But you do need to know the why. Ask her this question: Who did you get to be while having these relationships? Her answer will offer some insight into unstated needs that you can work on. Because in an affair you can be whoever you want to be, and that is usually the person you wish you could be with your spouse.

Leave D on the table, it definitely stops the cake eating and forces a choice. And if you haven't told everyone, do that as well. Sending a message to family and all friends on social media will do the trick. Sounds like you have removed the toxic friends already and now she needs to drop the kick boxing class while she works on her marriage.

Serial Cheaters can reform, trust me, I know of a least one who did . But it took years and a lot of demonstrated work to get there.


----------



## workindad

Dday said:


> Why do I think she cheats? I've thought about that a lot but it is just condoning what she did. I try to rationalize it but in the end it doesn't really matter. Probably had something to do with the bad marriage her parents had. Could of been that I was the only man she ever had sex with. It could've been that she needed the attention because I didn't give her enough.
> 
> She admitted to the EA after I had to describe what it was. She admitted that she had feelings for him but still maintains it didn't go physical.
> 
> We had the discussion of what happened over the last 6 months and I feel I got honest answers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How can you feel that you got honest answers about the PA part? That seems to be in conflict with her previous actions and your assessment that it was physical. 

I know it is tough to see a lie when you want to believe you are being told the truth. Odds are, she gave you some partial honesty, not full disclosure.


----------



## Pluto2

IMO, partial honesty is not equivalent to the truth.

You either accept you're not going to get the truth, or you don't because I sincerely doubt you will ever get the truth from her. Does it going physical matter to your decision? I know I've read on other threads that to some men the physicality matters, and then to some women the emotional betrayal was unforgivable. Of course that's not always the case. But I was wondering.


----------



## workindad

Dday said:


> Whatever happened with OM3 makes it difficult for me to move on. She saw the devastation the first dday had on me and yet was going down the same path again. That gives me little confidence that it won't happen again.
> 
> As for exposure, after dday1 we kept it very quiet. Only my parents and 2 closest friends knew what was going on. This time i told the story to anyone who listened.
> 
> I've asked why she wants to get back together and it's not money or anything along the lines of making life easier. My sister and Mom basically hate her and I know that will make this difficult moving on. She claims she didn't know why she did what she did blah blah blah. I don't know, it feels more genuine then after the first dday. Only time will tell I guess
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



It feels more genuine this time because your wife is getting better at lying. She saw the devastation the first D-Day had and now you are discussing the third OM. THAT YOU KNOW OF.

She doesn't know why she did it, but she did it anyway even knowing how much it hurt you. Sorry, she doesn't love you. She doesn't even sound like she likes you. She certainly doesn't respect you or the marriage or your family.

I do agree with your level of confidence, based on what you have written and described, I have zero confidence that she won't cheat on you again.

I do think she will improve at hiding it and lying to you. Hopefully she insist that her future lovers wear a condm so she can reduce any risk of infecting you with a new STD. That's about the most consideration that you can hope for.


----------



## Dyokemm

Pluto2 said:


> IMO, partial honesty is not equivalent to the truth.
> 
> You either accept you're not going to get the truth, or you don't because I sincerely doubt you will ever get the truth from her. Does it going physical matter to your decision? I know I've read on other threads that to some men the physicality matters, and then to some women the emotional betrayal was unforgivable. Of course that's not always the case. But I was wondering.


At this point, I think it matters far less if the last A was physical or not (IMO it was based on what Dday shared).....what DOES matter is if she is still lying about what happened.

A truly remorseful WS who desperately wants a chance to R with their BS does not continue to be dishonest and deceptive.

If she cannot come up with a way to verify she is not still lying (and I think a poly is about her only option left given her record on truthfulness), I think Dday needs to keep the D going full steam ahead.


----------



## badmemory

MAJDEATH said:


> Serial Cheaters can reform, trust me, I know of a least one who did . But it took years and a lot of demonstrated work to get there.


A reformed serial cheater. Don't mean to cynical (okay, maybe I do); but I don't think that can be confirmed until the serial cheater is on their death bed.


----------



## BjornFree

Dday, you're a co-dependent. Get help.


----------



## MAJDEATH

badmemory said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Serial Cheaters can reform, trust me, I know of a least one who did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . But it took years and a lot of demonstrated work to get there.
> 
> 
> 
> A reformed serial cheater. Don't mean to cynical (okay, maybe I do); but I don't think that can be confirmed until the serial cheater is on their death bed.
Click to expand...

How do you confirm that your spouse didn't cheat yesterday (assuming you are married), other than she didn't tell you she did? There are lots of ways.

I guess my point is that there seems (IMO) to be a belief that male cheaters can "turn it on" then "turn it off", but female cheaters are serial cheaters for life. I've known a lot of male *****s, including my brother for a time, who are constantly pursuing OW while in LTR with wives/girlfriends. Heck my former best friend brought a date to one of his weddings.


----------



## just got it 55

Dday said:


> All good questions. Obviously the trust and respect will need to be proven over time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Obviously :frown2:

55


----------



## just got it 55

Dday said:


> No problem thanks for the questions. I know what I'm going to get here is 95% of the time is along the lines of get out and divorce. Se times my answers may lean like I am staying 100% but that is just me playing devils advocate of some sort. I like to look at this from all possible angles.
> 
> Whatever happened with OM3 makes it difficult for me to move on. She saw the devastation the first dday had on me and yet was going down the same path again. That gives me little confidence that it won't happen again.
> 
> As for exposure, after dday1 we kept it very quiet. Only my parents and 2 closest friends knew what was going on. This time i told the story to anyone who listened.
> 
> I've asked why she wants to get back together and it's not money or anything along the lines of making life easier. My sister and Mom basically hate her and I know that will make this difficult moving on. She claims she didn't know why she did what she did blah blah blah. I don't know, it feels more genuine then after the first dday. Only time will tell I guess
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Dday We are a long time dead.......And you will never get the time back that you have already painfully put into her.

You want to risk precious time to endure more pain and emotional damage to your children ?

Think long and hard young man Think!!

55


----------



## carmen ohio

Dear Dday,

I posted this two and a half years ago on one of your other threads, and I believe it to be good advice still:



> Let me remind you of two famous expressions that you be wise to take to heart:
> 
> _"There are none so blind as those who will not see."_ (John Heywood, 1564)
> 
> _"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." _(George Santayana, 1905)
> 
> Why you choose to be blind is a mystery. What is likely to happen to you if you continue to forget what you have learned is not.


To these two quotes, let me add a third:

_"Experience keeps a dear school, but fools in learn in no other, and scarce in that."_ (Ben Franklin)

I expect that you will ignore my quotes now as you ignored them then, but not to worry. Take her back another half dozen times if you wish, you will eventually _"see"_ and then you will _"remember," _and all you will have lost is a another two or three or ten or twenty years of your life (see, e.g., river rat's thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/79609-successful-rugsweep.html).

Wishing you well, as it would appear that there is nothing else anyone can do at this point in time to help you.


----------



## leon2100

Seek professional counseling! the "Arm Chair" and "coffee shop" advise you get hear isn't wroth the space it's written in. A professional will listen and ask questions to lead to viably solutions. But, you knew that already, so what I've written is a big waste of my time.


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## badmemory

leon2100 said:


> Seek professional counseling! the "Arm Chair" and "coffee shop" advise you get hear isn't wroth the space it's written in. A professional will listen and ask questions to lead to viably solutions. But, you knew that already, so what I've written is a big waste of my time.


Okay everyone; you heard it. We can all go home now. This forum can be shut down. When a BS or WS needs help and clicks on the TAM link; let's just leave a final message of: "Seek professional counseling!".


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## Marduk

Dday said:


> No problem thanks for the questions. I know what I'm going to get here is 95% of the time is along the lines of get out and divorce. Se times my answers may lean like I am staying 100% but that is just me playing devils advocate of some sort. I like to look at this from all possible angles.
> 
> Whatever happened with OM3 makes it difficult for me to move on. She saw the devastation the first dday had on me and yet was going down the same path again. That gives me little confidence that it won't happen again.
> 
> As for exposure, after dday1 we kept it very quiet. Only my parents and 2 closest friends knew what was going on. This time i told the story to anyone who listened.
> 
> I've asked why she wants to get back together and it's not money or anything along the lines of making life easier. My sister and Mom basically hate her and I know that will make this difficult moving on. She claims she didn't know why she did what she did blah blah blah. I don't know, it feels more genuine then after the first dday. Only time will tell I guess
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If she doesn't know why it happened 3 times she won't have any idea how to make sure it doesn't happen again.

This is simple logic.

Although I suspect she knows exactly why it happened.

3 times.

That you know about.


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## kwood

you should really read my post tittled 3 times iam in the same boat as you are. but ask yourself .the same thing I have to ask myself why do we want to put up with this. iam having a very had time letting go but they don't love us, they make fools out of us. with the the help of all the people on tam and family and friends .I have said enough is enough. I hope you will join me and put a end to this bull**** and get rid of the cheaters and find a woman that will love us the way we should be loved.


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## badmemory

kwood said:


> you should really read my post tittled 3 times* iam in the same boat as you are.*


Not quite kwood. Dday's WW is at least pretending to be remorseful.


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## TRy

@OP: A one time affair that is perhaps a lapse in judgment because of extenuating circumstances is one thing. It could be viewed as an exception that does not define who she really is. But three times that you know of, defines her as a cheater. That is who she is. It is a lifestyle that she desires, and will miss if she does not have. She wants to cheat and has been willing to lie to you to achieve this goal. Rather than be thankful for the gift of a second chance, she went on to plot her next affairs. There is a famous saying that applies to your situation. *"Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."*


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## turnera

Dday said:


> What is remorse then? This has been over the last 6 months after the separation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remorse is her being in IC every week for a good 12 months to figure out how she can compartmentalize doing the single worst thing in the world to her husband SEVERAL TIMES. Is she?

Remorse is writing out an extremely detailed timeline of every single time she's lied to you, cheated on you, and set things up so she can get what she wants at your expense. Has she?

Remorse is living like a monk ever since you separated and only working, seeing the kids, going to IC, keeping you informed of everything she does so you can see she has changed. Has she?

Remorse is putting a GPS and keylogger on all her electronics and her car so you can see where she is at all times, so she can PROVE that she has changed and has nothing to hide. Has she?

Remorse is scheduling a polygraph and asking you to come up with the questions and then going and giving you the results. Has she?

Remorse is going to the lawyer and writing up a postnup agreement and/or a divorce/prenup agreement and having them ready for you to sign whenever you so decide. Has she?

I could go on...


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## turnera

Dday said:


> I'm just having a hard time letting go.


Dday, THIS is the ONLY thing you need to be looking at right now.

This isn't about your marriage. Or your wife. Or your kids. 

This is about YOUR inability to just be ok by yourself. Are you in weekly therapy for this?


----------



## BetrayedDad

Dday said:


> My story has been documented on here for the last couple years so I won't go into all the details but I'll give some quick cliff notes.
> 
> My wife cheated on me in 12/2011. I was suspicious but never learned the truth until 3/2013 when I caught her in a 2nd affair. That's when I came to TAM and got some great advice I didn't take full advantage of. We ended up staying together until 3/2015 when I caught her in another EA which I think was probably physical but she still denies.


Who cares if she was physical with two or three guys??? The point is "your wife" let's other men besides you plow her at will. Kissing her, fondling her, penetrating her, not exactly uncharted territory for the other men, do you REALLY think she's going to turn down one more? Why the hell would she? And please don't say it's because she gives a damn about you. That's been well proven to be a farce already.



Dday said:


> So that brings us to the present. We have been separated for the last 6 months or so. I did the whole 180 and it drove her nuts. At the time I was so done with her I kind of enjoyed seeing her like that. Divorce papers were drawn up and I was ready to move on. I was out dating and having a great time.
> 
> About a month ago, I don't know what happened but I all of a sudden wasn't happy again and feel the need to make things work with my wife. I think it was a combination of seeing what affect this was having on the kids and just not really living a great lifestyle.
> 
> We have had some conversations, but there has been so much damage done I don't know if it will ever work again. I'm kind of at a loss as to what direction to go in here. I would love to get my family back but I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.


Well you will. You're lonely dude and hell I get that but you're letting it mess with your head. You need to learn to BE ALONE BUT NOT BE LONELY. Make that you're ONLY goal and stop yacking up this serial cheat. She will manipulate you into remembering "the good times" and it will make you lonelier and you'll fall right into her trap. 

SALVAGE your dignity and self respect. Learn to LOVE YOURSELF, THEN the right woman will literally fall into your lap. You'll find out that the key to a good relationship is being happy TOGETHER with a person rather than DEPENDING on them for happiness.


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## Be smart

One more thing I forget. She told you she doesnt know why she cheated 3 times and maybe even more. 

She cheated because SHE CAN. You didnt do absolutely nothing after you find about her first affair.

Now you are separated and she is with other guys from her kickboxing while you are at home paying bills,watching kids and thinking about her.

Please help yourself. Just divorce her. There is a lot of other woman who will respect you and love you.


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## ThePheonix

jorgegene said:


> And i DID and still DO love them. some people will say it's not true love, that you are in love with the image of who they showed you they once were during the initial courting phase, before their true selves showed.


I keep repeating that loving them doesn't stop them from cheating or cheating again. How much you love them doesn't matter. All that does is keep you tied to the thing that keep biting you in the azz. What keep them from cheating is if they love you (in a romantic way) 

In the final analysis, virtually all of a man's heartache, including our man D, is caused by them loving a woman more than the woman loves them. A woman that doesn't love you or no longer loves you has no problem kicking a mud hole in your azz and stomping it dry. Some even enjoy seeing you with your d-ck knocked in the dirt. When they are done with you, they a done. Why do you cats think the woman files for divorce 80% of the time.


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## Sports Fan

If you are intent on reconciliation with this woman it must be done purely on your terms. No ifs no buts from this woman. After 3 Affairs she should be out on her arse so at the very least she either fully complies to your demands on how things are going to be from now on or she better get used to Divorce.

I hate to say this but her remorse is most likely coming from the realisation that this time she has fuc...ked up her cosy little world which she has become accustomed too and her meal ticket in yourself is about to be stamped void.

Personally i would lay out the following conditions for her before she comes back. She either agrees and signs something which you type up as acknowledgement or she can stay out on her arse.

1) No friends of the opposite sex ever.

2) No giving out her number to people of the opposite sex.

3) You are to have all passwords, to phones, Ipads, Laptops, Emails, Facebook, Whatever, and she is to hand over devices directly over for inspection at any time of your choosing. If she starts up about a violation of her privacy crap dont argue the point with her she stays out on her arse in Divorce Court.

4) She is to pick up the phone at all times when you call. The phone must be glued to her hip and no excuses on why she didn't answer.

5) She must give you full transparency of when, where, who, she is going out, and i would suggest that no going out with girlfriends occurs within the first 3 months of you taking her back.

If she resists any of the above or breaks any of the above she must be fully aware that there will be no discussion from your part you will instigate divorce suddden and swiftly, and only engage with her through your lawyer.


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## TRy

turnera said:


> Remorse is her being in IC every week for a good 12 months to figure out how she can compartmentalize doing the single worst thing in the world to her husband SEVERAL TIMES. Is she?
> 
> Remorse is writing out an extremely detailed timeline of every single time she's lied to you, cheated on you, and set things up so she can get what she wants at your expense. Has she?
> 
> Remorse is living like a monk ever since you separated and only working, seeing the kids, going to IC, keeping you informed of everything she does so you can see she has changed. Has she?
> 
> Remorse is putting a GPS and keylogger on all her electronics and her car so you can see where she is at all times, so she can PROVE that she has changed and has nothing to hide. Has she?
> 
> Remorse is scheduling a polygraph and asking you to come up with the questions and then going and giving you the results. Has she?
> 
> Remorse is going to the lawyer and writing up a postnup agreement and/or a divorce/prenup agreement and having them ready for you to sign whenever you so decide. Has she?
> 
> I could go on...


 :iagree::iagree::iagree:
This is so on the money, it should be a sticky on remorse.


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## TRy

ThePheonix said:


> I keep repeating that loving them doesn't stop them from cheating or cheating again. How much you love them doesn't matter. All that does is keep you tied to the thing that keep biting you in the azz. What keep them from cheating is if they love you (in a romantic way)


 Although I think that you are right saying this about most cheaters, I think that there are many cheaters that are in love with their spouse, but are also addicted to the high that they get from cheating. Like an alcoholic, they always feel bad about it afterwards, and know that they should stop, but then they think just one more time. They also believe that cheating does not hurt anyone just as long as they do not get caught. These cheaters are not sorry that they cheated. They are only sorry that they got caught. That being said, in the end it does not matter if they are in love with their spouse when they cheat. They are cheaters that will continue to cheat. To stay in such a marriage, you either are willing to be a cuckold or you are not.


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## sidney2718

Dday said:


> All good questions. Obviously the trust and respect will need to be proven over time
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The sad thing is that in spite of what some have said, it really isn't possible for her to PROVE that she's told the truth. It really can't be done.

The best that can happen is that over time you will be willing to trust her again AND you decide to take that chance. That's a decision YOU have to make.


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## sparrow555

Dday said:


> Yes, definitely more so after the papers were delivered
> _Posted via Mobile Device_






Dday said:


> What is remorse then? This has been over the last 6 months after the separation
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



This is beyond pathetic.


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## Coachme

I can see the types of replies you have been receiving and would like to offer an alternative view. Your story sounds hard and you sound unsure what you should do next, but you seem to like the idea of having your family together again. My response is to support you reconnecting with your wife and family again.
Separation is often not amicable or easy and even though kids are resilient, it seems you miss your wife and this is a wonderful opportunity for you to be a great role model for an intimate relationship to your children. Marriage is for the good and bad times, and I can see that you feel like there is a way to keep your marriage and grow your relationship together. 
I don’t know anything more about your relationship, besides what has been written here, but it seems you had a good relationship outside of the infidelities. Some people just need protecting from these types of situations, some people just get sucked into these situations and need protection and as a husband you are in a perfect position to prevent this from happening again. Where did she meet these men? For example were they at her work? If so, make a presence in her workplace, drop in regularly and unexpectedly and introduce yourself to all her colleagues. Mark your territory.
In addition, as the infidelities occurred every two years or so, it is possible that around this time she needed more excitement and variety in your marriage and met these needs in a hurtful and detrimental way. She will keep you on your toes, but it will be well worth it as you learn to meet her needs of variety, spontaneity and uncertainty on a daily, weekly and yearly basis.
If you feel that your relationship is worth saving, then you now have greater insight into your wife and you can plan ahead.


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## carmen ohio

sidney2718 said:


> The sad thing is that in spite of what some have said, it really isn't possible for her to PROVE that she's told the truth. It really can't be done.
> 
> *The best that can happen is that over time you will be willing to trust her again AND you decide to take that chance.* That's a decision YOU have to make.


Why is this _"the best that can happen"? _On what basis should he _"be willing to trust her again AND ... decide to take that chance"_?

The problem with advice like this is that it is based on the false premise that the BS can somehow cause the WS to change from a cheater into someone who is faithful and trustworthy. He can't.

Only the WS can do this and only if she is fiercely determined to change and willing to undergo intense self-examination. Unfortunately, nothing the OP has told us indicates that this describes his WW. Rather, he is contemplating giving her another chance simply because he can't bear to part with her.

The best thing that could have happened would have been for his WW to make a strong demonstration of her remorse and desire to change when, last March, he finally told her that he had had enough. She didn't (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/248650-should-strike-3-a-14.html#post12252282).

Instead, its was the OP who initiated the rapprochement because he wasn't happy with the thought of divorce and wanted his family back (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/296378-wtf-am-i-doing.html#post13895050). In essence, he has put the divorce on hold, not because of a change in her but because of a change in him.

I'm sure most posters here would like nothing better than for the OP to reconcile with his WW on the basis of a strong demonstration by her that she deserves a third chance. But what most posters here realize is that, without such a demonstration, what the OP is likely to end up with if he gives her another chance is not a happy marriage but a fourth bout with infidelity.


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## Hicks

Some people cheat due to a set of circumstances. For example the husband is working too many hours which leaves the wife feeling neglected which causes her to take a class which exposes her to a male suitor and since her husband is not around, this suitor fills the space and eventually it becomes sexual.

Some people cheat because they have bad moral values. Yes, "bums" can even be mothers of your children.

You have to determine if there are "circumstances" that led to her cheating (those can be corrected). Or, is she is a "bum". Bad morals cannot be corrected.


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## carmen ohio

Coachme said:


> *Re: Wtf am I doing?*
> I can see the types of replies you have been receiving and would like to offer an alternative view. Your story sounds hard and you sound unsure what you should do next, but you seem to like the idea of having your family together again. My response is to support you reconnecting with your wife and family again.
> Separation is often not amicable or easy and even though kids are resilient, it seems you miss your wife and this is a wonderful opportunity for you to be a great role model for an intimate relationship to your children. Marriage is for the good and bad times, and I can see that you feel like there is a way to keep your marriage and grow your relationship together.
> I don’t know anything more about your relationship, besides what has been written here, but it seems you had a good relationship outside of the infidelities. Some people just need protecting from these types of situations, some people just get sucked into these situations and need protection and as a husband you are in a perfect position to prevent this from happening again. Where did she meet these men? For example were they at her work? If so, make a presence in her workplace, drop in regularly and unexpectedly and introduce yourself to all her colleagues. Mark your territory.
> In addition, as the infidelities occurred every two years or so, it is possible that around this time she needed more excitement and variety in your marriage and met these needs in a hurtful and detrimental way. She will keep you on your toes, but it will be well worth it as you learn to meet her needs of variety, spontaneity and uncertainty on a daily, weekly and yearly basis.
> If you feel that your relationship is worth saving, then you now have greater insight into your wife and you can plan ahead.


Let us consider this advice:

1) Some wayward spouses just get sucked into cheating, so 

2) It's the betrayed spouse's job to prevent this from happening, which

3) He's in a perfect position to do if he properly marks his territory.

4) In addition, the reason the OP's wife cheats every couple of years is because he is not supplying her with enough excitement and variety. Staying together will be good for him, as it will keep him on his toes while he learns to meet her needs so that she doesn't cheat again.

Let's see, does that make any sense?

Ah, no, not a bit.

Men aren't dogs who should have to go around marking their territory to keep other dogs away from their wives, and women aren't mindless pleasure seekers who can't be expected to keep their legs together if their partners aren't sufficiently entertaining.


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## GusPolinski

Hicks said:


> Some people cheat due to a set of circumstances. For example the husband is working too many hours which leaves the wife feeling neglected which causes her to take a class which exposes her to a male suitor and since her husband is not around, this suitor fills the space and eventually it becomes sexual.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people cheat because they have bad moral values. Yes, "bums" can even be mothers of your children.
> 
> 
> 
> You have to determine if there are "circumstances" that led to her cheating (those can be corrected). Or, is she is a "bum". Bad morals cannot be corrected.



Infidelity occurs due to either a lapse in morals or a lack of morals.

Period.


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## turnera

Coachme is correct in that the BS could be redirecting his focus to more closely be present in his marriage. Hicks is correct in that OP needs to determine if she's just flawed or misdirected. IMO, 3 or more times is not being misdirected, it's being selfish and self-centered.

Whatever the course, OP needs to ensure she becomes 100% accountable and MORE, if he decides to ever give her another chance. That said, my experience is that cheaters almost NEVER go down the route of accountability without suffering real, hard, painful consequences.


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## Acoa

Dday said:


> So that brings us to the present. We have been separated for the last 6 months or so. I did the whole 180 and it drove her nuts. At the time I was so done with her I kind of enjoyed seeing her like that.


You did it wrong then. You don't do the 180 to drive her nuts. You do it to find yourself. If you have been dating, you haven't found yourself yet. You've just found how you do with other women. 



Dday said:


> About a month ago, I don't know what happened but I all of a sudden wasn't happy again and feel the need to make things work with my wife. I think it was a combination of seeing what affect this was having on the kids and just not really living a great lifestyle.


Get your 180 on a proper track. How about no dating for a while? Go do some stuff with the kids. Pick a hobby or activity you've always wanted to do and spend some time on it. Take a class, join a club, get active. If you don't have that one thing you've always wanted to do, then go try a bunch of different things. Go solo, go as a single man. You'll see life from a new angle. It's not a bad one, but it does take some adjustment. 

Getting back with your WW isn't going to fill that void you are feeling. You need to do that. 



Dday said:


> We have had some conversations, but there has been so much damage done I don't know if it will ever work again. I'm kind of at a loss as to what direction to go in here. I would love to get my family back but I don't want to go through and relive the same situations again.


Agree to be co-parents to your kids. If she wants you back, tell her not to date and that you will stop dating. If she asks for how long, tell her you don't know. Leave it open ended. And don't date her. Don't sleep with her. Don't be affectionate at all. Just be nice. Treat her as a coworker. Set good boundaries and you'll find out pretty quick if she is going to put the work in. My guess is she'll be seeing someone or already is and won't give it up. She may lie and try to hide it. But here is the kicker, you don't need to worry about it. Just keep treating her as a coworker. Pursue your solo goals and activities. The truth will show itself in time.


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## Dday

Again I appreciate all the responses. I've been busy the last couple days so haven't had a lot of time to post on here. 

Just wanted to clear a few things up on the current situation. 

1. I am not back together with her as of right now. For the last 6+ months she has been asking for another chance and my answer has always been it is never going to happen. My stance has softened over the last few weeks though I know it is a huge risk to try again

2. I can't control the feelings I have for her and although my mind tells me that it is crazy I feel an emptiness inside without seeing her and my kids everyday

3. I was never trying to justify why she cheated. I just answered a question on why I thought she did. I really have no clue and nothing will make me feel better about it

4. I don't want to believe that she is a flawed person, but she Most likely is. I don't think what she did was just a lapse of judgement for it to happen 3 times and for how long the 2nd affair lasted. She knew exactly what she was doing and didn't care. Then the 3rd, more of the same thing, she knew how it ruined me before and was going right down the same path.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dday

Acoa said:


> You did it wrong then. You don't do the 180 to drive her nuts. You do it to find yourself. If you have been dating, you haven't found yourself yet. You've just found how you do with other women.
> 
> 
> 
> Get your 180 on a proper track. How about no dating for a while? Go do some stuff with the kids. Pick a hobby or activity you've always wanted to do and spend some time on it. Take a class, join a club, get active. If you don't have that one thing you've always wanted to do, then go try a bunch of different things. Go solo, go as a single man. You'll see life from a new angle. It's not a bad one, but it does take some adjustment.
> 
> Getting back with your WW isn't going to fill that void you are feeling. You need to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> Agree to be co-parents to your kids. If she wants you back, tell her not to date and that you will stop dating. If she asks for how long, tell her you don't know. Leave it open ended. And don't date her. Don't sleep with her. Don't be affectionate at all. Just be nice. Treat her as a coworker. Set good boundaries and you'll find out pretty quick if she is going to put the work in. My guess is she'll be seeing someone or already is and won't give it up. She may lie and try to hide it. But here is the kicker, you don't need to worry about it. Just keep treating her as a coworker. Pursue your solo goals and activities. The truth will show itself in time.


Maybe 6 months isnt long enough but I'll give you a timeline of the last 6 months. I kind of been through what you posted. 

About 2 weeks after the separation I started dating, I went on several dates, made some good connections but nothing real serious. Then I met "Dana" and we dated for 2 months and everything was really good. For no reason inparticular I lost interest and we stopped seeing each other. That brought us to about the 4 month mark. 

I have a ton of hobbies, which is one of WW's biggest complaints. I play softball, we traveled in July for a tournament, I play a lot of golf, went to Myrtle Beach in September and I also have a house down the shore which I spent a lot of time at this summer.

We Co-parent very well and as I said before the kids have been handling it very well for the most part.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

So I see no reason in all of that for why you should entertain taking her back. You're lonely, and that's it. Settling for 40 more years of cheating just to avoid lonely is dangerous to you AND your kids.


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## bfree

Dday, memory is a funny thing. The more removed you are from a situation the less severe it seems. When you talk about giving her another chance what exactly are you thinking of? When you speak of getting your family back what exactly do you see in your mind's eye?


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## TAMAT

DDAY,

if you are getting back with her...

The kickboxing has to end, she should not be around conceited self-absorbed people at the gym who are just looking for the next piece. While this only describes perhaps 5% of the people at my gym, I see that 5% constantly hugging each other, inappropriately touching etc. “Trainers” are especially revolting in that reguard.

Have her take a polygraph.

Go back and completely expose her previous affairs.

DNA test for your kids.

Have her stand out by a major highway with a sign saying I cheated on my H 3 times.

Tamat


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## Dday

bfree said:


> Dday, memory is a funny thing. The more removed you are from a situation the less severe it seems. When you talk about giving her another chance what exactly are you thinking of? When you speak of getting your family back what exactly do you see in your mind's eye?


Another chance to rebuild our relationship I guess. I'd like our kids to grow up in a 2 parent household. I don't want another father figure in their life 5 years down the line or whatever. I want to be able to laugh with my WW everytime they do something funny, or discipline them together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix

TRy said:


> To stay in such a marriage, you either are willing to be a cuckold or you are not.


That pretty well sums it up; whether your married to a chick that has lost interest and respect for you or is a sexual high addict that cannot control where she gets her fix. Additionally, folks here consider "remorse" a major factor to look for when attempting to reconcile.
You have to remember a person can be remorseful about a bad thing they done without really caring about the victim. I knew a couple of women who run around on their SO, were remorseful for becoming what they never wanted to become and blamed their SO for putting them in the situation. Besides that, remorse is easy to fake short term because folks want to believe it.
True remorse comes a long time after the event; not the day you get caught.


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## bfree

Dday said:


> Another chance to rebuild our relationship I guess. I'd like our kids to grow up in a 2 parent household. I don't want another father figure in their life 5 years down the line or whatever. I want to be able to laugh with my WW everytime they do something funny, or discipline them together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So then in your mind's eye all you see is your children? What about when they're all grown up? What about when they're off at camp or out with friends. Are you and your wife going to just sit there staring at each other? Are you going to go out and date other people? Do you not see the problem here? In your mind's eye you don't see a relationship with your wife and that is the one overriding thing you should see.

You say it breaks your heart to think of the pain your kids are going through. You say it bothers you what they've already had to go through. Let's say you and your wife get back together. Initially you are all very happy. Your kids are ecstatic since their family is intact again. But since she really has no idea why she cheated in the first place (or the third place) it's fairly likely to happen again. What will happen then. More heartache. More fighting. More turmoil that the kids will have to deal with...again. And another family breakup.

Maybe she doesn't cheat but your relationship is tainted because the shadow of infidelity continues to loom over it. Your wife gets tired of the constant distrust you (rightfully) demonstrate. She gets resentful. "I'm not cheating anymore! When will you let this go! I hate you!" And again more fighting, more turmoil, more stress for the kids to deal with.

Maybe there is no acrimony. Maybe you both just slowly drift apart. Maybe you and she just one day look at each other and see strangers. Then one of you decides to call it quits. Again the children are left to pick up the pieces of their shattered family and endure.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? Isn't it better to allow the marriage to end gracefully now rather than have everybody reinvest only to see it fail again later? And without answers to some very basic questions it would fail again wouldn't it? Without putting safeguards in place neither of you could feel secure in the relationship. Think long and hard about this Dday. Don't put your children through unnecessary torment.


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## Broken at 20

You honestly think it is better for kids to grow up in a home where mommy and daddy are always fighting than apart? 

What kind of message are you sending to your kids in this environment? 
That it's OK for your daughters to go out, date and get married, and cheat on their boyfriends and husbands repeatedly because that's how it was for mommy and daddy? 
Or that your son must tolerate a cheating wife/girlfriend because that is what you did? 

It's better for kids to grow up in an environment with two people that love them than to be in the middle of a fight between two parents. 

By the way, if you get back with your...EX? How surprised will you be when you discover a fourth affair?


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## Be smart

Let me tell you this,if you are a good father your kids will always love you. There is no other man or "other father" that can replace you.

Your wife can remarry tomorrow but your kids are going to love you because you are their father.Nobody else.

Do you really want to answer questions to your kids why is mommy going out on dates with other man while is daddy with them ? Why is mommy too touchy feely in gym with other dudes ???

Please my friend,help yourself and your kids life.


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## turnera

You're kidding, right? So you're willing to just sit on the couch at night while she goes out with the girls (or guys) and does whatever the hell she wants...as long as she comes home to you at night?

Great job setting your KIDS up to be cheaters or betrayed spouses, since that's the ONLY role model they're gonna have.


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## TRy

Dday said:


> Another chance to rebuild our relationship I guess.


 You cannot rebuild your relationship. Your old marriage is dead. What you are holding onto is a memory of a person that no longer exists. Any relationship with your current wife must be established as a new marriage with the person that she really is. Since it is not in your children's long term best interest to be raised in a household where one of the spouses is a serial cheater, if you were not already married to her, knowing what you know now would you marry her?


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## boltam

Be smart said:


> Let me tell you this,if you are a good father your kids will always love you. There is no other man or "other father" that can replace you.
> 
> Your wife can remarry tomorrow but your kids are going to love you because you are their father.Nobody else.


Until their mother starts badmouthing good old dad to the kids, introduces their new "father" who she shows obvious love and respect for, and over time the kids lose interest in being with their dad at all or worse think he's some sort of terrible person.

It happened to me, it happens to lots of noncustodial parents (usually men but not always).

The guy has a point when he says he wants to stay for his kids.

Anyone who has not been through an ugly divorce with the children turned against the "visiting" parent are dispensing advice to get divorced without knowing what its like.

There are lots of "intact" marriages where the couple is only together for the kids or finances.

If this guy can accept that his wife is a cheating who*re, who he will never be able to trust, who will likely cheat on him over and over again, and he's good staying in the home with her, then who is to tell him otherwise?

He can play the same game she does.


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## kwood

Boltam what you are saying is let the kids grow up in a home with the parents are cheating? What do you think that teaches kids about marriage. This whole dam world has lost what marriage is about. What happend to teaching kids morals. If she is a lying cheating ***** then would he not be better off to fight for the kids and try to get them from her.and try to raise them with good moarls. So they no what marriage is about and stop the cheating bull****!!!!!!


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## leon1

Ok sounds like you want to try again with her , you need to make a list of things she needs to do before you would consider giving her another chance . A polygraph test to find out about any other cheating would be good start .


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## boltam

kwood said:


> Boltam what you are saying is let the kids grow up in a home with the parents are cheating? What do you think that teaches kids about marriage. This whole dam world has lost what marriage is about.


Marriage is a sham, most often it's a recipe for disaster, nothing more. If the kids grow up knowing to avoid marriage at all costs, I say that's a win.


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## MAJDEATH

boltam said:


> kwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boltam what you are saying is let the kids grow up in a home with the parents are cheating? What do you think that teaches kids about marriage. This whole dam world has lost what marriage is about.
> 
> 
> 
> Marriage is a sham, most often it's a recipe for disaster, nothing more. If the kids grow up knowing to avoid marriage at all costs, I say that's a win.
Click to expand...

Marriage equates to better physical/mental health, better financial status/greater income, lower mortality risk/live longer, better sexual satisfaction, etc. Not a sham.


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## boltam

MAJDEATH said:


> Marriage equates to better physical/mental health, better financial status/greater income, lower mortality risk/live longer, better sexual satisfaction, etc. Not a sham.


The irony in this statement being made by a man who has been cheated on by his wife countless times is almost beyond comprehension.


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## MAJDEATH

Just reiterating what numerous studies have consistently shown for decades. You could also add that the best determining factor to predict the success or failure of children in life is whether they were raised in a household with 2 parents who loved each other. Factors such as dropout rates, teen pregnancy, substance abuse, college attendence, etc can be tracked to this.


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## ihatethis

boltam said:


> *Until their mother starts badmouthing good old dad to the kids, introduces their new "father" who she shows obvious love and respect for, and over time the kids lose interest in being with their dad* at all or worse think he's some sort of terrible person.
> 
> I don't agree with this at all. Kids pick up on this sort of behavior. My niece's dad is remarried and all she does is talk badly about my sister and my niece has picked up on it and never wants to go to her dads now because of it.


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## MAJDEATH

Boltam, you weren't one of those guys who rushed to Divorce because your W looked at another guy, and you couldn't get over it? And now you regret your decision? Sounds like jealousy of those who figured it out to me.


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## TAMAT

As for what MAJDEATH says about marriage...

Someone once told me his friend was a prison guard and he asked his friend what he thought he could do to keep his kids from ever going to prison. Are you still married to you wife he asked him, yes, good because ain't nobody in prison has two parents.

Tamat


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## sparrow555

boltam said:


> Right, I'm very jealous of you because you've decided to stay with a woman who cheated on you with at least 3 different guys.


So what should he do ? Should he have stayed or should he have left ? Aren't you contradicting yourself ?



> If this guy can accept that his wife is a cheating who*re, who he will never be able to trust, who will likely cheat on him over and over again, and he's good staying in the home with her, then who is to tell him otherwise?



You say the BS should stay for the kids while at the same time insulting someone who is doing the same thing...


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## dadstartingover

Dday said:


> About a month ago, I don't know what happened but I all of a sudden wasn't happy again and feel the need to make things work with my wife. I think it was a combination of seeing what affect this was having on the kids and just not really living a great lifestyle.
> .


Your sense of self-worth sucks. It is tied to her, the adulterous spouse. You have spent zero time REALLY diving into why on Earth you would spend more than five seconds with a woman like her, let alone endure repeated bouts of infidelity.... and why you can't find a solution to your depression without her in the picture. 

A divorced guy should have an AWESOME lifestyle, dude. The world is your oyster.


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## carmen ohio

Dday said:


> bfree said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dday, memory is a funny thing. The more removed you are from a situation the less severe it seems. When you talk about giving her another chance what exactly are you thinking of? When you speak of getting your family back what exactly do you see in your mind's eye?
> 
> 
> 
> Another chance to rebuild our relationship I guess. I'd like our kids to grow up in a 2 parent household. I don't want another father figure in their life 5 years down the line or whatever. I want to be able to laugh with my WW everytime they do something funny, or discipline them together.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
Click to expand...

Dday,

Most guys would not be able to get over the fact that their wife cheated on them multiple time. You, on the other hand, seem to be more-or-less OK with it, if it means keeping your family together. If you genuinely believe that you can live with her in a harmonious relationship knowing what she's done, and if she commits to never doing it again, who is to say that you won't succeed in rebuilding your marriage.

But understand this: even if she never cheats again, as time goes by, you may become less and less OK with what she's done. If you haven't already, please read river rat's thread (http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/79609-successful-rugsweep.html). He did what you seem to be contemplating, only to discover years later that he'd made a mistake.

Don't let that be you.


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## Mustbecrazy

Perhaps someone already mentioned this, and this is not something I could do, but have you considered proposing an open marriage? The fact is, you already had one, it's just that you didn't know about it.

If you do end up getting back together in an attempt at monogamy, you have to make it impossible for her to cheat, i.e., no opportunities to be with other men outside of work without your presence. This would probably make her feel like she was in jail, but, since she isn't able to exercise restraint of her own, it needs to be imposed. And, there's no guarantee that she wouldn't hook up with someone at work. Are you willing to spend the rest of your life being her parole officer, and is she willing to let you?


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## GusPolinski

MAJDEATH said:


> DDay there is always hope. Hope that she will be remorseful and repent her wicked ways. Hope that you both can learn from this experience and create a much better marriage out of the ashes of the old one.
> 
> But it will take work. It will take time. It will take counseling. Unlike what others have said, you don't need to know every detail beyond that infidelity occurred. But you do need to know the why. Ask her this question: Who did you get to be while having these relationships? Her answer will offer some insight into unstated needs that you can work on. Because in an affair you can be whoever you want to be, and that is usually the person you wish you could be with your spouse.
> 
> Leave D on the table, it definitely stops the cake eating and forces a choice. And if you haven't told everyone, do that as well. Sending a message to family and all friends on social media will do the trick. Sounds like you have removed the toxic friends already and now she needs to drop the kick boxing class while she works on her marriage.
> 
> Serial Cheaters can reform, trust me, I know of a least one who did . But it took years and a lot of demonstrated work to get there.


Ironic.

ETA: Yeah, yeah... I know... zombie thread.

How are you these days, @Dday?


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