# Speed sex. Good? Bad?



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Our sex life has historically been the pits. Details in other threads but basically she tends to go along to get it over with, except when she cums first via oral. But that's a mixed bag as far as success goes. Initiate? For her, never. But last night we're reading through "Come As You Are" (recommended by our sex therapist for her), which is a pretty dense book for her, so I read it aloud and we talk about it after, what it means. Non-concordant signals and stuff. I get this idea hey, she doesn't enjoy this much, let's turn it into something different. Tell me when you're done with it by initiating. Just take my arm and say "I'm bored, I'm ready." 

A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral. And yes, turns out she's ready. She's there and done pretty fast. Not faked, actually done. It's always a crap shoot figuring out how to heighten suspense while not losing the moment. She loses the moment really easy. And at that point she's quite ready for me. The only time she's ready for me (after she's already had an orgasm). For me, the option of playing it out, taking my time, runs the risk of losing her "moment" and her becoming bored. So I'm on it pretty fast, and for me, the time I'm spending on her (oral) is every bit as satisfying as the time spent inside her. I keep my mind on the game, keep the dark thoughts aside, and I'm done pretty soon.

And then I look at the Spotify list afterward. OMG. Three songs. I later added them up. 9 minutes, 28 seconds.

Seriously???!!! 

Let me tell you, it was great, it felt wonderful hugging each other afterward, long post-sex "glow" (far longer than the act itself). I wouldn't mind more of this. She's not into long stuff, period. 

If this works, is it wrong? Is it missing the big picture? Is this how it works for anybody else? For context, she's 63, I'm 64. Thanks-


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> If this works, is it wrong?


If you are both happy with it then it doesn't matter what other people think or do.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

bobert said:


> If you are both happy with it then it doesn't matter what other people think or do.


Yes, there is that! But wondering if this is something anyone else can relate to. In almost any definition of "quickie" this would probably describe the faster version. But for me, sex is so much not that moment. It's what leads up to it, and what trails away from it. If I ask our sex therapist, her reply will be predictable. Consensual sex, no matter what form it takes, is OK. Long-term, there's the issue of managing to get there (for myself) so quickly. It's not like being a teenager when you could use a condom made of steel pipe and still not last more than 30 seconds.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Our sex life has historically been the pits. Details in other threads but basically she tends to go along to get it over with, except when she cums first via oral. But that's a mixed bag as far as success goes. Initiate? For her, never. But last night we're reading through "Come As You Are" (recommended by our sex therapist for her), which is a pretty dense book for her, so I read it aloud and we talk about it after, what it means. Non-concordant signals and stuff. I get this idea hey, she doesn't enjoy this much, let's turn it into something different. Tell me when you're done with it by initiating. Just take my arm and say "I'm bored, I'm ready."
> 
> A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral. And yes, turns out she's ready. She's there and done pretty fast. Not faked, actually done. It's always a crap shoot figuring out how to heighten suspense while not losing the moment. She loses the moment really easy. And at that point she's quite ready for me. The only time she's ready for me (after she's already had an orgasm). For me, the option of playing it out, taking my time, runs the risk of losing her "moment" and her becoming bored. So I'm on it pretty fast, and for me, the time I'm spending on her (oral) is every bit as satisfying as the time spent inside her. I keep my mind on the game, keep the dark thoughts aside, and I'm done pretty soon.
> 
> ...


Heck, just be glad you can both get off that easy! I reckon by now, you both know what works for you, right? I mean, you can still always try it your own way for your own benefit occasionally. You might want to warn her first some way. 

But if she's all happy about it, then great. Just throw in some non-sex cuddle on the couch time because most women like that a lot, and just being attentive about what they're up to in their daily living.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Casual Observer said:


> Our sex life has historically been the pits. Details in other threads but basically she tends to go along to get it over with, except when she cums first via oral. But that's a mixed bag as far as success goes. Initiate? For her, never. But last night we're reading through "Come As You Are" (recommended by our sex therapist for her), which is a pretty dense book for her, so I read it aloud and we talk about it after, what it means. Non-concordant signals and stuff. I get this idea hey, she doesn't enjoy this much, let's turn it into something different. Tell me when you're done with it by initiating. Just take my arm and say "I'm bored, I'm ready."
> 
> A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral. And yes, turns out she's ready. She's there and done pretty fast. Not faked, actually done. It's always a crap shoot figuring out how to heighten suspense while not losing the moment. She loses the moment really easy. And at that point she's quite ready for me. The only time she's ready for me (after she's already had an orgasm). For me, the option of playing it out, taking my time, runs the risk of losing her "moment" and her becoming bored. So I'm on it pretty fast, and for me, the time I'm spending on her (oral) is every bit as satisfying as the time spent inside her. I keep my mind on the game, keep the dark thoughts aside, and I'm done pretty soon.
> 
> ...


I think its cool you all at least go to a sex therapist.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> Yes, there is that! But wondering if this is something anyone else can relate to. In almost any definition of "quickie" this would probably describe the faster version. But for me, sex is so much not that moment. It's what leads up to it, and what trails away from it. If I ask our sex therapist, her reply will be predictable. Consensual sex, no matter what form it takes, is OK. Long-term, there's the issue of managing to get there (for myself) so quickly. It's not like being a teenager when you could use a condom made of steel pipe and still not last more than 30 seconds.


I don't think 10 minutes is too fast for a "quickie". I've had plenty of sex that, start to finish, was like 2 minutes... So that's where my mind goes when I think of a quickie. Add in the before and after stuff like cuddling, and that makes it less of a quickie. To me, a quickie is "let's do this quickly before the kids notice we're gone" or "before the guests get here" and there is no time for the extra stuff. 

I can go down on my wife for an hour and there is still a 0.01% chance of getting her off. So she usually doesn't want to bother with that because it won't work anyway. Then sex often turns into just doing it and getting it over with. Either I finish quickly to get it over with or have a hard time and take forever because she's clearly not into it so neither am I.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

We've had plenty of 10 minute sessions that were fabulous. It's like having a power nap...
10 minutes and you feel great!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Sounds great to me. Even sounds like progress.

Are you worried that that sort of scenario is going to become the only one you are going to get to have? Or that you just traded a potentially longer encounter for a briefer one?

Maybe challenge yourself to focus on the positives, and let go of the worries in your head about it. Those worries may seem like useful analysis, but they could also be a way for some subconscious part of you to sabotage the progress being made.

A wife that’s working with you, has found a way of being that let her be ready for you and invite you in...sounds like you’re livin’ the dream, at least from here.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My wife started doing that (going through the motions as quickly as possible so she could have her orgasm), towards the end of our sex life... to be honest, I hated it. But if it's ok with you, I don't see anything wrong with it. Since we don't have sex anymore, I would go along even with a slightly mechanical "procedure" now... at least I would feel we are a bit close. We have lost that completely and it's sad. So, even if it's quick, I recommend having sex regardless.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

There have been times when my wife and I had sex for three hours straight. There have also been times when we had sex for maybe three minutes? I think most people call that a quickie. 

Whatever the case, if you are happy and it works for you, what's the problem?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

It is good, was good for you two which is the most important. 
No reason to even be concerned!

You two are growing and drawing closer. That's the best of all.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> _*If this works, is it wrong? Is it missing the big picture? Is this how it works for anybody else? For context, she's 63, I'm 64. Thanks-*_


Hell no it's not wrong.

Next time, try to beat your 9 minute and 38 second record so she can get back to what she was doing even quicker. 😁


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral........


 [ throws away tissues ] sorry, what was your question?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Well, the first rule is W takes her panties of when coming to bed.

No real questions then. It's gonna happen. 

😉❤👍👍👍


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Our sex life has historically been the pits. Details in other threads but basically she tends to go along to get it over with, except when she cums first via oral. But that's a mixed bag as far as success goes. Initiate? For her, never. But last night we're reading through "Come As You Are" (recommended by our sex therapist for her), which is a pretty dense book for her, so I read it aloud and we talk about it after, what it means. Non-concordant signals and stuff. I get this idea hey, she doesn't enjoy this much, let's turn it into something different. Tell me when you're done with it by initiating. Just take my arm and say "I'm bored, I'm ready."
> 
> A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral. And yes, turns out she's ready. She's there and done pretty fast. Not faked, actually done. It's always a crap shoot figuring out how to heighten suspense while not losing the moment. She loses the moment really easy. And at that point she's quite ready for me. The only time she's ready for me (after she's already had an orgasm). For me, the option of playing it out, taking my time, runs the risk of losing her "moment" and her becoming bored. So I'm on it pretty fast, and for me, the time I'm spending on her (oral) is every bit as satisfying as the time spent inside her. I keep my mind on the game, keep the dark thoughts aside, and I'm done pretty soon.
> 
> ...


Are you perhaps wondering what sex SHOULD be like? (At 63? I wish I still had your curiosity at 40...).
It is really whatever you both make it out to be.
There isn’t really a FAQ for this sadly (did I spell that correctly?)

I don’t know how to give helpful tips (without being disgusting) but let me just say that there is potential to ‘ween’ her to do or participate in things more, once she gets going...To the point that she may grow to like them so much that she won’t be able to cum without them in future...
It can be like day and night. ‘No way am I doing this’ would be the typical reply at breakfast or whatever. Changing quickly to ‘give me more of that’ once she gets going.

My point is, don’t just ‘stick it in’ if that’s not all you are satisfied with. Pick your moments when you wish to be more creative and then experiment.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

bobert said:


> If you are both happy with it then it doesn't matter what other people think or do.


Are you asking because you feel something feels off? Are you satisfied? Is she satisfied?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

pastasauce79 said:


> Are you asking because you feel something feels off? Are you satisfied? Is she satisfied?


I have the slight suspicion you don't know his story...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Damn. I'm 58. It isn't all downhill after 40.

Dear W and I maintain a pretty steady 4 to 7 times a week, always have made sex and experimentation a priority in our relationship. We like the closeness. 

Also, the freedom is having the freedom to try things, even things that make us laugh, and move on. Cause we know we'll be there for the next time, in good spirits.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Damn. I'm 58. It isn't all downhill after 40.
> 
> Dear W and I maintain a pretty steady 4 to 7 times a week, always have made sex and experimentation a priority in our relationship. We like the closeness.
> 
> Also, the freedom is having the freedom to try things, even things that make us laugh, and move on. Cause we know we'll be there for the next time, in good spirits.


It really is lovely when you find a very compatible partner. Quite jealous...


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Thanks. I do think we're fortunate in things we do together.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

In Absentia said:


> I have the slight suspicion you don't know his story...


I've read a little bit about his story. I don't know what he can do next, but I see they are working and trying to change things.

If they know how and when things work is that good enough for him? Can he be satisfied? Because we all can be asking others what's normal or not in their relationship but that may not be normal in our relationship and that's ok! We are individuals after all. 

9 minutes seem quick? According to what? Who cares about the time as long as they are satisfied, but I think he feels something is not right?


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

Btw this is not ‘speed sex’. Speed sex is measured in seconds I would have thought...
This is called ‘efficient wife’.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Impulse said:


> Btw this is not ‘speed sex’. Speed sex is measured in seconds I would have thought...
> This is called ‘efficient wife’.


I was waiting for this exact comment. 

It does apply now and then!!

Well done!!


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I think the most telling thing to me is that afterwards, you both enjoyed some time together feeling that post sex intimacy and you really enjoyed that. To me, that adds onto your 9 minutes with some seriously good quality time together. 9 minutes was enough to activate that chemical bond we get from sex. Don't question it...just make note of what those songs were...you might want to listen to them again.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Just curious; did you meet speed dating?


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Couples with young children be like: Huh... a whole ten minutes for sex? Continuous?


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

moco82 said:


> Couples with young children be like: Huh... a whole ten minutes for sex? Continuous?


Um...young?? I have teenagers and it's impossible to find time that you're not scared they'll walk in on you. My kids are just getting used to the idea of me having a boyfriend and the last thing I need is to scar them for life and make things even more awkward between them and him. But as my exH is away and BF was battled a kidney stone last week it had been a while...we snuck in a super quickie while my kids were watching a movie. I was terrified the entire time. LOL


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

For those wanting to know the three songs... it's a very odd mix that Spotify came up with. I doubt anyone here will recognize all three-

Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Genesis)
I Think of You (Renaissance)
Good Captain Clack (Procol Harum)

Thankfully she got Lamb and some of I Think of You. Don't think Good Captain Clack would have done much for her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> For those wanting to know the three songs... it's a very odd mix that Spotify came up with. I doubt anyone here will recognize all three-
> 
> Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Genesis)
> I Think of You (Renaissance)
> ...


Outstanding!
I suggest adding some blues. Nothing like slow driving blues back beat when enjoying a romp.


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> Um...young?? I have teenagers and it's impossible to find time that you're not scared they'll walk in on you. My kids are just getting used to the idea of me having a boyfriend and the last thing I need is to scar them for life and make things even more awkward between them and him. But as my exH is away and BF was battled a kidney stone last week it had been a while...we snuck in a super quickie while my kids were watching a movie. I was terrified the entire time. LOL


Fear is a very powerful stimulant to heighten the senses  (said no rapist, ever). Joking!
That’s why not always hiding in the closed and getting outdoors can also be quite amazing. Like nature intended!


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> Um...young?? I have teenagers and it's impossible to find time that you're not scared they'll walk in on you. My kids are just getting used to the idea of me having a boyfriend and the last thing I need is to scar them for life and make things even more awkward between them and him. But as my exH is away and BF was battled a kidney stone last week it had been a while...we snuck in a super quickie while my kids were watching a movie. I was terrified the entire time. LOL


Been there, done that with kids.

I understand what you feel having sex around teenagers but that's what God invented locks for bedroom doors and music.

Soon you'll find a happy balance there. It's way better when you get comfortable with telling older kids you and dad are taking a nap. It's never as big a thing as one thinks when kids realize you're having sex.

Good for you for keeping sex alive at home!


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Been there, done that with kids.
> 
> I understand what you feel having sex around teenagers but that's what God invented locks for bedroom doors and music.
> 
> ...


If I was having sex with their Dad, besides it being a shock since he's gay and we're divorced, I would not have a problem with heading upstairs, locking the door and having our time. But this was with my boyfriend, who they are not entirely comfortable around yet and the very last thing they need is to walk in on that!!!!! I'm trying not to overwhelm them with my new life. BF and I are lucky in that he lives alone so it's very easy for us to have time to ourselves and not have to worry about this...but I am stuck at my house all week because the exH is away so I'm home with the kids. BF came for dinner and well...as I said, it had been a while. It all worked out...kids were none the wiser.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

notmyjamie said:


> If I was having sex with their Dad, besides it being a shock since he's gay and we're divorced, I would not have a problem with heading upstairs, locking the door and having our time. But this was with my boyfriend, who they are not entirely comfortable around yet and the very last thing they need is to walk in on that!!!!! I'm trying not to overwhelm them with my new life. BF and I are lucky in that he lives alone so it's very easy for us to have time to ourselves and not have to worry about this...but I am stuck at my house all week because the exH is away so I'm home with the kids. BF came for dinner and well...as I said, it had been a while. It all worked out...kids were none the wiser.


Yep, boyfriends would be different.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Heck, just be glad you can both get off that easy! I reckon by now, you both know what works for you, right? I mean, you can still always try it your own way for your own benefit occasionally. You might want to warn her first some way.
> 
> But if she's all happy about it, then great. Just throw in some non-sex cuddle on the couch time because most women like that a lot, and just being attentive about what they're up to in their daily living.


The non-sex cuddles on the couch remain an issue, because she's still thinking it wouldn't be happening unless it leads to sex, which, for her, discredits it. And yes, it DOES lead to sex, but not then, maybe the next day, whatever. It remains an issue in our relationship that sex or should we say sexual tension is a no-go for her. Sex itself can be OK, at the time. 


FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think its cool you all at least go to a sex therapist.


You might not if you saw the bill! $260/session. The good thing about that? It's an incentive to expect performance (an appropriate metaphor). You're paying so the therapist better deliver. I don't give her anywhere near the same latitude I give the therapists who are highly subsidized through our health plan.


bobert said:


> I don't think 10 minutes is too fast for a "quickie". I've had plenty of sex that, start to finish, was like 2 minutes... So that's where my mind goes when I think of a quickie. Add in the before and after stuff like cuddling, and that makes it less of a quickie. To me, a quickie is "let's do this quickly before the kids notice we're gone" or "before the guests get here" and there is no time for the extra stuff.
> 
> *I can go down on my wife for an hour and there is still a 0.01% chance of getting her off.* So she usually doesn't want to bother with that because it won't work anyway. Then sex often turns into just doing it and getting it over with. Either I finish quickly to get it over with or have a hard time and take forever because she's clearly not into it so neither am I.


The bolded part is a real issue for me. If it doesn't happen pretty quickly, not only isn't it going to happen, but it builds resentment on her part. It's like, why are you trying to force this on me? Which would be fine _IF_ she gave better signals for what's happening, what's not. SHE has to be the one communicating because, frankly, while giving oral to your wife it's kind of like when the dentist has all the tools in your mouth and he's expecting you to carry on a conversation? The answer is to figure out, pretty quickly, if things are going anywhere. It would be so much easier if she would take some degree of control or responsibility.


lifeistooshort said:


> We've had plenty of 10 minute sessions that were fabulous. It's like having a power nap...
> 10 minutes and you feel great!


I think the nap comes afterward? Instead of a cigarette?


PieceOfSky said:


> Sounds great to me. Even sounds like progress.
> 
> *Are you worried that that sort of scenario is going to become the only one you are going to get to have?* Or that you just traded a potentially longer encounter for a briefer one?
> 
> ...


It's definitely an improvement. She is trying. 


In Absentia said:


> My wife started doing that (going through the motions as quickly as possible so she could have her orgasm), towards the end of our sex life... to be honest, I hated it. But if it's ok with you, I don't see anything wrong with it. Since we don't have sex anymore, I would go along even with a slightly mechanical "procedure" now... at least I would feel we are a bit close. We have lost that completely and it's sad. So, even if it's quick, I recommend having sex regardless.





As'laDain said:


> There have been times when my wife and I had sex for three hours straight. There have also been times when we had sex for maybe three minutes? I think most people call that a quickie.
> 
> Whatever the case, if you are happy and it works for you, what's the problem?


It doesn't work that way very often, but I'd be fine if that were the norm. I just wish there was a way for her to anticipate enjoying intimacy. Which I guess is why we're seeing a sex therapist.


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It is good, was good for you two which is the most important.
> No reason to even be concerned!
> 
> You two are growing and drawing closer. That's the best of all.


Yes, that is true. The process is susceptible to failure at any time though; she cannot develop any momentum for progress. It's a groundhog day thing. But we're learning what she's capable of, which is something we didn't know before. That is progress in itself.


She'sStillGotIt said:


> Hell no it's not wrong.
> 
> Next time, try to beat your 9 minute and 38 second record so she can get back to what she was doing even quicker. 😁


I don't think she can do much better than 4 minutes. Look, I'm a guy, I don't have a woman's perspective on this, but I would think several minutes of extreme pleasure with an orgasm that lasts maybe one full minute of it would be preferable to something much shorter? For my part, I'm jealous of what she gets to enjoy vs me. I don't get the long extended orgasm that she does. That part might be, what, 15 seconds? I'm thinking, unless it made it more likely she'd orgasm, I'm not interested in anything shorter. BUT- if 4 or 5 minutes was 50% reliable while 2 minutes was 80%? I'd be all over the 2 minutes for her. 


Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Well, the first rule is W takes her panties of when coming to bed.
> 
> No real questions then. It's gonna happen.
> 
> 😉❤👍👍👍


My wife is more likely to get turned on, or in the mood I guess, when her panties are actually on. It's a fantasy thing I think. Is that just her?


Impulse said:


> Are you perhaps wondering what sex SHOULD be like? (At 63? I wish I still had your curiosity at 40...).
> It is really whatever you both make it out to be.
> There isn’t really a FAQ for this sadly (did I spell that correctly?)
> 
> ...


Sigh. We're in therapy because she still has really severe issues associating sex with being a good thing. She went through some stuff early on that convinced her that sex got her into bad places so she essentially swore it off before meeting me. And without telling me. So right now, if I push too hard, we will quickly go back to her telling me how much she's resented sex these past 40+ years. I hope to get there though. 


In Absentia said:


> I have the slight suspicion you don't know his story...


It's a story that's still searching for an ending. It's my hope that you will find some hope if things work out. So yes, sometimes I think about what you've gone through, what you're going through, and it's like, I can't fail, @In Absentia needs to see that the impossible can happen. 


pastasauce79 said:


> I've read a little bit about his story. I don't know what he can do next, but I see they are working and trying to change things.
> 
> If they know how and when things work is that good enough for him? Can he be satisfied? Because we all can be asking others what's normal or not in their relationship but that may not be normal in our relationship and that's ok! We are individuals after all.
> 
> 9 minutes seem quick? According to what? Who cares about the time as long as they are satisfied, but I think he feels something is not right?


I posted here partly for amusement, to tell you the truth. I had no idea it was THAT quick until I noticed the music that had played through. 


Impulse said:


> Btw this is not ‘speed sex’. Speed sex is measured in seconds I would have thought...
> This is called ‘efficient wife’.


I'm all for "efficient wife"!!! As long as it gets here "there." 


notmyjamie said:


> I think the most telling thing to me is that afterwards, you both enjoyed some time together feeling that post sex intimacy and you really enjoyed that. To me, *that adds onto your 9 minutes with some seriously good quality time together. 9 minutes was enough to activate that chemical bond we get from sex*. Don't question it...just make note of what those songs were...you might want to listen to them again.


Absolutely!


Married but Happy said:


> Just curious; did you meet speed dating?


The opposite really. 


Casual Observer said:


> For those wanting to know the three songs... it's a very odd mix that Spotify came up with. I doubt anyone here will recognize all three-
> 
> Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Genesis)
> I Think of You (Renaissance)
> ...


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Casual, there just shouldn't be any sexual tension sitting with your arm around your wife or her leaning on you as you watch TV. Sex is just not the end game there. A person has got to be able to relax with their partner without everything becoming an issue about sex. Relaxing on the couch in a little cuddle is not about sex. Maybe you should verbalize a rule and say from now on let's just say the sofa is a place for affection but never a place to start sex. Then you could both relax in the living room.


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> Sigh. We're in therapy because she still has really severe issues associating sex with being a good thing. She went through some stuff early on that convinced her that sex got her into bad places so she essentially swore it off before meeting me. And without telling me. So right now, if I push too hard, we will quickly go back to her telling me how much she's resented sex these past 40+ years. I hope to get there though.


Get where exactly? You need her to enjoy the sex? How would this need to be shown?
Don’t put that kind of pressure on her (and yourself). Be careful not to become one of those “Looney Tunes” husbands: “I gonna love you, I gonna squeeze you, I gonna hug you, I gonna go down on you and if you don’t enjoy it and cum enthusiastically every time, I gonna smother you with more love until you do....”

I mean how do you know what her enjoyment of sex is supposed to look like, exactly?
Be careful, some women can get really put off by men that second guess themselves the whole time or are waiting for cues or clues or expecting to be told what to do. 

Do YOU actually want it? Because if there is any doubt about it in her mind that you do, then forget about it.

If she feels cuddling leads to sex all the time then don’t cuddle (or skip the cuddles and go straight to sex then at least she won’t feel you are scheming for sex).

If you feel she is under a lot of pressure from you to enjoy it when you are trying to please her...have you tried pleasing yourself instead? (By ‘using’ her I mean). 

There seem to be many men in more recent times that I feel are overthinking the whole sex thing in their marriage...Maybe it’s because of the whole #metoo stuff I dunno but YOU are supposed to enjoy it and take her along for the ride. Not make her the centre of attention. You should do that outside the bedroom instead.

Sorry if I got it all wrong. I guess I don’t quite understand what the issue is.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Impulse said:


> Get where exactly? You need her to enjoy the sex? How would this need to be shown?
> Don’t put that kind of pressure on her (and yourself). Be careful not to become one of those “Looney Tunes” husbands: “I gonna love you, I gonna squeeze you, I gonna hug you, I gonna go down on you and if you don’t enjoy it and cum enthusiastically every time, I gonna smother you with more love until you do....”
> 
> I mean how do you know what her enjoyment of sex is supposed to look like, exactly?
> ...


Edited and deleted a bunch of stuff found elsewhere...

So yeah, it's complicated. But we're working through it.


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

Casual Observer said:


> There are other threads where my situation is played out; it's complicated. But in a nutshell, my wife and I are dealing with stuff that should have been dealt with decades ago. Many decades ago. She went from being an extremely sexual person to having an aversion to it, the moment we first had actual sex. Had me feeling guilty about taking her virginity prior to marriage, and for the next 40 years she did everything she could to avoid it, without ever telling the truth, until her past caught up with her, involving at least two guys she'd had sex with, she certainly enjoyed it with the first guy, then she rewrites her history when she meets me, I get to play the fall guy for her losing her virginity, there's religion involved, she doubles-down repeatedly on her cover story, never tells her counselors or therapists along the way about any issues involving sex, tells me right after marriage she'd be fine with sex once or twice a month, at most...
> 
> So yeah, it's complicated. But we're working through it.


Yes, I read some of it...but what’s the issue NOW? Or rather: why is this an issue now, for you, if it has always been like this between the two of you?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Impulse said:


> Yes, I read some of it...but what’s the issue NOW? Or rather: why is this an issue now, for you, if it has always been like this between the two of you?


Because I decided that, knowing the root cause, maybe things could change? Because it doesn't always have to be this way? The issue NOW is, well, some of it is wondering what's normal. Some of it is just having a bit of fun with something (the speed sex) and wondering how it goes down elsewhere. I don't know. Maybe I've had 40+ years of non-growth in this area. I need to learn and catch up!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Impulse said:


> Get where exactly? You need her to enjoy the sex? How would this need to be shown?
> *Don’t put that kind of pressure on her (and yourself). Be careful not to become one of those *“Looney Tunes” husbands: “I gonna love you, I gonna squeeze you, I gonna hug you, I gonna go down on you and if you don’t enjoy it and cum enthusiastically every time, I gonna smother you with more love until you do....”
> 
> I mean how do you know what her enjoyment of sex is supposed to look like, exactly?
> ...


@Casual Observer,

I think there are some good points there to keep in mind. I’m curious if you’ve considered whether such factors complicate your situation, and whether things like that come up at your therapy sessions or discussions at home.

It’s kind of difficult to be presented with such a problematic “desire issue” for multiple decades and not become extra attentive to her experience and trying to make it better for her. Over time, such attentiveness could become an ingrained part of the problem, in multiple ways I suppose.

I feel like this is one of the ways in which I have facilitated the demise of my marital sex life and marriage. Had I cared more about my own experience and cared less about hers — at least some of the time — she might have been more responsive to me. No doubt, some of her other lovers, decades ago, were naturally more self-centered.

Things I’ve gleaned from women posting here suggests a bias towards wanting to not feel as if the man “needs” her to feel pleasure to be fulfilled himself. Seems the ideal is towards him taking something he wants (not beyond a certain line of course) and being confident he deserves it and that she won’t mind. And I think that is probably true for a lot of women, not just for women who would consider themselves particularly “submissive”. (Ladies, please feel free to set me straight if I’ve misunderstood.)

I think after awhile, it becomes extremely difficult to approach sex beforehand with the right mindset, maintain the right mindset during, and to reflect accurately afterwards. The dynamics in play really favor destructiveness/disconnect over time, and a diminishment and invalidation of the HD partner’s value and expectations in his or her own mind.

Not sure where I’m going with this. Maybe that considering there are downward shifts in outlook/attitude/feeling/self-concept/self-esteem over time, maybe it’s useful to check in with yourself from time to time to see if a more self-valuing approach and outlook would mix things up for the good.


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## Impulse (Jun 10, 2020)

PieceOfSky said:


> @Casual Observer,
> 
> I think there are some good points there to keep in mind. I’m curious if you’ve considered whether such factors complicate your situation, and whether things like that come up at your therapy sessions or discussions at home.
> 
> ...


Yes, all of that.
And sometimes it doesn’t just apply to sex. I see some couples just disintegrate slowly because both are waiting for the other’s inputs and cues when it comes to decisions, direction in life, which movie to watch, where to go, which position etc...it becomes a ‘blind leading the deaf’ type of relationship when both are unsure about anything and waiting for the other to take the initiative. 

I don’t mean this to sound one sided (that it’s all down to you). I can only try to construct a picture from your writing and there’s only you to talk to as your wife is not present...She obviously needs to be receptive to you being a leader and trust you enough to lead her somewhere where she would want to be led and be comfortable to let herself experience pleasure, from you wanting to do stuff to her/with her...

I do sympathise and think that it’s not always fair that some men need to be put in this position in order for a marriage to even begin to function: that you have to always play the role of being her solid emotional rock all your life, and expected to take a lot of it on yourself but I noticed that some women cannot have it any other way: they need to have that sort of respect and that sort of chemistry in order to feel attracted and allow themselves to be wanted; not because he wants her to be happy & pleasured but because HE wants her, for himself, and he will get his pleasure any way he can, fighting for it, fighting for her, if he has to. I don’t mean this to sound rapey or abusive; it’s just that something got lost over the years and a dynamic (and rawness of it) between man and woman began to disappear or change more and more. It got replaced with the more understanding, respectful, concerning ‘eager to please’ husband (who btw may very well be very neglectful in many other ways; it’s just that his mind is only fixed on the sex aspect this moment). Which is good in many walks of life but don’t also lose that other side!

But like I said, provided she lets you. If she is not attracted to you in the first place (and I am not going to lie, I am somewhat concerned by your sentence ‘her interest in sex stopped completely when she met me’) then nothing you do will make any difference. Neither will the million explanations and ‘insights’ you will get from the therapist. Those will be just words for her conscience to feel better about the fact that she is just not that into you. And that could also be ok too. There will always be someone who is a lot more into you and where you may feel a lot more comfortable being the leader. It’s all relative and never as one sided as comes across on forums.
Good luck


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> Lamb Lies Down on Broadway (Genesis)
> I Think of You (Renaissance)
> Good Captain Clack (Procol Harum)


You are showing your age...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Casual Observer said:


> It's my hope that you will find some hope if things work out. So yes, sometimes I think about what you've gone through, what you're going through, and it's like, I can't fail, @In Absentia needs to see that the impossible can happen


Thanks for your kind words, but I've given up. It hurts, but there is no point in prolonging the agony. Until she fixes herself, nothing will happen. And she is not going to fix herself. She's given up. Sitting there, eating chocolate and getting really fat. Fair enough. I have no power to change that. I guess it's her coping mechanism.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

CO, was your wife more attracted to the bad-boy type and you weren't one? She decided after her first two experiences that she wanted stability over “danger“? Females (especially when they’re really young) marry who they do for many reasons — often practical— and sex is not necessarily a consideration the way it usually is for males.

I understand your wife. I don’t agree at all with what she’s done and how she’s lived her life (and I don’t really like her) but I do understand her. And I don’t think you’ll ever get what you truly want from her but, hopefully, you’ll get enough to make all of this worthwhile.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

In my opinion speed sex or quickies is not good nor bad. It is just something different and you can choose to be positive or negative afterwards. 

Generally speaking many of us have too much of a tendency to focus on, worry about, or question if something was negative. Then it creates a self fulfilling prophecy that the experience indeed was somehow a negative one. THAT type of thinking is what destroys intimacy and pleasure in a long term relationship. When something works out and you have fun, let it be just that. If anything try and go out of your way to reinforce what was positive and share your happiness about it. 

In my marriage I have tried to shift from arguing and complaining about sex to focusing on the positive and turning things into a compliment. When something negative happens, I try to find some way to twist it into a good joke and laugh at myself. 

Generally speaking I don't like quickies and I tell my wife it is because I am to needy. The reason I am needy is because she is so yummy and I tell her that it is all her fault and that I actually enjoy her making me needy. We will both laugh and she will shove her boobs in my face and tell me to deal with it!


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Thanks for your kind words, but I've given up. It hurts, but there is no point in prolonging the agony. Until she fixes herself, nothing will happen. And she is not going to fix herself. She's given up. Sitting there, eating chocolate and getting really fat. Fair enough. I have no power to change that. I guess it's her coping mechanism.


As hard as that is, I hope you at least feel a sense of peace with yourself that you gave her more than a fair number of chances to assert she wanted differently for herself and to show you she was interested in and motivated to change.

If you’re at all like me (and I think you might be), it’s important to “be sure” you’ve left no stone unturned, rejected no possible solution. Being fair, kind, understanding and supportive is, for some of us, something of high value, especially towards someone you have shared so much with and loved, warts and all.

For me, it’s been an epistemological challenge, one in line with the value I tend to place on “knowing” what I know for a fact vs what is only my best speculation. That sometimes works well for me (in my vocation for instance), but is not always efficient or effective in interpersonal relationships, especially when one considers the passage of time never pauses.

Sounds like you have achieved “certainty”. I hope you enjoy and build from the freedom that it gives you. I wish you peace and happiness, and am confident it is yours to be made.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

Impulse said:


> Get where exactly? You need her to enjoy the sex? How would this need to be shown?
> Don’t put that kind of pressure on her (and yourself). Be careful not to become one of those “Looney Tunes” husbands: “I gonna love you, I gonna squeeze you, I gonna hug you, I gonna go down on you and if you don’t enjoy it and cum enthusiastically every time, I gonna smother you with more love until you do....”
> 
> I mean how do you know what her enjoyment of sex is supposed to look like, exactly?
> ...


I completely agree and I can relate to this. I don't want the guy focusing on me and my pleasure. Just take care of yourself and mine will follow. By that I mean exactly what you're saying. Watching and waiting for reactions from me. Overthinking it. Trying too hard. It's tiring for me. I hate that. Ironically the best pleasure from me has been with guys who followed their own lust and desire rather than trying to work to mine. The worst sex I've had has been with guys who try too hard and focus too much on me and my pleasure.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Our sex life has historically been the pits. Details in other threads but basically she tends to go along to get it over with, except when she cums first via oral. But that's a mixed bag as far as success goes. Initiate? For her, never. But last night we're reading through "Come As You Are" (recommended by our sex therapist for her), which is a pretty dense book for her, so I read it aloud and we talk about it after, what it means. Non-concordant signals and stuff. I get this idea hey, she doesn't enjoy this much, let's turn it into something different. Tell me when you're done with it by initiating. Just take my arm and say "I'm bored, I'm ready."
> 
> A few minutes later she tells me ok, I'm bored. So we put the book down, turn off the lights, turn on the music (which has seemed to help) and I'm stroking her for a couple minutes over her panties. Around her panties. Under her panties. A couple minutes of this and, as usual, she doesn't give much of a clue if I'm getting anywhere. So I dive in for oral. And yes, turns out she's ready. She's there and done pretty fast. Not faked, actually done. It's always a crap shoot figuring out how to heighten suspense while not losing the moment. She loses the moment really easy. And at that point she's quite ready for me. The only time she's ready for me (after she's already had an orgasm). For me, the option of playing it out, taking my time, runs the risk of losing her "moment" and her becoming bored. So I'm on it pretty fast, and for me, the time I'm spending on her (oral) is every bit as satisfying as the time spent inside her. I keep my mind on the game, keep the dark thoughts aside, and I'm done pretty soon.
> 
> ...


Nothing broken here sir. Continue.

When Mrs. Conan and I first started, I was 20 and she 31. We went at it like machines or hormone fueled animals in heat and she could take it for long periods of time.

As I'm nearing 50 and she 61, I don't have the same virility I did 30 years ago and she cannot keep going like she use to.

We have shorter sessions by necessity mostly because she can lose it if our balance is not right and she also can't generate enough lubrication for extended play to be enjoyable.

We still have great sex even though actual intercourse can't be for extended lengths anymore.

We are still working on our game and still discovering new things in technique and style so it is still a voyage of discovery and still wonderfully satisfying.

Keep on good sir. Both of sets of your equipment still work and it looks like you both are enjoying it!


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Sounds like you have achieved “certainty”. I hope you enjoy and build from the freedom that it gives you. I wish you peace and happiness, and am confident it is yours to be made.


Unfortunately, I have achieved no certainty. This is because my wife won't talk about her mental issues. So, I don't know where to draw the line. To what extent our problems stem from her mental issues. What's my exact contribution to this. She only said 50/50. So I have no way to achieve closure. I don't think I will ever be free.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> Unfortunately, I have achieved no certainty. This is because my wife won't talk about her mental issues. So, I don't know where to draw the line. To what extent our problems stem from her mental issues. What's my exact contribution to this. She only said 50/50. So I have no way to achieve closure. I don't think I will ever be free.


You don’t need certainty about the cause of why she is the way she is, or if there was something in the past that you could have done differently, do you? Neither of those impossible, paralysis-inducing, soul-sucking theoretical questions are answerable - for you or anyone else in such situations. None of the answers really have a place in healthy decision making about choices that you have in the moment, imho.

You seemed certain she will change if and only if she generates that change within herself. You seemed certain she is not going to generate that change. That there is nothing left for you to do differently. In that sense you are free, if you want to be.

Change the question, it might change your life. Nothing good for anyone is coming from wanting to know more about the “whys”.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

PieceOfSky said:


> Change the question, it might change your life. Nothing good for anyone is coming from wanting to know more about the “whys”.


Unanswered questions will plague some of us to the grave. It's easy to say we should just dismiss them, but how we deal with our challenges is part of our makeup, part of, perhaps most of, who we are. It's not something you can flip a switch or have an epiphany for, DESPITE that you're desperately looking for that very thing in the person you love.

Ultimately, it may be guilt driven. We WANT to fix our relationship. We love that person so very much. Did we leave a stone unturned? Did we give up too easily? We see threads here about how long it takes to heal from a betrayal. It's perhaps even worse when there isn't a clear-cut thing you can put your finger on and say THIS is what I must deal with.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Casual Observer said:


> Unanswered questions will plague some of us to the grave. It's easy to say we should just dismiss them, but how we deal with our challenges is part of our makeup, part of, perhaps most of, who we are. It's not something you can flip a switch or have an epiphany for, DESPITE that you're desperately looking for that very thing in the person you love.
> 
> Ultimately, it may be guilt driven. We WANT to fix our relationship. We love that person so very much. Did we leave a stone unturned? Did we give up too easily? We see threads here about how long it takes to heal from a betrayal. It's perhaps even worse when there isn't a clear-cut thing you can put your finger on and say THIS is what I must deal with.


Right, it’s not easy for some of us to let certain questions go. I’d agree “Needing to know” some of these things is deeply wired in to some of us by now. I don’t mean to trivialize the desire to know or the immense difficulty of letting go.

There are lots of complications, too. If a spouse could easily introspect and self-analyze, or if we were privy to their actual thoughts and feelings rather than trying to catch a glimpse via shadows, then maybe the truth would surface. But those things don’t happen. Yet we don’t give that fact due consideration in judging the usefulness of the goal.

But, after awhile, accepting that the question won’t be answered and refocusing is the only opportunity exists. It’s something one has the power to change in oneself, or at least has the power to work on with a chance to get somewhere.

And, yes, there can be subconscious motives (guilt driven for instance), that can keep people from pursuing that opportunity. If, after decades, one is still unwilling to even try to let go of uncovering “what’s wrong and why”, then its worth asking oneself what subconsciously one might be getting out of it.

One of my favorite books, read about 30 years ago, is “You Don’t Have To Suffer” (Tatlebaum, iirc) Easier said than done. But I think the author was right.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

I guess my problem is - if I don't know the real reasons - I'll carry on feeling guilty for the rest of my life. I need to know for closure. It's torture right now. Feeling that you have contributed to the mental issues of your partner and the demise of your marriage is a big burden to carry. I also feel a lot of regret for my mistakes.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Openminded said:


> CO, was your wife more attracted to the bad-boy type and you weren't one? She decided after her first two experiences that she wanted stability over “danger“? Females (especially when they’re really young) marry who they do for many reasons — often practical— and sex is not necessarily a consideration the way it usually is for males.
> 
> I understand your wife. I don’t agree at all with what she’s done and how she’s lived her life (and I don’t really like her) but I do understand her. And I don’t think you’ll ever get what you truly want from her but, hopefully, you’ll get enough to make all of this worthwhile.


I've created a different thread dealing with a variant of the bad-boy thing. It's more about adrenalin than the bad-boy. Obviously the bad-boy is a handy (or should I say randy?) source of adrenalin! But I think we're making a mistake (which could be entirely wishful thinking) assuming that desire is starts and ends with bad-boy sex. For some, including my wife (which anyone who knows her would see this as absurd, given her out-of-shapeness and inability to create excitement on her own), it might be about pushing boundaries hard and continuously. Not super-risky stuff, but super-active. Desire is seen on our rather-intense no-time-to-breathe vacations. When she is most exhausted is when desire creeps back in. She is not thinking about sex when she's out hiking for hours, but the mode it puts her brain into creates a very strong responsive desire. It's not spontaneous. But strongly responsive is pretty f'in good to me.


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