# I have faith in a better future



## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

I am the husband of a beautiful and extraordinary woman, and I was engaged in an emotional affair with a coworker. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I am posting because it is my hope that somebody involved in an affair will read these words and end it, or the words will contribute to somebody's healing. I also believe and hope that writing this will help my wife and I heal from the unbelievable trauma my actions created.

It is hard to know where to begin. I have learned so much about marriage, about myself and my wife, about honesty and integrity, and about love and commitment through this process. For anyone trying to understand an emotional affair with a coworker, I strongly endorse Shirley Glass' book, Not Just Friends. It was and remains invaluable to my wife and me. I also strongly recommend good marriage counseling, and I am grateful for the help we have received.

When my wife uncovered my affair, I was not honest with her or myself about its scope or intensity, and I even withheld information about the affair up until very recently, causing further trauma. I am not a psychologist, but I have thought a lot about honesty in the past 10 months. I believe my dishonesty and inability to be fully forthcoming with her stemmed from my desire to protect myself, on several levels. I wanted to protect myself from the reaction the truth would cause, and I wanted to protect myself, even subconsciously, from acknowledging the depths to which I had sunk. I also wanted to protect her from further hurt. And, being inherently non-confrontational, I wanted to avoid further conflict in our conversations. I have learned the hard way that the truth, however painful, is always better than a half truth or a lie.

The result of my dishonesty was devastating. I lost any credibility I had, and repeatedly lost whatever trust I had built up to that point in time. Simple honesty, I have learned, is not in and of itself enough to rebuild trust - the unfaithful spouse has to proactively engage on the painfully shameful topic of the infidelity to meet the faithful spouse on their level of need for detail.

This has proven to be vey difficult for me, and I still struggle with it. I fit the classic male pattern of wanting to put this horrible episode behind me, move forward and look to a better future. For me, I thought (and still tend to think) that a good day is one where we don't discuss my infidelity, or the third person, or our trauma. My wife, however, is highly sensitive and highly perceptive, and has the kind of personality that wants to explore the details and fully understand why, when, where. Not discussing these issues is to her avoidance, and she understandably tires from always bearing the burden of prompting me to address the elephant in the room, the black cloud that hangs over us. It is hard for me to initiate conversations about my infidelity when I know that they might cause confrontation, or hurt which leads to anger, or a trigger or a flashback.

In the healing journey we have learned a lot about safety. My wife needs to feel safe, and safety takes the form of knowing that I am being honest and forthcoming, knowing that I am not exhibiting the kinds of behaviors that led me down the path before, knowing at she comes first in my life, even if it is at cost to me, and knowing that I am willing to do the uncomfortable work to get to the root cause of the harm I caused. I need safety too, knowing that I can speak without judgment or lashing out, knowing when I get things right, knowing that she, too, wants to get to a place in our lives where the black cloud does not hang over us daily. I have tremendous faith in our marriage, and I believe that we will survive this. I have faith that we will even grow stronger, as I address the problems in my life that caused this trauma and we together learn about more open and effective communication.

I have more to share from my experience and expect that I will post again. Thank you for listening.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Well spoken and written, Lovesthesun.

How long ago was your EA?

How long did it last?

How did your wife discover it?

I have a feeling your story will help others who are attempting to reconcile with their loyal spouse.


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Lovesthesun said:


> I am the husband of a beautiful and extraordinary woman, and I was engaged in an emotional affair with a coworker. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I am posting because it is my hope that somebody involved in an affair will read these words and end it, or the words will contribute to somebody's healing. I also believe and hope that writing this will help my wife and I heal from the unbelievable trauma my actions created.
> 
> It is hard to know where to begin. I have learned so much about marriage, about myself and my wife, about honesty and integrity, and about love and commitment through this process. For anyone trying to understand an emotional affair with a coworker, I strongly endorse Shirley Glass' book, Not Just Friends. It was and remains invaluable to my wife and me. I also strongly recommend good marriage counseling, and I am grateful for the help we have received.
> 
> ...


Ya know, I read posts like this and then those of a few who militantly defend their betrayals and attack us who stand up for the right thing and I wonder how they manage to go through life justifying themselves with complete absence of humility or contriteness.


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## keepmyfamily (Nov 16, 2012)

I love that this was the first post I read after I signed in.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

I wish my spouse reads it!


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Did your wife become cynical?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Excellent Start LTS. ANOTHER Sun!!!!!!! OMFG!!!! Sun How could YOU allow this?!?!?!??!

I am so glad youre here. I think it can be cathardic and the people here have so much to offer. Alot of them have been either where you are(my H) or where your wife is(me). 

What do you hope to get here? What are your goals from posting?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Lovesthesun said:


> I am the husband of a beautiful and extraordinary woman, and I was engaged in an emotional affair with a coworker. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I am posting because it is my hope that somebody involved in an affair will read these words and end it, or the words will contribute to somebody's healing. I also believe and hope that writing this will help my wife and I heal from the unbelievable trauma my actions created.
> 
> It is hard to know where to begin. I have learned so much about marriage, about myself and my wife, about honesty and integrity, and about love and commitment through this process. For anyone trying to understand an emotional affair with a coworker, I strongly endorse Shirley Glass' book, Not Just Friends. It was and remains invaluable to my wife and me. I also strongly recommend good marriage counseling, and I am grateful for the help we have received.
> 
> ...


This is the very crux of what most WS do to cause even further damage. As you go forth, keep this in mind. Lying, either thru direct statements or omission is the most damaging thing you can do at this point. In most cases, the lies are every bit as damaging as the affair itself. Resist the tendancy toward this at all costs. It will keep Sun stuck. She cannot move on w/o the truth, the whole truth and nothing but. Its the way we are wired. As I have told my H many times, I can handle your truth- its the lies that are destroying us. At all cost- do NOT lie. Do not give half truths. No "IDR's" or "IDK's" when its not true. Give ALL of what you know. Keeping secrets between you and AP keeps the wall up to Sun and the window to OW- ruining your chance at real R. Remember walls and windows above all else going forward.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It's always wonderful to see that a couple is dedicated to work through an A toward real reconciliation. Both people need to be on board and it sounds like you are committed.

Since you sound like you love and admire your W & would like to offer your experience for others here, I hope you won't mind a question or two.

We see a lot of commonality of behavior here (aka 'the script), You describe your difficulty with honesty re your A. What was the final piece of the puzzle for you, i.e., what was the last bit of truth that you couldn't tell your W? Also, were you very resistant to considering what you were doing an affair?


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

Thank you to those who had kind words. I'll try to answer some of the questions. I cannot pinpoint when my affair began, but my attraction began over 2 years before it ended. The whole process seems to fit the pattern described Not Just Friends: I did not know how to set appropriate boundaries, I did not understand the danger of an attraction that was kept secret, and i was selfishly and shamefully caught up in a fantasy.

My wife discovered it by reading emails on my smartphone. It was confirmation of something she already strongly suspected and had previously confronted me about. I panicked at that time and lied - a pattern I would tragically repeat.

In response to a question, I cannot say that my wife became cynical in response to my trickle truth but, having been burned, she is understandably very wary of believing me. I am the boy who cried wolf - very much a problem of my own making. One thing I am learning the hard way is the importance of getting out of my own way - trying to avoid frustration or self pity if I am not believed, trying to overcome the natural tendency to worry about what others think, trying to avoid judgment, trying to be honest with myself about what I did and facing shame and guilt without being consumed by them.

My goals in posting are to help my wife and I heal by learning and listening, help myself address some of the issues that caused the affair and the post-affair trauma of deception, and, hopefully, help someone else who reads these posts.

As for the last question, while I'm not sure I fully understand it, I think the question is whether I was resistant to considering why I had an affair. I was, both because it involved some very painful and hard honest self-reflection, and because at first I really did not believe I had the tools to understand why. I think I do now, and will be working on the "why". I've learned so much that I feel better equipped to tackle the question. It's answer is critical to ensuring that neither infidelity nor dishonesty ever happen again.

There is a lot of "me" in this post, probably because I am trying to address the questions raised, but it is important that my wife and I answer the "why" question together. It will surely help us both feel safer.

Thanks again for listening.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I was asking whether you thought your relationship with your OW was actually an affair. Many people involved in EA's resist thinking of them as affairs at all. They develop insidiously and the idea that they are just harmless friendships persists, even though the people involved know that what is happening in their heads isn't just friendship. They seem to think if they don't perform certain actions, it can't be labeled an affair. Many of these EA's are very intense & the actors absolutely know that they are betraying their spouses. They communicate in secret and hide everything from their spouses. They are aware that what they are doing is illicit, but because there isn't intercourse, they tell themselves that it's OK, it's not an affair.

So, my question was whether you resisted thinking of your extramarital relationship as an affair.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

You said you wanted to address some issues. What issues exactly can we help with? What did you lie about? Have you given the WHOLE truth now? No ommissions, no holes in the story-everything. R is impossible without it. Tell us the nature of the affair. Tell us how long. Tell us when it went from attraction to an affair(and yes, you do know)there was a turning point. When was it? Tell us about the Poly. Why did you fail? Have you cut all contact both direct and indirect? No backdoor smoke signals? No "tell her hello" thru a friend? NOTHING? Tell us what you are doing to set this right. 

In Sun's thread she said she was "no longer more in love with you than you are with her". What does that mean to you? Why do you think that is? What can you do about it? 

Thats a good start.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

"So, my question was whether you resisted thinking of your extramarital relationship as an affair."

Yes, absolutely. I thought an affair meant a physical relationship. I had never heard the term "emotional affair" and was unaware such a thing even existed.

"What issues exactly can we help with?" Well, my affair was in part a result of my selfishness, and I hope that by posting I can learn to worry less about me and more about others - especially my wife!

"What did you lie about?" Many things. I lied about the scope and duration of the affair, I withheld details (like two instances in which I had placed my arm around her waist in public), I said I had told everything when I had not, and more.

"Have you given the WHOLE truth now?" Yes, I have. And it is a wonderful feeling of freedom.

"Tell us the nature of the affair." It was an emotional affair that manifested itself primarily in written communications, that went from inappropriate flirting to outright sexting at the end.

"Tell us how long." My attraction began sometime in 2009. I would say the flirtation began back then, kicked in in 2010, and grew in intensity thereafter, until it ended in Spring 2012.

"Tell us how long. Tell us when it went from attraction to an affair(and yes, you do know)there was a turning point. When was it?" I really don't know. If you define the beginning of the affair as the first time we exchanged a flirtatious email, I guess it would be 2009 or 2010. But I truly did not realize that she had an attraction for me until 2011 or so. It was the proverbial frog in the boiling water, getting incrementally hotter. So I'm not obfuscating here - I really don't recall a turning point, until the beginning of last year, when we first made sexual references in communication. That was a dangerous turning point, and I am grateful that my wife discovered this when she did.

"Tell us about the Poly. Why did you fail?" It was a horrible, horrible experience. Although I resented the idea of it, I wanted to take it because I wanted some way to prove the negative - that I had never had physical sexual contact with her, and to end the doubt. And by failing I only increased the doubt. I don't know why I failed - I have never studied polygraphs - but I was anxious, laden with guilt, still withholding some details of the affair, and had had "mental" sexual contact with her in my mind a lot. I am also the kind of person who always presumes that I am guilty of something. It has been awful - beyond words.

"Have you cut all contact both direct and indirect?" Absolutely, to the extent within my control. We no longer work together, although she still has some ties to my employer, and she still pops up in my workplace on occasion, although she does not attempt to speak to me or seek me out. If she does show up at the office, I call my wife immediately, avoid all contact whatsoever, and wait for her to be gone.

"No backdoor smoke signals? No "tell her hello" thru a friend? NOTHING?" NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. I love my wife very, very much - more than I could express in a post - and this experience (for which i am absolutely responsible) has been pure hell. There is just no way I would do that, nor do I have the desire to.

"Tell us what you are doing to set this right." I have set up walls with this woman, and opened windows into my life with my wife. I have read several books on relevant subjects. I have actively participated in ongoing counseling. I have tried hard to rebuild trust by being open and honest, in all facets of my life. My wife has access to and a standing invitation to see any communication I make, anywhere, any time. I have spent time going back over the shameful and painful details with my wife. I have tried to show my wife how much I love her and to reassure her of the safety of my love. I have spent a lot of time in prayer. I have worked on trying to figure out why this happened, and more.

"In Sun's thread she said she was "no longer more in love with you than you are with her". What does that mean to you? Why do you think that is? What can you do about it?" That is unbelievably personal and painful. I never thought of our love being unequal in some fashion. There is no doubt that if I loved her the way she deserved to be loved, the way she loved me, I would not have had an affair. And my affair has caused her to see me as a deeply flawed betrayer, which understandably reduces her love for and attraction to me. I also hurt her, and it is hard to love the ones who hurt us. So what can I do? I can live a fully honest, open life, with her and others. I can show her my love by pursuing her and trying to win her back. I can relate to other women, in my mind and in person, in a manner that honors her - no fantasy life. I can work to rebuild trust, I can try to understand her needs and wants better, I can communicate better, I can build time into our lives for us (no kids), I can laugh with her, I can be a more patient listener, I can tell her how much I love her and how beautiful she is, more often, I can tell others the same (and show them), and much, much more. By God's grace.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Lovesthesun said:


> There is no doubt that if I loved her the way she deserved to be loved, the way she loved me, I would not have had an affair.


Two questions:

- What were your feelings about your W in the three years that you were focused on your OW?

- How would you have felt if your W had engaged in an affair like yours, over a 3-year period? Did you consider this at all when you were in your A?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Thank you for answering my questions. I will likely have more as we go through. The more open and honest you are the faster your healing and your wifes. Take it from me, someone who's H had a very difficult time with coming out with the whole truth for a long time. The old addage "the truth shall set you free" has much merit in this situation. Use the truth as your bridge to rebuliding your marriage. No matter how hard the truth, its easier for your W than the nicest lie


. *"I never thought of our love being unequal in some fashion. There is no doubt that if I loved her the way she deserved to be loved, the way she loved me, I would not have had an affair"*.

This is good to recognize. Now the next thing is to get to the 'why' of this. And for you to take some time to truly understand what impact a statement like this has on your wife. Really try to feel it LTS. What you just said here was that you didnt love your wife enough to honor your vows. You didnt love your wife enough to put her ahead of some ho at the office. You put yourself above your wife and family. You put OW above your wife and family. That is your wife's truth. that she gave all she had to give and you took it and gave it to someone else.

You must recognize the full impact this has on her. It will help you move away from the fog. Yes, this soon after NC you are still likely fogged up. Your thoughts will clear as you get further out and as you truly grasp how deep this goes. 

Do you realize that this is a marathon? This will not go away in a month or two or six. This took 3 yrs to dig into, it may take twice that long to dig out. This is a long haul and has only JUST begun. R is impossible w/o honesty and remorse. And then and only then can the BS even consider opening themselves enough to let you prove yourself. 

Another question: Do you know what , inside you, allowed you this weakness? Are your boundaries weak in other areas of your life? Is this something you've always had issue with?

Time alone, will not heal this. It takes time, effort and committment and luck and the grace of your BS. It also takes sympathy and compassion. Something you are out of practice on.

In no way am I trying to bring you down. I have been where your wife is. My H had a year long EA with a coworker. He had to leave his job to get NC. So you got lucky there. But her absence is not enough. You much check back into your marriage. That wont completely happen over night but slowly as a process. The further from NC the more checked in you're likely to become. 

Remember as well, when youre feeling sorry for yourself(and yes its hard for you too. No doubt about it) your wife is miserable and heartbroken. You are not the man she thought you were. She is living with a stranger. Everything she thought she had in you she now questions. Its your job to prove all is not lost. Here is a good start toward that. Read it. Then put it somewhere and read it again in a few days. As your fog lifts this will really sink in.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40052-understanding-pain.html


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LTS - I'll grant that you at least know how to talk the talk - you clearly understand what you need to do. The question is are you, will you, can you do it? You've got a lot of work to do. Work to help your wife, work to help you, work to understand how you got your head so far up your ass. 

FWIW I've been where YOU are. I understand the road you're on, the pain and the confusion. The only way through this is straight ahead, no side steps, no detours. You have to own your actions, embrace them, and come to understand them. Decide with Sun who in your lives should know what you've done, tell them, and then own it. Don't shy away from discussing it - volunteer. Talking through it with Sun is the very best way for you to come to understand it and the very best thing you can do for her - a true win win. You've clearly already done a lot of work - but you're far from done. Example - What CTU means when she says "tell us when it went from attraction to an affair" is when did you turn your back on Sun? There is a moment but you haven't found it yet. For me it was when I agreed to speak on the phone with the OW. My EA escalated extremely quickly and I arrived at the point that I knew I was in over my head. I told the OW via facebook chat that I was going to tell my wife about the relationship. The OW freaked and started begging me not to, telling me my wife would no longer let us talk. The OW finally asked if she could call me - and like an idiot I agreed. That was the moment that I turned my back on my wife - the moment I was "in." There is a moment when you made the decision to be "in." When you chose your AP over your wife. You have to find it, you have to discuss it with Sun. Does the above make sense?

Another thing - I don't know how but if it is the truth that you never had physical contact with the OW you've got to get past that poly somehow. I don't know how you do that, but failing that poly is a huge barrier. It calls everything you say and have said into question. You have got to find a way to reassure Sun and get past that. Of course if that's not the truth, if you did have physical contact with the OW you have got to confess. If you're still holding onto lies you are only fooling yourself if you think you can save this. 

Refresh my memory - how far past Dday are you?


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Two questions:
> 
> - What were your feelings about your W in the three years that you were focused on your OW?
> 
> - How would you have felt if your W had engaged in an affair like yours, over a 3-year period? Did you consider this at all when you were in your A?


While it is hard to synthesize all my feelings for my wife over a three year period in a short post, what I think is most relevant is what she described so well to me: she felt ignored, taken advantage of, and loved like a sibling, not as a lover and the love of my life. I compartmentalized my affair and my marriage and I was too in the fog to see the growing disconnect and the effect it had on my love. My attraction waned as my fantasies took over, which is simply shameful and awful, and I understand how much work I have ahead to rebuild her trust in my attraction to her.

I cannot begin to truly understand how I would feel if the tables were turned. I have tried to recall and "refeel" instances of hurt and rejection by a lover or friend that I have experienced in my life to understand the pain, but they obviously do not approximate the pain she felt and feels to this day. I suppose the insightful post by Beowulf that Canttrustu directed me to would be an accurate description of how I would feel. And the simple answer to your last question is that I did not consider the consequences of my actions as I was acting them out. I really did not understand the extent to which I was engaging in an affair (I was unfamiliar with the term "emotional affair"), and in those instances where I knew what I was doing was wrong, I did not consider the incredible pain it would cause if discovered.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

canttrustu said:


> Thank you for answering my questions. I will likely have more as we go through. The more open and honest you are the faster your healing and your wifes. Take it from me, someone who's H had a very difficult time with coming out with the whole truth for a long time. The old addage "the truth shall set you free" has much merit in this situation. Use the truth as your bridge to rebuliding your marriage. No matter how hard the truth, its easier for your W than the nicest lie
> 
> 
> . *"I never thought of our love being unequal in some fashion. There is no doubt that if I loved her the way she deserved to be loved, the way she loved me, I would not have had an affair"*.
> ...


Thank you for directing me to that post "understanding the pain". I have read it twice now, and it resonates. My wife has expressed many of the same sentiments to me (maybe not quite so graphically!), and I can see in her eyes when she looks at me as if I am a person wholly unknown to her, or the murderer of the man she loved. The challenge now is to re-establish our deep love when we have been so transformed and traumatized and are not the people we were before. I know that I must work to regain her love and trust, and, yes, I know that this is only the beginning of a long journey. And I know that true honesty and remorse are essential. She has given me the gift of the opportunity to reclaim our marriage, at least for now, and I am grateful and joyful and hopeful.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

sigma1299 said:


> LTS - I'll grant that you at least know how to talk the talk - you clearly understand what you need to do. The question is are you, will you, can you do it? You've got a lot of work to do. Work to help your wife, work to help you, work to understand how you got your head so far up your ass.
> 
> FWIW I've been where YOU are. I understand the road you're on, the pain and the confusion. The only way through this is straight ahead, no side steps, no detours. You have to own your actions, embrace them, and come to understand them. Decide with Sun who in your lives should know what you've done, tell them, and then own it. Don't shy away from discussing it - volunteer. Talking through it with Sun is the very best way for you to come to understand it and the very best thing you can do for her - a true win win. You've clearly already done a lot of work - but you're far from done. Example - What CTU means when she says "tell us when it went from attraction to an affair" is when did you turn your back on Sun? There is a moment but you haven't found it yet. For me it was when I agreed to speak on the phone with the OW. My EA escalated extremely quickly and I arrived at the point that I knew I was in over my head. I told the OW via facebook chat that I was going to tell my wife about the relationship. The OW freaked and started begging me not to, telling me my wife would no longer let us talk. The OW finally asked if she could call me - and like an idiot I agreed. That was the moment that I turned my back on my wife - the moment I was "in." There is a moment when you made the decision to be "in." When you chose your AP over your wife. You have to find it, you have to discuss it with Sun. Does the above make sense?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your insight - it does make sense. To answer your question, our D-Day was a little less than a year ago.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

There are people here who are trying to reconcile after very long-term affairs. There's almost a direct correlation between length of affair and degree of hurt, so the challenge of reconciliation after three years is enormous. Certainly, I can't speak for your W, but I couldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to trust that you were suddenly in love with me again after chasing after another woman for so long. I wouldn't be able to trust that you weren't with me just to keep the family intact, just for duty or sentiment. And the years of betrayal would erode my feelings of love for my H.

Perhaps my own personal feelings don't apply to sun, but I'm not that different from most women. If she is like me, you have a real mountain to climb if you really want her.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Lovesthesun said:


> The challenge now is to re-establish our deep love when we have been so transformed and traumatized and are not the people we were before.


No passive voice allowed.

"The challenge now is to re-establish our deep love when I have so transformed and traumatized us and changed us from the people we were before."


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Looking at another thread has sent me back here to make one more post.

Your A lasted three years and was an EA, you say, with a woman that you were deeply attracted to and spent a lot of time with. The statistical probability that this didn't go physical is infinitesimal and your polygraph results indicated some deception on this score.

Unfortunately for you, you are now faced with proving yourself against a 'when did you stop beating your wife' type of question. How are you going about this?


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LTS - I curious what brings you back after almost a month since your last post and the last activity in your thread??


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

Ok LTS- Here's the score as I see it. You will likely see it 'differently'. 

You have made several posts. Youve been very verbose in them. Here is the trouble as I see it: There arent alot of verbs in your sentences. I see where you talk about what needs to happen but I dont see where you talk about what YOU are doing to fix this. 

You said you came here to gain some insight. To get some help and to help others(which btw youre a long way from being able to do just yet). But you dont gain insight or help others by posting once a month and not really asking any questions. By not saying where you stand NOW. IOW- you use alot of words, yet what have you said????


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

"*What CTU means when she says "tell us when it went from attraction to an affair" is when did you turn your back on Sun? There is a moment but you haven't found it yet. For me it was when I agreed to speak on the phone with the OW. My EA escalated extremely quickly and I arrived at the point that I knew I was in over my head. I told the OW via facebook chat that I was going to tell my wife about the relationship. The OW freaked and started begging me not to, telling me my wife would no longer let us talk. The OW finally asked if she could call me - and like an idiot I agreed. That was the moment that I turned my back on my wife - the moment I was "in." There is a moment when you made the decision to be "in." When you chose your AP over your wife"*

An excellent place to start is by answering the question posed here. And posing some of your own. The WHEN is very important. That moment of No return. You have to put your finger on it. IT is the crux of the A. It is what led you to this. IF you can see the moment this all began, when you ceased being Sun' H and began being AP's OM you will be on the cusp of knowing how and why you allowed this to happen. What inside of you is broken. What need was being filled inside you. So the "point of no return" is indeed pivotal and imperitive to define not just to yourself but aloud.

I cant help but feel as if you are protecting yourself somehow. You are doing damage control. My H did that. Most WS' do that only to later realize that the damage control does as much if not more, damage than the A itself. My H did damage control for at least 6 mos after dday.That damage control has done more damage to my ability to trust him than the entire year of the affair. Why? Bc he ws out of the affair. It was merely to protect himself at MY expense and I knew it and worse yet I knew HE knew it yet he continued.. I saw it as him choosing to protect himself and even her over giving me the answers and the peace I needed to R. Very painful. Very damaging.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> There are people here who are trying to reconcile after very long-term affairs. There's almost a direct correlation between length of affair and degree of hurt, so the challenge of reconciliation after three years is enormous. Certainly, I can't speak for your W, but I couldn't do it. I wouldn't be able to trust that you were suddenly in love with me again after chasing after another woman for so long. I wouldn't be able to trust that you weren't with me just to keep the family intact, just for duty or sentiment. And the years of betrayal would erode my feelings of love for my H.
> 
> Perhaps my own personal feelings don't apply to sun, but I'm not that different from most women. If she is like me, you have a real mountain to climb if you really want her.


I am sorry you feel that way. Your post reinforces what I know: my wife is extraordinary and I am very, very grateful that she is willing to try to reconcile with me. I know I have a huge mountain to climb. I understand that. And I appreciate your SUPPORT as I try to climb it.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> Looking at another thread has sent me back here to make one more post.
> 
> Your A lasted three years and was an EA, you say, with a woman that you were deeply attracted to and spent a lot of time with. The statistical probability that this didn't go physical is infinitesimal and your polygraph results indicated some deception on this score.
> 
> Unfortunately for you, you are now faced with proving yourself against a 'when did you stop beating your wife' type of question. How are you going about this?


My affair did not get physical. Period. And I fully understand the predicament that I am in. The polygraph that I wanted to take to prove the negative has only caused more doubt. What am I doing to address that? How do I prove the negative? I told my wife on the day of the poly that I wanted to take another one, but I know firsthand that they can be inaccurate and the thought of going through that again is terrifying. I will post below some of the things I am trying to do to rebuild trust. If anyone out there is in my position, I would welcome any ideas. By the way, I understand why you and everyone else who reads this post would not believe me, but I appreciate the fact that you do not render a judgment without knowing the truth.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

sigma1299 said:


> LTS - I curious what brings you back after almost a month since your last post and the last activity in your thread??


A combination of avoidance, emotional fatigue, the busyness of life. This is not easy for me. I am not a natural forum poster. I have never done it in any walk of life. I am introverted and private (part of what caused my infidelity in the first place). It is emotionally draining, and I want to direct all my emotional energy towards my wife and into my marriage. Thanks for understanding. You asked about a moment I turned my back on my wife. Three moments come to mind, which I have discussed with my wife. The first time was a road race where I had hoped the other woman would come and watch me and I felt disappointment when she didn't. That was reflective of an emotional turning point, an emotional abandonment of my wife. The second was the first time I fantasized about the other woman. I don't remember when that was, but it was a turning point, a sexualization of the affair in my mind. The third was my first written communication with the other woman where I crossed a line from implied attraction to expressing my lust. That was yet another significant step down the slippery slope and a further abandonment of my wife.


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

canttrustu said:


> Ok LTS- Here's the score as I see it. You will likely see it 'differently'.
> 
> You have made several posts. Youve been very verbose in them. Here is the trouble as I see it: There arent alot of verbs in your sentences. I see where you talk about what needs to happen but I dont see where you talk about what YOU are doing to fix this.
> 
> You said you came here to gain some insight. To get some help and to help others(which btw youre a long way from being able to do just yet). But you dont gain insight or help others by posting once a month and not really asking any questions. By not saying where you stand NOW. IOW- you use alot of words, yet what have you said????


Here is some of what I am doing. I have ceased all contact with the other woman. If contact occurs unavoidably, I immediately call my wife and we work through it together. I have given my wife full access to any form of communication I have, phone, computer, tablet, whatever, whenever, unconditionally. I have changed how I think about and interact with other women. I do not fantasize about other women nor act on those fantasies. I have changed how I act if I see an attractive woman in person or in a photo, I do not allow myself to linger - I move on. I consciously act around other women (and in the company of other men) as if my wife was with me at that moment. I have focused all of my sexual and emotional energy into my wife. I have tried to be a better listener. I have volunteered everything I can remember about the affair, and acknowledged that ones memory is not an either or proposition. Memories can be triggered, and if I remember something from a trigger I share it. I have read two books and one helpful handbook on infidelity and marriage. I have actively participated in ongoing counseling. I have worked on being my sympathetic, more understanding, less defensive. I have prayed with my wife. I have taken a disasterous polygraph. I have tried to do little things to let her know what she means to me, around the house and in our daily lives. I have tried to support her in doing the things that she loves and needs, be it getting together with friends, sports, art. I have engaged her in my calendar, my comings and goings. I check in regularly. I have tried to make her more a part of my work, by sharing my feelings, letting her know what I am working on, who I am dealing with, etc. I have tried to be less private. I showed her an application which had access to all my emails, so she could see them all. I have read over awful emails and listened to awful voicemails. I have worked on the "why" (see below), with my wife. I have posted here, which is not easy for me. I have expressed my love for my wife whenever and how ever I can. I have told my parents, with my wife. I have acknowledged my many failings, without shading them. I have tried to be more mindful of not letting the kids take over our marriage. There is probably more. Not all of this has been my doing, of course. Much of it has been after being repeatedly hit over the head with a 2x4 due to my own stupidity, fear, self-preservation. Much of it has come from learning from others, including most significantly Shirley Glass and Peggy Vaughn. Much of it has come from listening to my wife.

I am sorry that you think I am verbose, that I am not saying anything, that I am doing damage control, that I am protecting myself. We are all different people, notwithstanding the similarities and patterns in affairs and cheaters. And we all "filter everything through a lens composed of a complex interaction of learned, but ever-changing needs, wants, fears, expectations, mindsets, etc., that make up our world view." Vaughn & Vaughn "Recovering From Affairs". I really appreciate anyone out there who has given me a thumbs up on my posts. I appreciate the people who are supporting my marriage, my efforts to reconcile. I appreciate anyone who encourages me, who supports my wife in her healing, who is a friend of our marriage, anyone who has a faith in a better future. It can happen!


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## Lovesthesun (Jan 4, 2013)

Why was I unfaithful? I can only give my own self analysis, which I have discussed with my wife. I have read, and believe to be true, that all infidelities are the result of multiple factors. For me, in no special order, I have low self esteem from not being attractive to women and not getting female attention in those formative years of high school and the 20's. I think this made me vulnerable. I am egotistical and self centered, which made me appreciate flattery. I had weak boundaries with women, in that I would allow myself to feel attracted to them, sometimes leading to fantasizing about them. I compartmentalized my life, being one person at work, or with certain people, and another at home. I rationalized and practiced denial, and I think my job contributed to this. I had a disconnect in my job, which requires me to be, sometimes, someone I am not, which leads to relationalization, compartmentalization and denial. I am vain and struggled with aging and sought refuge in youth. I often got my way as a kid, and I am sure I felt a sense of entitlement. I can be very selfish. My wife and I got caught in a spiral of disconnection stemming in part from the life cycle of our marriage, where kids became a primary focus. I failed to tend and care for my wife and my marriage, doing the work necessary to sustain our connection. I was (am) a poor communicator who is very private by nature, leading to miscommunication and disappointed expectations. Significantly, to me, I was disconnected from God. I was not seeking His will first.

I may be right, in part or in whole, and I might be wrong. This is just what my wife and I can figure out. We are hopeful that our counseling will help with understanding. This is an ugly picture. My wife doesn't want to be with this jerk, and I don't want to be him. But you know what? I can change; my wife can heal; we can build a new marriage. With God all things are possible.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

LTS, I believe things can change if you put in the work... absolutely. My husband and I have been doing that as well. Some may not agree with the following, but since you and Sun are Christians, I think it is fair to say I could post this. You say you were disconnected from God. As a fellow Christian, I can honestly say that THIS opened the door for you. Those other traits you listed were there all along, but when you turned your back on Him, that selfishness and all the other traits were more attractive to you, and were the means to your rationalizations.

You say you are a poor communicator, but that isn't entirely true. You were able to communicate well with the OW. Why was it easier to talk to her than it was to Sun? See, this is something I had to ask myself. Why couldn't I communicate with my husband, but was able to talk to OM? But WHY did you disconnect from God? Was there something that happened to point you down that road? Also, what does Sun say about this? Has she seen changes, REAL changes, in you? And, why is it NOT possible at all to NOT have contact with OW? I think that having ANY contact with her, even if you DO speak with Sun immediately after, is going to hinder any progress. That's like a drug addict saying "I can be around cocaine, but I just won't take any." Eventually, even minimal exposure is going to be more than he (or you) can bear, and he (or you) will give in. And perhaps THIS is one reason why it is hard for Sun to feel confident that things are getting better, for real.

Do you see what I mean? I think that's what some mean when they say "you can talk the talk...but can you walk the walk?" Are you doing EVERYTHING possible to show her that this is what you want, not OW? EVERYTHING, LTS, means even NC. There has to be a way to go complete NC with OW.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I firmly believe that people can change. You sound committed and I wish you well with Sun. From her posts here, she strikes me as a warm, kind-hearted, intelligent, funny woman who deserves to have a man who is devoted only to her. She has told us that she wants you to be that man and we all want her to find some true happiness after the devastation of your A.

You've mentioned that you tend to compartmentalize and if you read here a bit, you will find many mentions of the word. It is often used to explain how an unfaithful spouse can come home to the wife or husband and continue married life as if nothing is amiss. By compartmentalizing, it is said, the WS simply walls off the experiences with the AP from the experiences with the spouse and doesn't address the cognitive dissonance that integrating the two experiences would engender.

Even though I personally think that compartmentalization is an oversimplification of a complex dance that the WS does, let's say for the sake of argument that it is basically descriptive. When you experienced D-Day, was it a breakdown of these compartments? Was it a painful 'aha' moment in which you 'saw' for the first time what you had done to your W, to your M? Was D-Day for you an immediate recognition of your love for your W?

I believe that a BS very much needs to feel that the A was real but not realistic, that when the compartmentalizing was no longer viable, so to speak, that the WS immediately recognized the folly of it, that the WS immediately saw the BS as the obvious, undisputed choice. I think if a BS can see and feel this, it goes a long way toward supporting a commitment to reconcile.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Pay attention to what you're hearing about NC. Again, I've been where you are, I had an EA. I can tell you first hand that ANY contact is disastrous. It's like an instant reset taking both you and Sun right back to DDay in the blink of an eye. Can you reconcile with intermittent contact? As long as you make sure Sun knows everything you do, yes, but it will be immensely more difficult than if she can vaporize from your world. 

CTU has an interesting point, you have yet to ask a question; which begs the question why are you here? This is a help and support forum, everyone here needs/is looking for the benefit of others experience in dealing with issues in their marriage. To be completely straight forward it seems somewhat like you are here only because Sun wanted you to be. That's not necessarily a bad thing, this is out of your comfort zone and being here at her direction is a form of doing the work she needs. 

FWIW I like the things you say. You sound like you own what you did. Only you know if that's true or an act. You have to address some major questions though. Fundamentally we collectively are like Sun, we need some answers and plausible explanations to really buy in to the words you say. We need to understand how you failed that poly so badly. We need to understand how you had ample opportunity to take your EA physical yet you somehow managed to be the one guy who didn't close the deal. 

I understand the difficulty of addressing those. I understand it is fundamentally impossible to prove a negative but this is the bed you made. Whether or not you answer these questions to "us" is immaterial. It isn't going to change our lives one bit, but Sun needs you to answer them. Part of the issue you have is that you talk good, Sun needs to know that it is not your oratory skills but that it is the truth she is buying in to.


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