# mismatched sex drive



## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

My wife and I are mismatched when it comes to sex drive. She is Ok with having it once a week or so, I need at least every other day. We've had this problem since the birth of our first child, who is now 5 years old. 

I've tried everything I can think of including getting pissed off at her, asking her to let me have a girlfriend on the side, romancing her, helping her with the kids more to give her more free time for herself, helping her with chores so she is not too tired, getting her pills to increase her libido, taking her out on dates, etc. We are currently in counseling due to other issues in our relationship. We have been going to counseling for about 4 months now and we've made great progress. However, despite the progress our sexual life (frequency and variety) has not improved much. When we do have sex it is very good for both of us. 

I'm coming to the realization that this is simply a case where one person's sex drive, interest in sex and stamina is far greater than the other persons. I obviously cannot change her, so my question is how to do I cope with this? It is very hard for me to not get angry, resentful, or distant from her when we are not having sex regularly. I feel like without regular sex we are just roommates. So when we don't have it regularly I find it very difficult to show her affection, i.e., hugs and kisses. Still, I know that's important for her, so I do it, but after doing it for 3 days or so, and still no sex I just withdraw because I feel like my needs are not being met. 

I've thought about getting another job to distract me, but that would also limit the time I spend with our kids which I don't want to do. 

Any ideas? Thanks in advanced. 

Background information: we are in our early 30's and have been married for 9 years, both in good health, although she complains about headaches especially at night time.


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

You are a self fulfilling prophesy and do not see it. 

You fake affection or at best force it then after a few days withdrawl destroying everything.

You talk about the relationship improving but obviously it isn't. You are in counciling and it seems you have other issues that might cause the lack of sex.

Asking to have a girlfriend on the side I am sure hasn't helped her at all or your situation. 

I am sure your getting angry just pushes her away more too.

These things don't happen overnight and can not be resolved that way either.

draconis


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 26, 2008)

well us women need to feel wanted loved and we need emotional support, how on earth do you think your wife felt when you said can i have a girlfriend on the side?? 
Ill tell you what she felt ....unloved , not needed , ugly , she probably thinks you only want her for sex !! what ever happened to LOVE??? just hold her and tell her how much you love her now and again im sure your get a better responce.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my post. 

I disagree about your assessment that I "fake affection." Just as most women need to feel connected before they feel like having sex, I think most men need sex to feel a connection. So I'm not "faking" the affection, it just gets more and more difficult to feel connected to her as more days pass without intimacy.

You're right of course about the girlfriend on the side suggestion making things worse. That was a thing of the past however, it's not like I continue to suggest this. 

And yes, my getting angry, resentful, distant pushes her away. That's the catch-22 I'm asking for help with.

Just because two people don't have the same need for sex does not mean there are necessarily issues in the relationship that are causing or contributing to the disparity. I think it's actually a very common disparity in a marriage.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco

As Draconis is saying, you may be missing how much the other issues in the relationship are damping her desire for you. If you tune up the areas that are lacking, things will drastically improve. I have written about it here, if there is one paragraph that relates to you, then I can almost guarantee that you will get improvements once you deal with it.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

humpty dumpty said:


> well us women need to feel wanted loved and we need emotional support, how on earth do you think your wife felt when you said can i have a girlfriend on the side??
> Ill tell you what she felt ....unloved , not needed , ugly , she probably thinks you only want her for sex !! what ever happened to LOVE??? just hold her and tell her how much you love her now and again im sure your get a better responce.


Thanks for replying Humpty.

Oh boy. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. This issue has been occurring for about 5 years. I did not bring up the girlfriend on the side issue immediately nor did I continue to pursue it once I realized what an idiotic idea it was. In fact, had she given the green light, I don't think I would've done it anyway. I was trying to get her to see the gravity of the issue. 

And yes, I tell her how much I love her, etc. And not just when I want sex. I think she knows I lover her. 

I think this is a situation in which her sex drive is not the same as mine. Is there something wrong with her because she's fine with having it once a week or so? Is there something wrong with me because I want it every other day? Couldn't it be that we are just mismatched when it comes to sex drive? Do all couples that have great relationships have sex every other day?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

As I said above, you are looking in the wrong places. I used to be like you. It does not work.


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 26, 2008)

Of course there are times when women dont want to have sex, its not always a top priorty hormones play a lot to do with how much we want to have sex but so does how much we feel valued loved and wanted.
We need to be held without it always leading to sex.
And yes you can be mismatched but that can be over come easily, read marktwain link above.
I wouldnt even call it having sex !! call it making love.
And just for the record ive been married 18 years and we have had weeks with out making love ,but now its daily ,


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

humpty dumpty said:


> I wouldnt even call it having sex !! call it making love.


My wife likes both kinds depending on her mood, and I am happy to provide either.


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 26, 2008)

yes mark i totally agree!!! just depends on the mood  time !! and if the kids are out for the night ha ha


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

humpty dumpty said:


> and if the kids are out for the night ha ha


Yes, then it gets noisy.


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## digimix (Jan 8, 2009)

Duco, I agree with most of what was shared here. There is a deeper problem than sex. It is like having a little headache that goes on for few weeks. It may feel like just another headache but when they put you on the ct scan or xray you are diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. Marriage is much like that. There are many instruments on this aircraft and tuning each and every one is the only way to make this fly. A woman needs to know that she is loved. Do stuff to here and for her with out expectation of the sex payback. That will be something she feels from you. Call her up during the day to let her know that you miss her (even though you just saw her 2 hours ago) buy her something special (even if it is cheap) tell her you were in the moment thinking of her and wanted to do something special for her. Cuddle her kiss her pamper her without expecting. Let her get "hot" for you instead then she will be the one saying "save some energy for tonight, you will need it".


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Duco
> 
> As Draconis is saying, you may be missing how much the other issues in the relationship are damping her desire for you. If you tune up the areas that are lacking, things will drastically improve. I have written about it here, if there is one paragraph that relates to you, then I can almost guarantee that you will get improvements once you deal with it.


Ok, Mark. I read your article. I am definitely a control freak. Not exactly in the ways you mention (I dont have a problem with her going out and doing her own thing) but certainly with other things. And certainly when it comes to sex I've had in the past the mentality of let's identify what's wrong with you and try to fix it. And one of the biggest problems I have is how to deal with the fact that I have very little control when it comes to the sex. I always want it, so she's the one that determines whether it happens or not. She controls the supply which drives me crazy. 

So I understand that the long term solution is I have to address my bossy, controlling behavior. But in the short term, how do I:

1) Deal with the lack of control. Somehow I have to accept that I'm powerless over the sexual portion of this relationship. Since she doesn't seem to need it but every other week or so, it drives me crazy that I'm at her mercy to get my fix which I need every other day. 

2) Deal with not getting sex on a regular basis. (Masturbation does not do it for me and often the desire for sex/intimacy will come back stronger within a few hours.)

3) How do I stop the vicious downward spiral of no intimacy from her, therefore no affection from me, therefore no intimacy from her? I mean, it seems to me like either one of us or both of us will have to force themselves to provide the other partner with what they want for some time before all the built up resentment goes away.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> And just for the record ive been married 18 years and we have had weeks with out making love ,but now its daily



I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but I don't know how your husband was able to manage this. I guess another one of our issues is we don;t have that much in common anymore. Before the kids, we used to have way more time together. Now it seems we only have an hour or two to ourselves after we put the kids to bed. We do have a date night were we have family take the kids but that is only once a week. Ok, so it seems to me (just thinking out loud here) we should maybe do some fun non-sexual stuff together after we put the kids to bed. Just sort of hang out, like friends, almost. (What a concept!!!!)


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## draconis (Oct 3, 2007)

Duco said:


> 3) How do I stop the vicious downward spiral of no intimacy from her, therefore no affection from me, therefore no intimacy from her? I mean, it seems to me like either one of us or both of us will have to force themselves to provide the other partner with what they want for some time before all the built up resentment goes away.


So step up, one of you will have to, and so far she hasn't. Isn't it worth swallowing your pride to get the relationship back to were you are comfortable with it?

draconis


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> Do stuff to here and for her with out expectation of the sex payback.


Ok, Digimix, I hear what you're saying. For me this is way easier said than done. I can do all the things you mentioned. *With out expectation of the sex payback* is the hard part. So much so that I'm considering suggesting to her that we do not have sex for a week/two weeks/a month. My thought process is that it will take sex of the table so to speak. In other words, I'll do these things for her fully knowing that I will not get sex for it, so hopefully the expectation of sex will be removed from my mind. Does that make sense? Any thoughts on this idea?


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> So step up, one of you will have to, and so far she hasn't. Isn't it worth swallowing your pride to get the relationship back to were you are comfortable with it?


Yes, Draconis, but I'm afraid it's a bit more complicated than get over your pride and step up. At least for me it is.


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Mark Twain, 

I read your article, very good food for thought. There should be a permanent link here on the site. I've been at times way too controlling and have learned to chill the **** out and let my wife have some space and individuality. Also I don't let her orgasm more than once, or maybe twice if i'm going away. (she loves it) That has really helped, if she orgasms three or four times she won't need it for another three days. 

And I would never ask her for a girlfriend, that's insane. What if she said: "go ahead", then you are in real trouble!! I did that once years ago and she said no thankfully.

-M


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

martino said:


> And I would never ask her for a girlfriend, that's insane. What if she said: "go ahead", then you are in real trouble!! I did that once years ago and she said no thankfully.
> 
> -M


Yes, it was insane. Thankfully she said no. Since then, we've started going to therapy and things have improved. (Not to say they are all better, just that there been improvement.) 

The problem is sustaining the effort (on both our parts) without the expected payback. And for me, not getting sex on a regular basis will most certainly lead to frustration which will undermine my efforts of focusing on her needs. Does anyone here understand what I'm saying?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> 1) Deal with the lack of control. Somehow I have to accept that I'm powerless over the sexual portion of this relationship. Since she doesn't seem to need it but every other week or so, it drives me crazy that I'm at her mercy to get my fix which I need every other day.


Fortunately for you, this is where you're wrong. You do have power over it. It's just that you have not found the levers of control yet. 



Duco said:


> 2) Deal with not getting sex on a regular basis. (Masturbation does not do it for me and often the desire for sex/intimacy will come back stronger within a few hours.)


 You are already dealing with it. And as you get to be a more sensitive husband, you will be getting more sex, so it won't be a problem.



Duco said:


> 3) How do I stop the vicious downward spiral of no intimacy from her, therefore no affection from me, therefore no intimacy from her? I mean, it seems to me like either one of us or both of us will have to force themselves to provide the other partner with what they want for some time before all the built up resentment goes away.


 Yes. If you know she wants something and you're not giving it to her, you had better open the tap now! Otherwise you are just mirroring her behaviour: She is withholding sex even though she knows you want it.

By the way, what is it that you're withholding?

On my website, there is an article dealing with "romance for men", see if that gives you some clues


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## martino (May 12, 2008)

Your problems are not unique to only you.


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

Duco, i feel your pain, been there and am still there. The thing i am most confused by is, and you said this too, she really enjoys the sex when it occurs. Nobody, including the women on here, have ever been able to answer this question for me when i have asked it....if you enjoy it so much, why not do it more often? it is the ultimate display of affection between two people.

the only answer is yes, you have two different sex drives. it's the same way in my marriage. i settle for once a week at the most, 3 weeks out of the month. i have tried different approaches, didnt really change things. (im not gonna bust ya for the girlfriend comment cause i have thought it many a time).


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> the only answer is yes, you have two different sex drives. it's the same way in my marriage.


I totally disagree. That's like looking in the butter dish and saying: there's no honey in this house.

In general woman have a stronger sexuality than men, but unlike male sexuality it is easily suppressed. Once it is suppressed, you have to know, (or they have to know) how to unlock it.

The male mind and body is much simpler. There is only really testosterone to worry about. In the female, testosterone is also the driver of libido, but it is balanced by other hormones who's levels go up and down. Women are also hard-wired to link all sorts of other things to sex. If you don't address those *other* things, you may as well sing for your supper!


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## okeydokie (Sep 10, 2008)

MarkTwain said:


> I totally disagree. That's like looking in the butter dish and saying: there's no honey in this house.
> 
> In general woman have a stronger sexuality than men, but unlike male sexuality it is easily suppressed. Once it is suppressed, you have to know, (or they have to know) how to unlock it.
> 
> The male mind and body is much simpler. There is only really testosterone to worry about. In the female, testosterone is also the driver of libido, but it is balanced by other hormones who's levels go up and down. Women are also hard-wired to link all sorts of other things to sex. If you don't address those *other* things, you may as well sing for your supper!



isnt what you said a fancy way to say that they have two different sex drives????

or you may be saying that if the man completely caters to every need of the woman he might get more? i think thats obvious, but its alot of work and i think thats what the woman wants.
I know i know, its not a contest.
now as a man, if you want more regular sex, than i agree you can kiss their butt (figuratively) at every turn and you might get more. but the question remains, if they enjoy it why not seek it out more? my wife likes chocolate milk, i have seen her run to the store in a driving rainstorm to get chocolate syrup for her milk. she likes sex, but she only wants it occasionally and i know when that is and when that isnt. maybe i should hide her chocolate syrup, demand a ransom.

so the fact is, that if a man wants more sex from his wife, then he needs to do alot of special catering, nuturing of the relationship, go to the mall and hold her purse, send her flowers, leave her notes, hug her and hold her........yes, no question. if your a complete louse of a husband, then you probably wont (and shouldnt) get any lovin. but if your truly a equal partner, but maybe not a complete cassanova, what is the deal?


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

okeydokie said:


> isnt what you said a fancy way to say that they have two different sex drives????


No.




okeydokie said:


> or you may be saying that if the man completely caters to every need of the woman he might get more?
> .
> .
> now as a man, if you want more regular sex, than i agree you can kiss their butt (figuratively) at every turn and you might get more.


No, you will actually get less this way. Women want a firm man that understands and caters to their needs without kissing ass.




okeydokie said:


> my wife likes chocolate milk, i have seen her run to the store in a driving rainstorm to get chocolate syrup for her milk. she likes sex, but she only wants it occasionally and i know when that is and when that isnt.


You see, the chocolate is comfort eating. it also contains phenylalanine which is a mood enhancer and imitates the feeling of being in love. Whereas sex gives you comfort, it's not the first thing she thinks of when she wants comfort. It may well make her feel comfortable afterwards, but it's not on her "comfort now" radar. So if you could find ways to make her feel good or comfortable in a similar way, she will see you as the source of her comfort.



okeydokie said:


> so the fact is, that if a man wants more sex from his wife, then he needs to do alot of special catering, nuturing of the relationship, go to the mall and hold her purse, send her flowers, leave her notes, hug her and hold her........yes, no question.


Yes, this is correct, but what is required differs from woman to woman. Once you find the most important thing, you don't have to do that much. For instance, I have discovered that my wife (who loves hot drinks) is really touched if I make her a hot cup of tea the minute she comes in the door, especially if she has been on foot, and it is cold outside. It takes me 3 minutes...

On a not-doing-negative-things note, I have found that if she messes something up, and I tease her about it, she really despises me - I know this because she will bring it up hours or even days later. She hates to look foolish. It took me a while to catch on to that one. the trouble is I like to joke about things - no harm meant, but it does not go down well if the subject of my fun is her 



okeydokie said:


> but if your truly a equal partner, but maybe not a complete cassanova, what is the deal?


Now you're speaking in code here - just like a woman! State what you mean, then I can answer.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

Ok people, I have a couple of breakthroughs to report. 

1. Yesterday we went out to dinner. And we started talking about us and intimacy. And for some reason, she opened up and pretty much said exactly what Mark Twain wrote in his article. She said sometimes she did not feel she desired me because of some of the things I've said and done in the past. (And yes, one of those things is my suggestion that she let me have a girl on the side.) I found this very odd because we have discussed the sex issue on other occasions in a non-confrontational manner, and her response has been that sometimes she's not in the mood due to being tired, hormones, not feeling well. She's even said you have a higher sex drive than me. But this time, she was really honest and said that at times she doesn't desire me due to my past behavior/attitude.

So it appears even thought I've apologized for my past behaviors and attitudes and made changes, at times the resentment still bubbles up in her. Either that or maybe I do or say things that remind her of the past. One present behavior she mentioned as a turn off is when I act disappointed/angry when I don’t get sex as often as I'd like it. 

2. I decided beforehand that I would not have sex last night, even if she wanted it. I did this for three reasons, a) to help me regain a sense of control, and b) so that if she ended up not wanting it I would not be disappointed, and c) to eliminate the idea of it from my mind so that I would be able to focus on her needs. 

So after putting the kids to bed, we just lay in bed talking and kissing. And that's all we did. Which made me realize that we never do that. If we spend any considerable amount of time, i.e., about 5 minutes or so kissing then we end up having sex. I think she was very happy that we just kissed and cuddled and talked. 

So those are my two breakthroughs. I thank everyone who has read and responded. I will now catch up on the latest replies.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> I totally disagree. That's like looking in the butter dish and saying: there's no honey in this house.


I'd like to suggest a third theory: Both you and okaydokay are correct. Maybe she does not have the same sex drive I do, and will never want it every day. But as she admitted to me yesterday, there are also resentments that are keeping her from seeing me as desirable.

That's not too bad of a scenario in my mind, cause I can work on my end to maker myself more desirable in her eyes. I figure I'd still get more sex than I do now and it will no doubt improve the relationship.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> I'd like to suggest a third theory: Both you and okaydokay are correct. Maybe she does not have the same sex drive I do, and will never want it every day.


Don't be so sure. Your sex drive may not be as high as you think, and hers is definitely higher that it appears. We have sex most days if we are not too busy. It never used to be that way, but I started practising semen retention, so I can easily manage it. However, up until I was 40, we just had normal sex, and ejaculating 4 times per week was slightly too much for me, in that, I did not really have the hunger for it. 

How long since you had sex every day? I think you would be surprised at how demanding that is for any man over 25. Of course women can easily do it! When we were less busy we were getting it on up to 3 times a day last spring, but it was using up 3-4 hours a day. Without semen retention, I would have been done for the week half way through day 2!

I have noticed that men who aren't getting as much sex as they want complain of having an ultra high sex drive, but when I cross question them, they appear quite normal. Anyway, I am interested to hear about when you last had sex every single day, how it felt, and how old you were.


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Duco said:


> So after putting the kids to bed, we just lay in bed talking and kissing. And that's all we did. Which made me realize that we never do that. If we spend any considerable amount of time, i.e., about 5 minutes or so kissing then we end up having sex. I think she was very happy that we just kissed and cuddled and talked.


I have to say, I've been in your wife's spot before and I this gave me goosebumps to read...that you were able to really talk and then took the next step to keep it all about her for the rest of the night...I think you nailed it with the timing here.

I'll be totally honest, the flowers, helping out, etc. is all great but my first choice would be laying with my husband, cuddling, talking...that's what makes me feel loved and close to him and in turn what makes me want to have sex with him.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> Anyway, I am interested to hear about when you last had sex every single day, how it felt, and how old you were.


I'm 33. The last time I had sex every single day was about three weeks ago, and it only went on for 4 days in a row. (On the 5th day she had a headache, or so she said. On the 6th day she was too tired.) I felt fine, although I agree with you that I wasn't as hungry for it as I am when I haven't had it for a week.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

swedish said:


> I'll be totally honest, the flowers, helping out, etc. is all great but my first choice would be laying with my husband, cuddling, talking...that's what makes me feel loved and close to him and in turn what makes me want to have sex with him.


She loved it Swedish! Now, here's the funny part. I don't recall her ever telling me she wanted to just kiss, cuddle and talk. Had she suggested I would've gladly obliged her. It's almost like she's not consciously aware of her needs/hot buttons, or she can;t/won't articulate them to me.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> It's almost like she's not consciously aware of her needs/hot buttons,


Wrong!



Duco said:


> or she can;t/won't articulate them to me.


Right!

If you read through all the old threads on this site, you will see that women are writing about this all day long: "Why can't he cuddle me without it having to always lead to sex?"


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> If you read through all the old threads on this site, you will see that women are writing about this all day long: "Why can't he cuddle me without it having to always lead to sex?"


True, but not all women are the same. Like I've said before, my wife and I have discussed the sex issue (for lack of better words) in a non-confrontational way with our therapist. And what she came back with was: help me more with the kids, help me more with the chores, reassure me that I'm the only one for you, call me on your lunch break just to see how I'm doing, hug me frequently, which I've been doing. 

Maybe she just thinks if I love her I ought to know??


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> Maybe she just thinks if I love her I ought to know??


There is that element for sure, but cuddling her without it having to lead to sex shows her that you are giving her something without taking anything. The funny thing is, that once your mindset has changed, cuddling will lead to sex.

One question: how come you had sex every day 3 weeks ago? What brought that on?


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Duco said:


> or she can;t/won't articulate them to me.


After reading 'The 5 Love Languages' I do believe different people respond differently to what makes them feel loved. However, there has to be some connection between women in general and chick flicks, romance novels that capture the attention of women much moreso than men. I don't get into romance novels, but love chick-flicks (epecially if Kevin Costner is the leading man  ) because they aren't focused on sex, but on the romancing of a woman and the man usually looks at the woman like he is over the top about who she is...hangs on her every word, feels her every pain, looks into her eyes and melts, etc. and that's the idea in my head of what would make me feel totally loved.

It can make you view your own marriage and think 'why should I have to tell him how to love me? shouldn't he just want to do these things if he really loves me deeply? and if i do tell him, will he just be going through the motions so he can get more sex?' Please don't kill the messenger here, I do get that the real world doesn't always work that way and did finally open up with these same things with my husband on what he said/did that made me feel that he could take it or leave it as far as our marriage was concerned...and once he heard me, he stepped right up and never looked back (and it helps he has those Kevin Costner eyes  )


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> There is that element for sure, but cuddling her without it having to lead to sex shows her that you are giving her something without taking anything. The funny thing is, that once your mindset has changed, cuddling will lead to sex.
> 
> One question: how come you had sex every day 3 weeks ago? What brought that on?


That was as a result of the marriage counseling. The therapist suggested we make a caring behavior list for each other. So her list consisted of the things she wanted me to do which would make her feel loved. My list consisted of the things I wanted her to do. One of the things on my list was sex at least 5 times a week. This is what led me to think that maybe it's just a drive mismatch. Cause I think she did try. But it just seems like it's a struggle for her. And yet, when we do it, she enjoys it. She agrees that it brings us closer together, etc. Now if we don't do it for say, 5 or 6 days then I notice she's hungry for it. She'll start throwing out innuendos, or she'll kiss me passionately, or brush herself against me.

Here's another example. Oprah had a webcast on her site with a sex therapist. People around the country could call in with their sex questions, concerns, etc. I thought it would be great for us to watch it together. I suggested it to her, and she said Ok, but the day that it was going to take place she simply went to sleep. I ended up watching it alone. When I brought it up the next day she said she simply forgot. My point is, she doesn't seem to have the same interest in sex that I do. I'm constantly trying to read up on it, to learn something new, to improve my skills, to vary the routine, etc. She just doesn;t seem all that interested in learning about it, variety, new experiences, etc.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> My point is, she doesn't seem to have the same interest in sex that I do. I'm constantly trying to read up on it, to learn something new, to improve my skills, to vary the routine, etc. She just doesn;t seem all that interested in learning about it, variety, new experiences, etc.


That may never shift much, but she may well be happy for you to initiate a lot more, even if you still have to do all the work and research. There are glorious exceptions, but in general women do not attack the subject in quite the same way as men, especially when the novelty wears off after late teens, early 20s.

My wife has got so used to regular sex that if I don't ask for it for 2 days, she initiates - which is something fairly new for us. I haven't got the discipline to go without for long, but a few weeks ago, I was feeling quite content, and we did not do it for 2 or 3 days, and she got slightly jumpy - like something was wrong! Ohhhh the power 

I've got a thread on here where I touch on the subject: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-term-success-marriage/3010-20-years-august-married-18-years.html


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

swedish said:


> It can make you view your own marriage and think 'why should I have to tell him how to love me? shouldn't he just want to do these things if he really loves me deeply? and if i do tell him, will he just be going through the motions so he can get more sex?'


Yes, I see what you mean... At this point that doesn't seem all that bad to me. I'll just have to experiment a bit to find out what her hot buttons are. 

I guess I thought if she wanted me to do something she would let me know. And indeed, she did give me a list. But she either skipped some things on purpose or maybe it's been so long since she got them that she didn't recall them. Whatever the case may be, now I know I have some investigating/experimenting to do.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> My wife has got so used to regular sex that if I don't ask for it for 2 days, she initiates - which is something fairly new for us. I haven't got the discipline to go without for long, but a few weeks ago, I was feeling quite content, and we did not do it for 2 or 3 days, and she got slightly jumpy - like something was wrong! Ohhhh the power


Hate to be the goal orientated male that I am, but how long did that take?

I'll take a look at the link in few minutes.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> I'll just have to experiment a bit to find out what her hot buttons are.
> .
> .
> Whatever the case may be, now I know I have some investigating/experimenting to do.


You are bang on target. Romance requirements you can just about squeeze out of them, but most women would rather die than tell you about their sexual "hot buttons".

A guy on another forum taught me a technique he calls SONAR, it's in this old thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/12557-post52.html. As it happens, I was explaining it to a woman who's hubby was not interested in sex, but it later turned out that he was having an affair! But generally, this is a technique for men to use on women.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> Hate to be the goal orientated male that I am, but how long did that take?


Only 18 years or so  But if I had known back then what I know now... it could have been done in 3 months. In fact, I would not have let the rot set in, so there never would have been the dullness we had.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> I found something someone else had written, that explained my frustration perfectly, without the emotion that it had whenever I tried to explain it. I gave it to her to read. She suddenly became a lot more interested in sex - it was like an explosion. It turned out that her libido was perhaps even as high as mine, but she had been keeping it under wraps.


Ok, so what was it she read?????


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

It was a long long thread, but the gist of it was, that me and another guy were complaining, but the "SONAR guy" (mentioned above) kept banging on about how women love cheeky flirty fun, and we guys get heavy and serious when we don't get enough sex, and women want bouncy flirty fun.

And when my wife read it, she started saying "yes,*yes*,*yes*". Geeeez He is a smoothie 

It was most bizarre though, I did nothing much different, it just seemed that reading it caused her to become wild. Maybe it was the validation. This guy understood women, and I didn't.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> It was a long long thread, but the gist of it was, that me and another guy were complaining, but the "SONAR guy" (mentioned above) kept banging on about how women love cheeky flirty fun, and we guys get heavy and serious when we don't get enough sex, and women want bouncy flirty fun.


Very interesting, cause she mentioned something similar to that yesterday. She said it was a turnoff for her when I got heavy and serious when I didn't get sex. Yet I'm sure she doesn't want me to not want it either. I'm sure she wants me to the bouncy flirty fun thing.

As far as the SONAR thing let me make sure I understand what you're saying. You're saying that she will probably not tell me her sexual hot buttons if I ask her directly. But if I maybe drop a hint, perhaps jokingly? and wait she'll reply to those things that strike a nerve. Am I correct?

Can you give an example of how a husband could use this technique? The example in the link is of a wife using it on her husband. Thanks!


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> women want bouncy flirty fun.


Also, I don't know that I can do that and then NOT have sex. If I spend the entire day doing bouncy, flirty, fun with her and then we end up not having sex I will be very frustrated. It seems I can either focus on sex or focus on something else altogether. I don't know that I can separate bouncy, flirty, fun from sex. Am I explaining myself properly?

For example, last night after dinner we stopped by a bookstore just to browse a bit. I had already resolved not to have sex. She stopped by the Sexuality section and spent quite a few minutes browsing through the books. A part of me wanted to join her, but I knew if I did it would be too hard (no pun intended) for me to NOT have sex later on. So I purposely stayed away from those books. 
*
Does anyone know how I can channel my sexual energy away from sex and towards other things???*


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> Can you give an example of how a husband could use this technique? The example in the link is of a wife using it on her husband. Thanks!


During the day, just before you leave the house, you say something sexy but shocking, like: "I'm going to spank your ass later" Then you leave - go out, go to work, go mow the lawn. Let it percolate. If she seems hot and flustered later, you know you scored a direct hit!


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## humpty dumpty (Nov 26, 2008)

wow if my hubbie said that to me !!! id be phoning him and saying when are you home !!!!!


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> it is best to mumble things in her ear during sex ,while the "truth probe" is inserted!


So you're saying, while we're having sex, drop a hint or say something which she may or may not like, and then listen for signs of arousal????
*
I'd like to hear feedback on some of the women on this. It sounds dangerous.*


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> During the day, just before you leave the house, you say something sexy but shocking, like: "I'm going to spank your ass later" Then you leave - go out, go to work, go mow the lawn. Let it percolate. If she seems hot and flustered later, you know you scored a direct hit!


Ok, I can understand that. 



MarkTwain said:


> The other way is during intercourse when she is very turned on - she will be in an altered state of conciousness. If you don't break the spell by talking for too long, or too loud, you can actually ask her questions, or make suggestions or do things, and listen to her breathing. Never ever, bring up anything revealed during this time in ordinary conversation - she will pretend it did not happen and she will mark you down in her score book, as a jerk.


Sorry, I'm still a bit skeptical about this..... If you say something she's into it would work, but if you say something she's not into then I think you'd be in trouble....


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

...


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Perhaps I went too far


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## swedish (Mar 6, 2008)

Duco said:


> *
> I'd like to hear feedback on some of the women on this. It sounds dangerous.*


This is interesting. I think it varies depending on the woman, how comfortable she is with sex in general, and what turns her on. 

I think I have 'evolved' over time in this area and for many years was very conservative, vanilla. Thing is, I enjoyed sex as it was. I also don't look at an attractive man on the street and think anything other than 'hmmm, he's an attractive man' I don't wonder what he'd look like naked or wonder what it would be like to sleep with him. It's just not something I think about. I don't know if I'm a typical woman or not, but I would imagine since lingerie, porn and the like is directed toward men that there is not as much a market here for women.

Also, having grown up believing that sexual thoughts and being 'wild' is wrong , I never looked into changing what goes on in the bedroom because I might either feel trashy afterward or he might think I am or more likely he would say something that I wouldn't be comfortable with and then I would feel I wasn't enough for him.

For me, the change happened in steps, strating with us becoming closer and opening up to one another about things other than sex. I would read Cosmo and ask him about things I read 'would that turn you on, etc?' He was pretty open about letting me know in that setting because I was asking and it also gave me the confidence to think..hey, i'll try this or that and see how it goes. We also bought some sex board games which are question/answer and interactive so we learned some things about each other that way...things that were hot vs. things we felt stupid doing...and sometimes the very thing one of us would find hot the other would not feel comfortable with.

We never engaged in 'dirty talk' and one night when we were laying in bed talking, I mentioned some ditz on tv that was talking about how she had names for her breasts...and then I said I decided to name mine too (my intention was to get a laugh) and said this one is 'f%^& me' and this one is 'hard'...this totally floored him because he never heard me talk like that ... anyway he had a totally different reaction! It also opened the door a bit on what he could try...like, hmmm maybe she's not as uptight as I thought


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> The other way is during intercourse when she is very turned on - she will be in an altered state of conciousness. If you don't break the spell by talking for too long, or too loud, you can actually ask her questions, or make suggestions or do things, and listen to her breathing. Never ever, bring up anything revealed during this time in ordinary conversation - she will pretend it did not happen and she will mark you down in her score book, as a jerk.


Actually this doesn't sound so crazy after all. I've asked her questions about things I know turn her on, thereby turning her on even more. Perhaps the risk can be mitigated by sending out the first "ping" during the day, then following up with a second "ping" during intercourse only if she responds to the first "ping."


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

swedish said:


> Also, having grown up believing that sexual thoughts and being 'wild' is wrong , I never looked into changing what goes on in the bedroom because I might either feel trashy afterward or he might think I am or more likely he would say something that I wouldn't be comfortable with and then I would feel I wasn't enough for him.
> 
> For me, the change happened in steps, strating with us becoming closer and opening up to one another about things other than sex. I would read Cosmo and ask him about things I read 'would that turn you on, etc?' He was pretty open about letting me know in that setting because I was asking and it also gave me the confidence to think..hey, i'll try this or that and see how it goes. We also bought some sex board games which are question/answer and interactive so we learned some things about each other that way...things that were hot vs. things we felt stupid doing...and sometimes the very thing one of us would find hot the other would not feel comfortable with.


Thanks for sharing that Swedish. I think I need to work on the foundation of "becoming closer and opening up about things other than sex." 

Using sex board games sounds like a great idea, but that takes me back to the question I asked before which I haven't gotten any replies to: *How do I go about redirecting my sexual energy into other channels?* It's something I've heard mentioned but no one seems to have specifics on how to do this.


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## Flipper (Feb 2, 2009)

Wow I just read the article by MarkTwain and I was impressed. I just posted in the Ladies Lounge soliciting advice, but found it in the article. I always thought it was a lil me and a lil wifey for the cause of our sexual split. I am now thinking it may be a lot of me slowly eating away at her. Its not that I was controlling, demanding, or anything... but all it takes is asking for it over and over again, and saying HER sex drive is to low, and let's see a Doctor to make her feel like this isn't fun anymore. So, do I keep this article to myself and learn, should I have her read it and conclude the conversation with an I'm sorry. Where do I start the recovery process? I know its a long road and I wanna start walking soon.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Flipper-

You did not really say which section of that very long and badly written (but my wife is helping me with a new version) article applied to you.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

Flipper said:


> but all it takes is asking for it over and over again, and saying HER sex drive is to low, and let's see a Doctor to make her feel like this isn't fun anymore.


Yeah, I've made the same mistake.


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## MarkTwain (Aug 1, 2008)

Duco said:


> but that takes me back to the question I asked before which I haven't gotten any replies to: *How do I go about redirecting my sexual energy into other channels?* It's something I've heard mentioned but no one seems to have specifics on how to do this.


I accidentally found that doing an electronics project to a very tight deadline 14 hours per day 7 days a week worked quite well... So getting involved in something really cerebral and stressful will do it. Do not, whatever you do, take up Semen Retention until you are older - you might explode.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

MarkTwain said:


> I accidentally found that doing an electronics project to a very tight deadline 14 hours per day 7 days a week worked quite well... So getting involved in something really cerebral and stressful will do it. Do not, whatever you do, take up Semen Retention until you are older - you might explode.


For a couple of weeks I was working out really hard a the gym and I found that helped. I may have to start that up again.


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## n77 (Jun 23, 2010)

Imust say, excellent thread. 

Duco, did you succeed to improve your situation?
I'm interested because I'm facing the same problem.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Duco said:


> *How do I go about redirecting my sexual energy into other channels?*


 When my sex drive went up, I wanted the answer to this also, but found I am very very weak in this area , and not very disciplined cause that was ALL I could think about- literally. My outlet was these message boards & just hearing others experiences - while my signicant other was not home. And learning all I could do to arouse my husband-much more often than I cared about before. I think that is MUCH easier for us women to do than the men arousing their wives though , so I feel for you. I accually started feeling bad and relating to countless men on here. 

The name of your thread makes me think of this wonderful book I bought during that time. 
Amazon.com: When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life (9781569242711): Sandra Pertot: Books

It helped me see what kind of Libito type I was and what my husband was, which helped me understand him better and myself better. This books helps you see when Sex Drive issues can be the destruction of a marraige- if the difference is indeed something that can not be reconciled. If your wife is willing to go through the questions- with you -it could open up a great deal of communication between the 2 of you in this area, to see how the other can accomondate , or if you are misunderstanding somehow, or what is a Deal Breaker in the marraige. 

Highly recommend !

I can honestly say I have been on both sides of this issue, being a wife who didn't need sex more than once a week to becoming very highly sexual -wanting it at least every day, and unfortunate to say, until my sex drive went up, I seriously did NOT understand how my husband was feeling. So I hope your wife is open minded, very caring and loves you very much & you are an excellent commincator to help her understand how you feel and what you need. It is indeed a Need.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

n77,

I've had mixed results. On the one hand, I have improved A LOT as a husband. (I had a lot to improve on.) I help out way more around the house, I spend more time with the kids, I tell her how much I love her and how much she means to me, etc. And I'm glad I've made those changes because it has made me a better husband, father, and human being. 

Our relationship has also improved. Not to say that it's all good now, but it has improved. 

Based on my experience, I feel like libido is one of those things that is controlled mostly by genetics (or something else that is not at our control). There may be things you can do to improve it, there may be external forces that can suppress it (like problems in the relationship), but there seems to be a "natural set point" for each person. And while they may be able to move a notch or two from that set point depending upon external factors or effort to change, the tendency is to return to that natural set point. 

So we've had a couple of weeks when my wife has been more in the mood than usual, but the bottom line is, she seems to have a set point for her libido and I don't think either she or I can change that. It seems her libido sex point is set at 5 and mine is set at 8. Problems in the relationship may suppress her libido so that it appears to be a 3 or 4. But even if there are no problems in the relationship, her libido doesn't go up to 8 and stay there. Occasionally she's had a week were it seems to me like she's at 8. But this is only a one week spike and the next weeks she goes back to 5 or 6. 

The same goes for me. I can immerse myself in some project or activity or sport for a few weeks and suppress my libido to 5 or 6. But it's like fighting gravity. Eventually my libido goes back to 8 and I'm wondering how the heck I lost control again. I don't think everybody's libido is set at the same point. Some people are just naturally more horny than others, just like some people have more appetite than others.


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## bella09 (Jul 5, 2010)

Not sure if you're still seeking advice, but maybe try not being so sweet and cuddly all the time and have her desire you for a change...that's what you want. If she's not in the mood, go jerk off...I know it's not the same, but maybe will help with your anger and control issues and calm you a bit. She can't control when you jerk off, right? What are the issues that she considers to be major in your relationship?


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

> have her desire you for a change...that's what you want.


Hi Bella, when I have been able to successfully suppress or sublimate my drive she has chased me and it was very nice. I'm starting to think I'm not busy enough.... Maybe if I had less free time it'd be easier to not think about sex. And maybe if I made myself less available, she'd chase me more. 

Also, it helps when I'm physically exhausted at the end of the day. Easier for me to fall asleep without thinking about sex. Unfortunately I have a desk job. Working out helps, but it has to be extreme. I have to be so tired at the end of the day, that all I want to do is sleep.



> If she's not in the mood, go jerk off...I know it's not the same, but maybe will help with your anger and control issues and calm you a bit.


This doesn't work as well as one would think. First, as you mentioned, it's not the same. I have a hard time not feeling resentful at her as I'm jerking off, because I don't want to be jerking off, I want to be with her. It's not just the physical release I want, I want the intimacy, the connection with her. Second, jerking off doesn't scratch the itch in quite the same way. It's like eating fish when you're craving steak. At the end of the meal your stomach might be full, but you're mind is still thinking about that steak you've been craving. If it's early in the day and I jerk off, the desire to be with her tends to come back even stronger. If it's at night, I can fall asleep, but again, the desire to be with her tends to be just as stronger or stronger the next day.

As far as her major issues in the relationship, as I mentioned in my original post, I didn't help out enough around the house, I didn't help out enough with the kids, I brought up the idea of me getting a girlfriend since she didn't seem very interested in sex. (I know, it sounds moronic in hindsight, but when I brought it up I was just looking for a suitable compromise.) Anyway, these were the issues she voiced. I believe I have addressed these issues.

I think there is another issue, which she did not voice. Maybe it's me projecting but I have the feeling we're drifting apart from each other. When we first married we were both fundamentalist Christians. When we had our first kid I re-evaluated my beliefs and realized I didn't really believe most of my beliefs. This hurt her a lot. I brought this up during the counseling, but she claimed she was over the anger and hurt. I don't believe her. I think it still affects her way more than she cares to admit.

On my side, I feel like after we had our first kid she changed. Whereas before she was sexually adventurous and somewhat open-minded, after the kids she became more prudish. It's almost like she went from the fun, flirty, adventurous, try-anything-out-once girl to a proper old lady.

Anyway, enough rambling from me.


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## Duco (Jan 29, 2009)

I'll have to check out that book SimplyAmorous. I wonder if the gap between us to big to bridge. Sometimes I feel like either I have to bend myself out of shape to please her or she has to bend herself out of shape to please me.


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## kevsand718 (Jun 3, 2010)

I just wanted to chime in and say this was a great string to read. My wife and I have mismatched sex drives. I am the oversexed one and she would be fine if we were never sexually intimate. I kinda knew this before we were married but I thought things might change and it wasn't a big concern for me as she has many other great qualities. Things did change a tiny bit once we got married. She was very playful and on a couple occasions just initiated out of the blue which was great. Once the kids started that all went away. We now have 4 kids. We recently had a talk about sex in our marriage. She came out and said that she just doesn't have the drive or desire that i have. She has the desire on occasion which may be 1 once a month or longer. That's a tough pill to swallow. She is great though and was willing to try herbal pills or anything else to increase her desire / drive. Of course the pills did not have any effect. We agreed on a day once a week but I wasn't big on that cause everytime that day rolled around I know it was in both our minds what was going to happen that night whether we were really in the mood or not and I didn't think that was fair. So now I'm just waiting till she is ready. 

What's hard for me is that it seems like she just doesn't desire / want me in a sexual way. She says that's not true but instead she just doesn't think like that. It's tough for me to understand though since she has before we were married. for example I work with all woman and if they see a guy they think is "hot" they say all kinds of things they like about him or would do to him. It's that kind of thoughts I want my wife to have about me. I continue to give her the love, support, and anything else she needs from our marriage. She says I am meeting all her needs. I write her love notes, poems, gifts. I am very creative with all of these things and present them in many different ways. We have a date night every week which we go to lunch, dinner and even shopping. Sometimes I wish that with all these things i do with her that she would "want me". I even tried focusing my attention on other things but still giving into her needs when she wants and that didn't work. I guess it is what it is.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Have you ever tried being helpful - nice - fun to be around but cutting WAY BACK on all the "I love you" and cards, poems, etc? 

Because there really are 2 very different reasons women want to have sex:
- Lust (which she has no control over)
- The desire to emotionally bond with you - you to her and her to you

With that said - there is nothing more loving than a W who takes her H to bed because she wants HIM to feel loved. And a good W does this with a kind and giving heart. She doesn't lie there and project the desire for him to "hurry up and finish". 

At least half the time my W does this for me simply to be a great W. Not because she is feeling lust. Just like I do tons of stuff for her because I love to see her smile, hear her laugh, etc. Just like she wants that super close feeling that comes from being intimate even if she isn't feeling all that much lust.

Your W clearly lacks lust but that should NOT be a show stopper by any stretch. The thing is if you were to continue being a helpful, fun partner but STOPPED constantly reassuring her that you love her all the time she might WANT to bond you to her. And she knows the best way to do that.

The trick is how to do this. First - don't suddenly stop everything. That is such a guy move - grossly obvious and will likely just make her angry. Make a plan and cut back steadily over a month. The time you used to take her to dinner - go to the gym and work out. Or do a movie night with your friends. I am NOT suggesting you ignore her - not at all. I am suggesting that you cut way way way back on this never ending stream of romantic gestures since they make you look weak and needy.

I have a simple view of this - if your W wants to treat you like a room mate/platonic friend - let her. Be a good friend but stop giving her this constant reassurance of your romantic love. It is having the opposite effect of what you want. 

And you need to know how to respond when she asks "why have you stopped doing x,y,z?" And you need to give her the same kinds of excuses you get for sex. Don't be angry or cold. Just say you have been really busy. 

Because the REAL issue here is your W lacks the desire to please YOU. She simply doesn't think your needs are important. This isn't about lust - it is about priorities. She is your highest and your happiness is simply not that important to her. 

This also means that when she HINTS you should take her to dinner, buy her a gift, tell her you love her - you need to let those requests fall on the same deaf ears that yours do when you talk about your EMOTIONAL NEEDS not being met via sex. 

Eventually she will directly ask you why you have stopped meeting her "emotional needs" at which point you should simply say that all that "stuff" you used to do was driven by the desire to please her. And that lately you just haven't had that "desire". You love her and are committed - just aren't feeling that special "love" feeling. 

If my marriage had purely been driven by "her" level of lust - it would not be the happy place that it is. Just like if I had "done my own thing whenever I wanted". True love is putting the OTHER persons needs ahead of yours whenever you know something is REALLY important to them.



kevsand718 said:


> I just wanted to chime in and say this was a great string to read. My wife and I have mismatched sex drives. I am the oversexed one and she would be fine if we were never sexually intimate. I kinda knew this before we were married but I thought things might change and it wasn't a big concern for me as she has many other great qualities. Things did change a tiny bit once we got married. She was very playful and on a couple occasions just initiated out of the blue which was great. Once the kids started that all went away. We now have 4 kids. We recently had a talk about sex in our marriage. She came out and said that she just doesn't have the drive or desire that i have. She has the desire on occasion which may be 1 once a month or longer. That's a tough pill to swallow. She is great though and was willing to try herbal pills or anything else to increase her desire / drive. Of course the pills did not have any effect. We agreed on a day once a week but I wasn't big on that cause everytime that day rolled around I know it was in both our minds what was going to happen that night whether we were really in the mood or not and I didn't think that was fair. So now I'm just waiting till she is ready.
> 
> What's hard for me is that it seems like she just doesn't desire / want me in a sexual way. She says that's not true but instead she just doesn't think like that. It's tough for me to understand though since she has before we were married. for example I work with all woman and if they see a guy they think is "hot" they say all kinds of things they like about him or would do to him. It's that kind of thoughts I want my wife to have about me. I continue to give her the love, support, and anything else she needs from our marriage. She says I am meeting all her needs. I write her love notes, poems, gifts. I am very creative with all of these things and present them in many different ways. We have a date night every week which we go to lunch, dinner and even shopping. Sometimes I wish that with all these things i do with her that she would "want me". I even tried focusing my attention on other things but still giving into her needs when she wants and that didn't work. I guess it is what it is.


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## kevsand718 (Jun 3, 2010)

@MEM - I understand what you are saying completely. I have tried to cut back a little. The hard part is that she is constantly saying "I love you", hugging and kissing. I obviously can't reject her for those. I have tried to focus on other projects so that we are not always together and create some space so that she'll miss me and want me near her. I do have to say though that my wife does want to please me but not the way I want to be pleased. You see she will give me hand jobs, foot jobs, whatever else I want to get me off BUT that's just it! It's only to get me off. What I want is to be able to do the same for her as well during this time. That's what she is not interested in. She doesn't have the desire to "get off" as well. She said she is always willing to get me off just so long as it was not everyday. That's great and all but again it's not what i want. I want to see, touch and connect with her on a sexual level not in a one sided way. Does that make sense? Maybe that is my problem and I shouldn't care about whether she wants to "get off" or not and I should just let her get me off and be done with it. I think if i cut too far back it wouldn't be good because my wife lacks the whole communcation in our marriage. We are in counseling and working on that. She's made great progress but i think it's too soon to cut too far back. Hmmmm I just don't know.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Kevs,
I have found that "high quality" love at a lower "quantity" than a W wants works very well. Just like you if my W says ILY I say it back. If she hugs me I absolutely hug her back. 

I would also say that a person does not directly control their arousal level. So a few questions for you:
- Does she like you to kiss her? 
- Does she like when you give her a full body massage?

Did she ever like sex, oral, intercourse etc? If so what do you think changed that? Have you ever tried being dominant with her? Is she really shy/refuse to talk about sex, what she likes?

How old are you two? How fit? 



kevsand718 said:


> @MEM - I understand what you are saying completely. I have tried to cut back a little. The hard part is that she is constantly saying "I love you", hugging and kissing. I obviously can't reject her for those. I have tried to focus on other projects so that we are not always together and create some space so that she'll miss me and want me near her. I do have to say though that my wife does want to please me but not the way I want to be pleased. You see she will give me hand jobs, foot jobs, whatever else I want to get me off BUT that's just it! It's only to get me off. What I want is to be able to do the same for her as well during this time. That's what she is not interested in. She doesn't have the desire to "get off" as well. She said she is always willing to get me off just so long as it was not everyday. That's great and all but again it's not what i want. I want to see, touch and connect with her on a sexual level not in a one sided way. Does that make sense? Maybe that is my problem and I shouldn't care about whether she wants to "get off" or not and I should just let her get me off and be done with it. I think if i cut too far back it wouldn't be good because my wife lacks the whole communcation in our marriage. We are in counseling and working on that. She's made great progress but i think it's too soon to cut too far back. Hmmmm I just don't know.


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## kevsand718 (Jun 3, 2010)

@MEM - Answers to your questions: 

Yes, my wife likes me to kiss her. She kisses me a lot more than she use to. When we lay together she will kiss my forehead, my neck, my shoulder or wherever is near her just out of the blue. I found that if I kiss her more she will do the same in return. If I turn it down a bit she does the same. She said she likes my kisses. I'm okay with that. 

My wife is not into massages. I offer them from time to time but she never takes me up on them. I even got her a Spa gift once and she said the massage was the worst part. She is just not into them. On occasion she'll accept a massage but they usually make her tired and she is ready to sleep. A couple of times they have turned her on and things progress to more but even still she is not into them she says and would prefer I not do them. As much as I like to give them to her I accept that she is not into them. 

She has said she doesn't hate sex but that it is just something she doesn't need. She said she only feels the need once in a great while otherwise she is only doing it for me. I can get her in the mood and she'll roll with it just so long as she wants too. Otherwise if her head isn't into it then nothing I do to please her will work. I haven't tried being dominant with her. We discussed it and she said she's not into that. She I try it anyway? How could I approach that cautiously? She is not shy to talk about sex but it is a tough subject to talk about for some reason. I think it's because she said she is content with what we have been doing and doesn't want any changes for some reason. Whenever I bring up things that would take us to the next level of physical connection she says "why?" and get's very defensive. Then says "I'm sorry I'm not what you want". I drop the conversation at this point.


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## kevsand718 (Jun 3, 2010)

Sorry MEM I left out the last question. We are 33 and 34. I am 6' 1" and weigh 198lbs. I work out and in good shape. My wife is is about 5' 7" and weighs 118 lbs. she is in good shape also. She does have the baby tummy from having 4 kids and she hates that. she wants to lose it and complains about it. I told her fine let's do it if it will make you happy with yourself.


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## soc487 (Jul 22, 2013)

okeydokie said:


> Duco, i feel your pain, been there and am still there. The thing i am most confused by is, and you said this too, she really enjoys the sex when it occurs. Nobody, including the women on here, have ever been able to answer this question for me when i have asked it....if you enjoy it so much, why not do it more often? it is the ultimate display of affection between two people.
> 
> the only answer is yes, you have two different sex drives. it's the same way in my marriage. i settle for once a week at the most, 3 weeks out of the month. i have tried different approaches, didnt really change things. (im not gonna bust ya for the girlfriend comment cause i have thought it many a time).


Once a week? three weeks out of the month! You are a REALLY lucky guy. I get a window of opportunity of once a month, and if I miss that for whatever reason I'm waiting another month, and then another. Probably 4-5 times per year. I'd settle for what you're getting and be able to convince myself I was happy with it.


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## soc487 (Jul 22, 2013)

kevsand718 said:


> ... I continue to give her the love, support, and anything else she needs from our marriage. She says I am meeting all her needs. I write her love notes, poems, gifts. I am very creative with all of these things and present them in many different ways. We have a date night every week which we go to lunch, dinner and even shopping. Sometimes I wish that with all these things i do with her that she would "want me". I even tried focusing my attention on other things but still giving into her needs when she wants and that didn't work. I guess it is what it is.


Basically she is happy and you are not. She wants Y and you are giving it to her. You want X and she is not giving it to you. Moreover, you are prevented from going elsewhere for X because of (morals/vows/love/...) and so she has you exactly where she wants you. She doesn't seem to care about what makes you happy?
I was in that situation. In the end (15 years of trying to solve it - she even refused counselling) I had to give up with the one-sided relationship, feeling unwanted when she was quite happy. I left, and now she's not getting Y anymore, and we're both unhappy.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Ancient thread


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## soc487 (Jul 22, 2013)

MarkTwain said:


> ... cuddling her without it having to lead to sex shows her that you are giving her something without taking anything. The funny thing is, that once your mindset has changed, cuddling will lead to sex.


... except when it doesn't.

See the later post by kevsand718... He does all that (and so did I)

The problem is that when you give something without receiving anything, she just gets happier and happier and still sees no reason to give you anything, because now she's getting everything she needs. I've had many requests for "just a cuddle" that led to sleep, going on for many months with it leading to nothing further. Would I be wrong to start feeling taken for granted?


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