# Finding a new identity as a couple during reconciliation



## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

Anyone else struggling with this? Maybe write a bit about how you were before it went bad, and who you are going to be now? 

I find this difficult because we were so happy before, I really loved who we were as a couple and I guess I'm mourning the loss of that identity.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Emmi said:


> Anyone else struggling with this? Maybe write a bit about how you were before it went bad, and who you are going to be now?
> 
> I find this difficult because we were so happy before, I really loved who we were as a couple and I guess I'm mourning the loss of that identity.


I am not aware of what happened with you.

Can you please elucidate?


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> I am not aware of what happened with you.
> 
> Can you please elucidate?


I didn't write anything specific about my situation because I wanted a general discussion with lots of different peoples experiences.

But since you asked... Me and my husband were/are perfect for each other. We fulfill each other and have fun together. I tend to overthink things and he tends to not always think things through. We are spontaneous, have a lot in common. But at the same time we have two vastly different things we are extremely passionate about. Our main goal is to help each other pursue our dreams and build a life together. We were this "innocent", cute, young couple who never argued and made things happen. 

Then he had his health problems, lost the job of his dream, existential crisis, building up resentment, failed to communicate, pushed me away, got depressed, went on antidepressants, lost all emotions including his love for me, went on a road trip on his own, spent two nights with a girl with the same health issue as him self, cheated physically but with no actual sex and no feelings for her either, came home and wanted a divorce told me everything and was really mean and hurtful for a couple of months. 

He got better and quit his antidepressants and fell back in love with me. We worked hard together through marriage counselling and has his own IC as well. Things got a lot better, we decided to get pregnant, and now my feelings are a bit all over the place.

I feel like we are fake, like our happiness is a charade, like our vows are invalid and I don't know who we are as a couple. We have the best relationship out of every one I know, we communicate better than anyone, so now I can't trust anything, I feel like a complete fraud when giving relationship advice to my sister, and I don't know if I'm happy or miserable. I don't want to be the couple who makes it against the odds, I don't want to be the fighters who can work their way through anything. I want the innocence and the pure happiness and complete trust back. I want to go back to being truly one. 

I miss who we were and I don't know who we are... And why did this show up after I got pregnant, I don't want to blame my emotions on hormones, but I'm triggering worse, doubting more, have lots more mood swings... But I know he is the one I want, and I know he has learned from his seriously bad choices. I just don't know how to accept being so badly hurt by the person closest to me. We both had sh!tty pasts, and had finally reached happily ever after, the promised land... And I can't accept life getting sh!tty again...


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> I want the innocence and the pure happiness and complete trust back. I want to go back to being truly one.



*You are going to have to settle for less and endure some pain for a while.* That does not mean that your life will be miserable it means that you are going to have to learn to live life like many of us have had to do. *The innocence and 100% complete trust is not necessary to have good life and/or a good marriage*. I know you do not want to hear that but the truth is not going away because you do not like it.

You say that your husband learned from his serious bad choices and that is good. Now, if he really wants to be responsible for his actions and if he really loves you then he has some work to do.* He has to be fanatical about making you number one for a very long time.* He is the one that betrayed you so if he is a real man then he will do what he has to do to build you back up. He is also going to be father so I would tell him no more cop-outs. *He is not to live his life just for himself even if he has some bad luck along the way.* Either he steps up to the plate and helps you or you can get over him and build your life in another way. Millions have done that and so can you.

*You need to diligently seek all ways to get better, and then do it! *Married life is very hard and only the serious, diligent, and strong will be a success. I did not make the rules of marriage but I just have observed those rules. I had nothing to do with my wife betraying me but I have a whole lot to do with me becoming more self-sufficient and getting myself better. Bottom line is that you have to take care of you because nobody can do for you as much as you can do for yourself.

*If you both do your part then you can have a good and rich life even though you will have some bad times along the way*. I do not want to be too blunt with you because you are freshly hurt but the bottom line is that this life is no bed of roses but you can make it a good life. *You can survive if you strive and you can have a lot more good times than bad times if you get the right advice then you DO IT!!!
*


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I would suggest couple's counselling.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Emmi said:


> Anyone else struggling with this? Maybe write a bit about how you were before it went bad, and who you are going to be now?
> 
> I find this difficult because we were so happy before, I really loved who we were as a couple and I guess I'm mourning the loss of that identity.


Well sadly you are going to have to admit that that marriage is dead. What you have now is a new marriage with a third party, the affair. Like it or not that will be a part of your marriage from now on. Because of all that, of course you are mourning. Infidelity is like a death. I wish I could tell you different but from everything I have experienced and read that is just the way it is.




Emmi said:


> I want the innocence and the pure happiness and complete trust back..


You will never have the innocence again, especially not with him, you may have happiness, and some form of trust, although some would argue that trusting a cheater is like making a drunk your chauffeur. I know all of this is hard but I believe in clarity. Everything you've written is all common to people who have been cheated on. There is no smoking gun here, just hard, hard work. I wish I could tell you different but I don't want to give you false hope.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> *You are going to have to settle for less and endure some pain for a while.* That does not mean that your life will be miserable it means that you are going to have to learn to live life like many of us have had to do. *The innocence and 100% complete trust is not necessary to have good life and/or a good marriage*. I know you do not want to hear that but the truth is not going away because you do not like it.
> 
> You say that your husband learned from his serious bad choices and that is good. Now, if he really wants to be responsible for his actions and if he really loves you then he has some work to do.* He has to be fanatical about making you number one for a very long time.* He is the one that betrayed you so if he is a real man then he will do what he has to do to build you back up. He is also going to be father so I would tell him no more cop-outs. *He is not to live his life just for himself even if he has some bad luck along the way.* Either he steps up to the plate and helps you or you can get over him and build your life in another way. Millions have done that and so can you.
> 
> ...


Something that is not much said on here but always should be-

or you can move on and have a relationship with someone else who hasn't betrayed you. A relationship without an affair in the middle of it. There is not shame in that. Most people who move on will tell you they are happy. There are threads on here in fact.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> By Sokillme
> ……you can move on and have a relationship with someone else who hasn't betrayed you


My guess is that the OP knows that and has thought of that. By the quote below, the OP seems to want the marriage to get better a so they can stay together.



> Quote of OP
> ... But I know he is the one I want, and I know he has learned from his seriously bad choices. I just don't know how to accept being so badly hurt by the person closest to me


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> I am not aware of what happened with you.
> 
> Can you please elucidate?


Eh?Lucid Data?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Emmi said:


> Then he had his health problems.
> 
> He got better and quit his antidepressants and fell back in love with me. ...


Can this health problem loom large in your future?

Is it psychological, maybe manic depressive? Mental breakdown?

Is alcohol or other drugs a factor?

It sounds like he lost control of himself.

I ask because his "problem" may return...knock the new legs out from your marriage...again.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Mr Blunt said:


> My guess is that the OP knows that and has thought of that. By the quote below, the OP seems to want the marriage to get better a so they can stay together.



I wasn't trying to discount your advice, sorry if it seemed that way. I just think lots of time BS operate out of fear. Helping deal with that fear and letting them feel more comfortable of the options is a good thing.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> Can this health problem loom large in your future?
> 
> Is it psychological, maybe manic depressive? Mental breakdown?
> 
> ...


From her other thread, he has ehlers danlos syndrome.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

I'm sorry you have been hurt by adultery, Emmi. You will never forget what your husband did. There is nothing either of you can do to make it like it never happened. You do need time to heal, but you will not be the same person when you are as healed as you can be...you can end up a better person, or a bitter person. It will take a while for you to sort out what everything means to you (you know what I mean...everything) but in time, you will know.

Your husband made some very bad choices. You now know what he is capable of when he is not doing the best he can do. He did the unthinkable, and now you don't know if you can ever trust him. Don't get in a hurry. Trust once broken takes a long, long time to be rebuilt. It is your husband's job to be trustworthy, patient, consistent, and hang in there through your ups and downs while he earns your trust back....if he ever can. That is for you to decide. Give yourself and him time. It is a maze, but you will get out of it eventually.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Emmi one other thing, you need to have an identity that is not completely tied up in your marriage. It is great that that is a part of your identity but if you make it your whole identity when something goes wrong you are stuck in an a full blown identity crisis like right now.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Emmi one other thing, you need to have an identity that is not completely tied up in your marriage. It is great that that is a part of your identity but if you make it your whole identity when something goes wrong you are stuck in an a full blown identity crisis like right now.


I feel confident in my own identity, and have several things to tie my own identity too, both in my interests and personality. I know who I am and who I want to be. Sure I found that identity in the duration of our marriage, but I am still that person if I didn't have my marriage. 

I am really glad I have found this security in who I am, because that has provided a lot of strength and determination during these tough times. I refuse to let his actions change who I am. 

I don't think of my identity and the identity of our relationship as the same, and it's the latter I'm struggling with. His infidelity was caused by his problems and he was lacking a whole lot of stuff to prevent him from doing what he did, and he is working on those things. We both liked who we are/were as a couple, and I wish we could just hold on to that identity, but somehow it just feels fake...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You can do this! 

Just so long as your husband is with you 100%. 

Some people say that you can never reconcile with a cheater.

This is perhaps based on their experience.

They remind me of the saying "If someone only has a hammer in their toolbox, every screw looks like a nail."
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

sokillme said:


> Well sadly you are going to have to admit that that marriage is dead. What you have now is a new marriage with a third party, the affair. Like it or not that will be a part of your marriage from now on. Because of all that, of course you are mourning. Infidelity is like a death. I wish I could tell you different but from everything I have experienced and read that is just the way it is.


that is what's so hard to accept, our marriage was so good. It's not like it was bad and the infidelity was a result of an unhappy marriage. We want to be one of those couples who come out stronger and better, but we set the bar really high. How can we make our new, post infidelity relationship better than the one before, when the one before was so good? 

I bet it's hard to believe, but it was truly good, his childhood and his past has left him with some deep issues that he is now working through in therapy. But we are still young, in our mid to late twenties, he has never before been provided with the opportunity to work through his emotional problems. I remember early on in our relationship how I wondered how he could have turned out this good, with his family and his past... Now problems from that time has resurfaced, but I have to look at it as an opportunity to work through it and get better...




sokillme said:


> You will never have the innocence again, especially not with him, you may have happiness, and some form of trust, although some would argue that trusting a cheater is like making a drunk your chauffeur. I know all of this is hard but I believe in clarity. Everything you've written is all common to people who have been cheated on. There is no smoking gun here, just hard, hard work. I wish I could tell you different but I don't want to give you false hope.


I get what you are saying, but to me the fact that this guy could cheat is proof to me that anyone can. I believe chances are higher that someone new would cheat on me than that my husband would do it again. He is learning from his mistakes and is confident that he'll never make choices like that again. If I left him I don't think I'd ever be able to trust anyone ever again. He is the one who broke my trust and I think he's the only one who can fix it...


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> You can do this!
> 
> Just so long as your husband is with you 100%.
> 
> ...


Thanks Matt! I'm sure my husband will love that quote! And he is 100% with me, but with a lot on his plate. It's a challenge working on health issues and making up for infidelity at the same time... 

I saw you mentioned marriage counselling, which we have been going to since only a few weeks after he cheated. It has been great and really helpful, but because she was ill our last appointment got cancelled and I think it's been a couple of months since last. That's probably why I feel so distraught lately, luckily we have a new appointment next week


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## TaDor (Dec 20, 2015)

@Emmi : What WAS, will always be that. I agree with others who said similar. While everyday its a little bit better, I am still hurt on a daily basis for the actions of my wayward. The trust she broke with me is the worst.

But I'm going to give us a serious chance, and she seems to be as well. We know we can be stronger. The identity issue doesn't really change... He is still your husband. I had to be hospitalized and the 4th of July meant we haven't been to MC in two weeks. But for you two, its been months? Get back to the MC.

Are you two reading books? Talking?


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Emmi

Your marriage was very good, you were both happy, yet he strayed. That lets you know that you felt the marriage was good, not you both felt the marriage was good. True many things happened to cause a perfect storm, but none of these are an excuse or reason to have an affair. You said he became distant, not in love with you, spent two nights with someone else, then wanted a divorce. 

I thought my wife and I had a good marriage too, but it turns out I was only fooling myself as to what our marriage really was. Our marriage was not good, we were failing, and I own fifty percent of that blame. My wife owns the other fifty percent to our marriage, but she also owns one hundred percent for her affair. I had those rose colored glasses on, saw things foolishly, and then worked on my fifty percent and myself. 
@sokillme is correct in that your marriage died, grieve for it, keep the happy memories you want. However, today you have changed, he has changed, and your fearful that you may not love each after your changes. I think this is a natural fear, but it has to happen, you don't want to keep the old marriage. In fact why would you, look at all the damage that happened? So you need to mourn the loss of your marriage, you also need to mourn the loss of you, as you will also change. 

What you need to do is fix yourself, your spouse fix himself, and try to change and grow together as a couple. If true reconciliation is desired by you it will be very hard work. There are many pitfalls, I've fallen in them, you have to keep pushing forward even when you feel completely defeated. Your marriage is no longer innocent, can you accept that? Your spouse is no longer innocent, can you accept that? Can you get past your spouses affair? Can you accept the affair happened? You need to answer these questions for you. 

I wish you luck in your journey, I am having a journey of my own. What works for me may not work for you, but the best advice I can give you is to take it one day at a time. Breathe, embrace the good moments, communicate about the good and bad, and to be vulnerable, to allow for trust to build again.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think you have rug swept without really dealing with your feelings about his betrayal and rushed back into fixing the marriage and deep down you know things are not well and you have not been true to yourself nor given yourself time to heal. Have you got counselling for youself. You should be honest with yourself and your WH and take some time out to work on yourself and sort out your own head, you cannot work on the marriage if you didnt take the time to heal.

In a marriage that is in trouble, whether due to infidelity, depression, addiction, etc. Starting over often requires a removal of the past baggage, dwelling in the past is futile, you have to start anew.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Emmi said:


> the fact that this guy could cheat is proof to me that anyone can.


The only proof is that *he* can, do not project this onto other people. There are plenty of people who would never cheat. See *him* for what he is, not for what everyone is.

Frankly you are just wrong, cheating happens because of character flaws not because of circumstance because if that were the case anyone in his situation would cheat, and plenty of people don't. You were in his situation to some extent did you ever think of cheating. It is really dangerous for you to avoid seeing your husband for what he is. If you continue to make his affair into something that just happened because he had no control over himself or whatever you will not really reconcile because you are not even dealing with the true issues. You need clarity first and foremost. He has already proven he could hurt you once, you need to be mindful of that.


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## citygirl4344 (Mar 4, 2016)

sokillme said:


> The only proof is that *he* can, do not project this onto other people. There are plenty of people who would never cheat. See *him* for what he is, not for what everyone is.
> 
> Frankly you are just wrong, cheating happens because of character flaws not because of circumstance because if that were the case anyone in his situation would cheat, and plenty of people don't. You were in his situation to some extent did you ever think of cheating. It is really dangerous for you to avoid seeing your husband for what he is. If you continue to make his affair into something that just happened because he had no control over himself or whatever you will not really reconcile because you are not even dealing with the true issues. You need clarity first and foremost. He has already proven he could hurt you once, you need to be mindful of that.




Re read this op

I think you have proven that you need help getting through this and rightly so...I believe you mentioned marriage counseling but are you doing IC as well?
I think that you would benefit from it. Sorting through all these emotions that come from being betrayed (and that's what an affair is) is not something anyone can or should do on their own.

I would stop trying to get what you had before and try to focus on building something stronger and hopefully better. JMO


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Emmi said:


> I believe chances are higher that someone new would cheat on me than that my husband would do it again. He is learning from his mistakes and is confident that he'll never make choices like that again. If I left him I don't think I'd ever be able to trust anyone ever again. He is the one who broke my trust and I think he's the only one who can fix it...


This is exactly how I feel. I am far more confident in my husband than I ever could be about someone new.

BUT: He earned it. It's been 6 1/2 years since he cheated, and it's taken every single day of that for me to get where I am and for him to get where he is. It took months and years of IC and MC, of book work and conscious nurturing. It took acceptance that we had to start over, from scratch. And I don't think you're ready to do that. Until you are, it won't work. What you had before is not reachable ever again. Grieve for it and move on. Get mad at him for what he did - it's his fault, after all. Have you gotten mad at him?

My story is linked in my sig if you care to read it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> This is exactly how I feel. I am far more confident in my husband than I ever could be about someone new.
> 
> BUT: He earned it. It's been 6 1/2 years since he cheated, and it's taken every single day of that for me to get where I am and for him to get where he is. It took months and years of IC and MC, of book work and conscious nurturing. It took acceptance that we had to start over, from scratch. And I don't think you're ready to do that. Until you are, it won't work. What you had before is not reachable ever again. Grieve for it and move on. Get mad at him for what he did - it's his fault, after all. Have you gotten mad at him?
> 
> My story is linked in my sig if you care to read it.



Wow, I have a fundamentally different view of human nature. I believe in cheaters and non-cheaters. People who cheat prove what their nature is. I see them a lot like alcoholics, they can be in recovery but they are still alcoholics.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Wow, I have a fundamentally different view of human nature. I believe in cheaters and non-cheaters. People who cheat prove what their nature is. I see them a lot like alcoholics, they can be in recovery but they are still alcoholics.


Exactly. And like SOME alcoholics, SOME cheaters are actually less likely to do it again because they recognize it and have taken steps to guard against it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> Exactly. And like SOME alcoholics, SOME cheaters are actually less likely to do it again because they recognize it and have taken steps to guard against it.


Um, that is not what I always heard about Alcoholics, I thought they were only one drink away from relapse. Some people will never cheat no matter what.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

sokillme said:


> Um, that is not what I always heard about Alcoholics, I thought they were only one drink away from relapse. Some people will never cheat no matter what.




I can name two alcoholics that changed, father and grandfather. Both were drunks, then both decided enough was enough. However, they both still drank but stopped before becoming drunk. They learned to control their drinking rather then the drinking control them. People can change, I don't think you believe this, but people do change. I'm living proof of change, my father and grandfather changed, it can happen. So someone who cheats may stop just like an alcoholic. Their are many posters here who cheated, they changed, and they have the respect of many other posters. Cheating isn't the defining moment of their life, just as being betrayed won't be my defining moment.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

drifting on said:


> I can name two alcoholics that changed, father and grandfather. Both were drunks, then both decided enough was enough. However, they both still drank but stopped before becoming drunk. They learned to control their drinking rather then the drinking control them. People can change, I don't think you believe this, but people do change. I'm living proof of change, my father and grandfather changed, it can happen. So someone who cheats may stop just like an alcoholic. Their are many posters here who cheated, they changed, and they have the respect of many other posters. Cheating isn't the defining moment of their life, just as being betrayed won't be my defining moment.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry but Cheating is a pretty defining moment. Even if there is full recovery there is damage continues through the remainder of the relationship, and besides that there are very few worse betrayals. Specifically if we are talking marriage. You don't get to eliminate that from the docket. I think you deserve to be forgiving, but it stays on your track record here on earth, because it becomes a part of who you are. 

I DO believe people can change but it is rare. I also believe the damage done by long term affairs are not worth the risk, or the reward. WS don't deserve to be in their marriage anymore. Unfortunately I think most BS are too scared to to leave and subconsciously see themselves as trapped by their circumstances. I think that is really sad because they would have better happier lives if they did. All you have to do is read post on these boards of people 10, 15 years out still dealing with the fallout. It's a shame that divorce from cheaters isn't advocated more. It should be encouraged like shelters for battered woman. By the way I am not an advocate for divorce in most other circumstances. But cheating is abuse. 

Staying with a cheater is a suckers bet. When you read post from the people who have moved on they always say long term they are so much happier. Remember most people are not going to post on a board, especially if they just move on. People who post on a board are people who are in doubt. Because of that the boards get skewed, someone needs to point out that sometimes giving up is really best answer.

Finally alcoholics have a quality in their nature that makes them more of a risk then a non-alcoholics, this is without depute.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

I think the comparison to alchoholics is interesting, and quite fitting. However I think for my husband more like someone who got excessively drunk one night, had a two day hangover and learnt from that experience. And and after this one night of screwing up he learns to control his drinking. This fits the story better than long term abuse by an alcoholic. 

My husband did not have a long term affair, he did not have feelings for her... If he had been through something like this in his teenage years and learned from it I think most people would agree that he could change and learn from it, and not consider it to be a defining moment of who he is as a person.

As soon as my husband came home and told me everything and that he wanted a divorce I looked at my self with critical eyes, and "fixed" my half of the marriage. Because of his delusion that meant doing everything in the house, so he could focus his energy on hobbies and more rewarding stuff. It meant talking less because my voice was annoying, it meant suppressing all my emotional needs and only cuddle when we watched tv together... Gradually he got more back to him self again, and started contributing and meeting my emotional needs, we examined our marriage and worked out that it really was "perfect" and we were both truly happy together up until the moment he lost his job. That's when he started pushing me away, started resenting me and stopped communicating with me. Yes he is 100% responsible for the infidelity, but in our case there is no 50% of the marriage for me to take responsibility for, the only problem in our marriage is his infidelity, the problems within him that allowed him to do that and his dishonesty and his health.

I read your story hope, and wow, I find it amazing that you can recover from all that. i can't imagine how that must have felt for you. Part of me wish we had separated and worked our feelings out by our self, but I can't justify that when we both already know that we want to be together.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

@sokillme, have you read my story at all?


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Unfortunately I think most BS are too scared to to leave and subconsciously see themselves as trapped by their circumstances. I think that is really sad because they would have better happier lives if they did.


Oh come on now... Thats just not fair to say, I would been royally screwed by a divorce from my W and huge impact on the kids, and financial ruin to say the least. Whose to say I would be happier divorced than deciding to R??? I didn't make my decision out of fear, more logic actually and the fact we still love each other.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> @sokillme, have you read my story at all?


Honestly I am afraid it will depress me too much. 

I very rarely see staying with someone who cheats as a happy ending, because I equate cheating to the emotional manifestation of a physical beating (if that makes sense). I would never encourage someone who is being physically beaten by their spouse to stay. Unless you are both cheaters then I think it is better for the rest of us if you stay together. 

I know that sounds harsh, I fear I am coming off as kind of a d_ck, but I mean no disrespect. Honestly I actually couch a lot of what I think because I am afraid I may trigger people. I am harsh enough as it is. But I guess this is just my nature, probably because of my background. 

I love my father very deeply but cheated on almost every woman he was with, I wouldn't want to be married to him. My mother married a verbally abusive husband who was my step-father for a time. This taught me a lot about desperation and especially trying to make the best of a bad situation. I finally convinced my mother to leave after he had given their savings to some woman he met on the internet. She wasn't going to because she was scared of being on her own financial for the first time in her life at 50! Up until that point she had planned to stay, mostly because of the church and because she was afraid. It took me pointing out that she was safer alone then with someone who would just give away their money. Funny thing is in about a year she had a good job and her life was immensely better. Now she is prospering, is quite successful and she will tell you the happiest she has ever been in her life. If she had let fear win she would still be stuck in an unhappy marriage. I see a lot of my mother thinking in the people posting on SI and boards like this. 

With all do respect you think your major problem is solved, I get that you have to think that way. I hope you are right, and in your case you very well may be. However all you have to do is go read SI, there are way to many posts about "8 years out and he just had his second affair." "She contacted her AP again after 10 years." "I wish I had just kicked her to the curve right away and not wasted all these years trying to make this work." "I wasted 20 year of my life on this person I wish I never met them." "15 years and I still have really hard days." Most of the time R seems like settling, not a happy life. 

Also go read a lot of the WS posts. There are a few that I think are truly remorseful but even in that case I think it is really unfair to the BS to have to be stuck with a person who would do this to them. To have to spend the rest of their lives actively shutting down the pain that seeing the WS causes. Most of the WS come off like children, like people with a very strong form of arrested development. Or just plan narcissists. This is whom most WS are. 

I believe cheating is in a persons nature, it is a very serious character flaw, you either have it in you or you don't. Yes some people do change but this is so few and far between that the go to advice should be encouragement to move on. People should be given a safe place where the posters empower them to find the strength to move forward without their WS.

The problem is there is no way for me to actually prove this, all I can do is point to the success stories. If you look there are lots of them. Almost all who leave will say they did the right thing. Not all who stay will.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> Oh come on now... Thats just not fair to say, I would been royally screwed by a divorce from my W and huge impact on the kids, and financial ruin to say the least. Whose to say I would be happier divorced than deciding to R??? I didn't make my decision out of fear, more logic actually and the fact we still love each other.


No amount of money in the world would convince me to stay. Also the impact it has on your kids depends on how your marriage is day to day. My parents divorced, I ended up fine for the most part. Close to both of them, married 12 years. I don't want to say much more. If this is right for you then I wish you good luck. But like I said in the other post, I don't think staying should be the default, leaving should.

Remember if you are happily R then you are the very rare exception. So it's kind of like a lottery winner giving advice on how much sense it makes to play the lottery, actually playing the lottery is a fools bet.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Emmi said:


> As soon as my husband came home and told me everything and that he wanted a divorce I looked at my self with critical eyes, and "fixed" my half of the marriage. Because of his delusion that meant doing everything in the house, so he could focus his energy on hobbies and more rewarding stuff. It meant talking less because my voice was annoying, it meant suppressing all my emotional needs and only cuddle when we watched tv together... Gradually he got more back to him self again, and started contributing and meeting my emotional needs, we examined our marriage and worked out that it really was "perfect" and we were both truly happy together up until the moment he lost his job. That's when he started pushing me away, started resenting me and stopped communicating with me. Yes he is 100% responsible for the infidelity, but in our case there is no 50% of the marriage for me to take responsibility for, the only problem in our marriage is his infidelity, the problems within him that allowed him to do that and his dishonesty and his health.


Where is the balance? What has/is your husband doing to make up for his mistreatment of you and for taking advantage of you when you were broken by his betrayal? Going back to the husband he was before does not make up for anything.
I get the impression that he never put that all out effort into you and you have not had a period of time where you expressed your anger and pain to him and he comforted you and worked to make things better for you. If that's true, this feeling you have is not going to go away.


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## CantBelieveThis (Feb 25, 2014)

sokillme said:


> But like I said in the other post, I don't think staying should be the default, leaving should.


The default should be to do what's right for you, infidelity decisions are highly individualistic and have a myriad of factors at play, but for some reason there tends to insist in making it black white type.

I do however agree upon discovery that the BS should immediately file for D and send a strong message to CS, the final decision whether to continue D or try R can be done later, if complete remorse is shown by CS

If after a long marriage a BS can simply walk away that quick and easily from the CS I really doubt if they really loved each other at all to begin with......it takes a while for the BS to detach from the CS if real deep love was involved, you see it all the time....the BS is conflicted upon discovery and it takes some time to cope with the reality and leave the CS.....
if any BS can just completely detach and walk away from M and CS right upon discovery, like I said, I doubt there was true love involved.
Am not defending anything or anyone, just simply how I see it over and over....


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

CantBelieveThis said:


> The default should be to do what's right for you, infidelity decisions are highly individualistic and have a myriad of factors at play, but for some reason there tends to insist in making it black white type.
> 
> I do however agree upon discovery that the BS should immediately file for D and send a strong message to CS, the final decision whether to continue D or try R can be done later, if complete remorse is shown by CS
> 
> ...


Yes it is individualistic, but I am talking in generalities. I think the evidence points more towards moving on. Also I totally understand that it take time to detach. However your best course of action IS to detach, so you can make a decision without the emotions clouding your judgement. 

Some people can walk away for many reasons. One might be that the safety of the relationship is what holds them to it. Another might be that even love is not worth their self-respect.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

@sokillme, I totally agree with you that the default should be to split up. But I do not agree that the default should be leaving. It should be to kick the cheater out the very same day you find out what they did.

Why would my story depress you? Please, read it. What I did is very atypical, but if more people did what I did I truly believe that WAY less people would be posting the type of depressing story you're talking about.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Hope1964 said:


> @sokillme, have you read my story at all?


OK I read your story. It made me wish we still had stonings. >

I am happy that you found peace though. I hope your husband appreciates what a forgiving wife he has.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

CynthiaDe said:


> Where is the balance? What has/is your husband doing to make up for his mistreatment of you and for taking advantage of you when you were broken by his betrayal? Going back to the husband he was before does not make up for anything.
> I get the impression that he never put that all out effort into you and you have not had a period of time where you expressed your anger and pain to him and he comforted you and worked to make things better for you. If that's true, this feeling you have is not going to go away.


I have expressed my anger and pain, and he does comfort me. He has done more than just go back to how things were, like communicating better, working on himself with a psychologist... Of course there are days when he doesn't have the capacity to really help me feel better, and when those days line up with my bad days with lots of triggers it really sucks... But even then he always steps up, it just sometimes takes him longer to realise that he should do something.

We've had a couple of great days, an opportunity to exhibit some of my art came up very last minute, and he was a great support and really helped me make it happen, but the day before that was really bad, I was triggered really badly by the lyrics to a song he was singing, and it took him way to long to realise what he should do. So since the trigger just continued to grow I started talking about some of the details of his betrayal, which made him feel really bad and he asked me not to talk about that. But when I told him more what he should have done and how he should have reacted he did the right things, it just sucks that I have to train him sort of...

I don't really feel that there is balance, how could there be? But having these really good days right after the one really bad one made me remember how good we are together.


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

Emmi said:


> went on a road trip on his own, spent two nights with a girl with the same health issue as him self, cheated physically but *with no actual sex and no feelings for her either*, came home and wanted a divorce told me everything and was really mean and hurtful for a couple of months.


Maybe you feel empty because deep down you know he's still lying to you. The bolded part is complete and utter bullsh!t. This reeks of trickle truth.

I'd hate to see you spend years in a fake reconciliation. I'd relook at divorce if I were you. If he can't be 100% honest with you then he's not worth keeping.


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## Emmi (Dec 11, 2015)

BetrayedDad said:


> Maybe you feel empty because deep down you know he's still lying to you. The bolded part is complete and utter bullsh!t. This reeks of trickle truth.
> 
> I'd hate to see you spend years in a fake reconciliation. I'd relook at divorce if I were you. If he can't be 100% honest with you then he's not worth keeping.


As much as it bothers me to defend him I feel pretty sure he's told me everything. Of course I can never know for certain, which bothers me a lot. But I have made it easy for him to come clean several times, I've made it very clear that the longer it takes the worse it will get... There was a bit of trickle truth but within two day he had told me everything. Also he wanted a divorce at the time, he had nothing to loose by being honest, he said the reason he trickle truthed at first was because he didn't think I would handle all the information at once. Although his regard for my feelings were extremely limited at that time. He was actively trying to push me away, if there was more to tell I'm sure he would have said it in an attempt to make me give up. 

I think it's more likely that I feel so bad because I fought so hard for so long, and now that it's finally over I'm exhausted and taking the pain and hurt in much more...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Emmi said:


> As much as it bothers me to defend him I feel pretty sure he's told me everything. Of course I can never know for certain, which bothers me a lot. But I have made it easy for him to come clean several times, I've made it very clear that the longer it takes the worse it will get... There was a bit of trickle truth but within two day he had told me everything. Also he wanted a divorce at the time, he had nothing to loose by being honest, he said the reason he trickle truthed at first was because he didn't think I would handle all the information at once. Although his regard for my feelings were extremely limited at that time. He was actively trying to push me away, if there was more to tell I'm sure he would have said it in an attempt to make me give up.
> 
> I think it's more likely that I feel so bad because I fought so hard for so long, and now that it's finally over I'm exhausted and taking the pain and hurt in much more...


You would think this would bring out the truth, but not necessarily. He may have shame he was/is covering up. He may not want to give you any more information than he has to, because he felt it was private and non of your business at the time. Now he wouldn't tell you for fear of losing you. There are many reasons for him to lie.
I'm not saying he's lying, but if you could get a polygraph, I'd recommend it.


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## veganmermaid (Jun 17, 2016)

CynthiaDe said:


> You would think this would bring out the truth, but not necessarily. He may have shame he was/is covering up. He may not want to give you any more information than he has to, because he felt it was private and non of your business at the time. Now he wouldn't tell you for fear of losing you. There are many reasons for him to lie.
> I'm not saying he's lying, but if you could get a polygraph, I'd recommend it.


I have to concur with Cynthia. My WH wanted a D when I found the first round of evidence. He lied and minimized, despite wanting a D before the A came to light. Then he TTed; eventually we decided to R and he continued to lie about (really hide) his other two PAs. That went on for a while, I found more evidence, he went on lying "to protect me..." The point is, cheaters lie. They just do. No sense wondering why or when they'll stop; you just have to know that they will lie and keep lying for no good reason. Hence, the polygraph.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Yes. Cheaters lie and liars lie. If he lied to you in the first place, don't be so sure that he isn't still lying. I'm not saying he is. I'm saying that the chances are high that he is lying.


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## wellseasoned (Jan 8, 2016)

Marriage is like a gravel road, love the sound of rocks under tire, but there are always pot holes ahead.... :wink2:


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