# Women always into the bad boys?



## dennisg1

I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either. 

That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers. 

Are women always attracted to the bad boys? 

I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


----------



## NobodySpecial

When you are "out" and looking to "pick up" you are likely going to find people who are doing the same.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

dennisg1 said:


> I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either.
> 
> That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers.
> 
> Are women always attracted to the bad boys?
> 
> I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


Most of the women I know who were into "bad boys" or even "jocks" are divorcees. The ones who remarried did go for something more stable second time around 

Such is the lament of the nice guy, as sometimes he waits to be discovered and appreciated.


----------



## Yeswecan

A majority of women I know that went for the bad boys are now down and out in Beverly Hills. It is fun until it's not anymore. 

There are women who like a "good soul" and actively look for that person.


----------



## personofinterest

dennisg1 said:


> I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either.
> 
> That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers.
> 
> Are women always attracted to the bad boys?
> 
> I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


Women are not a hive mind.

"All the women like bad boys" is what jaded MGTOWs or incels say to themselves to explain why they can't get a woman to give them sex.


----------



## dennisg1

NobodySpecial said:


> When you are "out" and looking to "pick up" you are likely going to find people who are doing the same.


At the moment, I wouldn't mind to "pick up" but I guess my look just doesn't convey the quick type of hook up guy. Lol.



Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Most of the women I know who were into "bad boys" or even "jocks" are divorcees. The ones who remarried did go for something more stable second time around
> 
> Such is the lament of the nice guy, as sometimes he waits to be discovered and appreciated.


I did play sports and go to the gym still, so have a pretty big build but I guess maybe I should try changing my look a bit to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## dennisg1

personofinterest said:


> Women are not a hive mind.
> 
> "All the women like bad boys" is what jaded MGTOWs or incels say to themselves to explain why they can't get a woman to give them sex.


I wouldn't say I don't have sex or meet/go out with women but these guys are on a whole different level; which makes me think that they're look attracts these type of women easier than my clean cut look. Maybe I need to take some pointers from them. Lol.


----------



## NobodySpecial

dennisg1 said:


> I wouldn't say I don't have sex or meet/go out with women but these guys are on a whole different level; which makes me think that they're look attracts these type of women easier than my clean cut look. Maybe I need to take some pointers from them. Lol.


It seems to be what you want. Go for it. Let us know how it works for you.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

dennisg1 said:


> I did play sports and go to the gym still, so have a pretty big build but I guess maybe I should try changing my look a bit to see if it makes a difference.


Not what I was implying


"Jock" as I used it is both attitude as well as athleticism. And I'm talking about women who got married young when the prestige and thrill of landing the quarterback or power forward was exciting. A few years out of high school or college at the latest, this is no longer a thing.


----------



## Lila

I am outside of the age range you describe but I have always had very little interest in the bad boy. I have always been more interested in emotionally supportive and financially stable men than 'bad boys'. 

When I was younger, none of the 'bad boys' I met were stable. They were fun but unstable. The reformed 'bad boys' I meet nowadays have more baggage than I care to deal with at this point in my life.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Curious though. What brings you to a marriage forum to figure out how to do the pick up?


----------



## pLaTesPinNeR

I’m with the other ladies here. The bad boy is not for me - not into tattoos (though not against them), the biker look, etc. I’m deeply attracted to a well groomed, sexy man in a great fitting suit or shirt. I love the confidence that exudes. But I also like a rugged, bearded man in jeans and t-shirt. It’s honestly more about things like eyes, smile, posture and body language. How he looks at me when we’re talking. Types of things he says. Confidence gets me every time.


----------



## pLaTesPinNeR

NobodySpecial said:


> Curious though. What brings you to a marriage forum to figure out how to do the pick up?


Haha glad someone said it.


----------



## ConanHub

I think there is a primal attraction for bad boys with a bunch of caveats.

There is a very real attraction for men who seem capable of enforcing their will either to protect or harm, through direct physical means or more subtle power.

So even losers who are bad boys will attract many women though a lot of women are smart enough to avoid losers.

I am a mostly reformed bad boy but "he" is always there, just beneath the surface.

I never got a tat but use to ride, had long hair and never lost a fight.

I had women offering themselves to me in bizzare fashion and with no shame.

I was also fairly pretty for a tough guy and I recently found out that the girls also thought I was nice to them.

If you have reasonable attractiveness, treat women well and have a touch of dangerous in your heart, you have a killer combination for attracting many women.

No one will attract them all but some can attract most.

Sons of Anarchy was quite popular with a certain group of people for primal reasons. For such an extremely sexist show, it had an unusually high female audience. I was very surprised to have many housewives enthusiastically tell me what a great show it was and I should try it.


----------



## Taxman

Had an old buddy that lived the "bad boy" life. Sure did get a lot of women, however, when the bad boy hits his mid 30's with nothing to show, he soon becomes, "That old loser" They begin to look like old pervs. Remember the line from Dazed and Confused. I get older every year and the girls stay the same. Yeah, at 35 trying to bed some 18 year old. Nope. A few of them grow up. But I have been around more than one of my wife's gf's who dated the bad boys, and discovered that there is no future in the bad boy.


----------



## dennisg1

NobodySpecial said:


> Curious though. What brings you to a marriage forum to figure out how to do the pick up?


This isn't my first post and I didn't come to a marriage forum to ask about picking up, just trying to get a woman's perspective on this from the TAM community.

I was married, wife cheated, and now divorced; so TAM and fellow members helped me a lot during this difficult period in my life, which I greatly appreciate! 

Now with the fog lifted and a new outlook on life, I'm back in the dating/singles scene. So in my current situation, not looking for a relationship at this point, so was just curious to hear what other women thought of the "bad boy" because in my recent going out experience with newly made friends who are single the "bad boy" look/approach seems to work for them all the time.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

ConanHub said:


> I think there is a primal attraction for bad boys with a bunch of caveats.
> 
> *There is a very real attraction for men who seem capable of enforcing their will either to protect or harm, through direct physical means or more subtle power.*
> 
> So even losers who are bad boys will attract many women though a lot of women are smart enough to avoid losers.
> 
> I am a mostly reformed bad boy but "he" is always there, just beneath the surface.
> 
> I never got a tat but use to ride, had long hair and never lost a fight.
> 
> I had women offering themselves to me in bizzare fashion and with no shame.
> 
> I was also fairly pretty for a tough guy and I recently found out that the girls also thought I was nice to them.
> *
> If you have reasonable attractiveness, treat women well and have a touch of dangerous in your heart, you have a killer combination for attracting many women*.
> 
> No one will attract them all but some can attract most.
> 
> *Sons of Anarchy was quite popular with a certain group of people for primal reasons. For such an extremely sexist show, it had an unusually high female audience. *I was very surprised to have many housewives enthusiastically tell me what a great show it was and I should try it.


YESSSSS all of this LOL! Bad boys are just sexy. I want a man who looks like a bad boy, but is stable, pays his bills, and treats me like a princess while he smacks my butt and pulls my hair! :grin2:


----------



## Taxman

You know that bad boy? He is the one that starts the affair, then when his squeeze gets too close, he bails. That is another constant in this. He may be married, or single. Really does not matter. His behavior is still adolescent. Always will be. Sure he will start an affair, BUT he will be the first to run for the hills if his affair partner ever wants it to get serious. Had one or two WW's empty kleenex boxes boo hoo hooing that they blew up their marriage for a POS who talked a good game, but when it was time for the rubber to hit the road, loverboy ran home to mama or wifey. Now they are dealing with the detrius, and the AP is nowhere to be found.

My SIL was dating the bad boy. When it came time for him to meet the family, he ran like a thief. There was too much commitment in that act.


----------



## Andy1001

dennisg1 said:


> This isn't my first post and I didn't come to a marriage forum to ask about picking up, just trying to get a woman's perspective on this from the TAM community.
> 
> I was married, wife cheated, and now divorced; so TAM and fellow members helped me a lot during this difficult period in my life, which I greatly appreciate!
> 
> Now with the fog lifted and a new outlook on life, I'm back in the dating/singles scene. So in my current situation, not looking for a relationship at this point, so was just curious to hear what other women thought of the "bad boy" because in my recent going out experience with newly made friends who are single the "bad boy" look/approach seems to work for them all the time.


Tell me,are you hanging around biker bars?
Or are these tattooed,bearded,rugged guys more of the “weekend warrior” type. 
Do they wear Rolex’s on their full sleeve tattoos. 
Being a “bad boy” over the age of thirty is pathetic and the women coming onto these guys are equally pathetic.


----------



## Ursula

Well, for starters, beards and sleeve tattoos don’t necessarily equate to being a bad boy. Personally, I prefer men with facial hair, and tend to veer more towards men to boast that type of look on the OLD sites as opposed to clean-cut. Tattoos are just a personal expression, they don’t make a person who they are. 

That all being said, I’m sure that some women DO have more attraction to the bad boys, but on the flip-side, there are women who tend towards good guys too. I guess it depends on what she’s looking for at that time in her life, what kind of dating she wants to do (casual vs stable relationship).


----------



## Lila

dennisg1 said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> 
> Curious though. What brings you to a marriage forum to figure out how to do the pick up?
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't my first post and I didn't come to a marriage forum to ask about picking up, just trying to get a woman's perspective on this from the TAM community.
> 
> I was married, wife cheated, and now divorced; so TAM and fellow members helped me a lot during this difficult period in my life, which I greatly appreciate!
> 
> Now with the fog lifted and a new outlook on life, I'm back in the dating/singles scene. *So in my current situation, not looking for a relationship at this point, so was just curious to hear what other women thought of the "bad boy" because in my recent going out experience with newly made friends who are single the "bad boy" look/approach seems to work for them all the time*.
Click to expand...

Having a beard and tattoos does not make someone a bad boy especially not today where beards and tattoos are the trendy rage. 

But as far as "acting" the bad boy....please don't. A sober woman will pick up that you are playing dress up and posing as something your are not.


----------



## ConanHub

Lila said:


> Having a beard and tattoos does not make someone a bad boy especially not today where beards and tattoos are the trendy rage.
> 
> But as far as "acting" the bad boy....please don't. A sober woman will pick up that you are playing dress up and posing as something your are not.


Truth. Men can develop into a bit more tough and maybe work a little bad into their systems but unless they have a life altering experience, not good, they will likely never have a bad boy in them for real.

I had a friend that wanted tips because he wanted to be more attractive to women.

I did as much as I could but he was still, 100%, geeky, lovable nice guy.

He did learn a couple useful tips he incorporated and improved his overall game but he will never be a bad boy.

Just not in his nature at all.

Don't even worry about tats unless you really want one but not to impress anyone.

Real bad boys can have baby faces, no tats and stand a few inches shorter than average.

Just develop who you are is my advice. My geeky friend did fine.:grin2:


----------



## Diana7

dennisg1 said:


> I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either.
> 
> That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers.
> 
> Are women always attracted to the bad boys?
> 
> I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


No never been interested in bad boys. I am attracted to men with good character, strong values and integrity. Also I prefer clean shaven men with no tattoos.


----------



## sunsetmist

Demonstrate confidence--what you do with your eyes, listening-really listening, work out and eat right. Find a really good hair stylist and ask him/her about better hair style. Ask a good men's store about dress. Be interested in what is going on in the world--from these types of things comes confidence.

Do you love kids and animals?--big plus. Do you love family--plus. Do you volunteer?--super.

As already said, be a better version of who you really are and be comfortable with yourself.


----------



## Taxman

My wife liked that I looked the part of the bad boy, long hair, piercings and a tatt. But at the same time I was doing finance and accounting at university. So the hair went, piercings not worn til the weekend, (that is until I opened my own shop, then, if you don't like the way I look, there's the door.), and tatt covered except in the gym. The beard gave way to a goatee, which I still keep. Big biker body, well that went after two heart attacks, and a lot of recuperation.


----------



## Wolf1974

ConanHub said:


> Truth. Men can develop into a bit more tough and maybe work a little bad into their systems but unless they have a life altering experience, not good, they will likely never have a bad boy in them for real.
> 
> I had a friend that wanted tips because he wanted to be more attractive to women.
> 
> I did as much as I could but he was still, 100%, geeky, lovable nice guy.
> 
> He did learn a couple useful tips he incorporated and improved his overall game but he will never be a bad boy.
> 
> Just not in his nature at all.
> 
> Don't even worry about tats unless you really want one but not to impress anyone.
> 
> Real bad boys can have baby faces, no tats and stand a few inches shorter than average.
> 
> Just develop who you are is my advice. My geeky friend did fine.:grin2:


I agree. I never understood the “women want bad boy” thing. Sure some do but some women like rich, athletic, intelligent, well hung lol the list goes on. My point is be yourself and go after the women who find you attractive for what you are. Never been the bad guy, always the good guy, and never an issue meeting women


----------



## Marc878

Maybe a certain type of women go for bad boys but that doesn't say much for them. 

Why would you want that **** in your life?


----------



## sokillme

Where are you hanging out? What type of women are you trying to pick up exactly? 

Are there women into bad boys sure? Some women just like the look. Some men like women who dress very sexy. It' no different. And you sound no different then a women who says of her scantily dressed friends, "all men want is if you show lots of skin and dress ****ty." People are attracted to what they are attracted to. By the way nothing is stopping you from getting tattoos. right?

You need to find yourself and stop worrying about what your friends are doing. Maybe this crowd isn't the type that will be into you, so find another one. Maybe bars are not the best place to show off what you have to offer. 

Like @sunsetmist said. Demonstrate confidence. Be cool enough with yourself to be fine if some women don't find you attractive.


----------



## uhtred

There are some women who are into "bad boys". Often over time they discover that bad boys are exactly what they seem to be - and that isn't much fun after a while.


----------



## Mr.Married

Sometimes you just have to take a different path :

Buy a white T-shirt and a black magic marker. Write the following on the shirt:

Hi I'm "enter name"

I'm looking for a good and decent woman.

I have a job , house, truck, and I'm STD free.

I'm divorced but never cheated on my woman.

They were out of puppies at the animal shelter, can I take you home instead?



It might not be traditional ...... but I can almost promise you will find a taker.


----------



## sokillme

Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes you just have to take a different path :
> 
> Buy a white T-shirt and a black magic marker. Write the following on the shirt:
> 
> Hi I'm "enter name"
> 
> I'm looking for a good and decent woman.
> 
> I have a job , house, truck, and I'm STD free.
> 
> I'm divorced but never cheated on my woman.
> 
> They were out of puppies at the animal shelter, can I take you home instead?
> 
> 
> 
> It might not be traditional ...... but I can almost promise you will find a taker.


Spoken like a name here imply. It's obviously been a long time since you dated huh? 0
@dennisg1

What kind of shape are you in? How do you dress? Maybe you need a makeover? Not saying get tats and stuff, but maybe you need to figure out what the best you is in that department. There are plenty of resources available with the help of the internet.


----------



## Laurentium

"Truth in advertising" is your best bet. If you're looking for pickup for casual sex, and are capable of carrying that off, then dress in a way that advertises that. If you're looking for candidates for (eventually) a LTR, dress like that. And, ask yourself why you're looking for whichever of those it is.


----------



## Blondilocks

ConanHub said:


> I think there is a primal attraction for bad boys with a bunch of caveats.
> 
> There is a very real attraction for men who seem capable of enforcing their will either to protect or harm, through direct physical means or more subtle power.
> 
> So even losers who are bad boys will attract many women though a lot of women are smart enough to avoid losers.
> 
> I am a mostly reformed bad boy but "he" is always there, just beneath the surface.
> 
> I never got a tat but use to ride, had long hair and never lost a fight.
> 
> I had women offering themselves to me in bizzare fashion and with no shame.
> 
> I was also fairly pretty for a tough guy and I recently found out that the girls also thought I was nice to them.
> 
> If you have reasonable attractiveness, treat women well and have a touch of dangerous in your heart, you have a killer combination for attracting many women.
> 
> No one will attract them all but some can attract most.
> 
> Sons of Anarchy was quite popular with a certain group of people for primal reasons. For such an extremely sexist show, it had an unusually high female audience. I was very surprised to have many housewives enthusiastically tell me what a great show it was and I should try it.


I started watching for Katey Sagal and kept watching to see how low her husband (Kurt Sutter, Director) would go. That man has some serious issues.

As for tats, they have become so mainstream that I'm surprised bikers still get them. It seems like they would go counter culture.


----------



## ConanHub

Blondilocks said:


> I started watching for Katey Sagal and kept watching to see how low her husband (Kurt Sutter, Director) would go. That man has some serious issues.
> 
> As for tats, they have become so mainstream that I'm surprised bikers still get them. It seems like they would go counter culture.


I agree about Kurt though he got some biker culture accurate.

SOA was way over the top but a lot of the culture was there.

I had to stop watching in season 1 I think. It was turning my stomach and brought back some bad memories.


----------



## Mr The Other

dennisg1 said:


> I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either.
> 
> That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers.
> 
> Are women always attracted to the bad boys?
> 
> I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


I have no deep insight, but I might reflect on my experience. 

If you would like to act a certain way, but are too cowardly to act like that, then this will change how you see others. People hwo do not act like that will seem to be cowards and those who do act like that are brave. That does mean there are some horrible people who act nice out of cowardice who will be attracted to who act horribly, but it applies for anything.

You go out to a bar. What are people in a bar looking for in a night out at a bar, an out there time and going a little wild, or being safe and secure? You are offering the second option to an audience after the first. And, on top of this, it is hard to see if your apparent kindness is moral strength or uptight domestication. Domestication is very important to raise people, when we teach dogs to act a certain way to "deserve" treats and affection, it is not moral strength. An adult has to learn to break their domestication and your feeling that it is unfair that guys without a career are still getting the girls sounds very like domestication. 

I will add something else, women are under intense pressure to be "good", far, far more than us men are. That means, they need a man who can be the baddie. You may not be offering that.


----------



## ConanHub

Mr The Other said:


> I have no deep insight, but I might reflect on my experience.
> 
> If you would like to act a certain way, but are too cowardly to act like that, then this will change how you see others. People hwo do not act like that will seem to be cowards and those who do act like that are brave. That does mean there are some horrible people who act nice out of cowardice who will be attracted to who act horribly, but it applies for anything.
> 
> You go out to a bar. What are people in a bar looking for in a night out at a bar, an out there time and going a little wild, or being safe and secure? You are offering the second option to an audience after the first. And, on top of this, it is hard to see if your apparent kindness is moral strength or uptight domestication. Domestication is very important to raise people, when we teach dogs to act a certain way to "deserve" treats and affection, it is not moral strength. An adult has to learn to break their domestication and your feeling that it is unfair that guys without a career are still getting the girls sounds very like domestication.
> 
> I will add something else, women are under intense pressure to be "good", far, far more than us men are. That means, they need a man who can be the baddie. You may not be offering that.


The jury is still out on if I agree with everything here but I agree with some of it and there is some great food for thought.

I like the way you analyze.


----------



## Andy1001

ConanHub said:


> Truth. Men can develop into a bit more tough and maybe work a little bad into their systems but unless they have a life altering experience, not good, they will likely never have a bad boy in them for real.
> 
> I had a friend that wanted tips because he wanted to be more attractive to women.
> 
> I did as much as I could but he was still, 100%, geeky, lovable nice guy.
> 
> He did learn a couple useful tips he incorporated and improved his overall game but he will never be a bad boy.
> 
> Just not in his nature at all.
> 
> Don't even worry about tats unless you really want one but not to impress anyone.
> 
> Real bad boys can have baby faces, no tats and stand a few inches shorter than average.
> 
> Just develop who you are is my advice. My geeky friend did fine.:grin2:


To put it in simple terms, there’s no point having the recipe if you don’t have the ingredients.


----------



## ConanHub

Andy1001 said:


> To put it in simple terms, there’s no point having the recipe if you don’t have the ingredients.


Extremely apt analogy.

Very well put and I'm stealing it!


----------



## sokillme

The great news is women just like men are not a one size fits all. The truth is if you are not a bad boy you are not, in the end, going to get much out of being with the type of women who love the bad boy. So it's really no loss. You just have to find where you come across the strongest. I am sure there is some setting where you come across great you just have to find it. 

Bars by their very nature are going to weigh very highly on appearance, this is because it's loud and distracting. Thi doesn't offer some of the subtitles that can be just as attractive to people assuming you have a decent level of attractive qualities. For instance it's hard to have a good conversation and be funny if people are struggling to hear what you are saying. Lots of times it's just too subtle. It's easy thought to project some of the more shallow indicators of attractiveness. Such as tattoos. (I found that last sentence ridiculous to write, seriously if the women is choosing you for your tattoos I feel very bad for you.)

That doesn't mean you shouldn't try to look your best though. There is more then one attractive look. If you can have the look of someone like Jason Momoa you can try to pull off the look like Bradley Cooper. There are just as many women who are into that look. Why not go for the shirt and black casual sportcoat with jeans look? At the very least you might offer novelty where you are hanging out. The point is be the best you, you can be. Ask your women friends what they think as you try stuff out. And get in shape and lift weights! It will change the shape of your face and give you a more attractive masculine look. You don't have to be the Rock, but every little bit helps. Despite what movies have told you, women are just as attracted to appearance as men at first. It's really unfair for us men to strive for a mate that looks like a movie star and not also understand and appreciate the fact that women do the same. Now obviously we can all be that but you can try. 

Probably the other thing that is just as important is to speak up. If you want to project strength, have something to say and don't be afraid to say it. You will have a better chance if you just have a thirst for knowledge and become an active listener. That way you will have a lot of topics in your wheelhouse to go to to to make a connection. That is what you are trying to do. Humor helps as well.


----------



## ConanHub

I have observed women and men go wonky around certain people.

It is literally like their brains have some kind of override or short circuit.

I'm fascinated by this affect and, while I have seen it displayed for bad boys, I have also witnessed it in effect in many other circumstances.

Maybe that is some of what OP is witnessing?

I'm not discounting women who just lean that way. I think what I'm referring to is in addition to preferences and even overrides some people's preferences.

There seems to be some combination of traits that override rational thoughts for many.

I have seen women lay themselves out on a counter next to a cash register at a convenience store and two wives, one holding a baby, offer afternoon delight anytime to a man they definitely weren't married to.


----------



## Mr The Other

ConanHub said:


> The jury is still out on if I agree with everything here but I agree with some of it and there is some great food for thought.
> 
> I like the way you analyze.


Thank you. And it is impressive to be able to appreciate an argument you might not fully agree with.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> I have observed women and men go wonky around certain people.
> 
> It is literally like their brains have some kind of override or short circuit.
> 
> I'm fascinated by this affect and, while I have seen it displayed for bad boys, I have also witnessed it in effect in many other circumstances.
> 
> Maybe that is some of what OP is witnessing?
> 
> I'm not discounting women who just lean that way. I think what I'm referring to is in addition to preferences and even overrides some people's preferences.
> 
> There seems to be some combination of traits that override rational thoughts for many.
> 
> I have seen women lay themselves out on a counter next to a cash register at a convenience store and two wives, one holding a baby, offer afternoon delight anytime to a man they definitely weren't married to.


Some people are ****ty for the shallowest of reasons. It's not like that is news. I personally think there is some correlation to someone who places very high value (enough to offer ones body when married) on appearance being attracted to a more bold choice in appearances . The bad boy look is generally a bold choice. Like the one posters said it's all advertising. That's not to say there are women who are into the bad boy look and won't cheat ever. Actually I am probably full of ****. Just as many shallow women will have sex with men because of their money.

*Before you write your reply that men do it too*, I think overall there are probably an equal amount of shallow men and women, it's just shallow women are generally more broad in there choices of what attracts them. Tats, money, etc. Men are generally driven by appearances at least at first. (I am sure someone is going to be offended by this paragraph, feel free to write what an ******* I am.)


----------



## ConanHub

sokillme said:


> Some people are ****ty for the shallowest of reasons. It's not like that is news. I personally think there is some correlation to someone who places very high value (enough to offer ones body when married) on appearance being attracted to a more bold choice in appearances . The bad boy look is generally a bold choice. Like the one posters said it's all advertising. That's not to say there are women who are into the bad boy look and won't cheat ever. Actually I am probably full of ****. Just as many shallow women will have sex with men because of their money.
> 
> *Before you write your reply that men do it too*, I think overall there are probably an equal amount of shallow men and women, it's just shallow women are generally more broad in there choices of what attracts them. Tats, money, etc. Men are generally driven by appearances at least at first. (I am sure someone is going to be offended by this paragraph, feel free to write what an ******* I am.)


I don't think your an ******* and I don't think all of these folks I'm referring to are shallow. Some are but many seem pretty rational most of the time but don't seem to know how to deal with the "override" when it hits them.

I can't see them rationalizing crazy behavior later. It literally seems like something grabs control over them for a while.


----------



## sokillme

ConanHub said:


> I don't think your an ******* and I don't think all of these folks I'm referring to are shallow. Some are but many seem pretty rational most of the time but don't seem to know how to deal with the "override" when it hits them.
> 
> I can't see them rationalizing crazy behavior later. It literally seems like something grabs control over them for a while.


I don't know being married with a kid and telling some stranger they can **** you seems like the most shallowest of choices when it comes to your future. That's not what I would call a thoughtful person.

People have types that's for sure.

I have been privy women talking about about how hot a guy is because he runs a good board meeting, and the guy was not Brad Pitt level or anything. I suspect it was because he projected great strength in the meeting and everyone was looking to him for leadership. I was like, that guy?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

When I was young, I would say I got my parents permission before calling and ordering toys on Nickelodeon commercials. Its was a lie! I never got their permission. I used to rip mattress tags off. I would ask for a water at fast food restaurants, which was free. Then I would fill that water cup with sprite. Sometimes I'll go 75mph when the limit is 65mph. When I was a little kid and people left their Halloween candy outside with a sign saying "take one" I would always take more than one. I would even sneak my own food and drinks into the movies. Speaking of the movies, I would get dropped off by my mom, and me and my friends would buy tickets to a G rated movie, then sneak into an R rated movie. Even today, I don't always put my shopping carts back into the shopping cart returns at the grocery store.

I Can barely keep the ladies off of me.


----------



## Andy1001

TheDudeLebowski said:


> When I was young, I would say I got my parents permission before calling and ordering toys on Nickelodeon commercials. Its was a lie! I never got their permission. I used to rip mattress tags off. I would ask for a water at fast food restaurants, which was free. Then I would fill that water cup with sprite. Sometimes I'll go 75mph when the limit is 65mph. When I was a little kid and people left their Halloween candy outside with a sign saying "take one" I would always take more than one. I would even sneak my own food and drinks into the movies. Speaking of the movies, I would get dropped off by my mom, and me and my friends would buy tickets to a G rated movie, then sneak into an R rated movie. Even today, I don't always put my shopping carts back into the shopping cart returns at the grocery store.
> 
> I Can barely keep the ladies off of me.


I keep hearing the song “Desperado” in my head for some reason.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Andy1001 said:


> I keep hearing the song “Desperado” in my head for some reason.


Not everyone is cut out for this hard and fast life I live. When the ladies learn I'm willing to bring a 4oz bottle instead of the 3oz limit of liquid soap onto a plane, they can't handle it. My own wife almost left me when she discovered all the hotel soaps, shampoos, and single coffees in my bag upon returning home. I even took the small sewing kit.


----------



## ConanHub

TheDudeLebowski said:


> When I was young, I would say I got my parents permission before calling and ordering toys on Nickelodeon commercials. Its was a lie! I never got their permission. I used to rip mattress tags off. I would ask for a water at fast food restaurants, which was free. Then I would fill that water cup with sprite. Sometimes I'll go 75mph when the limit is 65mph. When I was a little kid and people left their Halloween candy outside with a sign saying "take one" I would always take more than one. I would even sneak my own food and drinks into the movies. Speaking of the movies, I would get dropped off by my mom, and me and my friends would buy tickets to a G rated movie, then sneak into an R rated movie. Even today, I don't always put my shopping carts back into the shopping cart returns at the grocery store.
> 
> I Can barely keep the ladies off of me.


You are one scary SOB!!!>


----------



## oldshirt

dennisg1 I feel your pain. I too am a clean cut, baby face that looks like I belong in boys church choir. 

And even though women have told me that I am good looking and a good guy, I have always experienced the exact same thing in that if a gal was out on the town DTF, she would walk right past me without even seeing me and rub up against some shaggy looking dude. 

One time when I was maybe 20, I was hanging out with the town wh*re and she was talking about the various guys she'd been with and she literally said to me, and I quote... "..but I could never do that to you. You are too nice and not that kind of guy." WTF? :-O 

Now perhaps my grandmother would've told me it was a good thing that a girl of ill-repute did not see me as suitable, but I have to admit it kind of hurt my feelings that someone that had been with half the guys in town did not see me as worthy of her sexy time. Maybe I'm wrong for feeling that way, but I couldn't help feeling rejected and slighted. 

I turned up the volume with her a bit over the next couple weeks and I guess she decided I wasn't that "nice" after all and we ended up having quite the hot time for a few months and have been friends and occasional FWBs over the years ever since ;-)

Over the years I have had several women tell me that they were very surprised at how uninhibited and passionate I am in bed. I really think my appearance and general social demeanor make people think I am some kind of asexual choir boy, when really I am not. 

But I think a lot of what takes place here is you use different bait for different fish and you have to be mindful of the bait you are using. A clean cut, baby faced, choir boy-looking guy like me is basically invisible to chicks in a bar looking for a NSA hook up for a night. 

They may try to set me up with their sweet church-going coworker that got cheated on and needs to find some sweet guy to treat her nice and sooth her wounds, but as far as a hook up for herself - Baby Face is not on the radar. 

And it goes both ways too. If some gal looks and acts all sweet and innocent and seems like she'd be the perfect sunday school teacher, most guys out for a quick hook up are probably not going to be hitting on her as much as the stripper down the street. She may not be as overlooked as the choir boy looking guy by any means but my point is people still make a lot of judgments and assumptions based on appearance and demeanor. 

A somewhat edgy looking biker dude is going to look more DTF for a quick hook up and less likely to judge and ask questions than a nerdy looking baby face that looks like he should be on his way to bible study rather than husseling chicks in a meat market club. 

I don't know if bad boys actually turn on women more than baby faces or if it is that women simply feel more accepted and less judged sexually by bad boys than what they think they would be with a choir boy. 

Kind of like men will say and do things to strippers and party girls that they would never say to the uptight sunday school teacher.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

I talk to nuns the same way I talk to strippers.


----------



## AandM

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Not everyone is cut out for this hard and fast life I live. When the ladies learn I'm willing to bring a 4oz bottle instead of the 3oz limit of liquid soap onto a plane, they can't handle it. My own wife almost left me when she discovered all the hotel soaps, shampoos, and single coffees in my bag upon returning home. I even took the small sewing kit.


You forgot to loosen the lid on on the salt shaker at the restaurant and shaking all of the individual creamer cups at the convenience store until they clabber. You'll be beating them off with a stick.


----------



## oldshirt

TheDudeLebowski said:


> I talk to nuns the same way I talk to strippers.


With all this macho posturing, what are you going to say next - That you hang up on telemarketers without even hearing what they are selling???


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

oldshirt said:


> With all this macho posturing, what are you going to say next - That you hang up on telemarketers without even hearing what they are selling???


First of all, I talk to nuns and strippers the same because I'm talking to them about Jesus. 

I do the same to telemarketers as well. They end up just hanging up on me. 

"Great news, we'll be doing free home roof inspections in your neighborhood tomorrow. Are you available at 9:00am or would 10:00am work better for you?"

"I'm not sure, but I'm actually glad you called because I would like to tell you about Jesus. I think I could show you how you can be a better person by looking to Jesus for the answers. Do you have the next 30 minutes or so?"

*click*


----------



## Mr.Married

TheDudeLebowski said:


> When I was young, I would say I got my parents permission before calling and ordering toys on Nickelodeon commercials. Its was a lie! I never got their permission. I used to rip mattress tags off. I would ask for a water at fast food restaurants, which was free. Then I would fill that water cup with sprite. Sometimes I'll go 75mph when the limit is 65mph. When I was a little kid and people left their Halloween candy outside with a sign saying "take one" I would always take more than one. I would even sneak my own food and drinks into the movies. Speaking of the movies, I would get dropped off by my mom, and me and my friends would buy tickets to a G rated movie, then sneak into an R rated movie. Even today, I don't always put my shopping carts back into the shopping cart returns at the grocery store.
> 
> I Can barely keep the ladies off of me.



Your from Texas ..... you just can't help it ...... your a natural born bad a$$

Save a horse .... ride a :whip:


----------



## Betrayedone

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Not everyone is cut out for this hard and fast life I live. When the ladies learn I'm willing to bring a 4oz bottle instead of the 3oz limit of liquid soap onto a plane, they can't handle it. My own wife almost left me when she discovered all the hotel soaps, shampoos, and single coffees in my bag upon returning home. I even took the small sewing kit.


You are one bad ass dude.......THIS is why society is failing.......


----------



## NobodySpecial

TheDudeLebowski said:


> First of all, I talk to nuns and strippers the same because I'm talking to them about Jesus.
> 
> I do the same to telemarketers as well. They end up just hanging up on me.
> 
> "Great news, we'll be doing free home roof inspections in your neighborhood tomorrow. Are you available at 9:00am or would 10:00am work better for you?"
> 
> "I'm not sure, but I'm actually glad you called because I would like to tell you about Jesus. I think I could show you how you can be a better person by looking to Jesus for the answers. Do you have the next 30 minutes or so?"
> 
> *click*


It's faster to just hand the phone to your toddler.


----------



## Andy1001

Betrayedone said:


> You are one bad ass dude.......THIS is why society is failing.......


I bet he leaves the seat up in the bathroom too!!!


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Its been scientifically proven women like different types of men depending on what phase of the cycle they are on. If they are in their ovulatory phase, they go for the more masculine rugged types. And use them for hot wild sex (because evolution and such). 

Outside of that phase, they prefer more clean cut types with more feminine faces. But that doesn't mean she will lay you like Chad or Tyrone last week, no, she wants to use you as her orbiter.


----------



## AandM

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its been scientifically proven women like different types of men depending on what phase of the cycle they are on. If they are in their ovulatory phase, they go for the more masculine rugged types. And use them for hot wild sex (because evolution and such).
> 
> Outside of that phase, they prefer more clean cut types with more feminine faces. But that doesn't mean she will lay you like Chad or Tyrone last week, no, she wants to use you as her orbiter.


It's also been proven that Colgate is better than Crest. Evolutionary Dentoligists have proven it via studies involving vast numbers (cough 30, cough) of undergraduates in their classes that KNOW, absolutely KNOW, that their response WILL NOT BE REFLECTED IN THEIR GRADE (not yelling Elemom).


----------



## lucy999

3Xnocharm said:


> YESSSSS all of this LOL! Bad boys are just sexy. I want a man who looks like a bad boy, but is stable, pays his bills, and treats me like a princess while he smacks my butt and pulls my hair! :grin2:


OMG yessssss!!!!!


----------



## lucy999

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its been scientifically proven women like different types of men depending on what phase of the cycle they are on. If they are in their ovulatory phase, they go for the more masculine rugged types. And use them for hot wild sex (because evolution and such).
> 
> Outside of that phase, they prefer more clean cut types with more feminine faces. But that doesn't mean she will lay you like Chad or Tyrone last week, no, she wants to use you as her orbiter.


I don't fit in this category. 

I've never ever been attracted to clean cut men. Give me a dirty, steel toed boot wearing man and I'm in. No suits, no clean shaven baby faces. :smile2:

OP, be yourself. Sure, change it up only if you feel comfortable. Get a more edgy haircut, grow some sideburns and a 5'oclock shadow, update your glasses to a more aggressive modern frame if you wear them. But only if you're comfortable doing so. You must be genuine first and foremost to yourself.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

AandM said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its been scientifically proven women like different types of men depending on what phase of the cycle they are on. If they are in their ovulatory phase, they go for the more masculine rugged types. And use them for hot wild sex (because evolution and such).
> 
> Outside of that phase, they prefer more clean cut types with more feminine faces. But that doesn't mean she will lay you like Chad or Tyrone last week, no, she wants to use you as her orbiter.
> 
> 
> 
> It's also been proven that Colgate is better than Crest. Evolutionary Dentoligists have proven it via studies involving vast numbers (cough 30, cough) of undergraduates in their classes that KNOW, absolutely KNOW, that their response WILL NOT BE REFLECTED IN THEIR GRADE (not yelling Elemom).
Click to expand...

Don't hate the science. Learn the rules and then bend them to your advantage.


----------



## uhtred

One of my favorite lines since I've never heard a scientist use it. Besides the whole way science works you disprove things, not prove them. Be very suspicious of anyone who claims that science has "proven" something - that math that does that. 

Actually scientists don't disprove things much either - mostly they write grant proposals. (while desperately wishing they *could* do some real science)




UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Its been scientifically proven......


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

uhtred said:


> One of my favorite lines since I've never heard a scientist use it. Besides the whole way science works you disprove things, not prove them. Be very suspicious of anyone who claims that science has "proven" something - that math that does that.
> 
> Actually scientists don't disprove things much either - mostly they write grant proposals. (while desperately wishing they *could* do some real science)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its been scientifically proven......
Click to expand...

Fine dude, "numerous studies have shown..."


----------



## Mr The Other

I am a scientist. Genuinely, a PhD and am actually Dr the Other. 

Science creates a model of reality that will reflect what we observe. If you want to observe certain results, that model is your best bet.


----------



## AandM

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Don't hate the science. Learn the rules and then bend them to your advantage.


Holy replication crisis, Batman:




> Abstract
> 
> Although widely cited as strong evidence that sexual selection has shaped human facial attractiveness judgments, evidence that preferences for masculine characteristics in men's faces are related to women's hormonal status is equivocal and controversial. Consequently, we conducted the largest ever longitudinal study of the hormonal correlates of women's preferences for facial masculinity (N=584). Analyses showed no compelling evidence that preferences for facial masculinity were related to changes in women's salivary steroid hormone levels. Furthermore, both within-subject and between-subject comparisons showed no evidence that oral contraceptive use decreased masculinity preferences. However, women generally preferred masculinized over feminized versions of men's faces, particularly when assessing men's attractiveness for short-term, rather than long-term, relationships. Our results do not support the hypothesized link between women's preferences for facial masculinity and their hormonal status.




I don't care either way as this regards the thread's initial topic (what do girls like). I just found you blithely citing this study as God's Own Truth about what girls like, because evopsych is at the very center of the replication crisis, to be funny.

I regard evolutionary psychology in the same way I do horoscopes. Amusing, possible topic of conversation; but not something I'd actually trust to be right.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Women in their late 20's and 30's chasing bad boys, usually fall into three camps:
1. Divorced because they realize marriage isn't their thing (in other words they cheated)... or they are married and bored and want some excitement
2. Career oriented, have no interest in kids or family just riding the carousal
3. Are having a late reaction to the epiphany stage, wherein their SMV declines dramatically before they can lock down a guy like yourself, they may wait too long and die alone and childless.


----------



## Mr. Nail

AandM said:


> Holy replication crisis, Batman:
> 
> https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/136549v3
> 
> I don't care either way as this regards the thread's initial topic (what do girls like). I just found you blithely citing this study as God's Own Truth about what girls like, because evopsych is at the very center of the replication crisis, to be funny.
> 
> I regard evolutionary psychology in the same way I do horoscopes. Amusing, possible topic of conversation; but not something I'd actually trust to be right.


I think it said that as long as the women were drooling it didn't matter what his face looked like.


----------



## SpinyNorman

It's not just women, a male friend of mine gravitated towards cocktail waitresses w/ coke habits even though he was pretty straightlaced. EDIT: a lot of men and women aren't like this at all.

Most of us are somewhere on a progression w/ "Amish" at one end, and "Young Keith Richards" at the other. For most of us, there is a sweet spot with "too boring" to one side and "too scary" on the other, but that sweet spot is going to be at a difft. spot for each of us. It may be that where you are hanging out, you are too boring but in different circles you'd be in their sweet spot.

It's also possible your look is more of the difference than your personality.


----------



## AandM

SpinyNorman said:


> It's not just women, a male friend of mine gravitated towards cocktail waitresses w/ coke habits even though he was pretty straightlaced. EDIT: a lot of men and women aren't like this at all.
> 
> *Most of us are somewhere on a progression w/ "Amish" at one end, and "Young Keith Richards" at the other.* For most of us, there is a sweet spot with "too boring" to one side and "too scary" on the other, but that sweet spot is going to be at a difft. spot for each of us. It may be that where you are hanging out, you are too boring but in different circles you'd be in their sweet spot.
> 
> It's also possible your look is more of the difference than your personality.


Have, have... you made a graphic chart of this? Please say yes.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

AandM said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't hate the science. Learn the rules and then bend them to your advantage.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy replication crisis, Batman:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abstract
> 
> Although widely cited as strong evidence that sexual selection has shaped human facial attractiveness judgments, evidence that preferences for masculine characteristics in men's faces are related to women's hormonal status is equivocal and controversial. Consequently, we conducted the largest ever longitudinal study of the hormonal correlates of women's preferences for facial masculinity (N=584). Analyses showed no compelling evidence that preferences for facial masculinity were related to changes in women's salivary steroid hormone levels. Furthermore, both within-subject and between-subject comparisons showed no evidence that oral contraceptive use decreased masculinity preferences. However, women generally preferred masculinized over feminized versions of men's faces, particularly when assessing men's attractiveness for short-term, rather than long-term, relationships. Our results do not support the hypothesized link between women's preferences for facial masculinity and their hormonal status.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't care either way as this regards the thread's initial topic (what do girls like). I just found you blithely citing this study as God's Own Truth about what girls like, because evopsych is at the very center of the replication crisis, to be funny.
> 
> I regard evolutionary psychology in the same way I do horoscopes. Amusing, possible topic of conversation; but not something I'd actually trust to be right.
Click to expand...

Well, horoscopes are just stupid. Understanding the sexes and survival mechanisms each sex displays can be traced through thousands of years of evolution. You really think humans are so enlightened that they escaped the lizard brain that created instinctual patterns in most species? Its still there, underlying the more sophisticated reasoning centers in the cerebrum. And they still drive humans sexual attraction.


----------



## uhtred

On thing that sometimes isn't mentioned, is that not all men are into women who are into bad boys.


----------



## AandM

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, horoscopes are just stupid. Understanding the sexes and survival mechanisms each sex displays can be traced through thousands of years of evolution. You really think humans are so enlightened that they escaped the lizard brain that created instinctual patterns in most species? Its still there, underlying the more sophisticated reasoning centers in the cerebrum. And they still drive humans sexual attraction.


Sigh. You read too much into what I say. What I say is, you are citing a of crap study like the one you pinned your heart on (I'm _sure_ you read the original study, especially the setup of it) instead of Wired!. Your bias towards "science" that isn't replicable that confirms your preexisting biases is the problem I have with what you said.

Between EvoPsych hypotheses and horoscopes in the The Daily Rag, I'll take the horoscopes. They are less deliberately salacious.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

AandM said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, horoscopes are just stupid. Understanding the sexes and survival mechanisms each sex displays can be traced through thousands of years of evolution. You really think humans are so enlightened that they escaped the lizard brain that created instinctual patterns in most species? Its still there, underlying the more sophisticated reasoning centers in the cerebrum. And they still drive humans sexual attraction.
> 
> 
> 
> Sigh. You read too much into what I say. What I say is, you are citing a of crap study like the one you pinned your heart on (I'm _sure_ you read the original study, especially the setup of it) instead of Wired! or 50th hand from Chateau Heartiste. Your bias towards "science" that isn't replicable that confirms your pre-existing biases is the problem I have with what you said.
> 
> Between EvoPsych hypotheses and horoscopes in the The Daily Rag, I'll take the horoscopes. They are less deliberately salacious.
Click to expand...

What can I say, when you are wrong, you are wrong. You found one study where it didnt show any correlation, therefor the other dozens of surveys are irrelevant:



> UCLA researchers analyzed dozens of published and unpublished studies on how women’s preferences for mates change throughout the menstrual cycle. Their findings suggest that ovulating women have evolved to prefer mates who display sexy traits – such as a masculine body type and facial features, dominant behavior and certain scents – but not traits typically desired in long-term mates.
> 
> So, desires for those masculine characteristics, which are thought to have been markers of high genetic quality in our male ancestors, don’t last all month – just the few days in a woman’s cycle when she is most likely to pass on genes that, eons ago, might have increased the odds of her offspring surviving and reproducing.


----------



## ConanHub

I don't know about all those studies. I had a few ladies that just wanted some fun but most offered long term commitment, asking for marriage or to go away with me.

Mrs. Conan met me at the height of my bad boy days and held on to me for all she was worth.

All of them definitely were hot and ready for action but they had sex, not only for fun, but with meaning, trying to get a commitment and willing to give themselves to obtain a long term relationship or even marriage.

I have mostly never been treated like a disposable person or just a toy or fling by women who want to breed me and then find an effeminate and more passive man to settle down with.

I also think there is a difference between loser bad boys and bad boys who had goals, motivations and read Shakespeare.


----------



## AandM

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What can I say, when you are wrong, you are wrong. You found one study where it didnt show any correlation, therefor the other dozens of surveys are irrelevant:



****, man. I already posted the answer to this, but I guess it got lost in the ether (upsidedownworld11 knows a lot about the science behind the ether).

Anywho...

Citations, please. Or, at least some sort of a linka-dinka to the mass-market article you quoted from. Links or get the **** out.

Yeah, I'm wrong, because I am wrong. You quote an unsourced quote that is, at best from a popular "journalist" site that obviously mixes and matches various crap studies, sourced from other **** articles.

The experiment you vaguely reference, was not replicated. That doesn't mean that the hypothesis that the experiment was executed to test is wrong.

I get it. It's intoxicating. One of the best drugs in existence. Confirmation Bias.

More importantly, you don't seem able to understand what it means to replicate an experiment - as executed really is.


----------



## aine

I was into the sex, there I said it. 
The chemistry was off the charts for the first few years after marriage, only realized I had married a man-child when I realized I was earning more, much more responsible while he was still out partying with his friends and reluctant to help with the housework it caused so many fights.
I was aggressive, a go-getter, climbing up the corporate ladder, what a fool I was, I though love would conquer all.

If I could talk to my 20 something self I would tell her to run and look for a stable, dependable boring guy, my life would have turned out very differently.


----------



## uhtred

I think that there are different types of "bad boys" that can look similar at first glance.

Both types may not follow normal fashion trends. They may have strong opinions, or engage in dangerous activities, but there is a key difference:

The "competent" bad-boy has some really ability. He may engage in dangerous but highly skilled sports -skydiving, mountaineering, martial arts.. His opinions may be different, but they are based on true knowledge. He may not fit in with society, but he is able to *function* within that society - his job may be unconventional, but he is successful (not necessarily in money, but in getting what he wants out of life). When he has to, he's the one who runs into the burning building to save the child.

The "looser" bad-boy looks the same, but isn't. He takes stupid risks - drives drunk, gets into fights. He says whatever he wants to believe is true, rather than learning what is really true. He doesn't fit in and blames society for his own failures and constantly complains how the system is "rigged". He doesn't have a job, or has some low-level unskilled job he hates. He's the one who set the building on fire.


----------



## Laurentium

aine said:


> If I could talk to my 20 something self I would tell her to run and look for a stable, dependable boring guy, my life would have turned out very differently.



Do you think she would have listened?


----------



## Mr.Married

Andy1001 said:


> I bet he leaves the seat up in the bathroom too!!!


Rumor has it that he once filed for a tax extension ....


----------



## ConanHub

uhtred said:


> I think that there are different types of "bad boys" that can look similar at first glance.
> 
> Both types may not follow normal fashion trends. They may have strong opinions, or engage in dangerous activities, but there is a key difference:
> 
> The "competent" bad-boy has some really ability. He may engage in dangerous but highly skilled sports -skydiving, mountaineering, martial arts.. His opinions may be different, but they are based on true knowledge. He may not fit in with society, but he is able to *function* within that society - his job may be unconventional, but he is successful (not necessarily in money, but in getting what he wants out of life). When he has to, he's the one who runs into the burning building to save the child.
> 
> The "looser" bad-boy looks the same, but isn't. He takes stupid risks - drives drunk, gets into fights. He says whatever he wants to believe is true, rather than learning what is really true. He doesn't fit in and blames society for his own failures and constantly complains how the system is "rigged". He doesn't have a job, or has some low-level unskilled job he hates. He's the one who set the building on fire.


Thank you.


----------



## ConanHub

aine said:


> I was into the sex, there I said it.
> The chemistry was off the charts for the first few years after marriage, only realized I had married a man-child when I realized I was earning more, much more responsible while he was still out partying with his friends and reluctant to help with the housework it caused so many fights.
> I was aggressive, a go-getter, climbing up the corporate ladder, what a fool I was, I though love would conquer all.
> 
> If I could talk to my 20 something self I would tell her to run and look for a stable, dependable boring guy, my life would have turned out very differently.


Appreciate your honesty.

Now if he had been a bit more responsible and more of a climber?

James Spader, on the show Boston Legal, plays a bad boy.

I am quite a bit like him inside. He isn't that physical but he is absolutely a bad boy and successful and actually a good guy in a sinister way.


----------



## Elizabeth001

Laurentium said:


> Do you think she would have listened?




No...she wouldn’t have and I don’t think the opposite of the spectrum would have made her happy either. Middle ground is key 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## lucy999

uhtred said:


> I think that there are different types of "bad boys" that can look similar at first glance.
> 
> Both types may not follow normal fashion trends. They may have strong opinions, or engage in dangerous activities, but there is a key difference:
> 
> The "competent" bad-boy has some really ability. He may engage in dangerous but highly skilled sports -skydiving, mountaineering, martial arts.. His opinions may be different, but they are based on true knowledge. He may not fit in with society, but he is able to *function* within that society - his job may be unconventional, but he is successful (not necessarily in money, but in getting what he wants out of life). When he has to, he's the one who runs into the burning building to save the child.
> 
> The "looser" bad-boy looks the same, but isn't. He takes stupid risks - drives drunk, gets into fights. He says whatever he wants to believe is true, rather than learning what is really true. He doesn't fit in and blames society for his own failures and constantly complains how the system is "rigged". He doesn't have a job, or has some low-level unskilled job he hates. He's the one who set the building on fire.


Yes!!!!!! My husband was a bookie years ago. He worked in another country for a huge sports book (legally). Don't ask me why, but that is SUCH a turn on for me. He is the best father and human being. So kind. Excellent work ethic. But he shaves his head and looks like a bad ass. A couple of tattoos and a goatee. And he doesn't have a criminal record. A unicorn. I've taught him the art of spanking . And he's allllll mine!!!!


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

AandM said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What can I say, when you are wrong, you are wrong. You found one study where it didnt show any correlation, therefor the other dozens of surveys are irrelevant:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ****, man. I already posted the answer to this, but I guess it got lost in the ether (upsidedownworld11 knows a lot about the science behind the ether).
> 
> Anywho...
> 
> Citations, please. Or, at least some sort of a linka-dinka to the mass-market article you quoted from. Links or get the **** out.
> 
> Yeah, I'm wrong, because I am wrong. You quote an unsourced quote that is, at best from a popular "journalist" site that obviously mixes and matches various crap studies, sourced from other **** articles.
> 
> The experiment you vaguely reference, was not replicated. That doesn't mean that the hypothesis that the experiment was executed to test is wrong.
> 
> I get it. It's intoxicating. One of the best drugs in existence. Confirmation Bias.
> 
> More importantly, you don't seem able to understand what it means to replicate an experiment - as executed really is.
Click to expand...

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/what-do-women-want-depends-on-249813


----------



## personofinterest

Like I said....except for dysfunctional women, the bad boy stereotype is mainly touted by incels as their excuse for why no woman and bitter men as their excuse for why they pump and dump


----------



## AandM

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> What do women want? It depends on the time of the month | UCLA


Thank you. I'd like to point out that the above was a meta-study, meaning she analyzed data from previous studies. Note that it was published in 2014.



> Although we found no evidence that women’s masculinity preferences are linked to their hormonal status, our analyses do suggest that women show stronger preferences for masculine facial characteristics when assessing men’s attractiveness for short-term relationships than when assessing men’s attractiveness for long-term relationships. Although this pattern of results is consistent with the proposal that perceived costs associated with choosing a masculine mate cause women’s preferences for masculinity in long-term partners to be weaker than preferences for masculinity in short-term partners (Little et al., 2011), we emphasize here that the effect of relationship context on masculinity preference was small.
> 
> *In summary, and by contrast with previous research using smaller samples and less precise measures of hormonal status*, our analyses show no compelling evidence for links between women’s hormonal status and preferences for facial masculinity. These results highlight the importance of employing large sample sizes and rigorous assessments of hormonal status (e.g., measures of salivary hormone levels) to test hypotheses concerning links between hormonal status and mate preferences.


So to recap: bigger sample size and more precise hormonal measures, they found no link between ovulation and male facial preferences. They DID find that a link between desired relationship duration and 
perceived masculinity. Which is basically what many in this thread have said. Ladies in the club are looking for a different sort of man than ones who are looking for relationships - and that effect is small.

Paper here: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0956797618760197


----------



## Kay43

I wouldn’t want a bad boy. I think I may have went for it a bit when I was younger, but in hindsight the ones I went out with were idiots. I think part of it is sometimes those are the jealous type and for someone with lower self esteem that kind of makes you feel more desired when they get jealous. That’s just a personal opinion. Im older and sick of crap now, 40s. I want someone with a kind heart who DOESNT cheat. Someone who loves me for me and doesn’t try to change me or put me down all the time. As far as the appearance of bad boys. I think someone can look like that and still be good. I find the light facial hair, not thick beards, attractive, but it’s not a must. I never really did have a type. I’ve dated short, tall, thin and scrawny, heavy set, different races etc. So have been attracted to plenty of clean shaven men too. You just be you, she’ll come along when the timing is right.


----------



## Blondilocks

ConanHub said:


> Appreciate your honesty.
> 
> Now if he had been a bit more responsible and more of a climber?
> 
> James Spader, on the show Boston Legal, plays a bad boy.
> 
> I am quite a bit like him inside. He isn't that physical but he is absolutely a bad boy and successful and actually a good guy in a sinister way.


I am unable to view James Spader as anything other than a perv after Sex, Lies and Videotape. Plus, on Boston Legal he looked like the Pillsbury dough boy. That man is a total turn-off.


----------



## Steelman

The good women with "good souls" aren't out in bars all the time. The bar scene isn't a good representation of the population.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Mr.Married said:


> Sometimes you just have to take a different path :
> 
> Buy a white T-shirt and a black magic marker. Write the following on the shirt:
> 
> Hi I'm "enter name"
> 
> I'm looking for a good and decent woman.
> 
> I have a job , house, truck, and I'm STD free.
> 
> I'm divorced but never cheated on my woman.
> 
> They were out of puppies at the animal shelter, can I take you home instead?
> 
> 
> 
> It might not be traditional ...... but I can almost promise you will find a taker.


I get this, and novel approaches can work. 

Respectfully I'd say no to this in all but maybe a very specific environment or two.

Not for a bar or night club unless you're with your buds, because someone may try and make sport of you.

They'll be in the wrong, and in poor taste, but the tide may not flow as you'd expect. 

But you've got the right idea, find "you" and you'll do just fine, and have someone that wants to be with "you".

I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

You definitely have to find your true self and embrace it, not copy others although you can learn if they show you something that fits "you" but you haven't thought of in a while.

Like;

Certain men can't wear cowboy boots, or true boots, because they'll always be trying to "get used to them" if they haven't worn them all their lives.

They look out of place, and are easy to spot as such.

Some can't wear tight shirts. Some can.

Don't try to look like your ready to fight if you never have (I'm not condoning fighting) but have fought often as a young man and few times as an adult. 
But I'm against fighting. 

But taught my sons how early, and to never back down, and thet wear it well.

I was raised on a farm, but hot a college education to not have to work that hard, and have a good career.

Suits, and all that. 

But when I was serious about picking up women, jeans, boots, T shirt was the most profitable. 

Unless I was deep in a city business environment, then it was nice suit, well groomed. 

I got my pony tail cut after college, but kept longer hair, it seemed to work fine.

But I'd go full well mannered ******* at bars whenever I wanted to be serious about getting picked up, with an amazing success rate. 

Especially in a city if I just wanted a beer and wasn't really looking, in jeans and T shirt on purpose to clash with other suits.

T shirts and jeans are weekend staples for me unless the environment requires better dress. Being family man and all.

I can say scruffy works best. But one has to be financially successful and stable to fully be yourself, imho.

Otherwise you're all show, no go, and ltr chances with true keepers are nil.


----------



## BruceBanner

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Most of the women I know who were into "bad boys" or even "jocks" are divorcees. The ones who remarried did go for something more stable second time around
> 
> Such is the lament of the nice guy, as sometimes he waits to be discovered and appreciated.


Why would any "nice guy" settle for being plan B? Let those women stay with their "bad boys" is what I say.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

BruceBanner said:


> Why would any "nice guy" settle for being plan B? Let those women stay with their "bad boys" is what I say.


It may or may not be "settling." 

By definition, Plan B is what you go after when you can't get your first choice. 

One can wake up and realize their Plan A wasn't a good idea. So escaping that isn't going to Plan B so much as it is defining a new Plan A.

I personally know of at least two such occurrences, and in each case, the woman is, at least so far as I can tell from the outside, a totally devoted, faithful, loving, and appreciative wife. I daresay even more appreciative of her current situation than if she had married "nice guy" in the first place as she now knows his true value having been through a bad situation along the way. 

It's just like I said on the other thread about the woman with a rather unsavory sexual past: who is she now? That's all that matters. And if she's now got the wisdom and maturity to be a great wife, why deny yourself that? Grudges only hurt the ones who hold them.


----------



## personofinterest

Like I said, only bitter man who are not capable of intellect beyond generalization and sad incels insist on the "women want bad boys" mantra. They'd rather vilify women than look in the mirror or grow up and move past whatever jaded them.


----------



## personofinterest

personofinterest said:


> Like I said, only bitter man who are not capable of intellect beyond generalization and sad incels insist on the "women want bad boys" mantra. They'd rather vilify women than look in the mirror or grow up and move past whatever jaded them.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> Like I said, only bitter man who are not capable of intellect beyond generalization and sad incels insist on the "women want bad boys" mantra. They'd rather vilify women than look in the mirror or grow up and move past whatever jaded them.


I'd say most younger women like bad boys. Lets face it, nice guys are boring. They are steady, loyal and boring. The nice guy might do everything right and the bad boy may land you in jail, steal your credit cards and cheat on you. But the bad boys give the ladies the dopamine hits they crave atleast until they want a family and that jazz. Thats when Billy Beta comes swooping down in his white cape.


----------



## uhtred

But are women "settling" or are they "recognizing their mistake"?

I think in many cases they *think* they want a bad-boy, and discover that in reality what they got was "bad". The movie version of the ex-con, biker with a heart of gold may make for great Hollywood stories, but the reality that the ex-con is likely still a criminal, and a violent criminal guy is likely to his romantic partner as well, makes the relationship a lot less fun.

The "boring" nice guy often turns out to be a lot more interesting that it seems, despite his lack of tattoos and felony convictions. Spending the day sailing with the nice guy on his boat turns out to be more fun than spending a day getting bail money for the bad-boy

There are of course nice guys who are completely boring, and there may be bad-boy ex-cons with a heart of gold, but the odds don't favor that. 





BruceBanner said:


> Why would any "nice guy" settle for being plan B? Let those women stay with their "bad boys" is what I say.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

uhtred said:


> But are women "settling" or are they "recognizing their mistake"?
> 
> I think in many cases they *think* they want a bad-boy, and discover that in reality what they got was "bad". The movie version of the ex-con, biker with a heart of gold may make for great Hollywood stories, but the reality that the ex-con is likely still a criminal, and a violent criminal guy is likely to his romantic partner as well, makes the relationship a lot less fun.
> 
> The "boring" nice guy often turns out to be a lot more interesting that it seems, despite his lack of tattoos and felony convictions. Spending the day sailing with the nice guy on his boat turns out to be more fun than spending a day getting bail money for the bad-boy
> 
> There are of course nice guys who are completely boring, and there may be bad-boy ex-cons with a heart of gold, but the odds don't favor that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BruceBanner said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why would any "nice guy" settle for being plan B? Let those women stay with their "bad boys" is what I say.
Click to expand...

I think its the nice guy without boats that may have a harder time haha.


----------



## personofinterest

Eh, a man worth having doesn't complain about bad boys.


----------



## uhtred

Even with out boats, airplanes and vacations to Bora Bora, a walk in the city park with the nice guy is still a lot more fun than getting bail money for the bad-boy. 

I think dysfunctional lives are less good than boring lives. Dis-functional is only exciting in movies. 





UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think its the nice guy without boats that may have a harder time haha.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

uhtred said:


> Even with out boats, airplanes and vacations to Bora Bora, a walk in the city park with the nice guy is still a lot more fun than getting bail money for the bad-boy.
> 
> I think dysfunctional lives are less good than boring lives. Dis-functional is only exciting in movies.


And yet there are people who constantly create or surround themselves with drama.


----------



## BruceBanner

Ignore this post.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

uhtred said:


> Even with out boats, airplanes and vacations to Bora Bora, a walk in the city park with the nice guy is still a lot more fun than getting bail money for the bad-boy.
> 
> I think dysfunctional lives are less good than boring lives. Dis-functional is only exciting in movies.


I go out and do crazy and sometimes dangerous things on my own. Keep the safety at home. I keep the dysfunction in my heart and mind safely away from my loved ones as much as I can. Gotta find that balance you know?


----------



## southbound

All women may not want the bad boy, but it seems that nobody wants the family man who acts like the Brady Bunch dad either. Oddly, when I was growing up, I always thought that was the kind of man a mature, family oriented woman wanted. Boy was I wrong.


----------



## personofinterest

I can tell you that NO woman wants the whiny bitter man who judges ALL women by his ex.

JS


----------



## alte Dame

The look of the bad boy is attractive, in my opinion.

But the dumbass intellect and behavior is not at all attractive.

Go figure. My eyes tell me one thing. My brain tells me another.

When I was younger I was smart enough to dump the bad boys that I dated. I had a feeling that there would never be a long term anything with them. I thought at the time that I was just reacting to who they were. Now I know that I was reacting to who I am.


----------



## Blondilocks

I think it's safe to say that most girls would have rather dated The Fonz than Richie Cunningham. Something about leather and motorcycles when girls are young. That and pissing dad off.


----------



## personofinterest

Blondilocks said:


> I think it's safe to say that most girls would have rather dated The Fonz than Richie Cunningham. Something about leather and motorcycles when girls are young. That and pissing dad off.


But see...was the font really a bad boy? He had a job, was polite to Mrs. Cunningham, paid his rent, stood up for his friends.

He had a "style," but I don't think he was a bad boy.


----------



## southbound

personofinterest said:


> Blondilocks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it's safe to say that most girls would have rather dated The Fonz than Richie Cunningham. Something about leather and motorcycles when girls are young. That and pissing dad off.
> 
> 
> 
> But see...was the font really a bad boy? He had a job, was polite to Mrs. Cunningham, paid his rent, stood up for his friends.
> 
> He had a "style," but I don't think he was a bad boy.
Click to expand...

He was a former bad boy who had matured and changed his true bad boy ways, but still retained some bad boy characteristics that he applied from time to time in a more mature fashion. Basically, he was a good guy that was cool. I always thought one could be cool without being a bad boy.


----------



## uhtred

Agree 100%. I don't remember him doing anything actually bad. 

Its sort of like the movies of the ex con with a heart of gold. We don't seem him doing a driveby and maiming some kids. We don't the effects of drugs he smuggled, etc. All we see are prison tattoos and a tough attitude - but not the actual bad stuff. 




personofinterest said:


> But see...was the font really a bad boy? He had a job, was polite to Mrs. Cunningham, paid his rent, stood up for his friends.
> 
> He had a "style," but I don't think he was a bad boy.


----------



## personofinterest

uhtred said:


> Agree 100%. I don't remember him doing anything actually bad.
> 
> Its sort of like the movies of the ex con with a heart of gold. We don't seem him doing a driveby and maiming some kids. We don't the effects of drugs he smuggled, etc. All we see are prison tattoos and a tough attitude - but not the actual bad stuff.


So you're saying that the Fonz was also smuggling drugs, murdering, raping....we just didn't see it. And Mrs. Cunningham was fine with that....


Yeah, not so much. But nice try


----------



## Deejo

Here ya go ...

Women like Cads for Sex, Dads for Mating


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> Here ya go ...
> 
> Women like Cads for Sex, Dads for Mating


BS generalizations


----------



## Deejo

personofinterest said:


> BS generalizations


Study performed by a social psychologist at the University of Michigan, and findings published to the journal Nature.

All telling us what we already knew.

Generalizations? I'm curious why you would find actual research validating a commonly held belief as 'generalizations'?

Article written by a PhD referencing other studies by other PhD's 
Nice Guys or Bad Boys: What do Women Want?

I'm not trying to convince you of anything ... other than calling the topic and details backing it up, as little more than opinion and generalizations, doesn't seem accurate.


----------



## Deejo

I want to be more clear here. 

My interest in the topic is more amusing than conviction. I literally made a recent post, where I said to my wife; "I was much cooler when I was single." And she agreed! Yet at the same time, we now have a home, effectively 2 families, kids that love each other, and domestic responsibilities that run between the two of us to make this endeavor successful and fulfilling.

I was never a 'bad boy', but I definitely had a bit more edge than I do as the guy who picks up and drops off kids, does laundry, helps clean the house, and cooks 50% of the time. And let me be very clear, my wife LOVES that I do those things. 

But from a pure, early, short-term attraction perspective, I was indeed more interesting when I was the guy who traveled all over the world and helped companies solve problems ... which I opted out of, all in the name of building my relationship and life, to incorporate the woman to whom I'm now married.

She loves the goof ball, domesticated dad that knows not to put her jeans in the dryer.

She became attracted to, and decided to get jiggy with a guy who initially (in the first months of our relationship) presented very differently.

So like the second article indicates, and again, I don't think it's a surprise to anyone, women want both, and ideally, they want it in a singular man.


----------



## NobodySpecial

The problem is with the lingo. Like a person can't be attractive, fun, and edgy without being "bad" or "cad". Or that a "dad" can't be a dad without being a puss.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> The problem is with the lingo. Like a person can't be attractive, fun, and edgy without being "bad" or "cad". Or that a "dad" can't be a dad without being a puss.


 Exactly. It's so ridiculous Li bi nary you cannot possibly take it seriously, study or no study.


----------



## Deejo

I'm trying to determine if your distaste for the notion is an actual belief that this is factually inaccurate, or just factually inaccurate for you?

I mean, cmon' you haven't read or seen the Twilight stories?

Seen a James Bond movie?

Familiar with Giacomo Casanova?

Charlie Sheen?

Hugh Hefner?

Rock star of your choice?

I'm not saying the trope is a good or a bad thing ... but it's a trope for a reason.

I don't believe "All women want bad boys."

The original poster made a declaration about his observations out in the wild and based on his experience, are you saying you don't believe him, or you don't believe that a substantial number of women (not all, I'm sure not saying all) at some point ... either want, or want to try and tame the guy that makes and lives by his own rules and whom a future with likely has train wreck written all over it?

I'm relatively confident that a vast majority of guys, and many of the women here can relate to you a story about someone they know, who played out this well worn tale. 

I get that you may not like when people refer in absolutes that aren't absolute ... but at the same time, it definitely doesn't meet the criteria of (paraphrasing) 'Nobody being able to possibly take it seriously'.

I hope that mess almost makes sense, without being condescending. That's certainly not what I'm going for.


----------



## uhtred

In what way was the Fonz a "bad boy" other than riding a motorcycle, and wearing a leather jacket (which is generally a good idea if you are riding a motorcycle)? I didn't watch the show - what "bad" things did he do? 

Maybe there is no agreement on what "bad boy" means. To me it means someone who does "bad" things, not just a style choice. Maybe women are just attracted to the style, not the actions? 

My namesake Uhtred in the books was in fact a "bad boy" = but he murdered and stole and sometimes betrayed with abandon. The author just decided that (improbably) he didn't rape. I doubt any real women would have been into him, except for protection from others like him. 




personofinterest said:


> So you're saying that the Fonz was also smuggling drugs, murdering, raping....we just didn't see it. And Mrs. Cunningham was fine with that....
> 
> 
> Yeah, not so much. But nice try


----------



## uhtred

I sometimes wonder if Hollywood create the bad-boy as attractive concept, maybe as an alternative to the traditional "prince charming". I think they created a mythical bad-boy that doesn't match reality. (With James Bond as a great example - that really isn't what working in intelligence services is like I suspect).


----------



## personofinterest

I'm saying it has been my observation in real life and across various forums that the only males who insist women won't badboys are either males that can't get a date or males who have been burned and assume all women are bad. No healthy male I know believes that all women want badboys.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> I'm trying to determine if your distaste for the notion is an actual belief that this is factually inaccurate, or just factually inaccurate for you?


Whom are you talking to?


----------



## Deejo

The Fonz jumped a shark on water skis, while wearing his leather jacket. What more can we ask of a man?

WTF, are we qualifying bad boy as criminal? Like Ted Bundy criminal?


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> Whom are you talking to?


I suppose you and POI. Sometimes I forget how this online thing works.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> I suppose you and POI. Sometimes I forget how this online thing works.


I don't think the notion is wrong. It is the case that many women don't wet in the knickers for Ward Cleaver. But the wording is off AFAIC. Bad boy just doesn't describe it well.


----------



## farsidejunky

personofinterest said:


> I'm saying it has been my observation in real life and across various forums that the only males who insist women won't badboys are either males that can't get a date or males who have been burned and assume all women are bad. No healthy male I know believes that all women want badboys.


Ahem... Fairly healthy male here.

All women? Nope.

Common enough to always take it into consideration? You're damn right.

Refusing to accept the notion doesn't make it any less true.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Deejo

personofinterest said:


> I'm saying it has been my observation in real life and across various forums that the only males who insist women won't badboys are either males that can't get a date or males who have been burned and assume all women are bad. No healthy male I know believes that all women want badboys.


Ah, thanks.
I dont disagree with that. But on the other side of the script I can tell you that I know several women personally, who either threw away or betrayed their stable, traditional male partners, to take a walk on the wild side.


----------



## farsidejunky

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't think the notion is wrong. It is the case that many women don't wet in the knickers for Ward Cleaver. But the wording is off AFAIC. Bad boy just doesn't describe it well.


How about the term "edge"?

By my nature, I gravitate toward being a nice guy who acquiesces to others. At one time that was in an unhealthy way...since reformed. 

Within reason, the more edge I have, the more my wife naturally gravitates towards me. I say within reason because just like anything it can be overdone.

Growing up, I can't count how many times I was passed over for the bad boy...or edgy one if that's the language you prefer.

The only time in my life I have ever been in demand by multiple women was when I was fresh from a divorce I did not want and was taking my hurt out on them.

I am not suggesting all women are like this. But to say that no women (or even a very slim minority) are like this is every bit as ignorant as trying to suggest that all are.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

farsidejunky said:


> How about the term "edge"?


It is the word I used. I like it.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't think the notion is wrong. It is the case that many women don't wet in the knickers for Ward Cleaver. But the wording is off AFAIC. Bad boy just doesn't describe it well.


I agree here too.

Unavailable, risky, unpredictable, exciting, non-conforming, bold, non-committal, independent, rebellious, arrogant, dangerous. 

That word salad tends to be the lines that I think along. Bad boy is a lot easier type.


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm saying it has been my observation in real life and across various forums that the only males who insist women won't badboys are either males that can't get a date or males who have been burned and assume all women are bad. No healthy male I know believes that all women want badboys.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, thanks.
> I dont disagree with that. But on the other side of the script I can tell you that I know several women personally, who either threw away or betrayed their stable, traditional male partners, to take a walk on the wild side.
Click to expand...

No offence, but it's not very reasonable to generalize to most women based on a few women's character flaws.


----------



## Deejo

farsidejunky said:


> How about the term "edge"?


Like.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> I agree here too.
> 
> Unavailable, risky, unpredictable, *exciting*, *non-conforming*, *bold*, non-committal, *independent*, rebellious, arrogant, dangerous.
> 
> That word salad tends to be the lines that I think along. Bad boy is a lot easier type.


I know this much hated word pisses a lot of men off. How about confident?


----------



## Deejo

personofinterest said:


> No offence, but it's not very reasonable to generalize to most women based on a few women's character flaws.


I'm not offended. But it smacks a bit that you are laying this entire concept at the feet of socially awkward men who can't keep a womans interest, and a handful of women with character flaws. Anecdotally, and according to those rag medical publications, I think there's a lot more to it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> I'm not offended. But it smacks a bit that you are laying this entire concept at the feet of socially awkward men who can't keep a womans interest, and a handful of women with character flaws. Anecdotally, and according to those rag medical publications, I think there's a lot more to it.


I don't see the desire to desire your man is a character flaw.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Although a mix, of movies and actors' names that may conjure up the Hollywood promoted bad boy images, here's list.

These movies and actors perhaps are snap shots of what some women liked to see.

My memory isn't the best on these, which is why a mix of actors/movies.

All may form an image in their mind of the man and circumstances better than I could describe 😁.

And not in absolute date sorted list.

If others want to add to the list, perhaps an overall picture of what falls into the pretty wide category can be developed. 

Maybe, the widely varying interpretation of who thinks what is a bad boy. Tastes vary widely. 

This is about roles in movies, not about the actors themselves.

Starting from way back:

West Side Story
Marlin Brando
Maltese Falcon
Patrick Swayze Dirty Dancing
Steve McQueen
John Wayne
Robert Downey jr.
Sylvester Stallone 
Jimmy Cagney
Sean Connery 
Johnny Depp
Humphrey Bogart 
Mark Wahlberg 
Jeremy Renner
Rebel Without A Cause
Fight Club Brad Pitt


----------



## uhtred

What is an example of a real live "bad boy" that someone finds attactive. Maybe that gives a better idea than fantasy movie characters.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

That is the objective. I do believe the movies have helped create the images desired in real life.

Though the movies rarely show the true impact of bad plus irresponsible persons so to speak.

Imho the exame of a desirable rw bad boy will vary from person to person.

So, the example question is thrown out for responses?

I believe some have been touched on in earlie responses in this thread, but scattered out.


----------



## Deejo

uhtred said:


> What is an example of a real live "bad boy" that someone finds attactive. Maybe that gives a better idea than fantasy movie characters.


Charlie Sheen for sure.

James Dean or Brando if talking about a throw-back.

For contrast? Jimmy Stewart ... not a bad boy.


----------



## uhtred

Are those bad boys, or are the characters they play bad boys (eg Hollywood fantasy). 

Didn't the real (not movie) Charlie Sheen have drug and alcohol problems along with beating one girlfriend and "accidentally" shooting another? Is the *real* person attractive to women?








Deejo said:


> Charlie Sheen for sure.
> 
> James Dean or Brando if talking about a throw-back.
> 
> For contrast? Jimmy Stewart ... not a bad boy.


----------



## Deejo

uhtred said:


> Are those bad boys, or are the characters they play bad boys (eg Hollywood fantasy).
> 
> Didn't the real (not movie) Charlie Sheen have drug and alcohol problems along with beating one girlfriend and "accidentally" shooting another? Is the *real* person attractive to women?


Click the link and you tell me. Charlie Sheen is NEVER going to have an issue with attracting a woman. Anyone is free to judge what kind of woman I suppose, but the fact remains ... women dug him 30 + years ago, and women dig him today.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> Are those bad boys, or are the characters they play bad boys (eg Hollywood fantasy).
> 
> Didn't the real (not movie) Charlie Sheen have drug and alcohol problems along with beating one girlfriend and "accidentally" shooting another? Is the *real* person attractive to women?


Apparently some given the people he dated as evidenced by the link.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

uhtred said:


> What is an example of a real live "bad boy" that someone finds attactive. Maybe that gives a better idea than fantasy movie characters.


I know one in real life... ex Army ranger; heavily tatted biker; defender of biker rights, women and the underdog. And he is omg drop dead sexy. > But not the kind most of us would marry!


----------



## OnTheFly

Deejo said:


> Charlie Sheen for sure.


That link left out Corey Haim and the underage daughter of Heather Locklear.

Check out youtube channel Jamie DLux for further info on Hollywood pedos.


----------



## NobodySpecial

3Xnocharm said:


> I know one in real life... ex Army ranger; heavily tatted biker; defender of biker rights, women and the underdog. And he is omg drop dead sexy. > *But not the kind most of us would marry!*


Why not?


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> 3Xnocharm said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know one in real life... ex Army ranger; heavily tatted biker; defender of biker rights, women and the underdog. And he is omg drop dead sexy. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_devil.png" border="0" alt="" title="Devil" ></a> *But not the kind most of us would marry!*
> 
> 
> 
> Why not?
Click to expand...

Exactly. My hubby has tattoos and has been in a fight or two (years ago). He's an awesome husband.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. My hubby has tattoos and has been in a fight or two (years ago). He's an awesome husband.


Sexy AND defender of the underdog? I'm in.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

NobodySpecial said:


> Why not?


A bit too much violence that leads to a bit too much bailing out of jail, for most of us :wink2:




NobodySpecial said:


> Sexy AND defender of the underdog? I'm in.


Right? Other than the above.. le*sigh*...


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Now we're getting somewhere.

It is a difficult thing to neatly put in a box.


----------



## uhtred

Yea, I guess you are right. OTOH, he also paid something like $500K on hookers.

Still, you point holds, some women really are into actual bad boys




NobodySpecial said:


> Apparently some given the people he dated as evidenced by the link.


----------



## uhtred

So... what is it about motorcycles? Riding a motorcycle seems to provide massive "sexy bad boy" points. But it has to be the right sort - a Harley, no Japanese bike (even though the japanese bike is far higher performance). Interesting.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

uhtred said:


> So... what is it about motorcycles? Riding a motorcycle seems to provide massive "sexy bad boy" points. But it has to be the right sort - a Harley, no Japanese bike (even though the japanese bike is far higher performance). Interesting.


Haha god NO on the crotch rockets, at least to me they have ZERO sex appeal! I cant even explain what it is about HD's and the men that ride them.. maybe because the bikes themselves are similar to those men. They are loud, and beefy, and beautiful to look at LOL! I think classic sport cars are sexy too, with their big loud engines and pipes, and the curves and chrome..


----------



## BioFury

uhtred said:


> So... what is it about motorcycles? Riding a motorcycle seems to provide massive "sexy bad boy" points. But it has to be the right sort - a Harley, no Japanese bike (even though the japanese bike is far higher performance). Interesting.


I think that's just the older generation.

The Harley style of bike couldn't be more obnoxious in my estimation. They sound like an incessant fart. Besides having a high bark to bite ratio.

Try doing this on a Harley:


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> Still, you point holds, some women really are into actual *bad boys*


That's not actually MY point at all.


----------



## Blondilocks

BioFury said:


> I think that's just the older generation.
> 
> The Harley style of bike couldn't be more obnoxious in my estimation. They sound like an incessant fart. Besides having a high bark to bite ratio.
> 
> Try doing this on a Harley:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WrtWGyhUvw


Does this clip ever end?


----------



## NobodySpecial

3Xnocharm said:


> Haha god NO on the crotch rockets, at least to me they have ZERO sex appeal! I cant even explain what it is about HD's and the men that ride them.. maybe because the bikes themselves are similar to those men. They are loud, and beefy, and beautiful to look at LOL! I think classic sport cars are sexy too, with their big loud engines and pipes, and the curves and chrome..


Blech. Men who are into vehicles as self expression are a no to me regardless of the vehicle. Hairy bikers? No. Except the defender of the underdog you mentioned. He gets a pass. And loud? No.


----------



## Blondilocks

Deejo said:


> The Fonz jumped a shark on water skis, while wearing his leather jacket. What more can we ask of a man?
> 
> WTF, are we qualifying bad boy as criminal? Like Ted Bundy criminal?


Thanks a lot, Deejo! After over 30 years, I had actually managed to erase that image from my memory bank. Now, I remember it all - including the boots.:crying:

This scene is what spawned the phrase 'jumping the shark' to signal it's time for a show to get off the air.


----------



## Deejo

Blondilocks said:


> Thanks a lot, Deejo! After over 30 years, I had actually managed to erase that image from my memory bank. Now, I remember it all - including the boots.:crying:
> 
> This scene is what spawned the phrase 'jumping the shark' to signal it's time for a show to get off the air.


I watched the aired episode. Also watched him have a showdown with an alien. Gotta hand it to him. The Fonz had adventures.


----------



## personofinterest

Deejo said:


> I watched the aired episode. Also watched him have a showdown with an alien. Gotta hand it to him. The Fonz had adventures.


Nanoo Nanoo


----------



## Deejo

personofinterest said:


> Nanoo Nanoo


Thats the one. 


Reread this thread. Did the OP disappear about 10 pages ago?

I suppose to sum up over all, and particularly in my own case, my advice is, find your own edges, and hone them. First real date with my wife was a visit to the Museum of Fine Arts. After that date we got some lunch and started having 'the conversation' about what we were looking for, wants, don't wants, etc.
To this day, she will point out that what I said to her on that date, endeared me to her. We were at the museum for about 2 hours. She was mostly quiet, reserved, not a lot of banter. I asked her if she wanted to get food after, to give her an easy out. I was surprised she agreed. So when we were eating, I said to her; 

"I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I'm trying to decide if you have some walls in place, or you're just a b!tch."

I had determined that I didn't want to waste my time, or hers. It was an honest question, not one meant to be cute. I figured it would open up a dialogue, or we'd pay the check and start looking for new dates. I'm definitely not saying this makes me a bad boy. But, I was being honest, and it wasn't a question intended to 'win' her over. I wanted to know if this was going to be worth exploring. We were both multi-dating at the time. Needless to say, we didn't clear the tab and then go our separate ways.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Thats the one.
> 
> 
> Reread this thread. Did the OP disappear about 10 pages ago?
> 
> I suppose to sum up over all, and particularly in my own case, my advice is, find your own edges, and hone them. First real date with my wife was a visit to the Museum of Fine Arts. After that date we got some lunch and started having 'the conversation' about what we were looking for, wants, don't wants, etc.
> To this day, she will point out that what I said to her on that date, endeared me to her. We were at the museum for about 2 hours. She was mostly quiet, reserved, not a lot of banter. I asked her if she wanted to get food after, to give her an easy out. I was surprised she agreed. So when we were eating, I said to her;
> 
> "I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I'm trying to decide if you have some walls in place, or you're just a b!tch."


Straight up.



> I had determined that I didn't want to waste my time, or hers. It was an honest question, not one meant to be cute. I figured it would open up a dialogue, or we'd pay the check and start looking for new dates. I'm definitely not saying this makes me a bad boy. But, I was being honest, and it wasn't a question intended to 'win' her over. I wanted to know if this was going to be worth exploring. We were both multi-dating at the time. Needless to say, we didn't clear the tab and then go our separate ways.


Be yourself. Be Unabashedly, unashamedly YOURSELF. DON'T NEED to win her over, forget about not appearing to "try" to win her over.


----------



## uhtred

Sorry, lost in who is responding to what. 

Someone had commented that despite being a bad-boy in the negative way (alcohol, drugs, beating women etc), Charlie Sheen was apparently attractive to many women. (which I dno't get at all). (or maybe he just had $$$)



NobodySpecial said:


> That's not actually MY point at all.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> Sorry, lost in who is responding to what.
> 
> Someone had commented that despite being a bad-boy in the negative way (alcohol, drugs, beating women etc), Charlie Sheen was apparently attractive to many women. (which I dno't get at all). (or maybe he just had $$$)


Never mind. It is not important.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Sexy AND defender of the underdog? I'm in.


I tell ya, I still pinch myself sometimes.


----------



## Blondilocks

Deejo said:


> I watched the aired episode. Also watched him have a showdown with an alien. Gotta hand it to him. The Fonz had adventures.


Yeah, but the vision of him in motorcycle jacket, swim trunks & boots took him from hot to not. Let that be a lesson guys - when your gal tells you that you look like a nerd, believe it.


----------



## sa58

Some of us motorcycle riders just ride for fun.
We are not into self expression just the fun and 
freedom of riding. Many of us older guys.and ladies
who ride what would be called a cruiser, or touring bikes.
Some of my friends even ride trikes. None are hairy
some are grandfathers like me. Wives ride with us.

Many women I know ride very big bikes also. They are not 
bad girls,although a couple can handle themselves really well.
i would not mess with them either. Doesn't make them bad boys
or bad girls, just ordinary people having fun. 

Bad boys or bad girls no body likes boring and predictable.
Kinda like meatloaf on Tuesday LOL

I look at life as a one time chance.
I am trying to have as big a blast as I can.
Just don't want to kill myself in the process.


----------



## Uriel

It’s the fantasy of being taken with respect, protected by a wild force…vulnerable.

The Biker, Construction Worker, Cowboy, etc… It’s simply Lancelot and Guinevere (Arthur was a busy man)…a fantasy no more no less. Women want “Chivalry” in the rawest form (with respect mind you).

Harley Davidson, today’s biker is a costume…a RUB, rich urban biker. HD changed their marketing strategy in the 1990’s targeting; Male/age 40+/married/w-children. They created the weekend biker…most married hot women love this. It’s a costume ball on Saturday afternoon, maybe an overnight. It’s being able to scare the **** out of yourself, or at least pretending to. 

You don’t have to ride a motorcycle or dress a certain way to be a Biker/Cowboy/etc… It’s different, kind of lawless, you live your morals and follow your code. The baby face has nothing to do with it…young Mob men did not ride motorcycles. Cadillacs yes 

I’m old now and wise, women want the man’s man every now and then. They also want the urban life style…they want so much, they forgot what they wanted in the first place.

I say don’t worry about be yourself…this makes you the badass/badboy, whatever the hell. But if your married give your wife the fantasy from time to time, take her away for weekends now and then, Romance with a twist of danger (not the same old ****), and most certainly always with Respect. And then go back to work.


----------



## uhtred

Some women *like* nerds. I'm not changing in any case. 



Blondilocks said:


> Yeah, but the vision of him in motorcycle jacket, swim trunks & boots took him from hot to not. Let that be a lesson guys - when your gal tells you that you look like a nerd, believe it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> Some women *like* nerds. I'm not changing in any case.


Own it you bad mo fo.


----------



## tech-novelist

personofinterest said:


> I'm saying it has been my observation in real life and across various forums that the only males who insist women won't badboys are either males that can't get a date or males who have been burned and assume all women are bad. No healthy male I know believes that all women want badboys.


I haven't generally had too much trouble getting dates, and I'm now happily married.

And I believe that virtually all women react positively in a sexual way to men who appear to be dominant with respect to other men.


----------



## tech-novelist

personofinterest said:


> Exactly. My hubby has tattoos and has been in a fight or two (years ago). He's an awesome husband.


So you are a personal example of a woman who likes edgy men.


----------



## tech-novelist

Deejo said:


> Thats the one.
> 
> 
> Reread this thread. Did the OP disappear about 10 pages ago?
> 
> I suppose to sum up over all, and particularly in my own case, my advice is, find your own edges, and hone them. First real date with my wife was a visit to the Museum of Fine Arts. After that date we got some lunch and started having 'the conversation' about what we were looking for, wants, don't wants, etc.
> To this day, she will point out that what I said to her on that date, endeared me to her. We were at the museum for about 2 hours. She was mostly quiet, reserved, not a lot of banter. I asked her if she wanted to get food after, to give her an easy out. I was surprised she agreed. So when we were eating, I said to her;
> 
> "I'm having a hard time getting a read on you. I'm trying to decide if you have some walls in place, or you're just a b!tch."
> 
> I had determined that I didn't want to waste my time, or hers. It was an honest question, not one meant to be cute. I figured it would open up a dialogue, or we'd pay the check and start looking for new dates. I'm definitely not saying this makes me a bad boy. But, I was being honest, and it wasn't a question intended to 'win' her over. I wanted to know if this was going to be worth exploring. We were both multi-dating at the time. Needless to say, we didn't clear the tab and then go our separate ways.


That's actually a very good game maneuver. You made her explain herself to you, which is a turn-on for many women, just as being obsequious is a turn-off for many women.


----------



## Blondilocks

tech-novelist said:


> That's actually a very good game maneuver. You made her explain herself to you, which is a turn-on for many women, just as being obsequious is a turn-off for many women.


Unless she was suffering from a migraine or just hadn't warmed up to him, yet. Then, she could just as easily have called him an ass and left. Which when you think about it, he was.


----------



## heartsbeating

dennisg1 said:


> I've been hanging out with a new friend I made and his friends, since they're all single. They're cool guys but just a different look than me. They're more of sleeve tattoos, beard, rugged look type of guys and I'm more of clean cut, no tattoos, and I always get that I have a baby/handsome type of face. I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul. Lol. These guys also don't have the most stable jobs or set careers either.
> 
> That being said I have no issue hanging out with them because we always have a good time when we're out; however, I notice they always get hit on and have much better luck picking up women. This is in real life and also on dating apps; which they have shown me. These women would be in there late 20s early/mid 30s range and have good careers.
> 
> Are women always attracted to the bad boys?
> 
> I can see this being very attractive to women who are still in college / younger but I thought women in their late 20s early/mid 30s would want something more stable and long term; not a guy that is in it for the short term and just jumping around. It almost makes me want to grow a beard and get sleeve tattoos! Lol.


I'm with the others who said this is more about appearance/fashion than being a bad boy. What the hell is a bad boy (when older), anyway?

Recently I was out with a group of women and appearance wise, we have different priorities. They had botox, fake boobs, groomed to the nines. One was genuinely curious why I didn't have botox (for the emerging wrinkles on my forehead). This is not my core group of friends but I can understand how the influences among peers can take shape, one way or the other. I also experienced their vulnerable, and fun side, and we all had a blast. Maybe you're just feeling the group influence in contrast to how you have formed your identity. 

My husband kinda looks like Dave Grohl, if Grohl worked corporate rather than a rock band. He does have a tattoo, slightly long hair, beard, walks to the beat of his own drum. And it's not just about the look, it's his character and conviction that I find most appealing.


----------



## heartsbeating

dennisg1 said:


> I even had this bartender the other day tell me she can tell I have a good soul.


...so she was either just paying you a compliment, because she's that way inclined.

Or she was flirting with your clean-cut self. How did you respond?


----------



## Elizabeth001

I think it’s more about attitude. 

Dress? A potato sack? It’s more about how you wear it. 

Confidence is everything. 

ETA: if the Fonze dressed like Ritchie, he would still be cool because he would know how to wear it 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

Darn right there. I'm so edgy that I think Mystique was the best character in the last X-men movies. I play D&D and Kerbal, haven't been in a flight since I was 12, and the only guns I've used fired electrons. I am a nerd among nerds, and I certainly wouldn't change that to get women. 







NobodySpecial said:


> Own it you bad mo fo.


----------



## farsidejunky

Blondilocks said:


> Unless she was suffering from a migraine or just hadn't warmed up to him, yet. Then, she could just as easily have called him an ass and left. Which when you think about it, he was.


In that case, it would have been best for all parties concerned.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## heartsbeating

farsidejunky said:


> How about the term "edge"?
> 
> By my nature, I gravitate toward being a nice guy who acquiesces to others. At one time that was in an unhealthy way...since reformed.
> 
> Within reason, the more edge I have, the more my wife naturally gravitates towards me. I say within reason because just like anything it can be overdone.


Yeah, I get the appeal of edge. Its meaning is no doubt ambiguous.

To me, edge can be positive and congruent. It can manifest itself as qualities that are giving and generous.


----------



## Ed3n

Personally, I have never felt the urge to date the bad boy type. I'm much more attracted to emotionally secure, mentally stable men, who don't act like children. I raised two kids, and never had the desire to "raise" a grown man, and teach him how to behave in public, or pay their bills because they were too lazy to work, or hold a job for more than a month. 

My husband has a dual Masters Degree (education and history), is a crew leader at work, teaches night classes at the local college. He has rarely been unkind, and doesn't tend lean towards being emotionally needy, or jealous. It's worked for 20+ years so far, so I think we're a good fit.


----------



## Diana7

Ed3n said:


> Personally, I have never felt the urge to date the bad boy type. I'm much more attracted to emotionally secure, mentally stable men, who don't act like children. I raised two kids, and never had the desire to "raise" a grown man, and teach him how to behave in public, or pay their bills because they were too lazy to work, or hold a job for more than a month.
> 
> My husband has a dual Masters Degree (education and history), is a crew leader at work, teaches night classes at the local college. He has rarely been unkind, and doesn't tend lean towards being emotionally needy, or jealous. It's worked for 20+ years so far, so I think we're a good fit.


Absolutely, I am with you on this. I have no interest in a man who thinks its ok to break the law, or take drugs, drink too much, is covered in tattoos, or doesn't work, is irresponsible, immature and disrespectful of authority. 

My husband too has no 'issues', has a degree in microbiology and PHD in chemical engineering, no jealousy, lets the past stay in the past, forgives easily, is respectful of others, is easy going, has masses of integrity, self control and strong values. These were the things that attracted me to him, his character and decency, his maturity. I wouldn't look twice at a bad boy, not worth wasting time on.


----------



## NobodySpecial

I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.


It can be but not always. Just think of programmes on TV about jails, nearly all inmates have loads of tattoos. I don't like them at all myself, and am so glad that my husband doesn't have any.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.


 I only have 2 tattoos, so I can drive the getaway car. I'm sure our resident expert is now questioning my salvation lol


----------



## wild jade

Deejo said:


> I watched the aired episode. Also watched him have a showdown with an alien. Gotta hand it to him. The Fonz had adventures.


And that's just it. Women don't like bad boys. Women like interesting boys who they can adventure with.

At least that's what this woman likes.

Fonzie was never bad. He was interesting.


----------



## personofinterest

wild jade said:


> Deejo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I watched the aired episode. Also watched him have a showdown with an alien. Gotta hand it to him. The Fonz had adventures.
> 
> 
> 
> And that's just it. Women don't like bad boys. Women like interesting boys who they can adventure with.
> 
> At least that's what this woman likes.
> 
> Fonzie was never bad. He was interesting.
Click to expand...

Dingdinding! Yes!


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> It can be but not always. Just think of programmes on TV about jails, nearly all inmates have loads of tattoos. I don't like them at all myself, and am so glad that my husband doesn't have any.


Here's a reality tip for you. One's choice of personal decoration does not mean anything other than how they choose to decorate. TV programs are fiction. And behavior determines goodness and badness.


----------



## NobodySpecial

personofinterest said:


> I only have 2 tattoos, so I can drive the getaway car. I'm sure our resident expert is now questioning my salvation lol


I only have one. But I am getting another with my DD this weekend. I am such a bad mother.


----------



## wild jade

NobodySpecial said:


> Here's a reality tip for you. One's choice of personal decoration does not mean anything other than how they choose to decorate. TV programs are fiction. And behavior determines goodness and badness.


Yes. My husband could easily be classed the bad boy. He drives a motorcycle, looks the part in a few ways. He is even a rebel at heart.

But there's nothing bad about him. He is kind, generous, caring, honest, down to earth ...always looking out for other people.


----------



## personofinterest

Yep. I have met plenty of tattooed tough looking men who were much kinder, more loving, more compassionate, and more human than any fundamentalist Pharisee with every hair in place.


----------



## ReformedHubby

NobodySpecial said:


> I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.


I would venture to say that everything TAM has peddeled about bad boys is the stuff of action movies and comic books. Bad boys have mythical status. Hide your woman! If that guy on the motorcycle with the tatoos winks at her, she will run away with him and leave you all alone.


----------



## personofinterest

ReformedHubby said:


> NobodySpecial said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.
> 
> 
> 
> I would venture to say that everything TAM has peddeled about bad boys is the stuff of action movies and comic books. Bad boys have mythical status. Hide your woman! If that guy on the motorcycle with the tatoos winks at her, she will run away with him and leave you all alone.
Click to expand...

 Yeah. Like I said, it is the go to whining excuse of incels and men who got burned and are now maladjusted.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> I am laughing that tattoos are synonymous with bad. I think I will go rob a store.


Where they are situated directly plays into how 'bad' you are.


----------



## Deejo

ReformedHubby said:


> I would venture to say that everything TAM has peddeled about bad boys is the stuff of action movies and comic books. Bad boys have mythical status. Hide your woman! If that guy on the motorcycle with the tatoos winks at her, she will run away with him and leave you all alone.


Lets be real, primarily around here we deal in hyperbole and overreaction. Reality is often a lot more subtle.

Here is how I define bad boy, as a guy on the back side of middle age, and with 2 daughters.

Bad boy is the kid or man, you most definitely do not want to find out your daughter is dating, and you can't understand what she possibly sees in him.

Are they the stuff of action movies and comic books? Sure. James Bond is a fictional character created by Ian Fleming ... who was a notorious womanizer, and baked much of himself into the character.

We often get caught up in the framework of how we refer to or describe things around here. Do men need to worry about 'bad boys'? Odds are they do not. Should men pay attention to or be aware of what makes them more or less attractive to women or a particular woman? Yes, they probably should. If fostering long term attraction with your mate is a goal, it helps to know what she finds attractive; whether it's your knowledge of quantum mechanics, or engine mechanics.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Where they are situated directly plays into how 'bad' you are.


How "bad" is a "tramp stamp"?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Lets be real, primarily around here we deal in hyperbole and overreaction. Reality is often a lot more subtle.


While we are on it, not just hyperbole and overreaction but totally linear and simplistic thinking. Reality is not just more subtle, it has lots and lots of contributing factors beyond the black and white that is discussed here.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> How "bad" is a "tramp stamp"?


A tramp stamp is 'naughty'.

A face tattoo? That plants your flag firmly in 'bad' territory. Not like Michael Jackson bad. MS13 bad.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> A tramp stamp is 'naughty'.
> 
> A face tattoo? That plants your flag firmly in 'bad' territory. Not like Michael Jackson bad. MS13 bad.


One of my brothers was a manager of a restaurant many years ago. He actually had a dishwasher with "Born to Lose" tattooed on his face. Like, no **** bro, you cannot undo that one. You really ARE born to lose.


----------



## ReformedHubby

I saw a few men with tramp stamp tats back in the day (yes they appeared to be straight). It just didn't look right. Only one of those tribal arm band tats is worse.


----------



## NobodySpecial

ReformedHubby said:


> I saw a few men with tramp stamp tats back in the day (yes they appeared to be straight). It just didn't look right. Only one of those tribal arm band tats is worse.


Who calls them "tats" anymore?


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> While we are on it, not just hyperbole and overreaction but totally linear and simplistic thinking. Reality is not just more subtle, it has lots and lots of contributing factors beyond the black and white that is discussed here.


You're not wrong.

Relationships are absolutely nuanced. It can be hard to capture that in an online post. Once you've been here a while, you see it all of the time. New poster makes a post, outlining their issue or concern. Respondents glom onto key words or phrases that either trigger them, or relate to their circumstances and just run with it ... whether it actually pertains to the issue at hand or not.

Again, circling back to the OP here, I don't have any issue with the young man's observation, and there are many here who have absolutely observed the same. Myself included. 

But, of course, no; not all women are always into bad boys.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

personofinterest said:


> I only have 2 tattoos, so I can drive the getaway car. I'm sure our resident expert is now questioning my salvation lol


:laugh:

I have four... technically five, but one is covered up now.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> You're not wrong.


The hell you say. 



> Relationships are absolutely nuanced. It can be hard to capture that in an online post.


ABSOLUTELY but not necessarily because the issues are subtle, but that the focal point of the poster does not represent the entire context. 



> Once you've been here a while,


Um? 


> you see it all of the time. New poster makes a post, outlining their issue or concern. Respondents glom onto key words or phrases that either trigger them, or relate to their circumstances and just run with it ... whether it actually pertains to the issue at hand or not.
> 
> Again, circling back to the OP here, I don't have any issue with the young man's observation, and there are many here who have absolutely observed the same. Myself included.
> 
> But, of course, no; not all women are always into bad boys.


----------



## ReformedHubby

NobodySpecial said:


> Who calls them "tats" anymore?


I hear and use that term all the time, and honestly if we are talking tramp stamps and tribal arm bands here, I am not sure they deserve the distinction of being called body art or a tattoo.


----------



## NobodySpecial

ReformedHubby said:


> I hear and use that term all the time, and honestly if we are talking tramp stamps and tribal arm bands here, I am not sure they deserve the distinction of being called body art or a tattoo.


My tattoo artist called my "tramp stamp" a tattoo because that is what it is regardless of where on my body it resides. Love that guy. He's the best.


----------



## Deejo

NobodySpecial said:


> The hell you say.
> 
> 
> ABSOLUTELY but not necessarily because the issues are subtle, but that the focal point of the poster does not represent the entire context.
> 
> 
> Um?


Reread my post. Pretty much mansplaining on my part. I know you know, as do most posting here.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Deejo said:


> Reread my post. Pretty much mansplaining on my part. I know you know, as do most posting here.


LOL! Sorry.


----------



## uhtred

Now we have to be clear about "good bad" and "bad bad". 






NobodySpecial said:


> How "bad" is a "tramp stamp"?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

NobodySpecial said:


> While we are on it, not just hyperbole and overreaction but totally linear and simplistic thinking. Reality is not just more subtle, it has lots and lots of contributing factors beyond the black and white that is discussed here.


This is my whole point on both the "Quality Woman" and recent "Successful Relationship" posts.. 

Real life.


----------



## wild jade

Deejo said:


> A tramp stamp is 'naughty'.
> 
> A face tattoo? That plants your flag firmly in 'bad' territory. Not like Michael Jackson bad. MS13 bad.


Not if you're Maori.

These days tattoos are so common, you're more of a freak if you don't have them than if you do.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Which one of these 2 are the more desirable ladies (assuming you just made eye contact across the room and haven't said a word yet).


----------



## personofinterest

Honestly, they are both handsome. Probably the lower one just because he seems......calm? I dunno lol. Then again, the lower one might be gay, he's so fastidious lol

Of course, neither of them would cross a room to talk to me. I'm not knocking myself; I'm just a realist


----------



## Elizabeth001

Isn’t it the same guy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Deejo

wild jade said:


> Not if you're Maori.
> 
> These days tattoos are so common, you're more of a freak if you don't have them than if you do.



I don't disagree about the cultural factor ... but ...
https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Ohio-woman-with-memorable-face-tattoo-arrested--502222601.html

I don't think she's a 'good girl'.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

It may be the same guy, diff accoutrements.
😎


----------



## uhtred

I *knew* I was a freak. I"m so edgy I don't have a tattoo.

(just kidding). I'm completely fine with tattoos, just don't have any. 



wild jade said:


> Not if you're Maori.
> 
> These days tattoos are so common, you're more of a freak if you don't have them than if you do.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> Here's a reality tip for you. One's choice of personal decoration does not mean anything other than how they choose to decorate. TV programs are fiction. And behavior determines goodness and badness.


Not talking about fiction, but about real life documentaries.


----------



## Diana7

MAJDEATH said:


> Which one of these 2 are the more desirable ladies (assuming you just made eye contact across the room and haven't said a word yet).
> 
> 
> View attachment 64699
> View attachment 64701


Neither.


----------



## Diana7

wild jade said:


> Not if you're Maori.
> 
> These days tattoos are so common, you're more of a freak if you don't have them than if you do.


I think you will find that far more people don't have them than do. So no we aren't freaks.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> I think you will find that far more people don't have them than do. So no we aren't freaks.


Good grief.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I have a wooden cross tattoo on right shoulder. Looks pretty good. 

For some unknown reason just thought I'd throw that out there.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Diana7 said:


> I think you will find that far more people don't have them than do. So no we aren't freaks.


Some people don't need decoration to be freaks. 0


----------



## Blondilocks

NobodySpecial said:


> Some people don't need decoration to be freaks. 0


My lips are zipped.:grin2:


----------



## Haiku

Several years ago my step-daughter gave me this tattoo while napping.


----------



## Blondilocks

Deejo said:


> I don't disagree about the cultural factor ... but ...
> https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Ohio-woman-with-memorable-face-tattoo-arrested--502222601.html
> 
> I don't think she's a 'good girl'.


She took the mask thing a little too seriously. Hey, Lady! You're supposed to be able to remove the mask after the dirty deed.


----------



## Faithful Wife

NobodySpecial said:


> ReformedHubby said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear and use that term all the time, and honestly if we are talking tramp stamps and tribal arm bands here, I am not sure they deserve the distinction of being called body art or a tattoo.
> 
> 
> 
> My tattoo artist called my "tramp stamp" a tattoo because that is what it is regardless of where on my body it resides. Love that guy. He's the best.
Click to expand...

I kind of go about it the opposite way.

I’m a tramp, so basically any tattoo on me anywhere on my body is a tramp stamp.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Faithful Wife said:


> I kind of go about it the opposite way.
> 
> I’m a tramp, so basically any tattoo on me anywhere on my body is a tramp stamp.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Many years ago I worked in the female prison system. I can't tell you the number of ladies who got involved with "bad boys", "thugs", "roughnecks", or whatever term you want to call them because of the outward attraction. And many were genuinely surprised when he started treating them like a thug would: taking over their place, taking all of their money, smacking them around, turning them out to start earning more money, using them to committ crimes, etc. 

And even though they ended up in prison and their thug has moved on to the next mark, the ladies still speak glowingly of their limited time with the dangerous and exciting roughneck.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MAJDEATH said:


> Many years ago I worked in the female prison system. I can't tell you the number of ladies who got involved with "bad boys", "thugs", "roughnecks", or whatever term you want to call them because of the outward attraction. And many were genuinely surprised when he started started treating them like a thug would: taking over their place, taking all of their money, smacking them around, turning them out to start earning more money, using them to committ crimes, etc.
> 
> And even though they ended up in prison and their thug has moved on to the next mark, the ladies still speak glowingly of their limited time with the dangerous and exciting roughneck.


So what is the average mental health of a woman in prison compared to the average non incarcerated woman?

How about the average trajectory of life choices for a woman incarcerated versus a woman not incarcerated?

Should we also apply the average incarcerated man’s life choices to the average non incarcerated man’s life choices?

And further, wouldn’t it be normal to assume that a Bonnie would be attracted to a Clyde and vice versa?


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> So what is the average mental health of a woman in prison compared to the average non incarcerated woman?
> 
> How about the average trajectory of life choices for a woman incarcerated versus a woman not incarcerated?
> 
> Should we also apply the average incarcerated man’s life choices to the average non incarcerated man’s life choices?
> 
> And further, wouldn’t it be normal to assume that a Bonnie would be attracted to a Clyde and vice versa?


It does strike me as deranged.

Having an attraction is one thing. Allowing someone to destroy your life while still admiring them???? Doesn't strike me as mental health.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Faithful Wife said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> Many years ago I worked in the female prison system. I can't tell you the number of ladies who got involved with "bad boys", "thugs", "roughnecks", or whatever term you want to call them because of the outward attraction. And many were genuinely surprised when he started started treating them like a thug would: taking over their place, taking all of their money, smacking them around, turning them out to start earning more money, using them to committ crimes, etc.
> 
> And even though they ended up in prison and their thug has moved on to the next mark, the ladies still speak glowingly of their limited time with the dangerous and exciting roughneck.
> 
> 
> 
> So what is the average mental health of a woman in prison compared to the average non incarcerated woman?
> 
> How about the average trajectory of life choices for a woman incarcerated versus a woman not incarcerated?
> 
> Should we also apply the average incarcerated man’s life choices to the average non incarcerated man’s life choices?
> 
> And further, wouldn’t it be normal to assume that a Bonnie would be attracted to a Clyde and vice versa?
Click to expand...

I suspect mental health is the about the same. But making poor choices in life is at the root cause. As a counselor, we tried to encourage our parolees not to return to a negative environment, but the recidivism rate was very high in the US.


----------



## wild jade

Deejo said:


> I don't disagree about the cultural factor ... but ...
> https://www.wvlt.tv/content/news/Ohio-woman-with-memorable-face-tattoo-arrested--502222601.html
> 
> I don't think she's a 'good girl'.


Fair enough. But you also happen to know that she was arrested twice in one month.

Just how much can you judge about these people's morality, just by looking at their tattoos?
https://www.tattoo-models.net/114-face-tattoos-holy-sht-amazing/


----------



## Faithful Wife

MAJDEATH said:


> I suspect mental health is the about the same. But making poor choices in life is at the root cause. As a counselor, we tried to encourage our parolees not to return to a negative environment, but the recidivism rate was very high in the US.


And so should we discuss the bad choices male parolees make and compare them to the attractions of men who are not ex convicts?


----------



## southbound

I have another crazy story to share that I heard last night.

I know a guy in his 50s who has dated a woman off and on for 10 years. I would describe him as a guy who does not have drama, he treats people right, and from what I can tell from women, he is an attractive guy. Anyway, this woman eventually broke up with him three or so years ago and eventually married another guy. Last December, he shot her in the parking lot of her work. It turns out he had been married 5 times, had a record, and all that kind of good stuff. The woman lived, but it's been a long recovery, and guess who she called to help her through it? the other guy; the one that has a brain and would never have done anything like this. 

He said he asked her, "what were you thinking?" Of course, one never gets a good answer. It's just a shy look of bewilderment with an, "I know." 

I think I understand less and less about relationships than ever. When I was younger, I didn't realize there was a subject that people grew more dumb in as they got older, but apparently this is mine.


----------



## Faithful Wife

I have friends who were strippers at one time. If you want to hear about lame idiots who follow bad girls around just begging for scraps of time and attention, step right up I’ve got tons of them!

The girls know these idiots are going to keep giving them money outside of the club, so they form fake friendships with these guys who then give them money and clothes and pay their rent. They call them a “penis with a wallet”. 

The guys, some married, actually think these girls like them or favor them. I don’t even mean they are selling sex. They are simply dragging these wallet penis around until it dries up, then she wants nothing to do with him.

It’s incredible how easily these men are manipulated. And trust me, many of these men are people you know and work with and probably think are happily married. They also act like men who think they have a way with women. Because “strippers like them”. 

These guys are so common that most strippers can have 10 at a time if she wants one, each one thinks he is special to her and she actually gives a crap about him.

The level of self delusion men can achieve when they think you’re hot is astounding.


----------



## ConanHub

Faithful Wife said:


> I have friends who were strippers at one time. If you want to hear about lame idiots who follow bad girls around just begging for scraps of time and attention, step right up I’ve got tons of them!
> 
> The girls know these idiots are going to keep giving them money outside of the club, so they form fake friendships with these guys who then give them money and clothes and pay their rent. They call them a “penis with a wallet”.
> 
> The guys, some married, actually think these girls like them or favor them. I don’t even mean they are selling sex. They are simply dragging these wallet penis around until it dries up, then she wants nothing to do with him.
> 
> It’s incredible how easily these men are manipulated. And trust me, many of these men are people you know and work with and probably think are happily married. They also act like men who think they have a way with women. Because “strippers like them”.
> 
> These guys are so common that most strippers can have 10 at a time if she wants one, each one thinks he is special to her and she actually gives a crap about him.
> 
> The level of self delusion men can achieve when they think you’re hot is astounding.


This is pretty interesting. Counterpoint to the bad boy syndrome?

I dated a couple and had a few as friends but the ones I knew kept work-life and personal life totally separate.

I can't say I ever got deeply involved in stripper etiquette but they seemed like mostly nice girls and many could carry on a high end conversation about literature with me.

I am absolutely buying the attraction men have towards hot "bad girls" you are talking about.

Maybe the yearning for some danger isn't confined to one gender?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Conan, I’m always surprised when anyone thinks it IS confined to one gender. It’s pretty evident that hot bad boys and girls will always be chased around by people who don’t seem to know better.


----------



## Diana7

NobodySpecial said:


> Some people don't need decoration to be freaks. 0



IF you say so. :|


----------



## Diana7

southbound said:


> I have another crazy story to share that I heard last night.
> 
> I know a guy in his 50s who has dated a woman off and on for 10 years. I would describe him as a guy who does not have drama, he treats people right, and from what I can tell from women, he is an attractive guy. Anyway, this woman eventually broke up with him three or so years ago and eventually married another guy. Last December, he shot her in the parking lot of her work. It turns out he had been married 5 times, had a record, and all that kind of good stuff. The woman lived, but it's been a long recovery, and guess who she called to help her through it? the other guy; the one that has a brain and would never have done anything like this.
> 
> He said he asked her, "what were you thinking?" Of course, one never gets a good answer. It's just a shy look of bewilderment with an, "I know."
> 
> I think I understand less and less about relationships than ever. When I was younger, I didn't realize there was a subject that people grew more dumb in as they got older, but apparently this is mine.


I am at a loss to understand why anyone could even imagine that a 4 or 5 times married/divorced person would make a good spouse. That's apart from his law breaking. The chances of a 5th or 6th marriage working out must be about 1%.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Faithful Wife said:


> And so should we discuss the bad choices male parolees make and compare them to the attractions of men who are not ex convicts?


FW, it seems you keep wanted to move the topic back to men. The OP was about *women* and bad boys. You could apply it there as well but I was staying on topic.

However the difference might be when women chase bad boys, the guys may have a higher expectation of sexy time and not wait around for the lonely housewife to give it up. The men supporting strippers already get to see them naked daily and might wait forever to seal the deal.


----------



## MAJDEATH

Faithful Wife said:


> I have friends who were strippers at one time. If you want to hear about lame idiots who follow bad girls around just begging for scraps of time and attention, step right up I’ve got tons of them!
> 
> The girls know these idiots are going to keep giving them money outside of the club, so they form fake friendships with these guys who then give them money and clothes and pay their rent. They call them a “penis with a wallet”.
> 
> The guys, some married, actually think these girls like them or favor them. I don’t even mean they are selling sex. They are simply dragging these wallet penis around until it dries up, then she wants nothing to do with him.
> 
> It’s incredible how easily these men are manipulated. And trust me, many of these men are people you know and work with and probably think are happily married. They also act like men who think they have a way with women. Because “strippers like them”.
> 
> These guys are so common that most strippers can have 10 at a time if she wants one, each one thinks he is special to her and she actually gives a crap about him.
> 
> The level of self delusion men can achieve when they think you’re hot is astounding.


I heard similar stories from some of the few "hot looking" female inmates. They were the ones having money sent into their inmate accounts from 10 different guys. We monitored their phones calls and visitors so we knew. They hustled/manipulated many men and then shared the proceeds of that hustle with their lesbian GFs :smile2:


----------



## Faithful Wife

MAJDEATH said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> And so should we discuss the bad choices male parolees make and compare them to the attractions of men who are not ex convicts?
> 
> 
> 
> FW, it seems you keep wanted to move the topic back to men. The OP was about *women* and bad boys. You could apply it there as well but I was staying on topic.
Click to expand...

Ok fair enough. But you were not talking about “women” who are into bad boys. You were talking about convicted criminals.

I have to disagree that criminals are on topic. If you feel what “women” want should be combined in the discussion with what criminals want then I don’t think we are having the same discussion.

Also on topic, my thoughts on bad boys...

Being bisexual, I love both bad boys and bad girls. Why? Because they are ****ty and are going to rock your world, always show you a good time, and possibly take you on an adventure.

They usually are a bit hotter than your average person, but this is sometimes achieved through hubris rather than physicality.

I myself have never chased these creatures, as I am a different kind of unicorn. They usually chase me. Because I find them delightful people sometimes, I may befriend them and then get to go on adventures with them without involving myself or my body to any great degree.

I don’t date them or have sex with them, but I’ve had a few who we grope each other sometimes. All platonically of course.

Bad boys and girls know how to party, and will make sure you have fun where ever you go. It’s all about fun. And if you are young and healthy enough to join them without getting too attached, it’s the ride of a lifetime.

Most of them end up as some type of what we would call a burn out. But they are still having fun in their own way. Not all of them end up sad loser addicts. Some end up just your average fun dude at the corner bar who works all day at a normal job. Some evolve past their bad days and have nice normal lives.

I like dating these guys. My rebound boyfriend was one of them. A true bad boy through his 30’s, but always had a heart of gold. Also always wanted kids so married a bartender and then they both got into a great career, had kids, and became what most around here would consider to be upper class suburban folks.

He was about 53 when we started seeing each other and had definitely evolved...but only to an extent. His bad boy spirit was right there beneath the surface. He looked like he walked out of a Nordstrom catalog but he was tougher than a junk yard dog. 

Also we together we able to play bad boy and girl games together, in a safe, adult way. So that was fun.

Ultimately he was a bit too rough for this unicorn but some ex bad girl is going to sweep him off his feet.


----------



## SpinyNorman

3Xnocharm said:


> Haha god NO on the crotch rockets, at least to me they have ZERO sex appeal! I cant even explain what it is about HD's and the men that ride them.. maybe because the bikes themselves are similar to those men. They are loud, and beefy, and beautiful to look at LOL! I think classic sport cars are sexy too, with their big loud engines and pipes, and the curves and chrome..





BioFury said:


> I think that's just the older generation.
> 
> The Harley style of bike couldn't be more obnoxious in my estimation. They sound like an incessant fart. Besides having a *high bark to bite ratio*.


I like it. I'd say it applies to Harleys, muscle cars, and most of the "bad boys".


----------



## Woolyjumpers

I've never understood the appeal of 'bad boys' personally. 

I sometimes think that women only go for the men they think they deserve.


----------



## MAJDEATH

"What's up ladies"


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

I dunno on the Harleys. 

I've always been a Suzuki fan, and they've always bee a great ride. Now many of my lifelong friends have harleys and I'll have to ride out the poles for not getting one but that doesn't concern me really. 

I committed to doing the durn back yard fence before the bike purchase, so I sacrificed my initial impulse when that came up, of going out that day and getting one.

Course I still hadn't made up my mind which, and am getting the motorcycle holo added to my DL, so it wasn't all a cave in.

Now I'm just a guy in jeans and the old tool belt, building a few things for now.

I've got all the debris and old fence hauled off. A couple more hours with a chainsaw, and building, and that will be done.

So I'm still contemplating a Suzuki or an Indian. I have been looking in different shops.

😎


----------



## RubyRing

personofinterest said:


> Women are not a hive mind.
> 
> "All the women like bad boys" is what jaded MGTOWs or incels say to themselves to explain why they can't get a woman to give them sex.


I have not read all of the replies, but I agree, we are not all alike, and this sounds like a jaded MGTOW complaint.

There is a small subset of women who go for bad boys, particularly among very young women. I must admit that my very first, extremely short term marriage was to a "bad boy". My 2nd husband presented as a squeeky clean boy scout, and around mid-life turned into a full fledged man-*****, and I was completely blind-sided. The wonderful man I am married to now, is very kind, thoughtful, generous and I am absolutely crazy about him. If he had presented ANY kind of bad boy behavior, ie: player like tendencies, ambiguity about our relationship, hot cold games, flirting, aloofness, etc. I would have dropped him like a hot potato. I was drawn to him because he is very handsome and definitely a good man. I figure since we are senior citizens, I don't have to be concerned about a mid-life crisis


----------



## RubyRing

pLaTesPinNeR said:


> I’m with the other ladies here. The bad boy is not for me - not into tattoos (though not against them), the biker look, etc. I’m deeply attracted to a well groomed, sexy man in a great fitting suit or shirt. I love the confidence that exudes. But I also like a rugged, bearded man in jeans and t-shirt. It’s honestly more about things like eyes, smile, posture and body language. How he looks at me when we’re talking. Types of things he says. Confidence gets me every time.


When it comes to beards i HATE the all over the face, down to the knees, gray Duck Dynasty look. I mean, it makes me want to puke. At my age, most men have graying, scratchy beards. I prefer clean cut, but am OK with a little bit of well trimmed facial hair. My dear husband has a neatly trimmed mustache and goatee, mostly strawberry blonde and white, not that pewter, scratchy gray type. However, since I do prefer clean cut over ANY facial hair, I do remember scrutinizing his match.com pictures before writing back to him, to be SURE that I would not be turned off by his facial hair. I was really on the fence about that, but since I liked his profile and his opening e-mail to me, I thought it was silly to not at least go out and meet with him to see if there was any in person chemistry. After exchanging several more e-mails, I was actually getting excited about meeting him, and the "beard issue" was fading away. When we first laid eyes on each other, it was the elusive, initial instant chemistry. His rugged good looks, coupled with his smitten school boy demeanor and the twinkle in his eye, just instantly wowed me. 4 years later, he still wows me. Now I can't believe I ever gave a flying flip about his goatee, and in fact, when has shaved it off a few times in our marriage, I find that I prefer his goatee and moustache. It's part of his overall rugged good looks.


----------



## MAJDEATH

RubyRing said:


> pLaTesPinNeR said:
> 
> 
> 
> I’m with the other ladies here. The bad boy is not for me - not into tattoos (though not against them), the biker look, etc. I’m deeply attracted to a well groomed, sexy man in a great fitting suit or shirt. I love the confidence that exudes. But I also like a rugged, bearded man in jeans and t-shirt. It’s honestly more about things like eyes, smile, posture and body language. How he looks at me when we’re talking. Types of things he says. Confidence gets me every time.
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to beards i HATE the all over the face, down to the knees, gray Duck Dynasty look. I mean, it makes me want to puke. At my age, most men have graying, scratchy beards. I prefer clean cut, but am OK with a little bit of well trimmed facial hair. My dear husband has a neatly trimmed mustache and goatee, mostly strawberry blonde and white, not that pewter, scratchy gray type. However, since I do prefer clean cut over ANY facial hair, I do remember scrutinizing his match.com pictures before writing back to him, to be SURE that I would not be turned off by his facial hair. I was really on the fence about that, but since I liked his profile and his opening e-mail to me, I thought it was silly to not at least go out and meet with him to see if there was any in person chemistry. After exchanging several more e-mails, I was actually getting excited about meeting him, and the "beard issue" was fading away. When we first laid eyes on each other, it was the elusive, initial instant chemistry. His rugged good looks, coupled with his smitten school boy demeanor and the twinkle in his eye, just instantly wowed me. 4 years later, he still wows me. Now I can't believe I ever gave a flying flip about his goatee, and in fact, when has shaved it off a few times in our marriage, I find that I prefer his goatee and moustache. It's part of his overall rugged good looks.
Click to expand...

A guy I work with swears by this rule: never let your facial grow longer than her hair "down there".


----------



## uhtred

For women who have dated bad boys, are they actually fun to be with, or is most of the appeal only at a distance?


----------



## farsidejunky

uhtred said:


> For women who have dated bad boys, are they actually fun to be with, or is most of the appeal only at a distance?


It is the same reason many men try to bed crazy women.

There is something desirable about just a hint of danger.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> For women who have dated bad boys, are they actually fun to be with, or is most of the appeal only at a distance?





uhtred said:


> For women who have dated bad boys, are they actually fun to be with, or is most of the appeal only at a distance?


The fact that they may be "bad" is incidental. They are FUN. As you mature and gain experience, you distinguish between FUN and RISK, choosing the former and ditching the latter. In any event, the guy you date and the guy you marry can be very different. Stereotypically, this is normal and laudable for men. But for women, not so much. For whatever reasons, women whose panties don't get wet at their "provider" husband who is boring but brings home the bacon are evil. If you are lucky, you find a man who is both fun and responsible. But that is not that common. And many people aren't going to go for irresponsible for their co-parent.


----------



## 269370

Does getting banned a lot qualify as being a bad boy? 
All the bad boys I know appear to be unhappy.
And all the crazy women I know end up with lots of cats. Maybe coincidence. Or maybe the sex is worth it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uhtred

I wonder why "provider"  men are boring. I know a very atypical set of people, but for them, the the most interesting ones are also the ones who are solid / reliable. At least the things I find interesting require a lot of organization / planning and that tends to also give people good general life skills.

Maybe it comes down to what makes someone "fun". For me its people that do interesting / exciting things: drive race cars, climb mountains, exotic travel, martial arts, rock climbing, musicians etc. A lot of these look "exciting" at a glance, but to do them well takes a lot of concentration, effort and planning. (and money).

Spontaneity is certainly fun, but its possible to have good boundaries on that.

Other people may find other types of behavior "fun", I have remarkably little contact with normal humans. Is irresponsibility actually fun?




NobodySpecial said:


> The fact that they may be "bad" is incidental. They are FUN. As you mature and gain experience, you distinguish between FUN and RISK, choosing the former and ditching the latter. In any event, the guy you date and the guy you marry can be very different. Stereotypically, this is normal and laudable for men. But for women, not so much. For whatever reasons, women whose panties don't get wet at their "provider" husband who is boring but brings home the bacon are evil. If you are lucky, you find a man who is both fun and responsible. But that is not that common. And many people aren't going to go for irresponsible for their co-parent.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> I wonder why "provider" men are boring. I know a very atypical set of people, but for them, the the most interesting ones are also the ones who are solid / reliable. At least the things I find interesting require a lot of organization / planning and that tends to also give people good general life skills.


They aren't necessarily. As I said, some people get lucky and find both.


----------



## personofinterest

> I wonder why "provider" men are boring. I know a very atypical set of people, but for them, the the most interesting ones are also the ones who are solid / reliable. At least the things I find interesting require a lot of organization / planning and that tends to also give people good general life skills.


They aren't. That's one of those RedPill false dichotomies incels and bitter guys came up with


----------



## uhtred

There seems to be a general belief that there is a correlation, that women, unless they are very lucky, get to choose the exciting "bad boy" or the boring "provider". I guess I'm wondering if women see this in real life. Are the sort of reliable solid men who can hold down jobs more often boring? 

Maybe I'm confused about the whole exciting / boring concept here. 

I guess its also possible that men who are both reliable and exciting are more desirable and so more difficult to find because other women have found them first?






NobodySpecial said:


> They aren't necessarily. As I said, some people get lucky and find both.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> There seems to be a general belief that there is a correlation, that women, unless they are very lucky, get to choose the exciting "bad boy" or the boring "provider". I guess I'm wondering if women see this in real life. Are the sort of reliable solid men who can hold down jobs more often boring?


"Hold down jobs"?? That's not a very high bar.




> Maybe I'm confused about the whole exciting / boring concept here.


You are way over thinking it really. It torques some guys that their wives that their undies aren't steamy when they walk in the doors. Life sucks. But sometimes, the answer is, yah she is just not interested in you in that way. Bummer.


----------



## uhtred

I find the concept of bad boy vs provider interesting. It doesn't apply in my world, but its still interesting anthropology.

What does "good provider" mean other than "hold down jobs". 


It seems to me the positive things about "bad boys" is that they are strong (in a general sense), and adventurous. The positive thing about "providers" is that they are reliable. These seem completely independent to me, no reason having a lot of one, would imply a lack of the other. 

Maybe I'll ask differently: what are the positive characteristics of a "provider' and a "bad boy". 




NobodySpecial said:


> "Hold down jobs"?? That's not a very high bar.
> 
> 
> 
> You are way over thinking it really. It torques some guys that their wives that their undies aren't steamy when they walk in the doors. Life sucks. But sometimes, the answer is, yah she is just not interested in you in that way. Bummer.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> I find the concept of bad boy vs provider interesting.


Not sure why you are replying to me. The Badness is incidental to the desire. 



> It doesn't apply in my world, but its still interesting anthropology.
> 
> What does "good provider" mean other than "hold down jobs".
> 
> 
> It seems to me the positive things about "bad boys" is that they are strong (in a general sense), and adventurous. The positive thing about "providers" is that they are reliable. These seem completely independent to me, no reason having a lot of one, would imply a lack of the other.
> 
> Maybe I'll ask differently: what are the positive characteristics of a "provider' and a "bad boy".


Never. Mind. sheesh


----------



## uhtred

Sorry, just discussing, wasn't meant as a disagreement with your post. 



NobodySpecial said:


> Not sure why you are replying to me. The Badness is incidental to the desire.
> 
> 
> 
> Never. Mind. sheesh


----------



## 269370

uhtred said:


> Maybe I'll ask differently: what are the positive characteristics of a "provider' and a "bad boy".



Maybe with bad boys, that’s when the lizard brain is engaged whereas with providers, the Jewish brain, I mean the analytical brain is engaged  (I have consent from my rabbi to make fun of my people. Sometimes ).

I think these are all such terrible generalisations again...I don’t think I missed out on being the baddest ass in my hood...
Some people just prioritise different qualities. Being a Badass is just one of many. One could be asking: why are some women attracted to guys with bigger than average noses...Same difference 
I was never attracted to crazy women. Though even some tame women can be pretty crazy, especially when it’s that time of the month. (Not to be insensitive, I know PMS can be a major pain near the ass).




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> Sorry, just discussing, wasn't meant as a disagreement with your post.


Oh, no worries. Just thought it weird that you reply to my post without seeming to read it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

InMyPrime said:


> Maybe with bad boys, that’s when the lizard brain is engaged whereas with providers, the Jewish brain,


And you have the nerve in another post to comment on getting frequently banned. Some people can't be taught. "Joke" or not, can you see how righteously offensive this could be to a Jewish person?


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> And you have the nerve in another post to comment on getting frequently banned. Some people can't be taught. "Joke" or not, can you see how righteously offensive this could be to a Jewish person?



I’m Jewish. I was joking about ridiculous stereotypes, relax.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

InMyPrime said:


> I’m Jewish. I was joking, relax.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You do know that not all jokes are funny, right? That something is called a "joke" does not insulate it from being a massively a-hole thing to say in a public forum?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

NobodySpecial said:


> And you have the nerve in another post to comment on getting frequently banned. Some people can't be taught. "Joke" or not, can you see how righteously offensive this could be to a Jewish person?


Just sayin, among my Jewish friends this particular joke isn't offensive. 

When referencing their supposed superiority in money matters and steadfastness, they take this example as a badge of honor.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Just sayin, among my Jewish friends this particular joke isn't offensive.
> 
> When referencing their supposed superiority in money matters and steadfastness, they take this example as a badge of honor.


I certainly know plenty who would be offended. I can't quite grasp how joking about the excuse for Jewish abuse over hundreds of years is funny. Only a ginger can call another ginger, ginger. ANd they should not do it in public forums.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Haiku said:


> Several years ago my step-daughter gave me this tattoo while napping.



The **** they learn in prison. SMDH.:grin2:


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

uhtred said:


> There seems to be a general belief that there is a correlation, that women, unless they are very lucky, get to choose the exciting "bad boy" or the boring "provider". I guess I'm wondering if women see this in real life. Are the sort of reliable solid men who can hold down jobs more often boring?
> 
> Maybe I'm confused about the whole exciting / boring concept here.
> 
> I guess its also possible that men who are both reliable and exciting are more desirable and so more difficult to find because other women have found them first?


I can say, before getting into @NobodySpecial 's expounding (which are more good different ways of approaching btw)

That:

I've been labeled as a "bad boy" because of multiple things I won't go into detail right here, but thank the Lord I've always tried to do my part in His plan with determination and sometimes without showing fear, that's worked out well.

I've been called a good provider. Of which I'm thankful for.

The kicker is; the way my buds and I were raised we we encouraged to live life fully, exposed to a lot of difficult circumstances early, guided to suck it up, but with love, mostly, and that do what you want if you can at times, take a stand where needed. 

But, part of that freedom includes without question taking care if your family and meeting your obligations, period.

That simple statement has always haunted me, to the point of it comes first in the big picture. 

It never kept me from doing some stupid things (looking back), taking risks I should've avoided, and yes, doing things against my DW's wishes at times.

Or doing crazy things with and for my W, when she needed.

Now, I've broken one arm twice, the other arm too, one leg, one foot, and my nose, cracked my pelvis.

But not all were my fault btw. Probably half, a maybe a tad more.

Been a smartass. Been a dumbass. 

But always when I knew, God forbid something bad happened, my family would continue to be cared for in my absence. 

So we were raised to be fully men, ******* if you will, but caring for family was a manly thing to keep at the top.

I had to adjust my work before family attitude when I became more successful, that was a problem too.

But hey. It worked, so to say.

So imho, a man can be both. But there are greater peaks and valleys while one learns to moderate over the long run.

DW could personally shoot me at times, but she'd be the first to take me to the dr. if needed. 

Or she'd make me suffer a bit.

But smile all the way. Mostly. Well maybe not always but she comes around. 

And I tell her I'm the luckiest man alive for having her.


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> You do know that not all jokes are funny, right? That something is called a "joke" does not insulate it from being a massively a-hole thing to say in a public forum?



The ones you don’t find funny are usually quite funny though...Anyway what’s wrong with having a Jewish brain? I thought that’s not a terrible thing. Or acknowledging this is also offensive? I can’t tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr The Other

I will stick to the theory that people of both sexes have a bad side, and women are more inhibited in revealing it. Humiliation for a woman is being exposed of bad character, whereas for a man it would be being incapable. So, women hide their "bad side" to their character more.

A waitress makes a mess of your dessert and then has to go home crying, as she just learned a close family member has died. Everyone says "the poor, poor girl" and you really should not complain about your dessert....but you would like to...

The man who says, "Yeah, shame and everything but you should replace my lady's dessert because she that waitress did a **** job of it" will mean she can then be embarrassed, but still have her cake and eat it. 

Which is why not every woman will go for the bad guy and all these answers will be different. Clearly, being a cowardly mummies boy is not good, but in the above scenario, many women would be annoyed at the man who was concerned for the waitress.


----------



## MattMatt

NobodySpecial said:


> I certainly know plenty who would be offended. I can't quite grasp how joking about the excuse for Jewish abuse over hundreds of years is funny. Only a ginger can call another ginger, ginger. ANd they should not do it in public forums.


*Moderator note:*

He is Jewish. Therefore, please stop, OK?

Being offended on behalf of other people can be a problem. As it can be seen as offensive in itself.


----------



## MattMatt

InMyPrime said:


> The ones you don’t find funny are usually quite funny though...Anyway what’s wrong with having a Jewish brain? I thought that’s not a terrible thing. Or acknowledging this is also offensive? I can’t tell.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Presumably having a Jewish brain works quite well for you. In the context that it's what you were born with?  

I'm quite happy with my Anglo-Welsh brain, as it happens, for similar reasons.


----------



## personofinterest

Mr The Other said:


> I will stick to the theory that people of both sexes have a bad side, and women are more inhibited in revealing it. Humiliation for a woman is being exposed of bad character, whereas for a man it would be being incapable. So, women hide their "bad side" to their character more.
> 
> A waitress makes a mess of your dessert and then has to go home crying, as she just learned a close family member has died. Everyone says "the poor, poor girl" and you really should not complain about your dessert....but you would like to...
> 
> The man who says, "Yeah, shame and everything but you should replace my lady's dessert because she that waitress did a **** job of it" will mean she can then be embarrassed, but still have her cake and eat it.
> 
> Which is why not every woman will go for the bad guy and all these answers will be different. Clearly, being a cowardly mummies boy is not good, but in the above scenario, many women would be annoyed at the man who was concerned for the waitress.


If my husband knew the waitress had gotten traumatic news and he acted like an ass trying to get me a new dessert....I'd be horrified.

Generalizations are silly. No matter what Corey Wayne and Reddit say....


----------



## 269370

MattMatt said:


> Presumably having a Jewish brain works quite well for you. In the context that it's what you were born with?



Most of the time. Other times I feel in dire need of a brain transplant....like today. Wanna switch brains for a bit?  It’s guaranteed to make you rich! 

Sorry I offended anyone with my brains  



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr The Other

personofinterest said:


> If my husband knew the waitress had gotten traumatic news and he acted like an ass trying to get me a new dessert....I'd be horrified.
> 
> Generalizations are silly. No matter what Corey Wayne and Reddit say....


I did specifically state that all are different. There will be many reasons, but if someone is liking the "Bad boy" we have to accept the premise. My own girlfriend would be horrified if I acted like that too. 

The explination must either be that the "bad boy" is not genuinely bad (i.e. the nice guy is actually a domesticated child) or that some men are bumholes and that some women actually prefer that. If it is the latter, then some will be motivated by poor self-esteem and others for less pleasant reasons. That reflects women being just as varied as men.


----------



## wild jade

Different people have very different thresholds as to what they might consider "fun", "exciting", or "boring."

To me, having a "provider" (LOL) husband where we live in the same house, raise our 2.5 kids, work the same jobs until we retire or die is like a death knell. I don't really care about being looked after -- I want to switch things up, try new things, have some adventures. If that means taking huge risks where maybe everything won't work out in a lovely way, say, taing a chance on living a passion instead of maintaining a steady job ... or uprooting everything and just moving to the other side of the earth, well so be it. I'm up for the "risk". 

All the guys I dated might have been classed by some as "bad boys", though really, they were just unconventional, and had a higher threshold for adventure than the average. 





uhtred said:


> I wonder why "provider" men are boring. I know a very atypical set of people, but for them, the the most interesting ones are also the ones who are solid / reliable. At least the things I find interesting require a lot of organization / planning and that tends to also give people good general life skills.
> 
> Maybe it comes down to what makes someone "fun". For me its people that do interesting / exciting things: drive race cars, climb mountains, exotic travel, martial arts, rock climbing, musicians etc.  A lot of these look "exciting" at a glance, but to do them well takes a lot of concentration, effort and planning. (and money).
> 
> Spontaneity is certainly fun, but its possible to have good boundaries on that.
> 
> Other people may find other types of behavior "fun", I have remarkably little contact with normal humans. Is irresponsibility actually fun?


----------



## Diana7

I see bad boys as generally weak, selfish and lacking in any character, integrity or self control. Thats why they have never attracted me. 

I like men who have a strong character and bags of integrity. Why will go against the flow and stand up for what is right. Who have self control and discipline and don't worry about what others think of them.


----------



## Diana7

wild jade said:


> Different people have very different thresholds as to what they might consider "fun", "exciting", or "boring."
> 
> To me, having a "provider" (LOL) husband where we live in the same house, raise our 2.5 kids, work the same jobs until we retire or die is like a death knell. I don't really care about being looked after -- I want to switch things up, try new things, have some adventures. If that means taking huge risks where maybe everything won't work out in a lovely way, say, taing a chance on living a passion instead of maintaining a steady job ... or uprooting everything and just moving to the other side of the earth, well so be it. I'm up for the "risk".
> 
> All the guys I dated might have been classed by some as "bad boys", though really, they were just unconventional, and had a higher threshold for adventure than the average.


My good decent reliable man moved to the other side of the world. Born and raised in Oz, moved to the UK in his 20's.
We are shortly to move again for the third time in 4 years, in three different counties in different parts of the country. Life certainly isn't dull or boring, in fact we just want to find a place we can call home now and get to know people and find a good church. There is such a thing as too much moving around believe me. He has also had many different types of work and jobs, and now has his own business and is shortly going to start a part time role as a lecturer at an uni which he hasn't done for nearly 40 years. 



My guess is that you are pretty young?


----------



## wild jade

Diana7 said:


> My good decent reliable man moved to the other side of the world. Born and raised in Oz, moved to the UK in his 20's.
> We are shortly to move again for the third time in 4 years, in three different counties in different parts of the country. Life certainly isn't dull or boring, in fact we just want to find a place we can call home now and get to know people and find a good church. There is such a thing as too much moving around believe me. He has also had many different types of work and jobs, and now has his own business and is shortly going to start a part time role as a lecturer at an uni which he hasn't done for nearly 40 years.
> 
> 
> 
> My guess is that you are pretty young?


LOL. No, I am not young, not even close. And you seem to have missed my point entirely -- which is that what a lot of people want to call "bad" is just different. 

I am very glad, however, that your good, decent, reliable, church-going man also likes to move and change jobs, but, not, of course, too much or in a way that others might see him as a bad boy.


----------



## Diana7

wild jade said:


> LOL. No, I am not young, not even close. And you seem to have missed my point entirely -- which is that what a lot of people want to call "bad" is just different.
> 
> I am very glad, however, that your good, decent, reliable, church-going man also likes to move and change jobs, but, not, of course, too much or in a way that others might see him as a bad boy.


I suspect you are pretty young. Probably about my children's ages I suspect. 

As for my husband, he doesn't care what others think of him, not a bit.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> I suspect you are pretty young. Probably about my children's ages I suspect.
> 
> As for my husband, he doesn't care what others think of him, not a bit.


Wild Jade is close to my age. Are your children 50?


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> Wild Jade is close to my age. Are your children 50?


One is in his 40's.


----------



## azimuth

Bad boy doesn't necessarily mean "no job" and "not a provider." I think bad boys are in every social status and any profession. To me a bad boy is someone who is somewhat of a player, womanizer, withholding, flirty with women, not quite committed, just gives enough to string you along. Someone who primarily does their own thing and keeps their SO somewhat on the side. Some women want to be the one to lock him down and be the one he gives his heart to. But he withholds his heart and women continue to chase him because that's the pattern he's used to.


----------



## personofinterest

Diana7 said:


> One is in his 40's.


At any rate, 50 is plenty old to know one's mind.

You're just being obstinate and digging in.


----------



## uhtred

I think different people may have very different things in mind when they talk about "bad boys". 

Is it a guy who doesn't want to commit to a relationship, or a guy who just got out of prison for aggravated assault, or a guy who races motorcycles, does mixed martial arts, and holds down a steady job as firefighter? 




azimuth said:


> Bad boy doesn't necessarily mean "no job" and "not a provider." I think bad boys are in every social status and any profession. To me a bad boy is someone who is somewhat of a player, womanizer, withholding, flirty with women, not quite committed, just gives enough to string you along. Someone who primarily does their own thing and keeps their SO somewhat on the side. Some women want to be the one to lock him down and be the one he gives his heart to. But he withholds his heart and women continue to chase him because that's the pattern he's used to.


----------



## serenity22

Nothing more attractive than a kind man. Bad boys are for women who do not respect themselves.


----------



## heartsbeating

uhtred said:


> I think different people may have very different things in mind when they talk about "bad boys".
> 
> Is it a guy who doesn't want to commit to a relationship, or a guy who just got out of prison for aggravated assault, or a guy who races motorcycles, does mixed martial arts, and holds down a steady job as firefighter?


The question of these hypotheticals cover different individual and potentially societal aspects of life - the last being around hobbies/interests and employment, which could still overlap somewhat with the other hypotheticals.

However, that’s not to suggest I can offer alternatives to this ‘bad boy’ thought to provide any clarity. 


What I do know is what I appreciate in people, and who I tend to gravitate towards.


----------



## wild jade

uhtred said:


> I think different people may have very different things in mind when they talk about "bad boys".
> 
> Is it a guy who doesn't want to commit to a relationship, or a guy who just got out of prison for aggravated assault, or a guy who races motorcycles, does mixed martial arts, and holds down a steady job as firefighter?


Yes, exactly. Who is this "bad boy" that women supposedly fall all over themselves for?

I've heard women say that they'd never be with a guy who would buy a motorcycle instead of a minivan because it's too risky, and shows he only cares about himself. I've heard women say they couldn't be with a guy who couldn't keep a steady job because then there would be no one to pay the bills. I've heard women say they'd never be with a guy who didn't go to church because if he isn't god-fearing then he isn't a good man.

I've also heard women say (okay only on TV so maybe it's not real) that the guy in prison for murder they are waiting for is actually really sweet -- at least to her. 

Personally, I would never be with someone who was mean to people or animals, but if those other things are also "bad boy", well... then "bad boy" is fine with me.


----------



## 269370

wild jade said:


> Yes, exactly. Who is this "bad boy" that women supposedly fall all over themselves for?




Anyone, other than their husband? :smthumbup:

I guess it depends the levels that sexual frustration has reached.


----------



## wild jade

azimuth said:


> Bad boy doesn't necessarily mean "no job" and "not a provider." I think bad boys are in every social status and any profession. To me a bad boy is someone who is somewhat of a player, womanizer, withholding, flirty with women, not quite committed, just gives enough to string you along. Someone who primarily does their own thing and keeps their SO somewhat on the side. Some women want to be the one to lock him down and be the one he gives his heart to. But he withholds his heart and women continue to chase him because that's the pattern he's used to.


I definitely would not want to be in a committed relationship (or trying to be) with someone who wasn't also committed!

If that's what bad boy means, then I'm not interested-- I've got better things to do.


----------



## wild jade

InMyPrime said:


> Anyone, other than their husband? :smthumbup:
> 
> I guess it depends the levels that sexual frustration has reached.


Hmmmm, if my wife were falling all over herself for other men, I'm pretty sure it would be her that I had the problem with ... not them.


----------



## 269370

wild jade said:


> Hmmmm, if my wife were falling all over herself for other men, I'm pretty sure it would be her that I had the problem with ... not them.


You have no idea how annoying some husbands can be. (Yes, #mesoannoyingtoo)


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

wild jade said:


> Hmmmm, if my wife were falling all over herself for other men, I'm pretty sure it would be her that I had the problem with ... not them.


Good thing people can't read minds. I would be alone forever, the thoughts that go through my head when I see a hot woman. Even a moderately attractive woman. Sometimes they aren't even attractive but have big titties or a nice ass... Put it this way, men don't wear sunglesses at the beach to protect our eyes from UV rays. I don't seek their attention though, so maybe that is what you are referring to.


----------



## azimuth

wild jade said:


> I definitely would not want to be in a committed relationship (or trying to be) with someone who wasn't also committed!
> 
> If that's what bad boy means, then I'm not interested-- I've got better things to do.



I wasn't accusing you or anyone of wanting to be with a guy like this. I was refuting the claim that a bad boy is someone who doesn't have a job. There are "bad boys" who are rich and some who are in prison. I was trying to pinpoint the characteristics of what makes a bad boy regardless of profession. And no, I am not attracted to those traits either.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

uhtred said:


> I think different people may have very different things in mind when they talk about "bad boys".
> 
> Is it a guy who doesn't want to commit to a relationship, or a guy who just got out of prison for aggravated assault, or a guy who races motorcycles, does mixed martial arts, and holds down a steady job as firefighter?


Shoot,

I'd date a guy who races motorcycles, an MMA champion, and is a firefighter.

Ha! Just kidding 😂😂😂😂


----------



## MAJDEATH

Maybe we should unpack the word "into" from the title. Into could mean the ladies are attracted to or interested in a guy like that, but would not ever consider settling down into a life-time life together. My W has always had a thing for the slightly rough "artistic" types of guys because she is very artistic. She will always find musicians, comedians, painters, sculptors, writers, etc fascinating, but she would never consider a full-time life with them. She is the first to tell you that those types of guys are not stable with jobs, relationships, addresses, friends, etc. Fun but not functional.


----------



## ReformedHubby

wild jade said:


> Yes, exactly. Who is this "bad boy" that women supposedly fall all over themselves for?


Honestly I don't think he exists. There are guys that have "it". They come in all shapes, colors, and sizes and they dress in all kinds of ways, they can be blue collar or white collar, they are men that attract more females than the average male. Some women view them as risky to fall for, and some men are envious of them. To me this is the definition of a "bad boy". With that said, no one has universal appeal, but some of us do get more attention than others. I'm sure all of us have a had a female or male friend that the opposite sex fawns all over. Were they necessarily bad though:scratchhead:? What I am trying to say is being bad has nothing to do with it. Sexy is sexy.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

personofinterest said:


> Like I said....except for dysfunctional women, the bad boy stereotype is mainly touted by incels as their excuse for why no woman and bitter men as their excuse for why they pump and dump


This is like the "women only want jerks" talk from loser boys. I say boys because they certainly aren't men. What kind of ******* thinks all men who can get a woman are jerks? The biggest jerks I know are the "nice guys" and coincidently these "nice guys" are always single. Gee, I wonder why?


----------



## Diana7

personofinterest said:


> At any rate, 50 is plenty old to know one's mind.
> 
> You're just being obstinate and digging in.


 If you say so. :|


----------



## Diana7

TheDudeLebowski said:


> This is like the "women only want jerks" talk from loser boys. I say boys because they certainly aren't men. What kind of ******* thinks all men who can get a woman are jerks? The biggest jerks I know are the "nice guys" and coincidently these "nice guys" are always single. Gee, I wonder why?


They aren't though, I know loads of happily married nice guys with lovely wives.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Diana7 said:


> They aren't though, I know loads of happily married nice guys with lovely wives.


The point of that post went over your head. These "nice guys" would look at those happily married men as jerks for some made up reason. Also, the "women only date jerks" is a dig at women, not the men. They take their hatred of women out on the men who actually get women. Then they sit around in their bitterness and self hatred throwing stones at everyone else. These guys are the "nice guys" in their own heads. Everyone else is the problem, not them.


----------



## red oak

I was always always aloof. Walked own path. Never tha classic bad boy. Seldom fought. 

Just one in high school. I never wanted to fight. After that talked they wanted to but never jumped given the opportunity. 

Women would leave notes in my locker, coming up wanting me to take them out. Working as a bouncer years later women always wanting me to dance....

Shortened version and wifes reaction. 
In early marriage to my XW had a confrontation with three drunk, drugged out guys in a store who were looking for a fight.

Main one in front being much taller than (monster of a man) me gave me a head but, taking a punch from me in process.

One behind me told the big guy, didn't think they wanted to go there. 

They all apologized told me I was a stand up guy, gave me their names,and left. I was ??confused?? To say the least. 

Wife was bragging to everybody, and said guy behind me got wide eyed and scared looking when head but didn't phase me. She couldn't believe a man 200 pounds heavier and 1 and half feet taller backed off.

Even though she was 8 months pregnant she was hot for several nights. 
She related story to some of her friends and a couple actually made passes after that. Go figure.

I wouldn't say it's so much of the bad boy attraction as much as attraction to one who stands by his values.

ETA: just my humble experience.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Diana7 said:


> They aren't though, I know loads of happily married nice guys with lovely wives.


You know, I do too.

A few are divided up into a group of were kind of sketchy, but turned some corners on to a more narrow traditional path, then years go by, and now if observed would be thought forever were the way they are now, peace loving great providers, help everybody, humble .

But in the beginning not so much.

I am 100% of the belief that picking right mate greatly impacts more considerate and positive results decisions getting made as time goes on.

Bad, negative conflict in a M contributes to sometimes harmful decisions by both spouses, mostly the men's (sorry) but that seems to be borne out in my observations. 

Constructive, non "tearing down" the other SO conflicts help in positive growth for both, including the whole family unit.

Hey, I could write a book on this. 😉😉😉


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

red oak said:


> I was always always aloof. Walked own path. Never tha classic bad boy. Seldom fought.
> 
> Just one in high school. After that many would talk they wanted to but none ever jumped when given the opportunity.
> 
> Women would leave notes in my locker, coming up wanting me to take them out. Working as a bouncer years later women always wanting me to dance....
> 
> Shortened version and wifes reaction.
> In early marriage to my XW had a confrontation with three drunk, drugged out guys in a store who were looking for a fight.
> 
> Main one in front being much taller than (monster of a man) me gave me a head but, taking a punch from me in process.
> 
> One behind me told the big guy, didn't think they wanted to go there.
> 
> They all apologized told me I was a stand up guy, gave me their names,and left. I was ??confused?? To say the least.
> 
> Wife was bragging to everybody, and said guy behind me got wide eyed and scared looking when head but didn't phase me. She couldn't believe a man 200 pounds heavier and 1 and half feet taller backed off.
> 
> Even though she was 8 months pregnant she was hot for several nights.
> She related story to some of her friends and a couple actually made passes after that. Go figure.
> 
> I wouldn't say it's so much of the bad boy attraction as much as attraction to one who stands by his values.


Reminds me of a confrontation I had with some fool who was being loud about Star Trek being better than Star Wars. I stood my ground, remained calm, and stated the obvious case that Star Wars is far superior. He and his buddies started advancing on me. Suddenly the guy in the spock costume placed a Vulcan death grip on me. I wasn't phased, and continued to stand my ground. The guy with the Boba Fett outfit behind me said "I don't think you want to do that" but he had fear in his voice. 

They finally backed off. As I strutted away in my Han Solo outfit, I could feel the heat of lust coming off the ladies in their anime costumes.


----------



## Diana7

TheDudeLebowski said:


> The point of that post went over your head. These "nice guys" would look at those happily married men as jerks for some made up reason. Also, the "women only date jerks" is a dig at women, not the men. They take their hatred of women out on the men who actually get women. Then they sit around in their bitterness and self hatred throwing stones at everyone else. These guys are the "nice guys" in their own heads. Everyone else is the problem, not them.


So sort of like those career women who cant get a boyfriend and claim its because men are intimidated by them? Or like women I have read about who claim they are so attractive that men are also intimidated?
Like the are making excuses as to why they cant get a boyfriend when it may just be their arrogance and not very nice personalities that put men off.Such as this charming lady:surprise:

https://www.unilad.co.uk/film-and-t...find-a-boyfriend-because-shes-too-attractive/


----------



## red oak

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Reminds me of a confrontation I had with some fool who was being loud about Star Trek being better than Star Wars. I stood my ground, remained calm, and stated the obvious case that Star Wars is far superior. He and his buddies started advancing on me. Suddenly the guy in the spock costume placed a Vulcan death grip on me. I wasn't phased, and continued to stand my ground. The guy with the Boba Fett outfit behind me said "I don't think you want to do that" but he had fear in his voice.
> 
> They finally backed off. As I strutted away in my Han Solo outfit, I could feel the heat of lust coming off the ladies in their anime costumes.


That's funny. >

Eta: 
Since I'm not the bad boy type, seldom fought yet still had women chasing me what was my excuse other than knowledge I would defend if forced to?

Women do find that attractive.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Here's a question. And I'm asking it honestly. 
And I agree with my decision, and W doesn't have an issue with it mostly.

I don't wear a wedding ring, or watch.

I've had four rings, and have one now, rarely, very rarely wear it.

I've lost three, because I take them off when I'm in the field, and doing inspections on live electric panels, but mostly when working in sites laying out Contractors , working in active fiber racks, switches, LAN infrastructure, Carrier circuits extensions etc. Mostly helping junior techs, but I'm a hands on guy every now and then.

Mostly CAD and design work, but like to get into the field.

Don't like staying in my office. 

I run a lot of meetings, and training classes.

I've had my ring get caught on things routinely so I put in in my pocket or set it down, and next thing you know misplaced it again.

It hung up on a ceiling hangar when I was coming down a ladder for an inspection when finaling the ceiling space and I hung by my finger long enough to say hey, no more. 

I didn't wear one for 10 yrs, then tried, now for the last two years, no more.

Not even on weekends, etc.

Would not wearing a ring be an issue for any women?


----------



## red oak

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's a question. And I'm asking it honestly.
> And I agree with my decision, and W doesn't have an issue with it mostly.
> 
> I don't wear a wedding ring, or watch.
> 
> I've had four rings, and have one now, rarely, very rarely wear it.
> 
> I've lost three, because I take them off when I'm in the field, and doing inspections on live electric panels, but mostly when working in sites laying out Contractors , working in active fiber racks, switches, LAN infrastructure, Carrier circuits extensions etc. Mostly helping junior techs, but I'm a hands on guy every now and then.
> 
> Mostly CAD and design work, but like to get into the field.
> 
> Don't like staying in my office.
> 
> I run a lot of meetings, and training classes.
> 
> I've had my ring get caught on things routinely so I put in in my pocket or set it down, and next thing you know misplaced it again.
> 
> It hung up on a ceiling hangar when I was coming down a ladder for an inspection when finaling the ceiling space and I hung by my finger long enough to say hey, no more.
> 
> I didn't wear one for 10 yrs, then tried, now for the last two years, no more.
> 
> Not even on weekends, etc.
> 
> Would not wearing a ring be an issue for any women?


Not for mine.


----------



## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's a question. And I'm asking it honestly.
> And I agree with my decision, and W doesn't have an issue with it mostly.
> 
> I don't wear a wedding ring, or watch.
> 
> I've had four rings, and have one now, rarely, very rarely wear it.
> 
> I've lost three, because I take them off when I'm in the field, and doing inspections on live electric panels, but mostly when working in sites laying out Contractors , working in active fiber racks, switches, LAN infrastructure, Carrier circuits extensions etc. Mostly helping junior techs, but I'm a hands on guy every now and then.
> 
> Mostly CAD and design work, but like to get into the field.
> 
> Don't like staying in my office.
> 
> I run a lot of meetings, and training classes.
> 
> I've had my ring get caught on things routinely so I put in in my pocket or set it down, and next thing you know misplaced it again.
> 
> It hung up on a ceiling hangar when I was coming down a ladder for an inspection when finaling the ceiling space and I hung by my finger long enough to say hey, no more.
> 
> I didn't wear one for 10 yrs, then tried, now for the last two years, no more.
> 
> Not even on weekends, etc.
> 
> Would not wearing a ring be an issue for any women?


If its a danger thing then no, not at work, but you could wear it at home.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I think most women would prefer you wear it around your junk.


----------



## heartsbeating

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Reminds me of a confrontation I had with some fool who was being loud about Star Trek being better than Star Wars. I stood my ground, remained calm, and stated the obvious case that Star Wars is far superior. He and his buddies started advancing on me. Suddenly the guy in the spock costume placed a Vulcan death grip on me. I wasn't phased, and continued to stand my ground. The guy with the Boba Fett outfit behind me said "I don't think you want to do that" but he had fear in his voice.
> 
> They finally backed off. As I strutted away in my Han Solo outfit, I could feel the heat of lust coming off the ladies in their anime costumes.


bwahahahah!

Post of the month.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Here's a question. And I'm asking it honestly.
> And I agree with my decision, and W doesn't have an issue with it mostly.
> 
> I don't wear a wedding ring, or watch.
> 
> I've had four rings, and have one now, rarely, very rarely wear it.
> 
> I've lost three, because I take them off when I'm in the field, and doing inspections on live electric panels, but mostly when working in sites laying out Contractors , working in active fiber racks, switches, LAN infrastructure, Carrier circuits extensions etc. Mostly helping junior techs, but I'm a hands on guy every now and then.
> 
> Mostly CAD and design work, but like to get into the field.
> 
> Don't like staying in my office.
> 
> I run a lot of meetings, and training classes.
> 
> I've had my ring get caught on things routinely so I put in in my pocket or set it down, and next thing you know misplaced it again.
> 
> It hung up on a ceiling hangar when I was coming down a ladder for an inspection when finaling the ceiling space and I hung by my finger long enough to say hey, no more.
> 
> I didn't wear one for 10 yrs, then tried, now for the last two years, no more.
> 
> Not even on weekends, etc.
> 
> Would not wearing a ring be an issue for any women?


What about the new silicone wedding bands? Ever thought of trying one of those? 

I never take my rings off personally. I have a promise ring ive worn sense we were teenagers on my right middle finger. Cheapo james avery silver band. Funny thing, before we were married I took it off once doing some work on my car. My wife knocked it down the sink on accident. She went out and replaced it the next day. I forgot I had taken it off. So she gives me the new one and said, hey you left this by the sink. She said she spent some time scuffing it up even haha. She told me about this maybe 5 years ago. We had a good laugh about it. So I'm on my second promise ring. Ive never taken my wedding ring off, no matter how down and dirty I'm getting working on whatever. One ring on each hand. People often notice them and ask why I wear two rings. Or they will see the ring on my right hand and say "you're wearing that on the wrong finger" until I show them my left hand with my wedding ring and say "Yeah, and that ring is on the wrong hand too isnt it?" 

But yeah, for your safety I'm sure most women wouldn't care. For comfort, well all I can say is my wife has gotten me a nice watch before. I might have worn it twice. The hell is the point in having a watch anyway? You carry a phone! Seems redundant and beyond uncomfortable.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

red oak said:


> That's funny. >
> 
> Eta:
> Since I'm not the bad boy type, seldom fought yet still had women chasing me what was my excuse other than knowledge I would defend if forced to?
> 
> Women do find that attractive.


I don't know what I was tbh. A bit of a criminal I suppose. Nothing like theft or assault or stuff that harmed anyone else really. I might have once upon a time sold a little pot here and there maybe, perhaps, might have or might not have. Single parent home, broke, working restaurants as a teenager, so naturally I was into the drug scene and drug culture. Lots of party days with college kids when I was barely 17. 

I never was a fighter. I could talk my way into and out of anything. I also made friends with scary dudes, and anyone really, so people never really messed with me, but I don't think I've ever given anyone a reason to either. I've never been reckless or extremely hot headed. I've always been rather self depricating. I'm a very giving person. I'm on the smarter end of the spectrum of dumb guys. I'd like to think I was fairly balanced in terms of good guy/bad guy qualities. 

Life is all about balance right? :wink2:


----------



## uhtred

The confusion here is that some people use the term "nice guys" to mean something completely different. I think there was a book somewhere that redefined the term "nice guy" to mean something else. 

For people like me who haven't read the book, the discussion gets very confusing. Should we use the term "actual nice guy"????

I take "nice guy" to mean a guy who is nice. Someone who goes out of their way to do things for others. 







TheDudeLebowski said:


> The point of that post went over your head. These "nice guys" would look at those happily married men as jerks for some made up reason. Also, the "women only date jerks" is a dig at women, not the men. They take their hatred of women out on the men who actually get women. Then they sit around in their bitterness and self hatred throwing stones at everyone else. These guys are the "nice guys" in their own heads. Everyone else is the problem, not them.


----------



## uhtred

I'm surprised at how many men have been in situations where some sort of physical confrontation was necessary to protect someone. I haven't been in a fight since i was probably 10. I've never been threatened with violence. A couple of times I've been with friends who said things that could have gone that way, but it was easy to defuse. I've been in modestly hazardous situation from weather or other similar dangers, but rarely. 

Maybe its because I don't drink and so am rarely around intoxicated people?


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

uhtred said:


> The confusion here is that some people use the term "nice guys" to mean something completely different. I think there was a book somewhere that redefined the term "nice guy" to mean something else.
> 
> For people like me who haven't read the book, the discussion gets very confusing. Should we use the term "actual nice guy"????
> 
> I take "nice guy" to mean a guy who is nice. Someone who goes out of their way to do things for others.


an actual nice guy doesn't have to tell everyone he's a nice guy. He's just being himself. The "nice guys" shout to the world that he's a nice guy and just can't figure out why women only date jerks. So this "nice guy" is calling me, you, any man who has a woman really, a great big jerk who treats women like crap. So basically, every woman on earth is scum because they only like jerks. And every guy who can actually get a woman is a jerk. We are the problem, not them. These "nice guys" remain levitating above all of us jerks and stupid women who are happy together. There's a difference in being a nice guy, and a "nice guy" 

I hope that makes it easier to understand.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

uhtred said:


> I'm surprised at how many men have been in situations where some sort of physical confrontation was necessary to protect someone. I haven't been in a fight since i was probably 10. I've never been threatened with violence. A couple of times I've been with friends who said things that could have gone that way, but it was easy to defuse. I've been in modestly hazardous situation from weather or other similar dangers, but rarely.
> 
> Maybe its because I don't drink and so am rarely around intoxicated people?


I've rarely been in those situations either, but I've been close to being in them. I have rather good intuition and know when it's time to leave. Yes, drugs and alcohol do impact things, no question. There's a thing about being around these people I learned very quickly. The ones who ended up in jail, or arrested, or with some sort of probation, busted for whatever, they never really got IT. What IT is, is to be seen, but not remember being seen. To be likable, then instantly forgotten. To blend in with your surroundings, unnoticeable. "I think he was there, but I can't remember" oh yeah, I was there, I just left when I knew it was time. Yes I missed all the action, but I was never a part of it, and I never saw anything. There's another good example of keeping your nose clean. The amount of times I heard "dude, you missed it! When did you leave?" Growing up in that environment, some people have IT, whatever that is. Everyone else has an arrest on their record or worse. Everyone else is still stuck in that life, in jail, or dead. I was in biker bars drinking nightly at 17, my restaurant friends vouching for me. I dropped out of HS, I was making really good money in those days. Going on insane drug benders, running with all sorts of people. I have some crazy stories of stupidity, but I was just smart enough and savvy enough to keep my nose clean and remain in control of myself and my actions and finances. How many people build their credit while doing all that? Lol. Even if I made dumb choices overall with my life, I was never dumb enough to let them ruin me for good. I was always aware enough of myself and limitations, and I had luck, intuition, and street smarts to help me out with everything else. 

That's more information about my past than I really like to share, but there it is. Maybe I was a "bad boy" but I don't really like that term. I just had a different life through high school than most kids do. I was never a jerk to anyone. I don't have tattoos or whatever. I never had long hair and I can't even grow a beard. Whatever these stereotypes of the "bad boy" are. They aren't me.


----------



## sokillme

I don't care about being nice. I want to be good. **** nice.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

And another thing! Lol. I hate this idea of "victim of circumstance" go **** yourself! I was in full control always. My choices. My decisions. My mistskes. My successes. My failures. Period! I turned away from that life. Anyone can do it. This idea that "he's had a rough childhood, we should spare him some judgement" is complete BS. If you're stupid enough to ruin your life, that is on YOU! Some people have a different path, doesn't make it any more or less difficult. It's just different. I don't know what its like to grow up rich, with a silver spoon. I do know that a lot of those silver spoon fed kids end up way worse off than I am. So cut the crap already! 

"But he doesn't know any other life" well then he's stupid! Its all around you. Examples are everywhere. Plus, you know damn well what you are doing. I knew what I was doing. I made choices. I have regrets, but mostly I look back on my successes and I'm proud of where I am and proud of where I'm going. I don't look at my dumb choices made and blame any system that "forced" me to make them. How dare anyone claim I was never in control of my own life? How dare someone say "I didnt know any better" who the **** are you to tell me what I did and didn't know? Want to talk about privilege? There's your privilege! Your privilege of sitting upon your own successes and judging me as if I had no choices in my own life, of the paths I chose to take, the decisions I made with full awareness of the consequences of those decisions. There is no privilege of circumstance, it's more or less a guilt of your own successes while others fail due to their OWN choices THEY made that lead them to failure. 

As far as "bad boys" what does that even mean really? How does one define the "bad boy" Some guy that makes stupid mistakes? Well thats all of us. Is it some guy who has run ins with the law? Cause thats just some stupid guy who has no self awareness or street smarts. Is it some inked up, long hair, guitar playing, biker? Maybe that guy rescues puppies for a living, and feeds homeless people on his days off while living off solar power and filtered river water. Composts all his trash and poop and besides his bike, leaves no trace of existance on the environment whatsoever. What is this "bad boy" and what does he look like? What does he act like? Nobody really knows. Its just some mythological creature that gets all the ladies I guess. I talk a lot of bull****, but the "women are into bad boys" line is some of the biggest bull**** I've ever heard.


----------



## 269370

Diana7 said:


> They aren't though, I know loads of happily married nice guys with lovely wives.




But how often do they have anal? That’s the question. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SunCMars

personofinterest said:


> Women are not a hive mind.
> 
> "All the women like bad boys" is what jaded *MGTOW*s or incels say to themselves to explain why they can't get a woman to give them sex.


The bolded word above caught my eye.

When young and broke, I owned a 1966 Morris, MG MGB. I had the thing towed at least three times. It was always breaking down. Apparently, the guy I bought it off of never did any maintenance on it.

'Men going there own way', ah, none of them were driving an MG!





[THM]- THRD


----------



## SunCMars

All humor aside...

I have more than one personality. 
When young, I associated with good and bad boys.
Good and bad girls.

I had to appease the different factions within me.
Imagine living with Martians, a loose lady, a glib Schmoozer and Einstein in your head.

All demanding of your time. All demanding equal representation.

At some point, the Martians got mostly shunted aside. I chose law abiding Martians, military types as friends.
I also befriended nerdy egg heads and.....





[THM]- THRD

Gods, why did I just write this?


----------



## red oak

uhtred said:


> The confusion here is that some people use the term "nice guys" to mean something completely different. I think there was a book somewhere that redefined the term "*nice *guy" to mean something else.
> 
> For people like me who haven't read the book, the discussion gets very confusing. Should we use the term "actual nice guy"????
> 
> I take "nice guy" to mean a guy who is nice. Someone who goes out of their way to do things for others.


I've always found it spooky when a woman says, "he's a nice guy, butt..." the nice of nice guy is still given the original meaning of the word, (adj.)
late 13c., "foolish, stupid, senseless," from Old French nice (12c.) "careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish," from Latin nescius "ignorant, unaware," literally "not-knowing," from ne- "not" (from PIE root *ne- "not") + stem of scire "to know" (see science). "The sense development has been extraordinary, even for an adj." [Weekley] -- from "timid" (pre-1300) >>


----------



## red oak

uhtred said:


> *I'm surprised at how many men have been in situations where some sort of physical confrontation was necessary to protect someone*. I haven't been in a fight since i was probably 10. I've never been threatened with violence. A couple of times I've been with friends who said things that could have gone that way, but it was easy to defuse. I've been in modestly hazardous situation from weather or other similar dangers, but rarely.
> 
> Maybe its because I don't drink and so am rarely around intoxicated people?


It happens there are times they can be unavoidable. 

Once in high school I actually had my head layed on my desk. Next thing I know I was getting beat on.

2nd not really a fight, bunch of drunks followed me in a store. Guess thought would be easy mark.

Most all others I have been able to avoid, or talk out of.

Learning Situational Awareness, and a divine guiding hand I learned to listen to was something kept me alive at a couple rest areas, and truck stops when I was a driver, and other times.

Had a former brother in law who almost wasn't. At a truck stop was tired while checking his trailer didn't pay attention to anyone around. Seeing a shadow he turned just in time the tire iron caught his shoulder instead of the back of his head. 

The mugger was drugged out of his mind. Brother was able to get the tire iron and almost had to beat the guy to death. At least other drivers saw it so BIL was released of all charges.

Beem in some hairy situations as a driver. Especially spooky during the last recession when gas was so high and they were hijacking trucks for the fuel. 

So yes it does happen. 

I think the knock out game has faded. 

My best friend who lived 400yds from me is permanently brain damaged and in a nursing home from an attempt to beat him to death to rob him at his home.
I've developed DTA.


----------



## MAJDEATH

I probably killed about 50 people in my life, does that make me a bad boy?


----------



## NobodySpecial

I could not care less about the ring. That's just me.


----------



## wild jade

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Good thing people can't read minds. I would be alone forever, the thoughts that go through my head when I see a hot woman. Even a moderately attractive woman. Sometimes they aren't even attractive but have big titties or a nice ass... Put it this way, men don't wear sunglesses at the beach to protect our eyes from UV rays. I don't seek their attention though, so maybe that is what you are referring to.


Oh, I get it now! "Bad boys" are just any man your woman drools over.


----------



## personofinterest

wild jade said:


> TheDudeLebowski said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good thing people can't read minds. I would be alone forever, the thoughts that go through my head when I see a hot woman. Even a moderately attractive woman. Sometimes they aren't even attractive but have big titties or a nice ass... Put it this way, men don't wear sunglesses at the beach to protect our eyes from UV rays. I don't seek their attention though, so maybe that is what you are referring to.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I get it now! "Bad boys" are just any man your woman drools over.
Click to expand...

 Pretty much lol. Or, even more often, the badboy is any man who she will go out with instead of me. Because obviously there is something wrong with her if she is not falling all over herself to go out with me.


----------



## wild jade

azimuth said:


> I wasn't accusing you or anyone of wanting to be with a guy like this. I was refuting the claim that a bad boy is someone who doesn't have a job. There are "bad boys" who are rich and some who are in prison. I was trying to pinpoint the characteristics of what makes a bad boy regardless of profession. And no, I am not attracted to those traits either.


I didn't think you were ... and wasn't challenging your post at all. I was just musing on your definition of bad boy and how awful it would be to chase someone who was purposefully avoiding commitment.


----------



## wild jade

uhtred said:


> I'm surprised at how many men have been in situations where some sort of physical confrontation was necessary to protect someone. I haven't been in a fight since i was probably 10. I've never been threatened with violence. A couple of times I've been with friends who said things that could have gone that way, but it was easy to defuse. I've been in modestly hazardous situation from weather or other similar dangers, but rarely.
> 
> Maybe its because I don't drink and so am rarely around intoxicated people?


Maybe you're just lucky? I've been in a few threatening situations ... some more threatening than others.


----------



## TheDudeLebowski

personofinterest said:


> Pretty much lol. Or, even more often, the badboy is any man who she will go out with instead of me. Because obviously there is something wrong with her if she is not falling all over herself to go out with me.


Exactly. Because women are only in to jerks who will mistreat them. All the jerks and bad boys get all the women, then they wonder why they get mistreated. They never notice a good guy like me is here. I would treat her right, even though she and everyone else are beneath me, I know how to be a good man while I levitate above everyone else.


----------



## personofinterest

TheDudeLebowski said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty much lol. Or, even more often, the badboy is any man who she will go out with instead of me. Because obviously there is something wrong with her if she is not falling all over herself to go out with me.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Because women are only in to jerks who will mistreat them. All the jerks and bad boys get all the women, then they wonder why they get mistreated. They never notice a good guy like me is here. I would treat her right, even though she and everyone else are beneath me, I know how to be a good man while I levitate above everyone else.
Click to expand...

 Wow, you managed to sound like just about every red pill guy, Corey Wayne guy, and incel all-in-one lol

I know you were being facetious. You were just so spot on, I could almost SEE the neckbeard and HEAR WoW playing in the distance lolol


----------



## uhtred

I may have been lucky. I'm also not counting dangerous situations where physical violence wouldn't have helped.



wild jade said:


> Maybe you're just lucky? I've been in a few threatening situations ... some more threatening than others.


----------



## ReformedHubby

wild jade said:


> Oh, I get it now! "Bad boys" are just any man your woman drools over.


I actually think bad boys are any man that just happens to be dating the woman you're interested in. He could Bob from accounting with a bad comb over, but.....if he is with the one you want...he is bad boy...and a player...bla, bla, bla....


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> Women are not a hive mind.
> 
> "All the women like bad boys" is what jaded MGTOWs or incels say to themselves to explain why they can't get a woman to give them sex.


Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.


You are a small bitter guy, aren't ya

I never rode a c-ck carousal. Maybe you just don't know how to pick decent women.


----------



## NobodySpecial

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.


Or they get lucky, like me and they can still ride the carousel with a guy who can still be a horse AND a great family man!


----------



## Faithful Wife

ReformedHubby said:


> I actually think bad boys are any man that just happens to be dating the woman you're interested in. He could Bob from accounting with a bad comb over, but.....if he is with the one you want...he is bad boy...and a player...bla, bla, bla....


Yeah, I think this is true when some men are doing the typical musing about "why do women love bad boys". It is because some bad boy stole his woman. Or even a woman he only barely likes. He sees her with a guy who he puts into a category and then decides she was into bad boys. He usually doesn't even know the guy to know whether he's good, bad or anything else. The guy could be a world humanitarian doctor who donates his salary to charity but he was wearing leather that day so, must be a bad boy!

But there is no denying that there are actual bad boys and actual bad girls and that yes, a lot of them are sexy. However, there are also sexy good boys and good girls, so there's no reason for anyone to wonder why others are into sexy people. Unless of course, as above, it is only because they felt envy or jealousy about one or more of them.


----------



## Faithful Wife

NobodySpecial said:


> Or they get lucky, like me and they can still ride the carousel with a guy who can still be a horse AND a great family man!


I'm not so much into the carousel myself, but I'll always defend any woman's right to do so. Giddyup, yee hawwww!!!


----------



## ConanHub

NobodySpecial said:


> Or they get lucky, like me and they can still ride the carousel with a guy who can still be a horse AND a great family man!


:smthumbup::lol:


----------



## wild jade

Faithful Wife said:


> I'm not so much into the carousel myself, but I'll always defend any woman's right to do so. Giddyup, yee hawwww!!!


Nothing wrong with the carousel! It's not like there's a rule that you have to try out every horse. You can stay with the same one for the whole ride, you can check out one or two before you decide, or you can run around and catch as many as you can before the music stops. Whatever you decide.

Spinning plates, on the other hand, is a competition about who can do the most. So there's no real choice, you just have to run your ass off to keep up with Jones.


----------



## 269370

personofinterest said:


> You are a small bitter guy, aren't ya
> 
> 
> 
> I never rode a c-ck carousal. Maybe you just don't know how to pick decent women.




Or maybe nobody took you to a theme park? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> Or they get lucky, like me and they can still ride the carousel with a guy who can still be a horse AND a great family man!



You mean like a Minotaur or a Centaur? Just to clear up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

InMyPrime said:


> You mean like a Minotaur or a Centaur? Just to clear up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have no idea what that means!


----------



## 269370

NobodySpecial said:


> I have no idea what that means!



You mentioned your husband is half horse half family man, I was just wondering whether it’s the top or bottom...
Oh never mind. Tough crowd today...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NobodySpecial

InMyPrime said:


> You mentioned your husband is half horse half family man, I was just wondering whether it’s the top or bottom...
> Oh never mind. Tough crowd today...
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


lol. I he is fully both! He is a goddamn genius.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a small bitter guy, aren't ya
> 
> I never rode a c-ck carousal. Maybe you just don't know how to pick decent women.
Click to expand...

Times have changed...


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.
> 
> 
> 
> You are a small bitter guy, aren't ya
> 
> I never rode a c-ck carousal. Maybe you just don't know how to pick decent women.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Times have changed...
Click to expand...

 I suspect it is you that has changed. But apparently the red pill boys club grows every day.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> I suspect it is you that has changed. But apparently the red pill boys club grows every day.


Its best to know what you are up against. Most young men are ignorant of women through inexperience or femcentric instruction, too many white knights and orbiters, they think women are like them except in female form. Good news is they will catch on and get it.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect it is you that has changed. But apparently the red pill boys club grows every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Its best to know what you are up against. Most young men are ignorant of women through inexperience or femcentric instruction, too many white knights and orbiters, they think women are like them except in female form. Good news is they will catch on and get it.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is best for young men to know that young women are free to have sex with whoever they choose (who is willing and consents). You are right that young men need to know this. Please spread it far and wide. You of course will also color it as if it’s a bad thing, but that’s ok. Whatever we need to do to make sure young men understand that young women are free beings with free will. Just as young men are free to have sex with whoever is willing and consents, so are young women. It would be nice if you could communicate this without all the divisiveness but I realize you don’t feel that is an option. Again, whatever works to let the young men know.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Faithful Wife said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> I suspect it is you that has changed. But apparently the red pill boys club grows every day.
> 
> 
> 
> Its best to know what you are up against. Most young men are ignorant of women through inexperience or femcentric instruction, too many white knights and orbiters, they think women are like them except in female form. Good news is they will catch on and get it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, it is best for young men to know that young women are free to have sex with whoever they choose (who is willing and consents). You are right that young men need to know this. Please spread it far and wide. You of course will also color it as if it’s a bad thing, but that’s ok. Whatever we need to do to make sure young men understand that young women are free beings with free will. Just as young men are free to have sex with whoever is willing and consents, so are young women. It would be nice if you could communicate this without all the divisiveness but I realize you don’t feel that is an option. Again, whatever works to let the young men know.
Click to expand...

Wow, you took what I said and somehow made it rapey...lol


----------



## ConanHub

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.


There is some really weird thinking going on here.

Girls are just as confused and uncertain as boys when it comes to relationships and sex. I would also say that girls have more to be worried about on top of all the regular confusion that afflicts most young people.

There really isn't a hypergamy conspiracy with annual meetings going on with women.

There are easily as many or more broken hearted women as men. Crappy behavior is an unfortunate human characteristic, not a female conspiracy.

I'm kind of alarmed that a good number of men seem to be buying into garbage belief systems.

I use to just kind of laugh about it but it is seeming less humorous by the day.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

ConanHub said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.
> 
> 
> 
> There is some really weird thinking going on here.
> 
> Girls are just as confused and uncertain as boys when it comes to relationships and sex. I would also say that girls have more to be worried about on top of all the regular confusion that afflicts most young people.
> 
> There really isn't a hypergamy conspiracy with annual meetings going on with women.
> 
> There are easily as many or more broken hearted women as men. Crappy behavior is an unfortunate human characteristic, not a female conspiracy.
> 
> I'm kind of alarmed that a good number of men seem to be buying into garbage belief systems.
> 
> I use to just kind of laugh about it but it is seeming less humorous by the day.
Click to expand...

I agree there are no secret wimmenz meetings. Thats just silly. Hypergamy is an evolutionary survival mechanism for human females.

Think of it like this. Males instinctually want unlimited access to as many fertile women as possible. Its a numbers game. We want to spread our sperm in many directions to ensure survival. We don't think that way of course...its more like wow she has a nice rack, I want to hit that. We don't give a **** if she has a good job with a 401k plan.

But Females as a result of reproducing need provisioning of the children. Optimally, they want a guy with the best genes physically (better survival chances of offspring), and the ability to provide for her children. Often those aren't found in the same guy, because the guys with the superior genes, say 20% of the male population can't be monogamous with all women. So the single mommies may end up with the 20% seed but ultimately need provisioning from the 80% guy. Or if their biological clock is ticking they settle for the 80% guy for provisioning abilities and then a few years later the 20% guy comes along...

Or so the evo-psych theory goes.


----------



## uhtred

I don't think modern humans are very much driven by classical evolutionary pressures. Very few if any billionaires choose to have a thousand children, even though they could legally and morally do so. (with $1M in child support for each, I"m sure it could be arranged).

Many (most?) couples often engage in sex acts that don't lead to pregnancy.

You can try to map all behavior onto "evolution" but it quickly becomes a huge stretch. I chose to work on a project in a remote and difficult environment, for no extra pay why? (because it was "fun", which had nothing to do with evolution). 

What are "superior" genes anyway? I sure wouldn't trade mine for looking (and thinking) like a movie star, or popular athlete. Does that mean my genes are "better", No it just means that *I* like what I am. Other people will like other things.

The people I know who became wealthy didn't dump there "lower quality" wives or husbands for better ones, they stayed with the people they loved. 





UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I agree there are no secret wimmenz meetings. Thats just silly. Hypergamy is an evolutionary survival mechanism for human females.
> 
> Think of it like this. Males instinctually want unlimited access to as many fertile women as possible. Its a numbers game. We want to spread our sperm in many directions to ensure survival. We don't think that way of course...its more like wow she has a nice rack, I want to hit that. We don't give a **** if she has a good job with a 401k plan.
> 
> But Females as a result of reproducing need provisioning of the children. Optimally, they want a guy with the best genes physically (better survival chances of offspring), and the ability to provide for her children. Often those aren't found in the same guy, because the guys with the superior genes, say 20% of the male population can't be monogamous with all women. So the single mommies may end up with the 20% seed but ultimately need provisioning from the 80% guy. Or if their biological clock is ticking they settle for the 80% guy for provisioning abilities and then a few years later the 20% guy comes along...
> 
> Or so the evo-psych theory goes.


----------



## ConanHub

I guess I'm glad that I'm not evolved. I can just skip the whole process.


----------



## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only when they are riding the c-k carousal in their early years. Then they settle down with someone more stable when they want kids.
> 
> 
> 
> There is some really weird thinking going on here.
> 
> Girls are just as confused and uncertain as boys when it comes to relationships and sex. I would also say that girls have more to be worried about on top of all the regular confusion that afflicts most young people.
> 
> There really isn't a hypergamy conspiracy with annual meetings going on with women.
> 
> There are easily as many or more broken hearted women as men. Crappy behavior is an unfortunate human characteristic, not a female conspiracy.
> 
> I'm kind of alarmed that a good number of men seem to be buying into garbage belief systems.
> 
> I use to just kind of laugh about it but it is seeming less humorous by the day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I agree there are no secret wimmenz meetings. Thats just silly. Hypergamy is an evolutionary survival mechanism for human females.
> 
> Think of it like this. Males instinctually want unlimited access to as many fertile women as possible. Its a numbers game. We want to spread our sperm in many directions to ensure survival. We don't think that way of course...its more like wow she has a nice rack, I want to hit that. We don't give a **** if she has a good job with a 401k plan.
> 
> But Females as a result of reproducing need provisioning of the children. Optimally, they want a guy with the best genes physically (better survival chances of offspring), and the ability to provide for her children. Often those aren't found in the same guy, because the guys with the superior genes, say 20% of the male population can't be monogamous with all women. So the single mommies may end up with the 20% seed but ultimately need provisioning from the 80% guy. Or if their biological clock is ticking they settle for the 80% guy for provisioning abilities and then a few years later the 20% guy comes along...
> 
> Or so the evo-psych theory goes.
Click to expand...

It would be great if you would continue your discussion with the men here who don’t buy into it. I feel like as soon as other men challenge you, you stop talking about your cute little theories. You only want to go on and on about it if you think you can insult women and then run away like a child. But other intelligent grown men also don’t believe your nonsense, and you can’t even hold up to the scrutiny long enough to make any sense.


----------



## ConanHub

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I agree there are no secret wimmenz meetings. Thats just silly. Hypergamy is an evolutionary survival mechanism for human females.
> 
> Think of it like this. Males instinctually want unlimited access to as many fertile women as possible. Its a numbers game. We want to spread our sperm in many directions to ensure survival. We don't think that way of course...its more like wow she has a nice rack, I want to hit that. We don't give a **** if she has a good job with a 401k plan.
> 
> But Females as a result of reproducing need provisioning of the children. Optimally, they want a guy with the best genes physically (better survival chances of offspring), and the ability to provide for her children. Often those aren't found in the same guy, because the guys with the superior genes, say 20% of the male population can't be monogamous with all women. So the single mommies may end up with the 20% seed but ultimately need provisioning from the 80% guy. Or if their biological clock is ticking they settle for the 80% guy for provisioning abilities and then a few years later the 20% guy comes along...
> 
> Or so the evo-psych theory goes.


Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.

Mrs. C hooked her wagon to my train when I was very broke and took vows with me when I wasn't much better off.

I literally had dozens of offers for marriage before that and I was a tough pretty young man with no money.

I have heard of a couple of instances, never witnessed, in real life where hypergamy might be argued but there are a lot of men who would do it too.

I would think if something was so universally true that I would have seen it sometime and I have seen quite a bit within the human experience.

If those hypothetical concepts were fact, why has my experience been so radically different?

I've literally never seen hypergamy in action.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

ConanHub said:


> Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.
> 
> Mrs. C hooked her wagon to my train when I was very broke and took vows with me when I wasn't much better off.
> 
> I literally had dozens of offers for marriage before that and I was a tough pretty young man with no money.
> 
> I have heard of a couple of instances, never witnessed, in real life where hypergamy might be argued but there are a lot of men who would do it too.
> 
> I would think if something was so universally true that I would have seen it sometime and I have seen quite a bit within the human experience.
> 
> If those hypothetical concepts were fact, why has my experience been so radically different?
> 
> I've literally never seen hypergamy in action.


It doesn't mean all females will trade up. If you are the best they believe they can get, then you have nothing to worry about. Maybe your other attributes made up for your lack of affluence at that point in your life.


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.
> 
> Mrs. C hooked her wagon to my train when I was very broke and took vows with me when I wasn't much better off.
> 
> I literally had dozens of offers for marriage before that and I was a tough pretty young man with no money.
> 
> I have heard of a couple of instances, never witnessed, in real life where hypergamy might be argued but there are a lot of men who would do it too.
> 
> I would think if something was so universally true that I would have seen it sometime and I have seen quite a bit within the human experience.
> 
> If those hypothetical concepts were fact, why has my experience been so radically different?
> 
> I've literally never seen hypergamy in action.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean all females will trade up. If you are the best they believe they can get, then you have nothing to worry about. Maybe your other attributes made up for your lack of affluence at that point in your life.
Click to expand...

So this is how you feel about women, and yet you expect to sleep with them.

How ttuly......sad


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

uhtred said:


> I don't think modern humans are very much driven by classical evolutionary pressures. Very few if any billionaires choose to have a thousand children, even though they could legally and morally do so. (with $1M in child support for each, I"m sure it could be arranged).
> 
> Many (most?) couples often engage in sex acts that don't lead to pregnancy.


Well, the preferred method is still PIV as far as I know and that certainly leads to babies. But since humans are rational, they can figure out putting on a condom overrides paying child support for the next 18 years. If there were no birth control, most men wouldnt stand a chance regardless of child support. 



> You can try to map all behavior onto "evolution" but it quickly becomes a huge stretch. I chose to work on a project in a remote and difficult environment, for no extra pay why? (because it was "fun", which had nothing to do with evolution).


Not really following how that has any bearing on anything. I'm not saying people are functioning solely on their lizard brain. I'm only saying it's there. It's like a horse with a rider on its back, the rider can always make it turn directions or stop.



> What are "superior" genes anyway? I sure wouldn't trade mine for looking (and thinking) like a movie star, or popular athlete. Does that mean my genes are "better", No it just means that *I* like what I am. Other people will like other things.


Think back thousands of years when nobody worked in an office, had a computer and there was no modern warfare. It was all brute force which encompasses the greatest part of human history. Basically, if you were gifted with athletic abilities, you had more survival chances...from hunting to plowing fields to fighting. If you were an imp like Tyrion in GOT, you had one chance and that is having a rich dad, otherwise you were good as dead. Nobody cared how good at math you were. Of course, women would choose the best specimen since that meant they have the greatest chance of survival and their children would inherit the best genes to thrive in a harsh environment. If I were a woman in that time period, I would pick the jock over the math geek, lol.



> The people I know who became wealthy didn't dump there "lower quality" wives or husbands for better ones, they stayed with the people they loved.


Which became rich? The husband or wife of the marriage?


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

personofinterest said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.
> 
> Mrs. C hooked her wagon to my train when I was very broke and took vows with me when I wasn't much better off.
> 
> I literally had dozens of offers for marriage before that and I was a tough pretty young man with no money.
> 
> I have heard of a couple of instances, never witnessed, in real life where hypergamy might be argued but there are a lot of men who would do it too.
> 
> I would think if something was so universally true that I would have seen it sometime and I have seen quite a bit within the human experience.
> 
> If those hypothetical concepts were fact, why has my experience been so radically different?
> 
> I've literally never seen hypergamy in action.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean all females will trade up. If you are the best they believe they can get, then you have nothing to worry about. Maybe your other attributes made up for your lack of affluence at that point in your life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So this is how you feel about women, and yet you expect to sleep with them.
> 
> How ttuly......sad
Click to expand...

I did fairly well after my divorce. Its not like I had very deep conversations with many of them. But now I'm a one woman simp again. I am as loyal as a guard dog, as long as they are loyal back.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I did fairly well after my divorce. Its not like I had very deep conversations with many of them. But now I'm a one woman simp again. I am as loyal as a guard dog, as long as they are loyal back.


Then why are constantly going on about riding the c-ck carousel before settling down, you're no different.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did fairly well after my divorce. Its not like I had very deep conversations with many of them. But now I'm a one woman simp again. I am as loyal as a guard dog, as long as they are loyal back.
> 
> 
> 
> Then why are constantly going on about riding the c-ck carousel before settling down, you're no different.
Click to expand...

Because I'm a man and I play by different rules 🙂.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Because I'm a man and I play by different rules 🙂.


How convenient you don't think it applies to you.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because I'm a man and I play by different rules 🙂.
> 
> 
> 
> How convenient you don't think it applies to you.
Click to expand...

Never once met a woman that complained or cared. But I chose my current GF in part for her very low count.


----------



## Tiggy!

ConanHub said:


> Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.


I do believe in evolution but most of this bs is just pseudoscience trying to pass off as evolution to seem valid.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Never once met a woman that complained or cared. But I chose my current GF in part for her very low count.


I have met plenty, the terms f*ck boy, groupon peen and communal c*ck didn't come around because no women care.

I highly doubt you've asked every women you've met what they think about f*ck boys, but the the fact the women you have been with didn't care doesn't change the fact you are no different than the women who as you say ride the c*ck carousal ans settle down.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never once met a woman that complained or cared. But I chose my current GF in part for her very low count.
> 
> 
> 
> I have met plenty, the terms f*ck boy, groupon peen and communal c*ck didn't come around because no women care.
Click to expand...

Never heard any of those in my life. I certainly didnt register a count to be included in that company, unfortunatly. But, I'd gladly give them all a high five.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Never heard any of those in my life. I certainly didnt register a count to be included in that company, unfortunatly. But, I'd gladly give them all a high five.


You learn something new everyday, until a came on here I never heard the term '**** carousal' and and 'spinning plates' (which seems to be the made up non descriptive name for a h*e that RP males apply to themselves).


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Never heard any of those in my life. I certainly didnt register a count to be included in that company, unfortunatly. But, I'd gladly give them all a high five.
> 
> 
> 
> You learn something new everyday, I never heard the term '**** carousal' and and 'spinning plates' (which seems to be the made up non descriptive name for a h*e that RP males apply to themselves).
Click to expand...

The fact remains, its far better to be a male ho than a female ho any day of the week, unless you mean ho in the literal sense as then it clearly pays women better. Call it hypocrisy or whatever, that is still how it works.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> The fact remains, its far better to be a male ho than a female ho any day of the week, unless you mean ho in the literal sense as then it clearly pays women better. Call it hypocrisy or whatever, that is still how it works.


I don't need to call it hypocrisy because it is hypocrisy, whether I call it hypocrisy or not. What does the 'fact' you think it's better to be a male h*e than a female h*e have to do with anything?
That doesn't change the fact "plate spinners" or the ones who want to high five them are no different to the women they constantly whine about.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The fact remains, its far better to be a male ho than a female ho any day of the week, unless you mean ho in the literal sense as then it clearly pays women better. Call it hypocrisy or whatever, that is still how it works.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to call it hypocrisy because it is hypocrisy, whether I call it hypocrisy or not. What does the 'fact' you think it's better it be a male h*e than a female h*e have to do with anything?
> That doesn't change the fact "plate spinners" or the ones who want to high five them are no different to the women they constantly whine about.
Click to expand...

Because hypocrisy or not, **** shaming isn't the same for men as it is for women. Anyone can acknowledge that. Maybe you should be asking why that is... My guess is it has something to do with paternity. Women are ultimately the ones that reproduce, they are the gatekeepers.


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> *Because hypocrisy or not, **** shaming isn't the same for men as it is for women*. Anyone can acknowledge that. Maybe you should be asking why that is... My guess is it has something to do with paternity. Women are ultimately the ones that reproduce, they are the gatekeepers.


Oh I can acknowledge that it women get sl*t shamed more than men (although the amounts are cultural) , I can also acknowledge that's a poor justification for whining about women doing what they do themselves.

Technically any one who denies sex is the gatekeeper, so stop 'spinning plates' (being a communal c*ck) and viola..... no more c*ck carousel.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Because hypocrisy or not, **** shaming isn't the same for men as it is for women*. Anyone can acknowledge that. Maybe you should be asking why that is... My guess is it has something to do with paternity. Women are ultimately the ones that reproduce, they are the gatekeepers.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh I can acknowledge that it women get sl*t shamed more than men (although the amounts are cultural) , I can also acknowledge that's a poor justification for whining about women doing what they do themselves.
> 
> Technically any one who denies sex is the gatekeeper, so stop 'spinning plates' (being a communal c*ck) and viola..... no more c*ck carousel.
Click to expand...

Well, I guess you can always go on the Maury Povich show and petition for patenity. Its always entertaining ...especially the ones that come back multiple times...SMDH....


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, I guess you can always go on the Maury Povich show and petition for patenity. Its always entertaining ...especially the ones that come back multiple times...SMDH....


Don't be so dramatic...... just get a test from amazon
https://www.amazon.com/STK-Paternity-Test-Kit-Fees/dp/B005Y34OKA

Or men could just stop sleeping with women they're not in relationships with, then this wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

Tiggy! said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I guess you can always go on the Maury Povich show and petition for patenity. Its always entertaining ...especially the ones that come back multiple times...SMDH....
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be so dramatic...... just get a test from amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/STK-Paternity-Test-Kit-Fees/dp/B005Y34OKA
Click to expand...

100 dolla? Maury gives them for free for all 10 possible baby daddies!


----------



## Tiggy!

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> 100 dolla? Maury gives them for free for all 10 possible baby daddies!


Yeh but you get publicly outed as a beta buck, since women only want alphas your 'spinning plates' is going to take a hit. Unless he's been 'spinning plates' as well, then he can find go find one of his biological kids and stop being a dead beat dad.


----------



## NobodySpecial

uhtred said:


> I don't think modern humans are very much driven by classical evolutionary pressures. Very few if any billionaires choose to have a thousand children, even though they could legally and morally do so. (with $1M in child support for each, I"m sure it could be arranged).
> 
> Many (most?) couples often engage in sex acts that don't lead to pregnancy.
> 
> You can try to map all behavior onto "evolution" but it quickly becomes a huge stretch. I chose to work on a project in a remote and difficult environment, for no extra pay why? (because it was "fun", which had nothing to do with evolution).


I agree with you. I actually go one step further in my thinking that evo-psych is lazy thinking to justify maladaptive behaviors.



> What are "superior" genes anyway? I sure wouldn't trade mine for looking (and thinking) like a movie star, or popular athlete. Does that mean my genes are "better", No it just means that *I* like what I am. Other people will like other things.


Lol! My daughter would tell you that the genes that yielded only 2 wisdom teeth in her are superior to those of us with 4 since she only needs to have 2 removed.




> The people I know who became wealthy didn't dump there "lower quality" wives or husbands for better ones, they stayed with the people they loved.


Most of us don't have the opportunity!


----------



## personofinterest

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ConanHub said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. So first, I don't buy evolution and, even if I did, I still wouldn't buy the other theories or hypothesis that are being tossed around here.
> 
> Mrs. C hooked her wagon to my train when I was very broke and took vows with me when I wasn't much better off.
> 
> I literally had dozens of offers for marriage before that and I was a tough pretty young man with no money.
> 
> I have heard of a couple of instances, never witnessed, in real life where hypergamy might be argued but there are a lot of men who would do it too.
> 
> I would think if something was so universally true that I would have seen it sometime and I have seen quite a bit within the human experience.
> 
> If those hypothetical concepts were fact, why has my experience been so radically different?
> 
> I've literally never seen hypergamy in action.
> 
> 
> 
> It doesn't mean all females will trade up. If you are the best they believe they can get, then you have nothing to worry about. Maybe your other attributes made up for your lack of affluence at that point in your life.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So this is how you feel about women, and yet you expect to sleep with them.
> 
> How ttuly......sad
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I did fairly well after my divorce. Its not like I had very deep conversations with many of them. But now I'm a one woman simp again. I am as loyal as a guard dog, as long as they are loyal back.
Click to expand...

 I think someone should tell your one woman how you feel about the female gender. I know I wouldn't want to be sharing my bed with a man who hates the gender I am a part of period


----------



## NobodySpecial

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> It doesn't mean all females will trade up. If you are the best they believe they can get, then you have nothing to worry about. Maybe your other attributes made up for your lack of affluence at that point in your life.


That's uniquely puke worthy.


----------



## uhtred

I don't know sexual preferences, but I think other activities like oral are very popular and a significant number or people prefer it to PIV. Certainly many couples frequently engage in oral when they could instead have PIV, which evolution should strongly favor.

Even the lizard brain may not point the direction you see. If you look at ancient (>10,000 year old) female figures (presumed fertility figures), they do not at all match modern ideas of beauty. The lizard brain would presumably prefer healthy, heavy women, with wide hips to improve survival chances for child birth. If you look at historical art though, you see that the ideal of female and male beauty changes with time and place. 

Evolution can change behavior quite quickly, see the russian red fox experiment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_red_fox

We have had complex civilization long enough for people's behavior to have changed significantly. 


All that said, there are certainly *some* women who marry for money or power, and some men who marry for appearance. Its just no where near universal. 

A significant number of women are attracted to strong muscular men, but a significant number are not. Hollywood male stars probably are a reasonable sampling of what different women (and men..) like - and there is a lot of variation, presumably because there is a lot of variation in what women find attractive. 

War hasn't been about brute force for a very long time. Julius Cesar, Alexander, Augustus, Quin She Huang, Napoleon, Queen Elizabeth I, were not famous for their physical prowess, but for their leadership and organizational abilities. Rome didn't conquer the Mediterranean world because their soldiers were bigger and stronger, they won because they had organization, supply lines etc that let their soldiers fight effectively. 

Game of Thrones is fantasy. Its fun, but real sieges were generally sieges. The army camps outside and the winner is the side that doesn't run out of food. Even when there walled cities were actually stormed the leaders were generally smart enough not to be on the front lines. 


A lot of this ties back to thing like the "ladder theory', the idea that you can rank all potential mates. Its very unlikely that your and my ranking of women would look at all similar, or that two different women would rank men in at all of a similar fashion. There are some things that are generally positive -most people prefer health, lack of deformities, competency, etc etc. but they may weight those completely differently. 

To me a woman's interest in colliding neutron stars is much more important that the size of her boobs. I suspect that a significant number of men would disagree. 

A woman in ancient Rome would probably do better marrying a philosopher, or a fat wealthy merchant, than marrying a legionary soldier. 







UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, the preferred method is still PIV as far as I know and that certainly leads to babies. But since humans are rational, they can figure out putting on a condom overrides paying child support for the next 18 years. If there were no birth control, most men wouldnt stand a chance regardless of child support.
> 
> 
> 
> Not really following how that has any bearing on anything. I'm not saying people are functioning solely on their lizard brain. I'm only saying it's there. It's like a horse with a rider on its back, the rider can always make it turn directions or stop.
> 
> 
> 
> Think back thousands of years when nobody worked in an office, had a computer and there was no modern warfare. It was all brute force which encompasses the greatest part of human history. Basically, if you were gifted with athletic abilities, you had more survival chances...from hunting to plowing fields to fighting. If you were an imp like Tyrion in GOT, you had one chance and that is having a rich dad, otherwise you were good as dead. Nobody cared how good at math you were. Of course, women would choose the best specimen since that meant they have the greatest chance of survival and their children would inherit the best genes to thrive in a harsh environment. If I were a woman in that time period, I would pick the jock over the math geek, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Which became rich? The husband or wife of the marriage?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Thanks @uhtred and @ConanHub

Doubtful that upsidedown will continue to discuss this with you since you don't agree with him. But I'd like to see it happen.


----------



## Tiggy!

Faithful Wife said:


> Thanks @uhtred and @ConanHub
> 
> Doubtful that upsidedown will continue to discuss this with you since you don't agree with him. But I'd like to see it happen.


Have you met many guy's with this irrational attitude IRL?, thankfully I haven't.


----------



## Faithful Wife

Tiggy! said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks @uhtred and @ConanHub
> 
> Doubtful that upsidedown will continue to discuss this with you since you don't agree with him. But I'd like to see it happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Have you met many guy's with this irrational attitude IRL?, thankfully I haven't.
Click to expand...

Guys like that hide who they are. So it’s possible I’ve met them but wouldn’t have known it. Or perhaps my “I love the **** carousel” tattoo on my forehead makes those guys decide not to talk to me. 

I did have a girlfriend who was dating a guy who had bought that original “secret” guys handbook (can’t remember what it was called now). It was a whole system of PUA stuff, and instructed the readers to never tell anyone else the secrets, especially not women. It was negging and that kind of crap. And of course it painted women as brazen hypergamous *****s who really do want to **** you, you just have to make her think you are in the 20% before she will spread her legs.

So I kind of knew that guy, only as a guy my friend was dating. I never knew him well.

When they broke up, he did all kinds of weird immature things, stalked the new guy she was seeing, tried to poison their common social group against her. A real winner. Not.

I do think he was/is just an idiot with poor emotional regulation. I don’t think he would have physically hurt her. But he did say things to try to scare her into thinking he might.

Dude, perhaps the reason you felt the need to find a way to trick women into liking you is that you are unlikable? And why are so many guys who spew the same kind of things you “learned” also unlikeable? What is the common theme here....hmmmmmm


----------



## ConanHub

I just had some work at an airport and got to observe many couples.

Among the mismatched and multi shaped couples, I saw a truly lovely young woman with a fairly diminutive and nerdy young man.

She took the lead in interaction and I could tell she was at least the social leader of the two.

She could not hide the very strong love she had for her man every time she looked at him.

According to hypergamy he must be the best she believed she could get?

Maybe he was rich?

Evopsych or hypergamy hypotheses seems so incredibly lacking in explaining true affection and love.

Some traits are certainly attractive to most but that is just common sense and, in no way, significantly impacts mate choice.

I have seen very beautiful women deeply in love with their physically unattractive and only moderately successful husbands because they just really love them.

This hypothesis doesn't apply to me either.

Mrs. Conan is cute and sexy. I love her like I have loved no other.

She is not a model. I dated very beautiful and exotic women that were models and some of them were well off to boot.

I had offers of lifetime commitments from more than a few of them.

According to the "evolutionary ranking system" I must be severely defective for turning them down in favor of a short, decade older than me, single mother with two divorces under her belt.

There are quite a few "mismatched" couples out there that will go to their grave having never experienced infidelity or divorce and having had very happy marriages.

Screw evopsych and hypergamy.

It's all bull**** as far as this barbarian is concerned.

Mrs. Conan and I are proving these weird hypotheses wrong every day of our lives.

This August will mark 24 years with my ring on her finger and this October will mark 28 since one of the happiest days of my life when lightning struck me in the form of a 5' nothing brunette accepting a date with me.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Faithful Wife said:


> Guys like that hide who they are. So it’s possible I’ve met them but wouldn’t have known it. Or perhaps my “I love the **** carousel” tattoo on my forehead makes those guys decide not to talk to me.


They let you know... AFTER you have said Um No. Not interested.


----------



## wild jade

Tiggy! said:


> Don't be so dramatic...... just get a test from amazon
> https://www.amazon.com/STK-Paternity-Test-Kit-Fees/dp/B005Y34OKA
> 
> Or men could just stop sleeping with women they're not in relationships with, then this wouldn't be a problem.


I don't think guys who spin plates are actually all that interested in paternity. Most deny it so they can avoid the responsibility of child care. Or avoid paternity in the first place with some birth control

It's an interesting form of hypocrisy. If guys who spin plates cared so much about paternity, you'd think they'd pay some attention to how far they're trying to spread that seed. But no, of course, not. They just spread seed with nary a thought of the consequences, then get mad at women because when they decide they want to settle down and have kids, they're not quite sure where to find them.


----------



## MattMatt

Some men like bad girls.


----------



## Faithful Wife

MattMatt said:


> Some men like bad girls.


Hmmmm.

I would agree, and I also like bad girls. However, this picture doesn't make me think of a bad girl at all.


----------



## AliceA

This conversation reminds me of an episode of "How I Met Your Mother" and the whole 'reacher' and 'settler' theory.

"The Two People In A Relationship: The Settler And The Reacher. Every relationship has what “How I Met Your Mother” has dubbed a settler and a reacher. In other words, one person in the relationship settles for the other, who is involved in a relationship with someone out of his or her league, the settler."
https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/the-settler-and-the-reacher-relationship

I've seen what I think were examples of both sides: man as reacher, then woman as reacher.

I did have a conversation with one guy who I think a few might label the settler in his relationship, and his relationship started because she was extremely persistent and he initially felt protective of her. Now they're very much in love. It's a cute story.

As for 'bad boys', the main thing I've noticed is that selfishness/arrogance can initially come off as just confidence. People in general are attracted to confidence. Examples of this are everywhere. Women in particular are most likely *NOT* going to be attracted to someone who doesn't think he's good enough for her (IMO), because it's draining to constantly have to boost someone's ego. Sometimes you scratch below the surface and the confidence is backed up by a good heart, and sometimes there's just an arsehole underneath.


----------



## uhtred

Not always. In my case neither of us reached or settled. That doesn't mean either of us is perfect, but there is no sort of hierarchy where one is better than the other. 




AliceA said:


> This conversation reminds me of an episode of "How I Met Your Mother" and the whole 'reacher' and 'settler' theory.
> 
> "The Two People In A Relationship: The Settler And The Reacher. Every relationship has what “How I Met Your Mother” has dubbed a settler and a reacher. In other words, one person in the relationship settles for the other, who is involved in a relationship with someone out of his or her league, the settler."
> https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/sex/the-settler-and-the-reacher-relationship
> 
> .


----------

