# Counseling impact on our family life...



## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

I haven't posted in a while. A lot going on trying to address long neglected issues in our marriage via counseling. However, a new wrinkle in the scenario seems to be building and I need imput. 

The abridged version is that counseling has led my husband to the direction that his very difficult childhood is affecting every facet of his adult life and relationships. He has abandonment/trust issues from his mom walking out. He is struggling to deal with his father's abuse. He is in significant denial of how that has stunted his ability to relate emotionally with us, his family. It is a big heavy load and I fear he is about to break through and finally feel the pain, anger and denial that he has lived with for so long. 

In my head and heart I understand he has to take this journey in order to have any hope of having a happy life. He has lived closed off for so long. His paridigim is shifting and he is clearly unsure of himself and there is so much anger floating to the surface. Unfortunately, we are having to deal with it too and it is not going so well. 

An incident happened last week that has me very worried for two reasons 

A. his response seemed out of control and inappropriate to the scale of the situation. 

B. he is minimizing his response and creating distrust/fear in the girls. (me too as it make me wonder what he will do next)

Here is what happened. 

The girls were getting ready for school. Amy, while headed out the door took a pen that belonged to Carrie. Carrie demanded the pen back. They hopped into the car still bickering about the precious pen. In the car with the bickering intensifying, their dad told Amy to give the pen back to Carrie. 

In response, Amy flung the pen at Carrie, hitting Carrie in the chin with the pen. 

According to my husband, he reacted by grabbing Amy by the arm (hard by his own admission) and shoving her into the car door hard enough that she hit her head on the window. 

The bus came. Both girls got onto the bus crying. They are 13 and 11. 

He came back to the house in an absolute state. As he told me what transpired, he paced back in forth yelling about their out of control behavior. He was convinced Amy was going to report him to the school for child abuse (a notion I thought was a gross over exaggeration and a bit paranoid). He then started going on and on about his "triggers" and how angry he gets at the way Amy treats Carrie. 

Now let me back this up a bit: these girls are really good kids. They are also really normal. They do have spats and they do dumb things sometimes but essentially (and compared to stories I hear from othe parents) they treat one another very well. 

As I listened to him rant and rave, I felt really shocked. To hear him talk about the girls as if they were terrible kids blew me away. They are smart, get good grades always behave themselves at school and for the most part at home. The way he was going on about them was like he was talking about someone else's horrible kids. He went on and on about their bickering, their noise levels, their messiness etc et al. 

All I kept thinking as he went on and on was "what they hell? Our kids are fun to be with! They are normal kids! Their funny and entertaining. They are good people that other parents want their kids around. Where is this coming from"

When he finally puttered down from his tyriad, I quietly said "you need to talk with Amy as soon as she gets home. You need to apologize for completely over reacting. Discuss what and for how long she will be grounded for throwing the pen at her sister. Make the punishment fit the crime and be realistic about what the true issues was". Then I walked away. 

Fast forward to the girls coming home from school.

Both walked in the door. Carrie, who always deals with stuff up front, first thing came in and said "Dad completely over reacted. It was really scary"

Amy, who is always very private about problems just quietly said "Dad over reacted. He is really loosing it".

Both girls avoided interacting with him the rest of the night. He lingered around us but didn't engage. He made everyone milkshakes and went to bed without saying a word to the girls about the "incident". 

The next morning, after I took the girls to the bus stop, I said to my husband "Are you going to talk with Amy about what happened?" 

Instant anger and blow out!!!!! He yelled at me "I will F*&king deal with it when the time is right! My back was killing me last night and there was no time to take care of it!!!!" Then he stormed out the door to work. 

When he came home that night he acted as if he didn't yell or cuss at me. Like everything was just ducky. I called him on it. He said he didn't like my tone and I need to learn to just leave him alone. 

EXCUSE ME? He created a situation where the kids were nervous around him and flew off the handle at them and let if fester....I told him he had to go talk with Amy NOW! 

He went and talked with her outside. She was crying when she came in. I hugged her and asked how it went. She said he lectured her about her behavior and said if she would learn to control herself, he wouldn't get so angry. 

I asked if he apologised. She said "kinda". 

The fact that he put it on her, I feel is wrong. He is the adult. He lost control of his behavior. I know this incident has really affected the kids as he has never been physical with them before and now they are afraid of his temper. 

I am also worried because he doesn't seem to recognise or has rationalized his behavior and placed the blame on a child!

Our next couseling session is not for another week and I am worried my husbands growing emotional termoil will create further chaos with the kids and myself.

Any suggestions? Sorry this is so long. I changed the girls names out of privacy issues.


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## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

Wow. 23 views and no advice?


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## Almost30 (Jan 19, 2012)

Hi nnoodle.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. It sounds as though you have been very patient with your husband to this point. I have dealt with this type of behaviour from my husband for a very long time and my only suggestion is that you don't do the same.
I was very impressed with how you handled the situation. I don't believe I was mature enough to handle my situation the same way.

I also know how hard it is to stand up to a man ranting on. I know in my case it just seems to make things worse. However, I have a great deal of regret that I didn't try harder when my children were younger to get through to him about how unfair his behavious was/is.

I wish you all the best. I hope that counselling helps, at least he is willing to go. Perhaps the counselling has brought up issues which have frightened him? By that I mean, he may be starting to see the truth about his behaviour and that scares him? 

Of course that doesn't make the over reacting, and certainly not the physical harm, okay. 

It seems you are doing all you can do right now. It will be up to you whether you feel it is worth hanging in there.

Good luck.


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## ICouples (Jan 13, 2012)

Hi noodle,
sorry about the situation you are in at the moment. From what I can understand, you should discuss the incident plainly during the counselling session and see if the violent reaction may hide other more serious issues.

On the overall, though, let me share with you my views on some counselling sessions. It's not all gold that glitters and sometimes these counsellors haven't got a bloody clue about what is going on. A person near to me has been using counselling session for over two years now and she completely trusts the counsellor. The thing is that everybody and his dog could give the same advice that the counsellor gives. It's just common sense!

This brings me to two questions.

A. Are you sure that you need counselling sessions in the first place (of course there's no shame in that) or probably another therapy/approach would be better?

B. If you do need one, are you sure you are seeing the right person?

I apologize if I may sound cynic but it's always better to go at the heart of the problem.

Best of luck!


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## specwar (Apr 14, 2011)

There really is no such thing as a quick response to the several issues that are going on here. 

It is important that your husband and the children own their reactions/over reactions. These can be handled during family meetings. 

Is your husband the type that must always be right? If so then that hurdle must be dealt with by using different strategies. A person/any person must be willing that an act went over the line (shoving her into the door). It doen't mean you are a failure. It means that you are human and you use it as a teaching moment.

Example: Shireley I am sorry I shoved you into the door this morning. I didn't mean to hurt you. When you hurt your sister by throwing the pen and hitting her and not listening I meant to grab your arm I simply got too excited and unintentially hurt you by shoving you into the door. It won't happen again but why were you throwing a fit about giving your sister her pen back?

Then you can morph the conversation into the importance of sharing as a family each others stuff. Your husband can talk about the safety of not misbehaving in the car because it can cause distracted driving.

At the end of the day the single biggest thing that will help will be if your children have more positive interactions with your husband. They/he may be uncomfortable around them because of the baggage that he carries around. It is equally important that he understand and be a thinking adult. 

I saw the things that my family did good and bad and made a conscious decision to purge those things that were bad. TRY TO GET HIM TO ADMIT THAT BEING WRONG IS OK. That goes for all of us. I find far too often that adults are unwilling to admit weakness. I learned this from my father. I later learned that it gives you strength and intellectual integrity with those around you because we all know that none of us are always right. 

It also has the secondary effect of helping others to feel it is ok to let their shortcomings be known. It helps us work together as a team if we know and can compensate for each others weeknesses.

I know this didn't answer all of your underlying questions. That would take 50 pages of dialogue. But it is a start.


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## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

LOL: if our commication skills were at the level you describe regarding family meetings I don't think we would be in the position we are now! 

Those are the kind of conversations I have with the girls but my husband is the "paceing, stand over you, lecture type". Lots of him talking at you but little to no listening and exhange, if you know what I mean. 

And admit he is wrong? LOL. In all the years when have been together I have never heard an "I am sorry. I was wrong" 

Its "I am sorry but if you had...." or "Sorry but...."

I have seen him twist like a kite in the wind to explain away his actions/reactions. It can be quite impressive really. 

When I apologize to the kids when I get out of line it really ticks him off! He says it gives them "ammunition" to use against me. As if this is a war with them? 

When I apologize to him it turns into "Good, now next time...." and the lecture ensues. Seriously? I just said I was sorry and I meant it. I was wrong...what more do you want? Or better yet, he gloats. That gets frustrating. 

I have found a genuine apology and addressing a wrong goes much further to repair relationships than anything else. Some of the best healing moments/bonding I ever had came when I owned up to my actions. Not just with my girls but other family members and friends.

As I have gotten older and somewhat wiser, I find owning up to be far more freeing and makes me happier. 

Maybe that is part of the issue. I feel as though I am growing in leaps and bounds right now in my relationship with my parents (who live far away), my siblings and my children. In those areas there is a new kindness, honesty and openness that has been a long time in coming. I feel so good in those areas and I want that in my marriage too. 

Sadly, the more I feel committed to getting there and working on it, the more unravelled my husband seems to be getting.


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## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

ICouples:

I have a lot of confidence in our counselor for several reasons. 

He is very honest about what he thinks he can provide for us. In my last session he told me he may recommend my husband go to another service as hubby's issues may be out of our counselor's realm of expertise. That type of honesty reassures me our counselor is dedicated to everyone's well being. 

Our counselor calls me out when he thinks I am avoiding my role in enabling my husband. I have a strong personality and need someone who will be painfully honest. He does so in a way that is forceful but kind. I need that. I have actively "protected" my husband for years in a way which has helped him have a life which appears to function but doesn't emotionally. I have to own that and figure out why I engaged in it for so long to my own detriment. 

Lastly, our couselor has a great sense of humor and irony which helps in such a tough situation. I may cry in our sessions but I also laugh too which heals a bit. 

May sound like odd criteria but it works for me.


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I can only go by what you write. Your husband seems to love his kids. I wouldnt like my kids saying I have 'lost' it or other such language. Do they hear that from you. I dont think you should be telling him how to treat his kids or to apologise to them. Give him a bit more credit to do things his way.


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## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

Accept: the kids saying he has "lost it" are their words and perception of his behavior. They are 11,13 and 20. Not sure what age children you are exposed to but most kids have a concept of rational behavior. 

As to me telling him how to treat "his kids", they are our kids. If he is behaving in a way that is intimidating, hurtful and aggressive I have every right as a parent to address it. Also note, none of my conversations with him about the situation happened in front of the kids. I addressed him. 

He has been and continues to be a very uninvolved parent despite them and myself asking him to interact more for years. The only time he really interacts (and especially lately) it to berate and lecture them. 


If you think lecturing a kid constantly, shoving them around and refusing to apologise for your mistakes is healthy parenting, I really don't have much to say other than good luck with having a positive, healthy relationship with your children now and as they grow into adulthood. 

What does healthy parenting look like to you?


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## specwar (Apr 14, 2011)

I would be interested (if I were in your position) as to why he feels he is in a battle/competition with the children unless you (as a couple are not showing a united front or are undermining each other. The old (mommy, dad said this) which in turn get a huge reaction out of you. Those discussions/fight should be out of range of the children.

He holds all of the cards. There is no competition. It is your family against the world and you should be working together to create the warmest/safest environment you can for yourselves and your children. Is that not the goal.

What are his goals for your family/children. Does he have any. Maybe ask. It sounds like he is threatened by something. 

Another great exercise is to thank each other for the things we do every day. Such as "Thank you honey for getting the milk". Positive reinforcement consistently (not every second or it gets annoying) creates positive moments between you both and makes you more willing to listen to what the other person is saying. Because we want others to like us. 

He may feel that weekness is the enemy and leads to all sorts of bad things. I am a former special forces operator and you can tell him that being quiet and listening doesn't mean your week. It means you understand what is going on around you and see things as they are instead of how your (feelings) allow you to see them. Will some people take calmness for weekness. (yes). Will your kids (once in a great while).They are growing emotionally and that means testing the limits periodically. There is great power ( in my opinion) in when to show anger, joy, and disappointment. Life has them all. The important thing is to handle each with dignity. 

That is why it so important to have agreed on punishments for behavior and do them (early and often) (consciously without rage) at the first sign of breaking the rules. Another way to do it that I have used is to pull the emotion out of the discussion by asking a question with a calm voice and not using the words you and using more we statements (since we are a team)

I remember I asked my father once (have you realized that in the 17 years I have been alive you have never once admitted that you were wrong about something. Is that because you are never wrong??? or is that because you won't admit when you are.....I said it with a calm voice and he just about shot straight through the ceiling. But he replayed that in his mind over and over for days when he was alone as we all do when others critisize us.

We always preach to our children to learn from our mistakes and yet if you don't admit yours you are denying the children the chance to learn how you use critical thinking to work through mistakes and problems. Again what are his/your goals. 

I would think one of the main goals in a parents life is to teach your children to be smarter and wiser than you are so hopefully they won't have to make the same stupid mistakes we made as young people.

Some counselors are good. Some are bad. I have seen equal parts of each. I can't stand the ones who speak in broad statements without saying anything or assigning blame. The ones who enable by constantly bringing up the causes of a persons actions. I believe it is better to identify the things that cause your environment to be negative and create a plan to alter the outcome of future events. 

Otherwise they become the (crutch) of how I can't bla bla because when I was a kid bla bla bla. How about we deal with what is instead of what was and put our big pants on. 

I am a big believer in corner and communicate but have learned to not raise my voice so others don't feel threatened. A loooooot of stress in a situation comes from the voice and emotion. The cowards way out is to get mad and storm out. The hard part is to disagree and stay. And to be consistent at doing this with the understanding that it is ok to disagree but it is not ok to tear each other down. If a family member can not stop personally attacking sombody, then the problem is perspective. That must be changed. Consistency consistency consistency. 

If he will not listen to those giving him counsel it is most likely because he does not put value in their ideas. You have to find somebody that he does respect (who does he speak highly of). Or ask him why he does not respect you enough to understand that you want to help him with his relationships with your children. I tell my wife often that if we had girls I would be asking her advice all the time because girls see things quite differently than boys. I also remind her that we are raising boys and that I know how to do that and sometimes she needs to defer to me. We agree that we will not always see eye to eye but we will talk about it either way.


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## Almost30 (Jan 19, 2012)

I hear a lot of advice similar to that given here, which I believe is very well-meant, but in my case and, though I would not presume to know, but I suspect from your post, yours also nnoodle, it is based on an assumption - that your husband is a rational man whose world does not revolve around himself. 
Forgive me if I am casting aspursions but in my case I have found that I've tried all the 'united front' advice, but when a child (even adult children) are berated and put down, under the guise of 'advice' and 'chastising', I cannot be united with him - I would then be a party to the abuse.
Talking to my husband in a rational way has achieved nothing, and having to 'go behind his back' simply to give my children a semblance of a healthy family life goes against the grain. I WANT him to be a co-parent but his view of parenting is control, his view of pride in a child's accomplishment is basking in any reflected glory.

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread here nnoodle, I just wanted you to know there are others out there who understand that the advice which might work for others won't necessarily work in such situations.


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## nnoodle (Jul 10, 2011)

Almost30: you're not hijacking at all, just responding. And I appreciate that. 

Our situation is a very hard one. The move to go to counseling was my descision as I was at the breaking point of frustration. So tired of begging for a partner in life that cares about our family! It is really hard to be in a relationship for 17+ years and realize your mate has no comprehension how to relate to people emotionally. (for more back story, read some of my older postings).

Needless to say, abandonment by your mother, several marriages and divorces by both your father and mother and significant abuse in the home does not do much for a person later in life when they never deal with those losses/issues. 

The more I've learned about his early life, the more I realized how blessed I was to grow up in the home I did. My parents were not perfect but our home life sure was a lot better foundation than I realized. 

Anyhow, my husband is finding ways to avoid our next counseling session. He has know the date and time for two weeks (one he chose) and just now informed me he is unable to attend. That is two sessions in a row he has skipped last minute. 

So, I will go it alone and hope he comes back to the table so to speak.....


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