# seems like i hit a wall



## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

ok so i ahve posted a little about my situation here, and i can honestly say i have learned A LOT from this forum. it has also helped me vent, and allowed me to help others and warn them of the traps i fell into.
in any event.
i have spent the last six months (last d-day june 8th or so) trying to process and get past all of the hurt and betrayal in my marriage. from both sides, as in the things i did, and the things she did. basically being selfish children and having ZERO respect for our marriage or each other.
for the first five months, i really started to devote myself to being a "better" husband and father. i worked out a lot. am well on the road to being a permanent non-smoker (yay me!)...i got myslef happy about myself. we spent a lot of time together, made family outings, had fun, laughed, loved talked about the future and our children and their future. i would have my occasional bad days where the movies would start or something would set me off or trigger me, and sometimes i could express those feelings without anger. other times, not so much. sometimes my wife would listen and just be there, other times she would get into the "youre not over it yet?" mentality.
on december 23rd, my father and one of my best (if not THE best) friends of my life will have been gone for 2 years.
this is a very trying time of year for me.
and for the last three weeks, i feel as if i have just hit a brick wall of indifference.
i dont know if it has to do with the anniversary of my dads death, although i am sure it plays a part.
but its like...
my wife is trying really hard. she is a completely different person than she had been for the two years previous (the term of her EA/PA). and i see that, i do. and i appreciate it to a certain degree. sometimes, i appreciate it a great deal. but at times like this, its like...i just dont give a fk. i find myself wondering if i will ever get through this. i wonder if i will ever REALLY love my wife again. i wonder if i will ever REALLY trust my wife again.
i know a part of it is...i can accept the affair. i made PLENTY of mistakes (which she never forgave me for...hence setting the stage for her own infidelity). i can accept the lying. i can accept that i wasnt perfect. can iforgive all that? i dont know. i dont kow that i can forgive that my wife was in love with another man, and actually wanted to REPLACE me with this person. i dont know that i can understand that she placed the health of our unborn child at risk for this...a child that we had wished for and hoped for for YEARS, never thinking she would be able to concieve. (thanks to a fertility study at UT, she did, and i am eternally grateful to those pioneering doctors and researchers. eternally).
but what i really dont know that i can forgive...her affair started (became sexual, anyways) december 1, 2010. they had met each other and gotten that ball rolling around october of 2010.
now, around this time my dad had been sick for awhile and diagnosed with inoperable stage 4 cancer. in his spine. no hope, hes going to die. soon.
so while i am trying to process this, and in utter denial that he will be gone or that there is no hope for him...my wife is setting the stage for a two year affair. 
my pops died on december 23, 2010, at 8:15 in the morning, at my parents house, right next to me.
how do i forgive the fact that the person i trusted most in the world, in my life...how do i come to terms that during the most difficult time of my life...she wasnt there for me? the one time i NEEDED her there...how do i overcome that?
because if i cant, i know in my heart of hearts that this marriage will not be salvaged and recreated into the marriage that i want. that i want for my kids (boy on the way, he'll be here february 19th, turns out that once you overcome problems having a baby, it is exponentially easier to conceive the next. at least in our case). 
i want my children to see their parents marriage as an example of mercy and forgiveness. i dont want them to see their parents marriage as a sham.
thanks for the vent.


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

I can't find any of your other threads sorry if these questions have been asked before.

Did you have to through the whole affair discover/blameshifting/trickle truthing/fog butsing thing?
Or did she develop a conscience and confess to you?

Frankly she doesn't have a right to "get over it already" EVER. She had a two year affair with a man she wanted to replace you with. She should kiss your feet every time she sees you for keeping her.

You are well within your rights to divorce her legally and morally. If you find you want to take her back and forge a new marriage out of the cesspool she's created then I have nothing but admiration for you. This would be taking a very high road indeed. But remember, forgiveness does not mean that a penalty is not paid. Her penalty is no more privacy, forever. Unfortunately you have to pay a penalty too; vigilance, forever.

You have a tough decision to make. Stay married to a liar and promise-breaker for the sake of your children. Or divorce and find a healthy woman and model a healthy marriage to your children. But then if you do that, who knows who your WW will marry?

She has created a terrible situation. You have to live with the hurt every day, is she living with it too? Or is she just happy she's still married?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

What are her mistakes that she never forgave you for ? 

Are you reconciling for the right reasons ?

Edit: Ok, you had several ONS ?


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

naga75 said:


> ok so i ahve posted a little about my situation here, and i can honestly say i have learned A LOT from this forum. it has also helped me vent, and allowed me to help others and warn them of the traps i fell into.
> in any event.
> i have spent the last six months (last d-day june 8th or so) trying to process and get past all of the hurt and betrayal in my marriage. from both sides, as in the things i did, and the things she did. basically being selfish children and having ZERO respect for our marriage or each other.
> for the first five months, i really started to devote myself to being a "better" husband and father. i worked out a lot. am well on the road to being a permanent non-smoker (yay me!)...i got myslef happy about myself. we spent a lot of time together, made family outings, had fun, laughed, loved talked about the future and our children and their future. i would have my occasional bad days where the movies would start or something would set me off or trigger me, and sometimes i could express those feelings without anger. other times, not so much. sometimes my wife would listen and just be there, other times she would get into the "youre not over it yet?" mentality.
> ...


Im sorry for your fathers loss and that the time is nearing for you to relive all that pain and sadness.

I dont know how you forget what your wife was doing at that time. It really is a selfish act on her part.

There were be lots of days that you wonder if you're going to be able to forgive her, move forward, love her the way you did but I dont think we ever really know if we will get to that point until we get there, know what I mean.

I thought I would always adore my husband. The thought of living without him in my life makes me really sad but I look at him at times and feel like I could be with someone that shows me love and doesnt make me wonder. Its a terrible thing having to live through an affair and the aftermath.

I think you need to do something positive this year on your dads day...do something he would do, or something that would make him smile. You know he wouldnt want you hating life!


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

ok, to answer your questions:
i was informed by a close relative of mine, who happened to have a marriage-relation that was a friend of one of OMs friends. they were all together one night, and he overheard the conversation having to do with my wife and OM. so he told my nephew. who was then put in the unfortunate and uncomfortable position of telling one of his best friends (me) that his wife was having an affair, and that she had been for some time.
i didnt know about this place. i have a monster temper that i have had under control for the last 15 years, but i did not know how to process that kind of information, and i confronted her immediately.
she lied, basically tricked me into telling her how much i knew (not much at that point), and really downplayed and minimized the entire thing.
she never confessed ANYTHING of worth or importance. well, maybe one thing about where they would meet, but not until well into our third (yes THIRD...first two were false) R.
i dug and dug and when i would find something new she would kinda fill in the blanks for me and this would set me back to square one. 
yes she blamed me almost exclusively at first. i had been unfatihful, regretfully. i lost my father, so i was not giving her the attention she wanted, dealing with my own unfathomable grief (the selfishness of this in unbeleivable to me i know), i was drinking rather heavily to dull my own pain (excuse). but when my daughter was born, all that changed. she was my light, then.
so i was a bad husband, indeed. but not for the entire period of her affair.
she has trickle truthed me incessantly about the whole thing. it is very frustrating.
i got her out of the fog finally when i confronted OM and he basically threw her under the bus to save his own a$$. and she saw what a POS he really was, and how he had treated his own wife and family...beating his wife, lying to his older kids and everyone else trying to come out as the "good guy" lol.
honestly, sometimes i look at her and i love her more than anything. i would do anything for her at these times. but there are times when i am lying awake next to her in the middle of the night, and i think honestly that if we werent having another child in february...i would simply be done with it all. i wonder why i didnt stick to my guns. i found out first in march. told her that if she omitted anything or i found out she was lying, we were done. then i found out in april she was doing just that, and it was WAAAY more involved than i had thought or that she had told me. and i didnt stick to my guns. thats when she wrote NC and supposedly cut off all ties to OM. then i found out in june or july that they had continued as an EA at least until the end of may. and i didnt stick to my guns. i mean i read an email she had wrote to him in may that ended with "i love you, POSOM". how hard was that? impossible. the day she wrote that email, we had made love and it was great for us both (or so i thought)...thirty minutes after i left my house afterwards she wrote this email to OM telling him how much she missed him and their "loving" and how she wished they had taken the opportunity that day of me being out of town for a bit that morning to "finally" meet up again.
what the ***. that really broke my heart. and it really still does.
it is just a horrible situation, all the way around.
we live in a smallish town, and there is simply no way to avoid running into this guy and his family.
she is completely different. i think she has told me all i really "need to know", for myself. she is transparent. she tells me immediately via text if she happens to see him or his wife/family while she is out.
she is apologetic and remorseful. her selfishness is still present, but to a MUCH MUCH lesser degree...and i thin she is actually trying to eliminate it completely and put our daughter and me first, for once. but i think she wants it to just "go away". and unfortunately for me, its just not that easy.
it really pisses me of that she (and OM, thru email to me) say they "want to move on with our lives". really? well, you wrecked my life, im sorry i am the roadblock to you both "moving on with your life". know what i mean?
yes she is a liar and a promise breaker. unfortunately, so am i. and i wish wish wish that i had treated her better and been a "good" husband. not that it would have been a guarantee against this, but because i would have actually had the moral high ground and not felt, as i do at times, that i stay and give her these chances because she gave ME so many.
the vigilance is slowly ebbing, but sometimes i get so focused on finding something between them, it makes me feel like im crazy.
and i dont really think there is anything going on between them. i blew it up. blew. it. UP.
i think she knows she screwed up, and i think she knows she is lucky i didnt split. but also, like i said, i think she basically wants to say "ok we're even, we both made horrible mistakes...lets move on". and actually, to a certain degree i DO agree with that. but i have to do it on my time frame, otherwise i will build a huge and unmoveable resentment towards my marriage and her. which is what i do not want to happen. and i think that makes her frustrated and impatient. and to be honest, i really dont care that it does.
thanks for your ear (eyes lol). any input is appreciated.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

LetDownNTX said:


> I think you need to do something positive this year on your dads day...do something he would do, or something that would make him smile. You know he wouldnt want you hating life!


haha this actually brought a lttle tear to my eye.
sunday is the second anniversary of his death. and i was just telling myself yesterday...there is a little spot we would go fishing together, sometimes we would skip outta work (family business we worked together for 10 years) and go there and fish and laugh and tell lies. it was our little place on a family friends property, and we were the only ones that were able to fish there. our little hideaway. and i was just thinking...thats what im going to do sunday.
now i have more than a tear. thats a great idea and you hit it right on the head.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

warlock07 said:


> What are her mistakes that she never forgave you for ?
> 
> Are you reconciling for the right reasons ?
> 
> Edit: Ok, you had several ONS ?


yes that is correct. unfortunately. very unfortunately and very regretfully.
as far as reconciling for the right reasons...i dont know. thats subjective i suppose. i would like to think that we are. and i would like to think that she feels the same, she tells me she does.


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

naga75 said:


> haha this actually brought a lttle tear to my eye.
> sunday is the second anniversary of his death. and i was just telling myself yesterday...there is a little spot we would go fishing together, sometimes we would skip outta work (family business we worked together for 10 years) and go there and fish and laugh and tell lies. it was our little place on a family friends property, and we were the only ones that were able to fish there. our little hideaway. and i was just thinking...thats what im going to do sunday.
> now i have more than a tear. thats a great idea and you hit it right on the head.


I think it would be an amazing thing to do. Make sure while you're there you tell him jokes and lies like old times. He will be there, you just wont see him!


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## sandc (Dec 15, 2011)

Did you ever tell these ONS's that you loved them and wanted "move on" with them? Don't get me wrong, I agree, what you did was completely wrong. But two years, I love you, let's run away together... Dunno, the two don't balance out to me.

If she's remorseful and trying hard, well, that's a good thing. But if I was you I'd remind her every time she get's that "just get over it" attitude, that in two years, you'll think about getting over it.

By the way, when he's old enough, be sure and start taking your boy to that fishing hole. That's a great way to honor your dad.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

man o man. i wish he was though. he was the only person i ever looked to to actually TELL me what to do. i dont know how he would have told me to handle this situation. maybe i do. i dunno.


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

sandc said:


> Did you ever tell these ONS's that you loved them and wanted "move on" with them? Don't get me wrong, I agree, what you did was completely wrong. But two years, I love you, let's run away together... Dunno, the two don't balance out to me.
> 
> If she's remorseful and trying hard, well, that's a good thing. But if I was you I'd remind her every time she get's that "just get over it" attitude, that in two years, you'll think about getting over it.
> 
> By the way, when he's old enough, be sure and start taking your boy to that fishing hole. That's a great way to honor your dad.


no i never did. i tried making this distinction to her, but at times i dont want to overdo that because i dont want to make it seem like i am minimizing my own infidelity. and saying, "oh yours was worse". even though, between you and i..absolutely i think that it was wrong on a completely different level, as does every one i have talked with about this (not many). i also never EVER brought up my marital problems or anger with my wife with them. which she did with him on a daily basis.
i like the in two years i will think about getting over it. im going to use that, its excellent.
and yes. i already have my kids first trip there planned. i was actually thinking of taking my daughter sunday. she is only 17 months old, but i thought that might also honor him and make me feel better. she would get a kick out of it. for the 15 seconds she was interested lol kids.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You can do this. I think you should mark this off as codefendants. Its what you do from now on. Since both of you cheated I am not sure what you can be advised to do, but you BOTH need to fix this. One blaming the other is just blameshifting. 

If you break up, someone else is also going to become a father figure to your children, something I could not abide. If you can't figure out what you want, google children of divorce and at least take that into consideration. 

I have heard of one spouse not being there when needed, but in the end, when it comes to greiving, we're all pretty much on our own. A woman I know divorced her husband because he did not show proper support when her mom died. This was several years ago. All she accomplished was losing her and her kids life style and she is stiill single and I seevery little of the dad.

Originally Posted by marduk 
I happened to be thinking today about the past year of my marriage. Everyone on these forums were so instrumental in my being in the great place I am today I thought I would post a note about where I was, where I am, and what I’ve learned.

A year ago my marriage was a mess. After 3 kids my stay at home wife spontaneously decided to start going out with her girlfriends again, including a “girls trip” to Vegas. She started a crazy fitness routine, including marathon running and triathalons. She started leaving me at home with the kids 2-3 evenings a week. A rough summer. I was insecure, controlling, alone, and afraid.

Thanks in part to the folks on this forum, life is much better now. My wife only goes out with her friends maybe once a month, and the last time she did, she came home early, threw her arms around me, and told me she’s so happy she gets to come home to me. She goes to the gym maybe once or twice a week for an hour or so in the early evening. When she does leave on races out of town the whole family will go on a camping trip together so we can be there for her at the finish line. The stress level in the house is much lower, and our happiness and respect for each other is much higher. Are things perfect? No – we still fight, have conflict, and disagree. But they’re shorter-lived, not has hostile, and just plain don’t seem to hurt so much. What’s changed? Me. Here’s what I learned:

1. Let her go. You can fight, hold her back, be controlling… and you’ll just look petty, insecure, and weak. Be cool, act secure, give her a kiss and say “have fun.” If she’s going to cheat or leave, she’s going to cheat or leave. It’s better if it happens sooner rather than later in my book. A marriage is a choice, a decision that’s made one day at a time. You’re in or out. This was really, really hard. But I've learned that nothing lasts forever, life is change. We can grow together or apart. I can't force her to decide to want to be with me.

2. Set boundaries, and then stick to them. I found in my marriage that it wasn’t ok to say “I don’t want you to do that” but it was ok to say “would you be ok with me doing that?” And then hold her to it. 9 times out of 10 the behaviour would go away on its own if I stuck to it. For example: if it was ok for her to be gone 2-3 nights a week so would I. After a couple of weeks she was dying to sit on the couch and watch a movie after we spent the evening with the kids together. Conversely, if it's within your boundaries, be cool with it. I started to let her off the hook for minor annoyances a lot more which cooled the stress levels.

3. Be ok with losing her. Seriously. After one of our last bad fights before things got better, I reconciled myself to thinking this might be it. The end of our marriage and little family. I thought out how things would be living on my own, sharing custody of the kids, etc. And as tough as it would be, made peace with it. It wouldn’t kill me, it wouldn’t kill my kids. Very negative experience and one I’d like to avoid at all costs, but we would survive. This changed my attitude and clinginess significantly… and to be blunt scared the hell out of my wife. Just last month she told me “I think you’d be more ok without me than I’d be without you.” And for our marriage, that balance of neediness works. I think it’s an alpha male thing, not sure but it seems to work.

4. Do my own thing. I’m out at least once or twice a week doing martial arts, yoga, weights, cross-fit, trail running, hanging with buddies… you name it. Gives me perspective and gives my wife time to miss me. And I’m in kick ass shape compared to last year, and now instead of me worrying about my wife getting hit on I’m having to deal with having her be upset because other women check me out when we go out. I’m going on a weekend martial arts training camp… and my wife couldn’t say a word after going to Vegas last year. Another thing: I make sure I either do something fun with the kids when she goes out (she’ll have to decide if it’s more important to miss out on family fun or friend fun) or I have fun while she’s out. Even something stupid like a scotch and cigar in the back yard when the kids go to bed so I can kick back and listen to the complete lack of complaining about the cigar stink. Ahh…

5. Be a father to our children. Not just “quality” time but real time. Conversations, walks in the park, helping with homework, taking them to soccer, etc. all seemed to help big time. Not just with my wife, but with all of us. And I also found my “father voice,” the voice of discipline and reason in the family. My kids listen to me a lot more, not in fear, but they know they have to listen. Now my wife comes to me when the kids don’t listen to her, not the other way around.

6. Get some buddies. Guys need close guy friends to do guy stuff. Complain about their wives. Be stupid and macho. Whatever that means to you, it worked wonders for me.

7. Fight different. Walk away rather than blow up. Mean what you say and stand up to it. For example, if I threaten that if she keeps doing x that means I'll do y, then I bloody well do y if she does x. This had two effects: I thought about what I said more, and so did my wife. I think my wife has a need to be able to hold me at my word, even if that’s a bad thing. Not sure why. Using few words in a fight, slowly and quietly while looking her directly in the eye seems to also work. Once it’s said, don’t repeat it. It is what it is.

8. Act from a place of strength. I don’t think my wife wants a weakling. She may say that she’ll want me to be more intimate, vulnerable, etc… I think that’s actually BS. Or at least that she doesn’t mean weak or actually vulnerable. If you have flaws or weaknesses either accept it and move on or fix it. I don’t let my wife try to fix my flaws any more. If she brings something up and tries to fix it I’ll ask her to mind her own business (gently). Not a behaviour that impacts her, those I’ll always try to listen to her on. But I don't let her judge me or try to live up to her expectations any more. I define myself, I don't let her do that for me.

9. Be decisive. Again I think this is an alpha male thing. Make plans. I planned a few date nights, and didn’t ask what she wanted to do. Instead I planned stuff I thought might be fun for us, and asked if she was having a good time. She was, especially if it was stuff she didn’t normally like to do (one time we went to a tattoo expo – I have one small tattoo and she has none – but got us out of our element and we had a blast!) Now if she asks me “what do you want to do” I answer with what I want. Works in bed too – I just made sure she felt comfortable in saying “no.” Don’t bully, be decisive and adaptable.

10. Know what I want from life. This is hard in today’s world. I had to pull my head out of my ass and figure out that I don’t want to sit on the couch every night and watch TV. So now I don’t. At least not every night.

11. Do more macho stuff. Fix something around the house. Dig a big hole in the back yard and plant a tree. Fixing her car, for example, seemed to turn a light bulb on in my wife’s head that reminded me that I’m a man and not one of her girlfriends.

So that’s my list. Hope it helps some of the guys out there. Your mileage may vary, and my marriage may still fail, but I’m in a much better spot in the past year than I have been in a long, long time.

Thanks for everything!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

naga75 said:


> no i never did. i tried making this distinction to her, but at times i dont want to overdo that because i dont want to make it seem like i am minimizing my own infidelity. and saying, "oh yours was worse". even though, between you and i..absolutely i think that it was wrong on a completely different level, as does every one i have talked with about this (not many). i also never EVER brought up my marital problems or anger with my wife with them. which she did with him on a daily basis.
> i like the in two years i will think about getting over it. im going to use that, its excellent.
> and yes. i already have my kids first trip there planned. i was actually thinking of taking my daughter sunday. she is only 17 months old, but i thought that might also honor him and make me feel better. she would get a kick out of it. for the 15 seconds she was interested lol kids.



Men and women cheat for different reasons. You were running to sex. She was running from an unhappy situation. And odds are he used that to scam her.

Here is the way guys tht bang married women do it. You might print this and let her read it. BTW I am not the guy writing this although I'm sure I'm going to get credit for it.........again.

*Findingmyway was a player, I don't know if he comes on here much now, but he did leave a point of view thread although I can't find it. He posted something similar to me, here it is.:
***********************************************

My perspective- as a serial cheat. Before I start, I'm no GQ model look alike and I'm not wealthy.

For me, it was always about extra sex. The thrill of the chase and ego boost was a plus, but I just wanted more sex than my wife did. I always loved my wife and certainly never ever wanted to leave her or lose her. Especially not over someone else's wayward wife.

I had a simple method. I used it because it worked. I targeted married women. I figured they were safer for several important reasons.
1- Less likely to be sleeping around with random guys (STDs).
2- Less likely to pull the crazy girlfriend BS and call my wife.
3- In case of an unwanted pregnancy, I had a built in schmuck to pay the tab and would have claimed to have had a vasectomy.

The most important part of being a player is to hide it. I started with shy looks making certain I'd get caught and then doing my best to look embarrassed. If she started to come around more or dress sexier then I'd try a safe compliment. If she called me on my BS (yes, it happened) I simply acted highly offended. After all, I'm a married family man. That usually got me an apology. A few really smart ones just avoided me altogether.

If she accepted the compliment, I knew I had a chance. I never ever wasted time with someone that I didn't want to bed. If the compliment was successful, I simply followed with more as time permitted and just let things develop. Who knew where it would go? When she would speak with me about her frustrations with her husband (they always complained about their husband) I used that to my advantage. If they complained that he didn't do enough with the kids, I was dad of the year. If he didn't help out around the house, I did everything at home so my wife didn't have to. Yes, it was complete BS, but so what. My job was to make them feel special, pretty and needed and to paint the fantasy. After all, my goal was not conversation or friendship. I wanted to score.

Once things progressed and I had to keep it intense unless it was simply a once and done kind of thing. I would do that by pushing her boundaries for sex. Anal, public hook-up whatever. Keep in mind, I'm in it for the sex so I tried for everything I liked and heard more than once statements like... I never even let my husband do that. That was usually with anal, but sometimes public hook-ups also.

I certainly didn't want to be paying for hotel rooms out my pocket. If she wanted to pay, that was fine. Otherwise, we could hook-up anywhere, it didn't matter to me.

I always advised them to keep the secret between us, because it was so special. Actually, I didn't want to get busted. If they got busted, and some did. That was their tough crap to deal with. I certainly never vowed to love/honor/cherish them.

As I look back, I'm stunned at how easy it was and how many fell for my crap. I had some that would try to pull away and I'd feed them the star crossed lovers BS, you know... kept apart by the cruel hand of fate. That worked like magic to seal the deal. I also used things like I think my wife may have cheated on me. Then I'd work in how I got tested for STDs and it was clear and somehow manage to mention my vasectomy (never had one). Understand? I'm safe, you won't catch anything if you sleep with me and I won't get you pregnant. That was the message.

The one thing that sent me running was the fear of getting caught and sometimes I just wanted a quick bang and wasn't in it for a couple of months of an affair. I'm still also amazed by how many didn't see through my crap either. They didn't have to deal with the day to day stresses that adults face with me (finances, mortgages, car payments, child care, time commitments, etc.). With me, it was just fun and sex. The poor bastard at home didn't have a chance once the play was in motion. It also helped me to see him as a douche-bag when his wife whined about him for whatever reason.

I work with a woman that has lost everything over an affair with me. The house, husband, family, etc. It's difficult to see. She hates me now, but I never vowed anything to her or forced her to do anything. That's her tough crap. Her kids are in therapy, their grades tanked and she's struggling financially and the kids blame her, etc. Honestly, I wish she'd quit so I didn't have to see her every freaking day.


I do know a few like me that I consider even worse. They brag and laugh about getting wayward wives to do things and try to get email or text proof to show off. It's pretty easy, just tell her how much he liked doing X with her last night and let her respond. Then they had proof to brag about and trade notes. I didn't do that. I just wanted the sex and avoided the women they talked about. I liked to find the ones who would seem to be the last to ever do anything like this. Goes back to my 3 reasons.

I never flirted with a married woman unless I wanted in her pants. Plain and simple, you do have to hide it so they don't see it coming, but it's really that basic. Other players use different methods, but we all use what works and modify sometimes if we're not progressing to try a different angle. Not all women are the same, and sometimes deviations are required if she'll let you in her pants.

It was never about love, just sex. I sold the fantasy, yes. But that is all it ever was. A fair trade. They were adults and quite frankly should have known better. Am I a predator, I certainly never thought so and I certainly never thought about what would happen to them when we were done. Yes, all my affairs ended. Most stayed married to their H they *****ed about and screwed around on. Therefore, he must not have been that bad. People just get caught up with unrealistic expectations on life I think. For goodness sake, Prince charming is only charming because he wants a blow job.

Before I close, I'll say this as well. An engaged woman would have worked for me also, but I never found one that would go for me. Also, newly married women are much harder to get. I had the best luck with women who had been married for at least several years, throw a kid or two in the mix and they were usually more susceptible to being chased.

It was a fair trade. Attention and compliments for sex. *


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## naga75 (Jul 5, 2012)

thanks chapparal.
i have that post by marduk saved in print and on my phone.
i read it often.
the post above...yes, i could see the POS my wife got all hung up on actually being THIS guy dang. from what i know this is pretty much exactly the way it was.
i am most definitely going to print that for her to read.


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