# Reflections on why my R failed



## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

As I move into my new home, I find myself reflecting on what are the main themes as to why my R failed.

Not that I am unhappy with my current position or situation but I realize that some things in my state of mind for me made R impossible.

I think I made several mistakes.

One main one was didn't listen to any advice here. For me many people came forward with what you might call tough love. The advice might have been good but when you are just devastated and feel low, people calling you sucker and soft, and putting images of your spouse getting banged don't lead you to want to listen...

I think the intent is to be like a slap in the face or a douse of a cold water but for me this approach doesn't help.

I would ask the veterans to consider if they really want to help, to modify their delivery and perhaps more would listen (just my humble opinion)

I possessed several characteristics that made me vulnerable and I can see it in many other posters and you just know reading their posts where their stories will end up.

I believed the affair was my fault. I heard people say marriages issues are 50/50 and affairs are 100 % DS fault. Sounded good but in my gut, I believed it was my fault. You can tell other posters who suffer the same in the way they describe their shortcomings give the DS benefit of doubt etc.

If this is you, you are at high risk for blameshifting, DS not owning affair etc.

You must find a way to really believe in your heart and soul that it wasn't your fault, and you deserve better. I just couldn't get there in my mind.

I had a lot of difficulty with the dynamics of how to regain trust and ther concern of violating privacy etc.

Intellectually these things seemed to make sense but I now know that for my DS very little time was contact ceased.

I was also on the other side of an EA (didn't post about it) with a married woman who couldn't stop. For a while, I couldn't either...

The behaviours and stories coming from here are remarkably similar. I doubt there is another example of human behaviour where things are more predictable.

My opinion now is it is almost certain your DS will maintain contain. Unless you are extreme. If you err to be a proponent of civil liberties and privacy, odds are very high contact will continue.

You want to say your situation is different people are different and yes everyone is different but the behaviours and patterns here are very very consistent and predictable.

You must find a way to talk a harder stand here, put away your intellectual objection to privacy issues or you will not stop anything and your R most likely will fail...

There is also the issue of exposure which I want to comment on in a separate post and update you on my particular circumstances. I still struggle with this.

If you are looking through various posts, look for common elements of stories from people where R fails or there is D Day #2, 3 etc.

Life is changing for me. I am looking forward to that, I am not unhappy where I am.

I realize now my R never had a chance.

If you really want R, I hope you will be honest with yourself, strong and listen to people when they offer you advice.

I know it is hard.

Thanks for listening.

Thanks for trying to help.


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## OldWolf57 (Mar 20, 2012)

Sorry it didn't work out. yes, we do come on too strong sometime. but like you said, its meant as a slap in the face. a Vet pointed this out in a thread he started, and since, some of us have mod'ed our approach.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> One main one was didn't listen to any advice here. For me many people came forward with what you might call tough love. The advice might have been good but when you are just devastated and feel low, people calling you sucker and soft, and putting images of your spouse getting banged don't lead you to want to listen...
> 
> I think the intent is to be like a slap in the face or a douse of a cold water but for me this approach doesn't help.
> 
> I would ask the veterans to consider if they really want to help, to modify their delivery and perhaps more would listen (just my humble opinion)


Going through your past threads, you insisted on doing it your way in spite of what people here were telling you. I warned you that you were in False R. I deal with the facts, whether they be good or bad. That's the way I roll, and that's how I do my job in the real world. 

And now you're saying that it was because of the approach of people like me? I don't think so, and I'm not taking the blame for your False R. You were told repeatedly that your approach was going to lead to False R. Remember your post from 06-28-2011, 03:09 PM?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/27685-another-perspective.html



Looking to heal said:


> *A lot of the advice didn't feel natural for me *(I am definitely a nice guy).
> 
> Many people might blast my approach,call me stupid,naive, *I don't really care.*
> 
> ...


You were proudly proclaiming your way was successful and you were in R. Own up to your mistakes fully and stop trying to blame others. You just didn't like what you were being told, plain and simple. *I remember your story* and you were adamant about your nice guy approach. 

And now you're back. I hate to say I told you so, so I won't. All I got out of it was a warning from a moderator. 

But good can come out of this. Let this be a lesson for all those lurking, that if you disregard the advice given on this site, you're at much greater risk of going in to False R. BTW, in your other thread you fell into an EA and was heading toward a PA. You aren't in an affair now are you?


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Looking to heal, congrats with moving on with your life.

As to us being harsh sometimes, well there's no one size fits all approach. And I seriously doubt that if we were nice about it, your course of actions would have changed.

Sometimes a story has to run its course.


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## Beowulf (Dec 7, 2011)

LTH,

I tend to try to be more diplomatic when it comes to talking to a BS. I try to remember that the pain and confusion they are no doubt experiencing clouds their judgement. But others have a different approach and we each give advice according to out respective personalities and experiences. I think as a whole it is a good balance and can help most posters when they come to TAM. It sounds like your problem was that you did not heed the advice you were given. The problem is that for as varied as the stories may be and as unique as each situation is, there are common approaches that all R demand or they will not succeed. Were you responsible for her affair? Absolutely not. Did your behavior set the stage for the affair to occur? Possibly. But your approach was all wrong. You were faced with a traumatic but rather than change your approach you chose to do more of the wrong thing. Unfortunately that is an all too common response and one of the reasons some posters are harsh with their comments. They are trying to break the BS out of their own fog. Sadly it didn't work for you. And for that I am truly sorry.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Looking to heal said:


> One main one was didn't listen to any advice here. For me many people came forward with what you might call tough love. The advice might have been good but when you are just devastated and feel low, people calling you sucker and soft, and putting images of your spouse getting banged don't lead you to want to listen...
> 
> I think the intent is to be like a slap in the face or a douse of a cold water but for me this approach doesn't help.
> 
> I would ask the veterans to consider if they really want to help, to modify their delivery and perhaps more would listen (just my humble opinion)


LTH, I am so sorry your attempt at R was not successful. Any time a marriage gets to an affair stage righting the ship is an immense challenge.

As a mod I would like to comment on these particular issues. We as a group have seen a trend of an over zealous approach to new members here looking for advice. In particular betrayed husbands. I am not here to debate the pros and cons of techniques such as the 180, exposure, snooping or the like. All have their place in specific situations. Nor am I here to call anyone out by name. My concerns are the approach and the level of understanding posters have in making their responses.

I and the other mods have seen all too often a BH coming here, getting brow beaten by a group then delete their posts and leave, not gaining any insight as to what might work in their marriage. While the advice may be sound and logical, it's offered in a confrontational way to someone that is already damaged from the discovery that their wife is probably banging some one else. Techniques like the 180 are completely foreign to the normal reaction of the betrayed and without a good understanding of it, it appears to be a sure way of scuttling the marriage. Some members do an excellent job of explaining these tools and showing why they can work. Others simply state to go alpha on her ass with out explaining the dynamics of it. Tough love by the group can help a new member see a new way to R but attacking them will only drive them away.




snap said:


> As to us being harsh sometimes, well there's no one size fits all approach.


Snap, thanks this leads me to my second area of concern. This is spot on, the techniques here are not a one size fits all and the BS needs a clear understanding of his own situation and what the options are. I recently called out a member in a thread for making an armchair diagnosis without reading the situation. It was obvious that he had not read much more than the title of the thread and told the OP to file and do the 180. I would equate this to explaining a mechanical issue with my auto mechanic, have him recognize that there was a fuel pump issue then hammering a Nissan full pump in to my Honda and ****ing up the whole works. The techniques we discuss on a daily basis here can be powerful tools in recovery but can be devastating if the situation is not right for them.

Thanks.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

Lord Mayhem,

I don't think you can read.

I said I wished I had listened to people like you and recognized that I didn't.

It might have helped me during R.

I am hoping that others are better at listening than I was.

If you want to quote me on earlier posts go ahead. I was very hurt and confused and not everything I wrote made sense.

What I am saying is I think you would get more people to listen to you if you softened your approach recognizing their vulnerable state.

I get that you are a no nonsense decision making alpha male but not all of us can be as accomplished as you.

The rest of my post was what I hoped people would focus more on, understanding our own vulnerabilities during the R process.


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

Looking to heal said:


> What I am saying is I think you would get more people to listen to you if you softened your approach recognizing their vulnerable state.
> 
> I get that you are a no nonsense decision making alpha male but not all of us can be as accomplished as you.


LM's frustration is coming from experience, both being a BS and seeing other BS's here repeat his own mistakes over and over and over again. Something I can really relate to.

Yes people here can be blunt, but it's not like anyone here knows you in person. Don't take straight talk as an assault on your very character.

From what I observed, if a person comes here determined to shoot themselves in the foot, they are going to do that anyway, harsh talk or sweet talk.


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## anonymouskitty (Jun 5, 2012)

People listen to what they want to hear.

Most BSs and WSs alike would much prefer to be coddled than confronted with the truth


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## snap (Oct 3, 2011)

You know, I found TAM CWI last August, when I got the whiff that something is off with my wife. Lurked here a lot, read the common advice, took *some* part of it, which led me to DD 1.

I was still convinced that my situation is kinda special, my wife isn't the cookie cutter cheater. I'm smart, I handled bad situations myself before. I would take the high road, skip the embarrassment of exposure, and my wife will appreciate that. You can now guess where it got me.. yes, into a false R just like you.

It was not until I started posting and *listening* to advice here I was able to take control of this nosedive. Yes, people called me a few things along the way but truth is, if everyone calls you a fool it can be really because you are one.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

One of my biggest regrets was NOT looking for sites like this before and after DDay. I wish I had a site like this as a resource, so that people could give me the verbal 2x4s I so badly needed. Instead, I listed to a buddy who had not gone through infidelity before and ended up confronting my WW way too soon, with no evidence. So I got the denials, gaslighted, the "He's just a friend" speech, everything by the cheaters playbook. And I made ALL the classic BS blunders. It wasn't until my brother chewed me out, that helped shake me out of the BS fog of denial.

I need to change my name to Ex-Doormat.


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

lordmayhem said:


> One of my biggest regrets was NOT looking for sites like this before and after DDay. I wish I had a site like this as a resource, so that people could give me the verbal 2x4s I so badly needed. Instead, I listed to a buddy who had not gone through infidelity before and ended up confronting my WW way too soon, with no evidence. So I got the denials, gaslighted, the "He's just a friend" speech, everything by the cheaters playbook. And I made ALL the classic BS blunders. It wasn't until my brother chewed me out, that helped shake me out of the BS fog of denial.
> 
> I need to change my name to Ex-Doormat.


You and me both. My username should have been 'blind trust.'
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Looking to heal said:


> What I am saying is I think you would get more people to listen to you if you softened your approach recognizing their vulnerable state.


May I very gently and with as much respect as possible say... 

I'm afraid that comment above is Bullshi* (aka: poopie).

Didn't matter if was gift wrapped, or given on egg shells with butterflys kisses... You were scared and mired in denial... you wouldn't have listened, you would have done exactly what you did... only you would be back here saying that if only we would have been tougher on you then... then... maybe things would have been different. No, they wouldn't. 

Your failure to use the information and advice given to you freely was not a fault of the people sharing thier wisdom or thier delivery style.... 

It was you (and me, and hundreds of other hurt betrayed spouses that go through this) you were scared and in terrible pain. No one faults you for that and everyone understands. We've all been there. But, this backhanded 'reflection'... 'you guys were right' but 'you were mean to me and insensitive so its YOUR FAULT I didn't listen'.... is an insult to the people who tried desprately to help you. 

I'm not attacking you buddy, I just want you to look back and reflect on what your saying a little. 

Something to think about brother... you could have listened to the letter of the instruction and followed all the advice verbatum and there's a really good chance you could still be right here, right now... Worse yet, you could be right here.. a longtime from now. 

Betrayal and infidelity are a wicked, horrible thing no one should be expected to know how to deal with. It's unnatural. You did the best you could do given the circumstances... 

All is good, welcome to the next page...


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

iheartlife said:


> You and me both. My username should have been 'blind trust.'
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


er.... excuse me, you can't steal my real name


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Did I say blind trust? I meant blind_trust2!  

I think the standard forum advice is some of the most counter-intuitive stuff there is. It is not surprising that most people are sure they know the love of their life better than a bunch of strangers. It is more painful than anything to believe someone would lie unflinchingly to your face. 

It is also very human to have to learn things the hard way. Sometimes I wonder how things would have played out if I'd had this advice 3 years ago. Would I have taken it? I will never know.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Sure affair are scripted, but everyone is different and sometimes folks don't want to listen...period.

So even in real life you have the poeple that use the 2x4 and you have the poeple that are alot more suddle. Its hard to tell what poeple will listen to when they come here for help.

I personaly feel there alot more folks walking around with the 2x4 these days as compared to ...say last year this time. But as this site grows I hope so does the points of views and the *approach* in giving advice.

Some times you can see the same folks post the same thing over and over again and they just don't get it ......then its time to get the 2x4 out. But being the 1st few replies we need to be more careful. Then as the new person settles in to this community we can start to slap them around for there own good.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

snap said:


> LM's frustration is coming from experience, both being a BS and seeing other BS's here repeat his own mistakes over and over and over again. Something I can really relate to.
> 
> Yes people here can be blunt, but it's not like anyone here knows you in person. Don't take straight talk as an assault on your very character.
> 
> From what I observed, if a person comes here determined to shoot themselves in the foot, they are going to do that anyway, harsh talk or sweet talk.


The point many here are trying to make is a lot of posts here are way beyond blunt. Vicious is a word that comes to mind. A BS does not need to be told his wife is a wh*re for example. People do not need to go into detail about various sex acts that trigger, unmercifully, the OP.

I've seen posts to OPs made here, that had they been said to me in person, would have resulted in an immediate fist fight if not worse. 

I would like to say cruelty has always been accidental but I really do not believe that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You have to sell/argue your position/advice. If you run the OP off you've lost the sale/battle. You also have to hold your own emotions in check and they can be brutal here.

I had a sales manager p!ssed because after a test drive my wife and I waffled because we thought we need to go up in size over the car we test drove. After I got the " You don't want to buy a car", you wasted my salesman's time speech, his reward was a loud, cussing exit all the way across the sales floor in front of at least 20 or more customers explaining what I was doing in his dealership. Bought another car that day at another dealer.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

There's a difference between "tough love" and being intentionally vindictive. I once heard a phrase, those who constantly use brutal honesty tend to enjoy the brutality more than the honesty.

I think part of the problem is that you have a lot of BSes projecting their own anger into their replies. Obviously each of our posts is colored by our own experiences. I'm a BS myself, and I completely understand their POV, but honestly, if you can't keep your emotions in check while posting, just wait until you've cooled off later. Unfortunately, it only takes one to start the cascade of vindictive posts, and within a few hours you'll have several pages of it. Sometimes the OP stops responding altogether, and some of the posters congratulate themselves on how the OP couldn't handle the "tough love".

And if you're a WS trying to figure out how to save your marriage, don't bother coming to this forum. You'll get flamed for being a self-serving wh0re who doesn't deserve the spouse you have and you might as well do the right thing and divorce.

It also seems much of the advice given on this site has slowly shifted from saving the marriage to "just D and move on." And not just in CWI, but in some of the other subforums as well. Sometimes I think this forum needs to change its name from "Talk About Marriage" to "Talk About Divorce".


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Davelli0331 said:


> There's a difference between "tough love" and being intentionally vindictive. I once heard a phrase, those who constantly use brutal honesty tend to enjoy the brutality more than the honesty.
> 
> I think part of the problem is that you have a lot of BSes projecting their own anger into their replies. Obviously each of our posts is colored by our own experiences. I'm a BS myself, and I completely understand their POV, but honestly, if you can't keep your emotions in check while posting, just wait until you've cooled off later. Unfortunately, it only takes one to start the cascade of vindictive posts, and within a few hours you'll have several pages of it. Sometimes the OP stops responding altogether, and some of the posters congratulate themselves on how the OP couldn't handle the "tough love".
> 
> ...


Interesting points there davelli. I agree with quite a bit of that. 

In the short time I've been on here I've noticed an increase in the vehemence of the 'advice given out. I also came on here many many years ago for a short time and it does seem a little more 'in yer face' now.

I think the sentiment of the individual 'advisee' is generally honest trying to be helpful but maybe they could have a look at the _way_ in which things are said to an obviously deeply hurting BS 

'There's more than one way to skin a cat' is the saying and that's pretty evident on here.

"Burn the witch" / "Chop his balls off" although in some ways making a valid point is maybe not the best approach.

Lets face it we surely really deep down would love every scenario to end with a joyful R but one does get the feeling that some on here would not be happy with that 

I know that many experienced posters BSes are only offering their experience to 'short cut ' through the mistakes that 'newly' BS are making now today in the shock and aftermath of the revelations just happening, but in a sense as you point out some of these 'early days' misguided mistakes/decisions do need to be self made in order to make them really see what is has been going on.

I hope nobody stops offering genuine advice on these matters but just maybe engages a little patience and forethought before they do

In terms of the WS spouses getting flamed maybe there could be a WS forum sub forum that is entered knowing emotionally things there will be a little closer to the knuckle than the infidelity one. I don't know. Just a thought as I feel it is a good thing when they come on here and we all try to understand a little more about what makes these things happen.


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## Looking to heal (Jun 15, 2011)

I never expected other posters to be responsible for saving my marriage or not.

That was up to me.

I think originally I just wanted to vent or get things off my chest.

I don't respond well to sales approaches that are in your face. Others might.

I was doomed from the beginning but for other reasons that I tried to describe in my original post.

What I see now better than before is the advice was generally good and I hope others will listen to it for their sakes better than I did.

It's a process and advice given to a person one week in vs six months in short be different in my opinion.

I will try to remake my original other point.

Now, when I read some newer posts, I can tell who I think will fail.

I think the characteristics of these people are: you believe the affair was your fault then they tend to write about what they weren't doing in the marriage etc.

You have blind faith and trust in what your WS tells you. Seems irrational considering they just lied to you the biggest lie of your life.

You have problems with matters of privacy and information gathering not recognizing the different nature of the situation you are in.

I would call these the 3 characteristics of people who will fail at R

That is more the point I was trying to make.


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