# We Might Be Done......



## Fordsvt

I think we may be done here. Married for 17 years / 2 kids / together for 21 years. We both have good jobs. Only have the mortgage and taxes to pay really. We get along well and rarely fight. Here is the story.

On Sept 9th she told me she still loves me but has lost the connection. Our sex life was at 1-2 times a month. I could feel it in the last few months we weren't into it. She claims to have been feeling this way for about 2 years or so. I found this odd. Also feels I've become cynical and negative over the years too. Perhaps I am a bit but not that bad!! Wow. I noticed changes in her too over the last few years. She is 41 I'm 42. Last xmas she started getting mad at the smallest things and really lashing out at times. Then would cry after and say "I don't know why I get so mad at times" This went on until March 2012. Then we decided to buy a new house. I asked her if everything was ok and good. She seemed a little off at times. She claimed all was fine.

Timeline:
-Moved into new house July10th. She was happy
-Noticed her mood/happy gong down in 2nd week of Aug
-She went to NYC with the girls Aug26-Sept1
-Sex life still slow. 
-She came back and something was way off
-I asked her numerous times-no answers
-caught a guy texting/sexting her Oct 4th
-Met in NYC and he made her feel good about herself. She spilled it all. She lost the feeling with me. But another man made her feel important/beautiful. I was crushed.....
-She did not sleep with him or anything. I confirmed with her GF's. They were never alone. Met on the last night. I believe her / them.

We are in marriage counseling now since mid Sept. Then I caught the texting BS. He's was on her Facebook too. So I copy down his and his wife's particulars. I text him saying she's busted. He texts once more and I call his wife(what a worm this guy is). Nothing since. So it's an emotional affair. He deleted her on FB right away too.

Can we come back from this? 
She says she needs time and space to figure out her life. So do I. I deserve better I know this.
We are still in the same house. Not much arguing going on. It's a somber mood. I'm not sure I want this either. 50/50 on the fence. We still love each other but lots to sort through. 
Any suggestions?


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## Keepin-my-head-up

17 years.
I suggest you take a break from each other.
Clear your head and see if you want to put up with what she did to you.

You probably already know that you haven't heard the half of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Idyit

Really sorry to hear this. Your wife got caught in this recent EA and may have gotten others past you. Her previous behavior doesn't look good for innocence. 

I would suggest that you ask a moderator to move your thread over to "Coping With Infidelity". There are a lot of folks there that can help you to see if the fat lady is just warming up or singing.

I wish you the best.

~Passio


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## Idyit

Really sorry to hear this. Your wife got caught in this recent EA and may have gotten others past you. Her previous behavior doesn't look good for innocence. 

I would suggest that you ask a moderator to move your thread over to "Coping With Infidelity". There are a lot of folks there that can help you to see if the fat lady is just warming up or singing.

I wish you the best.

~Passio


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## Fordsvt

I'm really sure this is the first time. Before this her time away from the house was the same always. No change in routine at all. This all came up in Sept. I can read her like a book. I knew something was up. She is quite mixed up and confused right now. I actually think she may be suffering from a mid-life or depression really. So does our doctor. I told him everything and he wants us to both come in. She wont, she's in denial right now.


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## nogutsnoglory

Your wife did not risk this for a guy she just chatted with at a club. She at minimum had her tongue down his throat. Think about it like this. If you were him and got nothing but a conversation, would you all of a sudden be texting her, facebook, etc... No, it is because he got a taste and wants to finish her off.

Good luck man, i would recommend MC if you are even interested. If she wants to separate then she leaves the marital home. 
Sounds like you need to implement the 180 process immediately,
look it up.
Do not beg her to stay, that never works. You and she needs to change, you both have to want to give it a try, and you both need to commit to it. If she seems to still be in an affair fog, it is because she is, and she is still talking to him, or someone else. Further exposure with proof would be required and the people here can help you obtain the evidence. I would get a keylogger on the computer immediately as well as her phone. You need to know what is going on.

Do not trust the girlfriends either. She I am sure has told them how lame you are, how much she wishes for good sex, all the usual girl stuff. They will feel she is entitled to whatever she wants, defend her, and deceive you.

Good luck


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## nogutsnoglory

Fordsvt said:


> I'm really sure this is the first time. Before this her time away from the house was the same always. No change in routine at all. This all came up in Sept. I can read her like a book. I knew something was up. She is quite mixed up and confused right now. I actually think she may be suffering from a mid-life or depression really. So does our doctor. I told him everything and he wants us to both come in. She wont, she's in denial right now.


that is because she knows this is not medical. She wants to finish what she started that night in the city.


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## Fordsvt

You may be right not sure. He may have gotten more. I have a key logger on the laptop. Nothing so far at all. Waiting for more info to show up. We are in marriage counselling now. She has really screwed things up here. Just biding time here. Going to be smart and wait. It will come out
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sanity

OP,

Number one please don't for a moment think somehow you caused this. Cheaters like to blameshift and make this somehow your fault. 

Number 2. Man up and seek legal counsel and get your ducks in a row. Pour over any and every single peace of financial documents that is in both your names. Check her spending. Stop any direct deposits where she can withdrawn from and freeze any credit lines for at least until you figure things out. 

Number 3. You really need to get some IC and figure if you can live with this. Very few people can honestly forget infidelity and IT WILL surface everytime she is late, she give you a white lie, EVERY single time there something "off" you will be thinking that another man's penis is inside your wife. This is why trust is so important and yet so fragile.


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## cdbaker

Yeah don't trust the GF's. A married woman who is looking to sample another man is smart when it comes to prepping those around them for what they want. That means she's likely spoken to them at length about how poor of a husband you are, how you never help out, bad in bed, never do anything for her, while she is a perfect wife who does everything for you and the home, desires sex 24/7, etc. They might not think you are a bad guy, but they probably have been convinced that covering up for her activities isn't wrong in the slightest.

It sounds like you did the right thing in revealing the OM's activities to his wife. That is generally the right course of action. The risk is that if his marriage ends, he might pursue your wife full time, but I don't think this was a love affair, I think it was him taking advantage of what he thought was an easy opportunity. Meaning (no offense to your wife!) that your wife is probably not the woman he knows he would want most in this world, her coming along was just an easy opportunity for fun on the side without his wife knowing about it. If his wife weren't in the picture anymore and he could pursue anyone he wants, he'd probably go for local women with way fewer strings attached.

In the meantime, she'll be bummed. What she was doing was exciting, youthful, she felt desirable, beautiful, and along with some self-deception, felt like she deserved it. (Meaning most people have to convince themselves and others that cheating on their spouse, in "this particular instance" isn't so bad because he/she is an *******/*****, doesn't treat them well, that the marriage is dead anyway, etc.) So she was experiencing these enormous emotional and romantic high's. Serotonin, Dopamine, and endorphins were in ample supply. Then it all crashes down when she's discovered, the guilt hits her, and then the OM disappears when he too is busted. It's an enormously depressing fall from such a wonderfully feeling moment.

Also remember that she probably spent a LOT of time thinking about him, texting or e-mailing him, planning things around seeing or talking to him, etc. All of that time is now empty. When my wife's affair ended, she was seeing him nearly five days a week when I was at work and the kids were at school. It was incredibly hard for her because not only did she experience the pain of everything mentioned above, but she also had the deeply ingrained habits of being used to getting in her car to go see him or having him over every day, texting him day and night, calling him whenever they could, etc. She literally had a friend come pick up her car every morning and return it in the evening, just to keep her from being tempted to drive off to see him. Worse, she initially despised me even more because she saw me as being responsible for ending her happiness by busting her and the OM in the affair. So she was already unhappy with to begin with, but for a while after this, she really hated me.

So I'll say that you shouldn't assume that this "somber mood" or her depression-like symptoms are in fact symptoms of depression or a mid-life crisis or anything like that. She is very likely grieving, as though someone close to her has died, but it's worse, because you are the one who killed him in this instance. She was enjoying herself immensely, and then you found out about it and destroyed everything. Logically, it makes completely sense why you did it and you had every right to do so. Emotionally however, it's very hard to get past, so she'll need time to recover, and it might make things worse if you are approaching her by trying to say that something is wrong with her for feeling/acting the way she is now. (By questioning depression/mid-life crisis right now) So just tread carefully.


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## Fordsvt

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Well we live in Canada. He's in Nebraska. The odds of seeing him again are nill. She is very mixed up. Totally. I have a key logger on the computer. How can you log an iPhone? I do believe it's the first time this has happened. I need to figure out how far it went. Then I can make a decision. I have to wait for info to come in. Waiting for her cell bill next week. That will tell much. I may kick her out anyways. Not sure. I'm really upset right now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter

Define sexting.

Dirty talk or pics?
Please elaborate on when meet how meet etc. When did she friend him etc. Somethin smells fishy in the story.

PM a mod have this thread moved to CWI immediately.

Consider a poly if you are even thinking of R. Look up what a parking lot confession is.


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## LongWalk

Play it cool and confident. Watch her but don't ask lots if questions. Gradually she should realize that you can go on with your life minus one cheating wife.

You almost have laugh and be philosophically
detached that evolution set up the selfish gene to test you. You also have a selfish gene, but you've got it under control. Maybe in 6 months time your wife will appreciate you for having perspective.

Are you in good shape? Smoke?

Nows the time to turn yourself into the guy who may have to date again. Your wife can have the first shot.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Fordsvt

Yes I'm in good shape. No smoking or drugs. She had an EA. So what. I can handle it. But I have starting doing the 180. It working slowly. She needs to realize that life can go on without her. Funny you said six months. That is the window we gave. She said the EA is over. I've seen no sign of it again. Will watch and play it by ear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Long walk I think you have the right idea. I'm doing the 180for the last weeks. I want to salvage this. Not drive her away. Spying and doing the FBI thing is too over the top. If she wants to go. Let her. She will find out fast life is tough. We are in counselling now. So I want to progress with that see where it goes. As far as the GFs on the trip. Two won't talk to her now. They are upset with her actions. So I've been talking with two of them. They also say nothing happened. But still not impressed at all. Mods please move this thread to Coping with infidelity
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

If you spend time reading about WAW/WW, you will realize this in our biology. You are the old mate. She wants new DNA in an attempt at a child. In her conscious mind she may not want a baby, she wants a strange male to pair with her. 

If you had known, you could have changed yourself and attempted to be the fresh alpha male. But you are short of time. Still you can improvise. Take away the the security of your love while demonstrating that you will go on confidently. 

Confidence and humor will have more impact on her emotionally than pleading, argument or analysis. You need to figuratively walk away from her before she walks away from you.

MC, if you go, will be a good place to be confident. Go in with your positions clear. No EA or PA. No dating site memberships. No secret telephones.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Fordsvt

Confidence and humor will have more impact on her emotionally than pleading, argument or analysis. You need to figuratively walk away from her before she walks away from you.

MC, if you go, will be a good place to be confident. Go in with your positions clear. No EA or PA. No dating site memberships. No secret telephones.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_[/QUOTE]

I can tell you she doesn't want kids! We have 2 and she's 41. She also said if we don't make it, she'd likely not share her closet again! From what I see there is no EA - it seems done. It last 30 days for a total of 33 texts. There never was a PA. I can see her phone when I want. She doesn't do the dating sites. I think it's a mid- life really. She is confused big time. She agreed gladly to MC. We've been about 3 times together and 2 alone each. It seems to be helping. Just working on the 180 / giving space / going out with my buddies!!!!
She was already worried tonight how late I'm going to be and who's driving home. LOL:smthumbup:


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## LongWalk

Sounds like you're doing better.

re: having children
I don't mean sexual desire and the desire to have children consciously linked most of the time. Desire is the drive force for procreation. The stronger the drive the more selfish DNA goes forward. A male lion in wild would live a lot longer if it did not challenge dominant males for a pride, but the purpose of a male lion is not simply to exist.

I don't think human desire is any different. A woman can consciously go into a hyper phase as her reproductive life comes to an end. She may not want more children. Her perception is that she is horny and not for her old mate. This one reason that marriage was invented, to moderate sexual instincts power to disturb long term relationships.

If you appear more masculine in resisting her current agitation, she may interpret that positively. The impulse to wander may be re-channeled back to you. But it depends. 

I think if you see it as a psychological process, then it is less threatening.


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## Fordsvt

I do believe its a physic process for her. It's in her head. I know it is. All the irrational thinking. It all. Makes sense. But will she come out of it in time. Before she makes a mistake she will regret. Time patience is key. Also not playing into her game
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3

I've learn thur all of this, its not so much the " affair," yes, that's like the cheery on top if you will, but what really needs to be looked into more deeply is really what got us there. 

The first part of your post tells your story, the second part, the reaction of your story. And now, its up to both of you to really look at the whole picture... 

She got from this man, what she isn't getting from you. She found what she is missing. There was an emotional intimacy she found from him that isn't there w you, she been telling you now for how long???
((correct me if I am wrong, but didnt you say you've both have thought about going your separate ways before)) 

"Misery loves company," I'm not saying you are miserable,but it sounds like you two have been keeping each other quite comfortable.


~sammy


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## Fordsvt

sammy3 said:


> I've learn thur all of this, its not so much the " affair," yes, that's like the cheery on top if you will, but what really needs to be looked into more deeply is really what got us there.
> 
> The first part of your post tells your story, the second part, the reaction of your story. And now, its up to both of you to really look at the whole picture...
> 
> She got from this man, what she isn't getting from you. She found what she is missing. There was an emotional intimacy she found from him that isn't there w you, she been telling you now for how long???
> ((correct me if I am wrong, but didnt you say you've both have thought about going your separate ways before))
> 
> "Misery loves company," I'm not saying you are miserable,but it sounds like you two have been keeping each other quite comfortable.
> 
> 
> ~sammy[/QUOT
> I think all relationships have a lull. But can you get through it. Yes some guy have her attention. It's the thrill I guess. Who doesn't like attention. We have items to work on for sure. So do I. Time will tell if it is repaired. We are in MC. It's a big start.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Update. I came home from a night shift two days ago. She meets me at the door with tears in her eyes. Then says she's PMSing and wants a hug. So we embrace. Then have a nice talk. Last night she stops me in the kitchen and hip checks me. Leans into me so we talk. I say what's up with you? We talk a it and I massage her shoulders. Then she asks me to go upstairs so we have sex. It was good. Not long enough but good. Perhaps she's coming around. A work in progress for sure. I'm still kind of in shock.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nogutsnoglory

Fordsvt said:


> Update. I came home from a night shift two days ago. She meets me at the door with tears in her eyes. Then says she's PMSing and wants a hug. So we embrace. Then have a nice talk. Last night she stops me in the kitchen and hip checks me. Leans into me so we talk. I say what's up with you? We talk a it and I massage her shoulders. Then she asks me to go upstairs so we have sex. It was good. Not long enough but good. Perhaps she's coming around. A work in progress for sure. I'm still kind of in shock.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Don't get all sappy about it, continue the process. Let it work for you.


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## Garry2012

Ford, we have VERY similiar stories.

I would start you thinking like this:

1) she has been in contact with this guy longer than October, and he is most likely the reason for her drifting and losing " the connection". You essentially got the "i love you but not in love with you speech".
2) She needs space to try out the other guy. She most likely will sleep with him etc. to see how he compares to you. If she likes him better, she will leave you...if not she will come back to you as her "plan b"...at least until she finds another suitable replacement.

I think the 180 is good, and actually seems to have struck a nerve already...im a little jealous....mine never got to that point. But I would caution as lapsing into sleeping with her..she is still comparing you, and may be cake eating...or keeping you happy while she has her bf too.


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## hopeful101

Is there a way to view texts on an iphone? I am assuming infidelity and inappropriate texts, but all I've been able to find are apps that you put directly on that phone. I never have access to his phone. It's locked up tight.


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## 2yearsago

She had sex with you to placate you. It's textbook. Feel free to have more sex but realize there is a VERY high probability she is using it to make you think everything is going back to "normal".

You might think this sounds devious and brother I would have too at one point in time. It's not devious. It is how many women think when having an affair and to get their husband to shut up.


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## Fordsvt

Guys. Read the whole thread. She met him aug31 in NYC. She was with two other GFs. I caught the texting Oct4th. It was since stopped. He lives in Nebraska. We live in Canada. Not going to be seeing Him soon. I ve been watching everything. Her phone our computer Facebook email etc. I have a key logger on the computer. Nothing will slide by. So far I have nothing to show anymore contact. Yes there are apps to view old msgs. That is hit and miss to as far as info goes. This was her idea self image issue to see if other men found her attractive. To date I have seen no more info come out. I'm still watching. The 180 is working like a charm. She can pursue me now. I'm enjoying this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

You know your wife better than anybody else. If she thought you were checking out on her, she may have felt something. Maybe it's time to put some kinky move on her to stir the pot. Anyway she's getting some drama, making your lives interesting.

There are a least two states in between your W and OM.


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## Fordsvt

Yes life is interesting. I'm just letting her come to me at her own pace. Still doing the 180 here too. It's a great way to get a spouse to see that you can make it on your own. Now she is pursuing me so she may be worried. I'm out with my friends a lot. Out at the bar and other things too. Now she's asking who I'm texting and who's on the cell calling me. She does this a lot. Good. It's nice to be asked and pursued. I'm here so it's up to her. I'm not chasing pursuing asking calling or texting her. All the extras from me have been gone for over a month. This beautiful young woman has been treated like a princess our whole marriage. If she thinks she can find that with another then by all means. As far as the OM, he is 1200 miles away. I'm not worried. There also has been no contact. It's her call. I'm not going to beg pout or chase her. The balance of power has shifted to me. It's all up to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Still working with the 180....works well my friends.
Her cell bill came today-nothing on it. Nothing on the text/cell, computer etc....(keylogging)
I searched her car/closet/wallet - nothing. I was expecting to find something. I know I won't let my guard down for a long while now. 
She has changed back to her old self for about a week now.
I'm starting to wonder how deep this went? Seems like not much....we shall see.


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## Fordsvt

She noticed today that I read her cell bill online and was annoyed. What is the big deal? I don't get it. Would you not think that both parties need to be fully transparent in order for a reconciliation to work?? This is crazy. One day she's happy and asking me if I'd like to go to Mexico In Feb. Then she's mad about a cell bill. 
"I thought we were past this? So I guess this is where we are at again?"
Well yes...I'm watching from afar. Who had the EA again? Lied all through September about it.??What does she expect? Instant forgiveness...not going to happen.


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## anchorwatch

Ford, it's the ups and downs. Just stay with your course till it settles down. You've got this.


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## Fordsvt

Hey thanks for the kind words. I think so as well. The cell was clean along with everything else. I do think she has a right to some privacy. I'm staying the course and playing it cool. Time will tell but she seems to have no plans to leave. Neither do I. The 180 is working so just have to play it smart. I don't want to chase her away. Just going to work on me and look after the kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nogutsnoglory

Fordsvt said:


> Hey thanks for the kind words. I think so as well. The cell was clean along with everything else. I do think she has a right to some privacy. I'm staying the course and playing it cool. Time will tell but she seems to have no plans to leave. Neither do I. The 180 is working so just have to play it smart. I don't want to chase her away. Just going to work on me and look after the kids.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would be concerned about her attitude toward looking at her cell bill. Shows she values your feelings about this less than her own.
She should be more than willing to allow you to do things that build the trust she took away from your marriage. Instead she is being passive aggressive about it. I would tell her that she c an have all the privacy she wants. Leave. Or stay and live with the consequences of her behavior.
If this attitude continues, you have to make a decision.


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## Fordsvt

Yes she is being passive aggressive. She will show it to me but I have to ask. She's PA about a lot of things now. Not sure what she thinks she's gaining by this. Time will tell. Still no talk of her leaving. Just going to ride it out and see if she comes around. Some days she shows signs of snapping out of it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

anchorwatch said:


> Ford, it's the ups and downs. Just stay with your course till it settles down. You've got this.


Agree. Your wife's discontent is a season in her life. If you carry on the tactical 180, you can make your positive interactions count as a positive reward that should earn and not take for granted. 

Make sex memorable. If she says that she loves you, pause before you reply,

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## turnera

Fordsvt said:


> "I thought we were past this? So I guess this is where we are at again?"


Your reply:
"Of course it is. This is _your _consequence of _your _actions. Deal with it."


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## turnera

Fordsvt said:


> Hey thanks for the kind words. I think so as well. The cell was clean along with everything else. I do think she has a right to some privacy.


Describe privacy.


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## Fordsvt

Now she just called me to appologize and told me she switched it all back so I can view when I want. Your right. It's a season in her life. I just need to weather the storm. 
She is slowly coming around. The 180 is working. Time and space.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

anchorwatch said:


> Ford, it's the ups and downs. Just stay with your course till it settles down. You've got this.


Anchor you are so right. Went out Sat night with some people I work with. She had a great time. Them Sunday we went out for dinner with our group of friends and it was good. Monday was decent not bad. Tuesday she was a little down. Today down again. We had a long talk last night. Got some things on the table again. 
In the last two weeks she has talked about going to Disney next November. 
Perhaps a trip to Mexico at the end of February. Just us no kids.
Then spoke today of going to Wisconsin Dells this summer. 
All this in front of the kids. Wow is she mixed up!!? I'm not even sure we will be together in April. 
I guess she's not leaving ? WAW? Guess not. Some days it feels like she is out / done. Then this kind of talk about trips. 
We had sex four times last week. She initiated it all. Yet I'm still in 180 mode. 
Unreal.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Fordsvt said:


> We had sex four times last week. She initiated it all. Yet I'm still in 180 mode. Unreal.


No, just proof that the 180 works. Why? One, because we want what we can't have; we want a chase; it's exciting. Two, because the person who isn't clinging all over you is more attractive than the one who is.


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## temperance

Fordsvt said:


> Anchor you are so right. Went out Sat night with some people I work with. She had a great time. Them Sunday we went out for dinner with our group of friends and it was good. Monday was decent not bad. Tuesday she was a little down. Today down again. We had a long talk last night. Got some things on the table again.
> In the last two weeks she has talked about going to Disney next November.
> Perhaps a trip to Mexico at the end of February. Just us no kids.
> Then spoke today of going to Wisconsin Dells this summer.
> All this in front of the kids. Wow is she mixed up!!? I'm not even sure we will be together in April.
> I guess she's not leaving ? WAW? Guess not. Some days it feels like she is out / done. Then this kind of talk about trips.
> We had sex four times last week. She initiated it all. Yet I'm still in 180 mode.
> Unreal.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Congrat Ford, seems like she has made her mind up to work things out with you... btw.. what is the 180?


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## anchorwatch

I agree. What your doing is working. She's starting to realize the fear, from that slippery slope she put herself on. She's trying to get her footing back. She didn't realize you might be rocking the boat too.


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## Fordsvt

temperance said:


> Congrat Ford, seems like she has made her mind up to work things out with you... btw.. what is the 180?


Just google the Marriage 180 plan. It's a good read.
Follow it to the letter. I'm also reading about how to be more of an ALPHA Male. I'm kind of like that now but not enough IMHO. She has had it to good over the years and I feel perhaps complacency may have set in.
*Items she brought up in MC that I agree with:*
-We never go out and do fun things anymore.
-I've never met your co-workers
-She has always felt Dependent on me
-I've become negative and cynical over the last 5 years
-My life circles around her and our kids...not enough outside interests.

I'm a Corrections Officer. So negative and cynical-very likely.
I'm also doing EAP now to change that.
We have been out with my co-workers 4 times now since Sept
The 180 has changed how I interact with her. I go out a lot alone now too with friends. Things here have changed. 
I think you guys are right-she may be worried. I've also spend about $600 on new clothes since D-Day. New image and new attitude.
Not to mention we've done 3 two week family vacations in the last 4 years


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## Fordsvt

No kidding. I caught her having an EA for one month. 
Nothing further has happened from what I can tell. Believe me I've been watching too. 
So far the cell computer and iPad are clean. Time will tell
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Well she's back to wanting out again.
I guess the 180 still needs to be in place. No more sex either. It just complicates things too. I don't get her thinking at all. It's like Ebb and Flow back and forth


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## dontbeused

Fordsvt said:


> Well she's back to wanting out again.
> I guess the 180 still needs to be in place. No more sex either. It just complicates things too. I don't get her thinking at all. It's like Ebb and Flow back and forth


It is because you allow it. You are not strong enough. Re read your own thread. 
It is also why so many view your thread and so few post.
They can read that you won't listen to advice. In the experience of most on here, those that do not listen will eventually learn the hard way. You are on your way to the hard way. You can't turn the 180 on and off like a switch. This makes you look weak.


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## Fordsvt

Wow that was harsh. But in many ways I see your points too. I realize now that I shouldn't have caved in for sex. That was not smart. But she claimed she was trying hard to regain the connection. 

More of 180 is needed. She still thinks she's in the right. Unreal. Not going to cave any longer. I'm being played here. The EA is over and I'm still being played.

Advice please from all is needed. 
Thx.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Dontbeused I just PM'ed you
Advice please if you can
Thx


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## LongWalk

I suggest you decline to discuss relationship issues. She is in mode that spins and twists. You gain so little from debating an emotional state. How can you debate her crises. Better to be happy in the face of her caprice. 

She is not fair to you. You cannot argue. Your fair and considerate nature merely provokes her to abuse you. If you file for divorce, she will take you more seriously.

Give defiant people what they demand. They will either see their mistake or embrace their delusions. What better way to bring things to a head?

To save your marriage you must be prepared to lose it.

Take away the option of messing with your head.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## turnera

Ford, here is how the 180 works, how the alpha man behaves:
Do NOT beg for sex. Don't TAKE sex unless you're sure she's ready.
Spend your time focusing on your life, not hers. Go out and have fun and do fulfilling things that do not include her. Let her see you living a great life, let her see that you WILL be ok no matter what she does.


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## Fordsvt

I've been doing a lot of that. But I need to be more alpha for sure. That is where I lack some. 

She doesn't believe yet. That's on me. I guess I have to up the face value some. Deep down she is terrified to go. I can see it. I have to take the advantage 

Keep the thoughts coming guys. Thx.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

I have been setting up another place to live. I also will be separating the bank accounts soon. I will stay past Xmas for the kids. Then likely move out as I need space. 
You guys are all correct. I need to up the game and show her the BS is stopping. You guys are right. I'm too weak at times with her. 

She needs a dose or reality soon. Time to push a stack of chips to the centre of the table.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sammy3

Op, 

When my hubs move out, it really put distance between us. Today while trying to possibly R it is obvious how much, because it's almost like two people who don't know each other anymore. We are stranger in many ways now that we weren't before. 

Sometimes once a person decides to leave the relationship, and if there is any change of plans, the other party then may not want to take them back. Regardless who does the leaving. 

I'm really sorry you are here w the rest of us, none of this is what we want. 

~sammy


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## Fordsvt

I'm not sure what she would do if I left. She'd be upset, crying and mad I know that. But it's tough to live like this everyday. She needs to see I can be without her and that the games and BS are over.


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## Openminded

There's no point in thinking about what she would do. The 180 means you focus totally on your life and don't think about her life.


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## dontbeused

Fordsvt said:


> Well she's back to wanting out again.
> I guess the 180 still needs to be in place. No more sex either. It just complicates things too. I don't get her thinking at all. It's like Ebb and Flow back and forth


Those girls that she was in NYC with are not friends of your marriage and likely she has said things to them to justify stepping out and flirting. Blame shifted all the marriage crap, as being your fault, he does not show me love, blah, blah, blah. They think poorly of you, and likely encourage her to "have some fun". Very common for a WS to do this, especially amongst woman. Do not allow her to hang out with those woman any longer. You do not care if they are like sisters to one another, it is not your problem. They are toxic when together, that is proven.
Your W should be showing enough remorse and respect to you after what she did that asking to go out with out you should be the last thing she would try. Not surprising given the nature of her that you have well described, that she is more interested in herself than you though.


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## Fordsvt

I told her I was off to a Self Help Sex Help this aft. The look on her face was priceless. She was stunned. That was worth every effort. I need some help and I will follow through. 

I've started a MAP too. It is critical to look after myself here. Not her. Also the kids needs are a top priority for me. Her needs are on the back burner now. For along time too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

After discussing things. I told her last night I need to move out. So we can have space to get out minds clear. Too much conflict right now to accomplish much. She was very shocked.

Then I can see where she's at. It still feels like she is on the fence and unsure. I know this won't change unless we get apart. This has worked for three couples we know. They ended up staying in the marriage. It will be a peaceful split. We are not out to get each other. Just need time and distance for now. Time will tell.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Fordsvt said:


> She needs to see I can be without her and that the games and BS are over.


Ah...so you're moving out to manipulate her.

Good luck with that.


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## Fordsvt

No actually I need space and time to figure things out. She also needs a dose of reality. 
She thinks she's in control. She's not and needs to realize this. It's a 50/50 balance to me. For her it's not. 

Manipulation has nothing to do with it at all. She can do what she likes. I wish her luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The 180 has NOTHING to do with 'what she needs.' 

The 180 is when you STOP doing anything in order to get a response from her. When you stop wanting her to learn something, or get a 'dose of reality,' or do what you want.

It IS manipulation.


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## Fordsvt

Not doing it to get a response. I don't give a rip what she thinks. I need space to even figure out if I want to save this marriage. 
I don't care right now about anything to do with her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

Good.


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## cdbaker

Turnera, he mentioned the "she needs to see I can be without her..." line last week, well before deciding and informing her that a separation is necessary. In posting about the separation, he didn't say anything about doing it in order to effect a change in her, only about doing it for his own needs. So IMHO, I don't think this is a manipulation issue, or at least not from what I have read thus far.


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## Chaparral

You friends experience not withstanding, the odds you will divorce after seperation is extreme. Onle twenty percent of the couples that seperate stay married. In other words, do not seperate if you want to stay married.

Maybe you have decided you like the single life.


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## turnera

cd, it's manipulation because he wants to get a specific response from her. Whether he's deciding to stay or go, he's trying to get her to do what he wants.


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## Fordsvt

Ok Turnera-what do you you suggest.???

My thinking here is that she is such a roller coaster emotionally, I can't take it. If I stay, I may end up hating her. I don't want that at all. We need time to clear our minds to move forward. I hate to do this to my kids, I really do. As for her, she needs to figure this sh$t out on her own. 

If I stay, it is just buying her time to make up her mind at her pace. She wanted me to stay till May and see if we put the house up for sale. I feel like she's using me as a safety net.

I didn't realize that the odds of getting back together were so low. It has worked for three couples we know to date.


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## turnera

I don't give a hoot if you stay or move out. that has nothing to do with YOU doing a 180.

What you need right now is to leave her out of your equation. THAT is what 180 is. It's about NOT CARING what she does, because you are too busy fixing YOURSELF.

We tell people to do the 180 for one reason - because you have no control over your wife and you never did. From the day you met her. And doing the 180 is what YOU NEED to do, to find your peace of mind. You will never find peace of mind if you continue to focus on her. 

And yes, despite all your protestations, you ARE still focused on her. Trust me, we've seen it a million times here. 

You'll KNOW when you stop focusing on her.


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## Fordsvt

You are right. But the focus is not on her. We communicate very little right now. It's sad really. 
Did some reading and many MC s see separating as a good thing. Many claim to have a 50/50 success rate. I guess I will find out. I think it's going to be more of a controlled separation. I still want to save this. She says she wants out but it still feels like she's on the fence at times

There are days I want out too. But I think it's critical we make this choice with clear minds.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The reason separation would be good is so the two of you could learn to be ok by yourselves and figure out who you are without being attached to someone at the hip. It's like when people divorce, it's suggested that you not date anyone for a month for every year you've been married, so you can learn to be ok by yourself and not just jump to any relationship just to not be alone.


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## Fordsvt

I agree. It will allow us both to see what it's like on our own. I think it's needed and warranted at this time. If she has a change of heart I may stay but not sure. I need to focus on me and my two kids. Not her. 

We all need space here. It will give time to reflect on the past. Do we forgive? Can we make a new future?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

The reason wayward spouses like separation is so they can have their affair in privacy. That she does not want to separate and does want to go to marriage counseling is a good sign.

Lets say you separate now. When she is lonely and troubled, who is she going to go to for emotional support?................Exactly


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## Fordsvt

I think she would call one of friends or mother first. She is stubborn like a mule. I don't think she's going to cave into me that fast. Hard to say. I think there is still hope. She has said she wants out but actions speak louder than words.


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## temperance

Sorry you are in such a dump right now. To be honest with you I don't really get the 180 plan. I understand it, it looks good in theory, but I don't see how it will work in reality. You know Karl Marx also looks great in theory, but look at communism in practice! 

I am also in a dump and in no position to give advice. BUT, I agree with turnera, you gotta work on yourself and just leave her be. She is having (or had) an EA, because somewhere somehow she thinks you are not giving her the emotional support she needs from you. She is odd to blame you on anything and everything to justify her action. 

Speaking in a woman's point of view (or my own point of view). I am not in an EA, but I am also not getting what's important to me from my husband and hence the emotional instability - back and forth. One moment I think I can work thinks out with him and 'try' to park my anger away and try to be nice to him again. One moment I just get sooo angry at him, and then at myself and become depress and even self-destruct. Now I know your wife might not be going through the things I am going through. BUT.... i don't see by executing the 180 (and be man-up enough, be in control enough), that to 'teach her a lesson' is going to bring her back or help you in the situation. 

I think separation and taking care of yourself is a better way to go.... even thought if she is still not leaving (serving you paper) or move out on her own, somewhere there she still loves you. By separating and clearing your head and let her clear hers, she might come back.


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## Fordsvt

I'm sure the EA is done but if not, oh well. She is mixed up in a MLC and needs to figure it out on her own. Nothing I say will change her mind. Yes we still love each other but the connection was lost years ago by her. She just never told me at all no matter how many times I asked. 

I'm working on myself daily using my MAP and doing the 180. It's all I can do for now. I'm also in EAP along with a support group for Sex Addiction. The look on her face when I told her about the counselling was priceless. I think she figured I would just talk with no action. To be honest, I don't think I have an addiction at all. I haven't looked at it in almost 3 weeks since she caiught me. I was using porn and chat rooms as an outlet. I have no desire to watch it-zero.

Yes I plan to move out in January sometime. I don't want to ruin xmas for the kids so I will stay for that. Not sure if we can save this. I told her the door is open if she wishes to try with more MC. It's up to her. I'm focused on myself and the kids now.


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## Fordsvt

I just told her at 8 pm I'm going out tonight with some co workers. She was in the US Black Friday shopping and got home at three pm today. 

She hasn't said anything but she is pissed. All I'm trying to do is be unpredictable and keep my MAP going along with the 180. She says she wants out so I'm looking after me and the kids.
I don't think I'm wrong here. But of course she wants to know where and who I'm going with. I guess she still cares.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

The 180 is what YOU do for YOURSELF, when your spouse is on the way out. It helps you detach, and it helps you realize that you will survive, no matter what happens. And a side benefit is that sometimes, it wakes up the wayward/walkaway spouse and gets them to see what they're giving up.


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## Fordsvt

That's what I'm hoping for is that she wakes up. Still running my MAP and the 180. We barely talk now when in the same room. She gets mad when I go out or do other things without her. But does not start conversation at all. Seems very depressed???

Maybe she is seeing that I'm checking out too? I'm more detached for sure. We are in such limbo. I have two potential places to move too in 2 months or so. I'm not sitting still at all here. I'm always on the net reading about all this. From what I see she doesn't at all. I want to learn as much as possible about separation, 180, MAP, my rights, sex rank, everything.


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## temperance

Awww... Ford, she is not going to wake up. Turnera is saying you shouldn't be 'hoping' for anything changes from her end. Forget about her reaction on whatever you do. 

I know your goal is to have her remorseful because the EA hurts you, at the same time you want her to come back to you and love you again because you obviously do not want to lose her. 

My suggestions (which I hope is not going to do more damage), is that you need to pretend nothing has happen, totally forgive/forget about her EA, and even shows more affections, loving and pretty much do better than before... like how you need to chase her again and show that you are 'better' than any guy out there, plus you gotta show her you really don't want to lose her. Well at least that is working for me from my husband, any of displease and distance from him actually shows me he doesn't love me enough and that secure my thought that divorcing him is a right one, but when he put in just a little bit of affection and effort I again reconsider because I love the guy. Since she had try to spice up the sex live she had shown she is willing to try, maybe the porn does bother her A LOT (different woman react to porn issue differently, some of my girlfriends do see this as a major disrespect, womanizer behavior and kind of an infidelity too), and all other issues tend to magnified when she is angry. This may work with your goal to have her come back to you with these few weeks over Christmas before you decide to move on. Yes I am suggesting to do the opposite of what you are doing now. 

BUT... knowing your story... it seems that she has been taking you for granted, you have already treated her like a princess!!! Doing what I have suggested would probably kill you emotionally, wouldn't it? She should at least feel remorseful, after all she was in the wrong to cheat on you! So you got to ask yourself, the grieve of not losing her and break your family apart is worth it to forgive (forget) about the EA even though it is difficult? Or is it worth it to go on and heal yourself because you won't be able to get pass the hurt and resentment over her affair, this may potentially work better for you and your kids in the future, after all you deserve to be happy too? 

You are a correction officer, maybe you already know how damaging kids grow up with bitter parents? Kids don't learn love growing up with bitter parents trying to 'cope' with each other in the same household.

BTW, I don't think you have an 'addiction' problem. If you are telling us during those days when she initiate sex, and you were not interested at all because you would rather go for the porn, then yes you have a problem, but no that wasn't the case. Just saying... you don't want to waste time fixing something that is not broken in the first place.


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## Fordsvt

Sorry, but I'm not switching anything up. What I'm doing is working right now. She told me this am she's actually on the fence still. We are going to split in January I believe as it is needed. What your asking me to do makes me look very weak.


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## Tobyboy

Fordsvt said:


> Sorry, but I'm not switching anything up. What I'm doing is working right now. She told me this am she's actually on the fence still. We are going to split in January I believe as it is needed. What your asking me to do makes me look very weak.


She's just "humping your leg".....trying to de-rail your progress. Keep up the good work....on yourself!!!


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## Fordsvt

I think your right. I told her last night after she booked another MC meeting for us we need to make a choice. Controlled Separation is meaning we are trying to reconcile. Or we can fully separate and go for mediation. Time for a choice here. She took the controlled Sep one.

I guess she's on the fence. Sharp contrast from last week. I think it scared the hell out of her when I said I'm moving out at the end of Jan 2014. No more screwing around. The MAP is working as I can tell she was eying me in my tight new t-shirt. I've lost 15 Lbs. in 4 months and my abs are coming back. 6'3'' and 228 Lbs is not bad to look at for her. Time to get ripped...


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## Fordsvt

Tobyboy said:


> She's just "humping your leg".....trying to de-rail your progress. Keep up the good work....on yourself!!!



Too funny but your right though. We have a joint MC session on Monday so we shall see where we are at. She has now agreed to a Controlled Separation and Reconciliation. I wonder if she sticks to it??


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## FormerSelf

Dude, you are totally doing it the right way. Stay strong and don't let her pissy attitude bring you down. The fact that she is losing steam on being so adamant about divorce shows that she really is being observant about the changes you are making...and goes to show that when you give them space and work on yourself, they start thinking more rationally.

Good job.

And watch, when you stay firm on your stance that you very much intend to follow through with the trial separation...and the day gets closer...she is going to show more an more insecurity. Right now, she is trying to gain power in the situation by being pissy...but that no longer has any power over you. You aren't being led around by her emotions...and are making clear-minded decisions. I imagine when the time comes for the separation, she will start to show her fear and worry more...may try to sob-story you to change your mind...or try to use sex to rope you back in. If that indeed takes place, do not bend or give in...stay on track (even when she flips out on you for not going for it). At the same time, you ought to start developing your specific goals during the separation...cos if you indeed want to reconcile...then that controlled separation should be just that: controlled...with the help of the MC hopefully...and with a clear idea about what changes you are adamant that need to take place. You are now in the position to insist upon the kind of marriage that you want...and if your wife succeeds in getting over herself...she may fight to try to meet your need...because you taking leadership in this way is in a way meeting hers.

Stay postive and keep fighting the good fight. And even if it doesn't pan out...the fact that you are making these changes for yourself...you are already altering your life's trajectory. You win no matter what.


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## Fordsvt

I have a feeling your right about when it gets closer to me leaving. She was blown away when I said this. Also opting for the controlled separation too. She may ask me not to go. That will depend on her attitude and how the MC goes in the next month.

She was asking questions last night about my support group. Where it was and how many people were there. She seems very interested in what I'm up too these days. I'm really not sure some days if I want to save this. The EA doesn't even bother me anymore. I'm becoming detached from her and it's an odd feeling. She will need to step back into my space and try hard to make this work or I think it's over. I won't step into her space-that I know.


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## Fordsvt

She has been very quiet the last few days. Says very little and jus small talk. I've tried being a little more chatty but no luck so far. 

Still running my map. Slowed the 180 a little. She knows I plan to move out so no use being a major hard ass about it. One thing is she has done zero to figure out how life will work once I move out. No pre planning at all from what I see. I suspect she may not believe me. Both my doctor and lawyer(friend) think I should move out. To clear our heads and keep the stress levels down. I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Ford, my main concern here is on you moving out and how that could effect things if it goes to divorce down the road. Typically speaking, you should never move out, especially when kids are involved. I find it interesting that your lawyer friend would agree that you should move out however, so maybe there is something here that I'm not understanding fully.

Maybe she doesn't believe you will really leave. Maybe she is just the type who doesn't plan much for things. Who knows. In the mean time, keep working on yourself. And how is the porn issue coming along? I know you said you have lost your desire for it, but it'll come back, I promise you.


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## karole

I agree with CD, you need to talk with an attorney before moving out and get a separation agreement in place. You moving out of the home can be seen as abandonment in the court's eyes.


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## Fordsvt

With a controlled sep there is a contract in place. No lawyers bank accts stay the same agree on the kids etc. it's a trial separation really. 

At the marriage counsellor yesterday I detected much ambivalence with her. It was not like that before at all. She have me credit for going to EAP and therapy. Also stated I've changed a lot. I was shocked. She broke down twice in the hour. I did not. I stayed alpha and cool. Supportive but cool. She is scared I believe because the future is clouded. She is a huge planner and now she is lost on what to do. 

She made statements of " he's all I've ever known". " he goes about business in the house like nothing is wrong " 
" he has made changes with himself". Perhaps she may want to work things out ? 
My MAP is working. This I can see. Yes I don't mope around and drag my bottom lip. I'm working on me for the better. 
She may ask me to stay by the end of January.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

Sounds like all good news.

It also sounds like you are describing a legal separation? If everything is done on paper and signed by both parties, then I could see that protecting you legally if you do end up moving out. That makes sense. I didn't realize it was going to be drawn up legally like that.


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## Fordsvt

It's legal but with perameters. She is on the fence here. She may ask me to stay before move out day. 
Others have posted that too. Not sure. If it wasn't much better I think I'd still go. Not to prove anything or to teach her a lesson. Only to clear the air and. Get some space. 

She needs to meet me half way. Or it is futile. How much or not does she want this. Her actions will determine that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

It's been over a month-No Porn. No desire either. I'm quite disgusted with myself for all that. I made a huge error and over stepped some major boundaries.
I'm in a good place mentally. When we discuss separation she breaks down always. Last night same thing again. She is scared to be on her own. Wants to be on her own(or she thinks). But I'm her safety net. She can't get past that.
Keep the ideas / comments coming
Thx


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## turnera

Are you still in the same house for now? If so, find LITTLE things for her to do that you used to do for her, decisions you used to make, car or house fixes you used to do...little ways for her to find that independence, yet still see she CAN be independent yet still live with you.


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## Fordsvt

I have been doing some of that. But I still want to move out. This will take her safety net away and make it hit home. When we talk about me leaving she always breaks down. Scared of the unknown and I think she needs to see how it's like on her own. I'm not interested in playing house with her any longer. We just sit in limbo then.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cdbaker

I think you have the right idea. My concern is where you said that she WANTS to be alone/independent but is just afraid to be. You don't want her keeping you around because she is afraid to be alone, that's not love. It's better for her to see that she CAN be independent but WANTS to be with you instead.

How it the 180 going?


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## Fordsvt

The 180 and the MAP are going great. So good in fact we talked till 1am last night. We worked out some things. Then she asked me for coffee today between clients. We have decided to stay together and try to work on us and our relationship:smthumbup:

Her mode of thinking has changed in the last month. I can't explain it except my changes I've made to myself. Good news and she was really sincere too. I'm quite happy. We have work to do but I'm ready for it


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## turnera

Fordsvt said:


> Her mode of thinking has changed in the last month. I can't explain it except my changes I've made


That's what we keep telling everyone!


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## Fordsvt

And I must say Tunera you were correct on all counts. All the advice you gave ringed true. 
The 180 and running my MAP did it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## turnera

I forget - is she much younger than you?


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## Fordsvt

No I'm 42 and she is 41. After MC last week lots changed. She realized I had three places in the works to move to. 
I wasn't kidding. She was worried I'd not come back. 
Also became jealous when other women paid attention to me. 
I expressed I was in a great place mentally. She was not. Very stressed. 
I'd come to terms with us being over if indeed it was. 
I explained I had started looking at condos or a small house. 
Her thinking was very ambivalent at MC on this day. I read it just right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Well so far it's been going quite good. Not moving out and we agreed to work on it for awhile. We're going to give it time and she seems very relieved. 
We also booked a trip to the Mayan in Mexico for seven nights leaving Feb 23 rd. We both seem to have some up and down days but we are going in the right direction. Will it work ? I hope so but all we can do is try hard and be open.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67

Fordsvt said:


> Well so far it's been going quite good. Not moving out and we agreed to work on it for awhile. We're going to give it time and she seems very relieved.
> We also booked a trip to the Mayan in Mexico for seven nights leaving Feb 23 rd. We both seem to have some up and down days but we are going in the right direction. Will it work ? I hope so but all we can do is try hard and be open.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You became more attractive as you showed confidence and women were noticing you.
Funny how this happens.
Good job keep working on you.


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## turnera

Just don't forget that this 'new' you has to BE you.


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## Fordsvt

Turnera not to worry. That's not going to happen. I like who I've become so far and the work is far from over. Wife says I've made great changes too. So has she. I still do EAP twice a month and we still do MC joint once a month. It's a process and I explained that to her. 

Still running my MAP too. Not so much 180 now. 
Sex has really been good. 
Going to get an arm band tattoo. May pierce my left ear again. 
The newer me feels good and will get even stronger. 
More Alpha as well and way less Beta.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Read Bagdon and Jerry123


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## Fordsvt

LongWalk said:


> Read Bagdon and Jerry123


Ok but why?? Do you think I have false hope??


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## blackdog

Fordsvt said:


> Turnera not to worry. That's not going to happen. I like who I've become so far and the work is far from over. Wife says I've made great changes too. So has she. I still do EAP twice a month and we still do MC joint once a month. It's a process and I explained that to her.
> 
> Still running my MAP too. Not so much 180 now.
> Sex has really been good.
> Going to get an arm band tattoo. May pierce my left ear again.
> The newer me feels good and will get even stronger.
> More Alpha as well and way less Beta.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Inspiring!


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## Fordsvt

Thx Blackdog. It's been a tough road since August. The most enduring time of my life. 
I thought we were done for sure. Funny how it can all change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Fordsvt said:


> Ok but why?? Do you think I have false hope??


Bagdon and Jerry work at their relationships and do not relax.

Jerry just post on ReGroup's thread


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## Fordsvt

Which thread. ? Thx.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Bagdon

Jerry123 has more than one thread. This one skips to the end. For a very long time Jerry felt his wife was cheating.

To save time you can start with the at which he succeeded in turning things around. If you find it inspiring you can go back and read his earlier threads.


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## Chaparral

I think the chances jerry's wife wasn't sleeping with the neighbor are slim and none. The way they were treating him was tantamount to an affair even if they hadn't consummated the deal.


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## Fordsvt

I hope for him she wasn't. He's worked hard to turn it around. 

I'm doing the same here. Most days are great but some are hard. Same for her too. It's a long road back for us but I think we can do this. Wish I could for see the future a year from now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

My memory fails me. Have you read Marrried Man Sex Life Primer, the most important book for men only? and No More Mister Nice Guy. NMMNG can be downloaded free. MMSLP is available at the link below or Amazon.


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## LongWalk

Jerry did a great job for himself, his kids and wife.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## Fordsvt

Chaparral said:


> My memory fails me. Have you read Marrried Man Sex Life Primer, the most important book for men only? and No More Mister Nice Guy. NMMNG can be downloaded free. MMSLP is available at the link below or Amazon.


Yes I've read them both. Those books changed my thinking big time and made me see what I was missing.
Now reading the 5 Languages of Love and His Needs Her Needs.


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## jerry123

Seen my name has been brought up here. 

You're doing great from what I read!!

Keep it up and stay confident. I think the 180 can be dangerous going forward now. You should engage her more now but stay ****y and confident. If you guys are working toward saving the marriage you both need to communicate more. 

Keep doing your own thing. OI and going out with friends. 

Does she initiate sex more than you now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

Hi jerry. Yes it's going pretty god. Lots of work to do. I've mostly stopped the 180 but still being Alpha more than before. She actually initiates morning sex. We hadn't done that in many years. It's been great. Is say we've had sex 20 times since Xmas or so. The books have helped too.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jerry123

Oh good!!

See I have a wife who is generally more Alpha than most females so its a battle for me. I have to step up my game most every day. 

She runs a division at her work with both male and females who report to her. She has in the past tried to take her job home and treat me like an employee. 

Coupled with the fact I'm a SAHD (I do work at daughters school sometimes). 

My wife is an introvert where I am opposite. She has zero female friends and never goes out with any girls. 

Anyway, congrats. Do you post on MMSG forum?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

No I don't post on that forum. I read it time time. 
Time will tell for us. Like I said. Work to do and no complacency for me. It's been a long road but I'm stronger for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Fordsvt

I talked about getting a Tattoo on this thread and I got it done.
Will post a pick soon here. Changes have been good.


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## Fordsvt

As Promised..................


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## LongWalk

Is that a famous runic penis decoration?


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## Fordsvt

HAha. Funny guy.nope just an arm band.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Fordsvt said:


> HAha. Funny guy.nope just an arm band.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You had it put in the wrong place...............not enough room?


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## Fordsvt

Hello again. Just an update s I haven't been here much.
We are still together and it's been going pretty good. We,ve both been open and honest about everything and the tension has cooled a lot. We also have been doing date nights and going out more. I think the connection is coming back once again. We average sex 2-3 times a month. Sometimes more. 
I feel the darkness is behind us now. I'm still on guard of course but there has been nothing. So far so good. 
Read many books too about relationships, building, and the MMSLP helped a lot to as well the big one for me- NMMNG book.


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## weightlifter

I'm hoping for you.


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