# Am I being paranoid?



## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

My H hasn't cheated again. At least, not that I know of. However, I am having a problem coping with something that I could use your advice on. 

Lil' bit of background:

Me and H are both 31 years old. 

H has had two affairs that I know about. 

First one he said was a ONS - only I found out 4 years later (about 3 years ago) that he slept with her the next morning as well. Thing is, he was out of town for training, and flew home that night and had sex with me (Had sex with her the night before and next morning - flew home that evening and had sex with me). I was beyond disgusted. It felt like the affair happened all over again. I found out about the affair because he couldn't stop talking about her. It was like he was 16 with a crush and telling me about all of the things they were doing together...

His story for that affair went like:

"There was no girl"
"okay she came by to talk, she was fighting with her bf"
"She stayed in the room, but she slept in the extra bed"
"okay I had sex with her that night"

4 years later....He said something that didn't add up... I asked if he slept with her more than once. He responded with:

"I don't know"
"I really don't remember"
"I slept with her the next morning too. 

The second one happened on a deployment. His story went like the first affair did...

"She is fat and such a b*tch"

After I found her pic on FB - (He was still on the deployment and I was pregnant)

Me: You lied. She's not fat.
Him: How do you know?
Me: Facebook
Him: Well, I never said she was
Me: Seriously?
Him: Yeah, you're paranoid

After he got home - I waited because he can't lie to my face. I can tell if he is. 

2 weeks after our son was born (our son was born the day after he got home)

Me: So, tell me about what happened
Him: Nothing - (He couldn't even look at me)
Me: Why are you shaking then?
Him: (stuttering) Okay. She tried to hold my hand while we were standing on the flight line. 
Me: That's it? What did you do?
Him: I pulled away.
Me: that's good. So, why do you look like you're going to throw up?
Him: I just feel guilty
Me: For what? You did the right thing if that's what happened.

He looked at me and I swear went pale as a ghost.

Me: What? Is that not all?
Him:That's not what happened.
Me: ???
Him: I was in the truck with her going to get lunch for everyone and had my hand on the middle console. She put her hand on mind and we held hands the whole way there.
Me: Uh huh.
Him: I looked out the window the whole time.
Me: okay.
Him: Are you mad?
Me: I'm in disbelief. We're not in 5th grade. I've played this game with you before. Is that all that happened?
Him: Yes. 

He STILL looked like he was going to throw up everywhere. So, I have no proof that he had a PA with her, but I have proof it was an EA from some emails I saw and the way he was being a d*ck to me the entire deployment up until she left. After she left, he was back to me like I was the best thing since sliced bread.


Sorry that part was long.

Now, my problem...

A few new people have started work at the shop. One is a female. Normally, I have zero issues with this. The last new girl to start there (she started like 8 months ago), I have no issues with. She is awesome and I love her! I'm even jealous of her perfect freaking skin lol. My H NEVER talked about her. Ever. So, I knew he wasn't interested, my extra sense didn't ping. 

The one that just started last week is a different problem. I haven't met her. I don't creep his shop looking for new people, though I probably should soon. :grin2: Anyway, I know more about her than the other female that's been there for 8 months!!! He talks about her CONSTANTLY.

I know her age, her height, her weight....

My H has talked about different jokes they've been playing on each other. 

H talked about how he's teasing her because she didn't know who he was at first. So, anytime she needs to talk to him - he's like "Oh no, I don't know Sgt Starrz" or "no, no...you didn't know who I was..." etc, etc. 

She gets brought up at least 4 times a day. It's starting to get on my nerves. 

She's only been there a freaking week and I've heard more about her than anyone else that's been there. Seriously? He volunteered all of that info. I asked how she was learning the new job...that's it. Over the past week, I've got that. Nothing about how she is an a co worker...just personal information about her height and weight...

So, I know I sound like a delusional psycho...annnd maybe I am. I hate feeling like an insecure freak. 

I guess what I'm asking is, should my cheater sense be acting up or am I just being completely stupid? I haven't mentioned this to my H because I don't want to go there again unless I have reason to. Right now, I just have a paranoia.  

This isn't normal, is it?


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

Umm, hell no you aren't being paranoid! Your gut is always right. It was before, you know the signs.

Is your goal to try to stop this from progressing? Or are you going to stay quiet and catch him after it progresses?

It is a tough call, I would tend to let it happen. He has cheated twice, that is two more times than many people would forgive. It looks like he might not have learned a thing. His behavior indicates he has a massive need for ego kibble from other women, that is just not OK and it should have been dealt with after the first affair. 

Sorry you are going through this. 

Brush up on @weightlifter Standard Evidence Post , it sounds like you are going to need it.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

kristin2349 said:


> Umm, hell no you aren't being paranoid! Your gut is always right. It was before, you know the signs.
> 
> Is your goal to try to stop this from progressing? Or are you going to stay quiet and catch him after it progresses?
> 
> ...


Thanks. 

It does feel good to know that I'm not completely crazy. I know that if I am cheated on again, it's my own fault. I stayed. 

I haven't' decided if I am going to stay quiet or ruffle some feathers. I've always confronted immediately (as soon as I had proof).

Technically, he hasn't done anything wrong. So, I can't...or I feel like I can't say anything. I don't want him to see me as weak and insecure. I've stood strong with my boundaries this time and I've made sure he's very aware of what they are. 

He's actually done really well the past 8 months or so. He is completely transparent. The issue is, he wouldn't need to text or email her. She's there. 

He also works late frequently during training missions (which start again next week - he said he has to work late Wed and Fri). However, I have access to bank accounts and credit cards. 

I found something strange, and it could be total coincidence, He mentioned he needed to work late last Friday. The mission didn't start until 8 pm and it was at another base that requires an hour drive to get there. So, he would leave at 7pm and the mission wouldn't be done until about 2 am. After I asked about the schedule sheet (I told him I needed to see his days off for appointments for the kids) - his whole story changed. 

The mission was no longer taking place...then it changed to it was taking place, but someone else was going - then it cancelled again. All in like a 48 time period. Now, this COULD happen with the military. It happens frequently. 

I don't know. I feel like I'm looking way too much into it, trying to prevent myself from being burned. That's why I haven't mentioned it to him. It's not fair to him if he's doing everything right. 

Maybe I'm just having a rough patch....back to my therapist I go hah!


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Be vigilant!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

uuuugggggg! Even I got paranoid reading your post and I am not even married to the guy. 

Obviously there are some issues with trust in your relationship that may be beyond repair. You have to ask yourself the following question... If your husband were to be completely honest with you about everything and make himself completely vulnerable to you, and you found out that other things inappropriate have happened, WOULD his complete honesty help restore your trust in him so that the two of you could work on things OR would your worst fears of him doing things with other women overcome you with disgust and cause you to separate? 

If he has been playing around and feels ashamed of himself (thus the look like he might throw up), this shame is your worst enemy as it can skew his behaviors and emotions into thinking other women accept him for who he is and that you do not. In the rare event you can get him to overcome this shame and let him know that you love and accept him, these playful trysts and flirtations with other women will loose their flair. 

Personally I have never been unfaithful to my wife other than a brief emotional affair that I did not understand what was going on at the time. I have often asked myself why I have never had the urge to explore elsewhere as it seems all our other friends have issues with infidelity. After many long moments of reflecting about our friends and my own relationship it is that I know my wife loves and accepts me EVEN though I have my awkward vices and habits that she does not mind to tolerate. In all our friends relationships there seems to be an underlying issue with self-acceptance (for the one who cheated) or disapproval/nagging from the other partner. 

So mentally prepare yourself for the worst if that is where you find yourself trying to repair trust and search inside for how you would react to him. Then you can choose to just try to ignore things (what most people seem to do) or confront the issues head on and try to work on them. 

Seems like I am rambling, but hope that helps...

Badsanta


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I remember posting on your other threads. I'm not a fan of your husband. He's a serial cheater and there's no reason to think he'll change. 

Yes, I think you have something to worry about. He's obviously interested in her. Time will tell whether he thinks he can get away with cheating under your nose or not. I don't think he's usually that bold but she might be the exception to the "no cheating while stationed nearby" rule. 

Don't be caught off guard this time. IIRC, you're a SAHM far from family? Last time you didn't want to move back home because it would take the boys from their father? I assume that's still the situation. Plenty of women stay with cheating husbands because they can't figure out an alternative. If that's not what you want then start working on a plan before you have proof he's cheating again and emotions get involved.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> It's not fair to him if he's doing everything right.
> 
> Maybe I'm just having a rough patch....back to my therapist I go hah!


Fair left with the first affair.


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## kristin2349 (Sep 12, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> My H hasn't cheated again. At least, not that I know of. However, I am having a problem coping with something that I could use your advice on.
> 
> Lil' bit of background:
> 
> ...


*I think you know in your heart he is starting up again and is fishing for another affair. I would bet both hands on it. I'm sorry.*


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

I'm sorry . MY gut is screaming reading what you've written. You're not at all paranoid.

Are you ready to call it quits if you have proof? Are you ready to do the work to get evidence? I think that's what people here would advise that you do. So sorry.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I thought he cheated on his most recent deployment (didn't he return from another one last year) or am I getting confused with the deployment when you were pregnant?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

IMO the worst cheats are the ones who throw it in the spouse's face the way your H does. Because they see YOU as nothing more than yet another vehicle for stroking HIS ego, just like the other women. You are not a human to him, but a way to make him feel good.

When will you have enough?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

How many other people does he have to sleep with for you to decide to put your foot down?

For the record, retired military here, so I am fully aware of the culture of infidelity it has.

Sorry, but he is a dirtbag.

You will be better without him.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

badsanta said:


> uuuugggggg! Even I got paranoid reading your post and I am not even married to the guy.
> 
> Obviously there are some issues with trust in your relationship that may be beyond repair. You have to ask yourself the following question... If your husband were to be completely honest with you about everything and make himself completely vulnerable to you, and you found out that other things inappropriate have happened, WOULD his complete honesty help restore your trust in him so that the two of you could work on things OR would your worst fears of him doing things with other women overcome you with disgust and cause you to separate?
> 
> ...




Actually, you do hit home. I tried to be understanding with the first one. I talked to him, and tried to figure out what I could do better to improve the relationship. 

During R and up to the second affair, I did have a few outbursts where I said some nasty things to him. That probably didn't make him feel safe with me. 

He had issues with porn to. Not the "I'm a prude my H watches porn" issues...the "my H watches porn instead of having sex with me - anywhere from 2-6 hours a day every single day" issue. So, I wasn't being a safe person for him to talk with all of the time. Most of the time I was there 100%, but once every 2-3 months...I couldn't deal. 

So, I know I am to blame there for sure. 

I think with this EA from that deployment - I think something else happened, because the story just sounds so off to me. But I have no proof and obviously he isn't saying otherwise. So, it's difficult to know what I'm forgiving. I think if I knew, I could / would be more calm about the situation.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

alte Dame said:


> I'm sorry . MY gut is screaming reading what you've written. You're not at all paranoid.
> 
> Are you ready to call it quits if you have proof? Are you ready to do the work to get evidence? I think that's what people here would advise that you do. So sorry.


I am very prepared to leave if he does it again. I've been just so out of it the past few years and lately, I've been asking myself why I'm wasting so much time on someone who would do this.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Openminded said:


> I thought he cheated on his most recent deployment (didn't he return from another one last year) or am I getting confused with the deployment when you were pregnant?


Sorry. It does get so confusing because he's been on so many. The most recent deployment he returned home from in October 2014. He did not (not that I know of) cheat on me on that one. He ended up lying to me about about something pretty minor. It wasn't a big deal and we worked that part out.

It was the deployment before from October 2012 to April 2013 that he had the EA. 

I found out about her on Halloween that year.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> IMO the worst cheats are the ones who throw it in the spouse's face the way your H does. Because they see YOU as nothing more than yet another vehicle for stroking HIS ego, just like the other women. You are not a human to him, but a way to make him feel good.
> 
> When will you have enough?


I can see why so many people have a hard time leaving. It's a familiar spot. My kids - He loves them so much. I feel almost selfish thinking about leaving. I know it all sounds so stupid. 

I will leave if he does it again though. He knows this. My best friend is waiting back home with her door wide open to give me temporary living while I search for a house. I have planned it all out this time.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> How many other people does he have to sleep with for you to decide to put your foot down?
> 
> For the record, retired military here, so I am fully aware of the culture of infidelity it has.
> 
> ...


He knows this is my last straw he's on. I have a part time job right now (actually started this job 2 months ago as a volunteer - but they hired me on part time recently). I can easily bump it to full time and have myself a nice income. I don't need the money to leave him. I can easily get a job back home if I need to. I would be set and good to go. There is enough money in our savings accounts for me to be fine for a while. 

The last time he cheated on me, I started working out a plan in case I needed to make that decision to leave. I finished my certification and started my Master's Degree. I started networking myself a while ago. I've hosted several events and have been volunteering my time out to network myself. I'm actually proud of what I've done the past 2 years. It's opened up so many doors for me. 

I think most of me doesn't want to believe I made such bad decisions in my life to lead me right here. I love him so much and it hurts to realize that my marriage might be over soon. I'm definitely stronger now than I was before - but part of me is still a huge cry baby too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Are you telling HIM what you're telling us here? Sounds like it's time.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> Are you telling HIM what you're telling us here? Sounds like it's time.


Oh yeah...I've told him numerous times what I will do. He knows that is why I started volunteering. He knows it's why I bumped up to a paying position. I told him I needed this in case it came back down to him cheating again...I would walk. He definitely knows. 

I haven't mentioned this new girl yet - only because I am conflicted on if I should or not. I don't want to appear insecure. I don't want to sound paranoid when I don't have any proof of anything. Technically, he hasn't done anything yet. I can't go around accusing him of doing something he hasn't done yet. He's done everything he needs to do since the EA. He's been open with me, he - up until recently - rarely worked late and was home right after work, I understand he does have to work late sometimes. Those missions are sometimes such a pain and come in at odd hours. he doesn't get strange texts or calls, and he's not on his computer or phone all of the time. I have passwords to everything if I need them. 

I do remind him of our boundaries. I do remind him of the consequences. 

It's just hard to tell if this is going to be an issue or not and I guess time will tell. 

It's good to know that I'm not the only one seeing red flags though. I hate feeling like this and I didn't know if I was just over thinking it or not.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Can you have a friend follow him with a camera?


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You've clearly taken huge strides to strengthen yourself. I always told my children that there are absolutely no guarantees, that the best they can do is work to prejudice things in their favor - stay honest, work hard, be kind, get educated, embrace opportunity.

There really are no guarantees that things will go our way, and when they don't we can try our best to roll with the punches.

You can extract yourself if you need to. You're setting yourself up to be strong and independent. I know that it's hard to balance healthy skepticism with hope and trust. For these red flags, it sounds to me like your skepticism is well-placed and you shouldn't try to talk yourself out of it. You should follow up and look for evidence.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> Can you have a friend follow him with a camera?


I can't. He works on/near the flight line on base. Cameras are a no go there due to sensitive information. A phone isn't even allowed on the flight line. 

The best I can do is just keep my eyes and ears open. I need to make sure I'm paying attention to the things he's telling me....


annnd maybe bring them doughnuts one morning as a surprise for all of their hard work - as an excuse to check out the situation for myself. I will wait a while to start going all bat sh*t stalker though :grin2: 

I may not even have anything to worry about. I could just be looking way too hard into it. The past just plays a huge role in how I see things right now though.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So he ONLY goes to places that are on base?


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> So, I know I sound like a *delusional psycho*...annnd maybe I am. I hate feeling like *an insecure freak. *





staarz21 said:


> I could just be l*ooking way too hard into it.*





staarz21 said:


> I haven't mentioned this new girl yet - o*nly because I am conflicted *on if I should or not. I don't want to appear insecure..





staarz21 said:


> He ended up lying to me about about something pretty minor. *It wasn't a big deal *and we worked that part out.





staarz21 said:


> I did have a few outbursts where I said some nasty things to him. *That probably didn't make him feel safe with me.*
> 
> He had issues with porn to. Not the "I'm a prude my H watches porn" issues...the "my H watches porn instead of having sex with me - anywhere from 2-6 hours a day every single day" issue. *So, I wasn't being a safe person for him to talk with all of the time.* Most of the time I was there 100%, but once every 2-3 months...I couldn't deal.


I get the self blame of being paranoid, jumping to conclusions and being too harsh after one affair and reconciliation. 2 and an EA no way. 

Sorry, but whatever he did to generate this loyalty in you needs to be addressed with your therapist.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

staarz21 said:


> I can see why so many people have a hard time leaving. It's a familiar spot. My kids - He loves them so much. I feel almost selfish thinking about leaving. I know it all sounds so stupid.
> 
> I will leave if he does it again though. He knows this. My best friend is waiting back home with her door wide open to give me temporary living while I search for a house. I have planned it all out this time.


He loves his children... but NOT enough to resist cheating on and disrespecting their mother.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> So he ONLY goes to places that are on base?


He occasionally will go and get lunch off base, but for the most part - yeah. He's been really good at going straight to work and coming straight home. It takes him all of 10 mins to get to and from work. So, I would pick up pretty quickly if he went anywhere else.

On his days off, we usually spend time together as a family. He doesn't go out. He claims he prefers staying at home or going out with us.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I get the self blame of being paranoid, jumping to conclusions and being too harsh after one affair and reconciliation. 2 and an EA no way.
> 
> Sorry, but whatever he did to generate this loyalty in you needs to be addressed with your therapist.


I will definitely bring it up. I mean I know I love him. We're married and I figure I should at least try and make it work. I also feel like I owe it to my kids to try - though I am on my final try now. 

I know that sometimes one partner is selfish early on in life - and later realizes how stupid they were. My own father was one of these people, or so he tells me. He did stupid, selfish things and even abandoned my brother and myself. He left us with my abusive, raging alcoholic mother. He later (when I was about 17 years old) apologized to me and said he was just stupid then. He was 32 years old when I was born. Apparently, he didn't grow up until he was mid 40s. 

My FIL said the same thing. He cheated on his wife - and didn't stop all of that until he was mid 30s. My MIL said she also messed around on FIL. That they were just young and stupid. 

So, I don't know if I am just trying to hang on hoping he grows out of it (sounds like I'm talking about a toddler huh?) But at the same time, I don't want to tear myself down while he's out having a good time.


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## itbeme (May 2, 2015)

In military families this does appear more often, on both sides, either the deployed or the stateside spouse. I wonder though if your H has done any heavy lifting to help you feel somewhat secure in the marriage?. It is not up to you to "make things better" for him. Let him know you are uncomfortable and do not like the way he speaks of this co-worker and you are noticing the same pattern. There has not been enough time together to rebuild from the past to already go into another ego-boost or whatever. He, IMO should understand and work with you and to help you feel more secure, not less. Take care of yourself and know none of what has gone on is a reflection on you, do not blame yourself for his short comings, that is his character flaw.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

itbeme said:


> In military families this does appear more often, on both sides, either the deployed or the stateside spouse. I wonder though if your H has done any heavy lifting to help you feel somewhat secure in the marriage?. It is not up to you to "make things better" for him. Let him know you are uncomfortable and do not like the way he speaks of this co-worker and you are noticing the same pattern. There has not been enough time together to rebuild from the past to already go into another ego-boost or whatever. He, IMO should understand and work with you and to help you feel more secure, not less. Take care of yourself and know none of what has gone on is a reflection on you, do not blame yourself for his short comings, that is his character flaw.


Thank you. 

I think he tries in the best ways he knows how. He does tell me he loves me often, he kisses me, hugs me, tells me I look pretty, he is a cuddler - so we spend lots of time touching, holding hands, and just being together.

I think his words and his actions have issues working together though. Well, in the past they have. I am hoping he proves me wrong and I can come back on here and tell you guys what a crazy person I am! :grin2:


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

It's so easy to give advice to people in these situations. Leave! Don't let him treat you like that!

Hell, I've given that advice quite a few times. 

I sit here and I think over and over all of the little details - and I go back and read what I wrote - I'm amazed. I think many people when in the situation are amazed at how much they will actually put up with. Some people have that zero tolerance attitude. I should have been one of those people. I don't really regret my time with my H. I just wish he loved me like I love him. Sappy time over. :wink2:


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

After two affairs why do you let your husband come home and talk to you about another woman's physical appearance and the jokes they share together? He shouldn't be courting any female friendships especially not at work where they can hide their attractions to each other from you. He is obviously interested in her and is gushing about his new crush to you, his wife. Where are his boundaries? You won't have any proof yet because she just started working with him. It's certainly building up to an affair and regardless of whether or not she reciprocates, his behavior is enough to let you know he hasn't changed at all. 

When was the last time you liked a male so much in a platonic way that you couldn't stop from talking all about him to your husband? He isn't talking about her and her looks just because he thinks she is nice co-worker. His feelings towards her are beyond that.


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## itbeme (May 2, 2015)

I understand, BTDT. But can you talk to him? Let him know how you feel w/out him telling you it is just you making a mountain out of a mole hill. He needs to know YOU have feelings also. Ya'll need to be able to talk ,not argue, he needs to hear you out and be there for you. I wish I had a way with words like so many others on this site, I don't. Would love to make it better for you and feel that I can not. Stay strong and God Bless


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

staarz21 said:


> Most of the time I was there 100%, but once every 2-3 months...I couldn't deal.
> 
> So, I know I am to blame there for sure.


OMG, don't blame yourself! 

Look I know a great deal of men that just don't take the time OR lack the ability to understand their feelings and emotions. They go around interpreting most things they feel as an "instinct" as opposed to recognizing how things like guilt, shame, and fear of vulnerability can hijack their behaviors and cause havoc in an otherwise healthy environment. It actually takes a great deal of time to understand and deal with these things for a guy.

Your situation is more of that like your husband is a captain out at see in a storm, and you have to somewhat be his lighthouse so he does not smash everything into the rocks. Trying to get him to understand what ancient geologic event created the rocks in the first place might distract him from trying not to capsize. 

As for the lightbulb you use in your lighthouse to get his attention, light it up with shock and awe! Tell him the next time he thinks of flirting with another woman that you are going to start experimenting on him with electrosex! Perhaps you'll be gentle with kneading rhythms of acupuncture and rock his world, OR you might zap the crap out of him! 

Cheers, 
Badsanta

PS: My wife actually likes getting her back messaged with the TENS devices you can find on Amazon. So you can purchase one for that "purpose!"


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Cecezakat said:


> After two affairs why do you let your husband come home and talk to you about another woman's physical appearance and the jokes they share together? He shouldn't be courting any female friendships especially not at work where they can hide their attractions to each other from you. He is obviously interested in her and is gushing about his new crush to you, his wife. Where are his boundaries? You won't have any proof yet because she just started working with him. It's certainly building up to an affair and regardless of whether or not she reciprocates, his behavior is enough to let you know he hasn't changed at all.
> 
> When was the last time you liked a male so much in a platonic way that you couldn't stop from talking all about him to your husband? He isn't talking about her and her looks just because he thinks she is nice co-worker. His feelings towards her are beyond that.


You're right. That's what makes me on edge and if I'm honest, a little pissed off. I feel like if I go the route of telling him I'm uncomfortable with the way they are interacting so early on I will ruin my chance to see if he's actually changed, or if he's not learned anything at all. 

I expect him to keep playfulness to a bare minimal. The guys in the shop joke with one another and play pranks often. She now works there and would expect her to be included up to a certain point - depending on the pranks. 

I expect him to not inform me of her height/weight/whatever else she's already told him. I mean, that seems a bit personal to me. She is 19 years old by the way. I'm not even so much worried about her being so young. I think I used to be jealous of the other women because I thought they were better than me in some way. Now, I don't think that. I'm more worried about if he's going to step into that pile of crap again. 

I expect him to act like a SNCO (a supervisor to her) because that's what he is. He's recently gained another rank, which further solidifies this role. 

I expect him to remember his commitment to me, to remember that I've supported him through some pretty dark stuff, to remember that I am his wife and to respect me as such. I have always respected him as my H. I have never so much as thought of another man in a romantic way since meeting my H over 8 years ago. 

He's worked hard this year. I know he has. He made rank, he finished up his degree, and so far since being home for 10 months now has kept his nose clean. He even did well on the last deployment. There were a few hiccups, but none involved cheating and so I could work with him on that. 


I think I am more prepared this time though If he does do it - I really hope I'm wrong. Somehow I feel scared and okay at the same time. Sometimes, I wonder if I've already detached because I find myself not caring about certain things anymore. 

So, should I remind him of what I expect and that he can come to me if he feels anything starting? Will that make me look needy and jealous? He needs to stop by work tomorrow (day off) for an email he left there (they can only access at work via their ID cards). I am thinking about joining him and just telling him I am going so that we can visit a park directly after and let the boys play. 

Ugh I need to go to sleep. Thank you all for the advice tonight. It's helped me sort my thoughts so far.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Both your husband's parents were cheaters? He probably thinks that's what married people do (but I bet he wouldn't be nearly as tolerant if the situation were reversed as you've been with him). 

Did his lie after the last deployment concern a female he met while he was gone?

PS
If he's going to cheat, he's going to cheat. All the "reminding" in the world isn't going to stop him. He's obviously attracted to this girl. If she's receptive, eventually he may take the next step. I think you're going to have to wait. And it may take him awhile. That's not a fun place to be, I know.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You get the respect you demand, staarz. Just inform him in no uncertain terms that you do NOT want to hear about other women's bodies or likes or dislikes - not unless he's doing the same thing with his MALE friends. And if he tries to do it again, you will leave the room.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

badsanta said:


> OMG, don't blame yourself!
> 
> Look I know a great deal of men that just don't take the time OR lack the ability to understand their feelings and emotions. They go around interpreting most things they feel as an "instinct" as opposed to recognizing how things like guilt, shame, and fear of vulnerability can hijack their behaviors and cause havoc in an otherwise healthy environment. It actually takes a great deal of time to understand and deal with these things for a guy.
> 
> ...


You crack me up!

I think he does struggle with his emotions a lot. He's not really a talker and definitely avoids confrontation. So, if there is a problem in our marriage, I'm the one to talk about it. If he had a problem, no one would know. 

He was more closed off about sex than I was at first too. He never said anything about what he wanted. I, on the other hand, liked to talk about what we could try or how I liked certain things. He's opened up SO MUCH about that in the last 2 years though. He will tell me what he likes/doesn't like and we've even been trying some new stuff on his suggestion for a change. It's nice.

There was some sexual abuse in his past. Out of respect for him, I won't go into details. I don't know everything that happened, and I don't dare try and push him to talk about it. The abuse is confirmed by another incident with someone close. He is in therapy for several things, though this hasn't been brought up yet, according to him. I just don't think he's ready to deal with it...or if he will ever be. 

All in all, I can see the efforts he's made to better himself. I doesn't take away from the red flags I see now, though. So, even if he has done all of this good stuff - I won't stand for another strike in the cheating game.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> You get the respect you demand, staarz. Just inform him in no uncertain terms that you do NOT want to hear about other women's bodies or likes or dislikes - not unless he's doing the same thing with his MALE friends. And if he tries to do it again, you will leave the room.


You're right. I was afraid as coming off insecure again. I've been that way in the past. I'm not wanting to continue that behavior pattern. I think I will shut it down as soon as he mentions her again (and he will, unless he's reading this).

I definitely have come to realize that I can't control what he does. So, if he's going to do it - it's going to happen. It would seem harder to find out this time, but if he does - they always slip up eventually.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's not insecure to say 'you're being rude and I don't like it.'


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Openminded said:


> Both your husband's parents were cheaters? He probably thinks that's what married people do (but I bet he wouldn't be nearly as tolerant if the situation were reversed as you've been with him).
> 
> Did his lie after the last deployment concern a female he met while he was gone?
> 
> ...


No. The lie didn't have anything to do with another woman. It was something he was embarrassed about and didn't really want to discuss with me. He eventually opened up.

The part that does suck right now is waiting to see if he's going to resist. I can't be his babysitter and remind him that he's married. So, time will tell. I will continue on like I have been and see what happens I guess.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Exactly. You have to wait and see if he really listened to you. He's well aware of the consequences if he cheats. Hopefully, he'll do the right thing (but there certainly are enough red flags to be concerned about).


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sounds like your husband never matured that much. His risk/reward behavior is similar to that of an adolescence. Those affairs were rewarding, so he lack the impulse control and lack of future consequences to stop his destructive behavior from affecting the stability of his life.

When you mention his parents as his role models, makes a lot of sense.

Have you ever made him see a therapist?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Sounds like your husband never matured that much. His risk/reward behavior is similar to that of an adolescence. Those affairs were rewarding, so he lack the impulse control and lack of future consequences to stop his destructive behavior from affecting the stability of his life.
> 
> When you mention his parents as his role models, makes a lot of sense.
> 
> Have you ever made him see a therapist?


He has gone on his own. He has been going back to the Chaplin more though. He feels like it's more off the record. He doesn't want any of this showing up in his folder.

I completely agree with the reward/risk behavior too.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

staarz21 said:


> I will definitely bring it up. I mean I know I love him. We're married and I figure I should at least try and make it work. I also feel like I owe it to my kids to try - though I am on my final try now.


You can love someone and still leave them for YOUR own good. 




staarz21 said:


> I know that sometimes one partner is selfish early on in life - and later realizes how stupid they were. My own father was one of these people, or so he tells me. He did stupid, selfish things and even abandoned my brother and myself. He left us with my abusive, raging alcoholic mother. He later (when I was about 17 years old) apologized to me and said he was just stupid then. He was 32 years old when I was born. Apparently, he didn't grow up until he was mid 40s.
> 
> My FIL said the same thing. He cheated on his wife - and didn't stop all of that until he was mid 30s. My MIL said she also messed around on FIL. That they were just young and stupid.
> 
> So, I don't know if I am just trying to hang on hoping he grows out of it (sounds like I'm talking about a toddler huh?)


Sorry, this is classic minimization and blame shifting from some cheaters. I now understand your mindset so, thank you for your honesty. This is why you have to be careful concerning you kids. MIL and FIL had affairs and produced your cheating spouse. See how that works? No, it isn't a guarantee of behavior, but I bet he knew what was going on and it is now part of his moral fiber.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Your mom was an alcoholic? That explains a lot.

Time to start going to Alanon. That's where you'll get the best help.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> Your mom was an alcoholic? That explains a lot.
> 
> Time to start going to Alanon. That's where you'll get the best help.


Alanon? like AA meetings? I am sure there are some around. Why that perspective? I've not heard using it before. :smile2:


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

staarz21 said:


> Alanon? like AA meetings? I am sure there are some around. Why that perspective? I've not heard using it before. :smile2:


Al-Anon is for the families of alcoholics. Because the drinking SEVERELY affects how kids turn out; you develop all kinds of dysfunctional issues, you tend to subconsciously pick ANOTHER alcoholic to marry, and you then adjust who YOU are to deal with that alcoholic. 

I think you'll learn a LOT about yourself if you find a local chapter and start going.

Welcome to Al-Anon Family Groups


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## Blaine (Jul 23, 2015)

Hi staarz Sorry this is happening. I try to tell friends that if ur husband should cheat on you and is truely sorry and confesses and begs for forgiveness and you forgive them. You have just taught them that they CAN cheat on you. They may have to go through hell to get u back but it can be done. I think you have already been given advice as to what you should do and I wish you the best. BTW The Fat, b*tch exemption for cheating, what are the weights and requirements for those just in case I ever need to use it?


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

turnera said:


> Al-Anon is for the families of alcoholics. Because the drinking SEVERELY affects how kids turn out; you develop all kinds of dysfunctional issues, you tend to subconsciously pick ANOTHER alcoholic to marry, and you then adjust who YOU are to deal with that alcoholic.
> 
> I think you'll learn a LOT about yourself if you find a local chapter and start going.
> 
> Welcome to Al-Anon Family Groups


Oh wow. Thanks for this. I really had never heard anything about it. Truth be told, I am scared of what I might learn about myself. I've honestly been opposed to doing things such as this because I'm afraid I might lose my mind if I allowed all of those memories to come back. I guess it should face the music. I've already looked up meetings. I haven't decided if I'll go yet, but I'm still reading the sites and googling. Thank you for this.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Blaine said:


> Hi staarz Sorry this is happening. I try to tell friends that if ur husband should cheat on you and is truely sorry and confesses and begs for forgiveness and you forgive them. You have just taught them that they CAN cheat on you. They may have to go through hell to get u back but it can be done. I think you have already been given advice as to what you should do and I wish you the best. BTW The Fat, b*tch exemption for cheating, what are the weights and requirements for those just in case I ever need to use it?


Hi Blaine! (I know a Blaine from Louisiana - he's a really good friend of my best friend! - I hope this world isn't that small, I would be so embarrassed lol!) 

As far as the weights and requirements for the "fat b*tch" - in his world I guess that means 120 lbs of pure flirting. :laugh:

I think I did let him off easily the first time. The second time, not so much. I went nutty on him. I kicked him out some time back just because I was going crazy. I couldn't stand to look at him. I went through a period where I honestly thought I borderline hated him. 

He's generally a good man. For the past 2 years, he's done extremely well in proving himself to me. He never lies to me anymore (at least not that I have caught him - and I used to catch him A LOT), the triggers for him are way, way down. He's home when he's supposed to be, and his phone/computer are clean. He literally has done well in trying to turn himself around. 

I just get such anxiety when these small things pop up.

I did talk to him this evening. I asked him what his preventative measures are for avoiding a situation like before. He said he would keep his distance - keep it work related. When I told him he already has received personal information on her and I don't know as much about the other girl working there - it sends a weird message. He didn't even realize that conversation was personal with her. The guys at work all sit in the office and chit chat if nothing is going on. They were all sitting around in there when she mentioned her height and weight stuff (which to me sounds weird that she would say that, but she's 19 - who knows).

As far as him joking with her about her not know who he was, he didn't know that could be misinterpreted as flirting. I reminded him how young she was and sometimes it can seem that way (that's how he and I used to flirt) - and it seemed to click.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

staarz21 said:


> You're right. That's what makes me on edge and if I'm honest, a little pissed off. I feel like if I go the route of telling him I'm uncomfortable with the way they are interacting so early on I will ruin my chance to see if he's actually changed, or if he's not learned anything at all.
> 
> I expect him to keep playfulness to a bare minimal. The guys in the shop joke with one another and play pranks often. She now works there and would expect her to be included up to a certain point - depending on the pranks.
> 
> ...


I take it she is on his flight crew? Whoah! An airman and a SNCO? How unprofessional is that? How is he getting away with all this? He wouldn't be her supervisor, her supervisor would be a Staff or a Tech. He's at superintendent level and really shouldnt have much interaction with her at all.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He knows he's flirting -- or very close to it. He's not nearly as clueless about his actions as he wants you to think. 

As for her height and weight, someone (maybe him or maybe not) made a comment in some way about how she looks and so she volunteered that information. He's probably not the only male there who's focused on her. 

Maybe he's a lot more careful than he used to be since you kicked him out and he knows his marriage's at risk. Time will tell. But keep your eyes open. And don't always let him know you're watching. You want him to be faithful because he wants to be and not because he feels you're monitoring his every move (if he knows you are then he knows it's possible you'll miss a move eventually and he might think he can take the opportunity). 

Never get to the point that you feel a cheater won't cheat again (some don't but many do). I made that mistake. I should have gotten divorced when DD1 happened but I was so sure there would not be a DD2. I was wrong. Always be vigilant.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You are not being jealous or needy. He broke trust with you twice and doesn't get a free pass anymore or benefit of the doubt. He is trying to fool you that he is clueless about his attraction to her. Don't buy it. Maybe her weight and height came up somehow, but even if that is true why did he need to come home and tell you about that information? Cheaters are often so happy about the other person that they can't stop from talking about them. The fact that he kept coming home and telling you so many details tells you he does like her a lot.

Whenever you had a crush, didn't you always go tell your mom and friends every little detail? Please don't let him manipulate you into feeling guilty. He's attracted to this girl and is just trying to make you feel crazy for being suspicious. (What? that's flirting? no way, I had no idea people think of that as flirting....)

He knows what is going on and he loves the ego stroke he gets from his interactions with her. And him being her boss is even worse. It's the perfect set-up for her to show him lots of admiration and respect. If he gets the feeling from you that you don't admire or respect him then he'll just like her all the more. He doesn't really deserve a lot of respect, but I'm sure he doesn't feel that way. You could end up looking like his criticizing, disrespectful wife who doesn't appreciate his worth, while this 19 year-old worker appears so admiring and respectful to him. Then he'll start justifying his behavior with her and fall into the same pile as before.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> I take it she is on his flight crew? Whoah! An airman and a SNCO? How unprofessional is that? How is he getting away with all this? He wouldn't be her supervisor, her supervisor would be a Staff or a Tech. He's at superintendent level and really shouldnt have much interaction with her at all.


They do logistics...moving cargo to and from aircraft. I worry about his outlook on things. He thinks he can continue to joke with them in the same way and he just can't. Even if he doesn't mean to flirt, if another supervisor heard it and thought it was inappropriate, they can report it. I just don't want ANY misunderstandings - they happen and I would hate for him to get caught up in it, IF he's actually trying to stay on the straight and narrow.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

Openminded said:


> He knows he's flirting -- or very close to it. He's not nearly as clueless about his actions as he wants you to think.
> 
> As for her height and weight, someone (maybe him or maybe not) made a comment in some way about how she looks and so she volunteered that information. He's probably not the only male there who's focused on her.
> 
> ...


Yes this absolutely. I know not to let me guard down. It will take several years before I am able to build enough trust to where I don't stop and wonder every so often. 

I was conflicted on talking to him the other night for the exact reason you posted here (as well as looking needy and insecure). I want him to know better on his own, not because I remind him he's married. 

I will throw one thing out there - he is a terrible liar. If he lies to me, he WILL get caught eventually. He never can keep his story straight...ever. I used to catch him weeks/months later just because the story didn't match from the first one he told. I haven't caught him in a lie since he got home from this latest deployment 10 months ago - and that lie was so stupid. He was just embarrassed about something, so I couldn't even be mad at him - he didn't lie about anything that he did wrong either. It was simply an embarrassing situation. The last lie before that (that I can recall) was the EA on that deployment...which was 2 years ago. 

So, he has made strides. I still can't be blind to these red flags though. Like I said, hopefully he proves me wrong. I really hope he does.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I am a cautionary tale of what can happen when you don't continue to be vigilant (there were 30 long years in my marriage between DD1 and DD2). You can never again be complacent and think your marriage is safe. I did that (there won't be a DD3 in my case because I divorced him). You don't have to be ultra-paranoid obviously but now you know what he's capable of and at one time you didn't. Like all of us did, you felt he wouldn't ever cheat. We all learned the hard way we were wrong. Always be alert to red flags. That way you are less likely to be blindsided again. There may be nothing there. But there may be. It's a balancing act.


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