# Marriage counseling



## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

We are starting on our path of counseling. Any pointers would be helpful. It's with the pastor of a church, and he wants us to start separate and we are both in agreeance of that - as my husband says that it's not him and I that need it the counseling together. He says that its really just him that needs to be counseled, that I am doing everything correct and he really doesn't haven any complaints on me being as a wife. He says that he needs to be guided as how to be a better husband.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

So the one with alcohol and drug issues says the counseling is not for him? Why are you accepting hus nonsense? He’s into porn and substances but feels he doesn’t need help.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

You left 4 days ago. You’re ready to go back?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

The great thing about pastors is that they take anything no matter how bad and give you the standard “Stay together and work it out” line of garbage even when it is clear one partner is not partner material. Good luck with that. In my .02cent opinion you are completely wasting yet even more of your time.

I know you want hope…. but girl you need to open those eyes 🧐


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

If you’re dealing with drug and alcohol issues, then those need to be treated and corrected by medical doctors and actual western, evidence-based drug/alcohol treatment professionals.

when someone’s brain is toxified and chemically impaired, then communication and talking about feelings etc is just spitting in the wind and will be a complete waste of time and money.

Then once someone does get dried out, then you need actual secular, evidence-based counseling/therapy by an actual trained therapist and not a faith-based clergy who will tell you about God’s will and cite Bible passages and tell you to be more subservient and forgiving of bad character and bad behavior.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> So the one with alcohol and drug issues says the counseling is not for him? Why are you accepting hus nonsense? He’s into porn and substances but feels he doesn’t need help.


You mis read it. He said he is the one that needs it, not I.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> The great thing about pastors is that they take anything no matter how bad and give you the standard “Stay together and work it out” line of garbage even when it is clear one partner is not partner material. Good luck with that. In my .02cent opinion you are completely wasting yet even more of your time.
> 
> I know you want hope…. but girl you need to open those eyes 🧐


Not this guy. He counseled my neighbors and told them exactly where they were wrong at.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I'm not going to comment on your specific case. 

My response usually when one partner says "_I don't need to be there, my partner is the one with the issues"_ is to say "you still need to be there to hear what they are saying (and let me know if they are lying)". 

Usually, the "I don't need to be there" is a power play, a demand that the other one is labelled as the problem. 



oldshirt said:


> If you’re dealing with drug and alcohol issues, then those need to be treated and corrected by medical doctors and actual western, evidence-based drug/alcohol treatment professionals.


Yes, if that is the problem, then it needs a specialist.


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> You mis read it. He said he is the one that needs it, not I.


Maybe it wasn't clear, because I misread it the same way.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> If you’re dealing with drug and alcohol issues, then those need to be treated and corrected by medical doctors and actual western, evidence-based drug/alcohol treatment professionals.
> 
> when someone’s brain is toxified and chemically impaired, then communication and talking about feelings etc is just spitting in the wind and will be a complete waste of time and money.
> 
> Then once someone does get dried out, then you need actual secular, evidence-based counseling/therapy by an actual trained therapist and not a faith-based clergy who will tell you about God’s will and cite Bible passages and tell you to be more subservient and forgiving of bad character and bad behavior.


Not this guy. Yes, he will quote scripture but he will also tell somebody where they are in the wrong. I know this, because he does it during his sermons. He once had a whole sermon on how men want and expect submissive wives but don't give them in return what they need and deserve to have as a husband and it all starts with the husbands and that most men these days need to learn what it really means to love their wives as Christ loves the church. 

As far as the alcohol and drug issues, we have to start somewhere. We are going to start here.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Laurentium said:


> Maybe it wasn't clear, because I misread it the same way.


I will retype it to make it more clear


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Sorry guys, I'm dealing with work and normally post while on I'm the phone - so I apologize if things are unclear and may seem like I am babbling. We both really do want this to work. Last night, he stated that he keeps himself busy as a distraction from the things that upset him in the world - politics, work, and so forth and he doesn't want to bring that garbage in to the house so he brings it to the guys and he keeps himself busy with that. His exact words were 'I don't know how to fit you in appropriately when I get myself stretched'. He tried to spend time with me on Friday and it backfired. He did give me his undivided attention yesterday. He's not a bad guy. He just needs to figure out how to get his crap together.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

He's afraid that they are going to focus on his alcohol dependencies and not anything else. I don't disagree with him. They are there for a reason. He needs to get to the root of everything (the man has a lot of childhood trauma that he hasn't dealt with). What if he's not wrong for seeking counsel first?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

So the separation this past Friday lasted maybe 24 hours before he talked you back? No, I don’t think you actually do hear us as you say you do. Unless hearing means doing the exact opposite of what you hear. I would imagine they will tend to focus on his alcoholism — as they should — among other things. And hopefully they’ll also focus on your strong codependency. He doesn’t want a divorce so this could be a first step. But IMO it’s bs that the “evils” of the world like politics keep him from connecting with you.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Openminded said:


> So the separation this past Friday lasted maybe 24 hours before he talked you back? No, I don’t think you actually do hear us as you say you do. Unless hearing means doing the exact opposite of what you hear. I would imagine they will tend to focus on his alcoholism — as they should — among other things. And hopefully they’ll also focus on your strong codependency. He doesn’t want a divorce so this could be a first step. But IMO it’s bs that the “evils” of the world like politics keep him from connecting with you.


Never did I say that I went back. I said we are starting marriage counseling.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Sorry guys, I'm dealing with work and normally post while on I'm the phone - so I apologize if things are unclear and may seem like I am babbling. We both really do want this to work. Last night, he stated that he keeps himself busy as a distraction from the things that upset him in the world - politics, work, and so forth and he doesn't want to bring that garbage in to the house so he brings it to the guys and he keeps himself busy with that. His exact words were 'I don't know how to fit you in appropriately when I get myself stretched'. He tried to spend time with me on Friday and it backfired. He did give me his undivided attention yesterday. He's not a bad guy. He just needs to figure out how to get his crap together.


Hmm, I wish I could be hopeful for you, and it would be great if he really committed to changing, but he's grown very comfortable with you - he knows you'll never divorce him, and he has no interest in changing. He will go to counseling, he will say he's going to detox, but it's all designed to stall or to get you to come back.

Hopefully, we are all wrong here on TAM, we would want nothing more than for you to live a quality life with your husband. I hope the counselor is worthwhile, in that no matter what happens with your husband, it helps you see areas that you can change for yourself.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Hmm, I wish I could be hopeful for you, and it would be great if he really committed to changing, but he's grown very comfortable with you - he knows you'll never divorce him, and he has no interest in changing. He will go to counseling, he will say he's going to detox, but it's all designed to stall or to get you to come back.
> 
> Hopefully, we are all wrong here on TAM, we would want nothing more than for you to live a quality life with your husband. I hope the counselor is worthwhile, in that no matter what happens with your husband, it helps you see areas that you can change for yourself.


I think this is why I'm ok with doing it separately for the most part - give me insight on what I can change in myself.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Not this guy. Yes, he will quote scripture but he will also tell somebody where they are in the wrong. I know this, because he does it during his sermons. He once had a whole sermon on how men want and expect submissive wives but don't give them in return what they need and deserve to have as a husband and it all starts with the husbands and that most men these days need to learn what it really means to love their wives as Christ loves the church.
> 
> As far as the alcohol and drug issues, we have to start somewhere. We are going to start here.


Drug addicts and alcoholics have been told they are wrong and told to not drink and not take drugs their entire life.

they have been prayed for and quoted scriptures their entire life.

….yet here we are and yet there they are still drinking/drugging and causing problems.

it’s ok to address their spiritual needs and to encourage them to correct their moral and character flaws.

but until they are treated medically and have physiologically dried out, it will all be for not.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> Never did I say that I went back. I said we are starting marriage counseling.


You may not have said that you went back but you also didn’t say you were still separated — just that he was trying to spend time with you and as usual having trouble doing that. All of this will obviously not be resolved tomorrow — assuming that it can — so you will have to eventually decide how you’re going to live during that time.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Drug addicts and alcoholics have been told they are wrong and told to not drink and not take drugs their entire life.
> 
> they have been prayed for and quoted scriptures their entire life.
> 
> ...


This is something that I am currently learning from a forum for addicts. It gives the name wet brain a whole new meaning. I told him to go to detox and get that figured out and I will cover the bills until he gets home. At that time, if he decides that he wants to work on the marriage, then we will discuss it. But until then... I have the bills covered. I just want him to get help. That's what matters most, above all.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

@BecauseSheWeeps 

I've been to individual counseling and marriage counseling, and let me explain what the issue is: marriage counseling focuses on the relationship...the marriage...as "the client" (if you will) and strives to work on what is wrong with "the marriage". In this instance, it's not "the marriage" that has the issues! It's the individual! In individual counseling, the focus is on the individual as "the client", so that IC strives to work with what is wrong with "the individual." There can not be "a marriage" when one of the individuals is unbalanced and unhealthy. So the procedure would be for your husband to face himself, his past, and his drug and alcohol problems FIRST...and fix them for an extended period of time to demonstrate that it's a true, real change. THEN, after you've seen changed actions for a year or more...THEN you two would both be on healthy footing and maybe be in a position for marriage counseling and work on the relationship/marriage. 

Does this make sense?

If you do marriage counseling now, it would be like an adult and a child "working on their relationship" when the child isn't really ready or mature enough to even consent! Most respectfully, your husband really does need to face his problems first...and work on the marriage AFTER he has been able to demonstrate a change of heart for a consistent period of time.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> This is something that I am currently learning from a forum for addicts. It gives the name wet brain a whole new meaning. I told him to go to detox and get that figured out and I will cover the bills until he gets home. At that time, if he decides that he wants to work on the marriage, then we will discuss it. But until then... I have the bills covered. I just want him to get help. That's what matters most, above all.


Since you've been going back to church, there is a really good passage in the Bible that sort of reminds me of this situation with your husband.

John 5:6 -

_Do you want to be healed?” – Jesus said to the invalid. (Jesus’ question is directed to an invalid waiting next to a pool to be healed by a coming miracle.) There the desperate man stayed, believing that an angel would stir the waters and heal the first person that jumped into the pool._

Jesus asked the man first if he wanted to be healed, because even with God, _unless we want it_, we can't be healed. Why wouldn't someone want to be healed? Because that man who grew used to people taking him up to the water every day, would be forever changed. He would now be responsible for his own life. So, Jesus wanted the man to be aware that healing required his participation, not just Jesus' power.

So, you can want your husband to change, and even stand by him the entire time, but until he really wants (to be healed), nothing will change.

(For full context:  The Pool of Bethesda John 5:6 -
5 One man there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and realized that he had spent a long time in this condition, He asked him, “Do you want to get well?” 7“Sir,” the invalid replied, “I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am on my way, someone else goes in before me.”… )


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Affaircare said:


> @BecauseSheWeeps
> 
> I've been to individual counseling and marriage counseling, and let me explain what the issue is: marriage counseling focuses on the relationship...the marriage...as "the client" (if you will) and strives to work on what is wrong with "the marriage". In this instance, it's not "the marriage" that has the issues! It's the individual! In individual counseling, the focus is on the individual as "the client", so that IC strives to work with what is wrong with "the individual." There can not be "a marriage" when one of the individuals is unbalanced and unhealthy. So the procedure would be for your husband to face himself, his past, and his drug and alcohol problems FIRST...and fix them for an extended period of time to demonstrate that it's a true, real change. THEN, after you've seen changed actions for a year or more...THEN you two would both be on healthy footing and maybe be in a position for marriage counseling and work on the relationship/marriage.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you at all. That's why I figured, we could both just use the counseling and then meet in the middle at times. This is all something that we need to get worked out.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

*Deidre* said:


> Since you've been going back to church, there is a really good passage in the Bible that sort of reminds me of this situation with your husband.
> 
> John 5:6 -
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Can you share his good qualities and actionS?


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Can you share his good qualities and actionS?


He is quick to give the shirt off of his back for anybody that is in need. He's always trying to gather foods/goods to put together for donations for Thanksgiving/Christmas/Easter time for those that are in need. He fights for those that he cares for. He's always quick to lend a hand to anybody that needs help. He's been willing to support me financially since day 1 but I have a full time job and it's not needed. I was driving a very crappy car when we started seeing each other and after 2 years of him hounding me in to getting a better car - I finally caved. He payed for the down payment because I didn't want to spend the money. He takes care of anything maintenance wise on my car and hounds me if I don't feel that it needs to be fixed. All of the kids in our lives love him - when they are around - nothing else exists. The kids come first. He fights for the rights of Americans. He will protest at any given chance for the love of everybody. Not just one race. His love for God trumps it all. We can and will sit and talk about God all day. 

Things have just been so muddied up lately. I don't remember him drinking this much prior to Covid. Or even the first or so of Covid. But then work got slow. We were stuck in the house. Things were very limited.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

Always a good sign when both parties agree to counseling. Guys rarely do


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

SCDad01 said:


> Always a good sign when both parties agree to counseling. Guys rarely do


Thank you. The only reason why he said no the first time was because he says I don't need it, that I do everything that I can to be a good wife.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Counselling is a very good start, but you will get nowhere with alcohol. Maybe he will understand that.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

*


BecauseSheWeeps said:



You mis read it. He said he is the one that needs it, not I.

Click to expand...

*No one misread it - that's what you said in your initial post.

I've quoted it for you:
*



....as my husband says that it's not him and I that need it the counseling together.

Click to expand...

*It's a bit hard to decipher but it clearly says that your husband says it's NOT him. Only subsequently do you claim he's the one who says HE needs it and you don't.

Honestly? You have a better chance of shaking hands with Jesus than you do of your dual-addicted husband suddenly having a life epiphany just because he attends a couple counseling sessions with a priest. It's not going to cause him to suddenly become a sober choir boy for the rest of his life. Surely you know that, don't you?

The only 'change' you seem to need is to learn how to overcome your codependency to someone who continually ****s all over you. Sadly, you'll have to learn the hard way when it comes to alcoholics/drug addicts but good luck to you.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

It's been my experience in counseling that counselors pretty much have their hands tied if the addicted person doesn't address and seek help for the addiction first.

Hopefully, your husband will address HIS addiction before he tackles the marriage issues. I think it would put him in a better frame of mind when he gains the necessary tools to deal with it.


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## RebuildingMe (Aug 18, 2019)

Marriage counseling is a waste of time. Last week you were leaving. Invest the money into a mediator instead.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

He has to love himself before he can truly love others. Simple as that. With substance abuse a factor, before addressing marital issues he really needs.to get this resolved first....it will take a healthy dose of support from the backside and a genuine desire to quit. There are almost always underlying issues from the past that haunt all abusers, hence the self destructive behaviors. In a big sense he is right. He needs the counceling first before you guys can deal with your issues together.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I suggest you possibly find and attend alanon meetings to help understand what you face.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

TinyTbone said:


> I suggest you possibly find and attend alanon meetings to help understand what you face.


I've suggested this to the OP numerous times. It doesn't work unless the codependent partner of an addict can temporarily detach. It doesn't appear the OP is interested in Al-Anon. Ah, well ....


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

All the counselling in the world won't do **** until he's been through detox, and stayed sober for an extended time to let the fog clear from his brain.

You're in serious denial OP. 

Seeing a pastor rather than a professional who specifically deals with addicts shows just how big your denial is.


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

Prodigal said:


> It's been my experience in counseling that counselors pretty much have their hands tied if the addicted person doesn't address and seek help for the addiction first.
> 
> Hopefully, your husband will address HIS addiction before he tackles the marriage issues. I think it would put him in a better frame of mind when he gains the necessary tools to deal with it.


Thank you


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

frusdil said:


> All the counselling in the world won't do **** until he's been through detox, and stayed sober for an extended time to let the fog clear from his brain.
> 
> You're in serious denial OP.
> 
> Seeing a pastor rather than a professional who specifically deals with addicts shows just how big your denial is.


He's not going to go anyways because he knows that they are going to tell him to stop drinking and to man up. This is all fine. He's done lost his wife. I can only be my sweet loving self for so long. I'm either in the marriage or I'm not. Nothing about me is in denial. 

I'm not stupid. I walked away from my last marriage over the same garbage. I will walk away from this one too but can I atleast try to make it work first?


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> He's not going to go anyways because he knows that they are going to tell him to stop drinking and to man up. This is all fine. He's done lost his wife. I can only be my sweet loving self for so long. I'm either in the marriage or I'm not. Nothing about me is in denial.
> 
> I'm not stupid. I walked away from my last marriage over the same garbage. I will walk away from this one too but can I atleast try to make it work first?


Of course you can, but you're not doing that. Seeing anyone other than a counsellor who specialises in working with addiction is a complete waste of your and their time.


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

BecauseSheWeeps said:


> He's not going to go anyways because he knows that they are going to tell him to stop drinking and to man up. This is all fine. He's done lost his wife. I can only be my sweet loving self for so long. I'm either in the marriage or I'm not. Nothing about me is in denial.
> 
> I'm not stupid. I walked away from my last marriage over the same garbage. I will walk away from this one too but can I atleast try to make it work first?


You said you left and you’re already back saying he’s more wonderful than he is ****ty. Which is he? The drug addict who is a porn user that won’t buy you flowers or a wonderful husband who discusses God all day?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

Any update?


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## BecauseSheWeeps (10 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> Any update?


It's been a long few weeks and things are falling in to place. While he said no to counseling, we are communicating a whole lot better. He's been out of town for work for the past few weeks and he's making sure that I know that I'm missed. His drinking has been slowing down. Because he's not drinking as much, he's also going to bed earlier so he isn't as cranky. I think he completely quit watching porn. He's been coming to me and initiating everything. Thank you for asking! How are you doing?


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