# Fiance wants kids and I don't



## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

My girlfriend and I have been together for 2 1/2 years and engaged for one of those years. I am 38, previously married for 7 years and I have two daughters (11 and 9) from that marriage. My XW and I probably had the most amicable divorce in the history of man-kind. No cheating or fighting, we just married quite young and grew apart. We share custody of the kids. Initially, the kids lived with XW through the week and I had them on weekends and holidays, but last year XW decided to go back to school and so we swapped over.

Anyway, it's all good on the XW front. Little arguments on occasion (as to be expected), but no major issues. We've both moved on.

My fiance and I have a really good relationship. We met through a mutual friend and although she is 11 years younger than I am, it's never been an issue up to this point. We're both creative people. We enjoy the same types of food, music, TV...we're both similar in nature (both a little frustrating at times > ) We just hit it off right away and as corny as it sounds, I just "knew" very early on in our relationship that this was someone I could spend forever with. She gets on with my family, XW (despite a little bit of insecurity, for no reason) and my kids adore her.

Early on in the relationship, we talked about marriage and kids and all that (you have to when you are a D dad with kids, with a much younger gf) and I said that I wasn't very keen on having anymore kids. She wanted kids at some point, but said she said she wanted us more, and it never became an issue again. Until now.

In October of last year, and (through carelessness on both our parts) she ended up getting pregnant and suffering a miscarriage. Neither of us knew she was pregnant, we both discovered we were pregnant and that the pregnancy was no longer viable, on the same day. She was understandably quite upset, I was more a mixture of sad and relieved (which I do feel guilty about, btw). 

By Christmas everything seemed to be back on track (I don't dispute I may have been a little ignorant of her feelings, neither of us are very good at picking up on emotional cues) and a few weeks later I approached the topic of getting a vasectomy.

Since then she's been a little more withdrawn emotionally, but she wants sex all the time. Which im not complaining about. We have a good sex life, but she has started initiating it a lot more than she used to. Last week I finally got her to open up (I had to quite bluntly state the obvious) and she admitted that she loves my kids like her own, but she wants her own biological children as well. She said she knows I was not just relieved at the miscarriage and that she had started getting her hopes up that my being upset at losing a child meant that the idea wasn't totally out of the cards. I said that my being upset about losing a child that I never knew existed had little to do with whether I wanted to have kids or not, it was a reaction to what had happened. I felt upset for her more than myself. 

I won't lie... I am afraid that this might be a deal breaker for us. I'm terrified actually. 

I've talked to a few people about it and opinions have varied from "just give her what she wants" to "just keep talking to her"

The thing is...we have been talking. We're talking about it non-stop. The conversion isn't going anywhere though.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Oh and I should probably add that we are getting married in June


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## Miss Independent (Mar 24, 2014)

Talking won't change the fact that she wants kids and you don't. I'm sorry but you should let her go so she can find someone else and have kids. 

How can you get married in June when you're NOT on the same page when it comes to kids? 


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Now this might be how your girlfriend could see this:

"Yeah, I loved and respected my first wife so much, that I wanted to father her children. But you? You I don't want to father children with."


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## inarut (Feb 9, 2013)

This is huge and is a deal breaker. You either decide that you have a child with her or let her go. You have been there done that but she hasn't and it's not something someone who hasn't can just let go of. She could be an exception but it's not looking like that at the moment. You both have to be really honest with yourselves and each other and decide what you can and can't live with.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

spinsterdurga said:


> Talking won't change the fact that she wants kids and you don't. I'm sorry but you should let her go so she can find someone else and have kids.
> 
> How can you get married in June when you're NOT on the same page when it comes to kids?
> 
> ...


 @spinsterdurga There just isn't any way that would happen, speaking honestly. She would have to be the one to leave and I'm not so thrilled about that possibility either. Selfish as that may be.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Now this might be how your girlfriend could see this:
> 
> "Yeah, I loved and respected my first wife so much, that I wanted to father her children. But you? You I don't want to father children with."


 @MattMatt I hope that's not how she sees it. It's definitely not in any way true. I just... 5 years ago, maybe. With the XW it wasn't an issue because we both decided that 2 was enough. But the kids are getting older now and I'm just done with all the baby stuff.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I'm going to be to the point. 

Let her go. 

You either do or don't want kids with her. Sounds like you don't. Don't blame her for being biologically driven. She tried to be fine with just you both but she wants a product of you both. She wants to have YOUR babies. If you aren't on fire to have them with her, then let her go immediately so she has time to find another man on fire to have them with her.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

inarut said:


> This is huge and is a deal breaker. You either decide that you have a child with her or let her go. You have been there done that but she hasn't and it's not something someone who hasn't can just let go of. She could be an exception but it's not looking like that at the moment. You both have to be really honest with yourselves and each other and decide what you can and can't live with.


 @inarut This is basically what my family is saying. The thing is, it wasn't an issue until the miscarriage. She loves and treats my kids as if they are her own and it seemed enough.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Satya said:


> I'm going to be to the point.
> 
> Let her go.
> 
> You either do or don't want kids with her. Sounds like you don't. Don't blame her for being biologically driven. She tried to be fine with just you both but she wants a product of you both. She wants to have YOUR babies. If you aren't on fire to have them with her, then let her go immediately so she has time to find another man on fire to have them with her.


 @Satya No, I don't want anymore kids, but I don't want to lose her either. Giving her a baby isn't the worst thing in the world. I would love any child just the same. I just feel like creating a baby under these circumstances is probably not the wisest decision.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

SHE WILL RESENT YOU.. it's that simple.. 

I am speaking as a woman who wanted my own children.. this is a deal breaking issue...it's one you can't come half way on.. it's either You get what you want (and her dream DIES...while she is left to grieve what will never be)...or you give in -she is happy but then you are resentful... nobody wins.. and it's not fair to the child..

She is 27 yrs old... this will continue to play on her mind.. she may TRY to suppress it, bury it ..but it will keep coming back up....when this friend / that friend / a sister is pregnant, she will be crying inside.. feel cheated... it will eat at her...you won't have a happy wife on your hands. 

For some of us...there is no pain or longing as deep as becoming a Mother - or having this denied...

Wait till she is 35..and her clock is REALLY ticking...

If this is a deal breaker for you.. It would be best to have a vasectomy BEFORE the wedding.. so she feels the GRAVITY of what she is really signing up for ...also to grieve what will never be..


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Satya said:


> I'm going to be to the point.
> 
> Let her go.
> 
> You either do or don't want kids with her. Sounds like you don't. Don't blame her for being biologically driven. She tried to be fine with just you both but she wants a product of you both. She wants to have YOUR babies. If you aren't on fire to have them with her, then let her go immediately so she has time to find another man on fire to have them with her.


This x 1000


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Romango said:


> @MattMatt I hope that's not how she sees it. It's definitely not in any way true. I just... 5 years ago, maybe. With the XW it wasn't an issue because we both decided that 2 was enough. But the kids are getting older now and I'm just done with all the baby stuff.


That might be an undercurrent to how she sees it. She might not even be conscious of it, but...

Also, as you haven't had a vasectomy yet, this might make her insecure, too. (You would be keeping the baby making option open, but not for her.)

You want her to sacrifice her shot at motherhood. And that's not a big ask, that's a f**king *huge* ask!


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Wow. You don't want kids and you know she does but you also want to hold onto her on your terms.

Everything is about you. .... you've experienced the joy that is kids yet would deny her.

Incredibly selfish. 

If you love her at all and are certain you don't want more let her find someone who wants kids. 

You find a partner who has them and doesn't want more.

If you marry her she'll either accidentally get pregnant or simply grow more and more resentful that you have kids and she doesn't. 

And those kids she loves like her own? See if that continues as time goes by and she doesn't have her own.

She'd be wise to end this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> That might be an undercurrent to how she sees it. She might not even be conscious of it, but...
> 
> Also, have you had a vasectomy yet? No? So that might make her insecure, too.
> 
> You want her to sacrifice her shot at motherhood. And that's not a big ask, that's a f**king *huge* ask!


Yep, a sacrifice he doesn't have to make so he can have what makes him happy on his terms.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

SimplyAmorous said:


> SHE WILL RESENT YOU.. it's that simple..
> 
> I am speaking as a woman who wanted my own children.. this is a deal breaking issue...it's one you can't come half way on.. it's either You get what you want (and her dream DIES...while she is left to grieve what will never be)...or you give in -she is happy but then you are resentful... nobody wins.. and it's not fair to the child..
> 
> ...


 @SimplyAmorous I guess I never really thought about it like that. In a dream-crushing way. I understand it, don't get me wrong. My girls are everything, and life would be pretty empty without them. 

I guess what it comes down to is who's going to give, and I don't want her to resent anything. I would never resent her, so maybe that person, by default, is me. I don't resent the thought of having another kid, I just feel like my life is complete as it is. I've been through that and I thought I had moved out of it.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Romango said:


> @SimplyAmorous I guess I never really thought about it like that. In a dream-crushing way. I understand it, don't get me wrong. My girls are everything, and life would be pretty empty without them.
> 
> I guess what it comes down to is who's going to give, and I don't want her to resent anything. I would never resent her, so maybe that person, by default, is me. I don't resent the thought of having another kid, I just feel like my life is complete as it is. I've been through that and I thought I had moved out of it.


So why isn't she entitled to have her life as complete as yours is?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

lifeistooshort said:


> Wow. You don't want kids and you know she does but you also want to hold onto her on your terms.
> 
> Everything is about you. .... you've experienced the joy that is kids yet would deny her.
> 
> ...


 @lifeistooshort @MattMatt (I don't know how to do the multi-quote thing, so I am responding to all of your posts within this one.

Yeah, I know it's really selfish. I am a bit of a bastard really. I always did know there was a possibility that this issue would arise.

I actually think she has already been trying to get pregnant "accidentally." But I do wonder if she is still reacting to the loss of the baby? And whether in a few months/year time she heals and decides she's ok not having kids after all. 

If it comes down to her not having a child is the worst thing she can possibly imagine, then I think that we could re-evaluate. I can think of 50 other things that could be worse than having another baby. I just don't particularly agree with creating a baby under those circumstances


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

@MattMatt And yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think that she may be thinking that I just don't want to have a baby with her. She is quite insecure when it comes to my XW. She doesn't need to be, and she knows it's irrational, but she can't help it.


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I went through two divorces because I didn't want kids. They both thought I'd change my mind. Both were pissed when it didn't happen in the time they thought it should. Married my current wife with the Dr's reassurance she couldn't have kids. Surprise surprise surprise lol. Our little boy will be 5 soon and I got snipped shortly after he was born. Do this gal a favor and set her free. 

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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Romango said:


> @lifeistooshort @MattMatt (I don't know how to do the multi-quote thing, so I am responding to all of your posts within this one.
> 
> Yeah, I know it's really selfish. I am a bit of a bastard really. I always did know there was a possibility that this issue would arise.
> 
> ...


She may have thought she was ok until the miscarriage, but now she knows she wants kids. That is unlikely to change. Especially as time goes by and more and more of her friends and family become mothers.

As she gets older, her fertility will wane. It will take a dip at 35 and continue to decline. Medically, a woman pregnant at 35 is classified as a "geriatric pregnancy". Post 35 and again post 40, a woman's chances of having a baby with a genetic defect, having a complication during pregnancy and having complications during delivery, increase.

She needs time to meet someone, marry, spend a bit of couple time, try to conceive (which could take a year or more), give birth, recover, and maybe try to conceive again.

If you love this woman, either have a baby with her or let her go so she can meet someone who will.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Sbrown said:


> I went through two divorces because I didn't want kids. They both thought I'd change my mind. Both were pissed when it didn't happen in the time they thought it should. Married my current wife with the Dr's reassurance she couldn't have kids. Surprise surprise surprise lol. Our little boy will be 5 soon and I got snipped shortly after he was born. Do this gal a favor and set her free.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


 @Sbrown Surprise alright haha. 

I really don't want it to have to come to that. We're a really good team. I don't think I or my kids would forgive me for letting her go. 

The thing I really struggle with is that when the miscarriage happened, yeah there was some relief in there, but I was sad to. Yet, when I think of intentionally deciding to have another baby it's an entirely different story.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

This (and other reasons) is why I never dated guys who had kids, in the past. And all those men thought I was being rude. :x


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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

Romango said:


> @Sbrown Surprise alright haha.
> 
> I really don't want it to have to come to that. We're a really good team. I don't think I or my kids would forgive me for letting her go.
> 
> The thing I really struggle with is that when the miscarriage happened, yeah there was some relief in there, but I was sad to. Yet, when I think of intentionally deciding to have another baby it's an entirely different story.


Yep I totally understand. No way I could have made that choice to have a child. Having a child scared me more than anything in the world. 

I think you need to do some soul searching. If you're dead set against having another child then tell her this, let her go. Her and your children will be fine. If you can get over the scary part about having kids they can be pretty fun.

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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> This (and other reasons) is why I never dated guys who had kids, in the past. And all those men thought I was being rude. :x


 @*Deidre* Not all men who have kids don't want anymore kids. But I definitely think it's something that has to be thoroughly discussed before love and marriage really come into the equation. We did, and it's still backfired. So you really got to keep an option in mind for in the event that one or both of you change your mind. Someone's gotta give. We didn't do that.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Romango said:


> @*Deidre* Not all men who have kids don't want anymore kids. But I definitely think it's something that has to be thoroughly discussed before love and marriage really come into the equation. We did, and it's still backfired. So you really got to keep an option in mind for in the event that one or both of you change your mind. Someone's gotta give. We didn't do that.


Yes, that's true, but there were other reasons, too that I had. I just never really wanted to get into the whole mama drama thing, and a few of my friends date men with kids, and it's just an added thing I wouldn't want to deal with.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Yes, that's true, but there were other reasons, too that I had. I just never really wanted to get into the whole mama drama thing, and a few of my friends date men with kids, and it's just an added thing I wouldn't want to deal with.


 @*Deidre* About every divorced person I know has the mama drama thing. I thank my lucky stars that the XW and my fiance get on. It's very rare for that to happen.
@MJJEAN

"If you love this woman, either have a baby with her or let her go so she can meet someone who will."

It is becoming more and more obvious that the only way is for one of us to give in.

I had been hoping it was the miscarriage talking, but I think that just gave fire to what she was already feeling. I sure wish we had discovered this issue earlier.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

Romango said:


> *But I do wonder if she is still reacting to the loss of the baby? And whether in a few months/year time she heals and decides she's ok not having kids after all.
> *


Yes, she is reacting to the loss of the baby. No, she's not going to change her mind. This was probably an awakening for her, as to how much she really wants to have kids of her own.

She probably always thought you'd come around. This just brought it to a head for your relationship. It's better it happen now, than years later, and have D on the table, rather than just calling off an engagement

"Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed."-- A. Einstein


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Romango said:


> @*Deidre* About every divorced person I know has the mama drama thing. I thank my lucky stars that the XW and my fiance get on. It's very rare for that to happen.


Only divorced people who have kids. lol But, I rarely dated divorced men, as a whole...just want my first marriage to be someone else's first marriage, too. That's all.  And all the other ''firsts'' that come with it.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Satya said:


> I'm going to be to the point.
> 
> Let her go.
> 
> You either do or don't want kids with her. Sounds like you don't. Don't blame her for being biologically driven. She tried to be fine with just you both but she wants a product of you both. She wants to have YOUR babies. If you aren't on fire to have them with her, then let her go immediately so she has time to find another man on fire to have them with her.


Agreed.

She's likely hoping that you'll have a change of heart.

Set her free so that she can pursue a relationship w/ someone who wants children as much as she does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

To be fair she did say she wanted kids at some point, there's a chance the miscarriage just made her realize how much she wants her own kids.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Now this might be how your girlfriend could see this:
> 
> "Yeah, I loved and respected my first wife so much, that I wanted to father her children. But you? You I don't want to father children with."


^^Yep. 1000x this!!




Romango said:


> @inarut This is basically what my family is saying. The thing is, it wasn't an issue until the miscarriage. She loves and treats my kids as if they are her own and it seemed enough.


It's highly likely that because she loves you so much, she really really tried to be ok with it, but deep down she wasn't...she may not have even been consciously aware of it.

The miscarriage forced the issue, and confirmed for her that she wants children. Her desire for children will only get stronger, as she gets older and will be slammed home to her every time a friend gets pregnant and has a baby. It will kill her a little inside.

If you love her as much as you say you do, REALLY love her and can't live without her, how can you put her through that? Either let her go now, or have a child with her. Those are your only options, there is no compromise here.

You also need to realise how hard it is to find a woman who will take on you and your children from your first marriage, and truly love them like her own, AND the children love her back. Your fiance sounds like a very special woman.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Romango said:


> My girlfriend and I have been together for 2 1/2 years and engaged for one of those years. I am 38, previously married for 7 years and I have two daughters (11 and 9) from that marriage. My XW and I probably had the most amicable divorce in the history of man-kind. No cheating or fighting, we just married quite young and grew apart. We share custody of the kids. Initially, the kids lived with XW through the week and I had them on weekends and holidays, but last year XW decided to go back to school and so we swapped over.
> 
> Anyway, it's all good on the XW front. Little arguments on occasion (as to be expected), but no major issues. We've both moved on.
> 
> ...


Because of what I bolded, BOTH of you seemed a bit wishy-washy about such an important issue. 

I'm also sorry to say that there are a few subtle clues in your first (and subsequent) post(s)t that you're not as ready for marriage as you think you are.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

"Not very keen" sounds terribly like British understatement.

And a bit weak if you meant "Hell! No!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Do not marry her. Let her go and find a man who wants to have children. This will not go away and if you do get married and not have children with her she will be resentful and the marriage won't last. Don't deny her a chance to be a Mom to her own biological children. I would tell her not to marry you if she wants to have children. She might think she can change your mind, but she shouldn't count on that.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Kivlor said:


> Yes, she is reacting to the loss of the baby. No, she's not going to change her mind. This was probably an awakening for her, as to how much she really wants to have kids of her own.
> 
> She probably always thought you'd come around. This just brought it to a head for your relationship. It's better it happen now, than years later, and have D on the table, rather than just calling off an engagement
> 
> "Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. Invariably they are both disappointed."-- A. Einstein


 @Kivlor @MattMatt @GusPolinski @Vega

Yes, I admit that I should have been more clear about not wanting any more kids...that's my fault. I met this great girl and there was an instantaneous spark between us. I think at the time I didn't want to close the option off completely. Whether it was a deliberate deception on my part, or I was genuinely just leaning more towards no, but it wasn't for definite...I don't know. I feel pretty stink about it now in all honestly.

I honestly don't know what to do. We may not be married yet, but that's in title only. Me, her, the girls...we're family. I don't in any way want to bag my XW, but my connection with this girl is far stronger than any connection I had with XW.

I don't want to deny her anything, but I truly thought she was happy with our family unit.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

frusdil said:


> You also need to realise how hard it is to find a woman who will take on you and your children from your first marriage, and truly love them like her own, AND the children love her back. Your fiance sounds like a very special woman.


 @frusdil She's a lot better than I deserve, that's for sure. And yes, step parenting is not the easy. I have a deep appreciation for anybody who can take on someone else's children and love them like their own


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You should let her go. 

The relationship is exactly what you want and need but there are major needs that for her, are not being met. She will not be able to continue to meet your needs if you cannot meet her's. A 26 yo woman wants children, you could even say that she needs children. 

You knew that from the beginning, right? She was 24 yo when you met and at that age she could not decide to be childless. Could you have decided at 24 yo to be childless? Then it is not fair to expect her to be held to such a monumental life changing decision at such a young age. 

The miscarriage will loom large in your relationship - it is a really big deal to a woman. She lost a child and she is mourning the loss and will for a long time. You may not have adequately grieved with her because for you, the loss was a relief. 

Her strong maternal instincts have worked in your favor, she's been an excellent surrogate parent to your 2 children. For the length of your relationship though, she will be childless and a caretaker for the children of her husband and his ex. 

In a way, she may feel that you want the advantages of marriage to her, a substitute parent for your children, a companion, sex partner etc but none of the disadvantages for you, the children most woman her age want. I can't imagine giving so much and having a major need denied me. 

You are at incompatible stages in your lives and it is highly likely to end badly.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Romango said:


> @Kivlor @MattMatt @GusPolinski @Vega
> 
> Yes, I admit that I should have been more clear about not wanting any more kids...that's my fault. I met this great girl and there was an instantaneous spark between us. I think at the time I didn't want to close the option off completely. Whether it was a deliberate deception on my part, or I was genuinely just leaning more towards no, but it wasn't for definite...I don't know. I feel pretty stink about it now in all honestly.
> 
> ...


Kids thing aside for a moment... 

You call her a girl. She's great, etc. She may be younger than you, but she's no girl. And any "girl" can be great if she finds what fuels your affection and focuses on it, like being great with your kids. But a woman that captivates your soul, a woman you desire with all your being and am on FIRE for would be a lot more to you than a great girl. 

She's not the one for you.


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## Lilac23 (Jul 9, 2015)

Romango said:


> @Kivlor @MattMatt @GusPolinski @Vega
> 
> Yes, I admit that I should have been more clear about not wanting any more kids...that's my fault. I met this great girl and there was an instantaneous spark between us. I think at the time I didn't want to close the option off completely. Whether it was a deliberate deception on my part, or I was genuinely just leaning more towards no, but it wasn't for definite...I don't know. I feel pretty stink about it now in all honestly.
> 
> ...


Why don't you want more kids? I would guess that the miscarriage revealed to her that she does strongly want kids. That doesn't mean she isn't happy with your family unit but that she wants to make it greater. She wants her children to be brother and sister with yours and for you to be the father of her children. That would be strengthening the bond between you, not lessening it.


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## Lynn508 (Feb 16, 2016)

If she gives in you get to have a complete and fulfilled life and don't have to give up a thing, while she will always have a hole in her heart due to her sacrifice for you. If you let her go you both have a chance at finding what you want in someone else. Please either have a baby with her or let her go. Anything else is self-serving really.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

And this is a prime example of why I think big age differences are a terrible idea when one partner is in their 20's. There is almost always a huge baggage difference, and in this case OP is asking his fiance to give up what he experienced and treasured. He's got everything he wants: he got to get married, have kids, and now gets to fvck a younger woman; let's not pretend that's not what's going on.

Anyone who knows my situation knows that I have nothing against age differences (me: 41, hb: 60) but they don't typically work unless they come with comparable baggage. When I met hb I was 31 and divorced with two little kids and he was divorced with one older kid; we'd both experienced it and felt comfortable that neither of us wanted more, and we still feel that way. If we'd met when I was 24 and he was 43 and he informed me that he didn't want any more kids I'd like to think I would've been smart enough to know that wouldn't work but at 24 you really don't know what you want, particularly as you get to the point where you're getting too old.

You hooked up with a freaking 24 year old, and as Catherine pointed out you can't possible think that a 24 year old knows what she wants.

OP, would YOU have been happy hooking up with a woman 11 years your senior, at 24 years old, that already had two kids for you to help raise and didn't want more? Would you be ok never being a father?

You are taking her prime years and it's really not fair. You're the older one here, you are the one who should understand this. 

Maybe she's insecure where your ex wife is concerned because you shared the magic of bringing kids into the world with her and now she can't have that experience with you or anyone. It's not even that you don't want kids, you just don't want them with her.....that's how she's going to see it if she doesn't already.

Either have kids with her or cut things off.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Satya said:


> Kids thing aside for a moment...
> 
> You call her a girl. She's great, etc. She may be younger than you, but she's no girl. And any "girl" can be great if she finds what fuels your affection and focuses on it, like being great with your kids. But a woman that captivates your soul, a woman you desire with all your being and am on FIRE for would be a lot more to you than a great girl.
> 
> She's not the one for you.


 @Satya You're right and she is more than a great girl. She's much much more. It's not just that she is great with my kids. It's the little things...like how her eyes light up when she knows she's taken a great shot. It's how she wakes me up at 2am flicking pages in the book that she just can't wait until tomorrow to finish, how she makes me turn the car around half an hour into a drive because she left her camera on the kitchen table, how she manages to lose my car keys every time she drives my car, how she has the ability to say the most ridiculously dumb thing right after she's finished quoting Edison or Einstein.

It's been 2 1/2 years and those things still don't drive me around the bend. I love her to bits, believe me.


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## Illbehisfoolagain (May 7, 2012)

I am in the same boat with my boyfriend. I want a child of my own, he does not want any more kids. At one point I thought he had chagned his mind and I was over the moon happy! But then last time we talked I realized I had completely misunderstood what he was saying. He has an exgirlfriend from like 4 years ago that I know was one of his favorite women hes been with. I also know they broke up because she really wanted kids and he didnt. In our last discussion, I told him that I know thats why they broke up and so is that where we are headed too? He said that was a longer time ago, and things were different and that if this year goes really well for us, he will "give me a chance to change his mind". I feel this is just a copout and a way to buy more time before we split. I have been thinking about it a lot in the last couple months since our discussion and I have made the decision that I will end it with him if he is still against trying to have a child with me in a yearish time. I will be almost 35 then. I fully realize that the choices in my life I Have made have led me to being nearly 35 and childless. I know my chances of getting pregnant the first time at 35 are greatly diminished and I may have completely screwed myself out of the only thing in my whole life I am sure I Have wanted to be. The thought makes me sick and part of me thinks I should flat out tell him now to make a decision so I can start looking for a man who also wants kids, sooner than later.

My boyfriend also really loves how I am with his son, and he has told me every time we have had the talk, that I would make a wonderful mother. I know hes trying to be nice, but it really adds to my pain and frustration, and honestly does make me resent him just a little bit, which I hate.

As Richard reminded me with his comment below mine. If he doesnt want to father another child, half as much as I WANT it, I absolutely do not want to pressure him into it! I love and respect him very much, and do not want him to resent me or feel like I am trying to force him into anything. I am not, but I cant help but to have the need of having a child of my own. Never ever in my thoughts did I consider that some day I might actually meet a man that I love and he loves me too, but that he wouldnt want to have a child with me. I can barely wrap my head around it. In my mind it was always that if a man loved a woman, he would want to give her a baby if she wanted one.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
I think that in the end this is simple. She wants kids. You do not want kids. The reasons you want, and do not want those those things doesn't matter. 

No one should be pressured to have kids that they don't want. No one should be denied kids that they do want. No fault, no blame just two people who have different goals in life on a topic on which there is no compromise.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Lilac23 said:


> Why don't you want more kids? I would guess that the miscarriage revealed to her that she does strongly want kids. That doesn't mean she isn't happy with your family unit but that she wants to make it greater. She wants her children to be brother and sister with yours and for you to be the father of her children. That would be strengthening the bond between you, not lessening it.


 @Lilac23 I just feel like I've already been through that phase in my life, honestly. My kids are 11 and 9, so growing up. It's not any deep aversion to having anymore kids. I love my girls and being a dad.

To @Lynn508 @lifeistooshort @TiggyBlue

Have a baby or leave her seems like the overall consensus...and call me selfish, but I'm not leaving her. We have too much together to just throw it away.

When it comes down to it, and taking everyones opinions into consideration... she's going to be miserable if she doesn't have her own kids. I may not feel the need to have anymore children, but I wouldn't be miserable if we did.

That's what it comes down to it.


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## Illbehisfoolagain (May 7, 2012)

I think thats really awesome! I so, sincerely hope this is the same revelation my boyfriend comes to!


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

I think you need to let her go.

My husband and I both said we wanted kids before getting married. But neither one of us had any sense of urgency and finances were very bad for a long time so we didn't try. When I was in my early 40's we decided to adopt from the foster system instead of trying to have children. He's managed to feet drag that out to where I'm 50 now and he's 53 with health issues and I think it will never happen. I believe he never really wanted kids and just ran the clock out on me. I usually spend most of the week around mother's day crying. Even though I know it is my fault too for not being proactive while younger, when I think that I don't have children because of him and his problems, I literally feel hatred toward him. 

BTW, this is my second marriage. My first husband had 3 kids from his first marriage that we had custody of. I loved them like my own and remain close to two of them to this day, but they are NOT my own. It is simply not the same and we all know it.

If she realized she wants children now, trust me, it will only grow stronger. And if you marry her and do not have children, her resentment toward you someday will be out of this world. Just as you would have every right to resent her if she agreed to no kids then got pregnant on purpose... You are not wrong for not wanting more children, but I believe this is the type of difference that can be too big for "love" alone to overcome.

Also, keep in mind that "generally" Men are happy if they've got a decent home and income and a spouse they have fun with and get along with. If they are "having a good time" men tend to be content. Most women are not wired that way. Most women are wired to want "meaning" in their life. And there's not much more meaningful to many that raising children. Just "having fun" will leave a lot of women feeling very unfulfilled and empty.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Romango said:


> @inarut This is basically what my family is saying. The thing is, it wasn't an issue until the miscarriage. She loves and treats my kids as if they are her own and it seemed enough.


The miscarriage made her realize how important it was to her. I didn't know how important it was to me until it was too late either. I have a friend who never wanted kids, was single, had an accidental pregnancy around 48 - 50 when not even in a solid relationship, miscarried and lost the baby and was just heartbroken. She didn't even think she wanted children before then. Now she has a lot of regrets.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

WorkingWife said:


> The miscarriage made her realize how important it was to her. I didn't know how important it was to me until it was too late either. I have a friend who never wanted kids, was single, had an accidental pregnancy around 48 - 50 when not even in a solid relationship, miscarried and lost the baby and was just heartbroken. She didn't even think she wanted children before then. Now she has a lot of regrets.


 @WorkingWife This place is full of the saddest stories. The more this thread continues, the more I realize that I really have been selfish. I guess I really didn't see the full picture and how it will affect her, maybe not now, but definitely in the future. We should have talked this all out a lot sooner. I shouldn't have assumed that was happy with things the way they are. The wedding is definitely going to have to be cancelled until we can figure out where to from here. I honestly can't even imagine a future without her in it.

Everyone - thanks for your suggestions and advice. I will check back tomorrow and see if anyone has added anything else. I think my chest hurts enough for one day. Got a lot of thinking to do.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Romango said:


> @WorkingWife This place is full of the saddest stories. The more this thread continues, the more I realize that I really have been selfish. I guess I really didn't see the full picture and how it will affect her, maybe not now, but definitely in the future. We should have talked this all out a lot sooner. I shouldn't have assumed that was happy with things the way they are. The wedding is definitely going to have to be cancelled until we can figure out where to from here. I honestly can't even imagine a future without her in it.
> 
> Everyone - thanks for your suggestions and advice. I will check back tomorrow and see if anyone has added anything else. I think my chest hurts enough for one day. Got a lot of thinking to do.


Good luck to you. I don't think you've been *selfish *so much as neither of you probably *realized *how important this could become. I'm sure it's very hard for both of you. Better to realize now than 20 years from now.

FWIW, I don't think "not wanting more children" is selfish. You're just in very different places in your lives. :-(


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I disagree with some posters that say have a kid with her OR let her go. 

I say, just let her go. 

I say this because you obviously don't want a child with her. Having a child because you feel sorry for her is no better for either of you than her acquiescing to not having children with you. Make sense? 

If you aren't ON FIRE for having kids with her, she will find out, or, you will eventually act resentful when you're having to support another little person and that little voice in your head asks why you did it. You were considering a vasectomy for goodness sake. Stand by what YOU want and tell her adamantly. 

Don't give her a child out of pity. It will hurt her. No woman wants to feel she's emotionally alone in having children. No woman I know wants to feel like a pity case when it comes down to her biological purpose in the world. A great want-to-be father has a STRONG DESIRE to make a child with HIS WOMAN. She wants kids with a man that wants them with HER. You are not that man.

I'm honestly not trying to be harsh. I am happy to see your last response to my last post. 

The last thing I'll offer here is: It's entirely possible to love her and for her to be the wrong woman for you.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Romango, she is hoping you will change your mind and agree to have a baby. You have been there and done that, she never had that. 
The freedom you are now experiencing with older kids, is something she does not understand because she never knew the younger years. 

You have all those experiences of crying babies, no sleep, sick kids, no life when they were young. You are not willing to endure that again. If she stays with you she will never get to have experiences.

Nor will she ever experience the joy of holding her newborn, sweet milky similes or someone looking at you as if you are everything. She will never get those beautiful, precious moments.

Do you love her enough to give her a child? So, that you can share those new joys together.

If not let her go. Tell her in a way that she understands that you don't want anymore kids. That you are not going to change your mind. Then, the ball is in her court.


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## Kivlor (Oct 27, 2015)

I do think Satya is right here. OP, if you don't have a burning desire to have kids with your fiance, then it would be a terrible idea to have children with her. The odds are that you will resent her for it, and it will show in your relationship as time progresses. 

I think something that needs to be pointed out here is not that you are being selfish, and that selfishness is wrong, but that your values and goals may not be in line with hers. And if that's the case, it would be immoral to expect her to give up her dreams for your comfort. As it would be wrong to expect you to give up your dreams and goals for her comfort. We all make compromises in our relationships, we all settle to some degree. Curtains, drapes, the city you live in, hobbies, these are things you compromise on; Children aren't...

Maybe you two aren't a good match.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

My sense is that the relationship was never good for a long-term commitment from your fiancé viewpoint. She is reaching a critical point in her maturity and no doubt realizes that she is making a huge mistake. The relationship you think you have is not what you really have. You need to look past your needs and that of your children. Why should a young woman be happy to join a family of a man, 2 kids and an ex? Why would she give up the joys of building a family with an unencumbered man who loves her and wants to have children with her? Someone who cares about her should ask her that question. 

You failed to consider and anticipate the needs of your partner in growing a shared life of mutual happiness. You talk about her in a surprisingly frivolous and diminishing way, - she is a girl, keys lost, saying stupid things etc. Does not sound like she is someone you respect or find inherently valuable. She is valuable for what she does for you and your children and the ex. Just imagine if she were not there to care for your children, arrange their lives, deal with the ex, enrich their lives, have a relationship with you. How manageable she makes all of your lives, besides losing you car keys. What does she get in return, your love, respect and reciprocation of her giving? 

You completely missed the problem with expecting a 24 yo woman to be able to decide to be childless because you already had children; you did not question why she is so giving with your children other than that it makes your life easier. I can see why you want to marry her so badly, and why you may not want to let her know what a gem she is. You will never find a woman who gets on well with the ex, is an excellent co-parent to your children, gives up her chance to be a mother just for you and tries to make you happy. I really don't think you have found her, she can't exist. 

At some point you will experience the negative effects of the damage that has already been done if you don't let her go now.


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

Catherine602 said:


> My sense is that the relationship was never good for a long-term commitment from your fiancé viewpoint. She is reaching a critical point in her maturity and no doubt realizes that she is making a huge mistake. The relationship you think you have is not what you really have. You need to look past your needs and that of your children. Why should a young woman be happy to join a family of a man, 2 kids and an ex? Why would she give up the joys of building a family with an unencumbered man who loves her and wants to have children with her? Someone who cares about her should ask her that question.
> 
> You failed to consider and anticipate the needs of your partner in growing a shared life of mutual happiness. You talk about her in a surprisingly frivolous and diminishing way, - she is a girl, keys lost, saying stupid things etc. Does not sound like she is someone you respect or find inherently valuable.
> 
> ...


Wow @Catherine602; That makes so much sense. I wish you had been my friend and I'd had you to talk to before I married my first husband who already had 3 kids and a psycho ex... (Not that I necessarily would have listened.)


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Not only will she resent you it very well may be in a passive aggressive way-- which will make you miserable even as she loves you. I cant believe she would agree to marry you knowing you do not want children. 

ive never been someone to label an issue 'deal-breaker'-- but is this not the very definition of deal-breaker?


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> This (and other reasons) is why I never dated guys who had kids, in the past. And all those men thought I was being rude. :x


As a divorced father of two, this is why I do not date women who dont have kids. I am 44 but get looks from 25-30 year olds--not bragging it is actually kinda awkward as it is usually at work and eventually they learn my age-- and no point of pursuing that no matter how attractive. It is presumed they want to build a family and I do not want to have more children. 

I know how hard it is for OP and fiance but she is absolutely going to regret this.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

In my 20's, I wouldn't have listened to me either. It is so hard to imagine what it is like to be married and have children. It is even more difficult to judge the intensions of a potential partner if you have too little experience of life. 

A man with 3 children is looking for someone who will blend into his life - take care of him and his children when they are with him. Any young woman with no kids of her own needs to understand that she is getting a package deal. She has to adjust to a ready made family and fit her needs and wants around them in place of building a life with a free man.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

As I look back i think I made a mistake marrying someone who'd already been married and had a kid when I hadn't. I never really felt special to him.....always got the been there done that feeling from him when I experienced something new. But at least he was open to children and I got my two.

You have a ton of baggage for a young woman to deal with that you conveniently don't have to deal with, and she won't even have the chance to build her own family. 

What exactly do you offer her as compared to what you get? 

The fact that you assumed she'd be happy to just fit into your life says a lot. 

Marrying you is a huge mistake for her and she's going to realize it eventually, but you may married and settled when she does. It's going to be that much more difficult at that point to split up your lives.

If you're not all in with kids at least have a vasectomy now and tell her you did it, and if she still wants to get married enjoy your time with her before she gets po'd and resentful. 

It will happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

MRR said:


> As a divorced father of two, this is why I do not date women who dont have kids. I am 44 but get looks from 25-30 year olds--not bragging it is actually kinda awkward as it is usually at work and eventually they learn my age-- and no point of pursuing that no matter how attractive. It is presumed they want to build a family and I do not want to have more children.
> 
> I know how hard it is for OP and fiance but she is absolutely going to regret this.


That's a good idea, tbh. The OP is a divorced father and is with a woman who has never been married and has never had kids, and she wants kids...not an equal match. He'd be better to be with someone who has kids, like he does.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Illbehisfoolagain said:


> I am in the same boat with my boyfriend. I want a child of my own, he does not want any more kids. At one point I thought he had chagned his mind and I was over the moon happy! But then last time we talked I realized I had completely misunderstood what he was saying. He has an exgirlfriend from like 4 years ago that I know was one of his favorite women hes been with. I also know they broke up because she really wanted kids and he didnt. In our last discussion, I told him that I know thats why they broke up and so is that where we are headed too? He said that was a longer time ago, and things were different and that if this year goes really well for us, he will "give me a chance to change his mind". I feel this is just a copout and a way to buy more time before we split. I have been thinking about it a lot in the last couple months since our discussion and I have made the decision that I will end it with him if he is still against trying to have a child with me in a yearish time. I will be almost 35 then. I fully realize that the choices in my life I Have made have led me to being nearly 35 and childless. I know my chances of getting pregnant the first time at 35 are greatly diminished and I may have completely screwed myself out of the only thing in my whole life I am sure I Have wanted to be. The thought makes me sick and part of me thinks I should flat out tell him now to make a decision so I can start looking for a man who also wants kids, sooner than later.
> 
> My boyfriend also really loves how I am with his son, and he has told me every time we have had the talk, that I would make a wonderful mother. I know hes trying to be nice, but it really adds to my pain and frustration, and honestly does make me resent him just a little bit, which I hate.
> 
> As Richard reminded me with his comment below mine. If he doesnt want to father another child, half as much as I WANT it, I absolutely do not want to pressure him into it! I love and respect him very much, and do not want him to resent me or feel like I am trying to force him into anything. I am not, but I cant help but to have the need of having a child of my own. Never ever in my thoughts did I consider that some day I might actually meet a man that I love and he loves me too, but that he wouldnt want to have a child with me. I can barely wrap my head around it. In my mind it was always that if a man loved a woman, he would want to give her a baby if she wanted one.


so this is a thread all it's own but what are you doing with this guy? I actually have nothing against dead end relationships as long as both parties are aware of the situation. Sounds like you are not being honest with yourself. And your bf sure knows how to control you -- 'maybe ill give you a chance to talk me into it'....wha...?


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

*Deidre* said:


> That's a good idea, tbh. The OP is a divorced father and is with a woman who has never been married and has never had kids, and she wants kids...not an equal match. He'd be better to be with someone who has kids, like he does.


yeah I dont think I would have gotten past the part where I am supposed to ask her out. Or...if I really knew nothing about her, on a date situation...I dont think there would be a 2nd one. 

I see these girls -- I work in an office with over 3k people-- and just know not to pursue that. Id feel guilty just dating this 24 year old I think.


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Get the vasectomy. She'll either accept it or not.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

I think some posters are being kinda harsh on the OP...in his post about the lost keys etc. I don't think he meant to sound condescending (and it did OP), I think he was trying to say how after all the time they've been together he still finds those things adorable in her. If it were anyone else it would drive him crazy but because it's her it doesn't. He just worded it *really* badly, lol.

OP, I'm a stepmum, a childless stepmum. I'm lucky to have a wonderful husband who lives to make me happy, and understands my need for my own, biological child, even though he already has one of his own. Time is not on our side, as we didn't meet until I was 38. Mother's Day for me is nothing but heartache. I HATE it. This Mothers Day, you'll need to be very sensitive to your fiance's needs...and very gentle with her because it will be extremely painful for her - I can't stress that enough.

I was so happy to read your post that you're not completely closed to the idea of children with her...she sounds like a wonderful woman, and you two have created a wonderful family with your children. It can only get better with a sibling (or two) for your children..THEN you'll be complete, and so will your fiance


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
My father never wanted me. Don't do that to a child. Don't have a kid that you don't actively want.


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

Did the doctors say if she was even able to have children? 

I think you need to just sit her down, and explain to her honestly how you feel and that you do not want any more children( the sooner the better). Let her decide if she wants to stay or go, please do not string this young woman along for your own selfish reasons, if you are not wanting to fulfill her need to have a child. 

If you do not want children, regardless of how much you love her, it would not be fair for you to have a child you are not sure you want. Communication will be key to this whole situation, there might not be a need to put the wedding off if you discuss this with her sooner rather than later.

Good luck!


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

MRR said:


> yeah I dont think I would have gotten past the part where I am supposed to ask her out. Or...if I really knew nothing about her, on a date situation...I dont think there would be a 2nd one.
> 
> I see these girls -- I work in an office with over 3k people-- and just know not to pursue that. Id feel guilty just dating this 24 year old I think.


Well, at this point...the OP needs to make a choice. Doesn't matter how they both arrived here, but it's how they go forward now. My opinion, if she wants kids and he knows this, he should set her free to find someone to do that with, orrrrr...he could keep an open mind and have kids with her. That's really the only two options. But, it's unlikely that her biological desire will disappear, no matter how much they both click.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

frusdil said:


> *I think some posters are being kinda harsh on the OP...in his post about the lost keys etc. I don't think he meant to sound condescending (and it did OP), I think he was trying to say how after all the time they've been together he still finds those things adorable in her. If it were anyone else it would drive him crazy but because it's her it doesn't. He just worded it *really* badly, lol.
> *
> OP, I'm a stepmum, a childless stepmum. I'm lucky to have a wonderful husband who lives to make me happy, and understands my need for my own, biological child, even though he already has one of his own. Time is not on our side, as we didn't meet until I was 38. Mother's Day for me is nothing but heartache. I HATE it. This Mothers Day, you'll need to be very sensitive to your fiance's needs...and very gentle with her because it will be extremely painful for her - I can't stress that enough.
> 
> I was so happy to read your post that you're not completely closed to the idea of children with her...she sounds like a wonderful woman, and you two have created a wonderful family with your children. It can only get better with a sibling (or two) for your children..THEN you'll be complete, and so will your fiance


 @frusdil *Thank you (you are so kind) and yes you are right. I meant exactly that in my earlier post. *

Nah I'm not closed off to the idea. I'm just very happy with things the way they are. I don't feel the "need" like she does, but that doesn't mean I'm not completely understanding (now, thanks you all you guys) of her need to have her own, our own, children. I thought it was totally off the books, but the more I am starting to see things from her side, and see what she will miss out on, I'm starting to feel a lot less certain about my position.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

*Deidre* said:


> Well, at this point...the OP needs to make a choice. Doesn't matter how they both arrived here, but it's how they go forward now. My opinion, if she wants kids and he knows this, he should set her free to find someone to do that with, orrrrr...he could keep an open mind and have kids with her. That's really the only two options. But, it's unlikely that her biological desire will disappear, no matter how much they both click.


 @*Deidre* I'm not completely closed off to the idea. It's more that I've been happier these past 2 1/2 years than I ever have been (I mean on a personal level, not on a parenting one). I have been through this before and while im not completely opposed to the idea, I really don't want the dynamic/happiness in our relationship to change. I don't want to lose that closeness, the appetite that we have for each other. We've been in a really good place.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

richardsharpe said:


> Good evening
> My father never wanted me. Don't do that to a child. Don't have a kid that you don't actively want.


 @richardsharpe That's awful. My children were unplanned, the both of them. I would argue that that most children are. I was. It doesn't mean you should love your children any less. I wouldn't change my girls for the world


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

MRR said:


> yeah I dont think I would have gotten past the part where I am supposed to ask her out. Or...if I really knew nothing about her, on a date situation...I dont think there would be a 2nd one.
> 
> I see these girls -- I work in an office with over 3k people-- and just know not to pursue that. Id feel guilty just dating this 24 year old I think.


 @MRR It was a little strange at first (XW is the same age as me), but I liked her immediately. I don't necessarily think 11 years age gap is too big, it depends on the individuals.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

Romango said:


> @MRR It was a little strange at first (XW is the same age as me), but I liked her immediately. I don't necessarily think 11 years age gap is too big, it depends on the individuals.


it is not, literally, the age difference. That should be obvious. But the life experiences you have and in this case she has NOT had (which almost all women have some interest in).


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

@MRR That is true.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

QUOTE=Lostme;15011498D*Did the doctors say if she was even able to have children? *

I think you need to just sit her down, and explain to her honestly how you feel and that you do not want any more children( the sooner the better). Let her decide if she wants to stay or go, please do not string this young woman along for your own selfish reasons, if you are not wanting to fulfill her need to have a child. 

If you do not want children, regardless of how much you love her, it would not be fair for you to have a child you are not sure you want. Communication will be key to this whole situation, there might not be a need to put the wedding off if you discuss this with her sooner rather than later.

Good luck![/QUOTE]

@Lostme The doctor just said it was spontaneous. They said she would have been about 6 weeks pregnant, so it was very early. She had a lot of blood tests and things taken, but they were all fine.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

Do the decent thing OP and set her free. The possibility that you will find yourself divorced for a second time is already very high but add in this mismatch and it is a disaster in the making.

There is no greater love than that for your own children, there is simply no comparison to having step kids. I am both a mum and have step kids that I love. Sorry but the love for my own kids can never be compared to my step kids. You are being very selfish by taking potential motherhood away from this woman.

The other consideration is that while blending families is difficult enough, adding in half siblings rarely turns out well. Unless you two are always on the same page and are very selfless people there will always be the chance of alienating your kids from your first marriage. Do you want to take the chance of losing your bio kids in the long term just to have more kids when deep down it is not what you want?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I can tell you really love your woman, I'm sure this will have a happy ending for you both just communicate your feelings, I learned that one the hard way.


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## threelittlestars (Feb 18, 2016)

I have a story to tell. Its the story of how i came to live. 

My father 36 years old had had a vasectomy at thirty. He had my brother, and met my mom who had a daughter. Both the same age. "Hers and mine" dynamic. 

My father told her early on. NO MORE KIDS. my mom nodded and said okay...they loved each other. They were happy with the unit, but my mom was not. She wanted the family to be complete. She wanted me. 

My dad was dead set against it. First of all they botched his first surgery and the scar tissue was unreasonably bad. He had nightmares about it. He never wanted to go through the surgery again, never mind about wanting kids. He had closed that book a long time ago. But he LOVED my mom and saw how sad she was. 

So you know what? He got a reversal and said.... Okay we can try. The doctors did not think they would conceive me, because it was so so messed up down there. 

But one month later my mom was pregnant.... And i over heard my dad say to my mom when i was 22 after i gave birth to my son he told her, she is the best thing you ever made me do. I know for a fact my dad NEVER once regretted me and i completed the family more than he ever thought. 

Sir, i should never have been if my dad had not been bubbied into trying for me. And you know what? Im the one that is going to take care of them when they are old! My sister is a meth head and my brother is messed up and heartless regardless of our great upbringing. So...he is darn lucky he chose to have me. Im gonna to take care of them in their old age because they were great parents. 


On the matter of you feeling your family is complete you are wrong, No matter how much your kids love her they are not hers. She can't take the place of their mother in anything but their lives. You are being unfair, and as you agreed (selfish) but you obviously are reasonably conflicted with your stance or you would not be here. 

You won't leave her? Okay, tell her you will have a baby... there simply is NO other option that is fair and respectful of her wants in life. 

Think about when your wife is old. You are dead cause lets face it you are like a decade older....your kids have moved on and don't feel they should watch out for your dear childless life. She will be so alone. I worked at assisted living, nothing sadder than a person who never had children. man or woman. They were the loneliest but nicest people because they wanted to be surrounded by people. why? Because they should be surrounded by the kids and grand kids. 

Please make a choice soon...dont drag a wedding on unless you are going to try for a baby on the honeymoon.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Romango said:


> @*Deidre* I'm not completely closed off to the idea. It's more that I've been happier these past 2 1/2 years than I ever have been (I mean on a personal level, not on a parenting one). I have been through this before and while im not completely opposed to the idea, I really don't want the dynamic/happiness in our relationship to change. I don't want to lose that closeness, the appetite that we have for each other. We've been in a really good place.


I understand, and hope you both find a good place with it all. I know for myself, I would like to have a family, biologically...with my fiance, someday. So, I understand her sentiments. And true love never seeks to get its own way, always remember that...it seeks for the best way.  Best wishes.


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## richardsharpe (Jul 8, 2014)

Good evening
Many parents love their unplanned children. I didn't realize that my father wanted nothing to do with my sister and I until we were mostly grown up. I just thought he was really busy at work. Still, it was pretty miserable when I finally put the pieces together. 

I guess what I'm saying to the OP is to only have children if you really will be able to love them. Don't do it just to make your wife happy. There are three people to consider, you, your wife AND the future child.






Romango said:


> @richardsharpe That's awful. My children were unplanned, the both of them. I would argue that that most children are. I was. It doesn't mean you should love your children any less. I wouldn't change my girls for the world


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## Peaf (Feb 8, 2016)

I don't think you're being selfish, I think you're being realistic. I think that a lot of women have a tendency to go along to get along. So we agree to stuff: "I don't want a relationship", "I don't want to get married", "I don't want kids" and think that were gonna change your mind! I have a lot of friends who have done this. I've done it myself. It's extremely unfair to agree to be ok with something and then want to change the rules halfway through the game. 

How do you think your girls would recieve a new baby? They are also approaching the teen years which (in my experience) can be very tough. VERY tough. You could very possibly be dealing with teen angst and terrible twos all at once. Yikes! 

All the best to you....


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Romango said:


> @*Deidre* I'm not completely closed off to the idea. It's more that I've been happier these past 2 1/2 years than I ever have been (I mean on a personal level, not on a parenting one). I have been through this before and while im not completely opposed to the idea, I really don't want the dynamic/happiness in our relationship to change. I don't want to lose that closeness, the appetite that we have for each other. We've been in a really good place.


Unfortunately, the dynamic and happiness in your relationship has already changed but you don't recognize it yet. It changed when your fiancée transitioned from her early to middle 20's and she felt the natural biologic imperative to have a baby with a man who wants her to be the mother of his children. There is nothing that you could have done to stop it. You know what that's like you've been there. It changed when her baby died. Again, not your fault. Something has already come between you, the asynchrony of your lives. 

I doubt that you will end the relationship, you are getting everything you want right now. You may even agree to have a child with her but there I think your satisfaction will end. Children do change the dynamic of relationships. You and your children will no longer be center stage in her life. 

If you read studies on successful marriages, happiness and longevity depends on shared goals, values and the mutual exchange of satisfactions. You don't share her need for children so it will be a source of conflict. You can't mourn for the death of her child, it was a relief and did not touch you the way it did her. You don't want to be a father of young children again. 

It will be hell if you don't want it. You cannot enter this stage with her because you are past that. I don't know if she is getting as much as she is giving now that her needs have changed. She may reconsider that balance now. She is the dream of every D father but, I am not sure she is getting her dream.


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Honestly OP, the 2 of you are not compatible. It's really as simple as that. You have different wants and goals, which don't have a way of compromising. 

Please do not marry her unless you have a strong desire to have a child with her, just as she has a strong desire to have a child. She told you before that she wanted children eventually, so I don't understand why this is surprising? You should have let her go a long time ago after she told you that. The 2 of you are just in different places in life. There is nothing wrong with either of you, in what you want, but they just don't mix together. It's unfortunate, as I can see that you love her, but the compatibility is not there.


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## MRR (Sep 14, 2015)

dollars to donuts they marry anyway and 'deal with it later' and he ends up giving in because he cant break it off. 

just sayin


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## RedRidingHood (Jan 31, 2015)

I have to agree with the others that you should set her free. I have quite a few younger gfs. Those that are "family-inclined" look for good men/fathers like yourself to be the provider for their children. 

I am friends with a couple that has been married 10 years. It's their second marriage. He had kids with his first wife but had a vasectomy. She never did. Every time I see them, all she talks about is how he is going to get the reversal so they can try. He's been stalling for years and when she questions him about it, he pulls out his wallet and buys her very expensive things. She would make a great mother but I think he's content having her be stepmom a couple of times a year. I don't think she has "accepted" it as she has been telling me about this for over 7 years now. You can hear her pain when she talks about it. 

OP, you mentioned your FI's insecurity with your ex. Part of me wonders if b/c you have such a cordial relationship with her, your FI isn't jealous. Judging by my gfs that age, I bet part of her is wanting more attention from you and the most natural way to get it would be to have your child. 

If you do decide to stay with her, please get the vasectomy. You wouldn't have considered it if you wanted more kids.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

So Romango, any developments?


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Satya said:


> So Romango, any developments?


 @Satya It's been a hard week this week. A lot of talking and opening up about things we probably should have a long time ago. 

We both admitted that we kind of skated around the kids issue and she agrees with all the posts saying that I never outright told her that the kids thing was never gonna happen (yeah, I showed her the thread). And I kind of admitted that when we first got together I was sitting on the fence about having kids and so she took that to mean that there's something wrong with her why I don't want a family with her which is pretty ridiculous. It's about having two kids that are growing up and just being happy with our family unit as it is. We just started our own business together a few months ago too, and the timing isn't right and by time that changed I would be even older than I am now, and the kids even more grown up. Would we even want to change the dynamics in our relationship at that point?

The truth is, and I can't even explain it very well to her, is that as much as I love my girls and wouldn't change them for the world, children change relationships and not always in good ways. My relationship with the XW just slowly went down hill after the girls were born. We started out in a really passionate, loving relationship and we parted as friends. I don't know if I could go through that again, I don't even want to chance it. I love the bones of my lady in a way that I've never felt before. 

It all just blew up really. Not that she really gets angry or argues back she just makes her point and goes quiet.

I think she's convinced that I'm leaving her and I've convinced myself she's leaving me. She's pretty much said that she never forgive me if I take the girls away from her.

Excuse the long winded pity party


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

threelittlestars said:


> I have a story to tell. Its the story of how i came to live.
> 
> My father 36 years old had had a vasectomy at thirty. He had my brother, and met my mom who had a daughter. Both the same age. "Hers and mine" dynamic.
> 
> ...


 @threelittlestars My girls are everything to me too, and if it ended up that my gf and I had a child together that child would be loved just as much. I appreciate you sharing your story, you have good parents and you are a credit to them. My gf got a little emotional reading your story too.
@RedRidingHood I thought that my gf would just grow to accept things as they are too, but I was wrong in thinking it. But I would be lying if I said that I didn't think that is exactly what would have happened here too. 
@MRR I don't think that now the flood gates have been opened that dealing with it later is going to be an option. I know it's something that has to be worked out, but you're probably right. Especially if the miscarriage hadn't happened.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

@Romango, having a child doesn't have to make a hot, passionate, relationship into a friendship. The trick is to keep focus on the relationship. To make time to be lovers, every day. 

I've been married for 13 years, together for 16. We have 3 kids, 3 dogs, a cat, a tortoise, and a parrot along with all the usual other adult responsibilities. Our relationship has remained as passionate as it was when we met, in some ways it's even more intense, because we make us a priority.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Romango said:


> @Satya It's been a hard week this week. A lot of talking and opening up about things we probably should have a long time ago.
> 
> We both admitted that we kind of skated around the kids issue and she agrees with all the posts saying that I never outright told her that the kids thing was never gonna happen (yeah, I showed her the thread). And I kind of admitted that when we first got together I was sitting on the fence about having kids and so she took that to mean that there's something wrong with her why I don't want a family with her which is pretty ridiculous. It's about having two kids that are growing up and just being happy with our family unit as it is. We just started our own business together a few months ago too, and the timing isn't right and by time that changed I would be even older than I am now, and the kids even more grown up. Would we even want to change the dynamics in our relationship at that point?
> 
> ...


If you love her, and you have a good thing...why not have at least one child together? Especially since she is so great with your kids. You may lose a really great love...


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It's not "our little family unit"..... it's YOUR family unit that you want her to fold into. 

Now she's going to pay for the fact that you and your ex drifted apart.

Not fair..... this is exactly what I mean about baggage difference with a much younger partner in their 20's. She's too young to understand what she's going to give up by accepting no kids of her own and how she's going to feel about that as the years go by. 

This is all about you. .... she's taken on your kids but gets pretty much nothing out of it

Think about it like that. .... she's sacrificed for you but you're not willing to do the same for her.

Please do the honorable thing and let her go, unless you really think you can get on board with more kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Illbehisfoolagain (May 7, 2012)

Earlier it sounded like you were for sure warming up to the idea of having a child with her. Now it sounds like you are back to being set against it, which is fine, and its good that you two really talked it out. She may very well be preparing to leave you. I know this very same big talk is going to happen again very soon for me and my guy, and I am mentally preparing myself now to the fact that I will leave him if he knows he is going to be dead set against having another child. Like someone said earlier in the thread, its very possible to love someone more than you have loved anyone else, and for that someone to still not be right for you, or something like that.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Romango said:


> @Satya It's been a hard week this week. A lot of talking and opening up about things we probably should have a long time ago.
> 
> We both admitted that we kind of skated around the kids issue and she agrees with all the posts saying that I never outright told her that the kids thing was never gonna happen (yeah, I showed her the thread). And I kind of admitted that when we first got together I was sitting on the fence about having kids and so she took that to mean that there's something wrong with her why I don't want a family with her which is pretty ridiculous. It's about having two kids that are growing up and just being happy with our family unit as it is. We just started our own business together a few months ago too, and the timing isn't right and by time that changed I would be even older than I am now, and the kids even more grown up. Would we even want to change the dynamics in our relationship at that point?
> 
> ...


Sounds like she is going to stay with you on your terms. When she nears 30 and is childless, then 35, then 40 and she is still with you, she may feel the weight of her decision. 

She is very attached to your children and she invest a great deal of time in them. But she needs to remember that if you D, your children are unlikely invite her to their weddings or visit her with their grandchildren. They will remain loyal to you. She will be on her own. If she has children of her own, she will always be their mother.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

TiggyBlue said:


> To be fair she did say she wanted kids at some point, there's a chance the miscarriage just made her realize how much she wants her own kids.


This made me remember how I felt after my first miscarriage. Prior to the miscarriage I thought I couldn't have children, and after it all I wanted was to have children....and I made sure Mr. IMFAR and I "practiced" often. (We ended up with 4 healthy children and 3 miscarriages.)

You're probably right about her reasons for initiating sex more often now. If you don't want any more children, you are doing her a disservice by keeping her in a relationship with you one more day. Let her go, so she can find someone to have a family with, since that is what she wants.

However, since you love your own children, and don't regret having them, consider that you will also love any children that you and your fiance/future wife make together.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

Illbehisfoolagain said:


> Earlier it sounded like you were for sure warming up to the idea of having a child with her. Now it sounds like you are back to being set against it, which is fine, and its good that you two really talked it out. She may very well be preparing to leave you. I know this very same big talk is going to happen again very soon for me and my guy, and I am mentally preparing myself now to the fact that I will leave him if he knows he is going to be dead set against having another child. Like someone said earlier in the thread, its very possible to love someone more than you have loved anyone else, and for that someone to still not be right for you, or something like that.


 @Illbehisfoolagain

I'm not closed to the idea. But now she thinks that I will be resentful of her for "forcing" the issue. I wouldn't ever resent her for anything. Just because my need is not as strong as hers doesn't mean I would love her or the child any less. I probably shouldn't have let her read the thread. 

Good luck to you as well and I hope it works out for you.


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

IMFarAboveRubies said:


> This made me remember how I felt after my first miscarriage. Prior to the miscarriage I thought I couldn't have children, and after it all I wanted was to have children....and I made sure Mr. IMFAR and I "practiced" often. (We ended up with 4 healthy children and 3 miscarriages.)
> 
> You're probably right about her reasons for initiating sex more often now. If you don't want any more children, you are doing her a disservice by keeping her in a relationship with you one more day. Let her go, so she can find someone to have a family with, since that is what she wants.
> 
> However, since you love your own children, and don't regret having them, consider that you will also love any children that you and your fiance/future wife make together.


 @IMFarAboveRubies This sounds very familiar to me honestly. I think we've been doing a lot of "practicing," or at the very least she has been trying to "persuade" me to her line of thinking. 

I'm not against having a child with her, I feel like I need to clarify that, and it's not because I don't think she would make a great mother, because she would. It's just that I feel already complete with things how they are. But I have really come to understand how she is feeling, and if the situation were reversed I think I wouldn't want my chance of being a father taken out of my hands.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

It's a good thing she read this thread. You've both learned from it and can take into account the points of view and experiences of others while you decide how you're going to go forward. Marriage is, ideally, a permanent state. If you're going to get married, best to do it knowing exactly what you're getting into!

If you don't mind, I'll add my story. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible. Lord knows, I could write a book!

My mother was severely disabled and risked much to have her own children. She wanted a huge family of 12, but nearly died carrying and giving birth to my siblings. So, she had to content herself with "adopting" neighbor kids who had working parents or runaways, etc. When she died, the funeral home had to open extra sections to accommodate the then adult people and their families that she helped raise and gave so much of herself to.

I thought my mom was awesome and I am not easily impressed, even by parents. I had to help care for the house and my siblings as my mom physically couldn't and dad worked monster hours. By the time I was a teen, I knew I didn't want kids. I'd helped raise so many, I was done!

While ill and on birth control pills, I was put on antibiotics. The antibiotics I was on reduced the effectiveness of the Pill and no one told me. I didn't know to use a backup method of birth control while on the antibiotics and ended up pregnant. I couldn't bring myself to abort, so I had my DD. 

I also married her father, even though I didn't love him, and made the biggest mistake of my life. The marriage was a disaster, including infidelity and physical abuse among a host of other issues. During the marriage, I got pregnant using condoms and had DD2. 

I passed up on two wonderful men because they wanted children and I did not want any more kids. They both, within a year, found new partners, married, and had kids.

Then I met my DH. I still didn't want more kids, but he said he'd always figured he'd have just one child, hopefully a boy. I realized I wanted him more than I didn't want any more kids. I mean, I loved the kids I had, fiercely, and what's one more, really? So, we just stopped using birth control and I got pregnant with our son. Don't regret it for a minute! He's a great kid and I love him just a fiercely.

Since the girls were older when DS was born, having a 3rd child was easier than I expected because I had help. Whether I wanted it or not! He was their baby the minute I brought him home. I had to practically drive the girls away with a cattle prod just to hold him! If he cried and I couldn't calm him, they'd demand their turn to try. Whoever could calm him when he cried got favorite sister bragging rights. Competitive sibling soothing!


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## Romango (Feb 20, 2016)

MJJEAN said:


> It's a good thing she read this thread. You've both learned from it and can take into account the points of view and experiences of others while you decide how you're going to go forward. Marriage is, ideally, a permanent state. If you're going to get married, best to do it knowing exactly what you're getting into!
> 
> If you don't mind, I'll add my story. I'll try to keep it as brief as possible. Lord knows, I could write a book!
> 
> ...


 @MJJEAN Thank you MJJEAN, I feel surprisingly uplifted after reading this. It's definitely the case that the more I think about it the more I'm coming around to the idea. My gf wants her own kids, but she feels that unless I want kids with her as much as she wants them that I am going to be resentful of her.


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## Sansa (Mar 4, 2016)

It is a deal breaker. You've had your kids so you will never wonder what it's like to be a father and to have your own biological children. She, on the other hand, will always have regrets and always grieve for the children she never had.

Honestly, it will be worse for her to give up having children than it would be for you to relent and agree to have a baby with her. You will almost certainly love your new child so much that you will wonder why you were ever reluctant.

I'm not saying that's a reason to agree and there may be parts of you that will regret, and maybe those parts of you will end up resenting her and the marriage will end, but you'll still love your child.

But if she marries you and agrees to remain childless, she'll resent you. She might even hate you. At the very least, she'll have some very bitter regrets at the end of her life.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I predict you will be a new father if you stay with this woman. 

If you don' t want kids get clipped now. If she leaves . then she leaves


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## Tortdog (May 2, 2016)

I don't think that the previous poster was suggesting this but getting clipped and continuing the relationship would be a huge mistake - a slap in the face. 

Since you are not yet committed you can agree to disagree and break up. But if you stay, then the two of you need to come to a situation in which you "enthusiastically agree" to move forward down the chosen path.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Romango said:


> Oh and I should probably add that we are getting married in June


 I am afraid that this is a deal breaker. She may tell you that she wants you more now, but as time passes her desire for children will not go away. TO be honest, why have you stayed together this long and planned the wedding with this situation unresolved? I am afraid that if you are not going to allow her to have her own baby(which is actually pretty selfish) then what future is there?I think she is hoping that you will change you mind.


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