# Next steps after the talk...



## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

I've read a bunch of the threads on here and figured I'd finally share my story. Full disclosure, in an effort to be all inclusive, this is a long one.

We're currently in our 40's and been together going on 30 years and married for over 20. We were typically a 2-3x per week couple until after our 2 kids were born. That's when things slowed down, eventually settling on 3-4x per month. Sex to me is not about the ultimate release but rather the connection we make together.

At my behest, I suggested we switch birth control. No more depo shot, maybe the hormones are messing with her. Still the same. A year later, at her suggestion, I get snipped. Nothing changed.

She discovered vibrators (with my full support) and that really energized our sex life for a short while but within a few months we were back to the same routine although its now much better than anything before for both of us!

We had that difficult discussion again about the slowdown. The main reasons she felt we slowed up were based on her stressful life and too much on her mind. 

I'm not one to let a problem go unsolved, so with that helpful information, I went all out on "fixing things". Every month I took things off her plate. Dinner, dishes, laundry, house maintenance, kids and on and on.... I stopped questioning how much she works and took an active interest in her conversations about her job, school board etc. I worked hard on not always providing answers but just being there to listen. 

Although it resulted in a happier wife, sexual frequency did not increase. After a couple years, I expressed my concern again and she gave the same reasons so I continued to find ways to make her life pleasant: flowers for no reason, dropping off a Starbucks to work when I was in the area, reworking my schedule so I could pick up the kids daily, etc. No change.At some point, I share with her how frustrating it is for me to be rejected 4 or 5x before she "caves".I always back off is she says no and don't try to persuade her or talk her into it. In a bit of frustration, I suggest she take control. I will stop bugging her for sex but whenever she wants it, she'll get my 100%!

A few more years go past and we have this great relationship overall but I'm getting more and more frustrated, rejected etc. by the lack of frequency. We have "the talk" over and over again and she promises to keep me front of mind which works for a month or two and then we fall back. BTW, she always says how much she enjoys it when we do which is confusing to me (I mean if its "really good" wouldn't you want to experience that more?)

Result? Nothing ever changes long term. The pattern is the same: after her monthly period we have sex, sometimes twice that week. Then again once the next week. Third week is hit or miss as is 4th week. When she starts her period, its hands off and no intimacy for 2 weeks.

We have the same conversation every year or so, every year. At some point in the talk, she'll cry over letting me down and I feel even worse for bringing it up. On a regular basis, my stomach is in knots, I can't sleep (end up on couch after she falls asleep and sneak back in before she wakes up), and I'm getting more irritable.

Well now its been around 15 years of me not being able to fix it. So I do a lot of self reflection. I looked back on everything I tried. I realized it all fell into 3 categories: de-stress her life, get better at sex, and explore whether I'm a freak for wanting sex more often.

I have since given up on the idea that if I helped more, she'd want me more since it never came to fruition. Now I help more because as a husband, I should ... I feel better about this too - not expecting anything in return (although secretly hoping she will someday jump my bones after doing the dishes).

So I jump into being better in bed. Testosterone pills, penis pump, new toys,, reading books and trolling forums for tips on being a better lover. Nothing seems to increase frequency but those few times per month her post-sex glow is radiant!

I research on whether desiring sex 2-3x per week makes me a pervert. I masturbate more, less or not at all. Start new businesses, hobbies and distractions. At my wits end, I take herbal pills to drop my libido (my doctor told me to stop when he found out after a few months). To those wondering, they didn't do much anyway but the doc was concerned about the ingredients.

And that gets us to today. We had another talk this morning. I say from the outset that I don't want her to try and respond but just listen. I explain it all and layout everything I've tried. I admit when we tried things that didn't work. And I ask her to think about it, really think about it and let me know what answers she comes up with.

If she comes back with the same lines about stress and sex not being front of mind? Well, I guess I accomplished nothing and am right back to where I started.

If she only wants sex 1-2x per month? I'd rather know that than think I'm doing something wrong. I wont be frustrated and stop trying to fix a non-existant problem. I definitely don't want /need her to fake it for me. I'd rather not have sex at all than pity sex. I just need to work on ways to feel that special connection outside sex.


I'm sure there is plenty I missed but if you made it this far, I'd love to hear your comments and suggestions:
Did I screw this up for the past decade and a half? Is this something else I can try? Am I doing the right thing? Were you in a similar situation and how'd it work out?

Thanks!

NN


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

No i do not think you screwed up, can i ask you, have you both sat down and take the 5 language of love test to see what each other's language are. I suspect that her's are less about physical touch and more actions and deeds...i think about the fact that you are both speaking to each other but also pass each other.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

NASCARNick said:


> Result? Nothing ever changes long term. The pattern is the same: after her monthly period we have sex, sometimes twice that week. Then again once the next week. Third week is hit or miss as is 4th week. When she starts her period, its hands off and no intimacy for 2 weeks.


Wow, sounds exactly like my wife. In the end we went 6 weeks without her showing me the slightest attention and rejected every advance during that time.

Good luck!


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

How have you been together for 30 years but only in your 40s?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you ever just stopped doing something that's important to her, or only limiting it to once or twice a month?

Then when she asks why you stopped, simply tell her that you're too stressed out at work, or you have too much on your mind, or you simply just don't feel like it.

After all, if it's not important to you, it shouldn't matter, right? Or is that not the standard by which you are measuring how you each contribute to the marriage?

She doesn't get to have it both ways.

While some people may see this as retribution, I see it is taking direct action to not only show her what it's like to be rejected, but to also help reduce your overall resentment that is created by you continuing to provide her comfort in the midst of your own discomfort.

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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

farsidejunky said:


> Have you ever just stopped doing something that's important to her, or only limiting it to once or twice a month?
> 
> Then when she asks why you stopped, simply tell her that you're too stressed out at work, or you have too much on your mind, or you simply just don't feel like it.
> 
> ...


^^^^THIS!^^^^


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

farsidejunky said:


> Have you ever just stopped doing something that's important to her, or only limiting it to once or twice a month?
> 
> Then when she asks why you stopped, simply tell her that you're too stressed out at work, or you have too much on your mind, or you simply just don't feel like it.
> 
> ...


I agree. Although a lot of people on here would say it's passive aggressive.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

A lot of women's priorities and certainly focus change when they have children. Not all, but most that I've ever known. Sex just is further down her list of priorities now. Her focus is elsewhere. Now, whether she's lost some attraction, after 30 years, I would certainly think so, but she is still having sex and says she enjoys it, so no way to know. 

Has being a father not changed your focus at all? Has that become a fulfilling "connection" for you or not? 

It's interesting that the vibrator livened things up for awhile. 

You know, it's normal for people's sex drives to drop over time. Sometimes they do bounce back and forth even. Stress is certainly a huge factor. Certainly having children is the first big drop if there's going to be one, and there usually is. It's not just the hormones and what it does to the body but, as you're strenuously trying to avoid, it's often the resentment that comes with the mother having more work to do 24/7. You've done all you can do about that. And it's also about having someone tugging on you 24/7, the kids for sure, and I would say you want to strenuously also avoid being part of that camp.

I just hope you realize that women and men are just different sexually, too. Some women would just opt for no sex if they weren't able to have sex with their preferred choice. Seems like most men prioritize sex to the point not having sex isn't an option, so they adjust their targets. 

Have you talked to anyone why you feel that sex is the only way you feel connection? I'm not saying it's freakish, only that it seems to be causing you problems. Is it really about the connection or is it just how being rejected when she isn't in the mood and says no makes you feel? Is it that when rejected, then you can't feel connected? Because that sounds like resentment. 

Obviously, like so many men and women partners, your needs are different. That usually means no one gets totally sexually fulfilled.

When you were young and before kids, did she ever initiate, or is that, like many women, just not normal for her? So if you told her the ball is in her court and she used to initiate, that's fine and maybe something will come of it; but if that never was something she was doing, it's going to be a long wait. I certainly understand not wanting all the rejection. 

You seem to really know when her times are, her schedule for when she is saying yes. That certainly seems like the safest route at this point if she isn't the initiating type. 

If you put any stock in history and adaptation, before birth control, many women, when they reached 40 did what they jokingly called "shutting down the baby factory" because it wasn't safe to get pregnant that late. I remember some women went through bad moods around menopause as well. Losing hormones dries you up. Today we have hormone therapy but not everyone does it or should do it. And it may keep you from literally drying out where it's painful, but that doesn't necessarily mean it increases your libido. You've still got that to face down the road. No matter who you're with.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Don't you think it's time you figured out that it isn't you?

All that extra stuff you're doing in the hopes of getting laid - stop it. Sure, do your share around the house but stop trying to get her interested in you. Stop with the pandering.

You want her attention? Get out of the house and get a life. Let her chase you and see if you can work her into your schedule.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Everything you have tried so far might have made you a better husband and partner, but it pretty clearly has not made you more sexually desirable. The two things are not necessarily related in the way we expect.

You can ruin your wife's desire by being a bad partner, but it is a sound logical statement that you cannot light her fire by being a good partner. It is a necessary but insufficient condition for a good married sex life.

Now you have to discover what actually AROUSES your wife, not what makes her content to keep you as a life partner.

The answer may be, at this point, nothing within your control.

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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

One way to look at problems is those problems we are willing to confront and those we aren’t. From your post it seems like she isn’t willing to confront the problem so it’s either that she sees any attempt as futile or she doesn’t see it as a problem.

Somewhere along the line we all got the collective idea that relieving stress and other obstacles in life turns on the passion. I think that’s bullsh*t. But I understand you trying as that is what she said was the cause. The absence of stress is not passion or physical desire, it’s relaxed, and passion has sh*t to do with relaxed. Being relaxed might just as easily cause a round of golf.

I guess my question would be, “Does she think your requests are valid?” If she does, then some sort of work has to be done, if she doesn’t, well that’s another set of problems.


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## FOB (Oct 29, 2014)

It's like you wrote my story, but my ending has been pretty good (so far...the book is still being written). I beat my head against the wall for years! What worked was finally saying, "We said we'd forsake all others, but there was never anything about forsaking each other. Sorry, this ain't working." And then instead of asking for sex, I started grabbing her by the hand and leading her to the bedroom. She rarely said no at that point. And a funny thing happened: she discovered that's what she likes most. Me not asking was a total turn on for her. May not be the case with your wife, but you never know! We're now at 4-5 times per week and closing in on 50 years old.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> I agree. Although a lot of people on here would say it's passive aggressive.


They are free to have their opinions. 

However, after the 15th time of having 'the talk' with nothing changing, IDGAFF what my partner may think of it. 

They know, but are choosing otherwise. 

That makes my course of action rather simple. 

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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

FOB said:


> It's like you wrote my story, but my ending has been pretty good (so far...the book is still being written). I beat my head against the wall for years! What worked was finally saying, "We said we'd forsake all others, but there was never anything about forsaking each other. Sorry, this ain't working." And then instead of asking for sex, I started grabbing her by the hand and leading her to the bedroom. She rarely said no at that point. And a funny thing happened: she discovered that's what she likes most. Me not asking was a total turn on for her. May not be the case with your wife, but you never know! We're now at 4-5 times per week and closing in on 50 years old.


LOVE this.

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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Some quick wins for you:

Stop having the talk unless you’re telling her you’re going to leave if she doesn’t let you know what the real deal is with your sexual relationship.

Stop choreplay, do chores because you feel like it and they need to be done not as a covert contract.

If she rejects you do something else.

Refuse to spend more time in your current situation. Start making plans to change it by leaving if she doesn’t come around. If at this point she isn’t able to tell you the real deal what choice do you have?


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## FlaviusMaximus (Jan 10, 2012)

ccpowerslave said:


> Stop choreplay...


Heh, I'm gonna have to remember that one...


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

Bil



Elizabeth001 said:


> How have you been together for 30 years but only in your 40s?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Lol, we started dating as teens


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

farsidejunky said:


> Have you ever just stopped doing something that's important to her, or only limiting it to once or twice a month?


I haven't. Its a little passive aggressive for my taste. 

I have pointed out a number of things we do more often than sex... taking out and bringing in the garbage cans, the dishes, laundry, mowing the lawn etc. 

None of those are higher on my priority list

NN


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

NASCARNick said:


> We have the same conversation every year or so, every year. ... Well now its been around 15 years of me not being able to fix it.
> ... And that gets us to today. We had another talk this morning.


Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

NASCARNick said:


> I haven't. Its a little passive aggressive for my taste.


Agreed I have seen this advice recently on the forum. I view it as childish, if it worked for someone good for them but I’d prefer to be honest and lay the cards out on the table.

If you’re not ok with things as they are you need to prepare to leave. If you’re not willing to do this then why would anything suddenly change? Maybe if you act like enough of an asshole you can get her to leave instead but how is that any good?


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Has being a father not changed your focus at all? Has that become a fulfilling "connection" for you or not?


It absolutely has changed me. The "connection" with my kids is substantially different than that i am seeking with my wife, though.



DownByTheRiver said:


> It's not just the hormones and what it does to the body but, as you're strenuously trying to avoid, it's often the resentment that comes with the mother having more work to do 24/7. You've done all you can do about that. And it's also about having someone tugging on you 24/7, the kids for sure, and I would say you want to strenuously also avoid being part of that camp.


As a business owner who worked from home, the kids were my responsibility. I got a lot of work done during naps. Even after they started school, when I went into another line of work, I scheduled my day so I could pick them up from school.




DownByTheRiver said:


> I just hope you realize that women and men are just different sexually, too. Some women would just opt for no sex if they weren't able to have sex with their preferred choice. Seems like most men prioritize sex to the point not having sex isn't an option, so they adjust their targets.


As I said, my goal is that she understands what she wants / needs and then we can work it out together. I don't want her to do something she doesn't want and I don't want pity sex. If she isn't comfortable having sex anymore, at least I have an answer and can stop trying to figure it out. 



DownByTheRiver said:


> Have you talked to anyone why you feel that sex is the only way you feel connection? .... Is it really about the connection or is it just how being rejected when she isn't in the mood and says no makes you feel? Is it that when rejected, then you can't feel connected? Because that sounds like resentment.
> 
> Obviously, like so many men and women partners, your needs are different. That usually means no one gets totally sexually fulfilled.


Sex isn't our only connection but it is an important one to me. If she replies that it isn't for her anymore then I'll find new and different ways. Will I be completely satisfied? Naw but I am confident that we would find a new way.

Rejection? Yeah, that stings. No two ways about it.

As long as I'm not getting mixed signals anymore, I'm confident we can find a way thru this.... my sexual needs can be taken care of in many ways and keeping us grounded and together will have to manifest in a different way



DownByTheRiver said:


> When you were young and before kids, did she ever initiate, or is that, like many women, just not normal for her? So if you told her the ball is in her court and she used to initiate, that's fine and maybe something will come of it; but if that never was something she was doing, it's going to be a long wait. I certainly understand not wanting all the rejection.
> 
> You seem to really know when her times are, her schedule for when she is saying yes. That certainly seems like the safest route at this point if she isn't the initiating type.


Its been a long time since I turned it over to her to initiate. She never had a problem with it before and the frequency hasn't changed since. 

Thanks for the feedback! Really got me thinking

NN


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> Don't you think it's time you figured out that it isn't you?


Lol, only took me 15 years!

NN


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

NASCARNick said:


> It absolutely has changed me. The "connection" with my kids is substantially different than that i am seeking with my wife, though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe leaving it to her and being clear that you're weary of being shot down and so you're going to leave it up to her to initiate or just let you know will produce some results or at least keep you from being rejected as much. I think you need to suggest that you have a sign that is nonverbal because women can be very timid about initiating and feeling embarrassed sometimes. So work out something or even just ask her if she would be most comfortable just coming up and being affectionate or just telling you she's in the mood or whether she would rather have some sort of signal. I mean maybe she puts on a red bra when she's in the mood or something like that. Hope you work it out. There is always the possibility that she just isn't going to be completely truthful because she doesn't want to hurt you because she does love you. So maybe in more indirect sign would work for her. if she tells you she's most comfortable if you just keep initiating then you need to be really honest with her until her that it's really kind of hurting your feelings to get rejected and that you just need a break from initiating right now.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

The advice isn't passive aggressive. You can use the law of diminishing returns or the Pareto principle if it helps to decide where to invest your energy. One thing is for sure, your wife doesn't see value in investing energy in your sex life or marriage. And, make no mistake - investing in your sex life is investing in your marriage.


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Maybe leaving it to her and being clear that you're weary of being shot down and so you're going to leave it up to her to initiate or just let you know will produce some results or at least keep you from being rejected as much. I think you need to suggest that you have a sign that is nonverbal because women can be very timid about initiating and feeling embarrassed sometimes.


I guess I wasn't as clear as I should've been on this. Its been 7 years or more since I turned it over to her.

Its interesting that you suggested nonverbal cues. We've developed them kind of organically, the way she touches me before bed, an inside joke / codeword we used before we were married and more. The downside is that sometimes the subtle hints and clues i put out don't get noticed (or are ignored?)

NN


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

These posts show up all the time and they aren’t gender specific.

You see most advice centered around trying to ”nice them back” or do the “pick me dance” which never gets the intended results. Buy cards, flowers, doing all the housework, read books, etc.

Funny thing is when dealing with infidelity and using the same techniques it normally puts you in worse shape.

From what I’ve read the only thing that works is a modified 180 that @farsidejunky elaborated on. makes perfect sense.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

The advice to shut down all contact because you’re turning off the LDs “needs” is the exact definition of passive aggressive. Wasn’t suggested here but I have read it in the forum recently.

Instead of addressing the feelings head on, ignore the needs of the other person intentionally with the hopes of what exactly?

Tit for tat? Hoping they suddenly realize by being hurt in response to hurt they have caused that they were wrong? Seems much easier to just skip to the end.


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

Blondilocks said:


> The advice isn't passive aggressive. You can use the law of diminishing returns or the Pareto principle if it helps to decide where to invest your energy. One thing is for sure, your wife doesn't see value in investing energy in your sex life or marriage. And, make no mistake - investing in your sex life is investing in your marriage.


Interesting, i completely agree with the thought when put this way.... the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

I think our conversation today was very different from the many in the past and I'm hopeful it makes a difference. We'll see how things go the next few months!

NN


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> Seems like it’s the exact definition of passive aggressive. Instead of addressing the feelings head on, ignore the needs of the other person intentionally with the hopes of what exactly?
> 
> Tit for tat? Hoping they suddenly realize by being hurt in response to hurt they have caused that they were wrong? Seems much easier to just skip to the end.


How many times is he expected to have the heart to heart?

How is HE ignoring her needs? How is him focusing on himself hurting HER?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> How many times is he expected to have the heart to heart?


I’d say either zero if he’s not going to leave or one if he tells her that without improvement he will leave.

I got confused about the advice with the other similar thread that is going now.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

So your post says that you have sex about 3-5 times a month, so more or less once a week. You also said that she enjoys the times you have sex. You then said that you want sex 2-3 times a week. Could you not talk and compromise on once or twice a week? From what you said you are not that far apart.
I dont agree with some here on playing silly games.


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## NASCARNick (Feb 4, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> So your post says that you have sex about 3-5 times a month, so more or less once a week. You also said that she enjoys the times you have sex. You then said that you want sex 2-3 times a week. Could you not talk and compromise on twice a week? From what you said you are not that far apart.
> I dont agree with some here on playing silly games.


I would be ecstatic for this. I am hoping that is where we will land.

That being said, if that is all she can give then I'll figure out next steps. I would hope that she could compromise but everything's trickier when it comes to sex.

As I said, if she is going to go starfish on me or just go thru the motions, I'd rather not. My goal is a deeper connection and sex that way doesn't do it

NN


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

ccpowerslave said:


> The advice to shut down all contact because you’re turning off the LDs “needs” is the exact definition of passive aggressive. Wasn’t suggested here but I have read it in the forum recently.
> 
> Instead of addressing the feelings head on, ignore the needs of the other person intentionally with the hopes of what exactly?
> 
> Tit for tat? Hoping they suddenly realize by being hurt in response to hurt they have caused that they were wrong? Seems much easier to just skip to the end.


And this is exactly the conversation I invite. 

Intent matters. If I am doing it to punish her, it is certainly passive aggressive. If I do it to protect me, it is anything but. 

Furthermore, it is not PA when you tell them what you are doing and why you are doing it.

"Wife, since you have made it clear that pleasing each other in our relationship is a matter of how you feel, I am going to embrace and adopt that same approach."

That isn't PA, it's just A.

The idea is to stop investing in someone who is not investing in you. At that point (and as I've said before), IDGAFF how she feels about it.

No means no...right?



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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

True that is A not PA.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

NASCARNick said:


> Interesting, i completely agree with the thought when put this way.... the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.
> 
> I think our conversation today was very different from the many in the past and I'm hopeful it makes a difference. We'll see how things go the next few months!
> 
> NN


Sorry man but talk may not get you what you intended.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Yeah because the 37th talk will go so much better than the other 36.

Your wasting your time.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Only actions count.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

NASCARNick said:


> We have the same conversation every year or so, every year. At some point in the talk, she'll cry over letting me down and I feel even worse for bringing it up. On a regular basis, my stomach is in knots, I can't sleep (end up on couch after she falls asleep and sneak back in before she wakes up), and I'm getting more irritable.
> 
> Well now its been around 15 years of me not being able to fix it.


So you've been doing this dance repeatedly for 15 years, yet nothing changes. At the end of the day having the talk absent any action isn't the answer.

Given your extraordinary inertia, acceptance and unwillingness to rock the boat, why should your wife have any reason or feel any compulsion to behave differently?

Oh and here's a pro tip for you, in case it hasn't already been addressed. Doing chores and doing things that have nothing to do with sex. Plus not owning ones sexuality and being explicit with your sexual desires. Do absolutely nothing to generate sexual desire and sexual arousal from ones spouse/sexual partner/s.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

NASCARNick said:


> Result? Nothing ever changes long term. The pattern is the same: after her monthly period we have sex, sometimes twice that week. Then again once the next week. Third week is hit or miss as is 4th week. When she starts her period, its hands off and no intimacy for 2 weeks.


I agree with the sentiment reflected that she needs to step up with you or figure out for herself where she is at; which is not for you to determine. I also think @Diana7 raises a good point that if there's a mutual intention of frequency, perhaps that could occur. Although, as the saying goes, hope is not a plan. It takes both of you to be invested and intentional about this.

Granted, I might be getting into pointy detail here but I wanted to query why there is no intimacy following the start of her menstruation? Intimacy does not need to mean intercourse, I'm unsure if that is what you meant, so that time could certainly remain erotic between you. However, I'm not suggesting this is on you to 'solve'. For any lasting change to occur, she would need to play an active role alongside you. Others here have suggested different approaches that have worked for them, which is more focused on you directly.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

NASCARNick said:


> I guess I wasn't as clear as I should've been on this. Its been 7 years or more since I turned it over to her.
> 
> Its interesting that you suggested nonverbal cues. We've developed them kind of organically, the way she touches me before bed, an inside joke / codeword we used before we were married and more. The downside is that sometimes the subtle hints and clues i put out don't get noticed (or are ignored?)
> 
> NN


If you're open to sharing (and understandable if you're not), what are the kind of 'subtle hints and clues' that don't get noticed (or potentially ignored)?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Cletus said:


> Everything you have tried so far might have made you a better husband and partner, but it pretty clearly has not made you more sexually desirable. The two things are not necessarily related in the way we expect.
> 
> You can ruin your wife's desire by being a bad partner, but it is a sound logical statement that you cannot light her fire by being a good partner. It is a necessary but insufficient condition for a good married sex life.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Personal said:


> Doing chores and doing things that have nothing to do with sex.


With the exception of taking care of spiders.

I kid.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> With the exception of taking care of spiders.


My wife deals with the spiders for me, which a big reason why I'm married.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Personal said:


> My wife deals with the spiders for me, which a big reason why I'm married.


Never let her go!


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

NASCARNick said:


> As I said, my goal is that she understands what she wants / needs and then we can work it out together. I don't want her to do something she doesn't want and I don't want pity sex. If she isn't comfortable having sex anymore, at least I have an answer and can stop trying to figure it out.
> 
> Sex isn't our only connection but it is an important one to me. If she replies that it isn't for her anymore then I'll find new and different ways. Will I be completely satisfied? Naw but I am confident that we would find a new way.


So then, are you saying you'd accept little or no sex and still continue on in the relationship? If so, then you might consider telling her. IMO many times avoiding discussions of sex is a fear thing. It's understood that most guys won't stay committed (at least not happily) in a celibate relationship; if you don't like sex but appreciate the relationship otherwise there's a big incentive to defer the discussion as long as possible.

You need to just put it out there, whichever way you feel. There's nothing wrong with saying "If you keep behaving in this manner I'm not going to care about us before too long". At that point there's nothing for her to lose by speaking her mind because you're telling her the outcome she wants to avoid is coming anyways.


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## britneyj21 (Feb 5, 2021)

*Here are some techniques couples can use to get their accelerator going, according to Nagoski.*

Schedule time for *sex*. Couples who stay in long-term, happy relationships usually prioritize *sex* and even put it on their calendars, says Nagoski. ...
Avoid the 'chasing dynamic' ...
Stop focusing on *sex*. ...
MORE RELATIONSHIP ADVICE.


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