# red flags everywhere or am I crazy?



## youaremetoo

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## MyRevelation

One thing I've learned is that your "gut" is likely the best infidelity detector at your disposal. It won't tell you the who, what, where and how many, but it will tell you when something is "off" in your M ... TRUST YOUR GUT!!!

Look, your "gut" bothered you to the point that you went online looking for infidelity help, which led you here. That's not just your gut feeling off, its telling you something is so wrong it has prompted you to take action. Others will be around with more snooping advice, but I wanted to let you know ... whatever you do, don't let your W gaslight you into believing that you're the crazy one for questioning her integrity and virtue.

You are right, there are red flags waving everywhere ... a guy known for sexual harassment has been sniffing around your W for years now, even after they quit working together, and you have caught her in LIE after LIE about their relationship. There no longer is any valid reason for them to be in contact, but they still are, even after you have expressed your concerns. Those few facts by themselves are enough to put most of the BH's here on high alert to investigate further. 

Brace yourself for the ****storm that you are likely to experience as you start peeling the layers off this onion.


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## browser

If nothing else I'd be seriously concerned about her rapidly failing memory. I mean, if it's this bad now, imagine what she'll be like in another 30 years.


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## Lostinthought61

i would sit her down and tell her that you basically do not trust what ever comes out of her mouth and tell her that at this point this marriage is in deep trouble, and ask her if its okay if you had a relationship like she had with this guy...the "exact relationship" because tell her if she is saying that is nothing to be concern than i would her that its okay for you...then watch her body and facial expression for changes...then drop the bomb that you want her to take a polygraph and than watch her expressions and body movement. Basically she is holding back the truth and we all know why that is happening.


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## nekonamida

youaremetoo said:


> I have been looking at phone records and she actually told him that she got fired she texted him first so that was the first lie that got me going. She said she lied to me to save herself from me cuz I'm so jealous.
> 
> So we are in therapy now and she lied to the therapist now too saying she didn't invite him but I brang up the phone records and she just says she doesn't remember.


So first she remembers and then she "forgets" in between then and therapy? Did you bring up how she magically remembered the last time you talked about it or did you accept her lying to the therapist?



youaremetoo said:


> Now the therapist says I need to just get over this and stop thinking about it or else we can't do therapy anymore. And that I can only talk to the therapist about it cuz my wife cries.


So your wife told your therapist about a man who stalked her for years and the therapist said nothing about it? Gave no advice on what to do if this man stalks her again? Pretended like it was totally fine and normal and you're the only one that has a problem with it? What a terrible therapist. If she believed your wife's sketchy story about this excoworker stalking her and didn't act surprised, shocked, appalled, and gave your wife support and information on what to do if he resurfaces, she didn't buy your wife's lies either and yet she expected you to swallow that bull. You can't continue on with a therapist who thinks it's fine and dandy for your wife to repeatedly lie to you and want you to accept that just because she cries when confronted.



youaremetoo said:


> He hasn't texted her at all and I said I want to see whatever he texts her she said she would show me. But I dunno maybe she's just talking to him using her work email.


You tipped your hand when you told her about the phone log. She's taken the communication underground either by email or an app on her phone.



youaremetoo said:


> It seems like him and her would mess around then come back to their spouses. They only texted on weekdays during business hours.


AND she did this before with her last husband. She just got a little bit better at hiding it this time. I think you're entirely correct about what went on. From everything you have said, it's pretty obvious. So now that you know she's a liar, a cheater, and she will never fess up to it, what do you want to do about it?


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## youaremetoo

She said she would take a polygraph, but I know those don't work. She volunteered


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## jb02157

Might as well just say it, she's had or is having a PA with this guy. She went to great lengths to lie and hide it from you. I don't know how you could ever trust her again. If you forgive her, she'll either keep doing it with him or find another boyfriend.


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## Thor

I am a dissenter on this one. Your wife's story is plausible. It also seems she has weak boundaries to some extent by not totally blocking him on her phone. If the guy had a history of harassing women, he could be the kind who grooms women over time. His actions sound like such a person.

Would you describe your wife as someone who tends to try to please others? Does she tend to do things for others when she would prefer not to?

Her ex-boss certainly seems like a persistent creep. I am not leaning towards your wife having had an affair with him.


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## Hope1964

You're not crazy. She has you totally hoodwinked. And you DEFINITELY need a different therapist.


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> She said she would take a polygraph, but I know those don't work. She volunteered


Then she too, knows that polygraphs don't work. Or, she's innocent.

Either way the threat of a polygraph won't compel her to tell you anything new, and the test itself, as you know, is meaningless so forget it.

Unless she offered to take it thinking that would somehow convince you she's innocent and you wouldn't make her take one, in which case she could be guilty and she does fear a polygraph, and the threat of the test might actually get a confession out of her.

This is so twisted.


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## nekonamida

youaremetoo said:


> She said she would take a polygraph, but I know those don't work. She volunteered


Then call her bluff and do it. A polygraph with an experienced administer has about a 93% accuracy. Your wife right now with all her lies and conveniently timed memory lapses offers basically no chance of you getting the truth. You can either do the test and get some clarity, choose not to believe your wife because of all the lies and act accordingly, or choose to believe her and always wonder.


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## youaremetoo

She is a very sweet, kind, and nice person. She does try to make everyone happy.


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## nekonamida

browser said:


> Unless she offered to take it thinking that would somehow convince you she's innocent and you wouldn't make her take one, in which case she could be guilty and she does fear a polygraph, and the threat of the test might actually get a confession out of her.


I'm betting this is the case because she pushed him into therapy to convince him of her story and then got super nervous right before therapy. Someone who is telling the truth doesn't get nervous right before they have to talk about it with a neutral third party. She's probably doing the same thing by telling him what he wants to hear and then worrying about how she's going to pass when it actually happens or just convincing him it's wrong if she fails. She's tried to convince him and manipulate him over all sorts of things up until now so why would she suddenly do anything differently?


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## thedope

Dude she for sure cheated. It is very very very obvious. I'm not trying to be a jerk and I am sorry. But she had a long sexual affair with that dude. Your therapist needs to be replaced. Do the 180. Until she is willing to fully admit to her affair I'd go consult an attorney.


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## thedope

She might agree to the polygraph but as we have all seen cheaters rarely follow through. OP should schedule and appointment for a polygraph for WW then watch her reaction and see if she is actually willing to take one. I doubt she would, or she will trickle truth.


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## ButtPunch

youaremetoo said:


> She said she lied to me to save herself from me cuz I'm so jealous.


I found her story plausible until she pulled this card.

Trust your gut. Something stinks.


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## bandit.45

youaremetoo said:


> She is a very sweet, kind, and nice person. She does try to make everyone happy.


Yes but she also acts like a bimbo with no boundaries. She showed you that before the two of you even married. I would have dumped her when I saw her grinding on the guy at the nightclub. 

You get what you pay for my friend.


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## LosingHim

nekonamida said:


> I'm betting this is the case because she pushed him into therapy to convince him of her story and then got super nervous right before therapy. *Someone who is telling the truth doesn't get nervous right before they have to talk about it with a neutral third party*. She's probably doing the same thing by telling him what he wants to hear and then worrying about how she's going to pass when it actually happens or just convincing him it's wrong if she fails. She's tried to convince him and manipulate him over all sorts of things up until now so why would she suddenly do anything differently?


NOT TRUE. I have horrible anxiety and I get nervous before talking to my therapist ALONE. Just today I went to lunch with some coworkers. Nothing important to be talked about, I’ve known all of these people for years and sitting with them to eat was making my anxiety go through the roof. There were 7 of us total and I’m comfortable with each one of these people. 

I’m not saying this entire story is above board because I have some doubts. But you also have proof she told her friend he was creepy. Usually once a woman calls a man creepy, she doesn’t magically want to sleep with him later on.


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## youaremetoo

I think this was a front so her friend doesn't suspect anything she still talked to his creepy ass..and had him come to our house.

She said people can change and not be creepy anymore.....that blew my F***ing mind!

She also offered that we should change her phone number

She deletes text messages like crazy too


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## Yeswecan

Does sound like the OM is a creeper. I'm believing nothing occurred more then a boss looking to get himself fired yet again for sexual advances on the job. OM targeted OP W. However, W should have cut all ties after OM was fired from the job. 

Why is the boss on your W FB page?


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## nekonamida

LosingHim said:


> NOT TRUE. I have horrible anxiety and I get nervous before talking to my therapist ALONE. Just today I went to lunch with some coworkers. Nothing important to be talked about, I’ve known all of these people for years and sitting with them to eat was making my anxiety go through the roof. There were 7 of us total and I’m comfortable with each one of these people.


Anxiety is a special case in which this doesn't apply. For people without anxiety though, nervousness tends to be a sign of dishonesty. It's up to youaremetoo to determine if she is a naturally anxious person so it is worth considering.



LosingHim said:


> I’m not saying this entire story is above board because I have some doubts. But you also have proof she told her friend he was creepy. Usually once a woman calls a man creepy, she doesn’t magically want to sleep with him later on.


Here's the thing - she had multiple friends call this guy a creep and family members. She blocked him on FB at her friend's insistence but kept texting him and talking to him on her phone. Every scenario in which she claimed he just showed up or talked to her, the phone records show that she reached out to him first. So if she thought he was creepy and he was stalking her, why in the world would she text or call him after he left her alone for lengthy periods of time? She wouldn't. People don't randomly reach out and check up on creeps who stalk them for funsies. They ghost them, block them, stop feeding into it, and at worst get other people involved to get them to back off like their husband or the police. She did it because at a minimum she liked the attention he gave her despite a whole chorus of people in her life telling her not to. She then hid it from them too.


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## youaremetoo

She doesn't mind him doing all that stalking, but she said I am cyber stalking looking at our phone records

And she's not anxious, she actually tells me to not be anxious about things


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> She doesn't mind him doing all that stalking, but she said I am cyber stalking looking at our phone records


Tell her it's your only option given her huge, sudden, and unexpected memory lapses.


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## LosingHim

nekonamida said:


> Anxiety is a special case in which this doesn't apply. For people without anxiety though, nervousness tends to be a sign of dishonesty. It's up to youaremetoo to determine if she is a naturally anxious person so it is worth considering.
> 
> 
> Here's the thing - she had multiple friends call this guy a creep and family members. She blocked him on FB at her friend's insistence but kept texting him and talking to him on her phone. Every scenario in which she claimed he just showed up or talked to her, the phone records show that she reached out to him first. So if she thought he was creepy and he was stalking her, why in the world would she text or call him after he left her alone for lengthy periods of time? She wouldn't. People don't randomly reach out and check up on creeps who stalk them for funsies. They ghost them, block them, stop feeding into it, and at worst get other people involved to get them to back off like their husband or the police. She did it because at a minimum she liked the attention he gave her despite a whole chorus of people in her life telling her not to. She then hid it from them too.


I think SOMETHING is up. I just don't know if its a full blown affair.


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## Hope1964

LosingHim said:


> I think SOMETHING is up. I just don't know if its a full blown affair.


:iagree: Could just be the creepy OM stalker dude plus her apparent lack of boundaries and it's innocent. Or, she could have the wool pulled over his eyes and be banging creepy dude on a regular basis.


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## badmemory

OP,

You need to ask yourself these questions: 

Why would a man with his reputation, continue to contact and meet up with your wife over this length of time, if he was not getting sex?

Why would your wife lie to you about the details? 

How many other times do you think they've met up that you don't know about?

Why would you accept her continuing contact with him?

My take:

It's possible they didn't have sex, but I'd bet my mortgage they have. Men, particularly players, just don't keep up the contact for that long - for "friendship".

Your wife wouldn't lie to you if she had nothing to hide.

Why you put up with her doing this is unfathomable. At best, she's busting open a marital boundary, disrespecting you in the process; and at worst, she's having a affair right in front of your face - thinking you're too gullible to catch on.


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## thedope

She clearly cheated. Her deleting text messages, have the dude over , being exceedingly defensive = she cheated. Sorry Man.


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## youaremetoo

Do I lie and say I know what happened and if she doesn't tell me we're done?

Do I say we are now seperating? 

We have a house and kids. Maybe we can do this without attorneys?


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> Do I lie and say I know what happened and if she doesn't tell me we're done?


Only if you're completely ready and willing to follow through, even though you'll never be 100% sure if you pulled the trigger too quickly.



youaremetoo said:


> Do I say we are now seperating?


No, that's just weak. If you're going to do it then just go all the way otherwise it's a watered down version and simply says you're having some sort of temper tantrum because you think she's hiding something from you. 



youaremetoo said:


> We have a house and kids. Maybe we can do this without attorneys?


Not a chance.


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## youaremetoo

She tells me when does she have time to cheat

And I would tell you if I did

And that the guy is gross and wouldn't I be texting him more if I were?


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## browser

Are you as unconvinced by her responses as I am?


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## youaremetoo

Yes I am. This is so stressful


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## LosingHim

You want the truth? Tell her you want a divorce. You don't have to mean it, but she has to think you do. You'll get your answer.


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## browser

At least you're not in denial. Lots of betrayed spouses are and they're like sitting ducks.


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## youaremetoo

She says if I don't believe her then I should divorce her (previously). She says I'm pushing her away


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> She says if I don't believe her then I should divorce her (previously)


You need to back off and stop being confrontational. It's not working for you.


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## Lostinthought61

so you have a choice you can either sweep rug all of these red flags and move on with your life ALWAYS wondering if she is being honest with you, and ALWAYS wondering about what she is hiding....you may never know but be content that at least you have a marriage, not a good one but a marriage for some that is enough.... or address this....go full on exposure and seek the truth....you may not like the answers, you may not get all the answers and your marriage may devolve depending on how much she is willing to share and more importantly how much you mean to her over him.


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## youaremetoo

I dunno why she would tell me that he has a crush on her if she didn't want me to investigate further, like I would think that's the last thing she would want to tell me.


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## youaremetoo

She tells me she told me everything. I have no way of getting anything out of her. She says she had to really rack her brain to remember everything to tell me.


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> I dunno why she would tell me that he has a crush on her if she didn't want me to investigate further, like I would think that's the last thing she would want to tell me.


It's a deflection, a half truth, whatever. 

She's giving you a partial truth so you'll back off and it's one less thing she has to hide. Helps explain back and forth texts, phone calls, etc.

I don't doubt for a second that he's got a crush on her. But it's not the whole story.


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## Lostinthought61

you know she is holding back...its not like she suddenly has dementia...okay ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph and see what she say...look her straight in the eyes and see if her eyes move downward and to the left.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## thedope

Current tactic is not working. Suggest that he should contact attorney ASAP to protect himself. He is already getting trickle truthed. She clearly had sex with the guy. He should see the attorney, and do the 180. It is best way to save the marriage. She isn't going to be more forthright until he shows he is serious. He should consider filing for a divorce


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## youaremetoo

Why do I need to protect myself......from what? What is the 180?


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## Marc878

If you want the truth do a deleted text recovery on her phone. Fonelab, Etc. there are many systems that can pull the deleted info. Look it up.


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## Marc878

No matter what it's not normal. She put you in a position of distrust.


Your therapist is a Rugsweeper. Fire her/him


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## Evinrude58

Deleting texts says it all.
But the passcode you do t know for her phone and that she guards her phone would say the same.

Don't pull the divorce card. You don't mean it.

VAR her car.
Get the deleted texts.
Decide if you really want a divorce when you find the truth. You've been not trying to find the truth for a long time. If you don't want to divorce over this, you'd better find a anyway to get to a place of strength.

If you want the truth, VAR her car and get the deleted texts. You could snatch her phone while she was on it and change the passcode, right? Then get into it when you had a chance and pull up the deleted texts. Those would be rough to read. People don't delete them for no reason.


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## thedope

https://www.emotionalaffair.org/do-a-180-to-save-your-marriage/

180

Someone might have a better link or be able to explain it better.


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## thedope

I agree the therapist is a rug sweeper. Essentially your wife and therapist want you to ignore the whole thing. That is absurd any therapist who told you to just get over it, needs to be fired.


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## ConanHub

He came to your home while you were gone to give your wife his meat....


He looked up.your address off her resume?

Maybe stop him or something?


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## Vinnydee

My rule of thumb is that if it looks like cheating, smells like cheating and tastes like cheating, it is cheating and I do not have to catch my spouse red handed. I look at it this way. Whether I suspect she is cheating or she is actually cheating, her behavior is invoking the same feelings in you so it really does not matter. I would not stay married to a wife who made me feel like she was cheating. A loving spouse would not make you feel suspicious of her. My wife goes out of her way to let me know where she is at all times and I have never had a reason to worry about her in 44 years.


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## Lostinthought61

here is another approach...i would take your wife down to the courts and put out a restraining order on him as a stalker...she is good with that.


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## ButtPunch

Evinrude58 said:


> Deleting texts says it all.
> But the passcode you do t know for her phone and that she guards her phone would say the same.
> 
> Don't pull the divorce card. You don't mean it.
> 
> VAR her car.
> Get the deleted texts.
> Decide if you really want a divorce when you find the truth. You've been not trying to find the truth for a long time. If you don't want to divorce over this, you'd better find a anyway to get to a place of strength.
> 
> If you want the truth, VAR her car and get the deleted texts. You could snatch her phone while she was on it and change the passcode, right? Then get into it when you had a chance and pull up the deleted texts. Those would be rough to read. People don't delete them for no reason.


Good advice here.


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## badmemory

For starters, you tell her you no longer will except her having contact with him. Period. End of story.

She needs to send him a no contact letter that you read, approve and mail. She needs to block his phone number, email and Facebook access. She will tell you if he attempts to contact her in any way. She will not delete texts or emails and be completely transparent with her communication devices. She will account for her time away from you.

Next, she will provide you her phone for deleted text recovery and you will continue to monitor her cell phone records.

If she refuses to do just one thing on this list; she has made the decision on divorce for you.


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## MyRevelation

youaremetoo said:


> Yes I am. This is so stressful


I never knew my W had the ability to be such a convincing LIAR, but I found out on D-day just how good of a liar she was and had been, and you know what made her such a convincing liar, was the simple fact that I wanted to believe her. Once I wrapped my head around the fact that she could lie to me and that she was very good at it, I started looking and hearing her much differently. What once caused so much stress in me, now fueled my ANGER, and the bull**** and lies stopped, because they didn't work any longer when I started calling her on her bull****. I sense you're about to have that same epiphany.


----------



## newlab

MyRevelation said:


> I never knew my W had the ability to be such a convincing LIAR, but I found out on D-day just how good of a liar she was and had been, and you know what made her such a convincing liar, was the simple fact that I wanted to believe her. Once I wrapped my head around the fact that she could lie to me and that she was very good at it, I started looking and hearing her much differently. What once caused so much stress in me, now fueled my ANGER, and the bull**** and lies stopped, because they didn't work any longer when I started calling her on her bull****. I sense you're about to have that same epiphany.


I guess everyone is shock when an affair revealed. What we all know is that cheaters follow the same pattern however careful they think they can be. Suggestions people give you here come from same/similar experience.


----------



## Thor

For sure your trust in her is shot. That is the primary problem to you remaining married or having a happy marriage. As I said before, her story is plausible. It may or may not be probable, but I've known people who are weak and naive as your wife is presenting. The problem is the red flags are based on logic and human experience, which is why so many are jumping to the conclusion she obviously cheated.

So you have a few choices here. One is to simply say the breach in the marriage is sufficient to justify divorce regardless of whether she actually had sex with the guy. Another choice would be to investigate to get as much information as possible in order to determine if she had an affair with him. The third choice is to accept she did cheat, and that you are willing to truly forgive it and move forward in the marriage.

I don't think the 3rd choice will work for you. It isn't rug-sweeping because you would accept the situation as she did have an affair. But you would simply put it in the past and move forward. You don't sound like the kind who could do that.

The first option is a possibility. But, like many, you have complications which make it an undesirable outcome. I think you said you have kids, but I could be confusing threads. If there are no kids, divorce may be an option to get to a happier place.

But I like Option 2, which is to investigate. Since all of this is past history with no suspected continuing affair, it may be more difficult. But, she may well be in contact with friends, family, or even the man in question. She may be discussing the situation with people. So you have a small window here to catch her comms. VAR the car and VAR a room in the house where she makes regular voice calls. Keylog the family computer if she uses it. Use the phone recovery tools people have suggested. Look at recovering backups of her phone to the computer. Recover emails from her deleted folder on her phone, computer, and tablet.

In a week you should have all of this data.

If there is still no strong proof in one direction or the other, do the polygraph. I think it is an extreme measure, but she has definitely done things which raise suspicions in a reasonable adult. A polygraph can undermine her sense of security in the relationship, so I would put it as a last resort.

But the fact is if you cannot establish trust in the marriage then your marriage will eventually fail. The issue isn't really whether she had an affair with the guy, it is whether you can have a good happy marriage with her. That requires trust.


----------



## nekonamida

youaremetoo said:


> She tells me when does she have time to cheat


During the multiple lunch dates and times you know for a fact she was with him. She's had plenty of opportunities.



youaremetoo said:


> And that the guy is gross and wouldn't I be texting him more if I were?


Women don't text guys they find gross. Her own friends told her to stop messaging him. Any amount of texting with him is a problem. Worse yet she calls him too so for some reason she wants to hear the voice of a "gross" man.

From the perspective of someone who frequently deals with liars, she's terrible at it. She's not even remotely convincing. The more she talks, the less I believe her because there are huge glaring inconsistencies in everything she says. She'd only have a point with those two lines if she never saw him in person and never texted him but she does both and yet wants you to think she doesn't.

Your options are:
- Bluff and say you have proof that more happened. Don't tell her how you know just that you know if she doesn't come clean, you will be moving out and filing for divorce. She will probably keep lying to you until you have more evidence so this is the least effective option.
- Insist on the polygraph and watch her sweat it out.
- Keep digging. Hire a PI to look into her relationship with this guy. Use a text recovery program on her phone. If you go this route, stop asking and start demanding. Tell her to give you her phone right now so that you can run the recovery program on it or you will leave. You're already headed towards divorce if you don't sort this out or you find evidence of cheating so you have nothing to lose. If she refuses, she's guilty as hell. Innocent people are willing to offer up proof that they are innocent and she wants to divorce when questioned because she knows she will be getting a divorce anyways if you find out.


----------



## youaremetoo

Ok. The phone recoveries require root, which would wipe the phone if I root it.

I can't really go to her work and start snooping around which sucks. I can question her friend that works next to her I guess

She says she will tell me every text or phone call if he does text or call her.. so that's a little helpful

She doesn't really keep anything locked up I mean I know all of her passcodes on all her phones since the beginning. She tells me to look at texts or get phone if she can't.


----------



## re16

What kind of phone is it? Not all need a root to get deleted texts....


----------



## youaremetoo

Moto 4G


----------



## youaremetoo

There is a chance it really was nothing and I'm just paranoid. 

I had to think about this if they did stuff and he hates his wife, but they broke it off he might do something stupid that I will find out about. She has to keep that in her mind. She can't control him, and he knows where we live now, her mom confirmed that she was there when he came over.

They really didn't talk that much. He initiated almost all convos and she didn't say much back as in one or two messages. Maybe she called him from office phone I dunno.


----------



## Thor

youaremetoo said:


> There is a chance it really was nothing and I'm just paranoid.


No, not paranoid. The red flags are definitely there. Paranoid would be if you jumped to the conclusion she was cheating based on nothing.

Your reaction was normal. His behavior is definitely not right. He comes across to me as a player who is carefully grooming your wife for sex. What we don't know is if your wife had an affair with him. The evidence is just not nearly conclusive.


----------



## youaremetoo

So if I didn't say anything and kept monitoring that would have been better. I just jump on stuff too quickly


----------



## nekonamida

youaremetoo said:


> There is a chance it really was nothing and I'm just paranoid.


Read this over and over again from your first post every time you think this:



youaremetoo said:


> She was married before and divorced cuz she kissed a guy that liked her and would have lunch with her, who became her bf.


She did this before. What makes you think she wouldn't do it again? And she left her marriage over a kiss? Do you really believe that? They had sex. That's why she left her last husband for him.

So maybe she didn't want to leave you for him this time or maybe this guy wouldn't commit so she kept it casual and got with him when she could. Either way, you're blind if you think she's incapable of doing something she did in her last marriage to you. That's as bad as cheating with someone and then being shocked when they cheat on you too.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## badmemory

youaremetoo said:


> Moto 4G


You shouldn't have to root an Android phone to get to the deleted texts. Let me know if I'm wrong Gus. @GusPolinski


----------



## GusPolinski

badmemory said:


> You shouldn't have to root an Android phone to get to the deleted texts. Let me know if I'm wrong Gus. @GusPolinski


The short answer is, "It depends."

On many you do, even if it's only temporary.

Not all Androids are created equal; in fact, none of them are.

Also depends on the app used for messaging.


----------



## browser

TheTruthHurts said:


> Here's s current thread that is equally bizarre but w passed a poly and h is choosing to move forward in the marriage
> 
> "Did my wife cheat on me? Need help"
> 
> https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?sh...iage.com/showthread.php?t=370522&share_type=t


 @TheTruthHurts

I've been following that thread and have posted on it more than once and I take issue with the word "bizarre" to describe it, as if there's something unusual about a poor guy with a cheating wife with all the signs who has chosen to take the word of a polygraph test examiner and his wife, and not continue sleuthing, despite significant damning evidence to the contrary. (In summary, there's no sex life and she's been buying lingerie and getting dolled up and wearing crotchless panties to work - where according to her husband she has hours and hours of free time to go and do as she pleases, and he didn't even know she went and purchased these items, and when he discovered them and confronted her she said "oh I got them for us but I got scared and changed my mind about telling you). 

It's perfectly normal for a betrayed spouse to ignore the warning signs and bury their head in the sand and pretend everything's going to be just fine, because let's face it, as human beings we instinctively want to avoid pain and the easiest thing to do is bury our heads in the sand. Until the wind blows so fiercely that all the sand is gone and we're left with our head on the ground looking rather foolish.


----------



## BetrayedDad

youaremetoo said:


> We meet at a club, she approached me. After a few weeks of dating we went to the club with a guy and a girl and my wife(gf at time) grinded hardcore on the guy in front of me. I asked her about it and she said it was cuz he got us in for free.


Red flag! So you dumped your cheating gf immediately right?



youaremetoo said:


> Been married to wife for 8 years.


****.... couldn't even make it past the opening paragraph.

I can already tell this is not going to end well but I will answer your question.



youaremetoo said:


> Red flags everywhere or am I crazy?


There are red flags EVERYWHERE. More red flags than a communist parade. 

And yes you are crazy for ignoring them. So yes on both parts.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## browser

TheTruthHurts said:


> I've read your concerns and don't share them. That's why I posted the link so OP could see a couple where the W has very clear red flags but she passed a polygraph


I didn't post any "concerns" I simply reposted the facts as the Op presented them in his first post on that thread that point very strongly to an affair, and then pointed out that he blindly accepted the results of a test that has been proven time and time again to be unreliable, and then questioned why this is considered to be a bizarre story and then followed up with a general statement about humans tend to rationalize and deny in order to spare themselves the pain of reality.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## browser

TheTruthHurts said:


> Your choice of words show your concern and I don't share them


So you think that his wife's explanation that she bought the lingerie and crotchless panties that she wore to work on several occasions, without ever telling him she purchased them in the first place, and never wore when she was with him, because she was just sort of "trying them out" and was "scared to wear them for him" is even remotely plausible and that he should just blindly accept the findings of the polygraph test and not question his wife further or at least keep an eye out for possible infidelity?

Because yeah, I don't.


----------



## weightlifter

Flip a coin as to whether she is cheating. Plausable but not probable. Might be something else altogether like a different OM than the one you are looking at.


----------



## Thor

TheTruthHurts said:


> I've read your concerns and don't share them. That's why I posted the link so OP could see a couple where the W has very clear red flags but she passed a polygraph


We've had a handful of cases like that where the circumstantial evidence sure looked like there was an affair but there wasn't. Rare but it happens.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## arbitrator

*Tell you what! If she ain't guilty of hauling somebody else's ashes, I'll sell you Kyle Field for $25.00!

And present you with a title!

Get yourself checked out for the presence of STD's and start a dialogue with a good family attorney!

The OM could literally be anybody! I think you're being hoodwinked!*


----------



## browser

TheTruthHurts said:


> I think I've said that twice already


I guess I cannot fathom how someone who sounds like a reasonably intelligent individual who is not directly connected to and influenced by the situation as is the betrayed husband, would simply accept the results of a test that is known to be prone to error and which in this particular case seems to be contradicted by almost indisputable evidence that points to an affair.


----------



## ZedZ

browser said:


> So you think that his wife's explanation that she bought the lingerie and crotchless panties that she wore to work on several occasions, without ever telling him she purchased them in the first place, and never wore when she was with him, because she was just sort of "trying them out" and was "scared to wear them for him" is even remotely plausible and that he should just blindly accept the findings of the polygraph test and not question his wife further or at least keep an eye out for possible infidelity?
> 
> Because yeah, I don't.


I have to agree...if she didn't get them for the H...I don't believe see got crotch less underwear for herself... She bought them to "show" someone....since she kept them hidden from from you it's quite obvious...especially looking from the outside in....


----------



## youaremetoo

So I told her I want to run scans on her phones for his messages. She said no. Then said let's see what the therapist would say about that. Then I said ok ok. Then she cracked and said I could but that she wants to see them too so I don't take anything out of context.....omg..


----------



## thedope

There is no way in hell she didn't cheat. OP is making mistake after mistake. Now that she knows he wants to get deleted texts she is going to have it wiped. The only way he is going to know for sure is a lie detector test. 

OP's wife is gaslighting him and possibly hood winking. I not buying her explanations at all. If anything it just utterly proves she is lying. He is getting some bad advice in here too in my opinion.


----------



## thedope

If the affair is still in going the only thing that has been accomplished is to push it so far underground it will be hard to expose it.


----------



## re16

First you shouldn't have asked her if you can recover texts, it is something that you just do. But you asked and she said no to recovering the texts and you allowed that? You should have just taken the phone right there. That is full blown evidence there is something major hiding in those texts.

Take the phone. Get her another one. This is bigger than you think.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## youaremetoo

No idea here why she can't just admit after I keep nagging her about it. I told her I would stay with her and not tell anyone and we can move on. Maybe they have blackmail on each other.


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> No idea here why she can't just admit after I keep nagging her about it. I told her I would stay with her and not tell anyone and we can move on. Maybe they have blackmail on each other.


There's a host of reasons why a cheater won't admit the affair, even in the face of damning evidence that cannot be disputed.

"Mutual blackmail from the affair partner" is not usually on that list.

For starters, I highly doubt she believes you when you say you'd stay with her if she confesses an affair. Why should she? You don't believe her shen she says she didn't even have one.


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## youaremetoo

What so I'm supposed to belive her?


She probably just wants to keep it going


----------



## Taxman

How about approaching the POS. Tell him you know everything and you want him to come clean, otherwise you will be calling his wife with your "evidence". This is a bluff that has worked for others in the past.


----------



## sokillme

youaremetoo said:


> What so I'm supposed to belive her?
> 
> 
> She probably just wants to keep it going


Exactly. You are at the point where you have to make a choice, follow your emotions and suffer, or kill your emotions and use logic. Killing your emotions (which can be done, anger is a good one to use to kill the others) will get you out of the trap you are in much faster. Holding on to them will keep you stuck. 

Its like a Chinese finger trap. 

Thouse who move through it with action and assertiveness do much better. Read and study up.


----------



## Thorburn

"Now the therapist says I need to just get over this and stop thinking about it or else we can't do therapy anymore. And that I can only talk to the therapist about it cuz my wife cries."

I am a therapist. The above statement makes no sense. Here you are on CWI laying your heart out to a bunch of strangers who are showing more compassion and empathy then your therapist.

I would have asked the therapist:
a. What am I suppose to get over? I don't know what I am facing and she has lied to me.
b. How am suppose to stop thinking about it? My wife will not give me what I need to move beyond this.
c. What gives you the right to tell me who I can talk to or what I can talk about? 

Find another therapist. This one is not a good fit for you. Your concerns are as valid as your wife crying.


----------



## youaremetoo

Yeah real shocker here.....she doesn't want a new one and fights me tooth and nail for this one. Tells me I need a valid reason for a new one. Told her I think she's against me. Not a good enough reason.

Therapist knows this is our real big issue. Could therapist be waiting for us to calm down about it to bring it back up?


----------



## browser

youaremetoo said:


> What so I'm supposed to belive her?
> 
> 
> She probably just wants to keep it going


That was not what I was saying. You were wondering why she doesn't just confess the affair to you, so that the two of you can just move forward with your lives once the truth is out there once and for all. 

What I WAS saying is she is not going to believe that you will stay with her if she admits the affair. In addition, she will face repercussions in the form of shame and disapproval from everyone who finds out. 

This is NOT about you believing her.

AT ALL.


----------



## Thorburn

It would be dishonest for the therapist to say she will end the sessions if you continue to think about it or don't get over it to only wait to bring it up again. Makes no sense. Your therapist made it clear (IMO) that if you think about it or don't get over it, she is done.

Frankly, I think it is unfair to you to not address your mistrust and thoughts about this matter. If it is your big issue then that needs to be addressed.

What are your goals and your wife's goals for therapy?

Seems to me that you want to deal with trust issues that you have concerning your wife.

BTW, you are not crazy. There are too many red flags to ignore.


----------



## youaremetoo

Well, me grilling her has probably prepared all the answers she needs for the therapist if the therapist pushes. So I don't think I will ever find the truth it's more about divorce, or move on knowing he could still be around.

I don't know how they build trust back up in therapy with a pathilogical liar. How am I supposed to ever trust her again?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Just continue counseling and stay with your wife. Otherwise, you need to calm down and quit sabotaging yourself. Yes, it sucks your trust is broken. It sucks your therapist is ignorant OR purposely covering for your wife. Still, if you run to her with every little idea, she is GOING to find ways to shut you down. 

Sorry, to me, he just moved out of full on creepy stalker range. He might be gross now, but you do not need to be there to add context for conversations with a stalker. This is another red flag for the inappropriate nature of their conversations. Please notice, the word NOW. He very well maybe a stalker and gross NOW, but I am saying he may be a triggered one that was a friend or more.

Oh and one question, who picked the therapist?


----------



## Hope1964

youaremetoo said:


> No idea here why she can't just admit after I keep nagging her about it.


 1) WHY are you nagging her?? And 2) why would she admit ANYthing?? You have no evidence.



youaremetoo said:


> I told her I would stay with her and not tell anyone and we can move on.


 Huh?? This is idiotic. Unless you were trying to fool her, in which case you have a LOT to learn.

Have you read this link? If not, DO.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739


----------



## Thor

Why are you ignoring all of the advice in this thread by those who've btdt? You've sabotaged every possible avenue to get whatever information may exist.

Since you say you'll stay with her no matter if she cheated, and you say she's a pathological liar, and you don't know how you can ever trust her, there is no reason for you to do any investigation whatsoever. If she cheated, you'd stay. You know she's untrustworthy.

So you either leave her because she is untrustworthy or you stay because it doesn't matter that she may have cheated. You don't need to know if she actually did cheat, do you? Either lying is a big enough fault to divorce over or it isn't. Her cheating is not relevant whatsoever, by your stated position.


----------



## jsmart

I'm sorry but this is obviously sexual PA. A man who's successful with women is not going to make the effort to be with your wife if it's just to be friends. 

This guy feeds her ego and she rewards him with no strings attached sex. It's been going on for so long that she's able to coldly compartmentalize. 

How is your sex life and affection levels? Are you getting cold vanilla duty sex? How's the affection? Do you passionately kiss or do you just get cold pecks?

You should use Dr Phone to retrieve the deleted text. Also get a VAR installed in her car. You'll have answers within a week. Start preparing yourself mentally for the possibility that this is much worse than you could ever have realized.


----------



## browser

Hope1964 said:


> Huh?? This is idiotic. Unless you were trying to fool her, in which case you have a LOT to learn.


It's not idiotic, he's desperate for the truth, and he's desperate to save his marriage and he's in a state of shock, so he's grabbing for straws. He probably doesn't even know what he'd do once he finds out for sure.


----------



## youaremetoo

So we have an appt with the psychologist soon. Then I have with the psychologist solo a little after the couples one.

I was going to ask her in front of the therapist how this guy went from a creepy stalker to someone she can have lunch with for a new job and tell him our address. Within only the course of a year by him. texting her on two occasions asking her to lunch. How does that translate to no longer stalker...and a ok guy? Then ask if he got our address from her resume well that is another stalking situation and what the therapist thinks of it all. Not really sure if I should mention this in the couples appt or the one solo. 

The best I feel I'll get out of her is that they went to lunch together a few times. She won't admit to an affair no matter what. So I don't even know if what I just said above will even be worth it. Looks like the only real choices I have is to stay in therapy and keep my eye out for anything weird and keep investigating. Because now she is all about me, taking almost every lunch with me, talking more, opening up, etc.

I mean she could say give me my own cel plan you don't need to look at my bills anymore if she wanted. And I'm not sure if she can carry on an affair through her work Email she works for the state same department as me(different buildings). And I have full access to her phone whenever she's not around. So I don't get how this affair could really go on. I have everything just about monitored.


----------



## TheTruthHurts

.


----------



## Lostinthought61

did she say she would take a polygraph?


----------



## 225985

youaremetoo said:


> She is a very sweet, kind, and nice person. She does try to make everyone happy.




I'd be happy too if she was grinding on me.


----------



## badmemory

youaremetoo said:


> Looks like the only real choices I have is to stay in therapy and keep my eye out for anything weird and keep investigating.


Seriously?

Have you even told her you'll no longer accept this contact?


----------



## weightlifter

Things are just not adding up. You are looking in the wrong direction... somehow. Kind of like when you think the sound is coming from directly in front but it actually directly behind. Its something but there are some oddities on whatever it is.


----------



## Hope1964

Are you even reading anything we're posting here??


----------



## youaremetoo

Now she's talking to me more about stuff...she's cheated in just about all of her relationships a lot of them the guys have kissed her but then people always walk in and interrupt.....whatever...lol...I'm going to lose my mind

She always plays the victim. She says I'm not forgiving her for the lies she's told me about this guy. I think it's kind of hard to do that with the context of the situation.


----------



## Evinrude58

You're dealing with a compulsive liar and serial cheater.

What's to forgive? It's just her being her. One doesn't need to forgive a snake for being a snake. Either you can accept her as a serial cheater who will do it again, and a compulsive liar, or you cannot accept her and need to move on.

In your case, this is pretty cut and dry.

You have all the data to make an informed decision.
good luck, I know it's hard to do the right thing sometimes.


----------



## Hope1964

Hope1964 said:


> Are you even reading anything we're posting here??


Guess not eh?


----------



## ABHale

OP you are jumping around all over the place with your post. 

Stop and take a breath. Calm down and talk with us. We can try and help but only if you slow down some and explain what is going on.


----------



## RWB

youaremetoo said:


> She is a very sweet, kind, and nice person. * She does try to make everyone happy*.


YAMT,

FME, the pleaser type personality is primed for affairs.


----------



## youaremetoo

OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


----------



## badmemory

youaremetoo said:


> OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


:slap::slap::slap:


----------



## Keke24

youaremetoo said:


> OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


Listen to yourself. You can't even cope with her cheating yet somehow you think you have the power to be a master manipulator? Why don't you manipulate your own self into actually dealing with this situation like a sane adult?


----------



## youaremetoo

What is a sane adult huh? Polygraph? Doesn't work.. bug her car? She doesn't talk to him.. Get deleted texts? First you have to root that erases the phone


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

youaremetoo said:


> She doesn't mind him doing all that stalking, but she said I am cyber stalking looking at our phone records
> 
> And she's not anxious, she actually tells me to not be anxious about things


What kind of idiot claims you're 'cyber stalking' when you're looking at your OWN damned phone records?

She's SUCH a lying sack.

You'll find out.

Instead of continually BURYING your head in the sand, BOOK THE POLY. How the hell do YOU know it won't work? Stop being paralyzed by fear and DO something for Christ's sakes.


----------



## Taxman

Book a polygraph, blindside her with it. In the meantime have divorce papers drawn up. If she fails the poly, serve her on the spot. It appears that you are dealing with a liar, and to protect yourself you will need to be aggressive.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

youaremetoo said:


> OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


God, you are so pathetic.

Stop your passive ridiculous behavior and SPROUT a set for God's sakes. Your wishy-washy outlook and constant fear of your own shadow is about as UNATTRACTIVE to a woman as it can *possibly* get. No woman respects a coward.

Find your damned spine and start running the SHOW - which begins with a *polygraph test* for her lying ass.


----------



## Jus260

youaremetoo said:


> Now she's talking to me more about stuff...she's cheated in just about all of her relationships a lot of them the guys have kissed her but then people always walk in and interrupt.....whatever...lol...I'm going to lose my mind
> 
> She always plays the victim. She says I'm not forgiving her for the lies she's told me about this guy. I think it's kind of hard to do that with the context of the situation.


You said she cheated in all of her relationships. You think she cheated now. What more do you need? You want to pretend to be a cuckold to gauge her reaction. If she says she's in to it, then what? Are you leaving? I'll never tell a guy what to be in to sexually if that's what you like. What is it that you are ultimately trying to do here?


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## Jus260

youaremetoo said:


> What is a sane adult huh? Polygraph? Doesn't work.. bug her car? She doesn't talk to him.. Get deleted texts? First you have to root that erases the phone


If you have to erase the phone to root it, then erase it. What's so important that it can't be backed up before the scan? That's like saying you need a biopsy for potential cancer there's that whole thing where you have to be cut with a scalpel.


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## youaremetoo

If you erase it all messages including deleted ones are forever gone.


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## Hope1964

She'sStillGotIt said:


> God, you are so pathetic.
> 
> Stop your passive ridiculous behavior and SPROUT a set for God's sakes. Your wishy-washy outlook and constant fear of your own shadow is about as UNATTRACTIVE to a woman as it can *possibly* get. No woman respects a coward.
> 
> Find your damned spine and start running the SHOW - which begins with a *polygraph test* for her lying ass.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## Thorburn

youaremetoo said:


> OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


You are grasping at straws. Your thinking process is skewed.

You are just going to throw another layer of issues on top of what is already going through your head. 

Your insecurity is driving you towards the irrational. STOP IT. Stop the irrational mind games. Stop letting her rent space in your head.


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## thenub

I'm leaning towards the last four words of the thread title. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## browser

youaremetoo said:


> OK, this might sound strange, but I'm thinking about getting her totally on my side and manipulating her a bit. Talk about how much I want a 3 sum or something and tell her that my fantasies are other guys doing stuff to her. Then be like I'm not going to judge you for cheating or anything just tell me about it. This should in theory get her comfortable with me and talking more to me. She would be more willing to tell me since she is telling me other dark stuff about her life now. But if she's not actually cheating it could make her want to...that could be a weird rabbit hole.


Now you're on to something!

It does sound strange. 

I cannot even begin to wrap my head around how your mind works and all the twisted logic you come up with.


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## TheTruthHurts

.


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## youaremetoo

Ok realistically here. Any therapist. What can they actually do at this point? She will continue to lie etc. They can't extract the truth from her. I can say that every session we are going to discuss it but that gets us nowhere. It looks like our goal is to rebuild trust, but yeah...


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## Hope1964

@youaremetoo, you are most assuredly NOT me too. My mind doesn't think in any way even remotely like yours I am glad to say.


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## bandit.45

youaremetoo said:


> What is a sane adult huh? Polygraph? Doesn't work.. bug her car? She doesn't talk to him.. Get deleted texts? First you have to root that erases the phone


To what end? To prove she's s cheat and liar?

You already know that. 

How old are you?


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## ConanHub

She'sStillGotIt said:


> God, you are so pathetic.
> 
> Stop your passive ridiculous behavior and SPROUT a set for God's sakes. Your wishy-washy outlook and constant fear of your own shadow is about as UNATTRACTIVE to a woman as it can *possibly* get. No woman respects a coward.
> 
> Find your damned spine and start running the SHOW - which begins with a *polygraph test* for her lying ass.


QFT!

Nice.


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## Chaparral

You don't have to root the phone with DrFone I don't believe..
It's a moot point though.
According to her she is a serial cheaters.
Google it, they can't stop cheating.


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## Lostinthought61

Youaremetoo,

I have had great advise here over and over again, instead you are so desperate to get to the truth of her lies, but are dealing a pathetically lier who can spin her web of deceit and distortion before you and you are powerless to figure this out....she will not crack because she has no incentive to do so....its self preservation.....listen to your gut, but i tell you right now, you can stay with her, and cuckold spouse, know that she will continue to see him behind your back....or you cut your loses and move on with your life...but you won't.


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## youaremetoo

Ok got new logs from when they actually worked together and they texted each other and called each other a ton before and after work. And sent pics dunno what they are though..this all keeps getting worse.


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## ButtPunch

youaremetoo said:


> Ok got new logs from when they actually worked together and they texted each other and called each other a ton before and after work. And sent pics dunno what they are though..this all keeps getting worse.


Sorry bro.....Trust your gut


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## Hope1964

youaremetoo said:


> Ok got new logs from when they actually worked together and they texted each other and called each other a ton before and after work. And sent pics dunno what they are though..this all keeps getting worse.


So what are you going to DO about this???


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## TRy

youaremetoo said:


> Ok got new logs from when they actually worked together and they texted each other and called each other a ton before and after work. And sent pics dunno what they are though..this all keeps getting worse.


 With this new info you must now look at her relationship with this guy, that had sexual harassment issues at work, and had a crush on her, as no longer just someone that she claimed to have only tolerated, but as someone that she liked. You must relook at everything that you know about them under this light. For one thing, this means that he is not a stalker. Also, this could mean that she may have been transferred after he left because of her relationship with him.


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## youaremetoo

I had the same idea, that's why she got transferred. Madness.


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## youaremetoo

My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it. She says that's what she would have done if this situation was reversed. I know trust is important, but this situation seems a little off to me. This is my first relationship so maybe I'm not being too trusting. She says her and the dude only talked about work stuff on phones before and after work and that they'd get each other breakfast too when they worked together. My friend says I'm just jealous and I should go to my own therapist, which I am going to now. I am not going to that marriage therapist anymore as she does nothing for us. She says she didn't want to discuss the situation any further because my wife might leave me.


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## eric1

That's just ridiculous. Trust is built on truth, which she has not given you.

If they were just friends then why was there a transfer? I have a lot of friends at work. I have never come close to getting transferred because of my friendship with them. What business owner doesn't want their employees becoming friends?


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## She'sStillGotIt

youaremetoo said:


> My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it. She says that's what she would have done if this situation was reversed.


LOL. Said every *remorseless cheater* to their FAR too *passive* betrayed spouse.



> This is my first relationship so maybe I'm not being too trusting.


And it won't be your last. You've aligned yourself with a remorseless lying cheater who doesn't give a rat's ass at ALL for your pain.

Just because this is your first real relationship doesn't mean you need to cower in the shadows while Miss Thang TELLS you how things are going to progress.

You're a GROWN man for God's sakes. Find your spine, find your voice, and get to the bottom of this bull**** once and for all.


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## Lostinthought61

wow...you gotta love the ultimatum tactic....she drew the line the sand......you better tuck away your balls, tell her "yes dear", suck it up and let her wear the pants in the family from now on....congratulations you are not a full blown cuckold husband. I say this because your actions have been weak and un-decisive....you wife will continue to contact him in front of you now and you are too weak to stop it......and your too weak to pull the divorce card. anything we say now will get you in trouble with the wife.


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## TAMAT

Youaremetoo,

You wrote... * I am not going to that marriage therapist anymore as she does nothing for us. She says she didn't want to discuss the situation any further because my wife might leave me.*

Ask your marriage therapist how many marriages she had and also if she has ever cheated on her husband. Also ask her if she is pro-marriage. It's also in their best interest not to have you recover or to only partially recover as that keeps the money coming in. 

Nothing keeps a marriage in partial recovery like a hidden and unconfessed affair.

Tamat


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## aine

youaremetoo said:


> My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it. She says that's what she would have done if this situation was reversed. I know trust is important, but this situation seems a little off to me. This is my first relationship so maybe I'm not being too trusting. She says her and the dude only talked about work stuff on phones before and after work and that they'd get each other breakfast too when they worked together. My friend says I'm just jealous and I should go to my own therapist, which I am going to now. I am not going to that marriage therapist anymore as she does nothing for us. She says she didn't want to discuss the situation any further because my wife might leave me.



Take off the love goggles please! It's like telling a gazelle to trust that the lion wont eat her! Your wife is a cheat and all cheaters lies, gaslight, rug sweep, trickle truth. I know you are shocked by the possibility of her cheating on you but this is why websites like TAM exist. Your gut was telling you all a long, believe yourself first!

1. Find your cajones
2. Go see a lawyer and draw up papers
3. Blow up his world and her world, expose to all family and friends
4. Do the 180 on her, for you, you need to find your self esteem and spine to stand up to her BS
5. Insist on a polygraph now
6. Insist on STD testing now/get STD tested yourself
7. Inform her that you are done with being cheated on, lied to and kick her ass out of the house


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## Noble1

Sounds like things are coming to fast for you at this point.

What may be helpful is to get away by yourself for a few days.

Whatever excuse you need/want to make.

Hole up somewhere and rage/cry/etc. BY YOURSELF.

No contact with anyone, especially "her".

Maybe it will help you think a bit clearer and you can see what kind of life you really want in the end.

Good luck.


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## scaredlion

So far, in my opinion, all you have is a bunch of conjectures, and nothing solid to back them up. If you keep throwing questions at her, eventually she is going to just shut you down and then the only thing left will be divorce. If that is what you are looking for then just divorce and cut out all the turmoil. If she is doing something then somewhere along the line she will mess up and leave some concrete evidence. It appears by your narrative she is getting close to calling it quits with you. Maybe you need to take a new tact with this situation. I wish you well.


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## TheRealMcCoy

youaremetoo said:


> My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it. She says that's what she would have done if this situation was reversed. I know trust is important, but this situation seems a little off to me. This is my first relationship so maybe I'm not being too trusting. She says her and the dude only talked about work stuff on phones before and after work and that they'd get each other breakfast too when they worked together. My friend says I'm just jealous and I should go to my own therapist, which I am going to now. I am not going to that marriage therapist anymore as she does nothing for us. She says she didn't want to discuss the situation any further because my wife might leave me.


Here's what you do my man. You need proof of her cheating? I'll get you proof. Step 1 is accepting everything she said in that paragraph I quoted above. "Sorry, I got a little crazy. It's just that you know how much I love you...kissy kissy". Let everything get back to normal. Then, the next time she goes out on her girls night, you have a PI ready to get video footage. Her annual "girls weekend" would have more damning evidence, but that is remote, right? 

Wait Real. How did you know she does all of this?



youaremetoo said:


> We meet at a club, she approached me.


The second part of that sentence was redundant. We know how it works when you continue with...



youaremetoo said:


> After a few weeks of dating we went to the club with a guy and a girl and my wife(gf at time) grinded hardcore on the guy in front of me. I asked her about it and she said it was cuz he got us in for free.



That sentence fascinates me in so many ways and on so many different levels. If we weed out MY issues and stick strictly with yours, we have to start with the hint of prostitution. And I don't just mean your wife paying for your date with a lap dance. I'm old and didn't club much when I was young, so this "grinding" thing passed me bye. But to an outside observer, I always tried to give it a non sexual benefit of the doubt. It's just an art form, right? Self expression. A girl does NOT just walk up to a guy and try to get him off in the middle of a dance floor, does she? (Short answer: I can guarantee it happens all the time).

So, we have you guys dating for "a few weeks". In that time, you've seen her pick up one guy and get pretty far with him (I'm talking about you. Did you hit third base?). Then three weeks later you see her have sex with another guy on a dance floor. Same dance floor she made enjoyable for YOU a few weeks back, right? 

How often does she go now? Have a PI ready with a cell phone with a good camera waiting next time. What? They closed down the old lounge in the Holiday Inn? Go to the one she trolls now with her married gal pals. I'll bet they're quite a pack.

She quit for a while after you got married. But after she got back in shape after the two kids, she ht it pretty hard again, didn't she?


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## TRy

youaremetoo said:


> My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it.


 When your wife says that you "should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened" and you "should have never looked any further into it", tell her that she should have just trusted you with telling you the full truth about everything that happened, so that you should not have felt the need to have looked any further into it.

QUESTION: How does a cheater say screw you?
ANSWER: They say "trust" me.


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## MJJEAN

So, you married a chronic liar who is also a serial cheater. Stop. Just stop. Stop the counseling, it's useless with a chronic liar. Stop the investigating, you already know she's a serial cheater who has had AT LEAST an EA and probably a PA since you've been married and who cheated on every previous partner she has had. You know all you need to know. Either file for divorce or firmly decide to look the other way for this affair and any others she has had or may have in the future. 

In other words, fish or cut bait.


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## youaremetoo

One of her old coworkers that worked there when they worked together still works there. Maybe I should take him aside and ask him what he saw between the two of them. I already kind of talked to him he said the dude was fired for not showing up all the time.


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## youaremetoo

One of her old coworkers that worked there when they worked together still works there. Maybe I should take him aside and ask him what he saw between the two of them. I already kind of talked to him he said the dude was fired for not showing up all the time.


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## Marc878

Run a deleted text recovery on her phone.


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## Evinrude58

She cheated on every guy she was with. She says trust her. Why? She's been nothing but deceitful.

You have found constant talking before and after work. They went out on lunch dates. They had lots of sex. 
She's giving you an ultimatum. Shut the hell up or I'll divorce you, basically.

She's a liar. What are you going to do?

Nothing. That's what. But own it.


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## Decorum

Man with boundaries to his wife. "I have a boundary circle around our marriage and relationship. Within that circle you have my trust, care, love, and support. I am at peace with my circle and it wont change. If you step out of the circle into what I consider risky or inappropriate behavior, you are on your own. Doing so will change the way I see you and that will change the fundamentals of our relationship. Do not come crying to me when the consequences of your actions bring your life crashing down around your ears."

"and do not ask me to "trust" you when you are out there, that is a magnitude of disregard and disrespect that is intolerable to me."

YAMT to his wife, "the actions I have uncovered are already outside that circle, I already see you differently now. Unless you take some timely action, (Honesty, openness, forthrightness) nothing will ever be the same for me."

Then you must act!


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## eric1

youaremetoo said:


> One of her old coworkers that worked there when they worked together still works there. Maybe I should take him aside and ask him what he saw between the two of them. I already kind of talked to him he said the dude was fired for not showing up all the time.


It's not worth doing this. Do not take risks for information that probably will not be valuable. You don't know if this guy has incentive to lie (either because he doesn't like one or both, or because it's easier to go through life not saying anything) or if he'll run to your wife or this dude.

There are other methods at your disposal that you are not using. One is recovering deleted texts from her phone.


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## ABHale

youaremetoo said:


> My wife says I should just trust what she says that nothing ever happened and that I should have never looked any further into it. She says that's what she would have done if this situation was reversed. I know trust is important, but this situation seems a little off to me. This is my first relationship so maybe I'm not being too trusting. She says her and the dude only talked about work stuff on phones before and after work and that they'd get each other breakfast too when they worked together. My friend says I'm just jealous and I should go to my own therapist, which I am going to now. I am not going to that marriage therapist anymore as she does nothing for us. She says she didn't want to discuss the situation any further because my wife might leave me.



So, if your wife loves you, why might she leave you if the two of you talk about what happened?

Your wife is trying to sweep this under the rug. She is lying her azz off to you. She would be doing everything to fix this instead of telling you to get over it, its in the past. 

If she is willing to leave because she had a PA with the OM, show her the door.


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## youaremetoo

So yeah. Now she says their probably were some personal conversations....because logic would say so. But she swears nothing innappropriate. She can't remember conversations though cuz it wasn't important and it was 6 years ago that they worked together. She has called her best friend the one that told her to block him on FB a few times to tell me how it was when they all worked there together and that she doesn't think my wife did anything with this guy. But this girl keeps telling us that he was a creepy stalker who would show up to her house and other places that she would go to. I don't know why my wife keeps calling this friend to try and assure me nothing happened when everytime we talk to her she just throws out how crazy creepy this dude is. So why did my wife have zero issues with this dude, not tell me anything about him, try to get another job with or near him, and finally give him our address when he calls? Lots of weird stuff.


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## wmn1

youaremetoo said:


> So yeah. Now she says their probably were some personal conversations....because logic would say so. But she swears nothing innappropriate. She can't remember conversations though cuz it wasn't important and it was 6 years ago that they worked together. She has called her best friend the one that told her to block him on FB a few times to tell me how it was when they all worked there together and that she doesn't think my wife did anything with this guy. But this girl keeps telling us that he was a creepy stalker who would show up to her house and other places that she would go to. I don't know why my wife keeps calling this friend to try and assure me nothing happened when everytime we talk to her she just throws out how crazy creepy this dude is. So why did my wife have zero issues with this dude, not tell me anything about him, try to get another job with or near him, and finally give him our address when he calls? Lots of weird stuff.



the only weird thing is that you have been going through this for 6 weeks and still you refuse to risk it all to find the truth when deep down inside you know what happened.

It's your life, dude, not mine but I couldn't go on in this marriage with such uncertainty.

What is your gameplan ? What is your path forward ?

Do you even have one ?


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## youaremetoo

Just another update...we are still together.. and about 3 months ago I went through her phone and saw that he texted her through his work phone...saying that he just ate at her favorite fast food restaurant that just came to his town and that he was thinking of her. I took it to her and showed her she said that she didn't know who it was and she thought it was maybe someone she worked with since she said everyone knows she liked that restaurant and that she could've just deleted it. She asked who it was and then said to not talk to her anymore cuz her husband thinks she was cheating with him cuz he won't stop texting. He said oh I thought we were friends. And she saifd she has been out through hell. That was end of that. I called him and spoke to him. He denied it all and I just asked him a bunch of questions. We have now changed our phone numbers. I have also moved to a separate bank account, and she went kind of nuts after I did this.


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## Steve2.0

You keep approaching her with no real proof... a text about her restaurant??? thats going to blow the cheating chest open?

You seriously need to learn to hold your cards a little closer to your chest. You almost make it TOO easy for her to lie about it

Most cheaters would never admit to anything unless you had factual proof of sex.... So stop approaching with 'resturant' texts


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## GTdad

youaremetoo said:


> I have also moved to a separate bank account, and she went kind of nuts after I did this.


I'm not saying that you're doing the wrong thing here, because it could well be smart depending on your motivation and end-game. I'd be interested in hearing what those are in your case.


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## youaremetoo

About 4 months ago I had some flowers delivered to her work that cost a lot...I could be naive and exaggerating here but when her supervisor asked her why I got her flowers and that if I was in trouble she said no then he asked if she was in trouble she said no...and that her mouth gets her out of trouble cuz she is really good with her mouth....the joke was about giving oral. Right after I got her flowers. She told me she didn't want to tell me that cuz I would freak out. Well I said you could also get fired.


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## VermiciousKnid

youaremetoo said:


> About 4 months ago I had some flowers delivered to her work that cost a lot...I could be naive and exaggerating here but when her supervisor asked her why I got her flowers and that if I was in trouble she said no then he asked if she was in trouble she said no...and that her mouth gets her out of trouble cuz she is really good with her mouth....the joke was about giving oral. Right after I got her flowers. She told me she didn't want to tell me that cuz I would freak out. Well I said you could also get fired.


Why are you buying expensive flowers for a woman you suspect is cheating on you? Playing a little "pick me" dance are you? If you have real reason to believe she's cheating then you should be doing the exact opposite of sending her flowers.


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## TX-SC

Your wife sounds very flirty and it seems like she likes to take things to the edge, whether dancing and grinding, or making jokes. I don't know if she has really cheated, but she really needs to address her boundaries.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Noble1

What you should have done was to send the flower with no name except for "your special friend" and see if she thanked you for them.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Closing in on a year and you are still playing games. As my mom used to say "**** or get off the pot." Your wife KNOWS exactly who you are and doesn't care because she knows you'll complain, whine, beg and do everything possible to keep her happy.

Oh and that wasn't a joke, she was telling a truth, you want it to be a joke because you don't like the implication. In lay terms, she manipulates you with sex.


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## youaremetoo

Hey. I appreciate all of the feedback. It does seem that I am a pathetic person. I've never been in a relationship before or even lived alone and this is all I know. I was too eager and jumped into this relationship too quickly. I have come to this forum for advice from people who have been in relationships and who have experienced things of this nature. Obviously my wife has a lot of experience. I take the negative feedback as well that tells me I need to probably create some hardship in my life to grow more skin and to have a backbone. It appears that I have put myself below other people in society due to a birth defect and thought I wasn't good enough. This enables people to manipulate and control me, not giving me respect in return . So thank you everyone.


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## Sports Fan

It's important you take on board the feed back given here. It might not always be what you want to hear and some of it is harsh however they are realities to best help you.


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## threelittlestars

OMG...omg... what a tasteless *****. Good with her mouth... That is so unprofessional. OMG.


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## toucheturtle

Sorry to hear about your feelings.i was hurt in that manner.it was you know something is there but you can never seem to grasp it.my situation happen while I was in the hospital.my ex mother in law was watching my children for now ex and brought the children(4) back to our apartment and my daughter climbed threw the porch sliding glass door .my ex was on the floor and my daughter got an eye full.in the mean time mother in law was knocking on the front door demanding to get in .there were statements you are married and should not be doing that. Her partner jumped off 2nd floor door porch and started running .she called me at the hospital and gave a different story.i could hear mother in law in the background yelling.i did talk to my daughter and ask her what did she see that night later after I came home. My daughter said I saw a man run across the floor and pull up his pants.my ex lied to me even after I told her what my daughter said about the incident.i did get the full truth later threw home telephone calls later.i recorded them and my daughter was right.i would just take a break from your marriage till you get your head together


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## thedope

Ask her to take a polygraph or your filing for a divorce. I'm almost positive I've she cheated. I believe you already know His but choose denial because it's easier.


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## ABHale

youaremetoo said:


> About 4 months ago I had some flowers delivered to her work that cost a lot...I could be naive and exaggerating here but when her supervisor asked her why I got her flowers and that if I was in trouble she said no then he asked if she was in trouble she said no...and that her mouth gets her out of trouble cuz she is really good with her mouth....the joke was about giving oral. Right after I got her flowers. She told me she didn't want to tell me that cuz I would freak out. Well I said you could also get fired.


Why are you still with her again?


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## smokefire05

Holy crap that is a novel you wrote, so I didn't read it, can you reduce it to a few sentences please? I can help you with red flags but I don't want to read a giant novel.


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