# Are We Antagonistic and/or Jaded??



## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

After several threads over the last few days where the OP's are just so clearly resistant to what we are all telling them I got to wondering if we are pushing people into conflicts/confrontations that we shouldn't? I mean the script unfolds the same way every time. "My H/W is talking to OW/OM, is it appropriate - am I wrong??" And we all jump on - no you're not wrong, show them divorce papers ect. ect. ect. We all know how it goes. So we tell people they need to leave here and go proceed to blow their marriage apart. True in most cases the marriage is already in serious trouble any way, but it seems to me we tend to tell people to push it over the edge to see if it will bounce or shatter. So these people leave here, go confront their spouse with our words in their head and have to live with the consequences in real life while we continue on our merry internet way. I know that had my wife come here immediately after D Day and taken the advice that I know she would have gotten - hell that I'd have posted myself - it would not have necessarily been the most productive thing for us. She and I didn't vary much from the standard post D Day advice we give, but we did vary from it - all in leniency she gave me while I was trying to extract my head from my [email protected]@. 

Like most here I soooo want to help people avoid the scars that we all have now - betrayed or wayward - but I worry if we're not so jaded that we automatically take every situation to the worst case scenario and comment accordingly when in reality a more measured response would be more productive. 

Guess the last several threads have just frustrated me some. Back to session


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

some people are too scared to do what's needed and are frozen to take appropriate action

they'll either get there thru a long process of pure torture and limbo or simply have a miserable marriage


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Eh. I think we pretty muchonly advocate D when the cheating spouse had made it clear they aren't into ending the affair, is cake-eating, and is blatantly disrespecting the OP by crossing their boundaries. 

Also, we see this stuff daily. We acn see the car accident looming ahead in traffic way before they even get on the highway.

Now if the OPs spouse is receptive to no contact and stopping the crap behavior that got them in the situation, we tell them what the plan is: no contact, transparency, MC, honesty, trust but verify...

Antagonistic? Maybe. Jaded? Yep. But we are jaded with the knowledge of what the OP doesn't want to see/won't accept. 

Now pass me the bottle of Scotch and a ciggie... as I sit with my head cupped in one of my hands waiting for the next Thread Starter to come in with a little scroll in their hand and proceed to tell us their tale called The Script...


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## HappyAtLast (Jan 25, 2010)

Wonder how many new people that join TAM feel better after reading other people's stories and realizing that we're all in the same boat...or worse.
I think most people here are sincere and really want to help. Sometimes it's painful to read some stories, because it reminds me of what I went through, but that's why we're here..to hopefully offer constructive advice and make a difference in someone's life.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I do think so. lol. Although, it's not without valid reason.

People would PM me saying my husband was surely cheating, blah blah...but he wasn't. I asked once and dropped it. Whatever.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TG, to your credit, you didn't come in posting in the COPING WITH INFIDELITY section saying you found out hubby texting/sexting/fvcking another woman. Apples and oranges.

Most of the people who come here have the proof. We simply told you he was showing the signs and to rule it out. Standard protocol.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> Now pass me the bottle of Scotch and a ciggie...


 :smthumbup:


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

TG's buying!

:absolut: :toast:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> TG's buying!


Well, crap. Gotta wait until Tuesday then. Payday.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Antagonistic, yes. Jaded, yes. Justified, yes.
People are comming here for advice from people who have been there. It often times takes a firm hand to get them to pull their head out of their ass and see that they are the rule, not the exception. This is often verry hard to get through to people.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> TG, to your credit, you didn't come in posting in the COPING WITH INFIDELITY section saying you found out hubby texting/sexting/fvcking another woman. Apples and oranges.
> 
> Most of the people who come here have the proof. We simply told you he was showing the signs and to rule it out. Standard protocol.


Very true.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

If the WS is wanting the marriage I never advocate divorce. Like JB said though, if they are cake eating and the like well..... As far as the is my Wife/ husband cheating threads go it's a good bet that they already know they just want some one to tell them yes. It's the same, they are sexting, IMing, phone never leaves their side. We have all seen this and know what is happening. I always hope that it turns out to be nothing, but sadly we are usually right.


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

Although I am starting to believe that JB has a few phrases hotkeyed and just goes from post to post and throws them in. JK


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Oh noes. I've been found out.

JK.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

No that's lordmayhem out of a few word documents by his own admission....


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

LOL. It's not a bad idea either. Now if only I could figure out how to link my 'hotkeyed key phrases...'


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

No, absolutely not. Not even close. 

This is reality. The stats are outragous. Yes, the reality of the situation sucks. It sucks reading this crap day in and day out, its a continuous stabbing knife. The scabs of my own situation get peeled off over and over when I read these horrible stories... 

For the 1 in 1,000 (and honestly I dont even remember 1) times that the assumptions about someones cheating spouse are wrong there are 500 others that would have suffered needlessly and much longer had the people here decided to walk on egg shells and beat around the bush not wanting to be wrong about what is almost aways painfully obvious. Particularly to eyes that have been opened by this sh*t happening to them.

My take, f*ck that. This truth is hard to swallow, but the fact is if there is enough going on in your marriage that you were compelled to find this place and post your story and then the people here tell you what you fear is true, is in fact true.... listen. 

I am personally thankful for the people who had the balls to give it to me straight when I came here... I had enough denial, gaslighting and trying to convince myself it was something other than it was... Handholding and sympathy didnt help me cope. The truth did.

For that, when I come here... I come to return the gift that was given to me.. The cold hard truth.

Im not here to make friends, or deal with my own situation anymore. I have friends, and Im ok. Im personally here because someone was here for me once. I hope what I say saves someone alot of pain, and I hope the truth while painful helps give someone a real chance to save thier marriage or move on with their life.

I personally mean everything I said with great respect and heartfelt appreciation for the other people here that still come here trying to make a difference in someones life/marriage.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

I think plenty of people on here are both. Not saying they don't have good reason but, so many of the responses seem like cut and paste answers as opposed to individual responses. 

If I had done what the majority states to do on here my SO would have been jobless and we would have ultimately lost our house. We know the kind of people we are and I know we would not have stayed together if we had done what is generally stated to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

sigma- NO we are NOT antagonistic!! Screw you for asking!!*












*sarcasm obviously


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I think plenty of people on here are both. Not saying they don't have good reason but, so many of the responses seem like cut and paste answers as opposed to individual responses.
> 
> If I had done what the majority states to do on here my SO would have been jobless and we would have ultimately lost our house. We know the kind of people we are and I know we would not have stayed together if we had done what is generally stated to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


On the same note you should ask Shamwow where he would be had he not listened to the advice given. There is no one size fits all. This is advice and you need to take what you read here and what you know and may have left out of a post and use the knowlage to the best of your ability. The advice given here is probibly right somewhere about 90% of the time.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

uphillbattle said:


> On the same note you should ask Shamwow where he would be had he not listened to the advice given. There is no one size fits all. This is advice and you need to take what you read here and what you know and may have left out of a post and use the knowlage to the best of your ability. The advice given here is probibly right somewhere about 90% of the time.



That leaves a 10% percentage where it can be wrong. I basically said the same thing, there is no one size fits all for everyone's situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> That leaves a 10% percentage where it can be wrong. I basically said the same thing, there is no one size fits all for everyone's situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


and we certainly disagree on things too, just like in CB's thread about how he should handle stalker OM parked outside his house


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## uphillbattle (Aug 17, 2011)

If I where CB I would be in jail right now. No doubt in my mind.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

uphillbattle said:


> If I where CB I would be in jail right now. No doubt in my mind.


Same here.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Straight talk. Tough love. Many of these situations by the time they get to this forum are actually very desparate and they are asking if they are being insecure. Their gut is telling them they should be worried. What is wrong with them for feeling this way? Catching this stuff early is very important. The sooner the intervention the less destructive to the relationship.

I think in today's culture it is not trendy to be assertive and proactive. It seems to be about being passive and accepting of anything and everything the other person wants to do. Men are encouraged to repress any feelings of being protective of their relationship and to not question their spouses interactions with other men. They are so afraid of the controlling word. They would rather hand over thier wife to other men than be accused of being controlling.

The posters are being told that they are controlling, insecure and jealous and that marriage is all about trust. But their marriage has no real boundaries. They should accept what amounts to being married to someone who is living single.

Soooo, there is little point of being PC about this stuff. It is not helpful to the posters. Telling someone that it will be ok when you know it will not is being disengenuous and frankly cruel.

Getting a sense of urgency across to some folks is key. They tell us that their wife is spending a lot of time over other men's homes and going to movies and out drinking with another man. Sometimes we have to go throigh layers of bluntness. Like, why are you ok with your wife dating other men? Then that does not get across to them and someone is more blunt. Why are you ok with your wife banging other men? This seems rude. But rude is what is actually going on. They want to believe that their wife is over there getting advice about thier marriage. W T F


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Straight talk. Tough love. Many of these situations by the time they get to this forum are actually very desparate and they are asking if they are being insecure. Their gut is telling them they should be worried. What is wrong with them for feeling this way? Catching this stuff early is very important. The sooner the intervention the less destructive to the relationship.
> 
> I think in today's culture it is not trendy to be assertive and proactive. It seems to be about being passive and accepting of anything and everything the other person wants to do. Men are encouraged to repress any feelings of being protective of their relationship and to not question their spouses interactions with other men. They are so afraid of the controlling word. They would rather hand over thier wife to other men than be accused of being controlling.
> 
> ...


Nailed it.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> That leaves a 10% percentage where it can be wrong. I basically said the same thing, there is no one size fits all for everyone's situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


So that is the beauty of this forum. People who come here need help. They get various points of view. Ultimately they have to be an adult and take the information in and decide what to do based on that information. It is all good. Life is not black and white.

We make our comments based on the trickle of information given and our own experiences. 

Some folks too often need to be hit by a 2x4 to stand up for themselves.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

uphillbattle said:


> If I where CB I would be in jail right now. No doubt in my mind.


Oh you know it.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> So that is the beauty of this forum. People who come here need help. They get various points of view. Ultimately they have to be an adult and take the information in and decide what to do based on that information. It is all good. Life is not black and white.
> 
> We make our comments based on the trickle of information given and our own experiences.
> 
> Some folks need to be hit by a 2x4 to stand up for themselves.




That's all well and good but, the repeated use of the word "doormat" to describe posters is ridiculous. People are already in a bad place as is when the get here...strangers calling them names like that is NOT the least bit helpful...IMO.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> sigma- NO we are NOT antagonistic!! Screw you for asking!!*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Made me laugh so hard I damn near fell out of my chair!!!:rofl::rofl:


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> I think plenty of people on here are both. Not saying they don't have good reason but, so many of the responses seem like cut and paste answers as opposed to individual responses.
> 
> If I had done what the majority states to do on here my SO would have been jobless and we would have ultimately lost our house. We know the kind of people we are and I know we would not have stayed together if we had done what is generally stated to do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When you happen upon a train wreck you do what you can do. Not all train wrecks are the same. But you still try to triage and you focus is on priorities. 

In our case we are trying to help folks save their dignity and hopefully their marriage. I confess, that jobs and homes and other things to me are secondary and I state as much. If you are in an affair with a co-worker do what I did .... go find another job. Shame on you for having the affair. Life has consequences.
I am defined very much by my career .... but I have had many jobs and only one wife. Priorities.

I think the advice on this forum is about giving folks a chance.
I don't agree with everyone but by in large I am satisfied that most regulars are sincerely interested in helping. You hate to see the same mistakes again and again.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> That's all well and good but, the repeated use of the word "doormat" to describe posters is ridiculous. People are already in a bad place as is when the get here...strangers calling them names like that is NOT the least bit helpful...IMO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I respectfully disagree. 

I am a guy. When a man falls down, I pick him up and tell him to rub some dirt on it. I talk man to man. If the rhetoric that comes from the individual is that of a doormat they should get straight talk about it. When I make that comment I see that person as a brother. It comes from the heart. Doormat is what many of these folks have become. It gets to the point.

I think telling folks who are not standing up for themselves to stop being a doormat is a expression of sincere guidance. This is generally used when someone is already being severely disrespected and needs to come out of the daze they are in and realize what is really going on. Doormats blame themselves all the time and get mistreated. Doormat is powerful. As things go this is pretty tame though.

Again they can choose to listen to whom ever they wish.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

I agree with what's been posted for sure - guess I'm just a little fatigued this week. It does suck to see the same thing over and over and over but the chance to really help even one person is worth it. Scott1973 and UGAdawg really got to me for some reason this week. To catch it that early on and be able to really prevent a disaster and then have them appear to fall victim to not understanding what they are facing and not believing us when we tell them - it's frustrating. I swear if I could reach through this computer, grab some posters by the shoulders and shake some sense into them I would - but they still wouldn't really get it. 

I'll take one of those scotches - no cig for me though.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> I am a guy. When a man falls down, I pick him up and tell him to rub some dirt in it. I talk man to man. If the rhetoric that comes from the individual is that of a doormat they should get straight talk about it. When I make that comment I see that person as a brother. It comes from the heart. Doormat is what many of these folks have become. It gets to the point.
> 
> ...


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I think you can become jaded about anything that you see day in and day out or have lived through.

I'm pretty jaded about where I work (for 11 years)...most people are, but they have this weird sympathy for the area I work in (inner city los angeles). I don't. I'm pretty jaded about it and really wish it would fall off the face of the earth.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I think you can become jaded about anything that you see day in and day out or have lived through.
> 
> I'm pretty jaded about where I work (for 11 years)...most people are, but they have this weird sympathy for the area I work in (inner city los angeles). I don't. I'm pretty jaded about it and really wish it would *fall off the face of the earth*.


Remember where you are that girl - careful what you wish for...


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> I agree with what's been posted for sure - guess I'm just a little fatigued this week. It does suck to see the same thing over and over and over but the chance to really help even one person is worth it. Scott1973 and UGAdawg really got to me for some reason this week. To catch it that early on and be able to really prevent a disaster and then have them appear to fall victim to not understanding what they are facing and not believing us when we tell them - it's frustrating. I swear if I could reach through this computer, grab some posters by the shoulders and shake some sense into them I would - but they still wouldn't really get it.
> 
> I'll take one of those scotches - no cig for me though.


I get this way.

I used to teach a lot. And the funny thing was that no matter how much effort I gave over the years the new class of folks always needed to hear pretty much the same stuff.

So why would we change our advice. Consistency is a good thing. We should change what we say when we learn thing new. I have learned a great deal from this forum. I don;t think we should chnage what we say because we are tired of the same old thing and that we are bored. 

I actually see exeperienced posters tag teaming the threads. Meaning I might make a comment knowing that someone else will build on that and then another and so on. A lot of times I am just agreeing with what is being said. Which is good for the OP to see.


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## StGeorge (Sep 12, 2011)

I think from what has been answered to my own problem and seen the responses that others give to other posters that everyone's heart is in the right place. 

As it is a public forum and i haven't seen anyone claim. 

_I am a certified councellor and this is my professional opinion_

I'd say that people just need to take the advice given them as just that.....advice. 

They should ultimately decided how to follow that advice themselves. 

I took what everyone here told me to do and because of the circumstances that happened at the time I was going to follow that advice, I called an audible:

I used what was told to me and modified it to fit my situation. was it successful? I believe it was. Only time will tell. I still am not able to control all of what may happen as a result but I believe I gave it the right amount of force at the right time. 

We'll see.

I don't see any reason for anyone here to change their advice unless you are planning on making it a career. 

Then perhaps a bedside manner may need to be developed by some. 

The poster should also expect to get the response they get based on the situation of the person responding. 

A WS should not expect to get a warm welcome from a BS. Though it does happen.

Nor should a BS expect to receive a pleasant reply from a WS if they make statements which the WS finds are not true, etc.

"Once a cheater, always a cheater" comes time mind at the moment. 

We are all human and each one of us is uniquely different.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

All we give is advice. What the poster decides to do with our thoughts is up to them and their situation. I do feel some WSs need to be shocked into reality and it's possible the word "divorce" will do it. On d-day when I told my H I wanted a divorce, he said it was like waking up to a nightmare. He was finally forced to see that his actions had consequences. It was not a bluff on my part and he knows it.

So, all we can do is tell new posters what worked for us and what we've seen happen before. Not all new posters want to take or believe the advice we offer. I would've been the first in line to say "my H would never cheat" and yet he did. When faced with enough evidence, a BS will finally come out of their own fog and realize their nightmare is reality.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

"My family says I'm in denial but they're totally full if s^it."


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

pidge70 said:


> That's all well and good but, the repeated use of the word "doormat" to describe posters is ridiculous. People are already in a bad place as is when the get here...strangers calling them names like that is NOT the least bit helpful...IMO.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I also have a distaste for the "shaming" techniques or questioning a person's manhood, etc. I get what that poster is trying to do but I don't think it works in most cases and the OP gets defensive and mistrusts the poster calling him names. There are better ways to help a person see.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> I respectfully disagree.
> 
> I am a guy. When a man falls down, I pick him up and tell him to rub some dirt on it. I talk man to man. If the rhetoric that comes from the individual is that of a doormat they should get straight talk about it. When I make that comment I see that person as a brother. It comes from the heart. Doormat is what many of these folks have become. It gets to the point.
> 
> ...



If you tell tell a buddy to pick himself up and rub some dirt in it then he will likely respond the way you intended. The buddy knows you, trusts you and feels that your advice is sincere due to history you share and that you have his best interests at heart.
If you tell a stranger the same thing he will get defensive and turn his ire towards you instead of the person who is really hurting them. That alpha reaction you want to elicit is now directed at the person calling him names or questioning his manhood.

We both want the same reaction Entropy, I just think there are better ways to call a person to action. While it's certainly true that neither of our methods work 100% of the time anyways (I even wonder if it is the majority of the time), I think the shaming techniques only works with certain personality types and people who come here asking for help are mostly not that type or else they would have dealt with the situation already in a firm manner.


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## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

HappyAtLast said:


> Wonder how many new people that join TAM feel better after reading other people's stories and realizing that we're all in the same boat...or worse.
> I think most people here are sincere and really want to help. Sometimes it's painful to read some stories, because it reminds me of what I went through, but that's why we're here..to hopefully offer constructive advice and make a difference in someone's life.


I myself found it very helpful to be able to relate to the other people here. I only wish I had found this site closer to Dday instead of a year after. I still remember the debilitating pain, the lies I told to my children's faces to explain my sudden outburst of tears. I wish there was someone to theoretically slap me upside the head and help me shake off my "pain fog".

I think that deep down inside we all know what we really should be doing when we find out our spouse is cheating, however we are unable to think and see things clearly due to our pain and investment into the relationship. 

I never saw any advice as antagonistic or jaded, no matter how harsh. All I saw was wisdom and experience. I wept knowing I was not alone, it was a comforting sadness.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Almostrecovered said:


> If you tell tell a buddy to pick himself up and rub some dirt in it then he will likely respond the way you intended. The buddy knows you, trusts you and feels that your advice is sincere due to history you share and that you have his best interests at heart.
> If you tell a stranger the same thing he will get defensive and turn his ire towards you instead of the person who is really hurting them. That alpha reaction you want to elicit is now directed at the person calling him names or questioning his manhood.
> 
> We both want the same reaction Entropy, I just think there are better ways to call a person to action. While it's certainly true that neither of our methods work 100% of the time anyways (I even wonder if it is the majority of the time), I think the shaming techniques only works with certain personality types and people who come here asking for help are mostly not that type or else they would have dealt with the situation already in a firm manner.


I totally agree. Different things work for different people. There is essentially a team of people on the forum, during the inital thread posts we can see that some people respond to different stimulae. There is not a one size fits all. We therefore find out what they respond to. So I say it is all good. Good cop, bad cop ... whatever, as long as one person can reach them it works. I am not oblivious to your point. I think it is good if we are more thoughtful before we pull that trigger on posts. This is heart wrencing stuff.

We also have different experiences. My views are from someone who has been stupid enough to be in an EA. As you know I am not proud of that. Buit it is another view point. I am biased towards quick action to intervene because that saved my marriage. I think it can work in many instances. Not saying all. But they need to hear that view. They also need to hear other views. Your view are certainly very valuable specifically IMHO. Some folks however tend to be enablers that are not helpful at all. That is just an opinion. The OP then gets to choose.

I do think that most of the folks on the forum want the same thing. To help.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

I just think it's sad that a coping with infidelity forum has to exist. But.... it happens , a lot. So with that said I'm glad it's here. If it wasn't I don't know how things would have turned out. My 1st instinct was to keep it all to myself, a man doesn't let others know that his woman sought what she needed elsewhere. ( that was my line of thinking at the time) Misery loves company. LOL I have gotten alot from here so I just try to give back.


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## ing (Mar 26, 2011)

I sometimes feel like I am doing triage . Due to my location i often intercept the 1-5 am just found out people. 

Breathe... Breathe.. 


I haven't been on much the last week or so. I have been taking a bit of a break.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

I do see many posts to seemingly innocuous OP's that immediately advise divorcing before any real detail has been given.

I fully expect to see a thread go like this one day...

OP
" my husband takes like 10 whole minutes to take out the trash. What's up with that?"

Reply
"he's cheating!!
Put a VAR in the trash can and a wireless camera in the mailbox and you'll find he's giving the neighbor quickies behind the hibiscus!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

tacoma said:


> I do see many posts to seemingly innocuous OP's that immediately advise divorcing before any real detail has been given.
> 
> I fully expect to see a thread go like this one day...
> 
> ...



:rofl:...sad but, true sometimes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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