# Guys opinions on getting married



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm fairly new to these boards but am finding a lot of interesting concepts and ideas floating about, so I wanted to get some guys opinions.

I've been with my OH for 3.5 years, we have two young children but aren't married.

I had always been quite laid back about marriage until a while into our relationship when I found out I was pregnant. Conversely he had spoken about wanting us to get married then seemed to lose some of his interest once I expressed an interest.

I broached the subject a LOT over the time since then; it always seemed to go the same, he wanted to but had x/y/z reason to not be pinned down to saying anything definite in terms of making plans. In retrospect I brought it up more than I liked; I can define this precisely by the way he'd said he wanted to wait because he wanted to make the proposal special, then it ended up being not at all, and I worry this is because I badgered him into it- but then think he wouldn't have asked if he didn't mean it- the crux of the issue I guess for me.

I posted previously and got some great advice; my question for the guys is how would you feel if your girlfriend were the one to instigate marriage plans? I mean, we both know we want to get married, he's "proposed" of sorts and tbh although we talk about getting married, we're I suppose unofficially engaged but with no ring or anything.

A good friend of his asked us last weekend if we were getting married then, I said ask OH, he replied, oh, maybe at the end of the next year. His response when I talk to him about it and say I worry we'll get to 50/60/70 and still not be married, is that he can see how I would think that, but we will get married. and that's it. Should I take the bull by the horns? I sense from things he's said that this would impinge on his male pride somewhat but I'm at a loss as to what else to do!


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Personally the idea of marriage I've always hated, I would have been content with keeping everything about us away from all the papers. To be honest I don't even know why I agreed to it, I was stressed, in a panic, and drunk...

A happy marriage is something that's rather rare nowadays, perhaps he feels that it's better not to get married to maintain your strong relationship.


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## MsLonely (Sep 23, 2010)

Marriage is a combination of families where kids grow up, is also a combination of joy & pain.
If a person doesn't want any kids, better stay as bf & gf. So things can be less complicated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> I'm fairly new to these boards but am finding a lot of interesting concepts and ideas floating about, so I wanted to get some guys opinions.
> 
> I've been with my OH for 3.5 years, we have two young children but aren't married.
> 
> ...


You likely need to let him know a drop dead date.

Then let him decide what to do about it.

Then don't mention it again.

The trick is, you have to mean it.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

You just look at him seriously and say "you're not ever going to marry me are you". It's not a question, just a statement.

Then you start working out and dressing better. Change your Facebook status from "It's Complicated" (aka "I'm wasting my time") to "Single". Start meeting some new people.

You're not actually married, so it's not like you're in a serious committed relationship. >:-D

And like Conrad said above, you have to mean it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Atholk said:


> You just look at him seriously and say "you're not ever going to marry me are you". It's not a question, just a statement.
> 
> Then you start working out and dressing better. Change your Facebook status from "It's Complicated" (aka "I'm wasting my time") to "Single". Start meeting some new people.
> 
> ...


"Meaning it" requires so much self-respect and maturity that it becomes the line so many are unwilling to cross.


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## Atholk (Jul 25, 2009)

Conrad said:


> "Meaning it" requires so much self-respect and maturity that it becomes the line so many are unwilling to cross.


And they are pair bonded from the sex as well. Walking away carries the same stress as trying to give up a drug addiction. It's all a Dopamine thing.

Which is why most people just can't leave a serious relationship to go to simply no relationship at all. Most have a outside person involved that can supply the emotional high from a new relationship to bridge the pain from breaking the old one.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

I have to agree and disagree with Atholk.

For me making and acting on decisions to separate & divorce are hard even w/o children from either spouse in the house. My children from my first marriage are over 35, my second wife did not have any before we met, these days she has forgotten a dr. told her she was infertile, but she blames me for her not having kids. ???? Since her memory was never the best, this seems to be one more forgotten bit. 

I recently left this marriage of 20+ years because she became increasingly distant these past years, work became the focus of her life, I was about #5 on her list. She was reluctant to face her own fears, clamped down on them, clamped down on her self and libido.

The event that pushed me out the door was not an a EA or PA, it was the death of a friend. His death brought home how fragile life is, and how unhappy we'd become, how a warm loving marriage had turned into roommates who rarely spoke, how cold our marital bed has been these last years. 

Carpe diem is my intent - I moved west and am enjoying life. 



Atholk said:


> And they are pair bonded from the sex as well. Walking away carries the same stress as trying to give up a drug addiction. It's all a Dopamine thing.
> 
> Which is why most people just can't leave a serious relationship to go to simply no relationship at all. Most have a outside person involved that can supply the emotional high from a new relationship to bridge the pain from breaking the old one.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Atholk said:


> You just look at him seriously and say "you're not ever going to marry me are you". It's not a question, just a statement.
> 
> Then you start working out and dressing better. Change your Facebook status from "It's Complicated" (aka "I'm wasting my time") to "Single". Start meeting some new people.
> 
> ...


I was hoping for a ring for my Christmas present. I didn't get one. We discussed getting engaged before our first child was born and he's 21 months now. He's always said he couldn't afford a ring... yet he can afford to spend money on his hobby, and going out to meet friends for drinks. 

He must've had some sixth sense about it (either that or he's been on here!) because out of the blue yesterday he blurted out that he was going to get me a ring, he hadn't forgotten, he just needed to do some extra work to get the money.

You know, it's odd because in every other aspect he's a pretty straight down the line kinda guy, he says it how it is. Yet I can't seem to shake this feeling that he's just not that into the idea, despite him saying he is. And it is a dealbreaker for me.

It might be because he's said thinks it's not the right time, or we don't have enough money, or he sees it as something for in the future, or we have a lot on our plates right now with a baby/young children, or he thinks we should move house first, or let's deal with whatever is going on at the time before we can think about it, or it's the last thing on his mind right now- he's said all of these and more at different times.

I'm confused because he's the kinda guy who I would expect to say if he didn't want to, least of all ask if he didn't want to, yet it doesn't come anywhere up his list of priorities.

I said in my previous thread that I joked the other week that I'd phoned the register office to arrange a date to get married... It didn't get the warmest or most interested of reactions!


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

MsLonely said:


> Marriage is a combination of families where kids grow up, is also a combination of joy & pain.
> If a person doesn't want any kids, better stay as bf & gf. So things can be less complicated.


This is such nonsense. What about a childfree couple? There ARE couples who get married and only want a family which consists of the two of them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mrs.G (Nov 20, 2010)

tobio said:


> I was hoping for a ring for my Christmas present. I didn't get one. We discussed getting engaged before our first child was born and he's 21 months now. He's always said he couldn't afford a ring... yet he can afford to spend money on his hobby, and going out to meet friends for drinks.
> 
> He must've had some sixth sense about it (either that or he's been on here!) because out of the blue yesterday he blurted out that he was going to get me a ring, he hadn't forgotten, he just needed to do some extra work to get the money.
> 
> ...


From what you have shared, your intuition is correct. He doesn't truly want to marry you. It's more like he wants to do the right thing, since you have his kids. Never give a man more commitment than he gives you. Why would you bless him with babies, if he won't commit? My cousins all had children while they were shacking up and their men either left or still won't propose after 10+ years.
Commitment phobes can denounce marriage as a piece of paper all they want; the importance we place on weddings is far greater than just a document.
I think that you know in your heart the reason he's stalling. 
My husband had commitment issues while we were dating. I simply focused less on my love for him and more on what I wanted. I informed him that I would NOT give a man exclusivity, if the man was waffling. It was only fair. I certainly wasn't going to wait and pine for my then boyfriend! I left him because I needed to move on to find someone who wanted a commitment.
After I left, a few months later, my husband asked me to move in. We were engaged that New Years.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drdrfor (Dec 20, 2010)

I was hoping for a ring for my Christmas present.[/QUOTE said:


> If you have kids and you both share the responsibilities then marriage is the sane thing with apiece of paper added. But if he shies away from getting the paper with flimsy reasons, stop havingg kids with hima nd find someone who will take the responsibility.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Mrs.G said:


> From what you have shared, your intuition is correct. He doesn't truly want to marry you. It's more like he wants to do the right thing, since you have his kids. Never give a man more commitment than he gives you. Why would you bless him with babies, if he won't commit? My cousins all had children while they were shacking up and their men either left or still won't propose after 10+ years.
> Commitment phobes can denounce marriage as a piece of paper all they want; the importance we place on weddings is far greater than just a document.
> I think that you know in your heart the reason he's stalling.
> My husband had commitment issues while we were dating. I simply focused less on my love for him and more on what I wanted. I informed him that I would NOT give a man exclusivity, if the man was waffling. It was only fair. I certainly wasn't going to wait and pine for my then boyfriend! I left him because I needed to move on to find someone who wanted a commitment.
> ...


I admire how you handled that. The trouble is, I don't have much by way of bargaining chips left now! And I have two children with him, and two to whom he is stepfather who have had a lot of upheaval in their lives already; any decision I make I need to be completely convinced about.




drdrfor said:


> *If you have kids and you both share the responsibilities then marriage is the sane thing with apiece of paper added.* But if he shies away from getting the paper with flimsy reasons, stop havingg kids with hima nd find someone who will take the responsibility.


This first part, I don't have that take on it. Whilst sharing childcare responsibilities is a heck of a commitment, it's not the same as us committing to _each other_ IYSWIM?

The latter part? Well hindsight is a great thing *sigh*


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

>>I'm confused because he's the kinda guy who I would expect to say if he didn't want to, least of all ask if he didn't want to, yet it doesn't come anywhere up his list of priorities.<<

On this issue, he's being a "nice guy". Doesn't want to hurt you with the truth.

You owe it to yourself - and to him - to get the truth.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> >>I'm confused because he's the kinda guy who I would expect to say if he didn't want to, least of all ask if he didn't want to, yet it doesn't come anywhere up his list of priorities.<<
> 
> On this issue, he's being a "nice guy". Doesn't want to hurt you with the truth.
> 
> You owe it to yourself - and to him - to get the truth.


Not sure what to do with this idea, I've asked him, he says he does... Any more delving and he says the stuff about not seeing it as something for "right now", the babies keep us busy, once they're older... Yet he insists he does want to but can't qualify it any more than just wanting to... I suppose I'm looking for even just a "I can't imagine life without you"...

I guess if I really did make a date then I'd know from his reaction his true feelings.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You certainly would.

And, that little fearful voice inside is the one you must eventually deal with.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

Because you have kids, it may be just plain common sense to get married--just a "go to the courthouse" type of thing, and do it.

Here's why: imagine he has a car accident. Worst case scenario: he dies, and you have NO legal right to manage his affairs, etc. The chaos this would create in your life--and the life of the kids--is pretty fearsome. 

Imagine he does not die, but is incapacitated. Same thing. Legal right to make decisions for him, etc., will go to his next of kin (his parents, perhaps). You and the kids have to wait til they sort out everything to get support, etc. Even if they were 100% willing, your lack of control falls victim to their grief, confusion, whatever.

And, of course, if you are the victim rather than him, he gets stuck in limbo. 

Now, by getting a legal power of attorney and those sorts of things for each other, you can probably resolve a lot of this--i'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure, but I'm guessing it would help a LOT. This is a much bigger commitment upfront of time and resources (hiring an attorney to get it done RIGHT, for example) than just getting married quietly. If that is the alternative he prefers, however, then insist on it. One way or another, you both need legal protection and legal rights to manage each other's affairs if the situation should arise. Because children are involved, it is irresponsible not to--and you should BOTH have wills, for the same reason.

Getting married solves everything but the will issue, and that is important for your kids if you should both die. So, one way or another, you need to take care of that, married or not. But unmarried, there will be a lot more paperwork the attorney will need to do for you.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> You certainly would.
> 
> And, that little fearful voice inside is the one you must eventually deal with.


Well he may have shed some light on things earlier when we were chatting.

My sister got married a year ago. He said he knew how much I liked it, and that was completely not what he wanted, the whole big day. He is somewhat infamous amongst our group of friends because he turned down both his best friend's invitations to be their best man because he could not face the best man speech part, having everyone looking at him. He said if he's being honest, he's been putting it off because of this idea of having everyone looking at him.

He also turned things around, saying I was asking him did he want to get married and why, but I never said why I wanted to get married to him. So he put me on the spot there.

I'm still not 100% convinced of his feelings though; the conversation was going great until he asked me more about why I was interested in talking more about it. I explained that it was important to me that I was getting married to someone who wanted to get married too. I threw in that I knew of men who otherwise weren't bothered about getting married, but that they did so because they knew how important it was to their partner, and that while that was a noble act, I'd hate to think he wasn't otherwise bothered. He basically said that if I hadn't brought up the subject of marriage a while ago, he probably wouldn't have brought it up.

When I explained as well that after my previous relationship and coming out of that with two kids, I'd decided that next time I wanted to do things the "traditional" way around but it obviously hadn't panned out like that, he took that to mean I only wanted to get married because we'd had kids.

Funny thing is, he keeps bringing up the name of another guy, who had an infatuation for me earlier on in our relationship before we had our first child together. This guy was a great guy, definitely a nice guy, who wanted to uproot from where he lived and take care of me and my older kids. My OH brought his name up again, as he does do periodically, and asked what I'd say if he came back on the scene and asked me to marry him. I said I'd say no, because I didn't feel "that" way about the guy like I do about him.

So I'm not sure where that leaves me... The thing that stands out is that he wouldn't have brought it up if I hadn't, that really upsets me. He insists he *does* want to get married, but going by what he's said, that means he's only wanting to because *I* want to, right?


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Yesterday he said he was getting sick and tired of me not believing anything he said. Cue me backing off, doing a lot of thinking and apologised this morning.

He said if he had more money, he'd be buying me an engagement ring as we speak, but he doesn't, so he'll need to do more work to get the money. 

He said to clarify, that he wouldn't have brought up marriage at the time I did, if our first child hadn't come along, but he would have brought it up, probably later along the line.

He isn't really interested in talking about organising a wedding though, for that I get the jokey "ooooh no" comments which come out every time marriage gets discussed- and I mean _every_ time- funny at first but downright annoying after a while!

So I am really not sure where to go from here, I guess I wait to see if a ring is produced and start talking about setting a date- I'd hate to tread on his male pride but I can't see him doing that, sometimes I can't work out if the trouble is him wanting to, or his apathy in actually doing anything about it?

In his eyes he's said he wants to, and that should be enough for me, he doesn't factor in all the excuses he's made over the last couple of years which make me have that doubt, or the fact he hasn't actually DONE anything to show he wants to ger married, talk is cheap and all that...


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## Zammo (Aug 9, 2010)

Here's a nice little litmus test for women in a committed relationship (without kids) with a man.

Would you stay with him even if he wanted to remain committed without getting married?

If yes, the man is more important than the marriage and he chose wisely.

If no, the marriage is more important than the man and he chose poorly.

Kids, of course, change everything. Also add the caveat regarding _mutual _ beliefs regarding marriage. And yes, this test can be applied to men.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Atholk said:


> And they are pair bonded from the sex as well. Walking away carries the same stress as trying to give up a drug addiction. It's all a Dopamine thing.
> 
> Which is why most people just can't leave a serious relationship to go to simply no relationship at all. Most have a outside person involved that can supply the emotional high from a new relationship to bridge the pain from breaking the old one.


Ya think? Do you say "My mitochondria need glucose?" when you are tired and hungry too?


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Zammo said:


> Here's a nice little litmus test for women in a committed relationship (without kids) with a man.
> 
> Would you stay with him even if he wanted to remain committed without getting married?
> 
> ...


Hmm. Not sure I agree with that initial part but being of the camp where kids change everything, it doesn't apply to me.

As regards mutual beliefs regarding marriage, well, if I could find out what his are, that would be a help. What I got yesterday was a very enigmatic, "people have different reasons for getting married" and "two people will never talk about marriage and have exactly the same reasons for wanting to get married." Talk about qualifying your statements... Also that just because he doesn't talk about it much, it doesn't mean he doesn't ever think about it... and that was following him saying earlier that it's never really on his mind?

I never thought the subject of getting married would be so difficult, I thought one asked the other, they say yes (assuming here!) they're engaged and then start making arrangements to get married, then live as happily as people can ever after. Not a backwards-and-forwards dance. I started off happily talking about it, now I feel quite insecure which I hate.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Tobio,
Might I ask you a question? Why do you want to get married? I understand you have kids. We had a child prior to getting married and looking back, we should have stayed unmarried.
For me, the stress of being pulled in all directions planning this event by my parents, his parents and him left alot of resentment on both sides. Looking back, we were already living together and blissfully happy with our new son. We shouldn't have tried to "fix" what wasn't broken.


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## janesmith (Nov 29, 2010)

okay....real talk here. If he wanted to marry you he would have already. Its a simple as a trip down to the courthouse. They ways and wherefores dont matter as much at this point. What it appears is that he does know is that he likes living with you and the kids. Next year maybe not so much and its really less complicated to leave, at least legally if your not legally married.

you think you have no options so thats how your acting. Geesh, he could keep you hanging on forever without ever having committed to you in a way that you value. I guess you have to decide what you really want and stick to your decision no matter what he does.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Brennan said:


> Tobio,
> Might I ask you a question? Why do you want to get married? .


I love this guy to bits. He's the one for me, I've never felt like this about anyone, he's the one I want to grow old with. 

Marriage to me is the ultimate commitment, to say to each other and the world that we are committing to spending the rest of our lives together and he is the one I want to do that with.



janesmith said:


> okay....real talk here. If he wanted to marry you he would have already. Its a simple as a trip down to the courthouse. They ways and wherefores dont matter as much at this point. What it appears is that he does know is that he likes living with you and the kids. Next year maybe not so much and its really less complicated to leave, at least legally if your not legally married.
> 
> you think you have no options so thats how your acting. Geesh, he could keep you hanging on forever without ever having committed to you in a way that you value. I guess you have to decide what you really want and stick to your decision no matter what he does.


Yes. As I said, it's a dealbreaker for me. He knows that. At this point I'm going to see if an engagement ring appears, I know he has the opportunity of plenty of overtime any given weekend come the New Year, just not sure how long is realistic, I mean he knows what rings I like and I don't have expensive tastes. Really it's him going to the effort of doing it and what the ring symbolises that matters to me. Of course after that comes making plans...


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## Blue Moon (Sep 7, 2009)

I've developed a firm belief that more than anything, a man knows when he's serious enough about a woman to marry her. Since marriage means forsaking all others (ie, turning down the buffet of women that outnumber us in the world because he's found the one). Men also generally become more attractive as they age, which grows the list of women who may bat the eyelashes. I got married when I was 23 and meant it. Rest assured that if there was any doubt in my mind, I wouldn't be so quick to tie the knot. We simply don't have an "in-between" on this subject, so you really can't convince him to marry you until and unless he's ready and means it.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Blue Moon said:


> I've developed a firm belief that more than anything, a man knows when he's serious enough about a woman to marry her. Since marriage means forsaking all others (ie, turning down the buffet of women that outnumber us in the world because he's found the one). Men also generally become more attractive as they age, which grows the list of women who may bat the eyelashes. I got married when I was 23 and meant it. Rest assured that if there was any doubt in my mind, I wouldn't be so quick to tie the knot. We simply don't have an "in-between" on this subject, so you really can't convince him to marry you until and unless he's ready and means it.


I don't want to "convince" him to marry me- I want him to do it because he wants to!

I get what you are saying though. I'm just confused, and it seems the more me and him talk about it, the more confused I get!

He says I seem to ignore all the positive things he says about it and focus on negative things. He doesn't or can't understand it when I explain I feel insecure because of things he has said that lead me to believe he isn't sure about getting married. It's like a scattering of good words is supposed to cancel out the excuses for putting things off that he's produced in the past.

I suppose ultimately I worry that either a) he'll string things along, producing more reasons why we can't think about getting married just yet, and we'll end up 10/20 years down the line still "engaged", or b) we will get married then down the line he'll throw at me that he never really wanted to, he just did it because it was what I wanted.

So from what I've read and digested, can I safely conclude that a woman will be in no doubt if a man is wanting to get married (as per the above)? 

It has been suggested to me that I should buy my own ring but this was a HUGE no-no when I mentioned it to him.

Yup I'm definitely going round in circles here. Looks like it's a case of "wait it out" and see.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

For how long?


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Well, there's no easy way to "calculate" a good amount of time, so taking into account I know it is fairly easy for him to get overtime most, if not all weekends, for one or both days, and that one weekend day of overtime could bring him in a little less than half his weekly wage, and the ring we talked about is just under half of two weeks wages, then I figure taking into account family responsibilities (time and money), six months is more than generous I reckon.

If nothing has materialised by then, then I shall gracefully go my own way. He knows it's a dealbreaker for me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> Well, there's no easy way to "calculate" a good amount of time, so taking into account I know it is fairly easy for him to get overtime most, if not all weekends, for one or both days, and that one weekend day of overtime could bring him in a little less than half his weekly wage, and the ring we talked about is just under half of two weeks wages, then I figure taking into account family responsibilities (time and money), six months is more than generous I reckon.
> 
> If nothing has materialised by then, then I shall gracefully go my own way. He knows it's a dealbreaker for me.


Make it clear.

But, you HAVE to mean it.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Make it clear.
> 
> But, you HAVE to mean it.


I should tell him?

I thought that might put pressure on, I wanted to avoid that? As a guy you think it'd be better to spell it out?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> I should tell him?
> 
> I thought that might put pressure on, I wanted to avoid that? As a guy you think it'd be better to spell it out?


Yes, tell him.

But, make sure that you mean it.

Nothing would be worse than telling him - having him do nothing about it - and keeping the status quo.

Actions - and inactions - have consequences.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Conrad said:


> Yes, tell him.
> 
> But, make sure that you mean it.
> 
> ...


Yup. I wouldn't stick around after saying that and having no response.

I'm worried though that telling him is me putting pressure on, and he'll do it because he doesn't want me to leave, rather than because he wants to marry me IYSWIM?

Then again I've left it without saying anything and he hasn't done anything, so... 

It's kinda typical of him though, he has the desire to do a lot of things but is somewhat "lethargic" in finding the get-up-and-go to put those plans into action, and this is another one of those things *shrugs*


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> Yup. I wouldn't stick around after saying that and having no response.
> 
> I'm worried though that telling him is me putting pressure on, and he'll do it because he doesn't want me to leave, rather than because he wants to marry me IYSWIM?
> 
> ...


Then the path is clear - if you have the courage to walk the walk.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I got to say after reflecting...

The amount of people who have said to me (and I include the majority as being guys in this), that if he REALLY wanted to marry me, he would have made it happen already, has made me think I may be flogging a dead horse. I had a recollection of him saying more than once what difference would it make to get married, his friends who are married say it's no different... 

Then a few months later he's proclaiming of course he wants to get married and can't understand why I'm confused as to his true intentions

I'm feeling rather doubtful at the moment after framing it in those terms. That and I asked him casually earlier if he'd got any overtime arranged and he said no. I can feel myself getting resentful at the thought of doing stuff for him I'd usually do as the stay at home partner, thinking that all the while I'm making his sandwiches for work, washing his laundry and whatnot, as well as living together and acting as half of a couple, he has no incentive to move things forward.

I had debated mentioning the deadline, as I was concerned, as I mentioned above, that he would feel pressured into taking action rather than because he had come to that conclusion on his own.

After some thinking, I have revised that. He is out at the moment but when he comes back later, I will say about making plans within six months and my outlook, and leave it at that after that. We'll have been together four years in six months, live together and have two children together, and tbh if by then he can't have gotten it together to plan to get married, then he either doesn't WANT to, or can't find the get-up-and-go to arrange something so important to me, botgh of which are not acceptable to me.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

tobio said:


> I got to say after reflecting...
> 
> The amount of people who have said to me (and I include the majority as being guys in this), that if he REALLY wanted to marry me, he would have made it happen already, has made me think I may be flogging a dead horse. I had a recollection of him saying more than once what difference would it make to get married, his friends who are married say it's no different...
> 
> ...


That sounds spot-on.

You have so much invested here that you don't wish to walk away without letting him know the stakes.

Of course, that's not the "ideal", but life rarely delivers "ideals".

I think this is the best option you have.


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## loren (Sep 13, 2010)

Zammo said:


> If yes, the man is more important than the marriage and he chose wisely.
> 
> If no, the marriage is more important than the man and he chose poorly.


I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement. When will you understand it's not about wanting 'the ring' over 'the man'? It's about wanting to be with someone who wants to marry you, over someone who doesn't. The OP has bore this man children, and taken care of him for how many years – and he “made a poor choice”? Get a grip.

Can I run a litmus test by you? "If the woman is more important than the desire to remain non-committal, she chose wisely... If the desire to remain non-committal is more important than the woman, she chose poorly"

Relationships run both ways...


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