# Fiancee's past is bothering me, over-reacting?



## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

My fiancee and I are in our early 30's and are doing well, happy together and in love. Everything was going as smooth as silk until a conversation we had the other night. When we first got together and had the talk about previous partners, she had told me that she was a virgin until 25, had only slept with one of her ex's that she was in a 3 year relationship with, that she felt obligated to and that it was not good or very frequent. That was all fine since I was in the same situation. Neither of us have had oral sex and we think it is a huge deal and are saving that for marriage, which is awesome and means a lot to me. My problem is that last week we were talking about virgins and she kept saying how a lot of them do other stuff in place of sex, so even if a girl says she is a virgin that just means she uses her hand or mouth to please her boyfriend. I told her I didn't think that was necessarily true since I knew and dated some virgins prior to her and we did not do any of that stuff. She kept insisting on her point of view and finally I just said, "well look at you, you had boyfriends and didn't sleep with them and you didn't use your hands on every one of them did you?". She gave me this look, like "duh", I was surprised and then asked, well how many guys did you that for, she told me she did that with 5 of her boyfriends and I was pretty shocked. I'm starting to feel better about it but I was wondering if this is normal? I never thought I would have to worry about that kind of thing, that if someone says they didn't have sex with all of their ex's that it wasn't an automatic indication that they did heavy petting instead. Am I overreacting by being upset over this? Are handjobs nothing to stress over? I'm glad it wasn't worse, that she didn't use her mouth or have full on sex, I guess I'm just upset that she touched that many guys in the past and never mentioned it in our previous conversations.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

Only you can decide.

I couldn't have cared less about any of my partner's sexual past except for one extremely important thing: sexual abuse as a child. That requires healing, and some never do.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Myself, what my wifee did in her past doesn't bother me because it was her past. She can tell me about it or not, its up to her.

For me, what I did in my past is in my past. I can tell her in detail or not so much, doesn't matter.

If being pure and virgins until you're married is important to you, and your wife to be, then she shouldn't of had sex after only dating that guy for 3 years and not oral or hand jobs either.

Sex is sex, no matter how you slice it. Whether its oral, hands, foot jobs, anal, breasts, or PIV (penis in vagina), sex is sex and you technically aren't a virgin.

Would of it made a difference if your wife to be had full sex with all her bf's before meeting you and getting married?

Only downside to waiting before you get married to have sex, is what if you aren't sexually compatible? What if she is LD and you are HD? What if you like adventurous sex and she only likes vanilla sex? What if you like toys, oils, talk dirty, anal and she doesn't like this? What if it turns out that she isn't into sex much because she waiting so long?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Its called the past for a reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

_"Would of it made a difference if your wife to be had full sex with all her bf's before meeting you and getting married?

Only downside to waiting before you get married to have sex, is what if you aren't sexually compatible? What if she is LD and you are HD? What if you like adventurous sex and she only likes vanilla sex? What if you like toys, oils, talk dirty, anal and she doesn't like this? "_

Yeah, it would have made a difference if she had full sex with them. Everyone talks about sexual compatibility, to me part of that is number of partners, if there's too big of a difference, I usually think it's a bad sign and may be too much to get over, depending on the person of course, I realize some people don't care but it is an important factor to me. And I view things on a scale, to me hand stuff is not as intimate as intercourse which is not as intimate as oral, so that is why I think it's easier to get over "just hands". For the second part, we have talked about what we would like to do and try in bed together and I consider myself very lucky that we will be experiencing some of those things for the first time together. But I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy and I guess sex just isn't that important to me, I'd like to regularly have it sure but I don't think either of us will be interested in toys, anal or the more provocative stuff, we're kinda vanilla that way .


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

How old are you jama? Interests change over the years. Have you had these conversations with your fiance? What would your reaction be in a year after marriage and your wife wants to get a vibrator?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dollystanford (Mar 14, 2012)

no-one can tell you how you should or shouldn't feel about it - that's up to you

but if you're expecting a woman in her early 30s to have had so little sexual experience then I think you're kidding yourself to be honest


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

Dollystanford said:


> no-one can tell you how you should or shouldn't feel about it - that's up to you
> 
> but if you're expecting a woman in her early 30s to have had so little sexual experience then I think you're kidding yourself to be honest



Totally agree. :iagree::iagree:


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

richie33 said:


> How old are you jama? Interests change over the years. Have you had these conversations with your fiance? What would your reaction be in a year after marriage and your wife wants to get a vibrator?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm 32. If she really wanted to I'd get one for her but she's pretty conservative, saying she would only do oral for her husband and even then, she's not sure how often if she doesn't enjoy it. Doesn't come off as a freak in the sheets to me. She said that with her other boyfriends she only did hand stuff because they wanted sex and she didn't want to go that far but also didn't want to deny them any enjoyment, she said it was basically a chore and she wasn't enthusiastic about it. I'm assuming if she had any wild sex fetishes she would have explored them with her other boyfriends.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

jama said:


> _"Would of it made a difference if your wife to be had full sex with all her bf's before meeting you and getting married?
> 
> Only downside to waiting before you get married to have sex, is what if you aren't sexually compatible? What if she is LD and you are HD? What if you like adventurous sex and she only likes vanilla sex? What if you like toys, oils, talk dirty, anal and she doesn't like this? "_
> 
> Yeah, it would have made a difference if she had full sex with them. Everyone talks about sexual compatibility, to me part of that is number of partners, if there's too big of a difference, I usually think it's a bad sign and may be too much to get over, depending on the person of course, I realize some people don't care but it is an important factor to me. And I view things on a scale, to me hand stuff is not as intimate as intercourse which is not as intimate as oral, so that is why I think it's easier to get over "just hands". For the second part, we have talked about what we would like to do and try in bed together and I consider myself very lucky that we will be experiencing some of those things for the first time together. But I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy and I guess sex just isn't that important to me, I'd like to regularly have it sure but I don't think either of us will be interested in toys, anal or the more provocative stuff, we're kinda vanilla that way .



If my wife told me she gave her bf lots or oral, anal, feet, PIV before they split up, that wouldn't make me freak out and not marry her. We'd both get checked for STD's first and then everything is a new chapter and life together when we got married. And since we both have some sexual experiences, we won't be bad in bed.

I agree, waiting until you're married before having sex would be ideal. You'd both be your first's right? But if the sexual compatibility isn't there, almost a waste of time?


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

Dollystanford said:


> no-one can tell you how you should or shouldn't feel about it - that's up to you
> 
> but if you're expecting a woman in her early 30s to have had so little sexual experience then I think you're kidding yourself to be honest


I trust her, she's the most honest person I've ever met, sex was a big deal to her, she was raised Christian, she actually regrets having intercourse but said she didn't think of hand stuff as a big deal, but now she sees that it can be. Believe it or not there are women over the age of 25 who are not very experienced and are waiting for marriage, I dated one that was 28 I believe and didn't do anything besides kiss, at least not with me.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

See, I believe in Christ as well "Christian" even though I don't consider myself worthy to be called that. But I had a HD before and after that.

It's great that you can trust her but that still doesn't guarantee that you guys will be sexually compatible.

If they've waited to the age of 25 or 28 and are still virgins, that can back fire because they won't desire sex much. They're used to it you see.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> See, I believe in Christ as well "Christian" even though I don't consider myself worthy to be called that. But I had a HD before and after that.
> 
> It's great that you can trust her but that still doesn't guarantee that you guys will be sexually compatible.
> 
> If they've waited to the age of 25 or 28 and are still virgins, that can back fire because they won't desire sex much. They're used to it you see.


Yeah, we were both raised in traditional Christian families and were taught abstinence, we both failed and lost our virginity to someone else but I guess they don't always tell you everything that is not okay to do, so maybe that's why she never thought of heavy petting as a big deal. I guess being raised that way, it made me want a virgin or close to it and since our convo, she doesn't seem as close to the ideal as she used to but I think I can get over it, just was wondering what the common take on this stuff was.

And yeah, I never thought about the "Virgin backfire" as you put it. But thinking back to some of the women I dated, it took a while just to get a closed mouth kiss, so it's very possible that they're just asexual or not interested in sex at all. I think my fiancee is a good balance, she wants it and has some sexual experience, she just also would like to wait until we're married or closer to the the wedding day before engaging in it.


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## AniaR (Feb 9, 2013)

This is 2013 and you are wondering about your fiance's past handjobs?

Let her go. She'd be better off without you.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

AniaR said:


> This is 2013 and you are wondering about your fiance's past handjobs?
> 
> Let her go. She'd be better off without you.


I love this argument. What difference does the year make? If someone is traditional, they're just supposed to say "screw it, it's 2013, I have no right to want someone who is conservative and traditional like me when it comes to sex". Not everyone has the same views regarding sex, no matter what year it is.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jama said:


> My fiancee and I are in our early 30's and are doing well, happy together and in love. Everything was going as smooth as silk until a conversation we had the other night. When we first got together and had the talk about previous partners, *she had told me that she was a virgin until 25, had only slept with one of her ex's that she was in a 3 year relationship with, that she felt obligated to and that it was not good or very frequent. *
> 
> That was all fine since I was in the same situation. *Neither of us have had oral sex and we think it is a huge deal and are saving that for marriage, which is awesome and means a lot to me*. *My problem is that last week we were talking about virgins and she kept saying how a lot of them do other stuff in place of sex, so even if a girl says she is a virgin that just means she uses her hand or mouth to please her boyfriend.*
> 
> ...


I pretty much had the mindset of your fiance, and if that made me a DIRTY HORNY virgin ... I'll accept that. Given our story of trouble with my hymen after marriage (Doctor verified).... I am not going to say I wasn't one. 

One blessing here you may not realize is THIS... or so I would think this way.....your fiance obviously has a decent sex drive.. think about it... if she could even manage to NOT touch and be touched in some ways ALL OF THOSE YEARS...... As a man I would seriously question her sex drive....I would be terrified she is LOW DRIVE / NO DRIVE... or too conservatively religious...unromantic / no touchy feely... This is the last thing a husband wants ....

That would be far TOO MUCH restraint - I know I couldn't have done it...but yet...I strongly believed in waiting for 1 MAN... for life....I saw "INTERCOURSE" as the fusion, the "becoming of ONE"... something so beautiful it can create LIFE itself .. and this should not be undertaken until after the vows... it was something NEW to bring to our union, and if a child resulted.. a pure blessing. 

I have only been with my husband - But I pretty much know had I had other Boyfriends before him... I would have mutually masterbated them... my personal boundary was ALWAYS "Penis in Vagina" ...and I required an emotional connection / Romance/ feeling he could be *the one *..my forever... or I would have never been comfortable going below the belt ...

We personally never had oral sex before marriage...though if I could go back in time, I might have done this too... 

Obviously....everyone looks at this differently , and has their own personal lines drawn in the sand..... Some may feel given how far we went (the heavy petting) that >> what is wrong with you >> why not GO ALL THE WAY [email protected]#$ 
My Answer would go something like this....this allowed our emotional connection to grow and kept us from going stark raving MAD with lust...I seen no point in near dying to touch each other...then going home taking a cold shower or masterbating as soon as I hit the bedroom thinking of him. 

Yet... in my psyche/ beliefs, the romantic in me... It meant something very special to wait , reserve full out "Making love" for the one I will call my husband someday. 

HIS thinking is just about the same in this.. he respected me for waiting - for the Making Love, his penetration....but was sure thrilled I didn't want a "hands off" relationship.... I met him at 15 & we dated for years... If I had THAT MUCH restraint...it just would have been very telling... like I was a NUN or something.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

I don't know, when it comes down to it, it is whatever you feel comfortable with. Given the context of your backgrounds, it doesn't seem unreasonable that she would have engaged in heavy petting or everything except intercourse, believed that wasn't crossing boundaries and thought it wasn't relevant enough to talk about ... but it isn't my place to decide if you should be comfortable with it.

Early on when I was dating I pretty much believed in "don't ask, don't tell". I don't really care how many partners she had or what she did with them; it isn't any of my business. What was important was how we connected. Right now, I don't think sexual history is completely irrelevant so it is something I would want to talk about. At my age, I would expect her to have had many sexual experiences and again I wouldn't care how many partners she had or what she did with them. What is relevant is if certain behaviors were revealed. For example, if she had a history of frequenting certain websites looking for sexual encounters or spent the last year going to bars every weekend and taking home strangers. That might indicate that our values are different. It isn't my place to judge that behavior but it might indicate future problems in our relationship ... can she be faithful, for example. On the other extreme, I might be concerned if she relatively few sexual experiences or a lack of variety in her experiences (that couldn't be explained by religious views, etc.) because that may indicate a low interest in sex and if true, it would be a compatibility issue. Sexual history isn't completely irrelevant when determining compatibility. It sounds to me like the two of you have a healthy view on discussing these things.


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## AniaR (Feb 9, 2013)

jama said:


> I love this argument. What difference does the year make?


Are you kidding?


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

AniaR said:


> Are you kidding?


I have to agree with OP. What difference does the year make? He is looking for someone who is compatible with his views of sexuality, not my view, your view or whatever our culture currently believes is acceptable.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

My son once came to me with a similar worry. She had told him she'd been with "one guy" before. He later found out different. I told him to "get over it," and it was before him, and it was her business. As a general rule, in at least my experience, women will at least HALVE their sexual experiences when asked. If she says she's been with five men, count on at least 10. If she says ten, think twenty. If she admits to "just once" on a one night stand, think at least double that. So freakin' what? Does it have a thing to do with "the price of tea in China"?

It's our own damn fault they can't be truthful about it. They (women) know FROM EXPERIENCE that men can be not only complete hypocrits about this, but also insecure, insensitive, and downright azzholes about this. And it cracks me up. All these "stud" guys, bragging about all the women they had sex with...well, hotrod, do you really think that's just because you're such a stud, or maybe it's just because ALL humans just like to have sex?

It is JUST SEX. It's not a big deal. Sex with someone you care for can be a HUGE DEAL, but sex, in and of itself, is so much of "nothing big" in the scheme of things. It's just SEX. Assuming she wasn't a prostitute that took hundreds of guys in her, or a cheating **** that couldn't settle for any one man at a time, WHO CARES?!!!!

I don't even know my W's "number". Never thought to ask. Don't care. She's amazing, and the number of guys she did, or did not sleep with before me, has not a thing to do with how amazing I think she is.

So many more important things to be concerned with. Like...I don't know...will she curse in front of my mother? Does she continually fart in her sleep? Will she screw my buddy when my back is turned, empty my bank account, or run off with my child? Or is she a controlling, insecure closet psycho? If it's a "no" to the above, I could sincerely care less if she did 5, 10, or 30 guys before me.

Yeah, I suppose, when I was young, dumb, and insecure, such things as her "number" or what she may have done with other guys mattered I guess. As a fairly old fart of 48 who has been around a while, I can tell you THAT is the LEAST of my worries when it comes to concerns about a female partner now. In fact, I'd say I'm a little more wary of the ones who HAVEN'T "been around the block" a few times than I am the ones who have.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

CuddleBug said:


> Sex is sex, no matter how you slice it. Whether its oral, hands, foot jobs, anal, breasts, or PIV (penis in vagina), sex is sex and you technically aren't a virgin.


 Yeah...this is the big debate... isn't it. Explained below ... 

We all look through different lenses- when it comes to sexuality...

What does Technically mean exactly ? Physically a girl can be classified as a Virgin...what is the Test.... an intact Hymen, Bible speaks of blood on the sheets ... Not that anyone cares... but just giving a little history here....then some women are born without hymens... so the test is invalid...

But PURITY is another thing...I wouldn't call these young girls PURE...untouched...would many of us want to be THAT pure... I know I am not one of those... it would have sucked the life out of having a boyfriend ! 

But I'll never see NOT going "ALL the way" (for various reasons / emotional given what it means to the woman & chance of birth control failing) equally on par with going all the way...before ...which is like "nesting", being prepared for children. 




> Sex - Virginity
> 
> *Medieval Transformation of Virgin*
> 
> ...





> Would of it made a difference if your wife to be had full sex with all her bf's before meeting you and getting married?


 See, this WOULD have mattered to my husband.. we've talked about this.. I broke up with him a short time, he KNEW I would never go all the way with another... this was comforting to him during that time. 



> Only downside to waiting before you get married to have sex, is what if you aren't sexually compatible? What if she is LD and you are HD? What if you like adventurous sex and she only likes vanilla sex? What if you like toys, oils, talk dirty, anal and she doesn't like this? What if it turns out that she isn't into sex much because she waiting so long?


 I agree with everything said here....it is a RISK... another reason I feel touching each other is a GOOD thing, it reveals much about your sex drive ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

donny64 said:


> *It is JUST SEX. It's not a big deal.* Sex with someone you care for can be a HUGE DEAL,* but sex, in and of itself, is so much of "nothing big" in the scheme of things. It's just SEX.* Assuming she wasn't a prostitute that took hundreds of guys in her, or a cheating **** that couldn't settle for any one man at a time, WHO CARES?!!!!


 Oh Donny64...I really have enjoyed so many of your posts in the past...not that you give a rat's a$$..... but on this... I want you to realize NOT everyone feels this way.. It is NOT just SEX for many of us.. .....just as it means LITTLE to you in the scheme of life... does not mean others feel this way.....

I know you are an articulate Poster here...please try to understand this , respect it ...even IF it's NOT your personal view... it is demeaning to the OP to "downplay" his feelings with insecure comments ...suggesting he may be immature... because he feels strongly on the act ...over those who don't hold it in the same Light.....

Please take a moment & read this thread (below) & get a handle on the various views (there are 6 explained)..... It is rather irritating FOR ME even...when others come with this viewpoint ...it's like they have no inkling to how strongly WE feel.. in these matters... they trample it even... 

You clearly hold the "*PLAIN SEX VIEW*" as acceptable...Pleasure for the sake of pleasure... some of us do not. This OP does not... I think this should be respected also... just as we can respect and not judge you for wanting a woman of great experience - as you feel this makes her a better lover... to each their own. 

It is , however, very very important to be hooked and matched with another who shares similar sexual views and can find acceptance with that...after all, they may be raising children someday.. and that could get real murky...



And not all women lie & "half" their premarital partners either.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

My husband and I never talked or will talk about our past with our exes ever. We only discuss our life together.

We've both been divorced when we met. I was in my 20's, he in his 30's. we have a very successful marriage.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jama said:


> Yeah, it would have made a difference if she had full sex with them. Everyone talks about sexual compatibility, to me part of that is number of partners, if there's too big of a difference, I usually think it's a bad sign and may be too much to get over, depending on the person of course,* I realize some people don't care but it is an important factor to me*.
> 
> *And I view things on a scale, to me hand stuff is not as intimate as intercourse which is not as intimate as oral, so that is why I think it's easier to get over "just hands".*
> 
> For the second part, we have talked about what we would like to do and try in bed together *and I consider myself very lucky that we will be experiencing some of those things for the first time together.* But I'm an old-fashioned kind of guy and I guess sex just isn't that important to me, I'd like to regularly have it sure but I don't think either of us will be interested in toys, anal or the more provocative stuff, we're kinda vanilla that way .


Me & mine can very much relate to your feelings here.....we, too, were both cut from the more "old fashioned" cloth...just a part of who we are... this is a rarity these days, and nothing wrong with it... We never cared for toys either ... Anal ...so NOT interested ....

We only did 2 positions for 19 yrs...(looking back, I regret this and feel we should have explored more)...but he was just such a Romantic sensual Lover.....it's always been about the emotional connection (and this worked for me, I was always satisfied).. we've never gotten bored....sex is somehow new every morning and just as beautiful as the day before...

Yet...IF I could do it all over again ...I so wish I had some great books at my bedside in our early years...would have helped me overcome some of the inhibitions I carried...had a little too much "good girl" thinking going on.....so we could have spiced & explored more so...new positions/ places/ enticing lingerie/ a little role play / photo shoots/ some romantic porn (I realize you may be against this) / some hand cuffs.... it's just GREAT FUN! 

*1. *  Sheet Music: Uncovering the Secrets of Sexual Intimacy in Marriage 

Next 2 written by Ian Kerner... a Sex Therapist... 

*2.* Passionista: The Empowered Woman's Guide to Pleasuring a Man: 

*3.* She Comes First: The Thinking Man's Guide to Pleasuring a Woman: 

*4.* The Complete Idiot's Guide to Amazing Sex: 

I think that is wonderful you & she is communicating openly about ...in preparation...open up your fantasies as well... Your wedding night won't be the cherry on top experience you may have in your head ...but still....very blessed if you get to experience so much of these 1sts together.


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## Tall Average Guy (Jul 26, 2011)

jama said:


> Yeah, we were both raised in traditional Christian families and were taught abstinence, we both failed and lost our virginity to someone else but I guess they don't always tell you everything that is not okay to do, *so maybe that's why she never thought of heavy petting as a big deal.* I guess being raised that way, it made me want a virgin or close to it and since our convo, she doesn't seem as close to the ideal as she used to but I think I can get over it, just was wondering what the common take on this stuff was.


One thing you should do is use this as a opportunity to discuss boundaries. Taken by itself, this language is troubling for a relationship, as it could be seen as a license to do certain things with others. I don't think either of you are planning that now, but use it as an initial example, then discuss what the two of you think about interactions with others. Certainly a HJ is not appropriate, but what about hugs, or personal communications. 

Talk through what you both think is appropriate to avoid assumptions (which both of you made here).


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

I really think you should consider letting this woman go. You're not just waiting, you seem extremely out of touch with the realities of human sexuality.

There's one thing to wait. My wife and I waited, and for many years, despite the fact that we weren't virgins. But we were very sexual people, with strong sexual chemistry, who were very comfortable with each other's sexual pasts.

You already are saying that sex isn't that important to you. You're shocked that your over 30 girlfriend gave a few guys a handjob even though she doesn't see it as a big deal. Dude there are girls who consider themselves virgins who give up anal to their men! You are extremely naive and uneducated about sex.

This does not seem like a good situation at all. Perhaps you would be better off alone or hooking up with somebody who is either asexual or has almost no drive. Because if you seriously are having trouble dealing with a 30 something woman only having a history with a few handjobs you're not cut out for the vast majority of women.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

jaquen said:


> I really think you should consider letting this woman go. You're not just waiting, *you seem extremely out of touch with the realities of human sexuality.*
> 
> There's one thing to wait. My wife and I waited, and for many years, despite the fact that we weren't virgins. But we were very sexual people, with strong sexual chemistry, who were very comfortable with each other's sexual pasts.
> 
> ...


:iagree:


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I was raised in a religions environment where nothing beyond kissing was allowed prior to marriage - and most people I knew did stick to that.

Like others are saying - if it bothers you then it bothers you. She cant go back in time and change it at this point. Id say be certain you have accepted it before you get married and are not going to bring it up in the future when you get into arguments.

The biggest thing I learned from the rigid sexual environment was that most ladies ended up not having orgasms. Both because they just expected them to happen with sex like they did for men and because they hadn't masturbated regularly. There was a feeling of shame in having to ask for this and their husbands were also uninformed on he importance of the clitoris or how to make a woman orgasm. There is a technique to oral sex, its a learned skill that without feedback miht also not result in orgasm. 

Sadly I know what I'm talking about because I have yet to have one with my husband and we have been married 18 years.

SO go ahead and be as virgin and inexperienced as you want, that's a choice and matter of personal importance. Be sure you are over her past and also that you educate yourself on women/sex (not to imply you haven't already, you didn't say.) As much as you think you can talk about sex with her it might be difficult indeed after the marriage starts and she wants to protect your feelings/ego and likewise.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jaquen said:


> *You already are saying that sex isn't that important to you.* You're shocked that you're over 30 girlfriend gave a few guys a handjob even though she doesn't see it as a big deal. Dude there are girls who consider themselves virgins who give up anal to their men! You are extremely naive and uneducated about sex.


 Yeah... that comment...bothered me too...and coming from a GUY!! And she is over 30...missed this somehow....Yikes !


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

These people have both had sex. She has had sex. She has not done oral and gave 5 guys handjobs. The sticking point is apparently the handjobs.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Is it normal to give a hand job to your partner in a romantic relationship?

Yes.



jama said:


> Am I overreacting by being upset over this?


Yes. 

If you can't get over it, let her go so she can find someone who doesn't have a problem with knowing their partner has a past and how they may have done heavy petting w/ a past partner.


You're both over 30. This shouldn't be that alarming.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Me & mine can very much relate to your feelings here.....we, too, were both cut from the more "old fashioned" cloth...just a part of who we are... this is a rarity these days, and nothing wrong with it... We never cared for toys either ... Anal ...so NOT interested ....
> 
> We only did 2 positions for 19 yrs...(looking back, I regret this and feel we should have explored more)...but he was just such a Romantic sensual Lover.....it's always been about the emotional connection (and this worked for me, I was always satisfied).. we've never gotten bored....sex is somehow new every morning and just as beautiful as the day before...
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

Jama,

So you recently found out that your wife to be was slightly, and I do mean slightly, more sexually experienced than you. How about looking at it like this, that little bit of experience she had taught her two VERY important things every wife needs to fully understand....

1. It ain't gonna bite you so dont be afraid of it and take good care of it.
2. Pleasing your man makes him happy and when he's happy, you're happy!

I quoted The Lovely Simply Amourus because I want every about to be married couple to be ready to make their sex life a banging hot, fullfilling, and wonderful thing! The right attitude, which your sweet wife to be already has, good communication, which you both already have, and some information, provided by the Lovely Simply Amourus, and you will be a happy and blessed man!

Memorize her post, print out her links, give them to your fiancé. I wish you both the very best!


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

I would expect a guy to want a woman who likes sex and isn't afraid of it and isn't wary of touching a guy. 

Embrace her sexuality. Embrace yours. Explore together. Have fun. Don't ruin your sexual relationship before it's barely gotten off the ground by obsessing over a few handjobs.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Look at the OP. This is more than just handjobs.

Notice the attitude of shame and discomfort with sex:

"When we first got together and had the talk about previous partners, she had told me that she was a virgin until 25, had only slept with one of her ex's that she was in a 3 year relationship with, that she* felt obligated* to and that* it was not good *or *very frequent*. That was all fine *since I was in the same situation*."

This woman already felt the need to belittle and stigmatize her sexual history with a man she was with for 3 years. And he only accepted it because he was "in the same situation".

He's having trouble being with a woman who has any sexual history that's greater than his. As long as she framed her one sexual experience as some kind of horrendous anomaly, like his one time was apparently, than all is OK. He could think of her as essentially just like a virgin, but with an awful experience that she was basically "obligated", i.e. coerced, to do. She kept her "purity". But the moment he discovers that she's a sexual being, even one with almost no real sexual history besides a couple hand jobs, he's already seeing her in a new light.

This woman is setting herself up if she marries this man. There are some issues here that are likely being masked by religion. Again he's already admitted he doesn't even find sex all that important. He really needs to be with someone asexual or perhaps a real virgin.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Here is the mistake you are making.

You are making sex such a terrible thing.

When you are married you are going to want her sexual side to come out.

But you have made her fear it in relation to you.

You should encourage her sexuality. You should praise it. Show your strengh as a man by making sure you are not insecure about her past.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks everyone for the repsonses. I'm starting to see it now as a good thing that she's not an ultra-prude. When I said sex was not that important to me, I was speaking in terms of the extra kinky stuff... anal, toys, bondage, etc. Not interested in that at all, however I do not want a sexless marriage. We talked about how often we'd like to have it once we tie the knot and we're on the same page as far as frequency and what we would like to do. 

Also, she mentioned her history first, before she even knew my attitude towards sex or how many people I'd been with, so that was why I was surprised because she was also making it seem like she regretted losing her virginity, saw sex as a big deal and wished she would have waited independent of my views towards sex, not sugar coating it because she thought I would be upset or jealous. I was happy to hear her views because they just so happen to line up almost exactly with mine. I just didn't think she would have been sexual with all her other boyfriends from what she originally told me, that's all, it just seemd out of place. 

Also, I dated virgins before who seemed to not do anything and were saving any sexual contact for marriage, granted they were younger and from what it sounds like, possibly asexual (although I remember one who would talk about all the things she'd like to do, only after marriage though).


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

*"Show your strengh as a man by making sure you are not insecure about her past." *

Thank you hicks, I've decided to combine your advice with the people who are telling me to leave this woman. I've decided to end the engagement, go out and find a prostitue to marry, but not a rookie, one with tons of experience, that would make me an incredibly stong man, stronger than being with a woman with such little experience, right?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If sex is just sex, why is it so abhorrent if a married person has one night stands. They're just about the sex, not about a relationship. They would have the added advantage of giving more experience to the marriage partners. It would make sense to have plenty of one night stands throughout the marriage since we are always trying to improve our marriages, right? I just wonder how many would say that the sex they had in one night stands was as good as it was in a relationship? I think relationships afford an opportunity to learn and grow and are a part of the greater goal of finding the right partner. 

Am I missing the part about whether the piv sex is adequate? I guess size does matter? But, if most men are average in size and that is good, like I've read many times here, then by default, you won't need to use that as an excuse to have plenty of one night stands.

Something to consider?


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

This is the stage of your relationship where you and your fiancee are exploring each other past. If matters important to you are not discussed openly and honestly by the both of you, then you should proceed very carefully, if at all. 

I note that she was not forthright about her past. She initially claimed to only have long-term sex with one of her ex (the 3-year relationship) but did not tell you about her sex with all her other boyfriends till you clued in on her comments.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

jama said:


> *"Show your strengh as a man by making sure you are not insecure about her past." *
> 
> Thank you hicks, I've decided to combine your advice with the people who are telling me to leave this woman. I've decided to end the engagement, go out and find a prostitue to marry, but not a rookie, one with tons of experience, that would make me an incredibly stong man, stronger than being with a woman with such little experience, right?


:rofl:


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

aug said:


> This is the stage of your relationship where you and your fiancee are exploring each other past. If matters important to you are not discussed openly and honestly by the both of you, then you should proceed very carefully, if at all.
> 
> I note that she was not forthright about her past. She initially claimed to only have long-term sex with one of her ex (the 3-year relationship) but did not tell you about her sex with all her other boyfriends till you clued in on her comments.


This is I think what is worrying me the most. But in her defense, she didn't think of doing things with your hands as counting as sex, and to be honest, I didn't really either, but I never had to think about it much before it came up.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

jama said:


> *"Show your strengh as a man by making sure you are not insecure about her past." *
> 
> Thank you hicks, I've decided to combine your advice with the people who are telling me to leave this woman. I've decided to end the engagement, go out and find a prostitue to marry, but not a rookie, one with tons of experience, that would make me an incredibly stong man, stronger than being with a woman with such little experience, right?


I'm just trying to give you advice that will help you in your marriage.

You can have as many verbal agreements as you want... .However if you make her feel bad about her sexual past and make her fear sex, then you will be in a marriage that is non sexual. Becuase for a woman to be sexual with a man, she needs to feel safe.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Hicks said:


> I'm just trying to give you advice that will help you in your marriage.
> 
> You can have as many verbal agreements as you want... .However if you make her feel bad about her sexual past and make her fear sex, then you will be in a marriage that is non sexual. Becuase for a woman to be sexual with a man, she needs to feel safe.


Sorry, man. If he doesn't respect her, it doesn't matter if he is getting sex because this lack of respect will come back later to bite him and his marriage in the azz. So he needs to communicate with her and come to some decision in his mind or the sex ain't gonna be good either way. Neither will the marriage. I do believe this is good advice if his wife's past is no big deal, but a minor bump in the road.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

jama said:


> This is I think what is worrying me the most. But in her defense, she didn't think of doing things with your hands as counting as sex, and to be honest, I didn't really either, but I never had to think about it much before it came up.


The situation apparently had came up for her many times. She knew they wanted sex or else they wont be exposing their P***s for the hand.

Now you have to wonder if she considers oral as sex? Anal?


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

aug said:


> The situation apparently had came up for her many times. She knew they wanted sex or else they wont be exposing their P***s for the hand.
> 
> Now you have to wonder if she considers oral as sex? Anal?


She does consider both of those to be sex and swears that she never did either of them. I trust her.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

jama said:


> I trust her, she's the most honest person I've ever met, sex was a big deal to her, she was raised Christian, she actually regrets having intercourse but said she didn't think of hand stuff as a big deal, but now she sees that it can be. Believe it or not there are women over the age of 25 who are not very experienced and are waiting for marriage, I dated one that was 28 I believe and didn't do anything besides kiss, at least not with me.





AniaR said:


> This is 2013 and you are wondering about your fiance's past handjobs?
> 
> Let her go. She'd be better off without you.


Maybe their standard are different from yours.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Jama,

You married an Angel, so don't make her life difficult by being so naive. That is entirely your own problem, not hers.

She seems nice and worthwile, don't bother her with your insecurities please.

Your thinking has a logic that is very wrong in this century, you would have been more at your place in the 1800's. 

I think that is why she is being nice to you, and wanting to be a little bit too much 'towards' you as far as her report of sexual experiences goes.

That is part of her good character as I see it.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

*you would have been more at your place in the 1800's. *

Trust me, I've considered that option, unfortunately time machines don't exist yet. Thank you for your perspective though, I'm starting to see that while someone may not live up to my exact standards or expectations that I place on myself, they would still make a great wife and I'm being too judgemental of others.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

OP

You can get some very good advice and information on here. But you have to be careful about people on here also especially if you have more traditional values. They will try to make you feel like you are the strangest prudish and most repressed human on the face of the Earth and that the world would be a better place without you in it. Just hold your ground and learn how to separate the meat from the bones. You will learn which poster give good advice in a particular area and which to ignore when you bring up certain subject. Read it all and discard what goes against your core values. The only other thing I can say is don't mess with Dolly....just kidding - sort of. 

I did want to say that it does seem troubling that her past bothers you. I hope you make sure you are at peace with that before marriage and not just sweep it under the rug or it could rear its ugly head when you least expect it.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> OP
> 
> You can get some very good advice and information on here. But you have to be careful about people on here also especially if you have more traditional values. They will try to make you feel like you are the strangest prudish and most repressed human on the face of the Earth and that the world would be a better place without you in it. Just hold your ground and learn how to separate the meat from the bones. You will learn which poster give good advice in a particular area and which to ignore when you bring up certain subject. Read it all and discard what goes against your core values. The only other thing I can say is don't mess with Dolly....just kidding - sort of.
> 
> I did want to say that it does seem troubling that her past bothers you. I hope you make sure you are at peace with that before marriage and not just sweep it under the rug or it could rear its ugly head when you least expect it.


Thank you.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

See_Listen_Love said:


> Jama,
> 
> You married an Angel, so don't make her life difficult by being so naive. That is entirely your own problem, not hers.
> 
> ...





committed4ever said:


> Maybe their standard are different from yours.





jama said:


> *you would have been more at your place in the 1800's. *
> 
> Trust me, I've considered that option, unfortunately time machines don't exist yet. Thank you for your perspective though, I'm starting to see that while someone may not live up to my exact standards or expectations that I place on myself, *they would still make a great wife and I'm being too judgemental of others.*



They "might" still make a great wife for you. They will make a great wife for someone else if not you. That's what no one is directly saying here. 

You have this issue and you are being judgmental. Maybe way too judgmental. You have to find out what you can live with. None of us have to live your life. You have your own boundaries. We all grow, learn and change over our lifetimes.

Communication, as open and honest as your wife is being, is a gem in marriage. That's a big hurdle. Is it enough for you? You have to decide what you can live with. Your wife is not "bad" or "wrong". She is not "good" either. She is what she is. 

She cannot change her past. 

Compatibility is the word I think I am looking for here. Fidelity, love, empathy, gratitude, satisfaction, are just a few things you have to consider. Her sexual past is minor to some and major to others. 

Do you accept her for who she is? Do you love her? If not, and you want to give it a go, you need to talk and maybe more(like marriage counseling or independent counseling).

You've got a heck of a good start here. You have to come to terms with your beliefs about her and check to see if they are that important. Maybe all you need is a different perspective?


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

jama said:


> I love this argument. What difference does the year make? If someone is traditional, they're just supposed to say "screw it, it's 2013, I have no right to want someone who is conservative and traditional like me when it comes to sex". Not everyone has the same views regarding sex, no matter what year it is.


Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


My opinion is the only way to get past this is to go out and have a past yourself. That way, yours is more colorful than theirs and you won't want to discuss anything. It won't matter. It won't bother you.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


It's a persons right to know who they are with and what they deem acceptable. Knowing this can save you from a world of hurt.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


I think people are imposing their values on those of the OP.

Is it really true that it isn't his business what she did with her body before she began dating him? He's talking about hand jobs and while that may seem silly and unreasonable to most people in this day and age, what if it was something more extreme? What if he found out instead that she had spent the two years before they started dating combing CL for anonymous sex and having sex with anyone and everyone willing to have her? What if it was AM and she had frequent anonymous sex with married men? What if while she was with one man, she was also giving hand jobs to other men? What if she accepted money in exchange for hand jobs? Would you then say it was none of his business and he shouldn't question it?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think people are imposing their values on those of the OP.
> 
> Is it really true that it isn't his business what she did with her body before she began dating him? He's talking about hand jobs and while that may seem silly and unreasonable to most people in this day and age, what if it was something more extreme? What if he found out instead that she had spent the two years before they started dating combing CL for anonymous sex and having sex with anyone and everyone willing to have her? What if it was AM and she had frequent anonymous sex with married men? What if while she was with one man, she was also giving hand jobs to other men? What if she accepted money in exchange for hand jobs? Would you then say it was none of his business and he shouldn't question it?


Yeah, what if she had a habit of being with people and their lives would be ruined and they would be robbed by her friends?

What if she had a habit of having a boyfriend for a cuckhold while she does whatever?

What if she had a habit of being abusive, and flipping the story and calling the police and your going to jail because you got to suffer physical abuse?


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I was a virgin when I married at 25 years of age. However, I had certainly enjoyed heavy petting with several boyfriends before losing my virginity. Outside of a nunnery, I think you'll find very few women who haven't...

Oral sex is another story altogether, though. For me, this is even more intimate than intercourse, and I didn't go there before I was married.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

AniaR said:


> This is 2013 and you are wondering about your fiance's past handjobs?
> 
> Let her go. *She'd be better off without you.*


The current year does not matter. 

The advice may be right even.

But the red is uncalled for. None of us have the right to belittle this guy. How he feels is up to him. His choice. Get a grip.

Oh and again the current year has no bearing.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


Sure it is. He is making a choice. He gets to choose any way he wants. He is talking about spending his life with this person. When you marry, everything is on the table. This is not interviewing someone to work at the mall.

Now that said, I think he is completely unrealistic in looking for a 30 year old woman. This is not a situation where she has slept with the whole town, including his boss and his brother. I think he needs to look past this to be sure.

But it is his right. 

It is not our right to tell him it does not matter. If he thinks it matters ... it matters.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Cosmos said:


> I was a virgin when I married at 25 years of age. However, I had certainly enjoyed some very heavy petting with several boyfriends before losing my virginity. Outside of a nunnery, I think you'll find very few women who haven't...
> 
> Oral sex is another story altogether, though. For me, oral sex is even more intimate than sexual intercourse, and I didn't go there before I was married.


This ^^^^^

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Thunder7 (Jan 2, 2013)

Sorry, Aitrus. Had to borrow your response from another thread:

-- Married for 15 years, 33 years old.

For me, and most guys I suspect, duty sex and pity sex are turnoffs. We want you to want to have sex with us. We know you can force yourself to give in. If you need to do that, it makes us feel like less of a man because you aren't attracted to us enough to share yourself with us or let us share ourselves with you.

Quantity vs quality...if you "give" us boring, unsatisfying sex whenever we ask it builds resentment. What we want is to show love and to recieve love in return through the way that we feel and express it best.

Ask yourself this: you need to get something off your chest or talk about something, but your man is busy. He says to go ahead, he's listening. So you talk, but he keeps watching tv or playing the game or whatever. Do you really feel like you connected? Sure, you got whatever was bothering you out, but do you feel like he cared very much?

Same thing with sex. When we ask for it, or for something kinky, we're looking to express our love in new, novel ways. To experience something deep with you, to push boundaries and grow with you. It brings us closer to you. We feel fulfilled, satisfied and happy because you have shown us you love us enough to share a core part of yourself with us. Or because you have explored and uncovered a deeper part of yourself in our presence and with our help.

It's very intimate to us. Why? Because sex is the area of us that's the deepest, most intimate core part of who we are. It defines us, it's the primary reason we do anything we do. Work, suffering, sacrifice, toil. All of it leads somehow back to sex with a woman. And we've chosen you as the only one we will share that part of ourselves with for the rest of our life, even though our biological drives scream at us to do otherwise.

So when you reject us outright, we hear "I don't love you right now". When you have duty or pity sex with us, we hear "I don't want to do this, but I'll do it so you stop bugging me about it." When you have sex but say no to acts, regardless of the reason, we hear "I love you, but that much."

However, when you fulfil our every whim and desire with enthusiasm, gusto and true enjoyment and joy, we hear "I love you utterly, completely, down to your core. I cherish exploring myself and yourself with you because it brings us closer together. I can never get enough of you. I feel comfortable enough with you to bare my soul to you, and you to me, in ways you understand even though I may not."

That's why sex is so important to us. --

Brilliant response from the Quantity vs Quality thread under the Men's Clubhouse section, or whatever it is. Even though it was for a seemingly unrelated topic it head the nail on the head for this topic, as well.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

Cosmos said:


> I was a virgin when I married at 25 years of age. However, I had certainly enjoyed heavy petting with several boyfriends before losing my virginity. Outside of a nunnery, I think you'll find very few women who haven't...
> 
> Oral sex is another story altogether, though. For me, this is even more intimate than intercourse, and I didn't go there before I was married.


Thanks, Cosmos. It certainly helps put it into perspective that she's not the only one who has done that, I guess it's not so much I was shocked that she ever did it, it was the number of guys, she only mentioned 2 serious relationships prior to us, so these other occurrences were just with guys she dated for a little while. But I think I'm getting over it, I just wish we didn't have that stupid talk and I never felt like I had to ask about this, I assumed if she did do it, it would've been with 2 people tops.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


Back in the late 80s there was a woman, probably 18 or 19, I knew who flirted with me constantly. She was at a party one night and decided to let every guy in the house (8 to 10 guys) have their way with her ... basically a line at the door. Not only did the guys in the neighborhood brag about it but she openly talked about it. It was no big deal to her ... she was just having fun. She was attractive and had made it clear that anytime I wanted her, I could have her. I was very tempted because I was really attracted to her and her flirting was non-stop. In the end, I didn't ... a conflict with my values stopped me.

I got my first professional job and moved. 6 months later I was driving through and stopped by to see a friend. He said, "oh, you remember xxxx (this woman)?" My response, "oh yeah, I remember her ... ". His response "she just found out she has AIDS." Sound of jaw hitting floor.

I think I dodged a bullet ... but maybe I should have done it anyway since what she does with her body is her own business?


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

There's a bit of a difference between doing every guy at a party and letting a boyfriend cum in your hand perhaps?

Lord love a duck, people. Here this practically innocent 30 something year old fiance us getting compared to prostitutes and adulterers.

I hope OP stops worrying about who she got off and starts worrying about how to get HER off. Sounds like she is past due.


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MissScarlett said:


> There's a bit of a difference between doing every guy at a party and letting a boyfriend cum in your hand perhaps?
> 
> Lord love a duck, people. Here this practically innocent 30 something year old fiance us getting compared to prostitutes and adulterers.
> 
> I hope OP stops worrying about who she got off and starts worrying about how to get HER off. Sounds like she is past due.


There is a huge difference but using that extreme example was simply to point out that one's sexual past isn't completely irrelevant as some are suggesting. 

I think his main beef isn't necessarily what she has done; while it is a shock to him, I think his main beef is that she is representing herself differently than how she initially represented herself and he is struggling to come to grips with that.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> *I think his main beef is that she is representing herself differently than how she initially represented herself and he is struggling to come to grips with that*.


Bingo


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

jama said:


> This is I think what is worrying me the most. But in her defense, she didn't think of doing things with your hands as counting as sex, and to be honest, I didn't really either, but I never had to think about it much before it came up.


You, her, and me all know it was sex.

Easy test: have a another girl do it for and see how suddenly it's sex to your gf.


I think the very real issue that is bothering you , is that you are now discovering that your gf will happily and without guilt play with telling you the truth, the same way Bill Cliton did about having had sex with Monica

It's not about the HJs, it's that you've now lost a little bit of your trust in her. If she's playing with the technical definitions of things to lie to you, to make her look better, then what else is she willing to lie about as well?


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh Donny64...I really have enjoyed so many of your posts in the past...not that you give a rat's a$$..... but on this... I want you to realize NOT everyone feels this way.. It is NOT just SEX for many of us.. .....just as it means LITTLE to you in the scheme of life... does not mean others feel this way.....
> 
> I know you are an articulate Poster here...please try to understand this , respect it ...even IF it's NOT your personal view... it is demeaning to the OP to "downplay" his feelings with insecure comments ...suggesting he may be immature... because he feels strongly on the act ...over those who don't hold it in the same Light.....
> 
> ...


Oh, I "do give a rat's ass".  I guess my point is, or what I was trying to get to, is that I've been there. But as I grew older and gained more experience, I did learn (at least in my case) that, again, in the scheme of things, someone's past experiences are the least of my worries. At least, anyway, assuming "she" has had sex and enjoyed good sex. There are so many fine women out there who make excellent life partners, whose sexual past may be less than, shall we say, "ideal". Not only is that not a disqualifier for me, I could care less. I want a "sexual being" as a partner. If that means, in her being so, that she's made some mistakes, or had a few partners (better or worse than me) before me, so be it. Does it "bother me"? Sure, maybe a little. The "caveman" in me creeps to the surface and I get those feelings! But they're quickly pushed back down. Because...

1. I've had the "good girl" partners who "waited", only to later find out they think they "missed out", and that feeling allowed them to let go enough to stray.

2. I've had the "good girl" partners who seemed to have hang ups about sex, to the point they were never really interested much in it. Usually resulted in the old "bait and switch" routine, no matter how much or how gently I tried to get them "out of their shell" and just flat out "let go" and just enjoy the simple act of sex.

3. I've had the "good girl" partners who, while yes, it was nice to think I was her "only" or "one of the few", and that "wow, this one sure doesn't give it up easy...so she MUST be a good girl, right?" types, only to learn that either previous behavior is not always a great indicator of future behavior, OR that despite her being a "good girl", that she was a psycho, controlling, insecure to a horrendous fault, or just plain mean.

4. I've been with a couple of oustanding women when younger, and due to my own immaturity, lack of understanding about human sexual nature, and insecurity at the time, who I likely eventually drove away because of it. Over what? 

I have just come to learn that, while yes, it may be "important", and maybe is an "ideal" we'd like to have, that in and of itself, that ONE thing means so very little when it comes to how someone will match up with me, how trustworthy they are, or how "pure" they are, or....how they'll view me as a lover.

I don't want a woman of "great experience". I do want one who knows what she wants. One who is "comfortable" with the act of sex. I do want one that will be happy with what she has. I want a solid, confident, smart, independent woman as THAT type of woman is usually, I've found, an absolute pleasure to be around because they're secure in themselves. AND, I'll not discount, "rule out", or think less of such a woman because she's "been around" a little.

I understand it is important for many men (and women) to have a partner who has either had few, or no partners before them. I think that is short sighted, and multitudes of potentially GREAT, loyal partners are discarded, looked down upon, or seen as less than "ideal" are cast aside over something as basic and simple as the animal desire to have sex. 

It is "just sex". It is one animal "procreating" with another. It is, also FUN. It also, obviously, means the world to those in love, making love with each other.

It sometimes cracks me up. I KNOW guys who will TRY to sleep with a woman on the first date. And if she does so, she is "not acceptable LTR material" as a result...and they will drop her like she had the plague. They do not "get it" in my opinion, and are seriously "missing the boat" and discarding numerous potential excellent life partners in the process.

My advice to the younger guys is this: Keep your eye on the REAL PRIZE...a woman who will treat you well, who is faithful, who enjoys sex, who is secure in herself, who is confident enough and secure enough in herself that she "challenges" you, keeps you on your toes and working for her affection, and don't "sweat the small stuff" (how many guys she slept with before....again, assuming she's not a sex addict or closet prostitute). When a woman loves you, you love her, and you are compatible with each other, her "number" means very little. On the flip side, if she's insecure, controlling, unstable, mean, etc., then the fact she's only had one or two partners (or even none) means very little. Less than "very little" as a matter of fact, because she WILL make your life miserable. Much more so than any good woman who has "been around" because she enjoyed sex will ever do.

I feel pretty strongly about it myself. But experience and maturity has dropped "it" pretty far down my list of priorities. I'm far more concerned with how she treats me, that she appreciates how I treat her, and how we get along in day to day life than I am what her experiences were before me. Sure, I guess it's important. It's not THAT important. It is "just sex", in my humble opinion. Most of us like it, we all do it. The trick is to be "good enough" for your partner who also "likes to do it", that she doesn't want to do "it" with anyone but you. And for you to enjoy your day to day life with her and her company enought to want to do "it" with her, not out of an animal need, but rather because you do love this good woman.

When searching for gold, don't pass up the diamonds in the rough simply because they don't present themselves as flawlessly as that new, shiny looking gold nugget.

I'm rambling. Hope you get my point.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

donny64 said:


> My advice to the younger guys is this: Keep your eye on the REAL PRIZE...a woman who will treat you well, who is faithful, who enjoys sex, who is secure in herself, who is confident enough and secure enough in herself that she "challenges" you, keeps you on your toes and working for her affection, and don't "sweat the small stuff" (how many guys she slept with before....again, assuming she's not a sex addict or closet prostitute). When a woman loves you, you love her, and you are compatible with each other, her "number" means very little. On the flip side, if she's insecure, controlling, unstable, mean, etc., then the fact she's only had one or two partners (or even none) means very little. Less than "very little" as a matter of fact, because she WILL make your life miserable. Much more so than any good woman who has "been around" because she enjoyed sex will ever do.
> 
> I feel pretty strongly about it myself. But experience and maturity has dropped "it" pretty far down my list of priorities. I'm far more concerned with how she treats me, that she appreciates how I treat her, and how we get along in day to day life than I am what her experiences were before me. Sure, I guess it's important. It's not THAT important. It is "just sex", in my humble opinion. Most of us like it, we all do it. The trick is to be "good enough" for your partner who also "likes to do it", that she doesn't want to do "it" with anyone but you. And for you to enjoy your day to day life with her and her company enought to want to do "it" with her, not out of an animal need, but rather because you do love this good woman.
> 
> ...



I see no mention of honesty, integrity, trust, truthfulness here.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> You, her, and me all know it was sex.
> 
> Easy test: have a another girl do it for and see how suddenly it's sex to your gf.
> 
> ...


OP, is that the issue? If so, then I get it. Big time. BUT, as I alluded to, does what she did (outside of the lie) impact how you feel about her otherwise? 

My point is this...If it is THAT important to you, she shouldn't have lied. However (and this is a big however), we, as a society, have placed such an unreasonable expectation on women in two ways...that one, if they've had "a lot" of sex, they are "loose", "bad women", or "not pure" or marriage material that they are virtually forced to lie about this. Second, it IS a huge double standard. It is "okay" for us, as guys, to have sex with any number of women, and we still consider ourselves as "good men" because of our other qualities, yet we consider women as "loose" or bad women DESPITE their other qualities simply because they maybe had as much sex as WE did as men. And third, they (females) are under pressure to "provide" some form of sex for a guy, and fourth, even want that connection themselves.

Personally, I'd address the honesty issue with her on this issue, IF she is otherwise an outstanding woman, be understanding of the position she is in as a woman and with how our society judges such things, while letting her know that honesty is NUMBER ONE with you...consequences be damned, you REQUIRE that. Honesty, for you, is a "deal breaker". Maybe some of the other things are too (or maybe not, once you have time to reflect on it), but that one thing...honesty, MUST be there.

But, do have a little understanding on WHY she may have not been quite so forthcoming with this information earlier on, and it will help guide you on how to handle this.


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## donny64 (Apr 21, 2012)

aug said:


> I see no mention of honesty, integrity, trust, truthfulness here.


Well, sorry you missed the point, given that I've mentioned "loyalty" and "trustworthy" in the above post.

And "integrity" is the point of the spear that is the triangle of "honesty, integrity, truthfullness". Everyone screws up. Everyone lies (please, let's not even go down the road of "I don't"). But it takes the biggest man, or woman, to own up to it when they do, and once they have time to reflect upon their poor decision(s). It shows integrity when you own up to it, despite the potential consequences. Seems she has. And that is HUGE. And, IMO, says much about her character. MUCH more than the fact she handed a few guys off and didn't want to admit to it to a guy she didn't even know in the beginning.

Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone does foolish things. Most hide it and NEVER come clean about it (we see it here every day with cheaters who blame shift, bs, and gaslight). Some do. She did. Integrity. Seems she's got it. THAT is a serious and oh-so-rare quality to not be dismissed easily.

Integrity above all else, and that includes transient disloyalty or dishonesty. They are not mutually exclusive terms. Some are more important than others. For me, integrity is tops. You screw up, come clean with me when confronted. Or, preferrably on your own. You don't do THAT, and we are DONE. If you do that, we have a chance. Because I value that (integrity) above all else.

You can lie, and still present with integrity in the future. You can be disloyal, and still present with integrity in the future. You can "screw up" and still present yourself with integrity in the future. You cannot, however say the reverse about any of those.


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

I'm 25 myself and a virgin. To me, PIV, ora, anal, fingering and any other hand stimulation are equal to SEX. They are all intimate and sexual acts.

I think it's funny how some people give oral but don't accept PIV. Actually, I'd say oral is MORE intimate than PIV. (that's how I feel)

I've never understood girls who give oral but don't go for PIV. 
To be honest, the whole idea of sex after marriage is an hypocrisy because your gf could have EVEN had an oral threesome(at the same time) in the past and just because her hymen is there ...means she's a virgin?? I think this is ridiculous.

Personally, I either give my man everything or I don't. It doesn't matter if he's a boyfriend or a husband. I call myself a virgin not because of my existing hymen but because I've never been THAT intimate with a guy and I haven't done anything *sexual*. 

I'd be VERY upset if my guy claimed he was a virgin while he gave oral to his past girlfriends. 

This would make him an hypocrite instead of a virgin.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

lovelygirl said:


> I think it's funny how some people give oral but don't accept PIV. Actually, I'd say oral is MORE intimate than PIV. (that's how I feel)
> 
> I've never understood girls who give oral but don't go for PIV.


That's a good point. In addition, oral sex is more risky than PIV because in PIV you can use a condom but not many bother to use dental dams (or make one from a condom).


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

donny64 said:


> Oh, I "do give a rat's ass".  I guess my point is, or what I was trying to get to, is that I've been there. But as I grew older and gained more experience, I did learn (at least in my case) that, again, in the scheme of things, someone's past experiences are the least of my worries. At least, anyway, assuming "she" has had sex and enjoyed good sex. There are so many fine women out there who make excellent life partners, whose sexual past may be less than, shall we say, "ideal". Not only is that not a disqualifier for me, I could care less. I want a "sexual being" as a partner. If that means, in her being so, that she's made some mistakes, or had a few partners (better or worse than me) before me, so be it. Does it "bother me"? Sure, maybe a little. The "caveman" in me creeps to the surface and I get those feelings! But they're quickly pushed back down. Because...
> 
> 1. I've had the "good girl" partners who "waited", only to later find out they think they "missed out", and that feeling allowed them to let go enough to stray.
> 
> ...



You make some good points here. I know that many of (them) prove what I was trying to say earlier. By your theories, we should all go out and look for a retired prostitute(Edit: or porn star) because she would have the most experience and also know how to make money and treat a man right.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

This is an issue I have had to deal with myself. My SO has a pretty formidable past and there is a pretty big disparity between the number of partners she has had and the number I have had. I don't know the exact number, but it is up there. She was fairly promiscuous early on. The thing is, that since she was 18, she has only been with three men, and one of them was a very complicated ONS. Talking about that situation was very difficult for both of us for various reasons, and I have a feeling the mind movie will be with me forever.

People keep talking about leaving the past in the past, but that is easier said than done sometimes. In my case, I have recently moved in with my SO and am sleeping in her marital bed where it is likely that complicated ONS happened, where she and her ex husband slept, and one other LTR slept. She has a fairly tight group of friends, and every now and then, there is mention of past partners. She is very aware of my feelings and never initiates those conversations, and is very quick to redirect them, but they still happen. A friend of hers recently died and that night after the funeral, we went out, and she got understandably drunk. While I was driving us home, she started drunk talking, and I got to hear how she and a friend had been talking earlier in the day about how the guy who died's brother was better in bed than he was, and how they were both bigger than I am. She had no recollection of the conversation the next day. Since then, she has chosen to not get anywhere near drunk

It's easy to say that the past is the past, but when the past becomes the present, it is difficult to deal with sometimes. We have talked about it a few times, and she takes every step imaginable to minimize my exposure because she knows it makes me feel uncomfortable. She is never apologetic of her past, but she does try to keep it there. She makes it clear that she loves me beyond anything she has ever known. I am the best she's ever had in bed and make her feel things she never knew she could in places she never knew she had. Yes, that is the physical connection, but I think the emotional conection is what makes that happen. I have her more completely than any man could have ever dreamed of having her, and she loves me to the depths of her soul, and I am going to treasure that for the rest of our lives.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> This is an issue I have had to deal with myself. My SO has a pretty formidable past and there is a pretty* big disparity* between the number of partners she has had and the number I have had. I don't know the exact number, but it is up there. She was fairly promiscuous early on. The thing is, that since she was 18, she has only been with three men, and one of them was a very complicated ONS. Talking about that situation was very difficult for both of us for various reasons, and I have a feeling the mind movie will be with me forever.
> 
> *People keep talking about leaving the past in the past, but that is easier said than done* sometimes. In my case, I have recently moved in with my SO and am sleeping in her marital bed where it is likely that complicated ONS happened, where she and her ex husband slept, and one other LTR slept. *She has a fairly tight group of friends, and every now and then, there is mention of past partners. * She is very aware of my feelings and never initiates those conversations, and is very quick to redirect them, but they still happen. A friend of hers recently died and that night after the funeral, we went out, and she got understandably drunk. While I was driving us home, she started drunk talking, and I got to hear how she and a friend had been talking earlier in the day about how *the guy who died's brother was better in bed than he was, and how they were both bigger than I am. * She had no recollection of the conversation the next day. Since then, she has chosen to not get anywhere near drunk
> 
> It's easy to say that the past is the past, but *when the past becomes the present, it is difficult to deal with sometimes.* We have talked about it a few times, and she takes every step imaginable to minimize my exposure because she knows it makes me feel uncomfortable. She is never apologetic of her past, but she does try to keep it there. She makes it clear that she loves me beyond anything she has ever known. * I am the best she's ever had* in bed and make her feel things she never knew she could in places she never knew she had. Yes, that is the physical connection, but *I think the emotional conection is what makes that happen.* I have her more completely than any man could have ever dreamed of having her, and she loves me to the depths of her soul, and I am going to treasure that for the rest of our lives.


This was a great post; very heart-felt and sincere. I wanted to highlight some points I thought were very important to consider when selecting a partner for life.

Edit: That emotional connection is partly due to the respect within the marriage. How do you think what has happened in this marriage has affected that emotional connection which is all-important to the longevity of the marriage? What considerations, before marriage, would have made this relationship much easier to continue?


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


Sooooo,
What if your fiancee / husband only had sex with men before he
" fell in love " with you and decided to marry you?
_Would it still be none of your business_?

[ I'm assuming that you are a female , if you are male the opposite can also apply.]


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

donny64 said:


> Well, sorry you missed the point, given that I've mentioned "loyalty" and "trustworthy" in the above post.



From your post, the bottomline of your advice is this:


> It is "just sex", in my humble opinion.


You played down the sex, everything else you wrote is window dressing.


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Caribbean Man said:


> [ I'm assuming that you are a female , if you are male the opposite can also apply.]


Suspecting is male -- got that from some of his other posts elsewhere. The avatar threw me off too. January Jones.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Sooooo,
> What if your fiancee / husband only had sex with men before he
> " fell in love " with you and decided to marry you?
> _Would it still be none of your business_?
> ...


I can't answer that since I'm a male. No idea why you assumed I'm a female, maybe it's the avatar?

I can answer the opposite situation: _"my fiancee/wife only had sex with women before she "fell in love" with me and decided to marry me? Would it still be none of my business?"_ In that case she would be bisexual. No, it wouldn't be any of my business and would not bother me since she obviously chose me over all those others and would be in love with me and not with any of those women. That's what matters after all. Same goes to the OP. She chose you and not those guys she gave handjobs to.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

aug said:


> Suspecting is male -- got that from some of his other posts elsewhere. The avatar threw me off too. January Jones.


You thought I was January Jones? :rofl:


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## aug (Aug 21, 2011)

Suspecting said:


> You thought I was January Jones? :rofl:


No, I did not. The avatar you used was January Jones.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

aug said:


> No, I did not. The avatar you used was January Jones.


Yes, I know was just joking. Though the current one is Catherine Deneuve from "The Hunger".


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> I can answer the opposite situation: _"my fiancee/wife only had sex with women before she "fell in love" with me and decided to marry me? Would it still be none of my business?"_* In that case she would be bisexual. *


Not really.
If she had sex with only women before you, chances are that she prefers women and is confused about her sexuality, hence you.

Unless you don't mind her having other female lovers and you being second or third place in the future,then you would both be sexually incompatible.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Not really.
> If she had sex with only women before you, chances are that she prefers women and is confused about her sexuality, hence you.
> 
> Unless you don't mind her having other female lovers and you being second or third place in the future,then you would both be sexually incompatible.


That's not correct. It only means she fell in love with those women before me. She can prefer women but still be bisexual and perfectly happy in love with a man. The preference rarely is 50/50 it's rather somewhere between the heterosexual-homosexual ends. Search Google for "Kinsey scale". Bisexual does not equal polyamorous and that they have to have both male and female lover.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> That's not correct. It only means she fell in love with those women before me. She can prefer women but still be bisexual and perfectly happy in love with a man. The preference rarely is 50/50 it's rather somewhere between the heterosexual-homosexual ends. Search Google for "Kinsey scale". Bisexual does not equal polyamorous and that they have to have both male and female lover.


It does seem to greatly increase the number of prospective mates. I guess someone could say that makes them feel more important that they are the chosen one. The other side of that coin is their partner can believe they were chosen by someone who doesn't discriminate well. That can tend to make a person believe they are a second choice because the best option wasn't available. 

Insecurities? Yes, we all have them. Some will admit to them and some won't. That's the only difference. Actions will alleviate some of the insecurity, but it makes those relationships much more susceptible to infidelity and divorce. 

Again, I have to believe that similarities in potential mates will tend to remove this unfounded fear. Once you are married, you cannot change that sexual experience within a monogamous relationship. I think that's what the OP is hoping to be a part of, although I don't remember specifically reading that point.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Cosmos said:


> I was a virgin when I married at 25 years of age. However, I had certainly enjoyed heavy petting with several boyfriends before losing my virginity. Outside of a nunnery, I think you'll find very few women who haven't...
> 
> Oral sex is another story altogether, though. For me, this is even more intimate than intercourse, and I didn't go there before I was married.


I did sleep with a few men before my husband but the rest of this is absolutely true with me. I stupidly gave one bj because he pushed me into it. I hated it and that was the only one.

The heavy petting bothers my husband but he dealt with it. In return he got a highly sexual wife.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

jama said:


> Thanks, Cosmos. It certainly helps put it into perspective that she's not the only one who has done that, I guess it's not so much I was shocked that she ever did it, it was the number of guys, she only mentioned 2 serious relationships prior to us, so these other occurrences were just with guys she dated for a little while. But I think I'm getting over it, I just wish we didn't have that stupid talk and I never felt like I had to ask about this, I assumed if she did do it, it would've been with 2 people tops.


 You know what is to be PRAISED IN THIS... Her willingness / Honesty to TELL YOU THE TRUTH.....this is WORTH GOLD in an upcoming marriage... 

MANY may not have gone there...knowing how you believe... but she trusted you enough. I feel one of the biggest blunders in marriage is for a spouse to see us as never making any mistakes...kinda like on a pedestal...to the point they may *fear* showing us who they REALLY ARE, this too is where they have been, what they have experienced along the way...the joys along with any mistakes. 

I would hope in time you won't feel Bad that this has come out...that you asked this question ..but to embrace this lovely woman who DID show self control where ...it's more of a rarity today....and for this... I would say you have found a compatible match...sexually. :smthumbup: 



Suspecting said:


> Well, it's not your business what she did with her body before she began dating you. You are being unreasonable. Having sex is one of the most natural things human can do besides eating and sleeping.


If there was a DISLIKE button, would have used it on this one...this shows 0 RESPECT or understanding for Jama's values & what he has been trying to convey on this thread...
Ya know...I am always amused by the ones with the "*It's not your business*" line..... Can I say  - what a SLAP IN THE FACE TO INTIMACY... One thing I would warn anyone who is met with this attitude is ...this person is not, nor will ever be the "Transparent" type...(which to me would be an automatic Deal breaker) ....Transparency is a vital form of "giving" in any thriving relationship...even this is more important -than where anyone has been sexually in their past... because all things can be worked through ...with honesty, our pasts will never define us. 



> *Lovelygirl said*: *I'm 25 myself and a virgin. To me, PIV, ora, anal, fingering and any other hand stimulation are equal to SEX. They are all intimate and sexual acts.*
> 
> 
> I think it's funny how some people give oral but don't accept PIV. Actually, I'd say oral is MORE intimate than PIV. (that's how I feel).
> ...


 By your definition Lovely Girl... I was a through & through HYPOCRITE by claiming I was a Virgin when I married (Cosmos too!)....even though...I almost had to get surgery to have my husband penetrate me 3 months after the wedding .... That's OK... as I gave a link to the various views  HERE  .....and TRUE... some feel as YOU expressed - though the general definition is related to the Hymen... as when the word originated, this is what it was based upon.... Now *Purity* is another matter entirely. This I would not call myself... 

So I differ ... I don't feel a woman is a hypocrite for being responsible enough to NOT have a penis enter her before she marries... as (in my view)....this is BEST for the children she may carry someday...to have the marital foundation laid 1st. 

I feel strongly on these things, as I fear for my sons someday - if they married a PURE Untouched Virgin....definitely some RISK there... taken from my > What to teach my Daughter thread >>



> *SimplyAmorous said:* *10*. Sexual Repression is far too common - 1 hindrance I do not wish upon any of my children, although I want them to wait -make sure they are loved & cherished BEFORE they "give" their full selves to another.
> 
> I will teach my daughter ... If she is going to be in a relationship with a man, she needs to understand him, and have compassion on what HE is going through physically, if he is willing to wait for her - IF that is even her desire. And a man NEEDS to know, without a shadow of a doubt, that even though she may not be READY to engage in genital to genital contact with him, that she craves physical intimacy with him, , that she is deeply sexually attracted to him. I would hope their openness would blossom to Orgasm talk & how they feel about them, as I feel a man should KNOW these things about any woman he marries. This gives him some indication of her sex drive, as this could vary greatly from woman to woman.
> 
> ...





Cosmos said:


> I was a virgin when I married at 25 years of age. However, I had certainly enjoyed heavy petting with several boyfriends before losing my virginity. Outside of a nunnery, I think you'll find very few women who haven't...
> 
> Oral sex is another story altogether, though. For me, this is even more intimate than intercourse, and I didn't go there before I was married.


 Excellent Post... couldn't agree with you more .... Frankly I think the Church should get off their Purity High horse on this..as it only sets teens up to fail relentlessly -setting them up for the guilt & shame merry go round ....(Been there, done that!)....But hey, that's just my personal opinion. 

I can see we all vary here.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think his main beef isn't necessarily what she has done; while it is a shock to him, I think his main beef is that she is representing herself differently than how she initially represented herself and he is struggling to come to grips with that.


Technically I kinda did this to my husband. He only asked how many men I slept with and I answered honestly. He didn't ask about heavy petting. I didn't do every guy I met but I'm not a nun either.

Eventually I told him the whole story and while it bothers him its not a deal breaker. So I gave a few serious boyfriends hand jobs? So what? I just didn't think it was relevant then. I was young and stupid.

If i could go back to the night he asked me the number question I would have clarified. Sex with x guys, bj with x guys and hj to x others.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> There is a huge difference but using that extreme example was simply to point out that one's sexual past isn't completely irrelevant as some are suggesting.
> 
> I think his main beef isn't necessarily what she has done; while it is a shock to him, I think his main beef is that she is representing herself differently than how she initially represented herself and he is struggling to come to grips with that.


I agree that one's sexual history isn't irrelevant, but I'm not sure that the OP's GF has deliberately been misrepresenting herself. I would never have thought to tell anyone how many BF's I'd actually been intimate with, because it just didn't seem relevant as I'd never 'gone all the way.'

I can see that this is bothering the OP but, really, I think I'd be more worried if a person his GF's age had not experienced a certain level of physical intimacy as, IMO, this wouldn't bode well for a mutually satisfying sexual relationship within the marriage.


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## jama (Jun 7, 2013)

For me, I'm not looking for someone to just have sex with, if that was the case then almost any woman I find attractive would be fine. I'm looking for someone to start a traditionally valued family with, to raise good children with and I guess with each aspect of a woman that I'm dating, I say to myself "Is this something I see as a positive or a negative for the mother of my future children, does her attitude or past actions line up with mine or the values that I want to pass on to our kids." 

Maybe my parents ruined it by being so great and telling me from an early age that they waited for each other and I see that as an indicator of how strong your family will be. As many have said, there is a double standard in society to a point, but if the man in question has not slept around then I don't think the double standard applies to him and that he should just accept a woman who did because other men have slept around and it's okay.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> If there was a DISLIKE button, would have used it on this one...this shows 0 RESPECT or understanding for Jama's values & what he has been trying to convey on this thread...
> Ya know...I am always amused by the ones with the "*It's not your business*" line..... Can I say  - what a SLAP IN THE FACE TO INTIMACY... One thing I would warn anyone who is met with this attitude is ...this person is not, nor will ever be the "Transparent" type...(which to me would be an automatic Deal breaker) ....Transparency is a vital form of "giving" in any thriving relationship...even this is more important -than where anyone has been sexually in their past... because all things can be worked through ...with honesty, our pasts will never define us.


If you are amused why would you dislike it? You can use the "like" feature as a dislike by liking the posts that disagree with me, like many on this forum do.

I feel my post is being drawn way out of proportion. I did not say she should hide things and not be transparent. Suddenly people are talking about prostitution, group sex and whatnot. The fact is she did none of those but only gave "handjobs" to her boyfriends at the time. What I meant with "none of his business" was that the OP has no right to judge her by those actions. She was not in a relationship with him at that time and it does affect their current relationship IN ANY WAY. She is with the OP and I assume in love with him. The real question is, is he going to ruin a perfectly fine relationship because of his own insecurities. Because that's what it is. Either insecurities or religion twisting his view.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Although we are never who we were in the past, we are all products of our past life experiences. 

I just googled that and there are many articles which will verify what I have written. We compare our own pasts with what we experience in the present to determine what the best course of action would be.

Therefore, our pasts shape who we are today. They are very important to each one of us. They are then relevant to comparison of a potential life-partner.

That does not mean the potential partner is "bad" because of their experiences. It does not mean they are less worthy of respect and love. It does mean that we need to compare the most important points of our pasts with our potential life partner to best determine suitable mates. 

This is not limited to one gender. It is universal. It is also important to more than just past experience with sex.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Suspecting said:


> What I meant with "none of his business" was that the OP has no right to judge her by those actions. She was not in a relationship with him at that time and it does affect their current relationship IN ANY WAY.


 Every one of us make judgements to how we perceive others lifestyles... nothing new under the sun...nor will this ever die until we breathe our final breath or get brain damage...we all stand guilty...Some just go to attacking one's beliefs / views over the person / the past actions.....the put down is still there.... Anyway, the judgement is a "boundary issue" to what is acceptable into Jama's personal world view...to how he was raised , in choosing the woman who will one day bore his children. 

It's his life & future...he has that right... we are just here to help him see the whole picture, I think he gets it now that .. so long as she has come clean in all of this.. .what she has experienced is very small in the scheme of sexuality before marriage, should be an easy pill to swallow. 

Just as some men would spit out the IN experienced woman , deem her uptight & a prude, only considering those ready for the "TEST DRIVE" ....it is no different , or wrong, for the OP to have his personal opinions and concerns...to a potential life partner's past...given his upbringing & personal moral code. 



> She is with the OP and I assume in love with him. The real question is, is he going to ruin a perfectly fine relationship because of his own insecurities. Because that's what it is. Either *insecurities* or *religion* twisting his view.


 The 3rd option is he strongly carries *the Romantic view of sexuality*... waiting for 1 special person....and deeply desires that same "giving" spirit from the woman he chooses to call his wife. 

Sex will never be "just sex" for some of us....so it's not always as cut & dried as we are so quickly "painted" by those who do not hold our view....to immediately jump to insecurity and religious brain washing as the waving flag hang up to every TAM poster...I simply can not agree with that...although there could be a measure of truth to some of this.. I wouldn't count it covers ALL. 



donny64 said:


> 1. I've had the "good girl" partners who "waited", only to later find out they think they "missed out", and that feeling allowed them to let go enough to stray.


Obviously you are aware of this ...it's not always true... if that Good girl was ever so careful in choosing a man of shining character in how he treats her, given the test of time...chances are she would not have any itch to explore outside of her marriage.... I never experienced the 7 yr itch...the 10... the 15 and here we are going on 24 .. I doubt this is going to happen in my 50's. If anything it would have been 4 yrs ago...where I could relate to the feelings of a Cougar let out of a cage...yet I threw myself into HIM ....(got a little hooked on porn too, but hey, he didn't mind!). 



> It sometimes cracks me up. I KNOW guys who will TRY to sleep with a woman on the first date. And if she does so, she is "not acceptable LTR material" as a result...and they will drop her like she had the plague. They do not "get it" in my opinion, and are seriously "missing the boat" and discarding numerous potential excellent life partners in the process.


 I don't agree with the Double standard at all... I never wanted a man who could engage in this sort of behavior, it would be a BLIGHT ON His character for me.... If he respected me for waiting, he damn well have been that type himself. 

But I  for answering Donny64 ....even if we are on opposites sides of the Atlantic on how one handles themselves sexually before marriage... once the Marriage takes Place, I think we'd be on the same page. And for giving a rat's a$$.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Sex will never be "just sex" for some of us....so it's not always as cut & dried as we are so quickly "painted" by those who do not hold our view....to immediately jump to insecurity and religious brain washing as the waving flag hang up to every TAM poster...I simply can not agree with that...although there could be a measure of truth to some of this.. I wouldn't count it covers ALL.


I assume you're a Christian? Well, you know what, I'm too. Although non religious. So we both know very well where that "abstinence before marriage" teaching comes from... OP can correct this if I'm wrong but I assume his beliefs and values regarding this come from his religion. I'm not judging religious people I just don't agree with them on this issue. It's better to have some experience before marriage so you don't have to wonder later on if you missed out on something.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> I assume you're a Christian? Well, you know what, I'm too. Although non religious. So we both know very well where that "abstinence before marriage" teaching comes from... OP can correct this if I'm wrong but I assume his beliefs and values regarding this come from his religion. I'm not judging religious people I just don't agree with them on this issue. It's better to have some experience before marriage so you don't have to wonder later on* if you missed out on something*.


Leaving religious beliefs out of it, will you please explain further what you think a person might be "missing out on"? I would appreciate some specifics without being too vulgar. Thank you.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> It's better to have some experience before marriage so you don't have to wonder later on if you missed out on something.



Missing out on what exactly?
I don't really get your logic.
A man or woman could have had sex with every single person they came into contact with before marriage,
And still feel as if they were missing out _on more action_ after they got married.
In fact, that is the #1 reason why most men who are players,are themselves afraid to commit to one woman in marriage.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Leaving religious beliefs out of it, will you please explain further what you think a person might be "missing out on"? I would appreciate some specifics without being too vulgar. Thank you.





Caribbean Man said:


> Missing out on what exactly?
> I don't really get your logic.
> A man or woman could have had sex with every single person they came into contact with before marriage,
> And still feel as if they were missing out _on more action_ after they got married.
> In fact, that is the #1 reason why most men who are players,are themselves afraid to commit to one woman in marriage.


Experience to know you are not missing out on anything. Every person is unique. On this forum there is quite a few threads where it is mentioned. Sadly they are mostly in the CWI section.


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

2ntnuf said:


> Leaving religious beliefs out of it, will you please explain further what you think a person might be "missing out on"? I would appreciate some specifics without being too vulgar. Thank you.


Probably the most basic hang up would be oral sex. If you wait until after marriage to find out that one or the other partner hates it, and the other wants it, it will be a tough imbalance to over come. Many people are simly not able to over come the desire gap the way SimplyAmorous has.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Experience to know you are not missing anything. Every person is unique. On this forum there is quite a few threads where it is mentioned. Sadly they are mostly in the CWI section.


Having tons of sexual partners and experience before marriage does not make anybody more " experienced" with their specific marital partner.

My wife is unique.
My wife's body is unique.
Her preferences in sex is unique.
The way her body responds to me is unique.
What we share in bed between us, the sexual intimacy, is unique.

I would be stupid to assume that the sex I had with partners before her helped me to understand having sex with her, and the intimacy we share.

Just does not compute.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> Experience to know you are not missing out on anything. Every person is unique. On this forum there is quite a few threads where it is mentioned. Sadly they are mostly in the CWI section.


Unique in what particular way? If you could post a link to some particular posts or threads, it would be helpful to read what you are referring to. 

I've been with a few women, there was only one who I believe wasn't a good physical match. One was better than the rest. The others were just fine. 

The one who wasn't a good physical match was the one who was into some really kinky sexual things with multiple partners and made short films for extra income with them. I'm pretty certain the things she told me were the cause of that physical inadequacy. 

She was also the one who just kind of let me do what I wanted and seemed to have little desire in any emotional attachment to her partner. Think, "a knot hole in a wet log". She was quite experienced.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man said:


> Having tons of sexual partners and experience before marriage does not make anybody more " experienced" with their specific marital partner.
> 
> My wife is unique.
> My wife's body is unique.
> ...


It does make you more experienced in general so you have something you can compare to. And of course experince will help, you will learn the basics of woman's body and what to do.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> It does make you more experienced in general so you have something you can compare to. And of course experince will help, you will learn the basics of woman's body and what to do.


I really don't think any self respecting woman wants her husband to compare her sexuality with his past conquests.

I don't think any self respecting woman would want to allow herself to be used as a " textbook" by a man to learn the basics of a woman's body, so that he could relate to another woman.

Do you know of any woman who would agree to those things done to her?


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Suspecting said:


> It does make you more experienced in general so you have something you can compare to. And of course experince will help, you will *learn the basics of woman's body* and what to do.




That right there is what is the most fun about being in a relationship instead of a one night stand. It is also one of the most fun things to do with someone who has the same level of experience that you do. That is all important to both partners fun in exploration of sexuality and the human body. It is so much more fun when you are able to read books together and talk and then have a romantic day and evening exploring what you read and talked about. You take that away by have one person have more experience than the other. It is a huge loss and will make trouble in the marriage. Similarities are very important in all things. Perfection is boring and impossible. Tolerable differences in experience create fun topics for exploration because you can become closer by learning together. Learning and growing together creates strong bonds when the partners in a marriage have similar backgrounds and experiences in life. One partner will tire quickly of the relationship if the other is too inexperienced. The inexperienced one will become frustrated with the marriage if they are constantly behind the curve.


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## committed4ever (Nov 13, 2012)

> Frankly I think the Church should get off their Purity High horse


Do we really have to disrespect the belief systems of others on this board in such a blatant manner? A dedicated and practicing Christian's belief system is their life. Even if you don't ascribe to that belief system, it's not necessary to demean it by referring to it's standards in such a disrespectful manner.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

committed4ever said:


> Do we really have to disrespect the belief systems of others on this board in such a blatant manner? A dedicated and practicing Christian's belief system is their life. Even if you don't ascribe to that belief system, it's not necessary to demean it by referring to it's standards in such a disrespectful manner.


The Internet has done more for the growth of Atheism than anyone could have guessed. It's awful.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

samyeagar said:


> Probably the most basic hang up would be oral sex. If you wait until after marriage to find out that one or the other partner hates it, and the other wants it, it will be a tough imbalance to over come. Many people are simly not able to over come the desire gap the way SimplyAmorous has.


SA, I believe explained her position in one of her posts above. She can address that.

I do agree it is possible that one person in the marriage may not like certain things. That can be troublesome. If there is good communication before the marriage, is it possible to find this out? I do understand.

One thing I want to add. I do not have oral sex with nor do I expect if from someone who is not in a relationship with me. I, personally cannot do it unless I know a little about the personal habits of the woman. I do not like "s*****g c**k by proxy", nor would I expect a woman to be happy with the flip side of that record. 

Condoms, while tedious and desensitizing are a must today, unless the relationship is exclusive and monogamous. I have had women ask me to take a blood test if I want sex without a condom. That is a good time to assess the importance of that person in my life. I will do it if I want to seriously pursue the relationship. That's no problem and it affords an opportunity to make sure there are no issues.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

committed4ever said:


> Do we really have to disrespect the belief systems of others on this board in such a blatant manner? A dedicated and practicing Christian's belief system is their life. Even if you don't ascribe to that belief system, it's not necessary to demean it by referring to it's standards in such a disrespectful manner.


I like this. You got cohones(I hope I spelled that right). You are open-minded as well.


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## Davelli0331 (Apr 29, 2011)

OP, have you ever thought that perhaps the reason your future wife wasn't completely truthful is because you are making an incredibly humongous deal about this? You're very sexually conservative, and that's ok, but your OP gives me the impression that you think any woman that would give a couple handies before marriage is a total floosie. Perhaps your future W didn't want you to think of her that way for something she didn't think was a big deal?

Lots of folks are gonna disparage me for saying that and claim that all this is a sign that your fiancee is probably hiding terrible, awful secrets from you. Because, obviously, your fiancee is the only person in the history of human courtship to ever misrepresent herself, and that can only mean that she's been at the epicenter of every orgy since she was old enough to have sex.

Not.

You have a very conservative outlook on sex, and that's totally ok. Don't let anyone tell you you're wrong for that. Do I personally think you're blowing this out of proportion? Yes, but really, that's for you to decide. If it really bugs you, have a talk with her about it, but leave your personal feelings out of it so that she feels safe enough to be truthful. I'm not saying abandon your value system, I'm saying have a calm, non-judgmental, non-confrontational convo with her about it. Then decide how you want to move forward.

Personally, I think it would be super rad to marry a woman that already knows how to handle the tool. Many women don't know how to give decent HJs. Good handies can be, ah, pretty awesome


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

It was a lot of fun while it lasted. I hope the OP got some answers and opinions that will help. I wish you very good luck. Take care.


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## Suspecting (Jan 8, 2013)

Caribbean Man and 2ntnuf, you seem to make a great tag-team. Go on. :smthumbup:

I think we better drop it we are never going to agree on this. I'm just going to say that no one here is entitled to say the "inexperienced" way is the only "right" way.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Suspecting said:


> I assume you're a Christian? Well, you know what, I'm too. Although non religious. So we both know very well where that "abstinence before marriage" teaching comes from... OP can correct this if I'm wrong but I assume his beliefs and values regarding this come from his religion. I'm not judging religious people I just don't agree with them on this issue. It's better to have some experience before marriage so you don't have to wonder later on if you missed out on something.


I used to be a Christian, or let's say I TRIED to be... but obviously I threw their Purity restraints out the window back then when we put our hands down each others pants... I had no desire to be THAT pure... We even LIVED together before we married and still didn't have intercourse.... yes, you can call me stark raving bat crazy ... and my husband too, but ya know, we'd do it all over again the same. The only thing I would change is the guilt /shame due to religious beliefs over what we enjoyed ...did a thread on that... We were content with our boundaries & the emotional connection flurished. 

As to WHY I felt this strongly....we all have our stories , don't we... a Piece of my childhood here...

I watched (let's say Could HEAR) my Mother F*** a variety of men when we lived in a little house together, them coming in & out... I say F*** because it wasn't making love.... I was only 9.... It was cold, no playfulness...sex seemed so DIRTY to me.....I can't blame this all on RELIGIOUS thinking.... 

I was taken off of her due to the mess she got herself involved in with a variety of men .....she lost me, our little house, her job and her sanity at the same time... My mother was gone...and she was never the same again.....She has shared with me openly her mistakes.. (a life full of them)... she also shared how this ruined her... there was NO emotion involved with other men.. she never believed in love for herself again....

I vowed at a very young age, I would never walk her path... 

But as I keep saying here... I am a die hard Romantic.. I wanted the FAIRY TALE ROMANCE...Met my husband at 15...he was different from the rest.... I was not going to have intercourse that young... 

I made the right choice for MY life.. I have no regrets... I feel awful for the mess my mother made of hers...giving herself to USERS / Abusers.... she was beat up twice, raped 3 times by- all different men.... ran off with an Alcoholic.... I realize this is "extreme".... I guess one could say I went to the other extreme...Children often repeat their parents mistakes or are so disgusted by them... they learn how NOT to live ....

It wasn't about Religion for me (that is rules, contraints, obeying )....this was about deeply wanting to FEEL & experience the full beauty of this act with a man who treasured me, who would never hurt me, leave me...the one who captured my heart and yes, I feel saving yourself for your husband is a GIFT OF LOVE... If you don't agree, that's fine, I knew I had the right man cause he Loved this about ME... He was my forever.... how can I describe the depths of emotion here... to one who feels it's NO big deal...it's JUST SEX...get some experience young woman! 

Sex for us is more than just physical.. it is emotional, it is even spiritual... nothing in life can compare with this ...knowing no other has graced his body and him knowing this about me.. yes, we treasure this....feeling this STRONGLY is one reason -- feeling I missed out... never..that is a CHEAP comparison to what I just described here.. would you say not ? 

I'll get off the soap box now.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

MrBrains said:


> The Internet has done more for the growth of Atheism than anyone could have guessed. It's awful.


The growth of atheism isn't awful. If people don't want Christianity bashed on this forum they shouldn't then turn around to bash those who are not believers either.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Coffee Amore said:


> The growth of atheism isn't awful. If people don't want Christianity bashed on this forum they shouldn't then turn around to bash those who are not believers either.


I just feel we should all use ethics in our sexuality..(take religion out, take Non religion out)... The Golden rule is my guide....would any argue against this ?? Surely the vast majority of TAMERS would agree here with not a thought to "belief"... this is more about conscience. Though I think many would make excuses for themselves when they don't adhere to it ... which is saddening.

For instance.. speaking about sexuality ... the book I am reading on Sexual integrity, this is so jammed pack full of the pitfalls involved with every view .... I can see where the men in my Mothers life were Manipulators and Seducers...(I didnt realize the word seduction was so wrong until this spelled out the intentions behind it- depending on what lens you are using)....The Power view could =no integrity at all).. it's about EGO... not mutual pleasure.. she was very Naive, and was in love with one of them... He didn't give a damn...he went in for the kill for his own gain.... Yes, she should have been brighter/ smarter, cunning herself... but because she wasn't (and many of us have been duped in sex)...... she lost herself... and it all went BAD. 

People affect other people... Casual sex..what I am reading right now is the fine line with giving "consent"..the consent is huge here you realize...... if this is NOT spelled out between 2 who don't know each other well, or the intentions misread... Hurt results... integrity not adhered to. 

None of us should do any intentional harm....misread assumed signals could = much unintentional harm.. None of us can save the world I know.... Just my thoughts in a moment to get it off of religion... but to a place that should matter to us all. 

>> Integrity in our sexuality.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> None of us should do any intentional harm....misread assumed signals could = much unintentional harm.. None of us can save the world I know.... *Just my thoughts in a moment to get it off of religion... but to a place that should matter to us all. *
> 
> >> *Integrity in our sexuality*.


:iagree:

I don't see why people can't find a common ground here.
Has absolutely nothing to do with religion or whether or not you're an atheist.
Its about ethics.
Plain and simple.
Managing our relationships in a way that is not exploitative of another person.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> I think people are imposing their values on those of the OP.
> 
> Is it really true that it isn't his business what she did with her body before she began dating him? He's talking about hand jobs and while that may seem silly and unreasonable to most people in this day and age, what if it was something more extreme? What if he found out instead that she had spent the two years before they started dating combing CL for anonymous sex and having sex with anyone and everyone willing to have her? What if it was AM and she had frequent anonymous sex with married men? What if while she was with one man, she was also giving hand jobs to other men? What if she accepted money in exchange for hand jobs? Would you then say it was none of his business and he shouldn't question it?


For me it is not about these sexual acts and facts, but about the possible obsession of OP with it. That is unhealthy, for him and for his family.

After he can get rid of his over-reacting he can see more clear towards these facts. But still the word 'fact' in his mind can be something else then reality. It is really all in the mind, what meaning someone gives to it


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I too am a God fearing man "Christian" but you could call me a doubting Thomas, which is the part of me that questions why and needs some evidences and proof. Call it faith and fact, which go together quite nicely.

If he has issues with her sexual past, find someone else then.

But if she only did hand jobs and maybe oral, that's nothing. No one is perfect, especially when it comes to our sex drives. I say forgive and forget and start a new chapter together.

I think Atheist's should be more worried about Islam than Christianity. Islam will probably take over the world under Shiria Law and if you don't convert, you die, atheists included. If you don't convert to Christianity, no one gets killed.

My wife and I got tested before we went all the way and came back clean and she got on birth control and waited 6 months just to be on the safe side. She had to go through a few brands but in the end, it works good for her with no negative side effects.

Most people today aren't virgins by the time they get married. Just the way it is. In an ideal world, both spouses are HD or LD, virgins and soul mates, but we know that isn't reality.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Entropy3000 said:


> Now that said, I think he is completely unrealistic in looking for a 30 year old woman. This is not a situation where she has slept with the whole town, including his boss and his brother. I think he needs to look past this to be sure.
> 
> But it is his right.



RIGHT, and some of the people may not believe the situation you described exists - but in reality it's something that happens sometimes. They do it for several reasons, a couple I know of are:

1. Extreme lust and they do what the feel like doing
2. They are "beating" you. So getting close to your friends and blocking you out or eliminating your influence "wins".

I'm sure there are others.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

If its that big of an issue you should leave

Ultimately you will have to decide. 

I feel its best that two people know EVERYTHING about one another before marrying. So many of the problems on here and in marriages could be avoided if people really got to know each other, and if you are not compatible and CANNOT agree or accept each others pasts its time to move on and find someone else.

Now it seems you two get along your only issue is she never mentioned the HJ's. She should of mentioned that as part of her experience earlier (imo), but can't go back. She has told you the truth on everything else correct? 

If the relationship is good everywhere else and you two are compatible then I'd greatly advice getting over this. You two are on the same page and can learn and grow together its not like you two are from vastly different sexually experienced worlds, she is far from a Sl#t. Sounds like you got a really stable girl cherish that


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

Goldmember357 said:


> If its that big of an issue you should leave
> 
> Ultimately you will have to decide.
> 
> ...


Right, this day and age she may as well be a virgin. Be happy.


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## MarriedManInHis40s (Mar 28, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> The Internet has done more for the growth of Atheism than anyone could have guessed. It's awful.


Any medium that allows for the exchange of ideas and critical thinking is going to foster the growth of atheism. When faiths mingle, they are all weakened. That needn't be awful and in fact it isn't. (Some atheists are rude and confrontational (I think that's partly a response to pushy Christians... have you ever had an atheist knock on your door?), but most are not.. I happen to be the biggest atheist you've ever met, but unless you ask me you'll never be able to tell).

Anyway, back on topic. I'm in agreement with most of the posters here: I think the OP is being absurd, but it doesn't matter what WE think about his fiance, it matters what the OP thinks. Either he can get over it or he can't. I personally get the sense he's not going to be able to, but I guess we'll see.

That said, the fact that's it's 2013 and not 1913 DOES matter, not to the OPs values, but to the OPs chances of finding a woman in her early 30s with a past he can be comfortable with (ie: in 2013 it's virtually zero).

And why draw the line at handjobs? Surely each and every one of those men french kissed his fiance, massaged and sucked her breasts (the very same breasts that the OP likes so much), etc. Isn't that even worse? At least after a handjob, you can wash your hands


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## JustSomeGuyWho (Dec 16, 2012)

MarriedManInHis40s said:


> Any medium that allows for the exchange of ideas and critical thinking is going to foster the growth of atheism. When faiths mingle, they are all weakened. That needn't be awful and in fact it isn't. (Some atheists are rude and confrontational (I think that's partly a response to pushy Christians... have you ever had an atheist knock on your door?), but most are not.. I happen to be the biggest atheist you've ever met, but unless you ask me you'll never be able to tell).
> 
> Anyway, back on topic. I'm in agreement with most of the posters here: I think the OP is being absurd, but it doesn't matter what WE think about his fiance, it matters what the OP thinks. Either he can get over it or he can't. I personally get the sense he's not going to be able to, but I guess we'll see.
> 
> ...


Not true. Living in conservative Indiana with a wife who is an ultra conservative fundamentalist christian (I am so not like her ... I am not a christian nor am I ultra conservative), I know a lot of people who arrange marriages. There are a lot more than you think. The family my wife is closest to: 6 kids (4 girls, 2 boys), middle-class family, nice house in suburbs. He works at a big Japanese tech firm. He has his girls under lock and chain. Home-schooled. His oldest is getting married. She has never as much as kissed a boy and she's 24 years old. No dates, no hand-holding ... nothing. Her parents arranged an 'interview' with a guy from Arkansas, early 30s. Never met him, just talked with his parents and then flew him up for the big 'interview'. On the day they introduced him to their daughter, he proposed to her father. He accepted on her behalf. She will be moving to Arkansas when they marry in September. I know and know of a lot of families like that, particularly through the rather large home-school groups.

I could probably hook him up


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

"I'm still a virgin! I only sucked c--k and gave handjobs" 
Heh, women


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

JustSomeGuyWho said:


> Not true. Living in conservative Indiana with a wife who is an ultra conservative fundamentalist christian (I am so not like her ... I am not a christian nor am I ultra conservative), I know a lot of people who arrange marriages. There are a lot more than you think. The family my wife is closest to: 6 kids (4 girls, 2 boys), middle-class family, nice house in suburbs. He works at a big Japanese tech firm. He has his girls under lock and chain. Home-schooled. His oldest is getting married. She has never as much as kissed a boy and she's 24 years old. No dates, no hand-holding ... nothing. Her parents arranged an 'interview' with a guy from Arkansas, early 30s. Never met him, just talked with his parents and then flew him up for the big 'interview'. On the day they introduced him to their daughter, he proposed to her father. He accepted on her behalf. She will be moving to Arkansas when they marry in September. I know and know of a lot of families like that, particularly through the rather large home-school groups.
> 
> I could probably hook him up


I live in a very cosmopolitan country. About 30 % Muslim and a percentage of that is fundamentalist.
Muslims don't have any form of sexual contact before marriage.
A few other religions too.


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## youkiddingme (Jul 30, 2012)

It is about honesty and trust. Whatever your reasons for lying.... you are building a relationship on falsehoods.... destroying intimacy and trust. Trust....the foundation of a meaningful relationship. There is no reason good enough to lie to your spouse...the person you say you love more than anything. I am sick and tired of liars.....and I don't care what your reason is.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

See_Listen_Love said:


> For me it is not about these sexual acts and facts, but about the possible obsession of OP with it. That is unhealthy, for him and for his family.
> 
> After he can get rid of his over-reacting he can see more clear towards these facts. But still the word 'fact' in his mind can be something else then reality. It is really all in the mind, what meaning someone gives to it



The only obsession I'm picking up from this thread is that the 'experienced with sex before marriage' posters seem to be scared shtless by the OP's choices and lifestyle. 

'....none of his business......living in the wrong era/year........she's better off without him....he's marrying an angel (??) that he doesn't deserve......'


I've never seen such collective insecurity displayed by the 'sexually bold' in my life! I always thought it went in the other direction..... 

I think the bottom line - that a few have rightly seized on - is that he is sexually inexperienced, he is therefore comfortable marrying a woman who is also sexually inexpereinced. BUT.....he is sensing a bit of dishonesty from her on the issue so he is rightly concerned. Not only is her sexual history his BUSINESS, but she has no right to mislead him about it - none at all. If he does not end up marying her...THEN her sexual history will be none of his business.

OP - be diplomatic and sensitive but do talk to her about this again and make every effort to determine - BEFORE you marry her - that she is indeed who she says she is.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

jama said:


> My fiancee and I are in our early 30's and are doing well, happy together and in love. Everything was going as smooth as silk until a conversation we had the other night. *When we first got together and had the talk about previous partners, she had told me that she was a virgin until 25, had only slept with one of her ex's that she was in a 3 year relationship with, that she felt obligated to and that it was not good or very frequent.* That was all fine since I was in the same situation. Neither of us have had oral sex and we think it is a huge deal and are saving that for marriage, which is awesome and means a lot to me. My problem is that last week we were talking about virgins and she kept saying how a lot of them do other stuff in place of sex, so even if a girl says she is a virgin that just means she uses her hand or mouth to please her boyfriend. I told her I didn't think that was necessarily true since I knew and dated some virgins prior to her and we did not do any of that stuff. She kept insisting on her point of view and finally I just said, "well look at you, you had boyfriends and didn't sleep with them and you didn't use your hands on every one of them did you?". She gave me this look, like "duh", I was surprised and then asked, well how many guys did you that for, she told me she did that with 5 of her boyfriends and I was pretty shocked. I'm starting to feel better about it but I was wondering if this is normal? I never thought I would have to worry about that kind of thing, *that if someone says they didn't have sex with all of their ex's that it wasn't an automatic indication that they did heavy petting instead. Am I overreacting by being upset over this? Are handjobs nothing to stress over?* I'm glad it wasn't worse, that she didn't use her mouth or have full on sex, I guess I'm just upset that she touched that many guys in the past and never mentioned it in our previous conversations.



HOW was she dishonest or misleading? According to his account, she told him she was a virgin until 25 and only slept with one guy and it wasn't very good or very frequent. There's been nothing said since to suggest that wasn't the truth. I could have missed it, but I didn't see any claim that he asked her about french kissing and hand jobs and petting etc. and she lied. Why did the OP expect her to give an account in minute detail of very physical contact she ever had with a man, unless he asked her that question directly and explicitly?


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

nuclearnightmare said:


> The only obsession I'm picking up from this thread is that the 'experienced with sex before marriage' posters seem to be scared shtless by the OP's choices and lifestyle.
> 
> '....none of his business......living in the wrong era/year........she's better off without him....he's marrying an angel (??) that he doesn't deserve......'
> 
> ...


If you read some more on these forums you will see it is almost a standard obsession with a lot of men.

Like asking for details of an affair, obessively, and then not being able to handle the images and thoughts, also obessively.

It is a bit built into our genes I guess.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

Jealousy and fear are invitations to do Shadow Work. Your terror at your woman's past points to shame or abandonment issues or such Shadow beliefs inside you. The emotion Jealousy is a messenger of "protect your social/emotional capital". Do you think a woman who has had more partners is like pre-chewed gum: an object of lesser value, lesser social capital? Fear of course is your intuition trying to protect you. How can this woman who loves you harm you with her past? Is it a signal to you that you will be discarded like her previous lovers? Investigating the shadow stories and beliefs you tell yourself can enable you to understand that the present moment and your SO's love right now are the current reality, and you can keep yourself safe in other ways than obsessing over past handjobs and sullied beds. *scratch that last part, can't you get a new bed???? Or at least cleanse it with seasalt and sage smoke!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

Even in the 1900's and before that you would not find many 30 year old virgins. People were just as sexual they were just repressed, and found way's around societies standards. 

I mean everyone was married by age 18 and having kids as well, it was easier to wait for marriage given that you'd be married in few years time after you started puberty.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

And lets not forget the possibility of multiple wives....Go poll a bunch of teenage boys and tell them if they wait until 18 to have sex they will be rewarded with a multiple wives.


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## tulsy (Nov 30, 2012)

jaharthur said:


> HOW was she dishonest or misleading? According to his account, she told him she was a virgin until 25 and only slept with one guy and it wasn't very good or very frequent. There's been nothing said since to suggest that wasn't the truth. I could have missed it, but I didn't see any claim that he asked her about french kissing and hand jobs and petting etc. and she lied. Why did the OP expect her to give an account in minute detail of very physical contact she ever had with a man, unless he asked her that question directly and explicitly?


this


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