# Strapping in for a long one. Here we go.



## SkyHigh

Those who have been following the mess that was my separation thread("Separation Progress - ongoing blog") have seen where things have picked up and then completely fell apart. 

Following a near-death earlier this week, I'm going to be slowly starting to rebuild myself. 

Conditions so far:

- STBX and I are taking the divorce, the separation, and the marriage off the table. Neither of us are emotionally stable after this and rebuilding is priority one. 

- We both will remain in IC starting next month. We have to. The coping limits on both ends need to be extended.

- I told her that I want to be treated as a PERSON, with FEELINGS, instead of a punching bag. She agreed.

- She agreed that she's been unnecessarily cruel since the start of this. We're letting it go. The time has come to move forward. One foot in front of the other.

Yesterday, I asked her about if she really meant it when she said she regretted leaving me. In her words...

"I never should have left you. I had no idea things would turn this way, or that you would be left completely alone. Your family is TEN HOURS AWAY, mine is right here..."

She said she did. She also said that she doesn't want to get back together out of guilt or pity. I told her that I don't want her to...that she should want to get back together because she WANTS to. I made it clear to her that we can NEVER go back to the way things were, because the way things were is exactly why we split in the first place. 

She was very tearful and said that no matter what happens, she will always be my friend. I told her to stop using the word "always", because it implies something without effort. 

She also made some things clear....

- There is no other relationship in sight. 
- She wants me to get help, get better, and find my center of balance again. In her words, "The you that you were the first month...you were such an amazing person, and you STILL are...please don't let this define you."

I gave her my wedding ring last night in my apartment. I said that this signifies my heart, and to treat it right. I said to her that I can't be kicked while I'm down any further, I can't handle it. She promised.

For a start, we have a common goal, now. One crisis at a time.

I spoke to her about what I have been researching regarding suicide attempt recovery. One of the tools to be used is a "suicide box", a box that you fill with positive things that you look at when you feel at the edge of despair. 

One of the things you can put in it, are index cards. The attempt survivor writes down a negative emotion on one side, while their loved one writes on the reverse, reasons why that negative emotion is untrue. 

I was just casually explaining it to her, and I said "Like, if I were to write 'unloved', then you can--". As soon as I said that, she broke down. All walls down. Zero guard. I looked over and was about to say that we don't HAVE to do that, we can find something else, and instead, she had a crushing grip on my shoulders, sobbing. 

"NOBODY should feel unloved! NOBODY! You are NOT unloved! Many people love you! *I* LOVE YOU! You're important to me and many others, you AREN'T UNLOVED!"

....not expected. 

Maybe she's still fighting that internal struggle. I don't know, but it's going to take a long time, for both of us. 

As for me...I'm currently on Clonazepam since yesterday. Has to be taken. I'm too much of a shredded mess of emotions and thoughts to try and move forward without something to help. I think my meds really sabotaged me as well(she agreed). 

She seemed very reluctant to leave last night. We were talking at the car for a good fifteen minutes. I gave her a quick hug and let go, and started backing away before she stepped forward and hugged me as tightly as she possibly could. 

We're possibly meeting up today so I can start prioritizing. I just really need to get away from my town for a bit. 

She mentioned that before the spiral, I was doing so well, and she was really enjoying spending time with me and how I was treating her, as well as her treatment of me. 

So, in the words of Tom Cruise as Maverick in Top Gun, I think I'm going to be saying this to myself for a long time until I can believe it.

_"I see it, I got it....here we go."_


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## Conrad

How was the weekend?


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## SkyHigh

Conrad said:


> How was the weekend?


Not bad, actually. 

I'm slowly starting to gain my center back.

My job has completely overdriven my hours. This is a good thing. More money, less to concentrate on. 

Wife stopped by my apartment while I was at work to drop off cat food. Haven't been upstairs yet, sitting in the courtyard using the 3G on my phone to pipe into internet, I am so exhausted. 

I'm still very shaken up, as is she, over the events of the past week. Tomorrow will be one week since I went into the hospital, Wednesday will be one week since I returned. 

Once I get some better cash flow I'm hitting up my counselor. Currently my meds have switched, since my anti-depressants had a hand in the crash. I'm on tranqs right now(Clonazepam 0.5 mg) to calm me down enough to focus.


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## SkyHigh

Tomorrow early afternoon, we are meeting up.

I spent some of my night last night writing down a lot of bad memories in my life(and some bad moments that occured during the marriage), she's doing the same. We'll be taking our notebooks to the canal and sitting down with a couple of coffees, reading them to each other, and then burning them after we read them.


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## SkyHigh

She just admitted that she feels "lost, lonely" and that her "life has stagnated". 

Unsure whether to ignore that remark or respond. Currently keeping the message window up.

Screw it. Said "I gotta go. Work." and logged.


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## BeYou

The last time I split with my W, I eventually got those same types of messages. That she was broke, car doesn't work, feeling helpess, doesn't have a house, feels like she is starting all over at 28, and on and on.

She started to realize that life wasn't so easy. I felt bad for her, but at the same time, this was her choice. My responses were that I understand it sucks, but this was your choice. I'm not sure what she was trying to accomplish with it, and I don't think I responded properly, but a few weeks later we started hanging out and eventually got back together. Things were amazing at first.

But I'm back here 5 months later. 

She's not happy, and for you, that's a good thing right now. Don't rush to try and "fix" that for her. But be open for her to come to you.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> She just admitted that she feels "lost, lonely" and that her "life has stagnated".
> 
> Unsure whether to ignore that remark or respond. Currently keeping the message window up.
> 
> Screw it. Said "I gotta go. Work." and logged.


No rescuing.


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## SkyHigh

Found out on a forum that she was character assassinating me on, late at night, she was in a thread that another user posted saying how "proud" she was to leave her husband.

STBXW posted very early that morning that "I hope one day I find the strength to say the same".

Keep it up, b*tch. We'll see who files if you push me far enough, Miss "Full-Time Student".

It's funny, I get a nice handle on my anger issues and then this. 

Boy, tomorrow's going to be interesting keeping that one stuffed down in her presence while she acts all buddy-buddy.


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## SkyHigh

And I'm staying with Conrad's advice on this one.

She made this bed. She's "proud" of leaving me? Good.

Have fun eating Kraft Dinner every night since you can't cook.


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## SkyHigh

T-minus an hour or so. I see that she's logged into AIM. Not saying a damned thing to her. 

Meditated a bit this morning to try and calm myself down. 

This is going to be an interesting day.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> And I'm staying with Conrad's advice on this one.
> 
> She made this bed. She's "proud" of leaving me? Good.
> 
> Have fun eating Kraft Dinner every night since you can't cook.


Detach youngin'.... 50,000 feet.

Get up there and stay up there.


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## SkyHigh

Stayin' at angels 50(50,000 feet for those non-aviation nuts) for awhile.

We had a decent day today. We read each other's list of bad memories before we torched them together. 

Things hit a stuck point when she said that I was "touchy-feely", where I put up my guard as fast as I could. The funny thing is, she said this as I gently rubbed her back, and she then put her arms around me. 

Felt the anger peaking, stuffed it down.

She commented on how she doesn't know what she's doing with this separation. I suggested the possibility of seeing a MC to give us some pointers since she clearly has no goal in sight. She scoffed at it. 

That's about when I had enough. My guard was at its max. Started quickly pulling away for my own good. Stayed that way through the night, when she broke down about having to go up north to her uncle's cottage for the weekend.

She's afraid of leaving me alone after last week. No matter how many times I told her that I would be fine. I even said that if it helped, she could crash at my apartment for the weekend, though I'd be working from 5PM-12AM both days. She scoffed at that idea, too. 

Finally had enough. Stayed in withdraw mode. 

At the end of the night she asked if she could have a hug, to which I calmly replied "But I'm too touchy-feely".

Walked her outside, she gave me a tight hug while I just kept my hand at the small of her back, looking away. She refused to let go for about two minutes. 

She then gently nudged me, to where I looked her in the eyes, and said "I can't stay forever...".

I replied with "I held on as loosely as I could. You're the one who can't let go."

Closed my eyes and walked away. 

Going to be staying at angels50 for awhile.


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## SkyHigh

Bonus moment:

"I don't know....it's weird. I never felt this way about anybody in my life before. Through the good, the tumultuous, it's like...I love you, and...you're a part of me. Like something that transcends romantic."

Straight from the STBXW's mouth. A basic description of true love from somebody who's all "Pfft, I don't CHOOSE to love anybody".


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Bonus moment:
> 
> "I don't know....it's weird. I never felt this way about anybody in my life before. Through the good, the tumultuous, it's like...I love you, and...you're a part of me. Like something that transcends romantic."
> 
> Straight from the STBXW's mouth. A basic description of true love from somebody who's all "Pfft, I don't CHOOSE to love anybody".


She wants you to own her chaos.


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## SkyHigh

That's not happening. I have enough chaos of my own. 

She now is concerned that I may be bi-polar and wants me to go to our local mental health facility. I'm so confused I don't know which end is up.


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## SkyHigh

I think I just hit Angels50. 

She's going up north to her uncle's cottage for the long weekend with her family.

Told me to call if I needed her.

Responded back with "I'll be here when you get back. Enjoy."

So THIS is what 50,000 feet feels like....just saved two pages regarding detachment. Practicing them.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> I think I just hit Angels50.
> 
> She's going up north to her uncle's cottage for the long weekend with her family.
> 
> Told me to call if I needed her.
> 
> Responded back with "I'll be here when you get back. Enjoy."
> 
> So THIS is what 50,000 feet feels like....just saved two pages regarding detachment. Practicing them.


Yes, yes, yes...


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## SkyHigh

So, it's been roughly 24 hours. I've been much treated it like she doesn't even exist. 

Blocked her from FB the other day. Got tired of seeing the inspirational BS posted all over her wall while knowing damn well she's doing nothing with herself. 

The block was for 48 hours. Come back to find that she removed me. Ha. 

Here it comes, Syn's advice in full swing......"The thing for you to do is not give two newly minted sh!ts what she's doing".


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## SkyHigh

Read over an AOL Instant Messenger log from a few days ago...

********: I just want to be able to hug you.

That's what she wants right now...I almost feel sick to my stomach denying physical contact....why is that? Any takers?


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## Conrad

What does she want?

She wants you to be Plan B?


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## SkyHigh

I don't know what she wants, to be honest.

Three months ago she was all "I don't want to be married anymore", to "I want us to just be friends", to now, "I'm so scared to lose you".

The three went from codependency to detachment on my end. 

Either I pulled away enough to observe and now she's panicking, or she's trying to keep me close enough.

I already warned her that if she's doing this to friend-trap me, I'll have no part of it.


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## SkyHigh

Additional information....

I have not contacted her at ALL since she went up north with her family. 

I plan not to upon her return, as well. 

Ever since reading about detachment, it's like I've been able to. At least far enough to work on my own issues.


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## SkyHigh

Was told that she cares about me more than I will ever know.

Now I'm unsure if I'm unable to process this through hurt, boundary pushes, or if uncorking has blown me over the edge. 

I feel like I'm digging my own grave...


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## SkyHigh

And she's back from up north.

I've squashed my resentment at the situation(me scrambling to keep working and keep my apartment afloat while she lives with her parents with no job/responsibilities) to keep my own emotions in check.

We meet up tomorrow.


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## SkyHigh

Started a hobby today, to better my own physical shape. 

Day 1 of Parkour training went well. This was something that we BOTH wanted to do(yet again, never followed through), now I've started it. Wondering when the backlash will begin.

Wondering if I'll care.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Started a hobby today, to better my own physical shape.
> 
> Day 1 of Parkour training went well. This was something that we BOTH wanted to do(yet again, never followed through), now I've started it. Wondering when the backlash will begin.
> 
> Wondering if I'll care.


Rock ribbed, cool, emotionless....

"I'm not ok with that"

"I don't like where this conversation is heading"


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## SkyHigh

She seems pretty happy about it. 

Dunno. Didn't have to guard or anything, though I'm still keeping the gloves up just in case.


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## SkyHigh

Conrad said:


> Rock ribbed, cool, emotionless....
> 
> "I'm not ok with that"
> 
> "I don't like where this conversation is heading"


I'm keeping those two locked and loaded, just in case.


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## SkyHigh

Staying at Angels 50 today. Doing some training for a bit, she will be coming by later this afternoon.

Read Homer McDonald's "Stop Your Divorce" twice, going on number 3. A lot of this stuff is a massive eye opener. Applying a few of the techniques to myself to start with. 

Should boundaries be pushed today, I will be giving a clear "Not okay with that". Been practicing saying it in the mirror this morning, as silly as it sounds.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Staying at Angels 50 today. Doing some training for a bit, she will be coming by later this afternoon.
> 
> Read Homer McDonald's "Stop Your Divorce" twice, going on number 3. A lot of this stuff is a massive eye opener. Applying a few of the techniques to myself to start with.
> 
> Should boundaries be pushed today, I will be giving a clear "Not okay with that". Been practicing saying it in the mirror this morning, as silly as it sounds.


It's not as easy as it sounds.

Our right brains "must" explain the righteousness of our view


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## SkyHigh

Well, there's nothing righteous in self-righteousness.

So, I'll be holding firm to my own identity and boundaries this time. This is the massive mistake I made 2 years into the marriage...I let my boundaries get steamrolled because "keeping her happy" took precedence over keeping myself happy.

No longer. 

I'm getting my self-confidence back. Even had an old high school flame message me after a new picture I posted on FB and tell me how hot I was looking. Rofl.

I get my own happiness. If she feels that divorcing me is going to "bring" her happiness, then by all means. As arrogant as it sounds, it'll be her loss.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Well, there's nothing righteous in self-righteousness.
> 
> You give defiant people what they say they want.
> 
> If you don't, you are to "blame" for whatever happens.
> 
> 
> So, I'll be holding firm to my own identity and boundaries this time. This is the massive mistake I made 2 years into the marriage...I let my boundaries get steamrolled because "keeping her happy" took precedence over keeping myself happy.
> 
> No longer.
> 
> I'm getting my self-confidence back. Even had an old high school flame message me after a new picture I posted on FB and tell me how hot I was looking. Rofl.
> 
> I get my own happiness. If she feels that divorcing me is going to "bring" her happiness, then by all means. As arrogant as it sounds, it'll be her loss.


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## SkyHigh

Uh...re-affirming my statement or forgot to add something, Conrad? 

EDIT: Never mind! Didn't notice your additions in my quote.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Uh...re-affirming my statement or forgot to add something, Conrad?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind! Didn't notice your additions in my quote.


I'll try again

You give defiant people what they say they want.

If you don't, you are to "blame" for whatever happens.


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## SkyHigh

Exactly.



> There’s another statement similar to “I don’t love you anymore,” that says, “I’m just not
> happy.” Well, the woman who says, “I’m just not happy,” is waving a big flag that says that
> she’s very immature, because she’s saying that the other person is responsible for making her
> happy. She’s saying, “It’s not my job to make me happy. It’s not my job. So obviously if
> I’m not happy, I’ve just got the wrong person.”


This is my situation. My happiness is now priority #1. 

If we get back together, we do. If we don't, oh well. 

I would PREFER that we get back together. Doesn't mean I need it to happen. 

If she PREFERS to divorce me, that's her thing. Not mine.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Exactly.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my situation. My happiness is now priority #1.
> 
> If we get back together, we do. If we don't, oh well.
> 
> I would PREFER that we get back together. Doesn't mean I need it to happen.
> 
> If she PREFERS to divorce me, that's her thing. Not mine.


And don't you dare contribute a DIME to something you don't want.


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## pseudonym

Wow. That quote.



> There’s another statement similar to “I don’t love you anymore,” that says, “I’m just not happy.” Well, the woman who says, “I’m just not happy,” is waving a big flag that says that she’s very immature, because she’s saying that the other person is responsible for making her happy. She’s saying, “It’s not my job to make me happy. It’s not my job. So obviously if I’m not happy, I’ve just got the wrong person.”


That hit me like a ton of bricks. I really like that quote and that viewpoint. It probably also helps illustrate why the divorce rate for 2nd marriages is 67% and 3rd marriages is 73%... Some people keep thinking that they're with the "wrong person" instead of staying with a spouse and focusing on making themselves happy instead of expecting the other person to.


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## Conrad

pseudonym said:


> Wow. That quote.
> 
> 
> 
> That hit me like a ton of bricks. I really like that quote and that viewpoint. It probably also helps illustrate why the divorce rate for 2nd marriages is 67% and 3rd marriages is 73%... Some people keep thinking that they're with the "wrong person" instead of staying with a spouse and focusing on making themselves happy instead of expecting the other person to.


If you try to explain that to your wife, I'll hit you with a stack of 2x4's.


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## pseudonym

Conrad said:


> If you try to explain that to your wife, I'll hit you with a stack of 2x4's.


Haha, you know I thought about it but... I won't, I won't. I did write out my thoughts as a "letter I'll never send" and then deleted it.


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## SkyHigh

I'm waiting for her own counselor to 2X4 her with that mindset. But I doubt it will happen. 

I find that most counselors look more at the "Let's get you to cope with this and prepare for the divorce" instead of the "Let's see where things went wrong, let's focus on you, then her".

The "wrong person" is a pathetic copout, IMHO.


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## SkyHigh

Day 1 of her last year at school, and she's miserable. 

Meanwhile, I've had a hell of a day off with my Parkour training and am in an AMAZING mindset. 

This is going to be the ultimate boundary test....can I keep my emotional momentum while she's in a crappy state. 

50,000 feet, GO.


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## Conrad

Important that she doesn't take her bad day out on you.

"I'm not ok with where this is headed"


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## moxy

SkyHigh said:


> So, I'll be holding firm to my own identity and boundaries this time. This is the massive mistake I made 2 years into the marriage...I let my boundaries get steamrolled because "keeping her happy" took precedence over keeping myself happy.
> 
> No longer.
> 
> 
> If she feels that divorcing me is going to "bring" her happiness, then by all means. As arrogant as it sounds, it'll be her loss.


A lot of us make that mistake! Now you know better!

Yes, it will be her loss. You can still be happy without her.

Hang in there, dude.


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## SkyHigh

Okay, so here's the day...

She had a horrible day at school. Things didn't work out as she wanted them to, and she's upset. Took the Identify, Empthaize approach. 

Simple. 

"And then I may have to switch schedules, but then I can't make plans with like, ANYBODY, and my hours will be at night instead of morning, and..." - Her

"I can see why you'd feel that way. Sounds frustrating." - Me

Long pause.............

"....guess that's the consequences of my actions." - Her

WHAT!?!?!?!?! DID SHE WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT JUST ADMIT FAULT?!

Went to CMHA to get some resources and pamphlets. As we were browsing some, she mentioned that she finished a book of mine that she mistakenly packed with her stuff. I was looking at a "Preventing Suicide" pamphlet, and ended up leafing through it, when she said...

"I'll bring it back to you next week. I bet you're just DYING to read it..." with a chuckle. 

Looked over at her and said, "Not cool. Not okay with that sort of joke."

Got a deer in headlights response, which then turned into a soft "I'm sorry...". 

Boundaries........installed. Remained relatively calm about the whole process. 

We headed back to my place, where we talked for a bit. She said that she has had ZERO confidence in herself...well before we got together. Well, great. :S

Things seemed alright. We went out to the cafe for dinner(she paid, I'm running short). Things were relatively decent, though she was still exceedingly negative.

She said that she felt she had nothing positive to look forward to.

Took a risk and said "Sure you do. Look at what you have."

Her: Like WHAT.

Me: Look hard. Last year of school. 

Her: *looking away* ...yeah. 

Me: ...holidays? Thanksgiving! You like Thanksgiving.

Her: ....mhm.

Me: Or the anniversary of when we first met, you were the one who wanted to plan that day, right? 

Her: *snaps* I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW I FEEL.

Held my stance. Said in a firm voice "I'm not cool with you snapping at me in public. I'm not the reason you had a bad day."

She got quiet after that, as if unsure of what to say or do next. 

I remained in a decent mood, in spite of things(my training has really helped me). We got back to my apartment, where she hung out with the cats, but looked like she was going to cry. I remained about my business until I noticed her sniffling. 

Kept calm, continued petting the cat myself. She looked over and noticed me smiling, sort of acting "as if" I'm happy. Continued to stare downwards. I asked her if she'd like to watch Sliders, since we got into it earlier in the year. She said no.

She then looked over at my PS3 and said "I should get one of those for myself", and when I asked why, she said "because you getting into Parkour is making me miss Mirror's Edge". Didn't bother responding. 

Quietly went over to the PS3 and booted it up, muting my TV, replacing the disc that was in it(Ace Combat: Assault Horizon) with Mirror's Edge. Kept the TV muted until it was at the title screen, then casually passed her the pad and unmuted it. She looked up at me in shock. 

"Why...?"

My response..."You said you missed it. Go right ahead and play it if you like."

Looked like she was ready to bawl. She quietly said "No thank you". So, I put on some music instead and was singing to Weezer. That's when she looked over and said "I'm sorry I'm no fun to hang out with".

I just responded with a "I never said you weren't."

She's in full emotional freeze at this point. Still in observational mode myself. 

I told her that she was welcome to stay as long as she liked, we didn't have to do anything. That's when she said she would just go. Told her "That's fine. I won't stop you."

She walked out and looked back at me before I walked out with her to the car. That's when she said, once again...

"Sorry I'm such a drag." Long pause as I kept my physical distance before she closed in and softly said "Thank you for trying to cheer me up". 

Said nothing in response. She got in the car as I walked up to my friend who just pulled in across the lot. Talked with him for a moment as she pulled away.

Glanced over and noticed her WIPING HER EYES. 

Interesting. Very, very interesting. 50,000 feet has its advantages for observation. The interesting part is that there was NO "Nice Guy" behavior. 

Conrad, anybody....takers?


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## Conrad

Sky,

This was the only weak part:


Took a risk and said "Sure you do. Look at what you have."

Her: Like WHAT.

Me: Look hard. Last year of school. 

Her: *looking away* ...yeah. 

Me: ...holidays? Thanksgiving! You like Thanksgiving.

Her: ....mhm.

Me: Or the anniversary of when we first met, you were the one who wanted to plan that day, right? 

Her: *snaps* I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT HOW I FEEL.
****************

And, look at the response you got.

Nobody likes to be "sold" anything - especially about how they feel.

You stood up well when she came after you on this, but don't go there.

I've read most of your stuff.

You likely got more introspection from her this evening than in the last year.

It's not an accident. You weren't "fixing" - except that one spot.


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## SkyHigh

So, I guess this night was handled well. 

It was VERY hard to remain at Angels50, but it was an eye-opener...

...I really hope that she means it when she says that she'll get into counseling. Even if it doesn't bring her back to me, I can at least sleep at night knowing that she finally put her demons to rest.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> So, I guess this night was handled well.
> 
> It was VERY hard to remain at Angels50, but it was an eye-opener...
> 
> ...I really hope that she means it when she says that she'll get into counseling. Even if it doesn't bring her back to me, I can at least sleep at night knowing that she finally put her demons to rest.


Quit fixing

Her demons are her issue.


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## SkyHigh

No intentions of fixing. I can't fix her. Only she can, and she has to find the will to do it within. 

If I had to take a guess, I'd say severely untreated clinical depression with an enabling "support" group that continues to keep her that way.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> No intentions of fixing. I can't fix her. Only she can, and she has to find the will to do it within.
> 
> If I had to take a guess, I'd say severely untreated clinical depression with an enabling "support" group that continues to keep her that way.


BUT... when you stood up to her tonight....

She saw herself.

She'll fix it when she's sick and tired of being sick and tired.


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## SkyHigh

So in other words....keep this up and maybe she'll see herself in the ways she's reacted to when she steps out of line. 

That's one way to put it.


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## SkyHigh

Another set of gems that I forgot to mention...

"I don't know who I am or have been"

"I feel like I hate the world"

"I don't know HOW to work on myself...it seems so...selfish...".

"I always try to ignore a problem because then it'll just go away..." - BIGGEST RED FLAG IN THE MARRIAGE THAT I HAVE CONSTANTLY ATTEMPTED TO GET HER TO REALIZE OVER FIVE YEARS

Co-dependency, lack of life skills, lack of drive, lack of...............


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> So in other words....keep this up and maybe she'll see herself in the ways she's reacted to when she steps out of line.
> 
> That's one way to put it.


THIS...

What else has worked?


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## SkyHigh

Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch. 

But THIS....has. 

Boundaries + Homer McDonald's approach. 

And my boundaries are actually REAL. Hers are more of a form of control, which I won't exactly play into.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Nada. Zip. Zero. Zilch.
> 
> But THIS....has.
> 
> Boundaries + Homer McDonald's approach.
> 
> And my boundaries are actually REAL. Hers are more of a form of control, which I won't exactly play into.


This... sounds like a plan.


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## SkyHigh

I keep running through yesterday in the back of my mind. 

Especially considering things such as her attitude versus my handling.

This was something I could NEVER do over the course of our marriage anymore...now, I can. 

Where this brings me, I don't know, but once again, from research...



> Negative feelings need conflict, need something to fight with. If you take away that reason for fighting, you take away their negative feelings.


What I did was lay down my sword. Yes, I've been hurt MANY times over the course of our relationship, and having issues letting go made it impossible for me to recover, coupled with self-confidence, and Nice Guy Syndrome. 

My weapon is now laid down. I think she's expecting it to stay up because of the fact that that was the status quo for us. 

Maybe she needs time to adjust to this. Maybe she never will. I don't know. 

Contact is now shifting to her being engaged for it on her end. I'm no longer going out of my way. Not only did I look needy and desperate, but I think she was expecting it. Now to see what she does when she DOESN'T get what she's expecting.


----------



## anonim

SkyHigh said:


> Another set of gems that I forgot to mention...
> 
> "I don't know who I am or have been"
> 
> "I feel like I hate the world"
> 
> "I don't know HOW to work on myself...it seems so...selfish...".
> 
> "I always try to ignore a problem because then it'll just go away..." - BIGGEST RED FLAG IN THE MARRIAGE THAT I HAVE CONSTANTLY ATTEMPTED TO GET HER TO REALIZE OVER FIVE YEARS
> 
> Co-dependency, lack of life skills, lack of drive, lack of...............


Do you think you might be focusing on her (problems) instead of keeping your sights on your self?


----------



## SkyHigh

Also adding...

I'm not the only one who was hurt over the course of this relationship. She was wounded quite a lot too, by both her own behavior and mine. 

This is the mindset I need to retain, now. We BOTH were hurt. 

Her:

- Emotionally unavailable
- Selfish, controlling, manipulative
- Her way or no way
- Inability to find a job in person, preferred applying online and then leaving it be, which ended up in no job
- Preference to be a "full-time student" though we BOTH had to work to maintain our finances

Me:

- Emotionally crippled over time
- Selfish
- Alcoholism
- Anger problem
- Inability to cope with certain circumstances between work and home

What's changed? So far, this is the objectives...

Her: 

Nothing to report

Me:

- Kicked alcoholism
- In counseling
- Anger problem, work in progress
- Coping mechanisms being repaired after enforcing my own boundaries.

She HAS admitted some forms of wrongdoing in the relationship, which is fine, now I can see that she'll only admit what she's willing to, right now. 

So, here comes the crazy question...

Why am I fighting for this, now? After how things have gotten, wouldn't it be less painful to walk away? Wouldn't it just be easier to find somebody else?

I guess the answer is....after looking over our 12 year history of friends, lovers, breakup, nothing, friends, lovers, spouses, breakup, limbo......

...there's something that kept drawing us to each other. I'd be a fool to walk away, especially if ALL baggage was cleared out. There's something between us that's unexplainable. 

Our baggage was what did us in. We lost our own identities in this relationship, which I've slowly began regaining. She has to regain hers before ANY progress can be made, as well as grow up a bit. 

However long this takes, I'll hang in. I have my eye on no other woman, but I also have more of an eye on myself. 

This approach is sticking. Progress will be reported.


----------



## SkyHigh

anonim said:


> Do you think you might be focusing on her (problems) instead of keeping your sights on your self?


I've got my sights on myself quite well. 

I had an anger problem, an inability to cope, co-dependency(which is breaking quite well), and a drinking problem. 

All of which except for the latter is a work in progress. The drinking has been ZERO for nearly three months out of self-preservation.


----------



## deejov

Wow, your story is very inspiring to read!

I am also a co-dependent, my husband is the passive aggressive (similar to your wife, in the sense that nothing is his fault, etc)

And yeah, co-dependent personality types are DRAWN to people with "issues". We want to fix them.

I've been cruising at 50,000 feet for quite awhile now. And I wouldn't go back down for anything. 

The bond that keeps you together --- after time, you may come to think that it's the co-dependent personality, or it may turn out to be love after all. 

Love being a bond that keeps you together is possible if she grows to a point where she can meet you partway. Anything less than that is you lowering your standards in life. 

And not drinking for 3 months is very impressive, good work!!!


----------



## SkyHigh

deejov said:


> The bond that keeps you together --- after time, you may come to think that it's the co-dependent personality, or it may turn out to be love after all.
> 
> Love being a bond that keeps you together is possible if she grows to a point where she can meet you partway. Anything less than that is you lowering your standards in life.
> 
> And not drinking for 3 months is very impressive, good work!!!


Thanks for the kudos on the sobriety. It's a great way to be. 

As for the bond being love, that's what I'm going with. She is seemingly afraid to admit it to herself, for herself, because then it could run the risk of her being wrong or being "weak".

She'll have to meet me halfway for this, but until she does, I remain at Angels 50.


----------



## Conrad

Sky,

_*>>Why am I fighting for this, now? After how things have gotten, wouldn't it be less painful to walk away? Wouldn't it just be easier to find somebody else?<<*_

People are sent to us/drawn to us for a reason.

We have things to learn from their presence in our lives.

I've learned so much from interacting with my current wife.

Letting her go would be a mistake before you learn what she was sent to teach you.


----------



## SkyHigh

That's why I refuse to let go.

That's why she is seemingly unable to. 

Maybe it's to learn what love really is. Maybe it's how to take a good, long look at ourselves and find ourselves once and for all, make ourselves whole. Maybe it's to show you that there IS somebody out there for you in your life, somebody made JUST for you, and you need to find the reasons why. 

I think I'm finding my reasons for why Kate was brought to me years ago, why we came together, why we split, why we came together again, why we split again, and why we're both in limbo. 

She's EXTREMELY unhappy with her life right now, but will she change it? That's on her. I can't push her. 

I HAVE, however...changed mine, greatly. Changes I've probably wanted to make for YEARS and was unable to.


----------



## Conrad

Rest assured... if you cut her loose before you learn your lessons, the next "Kate" will be a bigger badder version of this one.

It will keep happening until YOU learn what you must.


----------



## SkyHigh

She's such an amazing, sweet, beautiful woman, at the core.

Her own depression, lack of self-esteem, and zero confidence have her painting herself into this monster that only she sees. 

Same way I used to be, before I started having it break its chains on me.


----------



## deejov

Conrad said:


> Sky,
> 
> _*>>Why am I fighting for this, now? After how things have gotten, wouldn't it be less painful to walk away? Wouldn't it just be easier to find somebody else?<<*_
> 
> People are sent to us/drawn to us for a reason.
> 
> We have things to learn from their presence in our lives.
> 
> I've learned so much from interacting with my current wife.
> 
> Letting her go would be a mistake before you learn what she was sent to teach you.


Wow. A like doesnt say how much I also think this way.


----------



## SkyHigh

Same here...we were drawn to each other by chance.

I strongly feel that she IS in fact, my soulmate, a part of me. 

Using some fighter jet lingo, I view us as a pair of engines on say, an F-14. 

When one engine flames out, the other has to work that much harder, and it eventually flames out as well.

We had many moments throughout our marriage and relationship where we were both at full afterburn, keeping our marriage(the plane itself) at full speed. 

Then she flamed out while I remained at Afterburn. Eventually she flamed back in, just as I flamed out. Then we both flamed out, and it went into a spiral. 

Now, I'm back at maximum strength. The question is...can she. Will she. Does she even want to.


----------



## SkyHigh

New test:

True NC. My 90 day sobriety is on Monday. I'm not even mentioning it to her. 

Let's see if she can remember. If she shows, great, if she doesn't, oh well.


----------



## SkyHigh

DAMMIT THAT WAS STUPID.

She sent me a link mixing one of my favourite games(Assassins' Creed) with Parkour. Watched it, replied back with "Thank you for the link. Was a wicked video."

We had a quick chat over IM. Casual, lighthearted...

....big mistake, Sky. Way to close it with...

"I'm out. PM Training". - Me

"Ah okay, good luck." - Her

"Thanks. Shame you don't live here anymore, you'd have a blast with this." - Me, wearing a dunce cap.

DAMMIT SKY.


----------



## SkyHigh

Okay, back in the saddle. Somewhat. Somehow. 

Attempting to. Why is it so friggin' impossible to break away, break off, cut the chains?! 

Almost want to put my fist through the mirror.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> DAMMIT THAT WAS STUPID.
> 
> She sent me a link mixing one of my favourite games(Assassins' Creed) with Parkour. Watched it, replied back with "Thank you for the link. Was a wicked video."
> 
> We had a quick chat over IM. Casual, lighthearted...
> 
> ....big mistake, Sky. Way to close it with...
> 
> "I'm out. PM Training". - Me
> 
> "Ah okay, good luck." - Her
> 
> "Thanks. Shame you don't live here anymore, you'd have a blast with this." - Me, wearing a dunce cap.
> 
> DAMMIT SKY.


----------



## SkyHigh

I'll get on my knees and bow my head. 

2X4 away.


----------



## SkyHigh

Sobriety milestone tomorrow. 

Have not alerted her to it. Keeping it that way at the moment. 

I'll be heading to the meeting solo. If she shows up, great. If not, oh well. 

She expressed concern about changing her school schedule last week, and one of the things mentioned was that she couldn't make it to my milestones.

I told her that I'd be there regardless, her missing it isn't a big deal to me. 

Even though I'd LOVE to have her there for support.


----------



## SkyHigh

NC Day 2....cleared. 

Slight blip checking FB. Looking to recover.


----------



## SkyHigh

3 month sobriety today. Excited for later tonight.

Went through some moments in my head while I was waking up today. 

Found out that it was funny that MY issues were being projected as a major problem in the relationship....and then I remember a conversation, VIVIDLY, that we had a year ago.

"Babe...please...I'm BEGGING you here...you haven't been yourself for a long time. Look at how things are going, I'm scared. You won't talk, you won't seek help, you won't even THINK of going on meds, you have no family doctor....what's happening? What's wrong with you? I can't watch you self-destruct again, it hurts too much, I CAN'T do it...I'm so worried about you." - Me

She just sat there and then shot out with "So, you want me to go on MEDS...."

All I ever wanted was for her to get some help, to be her happy-go-lucky, goofy self again, the woman that I fell in love with, the woman that I married. Because she was refusing. Here, the point where the marriage went completely downhill. Maybe my resentment built to max because my coping ability finally zeroed out. 

Sigh. And now, I'M being portrayed as the horrible person with "issues"....

Dammit, when she was projecting to me early on I should have brought this one up. Kicking myself.


----------



## Conrad

And you somehow think that counterpoint would have made a difference?



SkyHigh said:


> 3 month sobriety today. Excited for later tonight.
> 
> Went through some moments in my head while I was waking up today.
> 
> Found out that it was funny that MY issues were being projected as a major problem in the relationship....and then I remember a conversation, VIVIDLY, that we had a year ago.
> 
> "Babe...please...I'm BEGGING you here...you haven't been yourself for a long time. Look at how things are going, I'm scared. You won't talk, you won't seek help, you won't even THINK of going on meds, you have no family doctor....what's happening? What's wrong with you? I can't watch you self-destruct again, it hurts too much, I CAN'T do it...I'm so worried about you." - Me
> 
> She just sat there and then shot out with "So, you want me to go on MEDS...."
> 
> All I ever wanted was for her to get some help, to be her happy-go-lucky, goofy self again, the woman that I fell in love with, the woman that I married. Because she was refusing. Here, the point where the marriage went completely downhill. Maybe my resentment built to max because my coping ability finally zeroed out.
> 
> Sigh. And now, I'M being portrayed as the horrible person with "issues"....
> 
> Dammit, when she was projecting to me early on I should have brought this one up. Kicking myself.


----------



## SkyHigh

Maybe not. 

Nah.

Definitely not. 

UGH. No wonder I was losing it in the separation...this is killing me.


----------



## SkyHigh

Tonight was GREAT.

Wonderful meeting, got my 3 month. 

We had a long talk afterwards at the park. Observed reactions. Tears started early on her end. 

Turns out she DOESN'T know what she's feeling, as she explains it. She also said that she is NOT happy. At all. 

She's miserable, admittedly. Not like I'm enjoying seeing her like that.

She said that she DID appreciate my efforts to cheer her up last week. Kept cool and said "you're welcome".

She said that she's done putting up fronts. A lot of the time, she said that she had them up because she didn't know what else to do, like she had nothing else. 

We both admitted serious depression on both fronts. As well as finally getting to the root of the problems. 

Zero coping ability with the current situations. Mentioned that I felt ignored. She agreed. I also admitted responsibility for ignoring her once we both hit our lowest points. 

She said that she's been afraid of change, no matter what the change, good, bad, it's all change. Hence the real reason she's been petrified of counseling, meds, anything. 

Talk went surprisingly well. Lots of stuff off of our respective chests, especially finding out that most of our problems were misunderstandings, depression rage-outs, et cetera. 

Then came the honesty. 

That I've changed a lot for the better. That she sees what I've done for myself, and it's nothing short of amazing. 

Took a chance and did it. 

Told her that if the issues that she had with me are removed, what does she have to go on.

Long, awkward pause. And then.

"I like this guy..."

So, of course, struggled to stay at 50,000, but said "Oh, that's great. Best of luck with him."

Then....saw her staring straight at me. Was told it was me.


----------



## pseudonym

SkyHigh said:


> "I like this guy..."
> 
> So, of course, struggled to stay at 50,000, but said "Oh, that's great. Best of luck with him."
> 
> Then....saw her staring straight at me. Was told it was me.


Interesting development. So, how did you take that? What's your plan?


----------



## SkyHigh

Keep doing what's working. 

She admitted that listening to others was a big mistake, because each situation and people are different. 

She also admitted that she never realized how depressed she really was until she took a good look at herself. 

Now the onus is on her to get into counseling and see where things go. 

We both agreed that it's too soon to even talk about ANYTHING future related. 

I think just the fact that I HAVE changed myself for the better is what's getting to her, now. In a good way.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Tonight was GREAT.
> 
> Wonderful meeting, got my 3 month.
> 
> We had a long talk afterwards at the park. Observed reactions. Tears started early on her end.
> 
> Turns out she DOESN'T know what she's feeling, as she explains it. She also said that she is NOT happy. At all.
> 
> She's miserable, admittedly. Not like I'm enjoying seeing her like that.
> 
> She said that she DID appreciate my efforts to cheer her up last week. Kept cool and said "you're welcome".
> 
> She said that she's done putting up fronts. A lot of the time, she said that she had them up because she didn't know what else to do, like she had nothing else.
> 
> We both admitted serious depression on both fronts. As well as finally getting to the root of the problems.
> 
> Zero coping ability with the current situations. Mentioned that I felt ignored. She agreed. I also admitted responsibility for ignoring her once we both hit our lowest points.
> 
> She said that she's been afraid of change, no matter what the change, good, bad, it's all change. Hence the real reason she's been petrified of counseling, meds, anything.
> 
> Talk went surprisingly well. Lots of stuff off of our respective chests, especially finding out that most of our problems were misunderstandings, depression rage-outs, et cetera.
> 
> Then came the honesty.
> 
> That I've changed a lot for the better. That she sees what I've done for myself, and it's nothing short of amazing.
> 
> Took a chance and did it.
> 
> Told her that if the issues that she had with me are removed, what does she have to go on.
> 
> Long, awkward pause. And then.
> 
> "I like this guy..."
> 
> So, of course, struggled to stay at 50,000, but said "Oh, that's great. Best of luck with him."
> 
> Then....saw her staring straight at me. Was told it was me.


Perfect.

Stay the course.


----------



## SkyHigh

It's interesting when you see where you went wrong in a marriage and were able to correct it, and find the spouse who left you now frozen stiff since there's no reaction.


----------



## Conrad

My favorite question.

What will she DO now?

She is unable to pin it on you.

You didn't DO anything


----------



## SkyHigh

She is well within her right to pin things I did wrong in the marriage.

I was not constructive with my anger. 

I was an alcoholic. 

My self-esteem locked me into a horrid job where I was continually hurt, which sucked what was LEFT of my self-confidence while trying to keep hers afloat completely dry to zero. 

I became incredibly depressed as a result. 

However, she has accepted some forms of what you could CALL responsibility. 

She wasn't there for me when I needed her most. 

She routined herself into hanging out with her mother on an unhealthy basis. 

She hasn't exactly looked into her passive-aggressive behavior, or even accepted that, yet. 

The difference is, I've owned and corrected my behavior, demons, and issues. 

She hasn't. Though I've been let into some really deep moments recently. I do wish that she told me about these beforehand...which is strange, because we were best friends for years. 

Crappy childhood. Constant comparisons to older sibling. Overly critical mother and father. Shown that emotions are a foreign concept. Constant rugsweeping by the family. Parents that basically tolerate each other. Manipulation everywhere. 

She's had next to no basis for a healthy relationship because she has no example of what a healthy relationship is.


----------



## deejov

Ah, when you strip the layers away, some people are very frightened by what they find.

Sometimes your courage to do it is an inspiration. And sometimes not.

If your goal is to keep moving forward in your own life, do just that. She will move forward with you, or not. 

The rest is just excuses. Yup, we all have them. But it's never too late to learn HOW to cope with life. You did, didn't you?

I fight the urge at this point to be judgemental. It's her life. She can choose to life it fully, or hide behind the crappy childhood excuse. Either way, you'll probably still always "love" her, but be careful you stay out of the rescurer trap. Let her fail, if that's what she wants to do.


----------



## SkyHigh

She mentioned today that she's tired of excuses. 

I sure hope that she follows through with that one. 

I do wish her the best of luck. 

Was discussing my possible move today to another province. 

She's pretty supportive of it. Glad for that.


----------



## SkyHigh

She's going into IC! 

We had a decent day yesterday, but I'm finding my self-control hard to keep down. I'll have to continue working on it. It's hard as hell. I hope I can find the means to do it. 

Today I made a monumental step.

I found out that I was adopted by my father, at about 10 years of age. It's a long-winded story, but it culminates in my self-hatred, lack of identity, *need* to be loved, and severe lack of self-confidence. 

My wife was quite helpful in hearing me vent, but at times, she also slipped severely to the point where I think I may have shut myself off completely...

...I won't go into detail, but it wasn't something I wanted to hear. 

This explains my issues to a T. This fits. 

Tonight, I walk down to the canal with a piece of paper with _his_ name on it, and I am torching it. As well as my previous TWO names beforehand. 

He's a memory to me, now. Hell, I never even met the bastard, and if he wasn't such a bad shot while drunk, I wouldn't be here. 

This is it. No turning back.


----------



## Conrad

Hang in there brother.


----------



## SkyHigh

Thank you, Conrad. I'll be trying my hardest. 

As for yesterday. We sort of had a talk about things lately. She said she's "leaning towards friends", which is fine, as much as my heart is still breaking. 

She said it's too soon to tell anything, which is true, we're only 3 months in as of today(didn't even realize it until I just noticed the date on my netbook). She said there's some resentment left over, but it's due to what happened last month. She said it made her feel scared. 

I can put myself in her shoes on that one. I've lost two people in my life to suicide. You'd think I would know better. 

Been looking objectively at a LOT of points in our marriage...things that didn't make an ounce of sense at times. Saying something at one point and then forgetting it, making me question my sanity. Willful victimizing of others even though she's clearly at fault. The constant negativity, even when I attempted to be positive. Constant criticisms and judgements of others over just about well...anything. Anger at her ex not wanting to "hang out" with her because he had a girlfriend. Texting ex behind my back and then lying about it, insinuating I was trying to control her(I at first said I was secure about it, but got less and less reasons to). Criticisms regarding myself. Devaluing my line of work. Impulsive spending while criticizing mine. Constant materialism. Seeming envy of others who had "more" than us. Buying food and then not eating it, resulting in a waste of money and food. Nothing ever being her fault. Everybody else is to blame. 

And yet still...I love her.


----------



## SkyHigh

Had a long talk with one of my friends. 

He said something that was pretty interesting and eye opening. 

"Sounds like you two are more in love with each other than you think."

Oh boy.


----------



## Conrad

Looks like she continues to seek happiness outside herself.

How often do you think that works?


----------



## SkyHigh

It doesn't. 

I'm guilty of this, too. I'm still trying to work on it.


----------



## SkyHigh

This has more to do with her actions than her words. 

I was semi-venting to a good friend today. 

She doesn't want to remove me from her life. She still makes effort to see me. She does little things for me, as I do them for her(though she's relatively suspicious of them). 

It's like the separation is starting to strengthen the base of our relationship again. 

I need to learn to hit the brakes and not read too far, but there's things that are there that have always been...

...we hit the forgiveness phase of the separation. She's starting to see things where she went wrong, and starting to identify the misunderstandings. I am, too. 

In her words...

"We fell victim to our own skewed perceptions of each other."

And she's completely right. This is what happens when your self-esteem and confidence plummets.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> I'm guilty of this, too. I'm still trying to work on it.


Are you speaking about it in IC?


----------



## SkyHigh

Yeah. 

Talking about it is one thing.

Believing it is another.


----------



## SkyHigh

Alright, after some job-hunting(which was done ON FOOT), was at my in-laws for a bit while STBXW printed off some more resumes for me(she has the files on her comp). 

Noticed that the place is uh...a hellhole. She really hasn`t done ANYTHING in three months....

Things that were placed from our OLD apartment are STILL there.....they've got to be losing their patience by now. Just a matter of time, I guess. I guess that this may have been a serious factor in our marriage that was getting to me over the years, living with somebody so ungodly messy and sighing with resignation that things wouldn't change. 

Had a quick chat. She said that she was sad and angry, with "life in general". I asked if she was upset about the marriage, and she confirmed that that pretty much falls into life in general. 

She's still unemployed. No will to look, either. 

Sigh. Cruising at 50,000 is painful.


----------



## Conrad

Once you drop the delusion, pain is often the result.


----------



## SkyHigh

Started a new job(and possible new LIFE) working for a Masonry Repair business, it's just me and one guy, but he's awesome for giving me a start while being so green. 

He said it's really lucrative. I like where this is going. Learned a lot in nine and a half hours today. 

Completely FORGOT that today was what I subconsciously call "STBXW Day". We usually have a casual meet up once a week. 

After a certain time, I called her cell real quick. Turns out she was sitting in my apartment with our cats, wondering where I was. I of course, had no track of time with today and couldn't give her a heads-up about me not being able to commit to today. 

She seemed okay, until she started breaking down and crying. Turns out the events of last month are still very, VERY raw and she said she was freaked out. Told her I was (obviously) fine, said I was working and would have to reschedule. She was completely beyond consolation at that point. 

Saw her after we got back from our last job, talked to her for awhile. She hasn't exactly been herself the whole separation, fluctuating between "strong, independent woman" and "sobbing mess", calling it as I see it. 

She gave me a hug and seemed VERY reluctant to let go. 

This is strange. For somebody who's so ready to move on, she certainly isn't ready to....meanwhile, I have accepted the breakup and have mentally prepared myself for whatever happens, but right now, the focus is more on myself than it is on her. 

This is starting to unhinge me, though I struggle to stay at 50,000.


----------



## moxy

Hang in there.


----------



## SkyHigh

Wife is taking the cats this weekend. Thankfully, because my place is too small, cramped enough, and they don't deserve this. That and I could really use as little stressors on me as possible.

At least, I HOPE she's taking them this weekend....there's a lot of things she said she'd do that she hasn't, yet...

- Go running
- Get into IC
- Stay in Al-Anon
- Stop eating junk food
- Get a job
- Focus on school

The last one is painful. For two years I always noticed she put a low priority on her schooling, and even tried to reason with her the importance of focusing on it. 

She has been unprepared for every assignment thus far, and the day before a VERY important one, she preferred to go to the beach with her ex and his friend. 

Sigh. I still have focus on myself and my possible future in masonry(I actually have found that 18 hours at this job have given me a LOT of perspective as well as a LOT of sun and good exercise). I would just hate to see her education pissed away because she won't focus. 

She even skipped a class because she was out until well into the morning with one of her friends. Same problems, different living situation. 

On a side note...one of my neighbours said I looked "sickly" and that I lost too much weight. I guess running, not eating garbage, and working a very physical job now makes you sick.


----------



## SkyHigh

Now in a full state of NC. I needed to do this from the beginning, but unfortunately, separation "crazies" took the two of us over. 

I'm not initiating an ounce of contact. She is taking the cats hopefully soon. 

Still in relationship limbo. Haven't spoken to her since Wednesday.

Though, on Wednesday, when she hugged me, she said I felt skinny(I was quite heavy when I was drinking, I've now lost nearly 50 lbs between Parkour, quitting drinking, and work). Jokingly said "I don't have to suck it in anymore".

Got a rate from my counselor for MC, and it's affordable. Guess when we hit our turning points and keep going further, it'll be an option in the future. 

Sore, tired from work, but satisfied to learn something new.


----------



## SkyHigh

Interesting tidbit #2....

At the beginning of the separation I had it thrown in my face by her friend that I "never respected her" and that she "took care of you for three years and you were ungrateful".

Except that during the three years waiting for my residency, I worked TEN times, jeapordizing my chances at Residency if I got caught. 

I brought that up to STBXW and her only response was "...I could have sworn I told her that."

In chess terms........check.


----------



## SkyHigh

Went out with her tonight for ice cream. Casual, laid-back time. Just shooting the sh!t. 

Still clearing up a lot of the problems between us. Things aren't looking too bad. 

Her IC has started. This'll be interesting. 

She had a great time and thanked me for it. Considering that I royally botched this date when we were married(under severe duress and heavily distracted), this was a nice change. 

Nearing 4 months. Things may be turning. Not sure yet. Hanging in at 50,000 for now, no rescuing. Staying casual, keeping this up.


----------



## BeYou

From NC at noon to ice cream date later in the day?  how did that happen?

Glad it went well though!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SkyHigh

Lol...I was contacted out of the blue after a business-like e-mail regarding our cats(she is taking them, my place is too small and it's unfair to keep them cooped up). 

Kept up a casual conversation and we ended up talking about ice cream for some odd reason, so we just did it.


----------



## BeYou

Well sounds like it went well, so good stuff!

Remember to be patient though. It's hard to not want to force more of these little moments.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SkyHigh

Yeah, patience is a virtue that I'm slowly trying to get grips on. 

The more we meet up, the more air gets cleared. Maybe this is the natural course of progression, but I don't know where it's headed. 

Stop forcing it and it comes to you. 2X4ing myself for my actions at the start of this whole thing. But hindsight is 20/20.


----------



## BeYou

What do you mean when you say "stop forcing it". What did you change? And what was the result? Is she initiating now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SkyHigh

Being a guy, I'm a "fixer" by nature. In fact, I was mostly proactive when we were having problems.

Being a "fixer" living in a country different than where he was born, the stress is doubled, so of course I was clingy and frightened. I've throttled back and since, we seem to be enjoying each other's company. 

As for my own changes, I've done a lot for myself and am proud of them. I guess it's on me now to have them stick, for myself. Her seeing it is a benefit, but one of her issues with me was "unavoidable promises".

Yet everything I said I would do at the beginning, I've done.


----------



## Conrad

When you go quiet, I worry.


----------



## SkyHigh

Sorry, Conrad. I'm still kicking. Somehow. I made another attempt...after some talk with CMHA's Mobile Crisis Team, we found what happened, and WHY my moods have been rapidly cycling...

My EMDR had backlashed something fierce. My Crisis Counselors have attributed it to something that neither of us thought...

....Emotional Flooding.

In other words...I've been in PTSD for quite some time. WELL before the separation, probably during the marriage. 

Meds backlashed into suicidal ideation. Flooding leading to sleep deprivation. Unable to make a decision. Unable to move forward. 

In short...what my counselors described was, "You're stuck in the past, with the present, the lines are blurred, and right now, you have NO reality."

So...this is where it is. 

I'm out of my apartment and staying at my in-laws for a couple of days. Once CMHA gets back to us, I'm headed into TH. There's 24/7 support housing, group therapy, and I'm going to be going to the extremes of EMDR while under a fresh(and potent) set of meds. 

Wife seemed concerned when this was explained to her. However, my in-laws have been very, VERY supportive of this. I seriously couldn't ask for a better set of stand-in parents in a moment like this. Went out for dinner with them and my wife tonight and we had a good time...

...it's interesting. Kate and I are interacting much like when we were first married....casual conversation, watching TV together, cracking harmless jokes at each other, no extra distractions...even earlier before she went to bed, sitting on the same couch while I did some PTSD research and looking at the funny pictures she was sharing on Facebook. 

This is going to get crazy....er. Now the marriage DEFINITELY is in limbo, but who knows...I do find this hilarious, though, from others...

"You're NOT focusing on you, and THAT'S why you're like this!"

"GET OVER IT AND MOVE ON"

"You're LIVING IN THE PAST, MOVE ON"

"SHE IS NOT YOUR WIFE ANYMORE, GET THAT AND MOVE ON"

Simple explanation...my moods had rapid cycled for a lot of the separation, even 180-ing had thrown me off...in fact, it may have even made things worse. 

Planning on having a talk with my wife before I go into Transitional. I could use the daily counseling. Something had seriously thrown me over the edge out here, and we're starting to isolate what they were. Now to take the final step and go. 

According to my FIL, "You're going to be completely reborn."

Turns out that the alcoholism was likely me stuffing my PTSD. 

Kate's not the crazy one....I was. :scratchhead: The traumas of this past year had really pushed my limits(and hers), and the reason I was so "stuck in the past" was due to...well...something that I thought only happened in warzones.


----------



## SkyHigh

Reconciliation is off. For good.

I have my own reasons. I do not associate myself with people who aren't truthful and treat feelings like playthings. 

_But you didn't have to cut me off
Make out like it never happened and that we were nothing
And I don't even need your love
But you treat me like a stranger and that feels so rough
No you didn't have to stoop so low
Have your friends collect your records and then change your number
I guess that I don't need that though
*Now you're just somebody that I used to know*
_


----------



## moxy

Hope you are okay, SkyHigh. What changed between your last post and the one before it? You sound like you're going through a lot. Hang in there, guy.


----------



## SkyHigh

Simply put, I became privy to some info that I shouldn't have read.

But this was all an act on her part. For the last year of our marriage, it was an act. 

I have never felt so hurt, so betrayed, so devastated, and shredded.

I am heading back home this week. Nothing is working out here, I am spinning my wheels, it's over. Completely. I'm done. 

Even the termination of our child was a lie. I was worried about the circumstances. She did it because of our "crappy marriage".

This is unforgivable. I am done. No friendship. No hope for reconcilation. No nothing.


----------



## Conrad

Sky,

The journey is often painful.

I am sorry for your pain, but I'm glad you have the closure you were seeking.

Do not be a stranger.


----------



## SkyHigh

We spoke about this today. I was grabbing some documents from my old apartment. 

I told her that I felt that I had been strung along. She said she was sorry.

I then asked her straight up..."Is this like...a never-ever going to happen again?"

She said that may be the case. That too much had happened over the relationship, and then the separation. She's right. I may not ever trust her again, either...

My heart had broken, right in front of her. I think hers did, as well. We cuddled up on my bed for about 20 minutes, both of us crying. I told her I was sorry. She asked what for. I said everything. 

She said the same. We kissed.

We headed back to the temporary housing that I was in. Held hands in the car and stared at each other for a moment. 

This is going to be one painful, tearful goodbye. Even though I'm hurt this much, as is she...we may not be able to fully let each other go. 

I head home this weekend, back to the US. My mother is worried about the suicide attempts and has found plenty of mental health resources. 

Even with my sobriety, my alcoholism was what killed this marriage on my part. I may never forgive myself.


----------



## Conrad

Bs. You know better than that


----------



## SkyHigh

Even if I did sober up, what would change? Would we still be together? Would things still have worked out? I don't know.

But new knowledge has shown me her true colours, and I'm not impressed.....even friendship is in danger, now.

I'm sorry that I wasted everybody's time here on this joke of a R.


----------



## Conrad

When people show you what they are, believe them.


----------



## moxy

SkyHigh said:


> Even if I did sober up, what would change? Would we still be together? Would things still have worked out? I don't know.
> 
> But new knowledge has shown me her true colours, and I'm not impressed.....even friendship is in danger, now.
> 
> I'm sorry that I wasted everybody's time here on this joke of a R.


Dwelling on what could have been will keep you stuck emotionally. You never know. When you wonder about those things, imagine three other ways it could have gone -- my therapist taught me that trick and it helped break the cycle of what if that I was in so often; might help you, too.

Is the new knowledge more info about her betrayal or something about her character and nature? People are so complex and the myriad ways in which they hurt each other will always be surprising and painful. Just remember that you shared good times as well as bad and it is possible to think fondly about the good while still remembering that the bad are the reasons that you both needed to part ways. The trickle truth sorts of discoveries about betrayal sneak up and punch you in the kidneys, don't they?

You didn't waste anyone's time, not even your own. You gave it your best shot, but things fell apart because she didn't. You learned about yourself. Others learned about the process. You owe nothing to anyone and if people don't wanna read your thread they don't have to; so, anyone reading is choosing to be here.

Good luck with your upcoming move. Try and be kind to yourself. Get a good book or movie to distract you during your trip (assuming you're taking a plane) to keep your spirits up.


----------



## Conrad

Sky,

Moxy is on point.

Where else would you have learned these lessons?

She was sent to teach you.

You learned.

Too bad she took a pass.


----------



## SkyHigh

This is our last week together...lord knows what will happen....

She's NOT happy that I know about her conversations.


----------



## SkyHigh

To top it off, she never had any inclination to reconcile. Meaning I did all this work, and would have eaten a D anyway. 

Then there's other things that I've found out...

- She never was telling the truth of what she was doing to other people

- She has been portraying herself as a victim of abuse (I may not have been the nicest of guys at my lowest points, but abuse...?)

- Friends telling her to stay as far from me as she can, and that my suicide attempt was an attempt to get her back(clearly it wasn't). 

- Been telling one friend that she was dropping off the cat food when I wasn't around so that she didn't "have to get reeled back in"...she's been around every time that she did. We've even gone out afterwards.

Once again.....two-faced nature...I may never trust her fully ever again....


----------



## moxy

She sounds conflicted and confused, somewhere between portraying an image for others and experiencing whatever she feels. I don't think that listening to her convos helps you right now because it's poking you in the wound. How do you know what is real and what is bravado? You both need space and distance. You're reacting to her, but you need to get some freedom to figure out what you want, too. Hang in there, buddy.


----------



## SkyHigh

Annnnnd, the final stab......

.....she checked out of the marriage at LEAST a year ago.....................

...but "didn't want to hurt your feelings".....

That's okay, just take another glass shard and dump it in my heart. That's perfectly fine. 

She said that all she wants is her best friend back. Decision making time, now......leaving in 2 days....


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> This is our last week together...lord knows what will happen....
> 
> She's NOT happy that I know about her conversations.


Integrity is defined as remaining loyal to others while they are absent.


----------



## SkyHigh

Yep...two different sets of stories....

Glad to be rid of me while not in my presence.

"I miss you so much" in my presence.

Lies. Two-faced natures. Zero integrity.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Yep...two different sets of stories....
> 
> Glad to be rid of me while not in my presence.
> 
> "I miss you so much" in my presence.
> 
> Lies. Two-faced natures. Zero integrity.


From 50,000 feet, that's some ugly stuff.


----------



## SkyHigh

Moral of the story....

- Watch their friends, especially if they're prone to meddling/unsolicited advice.

- Always stick to yourself. Never EVER take any crap from your SO. I took way too much from her.

- Boundaries are crucial. If your wife/husband thinks they're a married single, wouldn't hurt to put a stop to it before it becomes a problem.

- The marriage comes before anything. Period. 

- If you can't trust your spouse, leave. 

Lessons I've learned. Especially during this separation.


----------



## SkyHigh

Tonight is our last night together before I head back.

She's now upset and crying. The reality is setting in. Guess I really WAS being taken for granted during this entire separation.

She asked if there was anything I wanted to do. I said no preference.

She wants to take me to Niagara Falls. 

I asked why.

"Because that was our first date."

.......:scratchhead:

I also told her to take off the mask for tonight. The false strength isn't necessary, because after tomorrow, it won't matter anymore. Guess we'll see how it works out...tonight is going to be the hardest night of my life. 

I'm leaving my heart on the table. Wonder what she'll do in return. But I'm tired of this "strong, independent" facade when I and others can see through it.

Will keep you all posted on how this night goes. No matter what happens, it will happen and that is that.


----------



## Conrad

Easy to understand loving someone that hurts you.

But, you know what she's saying out the other side of her mouth.


----------



## SkyHigh

Yeah.....tonight though, I'm not cruising at 50,000 feet. After tonight, it doesn't matter any longer.


----------



## moxy

SkyHigh said:


> Yeah.....tonight though, I'm not cruising at 50,000 feet. After tonight, it doesn't matter any longer.


It does matter. That is, you matter. So, hang in there, no matter what happens and just take care of yourself.

Wishing you strength.


----------



## SkyHigh

I meant to say that the outcome of the marriage doesn't matter any longer. She was never going to reconcile. 

Now she wants sentimental memories for our last night. Dunno how to take this, or what she'll say....

But again, after tonight, none of it matters any longer.

Maybe she'll learn not to take people for granted.


----------



## SkyHigh

I KNEW IT. I F*CKING KNEW IT.

"I _was_ thinking of getting back together...."

Head. Meet wall. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.


----------



## SkyHigh

Last six hours....she's asleep. refusing to get up. 

My father is on his way. Guess we'll see how hard this hits her when I'm actually gone or when it comes close to it...


----------



## SkyHigh

Now she's up and acting like it doesn't matter that I'm out of here.

Good God...make the confusion stop....


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Now she's up and acting like it doesn't matter that I'm out of here.
> 
> Good God...make the confusion stop....


It will stop as soon as you are truly gone.


----------



## SkyHigh

I'm back home. Sitting on the living room couch with my laptop in my old home....I feel numb....

I haven't contacted her to tell her that I made it back okay. 

She has to open contact before I even say a damned word. 

JUST before I was about to go, I got the I'm going to miss you's, I love yous, everything. 

Had I stayed? Nothing at all.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> I'm back home. Sitting on the living room couch with my laptop in my old home....I feel numb....
> 
> I haven't contacted her to tell her that I made it back okay.
> 
> She has to open contact before I even say a damned word.
> 
> JUST before I was about to go, I got the I'm going to miss you's, I love yous, everything.
> 
> Had I stayed? Nothing at all.


How does that look @50,000 feet?


----------



## SkyHigh

That she only cared when she had something to lose.

That she takes those around her for granted.

This may be a lesson that she'll never learn.

And a painful lesson that I learned, though the red flags were there that she takes people for granted.


----------



## SkyHigh

I also made sure to say this the night before I left.

"At the beginning, I told you what I was going to do. And I followed through on it. Every single word. You may never find a guy who will fight harder for his marriage. And you strung me along every step of the goddamned way.

And you were so concerned with being 'right', being 'strong', worrying what your friends thought of you....

...you walked out of my life. I'm walking out of yours.

Now, ask yourself....proud of yourself?"

Response?

"........no."


----------



## bandit.45

Even if she does contact you...why in the hell would you respond?

Cut the cord for good. You have nothing left to prove.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## SkyHigh

Not sure anymore...emotionally numb to adjusting as well as new locale back home....

Kilometers to MPH.

Canadian to American currency.

Weird watching American television again.

Wishing she was here. Wishing I was home.


----------



## Conrad

American TV sucks


----------



## SkyHigh

Just feeling...lost. 

Today would be Thanksgiving.

If we were still together, we'd be cooking together for the day, to head to Toronto for the holiday, see everybody, talk to the family......

.....and I'm here on the couch, with my netbook, on the verge of tears...


----------



## moxy

Sorry, man. That's unpleasant.


----------



## SkyHigh

She contacted me out of the blue last night.

Said she spent all Thanksgiving crying. 

Still is. 

Said she misses me.

Told her that she never bothered while I lived ten minutes away, why bother now. 

Think it might be hitting her...


----------



## moxy

Some people don't understand what they've got till they lose it. I'm sorry that you had to feel this so acutely and that she's only just now hurting over your situation. 

Are you getting a bit more settled in to your new place? I'd suggest finding a good park nearby because walking in the fresh air is good for dispelling some of the distress.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> She contacted me out of the blue last night.
> 
> Said she spent all Thanksgiving crying.
> 
> Still is.
> 
> Said she misses me.
> 
> Told her that she never bothered while I lived ten minutes away, why bother now.
> 
> Think it might be hitting her...


Just think of the conversations you read.

If she persists, I'd bring them up.

May be important for her to know you see her as she is - and no longer as you wish her to be.


----------



## SkyHigh

When I confronted her about that, the excuses were a mile a minute. 

NOW she's got a complaint on Facebook about people talking about her instead of to her. 

What goes around...


----------



## SkyHigh

Isolated the cause...our mutual friends are dropping her like a bad habit.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Isolated the cause...our mutual friends are dropping her like a bad habit.


Good.

She deserves to be shunned.


----------



## SkyHigh

Whenever we hung out with these mutual friends, she would sit in the corner and say NOTHING, wouldn't interact with anybody, was generally unpleasant to be around, basically avoided everybody.

And now she's surprised?


----------



## SkyHigh

Oiy, why is cutting the cord so impossible to do right now.


----------



## SkyHigh

Three......THREE PEOPLE.

SHE PITCHED A FIT OVER THREE PEOPLE. 

PEOPLE WHOM SHE HASN'T EVEN SPOKEN TO. 

.........removing myself from the situation has left me able to see the mess left behind........good.......God......


----------



## SkyHigh

She threw the ultimate pity party last night on Facebook. I couldn't even believe what I was reading. 

Friends count steadily decreasing. 

Went so far to make a post on my own that said "Hey look! A pity party! I'll bring the tea and crumpets!" 

Her OWN FRIENDS WERE JOINING IN with sarcastic comments.

This has actually gone beyond pathetic. 

I wish I could go back to 2007, when she first was pitching Facebook to me and how "awesome" it was and all the "fun things" you can do on it, and I remember telling her that I found Facebook to be a BAD IDEA and that it was going to get between us very quickly with her addiction to social media.........

Fast forward over the years.

Dinner's ready? "Alright, lemme finish what I'm doing on Facebook".

Running late for something? "I just have to finish my farming on FarmVille!"

Tired of not spending time together? "Okay, let me just finish up on The Sims so I can get my nice things and then we'll go out".

Head. Continue to meet wall for years. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.


----------



## pseudonym

I can see how she is doing... How are YOU doing right now?


----------



## SkyHigh

Lost. Completely.

Home feels foreign. The country I called home for 25 years feels like I don't even belong here.


----------



## pseudonym

SkyHigh said:


> Lost. Completely.
> 
> Home feels foreign. The country I called home for 25 years feels like I don't even belong here.


That feeling you have might just be because you're in New Jersey! Kidding, of course. I say that as someone who grew up in New Jersey but left when I graduated college. Whenever I return there, it just feels like a foreign land (I've come to get accustomed to the slower pace of the Midwest).

Do you have old friends that you can go see now that you're there? Any job prospects lined up? Having _anything_ to distract you from her could be a big help right now... even if it is just working on a new project that might interest you.


----------



## Conrad

Would have been helpful to be fluent in the subject of "Fitness Testing" before Facebook was released.


----------



## SkyHigh

More contact.

She told me she doesn't want to move on. 

That she feels that moving on would be removing me from her life, which she doesn't want.

Tried to make it abundantly clear that she walked out of our life, out of MY life, and can't just walk back in at her leisure.

Frustrating, difficult conversation. She even said that she's afraid to get back together because she's afraid we'll hurt each other again and end up in the same scenario. 

"I want to be your friend". 

After nearly two hours of back and forth, I finally did it............I cut the cord. I told her I wanted no contact. 

She doesn't get it. I told her that she has no bearing on my life, and I should have no bearing on hers. She tries to explain that I DO have bearing on her life because I'm important to her.

Explained it again. Finally just cut the cord. Told her she shouldn't be talking to me, she should be talking to her counsellor. 

Now, to bed, where I lay here staring at the ceiling wondering if I made the right move.


----------



## SkyHigh

It's now been one week back home.

Since, I have....

- Gone to my doctor, kept my meds prescription up.
- Got to the Behavioral and Wellness Center to re-start therapy.
- SNAGGED A JOB. 
- Adjusted...albeit slowly.
- Have a short-term and long-term plan for how to survive down here again.

Wife still contacting. "I don't remember how to not have you in my life". Going on about the "deep connection" that we have that transcends romantic. Yet she doesn't want a relationship with me.

What is it about people that leave and then never leave us alone. 

My feelings status..........?

*Indifference.*

Conrad, Syn, any takers?


----------



## Conrad

Indifference?

After seeing her little chats with her Facebook toxic friends, I have to applaud your detachment.

I'd be enraged - when I realize what she's saying out of the other side of her mouth.

If she persists, you may wish to bring up that little nugget.

May help her come to grips with the pos that she currently is.


----------



## SkyHigh

I also asked her how she'd feel if I just ended up in a new relationship, and she said she'd be upset.

So...hit the brakes and cut the afterburners....._she'd be upset?!_

She's the one who left. Yet she'd be upset if I moved on. 

I asked myself today, what do I feel for her...?

Ended up staring in the mirror. Saying nothing.


----------



## SkyHigh

She's clinging. Hard.

Yet she didn't when I was up there.

This is why I'm frustrated, not to mention angry. 

But as for my feelings for her, she's the one who said it best, "I have no romantic feelings left for you".

Well, peachy. I feel *nothing*.


----------



## SkyHigh

Digging through the conversation, I found myself saying this to her...

"Yes, I'm important to you. So important that you don't want to maintain or repair a relationship. Do you have any idea what that sounds or feels like?

'You're so important to me and I love you so much but I don't love you enough and you're not important enough to maintain a relationship with, and even though I'm sleeping with somebody else and giving my heart to somebody else, I want you to know that I love YOU and we'll always be friends!'"

That one hasn't sunk in.


----------



## SkyHigh

While rooting through my attic with my father for Halloween decorations, came across a box with a lot of my stuff in it...

...including a letter from her while we were engaged.

I find myself staring at it...the handwriting almost seems....foreign.......three months ago I would have bawled my eyes out.....


----------



## SkyHigh

We were on Skype briefly earlier tonight.

For the first time....I could look at her and not see the woman who deleted our wedding album, posted all the quasi-inspirational BS, talked behind my back, lazy, unmotivated mess who didn't bother working while I was breaking myself backwards....

....in fact...I almost didn't recognize her at all....not even as the woman who I thought was the love of my life.

.....I'm...._there_. 

I'm actually there. Moving back home...and I'm there...4 months ago today she left my life....and I'm there.


----------



## moxy

Glad you're able to keep detached. Means what you're doing is working for you.


----------



## SkyHigh

I'm still taking stock of what I've done since I got here....

And what I've accomplished thus far. What I can accomplish in the future.

While she still is living with her parents, refusing to work("If I get a job, then they'll make me pay RENT"), they just bought a CAR for her...their place was a mess when I left, it probably still is, because she refuses to get her stuff out of there and would much rather hoard it, making my ILs as miserable as she is. 

Meanwhile I've cranked up my motivation without even realizing it, even though I'm still numb. 

I go tomorrow at 10AM for a psych evaluation, then 1PM to my new job to fill out paperwork and get ready to work on rebuilding from square one.

I may live with my parents now, but the thing I'm NOT, is a sponge. 

One of my friends told me something comforting....

"She'll never realize it, but when she does, it'll hit her like a sack of bricks...she lost a hell of a hardworking, dedicated guy that she should never have let go of."

...I like that.


----------



## SkyHigh

Going down to the docks tonight.....

...taking that letter from when we were engaged....and torching it.


----------



## SkyHigh

Considering torching the wedding photo on my dresser...........


----------



## moxy

If it will make you feel better, do it. Purging one's feelings is cathartic for some folks.


----------



## SkyHigh

I decided against torching the wedding photo. 

Conflicting feelings about it. Didn't feel...right.

My wedding ring sits in the corner of the frame. In the other corner of the frame, is a stone engraved with "Faith".

What it means to me, I'm not entirely sure....I was about to dismantle the frame when I felt a pang in my chest. Like some force keeping me from doing it. 

I tried fighting it...I couldn't. 

Why....


----------



## moxy

You made this a big part of your life. You will let it go when it feels right to you. Pay attention to your instincts.

If it bothers you to see the photo, just put it in a drawer. Did you unpack it when you arrived? Does it feel out of place now that you're getting settled in to your new place? 

I suggest putting up a picture (photo, magazine page, painting) that makes you feel good about your goals or your self or that motivates you. 

You can't erase the past, just cope with it and how things change. But, it's Great that you're thinking about "why" instead of being impulsive or reactionary.


----------



## SkyHigh

Maybe it's the knowledge that she is miserable. 

Maybe it's knowing that if I do this, I can't take back the action. 

Maybe it has to do with the fact that no matter how upset, hurt, angry I am at myself, or her....and everything that's happened, and how it turned out...that I can't do it.


----------



## moxy

Torching the photo or surviving the split?

You'll get through this and your future will hold what it holds. Hang in there.


----------



## SkyHigh

Torching the photo. Burning a piece of history. 

Knowing that once it's turned to ash, it can never be put back together.


----------



## moxy

If it were me, I'd put it in a drawer instead of torching if.


----------



## SkyHigh

I'm undecided at the moment....

She did a lot of reminiscing last night during a conversation. For a marriage that was supposedly "miserable", she sure had no problem going on about things she loved. 

I don't know what to make of it anymore.


----------



## moxy

Just choose not to think about it right now and do other things. 

Pick out clothes and cologne for your new work day. Take yourself to a fancy dinner or a game. Change the focus into you.


----------



## Decorum

If I can just jump in here skyhigh, her reminiscing may just be her way of processing her emotions to move on, dont read too much into it.


----------



## pseudonym

SkyHigh said:


> I'm undecided at the moment...


I wouldn't torch it necessarily unless that really does something for you. Don't try to burn your past. Your marriage is still a part of you even after it is over and you learned lessons that you will carry with you forever. Put the picture in a scrapbook of your life. It may be fun to look back on someday decades from now as a reminder of how far you've come.


----------



## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> I'm undecided at the moment....
> 
> She did a lot of reminiscing last night during a conversation. For a marriage that was supposedly "miserable", she sure had no problem going on about things she loved.
> 
> I don't know what to make of it anymore.


I wouldn't burn it.

I'd put it away and forget about it.


----------



## pseudonym

How's it going, Sky?


----------



## abandonmentissues

I applaud you, Sky. Even though I've only been on here a few months, I am envious of your level of detachment and I am proud of how far you have come. She is an idiot to have let you go and your friend is right...someday it will hit her. Like a semi truck. 

And trust me when I write this. A hard working, motivated, moral, and caring guy like you? I'd snatch you up in a minute. Any decent woman would.




And about the picture thing...don't feel bad. All of the pictures of me and my stbxh are in a box(that he packed the next morning he told me it was over and to leave) at the bottom of a closet(which I keep only because of our newborn daughter...because she might want them someday, I guess). 

Except one. It's of us on our wedding day, standing at the altar...with it is a letter he wrote to me(which seems like forever ago now) telling me how he wanted to grow old with me and how much he loved me. 

The reason I haven't trashed them? Well...honestly I don't know. I think I just don't have it in my heart yet to do something so permanent...once you pull the trigger, it can't be undone, you know?

Maybe one day...but not today, and probably not tomorrow either...or the next day. So for now, the picture stays in the bottom/secret compartment of my jewelry box.


I'm sorry you are going through this but I am glad you are getting yourself back on your feet. You are a good guy, my friend.


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## pseudonym

Sky, it's been a long time since we've heard from you. I hope all is well.


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## moxy

You doing okay, Sky?


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## pseudonym

Wish we'd hear something from Sky just to know how he's doing. Been too long.


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## moxy

I was wondering, too. Hope he is just busy having fun.


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## SkyHigh

Rejoice, I am alive and well.

I'm sorry that I haven't updated.


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## SkyHigh

And I guess I'm doing alright.

Wife and I are meeting up in February. Outcome is anybody's guess.

I have also been diagnosed with Schizoaffective Disorder and Major Depressive Disorder. Both are being treated.


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## moxy

SkyHigh said:


> And I guess I'm doing alright.
> 
> Wife and I are meeting up in February. Outcome is anybody's guess.
> 
> I have also been diagnosed with Schizoaffective Disorder and Major Depressive Disorder. Both are being treated.


Glad you're ok!

What prompted the meeting up plan for February? Are you feeling good about it?

New diagnoses are always a bit of an effort to adjust to, I think. I hope your psychiatrist is good for you and that your plan to treat things is going well.


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## SkyHigh

I'm feeling good about it. If anything, just to see each other again after some time would be nice. I hold no hope of us getting together.


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## moxy

It's good that this is a positive thing for you. It's also good that you're not hanging on to any expectations because you get to be free to pursue your own happiness without restriction whatever that may be, rather than being stuck in stasis.


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## SkyHigh

I...may have found somebody new.

But the guilt pangs of still being married are there. I can't find it in me to pull the trigger on this one.

We're both going through a rough time at the moment. Low point in both of our lives. 

Not sure what to do here...people tell me that I deserve to be happy, but my moral sense is screaming at me not to do this until the D is set in motion, but at the same time, I don't know when that will be....I feel chained.


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## moxy

Can you just initiate the divorce proceedings yourself or write your ex to let her know that now is the time to D? Filing would free you of that guilt.

Good for you that you're considering dating again! Do you feel ready to? Take it slow, because you want your emotions to stay steady and protect yourself, too.


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## SkyHigh

To be honest, I don't feel ready at all. 

And I don't want to initiate the divorce myself, it's something that I never wanted. She can do that if she really wants it.

Too many feelings bounced around.


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## moxy

Makes sense. However, if you're enjoying spending time with someone new, then let yourself do so.


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## SkyHigh

Admittedly, I have too much on my plate. I really don't know how I can progress forward. My re-evaluation has given me an ugly diagnosis....

....Bipolar 1.

Needless to say, I'm not happy.


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## Dewayne76

Bub, take it slow, ya know? YOu don't have to jump into bed just yet. Hang with her, talk to her. Go from there. YOU DO DESERVE to be happy! If she makes you feel happy, or comfortable, hang with her. 

Just be honest with her and let her know your feelings are all jacked up and if she's cool with it all, that's a great start man!

Good luck to you. Hope you find happiness soon.


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## SkyHigh

I understand that, but the other issue is also my estranged wife.

She seems a bit too curious about my treatment and whatnot. 

This was after telling me that she couldn't begin to think about us getting back together until after my treatment.

I haven't pressed the issue, if only because I don't want to know the answer why right now. 

I have another ex(my ex before my wife) who would like to meet up for coffee, it's been years since we've seen each other.


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## SkyHigh

Interestingly enough, my wife took my diagnosis in stride. I was misdiagnosed first time around. 

I'm now sort of scared to get into anything new. Even with everything that had happened, she's the only one I think I could actually trust, considering that she lived with me before and knows the signs. 

This sucks.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Admittedly, I have too much on my plate. I really don't know how I can progress forward. My re-evaluation has given me an ugly diagnosis....
> 
> ....Bipolar 1.
> 
> Needless to say, I'm not happy.


You do know I'm a pharmacist.

This is eminently manageable with medication.


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## SkyHigh

Manageable, but not curable. 

I'm currently on 4 medications.

Escitalopram, Lithium, Risperidone for mood stabilization.

Trazodone for sleep.


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## SkyHigh

One of our mutual friends is attempting to get us back together.

Six months until the D is able to be processed. Don't know what the future will bring. 

Things between us are pretty decent at the moment, the conversations are casual and light-hearted. She's going through a rough time at the moment with her education, so I've been a source of support.

She's been wholeheartedly supportive of my sobriety, and it's nearly half a year. 

One thing is for sure...I hate being back in the US. I also have a friend(whom I'm re-evaluating a friendship with) who is wholly negative and is really getting under my skin, even going so far as to say that one of our friends "won't last with his girlfriend because she's what he wants, not what he needs".....yet this guy has no valid relationship in sight. 

I'm not content here. This state is a vortex, everything's stupid expensive, and to top it off....this isn't home. Depending on how things go between wife and I, I may be headed back up next year. My parents are well aware.


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## SkyHigh

So much for that...... -_-


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## moxy

Hang in there. Limbo sucks. Just try to get your mind off of it all when it gets to be too much.


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## SkyHigh

There's no limbo...

"Too much has happened".


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## moxy

I'm sorry that this is such a roller coaster for you, Sky. 

I hope things have been going well for you otherwise, though I can understand that this probably overshadows the rest -- I know that's how it is for me, anyway.

It sounds like you have learned something that made you let go of hope again. That's a crummy feeling.

Wishing you a good rest of the week.


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## SkyHigh

I just have no hope of anything...

I crashed hard during outpatient yesterday and now they think I'm suicidal, so this really isn't how I want to spend my week getting constant calls for "support".


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## moxy

Oh, that is difficult. Maybe in the midst of all the calls, you can make sense of what caused you to crash? 

At least you have some support, though, and don't have to hide what you're going through. Maybe that can be helpful?

Is there anything you're looking forward to, this week?


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## SkyHigh

Checking in, TAM.

The D, provided she does go through with it, would be in 5 months. 

I've been job hunting like crazy out here and looking to move back to Ontario.

She's been failing in school and is overall miserable.

No OM yet. No OW for me. 

We've started texting each other recently. For her adamant "We're just friends" argument, she sure is doing a good job of keeping me as heavily involved in her life as I was when we were together. 

She posted a song about breakup feelings on her Facebook. Normally I would just overlook song postings, but this one had a lyric in it(she also posted the lyrics) that really stuck out.

_I've thrown away everything I've written you
Anything just to keep my mind from thinking
How I had you once
Oh, I can't forget that
Sometimes I wish I could lose you again_

Interesting.


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## moxy

Good to see you posting. Wishing you luck on the job hunt.

Sounds like your EW is also going through big emotions like you. Maybe the distance will help you each see things more clearly?


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## SkyHigh

Job hunt panned out! I have a job that I start on Monday after today's interview. Should be easy to save some money.

By my calculations, I'll be bringing in a little over 1000 a month, so I'll be stockpiling my cash until then. 

She has no idea that I plan to move back. The idea came up in a talk once where she said she'd support whatever I do, but that's about it. It'd be a hell of a surprise, that's for sure.


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## Conrad

SkyHigh said:


> Job hunt panned out! I have a job that I start on Monday after today's interview. Should be easy to save some money.
> 
> By my calculations, I'll be bringing in a little over 1000 a month, so I'll be stockpiling my cash until then.
> 
> She has no idea that I plan to move back. The idea came up in a talk once where she said she'd support whatever I do, but that's about it. It'd be a hell of a surprise, that's for sure.


You've been gone quite awhile.

Want to tell us what's up?


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