# My shocking realization.



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Let me start this by saying that I have never ever cheated on my wife even though there have been times during our marriage that her behavior has been iffy.

Late in my career (before I retired) I was transferred into a department staffed with two guys and three gals. I made it three guys. I knew both guys and we are friends. I knew one of the gals (and her husband). I had little previous interaction with the other two gals. I was about 20 years older than both. 

Now I love good coffee and the community pot in the office was crap. So I bought a Kurig machine and put it in my office. Word spread it was not long that I started having visitors in the morning, not only from our department, but from others. 

Joey (not real name) was one of the gals I did not know in the department. She started coming into my office every morning to grab a cup of coffee. But instead of leaving she would sit and talk for a while. I found out she was cheated on in her first marriage and the divorce left her mentally broken and financially ruined. She is now remarried and is step-mom to a teenage boy. Since she knew I had raised a boy she was asking me about her step-son's behavior and what she could do to help.

Now I have always been of the opinion that a work place romance does not "just happen". That there has to be some intention involved. Which is why I was shocked when I realized that I really enjoyed and looked forward to her daily visits to my office and was starting to have personal feelings beyond friendship. Not romantic, but I realized I was way too involved in her family life and problems. Now on special occasions, we all went to lunch together. Not a big deal until she began asking me to lunch...just the two of us. I went a couple of times because I was 20 years older than this girl and she knew I was married. Then she suggested that we meet for dinner after work to talk in a more private location about her step-son. It was then that I realized she was getting way to comfortable with me and just might be trying to manipulate me. To be honest, her attention made me very uncomfortable. 

I could not just tell her to stay out of my office or refuse to let her get a cup of coffee in the morning, but I did start cutting our morning talks short and never accepted another lunch invitation unless the entire department was going. By the time I retired, she had backed off of what I considered crossing the line. About three months after I retired I had to go to HR to sign some final paperwork and decided to drop by my former department just to say Hi and see how everyone was doing. I walked through the door and as soon as Joey saw me she jumped up and grabbed me into a way too intimate hug. Telling me how it was great to see me again and how much she missed me and our morning talks. I was able to talk to the guy I had know for a long time in private a little latter on and he asked me if anything was going on between me and Joey. I told him about my concerns before I retired and he told me that the office rumor mill had started a few months before I retired. He also told me that Joey had started talking about divorcing her husband because she was sure he was cheating. Transference maybe?

So my take away is confirmation that an office romance does not "just happen". It may start out innocent but at some point both participants have to make a conscious decision to take it further to completely inappropriate behavior. Even though nothing ever happened, I was totally shocked at how far and deeply I had gotten involved before I even realized and admitted to myself what was happening. 

I don't think Joey ever had any romantic interest in me. I really think she focused on me as an older financially stable man that she hoped she could seduce and support her through a divorce. If I had been the idiot some men are, it might have worked. After all, having beautiful woman 20 years younger giving you attention is a huge ego boost. But I eventually saw it as a huge Red Flag.

I am not really looking for any support or help by posting this. I just thought that by posting what had happened to me it might give some guidance to anyone who suspects that a spouse is getting too close to a work colleague. Especially for those who say "he/she would never do that". Understand that it could start out with no intention to cheat but over time it can go there and the cheater will even say they never intended it to happen and that is probably true. But that does not prevent the betrayed spouse from being hurt or make the betrayal better or easier to take.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> I could not just tell her to stay out of my office or refuse to let her get a cup of coffee in the morning, but I did start cutting our morning talks short and never accepted another lunch invitation unless the entire department was going.


Yes, you could. Your boss was not paying you to coach a step mom about her step son. all you had to say was, "glad you got some coffee. I need to meet a deadline, See ya'. Or would you certainly start worrying about having lied to her?



> After all, having beautiful woman 20 years younger giving you attention is a huge ego boost. But I eventually saw it as a huge Red Flag.


Had the woman been your age or older and /or unattractive, it would have been easier for you to get rid of her.

Thanks for reminding us that there are still men with neanderthal thoughts actions.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Appreciate your experience. I too had something similar happen. A female volunteer friend used to invite me to her home while her kids were at daycare and her husband at work. A couple of curious off the cuff remarks occurred. I love kids and used to embrace them warmly. She muttered, "I wish I could get some affection like that". I pretended to not hear it. 

She made a couple more inferences. Realized it wasn't appropriate to meet at her home to discuss our projects and started making excuses to not go. I also started including her husband in texts on matters that involved the community. Made a few more adjustments to thwart anything from happening. Most importantly, I informed my wife that I thought she was attracted to me. Bottom line, if I weren't aware of the pitfalls of such activity, I too could be mired in an affair. It can happen to anyone.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Realized it wasn't appropriate to meet at her home to discuss our projects and started making excuses to not go.


This is what local cafes are for. Like Starbucks, but maybe there is something more local as well.

We all need to be sensitive to grooming maneuvers, whether they are intentional or not. This is why having boundaries will make things easier.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> Yes, you could. Your boss was not paying you to coach a step mom about her step son. all you had to say was, "glad you got some coffee. I need to meet a deadline, See ya'. Or would you certainly start worrying about having lied to her?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


???


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

No one should be going out to lunch alone with the opposite sex co worker. You sent her a message.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

SunCMars said:


> ???


What are you not understanding?


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> No one should be going out to lunch alone with the opposite sex co worker. You sent her a message.


Mike Pence was roasted (and is still made fun of) for following this rule. It seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> Yes, you could. Your boss was not paying you to coach a step mom about her step son. all you had to say was, "glad you got some coffee. I need to meet a deadline, See ya'. Or would you certainly start worrying about having lied to her?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have to comment on the Neanderthal remark.

The Neanderthals were a very close knit and not a very gregarious sub-species of hominids (Mankind).
They eventually got out numbered by their smaller brethren.

They were sophisticated for their age period. They had the same size skull as do modern men. They endured the rugged periods well, but died young.
Most had large frames but short limbs. They likely were more powerful than than their new invading neighbors.

Why would I care?
Why would I write this?

About 15 years ago I had my DNA genetic linage checked out. 
I am ~3% Neanderthal.

I am high desire, HD.
Uh, you may have a point there!
Sorry, carry on!


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> Mike Pence was roasted (and is still made fun of) for following this rule. It seems like damned if you do, damned if you don't.


That’s 100% different. He was doing business deals and work deals over lunch. There is a big difference between having a work lunch, and going out to lunch to talk about your personal lives.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Good post. Keeping healthy boundaries in mind is a must.

Relationships can grow in a not healthy way if conscious efforts aren't made.

When I was still pretty young, I was really too stupid to realize that I had a lot of ladies who were crossing boundaries. I then went years working in a male dominated field as well as being self employed.

Maybe 6 years ago, I changed directions and ended up working with women all the time and that was an eye opener!

During that time, Mrs. Conan and I had the biggest trial we ever went through with me ending up suicidal and severely depressed for the better part of a year.

It was as close as I ever came to offing myself and divorcing my wife.

I had to go into a different line of work for a while where there were probably more women than men and that is where I met "D".

She made no bones about wanting me and, at the time, I really wanted her.

It was the closest I came to cheating but I chose to out myself to close friends for accountability and then Mrs. Conan as well before an affair could start.

Affairs are definitely waiting to happen and you have to actively be on guard.


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

My husband’s AP’s were women who reported to him.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

oh ok, @SunCMars.

This thread makes me want to ask the question Do men really feel as if they have no agency around a younger, attractive woman.? Or any other woman given the circumstances? The thread starter seems to believe so.

My first husband talked like this. I had problems with his friends being rude and dismissive around me. My ex would say, well, I can't be rude around them even he witnessed their rudeness towards me.

Now imagine a spouse who is very flirtatious with men or any other behavior that could be construed as grooming or its acceptance, would you believe that she has no free agency reject these overtures at least by subtle rejecting behavior ie, changing the subject; circulating at a party as a way to move on; stop returning phone calls; telling coworkers after they got their coffee in your coffee that they need to leave so that you can get some work done; etc......


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

I think most men have a default setting - 'she wants me'. 😂 



NextTimeAround said:


> This thread makes me want to ask the question Do men really feel as if they have no agency around a younger, attractive woman.? Or any other woman given the circumstances? The thread starter seems to believe so.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> oh ok, @SunCMars.
> 
> This thread makes me want to ask the question Do men really feel as if they have no agency around a younger, attractive woman.? Or any other woman given the circumstances? The thread starter seems to believe so.
> 
> ...


Of course men have agency.
But, it is evident that it is insufficient in so many instances.

A good percentage of men do not know how to say, No!....to a woman.
Or, they wish not to.

Many men have that testosterone stirring them, ever into action.
Alas, that shapely lass, leads to their downfall.

Um, hmm.


_Are Dee-_


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> oh ok, @SunCMars.
> 
> This thread makes me want to ask the question Do men really feel as if they have no agency around a younger, attractive woman.? Or any other woman given the circumstances? The thread starter seems to believe so.
> 
> ...


This is a good point. If the woman was older or ugly or both, I have no doubt he would have found a way right quick to get her out of his office. There would have been no continuing discussions about her life. Or, ofy it was a dude wanting to talk. OP would have found a way.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

SunCMars said:


> Of course men have agency.
> But, it is evident that it is insufficient in so many instances.
> 
> A good percentage of men do not know how to say, No!....to a woman.
> ...


Men know how to say no to a woman when they want to. Really. If that are that ruled by seeing a pretty woman, they should seek counseling.


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

I think there is a big difference between having feelings, and acting on said feelings. 

For example, earlier in my career (25-26 I think) I was having to travel all over the country, generally to little towns in the middle of no where, with a female coworker. She was married, had a husband who did not like me from our...2 interactions? (not that I can blame him) And she was assigned as my junior, so we worked together on dozens of projects. 
During some of our working seasons, she would spend more time with me than her husband. Hotel breakfast, 8-hour day plus lunch, dinner, and whatever time we spent driving. Plus waiting time in the airport, plane, etc., We got to know each other very well. And sometimes going out and getting drinks. (probably not the smartest)

Naturally, we became close to each other. I found her attractive, but I maintained my distance. Partly because I have a policy of NEVER hooking up with female coworkers. I usually try to maintain my distance entirely from female coworkers, but that was impossible when we travelled together for months on end. 

And when I put in my two-weeks, we had one last trip. And I think during our last night, she did make a comment of if she was single, she would totally sleep with me. 
I could've tried pushing my luck when she said that. We had conversations in the months before, I asked about the marriage, (I generally didn't ask because I didn't want to seem probing/creepy/not wanting to hint at something), and I forget how the conversation went, but I think I remember her saying her husband had cheated, but she forgave him. And I could pick up on the resentment. And I remember asking if she thinks he could satisfy her for life. She said she doubted it. 
And eventually, I asked if you don't think you can, and we both know he's cheated...well, who do you think will cheat first in your marriage. 
And suprisingly, she said she would! 

Now, back to my last trip with her, and our last meal together. We were drinking, and she had gotten me pretty tipsy because she owed me for some other tab I had bought. And she was also tipsy, or maybe drunk, because it was our last night together. We've shared a lot of memories, hardships, and I was attracted to her. And she tells me she would sleep with me if she wasn't married. 
I could've brought up the previous conversations we had. How she thought she would be the first step out. How her husband cheated first, so he deserves it. Or some other line. 
But I didn't. I told her "I don't sleep with coworkers and I don't sleep with married women." 

Did I want to sleep with her? YEAH! If she had been single, I would've ghost ticked the entire audit and spent the week in the room. 

But I had a policy. No coworkers. 
And no married women. 

I was attracted to her, and cared for her. 
I still had the ability to say no. 
At 25! or 26! 

So if a 25/26 year old male can say no, and keep it in his pants, any guy older than me can do it too. Because my hormones were raging too. 
But I didn't act them.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Livvie said:


> This is a good point. If the woman was older or ugly or both, I have no doubt he would have found a way right quick to get her out of his office. There would have been no continuing discussions about her life. Or, ofy it was a dude wanting to talk. OP would have found a way.


The truth is.....

When a man has that warm feeling about a woman of any age or configuration it is not something that is predictable or rational.

Sexual response is a very hard thing _to turn off_ in men.

There are no ugly woman, at least on the outside.

As woman age, whatever youthful beauty they think they lose, is made up by that inner beauty coming to the surface.

💛💚💙🧡

_The Typist-_


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> That’s 100% different. He was doing business deals and work deals over lunch. There is a big difference between having a work lunch, and going out to lunch to talk about your personal lives.


We may have to agree to disagree. Instead of considering them 100% different, I think it is more like splitting hairs.

There's nothing physically preventing you from having a personal conversation at a "business lunch" just like there is nothing preventing you from talking about work at a social lunch. There might be an actual reason to be there (to do a particular deal) but not for picking that particular setting (alone in a social setting). I feel like either the co-workers can be trusted alone together or they can't.


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

It's rough when seductive women force men to drink. 🙄



Broken at 20 said:


> We were drinking, *and she had gotten me pretty tipsy* because she owed me for some other tab I had bought. And she was also tipsy, or maybe drunk, because it was our last night together.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Accept that these feelings might, can, do exist. 
Act, *not* on them, inappropriately.

It would be a horrible existence to think that no one of the opposite sex found you attractive.
To believe that would be a horrible injustice to yourself, it is just a lie.

Fifty percent of marriages go bust.
Most from incompatibility in one form or another. 
Sexual incompatibility does often figure into this.

We are all compared to our peers, our friends and neighbors. 

Do men look at woman and have sexual thoughts?

Do bears poop in the woods? Yes.

Do they use Charmin, afterwards? No, dried leaves work just fine.


_The Typist-_


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> We may have to agree to disagree. Instead of considering them 100% different, I think it is more like splitting hairs.
> 
> There's nothing physically preventing you from having a personal conversation at a "business lunch" just like there is nothing preventing you from talking about work at a social lunch. There might be an actual reason to be there (to do a particular deal) but not for picking that particular setting (alone in a social setting). I feel like either the co-workers can be trusted alone together or they can't.


I disagree. It’s not about trust. I hate when people use this as an excuse. Don’t you trust me? Please. It’s about not putting yourself in a situation that jeopardize your family. Do you know how many people trusted their cheating partner! It’s asinine.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

minimalME said:


> It's rough when seductive women force men to drink.


But she kept feeding me drinks. Then she slipped and fell onto my penis. Oops.


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

minimalME said:


> It's rough when seductive women force men to drink. 🙄


Are you implying that she planned this? Or that I planned it, or facilitated it or something? Because I don't know about her, but I don't think that is how this happened at all. 
I think we planned on going out drinking to celebrate our last trip, we were in a major city at the time and not some crap little town, and she actually owed me like $60 for something I had covered for her on a previous trip. She definitely didn't force me. And I wanted to break my drinking record of 12 Martini's before the bartender cut me off. (Tragically, I didn't that night)
In hindsight, despite the type of person I am (I may not be a good person, but I DO NOT sleep with married women.), it was a bad idea for us to do that. She should've just given me some cash. But we went out to have fun. 

She didn't restrain me and pour the alcohol down my throat. It was just a fun evening between two work-friends where lines got blurry, but I didn't make a mistake, and neither did she. Had I handled things differently, would she have stayed strong and told me No? I honestly don't know. I would guess it's 50/50 either way. 

On a funny side note, the worse way to wake up with a hangover? 
In a hotel bed, with the hotel's laid-off unionized workforce outside the hotel picketing after being replaced with non-union workers, and making lots of noise. At 6:30 AM. And you're only on the 3rd floor.


----------



## Hiner112 (Nov 17, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I disagree. It’s not about trust. I hate when people use this as an excuse. Don’t you trust me? Please. It’s about not putting yourself in a situation that jeopardize your family. Do you know how many people trusted their cheating partner! It’s asinine.


Since no one can be trusted and nothing prevents you from personal interactions at a business lunch, no lone male and female coworker or business lunches should ever occur. For any reason. Ever.



Girl_power said:


> But she kept feeding me drinks. Then she slipped and fell onto my penis. Oops.


@Broken at 20 didn't seem to be implying that he was unwilling to drink or wouldn't have been drinking if she wasn't there or that he did end up sleeping with her.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Guessing this woman started innocently, and as you engaged in conversion she realized you made a good mark. 

It is absolutely never a good idea to go to lunch with an opposite sex coworker, one on one, unless there is a business case for it. Even just a rumor mill can damage your whole career, and marriage.

There have been a few occasions in my professional life when I met up with a female business associate "to catch up". I've always gone into these with the intention of discussing what we were up to in business, and sure, if vacations or family comes up, fine. But it's secondary to the reasons for the meeting.

And even THEN, I can name 3 separate meetings where it was bad, or close. One of them, the woman blatantly hit on me - wanted to have drinks after work, lavish compliments, the works. It was almost sad how obvious it was, and I got out of there and never spoke to her again. Second instance (different person), it was the first time we met - a networking lunch, 1-on-1 to discuss our firms. And I could feel an intense mutual attraction. I admittedly enjoyed it. But never arranged to meet her again. Too dangerous. And a 3rd instance was with a woman I know pretty well in business, still. Quick drink after work before heading to the train to discuss some mutual prospects. It got a little flirty, but stayed on the right side of the line. But it was close. I saw the potential danger there as well, and I think she did too, as she suddenly had to catch a train without previously mentioning it.

So, OP, I think, honestly, you brought this on yourself. You admit she was younger and attractive and it was an ego boost. Glad you recognized things and retired in time before it blossomed into something that could have ruined you.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

It's good to have boundaries. 

You can make decisions faster. ie - Let's meet at my place for this meeting. My husband's out of town. 
Rather: "How about the cafe a half mile from your place. My treat. (the drinks are also non acoholic there.)

See how easy that was! 

My husband's so called friend (that's what brought me here) accused him of leading her on. You certainly wouldn't want a coworker accusing you of the same thing.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Hiner112 said:


> Since no one can be trusted and nothing prevents you from personal interactions at a business lunch, no lone male and female coworker or business lunches should ever occur. For any reason. Ever.
> 
> 
> 
> @Broken at 20 didn't seem to be implying that he was unwilling to drink or wouldn't have been drinking if she wasn't there or that he did end up sleeping with her.


Dude I was making a joke about brokenat20. 


My problem was when he said “She had gotten me pretty tipsy.” He was shifting the blame and responsibility to her. He is a grown man that can control how much he drinks. That’s why I was making a joke.


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Dude I was making a joke about brokenat20.
> 
> 
> My problem was when he said “She had gotten me pretty tipsy.” He was shifting the blame and responsibility to her. He is a grown man that can control how much he drinks. That’s why I was making a joke.


I resent this. 
As the product of an affair that has left me disowned by my entire family, I swore to myself I would never do something like this, nor would I sleep (knowingly) with a married woman. 

And I encountered this situation a lot younger than I think most men who have/will encounter this did, with sky-high testosterone, and I knew an awful lot about the coworkers marriage, and easily could've played my hand to try something. 
Because of our travels, she had broken through all my rules for female coworkers. Being alone with them, spending time outside of work with them (always dinners, drinks, etc., when traveling) getting to know too much about their personal lives, letting them know too much about my personal life, becoming overly attached. I put these rules in place to protect myself from this exact situation. And failed to enforce them. 
And it was a perfect storm of a situation for a night to end like that. She owed me for a tab I covered, final trip so why not drink in the big city, we both knew each other very well, became clear we were both attracted to each other. 
But I didn't sleep with her. Nor did I make a push to try and sleep with her when I could have. 

I would suggest making jokes with a meme. That way people can't get too mad! 

Like this one:


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Broken at 20 said:


> I resent this.
> As the product of an affair that has left me disowned by my entire family, I swore to myself I would never do something like this, nor would I sleep (knowingly) with a married woman.
> 
> And I encountered this situation a lot younger than I think most men who have/will encounter this did, with sky-high testosterone, and I knew an awful lot about the coworkers marriage, and easily could've played my hand to try something.
> ...


Welcome to the adult world where boundaries don’t exist if you don’t enforce them. 

Oh she owed you drinks therefore you HAD to drink that much. I’m sorry but your way of thinking scares me, no accountability. 

You put your marriage at risk, period. Just because you didn’t actually sleep with anyone doesn’t mean you didn’t put it at risk. You don’t get an award for setting the mood, and then not doing anything, even with your manly testosterone running through your veins.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

It's super ridiculous to ask someone to meet at your house for a business meeting. Immediate red flag. 

That's akin to both of you staying in a hotel in separate rooms, and meeting in one of your rooms to discuss "business" when there is a lobby and/or business center downstairs.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> That’s 100% different. He was doing business deals and work deals over lunch. There is a big difference between having a work lunch, and going out to lunch to talk about your personal lives.


I highly respect him for his strong stance though. Affairs have begun over work lunches.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Where you went wrong I think was going to lunches alone with her when she asked. Although talking to her about personal issues before that didnt help. 
I have strong boundaries with the opposite sex, and going for a meal of even coffee alone with a man who I am not related to is a no no for me. Its not because I dont trust myself, or because my husband is a jealous man, he isnt at all, but its because things can happen slowly and insideously. As you have learnt, even if you dont plan or even want anything to happen, they can. I have several marriages in my own family that were destroyed because of work based affairs.


----------



## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Wow! I did not expect this reaction. But I do feel the need to explain a couple of things.

First...someone said I was sending her a message by agreeing to have lunch with her. We worked in the office of a large plant. Waaaayyyy out in the boon docks. No restaurants within a few miles. So if you did not bring something from home to nuke in the office microwave, you went out for lunch. It was not a matter of her asking me to go to lunch with her and me agreeing. When lunch time rolled around most people started discussing what they wanted that day. If someone mentioned a burger and fries, 2 or 3 other people might say that sounds good and off they all go together. In my case Joey mentioned sushi and I said that sounds good so we went together. I think she picked that because she knew I liked sushi and I was the only one out of the 6 people in our department who had ever mentioned liking it. I do remember one of the gals saying she had never tried sushi and did not intend to. One of the guys just called it "bait". If I did send a message, it was unintentional.

Second....someone said I definitely should have just told her to get her coffee elsewhere. I could have done that I suppose but that would have resulted in a huge conflict in the office and I could see it making it's way around the rumor mill and other people not even in our department taking sides. I chose not to do that. I did however come to the same conclusion another poster recommended and started cutting out "talks" short by having meetings in other departments of needing to check on something in the plant.

After that visit three months after I retired, I never went back.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Anyone who is not a close friend who is *****ing and moaning about a family member makes me very suspicious.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Where you went wrong I think was going to lunches alone with her when she asked. Although talking to her about personal issues before that didnt help.
> I have strong boundaries with the opposite sex, and going for a meal of even coffee alone with a man who I am not related to is a no no for me. Its not because I dont trust myself, or because my husband is a jealous man, he isnt at all, but its because things can happen slowly and insideously. As you have learnt, even if you dont plan or even want anything to happen, they can. I have several marriages in my own family that were destroyed because of work based affairs.


I agree with you 100%. I also wanted to ask the OP if he told his wife that he went out to lunch with her and it wasn’t a work lunch.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

God made men and women as entertainment.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Chains, that men and women wear are those noisy things.
Rather, just heavy jewelry that flatter no one, are burdensome, and wear down the strong.


_King Brian-_


----------



## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Yes, you could. Your boss was not paying you to coach a step mom about her step son. all you had to say was, "glad you got some coffee. I need to meet a deadline, See ya'. Or would you certainly start worrying about having lied to her?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that he could have simply stopped allowing her to meet with him for coffee. But I think the "neanderthal" remark inappropriate. He laid out a situation that he was simply unprepared for. Had he set up clear boundaries ahead of time, would the situation have been avoided? Sure. But I don't see it as a hugely-negative mark against somebody if they are having a conversation with someone of the opposite sex, things get a bit more involved than they should, and that person (the one being called a neanderthal) recognizes hey, whoa, this is not what it should be, and steps out.

That's a type of self-centering mechanism that speaks to his core values. That he is not a candidate for sainthood... is that really a huge deal? How high must we set the bar to be an OK person?


----------



## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

I feel like I just watched a Lifetime movie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

TDSC60 said:


> Let me start this by saying that I have never ever cheated on my wife even though there have been times during our marriage that her behavior has been iffy.
> 
> Late in my career (before I retired) I was transferred into a department staffed with two guys and three gals. I made it three guys. I knew both guys and we are friends. I knew one of the gals (and her husband). I had little previous interaction with the other two gals. I was about 20 years older than both.
> 
> ...


My only issue with your post is that you put yourself in the story as the unwitting victim who thankfully realized things were getting too close, but you paint her as manipulative, looking at you as a financially stable guy she could seduce to support her through her divorce. Why? Why is it not possible that she too enjoyed the feelings that talking to you brought and they took her by surprise, just like you? She might have pushed for more contact outside of work because she wanted more of you because you made her feel good, safe. You were both in an emotional affair but she was in deeper. Don’t minimize your part in it by disparaging her.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> No one should be going out to lunch alone with the opposite sex co worker. You sent her a message.


I have done so myself with nothing happening at all. It all depends on the intentions of the two at lunch.

How is it TDSC60’s fault Joey had other plans?

Are we not supposed to care for other people if they are the opposite sex?

I have gone to a coworker sister’s house to replace the ceiling fan in her living room. No big deal, told my wife what was up and did it. This was like 20 years ago. She would come by work every now and then to see her sister before and after this. Normally was just a hi or bye between us, never anything flirtatious.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

My AP that never happened has three things that made her ripe. Being here and other infidelity sites enabled me to pick up all of the standard reasonings that leads a woman to an affair.

I was/am happily married and safe. 
Although Ivy lead educated, she is a stay at home mom with three kids under 6
Husband works professionally and is absorbed in his work as he should be as the provider of a wife and three kids
Husband isn't affectionate according to her. Changed subject when she said this. 
I'm essentially her boss in that she's providing pro bono professional services for me (non-profit agency) and we're saving tens of thousands of dollars as she oversees and manages a construction project. As a result, I'm highly appreciative, complimentary and thank her all the time. I believes this validates her and she's said as much.
I stuck my neck out trusting she could deliver and influenced others to pave the way for her to do the work she's doing and I think being in her corner means a lot to her. 

I nipped it in the bud at it's high point a couple years ago, when my volunteer friend stated acting nervous around me when we were alone. I'm not talking nervous from fear, but nervous from the possibilities of being alone without anyone catching anything. That vibe that happens before a first kiss is what I saw and felt. It was at that point I told my wife what MIGHT be happening. It helped my wife also since my volunteer friend is extremely attractive and 10 years younger and it was important to my wife that she felt safe and secure in her husband. 

Again though. All this stuff happens easily with two people working and one has to be vigilant and highly aware. You can't say it'll never happen to me. You actually have to see it while it's happening, recognize it for what it COULD be and nip it in the bud cold.


----------



## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

colingrant said:


> My AP that never happened has three things that made her ripe. Being here and other infidelity sites enabled me to pick up all of the standard reasonings that leads a woman to an affair.
> 
> I was/am happily married and safe.
> Although Ivy lead educated, she is a stay at home mom with three kids under 6
> ...


You saved yourself and your wife. That is commendable. This woman is or was a time bomb. Did you say anything to her or her husband?


----------



## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

It is not called a slippery slope for nothing.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I think coworkers, male and female, can have lunch alone. It's out in public anyway. It's important to know the signs that they're grooming you and to switch to a more distant demeanour when it happens. Most people who are not looking for resistance will cool off in turn.


----------



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

TDSC60 said:


> I don't think Joey ever had any romantic interest in me. I really think she focused on me as an older financially stable man that she hoped she could seduce and support her through a divorce. If I had been the idiot some men are, it might have worked. After all, having beautiful woman 20 years younger giving you attention is a huge ego boost. But I eventually saw it as a huge Red Flag.
> 
> I am not really looking for any support or help by posting this. I just thought that by posting what had happened to me it might give some guidance to anyone who suspects that a spouse is getting too close to a work colleague. Especially for those who say "he/she would never do that".* Understand that it could start out with no intention to cheat but over time it can go there and the cheater will even say they never intended it to happen and that is probably true.* But that does not prevent the betrayed spouse from being hurt or make the betrayal better or easier to take.


Cheaters always say they never intended it to happen, in your case you stopped it from happening so you did the right thing, in other cases 'never intended it to happen' is just another pathetic excuse.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ABHale said:


> I have done so myself with nothing happening at all. It all depends on the intentions of the two at lunch.
> 
> How is it TDSC60’s fault Joey had other plans?
> 
> ...


It’s not anyone’s fault. It’s about establishing healthy boundaries to protect your marriage.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Two adults can choose to have an affair if they want to. Many of them do, like a lot of people. That’s the problem.


----------



## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I find it ironic that she was cheated on by hb #1, was thinking of divorcing #2 for suspected cheating, yet was sniffing around a married man. 

Typical trash....birds of a feather.

On another note, I have a male friend at work that I have lunch with off and on. I've known him for many years and he used to be my boss....he jump started my career. Nothing inappropriate has ever gone on....we talk work and politics and he says I'm the smartest person he knows. He's an odd bird anyway....a little older and has mostly women friends. He's short and not very attractive and when the various husbands meet him they have no worries. He also gives me great stock advice .

I don't think he's gay but people have asked. He's a bit effeminate and just doesn't seem to play well with other men.

My bf has met him and had not voiced one iota of concern.

These kinds of male/female friendships can happen but they're probably not the norm.


----------



## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

This thread is great because it allows us to discuss what ifs, past mistakes and whatnot.

What I have found most successful is not allowing these situations to even begin. In the OP's case, I would have probably put the Keurig in a common area (if that is logistically possible) once I saw people using it, or if it started interrupting me at my desk. As for 1-on-1s in his lunch situation with this woman, I would have gotten the sushi to go. 

There are countless other times I have just not allowed myself to go there. I was married very young and had almost no "professional" time as a single person. So I had a lot of practice being "good" and avoiding these situations and that just has stuck with me for 20+ years now. 

I remember a time when I was engaged and working at a large insurance company full of really young people my age. It was very social and had I not been engaged I probably would have hooked up with at least a couple of women - others were doing it and not even hiding it. And I remember at a happy hour where all of us were at a table drinking, one of the young (attractive) women kept leaning up on me deliberately. Like she would laugh and lean into me, etc. any excuse to do it over and over. So once my dumb ass realized what was going on, I got up and went to the bathroom, came back and sat somewhere else. 

It's not that hard. The thing is, you have to really WANT to NOT mess around. If you are enjoying it a little too much then you are ripe for lowering your boundaries.


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ABHale said:


> I have done so myself with nothing happening at all. It all depends on the intentions of the two at lunch.
> 
> How is it TDSC60’s fault Joey had other plans?
> 
> ...


I put caring about my husband and my marriage first.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

Harken Banks said:


> You saved yourself and your wife. That is commendable. This woman is or was a time bomb. Did you say anything to her or her husband?


No. I didn't because there was nothing to really tell and my explanation could easily be countered as entirely inaccurate. But I'm pretty confident in my read as I (and my wife agrees) am and have always been naïve about reading these types of things. When I think a woman is being friendly, my wife sees her as interested. So, when I OF ALL PEOPLE believes a female is sending overtures of interest then I'm pretty much going with my gut because rarely do I see or feel this accurately according to my wife, whom I've learned to trust in this area. 

Personally, I think I awakened my volunteer friend in a sense. I think the window of opportunity for something to happen was closed when I ignored things. I think she got her emotions together when they were on the cusp of being taken for a ride. What helped was me sending periodic texts to both her and her husband as I wanted him to also feel safe also given the fact that was working and in frequent communication with with his wife. In other words, opened up things to her husband and my wife. Affairs are supported by secrecy. Opening it up to others reduces the conditions enabling it to be sustained. 

I keep thinking about my advanced knowledge though and how important it is to be on high alert. When you read a person say, "It just happened", "It got out of control" or "I didn't intend for it to happen", all are results of ignoring every or all signals. So, when my friend talked about her husband I changed the subject immediately. Herein is where it starts., where the husband or wife allows the soon to be cheater to rant, which morphs into all out blaming. First it's a small rant to see if the listener is agreeable. The EA starts as it increases to more rants and the soon to be AP begins to become compassionate, empathetic and in some instances the victim. 

Then the soon to be cheater begins to set up the soon to be AP with more blaming, which escalates embellishment and making stuff up for purposes of getting more empathy and connecting with the soon to be AP. Soon to be cheater starts to fester up resentment for there spouse and has enabled the now AP to take up room in her/his heart. Sex happens shortly thereafter and it's off to the races of doom and despair.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

A lot can be said about simple ignorance as well. Forewarned is for armed and I know, after a lot of painful research, that this kind of thing sneaks up on people who otherwise would never have been caught up in an affair.

I had a lot of one sided,(on their part) affair attempts because I didn't even recognize what was happening until something embarrassing happened to get through my thick skull.

One time Mrs. Conan had to clue me into the fact that a saucy little red headed irish gal was seriously trying to get something going with me.

I was going through EMT training at the time and the oldest person in the course.

I was around 39-40 at the time and this gal was maybe 20 and didn't even ping my radar.

EMT's and other first responders deal with very hands on situations that don't allow for being body conscious or shy about handling people's bodies and being handled yourself. The situations are also very tense when you're dealing with life and death and horrific trauma.

People involved tend to develop a gallows sense of humor and affairs are rampant along with physical and emotional connections being made quickly.

I cruised through it without batting an eye, (probably a combination of greater life experiences and being use to seeing trauma from my youth) but the younger people were hooking up like crazy and I saw an amazing amount of sexual tension with the more experienced people we worked with.

One fine day, there was a group outing with significant others invited. Mrs. Conan and I show up and my wife zeroed the little red head out n less than 5 minutes. She told me to be aware that the girl had her sights on me. I couldn't see it but it came out later that day that my wife was dead on.

I had to avoid her from then on out.

If I had been of a little different bent, I could have found myself in a stupid situation do to simple naivete.

It doesn't take long in some circumstances to develop strong bonds with coworkers.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Hey honey, how was work? What did you have to lunch? Oh I had sushi. Oh that’s nice, who did you go with? This girl Joey at the office. Oh really? Just you two? Yes it was no big deal.

The next day, same thing.

It becomes a red flag. 


Also, if you choose not to tell your wife the truth, chances are your not telling her because you know that what your doing is wrong.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

minimalME said:


> I think most men have a default setting - 'she wants me'. 😂


Actually the exact opposite is often the case.

There have been at least two instances where women have been making overtures to me and I was utterly clueless.

It was my wife who clued me in.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

NextTimeAround said:


> oh ok, @SunCMars.
> 
> This thread makes me want to ask the question Do men really feel as if they have no agency around a younger, attractive woman.? Or any other woman given the circumstances? The thread starter seems to believe so.
> 
> ...


Men enjoy kibbles also, so it goes both ways. Meaning he has agency, the question is does he want to apply it or give excuse on not to apply it. In fact, he should lead the way in you being shielded from disrespect directed towards you by other women. You have a much better chance at earning the respect from other women when he prioritizes you when in their company.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Diana7 said:


> I put caring about my husband and my marriage first.


So when we get married we are no longer allowed to care about friends or coworkers?

I have always put my wife first, that doesn’t mean I tell my friends and others to bad with their problems. Are we not supposed to help others in need.

You can still help other and not cheat, millions do it every day.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ABHale said:


> So when we get married we are no longer allowed to care about friends or coworkers?
> 
> I have always put my wife first, that doesn’t mean I tell my friends and others to bad with their problems. Are we not supposed to help others in need.
> 
> You can still help other and not cheat, millions do it every day.


Yea because that girl In the office is in dire need of help. Come on... 

People need to recognize the difference.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Girl_power said:


> Yea because that girl In the office is in dire need of help. Come on...
> 
> People need to recognize the difference.


The Discussion Starter should have reminded her of the mental health benefits that the company offers, IF he really wanted to help her.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> Yea because that girl In the office is in dire need of help. Come on...
> 
> People need to recognize the difference.


The girl in the office has her own problems. OP didn’t cheat, all he did was to try and help her with her stepson. The girl had other motive, not OP.


----------



## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

I've only read the first half of this thread and, whoa! 

There is some serious projection coming from some people in here, for something which could be classified as helpful advice for those in a similar circumstances in future.

Quick to jump on the band wagon that paints aspects of male nature in a negative light, but without balancing that argument with the behaviours of the women that also contribute to said circumstances.

Illuminating...


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Quick to jump on the band wagon that paints aspects of male nature in a negative light, but without balancing that argument with the behaviours of the women that also contribute to said circumstances.


The point here is not to offload responsibility. I cannot believe that if coffee moocher had been fat, ugly and wrinkly, Discussion Starter would have politely ushered her out of his office instead of claiming that he is powerless to reclaim his space. Probably also cut down her weekly coffee rations. This one of those "she just fell on my ****" excuses.

If you men want to be treated like adults, then act like it.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

ABHale said:


> The girl in the office has her own problems. OP didn’t cheat, all he did was to try and help her with her stepson. The girl had other motive, not OP.


I understand. But you can’t be naive. So many people use a problem to get closer to someone else. She really didn’t have a problem, just complaints anyway.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Livvie said:


> This is a good point. If the woman was older or ugly or both, I have no doubt he would have found a way right quick to get her out of his office. There would have been no continuing discussions about her life. Or, ofy it was a dude wanting to talk. OP would have found a way.


I'm not sure that I'd agree with the older -- there are many SMOKING hot looking older women.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

Luminous said:


> I've only read the first half of this thread and, whoa!
> 
> There is some serious projection coming from some people in here, for something which could be classified as helpful advice for those in a similar circumstances in future.
> 
> ...


I don’t think it has anything to do with gender. Women come on to married men all the time,en come on to married women all the time. All genders are manipulative and try to Inch their way Into someone they are interested ins life. 

The point is to have healthy boundaries, but what seems as innocent a lot of times isn’t. It’s just another play on the chess board until they try to get the king. 

Things are never 0-100. There are tons of small little moves that happen before the big affair/sex.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

jlg07 said:


> I'm not sure that I'd agree with the older -- there are many SMOKING hot looking older women.


The point is, if the OP didn’t find the women attractive things might have been different. There is no threat then. It doesn’t matter the age.


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

minimalME said:


> I think most men have a default setting - 'she wants me'. 😂


I think maybe it's more of a "I HOPE she wants me" and any action that a woman makes that could remotely be interpreted that way does get interpreted that way....


----------



## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

Elizabeth001 said:


> I feel like I just watched a Lifetime movie.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Wouldn't it be nice if they MADE movies where, even if attracted, they realize it and go home to their spouses vowing to make their boundaries and marriage stronger? 
Most of these, they make googly eyes, fall in love, and screw over the poor schlubs they have waiting at home for them.... because, ya know, it's SO ROMANTIC....


----------



## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Maybe.

Even though I'm totally clueless about how to flirt, I can easily recognize it in others, and it's really uncomfortable to see a man looking at me with an expression of, 'I'm so gonna **** you.'



jlg07 said:


> I think maybe it's more of a "I HOPE she wants me" and any action that a woman makes that could remotely be interpreted that way does get interpreted that way....


----------



## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> Welcome to the adult world where boundaries don’t exist if you don’t enforce them.
> 
> Oh she owed you drinks therefore you HAD to drink that much. I’m sorry but your way of thinking scares me, no accountability.
> 
> You put your marriage at risk, period. Just because you didn’t actually sleep with anyone doesn’t mean you didn’t put it at risk. You don’t get an award for setting the mood, and then not doing anything, even with your manly testosterone running through your veins.


Again, last night with that firm, I hated my job, I was celebrating. She didn't foot the bill entirely.

Additionally, I am confused by your last paragraph, as I was not married, or even in a relationship. She was.

But again, I challenge anyone to maintain the boundaries for such a prolonged period of time.
In total, I probably spent 4 months on the road with my female coworker, seeing her over 40+ hours a week, at every meal. Long plane rides (she liked sitting next to me because she was petite, and knew if I was on one side of her, she wouldn't be crushed by 2 fat people on either side), long car drives, long uber rides, harrowing experiences like that time I nearly crashed a rental car driving in a blizzard. Teaching her idioms because English wasn't her first language. Our shared difficulties on some tougher clients, that time I let her take the lead on an engagement when I got food poisoning. I gave her advice/help on passing her CPA exams. Long conversations about all sorts of things during our long trips. 
I should've kept better boundaries, but I didn't. Neither did she. But I'd be surprised if anyone maintained what MOST people consider healthy boundaries after that amount of time together. 

And all of that leads me to wonder...how many people had healthy boundaries, only for something like the above to happen. I wonder if that's how most work place affairs occur....very prolonged, and pent up. Or are people just stupid and just jumping into bed with coworkers? 


Lastly, ever since this happened, I have enforced a much stricter policy on my personal relationships, not only with female, but male coworkers. I have a general goal for people to know nothing about me. And I've enforced it successfully for over a year. This week was the first time I shared something personal about myself to a coworker, and they freaked out! Because I've never opened up. But it's been much easier since my coworkers keep changing.


----------



## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

Girl_power said:


> She really didn’t have a problem, just complaints anyway.


That is such a smart statement.


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Maybe women do this as well, but I experienced this with both my husbands. That is, when you notice that your partner favoring someone else a little too much (or a lot), they try to say things to play down their affection for that person. "Oh, she's not very nice." "She really gets on my nerve." or in the case of my current husband, he told me his so called friend said her new boyfrend is better in bed and has a bigger ****...... and so on.

My opinion is that the worse that you let someone treat, the more you apparently like them. No one in their right mind would put up that behavior unless you thought that person was really wonderful. 

I noticed with my first husband when I pointed out behaviors of his friend's wife that he had earlier didn't like, he would say, "I didn't hear /see her do that." 

What gives here?


----------



## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

NextTimeAround said:


> The point here is not to offload responsibility. I cannot believe that if coffee moocher had been fat, ugly and wrinkly, Discussion Starter would have politely ushered her out of his office instead of claiming that he is powerless to reclaim his space. Probably also cut down her weekly coffee rations. This one of those "she just fell on my ****" excuses.
> 
> If you men want to be treated like adults, then act like it.


I don’t think this is true at all. Most affairs aren’t based on looks they are based on feelings and feelings are irrational. A man can innocently chat with a woman they don’t find attractive in any way about her problems and over time that KISA complex takes over. He likes feeling like the hero which makes HER attractive. Just like a woman can talk to a man about her problems and suddenly find an old, fat man dreamy because he seems the hero. It doesn’t need to be talking about personal problems, it can be issues at work - which makes it all that much harder to tell when you are the frog in a pot of water heading to a boil. Which was the OP’s point. 

Of course it is the duty of the married person to realize they are suddenly attracted to someone else and put on the hard brakes, which OP did. But you do a disservice to betrayed spouses to perpetuate the myth that it is only the young attractive people they need to worry about. Cheating is about feelings and what is lacking in the cheater. If the person supplying those feelings looks like Roseanne Barr she will look like Angelina Jolie to the cheater.


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

NextTimeAround said:


> The point here is not to offload responsibility. I cannot believe that if coffee moocher had been fat, ugly and wrinkly, Discussion Starter would have politely ushered her out of his office instead of claiming that he is powerless to reclaim his space. Probably also cut down her weekly coffee rations. This one of those "she just fell on my ****" excuses.
> 
> If you men want to be treated like adults, then act like it.


I think you are absolutely missing the spirit and intent of this thread. LoL!


----------



## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

> Most affairs aren’t based on looks they are based on feelings and feelings are irrational.


I agree with that. One only needs to look at Prince Charles as an example. I have always believed that the less generally attractive a woman is, the greater / deeper the attraction she is to her partner. That's why I find it interesting when someone wants to say that next one is even more attractive. or the BW who is upset that her husband's affair partner is younger and prettier. What a loser! I would think that with those 2 advantages, she should be able to do better than someone who is married and will probably bring baggage into the next relationship.


----------



## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

NextTimeAround said:


> I agree with that. One only needs to look at Prince Charles as an example. I have always believed that the less generally attractive a woman is, the greater / deeper the attraction she is to her partner. That's why I find it interesting when someone wants to say that next one is even more attractive. or the BW who is upset that her husband's affair partner is younger and prettier. What a loser! I would think that with those 2 advantages, she should be able to do better than someone who is married and will probably bring baggage into the next relationship.


And therein lies the dilemma.

You are trying to equate logic/conscious thinking, against biology/evolution/instinct/unconscious mind...

People's choices don't always line up with expectations, or what they 'should' do.

That goes for both sexes.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

TDSC60 said:


> Let me start this by saying that I have never ever cheated on my wife even though there have been times during our marriage that her behavior has been iffy.
> 
> Late in my career (before I retired) I was transferred into a department staffed with two guys and three gals. I made it three guys. I knew both guys and we are friends. I knew one of the gals (and her husband). I had little previous interaction with the other two gals. I was about 20 years older than both.
> 
> ...


that’s an interesting story. I agree with you that a lot of times that is exactly how it gets started. Probably why some people canfeel like they just “fell in love” and it “wasn’t their fault”. I personally believe that people could use some education at how these things work and it might possible help a little bit. Doubtful, because emotions are what they are, but it might. A more optimistic person might think it would be helpful, lol.
I have learned a huge amount about myself and “love” and relationships and people in the last 6 years. I didn’t realize how much I really didn’t have a clue about at 35 yrs old, until now.
In truth, I wish I could go back to not knowing what I do now. I enjoyed your story. I think you were wrong about her romantic feelings for you, however. And I think you are pretty self aware to not fall in that trap.
Bravo.


----------



## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> I understand. But you can’t be naive. So many people use a problem to get closer to someone else. She really didn’t have a problem, just complaints anyway.


I think we are looking at this from two different directions.


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

NextTimeAround said:


> The point here is not to offload responsibility. I cannot believe that if coffee moocher had been fat, ugly and wrinkly, Discussion Starter would have politely ushered her out of his office instead of claiming that he is powerless to reclaim his space. Probably also cut down her weekly coffee rations. This one of those "she just fell on my ****" excuses.
> 
> If you men want to be treated like adults, then act like it.


pretty harsh. The guy didn’t cheat, he’s writing this in order to show what he learned. He understands where he went wrong and is saying so. Why the scorcher?


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Evinrude58 said:


> pretty harsh. The guy didn’t cheat, he’s writing this in order to show what he learned. He understands where he went wrong and is saying so. Why the scorcher?


You weren't replying to me, but I'll say, probably because it's annoying that if this co-worker WASN'T attractive, OP most likely _would have_ found it in himself to cut the coffee visits short and it never would have gotten as far as it did.


----------



## colingrant (Nov 6, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> Actually the exact opposite is often the case.
> 
> There have been at least two instances where women have been making overtures to me and I was utterly clueless.
> 
> It was my wife who clued me in.


Direct opposite with me also. I've heard men say "she wants me" and I'm thinking, what are you talking about? Because she just talks with you she wants you? To be honest, I think a lot of guys are just full of it. I learned to listen to my wife a little, but I still don't see what she and others sometimes see. I think my problem is I'm friendly and talkative, so when a woman is friendly and talkative I don't see her being any different than I am, so I tell myself she's just being like I am in reverse. Funny thing is though, my volunteer friend is the same way, which is what got her somewhat attracted to me in the first place. I talk with her as though she's a a male friend and not a beautiful woman.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Lets see, ultra thin wallet, forever butter face ....Nope she doesn’t want me. Lol  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Lets see, ultra thin wallet, forever butter face ....Nope she doesn’t want me. Lol
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dang Barb!😆


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

colingrant said:


> Direct opposite with me also. I've heard men say "she wants me" and I'm thinking, what are you talking about? Because she just talks with you she wants you? To be honest, I think a lot of guys are just full of it. I learned to listen to my wife a little, but I still don't see what she and others sometimes see. I think my problem is I'm friendly and talkative, so when a woman is friendly and talkative I don't see her being any different than I am, so I tell myself she's just being like I am in reverse. Funny thing is though, my volunteer friend is the same way, which is what got her somewhat attracted to me in the first place. I talk with her as though she's a a male friend and not a beautiful woman.


I dunno. I tried being just friends with some women and it was only a matter of time that we slept together anyway.

Just about 100%.

That was pre M of course.

But even after, if talking with a female near in age if she was socially available it had to be nipped in the bud, almost no matter how innocent.


----------



## Luminous (Jan 14, 2018)

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> I dunno. I tried being just friends with some women and it was only a matter of time that we slept together anyway.
> 
> Just about 100%.
> 
> ...


You silver tongued devil you


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> You weren't replying to me, but I'll say, probably because it's annoying that *if* this co-worker WASN'T attractive, OP most likely _would have_ found it in himself to cut the coffee visits short and it never would have gotten as far as it did.


Annoyed at what the woman may have looked like and what he most likely would have done if she did look homely? Lol


----------



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sorry OP, your post sounds innocent but your behavior was anything but. You knew exactly what was happening and enjoyed the ego kibbles the attention of a younger attractive woman gave you. To write as if she somehow led you on (it could have been a matter of her being an innocent naïve girl let on by an older 'should have more sense' man). The fact you suggest you had no agency whatsoever in the matter is ******** in my view, if she had the agency you so willingly ascribed to her, you most definitely did also.
People have a way of cutting off or shutting down unwanted attention, you simply did not want to and chose not to.


----------

