# Am I being too suspicious?



## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

My husband and I have been married for nearly 23 yrs. We have 3 kids. He was the ws. He cheated on me several times throughout our marriage. Physical, "emotional" (for lack of better word--he was always very transactional about his pursuits, never really emotionally interested in any of the women), micro-cheating, cyberaffairs, etc. Throughout the years "we" would work on it. Working on it, as I have learned, meant he would apologize, in his own way and with words. But it didn't feel completely genuine. He would be defensive and indignant that he had to stop all contact. His affairs would usually be disclosed due to my discovering or him having to tell me. We would go to therapy, but usually it was for him to get his life in order, and not really focusing on recovery or the real deep reasons he was a cheater (his mom was a serial cheater, narcisstist, and a neglectful parent). I couldn't really talk of the affairs. He said it brought him great pain and it was something he felt I couldn't let go. Like I lived in the past and was picking at old wounds. Essentially, he reached like he was the victim of my suspicious tyranny. 

In 2004, he was searching for an AP. We just had our second child, but it seemed like at the time he was in an interviewing process, accessing different candidates to cheat with. He eventually found one on the website, Friendster. It was with a woman who lived in the same city we did at the time. They had no prior knowledge or relationship with each other. It was a mutual hookup situation for a physical sexual affair. She was just divorcing her husband for cheating on her, and my husband looking for a side thing. She started to want more, husband did not. Eventually, he confessed to me after a couple/few months. I would get the trickle truths and a variety of details but it seems there are always details kept from me. My guess is that he did this to sort of not let me know his technique. Anyway, after some big fights, and huffing and puffing on his part (why should he cut things off if stops the behavior??), I contacted the OW to tell her to stop contact. Reaching out to her sort of freaked my husband out. Guess he thought I was pissed and mental enough for him to finally take me seriously. 

I would like to think he learned his lesson, but he did cheat again in 2010, with a similar sort of situation (physically sexual affair). And he's had some questionable interactions with women since, but with no sex that I know of. I do know he's been upset in past that I don't allow/agree for us to have an open relationship. 

Anyway, recently I felt funny about stuff. He's been alternately grumpier and picking arguments, or very aggressively affectionate. It just seems weird. He was very defensive about my questions, that became suspicions, and for bringing up the past, which he feels is unfair. My distrust and questions make him feel like I view him as "broken" and that doesn't feel good to him. He says that I need to trust him and allow us to move forward, though he sees in theory why this is difficult for me. But sometimes things just seem odd and off and I can't ignore that. So I took a look at his Facebook and see that the woman from 2004 is on his messenger contact list. They are not friends on Facebook. But she is in his contacts. He has blocked her but it shows she's a contact. This is fairly more recent. I checked his Facebook messenger several months ago, after some other fishy (but "benign" behavior) and she wasn't there as a contact. He blocked her January 20th this year (he said he blocked a long while back--he doesn't know I know when he blocked her). He said that he hasn't had contact with her at all and that he only blocked her in case she ever were to contact him. Like do people do that after 15 years??!! Especially when they don't have any real connection?? He claims that he looked her up to block her. Just in case. He said he did this because I was talking about her and it prompted him to block her. He said that explains why she's in his contacts. Well I don't buy this. So I did some research, and experimenting with my own messenger. That's not how it works. To be in the contact list, you and the other person need to have correspondence back and forth. Not just one way. Then again I hate to look like I'm paranoid and picking at something. And then again, I'm historically an idiot (obviously) so what the heck do I know. He's also blocked two other women. One he had coffee with years ago that lead to an awkward kissing session in 2017. I just found out recently she contacted about year after that. He felt I didn't need to know because he didn't want the scrutiny. He also blocked another woman in contact list that he played online games with and that wanted to meet up for coffee. He said he blocked her some time ago (but I see it was less than a month ago) because he didn't want things to get weird if I found her messages to be too forward, as he felt it was going that way for her. Again, he never discloses stuff. I have to play detective, which he finds erodes trust. 

I am very curious of the details. I don't want any secrets, lies, or deceit. The thing is, since his last physical affair in 2010, he's had times of questionable conversations and interactions with women. He's met up with women for bike rides, but won't tell me, and with others for coffee (one that lead to some kissing), or just explicit conversations. And yet I'm the one that gets blamed because I won't let it go. He has never followed our agreement for full disclosure and honesty. I get trickle truths months or years later. Now this self-proclaimed Facebook hater is constantly on Facebook. Going on the moment he leaves the house (like in the car) or the moment I leave the house, and during other times I know he's busy. He's on for some time. And also in middle of night. But I am not supposed to ever bring it up! He will always say that he has real things to worry about (bills etc) and that he has no time to cheat and that he's proven he won't, and that futhermore we have real things to concentrate on, not this. He's also said I'm gaslighting him when I said that I don't like when he tries to gaslight me. I want to confront him. I'm not financially able to leave and he knows this. 

Am I being paranoid? I don't think so. Something feels amiss.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

placeholder said:


> Am I being paranoid? I don't think so. Something feels amiss.


Obviously I'm not there, but I don't think you're being paranoid at all. I think you're actually in denial and his behavior has become so obvious that you're having trouble staying in denial. I think your husband has cheated on you continuously all this time, as in, he's never stopped.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Rather than questioning whether or not you are paranoid (and I'd say unequivocally NO), why aren't you doing whatever it takes to get financially untethered from this loser??? You've been married longer than 10 years, which generally means you get spousal support for half the duration of your marriage (example: married 18 years, get 9 years of spousal support). 

Get a free initial consultation with a family law attorney. Learn your rights. Get whatever training or education you need to be gainfully employed. And drop this moron like radioactive waste. Seriously.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

I apologize for overlooking that you have been married for 23 years. That is considered a marriage of longevity by the courts. Most unemployed or underemployed spouses receive lifetime support. 

Okay. You caught him cheating the first time, that makes you a victim. The other times? That makes you a volunteer.

Quit trying to convince yourself you're paranoid. Start convincing yourself that you deserve far better than a cheating, lying spouse.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

No, you aren’t. 

He’s fine with life the way it is. If you aren’t, you’ll have to take the steps to fix it. He won’t.


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## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

I appreciate the responses. A lot of good points. Myself, I don't think I'm being paranoid or too suspicious. I don't fully know if this is something that has lead to anything (yet). I was taking care of my now deceased father for the about 5 years, until he passed last year. It wasn't the time to make any big changes in my life or my kids. A year has just past and I am now refocusing on my future, and my kids' future as well. My husband was not fully neglected when I was my father's caregiver. Sure, maybe not as much focus as my husband wanted, but his life has always been pretty much his way, at least when it comes to our family. It's just not cool. We've all had a pretty awful few years watching my once vibrant father get sicker and sicker and die. I can't believe I have to deal with this again when it should be our time to all heal and grow. 

My guess is my husband thinks there is no real harm if he still pays attention to me/family and does what needs to be done here. He probably thinks as long as he doesn't partake in anything physical, it doesn't matter and I'm just being difficult again. He blames my anxiety for my questioning of his fidelity, like a form of OCD. He blames my anxiety for everything. And he also seems to think my anxiety is as big a deal in our relationship as his infidelities. He can't see how my anxiety is worse because of his behavior and what it's put our family through. Somehow me being disrespected and being made a fool again is my perspective or something, that I need to loosen up or some nonsense. I really don't know what his logic is. It's all stupid. I have a lot to consider. I am going to confront him about the contact list. It's too weird and I need an answer. 

Thanks for the feedback


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You are well and truly gaslighted. He has you convinced that his 'points' about his behavior actually have merit. He has you very successfully shut up. It's all what he wants and you have bought into it.

So, what does he want? He wants to have his cake and eat it, too. He wants you and the family as his reliable background noise and he wants you to just shut up about his constant pursuit of sidepieces.

What you know is most assuredly only the tip of the iceberg. Are you paranoid? Of course you aren't. He's a serial cheater and cake eater. You are in just one compartment in his life. The other compartments are secret and hidden from you. He has an entire second life.

When you stop drinking his Kool-Aid is when you start to recover your self worth and see how he has manipulated you for years.


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Sounds to me like you have been living in and accepting an OPEN marriage for at least 23 years. IMO, he is a liar, serial cheater, and an emotionally abusive bully. He grew up with this in his FOO (family of origin) and thinks it is ok and you are 'easy' to fool. Why would you ever accept anything he says as truth?

Be checked for STI's. Talk to a lawyer--first consult is often no charge.

Any one would have anxiety in your position (he is the cause). There is no trust. IMO, you do not have a marriage as he negated that from the beginning. Do you want to be in this place in 2, 5, 10 YEARS? You are setting a bad example for your kids.....


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## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Your husband is a serial cheater. What you have "caught" him doing is the tip of an iceberg.

Forget what you can afford and have some self respect, you need to drop him. This is your only life by the way.... this is how you are going to spend it?

If you need proof, open the doors that are right in front of you...for starters, contact the woman he blocked to see what they have to say...

Anyone that tells you to forget the past is trying to pull the wool over your eyes.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@placeholder I am so sorry that you found it necessary to seek us out, but so glad you found us.

You have been married for 23 years. But your husband has not been married for 23 years. 

He is what he is. It is highly unlikely that he will ever change.

You are not paranoid. What you might be is hypervigilant, which is an entirely different matter. https://www.verywellmind.com/hypervigilance-2797363

You have had 23 years of his abusive behaviour. could you see yourself living through another 23 years like this?

If a good friend of yours told you that she had gone through 23 years like you have gone through, what would be your advice to her?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You don't need proof, explanations, confessions or admissions. You know what is and has been going on. Your husband doesn't have to be physically cheating to betray you. The guy's a bimbo who actively seeks out attention from other women. If he were a woman, he'd be the one with the blouse cut to her navel, skirt so short her panties show and 6" high heels hanging around alleyways.

He doesn't respect you. What consequences has he endured as a result of his cheating? 

Read up on the 180 and implement it. It will allow you to detach from him until you get your ducks in a row. And, get tested for STIs.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*You are not paranoid, @placeholder 
~ It's roundly referred to as "gut instinct!"

Time for that exploratory visit with a good family law firm to look at your case! *


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You are not suspicious, your WH has destroyed your sense of trust and IMO he is still untrustworthy. Why would you hang on to this man? Go see a good lawyer to see where you stand. You probably have a form OF PTSD with all the emotional turmoil and his gas lighting. He does not care for you, kick him to the kerb.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

You have rugswept these cheating moments to a new level. Why because he let you be a caregiver to your ailing father. Forget the suspicions, and get, moving to a life you show your children.

Your repeating the cycle by example of your shouting matches and what they see! I am sure that somewhere you feel that your doing the right thing by staying wrong. 

Your willing to settle for the scraps that fall from the table, and your the last one in line, its like your WH, kids and then you but probably more ahead of you this isn't noble it just makes you a doormat.

Dump his sorry ass like last week's trash, because this is what he is. Don't worry he'll rewrite all of your marriage for him to be the victim of your broken love and marriage. He will not be lost without you, but find another to take your place. He's (to you is charming, thoughtful, caring, and BS others to be more than he is, why your still there 15 yrs later. 

Nothing will ever stop it's a game to him, and you mean nothing to him but to be a maid, and sex caregiver for HIS children. 

You think if you give him sex it will stop him, not on your life. He wins no matter what. Because he'll start again with poor little ole me crap. Take him to the cleaners in every way possible!!! If your in a place that infidelity can be use great, if not who cares drop the boom that this tragic so called marriage is still on going. 

What has happened in your life that YOU think your unloveable ot another. Why do you stay to earn your keep, everything wipes on you and you mistake that for strength it is just a convenient place for others to crap on you. Stop This Insanity!


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

I can guarantee his last PA was not 2010.... it is much more recent than that. He is clearly being dishonest with you now which means he is open to more affairs. You have to decide if you can continue living this way for the rest of your life or not because he’s not going to change.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

These are consequences for staying with a cheater, multiple times over.

This. Will. Never. Stop.

Look, you can't complain, really, because you have accepted this behavior. Being faithful is not a condition of yours to stay married. You have allowed it over and over again so why expect any change? And knowing this, you can only blame yourself or not enforcing consequences.

Just divorce him. Jesus.


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## Bremik (Feb 6, 2009)

There really must be a guide to messing with your partner for cheaters! They ALL want to just deal with the lying or cheating they are doing right now not what they have done in the past. Why can't we just move on?!?

My motivation is- past actions are great predictions of future actions. If that isn't enough then the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different end result.

As betrayeds we want to forget the bad and embrace the good but unfortunately another name for that is "enabling." Forgetting the bad does help us survive or at least function but it only further enhances the betrayers ability to manipulate us. They manipulate us to the point that we question our own sanity which keeps the whole cycle going.

You had to be hyper vigilant and have repeatedly found proof of betrayal. The fact it's happened so much that you know when conditions are right and you should be checking is a significant and important fact. He has done it enough, and you have been married long enough to know in your heart and gut he isn't going to change.

Listen to the experts on here of how to get out. I will say it is an extremely important first step to take advantage of a free initial consult from an attorney to get options. The hurdle for me was saying "divorce" and "27 years" when asked how long married. It may still take time afterward to convince yourself to move forward but the attorney consult step really clicked something in my head. Force yourself to do it.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

You have formed a sort of Stockholm Syndrome, where you rationally, and weakly accept the actions of this tormentor, your husband.

You are determined to keep your vows despite this action being one-sided. 

You continue to display deep loyalty to this shallow man.

Keeping your vows is admirable, but not necessary at this point in your marriage. 

Not with this crow-feather of a man. 

The wind can take him anywhere, he has no moral compass, and has no meaningful core values.

You are showing what is known as _unconditional love and forgiveness_. 
This works for Saints, and not for fools.

Save that love for you kids and your next husband.

Stop being so easy to assuage.

.........................................................................................................

We do this forgiving for our children, not for a sick and twisted lout of a husband.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Prodigal said:


> Most unemployed or underemployed spouses receive lifetime support.


Yes, this is true. 



placeholder said:


> I'm not financially able to leave and he knows this.


What a cowardly b***ard. A bully...... Why doesn't he pick on someone his own size? 

However, my advice to you is to do anything you can do to make yourself financially independent.



placeholder said:


> He blames my anxiety for my questioning of his fidelity, like a form of OCD. He blames my anxiety for everything. And he also seems to think my anxiety is as big a deal in our relationship as his infidelities.


Cheater's handbook, page 13, paragraph 2. Gaslighting. The lily-livered scoundrel is CAUSING your anxiety. You should waste this guy like a used Kleenex.



Bremik said:


> It may still take time afterward to convince yourself to move forward but the attorney consult step really clicked something in my head.


A good way to move forward is to set up your attorney consult having decided that you are going to take NO ACTION, only get the attorney's advice and experience.

Make actions that you take a decision based upon what you learn from your attorney, and from others who have BTDT.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Your husband is a POS. You need to recognize it.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I was married much longer than you when I finally divorced a serial cheater. Why did I stay so long? Many reasons but most of all because I continued to hope that he would change. But he never did. Serial cheaters live their lives without real regard for their families. They’ll tell you different and always say how much they love you, blah, blah, blah but don’t believe them. I did and I paid a very heavy price for staying. 

The truth is that serial cheaters feel entitled to live their life as they wish. That’s who they are. Their actions will never line up with their words. And the more they get away with the more they push the envelope. I look back at my decades of marriage and shake my head at how stupid I was to believe his lies. But I wanted to believe he was telling the truth because I wanted to stay married to him. Not listening to that voice telling me I was being played all those years was the biggest mistake of my life. 

Serial cheaters rarely want a divorce. They just want some “new toy” fun and excitement in their lives. They’re constantly on the lookout for the next situation. And they don’t stop. Why would they? This is what they live for.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

Openminded said:


> The truth is that serial cheaters feel entitled to live their life as they wish. That’s who they are.


I agree 1000%.

The entitlement comes out in so many ways:

-"I deserve to be happy."
-"Humans are not meant to be monogamous. I'm a great specimen and am just doing what comes naturally." (Actually, yes, we are programmed for monogamy.)
-"I'm so fabulous that I deserve to have MORE." (Read, "I'm superior to my shlep of a spouse.")
-"I'm in such great demand! My ego is huge! I deserve this! Did I mention that I'm so fabulous?"
-"Life is too short to spend it in such BORING ways. I'm far too fabulous to have earned such a boring existence. I'm fabulous."

The serial cheater does this as a way of life. The rest of us are just in denial of the 'natural' way of things. To them, we are adhering to a false social construct, but we all know deep inside that having multiple partners at once is the real deal, the authentic deal. The serial cheat is being 'honest' about how life 'really is' and is going alond with the 'lies' of society just to get by.

And, after all, the serial cheater is fabulous! (S)he is a gift to the opposite sex. Why deprive them of that?

Entitlement, entitlement, entitlement.

(To me it's always a bit karmic to see how these cheats cry such heart-rending tears when faced with divorce. They really don't want to lose their families, but they also can't fathom a monogamous life. That's OK for the losers among us, but they're so fabulous that they are entitled to more. When their worlds collide, they start facing their own cognitive dissonance for the first time - "What? You mean you don't want me anymore? But look at me! How can you resist such fabulousness? You mean I'm not entitled to my duplicitious life?" It's incredible how they all follow the same script.)


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I lament, serial cheaters are plastic, not solid, not cement.

Serial cheaters are those intermediary beings, just fluff.

They float between solid walls, a solid man on the left, a solid woman on the right.


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## rinnylong (Mar 10, 2020)

Seems like a serial cheater - you deserve better. This will be a life long battle. You need to squirrel away some money and do better for yourself. You need to set an example for your kids. Kids are smarter than we give them credit for. They know what is happening and will think that its normal for a man to be cheating and secretive and a woman to stay at home and take it. You have an opportunity to set an example for the next generation. He might be a good father and a husband at times, but he doesn't respect you, and how can you respect yourself?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why should he stop cheating if he knows you won't do a damned thing about it? You're clearly not going anywhere. He gets everything he wants. What's keeping you there?


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## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

Hi. Thank you all for the words of wisdom, advice, suggestions, and straight talk. Shortly after posting this, my state went into full on shelter in place. I had planned to see a lawyer, I was researching reputable contacts, and still will, but it will be several months out. So, for now, I'm sort of in this limbo state. I did confront him about the Facebook contact of former ow. He had a couple of explanations, sort of all related. The one he gave as his final answer was that he contacted her to apologise for his past ways. He didn't want to tell me because it seemed like a weird thing to do. He said she didn't remember him. She has some memory loss. She said she recalled she didn't like the way she acted post divorce and was embarrassed. Pretty convenient, right? I'm not buying it. Anyway life is too short to play detective, and to be married to a jerk. But for now, I have little choice. I'm not going to break up my kids' lives during a pandemic. 

As for my husband, suddenly, someone who doesn't know much about Facebook messenger knows how to delete contacts. Whatever. It's funny, I know that if he could just actually be honest about everything, I could work on clean-slating everything. But he is just such a coward and a fool, he can't even give me equal input and knowledge so I can make my own decisions about whatever is happening. He does the minimum of any sort of relationship work, with the kids, his best friend, or me, be it effort, gifts, compromise, time to get to know me, kids, etc.

I'm 75% certain recent things haven't gone physical, so I'm dealing with some sort of affair but not a PA-- YET. He is taking the pandemic measures seriously and is always home. So that is something I'm not worried about YET. 

I'm tired of antics. I'm tired of games and drama. I'm just sort of done. I'm considering bluffing and telling him I contacted this ow and see him react. He knows I could have. Then again, I just may wait out the next couple years and spring some D papers on him. Dunno at this point. Thanks again and hope all are well.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

If your husband is unwilling to even discuss his poor treatment of you and he turns it back around on you, he will never change. A person cannot change if they are unwilling to face their demons and repent. Your husband actively works against facing his own sins. Instead he makes it your fault in his own mind, which you hear him doing when he turns it back around on you. 

By not forcing the issue, you are enabling him, which means you are helping him to behave this way. You are actively working with him to allow him to treat you badly. Is this what you really want?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

placeholder said:


> I'm considering bluffing and telling him I contacted this ow and see him react. He knows I could have. Then again, I just may wait out the next couple years and spring some D papers on him. Dunno at this point. Thanks again and hope all are well.


_YEARS_? 🙄🙄

You just keep rearranging those deck chairs on the Titanic while he keeps ****ting all over you. I guess that's just your pattern these last 23 years. I'm honestly saddened that you have *so* little respect for yourself that you just keep burying your head in the sand in order to continue clinging to this vile POS.

Please read up on co-dependency. It would benefit you greatly.


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## Tilted 1 (Jul 23, 2019)

Why the two years?


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## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

Tilted 1 said:


> Why the two years?


Thanks for asking. I need to make a concrete plan, not just these piecemeal plans I've been making. I need to be financially more independent and stable. I cannot depend on his income or input, as I do not want to. Also, the kids have particular needs at this time that need more attention than me focusing on leaving or having him leave. Basically, their needs at this time, supercede mine. I'm a parent. It's my job to care for, prepare, and protect them, and at this time, I need to put more investment into their current health situation, so I can focus more on my needs in the future. To leave now or have him leave now would be way less advantageous to me (and my kids) in the long run. I'm stupid, clearly, with no self-respect, a glutton for punishment, and of course I don't deserve any sympathy or understanding in this matter. I'm not asking for any, but I can't just call it quits, as I need to untangle 23 years of marriage, while considering kids and pets. I can't risk things becoming worse for me, or them, long-term if I call it quits before I have more things in order. And my kids don't deserve to have two parents not considering the family's needs or future. Two years gives me plenty of time.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

When you begin untangling the 23 years you've been married, please keep in mind that he will have to pay you spousal support (a.k.a. alimony) for the rest of your life. As a rule, the courts deem a marriage of 20-plus years one of sufficient longevity to give the financially needy spouse a lifetime of support. Or, you could opt for a lump sum payout, which a friend of mine did. Granted, you need financial independence and stability, but to walk away with nothing is ludicrous. You were a partner in this marriage and contributed to its maintenance.

There is no need to be so altruistic with a serial cheater. By law, you deserve a certain percentage of the earnings and investments. You don't have to live with this jackass two or more years. When this pandemic becomes manageable - and I don't think it will be two more years - see a reputable family law attorney.

Kick this bum to the curb sooner rather than later. Seriously.


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## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

Prodigal said:


> When you begin untangling the 23 years you've been married, please keep in mind that he will have to pay you spousal support (a.k.a. alimony) for the rest of your life. As a rule, the courts deem a marriage of 20-plus years one of sufficient longevity to give the financially needy spouse a lifetime of support. Or, you could opt for a lump sum payout, which a friend of mine did. Granted, you need financial independence and stability, but to walk away with nothing is ludicrous. You were a partner in this marriage and contributed to its maintenance.
> 
> There is no need to be so altruistic with a serial cheater. By law, you deserve a certain percentage of the earnings and investments. You don't have to live with this jackass two or more years. When this pandemic becomes manageable - and I don't think it will be two more years - see a reputable family law attorney.
> 
> Kick this bum to the curb sooner rather than later. Seriously.


Yeah well he/we doesn't have a lot of assets. We took a real hit a few years back when his job was offshored. So we started over and still working on that. I'm not being altruistic. This is all about me and my kids now. It may be less than two years. I'm giving myself no more than two years. Save money. Boost my credit a bit. Continue with my ic. I have a few things I need to research and plan out to really make this transition work to mine and my kids' advantage, not just financially. And again, my family just went through a huge loss last year, we are rebuilding after that, and my kids have some health issues that need some undivided attention, at this time. Now with this pandemic, my intentions to secretly consult a lawyer have been delayed, but it will happen, hopefully by summer??😕

Thanks again.


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## Prodigal (Feb 5, 2011)

Does your husband earn a living and make a salary? Like it or not, half of that will probably be yours. As someone who left a marriage to an alcoholic, I can tell you, in all sincerity, that you will never have all your ducks (financial or otherwise) in a row. And I know of what I speak.

When I left my husband, I had no job, no health insurance, and I had cancer. Yep, cancer. But I'd had enough. Am I particularly brave? Nope. Am I some sort of crazy person who lives on the edge? Nope. BUT I KNEW WHEN ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH.

You are making excuses. Sorry. But you ARE. I left. Today, ten years later, I am cancer-free and living in a very nice place. Faith, my dear. Consider it. I'm living proof that, against what seems like insurmountable odds, it CAN be done. And I'm nobody special. Seriously.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

You likely won't leave when your credit score gets a boost, and your finances are better, and the sun shines at just the right angle. lol You will only leave when you believe you deserve better. That's the problem, all the rest of your excuses are just white noise. I'd spend this quarantine reading up on self-respect, and being married to a narcissist. Start repairing the problems inside of you first. Once you do that, you will have the strength to take care of your finances, credit, and move on from this fool. But, it all starts with improving how you see yourself.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

What are you doing now towards your goal?

Did you have an appointment to meet with an attorney that was cancelled? If you can't see an attorney right now, you can buy a book on divorce in your state, read it and know what your rights and responsibilities are and what the process looks like. If you don't think your husband will leave you, which it's very unlikely that he will, then don't even try to hide it. Read it in front of him. Let him know you're thinking of leaving him.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

placeholder said:


> *Throughout the years "we" would work on it.*


You're correct to put quotes around the word "we" because the *only *one working on anything was YOU. He just learned to get sneakier while he continued doing what serial cheaters do best - getting as much action as they can on the side and then coming home to lie to your face about how much they adore you and how loyal they are.

That's who serial cheaters *are*. And you, my dear, have yourself a bona fide, garden variety SERIAL CHEATER on your hands.

I see you've also discovered what a waste of time therapy is because you've gone _HOW_ many times now, and it's done absolutely nothing? Everyone thinks therapy is the "magic answer" to getting cheaters back on the straight and narrow but it's not. Most of the time, it's just an expensive dog and pony show.



> *I don't want any secrets, lies, or deceit.*


I'm just going to say it. What is wrong with you? I don't mean that in a mean or snarky way. I mean, what is so wrong with you that you're so *unwilling* to SEE the writing on the wall? He's had 23 years to be honest with you and he's STILL lying his damned head off! That's your first clue that you'll NEVER get honesty and clarity from this cheating POS.

How many MORE times does this guy have to **** all over you - while you gratefully take him back yet AGAIN like he's some kind of freakin' prize - before you *finally* open your eyes and start respecting yourself?

Honestly, *how many times* does he have to disrespect you before you start respecting yourself?

He's been *continually* cheating on you since Day #1. Surely you don't think you've actually caught him EACH time he's cheated on you????? You've only seen the tip of the iceberg with this degenerate. There is SO much more you have no clue about that it's not even funny.

If I were you I'd be seeing my lawyer in the morning, and then going to the local clinic for a full panel of STD testing in the afternoon. That evening, I'd be in my room putting together a budget for when you live on your own, and deciding exactly what items you'll be taking from the house of Hell when you finally leave.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Sfort said:


> *Your husband is a POS. You need to recognize it.*


Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, my friend.


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## placeholder (Mar 8, 2020)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, my friend.


Hey thanks.

Anyway, my husband is a narcissist. I can't just leave without a plan. I also have kids to consider. How did your kids take it when you decided to leave? Not all kids handle it as well. You suggest I just toss my husband out on the streets during a pandemic?? Hell no! I'm not going to have my kids look back at me like I'm the bad guy. My kids have had a pretty crappy year before the pandemic, so to do this would be a real jerk move, in their eyes. Do you suggest I just throw all of what my husband has done out in the open for my kids to deal with? That is just being vindictive and would put the burden on my kids. Sure, call me out on being a disrespected dummy. I guess I am. Am I being defensive? Yes. I already know I'm a pos. Obviously everyone knows.

I'll make my move. And I'm reading the suggestions here and some links I provided.









How to Prepare for Divorce – 54 Experts Share Their Best Tips


We asked a panel of divorce experts to share their best tips for how to prepare for divorce so it's peaceful from start to finish. Read their advice now.




www.google.com













How to Survive a Divorce with a Narcissist


After 15 years of marriage to her narcissistic husband, Jane finally asked for a divorce. They had been growin




pro.psychcentral.com













The Ultimate Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist


If you find yourself in the abominable position of divorcing a Narcissist, my first words to you are: Good luck and may God be with you. This is not a fight for the faint of heart, and you must be braver than you’ve ever been....




www.survivedivorce.com













13 Essential Tips If You Are Divorcing a Narcissist


A psychologist and an attorney offer expert advice.




www.google.com


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## Bd2014 (Apr 7, 2020)

placeholder said:


> Hey thanks.
> 
> Anyway, my husband is a narcissist. I can't just leave without a plan. I also have kids to consider. How did your kids take it when you decided to leave? Not all kids handle it as well. You suggest I just toss my husband out on the streets during a pandemic?? Hell no! I'm not going to have my kids look back at me like I'm the bad guy. My kids have had a pretty crappy year before the pandemic, so to do this would be a real jerk move, in their eyes. Do you suggest I just throw all of what my husband has done out in the open for my kids to deal with? That is just being vindictive and would put the burden on my kids. Sure, call me out on being a disrespected dummy. I guess I am. Am I being defensive? Yes. I already know I'm a pos. Obviously everyone knows.
> 
> ...


You are not a dummy!!!!
And I totally understand your situation and consideration. 
I have little children as well and can't make my moves how I want.


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

placeholder said:


> I appreciate the responses. A lot of good points. Myself, I don't think I'm being paranoid or too suspicious. I don't fully know if this is something that has lead to anything (yet). I was taking care of my now deceased father for the about 5 years, until he passed last year. It wasn't the time to make any big changes in my life or my kids. A year has just past and I am now refocusing on my future, and my kids' future as well. My husband was not fully neglected when I was my father's caregiver. Sure, maybe not as much focus as my husband wanted, but his life has always been pretty much his way, at least when it comes to our family. It's just not cool. We've all had a pretty awful few years watching my once vibrant father get sicker and sicker and die. I can't believe I have to deal with this again when it should be our time to all heal and grow.
> 
> My guess is my husband thinks there is no real harm if he still pays attention to me/family and does what needs to be done here. He probably thinks as long as he doesn't partake in anything physical, it doesn't matter and I'm just being difficult again. He blames my anxiety for my questioning of his fidelity, like a form of OCD. He blames my anxiety for everything. And he also seems to think my anxiety is as big a deal in our relationship as his infidelities. He can't see how my anxiety is worse because of his behavior and what it's put our family through. Somehow me being disrespected and being made a fool again is my perspective or something, that I need to loosen up or some nonsense. I really don't know what his logic is. It's all stupid. I have a lot to consider. I am going to confront him about the contact list. It's too weird and I need an answer.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback


I haven't read your whole post. This really reminded me of being a mother to a toddler. Very young children create havoc they need to be watched constantly. This is your husband, a grown man, but you are allowing him the same expectations of a small child. You should not need to watch him this closely. Get out now! Why would you put up with this?


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## m.t.t (Oct 5, 2016)

I promise you you will be a better mother if you remove this man from your home. It's hard with children I know. I would organize all of this during the pandemic. Then when it's over file. 

Someone once told me that years ago they left an abusive husband but were so poor they had to count the number of apples they bought a week. My motto after hearing that was I would rather count apples. My children are happy, my daughter 12 has never been happier. I'm a much better mother, you don't realize how much focus goes into a relationship like this. I'm happy. I'm self-employed, in control and I can afford extra apples! Life is better on the other side. Trust me on this.


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