# she said I'm becoming bossy...



## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

I’ve been working at changing myself…read N.U.T.S…MMSL…NMMNG as well as getting feedback from here and reading these boards. 

I’ve bought into changing myself and have been implementing it into our day to day lives as best I can – I’m learning. 

I manage a lot of people every day and I think i know how to be a leader… I was being crabby for a while when I’d come home from work for a lot of reasons, but I’ve stopped that 100%. I understand how unattractive that can be and looking back, I’m really disappointed in myself for being that way. I’ve also dropped the resentment (which helps with the crabbiness). I described myself as a bully in another thread as well…that has stopped as far as I’m concerned.

The hardest part is intimacy, because I’ve realized I have a real fear of rejection after all these years. I’m really trying to stay confident that we will work that out in time…that’s not something I think will resolve overnight…but it has gotten better. She still makes little comments when I initiate intimacy that seems like she wants to be in control like she always had been…and I have fun with that. As I said, it’s gotten better and hopefully will continue to improve.

Also…this week I asked my wife that I’d like to sit down and talk about the emotional needs described in the book “His Needs, Her Needs” and discuss what needs we are and are not providing the other…I fully expect my top needs with be the opposite of her top needs as described in the book, but either way, we will talk about it.

Anyway, my wife called be bossy yesterday…she said I’ve become bossy. This has to do with decisions I’ve made regarding small day to day stuff. For example, how the garage will be organized to get our cars in for the cold weather. The garage has always been my responsibility, and I’m glad to keep it in order or it will get very cluttered very fast. 

We’ve also implemented a budget for the household as well –obviously with her input as well. We discussed it and agreed there are places to cut back and stop waste. (we both have been guilty of that). For the past number of weeks she’s run out of money by the end of the week and is renegotiating it seems. (Christmas and holiday money did not come from budget FYI...just normal household expenses) 

She was totally onboard when I went through our expenses for 2011 and came up with a fair budget with contingencies factored in. I’ve heard …”we have money, why can’t I just move some from one account to the other”. I explained that we had to be disciplined and let's project the expenses out again and really talk about the numbers. We did and we both agree that the budget is generous and more than fair... She recognizes the extras that throw stuff out of whack. (very expensive hair appts...bad meal planning etc)

During one of our conversations about money she got frustrated and she brought up a 2 instances over the past 6 years that I’ve spent money on myself. (joining a golf club -5 years ago and buying a vintage car in 2011 –both very much within our budget). I asked her if she holds a grudge about those two things…she said no. I asked why she always brings those 2 instances up when money is talked about? Those 2 things are literally the only things I’ve splurged on in 6 years for me…and only me. There are minor benefits for her and the kids for golfing…but without a doubt, it was for me and it’s very healthy. We’ve been very fortunate and are very stable financially (college is funded for kids…house is paid for…have a healthy amount of savings being managed by a professional)…she agrees and backs off...basically gives up... but it always comes up.

Is this her way of $hit testing me? Calling me bossy…bringing up past expenditures? Seemingly still clinging to some control in the bedroom? There probably is a distinction between manning up and being bossy jerk. I honestly don’t think I’m being snarky at all… nor am I being a bully I don’t think. I’ve been very disciplined and remained calm cool and collected..even when saying "no". 

I re-read the notes I’ve taken from all the books above when I’m losing faith that this will work and help us be a better couple…but I could use some feedback. 

Thanks…


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## Laurae1967 (May 10, 2011)

Does your wife work? 

Does your wife have large splurges similar to the vintage car and golf club membership? If not, maybe she feels like when you really want something, you allow yourself to get it but the same does not go for her. She might feel like the stuff she spends money on is more maintenance related (hair, clothes, etc.). Did you ask her before you splurged on those two thingsor did you just do it? That might be an issue, too.

The other thing I would say is that your financial management style might not be hers. Not everyone wants to be anal about every penny spent. My brother in law is incredibly well off (he has $150K just sitting around in his checking account and millions in savings and investments) but my sister is really passive, so she doesn't mind that he won't allow her to get her hair professionally done or buy many clothes for herself. She had a great career and is now a SAHM and I think she feels like she doesn't have the right to spend "his" money. This works for them. It would NEVER work for me. 

However, your wife may just not want to have to cut back as much as you do. She may be trying to meet her needs through spending/shopping, which would indicate that she isn't meeting her emotional needs in other ways. Or she may just feel like living on a restrictive budget is a drag.

You also mentioned your fear of rejection and how it impacts your marriage. This is a HUGE revelation you have made. I would focus on wht you may need to let your guard down. It's hard to do, but important to the marriage. I am a big fan of counseling.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Orion the Hunter said:


> Anyway, my wife called be bossy yesterday…she said I’ve become bossy. This has to do with decisions I’ve made regarding small day to day stuff.
> 
> During one of our conversations about money she got frustrated and she brought up a 2 instances over the past 6 years that I’ve spent money on myself. (joining a golf club -5 years ago and buying a vintage car in 2011 –both very much within our budget). I asked her if she holds a grudge about those two things…she said no. I asked why she always brings those 2 instances up when money is talked about?
> she agrees and backs off...basically gives up... but it always comes up.
> ...


If you don't mind her calling you names, I don't see the problem. Ask her why she thinks you are bossy. Listen to her reasons, accept what you have done, apologize, state that you want to improve, and try your best to be better.

Regarding your money conflicts, don't ask her about herself, tell her about yourself. Say that you feel it is unfair to bring up this old stuff. Say that it hurts and you feel that you do not deserve to be made to feel bad. Ask if we can agree not to bring it up any more. Be consistent in your response.

And lastly, when she makes belittling comments in bed just say "I'm hurt that you would say this. Can I ask you to please not say this?" Make sure you respond within 24 hours of the event. Make sure you are unambiguous about how you feel and why. Don't blame, help her understand that you feel hurt as a consequence of her words and ask if she would not do it.


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## OliveAdventure (Nov 23, 2011)

I dunno, the way I see it only one person in the family has the TRUE last word.. You can both say 50/50 but if you both have an opinion about how something should be done, there will be conflict.. It almost sounds like you are both trying to be alpha in the relationship.. Like she is okay giving you alpha sometimes but she'd like it in other ways.. Which works if you're both ok with it.. It sounds like you'd like to be the primary decision maker for most things if not all.. 

Why not sit down and talk about what strengths she has in her decision making and what yours are.. 

Example: 

We have decided (without being verbal about it) that fiance takes charge of all electronic and technology decisions, although I still have a say.. 

I take charge of home decor, kids, food.. Although he has a say.

This is something that works for us. 

For major decisions, like where we will move, or what car we will buy, we both have a say, but if the reasons needs to fall towards the kids more, my points are valid... Unless I want a Ford and then game over


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Laurae1967 said:


> Or she may just feel like living on a restrictive budget is a drag.


I know I sure do


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## accept (Dec 1, 2011)

I would echo the last poster. I dont think its right to check everything your wife spends. Its better to give her a certain extra amount every week, if you can afford make it quite large and say spend it how you like and dont tell me afterwards what on. It makes for a much happier household. Isnt that more important than having a large bank balance.
Its no different than the money you 'waste' on insurance to have peace of mind.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Laurae1967 said:


> Does your wife work?


Not currently...she's been a SAHM since kid #1 was born 13 years ago. We have 3 kids ... 13yo Daughter and Twin Boys who are almost 11. I started some other threads about the fact the her SAHM role has changed dramatically since the kids got older, and I developed some serious resentment because I was still grinding everyday while she was enjoying a lot of freedom. I've since worked through that in my head...I think.



> Does your wife have large splurges similar to the vintage car and golf club membership? If not, maybe she feels like when you really want something, you allow yourself to get it but the same does not go for her.


She splurges on trips with her gal pals, clothing, shoes that sort of thing. We've also done some serious remodeling / redecorating she was in complete control of that budget...which I have just a twinge of buyers remorse over. Hopefully when the time comes to sell, we didn't over-improve. She wanted to re-do our living room and dining room and I said no...the timing isn't right.




> She might feel like the stuff she spends money on is more maintenance related (hair, clothes, etc.). Did you ask her before you splurged on those two thingsor did you just do it? That might be an issue, too.


As far as the car, I've been watching and looking at ebay for almost 5 years looking for the right car. I wanted an original with low miles and the right price. She was very much aware of that. She completely doesn't understand it, but she was aware it's something I've always wanted to do after a few of our priorities were checked off the list ( college funded, house paid etc). And it wasn't free, but also not a huge amount of money (less than 10k).

The golf thing was discussed at length too. I used to be very active in sports and leagues. After the kids were born and very young, obviously that had to stop. Golf now is a competitive outlet as well as my main social outlet outside the house. She also has friends there and they do the social events and women's golf outings too. She likes golf...I love it. Again the economics aren't horrible, if I decide to leave, I basically get my initiation fee back. The amount I pay to actually golf every year in dues is a reasonable luxury considering how much we all use the place.



> The other thing I would say is that your financial management style might not be hers. Not everyone wants to be anal about every penny spent.


Fair enough, but we both agreed we could do better. She was 100% in agreement with the budget when I put the numbers together. I think she's struggling with not having a blank check book anymore...she's enjoyed that for a long time. It started when I told her something has to give...if she wasn't interested in going back to work (which she wasn't at the time...she really fought me on that), I was going to start moving more of my salary into our long term retirement savings. If we continued spending like we were, it'd be a looong time before I could start cutting back at work or retire. We're both 46 by the way.




> My brother in law is incredibly well off (he has $150K just sitting around in his checking account and millions in savings and investments) but my sister is really passive, so she doesn't mind that he won't allow her to get her hair professionally done or buy many clothes for herself. She had a great career and is now a SAHM and I think she feels like she doesn't have the right to spend "his" money. This works for them. It would NEVER work for me.


Me neither...that's really not our dynamic at all. 



> However, your wife may just not want to have to cut back as much as you do. She may be trying to meet her needs through spending/shopping, which would indicate that she isn't meeting her emotional needs in other ways. Or she may just feel like living on a restrictive budget is a drag.


Fair enough...I know we're due for another budget talk here soon.



> You also mentioned your fear of rejection and how it impacts your marriage. This is a HUGE revelation you have made. I would focus on wht you may need to let your guard down. It's hard to do, but important to the marriage. I am a big fan of counseling.


I'm learning...like i said I read "his needs her needs" and am currently reading "Male Sexuality - Why women don't understand it - and neither do men" by Michael Bader.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> If you don't mind her calling you names, I don't see the problem. Ask her why she thinks you are bossy. Listen to her reasons, accept what you have done, apologize, state that you want to improve, and try your best to be better.


I don't like her calling me names, I think it distracts from the real issue, but I hear what you're saying.



> Regarding your money conflicts, don't ask her about herself, tell her about yourself. Say that you feel it is unfair to bring up this old stuff. Say that it hurts and you feel that you do not deserve to be made to feel bad. Ask if we can agree not to bring it up any more. Be consistent in your response.


We had something similar to that yesterday evening. She agreed that bringing up the stuff from 5 years ago didn't make any sense.



> And lastly, when she makes belittling comments in bed just say "I'm hurt that you would say this. Can I ask you to please not say this?" Make sure you respond within 24 hours of the event. Make sure you are unambiguous about how you feel and why. Don't blame, help her understand that you feel hurt as a consequence of her words and ask if she would not do it.


I follow... I used to go into a pout mode or something like that and it was a miserable feeling. It's improving though...and will continue to.

Thanks for the perspective.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

OliveAdventure said:


> I dunno, the way I see it only one person in the family has the TRUE last word.. You can both say 50/50 but if you both have an opinion about how something should be done, there will be conflict.. It almost sounds like you are both trying to be alpha in the relationship.. Like she is okay giving you alpha sometimes but she'd like it in other ways.. Which works if you're both ok with it.. It sounds like you'd like to be the primary decision maker for most things if not all..
> 
> Why not sit down and talk about what strengths she has in her decision making and what yours are..
> 
> ...


I guess that split decision thing sometimes works for us...when we finished the basement, she thinks I over spent on electronics and the bar area...I think she over spent on the furniture and decorations....so I guess that worked out fairly  We all have our priorities.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> I know I sure do


Well to be fair, it's really not restrictive... we both looked at our average spending for all our different expenses for the entire year in 2011. Every penny. I tacked on an additional 25% for contingencies and what not.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Orion the Hunter said:


> Well to be fair, it's really not restrictive... we both looked at our average spending for all our different expenses for the entire year in 2011. Every penny. I tacked on an additional 25% for contingencies and what not.


Orion,

Of course it's restrictive anytime you can't spend whatever you decide you want. I know I can't and it's a drag. Always has been. Always will be. I accept this without name calling or blaming anyone

I fell asleep at the wheel and let my wife lead with our finances for several years. I assumed the best and supposed that she was planning and budgeting and managing because I didn't want to be bothered with any of it and that's what I wanted to think. When I eventually woke up (thanks to a poster on this forum), we were spending over our income by more than $10k/yr and had been for several years.

This led to some very tense meetings and an agreement to live within our means and a realistic (and very liberal) budget. This was all done in a straightforward manner using widely accepted guidelines and agreed to by both of us at every step of the way.

But that would be too easy. My wife has a compulsive personality and spending (along with eating) is one of her compulsions. She couldn't accept any restrictions on her spending even though she agreed to the budget and living withing our income. She went off the deep end making disrespectful accusations and judgements, abusive rages, denying any responsibility, refusing to work together. Compared to what I have been called, being called "bossy" would be a joke.

If you don't like being called names, and I know I don't, then you need to let your wife know this by sharing something like "I don't like being called names like bossy and I would ask that you stop calling me that. This feels like character assassination to me and it hurts."


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

Ten_year_hubby said:


> Orion,
> 
> Of course it's restrictive anytime you can't spend whatever you decide you want. I know I can't and it's a drag. Always has been. Always will be. I accept this without name calling or blaming anyone
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you had to go through that. We had our share of overspending through the years and have managed to get out of it. When my income began to rise...and we were relatively debt free...it got a little out of control again with no consequences other than me building resentment.

I hear what you're saying about the restrictive thing...I guess when I read the following comments, I got defensive.


Laurae1967 said


> Not everyone wants to be anal about every penny spent.


accept said


> I don't think its right to check everything your wife spends.



Thanks for your perspective, it's appreciated. And I agree about the name calling and will address that in the future.


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## BigBadWolf (Nov 30, 2009)

Orion the Hunter said:


> Is this her way of $hit testing me? Calling me bossy…bringing up past expenditures? Seemingly still clinging to some control in the bedroom?


Classic Sh!t tests. 

I mean classic, from the textbook sh!t tests.




> There probably is a distinction between manning up and being bossy jerk. I honestly don’t think I’m being snarky at all… nor am I being a bully I don’t think. I’ve been very disciplined and remained calm cool and collected..even when saying "no".


Yes, there is a difference. 

Anybody can be a bossy jerk. 

But typically a "bossy jerk" is someone trying to motivate, but there are missing pieces of leadership, whether aptitude, inspiration, direction, resources, etc etc etc. The "bossy jerk" is trying too hard to compesate for this missing pieces.

A leader, seems at ease with his leadership. Nothing to hide.

"Manning up", like any good leadership endevour, is exuberating calmness, confidence, from yourself toward others, inspiring them to feel calm, and confident themself.

This is leadership, INSPIRING others to take actoin toward a goal. 



> I re-read the notes I’ve taken from all the books above when I’m losing faith that this will work and help us be a better couple…but I could use some feedback.
> 
> Thanks…


Yours post, it screams at me one thing:

Your wife, is deflecting some radical insecurity that she is ulitimately not going to meet your "standards", so she is going to bring up the vintage car, or the golf, or other nitpicks.

Really, your post is textbook perfect of someone really having their sh!t together, deliberate, organized, on the ball.

Yet you describe your wife has already faltered, rather quickly, on the budget, running out of money and creatively "reallocating" which bucket the christmas/holiday spending comes from. Guess what, she is not wanting a spotlight on that, believe me. Pull out the golf from 5 years ago, etc etc etc.

So two pieces of advice:

1. As effective as such organization, control, and all of "manning up" is, make sure you emphasize the end GOAL, to have a happy, healthy, successful, fullfilling, and FUN family structure, one that over the years you and your wife are building something to be proud of! 

Your wife, maybe is not seeing the forrest for the trees with your changes, make sure to communicate your vision with her, take time to show her the beauty of the forrest, and not fret so much over the trees. 

2. You giving the the vibe of almost being "too textbook" over the "manning up". Perhaps important now to shift gears, to not overly involve your wife in book exercises, or talking about these things too much. Is she really interested in the nuts and bolts? Really interested? 

Too much of her involvment can lead her to be suspicious, as if your own "manning up" was just following another man's advice.

Trust me on this one, a woman wants her man to be HIS OWN leader, so be cautious on the perceptoin you are giving, that you are not following a prescription, but are on a journey of self (re)discovery. There is a HUGE difference.

The analogy coming to mind, a musician pouring their heart and soul to master an instrument, playing scales, learning the chording, the progression, the modes, the proper fingerings. All well and good and textbook perfect, but now is the time to be creative, to take the chance and step up to write and perform a song!

A woman, she is not wanting to watch her man learn musical scales, she wants him to perform his song! 


Finally, this may help. Set a goal for yourself, at least once a day make your wife laugh out loud. Extra credit if you do so as a response to one of her sh!t tests. :smthumbup:

I wish you well.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

Orion the Hunter said:


> I guess when I read the following comments, I got defensive.


Understandable. They both contain an element of disrespect. My wife regularly attacks me personally over the limits to her spending. Although she realizes on a rational level that I can't just go out and get more for her to spend, she resents me on an emotional level because she can't do what she wants. Name calling, disrespectful judgements, scorn and sarcasm, it's tough to stand between an addict and their beloved.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

BigBadWolf said:


> Classic Sh!t tests.
> 
> I mean classic, from the textbook sh!t tests.
> 
> ...


Thanks Big Bad Wolf....really god stuff. I've read it 3 times this morning and it's very reassuring on so many levels. I also agree with your suggestions...especially #2.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

*Dean* said:


> Orion,
> 
> I'm sorry I couldn't help. By the way Congratulations for being relatively debt free!
> 
> ...


Thanks Dean...and I'm really trying to not end up like them. I really love my wife and family and truly want it to get better.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

The key points for future financial conversations go like this:
1. She needs to really and truly understand something. The closest emotional analog you will ever find in a marriage is this:
- A low drive stay at home spouse who sexually starves their high drive spouse creates similar feelings of tension, anxiety and resentment that a
- High income sole breadwiner creates with their non working spouse by squeezing them really tightly on money

BTW - you ARE NOT squeezing her tightly at all. Doing a budget based on actuals and adding 25 percent is GENEROUS.

If you treated her financially the way she has treated you sexually she would freak. I am not suggesting you do that. Two wrongs don't improve the situation. 

She is upset about the money because she wants unconditional love. The thing is from what you have posted she has largely lost her desire to please YOU. In and out of the bedroom. If you look at all her behavior from that vantage point you will be able to begin changing the dynamic. 

Married man sex life is a great book. Athol Kay. 

My guess is that your W NEVER plans to resume working for money because you earn so much more per hour than she likely could that she doesn't see the sense in it. And that may be true and even ok. But if you aren't careful you will end up gradually becoming nothing more than a mobile ATM machine. It will happen slowly - but surely. 




Orion the Hunter said:


> Thanks Dean...and I'm really trying to not end up like them. I really love my wife and family and truly want it to get better.


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## Orion the Hunter (Apr 20, 2011)

MEM11363 said:


> The key points for future financial conversations go like this:
> 1. She needs to really and truly understand something. The closest emotional analog you will ever find in a marriage is this:
> - A low drive stay at home spouse who sexually starves their high drive spouse creates similar feelings of tension, anxiety and resentment that a
> - High income sole breadwiner creates with their non working spouse by squeezing them really tightly on money


I never thought of it that way, but it does make sense. There is also tension, anxiety and resentment when the SAHM is living a semi-retired lifestyle now that the kids are older. Yoga, Lunches etc, etc... while the household stuff gets lower and lower on the priority list. I'm working hard on not letting that resentment rear it's head again... 




> BTW - you ARE NOT squeezing her tightly at all. Doing a budget based on actuals and adding 25 percent is GENEROUS.


I genuinely don't want either of us to stress about money, but I also don't want to continue doing what I'm doing forever and a day to support that. She does get that...now it's a matter of discipline I think.



> If you treated her financially the way she has treated you sexually she would freak. I am not suggesting you do that. Two wrongs don't improve the situation.


Agree with you on both points. 



> She is upset about the money because she wants unconditional love. The thing is from what you have posted she has largely lost her desire to please YOU. In and out of the bedroom. If you look at all her behavior from that vantage point you will be able to begin changing the dynamic.


She has lost that desire...and she's lost her appreciation for what it is that I do everyday. She's seems to be able to see things from her perspective only... 



> Married man sex life is a great book. Athol Kay.


Read it ... loved it. Working in executing it better everyday.



> My guess is that your W NEVER plans to resume working for money because you earn so much more per hour than she likely could that she doesn't see the sense in it. And that may be true and even ok. But if you aren't careful you will end up gradually becoming nothing more than a mobile ATM machine. It will happen slowly - but surely.


It is happening...I can see it and more importantly feel it. That's why I started looking around the net and found this site and began asking questions. I have learned a lot... I look back and feel like a chump on many levels. 

She has mentioned she will return to work, but it's literally kicking and screaming. When I told her our discussion about her working again always turn ugly because she is really fighting as hard as she can to let that not happen. Our discussion on this subject go on so many tangents its pathetic. We both get caught up in emotions and it ends...which was her goal I suppose. I really have made a decision to not get caught up in that BS again...it's horrible.

Thanks for your feedback...it really helps.


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