# Stop begging for sex!



## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

This can apply to either husband or wife, but since I'm a man, I will use a husbands point of view. Nothing said is meant to offend anyone, I hate people fighting on here.
First off, here are methods that almost never work, at least effectively: begging, guilting, bribing, threatening, rewarding, punishing etc.
If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else. If a marriage is strong, sex is a side effect from feeling close to each other, it will just happen. In my opinion, all the countless excuses are a way to make the uninterested spouse feel better about declining, to ease guilt or whatever?
As a man, and this is providing you are a good husband and taking good care of your wife, you shouldn't have to request sex and the more you do, the more your self esteem & manliness will dwindle. You become a dog waiting for a treat, because they made it all day without pooping on the rug.
Guys, like myself will obsess with what we are doing right or wrong, "am I doing too much, too little", read countless books, see therapists etc., and then end up more depressed because it didn't change anything. If your spouse continually tells you that you are perfect, they love you and wouldn't change a thing, then you are between a rock and a hard place. If spouses would just spell it out, a lot of this guessing and brainstorming wouldn't be needed.
I don't know any women who would be turned on by a guy trying so hard to have sex with her. It comes across as needy and insecure. I was guilty of this a lot in the past, but not anymore. 
One more thing, when it is offered don't turn it down. Whether it's duty sex, a quickie, whatever, it's still sex and still connecting, you never know when the well will completely dry up?


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## HiLibido (Dec 10, 2013)

And this has worked for you?


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

QFT! I've been saying this for years here. My once dead as the moon's surface sex life never improved until I quit begging, bartering and moping about it. Set your expectations and make sure your spouse understands them and why the are important to you. Next step, don't ask for sex. If you are communicating well with each other, they will know what you want without you sounding like a kid by asking permission.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

It may work for some, but didn't with my ex - which is a big part of why she is my ex.


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## Lone Shadow (Aug 5, 2014)

I dunno. Seems like punishing can work pretty well. If you have that kind of relationship. :FIREdevil:


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

BurningHeart said:


> This can apply to either husband or wife, but since I'm a man, I will use a husbands point of view. Nothing said is meant to offend anyone, I hate people fighting on here.
> First off, here are methods that almost never work, at least effectively: begging, guilting, bribing, threatening, rewarding, punishing etc.
> If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else. If a marriage is strong, sex is a side effect from feeling close to each other, it will just happen. In my opinion, all the countless excuses are a way to make the uninterested spouse feel better about declining, to ease guilt or whatever?
> As a man, and this is providing you are a good husband and taking good care of your wife, you shouldn't have to request sex and the more you do, the more your self esteem & manliness will dwindle. You become a dog waiting for a treat, because they made it all day without pooping on the rug.
> ...


I agree with everything you said except the last part. I don't want duty sex either. To me it's even WORSE than begging for it. You say you're "still connecting" but it's cloaked in duty, which in my opinion turns a positive into a big negative. 
I'm not a car that's needs it's oil changed every 3,000 miles.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

> If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else. If a marriage is strong, sex is a side effect from feeling close to each other, it will just happen.


Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. A true LD person will not respond with sex no matter how good, loving, and close the relationship is otherwise. It never even _occurs _to them, and isn't part of their fundamental nature. They will still actively _avoid_ sex most of the time, and may not even be aware of it.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. A true LD person will not respond with sex no matter how good, loving, and close the relationship is otherwise. It never even _occurs _to them, and isn't part of their fundamental nature. They will still actively _avoid_ sex most of the time, and may not even be aware of it.


I was going to quote the exact same part of the OP's post, and say exactly what you said about it.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

BurningHeart said:


> This can apply to either husband or wife, but since I'm a man, I will use a husbands point of view. Nothing said is meant to offend anyone, I hate people fighting on here.
> First off, here are methods that almost never work, at least effectively: begging, guilting, bribing, threatening, rewarding, punishing etc.
> If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else. If a marriage is strong, sex is a side effect from feeling close to each other, it will just happen. In my opinion, all the countless excuses are a way to make the uninterested spouse feel better about declining, to ease guilt or whatever?
> As a man, and this is providing you are a good husband and taking good care of your wife, you shouldn't have to request sex and the more you do, the more your self esteem & manliness will dwindle. You become a dog waiting for a treat, because they made it all day without pooping on the rug.
> ...


I have a little bit of a different take on this over the normal experience on TAM.. and posters here..

I love my Husband dearly.. always did, I had a decent sex drive.. I never wanted anyone else.. I never had pity sex.. when he got me going -I was ALL in , greatest connection and exhilarating pleasure known to man.. .. but for some reason I may never fully grasp... in my past.. I used to think .. "well that was phenomenal " & I'm good for so many days now...

.. I didn't need or seem to crave that release often enough, I was side tracked doing other things.. my mind elsewhere ... unless something aroused me...

MY H wanted more BUT.. and this is a BIG BUT.. he was too passive.. (not your average story here).. Oh he never begged.. Not once to me...for all I knew he was grand happy with getting what he got & didn't need any more than I did...

In all those years.. I can only recall 1 morning .. his asking me to give him a hand job, he felt in need .... and I felt soooo bad because I masturbated in the wee hours of the night -not wanting to wake him up -which stole my sexual energy...

From my perspective, I WISH he would have talked more about his needs.. maybe NOT begging.... but being so darn passive was not the way to go either. It would have been a good "heads up" for me...if he would have at least begged a little.. one can do this more creatively -in order to speak your needs , get them across to your wife.. ...so then I could have met him half way... 

I realize.. NOT the regular story around here though. I guess my H should applaud himself he wasn't a "beggar" - but still I would have preferred that over how he handled it -which does fall in line with what you suggest.. Being a good husband, never turning the wife down no matter what.. all true ..but we still missed each other.. and it shouldn't have been. (My regrets)..


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm greatly thinking that Burning Heart didn't even remotely have a LD spouse in mind when he made his statement. Given that, I think that in that absence, a partner desiring sex is much more atune to "making a pass" and habitually "going for it," largely provided that a couples non-sexual communication is going equally well for them!

But if constant rejection becomes the norm, then and only then, should the desirous partner make reasonable assumptions that something is wrong in the union, such as the prospect of infidelity psychological or physiological problems,, or even the rejecting partner's possibility of their own sex drive denegrating from a HD or MD level to the LD or ND strata!*


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

UMP said:


> I agree with everything you said except the last part. I don't want duty sex either. To me it's even WORSE than begging for it. You say you're "still connecting" but it's cloaked in duty, which in my opinion turns a positive into a big negative.
> I'm not a car that's needs it's oil changed every 3,000 miles.


I agree. I'm not a duty sex kind of person either, but every once in awhile is okay, just not the norm.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. A true LD person will not respond with sex no matter how good, loving, and close the relationship is otherwise. It never even _occurs _to them, and isn't part of their fundamental nature. They will still actively _avoid_ sex most of the time, and may not even be aware of it.


I am speaking more about sexually compatible couples. But I also believe emotions are what fuels sex drives. I don't know if LD and HD are actual medical conditions like people believe that they are. For me, depending on my emotional levels with my wife, I can be soaring or lifeless. Maybe it's just me? I do know that medicines can warp your drives, where you lose all control.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else.


This point being demonstrably false for many, the remainder of the post is suspect. Garbage in, garbage out.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> This point being demonstrably false for many, the remainder of the post is suspect. Garbage in, garbage out.


Do you at least with the title?


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UMP said:


> Do you at least with the title?


Absolutely. Begging for sex is counter-productive.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Cletus said:


> This point being demonstrably false for many, the remainder of the post is suspect. Garbage in, garbage out.


Posts are meant to be opinions, beliefs or suggestions. If you agree or disagree doesn't matter to me. Every person thinks differently. As long as I don't tick anyone off, I've accomplished what I've wanted.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> Posts are meant to be opinions, beliefs or suggestions. If you agree or disagree doesn't matter to me. Every person thinks differently. As long as I don't tick anyone off, I've accomplished what I've wanted.


Opinions that can be easily shown to be false are opinions that ought to be reconsidered.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

BurningHeart said:


> This can apply to either husband or wife, but since I'm a man, I will use a husbands point of view. Nothing said is meant to offend anyone, I hate people fighting on here.
> First off, here are methods that almost never work, at least effectively: begging, guilting, bribing, threatening, rewarding, punishing etc.
> If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else. If a marriage is strong, sex is a side effect from feeling close to each other, it will just happen. In my opinion, all the countless excuses are a way to make the uninterested spouse feel better about declining, to ease guilt or whatever?
> As a man, and this is providing you are a good husband and taking good care of your wife, you shouldn't have to request sex and the more you do, the more your self esteem & manliness will dwindle. You become a dog waiting for a treat, because they made it all day without pooping on the rug.
> ...


I just pooped on the rug!


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

BurningHeart said:


> Posts are meant to be opinions, beliefs or suggestions. If you agree or disagree doesn't matter to me. Every person thinks differently. As long as I don't tick anyone off, I've accomplished what I've wanted.


I like your opinions, whether I agree with them or not, and you can piss me off anytime you want to.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Pissing people off is half the fun!


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> Pissing people off is half the fun!


Depends on your kink. Some prefer pissing on people.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Depends on your kink. Some prefer pissing on people.


Well, OK, But can you at least let me sit in the tub and turn the lights off, have the water running, let me wear the gas mask, have that towel ready, make sure the door is locked, did you eat asparagus today? If so modify your diet and we'll try in a week or so, is your bladder full? can you pee a little before hand? the dog is watching, get him out of here, what was that sound? what the hell is on t.v.? can you turn it down?
Ok. I'm ready.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> Originally Posted by *BurningHeart *
> *If you two love each other, then sex isn't the problem, it's something else.*





Cletus said:


> *This point being demonstrably false for many,* the remainder of the post is suspect. Garbage in, garbage out.


Many times it's just mismatched libido's.. and everything else in the relationship really is GOOD...what we wanted it to be..that was US for 19 yrs.. I was too stupid to grasp the intensity of the male sex drive- then I got the opportunity to sit in that HOT SEAT wanting it all the time.. boy were my eyes opened!

Awesome lesson in that.. This is how I personally look at it when a couple is caring, and vowed to be there for each other... hopefully there is *a willingness* to be aroused by each other.. when one is feeling it, at the very least promise a romp (that night, next morning/day) & be there for them...keep that promise .

I tried to explain how I see that "willingness" in this thread...It started out as an argument between myself & H...but ended up with a pretty cool analogy, playing off of something he said.....that helped me look at it in a different light....a little stepping stone for me ...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...allowing-our-partner-turn-us-love-making.html

I feel if you are a giving / caring husband or wife, you would do what you could to not even allow your spouse to be put in the position *to beg*....

If they are resorting to it.. . more communication & leaning to help each other is in order...

My Husband never let me beg.. If he handled me differently pushing me away, however.. who knows!.. I know one thing.. too much rejection and I would have blown my stack !!...Lost hope in him...turning away feeling very alone.. I could see resentment springing pretty quickly in that.... not a good place to be..



> BurningHeart said :*Posts are meant to be opinions, beliefs or suggestions*.


 it's good to hear personal stories and what others have learned along the way.... nothing wrong with different opinions, suggestions...and the like.. what gets us in trouble.. and someone is always happy to correct us .. is if they smell "generalizing" .. other than that. all is good - or should be !


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

I like it.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Fozzy said:


> I just pooped on the rug!


I'm betting if you really did, no sex for you tonight. Probably a doctors visit instead. lol


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

I stopped begging my husband for sex about 10 months ago. Since then, we have had sex three times, the last time being five months ago. It hasn't made any difference to his level of interest in having sex with me. However, it has resulted in a rapid deterioration in our relationship which I expect to lead to a split as soon as is logistically possible for me.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

doobie said:


> I stopped begging my husband for sex about 10 months ago. Since then, we have had sex three times, the last time being five months ago. It hasn't made any difference to his level of interest in having sex with me. However, it has resulted in a rapid deterioration in our relationship which I expect to lead to a split as soon as is logistically possible for me.


Sorry to hear that. We've gone that long before, but after nearly 20 years in and 50 years old, I've just adapted to whatever happens and found contentment. Usually we're once a month or so.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Married but Happy said:


> Sorry, but this is complete nonsense. A true LD person will not respond with sex no matter how good, loving, and close the relationship is otherwise. It never even _occurs _to them, and isn't part of their fundamental nature. They will still actively _avoid_ sex most of the time, and may not even be aware of it.


I challenge the notion that LD is a common occurrence in people. I'm sure LD is a legitimate condition that some people suffer with, but the majority of LD people would find their sex drive if they would end up with someone else that they can respect. Empirically, this looks to be the case.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> This point being demonstrably false for many, the remainder of the post is suspect. Garbage in, garbage out.


I think this would be false for a minority of people. For the majority of people, if the marriage is strong, then a healthy sex life will be a natural byproduct. That's how it interpret his post.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I challenge the notion that LD is a common occurrence in people. I'm sure LD is a legitimate condition that some people suffer with, but the majority of LD people would find their sex drive if they would end up with someone else that they can respect. Empirically, this looks to be the case.


Depends on your definition of common. 

Let's assume anyone 2 sigma left of the mean of sexual desire is considered LD. There are roughly 225 million adults in the country. 95% will be within 2 sigma, and 2.5% will be LD under this definition.

That leaves a whopping 5.6 million adults in the US who are by definition LD. Move the definition to 3 sigma, and the count is STILL over 1 million. No doubt the spouses of that group are over-represented here.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> Depends on your definition of common.
> 
> Let's assume anyone 2 sigma left of the mean of sexual desire is considered LD. There are roughly 225 million adults in the country. 95% will be within 2 sigma, and 2.5% will be LD under this definition.
> 
> That leaves a whopping 5.6 million adults in the US who are by definition LD. Move the definition to 3 sigma, and the count is STILL over 1 million. No doubt the spouses of that group are over-represented here.


I think the population has been optimized to 6 sigma, so only 2 people out of a million are LD... 

Seriously though, even at 2 or 3 sigma levels, I think the premise of the OP holds for the majority. One to 5 million adults sounds size able except when dispersed among the US it's relatively uncommon. This assumes sex drive is normally distributed, which I'm not so sure of.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think the population has been optimized to 6 sigma, so only 2 people out of a million are LD...
> 
> Seriously though, even at 2 or 3 sigma levels, I think the premise of the OP holds for the majority. One to 5 million adults sounds size able except when dispersed among the US it's relatively uncommon. This assumes sex drive is normally distributed, which I'm not so sure of.


I'd be willing to bet a week's pay that as long as you separate the sexes (which would probably make it bi-modal), it is Gaussian. I can't imagine what other distribution would fit.

5 million is like more than half the population of NYC. Sure they're spread thin, but the state you're living in has on average over 100,000 of them.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> I'd be willing to bet a week's pay that as long as you separate the sexes (which would probably make it bi-modal), it is Gaussian. I can't imagine what other distribution would fit.
> 
> 5 million is like more than half the population of NYC. Sure they're spread thin, but the state you're living in has on average over 100,000 of them.


I think it could be bimodal as well if we divide the population. But the question would have to be worded carefully to get realistic results. It may not be continuous data if we're talking frequency of copulation vs the desires for wanting to copulate. It may need to be studied as ordinal data. IDK.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I just grunt and pick her up. She knows what comes next.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I think it could be bimodal as well if we divide the population. But the question would have to be worded carefully to get realistic results. It may not be continuous data if we're talking frequency of copulation vs the desires for wanting to copulate. It may need to be studied as ordinal data. IDK.


LD is Low Desire, so I think you'd have to use desire as the measure. Lots of folks in relationships are having sex more than they would if left to their own devices - probably just about as many as are having less!


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Married but Happy said:


> It may work for some, but didn't with my ex - which is a big part of why she is my ex.


And that's ok too. People need to have standards and then consequences for not having thier needs met. I hope you found someone more in line with your desires


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## Adeline (Jan 24, 2014)

well, there is no one size fits all. I personally would be over the moon if my husband begged me for sex.


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## mikey69696 (Oct 30, 2012)

lots of assumptions in your blanket statement of "stop begging".

For me, once I stopped begging, we stopped having sex...for 5 years.

Now 2 years of MC and "begging" got us together for half a dozen times in the last year. Now that "begging" is over again, nothing for the past month. So do you see where this goes with someone with a LD partner.....


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

mikey69696 said:


> lots of assumptions in your blanket statement of "stop begging".
> 
> For me, once I stopped begging, we stopped having sex...for 5 years.
> 
> Now 2 years of MC and "begging" got us together for half a dozen times in the last year. Now that "begging" is over again, nothing for the past month. So do you see where this goes with someone with a LD partner.....


I hear you. I'm married to an LD woman. Same thing happens to me, I quit "begging" and it turns into 3 months. I personally got to a point where I felt un manly and insecure always being the one asking.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Wolf1974 said:


> And that's ok too. People need to have standards and then consequences for not having thier needs met. I hope you found someone more in line with your desires


Thank you. I did. I really, really did!


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> LD is Low Desire, so I think you'd have to use desire as the measure. Lots of folks in relationships are having sex more than they would if left to their own devices - probably just about as many as are having less!


And that takes us into the world of subjectivity - which is probably inevitable given the subject matter of libido. But then again, if you give a group of people a small electronic device to carry with them, and every time they feel a desire for sex - or maybe even just aroused - and that data is transformed into frequency over time then we would be back to the continuous data world.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

mikey69696 said:


> lots of assumptions in your blanket statement of "stop begging".
> 
> For me, once I stopped begging, we stopped having sex...for 5 years.
> 
> Now 2 years of MC and "begging" got us together for half a dozen times in the last year. Now that "begging" is over again, nothing for the past month. So do you see where this goes with someone with a LD partner.....


What's more probable - that she was always LD from the get go or that she "lost" her desire over time? If it's the latter, it's quite possible that she lost attraction to you for whatever reason. That loss may not even be due to anything you did but something she did, like put all her energy in the kids for example. Or she may not be attracted to you if you gained 20 lbs or more. Who knows?

You don't have to answer or defend yourself. I'm pointing out that in we don't know the true reason for your wife not having a desire to have sex with you. I've found that there are a number of people who are puzzled about why their sex life tanked only to later find out that the person made a series of choices or life events happen that resulted in the change in attraction. It tends to be easier to people to simply throw up their hands and state "he/she is simply LD and I can't do anything about it" because otherwise he/she would have to acknowledge that it's something they are doing that caused the issue.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I'm pointing out that in we don't know the true reason for your wife not having a desire to have sex with you. I've found that there are a number of people who are puzzled about why their sex life tanked only to later find out that the person made a series of choices or life events happen that resulted in the change in attraction. It tends to be easier to people to simply throw up their hands and state "he/she is simply LD and I can't do anything about it" because otherwise he/she would have to acknowledge that it's something they are doing that caused the issue.


We can and should look at ourselves to see if we can identify changes that may have led to our spouse's LD. However, sometimes those changes are positive ones, and some are beyond our control, and some can't be reversed our undone, and some are too worthwhile to even want to undo.

So, while it may be useful at times to know why the change happened, I think that often it can't be changed back and often you won't want to. At least then you know that the LD is beyond your control and can decide to live with it or leave. Of course, there are still many LD spouses where the change is on their side, and often that is also beyond their ability or desire to change.

IMO, a small subset of the sexually mismatched couples can correct the issue and regain (or maybe create) a happy sex life. For the rest, I think it's insoluble - you then choose what to do about it. For me, it was leave.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What's more probable - that she was always LD from the get go or that she "lost" her desire over time? If it's the latter, it's quite possible that she lost attraction to you for whatever reason. That loss may not even be due to anything you did but something she did, like put all her energy in the kids for example. Or she may not be attracted to you if you gained 20 lbs or more. Who knows?
> 
> You don't have to answer or defend yourself. I'm pointing out that in we don't know the true reason for your wife not having a desire to have sex with you. I've found that there are a number of people who are puzzled about why their sex life tanked only to later find out that the person made a series of choices or life events happen that resulted in the change in attraction. It tends to be easier to people to simply throw up their hands and state "he/she is simply LD and I can't do anything about it" because otherwise he/she would have to acknowledge that it's something they are doing that caused the issue.


I finally got to the point of just waving the white flag. Several years of an emotional rollercoaster, trying to figure out if it was me or her, she kept insisting it wasn't anything I did or didn't do and she loved me the same etc., so I let my sex drive sync with hers. When she wants to, great, if she doesn't, that's okay too. We have lost closeness over the years, but we have fun together so I adapted. If I was in my 20s or 30s, instead of 50, I probably wouldn't still be here. I had higher hopes for myself.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

BurningHeart said:


> I finally got to the point of just waving the white flag. Several years of an emotional rollercoaster, trying to figure out if it was me or her, she kept insisting it wasn't anything I did or didn't do and she loved me the same etc., so I let my sex drive sync with hers. When she wants to, great, if she doesn't, that's okay too. We have lost closeness over the years, but we have fun together so I adapted. If I was in my 20s or 30s, instead of 50, I probably wouldn't still be here. I had higher hopes for myself.


It's never to late. You only get so many years on the planet. You don't want to be 60 feeling the same way. Make a change to find yourself happiness


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

I've reposted this before. My original post from 07-25-2012 came from a thread with almost the same title.



Amplexor said:


> Any one that knows my story will recall that my wife and I were in a very bad place a few years back, hit bottom, damn near divorced but journeyed to a very long but successful recovery. We are very strong as a couple today, committed and loving.
> 
> However our sexual drives are still a mismatch. We deal with the problem better than we used to but had made little progress. I understand my wife is in menopause which has lowered her previously high-drive. With menopause has come an increase in weight lowering her self esteem. And her job is very stressful leaving her exhausted at the end of the day. I am very empathetic to her feelings on all three but there are two people in the marriage.
> 
> A few months ago we had "that talk" again and again it took a familiar path. Stress, weight, drive... With empathy and respect I told her I understood all those reasons but that quite frankly she has done nothing to try and address them and that I didn't see this ever improving much over where it was today. I told we were going to try a different path this time. "For the next 60 days, I want you to submit yourself to me when I want sexual intimacy." My wife is extremely strong willed and independent of soul. Her icie blues flashed for a moment then she took her stare off of me, thought about it and responded, "That's not an unreasonable request." Initially she found it a bit awkward ("knowing she had to") but we settled into a very good pattern. My wife does enjoy sex when we get started so she was not being "dutiful" during it. Keep in mind, I am in my mid 50s so I'm not swinging wood five times a day any more. 2 or 3 times a week is more than sufficient for me. It put us in a good rhythm that has continued on passed the initial period. She has also begun to work out regularly and watching her diet more closely. When we went though our R one of the things we did was rebuild the foundation of the relationship and two areas we became much more successful at then we had been previously were communication and empathy. Both had a strong part in helping us improve this area of the marriage.


Nothing has changed from the day I posted this. My wife is still low drive but our sex is frequent, passionate and hot. 

There is a big difference between "stop begging" and "quit trying". While I agree with much of what the OP states, the mere fact that everything else in the marriage is good, will lead to a great sex life is false. A healthy relationship can foster the environment for a good sex life but doesn't guarantee it especially in a HD/LD situation. 

Previous to the implosion of our marriage a few years back I quit begging, bartering and pursuing her for sex. But I also quit trying or caring. The result was a slow withdrawal from the emotional connection from me, resentment grew and the two of us moved further and further away from each other. Doobie is following that path now as are others on this thread. Eventually the marriage fell in to complete disrepair culminating in her emotional affair. The post above came about two years after we reconciled.

If the bulk of the marriage is healthy, I am a firm believer that a HD/LD relationship can work if needs, boundaries and consequences are fully communicated. The key to our success was not that I "demanded" a sex life from her, it was that I had finally found a way to communicate to her why a regular sex life was important. For me to keep a tight emotional bond with her, I need to couple with her on a regular basis. Just as important, she understood the consequences if we fell back into an old pattern. Withdrawal, resentment and a break down in the marriage. The conversation was factual and business like. There was no machismo but no begging either. I didn't ask, I stated what I required to be happy in the marriage. She has requirements too for her own happiness. I honor those, it a part of our relationship to keep us in balance. 

Now three years down the road I could count of one hand the number of times she has declined sex when I initiate it (not asked for it, initiated it). On occasion, she will initiate it also. We've not had another conversation about our sex life other than a positive one since.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I was married to my LD husband for twenty years. It s*cked.

Quite honestly, I don't think there's ANYTHING I could do to fix the situation. Tried everything. Marriage counseling, sex therapy, initiating, not-initating, prayer, countless books, sexy lingerie, candles, date nights, etc.

Bottom line. I was married to the WRONG person for me. We were sexually incompatible. His definition of intimacy was not even close to mine. And the sex we did have was pretty lousy because we weren't "connecting."

I really believe it comes down to choosing the right partner for you. Not all relationships work. They just don't.

My life with my SO is the complete opposite of my marriage. We are both still insanely attracted to each other. And when you're that attracted to your partner, sex occurs naturally and frequently.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

For the record, I'm not saying that everyone who has frustrations with their sex lives are always to blame for turning their partners off. I believe that the assumption that a cold partner is always an LD issue is an oversimplification. I believe more cases are due to situations/circumstances as opposed to legitimate LD. But I can understand how a person can be frustrated by an LD spouse no matter what he/she tries to make things better.

To me, a true LD person is one who never showed a "normal" or strong libido ever in his/her life. Whenever a person begins by having a normal drive or an above average drive but that drives tanks, to me that indicates there is a cause that resulted in the "LD partner" deviating from his/her otherwise normal state. It may be an emotional/situational thing, it may be hormonal or it may be due to other physical maladies. But to me, these types of situations are a deviation from the normal state due to some cause.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Whenever a person begins by having a normal drive or an above average drive but that drives tanks, to me that indicates there is a cause that resulted in the "LD partner" deviating from his/her otherwise normal state. It may be an emotional/situational thing, it may be hormonal or it may be due to other physical maladies. But to me, these types of situations are a deviation from the normal state *due to some cause.*


I agree completely. But it also may be that one of the partners just isn't attracted to the other person anymore. As in, their partner no longer "does it" for them, no longer "floats their boat" (or perhaps, never did at all?)

I'm certainly not suggesting that people should just bail from a relationship without trying to fix it, especially when it comes to sex. But I honestly believe a lot of people overlook just how important attraction and "spark" is when choosing a lifelong mate. Many people look at all of the mate's attractive qualities, ignore HUGE red flags in the sexual arena, and hope things will improve over time. I know I did exactly that when I got married.

Sadly, if the chemistry part doesn't click (as in move mountains) in the beginning, it likely never will.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

happy as a clam said:


> I agree completely. But it also may be that one of the partners just isn't attracted to the other person anymore. As in, their partner no longer "does it" for them, no longer "floats their boat" (or perhaps, never did at all?)
> 
> I'm certainly not suggesting that people should just bail from a relationship without trying to fix it, especially when it comes to sex. But I honestly believe a lot of people overlook just how important attraction and "spark" is when choosing a lifelong mate. Many people look at all of the mate's attractive qualities, ignore HUGE red flags in the sexual arena, and hope things will improve over time. I know I did exactly that when I got married.
> 
> Sadly, if the chemistry part doesn't click (as in move mountains) in the beginning, it likely never will.


Interestingly enough, when I first got married I was LD and my wife was HD (or at least higher than mine).
Along the way, after 3 kids, my drive became higher than hers.
Along the way, when the kids grew up, her drive bumped up to a now more or less equal desire with mine.
And so it goes....


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

> If the bulk of the marriage is healthy, I am a firm believer that a HD/LD relationship can work if needs, boundaries and consequences are fully communicated.


I suppose this can be true. And it is also true that a great sex life can keep a couple together when there are other problems. 

The problem I have is the use of the "sex is a sympton approach" often means that when a couple encounters a sexual problem they are sent off to find the "other" problems in their marriage that must exist.

In any long term marriage if you look hard enough you will find an issue and that issue will suddenly take on a level of importance it didn't have before. 

Sexual issues are an emotional mindfield and it can be too easy and too tempting to shift blame and avoiding being the one responsible for "fixing" the situation.

It is a truism to say sex is related to other issues in a marriage since marriage is an organic whole and there are no truly isolated issue. I'm not at all saying sex problems are simply a matter of "fixing" the LD spouse and making more sex happen. But simply rules like "sex is a symptom" are nearly useless.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Wolf1974 said:


> It's never to late. You only get so many years on the planet. You don't want to be 60 feeling the same way. Make a change to find yourself happiness


I've found contentment. Sometimes that is as good as you can expect. No guarantees in life and a lot of people never reach that point. "glass half full" mentality.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

BurningHeart said:


> I've found contentment. Sometimes that is as good as you can expect. No guarantees in life and a lot of people never reach that point. "glass half full" mentality.


Contentment is great. Unfortunately my contentment cycles with the frequency and quality of my sexual encounters with my wife.

I got laid last night, so I'm pretty content, at the moment.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

It got to the point before i stopped even wanting any sexual contact with my ex-wife that she would offer a handjob if i would go get her a starbucks latte.

For awhile I agreed, but it was frustrating and annoying and totally really not worth it.

It dawned on me that she was not low desire (cheating long term and I finally got the truth of it out of her),* she just was not desiring me*. Loved the economic resources from me, and that was all.


Sometimes it is not mismatched libido. sometimes a cheater just doesn't want you anymore.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> I've found contentment. Sometimes that is as good as you can expect. No guarantees in life and a lot of people never reach that point. "glass half full" mentality.


I have resized the glass appropriately for its contents.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Cletus said:


> I have resized the glass appropriately for its contents.


That sounds like an engineering solution from the product packaging realm.

Marketing types will just try to convince you that less is more.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Lionelhutz said:


> I suppose this can be true. And it is also true that a great sex life can keep a couple together when there are other problems.
> 
> The problem I have is the use of the "sex is a sympton approach" often means that when a couple encounters a sexual problem they are sent off to find the "other" problems in their marriage that must exist.
> 
> ...


Totally agree with this.

The "sex as symptom" mindset just results in the HD spouse endlessly jumping through hoops.

Once you've addressed one supposedly underlying problem you will find that, actually, we don't have sex because you are still doing something else that is bad.

The more you chase the carrot the more problems that will be revealed as "preventing" you from having sex.


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I challenge the notion that LD is a common occurrence in people. I'm sure LD is a legitimate condition that some people suffer with, but the majority of LD people would find their sex drive if they would end up with someone else that they can respect. Empirically, this looks to be the case.


My husband does respect me and want me and I have no doubt that he loves me, he just never wants sex. I'm sure he would be the same with another partner if it came to that. Married But Happy described the situation perfectly with the words "_It never even occurs to them, and isn't part of their fundamental nature. They will still actively avoid sex most of the time, and may not even be aware of it." _

Although we're both in our fifties, we've only been married 2 years and the regular sex stopped on our wedding night. Obviously, when this problem first presented, I looked to myself to see what I was doing wrong that was turning my H off. I haven't put on weight, I haven't changed my appearance or my behaviour in any way. After a year of having sex once every six weeks or so I began discussing the problem with my H who admitted that he just never thinks about having sex (he seemed to think about it plenty before we got married though). Had I known what it would be like, I would never have married him - after spending most of my adult life avoiding marriage (and having a great sex life), I now find myself in a position where somebody else has chosen celibacy for me. I feel cheated - this just seems so unfair that he hid his low sex drive from me until after we got married.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> Totally agree with this.
> 
> The "sex as symptom" mindset just results in the HD spouse endlessly jumping through hoops.
> 
> ...


Sounds hopeless.
That is NOT my case. I have changed myself to become more like I was when we got married 23 years ago.
1. Lost 40 pounds
2. Stopped begging for sex
3. Got hold of my anger issues
4. Got my old hobbies back
6. Started working out
7. Stopped being so anal about everything in my household
8. Learned to deal with sexual rejection without anger and resentment 
etc. etc.
All the above was part of me when we got married and something I lost along the way. Changing these has directly and positively effected our sex life. It has also made me a happier and healthier person. I'm so very glad I jumped through all those hoops.


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## Lionelhutz (Feb 2, 2012)

UMP said:


> Sounds hopeless.
> That is NOT my case. I have changed myself to become more like I was when we got married 23 years ago.
> 1. Lost 40 pounds
> 2. Stopped begging for sex
> ...


Not hopeless since few things in human behavior are. There will always be exceptions and a case study in support of most theories. There are tendancies and probabilties.

I am happy for your situation and I hope it lasts.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Lionelhutz said:


> Not hopeless since few things in human behavior are. There will always be exceptions and a case study in support of most theories. There are tendancies and probabilties.
> 
> I am happy for your situation and I hope it lasts.


I do need to hear what you and others say. I have the tendency to naively think that what I did will work for everyone.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

UMP said:


> Sounds hopeless.
> That is NOT my case. I have changed myself to become more like I was when we got married 23 years ago.
> 1. Lost 40 pounds
> 2. Stopped begging for sex
> ...


All of the stuff about improving yourself is good. Nothing on this list is the typical "if only you would do laundry" or "active listening" crap.

I do question #8 though. I agree that you shouldn't be so invested that you can't handle rejection. On the other hand, you should not be in a position where your spouse is routinely rejecting you in the first place.

The fact is, there are plenty of women out there where having sex with them is not like threading a needle.

If you have to so precisely calibrate your behavior to simply have sex with your wife, then the problem is beyond you.


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

I have been reading here for a long time but do not post very often. I have been studying the issues and dynamics of mismatched desires (including my own marriage). I believe I have narrowed it down to a simple statement.

People "in love" look for reasons to have sex, people not "in love" look for reasons to avoid sex.

Excluding of course the people that have medical conditions or the rare true ND people.


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## mikey69696 (Oct 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> What's more probable - that she was always LD from the get go or that she "lost" her desire over time? If it's the latter, it's quite possible that she lost attraction to you for whatever reason. That loss may not even be due to anything you did but something she did, like put all her energy in the kids for example. Or she may not be attracted to you if you gained 20 lbs or more. Who knows?
> 
> You don't have to answer or defend yourself. I'm pointing out that in we don't know the true reason for your wife not having a desire to have sex with you. I've found that there are a number of people who are puzzled about why their sex life tanked only to later find out that the person made a series of choices or life events happen that resulted in the change in attraction. It tends to be easier to people to simply throw up their hands and state "he/she is simply LD and I can't do anything about it" because otherwise he/she
> would have to acknowledge that it's something they are doing that caused the issue.



Yes she was always LD. She was also emotionally abused by her father growing up. She has major body/self image issues. We used to have sex once a week, I always initiated. After almost 20 years I grew weary of tip-toeing around and staying on her good side to get some attention that I stopped being the doormat and stopped catering to her every demand. That is when sex stopped too. 
Now that 'things are better' and the last kid is a senior in high school, we have more time alone and guess what, she is now complaining that we can't have sex when nobody is home...which for years she wouldn't have sex when the kids 'were' home.
It's obvious to me that she still is LD and she still has 'hang-ups' around sex. All this after 2 years of MC. 
MY situation while probably not unique skews what the OP was trying to get at. If everything else in the relationship is 'normal' then working on sex should be easy. Well nobody's relationship is normal...from what I see here.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

michzz said:


> It got to the point before i stopped even wanting any sexual contact with my ex-wife that *she would offer a handjob if i would go get her a starbucks latte.*




I don't even LIKE Starbucks coffee (think it tastes like an ash tray!!)

At the very least, she could have asked you for something uber cool and retro... like a Manhattan or an Old Fashioned.

:rofl:

(Seriously though, I feel your pain. I was also married to a LD spouse. He thought if he brought the newspaper in every morning that was enough. I told him I could train our DOG to bring in the newspaper )


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> To me, a true LD person is one who never showed a "normal" or strong libido ever in his/her life. Whenever a person begins by having a normal drive or an above average drive but that drives tanks, to me that indicates there is a cause that resulted in the "LD partner" deviating from his/her otherwise normal state. It may be an emotional/situational thing, it may be hormonal or it may be due to other physical maladies. But to me, these types of situations are a deviation from the normal state due to some cause.


My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that. 

Two days in a row? "OMG you want sex again. We just had it last night and its still morning. Can we at least wait until tonight?"

She has ALWAYS been like this. No CSA, no abuse of any kind, loving parents, they are all non drinkers, non smokers. All her siblings and her are are college educated. I am the one who barely graduated H.S.

I felt lucky to have such a sweet woman with a normal family without the baggage I had.

She was and still is an overall good girl and a great loving mother to our daughter. She has never asked or implied for me to change anything. " your great just the way you are"

That didn't stop me from trying to improve myself.That didn't work either.

I always thought over time, it would improve.

Would you consider her asexual/LD?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Always Learning said:


> People "in love" look for reasons to have sex, people not "in love" look for reasons to avoid sex.


Nope. 

People who are HD look for reasons to have sex.

People who are LD or gray or asexual find reasons to not have sex.

Love doesn't matter in this equation. HD will still be HD, whether in love or not.

LD can be situational or it can be pervasive...which one it is might or might not be connected to how in love they are...but if they are truly LD, they ain't gonna be trying to have a lot of sex (in the long term) no matter how in love they are.

A big problem in relationships is that there is more sex in the beginning, during which time LD can be masked by "new relationship energy". New relationship energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, HD will want a lot of sex whether in love or not, and even sometimes when NOT in love anymore but still married to.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Trickster said:


> My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that.
> 
> Two days in a row? "OMG you want sex again. We just had it last night and its still morning. Can we at least wait until tonight?"
> 
> ...


She sounds extremely sexually repressed and ignorant. Religious family?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Trickster said:


> My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that.
> 
> Two days in a row? "OMG you want sex again. We just had it last night and its still morning. Can we at least wait until tonight?"
> 
> ...


I would put my wife in a similar category. She's 46, never masturbated, sex only with our past spouses, thinks oral is disgusting & too "germy", missionary only, gets "wet" but not always, never had fantasies, doesn't care about receiving pleasure at all & mostly just appeases me, doesn't hate sex, but can easily live without it. Still a great woman, with a big heart & very caring. It would have been nice to know this before we got married. She played a good nympho for the first 10 years, secretly trying to get pregnant. She dropped this bombshell on me a few years a go, which was rough. I've since made peace with it.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

ConanHub said:


> She sounds extremely sexually repressed and ignorant. Religious family?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She is Jewish. Not necessarily over the top religious. I think she must of received negative messages about sex. That doesn't seem to be the cause if it. I just don't know how she went through 4 years of college and still remain a virgin.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Trickster said:


> . I just don't know how she went through 4 years of college and still remain a virgin.


Hell... how did she get through high school?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

OP, obviously I agree:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...oveling-working-overtime-sex-your-spouse.html


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

I've been married to a loving, faithful and smart LD wifee for the last 15+ years and you know what?

If I don't initiate sex, leave it to her, sex doesn't happen much at all and I do chores daily, grocery shop, bills paid early, inside and outside townhouse upgrades with contractors, clean cat litter, dishes, etc, etc, etc. None of this gets my wifee in the mood more for sex.

LD will not change much if at all no matter what you do, read and talk about. Just the way it is and get used to it.

My wifee's low sex drive has nothing to do with me and our marriage. It has to do with her being a bigger girl her entire life, very insecure, made fun of in high school and her college years. I cannot change that for her or help her. She needs to want to help herself and change on her own.

She has now lost 50 lbs, goes to the gym, new clothes, braces straightened her teeth, new hair style, and on average we have sex 2 - 3x week now but I still have to initiate because she is passive and shy about sex.

Just my 2 cents.

And I am a God fearing Christian man and HD. I could still have sex every day so my belief has nothing to do with my sex drive.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

CuddleBug said:


> LD will not change much if at all no matter what you do, read and talk about.


That seems to me a harsh truth that many people fight to accept.




CuddleBug said:


> Just the way it is and get used to it.



Some people will just never be able to get use to it though. Personally I can't even imagine being married to a low drive woman. I'd be constantly fighting resentment.



CuddleBug said:


> My wifee's low sex drive has nothing to do with me and our marriage. It has to do with her being a bigger girl her entire life, very insecure, made fun of in high school and her college years. I cannot change that for her or help her. She needs to want to help herself and change on her own.


Ugh, the power of low self esteem. I know this feeling personally, and I'm a man. One of my best friends is a 22 year old married father of one, an aspiring pastor incidentally. He's only been married for about a year and a half and I've helped him be able to get to the root of his own sex issues with wifey. She has body image issues that've had a negative impact on her drive, which have only gotten worse with pregnancy weight gain. He's a slim, decently built guy who's never dealt with major body image hang ups so he just didn't get this. But he does now and he's dealing with it by being supportive, standing by her and now becoming her workout partner. 



CuddleBug said:


> She has now lost 50 lbs, goes to the gym, new clothes, braces straightened her teeth, new hair style, and on average we have sex 2 - 3x week now but I still have to initiate because she is passive and shy about sex.


This is a good outcome. Probably about as good as it gets in this situation. As long as you don't mind being the sole initiator, and she's genuinely into it when you guys do have it, you all are having sex more than so many other married couples.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Trickster said:


> My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that.
> 
> Two days in a row? "OMG you want sex again. We just had it last night and its still morning. Can we at least wait until tonight?"
> 
> ...


Geez, sounds like my wife. Overall decent family (one sibling is a total PITA), but no CSA, nothing like that. She was married once before, and mentioned that her ex wanted sex all of time and she would just give in to him. Also bone dry, no masturbation nor fantasies, etc. Thinks her one friend is a freak because she and her husband have sex about every day or every other day. When it's date night, she'll make sure to tell me how tired she is or that she has a headache (when we were driving home Friday night, she made sure to mention that she had a headache, I'm sure to forestall any ideas that I may have had regarding sex). 

I don't bother begging for sex nor initiating, because she's said that sex is like work, and that sleep is more important than sex. Any sex that we would have will be hurry-up and finish duty sex. God forbid that I take any time away from Facebook. 

Trickster, I'd say she's asexual. If she's like mine, she can go years without sex and it won't even register with her. There's always more sleep to be had or more computer games to play.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Geez, sounds like my wife. Overall decent family (one sibling is a total PITA), but no CSA, nothing like that. She was married once before, and mentioned that her ex wanted sex all of time and she would just give in to him. Also bone dry, no masturbation nor fantasies, etc. Thinks her one friend is a freak because she and her husband have sex about every day or every other day. When it's date night, she'll make sure to tell me how tired she is or that she has a headache (when we were driving home Friday night, she made sure to mention that she had a headache, I'm sure to forestall any ideas that I may have had regarding sex).
> 
> I don't bother begging for sex nor initiating, because she's said that sex is like work, and that sleep is more important than sex. Any sex that we would have will be hurry-up and finish duty sex. God forbid that I take any time away from Facebook.
> 
> Trickster, I'd say she's asexual. If she's like mine, she can go years without sex and it won't even register with her. There's always more sleep to be had or more computer games to play.


It is funny how that works. My wife too, has been awake at 2am playing a game on her I Pad, but asleep as soon as she hits the pillow on most other nights.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Geez. I feel bad for the number of people posting in this thread that are frustrated by wives who have little to no interest in sex. If anyone in my marriage is more prone to multimedia devices taking away from quality time (not just sex) between spouses it would be me. And I try my best to not let that happen. Sure we have alone time from time to time, but generally if one of us wants to spend time together, we do it. 

Last night my wife and I spent between 1 to 2 hours watching TV together - some CBS evening news (which we almost never watch ever) and then some QVC (not my cup of tea tbh). But in both cases, we were talking and interacting the entire time. We talked about current events as the news was on and we talked about meal plans, things to try for future dinners, etc while watching QVC. While the shows themselves were not exactly stimulating, they were great intros to having a variety of conversations during the evening. It was fun.

That's the kind of stuff that I feel that helps keep us connected to each other so that intimacy is a regular activity between us. We're not always having knockout full blown porn star sex every single time, but we usually have good activity between the both of us to keep each other excited during the act. Neither of us do the "starfish sex" or "hurry up and get it over with" sex, although there are times when my wife makes love to me more because she knows it will make me happy as opposed to her actually wanting it at that time (usually right before periods). While we're not tearing it up from a pure numbers standpoint, we do hit 3 to 4 times a week regularly, week in, week out. Usually 4 times in a week more so than 3. It's not a lot vs what others have, but it's where we compromised. To add to that, once we committed to a goal for the week, my wife has gotten used to that level and in fact her libido increased to accommodate that level of intimacy. If it wasn't for the other positive things we had - and the positive changes I made in my health - we wouldn't be where we are today. For us, communication and recognized efforts that we strived to make for each other helped to put us in the place we are today.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Geez. I feel bad for the number of people posting in this thread that are frustrated by wives who have little to no interest in sex. If anyone in my marriage is more prone to multimedia devices taking away from quality time (not just sex) between spouses it would be me. And I try my best to not let that happen. Sure we have alone time from time to time, but generally if one of us wants to spend time together, we do it.
> 
> Last night my wife and I spent between 1 to 2 hours watching TV together - some CBS evening news (which we almost never watch ever) and then some QVC (not my cup of tea tbh). But in both cases, we were talking and interacting the entire time. We talked about current events as the news was on and we talked about meal plans, things to try for future dinners, etc while watching QVC. While the shows themselves were not exactly stimulating, they were great intros to having a variety of conversations during the evening. It was fun.
> 
> That's the kind of stuff that I feel that helps keep us connected to each other so that intimacy is a regular activity between us. We're not always having knockout full blown porn star sex every single time, but we usually have good activity between the both of us to keep each other excited during the act. Neither of us do the "starfish sex" or "hurry up and get it over with" sex, although there are times when my wife makes love to me more because she knows it will make me happy as opposed to her actually wanting it at that time (usually right before periods). While we're not tearing it up from a pure numbers standpoint, we do hit 3 to 4 times a week regularly, week in, week out. Usually 4 times in a week more so than 3. It's not a lot vs what others have, but it's where we compromised. To add to that, once we committed to a goal for the week, my wife has gotten used to that level and in fact her libido increased to accommodate that level of intimacy. If it wasn't for the other positive things we had - and the positive changes I made in my health - we wouldn't be where we are today. For us, communication and recognized efforts that we strived to make for each other helped to put us in the place we are today.


I enjoy your posts, you two show that it isn't "rocket science" to have a good intimate life, not just sex. I think the main ingredient that you have, that a lot of us lack, is that your wife puts the marriage #1. I'm happy someone can actually do what you're supposed to do.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> I enjoy your posts, you two show that it isn't "rocket science" to have a good intimate life, not just sex. I think the main ingredient that you have, that a lot of us lack, is that your wife puts the marriage #1. I'm happy someone can actually do what you're supposed to do.


My wife puts our marriage above all else, pretty much.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Mine played the good nympho as well. Getting naked at her place on our first date after sitting in the car making out with my hands up her dress, having sex a week later, taking lots of showers together. Now it's sex once every three years as it's just too much work. Date night never leads to sex even if she's been drinking, which is one of her new conditions for sex. Tells me that I can initiate then follows up with how her head hurts. I just give up and use my hand in the shower


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Geez, sounds like my wife. Overall decent family (one sibling is a total PITA), but no CSA, nothing like that. She was married once before, and mentioned that her ex wanted sex all of time and she would just give in to him. Also bone dry, no masturbation nor fantasies, etc. Thinks her one friend is a freak because she and her husband have sex about every day or every other day. When it's date night, she'll make sure to tell me how tired she is or that she has a headache (when we were driving home Friday night, she made sure to mention that she had a headache, I'm sure to forestall any ideas that I may have had regarding sex).
> 
> I don't bother begging for sex nor initiating, because she's said that sex is like work, and that sleep is more important than sex. Any sex that we would have will be hurry-up and finish duty sex. God forbid that I take any time away from Facebook.
> 
> Trickster, I'd say she's asexual. If she's like mine, she can go years without sex and it won't even register with her. There's always more sleep to be had or more computer games to play.


We are at four month now of going totally sexless. I think she feels relieved. All forms of affection are over as well. She doesn't seem to miss that either. 

Toward the end, (the last 3 1/2 years) we had more sex than the previously 18 years combined. She was always asexual, I just never pushed it. I was the ultimate nice guy. 

When I stopped being nice and started to initiate more sex, she didn't say no, but her attitude said no. I couldn't continue having sex like that. 

I don't know how much longer this will continue. I no longer even want sex with my wife. I no longer need it. I definetelo won't beg.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> While we're not tearing it up from a pure numbers standpoint, we do hit 3 to 4 times a week regularly, week in, week out. Usually 4 times in a week more so than 3. It's not a lot vs what others have, but it's where we compromised.


You're probably having more sex per month than most married (or single for that matter) people in the United States of America, by a healthy margin.

Don't take TAM outliers as the norm. 3-4 times per week, every week, is a damn lot of sex for the vast majority of couples. I know for a fact that you're having vastly more sex than two of my closest married friends. Oh and they're 22 and 24 years old.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon1111 said:


> All of the stuff about improving yourself is good. Nothing on this list is the typical "if only you would do laundry" or "active listening" crap.
> 
> I do question #8 though. I agree that you shouldn't be so invested that you can't handle rejection. On the other hand, you should not be in a position where your spouse is routinely rejecting you in the first place.
> 
> ...


Sorry, 
Been off the grid for awhile.
It's not about having sex with my wife per-say. It's about having GREAT sex with my wife. If I asked my wife, and I have, I could have sex every single day. I tried this and it sucked. Boring. I'm talking about making myself into someone my wife CAN'T wait to have sex with. In the past I would whine and complain and have "talks" about why she was rejecting me and how we could improve our sex life. Now, I simply get on with my life in a cool confident manner. That's what she likes. That's what turns her on.
One example. I hate socializing. HATE IT! I really have only one good friend I see maybe once a year. In the past, I would turn down social invitations. Now, I go and try to be AMOG in the group. Not because I need to, or I'm trying to impress other people. I do it because for some stupid reason, it turns my wife on. If I go to a party and become the "life" of the party, you can bet the house that I'm going to get GREAT sex that night and for several weeks following.
I am simply studying my wife to see what makes her vajaja wet for me.
She get's hot when I'm an independent, good looking, well groomed, social man of mystery. She also hates indecision in bed. If I show a hint of fear or apprehension about something on the edge sexually i.e. anal, it destroys the moment for her.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Trickster said:


> We are at four month now of going totally sexless. I think she feels relieved. All forms of affection are over as well. She doesn't seem to miss that either.
> 
> Toward the end, (the last 3 1/2 years) we had more sex than the previously 18 years combined. She was always asexual, I just never pushed it. I was the ultimate nice guy.
> 
> ...


Ouch, that sucks. I feel for you, as I'm the same way, the ultimate nice guy. We're at almost two years, and it doesn't get any easier (been married a dozen years). I get what you're saying about duty sex - I'd rather just beat off than get that. I'm different in that I still desire my wife (her attitude about other stuff has gotten a lot better in the last year), but it sucks when you have a date night, then when you get home she puts on her flannel PJ's and goes to bed. 

Again, the worst part that BurningHeart mentioned in an earlier post is when your spouse plays the nympho, or at least initiates and has sex on a regular basis with you, then decides that now that she has you, she can be LD. If you saw us early on compared to now, you'd think that she was a different woman (hell, our wedding night was great). I do realize that with kids, and getting older, the sex drive can wane. However, sex three times in four years in ridiculous, and comparing sex to work lets me know that she's totally asexual.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Again, the worst part that BurningHeart mentioned in an earlier post is when your spouse plays the nympho, or at least initiates and has sex on a regular basis with you,* then decides that now that she has you, she can be LD*. If you saw us early on compared to now, you'd think that she was a different woman (hell, our wedding night was great). I do realize that with kids, and getting older, the sex drive can wane. *However, sex three times in four years in ridiculous, and comparing sex to work lets me know that she's totally asexual.*



A person only feels comfortable doing this because they are sure that their spouse will let them do this.

That's the only reason anyone gets away with this level of fraud. You allowed it and with each passing year of sexlessness, you enable and condone it.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Trickster said:


> My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that.
> 
> Two days in a row? "OMG you want sex again. We just had it last night and its still morning. Can we at least wait until tonight?"
> 
> ...



Ditto, ditto, ditto!!


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Geez, sounds like my wife.
> 
> I don't bother begging for sex nor initiating, because she's said that sex is like work, and that sleep is more important than sex. Any sex that we would have will be hurry-up and finish duty sex. God forbid that I take any time away from Facebook.
> 
> Trickster, I'd say she's asexual. If she's like mine, she can go years without sex and it won't even register with her. There's always more sleep to be had or more computer games to play.



Same here!


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

jaquen said:


> A person only feels comfortable doing this because they are sure that their spouse will let them do this.
> 
> That's the only reason anyone gets away with this level of fraud. You allowed it and with each passing year of sexlessness, you enable and condone it.



But what if she seems to change? Do you think it would be "for real", or do you think it would feel like duty/pity sex.
I think if my wife "had a change of heart", I'd have a hard time accepting it as being real. But I've built up SO much resentment, I'd have to get over that too, and that would take a loooooong time.


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## Age (Jan 11, 2015)

I read that the female labido is connected to her emotions 



"Her Health
Women's health and sexuality with Alexandra Simotas, M.D.
Female sex drive linked to emotions
Posted on September 6, 2006 | By Alexandra Simotas	

I get requests all the time from patients (female of course) to check their hormones, because something must be wrong with them- they have a low sex drive. A lot of times, their husbands or partners tell them they have a serious problem and they need to look into it because it’s putting a strain on their relationship.

While male sex drive is easy to define — and relatively easy to restore — that’s often not the case for women. Because the female sex drive is multifactorial, the desire to make love is not only influenced by physical issues, but emotional ones as well.

Female sexual dysfunction can manifest itself in a variety of ways. The most common problems, as identified by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, fourth edition, text revision (or DSM-IV-TR), generally fall into one of four major categories: sexual pain disorders, orgasmic disorders, sexual arousal disorders, and sexual desire disorders. All significantly affect not only women’s sexuality but also their relationships and overall life satisfaction.

Some of the causes of low sex drive may be easy to figure out and treat. For instance, if you have a vaginal infection and it burns when you have sex, that’s easy to treat. But you may have vaginismus (spasm of the vagina); this is usually caused by sexual trauma in the past (which will require a lot of psychological help) and this may be a little harder to treat. Older women may have vaginal atrophy. This is when the vagina is dry and the os, wich is the opening to the vagina, is stenotic (tight and almost closed.) In this case you may need to use a dilator (commonly refered to as a vibrator) to help you open the os again before trying to have sex. Remember, men are a lot of things, but they are not your mechanical dilator. So if you are having a problem with your vaginal os, please buy a dilator. Birth control pills and antidepressants are also notorious for causing a low sex drive. And some women in menopause may need estrogen therapy.

If you have any of the problems I just mentioned, consider yourself lucky. They are treatable and easily identified. If you don’t have any identifiable cause, and you still have a low sex drive that bothers you, then this may be psychological.

Hypoactive sexual desire disorder (HSDD) is an elaborate name for low libido. The DSM-IV-TR defines HSDD as “persistently or recurrently deficient (or absent) sexual fantasies and desire for sexual activity.”

A woman who has HSDD exhibits little motivation to seek sexual stimuli and little frustration at thwarted opportunities for sexual interaction. HSDD is the most common sexual disorder in women, affecting an estimated 22 to 43 percent of the female population in this country.To receive a diagnosis of HSDD, a woman must experience significant distress or interpersonal difficulty because of her low libido. This is an important point, because if a woman doesn’t want sex but isn’t bothered by it, she is not considered diagnosable.

In the case where there is a psychological component, you need to figure out if maybe you’re depressed or anxious. Maybe you don’t feel good about your body. Maybe you’re exhausted, because you’re too busy at work and having to take care of the house and kids when you get home. Maybe your husband or partner is being abusive (more on that in a later entry) and you don’t have a desire to have sex with him.

Because there is such a large psychological factor here, it is important to remember that if you’re husband or partner starts pointing the finger at you, blaming you for your relationship problems, it only makes matters worse. No one should be having sex because they feel obligated to, it should be something you both enjoy."

http://blog.chron.com/herhealth/2006/09/female-sex-drive-linked-to-emotions/


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

jaquen said:


> You're probably having more sex per month than most married (or single for that matter) people in the United States of America, by a healthy margin.
> 
> Don't take TAM outliers as the norm. 3-4 times per week, every week, is a damn lot of sex for the vast majority of couples. I know for a fact that you're having vastly more sex than two of my closest married friends. Oh and they're 22 and 24 years old.


I thought 3 times per week was average for a couple who are 40 and 41 years old. Maybe my thinking is skewed due to the SIM forum after all.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> I thought 3 times per week was average for a couple who are 40 and 41 years old. Maybe my thinking is skewed due to the SIM forum after all.


According to Kinsey, 1 in 5 married couples in that age group are having sex 2-3 times a week. 3 being at the top end, it's even fewer. Only about one in 30 is having sex 4 or more times a week. 

Congratulations. You're above average.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Cletus said:


> According to Kinsey, 1 in 5 married couples in that age group are having sex 2-3 times a week. 3 being at the top end, it's even fewer. Only about one in 30 is having sex 4 or more times a week.
> 
> Congratulations. *You're above average.*


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

I never realized that my wife had been cloned an married to so many other guys! Been there done that.




Amplexor said:


> I've reposted this before. My original post from 07-25-2012 came from a thread with almost the same title.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





UMP said:


> Sounds hopeless.
> That is NOT my case. *I have changed myself *to become more like I was when we got married 23 years ago.
> 1. Lost 40 pounds
> 2. Stopped begging for sex
> ...





Trickster said:


> My wife was a virgin at 25. She is 47 now and has NEVER masterbated. She has never been "wet" she is bone dry. Thank god for lubricants. I've tried many. She has never had any sexual fantasies with me or anybody that she would admit to. Giving and receiving oral is dirty and something that pornstars do, not a married couple. There are just a few vanilla sexual position that are normal for a couple. Doggie style is, again, for porn stars. Sex more than three times a week is not normal and I am a sex addict for wanting sex more than that....
> 
> ....I felt lucky to have such a sweet woman with a normal family without the baggage I had.
> 
> ...





BurningHeart said:


> I would put my wife in a similar category. She's 46, never masturbated, sex only with our past spouses, thinks oral is disgusting & too "germy", missionary only, gets "wet" but not always, never had fantasies, doesn't care about receiving pleasure at all & mostly just appeases me, doesn't hate sex, but can easily live without it. Still a great woman, with a big heart & very caring. It would have been nice to know this before we got married. She played a good nympho for the first 10 years, secretly trying to get pregnant. She dropped this bombshell on me a few years a go, which was rough. I've since made peace with it.





ChargingCharlie said:


> Geez, sounds like my wife. Overall decent family (one sibling is a total PITA), but no CSA, nothing like that. She was married once before, and mentioned that her ex wanted sex all of time and she would just give in to him. Also bone dry, no masturbation nor fantasies, etc. Thinks her one friend is a freak because she and her husband have sex about every day or every other day. When it's date night, she'll make sure to tell me how tired she is or that she has a headache (when we were driving home Friday night, she made sure to mention that she had a headache, I'm sure to forestall any ideas that I may have had regarding sex).
> 
> I don't bother begging for sex nor initiating, because she's said that sex is like work, and that sleep is more important than sex. Any sex that we would have will be hurry-up and finish duty sex. God forbid that I take any time away from Facebook.
> 
> Trickster, I'd say she's asexual. If she's like mine, she can go years without sex and it won't even register with her. There's always more sleep to be had or more computer games to play.


Amazing thread. I have an LD wife. I was in a Sex Starved Marriage. My wife and I saw a top notch PHD national known sex therapist and it saved our marriage, but nearly emotionally ripped my wife's heart apart. I changed myself for the better, started making my wife feel loved and cherished, and apologized for having hurt her emotionaly by doing things I didn't realized hurt her.

The sex therapist helped us set boundaries of behavior and laid out the consequences. The sex therapist basically asked my wife what she thought would eventually happen if we no longer had sex. After a lot of avoidance and proding my wife finally said, we would probably divorce. The ST then asked me if I had ever thought of divorce. i said yes and that I had made a promise to myself that by my next birthday in about 9 months (that was about 6 years ago), I would be in a loving sexual relationship with a woman, but that I was hear to try to save this marriage and make that woman, my wife. The ST then told my wife that my wife could either let the marriage fail or save it , the power was totally he choice, but that if she choose marriage, she would have to make a change and not backslide.

After a lot of agony, my wife choose marriage. The ST helped us negotiate having sex twice a week and little rituals I do for my wife. My wife has generally been pretty good at initiating sex twice a week. I will ocasionally initiate, but we have left it up to her as it is her choice to remain married and my sexual rejection scars from her are pretty deep. She has told me she knows I have options and that other women would find me very attractive.

The stress, the low self image, the good girl, the no oral as it is just too germy/dirty, the lights out, the limited number of positions, are all my wife! 

Last week we had a dry spell and no sex for 8 days. I was getting grumpy went to bed on Sunday night about an hour after my W went to bed. Even though she has said she was exhausted, had an early work meeting the next morning, she initiated sex. I really had not expected that. 

Last night I asked her after dinner, why. She said she initiated because she wanted to remain married to me and she knew I needed it and was doing this for me. She said she loves me and appreciated all I do for her, but that she only really needs or wants sex at most once a week, but understandt I need more. She also said that from her perspective everything in our marriage is great except that she just doesn't want sex as much and she knows that is something she needs to deal with.

Yes, i agree that begging for sex is not the answer. I think that setting clear boundaries or expectations and negotiating some kind of compromise is the key. Last night I said that when origianlly asked by the ST how often I needed sex a week, I had said 3 times a week and after a few weeks the ST had us compromise on twice a week. She said that was about the only thing that kept her with me, because she like sex once a week (actually more like 3 times a month) but felt she should push herself a little as long as it was never daily.

Again, negotiated compromise with clear expectations. I have never used the divorce word since except once, when my wife asked if I had been serious about divorcing her after several months without sex. I said I had been very serious. 

Good luck folks.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


>


Hey, this ain't Lake Wobegone, pal. We're not all above average here.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> Again, negotiated compromise with clear expectations. I have never used the divorce word since except once, when my wife asked if I had been serious about divorcing her after several months without sex. I said I had been very serious.
> 
> Good luck folks.


Young at heart,
How is the quality of sex? 
I know my wife and I also tired different things including sex everyday. The problem with negotiating a compromise is, how does it effect the quality of sex? What we ended up doing was sex every 4 or 5 days. This is a bit long for me, but I needed to wait a little longer for her to build up her passion so that the sex we did have was quality sex.
I would much rather have GREAT sex once a month rather than crappy, duty sex every week.
I think the most important aspect of sex is PASSION. Without passion from BOTH parties, it's analogous to doing an oil change on your car every 3,000 miles.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Age said:


> Snip: In the case where there is a psychological component, you need to figure out if maybe you’re depressed or anxious. Maybe you don’t feel good about your body. Maybe you’re exhausted, because you’re too busy at work and having to take care of the house and kids when you get home.


My answer to this is "no SH$T!"
Life has a funny way of creating depression, anxiety, and exhaustion. Maybe if we all moved back to Eden.

This is why I INSIST on leaving our routine "life" every two months, like clockwork. I budget around $6,000.00 a year for this. I plan at least 1 month ahead. We always drive out of town an hour or so. I get a LUXURY hotel suite with hot tub, I sometimes try to negotiate for the "presidential suite", get champagne and strawberries, wine, and lots O room service. I also make reservations to a fancy restaurant. We go home the next late morning. This turns my wife into mush. It takes her completely AWAY from the daily grind and we end up having AMAZING sex and I mean AMAZING. This not only alleviates the anxiety and exhaustion, it sets up wonderful sexual memories to draw upon in between excursions.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> Life has a funny way of creating depression, anxiety, and exhaustion.


Life doesn't create depression, anxiety and exhaustion. They are byproducts of how _you_ respond to life.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Life doesn't create depression, anxiety and exhaustion. They are byproducts of how _you_ respond to life.


What's the difference? Life is the cause.
How does one respond to a severely mentally handicapped child who will always have the mind of a 5 year old till the day you die.

How does one respond knowing that one day you and your wife will most likely die before this mentally handicapped child and wonder who will take care of her?

How does one respond to a MASSIVE heart attack that nearly killed me and took 1 year to "mentally" get over, if ever?
My cardiologist says people who suffer severe heart attacks and are rushed to the emergency room and shocked when their heart stops (like me) suffer from classic PTSD symtoms for YEARS.

If you think "life" does not create depression, anxiety and exhaustion and you are able to respond to it in such a way that immediately removes said obstacles, you're a stronger man than I. Good for you!

My wife and I on the other hand have suffered, but we're still here, albeit with a few more scars, but still here and amazingly happy, if I do say so myself.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

jaquen said:


> A person only feels comfortable doing this because they are sure that their spouse will let them do this.
> 
> That's the only reason anyone gets away with this level of fraud. You allowed it and with each passing year of sexlessness, you enable and condone it.


that's what makes this behavior selfish. Because at some level the LD person knows this. The pattern of great and frequent sex while dating and then no or little sex after marriage is a no brainer. Anyone with the slightest bit of awareness or intelligence knows that this is a fraud. I get the LD part. Some people just don't have it for whatever reason.

It's the 'not trying', making excuses, manipulation to avoid sex, knowing it's a destructive seed that makes this selfish and intolerable, infuriating. don't care that they are a great mother, great father, good provider, blah, blah. They know. End of story: they know.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> What's the difference? Life is the cause.
> How does one respond to a severely mentally handicapped child who will always have the mind of a 5 year old till the day you die.
> 
> How does one respond knowing that one day you and your wife will most likely die before this mentally handicapped child and wonder who will take care of her?
> ...


Well that escalated fast. And you jumped to a lot of conclusions.

But my point still stands.

Life does not "create" depression, anxiety and exhaustion. You could run a mile and be exhausted, while for somebody else that barely gets their heart rate up. 

We don't all respond to life, the ups and downs, the same. What creates anxiety in you doesn't in me, and vice versa; some aren't prone to anxiety at all.

Those are reactions to stimuli, not stimuli themselves. Listing the challenges you've faced doesn't negate that, nor does it mean that your reactions to Life's challenges are universal reactions.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> Meanwhile . . . back on planet Earth . . . .


Sorry, I live on mars. I forgot to tell you.

It's a lot of money for me too. However, I value my wifes sanity and our sex life more than I value our house, car payment or utility bill. Why not invest accordingly?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Well that escalated fast. And you jumped to a lot of conclusions.
> 
> But my point still stands.
> 
> ...


Good luck with that.

Let's say you're having a bad day at work. There is a homeless guy that's been stalking you for a couple weeks and on this particular day he leaves his feces on your front door step. You call the police and are running up and down the steps. All of a sudden you feel this sharp pain in your chest, your left arm has shooting pains and your jaw is numb. Your first reaction is fear and shock. You limp out of the building and it's dark and raining. You pass this particular homeless guy clutching your chest and he spits on you as you walk by. You manage to get to your car and call 911 in the parking garage as you lay in a pile of sweat slowly drifting away and dying, unable to move further. The paramedics show up and ask which hospital you want to go to. You say "I want to go to such and such hospital. They respond by telling you "if you want to live, I'm taking you to this hospital." You get to the hospital and 10 people are ripping your clothes off trying to get you prepped for surgery. You are fading in and out of consciousness and finally are gone. You wake up to someone forcing oxygen into your lungs because your heart and lungs have just stopped working. You wake up in a dimly lit room feeling like you've just had a nightmare, but unfortunately this is REAL. Later that day something on the wall beeps and 5 people rush into your room saying your heart just stopped.(actually went into V-fib which is fatal, but somehow got out of it on my own) How do YOU or ANYONE, for that matter, respond to this without anxiety?


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

UMP said:


> Good luck with that.
> 
> Let's say you're having a bad day at work. There is a homeless guy that's been stalking you for a couple weeks and on this particular day he leaves his feces on your front door step. You call the police and are running up and down the steps. All of a sudden you feel this sharp pain in your chest, your left arm has shooting pains and your jaw is numb. Your first reaction is fear and shock. You limp out of the building and it's dark and raining. You pass this particular homeless guy clutching your chest and he spits on you as you walk by. You manage to get to your car and call 911 in the parking garage as you lay in a pile of sweat slowly drifting away and dying, unable to move further. The paramedics show up and ask which hospital you want to go to. You say "I want to go to such and such hospital. They respond by telling you "if you want to live, I'm taking you to this hospital." You get to the hospital and 10 people are ripping your clothes off trying to get you prepped for surgery. You are fading in and out of consciousness and finally are gone. You wake up to someone forcing oxygen into your lungs because your heart and lungs have just stopped working. How do YOU or ANYONE, for that matter, respond to this without anxiety?


So now you're mid-stream switching your argument from discussing generalized anxiety, which was the kind of anxiety discussed in Age's posts, your follow up, and my rebuttal, to situational anxiety produced by acute, physiological trauma? You don't know that there is a difference between those two types of anxiety? Or are you being obtuse just to argue?

Regardless we've derailed this thread enough. If you'd like to continue this discussion/debate, feel free to open up a new thread in the physical and mental health issues section.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

jaquen said:


> Regardless we've derailed this thread enough. If you'd like to continue this discussion/debate, feel free to open up a new thread in the physical and mental health issues section.


No thanks. I'm sure you'll do just fine.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

UMP said:


> Young at heart,
> How is the quality of sex?
> 
> ...The problem with negotiating a compromise is, how does it effect the quality of sex? ...I needed to wait a little longer for her to build up her passion so that the sex we did have was quality sex.
> I would much rather have GREAT sex once a month rather than crappy, duty sex every week.


My wife is so inhibited, that waiting a month isn't going to allow her to give me a BJ, have sex with the lights on, or do anything besides the two positions she has mastered and is comfortable with. I have waited 5 to 6 months and seen no real change in her level of passion. 

Therefore, I am in a completely different situation than you are.

I look at my glass as half full not half empty. My wife is really quite good, when she wants to be, with the two sexual positions she feels comfortable with, missionary and cowgirl. While I would like to try different things, I know what the Sex Starved Marriage althernative was and I know how much we are each others friend and partner. I also know that my wife really loves me with all her heart and pushes herself to the limits to please me.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

intheory said:


> That was a bit snarky of me. Sorry
> 
> But I was shocked a bit by the amount.
> 
> ...


The heart attack was 8 years ago. I am 52 and I feel better than when I was 40. I really do feel great.

I would not call it indulgent, I would call it a wise investment.

I honestly budget that amount as I would for a house payment. To me it's one of the most important things I spend money on. Seeing my wife soak in an elaborate hot tub in a luxury hotel suite, immersed in fine aromatic bath salts, sipping on a glass of wine, with not a care in the world, nary a distraction, while I'm raiding the mini bar and getting my wood on is priceless


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife is so inhibited, that waiting a month isn't going to allow her to give me a BJ, have sex with the lights on, or do anything besides the two positions she has mastered and is comfortable with. I have waited 5 to 6 months and seen no real change in her level of passion.
> 
> Therefore, I am in a completely different situation than you are.
> 
> I look at my glass as half full not half empty. My wife is really quite good, when she wants to be, with the two sexual positions she feels comfortable with, missionary and cowgirl. While I would like to try different things, I know what the Sex Starved Marriage althernative was and I know how much we are each others friend and partner. I also know that my wife really loves me with all her heart and pushes herself to the limits to please me.


My wife was also similar to yours in that she was only comfortable doing certain things. The question I asked myself was this : "would my wife, could my wife be more sexual with another man that was able to push all the right buttons? If Elvis walked into the room with a bottle of champagne and wooed her, would she avail HIM with more than 2 positions? I thought yes and went about becoming her Elvis (of sorts)
Now, I'm not saying that will work with your wife. I just thought it was worth trying.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UMP said:


> My wife was also similar to yours in that she was only comfortable doing certain things. The question I asked myself was this : "would my wife, could my wife be more sexual with another man that was able to push all the right buttons? If Elvis walked into the room with a bottle of champagne and wooed her, would she avail HIM with more than 2 positions? I thought yes and went about becoming her Elvis (of sorts)
> Now, I'm not saying that will work with your wife. I just thought it was worth trying.


Had Elvis walked into the room and demanded a bj from my wife, we would today be mourning his death at the hands of a crazed female instead of on the crapper.

Congratulations on overcoming your wife's barriers.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Had Elvis walked into the room and demanded a bj from my wife, we would today be mourning his death at the hands of a crazed female instead of on the crapper.
> 
> Congratulations on overcoming your wife's barriers.


Maybe not Elivs.
Maybe she would be more into a Bobby Fischer kind of guy.
Move your IQ from 150 to 180. Then she'll turn to jelly for ya


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

UMP said:


> Maybe not Elivs.
> Maybe she would be more into a Bobby Fischer kind of guy.
> Move your IQ from 150 to 180. Then she'll turn to jelly for ya


No, you were right. Elvis is closer to the mark. Young Elvis, that is. 

Some things some people are just not willing to do, and it ain't about their partner.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Cletus said:


> Some things some people are just not willing to do, and it ain't about their partner.


Regardless, I cannot resign myself to think this way.
I will keep trying till I am physically or mentally unable to.
My wife has declined anal sex for 23 years. I don't give up. She now allows and ENJOYS anal play, butt plugs and rim jobs. Out of the blue she shoved a vibrator in my anus while giving a BJ. I have NEVER, EVER, NEVER even hinted that I wanted this. It felt a bit strange, but I did not complain. I see a light at the end of this very dark and dirty tunnel


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

UMP said:


> My wife was also similar to yours in that she was only comfortable doing certain things. The question I asked myself was this : "would my wife, could my wife be more sexual with another man that was able to push all the right buttons? If Elvis walked into the room with a bottle of champagne and wooed her, would she avail HIM with more than 2 positions? I thought yes and went about becoming her Elvis (of sorts)
> Now, I'm not saying that will work with your wife. I just thought it was worth trying.


As I posted on another thread it is not me, it is her.....



> Re: A Woman's Need for Sex
> 
> ...I do many of the things on your list and my LD wife would sooner slit her wrists that give me (or even George Clooney) a BJ. I have asked, many times and even demanded years ago, but it is too gross for my wife to ever do, even though early in our marriage she promised she would. It has never happened and never will.....


Elvis, George Clooney, dear old husband, it really doesn't matter. She might dress up a little for George or Elvis, but they still wouldn't get a BJ or much of anything else. YM(with your wife)MV, but I doubt mine will.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

I would budget $6k for attorney fees if it came to Taj Mahal settings as a prerequisite to keep the relationship on track. I can understand doing it as part of an otherwise healthy marriage with no financial or emotional constraints (yea right) but in reality we all have constraints, stress, etc. Likewise 11th hour change of mind conversions... Intimacy is either you will or you won't. Otherwise you set up expectations that may be difficult to meet...


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> I would budget $6k for attorney fees if it came to Taj Mahal settings as a prerequisite to keep the relationship on track. I can understand doing it as part of an otherwise healthy marriage with no financial or emotional constraints (yea right) but in reality we all have constraints, stress, etc. Likewise 11th hour change of mind conversions... Intimacy is either you will or you won't. Otherwise you set up expectations that may be difficult to meet...


John,
I have been married 23 years, 20 of which were sh$tty sex. I studied and changed myself many different ways and drew upon every possible option I had in order to raise our sex life to new levels and also help my wife overcome her "good girl" apprehensions of sex. I am currently having the best sex of my life sans exceptions. 
It's about getting AWAY from that stress to be able to push the envelope a bit. 
It's about setting up opportunities for exceeding expectations.
When expectations are exceeded (I grant not always) and new ground is covered, you're now in a position to DRAW upon these ground breaking sexual activities that can now be used in more "normal" day to day romps.
My wife coyly declines all invitations to these extravagant rendezvous saying they are unnecessary and cost too much money. However, every time we go, they almost always exceed MY expectations and she clearly enjoys herself. 11th hour changes? Sure, I still live on planet earth and things happen. No matter. I get back up and try again.
After all these years when your wife tells you after her orgasm "how can sex be this good after 23 years?" I personally cannot put a "price tag" on hearing those words.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Agreed.

But the conditions set for such pleasure have a tendency to escalate.

Think how it would work if you were establishing rewards for your kids to get good grades. It works but establishes a bit of a transaction, preconditions.... 

At what point is the person the reason for intimacy vs. the good life? Take her to the Kentucky State Fair instead of Maui a couple times and see if her attitude changes.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

I stopped initiating awhile ago. The result, sex life became extinct. Now, as a result the low sex drive has crept my way. I go weeks without registering a single thought about. Tried masturbating last night and found that I did not care enough to get off. I am not so sure that being stoic and waiting it out is the best strategy.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

john117 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> But the conditions set for such pleasure have a tendency to escalate.
> 
> ...


It can't escalate much further. I'm at my limit already. 
We only do this 6 times a year, every two months. I can see your point, but to be honest with you, it's as much for me as it is for her. I love doing it, for myself.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

tyler1978 said:


> I stopped initiating awhile ago. The result, sex life became extinct. Now, as a result the low sex drive has crept my way. I go weeks without registering a single thought about. Tried masturbating last night and found that I did not care enough to get off. I am not so sure that being stoic and waiting it out is the best strategy.


It's not about being stoic, it's about not begging. Don't whine and complain about not getting it. That does NOT mean stop initiating. Just take it like a man when you get turned down.
Outcome independent. East to say, VERY hard to do.

"honey, let's f$ck" 
"No thanks, I'm too tired"
"No problem (as you bite into the apple), see you later, I'm going for a ride on my Harley, don't know when I'll be back"


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

UMP said:


> It's not about being stoic, it's about not begging. Don't whine and complain about not getting it. That does NOT mean stop initiating. Just take it like a man when you get turned down.
> Outcome independent. East to say, VERY hard to do.
> 
> "honey, let's f$ck"
> ...


I will not go into too much detail but I have done what others suggest on here. Wife not interested so I go do my own thing. I am not going to beg nor am I going to waste energy initiating. If she wants it, she will come my way. The result: we are currently on a 16-month sex drought. No drama either. The topic never comes up, ever. Life goes on just like it did before. It feels weird to be a man that used to have a very strong sex drive and now could not care less.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

tyler1978 said:


> I will not go into too much detail but I have done what others suggest on here. Wife not interested so I go do my own thing. I am not going to beg nor am I going to waste energy initiating. If she wants it, she will come my way. The result: we are currently on a 16-month sex drought. No drama either. The topic never comes up, ever. Life goes on just like it did before. It feels weird to be a man that used to have a very strong sex drive and now could not care less.


I got to that point too. Not the 16 month drought but the "I could not care less" part. I went to the doctor and found out that my Testosterone levels were VERY LOW. Androgel and that little blue pill took at least 20 years off of my penis.
I am 52.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

UMP said:


> It's not about being stoic, it's about not begging. Don't whine and complain about not getting it. That does NOT mean stop initiating. Just take it like a man when you get turned down.
> Outcome independent. East to say, VERY hard to do.
> 
> "honey, let's f$ck"
> ...


Best said through a quote from "Damone" from the movie "Fast Times At Ridgemont High. A classic 80s movie, with great lines. He was saying to the awkward Mark Radnor character- "You don't care, if she comes, stays, lays, or prays, no matter what, your toes are still tapping".


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

UMP said:


> I got to that point too. Not the 16 month drought but the "I could not care less" part. I went to the doctor and found out that my Testosterone levels were VERY LOW. Androgel and that little blue pill took at least 20 years off of my penis.
> I am 52.


I am 37. I have considered having my T levels checked. I have resisted because I feel great on an average day. Plenty of energy. Just went on a 18 mile hike yesterday. However, something has to be off if I do not care enough to even get myself off.

I guess what I am saying is that you should not beg but detaching completely and waiting for the LD partner to get interested is not going to work.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My testosterone levels should be in the negative scale... Mild high blood pressure, Propecia for the Einstein hair, not very athletic, yet I have incredible energy, live on 6 hours sleep a day, and can walk 10 miles or cycle 30. 

I'm 55.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

tyler1978 said:


> I am 37. I have considered having my T levels checked. I have resisted because I feel great on an average day. Plenty of energy. Just went on a 18 mile hike yesterday. However, something has to be off if I do not care enough to even get myself off.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is that you should not beg but detaching completely and waiting for the LD partner to get interested is not going to work.


While T levels are important, i think that T is recieving far too much attention/emphasis as the moment. But do go to a doctor and get a complete blood work up. If for not other reason (and tell this to the doctor) so you have a good set of medical baseline information as you get into your 40's and 50's. 

If you can do a long hike (i run 15k's and half marathons, climb mountains, backpack, and do long century bike rides at age 66) your problem may be more emotional than physical, but it doesn't hurt to explore the medical.

Since you and your W has a sex problem, may I suggest you seriously consider going to a sex therapist. They are usually expert marriage conselors who have had additional training on certain aspect of human sexuality. Find one who is focused on helping couples rebuild their marriage and their sex lives.

Good luck to you.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I am 37. I have considered having my T levels checked. I have resisted because I feel great on an average day. Plenty of energy. Just went on a 18 mile hike yesterday. However, something has to be off if I do not care enough to even get myself off.
> 
> I guess what I am saying is that you should not beg but detaching completely and waiting for the LD partner to get interested is not going to work.


Just because you're not interested, doesn't necessarily mean there is something wrong with you. Being rejected or heartbroken repeatedly, emasculated, or feeling a little resentment will all cause you to lose interest. It becomes a self defense mechanism. Since your other activity levels are strong, I seriously doubt it's a "t" problem. Very few men have low levels, it has become the latest "scapegoat" for blame.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Unless you enjoy being in a sibling type of relationship, why not have the guts to tell your spouse that you don't want to be with them anymore?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I will not go into too much detail but I have done what others suggest on here. Wife not interested so I go do my own thing. I am not going to beg nor am I going to waste energy initiating. If she wants it, she will come my way. The result: we are currently on a 16-month sex drought. No drama either. The topic never comes up, ever. Life goes on just like it did before. It feels weird to be a man that used to have a very strong sex drive and now could not care less.


My wife is something like this. I've stopped bringing up sex as she has no interest. She will mention on a rare occasion that we should have sex, but then will make sure she follows up by mentioning how bad her head hurts. Date night - on the drive home, complain how bad your headache is, or when we get home, tell me that you're really tired. 

I'm like you - if she wants it, she knows where to find me. Our result - almost two years sexless, and before that, a year and a half. IMO, there's no point in initiating with a spouse that considers sex a chore. My drive is still intact somewhat, so if I need a release, I have a hand.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

I learned that "too tired" or "headache' = $hit test. Don't fail these tests, don't give in if you are in the mood. That is part of your role as the man.
Belly ache or sore throat = keep your hands off me Mr.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> My wife is something like this. I've stopped bringing up sex as she has no interest. She will mention on a rare occasion that we should have sex, but then will make sure she follows up by mentioning how bad her head hurts. Date night - on the drive home, complain how bad your headache is, or when we get home, tell me that you're really tired.
> 
> I'm like you - if she wants it, she knows where to find me. Our result - almost two years sexless, and before that, a year and a half. IMO, there's no point in initiating with a spouse that considers sex a chore. My drive is still intact somewhat, so if I need a release, I have a hand.


You shouldn't quit initiating, because your odds of compliance are gone. We've gone 4 months, but if I would have initiated more, it wouldn't have been that long, even if it isn't "mind blowing", it is still intimacy. I couldn't go two years, that really would feel like siblings.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> You shouldn't quit initiating, because your odds of compliance are gone. We've gone 4 months, but if I would have initiated more, it wouldn't have been that long, even if it isn't "mind blowing", it is still intimacy. I couldn't go two years, that really would feel like siblings.


Point taken, but I can't get into having sex with someone that doesn't want to be there and is looking to get me to hurry up so she can clean up and go play her games. I'm not looking for mind blowing (don't think we've ever had that), but we used to have good sex. We used to shower together - if I climbed into the shower with her now, she'd freak out.


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## jaquen (Mar 1, 2012)

tyler1978 said:


> I stopped initiating awhile ago. The result, sex life became extinct. Now, as a result the low sex drive has crept my way. I go weeks without registering a single thought about. Tried masturbating last night and found that I did not care enough to get off. I am not so sure that being stoic and waiting it out is the best strategy.


Sure you can get your T levels checked, but the fact that you're a chronically rejected man could be 100% of the problem. 

Also the way my libido works, and has since at least my 20s, is that the more I get, the more I tend to want. Sexual activity feeds my libido, keeping the fires stoked high. But if I go long enough without, it calms down. 

Contrary to popular belief, human beings CAN, and do, go without sex without forever climbing the walls. The blue balls period will eventually wane if you leave your body completely alone. In the same way that if you don't consume calories for long enough, eventually your body shuts down the hunger signals. Our bodies are very adaptable in that way.

If you are interested in testing your current libido just keep going until you finish, no matter how you feel. Do so to a hot fantasy, or whatever gets you off. You might be surprised at how quickly your drive comes roaring back.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

If you insist on staying married because you feel obligated by your religious convictions, or you have small children, then why not take away the goodies you provide and she enjoys. This way the two of you can be equally miserable.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Point taken, but I can't get into having sex with someone that doesn't want to be there and is looking to get me to hurry up so she can clean up and go play her games. I'm not looking for mind blowing (don't think we've ever had that), but we used to have good sex. We used to shower together - if I climbed into the shower with her now, she'd freak out.


What the heck happened for the big turn around or did you post your entire story elsewhere and I missed it. My wife had the jets turned on for nearly a decade of our marriage, but only did so at the thought of having a child with me, we both have kids from our previous marriage. When she accepted the fact it wasn't going to happen, she lost interest as well, but she rarely turns me down if I try, it just isn't that great most of the time, mechanical, no oral, minimal foreplay etc. We've gone 4 months each of the last two years, since I quit asking, I don't know if we could go a year or two or not, but I wouldn't want to find out. This year I decided to initiate often and we've had a record breaking month of 3 times, which is astronomical for us, we barely hit one every 2. My drive has adapted to feast or famine, it doesn't matter, but the heart, not so much.


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## DesertRat1978 (Aug 27, 2013)

jaquen said:


> Sure you can get your T levels checked, but the fact that you're a chronically rejected man could be 100% of the problem.
> 
> Also the way my libido works, and has since at least my 20s, is that the more I get, the more I tend to want. Sexual activity feeds my libido, keeping the fires stoked high. But if I go long enough without, it calms down.
> 
> ...


I will try that later on today when i am alone. It just feels a bit strange to have no sexual component to my life. No thoughts, no urges, no action (obviously).


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> What the heck happened for the big turn around or did you post your entire story elsewhere and I missed it. My wife had the jets turned on for nearly a decade of our marriage, but only did so at the thought of having a child with me, we both have kids from our previous marriage. When she accepted the fact it wasn't going to happen, she lost interest as well, but she rarely turns me down if I try, it just isn't that great most of the time, mechanical, no oral, minimal foreplay etc. We've gone 4 months each of the last two years, since I quit asking, I don't know if we could go a year or two or not, but I wouldn't want to find out. This year I decided to initiate often and we've had a record breaking month of 3 times, which is astronomical for us, we barely hit one every 2. My drive has adapted to feast or famine, it doesn't matter, but the heart, not so much.


Good question - not quite sure except she has stated that she did have a higher drive when she was around 40 (she's late 40's now). The kids are certainly part of the issue (don't have anyone to dump the kids off overnight, as all grandparents are out of town and too old to chase two three-year olds around), but a lot of it is that she just doesn't have a drive. As you mentioned, if I initiated, she would do it, but it would be like you stated it is with your spouse - mechanical and let's-get-it-over. I don't want that. I got spoiled by how it was early on (and with the prior GF), where they were into it. I don't want to just have sex with someone just laying there. She also has conditions (needs to have a few drinks to loosen up, kids need to be sound asleep, etc). 

Tonight we have another date night, so we'll see if anything happens. Guessing not, but who knows?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Good question - not quite sure except she has stated that she did have a higher drive when she was around 40 (she's late 40's now). The kids are certainly part of the issue (don't have anyone to dump the kids off overnight, as all grandparents are out of town and too old to chase two three-year olds around), but a lot of it is that she just doesn't have a drive. As you mentioned, if I initiated, she would do it, but it would be like you stated it is with your spouse - mechanical and let's-get-it-over. I don't want that. I got spoiled by how it was early on (and with the prior GF), where they were into it. I don't want to just have sex with someone just laying there. She also has conditions (needs to have a few drinks to loosen up, kids need to be sound asleep, etc).
> 
> Tonight we have another date night, so we'll see if anything happens. Guessing not, but who knows?


All you can do is to try. When you stop trying, it's game over. I know I am loved, so I guess that is what still brings me some closeness during the act. Does she seem happy with you on date night or just another "let's get this over with"? I haven't had a date night in over a year. Our kids are grown, but our daughter has a daughter and she is my wife's whole life, we just get the leftovers.
Good luck tonight!!!


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> All you can do is to try. When you stop trying, it's game over. I know I am loved, so I guess that is what still brings me some closeness during the act. Does she seem happy with you on date night or just another "let's get this over with"? I haven't had a date night in over a year. Our kids are grown, but our daughter has a daughter and she is my wife's whole life, we just get the leftovers.
> Good luck tonight!!!


She does love me, so I think it's just a case of very LD. She does seem happy on date night, and this morning when she called she asked if I would take her on a date, so let's hope. 

I can certainly sympathize with you with a grandchild - your wife is now totally in grandma mode and to hell with anything else.

EDIT - she decided to invite a friend to dinner with us. Made a comment about how she's always tired due to kids, etc. No sex, obviously. Supposed to go out with another couple this week, but that's on a work night, so there will be no sex.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Young at Heart said:


> My wife is so inhibited, that waiting a month isn't going to allow her to give me a BJ, have sex with the lights on, or do *anything besides the two positions she has mastered and is comfortable with.*




I really don't get these women who are only comfortable with one or two positions (I'm a 49 year old woman). I just don't get it. I honestly can't comprehend their thought processes and how they arrive at the conclusion that there's only one or two "acceptable" ways to have sex.

No offense to the men who are with them, but my partner wouldn't put up with this for 5 minutes.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

happy as a clam said:


> I really don't get these women who are only comfortable with one or two positions (I'm a 49 year old woman). I just don't get it. I honestly can't comprehend their thought processes and how they arrive at the conclusion that there's only one or two "acceptable" ways to have sex.
> 
> No offense to the men who are with them, but my partner wouldn't put up with this for 5 minutes.


My husband wouldn't put up with it either.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I really don't get these women who are only comfortable with one or two positions (I'm a 49 year old woman). I just don't get it. I honestly can't comprehend their thought processes and how they arrive at the conclusion that there's only one or two "acceptable" ways to have sex.
> 
> No offense to the men who are with them, but my partner wouldn't put up with this for 5 minutes.


Regarding your partner, would his objections be more along the lines that he would desire to do over 3 positions within 1 sexual encounter, or would he be OK with only doing 1 or 2 positions during a sexual encounter provided that you were open to doing other positions the next few times?


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> I really don't get these women who are only comfortable with one or two positions (I'm a 49 year old woman). I just don't get it. I honestly can't comprehend their thought processes and how they arrive at the conclusion that there's only one or two "acceptable" ways to have sex.
> 
> No offense to the men who are with them, but my partner wouldn't put up with this for 5 minutes.


Also depends on the woman. My last GF loved sex, but we only did it missionary and cowgirl (she did enthusiastically give BJ's, and would be on top of me and would titty-**** me cowgirl, if that makes sense). However, it was her enthusiasm that was hot - she wanted sex and let me know it. She did state that her ex called her "Missionary Queen", but that didn't bother me - the fact was that she turned me on sexually. Listening to her moan with pleasure while I was on top was awesome. 

My wife, on the other hand, on the very rare occasions that we have sex, is more of a let's-get-this-done-so-I-can-clean-up-and-go-to-bed type. She could be agreeable to every position in the world, but her attitude about sex sucks - considers it work and a chore.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Regarding your partner, would his objections be more along the lines that he would desire to do over 3 positions within 1 sexual encounter, or would he be OK with only doing 1 or 2 positions during a sexual encounter provided that you were open to doing other positions the next few times?


Gosh Plan... I've never thought of it in those terms (how many positions in a given encounter?) and I think it's safe to say he hasn't either.

Honestly, we just do whatever is feeling good at the moment. Not a lot of thought. He'll flip me around or shift positions on a whim, and likewise I will do the same! Or we'll stick with just one thing if it's feeling good for both of us. There's really no negotiating it, certainly no one is "counting" position changes. 

And nothing is really off limits. So I guess that makes it easier...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

happy as a clam said:


> Gosh Plan... I've never thought of it in those terms (how many positions in a given encounter?) and I think it's safe to say he hasn't either.
> 
> Honestly, we just do whatever is feeling good at the moment. Not a lot of thought. He'll flip me around or shift positions on a whim, and likewise I will do the same! There's really no negotiating it, certainly no one is "counting" position changes.
> 
> And nothing is really off limits. So I guess that makes it easier...


Reason I ask is that it seems as I have gotten older our "style" has changed. With my last GF plus the first part of my current relationship with the wife, I used to want a lot of position changes and it was fun for everyone. Now, I think it's normally 2-3 position changes at most within a given encounter, but will focus on other positions the next go around. 

Also noticed though that sex is being streamlined as we get older. Ultimately, the reason why I started this thread - http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-marriage/228058-would-you-consider-vanilla-sex-life.html. But that is for a discussion at another time and probably not directly related to this topic.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

My wife is also a "missionary queen". That is our only position and I agree with ChargingCharlie, the attitude is what makes it, not the position. IF she shows excitement, I'm fine with whatever. She has a tilted uterus & I've had 3 spine surgeries so we couldn't get too wild anyway, but variety and passion would be a lot nicer.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> My wife is also a "missionary queen". That is our only position and I agree with ChargingCharlie, the attitude is what makes it, not the position. IF she shows excitement, I'm fine with whatever. She has a tilted uterus & I've had 3 spine surgeries so we couldn't get too wild anyway, but variety and passion would be a lot nicer.


Yep, it's quality that counts. Attitude is so sexy - she was about average looking and had a body that could be described as curvy, but she was tuned into her sexuality. Single mom with three kids (IIRC, ages about 3 to 9), yet was never too tired. If it was that time of month, we found other ways to pleasure each other. When I need a release, she's the one I think about. 

Wife spends her time complaining about her headaches and her exhaustion, and sex just requires too much work. Easier to just get out the laptop and play games while kids are sleeping (last weekend, after kids went down for a nap, made a suggestion that we should take advantage of the kids being down - she looked at me like I was nuts and said that her head hurt).


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## doobie (Apr 15, 2014)

We don't even discuss sex any more, it's as if it doesn't exist  . If the subject comes up in a film, book, tv programme, etc., it's studiously avoided by my husband. Sex really has become the "elephant in the room". Our conversations are about everything but sex.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Yep, it's quality that counts. Attitude is so sexy - she was about average looking and had a body that could be described as curvy, but she was tuned into her sexuality. Single mom with three kids (IIRC, ages about 3 to 9), yet was never too tired. If it was that time of month, we found other ways to pleasure each other. When I need a release, she's the one I think about.
> 
> Wife spends her time complaining about her headaches and her exhaustion, and sex just requires too much work. Easier to just get out the laptop and play games while kids are sleeping (last weekend, after kids went down for a nap, made a suggestion that we should take advantage of the kids being down - she looked at me like I was nuts and said that her head hurt).


That would be very hard to not be resentful about. To be perfectly fine, until the sex subject arises and then get a headache, right on the spot. I don't think my ex or my wife have ever used that lame excuse, if they aren't in the mood, they just say they don't feel like it, or it's too late, my wife loves to get a lot of sleep at night, so I hear that one the most. If you really had a headache, staring at a computer screen would definitely irritate it more, at least it does mine.
Do you ever call her out on this, when it happens? Ask why she only gets headaches when you want to be intimate with her, what would she say?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

doobie said:


> We don't even discuss sex any more, it's as if it doesn't exist  . If the subject comes up in a film, book, tv programme, etc., it's studiously avoided by my husband. Sex really has become the "elephant in the room". Our conversations are about everything but sex.


I don't bring it up much, I used to, to try and get her to engage in a conversation about it, but it never worked and it just made me resentful. I can usually tell now, by the course of the day, her attitude and actions, if it's worth pursuing that night or not.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> That would be very hard to not be resentful about. To be perfectly fine, until the sex subject arises and then get a headache, right on the spot. I don't think my ex or my wife have ever used that lame excuse, if they aren't in the mood, they just say they don't feel like it, or it's too late, my wife loves to get a lot of sleep at night, so I hear that one the most. If you really had a headache, staring at a computer screen would definitely irritate it more, at least it does mine.
> Do you ever call her out on this, when it happens? Ask why she only gets headaches when you want to be intimate with her, what would she say?


No, there's no point as it would just lead to more problems. She does complain of headaches a lot, mainly due to drinking nothing but diet Pepsi and getting stressed out a lot. She's also lazy(if I have the kids and fed them dinner, I get everything cleaned up when we're done eating, while she'll leave a pile of dirty dishes in the sink for a day). She'd rather just sit on the couch playing on her laptop. Sex requires too much effort in her mind, then you have to clean up when you're finished. She could spend that time on Facebook


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> No, there's no point as it would just lead to more problems. She does complain of headaches a lot, mainly due to drinking nothing but diet Pepsi and getting stressed out a lot. She's also lazy(if I have the kids and fed them dinner, I get everything cleaned up when we're done eating, while she'll leave a pile of dirty dishes in the sink for a day). She'd rather just sit on the couch playing on her laptop. Sex requires too much effort in her mind, then you have to clean up when you're finished. She could spend that time on Facebook


Now I'm beginning to wonder how you can still be married to her? If she's lazy, doesn't care about feeling better and the only thing that matters is the computer, I don't get it?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

BurningHeart said:


> Now I'm beginning to wonder how you can still be married to her? If she's lazy, doesn't care about feeling better and the only thing that matters is the computer, I don't get it?



Six figures are quite an aphrodisiac on their own  speaking personally...


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

john117 said:


> Six figures are quite an aphrodisiac on their own  speaking personally...


Exactly - she does make decent money in a public job, but she hates said job. I make more being self-employed, and she's grown comfortable. 

The other thing is that she's trying to be SuperMom. We tried like hell to have kids, and now that we have them, all of her energies go toward them. She tells everyone what a great dad I am (and she is a good mom), and that's appreciated (I take them out when I can to the park or other places, partly for us and partly to give Mommy a break). This leaves no energy for sex (thus her comment last night about how she's always exhausted). 

Would I have married her knowing what I know now? No way (and I don't mean just the lack of sex) - but as Churchill said, hindsight is 20/20. I'm not willing to leave with two little kids in the house, as I want to maintain my influence, and that's easier to do with me around. If I need a release, there's always the shower, my hand, and thoughts of the horny ex.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ChargingCharlie said:


> Exactly - she does make decent money in a public job, but she hates said job. I make more being self-employed, and she's grown comfortable.
> 
> The other thing is that she's trying to be SuperMom. We tried like hell to have kids, and now that we have them, all of her energies go toward them. She tells everyone what a great dad I am (and she is a good mom), and that's appreciated (I take them out when I can to the park or other places, partly for us and partly to give Mommy a break). This leaves no energy for sex (thus her comment last night about how she's always exhausted).
> 
> Would I have married her knowing what I know now? No way (and I don't mean just the lack of sex) - but as Churchill said, hindsight is 20/20. I'm not willing to leave with two little kids in the house, as I want to maintain my influence, and that's easier to do with me around. If I need a release, there's always the shower, my hand, and thoughts of the horny ex.


Good points. I stay for a lot of the same reasons, financial wellness and she's a sweet, caring person that I enjoy spending time.
Even though I love her, I wouldn't have married her if I would have known either. Sex and communication are two big things to have to skimp by on.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I've said this plenty of times on this forum but here goes again:

As a grown adult with a functioning brain, if you can't muster up the energy to have sex with the partner you're supposed to be having sex with, your marriage is already dead.

Begging, pleading, threatening, even talking about it in a civil manner will not fix anything. THe one not giving the sex will inevitably fall back in to a pattern of doing what they want to do, which is not you.

At that point your only hope of happiness is sex with somebody who actually wants to have sex with you.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> Why didn't you marry the ex-girlfriend? Sounds like you two had sexual chemistry galore.


Apologies for delay in replying - been dealing with the plague rushing through our house. 

Reason is that while she was great sexually, she was also a nut job, which I figured out toward the end. Secondly, she lived 100 miles away, and neither of us was willing to move away from where we lived. It was a fun fling, but nothing more. 

Lastly, just for ***ts and giggles, I looked her up on FB - she looks terrible - put on a ton of weight (she was curvy before but not fat) and just is not appealing to look at. Superficial, yes, but it's the truth.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Lila said:


> LOL, I guess that just goes to show that there are more things that go into a successful relationship than hot sex.
> 
> Had you married the ex, you'd probably still be on TAM but complaining that your wife is an overweight nut job. Count your blessings and appreciate your wife, even if she is LD.


Exactly - got all of the sex that I could want back then with a woman who turned me on sexually, but I'm sure glad I ended it when I did.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

UMP said:


> I agree with everything you said except the last part. I don't want duty sex either. To me it's even WORSE than begging for it. You say you're "still connecting" but it's cloaked in duty, which in my opinion turns a positive into a big negative.
> I'm not a car that's needs it's oil changed every 3,000 miles


If people are going to make sex a "duty" of marriage, they can't expect anything more than "duty" sex. As long as there's that underlying 'current', it will always be a 'duty'...just like cleaning the house is a 'duty'...and taking care of the kids is a 'duty'...and bringing your husband his slippers is a 'duty'. And bringing your wife a glass of lemonade is a 'duty'.

Some people talk themselves into believing that their spouse only loves them out of "duty", and seek out love freely given elsewhere. Hence, they have affairs. After all, the affair partner doesn't HAVE to give them sex...or anything else for that matter. Seems more 'real'. 

Why everything becomes a 'duty'--including LOVING your spouse-- once married, is beyond me.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Vega said:


> If people are going to make sex a "duty" of marriage, they can't expect anything more than "duty" sex. As long as there's that underlying 'current', it will always be a 'duty'...just like cleaning the house is a 'duty'...and taking care of the kids is a 'duty'...and bringing your husband his slippers is a 'duty'. And bringing your wife a glass of lemonade is a 'duty'.
> 
> Some people talk themselves into believing that their spouse only loves them out of "duty", and seek out love freely given elsewhere. Hence, they have affairs. After all, the affair partner doesn't HAVE to give them sex...or anything else for that matter. Seems more 'real'.
> 
> Why everything becomes a 'duty'--including LOVING your spouse-- once married, is beyond me.


I guess that it became a duty when it got boring for her. 
I figured it was my predictable routine and lack of skill combined with being an overweight grumpy assshole.
I corrected that and now she's "into" it.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Hmm. If marriage creates expectations that one partner can unilaterally and persistently ignore at their whim, I want nothing to do with marriage. IMO, as soon as any vow or promise is no longer kept, the whole contract is invalid, and either needs renegotiating or needs to be dissolved legally. Until then, neither party can be held to their original promises. If one partner avoids sex, the other can avoid fidelity. The legal shell may be intact, but the content is void.


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