# Tragedy, Shame, and Guilt



## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I cheated on my wife who loved me and I broke her heart and spirit. I ended up eventually getting the other woman pregnant and I chose to be with her and our baby. My late wife never deserved any of the awful things that I did to her. I hurt the one person who loved me unconditionally. And I will have to live with that everyday for the rest of my life. 

I am not sure what I actually expect by posting my story. Feel free to tear into me. You can not possibly cause me anymore pain than I already feel. No one can understand knowing that you are the sole reason that the person you loved is no longer in this world. I'm sorry if this is too personal or anything like that. I will probably end up posting this in parts.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

_"My late wife"_

_"the sole reason that the person you loved is no longer in this world."_

you mean she committed suicide?


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*How the affair started*

My wife and I started dating in 2002. We were both coming out of tough relationships and we fell madly into love. We were perfect complements to one another. We were both active in our faith which is how we met. Our time dating was amazing and I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her. In June of 2003 I proposed to her and we married on March 9th, 2004. We both wanted to have a family more than anything and we started to try immediately. Due to some health issues my late wife conceiving was incredibly difficult. For the next 5 years we tried every single thing you can possibly imagine and nothing stuck. It might be weird or rare or odd as a guy but I have always wanted children and children of my own. I started to build up some resentment at my wife for an issue she couldn't control. It wasn't fair and it was completely wrong. At the same time I was being bitter about the infertility situation my wife fell into a terrible depression. It was undeniably related to the situation. My wife does not have a jealous bone in her body but it killed her every time she would see one of her friends having a baby while we were alone. This all was going down in the beginning of 2009. Our marriage was in a rough place and we started to grow apart. Her depression was consuming her and instead of supporting her like a husband should I began to do anything that would get me out of the house. I started working more hours, working out more, and going out more. I never thought I would be the type of person to cheat. I grew up in a strong religious environment and I loved my wife more than anything in the world. But I did. 

I would go to our 24 hour gym at somewhat odd hours. Late nights and early mornings. The gym would be desolate and there were only a handful of people there. I began to run with a young woman I met there and we struck up a nice friendship. At the time she was everything my wife was not. Our friendship eventually grew beyond just the midnight runs and we traded numbers and started to text frequently. I began to confide in her about my marriage and she was always supportive of me. Within a couple months of our friendship blooming I began to develop real feelings for her. I didn't act on my feelings and we had a close friendship that soon became the most important things in one another's lives. I don't remember exact dates but by this point it was around August of 2009. I was having a conversation outside the gym with my then friend and I was telling her I had to get back to my wife. I hugged her and she hugged me and for whatever reason I decided to kiss her. She let me and kissed me back. We ended up making out like highschoolers outside my car for a while. We finally parted ways and she sent me a text message when I was driving home. All it said was I love you. I replied back I love you.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

This has been a little harder than I expected to put into words so it is going to take some time to finish writing it all. Like I said earlier nothing that is said to me can make me feel worse than I do. I love my daughter and it is terrible irony that her existence is a direct result of my cowardice. But it is what it is. I would never punish her because of my feelings towards my late wife. I can handle any comments that are made so there is no need to bash JNJ. He is only expressing his opinion and honestly he did make a valid point.

*The Affair Grows*

After the kiss things just began to move extremely quickly. Within three of four days of kissing I went over to her apartment to just watch a movie and hang out. We ended up having sex that night. I accept full responsibility for what I did. I was her [her being my girlfriend] first real relationship and I was the grown married man. She was 20 at the start of the affair. I was 32 and married for five years. If anyone is to blame in this situation it is me. So I don't want to seem like I am transferring responsibility. I am not. 

Once we slept together it became a regular thing. I would spend time with her when I was allegedly going to the gym. I told my wife I started to play golf as an excuse to get away on weekends. I was spending all of my free time and attention on my girlfriend and I was ignoring my wife who needed me so badly. This stage of our affair continued from August to around December of 2009. I remember the holiday season ended up being brutal for us. My wife was starting to feel better and wanted to start looking at potentially adopting. I hated being away from my girlfriend for so long and was essentially dealing with withdrawal of not being with her. Around this time my wife first became suspicious of my behavior. The first thing that ended up alerting her was that she found a gift from her in my car. It was just a dress shirt that was wrapped and there was a short note attached. Somehow the note didn't say my name on it but it wasn't written by me either. I told my wife some convoluted story about some old client giving all of us at work gifts. It wasn't a great lie but she trusted me so she believed me. My wife started to get irritated about my long absences and we began to argue about it. I so wish I could go back in time and just spend time with her. That is all she wanted. Instead I threw it in her face and told her she was being controlling and paranoid. 

My wife and I were in the midst of this fight when I got a call from my girlfriend. She was scared and told me that she was fairly sure she was pregnant. I told my wife I needed to go out and clear my mind and left in the middle of our fight. I drove over to CVS and bought two pregnancy tests and drove to her apartment. Then I waited. After a couple minutes she came out and showed me the two lines. TO BE CONTINUED


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

Story teller?


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

cheatinghubby said:


> Story teller?


I wish. I so desperately wish. This is my life. What I am writing is the complete truth about what I have done. If you don't believe me you are free to not follow the posts. I am writing this more for myself to just relive everything and have it down somewhere so I can remember what I have done.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

To be continued ...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Telling My Wife*

I have never felt more conflicted then I did at that moment. I still think about it to this day. I don't know what I should have done. She walked out of the bathroom and sat on my lap and showed me the test and just put her head down on my shoulder and said sorry. I told her it was OK and we would figure it out. We sat down and just started to weigh our options. You have to know me to understand this but abortion was never an option. It would have been easy and my wife wouldn't have suffered and this drama could have stopped but at the expense of my own child. And my issues with my wife's infertility made this almost seem like a miracle. I told Emily that I would support her and I would be there for our baby. She said she was scared and would get an abortion if I wanted. I told her No. Then she started to talk about how it would be hard and how she couldn't do it alone. I made her a promise then that I would leave my wife and we would do it together. 

My decision to leave my wife was made then but I had no idea of how to do it. I was a complete and total coward. I wanted someway to do it without hurting her and without having to deal with the consequences of my infidelity. I delayed making a decision for as long as I could. I found out about the pregnancy in late December and I only talked to my wife about wanting a divorce in early February. And this wasn't even my decision. Emily was becoming annoyed with me not doing what I promised and started to ask me if I was serious about our baby (a fair question). I emailed my wife while I was at work that we should make some time tonight to talk about something serious. When I got home I went to the den and sat down and tried to plan out exactly what I was going to say. It was stupid to think I could script my responses but I thought I could. 

We had a quiet dinner and I told my wife that we should have the talk I mentioned. She said OK and we moved into the living room. I told her I'm not happy and I don't think I can do this anymore. I tried to tell her I know I haven't been a good husband and that she deserves better. She said that things haven't been good but we could work through them. She told me she hasn't been a good wife either and we could fix our marriage if we both tried. And then she almost off handily asked me if there was anyone else. I tried to deflect the question and change the subject. Wrong move. She started to scream at me saying she knew it. I tried to half-heatedly deny it and finally I broke down and told her there was someone else. She started to cry and ask me who she was. I told her she didn't know her and she told me to at least be honest. I told her who she was wasn't important and all that mattered was that our marriage was over. I told her it was all my fault and I was wrong to do what I did but it happened. I shouldn't have hurt her and I wanted her to be happy. We had been talking for a couple hours now and it was getting later at night. I told my wife I can understand her being angry at me and that I didn't expect to stay here after what I did. I packed a bag and told her I was going to stay somewhere else for a little bit. I don't know why she said this to this day but she told me I didn't have to leave. Instead of taking her olive branch I said I had to go. And instead of apologizing to my wife and trying to make it right I drove over to my girlfriend's apartment and told her that the marriage was over.


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## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

The child is innocent but I dont know how you and your girlfriend can live together and watch one another every day and be happy knowing what the both of you had done...

I could never be able to live with her knowing what my actions with her have caused and she would be a daily reminder...


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> there is no need to bash JNJ. He is only expressing his opinion and honestly he did make a valid point.


JNJ is well respected, I have had the opportunity to read things he has commented on and have respected his opinions. 

When certain buttons are pushed. Many people say things in the heat of the moment which are not reflective of who they are. I know I have. He is not being bashed, that statement was. 

Whether it was posted in anger or mistakenly formated in a way which was misinterpreted, I took exception to it. 



JNJ said:


> the child, and its new life, is the cause for your wife who you supposedly loved's, death.


No. This statement does not carry any validity. 

If you disagree... Well... I just dont know what to say other than please seek professional help.

Your pushing buttons, with purpose.

If your intention is putting yourself in the firing line to get attacked to satisfy something twisted up and broken in you... I'm not biting, and I hope no one else is either. 



WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I am writing this more for myself to just relive everything and have it down somewhere so I can remember what I have done.


No. If that were the case, you have microsoft word or a pen and paper. Your not doing this to simply document it for yourself. You have an agenda.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

Pit-of-my-stomach said:


> No. This statement does not carry any validity.
> 
> If you disagree... Well... I just dont know what to say other than please seek professional help.


I don't agree that my child is the cause of my wife's death. I love my daughter more than you can imagine. My late wife is responsible for her own actions and my daughter is not the cause of it. I am. 

I don't have an agenda. I only posted my experiences here because I have been lurking for sometime and I have read numerous accounts where the cheating party is never remorseful. I regret what I did everyday and I wanted to show people that even the person who "wins" doesn't win in these situations. Because on paper I did come out OK. I have a committed partner who loves me and I have a beautiful toddler that I adore. But I still have to live with pain that no one can imagine. 

I am not sure what I am getting out of this. I suppose I do on some level want to be lashed at verbally. I certainly know what I did was wrong and evil. I am in counseling (if anyone cares) and it does help so I recommend it. This hasn't been easy to write and I'm not sure I'll continue. We'll see. Like I said earlier no one is forcing anyone to read or respond to my thread. If you do respond I appreciate it and the remarks have given me a lot to think of. 

To answer BugzBunny I try to compartmentalize and not think about the pain. But it is incredibly difficult at times. And I am not really happy. I am happy when I am playing with my daughter or spending time with my partner but when I think about the pain and suffering I am responsible for it is enormously difficult. 

I am still up in the air about continuing these posts so if anyone is curious about what happened and I don't finish I am sorry. And if I have offended or angered anyone with my posts I am sorry.


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## Almostrecovered (Jul 14, 2011)

pit- did I have an agenda for posting my story in the same fashion?

I did give my reasons for posting it at the get go, which perhaps is what WHIB should have done


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I think you just need to get it out. Finish your story. There is a reason confession is important in religion and society - it helps us take ownership of our actions and allows for redemption.


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## SweetAndSour (Feb 25, 2012)

WhoHaveIbecome,

I had a similar style of telling my story as yours, multiple, long posts. I left TAM before I finish my story because after responses I received, it lost its main meaning for me. I was heavily venting. I felt like posting to your thread, though your story is very different then mine, your purpose and response you get seem similar to my experience here. 

Like me, you are not in hurry. It is too late to turn things around as somehow undoing the mistakes and reaching to a better relationship with your late wife. 

Saying goes "if it doesn't kill me, it makes me stronger". For some, it kills (no pun). Me, my wife our marriage is not stronger. All are dead in a way. It is time to live with it and suffer, for us.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Almostrecovered said:


> pit- did I have an agenda for posting my story in the same fashion?


That's a pretty curious and monumental leap in comparisons. 

Ok, you think he deserves the same benefit of the doubt.

Fine, take him at _his word_. His motivation is simply to document this for himself. The location he chose and it's demographics were just random.

Carry on... I won't interupt again.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I regret what I did everyday and I wanted to show people that *even the person who "wins" *doesn't win in these situations. *Because on paper I did come out OK.* *I have a committed partner *






WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I am still up in the air about continuing these posts so if anyone is curious about what happened and I don't finish I am sorry. And if I have offended or angered anyone with my posts I am sorry.


You know what's funny? All of these long drawn out posts and not a single one has addressed his late wife really and her death. Just the story of his cheating. And then a little post here and there about "You don't have to read this......to be continued."

Okay.



It's like a bad Lifetime movie with a lot of commercials.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm going to assume you are sincere in trying purge these demons. Troll gets bandied about a lot as a way to shut down threads. I think it's better to assume there is a hurting, damaged person looking for help then some opportunist trying to manufacture some drama.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> You know what's funny? All of these long drawn out posts and not a single one has addressed his late wife really and her death. Just the story of his cheating. And then a little post here and there about "You don't have to read this......to be continued."
> 
> Okay.
> 
> ...


I agree, 

this is a really sad story, not sure if I can read any more of it.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I'm still waiting to hear how your wife died. How you cheated means nothing to me - you're just another one of 'those guys'.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

I agree with Rock. This is most likely a troll, I mean he even has his story divided into chapters. This is totally bogus.


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

give the poor man a chance before we all call troll, geez


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

OP, have you finished your story?


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I haven't had much time to sit down and write. I just wanted to address some of the issues others have pointed out. To be totally honest I don't think I will finish telling what happened here. Its hard to do and taxing on my psyche and for whatever reason people don't believe me. I don't know why anyone would think I am a troll. What exactly do I gain by lying to complete strangers. What has happened has happened. I have not said a single lie in any one of my posts. Whether you want to believe me or not is up to you but I have been brutally honest. I think this desperate desire to call troll on people shuts down what could be a healthy forum. Why would people lie about their most personal demons to people they don't know. This forum has a tendency to scare away posters. If you don't like me I don't blame you at all. I don't like me. But please for the love of god stop accusing me of lying. I am not. 

*I agree with Rock. This is most likely a troll, I mean he even has his story divided into chapters. This is totally bogus.*

I haven't even written everything down yet. How can I have things divided into chapters? Its ****ing painful to relive this. I only write a little bit at a time because I mentally cannot sit down and write for hours about the worst experiences of my life. Maybe I should have written everything down and posted it in one megapost. I saw a couple different people use a similar format so I went with it. 

*You know what's funny? All of these long drawn out posts and not a single one has addressed his late wife really and her death. Just the story of his cheating. And then a little post here and there about "You don't have to read this......to be continued."*

I have been writing things down from Day 1 to the end. My wife committed suicide in December of 2010. I was going to address that when I got to that point. I feel like I have talked about my wife in great detail. How we met. How we were when we first got married. What else do you want to know? 

*I am not trying to be insensitive but this story comes off as braggish and attention seeking. *

I'm sorry that you feel this way. My life is not some fantasy. I have little to brag about. I certainly would not boast that my cowardice caused the death of a loved one. I am so ashamed of my actions. 

*I think you just need to get it out. Finish your story. There is a reason confession is important in religion and society - it helps us take ownership of our actions and allows for redemption.*

I will finish it but I won't post it. I thought it would be helpful to hear some outside thoughts but the response has been mixed. It has been good for me to put things down to word. I certainly expected a negative response. I am a scumbag. I never expected to be embraced. I just never thought people would accuse me of lying.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

Please keep in mind the audience on a thread for infidelity. Elvis's song title "Suspicious Minds" might be an acurate description. 

I often think "troll" when reading new threads. If over time I'm swayed to believe a poster is genuine, then I post my advice. Ahhhh, the joys of being a betrayed spouse. . . doubt first, believe later.

People seeking attention have posted fake stories on the infidelity thread in the past, many times in fact, so many of the posters here are skittish and leary of being burned again.


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

I wished to have y here in my country for all the stuff y described in your posts. If y r not a troll and y r actually confessing the truth out of guilt or to somehow "punish" yourself, then i can assure y r eligible for a very fine treatment for the rest of your life for what y did to this poor woman. And y r still doing to her memory.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I hope you'll reconsider. Most of the people on this forum are sincerely here to help others.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

There was a similar story posted earlier. The wife had an affair. The husband went into a deep depression from which he never recovered from. After some time, he went to stay in a hotel where he offed himself. Can someone find that link ?


I am not understanding the attacks here. This guy is venting. I am not sure why he has to be a troll or why he should have an agenda? There were no troll either. There was a thread earlier too where the poster was scared off before he could tell the complete thing(SweetandSour I think). If I wanted to make fun of TAM and its over paranoid BS posters, this thread will be a good example.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

It is the melodramatic title and tone of this thread that bothers me. The OP does not seem sincere, and I wonder what he hopes to accomplish by posting this. He has not asked for advice, so I wonder what his purpose is. If he had started out with the fact of his wife's suicide, I would have felt some sympathy, but he withheld this as if he was trying to build dramatic tension and manipulate his audience.


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

And be sure that the same did to her. I am quite sure that he made her feel quilty for her inability to have children. He made himself a victim that he lived in a drama coused be his poor wife. And then he went after a girl actually (only 20yrs old) and that's all. If he was in love with his wife he could be there for help and courage. Nothing else. And if he wanted children y know there are a lot of ways to find a solution via adoption.


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

Warlock - I think this is one the things that is lame about TAM. Lot's of paranoia, judgement, people calling others trolls because of how they communicate. It's really quite a cruel board. There's a difference between tough love, and facing the truth then being abused and insulted. It's a shame.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

Like I said earlier I am not going to finish writing here but I wanted to respond to the continued accusations. They are infuriating. I am just going to say what I have said from the first post. This is my life. I am not lying. I am not exaggerating. I am just recounting the events that led to where I am today. I have been 100% honest in everything I have said. My only purpose in writing about my experiences was to give me a written account of how I became what I am today. So I would never forget what I did and what I did to a person who I loved. Instead my thread got derailed by baseless accusations. It is unfortunate. I am sorry if I wasted anyone's time. 

*I hope you'll reconsider. Most of the people on this forum are sincerely here to help others.*

Part of me does realize this. Its essentially 5 people that are disputing the validity of my posts. What do they need to believe me? Wedding pictures? An Obituary? There is nothing I can do to prove I am being honest to these detractors. If I continued writing it would be the same 5-6 users picking apart my posts for evidence of my "trolling". Its not worthy of my time nor anyone else's time. 

*I am quite sure that he made her feel quilty for her inability to have children. He made himself a victim that he lived in a drama coused be his poor wife.*

I admitted this much. I said I resented her for her infertility. It was completely wrong and horrible. I'm not sure if you think I am a troll because you cannot read or did not read my posts. Look at the second post I made. I said exactly this. 

*People seeking attention have posted fake stories on the infidelity thread in the past, many times in fact, so many of the posters here are skittish and leary of being burned again.*

That seems preposterous and presumptuous. I can't understand why people would come lie to folks they do not know. You don't think they had a serious issue and were looking for help? 

*Then a little post here and there about "You don't have to read this......to be continued." Okay. It's like a bad Lifetime movie with a lot of commercials.*

I was upfront that it was going to take me time to recount everything. I have a job. I have a young daughter. I cannot sit and write all day. I'm sorry the "commercials" bothered you but I just don't have the time necessary to finish writing everything at once. And its hard to go back and relive things. I found it easier to do in parts. I don't give a damn about suspense. 

*It is the melodramatic title and tone of this thread that bothers me. The OP does not seem sincere, and I wonder what he hopes to accomplish by posting this. He has not asked for advice, so I wonder what his purpose is. If he had started out with the fact of his wife's suicide, I would have felt some sympathy, but he withheld this as if he was trying to build dramatic tension and manipulate his audience.*

Again I spent no time formulating the title. I didn't want to use a title that was insensitive to the pain I have caused. I don't know what would have been a better title. People are paying way more attention than necessarily to minor formatting things. I said my wife committed suicide in the very first post I made. Nothing was held back. I don't think you fully understand how horrible I feel about this. I am in a lot of ways no better than a murderer. I hate to think about it and you expect me to start off writing about it? I was going to address it and try to be as honest as I could have when I reached that point. 

Thank You and Good Bye,

WHIB


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

90 % of the titles and user names in this forum are dramatic. That doesn't make them any less. Picking up mistakes in semantics and his words is an overkill. If the intention is pointing out mistakes and misappropriating intentions because he is a cheater, everyone can do that.

Because he is a cheater does not make his every breath and action an act of manipulation. What does he achieve by manipulating us ?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> That seems preposterous and presumptuous. I can't understand why people would come lie to folks they do not know. You don't think they had a serious issue and were looking for help?


I agree with most of your points except this. There were quite a few realistic heart breaking stories that eventually were outed as trolls.I can link you up to them if you want to.


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> What does he achieve by manipulating us ?


Attention. Some people crave it.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Attention. Some people crave it.*

Yes. I am desperate for attention from "lovesherman". I don't know who any of you are. I have absolutely nothing to gain from this. If I wanted attention I could go play with my daughter who gives me her full attention and adores me. In fact that is what I am going to do now. If you think people are trolling you for attention you are just narcissistic. 

*I agree with most of your points except this. There were quite a few realistic heart breaking stories that eventually were outed as trolls.I can link you up to them if you want to.*

If you want you can send me the links. But just because one person may have trolled in the past does not make it fair to call troll on every other person who posts. Its ridiculous. To be honest it doesn't really matter . I am done here. 

I don't think many people were interested to here about my horrible story anyways. I'm a little relieved to not have to write the rest because it is dark and painful. I thought this posting would be therapeutic and helpful but it hasn't been. All I have are people doubting me when I am being brutally honest. I am trying to accept responsibility for the consequences of my actions. I could have written things so I was painted in a more positive light. I did not. Oh well. I am spending too much time getting irritated by the accusations of busybodies like "lovesherman".


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

haters gonna hate... I wasn't commenting to let you finish the story. Let them win if you choose to. People call out on trolls if they think the story is suspicious. We don't want to fooled yet again. 

Regarding the troll threads, I think they were deleted. Couldn't find them

Wiait, found this one : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...ex-bf-war-veteran-im-so-lost-please-help.html


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I have no idea if you are a troll or not. I don't care about that. What disturbs me is that your wife took her own life over the pain she endured from not being able to have children and having a cheating husband. May she be at peace now.


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## Tap1214 (Aug 14, 2011)

I, for one who wanted to hear his full story. I thought this forum was for everyone to come and share, without being judged. I guess I was wrong!


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Tap1214 said:


> I, for one who wanted to hear his full story. I thought this forum was for everyone to come and share, without being judged. I guess I was wrong!


Tap, you weren't wrong about people coming here and telling their stories. Where you were wrong was to believe that other posters can't or won't express THEIR opinions, as well.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> 90 % of the titles and user names in this forum are dramatic. That doesn't make them any less. Picking up mistakes in semantics and his words is an overkill. If the intention is pointing out mistakes and misappropriating intentions because he is a cheater, everyone can do that.
> 
> Because he is a cheater does not make his every breath and action an act of manipulation. What does he achieve by manipulating us ?


Cheaters words are always ripped apart and over analyzed on this forum. People are very suspicious of what cheaters say, and seem to group them together with serial killers....almost.

The more you try to explain, the more they pick at each word.

But hey I got used to it....


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

Lone Star said:


> I have no idea if you are a troll or not. I don't care about that. What disturbs me is that your wife took her own life over the pain she endured from not being able to have children and having a cheating husband. May she be at peace now.


His wife did not commit suicide because of what he did to her, she made that choice to end her life, she obviously had other issues in her life.

Don't we talk about choices on this forum???? We are all responsible for the decisions we make.

Did my husband make me cheat?? my decision only.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

_"seem to group them together with serial killers....almost."_

because they _are_ killers(in a sense)....they are killers of hearts and love.

just because they didn't physically kill someone, doesn't mean they didn't murder a person's soul.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

cledus_snow said:


> _"seem to group them together with serial killers....almost."_
> 
> because they _are_ killers....they are killers of hearts and love.
> 
> just because they didn't physically kill someone, doesn't mean they didn't murder a person's soul.


I agree cheaters "kill" their spouses hearts, I'll never dispute that, but what bothers me is blaming him for her choice to end her life. We already know he feels responsible for her actions, do we need to make him feel worse?

Ok, I'm done.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

_"We already know he feels responsible for her actions, do we need to make him feel worse?"_

that's not what i meant with my post.


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## gpa (Feb 22, 2012)

working_together said:


> I agree cheaters "kill" their spouses hearts, I'll never dispute that, but what bothers me is blaming him for her choice to end her life. We already know he feels responsible for her actions, do we need to make him feel worse?
> 
> Ok, I'm done.


Really? So this was just a choice? Like buying red or a blue car?
One day she got up and made a ... choice to end her life?
What more simple than that eh?
And now the poor cheater feels devastated and comes here to find answers and relieve to his pain and justification of his acts.
I think now that cheaters are very devastated persons due to the bad choices of the BSs.


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## FieryHairedLady (Mar 24, 2011)

I have been following this thread on my phone. I am logged in and posting now. 

To the OP, your story is horrible. No doubt. 

Do you have any plans to marry your new partner?

How long after you split did your wife commit suicide? How did she do it?

Ignore the troll comments.

I am sure there are many of us who would like to hear the end of your story.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Did you AP know about the difficulties getting pregant w/your wife? Did you AP get pregnant on purpose?


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

working_together said:


> His wife did not commit suicide because of what he did to her, she made that choice to end her life, she obviously had other issues in her life.
> 
> Don't we talk about choices on this forum???? We are all responsible for the decisions we make.
> 
> Did my husband make me cheat?? my decision only.


Yes, it was his wife's choice to end her life, but to say that her husband's actions did not affect her choice is unreasonable. Some people are just not strong enough to endure the pain. We don't know what kind of pain this woman went through because she could not have children. Most of us here have a very good idea of the pain she went through knowing that her husband betrayed her by cheating. 
I'm not saying that her choice was right, but to say her husband's actions had nothing to do with her decision is not logical in my opinion. I'm not trying to make this man feel any worse than he says he does, but if his wife was already having problems with dealing with the fact she could not have children how do the you think adding on a cheating husband helped?


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

_"We don't know what kind of pain this woman went through because she could not have children."_

correct me if i'm wrong, but i've often heard it said that a woman considers herself to be "womanly," by being able to concieve. obviously, this poor woman felt inadequate when held to these standards. add to that her husband's infidelity- being passed over for a fertile woman- and you have the makings a tragic and meaningless existence.

i'm just saying the situation could've been handled better.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

cledus_snow said:


> _"seem to group them together with serial killers....almost."_
> 
> because they _are_ killers(in a sense)....they are killers of hearts and love.
> 
> just because they didn't physically kill someone, doesn't mean they didn't murder a person's soul.


I understand what you mean, but comparing them to serial killers is kind of an overkill IMO


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I agree Cledus. It sounds like this woman has been dealing with depression for a long time due to not being able to have children. Having her husband cheat on her apparently was just more than she could take. It's sad that she made the choice she did but some people fall into such a mental state that they see no other way out of the pain.


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## cledus_snow (Feb 19, 2012)

_"I understand what you mean, but comparing them to serial killers is kind of an overkill IMO"_

i meant it as the end result.... the death of a person's(BS) being. these people(WS) had a hand in it's demise. there is no arguing that.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I think I have been a little too sensitive too the accusations of others. To anyone following my posts I will try to finish writing everything and post the rest here throughout the week. I am going to try to just ignore the haters if you will and finish writing. I need to do this. It would be easier to just quit halfway but I have done the easy thing too many times now. Regardless of how difficult this is I will try to finish and I will do my best to ignore the critics. I understand hating me for what I did. I just cannot understand doubting me. 

I'm sorry if my slow pace is frustrating or for poor writing quality. If it helps with proof I will try to go through my email and find emails to/from my wife from during the time and use them. I don't want to mislead anyone. I'm not sure what I can do to prove my sincerity but I am open to suggestions. I haven't gotten any further in recounting what happened so the earliest I will post again is tomorrow. I am just going to respond to the questions that other users posted and sign out. 

*Do you have any plans to marry your new partner?*

I want to wait on marrying again. I am committed to her and I would never cheat again. Our relationship is good but it is plagued with the pain we both have caused. I need to handle my emotions regarding the past before I am ready to marry again. I don't think I'm ready now. 

*How long after you split did your wife commit suicide? How did she do it?
*

We talked about divorce in February of 2010. I moved out around then but I kept in constant contact with my late wife and we tried to fix things for a little bit. She found out about the pregnancy in July. She was hurt and furious about it and her health took a turn for the worse. There were a couple prior attempts but the one that took was in late December of 2010. Prescription Overdose. The baby was around 3 months at the time. 

*Did you AP know about the difficulties getting pregant w/your wife? Did you AP get pregnant on purpose?*

Yes. I told her everything. She became my closest friend and still is. I don't think she got pregnant on purpose. The pregnancy is my fault. I had sex with her. I came in her. Its kind of hard to believe because most OW/OM seem kind of lecherous but she was really innocent. I do not think she got pregnant on purpose. She offered to get an abortion so its not like she was trying to trap me. 

*And now the poor cheater feels devastated and comes here to find answers and relieve to his pain and justification of his acts.*

There is no justification for what I did. None. I have never tried to make it seem like my wife deserved what happened to her. I am trying to explain why I thought it was OK to step outside of my marriage. My reasons were wrong. I know that now. I wish I could change what I did. Every. Single. Day. But I cannot.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Did you AP know about the difficulties getting pregant w/your wife? Did you AP get pregnant on purpose?

Yes. I told her everything. She became my closest friend and still is. I don't think she got pregnant on purpose. The pregnancy is my fault. I had sex with her. I came in her. Its kind of hard to believe because most OW/OM seem kind of lecherous but she was really innocent. I do not think she got pregnant on purpose. She offered to get an abortion so its not like she was trying to trap me. 

Too innocent to use birth control, but not too innocent to have sex with another woman's H? Offering is not doing. Being a woman, I think you are pretty naive. She absolutely got pg on purpose, other wise she would have ended that pregnacy without involving you in the process. You reacted to it as she thought you would.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

I feel so bad for your late wife. She was dealing with so much. It's a shame that she couldn't see that you were not worth ending her life, but it is clear that her depression and your betrayal was more than she could handle. What a terrible situation.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Too innocent to use birth control, but not too innocent to have sex with another woman's H? Offering is not doing. Being a woman, I think you are pretty naive. She absolutely got pg on purpose, other wise she would have ended that pregnacy without involving you in the process. You reacted to it as she thought you would.*

I can go into a little more detail if it matters. Obviously she is not totally innocent. What I was trying to say was it was mostly my fault. What we were doing was essentially her first real relationship. She didn't have the experience that I had or that the average person had. She was still fairly young when all of this happened. She did know I was married and that didn't stop anything from happening on her end so she isn't perfect. But I am the person who should have known better. 

Maybe I am being naive. What does it matter if she got pregnant on purpose or on accident? If I wasn't cheating it wouldn't have happened so I have to accept responsibility for my actions. She is the mother of my daughter and my partner. I can't afford to hold onto resentment. I am trying to learn from my mistakes and be forgiving, understanding, and loving. 

I think it would have been cruel to end the pregnancy. Considering my personal experiences with struggling to have a child with my wife terminating was never really an option. I wish I could go back and do things so my wife was still alive and my daughter is still born. I don't ever wish that she quietly got an abortion though. I wouldn't have my daughter who is a bundle of joy and the most important person in my life. It is so difficult though because my daughter came into this world basically right as my wife left. Its tough for me to go back and see what I could have done differently. It was a horrible situation. If I did things differently my daughter wouldn't be here today. But my wife likely would. Which would I rather have? I can't say to be honest. I don't even want to try to answer that.


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

If you could have done things differently? Really? Your wife took her life because she couldn't handle you cheating on her and having a child with another woman. I guess you feel bad about that but in the next breath you seem to say that it was a choice, your wife or your daughter with your gf. The bottom line is, you cheated on your wife, you did not use any protection with a young woman you knew was not experienced and it was not your wife's fault that she was not able to have children. I'm sure you love your daughter but your destroyed your wife's life. To ask yourself the question of which you would rather have is just pathetic in my opinion. I'm curious as to what relationship you have with your wife's family after her death?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

One of my clients told his step mom to fuc* off one morning as he was leaving for school years ago. He was a young teenager. She killed herself in his bedroom a few hours later. He still carries that guilt today on top of his combat injuries and PTSD from tours in Iraq.

Not easy to get over.

The frank reality is that you more than likely pushed your wife over the edge. This cannot be changed. She is dead. What you can do is work on yourself, the guilt, etc. If I was your counselor I would not puss* foot around the idea that what you did and said to her did not have a large factor in her killing herself. I would focus on how to get over it. 

It would be easy to bash you but many of my clients have done similar things. In the past some of my clients killed folks. I am dealing with a mob hit man who killed a woman in cold blood and got off after six years for a technicality and turning state evidence. The man deserves the electric chair but the reality of matter is that he is a free man and a combat veteran. He** I even told him that. I asked him if he is worried about the other guys coming after him for being a rat? He said no. He said something about all of them working it out while they were in prison.

You will deal with the consequences of this the rest of your life. You can't fix this one. You can only work on yourself.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*The frank reality is that you more than likely pushed your wife over the edge. This cannot be changed. She is dead. *

Believe me I understand this. I am in counseling and I am trying to deal with the guilt that I have. There is no doubt in my mind if I was not a horrible, awful spouse my wife would still be alive today. I broke her. First by neglecting her while we were married. Then by cheating. Then by lying about the cheating. Then with the pregnancy. And finally by leaving her all alone to be with another woman and having the baby she so desperately wanted. I have to live with that. I know we like to say people are responsible for their actions and many people have told me platitudes like its not my fault. But I know it is. I always will. 

*To ask yourself the question of which you would rather have is just pathetic in my opinion. I'm curious as to what relationship you have with your wife's family after her death?*

I'm sorry. It probably is pathetic. I think about it frequently though. Everytime I see something that reminds me of her or use it hits me. I need to put what happened behind me but I can't. Its even worse because I can't really grieve because its my fault she isn't here. 

My relationship with her family is what you would expect. Absolutely horrible. I don't talk to them much anymore but I know they hate me and they blame me for what happened.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

It must be difficult for your gf to be with you, a depressed man with so much baggage. 

At her age, she should be carefree and exploring. How foolish she is to choose such a dark course. She will realize that in time when she experiences more of life and matures.

Are you concerned about how you will measure up against fresh young men her age who face life with limitless possibilities?

She is unlikely to continue to look up to you. She may see you as a weak and a failure with the consequences of past lies, and deception still to come. 

She may smarten up at some point and take her child and bail to more promising relationships.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

There has been a lot of chatter about non-germane topics and I have gotten off track of continuing my story. This post is a followup to #12 (on page 1). 

*Immediate Aftermath *

After leaving my home I drove over to my girlfriends. I remember not feeling sad or guilty and just relieved. I was free of what I thought at the time were burdens. Emily (my girlfriend) was happy I had finally ended things with my wife. I more or less moved straight out of my marital home to Emily's apartment. My wife started to send me texts and emails that were forgiving and heartbreaking. The first night I left I had something like 45 emails from her. All saying how could you do this to me. I love you. Please come back. We can fix this. I forgive you. I don't even understand how I was able to read them and ignore her. 

I didn't talk to my wife in person for two days after the "I'm leaving speech". I eventually had to go back home to get some clothes and other stuff. She was waiting for me there and she looked awful. I think this was the first time I really noticed what I had done. It didn't change my behavior but I realized what I had done to her. She was not the happy, sweet, care-free woman that I married and promised to be faithful to. She looked like a widow. 

Of all the things I have done in this sordid saga the worst is probably this. I continued to lie to her and I gave her false hope. I think if I was brutally honest on Day 1 things could have been different. Instead I tried to hide things from her even though I told her I wanted a divorce. I didn't want her to know about the seriousness of my relationship with the girlfriend and I did not want her to know about the pregnancy for obvious reasons. And I realize I still wanted my wife to be mine while I was ****ing another woman. When I went back home to retrieve my belongings we sat down and talked for a long time. I held her while she cried and I apologized half-heartedly. She asked me to reconsider things and that we shouldn't throw away our marriage over a fling. She didn't know about the pregnancy so she thought it was something non-serious. I promised her I would call her and we would talk about what to do and the future of our marriage. 

What ended up happening was after that is she called my mother who she was close to and told her about what I had done. My mom called me and told me that my wife was at her home and that I needed to come and talk to her. This was I think 5 days after I moved out. I was furious that she told my mother and embarrassed. When we were there we had another long discussion and decided to try to start over. This was completely deceitful on my part. I don't even know what I was thinking. I can't hide a baby. We talked for a long time about our marriage and what was going wrong and I told her I love her and I kissed her. She kissed me back and she thought we were moving forward. 

For the sake of brevity what happened next was we tried for about a month and a half to make things work. She was doing everything possible to be the best wife in the world. I was still staying with my girlfriend which infuriated my wife but she looked past it. I led her on horribly. I had sex with my wife 3 times while I was living with my girlfriend and after I told her we were over. My wife was searching through my things and figured out who my girlfriend was. Our attempt at reconciliation ended when my wife told me to decide between her and Emily and I told her I wasn't sure. She lost it and berated me. I deserved every ounce of her anger but it still stung. I told her some really hurtful things and said we shouldn't even try to fix things anymore. 

We argued through email and through family for the next two weeks. Finally I hired an attorney and filed for divorce. This puts us in late March. Prior to this I was still trying to balance both relationships. My wife was furious at me but she still liked talking to me (if that makes any sense). I was advised to keep contact with my wife strictly business during the divorce. I essentially went no-contact with her and ignored her and committed myself fully to my girlfriend. The next couple months were quiet. My wife hired an attorney and we were fighting out the divorce terms. My wife went home to visit her parents and spent most of the summer there (she was a teacher so she had the summer's more or less off). I hadn't heard from my wife in almost a month when I got a call from her at 2 AM. I don't even know why I answered it but I assumed because of the time it was an emergency. My wife was stifling back tears and yelling at me "YOU GOT HER PREGNANT".


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*It must be difficult for your gf to be with you, a depressed man with so much baggage. At her age, she should be carefree and exploring. How foolish she is to choose such a dark course. She will realize that in time when she experiences more of life and matures. Are you concerned about how you will measure up against fresh young men her age who face life with limitless possibilities? She is unlikely to continue to look up to you. She may see you as a weak and a failure with the consequences of past lies, and deception still to come. She may smarten up at some point and take her child and bail to more promising relationships.*

First of all its our child. And I am a really great parent. Everyone who knows us says that and I am deeply involved in our daughter's life. So it would be evil for her to just take our daughter away from me. 

I'm dark and depressive when talking about this topic specifically. Understandably so. But I am not like this every moment of everyday. I can be a fun, supportive partner. I take care of our family and I make sure we have everything we need. So I would dispute that I am a horrible partner. 

I'm not 50 either. I'm 34. While that isn't young I am hardly some senior citizen. I understand that there may be some visceral anger towards me just realize I am a complicated person like any human. I've done horrible things. That doesn't make me a horrible person. I think my girlfriend is happy with me and we are happy with our daughter. It isn't perfect like any relationship but it could be worse.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You don't seem to be looking for advice, only attention so I'll give you what you want...

Bottom line is: you are a selfish cheater who lied too and without real regret or hesitation betrayed you wife.

You started an affair with a woman with horrible morals who did not and still does not have a problem being the cause of another person pain, and ending of her marriage.

Together you created a child who is innocent, but who has two parents who have blood on their hands. They talk a good game, but neither one is compassionate enough to actually accept the guilt of deceit and betrayal they are both respoondible for.

Well if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you, so your future looks to be full of karma.

The only innocents here are your dead wife and the kid. 

I m praying that you are a troll, because the real world is a nastier place for having you and your home wreaking gf in it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Lone Star (Feb 2, 2012)

Really? You did horrible things but that doesn't make you a horrible person? I can't read anymore of your story.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> *
> 
> First of all its our child. And I am a really great parent. Everyone who knows us says that and I am deeply involved in our daughter's life. So it would be evil for her to just take our daughter away from me. *


*

That's an interesting turn of phrase, evil, no? 

Don't you think you are fooling yourself to think that a relationship that started in deception, with a 20 yp girl who is still growing, who is not adverse to eefing another woman's husband and getting pregnant to get him away, is stable.

Be realistic and prepare yourself. You are likely to end up having to share custody of your daughter with your gf and a stepfather or even a series of the same. 

Your are right, 34 is not old but 22 is very young. She will change more in 10 yrs than she will in the rest of her adult life. You are way past that stage, you will watch her change but to her, you will be the same. 

Evil is in the eye of the beholder. If she decides she can make a better deal with another man why should she stop because you perceive losing full time with your daughter as evil? 


You did not get involved with an angel, although you seem to have convinced yourself that you have. You think that a 20 yr girl going after a 32 yo married man, who she knew wanted children, having unprotected sex and getting pregnant is her first time around the block? She played you like a 2 stringed fiddle. She knew she could get you out of the marriage with a child. 

If she wants someone else, she will ditch you and go after him. She used your desperation for a child to manipulate you. She has no sympathy for your desperate position. 

No, when she wants to go she will. Your pain at losing what you waited years to get, will not be a consideration. It is like what you did to your wife.*


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I realize it is borderline insensitive talk about and defend my partner considering the end result of our actions but I need to correct some things. I haven't talked about her much because I wanted to focus on my late wife but since other users have brought her into the conversation I will respond. I want to preface this by saying I am not defending my cheating. It was wrong and inexcusable. 

*Well if they'll cheat with you, they'll cheat on you, so your future looks to be full of karma*

I'm not going to convince anyone of this but my girlfriend would never cheat on me. And I would never cheat on another person after what I've been through. And just to clarify she never cheated on anyone when we did what we did. She was single at the time. 

*Together you created a child who is innocent, but who has two parents who have blood on their hands. They talk a good game, but neither one is compassionate enough to actually accept the guilt of deceit and betrayal they are both responsible for.*

What can I do now? Nothing I do can bring her back. Believe me I am trying to accept blame and responsibility for my actions. 

*Be realistic and prepare yourself. You are likely to end up having to share custody of your daughter with your gf and a stepfather or even a series of the same. *

Catherine you are really getting under my skin. So if that is your goal congratulations. My situation with my late wife is a terrible tragedy. But I would not do anything similar in this relationship because of our daughter. I am committed to having the best home we can for her. And my girlfriend is committed to this too. We are parents first and we want only the best for our daughter. Taking her away from father and exposing her to a series of strange men is not the best for our daughter. Its disrespectful to even suggest that she would do that. 

*Evil is in the eye of the beholder. If she decides she can make a better deal with another man why should she stop because you perceive losing full time with your daughter as evil? 
*

Because she loves me. I know her and she would never do anything like that to me. Whether you believe me or not is up to you. But she is not some cold hearted *****. There is a reason why I gave up everything for her. 

*You did not get involved with an angel, although you seem to have convinced yourself that you have. *

She is the mother of my child. I am not going to come here and slam her. She has her flaws. We all do. I know she is a fundamentally good woman. I've asked her before why it didn't bother her enough to stop when she found out I was married. She says that we loved one another and that overcomes any labels. I don't know if she is right or not but neither of us planned this. 

*No, when she wants to go she will. Your pain at losing what you waited years to get, will not be a consideration. It is like what you did to your wife.*

Its not like that. I don't know what kind of villain you think she is. Emily is loyal to a fault, an amazing mother, and a loving affectionate partner. She would never betray me and try to take our daughter away from me. Maybe that would be the fair, eye for an eye thing and its your prerogative to wish for it but it won't happen. I know its easier to imagine her as some wench but she isn't that at all. 

*You think that a 20 yr girl going after a 32 yo married man, who she knew wanted children, having unprotected sex and getting pregnant is her first time around the block? She played you like a 2 stringed fiddle. She knew she could get you out of the marriage with a child. *

I've said this again and again. I wasn't trapped. I pursued. She wasn't going after me. It just happened and I didn't stop it. It was quite literally her first time around the block so I assure you she wasn't playing me. If there is a bad guy in this story its me. Not my girlfriend. 

I both made a terrible mistake that indirectly led to the death of another human being. I have to live with that. I will never forget that. I am doing everything in my power to make sure I am never again responsible for anything like this. I am trying to change and become a better person.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I bet your wife thought you would never cheat. She would have bet her life that you would not run after a 20yo virgin to impregnate and leave her like a dirty rag. 

And look at what fate did to her? He husband who knew her best of all, knew her pain, knew her emotionally fragile state could not be honest with her and ask for a divorce to run after a 20 yo virgin. 

Yet you are so sure fate will be kinder to you and saint Emily will never cheat and leave you? She is only 22 yo. If she hasn't had a lot of experience she may want it in the future.

It happens with young women who get tied down to men so much older. You have interrupted her growth she will pick it back up at some point. 

There is a big difference between a 34 yp man and a 24 yo man. Even bigger when she is 30 and you are 42, a 30 yo man might be enticing after 10 years with you if it last that long. 

This reads like a romance novel and I thought men didn't read that drivel. 

Listen, this is not a "they lived happily ever after" fairytale. 

This relationship will obey all of the natural laws of relationships, you don't get any specials because you have a sad story. Your 2nd hoped for LTR success rate about 30%; started in deception low rate of success; LTR and children stated before aged 26 , high rate of failure; cheating among woman in her age group within the first 3 yrs of relationship, about 40%; age gap more that 7 yrs higher rate of failure.

If I were betting this would be the superfecta .


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*I bet your wife thought you would never cheat. She would have bet her life that you would not run after a 20yo virgin to impregnate and leave her like a dirty rag.* 

Fair enough. I was so wrong to do what I did. I know that now. 

*Yet you are so sure fate will be kinder to you and saint Emily will never cheat and leave you? She is only 22 yo. If she hasn't had a lot of experience she may want it in the future.*

Why would she give up her family for experience? I think you are really projecting onto Emily. Plenty of people marry without having a prolific sexual history and are happy. People don't just get a divorce that quickly with kids involved. My first marriage was unique in the sense that the infertility and the extra-marital pregnancy complicated the marriage. 

*It happens with young women who get tied down to men so much older. You have interrupted her growth she will pick it back up at some point. *

There is an age gap. I'm not denying that but its not as if I am 30 years older than her. Men generally date/marry women younger than them. Believe it or not my girlfriend is happy with our daughter and our situation. I never forced her to do anything. 

You can love someone in real life. Love is not relegated to romance novels. I've had as hard a life as anyone and I still believe in love. Catherine I am sorry you come from such a damaged place that you cannot fathom I would love the mother of my child. 

*This relationship will obey all of the natural laws of relationships, you don't get any specials because you have a sad story. Your 2nd hoped for LTR success rate about 30%; started in deception low rate of success; LTR and children stated before aged 26 , high rate of failure; cheating among woman in her age group within the first 3 yrs of relationship, about 40%; age gap more that 7 yrs higher rate of failure.*

Wow. You are a cynic's cynic. I can only try to do the right thing now and be a supportive partner now. What happens will happen. I am confident that my S.O. will not cheat on me. I trust her and that is what matters. Not the percentages.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> After leaving my home I drove over to my girlfriends. I remember not feeling sad or guilty and just relieved. I was free of what I thought at the time were burdens. Emily (my girlfriend) was happy I had finally ended things with my wife. I more or less moved straight out of my marital home to Emily's apartment. My wife started to send me texts and emails that were forgiving and heartbreaking. The first night I left I had something like 45 emails from her. All saying how could you do this to me. I love you. Please come back. We can fix this. I forgive you. I don't even understand how I was able to read them and ignore her.


I was gutted after I read this. I stopped reading. I will continue tomorrow.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

*I'm not going to convince anyone of this but my girlfriend would never cheat on me. And I would never cheat on another person after what I've been through. And just to clarify she never cheated on anyone when we did what we did. She was single at the time. *


Be very careful using the word never. I thought my husband would never cheat on me and he actually never thought he'd be a cheater. We were wrong. Do not trust blindly. I'm not saying this to be mean spirited about your gf. I'm saying this because I truly feel that people who think infidelity is not a possibility in their relationship are being naive. When people do not accept infidelity as possibility, they leave their relationship vulnerable to to it.

*I've asked her before why it didn't bother her enough to stop when she found out I was married. She says that we loved one another and that overcomes any labels. I don't know if she is right or not but neither of us planned this. *

This type of thought process might be something for you two to work on moving forward. To believe that being in love overcomes labels sounds like something from a wayward spouse's mouth. At some point in a relationship, commitment should become the priority. Love changes over time and that new "in love" feeling wears off. Your gf is young and you've said you're her first relationship. You both should get some counseling to learn what it takes for a relationship to be long lasting. MCs work on couples to get something deeper and long lasting with commitment being at the center. Love is a choice. You may not have planned to have an affair, but you did choose it.

Side note, your gf didn't cheat on another guy, but because she was okay being with a married man, many will still think of her as a "cheater". As the OW she did not consider your marriage vows sacred and was a willing participant in breaking them.


*Its not like that. I don't know what kind of villain you think she is. Emily is loyal to a fault, an amazing mother, and a loving affectionate partner. She would never betray me and try to take our daughter away from me. Maybe that would be the fair, eye for an eye thing and its your prerogative to wish for it but it won't happen. I know its easier to imagine her as some wench but she isn't that at all. *

I doubt anyone sees your gf as a wench, but just someone who is still very young and has a lot of growing up yet to do. My goodness, the poor girl is still practically a child herself. At some point in her life, she may wish she had her early 20s back to be more carefree. Motherhood is hard, very rewarding, but a long journey of self discovery and growth. I married when I was 26 and looking back I wonder why the he11 I was in such a hurry! Yes your gf may be amazing now, but she _will_ be a different person in 10 years. Maybe for the better, but maybe not. Don't let yourself be unprepared for how much people change in a relationship, especially with someone so young.


*I both made a terrible mistake that indirectly led to the death of another human being. I have to live with that. I will never forget that. I am doing everything in my power to make sure I am never again responsible for anything like this. I am trying to change and become a better person.*

I hope you realize my comments are given with the hope you can learn from your previous bad choices and gain insight.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> *Too innocent to use birth control, but not too innocent to have sex with another woman's H? Offering is not doing. Being a woman, I think you are pretty naive. She absolutely got pg on purpose, other wise she would have ended that pregnacy without involving you in the process. You reacted to it as she thought you would.*
> 
> I can go into a little more detail if it matters. Obviously she is not totally innocent. What I was trying to say was it was mostly my fault. What we were doing was essentially her first real relationship. She didn't have the experience that I had or that the average person had. She was still fairly young when all of this happened. She did know I was married and that didn't stop anything from happening on her end so she isn't perfect. But I am the person who should have known better.
> 
> ...


You know the first time a married man came on to me I was 18? I knew better and so did your little "innocent". Yes you could have done a lot better. What you did and are still doing is rewarding behavior in this woman that helped to destroy the real innocent person in this mess, your wife. As I said I am a woman and I know how they think, and this person knew exactly what she was doing. How you can remain with her in light of what has happened as a result of her selfishness is beyond my comprehension. But as one poster indicated maybe you deserve each other; she can't be moral and honorable and you cant be loyal and honor your vows. There are a lot of single mothers whose children are the result of a failed attempts to lure a married man away from his wife. You did not owe this woman anything; you did own your loyalty to your own wife.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> I was gutted after I read this. I stopped reading. I will continue tomorrow.[/QUOT
> 
> Yeah, if this isn't troll tracks, this guy is a real piece of work.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Just read the rest of you post. I am surprised on how much trust you put in your partner Emily. After your betrayal of your wife, one would hope you are smarter than that. 

People grow up a lot between 18 to late 20's. Read the stories across relationship boards. So many cheating wife stories are about women who regret not sleeping much more during their college days or before the marriage. I am not saying Emily will definitely cheat or she is a *some random insult*. But most of the cheating stories with women are the ones that married too young and face the 'grass is greener' or 'settled too early' syndrome. After sometime, she will realize that you aren't as awesome as you seemed to be at 20. And there are men that are much more fun than you are. Whether she acts on them depend on opportunities or her morals(which aren't much now)

Your friends might not tell you this but most of them don't have respect for you as a person. They might act like they do, but they don't. Heck, you would respect the same person if it wasn't you that did it. Your gf(?) Emily will realize that shortly too. How she will react will depend on a lot of factors. I am pretty sure that you will not cheat again due to the trauma of your wife's death. One more side effect of the whole thing would be that you would be guilted into staying with Emily even if the relationship does not work out.


Some of your posts are delusional or a lot of denial. She would be evil to take away your daughter? Evil has nothing to do with what people will do. Read some divorce stories and how cruel they can be. Read some infidelity stories and see how evil they can be(including yours). Evil is having an affair with you even though she knew that you were married. You think yours is a special case because she got pregnant? I'm still surprised that you think the pregnancy was unexpected. You slept with her multiple times, no protection, you came in her, she wasn't on birth control. I would be surprised if she wouldn't get pregnant at some point. You willfully indulged in this behavior. 

And why do you think there are so many 20 something single mothers on a lot of dating sites? You think they don't like being a family? Think about it.

Oh, And I have a theory that virgins get attached to the first person they ****. Ever heard of that?

And with your desire to have your own kid, you pushed a 20 year old into having a kid too early into the relationship.


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## working_together (Oct 16, 2011)

warlock07 said:


> Just read the rest of you post. I am surprised on how much trust you put in your partner Emily. After your betrayal of your wife, one would hope you are smarter than that.
> 
> People grow up a lot between 18 to late 20's. Read the stories across relationship boards. So many cheating wife stories are about women who regret not sleeping much more during their college days or before the marriage. I am not saying Emily will definitely cheat or she is a *some random insult*. But most of the cheating stories with women are the ones that married too young and face the 'grass is greener' or 'settled too early' syndrome. After sometime, she will realize that you aren't as awesome as you seemed to be at 20. And there are men that are much more fun than you are. Whether she acts on them depend on opportunities or her morals(which aren't much now)
> 
> ...


I agree with much of what you say...but, when a woman meets a man at a young age and it is a very healthy and happy relationship where partners respect one another, it has a chance of success. I don't think women who are in this type of situation look for others because they didn't have the experience when they were younger, or for something "different". I had no desire to be with another man for 24 years, it has to do with a person's level of happeniss.

I think Emily is naeive, she was an inexperienced woman, and got caught up in a love affair. This happens to many women. I too was caught up when I was young, and got pregnant at 21. I never expected to get pregnant, I thought "it couldn't happen to me". I was so in love, that nothing else mattered at the time.

But yes, people do change and grow up.....


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Be very careful using the word never. I thought my husband would never cheat on me and he actually never thought he'd be a cheater. We were wrong. Do not trust blindly. I'm not saying this to be mean spirited about your gf.*

Never is probably too strong of a word. I would be very surprised if Emily were to cheat on me. She has never given me reason to be suspicious and we are generally good together. If anything it is her or who doubts me. I understand where you are all coming from but I am not going to assume she is cheating or wants to cheat. 

*Some of your posts are delusional or a lot of denial. I'm still surprised that you think the pregnancy was unexpected.*

Looking back it would seem crazy to not expect her to become pregnant. You just have to know where I am coming from. I had been doing the same thing (unprotected sex/finishing inside) with my wife for the last 5 years with no pregnancy. From my mindset it wasn't a concern. 

I see things a lot clearer now. I want to try to describe how I felt at the time of all of this so some of it may come across as a little deluded. 

I've thought about this a lot and I don't regret the pregnancy and my daughter. My mistakes lie in my cowardice at ending things and being deceitful to my wife about the nature of my relationship with my girlfriend. I don't for a second regret having my daughter. 

*And with your desire to have your own kid, you pushed a 20 year old into having a kid too early into the relationship.*

Yes. This is probably true. Its never a smart idea to have a child in an illicit relationship and one of only a few months. But it happened and we are trying to do the best we can. Emily loves our daughter and would never consider her a burden or anything like that. 

*She would be evil to take away your daughter? Evil has nothing to do with what people will do.*

I probably chose my words poorly. Another user was really going at me and I was kind of emotional when posting that. It would be hard for me to accept the loss of my daughter after seeing the loss of my wife. I hate to imagine a situation in which I lose my child. Any parent can relate to that. I think that is more what I meant. 

*I don't think women who are in this type of situation look for others because they didn't have the experience when they were younger, or for something "different". I had no desire to be with another man for 24 years, it has to do with a person's level of happeniss.*

I think this is the point I am trying to make. Our situation isn't perfect but it works. We are both happy with our daughter and we love one another. Our love came at great expense. I know Emily is happy with us and I know she isn't looking to stray. I know hundreds of couples that have been faithful for decades. It might seem hard to comprehend on an infidelity forum but it is possible. I think the larger point is people are trying to say it would be justice if she cheats on me. Maybe. Doesn't mean its going to happen. 

*How you can remain with her in light of what has happened as a result of her selfishness is beyond my comprehension.... You did not owe this woman anything; you did owe your loyalty to your own wife.
*
It was my selfishness. I had to make a decision. My unborn child or my wife. I picked my child and I am dealing with the consequences. I owed her plenty as the mother of my baby. I was a disloyal husband. There is no doubting or denying that. I am trying to not be a disloyal father now.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

Take a look at all the threads on here where people state that "I never thought my husband/wife would cheat." 

If you and Emily can have a relationship after what the two of you did to your wife, more power to you. I honestly don't know how either of you can sleep at night.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

We know Emily doesn't have any moral issues with cheaters since she has accepted you and you are a blatant cheater.

So down the road she is likely to decide either to give it a spin herself if she continues to haven't moral issues with it, or, she will one day look at you and see that you are a cheater and that you aren't someone she can trust.

Either way the karma bus will eventually visit, it always does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I'm not going to convince anyone of this but my girlfriend would never cheat on me.
> 
> *Evil is in the eye of the beholder. If she decides she can make a better deal with another man why should she stop because you perceive losing full time with your daughter as evil?
> *
> ...


You don't know that.

And I'm not saying this to be mean, but you are only responsible for your actions. Not hers. She is her own person.

Nearly every person that has been cheated on has said or thought the exact same things you posted. 

Only the future knows whether she will cheat on you or not but I will tell you this: you cannot know for sure she would "never."

Also, she is only 22. That is so incredibly young. Especially after having gone from affair to a child. There was no time to date. Mark my words--in 10 years, she isn't going to be the same person at all. 

I noticed you wrote that your relationship was mostly ok but is "plagued" by the guilt you both feel for what happened--expand on that, please. 

How did you find out your wife killed herself? Did you go to the funeral? What did your girlfriend say? Was the divorce finalized already? 

I can totally see why you don't feel ready to marry. I wouldn't either (in your shoes).

I strongly urge you to continue counselling and therapy and pick up some books. Guilt is a motherf*cker. The guilt brought on by betraying another is awful for those who truly are remorseful. The guilt of not only betraying your wife but knowing she took her life after the fallout is something I cannot even fathom. 

Are you on any depression medication? It may serve you well. I imagine you trigger quite a bit w/ her death (when you think about it). I'm guessing you prob have some PTSD from it all. 

I wouldn't wish your fate on anyone. But I do hope you can find some peace of mind because I cannot imagine living w/ the amount of guilt you do & what you must feel each day that you wake up. You really should invest in a lot of therapy and other self-help type things.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

With all due respect I am not going to continue to address my girlfriend cheating on me in the future. If it happens it happens. I don't think it will. Lets leave it at that. I have been struggling to continue to write so I will just again respond to other users. The final part of what happened is my wife finding out about the pregnancy, the birth, and her suicide. I've tried to put it to word and I just can't right now. So it will take some time. 

*We know Emily doesn't have any moral issues with cheaters since she has accepted you and you are a blatant cheater.*

I don't know what to say. It may sound completely hypocritical but fidelity is super important to Emily. She is possessive and we are very dependent on one another. The funny thing about people telling me watch out she is going to cheat on you is that it is Emily who is more concerned about this. I've been unfaithful once. It won't ever happen again. 

*I noticed you wrote that your relationship was mostly ok but is "plagued" by the guilt you both feel for what happened--expand on that, please. *

Its better now. We are 15 months out from my late wife's passing. What I meant is we both have to deal with the knowledge that our actions caused the death of someone else. Someone I loved. So it was brutal anytime someone mentioned my late wife for a long time (and still is to some extent). Not sure what else to say. Our relationship is mostly good. Its just there is an undercurrent with the cheating/suicide that is hard to overcome at times. 

*How did you find out your wife killed herself?*

I was going to address everything that happened when I wrote about it. Basically I found out from a long text she sent me before she took the pills. It was a gut wrenching message to read and it made clear what she had done. 

*Did you go to the funeral? *

It would have been insensitive to go. I wasn't invited. I grieved the loss privately. 

*What did your girlfriend say?* 

She just consoled me. I broke down after it and I was a mess. She stuck by me and took care of me and the newborn. She told me it wasn't my fault. 

*Was the divorce finalized already?*

No. Its ridiculous how long a divorce takes. We didn't even have kids and it wasn't over. It probably would have been finalized early in 2011. So when she died she was legally still my wife. 

*I can totally see why you don't feel ready to marry. I wouldn't either (in your shoes).*

Its not that I am opposed to marrying. I just want to give it some time. It hasn't even been two years since my wife passed on. In all likelihood I will marry my girlfriend at some point. We are all but married and I owe it to her. 

*The guilt brought on by betraying another is awful for those who truly are remorseful. The guilt of not only betraying your wife but knowing she took her life after the fallout is something I cannot even fathom. *

*But I do hope you can find some peace of mind because I cannot imagine living w/ the amount of guilt you do & what you must feel each day that you wake up. *

The guilt is no longer all encompassing. I wouldn't have been able to talk about this in detail a year ago. It is painful. Everytime I see anything that reminds me of my late wife I do trigger. I am in therapy and talking it out helps. All I am trying to do now is accept responsibility for what I have done and try to become a better person. I can't take back what I did. A lot of bad happened because of my cowardice and selfishness. A little good happened too. I am trying to move on from it. Hopefully at some point I will be able to.


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

You state that you and your wife were "active in your faith." What happened to your faith when you were lying and cheating? Are you active in your faith now?


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## Jill_B29 (Feb 3, 2012)

*The funny thing about people telling me watch out she is going to cheat on you is that it is Emily who is more concerned about this. *

Emily has every reason to be concerned, it's already happened!

*
I've been unfaithful once. It won't ever happen again. *

Incorrect WhoHaveIBecome, you have infact been unfaithful to two women.


*I had sex with my wife 3 times while I was living with my girlfriend and after I told her we were over.*

Or is having sex with your estranged wife while living with your pregnant girlfriend* not* cheating in your mind?

Does Emily know _you cheated on her_ with your late wife?


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Or is having sex with your estranged wife while living with your pregnant girlfriend not cheating in your mind? Does Emily know you cheated on her with your late wife?*

Well I never really thought about it that way. I did a lot of horrible things during this entire ordeal. I suppose I did technically cheat on Emily. The sex with my late wife was never initiated by me. I didn't stop it and I let it happen. It was during an odd period. She so desperately wanted to reconcile and I was too scared to tell her about the pregnancy. To be honest it would have been harder and almost cruel to just reject her. The three instances were within like a one week period and I never did it after that. 

Emily does not know about it. I'm not going to re-open scabs and tell her about it now. It was wrong. I did a lot of wrong things. I am 100% committed to Emily and our daughter and I would never do anything with another woman now. I haven't cheated on Emily ever since the divorce was filed. I know my words don't mean a lot considering my history but I would rather die than betray my partner again. I know I have changed. 

*Emily has every reason to be concerned, it's already happened!*

She does have reason to be concerned. I agree. I am very transparent and I don't hide a thing from her. I am only hers. 

*You state that you and your wife were "active in your faith." What happened to your faith when you were lying and cheating? Are you active in your faith now?*

Complicated situation. I was raised in a fairly conservative Catholic home. A lot of things happened after we got married that led me to lose touch with my spirituality. Our troubles (work related and the infertility primarily) pushed me away from being active in our faith. My wife fell back onto her faith and it was one of the differences we had. Clearly I lost my faith by the time I was cheating on my wife. I would no longer consider myself to be religious.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Sorry didn't mean to make you feel that I was picking at you. I am not sure what you want. It is as if you want to create a future that is at variance with reality. Regardless of how you came to be where you are now, the fate of you, Emily and your child will likely unfold roughly as predicted. Your belief that Emily would never cheat or that you will be the only man in the life of Emily and father figure to your child is optimistic. 

It is your fault that this is so . You desperation for a child made you forget select a woman that you knew would make a good stable long term partner and good parent. Getting a divorce from your wife and dating in search of a comparable woman would have been a wise course. . This would have sparred a great deal of pain and drama. You children would have a chance at a stable and happy home. 

Instead you got involved with girl who is in no way ready to get tied down with a child and a man she does not know. Now you have your baby and partner but at what price? Not just you but the child. You brought a child into this unstable situation. 

In this universe, we do play the odds in our relationships. You did not take the time, work and control it takes to consider the welfore of those who depended upon you. You now have to face the fact that poor planning and execution will cost you. 

If you really regret what you did, begin to make amends and think of your child and her future. You will need to work to stay in her life. Don't stand in Emily's way if she grows weary of playing house. Support her in what ever she decides so that you can be a good co parent to your kid. Do this and face reality and take your lumps like a man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

Catherine where in any of my posts have I suggested that Emily is unhappy and wants to leave me? I think you are projecting tremendously onto Emily. You are attributing traits and thoughts to her that she just doesn't have. 

*You desperation for a child made you forget select a woman that you knew would make a good stable long term partner and good parent.*

Emily is a good mother. Never have I ever said that she isn't. She is a wonderful parent. Just because she is somewhat young that doesn't make her automatically a bad parent. Its not like Emily is some junkie. I don't know what you think of her. She goes to school and takes care of the baby. Age does not correlate to parenting skills. I don't know what your issue is. Is it her age? Is it that she was an OW? How do either of those make her automatically a poor mother? 

*This would have sparred a great deal of pain and drama. Your children would have a chance at a stable and happy home. *

Again you are assuming so much. Our daughter is happy and her home is stable. 

*Support her in what ever she decides so that you can be a good co parent to your kid. Do this and face reality and take your lumps like a man.*

From your posts it doesn't sound like you have any children. Its so ridiculous to tell me to accept being a co-parent to my daughter. I am her dad. I am not just going to accept being a part time parent. It seems like you are more or less telling me that I need to accept that my girlfriend is going to leave - even though she has never even once expressed a desire to leave - and that I need to accept that because of the statistics my daughter won't have a happy home. Reading your posts it sounds like you are a cold, calculating woman with no heart. I'm not a perfect person. Far from it. But I do love my daughter and I want to do whats best for her. I love my girlfriend too. I want to make the best of a tough situation. Just letting her go and co-parenting is not the best case scenario. Being a family is. I couldn't imagine not having both my girlfriend and daughter in my life. I would do anything to protect both of them. The last thing I would ever do is take your horrible advice. I know I have made mistakes. Horrible, life changing mistakes. I really do try to do the right thing now and I don't want to repeat my mistakes. 

I'm not so much disputing the fact that our situation is less than perfect. It isn't perfect. Ideally I should have never cheated on my wife. I should have asked her for a divorce. I should have dated for some time and found someone compatible to me. I can't go back in time as much as I wish I could. My life now is I have a partner who I love who maybe isn't the perfect match but our relationship works. I have the child I so desperately wanted and who I love to pieces. All I can do now is try to make it work. And we try every single day to that.


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## Jill_B29 (Feb 3, 2012)

WhoHaveIBecome thank you for your reponse to my comments, I feel it only fair to 'out' myself as a betrayed spouse right now. I will therefore have a certain bias but will try very hard to keep myself in check. My only aim is to offer some suggestions that may help you (and Emily) I will try to refrain from beating you over the head for your past actions as you seem to be doing quite a good job of that yourself.


Everyone will have a certain 'bias' in this discussion depending on their personal experiences. Betrayed spouses will likely feel anger toward you and Emily (gently, yes she is a cheat too, she cheated with you when she knew you were married) and compassion for your late wife. Wayward spouses, well I have no idea what they might feel LOL Anyone who has experienced the pain of a loved ones suicide will be feeling something else altogether and non of it, I suspect, good.


IMO (and it is only my opinion) you _do _need to tell Emily about your sexual encounters with your late wife while you were in your relationship with Emily. You state "*I am very transparent and I don't hide a thing from her*" but in fact you are hiding "a thing" and it will very possibly eat away at you (possibly not) If you are to have a committed, life long relationship with Emily as you seem to desire it needs to be based on honesty from here on & not lies (and a lie of ommission is still a lie)

*I'm not going to re-open scabs and tell her about it now*

This suggests that you are more concerned with your having to deal with her reaction to this news. This is a selfserving notion and straight out ot the Wayward spouses handbook. To stop being a Wayward spouse you have to stop _all_ Wayward behaviours.


You have lived a life of lies, deceit and betrayal but you can turn it around IF you now live in truth (Wow! That sounded way "preachier" than I intended LOL **gets off me soapbox now**) You cannot change the past, you cannot bring back your late wife but you can be honest with Emily, at the very least she deserves that as the mother of your child.


Perhaps you would benefit from individual counselling, it sounds like you are struggling with all of this (and I understand why you would be) and you need some help sorting through these emotions with a non judgemental, impartial person. Again IMO you need someone (such as a counsellor) who will be "on your side" IYKWIM


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I never said Emily wants to leave you now, just that she might. Are you saying that it is impossible? I understand that you cannot imagine losing them but you have to be realistic. 

That means you set your self up mentally and financially to be a good parent for your daughter and to be aware that maintaing a LTR with her mother is going to be very difficult. If that is difficult for you to imagine now then don't. 

Your relationship is riddled with secrets, lies and deception. It works now because Emily is still in the honeymoon phase and she is allowing you as an older more knowledgable man to dominate. 

When the rose-colored glasses come off and she begins to see the real you, it may be difficult for you to live up to her fantasy.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I've gotten a little off track responding to folks. This is a continuation of my retelling of events. This is a continuation of Post #62 from last night. I'm really not trying to drag this out but I haven't been able to write clearly about this. 

*She Knows*

I don't know why I thought we could keep a pregnancy a secret. Its one of the many things I didn't think out clearly. Obviously once we had the baby my wife would know. In retrospect there was no point to my lying. I thought I was saving my late wife pain by not telling her about the baby. I wasn't. 

We (Emily & I) did not talk about the pregnancy much publicly and Emily did not run in the same crowd my wife did. As far as I know they never had any mutual friends or acquaintances. Aside from myself, Emily, and a few of her family/friends no one knew about the pregnancy. It is sort of a mess of a situation to be in and at the time I thought it would be better to keep the pregnancy quiet. What ended up happening is my mother ended up figuring out that Emily was pregnant. I'm not sure if it was because she was showing or just random behavior. But she knew. I think I talked about this earlier but my mother was very close with my late wife and she was disappointed in me. When she asked me if Emily was pregnant I didn't deny it and she said I had to tell my wife. I refused and she ended up dropping some hint to her a couple days later. One of the side effects of this is that my relationship with my mother is quite damaged and we aren't as close as we were. She ended up forgiving me (as much as she could) because she wanted to be involved in her granddaugher's life. But our relationship has changed. 

Back to the phone call. I panicked and didn't say anything. I was cold to her and said something like we are getting a divorce. What does it matter? I couldn't really talk for that long anyways and I ended up ending the call within a couple minutes. I felt something between relief and guilt. I was relieved that it was out in the open now but I was guilty that my wife knew I was having the one thing she wanted. I never ever wanted to hurt her. It might sound ridiculous considering my actions but I wasn't out to punish her or make her feel bad. Looking back most of my actions were just self-centered. 

I ended up sending my wife a fairly long rambling email trying to explain myself the next day. It was the first real contact I had with her in some time and re-reading the email its pretty clear what I was trying to do. In the email I didn't really apologize to her for what had happened. I said I was doing the right thing and I had to be there for my baby. I asked her to understand and essentially played a family man. Her response was acidic. She was finished feeling sorry for me by now and was just at a point of pure hatred. She was never a hateful person but her reply was so so mean-spirited and she expressed a lot of disgust at me and anger at my girlfriend. I know that she messaged some similar things to my girlfriend through facebook as well. I don't blame her for being mad but I know her response just made me double down on my decision. There was no going back at all. There really wasn't before but I still thought at some point in the future we could be friends. At this point I realized it wouldn't be like that. 

Our divorce was getting more and more contentious as well. I was hoping we could be finalized prior to the birth but because of a couple or legal things it was taking a lot longer than I hoped. What more or less went on for the next couple months was my wife would lash out at me and I would usually ignore her. Her family didn't live where we did - we had moved where we did for my work a couple years earlier - and she was isolated from her family. I really think if she moved back home or if she met someone things could have turned out differently. Instead she essentially festered in her anger. There wasn't much benefit to me continuing to talk to her and I focused exclusively on preparing for the baby. My girlfriend and I signed a lease for a condo and moved out of her apartment around early August/ late July. 

Our daughter was born on August 28th, 2010. She was healthy and once we took her home she became our life. I didn't spend any time on thinking about my ex and the divorce and just got immersed in the baby. Its hard to explain but I really really wanted the baby and its something I had been hoping for for the last 5-6 years. So having our daughter finally was just amazing. I know now in retrospect that seeing me be so happy after what I done ended up destroying my wife. To her it just did not seem fair. It probably wasn't. To her I had betrayed my wife, cheated on her for months, got another woman pregnant, and had the child we both wanted. My only punishment for this was some legal bills and having to move out. My wife was alone, childless and depressed as a result of my actions.


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## oaksthorne (Mar 4, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> I never said Emily wants to leave you now, just that she might. Are you saying that it is impossible? I understand that you cannot imagine losing them but you have to be realistic.
> 
> That means you set your self up mentally and financially to be a good parent for your daughter and to be aware that maintaing a LTR with her mother is going to be very difficult. If that is difficult for you to imagine now then don't.
> 
> ...


Do you realize that you are wasting your time on this guy? Rationalization and cognitive dissonance are wonderful tools to avoid reality.If I were in his shoes and had to look at myself in the mirror everyday, I'd tell myself big whoppers too.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*IMO (and it is only my opinion) you do need to tell Emily about your sexual encounters with your late wife while you were in your relationship with Emily. You state "I am very transparent and I don't hide a thing from her" but in fact you are hiding "a thing" and it will very possibly eat away at you (possibly not) If you are to have a committed, life long relationship with Emily as you seem to desire it needs to be based on honesty from here on & not lies (and a lie of ommission is still a lie)*

What is the benefit now? I have so much guilt on my conscience. Relieving this minor thing is not going to help. I could just deny it all and no one would know. My wife is dead. There are no others with knowledge about when we had sex. I'm not saying this to be cold or heartless. Its just that there is no way Emily will find out about it. 

Telling her this is going to only cause problems. I have worked really hard to be at a point where we basically trust each other completely. Admitting to cheating early in our relationship can only do harm. I want to be honest with her. At the same time I don't want to cause her any more pain than necessary. Would you be happy knowing your spouse cheated on you? Especially when it literally can never happen again. I understand wanting to be honest. I really do. But I am not going to jeopardize my relationship in pursuit of honesty. 

*My only aim is to offer some suggestions that may help you (and Emily) I will try to refrain from beating you over the head for your past actions as you seem to be doing quite a good job of that yourself.*

I really appreciate the suggestions. I am reading everything people post and I'm trying to just use the advice constructively. Thank You for the advice. 

*I never said Emily wants to leave you now, just that she might. Are you saying that it is impossible? *

Catherine of course its not impossible. Its just not likely. I don't think you understand the dynamic in our relationship either. She isn't the type of girl who sleeps around or cheats. I've never even seen her flirt with another man. And she is really attached to me and she loves me. She knows my flaws and she still loves me. 

*Be aware that maintaing a LTR with her mother is going to be very difficult*

Maintaining a relationship is hard. I would much rather try my hardest to make it work than just accept its likely not going to. 

*It works now because Emily is still in the honeymoon phase and she is allowing you as an older more knowledgable man to dominate*

Its been nearly 3 years since I met Emily. We are way out of the honeymoon stage. Our relationship has endured some really stressful things and we are in a good place now. And I have to say I love how you make it seem like I am turning 70 in your posts. 

*When the rose-colored glasses come off and she begins to see the real you, it may be difficult for you to live up to her fantasy.*

She knows the real me. I can't hide who I am and be with someone for as long as I have with Emily. She knows my flaws by now. And my tumultuous first marriage aside I am an attractive partner. I've been called handsome. I have a good job. I am a good parent. I take care of Emily and our daughter. And I love them both. Its not like she is trapped in an unhealthy relationship. I really think you need to stop assuming Emily feels a certain way. Is it so unfathomable that she could be happy with a loving partner, beautiful daughter and comfortable home. 

*Rationalization and cognitive dissonance are wonderful tools to avoid reality.If I were in his shoes and had to look at myself in the mirror everyday, I'd tell myself big whoppers too.*

You know I am really trying to be self-critical and accept responsibility for my actions. I can't change what I did. I've said again and again it was wrong. What do you expect me to do? Its actually quite trying to sit and relive these memories. I am open to suggestions. What exactly can I do now? I can't bring my wife back. I have to focus on what I can control and doing the best for my family.


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## Bugz Bunny (Nov 28, 2011)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> *Or is having sex with your estranged wife while living with your pregnant girlfriend not cheating in your mind? Does Emily know you cheated on her with your late wife?*
> 
> Well I never really thought about it that way. I did a lot of horrible things during this entire ordeal. I suppose I did technically cheat on Emily. The sex with my late wife was never initiated by me. I didn't stop it and I let it happen. It was during an odd period. She so desperately wanted to reconcile and I was too scared to tell her about the pregnancy. To be honest it would have been harder and almost cruel to just reject her. The three instances were within like a one week period and I never did it after that.
> 
> Emily does not know about it. I'm not going to re-open scabs and tell her about it now. It was wrong. I did a lot of wrong things. I am 100% committed to Emily and our daughter and I would never do anything with another woman now. I haven't cheated on Emily ever since the divorce was filed. I know my words don't mean a lot considering my history but I would rather die than betray my partner again. I know I have changed.


No you haven't changed...you are still selfish and only care about yourself...you are still deceiving another person (Emily) and you are only witholding the true because of you and your selfishness and not Emily,just like you witholded the true from your poor wife...You disrespected your wife and you are now disrespecting Emily...

Sadly you will never change...


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

Are you still comfortable with finishing the rest of the story?


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I hope he does. I know I may be wasting my time. But regardless, we have to look at each situation as real at least until we can prove they are trolls. In my faith, it is not as important what others do. It is important what I do. So until I feel for sure they're trolls, they get the full benefit of my sage advice. LOL


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## oldmittens (Dec 2, 2011)

Initfortheduration said:


> I hope he does. I know I may be wasting my time. But regardless, we have to look at each situation as real at least until we can prove they are trolls. In my faith, it is not as important what others do. It is important what I do. So until I feel for sure they're trolls, they get the full benefit of my sage advice. LOL



I totally agree and to be honest I don't understand why people get so hot and bothered about trolls. So what if they are at worst you've wasted 10 min writing a response that someone else might read some time and get help from. But more than likely you're actually helping someone who's going to a hard time I'm willing to take the risk and hope others are to.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

I wish all the posts that speculate about whether a person is real or trolling would just be vaporized.

Who wants to read that crap? If it IS a troll then posts questioning it are feeding right into it, and if it isn't a troll it's distracting and a hijack when a person is in dire straits and really needs advice, not to waste their time and effort trying to convince the naysayers that they're being honest. In most cases you're never going to know for sure (although the moderators do have some tools at their disposal) so just let it go and either post good advice or move to another thread.

Even if it IS a troll if it's treated like a real story and good advice is given it's helpful to anyone who might be in a similar situation that lurks and reads threads that might have a title that captures their interest. Just don't get all kneejerk emotional and reactive because something in the story gets to you, that doesn't help anyone and that IS the intended goal of most trolls anyway.

As far as this thread goes and the guy who wrote it..

He cheats on his wife with a girl much younger than him (who is well aware that he's married), he gets her pregnant, she has a child, he bounces back and forth between her and his devoted, faithful loving wife, giving them both false hope, he lies to her and his wife about a bunch of stuff, the wife becomes literally sick over it, commits suicide, this guy defends both his own actions and that of his girlfriend over a half dozen pages, and wants our blessings for his upcoming marriage?

Good luck man.

Enjoy the honeymoon because that's probably as good as it's ever going to get.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Are you still comfortable with finishing the rest of the story?*

There is only a little bit left to write and honestly it isn't fun to go relive those moments. What I have left to write is a nightmare and the worst time of my life. I'm not mentally ready to go back into that frame of mind.

It doesn't help that 20% of the posts are accusing me of trolling. Even though there is no evidence whatsoever that I have lied. And I think the response has been very harsh. I am not surprised but it has been hard for me to deal with. When the thread died out I just decided to let it go. To be honest I probably won't finish writing it anytime soon. I've already said what happened. Having me describe it is overkill and too much for me right now. 

I'm sorry if I disappointed anyone. I've got a lot on my plate as of now and I don't have the time and I'm not in the proper state of mind to finish writing. I will try to update this thread whenever I am ready.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> It doesn't help that 20% of the posts are accusing me of trolling. Even though there is no evidence whatsoever that I have lied.


I notice that's about the right percentage for some of the more extreme threads. 

Despite my disapproval with how you've handled your life up to date and my serious doubts about a successful union with young mistress, I understand your frustrations with the self proclaimed troll hunters who seem to be a select group who have bestowed themselves with special powers and privileges usually only given to a forum moderator.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

*Despite my disapproval with how you've handled your life up to date and my serious doubts about a successful union with young mistress, I understand your frustrations with the self proclaimed troll hunters who seem to be a select group who have bestowed themselves with special powers and privileges usually only given to a forum moderator.*

I noticed you posted on my other thread in general. Can I ask you what your advice is then for me? I am trying to make the best of our situation. I made grave mistakes that I have to live with for the rest of my life. I am trying to move on and be a good father and do what is best for my family. I cannot go and change what has already happened no matter how much I wish I could.


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## hisfac (Feb 10, 2012)

WhoHaveIBecome said:


> I noticed you posted on my other thread in general. Can I ask you what your advice is then for me? I am trying to make the best of our situation. I made grave mistakes that I have to live with for the rest of my life. I am trying to move on and be a good father and do what is best for my family. I cannot go and change what has already happened no matter how much I wish I could.


Don't marry young mistress it's a disaster waiting to happen. Nothing to gain, everything to lose. Stay together while it lasts, part amicably when it fails. 

Take care of your child and be a good father no matter what happens with mom. Don't complicate the situation with more children, one is more than enough. 

Show more consideration for other people in your life who have bestowed you with their trust. 

Sit down and really think about what your wife was going through when she slowly deteriorated into oblivion largely as a result of your actions- although I admit every person is ultimately responsible for their own well being and she could have pulled it together and told you to screw off and gone and lived a happy life without you if she was so able, that part isn't necessarily your 'fault' even though you were obviously a contributing factor to her death.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

You know I just sat here the last 20 minutes and read all of WhoHaveIbecomes posts here, none of the others.... for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would even think he is a troll... and putting past the grave mistakes he did (I can see how he had sex with his wife wanting to console her during that time-- Yes, wrong, but human somehow)... Call me crazy, but I don't see him as a monster at all, but a man totally changed from a situation that was more tragic than a percentage of us would EVER find ourselves caught in -in this lifetime.

How easily it is to judge. And unless someone here has lived with a depressed wife dealing with years of infertility, they would also not understand, or have walked in such shoes. I can see how you would want to get away, the situation could drag anyone down...to hell infact. 

In my own life, I was so very thankful I had 1 child (we had over 6 yrs of inferitlity , all the tests ,tears, a surgery) ... because I always felt I might have been what you described your 1st wife to be (in the depths of despair).... I felt I was spared that. For this I did rejoice. I never got too depressed just b****y .... Which helped me NOT get depressed taking it all inward somehow. I was very jealous of those with large families. I should have been thankful for what I had, and I was.... but I wanted more somehow. I wanted a large family ...

I think the poster can relate to that. It's just human. 

I can understand your pure joy when holding that baby in your arms too. 

I strongly feel, from reading your words, you are doing all you possibly can to be the BEST MAN , best father you can be NOW... to Emily, to your daughter. I can not even fathom the heaviness you carry. Continue with that therapy. 

I personally do not find you a monster at all.. ...but a struggling man who wants to find a forgiveness you can not grasp .....to give yourself permission to love and enjoy life in it's fullness again -before this tragedy...how life was somehow, not tained with blood. 

If anyone would never cheat again, it would be THIS man, some things change us for life, a lesson engraved on our souls. 

You have poured out your remorse here not trying to blame anyone but yourself before us... crucifying yourself - and yet not running away -but continuned on with your story... holding strong to the love of your daughter, why apologize for this, and to be faithful to her mother. Kinda reminds me of David in the Bible . Really, think about it -- look what he did !!! 

I am not here to get blood from you, I wish you well, and I hope you find Peace in this life , I feel those who go through the hardest things often have the most compassion. Even those who have fallen the furthest are capable of a compassion most will never FEEL. My step father was a alcoholic, he suffered all his life from such a disease, because when he was younger, he was driving wrecklessly and in a moment-his best friend was killed --and he had a family. He never forgave himself... even 40 yrs after this friends death, if you brought it up, he would cry, he had more compassion on other people than anyone I personally have met in my entire life. But hey -that is another story. People screw up, emotions get in the way. Life is unfair.

I think I would do 2 things... to heal yourself and find forgiveness.... come forth and be honest with Emily about when you had sex with your wife.. SHe should understand the why's behind what you did -trying to spare this woman , from tearing her soul out and stomping on it. Emily WILL understand, I just believe that . Look , who got the worse end of the deal here, I would find this terribly easy to forgive, but hey, that is just me. 

And if you feel anything has been left unsaid, unspoken to her parents... about your remorse, maybe reach out to them. A letter, something. A gesture of kindness in some way. Nothing you do or say can ever bring thier daughter back, but if you feel anything has been left unsaid.. that It could mean something , but then again, it could resurrect so much , I don't know.

Just my long winded 2 cents.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

SimplyAmorous said:


> I can see how he had sex with his wife wanting to console her during that time-- Yes, wrong, but human somehow


I think you are the first person to understand what I was trying to explain with regards to the sex with my late wife. Its not something I wanted and I didn't do it b/c I was horny or wanted two women. I did it because I was scared and I couldn't reject my wife. How is rejecting your wife who wants and needs affection the better choice. Either way I was going to come out horrible. And its my fault for even being in the situation so I accept the blame for that. But I don't know what I should have done. I could not even imagine rejecting my wife and saying that I was committed to my girlfriend while she wanted to reconcile. That is cruel. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> How easily it is to judge. And unless someone here has lived with a depressed wife dealing with years of infertility, they would also not understand, or have walked in such shoes. I can see how you would want to get away, the situation could drag anyone down...to hell infact.


I'm not going to say it was OK to do what I did b/c my wife was depressed but its not exactly rare. We knew two other couples that were going through fertility issues. One is now divorced (the other couple has twins). It is such an all encompassing thing. Every where you go you see kids and when you can't have them it is painful. 

I think things would have been different if we had the child together that we wanted. I wasn't a strong enough person to handle the stress and instead of being there with my wife to help her I hurt her. And I know this. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I can understand your pure joy when holding that baby in your arms too.
> 
> I strongly feel, from reading your words, you are doing all you possibly can to be the BEST MAN , best father you can be NOW... to Emily, to your daughter. I can not even fathom the heaviness you carry. Continue with that therapy.


I'm trying to the best I can now. That is why it has been so hard for me to hear from people who say "expect her to leave you" and who tell me my daughter's life is going to be hard. I do everything for Emily and Ava (our daughter). I am trying to make the best out of this situation. I am not perfect and I know that. All I can do now is try to make this work. I would hate myself (even more than I already do) if I wasn't a good father. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> You have poured out your remorse here not trying to blame anyone but yourself before us... crucifying yourself - and yet not running away -but continuned on with your story... holding strong to the love of your daughter, why apologize for this, and to be faithful to her mother. Kinda reminds me of David in the Bible . Really, think about it -- look what he did !!!


That is awfully kind of you to say. Your entire post almost made me cry. It was one of the few genuinely empathetic posts anyone has written towards me. Thank You. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> If anyone would never cheat again, it would be THIS man, some things change us for life, a lesson engraved on our souls.


I would hate myself so much if I ever did anything like what I did again. I would never ever do anything to hurt my daugher's life and cheating on her mother would wreck her life. I have changed so many things about myself in order to prevent going down that road again.*

I keep reading and hearing "once a cheater always a cheater" or similar slogans and it bothers me so much. Its gotten to the point where I am so afraid of cheating and hurting someone else that I am hesitant to marry my girlfriend. Because I think I am going to go do something so evil again. It will never ever happen again.*



SimplyAmorous said:


> I think I would do 2 things... to heal yourself and find forgiveness.... come forth and be honest with Emily about when you had sex with your wife.. SHe should understand the why's behind what you did -trying to spare this woman , from tearing her soul out and stomping on it. Emily WILL understand, I just believe that . Look , who got the worse end of the deal here, I would find this terribly easy to forgive, but hey, that is just me.
> 
> 
> And if you feel anything has been left unsaid, unspoken to her parents... about your remorse, maybe reach out to them. A letter, something. A gesture of kindness in some way. Nothing you do or say can ever bring thier daughter back, but if you feel anything has been left unsaid.. that It could mean something , but then again, it could resurrect so much , I don't know.


I am not afraid of anything bad happening if I told Emily about the sex with my wife. I know what I did was wrong but it was defensible. Emily is a reasonable woman. Emily is sympathetic to my wife and she doesn't hate her at all. I know she would understand but I don't want to go and bring up all of those memories. 

I am more just hesitant to bring up the whole affair and my wife b/c of the pain surrounding everything.I don't like bringing that topic up because we both only become depressed when we talk about it. 

I think I will try to give her the whole truth at some point. I would feel relieved to get it out but I want and need to wait until the time is right. There are some things that we are talking about now that require our full attention. I don't want to revisit the affair right now with Emily. 

I wish I could talk to my late wife's family. I guess I have too much shame to go and do it. They hate me and understandably so. I told them I would protect their daughter and I did the exact opposite. I want them to know I am sorry for everything but they don't want to see my face. I will try to write down in a letter how sorry I am about what I did and give it to them. Its probably meaningless at this point but it would help give me closure. I don't know if it would help or hurt her family. Emotions are still high so I will wait some time before talking to them. It hasn't even been two years since her death. 

I wanted to say Thank You so much for this post. Its helped me clarify so much and was so thoughtful and empathetic and kind. It is more than I honestly deserve to hear but it was such a change from the lashings I normally receive from posters here.


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## Badblood (Oct 27, 2011)

Emily? ****enson? I have just read this whole thread and I am doubly convinced it is fictional in every aspect. I once taught a creative writing class, and this story reminds me of some of the over-dramatic short stories I recieved as work assignments.


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## mr.rightaway (Apr 27, 2010)

OP, how will you handle the issue of describing this situation to your daughter when she's old enough to understand? What are you going to tell your daughter about your late wife? What kind of image will you be painting of this woman? The choices that were made during that time directly led to her birth, but the connection to the late wife is indirect.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Badblood said:


> Emily? ****enson? I have just read this whole thread and I am doubly convinced it is fictional in every aspect. I once taught a creative writing class, and this story reminds me of some of the over-dramatic short stories I recieved as work assignments.


This is going to sound sexist but the writing style is much more female than male. The cloying starts and stops is more feminine. There is no clear request for advice or assitence but an all too ready defensive response to anything.but support. 

It is an interesting story but the characters are too stillted. It is interesting that Emily has a name but I get no sense of anything else about her except she is an innocent, devoted and in love teenaged girl who had sex with and got pregnant by a man who was married. She is happy with a depressed man who worries about his child and who assumes that she will put his need to keep the child above her own needs.

I'd say that Emily will behave true to character and look out for her own interest when better opportunities present themselves, weather she is real or fiction.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## karole (Jun 30, 2010)

If you had not been able to father a child, do you think your wife would have done to you what you did to her?


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

mr.rightaway said:


> OP, how will you handle the issue of describing this situation to your daughter when she's old enough to understand? What are you going to tell your daughter about your late wife? What kind of image will you be painting of this woman? The choices that were made during that time directly led to her birth, but the connection to the late wife is indirect.


I have no intention of telling my daughter anything about my first wife. There is no need to bring up the topic with her. If I do talk about my late wife the image I would paint is a positive one. There is need to speak ill of the dead. I haven't said much negative about my late wife here and I have no plans on saying anything bad about her to my daughter. I honestly don't see why I would have to bring it up to my daughter. They aren't related in any way. 

Badblood & Catherine. I've tried to respond to people who doubt my honesty. There is no way I can win this argument. I'm telling the truth. Whether you want to believe me or not it is up to you. And the stopping and starting is just because I have a limited amount of time. I have a job and other responsibilities so I cannot sit and write here for hours. 



Catherine602 said:


> I'd say that Emily will behave true to character and look out for her own interest when better opportunities present themselves
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to say it never gets old how you act like you know my girlfriend. I've told you she is different than how you seem to think she is. I'm not saying she is perfect or is a saint. She has her flaws like anyone does. But she isn't selfish or manipulative like you insist she is. 

I would also take umbrage that you think I am a depressed man. I'm depressive when I talk about the death of my wife. Who wouldn't be? It would be disconcernign if I was anything but sad. I'm not like this about everything and I am a fun lively person in general. Its hard to show that through text. 




karole said:


> If you had not been able to father a child, do you think your wife would have done to you what you did to her?


No



Angel5112 said:


> You are rug sweeping. You and your GF can never get past your guilt and shame if you don't talk about it. If you need to, go to a counselor to discuss it. I believe your GF will understand. I think she will also appreciate you being honest and trying to resolve this, because right now it is the elephant in the room. To be happy in life you have to make the hard choices. You can't just stop talking about things because they are upsetting. I cheated on my husband and it is physically painful to think or talk about it, but I always feel better afterwards and so does my husband.


I appreciate the advice and I will talk to my counselor about if/how to bring up the topic with my girlfriend. I'm hesitant to bring it up but we do have to talk about it at some point. I will tell her about the incidents with my wife as well but it won't be soon. There are some other things that we are going through right now that take precedence. 

To address the blame part of your post. Its hard for me not to assume responsibility. My wife blamed me in the messages she sent before she died. I received the same message that her parents received and it was explicit in who pushed her there. For better or worse her family (and I as well) hold myself more or less responsible for what happened. I think if she had different/better coping skills it would have turned out different. Had I been honest earlier it would have turned out different. Its hard to go back and think about that which is why I didn't completely finish writing down everything.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You said 

*"I have to say it never gets old how you act like you know my girlfriend. I've told you she is different than how you seem to think she is. I'm not saying she is perfect or is a saint. She has her flaws like anyone does. But she isn't selfish or manipulative like you insist she is."
*

In life and fiction, especially fiction, people behave true to form. The way they treat others is the way they will treat you, eventually. 

That is one of the ways you vet people for jobs and close relationships. What have they done before. 

Your gf had no problem engaging in a deceptive relationship that she knew would hurt another woman deeply. 

Emily was not desperate. She was not without excellent options. She could easily have walked away, out of compassion for this woman who was your wife, who was struggling to become a mother. 

And struggling to hold on to a man she loved. Your wife was the one with limited options, she was the one who needed compassion. 

With so many other options open to the good Emily that would have involved hurting no one, lest of all a desperate woman, why did she not walk away from the beginning? 

I think most girls and woman would have. Those with an ounce of humanity. You said in a previous post that Emily did not hate your wife. 

Why on earth would you even contemplate that for gf would feel any negative emotions towards a woman whose life she destroyed? 

Now tell me again what you think she will do when she gets restless in the future? Maybe some young guy with more money, power with game will come along. 

What to do, what to do, Emily will ask herself. Will she or won't she. What's to stop her, morals, character, a sense of empathy and compassion for you, your love? 

What do you think? She got what she wanted once before, success makes one bold and confident. 

If this were fictional, the Emily character would go for it.


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## CH (May 18, 2010)

WHIB, if you want us to tell you that getting married is the right thing to do then just go ahead and marry her.

We're all strangers here, we won't be living with you or your gf (or wife to be) and personally we don't really care if you do or not. We give our opinions, and yes sometimes some of us do come on pretty hard and get gritty. Take what you want and decide what you have to do. It's your life and you have to decide how best to live it. 

IMO, you used her as a means to get a child you always wanted. You do love her and she most likely does love you. But you did not go into that relationship with all your ducks lined up in a row, you jumped into the middle of it because she got pregnant.

Think long and hard and really see yourself 5 years, 10 years, 20 years down the road with this young girl. If all you want are kids then just keep plugging away to get kids and live a happy life for you. Maybe you 2 live happily ever after but you both have this HUGE and I MEAN HUGE black cloud hanging over you.

It might blow over or it might become a mountain and fall on the both of you in the future, no one can tell but it's something to consider.


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## WhoHaveIBecome (Mar 9, 2012)

I have to admit Catherine you are making me look at my past from a lens I didn't previously see it in. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. Lets say Emily is not as good as I wish she is. She is still the mother of my child and my partner. What use is it to me to demonize her? I am with her for better or for worse. There is no benefit for me to go back and say she made mistakes. I am where I am now. I have to deal. 



Catherine602 said:


> Emily was not desperate. She was not without excellent options. She could easily have walked away, out of compassion for this woman who was your wife, who was struggling to become a mother.


Just to be fair she didn't know about my wife's struggle with fertility until some time after we met. I rarely spoke of my wife when we were together. All she knew of my wife is what I told her. And I hate to admit this but I didn't speak glowingly of my wife. I only voiced my complaints. So if Emily had a perception of my wife it probably was not an entirely positive one. 



Catherine602 said:


> And struggling to hold on to a man she loved. Your wife was the one with limited options, she was the one who needed compassion.
> 
> With so many other options open to the good Emily that would have involved hurting no one, lest of all a desperate woman, why did she not walk away from the beginning?


I know you don't put much stock in things such as love but that was probably her reasoning for not walking away. I don't think either of us saw what we were doing as something that directly hurt another person. It was fun and exciting. We didn't consider the consequences. 

What I've tried to say is Emily doesn't owe my wife anything. I owe my wife everything. I am the one who vowed to protect her and care for her and love her. I am the one who should have been more compassionate and understanding. Instead I was selfish and cold-hearted. The blame for the affair lies predominantly with me. 



Catherine602 said:


> Now tell me again what you think she will do when she gets restless in the future? Maybe some young guy with more money, power with game will come along.
> 
> What to do, what to do, Emily will ask herself. Will she or won't she. What's to stop her, morals, character, a sense of empathy and compassion for you, your love?


I've never once (until I started posting here) even entertained the idea of either of us cheating. Its still something that I cannot see her doing. You don't know her or understand her so I am sure on paper its easy to say, "she cheated with you, she'll cheat on you". It isn't like that. Ever since we have been serious she has expected fidelity from me and been completely faithful to me. She isn't a party girl or the type of woman who sleeps around. One of our things is her saying she's mine and mine alone and vice-versa. 

Emily likes being a mother and I firmly believe she would never betray our family. We both are loving parents and we want whats best for our daughter and future children. Cheating jeopardizes that vision. Maybe you will be proven right in the future. I really don't think it'll happen but I will be sure to post an update if you turned out to be accurate. 



cheatinghubby said:


> WHIB, if you want us to tell you that getting married is the right thing to do then just go ahead and marry her. Take what you want and decide what you have to do. It's your life and you have to decide how best to live it.


My thread was never some binding poll. I am going to make the decision that I think is best for me and my family. I just wanted to hear feedback from folks that have relevant experience. 

If anyone is curious I did make a decision. I am going to ask Emily in a week to marry me and hopefully we will have a quiet wedding in the summer. There are some financial benefits and legal issues that made marriage a good option for me. I am also not a fan of the stigma associated with live-in relationships. I'm in my mid 30s. I think I am too old for a "girlfriend". I know there are risks but nothing good is risk-free. 



cheatinghubby said:


> IMO, you used her as a means to get a child you always wanted. You do love her and she most likely does love you. But you did not go into that relationship with all your ducks lined up in a row, you jumped into the middle of it because she got pregnant.


I know our relationship started in less than ideal conditions. What we have now is nice. We have a beautiful child together. We love one another. It could be worse. I have the family I've always wanted and if things go as planned it will be growing:smthumbup:

I'm a lot more appreciative of our daughter and the gift of children than most people. I come from a big family (six kids) and I've always wanted the same type of household. I spent years with my first wife trying to have kids unsuccessfully. I'm very hesitant to do anything that would risk losing the family that I finally have. I know I've made huge mistakes and the happiness I have now has come at great cost. I'm just trying to do the right thing from now on.


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