# The emotional and sexual pursuer husband.



## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Hello everyone, it has been a while. I am so very grateful to this community. Last year I posted because I was wanting to connect with my distant wife. And was guided by tough and helpful words to the realization that I needed to face uncomfortable truths about myself and the husband I had been for 9 years.

I read “no more mister nice guy” and saw myself in the text. I started listening to a couple of really good marrage podcasts. And started to figure out how the way I had been acting was encouraging my wife to push me away and be disrespectful.

So I had a couple of deep conversations with my wife to lay clear boundaries and tell her about the journey I was beginning. Things were rocky between us and tough the first 3 months. It was difficult for me to just let go of my anxiety and anxiousness about our marriage, but I have much been happier since.

I hardly have things figured out and there are still so many walls... but I am happier, even though the sex life is still about 1-2 encounters per month (initiated by me, first getting her aroused in her sleep).

I am learning that my experiences from my family of origin with neglect and abuse were fuling a fire of anxious attachment to my wife. I was causing her to withdraw by my repeated attempts to get closer and by cruel actions disguised as jokes or angry outbursts born of unvoiced frustrations.

I truly believe that my wife likes me more now, and that’s good, but what is much more important is that I like myself, dispite my many ****ty parts.

I’d like advice going forward from those who have been in my shoes and feel they can be a guide on this journey.

I can best describe our marriage now as two friends/room mates, who are working together to make a great life for our children.

This is great, but my primary goal is closeness to my wife and there are so, so many walls.

We have 3 young children (5,3,18mos) and my wife stays home. I only work about 45 hours a week and do very well in my career now, although we were near poverty just 5 years ago.

My family wants for nothing now. I am engaged and a devoted father. I do more than half of the housework and cooking and am in a general good mood.

My wife is my darling. She is far from perfect, but I love her and all of her **** and shortcomings. I think that she is hurting a lot right now, but just can’t let me in. I don’t pry. I am a much better listener now, so the walls are coming down one brick at a time. Reflective listening is very helpful.

I think that she wants a healthy and intimate marriage with a thriving sex life, but we are so very far from that now.

We are 32 and healthy. I find my wife so hot and want to hold, kiss, touch her every day, but she is so physically cold. I don’t think that she wants to be... I’ve stopped pushing her. Most days I’ll ask for a hug and I kiss her in front of my children so that they will grow up know that I love and desire her.

Mostly I feel lost. I’ve set aside time for serious conversations lately and I’m kinda waiting to see how things change. I’ll ask something like “I’d really like to have a very honest and open conversation about our marriage on Tuesday night, will you please join me? I’d like to know your feeling on xyz” this giving her 2-3 days to be mentally and emotionally prepared rather than springing a conversation that could feel like an ambush to a distanced.

I feel like I’ve passed level 1 and I want to get to level 10+ where all of the emotional and physical/sexual intimacy is, but I don’t know what to do at levels 2,3,4...

I’m open to talking with marriage counselor, but she’s not there yet. She has agreed to listen to a marriage podcast with me, so we are doing that soon.

Please help me here to see my blind spots. Encouragement and criticism are welcome. Funny comments are very welcome.

You are all worthy of love.
-nick


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## sunsetmist (Jul 12, 2018)

Just to get started read thread: @happyhusband0005 Random Thoughts - Feel free to add your own. Pay attention to PigglyWiggly's posts #6 and 7 on using humor in marriage. You might also read up on passive-aggressive behavior. @turnera has good insight.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Stop initiating sex when she is asleep. Never do that again unless she asks you to do it, but even then only do it then if you are having a fulfilling fully awake 99% of the time sex life with her.

If that means you don’t have any sex at all, so be it. 

Seems like that should have been covered in NNMNG. Not to be sneaky about “getting sex” and to only have quality sex, solo or partnered.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

There are barriers to responding to you because as much as I would like to say, none of it matters since I have no information regarding your sex life and nothing from her point of view. For example, you want sex but my experience based on this board and in real life is that some men don't have any idea what pleases their woman or how to make love making sexually fulfilling for her. They just want sex with no idea that what feels good to them has nothing to do with what pleases her. And here you are saying you want sex. We don't know anything about that area of your marriage to be able to advise you on how to get what you want. Only your wife would be the one to tell us.

Additionally, you said she's not ready for marriage counseling, but I do think it would be a good idea for her to see a counselor on her own. Most women are unable to speak what is on their mind. It's often due to not wanting to hurt their husband's feelings, so they suffer in silence. Or they fear his reaction based on past experience, so again they suffer in silence. So suggest individual counseling to her so she has someone to talk to. A counselor can help her learn how to communicate her feelings to you and can also help prepare her to have the confidence to attend marriage counseling. The walls she has up could be due to you and something you do, don't do, or did in the past (she might be very resentful, I'm sure I would be), or it could be entirely on her part and not yours at all. She needs someone she can safely talk to and not in your presence. Convince her to go just once and if she doesn't like it, then you won't pressure her to go back.

I commend you for the changes and progress you have made but truth be told, I still find you controlling and inconsiderate, and I'm not even your wife. It seems you decided to change the dynamics of your marriage and while that is wonderful, you've also decided - FOR HER - that she will comply with your program. The changes have not been a group plan or effort. It was all yours. Again, I think it's really great that you changed your awful ways, but your wife is not your puppet or stepford property.

_Mostly I feel lost. *I’ve set aside time for serious conversations lately and I’m kinda waiting to see how things change.* I’ll ask something like “I’d really like to have a very honest and open conversation about our marriage on Tuesday night, will you please join me? I’d like to know your feeling on xyz” this giving her 2-3 days to be mentally and emotionally prepared rather than springing a conversation that could feel like an ambush to a distanced._

I don't know how to describe what this statement sounds like, but if I knew my husband to say something like this, especally given the problems/treatment I have had from him in the relatively recent past, I would conclude there is zero hope for our marriage. It sounds like you changed your methods of approach to being her husband, but you haven't changed your views at all. Whatever your way of thinking that made you think it was okay to treat your wife badly is still the way you think. Believe it or not, it remains evident in your approach even though your approach is different from before. Your statement that I quoted is entirely devoid of any consideration for your wife even though you seem to think you are being considerate. And if my husband said to me, “I’d really like to have a very honest and open conversation about our marriage on Tuesday night, will you please join me?" I would tell him, "Yeah, good luck with that."

I honestly don't know how to explain this because I find it distateful and, frankly, unbelievable. I suggest you nix attempts to talk to her about the marriage until you and she do attend marriage counseling. Please rely solely on marriage counseling and be patient for that to occur because I fear you received a suggestion from someone or read it somewhere to say this to your wife, which tells me you need to stop listening to other people and so-called expert advice. I'm sure people mean well and want to be helpful, but not all advice should be put into action, and sometimes it's hard to decipher the bad from the good. Even bad advice might sound like a good idea at the time, but you're in no position or frame of mind to really know the difference. Hopefully, she will have a good counselor and then the two of you can hopefully find a good marriage counselor. Instead of "waiting to see how things change," wait until your wife is ready. Think about her rather than what you want from her or expecting her obedience responses in your preferred direction and timeline.

In the meantime, MarriageBuilders.com is the best website for reading. If you've been there already, then I don't know how you missed so much.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

NickTheChemist said:


> I hardly have things figured out and there are still so many walls... but I am happier, even though the sex life is still about 1-2 encounters per month (initiated by me, first getting her aroused in her sleep).
> -nick


That's just plain creepy and while you may think it is progress since it is technically sex, the reality is she probably losing even more respect and attraction for you since it is pretty underhanded and exploitive and not really a consensual act based in sincere desire. 

I think a good first-step here is to stop molesting your wife in her sleep. 

Step 2 would be continued IC for you to address your individual hang ups and issues and then MC for you and your wife to address the marital and relationship issues with professional guidance.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Oh my gosh, I did a horrible job writing that it sounds super creepy—like I’m mollesting her in her sleep. That’s not it as all. 

What I mean is that if I wake before her in the morning and cuddle—not any sexual touching—then sometimes she will become aroused. Even still, I will ask her first before sexual touching. I love and respect my wife and her body.

She is very pleased when we do have sex and the pleasure is intense for her—not because of me being special, just patient, present and attentive.

I would rather focus on the emotional and self-awareness components here. I’m sure no one wants to read another complaint from a higher-drive partner. 


I feel like there are many communication, trust and respect issues to address before prioritizing the sexual component of our marriage—I believe the sexual relationship will become better as the non-sexual component becomes better.

My wife is my best friend. That’s a great starting point. She is high anxiety and tries very hard to please everyone and meet the needs of our family. You would all like her if you met her.

Her parents have a pretty crappy marriage and her mom os emotional distant. I’m not going to try to phychoanalyze my love—that is not my place. As I am learning more about healthy communication in a marriage and the obstacles that each of us bring into the situation I am trying to be aware of what can be hurtful to a person with a family of origin like my wife’s

I feel awful now learning that distancers feel inadequate when a partner does/says exactly what I have done/said for years. I was asking to be close way to much—always trying to force feelings out and talk about everything. I was often requesting physical and emotional intimacy and that, I believe, gave her a feeling of hopelessness—like she could never satisfy or be enough.. and that’s what she would say when we would fight.

I am much more attentive now and do not try to make her happy all the time or loose my spine when she is upset. I’ve stopped assuming that a bad mood means that she’s pissed at me. In fact, I am assuming the best case scenarios io and assuming that her intent is never to hurt me and that is a game-changer. I am also taking her at her word—no longer reading negative meanings into what she would say.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Thank you for your reply and advise. I have done a poor job giving background. I had conversations about all of this a year ago with my wife where I asked her how she was feeling due to my anxiously attached actions and we talked it out. Then I told her that I wanted to be a better husband to her and suggested the changes that I wanted to make and we agreed. 

We were at a place where I did not respect myself and felt that she did not respect me. 

Truly, I have attacked my own negative behaviors and she is very happy with the changes thus far.

I’m not sure where I am coming off as controlling. I am not and that is not something that I am accused of either.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Forgive me—I did a horrible job writing that—it sounds awful when reading. I would never fondle her in her sleep—that’s wrong and super creepy. That’s not it at all.

I give her shoulder, neck, back/butt massage many nights /weekend mornings. Sometimes she becomes aroused by this-when awake-and I ask her permission/ask if she wants me and state my desire for her in a living way BEFORE any sexual touching. 

I would never just start rubbing her body in a sexual way as she was sleeping. That’s awful, as and that’s pretty much what it sounded like the way I typed it at first [palm to forehead]


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

It is good that you are working on yourself. Whether or not your wife follows suit, it will be good for you to figure out your stuff and address it so you will become an authentic person.

I noticed you approached your wife about sex while she is sleeping. Do you approach her while she is awake? Are you approaching her in her sleep because you don't have fear of being rejected while she is sleeping?

She will eventually resent you if the only time you approach her for sex is basically while she is unconscious. Frequency of awake sex needs to outnumber sleep sex, IMO.


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## BigDigg (Jan 11, 2018)

What exactly is your wife doing to improve this situation? Sounds very one sided to me. Not to knock you on this progress but you've completely put her on a pedestal (my sense). There's nothing wrong with loving and adoring your wife completely but you really need to have a relationship founded on respect too for her to have the kind of attraction that you are looking for.

If she's not actively trying to save this marriage same as you...


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> Stop initiating sex when she is asleep. Never do that again unless she asks you to do it, but even then only do it then if you are having a fulfilling fully awake 99% of the time sex life with her.
> 
> If that means you don’t have any sex at all, so be it.
> 
> Seems like that should have been covered in NNMNG. Not to be sneaky about “getting sex” and to only have quality sex, solo or partnered.


I enthusiastically second this. I couldn't pay much attention to the rest of the text after reading that. It was the only thing I was going to post about, anyway. Faithful said it better than I would have, anyway.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Great comment. I love the way u state “authentic person”. 

I do request/offer sex when awake. I’m literally turned down almost every time. I know that it is stressful for her to keep saying no. I’ve stopped asking so much and rather remind her every couple of days that I am very attracted to her, that I love and respect her and that part of my showing that love is wanting to be sexually intimate with her. I want her to feel safe letting down her inhabitians and sharing the most vulnerable and intimate parts of herself. 

It’s complicated. I’ve stopped pouting or reacting negatively to her rejection & that takes a lot of self control because the constant rejection—not just for sex, but for quality time, cuddling, kissing—hurts a lot and one can feel very lonely in their marriage. I try to stay positive. My wife would not intentionally hurt me that way.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

I worded that very poorly and that is not at all what’s going on. The better way to put it is that she is responsive to non-sexual touch in the mornings on weekends and at night when laying down to sleep, and that non-sexual awake touch that begins in a sleepy state can put her in the mood 1 in 15 times, then I respond by asking if she wants sex. 
Thank you for your concern for my wife. I am not a creep—just posted without proof reeding.


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

Excellent comment. I’ve been on my own working at it for a year or more. Just now we are having productive conversations and recognizing problems.... I have no control over her involvement, nor do I want to control her in any way. 

I used to have her on a pedastool, but hardly do now. She has has been hurtful and abusive at times when I try to bring things out into the open. 

For now I am continuing to work on myself-it makes me happy-and to be the best partner that I can be.

It feels like her heart is a huge ship that takes a long, long-ass time to turn around.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

NickTheChemist said:


> Great comment. I love the way u state “authentic person”.
> 
> I do request/offer sex when awake. I’m literally turned down almost every time. I know that it is stressful for her to keep saying no. I’ve stopped asking so much and rather remind her every couple of days that I am very attracted to her, that I love and respect her and that part of my showing that love is wanting to be sexually intimate with her. I want her to feel safe letting down her inhabitians and sharing the most vulnerable and intimate parts of herself.
> 
> It’s complicated. I’ve stopped pouting or reacting negatively to her rejection & that takes a lot of self control because the constant rejection—not just for sex, but for quality time, cuddling, kissing—hurts a lot and one can feel very lonely in their marriage. I try to stay positive. My wife would not intentionally hurt me that way.


Nic, sounds like you have been really working on yourself, changing your behaviour, reading etc. Remember you can only change yourself, not her (she will have to work on herself too, go to therapy etc). You keep being the best man you can be. Never be her doormat, do not act desperately. I know sex is a big issue, but this is something she will have to come round on. You might consider going on the Marriage Course as its better than MC which tends to dig and find fault. The MC is strictly between the two of you, the facilitators wont interfere, but its a good way to take inventory and let her see what she needs to bring to the table. 
https://themarriagecourses.org/try/the-marriage-course/


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Nick, instead of taking 5 years to prepare a suitable pedestal, it would be preferable to spend some time trying to figure out WHY she is this not very responsive...


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## NickTheChemist (Apr 26, 2017)

I’m listening. Go on...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Ok...

People are generally rational beings. As such, they like maximizing reward and minimizing risk. Your partner seems to enjoy intimacy (reward) but at the same time there's some concerns that hold her back (risks).

The possible reasons are generally speaking the usual suspects: 

Family of origin - if she had a messed up upbringing, where intimacy was doled out as a control mechanism, it is reasonable to expect a repeat performance. 

Culture - some cultures tend to repress sexuality more than others

Specific negative experiences - CSA, shaming... 

Physical issues - hormone levels, other obgyn issues, medicine side effects etc...

Resentment - warranted or unwarranted.

Legit mental health issues - anything from depression to disorders and so on.

Ignorance - uncertain about marriage norms and expectations

There may be a couple of others.

Thing is, very few of those are DIY fixes. Without serious intervention from a trained counselor you aren't going to determine which one, or if it's fixable, or how it's going to be fixed.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

@NickTheChemist What is your wife's relationships like aside from you. Meaning, does she have close friends she spends time with. I have seen many marriages become stale when there is too little in the way of social lives outside of the family. I have seen this especially when kids come as they seem to lose a bit of themselves. Where I think this can cause intimacy problems is sometimes people devote too much of their identity to being a mom or dad and lose the rest. 

I know if my wife gets disconnected from her close friends and goes for a period without getting out with friends and leaving the mom side at home she becomes a little depressed. So we always make an effort to spend time with friends separately and together. 

There is so much that goes into the sexual part of a marriage especially when kids are around. And if you don't have a holistic approach that allows a happy, relaxed couple the sex will suffer. It sounds like you are working hard on what you can do on your end, I would look at other things that you can help your wife with to ensure she feels like a social, sexy lady.

Any person needs to feel wanted and desired, I think people though can feel overwhelmed by meeting their partners needs. For this to get better for you it is something that needs to happen organically.

For me here's a list of things I have done which I think have a positive impact on our sex life.

1. I never beg for sex and I never told my wife I need her to do x y and z to make me happy.

2. I stay very fit and healthy.

3. Our only religion is date night and no kids vacations, By this I mean we make these things a top priority, date night at least once a week and 1 week and multiple weekends without the kids every year.

4. I am always affectionate, this could be a quick love you text randomly, lots of hugs and kisses, the occasional butt slap things like that just so she knows even right out of bed getting the kids ready for school she is still super sexy.

5. I encourage and will even setup girls days nights so she can get out and away from being mom.

6. I signed her up for a membership with a local spa so she gets at least 2 massages a month. She finds massages very relaxing and invigorating at the same time. I even learned about massage and bought a massage table at our house so I can give her massages, I do this just like a professional massage fully draped no sexual touching, just a good massage no strings, though often by then end she is grabbing my junk. 

7. I am always very appreciative for all she does for me and our family and always remind her shes a great wife and mom. 

The list can go on but you get the idea. The most important thing is it is never about sex, so she never comes home from a girls night and hears me saying hey I let you have a night out so you owe me sex. I do these things because they make her happy, make her feel appreciated, remind her she's a sexy woman and not just a sexy mom. You need to be sure that she does not think you only care for her and feel affectionate towards her when she has sex with you. 

Eventually MC will be a good idea to help her discover or express where the coldness comes from. But keep being supportive, keep letting her see you as a husband who is most interested in her happiness and satisfaction. And also make sure you are doing things so she sees you as sexy also, dress well, be fit, be a man, be a fun, caring, happy man.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Have you asked he why she doesn't want to have sex with you?

How old are your kids? Why is she not working? Why is she not at least doing work around the house if she is not working?


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