# PMS, Control issues and No contact.....



## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

Wow, even to me that Title sounds a little melodramatic but here goes anyways.

Quick background, wife and I are both late 30's healthy, not overweight yada yada, I've been married before but it was a train wreck before it started and I was young. (there is no contact and no baggage from this before we head down that path)

Wife and I have one child thats 2ish. 
We met a few years ago, both wanted to have kids, badda bing badda boom, instant family. We have wonderfully supportive grandparents on both sides and we can drop the baby off any time for a chill out and so he can play or so we can go and do adult things. Ideally we would like another baby and were working on that. Were 100% on the same page with parenting and I'm quite happy to do the feed bath change overnight cuddle routine and love spending a day off with my little dude so we get time together and mum gets a chill out.

I'm at work 5 days, wife works 3, kid's in daycare for the 3 days and I do the drop off pick up 90% of the time. My job isn't wonderful but it's enough money to pay the bills, it's close to home and I'm away from home about 48 hours a week including travel and day care drops offs. Realistically it's ideal because I'm always there for breakfast and dinner, bath time etc etc. Wife works for the government and although there is a little stress at work it never comes home apart from some humor and she gets great perks with sick days, holidays and that type of crap. I luckily only have humor, no stress at work.

When we met I was part time professional athlete, part time worker, sport has completely gone by the wayside to allow me family time and obviously a proper "job". I don't have any hang ups with this and much prefer the time with my little man to constant training but I know my priorities and outlook has changed a little.

We've moved into an inner city location and I'm 60 odd miles from most of my old friends, again not a biggy for me, we catch up when we can. 

OK, so the issues :

Wife gets horrible and I mean mass murderer blood red eyes horrible PMS. There is nothing rational or normal about her for 36-48 hours probably 7 out of 8 cycles. She of course thinks she's a little bit funny, but it's "normal" and if the issue is discussed 3 days later "oh I did not do that!" , yeah you did and this, this and that. From about a week out you can see it building up and I'm powerless to stop it, something I did 3 weeks earlier will end in slammed doors and a 4 hour argument. She tries to get more and more done each day and by the time she's a week or so from her period, watch out! I try and keep on top of the household jobs, I do 10-15 loads of dishes a week, am on a 1st name basis with the washer, can make a bed, work the dryer, the stove and kitchen bench are some of my best friends. She however will vacuum 3-4 times a week, wipe up the kitchen 6 times a day and pack up after the baby constantly.....were display home perfect. And we have a cleaner in once a week!

Were trying to have a baby. Were both on the same page here, but she seems to think 2 well timed quickies a month is "trying". I need to insist we do it, or it will not even enter her mind and another month would go by. Away from those 2 quickies we are basically no contact. A cordial hug or kiss is it, they are never more than half a second or so. Anything further is greeted with a "not now" or "you always pick the wrong time", I've asked when a good time is and I get a throw away "well not now!". After our 2 quickies I'll suggest we should try and keep it up until next month and the best answer so far "just go with the flow" which means leave me alone for 26 days.

She has obvious control issues though. Simple jobs require immense planning, tons or research and even then no decision is made. 1000 times I've been given the "FFS, just decide" or "man up and do something!" Now I've been a complete decision maker for 30 something years and have no problem with it, unless every decision is then undermined and overruled.
Imagine going to do the weekly shop and then being sent back to the supermarket to return 6 or 7 items because the dish washing liquid is the wrong brand and the tissue box is the wrong design. Left to it, I'm decisive and pretty constructive with 99% of my efforts but the hole just gets deeper and deeper. I know she is sick of making ALL the decisions and doing everything but she will never be satisfied unless it is done her way and on her time frame. Recently we did some landscaping and I took a couple of days off work to get it all done. 1 1/2 days in, work has to stop because we had to investigate appropriate ground covers. 6 weeks later I was allowed to finish once we'd been cross town 4 or 5 times to look at options. We settled on my original choice. :scratchhead:

So ladies, help me out here. I've tried the dominant, "we will do it this way" approach and she holds on too tight, I've tried the "well let's do it your way" and that just exhausts her.

I know she wants me to lead and make decisions and do all the manly crap, but my hands are tied unless I completely understand her thought process at every precise second and completely submit to her thoughts and time frame.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Has she always been like this or did it start or worsen after she had a baby?


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Does your wife have any health issues besides the PMS?
Like, asthma, sweating, bitter taste in mouth, stomach ache...
I think it's worth getting tested for adrenal function, hormone level, thyroid and allergies. The reason I say this is that allergies can cause people to go nuts. The histamine response is like being on speed. And what happens to your brain is that it ruins the ability to make decisions. Because of this there is a rigidness to every day life, it is easier to have rules and follow them than to have to think on the fly when your brain is being subject to the allergic response. Allergies get worse during the menstrual cycle because the body does recognize the different hormones as 'foreign' to some extent. After a pregnancy, more so, because those hormones haven't been around for a long while, longer still if she's been nursing or pumping for the child. And, allergies do get worse over time. 

Why do I think this is a health issue? Because you said your W works for the government and has been there long term. Successfully. This is no small feat. It is not really something a nutso insane crazy person would be able to pull off without some heavy medication. 

I'd go to a doctor and investiage all of the obvious suspects. Especially allergies and hormone function.

Tissue boxes are soooo ugly, it is difficult to find a good looking design, and then they keep changing them!


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> Has she always been like this or did it start or worsen after she had a baby?


Ah, good point.

She's always been clean and tidy (we both have), she had PND from being away from her friends and family a bit but that pretty much resolved itself when we moved before the baby was 12 months old.

She's just getting worse and worse each month though.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

How do _you _respond when she "holds on too tight" to the control?

Do you retreat or do you push back at her?


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Does your wife have any health issues besides the PMS?
> Like, asthma, sweating, bitter taste in mouth, stomach ache...
> I think it's worth getting tested for adrenal function, hormone level, thyroid and allergies. The reason I say this is that allergies can cause people to go nuts. The histamine response is like being on speed. And what happens to your brain is that it ruins the ability to make decisions. Because of this there is a rigidness to every day life, it is easier to have rules and follow them than to have to think on the fly when your brain is being subject to the allergic response. Allergies get worse during the menstrual cycle because the body does recognize the different hormones as 'foreign' to some extent. After a pregnancy, more so, because those hormones haven't been around for a long while, longer still if she's been nursing or pumping for the child. And, allergies do get worse over time.
> 
> ...


We've actually been down that path a bit. She was lacking in X vitamin (don't remember) and a couple of times she made reference to have bad PMS years ago, and she said she just changed BC pills and it went away.

I'm trying to get her to make another appointment to look at the sex/ hormone issues because obviously no sex = no baby. She will get to it in her own time.......


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm a former control freak with wicked pms. In short I was certifiably crazy.

Things that fixed it health wise. Got off all hormones (birth control was making me nuts). Ate clean (no sugar, no caffeine, no white flour, low carb). During my diet experiment I found that aspartame was my biggest culprit. Even consumed in moderation it made me crazy again. I now will have sugar in moderation but I have to really watch my moods. You'd have to hold a gun to my head to get me to consume artificial sweetners again (splenda and stevia are the ones I can handle).

For PMS I eat low fat and lots of fruits and vegetables. I take Black Cohosh daily and I have a anti-depressant for the really crazy days. I only take 1/2 a pill as needed. I also like 5-htp for anxiety.

On top of all this I go to therapy every other week to work on lifestyle changes and learning how to reduce stress.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

MGirl said:


> How do _you _respond when she "holds on too tight" to the control?
> 
> Do you retreat or do you push back at her?


I've tried both.......

Depending upon the situation there is no progress though. It seems that if I make the decision, its wrong and if I don't make the decision and retreat the decision isn't made and she feels stressed by having to make it down the track.

I'm happy to "discuss" options but everything is a horribly drawn out process we don't always have time for.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hello Hubby ~

Well, there was quite a list of issues. Let's start with the PMS issues. If your wife is in her upper 30's she is likely to start to having those wonderful hormone swings associated with perimenopause. That usually starts in the mid 30's and lasts until women hit menopause around age 51. It can make any PMS symptoms a woman has that much worse. She should go to her ob/gyn for a check up and discuss the symptoms that she has. Here is a recent thread from the Ladies' Lounge about PMS:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/26765-about-pms.html

There are often things that can be done to help it. As well, taking care of oneself - exercising, eating right, taking vitamins, reducing stress - can help alleviate some of those symptoms as well. She may be interested in a site like the following:

Perimenopause symptoms and understanding signs of hormonal change

There are also lots and lots of good books on the subject - here is one:

Amazon.com: What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About(TM): Premenopause: Balance Your Hormones and Your Life from Thirty to Fifty (9780446615396): John R. Lee, Jesse Hanley, Virginia Hopkins: Books

Your wife sounds a bit obsessive about things. Does she have OCD? Has she always been that way?

As far as the too little sex situation, well, it's obvious she is not prioritizing or understanding your needs in that department. That one is tougher because a lot of times women get either so overwhelmed, stressed out, or don't get their emotional needs met by their husband so they just lose attraction. A woman has so much less testosterone naturally in her body compared to a man's, so it's not atypical for her drive to fluctuate much more than a mans. And for many women their emotional state has a huge influence on their drives as well. Does your wife ever make mention of things that she wishes you would do for her? Do you think you meet her emotional needs? Do you know what those are?

If I were you, I would continue to 'man up' and be the head of the household. I always think it should be kind of like Cpt Picard on Star Trek:The Next Generation. He always asks "suggestions anyone?", everybody can provide comment, then he makes the final decision.

God Bless.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

and it's always something small that brings it all crashing down.

She had been into me for a couple of days about working too much and not cooking enough. Of course, I have a day off, I'm happy to cook, walk into the lounge, "we're having XYZ for dinner and I'm going to make a salad" (it wasn't a question) response: "I had salad yesterday, I'll make some roast vegetables" I said something like "no worries, I'll get them" and heard for the next 2 hours about how I won't do it right, while they were cooking I was doing it wrong and they were served incorrectly. Yet, had she done it, I never cook and she has to do it all.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

Until you can fully understand (and fix) the chaos that is in her brain discussing anything with her won't make any sense. Nothing is rational when you are in that crazy place called PMS.

She might also be perimenopausal. It can start in your 30's.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Never mind about a new baby. She should be in good health so you two can enjoy the one you have. If it is getting worse every month that is a serious issue. If it is allergies even an auto-immune allergy, it can start to really snowball. I don't want to frighten you but last spring and the spring before, when I had allergies, my sinuses along side my brain got filled with fluid. When the brain gets squished all kinds of weird things happen. The amygdala likes its space, as does the brain stem where all the hormones are made. I never had the sniffles. Don't be fooled thinking an allergic reaction is all about sneezing. It's not. 

Anyway, a worsening condition is cause for alarm. If she has any health issue, you want to have it absolutely under control before pregnancy. 

I really think this is probably a health issue and not a behavioral one...but obviously it is a huge issue. Even when I was having my brain squished I didn't want to be with me. Since I've had my allergies under control I have no weird PMS-like symptoms. Of course, I had therapy too, to cover all the bases, but allergies mimic an anxiety state. Then once you get there, you get anxious, because doing all the things a person would normally do if you are stressed, doesn't work! And then people blame the anxiety on new motherhood, govt job, and it makes you more anxious because you know you feel like cr*p only everyone thinks you're nuts instead. Argh.

I wonder if your W would go to the doctor sooner than later if she knew you thought she might have a serious condition other than PMS or hormones (maybe misinterpreted as a euphemism for PMS). Something like allergies or adrenal malfunction... that wouldn't result in someone saying to her .... here take this mood-altering drug or hormone tablet and see how it works for you. 

As a woman, getting serious and sincere health care is a huge hassle. Especially in the working and mothering years. Everything and anything is blamed on anxiety or straight-up hormone fluctuations.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> If I were you, I would continue to 'man up' and be the head of the household. I always think it should be kind of like Cpt Picard on Star Trek:The Next Generation. He always asks "suggestions anyone?", everybody can provide comment, then he makes the final decision.


This make me laugh because I was a star trek fan and I've seen the reference at various placed on line.

I can't help but feel that when I have my Picard moments, Q (a god like alien with crap loads of power etc) will appear and rake me over the coals about it and provide a comment like "you puny humans think you're all powerful, but you do not understand the universe in the slightest" and then send my 40,000 light years from where I started.


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## MGirl (Mar 13, 2011)

Hubby01 said:


> and it's always something small that brings it all crashing down.
> 
> She had been into me for a couple of days about working too much and not cooking enough. Of course, I have a day off, I'm happy to cook, walk into the lounge, "we're having XYZ for dinner and I'm going to make a salad" (it wasn't a question) response: "I had salad yesterday, I'll make some roast vegetables" I said something like "no worries, I'll get them" and heard for the next 2 hours about how I won't do it right, while they were cooking I was doing it wrong and they were served incorrectly. Yet, had she done it, I never cook and she has to do it all.


Ah. Got it. This is what I was looking for. 

Let me try again, I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough earlier. 

How did you respond when she complained for 2 hours, then complained that you served them incorrectly? What did you say or do?


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hubby01 said:


> and it's always something small that brings it all crashing down.
> 
> She had been into me for a couple of days about working too much and not cooking enough. Of course, I have a day off, I'm happy to cook, walk into the lounge, "we're having XYZ for dinner and I'm going to make a salad" (it wasn't a question) response: "I had salad yesterday, I'll make some roast vegetables" I said something like "no worries, I'll get them" and heard for the next 2 hours about how I won't do it right, while they were cooking I was doing it wrong and they were served incorrectly. Yet, had she done it, I never cook and she has to do it all.


Well, it sounds like she's doing what the guys over in the Men's Clubhouse would say are sh!t tests or fitness tests. Maybe one of them can chime in here to give you some guidance. The sticky at the top of the Men's Clubhouse contains a lot of links to various topics and the first one is fitness tests.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Hubby01 said:


> This make me laugh because I was a star trek fan and I've seen the reference at various placed on line.
> 
> I can't help but feel that when I have my Picard moments, Q (a god like alien with crap loads of power etc) will appear and rake me over the coals about it and provide a comment like "you puny humans think you're all powerful, but you do not understand the universe in the slightest" and then send my 40,000 light years from where I started.


Picard never really lost his cool though, even when he was up against a crazy egomaniac like Q or getting assimilated by the Borg. There's a good lesson there.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

MGirl said:


> Ah. Got it. This is what I was looking for.
> 
> Let me try again, I'm sorry, I didn't make myself clear enough earlier.
> 
> How did you respond when she complained for 2 hours, then complained that you served them incorrectly? What did you say or do?


I don't remember in this particular case. I know I served up the dinner (I know mine tasted fantastic). I'm thinking she pretty much shut up because I was outside with the grill and she was watching TV. She ate the dinner but left a few of the veggies without comment.

I know earlier she asked if they were in water (I'd cut them up a few hours before cooking) and I shot back "yes dear, they're in water" with an attitude matching hers and normally if she questions something like that eg as they're cooking I'll offer a "I'm sure they will be fine" or a "would you prefer to do them yourself?"


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> Well, it sounds like she's doing what the guys over in the Men's Clubhouse would say are sh!t tests or fitness tests. Maybe one of them can chime in here to give you some guidance. The sticky at the top of the Men's Clubhouse contains a lot of links to various topics and the first one is fitness tests.
> 
> http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


I'm still wondering about her motives here. I clearly understand the fitness test and it's role in a marriage, it's just this doesn't seem like a test. I think a test implies there is a potential answer and I don't see an answer in her tests.

99.9% of the time I maintain good humor and a positive outlook but it gets so tiring and I'm closer and closer to biting back very very hard.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

Sitting here pondering for a couple of hours if she is testing I'm wondering what she's actually looking for.

Lets say I step up, lead, make decisions and so on and she still doesn't like them, It's yet another conflict. I try and keep on top of the household jobs like I've said but unless they're perfect its another conflict. I do nothing (or actually less) and she exhausts herself doing it anyway.

It feels the bar has been set so ridiculously high I will never reach that point and she will prioritize everything including her health and relationships below the clean organized life she so desperately wants.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

It doesn't matter if its a test or a medical issue either way you need to set some healthy boundaries with her.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

magnoliagal said:


> It doesn't matter if its a test or a medical issue either way you need to set some healthy boundaries with her.


Before I'm outta here.

Say I set a healthy boundary? or even more to the point what is a healthy boundary?

Let's take the vegetable thing. I 100% believe it's appropriate to say, "look babe, I'm making dinner and I'll take care of the vegetables" in my mind it's a reasonable statement of ownership of the job.

Although she didn't this time, say she chooses to completely ignore my request? what then? Say I'm off to work and indicate I'll do a job when I get home and she's already done it? I know in 3 days time I will hear about going to work and not doing whatever it was.

I need a reaction when she chooses to ignore me, but where do I find one? Can't withhold sex, she doesn't want it, can't pull the "I'm not going to do X", she's happier doing it herself. Without creating World War 3 and possibly 4 I can't see a small (appropriate) reaction which will have any real effect.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

This goes far beyond the normal forum chitchat self help let's play mind games about mind games bull****. Your wife is struggling with a chronic personality disorder of some type. My own personal experience of living with a clinically narcissist paranoid with OCD type anxiety compulsions and abject terror of the slightest change in normal routine that results in angry outbursts and self pitying manipulation and false victim-hood leads me to say that. I am married to a woman who in all honesty once blurted out I needed to get her permission to go to the bathroom.


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## Mephisto (Feb 20, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> This goes far beyond the normal forum chitchat self help let's play mind games about mind games bull****. Your wife is struggling with a chronic personality disorder of some type. My own personal experience of living with a clinically narcissist paranoid with OCD type anxiety compulsions and abject terror of the slightest change in normal routine that results in angry outbursts and self pitying manipulation and false victim-hood leads me to say that. I am married to a woman who in all honesty once blurted out I needed to get her permission to go to the bathroom.


Been reading your posts for a while now RLD, and as much as I find you highly amusing, intelligent and generally to the point, and think you would be an interesting guy to share a few beers with, I really have to ask, why do you stay with this woman?


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh I'm sure I'm no day at the beach either. In fact I believe I'm so messed up that I would wreck any normal relationship with anyone just this side of insane, anyway. That's not really an answer, none the less, at its core, I stay because I can't see any better options.


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## magnoliagal (Mar 30, 2011)

I agree with Runs that your wife suffers from some personality disorder or medical condition if she refuses to seek help I think you need to try and protect yourself. I hate to be a downer but you are not going to win with her. I believe she's got a problem that is unfixable by you. Your best bet it to learn how to survive or leave. She sounds toxic to me. 

<<<< ducking now.


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

I think more than anything there is just a very skewed perception of normal in her brain. 

By her logic, I am an alcoholic. (Bear in mind I work in the industry and get enough free booze for 10 men) I have one or two drinks a night most nights. If we go out quite often I'll drive, I can flat out say I have not been drunk in 2 years. I'm not a beer drinker so normally its a bourbon or a liqueur and apparently that makes it worse. I'm also not one to overdo the amount that goes into each drink.

In her mind everyone lives in a display home. Children clean up their own mess and there is no excuse for toys, clothes or anything to be left out of place........unless of course, she left them there. I once asked her to name anyone who's house is as spotless as ours, she said "everyone's" and when pressed for a name she gave me a 60yo retired couple that has never had kids!

I don't think she's specifically OCD but is just completely anal and unable to respect my position on "normal"


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## Hubby01 (Jul 5, 2011)

I thought I would add something to this thread rather than starting a new one to give some perspective.

We had brunch with some friends over the weekend and my wife specifically highlighted a loosely termed friend of hers on the way there. We spent an hour or so in the car and to almost the point of my embarrassment she made this poor woman out to be the worst friend/ wife mother you have ever seen. By the time we got there I'd kind of switched off and managed to forget this particular woman's name.

I had a great time, played with the kids etc etc and several hours later we're in the car coming home and the second the door closes I hear.....

"oh my god, how bad was X, she just never stops, did you hear how she talked to her husband, I don't know how he tolerates it....blah blah blah"

Turns out I was sitting directly opposite her at the table and noticed that her and my wife share the same vocabulary, wording and sense of hatred for anything that doesn't go their way. It took me until 1/2 way through to realize this was who we were talking about 

When I suggested to my wife that this was the case you should have heard it........the rant took 45 minutes to die down, I sat and listened my way through traffic. She eventually finished and I said "the defense rests"

Sisters separated at birth perhaps.......


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## Lea2407 (Jul 14, 2011)

> I thought I would add something to this thread rather than starting a new one to give some perspective.
> 
> We had brunch with some friends over the weekend and my wife specifically highlighted a loosely termed friend of hers on the way there. We spent an hour or so in the car and to almost the point of my embarrassment she made this poor woman out to be the worst friend/ wife mother you have ever seen. By the time we got there I'd kind of switched off and managed to forget this particular woman's name.
> 
> ...


:rofl: I think it's hilarious when two people are so alike and can't see it. My mom and sister are practically identical, but all they can do is complain about each other, and most of the time the complaints are on things that they do their self as well. It's funny sometimes, but most of the time you're just looking at the person like, "How do you not see that you're actually the same person? You're practically complaining about yourself!" What's even worse is that my sister's husband gets so annoyed and irritated over my mom, but doesn't seem to realize that his wife is the same way. I think he's in a deep stage of denial. I don't really want to be around when he finally realizes that he might as well be married to his mother in law.

Anyway, it sounds to me like your wife could use some therapy. If she's not being rational, there's nothing you can do to make her happy. However, knowing this can actually give you some freedom. Stop worrying about making her happy, and just keep doing what you're doing. You don't sound like you're going out of your way to make her angry or upset her. You're trying your best, and that's all you can do. If she doesn't like what you're doing or how you're doing it, oh well. What is she really going to do about it, besides b*tch about it?


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