# Wife Cheated with a Pro Hockey Player



## ZeekZealand

My son plays for a hockey team that happens to practice in the same arena where the Dallas Stars do... A 3rd rate player offered to give my son private lessons for free to get to my wife. They had an affair for 4 months and I just found out a week ago.

I honestly equate this pain to if one of my children died. I've never experienced anything like this.

I have 5 children, all under 15 and all with her. We've been married for 15 years and I never even considered anything was wrong.

I know it is over because I called the guy and actually made friends with him to get the answers I wanted.

Now here's the kicker. My wife has a panic disorder and for years I've given way more than the average husband in terms of emotional support, driving her everywhere, accepting her illness and doing everything I could to make her feel better. I would always tell myself when she didn't want me to leave to have a drink with a friend, work late, or really anything that it's for a higher purpose and I just plain felt sorry for her because I knew she was dealing with panic issues all the time.

Now I feel so damn betrayed because of all that I gave up for her disorder. I'm so broken but I have to put on a front for my kids.

Add to this whole thing that 3 weeks ago we found out my youngest son has Autism and after she was dumped by her affair she used that and also said I abused her to to try to get him back.

Everyone keeps saying that I should try to work it out but I don't f**king want to. I'm living with her now and she feels horrible and cries a lot about it but I was faithful as a saint for 15 years, why the hell should I ever trust her again?

I'm so confused and I don't want to hurt my kids... I just don't know what the hell to do...


----------



## Entropy3000

Nothing but tragic Zach.


----------



## warlock07

Whatever it is don't make any major and emotional decisions until the anger subsides. 

But if you don't want to work it out, don't work it out. Only you know the resentment you feel and things you gave up and sacrificed for her for her. Your wife is manipulative on so many levels. 



> after she was dumped by her affair she used that and also said I abused her to to try to get him back.


That is messed up on so many levels. How can you trust this person again? Are you sure this is the first affair that she had?

If you want to work it for the kids, remember that "they would rather be from a broken family than a broken home". 

Things you might want to consider are
How did you find out? How much did she lie to cover it up? Is she feeling bad because of the affair or because she was caught. Did she confess? How is she reacting to whole thing? How did it end?

These things might help you give better perspective of the situation.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Thank you for those kind words...

I found out when we were in an argument in the car and I told her that a woman from work asked me out. Her response was "you have no idea.." After I got to work I started to think about that response and then put 2 and 20 together.

She lied to cover it up by telling me she was seeing a psychiatrist for her Bulimia at night, asking me to work late, and then picking me up from work at 9 or 10. (between cars) I'd ask how her session went and she was so specific about it. So she essentially played on my care and love for her while I sat at work wishing to God I was at home. 

She feels bad that it happen. I exposed her and him and basically out of anger worked on getting him fired enough to where he called me and begged me to stop. 

She did confess when I really pushed the issue. She's reacting by doing nothing different, but she sure says she's sorry... But she doesn't act sorry at all.

It ended because she freaked out on the guy and started texting and calling him like a crazy woman and he ended it.

I want to leave but my kids would be so hurt....


----------



## ZeekZealand

God just reading what I've written makes me so sick. I think I'm going to divorce her. She's mentally ill and I don't want to take care of her any more. She's screwed me up so much I feel guiltier than she does about the affair she had... Geez what a waste of 15 years. I'm just so grateful for my incredible children.


----------



## Bugz Bunny

First its not your fault,and she hurt your children and destroyed your family and not you...Just file for divorce so that she knows that you are serious (if things get better you always can stop the divorce if you want)and let her repair and work on the marriage...

As for the POSOM I hope that he is fired because he must feel consequences for his actions (he knew that she is married and he used your child to get to her and destroy your family)...


----------



## sadcalifornian

She is a high maintance wife with mental issues. Now that she adds promiscuity to her list, she just ain't worth it anymore. This pretty much sums it up, no? 

Your relationship with her was already strained due to her needs. Because you have been such a loving and dedicated H, you never let it get to you, but the strain has been there under the surface. Hence, with her affair thrown in the mix, you may be better off divorcing her.

She will continue needing your supports for her ailments, and with this resentment from her A, I don't think you will find the strength and motivation to keep doing it.


----------



## ZeekZealand

sadcalifornian said:


> She is a high maintance wife with mental issues. Now that she adds promiscuity to her list, she just ain't worth it anymore. This pretty much sums it up, no?
> 
> Your relationship with her was already strained due to her needs. Because you have been such a loving and dedicated H, you never let it get to you, but the strain has been there under the surface. Hence, with her affair thrown in the mix, you may be better off divorcing her.
> 
> She will continue needing your supports for her ailments, and with this resentment from her A, I don't think you will find the strength and motivation to keep doing it.


Yep, that pretty much sums it up alright... Just have to get through the bullet hole in my heart and the rip in my soul.


----------



## aug

First, get yourself check for the full panel of STDs. And the wife also in case she caught HepC, HIV, etc.

Dont have sex with her till you know for sure she's not pregnant. And then, ask yourself if you really want to now that she has shown you have been relegated to being the backup and financial supporter.

Expose the other man to his wife or girlfriend. This you should do out of fairness to his wife.

Start protecting your assets. Cancel any joint bank accounts or credit cards.

Read about "letting her go" and the 180.

Note that the 180 is for you only and for your mental health and strength as you continue to encounter emotional and family turmoil.

Realize you got to stop being a "nice" guy. And stop treating your wife so nice -- she took advantage of your compassion and fu(ked another man. You are actually, if you really think about it, enabling her to have the affair.

Realize that any problems in a marriage can be shared 50/50. BUT an affair is always 100% the cheating spouse's fault.

Dont worry about the kids. They will survive if they know that one of their parents actually have the courage to stand up for ethical behavior. And that you loved them and have self-respect. Know that they are actually better off living with 1 parent than 2 with constant fights or apathy.

Your wife obviously did not care about the effect that an affair would have on the children.

By the way, she does not appear to be remorseful. It's too early to reconcile. In fact, you may want to seriously consider divorce.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Your wife is not remorseful until she is and does everything she can your marriage will remain dead. Your wife is to secure and thinks you will not leave her and the marriage carries on as it was; it does not, this is a new marriage and if both of youbdont work at it you may as well divorse .

It's to early to make a major decision , there are some steps to be taken . You said you exposed , have you told your children the truth it is important they understand why there are issues in the house. Do not gloss over her affair when you speak to them and emphasise that you love them, will be there for them , expain what is happening is not their fault.

Your wife hand writes a no contact letter to the OM , this is as much for you and a tangable step for her to show she is working on the marriage .

No Contact Letter

She gives you full transparency , all passwords, her whereabouts , her mail accounts etc.

She answers any question you ask no matter how many times you ask.

She is never to be alone or in contact with any man you do not approve of.

Explain these to your wife, mentioning these are steps designed and supported by trained marriage physiologists. Give her the book "his needs her needs " by W Harley . Read it as well there are pointers therein that will help both of you.

If she declines any of these she is not serious about recovery , then you change gear and focus on you . 

There is what is called a 180 that is used if one of the spouses is still in the affair, much of it can be used on waywards who are unwilling to commit to true marriage recovery :

WARNING: The 180 is NOT a manipulation tool to make your spouse end his/her affair and commit to do the work of marital recovery, IT IS an emotional empowerment tool to help you become emotionally strong so that you can move on with your life - with or without your spouse. No one wants to be perceived as pathetic. 180 makes you look strong. Strong is attractive.

1. Don't pursue reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Don't point out "good points" in marriage.
4. Don't follow her/him around the house.
5. Don't encourage or initiate discussion about the future.
6. Don't ask for help from the family members of your WS.
7. Don't ask for reassurances.
8. Don't buy or give gifts.
9. Don't schedule dates together.
10. Don't keep saying, "I Love You!" Because if you have a brain in your head, he/she is at this particular moment, not very loveable.
11. Do more then act as if you are moving on with your life; begin moving on with your life!
12. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and independent.
13. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go out with friends, enjoy old hobbies, find new ones! But stay busy!
14. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. Don't push any issue? No matter how much you want to!
15. If you're in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. Seem totally uninterested.
16. Your partner needs to believe that you have awakened to the fact that "they (the WS)" are serious concerning their assertions as to the future (or lack thee of) of your marriage. Thus, you are you are moving on with your life? with out them!
17. Don't be nasty, angry or even cold - Just pull yourself back. Don't always be so available? for anything! Your spouse will notice. More important, he/she will notice that you're missing.
18. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment? Make yourself be someone they would want to be around. Not a moody, needy, pathetic individual but a self assured individual secure in the knowledge that they have value.
19. All questions about the marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may not be for quite a while). Initiate no such conversation!
20. Do not allow yourself to lose your temper. No yelling, screaming or name calling EVER. No show of temper! Be cool, act cool; be in control of the only thing you can control? YOURSELF!
21. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
22. Do not argue when they tell you how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger). In fact, refuse to argue at all!
23. Be patient and learn to not only listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you? HEAR what it is that they are saying! Listen and then listen some more!
24. Learn to back off, keep your mouth shut and walk away when you want to speak out, no matter what the provocation. No one ever got themselves into trouble by just not saying anything.
25. Take care of you. Exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil.
26. Be strong, confident and learn to speak softly.
27. Know that if you can do this 180, your smallest CONSISTENT action will be noticed far more than any words you can say or write.
28. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are feeling totally desperate and needy.
29. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. It's not always about you! More to the point, at present they just don't care!
30. Do not believe any of what you hear them say and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives and do so in the most strident tones imaginable. Try to remember that they are also hurting and afraid. Try to remember that they know what they are doing is wrong and so they will say anything they can to justify their behavior.
31. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. It "ain't over till it's over!"
32. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. Remain consistent! It is the consistency of action and attitude that delivers the message.
33. When expressing your dissatisfaction with the actions of the wayward party, never be judgmental, critical or express moral outrage. Always explain that your dissatisfaction is due to the pain that the acts being committed are causing you as a person. This is the kind of behavior that will cause you to be a much more attractive and mysterious individual. Further it SHOWS that you are NOT afraid to move on with your life. Still more important, it will burst their positive little bubble; the one in which they believe that they can always come back to you in case things don't work out with the OM/OW.

The emphasis is this is for you to gain control of you, she will either change and commit fully to the marriage or you will be making decisions and plans that do not involve her.

You are often advised to go to MC , many MC's have poor skills in helping marriages recover. Do not go with your wife to one until you know they are pro marriage and have a plan that you are comfortable with, you are not going to MC for her to find excuses to blame you. The affair is 100% her doing the marriage is a 50/50 issue. Don't let them muddy the waters , your focus at this stage is to ensure she is out of the affair , mentally and emotionally and committed to marriage recovery.

Lastly she has an STD test , no excuses .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Create a plan for yourself , write it down and follow it . (notice the advice is similar across the responses you are getting, we are not making this up ourselves but drawing on a large pool of resources and experience)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## omega

Wow. We see a lot on these boards but this is one of the coldest. If you don't want to work it out, you have absolutely no obligation to do so. She made the choice to do what she did. If she was unhappy in the marriage, she should have communicated that to you. If she felt that she "needed" to be with that guy, she should have divorced you to do so. There is absolutely no excuse for her behavior and you don't have to forgive her. Only if you truly want to and feel forgiveness towards her. But reading this makes me angry on your behalf.

If she wants to reconcile with you, she needs to be doing EVERYTHING possible to show you that she is sorry - not just saying the words. Has she given you access to ALL her accounts / passwords, etc? Has she written and sent a letter of no contact to the hockey player? 

Your children will be better off if you don't drag things out too long. Especially the boy with autism. I used to teach children with autism, and the ones who were in bad family situations struggled a great deal more than usual. Children with autism are very sensitive to "mood" (despite what most people think, most people assume that people with autism can't detect others' emotions at all - this is not true, they are quite sensitive to the mood) and disruption/insecurity at home as well. The sooner you settle things and get a routine going, the better for him. That said, don't rush through things - acting on anger could mean regret later on.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. What a heartbreaking place to be.


----------



## MrK

Yeah. This is bad. Start protecting yourself. And I can't BELIEVE there's not someone out there, media outlet (?), that would love to hear how a roll model for kids abused that trust to get into your wife's pants? He needs to be exposed. Not just to his wife and girlfriend but to the local media. He is scum. Your wife is damaged in multiple ways.

How do you think she talks about this affair with her friends? A professional hockey player wanted HER!! How exciting.


----------



## Initfortheduration

She'll put you in an early grave if you stay. A frigging succubus.


----------



## Deejo

Very, very sorry for your circumstances. You summed up what I feel is the most insidious part of an affair; the lies they tell ... simply because they know you love and trust them. 

They use them as a weapon to deceive, or even worse, when you begin to suspect ... they spin it as they cannot believe that you don't trust them. It is truly vicious.

Take care of yourself, and your children.

For all of the concern we have about our kids, I will also tell you this; kids are extraordinarily resilient. They will get through it. They will get through it even better if you continue to be steadfast and loving.

If it is eating away at you, I'd strongly urge you to consider therapy.

Plenty of resources here.

Welcome, and again, my condolences.


----------



## Shaggy

Cut her off and out of your life.

She demands you walk the extra mile to deal with all her mental issues and demands, and the way she pays back you love to is to cheat.

Not only that, but she totally threw herself at the guy and it sounds like she wanted to put all her love and effort into him.

Notice how her fears and problems went away for him? You have to walk those extra miles for him - but for him, all he had to do was take her.

She has no remorse at all for her actions - only that she got dumped by him. It's also the only reason it ended - if she hadn't been acting crazy and too clingy, she would have kept it up until he would take her in. 

She would have, and likely planned, on leaving you for him.

He dumped her - and now - gee - she feels bad and wants the marriage and her slave to her issues (you) back.

I'm very pro marriage. I'm very pro family. In a case with someone like her, my advice is to use this opportunity where she has blatantly shown her true selfish colors and divorce her.

Oh, btw - now that she's found on guy who she can do this with - what do you want to be it's going to happen again?

She's got a ton of issues - so use that to get primary custody of the kids.

Oh, and go back and get the jerk fired. He is using his official position to prey upon married women. Way not ok - getting him fired may save other marriages from scum like him.


----------



## Shaggy

One more thing - since he started this affair by using his position as a coach - you might be able to sue him and the organization.

Talk to a lawyer about that. You might be able to get some serious money that can be put aside for your kids college fund.


----------



## bryanp

She certainly sounds like she is sorry.......sorry for getting caught. This hockey player has probably had lots of women so as someone previously said: the both of you must get checked for STD's.

See a lawyer to understand your options. Good luck.


----------



## ZeekZealand

I cannot express how much better I feel today after reading these responses. THANK you ALL from the bottom of my heart for validating my feelings. I cry as I write. Thank you all so so much.


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

omega said:


> Wow. We see a lot on these boards but this is one of the coldest


I agree, this is at the top of the heart wrenching scale... I can't impress on you how many stories I read about infidelity. This one elicits real anger and deep hurt from me when I read it. This is nauseating. I am truly disgusted and very sorry for what has been done to you. 

You have gotten tremendous advice already, including what Omega said from the post I'm quoting above. I won't bother repeating what's been given. I only wish you the strength and resolve to act on the advice given. 

But, Please do not fall into the trap of being "understanding" of why she did this... She will pour on the guilt, lies and will do everything in her considerable power to manipulate you... There is no understanding this, it is what it is. Horrible malicious betrayal. The act of a selfish, sick and pathetic shadow of a women.

I feel ill.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ZeekZealand

I have another related question. I have a 15 year old daughter who I believe would benefit greatly from a forum like this. Do any of you know of a good forum she could also express her feelings in? I'm not any happier but this thread, you people, have made me feel so much better that I actually smiled today.... And that's saying a lot - I can assure you.


----------



## Yardman

bryanp said:


> She certainly sounds like she is sorry.......sorry for getting caught. This hockey player has probably had lots of women so as someone previously said: the both of you must get checked for STD's.
> 
> See a lawyer to understand your options. Good luck.



:iagree:
Sounds like is only sorry the OM dumped her.


Zeek, I don't know of any such forums for the under 18/non-adult crowd.


----------



## Dadof3

I'd be for dumping her sh*t on the lawn, parking a Uhaul in the drive way, and changing the locks when she's out of the home for a bit. When she comes back, there is a type written notice of intent to divorce and keys to the uhaul for her. No one answers the door.


----------



## calif_hope

Zeek,
Their are several web sites that are set up that are suppose to be for kids with issues, KEEP YOUR DAUGHTER OFF THEM, they are havens for sickos and creaps with little monitoring. Kids have been cyber bullied, advised to cut themselves (their is a web page that coaches how to do this), to commit suicide, or to meet-up for a 'loving and supportive experience.

I suggest you monitor her Internet usage, FB etc., lots of suggestions how to do that on TAM.

Keep yourself available to her, make time to go out on outings with your daughter!

Talk to her school, they may have resources or your county mental health department, most United Ways have a resouce referal program. I would guarantee their are professionally monitored peer groups and help available within a 30 mile drive unless you live out in the boondocks.

The may refer you to a online program which is what you asked about but these are only available by professional referral, and are heavily monitored with a trained adult online 24/7.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## calif_hope

Good luck, stay strong! Get rest, eat healthy, and stay away from the booze.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ZeekZealand

calif_hope said:


> Good luck, stay strong! Get rest, eat healthy, and stay away from the booze.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Just grabbed my new 24 Hour Fitness membership / called my old personal trainer and lifted for the first time in years. I feel so much better. Don't know why I ever quit lifting to begin with. Exercise is the best remedy for me now.


----------



## Dadof3

Yea - don't play her mental illness slave anymore either. it aint working for either of you.


----------



## Dadof3

sometimes crazy IS THE AGENDA!


----------



## Nikki1023

The first week or two is the hardest..It really is one of the most painful things you can ever feel. Mine cheated on me after my father died. Not like I had enough to worry about..he decided to add even more to my plate. I have a couple of kids myself..so I know your main concern is them. 

If you can get passed the feeling..of feeling like a scatterbrain who is lost in the world, and who dosent know what to do with them self..trust me, it gets better. You have to become a little selfish and worry about yourself for a little bit. Figure out what works. I flipped it into something positive and started lifting weights..never in my life did I think I would be able to squat 130 pounds..finding a positive outlet is extremely important..and avoid taking meds. Good luck.


----------



## ZeekZealand

michzz said:


> You have one small thing to be thankful for in this awful nightmare.
> 
> You live in Texas. And because of that, she cannot get more than three years of spousal support out of you. Not the case where I live in California.


Wow I'm so incredibly glad to hear that. I have not started on that journey yet, but indeed I intend to. I could not look at myself in the mirror and call myself a man if I did not end this now and raise my kids with dignity and integrity. 

I never knew the lengths of trechory a human being was capable of until I was slapped in the face with it disguised as someone who claimed to love and honor me. I am truly disgusted, sickened, & torn deeply by this incident. I only hope I can trust the good in humanity again... A wicked witch she is... and I loved her so much.


----------



## Dadof3

Cut her loose - soon as you can. Not sure why you'd want to give her a chance in this situation. 

If she leaves the house for a while - do what I recommended earlier.

Get the boyfriend fired. As someone else has already stated - the guy's been predating other men 's wives too!


----------



## Sindo

I don't think this was her first affair. Consider getting a paternity test.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Dadof3 said:


> Cut her loose - soon as you can. Not sure why you'd want to give her a chance in this situation.
> 
> If she leaves the house for a while - do what I recommended earlier.
> 
> *Get the boyfriend fired.* As someone else has already stated - the guy's been predating other men 's wives too!



I don't think that the Dallas Stars (or any pro team) would fire a player for infidelity, it's against the contract for starters


----------



## okeydokie

horrible situation, its tough to read. 

is it possible she completely lied to the other guy and told him she was divorced or going through a divorce? when he found out otherwise he cut it off quick. just a thought, cheaters conive both directions.

i would not even begin to try and understand how you must feel.


----------



## jnj express

You will be fine, and you will see that life does get better, once you leave/put the misery behind you.

Your wife may have had disorders, but they sure didn't keep her from knowing how to decieve, connive, manipulate, and lie, just so she could have some meaningless sex, with a scumbag.

She knew every minute of every day, as she planned her sexcapades, and then begged him to stay, after he tried to get away from her----You don't have a wife anymore, ---you have your children's mother, who is now no better than a common wh*re.


----------



## Arnold

I would , definitely, divorce this woman . She has a personality disorder, IMO, and these are intractable, for the most part.
I think you should also publicize the affair and do as much damage to the man's reputation as possible.


----------



## Deejo

I'm forecasting into your future, but you do need to trust that the hurt and the anger will eventually pass.

You will need to let it go ... for your benefit, not hers.

Sh!t hit the fan over 3 years ago between ex and I ... and I was being fed those lies we talked about.

I suffered. She suffered. We worked very hard to not let our kids suffer.

Today, we have a very good, and positive working relationship. You'll get through it.


----------



## Arnold

Deejo said:


> I'm forecasting into your future, but you do need to trust that the hurt and the anger will eventually pass.
> 
> You will need to let it go ... for your benefit, not hers.
> 
> Sh!t hit the fan over 3 years ago between ex and I ... and I was being fed those lies we talked about.
> 
> I suffered. She suffered. We worked very hard to not let our kids suffer.
> 
> Today, we have a very good, and positive working relationship. You'll get through it.




Did she own it and show remorse? Makes a big difference, IMO.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Deejo said:


> I'm forecasting into your future, but you do need to trust that the hurt and the anger will eventually pass.
> 
> You will need to let it go ... for your benefit, not hers.
> 
> Sh!t hit the fan over 3 years ago between ex and I ... and I was being fed those lies we talked about.
> 
> I suffered. She suffered. We worked very hard to not let our kids suffer.
> 
> Today, we have a very good, and positive working relationship. You'll get through it.


So are you together? Did you work through it to stay together or stay apart?


----------



## ZeekZealand

Arnold said:


> Did she own it and show remorse? Makes a big difference, IMO.


Yes. She is owning it. She is showing remorse and regret. It's making it more difficult for me to make a decision.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Arnold said:


> I would , definitely, divorce this woman . She has a personality disorder, IMO, and these are intractable, for the most part.
> I think you should also publicize the affair and do as much damage to the man's reputation as possible.


I have no interest in dragging my name through the mud to satisfy vengeance. I have no ill will towards him, he is a lessor human being than I and have 15 years of history and 5 kids... It's hard as hell to just get up and go - even if I know I need to.


----------



## ZeekZealand

jnj express said:


> You will be fine, and you will see that life does get better, once you leave/put the misery behind you.
> 
> Your wife may have had disorders, but they sure didn't keep her from knowing how to decieve, connive, manipulate, and lie, just so she could have some meaningless sex, with a scumbag.
> 
> She knew every minute of every day, as she planned her sexcapades, and then begged him to stay, after he tried to get away from her----You don't have a wife anymore, ---you have your children's mother, who is now no better than a common wh*re.


Your remark is exactly what I am thinking every day. To the T.


----------



## Shaggy

Seek, may I suggest a change in how you see your choices.

It's not you getting up a going.

The choice is between you giving her the chance to earn the privilege of beng given a chance to prove herself worthy of bein with you AND you deciding she isn't worthy of even trying to earn the chance.

She already left the marriage. The question is if you can accept her back in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

ZeekZealand said:


> Yes. She is owning it. She is showing remorse and regret. It's making it more difficult for me to make a decision.


ZZ you are under no obligation to continue with the marriage if your personal recovery is hampered by it. I divorced my cheating ex-wife despite her being extremely remorseful for having betrayed me. Did I lover her? With all my soul, but in order for me to heal from the ordeal, I had to divorce her.

Choose carefully what you want. You will have to live with the decision for the rest of your life.


----------



## ZeekZealand

okeydokie said:


> horrible situation, its tough to read.
> 
> is it possible she completely lied to the other guy and told him she was divorced or going through a divorce? when he found out otherwise he cut it off quick. just a thought, cheaters conive both directions.
> 
> i would not even begin to try and understand how you must feel.


That's what he told me, but I read their emails and he's a liar. They both lied to me from different angles, it was easy to put the story together. I spoke with him multiple times on the phone when it was over. I realized after one conversation I was dealing with a pathetic, 'sociopathic' liar who self admittedly told me his mother left when he was young. He has no sense of family, no sense of decency, and no understanding of maturity. Much like my wife.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Sindo said:


> I don't think this was her first affair. Consider getting a paternity test.


It was. All my kids are a spitting image of me, blue eyes and blond hair. Plus this was the first time she was alone with other men for extended periods of time during our entire marriage. I had to really think about this one but I'm quite sure of it.


----------



## Arnold

ZeekZealand said:


> I have no interest in dragging my name through the mud to satisfy vengeance. I have no ill will towards him, he is a lessor human being than I and have 15 years of history and 5 kids... It's hard as hell to just get up and go - even if I know I need to.


I think you are smart to let it go. Just irks me that other guys do this to their fellow men.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Arnold said:


> I think you are smart to let it go. Just irks me that other guys do this to their fellow men.


I know exactly what you mean. If a woman is married she's f**king off limits! Didn't we learn that in grade school? You have to be completely narcissistic and quite frankly just an a-hole. 

On my other hand there's my deceiving wife who had much more to lose and should have been much smarter. 

All I know is I'm on the next ship out. Decision was made tonight and I'm committing. I'm ready for a new lease on life. 

I'm starting to think I was given my freedom... (which is just my positive attitude kicking in...)

My son told me today, the one involved in this, that I should leave his Mother. That he would. Damn that was sad... That a 12 year old has to go through this. All he ever wanted to do was play some hockey.


----------



## ZeekZealand

jnj express said:


> You will be fine, and you will see that life does get better, once you leave/put the misery behind you.
> 
> Your wife may have had disorders, but they sure didn't keep her from knowing how to decieve, connive, manipulate, and lie, just so she could have some meaningless sex, with a scumbag.
> 
> She knew every minute of every day, as she planned her sexcapades, and then begged him to stay, after he tried to get away from her----You don't have a wife anymore, ---you have your children's mother, who is now no better than a common wh*re.


I keep reading this over and over. This is just spot on. It really is. Thanks a lot for your comment, truly helped.


----------



## lordmayhem

Of course your WW is showing remorse, now that OM dumped her and she sees that she might lose you. She should have thought of that when she was banging him, telling him that you were abusing her, that you were a monster, etc, etc,. 

Look at the thread for newbies, there's a chart there that shows how you can tell if she's truly remorseful or not. There's also a thread about WS being great actors/actresses too. 

From what I can tell, so far you're in your anger stage, but haven't made any concrete plans as of yet, you're still in shock.


----------



## Eli-Zor

TallJohn1953 said:


> morituri,
> Once again your advice is straight to the point and right on the head. You are my voice of reason & I am very thankful for you & for that. :smthumbup::smthumbup::smthumbup: Consider this a virtual high five. Maybe someday I will be able to give you a real one
> 
> Eli-Zor
> Thank you for the great advice. I've already set some of this in motion. I sent the OM an email detailing _"Only Some"_ of my knowledge of the affair, (I don't want to over play my hand and give away too much at this point). But I got my point across. I also demanded the offensive material be returned, really knowing he wouldn't and it would scare him into deleting it all. Well, with-in 20 mins of my email to him, he not only responded back to me saying that he HAD deleted all the content, along with the account and a copy of a message from his ISP detailing to him that the content would be shred deleted with-in 48 hrs. Now here come the great part. He sent an email to WW with a time stamp 2 mins after the one he sent to me stating the following:
> 
> _"I know you are under a great deal of stress. So am I and neither of us can say that it isn't our fault. It's time to repair burned bridges at home and get on with our lives. **** needs you and **** needs me. She is working extremely hard on her recovery and I need to be there for her, my daughter, the rest of my family, and friends *so this is goodbye*. We supported one another when we really needed it but it's time to move on. Thanks for sticking by me through all the pain I suffered because of addiction. I'll never forget it."_
> 
> He was obviously scared sh!tless & is trying to cut his losses. Little does he know what a rude awakening he's in for in the very near future! :rofl:
> 
> BTW, This line really gets me: *"and neither of us can say that it isn't our fault"* What a P.O.S. this guy is!
> 
> As for coming back, you're stuck with me dude I've found a home at talkaboutmarriage.com. :lol: Seriously, after I get through this, I hope to be a seasoned vet and maybe help others out a little going through it. Pay back if you will. Thanks again.


This guy is in damage control and like your wife will be hiding the truth and extent of the affair ,when ready have a conversation with his wife. 

Work in your own time to your plan , don't make big decisions at this stage . In parallel give your wife the opportunity to come clean with as much detail as you want to hear, all she needs to know is there has been contact and imply that her story does not match up , your evidence is what you use to test the waters if she is starting to practice honesty. Don't be disappointed if she trickle truths . 

I am pro R but not at any cost , I suggest you prepare for the worse and then decide what you want . Divorce is traumatic and any R is difficult , the journey depends entirely if your wife shows true remorse and is prepared by her actions and deeds to work evey day on the R. This is not a part time job for her it has to become her habit .
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## jnj express

Pro athletes are a different breed all-together---just like musicians

They are coddled from an early age, they are given everything necessary to get them to their highest level, and they are allowed to do as they please

They have no boundaries, and they could care less about the average man and his family

Your wife was a groupie to him, and as the term goes a woman in every city---well your wife was his woman in the city you live in.

She was getting some clebrity of her own by having sex with him, and being known as one of his women, and i promise you she boasted of it to those who would listen---It gave her, her 5 minutes of fame, and she didn't wanna lose that.

You, you were just the poor dumb H., "who gives a crap about you", when she can have some pro athlete---that's how low our basic society, and the institution of mge., has fallen.

You just got sucked up in a situation you had no control over, and could do nothing about, while it was happening----

But NOW---now is your time----now you are back in control, cuz her 5 minutes of fame are over and long gone---its up to you to now do what is best for you.

If you have decided to move on---that's fine, cuz living with/looking at a woman who thought so little of you, while she was chasing her lover, will be something that is very hard for you to do. And in all honesty, this is all about one thing, and one thing only---YOU


----------



## Arnold

I came to view my XW's cheating as a blessing, my "get out of jail free" card. She was NPD to the max and was torturing me for years with her verbal, financial and emotional abuse.
So, now you have a legitimate reason that all people understand as valid to get out of an abusive relationship.


----------



## Shaggy

Since she has a history of issues which require you to step up and cover for her, and to baby her - this should provide you with an excellent start for the case why you should get primary custody.

Perhaps she can get so over whelmed that she has an episode that you can document and use in the your petition.


----------



## Shaggy

I still say you should pursue something against the OM and the organization. While it's true that they don't care about infidelity by their athletes, this is different because this is a mom who was prayed upon by him while he was operating in an official capacity for the organization in a kids sports setting.

That's sticking your pen in the ink at work, or with a client - which is different. They deserve to be nailed for it. You might get some college money out of it.


----------



## Initfortheduration

I would get a lawyer to pen a letter to the board of the professional Hockey team. Tell them that you are going to post a full page advo in the local paper. Before the next home game. Stating that there are predator players on the team. Tell them if he is not fired immediately. You will make it your lifes mission to destroy the team as long as that 3rd string player is employed by them. I will wager that they will fire him.


----------



## Shaggy

Initfortheduration said:


> I would get a lawyer to pen a letter to the board of the professional Hockey team. Tell them that you are going to post a full page advo in the local paper. Before the next home game. Stating that there are predator players on the team. Tell them if he is not fired immediately. You will make it your lifes mission to destroy the team as long as that 3rd string player is employed by them. I will wager that they will fire him.


Yeah, a star would just settle some $$ with you, but a 3rd rate guy - they'll just cut him loose.


----------



## Almostrecovered

you underestimate the power of the player's union


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

ZeekZealand said:


> *my youngest son has Autism *and after she was dumped by her affair *she used that and *also *said I abused her to to try to get him back*.



Burn in f*cking h3ll, you evil fuct up b1tch.

oppps sorry, did I say that outloud? ouch! bad form, my bad. tourettes I think.

dont mind me...


----------



## Dadof3

Its worth a shot, though! large organizations also underestimate the power of determined people! 

There we go - occupy Hockey! get rid of the users and abusers! come on hippies, join me on this!  LOL


----------



## JustaJerk

They won't do anything about it. They consider these things "personal" in nature. The union will NEVER allow for him to be let go. The only thing I can see is shaming him. Letting the community know about his behavior. Then again, your wife was a willing participant.


----------



## Almostrecovered

absolute best case scenario would be that they trade him (and I still doubt it would happen), he would learn nothing from it


----------



## Dadof3

If he sucks (3rd rate) - he could be cut - especially if he's causing bad press for the team he represents.


----------



## Almostrecovered

Dadof3 said:


> If he sucks (3rd rate) - he could be cut - especially if he's causing bad press for the team he represents.


and he'll still get paid
and the union will file a grievance and the team won't want to spend $ on lawyers for that

plus add the fact that they don't give a sh!t about the infidelity, they know that fans will be fans unless he has a dog fighting ring (and in which case he will be forgiven and idolized later)


----------



## calif_hope

I think he should go to team and get hum fired...look the second and third string players in the NHL are disposable....at any time a player can go from a NHL team to any of their teams network of development teams and the union can't get involved. 

The fact that the SOB called, worried proves to me he is a lower level player. 

Look image is everything, the fact that a player working in one of their youth programs is huge.....the stuff that sports writers love....sales papers. 

If I was in the BS shoes, I would go to the team, tell them your next step is to go to the papers, the morning radio shows, the team sponsors, the director of youth programs. Going to their sponsors.

Tell the team that you have no problem 'with boys being boys' - the players working their way through all the single groupies.

But you do have a problem with the players using the youth programs to go after married women, being part of damaging the lives if children. 

Who knows the next time he steps on the ice he may be playing for the Boondocks Express - with the only way to ever see a NHL level game is to watch on TV or buy a ticket.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

Agreed with calif_hope - I think NHL union is a bit less powerful than the NBA, NFL unions. I look at it in same terms as calif_hope - very bad press - could impact their image. them wanting to rid the 3rd rate and settle for some $ for quietness.


----------



## Almostrecovered

okay- so threaten a full page ad-


problems-

ad costs $10-20K
paper very unlikely to accept the ad as they would fear that if they print it then they will lose access to the team locker room and exclusive intereviews

okay, so notify the press

again, most sports reporters would not do story out of fear that it will bite them. If it was a high profile player then the juicyness would make it worth it, but also interest in the story would be rather low since infidelity in athletes is very common


----------



## ZeekZealand

Shaggy said:


> I still say you should pursue something against the OM and the organization. While it's true that they don't care about infidelity by their athletes, this is different because this is a mom who was prayed upon by him while he was operating in an official capacity for the organization in a kids sports setting.
> 
> That's sticking your pen in the ink at work, or with a client - which is different. They deserve to be nailed for it. You might get some college money out of it.


The league has his back 100%.


----------



## Almostrecovered

is the player married however?

if so theres the person you expose to


----------



## morituri

Nevertheless, you could expose him via the news media. Your reason for exposing him is to warn others about his predatory nature.


----------



## RandomDude

Mental issues does not give a person the right to do ill.

I have mental issues, so does wifey (hehe *looks over shoulder*), and I bet so do a lot of people. In the end people have to be held accountable. 15 years of marriage, cheated for 4 months? Lied about abuse to the court? 

Divorce her
Unless she is willing to put in the effort to save her marriage, which from sounds of things she's not



> Nevertheless, you could expose him via the news media.


Agreed, I wonder why OP would be mates with this guy. You have to avoid court charges at all costs, you don't want to end up paying this guy or going to jail over it. But exposing him, well that would be great. Justice!


----------



## JustaJerk

A union is powerful enough, no matter how prestigious.

Do what chapparal suggested on another thread. Post his profile on Cheaterville anonymously, and send the link to the team.


----------



## jnj express

All of you are dreaming, if you think the league, or the dallas team are gonna get involved AT ALL---They don't give a sh*t about the average person----all they want from us is ticket money, and merchandise money

But Zeek, can, if he wants file a lawsuit agst. the hockey player for intentional infliction of emotional distress----problem is, if the guy has any money, and what kind of a contract he has, as to how much money he actually does have---if he plays major league hockey---he has some bucks, if he is minor league hockey, he has nothing, and you would just waste your time with a lawsuit. Otherwise, as to what athletes do on their own time, the hockey teams DO NOT CARE.


----------



## ZeekZealand

calif_hope said:


> I think he should go to team and get hum fired...look the second and third string players in the NHL are disposable....at any time a player can go from a NHL team to any of their teams network of development teams and the union can't get involved.
> 
> The fact that the SOB called, worried proves to me he is a lower level player.
> 
> Look image is everything, the fact that a player working in one of their youth programs is huge.....the stuff that sports writers love....sales papers.
> 
> If I was in the BS shoes, I would go to the team, tell them your next step is to go to the papers, the morning radio shows, the team sponsors, the director of youth programs. Going to their sponsors.
> 
> Tell the team that you have no problem 'with boys being boys' - the players working their way through all the single groupies.
> 
> But you do have a problem with the players using the youth programs to go after married women, being part of damaging the lives if children.
> 
> Who knows the next time he steps on the ice he may be playing for the Boondocks Express - with the only way to ever see a NHL level game is to watch on TV or buy a ticket.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I strongly considered this but now, 2 weeks to the day I found out later, I just don't have the energy to invest in someone else's demise. I just don't care about him. My family was destroyed, all 7 of us, no one else's life needs to be. I'm still as sad and depressed now as I was the first day... I just need it to be over.


----------



## ZeekZealand

jnj express said:


> All of you are dreaming, if you think the league, or the dallas team are gonna get involved AT ALL---They don't give a sh*t about the average person----all they want from us is ticket money, and merchandise money
> 
> But Zeek, can, if he wants file a lawsuit agst. the hockey player for intentional infliction of emotional distress----problem is, if the guy has any money, and what kind of a contract he has, as to how much money he actually does have---if he plays major league hockey---he has some bucks, if he is minor league hockey, he has nothing, and you would just waste your time with a lawsuit. Otherwise, as to what athletes do on their own time, the hockey teams DO NOT CARE.


F**k the ahole. He's not worth the ground I would spit on in.


----------



## Chaparral

Put him on cheaterville.com If people google his name they will see what kind of guy he really is.


----------



## chillymorn

sue him civil court for ruining your marriage. he"ll pay out to keep his name clean.

then divorce your wife and move on the best you can it will be hard at first but in time you will think I'm so glad I did .

a baseball bal to his knees is what this scum bag deserves.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Almostrecovered said:


> is the player married however?
> 
> if so theres the person you expose to


Actually yes, his wife lived back in the city they lived in before he moved to Dallas.... And get this... he told her such massive lies that she was calling my wife threatening her to quit lying and saying she had an affair with a 'hockey player'. OMG I could not believe it. I was sitting next to my wife on the couch when those calls came in. I sent her the trail of emails I found and didn't hear back for many days...


----------



## Shaggy

ZeekZealand said:


> Actually yes, his wife lived back in the city they lived in before he moved to Dallas.... And get this... he told her such massive lies that she was calling my wife threatening her to quit lying and saying she had an affair with a 'hockey player'. OMG I could not believe it. I was sitting next to my wife on the couch when those calls came in. I sent her the trail of emails I found and never heard back.


Do you know that she actually received them?


----------



## ZeekZealand

ZeekZealand said:


> Actually yes, his wife lived back in the city they lived in before he moved to Dallas.... And get this... he told her such massive lies that she was calling my wife threatening her to quit lying and saying she had an affair with a 'hockey player'. OMG I could not believe it. I was sitting next to my wife on the couch when those calls came in. I sent her the trail of emails I found and never heard back.


To be real honest I had no intention of telling her because I did not want her to go through what I was... But after the threatening phone calls I was happy to send them all to her through Facebook.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Shaggy said:


> Do you know that she actually received them?


Yes. She responded to me with a simple, "I'm so sorry." several days later.


----------



## ZeekZealand

I don't know why but it did not make me feel any better at all.


----------



## crossbar

jnj express said:


> All of you are dreaming, if you think the league, or the dallas team are gonna get involved AT ALL---They don't give a sh*t about the average person----all they want from us is ticket money, and merchandise money
> 
> But Zeek, can, if he wants file a lawsuit agst. the hockey player for intentional infliction of emotional distress----problem is, if the guy has any money, and what kind of a contract he has, as to how much money he actually does have---if he plays major league hockey---he has some bucks, if he is minor league hockey, he has nothing, and you would just waste your time with a lawsuit. Otherwise, as to what athletes do on their own time, the hockey teams DO NOT CARE.


 Well, I don't know what kind of money the dude has. The salary cap on any NHL team is 42 million and that's for the entire team. So, NHL players are the lowest paid pro athlete's. Therefore, if the Stars want a top player, they may have to pay (let's say) 5 million, thus the rest of the team only has 37 million to split up among themselves. Now if the OM is on the third line. He's the low man on the team. He's not going to get paid as much as the guys on the first line (or the starter for you non-hockey folks). There's a chance that this guy still belongs to the Iowa Stars in the AHL and is playing up in Dallas on waivers. SO, there's a lot of possibilities.


----------



## Almostrecovered

ZeekZealand said:


> I don't know why but it did not make me feel any better at all.



down the line it helps
I who waited too long and the OMW buried her head in the sand with my exposure, it still burns my butt that they OM never had to face consequences.
so at least you will not harbor those feelings


----------



## Shaggy

It sounds like since the OM was already throwning your WW under the bus, that the OMW decided it wasn't worth her time to fight ?


----------



## ZeekZealand

Well it's been 15 days since the affair and on a scale of 1 to 100, 1 being how I felt the day I found out about this whole thing, I'm at about a 15. So every day the hurt and despair I'm experiencing improves by a factor of 1. I guess with this silly logic I will start feeling better in a couple of months from now. 

Since I'll never be at 100 again, at least with this relationship, I have some questions to anyone out there that has been through this.

*First an update:*

My wife is now being nicer than she has in 15 years. She's actually trying for a change. She is no longer combative, hateful or mean. She's very remorseful, but I cannot tell if it's genuine, if she is just lying to get back her second choice or what. 

With that being said, she is also now aware that Texas is a no alimony state (thanks talkaboutmarriage.com) and that she is going to have to work for the first time in 13 years. She knows that her mental problems will prevent her from ever trying to get full custody.

I'm at a crossroads myself. I want to give her a second chance one day and the next day I want to move out. It's an up and down struggle that is driving me mad. I cannot decide how I feel. 

I kind of imagine a little angel on one shoulder saying "Zeek, you guys have been through too much together and have too much history. Your families are all close and the kids would be crushed. You owe it to yourself to try again." While the other, more logical angel on my other shoulder is saying "Zeek, are you insane? This woman who you thought was the center of your life completely stabbed you in the back and used the most manipulating, cruel means to lie and deceive you. Get away, get away as fast as possible."

_I still don't know what the hell to do._ Any opinions would be greatly appreciated at this point. I love her so much but every other sense I have is telling me she is nothing but a liar and is completely manipulating me to not have to face the real world. 

Geez, what the hell did I do to deserve this? I would not wish this evil on my worst enemy. You know?

I got a job right before this all started making more money than I could ever dream. I am completely capable of losing a few pounds, mourning for a while, and starting to date again. I guess my biggest fears are:

*1. What should I do? (Please don't say it's really up to you.)
2. Will a woman who knows that I have 5 children be scared away instantly?
3. How will this ultimately affect my kids?
4. Should I ever trust her after she did all these horrible things to me?*

Confused & still sad as hell... ~Zeek


----------



## ZeekZealand

Oh, and here's a nice little email I found yesterday.

----- Original Message -----
From: **** ****** <**********@gmail.com>
To: ****** ******
Sent: Wed Nov 02 12:54:51 2011
Subject: Re: One more thing

Hi. I just wanted you to know I have no bad feelings towards you. Im
actually relieved I dont have to worry about making plans with you or
if you want to meet me or not. Im sure I will have no problem finding
someone new to have sex with me that will make me a prioriet. I
definitely have enough new lingerie to have a new affair. So anyway
its all good. Im already over it. The only reason I told u about my
sons Autism diagnosis was not to make u feel bad, but to make u
understand why I had been so needy with my text. My only concern is
that you will treat ****** as if this never happened when he is in
****** camp. Will u do that for me? I hope u dont have hard feeling
towards me. ****

On 10/2/11, **** ****** <**********@gmail.com> wrote:
> K.I guess I can wait.Jk.Talk to u soon.
>
> On 10/2/11, ****** ****** <******@******.com> wrote:
>> Hey I just got home, Im really sorry about all of this. Ill have a phone
>> tomorrow and will make it up. Its too late now so ill just txt u when I
>> get
>> a phone.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: **** ****** [mailto:**********@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:24 PM
>> To: ****** ******
>> Subject: Re: One more thing
>>
>> Or just email me when u get home and Ill come over.
>>
>> On 10/2/11, ****** ****** <*******@******.com> wrote:
>>> No not at all, I have hockey until about 6pm??? Ill get on email after
>>> that.
>>> Sorry, it is so weird without a phone.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: **** ****** [mailto:**********@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:43 PM
>>> To: ****** ******
>>> Subject: Re: One more thing
>>>
>>> Cool,
>>>
>>> Sorry I couldn't come by. I was very disappointed and tried to call you
>>> and
>>> let you know I couldn't make it. Are you busy today all day?
>>> I really wanted to see you before my husband got home. If not lets try
>>> to
>>> get together this week. I feel better I thought you didn't want me to
>>> come.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 2, 2011 at 12:06 PM, ****** ******
>>> <******@******.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hey I broke my phone Fri night, I had no way to contact u. I don't have
>>>> a
>>>> phone until Monday because it is a team phone.
>>>>. I was home on Sat, wanted you to stop by. I apologize I wanted
>>>> to
>>>> too, but I dropped my phone in water Fri night while I was drunk. I
>>>> missed
>>>> all your txts..
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: **** ****** [mailto:**********@gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 11:15 AM
>>>> To: ****** ******
>>>> Subject: One more thing
>>>>
>>>> I wanted to let you know I don't want my husband to find out just like
>>>> you
>>>> don't want your wife to find out. I just thought we had another
>>>> month before she moved down. I would never call you or text you once she
>>>> did. Sorry if I text you to much.
>>>>
>>>> ****


----------



## Shaggy

One bit of advice, gather up every piece of underwear and lingere she has, and I mean everything , take it and burn it.

Tell her if she needs new stuff she needs to get a job and buy it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## sadcalifornian

Wow, the guy was desperate shaking her off, lying about breaking his phone. Indeed your W was the pursuer toward the end, like you said.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Shaggy said:


> One bit of advice, gather up every piece of underwear and lingere she has, and I mean everything , take it and burn it.
> 
> Tell her if she needs new stuff she needs to get a job and buy it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ha. Actually funny story about this. I went into her closet a night or two after I found out after waking up at 2am in a complete nightmare and took all her clothes, I mean ALL her clothes and threw them into the front lawn while saying "I'm going to wash all your wh*re clothes in the front lawn so everyone will know what a wh*re you are." The kids were upstairs asleep so thank God they didn't see it. I then grabbed the liquid detergent and squirt an entire gallon all over all her clothes while saying the same thing over and over...

One of our neighbors called the police on me and when the cops got there and I told them what happen and what I was doing they started laughing their asses off. 

This is so unlike me, I swear unless you've been through this you never know what you're capable of. I feel like such a fool for acting like I cared so much.

BTW. I did take all her NEW lingerie that she told she bought for me and even wore for me during the affair to "spice up our sex lives" and cut it up into pieces in front of her. It was very expensive (yes my credit card) stuff too.


----------



## ZeekZealand

sadcalifornian said:


> Wow, the guy was desperate shaking her off, lying about breaking his phone. Indeed your W was the pursuer toward the end, like you said.


Yeah, I wasn't completely convinced until I found this yesterday.


----------



## Shaggy

ZeekZealand said:


> BTW. I did take all her NEW lingerie that she told she bought for me and even wore for me during the affair to "spice up our sex lives" and cut it up into pieces in front of her. It was very expensive (yes my credit card) stuff too.


Have you tried sending his wife the bills for the lingerie?


----------



## the guy

Have you told the OMW about the fake R?

Your wife will grow old and die alone with her son resenting her and after several failed marriages she will be found dead by the postman surrouned by 100 cats and cat boo.

realy nice chick....sorry bro!

You sound like a guy that can get back on his horse and ride off to the sun set. You will be a better father for it. Dumb the doe doe!


----------



## Initfortheduration

Why would anyone want to be with a wh0re like your wife? Be strong. Realize that the skank you married, finally showed her colors. Divorce her.........Yesterday. She is a complete skank. You need to assure yourself that you are disease free. Tell her there are plenty of street corners she can display her wears on. Hey, tell her that you will be one of her steady customers. Unless of course there is someone younger and pretty then her working the same corner. Then all bets are off.


----------



## Arnold

Your wife sounds sociopathic or , at least NPD/BPD. She was telling the guy she had enough lingerie for another affair???
You need to get away from this monster. I bet you are conditioned to her abuse. Once out, life will, gradually, return to normal and you will be amazed at what you tolerated.


----------



## Shaggy

Zeek,

Let's say this one is over. what is actually changing that would prevent her from doing it again once she's gotten you settled down from your little tiff?

what fundamental consequences is she facing?

how is she earning the privilege of you giving her a second chance?

do you actually think she can change who she is?


----------



## warlock07

> "I'm going to wash all your wh*re clothes in the front lawn so everyone will know what a wh*re you are."


That was really funny...:rofl::rofl::rofl:

I'm sorry


----------



## ZeekZealand

Decision has just been made, I'm leaving. Enough is enough, you're all right. I will look back at what I tolerated some day when I'm not in the thick of it and be amazed, that was the comment that just made my decision for me.

Thank you all so much. I've downloaded a divorce kit (hehe - funny name) and I'm getting this sh*t over with.

I'm committing to this decision, I appreciate the feedback so much.

~ZZ

I'll provide updates over the next few weeks.


----------



## the guy

What happened Zeek, don't tell me you busted her again?
Is the blame shifting getting to you along with all the crap thats comes with thier fog/fantasyland?


----------



## RandomDude

> Your wife will grow old and die alone with her son resenting her and after several failed marriages she will be found dead by the postman surrouned by 100 cats and cat boo.


:rofl:


----------



## SadSamIAm

All it would take is to read those last emails he posted one more time. 

No respect at all.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

ZeekZealand said:


> ...
> 
> I got a job right before this all started making more money than I could ever dream. I am completely capable of losing a few pounds, mourning for a while, and starting to date again. I guess my biggest fears are:
> 
> *1. What should I do? (Please don't say it's really up to you.)
> 2. Will a woman who knows that I have 5 children be scared away instantly?
> 3. How will this ultimately affect my kids?
> 4. Should I ever trust her after she did all these horrible things to me?*
> 
> Confused & still sad as hell... ~Zeek


Okay, I take a stab at answering this for you.

1. You should prepare yourself financially and legally to move away/divorce her. You do not have to pull the trigger now. But you can file and then take your time. You can always cancel/stop the divorce anytime before the final order.

2. No, not really. Your kids will grow up and move away. There are women out there, I truly believe, who are much better than who you have now for a wife.

3. Kids will survive. Always love them, let them know that. Always be kind and firm in your dealings with them. Teach them the ethical ways of living.

Staying with your wife, now that you know she is very capable of betrayal, may hurt your kids more. They see that betrayal, unfaithfulness can be tolerated.

4. You can never trust her again. That is now seared in your head. You now know what she's capable of, and that knowledge can never be wiped out.

Let her be independent. Let her learn that life is not to cheat on the closest person that she can have. When she has her own job, when she has to learn life lessons, hopefully she will turn out to be a better person in the end. Hopefully she'll find self-respect and dignity. This may take years or decades.


----------



## lordmayhem

The comment about having enough lingerie to start another affair is what got me. This really isn't a woman that's stuck in the affair fog with OM and in love with him, its a person who thinks of this as a lifestyle. While you are sure that this is her first time, her words seem to indicate that this is her thing. 

Sorry that you're in this situation. You've been there for her, sacrificed a lot for her illness, and this is how she chooses to treat you. It's cold and calculating. 

Would women be scared away instantly? I can't really say. 

How will this affect your kids? The younger they are, the more they can adapt. No doubt the older ones will have a harder time adjusting. Like you said, you will probably have full custody due to her illness, so you will be there for them. Just don't try to demonizer her to them, if they want, just tell them the truth of what happened.

Should you ever trust her again? Considering you have decided to D, the point is moot, isn't it? It's not like she will have the chance to earn your trust again. She's cold and calculating like I said. Sure, she's being nice to you now that she knows what she's about to lose. She's been a stay at home mom all these years and the thought of re-entering the workforce at her age is going to be absolutely frightening for her. She didn't know how good she had it and took you and your love for granted. Its time for a dose of reality.


----------



## sadcalifornian

ZeekZealand said:


> Decision has just been made, I'm leaving. Enough is enough, you're all right. I will look back at what I tolerated some day when I'm not in the thick of it and be amazed, that was the comment that just made my decision for me.
> 
> Thank you all so much. I've downloaded a divorce kit (hehe - funny name) and I'm getting this sh*t over with.
> 
> I'm committing to this decision, I appreciate the feedback so much.
> 
> ~ZZ
> 
> I'll provide updates over the next few weeks.


Althogh I am pretty sure I would divorce my W if this happened to me, then again I am not you. You have children to worry about and each situation is different. I just hope that you have come to this decision based on what you really want considering all factors, not because many posters here urge you to do so. 

Here on this forum, you can get many helpful advices as to how to cope with infidelity, but when it comes to whether to D or R, it should be your personal decision. Do not jump to such decision just because everybody here says so. 

Think carefully.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I put that lingerie comment right up there with this recent one



TheGoodFight said:


> And I'm still haunted by one of her emails to a "friend" while she was still continuing the affair after our first D-Day.
> 
> "*I'll have to be a really good actress to get him to trust me again.*"


----------



## Chaparral

Almostrecovered said:


> I put that lingerie comment right up there with this recent one


Actually, the lingerie comment probably wasn't a serious comment from ww. That was just an attempt to make POSOM jealous. Typical.


----------



## Shaggy

Ok, getting rid of her... Good decision

You being the one to leave... Bad decision
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Initfortheduration

What a conniving little skank. I concur with your decision to divorce this succubus.


----------



## Thor

Zeek, I'm sorry you're in this situation.

No matter what happens, you can handle it! You will be happy and fulfilled again. You will have good relationships with high quality women. The specifics may be unknown at this time, but the future will be far better for you than the way things are now.


----------



## Arnold

Zeke's been in a relationship , a long one, with a severely disordered woman. I was in one for almost 12 years before my XW's sister came to me and implored me to divorce and save myself.
What I am alluding to , the recovery from the relationship, is something that I have and am going through.
The abuse is insidious and one does not even notice how it changes one. By the end, you are unrecognizable to yourself and others.
Life is just tto short, ZAeke, to live that way. In about a year or two, you will look back at the things you put up with, that you accepted as normal, and be amazed.
In my first relationship post divorce, I was amazed at the lack of raging and abuse. I just kept expecting the abuse and it never came. Then, I knew what folks were talking about when they said they were at peace in their relationships. It was wonderful.


----------



## Darth Vader

ZeekZealand said:


> Ha. Actually funny story about this. I went into her closet a night or two after I found out after waking up at 2am in a complete nightmare and took all her clothes, I mean ALL her clothes and threw them into the front lawn while saying "I'm going to wash all your wh*re clothes in the front lawn so everyone will know what a wh*re you are." The kids were upstairs asleep so thank God they didn't see it. I then grabbed the liquid detergent and squirt an entire gallon all over all her clothes while saying the same thing over and over...
> 
> One of our neighbors called the police on me and when the cops got there and I told them what happen and what I was doing they started laughing their asses off.
> 
> This is so unlike me, I swear unless you've been through this you never know what you're capable of. I feel like such a fool for acting like I cared so much.
> 
> BTW. I did take all her NEW lingerie that she told she bought for me and even wore for me during the affair to "spice up our sex lives" and cut it up into pieces in front of her. It was very expensive (yes my credit card) stuff too.


So what was her reaction to this? PRICELESS to what you did, absolutely PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!:smthumbup:


----------



## ZeekZealand

the guy said:


> What happened Zeek, don't tell me you busted her again?
> Is the blame shifting getting to you along with all the crap thats comes with thier fog/fantasyland?


What a perfect phrase.... BLAME SHIFTING. That must be the most exquisite term I've heard to describe what is happening to me on the planet.

Actually it comes and goes in waves, her behavior I mean. I wanted to test her yesterday, to find out if all that she was saying was bullsh*t. Her reaction is what finally made me decide to leave.

*The story.*

Right after the affair I was in a scatter-brained panic to hurt my W so I kicked off a message on Facebook to a old squeeze who has been chasing me down since her divorce 3 years ago. I've consistently told her we will only be friends and her messages were inappropriate considering I'm a married man with 5 children (because that's what f*cking married people do). But this particular night, the night right after I found out, I told her I needed to get my wife back for cheating and asked if she wanted meet at a hotel. She agreed but within 20 minutes I came to my senses and messaged her again to apologize for my behavior, that I was wrong to have messaged her and told her that was a terrible idea. 

Either way the second message was a different message on Facebook and I purposely left the first message on my screen when I knew my wife would be sitting at my desk to watch Ghost Adventures Friday night.

After my W sat down I waited for about 2 minutes and she came storming in the room telling me it's f*cking over and she wants to sign the divorce papers. That I was a liar and that sex with the OM was so much better than we have ever had. How could I do that to her and a bunch of other similar comments. The comment I remember the most was, "Just because I had an affair doesn't mean you can."

Bingo. That's all I needed to hear. I of-course showed her the second message where I cancelled and said it was a bad idea. I also asked her why she shifted from perfect, sweet wifey to angry, hateful - "I can have an affair but how dare you even consider it!" wifey. She started telling me that I was deceptive and mean. Now THAT'S the woman I know.

It was all an act. Her reaction said enough. If she was truly sorry she would have felt horrible for what she had caused me to do and blamed herself. Or at least not said such hurtful things. 

Yes it was a dirty trick but sh*t man, my life was riding on her acting job and I had to know if she was being authentic.

Anyways, the drama continues... Stay tuned.


----------



## ZeekZealand

sadcalifornian said:


> Althogh I am pretty sure I would divorce my W if this happened to me, then again I am not you. You have children to worry about and each situation is different. I just hope that you have come to this decision based on what you really want considering all factors, not because many posters here urge you to do so.
> 
> Here on this forum, you can get many helpful advices as to how to cope with infidelity, but when it comes to whether to D or R, it should be your personal decision. Do not jump to such decision just because everybody here says so.
> 
> Think carefully.


Indeed. I have a 6 year college education and plenty of wisdom, I would never let a few comments steer my personal choices. It's just nice to be be reinforced for what I was already feeling. Validation can work for evil and for good, in this case it just lent an introspective view that I'm incapable of seeing for obvious reasons.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Darth Vader said:


> So what was her reaction to this? PRICELESS to what you did, absolutely PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!:smthumbup:


Actually she tried to stop me physically once I brought out the detergent. I just pulled it away from her and continued on. I know, I just told this story to my barber today and he couldn't stop laughing.


----------



## Shaggy

Seek for today you are the man. Good job rooting out her true nature.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

You know you likely put a real scare into her too when she realized you could hook up anytime you choose to. That you are desired by other women.

She's likely to return to her game but try stepping it up now that she realizes there is competition.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Arnold

Her reaction spoke vloumes, as you said Zeke. Very good work with the test. It should give you peace of mind to know what you are dealing with-a monster.


----------



## the guy

I don't think she has one once of respect for you Zeek.

When the topic of a revenge affair was brought up by my wife, I was told that I could have a pass, but she didn't think it would be healthy for me as an individual or the marriage but she was willing to take me to one of her old sex clubs for a go at it. She wanted no part of any strange ...she had enough and that life style of lies and deciet and running around with OM was something she wanted to get passed.

She stated that she only wants me but understood if I felt like I need to get some strange to help heal. Interesting but getting strange would not help me heal. She then stated even I she would watch, I told her thats not why i confronted you so amnt dyas ago. I confronted you b/c both our behaviors were unhealthy and a real change was needed to take place as individuals and we can only hope that these change benift out marriage as a couple.


Any way my point was her intent was if I need to get some strange to heal then fine but it was my choice, and she would have dealt with it.

The bottom line is she was thinking about me, she had no desire to swap or swing or be with other man, she had enough and she wanted to make her own positive changes, as far as she was concerned it was about me healing.

For a minute I though she was seeing another man but nothing paned out. I truely believe she would have given me a pass if thats what it took or I wanted to.

I think if my WW acted like yours did I *would* had a revenge affair, Kind a like tell me not to do aomething then I'll do it anyway just for spite. IDK but I do know I though my WW responce was more healthier then "do as I say not as I do" you know what I mean?

Your chick is way off base and just doesnt get it. I doubt she ever will. My quess is that you will not regret the divorce and once you get this monkey off your back you will be better off for it.


----------



## ZeekZealand

In thinking about this as I do all day every day... I have come to realize that my wife is not smart enough to pull off manipulation on such a high level. In other words, I truly believe when she says something to me, she believes what she is saying is true. However because I've completely picked apart her personality disorder lately I know that she has no ability to react with a rational thought process. Her life is a sequence of short-sided actions based on her emotions at any given time. 

I think she is truly miserable. She has bulimia, anorexia, agoraphobia, generalized anxiety disorder, panic disorder... hmm.. I could probably find a few more if I wanted. 

The thing is, I know from living with her for 15 years that she genuinely feels the way she acts in any moment.

Her problem is the complete disability to be introspective. I don't think she has the capacity to self-analyze herself in order to begin to change, even if she wanted to.

She just says when I attack her with the "why's" and "don't you care's" with "I'm not a bad person...".

She's just ill man. She stopped mentally developing during the onset of her panic disorder 2 years after we were married and just acts like a 23 year old girl.

That's why it's so damn hard to figure her out. After this long I could not tell you what the hell she is thinking at any given time... Because she couldn't tell you either.

Either way... Just found a great home that I'm going to look at tomorrow. 

Her family is very, very wealthy and will take care of her. I can move on and find true love. To be honest this whole thing was designed by someone to release me from my self-stricken responsibilities. 

I'm going to be free and after this hole in my heart heals, I will be a much stronger, much happier individual with so much more mental time to dedicate to my children.


----------



## sandra holmes

You have done all the hard work, I feel sorry for you and i do hope you get back to her .


----------



## Shaggy

Actually, it's not a 23 yr old, it sounds more like a 14 yr old.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pit-of-my-stomach

Bravo zeek, bravo. The trick with the email was epic, b-e-a-utiful. Well played sir, well played.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## I_Will_Survive

ZeekZealand said:


> 2. Will a woman who knows that I have 5 children be scared away instantly?


I wouldn't be. Would you be scared away by my kids? Maybe don't look for women who have never been married.


----------



## Arnold

My XW is the same way, Zeke. Hell, even after being busted and now divorced, she will still call me on occassion and drone on about some problem r feeling she has, as if I could give a ****. it is like she just cannot process the fact that she killed any feelings I have for her or about her.
It is just so weird, this ability to live entirely in the moment and to have absolutely no insight into oneself.
Like you, I view the infidelity as my waqy out, a blessing, actually.
Anyone married to a personality disordered spouse has been tortured, systematically and relentlessly, IMO.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Shaggy said:


> Seek for today you are the man. Good job rooting out her true nature.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:smthumbup:


----------



## ZeekZealand

Arnold said:


> My XW is the same way, Zeke. Hell, even after being busted and now divorced, she will still call me on occassion and drone on about some problem r feeling she has, as if I could give a ****. it is like she just cannot process the fact that she killed any feelings I have for her or about her.
> It is just so weird, this ability to live entirely in the moment and to have absolutely no insight into oneself.
> Like you, I view the infidelity as my waqy out, a blessing, actually.
> Anyone married to a personality disordered spouse has been tortured, systematically and relentlessly, IMO.


I am looking forward to the day that I don't care. I honestly can't wait. I'm tired of hurting, I just want to be happy now...


----------



## vickyyy

You are Alpha.


----------



## morituri

ZZ you may want to check out the website 'Dads divorce', especially the forums. Just click on the link below my signature.


----------



## Darth Vader

Shaggy said:


> Seek for today you are the man. Good job rooting out her true nature.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree:

Drop her ass!


----------



## JustaJerk

Get rid of her already, dude. Take comfort in the knowledge that you won't be sleeping next to a no-good, lying, cheater anymore.


----------



## ZeekZealand

morituri said:


> ZZ you may want to check out the website 'Dads divorce', especially the forums. Just click on the link below my signature.


Excellent resource. Thanks!


----------



## AFEH

ZeekZealand said:


> In thinking about this as I do all day every day... I have come to realize that my wife is not smart enough to pull off manipulation on such a high level. In other words, I truly believe when she says something to me, she believes what she is saying is true. However because I've completely picked apart her personality disorder lately I know that she has no ability to react with a rational thought process. Her life is a sequence of short-sided actions based on her emotions at any given time.


Absolutely. They actually believe their lies and that is why they are so utterly believable. Because they believe their lies their body language gives absolutely nothing away when they tell them and is congruent with telling the truth.

Which of course means people like your wife are deluded. And delusion is a serious mental illness. The sad part is that with a wife who is deluded, the husband is/was also deluded. He is deluded because he actually believed his wife’s lies.


----------



## AFEH

If your marriage is truly over for you then you will be grieving. It will do you a lot of good to research and understand the grieving process because you’ll know what you are thinking and feeling is all really quite “normal” (believe it or not). With the anger, if you have it, find positive ways of dissipating it, exercise, punch bags that sort of thing.

You will basically be working towards “acceptance”. Acceptance of all that’s happened and acceptance of your new way of life. The trick is to accept even the things you cannot understand because looking for understanding can take a lifetime.

Us men are magnificently adaptable and you will adapt to your new way of life. It will take you time. But you sound like an adopter to me as well so you will be creative and get outside your comfort zone to create yourself an even better life in the future.

You’ve been deceived by your wife so therefore in ways your past life with her was not authentic. You can now look forward to living an authentic life. Next time round it will be authentic because you will not put any new partner on the very high pedestal you once had your wife on and if she were to try and deceive you she simply wouldn’t get away with it.


----------



## staying_strong

I am kind of sad to hear all the remarks on this thread. I totally understand how you feel as I am the BS in my marriage. I only have two young kids (4 and 1 1/2) whose lives would probably not be too affected if my husband and I got divorced today. However, I am a child of divorced parents. I was 13 when my parents got divorced and was there when my mother found out my dad had been cheating on her (for four years). It was the worst thing that could've happened in my childhood. I suffered many years because of that. 

Many people would ask me why I would even consider taking my husband back. The fact of the matter is I still love him. The other major factor is that we have children together. I believe that I owe it to my kids to give it a try to make things work. Does that mean I am going to let him walk all over me and take advantage of me? Absolutely not. I made a vow, I intend on keeping it. But a marriage takes two people and if he wasn't going to be there, then I would not be either. I made it very clear that I would not take him back unless he was committed to making marriage work. I also made it extremely clear that if this were to happen again, there would be no second chances. I will also tell you that an affair is like a drug. People in affairs do not think clearly as they are under the influence. They want more and it can be a difficult thing to break. For most people, it requires hitting rock bottom to realize that they need to get out and make changes to their life.

Having gone through the emotional rollercoasters that you are going through (only 1 month out from D day), I would have you ask yourself, do you still love your wife? If you do, even a little, I would take more time to really consider working things through with her especially if it seems she wants to. And really the reason for that is for your kids. However, how you work things out really needs to be on your terms. If she can't do the things that you need to heal from the infidelity, then she does not want to be in the marriage badly enough and you have your answer. If she does do everything you ask, then I would give her the opportunity to prove herself. Now she may need time to decide if she wants to be committed to working on the marriage. I would advise that she move out until she has made a decision. I would also strongly advise marriage counseling. You need to figure out why the affair happened and if there were things that were wrong in the marriage (from both parties) that may have contributed.

In the end things may still not work out, but at least you tried and you owe it to your kids to at least try. I tell myself (and my husband) "if this marriage ends, it won't be because of me, it will be solely because you didn't try hard enough." And I told him that if the kids ever ask why weren't together I would tell them because Daddy gave up and we both would know that that is truth. 

It requires a lot of strength to stick it out in a marriage after an affair. You have to figure out if you are strong enough to do it. But don't stick it out and your wife get away with letting things stay the same. She absolutely has to make changes. And that is a requirement. In the process, you may also find that you may need to make changes too.

I hope this has been helpful. I know I am going out on limb telling you something different than what other people are telling you. Believe me, I understand the hurt and anger you are going through as I have been through it and am still going through it right now. I am just asking you to think of your children what would really be best for your children (because I have been there too).


----------



## staying_strong

By the way, since you are only 2 weeks since D day, neither you nor your wife are really thinking rationally. You guys are both incredibly emotional and you guys are both just reacting. In the first two weeks after my D day, I caught my husband talking to the OW, telling her he loved her and wanted to be with her, while telling me that wanted to be with me and the kids. He was seriously addicted to the good feelings the affair provided him with. It felt like I was betrayed again! Only in the past 1-2 weeks did he start being more transparent, and believe it or not, things have been moving in the right direction. Take the time to process things. Have her move out if you need to, but take time to sort through things for yourself. Deciding whether or not you want to stay in your marriage is a big decision and one that should not be taken lightly.


----------



## lordmayhem

staying_strong said:


> It requires a lot of strength to stick it out in a marriage after an affair. You have to figure out if you are strong enough to do it. But don't stick it out and your wife get away with letting things stay the same. She absolutely has to make changes. And that is a requirement. In the process, you may also find that you may need to make changes too.


I have a problem with this statement because it implies that those who don't R, are weak. That is not the case. For many people, infidelity, especially on the scale for what his WW did to him, is a deal breaker. Everyone has what they consider their own deal breaker. Choosing to R or D does not mean someone is weak or strong enough. 

You yourself are only a month out from DDay, only 2 weeks longer than Zeek. Then your WH broke NC and you suffered DDay#2. You may still be in the shock/denial stage yourself and my not be thinking rationally since you've already decided to R when DDay was only a month ago. There are many BSs in your phase that are so desperate to save their marriage that they go straight to R when the WS isn't even ready for it yet. In your case, you don't even know yet if your WH can even maintain NC, because he broke NC only 2 weeks ago, yet you've decided already to R. The first 6 months are crucial and one of the APs will fish for renewed contact as your WH has. You may yet have another DDay.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

ZeekZealand said:


> I'm so confused and I don't want to hurt my kids... I just don't know what the hell to do...


Tell her to pack her bags and go to this pro hockey player's house and ask to move in with him. I'm sure he'll think she is special enough to put a ring on her finger:rofl:


----------



## Chaparral

Dexter Morgan said:


> Tell her to pack her bags and go to this pro hockey player's house and ask to move in with him. I'm sure he'll think she is special enough to put a ring on her finger:rofl:


He's married


----------



## Dexter Morgan

chapparal said:


> He's married


Well dammit.

Thats ok, drive her over there with her bags in tow, knock on the door, and when he answers say, "you want to f*** my wife, then you provide for her" and hand him the bags, get in the car alone, lock the doors, and drive away.


----------



## ZeekZealand

staying_strong said:


> I am kind of sad to hear all the remarks on this thread. I totally understand how you feel as I am the BS in my marriage. I only have two young kids (4 and 1 1/2) whose lives would probably not be too affected if my husband and I got divorced today. However, I am a child of divorced parents. I was 13 when my parents got divorced and was there when my mother found out my dad had been cheating on her (for four years). It was the worst thing that could've happened in my childhood. I suffered many years because of that.
> 
> Many people would ask me why I would even consider taking my husband back. The fact of the matter is I still love him. The other major factor is that we have children together. I believe that I owe it to my kids to give it a try to make things work. Does that mean I am going to let him walk all over me and take advantage of me? Absolutely not. I made a vow, I intend on keeping it. But a marriage takes two people and if he wasn't going to be there, then I would not be either. I made it very clear that I would not take him back unless he was committed to making marriage work. I also made it extremely clear that if this were to happen again, there would be no second chances. I will also tell you that an affair is like a drug. People in affairs do not think clearly as they are under the influence. They want more and it can be a difficult thing to break. For most people, it requires hitting rock bottom to realize that they need to get out and make changes to their life.
> 
> Having gone through the emotional rollercoasters that you are going through (only 1 month out from D day), I would have you ask yourself, do you still love your wife? If you do, even a little, I would take more time to really consider working things through with her especially if it seems she wants to. And really the reason for that is for your kids. However, how you work things out really needs to be on your terms. If she can't do the things that you need to heal from the infidelity, then she does not want to be in the marriage badly enough and you have your answer. If she does do everything you ask, then I would give her the opportunity to prove herself. Now she may need time to decide if she wants to be committed to working on the marriage. I would advise that she move out until she has made a decision. I would also strongly advise marriage counseling. You need to figure out why the affair happened and if there were things that were wrong in the marriage (from both parties) that may have contributed.
> 
> In the end things may still not work out, but at least you tried and you owe it to your kids to at least try. I tell myself (and my husband) "if this marriage ends, it won't be because of me, it will be solely because you didn't try hard enough." And I told him that if the kids ever ask why weren't together I would tell them because Daddy gave up and we both would know that that is truth.
> 
> It requires a lot of strength to stick it out in a marriage after an affair. You have to figure out if you are strong enough to do it. But don't stick it out and your wife get away with letting things stay the same. She absolutely has to make changes. And that is a requirement. In the process, you may also find that you may need to make changes too.
> 
> I hope this has been helpful. I know I am going out on limb telling you something different than what other people are telling you. Believe me, I understand the hurt and anger you are going through as I have been through it and am still going through it right now. I am just asking you to think of your children what would really be best for your children (because I have been there too).


Actually this is way more in line with what I've been feeling but the problem is that my wife does not want to commit to changing at all. That's why I'm divorcing her ultimately.


----------



## Chaparral

ZeekZealand said:


> Actually this is way more in line with what I've been feeling but the problem is that my wife does not want to commit to changing at all. That's why I'm divorcing her ultimately.


So she's on board for the divorce now?


----------



## ZeekZealand

chapparal said:


> So she's on board for the divorce now?


Yep. It was too hard for her to lift her fingers a little and actually talk to a psychologist about her issues. It will be 30 days on Wednesday this week and I still feel the same way - like a sledgehammer continues to hit me in the stomach... day after day... Man I wish it would just stop. Hell I didn't even know I loved her this much...


----------



## Chaparral

When the divorce wheels start grinding she may become "enlightened".


----------



## Beowulf

Dexter Morgan said:


> Well dammit.
> 
> Thats ok, drive her over there with her bags in tow, knock on the door, and when he answers say, "you want to f*** my wife, then you provide for her" and hand him the bags, get in the car alone, lock the doors, and drive away.


That is exactly what happened to a coworker of mine. Her H did just what you suggest. It worked! They R and are still together.


----------



## Dexter Morgan

Beowulf said:


> That is exactly what happened to a coworker of mine. Her H did just what you suggest. It worked! They R and are still together.


So did he make it to the OM's doorstep with his wife's belongings?

And actually at that time the whole point would be that I wouldn't want her anymore and really would leave her at the OM's doorstep with her bags.


----------



## Beowulf

Dexter Morgan said:


> So did he make it to the OM's doorstep with his wife's belongings?
> 
> And actually at that time the whole point would be that I wouldn't want her anymore and really would leave her at the OM's doorstep with her bags.


Actually, he took her bags out of the car and dropped them on the OM's lawn. The OM never opened the door. The W started crying hysterically as he drove away. After a few minutes he went back and told her if she wanted to R she had to do it on HIS TERMS. And believe me he ruled her with an iron fist for quite a while until he felt comfortable that she was straight with him. She told me that seeing him drive off was like she had died right there. Talk about a wake up call! I talked to him and he really was willing to let her go right there and then but decided to give her one last chance mostly because of their son.


----------



## vickyyy

Beowulf said:


> Actually, he took her bags out of the car and dropped them on the OM's lawn. The OM never opened the door. The W started crying hysterically as he drove away. After a few minutes he went back and told her if she wanted to R she had to do it on HIS TERMS. And believe me he ruled her with an iron fist for quite a while until he felt comfortable that she was straight with him. She told me that seeing him drive off was like she had died right there. Talk about a wake up call! I talked to him and he really was willing to let her go right there and then but decided to give her one last chance mostly because of their son.


excellent work.simply great.


----------



## Initfortheduration

In the end, the cheater should be asked one final question before the start of the 180. And that is, "What if I was the only one who will love you this much, for the rest of your life?". I like to bring a little reality into the picture.


----------



## SadSamIAm

Didn't she tell the OM that she would have no problem finding a new OM if he dumped her? Not sure which guy she is with, but it certainly isn't her husband. 

He is doing the right thing. Let her go.


----------



## Chaparral

Shaggy said:


> She is still active in the affair. I bet she thinks if she waits the OM will be out in a few months and will take her in. So she is going to drag things waiting for him.
> 
> Hopefully he will find meet another nice guy while he is in jail.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this posted in the right thread? I don't recall the hockey dude going to jail.:scratchhead:


----------



## Chaparral

SadSamIAm said:


> Didn't she tell the OM that she would have no problem finding a new OM if he dumped her? Not sure which guy she is with, but it certainly isn't her husband.
> 
> He is doing the right thing. Let her go.


Zeek, you should ask her about that. Like, "You told POSHD you wouldn't have any trouble finding another cheating partner, had any luck with that yet?"


----------



## tacoma

chapparal said:


> Is this posted in the right thread? I don't recall the hockey dude going to jail.:scratchhead:


Yeah I know.

Shaggy`s post made me re-read that last 4 pages of this thread to see what I missed.

Dammit shaggy!!


----------



## Shaggy

chapparal said:


> Is this posted in the right thread? I don't recall the hockey dude going to jail.:scratchhead:


Guilty as charged. Sorry folks,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrK

chapparal said:


> Is this posted in the right thread? I don't recall the hockey dude going to jail.:scratchhead:


That would have been cool. I was getting ready to Google it.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Well the nail in the coffin happen yesterday. While I was looking for chocolate in the top of my closet, because I hide it there from my kids, I found a plastic bag with all the lingerie my wife had worn with her OM. She had promised me she had thrown all of it away and when I confronted her about it she said she didn't want to get rid of it because she still loved him. 

Not like I wasn't going through with the D anyways, but talk about a cherry on top. 

In the end I know I will be happier. I just hope there's an honest woman in this world who can be my life partner. I thought I had one already.

The plot thickens...


----------



## Eli-Zor

Walk her to the door and say goodbye
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Dadof3

I think when u confronted her with it, you should have had it sauceed and flambayed in a frying pan till it turned to carbon.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Sad, one day when it hits her that the OM does not love her and she was chasing a fantasy, that she has no one to love, support and console her , her world is going to fall apart. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Halien

ZeekZealand said:


> Well the nail in the coffin happen yesterday. While I was looking for chocolate in the top of my closet, because I hide it there from my kids, I found a plastic bag with all the lingerie my wife had worn with her OM. She had promised me she had thrown all of it away and when I confronted her about it she said she didn't want to get rid of it because she still loved him.
> 
> Not like I wasn't going through with the D anyways, but talk about a cherry on top.
> 
> In the end I know I will be happier. I just hope there's an honest woman in this world who can be my life partner. I thought I had one already.
> 
> The plot thickens...


Does she even have a clue that you are divorcing her, or does she think you wouldn't consider it? Maybe you covered this, so I apoligize if so. There just seems to be such a rude awakening coming, and considering how she struggles with functioning normally on her own, seems like you'd be getting the opposite treatment.


----------



## Shaggy

Burn the lingere right in Front of her.

Wow, is she mentally challenged?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## aug

ZeekZealand said:


> Well the nail in the coffin happen yesterday. While I was looking for chocolate in the top of my closet, because I hide it there from my kids, I found a plastic bag with all the lingerie my wife had worn with her OM. She had promised me she had thrown all of it away and when I confronted her about it she said she didn't want to get rid of it because she still loved him.
> 
> Not like I wasn't going through with the D anyways, but talk about a cherry on top.
> 
> In the end I know I will be happier. I just hope there's an honest woman in this world who can be my life partner. I thought I had one already.
> 
> The plot thickens...



So you missed these lingeries when you did her laundry out on the lawn in the early morning?


----------



## calif_hope

Hid her stash next to your chocolate stash....clearly she wanted you to find them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

Better idea, take her affair clothes downtown an donate them to a street walker. Bonus points if you do it with her in the car.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vickyyy

You can do thing like mentioned in other thread like packing her bags and dumping her and her clothes in front of OM house.


----------



## Shaggy

vickyyy said:


> You can do thing like mentioned in other thread like packing her bags and dumping her and her clothes in front of OM house.


Yeah but he already dumped her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Zeek,
The nail in the coffin was the email, the find was just more dirt on top of it.
Take care of your self and remember keep your cards close and never show your hand.

Go dark or show your STBXW that you are a better actor then she is and when she least expects it slap her with those papers. 

At this point why even bother confronting her about her shinanagains? Trust me , there will be more!


----------



## Initfortheduration

Zeek, when you found your wife's lingerie, and she said she can't help it because she loves him. That's when her e-mail needed to come out. You need clear this up with her, by methodically showing how she doesn't love anyone. Give her the example of your loving family. Tell her:

"Well you obviously proved that you don't love me or your family. Then as I read your e-mail you talk about finding someone ELSE to have sex with. So you obviously don't love him. And you say that you have enough lingerie. So in truth, you were actually saving it so you don't have buy more. I must say, come to think of it, that really is practical. I mean I am sure wh0res don't throw away their lingerie every time they skrew someone new. No you really should keep it. I mean I will most assuredly never touch your skank a$$ again. You had better get to work finding someone else, you need to find a place to show your wears. I'll throw some busy corners your way. Don't bother to thank me."

Get the divorce, get the kids, get free.


----------



## lordmayhem

15 years of marriage and 5 kids. 

And she has to prove to herself that she's still desirable to other men. She already got that validation from Zeek, she just needs it from other men. Sometimes it really is all about the wayward.


----------



## morituri

lordmayhem said:


> Sometimes it really is all about the wayward.


Sometimes? I would dare to say it is always about the unfaithful spouse. Why? Because there are plenty of marriages where the 'emotional needs' are not being met yet the spouses never cheat even when opportunities present themselves to do so.

A wife who wants sexual validation from other men is no different than a male philanderer and should be just as equally excoriated.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Man I wish I could say I feel better... But I still feel like the day it happen. Everyone keeps telling me time will heal it but it has not and isn't. I'm just so f**king sad. 

With that being said; I've joined a gym, workout 6 times a week... Served the divorce papers while the wifey was with her family for Christmas. 

I've rented a house for the time being and moved out with my two oldest kids (they want nothing to do with her). <--- Very sad.

But I still have a broken heart the size of Manhatten. I just want this pain to go away. 

Geez I sound pathetic but this was just so hurtful and unbelievable.


----------



## TDSC60

You just found about the affair about a month ago. The wound is still very fresh. The pain will lessen with time. Concentrate on yourself and your kids.


----------



## Powerbane

Definitely take care of you and the kids. 

Time will lessen this pain. Just give it time and work on yourself and be there for your kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## The 13th_Floor

ZeekZealand said:


> Man I wish I could say I feel better... But I still feel like the day it happen. Everyone keeps telling me time will heal it but it has not and isn't. I'm just so f**king sad.
> 
> With that being said; I've joined a gym, workout 6 times a week... Served the divorce papers while the wifey was with her family for Christmas.
> 
> I've rented a house for the time being and moved out with my two oldest kids (they want nothing to do with her). <--- Very sad.
> 
> But I still have a broken heart the size of Manhatten. I just want this pain to go away.
> 
> Geez I sound pathetic but this was just so hurtful and unbelievable.


I was right where you were 10 months ago. The feeling blows. It's shocking. I smoked a pack of cigarettes a day for months... and I don't even smoke. The pain started subsiding after about 6 months. I only had 1 kid though, and you moved forward very quickly with divorce. I give it 3 months until you're able to enjoy your life again, and you will, trust me.


----------



## Chaparral

ZeekZealand said:


> Man I wish I could say I feel better... But I still feel like the day it happen. Everyone keeps telling me time will heal it but it has not and isn't. I'm just so f**king sad.
> 
> With that being said; I've joined a gym, workout 6 times a week... Served the divorce papers while the wifey was with her family for Christmas.
> 
> I've rented a house for the time being and moved out with my two oldest kids (they want nothing to do with her). <--- Very sad.
> 
> But I still have a broken heart the size of Manhatten. I just want this pain to go away.
> 
> Geez I sound pathetic but this was just so hurtful and unbelievable.


Number one ... you don't sound pathetic at all. Quite the opposite , you sound like a real man thats taking care of an unfortunate business. Like a person who has been stabbed in the back by his best friend. A friend who is not repentant and is glad she did it.

I consider you lucky in that you have your children to help you through this.

You will get over this in time. While everyone is proud of you, from here your life is going to spiral upward. Setbacks sure but you are agood person and you will do better.

Your wife on the other hand, has literally walked herself off the plank. When she fully realizes what she has done, become a groupy for a second rate, married athlete, I truly fear for her future. Reality will not be kind to your STBXW. Your boat may be struggleing but your wifes boat is sinking fast.

Good luck to You and your's.

Chap


----------



## the guy

:iagree:
You are stepping up and taking care of business, way to go!

This crap didn't happen over night, so healing won't either. Its not what knocks us down that matters, it how we get back up that counts.


----------



## Initfortheduration

Zeek, you are doing whats right, even if the pain is killing you. That's being a man. Stay strong.


----------



## ZeekZealand

I need some advice. I am probably going to answer my own questions in my questions but maybe I just need some motivation.

I have not stopped seeing my wife, I am being so weak. I have convinced myself that we can work it out when nothing has changed. She weaves in and out of committing to work it out as I do, still acting like she has feelings for him.

I have definitely started feeling like the most difficult part (in terms of pain) is over, but I cannot stop making the images I've put together of them having sex out of my mind. Apparently his penis was the largest she's ever had, that came out in a fit of anger the other night. Not that I'm worried about myself but it sure as hell doesn't make things better.

I need the strength to end this. How in the hell do I find it in myself to just walk away. I keep going back and forth between thinking about how we've been together for 15 years with 5 children (all in grade school except for my 2 year old with autism) and how hard it's going to be to find a way to officially split up without destroying my kids' lives. 

Dammit I wish I knew how to do this. I just can't seem to fall out of the spell she has me under. I feel so pathetic.


----------



## Chaparral

What you are going through is completely understandable.

Can't help much but would like to say about his "big" size. What she says is just something to get under your skin. Angry women pull this SH!t all the time.

I'm guessing she will get over him sooner or later since he dumped her in the first place and he's married. 

Look at it this way and remind her of it, he is just a lousy, a$$hole, cheater and you are a honest, moral, wonderful, father and husband that can be trusted.


----------



## bryanp

If you think it is bad now just wait until it happens again. Sorry but she sounds like a groupie. God I hope you have been tested for STD's. You know the guy was a big time player. If the roles were reversed do you think your wife would be so forgiving to the humiliation and betrayal that you have endured?


----------



## calif_hope

First, a desire to reconcile or not, you need to start acting like you don't need her, that you will do ok without her. As long as you are under her spell - she has you, shake it off, man up, hit the gym, buy new clothes (without her), go out without her, and demonstrate that you are planning a life without her......seperating financed, debt, etc.. 

Shake it off........after 5 kids can't you come up with some zingers about her vajayjay!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## morituri

Implement *The 180 Degrees Rules* now.


----------



## Chaparral

calif_hope said:


> First, a desire to reconcile or not, you need to start acting like you don't need her, that you will do ok without her. As long as you are under her spell - she has you, shake it off, man up, hit the gym, buy new clothes (without her), go out without her, and demonstrate that you are planning a life without her......seperating financed, debt, etc..
> 
> Shake it off........after 5 kids can't you come up with some zingers about her vajayjay!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OMG


----------



## always_hopefull

ZeekZealand said:


> I need some advice. I am probably going to answer my own questions in my questions but maybe I just need some motivation.
> 
> I have not stopped seeing my wife, I am being so weak. I have convinced myself that we can work it out when nothing has changed. She weaves in and out of committing to work it out as I do, still acting like she has feelings for him.
> 
> I have definitely started feeling like the most difficult part (in terms of pain) is over, but I cannot stop making the images I've put together of them having sex out of my mind. Apparently his penis was the largest she's ever had, that came out in a fit of anger the other night. Not that I'm worried about myself but it sure as hell doesn't make things better.
> 
> I need the strength to end this. How in the hell do I find it in myself to just walk away.* I keep going back and forth between thinking about how we've been together for 15 years with 5 children (all in grade school except for my 2 year old with autism) and how hard it's going to be to find a way to officially split up without destroying my kids' lives. *
> 
> Dammit I wish I knew how to do this. I just can't seem to fall out of the spell she has me under. I feel so pathetic.


To be brutally honest with you, you really can't leave her without it effecting the lives of your children. I myself have four kids, 16, 14 and twins 12, the 14 year old has Asperger's, so I know how hard the decision is, and how much harder it is to follow through. Dday for me was 14 months ago, divorce was finalized 4 months ago and I kicked my exh out two weeks before Xmas because he was still in contact with one of his sexting buddies. Everyday is a struggle, every day comes with a new pang of guilt and pain. However, everyday ends and a new one begins, bringing a little more hope than the last day. I push forward an hour at a time because I know in my heart it is the right thing to do, that there is so much water over the bridge, that it is down there with the Titanic. Be strong, get yourself some IC to help with the guilt and doubts. Take each day one day at a time, look forward, not back. Be strong for your children because no matter how hard you think this is for them, being in a toxic family is ever harder.


----------



## morituri

always_hopefull said:


> To be brutally honest with you, you really can't leave her without it effecting the lives of your children.


So, unlike you and because of his children's ages, are you saying that he should suck it up and remain married to her? Please clarify.


----------



## always_hopefull

morituri said:


> So, unlike you and because of his children's ages, are you saying that he should suck it up and remain married to her? Please clarify.


No, I am not saying he needs to suck it up and stay. Quite the contrary, I think staying in a relationship like that will do more harm to his children then leaving would. I just know its hard and a daily struggle and having a child with special needs can make it harder.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

It looks to me like Zeek is trying to figure out how to get his wife out of the fog and rebuild his family as a whole. Breaking up a family of 7 almost looks as hard or harder as trying to save it.

Although Z has said his wife still has feelings for the OM, he doesn't say if she is wanting to rebuild the marriage. On the upside, sooner or later she is more than likely going to to hate the OM for what he has done to her and her family if/when she comes out of this fog completely.

The question is what has he tried to do to accomplish this?

Have they done counseling, is he doing the 180, have they been reading recommended books?

One off the wall idea I had was to inlist the OM himself. OM pleaded with Z not to out him because of his sports career. OM , if motivated, (threatened properly with media exposure) could be persuaded to tell WW what he "really" thought of WW as just a piece of a$$ etc. 

I doubt a story in the media about a player who broke up a marriage with five small children in it,one with special needs and a wife with issues, would be ignored by the nearest TV news outlet.

All Zeek would have to tell OM is that he is in contact with WXYZ and he could call the tune. Of course there is the chance to get even too.


----------



## lordmayhem

ZeekZealand said:


> I need some advice. I am probably going to answer my own questions in my questions but maybe I just need some motivation.
> 
> I have not stopped seeing my wife, I am being so weak. I have convinced myself that we can work it out when nothing has changed. She weaves in and out of committing to work it out as I do, still acting like she has feelings for him.
> 
> I have definitely started feeling like the most difficult part (in terms of pain) is over, but I cannot stop making the images I've put together of them having sex out of my mind. Apparently his penis was the largest she's ever had, that came out in a fit of anger the other night. Not that I'm worried about myself but it sure as hell doesn't make things better.
> 
> I need the strength to end this. How in the hell do I find it in myself to just walk away. I keep going back and forth between thinking about how we've been together for 15 years with 5 children (all in grade school except for my 2 year old with autism) and how hard it's going to be to find a way to officially split up without destroying my kids' lives.
> 
> Dammit I wish I knew how to do this. I just can't seem to fall out of the spell she has me under. I feel so pathetic.


You're on the low point of the emotional roller coaster ride and only a couple of weeks past DDay#2 (discovery of the affair lingerie). This is quite normal. One moment you find your anger and you cant stand the sight of her and the next moment you want to work things out. This is what you need to do:


Implement the 180 morituri and others have been telling you to do
STOP asking her about committing to the marriage. She's still deep in the fog. NOTHING will get through to her right now. You served her divorce papers already and she's still deep in the fog.
STOP arguing with her. All this does is bring out hurtful statements, like the big penis statement. Stop engaging her. You've filed for divorce already. You should not be having discussions with her like this at this point. Go dark now.
Seek individual counselling and get on meds if you need to.

You moved to an apartment with your 2 eldest children who want nothing to do with her. Seeing as how she's still deep in the fog despite you serving her divorce papers indicates that she's VERY deep into this affair. This suggests that she is still in contact with this OM. I haven't had the chance to re-read the thread, but have you exposed the OM at this point?


----------



## Chaparral

The 180
April 15 2011 at 8:48 AM Ami (Login Amistandingstill)
Healing Moderator 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So many on here are at a loss at what to do with a WS who is
fence sitting, cake-eating, ignoring boundaries, still seeing and/or contacting the other person, etc...

Many BS's are urged to go No Contact with their WS after ALL ELSE has failed.


This 180 list may help.
--------------------------


For those that are interested in Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow him/her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him/her someone he/she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and possibly walk away.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.


2 things to think about if you do this:

1) You have to do the 180 list NOT to be manipulative but because it's the right thing to do for you. You have to heal from this experience. You have to back off for your own sanity now. You have to have a plan and know that you will be a better person with or without them after all is said and done -- that you will live and learn and move on no matter what. So you have to be geniune when you follow these ideas, rather than faking it and being insincere because your only goal is to get them back. That's not what you want to do. Having a certain person as our spouse is not a need, it's a want. When I wrote down a list of all the definite needs in my life, I realized that almost everything beyond food, clothing and shelter is a want. 10 seconds after I looked at the list, I stopped making decisions based on emotion. That's when I realized that my wanting to have her was causing me to beg and plead for her to come back. That was driving her away more so I stopped doing it immediately. In doing my own version of the 180 list I could tell nearly an immediate change in her behavior.

2) Realize that when your spouse sees your new attitude they are very likely to be a little jealous or at least have some curiosity about what's going on in your life to cause this change. However, they very well may react the same way towards you for some time (especially if they read books or go to message boards also). REALIZE that this tactic can also work simultaneously on you if the spouse begins to likewise. Be aware of it and plan to have your own feelings of jealousy and curiosity in advance. However, like with #1 above, if you're doing the 180 list to better yourself and everyone involved, then it will matter less what they are doing.


----------



## Shaggy

Zeek, 

If you want to try to R, then that is what you should do. However - do it only in the way that will help prevent her cheating again.

She's still not showing remorse by the sound of it. she's very much defending her choice to cheat and even sounds like she's throwing him in your face.

Seriously, doesn't this woman have a clue or a heart?

I remember in your story, that you originally were being her goto lapdop for taking care of her and all her issues. 

Step 1: Refuse to be that support puppy. She seems perfectly able to take care of things herself. So let her.

Step 2: Get, Read, Live - No More Mr.Nice Guy. It is your new guru and handbook.

Step 3: Stop asking her to commit to the marriage. Instead act like she has, and when she acts in a way which is not in line with that. In a calm voice tell her that's won't fly, and refuse to enable her behavior.

Step 4: As I recall she's a SAHM. You need to take full control of the family money and cut her off from free cash to play with.

Step 5: Trust but verify. It's likely she will go fishing for another affair - be ready to find it fast, and cut her off asap. Perhaps have papers ready to hand to her next time.


----------



## Chaparral

Is she still refusing to go to a psychologist? The 180 works wonders for everyone that's tried it on these threads. Haveyou tried it? One of the side effects is that it most likely will get your wifes attention in a serious way. Even if she doesn't come around it can literally make you a new man.


----------



## xrayz

I am going to reply later from my laptop. Trying to type all this from my phone is impossible. My husband cheated on me more than once and was very cruel and really hurt his children and I but after going thru the * stages of dealing with death( the death of the marriage I thought we had) I am still with him and he is a completely different person with 200% transparency. I know most of the time it doesn't end like ours did but I fought and he decided on what he wanted and we both made changes. There is a lot of damage that can never be removed and our marriage is like a vase which was perfect and got shattered then glued back together with all the scars and imperfections now. That's one of the results. But I am happy. Our kids are happy and we just had another baby. It can sometimes turn around......
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xrayz

Also, I haven't read the 180 but I am assuming it refers to you making a 180 in how you interact with her. I had to do that. I had at one time had my husband on a pedestal. After everything he did it changed my perception of him and he totally lost the companionship we had. He got absolutely nothing from me but very businesslike behaviour. He knew I meant business and he was about to lose everything. I wanted him to change his phone number...the number he took over when his brother died so it had his brothers voice on it..and he of course used his dead brother as an excuse but I was non tolerant of any and all excuses for him not to do exactly what I demanded. He either did it or bye bye. I also demanded all phone records and I created my own pw to his accnt. I mean of course he bucked against making all these changes and there were a lot but when he finally decided he wanted to have his family and have a partner for life to grow old with instead of being a perpetual playboy he did what I asked and he did it with a good attitude. He finally took ownership of what HE had done and knew that HE would have to deal with the consequences.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xrayz

He also had a Facebook account which I made him delete. I think fb is an easy way for ppl to cheat. I have a fb page with a pic of both of us and he has the pw because I can be trusted with fb and he has proven that he cannot so there again I treat him like the child he became when he was unable to exert adult like behaviour and control his own body and not cheat...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xrayz

I just read some of the 180 list and the way I behaved after the cheating was pretty much in line with that. I honestly DID have an awakening and I became disgusted by my husband to the point that I honestly didn't like him anymore and didn't mind if we lived together as strangers. I stopped checking up on him..I stopped asking him to prove this or that..to leave his phone out ...to give me phone records...to change his number...to come completely clean..to give me email pw..to delete fb. He knew what my terms were and I wanted someone who loved me enough and wanted this family enough to do those things without being forced to. If he wasn't going to do it then I was done with him. Oh boy how he hates that!! He was taken aback that his little charming ways were having no effect on me. I would not be swayed from my rules. I stuck to my guns even though at times I wanted to give in because I knew that if I gave in this time our marriage would be over because he would know he could get away with it again. I waited...he like a stubborn child tried and tried ringer his way but just like on Intervention anything he said besides what I had set forth was noise and I would not listen to it. I treated his tendency to cheat as if that was a drug he was addicted to. I even joined some online AA and sex addict anon groups which had a tremendous amount of good reading which really helped me make changes in myself which eventually led to his changes. I feel like when a person cheats it is similar to a drug addict. They are addicted to the rush and highs they feel. Just like the hard love u would give an addict I did the same with husband and yay...it worked...took awhile and he fought but in the end he decided we were more important that his temporary fixes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

xrayz said:


> I just read some of the 180 list and the way I behaved after the cheating was pretty much in line with that. I honestly DID have an awakening and I became disgusted by my husband to the point that I honestly didn't like him anymore and didn't mind if we lived together as strangers. I stopped checking up on him..I stopped asking him to prove this or that..to leave his phone out ...to give me phone records...to change his number...to come completely clean..to give me email pw..to delete fb. He knew what my terms were and I wanted someone who loved me enough and wanted this family enough to do those things without being forced to. If he wasn't going to do it then I was done with him. Oh boy how he hates that!! He was taken aback that his little charming ways were having no effect on me. I would not be swayed from my rules. I stuck to my guns even though at times I wanted to give in because I knew that if I gave in this time our marriage would be over because he would know he could get away with it again. I waited...he like a stubborn child tried and tried ringer his way but just like on Intervention anything he said besides what I had set forth was noise and I would not listen to it. I treated his tendency to cheat as if that was a drug he was addicted to. I even joined some online AA and sex addict anon groups which had a tremendous amount of good reading which really helped me make changes in myself which eventually led to his changes. I feel like when a person cheats it is similar to a drug addict. They are addicted to the rush and highs they feel. Just like the hard love u would give an addict I did the same with husband and yay...it worked...took awhile and he fought but in the end he decided we were more important that his temporary fixes.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Could you explain this to Imjustlost? I think it would help in his sitch. Thanks

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/37450-ultimatum-day-enough-enough.html


----------



## xrayz

I actually don't think he has reached that point yet. It took my husband doing a lot of hurtful crap and me making excuses to myself for his behaviour, even trying to change myself in some way to be whomever it was that he would rather be with. I finally just woke up..I had an awakening and I saw him as a person with some serious issues and I even began to consider him beneath me because of his mental weakness. I hate weakness in a man so when I changed my perception of him wow it totally changed the way I thought about myself. I am in no way unattractive, have a college degree, am a loyal and faithful wife and make more money that he does. I realized his cheating wasn't MY problem, it was his. I think this guy has suffered a damage in his confidence and self esteem. Honestly, what began to help me heal and become a strong unbending person was doing a lot of reading from slaa( sex love addicts anonymous). It gave me tools to see how unhealthy my dependency and addiction to him had become. That I would tolerate anything he did and lie to myself about the reality of the situation. I got hardball about what I would and wouldn't accept from him to myself. My sister has been going thru the same crap with her husband and she isn't ready yet either. She complains, cries, threatens and so on when her husband cheats and doesn't come home but she hasn't reached her rock bottom which is what it took for me to make changes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## xrayz

I was able to stop checking up on everything with my husband because I just didn't care. I mean what was that going to do? Plus it makes me look weak and dependent still on him. I didn't need to check up on him anymore because I would know when he was being honest. I would know because I wouldn't be constantly second guessing and questioning myself, trying to convince myself that his lies were truth. The freedom you feel when you just say screw it...I have more to do with my life than treat someone like a child and deal with all this anxiety and worry. I felt so free when I stopped worrying. He would either change or he wouldn't and either way I was moving on, growing as a human, learning about myself and healing. He could be a part of that or not.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

Zeek, the 180 will protect you if you follow it. Please stop the emotional torture. If your going to torture your self do with the 180 plan. It tough but it beats all the emotional crap your chick is throwing at you.

The limbo, the second guessing, the confussion.......please find a focus and that is the 180 plan.


----------



## ZeekZealand

Ok it's been awhile so I decided to give everyone an update. 

I've moved into an apartment where I have been able to slowly gain back my sanity. There's still not a day that passes that I don't think about the details of the affair but the pain has started to slowly go away. I still see her a lot to exchange the kids and now that the fairy tale is over she's working very hard to get me back.

I just don't know. Once I found out about the affair as you all know how it feels I was treated with such cruelty and anger that it absolutely destroyed my self-confidence, happiness, hope... I was pretty much walking death for 3 months. I would probably rather lose my arm then go through this again and I know you all know what I'm talking about.

I just need the strength to end this forever. I want to just tell her I don't every want you again, please just leave me alone but this sounds so sad... I don't want to hurt her feelings.

Yes after all she put me through... I still don't want to hurt her.

There's about 1% of me that wants to give her a second chance but I know that it will lead to the same abuse and the same hell I lived it I just need the strength to move on.


----------



## bryanp

You are clearly one of the good guys. Just be truthful and say that this was the ultimate deal breaker for you. Tell her if the roles had been reversed I am sure you would have felt the same way. Tell her you do not have any desire to be involved with a woman who would humiliate, disrespect and show such scorn for a husband. She gave herself permission to destroy a marriage and a spouse and now she must live with the consequences. I guess the puck is not any better on the other side of the net. Good luck.


----------



## Initfortheduration

ZeekZealand said:


> What a perfect phrase.... BLAME SHIFTING. That must be the most exquisite term I've heard to describe what is happening to me on the planet.
> 
> Actually it comes and goes in waves, her behavior I mean. I wanted to test her yesterday, to find out if all that she was saying was bullsh*t. Her reaction is what finally made me decide to leave.
> 
> *The story.*
> 
> Right after the affair I was in a scatter-brained panic to hurt my W so I kicked off a message on Facebook to a old squeeze who has been chasing me down since her divorce 3 years ago. I've consistently told her we will only be friends and her messages were inappropriate considering I'm a married man with 5 children (because that's what f*cking married people do). But this particular night, the night right after I found out, I told her I needed to get my wife back for cheating and asked if she wanted meet at a hotel. She agreed but within 20 minutes I came to my senses and messaged her again to apologize for my behavior, that I was wrong to have messaged her and told her that was a terrible idea.
> 
> Either way the second message was a different message on Facebook and I purposely left the first message on my screen when I knew my wife would be sitting at my desk to watch Ghost Adventures Friday night.
> 
> After my W sat down I waited for about 2 minutes and she came storming in the room telling me it's f*cking over and she wants to sign the divorce papers. That I was a liar and that sex with the OM was so much better than we have ever had. How could I do that to her and a bunch of other similar comments. The comment I remember the most was, "Just because I had an affair doesn't mean you can."
> 
> Bingo. That's all I needed to hear. I of-course showed her the second message where I cancelled and said it was a bad idea. I also asked her why she shifted from perfect, sweet wifey to angry, hateful - "I can have an affair but how dare you even consider it!" wifey. She started telling me that I was deceptive and mean. Now THAT'S the woman I know.
> 
> It was all an act. Her reaction said enough. If she was truly sorry she would have felt horrible for what she had caused me to do and blamed herself. Or at least not said such hurtful things.
> 
> Yes it was a dirty trick but sh*t man, my life was riding on her acting job and I had to know if she was being authentic.
> 
> Anyways, the drama continues... Stay tuned.


Just wanted you to read this again. In case you are feeling weak. Stay strong my friend.


----------



## TDSC60

ZeekZealand said:


> Ok it's been awhile so I decided to give everyone an update.
> 
> I've moved into an apartment where I have been able to slowly gain back my sanity. There's still not a day that passes that I don't think about the details of the affair but the pain has started to slowly go away. I still see her a lot to exchange the kids and now that the fairy tale is over she's working very hard to get me back.
> 
> I just don't know. Once I found out about the affair as you all know how it feels I was treated with such cruelty and anger that it absolutely destroyed my self-confidence, happiness, hope... I was pretty much walking death for 3 months. I would probably rather lose my arm then go through this again and I know you all know what I'm talking about.
> 
> I just need the strength to end this forever. I want to just tell her I don't every want you again, please just leave me alone but this sounds so sad... I don't want to hurt her feelings.
> 
> Yes after all she put me through... I still don't want to hurt her.
> 
> There's about 1% of me that wants to give her a second chance but I know that it will lead to the same abuse and the same hell I lived it I just need the strength to move on.


You know you need to move on for your sanity. You know you cannot stay with this woman after what she did to you. You know she intentionally destroyed your health and mind without a second thought. She is evil.

Do not think that you are hurting her feeling. Her feelings do not matter at this point. You have to protect yourself. Whatever she feels about the situation now is a result of her affair - she did it to herself - you are not doing anything to her - you are simply healing yourself.


----------



## Initfortheduration

I would also say that her regret and sorrow over this is transitory too. I will bet that when they trade kids, she is like all about reconciliation. But like Zeek said. As soon as he is not there, she is thinking on something or someone else. Her family is rich, they will take care of her. Zeek needs to take care of the kids. Hell he is the only normal parent they have.


----------



## Chaparral

Thanks for the update Zeek. How is she trying to win you back? How are the kids doing?


----------



## jnj express

Hold your line---you don't need anymore of the insanity she brings with her

She wants to win you back---I'm sure she does---YOU ARE THE MEALTICKET------When she ends up finally D., she knows her life will become he*l----she will work long and hard, just to maybe break even----she won't have the time, to go out screwing around with other men----she will still have to come home to the kids, take care of the kids, take care of her digs-----and try to conjure up some greenback dollars to live on---It ain't gonna be easy for her----sure she wants to come back

She will not go a day the rest of her life regretting what she has done to everyone around her---INCLUDING HERSELF

Stand tall, the sun will come up manana


----------



## AFEH

I think all that emotional pain we go through is there for an exceptionally good reason. And the reason is that we just don’t ever take the chance of going through it all over again. I think this is much like getting third degree burns through playing with fire, or an enormously big electric shock. The pain is there to say YES, you have been very badly hurt. Don’t do it again.


We should learn from our pain.


And then time is a great healer, it really is. In a year or so you’ll still be feeling the same emotions but the strength and depth of them will be nothing like they are now.


You are still grieving. You’ve a while to go as yet. If it has really ended for you, you do need to tell your wife in no uncertain terms such that she drops the subject and leaves you alone from that point of view. If you don’t want to tell her yourself because of the emotions involved, ask family or a friend to tell her.


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

You just escaped from a cheating merciless, disrespectful wife. She dont deserve any empathy. Just let her know that you can NEVER take her back.
She did the most cruel thing to you knowing all the good things you did for her. She is mentally sick, she dont deserve a husband like you. She now realized, it is not easy to find out a man like you to manipulate and harras with her mental sickness.

What she is doing to get you back?

Dont fall back as a prey for her again.


----------



## morituri

Don't allow your ordeal to put you on a path of self destructiveness. Take care of yourself by pursuing the things that you wanted to do but couldn't because you were married. Get plenty of sleep (go see a doctor if you can't), eat healthy, exercise, reduce your alcohol consumption, buy new clothes, get a new haircut, and start going out with friends (join a club if you don't have any). Do these things and you will find out pretty soon how irrelevant your stbxw truly is to your personal happiness and well being.


----------



## ArmyofJuan

ZeekZealand said:


> I just need the strength to end this forever. I want to just tell her I don't every want you again, please just leave me alone but this sounds so sad... I don't want to hurt her feelings.
> 
> Yes after all she put me through... I still don't want to hurt her.


She doesn't deserve any respect and anything nice you do/say for her is basically rewarding her for cheating on you. 

She walk on you and spit in your face and you are concerned about hurting her feelings? She doesn't respect you because you don't stand up for yourself, even if that means standing up to her. 

You will never be able to hurt her like she hurt you so don't worry about her "feelings", assuming she has any...


----------



## morituri

You grieve for a woman who never existed.


----------



## AFEH

morituri said:


> You grieve for a woman who never existed.


Surely she did. Partly in reality and partly in his imagination.


Don’t we all do that? Or was it just me? It's much to do with the pedastal, partly real and partly imagined. Things we see and things we don't see.


----------

