# Should my girlfriend expect me to watch her kids?



## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm recently divorced and dating a woman who has two kids, 7 and 9. She's divorced as well and we've been dating for several months and get along really well. In addition, her kids really like me and me them. I like spending time with them, and we spend about half of our together time with her kids. I really like her 9 year old daughter, but her 7 year old son has some serious behavioral issues and is manipulative and throws tantrums, so while we get along well, it's hard to relax around him. My GF works in a demanding job and managing the kids with her Ex can be a challenge. My kids are grown and, while I enjoy spending time with her and the kids, I would like to spend more time with her alone and I think she's starting to resent that I don't want to spend time alone with her kids helping out by picking them up after school, watching them so she can workout or even taking them on snow days or off school days. I think if I open that door, she'll start expecting me to have more and more responsibility for them and resent if I say no, and I'll resent her for expecting me to take care of her kids all the time and maybe feel like she's taking advantage of me. 

What is the norm on this? It must come up more often nowadays. Is it reasonable for her to expect me to take care of her kids as part of the relationship?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the2ofus (Jan 28, 2014)

I would think it depends on where you see the relationship going.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

If you're living together and expect to stay together, I can see where she's coming from, but it's still rude. However, think of how awkward it is to get child care not knowing when your boyfriend is going to be home...if you're sharing a place and you're not going to watch her kids, what is the sitter going to do if the place where you're living isn't big enough, that's just weird and awkward for everyone...you and the sitter and the kids and their mom.

If you're living separately I think it depends how much of her time you are asking for. If she is having to pay or would have to pay a sitter to pick up the slack for her in order to free up her free time for you, then you should at least offer to contribute to a sitter if you want that extra time from her. 

Also you shouldn't be picking up the slack for the ex. 

Snow days and stuff like that...she needs to get her own plan! If you never offered then she should never have asked. 

Sounds like you need to really get a grip too on how ready she might be on the whole for a relationship, her kids aren't going to grow up in a hurry, there are a lot of years ahead. If one is having some problems, and you're not willing to really commit and become or try to become a part of the solution, the kindest thing to do would be to back off and let her manage her own family situation on her own, and see her only when she has free time. I would not even offer to help out with a sitter. It will s*ck for her in the short term, but you are only delaying her full experience of her reality...which is to be head of a household with her responsibility first to her kids and to herself, and time for someone else only when all of the above duties are taken care of.

I only date infrequently myself and then only people who are willing to wait for when I have a free weekend. What I like most in a man is the confidence he has in me to manage my own life without him butting in. And his respect for the time I need to do that, and knowing that he values me so much that he is willing to wait for me to take care of my primary responsibilities before I go out to play.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> If you're living together and expect to stay together, I can see where she's coming from, but it's still rude. However, think of how awkward it is to get child care not knowing when your boyfriend is going to be home...if you're sharing a place and you're not going to watch her kids, what is the sitter going to do if the place where you're living isn't big enough, that's just weird and awkward for everyone...you and the sitter and the kids and their mom.
> 
> If you're living separately I think it depends how much of her time you are asking for. If she is having to pay or would have to pay a sitter to pick up the slack for her in order to free up her free time for you, then you should at least offer to contribute to a sitter if you want that extra time from her.
> 
> ...


Thanks homemaker. We aren't living together. I try to accommodate her schedule and give her the space she needs. Time off without the kids or me. I'll go to her place and make dinner for them, or take them out. I cover on short stuff, but she seems to take any reluctance to spend time with her kids as a criticism of them or lack of commitment. It's a pretty sensitive area.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Given that your kids are grown and her kids are younger, I'm going to guess she's a good bit younger than you. If you're going to date someone younger that often means dealing with their kids; if you don't want that you should consider someone a little older, or with older kids. Since you're just dating, I get that you don't want to get involved in raising her kids but understand that she's probably looking for someone that's willing to be involved. My hb's daughter was 16 when we met and mine were 2 and 5 (we're 19 years apart). I didn't expect him to pick up any slack but after we'd been together a while he did start helping me out. I think you should consider whether you're comfortable mixing with her kids long term because you're going to have to do that. If you don't want a lifestyle that involves kids you should consider looking for someone else. It's a tough situation.
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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> Given that your kids are grown and her kids are younger, I'm going to guess she's a good bit younger than you. If you're going to date someone younger that often means dealing with their kids; if you don't want that you should consider someone a little older, or with older kids. Since you're just dating, I get that you don't want to get involved in raising her kids but understand that she's probably looking for someone that's willing to be involved. My hb's daughter was 16 when we met and mine were 2 and 5 (we're 19 years apart). I didn't expect him to pick up any slack but after we'd been together a while he did start helping me out. I think you should consider whether you're comfortable mixing with her kids long term because you're going to have to do that. If you don't want a lifestyle that involves kids you should consider looking for someone else. It's a tough situation.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks for the response. I know what you're saying and I did consider that going in. I am 9 years older than her, but I had my kids very young and she was 34 when she had her first, so there's a large spread between our kid's ages. I don't dislike the idea of raising kids again as it adds a dynamic to life that I've honestly missed. I do worry about her son's behavioral problems getting worse into his teens and becoming a bigger problem, but I'm not off handedly opposed to raising her children or committing more time to them in the future. I just want to establish a solid foundation with her first and am not sure if that's possible while sharing so much of her with the kids. I suspect this will be an issue to some degree with anyone I date who has younger children. The joys of dating mid-life. I just was wondering if there was a protocol for this sort of thing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## wise (Sep 1, 2013)

I would honestly think about cutting your ties. 

It seems as you are in the beginning stage of resentment that you do not get enough time alone with your GF. It only gets worse. Her kids will always come first and she is implying that message by wanting you to watch them MORE often. You have only been dating for several months and you both do not live together. It is bizarre that she wants you to pick them up from school and watch them while she goes to the gym. 

Be careful, my friend. Long term = she may be looking for a secure guy who is good with her kids, rather than a lover.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Tommy518 said:


> Thanks homemaker. We aren't living together. I try to accommodate her schedule and give her the space she needs. Time off without the kids or me. I'll go to her place and make dinner for them, or take them out. I cover on short stuff, but she seems to take any reluctance to spend time with her kids as a criticism of them or lack of commitment. It's a pretty sensitive area.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If her ex isn't really all that involved with the kids, she might be seeing you as a Dad substitute, especially if you were successful with your own children. Can't blame her for wanting something good for her kids, but it doesn't sound like she's going about it the right way. I'd back off a bit and suggest to her that she seek counseling for her son. It's not really up to her to find him a replacement dad. He already has one and young as he is, he needs to learn to manage himself and his own relationships. Sounds like Mom has good intentions but they way she's going about it is misguided and disrespectful to everyone...comes off as a bit controlling and insecure.

I agree with other poster to be wary...and this comes with the caveat that I was the woman in a situation like the woman you're dating...only my son had different issues not the ones you describe...and also my now ex asked to help and took on way more than I really wanted him to and also disciplined my kids in a way that I had not approved. Be wary...any kind of one-one child care exposes you to all kinds of liabilities...and in the situation you describe if it doesn't work out it could also be damaging to the kids. Trust your instinct.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

UM,

EXPECT? Hell No!

It would be nice if you did it sometimes because you want to.

Only dating a few months?
Sorry, if it were me I wouldn't leave you alone with them. And that young, I probably wouldn't have introduced you to them either - until I knew it were something definitely serious and that you are a quality human that would enrich mine and their life.

Sorry - not saying you aren't those things...

just being honest


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

If I didn't want to I wouldn't do it. I don't think its fair she expects you to do so. They are her kids not yours, you are just dating at this point. If things get more serious then you should babysit from time to time.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you need to make your own decision, OP. It seems like she is a devoted mom, and probably a very nice person.

And it is likely, as you said, that many women in your age range are going to be dealing wirh kids. You just need to know your limits.

It must be very hard to be a single mom.


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## Jimena (May 28, 2012)

Since you mentioned that you want a 'solid foundation', it seems as though this level of responsibility for her children is coming too soon. Perhaps you can have a conversation where you express that you are fully committed, but you feel that for the sake of her children's well-being, things may be moving too fast. You also might say something like, that you feel semi-daily caregiving on your own for her children should happen only in the stages leading up to moving in together. I'm guessing after a few months that moving in together hasn't been on the table for long.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

If I were her, given that the two of you have only been dating a few months, I wouldn't have even introduced you yet. I would keep my kids out of the relationship completely until we knew were heading towards marriage. But that's me.

I also would be very reluctant to leave them alone with a new bf. I know my husband didn't like his daughter being left alone with his ex's new bf. When his ex had to go to hospital for a couple of days once, hubby insisted that his daughter come to our place.

Not saying that you would hurt the children, please don't take it that way. I think she needs to find other options for childcare. To ask you in an emergency is fine, or when all other options have been exhausted, it's probably ok, but no more than that when you're only dating.

If you were living together, that's a whole different story.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

wise said:


> I would honestly think about cutting your ties.
> 
> It seems as you are in the beginning stage of resentment that you do not get enough time alone with your GF. It only gets worse. Her kids will always come first and she is implying that message by wanting you to watch them MORE often. You have only been dating for several months and you both do not live together. It is bizarre that she wants you to pick them up from school and watch them while she goes to the gym.
> 
> Be careful, my friend. Long term = she may be looking for a secure guy who is good with her kids, rather than a lover.


She is trying to make you the "beta provider" if you don't put a stop to this just my 2 cents.
In a nutshell she will lose respect for you and find another man.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

No, she should NOT expect you to watch her kids! I find that absurd.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I agree with some of the PP's that you met the kids way too soon. The standard professional advice is to leave it for 12 months and see where the relationship is headed.

But anyway that is too late now, as for your question IMHO it is totally unreasonable for her to ask you to mind her kids. What did she do before you came onto the scene?


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Holland said:


> I agree with some of the PP's that you met the kids way too soon. The standard professional advice is to leave it for 12 months and see where the relationship is headed.
> QUOTE]
> 
> I have never been in this situation but I find it hard to believe that it is best to "lie" to or "deceive" kids about the nature of a relationship for a year.
> ...


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

I did not say lie to them. SO and I sought advice from different professionals when we were early on in our relationship and all said that 12 months is a good time frame before introducing kids.
At about the 4 month mark we told our respective kids that we were dating and spoke about the other on occasion so the kids knew we were happily dating.

I would not advocate lying or deceiving kids at all. Keep in mind that most second marriages/relationships fail due to the hardships of blending families, so far we have done an excellent job and very happy to have sought and followed professional advice on the situation. No absolutes here but in general that is the advice given.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

It seems she sees this relationship as being at a more advanced stage than you do.


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

Holland said:


> I did not say lie to them. SO and I sought advice from different professionals when we were early on in our relationship and all said that 12 months is a good time frame before introducing kids.
> At about the 4 month mark we told our respective kids that we were dating and spoke about the other on occasion so the kids knew we were happily dating.
> 
> I would not advocate lying or deceiving kids at all. Keep in mind that most second marriages/relationships fail due to the hardships of blending families, so far we have done an excellent job and very happy to have sought and followed professional advice on the situation. No absolutes here but in general that is the advice given.


Holland,

I think I now understand where you are coming from and I can see that you only have the best interests of the children at heart.

For some divorced / single parents who might find release / pleasure in "one night stands" or "friends with benefits" type encounters I can understand why they would not want to "parade" a succession of "bed partners" in front of their children.

As neither the OP's or your situation sounds anything like that it seems to be just a matter of deciding how sure of a successful LTR you are before you tell the kids / have "sleep over’s" when they are there. 

Personally I would not sleep with anyone until I was convinced that a LTR was a strong possibility so I think I would have to be open / introduce any person to the children as a "friend" first and then just take things slowly. I can only imagine how hard it is to find a balance that it good for all parties and I do not know if there can be any rules on when it is right in individual cases.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

At this stage in your relationship, if she feels strongly about you, she should be focusing on spending time with you when you are both available, and not using you as a babysitter in order to hang out with her friends or go to the gym. Her children are still only her's and their father's responsibility at this stage. 

I also don't agree with the 12 month rule. It all depends on the situation. People can also fall in love very quickly and decide to become exclusive early on in the relationship. Given that, the children would need to meet the new partner sooner rather than later.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

Run Run Run far far far away.

this woman is totaly nuts!

JMHO.

there not your kids and she should make arrangements for their care. 

why did her marriage break up?


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

I believe the whole "wait months to introduce the children" concept is absurd. I'm not trying to offend anyone with that statement, but anyone who does this has not thought things through very well. Further, a lot more people SAY they would do that than actually practice it. It's easy to preach it than to practice it. 

We wouldn't dream of not letting our kids meet our new, same sex neighbor that we met and really enjoy! We are the model for our children to learn how to interact with their future husbands and wives, whether we married before they were born or are looking for a subsequent relationship (from which they will also learn.) We should strive to demonstrate responsible dating and evaluation of a potential partner while practicing enough self-control to prevent them from learning bad habits or forming bonds that won't be kept later. 

But to answer the OP's question: 

As a former single mom of three, yes, I'd expect you to be willing to watch my kids occasionally for short periods if you're dating me. By developing an exclusive relationship with me, you'd have expressed an intention to move toward ultimately becoming a single family unit. 

How often and how long I'd think was appropriate would depend on how long we'd been dating. Two or three months? I wouldn't hesitate to ask you to hang with the kiddos for twenty minutes while I ran a quick errand here or there, maybe once a week. But if I needed to go out of town for a day, or wanted help on a regular basis for an hour or two at a time, I'd be calling someone else until I was clear that we were highly likely to be moving in together in the foreseeable future. This would probably begin around the seven month mark for me. (And I'd also be looking for red flags during those times to evaluate how my children and you got along.) 

Sounds to me like she's doing something similar and isn't liking what she's seeing.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I had originally said several months, but was not specific. It's been 8 months and we waited three months to introduce the kids, and then it was fairly gradual. She's not looking for me to take them so she can hang with her friends. Her ex has a serious GF who he lets do things like pickup her kids from the bus and watch them for a few hours, but she also has young kids herself. My GF has similar needs and says that when she asks her family for help, they ask why I can't do it. I can't and won't leave the office early for that, but if I was already off, I'd consider it. I guess like some of you have said, I need to figure out where this is going long term and if I want to step in as a parent. On good days, I think yes, and I love being with her, but there's other times where the kids are being a problem and it creates stress for us that I think maybe not. It sucks, because our personalities match really well and it's hard to find that. As I said, I like the thought of parenting again, or at least it doesn't put me off, but I guess the idea of signing on with some of the behavioral issues her son has is concerning to me. I think he's the reason I hesitate to take care them. Anyway, thanks for all the responses. They really help.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Tommy, you don't sound committed to her or the relationship. Bluntly speaking, you sound like you want the benefits without any responsibilities. This is not a mature attitude and it will ultimately hurt your lady and those kids deeply.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

Tommy your recently divorce and you jumped right back into a relationship. Take a step back and see what's best for you.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

The boy's problems were caused by and continue to be cuased by his parents.

Everyone's values are way screwed up. She needs to optimize her boy's upbringing by not having a crappy releationship with his birth father, not dumping her kids on babysitter boyfriends, and all around focusing her life on being a mother instead of being a worker and a girlfriend.


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

As a mother i can understand that she may feel a bit resentful about you wanting to be with her and not have the children around, but i do not think its your job to take them here there and everywhere while she goes to the gym etc, they're her children NOT yours.

I mean your not even living with her...... To me, I think shes being unreasonable.... not you.


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## Caribbean Man (Jun 3, 2012)

wise said:


> I would honestly think about cutting your ties.
> 
> It seems as you are in the beginning stage of resentment that you do not get enough time alone with your GF. It only gets worse. Her kids will always come first and she is implying that message by wanting you to watch them MORE often. You have only been dating for several months and you both do not live together. It is bizarre that she wants you to pick them up from school and watch them while she goes to the gym.
> 
> Be careful, my friend. Long term = she may be looking for a secure guy who is good with her kids, rather than a lover.


:iagree:

In addition to that , there is another outcome I have seen in this type of situation.
I am certain it could happen to a woman too, but I will deal with the male perspective.

The man meets a woman with kids and falls in love with her. They get married to each other but somehow , important issues surrounding the woman's kids are never discussed and agreed upon.
Soon the kid/kids begin to act a certain way and he can't either speak to them or disipline them because their mother , his wife doesn't approve, and a rift develops .

The kids telling him that he's NOT their father and the wife saying that they are HER kids.

Then the wife gets resentful.

Both partners are supposed to be on the same page with regards to how the children are raised , before living together. They are supposed to agree on what type of parenting the kids were accustomed to and how to move forward with them, together as a couple.

I guess the reverse can also be true if a woman is thinking of marrying a man with kids in his custody.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Tommy518 said:


> Thanks homemaker. We aren't living together. I try to accommodate her schedule and give her the space she needs. Time off without the kids or me. I'll go to her place and make dinner for them, or take them out. I cover on short stuff, but she seems to take any reluctance to spend time with her kids as a criticism of them or lack of commitment. It's a pretty sensitive area.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


In short she needs a "babies daddy".

Not saying this is the only reason she is dating you. Though this woman comes with baggage. Two of them. If she was married her husband would not get to ignore the kids. Part of being a life mate.

Now from what you have written and reading in between the lines I assume you are older. Your kids are adult aged. You are retired.

You want her to give you a romantic relationship with great sex. Yet you are unwilling to help her free up her schedule.

You want a long term relationship. Well then this woman is not for you. She needs someone to be there for more then just dates alone.

Now unless you are a retired pro athlete or rock star that has no problem getting women. Or have Donald Trump money. Or look like a Greek God. I have a news flash for you.

NEWS FLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You do not have what it takes to get a woman without baggage. Women once they hit their 30's the odds increase that they will have baggage.

Those baggage free ones know they are in short supply. And they do not sell themselves cheap.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

After reading the thread through I would say that waiting a year is not always needed.

Though the dating couple should of had the talk first where we are in a monogamous relationship. Before the kids meet the BF/GF.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I wonder what the responces would be like if it were my boyfriend expects me to watch his kids?


news flash...........some baggage isn't worth it.

set your standards higher. lots of fish in the ocean.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm not that much older by today's standards (9yrs) and not retired any time soon. In fact, she makes twice my salary so I'm no sugar daddy. Yes, she has baggage, but so so I. Anyone who's nearly half a century old has baggage. She is reasonable about it and we have talked about expectations with the kids and both agreed to slow it down. There's no reason at all to rush any of this. We can and should focus on each other for now and work the kids in where it makes sense. We're not ready to move in together and not even discussing it. We had a long talk yesterday about the kids and she agrees it's too soon to push that.

I do have a question though for all those dating with young kids. Assuming you're not in a phase where you're just looking for hook-ups and casual sex/dating, do you only date people who you think would be willing to take on or raise your kids in the long run? How do you know? Do you assume if they have young kids that they're willing, or if not, do you ask them up front before you get serious? If you feel yourself falling in love with someone and the relationship is starting to get serious, do you make the kids a deal breaker at that point and get out even if they say they aren't sure or would consider it? 

I would think some people know for sure that they don't want to raise someone else's kids and would say so up front, but I have to think there's many who won't and can't make that decision until they get to know you and your kids, parenting style, etc, so do you give them a chance and see where it goes, or just shut it down unless they give you a definite "yes" right up front?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## C3156 (Jun 13, 2012)

At 8 months you all are already to the "family" stage of the relationship? I'm sorry, that is way to fast for me. I waited a long time to intoduce my kids to my SO because I did not want to waste anyone's time and emotion.

I made a point to work my dating schedule around my parenting time. And while dating, I never expected my dates to do anything for my kids. That was something I worked out with the mother of my children. We have a decent relationship and we work around the obsticles of snow days, sick days, etc.

That being said, what is her schedule with her children? Where is bio Dad and how involved is he? I did raise a flag when I saw that a woman could not intereact with their ex concerning their children. Call me what you like, but I don't go for a lot of drama and would have to walk away.

To the OP's original question: Yes, I think it is unrealistic for your GF to expect you to watch her children so that she can go do stuff. It makes me wonder why she cannot organize her schedule better to accomdate raising her children and also date. Demanding job? So what, we prioritize what we think is important. Obviously watching her kids is more important than spending time with you. Keep that in mind moving forward.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

She is on a 2-2-3 split with her ex on custody and they have a very good relationship. In fact, I had a beer with the guy when we discussed involving the kids because he wanted to meet me first, and he's a decent guy who cares about the kids. She pays her mother to drop off and pick up the kids at the bus stop on her days. She only has talked of needing me in a bind, and I have helped out before. Things were just starting to ramp up too fast for me and she's agreed to slow it down. I'm not ready to throw it away as there's a lot of good, but we had a rough weekend and I realized I have no idea what the protocol is. This helps.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> I believe the whole "wait months to introduce the children" concept is absurd. I'm not trying to offend anyone with that statement, but anyone who does this has not thought things through very well. Further, a lot more people SAY they would do that than actually practice it. It's easy to preach it than to practice it.
> 
> We wouldn't dream of not letting our kids meet our new, same sex neighbor that we met and really enjoy! We are the model for our children to learn how to interact with their future husbands and wives, whether we married before they were born or are looking for a subsequent relationship (from which they will also learn.) We should strive to demonstrate responsible dating and evaluation of a potential partner while practicing enough self-control to prevent them from learning bad habits or forming bonds that won't be kept later.
> 
> ............


Writing off the advice of professionals is not wise, sure every situation is different but it pays to seek and listen to well researched advice. We have a fantastic Govt. provided Family Counselling agency here and they provide all sorts of short courses, one on one sessions and mediation. Their research and advice points to waiting until a new relationship is established before introducing children. In the best interests of the children is the main focus and it has paid off for my post divorce relationship. A huge amount of discussion and thought was put into the process and path that SO and I took, not sure how you could say that people that wait are not thinking things through.
Meeting a new neighbour is vastly different than meeting a new partner. 

And from personal experience my ex introduced his new gf within a short time frame, it was a complete disaster, my kids were affected and his relationship only survived a month after that. 

There is a thread in a different section where the new partner has not even told his kids about his 2 year relationship, that is extreme. There is a middle ground between meeting too early and too late, the advice is 12 months (give or take depending on the situation) but certainly meeting within a short time frame is more for the adults and not in the best interests of the children.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Tommy518 said:


> I do have a question though for all those dating with young kids. Assuming you're not in a phase where you're just looking for hook-ups and casual sex/dating, do you only date people who you think would be willing to take on or raise your kids in the long run? How do you know? Do you assume if they have young kids that they're willing, or if not, do you ask them up front before you get serious? If you feel yourself falling in love with someone and the relationship is starting to get serious, do you make the kids a deal breaker at that point and get out even if they say they aren't sure or would consider it?


I have four older children - only two left in high school. 

For better or worse, I can often be a black and white thinker. It simplifies life for me, and I prefer that.

I've talked to many men my age and older (46+) who started their families later than I did and have very young children. I chose not to date them because, after having four of my own, I'm done. I'm unwilling to raise anyone else's children.

And I basically follow the same line of thinking for my own children. I won't get married again until my youngest is out of the house. No man other than my ex-husband, my dad or my brother will ever parent/live with them.

The man I'm involved with now (who has no children) made a comment very early in our relationship that he hesitated about us because of the number of children I have, and I told him flat out that he'll never be responsible for my children. Not financially, not parentally. (Or I should say, it's not something I'd ask of him.)

And he won't be introduced to them unless we're seriously considering marriage.

Different people have various levels of comfort about blended families, and it's good to be honest and open with yourself and others. It's a huge responsibility.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

She should respect you more for bringing up the issue. If she doesn't, then your relationship has problems.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Holland said:


> Writing off the advice of professionals is not wise, sure every situation is different but it pays to seek and listen to well researched advice. We have a fantastic Govt. provided Family Counselling agency here and they provide all sorts of short courses, one on one sessions and mediation. Their research and advice points to waiting until a new relationship is established before introducing children.


Yes, it pays to listen to "well-researched advice." However, it's also important to understand what research consists of, what it results in, and why the advice is being given. Many people in general assume that it's best to wait. Why?

Because this advice appears logical. But is it researched? 

Sorry, I have never seen a single study on this topic (when I was a drug and alcohol counselor I also sat on the Children & Family Services board that reviewed reports of child abuse, so had at least *some* exposure to various related topics) and I just now looked it up to see what I might have missed. 

I see lots of studies on the effects of divorce, and even remarriage, but NOTHING about the effects of timing on when to introduce a new partner. Do you know of any?

I agree that children and others can certainly be affected. In my opinion, the fault lies not with timing, but with bad judgment on the parents' parts. If the new partner is introduced and viewed as a friend, without being exposed to romantic aspects of that friendship, it gives the parent a good opportunity to evaluate the new partner's compatibility with the kids. While introducing too much info too quickly can turn into disaster as you said, so can waiting until the relationship is so advanced that the children feel like they have no influence. "Here's my new boyfriend/girlfriend. How would you like a new daddy/mommy?" is not such a great idea either. For all the talk, people *say* one thing but their behaviors rarely match up. Finding that reasonable middle ground is vital.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Tommy518 said:


> I do have a question though for all those dating with young kids. Assuming you're not in a phase where you're just looking for hook-ups and casual sex/dating, do you only date people who you think would be willing to take on or raise your kids in the long run? How do you know? Do you assume if they have young kids that they're willing, or if not, do you ask them up front before you get serious? If you feel yourself falling in love with someone and the relationship is starting to get serious, do you make the kids a deal breaker at that point and get out even if they say they aren't sure or would consider it?
> 
> I would think some people know for sure that they don't want to raise someone else's kids and would say so up front, but I have to think there's many who won't and can't make that decision until they get to know you and your kids, parenting style, etc, so do you give them a chance and see where it goes, or just shut it down unless they give you a definite "yes" right up front?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think you're right that many people don't know what a relationship may entail and are willing to check it out, see what it brings, and so on. 

When I was a young parent (both when I had full custody and after I gave up physical custody to join the military) I would not get serious with anyone who was not family-minded. However, I also can't say I knew how to always spot whether someone *was* or was not compatible with this view. I didn't know to ask it quite so directly because I was afraid of being too .... something.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Yes, it pays to listen to "well-researched advice." However, it's also important to understand what research consists of, what it results in, and why the advice is being given. Many people in general assume that it's best to wait. Why?
> 
> Because this advice appears logical. But is it researched?
> 
> ...


Yes it was research provided by the FMA (Family Mediation Australia) which is a Govt agency. It is over 3 years down the track for me and I have no links, you could email them directly for further information.



> Originally Posted by KathyBatesel View Post
> I believe the whole "wait months to introduce the children" concept is absurd. I'm not trying to offend anyone with that statement, but anyone who does this has not thought things through very well. Further, a lot more people SAY they would do that than actually practice it. It's easy to preach it than to practice it.


It is dangerous to advise people that *waiting is absurd*, in fact if you do a quick goggle you will see that the overwhelming majority of advise and discussion is to wait.

What research or professionally given advice do you have to link to that indicates that waiting before an introduction is "absurd"? It would be very interesting to read as it is so contrary to the general consensus.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

MissFroggie said:


> I don't think Kathy was saying that waiting is absurd, rather that forcing yourself to wait for a set number of months just for the sake of waiting is absurd - I agree with that! If you feel that waiting is right then wait as long as you want. If you feel introductions are necessary and appropriate don't hold back just because you haven't been dating for at least 12 months. Every situation is different and introductions should be done at an appropriate time and the length of time you've been dating is not a great way to measure it.


The exact quote


> Originally Posted by KathyBatesel View Post
> *I believe the whole "wait months to introduce the children" concept is absurd. *I'm not trying to offend anyone with that statement, but anyone who does this has not thought things through very well. Further, a lot more people SAY they would do that than actually practice it. It's easy to preach it than to practice it.


Yes she did say it was absurd to wait months before intro's. Actually it is not absurd at all. To say that people that do wait months to see if a relationship has legs before involving the kids "have not thought things through very well" is really way off beam.

The time frame is situational dependent yes, but the concept of waiting and not introducing every Tom, **** or Harry is very well thought out.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

I was in the exact same boat as you a few years ago, with my now-wife. (although I don't have kids of my own).

She came with "baggage", too, in the form of a 3 and a 7 year old. (and like your gf's kids, I got along better with the older one, while the younger one was a temper-tantrum throwing little so-and-so...!)

I met them fairly early on. I can't remember exactly, but it was a couple of months after we started dating, anyway.

Looking after them for short stretches only happened when everyone was comfortable, and only when absolutely necessary. But I do remember going through what you're going through at one point. The "is she using me" thoughts. "Is it too much? Is it too early?" etc.

Single parents have a tough time of it. Her ex is involved, but is also unavailable (even still) more often than my wife and I are. Sometimes we still get "stuck" with nowhere for the kids to go. But that's part of it, and happens to everyone.

When she was comfortable enough, I would be asked to look after them while she worked a different shift, for example. I was a little scared at first, but it all worked out. There were times when I felt I was going above and beyond, but that's normal in a relationship anyway.

I had to deal with her baggage, she had to deal with mine, in the form of my ex wife who was still buzzing around back then.

And yes, I STILL wish we had more time to ourselves. I don't have my own kids, and OP's are already grown and gone (lucky!). Our oldest is a homebody - more interested in being social online than in person. This seems to be the norm these days... ugh. He'll sit for as long as we let him and play computer games, but with 3, 4, 5 of his buddies, so it's not like he's not being social. He just doesn't get out of the house that often. He's also old enough now that he doesn't go and visit his dad like the younger one does. His home is here, whereas the younger one still goes back and forth.

So the wife and I don't get the alone time we'd like even now, which is frustrating at times.

But I'll be honest - I'm GLAD I was trusted and given the responsibility back then to look after the kids. We formed a great relationship, the 3 of us (they're both boys, by the way), and as a result, I was more than just "mom's boyfriend". The older one refers to me as "his dad" when talking to his friends. He doesn't call me "dad" to my face, but he forgoes the "step-" part when talking about me to others. "My dad wants me off the computer", "I have to go, my dad is calling me" etc. It's cool.

Be glad your gf trusts you like this. Hell, even if you're getting the kids more often than somebody else she could ask, take it as a compliment - she'd rather they were with you than somebody else. It may be more convenient, but so what? When you're a single parent, convenience is a luxury you take.

If she treats you right, the relationship is good, and she appreciates you, then embrace it. Don't resent her for this, like others are suggesting. They've probably never been in this situation before.

The reality is, when a single parent is dating, of course they are looking for somebody to help out and contribute in regards to kids in the future as well. It's part of what they're looking for in a mate at that point. If you can't pass muster, even though they might be attracted to everything else, you're no longer suitable. That's the reality. The kids are part of the deal at that point.

And apart from all of that, I had all of my wife's girlfriends and female family members comment to me, or to her, on how great I was with the kids, and how awesome I was for looking after HER kids. It's an attractive quality in a man, and I was made sure I knew it!


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Maybe you guys just aren't a good match.

You could try dating someone with older children or who doesn't have or want children (unless you want more children, too, then date someone who wants to have more).


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Holland said:


> Yes it was research provided by the FMA (Family Mediation Australia) which is a Govt agency. It is over 3 years down the track for me and I have no links, you could email them directly for further information.
> 
> 
> It is dangerous to advise people that *waiting is absurd*, in fact if you do a quick goggle you will see that the overwhelming majority of advise and discussion is to wait.
> ...


So let me see if I understand you... "I saw a study once three years ago, and I have no idea what it is called or where to find it, but feel free to go e-mailing the Australian government to ask them to prove what I'm arguing to convince you of my own viewpoint." 

I have to say, this is not very convincing to me, but I looked up the name you offered and... lo and behold, there are many mediation services with similar names, but I could find no government agencies with that name. However, there was an Australian Institute of Family Studies, and it would seem logical that the study you're talking about would be found on the agency's publications page ( Family Pathways - Australian Institute of Family Studies ). Visiting that page, I find many studies of post-divorce effects, yet again, NOT A SINGLE ONE devoted to the impact of timing and methods of introducing children to potential new partners. Feel free to see if the study you're referring to is there or elsewhere, because if you cannot locate it, then I stand by my original assertion that this broad, sweeping idea that it's "best" to wait months and AVOID allowing the children any influence or allow the parent any evaluation period before the relationship is solidified is ... yes... absurd. 



Holland said:


> The exact quote
> 
> Yes she did say it was absurd to wait months before intro's. Actually it is not absurd at all. To say that people that do wait months to see if a relationship has legs before involving the kids "have not thought things through very well" is really way off beam.
> 
> The time frame is situational dependent yes, but the concept of waiting and not introducing every Tom, **** or Harry is very well thought out.


Please note, that as Miss Froggie correctly pointed out, I am not saying that waiting is inherently bad, either. There are many valid reasons to wait. I believe you're misinterpreting my statements because I certainly agree that a parent has a duty to NOT parade every Tom, Richard, or Harry in front of the kids, too. Yes, that's just as absurd as refusing to allow a child to meet a new partner when the parents are well beyond the point of exclusivity. 

Waiting - without having a plan for how and when to make those introductions AND a plan for how to evaluate the new partner's interactions with the children after the introduction takes place is something I believe is absurd. (Please also note the use of the words, "I believe.")

My mother "waited" too, for instance. I remember the day she pulled up to the curb at my father's house to introduce me to my new stepfather, when I didn't know she'd had a single date! 

As far as what "research or professionally given advice" I have to go against such a widely held consensus... I believe I have said that there IS no body of study in this regard upon which to rely, and that adopting a view merely because it is popular does not make it correct. I am a former drug and alcohol counselor, so I have worked with other "relationship professionals" if you will. I have observed the effects of "groupthink" quite regularly among this set of professionals, and how very little verification of their practices is actually done. Just because an idea is popular doesn't make it correct. Freud contributed a great deal to our understanding of psychology, for instance, yet it would hardly be helpful to treat every problem as an Oedipal complex, would it? 

You are pointing to authority as a source of proof, when this is a fallacy of logic. Sorry.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Many people in general assume that it's best to wait. Why?
> 
> Because this advice appears logical. But is it researched?


Only speaking for myself, it's a choice I made on my own. I'm not following anyone else's opinions or examples, and I haven't asked for or read up on expert advice.

It's a personal preference - a simple decision, that as an intelligent woman, I made for myself and my children.

Why? Why not?

I don't need research or statistics or proof. I don't need to analyze it or deconstruct it. 

Lord forbid we should think for ourselves at the risk of making a mistake.

Both my dad and my former father-in-law got remarried without a word to us. Do I think that's kind of weird? Yeah, but that was their right.

Free will can be a b!tch.


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

minimalME said:


> It's a personal preference - a simple decision, that as an intelligent woman, I made for myself and my children.
> 
> Why? Why not?


Exactly!


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

KathyBatesel said:


> Exactly!


Am mobile so very briefly. KB it is good to see you have expanded your reply re the sweeping statement that parents that wait are not thinking things through and acting absurdly. It was surprising to read such a statement from you based on your other posts. I totally disagree that the concept of waiting is absurd and personally the proof is what I am experiencing first hand. The generalisation you made was harmful. It hasn't worked out well for the OP and I am sure you are aware that second marriages/relationships have a higher divorce rate than firsts, main issue being the problems of blending families. This is why the advice given is to wait before intros to see if the relationship has a future. 
Family relationships.gov.au is the main Govt mediation agency. The information I was given was in the one on one sessions, they do not link to studies that is why I suggested you contact them directly. They also have great research into the effects of parenting after divorce pertaining to once Sahm's that go to shared care. You can chose to ignore the professionals that is of no relevance to me personally but I always believe the way to go is in the best interests of the children and with much thought followed professional advice.

MF please read my posts properly, I stated very clearly that I told my kids I was dating very early on. I feel no need to respond further than that as you are asking questions that are not related to what I said.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KathyBatesel (Apr 26, 2012)

Holland said:


> Am mobile so very briefly. KB it is good to see you have expanded your reply re the sweeping statement that parents that wait are not thinking things through and acting absurdly.
> 
> *I did not say that. You interpreted my meaning that way, but I said that the concept of waiting months was absurd. Not the decision to wait, not that parents are absurd, or anything but the idea that waiting "just because it seems logical" is absurd. *
> 
> ...


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

I am a single mother with two kids who are in elementary school and middle school.

I can't tell u whether what I did was right or wrong, but it has worked for me. 

My kids are very well adjusted. They are happy, do well in school, and I have never had a teacher who didn't tell me how polite and kind and nice my children are. 

I have been divorced for many years and dated quite a few men.
I am now in a wonderful 3 year relationship with a solid, considerate, handsome and caring man. My kids like him. 

This is what I did.

1. Educated my kids about realities of dating so that they are prepared not to get too attached. Mom is dating, just as they will, to find the right one. There will be some trial and error. That's just life. In the meantime, treat the person that I am dating as a friend of mom who may leave or stay. There are no guarantees in relationships. Even people who get married may get divorced. 

2. I didn't introduce my kids to my boyfriends until I thought that my boyfriends were keepers. Throughout my approx. 6 years of dating since my divorce, I have only introduced my kids to two of my boyfriends. No need to subject my kids to meeting my boyfriends until I felt confident that he would stay awhile. I always scheduled my dating time during the first 7 or 8 months to just getting to know my boyfriend. After the first 7 or 8 months, my boyfriend would spend very limited periods of time with my kids maybe once every other month for a few hours for the next year or so. Again, I didn't feel the need to mix my time with my kids with my time with my boyfriend very often during the beginning. Things with my current boyfriend progressed naturally and slowly over time and now we go on trips with him and my kids and with his teenager and he spends more time with my kids.

3. I did everything possible to not ask my boyfriend to take care of my kids by himself. I did not ask my boyfriend to take care of my kids until we were dating maybe 2 and a half years into the relationship and only when I needed to be in two places at once (e.g., one kid needs to go to one activity and the other kid needed to be elsewhere). After he took care of my children, I would thank him profusely and repeatedly and would tell him how much I appreciate him. 

In short, I think your girlfriend should spend her time with you getting to know you and determining whether you are a good fit for her and figuring out whether you have good character before she lets you spend a lot of time with her kids. Treating one's boyfriend as a regular babysitter is not a nice way in my opinion to treat a boyfriend.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I appreciate all the good posts, especially from Alexm and Loveadvice. It's nice to see something positive and supportive. 

I don't know where this will go. I want it to work out, and do love her and really enjoy kids for the most part and could see us growing to a really tight family unit some day, but I feel like we still need to focus on our relationship right now and am not sure that she's of that mind. She's already experiencing major guilt about the divorce and only getting 50% custody of the kids. She feels she's losing valuable time with them and resents the mere thought that I might not want to be with them as much as her when she has them. I've only shown them love and support and tried to help her deal with some of the behavioral stuff, and I've NEVER suggested we do anything without them when she has them. I've never stood between her and them and have been as supportive as I know how to be. On Valentines day, I came to her house early, put everything together after the landlord painted earlier in the day, Made her and her kids a special Cornish game hen dinner complete with a large Godiva chocolate heart for each of them and fresh flowers, and spent the night so we could do something special the next day. We all had a really good time. We also go sliding together and make snow forts. We go to the water parks together. We play games and I go to swim lessons, soccer games, and football games. Even gone alone and brought her son home when the kids had conflicting games. I can't imagine doing more than I already do, but I also want to be alone with her and that to be a priority for her. 

I know she loves me and appreciates what I do for the kids, but I feel like it's expected at times and she still worries about the kids getting hurt, which I understand, and worries about my commitment. I think it's unrealistic and would be a mistake to propose marriage at this point, which she agrees with, but it seems like she wants me to commit, without committing, if that makes sense. I'm not sure how to do that. Relationships take time to develop and neither of us thinks we're there quite yet, but she still worries about the kids. I guess in the end, I don't know how to get to the point where you know you want to stay with the person you're with, without risking the kids getting too close and hurt if it ends up not working out. We've both been through a divorce and don't want to do that again. The only way to do that is really give things time to develop and that inherently puts the kids at risk. Sort of a catch 22, I guess.

That sort of rambled, but anyway, I appreciate the thoughtful responses. They really do help.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

I have a daughter with my ex, and have been dating my gf for a little over 2 yrs. GF has no kids, we live separately (we are both homeowners), and spend 2-3 nights a week together on average. I have never "expected" her to watch my kid. She will make her a meal or put her to bed every once in a while, things like that, but otherwise my kid is all on me. In the whole time we've been dating she has babysat, picked her up or given her a ride somewhere, etc for me less than 10 times total, and never for longer than about 4-5 hrs, usually more like a couple hours or less. 

My gf's sister OTOH lives with her bf, and totally expects / uses him to watch her kids, take them to sports, etc, ALL THE TIME. You can cut the resentment and entitlement with a knife around them. No thanks. I love kids and will gladly hang out with them by choice, but I will never feel obligated or be coerced to care for children that are not mine.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

One more question (there's never just one more question)....

I've always been a believer that the parents (couple) comes first. Despite the problems in my previous marriage, my wife and I did agree that we came first. She had a daughter from her first marriage (it was my first) who I happily adopted and fathered to adulthood, in addition to the son we had together. We always agreed that we counted first and that it was most important to take care of the parental relationship as a priority and not let the kids affect it more than we had to. We did that successfully and in the end the marriage failed after the kids left the house due to problems that existed between us from the beginning. The kids actually held us together. 

That said, it seems to me that maybe my GF feels that the kids always come first. I've told her how I feel about that, but I'm not sure she's buying it. Right now, her kids are everything to her and I'm concerned that it may never change. That she'll always put them first at the expense of us.

How do you all feel about this? Is it normal to put the kids first, or do you prioritize your relationship knowing that a strong parental relationship benefits the kids more in the long run. 

Thanks


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Tommy518 said:


> One more question (there's never just one more question)....
> 
> How do you all feel about this? Is it normal to put the kids first, or do you prioritize your relationship knowing that a strong parental relationship benefits the kids more in the long run.
> 
> Thanks


Tommy, this is why I won't remarry until my youngest is out of the house.

In my original marriage, yes, the relationship between my husband and I came first. It was the priority because the children born during that union would grow up and move on to have their own lives, and, theoretically, we needed that strong foundation to keep our marriage bond intact.

With divorce that's no longer the case - the initial marriage ties have been broken, and now my children do come first. 

Dating and finding someone new _does not_ come before them.

Again, only speaking for myself because my children are older, a subsequent marriage wouldn't be equal to the first - I'm unwilling to divide the roles of husband and father.

At this stage, it would be inappropriate for a new man to come into our family and lead.

But once my children are all independent adults, I have no problem getting married again and devoting myself to a new husband.

If you're in a position where very young children are involved, and you as husband/father would be more acceptable and appropriate, I would think that agreeing on these sorts of roles (and your weight in the family) should be mandatory. 

To me, marrying this woman, when you disagree about the fundamentals, would be asking for a life of pain.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Tommy518 said:


> One more question (there's never just one more question)....
> 
> I've always been a believer that the parents (couple) comes first. Despite the problems in my previous marriage, my wife and I did agree that we came first. She had a daughter from her first marriage (it was my first) who I happily adopted and fathered to adulthood, in addition to the son we had together. We always agreed that we counted first and that it was most important to take care of the parental relationship as a priority and not let the kids affect it more than we had to. We did that successfully and in the end the marriage failed after the kids left the house due to problems that existed between us from the beginning. The kids actually held us together.
> 
> ...


I think you are both putting the cart before the horse. She wants you to be a regular babysitter/substitute father for her children before you are ready to do so, and you want her to treat you as her first priority/husband before she is ready to do so. 

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't complain about having to act like a father to her kids and then turn around and complain about her not treating you like you are her first priority/husband.

Whether or not she will end up treating you like her first priority will 
depend on whether you are ready to act like a husband/father. Time will tell. Your relationship may not last and the question may be moot. If you get to the point when you are both committed then discuss the question with her.

In short, act the role you want to assume. If you want to be the president, don't act like the secretary and expect to get the president's salary. You have to earn it.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm not really complaining about acting like a father to her kids. I generally enjoy that but am concerned that it might be a little too early for that and worry that the "kid relationship" will get out in front of the GF relationship. I want us to be solid before we get too far with the kids and part of that is establishing how we want my relationship with them to work. I hear what you're saying, though. I think I have acted the part so far.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

MissFroggie said:


> I always had the concept that my daughter's needs came first, then my needs, then our wants (shared - sometimes she'd get, sometimes I'd get).
> 
> With a relationship then it should IMO become more important than the child-parent relationship because as the child grows up they need that relationship in a different way and do not need or want so much from you.
> 
> I do think that what you are wanting is different from what your gf seems to be wanting and it is difficult to go back from being with the kids etc now you have introduced it. Take things slowly and talk more with her about these things. You might find that her thoughts are similar - eg the relationship becoming more important than that of the parent-child relationship - but that because the time is not right for that transition the actions are not reflecting that view at the moment.


Yeah, makes sense. I guess my perspective is a little different because my kids are grown and moved away, so while I enjoyed the time we had and it was good, in the end I found that you also need to take care of the relationship with your spouse. We tried to address some of our issues when the kids were home and younger, but they always ended up taking priority and the couple problems ended up being pushed to the back burner until they left the home. Then there was so much history and resentment built up that love was lost and it fell apart. It can't all be about the kids. In the end, you need to put effort into the relationship you chose if you want it to last until death do you part. God willing, the kids will always be there and love you without condition. My 2 cents, anyway.

We are talking it out tonight and this weekend. We've found some good articles that address the issues we're having and are both doing a lot of introspection and addressing the problems in a constructive way. There's no guarantee, but we both want to give it a solid chance before letting it go. We've put too much work into it to throw it away without trying.

Thanks again.


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## Unique Username (Jul 6, 2013)

My Child comes first PERIOD!

I have only one child. I made him, he is MY responsibility.
His needs come before my own and everyone elses.

WANTS, on the other hand are decided by who wants what and when and why


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Tommy518 said:


> I'm not really complaining about acting like a father to her kids. I generally enjoy that but am concerned that it might be a little too early for that and worry that the "kid relationship" will get out in front of the GF relationship. I want us to be solid before we get too far with the kids and part of that is establishing how we want my relationship with them to work. I hear what you're saying, though. I think I have acted the part so far.


I've always thought that there is something amiss with the philosophy that either the spouse relationship or the kid relationship should come first. Every decision should instead be a balancing of what is more important and beneficial at the time of making the decision. Sometimes, the child's needs are more important than the husband's needs and sometimes vice versa. It's not all or nothing to me. If you keep on stating that she is putting her child relationship at the "EXPENSE" of your relationship then you are automatically pitting yourself against her children and creating a conflict dynamic. Instead, think about each decision separately in terms of what is more important at the time of making the decision, and NOT in terms of who is more important, which sounds like childish thinking to me.


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

Obviously, or maybe not obviously, I'm speaking in generalities. I don't expect her to sacrifice anything from or take away from her children. I've never asked her to put me in front of her kids, and I wouldn't. That said, if I moved in or we got married, I would expect to have the same attention from her as the kids get, as I suspect she would want from me, and there will always be circumstances that require exceptions both ways. It is a balancing act. 

Sometimes in these forums, people get into very black and white thinking or interpret other posts that way. I'm not a selfish child who demands attention and needs to be coddled. I'm a big boy and know the score. I just was looking for input on what's normal in this situation and my point of the last post was that if a single parent (fathers love their children too) wants to have a strong committed relationship with a partner, they will have to work at and pay attention to that relationship too and it's reasonable to ask for help and commitment to the kids. I just know that dating and kids is a huge gray area and wondered what others do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BashfulB (Jul 1, 2013)

I watch my girlfriend's grandkids! I love it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Tommy518 said:


> Obviously, or maybe not obviously, I'm speaking in generalities. I don't expect her to sacrifice anything from or take away from her children. I've never asked her to put me in front of her kids, and I wouldn't. That said, if I moved in or we got married, I would expect to have the same attention from her as the kids get, as I suspect she would want from me, and there will always be circumstances that require exceptions both ways. It is a balancing act.
> 
> Sometimes in these forums, people get into very black and white thinking or interpret other posts that way. I'm not a selfish child who demands attention and needs to be coddled. I'm a big boy and know the score. I just was looking for input on what's normal in this situation and my point of the last post was that if a single parent (fathers love their children too) wants to have a strong committed relationship with a partner, they will have to work at and pay attention to that relationship too and it's reasonable to ask for help and commitment to the kids. I just know that dating and kids is a huge gray area and wondered what others do.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


The reason I responded to your post the way I did is because of what you said. Notice that you state "always" and "expense of " and "in front of" and "we counted first" and "put them (kids) first". This type of thinking is very black and white. You are worried that your relationship with her counts "first, always, in front of" her kids and that her relationship with her kids not come at "the expense of" your relationship with her. Now, you want the "same" attention. There is no way she can give you the "same" attention. She can balance what is the priority at the moment and come to a decision as to what is the best thing to do for her kids and for you.

"Originally Posted by Tommy518 View Post
One more question (there's never just one more question)....

I've always been a believer that the parents (couple) comes first. Despite the problems in my previous marriage, my wife and I did agree that we came first. She had a daughter from her first marriage (it was my first) who I happily adopted and fathered to adulthood, in addition to the son we had together. We always agreed that *we counted first* and that it was most important to take care of the parental relationship as a priority and not let the kids affect it more than we had to. We did that successfully and in the end the marriage failed after the kids left the house due to problems that existed between us from the beginning. The kids actually held us together.

That said, it seems to me that maybe my GF feels that the kids *always *come first. I've told her how I feel about that, but I'm not sure she's buying it. Right now, her kids are everything to her and I'm concerned that it may never change. That she'll always *put them first* *at the expense of us.*

How do you all feel about this? Is it normal to *put the kids first*, or do you prioritize your relationship knowing that a strong parental
relationship benefits the kids more in the long run."


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

You're right, loveadvice. My terms were pretty B&W. I didn't realize I was doing that. "Always" should be "usually", etc, but I was talking more in concept. In fact, we put our kids first in many respects. Made many sacrifices in time and money for them. 12 years of private school and private colleges for both were a big sacrifice on our budget, but we agreed that we wanted them to have the best opportunities possible. Of course we didn't put us first all the time, and I certainly don't expect my GF to either. I guess equal time is more appropriate. It's a package deal. All or nothing. I get that. 

And thank you Froggie, for your input. I appreciate your response. I'm glad your story turned out. Your daughter will learn from your determination and drive to make your dream happen, and that's worth the sacrifice. Attitude in life is everything.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Tommy518 said:


> You're right, loveadvice. My terms were pretty B&W. I didn't realize I was doing that. "Always" should be "usually", etc, but I was talking more in concept. In fact, we put our kids first in many respects. Made many sacrifices in time and money for them. 12 years of private school and private colleges for both were a big sacrifice on our budget, but we agreed that we wanted them to have the best opportunities possible. Of course we didn't put us first all the time, and I certainly don't expect my GF to either. I guess equal time is more appropriate. It's a package deal. All or nothing. I get that.
> 
> And thank you Froggie, for your input. I appreciate your response. I'm glad your story turned out. Your daughter will learn from your determination and drive to make your dream happen, and that's worth the sacrifice. Attitude in life is everything.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I hope things work out for you, Tommy518.  I hope I gave you some ideas about what a single mom may be thinking. I think that if you were willing to raise your ex-wife's child, you have an open enough mind and heart to be a good partner to your current girlfriend. Not all men can be selfless enough to help raise another man's child.


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## OptimisticPessimist (Jul 26, 2010)

I dont have kids so I cant really provide any words of wisdom on this subject. However, I cant help but wonder how the responses in this thread might be different if the OP was a woman and the man she was dating asked her for such help...


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## Tommy518 (Nov 28, 2011)

Good point. I suspect it would be different. Maybe more defensive, like it's expected of the woman for chauvinistic reasons. More defensive that way. I think the assumption by most women, and I think my GF shares this, is that a man can't possibly have the same bond with his children because he didn't carry them in his body for nine months or experience the birth first hand. I guess I would agree with that, to some degree. There is a bond and sense of personal responsibility that developes from creating that child in her body that men can never experience. Due to the strain of birth, I got to be the first to hold and feed my son immediately after he was born, and that may have been the happiest and most moving experience I've had in my 50 years of life. I can only imagine how much stronger that feeling is for a woman breast feeding her child for the first time and the bond that creates, so I guess I have to give them that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

OptimisticPessimist said:


> I dont have kids so I cant really provide any words of wisdom on this subject. However, I cant help but wonder how the responses in this thread might be different if the OP was a woman and the man she was dating asked her for such help...


You have a point. I've read in several places that the stepmom or GF has to love the kids, etc. that if she doesn't she shouldn't be with the guy, etc. etc. And all of this no matter what reaction she gets from the kids.....


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