# Long Painful Path



## AFPhoenix

Hi....I originally posted this under LIFE AFTER DIVORCE in Dec, but decided to put it where it belongs. I have been reading stories on here for since Oct and the effects are amazing. Guys like Conrad, Re-Group, and many others have really helped me…and I appreciate it. However, by no means is this journey complete and I need help and hope I can help others at the same time. 


I married my High School sweetheart 22 years ago and we recently moved to Virginia. Our oldest daughter is a Senior in college and recently married in May and stayed in Alabama.

Our youngest made the move to Virginia with us. My wife and I have went through a lot the past three years, her father dying in 2010, my mother dying in 2011 and my father recently passed away in 2012. She started therapy in Virginia and while I know that she has not been truly happy (long story of her childhood) I thought we were doing fine. 

She met someone at a bar. He's an older guy, a 2X divorced car salesman who lives in a modified basement apartment of someone's house. He claims to be an ex NFL player, I called the Raider's they have never heard of him, and even claims to be the ex body guard of Sylvester Stallone and is the cousin of Stephanie Myers....sound too good to be true? To everyone but my wife.

She tells me that she loves me but is not in love with me anymore. I catch her talking to this guy constantly....Facebook, text messages, phone messages....she's not very smart. When I come back from a trip in Nov, she tells me that she needs to talk and wants a separation. 

While we are talking upstairs, our daughter picks up her phone and finds all the sordid dirty sexting messages.....my daughter brings me the phone and shows me. I actually try to cover for my wife, but my daughter also shows me pictures.....needless to say my wife left that night. 

So......i still want to make it work.....I love her. We go to MC, and she tells the counselor that she does not want the marriage. I ask her to do the 40 day Love Dare and not contact this guy. She agrees......but on Thanksgiving i catch her talking to this guy. 

I pick up the phone and threaten him.....I want to beat the crap out of this guy so bad I can't see straight.....but i know i'll lose my job and my daughter, who has said that wants to live with me. We agree to a divorce on 28 Nov. 

Now here is where it gets messy. I can't stop wanting to hurt this guy and make him hurt worse than I am hurting. I can't sleep, i can't eat, i can't concentrate. 

Even her own siblings are telling me that I'm better off.....but i still love her. How do i move on? She has said the cruelest things to me.....i never satisfied her sexually, emotionally, and i was always so selfish. She does not even see the carnage she has done to the family. I feel hopeless. I am beyond sad...i'm angry.....i want vengeance. She moved in with POSOM on 23 Dec 2013.

UPDATE as of 3 Feb: I’m still angry…but my need for vengeance is not as strong. I’ve accepted the fact that we are done, and I would/could never take her back! 

While she has not wanted to reconcile, she has called a few times complaining that she can’t find a job, and wanted me to tutor her with Chemistry (my undergrad degree was Chemistry) and that while she loves this new guy (all 4 months they have known each other) that he works all the time and she has to eat by herself.

I have essentially ignored her texts/phone calls. She is close to signing the Property Settlement Agreement. The biggest fight was over the fact that our daughter will not be staying nights at POSOM’s basement, and my daughter will chose if/when she wants to meet him.

It's getting better though and I love the distraction. I have also booked a Club Med singles vacation this June at Turks and Caicos. My fog is lifting from Co-dependency issues and I'm hoping the KARMA bus is coming for them soon.


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## oviid

Wow what a thing to face..must be so difficult. I believe the best thing for you is to limit contact with her as much as possible and realize that you are in fact better off without her.

That probably does very little to help you I imagine. But just think; how could you allow someone who has said such hurtful things to come back to you? Someone who has allowed her wants and needs to trump all despite the harm done.

There's a right way and a wrong way to end a marriage and her way was so wrong.


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## AFPhoenix

She definitely did it the wrong way. Both of our daughters have essentially ostracized her and will hang up on her if she mentions his name. It's a hard road.


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## Conrad

Are you in therapy?


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## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

Yes, i'm in Anger Management and IC. Plus I have read Letting Go, the 12 Steps, No More Mr. Nice Guy, and Life After Divorce plus all the blogs on here. It's all helping but I'm not there yet...I was with this woman for 24 years.


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## indiecat

You will mourn and grieve the end of your marriage, good or bad, it's like a death. It's normal to feel this way.


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Yes, i'm in Anger Management and IC. Plus I have read Letting Go, the 12 Steps, No More Mr. Nice Guy, and Life After Divorce plus all the blogs on here. It's all helping but I'm not there yet...I was with this woman for 24 years.


How about DeMello's "Awareness"

We tend to cling to things that he calls "labels"

He's right.

http://www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/tonyawareness.pdf


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## Pictureless

AFP,

Dude, there's many here that are going through this as well. Myself included.

Today is an angry day. But I'm getting so much done it's amazing. 

PM if you need or want to. 

And F Scrooge!


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## AFPhoenix

No, I haven't read Awareness. I'll give it a try. This experience is worse than when my parents died. At the beginning of all of this, if it wasn't for my daughter, I think I would have checked out...the hard way. Thank God I'm not there anymore.

Pictureless, I was amazed at how many women are doing this to men.


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## bmark33

AFPhoenix said:


> No, I haven't read Awareness. I'll give it a try. This experience is worse than when my parents died. At the beginning of all of this, if it wasn't for my daughter, I think I would have checked out...the hard way. Thank God I'm not there anymore.
> 
> Pictureless, I was amazed at how many women are doing this to men.


Good luck brother. My wife left me 6 months ago and still can't stop thinking about the whole situation. I try to keep myself busy and it momentarily helps. It's still the last thing I think about at night and the first thing on my mind in the morning. Wish I had some great advise for you. It has gotten easier with time...slowly but surely.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFPhoenix

So....STBXW is at my house after picking up our daughter from school. She's complaining that she's not understanding her Chemistry class (my major was Chemistry) and she is in tutoring and study groups. 

I cordially wish her the best and walk upstairs to change for the gym. She follows me and asks if she could have her "magic bullet" back...her sex toy. I told her I threw all that stuff away and asked her why did she need that stuff anyway? She gets angry and said I had no right in throwing it away without asking. I told her that I didn't think she needed that anymore then walked out the door to go the gym. SCORE 1 FOR THE GOOD GUYS!


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I told her I threw all that stuff away


Excellent



AFPhoenix said:


> and asked her why did she need that stuff anyway?


Not so excellent.


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## AFPhoenix

small victories Conrad, but you're right, I should have just left it at I threw them away.


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> small victories Conrad, but you're right, I should have just left it at I threw them away.


The key is you are WHOLLY uninterested in her and in her activities.

Moving forward with your own life, with as much masculine mettle and vigor as you can muster.


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## ReGroup

AFP,

You are going to get in the best shape of your life.

Think of yourself as NBA player who tears up a knee. Usually, when this happens the player will come back in the best shape of his life. He's got no other choice to focus on his body or he will never come back to what he once was.

Like Chip says, show no interest in anything she says or does.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless

We're with you! Stay focused and determined.


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## AFPhoenix

I had the pleasure (can you really call it that) maybe a better description would be I had the privilege of reading BullWinkle's post. It's amazing the similiarites in our stories. 

Anyhow, I get a text from STBXW telling me that i was the one that pushed her away, how manipulative I was, how untrusting I was (i thought this was funny given the fact that she has had 2 affairs) and that she had considered coming back. Thanks to BW's story and some great advice from Conrad and a few other's situations, I did not respond. It's getting easier.


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## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> I had the pleasure (can you really call it that) maybe a better description would be I had the privilege of reading BullWinkle's post. It's amazing the similiarites in our stories.
> 
> Anyhow, I get a text from STBXW telling me that i was the one that pushed her away, how manipulative I was, how untrusting I was (i thought this was funny given the fact that she has had 2 affairs) and that she had considered coming back. Thanks to BW's story and some great advice from Conrad and a few other's situations, I did not respond. It's getting easier.


The view is great at 50,000 feet you are on your way there.


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## AFPhoenix

The view is great, but I often catch myself diving down to do a little low level...then i feel like crap and wished I would have stayed at 50K because it only gives her power. I know she has borderline personality disorder sprinkled with a narcissitic attitude. I've always known she was somewhat narcissitic, but the past 8 years or so has been rough. I suppose the breast augmentation she had went to her head.


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Anyhow, I get a text from STBXW telling me that i was the one that pushed her away, how manipulative I was, how untrusting I was (i thought this was funny given the fact that she has had 2 affairs) and that she had considered coming back. Thanks to BW's story and some great advice from Conrad and a few other's situations, I did not respond. It's getting easier.


Gee, who would have ever thought she'd blame everything on you?

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


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## Dedicated2Her

> Anyhow, I get a text from STBXW telling me that i was the one that pushed her away, how manipulative I was, how untrusting I was (i thought this was funny given the fact that she has had 2 affairs) and that she had considered coming back. Thanks to BW's story and some great advice from Conrad and a few other's situations, I did not respond. It's getting easier.


The games some of these wackjobs play are absolutely comical.


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## AFPhoenix

So much for cool, calm, and collected. When I get home, POSOM's car is in the driveway...i go insided ready to rip him limb from limb...when my STBXW tells me that he took the car to get the FOB fixed, cleaned, and winshield wipers replaced....I lost it and started yelling. FML...2 steps forward 5 steps back. I want to text POSOM and tell him that he's playing a good house husband but she's already complaining about his working hours and she's not satisfied because she needs her toys back. Someone talk me off the ledge!!!!!


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## AFPhoenix

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFPhoenix

So after a sleepless night with a lot of regret about yesterday, I have picked myself back up. I thought about putting the whole sordid story on Facebook, but most of the friend and family know already. I'm hoping that the Settlement Agreement is signed today or early next week. She had the audacity to tell me yesterday that I should be thanking her for keeping our daughters with me this long and she had been a good "friend" supporting me. After talking to POSOM last night, he said he will not allow anyone to disrespect her anymore. I told him she's my wife still but she's your *****. I also told him not to call or text me again. Instead, show up like a man and say it to my face.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## IronWine29

AFPhoenix said:


> So after a sleepless night with a lot of regret about yesterday, I have picked myself back up. I thought about putting the whole sordid story on Facebook, but most of the friend and family know already. I'm hoping that the Settlement Agreement is signed today or early next week. She had the audacity to tell me yesterday that I should be thanking her for keeping our daughters with me this long and she had been a good "friend" supporting me. After talking to POSOM last night, he said he will not allow anyone to disrespect her anymore. I told him she's my wife still but she's your *****. I also told him not to call or text me again. Instead, show up like a man and say it to my face.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Set some boundaries -- do you have exclusive rights to the house? Change the locks & tell her to stay out. If she comes in, she's trespassing. Why are you even speaking to her? That seems to be a trigger for you. Tell her if she wants to contact you, she can email you, and if it doesn't have to do with your daughters, don't respond. Don't respond to her texts.

Grant POSOM his wish -- You can't disrespect her if you don't acknowledge her at all.

That doesn't mean you won't be angry. If you need to vent, stay away from FB. Talk to your close friends or post here.


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## LongWalk

Go to the gym and get your anger out there.

You don't need to lecture your wife. She is dysfunctional but realizes she has alienated her daughters. The magic bullet was too magical. POSOM is not enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Pictureless

Do yourself a favor and avoid all contact with both of them. Only discuss divorce with wife. Try to remain calm when talking. It would be ideal if you could only communicate via email. There is no reason for you to communicate with posom. The sooner she is out of your life the better off you will be.


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## LBHmidwest

Wish I could help but it just sucks. I don't know if it's worse to have a wife go with or without counseling.

Too funny on the magic bullet, my wife took only a few of her "things". It's really bugged me, they don't go uhhh... there. Somewhere else. One of the many things that bugs me trying to figure out the why's.


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## AFPhoenix

My STBXW signed the Separation Agreement. I stop spousal support on 1 Jan 15 and can file for divorce in Nov. Thanks to VA for being a state that requires a year separation. I could file on fault grounds now, but the courts are backed up and it will take 7-12 months anyways and will cost 10K. Maybe it's worth it. I waived her paying child support and she gets half of my retirement and gets free medical for life. I'm not retiring for another 10 years now. I'll make her wait.


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## AFPhoenix

My STBXW asked yesterday if she could wash her laundry at my house while she visited with our daughter. I find it interesting that her POSOM doesn't own a washer and dryer...but I digress. I told her that she could.

When she gets back, I'm ready to walk out the door with my new clothes. She says, "that's a nice shirt where are you going?". I told her out with friends. She says with a snide look, "you never go out with friends. Is it friends from your little support group?". I said no, but I have made friends from the support group. She said, "I know you're seeing someone, I wish you would just be honest and tell me". I told her that I wasn't seeing anyone and even if I was why would it matter. She says, "if the girls see that you're moving on with someone else, they won't be as angry with me". 

I told her that's her problem. She doesn't see that her level of betrayal is the reason that the girls are angry, not the fact that she wanted a divorce. She said, "that's your problem, you never saw how unhappy I was and that drove me to what I did". I told her I was late and to have a good night. I heard her still talking when I closed the door. 

I'll call last night taking the power back.


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## LBHmidwest

Should have said.... out with friend, singular  And not said one thing more.

I agree, good job


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## Pictureless

Don't walk away mad, just walk away.


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## IronWine29

She's blaming you for making her cheat. Nice. Where did I hear that before? Oh yeah, my ex.

AFP, I'm about a year ahead of you on the timeline. You don't have to tell her this, but no. The kids won't blame her any less for breaking up your family if you date someone. They will always blame her.


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## manticore

I don't know if I am doing you a good by telling you this, but your OM is a Cynic POS who dares to put himself as the protector of your STBXW so here some recomendatios:

- first put OM in cheaterville (just true facts, but you can also add his retarded lies as he claiming that he was bodyguard of silvester stallone)

- Also, depending of his Job being a POS cheater can impact his reputation and Job status, so you can share the link with all his coworkers and RH.

- other that I have seen applied and recomended in other fórums but not here, is a "warning letter", you write letter redacting how this POS go after married women and currently is living with one, and you send this letter to all the neighbors and this case also the person who is renting him the basement.

As long as you said just the truth neither of this actions is illegal, however, do all this things from anonymous sources, (different email accounts, don't sign the letters, don't write them or send them from your computer).

if I am advising him something illegal, please anyone feel free to correct me.


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## AFPhoenix

Iron Wine: Is your EX with her POSOM still? My STBXW is already complaining about hers.

Manticore: I have to be careful because of my job. I'm biding my time. I'll settle with him eventually.


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## SadSamIAm

AFPhoenix said:


> Iron Wine: Is your EX with her POSOM still? My STBXW is already complaining about hers.
> 
> Manticore: I have to be careful because of my job. I've already threatened him both over the phone and text/facebook. I'm biding my time. I'll settle with him eventually.


You already settled with him. He is stuck with your ex. All he has to look forward to is finding out she is cheating on HIM.

Seriously don't spend any energy on him. If it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.


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## LBHmidwest

He is not worth it. 

If you hate your inlaws, think of the fun he gets to have


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## AFPhoenix

SadSam: He can have her. It's the principal of the matter. I asked him to back off in Oct and he gave me his word (lol). I will settle with him eventually.

LBH: I actually get along with her siblings very well. As a matter of fact, they have all rallied around me and have turned their back on her. I know...I know...blood is thicker than water.


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## IronWine29

AFPhoenix said:


> Iron Wine: Is your EX with her POSOM still? My STBXW is already complaining about hers.
> 
> Manticore: I have to be careful because of my job. I've already threatened him both over the phone and text/facebook. I'm biding my time. I'll settle with him eventually.


She's on her second POSOM. She dropped the first one after, shall we say, a gynecological issue? I've stopped talking to her about anything other than the kids, so I don't know if she's not happy. I could care less, to be honest.


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## AFPhoenix

IronWine,

My STBXW told our daughter that even though we're not together any longer, we could still be friends. My daughter asked her if she actually hears what she says. My girl is thankfully smarter than my STBXW. Her sense of entitlement and her lack of remorse is unbelievable.


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## IronWine29

She needs to learn "denial" is not a river in Egypt.

My kids spent the first Christmas we weren't together with the ex. Apparently, there was quite a lot of drama; she angrily accused them of criticizing her because of the choices she made.

That's how she viewed it. Her betrayals and lies were her "choices."

She didn't get it then, she doesn't get it now, she won't ever get it.

You would love her explanation after I found out about POSOM #1: "Oh, I'm not even talking to him anymore."


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## AFPhoenix

A little humor:

My 16 year old daughter drove to school for the first time yesterday. The school sold out of parking passes but a few unmarked spots are first come first serve. I get text at 3:00 yesterday from her saying that they towed her car and she rode the bus home because my STBXW was too far away at POSOM's basement apartment. 

Thank God i've been taking anger management. I tell her I'm on my way. I pick her up and go to the school to get the number to towing company. Lo and behold, her car is in the parking lot. She looks at me and says, "hey, my car's back!". I look at her and tell her that it never left. I sent her a picture of the guys from the movie "Dude Where's My Car".


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> IronWine,
> 
> My STBXW told our daughter that even though we're not together any longer, we could still be friends. My daughter asked her if she actually hears what she says. My girl is thankfully smarter than my STBXW. Her sense of entitlement and her lack of remorse is unbelievable.


You've been reading here.

It's all too believeable.

DeMello put it best, "I'm an ass, you're an ass"


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## Fenix

AFP, it is still really early for you. You will be doing the 3 steps forward, 2 steps back dance for a long time. The anger is reasonable and so is the pain. A couple of things:
1) If you are in Northern Virginia, check out meetup.com's divorce support groups, esp, the second saturday one. They meet in Alexandria 2x/month - coed and very, very nice, as well as helpful.

2)If you decide your daughter needs therapy and you need a rec, pm me. I have found a great one for my 16 year old daughter.

3)Wanting to get even is totally normal. Eventually it might dissipate. Until it does, you need to take care with the job of yours.

4) Your wife is an idiot.

5)Glad to hear that your daughter is sticking with you. I think that makes a ton of difference...for me, it would have broken me if they went over to the dark side. Having said that, her relationship with her mother is important. It will have to be recrafted on both of their parts. That is not your job to do, but it is your job to stay out of the way. Again, therapy can help with that.

6)The fault grounds are a bargaining chip. Start with mediation. Mind your behavior...you don't want to give her any ammunition. Esp as regards your daughter and the danger of parental alienation. 

Best of luck to you. I like your name!


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## LongWalk

Good thread here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFPhoenix

Fenix,

1. I am in the NOVA area and I will look into the Divorce/Separation group in Alexandria. Thanks for the info.

2. My daughter is REFUSING to see a counselor but I finally convinced her to go with me on my next one just to appease me. Hopefully the therapist will persuade her to continue.

3. I would essentially throw 20 years of service away just to satisfy my perceived need as a "man" to beat the crap out of him. I know they don't deserve it...but it's hard not to think about it. I've reversed strategy now that the PSA is signed and have thought about putting everything on Facebook and cheaterville.com to include his name, place of business and the whole timeline and then draft letters to his place of employment. But then again, I think it may be counter-productive. My oldest daughter tells me to leave them alone and let them implode and cave in on each other once reality sets in. One thing I know we did well is raising two smart young ladies.

4. I agree, she's an idiot. But I'm owning up to my faults.

5. It's scary because she's always been a momma's girl. Now she has turned her back on her. While I always remind her that she's still her mother and was a good mom, I can't help but to take some satisfaction. But it's a double edged sword. I don't want my girls to hurt anymore than they are and that may mean I don't follow through with thoughts of revenge, continue to work on me and my relationship with the girls and try to make peace and find forgiveness.....i'm no where near that right now.

6. Her lawyer is an idiot but smart enough to point out to her that 1. she comitted adultery and there is PLENTY of PROOF and 2. she walked out of the house. Alimony stops on 1 Jan 2015. $1300 a month. She gets half of my retirement and free medical for life and I honestly don't have a problem with that.

Thank you. I chose Phoenix to signify re-birth. I'm unfortunately still in the on fire phase.


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## AFPhoenix

I just read Zillard's first thread when he went through Divorce/Separation...what an inspiration. I'll book-mark his and Bullwinkle's threads for motivation. Thank you all for helping me through this painful journey.


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I just read Zillard's first thread when he went through Divorce/Separation...what an inspiration. I'll book-mark his and Bullwinkle's threads for motivation. Thank you all for helping me through this painful journey.


Read Reverend Winkle's for comic relief.

He's truly funny.

Zillard, Chuck71, ReGroup, GutPunch, and JeffTheChef are all recent honors graduates.


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## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix,
> 
> 1. I am in the NOVA area and I will look into the Divorce/Separation group in Alexandria. Thanks for the info.
> 
> 2. My daughter is REFUSING to see a counselor but I finally convinced her to go with me on my next one just to appease me. Hopefully the therapist will persuade her to continue.
> 
> 3. I would essentially throw 20 years of service away just to satisfy my perceived need as a "man" to beat the crap out of him. I know they don't deserve it...but it's hard not to think about it. I've reversed strategy now that the PSA is signed and have thought about putting everything on Facebook and cheaterville.com to include his name, place of business and the whole timeline and then draft letters to his place of employment. But then again, I think it may be counter-productive. My oldest daughter tells me to leave them alone and let them implode and cave in on each other once reality sets in. One thing I know we did well is raising two smart young ladies.
> 
> 4. I agree, she's an idiot. But I'm owning up to my faults.
> 
> 5. It's scary because she's always been a momma's girl. Now she has turned her back on her. While I always remind her that she's still her mother and was a good mom, I can't help but to take some satisfaction. But it's a double edged sword. I don't want my girls to hurt anymore than they are and that may mean I don't follow through with thoughts of revenge, continue to work on me and my relationship with the girls and try to make peace and find forgiveness.....i'm no where near that right now.
> 
> 6. Her lawyer is an idiot but smart enough to point out to her that 1. she comitted adultery and there is PLENTY of PROOF and 2. she walked out of the house. Alimony stops on 1 Jan 2015. $1300 a month. She gets half of my retirement and free medical for life and I honestly don't have a problem with that.
> 
> Thank you. I chose Phoenix to signify re-birth. I'm unfortunately still in the on fire phase.


Same here, but I used the Euro spelling as I was living over there at the time.

Anyway, re your daughter. She is in protection mode now. She is staying strong for you, protecting you. My daughter did the same and it is very, very common...and not all bad. When my daughter realized that I was in an ok place, she started to give in to her sadness and talk about it. She is furious with her father and they were always so close. Now, she has shut him out of her life completely and wants to change her name. She started seeing a therapist about 3 weeks ago. It has been 9 months since we told her about the break up. In one of our recent talks she told me, "Mom, you will just fall in love again. I have lost a father" She isn't all wrong and I was stunned. She now doubts everything about herself and doesn't trust her instincts on people. Sometimes I think my children were the real victims here.  It enrages me all over again. So, my advice would be not to push your daughter into it, but keep that door open. She may be more amenable to the suggestion once the crisis phase has passed.


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## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix,
> 
> 1. I am in the NOVA area and I will look into the Divorce/Separation group in Alexandria. Thanks for the info.
> 
> 2. My daughter is REFUSING to see a counselor but I finally convinced her to go with me on my next one just to appease me. Hopefully the therapist will persuade her to continue.
> 
> 3. I would essentially throw 20 years of service away just to satisfy my perceived need as a "man" to beat the crap out of him. I know they don't deserve it...but it's hard not to think about it. I've reversed strategy now that the PSA is signed and have thought about putting everything on Facebook and cheaterville.com to include his name, place of business and the whole timeline and then draft letters to his place of employment. But then again, I think it may be counter-productive. My oldest daughter tells me to leave them alone and let them implode and cave in on each other once reality sets in. One thing I know we did well is raising two smart young ladies.
> 
> 4. I agree, she's an idiot. But I'm owning up to my faults.
> 
> 5. It's scary because she's always been a momma's girl. Now she has turned her back on her. While I always remind her that she's still her mother and was a good mom, I can't help but to take some satisfaction. But it's a double edged sword. I don't want my girls to hurt anymore than they are and that may mean I don't follow through with thoughts of revenge, continue to work on me and my relationship with the girls and try to make peace and find forgiveness.....i'm no where near that right now.
> 
> 6. Her lawyer is an idiot but smart enough to point out to her that 1. she comitted adultery and there is PLENTY of PROOF and 2. she walked out of the house. Alimony stops on 1 Jan 2015. $1300 a month. She gets half of my retirement and free medical for life and I honestly don't have a problem with that.
> 
> Thank you. I chose Phoenix to signify re-birth. I'm unfortunately still in the on fire phase.


AFP,

Of course, I recommend full exposure... as public as possible.

It's tough business, but the payoff is usually almost instantaneous. If you are really fortunate, you'll get back something along the lines of this. I've saved it from a poster called the Count of Monte Cristo. Yes, this is real:

***********************

I got the following letter from the posOM's lawyer after I exposed to his wife, everyone at his office, *and the PTA at his daughter's school:*

[Names have been omitted to protect my secret identity]

Dear Count of Monte Cristo:

Please allow this letter to inform you of my representation of members of POSOM's family in relation to recent communications from you. As you are aware, you have taken agressive action against POSOM in the following ways:

1. You sent a letter to POSOM's wife with which you included a thumb drive of alleged email correspondence betwen POSOM and your wife.

2. You emailed virtually all of POSOM's co-workers and attached the same alleged email communications; and

3. You emailed the PTA of POSOM's youngest child's elementary school and attached aforementioned emails.

Mr. Count of Monte Cristo, I certainly understand your anger toward POSOM. For that reason, there will be no action taken in response to your violation of several federal and state statutes... Let me assure you that if your intent was to cause POSOM extreme pain emotionally with his family and economically with his career, you have accomplished your mission.
**********************
He finishes by saying that if I contacted POSOM or his friends, family and associates then he would be forced to take legal actions against me. However, like he said - I accomplished what I set out to do. That is, expose his lying cheating ass to the world so that they could see him for the scumbag that he really is.

Conrad here....

I can see you doing this


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

I made 100 flyers and dropped them off around his neighborhood and put them on the cars of his dealership. I sign the PSA tomorrow which stipulates that I will not interfere with STBXW's relationship with POSOM.....so....that's why I did it now. I hope he wants to talk about it.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I made 100 flyers and dropped them off around his neighborhood and put them on the cars of his dealership. I sign the PSA tomorrow which stipulates that I will not interfere with STBXW's relationship with POSOM.....so....that's why I did it now. I hope he wants to talk about it.


Is your meeting in the AM or afternoon?


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I made 100 flyers and dropped them off around his neighborhood and put them on the cars of his dealership. I sign the PSA tomorrow which stipulates that I will not interfere with STBXW's relationship with POSOM.....so....that's why I did it now. I hope he wants to talk about it.


Holymoly, you are too funny! Did you feel a bit of wicked glee?

I don't care about exposure. Do what you will unless it hurts your girls or job. I exposed to friends and family. I confronted the posow but didn't expose as I would have been thought a hysterical American. We were expats. I still fantasize about enlisting help fro the homeland security office to blacklist the pos from the US. Too bad I don't know anyone there....yet.


----------



## Brystensmom

The karma bus comes for everyone, our spouses who vowed for better or worse can't see past their own selfish "feelings" these are damaged people who do not know how to love or what it consists of, and when things get tough... they will be the ones Living in regret. 

While we have moved on whether we stay single or meet someone else, and have open honest relationships...

They will be lying to themselves and anyone else who will listen to them and live in regret.

And you cant run from yourself! They will ruin everything they touch. And through them we would have learned to protect ourselves and our families and carry on.. SMILE AND CARRY ON!!


----------



## AFPhoenix

UPDATE: I went back out to pick up the flyers that I spread around. I got back 32 out of the 50. I decided that everyone that needs to know and even some people that have no business to know, already know. 

I'm not taking her back. I'm mad as hell about what she/they did but I need to start being the bigger person. Fenix, you're right, it could jeaporadize my career and my daughter. Most of the flyers that I didn't get were at the dealership. I'm sure he got the message.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> UPDATE: I went back out to pick up the flyers that I spread around. I got back 32 out of the 50. I decided that everyone that needs to know and even some people that have no business to know, already know.
> 
> I'm not taking her back. I'm mad as hell about what she/they did but I need to start being the bigger person. Fenix, you're right, it could jeaporadize my career and my daughter. Most of the flyers that I didn't get were at the dealership. I'm sure he got the message.


I'm glad to read this. I don't subscribe to the vengeful exposure tactic. It brings you down to their level. You know the truth. Vent here. Passing out the flyers keeps attention on poor you the victim. You're not a victim.

People with a brain can figure it out without needing a flyer. One day she's with you, the next day gone, the next day with someone else. Meanwhile you're still you: loyal, respectful, honorable, responsible, etc.

But even better, you're now hi-speed and low drag because a useless tumor has been removed from your body. And it dropped off by itself, like a leeching tick.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> UPDATE: I went back out to pick up the flyers that I spread around.


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> But even better, you're now hi-speed and low drag because a useless tumor has been removed from your body. And it dropped off by itself, like a leeching tick.


Love this.

I work very hard to focus on the positive and relinquish the negative. Revenge tactics drag you down into the negative. When you have children, that can be very dangerous territory.

Vent here...vent with your close friends and try not to say anything negative to your children (that is very hard, because even a facial expression speaks volumes).

AFP, are you taking care of your health? Exercising and not drinking too much? I know that sounds very mother hen but it's important. Helps you deal with the stress of it all. Good luck today.


----------



## IronWine29

AFP -- don't forget the best revenge is living well.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix,

I have been taking care of myself. Through this process I have dropped 20 lbs. I don't recommend this diet plan! It's funny. I have never cooked before only grilled. Now my daughter and I are experimenting every night with new recipe's that we have found online, in cook books, and from friends and family. I'm enrolling us in a cooking class next month. I think it's a nice father/daughter bonding experience.

I also noticed that I don't drink a glass or two of wine everynight like I once did. It's a long story, but her father passed away in 2010, my mother passed away in 2011, and my father passed away in 2012. To say that I withdrew is an understatement. I thought this contributed to her leaving me but she told me that she checked out of the marriage before that. I was devastated, but I am determined to deal with my grief. What they say is true. Divorce is like a death. For me, it was worse. I didn't feel this bad when my parents passed away. I suppose it was because I thought she was there for me.

It may make me sound weak and pathetic, but I didn't leave my bedroom for 2 days after she left me. I have never felt that low and sad and angry. Now, I'm starting to realize that I had severe co-dependcy issues.....I have been with her for half of my life. High School sweethearts, the only woman i've ever loved, the only woman i've ever been intimate with, yada-yada-yada. I'm starting to seperate myself from her. Starting to find that I do have my own personal identity that is not tied to her. I am waking up.


----------



## AFPhoenix

IW,

I know that the best revenge is living well. I also know that those who plot revenge need to dig two graves. I'm somewhere in the middle. Maybe i'll dig one grave for all three of us.....KIDDING...KIDDING


----------



## helolover

AFP, the OM is white knight beta who has pursued a married woman. He is as blue pill as it gets. He is a chump who is already doing her bidding (chores, errands, etc). 

He has chosen a cheating woman as his new partner. 

This is embarrasing. All you have to do to even the score is watch the train wreck of this buffoonery from afar. Living well is the best revenge.


----------



## ReGroup

helolover said:


> AFP, the OM is white knight beta who has pursued a married woman. He is as blue pill as it gets. He is a chump who is already doing her bidding (chores, errands, etc).
> 
> He has chosen a cheating woman as his new partner.
> 
> This is embarrasing. All you have to do to even the score is watch the train wreck of this buffoonery from afar. Living well is the best revenge.


LOL. helo is right. LOL. 

:rofl:

helo, you also made me laugh about my situation.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix,
> 
> I have been taking care of myself. Through this process I have dropped 20 lbs. I don't recommend this diet plan! It's funny. I have never cooked before only grilled. Now my daughter and I are experimenting every night with new recipe's that we have found online, in cook books, and from friends and family. I'm enrolling us in a cooking class next month. I think it's a nice father/daughter bonding experience.


 Great idea! I dropped 15 lbs and stopped cooking. I loved to cook and used it to express my creativity and love. My kids got me a subscription to Bon Appetit for Christmas.  They missed my cooking.


> I also noticed that I don't drink a glass or two of wine everynight like I once did. It's a long story, but her father passed away in 2010, my mother passed away in 2011, and my father passed away in 2012. To say that I withdrew is an understatement. I thought this contributed to her leaving me but she told me that she checked out of the marriage before that. I was devastated, but I am determined to deal with my grief. What they say is true. Divorce is like a death. For me, it was worse. I didn't feel this bad when my parents passed away. I suppose it was because I thought she was there for me.


 Agreed. About the only thing harder that I can imagine would be the death of my child.


> It may make me sound weak and pathetic, but I didn't leave my bedroom for 2 days after she left me. I have never felt that low and sad and angry. Now, I'm starting to realize that I had severe co-dependcy issues.....I have been with her for half of my life. High School sweethearts, the only woman i've ever loved, the only woman i've ever been intimate with, yada-yada-yada. I'm starting to seperate myself from her. Starting to find that I do have my own personal identity that is not tied to her. I am waking up.


  Believe me, I understand. Similar situation here. But, I am finding out that waking up is very fun. It feels good to have me back.


----------



## wilderness

My thoughts and prayers go out to you for enduring such a difficult and gut wrenching situation.


----------



## Pictureless

helolover said:


> AFP, the OM is white knight beta who has pursued a married woman. He is as blue pill as it gets. He is a chump who is already doing her bidding (chores, errands, etc).
> 
> He has chosen a cheating woman as his new partner.
> 
> This is embarrasing. All you have to do to even the score is watch the train wreck of this buffoonery from afar. Living well is the best revenge.


Is it too early to nominate this for best post of the year?


----------



## AFPhoenix

As I was sitting here fighting the urge to re-distribute the flyers, to text my STBXW that she doesn't realize how she's ripped my heart out, to text POSOM that I want to rip his heart out and generally feeling sorry for myself. Why? Because I thought about all the times I heard STBXW say I thought you were going to make more of yourself when we married. I thought about all the times I went out of my way to try to make her happy just to make me happy......then I followed Zillard's from A to Z thread.

I find myself gravitating more to Bullwinkle's personality but want to be more like Zillard's (no offense BW). I am so thankful that I found this blog last Nov. When I say that it has saved my life, I am not exaggerating. So......

I did not re-distribute the flyers....I did not text. I find myself determined to do the NC/180 but find myself disappointed that she doesn't reach out to me more often. That only makes me think she's happy while I'm not. I know that's not the case, she is just more stubborn and head strong than I am/was.

I'm afraid to be alone. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough for another woman. I'm afraid of being afraid...and that makes me angry. I know I'm good enough. STBXW is an amazingly gorgeous woman but she's BPD, shallow, and narcissistic. Why can't I let go?


----------



## Chuck71

your STBX and POSOM will, believe it or not, have.........

commitment issues...... shocker isn't it :rofl:

It is healthy to be alone

there are some things you want to do with others around

whereas others, alone

when I write, I must be alone, 3AM

it takes no effort to feel sorry for yourself

but we ALL were at that point in the past

the best thing for you to do is wish her well, walk away

most likely.....if you gave with kindness, they come back around

almost always too late....but it is closure

mine just did almost a year to the day we were D

Luckily you don't have to tell females one word

your eyes let them know all they need to

you're getting there........ slow but steady


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Chuck...I notice that you're a mentor on some of these threads. I'll look at your story. Again, thanks. If you helped BW, RG, and Zillard on their journey, you're a very good man.


----------



## ICLH

180, 180, 180, 180.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> I'm afraid to be alone. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough for another woman. I'm afraid of being afraid...and that makes me angry. I know I'm good enough. STBXW is an amazingly gorgeous woman but she's BPD, shallow, and narcissistic. Why can't I let go?


You are not alone. She is...in every sense of the world. You have your daughters and your friends. Reach out when you need to. One of the things that I discovered on this path was just how wonderful people really are. I was humbled by the generosity shown to me. Tap into that....and you never know where you are going to find it.

Mystbx was also shallow and narcissistic. I was never good enough. If I was fit enough (never been overweight), I wasn't tan enough. But I know, just like your stbx, that he was wrong. How can a mate who is narcissistic see their spouse clearly? They can't...and they don't want to.

It still really hurts though. It hurts that your dreams for the future are dashed and you have to build a new reality. It hurts that someone you loved could disrespect you so totally. It also hurts that you let it happen...didn't see it for what it was. 

All I can say is you are going to have to walk the path.

It is really lovely outside now. 30 degrees, snowing and about 1 foot of snow on the ground. Get out there today. Fill your lungs with that cold, clean air, look around you and notice the beauty.


----------



## Pictureless

I have nothing more to add to the already great advice given. Just saying we're all with you because we've been there. 

I smoked 2 cigarettes yesterday. I used to smoke 2 packs a day. Hit the elliptical for 30 minutes, lifted weights for 15 minutes, and went swimming for 15 minutes. I dropped soda from diet. I miss chips more than my STBXW.

I have a short term goal to get ripped. At my age not likely  but it's still better than living like a veal which is how it was with STBXW. The light gets brighter every day and the taste of freedom gets sweeter. 

Yup, like the others above, there are moments when you miss them. But then you realize you miss being in love, not the person. It's like a fever, it comes and goes quick. Otherwise, I'm still the same minus the baggage and drama. If I knew it would be this easy I wouldn't have even bothered with the R.

Last night I hit the tricep fly machine. I hurt so good right now. I can't wait to bench tonight.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> As I was sitting here fighting the urge to re-distribute the flyers, to text my STBXW that she doesn't realize how she's ripped my heart out, to text POSOM that I want to rip his heart out and generally feeling sorry for myself. Why? Because I thought about all the times I heard STBXW say I thought you were going to make more of yourself when we married. I thought about all the times I went out of my way to try to make her happy just to make me happy......then I followed Zillard's from A to Z thread.
> 
> I find myself gravitating more to Bullwinkle's personality but want to be more like Zillard's (no offense BW). I am so thankful that I found this blog last Nov. When I say that it has saved my life, I am not exaggerating. So......
> 
> I did not re-distribute the flyers....I did not text. I find myself determined to do the NC/180 but find myself disappointed that she doesn't reach out to me more often. That only makes me think she's happy while I'm not. I know that's not the case, she is just more stubborn and head strong than I am/was.
> 
> I'm afraid to be alone. I'm afraid that I'm not good enough for another woman. I'm afraid of being afraid...and that makes me angry. I know I'm good enough. STBXW is an amazingly gorgeous woman but she's BPD, shallow, and narcissistic. Why can't I let go?


Still confused about the flyers, but to each his own.

There is no duty to make things easier for them.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

Believe me I want to take the flyers and staple them to his head but in reality, he's just an idiot that fell into her trap. Friends and family know the truth. I know blood is thicker than water but all her siblings stand behind me. It's a long story...an interesting one that I may share on here.

Pictureless,

I am back in the gym working harder than ever. I am getting ripped. Now that I've dropped the 20 lbs, I'm down to 165 lbs and benching 245. I've stopped drinking sodas and drinking more water and taking supplements. 

Fenix,

You're absolutely right. I told her when we first moved up here that while I was sad that D16 would be moving out in 2 years, I was looking forward to it just being the 2 of us after all these years. She told me later that she actually dreaded that thought. She always had a way of kicking me when I was down. Now, I'm seeing that she needs me more than I need her.

Update:

STBXW texts me this morning telling me that she and her lawyer were "nice" to me and that in reality, I owe her so much more. She said she stood behind me while I obtained my undergrad and 2 grad degrees. 

She's not working and has been going back to school full time for her RN. I'm happy to say that I have not responded. She is coming over to pick D16 up on Saturday. I'll be in my new clothes ready to go out. It actually bothered her last Saturday. Small victories.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Don't miss her a bit even if you do. Act like you own the world. Go the guys from Goodfella's on her 

And if you do want to hurt the OM, literally, go Goodfella's but not yourself doing the work


----------



## Pictureless

Well, I had a backslide today. 

My STBXW texted me. I didn't respond. But I did eat some potato chips. Darn, I was doing so good too. 

I did hit the gym. I was the only alpha male there on beta blockers, but what the bleep do I care. My sneakers are older than half the members there. The weights were really heavy today. Think I might be doing too much too soon.

Going out with my meet-up group tomorrow night. Should be interesting eating a meal with 5 complete strangers. Then again not much different from sharing a bed with Scrooge.

You have to laugh at some point. I never dreamed I'd meet her. I never dreamed I'd lose her. Life is crazy funny cool.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH,

Getting someone to go Goodfellas on POSOM would not be as good as me doing it. Like I told him, we will settle one day.

Pictureless,

We all backslide...but you went to the gym AFTER the chips right? I know what you mean about the weights. When I started a month and a half ago, I way over did it. I did a lot of work on the heavy bag!

I'm actually going on a 4 minute speed dating with my meetup group on the 23rd....I'm a little nervous and wonder if I'm actually ready to date.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Too funny. I'm going to physical therapy, I'm messing up a foot working out too much. Staff is actually stopping me to ask how much weight I'm losing.

Maybe there is a hollywood movie in this.

Three guys.... three women in their rear view mirror... surgeries in the future. Why is it former college cheerleaders and drug reps now like them?


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> Well, I had a backslide today.
> 
> 
> Going out with my meet-up group tomorrow night. Should be interesting eating a meal with 5 complete strangers.




My kids and I have a joke. Whenever I am going to dinner or a movies with a meet up group I just say I am going out with my 50 new best friends. They are getting tired of hearing it, but it still cracks me up.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I'm very sorry to hear that Z. I can only imagine the kind of pain you feel.

Actually, I'm benching 245....I need to edit that, but hope to get back to my max and exceed it in 6 months. I work out at the LA Fitness in Manassas, Woodbridge so if you'd like a work out partner I'm available. They have a room with heavy bags and a great racquetball court. 

I'm not sure what advice to give you on the revenge tactic...I know the "right" answer but I also know the need to exact some justice. I can only say fight the urge...

Thank you for the kind words. I also wish you peace and hope you also have a quick recovery.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Z,

STBXW has D16 on Sat and I will be close to DC. If you're going to be in DC Sat night let me know. I wouldn't mind meeting for a pint or 2. Friends are never a bad thing to make.


----------



## LBHmidwest

>>>will be in DC in early March for work. Quick trip in and out to the hill though.


----------



## LBHmidwest

And hey, you made me think of Keyser Soze (Verbal). I'm thinking you are kinda upset!


"He lets the last Hungarian (POSOM) go. He waits until his wife and kids are in the ground and then he goes after the rest of the mob. He kills their kids, he kills their wives, he kills their parents and their parents' friends. He burns down the houses they live in and the stores they work in, he kills people that owe them money. And like that he was gone. Underground. Nobody has ever seen him since. He becomes a myth, a spook story that criminals tell their kids at night. "Rat on your pop, and Keyser Soze will get you." And no-one ever really believes."


----------



## AFPhoenix

The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist....love that movie.

LBH, I will be out of town from Feb 27-08 Mar. If you're in town after that let me know!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fenix

Wow, Zappy, just wow. That must have been incredibly difficult.


----------



## Pictureless

AFP, 

You're really benching 245? WTF! What do you eat for breakfast, cannonballs? 

For real, Satan does exist and he wants people to stay asleep. As long as people engage in idolatry of self he will be a very happy camper.

Fenix, 

I hear that! If you told me a year ago that my smartest and most understanding friends would be on a web page called TAM I would have laughed. 

LBH,

If that movie gets made I'll be the first to buy it on blu-ray.

Zappy,

Chips serve a purpose. They're crispy, crunchy, salty, and great with dip or salsa. The XW is fattening and bad for my heart health. 

All,

I'm down for a real life meet up some day. And if you want to stay in touch outside of TAM there's always Google+.


----------



## Conrad

Do you believe part of the "idolatry of self" is to blame your partner for everything without looking inward?


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Do you believe part of the "idolatry of self" is to blame your partner for everything without looking inward?


Nope. They are two different things.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Nope. They are two different things.


No they're not.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> No they're not.


Yes they are.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Yes they are.


When you start to own your own stuff, you'll understand.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> When you start to own your own stuff, you'll understand.


Who says I haven't?  That's not the same as idolatry of self.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Who says I haven't?  That's not the same as idolatry of self.


It isn't so much what someone does talk and write about as what they don't talk about.

The stuff we run from about ourselves... the stuff we try to conceal. I've heard it called the shadow side. Us at our ugliest. Owning it is the key to moving forward.

And, yes, protecting that crap from the daylight is idolatry of self.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Benching 245 as a max is nothing to write home about. When I work out with that in 6 months I'll let you know. 

Conrad, I'm intrigued by your idolatry of self. I agree with Pictureless, I think they are two different things but find a commonality between them. Almost if they were a double helix.

I was dreading today: I wrote a poem, but I'm not going to give it to her.

​*I Remember*
I remember the first time I saw her
Time literally stood still
My heart beat fast and my sight was a blur
But she would be mine, it was God’s will

I remember our wedding day
The summer’s sweltering heat
As she walked down the aisle, I began to sway
She was finally mine, oh, so sweet

I remember the Christmas before her mother died
This began the end
Throughout the years, many tears that were cried
This is when I lost her, but I would not break, only bend

I wish I didn’t remember her say
I want something more
My heart shattered that day
Hopefully God will one day restore

I started to remember our life
I gave my best
She didn’t appreciate the good but embraced the strife
I prayed nightly for her love, instead God gave me a test

I remember the morning I realized she doesn’t deserve me
She longed for him
I decided to let her go, to set her free
When my heart is whole once more I won’t give it away on a whim


----------



## AFPhoenix

I just got an e-mail from a buddy of mine. I had told him that I was searching for my own identity. Everything I had, I mean everything, e-mail, FB, passwords, all had us tied together. It was always AFPnSTBXW. 

He said, "I've never identified you as AFP who's married to STBXW. I've only known you as AFP, the reliable, consistent, intelligent, sarcastic, witty, friend who I spent a lot of time in green pajamas and sitting in a freezing simulator room with. if we sat down today and drank a pint of Guinness, it'd be the same AFP I knew years ago. But I probably wouldn't tease you about your daughter being pregnant". That meant a lot to me.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> It isn't so much what someone does talk and write about as what they don't talk about.
> 
> The stuff we run from about ourselves... the stuff we try to conceal. I've heard it called the shadow side. Us at our ugliest. Owning it is the key to moving forward.
> 
> And, yes, protecting that crap from the daylight is idolatry of self.


I agree that everyone has their POS behaviors. Not addressing them or fixing them will only create more problems and baggage for future relationships. But that is not idolatry of self.

Idolatry of self eventually leads a person to think that they know everything and rely upon only themselves. Their judgment, their decisions, their needs, their wants, their desires, their way-all the time. Them first. It's the height of selfishness. You shouldn't get married if your first thought is, what's in it for me?

It should be, what's in it for us? Why should we incorporate this relationship into a marriage? What are our goals?

Believe whatever you want. I believe that marriage calls for a self sacrificing love. It's not always about you. It's about two people being committed to each other for the sake of each other. Sometimes other people come first. It really is better to give than receive. That doesn't mean you blindly become a doormat.


----------



## Conrad

Many people confuse "self-sacrificing love" with enabling behavior.

When the desired response to their "self-sacrificing love" doesn't materialize, they get angry.

Oftentimes, the end game of such a dynamic is for their partner to steamroll them out of the relationship, with outrageous behavior, up to and including affairs.

If these people don't learn about relationship dynamics, they will move to the next relationship and practice their "self-sacrificing love" on their next abuser.

And, it will be THEIR pos tendencies that are primarily to blame.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I can relate to that Conrad. It's something I'm going to bring up at my next IC meeting.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Many people confuse "self-sacrificing love" with enabling behavior.
> 
> When the desired response to their "self-sacrificing love" doesn't materialize, they get angry.
> 
> Oftentimes, the end game of such a dynamic is for their partner to steamroll them out of the relationship, with outrageous behavior, up to and including affairs.
> 
> If these people don't learn about relationship dynamics, they will move to the next relationship and practice their "self-sacrificing love" on their next abuser.
> 
> And, it will be THEIR pos tendencies that are primarily to blame.


I agree with you.  Self-sacrificing love can be a suicide pact if there is no boundaries. That is not idolatry of self or owning ones pos tendencies. I wrote what I believe idolatry of self is. You answered with codependency. 

Conrad, I get your take on things here; I've read enough of your stuff to understand. I also agree with you often. I just don't agree with you that all relationships that end badly are due to victim hood and/or codependency. Why is that so hard for you to acknowledge? And don't go all nice guy on me again.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I agree with you. Self-sacrificing love can be a suicide pact if there is no boundaries. That is not idolatry of self or owning ones pos tendencies. I wrote what I believe idolatry of self is. You answered with codependency.
> 
> Conrad, I get your take on things here; I've read enough of your stuff to understand. I also agree with you often. I just don't agree with you that all relationships that end badly are due to victim hood and/or codependency. Why is that so hard for you to acknowledge? And don't go all nice guy on me again.


I'll believe you when I quit hearing you blame her for everything and start owning your own stuff.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> I'll believe you when I quit hearing you blame her for everything and start owning your own stuff.


Hey-I owned my crap buddy. I put the work in. Everybody says I did everything possible. 

I owned my share and we both apologized and agreed to try an R. We did MC and went to church as well. The slate was supposedly wiped clean. But she bailed. That's not my fault because I can't control that.

BTW I followed up with the MC's and pastor. I asked MC's about codependency. Both said no, they didn't see that in either of us. I asked the pastor. He said she stopped going to church shortly after dday2. 

It's like you wrote elsewhere. The disordered go to great lengths to keep up appearances. 

Sorry, you're wrong here. And I'm entitled to my emotions too pal. I made mistakes, so did she, but she called it quits, not me. She acted like everything was fine. Then boom. So I was either used, plan b, both, idk but in the end the suck is still the same.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Hey-I owned my crap buddy. I put the work in. Everybody says I did everything possible.


That's not what I'm talking about.

Immediately to the defense.

That IS what I'm talking about.

http://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> That's not what I'm talking about.
> 
> Immediately to the defense.
> 
> That IS what I'm talking about.
> 
> An Overview of the Drama Triangle


Yes, immediately to the defense when someone is wrongly labeling your circumstances incorrectly.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Yes, immediately to the defense when someone is wrongly labeling your circumstances incorrectly.


From your reports, it's how you interact with her.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> From your reports, it's how you interact with her.


And how she interacted with me.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> And how she interacted with me.


Changing the dynamic means introspection and changing yourself. And, I mean dropping the defensiveness and letting your pride go.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Changing the dynamic means introspection and changing yourself. And, I mean dropping the defensiveness and letting your pride go.


I did. Been there, done that.

Even MC couldn't get her to own HER POS tendencies. Sorry if stating facts invalidates your triangle. I was there and I'm sharing what happened. It takes two to save a marriage. 

Dude, its over. I believe her. She doesn't love me anymore. Why I don't know. POSOM? IDK. Used me all along? IDK. Greener grass? IDK. But If she loved me she wouldn't be divorcing me next week. 

Or maybe it's just as simple as that she is not good at marriage. Her third ending in divorce. My first. I guess the more often you do it the easier it is to end them.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I did. Been there, done that.
> 
> Even MC couldn't get her to own HER POS tendencies.


Good luck to you.

No matter what I say or do, it's impossible to get your focus off her.

A bunch of us were really pissed and upset that our partners hurt us also. Many of us have gotten to the point where we realize we're just not all that important - and that we have our own shix to own. It leads to humility and peace.

But, it's not for everyone.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Good luck to you.
> 
> No matter what I say or do, it's impossible to get your focus off her.
> 
> A bunch of us were really pissed and upset that our partners hurt us also. Many of us have gotten to the point where we realize we're just not all that important - and that we have our own shix to own. It leads to humility and peace.
> 
> But, it's not for everyone.


Good luck to you. Our whole conversation today was because of your comments to one of my post. You shouldn't be so codependent upon what I write here.

We talked about her because she was in the relationship. You say I am focused on her and what she did. Telling you what happened is not focusing exclusively on her while ignoring my stuff. I told the history. If you think that is focusing on her, I'm sorry you feel that way.

You're funny.


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist....love that movie.
> 
> LBH, I will be out of town from Feb 27-08 Mar. If you're in town after that let me know!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Im there right as you are gone a the end


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist....love that movie.
> 
> LBH, I will be out of town from Feb 27-08 Mar. If you're in town after that let me know!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I'm there right as you are gone a the end


----------



## AFPhoenix

I'm happy to report that I survived the 1st V-day without STBXW and I didn't text her...of course she didn't text me and that bothered me to an extent. I met up with Z and we went and played pool together. Thanks for distracting me Z.


----------



## Pictureless

AFP,

I'm grateful that I can see, walk, hear, and taste food. I don't have a terminal disease. I can read. I'm so happy to listen to my music

I have a wonderful family, my mom is still alive, I have many nieces and nephews. Brothers and sisters are the best friends to have.

My church is great, so many happy and caring people there. Bible study group is fun because we not only worship but we also socialize and become closer friends. It's not like work or a club; nobody cares about how much you make, how you dress, and if you're cool or not.

Going to the gym is great. I forgot how much I enjoy exercise. Right now my arms are aching badly from last workout. I'm grateful I can feel pain. My body is telling me slow down, we need time heal and grow.

AFP, what are you grateful for?


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> AFP,
> 
> I'm grateful that I can see, walk, hear, and taste food. I don't have a terminal disease. I can read. I'm so happy to listen to my music
> 
> I have a wonderful family, my mom is still alive, I have many nieces and nephews. Brothers and sisters are the best friends to have.
> 
> My church is great, so many happy and caring people there. Bible study group is fun because we not only worship but we also socialize and become closer friends. It's not like work or a club; nobody cares about how much you make, how you dress, and if you're cool or not.
> 
> Going to the gym is great. I forgot how much I enjoy exercise. Right now my arms are aching badly from last workout. I'm grateful I can feel pain. My body is telling me slow down, we need time heal and grow.
> 
> AFP, what are you grateful for?


The ability to feel gratitude and express it is very powerful, esp. in the healing process.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Saturdays are visitation days with STBXW and D16. I ask D16 what time her mom is coming to pick her up and she said she's not...she's going on a date night tonight. I asked her if her mom called. D16 said no, I saw it on FB.

I walk away...I think about everything I'm supposed to be doing. So I stay at 50K. I don't text the two POS sorry individuals. 

I do feel sorry for D16 even though she said she didn't want to go with her anyway. This saddens me. STBXW is further dividing the rift between them. But I can't control that or try to fix it. 

This does help me think about the person that STBXW is/has become. On paper we are still husband and wife. In reality, she stopped being my wife a long time ago. So, my anger has subsided, I'm reading a good book by Gary Chapman, who wrote the 5 love languages, called Anger: Handling a Powerful Emotion in a Healthy Way, and I tell D16 that she and I will go on a date tonight and do not let this bother her. While I was tempted to dive down and do a little strafing, the view from 50K is much better.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless,

What am I grateful for? I'm grateful for my two girls and my family that has surrounded me during this difficult time. I'm thankful that I have my health and that I can provide for D16. I'm thankful for God carrying me...I think about the footsteps Poster and know that there is no way I could handle this burden without him. I am also thankful that I found this website.


----------



## IronWine29

Thanks for the inspiration AFP. Took D20 out for dinner. She is an amazing young woman. Best Valentine's Day weekend in years.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Saturdays are visitation days with STBXW and D16. I ask D16 what time her mom is coming to pick her up and she said she's not...she's going on a date night tonight. I asked her if her mom called. D16 said no, I saw it on FB.
> 
> I walk away...I think about everything I'm supposed to be doing. So I stay at 50K. I don't text the two POS sorry individuals.
> 
> I do feel sorry for D16 even though she said she didn't want to go with her anyway. This saddens me. STBXW is further dividing the rift between them. But I can't control that or try to fix it.
> 
> This does help me think about the person that STBXW is/has become. On paper we are still husband and wife. In reality, she stopped being my wife a long time ago. So, my anger has subsided, I'm reading a good book by Gary Chapman, who wrote the 5 love languages, called Anger: Handling a Powerful Emotion in a Healthy Way, and I tell D16 that she and I will go on a date tonight and do not let this bother her. While I was tempted to dive down and do a little strafing, the view from 50K is much better.


good bet you'd have more fun in an outing with D16

also good bet she'd have more fun with dad than being left

at home while mom galavants with posom

how you respond to stbx is being closely viewed by D16

you will be the one she comes to when her heart gets broken


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> Read Reverend Winkle's for comic relief.
> 
> He's truly funny.
> 
> Zillard, Chuck71, ReGroup, GutPunch, and JeffTheChef are all recent honors graduates.


In Dec '12 me, Group, GP and Z were basket cases

one by one we all picked ourselves up and moved on

I was the only one without children so I learned a lot

from the other three, probably "for future reference" 

I learned a great deal from all three, I hope they did from me


----------



## AFPhoenix

Like an idiot I looked at POSOM's Facebook. STBXW blocked me from hers. Why did I torture myself? I wanted to share his post on my FB for the rest of our friends to see but my D22 told me not to bother. 

STBXW posted crap about what she got him/he got her and she had 1 like. I'll let her continue to look like the heartless idiot she is. How did I ever love something like that? Better yet, why didn't I leave a long time ago? I know why, but the reasons seem very stupid right now. For better or for worse and vows can only go so far when only one person is fighting for the marriage. 

It still hurts though. It hurts really bad.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Like an idiot I looked at POSOM's Facebook. STBXW blocked me from hers. Why did I torture myself? I wanted to share his post on my FB for the rest of our friends to see but my D22 told me not to bother.
> 
> STBXW posted crap about what she got him/he got her and she had 1 like. I'll let her continue to look like the heartless idiot she is. How did I ever love something like that? Better yet, why didn't I leave a long time ago? I know why, but the reasons seem very stupid right now. For better or for worse and vows can only go so far when only one person is fighting for the marriage.
> 
> It still hurts though. It hurts really bad.


STOP viewing FB, you're not in high school

you're also not @ 50k


----------



## IronWine29

You get the urge to check out STBXW FB anytime soon, text her this instead:
Damien Rice - Rootless Tree - YouTube


----------



## AFPhoenix

Yes, I know Chuck...that's the problem when family/friends try to help out....they call and text "do you know what STBXW said on FB?" For now on I'm going to say I don't care.

Good song IW. Here's one I like:
Limp Bizkit - Re-Arranged - YouTube


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Yes, I know Chuck...that's the problem when family/friends try to help out....they call and text "do you know what STBXW said on FB?" For now on I'm going to say I don't care.
> 
> Good song IW. Here's one I like:
> Limp Bizkit - Re-Arranged - YouTube


my friends did this too, my reply "IDGAF"

your recovery does not include FB updates

as far as a song to send

KISS - Burn ***** Burn "Video" - YouTube


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Like an idiot I looked at POSOM's Facebook. STBXW blocked me from hers. Why did I torture myself? I wanted to share his post on my FB for the rest of our friends to see but my D22 told me not to bother.
> 
> STBXW posted crap about what she got him/he got her and she had 1 like. I'll let her continue to look like the heartless idiot she is. How did I ever love something like that? Better yet, why didn't I leave a long time ago? I know why, but the reasons seem very stupid right now. For better or for worse and vows can only go so far when only one person is fighting for the marriage.
> 
> It still hurts though. It hurts really bad.


Exposure punctures that ridiculous fog.


----------



## IronWine29

Love the Fred Durst.

This is my favorite song. Kept me going on many a POS inspired run:

Dropkick Murphys- Warrior's Code - YouTube


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

They've been exposed. Right now it's pure stubbornness on her part. Same old song and dance: she didn't leave me for him, she needed time to find herself before getting into a serious relationship, it's my fault that I pushed her into this corner. I'm not playing the victim any more. They both are going to crumble and I'll be there to watch.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> They've been exposed. Right now it's pure stubbornness on her part. Same old song and dance: she didn't leave me for him, she needed time to find herself before getting into a serious relationship, it's my fault that I pushed her into this corner. I'm not playing the victim any more. They both are going to crumble and I'll be there to watch.


when someone sits in the victim chair

they rewrite history and blameshift

they tell those lies so much, they actually believe them

AFP..... it may very well be.... "Al Bundy" just happened

to be around when she glued her arse to victim chair

Al Bundy and her may think "it's love" but if it

were not Al, it would have been someone else, regardless

at least yours didn't end up seeing a guy named Ray Ray

yes.......Ray Ray.......


----------



## AFPhoenix

This guy's name is Jack Croft...supposedly played for the Raider's in the 90's as an offensive lineman...and was Sylvester Stallone's body guard. I can't find one thing on him. All I know is he lives in a basement apartment as a 48 year old 2X divorced car salesman. So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


----------



## Kevinb

Mate, it says more about her than it says about you.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> This guy's name is Jack Croft...supposedly played for the Raider's in the 90's as an offensive lineman...and was Sylvester Stallone's body guard. I can't find one thing on him. All I know is he lives in a basement apartment as a 48 year old 2X divorced car salesman. So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


Says plenty about her.

Absolutely nothing about you.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> This guy's name is Jack Croft...supposedly played for the Raider's in the 90's as an offensive lineman...and was Sylvester Stallone's body guard. I can't find one thing on him. All I know is he lives in a basement apartment as a 48 year old 2X divorced car salesman. So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


a one time NFLer would have numerous pics posted

at work and FB.... from what you have seen, he has neither

same goes for shadowing Sly

if it makes you feel at ease, I checked the Raiders team photos

1990-94, no JC..... but hey...... if Al Bundy don't work out with

your stbx, I could see if WC is available

two bull$hitters for price of one :rofl:


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


Going through an ordeal doesn't make a person better or worse, but it does allow them to show the world who they really are.

Think about it. Someday you'll laugh at this. You will. 

This reminds me of "True Lies." She's leaving a real life action figure to go play with a broke d!ck bottom feeder. That says nothing about you, but plenty about her. 

She's got issues. Like mine, maybe you didn't notice before, but clearly you do now. Let it go. It sucks and it seems like she's "winning" right now but think long term. She's going to lose out in the end. She already has and you know it.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> .what does that say about me?


Absolutely nothing, my friend.

Chuck71, Ray Ray? I am sorry but that is effin hilariousl


----------



## Pictureless

Fenix said:


> Chuck71, Ray Ray? I am sorry but that is effin hilariousl


I know...I laughed out loud too. Really? 

Hi, I'm Ray Ray. 

Nice to meet you. I'm Jennifer Jennifer.


----------



## helolover

AFPhoenix said:


> This guy's name is Jack Croft...supposedly played for the Raider's in the 90's as an offensive lineman...and was Sylvester Stallone's body guard. I can't find one thing on him. All I know is he lives in a basement apartment as a 48 year old 2X divorced car salesman. So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


It says nothing about you. 

It says she left her husband and family for a fantasy. For a fraud. She's one jacked up little cupcake. This Croft guy isn't in the NFL players registery, assuming he played American pro football. 

Brother, stop looking at her stupid FB. Look away from the impending train wreck. 

Focus on you.....

You can't see the gift you have been given from this person. You get to escape this broken woman. You're missing the idea of her you carried in your mind. She is not this person. She is showing you who she is --- loudly and clearly.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks for the tough love guys...I should have never looked at his FB page.

Pictureless
too funny, I also compared our situation to True Lies with her.

Chuck
I not only searched all over the internet for his name when I first found out about them, I also called the Raider's organization and sent her the phone number and the person I talked to. 

Of course he had an excuse, he was on the practice squad and was hurt in a car accident....I told STBXW that he still had to sign a contract and they would have had a record of it. She bought it hook line and sinker.

I chose this picture because it was in June of last year before moving up here. Notice the red eyes of the devil herself : )


----------



## AFPhoenix

Before STBXW gave me the "ILYBINILWY" speech, she told me that during her past 6 months of counseling, her therapist helped her see that she was unable to forgive me for things in the past. Her sister even told me that she was having second thoughts on moving up here.

Needless to say I was crushed. The event that allowed her to build up resentment all these years happened in 1998. Her mother was diagnosed with Leukemia in 1997 and had went through a round of chemo.

We were home visiting for Christmas and split our time between three households, her parents', my mom's, and my dad's houses. We had spent up to Christmas eve with her parents. D16 at the time was D4months. When we stopped back by her parents house to pick something up, her mother was sick from the chemo and was trying to do chores. STBXW wanted to stay there and just visit my side during the day.

I refused. My mother wanted to spend time with us and have us spend the nights there as well. 2 months later STBXW's mother passed away. I admitted that I was wrong, so wrong. I have begged her for forgiveness and tried to make up for that.

That's one reason why I forgave her of her first affair in 2004.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Before STBXW gave me the "ILYBINILWY" speech, she told me that her past 6 months of counseling her therapist helped her see that she was unable to forgive me for things in the past. Her sister even told me that she was having second thoughts on moving up here.
> 
> Needless to say I was crushed. The event that allowed her to build up resentment all these years happened in 1998. Her mother was diagnosed with Leukemia in 1997 and had went through a round of chemo.
> 
> We were home visiting for Christmas and split our time between three households, her parents', my mom's, and my dad's houses. We had spent up to Christmas eve with her parents. D16 at the time was D4months. When we stopped back by her parents house to pick something up, her mother was sick from the chemo and was trying to do chores. STBXW wanted to stay and there and just visit my side during the day.
> 
> I refused. My mother wanted to spend time with us and have us spend the nights there as well. 2 months later STBXW's mother passed away. I admitted that I was wrong, so wrong. I have begged her for forgiveness and tried to make up for that.
> 
> That's one reason why I forgave her of her first affair in 2004.


Would you characterize your marriage as one where you were constantly expected to kiss her ass?


----------



## IronWine29

AFP I spent a lot of time thinking about this recently. One of the things that always confused me was that both of my ex's POSOMs were schmucks. The first was 12 years younger, the second 20 years older. Neither was a looker.

I was in the best physical shape of my life. Like Ironman fitness. The best I can figure, that triggered her fear of abandonment. She was still, in her words, a "catch," and it was time for her to trade up.

She wasn't looking for a better looking guy, a smarter guy, a funnier guy, or a fitter guy. She was looking for someone who was better at making her feel good about herself. Someone who flattered her and made her look good -- by comparison. Even though I was totally codependent in the relationship, I no longer met her needs.

Its almost like she left me because I was the better man. That's just warped.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

I'm sorry to say that's what I did. I like to consider myself an Alpha male, confident not arrogant, and fun to be around. It's sad when her siblings tell me that they don't know why I allowed her to berate me. I'm still trying to unravel that myself.


----------



## Conrad

IronWine29 said:


> AFP I spent a lot of time thinking about this recently. One of the things that always confused me was that both of my ex's POSOMs were schmucks. The first was 12 years younger, the second 20 years older. Neither was a looker.
> 
> I was in the best physical shape of my life. Like Ironman fitness. The best I can figure, that triggered her fear of abandonment. She was still, in her words, a "catch," and it was time for her to trade up.
> 
> She wasn't looking for a better looking guy, a smarter guy, a funnier guy, or a fitter guy. She was looking for someone who was better at making her feel good about herself. Someone who flattered her and made her look good -- by comparison. Even though I was totally codependent in the relationship, I no longer met her needs.
> 
> Its almost like she left me because I was the better man. That's just warped.


Our perceptions come first from the subconscious.

Realizing that, we must ensure that the subconscious perception(s) of us are when we're our most attractive.

That does not mean being as nice and accommodating as possible. Our culture lies to us daily about what people really want in their lives.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> I'm sorry to say that's what I did. I like to consider myself an Alpha male, confident not arrogant, and fun to be around. It's sad when her siblings tell me that they don't know why I allowed her to berate me. I'm still trying to unravel that myself.


It's likely pretty simple.

As a youngster, it made you feel good to put a smile on mom's face and make her proud.

That's how you learned to interact with females you loved.

Nothing is more risky in an LTR


----------



## IronWine29

Conrad said:


> Our perceptions come first from the subconscious.
> 
> Realizing that, we must ensure that the subconscious perception(s) of us are when we're our most attractive.
> 
> That does not mean being as nice and accommodating as possible. Our culture lies to us daily about what people really want in their lives.


Not saying I was better because I was nicer. In fact, I was starting to stand up for myself. Better in the conventional sense -- stable, hardworking, good looking, not a drug user, not an alcoholic. POSOMs, not so much.


----------



## Conrad

IronWine29 said:


> Not saying I was better because I was nicer. In fact, I was starting to stand up for myself. Better in the conventional sense -- stable, hardworking, good looking, not a drug user, not an alcoholic. POSOMs, not so much.


They took what they wanted and took care of themselves.

Guess how that comes across to many females?

Subconsciously, they perceive that "this one will keep me safe"


----------



## AFPhoenix

My STBXW had the audacity to say she wanted a separation to figure out her feelings...that she was confused...she wanted to do this while still dating POSOM. She said she wasn't sure she wanted to give up the life that we built but she didn't think it was fair to me to not be the wife I deserve. I told her that she was right about not being fair, and I was not going to allow her to date POSOM and have me standing by for scraps.


----------



## IronWine29

Conrad said:


> They took what they wanted and took care of themselves.
> 
> Guess how that comes across to many females?
> 
> Subconsciously, they perceive that "this one will keep me safe"


Yeah, but couldn't she have picked better looking guys to cheat with? She picked the low hanging fruit. Off the ground.


----------



## Conrad

IronWine29 said:


> Yeah, but couldn't she have picked better looking guys to cheat with? She picked the low hanging fruit. Off the ground.


We're way more visual than they are.

We can admire an attractive leg without giving a whit who it's attached to.

Women aren't that way.

Attractiveness isn't "primarily" visual for them.


----------



## Fenix

Conrad said:


> We're way more visual than they are.
> 
> We can admire an attractive leg without giving a whit who it's attached to.
> 
> Women aren't that way.
> 
> Attractiveness isn't "primarily" visual for them.


Nope, and many a partner has forgotten that. I am not a cheater; just a BS that is back on the "market". A pretty face is just icing on the cake...I am looking for something else.

eta: well, if I was looking


----------



## Pictureless

Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.










Regina Giddens (Bette Davis), a shrewd businesswoman, schemes, first against her dying husband, then against her two brothers. “You'll wreck the town,” charges Horace (Herbert Marshall) at his ambitious wife, “you'll wreck the country, if they let you, you and your kind.” 

After finally sharing his thoughts with his ruthless wife, Regina coldly tells Horace, "I hope you die. I hope you die soon. I’ll be waiting for you to die."

Later, Regina speaks of her marriage to Horace, "It didn't take me long to find out my mistake. Then it was just as if I couldn't stand the sight of you. I couldn't bear to have you touch me. I thought you were such a soft weak fool, you were so understanding when I didn't want you near me. The lies and excuses I used to make to you, and you believed them. That was when I began to despise you." 

Agitated, Herbert asks, "Why didn't you leave me?" Regina replies, "Where was I to go? What money did I have? I didn't think about it much, if I had, I'd have known you'd die before I did. But I couldn't have guessed you'd get heart trouble so early and so bad. I'm lucky Horace. I've always been lucky. I'll be lucky again." 

Trapped in a loveless marriage to submissive, sickly a man, Regina retorts, “I've always had contempt for you.” 

“Why did you marry me” asks the helpless Horace.

“I thought you'd get the world for me,” she replies, conveying her disillusionment with love and marriage.


----------



## Chuck71

Fenix said:


> Absolutely nothing, my friend.
> 
> Chuck71, Ray Ray? I am sorry but that is effin hilariousl


I had a few big posts about it on Angst's thread but he nuked it

I did make mention of him in my LaD thread

He claimed he was a pilot but Ray Ray's pic was with a headset

on a go cart....... friendly skies? youbetcha :rofl:

the ironic part, in the near year since his pic was used as WCs

cover photo, there has not been any newer ones

no pics of them together

but I'm sure he's busy, trips to Rio, Cape Town, Sydney


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regina Giddens (Bette Davis), a shrewd businesswoman, schemes, first against her dying husband, then against her two brothers. “You'll wreck the town,” charges Horace (Herbert Marshall) at his ambitious wife, “you'll wreck the country, if they let you, you and your kind.”
> 
> After finally sharing his thoughts with his ruthless wife, Regina coldly tells Horace, "I hope you die. I hope you die soon. I’ll be waiting for you to die."
> 
> Later, Regina speaks of her marriage to Horace, "It didn't take me long to find out my mistake. Then it was just as if I couldn't stand the sight of you. I couldn't bear to have you touch me. I thought you were such a soft weak fool, you were so understanding when I didn't want you near me. The lies and excuses I used to make to you, and you believed them. That was when I began to despise you."
> 
> Agitated, Herbert asks, "Why didn't you leave me?" Regina replies, "Where was I to go? What money did I have? I didn't think about it much, if I had, I'd have known you'd die before I did. But I couldn't have guessed you'd get heart trouble so early and so bad. I'm lucky Horace. I've always been lucky. I'll be lucky again."
> 
> Trapped in a loveless marriage to submissive, sickly a man, Regina retorts, “I've always had contempt for you.”
> 
> “Why did you marry me” asks the helpless Horace.
> 
> “I thought you'd get the world for me,” she replies, conveying her disillusionment with love and marriage.


Every once in awhile, Hollywood lets the truth slip through.

Blue Valentine is a current version of the above.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Yesterday was a knock me back down again day. I crafted some well thought out responses to his family that had posted on his FB page on how beautiful STBXW is. 

I never did hit send (sorry Conrad). Like many of you, I have been doing a lot of reflection the past 3 1/2 months. I did this in 2004 but I guess it was worse this time because she actually left.

I know that what I'm mourning was just an illusion. STBXW is a great actress but she wasn't always this cold hearted. I find myself missing the good in her. I miss the mess she made on the bath room counter with all her products. I miss watching her put her make-up on. I miss the way she smells.

I find that I don't reach for her as much in the middle of the night. As many of you have said, I'm waking up. What I really miss is what I really wanted in a relationship. Someone who respects me, honors me, loves me, and nurtures me. 

At the gym tonight, I noticed a lady watching me in the mirror. She finally comes over to make small talk (even though I had my head phones in). We talk for a little, then I wish her a good work out. She waved at me before she left. Waking up is a good thing.


----------



## Conrad

Respect, love, and honor yourself first.

The world will follow suit.


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> Yesterday was a knock me back down again day. I crafted some well thought out responses to his family that had posted on his FB page on how beautiful STBXW is.
> 
> I never did hit send (sorry Conrad). Like many of you, I have been doing a lot of reflection the past 3 1/2 months. I did this in 2004 but I guess it was worse this time because she actually left.
> 
> I know that what I'm mourning was just an illusion. STBXW is a great actress but she wasn't always this cold hearted. I find myself missing the good in her. I miss the mess she made on the bath room counter with all her products. I miss watching her put her make-up on. I miss the way she smells.
> 
> I find that I don't reach for her as much in the middle of the night. As many of you have said, I'm waking up. What I really miss is what I really wanted in a relationship. Someone who respects me, honors me, loves me, and nurtures me.
> 
> At the gym tonight, I noticed a lady watching me in the mirror. She finally comes over to make small talk (even though I had my head phones in). We talk for a little, then I wish her a good work out. She waved at me before she left. Waking up is a good thing.


I've had more female colleagues and friends tell me in the last few months how intelligent, kind, gentle, and good dad than my wife did in the last 8 years. I've turned down dates, thought about taking up a few vague offers for drinks but haven't done that either. Nice to have people asking how much weight I've lost, my face looks thinner, and so on. 

I can't fix her but I can make me better. It's hard to feel like you don't know what part of your previous life was true and fake, but I thought it was good and it will be again. I didn't enjoy sitting by an empty chair tonight, but I doubt it will be empty next year.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Good attitude LBH.


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> Good attitude LBH.


Didn't mean to make it about me, we are all brothers and sisters here in this strange left behind fraternity.

Hang in there


----------



## AFPhoenix

No worries...feel free to say whatever you want. I'm learning from you guys as I go along. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one. And I'm seeing that while I had faults, I didn't deserve this.


----------



## AFPhoenix

STBXW, (I really need to come up with a nickname any suggestions?) calls D16 today to take her to lunch and give her the Valentine's day presents she bought (without a job). 

D16 tells her that she's too busy today. STBXW is crying on the phone. D16 feels bad and said she will go out with her. I'm not looking forward to seeing STBXW. Luckily, STBXW picks her up in the drive way.

On the way to the gym, I pass STBXW and D16 in the neighborhood. I wave, STBXW does not. When I get home from the gym, I ask D16 how the visit went. D16 said she didn't eat because she was still full from the breakfast we cooked this morning.

D16 tells me that she hurt her mother's feelings. D16 made me a fantastic card. I love the cards she makes me. She has done this since she was 5 years old. I still have the note she made me when she packed me a lunch when she was 10 years old. She learned this from me. I wrote her a poem named Daughter. She loves my home made cards as well.

STBXW sees the card that D16 made me. STBXW asks if D16 made her one. D16 says no. STBXW storms out of the house crying. 

The old me would have tried to fix it. Try to take the pain away. 

It's not my job. I do remind D16 that she's still her mother that loves her very much. D16 says if she loved me, she would not have chosen him over me on Sat. I don't know what to say. I'm taking her to my next IC.


----------



## IronWine29

This is really the hardest part, because it is pretty important to the kids' well-being that they have positive relationships with both parents. I told D20 to try to get along with ex and to be polite to POSOM#2.

My love for my kids is greater than any anger I feel towards her.

I have to admit, I feel a little glee when I hear about the drama. But I keep that to myself.


----------



## AFPhoenix

IW,

I know how you feel...but I feel guilty because it's at the expense of my girls. But I too took a small amount of satisfaction that STBXW is miserable.


----------



## tom67

Hey if your d doesn't want anything to do with her that's her choice imo at 16.
Your W caused this why should she be surprised heck it's a good wake up call of her new reality.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Yes Tom, reality is starting to slap her in the face. One reason why I didn't message his family from the FB fiasco is that I know STBXW is close to fleeing back to Alabama. If she does, I know D16 wants to go back as well. D16 has already told her that she will not live with her if she does. So....I'll let POSOM take care of her while I keep my D16. As Charlie Sheen says, "I'm winning".


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> STBXW, (I really need to come up with a nickname any suggestions?.


Pigskin Groupie

Raider Baiter 

Chemistry-deficient Nurse



you are about the ninth guy I have read about recently 

who married a nurse and they went off the deep end

nurses mean to help others

but how can those, who yet not know how to help themselves

my 2nd love was a nurse

my running buddies (X)wife (I was 'worst man') was nurse


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> Pigskin Groupie
> 
> Raider Baiter
> 
> Chemistry-deficient Nurse
> 
> 
> 
> you are about the ninth guy I have read about recently
> 
> who married a nurse and they went off the deep end
> 
> nurses mean to help others
> 
> but how can those, who yet not know how to help themselves
> 
> my 2nd love was a nurse
> 
> my running buddies (X)wife (I was 'worst man') was nurse


The healthcare industry is filled with more codependents than any other. They want to save the world. They'd be much better off saving themselves.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: Raider Baiter is a good one. I think I'll use that.

Conrad: I suppose to an extent we were both co-dependent on each other. While I knew that our marriage had problems, we had drifted so far apart over the years, went through a lot of trauma in our relationship, I still held true to my vows. I believe in for better or for worse. Raider Baiter is a very beautiful woman, but to be honest, she is not very intelligent. I'm not saying that out of meanness...it just happens to be the truth. D22 is on the phone with her every day explaining Microsoft Word to her.


----------



## IronWine29

Had 2nd meeting today with psych doing the custody eval for minor son. We went over both sets of responses to the survey.

I included page after page of examples of her POS behavior. I let her have it.

The most common theme from her responses: I won't speak to her on the phone or acknowledge her in person during custody transfer.

Seriously.


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> The healthcare industry is filled with more codependents than any other. They want to save the world. They'd be much better off saving themselves.


:iagree:


----------



## Chuck71

IronWine29 said:


> Had 2nd meeting today with psych doing the custody eval for minor son. We went over both sets of responses to the survey.
> 
> I included page after page of examples of her POS behavior. I let her have it.
> 
> The most common theme from her responses: I won't speak to her on the phone or acknowledge her in person during custody transfer.
> 
> Seriously.


honestly..... that is VERY common

in a way it is very damn funny

but very sad at the same time

good luck with custody battle


----------



## IronWine29

Chuck71 said:


> honestly..... that is VERY common
> 
> in a way it is very damn funny
> 
> but very sad at the same time
> 
> good luck with custody battle


Thanks. I have primary, she is challenging. After my first interview, the doc told me she's going to have a very hard time flipping the order.

It's been seven months since I last spoke to her on the phone. Just in disbelief...she expects me to talk to her? And her response after POSOM#1 was, "I'm not even talking to him anymore?"


----------



## Chuck71

IronWine29 said:


> Thanks. I have primary, she is challenging. After my first interview, the doc told me she's going to have a very hard time flipping the order.
> 
> It's been seven months since I last spoke to her on the phone. Just in disbelief...she expects me to talk to her? And her response after POSOM#1 was, "I'm not even talking to him anymore?"


University of Reality
MWF 9:00 to 9:50
Dysfunctional and Delusional WS 101

Day 1-Rugsweeping, Deniability, and Rewritting of History


----------



## Pictureless

Might I suggest Doris for STBXW? You can call POSOM Boris to keep with the True Lies theme.

Don't worry about daughter. Kids are resilient and smarter than we think. They naturally gravitate to the loving, caring parent.


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> Might I suggest Doris for STBXW? You can call POSOM Boris to keep with the True Lies theme.
> 
> Don't worry about daughter. Kids are resilient and smarter than we think. They naturally gravitate to the loving, caring parent.


I just use an acronym. LCB for Lying, cheating bastard. I refuse to use his name as it accords him too much respect. With my kids, it is ''your dad''. In my phone though, it is LCB. I need to set the ring tone to an appropriate song though. Maybe, who let the dogs out?

AFP, I was surprised to read that your daughter would go with her mother. Has she always wanted to go to Alabama? Isn't she settled here with her friends? Or is it a case of daughters should be with their mothers? Anyway, couldn't you get a court order that the child can't move farther than x miles away or out of state? Then you don't have to live with that specific fear.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless,

Like Jaime Lee Curtis, Raider Baiter has a nice pair of lungs. Of course, Raider Baiter's were augmented. 

I know children are resilient and it may be just a teen age girl phase, but D16 is withdrawn, does not want to talk with me, and spends a lot of time on the phone with her boyfriend in Alabama. I'm afraid that when life crashes on Raider Baiter, she will pull D16 back to Alabama. D16 wants to stay with me, but the draw of her sister, family, friends, and boyfried weighs on her.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> Pictureless,
> 
> Like Jaime Lee Curtis, Raider Baiter has a nice pair of lungs. Of course, Raider Baiter's were augmented.
> 
> I know children are resilient and it may be just a teen age girl phase, but D16 is withdrawn, does not want to talk with me, and spends a lot of time on the phone with her boyfriend in Alabama. I'm afraid that when life crashes on Raider Baiter, she will pull D16 back to Alabama. D16 wants to stay with me, but the draw of her sister, family, friends, and boyfried weighs on her.


Scrooge had bolt-ons too. Turned out to be just like her: cold, hard and fake.

Sounds like daughter is going through normal teenage stuff which is coinciding with your divorce. 

FWIW, I tried to warn Scrooge that the day may come when one or both of her kids might want to live with their dad all the time. When that day came she blamed me of course. 

I guess what I'm saying is your daughter is 16. Are you preparing for the possibility that she may want to live with Raider?


----------



## AFPhoenix

I am preparing...myself and her. D16 made it clear that if she moved back to Alabama, she wants to live with her sister and not with her mother. I can't help but feel a little joy and sadness that she does not want to live with her. D16 once was a momma's girl when she was a baby, but ever since she was around 7, she became a Daddy's girl. I hate the position that she's in. D16 found all the sexting/pic messages on Raider's phone. That in itself makes me furious. I wish I could have protected her from all the sordid details.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I am preparing...myself and her. D16 made it clear that if she moved back to Alabama, she wants to live with her sister and not with her mother. I can't help but feel a little joy and sadness that she does not want to live with her. D16 once was a momma's girl when she was a baby, but ever since she was around 7, she became a Daddy's girl. I hate the position that she's in. D16 found all the sexting/pic messages on Raider's phone. That in itself makes me furious. I wish I could have protected her from all the sordid details.


The pictures were probably what made her decision easier.

The truth helps people.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> I am preparing...myself and her. D16 made it clear that if she moved back to Alabama, she wants to live with her sister and not with her mother. I can't help but feel a little joy and sadness that she does not want to live with her. D16 once was a momma's girl when she was a baby, but ever since she was around 7, she became a Daddy's girl. I hate the position that she's in. D16 found all the sexting/pic messages on Raider's phone. That in itself makes me furious. I wish I could have protected her from all the sordid details.


I feel you. You can only protect her against the things you can fight. That's why the truth is naked and lies are covered up; sometimes the truth hurts.


----------



## Pictureless

Did you say you were in the Air Force?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Lol, I don't remember every really saying, but yes, I am. So much for OPSEC.


----------



## Pictureless

Get rid of Raider as fast as you can before she tries to leech more of your benefits. I'm so thankful I didn't waste VA home loan on Scrooge. Once all legal ties are cut if she wants more milk she can try the Eagle's teet. I don't even want her buried next to me. Let POSOM worry/plan/pay for that. Roger!


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Pictureless,
> 
> Like Jaime Lee Curtis, Raider Baiter has a nice pair of lungs. Of course, Raider Baiter's were augmented.
> 
> I know children are resilient and it may be just a teen age girl phase, but D16 is withdrawn, does not want to talk with me, and spends a lot of time on the phone with her boyfriend in Alabama. I'm afraid that when life crashes on Raider Baiter, she will pull D16 back to Alabama. D16 wants to stay with me, but the draw of her sister, family, friends, and boyfried weighs on her.


you just described most 16 y/o girls period

high school is a trying time..... trying to line up a good college,

body image, her b/f two states away

add the pressure of her parents D

and every one telling her to move on from her AL b/f

you pretty much described the lead female character

in my book.... she turned 16 in 1988

the only constant D16 sees right now....is her b/f


----------



## Chuck71

Pictureless said:


> Scrooge had bolt-ons too. Turned out to be just like her: cold, hard and fake.
> 
> ?


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> I am preparing...myself and her. D16 made it clear that if she moved back to Alabama, she wants to live with her sister and not with her mother. I can't help but feel a little joy and sadness that she does not want to live with her. D16 once was a momma's girl when she was a baby, but ever since she was around 7, she became a Daddy's girl. I hate the position that she's in. D16 found all the sexting/pic messages on Raider's phone. That in itself makes me furious. I wish I could have protected her from all the sordid details.


little girls seek out their father's approval a number of years

before puberty.... she learns all the talk of M and notices

daddy is a man, I will marry a man

a young girl with a strong bond with her father

has a much better chance at life success

and choosing a M partner


----------



## Chuck71

any time you get the phrase "it will be a cold day in he!!"

pertaining to an agenda you are instituting

and the spouse (M or F) does not like it because it 

does not benefit them..... try emailing this



 -46°F 
Deadhorse, AK
Unknown Precipitation -46°F 
Unknown Precipitation 
Feels like -76°


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless: Too late...she is getting half of my retirement and TSP...when i choose to retire, which will be probably 10 more years. She also has free medical for life now. 

We were married two years prior to me joining. I hit 20 in September, she started her affair beginning of Oct. I don't think it's a coincidence. 

I'm really ok with her getting half of my retirement. She did pack up and move while caring for my girls through many deployments and TDYs. I stop alimony payments in Dec. $1300 a month which is less than all the bills she took with her. POSOM is paying her way now. I wonder how long that will last?


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Pictureless: Too late...she is getting half of my retirement and TSP...when i choose to retire, which will be probably 10 more years. She also has free medical for life now.
> 
> We were married two years prior to me joining. I hit 20 in September, she started her affair beginning of Oct. I don't think it's a coincidence.
> 
> I'm really ok with her getting half of my retirement. She did pack up and move while caring for my girls through many deployments and TDYs. I stop alimony payments in Dec. $1300 a month which is less than all the bills she took with her. POSOM is paying her way now. I wonder how long that will last?


A guy I work with is retired Navy.

$3,000 per month in alimony to his ex


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad said:


> A guy I work with is retired Navy.
> 
> $3,000 per month in alimony to his ex


my stomach..... just tightened up....in a bad way


----------



## AFPhoenix

He didn't have my lawyer. Raider was complaining that her lawyer charged her another $250 from the $1900 she initially dropped as a retainer. In Nov, she paid $350 for an initial consult with a different lawyer. Like I said, she's not very smart.

Of course, I suppose neither was I. Until i started to wake up.


----------



## Pictureless

I demanded mine waive everything in writing, including TSP. I told her if you go after mine I'll go after yours. She wouldn't split our jointly purchased property evenly. She wouldn't even give me back my $8 can opener, she said I had no use for it.

Mine just watched tv while I was deployed. So she says.

I guess sex, money, retirement, funeral and retirement benefits are magically new and better with greener grass. :smthumbup:

I don't hate her. Really I honestly dont, I'm just baffled. She's 49 going on 17.

And if it is a POSOM, you'd really have to wonder about her mental health. After 3 divorces wouldn't anyone pause to wonder what it is that they are doing wrong to have so many failed marriages instead of just hoping in to bed with a new guy like nothing happened. :lol:


----------



## GutPunch

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> They've been exposed. Right now it's pure stubbornness on her part. Same old song and dance: she didn't leave me for him, she needed time to find herself before getting into a serious relationship, it's my fault that I pushed her into this corner. I'm not playing the victim any more. They both are going to crumble and I'll be there to watch.


Hopefully....you won't care to watch. Then you will have achieved your destination.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> I demanded mine waive everything in writing, including TSP. I told her if you go after mine I'll go after yours. She wouldn't split our jointly purchased property evenly. She wouldn't even give me back my $8 can opener, she said I had no use for it.
> 
> Mine just watched tv while I was deployed. So she says.
> 
> I guess sex, money, retirement, funeral and retirement benefits are magically new and better with greener grass. :smthumbup:
> 
> I don't hate her. Really I honestly dont, I'm just baffled. She's 49 going on 17.
> 
> And if it is a POSOM, you'd really have to wonder about her mental health. After 3 divorces wouldn't anyone pause to wonder what it is that they are doing wrong to have so many failed marriages instead of just hoping in to bed with a new guy like nothing happened. :lol:


Not if they simply continue to point fingers and blame others.

We've spoken about this many times.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Not if they simply continue to point fingers and blame others.
> 
> We've spoken about this many times.


I guess so. I don't remember. I'm all over the board and trying to soak it all up.

Just back from the gym. I'm bushed. I'm actually getting sleepy as i write this. My arms are going to leave me too if I keep lifting.

Divorce court tomorrow. Our case should take about 10 minutes. I'm hoping driving away afterwards will be the end of the ride.

It's very weird, not sad but weird, that tomorrow will be the last time I lay eyes on her. The head knows I'll be better off, just got to get it through my heart.


----------



## just got it 55

AFPhoenix said:


> This guy's name is Jack Croft...supposedly played for the Raider's in the 90's as an offensive lineman...and was Sylvester Stallone's body guard. I can't find one thing on him. All I know is he lives in a basement apartment as a 48 year old 2X divorced car salesman. So my STBXW left me for that....what does that say about me?


AFP It say nothing about you

It's all about her

55


----------



## Betrayedone

Pictureless said:


> I have nothing more to add to the already great advice given. Just saying we're all with you because we've been there.
> 
> I smoked 2 cigarettes yesterday. I used to smoke 2 packs a day. Hit the elliptical for 30 minutes, lifted weights for 15 minutes, and went swimming for 15 minutes. I dropped soda from diet. I miss chips more than my STBXW.
> 
> I have a short term goal to get ripped. At my age not likely  but it's still better than living like a veal which is how it was with STBXW. The light gets brighter every day and the taste of freedom gets sweeter.
> 
> Yup, like the others above, there are moments when you miss them. But then you realize you miss being in love, not the person. It's like a fever, it comes and goes quick. Otherwise, I'm still the same minus the baggage and drama. If I knew it would be this easy I wouldn't have even bothered with the R.
> 
> Last night I hit the tricep fly machine. I hurt so good right now. I can't wait to bench tonight.


Good job Pictureless......you are recovering very quickly!


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> I guess so. I don't remember. I'm all over the board and trying to soak it all up.
> 
> Just back from the gym. I'm bushed. I'm actually getting sleepy as i write this. My arms are going to leave me too if I keep lifting.
> 
> Divorce court tomorrow. Our case should take about 10 minutes. I'm hoping driving away afterwards will be the end of the ride.
> 
> It's very weird, not sad but weird, that tomorrow will be the last time I lay eyes on her. The head knows I'll be better off, just got to get it through my heart.


Good luck, Pictureless. I hope it is smooth and tomorrow becomes a great start for your future.


----------



## AFPhoenix

My thoughts and prayers are with you Pictureless. I hope peace finds you soon.


----------



## IronWine29

Pictureless said:


> It's very weird, not sad but weird, that tomorrow will be the last time I lay eyes on her. The head knows I'll be better off, just got to get it through my heart.


From now on, she's just someone you used to know.


----------



## Chuck71

Pictureless said:


> I guess so. I don't remember. I'm all over the board and trying to soak it all up.
> 
> Just back from the gym. I'm bushed. I'm actually getting sleepy as i write this. My arms are going to leave me too if I keep lifting.
> 
> Divorce court tomorrow. Our case should take about 10 minutes. I'm hoping driving away afterards will be the end of the ride.
> 
> It's very weird, not sad but weird, that tomorrow will be the last time I lay eyes on her. The head knows I'll be better off, just got to get it through my heart.


it's a business deal..... nothing more

the snatch on the table soured up months ago


----------



## AFPhoenix

I stopped by a little watering hole close to my neighborhood last night since D16 was doing her own thing. A nice lady left her group of friends to sit next to me. It turns out she's a Dr.....ok, she's a veterinarian, but still a Dr. She's a little older but very nice looking and smelled fantastic....but....during our conversation some things that bothered me.

1) she's an atheist...while I'm not a religious fanatic, I do believe in God.

2) like me, she's loves to disect lyrics to get to their meaning...she's a huge Rush fan, I'm to the other extreme. I don't like Rush but can appreciate their lyrics. We both like Pink Floyd, but she literaly balked at the Beastie Boys, Eminem, Taylor Swift...refuses to listen to them...so much for disecting lyrics.

3) and the deal breaker....she hates football. Thinks it's the stupidest game ever invented. 

At the end of the night, she asks for my number and gives me hers...I hesitate in giving her my number. I told her that I enjoyed our conversation and that I would not mind giving her my number but only on the premise of friends only. I wasn't looking to score points but that's exactly what I did because she texted me later that night and first thing this morning.

If anything, that boosted my self-esteem and for that I'm grateful.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> I stopped by a little watering hole close to my neighborhood last night since D16 was doing her own thing. A nice lady left her group of friends to sit next to me. It turns out she's a Dr.....ok, she's a veterinarian, but still a Dr. She's a little older but very nice looking and smelled fantastic....but....during our conversation some things that bothered me.
> 
> 1) she's an atheist...while I'm not a religious fanatic, I do believe in God.
> 
> 2) like me, she's loves to disect lyrics to get to their meaning...she's a huge Rush fan, I'm to the other extreme. I don't like Rush but can appreciate their lyrics. We both like Pink Floyd, but she literaly balked at the Beastie Boys, Eminem, Taylor Swift...refuses to listen to them...so much for disecting lyrics.
> 
> 3) and the deal breaker....she hates football. Thinks it's the stupidest game ever invented.
> 
> At the end of the night, she asks for my number and gives me hers...I hesitate in giving her my number. I told her that I enjoyed our conversation and that I would not mind giving her my number but only on the premise of friends only. I wasn't looking to score points but that's exactly what I did because she texted me later that night and first thing this morning.
> 
> If anything, that boosted my self-esteem and for that I'm grateful.


Wow....you got into some heavy discussion fast!  I mean, Rush and Football...that is 3rd date material for sure!
Glad you had fun and also happy that you gave her your number but said friends only.


----------



## AFPhoenix

The only thing we didn't talk about was global warming! We talked for 2 1/2 hours, and the time flew by. It was fun. Were you able to touch base with Morgiana about our DMV TAM going out group?


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> I stopped by a little watering hole close to my neighborhood last night since D16 was doing her own thing. A nice lady left her group of friends to sit next to me. It turns out she's a Dr.....ok, she's a veterinarian, but still a Dr. She's a little older but very nice looking and smelled fantastic....but....during our conversation some things that bothered me.
> 
> 1) she's an atheist...while I'm not a religious fanatic, I do believe in God.
> 
> 2) like me, she's loves to disect lyrics to get to their meaning...she's a huge Rush fan, I'm to the other extreme. I don't like Rush but can appreciate their lyrics. We both like Pink Floyd, but she literaly balked at the Beastie Boys, Eminem, Taylor Swift...refuses to listen to them...so much for disecting lyrics.
> 
> 3) and the deal breaker....she hates football. Thinks it's the stupidest game ever invented.
> 
> At the end of the night, she asks for my number and gives me hers...I hesitate in giving her my number. I told her that I enjoyed our conversation and that I would not mind giving her my number but only on the premise of friends only. I wasn't looking to score points but that's exactly what I did because she texted me later that night and first thing this morning.
> 
> If anything, that boosted my self-esteem and for that I'm grateful.


1-most highly educated people are atheist. Personally I believe in God but have numerous issues with "organized religion." it is common for many atheists I know, to have resentments for 
religion rooted from their government dislike. doesn't mean she is not spiritual.

2-Dude you need to listen to Rush. I did not discover them until college. Check out Bastille Day. But I'm with you on her not even listening to other groups. Every group / song has a backdrop, even NWA.

3-Well she's not a Raider fan :lol: See if she is into baseball. Nothing like the smell of fresh cut grass on a diamond during spring training.

Catch a drink or dinner and find out more about her.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: I have at times struggled with the belief in God, so I understand her skepticism as a person with a background in science.

A co-worker of mine would play Tom Sawyer over...and over...and over. I have an aversion to Getty Lee. I'll read the lyrics.

She is a hockey fan. She grew up in NY. Hockey never caught on with me...but I do enjoy all sports. I am looking forward to going to a Nats game this summer. 

I'm not averse to going out for a drink or dinner. Friends are never a bad thing to make. I just don't want her to fall too fast for me.......


----------



## Conrad

Lighten up Francis.



Don't overthink things.

Just go with what you are - and you're not - ok with.

Her reactions are on her.


----------



## Pictureless

IronWine29 said:


> From now on, she's just someone you used to know.


The D is done. It took about 12 minutes. The D will be final in 120 days.

Met my safe friends for coffee. Safe friends thinks I will be better off in the long run. Safe friends believe it's a POSOM and that this was planned for a long time. They recommended I go home and cry and be thankful that it's over. I don't think so. She's not worth the tears.

Iron, I don't think I ever really knew her until the end, when her true nature became unmasked.

Not a whole lot to say. It's done and over. Life for now is gym, church, and bible study. Going out to dinner tonight with my meet-up group.

Don't know why, but I feel like a failure.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Let me just say congratulations Pictureless. Don't consider yourself a failure, consider yourself a success. You held true to your character and stood up for yourself and for the marriage. Go celebrate. I have one favor...tell me the same thing in Nov when my divorce is final.


----------



## LBHmidwest

You're not a failure.


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> The D is done. It took about 12 minutes. The D will be final in 120 days.
> 
> Met my safe friends for coffee. Safe friends thinks I will be better off in the long run. Safe friends believe it's a POSOM and that this was planned for a long time. They recommended I go home and cry and be thankful that it's over. I don't think so. She's not worth the tears.
> 
> Iron, I don't think I ever really knew her until the end, when her true nature became unmasked.
> 
> Not a whole lot to say. It's done and over. Life for now is gym, church, and bible study. Going out to dinner tonight with my meet-up group.
> 
> Don't know why, but I feel like a failure.


Largely because you're unable to forgive yourself.


----------



## Pictureless

Conrad said:


> Largely because you're unable to forgive yourself.


That's true. But I will in time.

And like my safe friend said this morning, even though Scrooge haunts you now, you will make friends with her. Then it's just like leaving Iraq; just one more thing in the rearview mirror.

My safe friend is very wise. I'm blessed to know him.


----------



## Pictureless

zappy88200 said:


> Your plain and simple english keeps a smile on my face, it was hysterically funny.


I'm glad someone appreciates my humor.


----------



## Pictureless

zappy88200 said:


> Reading your post revived the same exact feelings I had gone through on the Divorce day.
> 
> The scheduled time was 9:30 AM, I reached parking around 9:45 AM and saw my ex's car parked.
> 
> I ran to the designated office and asked a lady clerk about my case, she said your wife was here and it is now over.
> 
> I asked where is my wife and the lady clerk said she left.
> 
> That was my last chance to see her after year and a half so I ran down to see if she was there.
> 
> She wasn't there and her car was gone, she disappeared like a fart in the wind.
> 
> I know the feeling sir. My heart was pounding faster than B52 bomber and I kept looking at the sky.
> 
> Z


Why was your heart pounding? Did you want to see her?


----------



## Chuck71

Pictureless said:


> The D is done. It took about 12 minutes. The D will be final in 120 days.
> 
> Met my safe friends for coffee. Safe friends thinks I will be better off in the long run. Safe friends believe it's a POSOM and that this was planned for a long time. They recommended I go home and cry and be thankful that it's over. I don't think so. She's not worth the tears.
> 
> Iron, I don't think I ever really knew her until the end, when her true nature became unmasked.
> 
> Not a whole lot to say. It's done and over. Life for now is gym, church, and bible study. Going out to dinner tonight with my meet-up group.
> 
> Don't know why, but I feel like a failure.


Little story....back in high school I would work for pop

I was his version of cheap labor and.....he could fire me every other day

one thing I learned, he always expected more from himself than anyone else

I guess that rubbed off on me, I'm really glad it did

As far as the band I was in 25 years ago, grad school, my 1st M

I was always my own worst critic, fair but demanding

yet on the other side, I was c0cksure about my abilities and talents

I expect 100% from anyone I work with but I ask 110% from myself

No one was ever meant to be perfect

hell my greatest achievements come after failures

nothing wrong with getting knocked down

key is how you get back up


----------



## Pictureless

I am my own worst critic sometimes. I have to remember that it's ok to fail. I think I got this from my time in the Army. I always worked hard to keep all bases covered; I always had many soldiers to worry about. You can take the boy out of the Army, but you can't take the Army out of the boy. Yup, I see that...I'm ordering myself to be permanently "at ease."

My safe friend told me this morning that I did what I could now forget it and move on. He was laughing and smiling. He was like, "did you seriously think you would make it with Scrooge?"

He's not the only one that has said that. I feel like a fool. Wow, love does blind you.


----------



## LongWalk

Zappy,

You have a child you've never seen?


----------



## Pictureless

zappy88200 said:


> Hi PL - why do you keep calling your friend as "Safe Friend"
> 
> Any significance?
> 
> Z


Yes there is significance. I forget who, but someone via PM suggested a book called *Safe People*. It's been very helpful to me. I see so much of me and Scrooge in it. She has many of the unsafe people traits, and I have several as well; also several that we both shared. Thing is, I never had some of these traits until _after _ we were married. Us human animals are funny critters.

I'm sorry to hear about how things went on the day of your divorce. Have you ever seen the kid?


----------



## LBHmidwest

zappy88200 said:


> Badly....I really really wanted to see her.
> 
> I was only waiting for this day so I could see her.
> 
> After she left our apt on July 1, 2012 (while she was 5 1/2 months pregnant) I never got a chance to see her except may be 2 times when she was in court taking false PO against me.
> 
> How can some one be so so cruel. She left and never looked back not for once, like we were never married.
> 
> Un-freaking-believable.
> 
> Z


Sorry man, crazy.

I know a guy that moved out of his twice while his wife was pregnant. They were medical professionals. The third time, she never let him back in. We always wondered why they had child 2 and 3....


----------



## Pictureless

Wtf. I don't know what to say Z.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless: Z's story is heart wrenching. We had a few beers on Vday while shooting pool. Not my first thought of an ideal date on Vday, but he was good company.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Raider texts me today....don't worry Conrad, you'll be proud, I stayed at 50K. Here's how it went:

Raider: "Could u please put another 100 into my account...I have things coming out like my gym membership....I switched my insurance over"

Me: "No. I changed my withholdings on my W4 to single without claiming 2 dependents so my last pay check was short $280...plus it's the 15th very little extra. I will put an extra $150on the 1st to cover groceries for D16 while I'm gone on my trip"

Raider: "No I need more money...I had to buy D22 a birthday gift and the girls' Valentines....I put POSOMs valentine on my CC. So I did not use any of the money you gave me on him. You haven't hardly given me any money the past 2 months. 

When am I taking over the bills?..I switched the car insurance and I need $65 to put down today or my payments will be $103 for the next 5 months"

Me: SILENCE

On a brighter note, Gym Girl comes up again to chit chat, asking if I take any of the group classes. I tell her no, but I have thought about taking spinning. She recommended the Pilates class. I told her I didn't know what that was, and she said it "works on increasing your flexibility....I'm very flexible'. 

I'm not very smart, but I think that was a flirt....so what do I say? "Oh really, I'm not very flexible at all....well, talk to you later" :scratchhead:


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Raider texts me today....don't worry Conrad, you'll be proud, I stayed at 50K. Here's how it went:
> 
> Raider: "Could u please put another 100 into my account...I have things coming out like my gym membership....I switched my insurance over"
> 
> Me: "No. I changed my withholdings on my W4 to single without claiming 2 dependents so my last pay check was short $280...plus it's the 15th very little extra. I will put an extra $150on the 1st to cover groceries for D16 while I'm gone on my trip"
> 
> Raider: "No I need more money...I had to buy D22 a birthday gift and the girls Valentiens....I put POSOMs valentine on my CC. So I did not use any of the money you gave me on him. You haven't hardly given me any money the past 2 months.
> 
> When am I taking over the bills?..I switched the car insurance and I need $65 to put down today or my payments will be $103 for the next 5 months"
> 
> Me: SILENCE
> 
> On a brighter note, Gym Girl comes up again to chit chat, asking if I take any of the group classes. I tell her no, but I have thought about taking spinning. She recommended the Pilates class. I told her I didn't know what that was, and she said it "works on increasing your flexibility....I'm very flexible'.
> 
> I'm not very smart, but I think that was a flirt....so what do I say? "Oh really, I'm not very flexible at all....well, talk to you later" :scratchhead:


She says, "I'm very flexible"

You say, "Second cousin of Gumby?"


----------



## Betrayedone

Pictureless said:


> The D is done. It took about 12 minutes. The D will be final in 120 days.
> 
> Met my safe friends for coffee. Safe friends thinks I will be better off in the long run. Safe friends believe it's a POSOM and that this was planned for a long time. They recommended I go home and cry and be thankful that it's over. I don't think so. She's not worth the tears.
> 
> Iron, I don't think I ever really knew her until the end, when her true nature became unmasked.
> 
> Not a whole lot to say. It's done and over. Life for now is gym, church, and bible study. Going out to dinner tonight with my meet-up group.
> 
> Don't know why, but I feel like a failure.


You are not a failure.....you are enlightened.......and strong......I'm proud of you son.......


----------



## Betrayedone

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: I have at times struggled with the belief in God, so I understand her skepticism as a person with a background in science.
> 
> A co-worker of mine would play Tom Sawyer over...and over...and over. I have an aversion to Getty Lee. I'll read the lyrics.
> 
> She is a hockey fan. She grew up in NY. Hockey never caught on with me...but I do enjoy all sports. I am looking forward to going to a Nats game this summer.
> 
> I'm not averse to going out for a drink or dinner. Friends are never a bad thing to make. I just don't want her to fall too fast for me.......


Dude......you just need to roll with this and not judge, just open up, learn and enjoy.......It would be boring if you agreed on everything. You know you are using the playbook from MMSLP, don't you? Be interesting, interested but a bit distant......She will come after you. Just sayin.'


----------



## Betrayedone

AFPhoenix said:


> Raider texts me today....don't worry Conrad, you'll be proud, I stayed at 50K. Here's how it went:
> 
> Raider: "Could u please put another 100 into my account...I have things coming out like my gym membership....I switched my insurance over"
> 
> Me: "No. I changed my withholdings on my W4 to single without claiming 2 dependents so my last pay check was short $280...plus it's the 15th very little extra. I will put an extra $150on the 1st to cover groceries for D16 while I'm gone on my trip"
> 
> Raider: "No I need more money...I had to buy D22 a birthday gift and the girls' Valentines....I put POSOMs valentine on my CC. So I did not use any of the money you gave me on him. You haven't hardly given me any money the past 2 months.
> 
> When am I taking over the bills?..I switched the car insurance and I need $65 to put down today or my payments will be $103 for the next 5 months"
> 
> Me: SILENCE
> 
> On a brighter note, Gym Girl comes up again to chit chat, asking if I take any of the group classes. I tell her no, but I have thought about taking spinning. She recommended the Pilates class. I told her I didn't know what that was, and she said it "works on increasing your flexibility....I'm very flexible'.
> 
> I'm not very smart, but I think that was a flirt....so what do I say? "Oh really, I'm not very flexible at all....well, talk to you later" :scratchhead:


Hit that up, boy! ARggg! Youth is wasted on the young.........


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> I told her I didn't know what that was, and she said it "works on increasing your flexibility....I'm very flexible'.
> 
> I'm not very smart, but I think that was a flirt....so what do I say? "Oh really, I'm not very flexible at all....well, talk to you later" :scratchhead:


It was a flirt. She wants to show you how flexible she is. Are you going to stretch her out?

Good job with Darth Raider. Hope she redeems empty soda cans.


----------



## Pictureless

Went out tonight with my divorce meet up group. Holy cow there's a world out there. So fun just talking and sharing with interesting people. So enjoyable to make jokes and laugh. A couple new faces tonight too, and one of the ladies was very attractive. It's so validating to hear a stranger comment that I am smart.


----------



## Want2babettrme

"works on your flexibility. I'm very flexible."

Your reply: "Great, I'm feeling pretty stiff myself."


----------



## Chuck71

Raider: "No I need more money...I had to buy D22 a birthday gift and the girls' Valentines....I put POSOMs valentine on my CC. So I did not use any of the money you gave me on him. You haven't hardly given me any money the past 2 months. 

When am I taking over the bills?..I switched the car insurance and I need $65 to put down today or my payments will be $103 for the next 5 months"


DAMN ..... she thinks you're still married..................financially

unfvckingbelieveable


----------



## Fenix

Want2babettrme said:


> "works on your flexibility. I'm very flexible."
> 
> Your reply: "Great, I'm feeling pretty stiff myself."


Perfect!


----------



## LongWalk

Zappy,

Very sorry. Abortion that late is murder. Horrible.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Does the Drama ever stop? I suppose that since I did not respond to Raider's texts yesterday she would bring out the big guns today. I still didn't fall for it. Here's how it went:

D16: Dad, Mom's at the house.

Me: Ok...is she there to visit?

D16: No. She has school tonight and she's doing her laundry. She wants to take me to dinner.

Me: Ok. Its up to you. I'll call her.

----Raider, you are not allowed to do your laundry there unless you are staying with D16 while I am out of town.

Raider: You think everything is on your terms. I hate you and have always hated you. I hope you get hit by a semi truck. I helped pay for this washer and dryer and I could take them if I wanted.

Me: Sorry you feel that way. You signed the Separation Agreement. If you take the washer and dryer, I'll call the police. Good night.

D16 calls: Dad, I'm not going to dinner with Mom. She's acting ridiculous. She said that I have to accept POSOM because they are getting married in June of 2015.

Me: I'm sorry you have to put up with that, but it is your choice on whether you decide to accept him or not.

Raider then goes to furious texting mode: 

It's ok. POSOM just told me he found a house for us to buy and we will be buying a washer and dryer soon....I hope you have somewhere to keep the dogs during spring break because I will not be keeping them to save your ass money.

Sorry don't wish u dead because of the girls

I am not staying here when u are gone....you will have to find someone else to stay with D16.

Me: If you want to continue to alienate D16 that's fine. I have a back-up plan in place.

Raider: Good...I am not alienating D16..she is doing it all on her own....what is ur back up plan?

Me: SILENCE (I'm busy with friends, more to come)

Raider: I just can not stay there. I hate it there because it reminds me of you. It is not home anymore. It feels weird to have to be there. I am never setting foot in that house except to finish getting my things....

Tell me your back up plan

Me: continued silence

Raider: Why don't u want me to know?

Me: I'm busy. I will talk to you later

----------------an hour and a half later----------------------------

Raider: I talked to D16..I will stay with her but I hate u so much. Enjoy your gay support group.

Me: SILENCE


On a lighter note. I met up with Fenix and Morgiana to have a few drinks and play darts. The real PHOENIX won...

Zappy couldn't make it out this time. But it was great to see some of the friends I've made on here in real life. 

The view at 50K isn't very bad.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Kick AZZZZZ!!!


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Does the Drama ever stop? I suppose that since I did not respond to Raider's texts yesterday she would bring out the big guns today. I still didn't fall for it. Here's how it went:
> 
> D16: Dad, Mom's at the house.
> 
> Me: Ok...is she there to visit?
> 
> D16: No. She has school tonight and she's doing her laundry. She wants to take me to dinner.
> 
> Me: Ok. Its up to you. I'll call her.
> 
> ----Raider, you are not allowed to do your laundry there unless you are staying with D16 while I am out of town.
> 
> Raider: You think everything is on your terms. I hate you and have always hated you. I hope you get hit by a semi truck. I helped pay for this washer and dryer and I could take them if I wanted.
> 
> Me: Sorry you feel that way. You signed the Separation Agreement. If you take the washer and dryer, I'll call the police. Good night.
> 
> D16 calls: Dad, I'm not going to dinner with Mom. She's acting ridiculous. She said that I have to accept POSOM because they are getting married in June of 2015.
> 
> Me: I'm sorry you have to put up with that, but it is your choice on whether you decide to accept him or not.
> 
> Raider then goes to furious texting mode:
> 
> It's ok. POSOM just told me he found a house for us to buy and we will be buying a washer and dryer soon....I hope you have somewhere to keep the dogs during spring break because I will not be keeping them to save your ass money.
> 
> Sorry don't wish u dead because of the girls
> 
> I am not staying here when u are gone....you will have to find someone else to stay with D16.
> 
> Me: If you want to continue to alienate D16 that's fine. I have a back-up plan in place.
> 
> Raider: Good...I am not alienating D16..she is doing it all on her own....what is ur back up plan?
> 
> Me: SILENCE (I'm busy with friends, more to come)
> 
> Raider: I just can not stay there. I hate it there because it reminds me of you. It is not home anymore. It feels weird to have to be there. I am never setting foot in that house except to finish getting my things....
> 
> Tell me your back up plan
> 
> Me: continued silence
> 
> Raider: Why don't u want me to know?
> 
> Me: I'm busy. I will talk to you later
> 
> ----------------an hour and a half later----------------------------
> 
> Raider: I talked to D16..I will stay with her but I hate u so much. Enjoy your gay support group.
> 
> Me: SILENCE
> 
> 
> On a lighter note. I met up with Fenix and Morgiana to have a few drinks and play darts. The real PHOENIX won...
> 
> Zappy couldn't make it out this time. But it was great to see some of the friends I've made on here in real life.
> 
> The view at 50K isn't very bad.


This is hilarious.

She cannot stand that you actually have self-respect.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad,

What's funny is that I had self-respect in every aspect of my life except when it came to her. I'm still unraveling that one but I see now how much of a fool I was. The sad thing, I knew it all along, but I swore the more that I tried to fix things, to show her how much I loved her by doing whatever/whenever she wanted, she would be the woman that I longed for. No wonder she didn't respect me. No More Mr. Nice Guy.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> What's funny is that I had self-respect in every aspect of my life except when it came to her. I'm still unraveling that one but I see now how much of a fool I was. The sad thing, I knew it all along, but I swore the more that I tried to fix things, to show her how much I loved her by doing whatever/whenever she wanted, she would be the woman that I longed for. No wonder she didn't respect me. No More Mr. Nice Guy.


Fixing them so they can fix you never works.

I'm a veteran of that war.

It's completely false logic.

Yet, we have to awaken to see that's what we were actually doing.

How nonsensical.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Does the Drama ever stop? I suppose that since I did not respond to Raider's texts yesterday she would bring out the big guns today. I still didn't fall for it. Here's how it went:
> 
> D16: Dad, Mom's at the house.
> 
> Me: Ok...is she there to visit?
> 
> D16: No. She has school tonight and she's doing her laundry. She wants to take me to dinner.
> 
> Me: Ok. Its up to you. I'll call her.
> 
> ----Raider, you are not allowed to do your laundry there unless you are staying with D16 while I am out of town.
> 
> Raider: You think everything is on your terms. I hate you and have always hated you. I hope you get hit by a semi truck. I helped pay for this washer and dryer and I could take them if I wanted.
> 
> Me: Sorry you feel that way. You signed the Separation Agreement. If you take the washer and dryer, I'll call the police. Good night.
> 
> D16 calls: Dad, I'm not going to dinner with Mom. She's acting ridiculous. She said that I have to accept POSOM because they are getting married in June of 2015.
> 
> Me: I'm sorry you have to put up with that, but it is your choice on whether you decide to accept him or not.
> 
> Raider then goes to furious texting mode:
> 
> It's ok. POSOM just told me he found a house for us to buy and we will be buying a washer and dryer soon....I hope you have somewhere to keep the dogs during spring break because I will not be keeping them to save your ass money.
> 
> Sorry don't wish u dead because of the girls
> 
> I am not staying here when u are gone....you will have to find someone else to stay with D16.
> 
> Me: If you want to continue to alienate D16 that's fine. I have a back-up plan in place.
> 
> Raider: Good...I am not alienating D16..she is doing it all on her own....what is ur back up plan?
> 
> Me: SILENCE (I'm busy with friends, more to come)
> 
> Raider: I just can not stay there. I hate it there because it reminds me of you. It is not home anymore. It feels weird to have to be there. I am never setting foot in that house except to finish getting my things....
> 
> Tell me your back up plan
> 
> Me: continued silence
> 
> Raider: Why don't u want me to know?
> 
> Me: I'm busy. I will talk to you later
> 
> ----------------an hour and a half later----------------------------
> 
> Raider: I talked to D16..I will stay with her but I hate u so much. Enjoy your gay support group.
> 
> Me: SILENCE
> 
> 
> On a lighter note. I met up with Fenix and Morgiana to have a few drinks and play darts. The real PHOENIX won...
> 
> Zappy couldn't make it out this time. But it was great to see some of the friends I've made on here in real life.
> 
> The view at 50K isn't very bad.


what you hear are sounds of a child

not getting what they want

they HATE being treated like a child

not once would she think, what if I stopped being a child


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> On a lighter note. I met up with Fenix and Morgiana to have a few drinks and play darts. The real PHOENIX won...
> 
> Zappy couldn't make it out this time. But it was great to see some of the friends I've made on here in real life.
> 
> The view at 50K isn't very bad.


That's right....rub it in! 

I am actually considering practicing before the next darts encounter!


----------



## Pictureless

You guys should take a few photos and post here. Have fun!


----------



## Fenix

Pictureless said:


> You guys should take a few photos and post here. Have fun!



*snort* I tried to talk AFP into taking a photo of his ''gay'' support group and sending it to Raider. No go. He was too 50,000 feet.


----------



## Pictureless

Fenix said:


> *snort* I tried to talk AFP into taking a photo of his ''gay'' support group and sending it to Raider. No go. He was too 50,000 feet.


:lol: maybe he'll come out of the closet.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I had to drop down to, I'd say 40K briefly today:

Me: In reference to you asking why you have to re-finance the car under your name only, not only is it spelled out in the Separation Agreement that you recently signed, it removes my responsibility.

In reference to when the car payment is due, it is due on the 15th of every month just as it has the past 3 years.

In reference to when will the $1300 will be placed in your account, I suggest you read the Separation Agreement thoroughly. As required, I will deposit the spousal support by the 05 of every month. Keeping with the Separation Agreement you signed, it states that you will have custody of D16 at "Husband's residence". BACK TO 50K

Raider: "Yeah, that is something I should had written differently. I just meant I would not make D16 come to POSOM's house. But I should have the right not to stay at your house. You made it clear I am not welcomed there. I do not want to be there...it is torture. I hate being there.

But I love D16 so much that I will sacrifice for her. I was thinking about renting a hotel room for the week and you can put the dogs in a kennel. I hate how much you have manipulated the girls, but one day they will see you for the snake in the grass you really are.

Your sorry a$$ mother really did ruin D22. I hope she burns in hell for what she did to our little girl".

Me: SILENCE

D16 and I are going to take the Metro to China Town, eat Chinese food, and then go to the Kings of Leon concert. 

I was tempted to respond, but she's again trying to push my buttons. When I did not respond to her, Raider texted D22. D22 told her mother that POSOM is not welcomed to her college graduation in Dec. Raider told her that if he's not welcome, she will not attend. WOW!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Own it and ride it like stole it. I think you have tamed your own lightning. Enjoy.


----------



## AFPhoenix

LBH: I know I'm not where I need to be. But I'm getting closer. I'm trying to remove any triggers, and have reached out to safe friends as well when I feel angry. Again, it helps to vent here. I'm going to be ok but it's going to take a while.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hey man, I'm serious. What you did felt great for you.

It doesn't fill the void or crack we have without them. 

But... That crack and void IS getting smaller.

It's not about being mean. It's about being the adult.


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right LBH. I'm ashamed on how I reacted when this first happened last Oct. I'm not that man anymore.


----------



## Pictureless

LBH and AFP you guys are rocking! Great posts!!!! 

I get pumped reading your chit! Class of 2014 is coming along good.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I had to drop down to, I'd say 40K briefly today:
> 
> Me: In reference to you asking why you have to re-finance the car under your name only, not only is it spelled out in the Separation Agreement that you recently signed, it removes my responsibility.
> 
> In reference to when the car payment is due, it is due on the 15th of every month just as it has the past 3 years.
> 
> In reference to when will the $1300 will be placed in your account, I suggest you read the Separation Agreement thoroughly. As required, I will deposit the spousal support by the 05 of every month. Keeping with the Separation Agreement you signed, it states that you will have custody of D16 at "Husband's residence". BACK TO 50K
> 
> Raider: "Yeah, that is something I should had written differently. I just meant I would not make D16 come to POSOM's house. But I should have the right not to stay at your house. You made it clear I am not welcomed there. I do not want to be there...it is torture. I hate being there.
> 
> But I love D16 so much that I will sacrifice for her. I was thinking about renting a hotel room for the week and you can put the dogs in a kennel. I hate how much you have manipulated the girls, but one day they will see you for the snake in the grass you really are.
> 
> Your sorry a$$ mother really did ruin D22. I hope she burns in hell for what she did to our little girl".
> 
> Me: SILENCE
> 
> D16 and I are going to take the Metro to China Town, eat Chinese food, and then go to the Kings of Leon concert.
> 
> I was tempted to respond, but she's again trying to push my buttons. When I did not respond to her, Raider texted D22. D22 told her mother that POSOM is not welcomed to her college graduation in Dec. Raider told her that if he's not welcome, she will not attend. WOW!


Still talking way too much. I'll edit in the next post.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I had to drop down to, I'd say 40K briefly today:
> 
> Me: In reference to you asking why you have to re-finance the car under your name only, not only is it spelled out in the Separation Agreement that you recently signed, it removes my responsibility.
> 
> In reference to when the car payment is due, it is due on the 15th of every month just as it has the past 3 years.
> 
> In reference to when will the $1300 will be placed in your account, I suggest you read the Separation Agreement thoroughly. As required, I will deposit the spousal support by the 05 of every month. Keeping with the Separation Agreement you signed, it states that you will have custody of D16 at "Husband's residence". BACK TO 50K
> 
> *The signed separation agreement speaks to your responsibility associated with the car financing and payment. It also instructs me on spousal support deadlines.*
> 
> Raider: "Yeah, that is something I should had written differently. I just meant I would not make D16 come to POSOM's house. But I should have the right not to stay at your house. You made it clear I am not welcomed there. I do not want to be there...it is torture. I hate being there.
> 
> But I love D16 so much that I will sacrifice for her. I was thinking about renting a hotel room for the week and you can put the dogs in a kennel. I hate how much you have manipulated the girls, but one day they will see you for the snake in the grass you really are.
> 
> *I'm sorry you feel that way"*
> 
> 
> Your sorry a$$ mother really did ruin D22. I hope she burns in hell for what she did to our little girl".
> 
> Me: SILENCE *perfect response*
> 
> D16 and I are going to take the Metro to China Town, eat Chinese food, and then go to the Kings of Leon concert.
> 
> I was tempted to respond, but she's again trying to push my buttons. When I did not respond to her, Raider texted D22. D22 told her mother that POSOM is not welcomed to her college graduation in Dec. Raider told her that if he's not welcome, she will not attend. WOW!


See above. 4 sentences would take care of it.

DO NOT EXPLAIN. Raider Baiter is capable of reading.


----------



## Chuck71

Conrad's right..... dumbing it down for her is not correct way

let her figure it out

she obviously figured everything else

be wary of her seeing D16 at your home

she may throw out her snatch line into the water


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad: You're right, I'm working my way there...baby steps.

Chuck: I'm in a no win situation. My job requires me to travel, where I'm gone on average 100 days a year. D16 will not stay at POSOM's where Raider lives (because she has never once in her life been independent). Since we do not have family here, and for a somewhat stable environment for D16, Raider must stay at my house with D16 while I'm gone. If POSOM sets foot on the property, D16 will call the police and Raider knows it. 

D16 turns 17 in Aug. I'm not sure what the laws are for children staying by themselves. I'm looking into it.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: You're right, I'm working my way there...baby steps.
> 
> Chuck: I'm in a no win situation. My job requires me to travel, where I'm gone on average 100 days a year. D16 will not stay at POSOM's where Raider lives (because she has never once in her life been independent). Since we do not have family here, and for a somewhat stable environment for D16, Raider must stay at my house with D16 while I'm gone. If POSOM sets foot on the property, D16 will call the police and Raider knows it.
> 
> D16 turns 17 in Aug. I'm not sure what the laws are for children staying by themselves. I'm looking into it.


It's likely they're simply minor children under 18.

If you leave them alone, it can create problems.

You're a pilot, right? I know betrayedone is a pilot.

Kind of difficult not to travel as a pilot.


----------



## Chuck71

damn that's a tough ringer

travel jobs are for the young and single

but you have to do what you have to

you may want to set up cameras in the house

the adventure and excitement of posom coming over

when D16 is asleep or at school will be too much

Raider Baiter will sneak him over, just like she did

guys at her parent's house in high school


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad: No, i'm not a pilot

Daily Dose of Drama:

Apprently there will be a wedding in June of 2015...Raider is not even divorced yet, but is planning a wedding. D22 was not too happy about it. Raider called D22 telling her that she was going to take a bottle of pills and drink a bottle of wine. 

I found out from Raider's sister that POSOM intervened between D22 and Raider. POSOM had the audacity to reprimand D22 for "disrespecting her mother". Needless to say....I AM LIVID. However, staying at 50K even though it's killing me.

D16 is with Raider right now. I hope Raider is not putting too much pressure on D16. I'm worried.


----------



## LBHmidwest

Oh man....... One thing when they blow up but there's always a radius.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: No, i'm not a pilot
> 
> Daily Dose of Drama:
> 
> Apprently there will be a wedding in June of 2015...Raider is not even divorced yet, but is planning a wedding. D22 was not too happy about it. Raider called D22 telling her that she was going to take a bottle of pills and drink a bottle of wine.
> 
> I found out from Raider's sister that POSOM intervened between D22 and Raider. POSOM had the audacity to reprimand D22 for "disrespecting her mother". Needless to say....I AM LIVID. However, staying at 50K even though it's killing me.
> 
> D16 is with Raider right now. I hope Raider is not putting too much pressure on D16. I'm worried.


Dude, don't sweat it. POSOM has Raider so snowed she thinks there's going to be a wedding. Go ahead, laugh...it's too funny.

Man, this guy will say anything to get the piss flaps. IDK what's worse, him having to stoop so low to get some or Raider for believing it.

Of course by then you will not care even if it does happen, right!


----------



## AFPhoenix

I hope so. But right now, I want to pound his flipping face in. I hate feeling this way.


----------



## LongWalk

> Raider called D22 telling her that she was going to take a bottle of pills and drink a bottle of wine.


A suicide threat? Won't being dead ruin the wedding:scratchhead:

Conrad is right on with the laconic replies. What is implied must sprout in her noggin like grain and water. 

Affair partners have very poor chances of winning affection from children at this age. To be associated with the destruction of their family eliminates them as potential friends. The exception would be if they are really mature, patient and wise. The chances of that are not great.

If you meet someone nice in 6 months time, they may readily accept that person. You would not try and pull off an intro until your were really sure of the relationship. How certain is your WW that POSOM is real?


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## AFPhoenix

LW, 

My WW, better known as Raider, has no one to turn to. Raider's family have turned their backs on her. Raider told the last sibling that was talking to her that she was cutting her out of her life too and hung up on her. I don't know if you have read through my thread, but you'll see how fast this progressed. I don't know if she really believes everything or not. I think she has painted herself in a corner and has too much pride to admit she's wrong....or she is officially crazy.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> I think she has painted herself in a corner and has too much pride to admit she's wrong....or she is officially crazy.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Or both. The only way to dull the pain is self-medicating with sex....and it just makes her feel worse.


----------



## LBHmidwest

I'd like some of that medicine


----------



## Chuck71

POSOM brought up the M idea since his hold on her 

was beginning to wane. POSOM has no reason to scold

your D22 or D16. Be careful....you may end up in jail if you

confront him. He isn't worth it. Plus custody would be affected.

Tell D16 and D22 it is their right to or to not continue relationship

with their mother. When POSOM steps in, tell them to hang up the phone

immediately. If D16 is put in situation with POSOM, call you first,

then call the police. Cool, firm, dispassionate. Set boundaries.

When they are crossed, there are repercussions


----------



## LBHmidwest

Chuck71 said:


> POSOM brought up the M idea since his hold on her
> 
> was beginning to wane. POSOM has no reason to scold
> 
> your D22 or D16. Be careful....you may end up in jail if you
> 
> confront him. He isn't worth it. Plus custody would be affected.
> 
> Tell D16 and D22 it is their right to or to not continue relationship
> 
> with their mother. When POSOM steps in, tell them to hang up the phone
> 
> immediately. If D16 is put in situation with POSOM, call you first,
> 
> then call the police. Cool, firm, dispassionate. Set boundaries.
> 
> When they are crossed, there are repercussions


What he said.


----------



## Conrad

AFP,

Any chance you can get a non-traveling job?

I realize the economy sucks.

Of course, you'd never hear that on the news.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks guys....I know it will do more harm than the instant gratification of whipping his @$$. In reality, I'm not as sad as I was last month and definitely not the same man I was in Oct. I'm moving on, or in the process of doing so. I'm working on me and D16. I just don't want my girls to get sucked in the Black Hole from POSOM and Raider. I know they are going to fail....and I don't care!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks guys....I know it will do more harm than the instant gratification of whipping his @$$. In reality, I'm not as sad as I was last month and definitely not the same man I was in Oct. I'm moving on, or in the process of doing so. I'm working on me and D16. I just don't want my girls to get sucked in the Black Hole from POSOM and Raider. I know they are going to fail....and I don't care!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Not "that" much anyway.


----------



## AFPhoenix

True Conrad....I was worried about her with her cry for help attempt. The old me would have called. I'm beginning to like the awakening me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

It was a cry for attention, bet the farm

she was used to being the center of your Universe 

and wants to maintain that control

her wants and needs are more important than her daughters

you are lucky this did not happen ten years ago

they are old enough to process their own thoughts

RBs actions are like...... a 16 y/o

reason why we say treat her as such

look into a monitoring system, set it up

don't even tell your D16

monitor it, see her with POSOM, call the police

they'd never expect it with you 600 miles away

hate to rain on what just mentioned but..... whose name is house in?

whose name on deed? what did Sep. Agreement say about RB being there?

and..........can she or can not she have guests over?

These are the same questions the police would ask


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: I'm actually renting which makes it great. The landlord knows the situation and POSOM's name (Jack Croft) is added to the lease as not being allowed on the property and it is stipulated in the Separation Agreement that Raider can not have any guests on the property without my written consent.

My lawyer is very good.

No DRAMA update today but....I went out on a 4 min dating Meetup.com group. I have a date with a lawyer when I get back from my trip. 

Today was a good day.


----------



## LongWalk

Put him on Cheaterville


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: I'm actually renting which makes it great. The landlord knows the situation and POSOM's name (Jack Croft) is added to the lease as not being allowed on the property and it is stipulated in the Separation Agreement that Raider can not have any guests on the property without my written consent.
> 
> My lawyer is very good.
> 
> No DRAMA update today but....I went out on a 4 min dating Meetup.com group. I have a date with a lawyer when I get back from my trip.
> 
> Today was a good day.


Speed dating! Good for you!

I think dating is a good thing. It helps remind us that we are healthy, desirable people with a bright future in front of us. It helps take the focus of our current and puts it on our potential.


----------



## AFPhoenix

No Drama updates but I did have a bad day at work and as I was driving home, I was saddened by the fact that I once would tell her my problems and now she's not there. At the same time, I remembered how sometimes she would seem dis-interested in what I was saying. 

So, I don't miss her, I miss the idea of having that special person in my life. I'm so looking forward to this divorce because there are so many women out there just waiting to be loved and want to return love. Needle in a haystack?


----------



## Chuck71

look at it this way, you are ridding yourself of a major problem

but I know exactly what you mean 

my X and I had this non-verbal language

a nod, a look, you knew exactly what other was thinking

I miss that, my g/f and I do not have that

but it's not something you pick up overnight


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> No Drama updates but I did have a bad day at work and as I was driving home, I was saddened by the fact that I once would tell her my problems and now she's not there. At the same time, I remembered how sometimes she would seem dis-interested in what I was saying.
> 
> So, I don't miss her, I miss the idea of having that special person in my life. I'm so looking forward to this divorce because there are so many women out there just waiting to be loved and want to return love. Needle in a haystack?


It is missing the teamwork that you used to have in the good times. I am sure my stbx misses that as I was his major sounding board. Just another thing he lost.

As far as the needle in the haystack, nah!  Plus, hunting for those needles can be an awful lot of fun.


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right Fenix, looking may be fun...i'm just going to be careful about not getting stuck with those needles.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> You're right Fenix, looking may be fun...i'm just going to be careful about not getting stuck with those needles.


Hang in there AFP.

We all feel this way sometimes. It's taken me several weeks to remember my life before Scrooge. I was happy and looking for a good woman to love and marry. That's where I am now. I didn't lose out on anything, I was just sidetracked by an impostor disguised as my perfect mate. 

I realized one morning almost all of my problems went away when Scrooge left. I bet you'll discover that about Raider.


----------



## Pictureless

AFP,

How are you doing? Any good news?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hi all....no new drama to report, but my transformation is still evolving.

A few of us were at a bar last week, and three young ladies were sitting next to me. One of them, a gorgeous brunette probably no more than 24 years old, and I had a great conversation that somehow turned to Brazillian waxing...I felt somewhat uncomfortable, and we soon left to go to dinner. At the hotel bar, another lady and I were chatting and I brought up the conversation, and she told me that the woman was indeed flirting heavily with me...and then she proceeded to tell me about her grooming habits. I didn't take the opportunity that she was providing me, but I almost did. She was an attractive lady, but a little on the heay side, but not fat....I just didn't feel anything...untill the next day then I was kicking myself for being too nice of a guy.

Today, Raider texts me a long text saying she thought I was going to be home on the 8th instead of the 9th and she did not appreciate the fact that I didn't make it clear what my travel plans were. She said she had made plans for Saturday night. My reply, "I'm coming home on the 9th". 

I'm still in the on fire phase, but the flames are subsiding somewhat.


----------



## Chuck71

her conflicting plans are not your problem


----------



## Fenix

Glad to hear you have had a somewhat peaceful week. Sometimes, getting out of town (even for work) is the perfect ticket. As far as being the 'nice guy', meh. You weren't feeling anything. Wait until you feel it, then go for it. 

But yeah, the flirting etc is really nice for the ego, isn't it?


----------



## Rottdad42

Well I read it all, that sir is my definition of hell. It's very hard to go through this and to have kids that are old enough, to know what is happening. I feel your pain, way deep. My story is similar in weight yet different in size. To hear those words about yourself in the bedroom, right to the jugular with that one. Don't listen to that crap, it's justification for what she is doing. Your morals run deep as well as you being a good father. There is a bright world for you, just have to get through the storm. BTW, I'm a die hard Raider fan have been since the days of Jim Plunkett. I have never, ever heard of Jack Croft. Regardless if he was a back up, to the back, on the training squad. You would be apart of the players union, he is a player, just not on an NFL team. Good luck brother, it gets better in time.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix: it was nice being away but it was far from peaceful! When is our next DMV TAM meet-up?

Rottdad: thanks for the kind words. I know Croft is a liar but Raider is too stupid to see it. It's hard on the psyche and ego to be cast aside so easily.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFPhoenix

Raider will not be too happy....i'm delayed again. I woke myself up sobbing due to a dream about the impending divorce. Even though I knew it would hurt, I looked at Jack Croft's Facebook page again.....and wished I didn't. I don't understand how a person could cast someone they supposedly they loved away so easily. I wish I knew what magic pill to take. Sometimes I think I'm going to be fine, and then days like today I wonder if I ever will.


----------



## Chuck71

if you are not 100% sure you can deal with what you see

do not look at FB.....that's like asking to be stabbed in the eyes

I still look at pics of me and X, back when she was the person 

I married. I don't look at any made after 2007

I don't know that person


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> I don't understand how a person could cast someone they supposedly they loved away so easily. I wish I knew what magic pill to take.


Take the red pill. Do some reading my friend.

Living in La-La-Land
NO MA'AM: Bonecrker #47 - Living in La-La-Land

Men Harmed by Relationships More than Women
NO MA'AM: Men Harmed by Relationships More than Women

Woman: The Most Responsible Teenager In The House
NO MA'AM: Woman: The Most Responsible Teenager In The House

Empty Vessels and Relative Truth
NO MA'AM: Empty Vessels and Relative Truth


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I don't understand how a person could cast someone they supposedly they loved away so easily.


AFP,

You've determined that she's disordered, correct?

Tough childhood and the like.....

You realize that disordered people often get stuck at the emotional age where the emotional trauma first happened.

So, you are now pondering why an emotional 5 year old would behave in a self-absorbed hateful manner?

Have you dealt with many 5 year olds in your life?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad, 

Besides my two daughters and Raider, I have dealt with my nieces and nephews.

I'm back from my trip to find that Raider took the majority of our house decorations....she had asked to keep a Paris painting but I was surprised about the others. But I don't care, because it's just one other way to move on. 

This was our latest text conversation, which i'm proud of myself despite the setback from the dream.

Raider: How is the viagra working for you?

Me: ?

Raider: I noticed the bottle was gone from your drawer. I was just curious.

Me: I suppose it's working just fine.

Raider: It never did work for u

Me: Things change

Raider: Yeah right, lol. Your problem will never change

Me: That's what you think

Raider: So you can last more than 10 minutes now? Why don't you tell the girls you are sleeping with someone

Me: Because it wouldn't be the truth

Raider: I don't care I am happy you are moving on...less I have to deal with u....oh yeah, me and POSOM are engaged

Me: Congratulations

Raider: I figured you knew already but I thought I would tell you.

Me: Yeah, I knew.

Raider: We are getting married July 4th 2015

Me: Independence Day

Raider: Yep. Believe it or not...I do want you to find someone and be very happy.

Me: Thanks...I will, but it's going to take me time.



It's hard not to get pulled back down into the drama. She has a way of doing that...but I didn't give her the satisfaction. And so goes my journey.


----------



## Fenix

What a piece of work. *shaking head* She does not sound disengaged at all.

And 2015? Please. Who wants odds on that marriage happening?

AFP, that convo didn't need to happen. It wasn't about $$ or your daughters. I would suggest either not responding or cutting it off very quickly.


----------



## Pictureless

AFP,

Too much talking. You are setting yourself up for failure with Raider.

Don't let her angry words mess with your mind. REAL women make your d!ck hard, not your life.

Why was she looking for your viagra, does POSOM need it too? Man, does she kill erections.

Tell her nothing and do not engage in any conversations not related to parenting or divorce. 

There's nothing wrong with you. It's normal for men as we age. Keep hitting the gym. Cardio! Watch your diet and eat foods good for men's health such as almonds, blueberries, and green leafy vegetables. Quit smoking. If you can't quit reduce the amount of cigarettes. Take a multi vitamin everyday. Drink lots of water and cranberry juice. Blackberries. Lose weight. 

And when it's party time take the viagra on an empty stomach 20 minutes before you go on stage. And have the kind of sex that pleases YOU. Don't think, just do it. 

F Raider!


----------



## helolover

Pictureless said:


> AFP,....F Raider!


Wise comment. 

Raider is disordered. She appears to like putting her emotional hooks into you. You are engaging with her way too much. Your sex life is not her business - at all. 

Shut the door in her face, AFP. She's with a phony chump now. She's made her bed - now let her lie in it. 

As long as you're engaging with her on non-parenting stuff, she's got you.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix: the conversation first started with working on the timeline that I would be returnnig because of all the changes. You're right, Raider is a piece of work.

Pictureless: I never have smoked and I am nearing the best shape i've been in for a number of years. The funny thing, i don't need viagara. I got it 2 years ago when we were having problems, now I know it was all psychological. Raider is a beautiful woman on the outside, but she's a very ugly person on the inside.

Helo: You're absolutely right. I should have just ignored anything that does not involve D16. I have to leave again on Sunday so I had to arrange for her to watch D16 again. I just wonder how much more stuff will disappear. I need to tell her not to remove anything else without disussing it with me.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Besides my two daughters and Raider, I have dealt with my nieces and nephews.
> 
> I'm back from my trip to find that Raider took the majority of our house decorations....she had asked to keep a Paris painting but I was surprised about the others. But I don't care, because it's just one other way to move on.
> 
> This was our latest text conversation, which i'm proud of myself despite the setback from the dream.
> 
> Raider: How is the viagra working for you?
> 
> Me: ?
> 
> Raider: I noticed the bottle was gone from your drawer. I was just curious.
> 
> Me: I suppose it's working just fine.
> 
> Raider: It never did work for u
> 
> Me: Things change
> 
> Raider: Yeah right, lol. Your problem will never change
> 
> Me: That's what you think
> 
> Raider: So you can last more than 10 minutes now? Why don't you tell the girls you are sleeping with someone
> 
> Me: Because it wouldn't be the truth
> 
> Raider: I don't care I am happy you are moving on...less I have to deal with u....oh yeah, me and POSOM are engaged
> 
> Me: Congratulations
> 
> Raider: I figured you knew already but I thought I would tell you.
> 
> Me: Yeah, I knew.
> 
> Raider: We are getting married July 4th 2015
> 
> Me: Independence Day
> 
> Raider: Yep. Believe it or not...I do want you to find someone and be very happy.
> 
> Me: Thanks...I will, but it's going to take me time.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard not to get pulled back down into the drama. She has a way of doing that...but I didn't give her the satisfaction. And so goes my journey.


"I don't like where this conversation is headed"

C'mon AFP... man up.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18347-fitness-tests.html


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad, thanks for the advice. I know i failed those fitness tests in the past and continue to slip. But i'm getting better at it.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad, thanks for the advice. I know i failed those fitness tests in the past and continue to slip. But i'm getting better at it.


ANY personal issue she wishes to discuss with you is - currently - a trap.

Re-think exposing the affair.

She doesn't respect you at all. That dialogue was ball-busting aimed at your manhood.

Stand up to the b!tch.


----------



## AFPhoenix

What's the best way to stand-up to her? The affair is exposed, has been for a while. I need to stop snooping. 

What i'd like to do is beat POSOM to a bloody pulp. 

There is no way that an R will happen with Raider. I think it bothers her that I don't react to her and I know that she knows I've been going out. It bothers her that everyone, from her best friend to her family has essentially turned their backs on her. The relationship that Raider has with D22 sadly will never be the same. POSOM responded to D22's "lack or respect" to her mother a month or so ago and that almost sent me over the edge. I know that they're not worth losing what i've worked for, but it's tempting.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> What's the best way to stand-up to her? The affair is exposed, has been for a while. I need to stop snooping.
> 
> What i'd like to do is beat POSOM to a bloody pulp.
> 
> There is no way that an R will happen with Raider. I think it bothers her that I don't react to her and I know that she knows I've been going out. It bothers her that everyone, from her best friend to her family has essentially turned their backs on her. The relationship that Raider has with D22 sadly will never be the same. POSOM responded to D22's "lack or respect" to her mother a month or so ago and that almost sent me over the edge. I know that they're not worth losing what i've worked for, but it's tempting.


AFP,

You just DID react to her.

The Viagra comment was abusive.

No man should stand for that garbage.

The conversation should have ended immediately - with the line I used, a hang up, anything.

You want posOM?

Dig into his life and expose his activities with Raider to everyone associated with him.

Raider's reaction to that will be typical - and absolutely hilarious.

But, she'll quit screwing with you once you show your mettle.


----------



## tom67

Conrad said:


> ANY personal issue she wishes to discuss with you is - currently - a trap.
> 
> Re-think exposing the affair.
> 
> She doesn't respect you at all. That dialogue was ball-busting aimed at your manhood.
> 
> Stand up to the b!tch.


Next time a hot 24 year old talks with you take a picture with her and put it on your facebook page.
I saw Jack's fb when two people have to express how happy they are constantly, they really are not.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Tom, I considered sending his family and friends messages about the details of the affair on FB but it would only cause further drama and right now, i don't need or want to dive back down. If POSOM were to call me again, I don't think i could restrain myself from confronting him face to face.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Tom, I considered sending his family and friends messages about the details of the affair on FB but it would only cause further drama and right now, i don't need or want to dive back down. If POSOM were to call me again, I don't think i could restrain myself from confronting him face to face.


Your instincts are counterproductive.

"Not causing drama" is a green light for Raider to abuse you.

I wish you could see this.

I only have her current behavior as evidence.


----------



## LongWalk

Her discussion about the viagra is really a discussion her twisted logic. She wants you to fight for her to boost her ego. In the primal state you would hit POSOM in the head with a rock and have an angry ape erection for Raider. If you are not able to do this because you are old and weak or afraid of what the tribe will say, she wants to rub in the humilation to reinforce her belief that she made the right choice.

Raider operates at the most liminal level. She is very animal and b!tich manipulative. When ReGroup's crazy WW lashed out at him in an email she called him a fäggot azz notch (nozzle) plus more. The father of her child was not gay, she knew that but wanted to provoke him into "fighting" for her.

ReGroup eventually mastered the art of being alpha in his communication with her. In divorce court she was all smiles and clearly wanted him to take her out to a farewell dinner to be followed by a good banging so that she could gain a heightened sense of drama.

For some men hot sex is worth risking life, family, etc. For some women mad drama (including sex) is worth same risk.

It takes character and principle not to be a cheater and abuser.

Carlton's exWW is very similar to yours. She used to go through his overnight bag to look for condoms. She was jealous and wanted him back but at the same time was unremorseful and proud.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Besides my two daughters and Raider, I have dealt with my nieces and nephews.
> 
> I'm back from my trip to find that Raider took the majority of our house decorations....she had asked to keep a Paris painting but I was surprised about the others. But I don't care, because it's just one other way to move on.
> 
> This was our latest text conversation, which i'm proud of myself despite the setback from the dream.
> 
> Raider: How is the viagra working for you?
> 
> Me: ?
> 
> Raider: I noticed the bottle was gone from your drawer. I was just curious.
> 
> Me: I suppose it's working just fine.
> 
> Raider: It never did work for u
> 
> Me: Things change
> 
> Raider: Yeah right, lol. Your problem will never change
> 
> Me: That's what you think
> 
> Raider: So you can last more than 10 minutes now? Why don't you tell the girls you are sleeping with someone
> 
> Me: Because it wouldn't be the truth
> 
> Raider: I don't care I am happy you are moving on...less I have to deal with u....oh yeah, me and POSOM are engaged
> 
> Me: Congratulations
> 
> Raider: I figured you knew already but I thought I would tell you.
> 
> Me: Yeah, I knew.
> 
> Raider: We are getting married July 4th 2015
> 
> Me: Independence Day
> 
> Raider: Yep. Believe it or not...I do want you to find someone and be very happy.
> 
> Me: Thanks...I will, but it's going to take me time.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard not to get pulled back down into the drama. She has a way of doing that...but I didn't give her the satisfaction. And so goes my journey.


"I don't need it when I am connected to a woman who turns me on"

ignore.....high school bullchit....selfish....no regard


----------



## Fenix

I agree with the Viagra comment being ball-busting and abusive. It says a lot more about her than you. Just saying "I find I don't need it...now" would get the point across.

If you even wanted to go there.

But to stand up to her: Maintain distance. Do not engage. She is going to try to draw you in, over and over and over again. Hold your ground. You are a stone wall to her. The only discussion should be about your youngest daughter and the divorce proceedings. She will probably go all Tasmanian Devil on you, but let her burn herself out.

are you still in IC?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks for the advice Fenix. Yes, i'm still in IC. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?....i hope so.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks for the advice Fenix. Yes, i'm still in IC. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger?....i hope so.


Nah! She couldn't kill you because SHE is weaker and you are stronger!

Live well. Be happy. F Raider!


----------



## AFPhoenix

F Raider...indeed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> F Raider...indeed
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Talk to us.

What's going on?


----------



## Fenix

AFP, it gets easier. It really does.

I am glad that you are still in IC. That should help in disengaging.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Fenix! It comes and goes. I had my implosion day last night going through all the cards that she had given me the past 22 years....I kept every one of them. I ceremoniously ripped each of them up and threw them away.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Fenix! It comes and goes. I had my implosion day last night going through all the cards that she had given me the past 22 years....I kept every one of them. I ceremoniously ripped each of them up and threw them away.


I understand the ritual.

Not sure why you choose to torture yourself.

Expose them.


----------



## just got it 55

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Fenix! It comes and goes. I had my implosion day last night going through all the cards that she had given me the past 22 years....I kept every one of them. I ceremoniously ripped each of them up and threw them away.[/QUOTE
> 
> 1 Large bonfire and then pi$$ on them to put it out would have felt much better.
> 
> 55


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad: It's a chapter out of the book Letting Go. It hurt last night but I think it's part of the healing process, debriding the wound. They have been exposed to anyone, everyone that matters. He's a single POS. I know it will come crashing in on them, and I'm owning up to my faults and getting stronger. 

I have Tiger Blood 

55: That may have been better....I just may get them out of the trash to do that.


----------



## just got it 55

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: It's a chapter out of the book Letting Go. It hurt last night but I think it's part of the healing process, debriding the wound. They have been exposed to anyone, everyone that matters. He's a single POS. I know it will come crashing in on them, and I'm owning up to my faults and getting stronger.
> 
> I have Tiger Blood
> 
> 55: That may have been better....I just may get them out of the trash to do that.


If it's theropy it's well worth the effort

Not to mention the fun

55


----------



## LBHmidwest

Keep going man


----------



## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: It's a chapter out of the book Letting Go. It hurt last night but I think it's part of the healing process, debriding the wound. They have been exposed to anyone, everyone that matters. He's a single POS. I know it will come crashing in on them, and I'm owning up to my faults and getting stronger.
> 
> I have Tiger Blood
> 
> 55: That may have been better....I just may get them out of the trash to do that.


I'm 3 plus years out.
You will get through this through some ic and good family and friends.
Hey it's called life, I think.


----------



## Pictureless

The other day I was looking for something in a desk drawer and I found a photo of Scrooge. It went immediately into the shredder. 

Out of sight out of mind isn't an immediate fix but it helps. Stop chasing a dream. 

And believe me it does get better. I'm almost at the point where I've honestly forgiven Scrooge and myself. Hope it works out for her because even alone I am better off now.

F Raider the Traitor!


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: It's a chapter out of the book Letting Go. It hurt last night but I think it's part of the healing process, debriding the wound. They have been exposed to anyone, everyone that matters. He's a single POS. I know it will come crashing in on them, and I'm owning up to my faults and getting stronger.
> 
> I have Tiger Blood
> 
> 55: That may have been better....I just may get them out of the trash to do that.


you could be remembering those times when she was wonderful

you keep thinking, there is no fvcking way this can be the 

same woman. I will always love who my X was when we met

but that person died a long time ago. I went from 25 to 40

with her, from closing bars at 3AM, raising he!! to a masters, 

hopefully a doctorate (if I'm a pretty enough wh0re for the

powers that be) and an author. We all change...22 years for you

no way around change....but sometimes things change but

remain the same. Just think of it as a witch who deceived 

you into marriage.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Chuck.

Raider texted me last night: I would like a printout of when my financial aid was deposited and what was spent after that please. Are you coming back on Wed?

Me: Silence

I have a date tonight with someone I met on Match. There is a lot of quantity but sadly not a lot of quality that I have found on there. I do enjoy getting e-mails saying "your profile is written very well!". I do not lament my situation on Match but describe who I am and what I'm looking for. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFPhoenix

Tonight was one of the best nights I've had in a long time. We went wine tasting, then dinner on the river. I had actually met her for drinks a few weeks ago. One thing that I gathered from our conversations is that she's very independent. When I asked her if she wanted to sit outside or inside she didn't hesitate to say outside and took the buzzer from the hostess. Our conversation never dragged.

After dinner, we went and shot pool. I told her that if I won 3 out of 5 games, she had to go on a second date. She said it wouldn't matter, she'd go out with me again if I asked. 

To my chagrin, I lost the first game. She had a very mischievous smile. I decided to sweeten the pot and asked her for each game I won, I would get a kiss. It worked out in my favor. 

It's been a LONG time since I've been in the game, but I enjoyed the subtle flirting that she did. I felt awkward, second guessing myself, wondering if I was "trying to hard" but after I walked her to her door and said goodnight, she put my worries to rest by telling me that when she gets back from her business trip next week, she'd like to go out again. 

Her text to me 15 min after I left made me smile: "Just wanted to say thank you for a wonderful evening. I really enjoyed spending time with you. Have a safe trip. Good night".

incidentally, Raider texted me during the date because:

1) D16 did not want to spend time with her today. Raider's POSOM works long hours on Saturday and she's quite lonely as she has complained to me before 

2) Raider was complaining about the distance that the new job she has to start would be "stressful" for when she has to stay with D16. 

3) She still wanted me to print out the bank statements proving what the money from her student loan went on.

My response: I'm busy and can't talk. You can figure things out on your own now.

Staying at 50K feet and on cloud nine. We took a picture together but it came out blurry. She is a beautiful lady. Fenix, if you're out there...you are so right.


----------



## Kevinb

Happy for you Mate...kicking goals from 50


----------



## Fenix

AFP, excellent! Your post made me happy. 

It is a huge world out there, with many wonderful people. It is time to throw off that diseased portion of our lives and start enjoying life again!

eta: Now you need to come play over in the Life After Divorce section. It is fun over there!


----------



## AFPhoenix

So...my date from the other night texted me this evening:

Her: Hope you had a safe flight and your day has been good so far. I made it to CT and now able to relax. Have a great evening.

Me: I wrestled with not responding. Still trying to fix the No More Mr. Nice Guy but ended up caving and replied:

Hey there. I did have a good flight. I picked up the rest of the team. I was thinking about you. Glad you had a safe trip. I'm sure your hard work will pay off and I hope you get a chance to unwind and enjoy yourself there. I've been smiling all day...thanks to you.

Her: AWWWW. That is so sweet. I know, me too. I am looking forward to when we get together again after our trips. I am about to go and eat so I can get back to work.

I want to tread carefully here. She knows about the situation, through texts and our initial meeting, which I'm not sure why she didn't run for the hills from that. I did not mention Raider ONE TIME during our date because I didn't think about her until she texted me with her crap. 

Any advice?


----------



## Fenix

Well, from a chick's perspective, if you don't respond, it's a slap in the face. It was a nice message and is letting you know she is interested. Not responding tells her you are not and to move on.

Be careful with the nice guy nonsense. Some of us like nice guys who are not pushovers.

Plus, flirting by text is just really fun.  Relax and enjoy it.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> So...today my date from the other night texted me this evening:
> 
> Her: Hope you had a safe flight and your day has been good so far. I made it to CT and now able to relax. Have a great evening.
> 
> Me: I wrestled with not responding. Still trying to fix the No More Mr. Nice Guy but ended up caving and replied:
> 
> Hey there. I did have a good flight. I picked up the rest of the team. I was thinking about you. Glad you had a safe trip. I'm sure your hard work will pay off and I hope you get a chance to unwind and enjoy yourself there. I've been smiling all day...thanks to you.
> 
> Her: AWWWW. That is so sweet. I know, me too. I am looking forward to when we get together again after our trips. I am about to go and eat so I can get back to work.
> 
> I want to tread carefully here. She knows about the situation, through texts and our initial meeting, which I'm not sure why she didn't run for the hills from that. I did not mention Raider ONE TIME during our date because I didn't think about her until she texted me with her crap.
> 
> Any advice?


We don't respond to abusive behavior.

Those that are kind to us should receive the same courtesy in return.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Fenix. you're right, No More Mr. Nice guy does not mean to be a jerk.

Conrad, again, thanks for the guidance. I'm thankful I found this website.

Fenix, we still need to do our TAM/DMV meet-up. I guess Bullwinkle is out now...what's going on with that situation?


----------



## LongWalk

Hope you meet BW. Saw hello from me.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Near the end of my trip...I send my new interest, I think I'll call her Breath of Fresh Air (BOFA), a text about my adventures on St Patrick's Day. She responds;

BOFA: Thanks for the pictures. I am awful at selfies and I have been the one taking pictures on my trip. I was in the room for 2 min and took this pic for you, not a great pic. On my way to dinner, I hope you had a great night.

Me: I think the pic is fantastic..thank you. My smile has not vanished...I look forward to our next date...I'll have to figure out some angle to steal a kiss.

BOFA: AWWW. Thank you. I know. I have really been looking forward to our next date!!  Can't wait for it. And you don't need to steal one. You can have one...

Me: You have made my night...week...hell, my smile is surgically implanted.

BOFA: So what night is good for you this weekend?

Me: Fri or Sun. I am going to my cousin's in Maryland on Sat... but if Sat is better for you, I will change my plans.

BOFA: No. I don't want you to change plans. Fri should be good for me.

I am doing my best to find a suitable date night planned for us. I have came across a few ideas. However.....

I am getting in late on Wed night. D16 is ok with me dating, and wants me to. I just feel guilty leaving her alone on the weekends.

BOFA seems too good to be true. She's unlike Raider...and that somewhat intrigues and scares me. It's nice not thinking about Raider. Still some work to go on me without committing to a relationship. I just do not want to hurt or string someone along. This is a rough part of the Long Painful Path.


----------



## Chuck71

keep in mind.....Raider Baiter was once this nice to you and made

you feel all ucky inside. The first layer you peel away with a female

is the well mannered congenial one. Not saying be careful....

just keep in mind how people always present themselves as

Mrs. Wonderful. My X did same thing....eventually the cracks

showed. Until then, live it up! Give kindness when you receive 

kindness. Oh.... D16 doesn't mind...she just wants things to

return to the no drama days. How is D22 doing?


----------



## Pictureless

How old is BOFA? Divorced? Kids?


----------



## Fenix

One day at a time, AFP. Enjoy BOFA but keep perspective. Easy on the giddiness.

As far as being very different than Raider. Excellent! Fewer reminders plus having been in only one relationship, you may find that different is better.


----------



## helolover

AFP, let BOFA chase you a bit. Brush up on your game. Read about evolutionary biology. Study this stuff. You show your cards too soon and you'll be chumped by her. Nature rules. 

HL


----------



## LBHmidwest

Have fun!


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: I realize that. D22 is a little skeptical on me dating right now. She wants me to date but she's not sure I'm ready.

Pictureless: BOFA is 41, divorced with a 16 year old.

Fenix: Thanks for the advice. I can't help feeling better. While it was not rational, I had that fear of being alone, not good enough for someone, and feeling like a failure. I haven't felt like that for a while. I'm enjoying the "game".

Helo: I have to admit, I like being chased by her. It's good for the ego. 

The Dr. I met started texting me again out of the blue after a month...I'm enjoying this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: I realize that. D22 is a little skeptical on me dating right now. She wants me to date but she's not sure I'm ready.
> 
> Pictureless: BOFA is 41, divorced with a 16 year old.
> 
> Fenix: Thanks for the advice. I can't help feeling better. While it was not rational, I had that fear of being alone, not good enough for someone, and feeling like a failure. I haven't felt like that for a while. I'm enjoying the "game".
> 
> Helo: I have to admit, I like being chased by her. It's good for the ego.
> 
> The Dr. I met started texting me again out of the blue after a month...I'm enjoying this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your text conversation was warm and friendly.

Use a bit more humor and pay a few less compliments.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: I realize that. D22 is a little skeptical on me dating right now. She wants me to date but she's not sure I'm ready.
> 
> Pictureless: BOFA is 41, divorced with a 16 year old.
> 
> Fenix: Thanks for the advice. I can't help feeling better. While it was not rational, I had that fear of being alone, not good enough for someone, and feeling like a failure. I haven't felt like that for a while. I'm enjoying the "game".
> 
> Helo: I have to admit, I like being chased by her. It's good for the ego.
> 
> The Dr. I met started texting me again out of the blue after a month...I'm enjoying this.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Remember, you are a man with options! Good men are hard to find so don't rush or settle. Lots of plates out there to spin.


----------



## Chuck71

worse come to worse, you date and it doesn't work out

part ways on friendly terms. since life can always smile

the widest smile when it throws you a Steve Carlton curve....

maybe her son and your daughter would fall madly in love

and you and BOFA can be in-laws! I hear a reality series idea

churning from several networks. 

sorry, I'm in the country and march madness hasn't started yet


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: My life could already be made into a reality show. Raider and I are actually step-brother and step-sister.....here's the story.

Raider's mother died of cancer in 1998. My step-father passed away in 1999. Raider's dad and my mom would travel together over the years to visit us where ever we lived.

Nature took its course....Raider and I had been married for 9 years when her Dad called me to ask permission for my mother's hand. They married in 2003. Sadly, her Dad passed away of a heart attack in 2010 and my mother passed away in 2011 of a heart attack.

I can't make this stuff up.


----------



## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: My life could already be made into a reality show. Raider and I are actually step-brother and step-sister.....here's the story.
> 
> Raider's mother died of cancer in 1998. My step-father passed away in 1999. Raider's dad and my mom would travel together over the years to visit us where ever we lived.
> 
> Nature took its course....Raider and I had been married for 9 years when her Dad called me to ask permission for my mother's hand. They married in 2003. Sadly, her Dad passed away of a heart attack in 2010 and my mother passed away in 2011 of a heart attack.
> 
> I can't make this stuff up.


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I was pleasantly surprised not to find anymore decorations/stuff removed during my last business trip. I did find out that Raider dropped out of her Chemistry class. Other than that, it has been drama free....for now.

On another note, I made reservations at a quaint little Italian restaurant in DC. BOFA's favorite food is Italian. The reservations are later in the evening giving us time to walk around. Afterwards, we're going to the Lincoln memorial to sit on the steps. I'm looking forward to our date. 

It's funny, BOFA is a college football fan of my biggest rival.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> I was pleasantly surprised not to find anymore decorations/stuff removed during my last business trip. I did find out that Raider dropped out of her Chemistry class *so E=FU squared?*. Other than that, it has been drama free....for now.
> 
> On another note, I made reservations at a quaint little Italian*MAMA MIA* restaurant in DC. BOFA's favorite food is Italian. The reservations are later in the evening giving us time to walk around. Afterwards, we're going to the Lincoln memorial to sit on the steps. I'm looking forward to our date.
> 
> It's funny, BOFA is a college football fan of my biggest rival.


my g/f is huge fan of my most disliked team

you should tell RB you were going to assist her in Chem

have a blast in DC, if you see a wild eyed person suffering

a psychotic break, talking to the Sun, grasping to a box of

Massengil ... it's just a politician who told the truth


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck, that's evil...I like it. Isn't that an oxymoron...a politician telling the truth?


----------



## LongWalk

Chemistry changing relationships, happens all the time
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck, that's evil...I like it. Isn't that an oxymoron...a politician telling the truth?


nah..... a politician is just a moron

Italian bistros are the best! I have a running joke with a few

waiters / waitresses when I go from a Southern hillbilly voice

to a Gambino soldier. I had a relative in that 'line of work' but

not the one you see on the tube...this was the Dixie Mafia.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> I was pleasantly surprised not to find anymore decorations/stuff removed during my last business trip. I did find out that Raider dropped out of her Chemistry class. Other than that, it has been drama free....for now.
> 
> On another note, I made reservations at a quaint little Italian restaurant in DC. BOFA's favorite food is Italian. The reservations are later in the evening giving us time to walk around. Afterwards, we're going to the Lincoln memorial to sit on the steps. I'm looking forward to our date.
> 
> It's funny, BOFA is a college football fan of my biggest rival.


Gators?

:smthumbup:


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix:....worse, The University of Alabama...I don't know if i could handle a Roll Tide.

Chuck: I could pull off the Italian like Brad Pitt did in Inglorious Bastards.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix:....worse, The University of Alabama...I don't know if i could handle a Roll Tide.
> 
> Chuck: I could pull off the Italian like Brad Pitt did in Inglorious Bastards.


egh...buy her a pack of Lucky Strikes and say, "Bear loves ya"


----------



## AFPhoenix

D16 texts Raider to see if they're still going out tonight. Raider tells her she just got out of school, she's not feeling well, and she's really tired. Raider asks D16 if they can do something tomorrow. D16 says it's fine but I see she's disappointed. I'm not going to try to "fix it".

Last night's date with BOFA was fantastic. I asked her if she'd like to go on a picnic when the cherry blossoms are blooming probably the first weekend in April. She said she'd love to...then asked if we can do something next weekend. 

I invited her over for movie night and grilling some steaks. I asked D16 if it was ok and she said she doesn't want to meet her...I'm a little surprised...D16 and D22 have both wanted me to date but they both don't think I'm ready. 

I told them that in IC, the therapist said it is not a bad idea as long as I have boundaries and not to rush into anything serious...she also said I've made amazing progress. I'm just a little dissapionted but I think that D16 may not be ready for me to date.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> D16 texts Raider to see if they're still going out tonight. Raider tells her she just got out of school, she's not feeling well, and she's really tired. Raider asks D16 if they can do something tomorrow. D16 says it's fine but I see she's disappointed. I'm not going to try to "fix it".
> 
> Last night's date with BOFA was fantastic. I asked her if she'd like to go on a picnic when the cherry blossoms are blooming probably the first weekend in April. She said she'd love to...then asked if we can do something next weekend.
> 
> I invited her over for movie night and grilling some steaks. I asked D16 if it was ok and she said she doesn't want to meet her...I'm a little surprised...D16 and D22 have both wanted me to date but they both don't think I'm ready.
> 
> I told them that in IC, the therapist said it is not a bad idea as long as I have boundaries and not to rush into anything serious...she also said I've made amazing progress. I'm just a little dissapionted but I think that D16 may not be ready for me to date.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:nono:

AFP!!! It is far too early to introduce your dates to your daughter. It is one thing for D16 to be ok with you dating in the theoretical sense but she is not ready for it in the actual sense. Slow it down! Move your grilling date to a evening where D16 is with her mom or grill at BOFA's house. Don't even think about introducing dates until you know they are going to be around for awhile. 

I know you are excited and that is great...but keep it separate for now.

And yeah, this stuff is hard.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Fenix...D16 is going to be with Raider next Sat. BOFA and I will be doing movie night at my house. I've never seen "St Elmo's Fire" and she's never seen "Powder". I'm looking forward to it.

During Raider's visitation with D16 today, Raider told D16 that she's tired of being alone and told POSOM that they should see other people....So much for their engagement. The good thing is that I don't care. Her fog is lifting and I'm waking up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Fenix...D16 is going to be with Raider next Sat. BOFA and I will be doing movie night at my house. I've never seen "St Elmo's Fire" and she's never seen "Powder". I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> During Raider's visitation with D16 today, Raider told D16 that she's tired of being alone and told POSOM that they should see other people....So much for their engagement. The good thing is that I don't care. Her fog is lifting and I'm waking up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Raider... getting bored and looking for action?

Who would have ever thought?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad it seems like a common theme on here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad it seems like a common theme on here.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AFP,

Does it strike you as odd that when you read the Bible, the people in Biblical times had the same emotional problems and issues we all face today?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad: people will always be flawed and broken. It started with Adam and Eve. I can hold my head high knowing I stuck to my vow I made 22 years ago. God works in mysterious ways.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad: people will always be flawed and broken. It started with Adam and Eve. I can hold my head high knowing I stuck to my vow I made 22 years ago. God works in mysterious ways.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I would expect those themes to remain common


----------



## AFPhoenix

Sadly, I feel you're right.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> Sadly, I feel you're right.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Look at it this way.

At least you now know what you're up against.

That's far more than 1/2 the battle.

Now, let's play to win.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Fenix...D16 is going to be with Raider next Sat. BOFA and I will be doing movie night at my house. I've never seen "St Elmo's Fire" and she's never seen "Powder". I'm looking forward to it. [/quote/
> Excellent. Powder is the better of the two!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> During Raider's visitation with D16 today, Raider told D16 that she's tired of being alone and told POSOM that they should see other people....So much for their engagement. The good thing is that I don't care. Her fog is lifting and I'm waking up.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_
> 
> 
> 
> I am sorry but this infuritates me. How must your daughter feel? Her mother threw away a marriage to scratch a temporary itch. Raider had no business telling your daughter that.
Click to expand...


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix: D16 has been a little snippy here lately. I called D22 on Sat to find out what's been going on and she told me that D16 is not angry with me, she's just a little stressed from school and her boyfriend that still lives in Alabama (thankfully). But she did say that Raider was annoying her. 

I have told D16 that anytime her mother talks about anything that makes her uncomfortable to tell Raider that she's not discussing it and walk-away.

On Sat:
Raider: I told POSOM that we should perhaps start seeing other people. He works all the time and I'm tired of being alone.

D16: I don't want to hear it.

Raider: I don't have anyone to talk to about this.

D16: That should tell you something shouldn't it.

Raider: POSOM really loves me because he said that he doesn't want to see anyone else and...

D16: I asked you not to talk about it and if you do it again I want you to take me home.

Raider: Silence
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fenix

Your D is a smart girl and Raider needs to respect her boundaries. Keep the offer of therapy in the background, just let her know it is always available.


The impact of infidelity on our children as they enter into adulthood and LTRs of their own is what really upsets me about all of this.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix: D16 has been a little snippy here lately. I called D22 on Sat to find out what's been going on and she told me that D16 is not angry with me, she's just a little stressed from school and her boyfriend that still lives in Alabama (thankfully). But she did say that Raider was annoying her.
> 
> I have told D16 that anytime her mother talks about anything that makes her uncomfortable to tell Raider that she's not discussing it and walk-away.
> 
> On Sat:
> Raider: I told POSOM that we should perhaps start seeing other people. He works all the time and I'm tired of being alone.
> 
> D16: I don't want to hear it.
> 
> Raider: I don't have anyone to talk to about this.
> 
> D16: That should tell you something shouldn't it.
> 
> Raider: POSOM really loves me because he said that he doesn't want to see anyone else and...
> 
> D16: I asked you not to talk about it and if you do it again I want you to take me home.
> 
> Raider: Silence
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


This is easily the best post I've read on TAM recently. You almost feel sorry for Raider...almost but not quite.


----------



## Conrad

Fenix said:


> I am sorry but this infuritates me. How must your daughter feel? Her mother threw away a marriage to scratch a temporary itch. Raider had no business telling your daughter that.


Raider currently has no business as a member of the human race.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Conrad said:


> Raider currently has no business as a member of the human race.


On the contrary, she is a great example of how a WIFE/MOTHER/DAUGHTER should not act.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> On the contrary, she is a great example of how a WIFE/MOTHER/DAUGHTER should not act.


Contrary.... ok - whatever you say.


----------



## AFPhoenix

BOFA texted me today:

BOFA: I'm looking forward to dinner night. How about lunch on Wed?

Me: That would be great. I'm looking forward to Sat night too.

BOFA: Maybe this time I won't change outfits 5 times before our date.

Me: I'll take that as a compliment.

I'm not sure how to broach the fact that D16 is somewhat apprehensive about meeting her. D16 is planning on being with Raider, but she is usually home around 8. D16 said she will just go to her room.

I'm taking it slow with BOFA.


----------



## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> BOFA texted me today:
> 
> BOFA: I'm looking forward to dinner night. How about lunch on Wed?
> 
> Me: That would be great. I'm looking forward to Sat night too.
> 
> BOFA: Maybe this time I won't change outfits 5 times before our date.
> 
> Me: I'll take that as a compliment.
> 
> I'm not sure how to broach the fact that D16 is somewhat apprehensive about meeting her. D16 is planning on being with Raider, but she is usually home around 8. D16 said she will just go to her room.
> 
> I'm taking it slow with BOFA.


Is BOFA hot?
Just curious.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I think so. I may post a picture on here. The one we took together at the Lincoln Memorial did not turn out. 

My love language is Physical Touch. I'm not sure if she makes it a point, but she does the flirtatious brushing up against me, putting her hand on my chest and while we were sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, she rested her head on my shoulder.

It's intoxicating.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> I think so. I may post a picture on here. The one we took together at the Lincoln Memorial did not turn out.
> 
> My love language is Physical Touch. I'm not sure if she makes it a point, but she does the flirtatioius brushing up against me, putting her hand on my chest and while we were sitting on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, she rested her head on my shoulder.
> 
> It's intoxicating.


Sounds like you're going to get the goods.

Be prepared.


----------



## tom67

Fitting one hit wonder

Paul Lekakis - Boom boom (let's go back to my room) - YouTube

I don't know how I remembered this one.:scratchhead:


----------



## Chuck71

D16 wants to take things slow, she may not be comfy meeting her

until the D is final. Look for RBs posom to ask her for M, right 

after the D is final. RB may throw her snatch in your face

now the JC is fading away and you are seeing BOFA


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: Raider informed me a few weeks ago that her and POSOM are engaged with a wedding date in June 2015 when he turns 50. My response: Congratulations.

The divorce will not be final until Dec. Part of me wanted to be alone for a while before dating but I know what I want in a person and why miss out on things? I deserve happiness. If she did come back flaunting her wares, which are quite good, all I have to remember is the hell she put me through....twice. I respect myself more than that.

I had a talk with D16. I told her I'm ready to date and my therapist agreed but I would never force her into meeting someone until she's ready.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFPhoenix

Today was date night with BOFA. The weather was crap, but the company was fantastic. I grilled a nice steak with some grilled potatoes and asparagus.

While watching the first of our two movies, BOFA grabs my hand to let me know that she really enjoyed the dinner.

We made out like teenagers....lol. D16 came back home early from her and Raider's time out. D16 has been fighting with her boyfriend in Alabama so she's been a little snippy.

I'm glad that Raider didn't flip out when she saw another vehicle in the driveway. I haven't heard from her and I hope that I don't.

Things could have progressed farther with BOFA but I told her that I wanted our first time not to be rushed and without the fear of D16 catching us (felt like a teenager). BOFA said she totally understood.....but it was hard...no pun intended.


----------



## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> Today was date night with BOFA. The weather was crap, but the company was fantastic. I grilled a nice steak with some grilled potatoes and asparagus.
> 
> While watching the first of our two movies, BOFA grabs my hand to let me know that she really enjoyed the dinner.
> 
> We made out like teenagers....lol. D16 came back home early from her and Raider's time out. D16 has been fighting with her boyfriend in Alabama so she's been a little snippy.
> 
> I'm glad that Raider didn't flip out when she saw another vehicle in the driveway. I haven't heard from her and I hope that I don't.
> 
> Things could have progressed farther with BOFA but I told her that I wanted our first time not to be rushed and without the fear of D16 catching us (felt like a teenager). BOFA said she totally understood.....but it was hard...no pun intended.


:smthumbup::rofl:


----------



## Chuck71

RB is now w/o JC right? Sees you with a woman over....

you'll hear from her, trust me!

Distance is getting to D16, can she go see him over summer?


----------



## LBHmidwest

Rock on!!!!!


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck, as far as I know, she's still with her POSOM, Jack Croft. I find it humorous that she pulled her manipulative games with him too.

D16 is going back home during her Spring Break when I'm on another trip. I had the uncomfortable talk with her on expectations...I felt somewhat hypocritical, but it is what it is.

Thanks LBH...I hope you're doing well.


----------



## Chuck71

D16 is lovesick....completely understandable

try checking out a movie that was big back when you and BOFA

were teenagers....then "act like teenagers" 

I recommend Beach Balls 1990.... the soundtrack to it, Dr. Starr

I saw them live....very cool band

and to think AFP, you were so devastated awhile back

RB and JC have each other, deservedly so

as stated, things never turn out as they expected


----------



## AFPhoenix

lol, we watched St. Elmo's fire tonight. You're right Chuck, I'm not the same man I was a few months ago. I graduated from my Anger Management class...but I'm still following up with IC. 

I took down all of our pictures from the large picture frame collages that we had. I found myself still having a twinge of sadness but I had a smile remembering the good times during those pictures. By no means am I completely healed, but I have accepted the fact that we will never be back together. I have also realized how irrational my thoughts were when I thought that I could never find someone again. 

What the hell was I thinking? There are so many different women out there. What I find surprising is how many different single/divorced women that Raider and I have known are reaching out to me during these times.

Part of me still wants to smash POSOM's face in....but no where near as strong as it once was. I am now preparing for the inevitable that D16 will meet POSOM. That is going to hurt.


----------



## Chuck71

I still look at old pictures of WC, back in the day

I will always love the person she was. That person died.

I don't think I have any pictures of us past 2005

D16 is mature for her age, she's had to be with her psycho mom

if D16 does not wish to meet JC, she won't

she has firm boundaries with her mom

it's funny, in my book, Angie is a lot like D16

she had a mom who was more interested in getting

a man than raising her children. She too....lived far away 

from her true love, Mike. Maybe the book is why I am

always wanting to know how D16 is doing


----------



## AFPhoenix

D16 is mature for her age...I'm amazed by it sometimes. She called D22 the other day saying she wants to move back there. D22 tells her to stay up here in VA because the schools are so much better and that she needs to live her life without worrying about what some boy thinks.

Thanks for asking about her. I appreciate it.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> D16 is mature for her age...I'm amazed by it sometimes. She called D22 the other day saying she wants to move back there. D22 tells her to stay up here in VA because the schools are so much better and that she needs to live her life without worrying about what some boy thinks.
> 
> Thanks for asking about her. I appreciate it.


Alerbami skools ain't dat good, she's rite

both your Ds have become resilient because of the scatterbrained

mom. D16s b/f has in many ways, been her rock

she can tell him things she can't you

RB is not dumb, I think she is intelligent

but her priorities are completely f'ed


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> D16 is mature for her age...I'm amazed by it sometimes. She called D22 the other day saying she wants to move back there. D22 tells her to stay up here in VA because the schools are so much better and that she needs to live her life without worrying about what some boy thinks.
> 
> Thanks for asking about her. I appreciate it.


D22 is wise. No matter how mature a 16 year old, they are going to be snippy and impulsive from time to time. Moving back to AL would be unwise in so many ways.

First of all, glad to hear the date was so positive. :smthumbup:

Second of all, your D16 will be watching you. Now, there is a difference between how a 40 something divorced man and a 16 year old girl should behave. But there are a few commonalities. *warning on fairly conservative viewpoint coming...* Sex based on respect and affection, safe, honesty and integrity and no hook ups. If I were you, I would make sure that my daughter sees me treating a woman how I would want my daughter to be treated. At some point, it will have to be address but I think if you could wait (to address it, not to have it) a good six months, that would be best.

I have the same dilemma. I have been seeing someone for 2 1/2 months---I had only been with my X, so this has been quite the (fun) adventure. My kids will probably meet him in May and THAT discussion will probably take place...well, I haven't figured when...maybe this summer. I have never connected marriage to sex in discussions with my kids, but have stated it to be an adult activity between two loving adults due to its potential consequences. Kind of feeling my way here!


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Fenix. You're absolutely right, I want D16 to see me treat my dates in a respectful manner...which is exactly why things did not progress last night. Lol, I actually got a text this morning saying she was impressed with my "self-control". We've been talking for a little over a month now and I'm still going on other dates. I do enjoy her company and I'm so impressed with some of her actions:
1. When I open the car door for her, she automatically hits the unlock button for me
2. She's always punctual 
3. I like her parenting skills
4. I cooked everything last night but she constantly asked if she could help and ran back and forth getting me things
5. She satisfies my physical touch language...not just with a kiss...with hand holding, touching my head, arm, chest
6. She has amazing brown eyes!

I don't want to get caught up in these "feelings" and want to proceed with caution.

Thanks guys for listening.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Fenix. You're absolutely right, I want D16 to seem treat my dates in a respectful manner...which is exactly why things did not progress last night. Lol, I actually got a text this morning saying she was impressed with my "self-control". We've Ben talking for a little over a month now and I'm still going on other dates. I do enjoy her company and I'm so impressed with some of her actions:
> 1. When I open the car door for her, she automatically hits the unlock but on for me
> 2. She's always punctual
> 3. I like her parenting skills
> 4. I cooked everything last night but she constantly asked if she could help and ran back and forth getting me things
> 5. She satisfies my physical touch language...not just with a kiss...with hand holding, touching my head, arm, chest
> 6. She has amazing brown eyes!
> 
> I don't want to get caught up in these "feelings" and want to proceed with caution.
> 
> Thanks guys for listening.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


very well done....... #1 is what I would always notice


----------



## AFPhoenix

Things are going great with BOFA. I asked her what her Love Language was during our date and she said that she wasn't sure since she never finished the test. Last night she told me she completed the test and hers were Physical Touch and Quality Time.

We had a lunch date planned for tomorrow, but I had a schedule change and had to go today. She re-worked her schedule to accommodate me. She printed out 3 different places to go for lunch and I asked her to choose. Without hesitation she did.

Again, she hit the unlock automatically when I opened her door. 

I feel like i'm auditioning her...and I suppose to an extent I am. I do like the attention that she's giving me and I like the fact that she appreciates the attention I give her. We're going on a wine tasting tour with a meetup group in the area. 

It's a new day.


----------



## Conrad

AFPhoenix said:


> We had a lunch date planned for tomorrow, but I had a schedule change and had to go today. She re-worked her schedule to accommodate me. She printed out 3 different places to go for lunch and I asked her to choose. Without hesitation she did.


Stop doing this.

Make the plans and lead - like a man.


----------



## Chuck71

:iagree:


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right...It's somewhat refreshing for her to do some things...it's new.


----------



## Chuck71

other day, g/f had 1/2 day off, told her be ready for drive

would not say more. drove scenic route into Smokies and

packed a basic PBnJ sammy and Coke picnic. She loved it.

To her....I thought enough of her to take the initiative

To me....if I let her decide, we'd be at the mall and I'd have 

a "shoot me" look on my face.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> You're right...It's somewhat refreshing for her to do some things...it's new.


That's ok, but not all the time. It gets tiring.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Noted....I already called her tonight and told her what the plans were....I'm picking her up Sat morning, breakfast, metro, wine tour, then dinner at the Melting Pot.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Noted....I already called her tonight and told her what the plans were....I'm picking her up Sat morning, breakfast, metro, wine tour, then dinner at the Melting Pot.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I like it..... but what is most important... she likes it alot


----------



## AFPhoenix

Drama update....my step-mom called tonight upset that Raider and her POSOM have put pictures if the engagement ring on FaceBook. To be honest, it stings a little, but it also shows the immaturity level of both of them. My response to my step-mom.."I could not care less". 

My step-mom said she was worried about me getting upset and confronting both of them.

I am not that man anymore
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Brokenman85

I know that has to sting. You will win in the end. Stay strong buddy.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Drama update....my step-mom called tonight upset that Raider and her POSOM have put pictures if the engagement ring on FaceBook. To be honest, it stings a little, but it also shows the immaturity level of both of them. My response to my step-mom.."I could not care less".
> 
> My step-mom said she was worried about me getting upset and confronting both of them.
> 
> I am not that man anymore
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Survivor - I'm Not That Man Anymore (live) - YouTube


----------



## Brokenman85

What I told you just reminded me of this song from "Teen Wolf". I'd say it's surprisingly relevant lol

Win In The End- Mark Safan Lyrics: Win In The End- Mark Safan Lyrics - YouTube


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Chuck and Brokenman. I hope I can stay at 50k feet.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## tom67

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Chuck and Brokenman. I hope I can stay at 50k feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


AFP this too shall pass.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Thanks Chuck and Brokenman. I hope I can stay at 50k feet.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You can.

Posting the pics is a move that is calculated to get a reaction out of you. Raider is trying to manipulate you. I have to say, it is a very ugly move. It just is one more thing that shows her to be a low quality person.

You are not.

Stay focused on the future.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Drama update....my step-mom called tonight upset that Raider and her POSOM have put pictures if the engagement ring on FaceBook. To be honest, it stings a little, but it also shows the immaturity level of both of them. My response to my step-mom.."I could not care less".
> 
> My step-mom said she was worried about me getting upset and confronting both of them.
> 
> I am not that man anymore
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


maybe when their "love nest" collapses like a black hole

RB can post a sad face for us to view on FB


----------



## AFPhoenix

Today's little bit of Drama:

Raider: I need to know D16's travel plans on Sat. I have lab that day and if I can't get out she will just have to miss her flight.

Me: She flies out at 3:42. Don't worry, I have a back-up plan.

Raider: what's your back up plan? D16 really wanted a direct flight. 

Me: I have a co-worker who can take her.

Raider: which co-worker?

Me: Jason and his wife. Do not wait until Fri to tell me you can't do it. Never mind, I'll just have them do it.

Raider: ok. When do u leave?

Me: I leave on Fri.

On another note, the date with BOFA was beyond great. I picked her up at 9 in the morning, went to breakfast, which she demanded to pay for, metro to the bus, bus ride to two wineries then dinner at the melting pot. That was the shortest 14 hours of my life. It feels good. I just can't wait until the divorce is final. I may re-think about the filing and now file on fault grounds especially now that she is engaged. Everyone is reaching out to ask how I'm handling the news. I just tell them it's funny she's engaged while still married but I really do not care. A part of me wants to reach out to POSOM and tell him what a disrespectful pr!ck he is but everyone knows it plus I don't want to run the risk of it escalating to a physical confrontation.

The last time I talked to him I said the next one will be face to face. I'm a man of my word.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LBHmidwest

AFPhoenix said:


> Today's little bit of Drama:
> 
> Raider: I need to know D16's travel plans on Sat. I have lab that day and if I can't get out she will just have to miss her flight.
> 
> Me: She flies out at 3:42. Don't worry, I have a back-up plan.
> 
> Raider: what's your back up plan? D16 really wanted a direct flight.
> 
> Me: I have a co-worker who can take her.
> 
> Raider: which co-worker?
> 
> Me: Jason and his wife. Do not wait until Fri to tell me you can't do it. Never mind, I'll just have them do it.
> 
> Raider: ok. When do u leave?
> 
> Me: I leave on Fri.
> 
> On another note, the date with BOFA was beyond great. I picked her up at 9 in the morning, went to breakfast, which she demanded to pay for, metro to the bus, bus ride to two wineries then dinner at the melting pot. That was the shortest 14 hours of my life. It feels good. I just can't wait until the divorce is final. I may re-think about the filing and now file on fault grounds especially now that she is engaged. Everyone is reaching out to be to ask how I'm handling the news. I just tell them it's funny she's engaged while still married but I really do not care. A part if me wants to reach out to POSOM and tell him what a disrespectful pr!ck he is but everyone knows it plus I don't want to run the risk of it escalating to a physical confrontation.
> 
> The last time I talked to him I said the next one will be face to face. I'm a man of my word.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Stay cool...

You don't want her. He does.

Win Win for you

(I know these words seem hollow down deep)


----------



## AFPhoenix

It's not as tough as it was but a part of me still wants to bash his face in. Barbaric as it sounds, I want to prove I'm the better man...that's why I haven't given in to the urge to fight him...I'm being the better man.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fenix

Why thinking of filing for fault now?? You pretty much got what you wanted and it is expensive. What is the upside?

Good news on the date. That sounds like a very fun day. Ain't life grand?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix said:


> Why thinking of filing for fault now?? You pretty much got what you wanted and it is expensive. What is the upside?
> 
> Good news on the date. That sounds like a very fun day. Ain't life grand?


I'd just like my status to be divorced vice separated...i think it would make me feel better.

Happy early birthday!


----------



## helolover

AFPhoenix said:


> It's not as tough as it was but a part of me still wants to bash his face in. Barbaric as it sounds, I want to prove I'm the better man...that's why I haven't given in to the urge to fight him...I'm being the better man.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How true. Even more impressive is that by not fighting him over her, you are not giving HER the adrenaline rush and "value" of being fought over by 2 men. What a rush that must be. She would love to be part of a "let's you and him fight" scenario.

By not, dude. You win. You win by walking away from this cheating woman who has done this TWICE to you. 

You seem to be doing good, although you may not feel it. The less you respond to Raider, the more it drives her nuts and makes her do the FB picture thing. 

I'm rooting for you.


----------



## Chuck71

helolover said:


> How true. Even more impressive is that by not fighting him over her, you are not giving HER the adrenaline rush and "value" of being fought over by 2 men. What a rush that must be. She would love to be part of a "let's you and him fight" scenario.
> 
> By not, dude. You win. You win by walking away from this cheating woman who has done this TWICE to you.
> 
> You seem to be doing good, although you may not feel it. The less you respond to Raider, the more it drives her nuts and makes her do the FB picture thing.
> 
> I'm rooting for you.


have a fist fight for RB, loser gets RB


----------



## helolover

Chuck71 said:


> have a fist fight for RB, loser gets RB


and what a treat.


----------



## Fenix

helolover said:


> How true. Even more impressive is that by not fighting him over her, you are not giving HER the adrenaline rush and "value" of being fought over by 2 men. What a rush that must be. She would love to be part of a "let's you and him fight" scenario.
> 
> By not, dude. You win. You win by walking away from this cheating woman who has done this TWICE to you.
> 
> You seem to be doing good, although you may not feel it. The less you respond to Raider, the more it drives her nuts and makes her do the FB picture thing.
> 
> I'm rooting for you.


Yeah, I have to admit I do not understand this. It must be a guy thing. It's all on her. *shaking head*


----------



## Conrad

Fenix said:


> Yeah, I have to admit I do not understand this. It must be a guy thing. It's all on her. *shaking head*


I hear - in general - some females like attention.

You ever hear anything so earthshakingly new?


----------



## LongWalk

> She met someone at a bar. He's an older guy, a 2X divorced car salesman who lives in a modified basement apartment of someone's house. He claims to be an ex NFL player, I called the Raider's they have never heard of him, and even claims to be the ex body guard of Sylvester Stallone and is the cousin of Stephanie Myers....sound too good to be true? To everyone but my wife.


Is this the guy to whom she is engaged?


----------



## Pictureless

Yup, fist-a-cuffs not worth it. POSOM is doing what a POS does. It's RB that needs a butt whooping. But since we don't strike ladies it's only fair that POSOM gets RB unscathed....let him see how wonderful she is. The deserve each other.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Helo: I'm trying my best by not giving her the satisfaction that I'm fighting over her.

Fenix: I can't explain it..perhaps it is a guy thing... A part of me wants to take back what was mine and then I realize I am better off

Long walk: POSOM is the same POS that Raider was wanting to see other people on a few weeks ago

Pictureless: you're right...no one wins...but me

Conrad: Same story played out since the beginning of time

You guys are why I come here...you keep me grounded and give me hope.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## LongWalk

Love is blind. When she comes to, she'll be horrified that she got involved with him.


----------



## Chuck71

How is D16 and D22 doing? How are they with the news of engagement?

Whatever strife you and RB had in past, you were willing to work on it

she had one foot out the door. Jack Schit was the first con who threw her a bone

I feel RB already knows her n Schit are headed for disaster

but she, under no circumstances, will admit this.....not now

have a blast with BOFA.... don't bring up RB until D is final

if she asks, "Story left untold until finish line reached"


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> How is D16 and D22 doing? How are they with the news of engagement?
> 
> Whatever strife you and RB had in past, you were willing to work on it
> 
> she had one foot out the door. Jack Schit was the first con who threw her a bone
> 
> I feel RB already knows her n Schit are headed for disaster
> 
> but she, under no circumstances, will admit this.....not now
> 
> have a blast with BOFA.... don't bring up RB until D is final
> 
> if she asks, "Story left untold until finish line reached"


"It's complicated"


----------



## Chuck71

what about "talking about RB makes me constipated"


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: D22 and D16 are disgusted with the engagement ring fiasco. D22 called her mother and POSOM "disgustingly disrespectful". D16 told her Raider that the chocolate diamond ring was ugly and smaller than what she had. D22 also said something similar about Raider having too much pride and stubbornness to admit she has made a huge mistake. D22 also called her an idiot since a couple of weeks ago she had mentioned something about wanting to date other people and she is tired of being alone.

BOFA knows a little about Raider. BOFA was a little hesitant on my separation status. I rarely talk about Raider to BOFA.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck: D22 and D16 are disgusted with the engagement ring fiasco. D22 called her mother and POSOM "disgustingly disrespectful". D16 told her Raider that the chocolate diamond ring was ugly and smaller than what she had. D22 also said something similar about Raider having too much pride and stubbornness to admit she has made a huge mistake. D22 also called her an idiot since a couple of weeks ago she had mentioned something about wanting to date other people and she is tired of being alone.
> 
> BOFA knows a little about Raider. BOFA was a little hesitant on my separation status. I rarely talk about Raider to BOFA.


still married to you

engaged to Jack Schit 

"wanting to date other people and she is tired of being alone"

I'm not a math major but this equation spells train wreck


----------



## Conrad

Chuck71 said:


> still married to you
> 
> engaged to Jack Schit
> 
> "wanting to date other people and she is tired of being alone"
> 
> I'm not a math major but this equation spells train wreck


----------



## LongWalk

Amtrak?


----------



## helolover

LongWalk said:


> Amtrak?


More like Raider Express I think.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I wish that it did not turn out this way because I still care about her. I'm not in love with her anymore that's the honest truth. I actually feel sorry for her. But she put herself on this path. I don't plan on staying on it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

Almost word for word what I said when the D final neared

"she did you a favor, she set you free" wise woman told me that

things may work with BOFA, they may not but.....

you are in a much healthier position if so

when Jack Schit leaves RB.... you will see a very desperate human


----------



## AFPhoenix

Today's dose of daily drama concerning Raider:

While traveling today, I get a text from D16 telling me that her mom will not be able to take her to the airport because of school and that she was fired from her job for being "too slow".

I was already prepared for this contingency. I called a friend of mine and he will be taking D16 to the airport tomorrow. I have not heard from Raider.

I did hear from BOFA. I had flower/chocolate delivered to her work today. She said that she had been thinking about me all day when she was pleasantly surprised by the flowers. We are going hiking when I get back in 10 days and she said she can't wait! We're also going to a concert the beginning of May. 

I cancelled a date that I had with another lady for when I got back...I know I should date more, and perhaps I will, but I really enjoy my time with BOFA. I'm confused. I'm not falling for BOFA, but I also don't want to see others right now either. Is this normal? Raider reminds me of Anna Karenina...so sad.


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> I cancelled a date that I had with another lady for when I got back...I know I should date more, and perhaps I will, but I really enjoy my time with BOFA. I'm confused. I'm not falling for BOFA, but I also don't want to see others right now either. Is this normal? Raider reminds me of Anna Karenina...so sad.


I think it is normal. Of course, it is how I operate too. If I like the person I am seeing, I am not interested in seeing others. You enjoy BOFA's company, you are thinking of taking it physical (right?), why not just enjoy her for now?


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right Fenix. I do enjoy her company immensely. I saw a hotel in Prague...it's the hotel
Fenix..I thought of us. : )
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BRB

Fenix said:


> I think it is normal. Of course, it is how I operate too. If I like the person I am seeing, I am not interested in seeing others. You enjoy BOFA's company, you are thinking of taking it physical (right?), why not just enjoy her for now?


I'm trying to get up to speed on all of the acronyms. What does BOFA stand for? Thanks.


----------



## AFPhoenix

BRB: BOFA stands for Breath of Fresh Air...my pet-name for this amazing lady I met.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> BRB: BOFA stands for Breath of Fresh Air...my pet-name for this amazing lady I met.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Is this the same guy from two months ago? 

Good work, bro!


----------



## Conrad

Pictureless said:


> Is this the same guy from two months ago?
> 
> Good work, bro!


The path no longer seems long - or painful


----------



## AFPhoenix

My trip was cut short...Prague is a beautiful city! Since D16 is in Alabama visiting, I thought I would see if BOFA was available to go out. I told her I'd pick her up again and have a picnic and catch the remaining cherry blossoms. She said it sounded great. 

When I got back on Thu she asked what my plans were for Fri. I told her nothing and she said her D was going to be gone until Sunday...so...I picked her up on Fri and spent the entire weekend with her, which was great...but...she said that she is not dating anyone else during this time and asked me if that freaked me out. I told her no.

My concerns...I don't want to hurt her but I want to still date other women. I'm going to tell her at lunch on Thu. We have plans to go hiking on Sat and then going to a concert on May 3rd. There is another lady that has captured my attention and we've been talking a little.

Sigh...I just don't want to rush into anything, and I want to enjoy the company of women. I never really dated before and there are so many out there! I was a fool to think I'd never be happy again.

My self esteem is coming back and so is my swagger.


----------



## BRB

Stupid question, but how in the world are you meeting these women? Online?

I want to date, too. I've forgotten what's it like, but I have no idea how to meet guys. 

I've thought about online, but I'm so nervous about putting myself out there like that. I don't know....


----------



## helolover

AFPhoenix said:


> My trip was cut short...Prague is a beautiful city! Since D16 is in Alabama visiting, I thought I would see if BOFA was available to go out. I told her I'd pick her up again and have a picnic and catch the remaining cherry blossoms. She said it sounded great.
> 
> When I got back on Thu she asked what my plans were for Fri. I told her nothing and she said her D was going to be gone until Sunday...so...I picked her up on Fri and spent the entire weekend with her, which was great...but...she said that she is not dating anyone else during this time and asked me if that freaked me out. I told her no.
> 
> My concerns...I don't want to hurt her but I want to still date other women. I'm going to tell her at lunch on Thu. We have plans to go hiking on Sat and then going to a concert on May 3rd. There is another lady that has captured my attention and we've been talking a little.
> 
> Sigh...I just don't want to rush into anything, and I want to enjoy the company of women. I never really dated before and there are so many out there! I was a fool to think I'd never be happy again.
> 
> My self esteem is coming back and so is my swagger.


Why do you have to tell her? Did she ask you to be exclusive?


----------



## AFPhoenix

BRB: I'm on Match so I've met a few there...BOFA was on match. The other lady I met at a social in DC. I'm also a member of a couple of Meetup Groups.

Helo: she never asked if I was exclusive but I just will feel better by telling her that I want to continue to date her but others as well.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> My trip was cut short...Prague is a beautiful city! Since D16 is in Alabama visiting, I thought I would see if BOFA was available to go out. I told her I'd pick her up again and have a picnic and catch the remaining cherry blossoms. She said it sounded great.
> 
> When I got back on Thu she asked what my plans were for Fri. I told her nothing and she said her D was going to be gone until Sunday...so...I picked her up on Fri and spent the entire weekend with her, which was great...but...she said that she is not dating anyone else during this time and asked me if that freaked me out. I told her no.
> 
> My concerns...I don't want to hurt her but I want to still date other women. I'm going to tell her at lunch on Thu. We have plans to go hiking on Sat and then going to a concert on May 3rd. There is another lady that has captured my attention and we've been talking a little.
> 
> Sigh...I just don't want to rush into anything, and I want to enjoy the company of women. I never really dated before and there are so many out there! I was a fool to think I'd never be happy again.
> 
> My self esteem is coming back and so is my swagger.


Wait...what? Prague?? I wish I had known you were going to be there. That is where I have lived for the past two years. Could have given you some good pointers!

Be honest with BOFA. She told you that because she was trying to gauge if you were interested in being exclusive. Do not be surprised if she moves on though. I am assuming that you guys have moved to the next stage? She may not be interested in 'knocking boots' with someone who is on the prowl. You are in a different space than she is (which is absolutely ok and to be expected).



> BRB Re: Long Painful Path
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stupid question, but how in the world are you meeting these women? Online?
> 
> I want to date, too. I've forgotten what's it like, but I have no idea how to meet guys.
> 
> I've thought about online, but I'm so nervous about putting myself out there like that. I don't know....


BRB, are you in NoVa? I started dating in November and met so many guys through meet ups, networking in general and match.com It has been a ton of fun. I really enjoyed my experience on match. I probably undersold myself but each date was a good experience, with all except one being friendzoned. I never felt like the date was a waste of time though. Each guy was quality, entertaining and likable.


----------



## BRB

BRB, are you in NoVa? I started dating in November and met so many guys through meet ups, networking in general and match.com It has been a ton of fun. I really enjoyed my experience on match. I probably undersold myself but each date was a good experience, with all except one being friendzoned. I never felt like the date was a waste of time though. Each guy was quality, entertaining and likable.[/QUOTE]

Fenix, I am in NOVA (Fairfax). I googled Match and of course read nothing but horror stories and most of them about how you have to pay (I had no idea). I have to think about it. I'm so nervous and I have no game. hahahaha!!!! It's been so long.

I am a little bit of an introvert, and it takes me a while to warm up. Having the dogs really gets me out and about. I guess I need to step out of my comfort zone a little more or maybe even though I'm dying to date I'm not really ready(?).

I didn't mean to hijack this thread about my dating issues.


----------



## Fenix

BRB said:


> BRB, are you in NoVa? I started dating in November and met so many guys through meet ups, networking in general and match.com It has been a ton of fun. I really enjoyed my experience on match. I probably undersold myself but each date was a good experience, with all except one being friendzoned. I never felt like the date was a waste of time though. Each guy was quality, entertaining and likable.


Fenix, I am in NOVA (Fairfax). I googled Match and of course read nothing but horror stories and most of them about how you have to pay (I had no idea). I have to think about it. I'm so nervous and I have no game. hahahaha!!!! It's been so long.

I am a little bit of an introvert, and it takes me a while to warm up. Having the dogs really gets me out and about. I guess I need to step out of my comfort zone a little more or maybe even though I'm dying to date I'm not really ready(?).

I didn't mean to hijack this thread about my dating issues.[/QUOTE]



BRB, I tried to send you a pm but couldn't so sent a friend request instead. I've got some advice/suggestions/invitation for you but don't want to put it out here.


----------



## BRB

Fenix said:


> Fenix, I am in NOVA (Fairfax). I googled Match and of course read nothing but horror stories and most of them about how you have to pay (I had no idea). I have to think about it. I'm so nervous and I have no game. hahahaha!!!! It's been so long.
> 
> I am a little bit of an introvert, and it takes me a while to warm up. Having the dogs really gets me out and about. I guess I need to step out of my comfort zone a little more or maybe even though I'm dying to date I'm not really ready(?).
> 
> I didn't mean to hijack this thread about my dating issues.




BRB, I tried to send you a pm but couldn't so sent a friend request instead. I've got some advice/suggestions/invitation for you but don't want to put it out here.[/QUOTE]

Fenix, I just changed my PM settings and just sent you a PM. Thanks!


----------



## Chuck71

most / almost all dating sites are like a corner bar

lots of smoke, mirrors, drama, attention seekers

be patient, observe, there is most likely a female there

who is not wild on the atmosphere either. how do I know?

recently on this blog we heard of a couple guys who felt the 

very same way.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix: I had only one day to spend in Prague but it left me wanting more. I'm definitely going back! I spent the 3 remaining days in Pardubice then a day in London. 

Yes, we've taken it to the next level : )

BRB: My Briggs Meyers assessment is ESTJ. During the initial stages of my separation/divorce I became the complete opposite. Match is ok....i have not had a horrible date but they have told me some stories. I have 3 dogs as well, and when I take my Lab for a walk it usually draws attention. I'm surprised that I never picked up on the subtle clues when women flirt....i notice now!

Chuck: You're right. It's like that old Bob Seger song, "The Fire Inside". I just hope that the women I choose to date will be as honest with me as I will be with them. Which is why i'm telling her on Thu that I want to continue to date her and still date others as well. Who knows, maybe i'll think about BOFA when i'm on other dates.


----------



## BRB

AFPhoenix: I use my dogs to strike up a conversation. However, most of the guys I've chatted with are spoken for. 

This is kind of funny but the neighbors on each side of me are married couples. When I met both couples the husbands were so chatty and interested in the dogs and introducing themselves. However, the wives barely could spit out a "hello". Never noticed that before. I don't think I was quite like that when I was happily married. It was kind of funny.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hi TAM friends:
Just checking in to give updates. Things are going well with me and BOFA. We went to an all day concert on Sat. She does the small things that mean a lot: pours my coffee during breakfast at the restaurant; after i open the door for her she hits the automatic unlock button (my truck doesn't have the FOB for automatic door lock/unlock); she satisfies my physical touch Love Language i.e. she likes to hold hands, touches my arm when we talk, rubs the back of my head when we're sitting close. There are so many positives about her that Raider hardly ever fulfilled. I haven't seen or heard Raider's voice in over 3 months. 

Raider's last attempt to push my buttons was a text telling me when she was going to be unavailable to watch D16. One of those times is when she knows that I'll be out of town and has planned POSOM's birthday. Of course, the Separation Agreement explicitly says she will stay with D16 when I am on business trips. 

Raider is going to Alabama next week and D22 has told her that if she mentions the wedding or POSOM during that time she will no longer be allowed to stay there. I have to admit, that does bring me some satisfaction and hurts a little too.

This past weekend, Raider was doing school work all day Saturday and could not visit with D16. She called yesterday and asked D16 if she could take her to dinner and D16 said no. She was busy helping me in the yard and had other plans later. Raider started crying and telling D16 that she felt unloved and was trying to give D16 a guilt trip. 

I talked with D16 and told her that it was her choice whether to visit or not but reminded her that her mother loves her and not to be mean because of what she did to me. 

I'm happier than I've been in a long time. I have a date with a Brazilian lady on Fri but I think I may stop dating other women besides BOFA. I'm falling for her....but i'm not going to admit it to her. I'm trying to go back to 50K feet and just enjoy getting to know her. While she hasn't told me, I know she's fallen for me too. How could she not? : )


----------



## LBHmidwest

Way to go AFP. It's hard but I don't think you are thinking about Raider much, less is more! 

Sounds like a nice BOFA!

GOOD you take the high road, it sucks but you are better man.


----------



## Pictureless

How could she not....ha ha!  That a boy! Keep on keepin' on, bro. Raider the traitor.....so unloved bwaaaaa! Bwaaaaa! So classy laying guilt trip on daughter. I bet you're glad you didn't turn off POSOM's lights. She's all his!


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right Pictureless...I'm so glad that I didn't go beat the crap out of the coward. I wouldn't have what I have now...plus Raider is not worth fighting over.


----------



## Chuck71

so I'm guessing we won't see you in an R thread huh :rofl:

hope Jack Schit has a good birthday...look what came his way

your girls will show RB what she lost, in a "female" way

she gave you up and......her daughters for....again....

Jack Schit

good choice.... have fun asking him for help in chemistry


----------



## AFPhoenix

You will not find me on a R thread!

I'm glad those two found each other! I wonder when Raider is going to see him for the used car salesman he is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> You will not find me on a R thread!
> 
> I'm glad those two found each other! I wonder when Raider is going to see him for the used car salesman he is.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think she already has but will die before admitting it

you should send them a gift when they get hitched

maybe a flea collar, an at home herpes test

do you sometimes feel guilty, moving on and finding 

happiness? I kinda did but we were both overdue. 

Will D22 come home for the summer? Will D16 get to see

her Bama b/f? Still can't get over her similarities with

lead female in book. I was asked to post a synopsis of it

on my thread. When I do, I will let you know.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I am taking D16 to spend the summer with D22 and the rest if the family...and yes, she will be spending time with her b/f. I'm really looking forward to my trip to Club Med Turks Caicos in June. I'd love to read a synopsis of your book.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> I'm really looking forward to my trip to Club Med Turks Caicos in June.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


lucky schit ..... nice area, don't have the "Southern Humidity"

for $40 a night you can stay at the lake near my place

remember the girls from 38 Special videos of 1980's?

yeah...they're everywhere here


----------



## Pictureless

Chuck71 said:


> so I'm guessing we won't see you in an R thread


Ha ha love this!

No R Thread for us hardcore TAMsters.

We should have t-shirts made. TAM ain't for wusses


----------



## Fenix

Kerfuffle? I wanted to go to that! But life got in the way.

Glad to hear that things are going well.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hi Fenix,

It was indeed Kerfuffle! It was a great day. Watching the crowd was almost as entertaining. 

Thanks...I hope things are going well with you too.


----------



## Chuck71

AFP, I meant to ask awhile back...

I notice you have utilized the 5 Love Languages

what type are you and BOFA?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck, my primary love language is physical touch with acts of service being a close second.

BOFA's are physical touch and quality time.

We satisfy each other's love language. I knew I was starving for mine and had repeatedly expressed that to Raider, but it fell on deaf ears.

When i was doing yardwork on Sunday, D16 brought me a bottle of water...I was proud of her for doing that and told her so. Her response, I thought you would be thirsty and I love you.

I am blessed.


----------



## Chuck71

Two great daughters and one deranged X, still a great trade-off

great example of yardwork, I have a riding mower (mom left) and two acres

I refuse to use it, I push mow it. It is A1 exercise and it lets me know

you're not 21 anymore but you can be for the day. I used to ache all over

until last year (mowing). 

Renewed vigor or absence of the X? Plus it gives me a chance to

escape the world, drift off..run through characters in my book and 'what if'. I never

think about work or females while mowing. X would always rotate two glasses of ice

water, one to drink, second to freeze good for next time in. Unspoken things.....those are the 

hardest to give up. Urology gal has somewhat picked up on it. Similar to when I check her

oil, tires, listen to it when I drive it, change light bulbs....guy stuff...I just do. No thank you

needed but, it is nice. Same thing with her...change sheets (I'd leave same on for a year lol),

wash my smelly socks and tidy whities, clean bathrooms (girl do that, I'm sorry but she

has to love you). What it took years to have with WC and RB, we can have again.

Just takes time. Urology gal knew about the 5 LLs when we met. We did come up 

with a 6th LL, dirty talk after the 11 o'clock news is over


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck, my mother also left me her riding lawn mower and I use it! I get enough exercise. I do, however, use that time to think. Thank you, I do have two great daughters!

I'm still watching BOFA's actions. By no means am I wanting to get into a serious relationship...right now but I don't want to lead her on.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck, my mother also left me her riding lawn mower and I use it! I get enough exercise. I do, however, use that time to think. Thank you, I do have two great daughters!
> 
> I'm still watching BOFA's actions. By no means am I wanting to get into a serious relationship...right now but I don't want to lead her on.


when I have a loaded week, I may pull 60-70 hours or 

if I'm called out into the field, no time to push mow. Mom 

comes over (retired) and uses the riding mower. She gets it 

up to 30 mph and for the life of me, can light a cigarette while

riding it :rofl: 

Hopefully the summer will be a less stressful time now that 

school is almost out. When D16 returns from Bama, and you're

away on biz trips, will RB still have to stay with her?


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

Hi, glad to hear things are looking up for you and your daughters.

May I ask, has D16 ever attended any therapy sessions with you? You mentioned she would, but I don't recall any posts saying how it went. Perhaps if she's wary of individual therapy, your therapist could recommend a peer group for her to attend? Or if she wants to start with something even less "serious", maybe you could get her a book or two on this subject of how to deal with a toxic parent such as Raider?

I know you don't want to be a fixer for women, but when it comes to your daughters, you're the only real parent they have.

Also, have you talked about D22? I started attending therapy at the age of 22 and boy did I need it. Have you perhaps offered to cover the expenses of her going to some sort of therapy?

Best wishes to you and the girls, and I hope that someday Raider will seek the professional psychological help she obviously needs, grow up and do her best to try to make amends.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Hobbes,

D16 is still not wanting to go to therapy...i'm not pushing her but I am still bringing it up. 

I have not thought about D22 going to therapy. I'll bring it up.

Raider has been going to therapy. I hope that she finds happeiness eventually. She won't until she is happy with herself.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Update: This past weekend was interesting. D16 came home on Sat after a visit with Raider and told me that she does not want to visit with her anymore. I asked her why and she said because she will not stop pressuring her into meeting POSOM and demanding that D16 commits to the wedding.

I text Raider: "you need to get it through your thick skull that D16 does not want to meet your piece of $h!t". 

Raider: "You need to mind your own business. If the girls love me then they will include POSOM in their lives because he's an important part of mine. You are as classy as ever".

Me: "Class...like being engaged while you're still married. You are too stupid to see how classless you really are".

Raider: "We aren't married anymore read the Separation Agreement".

Me: "I can't believe how stupid you really are. You and POSOM deserve each other. That being said, the harder you push that piece of $h!t on them the harder they will resist".

D22 gets involved and her and Raider have words. Raider cancels her trip to visit D22 because D22 told her that if she talks about POSOM or the wedding that she is not welcome.

I talk to BOFA....BOFA asks me point blank if I'm ready for a relationship. She asks if I am truly ready to move on past Raider. I am. I have no desire to reconcile but can't help to feel anger for how I was treated. BOFA tells me that POSOM is not the problem, it was Raider. She understands my anger but to move on I need to let it go.

I text Raider the next morning that life is too short and she needs to go spend time with D22. She did go and is down there now. D22 told me that Raider is talking about POSOM and wants the girls to meet him. 

I have to admit, I'm still angry. A part of me still wants to pound his face in. But.....

I feel something with BOFA that I haven't felt in a long time...I just want to be sure that this isn't a rebound relationship. I am taking my time, but we spend a lot of time talking/texting on the phone, go to lunch once or twice a week together and spend a day or two together on the weekends. 

This Sat we are going sailing and on Sun we are going to play volleyball then coming back to my place to grill. D16 will be meeting BOFA for the first time this weekend....a little nervous about that.

I scheduled an IC for next Tues to discuss what's going on. People at work and the girls have noticed that I am much happier...and I am. I miss Raider but I don't miss how she treated me. While I wasn't perfect, I was a good husband/provider/. She told me that she could never ask for a more Romantic guy.

I told Raider that I wanted to talk to her and POSOM when she got back from visiting D22. I hope that its the right choice.

Attached is a picture of me hiking the past weekend with D16.


----------



## LBHmidwest

F an A man! Move forward, talk to raider... welll... never.

BOFA sounds smart. Open up your vulnerability just a little while still being a man. My opinion.


----------



## Fenix

Oh, AFP, for sure it is a rebound relationship. And that's ok. Check out this article. Are Rebound Relationships Doomed? | Nathan Feiles, LCSW

I am in a similar situation and have been doing a ton of thinking on it (maybe too much!  ) Enjoy it, be honest with BOFA, don't make commitments that you may not be able to keep, and take it one day at a time. But don't run scared either. You and I have had similar experiences with our stbxs and it really does a number on you. It feels so good to be with someone who appreciates you, makes you feel desirable and wonderful and with whom you feel a connection. I mean you in the general sense here, btw. It is like "wow...is this what a normal person is like? A normal relationship?" The stuff that my guy says to me blows me away and I think 'what the hell was I doing with the LCB?" It isn't ott sappy stuff either..I think it is just what good people who care about you say.

Anyway, and this is a huge generality and I am sure the guys here will correct me if I am wrong: Guys, when they get physical, often form attachments and fall in love. Women, otoh, make that decision in their head. This is what my sis, who is a MFT therapist, tells me. I see that with my friend. He is falling, and I am allowing myself to let go. I am also choosing to let him be responsible for his feelings. It is def a rebound for both of us, and I have no idea where it is headed and that is ok. We have a strong base of mutual respect, a lot of compatibility, have a ton of fun and whatever happens, I trust I will handle it and be grateful for the experience. We have both been a very soft landing for each other, during our separations/divorces.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thank you for the article Fenix. You're right...it is a rebound relationship. BOFA told me about a rebound relationship that she had previously been in so I think she can see the signs.

I cancelled a date with someone else to spend time with BOFA. BOFA asked me to let her know if I was going to date others. I told her that if I do go out with them then I will tell her.

I have done a lot of reflection and know that I'm not falling in love...yet. I do enjoy her company and the potential is there. But I'll continue to watch her actions and explore my own healing process.


----------



## Pictureless

AFP,

Raider is wrong for trying to force the girls to accept POSOM. But you know that. If she keeps pushing him on them it might drive them away from her.

You can't reason with Raider so I would stop trying. I would continue being honest with the girls; it sounds like they are smart enough to see things for themselves. 

Be prepared: they could reject BOFA too. Have you considered this? 

Speaking of BOFA, if you've been honest with her (and I'm sure you have) then she should know the circumstances. Do not allow her to manipulate you emotionally. Go at your own pace. If she really likes you she will wait at the finish line for you.

I'm routing for you. And your photo...where's the gun show? With those muscles you would have ripped apart POSOM. The turd burglar doesn't know how lucky he is that you didn't stomp him; he doesn't know how cursed he is to be with Raider. 

Stay on the high road. It's serving you well.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Update: This past weekend was interesting. D16 came home on Sat after a visit with Raider and told me that she does not want to visit with her anymore. I asked her why and she said because she will not stop pressuring her into meeting POSOM and demanding that D16 commits to the wedding.
> 
> I text Raider: "you need to get it through your thick skull that D16 does not want to meet your piece of $h!t".
> 
> Raider: "You need to mind your own business. If the girls love me then they will include POSOM in their lives because he's an important part of mine. You are as classy as ever".
> 
> Me: "Class...like being engaged while you're still married. You are too stupid to see how classless you really are".
> 
> Raider: "We aren't married anymore read the Separation Agreement".
> 
> Me: "I can't believe how stupid you really are. You and POSOM deserve each other. That being said, the harder you push that piece of $h!t on them the harder they will resist".
> 
> D22 gets involved and her and Raider have words. Raider cancels her trip to visit D22 because D22 told her that if she talks about POSOM or the wedding that she is not welcome.
> 
> I talk to BOFA....BOFA asks me point blank if I'm ready for a relationship. She asks if I am truly ready to move on past Raider. I am. I have no desire to reconcile but can't help to feel anger for how I was treated. BOFA tells me that POSOM is not the problem, it was Raider. She understands my anger but to move on I need to let it go.
> 
> I text Raider the next morning that life is too short and she needs to go spend time with D22. She did go and is down there now. D22 told me that Raider is talking about POSOM and wants the girls to meet him.
> 
> I have to admit, I'm still angry. A part of me still wants to pound his face in. But.....
> 
> I feel something with BOFA that I haven't felt in a long time...I just want to be sure that this isn't a rebound relationship. I am taking my time, but we spend a lot of time talking/texting on the phone, go to lunch once or twice a week together and spend a day or two together on the weekends.
> 
> This Sat we are going sailing and on Sun we are going to play volleyball then coming back to my place to grill. D16 will be meeting BOFA for the first time this weekend....a little nervous about that.
> 
> I scheduled an IC for next Tues to discuss what's going on. People at work and the girls have noticed that I am much happier...and I am. I miss Raider but I don't miss how she treated me. While I wasn't perfect, I was a good husband/provider/. She told me that she could never ask for a more Romantic guy.
> 
> I told Raider that I wanted to talk to her and POSOM when she got back from visiting D22. I hope that its the right choice.
> 
> Attached is a picture of me hiking the past weekend with D16.


With what all we have previously said about RB....

should anyone be surprised. AFP.... "I'm not okay with where your

treatment of D16 is going" ... nothing more. She wants to engage you.

This form of communication is all she knows. In your case, it

seems D16 and D22 can handle RB.... he!! they have had to

for years. Your daughters are protecting themselves but, 

they are also.... protecting you. AFP what you wrote, you

almost pulled a scene from Chapter 4 out of the book.

When I post the synopsis, I will make sure the scene is in it.

Keep as much of RBs drama away from BOFA as you can.

There's a time when you can bring up all this to BOFA

but as you said, you aren't there yet. Rebound relations

are sometimes overblown. UG is, of course, my rebound.

We're about to pass the year and half mark. Plus...AFP,

if you read my Crossroads II blog, remember my IC and

best friend (female) telling me in '97 this older woman I was

dating was a rebound from my 2nd love of five years. I didn't

agree...my x and I did last 15 yrs. Every relationship can be

different, just as easily as it can be, one in the same. 

If you are not ready to accept RB and Jack Schit, don't.

You still have growth to do. Your D's will have their own time

table too.... when they accept what their mom did, then they 

will entertain idea of maybe meeting him. Just keep in mind....

her putting Jack Schit before you was sorry...... her putting him

before her daughters.... well there is a name for people like that

and I would get banned for using it


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless: I have considered the possiblility that the girls may be reluctant to meet BOFA. 

I know for a fact that I would have destroyed POSOM...and in doing so I would have destroyed myself. I'm better than that.

Thanks for the support. I see that you too are keeping the high ground. We'll get through this. 

I am not and have never been a ladie's man...not that I never had the opportunity...it's just not the type of person I am. I am fiercely loyal. I am enjoying the attention that I am getting. 

I'm emerging from the flames.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Update: This past weekend was interesting. D16 came home on Sat after a visit with Raider and told me that she does not want to visit with her anymore. I asked her why and she said because she will not stop pressuring her into meeting POSOM and demanding that D16 commits to the wedding.
> 
> I text Raider: "you need to get it through your thick skull that D16 does not want to meet your piece of $h!t".
> 
> Raider: "You need to mind your own business. If the girls love me then they will include POSOM in their lives because he's an important part of mine. You are as classy as ever".
> 
> Me: "Class...like being engaged while you're still married. You are too stupid to see how classless you really are".
> 
> Raider: "We aren't married anymore read the Separation Agreement".
> 
> Me: "I can't believe how stupid you really are. You and POSOM deserve each other. That being said, the harder you push that piece of $h!t on them the harder they will resist".
> 
> D22 gets involved and her and Raider have words. Raider cancels her trip to visit D22 because D22 told her that if she talks about POSOM or the wedding that she is not welcome.
> 
> I talk to BOFA....BOFA asks me point blank if I'm ready for a relationship. She asks if I am truly ready to move on past Raider. I am. I have no desire to reconcile but can't help to feel anger for how I was treated. BOFA tells me that POSOM is not the problem, it was Raider. She understands my anger but to move on I need to let it go.
> 
> I text Raider the next morning that life is too short and she needs to go spend time with D22. She did go and is down there now. D22 told me that Raider is talking about POSOM and wants the girls to meet him.
> 
> I have to admit, I'm still angry. A part of me still wants to pound his face in. But.....
> 
> I feel something with BOFA that I haven't felt in a long time...I just want to be sure that this isn't a rebound relationship. I am taking my time, but we spend a lot of time talking/texting on the phone, go to lunch once or twice a week together and spend a day or two together on the weekends.
> 
> This Sat we are going sailing and on Sun we are going to play volleyball then coming back to my place to grill. D16 will be meeting BOFA for the first time this weekend....a little nervous about that.
> 
> I scheduled an IC for next Tues to discuss what's going on. People at work and the girls have noticed that I am much happier...and I am. I miss Raider but I don't miss how she treated me. While I wasn't perfect, I was a good husband/provider/. She told me that she could never ask for a more Romantic guy.
> 
> I told Raider that I wanted to talk to her and POSOM when she got back from visiting D22. I hope that its the right choice.
> 
> Attached is a picture of me hiking the past weekend with D16.


mountains look familiar. Appalachians?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thanks Chuck. I kick myself afterwards when I respond to Raider. She still knows how to push my buttons. Most of the time I don't give her the satisfaction that it does. In the past, I would always apologize even if I did nothing wrong. I can't believe how weak I was.


----------



## Chuck71

All you did was try to appease your wife, I mean, you were

going to have to spend 50 years with her, right? It is sometimes

better to concede the battle (say i'm sorry) to win the war but....

before you know it, too many battles given up. When RB engages you

she knows exactly what to say and can sense when you are

back peddling. Your daughters can smell her BS before you can.

They will under no circumstances sit by and watch her destroy you.

But you have rose above that period. After Jack Schit blows away

like a fart in a whirlwind, RB will still have issues with them. RB thinks

they are mad at her over him. I have a vintage Corvette saying it goes deeper


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

I think at this point you have to be 100% sure it's the right time for D16 to meet BOFA.

Think about it long and hard. Talk to D16, D22, BOFA, IC, us, talk to a female friend who could know what D16 is thinking right now,..., before making the decision. Take into account:
- that D16 might be fed up with new people in her life due to POSOM, and that she might subconsiously/inadvertantly feel towards you/BOFA what she's feeling towards Raider/POSOM. 
- you are D16 safe person - maybe she wants to think/know that it won't change, and you introducing BOFA might signify to her that it's going to the next level, and that might trigger her to think of you as less safe and more like mom/Raider. Or might make her think that she's not the clear n'1 priority. I'm not saying any of that is true, but she might think so.
- you are not sure if it's a rebound relationship or not, or if it is, what does that mean. Until you're fairly certain about the relationship and until the relationship is very stable and secure, I don't think it's ok to introduce partners to kids.
- ask yourself WHY do you want them to officially meet? For who's benefit? Yours? Bofa's? D16's? 
- perhaps D16 isn't vocalizing her objections to meeting BOFA because she's afraid to anger you, especially given the fact how important you are due to her struggles with mom. Maybe she doesn't want to meet her, but is too messed up at the moment to be able or have the courage to say so now.

Having said that, here's my 2 cents:
I think it's too early for D16 to meet her. Considering the turmoil, considering your insecurity & everything, I think it's too soon. I think she doesn't benefit anything or she benefits very little from meeting BOFA now (I'm not saying in the future, I just don't see a pressing reason for her to meet her now), but the risks of negative consequences to meeting BOFA are great. She might resent you, think you're similar to Raider, she might close up, she might feel more insecure and less important, she might wonder why are you introducing her etc.

I don't know - I see a lot of reasons against introducing her NOW, any very few reasons FOR, especially from D16's point of view. So again, for whom's benefit is the introduction for? What are you afraid of if you don't make the meeting happen?

I would strongly urge you to think about this hard. At least postpone it untily you've had to thouroughly talk it over with D16, D22 and your IC.

Best wishes,
Hobbes


----------



## Pictureless

I agree with Hobbes

BOFA will understand. Even more so if she has kids of her own. Waiting is fair for all and it takes pressure off everyone. Besides, what's the rush?

You'll gain some insight about BOFA concerning this. What's good for your kids is what's good for you.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Thank you all for the advice...I talked with D16 and told her that BOFA was coming over after volleyball to cook-out. I told her that she did not have to meet her if she felt uncomfortable and even suggested that maybe I wouldn't do the cook out at the house. D16 said she didn't mind but would not hang out with us.

I know it's tough on the girls. They both want me to date and D22 actually thnks that it may be too soon to date. I would disagree. I knew in Feb that I was ready to move on.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> . I knew in Feb that I was ready to move on.


hind sight and reflection will always tell us a lot


----------



## AFPhoenix

Update:

Raider's visit with D22 started off good but inevitably the drama had to happen...and I somewhat started it.

D16 and I were making pizza and I noticed that the pizza stone and other items were missing. D16 wasn't aware that her mother had taken them. I was a little ticked off. I did find out that I was leaving for a trip 2-6 June requiring Raider to stay with her.

Raider texted me back that she already had plans on the 2nd for POSOM's birthday. She then called. I answered and told her that IAW with the separation agreement that she would stay with D16. Raider, the idiot that she is, told me that's not what she meant when she agreed. I told her that she would stay or I would take her to court and file on fault grounds. She then let loose expletives that would have made a sailor blush and hung up on me.

D22 called and said that they were at dinner and Raider was making a scene in the restaurant and walked out. D22 was furious and told me that she wished that Raider never came to visit and wanted her to leave. D16 was mad at me for making her mother come and visit. I was saddened by these events.

The next day, Raider apologized to D22. I told D22 that it was a good sign because Raider rarely apologizes over anything. But then D22 was ticked again because during lunch with some of her old co-workers, Raider was bragging about POSOM and the wedding. One of Raider's old co-worker questioned the timing on the wedding and could not believe that we were splitting up. Her friend told Raider that she thought she was making a big mistake by leaving me. Raider was furious. : )

BOFA and I went sailing on Sat and played volleyball on Sun. The weekend was fantastic. Besides the fact that my girls are upset, I could not care less about Raider's actions. I'm SO MUCH BETTER OFF without her in my life.

The sun is shining bright here and so is my mood these days. I feel alive and it's fantastic!

I hope all is well with the rest of you TAMers!


----------



## Pictureless

I don't think you started anything; you were just trying to follow the agreement. Remember, Raider's selfish choices and actions are the root cause of all this.

I feel you on D16. Sometimes logic and reason doesn't help deal with emotions no matter how you explain it; and on the other hand if you say something like...well this is how Raider wants things.....that makes it look like your ignoring D16 and putting it all on Raider.

Hopefully someone smarter than me can offer good advice. 

I know this: a hug goes a long way with daughters. Let her know how much you love her and tell her there's only so much you can do considering the circumstances.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Pictureless said:


> I know this: a hug goes a long way with daughters. Let her know how much you love her and tell her there's only so much you can do considering the circumstances.


:iagree:

You are absolutely right. I give D16 a hug almost daily...whether she likes it or not!


----------



## Chuck71

RB doesn't like taking responsibility for her actions. She never had 

to in the past. New awakening for her. Throughout your post, you

mention how enraged she is. Does that really shock you? It

shouldn't. RB has more flames to put out with her daughters

than you. They have called her crap. The idea of putting Jack 

Schit before D16, doesn't surprise you nor D16 / D22. Her fall

from grace will be epic. Are you still keeping all this drama away

from BOFA?


----------



## AFPhoenix

No, BOFA knows all the details. It's good and bad. Good because BOFA has leant her ear and shoulder. I promised to be honest with her. Bad because it's a lot of drama. BOFA, understandably, wants to make sure that I'm ready for a relationship. She thinks that Raider may wake up one day and want me back. I reassure her that there is no way that would ever happen. 

D16 met BOFA for the first time this weekend. It was a short introduction, but it was cordial and not awkward. D16 is having trouble with her boyfriend and that is presenting problems of their own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> No, BOFA knows all the details. It's good and bad. Good because BOFA has leant her ear and shoulder. I promised to be honest with her. Bad because it's a lot of drama. BOFA, understandably, wants to make sure that I'm ready for a relationship. She thinks that Raider may wake up one day and want me back. I reassure her that there is no way that would ever happen.
> 
> D16 met BOFA for the first time this weekend. It was a short introduction, but it was cordial and not awkward. D16 is having trouble with her boyfriend and that is presenting problems of their own.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have to ask, D16 and her guy.... the distance thing? Can't 

coordinate times during the summer to maybe meet? I predict

RB will wake up one day and want you back. They more often

than not do (based on people I have known / known of last 25

years). And almost every time, the one left behind does not take

them back. They learned, there is life out there without the WS.

Actually a better life. I can't see you giving her that chance.

You daughters would flog you anyway :rofl:


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: The distance thing is wearing on their relationship combined with the fact that he's out of High School now and D16 is a Junior.

I wish D16 would make more friends here. She spends a lot of time alone and was talking to her boyfriend on the phone a lot. I'm thankful that he helped her during this difficult time.

You're right, I would never go back to Raider if she came begging on her knees. And you're right, my daughters would flog me if I did take their mother back!


----------



## Chuck71

I had a reply typed out and... puter froze. AFP I should serve a 

warrant on you. You have broken into my house and read the book.

I swear their situation is an exact match to Chapter 7 Post-Paradise

Distance was not really what killed them. The minute things, small

insignificant ones that silently broke away at their "rock foundation"

Can you see why I have a vested interest in your blog? I'm almost

ready to post a pic of Mike and Angie here and ask..... do they look 

like D16 and her b/f. Uncanny......Mike was one year ahead of Angie

in school.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck71 said:


> You have broken into my house and read the book.
> 
> I swear their situation is an exact match to Chapter 7 Post-Paradise
> 
> Distance was not really what killed them. The minute things, small
> 
> insignificant ones that silently broke away at their "rock foundation"
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Funny how life imitates art sometimes....
> 
> Update:
> Raider texted me the other day needing some information inorder for her to trade in the car that we owned jointly.
> 
> I was hestiant to meet because i have not seen her in over 3 months. I asked her if she wanted to meet somewhere, and she said no, she would come by the house.
> 
> I was going to try to play up how happy I am...I'm happy to say that when she came in, I felt nothing. No twinge of pain/regret and no anger....indifference is what I felt.
> 
> I signed the paperwork. Made some small talk. Interesting, she bought a Jeep....POSOM is a car salesmanager at a Jeep dealership...and she's now listening to Country music. D16 made a remark about that when she came back from the drive with Raider. I only smiled...
> 
> I could not care less.


----------



## movinonup

Keep it up Phoenix!!! Your story inspires.


----------



## tom67

Oh God country music?:banghead:


----------



## Chuck71

AFP you do know you are about to graduate from TAM

I have noticed, you post more on other blogs than yours

to me, that is a sign on recovery

you have two daughters who love you and look out for you

you are....... a very rich man

after the D is final........ I do hope you will join me in

Life after Divorce


----------



## GusPolinski

AFPhoenix said:


> Conrad,
> 
> Besides my two daughters and Raider, I have dealt with my nieces and nephews.
> 
> I'm back from my trip to find that Raider took the majority of our house decorations....she had asked to keep a Paris painting but I was surprised about the others. But I don't care, because it's just one other way to move on.
> 
> This was our latest text conversation, which i'm proud of myself despite the setback from the dream.
> 
> Raider: How is the viagra working for you?
> 
> Me: ?
> 
> Raider: I noticed the bottle was gone from your drawer. I was just curious.
> 
> Me: I suppose it's working just fine.
> 
> Raider: It never did work for u
> 
> Me: Things change
> 
> Raider: Yeah right, lol. Your problem will never change
> 
> Me: That's what you think
> 
> Raider: So you can last more than 10 minutes now? Why don't you tell the girls you are sleeping with someone
> 
> Me: Because it wouldn't be the truth
> 
> Raider: I don't care I am happy you are moving on...less I have to deal with u....oh yeah, me and POSOM are engaged
> 
> Me: Congratulations
> 
> Raider: I figured you knew already but I thought I would tell you.
> 
> Me: Yeah, I knew.
> 
> Raider: We are getting married July 4th 2015
> 
> Me: Independence Day
> 
> Raider: Yep. Believe it or not...I do want you to find someone and be very happy.
> 
> Me: Thanks...I will, but it's going to take me time.
> 
> 
> 
> It's hard not to get pulled back down into the drama. She has a way of doing that...but I didn't give her the satisfaction. And so goes my journey.


AFP, I realize that I'm kind of late w/ this commentary, but my only reply to her query regarding the Viagra would have been something along the lines of...

"Didn't need it anymore. Turns out I only ever needed it w/ you."


----------



## Chuck71

GusPolinski said:


> AFP, I realize that I'm kind of late w/ this commentary, but my only reply to her query regarding the Viagra would have been something along the lines of...
> 
> "Didn't need it anymore. Turns out I only ever needed it w/ you."


to stoop to that level, showed her true colors

with her flapping mouth, I'd need 2 Viagra, a fifth and a line of coke


----------



## AFPhoenix

So...I'm taking D16 to Alabama today for my nephew's High School graduation. D22 is celebrating her anniversary and will not be there.

Raider told D16 that the only reason i'm going is to make her look bad. D16 told her, "Dad doesn't have to do anything to make you look bad, you did that yourself".

Sad but true. 

Everyone here, take a moment on Mon to remember the ones that gave their lives defending their country.


----------



## Chuck71

AFP, I know I'm an old fart but, I have a crush on D16 :rofl:

she is 16 going on 29


----------



## AFPhoenix

Update:
The trip back home was short and sweet. No new drama on the front concerning Raider. 

When I returned from my trip latest trip, D16 said that Raider told her that she and POSOM could possibly be moving to San Antonio or Atlanta. 

Of course, according to POSOM, he is wanting to start his own protection service business and wants to open up his own dealership.

I told D16 that time will tell whether POSOM is who he says he is. D16 once again told Raider that she is not interested in meeting POSOM right now...

D16 did spend time with BOFA this weekend while I was getting ready. 

BOFA asked again whether I was planning on dating...I was hesitant and told her that I wanted to make sure I wasn't rushing into a relationship too fast. I have went out with 6 other women but BOFA is the one that I really enjoy spending time with. BOFA told me that she's falling for me...It made me feel good but it scared me at the same time.

After my trip to Turks Caicos in a few weeks I think I will just date BOFA exclusively.

Life is great.


----------



## Fenix

Wondered how you were doing! Glad to hear the update. What did your DD think about the possibility of her mom moving?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hi Fenix!

Thank you. I hope you are doing well too. We still need to have another meetup.

D22 thinks it's a joke and D16 was a little sad.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Update:
> The trip back home was short and sweet. No new drama on the front concerning Raider.
> 
> When I returned from my trip latest trip, D16 said that Raider told her that she and POSOM could possibly be moving to San Antonio or Atlanta.
> 
> Of course, according to POSOM, he is wanting to start his own protection service business and wants to open up his own dealership.
> 
> I told D16 that time will tell whether POSOM is who he says he is. D16 once again told Raider that she is not interested in meeting POSOM right now...
> 
> D16 did spend time with BOFA this weekend while I was getting ready.
> 
> BOFA asked again whether I was planning on dating...I was hesitant and told her that I wanted to make sure I wasn't rushing into a relationship too fast. I have went out with 6 other women but BOFA is the one that I really enjoy spending time with. BOFA told me that she's falling for me...It made me feel good but it scared me at the same time.
> 
> After my trip to Turks Caicos in a few weeks I think I will just date BOFA exclusively.
> 
> Life is great.


protection service? :rofl: one qualification he will lack is

integrity. Well intelligence too but...... mute point

Maybe your X will do like mine and move away! Again... all

about herself and Jack Schit... nothing about the girls.

As for BOFA..... she is telling a fib. She's falling for you is

present tense.... she fell for you.... it was apparent in your writing

quite a while back. Great progress! How is Bama guy and D16?

You know I have to ask


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck,

They are doing ok but I don't like how controlling he is over her. He lives his life down there while she does not have friends or goes out here. We do some things together but even then it's like pulling teeth to get her to do something.

When she comes back this summer things are going to change. If she doesn't do any school functions i'm going to make her get a job. I think it will do her good.

I'm falling for BOFA too but i'm fighting those feelings. It is so nice to have your love languages met. But we've only been dating for a little over 3 months. I may date her exclusively, but I will not propose to her anytime soon. Who would do that?

Oh yeah, Raider and POSOM are engaged....lol


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck,
> 
> They are doing ok but I don't like how controlling he is over her. He lives his life down there while she does not have friends or goes out here. We do some things together but even then it's like pulling teeth to get her to do something.
> 
> When she comes back this summer things are going to change. If she doesn't do any school functions i'm going to make her get a job. I think it will do her good.
> 
> I'm falling for BOFA too but i'm fighting those feelings. It is so nice to have your love languages met. But we've only been dating for a little over 3 months. I may date her exclusively, but I will not propose to her anytime soon. Who would do that?
> 
> Oh yeah, Raider and POSOM are engaged....lol


I agree....... a job would do her good. Value of $ and interacting

with her peers. With BOFA, you want the emotion with a guarantee 

of her not doing you wrong. Something like a contract... or a...

marriage certificate :rofl: Yeah we both saw how those went

Awww Mr n Mz Jack Schit are engaged... I hope you're invited

to the wedding :rofl:

Within six weeks of my X asking me to spend the weekend with

her (son gone), cooking dinner.... she got engaged too. Didn't

stop her from wanting her and I to date earlier this year. The 

engagement has been used for awhile to keep her around.

Jack Schit knows she is smelling his BS wagon. Don't be 

shocked if she puts a play on you. Sounds crazy doesn't it?

Well.....look at her track record!


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Hi Fenix!
> 
> Thank you. I hope you are doing well too. We still need to have another meetup.
> 
> D22 thinks it's a joke and D16 was a little sad.


Yep! There are a few others who might like to join us too! BRB, I am looking at you!!


----------



## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> Chuck,
> 
> They are doing ok but I don't like how controlling he is over her. He lives his life down there while she does not have friends or goes out here. We do some things together but even then it's like pulling teeth to get her to do something.
> 
> When she comes back this summer things are going to change. If she doesn't do any school functions i'm going to make her get a job. I think it will do her good.


Yes. Excellent idea. At 16, she needs to be out living and planning for her future.



> I'm falling for BOFA too but i'm fighting those feelings. It is so nice to have your love languages met. But we've only been dating for a little over 3 months. I may date her exclusively, but I will not propose to her anytime soon. Who would do that?


A crazy person, that's who! But it is scary that you even mentioned it...


----------



## AFPhoenix

Lol, don't worry Fenix. If I ever do decide to re-marry, it will be a long process. I will not give my heart away on a whim.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Daily dose of drama:

I had plans on Fri night with BOFA to go to a charity happy hour in DC. I called D16 before going downtown to make sure that she was ok. Of course, she was on the phone with her boyfriend and ignored my call but told me that she was fine in a text.

Around 830 that night, D16 texted me to ask if I could bring her some Nyquil. I told her that I thought we had some already and that it would take me some time to get back because we had taken the Metro in. She was not running a fever so I told her it would be faster if she went to Walgreen's close to the house.

Raider blasted me with a text calling me selfish and that she would never have left a sick child at home.

I didn't respond but was a little angry at both Raider and D16.

When i got home, I asked D16 why she did that. D16 is angry with me because I am not letting her take her car to Alabama this summer. D16 said she only texted her mom (since she is a nurse) on what she should take. It made me feel better knowing that Raider was trying to create drama. I did not fall into the trap.

Yesterday Raider came to pick up D16 for visitation. I had just returned from the gym and was cleaining and polishing my Harley....shirt off. It felt good to see Raider's eyes give me the up and down. I was pleasant with her and had idle chit chat. I never mentioned the disrespectful text.

This morning Raider texted me Happy Father's Day. I did respond with a thank you.

On the BOFA front...it's official....I am exclusively dating only her. I have been cancelling other dates on a regular basis. It feels good to have a woman admire and respect me...I can see it in her eyes when she looks at me.

Happy Father's Day to all of you dads out there.


----------



## Chuck71

D16 and the car..... SMH..... sounds like the Thanksgiving and 

Christmas fall out for Mike and Angie. From a parent's PoV a 16 y/o

is nowhere near experienced enough to drive that far. But to the 

kids..... yeah. I totally get it. Keep in mind, it was a guilt move

on D16s part and RB got the benefit. But.... all you ever wanted 

was her to be a part of her daughter's lives. Who cares if you are 

seen as the bad guy? You know the truth.... and so do they.

Congrats on BOFA. Still avoid the D talk with her.

I apologize for not having the synopsis posted yet. With my 

uncle's death, the newspaper closing, and an additional death....

things have been really swirling here.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck I'm sorry to hear about your Uncle and the other sad events.

I rarely talk about Raider to BOFA. She was initially concerned that I would take Raider back if she came back to me. At the beginning of all of this, I was willing to work it out. Now I know I deserve better.

In all actuality, I should thank Raider and her POSOM. I'm in a much better place. I deserve it.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hello all...here's an update on my long painful path that isn't as painful any longer.

My vacation to Turks and Caicos was PHENOMENAL. Body, mind, and soul rejuvenation. I met up with a group that adopted me in. I would never have imagined how great it turned out to be. Sailing, snorkeling, volleyball, softball and the attention of several ladies made my trip outstanding. I am attaching a picture of one lady who captured my attention and more importantly, I captured hers.

I can't believe I missed out on this lifestyle while I was in college, but I'm making up for lost time.

Now, upon my return, while I was on vacation, I allowed my ex-sister in-law's husband's family to use my house to tour DC. That turned into my ex-sister in-law and her family also staying at the house. All 17 of them. 

Raider and POSOM picked up some of them at the airport and took them to my house. This somewhat bothered me. I told my brother in law and my sister in law that POSOM was not allowed in my house. 

I took it one step further and sent POSOM a text telling him if he stepped one toe in my house I would have him arrested. Raider texted me back that they would not dis-respect me like that.

Raider and POSOM also went to watch fireworks on the 4th of Jul with the rest of the family. It stung to see POSOM with them in the pictures. The funny thing, my brother in-law said everytime the camera came around, POSOM was trying to "insert" himself in the picture. 

I took some solace that there was never a picture of Raider and POSOM together in any of the pictures. They were somewhat cut-out of the group and were barely talked to. 

I also came back and found that more stuff was removed, mostly souvenirs and I sent her a text to let her know that if one more thing was removed without my permission I would call the police. 

On the BOFA front...i'm still dating her exclusively and she has fallen pretty hard. I love her...but i'm starting to wonder if I jumped the gun and started to date her exclusively too soon. The last thing I want to do is hurt her. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Pictureless

AFPhoenix said:


> On the BOFA front...i'm still dating her exclusively and she has fallen pretty hard. I love her...but i'm starting to wonder if I jumped the gun and started to date her exclusively too soon. The last thing I want to do is hurt her.
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Hmmmm...why is there any doubts if you love her?

BTW, good to hear from you, and I'm glad to read you're doing good.


----------



## manticore

I don't know man, if you have something good think carefully before breaking with her wanting to have more fun with other ladies, you know very well that sometimes after breaking something even if you try to fix it later it never gets to be the same.


----------



## AFPhoenix

good advice Manticore. I swore I would never settle. While I dated for a few months, perhaps it wasn't long enough. BOFA is great, but she does not have her degree....it shouldn't be a deal breaker but it was something I was looking for.


----------



## GusPolinski

Pictureless said:


> Hmmmm...why is there any doubts if you love her?


Uhhh... Maybe I'm off base here, but look at the picture that he posted above.

Just sayin'.


----------



## Chuck71

The only way to conclude you made the right choice about being 

exclusive...... is in hindsight.... and we all know that's 20 /20.


----------



## AFPhoenix

You're right Chuck...about the hindsight

The trip was a HUGE ego boost. I enjoyed my time. BOFA said before I left that she could possibly put something together and go with me. I told her the trip was about me. It was something I needed to do.

I threw my wedding ring off the back of a boat on what was our 23rd wedding anniversary. I was wondering how I was going to feel about that. I did not feel hatred...I felt a little nostalgic but for the most part I was indifferent. 

Besides, I had plenty to take my mind off of that day. But to be honest, I'm much happier.

Life is good.


----------



## Fenix

Does BOFA know you were hooking up on your vacation? That is, assuming you were (after looking at the pic). I would say you jumped too soon. You say you love her but really?

AFP, to be blunt, talking about settling, esp due to lack of a degree and BOFA all in the same sentence show many red flags.

Rebounds are really seductive. They are a huge ego boost, a bit of a safe haven until we get back on our feet and can be just fun. Maybe that is all BOFA was. Have you told her you love her?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Fenix,

I have told BOFA that I love her....and I do. Not only for the understanding she has shown but for the attention she has given me, i.e., my love languages being satisfied. I was starving for a long time for those.

I told BOFA about my trip (excluding some details) but she knows about my new friends, who in turn knows about BOFA.


----------



## Chuck71

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix,
> 
> I have told BOFA that I love her....and I do. Not only for the understanding she has shown but for the attention she has given me, i.e., my love languages being satisfied. I was starving for a long time for those.
> 
> I told BOFA about my trip (excluding some details) but she knows about my new friends, who in turn knows about BOFA.


If I recall you had this trip planned a long time before you
became serious with BOFA. It was scheduled and planned out
well in advance. Maybe this trip was to "get your mind away from
the torment you went through with RB." BOFA's attempt to tag along,
to me, is a red flag. She knew of this for an extended period of time. The trip
was for you. If things were reversed and you tried to go on her trip,
you would be seen as a manipulating control freak. On the trip... you 
appeared to have a nice time. You mingled with females and had pics taken
with some. Nothing wrong with that.... again genders reversed... you 
would be seen as control freak. So here is the 64k question..... on the trip,
did you sleep with any of the gals you met? I'm sure this answer will clear up
many myths. There are many double standards on TAM, some slanted 
against men, some slanted against women. Sorry for thread jack AFP... but
on some threads where the couple is separated, and the W wants the kids to
go see the OM and his kids, it infuriates the H and he lashes out. Then the parade 
of "femi-Nazi's" come in telling him he is a control freak and needs to move on.
On a very familiar thread, same situation, women come to the aid of the H saying
he should know where his children are and who they are with at all times. They
vilify the W for doing such a thing. What's the difference in the two? Kids were 
near same age, wife cheated, had POSOM..... Again, what's the difference in the
two? PM me for the two examples if anyone wishes to look into this further.


----------



## GusPolinski

AFPhoenix said:


> Fenix,
> 
> I have told BOFA that I love her....and I do. Not only for the understanding she has shown but for the attention she has given me, i.e., my love languages being satisfied. I was starving for a long time for those.
> 
> I told BOFA about my trip *(excluding some details)* but she knows about my new friends, who in turn knows about BOFA.


This is concerning... what details did you exclude?


----------



## manticore

Fenix said:


> Does BOFA know you were hooking up on your vacation?





GusPolinski said:


> This is concerning... what details did you exclude?


My GOD I feel the MOB is getting their pitchforks and torches (just kidding), he have not say he did something physical with the girl yet *(yet) *.

take it easy


----------



## Fenix

manticore said:


> My GOD I feel the MOB is getting their pitchforks and torches (just kidding), he have not say he did something physical with the girl yet *(yet) *.
> 
> take it easy


Oh please. No one is getting the pitchforks out. We are all on AFP's side. What we are doing is pointing out the red flags on both sides. BFD. That is what he asked us to do.

If I was BOFA, I'd be chalking it up to rebound and distancing myself.

Chuck, Bofa's ''attempt to tag along'' sounds natural if she believed that they were in love. Now having said that, I don't have feelings either way on that relationship. I have always said that AFP should take it a day at a time and enjoy himself, while being honest. 

So, yeah, you all can get as testy as you want, but if the ILY's were exchanged and there was an understanding of exclusivity then AFP is on a slippery slope.


----------



## Chuck71

trip previously planned, was a "me" trip

had BOFA been in AFPs shoes and had a "girl" trip

and he attempted to tag along, he would be seen as controlling

numerous examples of this on TAM. Having fun on a trip, meeting

new people, having pics taken.... no big deal. I've been on a trip

with my maybe one day future MiL and had pics taken with her,

gave her a hug, doesn't mean I have intent to........

But I agree, if things were made exclusive and AFP did engage in

sexual relations, that is not a good sign. I feel AFP takes his 

commitments seriously, therefore I do not feel he engaged with

other women. But, only he can answer that


----------



## GusPolinski

manticore said:


> My GOD I feel the MOB is getting their pitchforks and torches (just kidding), he have not say he did something physical with the girl yet *(yet) *.
> 
> take it easy


I'm good. It's just that I call 'em like I see 'em.


----------



## AFPhoenix

I do not believe that BOFA was trying to manipulate the situation by wanting to go with me. To be honest, it would have been nice for her to be there.

I could have had sex with a few of the women I met...not bragging at all, but it would have been easy. There were some physical moments with one of the ladies....and I feel terrible about it. I feel bad about it because the week prior I told BOFA that I would date her exclusively. I hate thinking that I cheated on someone...because I did

I had an IC session yesterday. My counselor told me not to tell BOFA all the details...whether I decide to stay with her or not. As a matter of fact, I'm changing my mind about BOFA. Even if she does not have her degree, she is great. She's smart, funny, active and caring.


----------



## Fenix

AFP, you're good people.  I have every confidence that you will figure your path out and walk it well. But I know...this stuff isn't easy!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Hang in there man. There are no easy answers and timing doesn't happen just right all the time. Sometimes it takes something to happen to make us look at someone differently.


----------



## Chuck71

Nothing wrong with BOFA wanting to go

my entire point was some saw it as bad on your part for not letting 

her go, pre-planned, etc

and if genders were reversed..... some would have seen you as a 

control freak


----------



## Fenix

Chuck71 said:


> Nothing wrong with BOFA wanting to go
> 
> my entire point was some saw it as bad on your part for not letting
> 
> her go, pre-planned, etc
> 
> and if genders were reversed..... some would have seen you as a
> 
> control freak


You keep saying that. No one saw it as bad. No one. That is your fabrication *and bias*.


----------



## Chuck71

I'm sorry you feel that way


----------



## GusPolinski

AFPhoenix said:


> I had an IC session yesterday. My counselor told me not to tell BOFA all the details...whether I decide to stay with her or not. As a matter of fact, I'm changing my mind about BOFA. *Even if she does not have her degree, she is great.* She's smart, funny, active and caring.


What is it about her lack of a degree that bothers you? Are you possibly concerned about a limitation in her long-term earning potential?


----------



## AFPhoenix

I value all of your opinions. 

Last night a smoking hot Romanian woman and I started talking at the hotel bar...which turned to dinner then more drinks...I had told her about BOFA and she told me she was also just out of a relationship (she's 31)..anyways, she asked me up for a night cap and...I politely declined. BOFA has been on my mind a lot.

I guess the degree thing is stupid...she is a smart and independent woman.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chuck71

seems temptations appear when the test is needed most


----------



## VFW

You have made great progress and should be proud. STBXW only has the power you allow her to have. Let the girls deal with their mother. Give the girls a hug or sympathetic ear. Injecting yourself usually causes more problems than it fixes. Many times we as men want to fix things, when all they wanted us to do is listen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## AFPhoenix

Update:

Things with D16, soon to be 17, and her boyfriend have not been going well. D16 was really reserved last year, not only because of circumstances of our marriage and how D16 discovered the texts, but because she is somewhat of an introvert. But now I'm learning that her boyfriend is really controlling. D22 and other family has seen this first hand.

I called Raider to have her come over to discuss D16 and the issues. We had a good conversation about what we needed to do. We both agree that perhaps I should go early to pick her up. I've already contacted D16's boyfriend to tell him about my concerns on how controlling he's been.

Raider tried to make some small talk. She noticed my new watch and saw my picture with me and the women in Turks and Caicos. She didn't say anything about the pictures, but I noticed her eyes constantly looking over my shoulder to look at them. 

She asked if the watch was a gift from my lawyer friend. I told her it was a gift i bought myself.

Family members have updated me on Raider and her ultimatums to POSOM that she wanted to be in a house by 1 Sep and she has told him that he should look for a different job. BOFA has told me that Raider may be knocking on my door pretty soon trying to come back. I told BOFA that there is not a snowball chance in HELL that I would ever take her back....

Raider told me during our discussion that she is no longer on effexor and it was messing with her head and she is much clearer now. She went on to tell me how they will be moving into a house soon and is hoping that D16 will come stay with her on weekends.

I have been overanalyzing that conversation. There is still not a snowball chance in HELL i'd take her back, but I actually never thought she would come back. Raider is a very stubborn prideful person and usually never apologizes. I wonder if she's starting to see that the grass is not greener and that I am no longer falling apart.


----------



## HobbesTheTiger

AFPhoenix said:


> I could have had sex with a few of the women I met...not bragging at all, but it would have been easy. There were some physical moments with one of the ladies....and I feel terrible about it. I feel bad about it because the week prior I told BOFA that I would date her exclusively. I hate thinking that I cheated on someone...because I did


Hi!

May I ask what kind of physical moments? And why do you think it's ok to not tell BOFA about it? If you broke the agreement of exclusivity/cheated, doesn't she deserve to know the truth, just like you do/did?

Best wishes to you and the kids!


----------



## Chuck71

Often the case may be, at their age...the moment one starts to

back away or even...not progress (neutral) as the other is, the 

other person becomes controlling. S/he may not even realize this.

Very often occurrence when the two parties involved are teens.

Often time apart or non-communication, in their case, will cure things

if there is something there. But how often does that happen with 

teens? Or adults for that matter?

AFP.... there is no surprise you noticed her reaction. I made mention

a good while back RB would look for an opening to come back. It 

happens a lot more than people think. My X has made three attempts

this year. Yes she is still with Ray Ray... per her FB. RB may be issuing 

outlandish demands upon Jack Schit in hopes he will follow them

(doubtful) or break things off with her (more likely). Then she can run

to you, Mr. Fixer / Mr. Doormat....and everything will be like it was two years ago.

Is that what you would like? I really doubt you would but....that is your

decision. Expect BOFA to be watching your reactions to RB very closely.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck71 said:


> Expect BOFA to be watching your reactions to RB very closely.


Thanks Chuck...you're right...about D16, RB, and BOFA.

BOFA is a little concerned...of course she has no reason to be. I did not/will not try to fix things for Raider any longer. She was complaining about her financial aid, how POSOM's accountant has not given them his tax returns to get pre-approved for a house loan.

I stayed quiet. Raider also told me on the phone the other day that POSOM offered to call D16's boyfriend (long story). Raider said "I told him (Jack) that you (being me) would probably like the pleasure in that". I was angry, but calmly said, that there is nothing pleasurable about the situation.

What i wanted to say is if that POS sticks his nose into another thing I will knock it off.


----------



## Chuck71

You are aware why RB is telling you about her and Jack Schit's 

problems? This guy is a player...I can not see him settling down

period....especially not with a cheater. Players love married women,

they get the snatch and give little or no attention after he hooks her.

Could you imagine D16's response to a R? I would love to be a fly

on the wall. When she told you about him offering to call D16 and 

her b/f...she was wanting to read your reaction. How is the D process

going? Any final date set? If you want to curb her desire of 

telling you about her n posoms problems....ask her when the wedding

is and you would like an invitation.


----------



## AFPhoenix

D16 has officially broken up with her boyfriend. There were many red-flags on his controlling side and my advive and D22's advice often fell on deaf ears. D16 finally realized that he was bad for her.

The D process is going well. I wish I had filed under fault grounds no matter what the cost was. I can officially file on 17 Nov due to VA laws with a minor child. Hopefully the process will take less than a month because of the signed Separation Agreement.

Raider has changed her wedding date three times. It is now scheduled for March. I have thought about showing up with Garth Brooks "Friends in low places" playing loudly. But I'm going to stay away. I will settle with POSOM....i know that for a fact, but I'll wait for the right time. It's not about trying to win her back, it's about the man to man face to face discussion that I need. It's the principle of the matter.


----------



## Chuck71

any updates on RB and Jack Schit? You and BOFA?


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hello all...I thought I would give an update on my journey.

A year ago yesterday is when I found out about Raider and POSOM. This past year has been a difficult year, however, it has been a year of growth. Not very much drama going on with Raider...she's tried but I refuse to get drawn in.

D17: She is doing amazing! Now that she has broken up with her long distance boyfriend, she is more social and is enjoying her Senior year. She does want to move back to Georgia for college but I'm slowyly chipping away at her. 

D17 has stayed the night on a few weekends with Raider and POSOM. It bothered me a little but I do want them to get along. I know all too well about regret regarding lost time with parents. D17 told me that POSOM is annoying and is trying too hard to be funny. 

Raider: A few weeks ago she texted me complaining about my work trips and that she will require D17 to come stay with her while I'm gone. D17 shot that down and i told Raider if it is too much of a hassle I have other people who will check in on her. Raider did not like seeing the pictures of me and BOFA in the house. We have been doing a lot of activities together. Raider told D17 that when she's here, she will put the pictures face down. D17 told her not to touch the pictures.

Raider also told me that she knows that I don't care about her since I'm not going to give her anymore furniture/household items and will not "support" her finishing up her degree. I told her that she signed the agreement and it is not my responsibility to support her any further. She threatened to take me to court and I told her that would be a big mistake. Because this time I will unleash my lawyer. Funny, I haven't heard anymore about that.

BOFA: Simply amazing. She leaves me cards. She constantly touches me, wants to hold hands, and is just a joy to be around. I have fallen for her....head over heels. I told her that I have endured the rain and she is my rainbow. I am putting together a play list of certain songs that go along with some of our dates/times we have enjoyed.

It's funny how so much can change in a year. I was in the darkest pit of hell this time last year. I want to thank all of you for helping me out. This board helped change my life...for the better.


----------



## farsidejunky

Awesome day brother!


----------



## LBHmidwest

Congrats, may only joy lie ahead on your path


----------



## Chuck71

still wants your help financially....shocker huh LOL

guess Jack Schit isn't holding up his "promises" to RB from last year.

I was about where you are now, when I started commenting on your

thread. Don't you want to just kick yourself in the arse for being so 

devastated a year ago? Kind of want to thank her in a way huh.

Glad to hear about D17. Maybe after high school they can re-connect.

It is, in hindsight, better for D17 to enjoy her senior year and not be 

tied down to a long distance thing. Angie broke things off with Mike

after seven months due to constant fighting when they spoke. Mike

began dating Cara at the end of their junior year. They were together

two years, until she went away on a scholarship. Then Angie and Mike

reconnected.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Daily dose of drama:

So...plans have changed for Thanksgiving. In the agreement, I have D17 and Raider has her for Christmas. I was smart enough to put a clause in the agreement that if Raider was unable to attend D22's graduation, I would keep custody during the holidays. Raider and her POSOM are attending the graduation (hope I can contain myself) but will be not staying the entire time.

Plans were to be out of town during Thanksgiving with BOFA's family. I brought the whole scenario up with D17 and she said she wanted to be with me during both holidays. GREAT!

Yesterday I come home and D17 tells me that she will be spending Thanksgiving with Raider because it's only fair. I'm not angry that she wants to spend time with Raider, I'm angry because she committed to something and then backed out...a trend lately. D17 said it was fair and there was another reason but would not tell me.

I called D22 and she told me that Raider told D17 that there were some abnormal findings from Raider's last doctor's visit....I can't believe that Raider would pull this card....no wait, I do believe it.

I have not told D17 that I know...I only told her that I understand.


----------



## AFPhoenix

Hello all....rough week...Raider's grandmother passed away. Her grandmother was essentially mine. She always made me fried green tomatoes and visited everywhere we went. Me and D17 were not able to go. Raider was upset that D17 would not go with her but POSOM went. I would be lying if I said it didn't bother me but it does.

When will the pain stop? I'm doing better but I'm jealous that her POSOM is there with the people that I love and have known for half of my life. I feel like i'm being replaced....and it sucks.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

I think you have to let go of her family. They are her family. If something happens on your side, like a wedding, I am hopeful you will invite your girlfriend instead. 

For most, over time, those bonds will disappear. Your still deeply bonded to her family, but it fades, because soon you will be investing your time and emotions elsewhere. You don't have unlimited time and emotions to spend, so sacrifice will happen.


----------



## Chuck71

Something is up with D17. Will Jack Schit be around D17 Thanksgiving?

D22 may have to be your informer. It's hard when you lose family from 

your spouse. They were your family for twenty-five years. Even though most 

know RB made a huge mistake, they still will be in her corner. Even if they

are neutral... they will still distance you from the family.


----------



## tom67

Chuck71 said:


> Something is up with D17. Will Jack Schit be around D17 Thanksgiving?
> 
> D22 may have to be your informer. It's hard when you lose family from
> 
> your spouse. They were your family for twenty-five years. Even though most
> 
> know RB made a huge mistake, they still will be in her corner. Even if they
> 
> are neutral... they will still distance you from the family.


:iagree::iagree:


----------



## AFPhoenix

Chuck: D17 will be around POSOM on Thanksgiving...that bothers me too. He is also going to be at D22's graduation next month. It will take everything in me not to confront him. That time is about D22....I'm biding my time but I will settle with him...that's for sure.


----------



## Mr.Fisty

Your ex still has to much power over you. Do you focus too much on her actions? 

You can't control them, but you have power over you. 

Just keep focus on where it belongs and you will be fine.


----------



## SamuraiJack

AFPhoenix...
It sounds like you and I have a little in common. 
I have an ex who is (was?) a constant engager. It would usually start over little things. A comment taken wrong or a small quip, that would rapidly escalate into fights. She often used the kids as a window or Segway.
She left me and I have always felt a sense of injustice and a small desire to “grind it in” when she gets things assbackward.
I finally conquered this by realizing that I simply wanted to see her suffer for her mistake and to prove that I was the one who was the more honorable.

The fact is it DOESN’T MATTER anymore.

She made choices that were permanent and life altering for everyone around her and she did it without anybody else’s input. 
She didn’t care what it did to the family and was about as responsible as a two year old when it came to considering the big picture.

Whatever sense of “justice” you feel isn’t being given to you is why you keep connecting with her. 
So do what I did.
Understand that her choices WILL come around to bite her in the behind.
She has already done damage to her relationship with all around her and now she is hanging her happiness on Mr. Used Car Sales. 
Every time you engage her, you come down to her level and she thinks she has a little of you.
What you need to do is practice detachment at its most elegant form.
I had gotten this down for a while but I found that when I let my guard down she would find a way in…so I leave a little tiny guard up…and categorize her as “the woman who takes care of my children every other week so I can pursue the good life.”
Yours will be different, but you need to find a way to classify her as her lowest common denominator and stick to it.
Maid, weekly visitor, whatever.
Just as long as you can stick her in a corner and gloriously go about your life and devote positive time to significant others in your life.
As you focus more positives onto other people you will naturally draw away from her and you will accelerate your healing and get a better sense of self.
You will have more energy to devote to people like BOFA and your daughters.
She will matter less and less and your world will be less likely to be influenced by her. 
Attempts to engage will be met with a gentle but resounding silence.
You retain your peace and her attempts will dwindle because getting no reaction is worse than even getting a negative one. 
Eventually she will move her attempts from you to her next target…and we all know how that will turn out.

And now the icing on the cake…(this is just for you and the little side that wants to see her pay for her actions. It’s a total side bonus of practicing careful detachment, but I have known a few men who liked this benefit.)

You don’t have to be passive aggressive about this, but what you are looking to cultivate is the perception that you wouldn’t see her unless she talked about the kids. That she has no matter in your life except for them.
Stay rational even when she goads you, keep the kids first at all times when dealing with her. Treat her like a nanny…or a ghost who simply doesn’t exist unless she is talking kids.
Because when the time comes for her world to implode….
(and IT WILL…Muahahahahaaaaaaa!!!!!)
…the only thing that can drive that point home even harder is for her to experience the absolute and complete indifference of somebody whom she betrayed.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.
Your revenge will be to be as cold and uncaring about her as to seem alien and unemotional.
This great silence will magnify as she realizes that she burned her own bridges.
Your silence will be deafening. 

Then she will TRULY understand how bad of a mistake she made.

Hopefully by the time this comes to pass, you will have done such a good job separating yourself from her that you can actually pity her as you would any person who has made a mess of things, but retain your detachment.
I am hopeful you won’t do this for magnifying her suffering as the main point, but rather to detach and move on.

But it’s a hell of a bonus prize when it happens.


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## Kevinb

No use in "settling with him". What's the point Mate? It just takes you 2 or more steps back. You have moved on and now focus on that. Your kids will always love you, doesn't matter if he is included in anything with the family. You have come a long way, don't lower yourself...you will regret it in the long run and how will your kids view it... From what I've read they would be proud of their fathers reactions thus far. Keep your dignity and live your life with BOFA, let everything else unfold


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## Chuck71

Always remember, Jack Schit was just out for strange

RB was the one who flagged her "I'm available" sign

if you should be mad at anyone, it should be RB

how are you and BOFA doing?


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## AFPhoenix

Thanks everyone...There was a set back. I told D22 that I really wasn't comfortable with POSOM attending her graduation. D22 told me that she did not want any drama. I told her that it is her and my son in law's choice on who attends their graduation. 

D22 called Raider and told her that she does not want her POSOM at the graduation because she did not want me to be upset or to confront him. Raider fell off the deep end and said if he wasn't invited then she wouldn't go either. Needless to say this really upset D22. Raider called and left a really nasty voicemail telling me to "get over her already". I called Raider back and to my surprise, I was cordial. She explained that they could only stay for 3 days because she has to work and of course he had to get back to his used car sales. I told her that I heard her voicemail and that it was disrespectful and I did not appeciate it and no longer had to listen to it. I warned her that if she raised her voice with me I would end the conversation. 

We talked about their plans and where they would be staying. D17 and I will be staying with D22 and they were getting a hotel and then checking out on her graduation to spend Christmas with her sister on the 21st. She actually asked about BOFA and apparently D17 has told her that I am extremely happy now. Raider seemed to be fishing for my feelings for BOFA...I didn't talk about her. Raider said she was hoping that I have moved on. I was honest with her...I told her that I accepted what has happened but I am still working on moving on...it's only been a year. 

BOFA put things into perspective for me...she is really great about that. First, like many have done on here (thanks Chuck) she reminds me that my anger is misplaced. It is my soon to be ex (I filed for divorce last Fri after one long year) that did not honor her vows. She also said that she would hope that I would want her beside me for important events in my life to include my children's milestones....She's 100% right

I texted D22 and Raider and told them that I didn't mind if POSOM was there. I understood that Raider loves him (bitter to write) and that I promised that there would be no drama. Raider actually texted me apologizing for her behavior.

This past weekend, D17 stayed with Raider. Raider has now lost her job because they would not allow her time off for the graduation. It's really going to hurt when I don't pay her the spousal support in Jan. My lawyer was smart enough to put in the agreement that spousal support would stop in Feb or after 1 year of cohabitation. I'm actually angry that the courts allow spousal support for an adulterous b!tch.

As for me and BOFA...I'm smitten and she is with me as well. I'm spending Thanksgiving with her and her family. I love how I feel when i'm with her...and without her.


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## Chuck71

you're in the draining RB and soaking in BOFA stage. everytime a part of RB

seeps out your pores...there is that one final sting. Been there, actually

going through it myself with UG. But let the process flow. BOFA knows how

hurt you were...and she is there for you. You're in a better position than you 

realize. Stay C, F, D and enjoy the graduation....if Jack Schit tried to

interject himself into anything, D22 will stop his butt cold.


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## Kevinb

That's great to hear Mate, I knew you were a better man than all that crap about confronting him etc. I realise the pain of betrayal is still there but hey look where you are at in your life now. You have a woman who you care about and visa versa your kids love you and you seem to be in a good place ALL AFTER ONLY A YEAR!

I think what you did was right in accepting that they will both be there at the graduation. It's a huge day for your girl and that's what should take priority.

Forget about the used car salesman and raider... Your life is going fine.

All the power to you Bro.
Best Wishes 

Kev


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## AFPhoenix

Thanks Kevin.

Me and D17 leave tomorrow to go back home for D22's graduation. 

Merry Christmas to everyone...except Raider and her POSOM


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## Chuck71

Merry Christmas brother. By comparison, do you feel you are in a better 

"state of mind" now or last Christmas? Enjoy graduation for your girls.

Jack Schit is probably detested by everyone and they would rather he not even show.

But it's RB's fantasy. But if you ask me....it's been no fantasy. Not too far

in the future...RB will understand.... it was really a nightmare. 

Think 1981 Raiders of the Lost Ark...at the end...when the top came off

all pretty at first....then look what happens


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## SamuraiJack

Chuck71 said:


> Think 1981 Raiders of the Lost Ark...at the end...when the top came off
> 
> all pretty at first....then look what happens


What an uncanny description of my marriage! 
:rofl::rofl::rofl:


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## AFPhoenix

Hello all. I thought I would drop in and give an update.

The trip Friday was a trip from hell. It started raining and stuff in the back of my truck started getting wet (forecast didn't call for rain when I left) then D17 was sick and threw up in the truck. To top it off, while talking to D22, I heard Raider's POSOM laughing in the background it really pissed me off.

When I go to the graduation, Raider, POSOM, and his son were sitting with Raider's family. I approached POSOM and....shook his hand. You could only imagine the shocked look on their faces. I could tell that the family was apprehensive when I approached.

During pictures, Raider stood far away from me and I looked at her and told her I wouldn't bite. Everyone laughed. At the after party, I acted like I was indifferent...which really wasn't an act. I did catch Raider looking at me a few times. I could only imagine what was going through their minds.

Today my girls are celebrating Christmas with Raider and Raider's family...with POSOM. To say that I feel sad knowing that this is was once a tradition that I shared with them for many years is an understatement. Raider looked gorgeous yesterday....too bad her heart is a complete opposite. 

I wanted my family to play our annual football game since Raider was once a proffesional football player ( HA HA HA HA) but the old crippled bastard can barely walk. Apparently he was hurt when he fell off a horse and needs a hip replacement. 

I can't believe I was replaced by a broken down old crippled car salesman. 

So today I go off to finish Christmas shopping alone...which is ok. BOFA is flying in later this week.


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## Chuck71

She left a Corvette for a Pinto. With a bad transmission. Wonder how much

of her family still shake their head and think....WTF was RB thinking?

Enjoy the holidays with BOFA.


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## farsidejunky

Great update, AFP. Arriving at a indifference is a wonderful thing. Take care of BOFA and yourself this Christmas season. You both deserve it.


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## the guy

Did you thank the horse....LOL


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## the guy

Chuck71 said:


> She left a Corvette for a Pinto. With a bad transmission. Wonder how much
> 
> of her family still shake their head and think....WTF was RB thinking?
> 
> Enjoy the holidays with BOFA.


Some thing tells me she is still getting ridden.....just not by the pinto with a bad trani.....

You know the saying "once a cheater always a cheater"


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## Chuck71

the guy said:


> Some thing tells me she is still getting ridden.....just not by the pinto with a bad trani.....
> 
> You know the saying "once a cheater always a cheater"


With Jack Schit and RB.... can I buy commitment issues for $200 Alex?


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## brokenbythis

AFPhoenix said:


> No, I haven't read Awareness. I'll give it a try. This experience is worse than when my parents died. At the beginning of all of this, if it wasn't for my daughter, I think I would have checked out...the hard way. Thank God I'm not there anymore.
> 
> Pictureless, I was amazed at how many women are doing this to men.


I'm surprised at how many MEN are doing this to women. My ex husband dumped me and our child to chase "happiness" without a backwards glance and zero remorse. 13 yrs up in smoke and no apology.


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## the guy

I think we all can agree that this infidelity crap isn't gender specific.


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## Chuck71

brokenbythis said:


> I'm surprised at how many MEN are doing this to women. My ex husband dumped me and our child to chase "happiness" without a backwards glance and zero remorse. 13 yrs up in smoke and no apology.


he was a lot more broken than you were, I can say that without reading your story


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## AFPhoenix

It's official...I am a divorced man as of today.

I sent Raider a text telling her that I was sorry for all of the hurt that I ever caused her and offered her my forgiveness and well wishes on their new life.

I sent her fiancee a text offering my forgiveness as well but did not condone the circumstances. I also told him to take care of Raider and to have respect, patience, and eventually love for my girls. I also told him that I will never allow anyone to hurt my girls or they would find out how far my wrath would go.

This has been a long painful path but it has made me stronger. It's amazing how much I have grown. It has taken a lot of therapy, crying, exercise, and love to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. To everyone on here that has helped me, I want to say thank you. To everyone on here looking for help, I can only offer my story. It is not a direct path to peace and happiness but it has led me to the right path. You have to go on your own journey but it can be done. I am now moving to life after divorce. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


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## farsidejunky

Congrats! It is a great day when the word comes down; like a anchor removed from around your neck.

Enjoy your new life, and carry forth with the lessons learned in this ordeal. It happened to you for a reason.


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## Bluebirdie

Congratulations, you are over this nightmare. I just signed last week and felt such a relief after 2 years of separation and being the first one or more living at limbo land. 

We will be ok, we will.


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## Chuck71

are you headed for LaD? If you're leaving TAM, let me know. I want to

give you my #. Dude....you have traveled a long way. I saw a lot of

me in you when you started. Watched you grow, become a more

understanding person. Anytime you feel down n out,

read this entire blog. A year ago you were miserable, I was on cloud nine

this year you're on cloud nine and....well... things eventually even out I guess.

I hope you stick around to give advice to newbys. You are a member of

the Class of 2014! Congratulations brother!


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## Fenix

AFPhoenix said:


> It's official...I am a divorced man as of today.
> 
> I sent Raider a text telling her that I was sorry for all of the hurt that I ever caused her and offered her my forgiveness and well wishes on their new life.
> 
> I sent her fiancee a text offering my forgiveness as well but did not condone the circumstances. I also told him to take care of Raider and to have respect, patience, and eventually love for my girls. I also told him that I will never allow anyone to hurt my girls or they would find out how far my wrath would go.
> 
> This has been a long painful path but it has made me stronger. It's amazing how much I have grown. It has taken a lot of therapy, crying, exercise, and love to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. To everyone on here that has helped me, I want to say thank you. To everyone on here looking for help, I can only offer my story. It is not a direct path to peace and happiness but it has led me to the right path. You have to go on your own journey but it can be done. I am now moving to life after divorce. Everyone have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!


You are a better man* than I! I will never ever send a note like that. 


*course, I am not a dude...


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## AFPhoenix

Fenix, 

I did it for me...not for them. I'll never forget but looking back we were never truly happy. I hope that one day you will give yourself the gift of forgiveness.


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## Fenix

Nope. Forgiveness is over-rated. I have accepted what he did, and I have moved past it as far as possible in the 20 months. That is enough. I am grateful for my new life.


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## manticore

Fenix said:


> Nope. Forgiveness is over-rated. I have accepted what he did, and I have moved past it as far as possible in the 20 months. That is enough. I am grateful for my new life.


There are those who need to forgive to put the last nail, and there are those that need anger to move foward until tehy don't feel it anymore, neither is bad unless it becomes destructive, and yes forgivness can be destructive I have knonw of cases where people keep forgiving their serial cheaters and OM/OW to the point of stupidity.


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