# 2 Tough Questions - Need some Thoughts



## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

So in the past few weeks I have been on here posting different problems within my marriage and there are many.

There was infidelity / verb & emotional abuse.
Over the past week we have had some pretty intense arguments.
Where yet again he doesn't hold back on the hurtful things he says. He tells me now it was in the heated moment but he hasn't apologized for them. Is that weird not to do?

If he truly didn't mean how it came across wouldn't you apologize?
:scratchhead:
Example: "I was checked by the doctors and I am FINE, it is YOU that has the problems with not getting pregnant".

I mean for any female hearing that isn't easy. But it isn't like he hasn't known that is was going to be difficult to get pregnant.

Which brings me to the tough question. Last night there was another argument. Out of the argument came again that he doesn't want to adopt a child. Says it is TOO expensive and we would be in it for $100,000 before we even got the child. I asked he right after - did you look into ALL this?

He says NO - you watch movies on TV and read stories online!! I just sat there stunned not knowing what to say. Thinking WOW - but I can't argue with that cause he is NEVER wrong. But now thinking about it, TV is going to show you the most emotional string tugging they can. Stories online are going to be the same. Not ALL adoption work that way.

So the question: Should I do Marriage Counseling if he is set on not adopting? I also think he has strong feelings against InVitro.
 :scratchhead:

To me I feel it should be something we both look into and determine what to do or what is best. But I feel strongly about trying to have a child no matter what road we decide to go down.

Would love some thoughts on this. I know some say you just can't compromise on children.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

Marriage counseling won't change his mind. If he doesn't want to adopt a child, he doesn't want to adopt a child. 

IMO you should respect his views as much as you want him to respect yours. You two just don't agree on how to go about this. That's the bottom line here.

As for your first question... is it weird not to apologize for hurtful comments? NO. If you mean it there's nothing to apologize for. Heated moment or not. Just because it was said in anger doesn't mean he didn't really feel the way he did.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I didn't read the backstory on previous issues but if you are going to approach the decision of having a child together, you really can't come at it from "I feel strongly about trying to have a child no matter what road we decide to go down." That's a mindset that you've already decided and you are waiting for H to fall in line.

I don't think it would be unusual for him to react poorly to that approach. It doesn't sound like he has the same drive toward having kids as you do, and if the marriage starts focusing on this for long stretches of time, he's bound to build up resentment eventually.

It's fine if you must have kids, but you have to be open to the idea that you can't have kids and H. It might be one or the other.


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## thunderstruck (May 9, 2012)

I don't know the current cost for adoption, but I assume it would be pretty easy for you to get a range. A couple of family members did it through China a few years ago, and they paid somewhere under $25K. 

I think that the two of you need to learn to communicate with each other, plus work through the other issues you mentioned, before having/adopting a child.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks for the thoughts. With everything spinning in my head sometimes I am not sure what to think or how to feel. It is just a mess!!

But overall, I want a child. It doesn't matter to me if the child is adopted I know I would love them just as if they were my own. He on the other hand thinks the worse and made it clear he doesn't want to adopt. The reason it is expensive. Which I don't agree with. I have looked at some information and like you mentioned thunderstuck it was around $25K. I have also seen there is a tax credit for 5k - 8K for adopting. But I mentioned those things to him and he still doesn't.

I do respect his choice and decision. But he doesn't respect mine that said - then we can't be together. He has said NO to InVitro yet but he has excuses of it is "expensive" (18K) and it isn't a guarantee you'll get a child. May have to try multiple times. So he keeps going to the financial side.

I don't want to give him false hope by going to Marriage Counseling if we can't have a plan and both agree on this topic. I feel if we can't communicate on this then why try to fix ALL the other problems, if in the end it will be this one that will end the marriage?

Just a side note - I haven't ever really felt he wanted children (been together 12 years - married almost 8). But this past year he keeps saying he does but only the natural way - cause we can afford that.

I feel where there is a will there is away.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Thunderstuck: I think that the two of you need to learn to communicate with each other, plus work through the other issues you mentioned, before having/adopting a child. 

I completely agree with this and told him last night that learning to communicate needs to happen before having a little one.

I am 31 and the doctors have told me not to wait until 35 to have my own. I feel my time is running out. Partly blame him as I wanted to try when I was 27, both knowing it was going to be a challenge. (he claims he doesn't remember any of this stuff the doctors said). Funny cause he was with - but whatever.

Toying with "not wasting time" on something that just isn't going to work out.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

Sadangel - I just looked through the back story here and it doesn't seem like this guy treats you very well. Why would you want to have a child with this guy?

As far as the issues in this thread, I don't think it is really fair for you to police what is or is not "too expensive" because his opinion is his opinion. It seemed he has moved from a "Not yet" to "OK, but only if it's natural" stance. It does seem to me on some level that he is compromising on this issue.

What it really seems like to me is that you want to say, "I need to have a child sooner rather than later, and I'd really like it to be with you, but if we can't come up with a solid plan very soon, I need to find a new path to get there." 

Might as well put it out there directly if that's how strongly you feel about it. Be honest with him and let him know what he's dealing with, and with luck, he will do the same with you.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Acorn - thanks for summing that up: "I need to have a child sooner rather than later, and I'd really like it to be with you, but if we can't come up with a solid plan very soon, I need to find a new path to get there." 

That made me realize I have planned my new path. Cause in my heart I know if it ended and I was on my own that I would adopt.

Another side note: He keeps saying (excuse) about it being expensive for InVitro and Adopting -- we make together $120K a year. I would think we would be able to afford one or the other.

GOD THIS IS SUCH A MESS.

Breaks my heart that I was SO fearful before getting married when I sat him down and went over the problems the doctors said will probably happen. Then went on to ask him how he felt about InVitro and if he would consider adopting if it got to that point. "I would consider adopting", was his words. Wonder if that was a true answer.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Just read your story. My thoughts are that you need to make your relationship stable BEFORE getting kids, no matter what method you prefer.

I see infidelity, disrespect from both sides and lack of communication skills. Sort this out before you introduce a small innocent child to this world - kids don't solve any problems, they tend to drag any issues to the daylight and clarify your marital problems instead.

First things first IMO.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Angel5112: He has said what you wrote - this came from him when we did a counseling session 3 years ago - "Maybe he does want children, but maybe he is also okay with not having children."

That was the first I heard of his thoughts about children. I have been open and honest about what I have wanted regarding children from the start. 

I may come across on here that I am trying to change his mind but I am truly not. I want him to be honest with me and not string me along. I feel it is what he has done in the past few years - ignoring the talks about having children, then having excuses and now even more excuses. I really want him to be honest with me. But I don't believe he will cause he doesn't want to loose me.

But I don't see it any other way. It maybe selfish of me to want a child but it is something that I have always wanted to experience. It hurts me that because I can't have one and it hasn't happened that I distance myself for my friends that have little ones cause I just emotionally can't do it. It hurts more when my friends explain how it changed them and how they couldn't imagine not having kids and I feel the same way.

I am willing to forgive the Infidelity and work through the abuse.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Another side note: He keeps saying (excuse) about it being expensive for InVitro and Adopting -- we make together $120K a year. I would think we would be able to afford one or the other.


He's said he wants a child, but naturally. He doesn't want to spend money to have a baby. Not the 'extra' money anyway, because having a family is expensive either way.

The question is, what are you going to do with this information? His mind is made up. Call it an excuse or not, this is the stance he's taken.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

A Bit Much said:


> He's said he wants a child, but naturally. He doesn't want to spend money to have a baby. Not the 'extra' money anyway, because having a family is expensive either way.
> 
> The question is, what are you going to do with this information? His mind is made up. Call it an excuse or not, this is the stance he's taken.


I agree with this.

If you choose to see the good in your husband, hear this: "I know children are important to you, so I will try to have kids." That does not seem like an excuse to me. It sounds like someone trying to compromise.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Of course it is a hard decision to walk away from the marriage - granted it has its share of problems.

But I fear I will resent him in the end for not trying everything possible to have a child. Which will ultimately end our marriage.
I completely understand I can't make him change his mind and that if by chance that happened he would resent myself and the child also.
Which is not at all what I want.

I would have believe your comment Acorn 5 years ago - "I know children are important to you, so I will try to have kids." But he was resistant to even talk about it, let alone start trying. We didn't start trying until almost 2 years ago. And I understand trying and it might just take me longer to get pregnant. But he became distant and then tells me after a year that he has a low sex drive. Lovely that you couldn't talk to your wife about that since that would cause a concern in trying to get pregnant. I just don't understand.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Angel5112 - can you explain more about what you mean for an ultimatum?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

sad_angel said:


> Of course it is a hard decision to walk away from the marriage - granted it has its share of problems.
> 
> But I fear I will resent him in the end for not trying everything possible to have a child. Which will ultimately end our marriage.
> I completely understand I can't make him change his mind and that if by chance that happened he would resent myself and the child also.
> ...


Your marriage will NOT get less of share of problems with a child in it. On the contrary. Solve your problems first, otherwise you may as well walk a way to begin with. Think about the child who doesn't get to choose her parents and family.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Fertility Issues are:

I have Polycystic Ovary Syndrome (PCOS). They diagnosed when I was 23-24.
A year and a half away I had an HSG cause I started to go 3 months without a period. They found that my left side Fallopian tube is blocked.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Cpacan - I truly understand what you said. I know the big issue here is having a child. But I do want to fix our other issues before bringing a child into this a family that already has issues. I even told my husband that.

Over all then the question becomes: Do we fix the issues we have or just walk away, because we wont be able to compromise on the child issue?

Which there is no easy answer on that question I suppose.

I do feel selfish for wanting something so bad. Angry at him for not being honest and saying that I am not thinking "logically" about the situation. Cause ONLY HIS logic is correct!

I have friends that make 60K a year and have 2 kids. We make double that!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

sad_angel said:


> Cpacan - I truly understand what you said. I know the big issue here is having a child. But I do want to fix our other issues before bringing a child into this a family that already has issues. I even told my husband that.
> 
> Over all then the question becomes: Do we fix the issues we have or just walk away, because we wont be able to compromise on the child issue?
> 
> ...



It isn't the money. Having a child is a lifetime investment. It could very well be that he's not 100% on board because of the other problems you two have OUTSIDE of the fertility issue. Why would anyone want to bring a child into a broken relationship? Maybe he's not communicating it in the best way and is instead being passive aggressive about his stance, but the truth is, your marriage may not be strong enough to survive all the ups and downs a child will bring... let alone the PROCESS of having one with invitro, and/or adoption.

It's time to really look at your marriage from the inside out. Can it realisically hold solid with a child? Children don't bond you together and it would be a mistake to think so.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

sad_angel said:


> Cpacan - I truly understand what you said. I know the big issue here is having a child. But I do want to fix our other issues before bringing a child into this a family that already has issues. I even told my husband that.
> 
> Over all then the question becomes: Do we fix the issues we have or just walk away, because we wont be able to compromise on the child issue?
> 
> ...


Sad,

If you do work on the communication, can I recommend a couple of things?

1) Let the "it's not that much money" angle go. Seriously. At best he is going to think that he is a lousy provider that he can't produce enough to make you happy, and at worst, that he is simply a checkbook on your journey to have a child no matter what. It's not going to help at all.

2) He has provided you with some angle to get your goal - trying for a child naturally. You have a baseline now. Now the issue for him is cost. Can you provide him some angle to not make him feel like he is overspending beyond what he is comfortable with? Maybe you could get a second job for a while to "earn" the cost, maybe you could agree to cut some luxuries... anything? He's screaming about cost. Recognize and validate it as a legitimate issue. Get him on your side.


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## This is me (May 4, 2011)

I can relate to this issue. When I entered our marriage 18 years ago, I only assumed we would have children the natural way. 

We could not get pregnant which we found out many years later was a defect she had in the womb. When she detached from me emotionally about a year and a half ago, and we went to counseling at a couple of different ones, one of the first questions asked was why we didn't have children and how important this was to her.

I don't think most guys realize how important this is to the woman and at the same time most women likely do not see this may not be a top priority to guys.

I think MC might help sort through this before if becomes a resentment that poisons the marriage.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Acorn - I could let most of part 1 that you wrote. I do understand he agreed to have them naturally and in my eyes at least has given it 50% effort. There are reasons for me saying that.
1) He tries to avoid the talking about the situation
2) He isn't as passionate / supportive about trying naturally, other then doing the act. It is extremely hard for me to know DEEP DOWN it is my fault it isn't happening. But he isn't supportive or confronting at all.

With regards to the second you wrote about. YES there ALWAYS things that can be given up. But at times he comes across as I need to give up more cause it is what I want. At this point I feel I am down to giving up the marriage for what I want!!

He pays for a lawn service that sprays the weeds $54 each time they come out. I told him to cancel it we don't need it. Hasn't done that.
We had a Housewarming party last year and friends of his put it in his ear about having a "yearly" party. He brought that up to me and I said is it the best thing to spend money on at this point. He says "but it was a good time - everyone had fun". Great - I don't care - you complain about the bills, how about we pay those off first.

By the way the bills are: TV, receiver (cause he wanted the bigger TV), new bedroom set (cause he didn't want the mattress on the floor), and then I found recently that he LOVES to charge his lunch everyday when he goes out to eat to his credit card. For one he has his debit card - why pay interest on a cheeseburger!! 

Now I know I am complaining about his spending. I am no angel either. But I try my hardest not to spend money needlessly. I am the one who makes and effort to put $50 - $100 into our savings account whenever I can. He has NEVER gone online and clicked the few buttons to add more money in there.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> 1) He tries to avoid the talking about the situation
> 2) He isn't as passionate / supportive about trying naturally, other then doing the act.


With everything he's showing you, you aren't getting the message. This man does not want children with you. I'm not sure he even wants the marriage at this point, not with everything that's happened.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

I mentioned surrogacy and he went straight to "its an expense".

I don't mean to keep going on on the subject. There are other things he has said and been quick to throw out there and it is good not giving every detail here. But in all the comments I do see that what I have been feeling from him is correct and what he's been saying isn't.

It is hard when we both seem to have the same dreams and wants and when one changes. Then lies to a point to keep the other person.
A controlling part of him.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I really think if you are the one that wants the child so badly that you are considering jettisoning the marriage to achieve it, you should a lot less concerned with the interest rate on his cheeseburgers and instead be happily and willingly finding ways to make things work on your end.

You are going to have to sacrifice significantly more if you take the single mom, no child support route that adoption represents. Something to think about.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

Acorn:

I am completely aware of what it will take to be a single mom, I really am. I was using the example of him charging cheeseburgers as an example of him being the one who is the money spender. Honestly, I have said nothing to him about what I seen on his charge card. Just annoying that he has the debt card which we have the money in there for his lunch. Also, I am not the one that had to file for Bankruptcy. So it is just frustrating that ALL the problems of this relationship are supposedly MY FAULT.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on the subject!


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

All the problems in this relationship aren't your fault alone. You both play a role.

Just think about what you just said also... "ALL the problems of this relationship"...

I ask you again, why would you want to bring a child into that (all the problems)? How is that fair to an innocent child? Please explain your thoughts on what's best for the child... not just you.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

That has become my big question at this point. Based on ALL the problems and the blame he has put on me, I think I am ready to move on. I don't know if I am looking for reasons to move on or what exactly I am holding onto. I will always care for my H, but I just don't love him how I once did. Which he blames me for not forgiving the cheating. 

I DON'T want to bring a child into this dysfunctional relationship. I know me wanting a child is only natural and VERY important to me. I just am questioning if I am willing to stay in this marriage to try and make it work knowing he isn't on the same page with me about the children issue. 

Why work on the marriage to fix it, if in the end there will be resentment and hard feelings = dissatisfied and unhappy for both of us.


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## A Bit Much (Sep 14, 2011)

> Why work on the marriage to fix it, if in the end there will be resentment and hard feelings = dissatisfied and unhappy for both of us.


If there's resentment and hard feelings, dissatisfaction and unhappiness, then nothing has been 'fixed'.

The end result of working on and fixing your broken marriage is to make it whole again. You both have to want to be whole again. The baby conversation has to be shelved until that is acheived.

What does he want? His actions contradict a man that wants to be all in. The cheating, the abuse... that's not a man that is committed to his marriage. You don't do those things if you want a loving and happy relationship. Then there's you, and your acceptance of his ill behavior. What are you holding onto here? And why? 

Having a baby should be the very last thing on your mind. You don't have an environment in which to welcome such a gift. Be honest with yourself here.


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

sad_angel said:


> That has become my big question at this point. Based on ALL the problems and the blame he has put on me, I think I am ready to move on. I don't know if I am looking for reasons to move on or what exactly I am holding onto. I will always care for my H, but I just don't love him how I once did. Which he blames me for not forgiving the cheating.
> 
> I DON'T want to bring a child into this dysfunctional relationship. I know me wanting a child is only natural and VERY important to me. I just am questioning if I am willing to stay in this marriage to try and make it work knowing he isn't on the same page with me about the children issue.
> 
> Why work on the marriage to fix it, if in the end there will be resentment and hard feelings = dissatisfied and unhappy for both of us.


This is a chicken versus egg discussion - matter of opinion and beliefs. From my POV you just can't bring a little child into a dysfunctional relationship, it would be so wrong, and it certainly won't solve anything.

Fix your marriage together, then have the discussion about kids, and then make the kids 

You may have the discussion about kids, but I would highly recommend that you keep it a theoretical discussion a the time being.

Thousands of kids are raised in unstable homes, but I hate it when I hear about it - especially if it could have been prevented.


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## sad_angel (Jul 10, 2012)

To All that have replied:

I thank you all for you POV on the situation. Sorry I haven't been on here for a little bit. We are currently doing MC. I guess it is going ok, at this point not really what I expected. But then again not really sure what I expected. It is good to get things out in the open.

I completely agree with the comments about not having a child until we are fixed, until the marriage is fixed. I SO agree!!

Which brings me to what I noticed in counseling and now have seen at home:
So over all my husband thinks that giving me a child is going to FIX everything and make up for what he has done (affair / abuse).

I explained to him that I don't want to have a child with him at this point until we have everything in order. I am seeing he doesn't see that. I think he see's oh I might loose her let me give her what she wants and she will stay. Which is making me more frustrated that his words "I will try" again mean nothing!

Some thoughts on any other way he is thinking...or am I pretty dead on with the feeling I am getting?


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

One thing to keep in mind is that you are ahead of him analysis-wise on the marriage. He's in MC and it will take time for him to catch up to you.

One of your biggest issues was that you wanted a kid sooner than later - and now he's on board with that. Maybe not for the right reasons, but it is progress. I'd be viewing that as a positive at this point, not a negative.

Change takes time.


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