# My wife wants a 4th baby after getting a vasectomy



## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

My wife and I (both 38 years old) have been married for 8 years now and we have 3 amazing kids (all under the age of 8). We really could not ask for more. Like any couple, we have gone through our ups and downs throughout our marriage. We made a point to see a counselor through our ups and downs just so that we have someone to talk to (like a 3rd party).

In terms of children, our original plan was to have back-to-back kids which I must admit was tough at first but we managed to work things out over the years.

About 4 years ago, my wife shared with me her dream of having a 3rd child. It took me a long time to come around and agree to this. We talked, argued, went to see a counselor. After some soul searching, I decided to compromise and decided to say yes to baby number 3. Part of the agreement was to stop after our 3rd and for me to get a vasectomy. Naturally she was ecstatic and promised me the world! Once our 3rd was about 6 months old, with the consent of the wife and as agreed, I went ahead to get the vasectomy. Fast forward to 3 years later, we have an amazing family and no regrets about having a 3rd. She is an amazing little girl.

Recently my wife shared with me her dream / desire to have a 4th. She asked me if I could make the ultimate sacrifice to reverse the vasectomy, try for a baby and get a vasectomy again. I have been going back and forth for over a month now with my wife about this. Clearly we have different views on this matter and I frankly feel trapped. Unless I say yes (she refers to as having an open mind and trying), there is no way out of this difference.

She continues to tell me this is her dream and I am the roadblock to that. She is disappointed in me that I am not even trying. Personally, I feel that I compromised with having a third child and now she is moving the goal post on me. Everything she is promising and telling me now is a recurring pattern from the time we were discussing about having our 3rd child. She is asking me to make the ultimate sacrifice, again she said the same thing the last time around. How do I know this will not stop after the 4th? She keeps making me all these promises which I have heard before. I went from the guy that made the ultimate sacrifice with having our 3rd (top of the mountain) to the negative/no-can-do person blocking her dream and that I do not love her enough to pursue this dream (I am at the bottom of the mountain all of sudden... How can this be???).

I am feeling very frustrated with the situation. All I want is my wife, back on the path we were on and enjoy the family/life we have now. Also to continue to work on our marriage and deal with all the ups/down coming our way raising our amazing three children.

Up to this point, I have listened to her, we exchanged views many times and we even went to see the doctor to inquire about the reversal of the vasectomy. The bottom line is, I do not want another child, which I have made clear to my wife. I would like her to honor her word/promise to stop after our 3rd child and I feel that it is her turn to compromise and make the sacrifice just like I had to dig deep to come around to change my mind 4 years ago. I understand she is not feeling this way on purpose and I would like to support her 100% to overcome this together. At this point, we are both just hitting a brick wall and I am so lost, not knowing what to do. I am getting the silent treatment now and she is really upset with me. I just don’t understand why I am in this position? Doesn’t her word/promise from 4 years ago mean anything anymore? I have shared with my reasons for not wanting another child and reminded her about what we agreed on. She seems to think people are entitled to change their mind and I am fine with that. It just baffles me that she can be so casual about going back on her word and I’m all of a sudden the bad guy. At the same time, I think we need to address this void she feels. Clearly, if we were to have a 4th child, this desire of wanting another baby will not go away. Everything I’ve said to her makes logical sense to me but she just doesn’t seem to see my point of view. Or perhaps she is simply blinded by wanting another baby?

Any advice or insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

Dan


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

We had a similar set of discussions - like you I was happy with two kids - and didn't want three. 

Like you I agreed to a third followed by a vasectomy. We had our third and I got my vasectomy. 

A few years later M2 mentioned wanting a fourth. I just hugged her and told her that no matter how many kids we had, there would always be a 'last child'. And I understood how much she loves babies and very young children - but a fourth wouldn't work for me.

I THEN SAID: If you would like to look into being a foster mom for a child, I would be open to that. But I'm not really looking to adopt. 

Maybe for now, the best move is for you to simply acknowledge that she is sad/angry and tell her that you feel bad for her. 

When she pushes you to DO WHAT SHE WANTS - best to stick with: I'm sorry this isn't something I'm willing to do. 

And don't get into WHY. Don't reference your agreement or her commitment. Just say - I'm just not willing to. 

Keep that part of the convo very short. 

-------
On a separate note, you implied that your wife made some promises related to a fourth child. What were those promises and has she kept them? 





DanOz123 said:


> My wife and I (both 38 years old) have been married for 8 years now and we have 3 amazing kids (all under the age of 8). We really could not ask for more. Like any couple, we have gone through our ups and downs throughout our marriage. We made a point to see a counselor through our ups and downs just so that we have someone to talk to (like a 3rd party).
> 
> In terms of children, our original plan was to have back-to-back kids which I must admit was tough at first but we managed to work things out over the years.
> 
> ...


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

sometimes baby fever hits. usually followed immediately by the birth of child to a friend or relative or someone admired. I've seen it a million times, like falling dominoes. Or some women just really love being pregnant/infants and the fever hits on a schedule. For instance if your kids were all 2 years apart, then you can extrapolate the baby fever to occur every 2 years.

Is there somewhere with babies she can visit or volunteer? (MOPS, Churches, NICU) can she babysit someone else's infant for a day or two? do you know anyone with a puppy? Sometimes (seriously) the baby fever can be cured with a temporary replacement baby. At my old church, the baby fever ladies would sign up like clockwork to volunteer in the infant nursery, bam, pregnancy averted. if she could sign up for a mom's playdate group for your younger ones, there will invariably be a few babies of the younger sibling variety.

so that's my advice. she needs to hold a baby (or babies), it fulfills that weird primal urge. Give it a little time. see if she simply stops talking about it. Don't point out why you are doing this. This is not the time to be all, well honey, you wanted a baby. here's Suzy's, she said you could watch it today. This is a time for subtlety. See if you can get a friend to suggest it to her.
i know. it sounds nutty. reproduction of the species is kind of a crazy urge. She may not even realize that this is unfair if that is not her usual stance, because biology. blinded, like you said.

i think you are justified in standing your ground. you compromised on the 3rd child, where is the compromise on the 4th? no give, all take.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

She is breaking a promise to you, stick to your guns, no more kids. You will both have your hands full bringing them up, tell her if she wants she do fostering when kids get older. That way you get to help kids but are not permanently responsible.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

You need to take your wife to a psychologist. She is trying to fill a void in her life by having more babies. No, her wanting a 4th baby will not stop there. Her mindset will continue in this path as there is something else that she wants to be filled.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

I hope that you are able to work things out with your wife. I think 3 kids these days is adequate in a family. 

FTR, I am totally child free and come from a large family of 6 kids. Parents do not get awarded more hours in a day or even more energy just simply because they have more kids. And I am sure that you know, your boss is not going to give you more money in your paycheck for those kids.

So yes, I have bad memories of being told by my parents how busy they are and how selfish I am to expect more from them. Mind you my mother was a SAHM. My father was a workaholic but now I know a lot of his money went back to his father as --even my father said this - he was trying to buy his love.

I have a friend who, I suspect, had seen herself a mother earth type. By the time they got to the 4th child, I guess it dawned on her that dishes don't wash themselves and beds don't change their own linen. She also admitted to me that there was hell to pay when she promised her children things that she knew she could not afford at the moment.

I also don't like the idea that parents can turn their older kids in to "para adults." That is, parents give them the adult responsibilities of taking care of the younger ones while they have absolutely no authority to make the younger ones behave. 

If parents really wanted to be as fair to each child as possible, they will not turn the older ones into unpaid housekeepers and nannies..... and to top it up, cite how lucky they are that they even have a roof over their head.

I remember someone telling me about his daughter's school and how it had a "homework club." That is, that students could choose to stay and do their homework before going home. I thought that was such a good idea because even a student from a middle class family could be saddled with so much housework from their parents, that they will never be able to stand a chance next to a classmate from a smaller family or someone lucky enough to be the last child in the family.

If anything, don't let your wife watch that sitcom with Gaffigan. It's about a couple with 5 kids under 10 in a 2 bedroom apartment in Manhattan. Neat, clean, harmonious....... we all know that is a magic trick.


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

MEM11363 - We haven't had a fourth yet. Basically the promises she is making me now to convince me is the same as when we were discussing having a 3rd. It just seems like a recurring pattern and there is a deeper void that needs to be addressed. How can I believe her or trust her if she can go back on her word and say people are entitled to change their mind?

sixty-eight - All the points you make I agree with and I told her already. She keeps saying I'm not trying and not open minded.

aine - I agree with you. That's where my frustration stems from. Just how easily she can back out of a promise and when I don't agree with having a 4th, I'm the "bad guy" in the picture.

NextTimeAround - Thanks for your input. I just think she is not being realistic about this and not thinking logically. That's why I say she is blinded. Perhaps I should have been more firm by saying no at the very beginning instead of trying to be the understanding husband. I cannot believe it's got to this stage after everything she promised me. I hope we can move forward and go back to the life we had. I question myself whether I could have done anything better to avoid all this...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Dan, maybe you can stress the fairness to the children that you two already have.

that would be interesting if she can put the needs of others first. Being selfless is what being a mother is all about.


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

You make a good point and believe me I've told her so many times. She keeps saying we can make it work and the older kids will become more independent, thus giving us more time with the 4th and us as a couple.

I was really hoping this time around she would be the one that compromises. Maybe I set up myself to fail by setting these expectations. This has really been a learning experience for me!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

DanOz123 said:


> You make a good point and believe me I've told her so many times. *She keeps saying we can make it work and the older kids will become more independent, thus giving us more time with the 4th and us as a couple.*
> 
> I was really hoping this time around she would be the one that compromises. Maybe I set up myself to fail by setting these expectations. This has really been a learning experience for me!


*In the words of ChumpLady, let's try the Universal Bull Sh!t Translator:*

By independent I (your wife) mean that the older kids can finally do the housework I don't like to do. 

People that you and I meet can marvel at how I am a mother of 4 (or 5 or 6 or how many additional times I can force your hand, hubby). 

And of course, they will never know how much I pressured my older children to forgo sports or other after school activities because I needed them to be home as soon as possible so that they can do my job.

Plus, with public sports charging more for these extras, with more and more children we would not be able to afford them....... unless my husband picks up the slack.

Too bad in the western world, children have to go to school. And just as bad, they are expected to be there for a minimum number of hours each day. IF the CPS wouldn't hassle us, I might be nice enough to let the boys go for the day, but the daughter has to be back here by lunch to do all this housework that, when done, makes me look like a perfect housewife and mother.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Your wife giving you the silent treatment is childish in itself. Tell her you already have 4 children and aren't the least bit interested in adding another while your oldest is going through this tantrum stage.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Well, this is not a conventional solution at all, but here goes. I know of someone who was in this situation and her solution, which fell into her lap, was surrogacy for one of her BFFs. That child is now 8 and she's like an aunt to the child who knows all about it, as much is possible to understand at age 8. All one big happy family and she got her void/need MORE than filled by her gift to her BFF. 

Of course it takes a very special kind of person to be able to do all that.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You could tell your wife every time she asks for a 4th child that you're still waiting for your wife to appear.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Can she even have a baby?
I know I had no problem becoming pregnant at age 38 but many women lose their fertility by then.
Maybe she could have testing to see how viable a pregnancy would be on her part.
And wow, I can't imagine, beyond just the vasectomy, its a given for her that the logistics and funds, resources and energy for another child are just available on a whim, hope, desire. And the belief that everything will go just fine, no problems with the pregnancy, no problems with the child due to her age. Just wow. Three beautiful kids and stability in life, she's been so lucky...and she's willing to risk it all? Makes me want to cry just thinking about it.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> Can she even have a baby?
> I know I had no problem becoming pregnant at age 38 but many women lose their fertility by then.
> Maybe she could have testing to see how viable a pregnancy would be on her part.
> And wow, I can't imagine, beyond just the vasectomy, its a given for her that the logistics and funds, resources and energy for another child are just available on a whim, hope, desire. And the belief that everything will go just fine, no problems with the pregnancy, no problems with the child due to her age. Just wow. Three beautiful kids and stability in life, she's been so lucky...and she's willing to risk it all? Makes me want to cry just thinking about it.


Yeah... I lost my gravy train at 23 in my first marriage. Now I'm almost 35 and no children yet because of wasted years with my ex H. I'd probably have 3 now if I'd learned to assert my boundaries when I was younger, yet I am not bitter. 

I just can't fathom why a 4th is necessary, but I've never had a first, so I really have no valid opinion on the matter. My only concern is now they'd have to divide their attention 5 ways instead of 4....how does that leave quality time for each other?


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

A mum on our PTA had a similar situation. She had 2 beautiful kids, her h said no more. She insisted, her religion etc. Lied about being on birth control and got pregnant. Her husband became so mad. Then, the boy was born with all sorts of neurological disorders, so now, it's all her fault. Husband is still angry after 16 years, their marriage is so messed up. I am surprised they are still together.

We planned our first child. It took about 3years to get pregnant. Then, surprise! I was 3 months pregnant on my daughter's first birthday. Our son came and that changed everything in our lives. He was just a sick baby, and a sick toddler and then, diagnosed with a learning disability. It changed all our plans. We love our son. He is an amazing person, who never gives up. He fills our lives with joy and laughter. 

Your wife has three beautiful, healthy children. She should be happy and contented. There are no guarantees, that, a fourth child will come with no complications. 

She should find something else to fill her void. Don't give in. Have a serious talk and let her know, a new baby is only going to make her happy for a while. Then, what, a 5th child?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

It seems like this is all about her and your needs don't matter. That says a lot about the dynamic of your marriage. .... I'd bet she's selfish in other ways too.

I wouldn't go for this. Besides, vasectomy reversals are often unsuccessful.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your problem is you are trying to convince her of your opinion.
You have to just say that you are unwiling to reverse your vasectomy.
You are not roadblocking her from having a fourth child. She can always leave you and get another child if the fourth child is more important than the 3 children and husband she already has.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I'm surprised there aren't more comments about the way your wife is handling this. Giving you the silent treatment over something you both agreed to is a huge problem. Does she use this with you in other matters?

Also, this is not just about changing her mind and having a fourth child. This is first about REVERSING a vasectomy you both agreed to. She wants you to reverse a vasectomy, get her pregnant, and then get another vasectomy??

I would not want to have another child with someone who cared so little about how any of this affected me.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Mem's advice is perfect. 

Discussion on this will only enbolden her.

If she persists?

"No." Firmly but calmly.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

She is being incredibly selfish.. Just tell her this is the deal you BOTH made and you're sticking to it.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

How is your wife as a mother to the children that you have now .... that is, before she turns them into underage cleaners and nannies.

Have a look at this thread, it may help you figure out what your wife is missing: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies...n-reason-why-mother-prefers-one-daughter.html


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

4 kids is mother effing HARD! No matter if they are close in age or spread apart. I thought 3 was hard....but then 4 was here and BOOM...life changing! 

Now in saying that....I sometimes want a 5th! :| BUT....then I realize that there is no way I can split myself anymore and I visualize myself in a looney bin and then my kids have no mom....SO...

Don't back down. And the silent treatment is stupid....pet peeve of mine...


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> 4 kids is mother effing HARD! No matter if they are close in age or spread apart. I thought 3 was hard....but then 4 was here and BOOM...life changing!
> 
> Now in saying that....I sometimes want a 5th! :| BUT....then I realize that there is no way I can split myself anymore and I visualize myself in a looney bin and then my kids have no mom....SO...
> 
> Don't back down. And the silent treatment is stupid....pet peeve of mine...


I wonder what _*y*our_ children think of your parenting skills. At least you accept that you are at your limit.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

Yikes, this is like a nightmare for me lol. Got the V done after our 3rd and fortunately enough our 3rd has been enough of a handful that my wife even cringes at the thought of a 4th. Also, getting a reverse does not guarantee success and I believe getting a reverse v is a lot more involved (as well as with recovery) than getting a V.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

CatJayBird said:


> 4 kids is mother effing HARD! No matter if they are close in age or spread apart. I thought 3 was hard....but then 4 was here and BOOM...life changing!
> 
> Now in saying that....I sometimes want a 5th! :| BUT....then I realize that there is no way I can split myself anymore and I visualize myself in a looney bin and then my kids have no mom....SO...
> 
> Don't back down. And the silent treatment is stupid....pet peeve of mine...


I laugh at all those people who say going from 1 to 2 kids is harder then going from 2 to 3, etc...


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> I wonder what our children think of your parenting skills. At least you accept that you are at your limit.


Good question. Maybe I'll ask them and report back...:wink2:


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

EllisRedding said:


> I laugh at all those people who say going from 1 to 2 kids is harder then going from 2 to 3, etc...




In all honesty, I though 0-1 was the most difficult...until #4. 2 and 3 were a breeze! lol.... NOW they are all just as difficult!


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

CatJayBird said:


> In all honesty, I though 0-1 was the most difficult...until #4. 2 and 3 were a breeze! lol.... NOW they are all just as difficult!


The moment my wife and I were outnumbered, it went down the $hitter (a positive $hitter, but a $hitter nonetheless) lol.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

CatJayBird said:


> Good question. Maybe I'll ask them and report back...:wink2:


yes, it's not unsusual
1. to play favorites with your children
2. to neglect getting them to the places they need to be.... and on time. For all my parents hassling me about the cost of the private school I went to, it was rare they got me there on time.

3. they hassled me about how I should have my own money. but living in the 'burbs, with no car where do you find work? When I did get a job at the local department store, they picked me up late after the store closes and turn it slights off.....

4. do you make your children responsible for themselves. Or do you ask your daughter to clean your son's urine off the toilet seats?

5. Do you expect your teenage daughter to turn the lights and TV off upstairs at night...... forgetting that her siblings could wake up and turn them on again........

6. do you try "to help" with your children's homework and then get mad when they tell you "but the teacher said this......"

7. do you ask questions with an answer already in your head and when yu don't get it, you assume and tell your child that he/ she is stupid.....


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## CatJayBird (Oct 5, 2015)

NextTimeAround said:


> yes, it's not unsusual
> 1. to play favorites with your children *I have daily favorites...the one who is not crying/fighting/hitting* :wink2:
> 
> 2. to neglect getting them to the places they need to be.... and on time. For all my parents hassling me about the cost of the private school I went to, it was rare they got me there on time. *Nope...never tardy. We also rely on the school busses.*
> ...


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

This situation is really sad to me. 

I remember having a brief moment of biological urge for a #3. It was brief, but it was strong. My logical mind knew it was stupid and not a good idea for us. The rest of me grieved the fact that my baby days were over. It feels a bit like a vault door slamming in your face to make the realization that you'll never have that experience for yourself again. An overwhelming and all consuming grief. I remember how crazy I felt. 

What made me snap out of it? The logical part of me knew we would not be able to give #3 the quality of life that we'd want. We didn't (and still don't) have the finances to support adding another child and I already struggle with being as involved as I'd like to be in my two kids lives. Adding a third would stretch the time between them even thinner. 

My husband was very adamant - no more kids. It hurt for awhile.

In a year or so, the urge passed. It's funny because now I see other moms out there with infants and all that comes flooding back are the sleepless nights, diapers and the hours of crying with no consoling them. I feel thankful that we are past that stage with ours now. 

I can see both points of view. 

She's not thinking logically right now and she's probably so caught up in the hormones of it all that she can't even see it, or doesn't care. 

The advice you've been given is great and it's exactly what my H did. Just say no, no further discussion needed. If she's angry with you or tries to skewer you for it, let it roll off your back. 

Get back to that counselor you've seen before. It may help her to have a third party to talk to. 

Good luck.


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## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

We have 3 sons. My wife loves babies like crazy, she wanted more but her bid was not up for it. Took many many doctor visits telling her the same thing....eventually all the lady bits on the inside were removed. Tough time.

She still gets the baby crazies...every couple of years. She is finally focusing on the new goal line of grandchildren...although my 2 oldest seem far far far from being able to care for themselves, let alone a family. So while she is excited, I'm straight terrified. 

As too treatment of them...they are all convinced that the other is the favorite, that they had it hardest, etc. All we tell them is that they are all different people and required individualized parenting. 

When the oldest hit 18 and starting getting his stipend...for the other two...it was like the end of the world. Now that two of them are over 18...our youngest could care less...strange how that worked out. 

I don't know quite how we could have managed 4. Even though, we had tremendous help, nannies, maid service, family help too. 3 is more than enough.

If in your gut, 3 is your max. Stick with three. She will work herself out of the phase she's in soon enough. Don't get drawn into arguing. No means no and is not open for further discussion. 

If she stays in baby mode....consider a puppy....they are needy and make messes just like kids.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dan,

That was a typo on my part. I meant to type 'third', not 'fourth'. 

What promises did she make regarding a THIRD child? And has she kept them?

Because she clearly made you some promises in order to get you to agree to a third child. 

And I'm guessing she hasn't followed through very well. 







DanOz123 said:


> MEM11363 - We haven't had a fourth yet. Basically the promises she is making me now to convince me is the same as when we were discussing having a 3rd. It just seems like a recurring pattern and there is a deeper void that needs to be addressed. How can I believe her or trust her if she can go back on her word and say people are entitled to change their mind?
> 
> sixty-eight - All the points you make I agree with and I told her already. She keeps saying I'm not trying and not open minded.
> 
> ...


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

My wife did the exact same thing.

Even tried to guilt me over getting my vasectomy that she agreed to.

Until I put my foot down and refused to listen to it any more. "I do not want more children. If you want more children go find a different husband to do it, and think about what that decision would mean to our current children."

And I turned around and walked away.

A few years down the road... baby fever has passed. It's not like she doesn't bring up time to time that she would have had more kids, but she also admits that it's both parent's decision and that our hands are full with what we have.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

When she says that you're not being open minded, say "Nope. We made a decision to have a third and final child together. That decision was final and you knew that. Live up to it, or leave, but either way my baby making days are over."


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Escalation - is typically a sequence, not a unilateral act

Do not contribute to escalation by saying: live up to our agreement or leave

She is aware that leaving is an option. 




marduk said:


> When she says that you're not being open minded, say "Nope. We made a decision to have a third and final child together. That decision was final and you knew that. Live up to it, or leave, but either way my baby making days are over."


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

MEM11363 said:


> Escalation - is typically a sequence, not a unilateral act
> 
> Do not contribute to escalation by saying: live up to our agreement or leave
> 
> She is aware that leaving is an option.


For me, I had to make it clear that I wasn't going to be pushed or broken down into being compliant. I gave her two options: no or leave.

I get what you're saying. Maybe it's overkill. But for my wife, "no" wasn't enough. When I said "no" what she seemed to hear was "it's a no until you work on me long enough that I give in."


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I know this is just anecdotal, but this thread reminds me of a couple that we are good friends with. I've always commented to my H that I don't understand how their relationship can work but they seem to make it happen. 

In their case, she comes from a big family (1 of 8 or 9 kids?) And always wanted a big family of her own. I'm good friends with her and I know she grew up having to help run the house and even having to help pay for family expenses as the oldest child. Still, she loved it and just saw it as part of being a family. 

He does not desire a big family. He wanted 2 kids tops. He was very up front about that. 

She conceded before marriage that it wasn't practical to have a large number of kids. 

However, her longing was always there for a big family. Perhaps she under estimated how important it was to her. 

Time has passed. They had their two kids. 

He went to get his V, and right before he went through with it she begged him not to and wanted a 3rd baby. It took a year for him to come around to that idea. 

As soon as the 3rd baby was in the oven, he had his V. She knew he was going to do it but this time he didn't tell her the date. She didn't know it had happened until he came home from the doc. 

It's been about 2 years since then and every time I see her (not often) she's eyeballing other moms and talking about how much she wishes there could be a #4. It doesn't seem to be relenting for her. 

I don't know what goes on in their relationship behind closed doors. I don't ask. But as an observer and friend I am sad for her that she's still grieving that her family is not going to grow past baby 3. I can't imagine she will not become resentful over time if she doesn't make peace with it soon. 

In her case, my perspective is that she compromised in the beginning before marriage on something that was clearly very important to her. Maybe she thought she could live with the decision then and now it's not as easy as she thought. I don't know.

I hope this isn't the case in your situation. That's why i suggested revisiting the counselor to help you navigate this.


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I know this is just anecdotal, but this thread reminds me of a couple that we are good friends with. I've always commented to my H that I don't understand how their relationship can work but they seem to make it happen.
> 
> In their case, she comes from a big family (1 of 8 or 9 kids?) And always wanted a big family of her own. I'm good friends with her and I know she grew up having to help run the house and even having to help pay for family expenses as the oldest child. Still, she loved it and just saw it as part of being a family.
> 
> ...


The only thing that is difficult to sympathize with in this situation is the fact that she agreed to it. If she is resentful, it is a problem of her own making.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

farsidejunky said:


> The only thing that is difficult to sympathize with in this situation is the fact that she agreed to it. If she is resentful, it is a problem of her own making.


Not arguing with you there. 

Didn't post it to garner sympathy for her. 

I can still appreciate how we all make difficult choices (sometimes the wrong choices) at one point in our lives not fully aware of how it will affect us in the future.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Marduk,
I did a similar thing to what you did. In hindsight - it was effective. Perhaps that is what matters most. I knew M2 very well by then. So I was proactive in our discussion of family size. 

At the time - we had two children, ages 5 and 1. I knew M2 wanted MORE than two. I did not ask how many more because I'm not certain she could have given me an accurate answer. 

We had this conversation on a peaceful Saturday afternoon when our youngest was a year old. 

>>>>>>>>
I have thought about family size for 6 months now. I want to stop at 2, you want more. You have 3 options, please don't pick option 3. Either 1 or 2 are fine. 

1. You agree to 3 - this is not a pretend to agree - this is a hardcore commit that when our next baby is 6 months - I go get a vasectomy without further conversation/discussion disagreement. This is my preferred choice. I will never complain about the 3rd, never reference that I did this under duress. I will simply convince myself I want 3 just as much as you. I am certain I can get there. 

2. You decide that 3 children is just not enough for you to be happy. I will make you a generous financial settlement, we will part amicably and stay great friends. You may then proceed to have as many children as you like with another man. 

3. You pretend to agree to 1, and then try to go for 2 - with me. If that happens we will divorce, it will be bitter, I will inflict as much misery on you as I am legally able. I will never - if I live to be a 100 - never forgive you for deceiving me. 

I have had 6 months to consider this. You are welcome to evaluate your options as long as you like. If you believe there are other valid options I am glad to listen to your thoughts. 

For me, this is solely driven by time/money considerations. I am confident that being the sole provider to 4 children will leave me chronically tense. It will adversely impact our family. And me. I wish that wasn't true - but it IS TRUE. So pretending otherwise wouldn't help anyone. 

I believe that M2 correctly heard the subtext which was: 
I'm willing to stretch and have a third because I love you. Hopefully you are willing to forgo a fourth child for the same reason. 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

M2 selected option 1, and we followed the plan. The one discussion she initiated of a fourth child was not contentious. 




MEM11363 said:


> Escalation - is typically a sequence, not a unilateral act
> 
> Do not contribute to escalation by saying: live up to our agreement or leave
> 
> She is aware that leaving is an option.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

kag123 said:


> In her case, my perspective is that she compromised in the beginning before marriage on something that was clearly very important to her. Maybe she thought she could live with the decision then and now it's not as easy as she thought. I don't know.
> 
> I hope this isn't the case in your situation. That's why i suggested revisiting the counselor to help you navigate this.


This is a very important point...she compromised her dreams- for whatever reason, felt she could change his mind later on possibly... never wise... then she gave her word -with #3. .. and now she wants to take it back.. change it yet again....

I am a woman who made it clear while dating what I wanted ..I laid it out there (and many a guy would have ran from me !)..... I wanted at least 3 kids (as I was an only child , always envied my friends with larger families, the sweet chaos & fun, I wanted that [email protected]#)... I also added....if one wasn't a girl.. I'd want to keep going.. this was the desire of my heart... it was something ripped from my own life, I had my mother for a short time in childhood. 

He agreed...and he honored his word every step of the way.....I adore my husband for this.. what a wonderful man I married.... we ended up with 6..(and we had almost 7 yrs of infertility in there too).... #5 was the girl.. he still let me squeeze in trying to give her a sister.. Our quiver is full..our family complete... there was a peace there for me. 

I would never let him get a vasectomy though.. I got the IUD. 

Others would think my husband was crazy, I suppose... It's very important to be on the same page in this, have a similar vision while dating.. how do you see your future, are you the family type.. will this be a burden... if one's deep desires are in opposition with the other.. its best to part ways early on. 

But here you are.. I feel the husband compromised as much as any man should -after the vows with having #3, that was his mountain top compromise to allow her happiness, this extra "gift" one might call it.. (I see our 6th as just that)...... as hard as it may be for the wife.... I side with the husband on this one.....

She gave her word -it needs to mean something...... he got the vasectomy... any grieving -if a change of heart should have been with the snipping... and laid to rest...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

SA,

Reason number 100 why you married the right guy. 




SimplyAmorous said:


> This is a very important point...she compromised her dreams- for whatever reason, felt she could change his mind later on possibly... never wise... then she gave her word -with #3. .. and now she wants to take it back.. change it yet again....
> 
> I am a woman who made it clear while dating what I wanted ..I laid it out there (and many a guy would have ran from me !)..... I wanted at least 3 kids (as I was an only child , always envied my friends with larger families, the sweet chaos & fun, I wanted that [email protected]#)... I also added....if one wasn't a girl.. I'd want to keep going.. this was the desire of my heart... it was something ripped from my own life, I had my mother for a short time in childhood.
> 
> ...


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

DanOz123 said:


> Doesn’t her word/promise from 4 years ago mean anything anymore?


Babies.

She probably doesn't even want children (they're noisy and independent) , only complete dependancy "love" will qualify.

Your only worth is baby provider.

You don't actually have a wife, you have sponsored a nanny. You were only means to an ends anyway - welcome to the world the rest of us males live in.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Spot,

It is sad that you feel victimized. 

But it is pure 'ego self protection' to claim that your situation is the 'norm'. 




spotthedeaddog said:


> Babies.
> 
> She probably doesn't even want children (they're noisy and independent) , only complete dependancy "love" will qualify.
> 
> ...


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

DanOz123 said:


> She keeps saying I'm not trying and not open minded.


Not trying to what - agree with her?
Calling you "not open minded" seems to mean that you are unwilling to agree with her. Are you not allowed to have an opinion of your own? That's what she seems to be saying. She is manipulating you. Let her know that you see this a manipulation tactic and you do not appreciate her treating you that way.

Giving you the silent treatment is setting a poor example for the children you do have. She is teaching them that it's okay to punish people when you don't get your way. She also teaching them that it’s okay to go back on your word if you change your mind, so contract and agreements mean nothing if she doesn’t feel that same way she did when she made the agreement.

Sure it's fine and normal to change your mind, but that doesn't mean you should try and force that on other people.

She is being manipulating and controlling. Let her know that's what she's doing and it's creating marriage and family trouble.



DanOz123 said:


> I question myself whether I could have done anything better to avoid all this...


Maybe, maybe not. It is time now to start setting some boundaries and holding to them. You can do that with a good attitude and you don’t have to get angry to be firm.




DanOz123 said:


> How can I believe her or trust her if she can go back on her word and say people are entitled to change their mind?


It’s fine to change your mind, but going back on a promise is an entirely different thing. What your wife is doing is manipulating you, so she can control you. Call her out on it. When she gets angry about you having an opinion and calling her out on treating you badly, call her on that too. Tell her you expect a better attitude and want her to change her attitude into one that is concerned with your well-being and has your best interests at heart. You not agreeing with her doesn’t mean you don’t have her best interests at heart. Her trying to manipulate you into changing your mind along with her dismissal of her promises is unacceptable behavior. She is mistreating you and trying to make you think you re mistreating her. She is blame shifting.



DanOz123 said:


> I was really hoping this time around she would be the one that compromises. Maybe I set up myself to fail by setting these expectations. This has really been a learning experience for me!


This is not about compromise. This is about being honest and reliable. She is not being either. You are getting sucked into her manipulation.

I don’t think there is anything deeper going on with your wife wanting another child. Many women (and men too) want many children. That is perfectly normal. The problem is when the husband and wife do not agree on this and one tries to force the other into having more children when they don’t want to.

In our family, my husband was the one who wanted children. Our first two were planned, but the last one was a surprise. My husband agreed to have a vasectomy after that, but a few years later I began to feel strongly that I wanted another baby and regretted my husband’s vasectomy, even though he would gladly have had more children. It took me a while, but I got through it by realizing that it was important to be satisfied and thankful for the children we had. I was about your wife’s age when I began to feel like I wanted another child. I got over it and am perfectly happy with the family we have.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> Babies.
> 
> She probably doesn't even want children (they're noisy and independent) , only complete dependancy "love" will qualify.
> 
> ...


I would imagine the attention that a woman gets when she's pregnant could be intoxicating. If I want people to give me attention. all I have to do is say that I am cancer survivor.

Psychologists have also identified the syndrome "Munchhausen by proxy" in which parents crave and search out the attention a parent gets when having a sick children. 

The agrarian society is over with. Who has 4+ children these days: 
1. Hollywood celebrities - at least a couple of them are adopted and they have the money to cover the costs. (ie Speilberg, Tom Cruise, Angelian Jolie) Although, still I wonder if those kids get the attention that they need when growing up.

2. Reality show speactacles: Can you say Duggar? 

3. Welfare mothers: Sadly some girls find that the only they can get the attention that they crave is by having babies.

Which group does your wife belong to?


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## Youngster (Sep 5, 2014)

There was a time when the world could handle couples having 4+ children......that time is long past. Look at the world population projections, it's exploding. Read about how many children worldwide starve to death every day(according to the UN it's 18,000). Tell your wife it's irresponsible for her to bring 4 offspring into the world. 

To address your point, you made a deal to stop at 3, she agreed and should honor that agreement. Also the vasectomy/reversal is happening to YOUR body. It's YOUR choice to have it or not. It's wrong for her to pressure you concerning a procedure that affects your health!

Finally, if you agree to have 4 children what's to keep her from asking for 5, 6, 7?


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## mmcm3333 (Sep 12, 2015)

First, potential reasons she's wanting another child:

(1) She's nearing the end of her fertility (which can last into her 40's, though the chances go down) and she might be freaking out about this. It's a hard transition for a baby-minded woman. It's also a tough time in terms of age/transition- she might be resisting that soon-to-come 40th birthday. 
(2) She could be 'addicted' to babies- and I get this. I loved being pregnant. It may sound odd, but I even loved the birthing process and the time in the hospital when the focus is on you and your newborn. I loved every second of the beginnings- the night feedings, the cries, that constant connection with a little being...some Mom's get hooked on that. You're constantly happy and sad at the same time. You want them to grow, but you're battling with yourself because every milestone means change. Her role is 100% crucial and easy to figure out during the early stages and as a Mom, you're 100% validated every moment at this point. You're still like this for a long time (if not forever), but the way it happens changes. After just a few days with my first, I already knew I was addicted. You have a sense of full justification when someone needs you this much- it's nothing like anything else you've experienced. It's silly because you always know it's fleeting and, honestly, the real work of parenting comes later- but it's still hard to transition.
(3) Not sure if she's working, but if not, her only job right now is a Mom and at some point, there will be no infant needing her. Again, I can see why she's freaking out. If she's working, as I am, no matter how awful the day, being pregnant kept me from feeling bad. I always had something to look forward to. And maternity leave was the most incredible 3 months ever- no other time can you focus completely on your children with no guilt (unless you're a stay-at-home mom). But again, that's temporary and overall a very small part of her life and the childrens' lives. 
(4) How do you gauge your marriage? Is she using having more children as a way to make up for something missing at home? 

I'd talk to her about why she wants another child. What is making her suddenly want this again (is it any of the 4 issues above)? A dream is not a reasonable answer (a dream is either a lifelong goal- in which case, she should have told you she wants a least 4 children from the get-go- or a dream is a wish that may or may not come true based upon logistics/circumstances- a dream is not reality). Be reasonable with her- get to the heart of the matter. If she's worried she's losing her purpose, talk about it. The capacity changes, but as a Mom, she'll always be very much needed. As the three children age, they need her time and focus. She will not be any less important, but every woman has to face changes in how their children needs them. My child is 14 months now and I'm already worrying about my role- it started about the time I stopped breast feeding. But it's part of having kids. You want them to become independent, but as a Mom, you also feel sad when they start to change. Many Mom's tell me infants/toddlers are fun, but the real joy is when they're older and you're helping them make good choices. They all remember story time and bath time fondly, but it's also temporary. That's hard to swallow, but it's reality. The only way to not face it is to have another child. 

If she's not fulfilled in the marriage, as long as she keeps having children, she can ignore the problems. Is this an issue?

Regardless, I don't think it's fair that she's going back on a decision you both made unless it's a joint decision. A vasectomy is a pretty clear decision. If she wasn't sure, she should have protested before you did this. Did she? As you said, you were reluctant for a third child, but did that- she should have recognized this was a fair compromise and if she wants to change her decision, she has to respect that you can say no (especially after a vasectomy- this is more permanent/serious than just using birth control, after all). You talked this through last time and made a final decision. Now, maybe she thinks since you gave in last time, you'll give in again. 

She has a 'dream', so bring in reality. It sounds like she thinks like this is really easy, but it's not. Maybe she just needs to be brought down to earth and her hormones are blinding her from reality. This is reality:

(1) An additional child will impact the existing childrens' lives. Her time and focus is already divided- those three kids have changing needs. It's not fair to the children to take away something from them just because of her need for another child when it's not a joint decision between the two of you. The reality is if she's acting selfishly, the existing kids will lose out because she has to focus on a newborn. Now, this is easier to deal with if you both wanted another child and worked it out together. But it's not fair to put this on the other kids when Dad isn't completely on board. 

(2) Do the math and show it to her. How much does this 4th child cost? Are you contributing a high % to your 401k? Are you contributing to college funds for your three children (maybe a 529 for each child)? Are you contributing to personal savings? If you're using daycare, how much more does a 4th hurt your monthly income? How much does a 4th reduce disposable income (and require more sacrifices)? After these things, can you even afford a 4th child? Also, I think I understood your youngest is 4. In 14 years, you folks can start to move on, do other things as a couple, etc (assuming you have college funds/plans for every child). Is that really what she wants- another 18+ years of financial obligation? Or do you two have talks about/plan for a life beyond the children?

(3) Besides the math of raising a child, show her the reality of costs and possible issues to even try for a 4th. From a logistics stand point, can you afford the cost of the reversal? (My husbands was $5K, plus additional fees, but we had estimates up to $12k). In most cases, it takes up to a year to see if a reversal is successful. Many reversals are not completely successful- yours is newer, so your chances are better, but still not great (after all, the procedure is expected to be permanent). So, go through the paces- what happens if you spent thousands and it didn't work? And even if it does, you're both 40 by then, so other fertility issues may come up. Facing reality, has her ovarian reserve been tested to see the likelihood of another child in another two or three years? And if there were issues with your vasectomy reversal or her fertility- how far is she really expecting you two to go? If your reversal didn't work, even if she's still fertile, your only chance is IVF. You could break down and say you'll do the reversal and if it doesn't work, that's it- but because her word isn't worth much now, she may then change her tune again and demand you do infertility treatments (unless insurance covers it, which is only in a few states and has age limits- generally under 40, it's about $15-45k per round/multi-round contract). Besides costs, she should understand that infertility treatments are highly emotional and demand a lot of time- time away from her 3 kids. 

No matter what, it's not fair she agreed to something and is changing her mind and expecting you to just go along and I think she needs a reality check in terms of what you both want and finances. It may just be a hard time for her. Keep talking, find out why she wants this, see if it's just a matter of insecurity/dealing with changes and face hard numbers before you folks decide anything else. 

But also know that I think it's 100% wrong that she's trying to guilt you into doing what she wants. That's not right. And it's not right to make a decision- which is pretty final with a vasectomy- and then go back on it unless you both agreed. This isn't some simple thing like you want some paint color and she doesn't. This is a huge financial and emotional investment- it's just not so simple as having a dream/wish and saying 'oh, my husband doesn't love me if he doesn't give in'. I think that's very selfish and juvenile. I think you love your kids and your wife and you're being realistic and fair in terms of expectations. She's being unrealistic and selfish and ungrateful for what she already has.

My husband and I dealt with a vasectomy reversal and infertility treatments. We agreed on this before we were married. He agreed to multiple children. Despite this, during the process to have the first child, I kept asking him if he was still on-board (we had a lot of set-backs and losses- I just wanted to make sure he wanted to keep going). After the issues/cost with the first, I keep asking him if he's okay with trying again for a second child. If he said 'no', I'd take that seriously. Yes, we'd agreed to something, but that was before we knew how much things cost and how hard it was. I'd talk with him and we'd make a mutual decision. I wouldn't guilt him into anything- frankly because it would feel hollow to do something without him being on-board. And I think our marriage would suffer if I pushed forward despite his desires. Marriage is the foundation for the children- if it fails, the children are harmed.


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

Thanks you mmcm3333 for taking time in sharing your thoughts. We are seeing a counselor in about two weeks time to talk about this. I really appreciate everything you mentioned on your post, it makes sense to me. I hope everything works out. I just want my wife back and start to enjoy the life and family we have today.

Dan


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

DanOz123 said:


> I just want my wife back and start to enjoy the life and family we have today.


Say these exact words in your MC session.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dan,

For just a moment I'd like you to compress/abstract the current situation. 

For you - it's natural to be upset that an important agreement is being violated. 

For her - her body is screaming at her to reproduce. It is a scream that is drowning out almost all else. I'm not excusing her behavior, just explaining it. 

I'm going to say what I believe here: you're in pain, she's in a lot more pain. That doesn't make her right. It is however useful for you to keep that in mind. 

Telling her that you want her to get over being angry at you, so you two can get back to being happy, is a dangerous move. If she is hurting more than you, this will seem selfish. Not saying it IS selfish. Saying it will seem that way. 

Far better to acknowledge that she's upset. And express your hope that she will gradually feel less angry at you, until she reaches the point she isn't angry any more. 

And that you want that FOR HER SAKE. 

Because I don't think you are ready for what you may hear which is: I'm angry at Dan, he pressured me to agree to the vasectomy. I only agreed so we could have our third. I may not ever forgive him if he doesn't get the vasectomy reversed. (Subtext: Dan is ruining our marriage).

The true answer to that is: If our marriage is healthy, you will eventually feel better about us. If it isn't, you might not. 






DanOz123 said:


> Thanks you mmcm3333 for taking time in sharing your thoughts. We are seeing a counselor in about two weeks time to talk about this. I really appreciate everything you mentioned on your post, it makes sense to me. I hope everything works out. I just want my wife back and start to enjoy the life and family we have today.
> 
> Dan


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

MEM11363 - thank you again for your insight. That is exactly what I needed, more about her perspective than anything because that is what I am really trying to get my head around.

The vasectomy was certainly a joint decision but I will definitely dig deeper to see if she felt pressured. I don't really think that's case. For example, after having our third (even severals months ago) she would comment on how "done" she was having children when seeing someone pregnant and how glad she was not having to go through all that again. Clearly something changed since then. All our kids are in school now and we have been making more effort in spending time and really focusing on being husband and wife. Perhaps that new found love + her biological clock triggered all this?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dan,

This is a bit of a tight rope. So I hope you'll humor me when I say you want to carefully script your part of these conversations. 

Regarding triggers: 
I think it's positive to ask. To say: I got the impression you were happy to be done. Did something happen? 

Regarding the vasectomy: 
Given that she was on board before conceiving your third AND was on board when you had it done, I think you are on solid ground. It was stupid of me to raise that. 

And I think it would be dangerous to ask if she felt pressured. Because she IS VERY DRIVEN right now. And she might do a bit of rewriting history to try to apply some guilt. 

I've the benefit of 25 years experience having conflict with M2. 

A couple critical points relating to strategy. 

I CANNOT over emphasize the importance of you remaining dead calm during these conversations. 

If it was me, I would do an intense cardio workout before counseling. And if possible, before any further conversations on this topic whether they are one to one, or with a counselor. 

I have a lot of experience with conflict with M2. She's determined, lightning quick on her feet - like a trial lawyer - and when under duress she fights dirty. 

All that said, I've never had a bad outcome with M2 if I am totally calm. Not once in 25 years. 

That doesn't mean she hasn't threatened to divorce me. She has. But the sequence of events is predictable. M2 wants me to meet some need - fully. I'm unable or unwilling. Not due to a lack of love. Typically due to the presence of practical issues. 

She may in that type situation say: 

M2: I'm not sure this marriage is working for me. 
MEM: I'm sorry. I feel bad that you are so unhappy. (This isn't being clever, it is just the truth, I DO feel bad for her in these situations)
M2: I think we should get a divorce. 
MEM: That makes me sad. (Long pause) I don't think you should stay in a marriage that you truly don't want to be in.

At this point she changes the subject. The next day I act normal. Yep - normal. She is typically quiet for 1-2 days. And then she says: I'm sorry for being such a raging bltch

And my response to that is honest: I felt bad for you. 

And that's it. Back to happy times. 

Things I NEVER DO, in the window between a threat and a retraction / apology. 

1. Ask M2 if she meant what she said. 
2. Ask her how she's feeling (I can tell at a glance how M2 is feeling). And in this type situation I also know WHY she's feeling bad. 
3. Ask if she plans to or already has: talked to a lawyer, looked at apartments, etc...
4. Make ANY attempts to accelerate her return to an even keel.
5. Ask if I should cancel future vacation plans/etc....

Here's why those things are all - off limits. They are all basically the SAME thing. An attempt to get her to reassure me that everything is going to be ok. Those type actions are - all about me. And worse, they show fear. 

*Overt displays of fear in front of an angry partner invite aggression. 
*

Instead, I give her breathing space and let her sort out her emotions. I respond to conversational overtures - but other than basic polite acknowledgement - generally don't make them. 




DanOz123 said:


> MEM11363 - thank you again for your insight. That is exactly what I needed, more about her perspective than anything because that is what I am really trying to get my head around.
> 
> The vasectomy was certainly a joint decision but I will definitely dig deeper to see if she felt pressured. I don't really think that's case. For example, after having our third (even severals months ago) she would comment on how "done" she was having children when seeing someone pregnant and how glad she was not having to go through all that again. Clearly something changed since then. All our kids are in school now and we have been making more effort in spending time and really focusing on being husband and wife. Perhaps that new found love + her biological clock triggered all this?


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

MEM thank you.

You make an excellent point about staying calm which I feel like I did at the beginning, however, as our conversations went on over the weeks I lost control. I become very frustrated and angry which is not in my nature. Anyway, something I need to work on for the future. I like your advice in regards to going for a run or doing exercise before a big talk. Makes a lot of sense.

She has mentioned divorce twice during our time together, once this time when we had a big blow up. I did not take it well and walked away. I just cannot understand how she can say those things. It's just something that does not cross my mind for a second.

I do have a tendency of needing reassurance and feel that I need to be part of process of fixing the difference. Perhaps I need to let go a little bit and let her process her emotions in her own way. Sometimes I lose patience and the longer it drags on, the more frustrated I get.


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## Threeblessings (Sep 23, 2015)

I have read all the replies, but a larger family means a bigger car, bigger house and more money to make ends meet. Another baby isn't going to fix your wifes underlying issues, and I think there is some. Does she come from a large family? Was her mother a stay at home mother?


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

Threeblessings said:


> I have read all the replies, but a larger family means a bigger car, bigger house and more money to make ends meet. Another baby isn't going to fix your wifes underlying issues, and I think there is some. Does she come from a large family? Was her mother a stay at home mother?


No, she does not come from a large family (she has one sister). And her mom mostly worked all her life.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Is she a SAHM? 

You said the kids are all in school now. That might be what's triggered this desire for a 4th. 

I had a tubal after my 3rd was born. Once all the kids were in school, the house was too quiet, it felt lonely, I wasn't constantly needed anymore. Sending the baby off to school and independence is hard. Especially when you know there will be no more babies.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## DanOz123 (Oct 9, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> Is she a SAHM?
> 
> You said the kids are all in school now. That might be what's triggered this desire for a 4th.
> 
> ...


Yes she is a SAHM. Thanks for sharing your experience.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

This is golden. 





sixty-eight said:


> sometimes baby fever hits. usually followed immediately by the birth of child to a friend or relative or someone admired. I've seen it a million times, like falling dominoes. Or some women just really love being pregnant/infants and the fever hits on a schedule. For instance if your kids were all 2 years apart, then you can extrapolate the baby fever to occur every 2 years.
> 
> Is there somewhere with babies she can visit or volunteer? (MOPS, Churches, NICU) can she babysit someone else's infant for a day or two? do you know anyone with a puppy? Sometimes (seriously) the baby fever can be cured with a temporary replacement baby. At my old church, the baby fever ladies would sign up like clockwork to volunteer in the infant nursery, bam, pregnancy averted. if she could sign up for a mom's playdate group for your younger ones, there will invariably be a few babies of the younger sibling variety.
> 
> ...


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

DanOz123 said:


> Yes she is a SAHM. Thanks for sharing your experience.



As the kids grow and become more independent, a SAHM may start to feel empty. The youngest going off to school leaves a pretty big void. It's common to start to feel less useful and less valuable. You're watching your job, your purpose, being phased out.

On top of all that, the biological clock is ticking because the mother doesn't have many fertile years left. The body is whispering "Now or never! Last chance!"

And it's not uncommon to feel other fears and insecurities about aging and entering into a different stage of life. And a lot of SAHM's are relatively socially isolated.

Have you two thought about her going back to work when the kids are in school or maybe some kind of part time at home-part time in an office split? If she doesn't have qualifications, maybe suggest she pursue a degree or just take pre-reqs until she knows what she wants to do?

If she'll be staying at home until the kids are older still, what about getting her a puppy or some other pet? It helps to have something to love on and take care of and pets are good company. Not to mention, if she needs to get out more, she can join some pet related group to meet people.

If pets aren't your thing, maybe she could do some volunteer work or really develop an interest into a full blown hobby.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

Jumping and hand waving....ME....ME.....ME.....ME....>


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Since she's a SAHM with kids all in school now maybe she should have a little in-home daycare business. She could get her baby fix and earn some extra cash.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree that the youngest going off the school and her being home alone all day is probably what is triggering this. Something needs to happen, but that doesn't mean another baby. It means that your wife needs to find purpose and identity in more than her family life. Of course family is important, but when she is at loose ends, it would be good for her to volunteer or to find a part time job.
If she doesn't make this connection now, she will be a wreck when the kids start into adulthood and out of the house. Now is the time to start her transition. What are her joys and passions? Does she have any dreams about what she would like to do? Now may be a good time to begin discussing that with her. The problem is not that you won't bend regarding another baby. There is something going on inside her that needs to be resolved. It's probably a feeling of being lonely and not being needed while she is alone in the empty house all day, combined (as other have said) with her biological clock winding down.


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## 2ndchanceGuy (Sep 28, 2015)

Roselyn said:


> You need to take your wife to a psychologist. She is trying to fill a void in her life by having more babies. No, her wanting a 4th baby will not stop there. Her mindset will continue in this path as there is something else that she wants to be filled.


I agree with this. 
IMO . You and your wife need to see a marriage counselor ASAP


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

MJJEAN said:


> As the kids grow and become more independent, a SAHM may start to feel empty. The youngest going off to school leaves a pretty big void. It's common to start to feel less useful and less valuable. You're watching your job, your purpose, being phased out.
> 
> On top of all that, the biological clock is ticking because the mother doesn't have many fertile years left. The body is whispering "Now or never! Last chance!"
> 
> ...


Make sure the volunteer/hobby thing has both of you doing it, or you might as well start lining up the MLC/divorce papers already....


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

MEM11363 said:


> For her - her body is screaming at her to reproduce. It is a scream that is drowning out almost all else. I'm not excusing her behavior, just explaining it.


I hear that people aren't just animals - she should just decide that such feelings don't drive her decisions.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

spotthedeaddog said:


> I hear that people aren't just animals - she should just decide that such feelings don't drive her decisions.


My sister is a pediatrician. Sometimes she gets those large families. Her assistants call them litters.


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