# He spends weekends away with ex-wife and kids?



## SeekingClarity

Hi, thanks to anyone who has any advice on this one. My partner and I have been together for almost a year. When we got together, he had just moved (for work reasons) to a new location about 6-8 hours drive from where his ex-wife and children live. He spends about one weekend a month, and sometimes a week at a time, with them and sleeps at his ex-wife's place and hangs out with her with or without the kids. He does this because he literally does not have the money to stay at a hotel (he can barely afford to pay the cost- about 150 euros- of driving there; he's already paying child support and vacations). It makes me very uncomfortable. Although I'm glad he wants to be there for his kids, I feel that he's sending the wrong message to them and that by staying with her and acting like a family in this way, he IS still preserving that family. I recently told him that if we are to be together, I need to know that WE are a family and that I will be co-parenting the kids with him. I would be glad to let his ex join in on special occasions or to do this at her place, as long as it's understood that we + his kids are a kind of "family" and not the other way around. He doesn't seem to understand and seems to think I am just unable to understand his kids' feelings, that I want to put myself before them. I have absolutely supported his desire to spend time with his kids & have suggested they stay here, it's logistically impossible unless it's a holiday because of their school schedule. We have also gone there once and stayed in a hotel, but this really took away from his time with them. He says it's just easier and more fun for them to hang out with him at their home rather than in some small hotel room (which it certainly is). But I still feel that the whole situation is twisted, even while I can offer no solutions. Am I wrong to feel this way???? Am I selfish? What should I do/ask him to do? Please help. I'm so confused! 
PS: They were together for 10 years, divorced for six years, and in the years before meeting me were having a sexual relationship without being a true "couple". He says that for him it was absolutely purely sexual & that he made this clear when he accepted her suggestion that they try just being sex partners. He says he felt that this made things easier for both of them to get along & that it was also good for the kids to be able to hang out with both of them in a non-hostile environment.


----------



## SeekingClarity

PS to my last message: when I say "co-parenting," I mean that our relationship with them will be as a couple in addition to his personal, individual relationship with each of them...his ex has custody & that is fine with me, so most of the time he and I cannot see them anyway. I like them a lot & I even like her to the extent that I know her (not much at all):


----------



## FirstYearDown

I am not a parent, nor have I ever been divorced. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

It seems like your partner has A LOT of unfinished business with his ex. I have never heard of a divorced man who is in another relationship, yet still sleeps over at his ex's house. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still intimate. His ex is using the children as an excuse to continue playing house with him....this is unacceptable and disrespectful to YOU. 

You could try letting him know how you feel, along with setting boundaries about what you will and will not tolerate. You teach people how to treat you, lovey. He can do this crap, because you are allowing it. I would have been out the door.


----------



## that_girl

FirstYearDown said:


> I am not a parent, nor have I ever been divorced. Take what I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> It seems like your partner has A LOT of unfinished business with his ex. I have never heard of a divorced man who is in another relationship, yet still sleeps over at his ex's house. I wouldn't be surprised if they were still intimate. His ex is using the children as an excuse to continue playing house with him....this is unacceptable and disrespectful to YOU.
> 
> You could try letting him know how you feel, along with setting boundaries about what you will and will not tolerate. You teach people how to treat you, lovey. He can do this crap, because you are allowing it. I would have been out the door.


Good advice from a non-parent-non-divorcee!

I wouldn't be ok with this. I am a parent and have an ex-partner. I wouldn't stay at his place with our daughter unless I wanted him back. Hence why I haven't stayed with him in over 10 years.

I agree with setting boundaries, but be ready for him to let you go if he doesn't agree. Don't make it about the kids, but more about him staying at his ex's.


----------



## Entropy3000

Totally unacceptable situation. In a long distance situation like that the children would visit with you guys for an extended period when they are not in school. The vacation would be spent with you not the ex. He should never sleep over the ex-wifes house and he should not be spending time with her.

If this does not work then he should consider moving closer to them if that is in his priorities. Kids are important but he chose a new life with you. Actually he has chosen to have both you and his ex-wife. It appears his ex-wife is still unattached to anyone but him. He is in essence now has two wives.



> PS: They were together for 10 years, divorced for six years, and in the years before meeting me were having a sexual relationship without being a true "couple". He says that for him it was absolutely purely sexual & that he made this clear when he accepted her suggestion that they try just being sex partners. He says he felt that this made things easier for both of them to get along & that it was also good for the kids to be able to hang out with both of them in a non-hostile environment.


I think this can infer that they still have a sexual relationship even now.

I am having trouble reconciling these previous thread of yours:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...ttle-intimacy-advice-greatly-appreciated.html

This one says you have been together 15 years.



> My husband and I have been together for almost 15 years now. We have a functional relationship that gives a sort of surface happiness to both of us. But the lack of connection, the undercurrent of anxiety and anguish is also there. Until a few months ago, we lived together here in his (European) country.


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/family...ttle-time-he-spends-his-kids-ex-marriage.html

Two days later:



> I've been seeing my current partner for about eight months now & although I love him, I'm increasingly bothered by how little time he wants to give to his kids (8 and 13). It seems to indicate selfishness...but I don't have kids, so it's hard for me to say. He had to move far away from them and his ex-wife (about 8 hours drive) when he was laid off of his job & now is able to see them for the occasional long weekend and during a week or so maybe twice a year. There is no public transportation for his route, so he has to drive and I know it must be exhausting (not to mention expensive) every time he does. When he lived there, his ex-wife also took care of them most of the time, although he says he saw them a lot more.


Do you have a husband AND a different partner who has kids? Two men?


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi, I appreciate your responses. Entropy, I almost added a note to my first message to clarify how this squares with my other posts, but it just seemed too long...my ex husband and I separated almost a year ago (I wrote several months, but it's been about 11). We were together for 15 years. My new relationship has been on since then. 

Your responses are very helpful, all of you. Tonight we talked and he said he was surprised by my attitude (listened very patiently and non-judgementally, but admitted that he was surprised). He said he thought his situation was quite normal and that I was possessive. I had made very clear that this is not about the kids at all, only about him and his ex. I have been confused ever since we talked tonight, as he really seems firmly convinced that the situation is normal, and won't even admit that it might be uncomfortable for me or that a person who feels unconfortable in my situation is having a normal reaction. Reading your responses, I realize that it is not at all abnormal for me to be feeling this way...


----------



## Entropy3000

There is nothing normal, usual or typical about what he is doing.

Of course he is going to take that position. But whether he is sincere or not is not the point. This should not be acceptable to you, unless you are ok living in an open marriage.

I think what through me off is that the date stamps on your posts were two days apart. Not years apart. 09-05-2011 Your husband of 15 years. 09-07-2011 your hubby of less than one year.

So you were married to a guy for 15 years ... Soooo, I am thinking you are not yet married to this new guy with the ex-wife. He is your BF. Are you divorced from the first husband yet? It looks like you got separated and moved in with this guy. How long had you known your current partner before you separated from your first husband?


----------



## Jellybeans

My bet is he's still banging her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> My bet is he's still banging her.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Its just sex



I hope the sarcasm came through with that.


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi again, thanks for the feedback...I gather from your responses that this situation would be absolutely unacceptable to most people. I don't know why it is so easy for me to normalize him staying over at her place, but I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable person and I guess my first instinct is always to trust the other person when I have no reason to doubt him or her, and try to understand where he's coming from. The emotional (and sexual) connection we have is so deep that I cannot doubt his honesty. And objectively, I think if I were in his situation I might not know what else to do, either, short of not seeing the kids at all. Also, I think it has to do with the fact that we had been strictly friends for three years when we first got together (which was AFTER my husband and I had separated, for totally unrelated reasons; I did not leave my husband for him and --despite my occasional self-questioning-- will not go back to my husband if this relationship does not work out). My work requires that I spend over half of my time in another city where he and I were colleagues. He, too, was far from his children after having been laid off from his job where they live. After a long search, he had found a new but not permanent position where my second office was located, which was also a foreign country for him. When we met he was in the situation I described: divorced but sleeping with his ex and spending long periods (several weeks at a time) whenever he could at her place with the kids, which his position allowed. I was slowly coming to terms with the reality of my need to leave my husband over those years, too, even though he and I never talked about that. It honestly never crossed my mind that there could be something more with him, and according to him it never crossed his mind, either. We were just friends, and as our friendship deepened so did our emotional connection. Then he was offered a new and much better position back in his home country, but far from his kids. I happened to be there the week he was packing to leave and, on the night we were going to say goodbye, we found that we could not. Since then, we have both been trying to negotiate and re-adjust our lives to fit with this new reality. He has a new job, in a new location, has ended his physical relationship with her but cannot accept only seeing his children on vacations (earlier I wrote about how little I thought he was seeing them, but then later he told me that the first stages of our relationship had really distracted him from them and that he needed to make it a priority to spend at least one weekend a month with them, which seems good and right to me). I do not live here but have been able to spend about half of my time here thanks to a great boss who allows me to work remotely. And since my current job will soon end anyway, I am thinking of moving here. But it's a big risk for me - a new country, new language...as for my ex, we have not divorced yet, mainly because there are so many new variables (it's not clear where I will be living, if I'll be able to find a job immediately, what the legal issues might be in terms of how best to liquidate our assets..) and also because we have just needed time to let the reality of this loss set in. With every week it has become clearer that we did the right thing by separating. I think both of us have now accepted it.

But anyway, when I look at the situation objectively I think: if I can believe that he is not having sex with her- which I can- and he and I have a good emotional connection- which we do- then why does it feel somehow like an emotional betrayal for him to be there with her and the children in the family atmosphere? She is the mother of his children, after all, and if the only way for him to see the children is when she is there then why should I not be able to accept this for the childrens' sake? He says the situation is painful for her (she is not over him and was very upset when he told her about me, even though she accepts it and has tried to communicate that to me) and that it certainly isn't ideal for him either. But I don't know, I don't know. Is it just going to be impossible to have a relationship with this man until his children move out of her place? Is there some other solution I could offer him?


----------



## FieryHairedLady

Tough situation to be in.

I think it is too much temptation for him to be over there.

Especially since they are on good terms and especially since they have had a sex arrangement before.

Years ago I knew of a gal(neighbour), 3 kids with one guy and they were split up for along time. (Years?)

Eventually he moved close by, a few miles away and married someone else.

He would come over to stay the night "with the kids", and yes him and the ex, the kids mom, were having sex.

Wife didnt know.


----------



## FirstYearDown

SeekingClarity said:


> Hi again, thanks for the feedback...I gather from your responses that this situation would be absolutely unacceptable to most people. I don't know why it is so easy for me to normalize him staying over at her place, but *I consider myself to be a fair and reasonable person and I guess my first instinct is always to trust the other person when I have no reason to doubt him or her, and try to understand where he's coming from. The emotional (and sexual) connection we have is so deep that I cannot doubt his honesty. *And objectively, I think if I were in his situation I might not know what else to do, either, short of not seeing the kids at all. Also, I think it has to do with the fact that we had been strictly friends for three years when we first got together (which was AFTER my husband and I had separated, for totally unrelated reasons; I did not leave my husband for him and --despite my occasional self-questioning-- will not go back to my husband if this relationship does not work out). My work requires that I spend over half of my time in another city where he and I were colleagues. He, too, was far from his children after having been laid off from his job where they live. After a long search, he had found a new but not permanent position where my second office was located, which was also a foreign country for him. *When we met he was in the situation I described: divorced but sleeping with his ex and spending long periods (several weeks at a time) whenever he could at her place with the kids, which his position allowed*. I was slowly coming to terms with the reality of my need to leave my husband over those years, too, even though he and I never talked about that. It honestly never crossed my mind that there could be something more with him, and according to him it never crossed his mind, either. We were just friends, and as our friendship deepened so did our emotional connection. Then he was offered a new and much better position back in his home country, but far from his kids. I happened to be there the week he was packing to leave and, on the night we were going to say goodbye, we found that we could not. Since then, we have both been trying to negotiate and re-adjust our lives to fit with this new reality. He has a new job, in a new location, has ended his physical relationship with her but cannot accept only seeing his children on vacations (earlier I wrote about how little I thought he was seeing them, but then later he told me that the first stages of our relationship had really distracted him from them and that he needed to make it a priority to spend at least one weekend a month with them, which seems good and right to me). I do not live here but have been able to spend about half of my time here thanks to a great boss who allows me to work remotely. And since my current job will soon end anyway, I am thinking of moving here. But it's a big risk for me - a new country, new language*...as for my ex, we have not divorced yet, mainly because there are so many new variables (it's not clear where I will be living, if I'll be able to find a job immediately, what the legal issues might be in terms of how best to liquidate our assets..) and also because we have just needed time to let the reality of this loss set in*. With every week it has become clearer that we did the right thing by separating. I think both of us have now accepted it.
> 
> But anyway, when I look at the situation objectively I think: if I can believe that he is not having sex with her- which I can- and he and I have a good emotional connection- which we do- then why does it feel somehow like an emotional betrayal for him to be there with her and the children in the family atmosphere? She is the mother of his children, after all, and if the only way for him to see the children is when she is there then why should I not be able to accept this for the childrens' sake? *He says the situation is painful for her (she is not over him and was very upset when he told her about me, even though she accepts it and has tried to communicate that to me) and that it certainly isn't ideal for him either*. But I don't know, I don't know. Is it just going to be impossible to have a relationship with this man until his children move out of her place? Is there some other solution I could offer him?


Read the bolded parts again. You DO know what is going on here, you are just choosing to rationalize it. :slap:

It seems like you and your boyfriend have some issues to resolve with your exes. Both of you haven't let go, which why you are not divorced and he is sleeping with his ex.

Clearly, your boyfriend goes over there to comfort his wife. He is using her vulnerability against her, to get sex. If your boyfriend was sleeping with his ex before, what is to stop him for continuing to do so?

He can still visit his children without sleeping over! Your boyfriend's behaviour is also unfair to the children-very confusing!


----------



## Entropy3000

FirstYearDown said:


> Read the bolded parts again. You DO know what is going on here, you are just choosing to rationalize it. :slap:
> 
> It seems like you and your boyfriend have some issues to resolve with your exes. Both of you haven't let go, which why you are not divorced and he is sleeping with his ex.
> 
> Clearly, your boyfriend goes over there to comfort his wife. He is using her vulnerability against her, to get sex. If your boyfriend was sleeping with his ex before, what is to stop him for continuing to do so?
> 
> He can still visit his children without sleeping over! Your boyfriend's behaviour is also unfair to the children-very confusing!


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi again, thanks for your comments FirstYearDown and Entropy. With regard to my (soon to be ex) husband, it's true that it's taken me some time to work through this. Just a few weeks ago I was still wondering whether I had made the right decision. But now I know that the doubts were mainly a product of my not having been back to my old home and not having seen him for more than two days since we separated early this year. I recently visited and realized that it is truly over. 
Regarding my current partner: believe me, I am not only not convinced that he is sleeping with her, I'm convinced that he isn't. I admit, however, that part of what makes me uncomfortable is how easy it would be for them to start or have the occasional lapse. We talked about this again and he said I just have to trust him on this. I told him that I trust him to the extent that I trust myself, and in that situation I am not sure how easy it would be for me to stay neutral. But the real issue for me is not sex. The real issue for me is that he cannot accept having a relationship with his children that would separate them from that family context they have always known. Being in her space with them is also being in *their* space and allows him to visit with them in relaxed, normal way by allowing them to do the things they usually do at home. Until now, he's been able to be there for them as a father without disrupting their lives in the usual ways that divorce does, forcing them to divide their time between one place and another, and I think that maintaing that semblance of "normalcy" is his number one priority regardless of what I think. To me- and I could be wrong- this is about her only to the extent that having a smooth, "normal", non-hostile relationship with her while he's there (and when talking on the phone about the kids, which he does regularly) is essential to maintaining that model. I think he's afraid that visiting with them in a hotel hotel room or in public spaces (even if he could afford this, which is truly a problem) would be so strange and weird for them that both the kids and he would just be miserable whenever he visited. I understand this. But I guess I am just very confused about where I stand on it. My reservations: 

-Since she really has not gotten over him yet and he knows this, he is only causing her pain by being there in these circumstances. Yet he is willing to do this because he feels that the children's happiness comes before anything else, even the discomfort this causes her. What do I think about this? I do not know. It seems intuitively wrong, but rationally it does seem that the children should come first. Also, he knew that she was not really over him when they were sleeping together, but accepted the situation anyway because it made being with the children easier for him and for them. She repeatedly assured him that she was fine with the situation and knew it was "only sex" and that he might meet someone any day- which he did once before he and I got together. But he knew deep down that she was not over him and allowed the situation to continue. I talked to him about this a lot when we first got together and asked him how he could do that. He said they talked about it openly and he believed her when she said she knew what she was doing & would be fine, but that now he sees that probably that was a mistake. 

-Regardless of the effect on her, I don't know how to wrap my mind around the fact that he and his ex still offer their children a united "family" front. It seems to be keeping alive an emotional relationship that should be neutralized now that he's with me. But again, at a rational level I don't understand why this should bother me so much. Is it really that confusing for the children that he be spending his visits there? They know me and like me. They know that I'm their father's girlfriend. We did a weekend vacation with them together with them, without her, and had a great time. So it must be clear to them that his relationship with their mother is not romantic. And yet...and yet...I still feel upset about the situation and don't know why. Divorce seems to lead to this kind of imperfect situation, after all. The bottom line is that, for him, it is in the kids' best interest that he and his ex relate to them as a united front and I should understand that this IS only about the kids and not about him and his ex. This means that my feeling threatened and uncomfortable with the arrangement is coming from my own insecurity, not from any real threat. And my question is: what IS the real threat that their arrangement poses to me, at a level deeper than sex? I am still having trouble articulating that to myself...


----------



## Entropy3000

Maybe you could go along and spend the night with him in her house.


----------



## FieryHairedLady

A real threat to you, besides sex, is that you could build a life around him and he is not giving you himself 100%.

He could also eventually decide to leave you and go back to them.


----------



## FirstYearDown

*Shaking My Head.*

SeekingClarity, you are well aware that your boyfriend's attachment to his ex and giving his children false hope IS WRONG, or else you would not have posted here. Yet you are allowing him to influence your intuition, by listening to his selfish excuses.

If I had listened to my intuition at the beginning of my twenties, I would not have stayed in an unhealthy "relationship" for nearly two years.

At the end of the day, it is *your *choice what you put up with. You came here for advice and we have all told you that your boyfriend is being unfair to EVERYONE. 

Why do you insist on defending him?


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hello again, hmmm...I am not trying to defend him. Sorry if it sounds like I am! Truly, I am not. I am just thinking out loud and trying to understand on what basis I can legitimately say that this is wrong if (and as I say, I do believe this) he and she are not having a sexual relationship. THAT is why I posted here; because - you're right about intuition- I intuit that this is wrong, but cannot really figure out why. Please tell me WHY you think he's being unfair to everyone. His children know me and know and that we are a couple, and also get along well with me, so in what way is his staying with them at their house giving them "false hopes"? Please bear in mind that I do not have children, so maybe this is apparent to everyone else here who knows how childrens' minds work, but it isn't to me. His ex: yes, I do agree that he's being unfair to her BUT again, his view here would be that as long as she is ok with it, if it's the best the for the kids then that is what should be gone. I am NOT trying to argue, just trying to get to the root of what it really is that bothers me. I'm sorry if I seem like such a knucklehead...I'm just confused and have for some reason lost my perspective  I have never been in this kind of situation before and, with two siblings who went through bad divorces, know how horrible it can be for kids whose parents don't get along after they split up. Anyway thank you for continuing this dialogue! It really is helping me to slowly see things more clearly. Entropy: she did invite me to go there and hang out with all of them, but I felt it would be strange to do so the very first time she and I and the children had all met, so declined. Her apartment is VERY small, which makes it awkward for me & also I think I would somehow feel like I'm just there to "control" him. He says of course we could always do this together & that we could stay in a hotel each time we did, but realistically if I get one of the jobs I've applied for it will not be feasible for me to use all my vacation time in this way (I need that vacation to visit family in the US!). Also, the one time we stayed in a hotel and it was really not optimal. His ex lives in a small tourist town where the hotels under 100 euro/night are all extremely small and depressing. We could barely move around the room ourselves & couldn't take them there so ended up outside almost all the time. And then in the evenings he was either with me or with them at his ex's place as they got ready for bed. He also says that of course during holidays (say, Christmas eve and/or day) of course I would be included. But anyway, FirstYearDown, I'm still thinking about what you say about intuition. Maybe it all just comes down to that...maybe I should just accept what my intuition is saying even though I don't fully understand it. ...


----------



## FirstYearDown

SeekingClarity said:


> Hello again, hmmm...I am not trying to defend him. Sorry if it sounds like I am! Truly, I am not. I am just thinking out loud and trying to understand on what basis I can legitimately say that this is wrong if (and as I say, I do believe this) he and she are not having a sexual relationship. THAT is why I posted here; because - you're right about intuition- I intuit that this is wrong, but cannot really figure out why. I suggest that you think about why you feel that this is wrong...write it out if you have to. My guess is you actually feel they could be sleeping together; didn't you mention being afraid of a lapse occuring?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please tell me WHY you think he's being unfair to everyone. His children know me and know and that we are a couple, and also get along well with me, so in what way is his staying with them at their house giving them "false hopes"? Please bear in mind that I do not have children, so maybe this is apparent to everyone else here who knows how childrens' minds work, but it isn't to me. I may not have children, but I have a lot of experience with them, whatever that is worth. Despite the fact that the children accept that you are a couple, you are not their mother. If Daddy is still playing house with their mother, they may still have some hope that he will return to her. The ex wife is being led down a garden path, by her ex husband sleeping over WHILE HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND, which screams about who he is really loyal to!
> 
> 
> His ex: yes, I do agree that he's being unfair to her BUT again, his view here would be that as long as she is ok with it, if it's the best the for the kids then that is what should be gone. I am NOT trying to argue, just trying to get to the root of what it really is that bothers me. I'm sorry if I seem like such a knucklehead...I'm just confused and have for some reason lost my perspective  I have never been in this kind of situation before and, with two siblings who went through bad divorces, know how horrible it can be for kids whose parents don't get along after they split up. Anyway thank you for continuing this dialogue! It really is helping me to slowly see things more clearly. Entropy: she did invite me to go there and hang out with all of them, but I felt it would be strange to do so the very first time she and I and the children had all met, so declined. Her apartment is VERY small, which makes it awkward for me & also I think I would somehow feel like I'm just there to "control" him. He says of course we could always do this together & that we could stay in a hotel each time we did, but realistically if I get one of the jobs I've applied for it will not be feasible for me to use all my vacation time in this way (I need that vacation to visit family in the US!). Also, the one time we stayed in a hotel and it was really not optimal. His ex lives in a small tourist town where the hotels under 100 euro/night are all extremely small and depressing.Isn't the thought of your man sleeping with his ex even worse?? You can handle two nights in a crappy hotel, as long as you don't stay in there all the time! We could barely move around the room ourselves & couldn't take them there so ended up outside almost all the time. And then in the evenings he was either with me or with them at his ex's place as they got ready for bed. He also says that of course during holidays (say, Christmas eve and/or day) of course I would be included. But anyway, FirstYearDown, I'm still thinking about what you say about intuition. Maybe it all just comes down to that...maybe I should just accept what my intuition is saying even though I don't fully understand it. ...


----------



## CandieGirl

Since joining the site, I've found so many (almost identical) issues to the ones I have faced...

My H (then my BF) did that to me once, at the beginning of our relationship. He told me "I always stay there when I visit and I sleep in my son's room." I told him that if this was going to be a continual thing, him staying with the X (I'm on the East Coast, they're on the West Coast) that I would be breaking up with him. He did still go, but when he got there, he told them all (kids and X) that this was the last time he'd be staying there (much to her disappointment), he cut the trip short, and met me in Vancouver for the weekend. He assured me that it would never happen again.

Or I guess I could have just gone along with it and set myself up for a lifetime of "Well, you were OK with it the LAST time I went...!".

Eff that crap!


----------



## FirstYearDown

CandieGirl, you are my hero. I love a strong woman that doesn't put up with garbage.:smthumbup:


----------



## Entropy3000

I knew there would an excuse not to go along with him. There is an excuse for everything. Part of the fun I guess. The apartment is VERY small. Which is just right and cozy for them, but too small for his GF. Besides three in a bed can get very crowded for some folks anyway.


----------



## Jellybeans

You said you've been dating this guy for a year but just separated from your husband earlier this year and wrent even sure you made the right decision about separating up til a few weeks ago. So I will assume the guy you're dating was the Other Man in your marriage and the affair has made you insecure as well as how obvious it is to me and others reading this that your partner is stillsleeping with his ex wife. The very fact that he tellsyou he slept with her so long knowing full well she wasn't over him so he could get sex speaks volumes. That is so cruel on so many levels. You said it intuitively feels wrong and that's because...it is. I would run clear in the opposite direction of anyone who could so callously use their ex so coldly in order to satisfy their needs. Its sickening. And so wrong on so many levels needs. OP...get a divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CandieGirl

But anyway, when I look at the situation objectively I think: if I can believe that he is not having sex with her- which I can- and he and I have a good emotional connection- which we do- then why does it feel somehow like an emotional betrayal for him to be there with her and the children in the family atmosphere? *She is the mother of his children, after all, and if the only way for him to see the children is when she is there then why should I not be able to accept this for the childrens' sake?* He says the situation is painful for her (she is not over him and was very upset when he told her about me, even though she accepts it and has tried to communicate that to me) and that it certainly isn't ideal for him either. But I don't know, I don't know. Is it just going to be impossible to have a relationship with this man until his children move out of her place? Is there some other solution I could offer him?[/QUOTE]

What about YOU? Stop worrying about the 'mother of his children'...I put the kibosh on my H even saying "the mother of my children", as if it were some type of girl scout badge! So they had a couple of kids, big deal! In my experience, it's been a hell of a lot harder to NOT get pregnant!

This whole situation just reeks - It's complicated, there are excuses left, right and center for the behaviour. The only thing I get 100% from any of this is that you're unhappy with the situation. And only YOU can change it!


----------



## Jellybeans

CandieGirl said:


> What about YOU? Stop worrying about the 'mother of his children'...I put the kibosh on my H even saying "the mother of my children", as if it were some type of girl scout badge! So they had a couple of kids, big deal! In my experience, it's been a hell of a lot harder to NOT get pregnant!


I don't see anything wrong with someone saying "the mother/father of my children." It's true in fact, that some people are the mothers/fathers of peoples' children and it's not a "girl/boy scout badge," it's simply the truth. 

Nonethless--OP isn't happy w/ the situation and it is apparent why. Question is--what is she going to do about it...?


----------



## CandieGirl

Jellybeans said:


> I don't see anything wrong with someone saying "the mother/father of my children." It's true in fact, that some people are the mothers/fathers of peoples' children and it's not a "girl/boy scout badge," it's simply the truth.
> 
> Nonethless--OP isn't happy w/ the situation and it is apparent why. Question is--what is she going to do about it...?


I just can't stand the phrase I guess...it's too beatifying! My H used the term once...I remember saying "Oh, PLEASE...".


----------



## turnera

Why not invite yourself over?


----------



## Entropy3000

turnera said:


> Why not invite yourself over?


Lets see what she says. When I offerred that suggetsion she said the apartment was too small for all of them ...


----------



## Jellybeans

CandieGirl said:


> I just can't stand the phrase I guess...it's too beatifying! My H used the term once...I remember saying "Oh, PLEASE...".


Insecure about his ex?

*

Entrop & Turn--my bet is that won't happen (OP spending the night at ex-wife's house). That wouldn't work well with what is probably going on here...


----------



## Entropy3000

Jellybeans said:


> Insecure about his ex?
> 
> *
> 
> Entrop & Turn--my bet is that won't happen (OP spending the night at ex-wife's house). That wouldn't work well with what is probably going on here...


No doubt. I would not think it would. To be honest I can't comprehend how what is going on works. He has a wife who he is divorced from and a GF. They are separated by eight hours of distance. Poor guy.


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi, sorry it's taken me so long to write back. I had a job interview today & was totally preoccupied with that until now. So reading everyone's responses all I can say is that I think emotionally I am absolutely warped or abnormal. It is obviously crystal clear to everyone that what my boyfriend is doing is wrong. I think I need to do some serious therapy because my own confusion about this is starting to alarm me. 

"I will assume the guy you're dating was the Other Man in your marriage and the affair has made you insecure".

No, I guess I'm not being very accurate about my timeline. Our friendship didn't change into romance until (almost immediately, true) AFTER my husband and I had separated. It was just unfortunate timing. He was never the "other" man in my marriage and- incidentally- in 15 years I never cheated on my husband. 

"The very fact that he tells you he slept with her so long knowing full well she wasn't over him so he could get sex speaks volumes."

It's true that, objectively, it does seem cruel. I do not know why I cannot feel that...I still think, well, she was the one who proposed this arrangement and he says he DID constantly remind her that any day either of them could meet someone else and she always said "it's fine, it's really fine". And he is not a cruel person. He is a kind, emotional and open person....which is why I cannot understand it.

"The only thing I get 100% from any of this is that you're unhappy with the situation. And only YOU can change it!"
You're right. I guess the bottom line is that, regardless of why, I'm unhappy with how things are. It does not matter whether my unhappiness with the situation is the product of my own paranoia or some objective ethical standard that he is violating. If I cannot be happy with the situation- which is NOT going to change- then I have to let him go. Am I ready for this? No.


----------



## SeekingClarity

PS: 
I may not have children, but I have a lot of experience with them, whatever that is worth. Despite the fact that the children accept that you are a couple, you are not their mother. If Daddy is still playing house with their mother, they may still have some hope that he will return to her. 

I think...I think the problem for me is that he IS still with her in every way except sexually, as far as the children go. Although he doesn't discuss emotional or personal issues with her, he and she have chosen to "stay together" in the ways that affect the children, which mainly means getting along and doing things together with them. What this means for the children, however, is that they need not hope that the dad and mom are going to get back together: they already ARE together in the way that matters.

And aside from this, my other main problem is that he does not understand where I am coming from. I honestly think that he cannot understand it...NOT that he's being selfish. And that really DOES matter to me. It matters more to me that he understand me than that he sleep with his ex, actually (how strange is that?).


----------



## turnera

What it is, is that you want a relationship in which you feel like #1. You don't. You feel (I think) like he wants you but not enough to put YOUR feelings ahead of his.

Only you can decide if that's enough.

But let me tell you this: you're not even married yet. It's proven fact that what you get from your spouse, in terms of giving and caring, DECREASES proportionally the longer you are married. If he already puts himself ahead of you, it will only go downhill from here.


----------



## FirstYearDown

:iagree::iagree:

Listen to Turnera, she's really wise.

I wouldn't say that you are abnormal, but then I am not a shrink. As I mentioned before, I believe that you are just telling yourself lies.

The wife is telling herself that she is fine with being used for sex, but nobody is fine with that, when it comes to someone they still love. You said that she was not over your boyfriend, so how can she really be okay with their arrangement?

Counseling is needed, so that you can learn to be happy single, instead of clinging to someone who does not respect you or the relationship.

By the way, how was the job interview?


----------



## CandieGirl

Jellybeans said:


> Insecure about his ex?
> 
> *
> 
> The practice wife? You've gotta be kidding me...! :lol:


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi, I just wanted to say that I appreciate all of your comments & will answer as soon as I get over the flu I seem to have caught on the plane to my interview (which went really well!). Just to exhausted & eyes hurt too much to write more now. Back soon!


----------



## turnera

ugh! Plane, flu...I just got back from seeing Contagion!


----------



## FirstYearDown

*hands Turnera a paper mask.*


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi again, well...as time passes I am starting to feel bouts of anger between other periods of feeling remorseful at not supporting him or feeling guilty for my own insecurities. Right now I am definitely feeling angry. He is spending a three day weekend at the ex's & I have not heard from him by email or phone, except once when he briefly called and emailed two lines in response to a call from me. Other than that, he clearly is not thinking about me this Sunday night. I'm starting to realize that this situation is just too much for me. I feel a deep love and passion for him, but can also feel my heart closing in on itself little by little to protect against the pain of his misunderstanding and lack of empathy. It saddens me so much. If it's this bad now, when we've only just started, how is it going to be in two or three or five years? I feel so lonely and misunderstood.


----------



## FirstYearDown

At least you see that you deserve better. 

Do you plan on confronting this issue with him again, or are you ready to just cut your losses and move on?


----------



## turnera

clarity, he is eating cake. He has two women feeding him everything he could possibly want. He is on top of the world.

But you aren't.

Time to change your life. Time to be his - or at least, your own - priority again.


----------



## SeekingClarity

Thanks for the positive encouragement. This is very painful. I think there is no point confronting him or discussing what I want from him; it's just clear that we want/need different things. I am going to have to let him go.


----------



## FirstYearDown

*hug* It is very painful, when you have to walk away from a relationship. You learned something from all of this, which is the best aspect of bad experiences.

He will likely not take this very well and try to to convince you that you are wrong. Don't allow this man to weasel his way back into your life. You are worth more than his lies and disrespect.


----------



## Scannerguard

Okay, I haven't admittedly read every single response but I'll speak as a divorced father - 

If it's over, I see nothing wrong with a "birdnesting" arrangement.

What your man is doing is a form of birdnesting. . .he's coming into the "nest" where the kids live to help co-parent, rather than remove them from the nest into a less than suitable environment.

Now, to make things smoother, it would be more ideal if the ex-wife left most of the time, letting him parent (it seems we can't use the word babysit any more), but that may not always be ideal or possible. She should go shopping, get a haircut, go out for a drink, see her doctors, whatever, and just let him be with the kids.

I think the criticisms here fail to take into account the father's and kid's views, which are unique. The posters are only considering YOUR viewpoint. More often than not, in divorce, it is the father who is displaced. The children want to see their father. But the children want to be in their home. That is the eternal conflict they live with post-divorce

It's the women in everyone's lives (Moms, Girlfriends and Stepmoms) who refuse to pay homage to this conflict, give it the respect it deserves, and just let it be. The kids will be grown soon enough.

I'd like you to entertain the idea that kids want to see their father and not have to visit him in a cooped up motel room.


----------



## turnera

I just think that the OP should let him go be with his ex and kids, since that's what he's most caring about.


----------



## Scannerguard

Well, what I found alarming about this thread, and why I tried to insert it in there, is it's all about the Poster and her needs and is he sleeping with the ex. . .is he not? The OP is still married, or whatever. Blah, blah, blah. . .I saw no discussion anywhere about the kids.

I'll tell you what Judge Judy would say:

SHUT UP! QUIET! OR I'LL PUT MY FOOT IN YOUR TOOKUS!!!

What do the kids want? Do they want to visit Dad in a small motel room? He lives 8 hour away? Do they want to travel to Dads? Summers? Birdnesting?

Anyone here considering their viewpoint?

Now I do agree the ex-wife should make herself as scarce as possible when he's visiting. She should go take a powder somewhere, preferabbly just go spend the night somewhere else. That's not always possible. If that's the case, I see nothing wrong with the dad camping out in one of the kids rooms.

The GF should be allowed to come in and "audit" behavior.


----------



## turnera

Agreed.

But that's not happening, is it? 

He is refusing to consider OP's feelings in this, and his ex AND the kids are getting more of him than his GF.


----------



## SeekingClarity

Hi, thanks for your comments Scannerguard. I think though that perhaps you misunderstood my post because ALL I have been thinking about is my boyfriend's children and how we can possibly have a relationship that is comfortable for me AND one that respects his need to be with his children in the way and place that is best for them. If I didn't care about that then I would never have been confused in the first place & would simply have gotten angry with him for not taking my needs into account and then left. My issue has never been his relationship with his childre, which I support and applaud, but rather his decision to maintain a united front with his ex as though they were still together. We are not talking about just simply being cordial; he and she do everything together with the kids when he is there and when they are asleep they hang out and talk, have a glass of wine, whatever. It's his inablility to have a great relationship with his kids independently of her that bothers me. I wrote earlier that:

The real issue for me is that *he cannot accept having a relationship with his children that would separate them from that family context they have always known*. Being in her space with them is also being in *their* space and allows him to visit with them in relaxed, normal way by allowing them to do the things they usually do at home. Until now, he's been able to be there for them as a father without disrupting their lives in the usual ways that divorce does, forcing them to divide their time between one place and another, and I think that maintaing that semblance of "normalcy" is his number one priority regardless of what I think. To me- and I could be wrong- this is about her only to the extent that having a smooth, "normal", non-hostile relationship with her while he's there (and when talking on the phone about the kids, which he does regularly) is essential to maintaining that model. I think he's afraid that visiting with them in a hotel hotel room or in public spaces (even if he could afford this, which is truly a problem) would be so strange and weird for them that both the kids and he would just be miserable whenever he visited. *I understand this. *

The problem doesn't go away just because I understand it, though. As I have said repeatedly, for me the issue is NOT about whether or not he's sleeping with her. For me the issue is whether or not he has actually left her at, in the ways that matter even more than sex. I finally realized that it doesn't matter how understanding I am of the situation- and believe me, I do understand and support his decision to be there for his kids. It just isn't going to work for me to be in a relationship with someone who is still sharing half of his emotional self with an ex whom he has know for almost thirty years. He wants to do what is right for his children, which means for him sort of not really leaving his ex on many levels..emotionally and (certainly in the past, and possibly in the future) physically. I can understand that, but I can't live with it. I need more.


----------



## turnera

There's a poster on another forum who divorced her husband after he wouldn't stop drinking, and a bunch of other things; he simply was never 'there' for his wife; she was convenient, you know? She's a super super sweet person, gives to everyone, all that. Anyway, fast forward to a year post divorce, and she and her ex have slid into a comfortable relationship of hanging out, going out on dates (since they have no one else to go out with), even going on vacation together with the kids. It wasn't until this month, when he showed his true colors, that he was still the same old guy - looking for everyone to provide what HE needed, that she realized that she had slid right back into her provider role for him; and he not only allowed it, but encouraged it.

She's now having to un-entangle herself from him all over again.

It's not healthy. Especially not for anyone who might be dating one of them.


----------



## girl friday

Gosh what a situation to be in. The thing that alarms me from what I have read is more the fact that the b/f won't take your feelings about this seriously. I don't feel it is normal behaviour and if they are apart permantly then the children need to understand this and accept this. It does the children no good to be in a "fairy tale place" where they see their parents together and their family intact, which in reality is not the truth. And it is very confusing for them. 

I would be seriously uncomfortable with this situation. My partner did long distance with his kids for about 2 years and during that time we had them with us at school holiday time and they intergrated into our family.

If your b/f is serious about making a future with you then he has to put you first and create a strong relationship with you and part of that is understanding your concerns. You can not be emotionally connected to two people at the same time so he has to untangle himself from his ex and concentrate on connecting with you and his kids as a family unit.

Good luck don't let yourself be walked over. Trust your intuition and go with it.


----------



## alsoseekingclarity

Hi Seeking clarity,

I have a similar post. It looks as though you choose to work things out with your BF on this issue. How is that going? Do you feel he is being honest and do you feel that he respects you?

I do not want to leave my BF but I also do not want to be used. I am having a hard time with the same situation and you are the only one I know of in the same position.

My BF's daughtersw live in Florida and we are in NH. I just found out that he stays at her house when visiting even though he has relatives close by there. How are you coping?


----------



## turnera

The poster hasn't been back in 6 months.


----------



## chantiq72

CandieGirl said:


> But anyway, when I look at the situation objectively I think: if I can believe that he is not having sex with her- which I can- and he and I have a good emotional connection- which we do- then why does it feel somehow like an emotional betrayal for him to be there with her and the children in the family atmosphere? *She is the mother of his children, after all, and if the only way for him to see the children is when she is there then why should I not be able to accept this for the childrens' sake?* He says the situation is painful for her (she is not over him and was very upset when he told her about me, even though she accepts it and has tried to communicate that to me) and that it certainly isn't ideal for him either. But I don't know, I don't know. Is it just going to be impossible to have a relationship with this man until his children move out of her place? Is there some other solution I could offer him?


*What about YOU? Stop worrying about the 'mother of his children'...I put the kibosh on my H even saying "the mother of my children", as if it were some type of girl scout badge! So they had a couple of kids, big deal! In my experience, it's been a hell of a lot harder to NOT get pregnant!*

Candygirl... love your quote there.. you're rock!!! :iagree: :iagree: :smthumbup: :smthumbup:


----------

