# A bad situation???



## Baanlotus (Apr 13, 2012)

I am in a predicament or a situation that I am watching I suppose it's like watching a film but you are in it.

I will try and start at the beginning and it may seem a bit, bitty..

Before I start, I have to say that my son, in a nutshell does not seem to be 'normal' but my husband has been reading a lot about 'sociopath' he has in interest in how we tick or not in some cases. By reading and watching YouTube and experts he has noticed the traits in a sociopath he is seeing in our son, but of course he may not be one. I am seeing personality disorder and a bully - that's just a brief idea of where I am heading and he is also a compulsive lier

I have a Son who lives in Thailand, he is more or less married but it's not formal as in registered, but they did have the Buddhist Ceremony, he has two children. He is almost 29, his wife will be 31 this year. The children are 3.5 and almost 20 months.

We live next door, bad idea I now realise as we had no idea how bad things were between them, we have lived in Thailand 4 years end of this month.

so, right to the beginning.

Just over 4 years, we found out we were going to be grandparents first grandchild and my son would be getting married well have the Buddhist ceremony which he did not really want, but done it. During this time, it came up there was some land for sale and that we could have a house built and a very modern Thai - Balinese style as our lease was coming to an end and we did not want to stay where we were, we thought why not give it ago or maybe we allowed ourselves to be persuaded at that time, but we thought why not, at least whatever happens we will own our house, this was the beginning of credit crunch.

We arrived end April, rented in same block of apartments as them and all seemed fine while we sorted out villa build etc. We started to notice that our son was not at all helpful to our daughter in law to sum it up cold. In June he had to return to the UK for visa and work, but there was no work instead of coming home to his pregnant wife, who was very big for a Thai girl, he just stayed for two months doing nothing.

By the end of august, we heard they had their first argument which went on for nearly three days, it was so bad even the security of the apartment was hovering around.. I thought he was going to kill her figure of speech, but I cannot describe what I heard and was very shock especially as she was pregnant, this was the beginning of their life for us to see.

The arguments have been very bad verbally almost to the point of my son losing control last year, he just got her laptop and trashed it on the floor so much force, the laptop was warped, talk about frighten the life out of me, thankfully my grandson was with us when this happened, as I knew they were argument, being next door, I locked the gate so he could not go back and witness these violent arguments although obviously I cannot protect him all the time, but whether I was right or wrong, as a grandparent, I had to make a decision.

A few weeks prior to this massive argument which went on to the next day although not a violent verbally, my son came home from work and they had cable TV put in, the Thai worker, put yellow pvc pipe on the wall which did look a bit un slightly, but Thais do things their way.. he walked through the gates went straight over and just pulled the lot of the wall, this was seen by my husband and the president of the village, there was no reasoning in him, not that well its wrong we can get him out to lower it, he just went mad. I did mention that he did not need to do that and he could of rang to ask the man to take it down, but even on that, my son could not understand what I was saying and all he could do was justify his actions it was wrong, and I told her what she needed to the the cable man.

My son raises his voice so loud that he actually sounds there is something wrong with him, so much so, that when I pointed out that everyone can hear him and the president of the village, he turned around and said, that's good everyone can hear me...

He also makes a point of arguing in front of me, if I am doing something, even when I walked round once, his wife said your mums here, his attitude so what, I don't care if my mum hears, his anger control is like he has been taken over. A massive argument when the baby was born in front of her mother. At this time also, I noticed the baby's nipple was looking infected no matter how many times I mentioned it, he was not bothered until in the end she did have an infection which was treated.

He has argued in front of her cousin and did not care, he has argued in front of her mother he does not care. In fact when he pulled of the cable, her cousin was there, then her mum visited and she would of seen the cable left lying on the floor.

Whenever she wants something done and asked, he will just not do anything, so she does get annoyed, and fed up which will end up her being a bit snappy, then the arguments start and he literally twists everything single thing and says it's her fault, she goes on, if should did not go on, there would be no arguments.. the times he has also told her to get out of his house.. and he truly believed at the time it was his house and he had rights.. he has hardly paid any money towards the mortgage, his work only seems to last 5 to 6 months and its always the company he works for fault, although on this last job, for once I think he may be telling the truth as they were trying to promote a new product and money run out so he says. What I am trying to say, she has no control over her house, although he cannot kick her out and has no claim whatsoever, although she is not like that, she believes it's both their house, so much so, had they sold it he could of got a cut of the profit.

At least a year ago, she asked him to sort the tap out, he just ignored it, so the tap was tapped to the wall with that brown packaging tape and only today as they are away, she has asked my husband to fix it as well as with a problem in the bathroom sink tap.

The house was beautiful when new, now it looks awful, ants ate some of the skirting away and its now there are two holes one quite large. He starts something then leaves it and takes months to finish it, and even thou he finished painting months and months ago, there is duc tape still on the wall discolouring where it's been there. The outside has bubbles where the paint is coming off, been like it for ages, will he sort it no, and it's getting worse... the ceiling has black mould on where its leaking, will he clean it, it is wipe able, as we get it, and it's a common problem here with leaking roofs, steel expands and contracts due to the sheer heat..

His latest idea is to build an extra room which he is capable with that, he is a brickie by trade, but it will be a work in progress prob do a little bit then it will be left for months, as he puts extreme pressure on my daughter in law, to the extent of bullying, I expect she will give in.

He comes up with ideas that are so way off, you just give up listening to him his mind or brain does not function like what we call normal.. From what I have observed, broken is good, dirty is good, my daughter in law is not dirty, but goes with it. The settee stinks of children's wee, okay we all have had accidents, but he just don't seem to care of how many times my granddaughter does a wee on there, the same as their mattress on the bed it's starting to get awful..

There is lots more I could write, but trying to build up a picture..

Now to the children he has this warped idea that you let the children do as they please, no boundaries, allow them to climb because if you let them do it, they will stop doing it and will not want to, errr these are toddlers, and all that is happening and when they come into our house they will want to climb on the settee jump on the settee all he does is stand there, many times I have held my tongue. where this parental teaching is going our grandson is now showing behaviour problems as to him it is normal to do as you please.. the Thai way is to bring up children with respect, well mannered and when you are out the children are very well behaved, my sons way is very western but even so, what I am seeing is more in line with parents that live on a council estate that do not care.

The other problem is you cannot mention anything if you do, he will go against the grain ignore what you are saying even if you say, look letting kids climb sooner or later there will be an accident.. which could of happened a few weeks ago, whilst he was on the laptop, grandson climbed onto the kitchen unit took lid of rice cooker and the steam scolded his arm burned although luckily it was not a big burn but as they also cook with oil it could of been so much worse..

I do know you cannot be with kids all the time, but if the children were being bought up and encouraged not to do certain things which sensible parents do, I would not feel like I am living on a knife edge..

Going back to Oct 2009.. he went back to UK visa run when he came back he had an personality change, he was not at all interested in his son, all he did was really shout at him and he was just over one years old, he was full of anger he did not want his son around him, he then just kept going out for a few days he was not even interested in seeing his wife.. he then went back to diving but during his time at home as he was away up to almost a week, they were argument, so much so that by xmas she was thinking of leaving him she talked to us about this and we said whatever she did was up to her and we would not hold it against her as we could see so much of what was happening, she also explained she was talking to people who bought up kids on their own.. she explained their physical life was almost nonexistent - he was very un emotional which I also had seen as in lack of emotion, before we returned to uk for visa in Dec she had made arrangements for grandson to go and stay with his other Nan, she had decisions to make.. when we got back Jan she was pregnant again, a mistake! actually another mistake, first one was a mistake, but that was not her fault, my son in his warped mind, told her he could not have children, hence mistake, and at the point they have both told me they were about to split up.

Many times he has taken a lot of his anger out on the children more with grandson, so much so, that his agressive shouting has now started to affect him behaviour wise, there is a lot of anger in my grandson and when he looks at us you can actually see a lot of hate his eyes un believe ale, also where he has seen the arguments and other things, everything is now showing, to him to break something is good. He is very jealous of his sister, although we all made sure he would not get pushed aside, in fact we prob over compensated.. he will take stuff from his sister all the time if she is playing with something, he is also spiteful, now I had three children under 4 years old the age gap from first to last is 3 years 9 months and never when my children were young did I encounter what I am seeing but because he is seeing his day act in a way that is just not right, he is now copying.

I know my d in law at times has prob gone over the top and lost it well the best she can lose it as she is very quietly spoken or tried to get her point over, as well as being told by my son to get out of her house.. he has hit her and I am sure she said he had his hands round her throat at one time in front of their son. She also told me that January last year they had an argument and as she walked away he kicked her in the back, I was shocked, but know he can do this as when he was younger he has hit me twice in temper.. so I know she would not lie on something like this as she knows I could easily ask him in front of her, which what she tells me is between her and me.. but then talking to her the other night, it gets worse when things slowly get out.. when she was between 3-4 months pregnant he did not kick her but used his feet to push her off the bed....... she then went on to say but it was HER FAULT.. I said, what no man should do that to a pregnant women, it's just so wrong.

Then, more talking, she also mentioned to me how he was driving with the kids in the car how he would pull out quick on the U-bend, it did not surprise me as he jumped a red light with us and the baby in the car once, because it's the Thai way!.. she said she had recently told him to drive better and at the moment, I think he is doing this, but I will say his driving frightens me yet he has the nerve to say her driving is bad, yet she is very calm when she is driving and does not go mad.

From what I am observing he has full control and wont bend, to the extent she was saying about a problem with the pond what she wanted, that an argument started in the car and he started to go on one of his agressive arguments while driving the car with the kids in.. more shock for me that he could start to get out of control in the car. With the issue of the pond there was argument at the weekend, since then our grandson is reacting he is being agressive with us, and we have done nothing.. he also is unwell, and there has been a pattern when either my son really shouts agressive at him or they argue, he gets ill, he won't eat and now he is looking very thin yet again. It is not my imagination this pattern and whether anyone believes in a medium they do very much over here, this has been picked up by a medium who lives many miles away from grandson, when my daughter in law went to see a medium because he could not understand why the children kept getting ill, it works out that my grandson is very sensitive and when things happen that are bad, he just shuts down.

I will explain the issue with the pond.. we both had ponds at the entrance of our villas, our grandson was attracted to the water so we filled ours in.. which we then said fill yours in, but our son said no, he would make some kind of cover, which he did out of wood, it done the job, other than grandson had to have stitches coz a nail was not in properly.. moving on, the pond was still an attraction although safe, grandson would play with the water and drink some of it.. moving on about 18 months the wood started to perish, nails rusted so was coming loose at the joins, nothing was done, other than a block similar to breeze block put on top of the wood.. during this time granddaughter then started to go to the pond, play with the water and drink it.. her other Nan has also worried about the pond and the children getting sick esp. if rats peed in the pond.. so we had a saga of this pond should be filled in, months later the pond has been sorted and is covered with steel and looks good, and the children cannot get to the water and play, but why I am writing this is for two reasons, one my son just would not fill in and do the most practical thing that any responsible parent would do, he did not really care that the kids drank the water in fact he could not see any danger drinking the water and lastly because his wife wanted it filled in, he was adamant it would not be filled in.. but even so, why he could not of sorted the pond months before has been concern for us of the don't care attitude.

He will play with the kids but it's not like normal playing is so OTT that they or more so my grandson is sent on such a high it's very hard to bring him down, when they both were working we asked our son, please don't bring him round on a high, what did he use to do, bring him round on a high that it took all of the morning to ground him but what was not fair was that we also had to keep on and on not to do this, not to do that, these actions of our son were just not normal, there is a big difference with playing with your children without taking them so high they esp. my grandson are showing being disturbed.

Our grandson came round yesterday and on the table there are those hand exercise things that you squeeze he picked them up and just banged them down hard on the table, he looked at us hatefully and then to make matters worse he would not speak either to myself or husband, my hubby is very soft and very rarely will tell the kids off, other than to get down, don't climb but in a normal voice, I am more firm but without shouting as children do need that firmness but also balance. The ignoring has been like this since whatever went on in their house Sat night.. sometimes he will do something and look at his dad and he also at times looks nervous, but unfortunately whatever is going on in his little brain or mind, we are getting the brunt of his anger and just don't understand why.. and it won't be long until his sister follows his ways at the moment she copies everything..

Another situation, we have a table outside, she likes all children likes to sit on the chairs, but then she will stand up and shake the chair, try and climb on the table or go and sit on the arm of the chair, what does my son do, just sit there I have to be the one to get her to sit down, or take control this is not normal behaviour!

Another situation we went with our son to take grandson modelling and there was like an adventure playground, like all kids he wanted to walk up the slid, the side was a bit low, my son was further away, I said look has too close to the edge, my son replied.. has a kid if he falls, he falls, this was like a 4 foot to 5 foot drop.. to say I was gobsmacked is an understatement.. if I say anything I there will be a massive argument because my son is just not capable bringing up children sadly.

What I think is unfair at the moment, our son is playing extremely Mr. nice guy well almost and I am not sure how long he can keep this up.. but also, how he acts in front of me or us, is very different how he is acting in front of his wife, I know he is playing the manipulating game.

The other day, my granddaughter seems to be acting strange and I got worried she has been unwell since she drank some pond water and I said, look she's not well, he said oh and went on to do the pond.. then another day she fell over and we both have concrete floor with porcelain tiles and are very slippery at times he just picked her up held her out away from him and plonked her onto the carpet, she looked at me started walking to me with her arms out all she wanted was some comfort, sadly this is another problem with our son, there is no kissing the children, he will carry them, there is no cuddles no emotion..

When he was young he had the cuddles, etc but like all kids he got to an age that he decided he did not want it.. he does have issues with me and even his dad, out of the three kids, he was the one that got more, he even one had a go at us and blamed us for the way he was because he had no cousins, that was not our fault, I don't have any as I am an only child of an only child my husband's family, his mother died when young so things just drifted, so it was just us we had no help or back up from family because we did not have any and it's been very hard dealing with our son. Wherever we have lived he has caused us grief, had the police round, he did have clinical depression and went on Prozac for a while then later in life, he took drugs just to see what they were like. Part of me thinks the drugs have messed him up more than what he was, but then we see the manipulation or him trying to play divide and conquer as there have been many times that his wife has supposed to of said something when she has not but enough that things could of ended up in an argument.

I know this seems to be all over the place but so much is being recalled as I write,... we then 3.5 years ago start to have house built, the builder it seems was not quite sure of some things we wanted and in time the house was not being worked on, but rather than fall out and have any problems I just said see how it goes, which is fair enough, we were paying cash and he had a vast amount of our money, so the house is up, but the roof tiles are not very good, so what did our son do, go off on one when we also said, don't have a go.. although at that point for once by doing his nut we ended up with a different builder, but then because things in our son mind were not being done to what he wanted esp. with the pond, bloody poxy pond lol.. he really went off on one and told them all to F off including the solicitor that done the contracts and was looking at the situation like to calm things down, if they had walked off yet again we would of lost even more money.. In a foreign country you do not act like a loud mouth out of control brit, there are ways to do things.. 

As things stand now, he is getting worse, his thinking is getting worse.. he gets away with everything and is a bully, shows no emotion at all - she said the other day she is worried that if she does moan he will start getting angry again so in reality she is treading on eggshells.

From the age of 13 all our son has done is mess up and has never once learnt by his mistakes or actions and all we are seeing is children at risk through lack of parental control or even logic. The boy, becoming disturbed and will follow his dad with his dads warped mind, we cant do anything as it will be classed as interfering and to be honest how can you reason with a mad person as this is the way he is portraying himself to us and even his wife when he is not playing games. 

He gets things into his mind of what he wants and he wants the big one to come along i.e. job and money but instead of doing things slowly he has weird ideas which she has seen this too and starts living in some non reality world, he then also seems to pick weird people to hang around that manipulate him which we saw last year one bloke that played him along and during this time he changed even more and was worse to his wife with his attitude because he thought this guy wanted him to help him with doing a housing project and even on that he threw it all back at her of how great he was because they wanted him!

There is probably loads more I could write but 6 pages on word is enough lol.. all I know is there is nothing we can do other than get right away from here which we are trying to sell the house so we are not next door and then rent in the same village.

I am not sure anyone can give any advice, but would like to hear if anyone has experienced anything similar whether being grandparents, parent, wife husband of attitude to what we are seeing.

It is a sad situation as not only that, when her first child was born and had to return to work after two months at home her dad died and she was very close to him and he was her rock so to speak where she would go to him for advice now she has no one, and even when he died and she was working coping with the funeral arrangements with her mother, then going to work.. our son gave her no support whatsoever, even to where dirty smelly nappies were left in the kitchen with other stuff in the bin and not even doing the washing up... in all honesty he just did not care.

He just thinks if funny if you approach him on the odd time you can of how the kids are acting and that's its okay for them to act the way they do.. its just beyond me.

No parent gets it right but what i am seeing there is just no logic at all.

I am at the end, I feel like a nervous stressed nan and cant take anymore

Thank you for reading


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello,

Before I begin let me preface this with the fact that the advice offered below is based on generalizations and as such may not fully apply to you. Take from it what you need.

The patterns of behavior that you described in your son are quite dangerous and may be linked to entitlement issues. 

If during his childhood he was given everything he wanted and allowed to get away with bad behavior this may have contributed to his current state. 

It is likely that his underlying problem is that he hates himself as much as he hates people around him. It is possible that during his formative years he was not able to experience the fulfillment of building something or good positive progress in areas which is consistent with an upbringing where parents try to give their children all they apparently want. If that is the case it is likely that as he progressed he tried in his own ways to find this fulfillment in life and as you mentioned turned to drugs as well, the resulting overwhelming feeling inside him is likely the lack of fulfillment and the coping response is anger and hate. 

Unfortunately what you describe is clear cut psychological abuse of your daughter in law bordering on physical. Furthermore his children, your grand children, are now in their formative years and there is a very high probability that they will pick up serious psychological problems in that abusive environment. 

Therefore it is imperative that you support your daughter in law and your grand children in getting away from him as soon as possible. 

The standard advice I suggest in cases of abuse is to quickly and abruptly get away from the abuser with the help of the police if need be. I would advise that the only way an abuser be allowed back in contact with the abused is with the accord of two psychiatrists, one who will treat him and another for a second evaluation. 

The reasons for the above advice are as follows. In his current state he likely actually derives a measure of warped fulfillment in bullying and abusing. When he does this he may actually feel a bit better about himself and will continue to do so especially if he is encouraged by you and his wife backing down. An abrupt and decisive change is required to break this self reinforcing destructive cycle. Furthermore a common misconception among family is that he will change or that you can help him. The truth is that the best help you can give him is to encourage him to see a specialist. You do not have the training nor the responsibility to deal with his condition, a psychiatrist or at least a psychologist has.

I do realize that in such cases implementing the advice above is usually quite difficult for those involved. Please keep in mind that if you do execute this properly you will not only help your grand children and daughter in law but you will also give your son the best chances to seek help and change his behavioral patterns for the positive.


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## Baanlotus (Apr 13, 2012)

Hello FreedomCorp,

Thank you very much for your reply somethings you have mentioned has shocked me with the warp sense of fulfilment but makes so much sense at the same time.

I do understand its like a fix and that fix may get stronger, and even last year, he went to lash out or kick his daughter out of the way because he was angry, my daughter in law saw this i think she stopped it or something my mind a bit vague but something almost happened.

We all live in Thailand and over here, from what I understand there is no counscelling as far as I am aware or the odd place, but the problem then is trying to convince my son he has a problem as from his point of view it is everyone elses fault.

I know I have to tread very careful with this situation as he is very capable of turning our daughter in law against us, even though she has seen the things she has seen..

I have told her a few times it is only going to get worse not better even though as I think I have mentioned he is being Mr Nice guy at the moment, infact too nice to how he has been over the last 3-4 years of what we have seen.

Thank you once again for your reply


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## Baanlotus (Apr 13, 2012)

I am writing a bit more as i just need to write as it helps and anyone reading who has been where i am or similar I dont mind more views, although I do believe Freedomcorp has said it all in a nutshell I have been thinking more on what has been said and when I woke up this morning even though I knew myself what is happening in the situation, and to hear someone say the word danger, I do feel kinda shocked.

My obstable now is, how do I convince my d in l of the danger/s, I have tried several times to explain what I have seen etc and mentioned many times that the children are at risk and that their safety is first and foremost to the extent she has to put her children first. I have also mentioned it looks like she does not care about the children because nothing is done, but that I DO NOT mean they should split up but to take control of her children after all she is the mother and it should be normal reaction to want to protect her children. At the moment all I can say is, she is not really doing anything even though she can see the problems. The last thing I want is any arguments or my son makes the situation worse by more manipulation..

When we had problems with the pond and us agreeing it should be filled in, from what i can understand all my son could think about was that we were getting one over him not in those words as we have language difference but I knew what she meant and she a couple of time mentioned about it being a game, but mum she said, you care its not a game is it... so on that I have been wondering what the hell has my son been saying.. I do not want to score points, I want a happy ending for everyone. The other thing she failed to see even though the pond does look good the way it got done in the end, is the pond attracts the kids as it is still a pond although safe, but next to the pond is a concrete seat, that my granddaughter climbs on esp when she is left to her own devices and my son is watching tv or on laptop he stays at home while she works, is still a problem unless he starts watching and making sure she is not down there.. I am being positive that hopefully she wont climb and he will be more responsible.

A silly thing the other weekend they went away and went walking up on higher ground, grandson has picture taken right at the edge where there was a massive drop no Idea how big the drop was but he made a point of staying on it was a really big drop there, all it needed is my grandson to get excited on that edge.. I am not over reacting, I actually ignored what he was saying as he would of found it funny my reaction, when he was showing me the photo and mentioned the drop he was doing his stupid laugh!

I know at the moment he is manipulating my d in l that we are the bad ones, and that we hate him or I hate him, which is so untrue, esp with all the help we have given him, loaned him money and even now if he wants me to bake something I will.. so I am just at a loss. He is the youngest of three and thankfully the other two are very well adjusted. I can look back and see where he manipulated us, making us feel guilty because his friends had parents with money we did not, we did buy him nik trainers and some designer tops like nik funnily enough once he went to work and saw the price he would think it was great to buy a normal 10 pound shirt.. so I do know he is working on her.. as he cant work on us anymore thankfully.


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## BeStrongtoday (Apr 15, 2012)

Hello,
What a long read there was a lot to take in.
Like you have said FreedomCorp has really said it all.
I am in my sixties so have seen a lot of life and can only say your Son will not change unless he takes heed and gets some kind of help.
I would ask your DIL to see if there are any counselling therapists in the area that you are living that understand other cultures , I am assuming she is Thai due to the Buddhist connection as I do not think you said she was Thai, so much to read. I believe Thailand is still a man's world, where women still do as they are told or submit to their husband/partner etc. 
As you know your sons history and I doubt he would even want you there, it would be wise to go with him if you can, as when you have to start looking at yourself, you can become very selective and leave out a lot of things or issues that have happened. If there are no therapist perhaps it would be wise if he can go back home stay with relatives or friends to get help, although with taking that route, you would be able to be with him.
At the moment her priority should be her children because of the damage it is starting to do and it will not get any better, even if things seem fine, from what you have written about your Son, you cannot just change overnight especially if you have not dealt with the problems or even know there is a problem. Those rages will still be there and he will need to find out why he has these rages, why does he lash out at his wife, why does he seem to lack the responsibility of making sure the children are told right from wrong, why does he allow them to end up in dangerous situations? 
Your DIL really needs to wake up to what is going on and not allow herself to be manipulated by his charm, as this is what he is doing in my personal opinion and how I have read your situation, there are many charmers out there women and men and many of their victims always believe the charmer that it is their fault, you only need to read in forums like this, in the end unless the victim wakes up, there is no happy ending, the victim gets trodden down and then see's there is no way out, then the perpetrator gets stronger then slowly but surely the children suffer the same fate and will either be like your Son or very mixed up adults.

Have you yourself ever tried to talk to your son?


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## Baanlotus (Apr 13, 2012)

Hi Bstrong..

No not recently.

I have in the past tried to talk to him on different matters infront of my DIL due to the violent arguments and lashing out etc, but you just cannot talk to him, he goes on the defence, then twists everything, then blames my d in l then he starts to raise is voice which then gets louder so in the end you cannt talk or reason.

When he trashed the laptop which she bought out of her money I think it was from the money her dad left her, at the point she said to me I dont want to be with him any more, we are like oil and water.. alas she stayed with him but sadly they just cant get to the stage of talking without any rows..

The other day she said to me she is holding her tongue even though she can get so mad at some things because if she says anything he will get mad.. she then went on to say, she is wondering if he is pushing her to say something so he can have a go back.. so she is very aware of the situation in that respect, she also said she is scared to say anything..

As a mother my son needs a sharp lesson as a mother in law I dont want to be seen interfering, but there are children involved big difference.

I have sat and read many peoples problems here and all those that cause problems are someones son or daughter whom in most cases have come from troubled backgrounds or are just born wired up different, I have read many of the situations of the in laws and it does your head in because you think what can you do..

So many things come back to my mind now, like when our granddaughter in hospital with bronchitus not sure spelling and then one day she was with other nan she stopped breathing and had a high tempreture we did not know this at the time until they returned thats my d in l and her mother it seems it could be something to do with dust.. I asked my son to clean the windows as they also had lots of mould on, coz of the humidity and that baby is always ill.. did he do it no.. my d in l came round and asked for the ladders I then asked could he help her and do the top windows did he do it no...

You just cannot ask him to do anything he would sooner ignore so when you ask again and again, I dont mean me, this is in general from my d in l, he then explodes..

I have never even known him to go and buy our grandchildren any cloths or at least give some money for some cloths, we have bought most of their cloths..

I really could go on and on, but what is the point, but for me it just feels nice being able to express what is happening.

I know deep down my son needs a wake up call and that means the kids going to live with my d in l mother and the massive family they have, I know you can never say they are safe as things happen even in the place where you think is safe, plus also I dont want to push for this because if anything happened it would then be my fault for pushing..

I think dammed if I do, dammed if I dont..

It could be a case of carry on monitoring the situation and see how it goes and how long he will carry on as you say and I never thought of my son as a charmer, to see how long he does his charm. The chidldren are away for two weeks now at her mothers so at least for me I wont be on edge.

Thank you for replying, I was beginning to think no one had read my situation other than Freedomcorp and perhaps had gone over the top or seemed to be interfering.


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