# Dreams and goals



## dungandyum

Hey everyone, you can call me Z. Been married five years, the Rocky beginnings that most deal with are already over. I love my wife very much, as well as our three children. 

We did things the backwards way. We were 18 and 19 when we meet, moved in together after three weeks. wanted to marry very shortly after but due to some uncontrollable circumstances (death in the family) we postponed for two years. Sorry after our wedding our first child was born. We had another about a year ago, and have another on the way right now. We purchased our first home last year, and uprooted and moved (still close to family, but away from the city). 

My question is this, we now have a better control on finances and more income, about 80k a year between the two of us. We both want to quash all of our debts quickly. 150k and we are on the same page for that. I'm 27 now and have sort of realized that I did things the hard way in life, but don't want to die thinking it was a mistake. (No regrets with my wife and children I just now understand better why people say wait). I now want more than anything to chase my career goals into a field that will require some significant dedication for a few years 3-4 with similar pay along most of the way. The cost of about 100k. The result would be 200k a year income, working fewer than 7 months of the year, great perks, great benefits, doing something I am passionate about ( but until recently felt was unreachable). 

Currently my wife complains about my schedule but it is sorry of necessary to earn the money that I do. She wants me home more, (I'm home daily) but she wants me off three days a week or wants me to work 9-5 Mon-Friday. After discussing my ambitions with her, I bring up the idea that in the mean time we can scrimp and save, I can work a side hustle, I can work extra ot can probably get my income alone up to 80k. I can quit probably all goals into consideration and cook them up inside of the next six years. I bring up that it will require sacrifice, working 80 hrs a week, pushing it to the limits, but that the payout is great. Well worth it. 

This sort of pissed her off. In her mind this was placing work in front of family. To me this is untrue, it is absolutely placing the interest of my family's future in consideration. I can set an example of success for my kids, pay for their college easily etc. But the idea that I'm sacrificing the time now (to me at least) is a consequence of doing things it of order that we must all suffer for the benefits of what I am seeking.

Am I being selfish? Is this asking too much? How can I convey what I am telling you to get in a way she can understand? Am I won't for feeling like my wife is trying to dash my dreams and hopes for myself and my family into the rocks?

TIA and sorry for the novella.

-Z


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## Mr.Married

Hey Z,

It's best to keep your post in one forum only. You can get better answers that way.


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## TheDudeLebowski

You are going to have to show her you can do both. The part about sacrifice is it doesn't come at the expense of everyone else in the family and not yourself. So here's the deal, if you are used to 8 hours sleep, plan to get 5 the next few years. If you golf every other Saturday with the Bros, now it's every other month for the next few years. Play 5 hours of video games a week, now it's 5 hours of video games per month for the next few years. 

Show her you CAN be family first, while simultaneously working toward your dream. You should be the one who sacrifices the most to obtain your dreams. As you say, the payoff is worth it in the end. Suddenly you will have free time again, and now with more money. 

How is your work/life balance currently, and what can you tweek it in order to assure her you will always put family first? She's not feeling it right now.


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## BioFury

As TDL pointed out, you need to show her that it's going to primarily be _your _sacrifice. They're your goals, so you should pay the price. What sometimes happens in marriage, is people get so caught up in things, that they forget about what really matters. 

A wife gets so caught up in simultaneously raising her kids and getting a degree, that she neglects her husband, and he winds up having an affair. A man spends so much time chasing his corporate dreams, that his wife hardly sees him anymore, and ends up leaving him for someone else. What does it profit a man or woman to gain the whole world, but lose his family?

So should you pursue this? Sure. But you're the one who will have to carry the extra weight - not your wife and family. While at the same time, making sure you maintain your relationships with them. Especially emotional intimacy with your wife. Don't lose touch with her, or your kids, or you may never get them back.


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## alte Dame

You are following a standard script here, and it is a recipe for problems down the line.

You have decided on your own what you need to do to provide for your family. Providing is not just financial, though. Providing is offering real security in other domains - emotional, physical, psychological. Are your children secure if you are never around to show your love for them?

Believe me, you will regret following this standard script of confusing personal ambition with selfless sacrifice for the family. Your wife will resent you forever for making unilateral choices about your lives together and your children will hold it against you that you were so rarely around.

It's your choice, though. As long as you are prepared to live with the consequences, you choose your own path. Most of us can and do.


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## 3Xnocharm

You seem to have come to the conclusion ALL BY YOURSELF that THIS PATH is the right thing to do. You are supposed to be in a partnership with your wife, so these decisions need to be made TOGETHER. She is already expressing concern and dismay at this, so you need to take her thoughts and feelings seriously. What you are talking about doing rips families apart, so it is imperative that you two be on the same page about this. Your marriage is only young once, and your children only grow up once. I admire your ambition, but this kind of success can come at a very deep cost.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Debt is hard on a family. Working your way out of debt is good for the family. Since debt requires interest payments, a little extra work to knock down principal really accelerates, and I men exponentially accelerates, your ability to overcome the debt. She appears to be comfortable carrying all that debt, which is an awful lot for a young family in your situation, but she needs to know that the harder you work, the sooner your family will have some control of your financial destiny. She needs to know you don't gain your freedom without some sacrifice along the way. It's great if you are willing to bear the brunt of that sacrifice, but it is a family issue and it's unreasonable if she thinks this can all be overcome without some sacrifice on her part as well. 

Eyes on the prize.


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## SunWhiskey

I feel the solution to your marriage falls somewhere in between. Finances tear many marriages apart. 

You both agree it should be paid off. The minimum payment is not ideal. How much of this debt is high interest?

Ask her what she thinks need to be done to tackle the issue. You are a team after all. She may be willing to cut down on expenses with you in order to keep you home more often.


The last thing you want is to work your ass off and pay down the debt, only to find out she's been hanging out with the neighbor Johnny the last few years while you were away because she resented your decision. Then you get to pay her alimony and child support. All your extra work for nothing, and now you face the world alone.


Right now, your goal is to get her to agree with your plan. She has clearly stated how she feels about it. Even if you get her to say yes, she WILL resent your choice. Your goal shouldn't be to change her mind, it should be to open your ears and find a solution that you both are happy with, even if it takes a few more years.


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## SunWhiskey

I forgot to mention:

I bet she has dreams too. I'm also willing to bet they don't include her spending extra time caring for the kids alone while you pursue your dreams.

What are they? Do you even know?


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## Casual Observer

dungandyum said:


> The result would be 200k a year income, working fewer than 7 months of the year, great perks, great benefits, doing something I am passionate about ( but until recently felt was unreachable).
> 
> -Z


I don't care about the rest of the post. I just want that job! 

(I think most anyone who's 63 and owns a brick & mortar retail business would probably say the same thing...)


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## TJW

dungandyum said:


> Am I won't for feeling like my wife is trying to dash my dreams and hopes for myself and my family into the rocks?


It's a time I remember all too well. We, by the grace of God, did not get married. My careers would have both been belly up and I would have had a life I absolutely hated, and a wife that I resented and blamed for the "on the rocks" condition.

Too young, too soon to get married, too different in our desires of life. Thankfully, it didn't happen. I viewed that she was my "enemy", too, but could never figure out why. In retrospect, she wasn't against me, she was just trying to create her own "dream life". 

I didn't understand why she wanted things her way, and she couldn't understand why I wanted things my way. Not enough maturity in either one of us.

If we had gotten together 10-15 years later, when my careers (or, maybe just one) were established, she might have then been able to be a SAHM and had all free time during the day while they were at school.


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## Casual Observer

I posted this a few days ago, and it may be relevant here, dealing with the long-term implications of choices you're making today. I think what you're talking about sounds like a great opportunity, but you need to be very careful not to fall into the traps such a path lays out for you. https://talkaboutmarriage.com/copin...riage-crisis-overthinking-3.html#post19888395



> Originally Posted by netgear64 View Post
> I tend to think (as well as her) that the disconnect is lack of excitement. We're too busy with the day-to-day mundane stuff (work/kids/etc.) that it tends to crowd out time just to have a one-on-one conversation, Because by the time we do in the evening, we're too tired and want to flop in front of a TV or go to bed.
> I'd like to think our marriage is solid. We have always been faithful, been respectful, appreciative and supportive of each other. She has been an excellent mother and I am so grateful to have her. We tell each other we love each other, everyday. We feel we have such a strong relationship already, which is why it's so concerning to me.


And there it is, close to where my wife and I were 20 years ago, setting things in place for a bunch of pain & "realignment" we've been going through recently. 

We had, and have, by all accounts, a "solid" marriage. Appreciative, respectful, supportive. But we were moving in separate worlds, each of us with our separate tasks. I had to "provide" for the family and she had to take care of the kids. Very little time for one-on-one conversation and besides, we were in different worlds, hers centered on the kids, mine centered on the business. She was a great mother. And frankly I kept a lot of stuff to myself that I shouldn't have, accepting substandard and reluctant levels of intimacy that developed a momentum of continuity. 

If this sounds at all familiar, make use of this crisis to change. Both of you. You need to find out about the things about you, and your relationship, that bother her but she doesn't think appropriate for some reason to tell you. And vice versa. It can be really, really, REALLY painful. When my wife and I hit an unexpected and major crisis a couple months ago, something that had caused me great angst (which I'm still dealing with) and caused her to say some really painful things to me, she wanted to leave for a few days so she wouldn't say anything further that might put our future in jeopardy. I asked that instead, we go out to dinner, each of us with a list of issues to go over, leaving nothing out.

That dinner was one of the most-painful experiences of my life. Her list tore me apart. I told her to be honest, and she was, but I just had no idea of the level of resentment for some things and how much she felt she had to become her own separate person because she was taking care of the kids and the house for 20 years because I was so tied to the business. And all that changed about 10 years ago, when I started including her in things, having special vacations, paid more attention to her needs. And it turned out that didn't matter because she tenaciously hung onto the role she felt she had been forced into, and there was simply no credit at all for the changes I'd made in the past 10 years.

Think about that. You can recognize your faults, work to change, do all the right things... and it might not matter at all. Because your partner is stuck in a time warp, not the same person you married but someone who evolved into something very, very different, something you let happen and it all seemed comfortable at the time. 

So that dinner, and her list. I didn't even get a chance to read mine. I was devastated. Those things she listed went straight through my heart. How could I have been so awful? I couldn't defend against the indefensible. I helped create the roles we played. But it was extrarodinarily unfair that it DID NOT MATTER THAT I'D TAKEN HUGE STEPS TO CHANGE THE PAST 10 YEARS!!! 

We're still in crisis mode. I'm doing everything I can to try and make myself something she looks forward to being with, doing something more than watching favorite TV shows together, having substantive conversations with. And it's not been easy because she's developed her own routines & rituals and when I suggest we do something different she gets upset at me "telling me what to do." Pretty sure we're going to come out of this OK but her resistance to change is as strong as my willingness (to change). She knows what it would take to be happier, but can't come around to doing it. It is so strange.

So yeah, if any of this sounds familiar, do something about it now. The thing on the train is pretty minor compared to your next 20 years. You have an opportunity to fall in love with each other all over again. Don't waste it.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

dungandyum said:


> Hey everyone, you can call me Z. Been married five years, the Rocky beginnings that most deal with are already over. I love my wife very much, as well as our three children.
> 
> We did things the backwards way. We were 18 and 19 when we meet, moved in together after three weeks. wanted to marry very shortly after but due to some uncontrollable circumstances (death in the family) we postponed for two years. Sorry after our wedding our first child was born. We had another about a year ago, and have another on the way right now. We purchased our first home last year, and uprooted and moved (still close to family, but away from the city).
> 
> My question is this, we now have a better control on finances and more income, about 80k a year between the two of us. We both want to quash all of our debts quickly. 150k and we are on the same page for that. I'm 27 now and have sort of realized that I did things the hard way in life, but don't want to die thinking it was a mistake. (No regrets with my wife and children I just now understand better why people say wait). I now want more than anything to chase my career goals into a field that will require some significant dedication for a few years 3-4 with similar pay along most of the way. The cost of about 100k. The result would be 200k a year income, working fewer than 7 months of the year, great perks, great benefits, doing something I am passionate about ( but until recently felt was unreachable).
> 
> Currently my wife complains about my schedule but it is sorry of necessary to earn the money that I do. She wants me home more, (I'm home daily) but she wants me off three days a week or wants me to work 9-5 Mon-Friday. After discussing my ambitions with her, I bring up the idea that in the mean time we can scrimp and save, I can work a side hustle, I can work extra ot can probably get my income alone up to 80k. I can quit probably all goals into consideration and cook them up inside of the next six years. I bring up that it will require sacrifice, working 80 hrs a week, pushing it to the limits, but that the payout is great. Well worth it.
> 
> This sort of pissed her off. In her mind this was placing work in front of family. To me this is untrue, it is absolutely placing the interest of my family's future in consideration. I can set an example of success for my kids, pay for their college easily etc. But the idea that I'm sacrificing the time now (to me at least) is a consequence of doing things it of order that we must all suffer for the benefits of what I am seeking.
> 
> Am I being selfish? Is this asking too much? How can I convey what I am telling you to get in a way she can understand? Am I won't for feeling like my wife is trying to dash my dreams and hopes for myself and my family into the rocks?
> 
> TIA and sorry for the novella.
> 
> -Z


I haven't read all posts but wanted to get this out there for your consideration and cogitation.

This is the age old topic, ancient back to the beginning of time.

Man is good, and capable, and wants to do the right thing and provide for his family. 

IE work hard, sacrificing his extra time and effort to do his part in stabilizing the family financially and provide some of the nicer things in life as he works hard and gets over the hump, sometimes at substantial personal sacrifice. 

Time away from wife, children, restful evenings and more; he does without these comforts to get ahead of the bear as best he can.

But, W wants him to be home more, to help with children and household and NOT work to his capability, create her own house pet and break-giver. 

Points to ponder?

Here it is: 

How much is too much, on both sides??

This is just recapping what many fellow forumites may have said in different ways, many are wiser than I here, much great advice from super folks, I'd listen to replies, use what you need, leave that which doesn't fit your circumstances. 

Realize you're not the first H or couple to be traveling this specific road, it's common to all couples. 

My two cents is this: W has a point but you have a greater point. I personally, others may differ, but I believe if you can work to your full potential and you're funding the present while building future, then you should. 

At some point in the futyre you'll find the right balance, after you've slogged through the world long enough slaying dragons, putting meat on the table.

Then you'll find the capacity to pull back a little while the train continues to run, and you have a little cush.

Make no mistake - she wants you home but will still blame you if there's a break in funding etc.

I can't say what's best for you. I'd work hard now building for the future 

Good luck!!


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## FalCod

dungandyum said:


> My question is this, we now have a better control on finances and more income, about 80k a year between the two of us. We both want to quash all of our debts quickly. 150k and we are on the same page for that. I'm 27 now and have sort of realized that I did things the hard way in life, but don't want to die thinking it was a mistake. (No regrets with my wife and children I just now understand better why people say wait).


OK, you have nearly double your household income in debt (hopefully a lot of that is for a mortgage, but I'm guessing not). That's a pretty serious issue if it didn't by you an education that enables you to earn a lot of money. You've got a problem and I'm glad that you want to address it.




dungandyum said:


> I now want more than anything to chase my career goals into a field that will require some significant dedication for a few years 3-4 with similar pay along most of the way. The cost of about 100k. The result would be 200k a year income, working fewer than 7 months of the year, great perks, great benefits, doing something I am passionate about ( but until recently felt was unreachable).


This sounds like you're being scammed. There aren't a lot of jobs that have you working fewer than 7 months a year. Of those, few pay well. The ones that do tend to be things like being an actor, a professional athlete, or a popular musician. Most people making 200K have year long jobs as professionals - lawyers, doctors, engineers, developers, executives. 

Think about it. This country is full of people getting 4 year degrees in difficult fields in the hopes that their careers will lead them to 200K year long jobs. Why would they do that if they could jobs like what you describe right out of the gate. If it sounds too good to be true, it is.

My advice is to get realistic about your debt issues and focus on paying them down. To the extent that you want a higher income, excel at what you do and look for opportunities to make more doing it or branching out from there (becoming a supplier to people that do what you do).


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## TJW

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> create her own house pet and break-giver.


:grin2:

Yeah..... one who earns two salaries in half a week.....what he does with his life, other than be a pocketbook, house pet (who can sleep in the doghouse) and break-giver, is not important. Only that the bacon comes home on time, and 4 out of every 7 days they do whatever's on her agenda (break-giver). 

Sacrifices come from the "house-pet" category.


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## Mr.Married

He is referring to becoming an airline pilot and his numbers are real. I know many people in the business.


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## aine

You want to go invest in a career for the money and one which will take you away from your family. Why is it only YOUR decision? Doesn’t your wife have any say?


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## SunWhiskey

Mr.Married said:


> He is referring to becoming an airline pilot and his numbers are real. I know many people in the business.


200k isn't the number for a fresh airline pilot. That's for a senior captain on a legacy airline. A very real number for a very long time can be in the 60 to 80k range. Tons of pilots have lost their jobs. The markets are tough. Profit margins for airlines are thinner than ever over the past decade.

So, he wants go spend a couple hundred grand on a job that is going to be hard to get with a median salary of 75-80k a year. Remember, median isn't starting, that is after you've had years of experience. In the end, he may consider himself lucky to get his foot in the door at 30k to 50k as a new pilot. Many of the pilots he will be competing with will have just finished school, but will also have several years experience flying in the military. A tough battle to win in a job interview for an entry level position.

I spent 6 years working on aircraft with the original intention of becoming a pilot. I have 3 friends who ended up pursuing that. 2 of them are still in debt over their eyeballs 10 years later.


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