# Dating for women over 40



## Lila

The recent thread started by @AVR1962, and the responses to it, reminded me of the article "Two Huge Reasons Why Women Over 40 Have A Hard Time Finding Love"

https://www.yourtango.com/experts/nancy-nichols/cant-find-love-maybe-youre-too-picky-choosy

Here is a preview



> (snip).....I dated for many years as one of the single women over 40. The men I wanted to date never asked me out, or if I went out with a great guy, I never heard from him again. I realized there are two top reasons mature women are unable attract and hold the sincere interest of quality men:
> 
> 1)A critical, judgmental, closed mindset
> 2)High expectations (code for: unreasonable and unattainable)
> 
> Woman are infamous for "The List," a column of checkmark boxes that characterize the traits and attributes that must characterize the man they will date or marry.
> 
> (Snip)...Single women over 40 can be uncompromising about their "List." They've lived their first life. They got rid of their self-serving, cheating boyfriend or they divorced their overbearing, abusive husband. They sent their children off to college and they're self-supporting. It's "me-time" they say — and they conjure a long list of must-haves and deal breakers that no man can measure up to.
> 
> I met my husband on Match.com. I knew on our first date he wasn't the silver-haired bad boy I was impulsively attracted to. There was no titillating chemistry. His clothes were frumpy, drab and tired. His conversation was restrained. He was balding and 40 pounds overweight.
> 
> But something in my gut told me he was the real deal — and so I consented to a second date.
> 
> In truth, I dated him because he had a farm with animals; I thought it would be fun to ride a horse and pet a cow. I continued dating him because he wined and dined me, he adored me, and he never made me worry. I fell in love with his heart and I married him. Today, my husband has a closet full of snazzy clothes, he sports a Michael Douglas hairdo, he lost 40 pounds,*and I own my first horse.*
> 
> If you're dating over 40, I'm not saying lower your standards. And I'm not saying you should settle for Mr. So-So. I am saying get rid of your fantasy laundry list and give a man a chance to show you his best and most enduring qualities. You may discover that the perfect man for you is wrapped in a different package.


Single ladies over 40, do you think women over 40 have unrealistic expectations for their partners? Would you be willing to settle for less than you'd hoped in exchange for someone to call a partner?

Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


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## oldshirt

Lila said:


> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


Whether someone's expectations are unrealistic or not will depend a lot on their own traits, characteristics and market value. 

Sandra Bullock would probably be able to get a middle aged man that still had six pack abz, a full head of hair, a closet full of Italian suits and a yacht in the Caribean. 

For Denise down in human resources that is 50 lbs overweight and has 4 kids in age from 8-20, that is going to be pretty unattainable. 

As far as would I be ok with the situation described in the article where there was no physical attraction, the author left out one critical piece of information - did that physical attraction ever develop and was she laying him like tile eventually or was she only interested in riding his horses and not him? 

Would I be interested in even a 3rd or 4th date with someone that had no physical/romantic/sexual attraction to me and just wanted to hang out at my farm because she like farm animals and warm, safe place to hang out?? Absolutely NOT!!!!!!!

But if she were to get past her initial judgements of my hair (I am shaved bald) my clothes, and my glasses and see me for the sexual and romantic beast that I am and start riding me like a stolen horse, then I'd be good with it.


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## Laurentium

Lila said:


> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners?


That has to be entirely up to them. If they'd rather be single than abandon "the list" then that has to be their choice. Everyone should have non-negotiables. 



> Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


I don't want to be "settled for", no. The quoted article is dangerously near to contempt for men.


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## Lila

oldshirt said:


> Would I be interested in even a 3rd or 4th date with someone that had no physical/romantic/sexual attraction to me and just wanted to hang out at my farm because she like farm animals and warm, safe place to hang out?? Absolutely NOT!!!!!!!
> 
> But if she were to get past her initial judgements of my hair (I am shaved bald) my clothes, and my glasses and see me for the sexual and romantic beast that I am and start riding me like a stolen horse, then I'd be good with it.


How would you feel knowing that she saw you as an improvement project? 

My take from reading her article is that she found her future husband's life attractive but didn't find him attractive. She was willing to put up with him in exchange for access to his farm and horses. However, she saw potential in a fixer upper. She rolled up her sleeves and got to work turning him into the type of man she could find physically attractive. 

It sounds like initially she fell in love with him but it doesnt sound like there was sexual passion. 

I just find that whole thing unbearable. I cannot imagine doing that to someone or worse, being on the receiving end of it.


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## arbitrator

*Other than their potential to eventually cheat, a woman's perceived "classism" has me literally scared crapless of ever dating them, much less in dating or even getting involved in a serious relationship with them!

I do not want to ever be in the company of a woman who looks down their nose at me!

I'd rather be happy and alone!*


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## BigToe

Lila said:


> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners?


Yes, unquestionably. Men have unrealistic expectations as well which is why dating after 50 is so difficult.



Lila said:


> Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


I don't think this is an accurate description of what the author said. She didn't say she wasn't attracted to him, she said he didn't fit her "impulsive attraction" type. For whatever reason she gave up the litmus test she had developed and continue to see him. In so doing, she discovered qualities that she hadn't considered in her litmus test. Also, I think it's a stretch to say she changed him to suit her expectations. As is normal, and a reasonable expectation, when two people come together in a good relationship they both change a bit to fit in with each other, merge with each other. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Lila

Laurentium said:


> I don't want to be "settled for", no. The quoted article is dangerously near to contempt for men.


What is it about the article that you find contemptuous for men?


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## Lila

BigToe said:


> I don't think this is an accurate description of what the author said. She didn't say she wasn't attracted to him, she said he didn't fit her "impulsive attraction" type. For whatever reason she gave up the litmus test she had developed and continue to see him. In so doing, she discovered qualities that she hadn't considered in her litmus test.


What makes you think from what she wrote that she was physically attracted to him? 

Would you be okay dating/marrying a woman who didn't find you physically attractive but liked you for your personality? 



> Also, I think it's a stretch to say she changed him to suit her expectations. As is normal, and a reasonable expectation, when two people come together in a good relationship they both change a bit to fit in with each other, merge with each other. Nothing wrong with that.


It's possible that's what happened but the likelihood that he became more attractive after marriage than before is more of a stretch. The opposite is usually the case. People become their best self to attract a partner and then typically let themselves go in contentment and complacency.


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## Laurentium

Lila said:


> What is it about the article that you find contemptuous for men?


Something similar to what you meant when you wrote:



Lila said:


> I just find that whole thing unbearable. I cannot imagine doing that to someone or worse, being on the receiving end of it.


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## Faithful Wife

I’d say there’s a #3 for that list. Some women over 40 don’t consider dating younger men.

Now sure, if you (general) are absolutely opposed to dating someone younger than yourself (not sure why anyone would be), then ok. There’s no convincing you. 

But if you simply had never considered it before or if you always believed the tripe about how younger women like older men but for some reason the reverse isn’t true, then you (any single woman) should certainly consider it now.

I have finally given younger guys a chance simply because there are twice as many of them hitting me up in the dating apps than there are men my age or older. Some friends and I have concluded that this is partially because older men are a little behind the curve on the apps. Whereas of course, the younger you are, the more likely you’ve never had a date that wasn’t from an app. So there are already far more younger men than older in any dating app.

I am not around in public enough to meet anyone in person (plus I am introverted so I’m usually actively avoiding making eye contact), so dating apps are pretty much the only way I’m going to meet someone. I’ve found it to be fun, efficient, effective, cheap, and entertaining. Definitely worth it.

Lila, the stage you are in right now is going to cause you to see evidence that more doom and gloom is headed your way. So you’re going to run across articles like this one.

You’re going to have to ignore things like this article and don’t pursue anything else like it.

Do read articles and blogs by women who are happy and dating (or not) and having fun. Don’t read articles about how hard everything is for “women our age”. For every article you can find like that, I can find you one that would give you hope.

If you want to PM me, I’ll share with you just a few dozen (out of hundreds) screen shots of a sort of gallery of the men who have right swiped me (means likes me). Most of them are between 30 and 40. A few between 40 and 55. 

These younger men are not the ones who are racing to start a family. They are the ones who just want a great relationship with a woman who has her **** together. Maybe they already have kids, or have decided they never want any, or they just want to go with flow and see what happens and they are ok if they do or don’t have kids or more kids. Not every guy is pounding the pavement looking for a woman to have his child.

All I know is I finally stopped ignoring these guys or treating them like I couldn’t take them seriously. Now it’s almost exclusively who I date. And boy are they fun! Of course, I’m not talking about **** boys. There are plenty of those too, of all ages. Thankfully these days you can just say that’s what you are here for. So they just out themselves and move on quickly if that’s not what you are looking for. No, I’m talking about educated, intelligent, hot younger men who have careers and a life and just want a really awesome woman to spend their time with.


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## Faithful Wife

https://damonahoffman.com/8-reasons-why-you-should-date-a-younger-guy/

(8 reasons you should date a younger guy)


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> I’d say there’s a #3 for that list. Some women over 40 don’t consider dating younger men.
> 
> Now sure, if you (general) are absolutely opposed to dating someone younger than yourself (not sure why anyone would be), then ok. There’s no convincing you.
> 
> But if you simply had never considered it before or if you always believed the tripe about how younger women like older men but for some reason the reverse isn’t true, then you (any single woman) should certainly consider it now.
> 
> I have finally given younger guys a chance simply because there are twice as many of them hitting me up in the dating apps than there are men my age or older. Some friends and I have concluded that this is partially because older men are a little behind the curve on the apps. Whereas of course, the younger you are, the more likely you’ve never had a date that wasn’t from an app. So there are already far more younger men than older in any dating app.
> 
> I am not around in public enough to meet anyone in person (plus I am introverted so I’m usually actively avoiding making eye contact), so dating apps are pretty much the only way I’m going to meet someone. I’ve found it to be fun, efficient, effective, cheap, and entertaining. Definitely worth it.


Ooh, I did not think about that one as a possible reason why 40+ women don't have trouble dating. 

It definitely adds more fish to the proverbial pond. But I'll be honest, I don't think I could ever date younger than a few years. It's just not me. I do wonder how open 40+ women are interested in dating younger men. That would be an excellent thread. Maybe even with a poll. 😃



> Lila, the stage you are in right now is going to cause you to see evidence that more doom and gloom is headed your way. So you’re going to run across articles like this one.
> 
> You’re going to have to ignore things like this article and don’t pursue anything else like it.
> 
> Do read articles and blogs by women who are happy and dating (or not) and having fun. Don’t read articles about how hard everything is for “women our age”. For every article you can find like that, I can find you one that would give you hope.
> 
> If you want to PM me, I’ll share with you just a few dozen (out of hundreds) screen shots of a sort of gallery of the men who have right swiped me (means likes me). Most of them are between 30 and 40. A few between 40 and 55.


Oh I'm not looking at these articles for me. @AVR1962's thread inspired me to goggle 'dating for women over 40" and this was one of the articles. There were plenty of positive ones out there but what I noticed was that the "positive" dating ones leaned towards "be happy alone" which made me giggle. If these people wanted to be alone, they wouldn't be dating would they? 😂. Anyway,I wonder how those articles compare to "dating for men over 40". It's probably all about slaying ***** 🤣. 



> These younger men are not the ones who are racing to start a family. They are the ones who just want a great relationship with a woman who has her **** together. Maybe they already have kids, or have decided they never want any, or they just want to go with flow and see what happens and they are ok if they do or don’t have kids or more kids. Not every guy is pounding the pavement looking for a woman to have his child.
> 
> All I know is I finally stopped ignoring these guys or treating them like I couldn’t take them seriously. Now it’s almost exclusively who I date. And boy are they fun! Of course, I’m not talking about **** boys. There are plenty of those too, of all ages. Thankfully these days you can just say that’s what you are here for. So they just out themselves and move on quickly if that’s not what you are looking for. No, I’m talking about educated, intelligent, hot younger men who have careers and a life and just want a really awesome woman to spend their time with.


Are the younger men you are finding interested in establishing long term commitments?


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## Faithful Wife

Lila, yes they are interested in LTR’s. They just don’t want drama, games and drinking in bars and clubs every weekend. They want to do grown up things like travel and learn stuff.


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## john117

I spent a lot of time reading the blog below... 

http://melanirobinson.com/

It doesn't get better for anyone.


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## minimalME

Although there's not even the smallest part of me that wants to date younger men, their recent interest has been somewhat amusing.

I've been traveling for the past two months, so I eat out a lot, and the attention from the male servers is new. I had one guy pull up a chair and talk to me throughout my entire dinner! It was kind of annoying and sweet at the same time.


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## Bananapeel

Lila said:


> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


I disagree with the author. The women I've dated (mid 30's to early 40's) are just looking to have some fun with a guy they are proud to be around and if it turns into more then they're happy. I've never been told there has been a list that they are trying to check off. There has also always been high physical attraction from the beginning; I've never settled and lowered my standards on anything, and would hope women would feel the same way.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> Lila, yes they are interested in LTR’s. They just don’t want drama, games and drinking in bars and clubs every weekend. They want to do grown up things like travel and learn stuff. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


Learn stuff? 😉😂 Just kidding. I know what you meant. A more mature relationship.


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## Lila

john117 said:


> I spent a lot of time reading the blog below...
> 
> http://melanirobinson.com/
> 
> It doesn't get better for anyone.


Very bleak indeed. Why do you think that is?


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## Lila

minimalME said:


> Although there's not even the smallest part of me that wants to date younger men, their recent interest has been somewhat amusing.
> 
> I've been traveling for the past two months, so I eat out a lot, and the attention from the male servers is new. I had one guy pull up a chair and talk to me throughout my entire dinner! It was kind of annoying and sweet at the same time. <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" ></a>


Did he just pull up a chair and start chatting? What did he have to say?


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## oldshirt

Lila said:


> How would you feel knowing that she saw you as an improvement project?
> 
> My take from reading her article is that she found her future husband's life attractive but didn't find him attractive. She was willing to put up with him in exchange for access to his farm and horses. However, she saw potential in a fixer upper. She rolled up her sleeves and got to work turning him into the type of man she could find physically attractive.
> 
> It sounds like initially she fell in love with him but it doesnt sound like there was sexual passion.
> 
> I just find that whole thing unbearable. I cannot imagine doing that to someone or worse, being on the receiving end of it.


Depends on how much of a "project" we are talking about.

If all it was was an update of wardrobe and new glasses, then sure. I could do that in an afternoon and wouldn't think twice if it.

But if someone was wanting me to change careers, move to a different house with all new furniture and change all my hobbies and interests etc - then sorry, no dice. 

Cont...


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## Lila

Bananapeel said:


> I disagree with the author. The women I've dated (mid 30's to early 40's) are just looking to have some fun with a guy they are proud to be around and if it turns into more then they're happy. I've never been told there has been a list that they are trying to check off. There has also always been high physical attraction from the beginning; I've never settled and lowered my standards on anything, and would hope women would feel the same way.


Is it possible that you haven't met women like the author describes because you are not looking for a long term relationship, and therefore attract women who are also not interested in anything long term? 

The author is speaking to those women who are looking to date in search of long term/permanent partners. It's no secret that men in the 40-60 age bracket looking for long term partners are in short supply. Do you think that these women's expectations are too high? That if they want to find something more than a fling, then they should settle and make the best of it?


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## Bananapeel

Lila said:


> Is it possible that you haven't met women like the author describes because you are not looking for a long term relationship, and therefore attract women who are also not interested in anything long term?
> 
> The author is speaking to those women who are looking to date in search of long term/permanent partners. It's no secret that men in the 40-60 age bracket looking for long term partners are in short supply. Do you think that these women's expectations are too high? That if they want to find something more than a fling, then they should settle and make the best of it?


That's possible because I've done the non-committal dating thing, but multiple women I've dated casually would have been quite happy with long term with me if I would have agreed to it. However, there are others that only wanted casual and nothing more. Usually people dating with the idea of long term from the beginning are approaching relationships differently than those looking to have fun and see where it goes. Both can end up in a LTR, but the latter group will probably have an easier time sorting through people to find a compatible partner because they are less goal oriented so less likely to settle on good enough (this is just my personal speculation). 

I don't think their expectations are too high. But maybe their methodology is handicapping them a bit. I never think anyone should settle on something that is important to them. My GF wanted a LTR from the beginning and I didn't, but I got to the same place after getting to know her really well. She just knew it before me


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## oldshirt

Cont....

So let me add my thoughts in the attraction/chemistry issue.

I have a good life and can live as an independent, functional adult just fine.

My kids are teens and already have an excellent mother so I wouldn't need a nanny or child care giver.

I have a good career so don't need a sugar mamma.

I can feed myself and vacuum my own carpet so I don't need a cook or maid.

I am not a knight in shining armor and I don't rescue damsels in distress and I wouldn't support anyone so anyone I would get with would also be a self-supporting, functional adult.

I have friends and family that I can do a wide variety of various activities with.

I also assume that the things I mentioned above will apply to a large number of middles aged women as well.

So where I am going with this is romance and sexuality would be very high on my priority list and a critical criteria such that no relationship would occur without it. 

So no, I would not becoming involved with someone that just wanted to live the country life and play with my horses.


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## Lila

oldshirt said:


> Depends on how much of a "project" we are talking about.
> 
> If all it was was an update of wardrobe and new glasses, then sure. I could do that in an afternoon and wouldn't think twice if it.
> 
> But if someone was wanting me to change careers, move to a different house with all new furniture and change all my hobbies and interests etc - then sorry, no dice.
> 
> Cont...


How about lose 40 lbs and get a new haircut?


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## Lila

Bananapeel said:


> I don't think their expectations are too high. But maybe their methodology is handicapping them a bit. I never think anyone should settle on something that is important to them. My GF wanted a LTR from the beginning and I didn't, but I got to the same place after getting to know her really well. She just knew it before me


I'm not picking on you @Bananapeel but just wanted to point out contradictions in your post. 

Your GF settled for someone who was not interested in a LTR and made it clear from the very beginning. She probably liked you enough to throw her expectations for a LTR out the window in exchange for spending time with you.


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## oldshirt

Lila said:


> How about lose 40 lbs and get a new haircut?


I only have maybe 10 lbs extra to lose and my hair options are either continuing with shaved bald or get some kind of hair piece which usually look a million times worse than shaved bald.

IMHO if men are 40 or more lbs overweight and they aren't already doing all they can to lose it, then having people settle for riding their horses (and not them) is to be expected.


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## ReformedHubby

I have to say that article is absolutely the worst advice ever. Basically she is saying I totally settled for a guy that I wasn't attracted to, and he transformed himself into my dream man. Really!?!? Taking her advice is like reading a book on how to become wealthy written by a lottery ticket winner.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having a checklist. Not sure why she doesn't think men have one. I am actually insulted by that assumption. We're not knuckle draggers. We have different lists for different scenarios. Truth be told I think women are no different. Your checklist for a one night stand is short. Is the person hot, and are you having fun with them. We also have a list with criteria for someone you casually date. Then there is the list for marriage or live-in partner. No you don't walk around interviewing people, but in the first few months of a relationship you usually figure out how someone measures up....or doesn't. Its called dating for a reason. There is nothing wrong with throwing a fish back if its not the one you want.


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## Mr. Nail

And yet people keep asking me why I don't divorce. This is the very thing. Unattainable standard. I'll divorce when she is ready to, and then I'm done. Not going back into that meat grinder.


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## john117

Lila said:


> Very bleak indeed. Why do you think that is?


"The good ones are taken" and "there's a reason the singles are single". Ok, neither is true but that's the perception. 

I came 95% close to finding the next one till two minor things came to my attention. 1. Poor relationship with her father - I know the guy and he's a saint - and 2. Divorced because she did not want to be a caregiver. 

Great person to chill with but anything more... As we get older we simply get better at signal to noise differentiation...


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## Bananapeel

Lila said:


> I'm not picking on you @Bananapeel but just wanted to point out contradictions in your post.
> 
> Your GF settled for someone who was not interested in a LTR and made it clear from the very beginning. She probably liked you enough to throw her expectations for a LTR out the window in exchange for spending time with you.


It's all good...I don't feel picked on. 

First, my GF wanted a LTR but when I proposed casual/non-committal/dating multiples she agreed to it because it wasn't something she'd done before and was OK giving it a try. She quickly found out she didn't like it and we weren't getting along very well with that arrangement so we ended our relationship and decided to just be friends. So it wasn't really a compromise on her part but her just experimenting with a new relationship style and figuring out what worked or didn't work for her. She found out that she was fine with casual as long as it was exclusive but not OK with me dating multiple women because she felt like she was competing and couldn't really relax. She was also fine with LTR committed or being just friends. When we were just friends and there was no pressure on either of us I found out how amazing of a woman she was when she wasn't stress about competing with the other women and what I was missing out on. So I discovered that a committed LTR with her is WAY better than the casual non-committal with multiple women, so we both learned something about relationships and worked best for us. But again, her willingness to go forward and see what worked, rather than being goal oriented, allowed us to figure out "us". I view her attitude as one of being flexible and experimental, rather than compromising her values for me. Likewise, I had the willingness to be flexible, but only for the right woman. I think that is what is missing with some of the women that are looking specifically for a LTR...basically, they lose that ability to be flexible and find what works because they have a fixed model in their mind of what they want.


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## NextTimeAround

A lot of 20 something guys are going bald by choice, so baldness isn't always an age thing.


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## Lila

john117 said:


> "The good ones are taken" and "there's a reason the singles are single". Ok, neither is true but that's the perception.
> 
> I came 95% close to finding the next one till two minor things came to my attention. 1. Poor relationship with her father - I know the guy and he's a saint - and 2. Divorced because she did not want to be a caregiver.
> 
> Great person to chill with but anything more... As we get older we simply get better at signal to noise differentiation...


1. Are u sure her dad is a Saint? Sometimes people have the person they show to the outside world and then there's the "real" person only close family gets to experience. 

2. Is there a large age Gap between the two of you? I can understand her saying she's not interested in being a caregiver if she's not at the same stage of life as you. 

Was there a big age Gap?


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## john117

Lila said:


> 1. Are u sure her dad is a Saint? Sometimes people have the person they show to the outside world and then there's the "real" person only close family gets to experience.
> 
> 2. Is there a large age Gap between the two of you? I can understand her saying she's not interested in being a caregiver if she's not at the same stage of life as you.
> 
> Was there a big age Gap?


No, I Klknow the guy and his now deceased wife. They were both as good parents as it gets. I suspected a bit of look down on her behalf since she was an executive (decades ago) and he was an educator. 

No age gap between my friend and her x. Just his medical condition that required a lot of care in their early 40s. They split for many reasons but care was one of the bigger ones. Ironically she's not in the best of health herself a decade later.

She's 10 years my junior and definitely not dating anyone. We see each other a few times a year but it's mostly an awesome intellectual relationship, nothing more. She has a lot of work to do to improve her physical appearance, and emotionally she's got more skeletons in her closet than Trump's tax returns. 

Well, there's always the French lady at work. She's buried two husbands, now on her third


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## Lila

Bananapeel said:


> I think that is what is missing with some of the women that are looking specifically for a LTR...basically, they lose that ability to be flexible and find what works because they have a fixed model in their mind of what they want.


I disagree. LTR is a standard just like anything else. It's a preference. 

Let me reword your paragraph above to something I see with a lot of men who complain women only want exclusivity.

"I think that is what is missing with some of the _men_ that are looking specifically for _casual relationships _....basically, they lose that ability to be flexible and find what works because they have a fixed model in their mind of what they want"

One is not better than the other but personally, I prefer to deal with people who know what they want.. and can express it. That way I can figure out how much time, effort, and emotional interest to invest in them. 

For example, I wouldn't be very compromising or flexible with someone with whom I was in a casual relationship. It's a take it or leave it situation. 

On the other hand, I would be much more willing to compromise in a long term relationship because there's commitment. It's a give and take situation.


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## Bananapeel

That's your prerogative to view your relationships anyway you'd like.


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## Mr. Nail

Now you a quibbling. Long term relationship vs, casual semi relationship. The truth about the unattainable standard is that if you aren't clearly hitting 80+% of the list, you won't get past hello. Flexibility comes after hello. Inflexibility is a function of age, but the seeds of it are present from toddler age.


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## Lila

Mr. Nail said:


> The truth about the unattainable standard is that if you aren't clearly hitting 80+% of the list, you won't get past hello.


What do you define as unattainable standards?



> Flexibility comes after hello. Inflexibility is a function of age, but the seeds of it are present from toddler age.


Can you explain what you mean by both of those statements?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Lila said:


> I disagree. LTR is a standard just like anything else. It's a preference.
> 
> Let me reword your paragraph above to something I see with a lot of men who complain women only want exclusivity.
> 
> "I think that is what is missing with some of the _men_ that are looking specifically for _casual relationships _....basically, they lose that ability to be flexible and find what works because they have a fixed model in their mind of what they want"
> 
> One is not better than the other but personally, I prefer to deal with people who know what they want.. and can express it. That way I can figure out how much time, effort, and emotional interest to invest in them.
> 
> For example, I wouldn't be very compromising or flexible with someone with whom I was in a casual relationship. It's a take it or leave it situation.
> 
> On the other hand, I would be much more willing to compromise in a long term relationship because there's commitment. It's a give and take situation.


It’s a lot easier on dating apps these days because you can state right there what you are looking for. 

A LTR/marriage

Wants or doesn’t want kids/more kids

Non monogamy/poly

Group/swinger/kinky relationships or just the sex part

Casual sex only

Don’t know

If someone says they don’t know, I assume they really don’t. That may mean they are just dating and if the right thing comes along they are open and ready for an LTR. Or it might mean they literally don’t know and are spinning in circles, a wreck waiting to happen. 

If I match with someone who says they don’t know what they want on their profile, I clear it up right away. And that depends on what I am looking for at the time. If I’m only open to casual dating or if I’m looking for a boyfriend, I approach from my own position and ask them for clarification.

If they are clearly not sure and spinning around, I can tell right away and usually there’s no match, no date ensues.

If they say the words that sound close to what I am also looking for, we will discuss a little further to see if we are on the same page.

If they are inexperienced daters or freshly out of an LTR and haven’t dated for decades, there’s always a learning curve for them. I usually step aside on these because I know they have a lot of stuff to work out (as did I at that stage). I’m past that in my process and readiness for a relationship.

I haven’t found that people are trying to lie about their intentions just to get laid or anything like that. If they really aren’t looking to “get tied down” so to speak and I am ready for an exclusive boyfriend, they may say “oh but dang, you’re so cute, can’t we at least meet once and see how it goes?” (This after them already specifically saying they aren’t into being exclusive right now). I just politely decline and express that I’m disappointed I won’t get to see those huge arms (or that cute face, or those thick thighs) in person, too. But no, I’m here looking for what I know I want. No time to be detracted by young hotties who are begging to meet me :laugh:

I also find that the stage of self awareness you yourself are in will be what determines the level of self awareness you are able to detect in others. And that is a very useful tool. 

But generally speaking at our age, most people are fairly self aware, and the ones who aren’t are pretty obvious.


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## Betrayedone

NextTimeAround said:


> A lot of 20 something guys are going bald by choice, so baldness isn't always an age thing.


I doubt it.......


----------



## Mr. Nail

In the beginning you asked if we felt that women over 40 were demanding more than was available in their dating partners. What I'm saying is that it isn't necessarily limited by an arbitrary age. All women, or all people want more than what they can get, and they are willing to stonewall until they get it. As to my definition of unattainable your quote in the OP had a fine definition, use it, or look at the cover of any woman's romance novel.


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## Lila

Faithful Wife said:


> It’s a lot easier on dating apps these days because you can state right there what you are looking for.
> 
> A LTR/marriage
> 
> Wants or doesn’t want kids/more kids
> 
> Non monogamy/poly
> 
> Group/swinger/kinky relationships or just the sex part
> 
> Casual sex only
> 
> Don’t know


Dang that's a lot of choices. 



> If someone says they don’t know, I assume they really don’t. That may mean they are just dating and if the right thing comes along they are open and ready for an LTR. Or it might mean they literally don’t know and are spinning in circles, a wreck waiting to happen.
> 
> If I match with someone who says they don’t know what they want on their profile, I clear it up right away. And that depends on what I am looking for at the time. If I’m only open to casual dating or if I’m looking for a boyfriend, I approach from my own position and ask them for clarification.
> 
> If they are clearly not sure and spinning around, I can tell right away and usually there’s no match, no date ensues.
> 
> If they say the words that sound close to what I am also looking for, we will discuss a little further to see if we are on the same page.
> 
> If they are inexperienced daters or freshly out of an LTR and haven’t dated for decades, there’s always a learning curve for them. I usually step aside on these because I know they have a lot of stuff to work out (as did I at that stage). I’m past that in my process and readiness for a relationship.


Great way to weed through everything to find what you're looking for. 



> I haven’t found that people are trying to lie about their intentions just to get laid or anything like that. If they really aren’t looking to “get tied down” so to speak and I am ready for an exclusive boyfriend, they may say “oh but dang, you’re so cute, can’t we at least meet once and see how it goes?” (This after them already specifically saying they aren’t into being exclusive right now). I just politely decline and express that I’m disappointed I won’t get to see those huge arms (or that cute face, or those thick thighs) in person, too. But no, I’m here looking for what I know I want. No time to be detracted by young hotties who are begging to meet me :laugh:
> 
> I also find that the stage of self awareness you yourself are in will be what determines the level of self awareness you are able to detect in others. And that is a very useful tool.
> 
> But generally speaking at our age, most people are fairly self aware, and the ones who aren’t are pretty obvious.


That gives me some hope. The thought of online dating makes me anxious. That's another good idea for a thread topic. Online dating - pros and cons.


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## minimalME

Lila said:


> Did he just pull up a chair and start chatting? What did he have to say?


He did! 

He's told me about how he was going off for basic training after Christmas, and how his dad was also military and was away. He was very sweet about his mom and how he was helping her with Christmas decorations.

He was very kind. Nothing inappropriate at all.


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## 269370

Lila said:


> Did he just pull up a chair and start chatting? What did he have to say?



If she was satisfied with his service?  You know, stuff waiters HAVE to ask 


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## 269370

Bananapeel said:


> So I discovered that a committed LTR with her is WAY better than the casual non-committal with multiple women



How is this news? In which circumstances is a casual relationship better than a LTR, once you have the right person? I think I’m living in the wrong century.
I could potentially see *some* appeal for a guy (if he’s mainly into casual/sexual and doesn’t want anything else), but what is the benefit for women jumping from one guy to another with all those dating apps? I never understood what they would be getting out of it. Sounds exhausting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370

This may sound terribly prejudiced...but this whole ‘casual dating’ thing...I always perceived it as a kind of ‘chore’ or ‘tax’ that some women have to go through, in order to find the guy they really like and eventually build an LTR. I never thought (many) women actually set out to date casually.

I have never met a woman (who I could ever consider spending a good portion of my life with) who would be doing casual dating thing ‘for fun’ or as a life style choice, and not because she ‘had to’ in order to find the right long term partner.

I realise a lot of guys will feel differently (especially the ones who feel it must be such a privilege to casually have sex with them ) and a lot of women might even justify it to themselves one way or another but on the whole....I don’t get it. There are obviously a lot of ‘grown up’ women doing this and this comment is not aimed at them (they can do whatever they want). But in case younger ones are reading and just starting out dating, I feel I need to make this comment.


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## FeministInPink

Lila said:


> I'm not picking on you @Bananapeel but just wanted to point out contradictions in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Your GF settled for someone who was not interested in a LTR and made it clear from the very beginning. She probably liked you enough to throw her expectations for a LTR out the window in exchange for spending time with you.


I just want to point out while it's great that this worked out for Bananapeel's girlfriend, the fact is that they are the exception to the rule. A woman who wants a LTR but settles for a casual relationship (in hopes of it later becoming LTR) rarely ends up getting a LTR; she usually ends up getting her heart broken.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## farsidejunky

Lila said:


> How would you feel knowing that she saw you as an improvement project?
> 
> My take from reading her article is that she found her future husband's life attractive but didn't find him attractive. She was willing to put up with him in exchange for access to his farm and horses. However, she saw potential in a fixer upper. She rolled up her sleeves and got to work turning him into the type of man she could find physically attractive.
> 
> It sounds like initially she fell in love with him but it doesnt sound like there was sexual passion.
> 
> I just find that whole thing unbearable. I cannot imagine doing that to someone or worse, being on the receiving end of it.


This sums it up nicely.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## MAJDEATH

I have a couple of guy friends that are trying to work the modern dating pool. Both are pushing 50 but don't seem to be interested in ladies in their 40s or older who are divorced. They both want the 30-35 never married, ready to have kids. I had to remind them "have you taken a good look at yourself?" What makes you think ladies in that category would even consider you. They are finding out the hard way that if you are a guy with no hair, a gut, with a lackluster career you are almost invisible to these ladies, no matter how great your attitude is.

One is divorced and the other has never been married. The never married one still plays a competitive co-ed sport (volleyball) so is surrounded by female 20 somethings. He can't understand why they won't go out with him (he is 47).


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## MAJDEATH

NextTimeAround said:


> A lot of 20 something guys are going bald by choice, so baldness isn't always an age thing.


Shaved is not bald.


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## SpinyNorman

inmyprime said:


> How is this news? In which circumstances is a casual relationship better than a LTR, once you have the right person? I think I’m living in the wrong century.
> I could potentially see *some* appeal for a guy (if he’s mainly into casual/sexual and doesn’t want anything else), but what is the benefit for women jumping from one guy to another with all those dating apps? I never understood what they would be getting out of it. Sounds exhausting.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





inmyprime said:


> This may sound terribly prejudiced...but this whole ‘casual dating’ thing...I always perceived it as a kind of ‘chore’ or ‘tax’ that some women have to go through, in order to find the guy they really like and eventually build an LTR. I never thought (many) women actually set out to date casually.
> 
> I have never met a woman (who I could ever consider spending a good portion of my life with) who would be doing casual dating thing ‘for fun’ or as a life style choice, and not because she ‘had to’ in order to find the right long term partner.


Nowadays lots of people are in a postion where a LTR doesn't work right now, especially young people. Some of them are happy w/ knitting and Netflix, others not so much. Some women actually think men are fun. As for your experience, people who fish w/ different bait will have a different opinion on what kind of fish populate the lake.


> I realise a lot of guys will feel differently (especially the ones who feel it must be such a privilege to casually have sex with them ) and a lot of women might even justify it to themselves one way or another but on the whole....I don’t get it. There are obviously a lot of ‘grown up’ women doing this and this comment is not aimed at them (they can do whatever they want). But in case younger ones are reading and just starting out dating, I feel I need to make this comment.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well and good to offer an opinion, but don't be surprised if young women don't listen to paternalistic men.


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## SpinyNorman

Lila said:


> The recent thread started by @AVR1962, and the responses to it, reminded me of the article "Two Huge Reasons Why Women Over 40 Have A Hard Time Finding Love"
> 
> https://www.yourtango.com/experts/nancy-nichols/cant-find-love-maybe-youre-too-picky-choosy
> 
> Here is a preview
> 
> 
> 
> Single ladies over 40, do you think women over 40 have unrealistic expectations for their partners? Would you be willing to settle for less than you'd hoped in exchange for someone to call a partner?
> 
> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


Not single so my opinions weren't requested.

Curious why this is in "Life After Divorce."


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## Lila

FeministInPink said:


> Lila said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not picking on you @Bananapeel but just wanted to point out contradictions in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> Your GF settled for someone who was not interested in a LTR and made it clear from the very beginning. She probably liked you enough to throw her expectations for a LTR out the window in exchange for spending time with you.
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to point out while it's great that this worked out for Bananapeel's girlfriend, the fact is that they are the exception to the rule. A woman who wants a LTR but settles for a casual relationship (in hopes of it later becoming LTR) rarely ends up getting a LTR; she usually ends up getting her heart broken.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Agree x 100.


----------



## Lila

SpinyNorman said:


> Not single so my opinions weren't requested.
> 
> Curious why this is in "Life After Divorce."


The article is intended as dating advice for the over 40 crowd. TAM does not have a single / dating sub so I put it under the Life After Divorce. 

Have you been single in your 40s+? If so, do you think the author's comments are factual?


----------



## FeministInPink

MAJDEATH said:


> I have a couple of guy friends that are trying to work the modern dating pool. Both are pushing 50 but don't seem to be interested in ladies in their 40s or older who are divorced. They both want the 30-35 never married, ready to have kids. I had to remind them "have you taken a good look at yourself?" What makes you think ladies in that category would even consider you. They are finding out the hard way that if you are a guy with no hair, a gut, with a lackluster career you are almost invisible to these ladies, no matter how great your attitude is.
> 
> One is divorced and the other has never been married. The never married one still plays a competitive co-ed sport (volleyball) so is surrounded by female 20 somethings. He can't understand why they won't go out with him (he is 47).


So much this. I'm 39, and get no response from men near my age. But I'm getting lots of interest from the 50+ crowd, and all I can think is, REALLY?!? I don't want to date an old man. My ex BF just turned 50, and he is the oldest man I've ever dated (relative to my age). While the age difference wasn't a huge deal most of the times, there were times/circumstances when I thought, "This [whatever it was] wouldn't be an issue if we were closer in age." Mostly related to the fact that he's settled into his life and routine, and isn't as interested in trying new things or experiences, which I've heard is common with older men.

ETA: Not to mention wanting someone who can keep up sexually.


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## john117

You're meeting the wrong 50 year olds. I'm 59, soon to be available  and I'm far more in tune with the young crowd.... New things and all.

I can say the exact thing you said about many women my age. No energy or desire for fun stuff.


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## FeministInPink

john117 said:


> You're meeting the wrong 50 year olds. I'm 59, soon to be available  and I'm far more in tune with the young crowd.... New things and all.
> 
> I can say the exact thing you said about many women my age. No energy or desire for fun stuff.


I must be! But I also want someone my age, because if I do find that LTR, I want our retirements to commence around the same time. 

But you're right, there are young(er) people who fit that description as well.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## SpinyNorman

Lila said:


> The article is intended as dating advice for the over 40 crowd. TAM does not have a single / dating sub so I put it under the Life After Divorce.


ok


> Have you been single in your 40s+? If so, do you think the author's comments are factual?


No, my first marriage consumed my 40s but I dated my share of 40s women before and after. 

Don't know how many of them had the standards in the article, the women I like aren't like that, and the women I don't like don't confide in me.

I'd agree it makes more sense to consider the person in front of you than it does to hunt one that matches what you've picked out.


----------



## honcho

FeministInPink said:


> I must be! But I also want someone my age, because if I do find that LTR, I want our retirements to commence around the same time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


This is why I want to find a younger woman, I can then retire at 62 and she can support me for a few years haha!


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## MAJDEATH

Whether you are a woman or a man in your 40s looking to date, you have to have realistic expectations. Mostly the good ones are taken, and the rest are jaded, have baggage, or compare you to the real love of their life. 

Might be better to get a pet, add some hobbies and some good friends. Oh and don't forget the magic wand.


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## Faithful Wife

MAJDEATH said:


> Whether you are a woman or a man in your 40s looking to date, you have to have realistic expectations. Mostly the good ones are taken, and the rest are jaded, have baggage, or compare you to the real love of their life.
> 
> Might be better to get a pet, add some hobbies and some good friends. Oh and don't forget the magic wand.


Here’s a scenario....

If you were a man aged 50, and you join a dating site and suddenly get hundreds of messages from women of all ages. More than half of them are 5 to 15 years younger than you are. Most are not looking for kids or already have them. None of them “need your money”. 

Now you are sorting through all kinds of young honeys of all shapes and sizes to find the ones who may be a match. You have so many options you sometimes have to shut the apps off just to keep things less confusing. Some want marriage, some want just an LTR, some want casual. You have to talk to so many lovely ladies to figure out who they are to see if you want to date them, which is fun and interesting. You really love having so many choices and you enjoy the process of finding a match among them. You literally never have a date with someone you aren’t madly attracted to, because there are so many beautiful women in your in box.

Ok now what’s wrong with that scenario? Oh right, it’s that it is not some mans experience, it’s mine. 

Would any man in my shoes believe he better get a pet, some hobbies and a sexbot?


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## john117

Minor physiology observation... You aren't a man so the above scenario is as realistic as my cat driving a car...


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## Faithful Wife

john117 said:


> Minor physiology observation... You aren't a man so the above scenario is as realistic as my cat driving a car...


That was my point.

Majdeath came in to throw shade at women dating over 40. So I painted him an accurate picture of what dating over 40 has been like for me, and asked if any man in my position would genuinely feel he better just buy a sex bot instead. Knowing that there is no man in my position.


----------



## farsidejunky

Faithful Wife said:


> Here’s a scenario....
> 
> 
> 
> If you were a man aged 50, and you join a dating site and suddenly get hundreds of messages from women of all ages. More than half of them are 5 to 15 years younger than you are. Most are not looking for kids or already have them. None of them “need your money”.
> 
> 
> 
> Now you are sorting through all kinds of young honeys of all shapes and sizes to find the ones who may be a match. You have so many options you sometimes have to shut the apps off just to keep things less confusing. Some want marriage, some want just an LTR, some want casual. You have to talk to so many lovely ladies to figure out who they are to see if you want to date them, which is fun and interesting. You really love having so many choices and you enjoy the process of finding a match among them. You literally never have a date with someone you aren’t madly attracted to, because there are so many beautiful women in your in box.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok now what’s wrong with that scenario? Oh right, it’s that it is not some mans experience, it’s mine.
> 
> 
> 
> Would any man in my shoes believe he better get a pet, some hobbies and a sexbot?


#firstworldproblems

;-)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr. Nail

Nancy Nichols said:


> I continued dating him because he wined and dined me, he adored me, and he never made me worry. I fell in love with his heart and I married him. Today, my husband has a closet full of snazzy clothes, he sports a Michael Douglas hairdo, he lost 40 pounds,





Lila said:


> (1) Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? (2) Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


(1) Already answered this one too much.

(2) Physical attraction is overrated. Men complain that women have poor body image, but a lot of men know and accept that they are ugly. There is a thread of poor interpretation of this story here. She did not settle. Sure she went on the first date to get to the petting zoo, but (he fit match.com's algorithm, he filled her emotional needs) so she kept dating him. he got a haircut, better clothes, and lost weight not because she changed him. The only change she introduced in his life was to make him happy. So . . . .

I would be content and happy with a woman who -
- fell in love with me, and demonstrated it.
- was attracted to my personality.
- appreciated the efforts I made for her.
- Was interested in my hobbies / work.


----------



## SpinyNorman

MAJDEATH said:


> Whether you are a woman or a man in your 40s looking to date, you have to have realistic expectations. Mostly the good ones are taken, and the rest are jaded, have baggage, or compare you to the real love of their life.
> 
> Might be better to get a pet, add some hobbies and some good friends. Oh and don't forget the magic wand.


At any age I think people should have realistic expectations and consider whether not dating is the better option. But I think difft. people will have difft. opinions of dating at difft. ages. Personally I think dating was better the older I got. YMMV.


----------



## Holdingontoit

Faithful Wife said:


> you are sorting through all kinds of young candidates of all shapes and sizes to find the ones who may be a match. You have so many options you sometimes have to shut the apps off just to keep things less confusing. Some want marriage, some want just an LTR, some want casual. You have to talk to so many applicants to figure out who they are to see if you want to date them, which is fun and interesting. You really love having so many choices and you enjoy the process of finding a match among them. You literally never have a date with someone you aren’t madly attracted to, because there are so many choices in your in box.
> 
> Ok now what’s wrong with that scenario? Oh right, it’s that it is not some mans experience, it’s mine.
> 
> Would any man in my shoes believe he better get a pet, some hobbies and a sexbot?


Very glad to read this. Can we now agree that men are correct when we say that a woman who wants sex can find sex any time she wants it, and that the typical woman has no idea what it is like for the significant percentage of men who have to work hard to engender any interest whatsoever?


----------



## Faithful Wife

Holdingontoit said:


> Very glad to read this. Can we now agree that men are correct when we say that a woman who wants sex can find sex any time she wants it, and that the typical woman has no idea what it is like for the significant percentage of men who have to work hard to engender any interest whatsoever?


Ahhhhh.....but there’s always that catch, isn’t there.

When a man says he wishes he could have sex on demand, he does not mean sex with someone he isn’t attracted to. He may mean someone “just hot enough to turn him on”, but that person is not going to be a meth addict with no teeth or a 400 pound woman, right? He’s talking about how he wishes he could have sex with someone he would actually want to have (even quick, unattached) sex with. He does not mean a troll, regardless of how many men claim it would be “any willing woman”. He does not want to have sex with someone who would be gross to HIM to have sex with. No matter if she is right in front of him offering it. In fact, this would make most men run away faster if she was gross to HIM.

So in my position, it is gross to think of having sex with any of these men in my in box. No matter how sexy they are, no matter how smooth they talk, no matter how he seems to be what I’m looking for. I do not want to have sex with him. He’s just a stranger in my in box, and I don’t imagine having sex with any of them. Ew. I don’t know them. That means I could meet them in person and find out they have something about them that makes them gross to me. 

For me to want to “find sex”, that would imply sex with someone who isn’t gross to me. Therefore if I was going on a specific hunt to “find sex”, I would not look at my in box on my dating apps.

My first idea would be to find an ex because they aren’t a stranger. So let’s say all my exes are out of town or hooked up with someone else or just don’t want to open that box with me again. That’s a dead end.

If my next only option was a total stranger, I would be forced to go somewhere I think such a man might be. Where would that be? I would have to take a wild guess and hit some place (maybe read in the paper what is going on tonight?) I have never done this. Have you? Gone out deliberately to “find sex”? If you did, where would you go? I have no clue.

So wherever I go I’ll have to be social and strike up a convo with someone. I’ll have to be interesting enough to him to not put him on guard as I weave the conversation around to “hey can I seduce you here, or what?” If that works, I’m still completely unsure if this guy will be a decent kisser even. So then we would have to proceed and find out. All kinds of things could go wrong from here, ugh.

Now this may seem easy, but in my experience it isn’t. 

Why?

Because men really aren’t just trying to “find sex” with any willing woman. Or maybe for whatever reason, I’m not attracted to men who are? I haven’t ever just gone out trying to target someone to get laid. But I have certainly talked to lots of men over the years who I was attracted to and was flirty with. None of them have ever just immediately started trying to move to sex. If they were chatty and interested in me, they just wanted to talk more. Yes they were probably sizing me up to decide if they wanted to get my number or ask me to join them for a drink later. And yes if they did, then they may try to size me up for my sexual willingness shortly thereafter.

But by and large, no guys are just hinting or asking for sex immediately.

And through the experiences told to me by others, mostly men, when a woman comes on as if for sex immediately, many men are put off by this and suspicious. It depends on context, of course, and sometimes it may be welcomed (like in @Andy1001 world) :laugh:

But most men are suspicious of a woman who seems to be targeting him out of the blue. Not just because they fear she might be up to something nefarious, but also because men aren’t actually slavering dogs. I know that sex starved husbands must feel like they wish they were tempted with old hamburger left on a plate on a bar stool, but if they were single divorced husbands they would see that plate and be like “ew”.

When men say women can “find sex” anywhere, they mean old hamburger left on a plate on a bar stool. OR a complete stranger, even handsome maybe, but he is the equivalent to old hamburger on a plate to me (and most women I know).

I do have some friends who have swept themselves away from me while out on girls nights to run home with some slicker she met that night. The tale being told is usually that these two had an alignment right away and then acted on it. Sometimes it worked out well, sometimes only for one, sometimes for neither. But those experiences of my friends were few and far between and even in them, the guy was not some aggressor who pushed and pleaded for her to go home with him. He was just a guy she had an instant undeniable spark with, she was free and wild, and they went for it. 

Also have friends who have sex on first dates sometimes. In those cases, it happened naturally and the guy wasn’t an aggressor or begger or pusher. It’s just what happens when two adults are both in the right place within themselves to be open to it. It doesn’t always work out, but neither does it for people who wait. There are no guarantees.

I don’t know why there is the stereo type that men will bang anything. You are the poster child for this. You refuse to have sex with your wife, even though you could. You are an example of how a mans mind can override his body. 

Would you want to have sex with the old hamburger on the bar stool if you became single again? I know in your case, you may not want to bother with any woman. But that’s also my point. There are men who have lots of different personal reasons for not wanting the old hamburger. Men wanting sex at any level with anyone willing is a myth.

Will some people (both genders) do inexplicably gross things with gross people? Yes, a very small percentage of them do.

But in my experience, the sex and dating and relationships world has shown me clearly that men are not just trying to get their **** wet in just any old hole. They have standards, some of them have limitations or personal issues, some are germ freaks, some don’t trust women generally, some are married and don’t cheat, some fear pregnancy too much, some just had sex a short while ago and don’t want it again now, some have performance anxiety (especially if it’s just an unplanned random thing). 

So when men wish they could find sex, they really do mean with a woman who is clean, not crazy, and sexy enough to turn them on. They don’t know all of this information about her on sight.

He may feel arousal at the mere sight of her. But that doesn’t mean “will now pursue her for sex”. We give men boners, it doesn’t mean they actually want to have sex with us right then and there. They may even have a quick sexual flash of a fantasy about us in those first moments of seeing us. That still doesn’t mean they literally are going to pursue you for sex this instant.

To get the sex they really want, men are stuck with getting to know us, just like we are stuck the same way.


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## Diana7

Lila said:


> The recent thread started by @AVR1962, and the responses to it, reminded me of the article "Two Huge Reasons Why Women Over 40 Have A Hard Time Finding Love"
> 
> https://www.yourtango.com/experts/nancy-nichols/cant-find-love-maybe-youre-too-picky-choosy
> 
> Here is a preview
> 
> 
> 
> Single ladies over 40, do you think women over 40 have unrealistic expectations for their partners? Would you be willing to settle for less than you'd hoped in exchange for someone to call a partner?
> 
> Single men over 40, do you agree with the author's assertion that women have unrealistic expectations for potential future partners? Would you be content and happy in a situation like the author describes with her future husband where there was no physical attraction but she ended up settling for him (because he had horses and a farm) then changing him to suit her expectations?


When I was in my mid to late 40's and wanting to marry again I did write a long list of what I wanted in a second husband and in fact I prayed and asked God for such a man. 
I think that the difference was that they were mainly his qualities, such as honesty, patience, integrity, strong moral values etc and not things like how tall he must be, how much he should earn, what sort of job he would have which I call the shallow unimportant things that maybe some women want. 
I was determined not to settle for second best in a man, but to hope and pray for what I asked for. In the end he was all that I asked for, very very different from my first husband, so for me those things were so important. I also wasn't interested in casual dating, I wanted a husband and I wanted a man who wanted a wife not a temporary girlfriend. 

I do think its vital that we meet someone who shares the same direction in life and the same moral values and aims. Who sees dating/marriage the same way we do and who is faithful and committed in the way we are. Apart from that I was never wanting riches or a man who was ultra good looking or who drove a certain car.

I do think that by our 40's we are far more sure of what is important to us in life, especially if we have already had one marriage before. There would have been many many no no's for me, things that I just wasn't prepared to accept.


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## Tiggy!

Is it really that difficult for women over 40 to date and find relationships?
I've not been in that position but from the people I know and what I've seen the ones who wanted relationships most found someone without much difficulty (including a couple of them getting married in their 70's).


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## Diana7

MAJDEATH said:


> Whether you are a woman or a man in your 40s looking to date, you have to have realistic expectations. Mostly the good ones are taken, and the rest are jaded, have baggage, or compare you to the real love of their life.
> 
> Might be better to get a pet, add some hobbies and some good friends. Oh and don't forget the magic wand.


I was fortunate to have met my husband when he had just started going on a dating site after his marriage ended(literally in the first week). I snapped him up pretty quick I can tell you. In a church setting especially, available good men of that age are rare. 

We did both have baggage but that wasn't an issue for me, we had both been in long first marriages that ended in divorce as well as other bad things that had happened to us. I think that the main thing is that a person has forgiven and moved
on from the past. Then the baggage isn't such an issue. If they are still bitter, resentful and clearly haven't dealt with the past in a healthy way, then that will make things much harder and they clearly haven't dealt with it.


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## Diana7

Tiggy! said:


> Is it really that difficult for women over 40 to date and find relationships?
> I've not been in that position but from the people I know and what I've seen the ones who wanted relationships most found someone without much difficulty (including a couple of them getting married in their 70's).


Yes I know quite a few ladies of over 40 who are now happily married for the second time. Including me.


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## Faithful Wife

Diana7 said:


> Yes I know quite a few ladies of over 40 who are now happily married for the second time. Including me.


I think good people who are moved on from their past and truly want a committed LTR or marriage find each other. They are kind of in their own dating pool and they just don’t even consider people who aren’t there where they are at. There may not seem to be that many of them because lots of people are not looking for LTR’s, but the ones who really are make up their own dating pool and find each other.


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## wilson

> I met my husband on Match.com. I knew on our first date he wasn't the silver-haired bad boy I was impulsively attracted to. There was no titillating chemistry. His clothes were frumpy, drab and tired. His conversation was restrained. He was balding and 40 pounds overweight.
> 
> But something in my gut told me he was the real deal — and so I consented to a second date.
> 
> In truth, I dated him because he had a farm with animals; I thought it would be fun to ride a horse and pet a cow. I continued dating him because he wined and dined me, he adored me, and he never made me worry. I fell in love with his heart and I married him. Today, my husband has a closet full of snazzy clothes, he sports a Michael Douglas hairdo, he lost 40 pounds,*and I own my first horse.*


I think she's stretching the truth a bit here. I don't believe that a "balding, dumpy, overweight guy" lost 40 pounds, got a new wardrobe, and grew back his hair into a Michael Douglas hairdo. And even if that's true, it doesn't seem like a good message to promote of "Ladies, date guys you think are losers because you can transform them into your dream guy." Definitely expand your horizons and date people for who they are on the inside, but don't try to change them into who you wish them to be.


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## Faithful Wife

Holdingontoit said:


> Very glad to read this. Can we now agree that men are correct when we say that a woman who wants sex can find sex any time she wants it, and that the typical woman has no idea what it is like for the significant percentage of men who have to work hard to engender any interest whatsoever?


To your actual point specifically, please see my new thread in ladies lounge about more on empathy for men.


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## FeministInPink

Faithful Wife said:


> Here’s a scenario....
> 
> If you were a man aged 50, and you join a dating site and suddenly get hundreds of messages from women of all ages. More than half of them are 5 to 15 years younger than you are. Most are not looking for kids or already have them. None of them “need your money”.
> 
> Now you are sorting through all kinds of young honeys of all shapes and sizes to find the ones who may be a match. You have so many options you sometimes have to shut the apps off just to keep things less confusing. Some want marriage, some want just an LTR, some want casual. You have to talk to so many lovely ladies to figure out who they are to see if you want to date them, which is fun and interesting. You really love having so many choices and you enjoy the process of finding a match among them. You literally never have a date with someone you aren’t madly attracted to, because there are so many beautiful women in your in box.
> 
> Ok now what’s wrong with that scenario? Oh right, it’s that it is not some mans experience, it’s mine.
> 
> Would any man in my shoes believe he better get a pet, some hobbies and a sexbot?


Girl, I seriously need to move to your city.


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## Faithful Wife

FeministInPink said:


> Girl, I seriously need to move to your city.


I been sayin’!


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## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> Nowadays lots of people are in a postion where a LTR doesn't work right now, especially young people. Some of them are happy w/ knitting and Netflix, others not so much. Some women actually think men are fun. As for your experience, people who fish w/ different bait will have a different opinion on what kind of fish populate the lake.
> 
> 
> 
> Well and good to offer an opinion, but don't be surprised if young women don't listen to paternalistic men.




They may not listen to them, but they sure as hell want to **** them (because nothing turns a young woman more on than to rebel against herself..)
I was just very reluctant to use this knowledge to my advantage 
(Your experience may differ, so, there’s that).

And yes, these are terrible generalisations but your tone kinda asks for it.

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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> I must be! But I also want someone my age, because if I do find that LTR, I want our retirements to commence around the same time.
> 
> But you're right, there are young(er) people who fit that description as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



I have been semi retired since I was about 32...(that is, i have made enough by then to not have to worry or think about money stuff).
Not sure what age group I should be looking at, if I was single...


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## RandomDude

> I met my husband on Match.com. I knew on our first date he wasn't the silver-haired bad boy I was impulsively attracted to. There was no titillating chemistry. His clothes were frumpy, drab and tired. His conversation was restrained. He was balding and 40 pounds overweight.
> 
> But something in my gut told me he was the real deal — and so I consented to a second date.
> 
> In truth, I dated him because he had a farm with animals; I thought it would be fun to ride a horse and pet a cow. I continued dating him because he wined and dined me, he adored me, and he never made me worry. I fell in love with his heart and I married him.


Wow... do people sure have low standards these days...

I say never settle for anything less than what you want, sparks and everything, even if you have to wait your whole life for it.

Anything less is just a nuisance on your time, a liability on your finances, and simply not worth it. Single life is far better than the alternative.


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## 269370

FeministInPink said:


> I just want to point out while it's great that this worked out for Bananapeel's girlfriend, the fact is that they are the exception to the rule. A woman who wants a LTR but settles for a casual relationship (in hopes of it later becoming LTR) rarely ends up getting a LTR; she usually ends up getting her heart broken.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk



Yes, that. I’m not sure one needs ‘paternal instincts’ to notice that (@spinynorman)


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## 269370

john117 said:


> Minor physiology observation... You aren't a man so the above scenario is as realistic as my cat driving a car...




Well, many guys like to have sex, any sex, at any price. There are some women who do too (fewer, I would guess), so it follows that those men & women will make a perfect match. The question is: why do people need to keep dating once the match is established.


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## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> At any age I think people should have realistic expectations and consider whether not dating is the better option. But I think difft. people will have difft. opinions of dating at difft. ages. Personally I think dating was better the older I got. YMMV.



For men it usually is (on average). Which doesn’t mean a more mature woman can’t find the love of her life later on in life. But men and women rarely look for the same thing at various stages of their lives (no matter what sites like match.com would love people to believe).


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## MAJDEATH

The pyramid of available choices starts to narrow at the top (over 40). I don't think I would ever marry again if it didn't work out with my covenant spouse. I'd be that cool guy who drives a Ferrari to the gym and doesn't give a **** about anything. And I might bang an ex once in awhile for fun.


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## SpinyNorman

inmyprime said:


> They may not listen to them, but they sure as hell want to **** them (because nothing turns a young woman more on than to rebel against herself..)
> I was just very reluctant to use this knowledge to my advantage
> (Your experience may differ, so, there’s that).


Young women want to **** paternalistic men? You were reluctant to take advantage of this? I honestly don't understand what you mean.


> And yes, these are terrible generalisations but your tone kinda asks for it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Asks for what? Has a rebuttal been delivered?


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## 269370

SpinyNorman said:


> Young women want to **** paternalistic men? You were reluctant to take advantage of this? I honestly don't understand what you mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asks for what? Has a rebuttal been delivered?




Don’t worry about it. It’s all good  


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## UpsideDownWorld11

I think I heard men are most attracted to women that are about 22-24, no matter their own age. Women are more attracted to men 5-7 years older than they are. 

For instance, a 20 yr old woman would think young Brad Pitt was hotter than middle aged Brad Pitt, while a 40 yr old woman will prefer middle aged Brad Pitt.


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## Faithful Wife

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think I heard men are most attracted to women that are about 22-24, no matter their own age. Women are more attracted to men 5-7 years older than they are.
> 
> For instance, a 20 yr old woman would think young Brad Pitt was hotter than middle aged Brad Pitt, while a 40 yr old woman will prefer middle aged Brad Pitt.


Ha ha! No way. 20 year old Brad Pitt is always hotter than 40 year old Brad Pitt. >


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## AVR1962

Dating over 40?? I am 56, single 2 1/2 years and have met many very interesting men. Just having the opportunity to sit and chat and learn about them has been mind opening. I've done the online thing and can say there is a great deal of weeding a person has to do as there are all types out there. Not interested in the married men, the men looking for hook-ups, the heavy men, or the ones who do not groom themselves so does that mean I have my standards too high? I know that a man who is overweight will not be able to keep up with me and I don't plan to sit and watch TV all weekend. A man who posts a picture of himself and he is not well groomed is not someone I want to know and not because I am vein or my standards are too high, it is important to me that a man takes care of himself. I am not interested in men who are 70....I dated a guy 8 years older than myself and he was telling me how he was putting off knee surgery and was limping along. How are we going to go hiking? I don't date to date and just have casual relationships but I have changed my idea of dating to a thought of enjoy the man's company no matter who he is and how attracted I am at first sight. Let him know how much I enjoyed his company and if there was no spark then I chalk it up to another interesting contact.

In dating these men some I could tell were all about the physical and that just was not going to happen. Others told me right upfront that hey were not ready for anything serious and that took the physical off the plate which was nice and I actually got to know those men. I had men tell me that they were only looking for serious relationships and those, as odd as it may seem, were the men that scared me off!!!!! 

In chatting with my male friends who are single I have had many tell me they were just dating this lady for sex and then one became a dad and is now with the lady he had a 3 month fling with and seem happy. While another friend of mine who just wanted to have fun fell in love with the lady he was seeing and she dumped him.

Last night I had a very interesting conversation with a man I just met. He was saying that relationships are hard because in order for the relationship to survive you both have to have common interests and time to spend together. I added that yes, these need to be in place and at the same time we have to have a mutual connection that goes beyond physical because physical relationships do not last. I think this is where it is hard for men (no pun intended) but when men see a physically attractive lady their thoughts do go to wanting to talk to her, get to know her enough to pursued her to have sex and I am not sure they are thinking beyond that connection. They have their fun, the man realizes she has a personality of a rock or she is too ______ (something) and she is left wondering what happened while he's off chasing after the next pretty lady. My approach to this is if the man is not willing to get to know me as a person the rest won't happen. So is my list too high? Nah, I think I have learned from my mistakes in life and I am not willing to be miserable just to be with anyone.


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## MAJDEATH

I would think the pool of opportunity is shallow after 40, and full of sharks and jaded folks. And if you do happen to find the great person over 40, never married there's usually a reason why.
It's funny that I have a friend from college that is 45 and never married. And my wife has a girlfriend that is 36 and never married.


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## Ynot

Well, I don't think anybody should settle for less than what they expect. Unfortunately I also think that many have expectations that are just not realistic, especially having lived so much life already. While some people may have blindly stumbled into a LTR on their first go round, most of us have many STR before we transition into a LTR. This is where I think many people over 40 have unrealistic expectations. They want an LTR but are unwilling to give STRs a chance to develop into one. BananaPeel gave an excellent example of one that did. OTOH, as FIP said, many women (and some men) are broken hearted when they don't. But the broken hearted is based on the unrealistic expectation that EVERY relationship should be a LTR. 
That brings me to another unrealistic expectation, which involves sex. At this point in most people's lives they have had sex. Hopefully at this point, they have come to realize that sex is simply a physical act, completely separate from the emotion of love. Many people, especially anybody that has been in any type of semi-serious relationship have had sex on a regular basis. Yet, many attempt to use sex as the "trip wire" of a relationship. Either they hold out because they are saving themselves for some moral or religious reason, or have some arbitrary time line, or imagine that having sex automatically creates an unbreakable bond. But the reality is, that most of us had had sex before. We know what it is about and we really won't know what we want and like until we experiment and find out. 
I just think many people have unrealistic expectation. I would never advise anyone to settle, but I would advise them to be realistic in their expectations.


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## Ynot

MAJDEATH said:


> I would think the pool of opportunity is shallow after 40, and full of sharks and jaded folks. And if you do happen to find the great person over 40, never married there's usually a reason why.
> It's funny that I have a friend from college that is 45 and never married. And my wife has a girlfriend that is 36 and never married.


And you would be wrong!


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## personofinterest

> I would never advise anyone to settle, but I would advise them to be realistic in their expectations.


If people followed this one sentence, so much angst would be avoided. And half the incel threads on relationship forums wouldn't exist.


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