# Moving



## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Some background:
My husband and I have been separated 7 months, I've been living with my parents during this time. Husband and I have a 2 year old daughter who lives with me but visits him on weekends. 

Why we separated:
When we got married, I moved in with him. His mother, brother, and sister lived in the same house. (Siblings were all adults, well in to their 30's). His brother got married and his wife came to live with us too. They had a baby as well. Needless to say I was VERY VERY unhappy with this arrangement. Husband refused to move out, said he could not live without his mom. Long story short - we used to fight a lot, he would create a spectacle in front of his family and I felt humiliated and unloved. The last straw was when he called his brother during one of our arguments, told him to come home and kick me out. I decided at that point, enough was enough.

The process:
We tried to reconcile. Clearly, he didn't think I'd actually leave, and was shocked that I did. I told him we could make things work if he moved in to an apartment with me (no more living with his family), went to counselling, worked on his anger problems, started communicating, stopped ignoring my needs, and stopped yelling at me or threatening me in front of his family. The last time we really communicated was in December, I officially asked him in front of the counsellor to move in to an apartment with me, and he said no. His reason: he has responsibilities to his brother and has to make sure they sell the house first. Uhm excuse me, what about your own wife and child? Your brother makes more money than you and has his own family, he doesn't need you, I do. I told him I wouldn't live with my parents forever and I'm planning to move with or without him. He basically shrugged his shoulders and said, if you want to move, go ahead, but I can't do it right now. He also blames me for being "impatient".

My dilemma:
I found a great condo to rent. Moving this weekend. Feel great about myself, finally at a point where I feel like I'm putting my life back together. But I have not told my husband that I am actually moving. I know he gave me the go-ahead in December by shrugging his shoulders and saying "go ahead", but again - knowing him - he probably didn't think I actually would. So I'm afraid he'll react badly. As in, say things that will totally make me upset and sad, at a time when I'm supposed to be happy and excited. We don't talk to each other unless it's about our daughter. Should I even bother to tell him? Or just leave it to when he picks her up, basically tell him "here's my address, we live here now"?

Also there's a part of me that thinks he'll one day wake up and try to make things work. I keep telling myself to let go of that...if he hasn't been the husband or man I need up to this point, he won't magically change. But part of me still hopes.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

I wouldn't tell him right now. As you have stated, he will just rain on your parade and turn what should be a happy time for you into pure misery.

Can you continue making the child swap at your parents' house? Or pick a neutral, convenient spot near your new condo. Like a bank or restaurant parking lot.

My guess is he's going to start coming around to your new place trying to worm his way back, once he sees how you are creating a new life for yourself.

Are you prepared for that? How will you handle it? Do you still want to be with him?


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

happy as a clam said:


> I wouldn't tell him right now. As you have stated, he will just rain on your parade and turn what should be a happy time for you into pure misery.
> 
> Can you continue making the child swap at your parents' house? Or pick a neutral, convenient spot near your new condo. Like a bank or restaurant parking lot.
> 
> ...


Yes, I can ask him to drop her off at my parent's, it will put off me telling him about the move for at least another week.

I'm an honest person and dislike putting off something that I know will be unpleasant...I'd rather get it out of the way. But in this case I have to agree with you, I just don't want him to cause me any more unhappiness especially when I'm looking forward to my move. He's done enough of that already.

I am very angry that he chose to take care of his brother, his brother's wife/child and his mom over me and our daughter. I think he proved that he's not capable of being a dependable husband or dad. So if he does try to worm his way back in, I don't know if I'll even take him back. Right now, no, I don't want to. I want to move on. We haven't fixed ANY of our issues, it would just be more arguments if he ever lived with me again. And I don't want a visitor, I want a full-time husband. I will not allow him to just visit us and be a part time husband...it's either all or nothing.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*I'm in agreement with HappyAsAClam! I'm just totally mystified by his habitual connection to his family ~ it seems greatly like an addiction!

I would think that you are preeminently doing the best thing possible for you and your child; but will also be making an even more life-altering future decision as to whether or not your H remains to be an integral part of it!

He may well see the new living arrangement as something for the three of you to consider ~ but you may be at a personal impasse to even remotely entertain that most questionable possibility!*


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

In your case, I would not give him the address. He would probably harass you. In the mean time, you probably should detach. There is no certainty that he will compromise enough for what you want to be in a marriage with. He pretty much treats you like an outsider. He gives himself more importance than he really has, and that tells me that he has a higher view of himself. He places himself on a pedestal, or either that he plays himself up to hide his insecurities.. I personally think the former.

Whatever he promises, just ignore it. Anyone can promise anything, but action actually means something is being done. His promises has not amount to much. He is trying to draw you into his sphere of influence.

He picked his biological family over the family he created with you. He neglects you and he expects you to be submissive to his whims. Until he sees you as a person with her own thoughts and needs, he is not going to treat you as his partner.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

arbitrator said:


> *I'm in agreement with HappyAsAClam! I'm just totally mystified by his habitual connection to his family ~ it seems greatly like an addiction!
> 
> I would think that you are preeminently doing the best thing possible for you and your child; but will also be making an even more life-altering future decision as to whether or not your H remains to be an integral part of it!
> 
> He may well see the new living arrangement as something for the three of you to consider ~ but you may be at a personal impasse to even remotely entertain that most questionable possibility!*


I love the way you express yourself. Thank you (and everyone else) for the feedback. 

You are absolutely right, by the way - if tomorrow he said he wants to visit me to talk, I'd say to him, "You picked your mom and brother over us, you neglected us for 7 months, and I can't and won't just ignore that. You won't be the husband I need, so no, you can't just walk back in to our lives." If he wants it, he'll have to prove it with actions, consistently, over time.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> In your case, I would not give him the address. He would probably harass you. In the mean time, you probably should detach. There is no certainty that he will compromise enough for what you want to be in a marriage with. He pretty much treats you like an outsider. He gives himself more importance than he really has, and that tells me that he has a higher view of himself. He places himself on a pedestal, or either that he plays himself up to hide his insecurities.. I personally think the former.
> 
> Whatever he promises, just ignore it. Anyone can promise anything, but action actually means something is being done. His promises has not amount to much. He is trying to draw you into his sphere of influence.
> 
> He picked his biological family over the family he created with you. He neglects you and he expects you to be submissive to his whims. Until he sees you as a person with her own thoughts and needs, he is not going to treat you as his partner.


I don't think he'd harrass me, in fact I think the opposite might happen: he'll ignore me even more, and resent me even further, and it might drive him completely away. Initially, I'll have some negative feedback, enough to ruin a day or two, but in the long term, I honestly think he just does NOT care about me.

In which case, I'm actually quite fine with that. I just don't want it to happen when I'm moving...deferring it a couple weeks sounds like a good plan. I have enough to worry about.

It's fair to say that I have detached a lot. He has, too (at least I think so). He blames me for everything that went wrong - he says I'm a bad person for not wanting to live together with his biological family, that I'm materialistic for wanting my own space, and that I forced him with my actions to yell at me/threaten me/belittle me. He also says that I'm the one who ultimately left (completely denies all responsibility of trying to kick me out). He says he tried to do everything in his power to make things right (all he did was apologize a few times and ask me to come back...when I said no, he gave up).

I honestly don't think he deserves me. At all. I feel like he failed as a father, too. The only reason I'm not delving in to a custody battle is because our daughter loves her dad. At the beginning, I'd hype her up in preparation for going to her dad's house on Fridays, I'd clap my hands and act excited and now she loves going there. I do it all for her, not for him.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

orange_pekoe said:


> i love the way you express yourself. Thank you (and everyone else) for the feedback.
> 
> you are absolutely right, by the way - if tomorrow he said he wants to visit me to talk, i'd say to him, "you picked your mom and brother over us, you neglected us for 7 months, and i can't and won't just ignore that. You won't be the husband i need, so no, you can't just walk back in to our lives." if he wants it, he'll have to prove it with actions, consistently, over time.


*Amen!*


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

If his cultural expectations are that young married couples move in with the husband's family, he isn't likely to change. So there's really no point in telling him you've moved. Maybe eventually you might but no hurry on that. He chose his birth family over you and your child. He doesn't need to know. 

Good luck with the move -- it's a great step!!


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Openminded said:


> If his cultural expectations are that young married couples move in with the husband's family, he isn't likely to change. So there's really no point in telling him you've moved. Maybe eventually you might but no hurry on that. He chose his birth family over you and your child. He doesn't need to know.
> 
> Good luck with the move -- it's a great step!!


His cultural expectation is also that a young woman should not be living on her own. So yep, I'm sure he'll come up with a lot of negative judgments and conclusions.

Honestly, to hell with him. I'm so over what this idiot thinks about me. If he's not willing to provide for me and our daughter, I WILL, my way, in my own condo, in my own space, and nobody will stop me!


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

(Sorry for the outburst and thank you for the encouragement!)


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## Sammy64 (Oct 28, 2013)

Nothing to be sorry about ....


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## WifeyRes (Mar 19, 2012)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Some background:
> My husband and I have been separated 7 months, I've been living with my parents during this time. Husband and I have a 2 year old daughter who lives with me but visits him on weekends.
> 
> Why we separated:
> ...


Hey hi firstly I would like to say that's a big step you took and I admire your courage Well done.

You did the right thing starting your life again you do not owe him and explanation clearly he cares more about his Mother and brother than he does you and your daughter so don't tell him your new address.

Good Luck moving..


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## Malpheous (May 3, 2013)

You said you've separated and that you have the child during the week and dad has parenting time on weekends. Leaves me thinking there's a temporary order of custody from the court involved, or a filed MSA. I'd check the wording of any court orders, or legal filings, between the two of you. 

It's quite common to have some sort of residential wording included that many times references a requirement to notify the other party in the event of a move. If there isn't anything in the papers, you should still consider asking a lawyer or searching Google Scholar to see if your state has anything on the books that would be considered a default requirement in the absence of that wording.

If you move without notification and violate and order, MSA or state statute, you could be handing him the opportunity to make life fun for you in court.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

How old are you? Why is he so attached to his family? Are they Indian, Chinese or Jewish?


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

WifeyRes said:


> Hey hi firstly I would like to say that's a big step you took and I admire your courage Well done.
> 
> You did the right thing starting your life again you do not owe him and explanation clearly he cares more about his Mother and brother than he does you and your daughter so don't tell him your new address.
> 
> Good Luck moving..


Thank you for your kind words. Moving in to my own place has not been an easy step, but a necessary one. It's liberating. A little lonely, and it is a transition, but I feel like I'm starting fresh and can honestly say that I respect myself a lot more now!


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Malpheous said:


> You said you've separated and that you have the child during the week and dad has parenting time on weekends. Leaves me thinking there's a temporary order of custody from the court involved, or a filed MSA. I'd check the wording of any court orders, or legal filings, between the two of you.
> 
> It's quite common to have some sort of residential wording included that many times references a requirement to notify the other party in the event of a move. If there isn't anything in the papers, you should still consider asking a lawyer or searching Google Scholar to see if your state has anything on the books that would be considered a default requirement in the absence of that wording.
> 
> If you move without notification and violate and order, MSA or state statute, you could be handing him the opportunity to make life fun for you in court.


We actually have no official custody in place, or papers, haven't even talked to a lawyer. It's a completely informal arrangement between the two of us that kind of "fell in to place" because she has been living with me, but her dad also wants to see her when he's not working.

I know that when it is time to file divorce papers and talk about custody arrangements, the courts will be hesitant to change this plan because our daughter has gotten accustomed to it. At least that's what I've read.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> How old are you? Why is he so attached to his family? Are they Indian, Chinese or Jewish?


He (and his siblings and mother) have a very intensely dependant relationship with each other. It is not normal.

My father in law passed away when my husband was 3 years old. Their mom took care of them - they were living in a 3rd world country and struggled to come to Canada and now they're all educated and financially well-off. Sounds to me like their mom brainwashed them in to thinking that they must ALWAYS be with her no matter what, and must always stick together. A "we versus the world" mentality. 

I actually feel quite sad for him, when I think of how lonely it must have been growing up.


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

Just wait until you get completely moved in and then give him your new address.

You really can't keep his kids address away from him.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

tacoma said:


> Just wait until you get completely moved in and then give him your new address.
> 
> You really can't keep his kids address away from him.


I never planned to keep my daughter's address a secret. Just wondered if I should tell him while I was moving, or wait a couple of weeks.

Somehow, calling him and saying, "I wanted to let you know that we are moving, and here is our new address" seems very silly when he's completely absolved himself of all responsibility. He doesn't deserve that courtesy.

I'll tell him when he picks her up this weekend.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

I decided to text him just now, and tell him we recently moved. Gave him the address so that he's aware he'll have to drive a bit farther to pick her up from now on.

I'm feeling nervous and kind of sick.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I guessed that his family came from a non Western European/North American background. The link of obligation can be very strong in some cultures. The wealthier societies become, the more they minimize family relations based on guilt. 

This gives people more and more individual freedom but also erodes the nuclear family.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> I guessed that his family came from a non Western European/North American background. The link of obligation can be very strong in some cultures. The wealthier societies become, the more they minimize family relations based on guilt.
> 
> This gives people more and more individual freedom but also erodes the nuclear family.


This is true, I agree, but my husband and I are of the same culture and nationality. So to see that his mentality and mine are SO different, says a lot. It says that logic and reason can (and should) be applied to age-old cultural practices - it says that if we clearly see that something is destructive to our relationship, we should discontinue the practice.

My brothers would never force their wives to live with my parents. Never.

Many friends and family members from my background shake their heads, and think, "What's the big deal, he should just agree to move out! Why's he being such a Momma's boy?!" when they hear my plight.

This is not about our culture. This is about his Mom brainwashing her kids in to thinking they will go to hell if they don't live with her, because God will punish them for abandoning her and society will shun them. Really - that's what they think.


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## VFW (Oct 24, 2012)

Actually this is an age old question that is discussed in the Bible. I don't say this to really make a religious point, but the writer makes the point that a man has to leave his parents and join his wife. They are to become one, not just in physical sense, but to join forces together and forsaking all others. This does not mean that you have to abandon your families, but their is no woman that would want to be a second-class citizen in her own marriage. 

I love my mother as much as any man, but I don't want to live with her, nor would she want me to. I think that part of being a parent is teaching your children how to be independent and being able to take care of themselves. 

I think most relationships can be fixed, if both parties put in the hard work to fix the problems. His total disregard to fix the relationship is very telling and a huge red flag. Think long and hard before you consider reconciliation.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Hope you're safely moved in by now and starting to get used to the peace! His family sounds like a headache, honestly, but at least you don't have to live with them anymore, and perhaps once you have some distance, you and your husband's family can start to build a healthier or at least civil back and forth for your children's sake, without being as much of an imposition.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

VFW said:


> Actually this is an age old question that is discussed in the Bible. I don't say this to really make a religious point, but the writer makes the point that a man has to leave his parents and join his wife. They are to become one, not just in physical sense, but to join forces together and forsaking all others. This does not mean that you have to abandon your families, but their is no woman that would want to be a second-class citizen in her own marriage.
> 
> I love my mother as much as any man, but I don't want to live with her, nor would she want me to. I think that part of being a parent is teaching your children how to be independent and being able to take care of themselves.
> 
> I think most relationships can be fixed, if both parties put in the hard work to fix the problems. His total disregard to fix the relationship is very telling and a huge red flag. Think long and hard before you consider reconciliation.


You have very good points, all of which I agree with.
I was not only a 2nd class citizen in my home, I was a 3rd class citizen. Because I had to deal with not only his mom, but his brother's wife, who was very over-bearing and wanted everything done her way. 

In his mind, he hasn't "totally disregarded" our relationship - he says that he's apologized for yelling and humiliating me and that I should have come back to live with him. And since I did not go back to live with him, then it's not his fault. He also told me that I must accept that his mother will live with us, otherwise "he is not the man for me"...Honestly, sometimes I feel as though he's built a fantasy-world and does not pay attention to what is actually happening, but rather, what he believes he wants to happen.

Somebody in another thread wrote something about a "dance of death" that couples do. Meaning, they argue, blame each other, demand that their needs be met, but neither of them do anything to meet each other's needs. So their relationship destructs. That's what my husband and I did: my need is to have my own home away and apart from his family, and his NEED is to be with them. To the point where he's willing to throw away his wife and child. It breaks my heart. I had compromised and lived with his family for 3 years but he has not compromised an inch for me.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

joannacroc said:


> Hope you're safely moved in by now and starting to get used to the peace! His family sounds like a headache, honestly, but at least you don't have to live with them anymore, and perhaps once you have some distance, you and your husband's family can start to build a healthier or at least civil back and forth for your children's sake, without being as much of an imposition.


It is a BIG relief not living with his family anymore. They made me miserable, and had a "gang" mentality, and even got me to question my own morals, values and sanity. When you're in an environment where everyone tells you that YOU are wrong...you start to maybe believe it...even though inside, your gut tells you to "get out". My gut finally won.

The reason this is such a hard transition, is because: when I was living with my parents, I didn't feel my husband's absence too much. My parents helped me, and they filled the void. But now I do everything on my own in the evening, so I feel my husband's absence. And it makes me resent him, hate him, even miss him. Yesterday I went to the mall to look for furniture, and as I sat down to have a sip of coffee, I actually cried. Right there in the mall lol in public, tears were rolling down my face because I felt as though my very nearest, dearest loved one had passed away. I feel like I've lost so much, been sooooo disappointed, by someone who should have been there for me. I also feel really badly for my daughter.She should have had both her parents actively, lovingly together in her life.

Even though, in the end, I was the one who left, I feel like he's the one who abandoned us.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

By the way - he said nothing when I texted him that we had moved. Absolutely nothing.

The next day, he was supposed to tell me what time he'd pick up our daughter (this is our usual Friday routine) - but he didn't send a text. I finally texted him to ask, and he ignored it.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

OP, I know exactly how you feel. You left because you had no choice, and it's devastating and it makes you angry that you were forced to do something you didn't want to do. 

I will tell you, it does get better. It really does. Unfortunately, what I can't do is tell you when it will get better.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

BlueWoman said:


> OP, I know exactly how you feel. You left because you had no choice, and it's devastating and it makes you angry that you were forced to do something you didn't want to do.
> 
> I will tell you, it does get better. It really does. Unfortunately, what I can't do is tell you when it will get better.


It is devastating. Emotionally crippling at times. 
Thank you for your kind words. I hope it gets better.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> It is a BIG relief not living with his family anymore. They made me miserable, and had a "gang" mentality, and even got me to question my own morals, values and sanity. When you're in an environment where everyone tells you that YOU are wrong...you start to maybe believe it...even though inside, your gut tells you to "get out". My gut finally won.
> 
> The reason this is such a hard transition, is because: when I was living with my parents, I didn't feel my husband's absence too much. My parents helped me, and they filled the void. But now I do everything on my own in the evening, so I feel my husband's absence. And it makes me resent him, hate him, even miss him. Yesterday I went to the mall to look for furniture, and as I sat down to have a sip of coffee, I actually cried. Right there in the mall lol in public, tears were rolling down my face because I felt as though my very nearest, dearest loved one had passed away. I feel like I've lost so much, been sooooo disappointed, by someone who should have been there for me. I also feel really badly for my daughter.She should have had both her parents actively, lovingly together in her life.
> 
> Even though, in the end, I was the one who left, I feel like he's the one who abandoned us.


He did.

It really piss/%& me off when people don't put their children first.

"Ohhh i'm not happy, i'm miserable" "Ohh you don't make me happy anymore", every case is different, barring abuse or infidelity you OWE them your children to at least try.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf said:


> He did.
> 
> It really piss/%& me off when people don't put their children first.
> 
> "Ohhh i'm not happy, i'm miserable" "Ohh you don't make me happy anymore", every case is different, barring abuse or infidelity you OWE them your children to at least try.


He tells me I'm the one who left, and asked me to come back "for our daughter".

I told him the reason I left was for our daughter! I don't want her growing up in a dysfunctional home where everyone hates each other and we're always fighting and unhappy. She deserves to be happy, and so do I! If he wanted us to be a family unit, he'd have moved in to an apartment with us, instead of sitting his sorry ass down in the living room with his Mommy like he always does.

This is a grown man whose umbilical chord has not yet been cut.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

So a quick update: someone here mentioned that my husband would start dropping by after I move, and this weekend was his first time. You were right.

He dropped off our daughter and usually we don't talk to each other, but I decided to make a positive change and I said hello. So he said “Hello…do you know what our daughter said to me today? She said, Daddy don’t go.” And he started tearing up…and he told me, “If you still want to make our marriage work then sell your condo and let’s move in to a new place together.” I told him that I asked him several times to move in with me and he didn’t do so, and now that I’ve had to move on my own, I’m not planning to leave this place. So we said goodbye and I went home with my daughter…and I texted him and mentioned that I didn’t buy the condo, I’m only renting it.

That’s when he asked to come upstairs and talk to me. I said no, we always fight and don’t come to a resolution, I want to be happy today, I don’t have furniture for you to sit on etc. but he wouldn’t take no for an answer. So he came up.

I made him tea, and then we sat down to talk. He said, “If you want to try one more time, come with me, we will look at a condo for rent and live together.” And I told him, this condo is perfect for us, if you want to live with me, I will welcome you. And he said no, this condo is too small, we need a 3 bedroom SO MY MOM CAN LIVE WITH US, and it has to be in *such and such* area. I said, you made all these decisions without me…who did you make them with? (He obviously makes these decisions with his brother but I wanted him to say it.) And he started to get upset and said, “I made this decision” (which I know is not true).

Here’s the deal…his brother and his brother’s wife want to live in a particular area of the city because the woman wants to be near her parents. And my husband wants to live in the same building as them. So he’s asking me to move out of my newly rented condo, in to another rented condo wherever his brother chooses to live. And on top of that, he wants his mother to live with us.

I obviously said no. I told him, now that I’ve moved, I’m not planning to move for a few years…I asked you several times to come and pick a place with me and you put your biological family’s needs before the needs of your daughter and I. We were supposed to be your family…but you neglected us. The past 7 months have been very hard and I can’t just forget the fact that you let us fend for ourselves. 

He kept saying, “You’ve done things too…but I am choosing to forget and move forward.” 

This really angers me. He kicked me out of his house! Over what – over me telling him that it hurt me when he took his mom to a friend’s house and not me (even though I was invited and wanted to go). The punishment nowhere NEAR fits the “crime” (I wouldn’t even consider it a crime!) And now he wants to tell me that I did a lot of things too…I take ownership of the fact that we BOTH got in to arguments with each other, but what he did to me was outright emotionally and verbally and psychologically abusive. And I will not “just forget it”. We need counselling. I want to be an active participant in the healing of my marriage – not a “let’s ignore it and it will go away” bystander.

What did it come down to? He said “OK” and left. After 7 months of separation, he STILL puts his biological family before me and our daughter. I refuse to succumb and live where his brother lives…that’s just retarded. I am my own person and I want to make choices independent of his brother and brother’s wife. And the thing about his Mom living with us…God no…thank God I picked the smallest place possible because if he ever does move in with me, there’s no room for her!

Here’s the issue: If tomorrow some kind of miracle happens, and he says, “OK I’ll move in and live with you here”…I’m not sure I’ll be happy. In fact, I know I won’t be. I”ll be scared. Worried. Stressed. Because I don’t trust him – he has rage issues, anger issues, and can explode over small things. I’m afraid he’ll start screaming again, the neighbours will hear, he’ll call his brother, involve them. I’m afraid of all the arguments. I’ve spent this time trying to heal myself and come to some measure of peace, and I’m worried that if I let him back in, my peace will be gone. I have no idea how to heal or repair things with his family because I truly hate them at times. And my husband will continue to put their needs first…and I don’t know how my husband will act around my family anymore. They used to get along but since our separation of course, there must be resentment on both sides. 

I tell myself not to expect anything from this man. When he left, I stood with our daughter by the door while he was waiting for the elevator. I told her, “say bye to Daddy”. I know he was crying…but I don’t understand it. He can choose us, and have a chance at fixing this relationship…but he still wants to live next to his brother? I wanted him to remember that image of me and our daughter standing by the door, watching him leave. Because that’s what he’s done to us. Left us alone.

I don’t know how to fix this. I don’t even know if I want to anymore. How do you fix something that is so broken, and fragile?

BUT - I am going to focus on the positive. Which is: we were able to have a civilized conversation without arguing or fighting or raising our voices. And that is very important to me because if this divorce does in fact happen, I want to always speak to my daughter's father in a respectful civilized way. And I expect the same in return. For my daughter's sake.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Here’s the issue: If tomorrow some kind of miracle happens, and he says, “OK I’ll move in and live with you here”…I’m not sure I’ll be happy. In fact, I know I won’t be


Not an issue. His family comes first. It always will.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He may decide to choose you when his mother is gone someday but not before. As long as she's here, he wants her with him. And he will still want to live next to his brother even when his mother's gone. That's the message he's sending you. 

Those ties are stronger than his ties with you. Even if he should by some miracle change (and that's not likely) he would harbor deep resentment for having to do it and throw it in your face every time you fought. Your daughter would grow up seeing her parents with a dysfunctional marriage and probably repeat that dysfunction in her own marriage. 

The choice you made is the right one.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Openminded said:


> He may decide to choose you when his mother is gone someday but not before. As long as she's here, he wants her with him. And he will still want to live next to his brother even when his mother's gone. That's the message he's sending you.
> 
> Those ties are stronger than his ties with you. Even if he should by some miracle change (and that's not likely) he would harbor deep resentment for having to do it and throw it in your face every time you fought. Your daughter would grow up seeing her parents with a dysfunctional marriage and probably repeat that dysfunction in her own marriage.
> 
> The choice you made is the right one.


I agree with everything you wrote. 
My mom tells me that he's my husband, and he's opening up to the opportunity of living together with me, therefore I should also "give in" a little.

I have a very strong urge to yell "NO" when she says those things. Simply because, it's not just a matter of where we live. It's a matter of his attachment to his family being SO STRONG that my daughter and I suffered 8 months of a separation from my husband, due to it. And he continues to choose them. And always will. No matter what. And I just can't live with that...I just can't. I deserve better, don't I?

I grew up watching my parents constantly fighting, wishing they were divorced. I hated that they stayed together "for the kids". I don't want to do that to my child, and won't. I hope she understands why I made this decision, when she's older. She won't see her parents fighting, she'll see her dad as a nice great guy, and wonder why I left him.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Yes, you do deserve better. Much better. And you'll find it!

PS
Your daughter will understand one day. She'll ask questions and you'll explain.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Openminded said:


> Yes, you do deserve better. Much better. And you'll find it!
> 
> PS
> Your daughter will understand one day. She'll ask questions and you'll explain.


Thank you.
My brain tells me I deserve better. My heart says that he's the man I fell in love with, and the father of my child, and we had many happy times together (despite the problems), so maybe I should still hold on a while longer.

Which one will win in the end? Time will tell.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Since he came to visit me in my condo, and asked me to move in to another apartment with him and his mom, I realized he wanted to make it work. So I thought about it, and realized that if my daughter could understand what was happening, she'd say "try one more time, for my sake".

So I sent him an email inviting him to live with my daughter and I. I also mentioned that it was conditional on him not yelling at/threatening me, his family not interfering, and that we both have to go to couples counselling together to learn how to rebuilt trust/respect between us.

He responded by saying that the condo I live in is too small for us and his mom, and that I should break my new condo contract and look for another place with him. The other place would, of course, be in the same building his brother decides to live in.

So I wrote back basically saying, I'm not negotiating, I only invited you to live with us. And you've decided not to move in with us, so our marriage is over, thank you for the good times, let's concentrate on our daughter's happiness/wellbeing going forward.

And he agreed.

My heart is bleeding. I didn't want to get a divorce, but I'm also relieved and happy at the same time. The only thing that scared me more than him saying "no" to my invitation, was him saying "yes". His family made me so emotionally weak that I have no ability to handle the stress and anxiety of being with or around them. 

Life is really hard sometimes. I hope one day I will look back at this and think of it as "something that I went through and that was all worth it".


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

You can make it worth it by learning. There were too many people in your relationship, that it stopped being a marriage between the two of you. Even if his mother lived with his brother, she will still likely influence his thoughts and actions. It was not like you could ask him to cut contact with his family. Plus, you should have asked for individual counseling first. He needs to understand how unhealthy his attachment to his mother is. Marriage counseling would not do that much good, until he can cut his mother from your relationship.

If your not seeing a therapist, I suggest you make plans and goals. Write a list of things that you can do to move on with your life. Do things that make you happy, and if you need a support system, gather one around you. The little changes you make, will slowly have a bigger impact later on.


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## Regretf (Oct 13, 2014)

Orange_Pekoe said:


> Since he came to visit me in my condo, and asked me to move in to another apartment with him and his mom, I realized he wanted to make it work. So I thought about it, and realized that if my daughter could understand what was happening, she'd say "try one more time, for my sake".
> 
> So I sent him an email inviting him to live with my daughter and I. I also mentioned that it was conditional on him not yelling at/threatening me, his family not interfering, and that we both have to go to couples counselling together to learn how to rebuilt trust/respect between us.
> 
> ...


In the end, good for you and your daughter. I still don't understand your H unwillingness to move back with you and your daughter, sabe your family. He has attachments that are stronger with his mom and brother, he will never be happy with anyone else, not a lot of people will put up with that. And he'll live to regret it.

You go on, be happy. Your daughter deserves it. You gave your H every single chance in the world and he wouldn't take it. You can walk out of this proud that you tried evrything.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> If your not seeing a therapist, I suggest you make plans and goals. Write a list of things that you can do to move on with your life. Do things that make you happy, and if you need a support system, gather one around you. The little changes you make, will slowly have a bigger impact later on.


Thank you. I am trying to do things that bring me happiness, and I rely on my support system a lot as well. I even spent my lunch break today running on a treadmill. I was so frustrated and unhappy and full of anxiety that I knew the only way to shake it off was to literally run.

I texted his brother's wife this morning regarding some bad words she was teaching/saying to my daughter (2 year olds have big mouths!). Of course, she denied it, but I have proof and called her out on it. Anyway - point is - that whole conversation made my hands shake, from stress and anxiety. It reminded me of the 3 years I spent with shaking hands every time I was unhappy with something his family members did. And it reminded me of why I left, why this divorce is happening. I cannot have those people constantly interfering in my life any more. I stayed with my husband and tolerated it until I was past my breaking point...now I have no ability to deal with it. Emotionally, I am very weak. My shaking hands are proof of that. I need time to be away from them and heal and hopefully never see them again. And instead, focus on the people that I do love and like and who are active participants in my life.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Regretf said:


> In the end, good for you and your daughter. I still don't understand your H unwillingness to move back with you and your daughter, sabe your family. He has attachments that are stronger with his mom and brother, he will never be happy with anyone else, not a lot of people will put up with that. And he'll live to regret it.
> 
> You go on, be happy. Your daughter deserves it. You gave your H every single chance in the world and he wouldn't take it. You can walk out of this proud that you tried evrything.


Thank you. I am at work and crying so much. My coworkers must be wondering why I leave my desk so often.

For my daughter and for myself, I will try to be happy. The first step is to create a caring, nurturing, peaceful environment in my home for her to grow up in. I think we have one, but there are improvements to be made (sometimes I yell at her when she doesn't listen). I'm tired of sitting back and waiting for my life to get better...I want to be proactive.

I am thankful for the advice and support everyone here is giving.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Here is a link to help with anxiety.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/mindfulness

Another way to help with the anxiety is making plans. Don't worry about making mistakes, just learn from them when they arise. It will help you keep going and stop being stuck.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

Mr.Fisty said:


> Here is a link to help with anxiety.
> https://www.psychologytoday.com/basics/mindfulness
> 
> Another way to help with the anxiety is making plans. Don't worry about making mistakes, just learn from them when they arise. It will help you keep going and stop being stuck.


Thank you so much!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You have done the right thing. Your husband must understand that there are boundaries and consequences in life.

My paternal grandmother had an elder sister who was a real narcissistic witch. She married man who dumped his wife but took his children. It was during wartime and they moved far away. As long as their father was alive the children tolerated their stepmother. Once he died they deserted her completely.

Better to tell people. But waiting decades to act is a waste of life. You have taken action. You should be proud. Your husband may be directed to another woman, since he lacks the courage to stand up for himself. His enjoying his nuclear family? I doubt it but he lacks the imagination to free himself.


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## Orange_Pekoe (Jan 5, 2015)

LongWalk said:


> You have done the right thing. Your husband must understand that there are boundaries and consequences in life.
> 
> His enjoying his nuclear family? I doubt it but he lacks the imagination to free himself.


This is very true - he cannot free himself of them. He would rather give up his child, than live apart from his mother and brother.

It's better not to be married to someone who has such an unhealthy relationship with his siblings and parent. My daughter would learn the behaviour as well.


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