# When we have sex...Vanilla sex as all I get



## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

*When we have sex...Vanilla sex is all I get*

Our sexual relationship is very frustrating. My wife has the mind set that missionary sex is basically all that is needed. I go down on her ALL THE TIME and I think she enjoys it. I know that I can bring her to climax that way. Having her go down on me is always a challenge. I have to convince her to do it. Experimenting with new positions is something that took a long time to convince her to do. I ask for input about what she likes and fantasizes about and the response I get is very general and vanilla. Getting her to try anything new (when I am able to convince her) usually ends up with her saying it turns her off or makes her feel uncomfortable. I have a particular interest in lingerie and would love nothing better than my wife to dress up for me. She just wont do it. Once again she says that it makes he3r feel uncomfortable. She is very attractive and has a great figure and I tell her all the time so I don"t understand why she has these issues with feeling comfortable. I am very open minded sexually and she seems to be the total opposite. 

I am not interested in an affair but I do find myself turning to porn and masturbation in an effort to relieve my sexual tension. She caught me masturbating in the shower last week and found me viewing porn the other day. She got very upset and feels that I am not normal and thinks that this will lead to other problems. When I tried to talk to her about it and brought up our sexual relationship she says that I always blame everything on our sex life. Am I fighting a loosing battle? Anyone have any experience in dealing with a woman who just isn't interested in sex in general? I am affraid that this is not going to end well. I love her but I am not sexually happy or fulfilled. Help!:scratchhead:


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Double Trouble said:


> Our sexual relationship is very frustrating. My wife has the mind set that missionary sex is basically all that is needed. I go down on her ALL THE TIME and I think she enjoys it. I know that I can bring her to climax that way. Having her go down on me is always a challenge. I have to convince her to do it. Experimenting with new positions is something that took a long time to convince her to do. I ask for input about what she likes and fantasizes about and the response I get is very general and vanilla. Getting her to try anything new (when I am able to convince her) usually ends up with her saying it turns her off or makes her feel uncomfortable. I have a particular interest in lingerie and would love nothing better than my wife to dress up for me. She just wont do it. Once again she says that it makes he3r feel uncomfortable. She is very attractive and has a great figure and I tell her all the time so I don"t understand why she has these issues with feeling comfortable. I am very open minded sexually and she seems to be the total opposite.


So, if you manage to convince her to do anything else, it doesn't become a regular part of your sex life? If you want it again, you have to go through the convincing process each time?



> I am not interested in an affair but I do find myself turning to porn and masturbation in an effort to relieve my sexual tension. She caught me masturbating in the shower last week and found me viewing porn the other day. She got very upset and feels that I am not normal and thinks that this will lead to other problems. When I tried to talk to her about it and brought up our sexual relationship she says that I always blame everything on our sex life.


Is there any truth in this? Are there bigger / other problems that your sex life is just the symptom of? If so, then your sex life ain't going to fix them.


> Am I fighting a loosing battle? Anyone have any experience in dealing with a woman who just isn't interested in sex in general? I am affraid that this is not going to end well. I love her but I am not sexually happy or fulfilled. Help!:scratchhead:


Try Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have. By which I mean doing it like rabbits. Read the blog, buy the book(s), work the exercises. However, as the author says - it works if your wife has some interest in sex and improving your marriage. Otherwise, it might make you better for any changes in the future...


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## GhostRydr (Jun 2, 2012)

Like OP said, does she try new stuff but revert back?

I was also going to say try and ply her with some alcohol to lower her inhibitions. If shes not really a drinker, introduce her to Sangria

Real Sangria (actual name) is imprted from Spain unlike Yago and others and isnt super sweet but has a nice fruity flavor. See if $7 can get your world to be rocked.

BUT....the other part that concerns me and makes me think she is uptight/prudish, etc..is the part about the porn/jerking off. Lets say you split the difference and give her the porn part...masturbating makes her think you arent normal? 

Again, do couples talk before marriage and are guys prentending/lying to their wives they dont jerk off?

And are you women really that dislusional that men shouldnt jerk off cuz you should be "enough for him" LOL..C'mon.....

Were you taught masturbating was evil and had your hand violently slapped away and scodled for touching your no no spot by your moms or did they explain to you its natural to be done in private?

I ALWAYS talked about my sexual tastes WHILE DATING....Yep, honey, my kink is lesbian porn and I LOVE TO MASTURBATE a few times a week if ya take it personally, not "we' but YOU are gonna have a problem so get used to it. (mind you this isnt done on the first few dates) Their responses have ALWAYS been...yeah, cuz all you guys are pervs...and they laugh it off...and I go one more time...just make sure you are laughing cuz ya thinkit IS funny and not hiding being offended, cuz you are the one thats gonna be hurt if we go further....


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Double Trouble said:


> Our sexual relationship is very frustrating. My wife has the mind set that missionary sex is basically all that is needed. I go down on her ALL THE TIME and I think she enjoys it. I know that I can bring her to climax that way. Having her go down on me is always a challenge. I have to convince her to do it. Experimenting with new positions is something that took a long time to convince her to do. I ask for input about what she likes and fantasizes about and the response I get is very general and vanilla. Getting her to try anything new (when I am able to convince her) usually ends up with her saying it turns her off or makes her feel uncomfortable. I have a particular interest in lingerie and would love nothing better than my wife to dress up for me. She just wont do it. Once again she says that it makes he3r feel uncomfortable. She is very attractive and has a great figure and I tell her all the time so I don"t understand why she has these issues with feeling comfortable. I am very open minded sexually and she seems to be the total opposite.
> 
> I am not interested in an affair but I do find myself turning to porn and masturbation in an effort to relieve my sexual tension. She caught me masturbating in the shower last week and found me viewing porn the other day. She got very upset and feels that I am not normal and thinks that this will lead to other problems. When I tried to talk to her about it and brought up our sexual relationship she says that I always blame everything on our sex life. * Am I fighting a loosing battle? Anyone have any experience in dealing with a woman who just isn't interested in sex in general? I am affraid that this is not going to end well. I love her but I am not sexually happy or fulfilled. Help!*:scratchhead:


I'll address the bolded questions. 

1. Yes...you're fighting a loosing battle.
2. Yes I am going through what you are only much more severe.
3. I am afraid you may be right. It may end badly.
4. You will never be sexually fulfilled until she opens up sexually.
5. There may be no help for you. These types of spouses usually never open up again.

I'm sorry to be so bleak. I've been living it the last 8 years and it sucks.


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## ScaredandUnsure (Nov 17, 2011)

GhostRydr said:


> Like OP said, does she try new stuff but revert back?
> 
> I was also going to say try and ply her with some alcohol to lower her inhibitions. If shes not really a drinker, introduce her to Sangria
> 
> ...


I agree with your last paragraph. I've always been up front and honest about my masturbating habits as well. I usually masturbate once a day, reguardless of if I have sex or not. I've done this since I was in my 20's and I don't imagine it's going to stop anytime soon. I HAVE to fill in the gaps of sex with masturbation, I have an incredibly high sex drive and have never been with a man who could keep up with it. 

My ex husband and I had sex 3-5 times a week, and the only time that didn't happen was when I was recovering from childbirth, on pelvic rest, or had an infection of some kind (yeast or UTI). My guy and I now usually have sex 2-3 times a week (though working midnights has kind of slowed that down some, and so does my period, but I try to please him in other ways....) so masturbation has become vital lately to keep me sane.

To the OP, I understand your point about the same ol, same ol. It does indeed get boring and frustrating, so I sympathize with your plight. Hope you guys can work something out so you're both satisfied. Good Luck.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

She reluctantly will try a new idea if it's not to kinky. But ultimately, 9 times out of 10, she'll say that it makes her feel uncomfortable or turns her off. I have tried to get her to tell me what turns her on but its like pulling teeth to get an answer from her. 

I have to convince her all over again to pretty much do anything out of the norm. Even the simplest thing like wearing something sexy is a chore. The last time she put on something that was even close to sexy was almost 3 years ago for our anniversary. She rarely initiates. I would say never but since I have brought that up in discussions and have made efforts in the past not to initiate myself (weeks will pass by) she would eventually make the effort on her own. But only because I think she realized that I was intentionally holding out myself. 

We have no other deeper marital issues. We certainly have had our ups and downs just like every marriage. I know we both love each other that is what makes this so frustrating. She just can't relate and show her love sexually. 

I would basically do almost anything that she wants from me. I mean that every which way in our marriage not just sexually. She has told me in the past that one of the reasons we didn't have sex as frequently as I would like is because she was always tired and needed help around the house. I have made a concerted effort to help with the laundry, dishes, and other choirs around the house to help alleviate the load. She has also said that I didn't spend enough "us" time with her and that was driving a wedge between us. I have made a conscious effort to make time and plans for us to spend meaningful time together. I took her out last weekend and she ended our outing together by complaining it was to hot outside and she wanted to go home. I feel like I just can't win.


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## ValleyForge (Jun 26, 2012)

It sounds like she has no idea what she likes. As a woman, I can tell you it's very helpful to have to good handle on how you feel and what you want before you try to do it with other people. 

A couple pretty safe ideas that can make a good girl feel naughty enough to at least give it a thought:

1. If she doesn't have a vibrator, she should have one. If you get it, you need to not make a big deal about it. Maybe just leave it somewhere for her with a note about wanting her to be happy and feel good. It should be smallish, light colored, and non-threatening if she's prudish about using one. You would also need to give her lots of time at the house alone 

2. Passion Parties (aka tupperware parties for sex toys) are a not-very-naughty thing that makes prudish girls feel very naughty. If she doesn't know anyone that does them, it may be hard to hook this up. But they're a very good idea.

3. 50 Shades of Grey is not that kinky. For vanilla girls it's "just kinky enough." If she likes romance movies or twilight type stuff, this could be an easy present. Because EVERYONE is reading it, you could assume from that that she might like to. Like I said, it's not all that kinky, but there are a lot of sex scenes that might make a good girl think of things she wouldn't otherwise think about.

4. Maybe just say to her "I don't think I'm giving you what you want sexually, but I don't know what that is. So I'll tell you what, you tell me what you wish I would do for you in bed, and I'll try it for you, next week/month/whatever." That sounds nice and might open her up or at least get her thinking about it. Even if she doesn't have an immediate answer, it might give her something to think about.

Basically, I would just give her the time, presents, and non-pressuring encouragement to figure out BY HERSELF some things she might like, so she could then bring it to you. She needs to have her curiosity inspired and be free to explore it before acting on it. I've never been vanilla, but I've always been female, and I know if someone wants to convince me of something, they need to give me the time and opportunity to figure out how I feel about it first. Then the curiosity is your own and not something you're just doing for someone else


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

ValleyForge said:


> It sounds like she has no idea what she likes. As a woman, I can tell you it's very helpful to have to good handle on how you feel and what you want before you try to do it with other people.
> 
> A couple pretty safe ideas that can make a good girl feel naughty enough to at least give it a thought:
> 
> ...


This is fantastic advice. However, the very best advice in the world is worthless if the person it's offered to won't take it.

Nothing in the OP's posts suggest his wife is the remotest bit interested in finding out what she likes. If she doesn't see it as a problem, she won't benefit from the advice...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> *Double Trouble *said: I love her but I am not sexually happy or fulfilled


Have you sat her down and relayed this reality to her ...trying as best and lovingly as you can ....just HOW this is affecting you deep within...You are half of this marraige, and she has a right to know.... 


Most women DO NOT understand men and these incessant urges ... I know in my young marriage, I didn't "get it" either...and my husband did virtually nothing to clue me in.......He took care of MY needs just fine...jumping for that......just like YOU are going down on your wife "ALL THE TIME", she likely never feels "any urges" at all...so she is not left feeling "desperately horny" and craving sex with big fantasies running through her head. You might as well forget that happening...as you are the HIGHER drive... 

BUT...depending on how much she cares about you and wants to please you ...ONCE SHE gets the realization of how men feel loved through sex....and understands how this is affecting you... then you may have your wife on board....willing to try new things - some spicing. 


MEN are in their Prime early in marraige and women get more heated up later on -it seems. Plus some women are sexually repressed in some ways, not being comfortable expressing their sexuality. How to arouse that ....depends on her...if she is open minded enough to engage you. You are obviously the more creative force....so unless she is outright rejecting you, you will need to continue carrying the torch. Me & my husband are in mid life - I am the more creative force. 

Sounds like one of her primary Love languages is "*Acts of Service*" if she wants more help around the house, and yours may be "*Physical touch*" -but with variety! If you both can sit down, come to understand what you both are deeply craving from the other...both coming towards each other...a good start. 

Test here : The 5 Love Languages | The 5 Love Languages®

Would your wife be willing to sit down with you , reading a book together....to explore these things, to better understand each other -sexually?

This book really helped ME when I was wanting something more from my husband, more aggression, more creativity, but I found I was more the "erotic" one, and he was "sensual"... I couldn't change him....but I could get him to go along with MY creativity. So all was well. But I had to quit beating a dead horse. We all have our styles. 



> When Your Sex Drives Don't Match: Discover Your Libido Types to Create a Mutually Satisfying Sex Life
> 
> 
> *10 libido types *....
> ...


At the end of the book, it helps you wade through how you can work with your libido differences or if they just might be too much to bare. Obviously a High Drive "*Erotic*" may have some trouble being with a "*Disinterested*" libido type. 

Tips For Dealing With Different Sex Drives In a Relationship - InfoBarrel


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I think SA is on target. The best way to approach a woman who is inhibited is to approach her where she is and take into account who she is. There must have been something unique about her that made you fall in love, some quality that made her stand out from the rest of the woman you could have married. What were those special attributes? 

If, as SA suspects, she is an acts of service person, make sure that she is getting what she needs in the way of service. 

I think it is a mistake to flood her with sex toys, passion parties and books about sex. That might work for you but she needs different things. Therefore, These things are unlikely to make her a passionate lover. Coming at the problem indirectly would be much more productive I think. A direct approach will probably confirm her feelings that everything is about sex and about you. 

Another thing is realistic expectations. She may ask herself - Why does he want me to walk around in undergarments if it makes me uncomfortable? And this- How can he ask me to do things that I don't like just so he can enjoy but i am uncomfortable. They are legitimate concerns. She may feel that sex should be something that you both enjoy. 

I have to ask - did you marry a woman who was sexually adventurous or a woman who had her sexuality in control? Was she the type to exhibit herself ever? Isn't she being the woman you married? 

I'll bet if you concentrate on who she is and what you both enjoy, she will eventually open up. In my opinion, you expect her to magically transform herself into someone she is not. No one can do that, it takes little steps and support and acceptance along the way. 

For example - giving oral sex. There are a number of reasons she may not give. She does not know how, she does not want to look foolish, she has a fear of failure, thinks she will not like the taste or texture, thinks nice women don't. You can't expect her to give you a bj to completion right out of the box. 

Start with her just licking, then move up to putting the heard in her mouth and progress from there. Make it fun and playful not heavy and anxious. Make it part of foreplay for now. 

If you think that giving her oral sex makes you feel resentful and is a problem then stop. Be careful, if clitoral stimulation is the only way she can orgasm, you have to find a way that she gets what she needs. There are positions that give clitoral stimulation that you can use. 

You may have to accept that there are things that she may never do. There are things you will never be able to do for her too. You would like her to accept that as well. Take it slow and be patient, don't show anger and frustration. Keep it light and fun. 

You can't make her do anything but you may be able to make her want to do things. Try to frame the things you want in terms of what will bring both of you pleasure not what she needs to do for you. After all,, sex should be mutually satisfying. Make it more about both of you so she feels like you want her not sex acts from her.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

I really appreciate all of your input. It sounds like good advice and I will definetly take it to heart. I am planning on sitting down with her tonight and having a heart to heart. I really am looking to have a mutually fullfilling sexual relationship. I may have come accross earlier as a guy who wanted eveything for himself. I understand that I am not going to get all my sexual fantasies fullfilled. I would just like to have a little adventure. 

I have been thinking about this situation all day and it is driving me insane. I am truely affraid of sitting her down and telling her how deeply this is affecting me. I am not only frustrated but also becoming depressed. I am very fearful that we are just not sexually compatable and this 27 year marriage is about to end in divorce.

Our story is a long one and I would bore you with all the details but just to give you an idea of what I got myself into is that my wife was a virgin when we got married. I can kick myself for fooling myself into thinking that I could "groom" her into the woman that I wanted her to be. I was young and stupid. We would fool around during our courtship but I never even got her naked. She was very affectionate and showed many signs of being sensual. She was definetly the "good girl" type. I fell in love with her and convinced myself that everything would be okay sexually. I loved everything else about her. Now 27 years later and 3 children I am about to loose my mind. I am scared to death that this isn't going to end well and I am going to end up alone.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Double - it is not time to give up, yet. Give it more time. Although it has been 27 yrs, it sounds like this is the first time you have been so frustrated that you were ready to give up your marriage. You have not even started yet. That may sound strange but leaving the past behind, look forward and take what you have now and work from there. 

It might help to put a definite time line on your efforts - 6 months? After which you can take it ti the next step. You can try for 6 more months right. Seeing an end in sight will help you to hang on. 

Do you care to say what happened to get you worked up? Did you meet another woman that attracted you? What happened? 

Since you have been married for a long time, you may see each other but not see each other. Try to change some things about yourself. Get a new haircut, update your wardrobe, take up a new hobby, go out for dinner with a relative or good friends. Wear a light aftershave. There are always things that you can do to improve yourself. What things would like to change? 

Don't be clingy with your wife be a little cool and calm. 

I don't think you should talk to her when you are in this emotional state. I think you will come off as too desperate. Try to hold it together until this storm passes. Please use your energy to read the references that SA has suggested. 

You will read a lot of pessimistic post about the possibility for change. It may seem that it is impossible to turn this around but remember where you are. The people who have been successful are not here. There are stories of success on the board. 

Keep posting your frustration it helps to vent, it also helps to hear encouraging words. When it is time, you may have to tell your wife that you want to separate if you remain so unhappy. That is a last resort, I don't think you should do that now. She does need to know how unhappy you are and how serious an issue this is for the marriage. Give her a chance to respond.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

I was trying to work up the courage all day and night yesterday to begin this dialogue with her. I just couldn't do it. It took ANOTHER sleepless night and a good work out at the gym this morning to muster up enough energy and time to align my thoughts together were I was able to sit her down this afternoon and have this discussion. I think she understands how deeply this is affecting me and how important this problem is to me. We had a long and very extensive conversation covering all my concerns and hers too.

I learned some things about her which were insightful. She has a strong phobia about someone (one of our children or a relative) walking in on us when we are being intimate. This actually did happen once quite a few years ago. We were home alone together and we were fooling around and she was half naked when my parents dropped by unexpectedly and she had to quickly run upstairs and grab a robe. This obviously really bothered her and still is affecting the way she thinks today. 

We talked about things we could try to spice up our love life. I repeatedly asked her for her input and what kind of thoughts she had about improving our sex life. She had no answers for that. She claims she is completely satisfied and says that I know what she likes because I bring her to orgasm.:scratchhead: I tried to explain to her that there is more to sex than just an orgasm but she didn't quite seem to understand that concept yet. She also felt that I was trying to pressure her into doing things that she didn't want to do. We talked about that too. I explained to her that I do not want her to do things that are against her will. I just was hoping that she could meet me half way and at least consider trying some different things and if she didn't like it we wouldn't travel that road again. 

We also talked about things that she has done for me in the past but has basically abandoned and not done for a very long time. We talked about how I need to repeatedly convince her to do things over and over again (like giving me a BJ). 

It seemed very constructive for both of us. We each learned things about the other. I have a much better outlook today than I did yesterday. As she pointed out, she has changed somewhat over the years. When we first got married we did not have intercourse until 6 months after we were married. She said it was to painful. She would not give me a BJ at all for first few years of our marriage. We worked through all that and hopefully we can work through this too. :smthumbup:


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yeaaaa. I think you did wonderfully! 

Don't relax and don't let up. Now what? You didn't leave things dangling did you?

If so get together a plan. Discuss it with her dont ask but tell her nicely and in terms of what you both will do. I think you need to take the lead with confidence. Don't let her reluctance discourage you. She sounds like she wants you to lead her and to take responsibility. Don't ask, just do. Be sensitive and read her body language. What ever you do, try to make it about both of you. 

I just wanted you to know that i was very inhibited when i first got married. In fact i thought my husbands man parts were ugly. I didnt tell him until i realized he was beautiful. 

May I suggest the following re oral sex. My husband does not like me to give him a bj with out taking care of me first. We have oral sex sessions where we only give each other oral sex. We get pretty creative. So it does not have to be machanical if intercourse is not part of the mix. 

He brings me to orgasm and then I give him a bj. Believe me, it is much more erotic to give a bj when I am worked up. I think the problem with some women and bj is that they do it cold with no warm up - it is difficult to go from 0 - 10 in a couple of seconds for a woman. 

It may also be frustrating for her if he does not take care of her. Doing mutual oral sex keeps it as a mutually enjoyable loving act for both. It seems more natural. She may also not like the taste of cum, you can suggest other ways for her to finish so she does not stop cold at the end. 

Modeling langerie - I am not an exhibitionist and I can't do this. However, I wear pretty lingerie to bed at night. I do walk around doing stuff and he does keep an eye on me. It is a way for me to do something he likes but not feel like I am modeling. 

I hope these suggestions are useful for you. I am telling you from the standpoint of a woman who started out with a very poor attitude about sex who turned into a more adventurous partner for my HD husband. If I can do it anyone can. 

The one element is my husband. I don't know how he did it but he never seemed frustrated or angry. He never made it seem as if he wanted to force me. However, keeping our sex life exciting was and still is a project that we had equal roles in. Try not to make it seem as if she is resposible for doing things to keeping you sexually satisfied. 

You are both responsible to each other. Maybe this bothers you but you are the one that has the burden of leadership. That may seem unfair but it would take a change in personality change to make her take the lead.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Double Trouble said:


> I learned some things about her which were insightful. She has a strong phobia about someone (one of our children or a relative) walking in on us when we are being intimate. This actually did happen once quite a few years ago. We were home alone together and we were fooling around and she was half naked when my parents dropped by unexpectedly and she had to quickly run upstairs and grab a robe. This obviously really bothered her and still is affecting the way she thinks today.


Sounds like you had a good heart to heart talk... you both opened up & learned new things about the other...wonderful... this part about the kids coming in....bedroom doors aren't locked? 

And her parents, they didn't see anything right ? But yet she struggles with the fear they "could have"....but if the house is secure, doors locked, window blinds down...this should give her some "security" you would think. No harm, no fowl. Calmly assure her of these things, looking at the whole picture. 

Once we were outside on a porch swing (good thing we had a sheet with us)...and the Electic meter-reader man come down the driveway...would have been pretty funny if we ran naked to the house as he was pulling down...so we just hid under that sheet & stayed very still ! We just laughed about it -after he left... we knew he didn't see anything, that is the main thing! 
People fooling around, it is what makes the world go 'round. Not a big deal, just generally gives the one who comes upon you a little chuckle, I would think. It is not like her parents would be shocked you were having an intimate moment. 


So long as you have a lock on the bedroom door...when the kids are home... do a little planning, get the kids involved in something before hand...watching a movie, snacks ,whatever so they won't be needing you for a good hour......can even tell them you & Mommy need some "alone time"... THis is very healthy, and nothing to be ashamed of. That is a "mindset" too that needs taken down. 

Even your attitudes with your kids will be better when all is flowing more emotionally connected with each other, you will come out of that bedroom laughing and  ... Putting yourselves above the kids sometimes.. Taking that time to water & nourish your sex life...making it a real priority....many things will grow! 

We have half dozen, sometimes more teens over... nothing stops us. We don't care how much noise is outside our door, so long as they are "safe" & not killing each other...we have learned to drown most of it out...sometimes put the fan on...and if one comes banging, I tell them to go away. They can wait a little while.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Seems to me that her being afraid her parents might find out she has sex could be a deeper issue. Why would she fear that? She's a grown married woman.


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## Accipiter777 (Jul 22, 2011)

"When we have sex...Vanilla sex as all I get" 

I think alot of men here would be good with that....


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Accipiter777 said:


> "When we have sex...Vanilla sex as all I get"
> 
> I think alot of men here would be good with that....


Not this man. :crazy:


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## DanG (Aug 10, 2011)

My wife of 20 years is somewhat like yours - currently - including the acts of service love language. (I'm all about touch.) She has not always been this way, nor has she consistently been vanilla in the long term. There have been certain events which have caused her to run me over like Dino on Fred Flintstone. It was great, she was great! The sex was very hot!! Why couldnt she be like that at least more often, if not all the time? If I tried to talk to her about it, she, like your wife, would say that everything was fine and claim that she really did not know why things needed to be "better." "Things are fine. I'm not 20 anymore you know." I could never figure out what the triggers were until I read MMSL. Thinking back over the years, I realized that most/all of the very hot events were after other woman were showing interest in me, or when she observed me in a leadership role. So, in my efforts to improve our sex life, I'm keeping those things in mind. Have you noticed/experienced any times when your wife was "hotter" than normal - other than during ovulation? I strongly suggest that you read MMSL - an owners manual for wives. After studying this stuff for about a year now, I have concluded that, in fact, certain woman (especially those of little or tame experience) know how they work. They need to be lead - and sometimes gamed.

Her "catching" you in the shower sounds interesting. Why was she looking in? Maybe she should join you!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

Double Trouble

Sharing


Sounds like she has experience (member of tam) sexual trauma.IT is more emotional for a woman than physical even though that is important. Nonsexual touch will help you to open the feeling of wanting to be touch in her as you do that daily.And heal her touch button. 

Write more later

Thoughts?

Judith


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Well, it's been a little over a week now that I sat my wife down to discuss our situation. Overall I am cautiously optimistic for our future. Our frequency and her willingness has definitely been greater in this past week. She has go down on me without me asking. :smthumbup: She has left the light on without me asking.  She has seemingly been more interested and responsive during our lovemaking. These are all positive things and I feel good about it. I have not pushed the envelope yet and asked her to try something adventures that we have not done before yet. I think we are making some progress. "Baby steps", as she likes to call it. The true test will be this coming Tuesday night. All of my kids will be out of the house overnight so we will be all alone Tuesday evening and all day Wednesday. So her phobia about the kids "catching or hearing" us can't come into play so we will see if we can try something adventurous. Really, really looking forward to her dressing up for me in a sexy outfit.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Last night went pretty well. Called my wife after I was done at the gym and she asked me to stop and get pizza. Came home with a pie and she had candles and wine glasses on the kitchen table. I asked her about the kids and she said that they were still down the shore but not staying overnight and would be home later, which was a little dissapointing. We ate dinner and then I went up for a shower. 

Came out of the shower and into the bedroom to find my wife waiting for me on the bed with candles light around the room. Undressing her revealed that she was wearing a matching bra and pantie set (very sexy... :yay: ). Definetly a step in the right direction but looking for something a little more provocative, maybe add stockings, garter belt and high heels, but I'll take this as turn down the right road. 

Problems that came up during our passionate night were that she was constantly worrying that our kids were going to come home while we were in the act causing anxiety for her and breaking my mood up. This affected my concentration and prolonged my ability to reach orgasm. She climaxed early in the session by rubbing my penis all over her clit until she came. This got me really excited because it was the closest I have come to see her actually masterbate (I don't think she has ever masterbated on her own in her entire life). 

After she had climaxed she started to focus on me but kept telling me to hurry up before the kids got home. This kept bothering me and I never climaxed. She got frustrated and said I was taking to long and then I got frustrated and just gave up myself. I tried not to take it out on her because I know she was really trying, but I did raise my voice and told her to relax and not worry about the kids so much. This got her upset and she changed her tone with me and we almost got into an argument. I stopped everything right there got dressed and apologized to her for getting "loud". 

The kids ended up calling us after that to let us know that they were staying down the shore later that night to play miniature golf. We went to bed later that night and she was reading and I asked her to get dressed again in her "outfit" and her response was "Are you crazy?". I didn't push it and went to sleep myself.:sleeping: 

This morning I hugged her and told her that I loved her and she looked super hot and sexy last night and that I appreciated very much what she did for me last night. I again apologized for getting upse twith her. 

I am not sure what to make of this. I am very happy that she is making an effort. I am very dissapointed and frustrated with the outcome.


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## jmsclayton (Sep 5, 2010)

Doubletrouble

responses below yours

Problems that came up during our passionate night were that she was constantly worrying that our kids were going to come home while we were in the act causing anxiety for her and breaking my mood up. This affected my concentration and prolonged my ability to reach orgasm. She climaxed early in the session by rubbing my penis all over her clit until she came. This got me really excited because it was the closest I have come to see her actually masterbate (I don't think she has ever masterbated on her own in her entire life). \

JUdith; For women who are self conscious about sex and there is an aspect to a woman that she feels vulnerable to being to open and for her sex does that-and it is hard for her to concentrate when there is no lock on the door-To sex there is alot of aspects to it that make it where your conscous of yoru surroundsings for women. That is why she couldnt totally concentrate. Women need to use thought process along with feelings in sex-it is not like men where they can feel it physically-in the end it comes to gether but not all the time throughout. Some women use sexy clothing to help them think about sex to remind them to do it and that is how their mind works when it comes to sex and kids. Some women dont realize that they need to self stimulate to help them selves get there if they cant get there through there mind , emotions etc. That was good for her to do so she could learn about her body. 
She doesnt realize for you it is another world and you can leave the current scene and be with her and only her. 

The key for you would be to remain objective and focus on breathing etc. It is neither both of your faults -things just happen in sex and see it as a learning thing. it is good you apologize to her but dont personalize it to each other. 

doubletrouble said: After she had climaxed she started to focus on me but kept telling me to hurry up before the kids got home. This kept bothering me and I never climaxed.

Judith: See above -the key is for you to let her be the one to focus on her surroundings-try not to focus on her words. She can do a grocery list and have sex -where as you cant-she doesnt understand that you cant do both. The key is to train your mind

She got frustrated and said I was taking to long and then I got frustrated and just gave up myself. I tried not to take it out on her because I know she was really trying, but I did raise my voice and told her to relax and not worry about the kids so much. 

JUdith: The key would be next time to focus on your breathing when you are getting frustrated and slow down-concentrate on what your feeling and let her think about that. 

This got her upset and she changed her tone with me and we almost got into an argument. I stopped everything right there got dressed and apologized to her for getting "loud". 

Judith; For a woman once the mood is gone-it is hard to get back when her emotions are in an upheaval-it takes a while for a woman to work through her emotions to get back into it. 

The kids ended up calling us after that to let us know that they were staying down the shore later that night to play miniature golf. We went to bed later that night and she was reading and I asked her to get dressed again in her "outfit" and her response was "Are you crazy?". I didn't push it and went to sleep myself. 

JUdith: There is no way she could have return mentally to it given your words. Women focus on the words. relationship

Good on not pushinig it. 

Thoughts? 

JUdith


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

*Re: When we have sex...Vanilla sex is all I get*

To Original Post

You described my wife exactly. Missionary only, no foreplay, have to beg her to go down on her, and basically have to schedule the sex twice a week or it wouldn't happen. We are in counseling and I hope it works because I know I cannot continue to put up with this for long. Let me know if your situation works out and what you did to fix it. I'll do the same...if it works out.


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## Ms.Mya (Jul 12, 2012)

Well this is my point of view as a woman... some women see sex as "dirty" and it makes them feel gross and sinful. I know that to be a fact because even I felt that way at one time. She hasn't become comfortable with her sexuality yet. Maybe just give her some time and she might open up and explore different options. You can't throw your bundle pack fantasy moves all in one night.. that's not gonna happen. Maybe she will try one new thing here or there. She needs to loosen up and you need to find out the reason why she's so tense about sex.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

Ms.Mya said:


> Well this is my point of view as a woman... some women see sex as "dirty" and it makes them feel gross and sinful. I know that to be a fact because even I felt that way at one time. She hasn't become comfortable with her sexuality yet. Maybe just give her some time and she might open up and explore different options. You can't throw your bundle pack fantasy moves all in one night.. that's not gonna happen. Maybe she will try one new thing here or there.


Which would be fine - Catherine 602 was always at great pains to express how gradual her "awakening" was. But it needs to show some measurable progress compared to the husband's lifetime. Geology changes things, on a vast scale, but to a human observer, you can't see it happening...



> She needs to loosen up and you need to find out the reason why she's so tense about sex.


If she's that uncomfortable, and sees it as gross and sinful, what are the chances she will loosen up? She believes it's something she SHOULDN'T loosen up for! As for him finding out, do you seriously think she'll tell him if she's that uptight about it?


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## Ms.Mya (Jul 12, 2012)

If she's that uncomfortable, and sees it as gross and sinful, what are the chances she will loosen up? She believes it's something she SHOULDN'T loosen up for! As for him finding out, do you seriously think she'll tell him if she's that uptight about it?[/QUOTE]

I don't know if she ever will.. only time will tell. With some women it takes time and maturity to let loose. That's just my perspective on how I believed about sex (when I was younger). Now.. I'm a little different. Men are just horny all the time.. they don't change much.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Ms.Mya said:


> If she's that uncomfortable, and sees it as gross and sinful, what are the chances she will loosen up? She believes it's something she SHOULDN'T loosen up for! As for him finding out, do you seriously think she'll tell him if she's that uptight about it?


[/QUOTE]=I don't know if she ever will.. only time will tell. With some women it takes time and maturity to let loose. That's just my perspective on how I believed about sex (when I was younger). Now.. I'm a little different. Men are just horny all the time.. they don't change much.[/QUOTE]

I get the impression that you think we are a younger couple. We have been married 27 years and I am 52 and my wife is 50. I have been SLOWLY working with her during this entire time and as you can see I haven't progressed that far. Now can you see were my frustration comes into play? :banghead:

I think that I have been beyond patient with her. I just hope she realizes, after our talk, how much this really means to me. 

Generalizing us men as "being horny all the time" i think is a little unfair. Although there is certainly a lot of truth to it and it probably applies to me 80% of the time, there is more to us men than just being a horny little devil. That's a little off topic of this thread but I just wanted to point that out.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I've been on a steady 'vanilla' diet since the honeymoon. But it hasn't become an issue at all and I am comfortable with that. My problem is the infrequency of said vanilla sex.


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## Ms.Mya (Jul 12, 2012)

=I don't know if she ever will.. only time will tell. With some women it takes time and maturity to let loose. That's just my perspective on how I believed about sex (when I was younger). Now.. I'm a little different. Men are just horny all the time.. they don't change much.[/QUOTE]

I get the impression that you think we are a younger couple. We have been married 27 years and I am 52 and my wife is 50. I have been SLOWLY working with her during this entire time and as you can see I haven't progressed that far. Now can you see were my frustration comes into play? :banghead:

I think that I have been beyond patient with her. I just hope she realizes, after our talk, how much this really means to me. 

Generalizing us men as "being horny all the time" i think is a little unfair. Although there is certainly a lot of truth to it and it probably applies to me 80% of the time, there is more to us men than just being a horny little devil. That's a little off topic of this thread but I just wanted to point that out.[/QUOTE]


Well, what I meant with the horny all the time comment was that you guys want it, will have it, ready at any time... I guess I should have clarified that a little better. Yes, I guess I did have that impression that you were a younger couple.. I'm sorry. You have been more than patient with her. I don't know why she's so afraid to explore beyond vanilla sex... maybe she's just content with sex with you now. So take that as a complement!! However, she's not paying attention to your needs either. That must be frustrating.

I'm gonna catch hell for saying this.... get her to loosen up.. polish off a bottle of wine. Get her mood going.. then introduce something a little different. Mention it the next morning and ask her if she enjoyed it...?? I hate to say it, but worked for me.


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## Jimbob82 (Jun 29, 2012)

For the people who 'only' have sex, twice a week, please don't knock it, as I am lucky if I get it once in 11-12 days, and that is as good as it gets. This includes NO handjobs or BJs as relief either. For a 30yr old guy with a mega sex drive, this is agonising..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dasani (Jul 13, 2012)

Double Trouble said:


> Last night went pretty well.


I realize you patience is wearing thin. However, I kinda feel like you ruined what could have been a very exciting night for you. You have got to stop making it about you! It's all about her! After her orgasm, it sounds like she didn't really want to continue (but was willing to help you orgasm). I think the night would have been much better, if when she told you to "hurry", you simply said, it's ok, I just wanted to please you. You could always masturbate later.

...again, i know you are frustrated, and I know that you probably feel like you are already paying extra attention to her needs (going down on her). But you have to make your sex life about her....not you. No offense, but from what I hear, everything you are saying is what she is not willing to do for YOU. You have got to stop pressuring her to do things "FOR YOU". Make it about her! If you want her to wear sexy clothes for example....you should tell her that you feel that she would really enjoy how it will make her feel. However, I'm afraid it won't work now because she has the mentality that everything is about you....so no matter what you say or how you say it, she is going to think is a ploy to get what YOU want. Even the house work you mentioned...she likely feels that you are only doing it for sex. 

Look man, she obviously loves you. Her attempt to give you want you want was probably out of her comfort zone...but she did it...for you! But what I hear you say is...the outfit wasn't enough for you, her worring about the kids broke YOUR concentration and YOUR ability to orgasm, and after a wonderful night, you ask her to do it again...because what she had done for you wasnt enough. 

WOW! You may not be, but from what I hear, you sound very selfish! And just a hunch, but I would be willing to bet that your wife feels that you are too! 

MAKE IT ABOUT HER!!....and your fantasies will have a much greater chance of being realized than pressuring her to do things she don't want to do.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Ms.Mya said:


> =I'm gonna catch hell for saying this.... get her to loosen up.. polish off a bottle of wine. Get her mood going.. then introduce something a little different. Mention it the next morning and ask her if she enjoyed it...?? I hate to say it, but worked for me.


She is not really a drinker. Once in a blue moon she'll have a couple glasses of wine, but not very often at all. I'll keep it in mind though for the next time she does decide to ge a little tipsie.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

dasani said:


> WOW! You may not be, but from what I hear, you sound very selfish! And just a hunch, but I would be willing to bet that your wife feels that you are too!


No offense, but you are being rather judgmental for not knowing our entire story. You may think that I am being selfish and you have the right to your opinion but I know that I have made every effort to give her everything she has ever wanted or asked for physically and mentally in our marriage. I have supplied financial support, emotional support and comfort. I have asked her repeatedly what she would enjoy sexually. She gives me little or no input. She is just LD and I am HD. Bad match as a lot of people who post on this site are aware. 

Marriage is about give and take. I do everything I can to meet her needs. She likes attention and affection. I give her back rubs and full body messages. I hug and kiss her as much as I can. When we are out I walk with her hand in hand. I can continue with what I do for her and my family but I don't think that is necessary. 

Most men have a primary need for sex. Women not so much. I get that. But if your spouse is HD and his/her #1 need is not being met then that will eventually lead to problems. Arguments, anxiety, and resentment. This could result with the HD partner seeking to have his/her needs satisfied by someone else. I am not saying that I am looking to get involved in an affair. I love my wife dearly and I cherish the life we have built together. But to me our sex life is critical for me to be happy. If that is selfish then I am guilty. :rant:


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## dasani (Jul 13, 2012)

Double Trouble said:


> No offense, but you are being rather judgmental for not knowing our entire story.


I'm truly sorry I came across that way. I guess, I should have explained why I am so passionate about this subject. My wife and I have been married for 16 years. I stood in your shoes about a year ago. She seemed to have very little interest in sex...but to make it even worse, she had very little interest in showing any kind of affection. I did everything I knew to do to make sure she understood how I felt...talk after talk, e-mail, letters, etc. All in an attempt to let lay all my feeling on the line so I could feel confident that I had done all I could do before I left her. After years of frustration I finally lost hope. I actually did decide that I would start looking for someone else to fill the void and was successful....however, I never slept with her, we only talked...and only long enough for me to realize that sex wasn't worth me throwing away my marriage. I decided to live my life without any expectations of sex. I knew we would still make love occassionally, but I wasn't going to be expecting anything from her. 

What happened then was the biggest surprise of all. Once I stopped pressuring her for sex and basically just went about my day without expecting anything from her (sexually or emotionally).......everything changed. She started WANTING what was now missing from our relationship. She has become more open sexually, often suggesting positions and even telling me what she wants me to do to her (a far cry from our past). I've never been much of a costume guy, but I love it when she wears a skirt with no panties, she has done this a few times in our past after constant pressure from me to do so...however, since I have stopped asking for it...she has actually done it a few times (without me asking) and generously provided me with some nice view while we were in public. As for the actual sex...when we make love, I don't ask for anything and I do everything I can to HELP her enjoy the experience. If she won't verbally say it, most of the time I can just kinda sense what she is in the mood for. Slow passionate love makeing, maybe a little rough, or maybe she is wanting to be a little kinky. Regardless, it's always about her. 

And I realize now, that my constant pressure for sex and for her to fullfill MY desires was actually pushing her away....inside and out of the bedroom. We have always had a great relationship, but for the majority of our time together, sex has always been an issue. We have been doing soo much better since I stopped pressuring her and it also is soo much better when she "surprises" me with the things I used to beg her for...it simply has a lot more meaning when she does little things without being asked. 

She does things now that she never agreed to do when I pressured her. And the great thing is, she loves doing it...not because it turns her on (although it may), but because she is doing it for me. 

**She actually told me that when I was pressuring her to do all sorts of things she wasn't comfortable with...it kinda made her feel like a *****! Of course, I never imagined that I would make her feel that way. 

I think you see where I'm coming from. Again, I didn't mean any disrespect!!


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## dasani (Jul 13, 2012)

Think of it this way, her lack of interest in sex and her not being willing to try new things is driving you crazy! ....what if the tables were turned....don't you think she would start doing all she could to "re-connect". 

Finding the balance here (I think) is the key. A balace where you both "desire" more of each other. 

One more thing....you can still "suggest" new things. But wording is important. Instead of saying "will you...", try simply saying "would you like to....". I have found this to have a much better affect with my wife.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

Dasani....Thanks for you input. I can relate better now. In retrospect there may have been a little bit of shelfishness behind my wants and desires. It took me a few days for this to sink in but after long and hard thought about it, shelfishness was a part of "my problem" and I have to thank you for pointing that out. I have already started to address this in our relationship. The other night (Saturday night) I gave her a complete body message for about an hour. I could tell she really enjoyed it. I finished her off by going down on her and bringing her to orgasm not once but twice. I wanted to bring her to climax a 3rd time but she kept insisting that she was "done" and couldn't orgasm again. She kept asking if I wanted to orgasm but I told her that I was fine and tonight was all about her. She kept saying that she was very confused and couldn't understand were I was coming from. I assured her that I was fine and just wanted to please her that night. We fell asleep in each others arms. 

The next night we went to bed and she pretty much attacked me. :smthumbup: It was great hot sex! :FIREdevil: She got on top of me and teased and fondled me till I couldn't take it any more than she road me like I was a wild stallion! 

I have to admit that this was pretty incredable and probubly would not have happened if it were not for your previous post. Thanks again and I will certainly take your resent advice and try to figure out how I can use it and make it apply to our relationship.


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## dasani (Jul 13, 2012)

Double Trouble said:


> Dasani....Thanks for you input. QUOTE]
> 
> That's great! I know every marrage is different but I do hope my experience can provide some insight.
> 
> Congradulations! And keep us updated!


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## SpiceGuides (Jun 26, 2012)

I've been following this post for some time now, and I just want to say how incredible the story and advice has been so far. What a great community. 

Double: I hope you and your partner find your path to intimate fulfillment.


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## Double Trouble (Jun 5, 2012)

So far so good. I have been very attentive to her when we go to bed. I have been giving her back rubs and full body messages. This has led to some pretty stimulating sex. I even bought her a vibrator that I used on hr the other night and she had one of the most intense orgasms that I have witnessed since we have been together. She has reciprocated and has worn some matching bra and panty sets for me. She has also tied me up and blindfolded me and brought me to a prety intense orgasm. Hopefully things will continue to role for us. We are going away for a week on vacation this weekend so we'll see how that plays out.


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