# Later in Life Divorce



## KrisAmiss

My parents were married 51 years. Not a perfect couple, they didn't always seem to like each other. But they stuck together and were there in some form for each other and for us, even amid disappointment. Dad had anger issues, some Asperger traits. Mom was a doormat, passive. They gave me plenty of attributes to try to avoid or correct. Yet in the end, he got sick and she was his rock and he died a married man among his family. I took care of him some but the burden wasn't all on me. They had each other and all that shared history. That takes a lot of patience.

Here I am, 26 years in a marriage that hit hard points 20 years then 15 years then 5 years then 3 years ago and now - seemingly getting worse and worse. Is that just life or do I truly get to/have to start over? I wonder how it is to be a kid of divorced parents - and I'm sure there are many stories - but I do rather appreciate that my parents didn't split even though it wasn't always great. Even when not perfect, they meant well. Isn't that love?

I do feel like I've progressed more than my parents by actively addressing the problems. Divorced kids are more likely to become divorced parents, so the opposite must be true. Do I stay in cuz that seems normal to me? I'm totally down with dating and all that yummy stuff, but I'm a mom... still thinking about my kids -- one of my best attributes and my worst downfalls.

I guess the question is, how much happier will I be? Is that worth sacrificing the hope and happiness of my kids? They'll all be "adults" in 3 years so it's not so much inconvenience growing up but for the rest of their lives. I have my "ticket" to leave -- I realize I've been treated like crap. But I find myself thinking, we know the problems now. Can we fix it?


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## aine

I think you need to be more specific about the problems that need to be fixed.

Many people (particularly women) face this uncertainty at this stage in the marriage, the kids are almost grown, she has given off herself to all and sundry and looks at the man (who for the most part probably wasn't a great H or father) and thinks, is this what i get to retire with, no thanks. I suspect you are at this stage.

No-one can answer this but you and him. Have you talked to him about the issues? Are you premenopausal, menopausal (can play havoc with your emotions and your views of your marriage tbh)?
You H must get a chance to make things right, at least know about them?


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## bikermehound

Let me no more seems like we r missing info

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## oldshirt

I too am a child of life-long marriage. My parents were married 64 years, spent their final days together in the same room at the nursing home and died 2 months apart from each other. 

So I had a wonderful childhood and the perfect home life right? In some ways yes, in other ways absolutely not. 

There was no actual abuse or drunkenness or anything like that. But there were some terrible fights, periods of bitterness and contempt, some infidelity and lots and lots of bickering. I hated the bickering right up to the end. 

Over the years I have come to the opinion that divorce does not harm children in the slightest. And that sometimes "till Death Do Us Part" does. 

I know that both of those are radical statements, but hear me out. Divorce doesn't in and of itself does not harm children and lack of divorce does not help them. 

Two sane, sober, loving, supportive parents that are there for them and involved and invested in their lives and well being is what helps children. 

And things like abuse, addiction/alcoholism, chronic hostility, neglect, abandonment, gross financial irresponsibility etc does. 

The parents marital status doesn't really matter all that much. 

Sure it would be great if those two loving, supportive parents also loved each other and got along well under one roof. But it's not a deal breaker if they are in two separate dwellings. 

I think remaining married and subjecting children to chronic hostility, abuse, addiction/alcoholism, chronic adultery etc is more harmful than getting away from those things. I think divorcing and removing children from those environments is the healthy choice. 

I think that also applies to failing marriage later in life as well. If there is abuse, addiction, adultery, abandonment, gross financial irresponsibility etc, you are better off on your own. 

What I am getting at is I don't think people that modeled 'Til Death Do Us Part' were always modeling appropriate behavior. There are some things that they SHOULD model getting away from and leaving in the rearview mirror.


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## Diana7

Many people think that the grass will always be greener but it's often isn't. Except for serious abuse of the spouse or children or adultery, I would not end a marriage.


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## Brokenhearted_MD

My parents were married for 44 years. Dad was a devoted man until he succumbed to cancer. Mom was a tireless caregiver. They had their disagreements but never major fights.

Only thing I can imagine leaving someone for is abusive relationships. That can be a danger to yourself or children.

I am probably facing a separation myself soon. It seems we have some irreconcilable differences that built up to the day of our 20 year anniversary.

She's a great woman. She has guided my daughter well. But she feels she is being held back in her career by living where we are, and I have no viable alternative for my line of work. 

I'd like to know more about what problems you're having. Many issues have a viable solution. But abuse is not one of them. 




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## KrisAmiss

My recent saga is on a thread Virtual Affairs, BSDM Fantasies... But DH & I lost our emotional connection long ago. We've been decent roommates but both agree we don't have what we want couplewise. Can we get a good relationship back?

I guess the question I was asking was, what does a good marriage look like and will the pain of divorce and the pain for my kids be worth my extra happiness? All relationships have problems and it seems you're just dragging more people into it when you divorce and re-relation. Will my new guy's kids be happy to see me coming? Even though I'm awesome, they may not see me that way. My kids might not be that happy to see me happy with another man. That's the thing - I don't know what divorced families look like or feel like. It just seems it'd be more unstable. I haven't been happy but part of that is my fault for accepting it. Is it unrealistic to think that this person who once made me exceedingly happy could make me happy once again? He loves my kids. I think he's game to try (though he's been volatile). He said, just because you're standing on the bridge looking to jump doesn't mean you're actually going to do it. I guess that's one way of saying this might work.

Ideally people would stay together. I read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay but I don't think you can just ignore your kids in the equation. A divorced pair went to court today cuz the wife wants to move. Dad asked the 15 yo what he wanted and he said - I want things to go back to the way they were.

That's a child's heart. :-( I have no question here. I only doubt myself when I think of my doormat mom. The things our parents do affect us so much. Sigh. Toughest job ever.


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## 3Xnocharm

You can only get a good marriage back if you BOTH are committed to making it work. Your husband does not seem to be. Your kids are a bit older, so you may be surprised by their view of your marriage, or their reaction should you announce divorce. I can tell you that I spent most of my childhood wishing my mom would divorce my dad, I watched him treat her like utter crap all those years. She finally filed when I was 14, and my sister and I were both very relieved and very happy. 

Stop comparing your marriage to your parents' marriage. No two marriages are the same, and you honestly have no idea what went on between them behind closed doors. They came from a time were divorce was practically taboo, and it didnt matter if you were happy or not, you sucked it up and stayed. What kind of life is that??


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## KrisAmiss

3Xnocharm said:


> You can only get a good marriage back if you BOTH are committed to making it work. Your husband does not seem to be. Your kids are a bit older, so you may be surprised by their view of your marriage, or their reaction should you announce divorce. I can tell you that I spent most of my childhood wishing my mom would divorce my dad, I watched him treat her like utter crap all those years. She finally filed when I was 14, and my sister and I were both very relieved and very happy.
> 
> Stop comparing your marriage to your parents' marriage. No two marriages are the same, and you honestly have no idea what went on between them behind closed doors. They came from a time were divorce was practically taboo, and it didnt matter if you were happy or not, you sucked it up and stayed. What kind of life is that??


You're right. I do hear my childhood best friend saying, I'd only divorce if it were REALLY BAD. She had a horrible time after her parents split and alot of that included being excluded as the kid of divorcees, living in a trailer park, etc. It's much more main stream now. Worse things have happened.

I have had the thought that maybe the fact that divorces are so prevalent now is not necessarily bad -- but LIBERATION. 

I also think that the first great six years of marriage sure has gotten alot of mileage. Kids sunk us, yet have kept us afloat.

I promise, I won't ponder this forever. But marriage does deserve some deep thought.


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## Openminded

I thought my marriage would be forever. I got very close to my 50th anniversary but I didn't quite make it. Long marriages aren't necessarily healthy marriages. Sometimes they're just long. And sometimes they really do need to be brought to an end no matter how much we wish we didn't have to.


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## oldshirt

KrisAmiss said:


> I have had the thought that maybe the fact that divorces are so prevalent now is not necessarily bad -- but LIBERATION.
> 
> .


My theory is that more people are getting divorced today simply because they can. 

People have more options now. 

the rich and powerful have always gotten divorces because they were the ones that could afford it. 

Today the common man and woman can get a divorce and while it may cost them some money in court costs and lawyers fees and possibly some child support etc, very few people are truly financially devastated by divorce like people in our grandparent's era. 

Today most couples both work, both have educations and both have the ways and means to separate and continue living an at least livable lifestyle. 

Yes they may need to move into a smaller rental for awhile and may not buy a new car for a few more years. But not that many end up in the poverty line following divorce any more. 

In our grandparents age, divorce usually financially crippled both parties. In an age where few women had professional, self-supporting careers, it was quite common that the husband would pay alimony for many years if not life. Child custody was almost always awarded to the mother and the father had to pay child support and have every other weekend visits. There for the husband paid alimony and child support leaving him with a fraction of his income, and the wife even receiving alimony and CS still lived below the lifestyle of married life. Both were often quite negatively impacted. 

Add to that the severe social stigma and prejudice against divorce and that all added up to divorce often being a very devastating force to both parties. 

Because of that, divorce in our grandparents era was often reserved for the most severe cases of abuse, addiction, abandonment and completely unrepentant adultery. 

The children that were impacted by those divorces were damaged and had issues, but most of those issues and damage were likely due to the environment of hostility, resentment and bitterness due to the extreme dysfunction that lead to the divorce in the first place. 

The stereotype of the successful businessman leaving his middle aged wife for his young secretary came to be a stereotype because those were the only guys that could afford it. 

The common man and woman often just opted to grit their teeth and suffer through it. 

So yes, I do not believe that the higher divorce rates of today are any kind of moral or ethical failing or degradation of society. It is that the common man and woman are afforded more options today and are not socially and financially required to remain yoked to the person that may be mistreated them or that they otherwise do not want to be with any more.


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## WilliamM

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/consid...-virtual-affairs-bdsm-fantasies-26-years.html

Mary and I had two major rough patches. The first was a raging fire. The second, just weird.

But only the two issues.

And we did solve them. In 1978 when she screwed up she couldn't know if we would make it or not, but she hung in. I could say she was the one who was at fault, but I was so cruel as the months went by that it was all on me before too long. She was helpless to make it right because of her problems. It was such a mess. 18 months of pure hell.

Mary says she knew it would work out, just somehow knew it would. I sure didn't. But for some reason I kept coming home. Somehow I knew, even with all her lies, she wanted to make things right. Perhaps I could say it was a gut feeling. 

Who knows when is the right time to say enough. Only you. 

We do wish you the very best, whatever you decide.


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## Ynot

OP, thank you for your thoughtful post. I think I may have been the H on the other side of the marriage you spoke of in your original post. Your post made me try to think of how my ex may have thought leading up to our divorce. My only real regret is that she never came to me and talked to me about it. Instead she just made a decision to leave and that was that. The only insight I can give you is to talk to your husband. Don't demand, don't threaten, but be open and frank and have this discussion. 

I fought against the idea of divorce in my mind when it first happened. I couldn't accept it. I realize now just how unhappy I had been. I realized then that I was very unhappy. I think, for me, the pain was not in the divorce, it was in the fact that she had so little respect for me as a person. So respect this other person in your life, the man with whom you have created a life time of memories, had children with, spent 26+ years of your life with and talk to him. Honor your years of marriage by doing things right, rather than just blind siding the guy, which is how I felt.


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## lisacolorado

KrisAmiss said:


> I guess the question is, how much happier will I be? Is that worth sacrificing the hope and happiness of my kids? They'll all be "adults" in 3 years so it's not so much inconvenience growing up but for the rest of their lives. I have my "ticket" to leave -- I realize I've been treated like crap. But I find myself thinking, we know the problems now. Can we fix it?


"How much happier will I be?" That's a good question! We are generally at a set level of happiness no matter the circumstances. That's why I"m being careful in my long-term marriage. I can so imagine sitting in my new place, going, Wow, it wasn't so bad and I miss it.


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## Diana7

Ynot said:


> OP, thank you for your thoughtful post. I think I may have been the H on the other side of the marriage you spoke of in your original post. Your post made me try to think of how my ex may have thought leading up to our divorce. My only real regret is that she never came to me and talked to me about it. Instead she just made a decision to leave and that was that. The only insight I can give you is to talk to your husband. Don't demand, don't threaten, but be open and frank and have this discussion.
> 
> I fought against the idea of divorce in my mind when it first happened. I couldn't accept it. I realize now just how unhappy I had been. I realized then that I was very unhappy. I think, for me, the pain was not in the divorce, it was in the fact that she had so little respect for me as a person. So respect this other person in your life, the man with whom you have created a life time of memories, had children with, spent 26+ years of your life with and talk to him. Honor your years of marriage by doing things right, rather than just blind siding the guy, which is how I felt.


I can totally understand what you mean, Many years ago I went on a divorce recovery workshop. One of the men there was in his 50's and his wife of about 30 years had recently just upped and left out of the blue. She had given him no warning, no chance to work on anything, and you could see the total shock and trauma in his eyes. I thought then, how very cruel that women was to do that. 
If one person is so unhappy that they want to leave, then why didn't they say anything long ago? Why not suggest marriage counseling? Why not actually tell their spouse what is wrong and work on it together?


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## aine

Diana7 said:


> I can totally understand what you mean, Many years ago I went on a divorce recovery workshop. One of the men there was in his 50's and his wife of about 30 years had recently just upped and left out of the blue. She had given him no warning, no chance to work on anything, and you could see the total shock and trauma in his eyes. I thought then, how very cruel that women was to do that.
> If one person is so unhappy that they want to leave, then why didn't they say anything long ago? Why not suggest marriage counseling? Why not actually tell their spouse what is wrong and work on it together?


I get what you are saying but there are many spouses who have told the other spouse over and over again that their needs are not being met, they want more time together, they want to go on holidays etc, yet the spouse hears it as nagging and just ignores it and shuts down. After years of that the unheard spouse hardens their heart and makes a vow to leave and that is exactly what they do. I do not believe that people are blindsided when this happens, they most probably chose not to listen because at the time it suited them.


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## KrisAmiss

Ynot said:


> I think, for me, the pain was not in the divorce, it was in the fact that she had so little respect for me as a person.


This certainly is how I've felt. My H said it will be "the saddest thing" if we divorce. I say the saddest thing has already happened, that it's come to this.

Going to The Happiest Place on Earth tomorrow, the whole family. We'll see if it's catching.


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## lisacolorado

oldshirt said:


> I too am a child of life-long marriage. ... I don't think people that modeled 'Til Death Do Us Part' were always modeling appropriate behavior. There are some things that they SHOULD model getting away from and leaving in the rearview mirror.


Preach! My parents and both of my grandparents had miserable, resentful lives in their senior years, staying because of fear. I am now looking at my husband's retirement and wonder if the generic love that we have could be best served if I went off and lived where I want to instead of here at the same table hearing the same chewing. Just started talking with my h. about that.


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## Ynot

Diana7 said:


> I can totally understand what you mean, Many years ago I went on a divorce recovery workshop. One of the men there was in his 50's and his wife of about 30 years had recently just upped and left out of the blue. She had given him no warning, no chance to work on anything, and you could see the total shock and trauma in his eyes. I thought then, how very cruel that women was to do that.
> If one person is so unhappy that they want to leave, then why didn't they say anything long ago? Why not suggest marriage counseling? Why not actually tell their spouse what is wrong and work on it together?


Damned if I know. That is why I suggest she have this talk with her husband. The only thing we owe another human being is our honesty. Had I known that my wife was so unhappy that she was planning on leaving I may have made a lot of different decisions along the way. Nobody deserves to be lied to, mislead or used.


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## Diana7

aine said:


> I get what you are saying but there are many spouses who have told the other spouse over and over again that their needs are not being met, they want more time together, they want to go on holidays etc, yet the spouse hears it as nagging and just ignores it and shuts down. After years of that the unheard spouse hardens their heart and makes a vow to leave and that is exactly what they do. I do not believe that people are blindsided when this happens, they most probably chose not to listen because at the time it suited them.


I am sure that is true in some cases but in others as with the man I mentioned it wasn't the case. He had no idea she was unhappy.


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## Ynot

aine said:


> I get what you are saying but there are many spouses who have told the other spouse over and over again that their needs are not being met, they want more time together, they want to go on holidays etc, yet the spouse hears it as nagging and just ignores it and shuts down. After years of that the unheard spouse hardens their heart and makes a vow to leave and that is exactly what they do. I do not believe that people are blindsided when this happens, they most probably chose not to listen because at the time it suited them.


Of course, it always the fault of the one left behind. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps the "messages" were never received because the "messenger" may have been sending mixed signals? Such as threatening to leave in the heat of an argument, then making up and having sex? Or perhaps threatening to divorce but then gladly accepting or rather taking whatever the spouse was offering and just going about day to day life as if nothing happened? Which "message" was meant to be received? The "I am out of here" one or was it the "I didn't really mean that, I was just angry" or "that was just an argument, let's enjoy life" one? Which one?
I get so tired of hearing about how she told him but he didn't listen, so it is all his fault. Never any discussion about the inability to actually communicate, since apparently it is totally incumbent upon the man to just understand. And of course there is never any discussion about how his needs weren't being met. It is all about her. I am always amazed at how often women default to the women are the better communicator model and can't seem to understand that successful communication involves a two way dialogue.


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## KrisAmiss

Help. I'm still here in Limbo Land. Still trying but getting irritated.

We had a good week when he tried. Then one slip and he said, divorce. but soon enough, back to trying.

We just had a crap weekend. He's so freaked about his job and doing other things. I am nowhere near a priority. He seems to have little interest in me or this wonky marriage. He claims it's just a bad week. Yet he admits he's not that interested. Sorry.

He wants to stay in our comfortable lifestyle, with the kids. I guess he's happy with how things were, roommates, whatever. He doesn't want to think too much about it. His head hurts. He's tired.

He gets sad when I say I actually want a relationship and I'm not just going to go back to the obviously broken one we were having. So I say, do you want out or do you need 2 more weeks? The latter...

He's putting nothing into this minus the week he tried to be engaged with me. He's reading nothing, therapy not, or thinking as far as I can tell. I'm quite sure he loses way more than I do in divorce, as he'll have to keep up support which is his forte and I'll stay with the kids.

He says he's depressed. He certainly hasn't been as "together" as normal.

He travels. So I said, let's not talk this week, text/email important stuff. I think, maybe I should go somewhere next weekend to give him a taste of divorce. But then this all seems like manipulation. If he's so uninterested, just call it a day/a life/a marriage.

What to do for the guy who seems to be slowly coming around? He has many characteristics I'd look for in a new guy, seems silly not to recycle this one.


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## 3Xnocharm

What about any of this makes you believe he is "slowly coming around?" So you gave him another two weeks. Then what? Another two? Then another? He is not doing therapy, not reading any of the books, and has TOLD you he just isn't that interested in making this better. What more do you need?? You have to stop listening to what he tells you, and watch his ACTIONS. Actions are what matter, not words. And his actions indicated that a real relationship is not something he sees worth his effort but he likes your comfortable lifestyle. Stop leaving it up to him.


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## Openminded

He doesn't want a divorce but neither does he want to do the work necessary to have a good marriage. 

He will drag this out forever if he's allowed to.


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## joewatt

"Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you." Somebody had that as their signature in this group. I'm 76 and my wife is 65 and I think she stopped caring about me years ago. Although I certainly have my problems which I imagine are behind her indifference, I've never been unfaithful or abusive. ALL I WANT IS TO LIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO LOVE ME. My sons do, but they are away and have lives of their own. I have nephews and nieces in two other parts of the country who I believe would welcome me with open arms. I'm actually contemplating leaving - maybe a separate maintenance arrangement. This is the first time I've feached out on line -


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## KevinZX

Everybody who leaves must think like this to some extent, i think it is natural to feel the throes of doubt, i mean that to not feel anything after decades of being together is unnatural. What are you really asking here, Do i have permission to leave?, of course you do, Do i stay and martyr myself for everybody's else's sake, i don't think that is the answer, leaving if you are so unhappy must be the best route to take, nobody is as important to you as you should be, it is inconceivable to think that one day when your kids are gone and your alone with him and your very unhappy that you would look back on this time you have now to start again, to live a life you want, to experience real love and be wanted by someone as much as you want him, then your answer must be go get a new life and your kids will not be hard on you for following your instincts that your marriage is over. Just this afternoon i had a long call from a friend, we spoke at length regarding the different kinds of people and how they make decisions, some go all out for themselves, throwing everything in the wood chipper, others tend to be more modest and self sacrificing, these are the people who get hurt, take the strain, get no thanks, it is time for some self assertion, get moving in the direction you want and need to be happy.

Love and Peace always

KevinZX


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## KrisAmiss

joewatt said:


> "Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you." Somebody had that as their signature in this group. I'm 76 and my wife is 65 and I think she stopped caring about me years ago. ALL I WANT IS TO LIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO LOVE ME.


So sad. I'm 50 and feeling old; there you are at 76. It's never too late to make a stand. What's confusing is setting aside the idea that marriage is for life. My DH is depressed as far as I can tell, so do I stay with this? Alot of what I was thinking was not only saving the marriage but helping him. My compassion goes too far. So I was so sad, even as late as last weekend, just thinking that it's come to this... So I decide, you don't have to do this any more. You tried and it didn't work and that's okay. It's not the best time to leave with my kids' situations but I can keep my eyes open to new possibilties. Then, as though he has read my mind that I've decided to leave him, he suddenly is sympathetic to me, saying what an ******* he's been. smh. I don't even want to think about it.

We all deserve love. So many people in the world. Why is it so hard to find?


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## JustAFamilyMan

KrisAmiss said:


> So sad. I'm 50 and feeling old; there you are at 76. It's never too late to make a stand. What's confusing is setting aside the idea that marriage is for life. My DH is depressed as far as I can tell, so do I stay with this? Alot of what I was thinking was not only saving the marriage but helping him. My compassion goes too far. So I was so sad, even as late as last weekend, just thinking that it's come to this... So I decide, you don't have to do this any more. You tried and it didn't work and that's okay. It's not the best time to leave with my kids' situations but I can keep my eyes open to new possibilties. Then, as though he has read my mind that I've decided to leave him, he suddenly is sympathetic to me, saying what an ******* he's been. smh. I don't even want to think about it.
> 
> We all deserve love. So many people in the world. Why is it so hard to find?


It's hard. No catastrophic event to force things to a head, to give you some balm to apply to your doubt and even guilt. Sitting around wondering if it's really so bad as it seems, if this is just how life progresses, if there is really anything out there worth causing so much change and pain. All the while the clock ticks, life slips away, and you are having this same conversation with yourself a decade later with no greater certainty than you had a decade before. All you know is, the last decade has not made you happy in every way. The kids? Of course they brought happiness. There were and are happy times with the spouse as well... but here you are anyway. Here because as wonderful as those things are, something deep down in your bones craves something more from life that is just for you. Something you've maybe had before, but know you want again, and know that even the hope of that leaves you happier than the actual relationship you've had for so many years.

Or... maybe that's just me. Either way, even if none of the above applies to you, you're not alone in this confusion. Let's hope we all figure it out in a way that leaves us and those that matter to us most happier in the end.


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## KrisAmiss

KevinZX said:


> others tend to be more modest and self sacrificing, these are the people who get hurt, take the strain, get no thanks, it is time for some self assertion, get moving in the direction you want and need to be happy.


I've read my journal and it's sad to see how I accept mediocre results, like he's not All In but he's improved... He's not making a great effort but it's better than it was...

It seems like when i'm in it, it doesn't even occur to me that I'm so wimpy, that I don't seem to care about myself. I'm so used to these people feeding off of me, it doesn't bother me at all. And it's like I'm such a silent contributor, the DH doesn't appreciate any of it.

I'm shifting gears. I'm starting not to care. In some ways i see this as a good path to take, getting settled within myself rather than flying off the handle. Sigh. I can move on. Oh, the things I've put up with...


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## Diana7

joewatt said:


> "Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you." Somebody had that as their signature in this group. I'm 76 and my wife is 65 and I think she stopped caring about me years ago. Although I certainly have my problems which I imagine are behind her indifference, I've never been unfaithful or abusive. ALL I WANT IS TO LIVE WITH PEOPLE WHO LOVE ME. My sons do, but they are away and have lives of their own. I have nephews and nieces in two other parts of the country who I believe would welcome me with open arms. I'm actually contemplating leaving - maybe a separate maintenance arrangement. This is the first time I've feached out on line -


What have you done to improve yourself and the marriage?


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## aine

KrisAmiss said:


> Help. I'm still here in Limbo Land. Still trying but getting irritated.
> 
> We had a good week when he tried. Then one slip and he said, divorce. but soon enough, back to trying.
> 
> We just had a crap weekend. He's so freaked about his job and doing other things. I am nowhere near a priority. He seems to have little interest in me or this wonky marriage. He claims it's just a bad week. Yet he admits he's not that interested. Sorry.
> 
> He wants to stay in our comfortable lifestyle, with the kids. I guess he's happy with how things were, roommates, whatever. He doesn't want to think too much about it. His head hurts. He's tired.
> 
> He gets sad when I say I actually want a relationship and I'm not just going to go back to the obviously broken one we were having. So I say, do you want out or do you need 2 more weeks? The latter...
> 
> He's putting nothing into this minus the week he tried to be engaged with me. He's reading nothing, therapy not, or thinking as far as I can tell. I'm quite sure he loses way more than I do in divorce, as he'll have to keep up support which is his forte and I'll stay with the kids.
> 
> He says he's depressed. He certainly hasn't been as "together" as normal.
> 
> He travels. So I said, let's not talk this week, text/email important stuff. I think, maybe I should go somewhere next weekend to give him a taste of divorce. But then this all seems like manipulation. If he's so uninterested, just call it a day/a life/a marriage.
> 
> What to do for the guy who seems to be slowly coming around? He has many characteristics I'd look for in a new guy, seems silly not to recycle this one.



You are on a road to nowhere, his life stays comfy and you suffer in partial silence, you need to create a big shake up, separate and see how life is, you may discover that you are happier without him, meanwhile it will show him you mean business and secondly give him the chance to work on himself. Sadly he may not have it in him so you have to consider a back up plan in the event he is incapable of change, some of them will never change.


----------



## john117

Diana7 said:


> What have you done to improve yourself and the marriage?


The collective has a difficult time accepting the fact that contributory negligence is not always balanced or 50/50 but is often hugely lopsided. 

As such, improving from a 90% perfect to a 95% perfect and expecting your 10% perfect partner to improve dramatically is a lost cause.

The concept of 90/10 is very hard to visualize if you're a 50/50 couple.


----------



## SunCMars

Openminded said:


> I thought my marriage would be forever. I got very close to my 50th anniversary but I didn't quite make it. Long marriages aren't necessarily healthy marriages. Sometimes they're just long. And sometimes they really do need to be brought to an end no matter how much we wish we didn't have to.


I hear that bell, ringing off in the distance. The sound travels up the Valleys and Dales.

It ricochets off of interfering trees and rocks in the way..in it's relentless travel.

To my ears, to my heart. 

When the sound finally reaches the floppy appendages on the sides of my cranium it transmits disharmonious rancor in my head.

In my painful wordsmith manner, i decipher those sounds. From a ringing bell, distorted by time and distance, it burbles forth the music:

Get out, get out, get out!

The sounds now are deafening, though they are not, they seem to stay in my head, continuing to build strength, continuing to impel me to:

Escape the prison....go over the wall, head for the greenery over the next hill......head South.

Head South and meet my yearnings and my dreams that tomorrow certainly brings.

My feet stand in your shoes @KrisAmiss 

I wish you would have left me a larger pair....these my feet do pinch!

After, well, more than forty years....Over the Wall! Over the Wall, I dream!

SCM


----------



## SunCMars

john117 said:


> The collective has a difficult time accepting the fact that contributory negligence is not always balanced or 50/50 but is often hugely lopsided.
> 
> As such, improving from a 90% perfect to a 95% perfect and expecting your 10% perfect partner to improve dramatically is a lost cause.
> 
> The concept of 90/10 is very hard to visualize if you're a 50/50 couple.


Applying Math to 'Human Emotional Behavior' is trying to stick {hard factual pebbles} onto a Vaseline coated blackboard........on a hot day, sans AC. AC/DC logic.


----------



## john117

SunCMars said:


> Applying Math to 'Human Emotional Behavior' is trying to stick {hard factual pebbles} onto a Vaseline coated blackboard........on a hot day, sans AC. AC/DC logic.


Decision Analysis is your friend


----------



## Cooper

Diana7 said:


> Many people think that the grass will always be greener but it's often isn't. Except for serious abuse of the spouse or children or adultery, I would not end a marriage.


Many times it's not about finding greener grass, many times it's about escaping the misery of being in an unhappy and unhealthy relationship. There's a big difference between struggling to make a marriage work or suffering thru an unworkable marriage.


----------



## john117

Ironically finances and lifestyle have as much to do with it as happiness or what not.

I could have a dream marriage () but I'm more concerned with the future, both financial and operational. By now we're set in our ways - she wants (and has) a McMansion to retire in. As I was moving my younger daughter to her Trump Towers college apartment I could not help but admire the setup she got, a cool urban setting and the flexibility it provides to an older couple to explore the world. 

Do you divorce over that? Especially when no compromise is likely?


----------



## Diana7

Cooper said:


> Many times it's not about finding greener grass, many times it's about escaping the misery of being in an unhappy and unhealthy relationship. There's a big difference between struggling to make a marriage work or suffering thru an unworkable marriage.


Nearly all of the divorces I know of were because one spouse ran off after another person, not because the marriage was unworkable.


----------



## KrisAmiss

SunCMars said:


> I hear that bell, ringing off in the distance. The sound travels up the Valleys and Dales.
> 
> It ricochets off of interfering trees and rocks in the way..in it's relentless travel.
> 
> To my ears, to my heart.
> 
> When the sound finally reaches the floppy appendages on the sides of my cranium it transmits disharmonious rancor in my head.
> 
> In my painful wordsmith manner, i decipher those sounds. From a ringing bell, distorted by time and distance, it burbles forth the music:
> 
> Get out, get out, get out!
> 
> The sounds now are deafening, though they are not, they seem to stay in my head, continuing to build strength, continuing to impel me to:
> 
> Escape the prison....go over the wall, head for the greenery over the next hill......head South.
> 
> Head South and meet my yearnings and my dreams that tomorrow certainly brings.
> 
> My feet stand in your shoes @KrisAmiss
> 
> I wish you would have left me a larger pair....these my feet do pinch!
> 
> After, well, more than forty years....Over the Wall! Over the Wall, I dream!
> 
> SCM


I appreciate all comments but this... my fav line "I wish you would have left me a larger pair....these my feet do pinch!" A good laugh is what I relish. Thanks, SCM!

Get Out was also a comical, suspenseful film. I recommend.


----------



## turnera

You only get one life. It shouldn't be spent just existing. And you shouldn't teach your kids to just exist. Men typically will not change unless they have to. Give him a reason to. File for legal separation, then either you or he moves out. Give him a year to win you back. If he can keep up change for a year, it can become a new lifestyle.


----------



## DustyDog

KrisAmiss said:


> My parents were married 51 years. Not a perfect couple, they didn't always seem to like each other. But they stuck together and were there in some form for each other and for us, even amid disappointment. Dad had anger issues, some Asperger traits. Mom was a doormat, passive. They gave me plenty of attributes to try to avoid or correct. Yet in the end, he got sick and she was his rock and he died a married man among his family. I took care of him some but the burden wasn't all on me. They had each other and all that shared history. That takes a lot of patience.
> 
> Here I am, 26 years in a marriage that hit hard points 20 years then 15 years then 5 years then 3 years ago and now - seemingly getting worse and worse. Is that just life or do I truly get to/have to start over? I wonder how it is to be a kid of divorced parents - and I'm sure there are many stories - but I do rather appreciate that my parents didn't split even though it wasn't always great. Even when not perfect, they meant well. Isn't that love?
> 
> I do feel like I've progressed more than my parents by actively addressing the problems. Divorced kids are more likely to become divorced parents, so the opposite must be true. Do I stay in cuz that seems normal to me? I'm totally down with dating and all that yummy stuff, but I'm a mom... still thinking about my kids -- one of my best attributes and my worst downfalls.
> 
> I guess the question is, how much happier will I be? Is that worth sacrificing the hope and happiness of my kids? They'll all be "adults" in 3 years so it's not so much inconvenience growing up but for the rest of their lives. I have my "ticket" to leave -- I realize I've been treated like crap. But I find myself thinking, we know the problems now. Can we fix it?


You need to take a Big Picture look at life.

My parents have been married 66 years. They struggled with money, they struggled with kids, they argued, they trod the same arguments over and over. They spent so much time arguing that they had little time for much of anything else. The kids have done OK, although 3 of 4 of us have not kept marriages together. My folks now in their 90s and what can they look back on? They took few trips. They never grew spiritually. Once past their first college degrees, they stopped. They worked the same job their entire lives. It would be difficult for them to say what was different at age 80 than at age 40.

"not getting divorced" is not the same as staying married!!! I'm hardly one to talk...I'm ending my marriage of 17 years and should have done so 15 years ago.

As far as the hope and happiness of your kids. Hope is a desparation measure, used only when you see no clear path forward. If all you've had is hope for years, then it's time for a change. My first thought is counseling for you as an individual (to help you figure out your goals) and then the two of you as a couple. If you've done this and it did not work, or your wife is unwilling, then it's kind of your decision.

If you're not happy, then it is already affecting the kids. Myself and my siblings have all struggled in relationships because my parents did not have a good one - so we did not have a good model. Your marital relationship is what your children are learning. Do you want them to repeat what you have?

Hope this is useful.

DD


----------



## SunCMars

turnera said:


> You only get one life. It shouldn't be spent just existing. And you shouldn't teach your kids to just exist. Men typically will not change unless they have to. Give him a reason to. File for legal separation, then either you or he moves out. Give him a year to win you back. If he can keep up change for a year, it can become a new lifestyle.


Ah, yes...Dear T.

This is a paper clip on a stored memo. A 'too nondescript' winning tip on the next one year Rat Race.

There needs to be, "The rest of the story".

You know.....what are the rules?

The Rules of Engagement....with the enemies......enemies of marriage.

You know, you know, you know......those enemies of marriage that can impregnate, can force a {new life} birth, cause a permanent ending. 

Balding enemies with two arms, three legs....a hungry lustful heart.

Dear OP will be without a man in the interim...without intimacy. Until she is not. 

And Dear @KrisAmiss is hot.....is she not?

Just Sayin'


----------



## KrisAmiss

SunCMars said:


> Dear OP will be without a man in the interim...without intimacy. Until she is not.
> 
> And Dear @KrisAmiss is hot.....is she not?
> 
> Just Sayin'


I AM still hot! Only now it comes in flashes. :chinese::chinese::chinese::chinese:

(why would they have a chinese emoticon? hmm)


----------



## Openminded

john117 said:


> Ironically finances and lifestyle have as much to do with it as happiness or what not.
> 
> I could have a dream marriage () but I'm more concerned with the future, both financial and operational. By now we're set in our ways - she wants (and has) a McMansion to retire in. As I was moving my younger daughter to her Trump Towers college apartment I could not help but admire the setup she got, a cool urban setting and the flexibility it provides to an older couple to explore the world.
> 
> Do you divorce over that? Especially when no compromise is likely?


IIRC, for years you said you would be done this spring -- but it sounds like you're still there? So, maybe in your case, the answer is no?


----------



## x598

OP

it just sounds to me like you are bored and looking to your spouse to make your life "meaningful and feel appreciated". While i can understand that to a degree.....it really is YOUR problem and not his.

did you really think after all these years you would still be hot and heavy for each other like newlyweds? come on. 

i think the reason so many older generation marriages survived is because society today is nothing like what it was 50 years ago. too much "it's all about me and my feelings" and a disposable mentality where you simply quit and move on to something else because there is something new right there to replace it.

if you want to make your marriage fresh and exciting......be that person and don't expect miracles. if you think the grass is greener on the other side....well from a distance it may appear to be that way. but we all know the truth and that is the grass is greenest where you water and tend it.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

x598 said:


> O{
> 
> did you really think after all these years you would still be hot and heavy for each other like newlyweds? come on.


Hi, for me, that answer is a resounding yes. Yes because that is like oxygen to a relationship for me. I need it as badly as I need fidelity and honesty. I'm sure I'm not alone, nor is that thought ridiculous.


----------



## Zanne

x598 said:


> if you want to make your marriage fresh and exciting......be that person and don't expect miracles. if you think the grass is greener on the other side....well from a distance it may appear to be that way. but we all know the truth and that is the grass is greenest where you water and tend it.


Sometimes there is no coaxing that old grass back to life and you find your yard is even greener when you start over with fresh new sod! And, remembering the fate of your old grass, you take very good care of the new grass and never take it for granted.


----------



## x598

Zanne said:


> Sometimes there is no coaxing that old grass back to life and you find your yard is even greener when you start over with fresh new sod! And, remembering the fate of your old grass, you take very good care of the new grass and never take it for granted.


i agree that you cant resurrect something that is truly dead. for that matter i am divorced. The OP is the one asking herself the question if her relationship is dead. the fact that she can't make up her mind is proof that there are some facets of it that are good. In other words, it ain't dead.

I also agree people take better care of their new lawn....yet if that is true, why is second marriage divorce rate higher then first marriages?

once again.....just showing that many times the devil you do know is better than the one you don't.


----------



## Young at Heart

KrisAmiss said:


> My parents were married 51 years. Not a perfect couple, they didn't always seem to like each other. But they stuck together and were there in some form for each other and for us, even amid disappointment. Dad had anger issues, some Asperger traits. Mom was a doormat, passive. They gave me plenty of attributes to try to avoid or correct. Yet in the end, he got sick and she was his rock and he died a married man among his family. I took care of him some but the burden wasn't all on me. They had each other and all that shared history. That takes a lot of patience.
> 
> Here I am, 26 years in a marriage that hit hard points 20 years then 15 years then 5 years then 3 years ago and now - seemingly getting worse and worse. Is that just life or do I truly get to/have to start over? I wonder how it is to be a kid of divorced parents - and I'm sure there are many stories - but I do rather appreciate that my parents didn't split even though it wasn't always great. *Even when not perfect, they meant well. Isn't that love?
> *
> I do feel like I've progressed more than my parents by actively addressing the problems. Divorced kids are more likely to become divorced parents, so the opposite must be true. Do I stay in cuz that seems normal to me? I'm totally down with dating and all that yummy stuff, but I'm a mom... still thinking about my kids -- one of my best attributes and my worst downfalls.
> 
> *I guess the question is, how much happier will I be? Is that worth sacrificing the hope and happiness of my kids? They'll all be "adults" in 3 years so it's not so much inconvenience growing up but for the rest of their lives. I have my "ticket" to leave -- I realize I've been treated like crap. But I find myself thinking, we know the problems now. Can we fix it?*





KrisAmiss said:


> My recent saga is on a thread Virtual Affairs, BSDM Fantasies... *But DH & I lost our emotional connection long ago. We've been decent roommates but both agree we don't have what we want couplewise. Can we get a good relationship back?*
> 
> I guess the question I was asking was, *what does a good marriage look like and will the pain of divorce and the pain for my kids be worth my extra happiness? *All relationships have problems and it seems you're just dragging more people into it when you divorce and re-relation. Will my new guy's kids be happy to see me coming? Even though I'm awesome, they may not see me that way. My kids might not be that happy to see me happy with another man. That's the thing - I don't know what divorced families look like or feel like. It just seems it'd be more unstable. I haven't been happy but part of that is my fault for accepting it. *Is it unrealistic to think that this person who once made me exceedingly happy could make me happy once again?* He loves my kids. I think he's game to try (though he's been volatile). He said, just because you're standing on the bridge looking to jump doesn't mean you're actually going to do it. I guess that's one way of saying this might work.
> 
> Ideally people would stay together. I read Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay but I don't think you can just ignore your kids in the equation. A divorced pair went to court today cuz the wife wants to move. Dad asked the 15 yo what he wanted and he said - I want things to go back to the way they were.
> 
> That's a child's heart. :-( I have no question here. I only doubt myself when I think of my doormat mom. The things our parents do affect us so much. Sigh. Toughest job ever.





KrisAmiss said:


> Help. I'm still here in Limbo Land. Still trying but getting irritated.
> 
> We had a good week when he tried. Then one slip and he said, divorce. but soon enough, back to trying.
> 
> We just had a crap weekend. *He's so freaked about his job and doing other things. I am nowhere near a priority. He seems to have little interest in me or this wonky marriage.* He claims it's just a bad week. Yet he admits he's not that interested. Sorry.
> 
> He wants to stay in our comfortable lifestyle, with the kids. I guess he's happy with how things were, roommates, whatever. He doesn't want to think too much about it. His head hurts. He's tired.
> 
> He gets sad when I say I actually want a relationship and I'm not just going to go back to the obviously broken one we were having. So I say, do you want out or do you need 2 more weeks? The latter...
> 
> He's putting nothing into this minus the week he tried to be engaged with me. He's reading nothing, therapy not, or thinking as far as I can tell. I'm quite sure he loses way more than I do in divorce, as he'll have to keep up support which is his forte and I'll stay with the kids.
> 
> He says he's depressed. He certainly hasn't been as "together" as normal.
> 
> He travels. So I said, let's not talk this week, text/email important stuff. *I think, maybe I should go somewhere next weekend to give him a taste of divorce.* But then this all seems like manipulation. If he's so uninterested, just call it a day/a life/a marriage.
> 
> What to do for the guy who seems to be slowly coming around? He has many characteristics I'd look for in a new guy, *seems silly not to recycle this one*.





KrisAmiss said:


> So sad. *I'm 50 and feeling old*; there you are at 76. It's never too late to make a stand. What's confusing is setting aside the idea that marriage is for life. My DH is depressed as far as I can tell, so do I stay with this? A*lot of what I was thinking was not only saving the marriage but helping him. My compassion goes too far. *So I was so sad, even as late as last weekend, just thinking that it's come to this... So I decide, you don't have to do this any more. You tried and it didn't work and that's okay. It's not the best time to leave with my kids' situations but I can keep my eyes open to new possibilties. Then, as though he has read my mind that I've decided to leave him, he suddenly is sympathetic to me, saying what an ******* he's been. smh. I don't even want to think about it.
> 
> We all deserve love. So many people in the world. Why is it so hard to find?


That is a lot. You are sad and feel that you are not getting the love you need. You are wondering what your next step should be.

Around the time I turned 60, my wife of a little less than 40 years would no longer have sex with me. When I pushed, out of a need to feel connected to her, she would have sex with me and then pick a fight to emotionally hurt me to the point that I never wanted to have sex with her again. 

What was interesting is that she blamed me for our failing marriage. She felt I ignored her. I felt that she had pushed me away. In Chapmans's 5 Languages of love my primary and secondary love languages are touch and praise. There was not sex and there was no touch in our marriage. I looked for praise and got none. Ultimately, I devoted myself to my "job." I thought I was "providing" for my family by working long hours and getting promotions and raises. In reality I was searching for someone (peers and boss) who would praise me, since my wife wouldn't. He felt I was abandoning her for my job. (You might do some introspection on your saying his priority is his job and not you.)

Ultimately, I decided that I deserved better. I promised myself that in a year and a half, I was going to be in a loving and sexual relationship with a woman who cared about me. I knew that I was damaged goods and needed to heal myself, if I was not to repeat the mistakes that got me to where I was.

I started to read a number of relationship books. I found that I was part of the problem in my marriage, that I was not just a victim of a frigid wife. Ultimately I started to change myself for the better and started to do things to make my wife feel loved and cherished (Per Chapman, I learned her love languages and used them to make her feel loved each day).

I then suggested that we see a marriage counselor who was also a sex therapist (as they have extra training in sexual problems.). With a lot of help and each of use working hard to change our self, we were able to save our marriage.

You sound like you are very close to seeking divorce. My advice to you is to work on changing yourself to become a better spouse for either your current husband or your next partner. Then when you have made some changes in yourself, demand that you and your H start marriage counseling. If he says no, then go without him. If he asks why, tell him that you have made yourself a promise that by a certain age, you will be in a healthy emotional and sexual relationship with a man. Tell him that you would like it to be with him, but if he will not participate in counseling then you want to change yourself so you can be the perfect woman for the next man in your life. 

Good luck.

P.S. Can you recycle a spouse and be happy? In my experience, you can, if you both work at it even if you don't think you need to change yourself, you really do need to change.

P.P.S. Staying married a long time is more about commitment than love, but it can if both of you work at it include lots of love.


----------



## Zanne

x598 said:


> i agree that you cant resurrect something that is truly dead. for that matter i am divorced. The OP is the one asking herself the question if her relationship is dead. the fact that she can't make up her mind is proof that there are some facets of it that are good. In other words, it ain't dead.
> 
> *I also agree people take better care of their new lawn....yet if that is true, why is second marriage divorce rate higher then first marriages?*
> 
> once again.....just showing that many times the devil you do know is better than the one you don't.


Perhaps they get lazy again, old habits and all of that. I think people are doomed to repeat the same mistakes in every relationship, unless they really take some time to figure things out. Maybe this has been observed before, but I know that I found it difficult to work on myself when I was in a miserable relationship. I can understand why a separation might work in that case. On the other hand, separation can be the last nail in the coffin.

As far as the OP making up her mind, she brings her parent's long term marriage into her story, so I think the idea of commitment, as Young at Heart mentioned, is important to her and maybe she is also struggling with the fact that we still deal with the social stigma of divorce, even though it is more common now.

Maybe she can take a long weekend away, by herself, to just think and meditate about the whole situation.


----------



## Red Sonja

Cooper said:


> Many times it's not about finding greener grass, many times* it's about escaping the misery of being in an unhappy and unhealthy relationship. There's a big difference between struggling to make a marriage work or suffering thru an unworkable marriage*.





Diana7 said:


> Nearly all of the divorces I know of were because one spouse ran off after another person, not because the marriage was unworkable.


Well now you know me.

I left for the reasons *Cooper *stated, being alone is nirvana compared to the marriage I was in ... that in itself was the "greener grass" for me.


----------



## KrisAmiss

Young at Heart said:


> That is a lot. You are sad and feel that you are not getting the love you need. You are wondering what your next step should be.
> He felt I was abandoning her for my job. (You might do some introspection on your saying his priority is his job and not you.)
> 
> Ultimately, I decided that I deserved better. I promised myself that in a year and a half, I was going to be in a loving and sexual relationship with a woman who cared about me. I knew that I was damaged goods and needed to heal myself, if I was not to repeat the mistakes that got me to where I was.
> 
> I started to read a number of relationship books. I found that I was part of the problem in my marriage, that I was not just a victim of a frigid wife. Ultimately I started to change myself for the better and started to do things to make my wife feel loved and cherished (Per Chapman, I learned her love languages and used them to make her feel loved each day).
> 
> I then suggested that we see a marriage counselor who was also a sex therapist (as they have extra training in sexual problems.). With a lot of help and each of use working hard to change our self, we were able to save our marriage.
> 
> You sound like you are very close to seeking divorce. My advice to you is to work on changing yourself to become a better spouse for either your current husband or your next partner. Then when you have made some changes in yourself, demand that you and your H start marriage counseling. If he says no, then go without him. If he asks why, tell him that you have made yourself a promise that by a certain age, you will be in a healthy emotional and sexual relationship with a man. Tell him that you would like it to be with him, but if he will not participate in counseling then you want to change yourself so you can be the perfect woman for the next man in your life.
> 
> Good luck.
> 
> P.S. Can you recycle a spouse and be happy? In my experience, you can, if you both work at it even if you don't think you need to change yourself, you really do need to change.
> 
> P.P.S. Staying married a long time is more about commitment than love, but it can if both of you work at it include lots of love.


That's a great story. I started this thread sad to leave a marriage so late in life. Yours would've been one to say -- see?

I had decided that yes, I'm not perfect, we can make it work! Fast forward through iterations of me reading, trying to a great wife and him lying to me that he was in it while continuing to pursue young hawt thangs. To boom, him telling me he has no sexual interest in me. My enthusiasm has waned. He doesn't care that I sucked up all that mistreatment. He doesn't care what effort I put in this. I can't believe anything he says. He's not concerned about me or this marriage. He only cares about lying to the kids. He wants to hold out til they graduate. But then he doesn't. "Maybe we'll like each other again..."

I finally thought, what is it that I'm trying to save here? He travels/works most of the time so it's already a divorce type arrangement for the kids. I was trying to save it for my kids and I suppose old time's sake. I actually felt sorry for my DH, acting like a fool with those women. Let him catch one. I would love to be a fly on the wall. 

So, you're right. I've only got me to work on improving. I've removed my rings and opened my mind to possibilities. I think it's stupid to divorce so late since I've already put up with so much and we're kinda old. But, cut my losses... I didn't consider divorce before. I guess I thought I was building something. Weird how that could be. <shrug>


----------



## turnera

It's not stupid. You now have a new lease on life. You get to take what you learned and create an amazing last third of your life. Jealous!


----------



## Openminded

Indeed it's not stupid to divorce late in life. My marriage had 20 more years of mileage on it than yours does when I finally pulled the plug. You know what you gain? All the freedom in the world. I went from living with my parents to living with my husband -- except for a few years in a college dorm -- so I had never before had the freedom to 100% do as I please, when I please. Now I do. And I'm still giddy about it. 

Never underestimate the power of being free to live your life as you choose.


----------



## turnera

My dad cheated on my mom. Thought he was all that. So when she caught him, he moved out so he could get all those hot babes and amazing sex. But when he tried to come home, she told him to eat shyte - she was never going to contort herself for a man again. She was about 35, 40, I think. And she was single and happy for the rest of her life. Did whatever she wanted, went where she wanted, when she wanted. She loved it. She could have dated, she just decided not to.


----------



## Young at Heart

KrisAmiss said:


> ......
> 
> *I finally thought, what is it that I'm trying to save here?* He travels/works most of the time so it's already a divorce type arrangement for the kids. I was trying to save it for my kids and I suppose old time's sake. I actually felt sorry for my DH, acting like a fool with those women. Let him catch one. I would love to be a fly on the wall.
> 
> So, you're right. *I've only got me to work on improving.* I've removed my rings and opened my mind to possibilities. I think it's stupid to divorce so late since I've already put up with so much and we're kinda old. But, cut my losses... I didn't consider divorce before. I guess I thought I was building something. Weird how that could be. <shrug>


A couple of thoughts. Figure out what you positively want 5 years in the future, 10 years in the future.

I wouldn't take off your rings, but focus on YOU and what you want for yourself and your children.

Tell your H that you are going to undertake an attempt at transforming yourself into someone you want to be. That transformation will include how you want to treat and be treated by your children as well how to treat and are treated by the man in your life. Tell him that the status quo will not last much longer, but that at the counseling sessions you have signed up for, you would enjoy him as an active participant and you will be happy to help him transform himself.

But above all work on changing yourself to who you want to be , who you want your kids to see you as. Be inclusive in your changes. 

In my change, I took up running and mountain climbing and did those activities with my kids and their family. 
My wife even took up exercising and my kids viewed me as a role model for getting to be a "fit-active" old man who does interesting stuff.


Good luck


----------



## KrisAmiss

Thanks, all. You're right, Young at Heart. It should be all about me. But I guess these ancient ideas of marriage really got stuck in my head cuz even though I comprehend that my husband has lied freely to me and without remorse and probably continues to do so, I'm still sad. Even though I see without the deceit, he's really not great for me in many ways anyway - apparently I still care. I don't know why. It's very futile.

So I read The 180 to see what that is and it's just being even keel and not worrying about stuff. I was doing that for a little while after I stopped *trying* to be the good wife and it was ok. He still puts no effort in which doesn't surprise me. Then he got a new job on Fri. didn't bother to tell me until I asked last night Sun. A f'n job! Kind of a big deal. It put me into a huge tailspin cuz clearly I'm not his wife anymore. I mean, you would tell a wife the day you found out. So I'm just a person in the house.

So he says that I'm an important part of the family. I'm more productive than most! Than my minor children. I'm more productive than my kids and gosh, that's supposed to make me feel valued? wtf. He doesn't even understand why that's condescending. I guess he's complementing me as a mom? I'm not sure what he's trying to say but clearly I am unimportant to him. BUT I KNEW THAT! I'm having such a hard time emotionally when I am thinking it'll be for the best to split. It's going to take too long to do so though.

I want to run away from this place but meanwhile my middle child continues with serious issues. I'm emotionally drained from the needs. My oldest leaves the country this week for a year and the other's a busy charm but there's no getting away from any of this. And my traveling H is staying home for the week. Never want I want.

Lawd I'm rambling. Let me pull myself together and tell a horrible tale just to amuse myself. The last time I had sex was the worst sexual experience of my life. The morning light came... <cue the music> Our bodies stirred beneath the snow white sheets... I emitted a gentle moan and reached over to feel his warm skin... alas, he was ready... he lazily turned me to my side and pumped his beep beep into my beep body... with the affection of one reaching for his plastic blowup doll. A groan and ... Seriously?

Yep, that was the last time. Memorable! Ah. I do feel a little better. Writing therapy.


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## Ynot

x598 said:


> I also agree people take better care of their new lawn....yet if that is true, why is second marriage divorce rate higher then first marriages?


Because often times they don't take better care of their new lawn, they just get a new lawn because they ruined the last one and then proceed to ruin the new one. Most people don't bother to learn the lessons that divorce and break ups should teach them (us). Instead they just rinse and repeat without ever making any real changes. Most second marriage fail for the same reasons as first marriages - they didn't learn anything and proceeded to make the same mistake.


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## Young at Heart

Dear KrissAmiss;

I am sorry for what you are dealing with.

My recommendation is again to get some marriage counseling, so if nothing else you can fix yourself.

If you H objects or says he will not participate, tell him the cost of a marriage counselor is a lot less than the cost of two divorce attorneys. 

Good luck. Figure out what you need to be emotionally happy, then work toward it.


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## Sylvia224

Thank you for this clarity, and thank you OP for such an insightful question, I wish you the best (im in my forties with kids younger but otherwise completely relate to your post).


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## turnera

Get your own counselor. You can't change him. You won't change him. The person you need to change is you.


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## SunCMars

turnera said:


> My dad cheated on my mom. Thought he was all that. So when she caught him, he moved out so he could get all those hot babes and amazing sex. But when he tried to come home, she told him to eat shyte - she was never going to contort herself for a man again. She was about 35, 40, I think. And she was single and happy for the rest of her life. Did whatever she wanted, went where she wanted, when she wanted. She loved it. She could have dated, she just decided not to.


I hate this post.

And I hate soooo very few things in life. When you understand people you can deal with them, maybe overlook their failings, maybe even forgive them. Maybe not.

To me your mother is a great women, she is.

She is also asexual. That I cannot swallow.

It angers me. 

I want women to need men. 

God knows I need women. For everything they were put on the Earth for.

What a waste.

A women should always have a set of loving male hands rubbing all over her. Her breasts should be his toys....til death do one part. >

Just Sayin'


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## turnera

She probably would have, but the three men she'd had in her life all used her. The one who got her pregnant, causing her to have to move across the country to avoid shame (in the 50s), the one who married her and cheated on her, and the old friend who started visiting her in her 50s, only to find out he was still married and just wanted some on the side.


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## KrisAmiss

SunCMars said:


> I hate this post.
> 
> And I hate soooo very few things in life. When you understand people you can deal with them, maybe overlook their failings, maybe even forgive them. Maybe not.
> 
> To me your mother is a great women, she is.
> 
> She is also asexual. That I cannot swallow.
> 
> It angers me.
> 
> I want women to need men.
> 
> God knows I need women. For everything they were put on the Earth for.
> 
> What a waste.
> 
> A women should always have a set of loving male hands rubbing all over her. Her breasts should be his toys....til death do one part. >
> 
> Just Sayin'


You make me laugh here more than anyone, SCM. Of course most of these tales are depressing, but still.

I agree that for me, the thought of living single forever or even a bit of awhile doesn't appeal to me at all! I was even willing to contemplate deeply this relationship of mine which has essentially ended in quite a dramatic fashion with the sleazy multiple online women. Geez. And whether it's force of habit, my own stupidity or an extremely deep commitment I made 26 years ago, I've still tried to keep it rolling. Seems it's going virtual. A virtual relationship. We'll pretend and/or actually stay married, we'll just date on the sly. Seems destined to end horribly but hey, not my idea. I'm going to see if any of my old BSDM friends are still with us.


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## SunCMars

KrisAmiss said:


> You make me laugh here more than anyone, SCM. Of course most of these tales are depressing, but still.
> 
> I agree that for me, the thought of living single forever or even a bit of awhile doesn't appeal to me at all! I was even willing to contemplate deeply this relationship of mine which has essentially ended in quite a dramatic fashion with the sleazy multiple online women. Geez. And whether it's force of habit, my own stupidity or an extremely deep commitment I made 26 years ago, I've still tried to keep it rolling. Seems it's going virtual. A virtual relationship. We'll pretend and/or actually stay married, *we'll just date on the sly.* Seems destined to end horribly but hey, not my idea. I'm going to see if any of my old BSDM friends are still with us.


Oh, boy..

Get divorced first. Less complications. So easy to say.

BDSM? Maybe, not likely. Too many other conventional 'options' available.

Then again some ladies need to be paddled!


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## SunCMars

turnera said:


> She probably would have, but the three men she'd had in her life all used her. The one who got her pregnant, causing her to have to move across the country to avoid shame (in the 50s), the one who married her and cheated on her, and the old friend who started visiting her in her 50s, only to find out he was still married and just wanted some on the side.


Got ya.

Bad luck with men. What a shame. 

She has a great daughter. That is no small fortune.


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