# Bail or try to find common ground with her? GD female friends....



## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I REALLY don't want to post here and hear all the negativity but there are a few here that offer good advice. I have been mostly minding my own business, trying not to have any romantic relationship with a woman. Met a lady a few weeks ago. Though I did not say specifically, "I do not want to date or do ANYTHING romantic", I sort of feel I implied that. 

She txt one night weeks ago wanting to grab a couple drinks. No biggy and we had a good time. We hugged after all that and went our separate ways. I guess I was feeling good because she is an INTJ, a microbiologist, and has her **** together. We have been texting a bit for weeks as time permits. She texted tonight to tell me she went on a really rough date and laughing about it. I laughed with her but told her I could stop by her place to chat if she had time. She agreed and I am thinking NOTHING of it. I went there in practically gym clothes. We talked for a while and having a fun time. That's about the time she attacked me..........Just talking and she grabbed and kissed me like she hasn't done that for a while. If I was not completely dense, I might have realized she had no bra or undies on and was in her jams. She was ready to ""snuggle"".........lol

I guess I gave in and reciprocated with the kissing and touching a bit for a while but she was pretty damn adamant that we sleep together. I told her I needed to get to work tomorrow and really worked to get out the door. I sort of feel like my "no" was not being accepted. To be straight, I was trying to be nice here but I could easily "leave". I just felt like even one "no" should be enough. 

This went on for a while before I finally had to drive a wedge and get gone. It left me wondering WTF I need to do here? Can we find common ground to be friends here or did I, once again, miss key signals and need to leave this all in the dust? She is a really nice and smart woman but I just don't want to lead anyone on at this point. I felt like I made that clear before but apparently not. I think she made her intentions and feelings very obvious so I am not sure if we can recover from that or not?


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

She was feeling horny. It’s that simple. Don’t read any more into it than that. 
If you don’t want a sexual relationship then make it clear from the start. What you were was a booty call who didn’t deliver.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

She probably thinks, since you are a man, you want to shag anything that moves or breathes... :laugh: I have been in a similar situation when I was younger and it's really awkward. I had to be very clear. I suggest you text the lady and reiterate your position. Maybe she won't talk to you now... :laugh: Also, although I don't know your story, you come across a bit naive like that...


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## Cooper (Apr 18, 2008)

You may not have the option of finding common ground. In her eyes you flat out rejected her romantically, that's probably going to hurt her and piss her off. Today she is telling her girlfriends you are either gay or a limp ****...regardless she is feeling a bit hurt and humiliated. 

I'm not familiar with your history so not sure why you are unwilling to enjoy sex. I know your not a teenage virgin, so from her perspective being rejected by a grown man is a red flag.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

She may move right on out of your life ol bud.
Once you've shown you aren't interested she's likely continuing to look for a good poke.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"Though I did not say specifically, "I do not want to date or do ANYTHING romantic", *I sort of feel I implied that."
*
This is your problem. What does the bolded even mean? You're being wishy-washy to keep your options open and, essentially, leading women on. Quite the dilettante.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Tell women very clearly, from the beginning, that you aren't interested in dating. Some will probably be happy to just be friends. Others will know to move on.


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## blazer prophet (Jun 1, 2019)

There's nothing wrong with having a friend with benefits.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Unfortunately that is a common belief and it can lead to badly hurt feelings, and sometimes far worse.

For all that people talk about gender equality, there is still a sense that a woman who jumps a man sexually is "hot" while a man who does that to a woman is harassing, bordering on being a rapist.

The problem is that there IS a lot of truth to that belief in many case. The majority of men ARE happy to have sex with an attractive woman that they are dating. I can't think of any occasion when I was on anything resembling a date with a woman where I would not have been happy to have sex if she had wanted to. 





In Absentia said:


> She probably thinks, since you are a man, you want to shag anything that moves or breathes... :laugh: I have been in a similar situation when I was younger and it's really awkward. I had to be very clear. I suggest you text the lady and reiterate your position. Maybe she won't talk to you now... :laugh: Also, although I don't know your story, you come across a bit naive like that...


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

@bobsmith, why did you not want to have sex with her? Are you not sexually attracted to her, or are you refraining from getting into a relationship for other reasons? IOW - if you were interested in a relationship right now, would you be really excited about her or still looking after having met her? When you kissed her back were you just being polite because she caught you off guard, or were you really into it?

The fact is, unless you're "friends" because circumstances pulled you togheter (neighbors, coworkers, member of a church or club) adult men and women usually do not pursue "friendships" unless there is some romantic interest behind it. Even if you said you were not interested in romance at some point, well, a lot of people say that but if they stumble upon someone they're really attracted to, the attraction is more powerful than their intention to be romance free at the moment.

It sounds like you have trouble telling people things they don't want to hear. (I can relate.) If you want to keep a friendship with her I would say something like this:
"I feel bad that things got a little awkward last night. I really enjoy your company and value your friendship, but I've got some things going on in my life and I absolutely am not looking to get involved romantically with anyone right now. I know I never actually said that but for some reason I thought you knew that, so you caught me by surprise last night and I didn't know what to do."

Then be prepared for your "friendship" to cool off anyhow because it sounds like she IS looking for something romantic. Also, if you're really not attracted to her, and you do stay friends, at some point you probably WILL meet a woman you want to pursue romantically, and then your "friend" will realize that it really was HER you didn't want romantically and that may be painful for her.

BTW - I don't agree with all the glibness about FWB. People are more complicated than that. Especially most women are not going to be able to have an ongoing sexual relationship without developing feelings. If you're sleeping with someone regularly and they suddenly call it quits because they found "the one" elsewhere -- it's going to hurt. Also there are STDs and Pregnancy that can have lasting impact on your life.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Basically you strung her along "just in case," and now you are trying to blame HER for your issue.

Man up and be honest, and take responsibility for your own conflict avoidance.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

why wouldn't you want to get with her? Is she fat or smelly or something?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> why wouldn't you want to get with her? Is she fat or smelly or something?


:laugh:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He didn't want to 'get' with her because he doesn't want a girlfriend. He wants to hang out with women because all of his buds are in relationships and don't have time for him. He wants women friends - not girlfriends. But, if the 'right' one came along he would entertain the thought. Keeping his options open by not stating his boundaries up front. And, he keeps wondering how he winds up in these situations and what to do about them.

Here's a clue: women have friends. They don't necessarily want to hang out with guys (they probably have a cat or dog). They're not twelve.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Yipee. Another thread about how you don’t want women but they alllllll want you! You must still be a solid “8.5”


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

@WorkingWife To put it bluntly, my last relationship caused some very serious damage to me. Pretty much a full blown case of PTSD, night terrors, cold sweats, suicidal, the entire bit. Since that, I either no longer have the ability to "feel", or don't want to. I would agree that I reciprocated to a degree to try to be polite, while realizing the mess I just got in. We don't know each other all that well and most certainly did not discuss anything like protection, STDs, etc. 

The woman is certainly attractive but her advances caused mental "terror" for me that is hard to explain. At this point in life, I mostly need to laugh and have a good time somehow. I don't really go anywhere or do anything. I try to entertain myself as much as I can. I don't have any single friends and everyone is caught up in their family lives. 

I guess I figured since she was telling me about the poor date she went on, she was being open with me that she was trying to date and I honestly just wanted some conversation and I get tired of texting!

I guess I would say I suck at communicating my intentions or feelings to women these days mostly because I fear if I clearly say "I am looking for a friend and nothing more", they will no longer talk to me because I would say most women want a relationship. At this point, I think it might be easier to just put on a wedding ring. To be bluntly honest, as I am getting older, I think the herd has thinned out considerably by now. The way I see women today is "you are single for a reason, either by your poor decisions or there is something wrong with you, but either way, you are single for good reason"...... I am sure women probably look at me the same way, but apparently as women get older, they are VERY blunt about what they want. 

As far as feelings go, I just cannot answer that. I think there is substantial mental risk for me to get involved with anyone. Feels good to have those "good feelings", but I cannot handle the ride down anymore and I just won't trust a woman again. I guess I have had a few FWB deals but they all eventually get attached, pour their feelings on the floor, and I send them down the road. It feels pathetic to remember all the way back as a teen, all I wanted was ONE woman (wife) and a happy family, now realizing that is not where the road is headed. 

I would say I have a pretty substantial ability to block romantic feelings, even when kissing, touching, etc, and need to remember most people are not like me. 

I would say with this latest woman, I had high hopes because she is an INTJ personality so she can easily handle my technical mind, but I did NOT expect her romantic outburst at all! As was mentioned above, it seems once I block romantic advances from women, they fade out pretty quickly as they pursue other options. I don't like loosing those connections and friendships but I think I'm learning that I need to get out of the way.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> He didn't want to 'get' with her because he doesn't want a girlfriend. He wants to hang out with women because all of his buds are in relationships and don't have time for him. He wants women friends - not girlfriends. But, if the 'right' one came along he would entertain the thought. Keeping his options open by not stating his boundaries up front. And, he keeps wondering how he winds up in these situations and what to do about them.
> 
> Here's a clue: women have friends. They don't necessarily want to hang out with guys (they probably have a cat or dog). They're not twelve.


Aw, this hurts.

Men and women are sexual beings.

A great majority are this in the first place, the first person.

When she started to kiss him, he should have stood up and...left.
Never to return.

OP needs special glasses, not to read print, but to read between the lines.

He is naive.

By offering to come to her house, he led her on.
He is not acting 'normal'.

Ouch, that hurts too, no, three.

Nice guy syndrome at work, here.
Hear?




[THM]- Lilith


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## Ursula (Dec 2, 2016)

I have no idea if you missed out on signs from her or not, but in my world, the word "no" should definitely, 137% be enough, no matter who is saying it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You just weren't clear enough. Even that night, you weren't being clear - "Look, I wanted to be friends with you, not friends with benefits; I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression." Lesson learned, right?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> @WorkingWife To put it bluntly, my last relationship caused some very serious damage to me. Pretty much a full blown case of PTSD, night terrors, cold sweats, suicidal, the entire bit. Since that, I either no longer have the ability to "feel", or don't want to. I would agree that I reciprocated to a degree to try to be polite, while realizing the mess I just got in. We don't know each other all that well and most certainly did not discuss anything like protection, STDs, etc.
> 
> The woman is certainly attractive but her advances caused mental "terror" for me that is hard to explain. At this point in life, I mostly need to laugh and have a good time somehow. I don't really go anywhere or do anything. I try to entertain myself as much as I can. I don't have any single friends and everyone is caught up in their family lives.
> 
> ...



Then get some therapy and stay away from the opposite gender. This isn't rocket science.

Your trauma doesn't entitle you to be a jerk. No....it doesn't.


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

From your description, it sounds like she assaulted you. 

If you were a woman stating the exact same thing, people would be responding differently. It really doesn't matter what was said before. Whether you led her on or not. Once she started and you said no, that should have been enough for her to stop. That is the response you would be getting if you were a woman posting the same story.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'll bet dollars to donuts that he did not actually say "No". He offers to come over, gets there and she's in her pajamas - she may have thought he was playing hard to get. I mean come on:circle:.


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## Tomara (Jun 19, 2013)

She may not want to be around you anymore but that’s probably good for you since you guys aren’t on the same page. 

I you might want to just be blunt next time you want a girl as a friend. Hey, don’t want to date, no FWB, no sex period. If you want friendship that would be great.

Not everyone on here is a loosie goose with sex. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> I'll bet dollars to donuts that he did not actually say "No"


Do you realize how horrible this sounds?

I'll bet dollars to donuts that *she* did not actually say "No"

WOW


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

bobsmith said:


> [MENTION=194074]
> 
> I guess I figured since she was telling me about the poor date she went on, she was being open with me that she was trying to date and I honestly just wanted some conversation and I get tired of texting!
> 
> ...


Good luck and I'm really sorry to hear about your PTSD relationship. I think your current approach is smart and with time you may surprise yourself and be able to relax and enjoy a relationship. I recognize your name and know I read some of your stuff before, but don't recall the details.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

I’m too dumb to try and psychoanalise your intentions here op. 
But just for future reference. If a woman rings you late at night complaining about a date that didn’t work out and she accepts your offer to call round,she’s probably looking for more than a chat. Ya know?


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Andy1001 said:


> I’m too dumb to try and psychoanalise your intentions here op.
> But just for future reference. If a woman rings you late at night complaining about a date that didn’t work out and she accepts your offer to call round,she’s probably looking for more than a chat. Ya know?


I guess I am guilty of being a moron on this one. She is only a mile away so I guess our wires got crossed. We both apologized and I guess time will tell if we can recover from that.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

SadSamIAm said:


> Do you realize how horrible this sounds?
> 
> I'll bet dollars to donuts that *she* did not actually say "No"
> 
> WOW


It might be regional; but, in my neck of the woods the word 'no' does not sound like 'I have to go to work tomorrow'.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Whisky Tango Foxtrot. Now saying no makes you a Jerk. Stop the world I want to get off.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Mr. Nail said:


> Whisky Tango Foxtrot. Now saying no makes you a Jerk. Stop the world I want to get off.


No one is saying that. What is being questioned is if he actually said 'no' rather than thinking his actions implied it. And, now he is feeling disrespected. She is a microbiologist - not a mind reader.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Outta here 
- Newly minted JERK


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## SadSamIAm (Oct 29, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> It might be regional; but, in my neck of the woods the word 'no' does not sound like 'I have to go to work tomorrow'.


A bit more than just 'I have to go to work tomorrow'. Sounds to me like he was more direct than you are giving him credit for.

"I guess I gave in and reciprocated with the kissing and touching a bit for a while but she was pretty damn adamant that we sleep together. I told her I needed to get to work tomorrow and really worked to get out the door. I sort of feel like my "no" was not being accepted. To be straight, I was trying to be nice here but I could easily "leave". I just felt like even one "no" should be enough. 

This went on for a while before I finally had to drive a wedge and get gone. It left me wondering WTF I need to do here?"


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I really didn't want to create a hot debate about the word NO.... I think there were some mixed signals and she apparently had a few drinks before I got there so **** happens. I think I just felt like when someone tries to reach in your pants and you stop them, that should be a pretty clear "signal"? 

Never the less, I don't hold any animosity against her. She apologized. I guess I am probably asking the same damn question I have asked before and need to stop posting every one of these. Woman obviously wants to be romantic with me and the line has now been crossed, so I am just trying to figure out if I should even try to work on a friendship here, or roll on. I think I value our talks because she is smart and I don't have to dumb things down for her and enjoy that. 

Obviously I need to examine my behaviors because this keeps happening. My use of the words "just hang out" must be code for something else.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I don’t get it. If a woman jumps a man it’s ok. 
But if the guy is the initiator he’s aggressive or scary or can’t take no for an answer. 

NO means NO. 

I agree with previous posts. If you get chance, just tell her it’s not where you are at right now. If she respects your words, then great.
If not, be thankful you found out early and move on.


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## curious2 (Jan 13, 2013)

Just tell her I’m not interested in anything accept friendship. If that’s ok with her great... if not roll on...if she says she’s ok with just friendship but behaves otherwise... roll on


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

IMO you just need to use more words with your friend. I knows guys aren't as verbal as women but this is a time you need to be if you want to preserve the friendship.

"I appreciate our friendship. You're beautiful and smart and if I were at a place that I wanted to be sexual or romantic you would definitely be at top of my list. I have some work to do on myself because of a past relationship with a woman and until I'm in a better place in my head I want to only have friendships with women. Is that OK with you?"


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

"Just hang out" can mean "We'll see how far we go."


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> I would say with this latest woman, I had high hopes because she is an INTJ personality so she can easily handle my technical mind, but I did NOT expect her romantic outburst at all! As was mentioned above, it seems once I block romantic advances from women, they fade out pretty quickly as they pursue other options.


I'm an INTJ. I recently read that less than 1% of the female population are INTJ and they are often misunderstood. I think you have misunderstood her. Being logical and technical doesn't mean a person lacks emotions or emotional connection. Speaking as an INTJ, I can (and do) behave in a manner contrary to my emotions if my emotions would lead me in the wrong direction, but that doesn't mean I'm not emotional. It just means that I don't always act out of my emotions and I can explain exactly why I do things.

If you were not clear with her, especially as an INTJ, she would have not necessarily picked up on your vague hints, because she takes you at face value. You showed up at night dressed in gym clothes and she was in her pj's. It's possible she saw it as basically the same thing and thought you two were on the same page. She was probably quite surprised by your response.

Also, if she's in her pj's, it's only logical to assume that she's not wearing panties or a bra. I mean who wears pj's and underwear to bed? That would be uncomfortable.

That being said, I think either her aggressive behavior was inappropriate or you led her on and she was confused. I think the latter is the most likely, based on your history and the things you've said about the situation in this post. Did you make it clear that you didn't want to have sex with her? It sounds like you were reciprocating and trying to get away at the same time. She may be smart, but she can't read your mind.

As has been mentioned, most women don't need male friends. They have female friends.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Ursula said:


> I have no idea if you missed out on signs from her or not, but in my world, the word "no" should definitely, 137% be enough, no matter who is saying it.


But did he actually say "no?" It doesn't sound like it. It sounds like he was trying to get away while continuing to engage with her physically.



SadSamIAm said:


> Do you realize how horrible this sounds?
> 
> I'll bet dollars to donuts that *she* did not actually say "No"
> 
> WOW


She cannot read his mind. If he seems to be going along with her and doesn't say "no" and is trying to get away without actually communicating what he wants, she cannot be held responsible. He has said that he doesn't communicate what he wants or what he is thinking. He was making out with her and wanted to leave, but it doesn't sound like he indicated that on the outside, only inside his head.

I'm not sure how this all went down. You should not be expected to think it's okay if someone forces herself on your against your will. I don't want to imply that at all. What I am saying is that you need to be clear. You stated that you said "no" at some point, but it isn't clear when you said "no" or if you were clear that you wanted to stop or what exactly happened. I don't want to place blame and it sounds like it was a traumatic experience for you. I'm sorry about that. I'm posting, because I want to help you see that it's really important that you communicate clearly rather than beating around the bush and trying not to be confrontational.

Are you in therapy? If you have PTSD over your relationship, you can get help for that. You can also get help in learning to communicate in a healthy manner. I get the impression that you're worried about being a jerk, so you avoid communicating clearly, but that actually makes you look like a jerk. It's the "nice guy" syndrome. I'm not saying you are a jerk. Not at all. What I'm saying is that your method isn't working and you need a new perspective.

If you want friends, maybe you would consider joining a meet up group that does something you are interested in. That way you can socialize without getting into a situation where you find yourself in confusion.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

I really cannot put all the blame on her. I think I sort of suck at certain social things. Cynthia is correct that I tend to avoid certain communication because I don't want to offend or seem like a jerk. My honest first thought was she came in for a kiss. I didn't want to just push her off and be brash and figured she just wanted to try that. But she kept taking it further. I think in hindsight, this was totally my fault. I was bored at home and just wanted something to do and probably ignored the breadcrumbs like "omg, I had the worst date", and "I am a little drunk".....

I am the one that offered to go visit her place. I would have to go read what I put in my first post. I was probably a little more shocked at the time. 

I don't even think it was so much that I didn't want to "proceed" it was that I started thinking about all my life screwups and my life started on a shi& course a long time ago when my first ex told me "I'm on the pill, we are good"......right...... I didn't want to have sex, then never do that again and make her feel like there is something wrong with her. 

I have learned though, at least in my experiences, if you deny a woman's advances, it will really confuse her. I suspect most guys are not stuck in their own head like me and just go through with it. 

I think bad things have happened in my life that started with that "late night romp" so I am really trying not to do that.


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## SecondWind (May 10, 2019)

What's an INTJ?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@bobsmith, It's okay to say what you want and what you don't want. Try to do it in a way that is polite, but if it's taken wrong, don't lament over it. This is a skill that is important to learn. In the situation you described you at least were able to leave rather than going through with it to avoid looking bad. That's a step in the right direction, even though it was awkward. You should never feel pressured into having sex. It only adds to your trauma. I'm sorry you're having this problem, but I think you can do something about it and things can get better.



SecondWind said:


> What's an INTJ?


INTJ is a personality type.
Here is a link that explains INTJ. I only read the first few lines and it seemed correct https://www.personalitypage.com/html/INTJ.html


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Try befriending lesbians? Or pretend to be gay...  Seriously, I think you should have some therapy.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

At the very least, try not to sit in close proximity to a woman you just want to be friends with. She won't have an opportunity to lean in for a kiss or put her hand down your pants.

You do have a habit of making bad decisions regarding women.

How about practicing what to say to potential female friends to make your boundaries clear. You can say "I enjoy your company and think we could have some good times as friends. Friendship is all I can offer as I'm not in the market for a relationship. Would that work for you?". If she says 'yes', make sure you don't cross into the FWB territory - no canoodling on the sofa, holding hands, or even a kiss on the cheek.

You can navigate this minefield. You just need to be clear in your communication - verbal and physical.

You can also call the lady (call - not text) and ask to meet her somewhere so you can explain your situation. Good luck.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> My use of the words "just hang out" must be code for something else.


It is. Ever heard of "let's watch Netflix and chill"? It means come over and let's ****.

I'm not being facetious when I say you might want to start perusing the Urban Dictionary.

:smile2:


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## WorkingWife (May 15, 2015)

bobsmith said:


> Obviously I need to examine my behaviors because this keeps happening. My use of the words "just hang out" must be code for something else.


What you're up against is that 97.81% of men will say "I just want to hang out." as a way to get close to her to try to get into her pants. Most men will not pursue platonic friendship's with women. And most women understand this. So just like some people don't understand that "No means No" A lot of women don't understand that when it comes from a man "Just want to hang out" can actually mean "just want to hang out."

IN FACT, something that has long ticked me off is the fact that guys will use these LINES on women like "Just want to talk" "just want to be friends", "just want to XYZ", so obviously they consider the line believable. But then when a woman falls for the line and ends up in a compromising situation, everyone is like "How stupid is she? everyone knows guys never "just want to be friends." (Guys other than you, of course!)


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Don't think you need to bother with trying to figure things out with her seeing as how she likely feels like she just got kicked in the face.


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