# How many times are you turned down after initiating sex?



## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.

In my situation:

I’m Male 42, Wife is 40 (two kids early teens)

Together for 25 years. Married for 17.

She initiates 1-2 a year. I probably get turned down 6 out of 10 times I initiate. 

Sex usually 2-4 times a month.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Me 47 wife 47
Kids 21&23 …. Pretty much out the house but still around a lot
Married 25 and been together since high school

We fell into the mommy/daddy trap while raising the kids and lost sight of our roles as husband and wife. At this point sex was probably only twice a month and relatively unadventurous. Score rate probably 50% and wife never initiated.

The turning point:

I took an inventory of my life one day after a fight with my spouse and decided for me the only option was a marriage of the husband/wife dynamic based on mutual respect and blanketed in passion. The days of the kids being her/our #1 emotional investment needed to close out immediately and I was going to do absolutely anything to make it happen including an immediate divorce. I dropped the nuclear bomb on her and gave her the option of either an awesome marriage or being single. We decided we wanted an awesome marriage and I gave it a 6 month time frame for each of us to get our own chit cleaned up and set back straight. I was not bluffing to her and she knew it. This forum is one of the tools I used to better myself as a proper leader of a husband.

These days sex is pretty insane and way better than anything we did even as teenagers. Sexuality is a comfortable topic in our conversation and there is a near constant sexual tension between us. There is no such thing really as “who initiates” because it just kind of happens. Of course there are many “hard initiated” moments but each of us already know the other is interested before it happens. We do not turn each other down ever as we are both willing to have a go pretty much anytime.

The best things I have ever done to improve our sex life is to have genuine interest and desire in her outside of our sex life.

My wife is a completely reserved conservative angel in public and most people would be shocked if they knew what went on behind our closed doors


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.


I'm 51, my wife is 52, we've had two kids together one is 22 and the other is 19.

We've been together for 26 years and have been married for a bit over 23½ years.

My wife usually initiates sex about a ⅓ of the time. I get turned down, I don't know? Maybe around once every 12-15x that I initiate.

We share sex together usually at around 24-32x a month, yet there are still times when it is a bit more often.

That said, knowing how much sex other couples share, is unlikely to make any difference to how much you and your wife share.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Male 51, wife 62. Married 27, together 31.

I never get turned down.

She initiates several times a week and often several times a day until she gets her way with me.

Our dynamic has changed over the last few years with her becoming the primary pursuer.

If I even look at her wrong these days, she is getting naked and ready for business.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.
> 
> In my situation:
> 
> ...


Roughly weekly sex for 40 year olds that have been together since teenagers with two teenage kids is actually pretty good. 

As far as the 6-10 turn down rate, how and under what circumstances are you trying to initiate?

If you are coming up to her while she is up to her elbows scrubbing the toilet and you ask, "do you wanna have sex?" the problem is on your end and lack of understanding of female responsive desire and lack of seduction skills.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Married 29 years.
sex varies usually about 5-10 times a week but lately things have interfered so maybe 3-5 times a week lately.

I get turned down about 1 out of 10 times. We both initiate.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.
> 
> In my situation:
> 
> ...


Wife n I mid 70s. Married 56 years. Wife’s “initiation” is saying “do you wanna lay down?”, so I am initiator mostly. Never “turned down.” Ever.

Sex every day, some days more than one encounter. We have a routine “schedule”. Barring health issues like Covid.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

We're both 36.
Together 19 years, married 15.
Kids are 8 weeks, 12 months, 21 months, and 6, 11, 13.

The last time she initiated was 8 weeks ago, and only because sex can induce labor and she was over being pregnant.

Since then, nada. Prior to that, no clue when she last initiated. She rarely does nowadays. The number of times we've done anything in the last 2.5 years is probably in the single digits. 

The rejection rate is high, and if I'm not rejected the "quality" and aftermath are awful. So it's not worth it. 

Couldn't even tell you the last time I've kissed her, not sure if it's even happened this year.

So, it's fantastic.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Mr.Married said:


> The best things I have ever done to improve our sex life is to have genuine interest and desire in her outside of our sex life.


I have to say this is true for our marriage too. I've always done this to some degree, but putting more effort into this has made me and her so much happier and that has defiantly carried over into our sex life.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Roughly weekly sex for 40 year olds that have been together since teenagers with two teenage kids is actually pretty good.
> 
> As far as the 6-10 turn down rate, how and under what circumstances are you trying to initiate?
> 
> If you are coming up to her while she is up to her elbows scrubbing the toilet and you ask, "do you wanna have sex?" the problem is on your end and lack of understanding of female responsive desire and lack of seduction skills.


She would never have sex randomly during the day unless we’re been on holiday and had a few drinks.

I’ve tried lots of different ways. Generally the 6 times I get rejected is usually when she’s sober. Our life consists of her simply getting in bed and turning on her front through the week Monday to Thursday (when we’re sober),

Of a weekend if we’ve had a few drinks she’s more receptive. A few weeks ago whilst on holiday I initiated by giving her a back massage to wake up morning time which led to sex. I did the same thing a week later not actually to necessarily lead to sex but after a couple of minutes she said my hands feel dirty (unwashed) even though I’d just washed them minutes earlier. I just got out of bed immediately and got on with my morning.

We can be having a nice night, touchy feely etc whilst on couch then in bed if I make a hand move to certain places her hand will immediately push me away. Tried kissing her and can tell by the fact it’s just a peck in return when she’s not interested. Suggested scheduled sex said she couldn’t think of anything worse.

It’s certainly an eye opening seeing how active some people are on here looking at these replies!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I am 51, she is 54, married 32 years, together 35. Two kids, 24 and 22. The older is completely out of the house and the younger is finishing up college so he is here part time.

We average 4-5x per week, sometimes more, sometimes less. My wife initiates more that I used to realize. Usually it is subtle and triggers me to make a move on here without even realizing what she did. She is tricky like that, lol. On occasion she is more straight forward about it. Earlier this week we were watching TV on the sofa. Next thing I know she straddles me, starts kissing me passionately and tells me to take her to bed. So I picked her up and carried her off to the bedroom. She initiates in a straight forward manner like that only a couple times a month. 

9 out of 10 times she will be receptive to my initiation, but that is partially due to me knowing when the odds are very low, so I don't bother. In those instances I'll often do something somewhat intimate involving touch, but not sexual. Like randomly massaging her feet or her shoulders. Or scratching her back, head or legs. She loves that stuff and I know it relaxes her, so I enjoy doing it for her with no strings attached. Some times though, doing that will lead to her initiating, which of course is fine by me. 

We had sex less when the kids were younger. It wouldn't happen much during the week due to her just being exhausted. We would still manage to find time at least 1 day during the week, typically in the morning when we woke up. We probably averaged 2-3 time a week.


We've had lulls in our sex life, but there was almost always an identifiable cause, either medical or something external. to our marriage, like work, kid's schedules, etc. Luckily they've all had solutions. The bottom line is we are into each other sexually. I wish I could put that attraction in a bottle and sell it. It seems to come so easy to us. I often have a hard time understanding dead bedroom stories and how they got there. They usually sound like a loveless relationship lacking in any kind of passion, desire, lust and intimacy. That would feel like an empty marriage to me. Even on days we don't have sex, there are always multiple interaction between us every single day that signals we are attracted to each other. My wife grabs my junk at least a few time every day, lol. We kiss and hug all the time. It has been like that the whole 35 years we've been together. I don't understand how others aren't able to keep that spark and passion alive. I really wish everyone were able to.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> She would never have sex randomly during the day unless we’re been on holiday and had a few drinks.
> 
> I’ve tried lots of different ways. Generally the 6 times I get rejected is usually when she’s sober. Our life consists of her simply getting in bed and turning on her front through the week Monday to Thursday (when we’re sober),
> 
> ...


Has she ever been different than this or is this the norm? At 40 she really should be approaching a sexual renaissance. Something has caused your wife to lose sexual attraction and desire for you. Even if she isn't interested in sex she shouldn't be pushing away physical contact. 

And complaining about a back rub!? That is kind of sad. Even with rough hands I would think a wife would appreciate the thought. In practical terms, I suggest massage oil. My hands quickly become irritated when I give a massage or a rub without some kind of lubrication. I keep a pump bottle of massage oil on my night stand so it is always handy.


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## WhateverMan (4 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.
> 
> In my situation:
> 
> ...


2-4 time a month… what a dream!

I’m 20 yrs in, been rejected continually for the entire 20 prob 90% of the time. Wife stresses about EVERYTHING.. prob loses sleep wondering if the sun will rise. Which means she’s never in the mood. Now, I just don’t care, I stay cause I want to live in the same house as my kids. So now I have a female room mate.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Has she ever been different than this or is this the norm? At 40 she really should be approaching a sexual renaissance. Something has caused your wife to lose sexual attraction and desire for you. Even if she isn't interested in sex she shouldn't be pushing away physical contact.
> 
> And complaining about a back rub!? That is kind of sad. Even with rough hands I would think a wife would appreciate the thought. In practical terms, I suggest massage oil. My hands quickly become irritated when I give a massage or a rub without some kind of lubrication. I keep a pump bottle of massage oil on my night stand so it is always handy.


No she wasn’t always like this. It’s probably been since we had kids. Ahh I remember the good times when we used to lie in bed and she’d start playing with me. That was 15 plus years ago now. She said in the past I was younger then I shouldn’t expect her to be the same woman.

Your wife seems like an absolute dream! Kudos to both of you.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> No she wasn’t always like this. It’s probably been since we had kids. Ahh I remember the good times when we used to lie in bed and she’d start playing with me. That was 15 plus years ago now. She said in the past I was younger then I shouldn’t expect her to be the same woman.
> 
> Your wife seems like an absolute dream! Kudos to both of you.


Your wife is right, she isn't the same woman, but why is that an okay excuse to no longer be attracted to your husband? I think at the core of a marriage is the physical attraction to each other. Sadly, I bet she would rediscover her sexuality with a new man. I don't mean that as a knock on you, but it seems far too common that a woman loses attraction for their SO, but they actually haven't lost their attraction/sexuality in general.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

bobert said:


> We're both 36.
> Together 19 years, married 15.
> Kids are 8 weeks, 12 months, 21 months, and 6, 11, 13.
> 
> ...


With that kid lineup I can't say I'm shocked. Just reading those ages makes me want to crawl into a cave and sleep. You are some fertile folks.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

bobert said:


> We're both 36.
> Together 19 years, married 15.
> Kids are 8 weeks, 12 months, 21 months, and 6, 11, 13.
> 
> ...


Sounds like a lovely marriage


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

bobert said:


> We're both 36.
> Together 19 years, married 15.
> Kids are 8 weeks, 12 months, 21 months, and 6, 11, 13.
> 
> ...


why did you continue to have kids with her?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

They have you in a corner bobert.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

happyhusband0005 said:


> With that kid lineup I can't say I'm shocked. Just reading those ages makes me want to crawl into a cave and sleep. You are some fertile folks.


That's not the excuse, IMO.

Fertile... Yeah, now, apparently. Prior to the youngest three she had 6 (give or take) miscarriages then two years of trying and fertility meds and IUIs that didn't work. Go figure.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

BIL310 said:


> why did you continue to have kids with her?


Stupidity. I'm not known for making good life decisions. 

I convinced her to have our fourth in the moment, because I thought it would make me stay with her. So, basically baby trapping myself.

Then I wasn't careful one time and didn't think about pregnancy at all.

Had a vasectomy, and a week later found out about #5. 

Didn't do the semen analysis because we weren't having sex anyway. Eventually got around to it and was told the chance of pregnancy was low, get tested in a few months, and I might want to use a backup method just in case. I misinterpreted that as "nothing is 100% effective" rather than "it didn't work".

Found out the hard way that open-ended vasectomies don't accomplish anything but a very low, but not low enough, sperm count and mutilated nuts for a second time.

So yeah, stupidity.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> We can be having a nice night, touchy feely etc whilst on couch then in bed if I make a hand move to certain places her hand will immediately push me away. Tried kissing her and can tell by the fact it’s just a peck in return when she’s not interested. Suggested scheduled sex said she couldn’t think of anything worse.


Seems she is very resentful for some reason. M-Th consists of her climbing in bed and rolling onto her stomach?!? What is that all about? The message IMO is OK, this is what I have to put up with. And she has to have some alcohol to be much interested at all? Is she just "putting up" with your initiating? So wouldn't expect she would ever initiate.

As I am sure you know, in general if a woman isn't emotionally bonded and feeling safe, she isn't going to want a physical relationship. So something at the core of your relationship is badly damaged. Has something happened in the past that would explain why? Was your relationship ever a happy one, say right after marrying?

Oh, and her using having kids as an excuse is IMO bogus. Yeah, maybe the hormones and the added workload foul things up for some. If it is workload, you can hire a nanny/housekeeper. If it is hormones she can see her gyn. Both are way cheaper than a divorce. It never slowed my wife down at all, we had four. She would be after me before the Doctor imposed hiatus, saying "oh please! it will be ok!" Yeah come to think of it, she DID initiate after having kids.

Would she consider marriage counseling from a counselor licensed to deal with sexual issues?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

bobert said:


> That's not the excuse, IMO.
> 
> Fertile... Yeah, now, apparently. Prior to the youngest three she had 6 (give or take) miscarriages then two years of trying and fertility meds and IUIs that didn't work. Go figure.


Thats interesting. Similar thing with my mother. She had me and my older sister. The 5 years and 4-5 miscarriages then my younger sister.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

OK. Found it! I keep meaning to read older discussions OP started. Back in 2019 you had an affair? And your wife eventually agreed to reconcile? That right there is IMO the root cause of all of your sexual troubles now. I didnt go back to read all of the details from back then, or why you all decided to get back together. Maybe she just felt trapped and stayed with you for that reason. Maybe you cheated on her because of bad sex life ( horrible "excuse" BTW ).

Anyway, you are 3 years into "R" attempt and it doesn't seem to be working. Sorry


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

I read through your first thread in 2017. It reads actually worse than this one. You mentioned then there was essentially no intimacy and that she was stressed from her job and kids. She had to drink to loosen up with you then. I guess your affair(s) ( saw mention of two women during cursory glance ) in 2018/19 were your way of coping with a dead bedroom. Those didn't help your cause at all. 

Anyway, if we don't resolve issues and just go on sweeping them under a rug, we just end up with a bigger mess and more years wasted. You are now another 5 years older and no better off. Actually worse off because of your infidelity. You have some major work ahead to repair your relationship, if it can even be accomplished.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> She would never have sex randomly during the day unless we’re been on holiday and had a few drinks.
> 
> I’ve tried lots of different ways. Generally the 6 times I get rejected is usually when she’s sober. Our life consists of her simply getting in bed and turning on her front through the week Monday to Thursday (when we’re sober),
> 
> ...


Only having sex approx once a month in fertile women is called ovulation sex. It's often due to a lack of actual attraction and desire for her partner but her body is essentially telling her she should be having sex. 

Needing to drink in order to have sex is often a sign of actual disdain, disgust and resentment - but not ready to divorce yet (usually due to minor children in the home)


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

If you’re getting turned down by your wife more than 20% of the time, you’re either doing it wrong, or your timing is totally inept, or she’s simply isn’t sexually attracted to you and doesn’t desire you as a man.

And all of which are within your control to some extent. Or at least the actions which can improve your situation are.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

@BIL310 you know not to pick on you but you are like very very very many of the people that show up here and want advice on how to fix your problems. That part is completely understandable. However what is not understandable is how they think they can find some type of solution here after there marriage has been smashed to bits eons ago. Like all those others you are too late …….way too late to fix much of anything. No phoenix will rise from the ashes of a burned down marriage…..EVER.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Mr.Married said:


> @BIL310 you know not to pick on you but you are like very very very many of the people that show up here and want advice on how to fix your problems. That part is completely understandable. However what is not understandable is how they think they can find some type of solution here after there marriage has been smashed to bits eons ago. Like all those others you are too late …….way too late to fix much of anything. No phoenix will rise from the ashes of a burned down marriage…..EVER.


A couple of TAMmer dudes did turn it around.

It takes some work and commitment though and, like the other thread is talking about, a lot of men don't like their situation but damn few seem to do anything constructive about it.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BIL310 said:


> .....I’m Male 42, *Wife is 40 (two kids early teens)*
> 
> Together for 25 years. Married for 17.
> 
> ...





BIL310 said:


> She would never have sex randomly during the day unless we’re been on holiday and had a few drinks.
> 
> I’ve tried lots of different ways. Generally the 6 times I get rejected is usually when she’s sober. Our life consists of her simply getting in bed and turning on her front through the week Monday to Thursday (when we’re sober),
> 
> ...





BIL310 said:


> No* she wasn’t always like this*. *It’s probably been since we had kids*. Ahh I remember the good times when we used to lie in bed and she’d start playing with me. That was 15 plus years ago now. She said in the past I was younger then I shouldn’t expect her to be the same woman.
> 
> Your wife seems like an absolute dream! Kudos to both of you.


First off you need to talk to her (marriage counseling would help) about what the two of you want to do when the kids leave home? What do you want to do then and in your retirement years. Based on your past affairs, the answers might be she wants to divorce you. Don't be surprised if she hasn't been sticking around for the kids and wants out as soon as they leave the nest.

Let me tell you as the high libido partner of a low libido partner, if sex is important to you, then don't worry about who initiates. Yes, I understand the need to feel sexually desired and have my partner initiate, but I also have come to terms with the fact that I want sex more than she does. If I am to be happy, and sex is important to me then, I need to initiate, when my wife doesn't, otherwise it just isn't going to be happen. So sit yourself down in front of the mirror and ask yourself if being miserable because of the lack of sex is really better than being upset your wife doesn't initiate more often. If it is the rejection that really gets to you, ask yourself which hurts more the rejection or the lack of sex? 

I think you and your wife need some serious marriage counseling to deal with past problems.

Good luck.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Read his earlier posts. You will see this is a problem has a lot of layers to it going back at least 5 years.


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## woodyh (Oct 23, 2015)

I used to get turned down a lot. I would ask maybe 5 times and get sex 1 or 2 times. Best thing we did was agree to have sex two times a week, once during the week and once on the weekend. Wife agreed to do that IF I wouldn't ask for more sex than that. That means no hinting, asking or begging for more sex, two times and that is it. We have done this for a long time. I don't have to wonder if I'll get sex, I know I am getting it twice.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

The thread has gone off in a direction I didn’t want. I appreciate the responses however I wasn’t asking for advice (again) on how to fix my issues I was simply curious as to how other marriages are working in terms of initiating, frequency etc hence the wording my original post. 

Funnily enough. She actually initiated last night and also agreed to a one for her. One for me and for one for each other going forward . Meaning she initiates once a week, I do and then Sunday is our scheduled day. Although again this was agreed after a couple of glasses of wine.


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

BIL310 said:


> No she wasn’t always like this. It’s probably been since we had kids. Ahh I remember the good times when we used to lie in bed and she’d start playing with me. That was 15 plus years ago now. She said in the past I was younger then I shouldn’t expect her to be the same woman.


A lot of women will initiate when they want to get pregnant. Later in life, they use the kids as the excuse NOT to have sex. They claim they're tired all the time and just want to go to bed. They're forgetting that sex can happen in the morning when they're not so tired. Waking up fifteen minutes earlier is not a big sacrifice.

What you're experiencing is very common. Sex means much more to you than it does to her. The very few men who have been able to solve the problem seem to show up on forums like this one. The rest suffer in isolation.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I am 51, she is 54, married 32 years, together 35. Two kids, 24 and 22. The older is completely out of the house and the younger is finishing up college so he is here part time.
> 
> We average 4-5x per week, sometimes more, sometimes less. My wife initiates more that I used to realize. Usually it is subtle and triggers me to make a move on here without even realizing what she did. She is tricky like that, lol. On occasion she is more straight forward about it. Earlier this week we were watching TV on the sofa. Next thing I know she straddles me, starts kissing me passionately and tells me to take her to bed. So I picked her up and carried her off to the bedroom. She initiates in a straight forward manner like that only a couple times a month.
> 
> ...


We are on same page! My wife is 54, I am 50. 2 boys, 22, 17. 22 is married and out, 17 is Jr. with enough credit to graduate if he takes 1 class in summer. But he will take next year along with several college level classes. 
Sex 5-6 nights a week. One day last fall I brought up the 30 day challenge. Sex every day for 30 days, she says let's make it an anniversary challenge! Sex daily till anniversary...in May! So a 180 day challenge! I'm UP for that!

The bed is a "No Clothes Zone" because Daddy said! We sleep in buff, so BR door is locked nightly of course. Physical intimacy is now just a part of our nightly routine, I guess you could say it is a toss up as to who initiated. It is now as natural as fluffing your pillow. If I think she is tired or hurting, I will not initiate, but she will 99% of those times. Heck she has even initiated when passing a kidney stone. Says she just wants to forget about it for a while, maybe a good pounding will knock it loose, get it moving faster.

It would traumatize our sheltered 17 yr old son to walk in on mom and dad, hence the BR door locked nightly. Wouldn't know why, he is always commenting about us "making out" in the kitchen all the time. 😜

When kids were young and sex dwindled to 3x month, I was ready to punch out and leave, until I read NMMNG and realized where I was deficient and making her less attracted to me. Changed my conflict avoidant, yes dear FOO issue personality and it lit a fire in her.

Also fact she can walk by and I am ready and willing. She says that is a major turn on for her, that she has that effect on me and that I am so hungry for her, makes her feel sexy and desired.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Divinely Favored said:


> We are on same page! My wife is 54, I am 50. 2 boys, 22, 17. 22 is married and out, 17 is Jr. with enough credit to graduate if he takes 1 class in summer. But he will take next year along with several college level classes.
> Sex 5-6 nights a week. One day last fall I brought up the 30 day challenge. Sex every day for 30 days, she says let's make it an anniversary challenge! Sex daily till anniversary...in May! So a 180 day challenge! I'm UP for that!
> 
> The bed is a "No Clothes Zone" because Daddy said! We sleep in buff, so BR door is locked nightly of course. Physical intimacy is now just a part of our nightly routine, I guess you could say it is a toss up as to who initiated. It is now as natural as fluffing your pillow. If I think she is tired or hurting, I will not initiate, but she will 99% of those times. Heck she has even initiated when passing a kidney stone. Says she just wants to forget about it for a while, maybe a good pounding will knock it loose, get it moving faster.
> ...


I’ve tried implementing what’s in the NMMNG book and when I try to be more assertive I get a snarky remark of “you just want it all the time” and “why must you grope me every time we hug” which isn’t true, I only do that every now and then. 

Nothing I’ve tried has lit a fire in her. I’ve been working out more, trying to get into better shape, tried being more assertive, tried planning more of our family things so that she’s not always making decisions. I even tried telling her what I want to see her wear in the bedroom and she pushes back saying she doesn’t know how or it feels silly to her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I never turn myself down!

Now excuse me while I practice video game/anime combat moves while I dominate myself sexually because I'm dominant that way.😋

Sorry OP. Just having a little fun.😉


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Me 61, she 63. Married 28. Together 31.

She has initiated once in the past 22 years, but did suggest a Sunday guarantee which we both enjoy. On a twice-a-week pace this year. I am batting about .500 when I try to initiate Mon-Sat. Used to bat .400


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried implementing what’s in the NMMNG book and when I try to be more assertive I get a snarky remark of “you just want it all the time” and “why must you grope me every time we hug” which isn’t true, I only do that every now and then.
> 
> Nothing I’ve tried has lit a fire in her. I’ve been working out more, trying to get into better shape, tried being more assertive, tried planning more of our family things so that she’s not always making decisions. I even tried telling her what I want to see her wear in the bedroom and she pushes back saying she doesn’t know how or it feels silly to her.


When she says "you just want it all the time", say something like "yep, you would too if you you had a wife as sexy as mine" or "of course I do when I have this sexy wife right in front of me." Own the fact that you are sexually attracted to her, as you should be.

Same for the hugging. Of course you want to intimately touch your wife. I finish almost every hug with a little squeeze of her but. Again, own your sexual attraction to her. Make it part of your everyday life.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

My Wife turned me down yesterday afternoon. Her excuse... "We can't have sex in the produce department of the grocery store". I'm speaking to an attorney tomorrow.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried implementing what’s in the NMMNG book and when I try to be more assertive I get a snarky remark of “you just want it all the time” and “why must you grope me every time we hug” which isn’t true, I only do that every now and then.
> 
> Nothing I’ve tried has lit a fire in her. I’ve been working out more, trying to get into better shape, tried being more assertive, tried planning more of our family things so that she’s not always making decisions. I even tried telling her what I want to see her wear in the bedroom and she pushes back saying she doesn’t know how or it feels silly to her.


It can’t be fixed. Sorry but you have nothing to work with.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

woodyh said:


> I used to get turned down a lot. I would ask maybe 5 times and get sex 1 or 2 times. Best thing we did was agree to have sex two times a week, once during the week and once on the weekend. Wife agreed to do that IF I wouldn't ask for more sex than that. That means no hinting, asking or begging for more sex, two times and that is it. We have done this for a long time. I don't have to wonder if I'll get sex, I know I am getting it twice.


I could never do this. Not sure how you have made that work.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

leftfield said:


> I could never do this. Not sure how you have made that work.


Sounds like twice a week is how he made it work 😉


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> She initiates 1-2 a year. I probably get turned down 6 out of 10 times I initiate.
> Sex usually 2-4 times a month.


My wife is younger. Been married about 8 years with no kids and sex is for the most part every day. It could be either me or her that pass on that day depending on circumstance, but passing on sex only happens 1-2x a month maybe. There's a lot less stress on initiation since we have an understanding that sex is just a standing invitation.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

I'm 48, wife 38, kids 8, 13 and 15

average 2x per week, lately it's been 3-4x per week since June 24th of this year. Sunday and Thursday is our scheduled nights so nobody ever initiates. The other times it's about 50/50.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> It can’t be fixed. Sorry but you have nothing to work with.


He should cut his loses and make plans.


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## Mybabysgotit (Jul 1, 2019)

bobert said:


> We're both 36.
> Together 19 years, married 15.
> Kids are 8 weeks, 12 months, 21 months, and 6, 11, 13.
> 
> ...


So besides that Ms. Lincoln, how was the play?

In all reality, you have so many kids, your wife is probably stressed to the hilt. - 6 kids? that's a whole house of craziness. My house is nuts with 5 people in it.


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## uwe.blab (May 2, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Me 47 wife 47
> Kids 21&23 …. Pretty much out the house but still around a lot
> Married 25 and been together since high school
> 
> ...


Wait, we need a post on exactly how you made this happen. How long ago was that and how old were the kids at the time? Were you resigned to getting a divorce or did you think it could actually be great?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

uwe.blab said:


> Wait, we need a post on exactly how you made this happen. How long ago was that and how old were the kids at the time? Were you resigned to getting a divorce or did you think it could actually be great?


About 6 years ago…

15 and 17 I reckon

I knew that it could be great because it once already was pretty dang good before the kids came along.

I didn’t care so much about weather it would be great or get a divorce. What I did know is that I had a hell of a lot to offer and I could find a great marriage on my own because I would settle for nothing less. I wanted that woman to be my current wife but I wasn’t going to let that influence me at all…. that was on her to make happ


I showed up at TAM after the fact but found it confirmed a lot of what I had figured out on my own after 32 books and countless hours researching sexuality and male/female relationship dynamics and taking every single psychological test I could find to learn as much about myself that I could. I worked on MYSELF and it was HER job to work on HERSELF

The bottom line is we both wanted it and fixed our own accountabilities. Secondly our marriage was never terrible and neither of us ever did anything to burn it down but I refused to carry on with a roommate mommy and live as strictly my children’s daddy.

Moral of the story:

Never give yourself away to someone else’s life.
Know what you want.
Fear nothing
Just shut up and do the f’n work


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

woodyh said:


> Wife agreed to do that IF I wouldn't ask for more sex than that. That means no hinting, asking or begging for more sex, two times and that is it. We have done this for a long time. I don't have to wonder if I'll get sex, I know I am getting it twice


If my wife said that we’d be done. That’s a string along if I ever heard one…


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Mr.Married said:


> The turning point:
> 
> I took an inventory of my life one day after a fight with my spouse and decided for me the only option was a marriage of the husband/wife dynamic based on mutual respect and blanketed in passion. The days of the kids being her/our #1 emotional investment needed to close out immediately and I was going to do absolutely anything to make it happen including an immediate divorce. I dropped the nuclear bomb on her and gave her the option of either an awesome marriage or being single. We decided we wanted an awesome marriage and I gave it a 6 month time frame for each of us to get our own chit cleaned up and set back straight. I was not bluffing to her and she knew it. This forum is one of the tools I used to better myself as a proper leader of a husband.
> 
> ...


This is a great story. It is similar but not exact to how I have the sex life that I currently do with my wife. I told my wife that I was tired of playing the initiation game and that we should just consider that sex was always going to happen every day. I was not willing to live in a marriage where sex was infrequent or stressed over. She was receptive and the rest is history.

She was a bit nervous about being able to keep up in the beginning, but that worry faded and her sexuality has grown a lot. The benefits of frequent sex have been tremendous to our relationship and individually as well.

It's really simple. Infrequent sex *creates *problems in a marriage and on the individual level. Premature, less satisfaction, insecurities, body image problems, irritability, and the list goes on. Frequent sex solves all those problems and more. The return on investment for taking the time to have great sex is the same day that you have it. Don't settle to spend your life in a marriage with infrequent sex.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried implementing what’s in the NMMNG book and when I try to be more assertive I get a snarky remark of “you just want it all the time” and “why must you grope me every time we hug” which isn’t true, I only do that every now and then.
> 
> Nothing I’ve tried has lit a fire in her. I’ve been working out more, trying to get into better shape, tried being more assertive, tried planning more of our family things so that she’s not always making decisions. I even tried telling her what I want to see her wear in the bedroom and she pushes back saying she doesn’t know how or it feels silly to her.


1. NNMNG it’s not about getting more sex from your wife, it’s about making you a stronger man. It’s about breaking your covert contracts and codependency‘s.
2. You can’t “try” to be more assertive. It’s not an act, you either are or you’re not. You choose to be more assertive, you don’t “try“ to be more assertive.
3. These aren’t tricks or techniques, it’s a core change in you, and an improved way of operating in the world. You can’t pretend, you need to become.
It’s about you, regardless of whether she chooses to come around or not.
Basically, she doesn’t believe you yet. She doesn’t believe that you’re strong, assertive man.
4. It takes time. You are changing/improving yourself as a man. It takes time to do, and it takes time for her to believe that it’s a real/permanent change.
That’s why it’s a 6-12 month process.
And there’s probably a 50-50 chance that she never comes around. But either way you’re better off as a stronger, more confident and assertive man.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

woodyh said:


> I used to get turned down a lot. I would ask maybe 5 times and get sex 1 or 2 times. Best thing we did was agree to have sex two times a week, once during the week and once on the weekend. Wife agreed to do that IF I wouldn't ask for more sex than that. That means no hinting, asking or begging for more sex, two times and that is it. We have done this for a long time. I don't have to wonder if I'll get sex, I know I am getting it twice.


1. You don’t ask or beg for sex, you flirt, play and initiate.
2. So basically, you sacrificed any chance for a fun, flirty, playful marriage where you’re wife might actually WANT to have sex with you, for twice a week duty sex. Nice job.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Numb26 said:


> He should cut his loses and make plans.


Apparently he doesn’t want to hear that, he just wants to analyze everyone’s stats.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> 1. You don’t ask or beg for sex, you flirt, play and initiate.


What do you do when she comes back and says you only have certain behaviors of flirting when you want sex? I've broken through more boundaries faster with frequent sex than I did following any of the alpha rulesets and guides in the past. Sex doesn't feel duty, but not every day has to be fireworks. Also no pressure on her to perform.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Loves Coffee said:


> What do you do when she comes back and says you only have certain behaviors of flirting when you want sex? I've broken through more boundaries faster with frequent sex than I did following any of the alpha rulesets and guides in the past. Sex doesn't feel duty, but not every day has to be fireworks. Also no pressure on her to perform.


You flirt with her regularly, sometimes sexual and sometimes not, when you want sex and when you don’t. 
Women want to play the game, they want playful banter and anticipation, whether it materializes every time or not.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> You flirt with her regularly, sometimes sexual and sometimes not, when you want sex and when you don’t.
> Women want to play the game, they want playful banter and anticipation, whether it materializes every time or not.


I'll check the book out. I'm always open to more information and improvement.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Loves Coffee said:


> I'll check the book out. I'm always open to more information and improvement.


You want a relevant and highly recommended book on this topic, read Married man’s sex life primer by Athol Kay


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Mybabysgotit said:


> So besides that Ms. Lincoln, how was the play?
> 
> In all reality, you have so many kids, your wife is probably stressed to the hilt. - 6 kids? that's a whole house of craziness. My house is nuts with 5 people in it.


What is amazing is when I was a little kid, we lived in a town with a high catholic population. At least 5, 6, 7, even 8 kids was not unusual in a family. Don't recall any of the mothers being stressed. In fact they all seemed pretty happy, chattering over the back fences with one another while they hung up the laundry on the line. They would put the older kids to shepherd the younger ones and was no big deal. In my family history ( though we weren't catholic ) there were families with 10, 12, 14 kids. Guess the men really liked their wives and visa versa.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

My wife has made the comment that I’d want sex every day if I could and I told her no, just frequent sex say 3 times a week. 

I’ve been making changes, being more assertive, etc and honestly I don’t give a crap anymore what she thinks. She did say something to me last week that was interesting; she’s feeling insecure for the first time that I can recall. She said she has to try harder because she knows if another woman gives me attention she’s not giving me, I’ll be tempted. It’s the only time she’s said it and hasn’t done anything since.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> You want a relevant and highly recommended book on this topic, read Married man’s sex life primer by Athol Kay


Ok, so I was going to try to be flirty and initiate tonight, but my wife got off work and came into the kitchen "I'm done for the day! (celebrating) Want to go have sex?"  I guess I'll have to try tomorrow. We did flirt in bed, though. I'll check the book out.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

That’s what you want GoodDad. She should be wondering about other women if she doesn’t step up to the plate.

Initially my wife was like oh I can’t have sex every day! You want sex everyday? Me: no, once or twice a day ideally. Just say what you want and don’t worry about her reaction to it.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s what you want GoodDad. She should be wondering about other women if she doesn’t step up to the plate.
> 
> Initially my wife was like oh I can’t have sex every day! You want sex everyday? Me: no, once or twice a day ideally. Just say what you want and don’t worry about her reaction to it.


That's the way. Don't sell yourself short at the start. Shoot for the moon. You don't get what you don't ask for.


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## DCW (6 mo ago)

woodyh said:


> I used to get turned down a lot. I would ask maybe 5 times and get sex 1 or 2 times. Best thing we did was agree to have sex two times a week, once during the week and once on the weekend. Wife agreed to do that IF I wouldn't ask for more sex than that. That means no hinting, asking or begging for more sex, two times and that is it. We have done this for a long time. I don't have to wonder if I'll get sex, I know I am getting it twice.


Interesting compromise. Genuinely curious…How often were you asking when asking 5 getting 1 or 2 (was it 5 times a week, 5 times a month)?
How long have you been doing it that way? Has it changed since you started (is she better, is she more into it)?


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## snowbum (Dec 14, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> That’s what you want GoodDad. She should be wondering about other women if she doesn’t step up to the plate.
> 
> Initially my wife was like oh I can’t have sex every day! You want sex everyday? Me: no, once or twice a day ideally. Just say what you want and don’t worry about her reaction to it.


How nice you want wives scared you’ll cheat on them, fabulous.All about you.
Saying this as someone who has sex 4-5 times a week( mutual) and find it ridiculous ic the guy isn’t satisfied the good to isloiking elsewhere. Geez


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## karmagoround (Aug 27, 2021)

Start packing bags and get serious about divorce. If that doesn't improve her libido, then follow through with the divorce. 
A passionless marriage can lead to problems... like infidelity.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> How nice you want wives scared you’ll cheat on them, fabulous.All about you.
> Saying this as someone who has sex 4-5 times a week( mutual) and find it ridiculous ic the guy isn’t satisfied the good to isloiking elsewhere. Geez


If I was getting it 4-5 times a week there would be no reason for anyone to say this to their spouse. I would love 4-5 times a week!


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

snowbum said:


> How nice you want wives scared you’ll cheat on them, fabulous.All about you.
> Saying this as someone who has sex 4-5 times a week( mutual) and find it ridiculous ic the guy isn’t satisfied the good to isloiking elsewhere. Geez


I didn't even pick up on that part of the comment until you pointed it out. I need to start reading more slowly lol.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I’ve also told my wife that she knows I would not cheat on her as I don’t believe in doing that and she knows it. I also said though that if other ladies find me attractive I would find that very flattering and confirmation that the changes I’m making are worth the work I’m putting in. She has acknowledged that I am not happy with our sex life and knows she’s vulnerable there.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Apparently he doesn’t want to hear that, he just wants to analyze everyone’s stats.


Not true. It’s complicated and I just can’t cut and run.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife has made the comment that I’d want sex every day if I could and I told her no, just frequent sex say 3 times a week.
> 
> I’ve been making changes, being more assertive, etc and honestly I don’t give a crap anymore what she thinks. She did say something to me last week that was interesting; she’s feeling insecure for the first time that I can recall. She said she has to try harder because she knows if another woman gives me attention she’s not giving me, I’ll be tempted. It’s the only time she’s said it and hasn’t done anything since.


I don't know how you define assertive, but nothing in your posts about how you interact with your wife sounds assertive at all. You sound like you defend yourself alot from HER assertiveness, and you sound like you rush to reassure her when she wants you to. How do you advocate for your own needs in your marriage (sexual and otherwise)? How do you set up boundaries and expectations for yourself with her, and how do you respond when she refuses to meet them? 

Assertiveness is not a list of things you do...it's an attitude of self-awareness and self-care and most importantly, SELF-RESPECT. It's knowing your value and having standards based on that. It's about expecting to be in a relationship that meets your needs, and not being afraid to end that relationship when it doesn't.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Not true. It’s complicated and I just can’t cut and run.


You call leaving "cut and run", but you've been unhappy for years and years....what have you done to simplify the complications so you can actually create more options for yourself?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

snowbum said:


> How nice you want wives scared you’ll cheat on them, fabulous.All about you.
> Saying this as someone who has sex 4-5 times a week( mutual) and find it ridiculous ic the guy isn’t satisfied the good to isloiking elsewhere. Geez


It isn't about being scared that you will cheat, not directly anyway. It is called preselection. When a women sees other women showing interest in a man that man becomes more desirable. That isn't a knock on women, it is just a biological response. 

It is logical really. If you improve yourself to the point that other women start to take notice, your wife will notice those improvement as well as the additional attention from other women. The response is, well maybe this guy really is a catch and I should try to keep him happy/happier.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> She said she has to try harder because she knows if another woman gives me attention she’s not giving me, I’ll be tempted. It’s the only time she’s said it and hasn’t done anything since.


Good! You not giving a crap what she thinks is breaking through. Next time she says something similar just tell her talk is cheap.

She is 100% right. If she doesnt want you there are other women who will. She can easily end up alone. Which is her problem not yours


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It isn't about being scared that you will cheat, not directly anyway. It is called preselection. When a women sees other women showing interest in a man that man becomes more desirable. That isn't a knock on women, it is just a biological response.
> 
> It is logical really. If you improve yourself to the point that other women start to take notice, your wife will notice those improvement as well as the additional attention from other women. The response is, well maybe this guy really is a catch and I should try to keep him happy/happier.


@snowbum this is the real world. It's an unassailable fact.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> It is logical really. If you improve yourself to the point that other women start to take notice, your wife will notice those improvement as well as the additional attention from other women. The response is, well maybe this guy really is a catch and I should try to keep him happy/happier.


If this is held as fact, shouldn't the reverse be true for women? Therefore, if a married woman wants to improve her looks, shouldn't it be assumed that she's doing it for her husband rather than for other men, if men working on their appearance should be assumed to be motivated by a desire to look better for his wife? I'm not saying that men or women whose spouses suddenly change their appearance shouldn't keep an ear to the ground and be aware, but if we're going to assume good intentions in men shouldn't we do the same for women?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If this is held as fact, shouldn't the reverse be true for women? Therefore, if a married woman wants to improve her looks, shouldn't it be assumed that she's doing it for her husband rather than for other men, if men working on their appearance should be assumed to be motivated by a desire to look better for his wife? I'm not saying that men or women whose spouses suddenly change their appearance shouldn't keep an ear to the ground and be aware, but if we're going to assume good intentions in men shouldn't we do the same for women?


Very good point. It should be true, yes. I would hope that all self improvement is done for yourself, with your spouse in mind as a side beneficiary.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If this is held as fact, shouldn't the reverse be true for women? Therefore, if a married woman wants to improve her looks, shouldn't it be assumed that she's doing it for her husband rather than for other men, if men working on their appearance should be assumed to be motivated by a desire to look better for his wife? I'm not saying that men or women whose spouses suddenly change their appearance shouldn't keep an ear to the ground and be aware, but if we're going to assume good intentions in men shouldn't we do the same for women?


Is this for that boob thread?  

I agree that love always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I hope that you are always treated in this fair and trusting manner.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

snowbum said:


> How nice you want wives scared you’ll cheat on them, fabulous.All about you.
> Saying this as someone who has sex 4-5 times a week( mutual) and find it ridiculous ic the guy isn’t satisfied the good to isloiking elsewhere. Geez


Of course it’s about me. I need something from the relationship and I’m not getting it. She should be concerned about what happens if that continues, or laugh about it and tell me to move on.

It doesn’t mean cheating in my case but it does mean leaving and then finding new people to have a sexual relationship with who actually want to have sex.

It’s like any need in a relationship. If one person isn’t meeting it and it’s important enough it makes sense for the relationship to end.


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## maskeddreamer01 (4 mo ago)

I find it fascinating that in many of the relationships/marriages that there seems to be asking, bordering begging/pleading. I wonder why this happens vs the spontaneity and letting things happen naturally. Is it that ppl just get too damned comfortable with each other and it allows them to stop trying? Generally relationships go through ups/down or cycles, whatever you want to call it. It is when there is a major shift that differs from the norm that is the cause for alarm. About 4 years ago we had our issues and we were going through a low cycle. I actually started a log/tracker to review a daily/monthy couples review solely for my own knowledge and comfort. Over the years I've found we as a couple have some interesting cycles but 5-6 times per month seems to be our sweet spot. Could it be more, sure but it really depends what is going on during those said months. Some will think its crazy to do this but I think you would be amazed if you tried it for a year or two. Always learning!


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

maskeddreamer01 said:


> I find it fascinating that in many of the relationships/marriages that there seems to be asking, bordering begging/pleading. I wonder why this happens vs the spontaneity and letting things happen naturally.


I would rather no sex than sex I had to beg and plead for. Hard pass.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

I'm batting .500 this year.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

I'm 62, HD and wife is 59, LD. Married at 23 and 21. Been married now 38 years. If I don't initiate sex...maybe 3 times a year now! When younger, we'd be good for 5-7x per week, sometimes 2- times a day. Although it was mostly me driving it. She's been premenapausal for damn near 10 years now. Just when it seems she's done, BAM, along comes Mr. Monthly! I'm still good for almost daily and if I drive it maybe twice a week. Usually no passion maintenance sex, which sucks. Turn down rate average 90% for sure. 
As she says, guess I could just go slam it in the door!?! Amazing we ever had a kid!


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> I'm 62, HD and wife is 59, LD. Married at 23 and 21. Been married now 38 years. If I don't initiate sex...maybe 3 times a year now! When younger, we'd be good for 5-7x per week, sometimes 2- times a day. Although it was mostly me driving it. She's been premenapausal for damn near 10 years now. Just when it seems she's done, BAM, along comes Mr. Monthly! I'm still good for almost daily and if I drive it maybe twice a week. Usually no passion maintenance sex, which sucks. Turn down rate average 90% for sure.
> As she says, guess I could just go slam it in the door!?! Amazing we ever had a kid!


That sucks.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Yep, it sucks! She has no interest in sex period. I've been like a lot of folks here, trying to put some excitement into our love life...she just can't get out of her head. We do love each other deeply and she does feel bad about her lack of sex drive, but as I say to her...your feeling bad doesn't do much to make our love life any better! It takes commitment and a desire of each other to share intimate time together, regardless of whether the other is "in" the mood. Doesn't help that she is a major stress baby.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Wish I had advice. we have an every Sunday commitment. Sometimes during the week. Mine has initiated once in the past 22 years. SAD!


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## Frankie J (4 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.
> 
> In my situation:
> 
> ...


I’ve I have never experienced a woman who didn’t want to have sex every moment of the day is this a true thing ?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Now that is amusing!


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Frankie J said:


> I’ve I have never experienced a woman who didn’t want to have sex every moment of the day is this a true thing ?


Then you are one lucky man, be thankful for what you have.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Frankie J said:


> I’ve I have never experienced a woman who didn’t want to have sex every moment of the day is this a true thing ?


Maybe your an alien from another planet?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> She has no interest in sex period.





TinyTbone said:


> she does feel bad about her lack of sex drive,


In another of your threads you said the following 

“ 38 years ago..she says she's never had much if any sex drive. She told her friend last night that basically do all these years she gave in to my sexual advances only to make happy so I wouldn't get angry and upset! That I had her perform sex acts with me she didn't want to do?”

I am very sorry, but your wife has been consistent for a lifetime. She has told anyone who would listen that she has never had much interest in sex. If she really wanted to change, she would at least be trying. 

Somehow you need to accept things as they are, for your own peace of mind.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Somehow you need to accept things as they are, for your own peace of mind.


Yep, this situation will never change. The only question is, between now and dead, is this the way you want to live your life. If not, leave now. You're the only one who can make this decision. But remember, no decision is a decision.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Diceplayer said:


> The only question is, between now and dead, is this the way you want to live your life.


Actually it is between the age he is now (62) and when his own libido tanks. Which if he left his testosterone alone could be 5 years +-. So his potential active and interested time could be tolerable. If he got his wife cranked up somehow, the stars could align to tank his interest. Or major illness intervene.

Actually, in his shoes I would do all could to accommodate the reality of wife’s libido and quit stressing about what has been lost. Focus on enjoying other aspects of life. In a decade or less he likely have zero interest in sex. 

We have to take life as it comes, not as we wish it were.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> Actually it is between the age he is now (62) and when his own libido tanks. Which if he left his testosterone alone could be 5 years +-. So his potential active and interested time could be tolerable. If he got his wife cranked up somehow, the stars could align to tank his interest. Or major illness intervene.
> 
> Actually, in his shoes I would do all could to accommodate the reality of wife’s libido and quit stressing about what has been lost. Focus on enjoying other aspects of life. In a decade or less he likely have zero interest in sex.
> 
> We have to take life as it comes, not as we wish it were.


You should show him how it can be done by going a decade like that yourself. Why not? No one has a libido when we're dead so keep that perspective in mind.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Loves Coffee said:


> You should show him how it can be done by going a decade like that yourself. Why not? No one has a libido when we're dead so keep that perspective in mind.


What is his realistic alternative?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> In another of your threads you said the following
> 
> “ 38 years ago..she says she's never had much if any sex drive. She told her friend last night that basically do all these years she gave in to my sexual advances only to make happy so I wouldn't get angry and upset! That I had her perform sex acts with me she didn't want to do?”
> 
> ...


I kinda have now. I've become an intimate friend of my right hand, really sucks.


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> What is his realistic alternative?


Leaving. If he wants to stay then do everything he can to kill his libido: play mmorpg's until 4am, no vitamin d, eat a lot, etc. If he still wants to experience life, a few overseas trips can do the trick. Depends on how well he's taken care of himself. 

If I got told to slam it in a door it would be at a minimum separation. Why care for her needs if she doesn't his?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

However I did cheat on the wife the other night and said hello to the left hand!!! Hahahaha 🤣🤣🤣


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> However I did cheat on the wife the other night and said hello to the left hand!!! Hahahaha 🤣🤣🤣


Sit on it until it falls asleep. I think they call that "The Stranger."


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## gameopoly5 (5 mo ago)

I, in my late 60s, wife 1 year younger than me. Both retired, adult daughter married and living abroad.
As regarding sex, my wife always claims to be busy during the day and promises we`ll have S time later in the evening.
Evening approaches and then she claims to feel too tired.
When I have complained to her about lack of intimacy she says, at our age this is to be expected, quite normal she says.
That`s how it`s been for years and now I`ve virtually given up.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

gameopoly5 said:


> When I have complained to her about lack of intimacy she says, at our age this is to be expected, quite normal she says.


Maybe. Have no idea what is “normal”. At least one frequent female poster often writes that is just how it is and ‘men’ just need to accept it. That is true because by that age it is too late to “start over”.

It doesn’t have to be that way. And isnt that way for many couples. And a person doesn’t have to like it. But, giving up is understandable because the wife aint changing her mind.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Gameopoly5, I know exactly that same scenario!


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Guess I always saw it different than some. If something costs nothing and feels so good, then why not? Great way to pas some free time away. Great way to stay close to each other. Seemed like a complete win/win?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> Guess I always saw it different than some. If something costs nothing and feels so good, then why not? Great way to pas some free time away. Great way to stay close to each other. Seemed like a complete win/win?


You would have to ask the uninterested party the question. I think maybe it is analogous to an enthusiastic gardener married to someone allergic to flowers.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Then take some Claritin for gods sake!!! Hahahhahaha


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## Cancer68 (6 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate. In my situation: I’m Male 42, Wife is 40 (two kids early teens) Together for 25 years. Married for 17. She initiates 1-2 a year. I probably get turned down 6 out of 10 times I initiate. Sex usually 2-4 times a month.


 I have tried numerous times to get a no... so I get upset.. if I try to argue my case no way will he let any intimacy happen... so I get it maybe 2 x a month not every month either


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> The thread has gone off in a direction I didn’t want. I appreciate the responses however I wasn’t asking for advice (again) on how to fix my issues I was simply curious as to how other marriages are working in terms of initiating, frequency etc hence the wording my original post.
> 
> Funnily enough. She actually initiated last night and also agreed to a one for her. One for me and for one for each other going forward . Meaning she initiates once a week, I do and then Sunday is our scheduled day. Although again this was agreed after a couple of glasses of wine.


Just a little update to this. 

Turns out the one for me, one for her and one for each other didn't last long. In fact it didn't get started at all. My wife gets up early for gym or work through the week and tends to fall asleep watching TV most nights either on sofa or in bed. Either that or after we turn TV off in bed she'll roll over onto her front (in the don't touch me I'm going to sleep position). So I didn't initiate and neither did she.

In fact due to (her time of the month) we've only had sex once since I posted that above which was last night. Again it was after a few drinks and she didn't want me to go down on her afterwards to get her off which isn't usual. I make that at least 3 weeks since her last orgasm, as she doesn't masturbate herself.

I'm going to try something different today, I'm going to send her a text whilst she's at work telling her that tonight we're going to go up to bed at 9pm as usual but tonight I'm going to give her a massage, then go down on her and give her the best orgasm she's had for a while. Then if we're not too tired afterwards we'll watch TV. 

She'll probably respond to the text with a laughing emoji, then I'm going to do what I said later tonight. (well attempt to anyway). 

Will report back tomorrow with the results.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> I kinda have now. I've become an intimate friend of my right hand, really sucks.


Go left to change it up


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> Just a little update to this.
> 
> Turns out the one for me, one for her and one for each other didn't last long. In fact it didn't get started at all. My wife gets up early for gym or work through the week and tends to fall asleep watching TV most nights either on sofa or in bed. Either that or after we turn TV off in bed she'll roll over onto her front (in the don't touch me I'm going to sleep position). So I didn't initiate and neither did she.
> 
> ...


I like the plan


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> I appreciate the responses however I wasn’t asking for advice (again) on how to fix my issues I was simply curious as to how other marriages are working in terms of initiating, frequency etc hence the wording my original post.
> ...
> Turns out the one for me, one for her and one for each other didn't last long.
> ...
> Will report back tomorrow with the results.


I respect your wishes on this, but it's kind of hard to follow when the story breaks my heart to hear.

Quick story from my side in terms of initiating since that is what you were seeking. My wife and I are usually in the sack every day. She has been studying for her CPA and has one of the tests coming up soon. She asked if I could take care of things in the house and have a day off of sex so she can focus on her studies. I said sure no problem and made sure coffee and everything was taken care of. Over the course of the day she asked me 4 times if I needed to have sex and we ended up having it later that night, anyway.

I hope your plan works out.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Loves Coffee said:


> I respect your wishes on this, but it's kind of hard to follow when the story breaks my heart to hear.
> 
> Quick story from my side in terms of initiating since that is what you were seeking. My wife and I are usually in the sack every day. She has been studying for her CPA and has one of the tests coming up soon. She asked if I could take care of things in the house and have a day off of sex so she can focus on her studies. I said sure no problem and made sure coffee and everything was taken care of. Over the course of the day she asked me 4 times if I needed to have sex and we ended up having it later that night, anyway.
> 
> I hope your plan works out.


What planet is she from? It can’t be Earth. Lol


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> What planet is she from? It can’t be Earth. Lol


i second this! Wow.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I like the plan


Her response to the text was “omfg 🤣”


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Loves Coffee said:


> My wife and I are usually in the sack every day.


Us too. And not to sleep either. Of course we are retired so no work


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> Just a little update to this.
> 
> Turns out the one for me, one for her and one for each other didn't last long. In fact it didn't get started at all. My wife gets up early for gym or work through the week and tends to fall asleep watching TV most nights either on sofa or in bed. Either that or after we turn TV off in bed she'll roll over onto her front (in the don't touch me I'm going to sleep position). So I didn't initiate and neither did she.
> 
> ...


Quick response to this. I don't believe in a TV in the bedroom. Life is distracting enough as is. I've always felt that the bedroom is a sanctuary from everything. A place for just us.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

We're in our 60s, together almost 23 years. We almost never turn each other down. Initiation is about 50/50, and we have sex on average 4x a week. Sometimes on vacation we have sex every day, at least once.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

My wife only turned me down in the middle part of our marriage, when the kids were little. First few years, we had sex very often, then not very much, in the last 15 it was scheduled, so no rejections...  Until the big rejection came...


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Married but Happy said:


> We're in our 60s, together almost 23 years. We almost never turn each other down. Initiation is about 50/50, and we have sex on average 4x a week. Sometimes on vacation we have sex every day, at least once.


Yeah, “The Stepford Wives” is a good movie.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

My wife has sent me a message saying tonight might have to be postponed as she’s got a bad stomach.

So I said no problem fun Tuesday it is. To which she replied with a heart emoji so let’s see what tomorrow brings.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

BIL310 said:


> so let’s see what tomorrow brings.


Ingrown toenail?


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## Always Learning (Oct 2, 2013)

maskeddreamer01 said:


> I find it fascinating that in many of the relationships/marriages that there seems to be asking, bordering begging/pleading. I wonder why this happens vs the spontaneity and letting things happen naturally. Is it that ppl just get too damned comfortable with each other and it allows them to stop trying? Generally relationships go through ups/down or cycles, whatever you want to call it. It is when there is a major shift that differs from the norm that is the cause for alarm. About 4 years ago we had our issues and we were going through a low cycle. I actually started a log/tracker to review a daily/monthy couples review solely for my own knowledge and comfort. Over the years I've found we as a couple have some interesting cycles but 5-6 times per month seems to be our sweet spot. Could it be more, sure but it really depends what is going on during those said months. Some will think its crazy to do this but I think you would be amazed if you tried it for a year or two. *Always learning!*


Are you talking to me? LOL


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## Loves Coffee (4 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> What planet is she from? It can’t be Earth. Lol


The story is for real. No exaggeration. I only offered it so that @BIL310 could know there are good women out there. He has the information he asked for. How will he use it?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Would constant rejection or being told to always initiate be a reason to reevaluate the marriage?

I’m being told she expects me to initiate and she will accommodate my need for intercourse. She doesn’t need it nor does she ever think about it.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> Would constant rejection or being told to always initiate be a reason to reevaluate the marriage?
> 
> I’m being told she expects me to initiate and she will accommodate my need for intercourse. She doesn’t need it nor does she ever think about it.


Asked my wife “when was the last time you needed ‘fun,’ when you really wanted to ****?” Long pause. ”I can’t remember,” she replied.

sigh


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Asked my wife “when was the last time you needed ‘fun,’ when you really wanted to ****?” Long pause. ”I can’t remember,” she replied.
> 
> sigh


When you marry, you are agreeing to monogamy not celibacy. Each person is publicly vowing to have sex with each other. Not cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Would constant rejection or being told to always initiate be a reason to reevaluate the marriage?
> 
> I’m being told she expects me to initiate and she will accommodate my need for intercourse. She doesn’t need it nor does she ever think about it.


IMO, if she accommodates your needs, then I would not reevaluate the marriage. But I would want to know whether she ever enjoyed it. If so, what happened. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Frankie J said:


> I’ve I have never experienced a woman who didn’t want to have sex every moment of the day is this a true thing ?


I wonder if these women with little or no libido had a very high libido before meeting their husbands? Is the wife’s “libido” largely a function of the man’s physical attractiveness and his performance in bed?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> Maybe. Have no idea what is “normal”. At least one frequent female poster often writes that is just how it is and ‘men’ just need to accept it. That is true because by that age it is too late to “start over.”
> 
> It doesn’t have to be that way. And isnt that way for many couples. And a person doesn’t have to like it. But, giving up is understandable because the wife aint changing her mind.


Have any of you tried maca root pills for libido? I’ve personally found it very effective.

Refusing to have sex with your spouse on a regular basis is unacceptable to me. That is essentially “friend zoning” your spouse. No intimacy, no friendship.

Perhaps you could only perform household chores (or look up from your phone) if you are in the mood. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

CraigBesuden said:


> IMO, if she accommodates your needs, then I would not reevaluate the marriage. But I would want to know whether she ever enjoyed it. If so, what happened.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


As she puts it, she’s fulfilling my need. She could care less if I didn’t have a libido. She says she enjoys it but it’s only after we are into intercourse but she’s so quiet. I have other desires outside of intercourse but she refuses to do any of them. It’s just one position and same foreplay towards her every time.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> As she puts it, she’s fulfilling my need. She could care less if I didn’t have a libido. She says she enjoys it but it’s only after we are into intercourse but she’s so quiet. I have other desires outside of intercourse but she refuses to do any of them. It’s just one position and same foreplay towards her every time.


That gets old fast, one position and same foreplay. She won‘t try new positions? Toys?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> As she puts it, she’s fulfilling my need. She could care less if I didn’t have a libido. She says she enjoys it but it’s only after we are into intercourse but she’s so quiet. I have other desires outside of intercourse but she refuses to do any of them. It’s just one position and same foreplay towards her every time.


I definitely wouldn't end a marriage if she regularly accepted your initiation and it was good sex. Even though having your wife initiate is a great thing, I don't care if my wife always wants me to take the lead. However, if I'm taking the lead initiating, I'm also going to be taking the lead in what we are doing, like foreplay and positions. She should still be passionate about it all though. Lying still and needing a guide book to figure out what you are and aren't allowed to do would be enough for me seriously consider ending it. I need to feel the passion and desire, that she really wants to be doing this with me. Every activity sucks when your partner is watching the clock waiting for it to be over and sex is no exception.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> she expects me to initiate and she will accommodate my need for intercourse. She doesn’t need it nor does she ever think about it.


I will submit your "problem" is maybe solved, if she is indeed serious. If you will read the scientific paper @Laurentium linked to in another thread, you will see this is in fact the defacto norm for a woman who has been married a long time. Look up "The Female Sexual Response: A Different Model" There is a diagram that will explain how it works. Responsive Desire is the norm and maybe the only game in town with a lot of females. They don't start out aroused, but will become aroused with some effort by their partner Look at the diagrams in the paper. 

Women married to the same old guy for years don't crave sex like a man does. In fact, after the first year or two and especially after kids arrive, sex is nearly the last thing in their mind. So if a man approaches them directly like they did when dating, it isn't going to lead to good things. That is just how it is. If you review the diagram you will see how the whole scenario works. 

I will say my wife does need and obviously thinks about sex. But not to the extent that I do. If I didn't initiate, she would think I had lost interest in her, and THAT would be a problem. She just isn't going to initiate, it has never been her nature. Even when we were dating. Maybe it was her upbringing, that girls aren't supposed to start the romancing. Who knows? And really who cares? I surely don't! We have had a wonderfully full intimacy for a very long time. I get her motor started in small ways. Some conversation, a caress here, a kiss there, a whisper in her ear, some more conversation. Romance. Spend some time. She very readily and enthusiastically responds to me romancing her. What is kinda funny is she of course after all of these years knows where we are *probably* heading, but still plays the game.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Longtime Hubby said:


> That gets old fast, one position and same foreplay. She won‘t try new positions? Toys?


She’s a no on toys as she said she doesn’t want them. I can get one though… 

Her issue boils down to body image issues. She says she feels humiliated at the thought of sex or trying anything. She won’t go see anyone about it either.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> She says she feels humiliated at the thought of sex or trying anything.


Who would she go see to fix this? Do you mean a therapist? Or a trainer? Have you guys looked into plastic surgery?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Who would she go see to fix this? Do you mean a therapist? Or a trainer? Have you guys looked into plastic surgery?


A therapist. Plastic surgery is a no go for either of us.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> A therapist. Plastic surgery is a no go for either of us.


Aw, why no to plastic surgery? Cost? It's expensive for sure.

I understand how she feels. A therapist won't help, IMHO, but she could try if she wanted. No one will convince her of what isn't. I hope she has friends she can talk to. It's hard to talk about it, honestly, and it's very lonely. I feel awful for her. Didn't she tell you to go outside the marriage?


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

We never had a real norm with me being in the military for a career. We did have amazing crazy bonding sex for the first couple weeks after returning and then things kinda settled into 3-4 times a week. I was stationed in Adak, Alaska for 9 months, non accompanied duty, then left there directly to a ship in San Diego, also for 9 months. The wife stayed with our home to keep our lives intact. We were apart for 18 months. We saw each other a total of 86 days during that time when I took leave (military vacation term) before going away first, then in the middle, and then after getting a ship where our home was. We had the most intense love making sessions of our marriage during those times home, daily, several time a day. Sometimes only leaving bed to get food or bathroom breaks. After my final deployment in 1999-2000, we decided to finally have a child. She gave birth 17 yrs and 6 months into our marriage. 18 months later I retired and entered into a new career. Both in our 40s now, with a somewhat normal lifestyle, our sex life became average. I'm HD and she's LD, so it kinda settled into responsive sex almost all the time. 1-3 times a week for many years. Since she became premenopausal it has dropped considerably to about 5 times a month. Especially with developing knee, hip and back issues as she nears 60 herself. Also didn't help that I started suffering from ED. We are both still trying to figure out a happy medium here.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

GoodDad5 said:


> She’s a no on toys as she said she doesn’t want them. I can get one though…
> 
> Her issue boils down to body image issues. She says she feels humiliated at the thought of sex or trying anything. She won’t go see anyone about it either.


She really should realize sex with her hubby isn't just all about her, perhaps.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> As she puts it, she’s fulfilling my need. She could care less if I didn’t have a libido. She says she enjoys it but it’s only after we are into intercourse but she’s so quiet. I have other desires outside of intercourse but she refuses to do any of them. It’s just one position and same foreplay towards her every time.


See my “Dr Psych Mom” thread here in the “Sex In Marriage “ section.

it is about this kind of thing.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Ingrown toenail?


Turns out, I didn't need to wait until today. We we're quite touchy feely last night, and whilst in bed I felt the mood was right to make a move. She reciprocated and it was game on!

I just need to continue taking charge now and see where it goes.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> I just need to* continue taking charge* now and see where it goes.


Predict it will go well


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I’ve tried being dominant/take charge and get told I’m being mean. She told me at one time a while back she liked it. I can’t win for trying.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’m being told she expects me to initiate and she will accommodate my need for intercourse.


So what does this mean? She wants you to initiate? Is it possible you are talking past one another? She says something but you interpret it differently from what she meant? Or she isnt saying what she means.

How is you initiating “being mean”? In her mind? 

Would third party counseling/training facilitating the discussion help the two of you?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> So what does this mean? She wants you to initiate? Is it possible you are talking past one another? She says something but you interpret it differently from what she meant? Or she isnt saying what she means.
> 
> How is you initiating “being mean”? In her mind?
> 
> Would third party counseling/training facilitating the discussion help the two of you?


If I could find a sex therapist or a MC who wasn’t so expensive I would. 

What she means is she has no desire or want for sex on her own, but if I want it she will meet that need, which I take as similar to if I’m hungry she would make me a quick snack to accommodate me. 

There’s no passion and no variety. I get the same snack every time.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried being dominant/take charge and get told I’m being mean. She told me at one time a while back she liked it. I can’t win for trying.


What do you want?

I have a serious issue with being a nice guy. It is the same issue you are having. You need to start doing some of what you want. Don't ask if it is OK. Don't ask what she thinks. Don't ask what she wants. Don't ask!! Just start doing some of what you want.

If she objects or says no, then move on. If she says no often enough, you really need to move on and get out of this marriage.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

GoodDad5 said:


> There’s no passion and no variety. I get the same snack every time.


No therapist or counsellor is going to make your wife become someone she isn't.

Of which you would do well to accept her as she is, and stop wanting more from her than she will give you. Or you should simply let her go and see what that gets you.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

leftfield said:


> What do you want?
> 
> I have a serious issue with being a nice guy. It is the same issue you are having. You need to start doing some of what you want. Don't ask if it is OK. Don't ask what she thinks. Don't ask what she wants. Don't ask!! Just start doing some of what you want.
> 
> If she objects or says no, then move on. If she says no often enough, you really need to move on and get out of this marriage.


Yeah, I have been and am stepping back from the nice guy stuff. When it comes to sex I just feel so wrong trying to get what I want by trying to force her to do something besides the status quo. I give up. I don’t think she’s capable of understanding my sexual desires at all and I honestly think she may be truly asexual.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

GoodDad5 said:


> Yeah, I have been and am stepping back from the nice guy stuff. When it comes to sex I just feel so wrong trying to get what I want by trying to force her to do something besides the status quo. I give up. I don’t think she’s capable of understanding my sexual desires at all and I honestly think she may be truly asexual.


So either leave or take her up on her offer to get sex elsewhere. She is trying to accommodate it, I think she realizes you’re unhappy with her and is wanting to be fair. Unless you think her offer wasn’t sincere? You know her best…


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So either leave or take her up on her offer to get sex elsewhere. She is trying to accommodate it, I think she realizes you’re unhappy with her and is wanting to be fair. Unless you think her offer wasn’t sincere? You know her best…


I can't accept sex outside of the marriage as a solution. Even if it were offered. To me sex is a far too fundamental part of being married to simply outsource it. I also would not be able to just go out and get laid. I would need to build a relationship with someone and if I'm going to do that I would rather end the marriage so I could put all of my energy into the new relationship.

If my wife told me to go get sex somewhere else with even a smidgen of sincerity it would be over and done for me. I wouldn't want to be with her if she thought all my desire to have sex was just to have a warm place to get off.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> *When it comes to sex I just feel so wrong trying to get what I want by trying to force her to do something besides the status quo. I give up. I don’t think she’s capable of understanding my sexual desires at all and I honestly think she may be truly asexual.*


Been there. Done that. Still trying to figure it out.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried being dominant/take charge and get told I’m being mean. She told me at one time a while back she liked it. I can’t win for trying.


You can’t “try” to be dominant. You either are dominant in your relationship or you are not.

When people who don’t have a dominant persona try to be dominant, they usually just end up acting like jerks and Aholes trying to push people around. 

Often times it’s better to replace words like dominant/dominance/alpha/aggressive etc with words like proactive and initiative and simply stating what it is that you want.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> Turns out, I didn't need to wait until today. We we're quite touchy feely last night, and whilst in bed I felt the mood was right to make a move. She reciprocated and it was game on!
> 
> I just need to continue taking charge now and see where it goes.


Well this didn't last long.

The last couple few weeks haven't been great. The last time we had sex (again after alcohol) was a couple of weeks ago and she stopped me in the middle of it and said I was going too fast, I'm not in the mood now and pulled away. That was the end of that. We had a brief discussion a week or so later about it, and I was told I was like a 16 year old and it was just weird, I asked her why she didn't just communicate that to me earlier that she wasn't into it and that I was sorry I misread the situation (she was making groans and I thought she was enjoying it). Her response was that I should know that it wasn't what she wanted.

Since then to be honest she's been moody, distant and miserable. She's back in her I hate life, hate my job, hate this hate that mood so I haven't even tried to make an effort or initiate because I haven't wanted to, as the days go on and she continues like this I get less attracted to her if I'm 100% honest. There's no way she would have reciprocated to anything lately. I can sit on the couch and hear her sighing and huffing and puffing next to me. Today she sent me a text about a parcel that was delivered, and I replied jokingly it's a vibrator - her text response back was F**k O*f.

There'll be days where she sends texts with the normal xx on the end, and then days where it's nothing. If I drive her to work of a morning she won't give me a kiss or anything she just simply gets out. Get's in bed every night and turns on her back to go to sleep. It's like me, myself and Irene and I'm just sick of treading on eggshells around her and wondering what type of mood she's in.

At least I can say I made an effort to improve things.

Time for the 180.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> Well this didn't last long.
> 
> The last couple few weeks haven't been great. The last time we had sex (again after alcohol) was a couple of weeks ago and she stopped me in the middle of it and said I was going too fast, I'm not in the mood now and pulled away. That was the end of that. We had a brief discussion a week or so later about it, and I was told I was like a 16 year old and it was just weird, I asked her why she didn't just communicate that to me earlier that she wasn't into it and that I was sorry I misread the situation (she was making groans and I thought she was enjoying it). Her response was that I should know that it wasn't what she wanted.
> 
> ...


This is a woman who doesn't deserve to be married.

A friend would treat you better.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BIL310 said:


> Well this didn't last long.
> 
> The last couple few weeks haven't been great. The last time we had sex (again after alcohol) was a couple of weeks ago and she stopped me in the middle of it and said I was going too fast, I'm not in the mood now and pulled away. That was the end of that. We had a brief discussion a week or so later about it, and I was told I was like a 16 year old and it was just weird, I asked her why she didn't just communicate that to me earlier that she wasn't into it and that I was sorry I misread the situation (she was making groans and I thought she was enjoying it). Her response was that I should know that it wasn't what she wanted.
> 
> ...


Women can be every bit as abusive as men, and you...are in an emotionally/verbally abusive relationship. I'd seek legal counsel and weigh your options. I'm sorry you're going through this, it was difficult to read, so I can imagine what it's like to live with that.


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## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Livvie said:


> This is a woman who doesn't deserve to be married.
> 
> A friend would treat you better.


This!


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Has she seen a doctor or a therapist? It almost reads like she’s possibly bipolar.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

@BIL310 if you find that your wife seldom wants to share sex with you, and has no desire to change that. You would do well to set her free, from the burden of sharing sex with you.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> If I could find a sex therapist or a MC who wasn’t so expensive I would.
> 
> What she means is she has no desire or want for sex on her own, but if I want it she will meet that need, which I take as similar to if I’m hungry she would make me a quick snack to accommodate me.
> 
> There’s no passion and no variety. I get the same snack every time.


Boy do I understand that!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> A friend would treat you better.


Honestly, I think there are couples out there where a guy would truly have a more positive interpersonal exchange with a stranger at the mall. 

I’m not necessarily talking about sex per se. I’m talking about someone talking to you with basic common courtesy and social grace. 

In terms of romance/sexuality, a first coffee date with another person at Starbucks may involve more personal engagement on an interpersonal level than some married couples crawling into bed together at the end of the day. 

Even if he made a respectful and compassionate proposition to someone on a first date that was declined, that person on the first date may not give him the cold shoulder and blow off and degrading excuses that she does.

At least someone on a first date will most likely make eye contact with you and engage in some relevant personal conversation to get to know each other. 

Some of these rejecting spouses won’t even engage enough to have a meaningful conversation about anything but bills, house repairs or the kids.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

oldshirt said:


> Honestly, I think there are couples out there where a guy would truly have a more positive interpersonal exchange with a stranger at the mall.
> 
> I’m not necessarily talking about sex per se. I’m talking about someone talking to you with basic common courtesy and social grace.
> 
> ...


Ya know oldshirt, you show a good wisdom in things and I respect your advice and comments much.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Tried something different today. I tried flirting with my wife today via text. She started the morning off by giving me a French kiss before leaving for work and she said she was trying to tease me. I took that as I will try flirting with her hoping it will lead to sex. She was in a good mood today and responded to my flirty texts. I even helped with dinner. Did sex happen though? Nope, and she even told me that just because she teased and we flirted doesn’t mean it should lead to sex. I give up.


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## snerg (Apr 10, 2013)

GoodDad5 said:


> I’ve tried being dominant/take charge and get told I’m being mean. She told me at one time a while back she liked it. I can’t win for trying.


Don't worry. You wife goes crazy once a year for 365 days.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

To many wives that are to comfortable in their relationships and to many needy men which drives their wives attraction even lower.

Keep doing the same thing and you will continue to get the same result.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> This is a woman who doesn't deserve to be married.
> 
> A friend would treat you better.


Actually, a dog would be much better friend than she is. Let her huff n puff n get herself to work she hates. I bet she is a real prize on the job. Hope she doesnt deal with customers.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Man, I got shot down in flames again this morning!!


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

Me closer to 70 than 60
Her 6 years younger than I
Together 39 years, Married 36
We were DINKS for the first 11-12 years together and had sex pretty much daily
Sons are 27 & 26
Sex tapered off after sons were born to 2-3 times a week
Sex once a week or so now. We are daily bunnies on our 6-9 weeks of vacation 
Wife rarely physically initiated during our whole relationship; but, did vocally ask on occasion


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## CrapMan (7 mo ago)

CrapMan said:


> Me closer to 70 than 60
> Her 6 years younger than I
> Together 39 years, Married 36
> We were DINKS for the first 11-12 years together and had sex pretty much daily
> ...


Oh, forgot. Wife never turns me down


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> Tried something different today. I tried flirting with my wife today via text. She started the morning off by giving me a French kiss before leaving for work and she said she was trying to tease me. I took that as I will try flirting with her hoping it will lead to sex. She was in a good mood today and responded to my flirty texts. I even helped with dinner. Did sex happen though? Nope, and she even told me that just because she teased and we flirted doesn’t mean it should lead to sex. I give up.


Lord, I'm a man, I can change, if I have to, I think!


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> Man, I got shot down in flames again this morning!!


I thot you were on exit plan to Feb ‘23. I thot your wife had checked out n called you a$$hole all time. Why are you putting yourself in position to receive incoming fire?


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> Tried something different today. I tried flirting with my wife today via text. She started the morning off by giving me a French kiss before leaving for work and she said she was trying to tease me. I took that as I will try flirting with her hoping it will lead to sex. She was in a good mood today and responded to my flirty texts. I even helped with dinner. Did sex happen though? Nope, and she even told me that just because she teased and we flirted doesn’t mean it should lead to sex. I give up.


You didn't do anything wrong. 😌 I would feel badly if I teased my husband and led him to think sex was on the horizon, but really never had any intentions of doing that. That just seems like a mean thing to do.

The stories on here mainly posted by men when it comes to sex, makes me wonder if divorce wasn't such a challenging process in most states, if men would be tolerating this type of thing as often as they do.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> , if men would be tolerating this type of thing as often as they


It is probably mostly inertia, a body at rest tends to remain at rest. With a pinch of hopium. Kinda like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown, pulling away as he kicked it. No matter how many times, he just kept coming back for more.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Surprisingly looking back, I've never once been rejected for sex  with any partner

It could be that my relationships and marriage aren't as long as some others here like 20 40 yrs, or maybe I just have a real good picker when it comes to this, like I wouldn't get involved with someone who is averse to physical touch and expect to get anything from her. 

Or it could be the way I initiate... or all the above 🤷‍♂️


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> just have a real good picker when it comes to this


A good picker is best protection against disappointment. How did you develop that skill?


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rus47 said:


> A good picker is best protection against disappointment. How did you develop that skill?


I dont think it's a skill, either than avoiding women who are averse to physical touch.

My last ex was even a virgin no way I could have fathomed she would want almost as much as sex as my ex wife. It's like winning the lottery twice in a row for something you don't actually want.

Then again, when I showed her photo to my mum, my mum did discern looking at her that she's going to want a lot of sex. I was like what? No way as she's a virgin... yet turns out she was right 😑

Maybe its a subconscious thing, I don't know. Or maybe because I only really pick out of the pool I already know are crushing hard and physically attracted to me, and also I never chase.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

RandomDude said:


> my mum did discern looking at her that she's going to want a lot of sex.


Your mum could have made a LOT of money selling how to develop her perceptive abilities.

BTW, just because a woman is virgin fortells nothing. Kinda like a brand new Ferrari in the showroom is going to be fast in the hands of the right driver. 

Maybe you are just a good race car driver


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

Rus47 said:


> Your mum could have made a LOT of money selling how to develop her perceptive abilities.
> 
> BTW, just because a woman is virgin fortells nothing. Kinda like a brand new Ferrari in the showroom is going to be fast in the hands of the right driver.
> 
> Maybe you are just a good race car driver


Haha more like an average commuter that buys stock sedans only to realise under the hood they always end up packing turbocharged V12s for some reason and I can't handle it 😅

My mum got into all this spirituality stuff and readings so who knows. I normally doubt this stuff but couldn't believe it when she was right.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> I thot you were on exit plan to Feb ‘23. I thot your wife had checked out n called you a$$hole all time. Why are you putting yourself in position to receive incoming fire?


Man's still gotta do what he's gotta do! We r still trying to get it together. Don't hate her. Just...well a very confusing time. She has at least finally called her Dr and made an appointment to discuss her depression.
We are also seeking out a therapist that deals with trauma for her as well. Will fight the the fight as long as I can. February IS still the benchmark in my head still.


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> Tried something different today. I tried flirting with my wife today via text. She started the morning off by giving me a French kiss before leaving for work and she said she was trying to tease me. I took that as I will try flirting with her hoping it will lead to sex. She was in a good mood today and responded to my flirty texts. I even helped with dinner. Did sex happen though? Nope, and she even told me that just because she teased and we flirted doesn’t mean it should lead to sex. I give up.


This is a difficult situation. I spent years and years trying to figure this stuff out, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you I have the answer. But I do have a question. How did you handle this? I can think of about a dozen ways I might address this, but you need to figure out how you will address a situation like this.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

leftfield said:


> This is a difficult situation. I spent years and years trying to figure this stuff out, and I'm not going to sit here and tell you I have the answer. But I do have a question. How did you handle this? I can think of about a dozen ways I might address this, but you need to figure out how you will address a situation like this.


After I got a bit irritated I just took care of it solo and went to bed. I’m at the point that I’m tired of dealing with starfish sex and will start turning it down when that’s all she will offer.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Livvie said:


> This is a woman who doesn't deserve to be married.
> 
> A friend would treat you better.


Thanks for replying. I actually agree.

Im ashamed and embarrassed to actually say what Im going to but current situation now is this.

We’ve had two night break on our own booked for a while. Last night and tonight. Last week I actually thought about cancelling as there’s still been nothing from her but I could do with a break from kids and normal life myself so didn’t.

Last night after a nice meal and drinks (quite a few) we ended up having sex when we got back to hotel. Neither of us came and as usual just drunken sex.

This morning I woke early which I often do but it was like 5.30am, so I dozed and waited until around 7.15 and tried to stirr my wife to see if she was up for hangover morning sex (which she often is on breaks/holidays). She asked what time it was and then replied it’s too early and went back asleep.

We mostly have sex after drinking and my wife has no patience if I’m not ready for action so as I tend to take viagra more or less all the time now to make sure things down below will work otherwise if it doesn’t i could be waiting weeks again. And it plays on my mind when it doesn’t work for next time.

8am I stirred her again and she reciprocated, she started giving me a handjob to get me ready but it was already playing on my mind it won’t work. She didn’t give it much time before saying you’re not ready and I said carry on I will be and thankfully I was back in the game. We started have sex and then rather than come when I was going to I said to her go on top and by the time shE messed about trying to find bedsheets again to cover herself up and get on top I lost erection.

The combination of have sex after drinking or hungover coupled with her impatience is seriously affecting me.

anyway at that point she said I can’t be bothered so I carried on and gave her oral sex until she came. I then said it’s your turn now and she can just use her hand (as she doesn’t like to give me a blowjob). She ignored a few of my prompts to do it and basically lay face away from me on bed. I just felt sick.

Today we’ve been out and had a walk and lunch and two drinks only. Now we’re back in hotel having a siesta and I thought was perfect time to have sober sex. Apparently not. She’s gone asleep next to me. And when I mentioned about having sex now whilst sober she said I’m like a baby and to wait an hour or so after her sleep I presume.

now it looks like my options are to wake her up
Shortly because she won’t, initiate because she won’t or have drunken sex again tonight after our night out.

I know it’s my fault for accepting this. If I didn’t have kids I’d run a million miles away honestly.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> Thanks for replying. I actually agree.
> 
> Im ashamed and embarrassed to actually say what Im going to but current situation now is this.
> 
> ...


Ok, this sounds stupid, but can get a point across. Just bang one off on her whilst she sleeps and tell her ya couldn't wait.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> After I got a bit irritated I just took care of it solo and went to bed. I’m at the point that I’m tired of dealing with starfish sex and will start turning it down when that’s all she will offer.


I understand about the starfish sex. She wonders why my soldier kinda stop standing at attention!


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

TinyTbone said:


> I understand about the starfish sex. She wonders why my soldier kinda stop standing at attention!


Totally understand this!!


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## leftfield (Mar 29, 2016)

GoodDad5 said:


> After I got a bit irritated I just took care of it solo and went to bed. I’m at the point that I’m tired of dealing with starfish sex and will start turning it down when that’s all she will offer.


Based on this response it sounds like you handled this situation the same way you have other times. How is that working for you? You should come up with some new ways to deal with these situations.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

leftfield said:


> Based on this response it sounds like you handled this situation the same way you have other times. How is that working for you? You should come up with some new ways to deal with these situations.


I honestly hate it, but I don’t know how to break the cycle without totally imploding my life. Financially I would be hurt if we divorced. I have to play happy when I’m around the wife and kids so that I put on a good attitude but when I’m by myself I keep wishing I could go back in time and make better decisions and tell my younger self to wait.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> I honestly hate it, but I don’t know how to break the cycle without totally imploding my life. Financially I would be hurt if we divorced. I have to play happy when I’m around the wife and kids so that I put on a good attitude but when I’m by myself I keep wishing I could go back in time and make better decisions and tell my younger self to wait.


As I see it, only three choices:

1. *Live with it *.That's why porn is so popular. Its an escape from reality for at least a little while. Sure some will say the wife would be hurt but if she would be THAT hurt, she should just be having sex with husband instead of always telling him No. 

2. *Find someone else for sex* Not really an answer as not easy as most women would want a relationship not just an ongoing FWB. I met and had sex with a bunch of women between my marriages and while I had a lot of sex, each was really just a one nighter and many were married who just wanted one night of fun. I suspect if that's what's still out there in the dating world, it could be pretty dismal. Sure you can have a lot of sex but when its not with the same person, I don't think you establish any kind of connection. And while that was cool and exciting when I was 20 something, while a 40 something was not really all that rewarding. I felt sometimes the women were just using ME for sex. And they were as honestly, I was using them too. 

3. *Leave. * Not easy to do as you give away half...or more...of everything you own and essentially have to start all over. When you are in your 30s, no so bad...in your 50s or 60s, a different story. I also expect meeting someone new might be tough when you are middle aged and living by yourself in an apartment as that would reek of being "unsuccessful". But you couldn't afford a house for a while as you just gave away half of what you owned. Then when you do meet someone, you can't really say you left your last marriage due to lack of sex as then they will tag you as a horny old man as well. So you have to come up with a story as to why you left. I don't see horny, old, unsuccessful being on the top of many women's dating list. Even if that is not true, I see that as being a possible perception. 

And you can likely ever forget about retiring. I have a great job, with great pay and I don't do much. BUT I still want to stop working soon and can't imagine putting in another 10 or 15 years just to recover. Is being retired before 60 with a crappy sex life better than working when you are 75 with a good sex life a fair exchange? Thats up to YOU. I could be tooling around the Florida coast on my boat on a Wednesday morning here real soon while others are working or I could have to give up that boat with the hopes of finding better sex. Once again, a personal choice you have to make.

I think those are the only real options and they all kinda suck. You just have to decide what sucks more, your current situation or something like Item #3? Unfortunately I don't think anyone has the answer except YOU.

Best of luck.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

So she is a prick tease that enjoys rubbing you face in it. What a nice wife you got. NOT!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

GoodDad5 said:


> I honestly hate it, but I don’t know how to break the cycle without totally imploding my life. Financially I would be hurt if we divorced. I have to play happy when I’m around the wife and kids so that I put on a good attitude but when I’m by myself I keep wishing I could go back in time and make better decisions and tell my younger self to wait.


Play happy? Why? If you are not happy, you are playing a false narrative.


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## Vin0770 (2 mo ago)

BIL310 said:


> I know the results will vary for this but just curious to see how other couples rate.
> 
> In my situation:
> 
> ...


W 65 H 64 married six years having plenty of sex 2 times during the work week, 2 times weekend.

She initiates once every couple months so my hit rate is about 90%. Just have to time it right and be aware of the day, environment, physical status, work day, etc.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

TinyTbone said:


> Ok, this sounds stupid, but can get a point across. Just bang one off on her whilst she sleeps and tell her ya couldn't wait.


To be honest I did actually start doing that. I said I’ll do it myself and as I started she was like are you messing? She was facing the other way and just ignored me after that.

Later on in the afternoon we came back the hotel and after a sleep for an hour (her not me) we ended up having sex. Again on her terms as I wanted it before she went asleep and she didn’t.

Since we’ve come home she’s been more touchy freely. She definitely has up and down mood swings throughout the month.

I need to emphasise the point that I’m not too concerned that she doesn’t ever initiate as long as when I do the majority of the time she doesn’t reject me.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

I got told tonight to lower my expectations on sex because I just need to realize that the majority of the time we have sex it will just be for my benefit since she’s just not that into it. She also told me that most wives are probably like this and that’s why I needed to lower my expectations. Take it or leave it approach. 

I’m giving this until after the holidays before I make a decision on what I should do. I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Almost never but if there is any sign of reluctance on her part then I lose interest.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

GD5, if my wife ever said the things your wife said I be letting her know she isn't that special in no uncertain terms and she is far from the only fish in the sea.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

GoodDad5 said:


> I got told tonight to lower my expectations on sex because I just need to realize that the majority of the time we have sex it will just be for my benefit since she’s just not that into it. She also told me that most wives are probably like this and that’s why I needed to lower my expectations. Take it or leave it approach.
> 
> I’m giving this until after the holidays before I make a decision on what I should do. I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.


Remind me of your ages?

But, regardless, I'd be out of that marriage...


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> I got told tonight to lower my expectations on sex because I just need to realize that the majority of the time we have sex it will just be for my benefit since she’s just not that into it. She also told me that most wives are probably like this and that’s why I needed to lower my expectations. Take it or leave it approach.
> 
> I’m giving this until after the holidays before I make a decision on what I should do. I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.


Hey, our wives must be sisters as I have heard that one before too! Heard the "most wives" line as well too when I told her I was just trying to make our sex life better and heard "most wives our age don't care about sex very much anymore".


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

FG1, Seriously? The answer to that would be "then I don't suppose you would mind if I sub contracted the sex part of our relationship" 

The again I can be a snarky b,stard at times.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> most wives our age don't care about sex very much anymore".


Which part do they not care about? The orgasm? The great feeling afterward?


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Diceplayer said:


> Which part do they not care about? The orgasm? The great feeling afterward?


 After browsing this site for some time if the Mon sexual wife thing is not that they don't like sex but a passive aggressive way of punishing their partner for some real or imagined "crime"

In a new relationship they would probably fck like bunnies with a full range of acts


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

Non sexual


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Diceplayer said:


> Which part do they not care about?  The orgasm? The great feeling afterward?


With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.


Then she should be happy if you relieve her of that burden


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.


Then maybe she should just have a lot of friends, and not be married.

A marriage is a sexual relationship. 

She admitted that to you because she knows you aren't going anywhere, despite the unfulfilling sex life.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Then maybe she should just have a lot of friends, and not be married.
> 
> A marriage is a sexual relationship.
> 
> She admitted that to you because she knows you aren't going anywhere, despite the unfulfilling sex life.


Probably true.


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## Kput (3 mo ago)

This situation is often due to the partner being to sure, to comfortable and to certain in the relationship. Shaking the foundations of the relationship may engender a relationship where one person does not feel they have the upper hand and all control.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.


those above were almost my exact same words to my wife and to the counselor when we were in MC.

i was just simply being honest that one of the critical criteria conditions for me being in a marriage was to have an active and satisfactory live and sex life and that if she truly did not want that, that I would prefer to go our separate ways so she could be celibate and I could see if I could find someone who did want a love and sex life. - The MC agreed that that was a reasonable expectation and turned to look to her for her response.

The point to make here is humans want to connect erotically/romantically/sexually.

That component can wither and die in many long term relationships and that is sad.

but life goes on and it is normal and natural to move on and seek it again. You’re not a bad guy for wanting a good relationship.

if she would rather spend the rest of her days finger fcking her phone watching other people live and fill the house with cats, that is her perogative.

but you have the right to live.

If having a romantic/sexual component to a relationship is important to you, but she does not want that in her life, you have the right to move on and seek elsewhere.

And it is perfectly OK to let her know that it is important to you and to not feel any shame or embarrassment over that.

with my wife, that did not make her horny or transform her into a sex beast.

But what it did do was wake her up to the fact that just because she wasn’t in the mood, that did not mean that I had to live my life as a eunuch.

she had a choice. She could have chosen to have Thanksgiving with the kids in her own apartment with her cats while I moved on.

or she could come to the negotiation table and discuss what will make the marriage and the marital sex life more appealing than a divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> With my wife I think it would be "All of the above" She has admitted recently that sex isn't all that important to her anymore.


When I was in MC, I disclosed that without a sex life, that remaining in the marriage would not be important to me anymore. 

what was funny was my wife looked over at the MC expecting him to scold me or tell me I was wrong, but instead he just looked at her with an inquisitive look waiting for her response and finally told her I had stated my position and asked her if she would prefer to address the issues and work on the marriage or divorce.

When pressed for her preference, she conceded she would rather have a live and sex life rather than divorce.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diceplayer said:


> Which part do they not care about? The orgasm? The great feeling afterward?


years ago when Dr Laura Schlesinger had her syndicated radio talk show, almost every night there would be some gal that would call in and said she had kids and had PTA meetings and soccer games and 4H meetings that she had to get to and that she was no longer in the mood but that her husband still wanted to have sex.

she would ask Dr Laura what she could do or say so that her husband wouldn’t keep wanting to have a sex life.

Without missing a beat, Dr Laura would ask her what it was about orgasms that she did not like. 

Of course that was met with silence on the other end.

Dr Laura would ask again what it was about living and pleasure and orgasms that she didn’t like.

Silence and then some stammering. 

Then would come the inevitable, “But I’m not in the mood.”

Dr Laura would then go into explaining the concepts of responsive desire in 1990s verbiage and terminology.

And she did a pretty dang good job of explaining that if a wife is never going to be in the mood for a sex life, that the husband will soon not be in the mood to remain either faithful or even married at all.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> I got told tonight to lower my expectations on sex because I just need to realize that the majority of the time we have sex it will just be for my benefit since she’s just not that into it. She also told me that most wives are probably like this and that’s why I needed to lower my expectations. Take it or leave it approach.
> 
> I’m giving this until after the holidays before I make a decision on what I should do. I do not want to be in a marriage with sex this way the rest of my life, that’s for sure.


Wow. I’m sorry to hear that. I’d be out the door. 100%.

Last night I thought the stars would align for some sober sex, but again just as it was lights out time she turned on her stomach. I said aren’t we having our usual Tuesday night session half jokingly and she replied yes twice and laughed. That was the end of the conversation and she nodded off to sleep.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> Wow. I’m sorry to hear that. I’d be out the door. 100%.
> 
> Last night I thought the stars would align for some sober sex, but again just as it was lights out time she turned on her stomach. I said aren’t we having our usual Tuesday night session half jokingly and she replied yes twice and laughed. That was the end of the conversation and she nodded off to sleep.


Dr Psych Mom has a podcast from September 2nd titled, “Every Time You Promise Sex You Don’t Give, An Angel Dies In Heaven.”

it is about people promising lovins later or the next day but then have an excuse and don’t deliver.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Dr Psych Mom has a podcast from September 2nd titled, “Every Time You Promise Sex You Don’t Give, An Angel Dies In Heaven.”
> 
> it is about people promising lovins later or the next day but then have an excuse and don’t deliver.


Shall I send my Wife the link to read it ha.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> Shall I send my Wife the link to read it ha.


it is a podcast, but yeah DPM explains the damaged and resentment caused by rejecting your spouse and then promising to do it “later” but then having another excuse and another rejection when ‘later’ rolls around.

She likens it to telling the kids you don’t want to take them for ice cream or to the amusement park today but saying you will do it tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes your not in the mood to take them to ice cream or you’re too tired or there was too much to do around the house or that they hadn’t cleaned up the garage like they said they would etc etc

if a parent does that to a kid all the time, they’d be a shtty parent. But some people think it’s perfectly ok to treat their partner like that.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> it is a podcast, but yeah DPM explains the damaged and resentment caused by rejecting your spouse and then promising to do it “later” but then having another excuse and another rejection when ‘later’ rolls around.
> 
> She likens it to telling the kids you can’t take them for ice cream or to the amusement park but saying you will do it tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes your not in the mood to take them to ice cream or you’re too tired or their was too much to do around the house or that they hadn’t cleaned up the garage like they said they would etc etc
> 
> if a parent does that to a kid all the time, they’d be a shtty parent. But some people think it’s perfectly ok to treat their partner like that.


to be honest my wife rarely promises anything when it comes to sex.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Hey, our wives must be sisters as I have heard that one before too! Heard the "most wives" line as well too when I told her I was just trying to make our sex life better and heard "most wives our age don't care about sex very much anymore".


The come back should have been, "Then I guess I need to look for a newer model"


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Last night I thought I’d attempt to initiate again. She didn’t get straight on her front in bed so after a few cuddles I moved my hand below her waistline. Her arm literally shot down fast and pulled my hand back up.

I didn’t move away straight away as I didn’t want to come across as bothered by it. When I did retreat to my side of the bed a couple of mins later she moved over and rested her head on my chest.

I just find it bizarre i really do. Tomorrow we’re having a few drinks for her father’s birthday and if I did the same thing as I did last night she’d not be pulling my hand away.

Im going to speak to her at some point and say this isn’t working for me. I’m not prepared to have a sex life with someone who doesn’t initiate and then when I do whilst we’re both sober I get rejected. Pretty sure any new man she’d meet wouldn’t either. Then again I very much doubt she’d be like that.

The conversation needs to done whilst sober also.


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## Catt73yxyyy (2 mo ago)

I’m 49 and spouse is 49. I always get rejected


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

We had this dynamic for a bit in our 40s. She would reject 90% of the time. When she did give in, it was just duty sex. This went on for about six months, and I finally had enough. 

I asked her to sit down and I needed to speak with her. I am generally a pretty plain spoken guy. I told her that this disinterest in having sex with me was not acceptable. I pointed out our vows said to "forsake all others" and not "forsake each other". 

I told her straight up that if there was something I was doing or not doing, she needed to tell me. She said it was not me or anything I had done. 

I told her straight up, sex is an important part of bonding in our marriage. That if she had a physical problem, I could understand, but she had told me nothing. I told her I would never try and force her to have sex, but I was not going to accept the dead body sex anymore.

I pointed out that she has 100% control of her vagiba and sexuality, but she doesn't have the only one on the planet. I told her we have two paths. (1) we fix this or (2) we get divorced and I find a woman who will want me. 

We worked it out. We dealt with a dead bedroom in our fifties that was caused by my cancer, but by then, we maintained other forms of intimacy.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

BootsAndJeans said:


> We had this dynamic for a bit in our 40s. She would reject 90% of the time. When she did give in, it was just duty sex. This went on for about six months, and I finally had enough.
> 
> I asked her to sit down and I needed to speak with her. I am generally a pretty plain spoken guy. I told her that this disinterest in having sex with me was not acceptable. I pointed out our vows said to "forsake all others" and not "forsake each other".
> 
> ...


So out of curiosity, what did SHE do to make things better? Sounds like she was already having sex but it was duty sex, what did she do to make improvements that met your expectations?


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## BootsAndJeans (4 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> So out of curiosity, what did SHE do to make things better? Sounds like she was already having sex but it was duty sex, what did she do to make improvements that met your expectations?


We learned to communicate better and she learned to let me know when I did something that irritated her. She realized that she had become completely identified as being "Mom", and the stress of two teenagers had built up. 

I also realized that I had become too comfortable and was taking her for granted. I had stopped being romantic. We did counseling together. 

So to answer your narrow question....She started communicating better (as did I). Telling and comprehending. This is when we read and did the "His Needs/Her Needs" book and exercises.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> Last night I thought I’d attempt to initiate again. She didn’t get straight on her front in bed so after a few cuddles I moved my hand below her waistline. Her arm literally shot down fast and pulled my hand back up.
> 
> I didn’t move away straight away as I didn’t want to come across as bothered by it. When I did retreat to my side of the bed a couple of mins later she moved over and rested her head on my chest.
> 
> ...


@BIL310,

Does your wife have a drinking problem? Do you?

You mention drinking or being sober and sex in the same sentence a lot. What role do you think the alcohol is playing? Does alcohol affect her selfishness?

IME, one can have a better sex life replacing the alcohol with THC.

Also, IME, it is possible to push or pull someone in a particular direction, get the results one thought desirable (more sex), but still be unhappy because the results didn’t come from a place of attraction, value, and generosity — but rather came from arm twisting and fear. Those minor victories along the way consume time and are not the same as relaxed, pleasurable, and joyous living. Something best considered, now rather than later.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

PieceOfSky said:


> @BIL310,
> 
> Does your wife have a drinking problem? Do you?
> 
> ...


Drinking wise we have a drink together once a week on average, Usually on a Friday after the working week. We don’t drink at all usually Monday to Thursday.

Drinking seems to loosen her up. Which would be fine maybe if we had a couple of glasses of wine every night instead of 10 on a Friday. 😂

I’ve had this for years now. I want a regular norma sex life with my wife. Not someone who shares children and a house with and have sex here and there after a drink always on her terms.

I agree with what you’re saying hence why it’s hard to bring up youd like to think it would happen naturally but I’ve tried lots of things over the years, passively and not passively.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> Drinking wise we have a drink together once a week on average, Usually on a Friday after the working week. We don’t drink at all usually Monday to Thursday.
> 
> Drinking seems to loosen her up. Which would be fine maybe if we had a couple of glasses of wine every night instead of 10 on a Friday. 😂
> 
> ...


You can get drunk chicks in bars. 

If your only options are getting with some drunk chick once a weekend, it might as well be a drunk chick from the bar because then you can toss her out when you’re done and you don’t have to put up with her the other 6 days out of the week.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> Drinking wise we have a drink together once a week on average, Usually on a Friday after the working week. We don’t drink at all usually Monday to Thursday.
> 
> Drinking seems to loosen her up. Which would be fine maybe if we had a couple of glasses of wine every night instead of 10 on a Friday. 😂
> 
> ...


Sounds like our situations are very similar, except you are having way more sex than I am. Not sure how long you’ve been at it. I am mid 50s, 30 years in, the beginning was pleasurable, everything since kids has been problematic in the bedroom, the last 10 years have had a couple of year or two year long stints of absolutely nothing sexual. 

I am shocked and embarrassed how my wife has used substances to make sex with me bearable. It is a recent revelation, stemming partly from her claim she’s never had sex with me without drinking. My only consolation was the great sex she had earlier with others was probably easier because of age and other substances.

Just wanted to mention it is easy to spend years trying to get someone to do what that someone does not want to do. Engagement (rare) on the problem can feel like you are getting somewhere, but if the person doesn’t even want to want to provide what you are looking for, that person will always find a way to make it fail. Unless she can convince you she has the same goal (wanting to WANT to have sex with you), and will do what it takes to be intentional in solving it, there is not much to pin hope on. The temporary improvements in frequency etc will always feel hollow, when and if they happen. Just my experience. Yours may be or may have been different. Just be careful about the passage of time.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> You can get drunk chicks in bars.
> 
> If your only options are getting with some drunk chick once a weekend, it might as well be a drunk chick from the bar because then you can toss her out when you’re done and you don’t have to put up with her the other 6 days out of the week.


100% correct.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

PieceOfSky said:


> Sounds like our situations are very similar, except you are having way more sex than I am. Not sure how long you’ve been at it. I am mid 50s, 30 years in, the beginning was pleasurable, everything since kids has been problematic in the bedroom, the last 10 years have had a couple of year or two year long stints of absolutely nothing sexual.
> 
> I am shocked and embarrassed how my wife has used substances to make sex with me bearable. It is a recent revelation, stemming partly from her claim she’s never had sex with me without drinking. My only consolation was the great sex she had earlier with others was probably easier because of age and other substances.
> 
> Just wanted to mention it is easy to spend years trying to get someone to do what that someone does not want to do. Engagement (rare) on the problem can feel like you are getting somewhere, but if the person doesn’t even want to want to provide what you are looking for, that person will always find a way to make it fail. Unless she can convince you she has the same goal (wanting to WANT to have sex with you), and will do what it takes to be intentional in solving it, there is not much to pin hope on. The temporary improvements in frequency etc will always feel hollow, when and if they happen. Just my experience. Yours may be or may have been different. Just be careful about the passage of time.


Im sorry you’re in that situation. Passage of time has now stretched into years.

Last night sort of came to a head. I promised myself not to bring anything up after a drink that went out the window.

All my friends were out for a drink and I’ve not been out with them for a while now; anyway because it was my Father in law’s birthday we did them a meal in our house.We both made a big effort for them but half way through the evening I brought up the subject of nights before Christmas and said I need to sort a night out with my friends. My wife’s face changed and said we’ve got a holiday to pay for in January.

I said I haven’t been out for months I don’t have work Christmas parties (as I’m self employed) and I’m going out with my friends. She wasn’t mentioning money last week when I took her away for 2 nights. Anyway that annoyed me.

the night continued then my brother started messaging me saying my father is annoyed because we don’t invite him and my mother to things anymore, holidays and nights out and things like the meal. My mother is miserable and moans about everything but that’s another story.

My wife asks what’s my brother is saying so I tel her but say don’t mention anything in front of her parents and make them feel bad about our evening.

anyway they go home and we’re sitting there having a drink and she goes to me, why do you look so miserable, I could tell she was ready for an argument so I gave it to her with both barrels.

I said if she goes on a date with someone new and says by the way, I’ll very rarely initiate sex, and when you do whilst I’m sober I’ll probably reject you. We might have sex after I’ve had a few drinks which is once a week or maybe if you catch me at the right time the next morning whilst I’m hungover and so are you.

what would a new man say?

Anyway I’m not stupid I know she wouldnt be like this with someone else so why should I accept it after 23 years.

Her reply last night was she’ll talk with me today. She won’t. It will be the silent treatment all weekend then the fantastic working week begins all over again. That’s the chance of sex over with also.

I don’t care anymore:


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

PieceOfSky said:


> I am shocked and embarrassed how my wife has used substances *to make sex with me bearable.*


This sounds soul killing! Coming to that realization, it is very difficult to imagine voluntarily remaining in such a situation. I mean if the wife doesn't want to be with me, I don't want her to be with me, and I don't want to be with her. Full stop. My conclusion would be that we made a big mistake getting married, time to rectify that mistake ASAP. This life is way too short with enough trials we don't control to continue in a travesty we have some agency over.



PieceOfSky said:


> Just wanted to mention it is easy to spend years trying to get someone to do what that someone does not want to do.


Yes, inertia. I get it. It is like staying in a soul-killing job for 30-40 years because changing careers is perceived as being too risky. We only have so many trips around the sun. It is a sad thing to waste even one of them in misery without at least trying something different. At least seeing what is on the other side of the mountain would be worth the trip.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Rus47 said:


> This sounds soul killing! Coming to that realization, it is very difficult to imagine voluntarily remaining in such a situation. I mean if the wife doesn't want to be with me, I don't want her to be with me, and I don't want to be with her. Full stop. My conclusion would be that we made a big mistake getting married, time to rectify that mistake ASAP. This life is way too short with enough trials we don't control to continue in a travesty we have some agency over.
> 
> 
> Yes, inertia. I get it. It is like staying in a soul-killing job for 30-40 years because changing careers is perceived as being too risky. We only have so many trips around the sun. It is a sad thing to waste even one of them in misery without at least trying something different. At least seeing what is on the other side of the mountain would be worth the trip.


I think if guys didn't get hurt so badly financially, many more situations like this would end up in divorce a lot sooner.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think if guys didn't get hurt so badly financially, many more situations like this would end up in divorce a lot sooner.


Exactly! This is why I put up with it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Exactly! This is why I put up with it.


I know I would be gone. Its just I spoke to an attorney recently about my situation as its been getting worse and he indicated I could get stuck with paying alimony as well as the splitting of assets. He figured that could be $1k per month until she either remarried or got a job. That could be forever essentially.

Urgh.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think if guys didn't get hurt so badly financially, many more situations like this would end up in divorce a lot sooner.


Guys wouldn't get "hurt badly financially" if they married someone with close to their same earning potential. If you are splitting assets that you both contributed to earning, it shouldn't be a "hurt bad" financial situation.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I know I would be gone. Its just I spoke to an attorney recently about my situation as its been getting worse and he indicated I could get stuck with paying alimony as well as the splitting of assets. He figured that could be $1k per month until she either remarried or got a job. That could be forever essentially.
> 
> Urgh.


She doesn't work? Do you have young kids together or something? Because why else wouldn't she be working?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think if guys didn't get hurt so badly financially, many more situations like this would end up in divorce a lot sooner.


So let's apply some critical thinking to this. What can guys do so that they don't get hurt so badly financially when things do not work out in a relationship? What can they do differently so that they do not become financial prisoners in dysfunctional relationships?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

GoodDad5 said:


> Exactly! This is why I put up with it.


See post 231.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

E


BIL310 said:


> Im sorry you’re in that situation. Passage of time has now stretched into years.
> 
> Last night sort of came to a head. I promised myself not to bring anything up after a drink that went out the window.
> 
> ...


Years ago when my wife was all wrapped up in mommy mode and I barely existed, I got to a breaking point. I can't do sex 3x month and remain emotionally connected to my wife. I got to a place where I knew when i divorced I could find better that what I had at the time. 

We finally communicated, she quit talking in innuendos and I quit holding in the emotions when hurt and angry. She finally understood that I was not the typical guy. Sex was about MUCH more that an orgasm, it was to me, her way of showing me she gave a crap and that she loved me. It was at it's breaking point and I was about gone.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> So let's apply some critical thinking to this. What can guys do so that they don't get hurt so badly financially when things do not work out in a relationship? What can they do differently so that they do not become financial prisoners in dysfunctional relationships?


Not get married in the first place??? I admit I was bait and switched as I mentioned in another post. While dating, sex was great, she had a great job and went to the gym everyday. Now, the sex is lame, she doesn't work and has put on a lot of weight.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Guys wouldn't get "hurt badly financially" if they married someone with close to their same earning potential. If you are splitting assets that you both contributed to earning, it shouldn't be a "hurt bad" financial situation.


I did. Unfortunately saying "I do" seemed to end that all. I guess its my fault I didn't end it sooner. Shame on me for hoping and trying to make things better.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I think if guys didn't get hurt so badly financially, many more situations like this would end up in divorce a lot sooner.


Guys don’t get hurt bad financially unless they have to pay alimony or child support. Generally speaking, if you both work for a living, there will be no alimony. The default is 50-50 custody, so generally little or no child support is ordered.

Sure, you will split your assets but half of those things were always hers. If she has a 401k, you get half of her assets just as she gets half of yours.

College educated women initiate 90% of their divorces. It’s not because of money. They simply view marriage not as a lifetime commitment but one that lasts so long as she is happy.

Modern men are unequally yoked. Men need to either start filing for divorce at a much higher rate or stop marrying at all.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Not get married in the first place??? I admit I was bait and switched as I mentioned in another post. While dating, sex was great, she had a great job and went to the gym everyday. Now, the sex is lame, she doesn't work and has put on a lot of weight.


Well if she has great earning potential, and you are deciding to end things soon after your realized the bait and switch why would you pay her alimony? Maybe you would not have to. It's usually paid when someone has been a SAHW for a long time and had no earning potential. 

I hope you are making a big stink about: wtf, why are you quitting your job? kinda thing. Maybe she can get it back.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> College educated women initiate 90% of their divorces. It’s not because of money. They simply view marriage not as a lifetime commitment but one that lasts so long as she is happy.


This is just one article that popped up in a search but many studies show college educated people divorce at a lower rate than those with less education. 

Now it may be true that women across all education spectrums initiate divorce at higher rates than men at that education level but I question that women with college educations are more likely to divorce than less educated women. 

Most statistics show that divorce decreases with education level. 









Why Does the Divorce Rate Decrease as Education Level Increases?


Learn more about Why Does the Divorce Rate Decrease as Education Level Increases? from the experts at The Marriage Restoration Project.




themarriagerestorationproject.com


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I did. Unfortunately saying "I do" seemed to end that all. I guess its my fault I didn't end it sooner. Shame on me for hoping and trying to make things better.


And by hoping and trying to make things better you waited too late. I’ll make a prediction that you’ll never get out — and she knows it. Yes, she totally played you but you allowed it.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> She doesn't work? Do you have young kids together or something? Because why else wouldn't she be working?


I suspect because she doesnt want to work. Kinda like she doesnt wanna have sex with him. She does what and when she wants cuz she can. No consequences.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Well if she has great earning potential, and you are deciding to end things soon after your realized the bait and switch why would you pay her alimony? Maybe you would not have to. It's usually paid when someone has been a SAHW for a long time and had no earning potential.
> 
> I hope you are making a big stink about: wtf, why are you quitting your job? kinda thing. Maybe she can get it back.


@FloridaGuy1 attorney told him it would cost him $1k/month until she got a job.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Well if she has great earning potential, and you are deciding to end things soon after your realized the bait and switch why would you pay her alimony? Maybe you would not have to. It's usually paid when someone has been a SAHW for a long time and had no earning potential.
> 
> I hope you are making a big stink about: wtf, why are you quitting your job? kinda thing. Maybe she can get it back.


I think they’ve been married for about 10 years. His second marriage (not sure about her). No children. She hasn’t worked for years and won’t IIRC.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

oldshirt said:


> So let's apply some critical thinking to this. What can guys do so that they don't get hurt so badly financially when things do not work out in a relationship? What can they do differently so that they do not become financial prisoners in dysfunctional relationships?


Insist on a prenup that provides the following:

1) No spousal support

2) Except in cases of adultery/cheating, the party who files divorce (Petitioner) gets 30% of the marital assets and the Respondent gets 70%.

3) In cases of adultery/cheating, the betrayed spouse gets 70% and the wandering spouse gets 30%.

That will deter divorce and cheating.

Also: do not allow (or become) a SAHW or SAFH.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Openminded said:


> I think they’ve been married for about 10 years. His second marriage (not sure about her). No children. She hasn’t worked for years and won’t IIRC.


Ooh. So he remained in a relationship for 10 years in which she didn't work and it wasn't that they had joint small children? Why would he do that if he wasn't happy with the situation? Like, the first month after she refused to work why didn't he say, contribute or I'm done with this marriage?

I'm not asking you specifically, Openminded 😉


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Livvie said:


> Ooh. So he remained in a relationship for 10 years in which she didn't work and it wasn't that they had joint small children? Why would he do that if he wasn't happy with the situation? Like, the first month after she refused to work why didn't he say, contribute or I'm done with this marriage?
> 
> I'm not asking you specifically, Openminded 😉


I’ve definitely wondered the same.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

Rus47 said:


> This sounds soul killing! Coming to that realization, it is very difficult to imagine voluntarily remaining in such a situation. I mean if the wife doesn't want to be with me, I don't want her to be with me, and I don't want to be with her. Full stop. My conclusion would be that we made a big mistake getting married, time to rectify that mistake ASAP. This life is way too short with enough trials we don't control to continue in a travesty we have some agency over.
> 
> 
> Yes, inertia. I get it. It is like staying in a soul-killing job for 30-40 years because changing careers is perceived as being too risky. We only have so many trips around the sun. It is a sad thing to waste even one of them in misery without at least trying something different. At least seeing what is on the other side of the mountain would be worth the trip.


The soul killing phase is over. I survived. I think my potential to experience joy is intact. I am able to compartmentalize. At least I enjoy my work, and certain activities. I have devalued the weight of her opinion and experience of me, and/or become a more centered and less needy person. Part of it feels like growth, and part loss. I have no idea how I would feel or be in a new relationship, even one where the intimacy would easily flow. I like to think I’d drink it in, be naturally me, and be a loving partner with joy to receive and give in abundance.

There was a period where I fretted over the cost of having two households, while the kids were younger. To be clear, finances were never a “justifiable” reason for me to stay; any interference from financial concerns with my will to leave would have been self-deception.

Worries about alimony are foreign to me. I live in a state without alimony, except temporary and when certain disabilities are in play. 

I know financial concerns are real and always present factors for many. Not only husbands, but wives too. There is much written here on TAM about the cost to husbands, especially husbands with stay at home moms and young kids. Not much written about the plight of women who are trapped with awful husbands while staying home with the kids, and not much potential for earning a decent living wage now or near/in retirement— or at least not able to see a way forward towards sustainable independence. It’s unfortunate, all those situations. (And I’m sure there are similar with genders reversed, or for same-sex relationships.) Ot surely is easier for two to live on one set of savings, than each on half of that or one on even less. I consider myself lucky there.

There can be more to it than inertia. I view my staying as conscious choices I made at different times. I had fairly concrete plans to leave, and we lived unofficially/unacknowledged separate lives the last couple years my kids were in school. There are events that can happen in a heart beat, and one sometimes chooses to stay awhile longer. I would say to those younger than me, health issues and familial deaths can start happening the older you get, and you might be tempted to factor them into your go/stay decision when they do. It may be you are never going to be freeer in your heart to leave than now. Don’t waste it.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> Insist on a prenup that provides the following:
> 
> 1) No spousal support
> 
> ...


The enforceability of Prenups is always debatable.

it’s always questionable if prenups can ever usurp state law. As a general principle, one can not agree to a contract not supported by law.

as an example, an employer cannot contract with an employee to work for less than minimum wage if that employee is so desperate for money that he/she agrees to it. If the labor board were to come down on the employer for not paying minimum wage, the employer would not be able to present the contract claiming the employee agreed to it.

So if state law states the marital assets will be divided roughly 50/50 upon divorce, the enforceability of a prenup stating a 70/30 division would be highly suspect regardless of conditions.


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

CraigBesuden said:


> 2) Except in cases of adultery/cheating, the party who files divorce (Petitioner) gets 30% of the marital assets and the Respondent gets 70%.


can you imagine the abuse and torment one would set themselves up for if that were actually enforceable? 

The thing we need to keep in mind is the reason things like no-fault and 50/50 division of assets and 50/50 custody were designed in the first place was so that people could get out from under abusive and exploitive situations to begin with because some people are simply assholes and b1tches and mean that intentionally mistreat their spouses.

If someone knows that if their spouse will only get 30% of the marital assets if they file for divorce, that will give them license to treat their spouse as bad as they want.

And since you are looking at this from the perspective as women being the ones filing for divorce, let’s apply your idea in how it may actually manifest. What if the woman cuts off the man completely and double dog dares him to file for divorce her and get 30% of the assets.

look at the conversation just a few posts above - men are already being held hostage in sexless marriage with 50/50 division of assets. How many men are going to escape sexless marriage if if they were to only get 30% of the marital assets?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

PieceOfSky said:


> older you get, and you might be tempted to factor them into your go/stay decision when they do. It may be you are never going to be freeer in your heart to leave than now. Don’t waste it.


Good points.

For sure, as we grow older we are less willing to pack up and move on to an unfamiliar life. The comfortable known even without a decent love life becomes preferred to starting over. In my case, at my age, the only reason would split is if the wife started being hard to live with. We could very easily finish out this life together enjoying the happy memories so long as we treat one another with kindness.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

Divinely Favored said:


> E
> 
> 
> Years ago when my wife was all wrapped up in mommy mode and I barely existed, I got to a breaking point. I can't do sex 3x month and remain emotionally connected to my wife. I got to a place where I knew when i divorced I could find better that what I had at the time.
> ...


I need to have this conversation. Last week I got rejected 4 times Monday to Thursday, we had an argument on Friday but did have sober sex on Saturday - probably the first time we had sex sober in 6 months or more. Last night we'd been out with friends for a meal and drinks and again I was rejected.

A no turn down policy would make a massive difference to our marriage and sex life. I'm sick of having that sickly feeling in my stomach as she's getting into bed wondering if she's going to reject that night. Making constant effort like having a shave (as I know she doesn't like stubble when kissing) night after night all for nothing. Even taking viagra (not much just small bites) and then she turns me down.

She seems to enjoy sex most of the time, especially when sober! We just don't have it enough.

I'm going to sit her down at some point this week, and ask her how she feels about our sex life, and suggest a no turn down policy (even if its for 30 days just to see how she feels after it). I'm not going to be initiating sex every night, or randomly in the middle of the day (not yet anyway ha) but it would certainly be nice to be able to look forward to sex and not have that anxious feeling beforehand, wondering if its going to happen, then getting performance anxiety because of the need to make the most of opportunity.

It will make me feel emotionally connected to my wife probably in a way I've not been for a long time and hopefully her to me.

Of course if it's time of the month, or she's sick etc then I'm going to initiate or expect anything.

No idea how the conversation is going to go, or what I'm going to do if it doesn't go well. I do know however that after reading some of the responses here where they have relationships with hardly any rejection excites me. Especially after being in this situation for so long. It's opened my eyes that my situation isn't normal for some.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> I need to have this conversation. Last week I got rejected 4 times Monday to Thursday, we had an argument on Friday but did have sober sex on Saturday - probably the first time we had sex sober in 6 months or more. Last night we'd been out with friends for a meal and drinks and again I was rejected.
> 
> A no turn down policy would make a massive difference to our marriage and sex life. I'm sick of having that sickly feeling in my stomach as she's getting into bed wondering if she's going to reject that night. Making constant effort like having a shave (as I know she doesn't like stubble when kissing) night after night all for nothing. Even taking viagra (not much just small bites) and then she turns me down.
> 
> ...


I can tell you already, in advance, how that conversation is going to go, unfortunately.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

BIL310 said:


> No idea how the conversation is going to go, or what I'm going to do if it doesn't go well.


I think you actually know very well how it will go, which is not well. And how many arguments have you had about this same subject in your marriage? If your wife were agreeable to not turning you down she wouldnt be turning you down.



BIL310 said:


> Especially after being in this situation for so long. It's opened my eyes that my situation isn't normal for some.


Unfortunately, the experiences of other couples doesn't translate to any particular couple. You’ve had years of being rejected, so both you and your wife are used to that dynamic. Other couples who have never rejected one another don’t make any difference to your specific situation.

Maybe you said, but have you ever broached couples therapy with a sex therapist? Several contributors have used MC successfully to impress the gravity of the situation on the recalcitrant spouse.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Livvie said:


> I can tell you already, in advance, how that conversation is going to go, unfortunately.


Probably about as good as mine did!! Not even.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> I need to have this conversation. Last week I got rejected 4 times Monday to Thursday, we had an argument on Friday but did have sober sex on Saturday - probably the first time we had sex sober in 6 months or more. Last night we'd been out with friends for a meal and drinks and again I was rejected.
> 
> A no turn down policy would make a massive difference to our marriage and sex life. I'm sick of having that sickly feeling in my stomach as she's getting into bed wondering if she's going to reject that night. Making constant effort like having a shave (as I know she doesn't like stubble when kissing) night after night all for nothing. Even taking viagra (not much just small bites) and then she turns me down.
> 
> ...


my recommendation is to basically do the exact opposite and just drop the whole sex subject for a period of time.

part of the problem is you trying all the time which is just an annoyance and pressure for her which just becomes a bigger turn off for her and lowers your value and attractiveness in her eyes.

you’re like the rat that presses the bar for food.
If you want the rat the press the bar all the time, you only give him a food pellet at infrequent and unpredictable times. 

the rats knows he gets food due to his pushing the bar but he doesn’t know when, so he just sits there and presses the bar all day long hoping that one of those times will dispense the food.

you’re doing the same thing and it’s pissing her off and making you look like… well a desperate, manipulated rat.

if you get turned down on Monday, one of the worst things you can do is to hit her up again Tuesday.

you gotta let this whole thing reboot. Back off and quit acting like a rat manically pressing a bar.

let the dust settle for awhile, don’t be so needy and pressuring.

Give it some time and then if she simply doesn’t want to have a sex life with you or she can’t bring herself to be with you unless drunk, that’s something that probably needs to be addressed with a professional MC or sex therapist and not something where you try to browbeat her into putting out every day for God’s sake.

you’re trying to treat cancer with a home remedy poultice here.

give her room to breathe and not feel pressured and attacked……. Then if there is an actual structural problem in the sexual dynamics (which there surely is) then seek professional counseling and guidance.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> did have sober sex on Saturday - probably the first time we had sex sober in 6 months or more.
> 
> . It's opened my eyes that my situation isn't normal for some.


i don’t think you grasp the gravity of the situation yet even now. 

This is a real problem.

Someone only having sex when drunk is one of or a combination of a couple things.

One is a serious lack of attraction to where they have to chemically numb themselves up to be able to touch you.

The other is a serious anxiety issue to where they are so worried about stuff and so emotionally tense and uptight that they have to dull their senses and drown their inhibitions and hang ups in order to touch you.

…. and it’s likely a combination of both, but either way it is a serious problem that needs to be addressed and will likely need to be addressed in MC or therapy.

At this point you may both need IC to address each of your own personal demons as well.

And whether she has a lack of attraction and desire for you or whether she has an anxiety issue, trying to insist on a no rejection policy at this point will end in disaster either way.

Read the Marital rape thread if you want to see how your wife will feel about your no rejection policy.

There is a serious problem her and pressuring to take away her agency is going to trying to put out a house fire with a flame thrower.

This is not a differing libido issue. It is a serious marital and personal interaction issue.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

BIL310 said:


> did have sober sex on Saturday - probably the first time we had sex sober in 6 months or more. Last night we'd been out with friends for a meal and drinks and again I was rejected.


Im going to throw in a personal experience and anecdote of my own.

When we were in MC, this was one of my wife’s chief complaints and one of the things that pissed her off and turned her off the most.

If we did have a particularly good encounter, I would kind of ride that waves for days. It would pump me up and I would be feeling good and would be full of horny hormones and thinking about the night before would get me all horned up and wanting to go for Round 2.

My wife on the other hand was good and was basically going into something of a refractory period where her tank was drained and it would take a number of days to fill back up again.

If I was acting like Thumper Rabbit and wanting to go again, that was putting a lot of pressure on her when she just didn’t have the capacity to go again.

It was also instilling her with a sense of nothing she did would be good enough for me and that would also cause her to think the old “all-you-want-is-sex” and along with that came the resentment and bitterness.

it put her into a catch-22 situation where she couldn’t win. If we didn’t have sex, I would get all resentful and crabby and start pulling away etc etc.

But if we did have a good encounter, I would just get all turbo charged up and just want more. 

it’s like a kid on Christmas morning that got what he asked for but after all the Christmas presents were opened up, he just wants more.

Like I said, that was her main complaint in the sexual arena (the rest was the usual not doing enough the house or with the kids or with her family etc)

You hadn’t had sober sex in 6 months and you’ve been begging for sober sex for half a year, so what made you think it would be a good idea to try to get in her knickers again the very next day after you got what you wanted? (That’s a rhetorical question for you to ponder,,, I already know why you did cause I used to do the same thing myself)

If you don’t want to take my word for it, set aside some time and read through a bunch of posts in the low libido forum on Reddit. Continuous repetitive requests for sex is one of the things that piss off and turn off the low libido people most. If your nagging them day after day after day, you are just digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole. It’s making the situation worse.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

oldshirt said:


> Im going to throw in a personal experience and anecdote of my own.
> 
> When we were in MC, this was one of my wife’s chief complaints and one of the things that pissed her off and turned her off the most.
> 
> ...


i agree with what you are saying as advice _as it relates to this poster_, but want to add that not EVERY woman is like your wife, oldshirt. 

There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.


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## Lolati11 (Nov 29, 2017)

Me 42 him 59.Together 15 y married 9 y. I can’t remember the last time we had sex ! . Not for the lack of me trying or flat out telling him I want sex . I went as far as making a doctors appointment for him to make sure everything is alright down there . It’s all good he is just in full dad mode with his (not mine ) 27 year old son with troubles . The last 4 years I can count the times we had sex in one hand , I am waiting until after the holidays to talk separation . Love is just not enough


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Livvie said:


> There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.


Yep there are lot of women like that, and I'm happily married to one of them.

Of which despite what the naysayers claim, kills sexual desire in women. My wife has had wedding cake, inclusive of being 23+ years (26+ years together) into her first and so far only marriage. She has been on different birth control from the oral contraceptive pill, through the Mirena IUD), has raised now adult kids, inclusive of vaginal deliveries and breast feeding them. Has gone through menopause (isn't on any HRT), has survived breast cancer and thyroid problems. Has a full-time professional career. Does laundry, dishes, vacuuming, cleans the bathroom etc, cooks food, has friends, has hobbies and even uses social media. Yet she desires lots of sex, very frequently, and doesn't need to and has never self medicated herself in order to enthusiastically share that sex.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

this is a real issue for a lot of couples in general and there is no definitive answer. when most women throw at men that all they want is sex, well they're not far from the truth. we also need food and sleep. unlike women, men dont really go into nurture mode when children are born. we are biologicly ready to reproduce again and again. unless something goes wrong with a mans junk or hormones, then we can breed till we die. women have a finite time stamp, so the urge dies off quickly compared to men. its a huge driving force men are born with and doesnt just shut off. in the modern world of today its called high sex drive. most women are of average to low, especially once children are born. its a natural incompatibility issue. doesnt mean we cant recognize it and work together for a suitable compromise. sad part is as we get older, some of our wives just quit sexually and expect that this is ok and that this defines the relationship. its supposed to be two in the relationship, but we all know who has one hundred percent of the vajayjay! so who really controls who? the reason the women get exhausted with the pestering is because it is a driving force in us. if we seem irritable and edgy, what do you expect. when one is crawling through a dessert and dying from thirst and comes upon even a small amout of water, we drink till its gone and look for more and drink that all away also. starving for intimacy is not good for any relationship, doesnt matter whos not giving up the goods. this is a huge element for bonding in a couples life together. to remove this part or so limit it is a cruel thing.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

BIL310 said:


> A no turn down policy would make a massive difference to our marriage and sex life.


It really wouldn't help at all.

The fact that your wife feels for the most part (as proven by her actions), that she needs to get drunk, in order to share sex with you. Ought to be enough to tell you that she doesn't want to share sex with you. All of which wouldn't be helped by asking her to never turn you down.

That said given your situation, I don't know why you think trying to push the overfilled cart, backwards against big rocks up the hill, is going to make this better. When it would be sensible, to just let that cart roll down the hill to its fitting end.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

@BIL310 ,

You might Google for “sexual aversion” and “marriagebuilders”. There is an article on the marriage builders site that you might do well to read at this point. Also there is something like “policy of joint agreement” worth understanding.

You are between a rock and a hard place. 

One thing I never thought to do, when it might have mattered, is explain — without showing her any “sad” emotion — my desire for her, my desire for sexual fulfillment in this brief life, the disconnected feeling, the sense of loss I felt for what we had, and put the ball in her court, saying “What do you propose we do? What would you do if you were me?”

I think the only way to win is to find it in you to be happy either way, with her as a loving sexual partner in life, or without (and perhaps with someone else later). Be determined to not waste time, if she has a different goal. Let her see your willingness to face making hard decisions, somehow without threatening divorce too soon.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

PieceOfSky said:


> @BIL310 ,
> 
> You might Google for “sexual aversion” and “marriagebuilders”. There is an article on the marriage builders site that you might do well to read at this point. Also there is something like “policy of joint agreement” worth understanding.
> 
> ...


I don't think there is ever a winner in this game. When one partner gives up, but controls the relationship, it becomes the time when evaluating my happiness in this world, will it be with my partner or without. If we cannot share a basic fundamentals in a relationship, then it's a false relationship of codependency.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TinyTbone said:


> When one partner gives up, but controls the relationship,


Are you a man or a mouse?

C'mon man, surely you're better than this.

You control yourself and consequently control your marital relationship, just as much as your wife controls herself and her half of your marital relationship.

Seriously, for your own good. Please stop buying into this victim card nonsense, and stand up instead of wallowing in being pathetic.

So isn't it about time, you take responsibility for yourself? And stop with this idea that you're a victim, when you are a volunteer.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Hey, I dreamt I had sex with my wife last night... not only she didn't turn me down, she initiated and she was very wild...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.


I'm sure there are... but we don't know, because they are not posting on TAM...


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> my recommendation is to basically do the exact opposite and just drop the whole sex subject for a period of time.
> 
> part of the problem is you trying all the time which is just an annoyance and pressure for her which just becomes a bigger turn off for her and lowers your value and attractiveness in her eyes.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your reply but you've got this completely wrong.

I've dropped the whole sex subject before and nothing changed.

Initiating more is actually something that I haven't tried. We've got into a routine of generally only having sex on a weekend after a few drinks. So last week I decided to change things up and start initiating more, midweek. That didn't work really as she turned me down 4 times, although we did have sex on Saturday. Both sober, both orgasmed.

I completely agree however that repeatedly asking for sex and getting turned down isn't attractive and not something I'm prepared to put up with, hence why I've decided to see if she's up for the no turn down policy instead. Then I wouldn't need to initiate every night and look weak and needy, I wouldn't be pressuring her into sex 10 times a week. Maybe twice a midweek but knowing that when I initiate she's receptive.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> i don’t think you grasp the gravity of the situation yet even now.
> 
> This is a real problem.
> 
> ...


She's not drunk as such but has said she feels more relaxed after a few drinks, whether that's 2 drinks or 8.

I don't have any personal demons. 

I've read the marital rape thread and what I'm proposing is nothing of the sort. I'm not saying I expect her to go from current status to receptive 5 times a week. What I do expect in marriage is that if I'm the one who's always initiating (which I am), then when I do I expect her to be receptive more, (even if it's once or twice a week more).

This is a difference about libido, the majority of the time we do get on. Although when we don't it's usually down to her mood swings.


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## BIL310 (Apr 26, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Im going to throw in a personal experience and anecdote of my own.
> 
> When we were in MC, this was one of my wife’s chief complaints and one of the things that pissed her off and turned her off the most.
> 
> ...


Yes I agree with this. 

I'm not saying if she says yes to a no turn down policy I'm going to be initiating every night. The only reason I did on Sunday was because we'd been out for a few drinks and that's usually when we do have sex. There's lots of times we have sex after a drink, then next morning we go again.

The idea with no turn down policy is that I won't need to keep making continuous requests. Nor will I have to stop initiating like I generally do whilst sober because of the rejection.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Livvie said:


> i agree with what you are saying as advice _as it relates to this poster_, but want to add that not EVERY woman is like your wife, oldshirt.
> 
> There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.


Correct, but their husbands are not on relationship forums complaining about being in a sexless marriage or that they will only have sex when drunk.

when someone is rejecting intimacy for months on end, there is a problem and when the person that is being rejected continues to beg and badger the rejector day after day it makes the situation worse.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Correct, but their husbands are not on relationship forums complaining about being in a sexless marriage or that they will only have sex when drunk.
> 
> *when someone is rejecting intimacy for months on end, there is a problem and when the person that is being rejected continues to beg and badger the rejector day after day it makes the situation worse.*


I agree with you... I can't say, for example, that I "badgered" mt wife for sex, since it was twice a month, but the "pressure" is always felt and it doesn't help. In fact, it makes the situation a lot worse, as you say. That said, it's a lost battle, because if you don't ask you don't get, if you ask you put pressure on and you don't get, if you leave there is no guarantee you will find a woman who will have sex every day, every week, ever month, every year. I won't find one at 59 and starting again is not an option for me. I'm just not interested in a relationship - and all its trappings - again. But I'm glad I don't have to put up with that torture ever again. I'm sad, but relieved.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

ccpowerslave said:


> If my wife said that we’d be done. That’s a string along if I ever heard one…


Maybe he had a way of approaching that was turning her off? I'm not for that set up either though.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BIL310 said:


> Thanks for your reply but you've got this completely wrong.
> 
> I've dropped the whole sex subject before and nothing changed.
> 
> ...


Or, you could write her off as a wife and start taking applications for the next Mrs. @BIL310 .


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Livvie said:


> i agree with what you are saying as advice _as it relates to this poster_, but want to add that not EVERY woman is like your wife, oldshirt.
> 
> *There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.*


Absolutely and I'm married to one.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

@BIL310 

You seem to have already tried a lot of thing, so not sure if this will help, but I think these worth a read. Most are a quick read.









Are you sabotaging your sex life like I do? - Uncovering Intimacy


Wish you had more sex in your marriage? Here's some of they ways I've sabotaged our sex life. Maybe you'll recognize some of the patterns.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












6 ways to ensure you have a terrible sex life - Uncovering Intimacy


Research from the Sloan Center indicates there are 6 habits that sexually unsatisfied couples generally have. Find out what to avoid.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












How do I open up to my spouse sexually? - Uncovering Intimacy


A reader asks "How can I open up to my spouse sexually?" Here are some tips from our course on how to become more sexually engaged for Christian wives.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












3 myths that kill maintenance sex - Uncovering Intimacy


Here are three ideas that people have bought into that can kill maintenance sex, an important part of any marriage. Have you bought into any of them?




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












Is sex work? - Uncovering Intimacy


Is sex work for you? What about your spouse? Do you know? Now, for me, the answer is a hands down “No”. I mean, I work hard during sex, and my muscles get tired, I get sweaty and I’m very focused … but I would




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












The dishes can wait - How to make sex a priority - Uncovering Intimacy


Do you find that you're too tired at night after doing your household chores that you don't have energy left for sex? Why not switch the order around?




www.uncoveringintimacy.com












A day of sex - Uncovering Intimacy


Looking for something fun to try in your marriage? How about a day of sex? It's easier to manage than you think if you do it the way we did.




www.uncoveringintimacy.com


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> I agree with you... I can't say, for example, that I "badgered" mt wife for sex, since it was twice a month, but the "pressure" is always felt and it doesn't help. In fact, it makes the situation a lot worse, as you say. That said, it's a lost battle, because if you don't ask you don't get, if you ask you put pressure on and you don't get, if you leave there is no guarantee you will find a woman who will have sex every day, every week, ever month, every year. I won't find one at 59 and starting again is not an option for me. I'm just not interested in a relationship - and all its trappings - again. But I'm glad I don't have to put up with that torture ever again. I'm sad, but relieved.


Let’s follow the chain of events.

If someone is rejecting their partner consistently and continuously for months, it’s because they don’t want to have sex with them.

If someone does not want to have sex with their partner, then ANY requests, initiations, overtures etc will be perceived as “pressure.”

Any ‘pressure’ from the rejected party will exacerbate the problem and make it worse and add to the problems that make the other party not want to have sex with them even more. It becomes a Viscous cycle.

There for, the logical solution is to stop the situations and conditions that are exacerbating the problem and address the root causes of why that person does not want to have sex with you.

You don’t treat lung cancer by trying to get them to smoke more cigarettes in an attempt to kill the cancer cells by smoking them out.

thats what continually hitting on someone that doesn’t want to have sex is like.

you have to get them in a clean and hygienic environment that does not contribute to and exacerbate the disease and then address the cancer professionally.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> Let’s follow the chain of events.
> 
> If someone is rejecting their partner consistently and continuously for months, it’s because they don’t want to have sex with them.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree. My situation was a bit different, my wife having mental issues, but nevertheless I put pressure on her - rightly or wrongly - and that pushed her away even further. If, after some time, the situation is not solvable, pack your bag if you think you can't live without a satisfactory sex life.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> Yes, I agree. My situation was a bit different, my wife having mental issues, but nevertheless I put pressure on her - rightly or wrongly - and that pushed her away even further. If, after some time, the situation is not solvable, pack your bag if you think you can't live without a satisfactory sex life.


Yes.

Some causes for not wanting to have sex can be corrected.

Some cannot.

In either case, pressuring for sex will only exacerbate the problem and make it worse.

Address the cause and if it cannot be corrected, then the decision will need to made whether to suck it up and live with it vs outsource the sex vs dissolve the relationship.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Are you a man or a mouse?
> 
> C'mon man, surely you're better than this.
> 
> ...





Personal said:


> Are you a man or a mouse?
> 
> C'mon man, surely you're better than this.
> 
> ...


Please don't insult your intelligence. That was an observed statement, not an objective outline of my own relationship. Really?


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> I'm sure there are... but we don't know, because they are not posting on TAM...


They are not married


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I won't find one at 59 and starting again is not an option for me.


I am betting that you COULD find someone if you wanted to. And why wouldn't starting again be an option? You likely have at least another 2 decades of active life ahead.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> There are also.lots of women in the world who DO love to have sex many days in a row. Week after week, year after year.


Love your input @Livvie .

There are far too many women who love getting stuffed on a regular basis (some double stuffed 😋) to waste good wang on sexually retarded women.

It really is partially a denied man's fault for putting up with this nonsense.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> I am betting that you COULD find someone if you wanted to. And why wouldn't starting again be an option? You likely have at least another 2 decades of active life ahead.


Scary thought 😅


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I won't find one at 59 and starting again is not an option for me.


Hmmm. I won't pretend to know your environment but I meet women, pretty regularly, that are in the 40-60 age range that are sure as hell hot to trot.

Are you referring to something besides a lack of willing women or is there a real lack where you are?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> Hmmm. I won't pretend to know your environment but I meet women, pretty regularly, that are in the 40-60 age range that are sure as hell hot to trot.
> 
> Are you referring to something besides a lack of willing women or is there a real lack where you are?


I live in a small village, so, yes, not much going on and online dating is just a waste of time. Too much effort right now.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Scary thought 😅


Scary?!? Why? If you are referring to your age, I am nearing two decades older and having the time of my life. We have a widow and widower friend who married at 80. They are having the time of their lives. Personally I believe the companionship lengthens a person's life and makes it much more enjoyable. Somewhere there is a 50-60 yo female longing to meet someone just like you.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> Love your input @Livvie .
> 
> There are far too many women who love getting stuffed on a regular basis (some double stuffed 😋) to waste good wang on sexually retarded women.
> 
> It really is partially a denied man's fault for putting up with this nonsense.


Exactly! Went to urologist for follow up yesterday on how well the T cream works. My wife says "Be sure to tell him that you have been trying to F**k me to death!"😜😂

I said I have not, it has only been around 4 days a week lately, for 45 min to an hour. She said, "That is because it is deer season and you have been tired from the physical exertion and early mornings/late nights. It is usually more often than that."

"Oh...don't get me wrong daddy. I'm not complaining"😋🥰


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> Scary?!? Why? If you are referring to your age, I am nearing two decades older and having the time of my life. We have a widow and widower friend who married at 80. They are having the time of their lives. Personally I believe the companionship lengthens a person's life and makes it much more enjoyable. Somewhere there is a 50-60 yo female longing to meet someone just like you.


I will be 100% honest with you: not sure that a 60 years old woman will be able to give me the regular sex I want. I think you are a special case, but at that age most women will want companionship. I really don't have the inclination to start looking for that needle in the haystack. I'd rather do without and enjoy my own company...


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> *I will be 100% honest with you: not sure that a 60 years old woman will be able to give me the regular sex I want.* *I think you are a special case,* but at that age most women will want companionship. I really don't have the inclination to start looking for that needle in the haystack. I'd rather do without and enjoy my own company...


I think a *LOT*, (maybe most) 50-60-70-80 year old women are wanting the same as what you want, AND companionship. Just because we are old doesn't mean we lose interest. I believe the haystack is full to the brim with needles.

Don't believe we are any special case at all. There are several others in their 60s and 70s on this site that are having a lot of fun together. And, we know a few couples close to our age well enough that to know their love life is as full as ours. The women sometimes share tidbits with the wife and men with me. Innuendos.

Just because we get old doesn't mean that the urge to merge disappears.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> I think a *LOT*, (maybe most) 50-60-70-80 year old women are wanting the same as what you want, AND companionship. Just because we are old doesn't mean we lose interest. I believe the haystack is full to the brim with needles.
> 
> Don't believe we are any special case at all. There are several others in their 60s and 70s on this site that are having a lot of fun together. And, we know a few couples close to our age well enough that to know their love life is as full as ours. The women sometimes share tidbits with the wife and men with me. Innuendos.
> 
> Just because we get old doesn't mean that the urge to merge disappears.


Quality improves with age.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Rus47 said:


> I think a *LOT*, (maybe most) 50-60-70-80 year old women are wanting the same as what you want, AND companionship. Just because we are old doesn't mean we lose interest. I believe the haystack is full to the brim with needles.
> 
> Don't believe we are any special case at all. There are several others in their 60s and 70s on this site that are having a lot of fun together. And, we know a few couples close to our age well enough that to know their love life is as full as ours. The women sometimes share tidbits with the wife and men with me. Innuendos.
> 
> Just because we get old doesn't mean that the urge to merge disappears.


This is not my experience, by what I have heard and what I've been told personally... I've had my marriage, my kids, I don't need to restart from scratch. I guess when your marriage fails you are not particularly keen to start over again, just in case you get hurt again. I'm sure it's me.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

In Absentia said:


> This is not my experience, by what I have heard and what I've been told personally... I've had my marriage, my kids, I don't need to restart from scratch. I guess when your marriage fails you are not particularly keen to start over again, just in case you get hurt again. I'm sure it's me.


Have you been listening to SINGLE women in your age range about this, OR to/about _MARRIED women in marriages to men they have no attraction to_ (and are staying with him for the perks of marriage, and not because they love and desire him)?

Because....world of difference between the two. You wouldn't be dating the narried woman who has no interest. You'd be dating a woman who actually had interest in and desire for you, otherwise she wouldn't be dating you

There is a huge difference.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> This is not my experience, by what I have heard and what I've been told personally... I've had my marriage, my kids, I don't need to restart from scratch. I guess when your marriage fails you are not particularly keen to start over again, just in case you get hurt again. I'm sure it's me.


Who mentioned kids? It’s about “having fun.”


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> Have you been listening to SINGLE women in your age range about this, OR to/about _MARRIED women in marriages to men they have no attraction to_ (and are staying with him for the perks of marriage, and not because they love and desire him)?
> 
> Because....world of difference between the two. You wouldn't be dating the narried woman who has no interest. You'd be dating a woman who actually had interest in and desire for you, otherwise she wouldn't be dating you
> 
> There is a huge difference.


There are stats that the STD rates in elderly in FLA. have increased greatly. Why...because those old folks are getting around! The blue pill only gave the elderly men the ability to do what the elderly women wanted to from the get go.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Divinely Favored said:


> Exactly! Went to urologist for follow up yesterday on how well the T cream works. My wife says "Be sure to tell him that you have been trying to F**k me to death!"😜😂
> 
> I said I have not, it has only been around 4 days a week lately, for 45 min to an hour. She said, "That is because it is deer season and you have been tired from the physical exertion and early mornings/late nights. It is usually more often than that."
> 
> "Oh...don't get me wrong daddy. I'm not complaining"😋🥰


Key up some bedroom tunes. I told wife when kids are out, I'm installing a stripper pole in the bedroom so she can dance for daddy.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Who mentioned kids? It’s about “having fun.”


Not in the sense that I want more kids... but I feel that I've had my family and my kids and that in a sense there isn't much more I can accomplish in my life. New relationship? Maybe. But I've come to the conclusion that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Have you been listening to SINGLE women in your age range about this, OR to/about _MARRIED women in marriages to men they have no attraction to_ (and are staying with him for the perks of marriage, and not because they love and desire him)?
> 
> Because....world of difference between the two. You wouldn't be dating the narried woman who has no interest. You'd be dating a woman who actually had interest in and desire for you, otherwise she wouldn't be dating you
> 
> There is a huge difference.


You might be right. I just seem to be totally disillusioned at this point in life.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> Not in the sense that I want more kids... but I feel that I've had my family and my kids and that in a sense there isn't much more I can accomplish in my life. New relationship? Maybe. But I've come to the conclusion that what I'm looking for doesn't exist.


Don’t sell yourself short. There are women who find you attractive. And who want sex.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Don’t sell yourself short. There are women who find you attractive. And who want sex.


Well, you've never seen me in person, but I think you are right...


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

In Absentia said:


> I will be 100% honest with you: not sure that a 60 years old woman will be able to give me the regular sex I want. I think you are a special case, but at that age most women will want companionship. I really don't have the inclination to start looking for that needle in the haystack. I'd rather do without and enjoy my own company...


Mrs. C turns 63 in less than a month and we went like gangbusters last night and are both walking funny today.😉

I meet older women that are really wanting some action as well.

I do believe your environment for meeting women is a lot smaller than mine however.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

In Absentia said:


> This is not my experience, by what I have heard and what I've been told personally... I've had my marriage, my kids, I don't need to restart from scratch. I guess when your marriage fails you are not particularly keen to start over again, just in case you get hurt again. I'm sure it's me.


ok but you are talking about MARRIAGE.

yes there are likely a lot of people that do not want to deal with remarrying, estate planning, dealing with joining finances and health insurance/life insurance, don’t want to be closely involved with other’s children and family, don’t want to spend the holidays with some other family etc etc etc etc etc etc

BUT they still want to have a fun and entertaining and even romantically/sexually intimate relationship with someone.

And I think @Livvie makes a great point above that the attitudes, agendas and demeanors of married women who have been with the same man for 30+ years is going to be completely different than a single/divorced/widowed woman.

yes, unfortunately if you poll a group of married women who have been with the same man for 35+ years, as a general trend that narrative will probably not sound very sex positive.

However I have the feeling if you asked a group of single women who have just started seeing someone new, some of that narrative will sound like you’re talking to teenage girls.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> I do believe your environment for meeting women is a lot smaller than mine however.


I'm just being realistic. I'm pretty sure they would be some, but I don't have the mental energy to start from zero. It's just too much effort.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

oldshirt said:


> ok but you are talking about MARRIAGE.


No, I'm not talking about marriage. I'm saying that I've done all that and I feel I have achieved all there is to achieve in life... of course, apart from a successful marriage. Where I am, the possibilities are very limited and I won't do OLD. Unless I move to a bigger place, I have no chance. And I'm not really interested right now because I'm still nursing my wounds.


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