# Push/pull dynamic?



## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

In attempts to simplify my problems, I've come to the realisation that I have a nasty habit in marriage called push/pull, what wifey calls "rollercoaster".

Borderline Personality Disorder Push-Pull Dynamic
Codependent Relationships Dynamics - Come Here, Go Away

Looks like the problem is identified, and can be treated. I've been playing the push and pull game naturally over the years, and ironically it has served me well up to now.

I hope my wife isn't reading this because she wants us to drop it now and forget everything but meh, no matter what she says I doubt she'll be happy in the long run and nor will I if we continue our dysfunctional mechanics. (And a part of me wants her to know... for some reason)

Any self-help books you can recommend?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

How did you come up with these ? Did you take tests online? I just did a post on another thread with a test link - but it wasn't yours. And are these both YOUR issues? 

What about her , is she close to anything ?

Here was my post on another thread ...

This test covers 10 Personality Disorders : Should give some idea is one it itching in any certain direction and needs some help, if nothing else. 

Personality Disorder Test




> 1. Narcissistic- individual has a grandiose view of themselves, a need for admiration, and a lack of empathy that begins by early adulthood and is present in various situations. These individuals are very demanding in their relationships.
> 
> 2. Schizoid- individual generally detached from social relationships, and shows a narrow range of emotional expression in various social settings
> 
> ...


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Amazon.com: borderline personality disorder: Books

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ps&field-keywords=codependent+books&x=11&y=22 (Co-dependent list on amazon)


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

RD, I'm realizing that my GF has strong BPD traits. 
I swing between feeling bad for her - "it's *not* her fault that she acts like this! she has a disease!" - to feeling angry - "The disease IS the behavior. If she can't control that, none of us control anything!" 

Etc. 

It's frustrating.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

RD you need a professional assessment. Self diagnosis is not the way ahead in these things mainly because if you get it wrong you may well take the wrong paths to overcome what it is you think ails you. And that is serious time wasting and full of complications.



You do have a massive thing going for you in your favour and it’s something that personality disordered people typically don’t have. And that is a willingness to believe there may be something wrong with you and you are willing to work on it. My younger sister was diagnosed with borderline years ago. She’s been under the care of a mental health team for over a decade. Yet still to this day she thinks she’s ok.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

SoWhat said:


> RD, I'm realizing that my GF has strong BPD traits.
> I swing between feeling bad for her - "it's *not* her fault that she acts like this! she has a disease!" - to feeling angry - "The disease IS the behavior. If she can't control that, none of us control anything!"
> 
> Etc.
> ...


What was your girlfriend's childhood like?


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## SoWhat (Jan 7, 2012)

Conrad,
Seems atypical for a BDPer - both parents strongly involved throughout. Positive role models. Worst thing I see is that the mother bullies the father. No real abandonment anywhere in there.

She was left by her first husband and a subsequent fiance, however. Strong abandonment stuff there.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

The problem with counselling is that I can logically explain each and every one of my behaviours and justify my mistrust in people, and she actually disagrees with past diagnosis when I was a kid with PTSD and ASPD, or that I have overcome that myself which I have - but my experiences has fostered a much darker view of the world then most people.

My temper also has a short fuse though it's rather mellowed over the years - well, sort of, say the wrong thing and I still confront it rather aggressively and even violently. My wife for some reason no matter what evil she spits at me I will never hit her, well... unless it's during makeup...

Psychoshrinks I'm wary off however, as I had a bad experience with them in my youth. Hence I believe in self-analysis, because I have no trust in the mental health departments, and counselling is just useful for sanity and empowerment to solve my own problems myself anyways.

As for other kids who went through what I went through, I've noticed I've been better off, I no longer do crime, I do NOT and will NEVER neglect or hurt my child - but I will seriously damage anyone who does no matter the consequences (I'm worried about my own reaction to her future boyfriends though), I have always been financially independent since I was 12 without the welfare system thanks to falling through an oversighted loophole.

But... the symptons of refusing to trust, or pushing them away, it's not just from my childhood also my lifetime on the streets. If people can get away with it, they will, as there is no morality. That is the truth I learnt. Love was pathetic, and I was pathetic to desire it, to be dependent is to be pathetic, to love is to be pathetic, to care for someone is to be pathetic, to trust someone's word is to be pathetic.

Love is a drug and it is fake, never give into the illusion
Dependency is also an illusion, you'll always be left alone
To care is to be weak, as that someone will be your loose end
It's never who you trust, it's WHAT you trust them to do
Trust only your instincts... this is what I taught myself for years as I grew up from 12 years of age.

Guess I became the parent and mentor for myself that I never had. I've changed much over the years after I turned legit, I've allowed myself to love, to care, I still struggle with interdependency at times, and I'm not so hard on myself (though I still should be) when it comes to enjoying life such as drinking and having fun.

But now... meh
I guess I still have to keep pushing to take it the next step up
Logically and instinctively it just makes no sense, but I know I want it, I know deep inside I wish I can just tell my wife I love her everyday but even if I want to sometimes I get nautious and sick with myself for even having such a thought!

Bah! 
Sorry, I need to vent

And hell I find it so much easier to tell a forum full of random people how much I do love my wife then to actually let her know in person. Meh, she'll probably read this eventually.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

That darker view must be difficult. You might want to try getting into Buddhism, might be something in it for you to help you lighten it.

You don’t stand by yourself RD, none of us do in that we are all connected to each other in one way or another. Most especially you’ll have massive connections to your daughter and wife and some of those are invisible such that you cannot see or feel them but they are there and very very strong. It’s connections at the emotional, spiritual, physical, psychological, heart and soul levels. Those special people in our lives are quite literally a part of us and right there in our psyche at its deepest levels. We don’t truly understand these things until they are no longer with us and we grieve their loss.

What I’m trying to say is what you are “thinking and feeling” is not just down to you. Because of my situation I undertook mental health assessments because at times I thought I must be crazy based on what was going on around me with my wife and son. I just could not make head nor tail of it. I still can’t in some ways, its just too crazy to understand.

You do sound quite enlightened. To really see yourself in your interactions with your wife read Awareness by Anthony de Mello. A lot of mentally challenged people with personality disorders (I’m not saying you are one) just cannot detach and see themselves from the third person perspective and therefore never change their dysfunctional behaviour.


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## Unloved11 (Jan 17, 2012)

Subs... I never said anything against you for this...

You think too much


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## bellamaxjoy (Oct 27, 2011)

I have to say this again RD. I have had a HORRIBLE past, but I overcame it and DO NOT LET IT AFFECT MY NOW. RD if you would give up all that past crap, quit using it as an excuse for this or that, and just FIX the problems you are having , in this moment with the issues at hand, not 20 year old issues. Sir, alot of us have had terrible aweful things happen, but I REFUSE to let those things define me, I DEFINE MY FUTURE, NOT MY PAST. stop making excuses PLEASE!


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

bellamaxjoy said:


> I have to say this again RD. I have had a HORRIBLE past, but I overcame it and DO NOT LET IT AFFECT MY NOW. RD if you would give up all that past crap, quit using it as an excuse for this or that, and just FIX the problems you are having , in this moment with the issues at hand, not 20 year old issues. Sir, alot of us have had terrible aweful things happen, but I REFUSE to let those things define me, I DEFINE MY FUTURE, NOT MY PAST. stop making excuses PLEASE!


For those with terrible pasts, blameshifting is such a seductive weapon. It's almost like they don't know they're doing it.


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## dymo (Jan 2, 2012)

If he does have BPD, that's always something one can just "get over" in an instant. It's encouraging that he's taking steps to address it. Not just for his marriage, but for himself.

I would agree that it would be wise to get the opinion of a professional, at least to confirm you're on the right track. BPD does seem to fit, put none of us are qualified to make such a diagnosis.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

@AFEH

Which one? 

Amazon.com: Awareness (9780006275190): Anthony DeMello: Books

Amazon.com: Awareness: The Perils and Opportunities of Reality (9780385249379): Anthony De Mello: Books


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

Amazon.com: Awareness (9780006275190): Anthony DeMello: Books


I've just read some of the reviews there. It’s not about Religion at all.

For me it gave me the capability of seeing myself, of getting away from my self and looking back in, especially my interactions with other people. It’s more Eastern than Western teachings.

I think in some ways it helps you see the world as maybe a woman does. You know when you walk in a room full of people instead of focusing on yourself you are detached from yourself just noticing who is interacting with who and maybe what those interactions mean. Women are absolutely phenomenal at observation and making sense of body language and behaviour. It’s far more than second nature to them, it comes so very natural.

I think many of us men always have this internal dialogue going on and we are really focused on that. And on top of that dialogue we are at the same time feeing our emotions as they occur. So in essence we are so very preoccupied with our “self” we can totally miss what is going on around us.

Anthony de Mello helps us drop our preoccupation with our self and observe, became truly aware of what is happening all around us. And simply because we become aware of it, we watch and observe it, change for the better in our life begins to happen somehow of its accord.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

I need to get that book. I've noticed you recommend it a lot, sounds like the kind of thing I'd find really fascinating.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

tobio said:


> I need to get that book. I've noticed you recommend it a lot, sounds like the kind of thing I'd find really fascinating.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


For a few reasons it’s particularly valuable when there are dysfunctional dynamics/interactions in a marriage.


First of all using the techniques it slows things down simply because you are taking the time out to observe. So if there’s poking/digging going on, you simply do not respond at all for a while most especially with knee jerk reactions, so things don’t escalate so quickly. There is also a “detachment”, an emotional detachment from the interaction. Sure you will still feel the emotions but you are unlikely to respond to them immediately, anger, sadness that sort of thing.

One of the big things I got out of it is to be able to “see” my contributions to the dysfunctional dynamics. I can see now that I was mainly a “responder” and I responded to my wife’s digs whereas before all I was really aware of my emotions generated by my wife’s digging, which was typically anger. After a while of implementing the lessons from the book I began to clearly see how my wife was manipulating me through my emotions and how I was responding to that manipulation.

It was like I could see it all happening as a third party bystander, or a person in the audience in a theatre watching a critical point in a drama on the stage. It was immensely revealing.


It can be a life changing book.


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## Acorn (Dec 16, 2010)

I bought this book based on your recommendation when you were commenting on one of my threads and it was as advertised - a book like no other. Has really helped me in a lot of ways.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Acorn said:


> I bought this book based on your recommendation when you were commenting on one of my threads and it was as advertised - a book like no other. Has really helped me in a lot of ways.


It's a fantastic book.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

There’s a few here, both men and women who have found great benefit from reading the book. It’s very heartening for me.


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