# Is it over now? Need advice guys



## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Hi all

Not been here for a while, well a few years to be fair. Briefly, 6 years ago husband had EA then broke down and told me everything, full disclosure, nasty to hear but full all the same. All good, counselling talking time etc etc, we carry on, then 3 years after he admits that something has 'almost' happened with yet another co worker. At this point I wanted a divorce, looked into all of this but then decided to hold out. I know what you are going to say here, but honestly for me, it just wasn't the right time, with our children and lives, so we carry on again. Once again, he is absolutely remorseful, transparent and makes the effort to keep going and work at our marriage. 

Ok, so the past three years I have tried. Tried really hard really hard. I'm hard work, stroppy cow at times, and I've not made it easy for him, but he's stuck it out, as have I. But, I've not liked him much. I've told him many times that I'm not happy, he's openly tried to talk and sort things but despite this, and temporary good feelings, I've not been happy, because I guess that I always feel on edge, waiting for the next revelation. So, now it feels like a better time, and I've told him that I want a separation or divorce. He is heartbroken, he cries and told me that he understands but that he will always wait for me, that he has been such a fool and only wants me. He says that he knows that this is all his fault, he will take the full hit, whatever I want. Ok, so all seems straightforward. 

But, here's the crux, I love him, always will, he's not a bad guy, he's a fantastic dad, I fancy him, our sex life is good. I just don't trust him anymore, and that hurts so much. He knows all of this and swears that he has learned from his past mistakes, but is it too late? Can I ever trust him? Without trust are we doomed? What do you think? Do we try counselling again, or cut our losses here? I am so very confused and unsure, it's destroying me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

He needs counselling to make himself a better person.

Then, when he is a better person, you might, if he is very, very lucky, start to trust him again.

I think a lie detector might help using the Jeremy Kyle three question format would be a good idea.

1) During your relationship and marriage to MUL have you ever passionately kissed anyone else? 

2) During your relationship and marriage to MUL have you ever had any sexual contact with anyone else?

3) During your relationship and marriage to MUL have you ever had sexual intercourse with anyone else?

And get STD tests done and tell him you are doing this because he has broken your trust in him.


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Thanks Matt Matt, your words are sensible and grounded, as I remember you always were/ are. He agreed to std check before, as I said, he's always been transparent and compliant with anything that I asked for, as reassurance for me. He has been honest, however painful that has been to hear from my angle. Maybe these questions are the way forward before anything final so to speak??


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

So am I understanding correctly that the last known incident of inappropriate behavior was 3 years ago and that to your knowledge there has not been any further incidents?

Has there been a more recent event that has triggered your wanting to hit the ejection handle or have you gotten to the point that waiting for the other shoe to fall and living life as a marriage cop has just exhausted you made life generally not good anymore?

Until you clarify those questions I will make one statement and ask a couple questions.

First a general statement - There really is no statute of limitations on this kind of stuff. Some people make an honest effort to reconcile for many years then simply run out of steam and can't do it any more. No one is guaranteed a successful reconciliation when they cheat. That is the risk people take when they reach into the wrong cookie jar. 

Then a question - 

Have you been through professional counseling and have either of you been through individual counseling?


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## dawnabon (Mar 11, 2017)

My husband swore up and down he'd learned too. But he hadn't. 

So he's saying there's been nothing physical? I'd definitely do the lie detector. And I would make him move out so you can get some clarity about what you want. 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Oldshirt - thank you, nothing recent guess it's like you say, I just can't keep living with the worry and almost fear I suppose, that it's going to happen again.
We've had couples counselling after the first time but he wasn't great, so not hugely beneficial. We've both had individual counselling, which for me works well at the time but then the fog comes back and drags me down.

Sounds like I've low self esteem, I know, and yes, there are some issues but in all honesty, not being bigheaded, I am an attractive woman who easily gets lots of male attention - should I chose to seek it it would be there, however I think that when you're happy you don't look. Can't understand why my hubby doesn't view life this way. When we are out I think that because I fancy him that everyone else will, when in reality he's not all that. It just messes with my head.


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Dawnabon - thank you too, yes I think the idea of him moving out for a while may help also. He always swears that he doesn't want to leave but he did agree last night to do whatever I felt was necessary, so this is an option.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

And these are just some of my own personal musings and not directed to your specific situation, but I do not believe we are ever guaranteed a life of bliss and comfort and no one is ever guaranteed that their spouse won't pack up and leave or cheat or die in the middle of breakfast and fall face first into their bowl of cheerios at 30 years old (used to be paramedic and that was an actual case I had one time - it really happened exactly as described)

You could fall in love with someone at your work, have a hot and heavy affair, pack up your bags and leave him next week just as easily. No one is immune from the risk. 

There are people here who were happily married for 25 and even 30+ years and their spouse was a great parent, great husband/wife, pillar of the community and devote and active member of the church and then one day they started getting the warmies for someone else and before anyone knew a thing they were meeting in the broom closet at work or in the car in the park or at Motel 6 over their lunch break. 

You could leave him and live in peace and be able to let your guard down for awhile and breathe easily again for a period of time. But eventually you would want a special someone in your life and you would start to date again and perhaps even remarry or even start another family. 

But there would be no guarantees the next wouldn't cheat or the one after that and there wouldn't be any guarantees that you wouldn't fall for someone else after you remarried either. 

If he was actively mistreating you or currently involved with someone or did not appear to be genuinely remorseful or not doing his share of the heavy lifting, I would be the first person to tell you to turn and pack your stuff. 

And as I said above there is no statute of limitations on long it's been that a person is no longer eligible to opt out. I would never point a finger or judge someone leaving someone that cheated on them and it appears your H is of that mindset as well and understands that himself. 

But you are never going to completely escape the specter of infidelity and you are never going to guaranteed of never encountering it again unless you join the convent and never become involved with someone again. 

There is a fine line between being vigilant and responsible and being paranoid. Perhaps you even have a bit of PTSD over your last episodes. 

I understand how exhausting it is to always be looking over your shoulder and always waiting for the next shoe to fall and I understand how it can taint the very core of a relationship. 

Trust me, sometimes it is better to save your soul and get out so you don't live day by day, hour to hour and minute by minute in fear. 

But that has to also be balanced by the fact that we are never guaranteed a free lunch or life of perfect stability and calm. We all roll the dice and take our chances. 

My personal opinion here is that this may be a counseling issue for you. My advice is to seek your own personal counseling and have a professional work with you individually to address your fears and concerns and figure out how to best address them. 

Perhaps it will be best for you to dissolve the marriage and get away. 

Perhaps it is best for you to learn to better deal with your fears and apprehensions and learn to live a life of relative happiness and contentment until the other shoe does drop, if it ever drops at all.


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Thank you so very much Oldshirt. That is all ❤ Xxx


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

messeduplady said:


> Thanks Matt Matt, your words are sensible and grounded, as I remember you always were/ are. He agreed to std check before, as I said, he's always been transparent and compliant with anything that I asked for, as reassurance for me. He has been honest, however painful that has been to hear from my angle. Maybe these questions are the way forward before anything final so to speak??


Thank you! 

Just take it easy, counselling for him and for you and as a couple would be of benefit, I feel.

Threaten to put him on the Jeremy Kyle Show. >


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

Shouldn't admit this, as a professional type of lady, but I secretly LOVE Jeremy Kyle and his show - always serves to make you feel better about your own life imo 😂🤣😂


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

messeduplady said:


> Oldshirt - thank you, nothing recent guess it's like you say, I just can't keep living with the worry and almost fear I suppose, that it's going to happen again.
> We've had couples counselling after the first time but he wasn't great, so not hugely beneficial. We've both had individual counselling, which for me works well at the time but then the fog comes back and drags me down.
> 
> Sounds like I've low self esteem, I know, and yes, there are some issues but in all honesty, not being bigheaded, I am an attractive woman who easily gets lots of male attention - should I chose to seek it it would be there, however I think that when you're happy you don't look. Can't understand why my hubby doesn't view life this way. When we are out I think that because I fancy him that everyone else will, when in reality he's not all that. It just messes with my head.


Probably because he is the one with the self-esteem issues?

I was -apparently- often hit on by other women, but I did not realise this. My wife realised this, but I didn't. Why? I could not imagine anyone being interested in me. And yes, this did put me at risk of getting into scrapes because I did not realise that I might have been a "catch" for a woman.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

messeduplady said:


> Shouldn't admit this, as a professional type of lady, but I secretly LOVE Jeremy Kyle and his show - always serves to make you feel better about your own life imo 😂🤣😂


My wife -who trained as a psychologist- put me on to watching Jeremy's show!


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

messeduplady said:


> Oldshirt - thank you, nothing recent guess it's like you say, I just can't keep living with the worry and almost fear I suppose, that it's going to happen again.
> We've had couples counselling after the first time but he wasn't great, so not hugely beneficial. We've both had individual counselling, which for me works well at the time but then the fog comes back and drags me down.
> 
> Sounds like I've low self esteem, I know, and yes, there are some issues but in all honesty, not being bigheaded, I am an attractive woman who easily gets lots of male attention - should I chose to seek it it would be there, however I think that when you're happy you don't look. Can't understand why my hubby doesn't view life this way. When we are out I think that because I fancy him that everyone else will, when in reality he's not all that. It just messes with my head.


You and I were posting at the same time so please see post #8 where I advise to seek further IC. 

I think this is an issue where you are in your own head with a thousand different thoughts and feelings and fears etc going through your head and IC will help you sort them out and help you determine which course of action would be best for you. 

As far as your comment about his mindset being different that yours - *it is. * He is a different person so he is going to have a different perspective and a different set of responses and drives and agendas etc. 

I'm going to shamelessly stereotype here, but in general the male hard drive programming is to seek "more."

The female hard drive programming is to seek, "the best."

On a deep instinctual level a male is always on the hunt and ready to pounce. On a deep instinctual level, a female may be content if there is a lack of something 'better' readily available, but if something that checks off all of her boxes as 'better' becomes available, she is just as likely to stray. 

None of that justifies actually cheating or makes it ok of course. But that is how men and women can have such differing responses if an opportunity becomes available to them.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

messeduplady said:


> Dawnabon - thank you too, yes I think the idea of him moving out for a while may help also. He always swears that he doesn't want to leave but he did agree last night to do whatever I felt was necessary, so this is an option.


If I was your husband, I would not leave. 

And if your husband were to also write in here to this forum, I would advise him not to leave as well and would advise him that if you are the one that is wanting out that you should be the one to pack your stuff and load the truck and find another place. 


in general if people want the marriage to survive, then assuming there is no violence or terrible fights and no mistreatment or continuing, recalcitrant adultery, it is almost always best to remain together in the marital home. 

Once someone is out of the house, it becomes easier and easier to move on as single individual and harder to come back together as a married couple. 

In the case of one party wanting to remain in marriage and the other wanting out, IMHO it is on the one wanting out to pack up bags, load the truck and find another place. 

This is assuming the other party is currently acting in good faith. 

You would have been 100% in your right to have kicked him out when he was cheating or in the immediate aftermath of D-Day. 

But if he has had 3 years of good behavior and good faith effort to restore the marriage, then he should not be the one to move out if you are the one having problems dealing with it. 

If you want out, you can find moving boxes and get them packed and you can find your own place to stay and you can look up movers and you can carry your stuff up the 3 flights of stairs to your new apartment. 

If you're willing to put in that effort and are willing to wipe that sweat from your brow, then all the power to ya. 

But if he is wanting to remain in the marriage, then he does not have to make any of this easy for you and is not obligated to do any of your lifting. 

If you want out of the marriage, that is your prerogative. But if he has put in 3 years of good-faith effort, then IMHO if you want out, you can pack and haul your own boxes. 

And if you do that, that will also send a stronger message of your own resolve than if you make him do it. 

If he tries to assuage his own guilt by being your obedient little puppy, that really doesn't give him any message other than you want to kick him around a little more after 3 years. 

But if he watches you spend days packing and loading boxes and carry furniture up 3 flights of stairs - that's a pretty powerful message to everyone.


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## messeduplady (May 31, 2012)

You are very sensible Oldshirt, thank you again for a very measured response. You have given me much to consider x


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

It's logical not to trust him, because he has shown himself not to be trustworthy at least in the past. It's up to you to decide if you can live without trust. I don't believe that you will have the same feelings and fear in a new relationship, that really wasn't my experience. Do I trust implicitly, no but trusting implicitly is not realistic. Do I feel peace about this? Yes. However a lot my peace comes from the fact that I know even if she cheated I would be alright. My happiness is not dependent on her fidelity. I understand that her cheating would not be on me (if it were to happen) it's not a reflection on me or my worthiness. Getting to this point has really taken away much of the fear. Part of that was accepting that I didn't really have control over her, but also not to make all my happiness about our relationship. Finally the idea that nothing could be worse then the first time because at the time I really didn't believe I would ever get over it. However I survived and thrived. 

But then again I didn't stay with the person who cheated on me. Moving on and finding love again with someone else shows you that there really isn't just one person who is your soulmate and love doesn't really work like that, destiny and all that stuff. It's more about attraction, mutual commitment and character. Once you know that there are probably a whole bunch of people you could have a romantic relationship with, you stop holding on to the defective ones. I would say the most important thing you can do for yourself is to get to this point. Then you will be more empowered to make the decision. Yes it's true you can never escape the possibly of infidelity, but you can sure take away it's power over you. 

Coming from that point of view I see it like this, it's one thing to fear someone will cheat on you it's another to know they did. My decision would be more about what type of person I was married to not what makes me the safest (in the sense of the devil you know kind of way which is what we are talking about). Plus many times people who cheat are just not really capable of being in a monogamous relationship, at least not without a huge commitment to change. Also just because he was unfaithful doesn't mean that everyone is. There are still plenty of men who understand loyalty. I know there are people out there who won't cheat because I know I am one of them. Finally I don't want to be married to someone I don't respect. To me it comes down to quality of life. 

The overall point is if you can get over the fear you will be able to make a less emotional choice, and in my mind that is a better place to be in.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> messeduplady
> But, here's the crux, I love him, always will, he's not a bad guy, he's a fantastic dad, I fancy him, our sex life is good. *I just don't trust him anymore*, and that hurts so much. He knows all of this and swears that he has learned from his past mistakes, but is it too late? *Can I ever trust him?* Without trust are we doomed? What do you think? Do we try counselling again, or cut our losses here? I am so very confused and unsure, it's destroying me.


You do not have 100% trust in him and that is understandable. Know this, thinking that you are going to find someone that you trust 100% is folly and a fantasy. The question is how much trust is good enough for you? I was in your shoes many years ago and now have around 90+% trust in my wife and that has worked for us for over 20 years.



> Can I ever trust him?


From what you have posted about him “he’s always been transparent” and “has been honest”. Those are two very important factors in building up trust.

Are you using the real issue of low trust as reason for you to try and see what else in life you think you are missing? *You are an attractive woman that men are interested in so my guess is that you have thought on several occasions about how your life would be if you left your husband. Am I right?*

You have every right to leave your husband but are you going to get a better man?



> “… he's a fantastic dad, I fancy him, our sex life is good.”


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

You can love him to death and he can still be wrong for you.

You have the head and the heart conflicting. They need to be in sync. Head almost always protects you and heart is the risk taker. You've already taken risks with him, so I think it's time to be a bit more cerebral in your choices, even if they bring emotional pain or sadness. You can recover from those feelings given enough time.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two thoughts. First, tell him you expect him to find a really good therapist and start going at least twice a month. Most men who start up EAs, in my opinion, do so because they feel inadequate in some way and "need" the ego strokes from new women. I think it goes back to the junior high locker room, when getting a girl to choose you was all that mattered. Those who weren't that successful take it with them, that shame, to adulthood. Therapy would help him realize he IS valuable and maybe not need those ego strokes anymore.

Two, get the book His Needs Her Needs and read it together, discuss it, take the questionnaires that come with it, and you'll learn how to have such a great marriage that neither of you would ever consider blowing that with an EA. Assuming your H is a good guy, of course, and not just a jerk who doesn't care what you want.


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

what about a post nup?

would he sign one?

If you had two affairs, how would he feel? could he trust you?

would he still be around? you are right to not trust.

past behavior is a good indicator of future behavior. hope he shares what he is learning in IC.

me- I will never marry again.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

harrybrown said:


> what about a post nup?
> 
> would he sign one?
> 
> ...


Post nups are not legally binding in the UK, unfortunately.


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