# I cannot trust him, can I?



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Something is bothering me. This morning had coffee together, chatted about lots of things. Then came to work and I asked him to help put me in touch with a business contact I needed to talk with. The contact is a good friend of my H’s friend. Now this friend (I’ll call him X) I heard from my H is having a thing with an OW so I don’t like him (obviously). 

H: you wouldn’t want X’s help, you don’t like him
Me: you can’t blame me, he betrayed his wife
H: (indignantly) He didn’t betray his wife
Me: You were the one who told me he went off one night with that OW! (now this is the OW I suspected my H of doing something with in 2011-2013, my H admitted meeting her, talking about business but then his friend went off with her! This friend is a womaniser. That is the night he didn’t come home! I have questioned him, recorded him explaining his way out of it and he sounded nervous and I think he was lying. The day I confronted him about it after a few years, he rushed home in the middle of the work day to placate me, we had a huge row. He went on business called me up saying he didn’t want things to be like this between us, and was all upset. He has been in a rush to move on, move on and refuses to look at the past. 
Now as I write this, from an objective view, he cheated, its simple, but I do not have the evidence). 

H doesn’t want to engage and walks off
Then comes back and changes conversation
Me: why do you do this?
H: I am not going to set myself to be so self righteous and judge him

I just drop it

The thing is any conversation about adultery (others we know) he goes like this, defensive, evasive, I am not judging, etc. It pisses me off because as a married man he should be more definitive about these things but he is just dismissive.
It bothers me on two levels
1.	he is guilty and knows it – I don’t have the evidence (I mentioned this elsewhere). He wouldn’t be guilty about the one I do know about, as it was so long ago and sort of dealt with
2.	His standard of morality is very low and I should be worried

This conversation has triggered everything again and I am going back to a bad place. I was great this last few weeks, f*** I hate my H for putting me through this ****. I am sitting here crying while writing this. 
He left this morning, after kissing me all cheery and all was great and now I feel like s***! 
What do I do? If I dig this up again, he’ll just deny deny deny and I will go around in circles, but if I ignore it, it will come back to haunt me over and over. How can I trust my H? How can I reconcile with him is this big black stain in right in the middle of our marriage?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

How can you trust a man who is dishonest? 

That's easy: you can't.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Ok, i did not ask the right question. Can I trust my H based on what I have said?


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## LosingHim (Oct 20, 2015)

Only you can answer if you can trust your husband. 

Trust is a feeling, right?

If your gut is saying no, then I don't believe you can.

But only you can decide whether or not to keep trying.

Is he showing he wants to change and not being secretive? Or are these things just bigger red flags?


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

I don't think so. People who are against adultery for themselves *generally *don't defend adulterers. However, there are some exceptions where people just don't want to be what they consider unreasonably judgmental, so it isn't definitive.

But you seem to be pretty certain that he is doing something underhanded, even if you don't have the evidence.

So the real question is whether you want to stay with him, knowing what you do know. It doesn't sound like you do, but maybe you can lay out the pluses and minuses here?


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## nursejackie (May 22, 2015)

You know he's a liar and you think he's a cheater. Go to MC to help you work through this. If you want to stay you can learn to be less co dependent and find a way so that your happiness doesn't depend on whether or not he lies. Its basically the 180.

Good Luck - I am in the same boat as you. It is not easy.


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## TeddieG (Sep 9, 2015)

aine, love, he wants to rug sweep.


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## BrokenLady (Jan 19, 2015)

When my H had his first A I completely rug swept it (for several different reasons) but at least I had a pretty good idea of what had been going on in the end. I feel for you, I truly do. It's horrible. For me, several years passed & I very rarely thought of it...lots of 'life' happened, births, death, life altering stuff. When the subject of adultery came-up there was that awkward feeling. I stupidly NEVER said anything though.

More time passed & a friend of ours appeared to be persuing an affair & filing for divorce. We were both shoulders for her & her H. My H said out of the blue, "I know this must be dragging-up terrible memories for you. I'm so sorry that I put you through that!". Then another friend was caught by his W having online sexual A's & my H said "Stupid, STUPID man! What is he doing? He's risking everything for nothing. He will never forgive himself for the pain he's caused his W. stupid man!!". 

It was things like that....the ability to hear about infidelity without feeling guilty, embarrassed & withdrawing from me (which caused EVEN more pain)...that really finished the healing. I felt safe, secure, loved, FAMILY & it was lovely.

I don't know if you guys will be able to reach that point with the BIG FAT LIE hanging over his head. I really don't! Without some truth the words Affair, Betrayal, Adultery, Cheating etc will continue to torture your emotions & degrade your marriage. I think you need to try to explain that to your H. It's the lies & distance that cause the most damage in my experience. 

The times lately that I've felt we've made some headway from my H's recent EA have been when I've written & printed articles on the subject for him to read & us to discuss. Maybe that could help you get through to him. Knowing that proffesionals wrote articles on this stuff stopped the "Neurotic, over emotional, unreasonable wife" stuff....


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm not sure you will fully get over being upset. He needs to come clean and have a sincere apology in place. He needs to answer whatever questions you have truthfully. You need to be capable of processing the truth, then see if you can start rebuilding the trust back and move forward.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

The long term effect of adultery, the gift that just keeps on giving. 

There could be a third option to the two you posted. He is scared to death if he passes judgement, you might say your right - I want a divorce your ass!!!!

Yep, the gift that gives keeps giving to both of you. I really liked how broken lady's husband handled a similar situation. It showed empathy, rejection but somewhat non-judgmental. I can see why she still wants to be with him. 

Aine, how would her husbands response make you feel if your's answered the same way? 
I have more thoughts if you find her post reassuring.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

John, of course BL's H's response would be a great start but I'd probably have a heart attack with the shock first!

No kidding aside, such a response would not ring true at this point in time, how could he say those things if he still had not been open and honest? I still don't have the shot gun evidence I need, it is all entirely circumstantial, things said after that, etc that I have stored in my memory, connections I have made, etc. It is hard to explain, but I know my gut cannot be so wrong. 


We are getting on well and I know one of his worries would be me knowing because I have told him before if there was any infidelity again i would leave, no questions asked, so I guess he doesn't have a choice and won't take that risk but this is no way to live. 

When something triggers it, it eats me alive and I just play happy families and happy marriage, it is easier now the children are not here, so I don't have to pretend if I don't want to, but i don't want to fight either. I just wish I could get my studies finished work and leave. Beginning to think, perhaps he really does not deserve me, I am too straight of a person and hate dishonesty and lies. So I do not see a solution, just have to keep plodding on with what I need to do to get myself financially stable and then take the plunge, I have no illusions it will tear my family apart but must i suffer for what someone else has done?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

I think you have answered your own question. You do not trust him. You seem to be looking for reassurance that you can trust him and are just being paranoid. That is probably what he would tell you. But you really don't believe that.
Trust your gut. You don't trust him, because he is showing that he does not think adultery is a big deal and it shouldn't be a deal breaker. You disagree with that. The question then isn't about whether or not you can trust him. It's more about whether or not you are willing to live with someone that doesn't place a high value on marital fidelity. How could you trust someone like that? You sure don't feel that he has your best interests at heart and he isn't showing you that he does.


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I have a fear of going through the same thing in the future. My H cheated before marriage. We broke up for several months, I was seeing OM and he wanted me back. I ended up seeing them both, he was aware and I broke up with the OM. I went back to the OM a handful of times but then called it off for good.

I ended up pregnant, after we had our daughter things were pretty good. I wanted to be a family and we got married. He still questioned my faithfulness due to the OM. We had a conversation several months ago, of things we both withheld from each other. My gut feelings of things he denied were in fact true. I felt relieved that I wasn't in denial and deep down knew. I was angry that he questioned me and made me feel bad for my actions, yet had many times to be honest as well. The only reason he came clean was due to what I shared. I told him the same thing, if this ever happens in our marriage that I will be gone. I too, was more upset with the dishonesty and lies it wasn't just about the act itself.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Thank you for all your replies, yesterday was just one of those days. I worked at home on my studies and went off to see Hunger Games - (yah I know it's more for teenage girls but enjoyable) before he got home at 9pm, his usual time from work. It was the late show and I was getting calls and messages from H which I replied to . He wanted to go for coffee afterwards and I told him it would be too late. 
I got home well after midnight and got a diatribe about not inviting him, never bothering to answer my phone (duh I am in a movie!), nowadays I never call him, etc. I defended myself calmly saying I spend a lot of time alone at home (as I work and study mostly at home) and needed to get out and do things for myself as I couldn't be depending on him (which I am doing nowadays, arrange night out with friends, go movies, go dinner, etc some of which are also together with H). 

I moved on so as not to fight, sat up late with him watching some stupid movie and exhausted went to bed. He wanted sex at 2am, I obliged, again before falling asleep he brought up the issue that i never call him anymore!!! I told him, he never calls me unless he wants something done or needs to ask something! (

Now I wouldn't mind but this is coming from a man who used to come home at all hours from drinking, didn't come home at all, wouldn't call me or answer his phone and I put up with that s*** for years! , he still has the tendency but not as bad and is much better at letting me know.

Today I am much calmer and realise that I don't want to but could live without him if I had too, I will never again let myself be lured into a position of dependence on him emotionally or otherwise.

It is sad as I have so much to give but he blew it, so now I am going to live for me and learn some of that selfishness from him. I just hope though that i can still stay true to my own values in the process, a bit of a balancing act really. 

Is it possible to look at someone and love them and hate them at the same time?


thanks for listening to my little rant for now


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

It sounds like he's running scared because he knows you know. It's the elephant in the room that will stop you from having a fulfilling marriage. No, you don't trust him - how could you?

If he came clean, would you work on reconciliation?


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## New_Beginnings (Nov 16, 2015)

I think for years I had a love hate relationship with H. This mainly before I got the truth from him on the cheating and or whereabouts. I loved him for knowing who he could be and for great memories we both shared. I loved him as my friend, the man I could talk to and joke with. I was angry because I knew he was lying and this was not the man I fell in love with. I was hurt because the man I felt protected by was the same one who gave a piece of him elsewhere. I was hurt for playing a fool to mutual friends who also knew about this mutual woman. I can't explain every single feeling. I had moments I cried, moments I yelled and moments I needed to be reassured. 

I had many emotions and sure felt like the roller coaster of hell at times. Why do I think I can fix him? I can't, I knew deep down I couldn't. Why am I staying with someone that gets me in this sad deep place? I guess I really just wanted and hoped I could have the man I fell in love with back.

I wanted my best friend, even though he let me down. At times I question how can I deal with this pain, if it reoccurred one day? I have told him many times, my heart would be so broken. I wouldn't be capable to try repairing yet again. It took close to 5yrs to feel that I was trusting of him again. The hardest part about trusting him was rehashing the truth and replaying it in my mind. I forgave him although I can't forget.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

alte Dame said:


> It sounds like he's running scared because he knows you know. It's the elephant in the room that will stop you from having a fulfilling marriage. No, you don't trust him - how could you?
> 
> If he came clean, would you work on reconciliation?


If he came clean I probably would.

As the kids are not at home and as I get older I am now in the 'less likely to take any prisoner" mode. I have put up with so much bs in my lifetime, I feel enough it enough, is this normal? I guess it's the dropping oestrogen levels. I think he knows this.

I think he also knows if he came clean, I would have him by the 'short and curlies' and that would not be a favourable position for a man with a huge ego. I might also try and still walk away, I am capable of it as I have done it before


The man i dated before my H and was supposed to marry, he had asked me to, cheated on me ( I walked into a night club where i was supposed to meet him with friends, went to look for him and caught him kissing someone else who it turned out was working in the local hotel for the summer, he had slept with her too - we were all very young around 20 years old or so). 
We tried to work it out, but i never really trusted him. When it seemed all was going well, I finished with him, even though I sound callous, I knew in the back of my mind there was no way I could have gone through with marriage so there was no point in delaying the inevitable.

I know I have matured a lot since then, I have a family/kids to consider, we are all very close, but I know what I am capable of when the chips are down.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

New_Beginnings said:


> I think for years I had a love hate relationship with H. This mainly before I got the truth from him on the cheating and or whereabouts. I loved him for knowing who he could be and for great memories we both shared. I loved him as my friend, the man I could talk to and joke with. I was angry because I knew he was lying and this was not the man I fell in love with. I was hurt because the man I felt protected by was the same one who gave a piece of him elsewhere. I was hurt for playing a fool to mutual friends who also knew about this mutual woman. I can't explain every single feeling. I had moments I cried, moments I yelled and moments I needed to be reassured.
> 
> I had many emotions and sure felt like the roller coaster of hell at times. Why do I think I can fix him? I can't, I knew deep down I couldn't. Why am I staying with someone that gets me in this sad deep place? I guess I really just wanted and hoped I could have the man I fell in love with back.
> 
> I wanted my best friend, even though he let me down. At times I question how can I deal with this pain, if it reoccurred one day? I have told him many times, my heart would be so broken. I wouldn't be capable to try repairing yet again. It took close to 5yrs to feel that I was trusting of him again. The hardest part about trusting him was rehashing the truth and replaying it in my mind. I forgave him although I can't forget.


I really feel your pain, it will always be there as a distant yet present one. 
I stay because as Affaircare pointed out to me some time ago, the benefits outweigh the cost (right now), though that might change. Not wanting to sound mercenary but that is the reality, I have a nice home, money, able to study, work, my pets, a content family, a history both up and down, fun times, good friends I can count on, etc.

If I leave I go back to my home country which I left when i was 25 years old, no or little history, a family but not near my own family, no friends, no property, look for another job, etc. One cannot measure the emotional cost but measured against the negatives of leaving, it is better for me to stay right now. 

Will my H change fully, will he become honest and forthright. I don't know, though he is a much better version of himself that what he was 5 years ago, I know that much. Can I live with this version of him? At the moment yes, (except for the days when i fall down, like yesterday). 

At least I have a much better understanding of what I am dealing with, compared to the naive me of (say) 10 years ago. I learn more every day (thanks to TAM too). I have a better understanding of me too. 

Using the AA motto, I just need the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can; and the wisdom to know the difference.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

We never really know exactly how we would respond if we were in someone else's shoes, but I think I would do what I could to get him to tell the truth. I would tell him that I would work on the marriage, but only from a starting point of honesty, that I don't believe he hasn't cheated, that that has been my baseline assumption for a long time, and that I don't want to keep the marriage going anymore with this hanging over my head and heart.

Given what you've said about his ego, etc., he may never even try to tell you the truth (good or bad), at which point you need to decide that you either can't live with the lie or will, sadly, rugsweep.

If it were me, though, the rugsweeping would corrode my love and respect for him & I would wind up divorced anyway, I think.


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## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

In many ways your journey sounds likes river rat's. Have you read his threads. Hard to put into words why, but I found his story inspiring. As he progress I felt something inside of me begin to renew, something I had not even noticed had gone very dormant.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Aine, where can you see yourself in 5 or 10 years? 

Would what you see be different if he came clean?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

JohnA said:


> In many ways your journey sounds likes river rat's. Have you read his threads. Hard to put into words why, but I found his story inspiring. As he progress I felt something inside of me begin to renew, something I had not even noticed had gone very dormant.


I skim read the thread, wow! that is all I can say. I do hope he posts again soon. He waited so long though but I believe the timing was right for him and he saw her true colours in the end. I am of the belief that no person is beyond redemption but I think some people choose not to be redeemed?

They cannot admit to themselves that perhaps they have an evil streak or more nicely put, a flaw.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Satya said:


> Aine, where can you see yourself in 5 or 10 years?
> 
> Would what you see be different if he came clean?


In 5-10 years with an established career, being financially self sufficient, maybe in another country (with or without H) but most definitely more at peace, grounded and happy with myself. I will no longer be spending my time pleasing others.
(I am currently pursuing higher level studies to that end  I have no illusions that it will be difficult as a 40 something woman starting over but I won't know till I try I guess.

If he came clean, I would want to know was it because he wanted to dump his guilt on me (because things are going good) or was it a genuine concern for the betterment of our relationship. 

He is by nature a selfish man, so I would need to be sure. If it was clear it was the former then I would probably try to see if we could get past it but in all likelihood I would probably leave.

If it was the latter, I would put in 100% effort but with the usual caveats about phone, location, working late, etc (though I also think that is no way to live, checking up on spouses). In the longer term I may decide it is not worth it and leave also. Who knows?

I just know I would not be fully committed to the M and I would never trust him again. In fact I am in that place now.

It would also depend very much on the extent of the infidelity, ons, LTA, more than one person, EA, PA, etc.


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## cgiles (Dec 10, 2014)

You should read "When I say No, I feel guilty" by Manuel J Smith. It's about how to communicate more efficiently.

And maybe you should start to think about a polygraph.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Likely his view on adultery is shaped by him not wanting to "feel" like a hypocrite; like any other WS should feel. Only difference being he hasn't been caught dead to rights.

Not so much dishonesty as guilt.

Just another small piece of circumstantial evidence for you to ponder.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Aine

I haven't read your story, but I have read your posts in this thread. What you are going through is hell, plain and simple. I did this for two and a half years, and each day another small part of died. It wasn't until I was dead on the inside and no longer had hope did I realize I can't do this. Something had to change, my marriage or my wife, but moving forward just wasn't possible. 

I became depressed and thought it would pass, it didn't, in fact it got worse to the point I attempted suicide. Hiding my thoughts, my pain, my actions of wanting to die became my focus. Reality was, the not knowing caused so much damage, my wife watched as I faded into a shell of what I was. Much like your husband is doing now, yet he knows this ultimately won't last, yet he isn't strong enough to admit the truth like my wife. 

Your decision has so much impact on not only your life, but all those in your family. I struggled with this choice, I became angry I had to make this choice, it wasn't the choice I thought I would ever make. It took about a week and I decided I had to make the choice for me, nobody else. I can't feel guilty no matter how much the family is disrupted. I'm no good to anyone if I can't be happy or in a position to keep waiting for what I already knew. There was no other part of left to die, except my actual being. 

Not knowing eats away at you slowly, and before you know it you have been consumed. This is where you realize that you have nothing left to give. Your rock bottom for your marriage, it either changes or you stand up and surrender. I couldn't surrender to a life not knowing and living with that pain. Pain that will never go away or lessens time passes by. You need to ask yourself, how long can I stand at this fork in the road? 

I chose to reconcile, after I lived my life with infidelity as a deal breaker. I lost most of myself, my values and my faith. My core shaken firmly, my life now a complete unknown. I faced the leap of faith, then took it thinking I can always change my direction. My wife is remorseful, my wife confessed, and I now know the truth. That is what saved me, the truth. 

My d-day was January 20, 2014, I still remember like yesterday, however the pain is not so sharp. That doesn't mean the pain has gone away, maybe it's manageable now. So there is hope, but that would be after you have gotten the truth. I would recommend a polygraph, even with their results, as it would be better then nothing. 

I wish you well, I wish I could help you more, but this is a decision only you can make.

Best of luck to you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Drifting On,

Thanks for sharing this.

I have had my dark period when I first saw the red flags, when he treated me like I was not worthy of his time, when we argued there was no compassion and in that instance I knew who he truly was. We had just moved across the world, I had to try and keep it together for the kids. That was a shock, because in spite of the drinking in the past I had always known deep down he loved me. I sunk into a depression for a year, doctor prescribed Xanax which I refused to take. Many times I thought of driving my car at full speed into a wall but I knew I could never do that to my kids, I cried myself to sleep many nights, I cut myself off from friends but I still have those few who listened to me and helped me regain myself. I only started counseling later. 

We went on an MC course and I knew then I could not renew my vows at the end of it and I told my husband I wasn’t going to attend the function. It was then he realized the mess he made, but still no confession, no real cleansing of the soul, just rug sweeping. He went got counseling and has become better in many ways but for me I don’t know if it is enough. He even pointed out he was trying and I told him once “maybe it is too little too late.” I need the full truth, his attitude is 'why must my past keep haunting me, why must you dig up things, why must you live in the past, etc' So I am really still in the same place as before but stronger as I am working on me.

Instead I pulled myself up and got a full time job, got out of the house, did as best I could for the kids while he worked all hours, was hardly at home, drank and did whatever else. He blamed me that I was not there for him when he was struggling in his new position at work, I had zoned out (sounds to me like he has already blamed me for his own actions because he also did that the last time when he committed adultery when my son was born and I accepted it stupidly, I had a toddler and had just given birth I couldn’t handle the emotional devastation and I had no family as we were in a foreign country then too). 

But in the past few years I have grown stronger. I went through a period of intense anger (for which my H said I was the problem and should get counseling! ). Boy have I struggled, I have orchestrated it that my kids have gone, even though my son is still young to be on his own (back to my side of the world) so that if or when there is fall out they will be so removed from it that the damage will be less. My kids are both very happy where there are and doing really well. I can rest assured that it is better than them being here to witness anything that goes down. So I know what you mean about the decisions and the impact on the family. Now I have more room to think, to focus on me. 

I cannot change him, I can only change myself and get my ducks in a row, which is what I am doing. I cannot see things changing for us, I have not decided when I go but I swing back and forth between trying to see the good in him and accepting his flaws and planning to walk away because I cannot accept that the man I spent the majority of my adult life with can betray me, hurt me and ultimately not give a d*** but would rather protect himself . I strongly believe in the ‘do unto others’ and I do believe that he will get his come uppance. Part of me wants revenge, though I know that is wrong, so I will just proceed day by day but I know that one day I shall be free of these chains, how I am not sure yet.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

I like that you're prepared, Aine. It's going to help you immensely, having a great deal of options and getting your life in a state to remain independent. I think we all go through dark days, but it's how we emerge that makes the difference in our futures. 

Whatever happens, I have a strong feeling that you will be just fine


Eta: I had an anger phase, which came out pretty late because I suppressed it on purpose. This was not a healthy thing to do. I needed to process it. Not sure if you are well past that phase yet, but when you're angry, find a way to let it out safely. I actually bought a punching bag and pulled out lots of old stuffed toys so I could throw them. Kid you not. I also yelled out loud all the anger in words, and released a full torpedo spread on my imaginary ex.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Satya said:


> I like that you're prepared, Aine. It's going to help you immensely, having a great deal of options and getting your life in a state to remain independent. I think we all go through dark days, but it's how we emerge that makes the difference in our futures.
> 
> Whatever happens, I have a strong feeling that you will be just fine
> 
> ...


No anger anymore, just sadness and resignation that the man I chose to marry has a different value system to me and will always put himself first. I have always put him first because that is what marriage means to me, but not anymore. :|


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Some of you mentioned a poly graph, however the country I live in does not have that type of service.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

aine, you don't need a polygraph. You need to separate. You need to let him see you MOVE ON. Only then will he realize he would need to respect you in order to get to keep you.

And what he then does will tell you everything you need to know.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

turnera said:


> aine, you don't need a polygraph. You need to separate. You need to let him see you MOVE ON. Only then will he realize he would need to respect you in order to get to keep you.
> 
> And what he then does will tell you everything you need to know.


What you really need to do is what you think is right for you. If you think that doing the polygraph will resolve this and you can move on, then go for it.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

You can still love someone, move on and know they are not right for you. Some people can reconcile others cannot and neither answer is right or wrong. Do what is right for you.


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