# Lies and secrets



## Heartsick1972 (Feb 7, 2014)

I just found out on January 12, 2014 that my husband has been having a year-long affair with a girl he met on Internet poker. I found out, because he passed out drunk holding a prepaid cell phone. Were there signs? Absolutely. He always denied it. When I confronted him with the phone, he admitted she had flown from California to our state to meet him in December. I immediately kicked him out, but he begged to come home 3 days later. I stupidly gave in, because I love him so much and don't want to lose my marriage of 8 years. He was home about a week when I realized I just couldn't bear to be in the same house with him. So I signed a lease for an apartment and moved out with my 14 year old from a previous marriage. Once again, his begging and pleading started and I'm back with him. I know, I sound crazy. I assure you I wasn't crazy before this happened. He swore to never contact her again. Last night, I had my same gut feelings from before, so I looked at his phone while he was in the shower. He has been continuing to email her through his browser and has a secret yahoo account. I didn't have the heart to read the emails so I just dropped the phone. I confronted him as soon as he came out of the shower, and of course, he denied anything other than showing concern that she was ok. Now I'm stuck. I don't know what to do. He swears he loves only me and never wants to be with her. I'm so depressed and anxious all of the time, so I can't seem to make smart decisions. Someone please give me some advice on where to go from here. I'm having a really hard time.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

ummm....it's Feb 7th here in OZ. This is a typo right or do I gotta drag out the DeLorean?


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## Heartsick1972 (Feb 7, 2014)

See, told you I can't think clearly I edited the date.


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

NC Letter, he writes it you read it, you send it.

Exposure to all

Post her on Cheaterville

Monitor finances, has he and is he spending money on her that belongs to the family.

Get VARs and place in secret places that he cannot find and monitor if he is contacting her.

Get all passwords he is now completely open

Physical probably get tested for STDs him and you.

If you want to "R" he has to agree to all this.

Otherwise do the 180, and prepare to D


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

Heartsick1972 said:


> Now I'm stuck.


You're no more stuck now than you were when you were ready to leave before.

I assume you had an understanding with him that he would end all contact. If you did, now he's blown a 3rd chance.

If it were me, I wouldn't give him another one.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Why did you go back so soon?

I don't understand why you are even still in the same house?

I can give a bunch of advice but it is useless unless you take it in and use it!

If you still have the lease then go back to the apartment, but first you should look at the finances and splits on what you got to pay as a couple, winding up credit cards, savings etc.

This can take time, but if you are smart and listen to us then you are best to start getting things straightened out and cutting things clean, keep the apartment on the back burner and once everything is cut cleanly then simply move out.

*I am not saying ditch him!!!*

Understand this much, if there is any chance of a future for you with this man then he will use that time alone for reflection and make changes in his life that are necessary for you both to (R) reconcile and work out a way forward, now if he does nothing to try to bring about changes and simply whines about how much he loves you and how he misses waking up next to you and basically whining and pleading for you to go back without giving you space and time to heal or even making sure he is changing and leaving that bull crap behind then you have nothing to go back for.

Look at it like this;

You; We need some separation, I am going to move out for a while until I can trust you and see that you understand what you have done.

Him; But I don't want you to go, everything will be ok, you'll see, I'll change, I will, and we will live happily ever after.

You; Sorry but I need space for myself, I need to see from the outside that you are changing and that you do understand.

Him; Perhaps it is for the best.

Now, you are out of the picture, what will he do? He now has to choose what path he takes?

You are now able to focus on yourself, he is not there and you are able to feel free, this is not a point of dwelling where you want back what you had, at this point you need to be looking at getting out of the house with the kids, going to the gym or swimming, making peace with yourself, also you need a time for reflection on what you may feel went wrong!

If he really wants it to work out and to R, then you have to have set and enforceable boundaries, it probably seems rather hard to enforce boundaries when you are not there to see if they have been broken or not? Wrong, before you leave be sure to put key logging software on his computer and his smart phone, most smart phones apparrently have an ability to be tracked such as the iphone and ipads do, you can find him at any point in time as long as he has his phone, by key logging you can varify from a distance if he is back to poker face or any new liasons that are not with you.

All of which must be secret from him!!!!

If he proves worthy of another try after 3 months then test the water with dating, go slow like it should be, but 3 months!!! No sooner as you both need to get your heads straight, you rush back and he faces no consequences and then feels like he can do it again, you stay focused on 3 months and he waits and keeps it in his pants and then you know for sure whether or not he is worth another shot after MC and IC for you both.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

1. Get tested for STD's.
2. Ask him for all accounts and passwords.
3. All lies stop now or else.


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

Heartsick1972 said:


> I just found out on January 12, 2014 that my husband has been having a *year-long *affair with a girl he met on Internet poker.
> - He admitted she had flown from California to our state *to meet him *in December.
> - I immediately kicked him out, but *he begged *to come home 3 days later.
> - Then a week later I moved out with my 14 year old from a previous marriage.
> ...


He lies, cheats, begs, comes back, lies, cheats, begs, comes back. You are on the roundabout to hell. I fear you might be on TAM a long time. I hope not. 

I'm getting the sense of a serial cheater here - the 'Can't help himself' type. I hope not. He couldn't even stop contact for a few days? His concern for OW makes my heart bleed. What about his concern for YOU? None! An EA/PA before? Maybe. You need to find out. 

He seems to be all talk but VERY good at begging, and lying - the A was going on for 12 months. You suspected nothing? How was he behaving towards you? Was the sex as per normal etc?

You also need try to find out if he got to know anyone else on his internet games. OW must have been smitten to come and see him at Christmas - how cute! Now we're in PA territory. Is a PA a deal breaker? Think about that. You need to get tested. 

It's unlikely she was the only woman he met on the game - sorry. 

OW may be married & lives far away. Maybe she won't move or leave her H. You don't want to be plan B, you have been up until now. 

You need more information because there may be a deal breaker in there. Snoop, VAR the works and find out. Check her out on FB etc. 

Then MOVE OUT again. Tell him you need space before you try R and tell him on no account must he contact her or any other woman. I totally agree with WranglerMan. Move out having done the keylogging and anything else to snoop on him. Try to visit his (sorry YOUR) house once a week to replace VARs etc. Time to test him now before you even think of R. BTW why didn't he move out and not you - he caused all this. 

Expose her to her H if she has one. 

If you R with him you will have to snoop, VAR, the whole works for a LONG time, a year at the very least given what he did after D-day. Verifiable truth. I wouldn't trust him an inch. 

The MINIMUM requirement for R is NC - he couldn't do it for a few days despite all his begging. 

If you give him another chance, *make sure it's his last *and make sure he knows that. Prepare yourself financially and legally (get D papers) just in case. You may not have to use them but you do have to protect you and your child.

I'm sorry for your pain.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

********** said:


> I fear you might be on TAM a long time. I hope not.


I have thought this about a few posters here and suddenly they drop off the face of the planet, maybe the advice we give isn't what they are hoping for :scratchhead:


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

wranglerman said:


> I have thought this about a few posters here and suddenly they drop off the face of the planet, maybe the advice we give isn't what they are hoping for :scratchhead:


Yes W. I have thought about it too. I would say most of them just give up and put up with it because they know they won't be able to do as posters suggest and are afraid of leaving etc. 

It IS hard to take the advice on here - I found it very hard but I'm so glad I did. 

Also I think a lot of them are tr*lls. They get bored or can't come up with anything new or don't get enough of a reaction. 

Sorry to threadjack OP!


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## Fenix (Jul 2, 2013)

Heartsick, you have a 14 year old. If they were in the same situation, what would you tell them? How would you like to see them behave? Model that for him/her.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

rrrbbbttt said:


> NC Letter, he writes it you read it, you send it.
> 
> Exposure to all


Somebody hit the breaks!!!

Why on earth is everyone on this forum so hot about No Contact letters?

They are worthless!


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> Somebody hit the breaks!!!
> 
> Why on earth is everyone on this forum so hot about No Contact letters?
> 
> They are worthless!


Two things. First, the process of drafting it and sending it reinforces to the wayward that no contact means no contact. It's not 100% effective in this role but every little bit helps. Second, it's a formal notification to the interloper not to make contact. Further contact after that is legally actionable. You can't do anything legally about someone contacting your wayward if they haven't been notified that contact is a no-no.

What's you objection to them? Do you see some way they're harmful?


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Sorry you are going thru this rotten experience.

Will he go to MC?

Have you told his family and your family? I know it is hard to think clearly with all this weight on you.

Go to IC also. You need help to get thru this tough horrible experience. Your 14 year old needs his Mom. He may think he does not, but he does. (many teenagers think they know everything) 

He has to work on NC, remorse and being transparent. Otherwise, it is too hard and will not work.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

They are harmful in that they come across as passive and timid.

They almost scream "I am a play softball only, you get tough and I will go fetal in an eye-blink."

They just aren't particularly "alpha" for lack of a better expression. I don't care for the "alpha" philosophy myself, but it does say what I am trying to say quite succinctly.

If I were an OM and got a no contact letter I would just think "oh right.. I hear you, you got busted... time for me to change my phone number so he can't recognize it... I will call you soon baby"

I would expect an OW to think the same way.

What serious legal action can you take if an affair partner calls or emails your spouse?

Just seems silly and timid to me. As an OM _I would never take a betrayed spouse who resorted to sending a NC letter seriously_.

And yes, I would assume it was the BS behind the letter, not the wayward.

Sorry, NC letters just seem to invite further interference rather than discourage it.

Imagine someone shoves you in public. Are you going to write them a letter to stop doing that?

OM and OW are not unlike bullies. They find a vulnerable marriage and they bully it into a fetal position. They bully the marriage, take the lunch money, and get a thrill out of it.

Betrayed spouses writing letters just makes them look like a target for more bullying. "Don't worry affair partner, I am just going to write you a letter asking you to leave my spouse alone.. I won't harm you."

That's all an OM or OW is gonna get from a NC letter.

Bleh.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

You know, sometimes you really reach when you try to defend an indefensible opinion. However, I'll go ahead and address your objections.



Allen_A said:


> They are harmful in that they come across as passive and timid.


Are you suggesting that sending a no contact letter is more passive and timid than doing nothing? I'm not even going to argue that point, it's too ridiculous.



Allen_A said:


> What serious legal action can you take if an affair partner calls or emails your spouse?


It depends on what you call serious. Once he's been sent a NCL, further contact can be considered harassment. The next step would be a complaint to the police, followed by the BS requiring the WS to get a restraining order against the AP.



Allen_A said:


> Sorry, NC letters just seem to invite further interference rather than discourage it.


It's a strange world you live in, where a literal demand to stop an action is considered an invitation to continue that action. I'm glad it's not like that in the real world.



Allen_A said:


> Imagine someone shoves you in public. Are you going to write them a letter to stop doing that?


Do you understand the difference between battery and harassment? It doesn't seem you do. However, I'll answer the question. No, if someone shoves me in public I'm going to bounce them off the ground. Then I'm going to press charges. I suspect you'd think I'm some kind of wimp because I use that tricky judo stuff in a situation like that rather than what you apparently think would be the right way to handle that situation, namely doing nothing.

I still can't get over you thinking that doing nothing is less passive than sending a no contact letter.


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## Heartsick1972 (Feb 7, 2014)

rrrbbbttt said:


> NC Letter, he writes it you read it, you send it.
> 
> Exposure to all
> 
> ...


The day I found the prepaid, everyone in both families were told. I was not about to suffer in silence.

I'm not quite sure how cheaterville works. I had never heard of it until now.

As far as finances, he puts his check in the bank. He has a debit card that I monitor. I never knew he had a burner phone. 

I'm pretty sure I am going to get the VARs, but he works in a very noisy van. Will the loud noises be recorded? 

He deleted the yahoo account and has shown me every day that it is still deleted.

Appointment has been made for STDs.

He agrees to everything but seems so angry that I found out everything so far by investigating. He has even went so far as to tell me that I'm no better than him because of the lengths I went to gain information. 

I work 12 hour shifts as an RN at a very stressful job, so most of my detective work will have to be conducted when I am off. If I find something bad, I will be emotionally unable to work. This has rocked my entire world. Every second I am awake, this is on my mind. I'm literally in a state of shock, even almost one month later.


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## Heartsick1972 (Feb 7, 2014)

wranglerman said:


> I have thought this about a few posters here and suddenly they drop off the face of the planet, maybe the advice we give isn't what they are hoping for :scratchhead:


I came here for advice and will take all I can use. I just need to stop feeling so sad and get angry. I'm so depressed.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

Nucking Futs said:


> I still can't get over you thinking that doing nothing is less passive than sending a no contact letter.


And I can't get over you assuming my suggestion is to do nothing. lol

No Contact Letters are worthless.


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm on the fence about No Contact letters-- I think the only value is if they are written by the WS without ANY pressure from the BS..... it's their own idea and their own desire to end it that makes it feel more solid. 

As Allen said, any OP will just think that the BS put them up to it and will adopt the lay low attitude until it can be resumed unless the language is one they recognize comes from the WS. 

I think the best response is no response right? The WS slams the door shut on the affair and never responds to fishing attempts. Any little response even a rough one gives them false hope that the affair can start up again. 

I think NC letters also give false hope to the BS that everything is sealed UNLESS the letter was the idea of the WS. 


I wonder how many BS were affected by false R after NC were sent? 

Heartsick--- the fact that he gets angry at your detective work is a bad sign. He should be mortified that he hurt you and that he was caught. 

All the "signs" that he is showing you that he is accountable are really easy to work around. He can set up a million yahoo accounts, or install hide my text aps on his smart phone....for every solution there is another sneaky way to hide things from 
you. 


Let's talk about your detective work. It does serve a purpose in the beginning when your gut is gnawing at you and you can't find the evidence but once you have busted him it's not healthy to keep spying on him. Do you really want to be policing the boundaries of your marriage????? That is HIS job. The burden is on him to make sure he wants to be married and that he honors what you both have agreed is the behavior of your union. 

You will quickly grow exhausted of trying to find the smoking gun and your stress will escalate. Why not just take a break from him like you first did and really see if you can miss the guy? 

Do you really want to live with someone who seems to have these commitment problems?


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## daggeredheart (Feb 21, 2012)

One more thing....anyone else just horrified at the depths that WS will go to in their affairs?? 

Burner phones

Secret Accounts/apartments/emails/text aps???? 

I mean you really have to be plotting and scheming to think of these things and it just raises the trauma to a whole new level when discovered. It's like your married to a spy agent or something??? The whole, "I didn't plan on this to happen" sure seems weak when you find all the secret equipment they use to deceive.


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## wranglerman (May 12, 2013)

Heartsick1972 said:


> He agrees to everything but seems so angry that I found out everything so far by investigating. He has even went so far as to tell me that I'm no better than him because of the lengths I went to gain information.


He is angry that he got caught, he is angry that you are able to actually piece together his actions, he is enraged that you were not only as smart as him but actually smarter from the point of being able to investigate and find cold herd facts.

If I were you, I would be quite pleased at the accomplishment, but also pizzed off as his anger is not healthy from the point of view that in his eyes he was right in what he was doing.

If he remains angry and or does not actually show remorse then it really is over, pack, move get on with life ASAP.


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## cool12 (Nov 17, 2013)

wow, you've been through a lot. he is very lucky you have let him get away with so much. 
i'd be keeping a really good eye on him and let him know if he cheats again, it will be the last time. he's already disrespected you so much.


does he have a gambling addiction?


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

daggeredheart said:


> I think the best response is no response right? The WS slams the door shut on the affair and never responds to fishing attempts. Any little response even a rough one gives them false hope that the affair can start up again.


If I was an affair partner I wouldn't think twice about a NC letter.

Couples in an affair break up like high school teenagers. They fight, they break up, three days later they are on top of one another again.

The NC will just look like another one of a string of fights affair couples have.

And affair couples DO have fights and break up. It's part of their ridiculous drama.

Yes, I could understand a NC letter maybe if that was written by the wayward with zero pressure. Maybe.

But I am still doubtful it will do any good.

As far as fishing attempts, you cut those off at the knees : 

a. get a new phone number
b. get a new phone
c. get a new email address
d. close all other internet accounts, especially facebook

Waywards need to go OFF the GRID.

They re-enter the grid again, gradually, as a member of a marriage only.

If your spouse isn't willing to work with that plan in mind, forget the No Contact Letter.

If your spouse won't get a new phone, new number, and close their internet accounts, don't bother with the NC letter.

They aren't cooperating with you.

That's the ONLY use of a NC letter, if you ask them to write one, and they refuse, you have your answer as to their disposition.


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## mahike (Aug 16, 2011)

Is anger is that he got caught and is trying to blame shift. You did expose but did you expose her? You are likely to find out more as you keep digging they only will admit to what you can prove. 

It does not sound like your husband is showing any remorse towards you at all. I would throw is butt on the street and then file for D. He needs to know you are willing to kick him to the curb. You can stop the D but not until he shows remorse and is trying to repair the trust and a great deal of IC and MC.

Sorry you are going through this little slice of hell.


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## brokeneric (Jan 27, 2014)

Show him some tough love. Someone acts like a teen deserves to be treated like a teen. Do 180 file for D. If he doesn't reform, he doesn't deserve you. But first you would to understand you deserve better than the current treatment you are getting.


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## Heartsick1972 (Feb 7, 2014)

Ok, divorce papers are filed and the VAR is ready to be put in place. Now we wait. Thanks to everyone for all of the great advice. He's not talking to me while he's driving from call to call, so I have a deep suspicion he's still talking to her.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Don't ever, I mean, EVER, reveal your sources of information. 

Get a keylogger on the computer too if he uses that.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nucking Futs View Post 

I still can't get over you thinking that doing nothing is less passive than sending a no contact letter. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allen A
And I can't get over you assuming my suggestion is to do nothing. lol

No Contact Letters are worthless


OK Fellas lets move on please

55


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Nucking Futs View Post
> 
> I still can't get over you thinking that doing nothing is less passive than sending a no contact letter.
> ...


You're the only one to post about it in the last 36 hours.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Allen_A said:


> No Contact Letters are worthless.


Yes, just like logical fallacies, but people still use them both effectively in their eyes.


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