# 9 years ago



## Avgman

Does anyone else have problems mainly around the time you found out about the affair? I found out 9 years ago to the date about my wife having a PA with what I thought was my best friend. I was the best man in his wedding and all that. They texted each other 1000' of times a month, had the affair, etc. I still remember all the dates that she laid out for me, even though I know it was more hook ups than she indicated....I can't stop looking through old Facebook post, imagining what she was thinking when she wrote them...one that gets me is we had a b day party for my brother, her and the bf went riding around in the golf cart, she swears nothing happened but her Facebook posts says " last night was so much fun, a bon fire never felt soooo good before" I just have to imagine something happened that night...I know, I know, let it go and stop wondering, it's been 9 years...just needed to write this out...don't know what kind of response I'm looking for, if one at all... maybe just writing it out helps me get through it...thanks....


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## Avgman

And as odd
as it sounds the majority of the year I'm okay, it's just late August till this time of the year I have my issues...of course, this is the timeline presented to me as the start date to my discovery.


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## 3Xnocharm

I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell you to let it go and stop wondering. The fact that this still happens for you every year for nine years shows that you really arent over it, and I dont blame you. Personally I wouldnt still be there, but there must be a hell of a lot of something outstanding to keep you in this. I am sorry you still get hurt.


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## Avgman

I guess initially it was I didn't want to lose to another man, maybe... stupid I know. Then it was our son, which I'm so thankful I've been able to watch him grow up, he's 16 now. And I would say I do care for her, I'm good with everything except August to October 2010...


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## Numb26

Sorry you are going thru this. Thinking about what happened with your wife's A, especially around its anniversary, is normal. But I would consider the fact that after 9 years, if the pain is still fresh, you might not have truly gotten past it. You did nothing so why should you punish yourself? Speaking as someone who is going thru what you are, you have to ask yourself if this is something that you can live with moving forward. I couldn't


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## Avgman

I often wonder if it's because I know deep down there is more to it...as hard as it was to hear the details I did manage to get from her I know there are more than likely more and for whatever reason 9 years later that still bothers me... would it make a difference, I don't know for sure, will she ever tell me now, no. When I did get the info from her it was they met 5 times, had sex 2 times on one of the meetings that ended in oral...the oral part bothers me...she said the second time he pulled her to the bedroom and the sex was going on she started to feel bad for what she was doing...she stopped him but felt bad for him and decided to finish him off that way....I was like gee thanks for caring... anyway, I asked her about the oral part and she then said it happened twice then when I said I thought it was once she said yeah it was just once...so you already know it's not all out there. My mind is always racing, not just this but this time of the year it consumes me...as bad as I want to ask her to explain the bon fire comment I know I will get nothing happened... maybe I'm just a nut, I do appreciate the comments.


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## sokillme

Sorry to be harsh but when I read posts like this I have to shake my head. You think your wife had an affair with your best friend and the best man in your wedding? My questions is why you would think making a life with a person who could do that to you isn't going to suck? Do you think that a situation like that ever gets better? Do you think if you stay with that person who betrayed you so terribly it would ever go away? Why would you think that? What in life has told you that that is the basis for a good happy life or marriage?

I mean if you choose a career where you are only going to make minimum wage do you think somehow you will on day be independently wealthy? 

Again this is harsh but it's the most truth you are ever going to get on sites like this. This is who you picked to spend your life with either accept it or move on.


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## Numb26

Avgman said:


> I often wonder if it's because I know deep down there is more to it...as hard as it was to hear the details I did manage to get from her I know there are more than likely more and for whatever reason 9 years later that still bothers me... would it make a difference, I don't know for sure, will she ever tell me now, no. When I did get the info from her it was they met 5 times, had sex 2 times on one of the meetings that ended in oral...the oral part bothers me...she said the second time he pulled her to the bedroom and the sex was going on she started to feel bad for what she was doing...she stopped him but felt bad for him and decided to finish him off that way....I was like gee thanks for caring... anyway, I asked her about the oral part and she then said it happened twice then when I said I thought it was once she said yeah it was just once...so you already know it's not all out there. My mind is always racing, not just this but this time of the year it consumes me...as bad as I want to ask her to explain the bon fire comment I know I will get nothing happened... maybe I'm just a nut, I do appreciate the comments.


The first thing you are going to have to realize it that she is NEVER going to tell you the truth of what happen. Trickle truth is the cheater"s gameplan. And even what she does tell you you shouldnt believe. WW will always downplay or outright lie about what happened. 
Would asking about what happened at the bonfire help anything or just make the pain worse? Sometimes it is better not knowing.
I don't know your whole story so I have to ask....Did she show any remorse? Did she work hard for the R or was the A rugswept? How is the relationship now?


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## Avgman

No I completely understand the harsh reality. I let myself get into this situation and if I where to say the hell with it we need a divorce I'd feel selfish and really screwed up that I kept her in the relationship this long... I should have manned up 9 years ago...


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## sokillme

Avgman said:


> No I completely understand the harsh reality. I let myself get into this situation and if I where to say the hell with it we need a divorce I'd feel selfish and really screwed up that I kept her in the relationship this long... I should have manned up 9 years ago...


Yep. Being passive in any part of your life causes you to suffer just like how water always finds cracks. I suggest you start being truly honest with your wife about how you feel. Let her know you are very serious and see how she reacts. If you find out he cheated crush you ex best friend too.


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## Avgman

Numb26. Our relationship is pretty good, I often wonder if she's doing anything she shouldn't be but don't really have any reason to believe she is...she stays on the phone a lot but she is open and always willing to let me see what she's doing on there. She's awful with money management but would give me her last dollar if I needed it. Most of our friends are jealous of our relationship, we have great jobs, don't want for anything, have fun when we are together, etc. Sex life could be a tad better, stress from work, our son being older and in the house, etc. We are only off together 1 day a week on average...after finding out she was remorseful I'd say. Initially she had planned on moving out, said she had told him she was leaving me regardless. She said she didn't realize I loved her as much as I did, I often wonder if it's because he dropped her like a bag of rocks. His wife was pregnant, actually had their first child the weekend after I brought this to light. He had asked her to move away with him, she said he told her he didn't care about the unborn child but when I confronted them he was done with her...we actually worked together too so that added extra stress....


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## Avgman

Knowing the truth about all of it would maybe keep my mind from racing and wondering...but who knows....I really don't know, right before she confessed to the sex she said are you sure you wanna know the truth...of course I said yes, but I'm convinced it was downplayed...I know I was working one day and she got our son off with the grandparents for him to come over...he had to work that night, I was getting off early that day and she constantly kept asking what time k was leaving...never cared before, I obviously didn't have any clue...I just can't imagine as a man driving 35 mins to my house and sex wasn't the intention...of course she said they talked, made out and only laid in the bed for 30 mins or so before he left.


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## sokillme

Avgman said:


> I often wonder if it's because I know deep down there is more to it...as hard as it was to hear the details I did manage to get from her I know there are more than likely more and for whatever reason 9 years later that still bothers me... would it make a difference, I don't know for sure, will she ever tell me now, no. When I did get the info from her it was they met 5 times, had sex 2 times on one of the meetings that ended in oral...the oral part bothers me...she said the second time he pulled her to the bedroom and the sex was going on she started to feel bad for what she was doing...she stopped him but felt bad for him and decided to finish him off that way....I was like gee thanks for caring... anyway, I asked her about the oral part and she then said it happened twice then when I said I thought it was once she said yeah it was just once...so you already know it's not all out there. My mind is always racing, not just this but this time of the year it consumes me...as bad as I want to ask her to explain the bon fire comment I know I will get nothing happened... maybe I'm just a nut, I do appreciate the comments.


OK I just read this, so what more details do you need? 2 times or 100. Your wife is a total loss. Again it's not going to get better. Maybe if she moved heaven and earth, though I would never believe that but she doesn't even care enough to want to. 

This is you life dude as long as you stay married to her.


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## 3Xnocharm

If the WS isnt completely open, honest, and transparent about what happened during the A, then there really isnt ever a TRUE reconciliation. Because the BS isnt fully aware of what it is that they are (supposedly) forgiving. She has done you a disservice by not being 100% honest, because now this comes up for you every year.


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## Avgman

sokillme said:


> Avgman said:
> 
> 
> 
> No I completely understand the harsh reality. I let myself get into this situation and if I where to say the hell with it we need a divorce I'd feel selfish and really screwed up that I kept her in the relationship this long... I should have manned up 9 years ago...
> 
> 
> 
> Yep. Being passive in any part of your life causes you to suffer just like how water always finds cracks. I suggest you start being truly honest with your wife about how you feel. Let her know you are very serious and see how she reacts. If you find out he cheated crush you ex best friend too.
Click to expand...

I know they cheated...we are not for friends anymore and never talked beside work related stuff at work... thankfully our business closed and we went separate ways. I never see him or his wife out and about. I may sit her down and talk, last time we talked about it was this time last year. She said she would leave if I wanted her to and she didn't want me to be miserable with her... I told her it was just bad timing and I'd get over it like I always do.


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## Avgman

3Xnocharm said:


> If the WS isnt completely open, honest, and transparent about what happened during the A, then there really isnt ever a TRUE reconciliation. Because the BS isnt fully aware of what it is that they are (supposedly) forgiving. She has done you a disservice by not being 100% honest, because now this comes up for you every year.


I understand completely...


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## sokillme

Avgman said:


> I know they cheated...we are not for friends anymore and never talked beside work related stuff at work... thankfully our business closed and we went separate ways. I never see him or his wife out and about. I may sit her down and talk, last time we talked about it was this time last year. She said she would leave if I wanted her to and she didn't want me to be miserable with her... I told her it was just bad timing and I'd get over it like I always do.


Stop lying to her and yourself. You are not over it. Nor should you be. Why are you not more angry about it? What was your childhood like? Why are you willing to put of with something so indefensible?


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## Tilted 1

Avgman said:


> No I completely understand the harsh reality. I let myself get into this situation and if I where to say the hell with it we need a divorce I'd feel selfish and really screwed up that I kept her in the relationship this long... I should have manned up 9 years ago...


No! Don't feel selfish, she's the one who is that. And it's time to move on and divorce her. Your son is 16 and he knows what a great dad you are for one! And as little as it matters so does your it should be STBW. You paid the band put your time in and, guess what you can explain to your son no man should have endured what you did.

He's old enough for you to explain what his mother did, and you wanting to raise a well rounded young man. And you task is over and the deceit and lying is over. You have to move on and ask him to go with you. Finish up at his current school and, if he's going to college you'll do your best to help him. 

But allowing him to strive and depend on himself and you, and yes even his mom if she desires too. And if she doesn't guess what that's proof in it's self to show your son. She only wants to please herself.


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## sokillme

You act like not being over it is some kind of failing in you. A more healthy reaction would be to want to destroy them in righteous anger. Now I am not saying to do that (though if it was my "friend" I would have popped him in the mouth for sure) but besides that I would have rained fire. Did you at least tell his wife?


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## Lostinthought61

please tell me you cut that guy out of your life completely...and told his wife everything you knew...but the fact that your wife was never honest to me is a huge red flag...and if you asked her to take a polygraph now woudl she?


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## Avgman

Yes I called his wife right after I talked to her...the night I found out he was actually at our house. The wife has always been a hug and kiss on the check to our friends. That night I noticed him looking at her behind a lot, she was heading to the gym...she leaned over to kiss him and the way she put her hand on his face I immediately knew something was off. He was texting someone all day while at the house, later found out it was her. Time she left he asked me how long did I think it would take him to get home...he left immediately and of course it was to see her at the gym...I went to look at phone records and saw they had been texting all day everyday for 3 months.... I called her and said we need to talk...of course she had deleted their conversation. I immediately called his wife, she went crazy on him...it was definitely hard because of the relationship I thought we had as friends. A few months prior he took her to an amusement park for her birthday... I told her I didn't like the idea...the next day she is ready and running out the house with him...of course she didn't call or text me the entire day and he didn't call or text his wife. I blew that off after venting on them both, didn't realize that could have been the beginning of their relationship. 

My childhood was okay, dad was always and still is a prick... abusive to our mom early on and they have separated several times but remain together today.


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## Numb26

My guess would be that that wasn't her first time or last time having an A. Based on your reaction and your lack of action after finding out about this one she probably thinks (and rightly so) that she can get away with it. 
I would say that you do what is best for YOU. Leave.
You still have plenty of life to live, why would you want to spend it with someone who betrayed your trust, obviously doesn't respect you and has not given you the truth about what happened?


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## Lostinthought61

Avgman said:


> Yes I called his wife right after I talked to her...the night I found out he was actually at our house. The wife has always been a hug and kiss on the check to our friends. That night I noticed him looking at her behind a lot, she was heading to the gym...she leaned over to kiss him and the way she put her hand on his face I immediately knew something was off. He was texting someone all day while at the house, later found out it was her. Time she left he asked me how long did I think it would take him to get home...he left immediately and of course it was to see her at the gym...I went to look at phone records and saw they had been texting all day everyday for 3 months.... I called her and said we need to talk...of course she had deleted their conversation. I immediately called his wife, she went crazy on him...it was definitely hard because of the relationship I thought we had as friends. A few months prior he took her to an amusement park for her birthday... I told her I didn't like the idea...the next day she is ready and running out the house with him...of course she didn't call or text me the entire day and he didn't call or text his wife. I blew that off after venting on them both, didn't realize that could have been the beginning of their relationship.
> 
> My childhood was okay, dad was always and still is a prick... abusive to our mom early on and they have separated several times but remain together today.


i'm sorry but in stead of confronting her and threatening divorce it sounds like you swept this under the rug yourself...9 years and no more truths to be had


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## sokillme

Avgman said:


> abusive to our mom early on and they have separated several times but remain together today.


And you have been living in an abusive marriage for 9 years with a terribly abusive partner. Can't think of a more terrible way to emotionally abuse ones spouse then to sleep with their good friend and then gaslight about it for 9 years. 

Seems like this kind of marriage was modeled for you and so you chose it for yourself without even knowing it. Are you sure you are not modeling it for your son?


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## Avgman

So the polygraph question is good...at the very beginning of our relationship she was married to a drunk. He was in jail when we met and they were in the process of divorce. About 2 years into our relationship one of her friends called and told her she needed to confess immediately, I overheard her conversation and she denied everything. She actually had sex with her ex husband one day and never told me...this was prior to is moving in together....she denied having sex with him for years and I only got it from her when I told her some of our friends at a polygraph machine and they were coming over. I told her I was going to ask her about having sex with her ex...she broke down and admitted she did ...


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## sokillme

So she is a serial cheater. 

Have you thought about getting some IC? Maybe you should read codependency no more.


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## Avgman

I guess you would say she is...two times I know of in 18 years. The first one she says it was her husband and she didn't think we would be serious.


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## Tilted 1

Yes, deflection at works until it won't stick any more.


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## Marduk

@Avgman you need to make a choice.

You need to actually stay and reconcile (which means letting go of your wife’s affairs), or you need to actually divorce (which means letting go of your wife). You can’t do neither, which is what you’re trying to do.

I would suggest that it might be the case that you tried to reconcile but just can’t. And all of this is you trying to get yourself to realize that you need to leave your wife - and I don’t think many people would blame you for that. You have ample reason to leave.

So call the ball here, man. But you can’t go on like this 9 years later.


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## Avgman

I agree...it's not fair to either of us...she without a doubt thinks I'm divorcing her when our son turns 18. We actually kid around about it, we will have a minor disagreement and I'll say I can't wait till he's 18...it usually actually calms the mood down...


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## sokillme

Avgman said:


> I guess you would say she is...two times I know of in 18 years. The first one she says it was her husband and she didn't think we would be serious.


Who cares what she says, she is a liar and a cheat. Why would you believe her it's not like she is a paragon of virtue? People who act like your wife are not truthful, it's not a part of how they live their lives. She cheated with the best man at your wedding. Nuff said. 

Here is the thing. I think you know everything we are writing particularity my harsh comments. I think at the very least subconsciously there is nothing I or anyone else can say that you don't feel in your heart. I think that is why you can seemingly have a nice time but end up unhappy. Because deep down you know her love is deficient and you have settled. 

I think you mistakenly feel guilty because you are codependent. You probably always felt responsible for her but that is not the basis for a good marriage, though it is the kind of marriage that people who are married to serial cheaters get into. It's the male version of the women who tries to save the messed up guy she is with. That is what you are doing you are trying to save her. That is not what a healthy marriage is about. Besides that, you are not her father, you are her spouse, your commitment should have requirements. Fidelity should be a hard stop. 

I think often times people who are not sure in themselves kind of hedge their bets. It's like they think they are not worthy of someone who is honest and true but maybe if they pick someone who is a little broken if they love them enough then that will keep them from straying or at least it will cause them to want to stay with them. Kind of like buying a refurbished product or something. But people don't work that way, unless the work at Olympic levels the do not change who they are. It's in their nature. Besides all that to change they have to have that "ah-ha" moment where they get that they are broken and really WANT to change. 

I think if you really want a good life you have to start with you. Figure out why you have been willing to settle. Fix this and then the rest will work it self out. Either you being done will cause your wife to change or you will outgrow her. 

One other thing do assume because she hasn't cheated in a while you are safe. Cheaters cheat, that is what they do. Just read on these boards. Your kid will grow up and leave or a parent will die and she will revert to her nature. It's a very big risk.


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## Avgman

And to be fair...we don't fight or argue hardly ever...we haven't talked about the affair for a year, this time last year. So in all fairness I'm on here talking to you fine folks rather than her...I know what I'll get from her, kinda knew what of get here but I wanted to write it out somewhere to help get through these last couple of days...


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## sokillme

Why would you fight or argue when you decided to be so passive about it. As long at you don't push it she isn't going to. After all she has gotten all she could possibly want. You know this too though right? I mean that is what you are doing, venting to total strangers, which is the safest way to deal with this without upsetting anything. Then you can white knuckle it for another year.


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## Tilted 1

You seek, and paint the picture of victim. Why, rationalizing not arguing with her? Is a weak excuse at best. If it's sympathy you seek just say so or if its something else, please say so. 

Tilted


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## Casual Observer

I can relate completely to the issue of a day, or even a time of day, being a trigger. When I read the stuff my wife wrote about her immediately-prior (and undisclosed) relationship, detailed down to the time things happened, well, I sometimes have trouble between 11:30pm and 2am sleeping. I may have trouble coming up on Nov 15th too, but we're working on normalizing things.

So yeah, my situation was NOTHING like a PA or EA, just some lies and omissions about what went on a few months before, so if that can give me issues 42 years later, I can imagine how much worse it might be for some. Hang in there. Good to see it hasn't totally wrecked things for you.


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## Numb26

Casual Observer said:


> I can relate completely to the issue of a day, or even a time of day, being a trigger. When I read the stuff my wife wrote about her immediately-prior (and undisclosed) relationship, detailed down to the time things happened, well, I sometimes have trouble between 11:30pm and 2am sleeping. I may have trouble coming up on Nov 15th too, but we're working on normalizing things.
> 
> So yeah, my situation was NOTHING like a PA or EA, just some lies and omissions about what went on a few months before, so if that can give me issues 42 years later, I can imagine how much worse it might be for some. Hang in there. Good to see it hasn't totally wrecked things for you.


I am no longer with my STBXW and I get triggered very easily. I knew it would only get worse if I stayed which is why I left right away. It takes a stronger person then I am to stay and try to make things work.


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## skerzoid

Avgman said:


> I know, I know, let it go and stop wondering, it's been 9 years...just needed to write this out...don't know what kind of response I'm looking for, if one at all... maybe just writing it out helps me get through it...thanks....


Dude, you are a nice guy. *That is not a compliment.*

Here is a check list for you:

1. _*Here is a pdf file of "No More Mr. Nice Guy".*_ *Read it*: https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy

2. *Start practicing the 180 technique religiously with her. * Read it!!! Here is another link: https://healinginfidelity.blogspot.com/2014/03/the-180-for-hurt-spouses.html

3. * Go to a lawyer, just to find out what divorce really looks like.* Don't hide it from her. Start setting a tone.

4. *DNA the kids.* She doesn't seem above hiding something like that from you. Even if they are your spitting image. Sets a tone.

5. *Do not be afraid of being angry.* You have every right in the world to.

6. *Talk about a timeline of the affair to be backed up with a polygraph exam. * Its cheaper than a divorce if she passes.* Believe me, the threat of that will shake some apples loose.* What makes you think she's been innocent the last 9 years with her actions in the past?

7. *Women are drawn to Courage, Strength, & Confidence.* *Start working on that outlook for your own sake!*


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## TAMAT

AVG,

Ask her to write out a complete timeline for the affair.

Take her for a polygraph.

DNA testing for your child.

What did you do to screw up OMs life?


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## Avgman

No, I'm looking for sympathy..I've read many post on here and know the truth can be brutal. This was something for me to vent it off and get a slap in the face I guess, I don't really feel like getting into with her today...she's working, I'm on nights and we won't see each other till Fri evening at the earliest....

It's been a mess, it has been easier and easier as each year goes a long....this morning my Facebook post from when I found out popped up on my memories... That didn't help. I need to delete that mess, I had thought about asking her to delete post from 9 years ago but thought it was nice to have a reminder of how little she thought of me then in case I decide to go through with a divorce.


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## oldtruck

Avgman said:


> I often wonder if it's because I know deep down there is more to it...as hard as it was to hear the details I did manage to get from her I know there are more than likely more and for whatever reason 9 years later that still bothers me... would it make a difference, I don't know for sure, will she ever tell me now, no. When I did get the info from her it was they met 5 times, had sex 2 times on one of the meetings that ended in oral...the oral part bothers me...she said the second time he pulled her to the bedroom and the sex was going on she started to feel bad for what she was doing...she stopped him but felt bad for him and decided to finish him off that way....I was like gee thanks for caring... anyway, I asked her about the oral part and she then said it happened twice then when I said I thought it was once she said yeah it was just once...so you already know it's not all out there. My mind is always racing, not just this but this time of the year it consumes me...as bad as I want to ask her to explain the bon fire comment I know I will get nothing happened... maybe I'm just a nut, I do appreciate the comments.


you will never rest until you get the whole truth
this is why a polygraph is a must

does the OMW know about the PA?
if not she should be told asap


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## Marduk

Avgman said:


> I agree...it's not fair to either of us...she without a doubt thinks I'm divorcing her when our son turns 18. We actually kid around about it, we will have a minor disagreement and I'll say I can't wait till he's 18...it usually actually calms the mood down...


That isn’t healthy, man.


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## Tilted 1

Avgman said:


> No, I'm looking for sympathy..I've read many post on here and know the truth can be brutal. This was something for me to vent it off and get a slap in the face I guess, I don't really feel like getting into with her today...she's working, I'm on nights and we won't see each other till Fri evening at the earliest....
> 
> It's been a mess, it has been easier and easier as each year goes a long....this morning my Facebook post from when I found out popped up on my memories... That didn't help. I need to delete that mess, I had thought about asking her to delete post from 9 years ago but thought it was nice to have a reminder of how little she thought of me then in case I decide to go through with a divorce.


Well, that's honest. Thank you


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## Marc878

You stayed because you wanted to. You're staying now for the same reason.


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## Tilted 1

Well then, l guess you need a night out with a young friend or two, call in for Thursday go out and get totally smashed. Let your friends scrape ( designated driver) you up off the floor. Then recover on Friday and write down and rehearsed what you want to say and do it. Why?...... You feel lousy now why no t have a hangover and this way it was kinda fun getting there.


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## [email protected]

Avgman, it's clear that you are not over this. You have not healed, and you'd better let your WW know all about this. Moreover, from what I've read, it doesn't seem like she's done the work. To be perfectly clear, even after nine years, she has NOT tried to win you back. That's on her, but you have allowed her to skate. 
For me, it's also clear that you were ( and are now) plan B. How long will you put up with this?


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## scaredlion

I surmise, by what you have written, that your wife doesn't actually know exactly how you feel or the conflicting thoughts that run through your mind every year. So sit down and tell her exactly what you have written here. Ask her if she really loves you. Ask her what is her true feelings about you. Tell her you have always believed there was more to the affair. Tell her how you feel about her. Ask her what she truly wants from this marriage. 
There is on truths about questions. You will never get the answers if you don't ask the RIGHT questions. I do wish you well.


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## farsidejunky

Is this the man you want to be?

Knowing there is more, but settling for comfort, while threatening your wife with divorce...knowing that half kidding is half truth?

Does it feel like an authentic life to you? 

Does authenticity matter to you?

There was a time I could hide from the truth and live with myself. It's part of what led to my alcoholism...escapism... depression...

Then I pulled my head from my ass, and figured out that I was worthy enough to love myself. When that happened, the truth mattered...greatly. 

So...do you love yourself?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Avgman

Thanks for all the responses. I do need to talk to her again about how I feel every year, maybe I'll get more from her or is it possible she did tell me the truth about everything....

We plan on having a "us" Saturday evening, I think we are going somewhere that's about an hour away. I might try to start the conversation on the way and see how it goes. I do appreciate everything everyone has suggested, it helps to write it all out there.


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## ABHale

Avgman said:


> No I completely understand the harsh reality. I let myself get into this situation and if I where to say the hell with it we need a divorce I'd feel selfish and really screwed up that I kept her in the relationship this long... I should have manned up 9 years ago...


You can always man up. You gave it a shot and it sounds like you can’t get past it. How bad is the relationship going to get? 

I think it’s time to pull the plug.


----------



## ABHale

Avgman said:


> I know they cheated...we are not for friends anymore and never talked beside work related stuff at work... thankfully our business closed and we went separate ways. I never see him or his wife out and about. I may sit her down and talk, last time we talked about it was this time last year. She said she would leave if I wanted her to and she didn't want me to be miserable with her... I told her it was just bad timing and I'd get over it like I always do.


I love how she is so ready to leave. Your marriage is toast.


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## VladDracul

Avgman said:


> She said she didn't realize I loved her as much as I did


You don't understand "womanese" very well, do you?


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## Avgman

I just not understand that language, care to translate?


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## Avgman

***must not****


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## VladDracul

Check out the phrasing Dawg. If she'd ditched this guy because of you, she'd said, " I didn't realize how much I loved my husband". Add that to how easy she sez she'd be willing to leave. She's likely either saying she'd be willing to walk in order to get you to shut up and quit annoying her about it or telling you indirectly not to hang around for her benefit. Next time she sez it, tell her ok and see if you blinks. You'll have your answer.


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## jlg07

Avgman said:


> Numb26. Our relationship is pretty good, I often wonder if she's doing anything she shouldn't be but don't really have any reason to believe she is...she stays on the phone a lot but she is open and always willing to let me see what she's doing on there. She's awful with money management but would give me her last dollar if I needed it. Most of our friends are jealous of our relationship, SO, WHY didn't you tell everyone that she cheated on you? Exposure should have been part of this -- does her family know??we have great jobs, don't want for anything, have fun when we are together, etc. Sex life could be a tad better, stress from work, our son being older and in the house, etc. We are only off together 1 day a week on average...after finding out she was remorseful I'd say. Initially she had planned on moving out, said she had told him she was leaving me regardless. She said she didn't realize I loved her as much as I did, I often wonder if it's because he dropped her like a bag of rocks. His wife was pregnant, actually had their first child the weekend after I brought this to light. He had asked her to move away with him, she said he told her he didn't care about the unborn child but when I confronted them he was done with her...we actually worked together too so that added extra stress....


SHe's a serial cheat and I'd be surprised that her "ex" and your friend were the only two.


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## Avgman

I wouldn't be surprised at all...bit isn't that easy to say considering it's a fact for the other two times? The highlighted part of your comment, they do know...I guess it's chalked up as a rough patch and everyone has issues type stuff.


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## cp3o

Avgman said:


> ............She said she would leave if I wanted her to...............


To me this says two things.

One - that she wants out but is not prepared to be the one who initiates divorce. Quite common - they think that they will be blameless for breaking up the marriage if they are not the instigator of divorce. A bit like wanting to have your CV say that you resigned rather than that you were fired in that it is the same outcome but differently perceived by many.

Two - She is in control of the marriage. "I don't care whether we're married" - which is what she's saying - is a position of control - it means that, unless you walk, you are the supplicant, you are the weaker participant, you get walked over with hob-nailed boots. If you wish to stay in this relationship you must risk losing it - perhaps have her filed. You don't have to proceed to divorce but it would probably force her to decide to stay or go - and if she decides to stay you have a window of opportunity in which to assert yourself - including full disclosure confirmed by polygraph, sti tests (which you see the original results for), and full disclosure to friends and family.



Avgman said:


> I agree...it's not fair to either of us...she without a doubt thinks I'm divorcing her when our son turns 18.


I planned on staying until my younger child went to university. My XW suspected it but I never confirmed it. In practice my hand was, IMO, forced and I dumped her two years earlier than planned. Older kid stayed with me, younger with mother - no alimony or child support either way - simple 50/50 split of the equity in our house and that was it.

If you are confident that you can wait until the effects of divorce are minimised, particularly as regards your son, that may be the right way for you to go. There is, of course, the danger that you will be so worn down that you will be content to continue your fearful existence rather than act. It means another two years of being, at minimum, disrespected, and, at worst, the victim of a woman who starts, if she hasn't already, auditioning, perhaps blatantly, candidates for your replacement when son turns 18. 

Dropping the hammer a couple of years earlier than intended worked spectacularly well for me - you might consider it.


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## PreRaph

Avgman said:


> Numb26. Our relationship is pretty good, I often wonder if she's doing anything she shouldn't be but don't really have any reason to believe she is...she stays on the phone a lot but she is open and always willing to let me see what she's doing on there. She's awful with money management but would give me her last dollar if I needed it. Most of our friends are jealous of our relationship, we have great jobs, don't want for anything, have fun when we are together, etc. Sex life could be a tad better, stress from work, our son being older and in the house, etc. We are only off together 1 day a week on average...after finding out she was remorseful I'd say. Initially she had planned on moving out, said she had told him she was leaving me regardless. She said she didn't realize I loved her as much as I did, I often wonder if it's because he dropped her like a bag of rocks. His wife was pregnant, actually had their first child the weekend after I brought this to light. He had asked her to move away with him, she said he told her he didn't care about the unborn child but when I confronted them he was done with her...we actually worked together too so that added extra stress....


It's no wonder you haven't gotten over it. She said she was going to leave you regardless. You should have served her divorce papers right then and there, but you didn't and now you're paying for it.

I'm sorry OP, but you have a serious decision to make about you and your cheating wife.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Avgman said:


> I guess initially it was I didn't want to lose to another man, maybe... stupid I know. Then it was our son, which I'm so thankful I've been able to watch him grow up, he's 16 now. And I would say I do care for her, I'm good with everything except August to October 2010...


 So...now you're out of excuses for staying with her as your kid is grown and you're not 'losing' to some guy (actually, you'd be gaining). It seems you've allowed fear and inertia to rule your decision to stay with her. Sadly, it sounds as though you're just continually dining on that **** sandwich your wife and your best friend served up to you 9 years ago - to say nothing of all her other sleazy activity.

She's quite the catch, OP.

I don't get it. Don't you think you *DESERVE* better in life than accepting her low rent behavior and the outrageous disrespect both she AND your best friend had *no* problem shoving down your throat again and again and again???? 

Your wife is nothing more than a sleazy opportunist who monkey-branched back onto YOU when her boyfriend dumped her like the dead weight she actually is. How _convenient_ that she suddenly realized how much you looooove her only _*after*_ Romeo kicked her ass to the curb. Gosh, what were the ODDS of _that_ coincidence????

Look OP, I get that you want to keep your head in the sand because it feels so nice and warm around your ears, but you really need to find your dignity. It's like she's literally sicked the life right out of you.


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## Dragan Jovanovic

Why dont you tell her that you cant live loke that any moreand that you need the whole thruth from her and that you will be testing her on polygraph. And then you will find out everything. If dhe doesnt want to tell you the thruth or take a polygraph tell her that that is an automatic divorce. So you will get your answers. Simple.


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## EmeryB

Avgman - your initial post was about the time of year and how you always think about the affair at this same time each year. I'm not going to offer any marital advice like everyone else has done. However, I can certainly understand and relate to this yearly occurrence. 

Seven years ago in August (on our anniversary) I confirmed my husband had been having an affair for nearly a year at that point. I won't go into all the details too much, other than to say I gave him a chance when he swore it was over -- just to discover two more times that it wasn't over. I ended up divorcing him. 

Still to this day, guess what I always think about every August?? Yep, you guessed it. I think maybe I'll always react to that same time of year. And I'm even HAPPY with my life now. Very happy! Yet I can count on the fact that these "anniversaries" will likely always affect me. So staying with your wife or not staying with her may not have much of an affect on remembering what happened each year. During a time period when something that traumatic and horrible and life-changing happens, it's just difficult to not to acknowledge it. 

Hugs to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## VladDracul

Ultimately it boils down to two choices and only two choices no matter how you slice it. First realize its highly, highly likely she screwed and blowed your buddy time and time again. After the first time and the last time, I doubt if she even remembers how many times, but its reasonable to believe he got the full moxie during most encounters. At any rate, your two choices are:

A. Accept your chick banged and probably blowed the guy a minimum of 3-4 times a month and likely more than once during most encounters. Most likely they spent the day and or the night together at least once and probably more if the opportunity presented itself. From your statement, I'm assuming he pulled her into and had his way with her in your bedroom. If so, that was more a standard occurrence than an anomaly. 

B. Realize that you don't have it in you to forget her betrayal and hit the road. 

Right now I'm surmising youre about 75% A and 25% B. After 9 years, you probably need accept she and your buddy snookered you, you held on to what was left and are not going anywhere. By your own admission, she cleaned up pretty well. May as well hang in there and service each other. It ain't bad duty as long as she gives it up pretty much when you want it.


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## [email protected]

Avgman, I can see it now. You start to trigger, and she says, "Oh, by the way, I'm remorseful, and there's a big sale at Costco on toilet paper." Unless I missed it, it doesn't look like she's a bit reconciled or has helped to heal your pain. I'd bet that she settled for you: Vanilla who doesn't give her any trouble. Unless you face this thing head on, you will remain in the same state indefinitely.


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## a_new_me

Ok, this may NOT seem relevant to the situation directly, but it is.

In a few weeks will be my oldest sons 16th birthday. I was induced, I would not dilate and had an emergency c-section.
Because of timing and the drug levels in my body from labour and such and how it was now a life or death emergency, they sliced me open fast and it HURT LIKE NO OTHER PAIN I have ever experienced. It felt like I had been stabbed with a knife in the abdomen and ripped apart. I FELT EVERYTHING.

Now, 16years later, I still REMEMBER EVERYTHING.....ALL THE PAIN I FELT AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.THE EMOTIONS.

Now, even though this happened, do I love my son less? Do I torture him for the pain that I felt? No and no.

I still think about what happened, but it was out of my control and even though I hurt for a long time after, I GRIEVED that pain and I moved forward.

Now, even though these situations are not the same, the context is.

I think you need to grieve that this happened so that you can move forward in your life, however you choose to do that.
I may be wrong, but I think you are stuck on those past moments and it sounds like everything is great otherwise.

Grieve. You are allowed to.
Move forward with a healthy heart. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BruceBanner

Avgman said:


> Does anyone else have problems mainly around the time you found out about the affair? I found out 9 years ago to the date about my wife having a PA with what I thought was my best friend. I was the best man in his wedding and all that. They texted each other 1000' of times a month, had the affair, etc. I still remember all the dates that she laid out for me, even though I know it was more hook ups than she indicated....I can't stop looking through old Facebook post, imagining what she was thinking when she wrote them...one that gets me is we had a b day party for my brother, her and the bf went riding around in the golf cart, she swears nothing happened but her Facebook posts says " last night was so much fun, a bon fire never felt soooo good before" I just have to imagine something happened that night...I know, I know, let it go and stop wondering, it's been 9 years...just needed to write this out...don't know what kind of response I'm looking for, if one at all... maybe just writing it out helps me get through it...thanks....


You obviously aren't over this so when do you think you'll be getting a divorce?


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## sokillme

BruceBanner said:


> You obviously aren't over this so when do you think you'll be getting a divorce?


Dudes never getting a divorce. Not a chance. This is a textbook symbiotic relationship.


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## jlg07

Avgman said:


> I wouldn't be surprised at all...bit isn't that easy to say considering it's a fact for the other two times? Yes it's indicative of her character -- YOU need to recognize that.The highlighted part of your comment, they do know...I guess it's chalked up as a rough patch and everyone has issues type stuff.


So, she CHEATED, and it's ok because EVERYONE goes through that?? THAT's what her family says? WOW, no wonder she is like she is.


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## Avgman

Maybe I never do get a divorce...is a divorce the only answer? No, I'm not happy with what happened but I said I'd get over it with time... didn't think 9 years later it would still be on my mind...and it isn't 90% of the time, like I originally wrote it's this time of the year....a month from now I might think briefly about it and move on... I think 18 years of relationship is a long time to throw away. I know, it meant nothing while she was doing what she did...


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## sokillme

Then like I said in my first post then, this is your life. Learn to love it. And maybe she won't cheat on you again but I would say the odds are against you. It's in her nature.


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## Tatsuhiko

She was never remorseful. Didn't give a rat's ass about helping you heal. You unselfishly stayed to be a father to your son and see if she could make herself worthy of you. She hasn't yet. Now it's time to file for divorce, if for no other reason than to get a look at what your wife is really made of.


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## Dragan Jovanovic

Avgman,do you really want to live your life like this?? 9 years passed,and nothing changed. Do you realy want to live the rest of your life like that?


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## Gabriel

Avgman said:


> Maybe I never do get a divorce...is a divorce the only answer? No, I'm not happy with what happened but I said I'd get over it with time... didn't think 9 years later it would still be on my mind...and it isn't 90% of the time, like I originally wrote it's this time of the year....a month from now I might think briefly about it and move on... I think 18 years of relationship is a long time to throw away. I know, it meant nothing while she was doing what she did...


9 years and it still is a major problem during this time of year. 

9 years is a VERY long time. This tells me there are unresolved issues. 

You either need to resolve them or be okay with your annual misery. Can't see how year 10, 11, 12, etc, will be any different.

Here's the thing though - at some point, it's not fair to you OR HER to drudge up the same feelings and conversations every year for this long. So you could spin it that way, and say, look Honey, I know that every year you must dread these conversations, and it's not fair to punish you over and over again. So I need to either fish or cut bait, for both of us. In order to do that, we need to have one last really hard talk. I need to know everything once and for all - because in my gut, I feel I don't know everything still. Then after that, we can either truly move forward, or we can separate and move on. Will be better for both of us either way.

<<<<<for comparison, it took me about 3 years to not trigger or bring things up during "that time of year". My wife didn't have a physical affair but the emotional affair was a major betrayal (long story). 3-5 years is a typical time frame. 9 is way past that.>>>>


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## SunCMars

Avgman said:


> I know they cheated...we are not for friends anymore and never talked beside work related stuff at work... thankfully our business closed and we went separate ways. I never see him or his wife out and about. I may sit her down and talk, last time we talked about it was this time last year. She said she would leave if I wanted her to and she didn't want me to be miserable with her... *I told her it was just bad timing *and I'd get over it like I always do.


You do not know how correct you are. :smile2:

Life is measurable. 

We divide this conscious time into year segments and day segments. All based off of planetary motion.

It seems we are doomed to repeat the past. If not in reality, then in memory of past realities.

Seven years thru nine, belongs to Saturn. It seems you do, too, not two.

Your' every year, same time, that felt pain? The Sun revisits that tender point in time's march forward. 

I suspect you feel of this, four times a year. Every three months being square.

When the calendar date meets the same (period), it is felt more so, as worse.

This is your lot, and her lot. :|

Your joined married lots share water and soil. Her soil? :frown2:

Even those couples who seem totally disconnected, are never this. 
Their fates are interlocked, for good or nil, til death do you part. 
And, maybe longer. :surprise:

You see....

You die, fhoo, the threads that spun you, do not do so....immediately.
History, retains of those threads.


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## SunCMars

Avgman said:


> Maybe I never do get a divorce...is a divorce the only answer? No, I'm not happy with what happened but I said I'd get over it with time... didn't think 9 years later it would still be on my mind...and it isn't 90% of the time, like I originally wrote it's this time of the year....a month from now I might think briefly about it and move on... I think 18 years of relationship is a long time to throw away. I know, it meant nothing *while she was doing what she did*...


While she was doing it, she was not yours.

She was a captive of her self centered mind.
She was pushed off center by her unwinding place in time.


----------



## Taxman

Avgman I have been in and around the divorce industry for many years now. I have served a number of individuals in your shoes. I have seen them divorce ten, twenty years later. I have seen them take revenge on their spouses, either shortly after confrontation, to years later. I have seen some come back to the marriage after they got the resentment out of their system, and I have seen them blow up a marriage that limped along for in some cases decades after the affairs.

There are a few things that you should read before making decisions. On this site, there is an entry in the divorce/separation forum titled, "Those Who Move Through It. Read those entries. Then, have a look at another site called surviving infidelity. Look up waitedwaytoolong's posts. He tried to live with it for five years. First he tried a separation where he admitted to several revenge affairs, then he realized that the resentment never left, and he needed a divorce. I have clients routinely read posts like this. It helps the situation if you see that others have been in your shoes, and the outcomes of their situations are an alternative method of guidance.


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## BluesPower

a_new_me said:


> Ok, this may NOT seem relevant to the situation directly, but it is.
> 
> In a few weeks will be my oldest sons 16th birthday. I was induced, I would not dilate and had an emergency c-section.
> Because of timing and the drug levels in my body from labour and such and how it was now a life or death emergency, they sliced me open fast and it HURT LIKE NO OTHER PAIN I have ever experienced. It felt like I had been stabbed with a knife in the abdomen and ripped apart. I FELT EVERYTHING.
> 
> Now, 16years later, I still REMEMBER EVERYTHING.....ALL THE PAIN I FELT AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME.THE EMOTIONS.
> 
> Now, even though this happened, do I love my son less? Do I torture him for the pain that I felt? No and no.
> 
> I still think about what happened, but it was out of my control and even though I hurt for a long time after, I GRIEVED that pain and I moved forward.
> 
> Now, even though these situations are not the same, the context is.
> 
> I think you need to grieve that this happened so that you can move forward in your life, however you choose to do that.
> I may be wrong, but I think you are stuck on those past moments and it sounds like everything is great otherwise.
> 
> Grieve. You are allowed to.
> Move forward with a healthy heart.


You really just know nothing about infidelity...Do you? 

It does not work like this. 

In his case, he should have divorced her the moment that it happened. Further, since she was never forth coming about what actually happened, he was never able to heal. Sill another reason he should have divorced. 

But, like many, he was too weak, and to UN-self-aware to know what to do. He does not realize it, but if he divorced now, he might find happiness, or at least find peace...

Read up some, about this stuff...


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## alte Dame

There is a tipping balance in our lifetimes. When we reach a certain age, we no longer subconsciously think that we have 'all the time in the world.' Instead, we know that we don't and can't believe that we have lived with certain things for so long. We think we have wasted our lives.

For me, this age was 60. This was when I finally faced down the issues that were weighing me down and I was just 'living with.'

What I can tell you is that you will reach this stage and you will regret having let this go on this long.

According to you, a full quarter of every year is spent in pain as you trigger from her affair. Is that worth it?

For her, it is old news. Ten years from now, she will mistakenly believe that it's so long ago that she can finally tell the truth. She will do that and act very surprised when you flip out about it.

You have swept this under the rug. You don't have the truth. At this rate, it is never going away.

If you are going to stay, make her take a polygraph. Believe me when I say that you will feel like less of a fool at 9 years out than at 25 years out.


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## BluesPower

alte Dame said:


> There is a tipping balance in our lifetimes. When we reach a certain age, we no longer subconsciously think that we have 'all the time in the world.' Instead, we know that we don't and can't believe that we have lived with certain things for so long. We think we have wasted our lives.
> 
> For me, this age was 60. This was when I finally faced down the issues that were weighing me down and I was just 'living with.'
> 
> What I can tell you is that you will reach this stage and you will regret having let this go on this long.
> 
> According to you, a full quarter of every year is spent in pain as you trigger from her affair. Is that worth it?
> 
> For her, it is old news. Ten years from now, she will mistakenly believe that it's so long ago that she can finally tell the truth. She will do that and act very surprised when you flip out about it.
> 
> You have swept this under the rug. You don't have the truth. At this rate, it is never going away.
> 
> If you are going to stay, make her take a polygraph. Believe me when I say that you will feel like less of a fool at 9 years out than at 25 years out.


This is a great post, and completely true about all of it...


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## ABHale

Avgman said:


> Maybe I never do get a divorce...is a divorce the only answer? No, I'm not happy with what happened but I said I'd get over it with time... didn't think 9 years later it would still be on my mind...and it isn't 90% of the time, like I originally wrote it's this time of the year....a month from now I might think briefly about it and move on... I think 18 years of relationship is a long time to throw away. I know, it meant nothing while she was doing what she did...


If it meant nothing, why did she do it then? She put everything at risk for something that “meant nothing”.


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## Marduk

ABHale said:


> If it meant nothing, why did she do it then? She put everything at risk for something that “meant nothing”.


It means that their marriage was worth less than nothing to her. 

That’s just being rational.


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## a_new_me

BluesPower said:


> You really just know nothing about infidelity...Do you?
> 
> It does not work like this.
> 
> In his case, he should have divorced her the moment that it happened. Further, since she was never forth coming about what actually happened, he was never able to heal. Sill another reason he should have divorced.
> 
> But, like many, he was too weak, and to UN-self-aware to know what to do. He does not realize it, but if he divorced now, he might find happiness, or at least find peace...
> 
> Read up some, about this stuff...




What he should have done 9 years ago is not really applicable....or your choice.

He chose not to divorce her 9 years ago and is still stuck in his feeling about it.

He needs to grieve so he can heal because he is obviously is still in pain from this.

If he chooses to get a divorce or not is his decision.

Try to be supportive, instead of abusive by saying he is weak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sokillme

I think the real problem with threads like this is that to a certain and why some responders get frustrated extent they are not done in good faith. If there is never really a plan to leave an abusive person like this then there is really no point to posting about it on a board like this. I mean I guess you can post to get some commiseration but it's really a waste of time for everyone involved. 

That is really what SI's reconciliation board is. It's a board for a bunch of people in miserable marriages to complain about it. As long is I am on this board I am always going to actively try to prevent this place from turning into that because I feel that is a very unhealthy place. It does more hurt then good. 

The truth is 



> The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
> ..Einstein​


His world might be miserable but at this point it's a world of his own making. The relationship he has now with his wife is not a path towards happiness.


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## nekonamida

BluesPower said:


> You really just know nothing about infidelity...Do you?
> 
> It does not work like this.
> 
> In his case, he should have divorced her the moment that it happened. Further, since she was never forth coming about what actually happened, he was never able to heal. Sill another reason he should have divorced.
> 
> But, like many, he was too weak, and to UN-self-aware to know what to do. He does not realize it, but if he divorced now, he might find happiness, or at least find peace...
> 
> Read up some, about this stuff...


Agreed. Infidelity is more like having a broken bone that wasn't set right. It causes all sorts of problems indefinitely until you finally get it fixed. And to a marriage, it's like cancer. It causes a slow, painful demise when it's ignored.

Avgman, we once had a poster who rugswept for 20 years before he up and left his WW because when he confronted her after all that time, she refused to give him the truth. So out the door he went with his dog. If anyone remembers his username, please post it so that Avg can look him up and read his thread. This **** never ends. You will easily be here in another 11 years, feeling the exact same way you do today, if you allow it.

There's one thing that really stands out to me. You told her it was still hurting you last year and she offered to leave and give you a divorce. Does that really sound like someone who will work with you to fix this and help you heal? Does that sound like someone who really wants to stay married to you? To me, it sounds like someone who's content staying married but will jump ship the second things get hard. How bluntly she said that to you is a bit shocking and concerning. It sounds like she's okay losing you as a husband if it means she doesn't have to deal with any of this infidelity crap she inflicted upon you.

I hope that you can find some sort of resolution to this. R, D, whatever. Just as long as you don't keep doing exactly what you're doing right now trying to stuff down your pain and hold it all in at your own detriment.


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## [email protected]

In the case of a friend, it took 16 years. His WW had moved on, became an ideal spouse, even counseled against infidelity. Yet, he finally bailed.


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## shortbus

Avgman said:


> Maybe I never do get a divorce...is a divorce the only answer? No, I'm not happy with what happened but I said I'd get over it with time... didn't think 9 years later it would still be on my mind...and it isn't 90% of the time, like I originally wrote it's this time of the year....a month from now I might think briefly about it and move on... I think 18 years of relationship is a long time to throw away. I know, it meant nothing while she was doing what she did...


I don't post much, most people can't be helped.
And this, fellow readers, is why my advice would always be to divorce upon discovery.
9 years of hell, 9 years of self enforced limbo. 9 years of **** sandwich. Sounds delicious.
9 ****in' years of wasted time, when that's the only commodity you really have.
I hope things work out for you, Shortbus out.


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## Rubix Cubed

shortbus said:


> I don't post much, most people can't be helped.
> And this, fellow readers, is why my advice would always be to divorce upon discovery.
> 9 years of hell, 9 years of self-enforced limbo. 9 years of **** sandwich. Sounds delicious.
> 9 ****in' years of wasted time, when that's the only commodity you really have.
> I hope things work out for you, Shortbus out.


 Not only this ^, but he's playing the sunk cost fallacy game with those 9 years that were of his own making.
Rugsweep for half the relationship and then say you can't leave because of the rug swept years. He wants to stay so that's what he'll do, tormenting himself (but only this time of year) for the rest of his life. Talk about a self-imposed hell.


----------



## Avgman

Since the replies went completely off topic I'll change my original thought...let me ask, if she is telling the truth and came completely clean with everything and I did make the decision to stay, which I have, how is it completely hell or a waste? I originally asked of people had a hard time when the anniversary came around, I mentioned not completely knowing the truth, etc...I could divorce her now, find a new love and would you ever really know the truth about what happens with the new relationship? No, maybe you just don't ever find out...I'm not trying to justify it either way but I'm not sure all the comments/replies match what I was originally asking...


----------



## manfromlamancha

I don't think posters here on TAM have gone off-topic. I understand you needing to know if what you are going through is normal and if so, how do people cope with it.

The answer IMHO is that yes it is normal (which is what collective TAM is saying) and that the best way to cope is by being certain of the truth - hence the need to either do a poly (yes even 9 years on) or something equally effective (e.g. more investigation into info which may not be possible now). Else, you will continue to live in doubt which leads to depression, fear, anger etc which is no way to live a life. The conclusion is that if you are not satisfied that you have got the truth then there is no respite and divorce is the only solution.

There was a significant amount of deception, and if what you say is correct, the facts she provided do not pass the sniff test. There seems to be a high probability that there was more to it - you need to know if there was, and if so, why she did not disclose the whole truth. Also if she has lied about it, then how did she manage to go through 9 years of lying to you without caring about your mental anguish.

Your wife may be a model wife now but this will eat at you and if there was deception in what she has told you, is probably not the wife you think you have.

Do the poly. Get some closure on not knowing asap. Then come back for advice on either result as to what you could/should do next.

Good luck.


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## VladDracul

Avgman said:


> I mentioned not completely knowing the truth, etc...I could divorce her now, find a new love and would you ever really know the truth about what happens with the new relationship? No, maybe you just don't ever find out...I'm not trying to justify it either way but I'm not sure all the comments/replies match what I was originally asking...


Here's the thing Dawg. How will you ever know if you got the "truth"? My take is you're not so much upset about not having an accounting of the event, but really that she told you not only did she have a thing with your buddy but that she had lost interest in the you and the marriage, most likely before the coupling of her and your bud, and had planned to ditch you. 
If, after nine years you say you've wrestled with this, you need to put your own issues on the table and stop trying to convince us everything other than the once a year anniversary is just peachy. What did it really tell to you when you discovered your wife and buddy was going at it? Do you think she's only with you as a matter of convenience because her romance with your bud fizzled and nothing better came along? Are you staying with her out of convenience because you don't want to be alone while knowing you'd rather be elsewhere. You need the answers worse than we do my man.


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## BluesPower

Avgman said:


> Since the replies went completely off topic I'll change my original thought...let me ask, if she is telling the truth and came completely clean with everything and I did make the decision to stay, which I have, how is it completely hell or a waste? I originally asked of people had a hard time when the anniversary came around, I mentioned not completely knowing the truth, etc...I could divorce her now, find a new love and would you ever really know the truth about what happens with the new relationship? No, maybe you just don't ever find out...I'm not trying to justify it either way but I'm not sure all the comments/replies match what I was originally asking...


The point is that you feel this way because you did not deal with this 9 years ago, and you are not dealing with it now. 

You wonder why you feel the way you do??? Well, probably you can expect to feel this way for the rest of your life, or get some new type of therapy where they make you forget the past. 

You want people to tell you what you want to hear, most of us don't do that hear at tam. Unlike other places. We try to be straight with people. 

You want to know how you get through this, divorce her or get her (not really possible) to be actually remorseful and some how manage to help you heal. 

When you rug sweep and accept the unacceptable, this is what happens, which is why we strongly urge people TO NOT RUG SWEEP... 

Because most of the time... THIS is what happens...


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## Chaparral

What do you think knowing everything will do for you? 
It is almost certain they did a lot more than she admitted, that is almost always the case.

If you think it will help tell her how you feel. Write out your questions, give them to her and ask her if she is willing to answer them AND take a polygraph to prove it? 
She probably really believes you will leave her in a couple of years. Have you told her you would not? If she believes it, she is probably already making plans. 

You decided to carry on and not lose to your friend. I understand that. The betrayal you carry is huge. The question is are you still willing to pay the price. Will divorcing her make you whole again. I doubt it. Will it punish her? Undoubtedly.

One question on your list should be has she cheated any other time. Watch her closely to see her reaction to that.

Do you think she was really sorry she did it?


----------



## Chaparral

Btw, have you gotten individual therapy for yourself? Has she? 

In your case you may want to get EMDR therapy.


----------



## OutofRetirement

Your someday wife cheated on you with her husband while she was separated from him and she was with you, though it wasn't serious at that time. The important thing to take away from that is that your wife lied to you about it for a few years, adamantly. Then, you told her that your friends were coming over with a polygraph machine, and your wife finally came clean. You are not scarred by that situation, I guess because you and your wife were not seriously committed. But I think it's important to tell you something about your wife, who was a formed adult at that point, about how she handles things. She lies. She has been a liar. She is a liar.

So one possible solution is to ask her to take a polygraph now.

Another takeaway from that first situation is that your gut was correct. I think most of the time, the large majority of the time, the gut is correct. Some people post "always trust your gut." I don't know about always, but if you trusted your gut, very likely you'd be right upwards of 90% of the time. Now, for nine years, your gut is that your wife lied about the details of the sexual relationship and the romantic relationship. Bascially she told you the best friend pushed for it, and your wife was uncomfortable and did it because she didn't want to make him feel bad. Is the claim intercourse once and oral once?

I would say your gut is probably correct. Definitely you have some messages, Facebook I guess, that shows she was so happy to be with him at a bonfire. Just by raw numbers, you know for a fact that she texted him about 100-plus times more than you during those periods.

Your wife is not an evil genius. I won't go into the details you posted that shows she's not. But my point is going to be that your wife is a creature of habit. She has not changed much. She jumped from her ex to you. She was about to jump from you to your best friend. Like with her ex, she couldn't just get rid of him and be with you. There had to be a period of time of taking a few test drives with the new car before getting rid of the old one. That's how she handles her romance. I'm going to go out on another limb and say that she never has been without a boyfriend/husband since she was early in high school. She always swung from one tree branch to another, never hitting the ground between. That's my guess.

So trust your gut. She had a lot of sex with your former friend, she was into it. She felt deeply about him, the way she touched his face outside the gym. All of the number of texts, the lack with you, all of the other info would fit those puzzle pieces in the jigsaw. The puzzle pieces she is giving you are like putting a square peg in a round hole. They don't fit with the facts you are aware.

My suggestion is, one, ask for a polygraph. Option B, if no polygraph, just accept your gut. As far as wanting a liar to give truth based on love, your wife isn't that person. She might give you her last dollar, but she lies when it makes her look bad. I don't think she's going to change.

We all have flaws. She sounds like a nice person, you seem to be happy with her, except that she betrayed you and lied to you about it. They lying thing might be a very big deal. That is never going to change. It is in the past, it cannot change. It happened. My observation is that most people can let go of mistakes, bad decisions, over a period of time, if the other person reconciles it properly. Your wife never did that. I refer it making amends. First step, come clean, accept the whole wrong things that were done, second step, sincerely apologize for those things, third step, try to make it right, to the extent that you can. Your wife never reached step one, tell the full truth, thus her apology is a fake apology, an apology based on a lie, a minimization, and she did try to make it right, but very possible in my opinion you could move ahead if she gave you the full truth. The thought process, to me, is how could she be so sorry she did it if she won't even tell the truth about it? It's hard to let it go when she hasn't let it go for you by telling you the truth. Deep down there is a doubt of true love from her to you if she has let this lie fester for so long.


----------



## ABHale

Avgman said:


> Since the replies went completely off topic I'll change my original thought...let me ask, if she is telling the truth and came completely clean with everything and I did make the decision to stay, which I have, how is it completely hell or a waste? I originally asked of people had a hard time when the anniversary came around, I mentioned not completely knowing the truth, etc...I could divorce her now, find a new love and would you ever really know the truth about what happens with the new relationship? No, maybe you just don't ever find out...I'm not trying to justify it either way but I'm not sure all the comments/replies match what I was originally asking...



To answer your question it is no.


----------



## alte Dame

Avgman said:


> ... I originally asked of people had a hard time when the anniversary came around, I mentioned not completely knowing the truth, etc..


I think the message people are trying to convey regards causality:

You have a hard time when the anniversary comes around *because* you don't know the truth. Usually, this hard time lessens with time as long as the betrayed person has the truth. It can eventually fade to nothing.

Other people who never have the truth have much the same experience, if that is your question.

Around here, we'd like to see people deal with a given issue and live a happier life, not just find out whether other people are experiencing the same miserable thing. It's true that misery can love company, but if you don't have to live in misery, why do it?

In your case, the consensus is that you should push for the truth so that you can feel better in the long run. Right now you are in a limbo in which you feel pain for a not insignificant part of every year from something she did a long time ago. I think you could improve the situation, not just recognize it. It's like having a broken leg and refusing to have a doctor set it. The remedy is there, but you won't pursue it.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Chaparral said:


> Btw, have you gotten individual therapy for yourself? Has she?
> 
> In your case you may want to get EMDR therapy.


Go read his intro thread, there is a ton of context missing from this one. There was a point where they broke up and had other relationships before they were married.

There’s a ton of baggage.

IMO, he was guilted into accepting all of the blame, for her cheating, by a poor marriage counselor.

Also, I think the child has a ton to do with them getting married IMO.


----------



## wmn1

sokillme said:


> Sorry to be harsh but when I read posts like this I have to shake my head. You think your wife had an affair with your best friend and the best man in your wedding? My questions is why you would think making a life with a person who could do that to you isn't going to suck? Do you think that a situation like that ever gets better? Do you think if you stay with that person who betrayed you so terribly it would ever go away? Why would you think that? What in life has told you that that is the basis for a good happy life or marriage?
> 
> I mean if you choose a career where you are only going to make minimum wage do you think somehow you will on day be independently wealthy?
> 
> Again this is harsh but it's the most truth you are ever going to get on sites like this. This is who you picked to spend your life with either accept it or move on.


agreed with this


----------



## wmn1

nekonamida said:


> Agreed. Infidelity is more like having a broken bone that wasn't set right. It causes all sorts of problems indefinitely until you finally get it fixed. And to a marriage, it's like cancer. It causes a slow, painful demise when it's ignored.
> 
> Avgman, we once had a poster who rugswept for 20 years before he up and left his WW because when he confronted her after all that time, she refused to give him the truth. So out the door he went with his dog. If anyone remembers his username, please post it so that Avg can look him up and read his thread. This **** never ends. You will easily be here in another 11 years, feeling the exact same way you do today, if you allow it.
> 
> There's one thing that really stands out to me. You told her it was still hurting you last year and she offered to leave and give you a divorce. Does that really sound like someone who will work with you to fix this and help you heal? Does that sound like someone who really wants to stay married to you? To me, it sounds like someone who's content staying married but will jump ship the second things get hard. How bluntly she said that to you is a bit shocking and concerning. It sounds like she's okay losing you as a husband if it means she doesn't have to deal with any of this infidelity crap she inflicted upon you.
> 
> I hope that you can find some sort of resolution to this. R, D, whatever. Just as long as you don't keep doing exactly what you're doing right now trying to stuff down your pain and hold it all in at your own detriment.


wasn't it Cromer ?


----------



## Gabriel

nekonamida said:


> Agreed. Infidelity is more like having a broken bone that wasn't set right. It causes all sorts of problems indefinitely until you finally get it fixed. And to a marriage, it's like cancer. It causes a slow, painful demise when it's ignored.
> 
> Avgman, we once had a poster who rugswept for 20 years before he up and left his WW because when he confronted her after all that time, she refused to give him the truth. So out the door he went with his dog. If anyone remembers his username, please post it so that Avg can look him up and read his thread. This **** never ends. You will easily be here in another 11 years, feeling the exact same way you do today, if you allow it.
> 
> *There's one thing that really stands out to me. You told her it was still hurting you last year and she offered to leave and give you a divorce. Does that really sound like someone who will work with you to fix this and help you heal? Does that sound like someone who really wants to stay married to you? To me, it sounds like someone who's content staying married but will jump ship the second things get hard. How bluntly she said that to you is a bit shocking and concerning. It sounds like she's okay losing you as a husband if it means she doesn't have to deal with any of this infidelity crap she inflicted upon you.*
> 
> I hope that you can find some sort of resolution to this. R, D, whatever. Just as long as you don't keep doing exactly what you're doing right now trying to stuff down your pain and hold it all in at your own detriment.


This is incredibly wise.

And the bold paragraph is especially applicable to you.

And even more specifically, the two sentences in red.


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## phillybeffandswiss

nekonamida said:


> Agreed. Infidelity is more like having a broken bone that wasn't set right. It causes all sorts of problems indefinitely until you finally get it fixed. And to a marriage, it's like cancer. It causes a slow, painful demise when it's ignored.
> 
> Avgman, we once had a poster who rugswept for 20 years before he up and left his WW because when he confronted her after all that time, she refused to give him the truth. So out the door he went with his dog. If anyone remembers his username, please post it so that Avg can look him up and read his thread. This **** never ends. You will easily be here in another 11 years, feeling the exact same way you do today, if you allow it.
> 
> There's one thing that really stands out to me. You told her it was still hurting you last year and she offered to leave and give you a divorce. Does that really sound like someone who will work with you to fix this and help you heal? Does that sound like someone who really wants to stay married to you? To me, it sounds like someone who's content staying married but will jump ship the second things get hard. How bluntly she said that to you is a bit shocking and concerning. It sounds like she's okay losing you as a husband if it means she doesn't have to deal with any of this infidelity crap she inflicted upon you.
> 
> I hope that you can find some sort of resolution to this. R, D, whatever. Just as long as you don't keep doing exactly what you're doing right now trying to stuff down your pain and hold it all in at your own detriment.


Yes and what I find interesting is, she keeps joking, so does he, about him leaving when their child turns eighteen. Is it really joking or two people weighing options?


----------



## Tilted 1

alte Dame said:


> I think the message people are trying to convey regards causality:
> 
> You have a hard time when the anniversary comes around *because* you don't know the truth. Usually, this hard time lessens with time as long as the betrayed person has the truth. It can eventually fade to nothing.
> 
> Other people who never have the truth have much the same experience, if that is your question.
> 
> Around here, we'd like to see people deal with a given issue and live a happier life, not just find out whether other people are experiencing the same miserable thing. It's true that misery can love company, but if you don't have to live in misery, why do it?
> 
> In your case, the consensus is that you should push for the truth so that you can feel better in the long run. Right now you are in a limbo in which you feel pain for a not insignificant part of every year from something she did a long time ago. I think you could improve the situation, not just recognize it. It's like having a broken leg and refusing to have a doctor set it. The remedy is there, but you won't pursue it.



Wish I could like this twice,......... Oh l just did!


----------



## Avgman

OutofRetirement said:


> Your someday wife cheated on you with her husband while she was separated from him and she was with you, though it wasn't serious at that time. The important thing to take away from that is that your wife lied to you about it for a few years, adamantly. Then, you told her that your friends were coming over with a polygraph machine, and your wife finally came clean. You are not scarred by that situation, I guess because you and your wife were not seriously committed. But I think it's important to tell you something about your wife, who was a formed adult at that point, about how she handles things. She lies. She has been a liar. She is a liar.
> 
> So one possible solution is to ask her to take a polygraph now.
> 
> Another takeaway from that first situation is that your gut was correct. I think most of the time, the large majority of the time, the gut is correct. Some people post "always trust your gut." I don't know about always, but if you trusted your gut, very likely you'd be right upwards of 90% of the time. Now, for nine years, your gut is that your wife lied about the details of the sexual relationship and the romantic relationship. Bascially she told you the best friend pushed for it, and your wife was uncomfortable and did it because she didn't want to make him feel bad. Is the claim intercourse once and oral once?
> 
> I would say your gut is probably correct. Definitely you have some messages, Facebook I guess, that shows she was so happy to be with him at a bonfire. Just by raw numbers, you know for a fact that she texted him about 100-plus times more than you during those periods.
> 
> Your wife is not an evil genius. I won't go into the details you posted that shows she's not. But my point is going to be that your wife is a creature of habit. She has not changed much. She jumped from her ex to you. She was about to jump from you to your best friend. Like with her ex, she couldn't just get rid of him and be with you. There had to be a period of time of taking a few test drives with the new car before getting rid of the old one. That's how she handles her romance. I'm going to go out on another limb and say that she never has been without a boyfriend/husband since she was early in high school. She always swung from one tree branch to another, never hitting the ground between. That's my guess.
> 
> So trust your gut. She had a lot of sex with your former friend, she was into it. She felt deeply about him, the way she touched his face outside the gym. All of the number of texts, the lack with you, all of the other info would fit those puzzle pieces in the jigsaw. The puzzle pieces she is giving you are like putting a square peg in a round hole. They don't fit with the facts you are aware.
> 
> My suggestion is, one, ask for a polygraph. Option B, if no polygraph, just accept your gut. As far as wanting a liar to give truth based on love, your wife isn't that person. She might give you her last dollar, but she lies when it makes her look bad. I don't think she's going to change.
> 
> We all have flaws. She sounds like a nice person, you seem to be happy with her, except that she betrayed you and lied to you about it. They lying thing might be a very big deal. That is never going to change. It is in the past, it cannot change. It happened. My observation is that most people can let go of mistakes, bad decisions, over a period of time, if the other person reconciles it properly. Your wife never did that. I refer it making amends. First step, come clean, accept the whole wrong things that were done, second step, sincerely apologize for those things, third step, try to make it right, to the extent that you can. Your wife never reached step one, tell the full truth, thus her apology is a fake apology, an apology based on a lie, a minimization, and she did try to make it right, but very possible in my opinion you could move ahead if she gave you the full truth. The thought process, to me, is how could she be so sorry she did it if she won't even tell the truth about it? It's hard to let it go when she hasn't let it go for you by telling you the truth. Deep down there is a doubt of true love from her to you if she has let this lie fester for so long.


Thanks for the reply...it was pretty soothing to read actually. Explaining it the way you did makes it easier for me to regroup and focus the thoughts I ha e in a different direction, not so as much about the episode itself but events leading to it and the way she handled them. 

The claims of the intercourse and oral were supposedly a one time deal at his house. The had intercourse, it wasn't what she imagined or hoped for, as she put it. They went back out of the room and 20 mins later or so he was pulling her back in telling her he wanted to redeem himself...she says this was better but then she felt bad for what she was doing so time him to stop...this is when the oral occurred... I'm amazed how well I can remember this, I can remember her finally admitting to it, I can remember her stumbling somewhat when I tried to get her to mess up the confession...like I said or twice and she agreed, then I said you originally said once and she was like yeah that's what I meant to say....I ha e a hard time remembering so much other stuff but this is what runs through my mind....

The Facebook post, there are several...you go through 2010, you see where it was about me, us, our family...and then you see the turn. It was actually in August, I took him and his pregnant wife on vacation with us...the 3 of us went to a bar and his wife stayed with our son...this is where he supposedly told her he was in love with her....

The weekend we got home she found out her grandma had passed.... another state, so I flew her out to be with the family. The course of 4 days or so I think we texted 20 times, them, over a 1000. She said mainly about her grandma, yeah right. 

But this is where the post start about " when your with someone you can't stop thinking about them, when they leave it's like a nightmare I'll never wake up from till I see them again" type stuff. 

One night they hooked up at a local park, while I was getting ready for work she post " I like it, so wherever the mood strikes I'm game" these plus the bonfire post. It's sad I know, but I can't help but to imagine more happening. The day she had him over the house, I can still remember the towel from my shower being in a different spot and thinking that was weird.... obviously he was there I know now but according to her it was just laying in the bed making out...I as a man couldn't imagine going through all that to just make out..

I do appreciate your post, it was what I needed to read.


----------



## nekonamida

wmn1 said:


> wasn't it Cromer ?


No, it wasn't but he's a good one too. The poster I'm talking about had his first thread be one telling people he successfully rug swept for 20 years, knew some details about his WW's A the whole time but never talked about it, and then a few weeks later decided he did have more questions and confronted her.


----------



## Tilted 1

So avg, where this leading you?


----------



## drifting on

Here’s what I think about your situation, read carefully, this isn’t probably what you want to hear. The remainder of life you have left will forever be marked with sadness. You will always question, regardless of what you hear, which is why your brain is the way it is. More happened, you struggle with it, and soon it will consume you. Until this is settled you will remain in a place that is unhealthy, fact is, you haven’t gotten over the affair hardly at all. You sit and wonder about Facebook posts, her thoughts of that time, and her thoughts of you. You wonder how she could be so cruel to her family, yet are confused as to why you accepted her back. 

None of this will go away, but you thought time would heal this, only you found out time makes it worse. After nine years you should be far more healed then you are, truthfully you may be about nine months healed. Your mind is actually protecting you, preparing you that this affair was much worse then your wife let on. You know this, yet you get no answers and try to plod forward into darkness. Only when your wife decides to give a full confession can you BEGIN to heal. I don’t think that confession is coming, because your wife is not only s coward, but she is selfish in keeping her secret alive within her. 

Much like people keep mementos from periods of their life, your wife is keeping hers by keeping the secret. She should have left you like she intended, because when your kid becomes 18 she will become much like a single woman. She thinks you will divorce her, so she will find “company” to fall back on. Your wife is a spineless woman, she couldn’t even leave you after her affair, instead she clung to you because she simply had nothing else. Her family knows and seem to not give what she did a thought, trust me she won’t care to cheat again. 

You have somewhat maybe realized this, and it’s eating away at you fiercely. Your wife cheated after nine years, so that is how long you’ve been married, not the 18 you say. The marriage died the day she cheated, and deep down you know this to be true. A disaster is coming, and your brain is trying to tell you that.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Here’s what I think about your situation, read carefully, this isn’t probably what you want to hear. The remainder of life you have left will forever be marked with sadness. You will always question, regardless of what you hear, which is why your brain is the way it is. More happened, you struggle with it, and soon it will consume you. Until this is settled you will remain in a place that is unhealthy, fact is, you haven’t gotten over the affair hardly at all. You sit and wonder about Facebook posts, her thoughts of that time, and her thoughts of you. You wonder how she could be so cruel to her family, yet are confused as to why you accepted her back.
> 
> None of this will go away, but you thought time would heal this, only you found out time makes it worse. After nine years you should be far more healed then you are, truthfully you may be about nine months healed. Your mind is actually protecting you, preparing you that this affair was much worse then your wife let on. You know this, yet you get no answers and try to plod forward into darkness. Only when your wife decides to give a full confession can you BEGIN to heal. I don’t think that confession is coming, because your wife is not only s coward, but she is selfish in keeping her secret alive within her.
> 
> Much like people keep mementos from periods of their life, your wife is keeping hers by keeping the secret. She should have left you like she intended, because when your kid becomes 18 she will become much like a single woman. She thinks you will divorce her, so she will find “company” to fall back on. Your wife is a spineless woman, she couldn’t even leave you after her affair, instead she clung to you because she simply had nothing else. Her family knows and seem to not give what she did a thought, trust me she won’t care to cheat again.
> 
> You have somewhat maybe realized this, and it’s eating away at you fiercely. Your wife cheated after nine years, so that is how long you’ve been married, not the 18 you say. The marriage died the day she cheated, and deep down you know this to be true. A disaster is coming, and your brain is trying to tell you that.


Let me add when you move on meet and fall in love with someone else, assuming they are a GOOD catch, you will no longer feel pain about this. It's the love that causes the pain, once the love dies the pain goes away. Then your current wife just becomes some person in your history you had the misfortune to be involved with.


----------



## Avgman

drifting on said:


> Here’s what I think about your situation, read carefully, this isn’t probably what you want to hear. The remainder of life you have left will forever be marked with sadness. You will always question, regardless of what you hear, which is why your brain is the way it is. More happened, you struggle with it, and soon it will consume you. Until this is settled you will remain in a place that is unhealthy, fact is, you haven’t gotten over the affair hardly at all. You sit and wonder about Facebook posts, her thoughts of that time, and her thoughts of you. You wonder how she could be so cruel to her family, yet are confused as to why you accepted her back.
> 
> None of this will go away, but you thought time would heal this, only you found out time makes it worse. After nine years you should be far more healed then you are, truthfully you may be about nine months healed. Your mind is actually protecting you, preparing you that this affair was much worse then your wife let on. You know this, yet you get no answers and try to plod forward into darkness. Only when your wife decides to give a full confession can you BEGIN to heal. I don’t think that confession is coming, because your wife is not only s coward, but she is selfish in keeping her secret alive within her.
> 
> Much like people keep mementos from periods of their life, your wife is keeping hers by keeping the secret. She should have left you like she intended, because when your kid becomes 18 she will become much like a single woman. She thinks you will divorce her, so she will find “company” to fall back on. Your wife is a spineless woman, she couldn’t even leave you after her affair, instead she clung to you because she simply had nothing else. Her family knows and seem to not give what she did a thought, trust me she won’t care to cheat again.
> 
> You have somewhat maybe realized this, and it’s eating away at you fiercely. Your wife cheated after nine years, so that is how long you’ve been married, not the 18 you say. The marriage died the day she cheated, and deep down you know this to be true. A disaster is coming, and your brain is trying to tell you that.


Yes, I believe what your saying...I just spent 2 hours on the lawnmower thinking about every post I've read on here... sometimes in think we are blinded by what we want to believe and cannot see the truth. I think I know the truth but will never get it from her, when I ask she swears she has told me absolutely everything...she has definitely fabricated up some good lies, the post on Facebook about liking it and doing it wherever the mood strikes is about a pocket book she says...haha, like I said, this is hours before they road around and ended up at a local park for hours while I was working this night. Her family doesn't care...her mom and dad are split, her mom runs threw men like I drink water and her brother who is only 30 has been divorced twice...they all knew, hell, her mom would come over and watch out son and let her use her car to go meet up...the night they met at the park her mom and I actually talked for a long time before I left for work...this probably made the wife upset because she had plans. But I was telling the mom how I'd been in a bad mood lately because our plant was closing and I was the only income, I knew it was going to be tough for us. She says y'all will be okay, now get to work...for f sake, 10 mins later she's pushing her daughter out the door to do his knows what with him...

We were thinking of doing something alone next weekend, I may try to get something out of her then...

Thinking about just straight up saying I don't care about other details except for the truth about what I think, the bon fire, the night at the park and our house while I w as working...what exactly will knowing this do? I'm not sure, will it leave me wanting more if she confirms she was lying this whole time? Maybe I do get something more , I will find out I guess.


----------



## Tilted 1

Avgman said:


> Thinking about just straight up saying I don't care about other details except for the truth about what I think, the bon fire, the night at the park and our house while I w as working...what exactly will knowing this do? I'm not sure, will it leave me wanting more if she confirms she was lying this whole time? Maybe I do get something more , I will find out I guess.


Bingo!! Exactly and you got it! It was always known by you now what are you going to do?

Luck and take the bull by the *****!!!


----------



## sokillme

She had sex with the best man in your wedding. What could she say that would make that any worse then it needs to be? That basically tells you all you need to know about how she really thinks about you and what type of person he is. Don't you already know enough?


----------



## Avgman

Sokillme, I was actually the best man at his wedding...this was right after a back surgery that went wrong and I wasn't even supposed to stand up for a few more weeks. I actually checked out of the hospital just to make it to the wedding....

I did a lot for this dude, not as much as she did I guess. He was new at the plant,had no friends, no money...I took him into our home, I hung out with him as tight as brothers...I helped him get ahead at the plant, all of my friends came to his house warming, his wedding, etc... I even helped him get on a team in an effort to save the plant, I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.


----------



## Numb26

Avgman said:


> Sokillme, I was actually the best man at his wedding...this was right after a back surgery that went wrong and I wasn't even supposed to stand up for a few more weeks. I actually checked out of the hospital just to make it to the wedding....
> 
> I did a lot for this dude, not as much as she did I guess. He was new at the plant,had no friends, no money...I took him into our home, I hung out with him as tight as brothers...I helped him get ahead at the plant, all of my friends came to his house warming, his wedding, etc... I even helped him get on a team in an effort to save the plant, I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.


That guy needs d*ck punched


----------



## BruceBanner

Avgman said:


> I took him into our home,


Never do something like this again.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

I’ve been here 6 years and many people post close to a major decision or finding out something awful. 

You’ve toughed it out, rugswept by some, for eight years. What is different this year?


----------



## Nucking Futs

nekonamida said:


> No, it wasn't but he's a good one too. The poster I'm talking about had his first thread be one telling people he successfully rug swept for 20 years, knew some details about his WW's A the whole time but never talked about it, and then a few weeks later decided he did have more questions and confronted her.


Wranglerman.


----------



## Avgman

No one else will ever come into my home again haha...

I made the same mistake back when I was 18, high school girlfriend did the same exact thing....I was always working night and she was screwing around with my buddy. That's something else that kills me, when I met my wife I told her what my high school girlfriend had done...she said she was a ***** and would never do something like that...only to do it 9 years later.


----------



## Avgman

Nothing is different...just really felt like getting out instead of dealing with it by myself like I normally do. I don't keep a lot of friends, for obvious reasons...so I decided this year I'd write it out somewhere...


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Avgman said:


> Nothing is different...just really felt like getting out instead of dealing with it by myself like I normally do. I don't keep a lot of friends, for obvious reasons...so I decided this year I'd write it out somewhere...


That is different. So, what triggered this change? Again, it is 8 years of dealing with it yourself.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Avgman said:


> No one else will ever come into my home again haha...
> 
> I made the same mistake back when I was 18, high school girlfriend did the same exact thing....I was always working night and she was screwing around with my buddy. That's something else that kills me, when I met my wife I told her what my high school girlfriend had done...she said she was a ***** and would never do something like that...only to do it 9 years later.


If you read around enough, you’ll realize this is common.


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## Avgman

Yes, I assume it's low self-esteem, my wife is a nice looking woman...I'm average, maybe...the friend was not a good looking guy....it was a reason she was his 3rd woman at his age...I don't understand this part, most of what I've read is they go for something better...

I was a manager, he was an operator, I was established, he's was literally paycheck to paycheck and depending on his wife where I was the bread winner. I'm the country boy that she likes, he was the mixed between thing wanna be and hill Billy, he was the drunk alcoholic that was like her ex husband, I'm the guy everyone looks up to (not trying to be conceited) just a fact...

One of our last arguments about this was a ride through the country...I was hunting one night and my ex best friends wife had text me, it was late and she was telling me how she wished her husband was more like me... she text me often, I always blew it off and said he was a good guy and it was all okay...the reality was I probably could have been hooking up with his wife all along but I'm not that guy....

When we discovered what happened this was on the table in full affect, of I turned it down... sometimes I think would it have made all this easier if I'd just went on and done it... I'm glad I didn't, it wasn't the right thing to do...


----------



## Marc878

This isn't a court of law. You don't need evidence or proof. You know the score.

Only option would be a polygraph.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Avgman said:


> Yes, I assume it's low self-esteem, my wife is a nice looking woman...I'm average, maybe...the friend was not a good looking guy....it was a reason she was his 3rd woman at his age...I don't understand this part, most of what I've read is they go for something better...
> 
> I was a manager, he was an operator, I was established, he's was literally paycheck to paycheck and depending on his wife where I was the bread winner. I'm the country boy that she likes, he was the mixed between thing wanna be and hill Billy, he was the drunk alcoholic that was like her ex husband, I'm the guy everyone looks up to (not trying to be conceited) just a fact...
> 
> One of our last arguments about this was a ride through the country...I was hunting one night and my ex best friends wife had text me, it was late and she was telling me how she wished her husband was more like me... she text me often, I always blew it off and said he was a good guy and it was all okay...the reality was I probably could have been hooking up with his wife all along but I'm not that guy....
> 
> When we discovered what happened this was on the table in full affect, of I turned it down... sometimes I think would it have made all this easier if I'd just went on and done it... I'm glad I didn't, it wasn't the right thing to do...


Yes, this happens as well. So does your thought of a revenge affair. 

Sorry, no, what you read is not always true, not by a long shot. We have multiple threads and news stories which prove better looking and well paid do not matter during an affair. It is called “Affaring down.” Yes, many affairs include steps down in looks and lower pay.


----------



## sokillme

Avgman said:


> Sokillme, I was actually the best man at his wedding...this was right after a back surgery that went wrong and I wasn't even supposed to stand up for a few more weeks. I actually checked out of the hospital just to make it to the wedding....
> 
> I did a lot for this dude, not as much as she did I guess. He was new at the plant,had no friends, no money...I took him into our home, I hung out with him as tight as brothers...I helped him get ahead at the plant, all of my friends came to his house warming, his wedding, etc... I even helped him get on a team in an effort to save the plant, I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.


You are married to that guy in the female form. In fact she's worse as she was your wife so she had more responsibility. As folks go not much difference between your wife and that guy.


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## VladDracul

Avgman, why don't you study up on interrogation techniques and body language to indicates deception before any more confrontations with her.


----------



## OutofRetirement

I say nobody gets the full truth. In reality, some people do, a very few, maybe less than 1%. But it's almost impossible to get the full truth. Even if you know all the hard facts, you never get to see what was inside her head. Even if you got her diary, her journal, would it be the full truth? Probably not.

The cheaters lie to the affair partner, too. The cheating wife usually is motivated by the emotional "feelings." The cheating wife will lie to the affair partner, the cheating wife will lie to herself, to keep getting the "feelings" coming. The feelings the cheating wife wants usually is feeling desired, feeling feminine, feeling a sexual, romantic being, feeling validation of their looks, their desirability. Doesn't that feel good for everyone? Maybe not enough for you to cheat to get it, but for your wife, and for many others, including husbands, too, that's a big part of it. Your wife does not seem all that motivated by sex, but she was willing to trade the sex for the feelings.

Your loser friend who you tried to help, your wife didn't care about anything else than the fact that he wanted her in a way she hadn't felt from you. That may or may not be true, but that was what your wife felt. That was her feeling. Typically as husband and wife in a longer-term marriage, especially with kids in the house, romance and sexuality gets compartmentalized to the last thing to do, and one or the other of you is too tired by the time it gets there. You talk about how the baby or kid is, if the child is sick, behaving well or not, having friends or not, coordinating the birthday parties and such the kid has to attend, school issues, finance issues, chores, cars, jobs, extended family members, etc., etc., etc. How do you separate that from when it is time for romance?

Compare that with the affair partner. The affair partner and your cheater focus completely on romance and sex and I love you's. You the betrayed fool, is the babysitter, so the two cheaters can focus only on their sex and "feelings." It's an escape, it's an addiction, it's a vacation from reality. Yet it seems real to the cheaters at that time. Frequently, I don't say most, the guy is motivated largely by sex. There is an emotional feeling of being wanted, of being able to get this committed woman, being wanted more than the boss, who has a lot more money and status, so the affair partner guy thinks he must really be the hottest guy around, a real gift to women because he doesn't have the same other things in life than you. Or he thinks himself more skillful than you in being a player. Very typical these guys drop the married cheating woman as soon as the gig's up. He doesn't really like her that much other than the sex, too much work to give her all those feelings, when all he wants to do is have the sex, he doesn't want the baggage of her and her kids and her wanting to be provided financially. I think deep down all those involved know this, but the cheating wife sometimes is lying to herself, optimistically thinking "why would he say he loved me if he didn't reallly" when she does know that some guys might lie to get in a woman's pants, but by that time she's already painted him as a really nice, honest, stand-up guy.

Did your wife really want to drop whatever she's doing to go be with this guy at a moment's notice like the post you read she told him? Maybe, but probably not, but she wanted to keep him giving her those feelings. Did you think he really wanted to text her a thousand times every day? No, but that was a price to get what he wanted. She wanted all that attention. How validating could it be, some guy texts her a thousand every day to tell her how he wants her, send me some pics, I can't wait to do it with you again, you're so hot and pretty, blah blah blah, and she says "why would he invest so much time if he really didn't love me?"

I have my own sad story, I've read a lot about others, both people I know in person, and reading so much online, that these things are fairly predictable. It is both disturbing and reassuring to see how predictable people are given similar situations. That's not just true about infidelity. But you as a "9 years later" guy posting on an anonymous forum, I could probably go and easily find a dozen or so "5 years later" or "12 years later" or whatever, and every guy is posting basically the same as yours, saying the wife is sorry, but they don't feel like they got the whole truth, they don't want to blow up their life over it, conflicted, still bothers them, they never bring it up with their cheater. These cheaters are not bad people. If you divorced your wife, you'd go out with women eventually and you'd never know. After divorce, your wife would meet a guy quick, she can't be without a man in her life too long, never has been I'd bet, and I'm pretty sure she would never tell the guy about the cheating unless she said stuff like "it was a rocky time, he showed no interest in me, I thought he didn't care about me" and basically blamed you for it. But likely she never tells the next guy at all.

You are not immune to lying to yourself, either. There is a reason you posted now 9 years later. You reached a point of "this isn't getting better and I thought it would." Like a small physical ailment that's not healing, at some point, you reach out for the doctor. Maybe you go online first and read to find out what the problem is, what others have had it, and is there a fix for me.


----------



## BluesPower

Avgman said:


> I remember the day I suggested it, he was at her work with his tongue down her throat that morning...we had just talked 20 mins prior....he worked with me and the wife worked about 5 minutes from the plant, so he would go see her in the mornings when he got off.


See, even after everything everyone has said, you still think it was his tongue... 

HIS TONGUE WAS NOT DOWN her throat, it was another body part... 

Dude, just file for divorce. She is never going to tell the truth, you don't have the balls to make her take a poly, and you are not healing. 

If this is what you want for your life, god bless you.

If you want a real life, file for D and move on...


----------



## [email protected]

I have read a couple of his last posts. Avgman will be here a year from now with the same problem.


----------



## sokillme

OutofRetirement said:


> You are not immune to lying to yourself, either. There is a reason you posted now 9 years later. You reached a point of "this isn't getting better and I thought it would." Like a small physical ailment that's not healing, at some point, you reach out for the doctor. Maybe you go online first and read to find out what the problem is, what others have had it, and is there a fix for me.


To me it kind of works that way. When the WS has an affair they live compartmentalized and kind of ignoring reality, and for the BS to R they have to do the same to a certain extent.


----------



## Jksc11

Avgman. I am in the midst of something similar to you right now. A little different but similar. A couple months ago I found out about a 6 month physical affair that my then girlfriend, now wife, had while we were together 8 years ago. It feels like it happened 2 months ago and has been the worst thing that’s ever happened to me. We are doing lots of work and talking more openly than we ever have. I’m not sure where we will end up but we are both committed to the process, with the ball in my court if/when to call it quits. One thing you’ve heard here a lot and I will echo is that you need the truth or you’ll be stuck. Hearing the truth hurt me a lot, but gone are the sneeking suspicions. It allows you to attempt recovery starting from a place of honesty. 

As for getting the truth. Do not “ask” for it. That hasn’t worked and likely won’t work. It didn’t work for me. Tell her “I know for certain that I don’t have the truth from you about what happened 9 years ago.” Tell her you are certain there is more to the story and then ask her to talk. This may be hard but you also have to tell her that added details won’t make you more angry, more hurt. In all reality they may, but giving her some assurance that the truth will be taken by you as a positive thing will get you further than threatening to fly off the handle. Attempt to make her feel safe with telling you the truth. This may take a few conversations. Trust your gut and look for a coherent story that “makes sense”. If she admits to being with him 20 times but says sex happened once, you probably haven’t reached the truth. Once you have it, there will be some relief that the truth is finally out, followed by intense pain that on top of doing this, they lied to you for many years. It’s kind of a catch 22. 

The second thing I’d suggest is getting into a good marriage counselor. Go by yourself, go with your wife, but go there and talk about these things. Much of the advice you have been given here is good, but isn’t a replacement for talking to an expert face to face. Maybe go to one first by yourself. Explain your situation, then have your wife come in and see if they can help her being open with you. Long after you have the truth you will need to talk about her motivations/justifications for doing this. Getting the truth is the important first step, but working on this stuff goes way beyond just knowing what happened and then being all good after that. Good luck.


----------



## colingrant

Avgman said:


> Yes, I believe what your saying...I just spent 2 hours on the lawnmower thinking about every post I've read on here... *sometimes in think we are blinded by what we want to believe and cannot see the truth. I think I know the truth but will never get it from her, when I ask she swears she has told me absolutely everything...she has definitely fabricated up some good lies, the post on *Facebook about liking it and doing it wherever the mood strikes is about a pocket book she says...haha, like I said, this is hours before they road around and ended up at a local park for hours while I was working this night. Her family doesn't care...her mom and dad are split, her mom runs threw men like I drink water and her brother who is only 30 has been divorced twice...they all knew, hell, her mom would come over and watch out son and let her use her car to go meet up...the night they met at the park her mom and I actually talked for a long time before I left for work...this probably made the wife upset because she had plans. But I was telling the mom how I'd been in a bad mood lately because our plant was closing and I was the only income, I knew it was going to be tough for us. She says y'all will be okay, now get to work...for f sake, 10 mins later she's pushing her daughter out the door to do his knows what with him...
> 
> We were thinking of doing something alone next weekend, I may try to get something out of her then...
> 
> Thinking about just straight up saying I don't care about other details except for the truth about what I think, the bon fire, the night at the park and our house while I w as working...what exactly will knowing this do? I'm not sure, will it leave me wanting more if she confirms she was lying this whole time? Maybe I do get something more , I will find out I guess.


In bold. Self awareness is critically important for the BS. You can paralyze yourself by declaring her truthfulness is what will un-blind you. You know it. No need to have her validate it, as that will only weaken you. Very important thing to know and remember. A wayward spouse .......



will lie with a hand on the bible to save her/his reputation and tell you they're telling you the truth
will maintain a lie for decades and live with themselves.
is empowered by you asking, insisting or begging for the truth because it's clear that if you're still with them and reconciling, then it's removed their incentive to be truthful, if they really want to be with you. The moment you choose to move on with your life is the moment you may be closer to knowing what you wish to know. It's really on you, not her and she knows it. 
will choose you being in pain and discomfort for years and decades and still choose her/him self. Your pain means nothing to them. 
Preservation of their reputation is 10 times stronger than reducing your pain and anguish.


----------



## VladDracul

If someone can answer the question, "If someone gives a followup and corrected statement on their _true and entire story_ how are you going to know it the true and entire story?" I'd appreciate it. It sounds as if youre setting an unattainable goal for yourself and there will always be a question if you really got the truth.


----------



## VermiciousKnid

You haven’t gotten over it because you never really dealt with it. You were/are plan B. She wanted him. That didn’t work out so she settled for you. You can’t get past this because you know that’s true and it’s slowly killing you like cancer. There is a cure though.


----------



## inging

HI there
Sorry you are here. I am chipping in because 9 years ago I was in a very similar position. I Divorced her after 18 months. I don't regret it as it allows space in your life for new things to happen.

I am not saying that you should Divorce her but you should consider what you want out of life. Your kids are seeing you suffer. They are also seeing your wife go through the motions.

Is this really what you want out of life. is this it? Do your kids deserve to see you happy and free. Their Mother freed from "obligation"

Life is short.


----------



## MJJEAN

BluesPower said:


> She is never going to tell the truth, you don't have the balls to make her take a poly, and you are not healing.


 @Avgman

I was a wayward wife in my first marriage. 9 years after the fact I would _not_ have been able to recall details like how many times, when, where, was there oral, ect, even if my life depended on it! Your wife clearly didn't give you the full truth back then and, after 9 years, she may be incapable of giving you the full truth now, even if she wanted to.

You know they had an affair. You know they had sex multiple times. You know your wife betrayed you and lied to you repeatedly during the affair. You know she concealed the full truth after. That's all you need to know. The details really don't matter in the end. If you can stay married knowing what you know, then let it go. If you can't, then leave guilt free. You were betrayed, not the betrayer. 

Think of it like this. A company chooses to operate unsafely and there is a chemical industrial incident. A clean-up crew agree to take the job of clearing the land of contaminants and diligently set to work using all available techniques. After some time has passed, it is discovered the ground is too contaminated and cannot be cleaned. Should the clean up crew feel guilty? Of course not! They didn't spill those chemicals.


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## VladDracul

Avgman needs an complete answer to one key question that embeds virtually all the other questions he may have and is the one he really wants to know. "Why did you have an affair?"


----------



## Avgman

We had a good conversation last night, she still says that's all that happened and she would tell me if there was more....

She was dining last night which is rarity. 

She says she cheated because he said all the right stuff, of course he did, I was unknowingly coaching him. He was literally asking me what kind of stuff I'd tell my wife, he said he needed advise because his marriage wasn't going the best, even with a kid on the way. I even told him things to try sexually, obviously I didn't know he was using this on the wife. She literally told me it was like US in the beginning.


----------



## Avgman

***drinking*** not dining, she never ever drinks...


----------



## VladDracul

Avgman said:


> She says she cheated because he said all the right stuff,


Not a good answer my man. She's holding back. Women don't cheat because a man said the right stuff. She had to be vulnerable to hearing the right stuff. Frame your question around why she was vulnerable to hearing the right stuff.


----------



## OutofRetirement

So her reason is new to you? Didn't you ask her why before this?


----------



## Avgman

No, that's what she said all a long...just answering the previous post. Her story didn't change, I figured she would have got mad because we were actually having a good night last night...but she answered and told me she would tell me if there was more...


----------



## Rubix Cubed

What happens when another guy says "all the right stuff"?


----------



## snerg

Avgman said:


> We had a good conversation last night, she still says that's all that happened and she would tell me if there was more....
> 
> She was dining last night which is rarity.
> 
> She says she cheated because he said all the right stuff, of course he did, I was unknowingly coaching him. He was literally asking me what kind of stuff I'd tell my wife, he said he needed advise because his marriage wasn't going the best, even with a kid on the way. I even told him things to try sexually, obviously I didn't know he was using this on the wife. *She literally told me it was like US in the beginning.*


Really?

So knowing it was like the two of you, she still chose to go on with the affair?

Really?

This was her answer all along?

And you accept that?

Dude, that should be reality slapping you in the face right now.


----------



## MJJEAN

Avgman said:


> We had a good conversation last night, she still says that's all that happened and she would tell me if there was more....
> 
> She was dining last night which is rarity.
> 
> She says she cheated because he said all the right stuff, of course he did, I was unknowingly coaching him. He was literally asking me what kind of stuff I'd tell my wife, he said he needed advise because his marriage wasn't going the best, even with a kid on the way. I even told him things to try sexually, obviously I didn't know he was using this on the wife. She literally told me it was like US in the beginning.


So, in a more boiled down form, she betrayed you because he whispered a few sweet nothings in her ear and made her bits tingle?


----------



## Gabriel

Look, you are never getting any more information. Maybe there is more, maybe there is not. Maybe she really doesn't remember, or maybe she's holding back.

You'll never know more than you know now.

So the question is, what are you going to do? I see three potential outcomes.

1) You stay married, and every year you are miserable for 2 months, wondering, feeling that pang in your gut.
2) You stay married, and let this all go, for real.
3) You divorce.

1 is not working for you, or else you wouldn't be here.


----------



## drifting on

Well, I guess now I see why you haven’t healed in the least. Even after nine years, the best answer your wife can give is, he said all the right things. An answer that shallow would be hard to accept for anyone. What concerns me more about this answer, is that if you give a compliment her pants fall down. Now I’m not trying to be rude, this was also a part of my wife’s affair. We aren’t nine years out from her affair, but at nine months out my wife wouldn’t have said he said the right things. 

My suggestion to you, give your wife a notebook with blank paper and a pencil, give her one week to write out her affair. She isn’t going to remember everything, but she will remember in general terms. Tell her if you can’t get over what you don’t know, this marriage won’t stand a chance. You may get a few new answers, but in all honesty I don’t see her coming up with what you need. There is no shame in not being able to save a marriage after infidelity.


----------



## SunCMars

MJJEAN said:


> So, in a more boiled down form, she betrayed you because he whispered a few sweet nothings in her ear and made her bits tingle?


At least she is honest, painfully so. In our, not so humble, opinion.

When a wayward makes some (bare to the bone) sense, they (hopefully) no longer have this need of 'lying' down naked, with them flogging that non-sense.

She likely has told you her 'better half' truth, and that she is no longer prone to lying about where her hard bones were then felt and are now buried. 

Is what she has told you, in some way insufficient?

If so, why?


----------



## SunCMars

drifting on said:


> Well, I guess now I see why you haven’t healed in the least. Even after nine years, the best answer your wife can give is, he said all the right things. An answer that shallow would be hard to accept for anyone. What concerns me more about this answer, is that if you give a compliment her pants fall down. Now I’m not trying to be rude, this was also a part of my wife’s affair. We aren’t nine years out from her affair, but at nine months out my wife wouldn’t have said he said the right things.
> 
> My suggestion to you, give your wife a notebook with blank paper and a pencil, give her one week to write out her affair. She isn’t going to remember everything, but she will remember in general terms. Tell her if you can’t get over what you don’t know, this marriage won’t stand a chance. You may get a few new answers, but in all honesty I don’t see her coming up with what you need. There is no shame in not being able to save a marriage after infidelity.


Why waste the time?

She was not fully committed to him, back then, maybe she is now, maybe not.

A timeline and a bare-all facts treatise will never let the ugly scab from the (9 yr-old ugly truth), heal and fall off.

She cheated, she enjoyed it, and it is now in the past. What else can she say?
Saying sorry fifty times, is this OK?

He knows, she knows she cheated, let (those dirty facts) go, or let the marriage go.
There simply is no other option.

Life is too damn short. Amen.

Living and suffering with her 9 year old past sins, is past any common sense grief.

It needs to end. The search for truth, or the marriage itself.
Sheez! Enough already!



TT 1-


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## SunCMars

This is why Mankind suffers so much.

They cannot let the past go and then live on into the future.

Forgiving, and not forgetting 'can' work.
Never forgetting, and never forgiving is death on your own dime, during your own squandered time. 

Since life is limited to those short aware times, any felt pain must be put to bed early.


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## Tilted 1

Avgman, it's time to get off of that dance floor. The song is a repeat, divorce and survive. You can't be happy and yes you can get enjoyment out of a dog, for awhile, but sooner than later. It's gonna take a dump. 

Be a man divorce already.


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## ABHale

I wonder how many guys have said all the right things over the past nine years


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## Yeswecan

Avgman said:


> No, that's what she said all a long...just answering the previous post. Her story didn't change, I figured she would have got mad because we were actually having a good night last night...but she answered and told me she would tell me if there was more...


I can not say sitting in bewilderment because your WW has nothing to say about her indescretions is a great way to go through life. Perhaps you should tell your WW that you have more to say. Then discuss what a D would look like. Perhaps then your WW could find that "more to say."


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## ABHale

Sorry for the response to what you posted but there is a reason for it. For what you have posted it sounds like your wife is with you for any reason other then love. 

How many times has she offered to leave?

You are not her type, she has proven that by her first husband and the OM. 

You are the safe bet, the type she knew she should be with. The nice guy. 

Above all, she is still lying to you.


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## [email protected]

ABHale has it right. She doesn't love you!


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## inging

I think it is a bitter pill to swallow. She cheated and then told you that "it was like our beginnings".

What she has told you is : She fell in love with him and then was surprised that you loved her so much so the came back.
She has offers to leave if you can't get over it. 

If i heard this again in my life it would not take one minute to decide that the relationship was over . This is with the benefit of hard earned hindsight. At the time I was like you are now. Like many of us really.

Your self respect has taken a long vacation and it is not sitting well with you. You are getting continued posts about this because you are so blinded that you can not see how awful this behaviour is. 

Anyone who says these things to your face has only contempt for your feelings.

I want you to reverse it. Would you say any of these things to her or would you say other things? 
Would you accept this from anyone else. I suspect not. 

If that is the case then why do you accept this? The answer is that you don't, which is why you are here.

Use the "No" word to her. You will likely see her true colours. 

"Nahh. I don't want to do that." << notice the full stop.

See what happens


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## bandit.45

inging said:


> I think it is a bitter pill to swallow. She cheated and then told you that "it was like our beginnings".
> 
> What she has told you is : She fell in love with him and then was surprised that you loved her so much so the came back.
> She has offers to leave if you can't get over it.
> 
> If i heard this again in my life it would not take one minute to decide that the relationship was over . This is with the benefit of hard earned hindsight. At the time I was like you are now. Like many of us really.
> 
> Your self respect has taken a long vacation and it is not sitting well with you. You are getting continued posts about this because you are so blinded that you can not see how awful this behaviour is.
> 
> Anyone who says these things to your face has only contempt for your feelings.
> 
> I want you to reverse it. Would you say any of these things to her or would you say other things?
> Would you accept this from anyone else. I suspect not.
> 
> If that is the case then why do you accept this? The answer is that you don't, which is why you are here.
> 
> Use the "No" word to her. You will likely see her true colours.
> 
> "Nahh. I don't want to do that." << notice the full stop.
> 
> See what happens



The Great Ing has spoken! So let it be written. So let it be done.


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## SunCMars

She loves herself more than she loves honesty and fidelity.
We do know in the past, that she caved in to her own needs and wants, at the expense of her marriage.

When her name is called, she readily steps forward, not looking left and 'right' to see who really should be taken care of. 
Instinctively, she puts her needs and her ego first.

We call this behavior, as "one who stands in their own light".
This is her essence.

She is not 'ideal' marriage material. 
Back then she was potato peelings.
Now? Is she not now, better?

After the fact, she was intelligent enough to see her own flaws and her own errors of commission.
She violated the norms of behavior and she knew it.

I suppose, she hoped she would not get caught. 

After she got caught, she knew she deserved to be divorced. 

She basically said. "If you cannot forgive me, then you should divorce me, I understand this".

That is your solution. Forgive her or divorce her. 
You ain't gonna change who she is.

Can you forgive her, or can you not forgive yourself for doing this?

Forgiving is not forgetting.

You can (figuratively) whip the living poop out of her and nothing changes. She will be the same person.

This person, your wife....Love her or list her.
Love her and her cold truth, or list her gone, damned and divorced.

I would sit her down and ask her is she would be happier remaining married to you, or would she prefer to end it and divorce.

It is, it remains a joint decision. Yes, at this point, 9 years later.


QN-


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## [email protected]

This has been going on for nine years! He will never get this out of his head!


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## Robert22205

You had a double betrayal....your wife and your best friend.

It's not too late to admit to her that you are struggling with staying married to her. Every spouse has a right to feel safe (from infidelity) and from your posts you don't feel safe (trust her).

Ask her for what you need:

- is it a timeline or more detail
- a polygraph
- her 'why'

Note: "he said all the right things" is just a superficial excuse she used to rationalize cheating. What did those words tap into that allowed her to chose to cheat? For example, if she has low self esteem, then she needs to fix herself (maybe she has) in order for you to feel safe again.


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## OutofRetirement

Avgman said:


> No, that's what she said all a long...just answering the previous post. Her story didn't change, I figured she would have got mad because we were actually having a good night last night...but she answered and told me she would tell me if there was more...


I would never believe her story unless I had proof, like messages between them stating how often, what they did, etc.

I'd put some emphasis on a polygraph, if she was willing to take one, you might get some more truth. It's a long time to remembering a lot of details. It would be easy to remember if it was once or twice, in my opinion, but difficult to remember if they had done a lot and done it frequently. Which I would just assume.

That said, apparently it's all over except the remaining lies, and she has some issues about telling the truth when it makes her look bad, her reputation is important to her, she might not trust you to protect her repuation if she gives you the whole truth, if she tells the truth now it's a double whammy because not only did she do way more than she admitted, but she lied it for so long.

So what are you going to do? Can you continue with the season each year?


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## Marduk

[email protected] said:


> This has been going on for nine years! He will never get this out of his head!


It’s because deep down he knows reconciliation was a bad idea. This is what happens when you try to convince yourself that something is a good idea, when deep down you know it’s the wrong decision.


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## phillybeffandswiss

No, she wasn’t honest. She gave you something that she thought you could live with and you did for 9 years. This explains why it keeps bubbling back up. Did she ever tell you what you said or did rong? Yes, that is the implication you can’t suppress.

You can’t forget because you still don’t know what you were allegedly doing or saying wrong.
Either that or whatever it was made zero sense.


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## VladDracul




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## Malaise

phillybeffandswiss said:


> No, she wasn’t honest. She gave you something that she thought you could live with and you did for 9 years. This explains why it keeps bubbling back up. Did she ever tell you what you said or did rong? Yes, that is the implication you can’t suppress.
> 
> *You can’t forget because you still don’t know what you were allegedly doing or saying wrong.*
> Either that or whatever it was made zero sense.


And who knows if you'll do it again ( according to her )


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## She'sStillGotIt

Looks like the OP hasn't been around for a little while. I'm assuming it's because he's run out of excuses for why he doesn't have the guts to stand up for himself and has continued to let his wife **** on him over and over and over. It's easier to pander to the wife and desperately cling to her like grim death than it is to man up and make the hard decisions that might actually GET him somewhere, I guess.


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## colingrant

She doesn't have any incentive to tell the truth, as she's been able to stay married for 9 years even after committing a double betrayal. What does she have to gain? AVGMAN may be relieved somewhat, but that's about all. She'll take it to her grave. AVGMAN,isn't as committed to knowing the truth, or else he'd take a different action than asking his wife the same question for nine years. 

The exact same thing happened to me and the more I read these stories the happier I am at having made the choice I did. My fiance didn't think I loved her because I hadn't created a wedding date. I asked myself three main questions. 

1) Could I overcome it, meaning I could live peacefully within myself.

My answer ranged from no to I seriously doubt it.

2) Would I see her in the same way and if not is that good enough?

No, No. I loved her out of this world and forgave her, but neither played a role in staying with her. Loving + Forgiving does not = Staying. Trust, respect, and love are the three pillars needed, and my thoughts of my fiance only had one of the three. Not good enough by a long shot.

3) How would I think of myself if I stayed with her.
It would nag me for the remainder of my life, so I believed. 

The 3rd question and answer was a very, very important one for me. Even more so than the first two. But, the tricky thing is how can I or anyone project, 5, 10, 15 years in advance on how you expect to feel.

People change, and it’s possible I would not feel as humiliated as I did at that time, but there was also a chance I would, and that’s where the rubber met the road, and I pretty much made my decision on.

I had to go with my gut, and my gut said, to not incur the risk of possibly being discontented, somewhat bitter, and possibly resentful years down the road. There was a chance that all or one of those feelings would consume me and I was right. 

When it was all said and done, I choose to leave and be with someone who had a clean slate as opposed to tainted one and take my chances with her. Worked out big time. 20 years infidelity free.


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## Nrecnocymton

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Looks like the OP hasn't been around for a little while.


Yet, over four months later there's more advice given. I get it when someone asks if someone is still around, but to resurrect a thread over four months old with no hint of the OP... I don't know.


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## Avgman

Nrecnocymton said:


> She'sStillGotIt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like the OP hasn't been around for a little while.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, over four months later there's more advice given. I get it when someone asks if someone is still around, but to resurrect a thread over four months old with no hint of the OP... I don't know.
Click to expand...

 It's because I made another post yesterday...this one got brought back up.


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