# Struggling with parenthood



## optimalprimus

Hello all. My wife and I have been married for 3 yrs together for 9, and had our first child, a gorgeous little girl, 11 weeks ago.

Apologies for the length of the post and lack of a clear question!

I took 3 weeks paternity leave and things were great - i fed her for the first week or so as my wife wasn't breastfeeding and generally kept on top of everything in the house. My wife is off work for 9 months, and has little attachment to her career.

However, since going back to work things have gradually got more difficult, to the point now where I'm about to tell my employers i need to take a few days leave (i have lots in store) at short notice to look after wife and child.

My job is currently quite stressful, and i typically leave the house at 7 and return at after 7 with travel included. Moving closer to work is not an option. Working from home is an option but not easy at this exact juncture where I'm coordinating a group of individuals to achieve a common goal.

My wife is really struggling. The baby feeds a lot and sleeps little (15 hrs a day - pah!). She is very obviously suffering from sleep deprivation and is quite resistant to ask for real help outside of the two of us. Her family is about an hour away but haven't helped (i feel bad for saying this but are rather useless). My family live several hours away and all work full time. They come down at weekends if i ask but have typically helped us with practical tasks (DIY - my dad is a master and I'm very much learning). My wife can do nothing but nurse the baby and put the occasional load of washing on. I believe her too.

However, the sum total of this is i feel a huge burden and am struggling to keep my head above water. The average weekday I will get back at half 7, immediately bath and change the baby, then prepare our meal which we invariably struggle to eat. Then by the time I've cleared up and done a little bit of washing its half 9 and I'm shattered. I wake with the baby at least twice during the night to change her or walk her to sleep. I can't feed her as she won't take a bottle (we are trying to change this but not working yet) but those things hopefully show my wife she's not on her own. 

But now I've been ill for a week (just a bad and persistant bout of man flu but its debilitating). I'm trying to do well at work as my wife wants to change career at significant expense, but with the demands to help with the baby and clean the house and do DIY projects I'm just drowning in priorities.

I'm taking one positive step today which is to hire a cleaner, but if any of you parents have had similar experiences I'd appreciate hearing them, even if the message is just 'toughen up'!

Thank you

Optimuswolf


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## EleGirl

A new baby can be hard as you are finding out. It seems that no matter how much we plan, everything goes out the window once the baby arrives.

Hiring a cleaner is a very good idea.

See if you can find some very simple meals to make cooking less of a chore. Have you thought about crock pot meals? They really simplify things. If you get a crockpot big enough to cook 2 meals, you can store the rest and have it later in the week. Thus simplifying things.

Another thing that might help is to also find a high school girl who can come in some afternoons after school and just give your wife some support... the girl can watch the baby while your wife takes a bit of a break.

Things will get better. This is just a hard time while the baby is so young. 


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## EleGirl

I just thought of something else... if your wife is having a hard time coping, might she have post partum depression. You might want to get her into a doctor.


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## NobodySpecial

EleGirl said:


> I just thought of something else... if your wife is having a hard time coping, might she have post partum depression. You might want to get her into a doctor.


This is definitely step one. By around 12 weeks, you can also start influencing the baby's sleep schedule.


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## SecondTime'Round

I agree with hiring a house cleaner, even if it's temporary. Takes a huge load off.

So your wife didn't nurse for the first three weeks, but then did after that? How did that work without messing up her supply? Just curious.

Hang in there.....it gets better!


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## Hopeful Cynic

There's a reason they call the first three months of life the "fourth trimester." You will hopefully find that the baby settles into a more reliable routine and sleeps and eats more predictably soon.

The feeling of drowning in priorities is something you could address though. Tackle each one separately and think of how you could address it.

Obviously the baby is priority #1. Right now, your whole lives revolve around that little creature.

Your job, as the sole income, is also pretty high up there. But if you have leave saved up, see if you can use it sparingly instead of all at once and then going back to the current situation. Maybe work shorter days so you are not gone for 12 hours at a stretch. Or take leave only on Wednesdays to break up the week.

Your DIY projects can wait. If there's anything currently underway, finish it, because a half done project is a source of stress, but don't start anything new. There's simply no time in your life. The only exception might be if it directly relates to improving a higher priority, like finishing the baby's nursery. 

House cleaning. Hiring a cleaning service is a great way to address this, if you can spare the funds. You did well there!

Cooking. You can get help here too. Plan simple meals that reheat well and make double sizes so there are some days you can just reheat leftovers when you are exhausted. Buy pre-made dinners. Come home with takeout more often. Just like the cleaning, this is something you can outsource for a while until things are improved.

Wife's career change. Um, can't this wait? Right now, her career is taking care of a newborn, and your money is going towards taking care of a newborn. Maybe that ambition can wait a bit longer, or happen more slowly. Retraining right now sounds like adding extra stress, nothing more.

There are a LOT of websites devoted to parenting, not just one with a sub-forum like this one. I bet you can find lots more ideas.

And yes, don't overlook the idea of your wife suffering post-partum depression. It's a very real thing as her hormones are all over the place.


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## optimalprimus

Thanks for your responses. 

First, clarifications. My wife had a complicated labour an ended up with an assisted delivery. She lost lots of blood but recovered really well - shes healthy and fit. Blood and iron levels fine. But she expressed milk in the first fortnight because of this and then the baby not taking to the breast. I actually loved being able to feed her and its frustrating now that i can't. We will keep trying different bottles etc.

Food isn't too bad as we're mostly having 'healthy' oven-ready meals simple meat and vegetables or soup. But i accept now that its probably best for my wife to eat when she can and not wait until we've done the night routine.

We originally planned that midweek i wouldn't do any night duties, but it became too much for my wife. The baby sleeps much less than the 15 hours i mentioned - more like 8 in mostly 1 hr chunks. I noticed my wife showing signs of the sleep deprivation and i felt and feel i have to help. We're there to support each other.

Thats not to say i don't have frustrations, as she has never done much housework and now the baby is here is totally focussed on her.

I will keep an eye on PPD - i don't think it is that but she has been getting very weepy in the middle of the night when the baby wakes for the nth time.

I should probably isolate and eliminate the additional pressures i mentioned. I need to make clear to her that nonessential DIY is not happening for at least a few months. Thats pressure is originating from her and is not helpful. The career change is more me worrying about the future and accepting that i need to maintain/increase my income to provide for my family. We could hardly survive on my income alone due to a high fixed cost of living.

I shouldn't dismiss the idea of working less, as my employer is in principle v flexible, but it is difficult currently. My best bet may be to use some of my huge european leave entitlement to work 4 day weeks between now and xmas. They actually do shared parental leave in the UK but attitudes are still a bit sexist right now as its new.

Lastly i read lots of other forums but prefer TAM because ultimately our problems are problems for the marriage, and because i value the different perspectives that bloom here (on most topics at least  )


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## optimalprimus

optimalprimus said:


> Thanks for your responses.
> 
> First, clarifications. My wife had a complicated labour an ended up with an assisted delivery. She lost lots of blood but recovered really well - shes healthy and fit. Blood and iron levels fine. But she expressed milk in the first fortnight because of this and then the baby not taking to the breast. I actually loved being able to feed her and its frustrating now that i can't. We will keep trying different bottles etc.
> 
> Food isn't too bad as we're mostly having 'healthy' oven-ready meals simple meat and vegetables or soup. But i accept now that its probably best for my wife to eat when she can and not wait until we've done the night routine.
> 
> We originally planned that midweek i wouldn't do any night duties, but it became too much for my wife. The baby sleeps much less than the 15 hours i mentioned - more like 8 in mostly 1 hr chunks. I noticed my wife showing signs of the sleep deprivation and i felt and feel i have to help. We're there to support each other.
> 
> Thats not to say i don't have frustrations, as she has never done much housework and now the baby is here is totally focussed on her.
> 
> I will keep an eye on PPD - i don't think it is that but she has been getting very weepy in the middle of the night when the baby wakes for the nth time.
> 
> I should probably isolate and eliminate the additional pressures i mentioned. I need to make clear to her that nonessential DIY is not happening for at least a few months. Thats pressure is originating from her and is not helpful. The career change is more me worrying about the future and accepting that i need to maintain/increase my income to provide for my family. We could hardly survive on my income alone due to a high fixed cost of living.
> 
> I shouldn't dismiss the idea of working less, as my employer is in principle v flexible, but it is difficult currently. My best bet may be to use some of my huge european leave entitlement to work 4 day weeks between now and xmas. They actually do shared parental leave in the UK but attitudes are still a bit sexist right now as its new.
> 
> Lastly i read lots of other forums but prefer TAM because ultimately our problems are problems for the marriage, and because i value the different perspectives that bloom here (on most topics at least  )


I can tell I'm struggling though. I've been a lot more 'assertive' at work - not necessarily a bad thing but a noticeable difference. Today a young lad being lairy came up asking for a hug and i just shoved him out the way and told him where to go.

Not my typical behaviour.


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## NobodySpecial

optimalprimus said:


> We originally planned that midweek i wouldn't do any night duties, but it became too much for my wife. The baby sleeps much less than the 15 hours i mentioned - more like 8 in mostly 1 hr chunks.


What do you and/or your wife do when baby wakes? One hour increments screams sleep association to me. How is the baby's mood? Is s/he cranky or colicky? 



> I noticed my wife showing signs of the sleep deprivation and i felt and feel i have to help. We're there to support each other.
> 
> Thats not to say i don't have frustrations, as she has never done much housework and now the baby is here is totally focussed on her.
> 
> I will keep an eye on PPD - i don't think it is that but she has been getting very weepy in the middle of the night when the baby wakes for the nth time.


Ok different people have different opinions on this. Getting up this many times a night is clearly not sustainable. By 3 months, you can start encouraging a more sustainable sleep habit. 

http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639

You can skip all the sections on things like night terrors and the like.

People will often shriek that you are abandoning your child to cry it out. That is not it at all. I really suggest you read the book. It rendered our cranky, weepy, unhappy baby into a well rested, cheerful, happy baby. 

You cannot survive with sleep in single increments. After you read the book, you can determine if any of his problems and associated solutions seem to match your situation.


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## optimalprimus

NobodySpecial said:


> What do you and/or your wife do when baby wakes? One hour increments screams sleep association to me. How is the baby's mood? Is s/he cranky or colicky?
> 
> 
> 
> Ok different people have different opinions on this. Getting up this many times a night is clearly not sustainable. By 3 months, you can start encouraging a more sustainable sleep habit.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Solve-Your-Childs-Sleep-Problems/dp/0743201639
> 
> You can skip all the sections on things like night terrors and the like.
> 
> People will often shriek that you are abandoning your child to cry it out. That is not it at all. I really suggest you read the book. It rendered our cranky, weepy, unhappy baby into a well rested, cheerful, happy baby.
> 
> You cannot survive with sleep in single increments. After you read the book, you can determine if any of his problems and associated solutions seem to match your situation.


Not cranky particularly, but loudly awake making sucking motions and thrashing around in her crib.

She hasnt fed much today apparently - maybe she's 'reverse cycling'?

My wife is keen to try having the baby in bed with us with a fancy thing to protect her. I'm not against that idea but also an worried about us sleeping in a small double bed with a baby. I will most likely fall out several times a night!


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## NobodySpecial

optimalprimus said:


> Not cranky particularly, but loudly awake making sucking motions and thrashing around in her crib.


PLEASE tell me you don't get her out of her crib at night unless she is actively crying!?! If you are. Stop.



> She hasnt fed much today apparently - maybe she's 'reverse cycling'?


A consistent sleep issue is not a feeding issue. 



> My wife is keen to try having the baby in bed with us with a fancy thing to protect her. I'm not against that idea but also an worried about us sleeping in a small double bed with a baby. I will most likely fall out several times a night!


I recommend you borrow the book from the library and read it. Babies really don't /shouldn't need attention once an hour.


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## optimalprimus

NobodySpecial said:


> PLEASE tell me you don't get her out of her crib at night unless she is actively crying!?! If you are. Stop.
> 
> 
> A consistent sleep issue is not a feeding issue.
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend you borrow the book from the library and read it. Babies really don't /shouldn't need attention once an hour.


Thanks. Whilst we do sometimes get her out to feed before she cries, I'm fairly sure that she's about to cry. Shes not lying there serenely awake for sure. Will test tonight(if wife agrees) and update.

Thanks for the other pointers will look into them at the weekend.


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## NobodySpecial

optimalprimus said:


> Thanks. Whilst we do sometimes get her out to feed before she cries, I'm fairly sure that she's about to cry. Shes not lying there serenely awake for sure. Will test tonight(if wife agrees) and update.
> 
> Thanks for the other pointers will look into them at the weekend.


Try to give her a chance to go back to sleep. 11 week old babies don't need to eat every hour unless breastfeeding was just reestablished. I mean check your own situation with your pediatrician, of course.


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## NobodySpecial

Oh hey. One other thing I would like to suggest at the risk of being pushy. Parenting is a very personal thing. I don't want to overstep. Don't assume that this will pass. Be thoughtful and smart as you clearly are being. But recognize that being the parent starts today. It is not something you get to worry about in 5 years. That came off as harsh. Not intended, but not sure how else to say it. But you have a sleep problem TODAY. And kids tend to grow into established habits, not out of them, over time.

Solving this for your wife and solving this for you will also be a GREAT benefit to your baby. 

And congratulations on your new baby! Keep us posted. And very good luck to you.


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## kag123

I'm going to take an opposite approach with you asking for advice on this issue:

Every.one. has an opinion on what's right and wrong for the baby. 

You will need to close yourself off somewhat from all of the (sometimes conflicting) advice and figure out on your own as husband and wife what works for YOUR CHILD. 

The only person I would recommend letting be your trusted advisor are the pediatrician and any hospital resources she may have available to her such as a lactation consultant or new mom's counseling. (Many labor and delivery units offer these services to post partum mom's.)

We had a very difficult first born. Very very difficult. He was an unhappy baby and screamed through most of the first 3 months. It was bad. We lost our minds in that time. Without a doubt that was the most difficult 6 months or so of my marriage so far.

It turned out he had severe reflux. But even the treatments for it worked very little. It did not get better until he was old enough to start spending most of his time sitting up. So....5 months old maybe? I know you don't want to hear that. 

And the truth is that every kid is different. Some are just fussier than others. Even without a medical reason. They all have their own personalities. 

By all means take in as much education as you can, but draw a line in the sand and don't let it overwhelm you. 

You are not alone suffering this way. Your wife is not alone. If you are gone that much she probably feels that way though. It's not your fault and you need to work. Don't take it personally. 

Some simple things that can make her feel better. They probably sound ridiculous but when you have this kind of situation you really need to go back to the basics. 

- Get out of the house with the baby. Take walks outside with the baby in the stroller. The motion calms them and fresh air can help your wife's mood. It's also easy to get depressed when you are cooped up in the house the whole time. If the weather is not good she can take the baby to a local mall to walk (bonus is there are easy places to change diapers when needed).

- You said you lack a support system. You're probably not going to find a sitter for that young of an age that you feel comfortable with but she should at least attend some new mom's groups with the baby. If for no other reason than to listen and realize she's not alone. Although there will always be those mom's whose babies are perfect angels and never have an issue LOL. 

- If there is trouble with nursing (even transitioning to bottle) a lactation consultant can be a HUGE help. Set her up with an appointment. They are also very calming in my experience.

- The baby picks up on the mood of the house. I know that sounds nuts. The baby has some kind of internal barometer and I learned early on that if I was frustrated and stressed it would amp the baby up. She needs to find a way to calm herself and find her zen when dealing with the baby fussing. Soothing music, switching off when she's at her limit or you at yours, watching a TV show to zone out a bit...it all helps. 

Good luck. It does get better with time.


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## NobodySpecial

kag123 said:


> You will need to close yourself off somewhat from all of the (sometimes conflicting) advice and figure out on your own as husband and wife what works for YOUR CHILD.


I am going to go out there and agree... with an amendment. Filter the advice you get through your reason. Through your intelligence. And through both your understanding and your bond with your child.



> The only person I would recommend letting be your trusted advisor are the pediatrician and any hospital resources she may have available to her such as a lactation consultant or new mom's counseling. (Many labor and delivery units offer these services to post partum mom's.)


I cannot disagree that the pediatrician as the first and best go to guy/gal, especially if you have a good trust. (If you don't, get a new one!)




> We had a very difficult first born. Very very difficult. He was an unhappy baby and screamed through most of the first 3 months. It was bad. We lost our minds in that time. Without a doubt that was the most difficult 6 months or so of my marriage so far.
> 
> It turned out he had severe reflux.


And this highlights why you have to think and apply what you know about your child to the root cause and not jump to a solution. I agree with this poster. IF your child has a sleep association issue OR is habituated to a schedule that is not ideal for you, the book I posted will be of use. It will also help you, in conjunction with your pediatrician, will help you identify.

IF your child has other root causes, then you need to identify the root cause. One thing I can guarantee you. If it was normal for babies to wake every hour, the human race would not have survived.


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## optimalprimus

Thanks guys. I do understand all the petspectives given and wanted them to be varied precisely so i could apply my own filter based on knowledge not possible to share on a forum thread.

Last night i raised the idea of only getting the baby up at night (8-8) if she was crying. Wife said that was what we were already doing but i know it isn't quite the case. So we agreed subject to changing her if shed dirtied her nappy.

The night actually went much better, with baby sleeping from 8.30-12, 12.30-3, 3.30-6.

But my wife didn't stick to the rules. At 3.30 she asked me to change her nappy despite it not being dirtied (it was heavy but w/ these modern nappies the baby doesn't seem to care.) and at 6 she was thrashing around after a feed and my wife wanted me to walk around with her. I said no we should let her settle herself and see if she cries or gets herself to sleep. Lots of expletives etc followed but i stood my ground and swapped sides of the bed so i could put my hand on baby and easily get her up if she did cry. After ten minutes of movement she went to sleep for another hour and a half.

Today i am working from home so can help (a little) more. Ive suggested we see someone about the problems taking a bottle and also my wife to see a GP about her not being able to sleep herself. In UK so no paed at the end of a phone (not complaining - the us health system is bonkers).

We do go out lots at the weekend, and everyone walks here so lots of fresh air. My wife does have a support group of friends - its more the practical help looking after the baby or doing some cooking, chores etc that we lack.

Now i need to get this work done and beat this flu!


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## kag123

I can tell you one thing. I am a naturally anxious person who has trouble sleeping. 

Having a baby made it so much worse. Part of it was probably hormones and part of it is just the fact that I was completely unable to tune the baby out. It's like going to sleep next to a ticking time bomb, feeling that they could wake up at any moment. Any little noise and I would shoot up awake on high alert and then be so full of adrenaline I couldn't sleep. It's probably a mother's instinct too. But after weeks and months of sleep deprivation (some of it caused by own issues outlined here...no fault of the baby) I was out of my mind.


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## optimalprimus

Thanks kag my wife did not sleep much last night even though the baby was much better. So today she has been off with me, getting angry because I'm working, even though she knew that I'm wfh today and am v busy. And even though i took several hours out of the day to look after the baby and now have to catch up in the evening.


But she's not normally like this - its the sleep deprivation that's causing it I'm sure.


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## optimalprimus

Quick update - took the day off yesterday and we had a lovely family excursion. Wife is more relaxed and the baby has actually been in what suspiciously looks like a routine the last 3 nights.

Bath and big feed 7-8
8-1 sleep (5hrs!)
1:30-3:30 sleep
3:45-6.30 sleep

Wife actually slept last night too which was a great help.

I can't take days off or wfh every week though, so we need to get her mom to come help more.


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## Omego

optimalprimus said:


> My wife is keen to try having the baby in bed with us with a fancy thing to protect her. I'm not against that idea but also an worried about us sleeping in a small double bed with a baby. I will most likely fall out several times a night!


DO THIS ^^^^^^. This is what I did, several times. I need my sleep. I could not get up multiple times per night with any of my children. You will not roll over on the baby and you will not fall out of the bed. I cannot emphasize this enough. Sleeping with the baby was the only way I survived. Sleep is essential. Don't bother with the sleep training stuff -- I know this is an unpopular opinion but it worked for me.


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## Omego

optimalprimus said:


> Thanks kag my wife did not sleep much last night even though the baby was much better. So today she has been off with me, getting angry because I'm working, even though she knew that I'm wfh today and am v busy. And even though i took several hours out of the day to look after the baby and now have to catch up in the evening.
> 
> 
> But she's not normally like this - its the sleep deprivation that's causing it I'm sure.


I may have missed some parts of the thread, but it seems as though your job is important for the family in terms of income and that you are on a career path in order to earn more and provide for the family. Therefore, your W should not be angry because you are working. 
Maybe it would be helpful to define roles/tasks. Perhaps you could discuss this together. If you W is home all day and has to take care of the baby, perhaps she could also do the other chores such as cleaning/cooking and then rely on you when you get home to put the baby to bed, for example or to pick up groceries on your way home. If the allocation of tasks is agreed upon ahead of time BY BOTH, there'll be less conflict and disappointment, on both sides.


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## Cecezakat

Why is your baby thrashing? Do you swaddle her in her bed? Babies have startle reflexes that cause them to move and wake themselves up. A good swaddle technique keeps their legs and arms close to their sides so they can remain asleep.

And babies have a strong need to suck at this age and need a pacifier to soothe that urge. Take the pacifier away when then are a few months older but dont worry about giving it to her right now. 

Encourage the baby to eat more during day hours by waking her up from naps to feed. This will help fill her up so she starts sleeping for longer stretches at night. 

You are very right to not pick up the baby unless she cries. That alone can make her fussy. For this reason some recommend you dont sleep in the same room so you dont notice all the little noises and movements they make which dont warrant being picked up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## optimalprimus

Hi all - another good night with the same routine. Baby is v fussy this morning but easier to deal with after we've both slept well.

Our health advice is to havebu the baby in the room with us until 6 months and tbh we're not going to deviate from that. She hated swaddling and is a bit old to start again now - shes in a sleeping bag.

My wife is dead set against dummies too - I'm not so much pro or against but no babies in her family have had them and the MIL would argue they aren't a good idea. The rough agreement we reached was that we would consider it if the baby was colicky but she isn't.

Intheory - luckily my commute is by train/foot - i could try to get 30 mins more sleep on the train leg but its v v busy and imv a bit antisocial to fall asleep.

Anyhow its going well - just worried that this has coincided with 4 days of me being at home. Tomorrow 6 am i am back at work

And omega - we have had these conversations but my wife doesn't feel able to do more of the housework right now - hence we're hiring a cleaner. I do have some frustration about this because she's never really taken on responsibility for keeping the home nice even when she wasn't pregnant and was working 15-20 fewer hours per week than I. However the baby is quite full on and it is her first so cleaner it is.

Thanks all.


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## AliceA

When I was struggling with a new baby I read a book called, "Save Our Sleep". I didn't follow it to the letter, but wow did it explain some of what was happening. It helped me deal with everything so much better.

As for trying to get your baby to take the bottle, personally I wouldn't try too much. I've talked to women who said they couldn't get the baby to continue breast feeding after introducing the bottle. If you both want to have your child remain on breast milk, the best thing is to stay committed to it.

I also got in a cleaner for a bit when bubs was little. It helps but if you are struggling financially you should probably be clear with your wife if this cannot be a permanent arrangement.


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## optimalprimus

Thanks breeze i'll look up that book. Things have been going well but now my MIL is staying and I've noticed my wife getting more worried about things. Apparently we have a draft in our bedroom that is causing the baby's eyes to water and she wants me to block all gaps in the door. There is no draft and i have no idea how to block the whole doorframe off! Things were fine when i was at home but now its getting stressful again.


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## ExiledBayStater

optimalprimus said:


> Thanks breeze i'll look up that book. Things have been going well but now my MIL is staying and I've noticed my wife getting more worried about things. Apparently we have a draft in our bedroom that is causing the baby's eyes to water and she wants me to block all gaps in the door. There is no draft and i have no idea how to block the whole doorframe off! Things were fine when i was at home but now its getting stressful again.


Wait a minute. Is this an interior door she wants you to block off? How is your home heated? I ask because in my house (forced hot air) the last thing anyone should do is seal an interior door. 

It sounds to me like kind of an autocratic arrangement with your wife at the helm. I hope I'm just reading it wrong.


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## optimalprimus

Hi Exile i think it is coming across a little wrong. I typically lead in most areas of our life, but sometimes, instead of her taking on some of that leadership (it would be welcomed), she just decides i need to do something or creates a problem for me to sort out.

I had planned to meet some old friends last night for dinner. Not something i want to do often as I miss wife and baby and the first late night back since she was born.

Wife wanted me to cancel at last minute (or more accurately, said 'i can't tell you if you should still go' - errr but by saying that you really are!).

I refused and got back late - she seemed fine about it in the end, and she has her mom staying right now. The blasted bedroom door (internal and house heated by radiator) has had its hinge sealed with some masking tape. I have no idea if this is sensible or not but it makes a noise everytime it is opened...

Just looking forward to getting home tonight and having bath time with the little one.

Baby still sleeping well


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## ExiledBayStater

Good news, all of it. Keep pressing on!


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## turnera

Did your wife ever get any 'training' on how to raise a baby, like from your church or the hospital or a book or some videos? She doesn't seem to be very educated on how they should be taken care of. And she doesn't seem very driven to push through on hard things, like getting the hang of breast feeding.


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## optimalprimus

turnera said:


> Did your wife ever get any 'training' on how to raise a baby, like from your church or the hospital or a book or some videos? She doesn't seem to be very educated on how they should be taken care of. And she doesn't seem very driven to push through on hard things, like getting the hang of breast feeding.


No church - we're not religious - but we had training from a national organisation. Not sure where the idea came from that she's uneducated about caring for the child. If anything she's suffering from internet age overeducation combined with a natural predeliction for caution and the influence of her mom. She's doing a great job for the baby but that is literally all she can cope with right now.

And i thought i was clear that she pushed v hard to breastfeed - and that the new problem is that the baby will ONLY breastfeed - ramping up the pressure on mom.

This week has been okay although I don't particularly enjoy my MIL staying over. She kinda takes over as she has always been home matriarch to her children and my wife is very passive around her. I do confess that it annoys me as it is supposed to be our home we are building our way. But the benefit is that she is less anxious with someone around.

Now the SIL and niece are descending for the weekend. Deep breath.

And my wife has to have an operation next week which she is worried about. It should be routine but she's v anxious. I'll take a few days off work to look after her and baby.


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## turnera

Sorry, I misunderstood what you wrote about feeding, as you were talking about bottles. Does she have a breast pump? I ask about the education because nearly all sources will tell you to let the baby stay lying down and not pick them up all the time, so as to teach them to fall asleep on their own, and it seemed like you had to teach her to do that.


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## optimalprimus

turnera said:


> Sorry, I misunderstood what you wrote about feeding, as you were talking about bottles. Does she have a breast pump? I ask about the education because nearly all sources will tell you to let the baby stay lying down and not pick them up all the time, so as to teach them to fall asleep on their own, and it seemed like you had to teach her to do that.


Thanks turnera. Yes expressing is fine but the baby cannot seem to suck from a bottle. She's bought a number of other devices(!) today that are alternatives as we have 3 days to get her to be able to feed in an alternative way or its cups and syringes while my wife is recovering from the GA.

I honestly couldn't find any clear advice on what to do when a sub 3 month baby is thrashing around (loudly) for big chunks of the night. As it happens she has improved lots in the last week or so, but little idea why.

She was a little quick to pick her up on occasion though yes. Its hard to leave her lying there thrashing around when you just want her to sleep.

Anyhow i will keep updating from time to time as the journey continues! My wife actually did some housework today, which she v much enjoyed teasing me about via FB messenger...


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## Nomorebeans

I think it's unfortunate that society - especially other women - put so much pressure on women to breastfeed successfully.

I succumbed to that pressure 13 years ago, and tried mightily to get my baby son to latch on - worked with nurses and specialists at the hospital to do it, and La Leche League. He was six weeks early and weighed only five pounds at birth - hard to believe now when at 13 he's six feet tall and still actively growing. But they all pushed hard for me to keep trying at every feeding, while also pumping as a backup and to keep my production going.

As a result, I ended up pumping around the clock. He fed every 1 1/2 to 2 hours at first. We used the tiny bottles and nipples they had used at the hospital NICU while he was there and let us take home. He wouldn't take to any other bottles but those for the first six weeks.

At six weeks, I was utterly exhausted. He was still not latching on. At eight weeks, I was diagnosed with PPD and double mastitis from all the pumping. So all that had to come to an end. I had been supplementing with some formula all along, but when I went full formula, he had terrible colitis (gas he couldn't pass).

Ultimately went to Lactose-Free formula, and he was like a whole new baby. Everything resolved, he slept for six or more hours at a time, and he was a very happy baby from then on.

If I had it to do again, I'd have never tried to nurse and started him on Lactose-Free formula.

I have no patience for people who push breastfeeding on others. We all know it's best for the baby, but some of us can't or don't wish to do it. Leave other women alone and mind your own GD business.

Sorry to get on the soapbox, but I know so many other women who were pressured heavily and struggled mightily, and who beat themselves up like I did for "failing." Shame on the high and mighty who could do it and lord it over the rest of us (I know not every successful breastfeeder does that, but I've known more than a few who have), and shame on those who haven't even tried it themselves and still do.


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## Hopeful Cynic

optimalprimus said:


> I honestly couldn't find any clear advice on what to do when a sub 3 month baby is thrashing around (loudly) for big chunks of the night. As it happens she has improved lots in the last week or so, but little idea why.


Honestly, you must not have tried very hard, or been very sleep deprived when you did.

The answer is swaddling. Newborns are very used to being all scrunched up in the womb, and have very little motor control over their limbs yet. So wrapping them up all tight like a little mummy helps them keep from waking themselves up when those arms and legs flail around. It will take some practice to master, and you'll never be as good as maternity ward nurse, but give it a try.


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## optimalprimus

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Honestly, you must not have tried very hard, or been very sleep deprived when you did.
> 
> The answer is swaddling. Newborns are very used to being all scrunched up in the womb, and have very little motor control over their limbs yet. So wrapping them up all tight like a little mummy helps them keep from waking themselves up when those arms and legs flail around. It will take some practice to master, and you'll never be as good as maternity ward nurse, but give it a try.


You mean like this advice, which recommends stopping swaddling at 1 month.

http://www.babycentre.co.uk/x7660/what-are-the-dos-and-donts-of-swaddling

Thanks for the advice but we won't be restarting swaddling now at 3 months. That us definitely not recommended.


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## optimalprimus

Nomorebeans said:


> I think it's unfortunate that society - especially other women - put so much pressure on women to breastfeed successfully.
> 
> I succumbed to that pressure 13 years ago, and tried mightily to get my baby son to latch on - worked with nurses and specialists at the hospital to do it, and La Leche League. He was six weeks early and weighed only five pounds at birth - hard to believe now when at 13 he's six feet tall and still actively growing. But they all pushed hard for me to keep trying at every feeding, while also pumping as a backup and to keep my production going.
> 
> As a result, I ended up pumping around the clock. He fed every 1 1/2 to 2 hours at first. We used the tiny bottles and nipples they had used at the hospital NICU while he was there and let us take home. He wouldn't take to any other bottles but those for the first six weeks.
> 
> At six weeks, I was utterly exhausted. He was still not latching on. At eight weeks, I was diagnosed with PPD and double mastitis from all the pumping. So all that had to come to an end. I had been supplementing with some formula all along, but when I went full formula, he had terrible colitis (gas he couldn't pass).
> 
> Ultimately went to Lactose-Free formula, and he was like a whole new baby. Everything resolved, he slept for six or more hours at a time, and he was a very happy baby from then on.
> 
> If I had it to do again, I'd have never tried to nurse and started him on Lactose-Free formula.
> 
> I have no patience for people who push breastfeeding on others. We all know it's best for the baby, but some of us can't or don't wish to do it. Leave other women alone and mind your own GD business.
> 
> Sorry to get on the soapbox, but I know so many other women who were pressured heavily and struggled mightily, and who beat themselves up like I did for "failing." Shame on the high and mighty who could do it and lord it over the rest of us (I know not every successful breastfeeder does that, but I've known more than a few who have), and shame on those who haven't even tried it themselves and still do.


Hi nomorebeans.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. In my country there is quite a lot of pressure too. After a week my wife broke down thinking she was a failure and we were all set to continue with bottles. But after a few days she wanted to try again and we had a breakthrough.

There are definitely pros and cons of breastfeeding and it tends to bring out strong views.

I know that i want my wife to feel good about being a mom regardless of how the baby gets its milk.


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## jc0187

optimalprimus said:


> Hello all. My wife and I have been married for 3 yrs together for 9, and had our first child, a gorgeous little girl, 11 weeks ago.
> 
> Apologies for the length of the post and lack of a clear question!
> 
> I took 3 weeks paternity leave and things were great - i fed her for the first week or so as my wife wasn't breastfeeding and generally kept on top of everything in the house. My wife is off work for 9 months, and has little attachment to her career.
> 
> However, since going back to work things have gradually got more difficult, to the point now where I'm about to tell my employers i need to take a few days leave (i have lots in store) at short notice to look after wife and child.
> 
> My job is currently quite stressful, and i typically leave the house at 7 and return at after 7 with travel included. Moving closer to work is not an option. Working from home is an option but not easy at this exact juncture where I'm coordinating a group of individuals to achieve a common goal.
> 
> My wife is really struggling. The baby feeds a lot and sleeps little (15 hrs a day - pah!). She is very obviously suffering from sleep deprivation and is quite resistant to ask for real help outside of the two of us. Her family is about an hour away but haven't helped (i feel bad for saying this but are rather useless). My family live several hours away and all work full time. They come down at weekends if i ask but have typically helped us with practical tasks (DIY - my dad is a master and I'm very much learning). My wife can do nothing but nurse the baby and put the occasional load of washing on. I believe her too.
> 
> However, the sum total of this is i feel a huge burden and am struggling to keep my head above water. The average weekday I will get back at half 7, immediately bath and change the baby, then prepare our meal which we invariably struggle to eat. Then by the time I've cleared up and done a little bit of washing its half 9 and I'm shattered. I wake with the baby at least twice during the night to change her or walk her to sleep. I can't feed her as she won't take a bottle (we are trying to change this but not working yet) but those things hopefully show my wife she's not on her own.
> 
> But now I've been ill for a week (just a bad and persistant bout of man flu but its debilitating). I'm trying to do well at work as my wife wants to change career at significant expense, but with the demands to help with the baby and clean the house and do DIY projects I'm just drowning in priorities.
> 
> I'm taking one positive step today which is to hire a cleaner, but if any of you parents have had similar experiences I'd appreciate hearing them, even if the message is just 'toughen up'!
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Optimuswolf


Hello. Im currently in your shoes. Well, maybe not as dire, but I FEEL YOUR PAIN!! My baby was born late July. It was a struggle. Still is. The baby hates the bottle and would much rather be breastfeeding. Don't listen to the people saying babies sleep all day. I call BS on that! My 3 month old sleeps a few minutes every 5 or so hours! It gets tough!! You start missing the things you once enjoy doing freely. Like watch a tv show, take a nap, even bathroom visits! Holy smokes!!

The simple things like cooking dinner or doing stupid household chores seems like insurmountable tasks that can take hours! Last night, we watched a 80 minute movie that literally took us half the day to watch! Half the day!! And that's just a simple movie. 

It's especially difficult when there is little to no help from the outside. I'm there now. My fiancé and I haven't had a date night in over two months. Doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon. However, the sooner you realize this reality, the better. No one can talk you into understanding. You have to experience this first hand. And you will. 

I mourned the death of our freedom. It was hard. But then you think about how you had all that time before the baby, to experience the beauty life has to offer, and you then realize that life isn't over! It's just begun. I realized that I have my daughter. Here, now. And with her, I can bring along to explore what else the world has to offer. 

I'm sorry I don't have advice for you. Just stick with it! My fiancé suffered post partum depression. It was bad! But things eased up. She was getting better and it is now gone. Don't ignore this. Postpartum depression is real and can get severe! Be there for her and keep an eye on your health as well. PM me if you have questions.


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## optimalprimus

jc0187 said:


> Hello. Im currently in your shoes. Well, maybe not as dire, but I FEEL YOUR PAIN!! My baby was born late July. It was a struggle. Still is. The baby hates the bottle and would much rather be breastfeeding. Don't listen to the people saying babies sleep all day. I call BS on that! My 3 month old sleeps a few minutes every 5 or so hours! It gets tough!! You start missing the things you once enjoy doing freely. Like watch a tv show, take a nap, even bathroom visits! Holy smokes!!
> 
> The simple things like cooking dinner or doing stupid household chores seems like insurmountable tasks that can take hours! Last night, we watched a 80 minute movie that literally took us half the day to watch! Half the day!! And that's just a simple movie.
> 
> It's especially difficult when there is little to no help from the outside. I'm there now. My fiancé and I haven't had a date night in over two months. Doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon. However, the sooner you realize this reality, the better. No one can talk you into understanding. You have to experience this first hand. And you will.
> 
> I mourned the death of our freedom. It was hard. But then you think about how you had all that time before the baby, to experience the beauty life has to offer, and you then realize that life isn't over! It's just begun. I realized that I have my daughter. Here, now. And with her, I can bring along to explore what else the world has to offer.
> 
> I'm sorry I don't have advice for you. Just stick with it! My fiancé suffered post partum depression. It was bad! But things eased up. She was getting better and it is now gone. Don't ignore this. Postpartum depression is real and can get severe! Be there for her and keep an eye on your health as well. PM me if you have questions.


Thank you jc, and especially for sharing your experience - it helps honest! Our babies are almost of an age. Things have got a LOT better since i originally posted, although i am feeling all of the grief you talk about for the life that was....after 15ish years of relative adult freedom it is a big change. 

Totally worth it though. Hope it goes well and your fiance keeps improving. My wife has some history with mild depression and i was worried about PPD but doesn't seem to be an issue.


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## Cecezakat

optimalprimus said:


> You mean like this advice, which recommends stopping swaddling at 1 month.
> 
> What are the dos and don'ts of swaddling? - BabyCentre
> 
> Thanks for the advice but we won't be restarting swaddling now at 3 months. That us definitely not recommended.


https://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/how-when-to-stop-swaddling-baby/

"Newborns are born with a startle reflex, called the Moro reflex, and most babies don’t outgrow it until 4 or 5 months of age. So be careful about stopping the swaddle too early; if your baby’s Moro reflex is still strong, she may startle herself awake at night and during naps."

One website says its not recommended. Sounds like she had a strong reflex and needed more swaddling. Now she is naturally settling down. Its good to research different opinions and take in account what you think is best for your baby. They are called recommendations for a reason.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## optimalprimus

Cecezakat said:


> https://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/how-when-to-stop-swaddling-baby/
> 
> "Newborns are born with a startle reflex, called the Moro reflex, and most babies don’t outgrow it until 4 or 5 months of age. So be careful about stopping the swaddle too early; if your baby’s Moro reflex is still strong, she may startle herself awake at night and during naps."
> 
> One website says its not recommended. Sounds like she had a strong reflex and needed more swaddling. Now she is naturally settling down. Its good to research different opinions and take in account what you think is best for your baby. They are called recommendations for a reason.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Thanks. That (taking recommendations from all reputable sources and making our own judgments, as a couple), is exactly what we're doing. And that includes helpful advice from TAM.

I don't think it is helpful to get fixated on any one aspect, especially when the professional advice we have received is mixed.

If there is one thing i have learnt from parenthood so far is that there is little that is 'obvious' apart from providing warmth, shelter, food, and love for your newborn.


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## jld

Omego said:


> DO THIS ^^^^^^. This is what I did, several times. I need my sleep. I could not get up multiple times per night with any of my children. You will not roll over on the baby and you will not fall out of the bed. I cannot emphasize this enough. Sleeping with the baby was the only way I survived. Sleep is essential. Don't bother with the sleep training stuff -- I know this is an unpopular opinion but it worked for me.


This was us, too. We have five children, and the first baby was the hardest. She fed every hour! My sleep improved greatly once the baby came into our bed . . . but it took us the first month to learn that.

OP, you are right to consider a variety of opinions and make your own decision, whatever it is. That is the value of a forum.

And so glad your wife has been breastfeeding. I used to belong to the La Leche League, and I will always be grateful for what I learned there. Some top notch mothers in that organization.


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## jc0187

Cecezakat said:


> https://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/how-when-to-stop-swaddling-baby/
> 
> "Newborns are born with a startle reflex, called the Moro reflex, and most babies don’t outgrow it until 4 or 5 months of age. So be careful about stopping the swaddle too early; if your baby’s Moro reflex is still strong, she may startle herself awake at night and during naps."
> 
> One website says its not recommended. Sounds like she had a strong reflex and needed more swaddling. Now she is naturally settling down. Its good to research different opinions and take in account what you think is best for your baby. They are called recommendations for a reason.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yea, my LO still gets swaddled. She's nearly 3.5 months old. But I'll tell you this. The swaddling STILL HELPS! Ha-ha. Don't know how we would survive without it.


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## Hopeful Cynic

optimalprimus said:


> If there is one thing i have learnt from parenthood so far is that there is little that is 'obvious' apart from providing warmth, shelter, food, and love for your newborn.


No kidding! The single most important thing you can do in your whole life, be responsible for another, helpless, life, and they don't even give you instructions, a class, a manual or anything!

It takes a village to raise a child. Once, we had extended families close by; older siblings helped with the younger children, parents were there to help, first time parents had their own siblings to help. There was always someone around who knew what they were doing, who could help out. Now, we parent in isolation.


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## jc0187

Hopeful Cynic said:


> optimalprimus said:
> 
> 
> 
> If there is one thing i have learnt from parenthood so far is that there is little that is 'obvious' apart from providing warmth, shelter, food, and love for your newborn.
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a village to raise a child. Once, we had extended families close by; older siblings helped with the younger children, parents were there to help, first time parents had their own siblings to help. There was always someone around who knew what they were doing, who could help out. Now, we parent in isolation.
Click to expand...

Yup. We too parent in isolation. When my brother and I were babies, my parents had my grandmother staying with us. She played a rather large role in raising us. My parents got breaks of all kinds because they had a live-in babysitter. 

We are a village. We will do this on our own because there is no other way to do it.


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