# Men and depression



## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

My H (53 yrs) started a new business under a year ago. It has been a struggle with staffing, approval of products, etc. He told me recently that he checked out midway through last year, (4 months into the business) because things were so difficult. I wondered why he would leave the house late and arrive home occasionally before me. 

He said he didn't work at all, just coasted so things were going belly up. We went on a holiday in Dec (i paid for it) , he never mentioned it. Hid it all.
Then he decides to pick himself up and work hard from this year. He is in the office by 7am, clearing mails so he can clear the day for client meetings etc. He comes home late 8-9pm. Things are moving but it is a slow uphill struggle.

i know he drinks but not in front of me, when he goes overseas (for work). I am not sure what else he does as our marriage is basically in cold storage (for me too). 

He was a corporate person, previously lots of staff under him, the whole corporate machinery at his disposal. A new business is very different as he has to be the "jack of all trades." 

He says he is depressed (but will not go to the doctor) as there are no break through in the business. 
I cannot help him because he has built his whole sense of self in his work (not in family, marriage nor me). His ego is really fragile. If this fails I am not sure what will happen (on so many levels).

I think I should try and be supportive but honestly do not know how to be, I would rather just stay out of his way. He is not loud or angry, just gloomy, sits in the dark outside smoking his cigars. 

He doesn't care about me or the marriage, just says he hasn't left (lucky me) and I'm the one who moved out of our bedroom ( I did 6 weeks ago due to his lying to my face about his drinking, I told him I cannot be intimate with an active alcoholic). He hasn't been drunk in front of me but I know he drinks when he is away.

He says he cannot afford to have a full emotional meltdown so he has to leave the marriage aside. Meanwhile I have to go on as before (nothing new here). 

Do you guys (men) have any suggestions as to what I should do. Should I just let him be? I cannot afford for the business to fail, my financial future is wrapped up in it as well.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

Sounds like what I have been through. I have realized the emotional roller coaster is hard enough for a guy to take, but realizing his partner will eventually get off sucks worse. Just speaking from my own experiences, all I wanted was a partner that could sink her teeth into some part of the business that needs help and DO IT! For me there was nothing worse than to feel completely mentally exhausted fighting things with work, only to get ***** slapped (not physically) when getting home because I am late, or whatever. 

As far as the booze, I am a drinker and would not be with anyone that did not accept that. He sounds like he closet drinks to hide it from you, which is not good. Not sure if this is his MO or something new for him but sounds like one more thing to hide. 

I will say sitting on the sidelines and just criticizing is going to make it worse, trust me. 

I have learned in life that many men apparently hide things from their partner, including ME! The reason was because the way the partner reacted. It does NOT mean we intend to be deceitful, we are trying to keep things civil. The phrase "truth, you can't handle the truth" comes to mind!! 

Get your hands dirty (not even saying you aren't!) and at least for me, it would be a mood booster, motivator, and stress reliever to an extent. However, I know some men do NOT want to work with their partner so take it for what its worth to you.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Well, not having sex with him certainly won't help anything. I understand your position, and don't particularly like your husband based on your description. But withholding sex is just going to stress him further, and create temptations elsewhere.

Why do you say he doesn't care about you?


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Girl ..... you know you been working on that long term plan. Just up the date and be done with it already !!!!


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

bobsmith said:


> Sounds like what I have been through. I have realized the emotional roller coaster is hard enough for a guy to take, but realizing his partner will eventually get off sucks worse. Just speaking from my own experiences, all I wanted was a partner that could sink her teeth into some part of the business that needs help and DO IT! For me there was nothing worse than to feel completely mentally exhausted fighting things with work, only to get ***** slapped (not physically) when getting home because I am late, or whatever.
> 
> As far as the booze, I am a drinker and would not be with anyone that did not accept that. He sounds like he closet drinks to hide it from you, which is not good. Not sure if this is his MO or something new for him but sounds like one more thing to hide.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the frankness Bob but you don't know 'our story.' My H is an alcoholic, been on and off at AA but it never stuck, he thinks he can handle it so I let it be. I have endured all that comes with that, the anger, the not coming home, cheating (one I know off), emotional abuse, etc. 

I work full time (elsewhere) and help with expenses as much as I can, though my income is one third of his. I was a stay at home mum and trailing spouse for his career (giving up my own), went back to get a doctorate and went back into the work force at a late age so I believe I am getting my hands dirty big time and sinking my teeth into my job, working weekends, etc to get ahead, (all of his friends and colleagues wives do not work). 

I have held the family together through all of his shenanigans. Even when I went into depression 7 years ago he just partied and drank also with his big corporate job, and I had to just pull myself out of it and get on with things. He was there for a little and then couldn't handle it and abandoned me to all intents and purposes. 
With regard to hiding things, he has hid all his ****, his poor management of credit cards, his drinking, etc. all our lives, so nothing new there. I have been tolerant for a long time but now this.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

BioFury said:


> Well, not having sex with him certainly won't help anything. I understand your position, and don't particularly like your husband based on your description. But withholding sex is just going to stress him further, and create temptations elsewhere.
> 
> Why do you say he doesn't care about you?


He only cares about himself and his work, it has been like this for some years now. He has always been a very selfish and self centered man, who has thought that working was all he had to do to have a satisfying marriage. 
He has had ED problems with me anyhow, taken Cialis, not sure why cause he wasn't pursuing me. I have been frustrated with our sex life for a few years now, it could be alcohol, it could be because he has lost that loving feeling. He wont open up and tell me straight up, I wish he would. His MO has always been to rug sweep, he says I cannot communicate but he most definitely cannot.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Mr.Married said:


> Girl ..... you know you been working on that long term plan. Just up the date and be done with it already !!!!


I know, the 'long term' is the problem. He may lose it all.


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## bobsmith (Oct 15, 2012)

aine said:


> Thanks for the frankness Bob but you don't know 'our story.' My H is an alcoholic, been on and off at AA but it never stuck, he thinks he can handle it so I let it be. I have endured all that comes with that, the anger, the not coming home, cheating (one I know off), emotional abuse, etc.
> 
> I work full time (elsewhere) and help with expenses as much as I can, though my income is one third of his. I was a stay at home mum and trailing spouse for his career (giving up my own), went back to get a doctorate and went back into the work force at a late age so I believe I am getting my hands dirty big time and sinking my teeth into my job, working weekends, etc to get ahead, (all of his friends and colleagues wives do not work).
> 
> ...


I might question who you married and who this man is you are married to now? You don't make him sound like a good person. Why again are you married to him if you two don't like each other? 

Drinking - The word "alcoholic" seems to carry a different meaning between law enforcement and medical personnel. LE seems to think if you have more than a few beers/week, you have a problem. The medical definition is someone that cannot stop once they start. One single beer can turn into finishing a bottle of vodka in an evening, then do it again in the morning. For this reason, I don't consider myself an "alcoholic", but I certainly do drink to medicate. I drink to turn my brain off, some others feel pills are better. I am able to stop though. I had two beers last night. How bad is your H drinking, really? Men drinking is nothing new and I think many do as I and drink to calm down and relax. 

It certainly sounds like you are doing your part but I wonder how long it took to get to this point? My apology if I previously sounded harsh. I don't know the details and VERY used to seeing women around here that don't work, yet sit around with their girl friends complaining about their partners. 

Totally not relevant to the topic but what is your doctorate in and what work do you do? I am only curious because I know plenty that make PLENTY of money, yet are poor because they need the biggest house, RV, pool, out building, vacations, newest truck, etc. Sometimes you have to decide between 'things' and your sanity.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

bobsmith said:


> Sounds like what I have been through. I have realized the emotional roller coaster is hard enough for a guy to take, but realizing his partner will eventually get off sucks worse. Just speaking from my own experiences, all I wanted was a partner that could sink her teeth into some part of the business that needs help and DO IT! For me there was nothing worse than to feel completely mentally exhausted fighting things with work, only to get ***** slapped (not physically) when getting home because I am late, or whatever.
> 
> As far as the booze, I am a drinker and would not be with anyone that did not accept that. He sounds like he closet drinks to hide it from you, which is not good. Not sure if this is his MO or something new for him but sounds like one more thing to hide.
> 
> ...


Did you read HER post, or just filter through your own stuff? HE wants to do the work HIMSELF so he can define himself by its success. And surely you can comprehend that there is a difference between the occasional drink and being an alcoholic.

BTW - lying and deceit is lying and deceit, regardless of reason. Once we are past 6 years old, "I thought you'd be mad" should no longer be an excuse for hiding things.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BioFury said:


> Well, not having sex with him certainly won't help anything. I understand your position, and don't particularly like your husband based on your description. But withholding sex is just going to stress him further, and create temptations elsewhere.
> 
> Why do you say he doesn't care about you?


Again, reading comprehension....The sex part came AFTER his alcoholic ways.

I wondered how long it would take for someone to say "give him sex."


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mr.Married said:


> Girl ..... you know you been working on that long term plan. Just up the date and be done with it already !!!!


EXACTLY

People who project their crap onto everything are not helpful.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

aine said:


> He only cares about himself and his work, it has been like this for some years now. He has always been a very selfish and self centered man, who has thought that working was all he had to do to have a satisfying marriage.
> He has had ED problems with me anyhow, taken Cialis, not sure why cause he wasn't pursuing me. I have been frustrated with our sex life for a few years now, it could be alcohol, it could be because he has lost that loving feeling. He wont open up and tell me straight up, I wish he would. His MO has always been to rug sweep, he says I cannot communicate but he most definitely cannot.


I see. Your future is tied to the business because your finances are joined? If your concern is that he will drop the ball and ruin things, then I don't see what you can do, besides try to lighten his load at work, or relieve some of his stress at home (meals, sex, etc.). But if he doesn't care about you, then I can definitely understand your unwillingness to do the above.



personofinterest said:


> Again, reading comprehension....The sex part came AFTER his alcoholic ways.
> 
> I wondered how long it would take for someone to say "give him sex."


I didn't say giving him sex would solve the problem. I said withholding sex was apt to make the problem worse.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BioFury said:


> I see. Your future is tied to the business because your finances are joined? If your concern is that he will drop the ball and ruin things, then I don't see what you can do, besides try to lighten his load at work, or relieve some of his stress at home (meals, sex, etc.). But if he doesn't care about you, then I can definitely understand your unwillingness to do the above.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say giving him sex would solve the problem. I said withholding sex was apt to make the problem worse.


She has only done so for 6 weeks due to his refusal to stop the problem drinking and lying about it. Expecting a woman whose husband is a deceptive alcoholic to "give him sex" is ridiculous.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Serious question. Do you care at all that your husband may be depressed and want to help him, or do you not really care about him at all but need his business to be successful so you can divorce him when the timing is right?

The reason I ask is because I don't think you will be successful in your efforts if it's just the money you are trying to fix, and not actually help him.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Serious question. Do you care at all that your husband may be depressed and want to help him, or do you not really care about him at all but need his business to be successful so you can divorce him when the timing is right?


Question: Have you read the other threads and her whole story?


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

aine said:


> He has had ED problems with me anyhow, taken Cialis, not sure why cause he wasn't pursuing me. I have been frustrated with our sex life for a few years now, it could be alcohol, it could be because he has lost that loving feeling. He wont open up and tell me straight up, I wish he would. His MO has always been to rug sweep, he says I cannot communicate but he most definitely cannot.


Oh @aine. With the exception of the alcoholism, reading this brought back all of the **** I dealt with with my ex husband. The unresolved ED problems, the lack of interest, his unwillingness to communicate and to rugsweep. I do not want to project my issues and the results of said issues onto your marriage but if your husband isn't willing to meet you half way then there really is no reason for you to keep putting in the effort is there? If the dissolution of my marriage has taught me anything is that it takes two intentional and committed people to make it work, and one person cannot save a bad marriage.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> Question: Have you read the other threads and her whole story?


No I haven't, thats why I asked my question. I have no idea what is going on with them other than what I have gathered here. 

What ive gathered is they are both basically done with the marriage and she seems to have a long term plan. I can only guess that is divorce when the timing is good for herself. Thats why I asked because I'm trying to figure out what the end game is.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

TheDudeLebowski said:


> Serious question. Do you care at all that your husband may be depressed and want to help him, or do you not really care about him at all but need his business to be successful so you can divorce him when the timing is right?
> 
> The reason I ask is because I don't think you will be successful in your efforts if it's just the money you are trying to fix, and not actually help him.



We were supposed to do dinner on me tonight. I called him at 7.30 to ask was it still on as he wasn’t home or did he want to take a rain check. He said you said it wasn’t on. That’s a lie , I never said that. I hung up. He came home on the attack half high as he’d been drinking with his buddy. He just needed an excuse for an argument. It descended into a war cause I could not hold my tongue. He then claimed it was a misunderstanding and as usual I always get angry. So now I get mistreated but am not allowed to have something to say about it. 
So you tell me whether I should care about this man and help him as you put it or whether I want to protect our finances. Tell me.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

aine said:


> We were supposed to do dinner on me tonight. I called him at 7.30 to ask was it still on as he wasn’t home or did he want to take a rain check. He said you said it wasn’t on. That’s a lie , I never said that. I hung up. He came home on the attack half high as he’d been drinking with his buddy. He just needed an excuse for an argument. It descended into a war cause I could not hold my tongue. He then claimed it was a misunderstanding and as usual I always get angry. So now I get mistreated but am not allowed to have something to say about it.
> So you tell me whether I should care about this man and help him as you put it or whether I want to protect our finances. Tell me.


Aine,
No advice to offer, just sympathy. This was kinda' tough to read as it sounds a lot like what I witnessed in my home all too frequently when I was growing up. 

I had to provide mom a lot of moral support and strength far more often than a kid should ever have to. At one point in my early teens, I actually told her she should divorce him and that I was willing to live with whatever financial consequences arose from the break. She didn't take my advice, which turned out to be correct as, in defiance of all the odds about alcoholics, Dad did eventually decide he cared enough to truly and permanently change. Of course, mom had to get terminal cancer for him to cross that threshold, but he was truly magnificent for the last five years of her life. 

Sorry about the sidebar: core message is that I understand and feel your pain. I wish you great strength and fortitude and hope you have someone to lean on.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

aine said:


> We were supposed to do dinner on me tonight. I called him at 7.30 to ask was it still on as he wasn’t home or did he want to take a rain check. He said you said it wasn’t on. That’s a lie , I never said that. I hung up. He came home on the attack half high as he’d been drinking with his buddy. He just needed an excuse for an argument. It descended into a war cause I could not hold my tongue. He then claimed it was a misunderstanding and as usual I always get angry. So now I get mistreated but am not allowed to have something to say about it.
> So you tell me whether I should care about this man and help him as you put it or whether I want to protect our finances. Tell me.


All that sucks and I'm sorry. 

I just know that people who truly love and care for their spouses have tried and failed to help them overcome depression. These people gave and gave and sacrificed self in an attempt to get their loved ones to overcome depression. Its a hard battle that only someone who truly loves their spouse is able to help with. 

If there is no love there, I think it will be wasted effort on your part. People are generally dumb, but they can sense ulterior motives easy enough. Him coming from the corporate world, he might be even more in tune with it tbh.

These are the pitfalls you face when you try to line things up perfectly for your own exit. When you realized your marriage was quick sand, you decided to stay in it a little longer for that perfect exit. Funny enough, almost always the perfect exit is when you realize you're in quick sand. You just get out and piece things together as you go. You made the decision to stay, probably against your own better judgement at that, to wait for that perfect opportunity. Now you are even deeper in the sand. 

There's a reason people say "I wish I would have left sooner!" Now some of them have reasons of still being in love with their spouse. They truly deeply want it to work out. Then some stayed because of finances. I'll be honest when I tell you I don't understand this personally. I came from nothing. The idea of being broke doesn't bother me at all, it's just life. So I'm not in any position to judge those who face coming from something and ending up with nothing. I have no idea what that feeling is like, thankfully. Its not a fear I would ever have because I know how to keep going while broke as a joke. So I can't judge your actions in any way. All I can offer is trying to help someone with the sole desire to help yourself and not them is probably a fruitless endeavor. Further, people say "I wish I would have left sooner" for a good reason. Overcome your fears and just move on already. I can teach you how to live broke. ****, I know that game well.


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

personofinterest said:


> She has only done so for 6 weeks due to his refusal to stop the problem drinking and lying about it. Expecting a woman whose husband is a deceptive alcoholic to "give him sex" is ridiculous.


I was merely pointing out that if her husband is stressed to the max, refusing sex is just going to heighten his distress. I confess, I'm unfamiliar with the details of her past, so I don't know if her husband has pressing sexual needs or not. But for most men, sexual frustration is one of the last types of stress we'd choose to undergo.

All that to say, precisely what I said at the first - denying him sex is unlikely to help the situation. Her reasons for doing so, however legitimate, will not negate the adverse effect her actions will have on her husbands stress level. Which is what she is trying to mollify, if I understood her purpose correctly.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

BioFury said:


> I was merely pointing out that if her husband is stressed to the max, refusing sex is just going to heighten his distress. I confess, I'm unfamiliar with the details of her past, so I don't know if her husband has pressing sexual needs or not. But for most men, sexual frustration is one of the last types of stress we'd choose to undergo.
> 
> All that to say, precisely what I said at the first - denying him sex is unlikely to help the situation. Her reasons for doing so, however legitimate, will not negate the adverse effect her actions will have on her husbands stress level. Which is what she is trying to mollify, if I understood her purpose correctly.


So you've created a no-win scenario. Either she has sex with a man who has made himself very unsexy (a losing proposition) or she puts up with him being cranky and/or depressed (also a losing proposition).

Here's the thing. He's going to be how he is whether he's having sex with him or not. Another roll in the hay isn't going to make him suddenly sober, honest, and livable. 

Here's another thing. Taking a hard line with an alcoholic rarely spurs them to sobriety. But not giving them consequences for their behavior _NEVER _does. A slim chance beats no chance. Dude needs to be called on the carpet, and more than just sexually.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So you've created a no-win scenario. Either she has sex with a man who has made himself very unsexy (a losing proposition) or she puts up with him being cranky and/or depressed (also a losing proposition).
> 
> Here's the thing. He's going to be how he is whether he's having sex with him or not. Another roll in the hay isn't going to make him suddenly sober, honest, and livable.
> 
> Here's another thing. Taking a hard line with an alcoholic rarely spurs them to sobriety. But not giving them consequences for their behavior _NEVER _does. A slim chance beats no chance. Dude needs to be called on the carpet, and more than just sexually.


Staying in a bad marriage creates a lot of no win situations


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## BioFury (Jul 9, 2015)

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> So you've created a no-win scenario. Either she has sex with a man who has made himself very unsexy (a losing proposition) or she puts up with him being cranky and/or depressed (also a losing proposition).
> 
> Here's the thing. He's going to be how he is whether he's having sex with him or not. Another roll in the hay isn't going to make him suddenly sober, honest, and livable.
> 
> Here's another thing. Taking a hard line with an alcoholic rarely spurs them to sobriety. But not giving them consequences for their behavior _NEVER _does. A slim chance beats no chance. Dude needs to be called on the carpet, and more than just sexually.


I wish it wasn't so, but as far as I can tell, her situation _is_ a no-win scenario. She can follow her heart, and not have sex with him during an intensely stressful period - thus increasing the risk of her financial ruin. Or, she can swallow her pride and and try to make his life easier however she can - the goal being to prop him up till she can safely detach and make her own way.

My impression from her, was that her finances were of critical importance. More so than her emotional health - evidenced by her continued partnership with her husband. But I could have misread. I wouldn't presume to tell her which option has a better cost to benefit ratio. That's something she'll have to decide for herself. And that's not to say the above are the only options available to her.


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