# Is this a man's version of "fitness testing"???



## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

I'm using sooo much mental energy to change my responses to my husband.
I've posted lots about our fighting. We're in counseling.

Bottom line: the holidays were bad, we both are at fault, he knows something is on my mind and I need to clear things up.
--->he treated me in a very hurtful way a few times.
To be specific, he asked me what was on my mind, then when I opened up, he got mad and shut me out.

I need to change the pattern of "I pursue and push, he distances."
I mentioned to him that "we need to talk" but I'm sick to death of initiating every emotional connection, so I'm pulling back.
So I'm keeping my cool and not setting myself up to be hurt again, trying to send a message of cool indifference instead of the pathetic neediness he sees all the time.

On to my question:

He's trying to be nice in "safe" ways---setting something up for me, making me a snack, watching "my show" with me.
he's trying to initiate neutral, happy small talk, but I'm resistant and more detached than normal; not rude, just neutral.
So then when I DO finally respond to something with a more invested opinion and i comment in response to his comments (about the stupid tv show), he jumps all over me and gets all argumentative. 
It's like he's setting me up, or sucking me in.

Men, help me out here...WTF is this, any insight?
I feel like he's testing me to watch me react so he can point the finger at me again.

This is exhausting...I'm postponing the necessary honest conversation for therapy Thursday night, for my own sanity and welfare.
WTF is this...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Maybe I'm off here, but there are times when I will state a simple opinion about some "stupid" TV show and my wife will act as if I've insulted her.

I would say take any arguments over stupid TV shows for what they are - him just stating his opinion.

I'm also learning to stop pursuing the emotional conversations - because they more often than not just EXHAUST everyone and it seems that little progress is made.

I often think to myself "talking is bad." Its an overstatement, but its helped! Some of this crap you just have to let go.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

There are a few things going on here as far as I can see wrt to several of your posts.

We have discussed effective limit setting... 

But what I read here is another facet of the complicated dynamic. I am inferring a lot, so I warn that I may be way off base.

I am going to talk about what I see as a parallel from my earlier marriage. I married DH because I loved him. But as we tried to join our domicile and other practical details, conflict came up. He was always wrong in my eyes. Yes he was a goof ball. Hi Mom had done everything for him. BUT the feeling he got from me was that though I had chosen him, he was wrong, wrong, wrong. Bad, bad, bad. And if he was not good enough, what's the POINT in trying? Comments like "I guess I am always wrong." Or "I can't do anything right." were a combination of frustrated sarcasm and resigned failure.

The ingredients to the recipe that helped change the dynamic were three:
- dispassionate problem solving skills that take the needs and PoV of both into account (not assuming I am right in my PoV).
- effective limit setting without anger (to be discussed more following)
- speaking his love language loud and clear, even a tad falsely at first until we could change the dynamic enough for me to mean it in earnest. This is used to combat his feelings of uselessness and inadequacy until he can become useful and adequate through step 2, effective limit setting.

On effective limit setting, there seems to be a common misunderstanding. I was speaking to a friend today. She had an altercation with her SIL in which her SIL basically railed her for her marriage, her parenting and just about everything else. She saw two choices
- rip her a new bumm hole back.
- roll over and take it.
Not so. I suggested she tell her SIL that she did not have the right to criticize her marriage, her parenting or her life, especially with angry hurtful words. While friend would like to facilitate a relationship between SIL and her nephews, until such time as SIL can speak to her with respect and kindness, friend will not be communicating with SIL.

So what choice does that leave SIL? She can go away. Yay! Or she can learn to speak respectfully to gain access to the nephews. Win-win for friend.

I hope this helps. It sounds like your scene is complicated.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Vt, thanks for taking the time...

Honestly I think my husband needs a wakeup call.

I'm tired of playing the role I've taken on: pursuing and cajoling, while he decides whether and when he wants to grant me the privilege.

So I'm not playing that role anymore, and I'm waiting to see what happens.
Which is why i'm pushing less, saying less, asking less, doing less--changing MY side of this dynamic.
I'm holding back because the last 2 times I opened up to him, I got burned.

That's part of what I need to say to him at therapy, as well as my boundaries and setting limits.

Something has changed inside of ME--it's serious enough that I need to put him on notice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> Vt, thanks for taking the time...
> 
> Honestly I think my husband needs a wakeup call.


That is what the limit setting is. You are effectively saying we are not going to be doing it the old way anymore.



> I'm tired of playing the role I've taken on: pursuing and cajoling, while he decides whether and when he wants to grant me the privilege.


Stop pursuing and cajoling! It obviously hasn't worked. 

I wish I could remember specific examples of what you want from him so I could give example to your situation. 



> So I'm not playing that role anymore, and I'm waiting to see what happens.
> Which is why i'm pushing less, saying less, asking less, doing less--changing MY side of this dynamic.


To a point. But to be honest, I don't expect that to be effective on its own. Without limit setting, you are likely to just move from cajoling to being taken advantage of.

You example of him freaking out over a tv conversation. You asked me a question. I answered. I do not care to be spoken to that way (or you don't have the right to speak to me with disrespect). When you can speak to me with respect, I will resume this conversation. That is entirely different than just ignoring it which allows him to think in his mind that all is ducky.




> I'm holding back because the last 2 times I opened up to him, I got burned.
> 
> That's part of what I need to say to him at therapy, as well as my boundaries and setting limits.
> 
> ...


There is always that.


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Yes, to follow up: 
your previous advice of the past few weeks was helpful to me...

And you're right that what I'm doing in itself won't be enough to effect the change I need.

I'm clearly changing my approach to him.
To put it simply, I'm acting like I don't care.
I'm being cold and/or neutral.

We both know this is not the real me.
But he's letting me do it with no curiosity or concern.
Also---we've both committed to certain "daily behaviors" in therapy.
---->100% of the time, i'm the one who initiates.
I haven't for the past 2 days, and guess what---he isn't either.
Men, I'm sure this sounds like game-playing or testing.
It is, and it's not my style and I don't want to do it.

But the point is, it's a marked difference in my own behavior, when what I've been doing so far has not freakin' worked.
He sees me as overemotional and needy.
Not anymore.
The consequence of stepping on my feelings is that I'll behave as if they are shut off---all of them, including the warmth and affection he's used to.

Yes, I need to honestly express my needs, concerns, and limits with him.
But it shows necessary self-control if I wait till therapy to do that, since I feel we need the ref there to hold him accountable for behaving in a way that he KNOWS is both unproductive and hurtful.
Basically, I want to call him out.

AFTER that conversation, I'll be ready for a fresh start.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JoReba (Dec 31, 2010)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I'm using sooo much mental energy to change my responses to my husband.
> I've posted lots about our fighting. We're in counseling.
> 
> Bottom line: the holidays were bad, we both are at fault, he knows something is on my mind and I need to clear things up.
> ...


Men distance themselves from their wives when the wives are petty.


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

JoReba said:


> Men distance themselves from their wives when the wives are petty.


Actually, an insecure husband will become a bit worried and draw closer if his spouse pulls back...


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Well, he has some insecurities...but he's so practiced at covering them up with a front of pride, that I don't know if he'll draw closer.

He would never admit any fear or any hurt. 

I'm done with petty. Done with needy.
Would like to get back to warm and close, but not till I get some things off my chest and he understands some things.
I deserve to be heard, but I'm done pushing him to hear me.

He said "stop pushing."
he said "leave me alone."

so I am.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Blanca (Jul 25, 2008)

credamdóchasgra said:


> I mentioned to him that "we need to talk" but I'm sick to death of initiating every emotional connection, so I'm pulling back.
> So I'm keeping my cool and not setting myself up to be hurt again, trying to send a message of cool indifference instead of the pathetic neediness he sees all the time.


:smthumbup: 

the first step on the road to recovery


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## credamdóchasgra (Sep 24, 2010)

Thanks, Blanca.
I have a lot of justifiable anger toward him for ways he has hurt me MANY times.
I want to get past it, but that can't happen until he understands that certain things won't fly anymore.
I know I have to change some of my behaviors too---I AM, right now!!!!
He's noticed, and he doesn't know what to do with it.
I've allowed him to cross boundaries that I won't allow to be crossed anymore.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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