# Is he using me or am I being unreasonable?



## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

So I am in need of advice about my relationship. I feel like it's hard to grasp if I have a problem or if the relationship is just not right. BEWARE: This is a bit lengthy. 

About a year ago I moved to Georgia from Virginia to start fresh. I had just broke up with my live-in bf after 2 years and I vowed to myself that I would never settle for anything less than what I deserve. My ex and I broke up because I felt like he was extremely selfish and he had no idea what he wanted to do in life. We were both in our late 20s. 

When I moved I stayed with my parents for a bit to get a feel of the city and save money until I knew where I wanted to live. I went out every once and a while and I was also active with online dating. I didn't think much of it so I wasn't too serious about it until I met this particular guy. He is gorgeous but definitely not a pretty boy. He is a little rough around the edges but he treated me like a queen. When we met he had just moved to the city (30 days before) as well and didn't have a car or a job. He was staying with his sister at the time. I didn't know this initially because he tried to hide it all from me. Eventually I figured it out but at that time I was already head over heels and figured that he was a little embarrassed to go through that. And honestly being a successful career-minded woman (Senior IT Architect) I didn't run into many guys at my same level at this age. And when I did they were full of themselves and controlling. I assumed he was just in a bad spot. I wanted to be with someone who wouldnt take advantage of me but I didn't want to be snobby about it either.

The relationship moved pretty quickly and we ended up moving into an apartment together. He got a job as a warehouse worker. And I met most of his family and friends. He even talked about marriage and more kids in our future (he already has 2 kids). He said he loved his job because it was really easy money. However it was supposed to be temporary because he wanted to get into IT as well. He planned to study to get a certification so he could qualify for an entry level IT position. He never finished his degree because he dropped out when he divorced his ex-wife and had to take care of his kids alone. 

He told me that they divorced because she was in the military and she cheated on him when she went overseas. He kept both of their children (boy and girl) while she was gone and while she was out of the country she asked for a divorce. The very next day after he signed the papers she married the guy she had an affair with. When got back to the US she asked for the daughter and her and her new husband got stationed in another state. He had his son for a few years and when he asked to be with his mother he sent him to live with his mom and he moved to Georgia where I met him.

The summer came and he had both if his kids for the entire summer and I had my goddaughter. For 2 months we had three 7 & 8 year olds. I work from home so I reluctantly agreed to keep them during the day so that we would not have to pay for summer camp and he could still see his kids everyday. Needless to say this was a bad idea. He did absolutely nothing to help me the entire summer. I fed them, clothed them, broke up arguments, and dealt with attitudes all while trying to make sure their summer had plenty of activities. He would come home from work and sit outside to smoke and drink beer for 3 or 4 hours and them come in the house and go straight to bed. When I confronted him about it he acted as if I was nagging and if I didn't like his kids.

Once they left it went back to normal but his smoking and drinking habits stayed the same. He stop studying for the certification and I hadn't heard of him talk about leaving his job for a better one anymore. He even stopped paying bills on time or at all some weeks. He would spend his money on other things and still will not have enough to pay his phone bill sometimes. I had talked to him about all of my issues before on several occasions but he always took it as though I was calling him a bad person. So I tried to go another route and write him a letter, presented it to him and then hoped that we could talk about it like adults after he read it. It didn't go as I planned and he got really upset that I sat and wrote all of the things I wanted to change in a letter instead of talking to him about it. When I told him why I wrote it instead of talking to him he still was upset. Eventually after he cooled down a couple days later I paraphrased it to him and we seemed to be on a better path. He helps out around the house more, he helps with my dog, and he pays bills on time now. He's even trying to study for the certification again and every now and then he will come to the gym and work out with me in the mornings. We also started to slowly become vegetarian to be healthier and loose a bit of weight. His drinking and smoking has slowed down a little but not much. 

So you would think I would be satisfied right? Wrong. The other day I was contacted about a job that pays a large amount of money. When we talked about the job he would make comments like "I'm never going to make more money than you" and "Because you're going to make so much money and I'm not you should pay a majority of the bills. I would be upset if I'm still giving you half of my paycheck and you can pay for it with just a quarter of one of your checks". Then he mentioned that he has no intention on getting a $200,000 degree when we will already be good. I told him that I wouldn't want to be with someone who would take advantage of me and my situation. But then he said that I'm just taking what he said in a negative way and he doesn't mean it that way. He even said that I'm probably going to leave him for somebody with more money once I get my new job anyway. But I honestly had no intention on being with anyone else. 

Now I feel like I'm in a hard spot because I want to to be with someone who has drive and ambition. I wanted someone I can build an Empire with and someone who could motivate our kids to do the same. I also wanted a partner who is willing to help me with housework and cooking as I am not looking to be a traditional house wife. I don't believe in that logic. I don't need him to be a millionaire or even strive to be a millionaire but I would like him to have enough drive to finish his degree and continue to work to better himself and not look at me as his crutch. 

I feel like the position I'm in now is mostly my fault because when we first started dating, and I realized he didn't have a job, I paid for mostly everything until he started working. I know that people can get comfortable in the situations that they're in and take advantage of them and maybe he wasn't this way before he met me but it's hard to say. But this is also why I left my ex in Virginia. He got too comfortable with me doing everything and stopped doing for himself and didn't feel the need to help me anymore.

Not sure if this can be fixed or if I would be just like the snobby guys I don't like if I were to leave him because of his lack of ambition. The other day he offered to pay for my certification to get a better job. But now I don't know if this is a gesture to help himself in the long run or if he's just being a supportive boyfriend.

Often I hear people say that women usually look for the perfect man and what they want never really exists.

My best friend thinks that he's using me and if I were to marry him I should get a prenup but then I think if I feel like I will need a prenup why marry him at all? 

But if I were to get a prenup I would most likely put everything in my name and keep separate accounts. And about a year-and-a-half we planned on buying a house in Florida near our families and starting our lives there.

Is he using me? Am I being unrealistic with my expectations? What do you think about the situation?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OK, I know this looks complicated and difficult from the inside, but from the outside its very simple: You are dating a man who at first seemed appealing but over time you have discovered isn't what you want in a life partner. So, don't make him a life partner. Don't make it anyone's "fault", just let him know that you are leaving because you don't see this working out for the rest of your life. It will upset him and it will hurt to do it, but the longer you wait, the worse it will be, and if yo marry this man you will be miserable and resentful until you divorce.


On a more complicate level, you started dating a guy who was "rough around the edges" and you soon discovered was unemployed. In Hollywood romances, poverty is sort of cute - the poor guy is always charming, and somehow his "poverty" never impacts his life in any way except that his apartment is decorated in a rustic style. I've been poor, and poverty is NOT fun. Poverty means not having a wide range of things that you would like in life. Along with the obvious things like bad food and living in a bad area, it involves tremendous time wastage. There are lots of time consuming things you can short-cut with money but have to endure if you can't pay. 


What I'm saying is that there is nothing bad or immoral in wanting a partner who will contribute to your family wealth so that you can both live a better life. 

To be clear, I'm not saying that everyone should marry for money. If someone is happy without the things that money will bring them, its completely fine to marry a poor / unemployed person. Just do so with open eyes. 



When you decide to date a cowboy, don't be surprised to discover that he smells of cow s###.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

It sounds like he is looking forward to a soft life on your dime. How do you compare intellectually,can you have a reasonable conversation with him without you feeling you are dumbing down.This would get old very quickly. You need to protect yourself financially and I would never buy a house together with him,if you do buy a house make sure it's just your name on the deeds.


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

uhtred said:


> OK, I know this looks complicated and difficult from the inside, but from the outside its very simple: You are dating a man who at first seemed appealing but over time you have discovered isn't what you want in a life partner. So, don't make him a life partner. Don't make it anyone's "fault", just let him know that you are leaving because you don't see this working out for the rest of your life. It will upset him and it will hurt to do it, but the longer you wait, the worse it will be, and if yo marry this man you will be miserable and resentful until you divorce.
> 
> 
> On a more complicate level, you started dating a guy who was "rough around the edges" and you soon discovered was unemployed. In Hollywood romances, poverty is sort of cute - the poor guy is always charming, and somehow his "poverty" never impacts his life in any way except that his apartment is decorated in a rustic style. I've been poor, and poverty is NOT fun. Poverty means not having a wide range of things that you would like in life. Along with the obvious things like bad food and living in a bad area, it involves tremendous time wastage. There are lots of time consuming things you can short-cut with money but have to endure if you can't pay.
> ...


Thank you for your honesty. It is hard to see that from the inside. I will take your advice into consideration.

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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> How do you compare intellectually,can you have a reasonable conversation with him without you feeling you are dumbing down.This would get old very quickly.


He is very intelligent and we talk about politics, life, and everything. This is why I don't understand why he doesn't want to finish school anymore or challenge himself at work. 

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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

He's right that if you end up making more the bills should be split by % of income brought in and not 50/50 

BUT he doesn't sound like a match for you and that will just show worse and worse if you marry or have kids. Some people are just happy where they are at. They don't feel the need to get ahead or push themselves for more. It's fine but would be a constant struggle for you who has goals and wants for the future that he can't match.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have a question, why would a degree cost him $200,000? Isn’t that a gross exaggeration? My son’s been in college for some time now. He’s working on his PHD in physics and Nano Science. So I’m pretty much up on what it costs to attend a state university these days.

Tuition is $7,146.00 a semester, books and fees about $1,200. That’s $66,760 for a 4-year degree. You guy could get a Pell grant, student loans and probably some scholarships to help defray the cost.

If you spread that cost over a 30-year career, that’s $2,225.33 a year. Surely, he would earn a lot more than $2,225.33 a year more with a degree in IT than he’s earning now
.
Let’s say that right now he earns $40,000 a year working at the warehouse. If he got it degree, let’s say that he would earn an average of $85,000 a year for 30 years. That’s a $45K more a year. Or $1,350,000 more in a 30-year career in IT. 

I think I just blew his argument that the degree is not worth it out of the water. Shoot, a $200K investment is worth it to earn $1.3 Million more.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

dimefitness said:


> He is very intelligent and we talk about politics, life, and everything. This is why I don't understand why he doesn't want to finish school anymore or challenge himself at work.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


My former intern is in your situation. BSEE engaged to a GED. She's paying for everything. On top of that he's got some mental health issues and can't or won't work or go to college.

Monumentally bad idea if you ask me.


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He's right that if you end up making more the bills should be split by % of income brought in and not 50/50


We did make this change recently it was just the comments afterwards that made me upset. Him saying he would never make that much and had no desire to. So basically for the rest of our lives together I would be paying 3, 4, or even 5 times more on everything.

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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

EleGirl said:


> I have a question, why would a degree cost him $200,000? Isn’t that a gross exaggeration? My son’s been in college for some time now. He’s working on his PHD in physics and Nano Science. So I’m pretty much up on what it costs to attend a state university these days.
> 
> Tuition is $7,146.00 a semester, books and fees about $1,200. That’s $66,760 for a 4-year degree. You guy could get a Pell grant, student loans and probably some scholarships to help defray the cost.
> 
> ...


He gets very dramatic when trying to make a point. But I don't understand his logic either. However much his degree cost is worth it in my opinion to have a better lifestyle. And what makes it even worse is that he's almost halfway done with it already. And the only debt he has incurred is what his full football scholarship didn't pay for after he dropped out and tried to go back.

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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

john117 said:


> My former intern is in your situation. BSEE engaged to a GED. She's paying for everything. On top of that he's got some mental health issues and can't or won't work or go to college.
> 
> Monumentally bad idea if you ask me.


Wow! That sounds a little worse. My SO only has about 2 more years to finish his bachelor's and we split the bills just not equally. A few months ago he tried to go back to college but now he's saying he doesn't want to try again. I'm not sure what the deal is hopefully it's temporary.

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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Someone doesn't require a degree to earn a lot of money, there are many other paths. Starting a business, working their way up to being a general contractor, etc. Just as with a degree, these require huge amounts of work and talent in the appropriate direction. 

What they also require is drive / ambition. A degree that is not coupled with a desire to succeed, will not result in someone having a good job.


Separate from the money issue, does he want to excel in anything? If not, is that OK with you?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dimefitness said:


> We did make this change recently it was just the comments afterwards that made me upset. Him saying he would never make that much and had no desire to. So basically for the rest of our lives together I would be paying 3, 4, or even 5 times more on everything.


Keep in mind that this is traditionally the with it is with men because me often marry women who earn a lot less than they do. And the man is the primary bread winner. In this sort of relationship the woman is usually also the one who does most of the housework and the child care. About 30% of women today are SAHM (stay at home moms) so makes sense that SAHMs do the majority of these tasks.

If you stay with him, you are going to be the primary bread winner and so, yes, you will be paying most of the bills.


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

uhtred said:


> Someone doesn't require a degree to earn a lot of money, there are many other paths. Starting a business, working their way up to being a general contractor, etc. Just as with a degree, these require huge amounts of work and talent in the appropriate direction.
> 
> What they also require is drive / ambition. A degree that is not coupled with a desire to succeed, will not result in someone having a good job.
> 
> ...


That is a good point. He is currently studying for the IT certification now and he talks about buying a large truck because he says it will be easy money. But other than that the only thing I hear him talk about is wanting to live in a big house with a large backyard so that he can grow all of his vegetables and fish and be able to have his kids live with him. Not much about anything else. 

I know that he has mentioned a few times about how his childhood was so horrible and he was poor living in and out of hotels with his mother so he could just possibly be satisfied with where he is now.

On the other hand I've come from a different background and for as long as I could remember my father has always strived to be better in his career and told me to find someone who has it all together so that I am not taken advantage of. 

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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

There is a reason why the military W left him. Keep looking.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think its important to separate what is "right / wrong" from what lifestyle choices people want to make. 

Its not right or wrong to to be ambitions, to want money, a successful career, to excel, to value work, to value raising kids etc. 

There is nothing at all "wrong" about someone who only wants to work enough to bring in money for bare necessities, who is happy living in simple low-rent accommodations. To enjoy hanging out with friends, walking in the park, fishing, or other low-cost entertainments, driving an old pickup truck. Sending their kids to a state school. There are lots of happy good people who live that way. There are of course lots of miserable people who spend their lives resenting what they don't have.

There is also nothing wrong with wanting a penthouse condo in a major city, vacations to Bora Bora, driving a Maserati, and sending their kids to Yale. There are lots of happy good people with that lifestyle. There are also lots of miserable people who work themselves to death only to discover too late that *things* don't make them happy.

What does matter is that a married couple have roughly the same ambitions. Otherwise it will be difficult for either of them to be happy. 



BTW - I'm suspicious of anyone's plans for success that involve staring with a large investment - especially if they think it will lead to "easy money". Running a business is NOT easy, its NOT less work than a normal job - its a lot more. Usually the right approach first is to do a LOT of work before making any investment. That work includes serious market research, understanding of business and tax laws and extensive business planning before making some investment in the hopes that it will pay off. 

For the right person, starting a business is a great idea, but it requires a high level of drive and a willingness to work very hard at things you don't enjoy doing in order to succeed.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dimefitness said:


> That is a good point. *He is currently studying for the IT certification now and he talks about buying a large truck because he says it will be easy money.* But other than that the only thing I hear him talk about is wanting to live in a big house with a large backyard so that he can grow all of his vegetables and fish and be able to have his kids live with him. Not much about anything else.
> 
> I know that he has mentioned a few times about how his childhood was so horrible and he was poor living in and out of hotels with his mother so he could just possibly be satisfied with where he is now.
> 
> On the other hand I've come from a different background and for as long as I could remember my father has always strived to be better in his career and told me to find someone who has it all together so that I am not taken advantage of.


That's not good. But knowing his background I can understand it. He has the mentality of a kid who grew up with nothing and does not know how to handle money. IT work is not really easy money. It can be a lot of long, exhausting hours. It's just a different kind of tiring than working in a warehouse. 

If you stay with him and he gets an IT job, or any kind of better paying job, you are also going to have to guide him to teach him who to handle money. There are good books and programs out there for this.

I think that you leaving him might actually help him. He apparently has it so much better now than he ever has that he thinks all is good. It's very understandable that he does not have much in the way of ambition. He did not see it modeled for him as a child and apparently it's not something that is innate in him.


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## Yorkie_Lover (Jul 25, 2013)

DimeFitness:

Having been married several times, I learned the hard way that usually relationships are more successful when they have "parity" on the financial level. And perhaps net worth. Too great a disparity in incomes can cause arguments about money and how it should be spent or saved.

My views on parity were expanded to thinking about issues of compatibility when I discovered a book by Sam R. Hamburg, "Will Our Love Last?" Hamburg writes about compatibility in three categories; "Everyday Things", "Sexual" and "Wavelength". He has exercises in his book to help a couple determine their compatibility. 

The "wavelength" category may be what you are battling about. Wavelength translates to having similar worldviews, whether its about having children, or how one wants to spend one's time. Hamburg says to think about "Who are your best friends?" and "Why are they your best friends?" Because they usually have similar worldviews and when communicating with you, they "get-it" and affirm you because they feel the same way about the issue as you do. 

My most unhappy marriage was to a woman to whom fitness wasn't important. When I married her, her boys were early adolescents and they played little-league baseball. Games were played every night after school and usually six days a week. When Sunday would roll around, I'd be aching to get out and hike or to be active in some way and experience "quality time" with my wife. My ex wife wasn't willing to be active because she had to "recharge her batteries" on Sunday, after having taken the boys to the games and school events all week. When the boys finally got into High School, I quit attending their games because they could drive and they didn't need the affirmation that a younger child needs. I took up road-biking and went hiking a great deal. My ex used to complain that I was manifesting what Willard Harley of "His Needs, Her Needs" book fame calls "independent behavior" in his "Lovebusters'" book, meaning my activities took me away from her which was true. 

But it wouldn't have been independent behavior if fitness was important to her, she'd have been out there with me exercising. 

I eventually divorced her due to a compulsive gambling issue. But she also had only a High School education and I had earned a Masters in Management. The Parity thing reared it's ugly head in that arena, too. We just didn't have intellectual conversations. 

So when I began online dating, I was very selective about having parity with education, fitness, income and interests. I eventually married my perfect partner. She has a law degree, is extremely fit and loves to hike and ski. She has an adventure streak like I do and we both love the out-of-doors activities and travel together. We get along extremely well, because we are so compatible. Life is easy together because we have similar worldviews and interests. 

So you are an IT professional, just as I was. Do you ever ponder the fact regardless of level of academia achieved, there is no curriculum content that teaches one what it takes to be a parent, or select a spouse, and what it takes to make marriage successful, and how to invest for retirement? The student of those topics must seek that information on their own.

You and your SO are mis-matched in the ambition and educational levels at the very least and likely in other ways. 

I don't think you'd be happy long-term in a marriage to him. Best to find a more compatible partner.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

MAJDEATH said:


> There is a reason why the military W left him. Keep looking.


I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that there was way more than one reason.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

So you would think I would be satisfied right? Wrong. The other day I was contacted about a job that pays a large amount of money. When we talked about the job he would make comments like "I'm never going to make more money than you" and "Because you're going to make so much money and I'm not you should pay a majority of the bills. I would be upset if I'm still giving you half of my paycheck and you can pay for it with just a quarter of one of your checks". Then he mentioned that he has no intention on getting a $200,000 degree when we will already be good. I told him that I wouldn't want to be with someone who would take advantage of me and my situation. But then he said that I'm just taking what he said in a negative way and he doesn't mean it that way. He even said that I'm probably going to leave him for somebody with more money once I get my new job anyway. But I honestly had no intention on being with anyone else. 

This tell you who he is. He is expecting you to take care of him because you make more. He will say things to make you feel bad about being successful. He will make it seem as if he is the underdog. Always with the poor me attitude and you are misunderstanding me. He will I have a feeling all of these minor changes he made recently will be quickly forgotten as soon as you stop talking about it. And he starts to feel relaxed again. 

I would not take money from him to get your another certificate. What I would do is make a swift exit from this relationship because people don't change who they are on a the most basic level. He will always revert to who he really is. 

If you were my daughter, I will tell you to end things and be with someone who is will to work alongside you. Its good that he has dreams for a bigger house etc but he needs to work to make his own dreams a reality.


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## Steve1000 (Nov 25, 2013)

@dimefitness

For what it's worth, I have a decent professional long-term career and bought a house before I was married and have been debt free. My wife is wealthy with more than a million in savings. Because we married later in life, we keep our finances separate. I never considered paying for less than 1/2 of the bills. In fact, I pay more than she does. I don't think I'm being cheated because I don't think that she should be punished for marrying someone less wealthy than her. 

From your posts, it doesn't seem like your boyfriend is all that appreciative of your financial support. In addition, do you really want to get married to a guy who spends his evenings drinking and smoking every night?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

dimefitness said:


> Now I feel like I'm in a hard spot because I want to to be with someone who has drive and ambition.
> Is he using me? Am I being unrealistic with my expectations? What do you think about the situation?


Yes he's using you. No, you're not being unrealistic, you're just mismatched. He will never change who he is. He will always be willing to ride on some woman's coattails if she's dumb enough to let him. And he gaslights and manipulates you to keep you in line.

Tell me why you should stay for any of that?


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. 

If you're looking for a man who's similar to you, keep looking because this man isn't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There are a couple of books that I think might help you in realizing what is reasonable to ask for in a relationship and how to talk about it. Even though I think you are going to have to end this relationship because of all the issues brought up here, I think that books would help if you read them before your next relationship.

The books are:

"Love Busters" 
"His Needs, Her Needs" 

Both are by Dr. Harley.

In your next relationship, you might also want to consider moving more slowly. Generally when a couple meets and falls 'in love' they are in an infatuation period for 18 to 24 months. During this time, their brains are making and up taking large amounts of feel good chemicals like dopamine and Oxytocin (the bonding hormone). Basically this period of time is a lot like being high on cocaine. And that high is as a unreal as a cocaine high. During this time, the brain chemicals keep you from seeing who the other person really is. You gloss over huge issues.... like you did with this guy.

In nature, it was the way that our bodies kept a couple together long enough for the female to get pregnant, birth a child and get that child through the early months.... with a male, the father, there to help her. But modern society does not work like that.

Think of this--during child birth a woman's body is flooded with oxytocin. It has two purposes. 1) to help her bond to her child at birth so that she will take care of the child who is so very demanding 2) to help deaden her memory of the pain of birth. I've read studies that say that if women did not have this flood of oxytocin at birth, there would never be a second child due to the woman now knowing the level of pain.

Because of this numbing affect on our memory, oxytocin is another nickname besides the bonding hormone, it's also called the amnesia hormone. It helps us forget pain and gloss over it.

So when the oxytocin levels are high during the infatuation stage, it helps to gloss over problems in the person we are infatuated with. (works the same way for men and women in this case). Oxytocin = 'rose colored glasses'.

Somewhere between 18 & 24 months your brain slows down the production/up-take of these feel-good chemicals. The 'rose colored glasses' come off and you start to see the reality of who the other person really is. You are a this stage. 

At this point, if everything is good, the two of you would grow into the mature love stage that lasts a life time. But things are not good, and the only real path ahead of you two if you stay together is discord and it will either end in you two separating/divorce (if you marry) or a very unhappy life for the two of you.

One thing for you to consider is that while it might be hard for you to end this relationship, you are not doing him any favors in continuing it. why? Because he needs to learn to support himself. He needs to find his passion and ambition if there is any possibility at all that he can. As long as he has you to be dependent on, he's not going to do that. It's too easy to just let you support him.

There is another risk too, in relationships like yours, where the women earns more and there is trouble due to his... about 75% of the men cheat. I suppose it's their way of sticking a finger in the eye of the woman that they supposedly love but resent.

After years of supporting folks on forums and living my real life, I believe that a couple should date for 2 years before even consider moving in together and/or marrying. It's important to get through that infatuation period so that you can see who the other person really is before you make that commitment.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

My DD27 is really smart about that stuff. She had a list of things she would not accept and would accept in a man. So she was very picky and perfectly happy being single until the right guy came along. By the time she was 24, she'd only had 3 real boyfriends. 

When she finally met her fiance three years ago, they dated for months before she'd even go to bed with him. They didn't move in together for a year and a half. And only after that did he propose, and even then, she didn't want to marry until she'd been with a guy for at least three years so she could see him in good times and bad, because what they're like in the bad times is who you really marry. And she had to get her Masters degree before she'd get married. She just did that, so their wedding will be next May. Four complete years since they met. Because she knew she didn't have to have a guy to feel complete, so she could afford to be picky and take it slow. Any guy who wouldn't wait for her wasn't worth having. 

That's a big difference from moving in with a guy within months, right? There's no way in hell you could know a guy well enough in a few months to commit like that, especially when you have kids.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

One other comment. Having grown up in a relatively poor family I was raised with the idea that the wealthy "didn't deserve" their wealth. That it came from "tricks", or scams or something, but not from actual work. That lead to my both believing that I should look for "get rich quick" type schemes and, much more negatively, that it was pretty much OK to take from wealthy people because they didn't deserve what they had. 

Needles to say, my attitudes have changed, but not everyone's do change that way.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

This man was a failure to launch, whether due to life circumstances, choices, or lifestyle (or a combination).

That's really not of your problem, yet you're already calculating how to survive this relationship in the future.

Don't plan your life around survival. That's not a good match nor a healthy relationship. Be grateful he showed you exactly who he was so that you were able to live in reality before he was a permanent part of your life in the legal sense.

A man who resents you for better pay, job, or future will always resent you and think less of himself, and be depressed. Because you launched and he did not. Rather than use that energy to light a fire under his own arse, he chooses to resent and take it out on you (Ms. Babysitter). 

You're just mismatched. The pain from separating will be temporary. Don't feel like a failure because you made two poor choices in men. I did, too. Lots of us have. You can't live an ideal life without having made mistakes. How else do you learn?


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## LaReine (Aug 14, 2017)

I have no issue with the higher wage earner paying a higher portion of bills. That just makes sense.

However, it is very clear that he expects it all from you- you to bring home the money and to look after the kids/house.

He is lazy, has no drive and doesn't want to change.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Yes, he is using you. You've seen how he takes care of his kids.

Pack up his wifebeaters and bowling ball and send him on his way.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I am with the earlier poster who said this is really quite simple from the outside looking in. 

To put it simply, your Picker is broken and needs a tune-up.

You say you wouldn't settle but the moment you came across someone that made your jay-jay tingle you compromised on all the other traits and you spackled over all the red flags that were flapping in the breeze. 

And why the rush to move in and trying to be a pinch-hitter mom for his kids?

This is just silly. 

The purpose of dating someone is to do things with them and spend time with them to get to know them and to find out what kind of person they are and see if they may be the one that you want to marry and have a home and family with them. 

It really is an interview and tryout and probationary period to see if your values and mores and beliefs and life-goals and all other criteria line up with each other and are a match. 

When you find that someone is not meeting your criteria and not what you are wanting in a mate, you wish them well, make a clean and compassionate break and you go back on the market and start interviewing other candidates. 

If you meet some eye-candy in a bar or online and want to have a night or two of fun, that is fine. But don't jump into any kind of commitment or merging of lifestyles and living accommidations or financial arrangements etc until someone checks off all the right boxes. 

This is "Picker" issue and a "spackling" issue. You have a Picker that is not working very well to begin with and then you are spackling over all their warts and blemishes and chips in the paint and trying to convince yourself that they will be ok and everything will buff out. 

Stop doing that. 

This is like a guy bringing home a drug addicted stripper because she looks good in high heels and can swing her butt around the way he likes so he tries to convince himself she'll make a good faithful wife and mother and that his friends and family will like her and accept her if they would just ignore the fact she is a drug addicted stripper and get to know her better.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

LaReine said:


> I have no issue with the higher wage earner paying a higher portion of bills. That just makes sense.
> 
> However, it is very clear that he expects it all from you- you to bring home the money and to look after the kids/house.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree with you more.
I live with my girlfriend,our six month old baby,and her son from a previous relationship.It absolutely kills her that she can't contribute fifty percent of the household expenses and she is forever painting,decorating,gardening etc to try and make up for it.I tell her I am happy to have her look after me and the children but she still feels she should be paying her way.
It sounds like this guy should take a leaf out of her book.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

But he won't, because that's who he is - a User.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm curious about all the rest of this relationship. If money is the end all be all for you, then yeah, dump him. If he is a wonderful man, loves you, treats you great, is loyal, faithful, has a great sense of humor, same interests in other areas in life (outside of career), is a loving father, sexual match etc...at what point does someone not having nearly all the same work standards as you get kind of ridiculous?

The things you listed that I didn't like were not that he works in a warehouse, or that he isn't gung-ho for a degree and to change careers. It was the smoking and drinking and not helping with the kids etc. That's the stuff I would be hung up on. Yet, those are things that can be addressed and changed. Maybe he is sick to death of school. Maybe he doesn't need or want an extravagant lifestyle. Yet, he has fallen for someone who makes way more money then him. Should HE dump you because YOU want to be more career forcused than his ideal? It reminds me of the line from the 80s movie Pretty In Pink which was about a poor girl dating a rich boy...Molly Ringwald said, "If I hate him because he's got money then that's the exact same thing as them hating us because we don't." 

Look, I'm a weirdo that doesn't have my finances separate from my husband. We are a team. We both throw TONS of things into the family pot, with only some of that being money we have each made. Mostly we throw all the other ingredients that make a happy marriage and family into the pot. In my first marriage I made considerably more than my husband did. We both worked full time, but because of my profession I made more. So what? My XH still worked hard for our family and helped with all the other aspects of life. There are SO much more important things to me in life than money. 

Only you have the answer to your own question. Part of me hears that you have been somewhat conditioned by your parents that because you make bank guys are going to sponge off of you. That attitude is most likely going to set every relationship with anyone who doesn't make more than you up for failure. So if a persons drive and paycheck are the most important quality in a husband for you (which is fine, we all have our preferences) then stop dating below your pay grade.


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

This man sounds like a deadbeat freeloader. Listen to your father's advice -- find a man who has his **** together.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Spicy said:


> I'm curious about all the rest of this relationship. If money is the end all be all for you, then yeah, dump him. If he is a wonderful man, loves you, treats you great, is loyal, faithful, has a great sense of humor, same interests in other areas in life (outside of career), is a loving father, sexual match etc...at what point does someone not having nearly all the same work standards as you get kind of ridiculous?
> 
> The things you listed that I didn't like were not that he works in a warehouse, or that he isn't gung-ho for a degree and to change careers. It was the smoking and drinking and not helping with the kids etc. That's the stuff I would be hung up on. Yet, those are things that can be addressed and changed. Maybe he is sick to death of school. Maybe he doesn't need or want an extravagant lifestyle. Yet, he has fallen for someone who makes way more money then him. Should HE dump you because YOU want to be more career forcused than his ideal? It reminds me of the line from the 80s movie Pretty In Pink which was about a poor girl dating a rich boy...Molly Ringwald said, "If I hate him because he's got money then that's the exact same thing as them hating us because we don't."
> 
> ...


I agree with you to a certain extent,the money shouldn't really be that important as long as someone is earning.The op's problem is that if for any reason she can't earn,pregnancy,illness etc then she doesn't feel her boyfriend will step forward and man up.And she has good reason to feel this way.
If as you say he doesn't want to live an extravagant lifestyle then where is all this talk about having a big house and garden where he can grow veg and also buy a "big truck".Who is supposed to pay for this house and truck if the op doesn't.

By the way if you think your family finances are weird you should have met mine lol.My dad felt that by mom agreeing to marry him then it was up to him to support her and if she chose to work then her income was strictly her own to spend as she liked.Bear in mind my mom was a university lecturer so her salary wasn't exactly minimum wage.When I started dating he always made sure I paid for the dates and thought it was a disgrace for any girl to pay on a night out.
His favourite saying to me and my older brother when we were going on a date was there are two things a girl doesn't touch on a date,her pocketbook or the door.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

He's got a proven track record of not taking care of school business or keeping a good job.

That's not going to change.

You have either got to get used to carrying the load, or leave the load.

How old is he? If he's 40 and was living with his sister with no job, that's a pretty good indication of things to come.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Andy1001 said:


> His favourite saying to me and my older brother when we were going on a date was there are two things a girl doesn't touch on a date,her pocketbook or the door.


I like your dad...and you...all good points to ponder my friend.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Here is what makes it hard, you really care for this man, you are attracted to this man to the point that you will bypass the warning signs of what you think might not be good, knowing perhaps that you have given too much without anything in return. With that being said, how do you turn off the love and head out on your own? You think you can do it? Much of your story sounds very familiar to me. I am an outsider looking in and my thoughts are that you need to leave this man and not just because he has no ambition to be more than he is. His drinking habits are not going to go away. He sounds very self centered and focused on his interests to a point of not caring properly for his children. My ex was the same way. All I was to him was someone to care for his children, take care of the house, cook and clean but there was a disconnect beyond that. If you are looking for a connection emotionally, this is not the guy. He is not available to you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The important word that came up is team. You're not seeing a team. You THOUGHT you were going to be a team and, time after time, he has disappointed you. It's not the money, it's not the drive. It's the selfishness and willingness to use you and not contribute.

I was talking to my DD27 this morning. She's engaged. Her guy is a 3D artist so he's got a very narrow work availability where we live. He's done freelance and now he's in an office. DD27 just got her masters and will be going for her PhD in a few years. She told me she knows herself and she will NOT be a SAHM; she needs the work environment. Her guy is the opposite; he'd love to work from home. So they figure if she's going to earn enough money, why not let him do freelance from home and be there for the babies?

But this is something they are both AGREEING on. It's a team decision. That's what you're missing in your relationship. And if it's this bad at the start, your supposed honeymoon period, it will only get worse.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

@dimefitness After reading your posts, it seems to me that you think you might be the problem in the relationship because that is what your boyfriend is telling you. He probably believes it too. But you aren't the problem in your relationship. The desires, concerns, and expectations you have expressed here are not unreasonable, but the things you have told us about your boyfriend are deeply concerning.



dimefitness said:


> I also wanted a partner who is willing to help me with housework and cooking as I am not looking to be a traditional house wife. I don't believe in that logic.


A partner doesn’t help around the house. A partner is someone who shares in the duties and takes personal responsibility. Your boyfriend isn’t a partner or he would already be doing this either because it comes naturally to him or because he would recognize his responsibility when you spoke to him about it and he would step up and do his part. He hasn’t done that, so you know already what the future looks like.

This is not your fault. It doesn’t matter that you used to pay for everything. That’s not what caused this situation.

Your boyfriend has shown you his character. Believe him.

You and your boyfriend do not have similar goals or a similar vision for the future. Your core values don’t match. That is a recipe for disaster and will become horrible once you have children.

Your boyfriend also uses emotional abuse techniques to get you in line. He blame shifts and makes you feel guilty for speaking out against his bad behavior. He doesn’t really listen to you to the point that he is angry when you speak your mind, angry when you write it down, and then insists you paraphrase your concerns. If this man isn’t willing to listen to and respond to your concerns now, he isn’t going to do it later. It will likely get worse once he thinks he’s got you roped in.

I don’t know you and I don’t know this man, but this sounds like a classic example of a man who quits his job after the honeymoon, demands children, and expects his wife to do everything from financially supporting the family to taking care of the home and children. If you were my daughter, I’d tell you to run for the hills as quickly as possible. When is your lease up?

Cut your losses, don’t sink anything more into this disaster of a relationship.




dimefitness said:


> He is very intelligent and we talk about politics, life, and everything. This is why I don't understand why he doesn't want to finish school anymore or challenge himself at work.


Because he's lazy. He's shown you that already. He doesn't even take responsibility for his own children for goodness sake. That is laziness and lack of concern for his own flesh and blood. That is the sign of a truly inconsiderate and thoughtless person. Not everyone who isn't ambitious is lazy, but based on the other things you've said about him, that would be my educated guess.

He's already shown you what kind of rotten dad he is and you are considering marrying and having children with him! You are hoping for something that is not going to happen with this man. You are not out of line in thinking that you deserve more than this. Your future children deserve a better dad.

Behavior comes from what we believe in our hearts. If your boyfriend cared about having a close, loving, interactive relationship with his children, he would show that through his actions, but he doesn't. Any change in that area would have to come from a change in his heart. What makes you think he would treat your children any better than he does the children he already has?



dimefitness said:


> We did make this change recently it was just the comments afterwards that made me upset. Him saying he would never make that much and had no desire to. So basically for the rest of our lives together I would be paying 3, 4, or even 5 times more on everything.


This makes no sense to me at all. When you get married, in most states, everything you have between you belongs to both of you. If you have this division type mentality marriage to someone who makes less than you will never work out, especially when it's the wife making more money. Overall, men and women view this differently. The vast majority of situations where a woman makes significantly more than a man, the relationship doesn't work out. In some cases it does work, but you have shown no indication that your relationship would be the exception.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

dimefitness said:


> Wow! That sounds a little worse. My SO only has about 2 more years to finish his bachelor's and we split the bills just not equally. *A few months ago he tried to go back to college but now he's saying he doesn't want to try again.* I'm not sure what the deal is hopefully it's temporary.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


A good technical degree nowadays is hard work and the course work is challenging. 

How are his math skills?

He may want to change majors. Not everybody is cut out for science and engineering.
How about a Business Major? Then get an MBA.

Does he have the gift for the gab?....maybe later get in Sales.


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

SunCMars said:


> A good technical degree nowadays is hard work and the course work is challenging.
> 
> How are his math skills?
> 
> ...


I believe his major was business but he had a full football scholarship at the time. I am not sure if he changed it when he went back to school or not. His math skills seem fine to me but I have expressed to him that I don't think IT is good for him as you have to constantly learn to stay current with technology and certifications to move up. He had to stop school before and they won't take him back so I figure he is just frustrated and doesn't want to go through the process again.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

turnera said:


> The important word that came up is team. You're not seeing a team. You THOUGHT you were going to be a team and, time after time, he has disappointed you. It's not the money, it's not the drive. It's the selfishness and willingness to use you and not contribute.
> 
> I was talking to my DD27 this morning. She's engaged. Her guy is a 3D artist so he's got a very narrow work availability where we live. He's done freelance and now he's in an office. DD27 just got her masters and will be going for her PhD in a few years. She told me she knows herself and she will NOT be a SAHM; she needs the work environment. Her guy is the opposite; he'd love to work from home. So they figure if she's going to earn enough money, why not let him do freelance from home and be there for the babies?
> 
> But this is something they are both AGREEING on. It's a team decision. That's what you're missing in your relationship. And if it's this bad at the start, your supposed honeymoon period, it will only get worse.


I also do not want to be a SAHM. That's not my cup of tea. I'm a but OCD so I like the house cleaned a certain way and tings put a certain way so I normally do them myself. If it makes any difference but ... I have no siblings and I was not taught how to share. I had to learn that on my own. And when in school during team or group assignments I never trusted that my counterparts would do what they were supposed to so I did most of the work myself or edited it to my liking. 

However yes I want a TEAM environment as this is what we discussed many of times before. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

QFT.

DING DING DING! We have a winner, GREAT post! 



turnera said:


> The important word that came up is team. You're not seeing a team. You THOUGHT you were going to be a team and, time after time, he has disappointed you. It's not the money, it's not the drive. It's the selfishness and willingness to use you and not contribute.
> 
> I was talking to my DD27 this morning. She's engaged. Her guy is a 3D artist so he's got a very narrow work availability where we live. He's done freelance and now he's in an office. DD27 just got her masters and will be going for her PhD in a few years. She told me she knows herself and she will NOT be a SAHM; she needs the work environment. Her guy is the opposite; he'd love to work from home. So they figure if she's going to earn enough money, why not let him do freelance from home and be there for the babies?
> 
> But this is something they are both AGREEING on. It's a team decision. That's what you're missing in your relationship. And if it's this bad at the start, your supposed honeymoon period, it will only get worse.


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

Evinrude58 said:


> He's got a proven track record of not taking care of school business or keeping a good job.
> 
> That's not going to change.
> 
> ...


Well I wish it were that easy to diagnose but before he moved he worked at another warehouse making a lot more money. He was there for well over 2 years. He had his own apartment with his son. And he was even looking to take CDL courses after moving. He was on track to finishing school with only 2 years left but then ... BAM! Complete attitude change within a 2 month period. This is why I thought I was the issue. That somehow I enabled him. (This happened with my ex)

And he is only 30 years old and I am 29. We were both living with family when we met since we both moved out of state to GA around the same time. 

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

Andy1001 said:


> I agree with you to a certain extent,the money shouldn't really be that important as long as someone is earning.The op's problem is that if for any reason she can't earn,pregnancy,illness etc then she doesn't feel her boyfriend will step forward and man up.And she has good reason to feel this way.
> If as you say he doesn't want to live an extravagant lifestyle then where is all this talk about having a big house and garden where he can grow veg and also buy a "big truck".Who is supposed to pay for this house and truck if the op doesn't.


This is correct! I am not sure if he has the drive to step it up when I am in need of his help. And what I gathered is that he would buy the truck with his own money but if he doesn't make much he would be taking from other priorities/bills so in turn I would have to pick up the slack.



Andy1001 said:


> By the way if you think your family finances are weird you should have met mine lol.My dad felt that by mom agreeing to marry him then it was up to him to support her and if she chose to work then her income was strictly her own to spend as she liked.Bear in mind my mom was a university lecturer so her salary wasn't exactly minimum wage.When I started dating he always made sure I paid for the dates and thought it was a disgrace for any girl to pay on a night out.
> His favourite saying to me and my older brother when we were going on a date was there are two things a girl doesn't touch on a date,her pocketbook or the door.


And my dad said that I should find a guy whow will bring home his check and hand it to me. And I should pay the household bills and give him a weekly allowance. I guess that is how my parents operate. Not sure if I totally agree.


Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

dimefitness said:


> I believe his major was business but he had a full football scholarship at the time. I am not sure if he changed it when he went back to school or not. His math skills seem fine to me but I have expressed to him that I don't think IT is good for him as you have to constantly learn to stay current with technology and certifications to move up. He had to stop school before and they won't take him back so I figure he is just frustrated and doesn't want to go through the process again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


Yes, that is the problem.

He will have to apply at another school, may be put on academic watch or probation for a semester or so. Until he proves himself.
Or the school was ticked off because he dropped out and is punishing him!!

Plus, dagnabbit! You lose a lot of credits every time you switch schools.

Being two years in, he should not lose too much time and credit.

Keep pushing him.


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

dimefitness said:


> This is correct! I am not sure if he has the drive to step it up when I am in need of his help. And what I gathered is that he would buy the truck with his own money but if he doesn't make much he would be taking from other priorities/bills so in turn I would have to pick up the slack.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My dad wouldn't have gone that far,he was nobody's doormat.He had his opinion about how a man should treat his wife or girlfriend and he stuck to it.He was wealthy but other than paying my first years rent when I moved out at sixteen neither me or my brother ever got (or needed) any handouts from him.
I think by the sound of your latest posts you are beginning to see what this man is bringing and not bringing to your relationship,if you stop paying for everything how long do you think he would hang around?He seems to look on you as a safety net,if his business is not immediately successful then you get to pay for his mistakes.Be very careful with him,he may rack up considerable debt and use your good nature to pay it off.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

dimefitness said:


> I also do not want to be a SAHM. That's not my cup of tea. I'm a but OCD so I like the house cleaned a certain way and tings put a certain way so I normally do them myself. If it makes any difference but ... I have no siblings and I was not taught how to share. I had to learn that on my own. And when in school during team or group assignments I never trusted that my counterparts would do what they were supposed to so I did most of the work myself or edited it to my liking.
> 
> However yes I want a TEAM environment as this is what we discussed many of times before.


This isn't about sharing. It's about fairness and resentment. If you were single with kids, you WOULD be doing everything. BUT, if you are married, you are equals; therefore, everything in your life is BOTH of your responsibilities. So you could try to do everything yourself - kids, work, house. But if you're doing everything, *why is he even there*?

Think about it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

dimefitness said:


> only 2 years left but then ... BAM! Complete attitude change within a 2 month period. This is why I thought I was the issue. That somehow I enabled him. (This happened with my ex)


So he changed AFTER you two started dating?

And what did you do to change your propensity to enable men? Therapy? Books?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

I know this...'

And I am fearful of getting in the weeds...poison ivy, to be exact.

He has given up. Society [in his mind] has left him behind...broken him.

I believe this is a cultural phenomenon with a racial component.

There are just not enough good men for talented women. For all talented women.
Talented women intimidate some men.

Women in high places often have to settle...... down.
A handsome man with few viable life skills.

God, I hope I have not offended you.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

SunCMars said:


> Yes, that is the problem.
> 
> He will have to apply at another school, may be put on academic watch or probation for a semester or so. Until he proves himself.
> Or the school was ticked off because he dropped out and is punishing him!!
> ...


It's also possible he waited too long. My DD27's friend was one semester away from graduating when she had a breakdown and quit. By the time she considered going back, years later, the classes would no longer count. I think they only gave her 4 years to return.

Sun, you're making a lot of excuses for him, as though he's a victim. But how do you account for letting her do all the housework and take care of HIS OWN KIDS? Is that just being sexist? Or is it being selfish?


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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

Spicy said:


> I'm curious about all the rest of this relationship. If money is the end all be all for you, then yeah, dump him. If he is a wonderful man, loves you, treats you great, is loyal, faithful, has a great sense of humor, same interests in other areas in life (outside of career), is a loving father, sexual match etc...at what point does someone not having nearly all the same work standards as you get kind of ridiculous?


No money is not the problem for me it's the drive and ambition. The lack of goals to not want more. He does love me from what I can tell. He is faithful. He is a loving father outside of his laziness this summer. I realized that situation was another issue that I may post about later. And he is a sexual match.



Spicy said:


> The things you listed that I didn't like were not that he works in a warehouse, or that he isn't gung-ho for a degree and to change careers. It was the smoking and drinking and not helping with the kids etc. That's the stuff I would be hung up on. Yet, those are things that can be addressed and changed. Maybe he is sick to death of school. Maybe he doesn't need or want an extravagant lifestyle. Yet, he has fallen for someone who makes way more money then him. Should HE dump you because YOU want to be more career forcused than his ideal? It reminds me of the line from the 80s movie Pretty In Pink which was about a poor girl dating a rich boy...Molly Ringwald said, "If I hate him because he's got money then that's the exact same thing as them hating us because we don't."


Yes we have had a few arguments about the kids and the smoking and drinking. He has admitted that he has a problem and he is trying to slow down. Only drinking on the weekends and smoking less. His kids do not live with us. They live in another state with their mother and her husband. I have stated that when his kids visit it even live with us in the future he will have to take care of them more than he did this summer. He was upset but he got my point. 

And I wouldn't go as far as to say he doesn't want an extravagant lifestyle. He definitely does he just doesn't want to do what it takes to get it on his own accord. He is too reliant on my career. He makes enough money to contribute fairly (not equally) at the time but once I make a job change I will be making 4x more and in his mind it's not fair to pay the same amount as me in household bills when he still has to save up for his own seperate things. However if he were living alone he would have to pay that or even more.



Spicy said:


> Look, I'm a weirdo that doesn't have my finances separate from my husband. We are a team. We both throw TONS of things into the family pot, with only some of that being money we have each made. Mostly we throw all the other ingredients that make a happy marriage and family into the pot. In my first marriage I made considerably more than my husband did. We both worked full time, but because of my profession I made more. So what? My XH still worked hard for our family and helped with all the other aspects of life. There are SO much more important things to me in life than money.


I have been in plenty of relationships. My very last one was also with someone who didn't make as much as I did but his mindset was that if he lived there he would pay what he could and he would not take me out unless he paid for it. In a relationship where the guy was also in IT and made a lot more than me. We paid for everything 50/50 but we didn't live together. I eventually left him because of his horrible attitude. Money is not the most important thing but I do not want to feel like I am being used.



Spicy said:


> Only you have the answer to your own question. Part of me hears that you have been somewhat conditioned by your parents that because you make bank guys are going to sponge off of you. That attitude is most likely going to set every relationship with anyone who doesn't make more than you up for failure. So if a persons drive and paycheck are the most important quality in a husband for you (which is fine, we all have our preferences) then stop dating below your pay grade.


Paycheck is not the most important. I was fine with our arrangement before. However he made those statements making me question his motives. He has never expressed that before. If the tables were turned and I made the statements he made I would be deemed as a gold digger or a bum.

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## dimefitness (Sep 22, 2017)

CynthiaDe said:


> After reading your posts, it seems to me that you think you might be the problem in the relationship because that is what your boyfriend is telling you. He probably believes it too. But you aren't the problem in your relationship. The desires, concerns, and expectations you have expressed here are not unreasonable, but the things you have told us about your boyfriend are deeply concerning.
> 
> A partner doesn’t help around the house. A partner is someone who shares in the duties and takes personal responsibility. Your boyfriend isn’t a partner or he would already be doing this either because it comes naturally to him or because he would recognize his responsibility when you spoke to him about it and he would step up and do his part. He hasn’t done that, so you know already what the future looks like.
> 
> This is not your fault. It doesn’t matter that you used to pay for everything. That’s not what caused this situation.


I didn't think it was just the paying for everything but the fact that I initially cleaned everything and did house work myself. So that when I asked for him to help he didn't think it was necessary since I was going to do it anyway. This is what upset me as well. 



CynthiaDe said:


> You and your boyfriend do not have similar goals or a similar vision for the future. Your core values don’t match. That is a recipe for disaster and will become horrible once you have children.
> 
> Your boyfriend also uses emotional abuse techniques to get you in line. He blame shifts and makes you feel guilty for speaking out against his bad behavior. He doesn’t really listen to you to the point that he is angry when you speak your mind, angry when you write it down, and then insists you paraphrase your concerns. If this man isn’t willing to listen to and respond to your concerns now, he isn’t going to do it later. It will likely get worse once he thinks he’s got you roped in.
> 
> ...


Hopefully this is not the case. I have 7 months until the lease is up but he can leave anytime. I am not tied to him with anything financially.



CynthiaDe said:


> Because he's lazy. He's shown you that already. He doesn't even take responsibility for his own children for goodness sake. That is laziness and lack of concern for his own flesh and blood. That is the sign of a truly inconsiderate and thoughtless person. Not everyone who isn't ambitious is lazy, but based on the other things you've said about him, that would be my educated guess.
> 
> He's already shown you what kind of rotten dad he is and you are considering marrying and having children with him! You are hoping for something that is not going to happen with this man. You are not out of line in thinking that you deserve more than this. Your future children deserve a better dad.
> 
> Behavior comes from what we believe in our hearts. If your boyfriend cared about having a close, loving, interactive relationship with his children, he would show that through his actions, but he doesn't. Any change in that area would have to come from a change in his heart. What makes you think he would treat your children any better than he does the children he already has?


The way he is with his kids is a lot different than how he is with them when I am around. That bothers me alot. I have expressed this to him and pardon me for not understanding the emotional ties to the subject as I do not have kids myself, but he doesn't want anyone to tell him about his kids not even their mother. We will have to revisit that issue later if I decide to continue with the relationship. He sends their mother money every other week. He calls them everyday and is making plans to get them on the holidays. When speaking with his kids over the summer it sounded like he used to cook for them, take them to parks, help with homework etc. I just don't get the switch up when I am around.

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## Emerging Buddhist (Apr 7, 2016)

You have some unspoken hurdles to overcome... the sudden change in financial "fairness" lets you know there is either a new expectation to deal with, or a hidden expectation that was not openly shared.

If new, it will be easier to work through... if old, it will be hard to understand what other "truths" are bringing hidden resentments to light and will affect trust.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

dimefitness said:


> I didn't think it was just the paying for everything but the fact that I initially cleaned everything and did house work myself. So that when I asked for him to help he didn't think it was necessary since I was going to do it anyway. This is what upset me as well.


You took responsibility for keeping your home clean. When he saw that you would do it with or without his participation, he let you do it alone. That shows how he thinks. He thinks it's okay for you to do all the work. That includes taking care of his children. This isn't going to change unless he has a real change of heart, which would require something major to happen. People don't change unless they see a need to change. If it's working for him he will continue along these lines. I don't know why you would consider having children with a man like this. You seem to think your expectations are too high and you are the problem. I don't agree.



dimefitness said:


> Hopefully this is not the case. I have 7 months until the lease is up but he can leave anytime. I am not tied to him with anything financially.


If he is not on the lease you might still have trouble getting him to leave, because it is his home, especially if he has been contributing to the rent.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

> And my dad said that I should find a guy whow will bring home his check and hand it to me. And I should pay the household bills and give him a weekly allowance. I guess that is how my parents operate. Not sure if I totally agree.


You may find it difficult to find a man that fits into all of your requirements and those ideals of your parents too. 



> I was fine with our arrangement before. However he made those statements making me question his motives. He has never expressed that before. If the tables were turned and I made the statements he made I would be deemed as a gold digger or a bum.


In turn, if you decide to end a relationship that you were satisfied with because of a couple of comments about what he *might* do if you were married and making four times him, then you are probably not a match either. If my spouse and I were entertaining the same thing I would be making some pretty funny comments too about how I was going to spend the money. You said he has never said this any other time. So is all of his history with you, and who he is as a person is tossed out from a couple of comments? I dunno, seems extreme to me. I would take them into consideration for sure, but I wouldn't throw away an otherwise great relationship based on rogue comments.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

dimefitness said:


> The way he is with his kids is a lot different than how he is with them when I am around. That bothers me alot. I have expressed this to him and pardon me for not understanding the emotional ties to the subject as I do not have kids myself, but he doesn't want anyone to tell him about his kids not even their mother. We will have to revisit that issue later if I decide to continue with the relationship. He sends their mother money every other week. He calls them everyday and is making plans to get them on the holidays. When speaking with his kids over the summer it sounded like he used to cook for them, take them to parks, help with homework etc. I just don't get the switch up when I am around.


When my son was 10 I married a guy who had 100% custody of his 2 children, daughter 10, son 12. One of the things that I loved about him was that he was an incredible father. His ex had walked out on him and the children 3 years before that so he did everything.. worked full time, coached their sports, cooked, helped them with homework, took them clothes shopping, threw them birthday parties, and on and on.

The day after, yes the day after we married in all moved in together, the super dad thing ended. He hardly did anything for them or with them from that day on. He dumped it all on me. 

I also thought that he had goals and ambitions, after all he was earning 6 figures. But then after 9/11 IBM laid off thousands of workers world wide. He was laid off. And did not really look for a job after that. After all I too earned 6 figures, so I guess he thought that we were ok with just my income. He did help to support us, did not take any responsibility for housework, cooking, shopping or even his own kids. I ended up with 100% of the responsibility. 

His kids had already had their mother walk out on them. Then he moved them to my state when we married. I just could not throw them out with him. So I waited until his two kids graduated from high school. Then I divorced him. His kids comment's on it were that it was about time. His two kids are still 'my kids'. They don't care all that much about their father.

When I read your posts, I see a younger version of my ex.

Like my ex, it sounds like your bf does what he needs to do when he's the only one there to do it. But when there is a woman around, it's the woman's job in his mind. And you are the woman who he will push all responsibility on to include his own children.

Your bf is a better person without you. It's not that you bring out the bad in him. It's that he's a person who will push all of his responsibilities onto the woman in his life.

Again, he's a better person without because he's not a good partner. This is not a reflection on you. You did not cause him to do what he's doing now. You are just seeing a different side of him.. the side that you can only see if you are in a relationship with him.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

dimefitness said:


> I believe his major was business but he had a full football scholarship at the time. I am not sure if he changed it when he went back to school or not. His math skills seem fine to me but I have expressed to him that I don't think IT is good for him as you have to constantly learn to stay current with technology and certifications to move up. He had to stop school before and they won't take him back so I figure he is just frustrated and doesn't want to go through the process again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk


He's not your equal. He's a petulant, self-entitled, lazy ass teenage kid you're CONSTANTLY going to have to light a fire under in order to get him to do anything. Even then, it won't be done to the best of his ability.

_You're_ his meal ticket, now.

Just wait until you have kids. I can guarantee you he'll jump at the chance to stay home with them and let you support the family. And I'm ALSO willing to bet he'll continue to expect YOU to do all the housework when you get home after work, too.

What a complete loser.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

As Ele's post said so well, he is just not a good partner. Those people often do very well on their own but not when they're in a relationship. Then they expect their partner to do it all. I was married for decades to a man who expected me to do it all because his career was more demanding than mine. And I did do it all -- 100%. But over time the resentment slowly strangled me. Believe me, that's not a life you want to live.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

turnera said:


> It's also possible he waited too long. My DD27's friend was one semester away from graduating when she had a breakdown and quit. By the time she considered going back, years later, the classes would no longer count. I think they only gave her 4 years to return.
> 
> Sun, you're making a lot of excuses for him, as though he's a victim. But how do you account for letting her do all the housework and take care of HIS OWN KIDS? Is that just being sexist? Or is it being selfish?


I agree, he is not pulling his own weight. He is relatively young and has given up already.

I chose not to pile on. Why? For personal reasons. Life has beaten him down. Turning to drinking, smoking..mildly destructive behavior.

He has plenty of detractors here. He needs some life tips. But he is not here to listen, unfortunately.


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