# Rugsweeping after effects



## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

I feel a bit guilty/self indulgent even posting about this. There are a lot of people suffering from ongoing issues and I hate to distract from that. 

My wife and I have been married for 10 going on 11 years. We have a 7 yr old son. We are mostly happy. We deal with the normal stresses of a marriage with children. 

9 years ago I found a text message on my wife's phone (isn't that the way it goes?). It was from her "friend" that she worked with (how cliche'). He said a few things that were kinda familiar such as "thinking of you" and one time he said "I want to hold you". My heart froze. I immediately confronted her. Told her not to front that I knew she was cheating on me. 

Side note: This guy is 15 yrs older than and her straight up ugly. That's not a subjective statement. There is nobody that would find him attractive (except maybe my wife). Without any measure of vanity I can honestly say I am much better looking than him. Also he is a known habitual liar. He told tall tales all the time. So far fetched I felt embarrassed for him. I never imagined my wife would have an affair with him. It was beyond all possibilities. 

Back to the story... She admitted to an EA and that she had let him kiss her once. (yeah right). I desperately wanted to believe that, don't we all in those moments? They didn't spend much time around each other, usually at work. Their work environment didn't allow much privacy. There is a good chance that this IS all that happened...

I didn't have any support at the time. I didn't know what to do. She was too embarrassed and hateful at the time to show true remorse. She immediately went into the "I don't know if we should stay together" mode. From D day I was thrown into the role as the one trying to save our marriage and honestly I was more motivated by pride than love. 

I didn't know about the 180. I didn't have enough support to call her bluff. In hindsight I know for sure she would have backed down but I showed too much weakness. She had no reason to work hard to reconcile. They continued to work together for 2 more weeks. I made life pretty miserable for him thru some indirect threats and other methods. (too many to go into). My wife said I was causing her problems by picking her up from work. She worked in a coffee shop so it's not like I was going into an office environment. She asked me to stop coming by. It was the last straw. I told her I hope she was happy with him and to eff off. She immediately started crying and from that moment onward she worked very hard to reconcile.

But I was never satisfied that I knew everything that happened. My questioning was relentless. She didn't trickle truth. She stayed on point. The only additional info I got was why it happened. He gave her attention and praise. (of course)

For 3 or 4 years I interrogated her often. I just couldn't leave it alone. After awhile I realized I wasn't getting anywhere and it only served to emotionally beat her up. I could tell the pain I was causing her and I just stopped. It wasn't productive. 

However 9 years later I still wrestle with these questions. Sometimes I look at her and just want her to drop dead. She's a good wife but I still get triggered. Most of all I resent her for making me try to "win her back" when I was the one who had been wronged. If I had had TAM back then I know things would have gone differently. I wouldn't have confronted her until I got the full story. I would have went dark and made her examine herself instead of blaming myself. I don't know what I could do to improve the situation. I think I'm just dealing with the natural consequences of "rugsweeping". 

Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks for reading.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

If you are sure nothing else has happened since then, it's time to let IT go, or let HER go. You can reopen the incident, and try to get more, but after all this time and with no more evidence, you may succeed only in destroying your marriage - if you want to preserve it, which isn't at all obvious.


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

I never like to be the guy that gives the first opinion......but I got to be that guy. The way you approached, good for you, don't be fed crap and tell me it's apple pie. You do what you have to do, to get to the bottom of it. Make her crack. She left doubt in your mind and to trust her would have to take a whole lot. By your description I don't think you rugswept, I think you got to the point where what you were doing was borderline aggressive. I won't say abusive, but aggressive. In the future you know the signs and she knows you won't stand for being played. Sidenote, they always go ugly. Cheers.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> I feel a bit guilty/self indulgent even posting about this. There are a lot of people suffering from ongoing issues and I hate to distract from that.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 10 going on 11 years. We have a 7 yr old son. We are mostly happy. We deal with the normal stresses of a marriage with children.
> 
> ...


I too wrestled for years with uncertainty over my W's EA that might have been also a PA, and also wish I had the benefit of TAM. But....

Do you have reason to think there was anything before your wife's affair or since DDay? Was this a one-time deal? Aside from the triggering, she has been a good partner, right? If so, maybe after so many years you can consider her a "good risk" (in wazza's apt terminology). Maybe she has told you all there is to tell. 

Do you love her?


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

Im as positive as a person can be that it ended then. Shes never exhibited any behavior since that would make me think otherwise. My problem is my problem. Its so hard to let it go. 

I love my wife...id lay my life down for her. Shes a great mom and makes a great home but 1% of the time I almost hate her. And after all this time and the years of love and commitment I feel like a dog for feeling this way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

A note on the attractiveness thing, my WS's xOW wasn't that great looking either, also a big liar. I've got some years on her but still attractive (in my 40's but most think I'm in my early 30's), and I'm honest and straightforward. I wouldn't say the xOW was straight up ugly but I was surprised when I found out how plain she really was. However, at the time, she picked up on the fact he'd allowed himself to be vulnerable and she played into that, and it worked. It worked because she was willing and he allowed it, they both wanted it and acted on that. The OP isn't always the stud/"studdess" we imagine they would have to be to catch our WS's eye enough to risk the marriage. Often times it seems they affair down.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> Im as positive as a person can be that it ended then. Shes never exhibited any behavior since that would make me think otherwise. My problem is my problem. Its so hard to let it go.
> 
> I love my wife...id lay my life down for her. Shes a great mom and makes a great home but 1% of the time I almost hate her. And after all this time and the years of love and commitment I feel like a dog for feeling this way.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No need to feel like a dog: You got sliced and diced and haven't fully recovered (may never do so). You both sound like you have the same goal and mutual good will, though. Maybe IC would help you let it go?


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## rrrbbbttt (Apr 6, 2011)

It is the problem of not addressing it at the time. Many on here dealt with it as you did, being the "Nice" guy. That unfortunately is the Time Bomb. You never got remorse the WS never did the heavy lifting to help you and you were never fully healed. Ergo the time bomb goes off every so often.

Some say it was so long ago to "Let it Go"

That for many is easier said then done, why, because the person you took a vow with and who you gave your full trust to took that trust and stamped on it. They disrespected you and did something to you that you would never do.

That disrespect will always be there and that lack of trust will always be in your mind.

Do you open yourself up again to be disrespected and betrayed? Your choice.

As some have said the Triggers lessen over time but they never fully go away.

Prior to use of the TAM guides, I do not think the BS does fully get it because the proper tools were not used in the "R" and you were the "Nice" guy who put it all back together.


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

The timeline you describe seems awfully close to the birth of your son. They almost always affair down. Why would she let him kiss her and nothing more? Do you honestly think that you have the full story?


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

bryanp said:


> The timeline you describe seems awfully close to the birth of your son. They almost always affair down. Why would she let him kiss her and nothing more? Do you honestly think that you have the full story?


No I dont think I have the full story and I dont think I will find out anymore without causing serious drama almost a decade after the fact. Thats my quandary. 

The guy was out of the picture for around two years by the time my son came along. After d day she gave me full access to her phone and email. Im not so flippant to think its impossible she used another email address but it seemed unlikely. She never went out without me and definitely not after d day. 

Im certain I dont know everything but id bet dollars to nickels the affair ended there
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

This was also before the age of AffairBook (Facebook) and she was never really that tech savvy to use IM but maybe...


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

Time to DNA test the kid and schedule a polygraph test for your WW.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

So about a year before she got pregnant you found evidence of her straying from your marriage. Based on your time line it would have been about 1 year into your marriage, maybe going on two.

I would paternity test the child. It is cheap, easy, painless, private and she doesn't need to participate. Google paternity testing and you'll have several option. You should be able to do it for around a hundred bucks or slightly less.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

FWIW, I do not define an EA as kissing. That makes it physical.

Also, cheater speak for we kissed once usually means much more than that.


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## Will_Kane (Feb 26, 2012)

You should be able to share your feelings with your wife.

I don't know if you ever tell her that you love her so much that you would lay down your life for her, but if you don't, I'm sure she wouldn't mind hearing about it.

She probably won't like to hear that you feel you never got the full truth, but it can't hurt to tell her and see what happens.

Just give her the full picture, the love you feel and the hurt you feel, not just the hurt.

I sense that no matter what she told you now, no matter how bad her affair was, that it wouldn't make you leave her. If that is the case, and if when you bring it up again she sticks to the same story, why don't you just make up a story that seems right to you based on what you know, and live with that as the truth your wife is either too embarrassed or too afraid to tell you?

I am usually not one for living in fantasy, but some things we cannot change, we must live with, and your wife already has re-built your trust and re-proved her faithfulness, so dwelling on the details of the affair from that long ago is just not productive.

You have every right to know the truth. But there is a good chance your wife is too afraid or too ashamed to admit anything else and, even if she did, it wouldn't really change anything for you at this point.

I suppose if it really bothered you enough, you could ask her to take a polygraph, but what would be the result from that? 

What would you do if the test indicated she was telling the truth? 

If the test indicated she was lying? 

If she told you in the parking lot outside the test site that she actually slept with other man a few times?


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## JadedHusband (Aug 17, 2013)

Im not totally against a polygraph but it would seem a bit obsessive to do that after all this time. There are no doubts about whether the child is mine. That situation had been over long before then and he looks exactly like me. People often joke whether my wife is the real mom bc he looks like a mini me lol



I dont know how I would go about asking her to do a polygraph after 9 years. I think that might put me in a bad light. 

I guess I could try IC again. The last time I tried that was with a therapist who also did a MC session. She suggested I take medication if I was still hung up on it. I disagreed
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> Side note: This guy is 15 yrs older than and her *straight up ugly*.


Irrelevant. The way to a woman's heart/pants is through her brain. He may not be good looking but if he can chat up women then his looks have no bearing.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Tis your sub--conscious---it wants to fill in the blanks, you don't have the real and complete story---so your sub--conscious is imagining

Sad to say---this can bother you the rest of your life---it goes with the territory

You might try to find a IC, who specializes in dealing with the sub--conscious, and things you can do, when the spectre of her A, rises up in your mind


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

JadedHusband said:


> Im not totally against a polygraph but it would seem a bit obsessive to do that after all this time. There are no doubts about whether the child is mine. That situation had been over long before then and he looks exactly like me. People often joke whether my wife is the real mom bc he looks like a mini me lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dumba$$ therapist.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

The reality is, affairs never go away between two people.

~sammy


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

JadedHusband said:


> Most of all I resent her for making me try to "win her back" when I was the one who had been wronged..


That’s when my wife lost me emotionally. It’s something I do continue to resent her for, but it’s also more than that.... I loathe myself for actually trying to win her back. I am ashamed of myself. I severely let myself down when challenged. I’m still not quite able to forgive myself, but have gotten to the point where I can at least understand and accept my actions and take ownership of them: I rugswept, I made excuses for her, and I begged and groveled to get just the basic elements of a relationship out of her. I am ashamed I settled for so little in return. So I worked hard on myself to change those things about me. It helped a lot. I did it through No More Mr Nice Guy and Living with the Liar as well as some cues from Walking on Eggshells.

At the same time, I also reflect at how far the relationship and I have come since then. There is a lot of progress on both fronts. So, it’s easier to accept the old me was weak... just that much further to grow and rediscover my pride in myself at that progress. 

However, as part of that is also the acceptance that my WW took advantage of this weakness for her own gain. Hence the losing me emotionally. She watches out for herself and pounces on weakness; I do the same now. “Her and I”, not “us”. It’s the acceptance of this truth that hurts a lot. I didn’t want to let go of the fantasy that our marriage was more than just two individuals watching out for themselves and taking what they can out of this co-venture. She is also judged on her progress. There is a lot, but it still remains to be seen whether it will be enough.


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## lostmyreligion (Oct 18, 2013)

Jaded, 6 years ago my wife had an affair with the neighbor. She literally jumped over the fence when I was asleep, got drunk(er) with him and they "kissed".

1 time... and it was really gross... and she was instantly ashamed...and she came right home...and she didn't want to wake me up...and...and...

Yeah right.:rofl:

That's all she's ever admitted to. There was a parade's worth of red flags and a hindsight eyefull of damning circumstantial evidence that's easy now to see for what it was - the consumation of an EA into a PA that went on for at least another year.

Long story short - that and another, later (suspected) ONS incident pushed me into what I now recognize as a 180. We moved and I theatened D.

Like you, If I'd had TAM at the time, there wouldn’t have been any rugsweeping and things would have have gone very differently. Such as it was, she responded by effectively dealing with some serious exacerbating mommy/daddy issues, almost quit drinking (just social now and always with me) and has since become the wife and friend I've always wanted her to be. 

I established boundaries, have become hyper-vigilant and again, like you, know with 99.99% certainty that she fully respects them.

The problem is that remaing 0.01%. It's the lies we both know are still there. Like hydrogen sulfide gas. They permeate the relationship, smell like hell and if you're unprepared for any more that might leak out, are deadly - even in very small amounts.

So I've got a plan to clear the air. Might be something for you to consider as well. 

Next time I trigger, rather than launch into interrogation mode and get the same "I'm sorry I hurt you" crap replete with tears, I’ll calmly tell her how I’m feeling and hand her a modified and personalized version of the following letter that I found on TAM, then walk away and give her time to digest: 

_"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened during that weekend, and everything that happened afterwards.

I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't she know by now that I love her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important.

Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe your actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."_

I'd like to give credit to the original author but can't find the thread that I copied from. Maybe someone here on TAM can reference who first wrote it. Regardless, it’s brilliant, eloquent and says everything that I and perhaps you, have been unable to. 

And it demands an equally well thought out response.


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

JadedHusband said:


> I feel a bit guilty/self indulgent even posting about this. There are a lot of people suffering from ongoing issues and I hate to distract from that.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 10 going on 11 years. We have a 7 yr old son. We are mostly happy. We deal with the normal stresses of a marriage with children.
> 
> ...


Have you two tried MC with someone who's answer isn't to prescribe a solution LOL? Its hard to go the rest of your life with this much resentment.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

My advice,

1. Don't do the poly.
2. Find a way to let it go. 9 years is a long time to keep this going. 
3. Did you ever tell your wife, if I find out that it was a PA I will D you or leave you? I say this because if she knows if it was more and she told you, that she fears you will leave her.

After an A, whether EA or PA both sides have to work on the M if they decide on R. For the BS letting go and forgiveness are two components of R (long term).

Revisiting the A is not doing you any good.

I would say this though. There have been posters on TAM who found out years later (one was 6 years out and the other 10 years out), that their wives admitted that they did not have an EA, but that it was a PA. One wife said, "I know you are over this but do you remember when I told you 6 years ago that it was just an EA, well I want to say, we had sex 3 times. I know you are over it." He posted that he went to an attorney and D her. So 6 years, 10 years or whatever, if the truth is not revealed and is then later discovered in regards to the A, I am not sure if there is a time limit.


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## river rat (Jan 20, 2012)

Thorburn said:


> My advice,
> 
> 1. Don't do the poly.
> 2. Find a way to let it go. 9 years is a long time to keep this going.
> ...


 JH, I have traveled your road, as have many of us here, and it's a rough one. The fact is, the triggers will always be there, as they are with any life-altering trauma. The key is how you deal with them. I saw a cognitive therapist, who nudged me into meditation. I learned to control my response to the triggers. They no longer mean the same thing to me. I am able to look at them, and say to myself, "Yeah, I know what you are, and I will not be harmed by you." It took years to get there.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

Last night, my 8 year old daughter had a fever, and it made me cry. You see, she got a fever at 12 days old, which is a straight-to-the-ER emergency in a newborn. She was my first, and I'm sure you can imagine how awful and scary it was. She spent 3 days in the hospital on antibiotics, and then she was fine.

But, it was traumatic. I had panic attacks every now and again her first year that she would die, and even now (obviously), I still remember it all again when she has a fever (she also is just one of those kids who will get up to 105 like it's nothing). 

I wonder if your situation is similar to mine. Traumatic things can be triggering for a really long time, and I don't think there's anything necessarily unnatural about that. In my case, there's no one to focus any kind of blame on, so it doesn't affect any relationships. But if there was someone to blame for the feelings, I can totally understand how they'd affect the relationship.

So, I dunno. My thoughts are if you can see this as a normal part of getting over something traumatic even 10 years after the fact, maybe that will lessen their impact on you. 

Does your wife know how you feel? If you told her, would she get angry and defensive, or would she genuinely want to know what she could do to help you through it until it passed?


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## timedoesnothealall (Sep 15, 2013)

Racer said:


> That’s when my wife lost me emotionally. It’s something I do continue to resent her for, but it’s also more than that.... I loathe myself for actually trying to win her back. I am ashamed of myself. I severely let myself down when challenged. I’m still not quite able to forgive myself, but have gotten to the point where I can at least understand and accept my actions and take ownership of them: I rugswept, I made excuses for her, and I begged and groveled to get just the basic elements of a relationship out of her. I am ashamed I settled for so little in return. So I worked hard on myself to change those things about me. It helped a lot. I did it through No More Mr Nice Guy and Living with the Liar as well as some cues from Walking on Eggshells.
> 
> At the same time, I also reflect at how far the relationship and I have come since then. There is a lot of progress on both fronts. So, it’s easier to accept the old me was weak... just that much further to grow and rediscover my pride in myself at that progress.
> 
> However, as part of that is also the acceptance that my WW took advantage of this weakness for her own gain. Hence the losing me emotionally. She watches out for herself and pounces on weakness; I do the same now. “Her and I”, not “us”. It’s the acceptance of this truth that hurts a lot. I didn’t want to let go of the fantasy that our marriage was more than just two individuals watching out for themselves and taking what they can out of this co-venture. She is also judged on her progress. There is a lot, but it still remains to be seen whether it will be enough.



You wrote my life story, word for word. I'm guessing that a lot of others would fit this template.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

theroad said:


> Time to DNA test the kid and schedule a polygraph test for your WW.


:iagree:

You have to choose between accepting the possible unknown things in the past OR taking a poly and DNA test.

No need to make drama about this, but you need to communicate this aching problem to her. You need to get rid of it. If she chooses to leave you about it, then you have your answer. If the takes the poly, idem.


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