# What is the purpose of an apology?



## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

I'm just picking up from another thread so that one doesn't get hijacked any more than it already has been  Here's what I wrote:



> I always believed apologies were for one's behavior, not for another person's feelings. More "I'm sorry I did/said blah, blah, blah; it was wrong of me." I guess I find it seems to skirt my responsibility if I say, "I'm sorry my behavior offended you." Like that latter kind of means, "I'm sorry you feel bad, but I am not apologizing for my behavior, because it WASN'T wrong, although I'm sorry you were offended by it."


So, when you apologize, what are you apologizing for? Your behavior? The fact that your behavior made another feel bad? If you do the latter, does that mean you feel your behavior was wrong, too? 

I also try never to make an excuse when I apologize b/c it seems to me to undercut the sincerity of the apology. I go back and forth on this, though, b/c I want my children, in particular, to understand that we are all human and make mistakes and deserve forgiveness. So I might say to my daughter, "I'm really sorry I raised my voice; it was wrong of me. You do not deserve that treatment." Or sometimes I might say, "I'm sorry I raised my voice at you. I am really tired but that is no excuse for raising my voice; you deserve better." 

I guess I'm pretty much in the camp that I own my own behavior, and each person is responsible for their feelings, so I cannot apologize for another person's feelings about something I've done--although I can acknowledge those feelings. More like, "I know my decision to do XYZ upsets you, but I feel strongly that this is the right decision." If it is one of my kids, we might talk about why they feel upset when XYZ happens. I know that if someone's behavior upsets me, I make sure I understand why I'm upset before discussing their behavior with them. In most cases, my feelings seem to have a lot more to do with how I'm thinking about their behavior, rather than the behavior itself. 

Anyway, just thought this raised an issue where there will be different p.o.v. and experiences to explore.


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## Mom6547 (Jul 13, 2010)

sisters359 said:


> I'm just picking up from another thread so that one doesn't get hijacked any more than it already has been  Here's what I wrote:


I guess I don't understand the notion of hijacking threads, Conversations, by their nature, move and change. But that is neither here nor there.


> So, when you apologize, what are you apologizing for? Your behavior? The fact that your behavior made another feel bad? If you do the latter, does that mean you feel your behavior was wrong, too?


It can depend. It can go either way. Moral people think doing certain things are wrong. When you do wrong, you apologize for your action. That is an act of keeping yourself on the correct moral path. Sometimes ones actions have unintended consequences of hurting someone's feelings. If you hold that person in some kind of regard, then one might be genuinely sorry for having hurt their feelings despite feeling that there is no actual moral failure.

So you apologize for whatever it is you are sorry for. 

In the aforementioned hijacked thread, I was not particularly sorry for repeating my husband's calling the people whose views we both regard as sexist a name which was the context of the comment. I was not particularly worried about that ACTION. I was sorry that I offended one poster who commented whom I hold in regard whom, incidentally, does not get included in the sexist category as far as I know.



> I also try never to make an excuse when I apologize b/c it seems to me to undercut the sincerity of the apology. I go back and forth on this, though, b/c I want my children, in particular, to understand that we are all human and make mistakes and deserve forgiveness. So I might say to my daughter, "I'm really sorry I raised my voice; it was wrong of me. You do not deserve that treatment."


I don't know what you mean by an excuse. I think an apology should be sincere. I think too often people use apology for smoothing things over and becomes a knee jerk response to anyone's discomfort.

I WOULD be sorry to raise my voice at my children. So it would not be hard to say so. (Did it this morning, in fact.) 



> Or sometimes I might say, "I'm sorry I raised my voice at you. I am really tired but that is no excuse for raising my voice; you deserve better."


Here is an example of what some folk might see making an excuse of an apology. One night DH and I were out dancing. He was over with out friends, I was at the bar getting them drinks. I was joking and laughing with a woman at the bar. Between she and I was a man. He was not in the conversation but from where DH stood, it looked like I was flirting up a storm with him.

He got VERY hurt and upset. You can be sure as tooting that I was sorry he felt that way! But I wasn't sorry that I had done nothing to solicit that feeling. I apologized sincerely for his hurt feelings. 




> I guess I'm pretty much in the camp that I own my own behavior, and each person is responsible for their feelings, so I cannot apologize for another person's feelings about something I've done--although I can acknowledge those feelings.


I guess I feel you can feel sorry for someone's feelings. But ... as Spok says it is morally praiseworthy not morally obligatory. Apologizing for wrong actions would be morally obligatory.


Side note I think that owning one's own feelings is a really useful skill. The skill of self soothing, not allowing the actions of others to affect you, is VERY useful. It is part of self reflection to understand what is truly important.



> More like, "I know my decision to do XYZ upsets you, but I feel strongly that this is the right decision."


I agree with this. I would go on to talk about self soothing techniques if the opportunity arose.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

I don't see a reason why someone would not apologize for both there actions and how they make someone feel. Depending on a situation. I do both. I don't feel "owning" your actions and not caring about someone else's feelings as a positive trait at all but hey whatever you gotta do to make in this cruel world.


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## MarriedWifeInLove (May 28, 2010)

When I say I'm sorry, then I'm sorry about what my part was in the argument/disagreement. And that my part was wrong.

When I say I'm sorry my behavior offended you, then I'm sorry that you're upset, but my behavior was not meant to offend you, but did in some way, but I don't think my behavior was wrong - but it was wrong in that it offended you.

Does that make any sense?

This is how I look at it when I apologize.


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

I think the purpose of an apology is to get your own ass out of trouble. Whether you said or did something that upset the other person, you do what you have to to fix it. 
Atleast, this is what I have found that men quite often do, they say whatever they have to, to fix the new situation. 

Maybe that is the wrong way to think about it, but its the mentality when dealing with a woman who is upset. *duck and cover*


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

gbrad said:


> I think the purpose of an apology is to get your own ass out of trouble. Whether you said or did something that upset the other person, you do what you have to to fix it.
> Atleast, this is what I have found that men quite often do, they say whatever they have to, to fix the new situation.
> 
> Maybe that is the wrong way to think about it, but its the mentality when dealing with a woman who is upset. *duck and cover*


Ever try this and find that the woman is even more upset and demanding _after_ you apologize?

Could it be that she sees through your act and it just irritates her more?


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Great thread! I think apologizing can come in different forms; I don't think one must apologize for their behavior in order to be sincere, although it usually follows that pattern. 

The examples you gave are wonderful! Often times, people try to use a _reason_ for a behavior as an _excuse_. In your example, you explained that the reason for raising your voice was the fact that you were tired, but you did not use that as an excuse. Many people will say, "Sorry for yelling, but I am really tired...I've been chasing after you all day, not to mention cooking and cleaning..." etc. which is just making an excuse for their action and indirectly blame shifting. I don't think excuses are present in sincere apologies. I think reasons definitely can be--the trick is communicating them as such (like in your example) so that no one thinks you're making excuses for yourself.

I think it is possible to apologize for hurting someone's feelings without apologizing for your behavior. The main example of this would be during misunderstandings, where you didn't do/say anything wrong or deliberately hurtful, but the other person mistakenly believed that you did. In this case, I usually apologize for the outcome, but not for my actions.

The Dark Side of apologizing for outcomes rather than actions exists when people _use_ apologies. This comes to mind when someone deliberately insults someone else with the intent to hurt, and then passive aggressively says, "Well I'm sorry you feel that way." That is not a sincere apology.

I don't have any idea what to make of the situation of apologizing when people take offense. People find it tempting and enjoyable to take offense to everything. You can't always apologize if someone takes offense; should an artist apologize if their abstract painting "offends" someone because it isn't a landscape? But then again, what if that same artist makes a pornographic painting that offends someone else? This issue is really up in the air for me--I think what determines a sincere apology is the _intent_ throughout the whole process.

Interesting tangent: Miss Manners says there are certain necessary components of a good apology...The person making the apology should:
1. Say that they are sorry.
2. Explain why they are sorry.
3. Promise not to do that thing again.
4. Ask if there is anything they can do to make it up.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

I rarely if ever apologize for "making someone feel ABC" because I don't MAKE someone feel something...they choose it. Now, my actions or words may well have contributed to the environment that made them choose that...and in that case I'd apologize for my actions or words. But their feelings are their choice!

I realize that it's a phrase we use in English, "You made me feel fat!" for example...but in reality you bought the jeans that were just the right size, you dried them in the drier so that they shrunk a little, you tried them on when they were a little small, and you asked "Do these make my butt look big?" Well... even if he said, "GIGANTIC!" it would still be your choice to either laugh at that or be offended. And if he said, "Well it looks like maybe they shrunk in the drier. That dark blue flare cut pair really balances with your figure better" it would be your choice to take that opinion and pick the dark blue flare leg pair or "feel hurt"! 

So for an apology I almost always do *REPS*:

R=responsibility. I take responsibility for what I actually did. 
E=empathy. I bet that made you feel.... 
P=plan. Here's what I'm going to change so I don't do this again.
S=safety. Sometimes a person needs to do what they need to do in order to feel "safe" after a fight, so I end with saying it's okay to do what you need to do to feel safe.


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## major misfit (Oct 17, 2010)

I walk that fine line when apologzing when someone's feelings got hurt by something I said. Because THEY own their feelings. And I'm really not one to try to hurt someone else. If I'm WRONG about something, I'll apologize. If someone is hurt, then no apology is usually forthcoming. Not my fault if the truth hurts. That's why when someone asks me something, I'll ask them if they want the truth, or if they want me to lie to them. You want the truth, don't fault me if it hurts. It's also a case of sometimes being the truth according to me. MY truth. 

It's one of those nights, so I'm not sure I'm putting this down the way I want to. I might have to revisit this thread.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

There is something I call "hiding behind the truth". If I say something that is "sensitive" in a kind and diplomatic way - without watering it down - that is one thing. 

If however I speak in a blunt manner on the same topic - the other person will feel a lot worse. 

When I do the latter - I have violated the golden rule and I do apologize for being "harsh/insensitive" in my delivery. And I mean it. 






Affaircare said:


> I rarely if ever apologize for "making someone feel ABC" because I don't MAKE someone feel something...they choose it. Now, my actions or words may well have contributed to the environment that made them choose that...and in that case I'd apologize for my actions or words. But their feelings are their choice!
> 
> I realize that it's a phrase we use in English, "You made me feel fat!" for example...but in reality you bought the jeans that were just the right size, you dried them in the drier so that they shrunk a little, you tried them on when they were a little small, and you asked "Do these make my butt look big?" Well... even if he said, "GIGANTIC!" it would still be your choice to either laugh at that or be offended. And if he said, "Well it looks like maybe they shrunk in the drier. That dark blue flare cut pair really balances with your figure better" it would be your choice to take that opinion and pick the dark blue flare leg pair or "feel hurt"!
> 
> ...


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

I apologize for either or both. If my behavior/action was wrong, then I apologize for it. If my behavior/action was wrong and the other person felt X as a result, then I apologize for doing what I did and for them feeling X because of it. If I don't feel what I did was wrong, but it made them feel bad, then I will tell them, "I'm sorry you felt X when I did Y. That was not my intention." I will not apologize for a behavior/action that I feel was right unless they can prove to me that it was wrong, but I will apologize for the fact that that action made them feel bad, because whatever I might have done was not intended to make them feel that way. 

The point of an apology is to make things right after something has gone wrong, whether that something is an action or a feeling. And unless your apology is sincere, it doesn't really matter whether you apologize for behavior or feeling. If I know I need to apologize, but I don't know why exactly, rather than make an insincere "I'm sorry that..." apology, I just go with a simple "I'm sorry."


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## gbrad (Jul 20, 2010)

lime said:


> Ever try this and find that the woman is even more upset and demanding _after_ you apologize?
> 
> Could it be that she sees through your act and it just irritates her more?


That does happen sometimes. Just means I have to work harder to make the apology stick. Sometimes it takes more than the "I'm sorry" and explanation and conversation has to go into it. 

I'm not saying that I never actually feel sorry. When I actually do/say something that I feel was wrong, then I will mean the apology, but most of the time I don't think that is the case. Thus, its just a matter of fixing it so we can move on and avoid the emotional backlash.


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## Bluemoon7 (Jan 27, 2010)

Very interesting topic. 

I find apologizing for someone's feelings comes across as condescending. As I don't appreciate those kind of apology's, I don't care to give them to others. H sometimes needs to hear that "I'm sorry if that's how it came across. I did not mean it that way." But that is rare because I'm too busy insisting that he misconstrued my meaning and should now accept what I really meant and move on. 

Still, I try to be open minded about the posibility of my being wrong and am very willing to apologize then.

Not to hijack the thread, but after a decade of my MIL treating me like crap and me getting fed up, we finally attempted to have a discussion. The first thing she said is "I'm not going to take all the responsibility." Seriously. (Yet when I pressed her too tell me what I did to offend her all she could come up with is that we haven't invited them over and she doesn't have my phone number.) As you can guess things did not go well. How can they when someone's mentality is all about who's to blame for what, rather than what they can do to resolve the issues with the other person. My point is, in this case, an apology would have gotten my MIL the opportunity to see her son on Christmas, but that proved too much for her. Interestingly she fancies herself the victim in all of this.


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## julia71 (Oct 25, 2010)

I think it's quite simple actually, I apologize for what I'm sorry for. 

I.e. my behavior, or what I said, or what I did. I never apologize for "making" a person feel any way - because you can't MAKE a person feel any emotion. I will say "I'm sorry you feel that way"


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

If I get an apology of this sort, it is useless:

"I'm sorry that what I did hurt you, but it was the "best" I could do at the time."

OR

"I didn't mean to hurt you by doing X" (when the only possible outcome is harm to me).

To me, they are nonapologies.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

IMO, actions speak louder than words. To say you're sorry but then continually do the same thing over and over again that you say you're sorry for is worthless. If people are truly sorry, they will show it in their actions not just their words.


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## lime (Jul 3, 2010)

Affaircare said:


> So for an apology I almost always do *REPS*:
> 
> R=responsibility. I take responsibility for what I actually did.
> E=empathy. I bet that made you feel....
> ...


Haha, I like the REPS! I just took another look at the ones I posted, and the first letters can be rearranged to PEAS or APES. I think REPS is catchier! 


AgentD, that is such a great point. If someone continues a harmful action, it shows they are not apologetic at all.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

I will only apologize if I truely made a mistake...
But as for my behaviour... No... It's who I am and that would make me feel regretful...
And if my words truth or feelings hurt your feelings... Nope because if my feelings hurt yours that's too bad... I won't devalue mine to make anyone feel better....
And hey when it's truths you know what they say... 
" truth hurts... If you scared go to church ".


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

WadeWilson said:


> And if my words truth or feelings hurt your feelings... Nope because if my feelings hurt yours that's too bad... I won't devalue mine to make anyone feel better....


Except this implies that you are denying that their feelings have value. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it's like you're saying "If my hand hurts you when I touch you, too bad." Just because something exists doesn't mean that it's acceptable to not apologize for what it does to someone else.


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## WadeWilson (Jul 4, 2010)

atruckersgirl said:


> Except this implies that you are denying that their feelings have value. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but it's like you're saying "If my hand hurts you when I touch you, too bad." Just because something exists doesn't mean that it's acceptable to not apologize for what it does to someone else.


Sometimes you have to be willing to look after your feelings at all cost... And if someone ask you what your opinion is, and it hurts thier feelings... I'm not going to say oh I'm sorry... Now if I told you to go to the wrong place, when you ask directions... That warrants an apology, because it was a mistake... So yes if you say touch me, and with my softess touch my hand hurts you... I guess I'd just laugh and not put my hands on you again....


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## LSU Fan (Dec 31, 2010)

"I'm sorry, but you......" 

Does NOT count as an apology


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