# My wife cheated with my best friend



## MrArachnid

I was suspicious...found parts of deleted texts and confronted her and him over it. They both denied it made me think I was crazy. Then after a few weeks my wife confessed to the affair. We had our issues and I know I caused problems. I found all of this out last Sunday night went to work with no sleep. Over this past week, we have talked about it. She has answered my questions about details...in part because she looked stuff up on the internet about surviving an affair. I needed to know the details because I am the type of person who's imagination will make up everything and anything and I did not want to live in my head wondering what, why when, and how.

I am devastated. I am hurting. I am trying to forgive. I am trying to understand why. Funny, through all the details I sat through listening....my concern was whether she allowed him to kiss her and do some of the things together that only she and I have done. And now I am having to trust that she is being honest with me. I told her that if I ask anything about what happened...I expect Blunt Force Trauma.

Now I am struggling with the images. Of course the images my imagination was concocting were actually far worse so in a strange way it helped to know the details. I have been having severe panic attacks on a daily basis. The panic attacks are debilitating. I am depressed and when I am depressed I do not eat. I have eaten a bit....only to vomit when the images come.

She and I are going to a counselor soon. I want to go out and just have sex with a random woman just to replace the images in my head but I know that would be the wrong thing to do.

I am going to the Dr. on Monday to get a prescription to stop the anxiety and panic attacks so I can get back to some normality.

I just want to go back in time and do whatever I can to make this not happen.


THIS SUCKS!!!


----------



## keko

Revenge affair is a bad idea, very bad idea.

Get tested for STDs.

Which phone does she have? Is it under your name?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Martin12

Double whammy because it was your "best friend."

At least she is coming clean. Good for you for acknowledging you "caused problems."

I hope you can use the experience to strengthen the marriage. I suspect the panic attacks will wane over a couple of weeks.

You have to cut the "best friend" out of your life.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> Revenge affair is a bad idea, very bad idea.
> 
> Get tested for STDs.
> 
> Which phone does she have? Is it under your name?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I know its is a bad idea. And I won't do it because I love her too much to do that to her. Well funny you would say that about the STD's....she and I have herpes....so it was a bit nice in a revenge way.....to text my friend to let him know that since she didn't tell him.

The phone is under my name, why?


----------



## keko

Check the logs if she really ended the calls/texts or if she is secretly continuing it.

Which phone by the way?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

Martin12 said:


> Double whammy because it was your "best friend."
> 
> At least she is coming clean. Good for you for acknowledging you "caused problems."
> 
> I hope you can use the experience to strengthen the marriage. I suspect the panic attacks will wane over a couple of weeks.
> 
> You have to cut the "best friend" out of your life.


Yeah, I have. Of course I have had to do that through emails, texts since he won't man up and talk to me. 

We are going to counseling and I told her that if we have to go to counseling a thousand times to get through this that I think we are worth it........I am just hurting so bad.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> Check the logs if she really ended the calls/texts or if she is secretly continuing it.
> 
> Which phone by the way?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Android HTC....how do you check logs?


----------



## Halien

Don't deny yourself the time you need to really process this hurt, and work your way back to the place where you are REALLY ready to talk about reconciliation. Right now, it sounds like you just jumped at reconciliation and started going through the motions as a kneejerk reaction, too afraid to consider any other option. 

But over time, you'll realize what it really means that the woman you love tried to convince you that you were crazy for suspecting the affair. You'll wonder how long she would've kept up the affair, or if she would've ever stopped if you hadn't begun to suspect.

Since we are talking about real love, you probably will find your way back to reconciliation, but I personally think that the horrible images and mind games will go on much longer if you let your mind process the betrayal, and then work its way back to reconciliation after seriously considering the alternative. Also, what is this telling her about the next time? Will she know that the marriage is safe, even if she does this again?

You can tell her that you can't answer the quetion about the future yet. You can talk about how dissapointed you are in being with a woman who would do this to you, but also apparently so casually put others at risk for disease.

I fear that too many people in your place try to short circuit the healing process of betrayal, making the reconciliation drag on for far longer than it otherwise might, due to unresolved feelings over the betrayal.


----------



## MrArachnid

MrArachnid said:


> Android HTC....how do you check logs?


Oh, I don't need to check logs.....I installed a program to her phone that logs everything for me....even if they are deleted....photos, emails, texts, calls....


----------



## keko

MrArachnid said:


> Oh, I don't need to check logs.....I installed a program to her phone that logs everything for me....even if they are deleted....photos, emails, texts, calls....


After you discovered the affair?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

Did you got the complete truth from her? Is she Trickle Truth or in damage control? Are you sure about the time line she gave and details regarding A?

I believe that, she know that she is caught, so she went to internet and collected details of how to convince you with what she think you will belive, she may be doing that. First get the truth completely then take your own time and decide whether to R or D, till then put the marriage under suspension and inform it to her. You should know completely what you are forgiving? Forgiveness should be hardly earned by her doing the right thing.

Did you exposed the Affair to her and your family? Did you exposed the A to OMs wife? If not do that first.


----------



## MrArachnid

Halien said:


> Don't deny yourself the time you need to really process this hurt, and work your way back to the place where you are REALLY ready to talk about reconciliation. Right now, it sounds like you just jumped at reconciliation and started going through the motions as a kneejerk reaction, too afraid to consider any other option.
> 
> But over time, you'll realize what it really means that the woman you love tried to convince you that you were crazy for suspecting the affair. You'll wonder how long she would've kept up the affair, or if she would've ever stopped if you hadn't begun to suspect.
> 
> Since we are talking about real love, you probably will find your way back to reconciliation, but I personally think that the horrible images and mind games will go on much longer if you let your mind process the betrayal, and then work its way back to reconciliation after seriously considering the alternative. Also, what is this telling her about the next time? Will she know that the marriage is safe, even if she does this again?
> 
> You can tell her that you can't answer the quetion about the future yet. You can talk about how dissapointed you are in being with a woman who would do this to you, but also apparently so casually put others at risk for disease.
> 
> I fear that too many people in your place try to short circuit the healing process of betrayal, making the reconciliation drag on for far longer than it otherwise might, due to unresolved feelings over the betrayal.



I have already made my position known. I told her that I feel like a chump for wanting to continue our marriage. I told her that if she ever did anything like this again that we are through....even a flirty chat with another man....no matter who he is. I told her that I will need her to be completely transparent about everything....where she is, how long she will be somewhere, what she is doing, etc.

And I will not be lied to again....since I installed a program to her phone that will tell me all that I need to know....GPS, text log, urls visited, calls in and out. So if she ever did do anything ever again....she can't lie to me because I would know and have the proof.


----------



## Onmyway

Yeah, take it slow and keep your mind open to the high possibility that R won't work. 

I will copy a post from my thread on dealing with anger and mind images, these links are helping me.



morituri said:


> Onmyway, you may want to read:
> 
> *3 Ways to Erase Post-Affair Anger*
> *Cheated On, Tortured by Images*
> *http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/40190-feeding-affair-image-beast.html#post593486*
> 
> And have your wife read:
> 
> *How to Rebuild Your Spouse's Trust After an Affair*


----------



## Onmyway

MrArachnid said:


> I have already made my position known. I told her that I feel like a chump for wanting to continue our marriage. I told her that if she ever did anything like this again that we are through....even a flirty chat with another man....no matter who he is. I told her that I will need her to be completely transparent about everything....where she is, how long she will be somewhere, what she is doing, etc.


Make sure that you are ready to follow through with this, she probably doesn't believe that you will. 

Make yourself strong and make sure that she knows how strong you are becoming. Prepare yourself my friend, make yourself better, with her or without her.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> After you discovered the affair?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Before I knew for sure that she had cheated. She told me they were together a few times and she started to feel guilty and broke it off. After she told him it was over, he came over to our house to tell her he loved her....she told me that she yelled at him...told him to get the F out and not to bother her anymore. So far the program on her phone supports that she is having no contact with him.

She told me that when they had sex she was disconnected and that he was convenient and safe. She said he initiated it the first time.....the second time it was her and the last time it was him again.


----------



## MrArachnid

Onmyway said:


> Make sure that you are ready to follow through with this, she probably doesn't believe that you will.
> 
> Make yourself strong and make sure that she knows how strong you are becoming. Prepare yourself my friend, make yourself better, with her or without her.




She knows that I am a 'Say what you mean and mean what you say' kind of person. She knows I am serious. I will not get run over again. I will wash my hands of this relationship is she does this ever again. I love her dearly but I am not a welcome mat.


----------



## keko

Wait she had sex three times with your best friend?

What exactly is she doing for your forgiveness?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

Onmyway said:


> Yeah, take it slow and keep your mind open to the high possibility that R won't work.
> 
> I will copy a post from my thread on dealing with anger and mind images, these links are helping me.



Thanks! I will definitely read that. I hope she will too but I am not hinging my healing on her.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> Wait she had sex three times with your best friend?
> 
> What exactly is she doing for your forgiveness?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She has been more attentive. She is respecting my space and not pushing me to talk. She answers anything I ask. 

I have decided to be in control of myself....In the past, I would have drove to his house....drug him out and beat the ever living $#!+ out of him....but I know that would do nothing to help and just land me in jail.

I told her that I don't even want to be naked in front of her right now because I feel cheap.

I told her that I want to be intimate but I need time. 

She seems to be trying to let me know that she is sorry.


----------



## keko

Make sure to keep checking up on her cell usage,whereabouts, etc. sometimes cheater's show fake remorse and go back to their habits.

If you haven't already you need to expose this to her/your parents and OM's family.


----------



## MrArachnid

For me forgiveness does not mean holding a grudge. I know it is very soon since this all happened. I am holding to what I know. I told her that I forgive her and that it is a process. 70 x 7 a day....and I will get past this.

My parents have been married for 42 years and my mother cheated on my father. I have asked my wife to talk to my mom because I know my wife has feelings of guilt and shame....she has expressed that. I just don't want those feeling to overwhelm her and create more issues.

Personally, I think that us going to talk to a counselor and if I can get her to talk to my mom about herself....will drive home the reality and gravity of what she really did to US and that maybe having to say it to someone other than me will make it more real for her.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> Make sure to keep checking up on her cell usage,whereabouts, etc. sometimes cheater's show fake remorse and go back to their habits.
> 
> If you haven't already you need to expose this to her/your parents and OM's family.


I have talked to my parents already. They are not judgmental people and have been through this themselves. She has not told her parents. Is that really necessary?

I told "my friends" wife because she needed to know and that she needed to be tested for risk of infection. She acted like I was crazy and barking up the wrong tree. Didn't believe me about the herpes....even after I offered to send a Med Report to validate what I said. I did all that I could to let her know.


----------



## MrArachnid

Kallan Pavithran said:


> Did you got the complete truth from her? Is she Trickle Truth or in damage control? Are you sure about the time line she gave and details regarding A?
> 
> I believe that, she know that she is caught, so she went to internet and collected details of how to convince you with what she think you will belive, she may be doing that. First get the truth completely then take your own time and decide whether to R or D, till then put the marriage under suspension and inform it to her. You should know completely what you are forgiving? Forgiveness should be hardly earned by her doing the right thing.
> 
> Did you exposed the Affair to her and your family? Did you exposed the A to OMs wife? If not do that first.



The OM's wife, yes. My parents, yes, because they survived the same thing.

It seems vengeful to tell her parent's....I am not wanting to go the vengeful route.


----------



## MrArachnid

Are any of you still married after an affair? How long has it been? Is the marriage stronger, if you stayed together? Did the trust return or do you still have issues?


----------



## Beowulf

MrArachnid said:


> The OM's wife, yes. My parents, yes, because they survived the same thing.
> 
> It seems vengeful to tell her parent's....I am not wanting to go the vengeful route.


Exposure is usually used to snap the WS out of their affair and back to reality. It can also be used to make sure there is no backsliding after NC is established. Since you have already exposed to your parents and the OM's wife and you are verifying NC I would tend to agree with you. However, that said Morrigan told her family what she did as part of her showing remorse. I did not demand it but it certainly went a long way toward making me feel more comfortable in the marriage. Would your wife voluntarily tell her parents? It would prove that she is accepting the consequences of her actions and not trying to minimize what she did or hide from her responsibility.


----------



## Beowulf

MrArachnid said:


> Are any of you still married after an affair? How long has it been? Is the marriage stronger, if you stayed together? Did the trust return or do you still have issues?


Morrigan and I are still married 20 years later. She had an affair that lasted several months. We are extremely happy and our marriage is indeed stronger. I do trust her but the trust now is different. The trust I had before was based on naivety and the belief that she could never do something so injurious to me. The trust I have now is a more mature trust based on the fact that we are all human, we all can hurt one another and we all have the ability if not the propensity to be selfish. I feel what I have now is more realistic and based on common sense and not blind innocence.


----------



## sunshinetoday

MrArachnid said:


> Are any of you still married after an affair? How long has it been? Is the marriage stronger, if you stayed together? Did the trust return or do you still have issues?


Hi. Sorry for you having to go through this. My H had an affair (month long) 4 years ago. Yes we are still together. The trust does return, but it's never the same. Our marriage is better then before. It helps so much if ur spouse is truly sorry and transparent. Mine was. I still get mad and think about things every now and then. I checked up on his phone, gps, ect like daily for that first year. Now I do once a month maybe, it makes me feel better to check. Maybe one day I will stop checking, but I'm not ready. It's a hard thing to live with, but if both sides work...it can truly be a better marriage. I am living proof. Best of luck to you.

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


----------



## Shaggy

Have you wife write a NC letter, you'll find examples oh this site. She shoud show it to you. Then you will send it to the O
M and a copy of it to his wife.

As part of the consequences and her owning the affair she does need to tell her parents. You should also tell mutual friends that would normally be part of the social circle involving the OM and you why you cannot continue to be around the OM, what a piece of thrash the OM is for doing this with you wife, so that they know why can never be around him again, and do they know what kind of man he is.

Your wife need to get tested for STDs since even if she has herpes, the OM may have still given her something too.

As for forgiveness, do bit rush that. So far you are still dealing with the initial shock. Sure she's been around trying to help with that. BUT that isn't at all dealing with how she could repeatedly choose to cheat with him and lie to you. This wasn't a drunken crossing the line with a kiss. This was a deliberately chosen act by her to cheat with him on many occasions.

Don't assume you know the whole truth,don't assume he was the first. All you know know is that the wife you thought could never cheat, is in fact completely capable and willing to cheat, and completely capable of looking you in the eye afterward and lie without guilt. So don't rush to forgive and don't rush to accept it and try to move on. You really need to slow down and honestly rreexamine her and the marriage and see if the person you now see she is, is someone you should be with at all.

Ask her, why you should let her stay with you. And demand an answer beyond sone fluff answer.

Consider her situation, this affair got deep enough that the OM appears to be ready to leave his wife for yours. That means its pretty deep.

Before you accept her back and try to work on R, really takes time to look at the real person your wife is, and ask yourself why you should let her be with you. What's in it for you? What kind of marriage will you be living in a year from now?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> The OM's wife, yes. My parents, yes, because they survived the same thing.
> 
> It seems vengeful to tell her parent's....I am not wanting to go the vengeful route.


It can be seen as vengeful,mbut it also her owning up to why your marriage relationship is on the line. It becomes an act of remorse and honesty on her part to come clean about it. It also removes it a secret you are keeping. I personally find it unacceptable that the BS ends up part of the conspiracy of silence if they choose to keep secret the affair. The VS should never br in the situation of helping protect the affair from discovery.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Beowulf

Shaggy said:


> Have you wife write a NC letter, you'll find examples oh this site. She shoud show it to you. Then you will send it to the O
> M and a copy of it to his wife.
> 
> As part of the consequences and her owning the affair she does need to tell her parents. You should also tell mutual friends that would normally be part of the social circle involving the OM and you why you cannot continue to be around the OM, what a piece of thrash the OM is for doing this with you wife, so that they know why can never be around him again, and do they know what kind of man he is.
> 
> Your wife need to get tested for STDs since even if she has herpes, the OM may have still given her something too.
> 
> As for forgiveness, do bit rush that. So far you are still dealing with the initial shock. Sure she's been around trying to help with that. BUT that isn't at all dealing with how she could repeatedly choose to cheat with him and lie to you. This wasn't a drunken crossing the line with a kiss. This was a deliberately chosen act by her to cheat with him on many occasions.
> 
> Don't assume you know the whole truth,don't assume he was the first. All you know know is that the wife you thought could never cheat, is in fact completely capable and willing to cheat, and completely capable of looking you in the eye afterward and lie without guilt. So don't rush to forgive and don't rush to accept it and try to move on. You really need to slow down and honestly rreexamine her and the marriage and see if the person you now see she is, is someone you should be with at all.
> 
> Ask her, why you should let her stay with you. And demand an answer beyond sone fluff answer.
> 
> Consider her situation, this affair got deep enough that the OM appears to be ready to leave his wife for yours. That means its pretty deep.
> 
> Before you accept her back and try to work on R, really takes time to look at the real person your wife is, and ask yourself why you should let her be with you. What's in it for you? What kind of marriage will you be living in a year from now?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Shaggy is right. Continue to talk and verify her responses. There is one thing I'd like to add. If her story checks out remember she broke it off and pushed him away. That means you will never have to consider yourself her second choice. That is a deal breaker for many BS.


----------



## Chaparral

Does she know you can track her, GPS, email, texts etc.? If she knows this the affair can go underground, it happens. VARs are a must.

Also this has been posted before and it might help:

Betrayed Spouse Bill of Rights

30 Oct 2008 4 Comments

by jemjesterin adultery, betrayal, life, recoveryTags: affair, betrayed, cheating, infidelity, recovery, rights, self respect

I posted this today on a support board and felt I should share it here.

Betrayed Spouses Bill of Rights
In a world where a marriage is as likely to end as not, we sometimes forget what a partnership is in the early days after discovery of infidelity. We lose ourselves in the desperation to hold onto your loved one. Remembering your rights will help you no matter which path your marriage takes.

1- You have a right to the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. By having an affair, your spouse has closed off the relationship with you and opened one with the OP (other person). You have a right to insist this is reversed for your healing and to assure that loyalties have been realigned.

2- You have the right to trust- but verify. Trust has been broken, ‘snooping’ is not snooping. It is verifying that someone proven to be a liar, sneak and cheat has changed their ways. Like an addict, a WS(wayward spouse) will often go back to their emotional fix. You have a right to verify this is not happening.

3- You have the right to insist there are only two people in the marriage. That choice was made when you made vows to each other. Even a moment with a third person is too much. You owe your WS no time to ‘think about it’. There’s a marriage or there’s none.

4- You have a right to know who the OP is, the flip of this is you do not have a right to harm or harass this person. Hold yourself to a better standard than the OP did.

5- You have the right to choose to give the gift of reconciliation or to divorce. You have the right to take some time to make that choice. If you one day realize you cannot live with the truth of what has been done, you have the right to walk away.

6- You have the right to insist your WS gets STD testing done and to see the results. Even if the WS claims it has not gotten physical, as many WSs will admit to “only a kiss” when it has gone much further.

7- You have the right to insist that your WS initiates and honors NC (no contact) immediately. You have a right to have input and to be a witness to how NC is established.

8- You have a right to set and enforce boundaries. This is not blackmail or any of the other negative words your WS might use. This you protecting yourself.

9- You have a right to hold onto evidence for as long as you need it to feel safe. Your WS has created an atmosphere of risk and danger. It is natural to have a safety net to counteract what has been brought into your marriage.

10- You have a right to know who your WS’s friends are and the nature of their interactions. If it is kept a secret, it is not healthy for the marriage and therefore something is amiss.

11- You have the right to out the affair to anyone you deem will help you and/or your marriage. This is not your secret to keep, this is not your shame to hold. You owe no protection to those that failed to protect you.

12- You have a right to heal on your timeline. As long as you are making steady progress, you are healing. It is a slow process and a WS that says things along the lines of, “You’ll never get over this!” does not have a full grasp of the damage betrayal causes. This is a healing process that takes from 18 months to five years.

13- You have a right to yell, cry, fall apart and otherwise handle this in any way that relieves some of the devastating pain, shock and loss of trust. Your world has been turned on its end. You do not have the right to physically, verbally or otherwise abuse your spouse.

14- You have the right to insist on a true marriage. A marriage of partners, where you love, honor and protect each other. If you feel your marriage is missing one of these components, either fixing it or leaving are your only two options. You don’t have the right to cheat and/or turn someone else into a betrayed spouse.

15- You have a right to love yourself. Often the betrayed have forgotten themselves as an individual. This is the optimum time to remind yourself that you are unique and lovable in your own right. That as much as you might love your spouse, you should love yourself enough to refuse any sort of mistreatment.


----------



## Chaparral

Reqiured reading:

Married Man Sex Life

His Needs Her Needs

Five Love Languages

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/32002-welcome-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read-3.html


No More Mr. Nice Guy


----------



## MrArachnid

Wow...this is overwhelming. I am completely impressed by the responses. I was feelings like the only man in the world who has had this happen....even though I know that not to be true. This is really helping me to understand some steps other have taken to heal. 

I am not blindly trusting her. I know she is remorseful....she has been crying to me and trying to be affectionate without overstepping my intimacy boundaries. I hurt because of the affair....it cost me security in my marriage and it also cost me a 20 year friendship. But, I also hurt for her....I know she feels ashamed and guilty, if she didn't then I would have no choice but to leave.....This is the kind of man I am.....I'm not a pushover by any means but I am sensitive. 

She has been telling me that we need to work out the things that were trouble areas in our relationship from before the affair.....but as she said, "not until I know you are healing". 

I need to feel respected again. I need to know that she loves me and not the "I'm sorry I screwed up"...loves me but the "I will do whatever I have to let you know that I love you" kind of love me.

I feel like less of a man.....and that is difficult.


----------



## bryanp

I think there is a huge problem here. First, what kind of a wife would have a sexual affair with her husband's best friend? This is really sick and she knew that it would be a double betrayal to you and putting your health at risk for STD's as well. She knew she was engaging in this behavior that would emotionally kill you and did it anyway. Is it possible that she engaged in this affair because she knew even if she got caught you would forgive her anyway so there was nothing to lose?

If the roles had been reversed do you honestly think that your wife would have been so accepting and forgiving as you have been? What gave her permission to think it was acceptable to be screwing another man and your best friend at that. I am sorry but she has a broken moral compass. In addition, she lied to your face and tried to make you think you were crazy. This is really sick. I bet she and your best friend was having a good laugh over this. I think you need to consult an attorney just to understand your options. Right now it seems like you have given her a free pass and there have been not enough consequences to her actions. Why was she willing to destroy your marriage?


----------



## norajane

> I found all of this out last Sunday night


Since this just happened, you have a long road ahead of you. You don't have to decide right now what you want to do about your marriage. 

Don't be in a hurry to make decisions - you will probably go through a roller-coaster of emotions, repeatedly, after the shock wears off. You have the right to change your mind about what you want to do or don't want to do. You don't have to decide anything right now.

While it is true that your marriage might not have been in the best of shape leading up to the affair, cheating is not an automatic response to trouble in a marriage. That's a choice she made INSTEAD OF working with you to make your marriage better. You are partially responsible for the state of your marriage, but she is 100% responsible for her decision to cheat on you. 

Your wife has poor conflict resolution skills, poor boundaries, and poor judgment. She might need to go into counseling herself to work through her own issues, as well as marriage counseling with you. 

Whatever she might say now, she chose your best friend for this. Sure, he might have been "convenient" but she knew that having sex with your best friend would hurt you MORE than if she'd had an affair with someone you didn't know. Consider why she would want to compound the pain of an affair by having it with your best friend - why did she want to hurt you _that _bad? Or, why didn't she care how much more it would hurt you? 

Do you have children? Send them away to the grandparents for a while when you get to the point that your shock wears off and your anger hits. Or send them to summer camp or something. This will be a very difficult time for you and your wife and it might be best to shield them from the raw pain and anguish.

You can get through this, but you are in no place to make decisions about forgiveness right now. It's a common reaction for the BS to want to "save" the marriage when they first hear of the affair; don't feel bad about yourself if you find that you change your mind about that or see that you really just can't live with it.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Will_Kane

You think your wife only had sex three times with your best friend, then your wife ended it, then he came to your house to tell your wife that he is in love with her.

Can you see how that does not make sense?

He is not likely to be so madly in love to come to your house to woo her away from you after only three sexual encounters.

Getting the truth about the extent of the affair happens literally one out of a thousand times on these forums. If they say it lasted three weeks, it usually means it lasted six months; if they say they only had sex three times, it usually means they had sex 30 times. They all say the other person pursued them and they finally gave in.

Even when they confess unprompted out of guilt, when they start to tell you and see the hurt, they can't help but minimize.

If you want to get the truth out of your wife, tell her you will be scheduling a polygraph on the key details - how long the affair lasted, how many times, etc. Then do it.

In my opinion it is important to show her that you will not accept her lies about the affair and you really will not be a doormat anymore.


----------



## Will_Kane

One thing that may help you get over the affair is to have your wife handwrite a "no contact" letter to the other man. In the letter, she should state how horribly ashamed she is of her behavior and how terrible she feels for risking your marriage and hurting the person she loves the most in this world, her husband. She should include in the letter that the other man should never try to contact her again and that, if he does, she will file harassment charges against him. She should sign the letter and give it to you along with an envelope addressed to the other man for you to mail.

Tell her if the other man tries to contact her, she must not respond and must let you know immediately.

Another thing is to remove triggers. Any undergarments/clothes she wore to be sexy for the other man should be thrown away. Where did the sexual encounters take place? If they were in your house, it might help to get rid of the mattress or couch where the sex happened.

She does seem like she's trying to help you get over it. Just don't be fooled - all of the "tracking" and "spy" type stuff you have in place is pretty easily beatable. For example, she could leave a phone with gps at work, in the car, etc., to fool you about her location.

Exposure to her parents at this point is kind of a preemptive move. If she has a moment of weakness and contacts the other man or he contacts her and she doesn't tell you about it, which happens way more often than not, it helps if her parents know the situation ahead of time. They can support your marriage and help keep her from straying. It's not an immediate concern, but things can change quicklyl. As you try to reconcile, there will be many arguments and difficulties. Also, her cheating is the truth. Part of healing is owning up to the truth of our own actions.


----------



## morituri

bryanp said:


> I think there is a huge problem here. First, what kind of a wife would have a sexual affair with her husband's best friend? This is really sick and she knew that it would be a double betrayal to you and putting your health at risk for STD's as well. She knew she was engaging in this behavior that would emotionally kill you and did it anyway. Is it possible that she engaged in this affair because she knew even if she got caught you would forgive her anyway so there was nothing to lose?


I don't believe that most cheaters are so choosy as far as their selection of an AP is concerned. The OM just happens to be at the right place at the right time to take advantage of the situation. In this situation, the OP just happened to be the OP's "best friend".


----------



## JustWaiting

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I walked in on my wife and my best friend/best man. It's been 2 1/2 years. We are together. It has not been easy but I'm glad we R. You are spot on in talking with your mother and having your W talk with your mother. Without my mother, I don't think my wife and I would be together today. Experience and wisdom go a long way. 

It's good to hear that your W wants to read up on how to have a better marriage. It truly takes two.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## the guy

I've had this taste of double betrayal and it sucks. Its been 2 yrs since I confronted my fWW and R is going great. We both have become better spouses, and Mrs. the_guy has learned alot about her self and has been given the tools through IC to be an emotionally healthy person.

Your chick realy should start some IC, it makes for good preventitive maintence. If you know what I mean?


----------



## morituri

Best friends talk to both spouses and urge them to seek marital counseling to resolve their issues. They don't take advantage of their friends marital problems in order to seduce their friends wives.


----------



## the guy

No kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The night me and the fww had a blow out at the bar infront of everybody, including BF, is the night bf followed fWW in the womens rest room to "comfort" her.

Go figure!


Sorry for the thread jack Mr. A-


----------



## Onmyway

MrArachnid said:


> I feel like less of a man.....and that is difficult.


Try not to feel like that, you are no less of a man for what happened to you.

Adversity does not change who you are, who you are changes adversity.

I want to speak ill of your wife as little as possible, but since my wife did the same thing, and with a friend as well, I feel safe saying that this was an act of cowardice on her part. She showed you that she is less of a woman than you expected, and instead of fixing marital problems or leaving you, she sought solace with someone else, and now it is on her to turn that around. 
Your friend is the one that is less of a man for taking advantage of the problems in your marriage instead of telling you how far the problems have gone.

There is no room in your life for such negativity, I commend you for giving her another chance, I also commend you if you decide to leave her over this, the only thing that will make you less of a man is becoming a doormat, and you don't sound like you are heading towards that.

Keep your head up high brother, and be proud. There are people out there that would never treat you like this, I hope for you and me both that our wives stay true to this path.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

Beowulf said:


> Morrigan and I are still married 20 years later. She had an affair that lasted several months. We are extremely happy and our marriage is indeed stronger. I do trust her but the trust now is different. The trust I had before was based on naivety and the belief that she could never do something so injurious to me. The trust I have now is a more mature trust based on the fact that we are all human, we all can hurt one another and we all have the ability if not the propensity to be selfish. I feel what I have now is more realistic and based on common sense and not blind innocence.


I may be none of my business, so , ignore this if you feel I am overstepping.
But, I have seen this type of trust described by others and, frankly, it perplexes me bothas to how one can really consider this a form of trust, and how one relaxes to the extent it would be neccessary for to enjoy the relationship.
The vigilance required would destroy my ability to let down and be vulnerable to my spouse, such that I wuld feel comfortable just enjoying our life together.
And, it does not meet the definiton of trust,IMO. It is like saying " I trust you, but I do not trust you",IYKNWIM.
Again, I do not mean to offend this poster, but there is no way I can accept what he describes as any form of trust.
It may be a workable, enjoyable enough existence for him and I do not dispute that. But, it does not include trust as I understand trust.


----------



## Chaparral

BigLiam said:


> I may be none of my business, so , ignore this if you feel I am overstepping.
> But, I have seen this type of trust described by others and, frankly, it perplexes me bothas to how one can really consider this a form of trust, and how one relaxes to the extent it would be neccessary for to enjoy the relationship.
> The vigilance required would destroy my ability to let down and be vulnerable to my spouse, such that I wuld feel comfortable just enjoying our life together.
> And, it does not meet the definiton of trust,IMO. It is like saying " I trust you, but I do not trust you",IYKNWIM.
> Again, I do not mean to offend this poster, but there is no way I can accept what he describes as any form of trust.
> It may be a workable, enjoyable enough existence for him and I do not dispute that. But, it does not include trust as I understand trust.



On the other hand, since statistically, 75% of men and women admit they would have an affair if they knew they wouldn't get caught, I would suggest the kind of trust you are hoping for is really a fantasy. And I don't mean to offend you either.

If you want some eye opening info, google infidelity statistics, you will get a few hits.


----------



## Chaparral

Thi is a long list so many may wnat to skip over it. You may find it helpful to print this and study it with your wife. It will give her more insight into what she has done and needs to do. Good luck and prayers to your family.

Understanding Your Betrayed Spouse - A quick reference manual for unfaithful partners.

The Sea of Stress is Difficult to Understand.

YOU BETRAYED YOUR PARTNER. NOW COMES THE FALLOUT.

They discovered your adultery. You ended the affair and promised you’ll never cheat again. But the stress from their emotional devastation lingers. And you don’t see much change – at least, not as much positive change as you expected. Many times, any visible changes are for the worse. You observe them bouncing back and forth like a ping-pong ball, moment to moment, from one emotion to the next. They’re unpredictable. There’s no discernable pattern. Their nerves are frayed. They can’t sleep. They can’t eat. Their thoughts are obsessive. Intrusive visions and flashbacks assault them without warning. They cry at the drop of a hat. They feel empty, used up, exhausted. The stress consumes their energy and their life until they feel like there’s nothing left. It’s terrible.

It’s an ordeal for you to witness their tortured, depressed and angry states, and what’s worse; you don’t know what to do. You’re not alone. Unfaithful spouses never dream they’ll get busted, so when confronted with their adultery they’re always caught by surprise; first by their partners’ knowledge, then by their intense agony. Indeed, unfaithful partners never think about what they’ll face “after” until after. The fact is: Though they inflict it, adulterers are unprepared for the onslaught of their spouses’ overwhelming emotional distress. Is this real? Is this permanent?

As you watch them sink lower and lower, wallowing in an emotional abyss, you wonder where the bottom is, when they will hit it, and if they will ever ascend from it and return to “normal.” You ask yourself, “Is this real?” Then you ask, “Will this ever end?”

The simple answers are: Yes, it is real. And, yes, it will end. But recovery takes a long time, often years, and much depends on you. Can you be remorseful, apologetic, loving, patient, empathetic and soothing over an extended period of time? Can you commit to openness and honesty at all times – and forevermore being faithful to your spouse?

Be honest with yourself: If you can’t or don’t want to get over your affair, if you don’t feel shame and remorse, and if you can’t generously provide appropriate support to your spouse, then now is the time to consider ending your marriage and spare your marital partner further pain. (If this is the case, you need not read any further.)

But if you have put the affair permanently behind you, if you feel and can freely express your remorse and shame for your unfaithfulness, and if you can commit to supporting your spouse through their excruciating anguish, then you have an excellent chance of rebuilding from this disaster you’ve wrought to a happy, satisfying, caring and loving marriage. The following is intended to help you help your partner, and in turn yourself, through this horrible time and jumpstart your journey to recovery.

So, take a couple of deep breaths… and let’s start with three foundational facts:

What you’re seeing in your spouse is a normal reaction to a life-changing event.

Your spouse needs to grieve for as long as it takes in order to recover and heal.

You can be a positive influence on their recovery.

Now, go back and reread them several times. Let them really sink in. When you can repeat them without looking, continue.

Your first mission is to learn.

Learning about your partner’s myriad reactions to your betrayal allows you to recognize, understand and properly respond to them as they occur. Doing so will help you get through
this horrible initial stage, which can last a long time.
Below you’ll find a little of what your spouse is probably experiencing. They may shift from one reaction to another, or they could experience multiple reactions concurrently. And don’t be surprised if they return to previous states many times. Where applicable, we’ve added some tips to help you to assist your partner through this. In some cases, however, there may be little for you to do except to simply “be there.”

Most importantly, remember at all times: Your infidelity has traumatized your spouse. Act accordingly.

SECTION 1 - THE WILD PATCHWORK OF EMOTIONS

DISBELIEF: They expect to wake up any minute from this nightmare. It can’t be true. They don’t believe it. This is natural. They trusted you and don’t want to believe you did what you did. It is common for this to occur in the very first moments of discovery. (Note: If some time elapsed between the discovery of your affair and the confrontation, you may have missed this when it happened, but it is also possible for your spouse to return to disbelief.)

SHOCK: They are numb and often seem dazed. Their emotions are frozen. Their senses are dulled. They go through the motions mechanically, robotically, but can’t seem to apply sufficient concentration to their day-to-day lives.

REALITY: “Oh my God. It really happened.” They feel they’re getting worse. Actually, reality has just set in. It’s as if a ton of bricks just fell on them and they’re buried beneath them. They don’t know where to turn, or can’t. Don’t discount the likelihood that they feel shamed by your infidelity. So, they may be reluctant to seek support from friends and family. Be available to them for emotional support and encourage them to talk freely with anyone they choose. Suggest therapy as a means to help them through their trauma, but never accuse them of “being irrational” or “acting crazy.” Be supportive and encouraging. Commend them for seeking help.

CONFUSION: They’re disoriented. They can’t think straight. They become impatient, disorganized and forgetful. More frequently than usual they go to a room to retrieve something, but once they get there they can’t remember what it was. This is very upsetting to them. Bear with them. Be gentle and be helpful. Help them find their misplaced purse or locate their lost keys. Know that they will eventually come out of the fog. Also be aware that their confusion, as with other states listed here, may be set off or magnified by certain “triggers.” (Note: Read more about “triggers” below.)

PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS: They may sleep or eat too little – or too much. They may suffer physical aches and pains, numbness or weakness. They may feel unusually tense and develop headaches, abnormal tics, twitching or shaking. They may feel sick to their stomach and vomit, or their digestive system may react with constipation or diarrhea. Weight loss is common. Usually the symptoms fade gradually. If these symptoms persist, make sure they check with a doctor to rule out other causes. Encourage them to eat well and to exercise – but don’t nag. You might instead take control of their diet by preparing healthy, well balanced meals. If you don’t cook, take them to restaurants where you know they serve nourishing food and, if necessary, order for them. If they’re not exercising, initiate taking long walks together. It’s a good way to ease them into a healthy exercise regimen, which is always a good stress reliever, and will provide opportunity for you to begin constructively re-establishing your “couplehood.”

CRYING: Deep emotions suddenly well up, seeking release as crying, uncontrollable sobbing and even screaming out loud. Allow them their time for tears. They can help. So can you. When they cry, give them your shoulder. Hug them. Help them through it by gently encouraging them, to “get it all out.” Be certain to verbalize your remorse for causing their pain. They need to hear this from you. (Note: Right now, genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit. That is why you’ll see many more references below. Read “Apologize” in Section 2.)

SELF-CONTROL: They control their emotions to fulfill their responsibilities, or to simply rest from the pain. Self-control can shape and give rhythm to their grieving, but be on the lookout for constant and rigid self-control. It can block healing. They need to reduce their emotional pressure to regain equilibrium. Allow them to vent when it happens. Be aware: Too much self-control means they are storing up much anger and will release it powerfully, like floodwaters breaking through a dam. So don’t be alarmed if they suddenly lash out at you, your affair partner, or even themselves. Understand that the release of anger is necessary to heal. Though it may not feel this way to you when it happens, it’s beneficial.

NEED TO KNOW: They will ask lots of questions. Their curiosity may be insatiable or it may be limited. Different people have different needs and tolerances for information, but they need information to process their trauma, move through it, and move past it.

Let them set the agenda. Whenever they ask a question, whatever they ask, answer honestly and sufficiently. Refusing to answer gives the appearance that you’re still keeping them in the dark, that you still have something to hide. Do not hold anything back. If they discover later that you omitted or hid details, or if the facts they discover don’t match the story you tell, they’ll feel betrayed once again. Follow the delivery of each new piece of hurtful information with an apology, and soothe them with another promise that you’ll never again be unfaithful.

WHY: They ask, “Why did you do this?” They may or may not expect an answer, but they ask repeatedly. If they do want an answer, provide it – and answer honestly. Even if the question is rhetorical, be aware that the question itself, rhetorical or not, is a cry of pain. And each time they feel pain, it should be answered with another apology. (I can’t stress enough how important this is.) Be aware: Even if they are not verbalizing this to you, they are still silently asking the question “Why?” over and over and over again.

INJUSTICE: They feel it’s all so unfair. You invited danger, you took the risk, but they suffered injury. They want justice and begin to think like a vigilante. They may harbour a secret desire to do harm to you or your affair partner. They may want to get even by having a “revenge affair.”
Understand that the aftermath of your unfaithfulness is an agony you have thrust upon them. Meanwhile, despite your betrayal and deceit, and the shame you feel, you and your affair partner may retain fond or even loving memories of your affair. One of my patients described her feelings of injustice this way: “I feel like a rape victim watching helplessly as the jury returns a ‘not guilty’ verdict. Then, the assailant looks at me, points his finger at me and laughs all the way out of the courtroom. How can this possibly happen?”

A sad truth of infidelity is: It is unfair. Of course, there is no “justice” that can come from this. Betrayed spouses generally settle into this realization on their own, but they need to know that you understand how this plagues them. (Note: Read “Share your feelings of guilt and shame” in Section 2. It explains the best way to help them through their sense of injustice.)

INADEQUACY: Their self esteem is shattered. They feel belittled, insignificant, and often even unlovable. Just as you would crumple a piece of scrap paper and toss it in the garbage without a second thought, they feel you crushed them, discarded them, and didn’t give them a second thought, either. So, they question their own value. They wonder if you truly love them – or if anyone could. They need to know why you now choose them over your affair partner, even if they don’t ask. Make your case convincingly. Be generous, but be genuine. They’ll know if you aren’t, and false flattery for the purpose of mere appeasement will only hurt them more.

REPEATING: Over and over again, they review the story, thinking the same thoughts. Do not attempt to stop them. Repeating helps them to absorb and process the painful reality. You can help them get through it by answering all their questions truthfully and filling in all the gaps for them. The more they know – the more they can repeat the complete story – the faster they process it, accept it and begin to heal. If the story remains incomplete or significant gaps are filled in later, they may have to start the process all over again.

IDEALIZING: Sometimes they remember only good memories, as if their time with you was perfect. They long to live in the past, before the affair came along and “messed it up.” Assure them that you, too, remember the good times, and want things to be good again. Remind them that you want an even better future, that you are willing to work at it, and, most importantly, that you want your future with them – and not your affair partner.

FRUSTRATION: Their past fulfillments are gone. They haven’t found new ones yet and don’t seem interested in finding any. They feel they’re not coping with grief “right” or they feel they should be healing faster. They don’t understand why the pain returns again and again. They wonder if they will ever recover and feel better. You can help them by verbalizing what they need to hear even if you don’t or can’t fully understand it yourself. Be empathetic and assure them that under the circumstances they’re doing okay. Remember that despite how much you have hurt them, you are still the one they chose as their life partner, for better or for worse. You may still be their closest confidante. As incongruous as it may seem, don’t be surprised if they choose to confide in you over others.

BITTERNESS: Feelings of resentment and hatred toward you and your paramour are to be expected. Don’t be surprised if they redirect much of the anger that’s really meant for you toward your paramour. This is natural. It’s actually a way of protecting their love for you during the early stages. By restricting their anger toward you, they allow it to be time-released, and only in smaller, more manageable amounts. Expect their anger to surface periodically, and give them plenty of time to work through it so they can eventually let go of it. Understand that until they’ve worked through and exhausted their anger, they cannot heal.

WAITING: The initial struggle is waning, but their zest for life has not returned. They are in limbo, they are exhausted and uncertain. Indeed, life seems flat and uninteresting. They are unenthused about socializing, perhaps reluctant, and they are unable to plan activities for themselves. Help them by finding ways to stimulate them. Plan activities for them around things that hold their interest and bring joy back into their life.

EMOTIONS IN CONFLICT: This is one of the most difficult manifestations because there is so much going on at the same time and their feelings do not always synchronize with reality. The most succinct description was provided by the late Shirley Glass, PhD: “One of the ironies of healing from infidelity is that the perpetrator must become the healer. This means that betrayed partners are vulnerable because the person they are most likely to turn to in times of trouble is precisely the source of their danger.” The inherent conflict for a betrayed spouse is obvious, but Dr. Glass also recognized how difficult this balancing act can be for a repentant adulterer: “On the other hand, [unfaithful] partners sometimes find it hard to stay engaged with their spouses when they know they are the source of such intense pain.” The key, of course, is to stay engaged nonetheless. Be supportive and remorseful, and above all… keep talking.

TRIGGERS: Particular dates, places, items and activities can bring back their pain as intensely as ever. It feels like they’re caught in a loop as they relive the trauma. It is emotionally debilitating.

Triggers can cause days and nights of depression, renew anger, and can spark and reignite nightmares, which may make them fear sleeping. Triggers can cause them to question if they will ever again experience life without the anguish. Get rid of all the reminders immediately: Gifts, letters, pictures, cards, emails, clothing… whatever your spouse associates with your affair. Do this with your spouse so they are not left wondering when those triggers may recur. Never cling to anything that bothers your partner. It leaves the impression that your keepsakes and mementos, or any reminders of your affair, are more important to you than they are.

Attend to your partner. Learn what dates, songs, places, etc., are triggers for your partner. Pay attention to your environment: If you hear or see something that you think might be a trigger, assume it is. Each occasion a trigger arises is an appropriate moment for you to communicate a clear and heartfelt message that you’re sorry you acted so selfishly and caused this recurring pain. So again, apologize and let them know how much you love them. The occurrence of a trigger is also a good opportunity to express that you choose them and not your affair partner, which is important for them to hear. If a trigger occurs in public, you can still wrap your arm around your spouse’s waist or shoulder, or simply squeeze their hand, but verbalize your apology as soon as you are alone again.

It is very important for you to understand and remember this… Triggers can remain active for their entire life. Don’t ever think or insist that enough time has passed that they should be “over it” because another sad truth of infidelity is: Your affair will remain a permanent memory for them, subject to involuntary recall at any time – even decades later. They will NEVER be “over it.” They simply learn to deal with it better as they heal, as you earn back their trust, and as you rebuild your relationship – over time.

SECTION 2 - WHAT ELSE CAN YOU DO TO EASE THEIR PAIN & RELIEVE THEIR STRESS?

Make certain you’ve killed the beast: Your affair must be over, in all respects, completely and forever. You cannot put your marriage in jeopardy ever again. Your spouse has given you a second chance that you probably don’t deserve. That may sound harsh, but think about it this way: Despite any marital problems the two of you experienced, you would certainly understand if they divorced you solely because of your adultery. So assume there will not be a third chance and behave accordingly.

This opportunity you have been bestowed is a monumental gift, particularly considering the anguish you caused them. Treat this gift, and your spouse, with care and due respect: No contact means NO CONTACT OF ANY KIND – EVER.

GET INTO THERAPY: Most attempts to heal and rebuild after infidelity will fail without the assistance of a qualified therapist. Make certain you both feel comfortable with the therapist. You must trust them and have faith in their methodology. Talk about it: If of you are uncomfortable with your therapist at any time, don’t delay – find another. And if need be, yet another. Then stick with it. Save particularly volatile topics for counselling sessions. Your therapist will provide a neutral place and safe means to discuss these subjects constructively. Every so often, think back to where you were two or three months earlier. Compare that to where you are now and determine if you’re making progress. Progress will be made slowly, not daily or even weekly, so do not perform daily or weekly evaluations. Make the comparative periods long enough to allow a “moderate-term” review rather than “short-term.” Expect setbacks or even restarts, and again… stick with it.

APOLOGIZE: Actually, that should read: “Apologize, apologize, apologize.” You cannot apologize too often, but you can apologize improperly. Apologize genuinely and fully. Betrayed spouses develop a finely calibrated “insincerity radar.” A partial or disingenuous apology will feel meaningless, condescending or even insulting, particularly during the months following discovery. Your spouse will feel better if you don’t merely say, “I’m sorry.” To a betrayed spouse that sounds and feels empty. Try to continue and complete the apology by saying everything that’s now salient to your partner: “I’m ashamed I cheated on you and I’m so very sorry. I know that my lying and deceiving you has hurt you enormously. I deeply want to earn back your trust – and I want so much for you to be able, some day, to forgive me.” As noted earlier, right now genuine, complete and repeated apologies are the best “general use” tool you have in your repair kit.

REALIZE YOUR PARTNER WANTS TO FEEL BETTER: There is so much they have to deal with – pain, anger, disappointment, confusion and despair. Their being, their world, is swirling in a black hole of negative feelings. It’s agonizing. They wish it would stop, but they feel powerless to make it go away, which worries them even more. Remember that they can’t help it: Just as they didn’t choose for this to happen, they don’t choose to feel this way. Beyond all the possible feelings described in the section above (and that list may be incomplete in your spouse’s case), even if they don’t understand them, they do recognize that changes are occurring in themselves – and they are frightened by them. As terrible as it is for you to see their ongoing nightmare, it is far worse to live in it. Periodically assure them that you know they will get better, that you are willing to do everything necessary for them to heal and to make your marriage work. Reassure them that you are with them for the duration – no matter how long it takes – and that you intend to spend the rest of your life with them.

HIDE NOTHING, OPEN EVERYTHING: While they’re greatly angered and hurt that you were emotionally and/or sexually involved with another person, they are even more devastated by your secret life, your lies and deception. They feel no trust in you right now – and they’re 100% justified. If ever there was someone in the world they felt they could trust, it was you – until now. Now, they have difficulty believing anything you say. They are driven to check up on everything. Let them. Better still, help them. Overload them with access. The era of “covering your tracks” must end and be supplanted by total and voluntary transparency.

You must dismantle and remove every vestige of secrecy. Offer your spouse the passwords to your email accounts – yes, even the secret one they still don’t know about. Let them bring in the mail. If you receive a letter, card or email from your paramour, let your spouse open it. If you receive a voice or text message on your cell phone, let them retrieve it and delete it. If your friends provided alibis for you, end those friendships. Do not change your phone bill to a less detailed version or delete your browser history. Provide your spouse with your credit card bills, bank account statements, cell phone bills and anything else you think they might wish to check. Immediately tell them if you hear from or accidentally run into your affair partner. Tell them where you are going, when you’ll be home, and be on time. If your plans change, notify them immediately.

The more willing you are to be transparent, the more honesty and openness they see and feel, the more “trust chits” you’ll earn. Replacing your previously secret life with complete openness is the fastest and most effective way to promote trust, even if it feels unfair or uncomfortable. Think of this as the “reverse image” of your affair: Your affair was about you selfishly making yourself feel good. Now, rebuilding trust is about selflessly making your partner feel safe with you – and you were certainly unfair to them. Keep in mind that eventually they will trust you again, but you must earn it and it will take time.

SPEND LOTS TIME WITH THEM: Assume that they want your company at all times. The more time you spend in their sight, the more they will feel a sense of safety, if only for that time. There may be times when you feel they’re a constant, perhaps even an annoying presence. Just remember that they need to be around you – more than ever. If they need time alone, they’ll let you know and you must respect that, too. Knowing where you are and who you are with reduces worry, but expect them to check up on you. Don’t take offence when this happens. Instead, welcome the opportunity: Think of each time – and each success – as receiving a check mark in the “Passed the Test” column. The more check marks you earn, the closer you are to being trusted again.

PHYSICAL CONTACT: They may or may not want to be sexual with you. If not, allow sufficient time for them to get comfortable with the idea of renewed intimacy and let them set the pace. But if so, don’t be discouraged if the sex is not optimum. They’re likely to be low on confidence and may feel self-conscious or inept. They may even act clumsily. This can be offset by lots of simple, soothing physical gestures such as hugging them, stroking them softly and providing kisses. You might try surprising them sexually. Try something new. Choose moments when they don’t expect it – it can feel fresh again. On the other hand, don’t be surprised if their sexual appetite and arousal is unusually heightened as some partners experience what’s called ‘Hysterical Bonding.’ Also be aware that during lovemaking they may suffer intrusive thoughts or mental images of you and your affair partner, so they may suddenly shut down or even burst into tears. Again, apologize for making them feel this way. Express that you choose them – and not your affair partner. Reassure them by emphasizing that they are the only one you truly want.

SHARE YOUR FEELINGS OF GUILT AND SHAME: If you exhibit no shame or guilt for hurting them, they’ll wonder if you’re truly capable of being sensitive, caring or even feeling. They may see you as callous and self-absorbed, and question if it’s really worth another try with you. But if you’re like most people who have badly hurt someone you truly love, then you certainly feel shame and guilt, though verbalizing it may be hard for you. Of course, some people do find it difficult to express these feelings, but try. You’ll find it provides a great sense of relief to share this with your partner. Moreover, do not fail to realize is how vitally important it is for your partner to hear it, to feel it, to see it in your eyes. It’s a building block in the reconstruction of trust and the repair of your marriage. Do not underestimate the power of satisfying their need to know that you are disappointed in yourself. Your opening up about this will help them feel secure again, help them to heal, and help you heal, too.

LET THEM KNOW YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR CHOICE TO RECOMMIT: You probably think this is obvious, but to your betrayed partner, precious little is obvious anymore. They will wonder about this. Do not make them guess, and do not make them ask. Just tell them. If it doesn’t seem to come naturally at first, it may help if every now and then, you ask yourself, “If they had betrayed me this way, would I still be here?” (Most of us would answer, “No,” even if we can’t imagine being in that position.) When people give second chances to others, they really want to know that it’s meaningful to, and appreciated by, the recipient. So, express your thanks. Tell them how grateful you are for the opportunity to repair the damage you’ve done and rebuild your marriage. You’ll be surprised how much this simple, heartfelt act of gratitude will mean to them, and how it helps to re-establish the bond between you.

HERE’S A GREAT TIP: You will find it’s particularly meaningful to them when they’re obviously feeling low, but they’re locked in silence and aren’t expressing it to you. Just imagine… In their moments of unspoken loneliness or despair, you walk up to them, hug them and say, “I just want you to know how grateful I am that you’re giving me a second chance. Thank you so much. I love you more than ever for this. I’ve been feeling so ashamed of what I did and how much pain I caused you. I want you to know that I’ll never do anything to hurt you like this – ever again. I know I broke your heart and it torments me. I want you to know your heart is safe with me again.”

These are beautifully comforting words, particularly when they’re delivered at such a perfect
moment. You can memorize the quote, modify it, or use your own words, whatever is most
comfortable for you. The key is to include, in no particular order, all six of these components:

A statement of gratitude.

An expression of your love.

An acknowledgment of your spouse’s pain.

An admission that you caused their pain.

An expression of your sense of shame.

A promise that it will never happen again

Unfaithful spouses I’ve counselled often report that this most welcome surprise is the best thing they did to lift their partner’s spirits – as well as their own.

SECTION 3 - SO WHAT ARE THE NEXT STAGES, AFTER THEY WORK THROUGH ALL THEIR GRIEF, PAIN AND STRESS?

HOPE: They believe they will get better. They still have good days and bad days, but the good days out balance the bad. Sometimes they can work effectively, enjoy activities and really care
for others.

COMMITMENT: They know they have a choice. Life won’t be the same, but they decide to actively begin building a new life.

SEEKING: They take initiative, renewing their involvement with former friends and activities. They
begin exploring new involvements.

PEACE: They feel able to accept the affair and its repercussions, and face their own future.

LIFE OPENS UP: Life has value and meaning again. They can enjoy, appreciate, and anticipate events. They are willing to let the rest of their life be all it can be. They can more easily seek and find joy.

FORGIVENESS: While the memory will never leave them, the burden they’ve been carrying from your betrayal is lifted. Given what you have done, the pain it caused them and the anguish they lived through, this is the ultimate gift they can bestow. They give it not only to you, but to themselves. Be grateful for this gift – and cherish it always.

Rejoice in your renewed commitment to spend your lives together in happiness. Celebrate it together regularly!


----------



## Chaparral

You also need to read this if it hasn't already been suggested.

Amazon.com: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 (9781460981733): Athol Kay: Books


----------



## humanbecoming

MrArachnid said:


> Well funny you would say that about the STD's....she and I have herpes....so it was a bit nice in a revenge way.....to text my friend to let him know that since she didn't tell him.



I have read allot of threads in CWI, and this comment has to be the best!


----------



## morituri

Onmyway said:


> Adversity does not change who you are, who you are changes adversity.


Indeed. To quote the_guy "Don't let her affair define who you are".



> Your friend is the one that is less of a man for taking advantage of the problems in your marriage instead of telling you how far the problems have gone.


Correct. The so called friend is the one who is less of a man because a real man values honor, trust, loyalty and character.


----------



## BigLiam

chapparal said:


> On the other hand, since statistically, 75% of men and women admit they would have an affair if they knew they wouldn't get caught, I would suggest the kind of trust you are hoping for is really a fantasy. And I don't mean to offend you either.
> 
> If you want some eye opening info, google infidelity statistics, you will get a few hits.


Thanks> That is shocking, indeed. 
So, what form of trust is ther , other than complete trust. The word, itself, means that I should not have to worry about being intentionally hurt by my spouse, to me.
Are we all living under some type of cruel delusion,that it is possible to have a spouse who wiil not cheat? Why take vows?


----------



## Mario Kempes

Beowulf said:


> Morrigan and I are still married 20 years later. She had an affair that lasted several months. We are extremely happy and our marriage is indeed stronger. I do trust her but the trust now is different. The trust I had before was based on naivety and the belief that she could never do something so injurious to me. The trust I have now is a more mature trust based on the fact that we are all human, we all can hurt one another and we all have the ability if not the propensity to be selfish. I feel what I have now is more realistic and based on common sense and not blind innocence.


Beowulf, I think that you and Morrigan are wonderful. I never tire of reading your posts, where you're telling us about what happened to the two of you and how you came out the other side, much stronger. 

I think you both are inspirational and we're all very lucky to have your constant input on TAM. You give hope to everyone here. Take a bow!


----------



## BigLiam

Mario Kempes said:


> Beowulf, I think that you and Morrigan are wonderful. I never tire of reading your posts, where you're telling us about what happened to the two of you and how you came out the other side, much stronger.
> 
> I think you both are inspirational and we're all very lucky to have your constant input on TAM. You give hope to everyone here. Take a bow!


I am happy for their recovery. However, there is hope regardless of reconciliation.
It took me 5 years to recover fully. But, life without a cheating spouse is also beautiful.
For folks who either cannot reconcile due to their WS's lack of remorse , or for those exceedingly healthy individuals for whom cheating is an absolute dealbreaker(one therapist told me folks with this mindset have the best prospects of fully recovering ), just wait and odds are you will be happy again.


----------



## Chaparral

BigLiam said:


> Thanks> That is shocking, indeed.
> So, what form of trust is ther , other than complete trust. The word, itself, means that I should not have to worry about being intentionally hurt by my spouse, to me.
> Are we all living under some type of cruel delusion,that it is possible to have a spouse who wiil not cheat? Why take vows?


If your sitting in a fort,you can reasonably expect that fortto keep out the enemy. But, you still stay on the lookout. 

As always, trust but verify. Most importantly have boundaries. So many people here get into trouble because they haveno idea who, what, where their spouse is and what they are doing. My favorite is expecting your spouse to go out drinking with "friends" and thinking nothing is goingto happen.

Also, I saw a qoute tonight that 1 out of 4 affairs happen with someone they work with. One wife here butt dialed her husband while having sex on her lunch hour.


----------



## Chaparral

BigLiam said:


> I am happy for their recovery. However, there is hope regardless of reconciliation.
> It took me 5 years to recover fully. But, life without a cheating spouse is also beautiful.
> For folks who either cannot reconcile due to their WS's lack of remorse , or for those exceedingly healthy individuals for whom cheating is an absolute dealbreaker(one therapist told me folks with this mindset have the best prospects of fully recovering ), just wait and odds are you will be happy again.


Another study sys 80% of the people who divorce over an affair wish they had stayed married and worked it out.


----------



## Entropy3000

BigLiam said:


> Thanks> That is shocking, indeed.
> So, what form of trust is ther , other than complete trust. The word, itself, means that I should not have to worry about being intentionally hurt by my spouse, to me.
> Are we all living under some type of cruel delusion,that it is possible to have a spouse who wiil not cheat? Why take vows?


Complete trust is naive, lazy and ambivalent IMO.

Yes this is a delusion but it is because you do not yet understand how EAs occur and that two people can indeed fall in love together without intending to cheat.

This is what you are missing. It is a very big thing to miss unfortunately. You either put in the work to protect you and your partner or you choose not to. Spouses can see things in our behavior and the behaviors of others we have tunnel vision for. That is it in a nutshell. A marriage is stronger if the spouses are true partners with transparency who look out for one another. YMMV.


----------



## TBT

Entropy3000 said:


> Complete trust is naive, lazy and ambivalent IMO.
> 
> Yes this is a delusion but it is because you do not yet understand how EAs occur and that two people can indeed fall in love together without intending to cheat.
> 
> This is what you are missing. It is a very big thing to miss unfortunately. You either put in the work to protect you and your partner or you choose not to. Spouses can see things in our behavior and the behaviors of others we have tunnel vision for. That is it in a nutshell. A marriage is stronger if the spouse are true partners with transparency who look out for one another. YMMV.


:iagree:

Complacency doesn't make for a strong,healthy marriage.


----------



## Beowulf

Entropy3000 said:


> Complete trust is naive, lazy and ambivalent IMO.
> 
> Yes this is a delusion but it is because you do not yet understand how EAs occur and that two people can indeed fall in love together without intending to cheat.
> 
> This is what you are missing. It is a very big thing to miss unfortunately. You either put in the work to protect you and your partner or you choose not to. Spouses can see things in our behavior and the behaviors of others we have tunnel vision for. That is it in a nutshell. A marriage is stronger if the spouse are true partners with transparency who look out for one another. YMMV.


Thank you. I couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## BigLiam

I have to disagree that it is either lazy or irresponsible to expect one's spouse to keep his or her vows.
I agree, people should work to meet each others' needs. So, complacency in that regard is not a good idea.
But, trust is another matter altogether. A spouse with integrity will not allow him or herslef to take all the steps that lead to limerance. 
The fort analogy does not work for me. The fort is inanimate and incapable of making choices. It may have weaknesses, but, of course, one should expect that as a possibility.
I suppose it is just me. But, I have no desire to be with someone who does not love or respect me.
I would bet that the vast majority of the betrayed spouse here felt they were giving their best effort to the marriage and their spouse. I do not know what i could have done differently. I was kind and responsible. I considered my XW's feeling and tried to meet her needs, as I knew them. I kept myself fit, helped around the house and with the kids. I supported my wife's need for time off etc.
I just cannot go through life in a relationship where I have to watch for other men.
As many of us know, we betrayeds, often, had ample opportunity to step out.
My idea of a marriage does not include being on the lookout for my spouse cheating. And Iam far from lazy or complacent.


----------



## morituri

BigLiam,

Even people who believe themselves incapable of having an affair fell into one because they violated marital boundaries. You can be close to perfect as a husband can become and yet not be able to prevent your wife from having an affair if she chooses to act like a frog that leaps into a pot of slow boiling water.


----------



## Beowulf

BigLiam said:


> I just cannot go through life in a relationship where I have to watch for other men.
> 
> *You have the wrong idea. I don't watch out for other men. As a man I can see things that my wife cannot. And she sees things that I cannot from a woman's point of view. I watch her back and she watches mine. Isn't that what a partnership is all about? We have a conscious marriage. We actively feed it and nurture it. In other words, now that our eyes have been opened we both work as hard on staying married as we did on getting married.*
> 
> My idea of a marriage does not include being on the lookout for my spouse cheating. And Iam far from lazy or complacent.
> 
> *And yet statistics show that infidelity is very common. So what is better, living with the reality that people aren't perfect or cutting yourself off and refusing to open your heart to give and receive love. I don't worry about Morrigan cheating on me even though its always a possibility. She had to work very hard to restore my trust and rebuild the marriage. When you put that kind of effort into something its very unlikely that you will toss it away so easily. Combine that with what I wrote above and my marriage is as bulletproof as it can be. That said, Morrigan knows if she ever broke my trust again we would be done. If she is willing to go down that road again there is nothing I can do to stop her. I wouldn't even try. I would file for divorce in a nanosecond. And because I have worked on strengthening myself I also know I would come out of a divorce healthy and enlightened. In the meantime we live, we love and we learn.*


----------



## Entropy3000

Integrity of the spouses AND of the marriage is critical. It is what it is all about. 

Some ways we can keep integrity are :

1) Having the right character to work towards the best interests of the marriage. This has to do with both good intentions AND the willingness to put in the work. It is also about being unselfish. Putting the marriage above all else. This is essential. Betrayal is wrong. If we have character we know this. We then take the steps to avoid betrayal. This als takes knowledge of what some possible steps are.

AND

2) Having the proper boundaries to avoid risky relationships where we can bond inappropriately with others. Just making relationship decisions by how we feel at the moment is a huge mistake. Having weak boundaries is flat wrong and selfish. Boundaries enable trust.

AND

3) Having Love and Respect for your partner, yourself and the marriage. Trust is a by product of these and therefore cannot rationally exist without these other two. Both partners must love and respect the other and the marriage. I do like trust. Just not blind trust. Trust is earned and is enabled by our spouses behavior and choices. Along with boundaries trust is enabled by transparency and communication.

AND

4) Partnership. A marriage is about two people who stand together. They are stronger together than apart. They meet each others needs. This reduces vulnerabilities. They look out for one another. This is a situation where trust can play a big role. If one spouse notices something inca relationship they are not comfortable with the other spouse should respect that, put the marriage first and trust that their spouse sees something that puts them in danger. Of course partnership goes much further. It infers joint behavior. I like the Policy Of Joint Agreement. Not single behavior.

All this said. Please do not misundertand my view here. It is very reasonable to expect our partner to honor their vows. However, we have to be savvy to know what it takes to protect our marriage from the challenges that come to it. We are stronger as a couple than as disparate individuals who just expect the other to live up to their bargain all on their own. It is putting on our adult pants and understanding that vigilance, transparency and communication are essential. This is being pragmatic. I wish it were otherwise. We are human and we can make bad choices. And yes there are bad people out there. Cheaters who will not honor their vows intentionally. I am not talking about them. They are toxic.

Now if someone cheats it is no way is the fault of the BS. It is all on the cheater. The above comments though are what a couple can do to avoid some common pitfalls in a marriage that unfortunately can lead to betrayal.
It helps with integrity.

I know I am coming on strong here. These are just my feelings but please do consider the above.


----------



## MrArachnid

morituri said:


> I don't believe that most cheaters are so choosy as far as their selection of an AP is concerned. The OM just happens to be at the right place at the right time to take advantage of the situation. In this situation, the OP just happened to be the OP's "best friend".



That is how I am seeing this. All she has done all day today is cry and apologize....she came clean about more details and has agreed to write letters. I wasn't happy to learn about the video on the OM's phone....which she said she asked him to delete immediately.....so I have a terrible feeling that this S**t storm is far from past.

I am catching myself in thousand yard stares......I am trying to get the images out of my head......the idea of the video and the content she confessed was on it.....has me reeling now. She wants to work this out, as do I, but I am having a very difficult time with this latest piece of information.

F**K ME!!


----------



## BigLiam

I have no problem with the concept of watching each others' backs. Yet, to me, that seems entirely different that watching my spouse for signs of danger that he or she is inviting into the relationship.
The stats on infidelity vary , but I agree it is much more prevalent than I had ever imagined. Yet, the frequency is not so great that it is impossible to find someone that would not go down that road,IMO.
I think a lot of my philosophy on this stems from the fact that i do not subscribe to the dopamine/limerance theory all that much. I know chemicals are released. But, I also know that before a person gets to that stage where her brain is being bombarded with these chemicals, she has to take a lot of interim steps, consciously.
The best thing I think I can do is to go very slowly in courtship,postponing intimacy until i feel i really know the person and her history. There are signs, sometimes, in a person's history and attitudes etc that can alert one. I know they are not foolproof, but one can reduce the odds of getting involved with a cheater.
for me, these rare : a lot of promiscuity; any hsitory of any form of infidelity(either with a past partner or having interferred in someone elses relationship) and poor communication skills. 
Also, a lack of integrity in other areas, like inconsitencies in stories, or dishonesty in financial or other matters.


----------



## keko

WTF? What kind of a friend would tape ***ing his buddies wife. F'd up world we live in.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Louisville Slugger , but I'm biased.


----------



## jh52

keko said:


> WTF? What kind of a friend would tape ***ing his buddies wife. F'd up world we live in.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You think you hear it all. World is getting F'd up more every day !!


----------



## BigLiam

Entropy3000 said:


> Integrity of the spouses AND of the marriage is critical. It is what it is all about.
> 
> Some ways we can keep integrity are :
> 
> 1) Having the right character to work towards the best interests of the marriage. This has to do with both good intentions AND the willingness to put in the work. It is also about being unselfish. Putting the marriage above all else. This is essential. Betrayal is wrong. If we have character we know this. We then take the steps to avoid betrayal. This als takes knowledge of what some possible steps are.
> 
> AND
> 
> 2) Having the proper boundaries to avoid risky relationships where we can bond inappropriately with others. Just making relationship decisions by how we feel at the moment is a huge mistake. Having weak boundaries is flat wrong and selfish. Boundaries enable trust.
> 
> AND
> 
> 3) Having Love and Respect for your partner, yourself and the marriage. Trust is a by product of these and therefore cannot rationally exist without these other two. Both partners must love and respect the other and the marriage. I do like trust. Just not blind trust. Trust is earned and is enabled by our spouses behavior and choices. Along with boundaries trust is enabled by transparency and communication.
> 
> AND
> 
> 4) Partnership. A marriage is about two people who stand together. They are stronger together than apart. They meet each others needs. This reduces vulnerabilities. They look out for one another. This is a situation where trust can play a big role. If one spouse notices something inca relationship they are not comfortable with the other spouse should respect that, put the marriage first and trust that their spouse sees something that puts them in danger. Of course partnership goes much further. It infers joint behavior. I like the Policy Of Joint Agreement. Not single behavior.
> 
> All this said. Please do not misundertand my view here. It is very reasonable to expect our partner to honor their vows. However, we have to be savvy to know what it takes to protect our marriage from the challenges that come to it. We are stronger as a couple than as disparate individuals who just expect the other to live up to their bargain all on their own. It is putting on our adult pants and understanding that vigilance, transparency and communication are essential. This is being pragmatic. I wish it were otherwise. We are human and we can make bad choices. And yes there are bad people out there. Cheaters who will not honor their vows intentionally. I am not talking about them. They are toxic.
> 
> Now if someone cheats it is no way is the fault of the BS. It is all on the cheater. The above comments though are what a couple can do to avoid some common pitfalls in a marriage that unfortunately can lead to betrayal.
> It helps with integrity.
> 
> I know I am coming on strong here. These are just my feelings but please do consider the above.


I agree with much of this. But, real trust( blind sounds a bit pejorative, but maybe accurate) is desirable to me.
I am sorry for diverting this discussion.


----------



## jh52

MrArachnid said:


> That is how I am seeing this. All she has done all day today is cry and apologize....she came clean about more details and has agreed to write letters. I wasn't happy to learn about the video on the OM's phone....which she said she asked him to delete immediately.....so I have a terrible feeling that this S**t storm is far from past.
> 
> I am catching myself in thousand yard stares......I am trying to get the images out of my head......the idea of the video and the content she confessed was on it.....has me reeling now. She wants to work this out, as do I, but I am having a very difficult time with this latest piece of information.
> 
> F**K ME!!


WOW -- Just WOW !!


----------



## keko

MrA I can't say it but you know what to do.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

I am quite ancient. But, I find it somewhat shocking all the videotaping and sexting ala Brett Favre, that people seem to do now.
Why would your wife allow this?


----------



## bryanp

Interesting how the trickle truth coming out is worse and worse. Really she knew exactly what she was doing and with him. Most woman know that many times just crying will make a man wilt.

Remaining in this marriage sends a clear message to your wife that you are willing to accept the ultimate in humiliation and disrespect from her. Her actions have shown that she has no respect for you or your marriage. One more time: if you do not respect yourself then who will?


----------



## cledus_snow

a woman does not love a man she does not respect-- plain and simple.

she does not respect you! you do the math.


----------



## Badblood

Spider, regardless of all of the well-meaning posts about getting over an affair, you are in the beginning stages and need to know the bottom line, and believe me there is one. The bottom line is this: you need to know how long it was going on, if there were any other men, and how can she prove anything. Do not believe a word she says without proof. Don't blame your friend, because he isn't married to you, your wife is, and everything they did , she agreed to. He was a bad friend, but he made you no vows nor broke any promises to you. Youyr wife is the guilty party and nobody else. The Video is one example of her trying to minimize her guilt. . She may have asked him to delete it, but she knew he was doing it , in the first place, so how does that make it any better? If I were you, I would carefully consider divorce, she clearly cannot be trusted. Her guilt and shame aren't for you , it is fear of losing her home and family. She doesn't truly appear to be remorseful at all.


----------



## jh52

Badblood said:


> Spider, regardless of all of the well-meaning posts about getting over an affair, you are in the beginning stages and need to know the bottom line, and believe me there is one. The bottom line is this: you need to know how long it was going on, if there were any other men, and how can she prove anything. Do not believe a word she says without proof. Don't blame your friend, because he isn't married to you, your wife is, and everything they did , she agreed to. He was a bad friend, but he made you no vows nor broke any promises to you. Youyr wife is the guilty party and nobody else. The Video is one example of her trying to minimize her guilt. . She may have asked him to delete it, but she knew he was doing it , in the first place, so how does that make it any better? If I were you, I would carefully consider divorce, she clearly cannot be trusted. Her guilt and shame aren't for you , it is fear of losing her home and family. She doesn't truly appear to be remorseful at all.


BB == you got to be kidding me. Don't blame his friend !!! His so called friend had a choice not to F his wife -- yet he chose to do it. And to rub it in his face -- he said -- why we F and deceive your husband and my "friend" let me video tape the deed. They both made the choice to do this so one party is not any less guilty than the other.

No -- IMO you are totally wrong here !! No "friend" screws around with his "friends wife" -- NO MATTER WHAT !!!


----------



## Kallan Pavithran

he may be enjoying now watching the video of screwing your wife, wah, What a POS is your wife and your friend, you choose wrong people as your wife and friend.

She is surely in damage control what you got was the tip of the ice berg, prepare yourself for more.

Tell her, enough is enough and give her the D papers.


----------



## Chaparral

MrArachnid said:


> That is how I am seeing this. All she has done all day today is cry and apologize....she came clean about more details and has agreed to write letters. I wasn't happy to learn about the video on the OM's phone....which she said she asked him to delete immediately.....so I have a terrible feeling that this S**t storm is far from past.
> 
> I am catching myself in thousand yard stares......I am trying to get the images out of my head......the idea of the video and the content she confessed was on it.....has me reeling now. She wants to work this out, as do I, but I am having a very difficult time with this latest piece of information.
> 
> F**K ME!!


You need to go to your doctor immediately. Immediate care center even. They can help you with some meds that others on this board say made the world of difference. Also working out,weight lifting is surprisingly effective.

Also, talk to an attorney, even if its to let your wife know what may happen. If she is remorseful and you can reconcile there is a wayward spouse instruction list I can post for you. 

You definitely need IC with a counselor familiar with infiedlity and PTSD. This is the worst thing a person can go through, equal to losing a family member.

This is a rough ride but if you stay strong you will manage with time.


----------



## Shaggy

So it's clear she had no fear of bring caught at all when she let him mske the video. In fact it shows that she trusted him more than she does and did you.

You are getting the trickle truth and it's going to be coming for a long while. I think the tears etc aren't for you or guilt, they are entirely for herself, for being found out, for the loss of her affair. Let me guess lots of poor me, I'm such a bad person, you don't deserve me etc.

Has there been any genuine and lasting concern for you and your emotions?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

Amazon.com: The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011 (9781460981733): Athol Kay: Books


----------



## Complexity

There's a danger is being so forgiving so quickly.


----------



## morituri

Complexity said:


> There's a danger is being so forgiving so quickly.


The danger is not in the forgiving but in allowing for a false R which means allowing things to go back as though the affair never happened (rug sweeping) and forcing himself to give back the trust without her earning it through actions of transparency and commitment to change herself for the better.


----------



## Entropy3000

jh52 said:


> BB == you got to be kidding me. Don't blame his friend !!! His so called friend had a choice not to F his wife -- yet he chose to do it. And to rub it in his face -- he said -- why we F and deceive your husband and my "friend" let me video tape the deed. They both made the choice to do this so one party is not any less guilty than the other.
> 
> No -- IMO you are totally wrong here !! No "friend" screws around with his "friends wife" -- NO MATTER WHAT !!!


Right. It is absurd to not blame the friend. Folks who usually say don't blame the AP assume that lets the WS off the hook. There is plenty of blame to go around. Sorry in this case there was a betrayal of a friend in addition to another man pursuing a married woman. He is double down culpable.


----------



## morituri

Badblood said:


> Don't blame your friend, because he isn't married to you, your wife is, and everything they did , she agreed to. He was a bad friend, but he made you no vows nor broke any promises to you. Your wife is the guilty party and nobody else. The Video is one example of her trying to minimize her guilt. . She may have asked him to delete it, but she knew he was doing it , in the first place, so how does that make it any better? If I were you, I would carefully consider divorce, she clearly cannot be trusted. Her guilt and shame aren't for you , it is fear of losing her home and family. She doesn't truly appear to be remorseful at all.


BB I agree that his wife is mostly to blame but to imply that the person he considered his best friend for 20 years would do something like this, should be excused is wrong.

A friend, especially a best friend, is a recipient of the kind of trust that is very close to that of close family members. By the very nature of being a best friend, the OM was allowed access to the home and friendship with the the OP's wife. A friendship he betrayed in the most foul way by pursuing and seducing the OP's wife during a time of marital hardship. To say that this is not a betrayal of trust and doesn't deserve to be blamed and scorned, is simply wrong.


----------



## Beowulf

Complexity said:


> There's a danger is being so forgiving so quickly.


Absolutely. Forgiveness is earned not given. If she doesn't have to work for forgiveness she won't value it and the danger is that it may happen again.


----------



## bandit.45

So the wife is a cheater and now a porn actress? What happens if the OM posts the video online? Would you put it past him?

Your wife is beyond saving. She and your best friend conspired to humiliate you in the worst way. Beyond selfish.... this is evil.

Divorce her.... yesterday.


----------



## Traggy

This is not salvageable right now. You both need to separate and really see if this is a possibility to save. There are way to many emotions to make any type of rational decision on your part. You need time to process this and accept it to really see if this will work for you at this point. 

Remember, you can love someone and not be with them. Just because you love her, she definitely does not deserve the unconditional part of it right now. She added a crap ton of conditions to it.


----------



## Will_Kane

_That is how I am seeing this. All she has done all day today is cry and apologize....*she came clean about more details *and has agreed to write letters. *I wasn't happy to learn about the video on the OM's phone*....which she said she asked him to delete immediately.....so I have a terrible feeling that this S**t storm is far from past.

I am catching myself in thousand yard stares......I am trying to get the images out of my head......the idea of the video and the content she confessed was on it.....has me reeling now. She wants to work this out, as do I, but I am having a very difficult time with this latest piece of information.

F**K ME!! _

Is she still sticking to the story about only doing it three times, with other man coming to your house to tell her he loves her? Or does she continue to give you trickle truth? If she gives you too much at once, she's afraid you will call it quits. That's why she feeds you a little bit at a time.

Is she still sticking with this nonsensical story:

_Before I knew for sure that she had cheated. *She told me they were together a few times *and she started to feel guilty and broke it off. *After she told him it was over, he came over to our house to tell her he loved her*....she told me that she yelled at him...told him to get the F out and not to bother her anymore. So far the program on her phone supports that she is having no contact with him.

*She told me that when they had sex she was disconnected *and that he was convenient and safe. She said he initiated it the first time.....the second time it was her and the last time it was him again. _

How can you trust her going forward when she continues to lie to you now?


----------



## iheartlife

You need to explain to her that it's about the LYING. That while it might seem like one giant lie to her, it's a million separate lies to you. Cheaters think it's about the sex. They want to "protect" you from the truth. (That is the LIE that they tell themselves so they don't have to confront the horror of what they did.)

Explain to her that she took your trust and smashed it into an infinite number of pieces. That you are trying to pull those pieces back together into some type of recognizable whole. Every time you catch her in a lie, it all falls apart again, only this time the pieces are smaller and you are starting to lose more and more of them. Eventually, there hardly will be any left at all.


----------



## Badblood

Mori and Entropy, I said that this "friend", was a bad one, but that is the easiest part for Arachnid to fix. He just cuts this "friend", out of his life. I fully understand the meaning and role of friends, but I'm trying to help Arachnid deal with his cheating wife, and the "friend", should have no part in that. He should concentrate on one thing at a time. A lot of WS'S will try to minimize their guilt by throwing the OP under the bus, and a surprising number of BS'S buy into it. I don't want Arachnid to make that mistake. Arachnid needs to focus all of his thoughts and feelings on his WW' s behavior, so that he can decide if he wants to take the chance on R or not. Or if she is worthy of another chance. His future depends on his decision and the so-called friendship is just an annoying impediment to clear thinking.


----------



## Whip Morgan

BB, I think everyone understands your point, but it's not as easy to do. This was his best friend, there was an emotional connection there. Had the OM been someone else, Arachnid would have likely turned to his best friend for support. The most recent poster I can think of in a similar situation was Oldmittens, who divorced his wife in order to help heal himself. And as Morituri can attest to, he also owes me an iPad.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is a double betrayal, which is psychologically far more difficult to face than an 'ordinary' affair with someone who is a stranger to the BS.

He must simultaneously lose his closest male friend while dealing with the unfaithfulness to his wife.

There is a sensation that betrayed spouses have right after discovery, as if they are sleep walking through their worst nightmare. Every morning they wake up and for a few seconds they've forgotten and then the shocking recollections come rolling back in.

I cannot imagine how warped reality must be right now for you, Mr.Arachnid. I'm sure someone has already suggested this, but you need to go to doctor ASAP if you haven't already, they will prescribe antidepressants to you the minute you start speaking. You have a tough road ahead and you need your wits about you.


----------



## chillymorn

I woulld have to kick his A$$. Just who I am I could not live with myself the rest of my life if I didn't.

and then If I ever saw him after that it would take a miricle not to do it again.


and this would be a deal breaker for me the marriage would be dead. 

sorry you going through such a sh*ttg ordeal. Best of luck in what ever you decide.


----------



## river rat

MrArachnid said:


> Are any of you still married after an affair? How long has it been? Is the marriage stronger, if you stayed together? Did the trust return or do you still have issues?


Still married. Almost 12 yrs since the event. The marriage is stronger in some ways, in other ways not, just like a normal relationship. I have trust issues anyway, so no, the trust has not returned, at least in the way that it was before. But I have stronger trust in myself.


----------



## river rat

MrA, at a time when your world has gone completely insane, and the the two people you counted on have proven that you cannot count on them, you are behaving in an extraordinarily rational fashion. I commend you. Don't be surprised when you have spells where this is not the case. I sense that you have a great deal of self control, in which you take pride. Be prepared for that self control to crack from time to time. It's all right when it does. That's part of your healing. You really can't know where this is going. Give it time. You're gonna be fine in the long term.


----------



## lordmayhem

MrArachnid said:


> And I will not be lied to again....since I installed a program to her phone that will tell me all that I need to know....GPS, text log, urls visited, calls in and out. So if she ever did do anything ever again....she can't lie to me because I would know and have the proof.


It's good that you've installed spyware on her cell phone, however, you're only relying on one method of verification. It's very easy to buy one of those burner (pay as you go phones), especially if she thinks you're monitoring her cell phone now. Its very common for the WS to have a secret affair phone, ask some of the BSs here. Another secret method is the secret email address. This is why you need a computer monitoring software and a VAR to back up your other method.










Only did it 3 times and decided to come clean because of guilt? Now you found out about a sex video they did? This is just the tip of the iceberg. Trickle Truth for sure. Expect more revelations to come, either thru more disclosure, or from your investigation.


----------



## Shaggy

The sex video shows that their affair had reached a level of trust and commitment where your wife didn't fear having a sex video made of them. Think about that. The OM had to setup the camera and your wife had to go along with it knowingly. Would you accept a camera if you were doing some thing you we're guilt for or worried about? 

And would you imagine the first time you had sex pulling out the camera and taking time to set it up? No, you'd be afraid of her walking out and fuming you. This is true for the second, third , fourth, and so on times. 

The comfort level you need to pull out a camera and record it shows they had a lot of sex.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Eli-Zor

Shaggy said:


> The sex video shows that their affair had reached a level of trust and commitment where your wife didn't fear having a sex video made of them. Think about that. The OM had to setup the camera and your wife had to go along with it knowingly. Would you accept a camera if you were doing some thing you we're guilt for or worried about?
> 
> And would you imagine the first time you had sex pulling out the camera and taking time to set it up? No, you'd be afraid of her walking out and fuming you. This is true for the second, third , fourth, and so on times.
> 
> The comfort level you need to pull out a camera and record it shows they had a lot of sex.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agree. TAM please create a like button for the IPhone
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> So it's clear she had no fear of bring caught at all when she let him mske the video. In fact it shows that she trusted him more than she does and did you.
> 
> You are getting the trickle truth and it's going to be coming for a long while. I think the tears etc aren't for you or guilt, they are entirely for herself, for being found out, for the loss of her affair. Let me guess lots of poor me, I'm such a bad person, you don't deserve me etc.
> 
> Has there been any genuine and lasting concern for you and your emotions?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


She said she didn't know he was videoing until after and he showed her. I tend to believe that....since you're not always facing the other person.


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> She said she didn't know he was videoing until after and he showed her. I tend to believe that....since you're not always facing the other person.


But you do have to turn it on and off and you have to stay on the right place. Besides, a normal reaction would be to freak and demand it be deleted. She did neither. So, I think she's covering for herself.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

Shaggy said:


> But you do have to turn it on and off and you have to stay on the right place. Besides, a normal reaction would be to freak and demand it be deleted. She did neither. So, I think she's covering for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


EXACTLY

this yet another example of "trickle truth"- admitting to what can be proven and soften or omit the rest to protect the affair or the cheater is afraid of the real truth leading to D

best way to stop it is to inform WS that they have one chance to come clean on everything and while that truth may lead to D, anything else pops up down the line then it is _certain_ D


----------



## lordmayhem

Shaggy said:


> But you do have to turn it on and off and you have to stay on the right place. Besides, a normal reaction would be to freak and demand it be deleted. She did neither. So, I think she's covering for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


agreed.

And what about the lighting? Even the best cell phone cameras need bright light when indoors. She's tting for sure.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

I see the myriad of responses and I am not going to call her names. I know what she did is wrong....and I know that she is sorry and has been very attentive to my reactions since I am all over the place.

The panic attacks have yet to go away so I am taking the advice I have read on here and going to the Dr. today. I have counseling with my wife on Thursday. She is making appts. for herself to go alone as am I.

The biggest problem I am having is what I read about "hysterical bonding".....I have been a big ball of arousal....I was a teenage boy once and even then I was never like this. 

I know everything that happened between them( so far)....and I have a hard time with the fact that that he touched her all over....save one area....and now I feel like nothing that was special is special to me. I want something from her to make be believe that I am special.

God this hurts.....


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> EXACTLY
> 
> this yet another example of "trickle truth"- admitting to what can be proven and soften or omit the rest to protect the affair or the cheater is afraid of the real truth leading to D
> 
> best way to stop it is to inform WS that they have one chance to come clean on everything and while that truth may lead to D, anything else pops up down the line then it is _certain_ D


I do have my deal breakers.....as much as I hate to admit this....my second marriage ended because of the exact same thing....my ex F'd my good friend....the difference between this time and that....my wife is showing remorse and wanting to work things out on my terms.

I will lay that out tonight for her.....because as much as it hurts to hear the details ....it has been easier than my imagination...I think I can agree with what you said.


----------



## Shaggy

Yes it really does hurt. The TT makes it even worse since you never know if you've hit bottom yet.

Have her write out a timetime of the affair and then ,Schedule a polygraph for for her. Tell her this is the final clone clean moment and if she has any remaining pity for you, she needs to lay it all out becase the TT is killing you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

wow, and your wife knew that you suffered so much from your ex and then did the same exact thing

my wife sort of did the same thing, she knew how painful being involved in my father's infidelity was for me, yet did it anyways herself


----------



## lordmayhem

That would be great if you can get Full Disclosure. Most of us never get that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> But you do have to turn it on and off and you have to stay on the right place. Besides, a normal reaction would be to freak and demand it be deleted. She did neither. So, I think she's covering for herself.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Well, I know how well lit his house is so it is possible to have made a video without worrying about that.


----------



## Almostrecovered

during R my wife and I agreed to have talks every day where we would be radically honest with each other- the catch was that the other could not get defensive over the truth but would calmly explain the feelings they brought


----------



## MrArachnid

river rat said:


> MrA, at a time when your world has gone completely insane, and the the two people you counted on have proven that you cannot count on them, you are behaving in an extraordinarily rational fashion. I commend you. Don't be surprised when you have spells where this is not the case. I sense that you have a great deal of self control, in which you take pride. Be prepared for that self control to crack from time to time. It's all right when it does. That's part of your healing. You really can't know where this is going. Give it time. You're gonna be fine in the long term.


Thank you....the hardest part of all of this is the only friend I have I can talk to, and have, is in the UK. And he and I used to be really close before he moved. He is/was also friends with the OM.....and he talked to me alot about things I didn't know. 

I am trying very hard ....i break down more often than I have admitted on here....I am a supervisor at work and I hate that I am having to find someplace to hide to cry......when it seems I am not even thinking about it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

any vacation time available?

also you may be surprised how understanding your boss will be if you tell them you need time for what has happened


----------



## lordmayhem

MrArachnid said:


> Well, I know how well lit his house is so it is possible to have made a video without worrying about that.


All the sex was in the daytime then? At least you were spared the pain of watching it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

MrArachnid said:


> Thank you....the hardest part of all of this is the only friend I have I can talk to, and have, is in the UK. And he and I used to be really close before he moved. He is/was also friends with the OM.....and he talked to me alot about things I didn't know.
> 
> I am trying very hard ....i break down more often than I have admitted on here....I am a supervisor at work and I hate that I am having to find someplace to hide to cry......when it seems I am not even thinking about it.


Are you on antidepressants? Have you made a dr. appt?
Being on them is not a sign of weakness. It is a medicine that will help you focus your energy on making good choices, seeing things clearly rather than pure emotional reactions.

We have all been there. You take us back to those moments with your words. We can relate 1000%.


----------



## bandit.45

Getting to the doctor for antidepressents is a good thing.

But you also need intensive counseling for the PTSD. Getting hit with this betrayal twice in your life must be unbelievably painful.

One thing I would address in counseling, is finding out why you tend to pick and fall in love with women who are like this. Maybe you are just unlucky, but I think there is something that attracts you to self-destructive, selfish women, and you need to root it out and deal with it.


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> during R my wife and I agreed to have talks every day where we would be radically honest with each other- the catch was that the other could not get defensive over the truth but would calmly explain the feelings they brought



We also agreed to doing that.....no attitude only calm resolve...its been working so far. Personally, I think that my attitude and demeanor over this has caused her to be more remorseful than she has been showing.


----------



## MrArachnid

iheartlife said:


> Are you on antidepressants? Have you made a dr. appt?
> Being on them is not a sign of weakness. It is a medicine that will help you focus your energy on making good choices, seeing things clearly rather than pure emotional reactions.
> 
> We have all been there. You take us back to those moments with your words. We can relate 1000%.



Yes I am going to the Dr. today after work. My friend in the UK told me yesterday that I need to go...he knows my history and I know he's right.


I know I am venting/expressing my feelings and thoughts....I am sorry if it is bringing up pain for others.


----------



## Almostrecovered

dont be sorry that's why I am here and why the board exists


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Getting to the doctor for antidepressents is a good thing.
> 
> But you also need intensive counseling for the PTSD. Getting hit with this betrayal twice in your life must be unbelievably painful.
> 
> One thing I would address in counseling, is finding out why you tend to pick and fall in love with women who are like this. Maybe you are just unlucky, but I think there is something that attracts you to self-destructive, selfish women, and you need to root it out and deal with it.


PTSD? I have seen others post this too....I guess I would not have thought of that in relation to this.

Yeah, I had done alot of healing through counseling over the previous betrayal....and ALL of those feelings came back....like my hands and feet were tied and I was thrown in to a pool. I see the same counselor and have for years when needed so he knows what has happened to me and I guess I do need to address the self-destructive issues and choices of mates.


----------



## Almostrecovered

you get definite PSTD symptoms when you get hit so hard with betrayal. Read the see your doctor link in my signature and I'll bet you are experiencing most of the symptoms I list.


----------



## MrArachnid

If she really wasn't aware of the video and did in fact insist that it be deleted.....is there any legal recourse if the OM does something stupid...like post it? I know that you can save things to the SD card and make it look like you deleted it. My wife is not all that tech savvy so she may have believed something that was not the facts.


----------



## bryanp

Honestly I am shocked that your wife knew that your previous marriage ended when your wife had sex with your best friend. The fact that she would engage in a sexual affair with your best friend again knowing how incredible painful this would be to you aside from the double betrayal says a great deal about her and sends a powerful message to you. I think you know what that message is. Good luck.


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> you get definite PSTD symptoms when you get hit so hard with betrayal. Read the see your doctor link in my signature and I'll bet you are experiencing most of the symptoms I list.



OH....yeah that is what is going on. the shaking while in panic mode is the hardest to deal with because it hits me with no rhyme or reason. I have many employees under me and part of being a supervisor is that people tell you what is going on in their lives, whether you want to hear it or not, and I had to excuse myself when an employee was in the middle of telling me about something that happened to him and it was not related to my issue....I felt like an @$$ for telling him to hold on a minute...while I went to my office to calm down.


----------



## MrArachnid

bryanp said:


> Honestly I am shocked that your wife knew that your previous marriage ended when your wife had sex with your best friend. The fact that she would engage in a sexual affair with your best friend again knowing how incredible painful this would be to you aside from the double betrayal says a great deal about her and sends a powerful message to you. I think you know what that message is. Good luck.



I know I seem like a chump for wanting to work this out with her and yes she did know about some of what happened in my previous marriage....I hadn't been all that open with my wife about past stuff...so she was not completely aware of all of that.


----------



## Almostrecovered

I seriously recommend taking some time off and getting to the doc asap


----------



## snap

Don't make a decision in haste. You are not anywhere in position yet to think clearly. I agree, take some time off, don't rush blindly into R.


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> I seriously recommend taking some time off and getting to the doc asap


I am doing what I can. We have kids and I cannot afford to take off and when I stay busy I don't think about it as much. I really am going to the Dr. after work. My counselor gave me his personal cell number in case I really have a hard time...so I am doing what I can.

I really appreciate the concern and it is helping to know that I am not the only one who has had to go through this and feel this.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well I dont know your job situation, but some jobs allow paid time for health reasons, maybe check with HR for paperwork and have your doc fill it out if available


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> If she really wasn't aware of the video and did in fact insist that it be deleted.....is there any legal recourse if the OM does something stupid...like post it? I know that you can save things to the SD card and make it look like you deleted it. My wife is not all that tech savvy so she may have believed something that was not the facts.


Yes you can take legal action, if you haven't already, go talk to a lawyer and explain the situation and the existence of this video. A preemptive letter warning him that the video needs to deleted and if it were ever to be released you will be bring a law suit against him for doing it might help.

Have your wife go with you to the lawyer, so she hears the hard facts and has to share with you the pain of even having such a conversation,
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## cledus_snow

i've heard of situations like these before.....the video, i mean.

there is no legal recourse, except when putting a person's likeness in some sort of media venue-- a porn site, for instance.

if she willingly participated in the taping, she has no way of forcing the other party to destroy it. he(OM) has rights to said media, as well.


----------



## Almostrecovered

depending if you believe her or not, she claims she was not a willing participant of being taped and asked it be destroyed


----------



## Shaggy

cledus_snow said:


> i've heard of situations like these before.....the video, i mean.
> 
> there is no legal recourse, except when putting a person's likeness in some sort of media venue-- a porn site, for instance.
> 
> if she willingly participated in the taping, she has no way of forcing the other party to destroy it. he(OM) has rights to said media, as well.


But he cannot distribute it with out her sign off.

Besides the warning letter from the lawyer often scares people enough.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## iheartlife

Shaggy said:


> Have your wife go with you to the lawyer [about the video], so she hears the hard facts and has to share with you the pain of even having such a conversation,
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:iagree: Let her see a third party look at her and let her imagine just what they're thinking about her escapade and how she's treated you. This is the price she paid--she must not be shielded from the brunt of it.


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> well I dont know your job situation, but some jobs allow paid time for health reasons, maybe check with HR for paperwork and have your doc fill it out if available


I don't want to have to talk about this at work. Everyone knows my wife and I, and even though this was her choice, I am sharing the shame and guilt....and I do not want anyone to know at work even HR, who is legally bound to secrecy, to know. It would offend me to have anyone talk bad about my wife, regardless. 

I am doing ok today.....I am going to the Dr.....I have some support systems in place (thanks to all of you fine folks) and I will be on Meds by this evening. 

I am the kind of person who has to stay busy....even with this.


----------



## morituri

My ex-wife's POSOM also did a video of the two of them having sex and uploaded it to her photobucket account. After I found it, I confronted my ex by showing it to her. The look of shock on her face told me that she did not know that the POSOM had fvcked her in more ways the one. She ran to the bathroom and puked her brains out. She finally knew what it feels like to be stabbed in the back.


----------



## cledus_snow

> But he cannot distribute it with out her sign off.


that's what i said. if he does, he can be sued for distributing a person's likeness without consent.

it doesn't stop him from showing it in private, though.




> she claims she was not a willing participant of being taped and asked it be destroyed


if she was in his home while this was going on, it's that much harder to prove she wasn't aware of it. 

this is a total clusterf*ck.


----------



## iheartlife

cledus_snow said:


> that's what i said. if he does, he can be sued for distributing a person's likeness without consent.
> 
> it doesn't stop him from showing it in private, though.
> 
> if she was in his home while this was going on, it's that much harder to prove she wasn't aware of it.
> 
> this is a total clusterf*ck.


I still vote to have her hear this from a lawyer.


----------



## cledus_snow

no doubt they should seek a lawyer.

i'm just telling you he has as much right to that tape, as she does.


the only reason celebrities are able to bar someone from posting their vids, is because they reach a settlement. people get paid-off.


----------



## lordmayhem

cledus_snow said:


> i've heard of situations like these before.....the video, i mean.
> 
> there is no legal recourse, except when putting a person's likeness in some sort of media venue-- a porn site, for instance.
> 
> if she willingly participated in the taping, she has no way of forcing the other party to destroy it. he(OM) has rights to said media, as well.


:iagree:

I think its a lost cause. Once its uploaded to the web, it goes viral and is copied from site to site under different names. And even then, you would have to wade thru tons and tons and tons of amateur submitted porn to locate a particular video. I once looked for tover26's WW, and realized the futility of trying to locate it and just gave up.


----------



## MrArachnid

My father, who went through this and is still married 40 years later, told me that he regretted how he reacted to my mother. I asked him how he dealt with it and he said, "I'm not proud of how I reacted, I made your mother pay." and he begged me not to do the same. He and I are alot alike, as a matter of fact, I got the best and worst of my parents, it's like a 50/50 split. 

I will take her to the lawyer with me about the video. I think that is fair that she hear what the consequences are and have to explain why she didn't know she was being "taped" by the OM.


----------



## bandit.45

Mr. A, does the OM's wife know about the video? What has been her reaction to all this? Is she rugsweeping? I would bring her in on this video fiasco if you can.


----------



## snap

MrArachnid said:


> My father, who went through this and is still married 40 years later, told me that he regretted how he reacted to my mother. I asked him how he dealt with it and he said, "I'm not proud of how I reacted, I made your mother pay." and he begged me not to do the same.


It worked for your father though..


----------



## MrArachnid

You know what really sucks? I turn 40 in a week. I don't normally celebrate my birthday....the only birthday I really celebrated was my 21st. I had considered having a party to celebrate but now....I just don't care. Funny, the reason I don't celebrate my birthday is bad things seemed to happen to close to my birthday so it really became a tainted event for me. The one time I consider doing something because of the milestone....and this.


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Mr. A, does the OM's wife know about the video? What has been her reaction to all this? Is she rugsweeping? I would bring her in on this video fiasco if you can.


It's kinda sick....I did text the OM's wife and she acted like I was making it up. I told he to get tested because of the herpes and she said, "Herpes?, now your reaching!"

I haven't told her about the video. Personally, I am afraid to. The OM used to tell me he worried that his wife had narcissistic personality disorder....laughable now....but given her reaction I don't know what she would do if she knew. They had a F'd up sex life....threeways, gang stuff and the like. And I think OM has beat his wife down emotionally to the point that she will believe anything that he says.

My wife is writing her a letter too. I told my wife she needs to mail it to her work because the OM will intercept if not.


----------



## MrArachnid

snap said:


> It worked for your father though..


Yes, but.....I will not be vindictive. I am going to take the advice and take her to the lawyer about the video. She is writing letters. She agreed to go to counseling, which is a deal breaker if she does not.

She is being put out there in front of others to have to say it out loud. But I won't, I can't make her life hell.....that is not who I have become. I am proud of where I have come from and I will not do anything that will make me feel like I am going backwards.

It's not like I didn't entertain all kinds of thoughts of how to get revenge....but I squash it all and move on.


----------



## Badblood

Arachnid, you are getting some very good advice here. The main thing you need to focus on, is your own personal recovery (not the recovery of the marriage, it is too soon for that) and the well-being of your kids. Once you have seen the Doctor and gotten medication or whatever else he recommends, then there is time to work on making a decision about D or R. Your wife's feelings shouldn't influence what you do , in any way, for the moment. You absolutely need her to take a polygraph, even the threat of one will sometimes force the cheater to tell the complete story, and stop the trickle truth. You can't have any control over your future, if you don't have a good handle on the past. GET TO THE BOTTOM OF EVERYTHING!! Make sure that BOTH families know what happened, including your wife's family. Don NOT try to hide this.


----------



## the guy

Takes some time off.

I didn't and it effected my performance and was labed as a flake, I have been getting passed over for work b/c of this crap. 

I did how ever approach my boss months later and he recommend I do some PR work to improve my rep. and do my best to get this"label" removed.

Its been tough but in hind site I should have taken at least a week off the days after I confronted my wife.

Please reconsider, call it a family emergency.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> Yes, but.....I will not be vindictive. I am going to take the advice and take her to the lawyer about the video. She is writing letters. She agreed to go to counseling, which is a deal breaker if she does not.
> 
> She is being put out there in front of others to have to say it out loud. But I won't, I can't make her life hell.....that is not who I have become. I am proud of where I have come from and I will not do anything that will make me feel like I am going backwards.
> 
> It's not like I didn't entertain all kinds of thoughts of how to get revenge....but I squash it all and move on.


Before I read this Evil Bandit.45 was going to recommend that you fly to Nevada and spend your birthday in the loving arms of one of that state's finest professionals, but I see you are a man of principle. Sucks having morals doesn't it?

Does your wife know about the OM's kinky sex life with his wife? Does she know she is the indirect recipient of all the biological detritus from all those times his wife pulled a train?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Almostrecovered

MrArachnid said:


> Yes, but.....I will not be vindictive. I am going to take the advice and take her to the lawyer about the video. She is writing letters. She agreed to go to counseling, which is a deal breaker if she does not.
> 
> She is being put out there in front of others to have to say it out loud. But I won't, I can't make her life hell.....that is not who I have become. I am proud of where I have come from and I will not do anything that will make me feel like I am going backwards.
> 
> It's not like I didn't entertain all kinds of thoughts of how to get revenge....but I squash it all and move on.


I agree with your stance as long as you realize that there is a difference between appropriate consequence and vindictiveness and that you don't hold back on getting what you need out of the R and the marriage.


I've said the following a kajillion times and I'll say it again-

what's needed for proper R and if she breaks any of it you file for D

1) No contact, NC letters are recommended and she must ignore all attempts that he makes to contact her. If the WS works with the OM then she must quit. If OM contacts her, she ignores it and tells you of it right away.

2) Transparency- she gives up all passwords, lets you look at her phone and informs you of her whereabouts at all times. IOW if she runs late due to traffic she calls to tell you if it. You also need to verify through your own means (ie spy tech) without telling her to help rebuild trust

3) She demonstrates 100% remorse and accepts the blame for the affair, no gaslighting, trickle truth or blameshifting, she does the heavy lifting to help you heal. See the chart in the newbie link for more info

4) You spend 10-15 hours a week of one on one time (no TV) to rebond.


----------



## jinba

My H also had an affair with my best friend. I immediately removed her from my life - now I'm not so sure that was the best approach. It left the door wide open for them to continue seeing each other and I had no influence on her once we were no longer friends.

Of course when the **** hit the fan H became a really good liar, and I was duped for about 3 years. It's been ten + years since and I still am visited by the "images" on a regular basis. I don't know if they ever go away.

Having been there, I feel for you. The only advice I can offer is to be true to yourself and follow your heart - but don't leave yourself vulnerable to another EA or PA - make certain she knows that you will stand firm and leave her if she does it again.

Good luck to you.


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> She is being put out there in front of others to have to say it out loud. But I won't, I can't make her life hell.....that is not who I have become. I am proud of where I have come from and I will not do anything that will make me feel like I am going backwards.
> 
> It's not like I didn't entertain all kinds of thoughts of how to get revenge....but I squash it all and move on.


Having her own it isn't vindictive. In fact it's ultimately therapeutic for her because it is imposing real and concrete consequences for choosing the affair. 

Cruel and vindictive would be you haranguing her for years over and over, or a revenge affair even if you only made up a story about having one.

I'm worried about your fathers advice, because it sounds like he thinks you should rugsweep and just move on. That is a very bad way to act since it doesnt resolve any of the hurt or anger you have, and it leaves your wife with a sense of no harm no foul and thinking that next time there will also be no consequences.

Right now I recommend following through on the letters, lawyer and therapy. Hold her to her promises and don't give her an easy pass on this stuff. Like a muscle, you need to do the hardwook here, especially her and short cuts will only yield bad results.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ilgitano

MrArachnid said:


> She said she didn't know he was videoing until after and he showed her. I tend to believe that....since you're not always facing the other person.


And you believe her??? Dude, time for you to man-up big time. You have to realize that cheaters are expert liars.

What you're doing a the moment is rationalizing in order to diminish the pain the event.

I don't believe for one second that she wasn't aware of camera. "Deny deny deny until you die" is the motto of cheaters. They become so accustomed to lying that they feel no more guilt. This particular forum caters to BS and ways to deal with WS. But there are other forums which are completely dedicated to cheaters and have their how support system. As for your wife, chances are very high that she perceives you as a major ********* since you're not acting like a man... ie: getting divorce papers, kicking her out... stuff like this. This is the only language they really understand.

My advice to you: DTB ASAP or expect a few years of crap lies from the wife with ongoing secret hookups.


----------



## Jellybeans

Oh gosh, a video was involved too?

How'd you find out about that? Did she tell you?

I wish these long threads had Cliff Notes.


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> Having her own it isn't vindictive. In fact it's ultimately therapeutic for her because it is imposing real and concrete consequences for choosing the affair.
> 
> Cruel and vindictive would be you haranguing her for years over and over, or a revenge affair even if you only made up a story about having one.
> 
> I'm worried about your fathers advice, because it sounds like he thinks you should rugsweep and just move on. That is a very bad way to act since it doesnt resolve any of the hurt or anger you have, and it leaves your wife with a sense of no harm no foul and thinking that next time there will also be no consequences.
> 
> Right now I recommend following through on the letters, lawyer and therapy. Hold her to her promises and don't give her an easy pass on this stuff. Like a muscle, you need to do the hardwook here, especially her and short cuts will only yield bad results.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Oh no my father said she needed to own this but he was making sure that the way he made my mom pay is not the way to go. He didn't tell me how me made my mom pay but I could tell from his face he was disappointed with himself.


----------



## MrArachnid

Jellybeans said:


> Oh gosh, a video was involved too?
> 
> How'd you find out about that? Did she tell you?
> 
> I wish these long threads had Cliff Notes.


She told me. I never would've known about the affair if she hadn't told me. I had suspicions but didn't know anything.


----------



## SprucHub

MR. A. An idea that shows her you are not a pushover, but willing to work. A post-nup agreement. It may not be binding in your state, but an agreement that she gets nothing accumulated or acquired after today if you divorce because of her cheating, her contacting the OM, her lying . . . Even if it is not binding, can't hurt to see if she'll sign one.


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Before I read this Evil Bandit.45 was going to recommend that you fly to Nevada and spend your birthday in the loving arms of one of that state's finest professionals, but I see you are a man of principle. Sucks having morals doesn't it?
> 
> Does your wife know about the OM's kinky sex life with his wife? Does she know she is the indirect recipient of all the biological detritus from all those times his wife pulled a train?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



She knows of their sex life. Hell for all I know his wife is so twisted up that she liked to watch whatever he recorded. The OM's wife may have "not cared" about this at all.

Yeah, I do have a moral compass. I know I created issues that made my wife not feel loved but I didn't deserve this.


----------



## MrArachnid

SprucHub said:


> MR. A. An idea that shows her you are not a pushover, but willing to work. A post-nup agreement. It may not be binding in your state, but an agreement that she gets nothing accumulated or acquired after today if you divorce because of her cheating, her contacting the OM, her lying . . . Even if it is not binding, can't hurt to see if she'll sign one.


Hmm....I will consider this and look into it for my state. That would at least put my mind at ease about the future of my investments and such. I hate this. I hate that I can't trust her.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well all you can do is give OMW the info and what she chooses to with it is her decision, the OMW in my case also buried her head in the sand. Unless you get further proof there's no point in trying to convince her.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> She knows of their sex life. Hell for all I know his wife is so twisted up that she liked to watch whatever he recorded. The OM's wife may have "not cared" about this at all.
> 
> Yeah, I do have a moral compass. I know I created issues that made my wife not feel loved but I didn't deserve this.


Ughhhh... That is sick. I don't know if I believe in demon possession, but if your wife starts floating above the bed tonight I would not be surprised

I feel so bad for you Mr. A.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Onmyway

MrArachnid said:


> Yeah, I do have a moral compass. I know I created issues that made my wife not feel loved but I didn't deserve this.


No one deserves to be betrayed like this, the respectable route would have been for your wife to push to fix these issues, to use her energy to repair her marriage, or leaving you when all else failed, rather than seeking out an affair.

Stay strong, you'll make it through one way or the other.


----------



## Eli-Zor

Almostrecovered said:


> well all you can do is give OMW the info and what she chooses to with it is her decision, the OMW in my case also buried her head in the sand. Unless you get further proof there's no point in trying to convince her.


Yet another reason to expose further than his wife, its sad to see how many OM/OW's spouses do not take action or are supportive of an "open marriage".


----------



## norajane

MrArachnid said:


> She knows of their sex life. Hell for all I know his wife is so twisted up that she liked to watch whatever he recorded. The OM's wife may have "not cared" about this at all.
> 
> Yeah, I do have a moral compass. I know I created issues that made my wife not feel loved but I didn't deserve this.


It occurs to me that you also need to take a close look at how you are choosing your friends. Since this is the second friend who has betrayed you with a second wife, maybe you could be making better choices regarding the people you associate closely with.


----------



## keko

+1 on the post-nup idea. Offer it before things return to "normal".


----------



## jinba

Me too Jellybeans - seems the plot always thickens the more comfortable people get with participating here.

I'm curious as to why she didn't insist the OM delete the video "if" she didn't know about it until afterwards???

Something fisshy here.


----------



## MrArachnid

norajane said:


> It occurs to me that you also need to take a close look at how you are choosing your friends. Since this is the second friend who has betrayed you with a second wife, maybe you could be making better choices regarding the people you associate closely with.



Well, I am not the type to get close to anyone quickly. The only way I can talk about this on this forum is because none of you know me, which, with all the support for someone none of you know, really restores a bit of faith in humanity. 

I don't make friends easily because of trust issues. So I take people at face value and if they show no ill intention or amoral behavior then I get more comfortable.

I knew OM for 20 years....he knew what he did to me and my marriage...and his marriage I guess. I don't expect people to do this to me. I dont trust easily. I was blindsided both times.


----------



## jinba

I know the feeling - and I'm more than a little bitter. I can honestly say I don't trust anyone fully anymore. My guard is always up. I don't have any "close" friends - my choice. Once burned, twice learned I guess - but it's a lonely place to be sometimes.

I learned the hard way that the only person you can truly trust in this world is yourself. So trust your gut - listen to your heart - make decisions for YOURSELF and YOUR well being.


----------



## MrArachnid

jinba said:


> Me too Jellybeans - seems the plot always thickens the more comfortable people get with participating here.
> 
> I'm curious as to why she didn't insist the OM delete the video "if" she didn't know about it until afterwards???
> 
> Something fisshy here.



Well...I asked her about the content. She said she didn't know he was taking video because she was focused on S-ing his D. He showed her immediately after and she said she told him to delete it.

It's not that I am not skeptical and I am asking questions that I don't want to know the answers to and at the same time I don't want to be left to my own imagination.

I think tonight I will put all of this on the table.....no more trickle truth.....all or nothing. I will ask her to take me through each time....start to finish....no more piecing this together. I may ask for polygraph just to gauge things.

I am going to suggest an agreement like a pre-nuptial.

I can't believe how exhausting this is.....funny how you forget things in your past until your thrown into it again.


----------



## norajane

MrArachnid said:


> Well, I am not the type to get close to anyone quickly. The only way I can talk about this on this forum is because none of you know me, which, with all the support for someone none of you know, really restores a bit of faith in humanity.
> 
> I don't make friends easily because of trust issues. So I take people at face value and if they show no ill intention or amoral behavior then I get more comfortable.
> 
> I knew OM for 20 years....he knew what he did to me and my marriage...and his marriage I guess. I don't expect people to do this to me. I dont trust easily. I was blindsided both times.


I'm more referring to things you knew already, like this:



> They had a F'd up sex life....threeways, gang stuff and the like.


So, maybe people who are into that lifestyle are not people you want anywhere near you and your wife. Or people that you know have a history of cheating or promiscuity...those are the people who lack boundaries. Those people are the wolves in wolves' clothing, not sheep's clothing.

If you know full well they don't share your values and boundaries, perhaps they are not the best people to be close to and invite into your life and home.


----------



## MrArachnid

MrArachnid said:


> Well...I asked her about the content. She said she didn't know he was taking video because she was focused on S-ing his D. He showed her immediately after and she said she told him to delete it.
> 
> It's not that I am not skeptical and I am asking questions that I don't want to know the answers to and at the same time I don't want to be left to my own imagination.
> 
> I think tonight I will put all of this on the table.....no more trickle truth.....all or nothing. I will ask her to take me through each time....start to finish....no more piecing this together. I may ask for polygraph just to gauge things.
> 
> I am going to suggest an agreement like a pre-nuptial.
> 
> I can't believe how exhausting this is.....funny how you forget things in your past until your thrown into it again.



After I take my meds...maybe it will help with having to hear this from start to finish because I can't take anymore half truths.


----------



## Shaggy

Btw, you need to warn other friends about what this guy likes to do with friends wives.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

norajane said:


> I'm more referring to things you knew already, like this:
> 
> 
> 
> So, maybe people who are into that lifestyle are not people you want anywhere near you and your wife. Or people that you know have a history of cheating or promiscuity...those are the people who lack boundaries. Those people are the wolves in wolves' clothing, not sheep's clothing.
> 
> If you know full well they don't share your values and boundaries, perhaps they are not the best people to be close to and invite into your life and home.



I hear you and they knew my position on that kind of sexual behavior. I would say they knew me and my wife's position on this but it is obvious hers changed.

Is it just me or does this stuff seem more prominent....I don't remember this kind of thing being as out there. I sang in a punk rock band....I have been there, done that.....seen things I wish I hadnt and I am no saint. I change my ways and realigned my perspective and then I have to deal with this.


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> Btw, you need to warn other friends about what this guy likes to do with friends wives.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I've outed him to my friend in the UK that I talked about in an earlier post. My UK buddy was friends with OM also. I am treading lightly with outing OM because of the video and the legal stuff. Once I have legal legs then I will out the monster. I did find out that taking a video of a person in a private setting without their consent is a felony in my state. It's a start.


----------



## keko

MrArachnid said:


> I think tonight I will put all of this on the table.....no more trickle truth.....all or nothing. I will ask her to take me through each time....start to finish....no more piecing this together. I may ask for polygraph just to gauge things.
> 
> I am going to suggest an agreement like a pre-nuptial.


Before you ask her for the full truth, give her a piece of apper and write each and every detail and you WILL take her to polygraph. If you can show her you're serious about it she will write most if not all the details without even going to the test.

For the post-nup, don't suggest it. She cheated, why do you have to ask for her thoughts? Tell her you want a written agreement if she cheats again she will walk away with nothing from this marriage.

Again her reaction's to these two methods will show if she is truly remorseful and wants to fix the marriage or if she is a fake R, cake eater. Good luck.


----------



## bryanp

Wait a second. Your wife knew about the OM's sexual behavior with his wife engaging in 3 ways and gang sex and she still had sex with him? The chances of picking up STD's in that type of environment is huge. She engaged in sexual activity none the less and continued to put your health at great risk for STD's. This truly is beyond comprehension and unfortunately sends another huge message to you what she really down deep really thinks of you. This is awful.


----------



## warlock07

Seeing OM's wife's reaction, she might well be complicit in his actions. I think you are no where near the truth, nowhere. Ask her to write them out if she is too ashamed/scared to tell you about it. Put heavy emphasis about the dangers of trickle truthing and how you go over the the D-day everytime a new bit of information comes out.


----------



## MrArachnid

bryanp said:


> Wait a second. Your wife knew about the OM's sexual behavior with his wife engaging in 3 ways and gang sex and she still had sex with him? The chances of picking up STD's in that type of environment is huge. She engaged in sexual activity none the less and continued to put your health at great risk for STD's. This truly is beyond comprehension and unfortunately sends another huge message to you what she really down deep really thinks of you. This is awful.



she already suggested getting tested. I am going to also.


----------



## ilgitano

keko said:


> Before you ask her for the full truth, give her a piece of apper and write each and every detail and you WILL take her to polygraph. If you can show her you're serious about it she will write most if not all the details without even going to the test.
> 
> For the post-nup, don't suggest it. She cheated, why do you have to ask for her thoughts? Tell her you want a written agreement if she cheats again she will walk away with nothing from this marriage.
> 
> Again her reaction's to these two methods will show if she is truly remorseful and wants to fix the marriage or if she is a fake R, cake eater. Good luck.


This :iagree:

You have to push her to a threshold. Things like: schedule a polygraph, start calling lawyers, begin a break-up style behaviour (circle ads in the house for rent section in a newspaper,...)
At the moment, they are going through an pre-approved "let's cool off things for the few weeks", just for the show.

Being understanding and helpful is a desired behaviour for a friend or brother, NOT for a lover and husband because it is a relationship based on polarity.

If you would look at a forum for cheaters, you would read things like "I wish he would put his pants on and stop being so understanding", "he still has his doormat behaviour" as well as "he believes me.... what a sucker". Your manly or less than manly behaviour right now, at this very moment, is what will seal the deal for the future. Having said that, your father is right. What he probably did is to not put his pants on and let it slide with years and years of bitterness directed at her as a means of selfdefense, complete with the self-hatred which inevitably arrises from that. You don't need or want that.


----------



## jh52

MrArachnid said:


> she already suggested getting tested. I am going to also.


Just reading this thread and I have something for you to think about? Your wife knew of this guys past with his wife in regards to 3 ways and gang bangs -- r u sure it was just your best friend and your wife (not that it is okay) -- or could she have had sex with him and his wife -- or worse participate in a gang bang ??


----------



## MrArachnid

jh52 said:


> Just reading this thread and I have something for you to think about? Your wife knew of this guys past with his wife in regards to 3 ways and gang bangs -- r u sure it was just your best friend and your wife (not that it is okay) -- or could she have had sex with him and his wife -- or worse participate in a gang bang ??


No I know when they were getting together....OMW was at work and they were alone.

Even though I know when....I am going to ask anyway.


----------



## bandit.45

Let's not get near blaming Mr. H for exposing his wife to these people. He did not put handcuffs on his wife and lead her over to the BF's house. She knew these people were into an alternative lifestyle and she chose to go behind her husband's back and screw the POS. She did it because it was dangerous, exciting and a change of pace from a life that she viewed as monotonous. She thought she could outsmart her hsuband, but he developed the BS's radar from the first time he got burned by his ex, and he knew something was up. 

Mr. H has no blame in this. His former best friend's lifestyle was that guy's business, not his; but Mrs. H decided to make it her business.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## warlock07

MrArachnid said:


> No I know when they were getting together....OMW was at work and they were alone.
> 
> Even though I know when....I am going to ask anyway.


She could have done the same without the wife. Maybe what she confessed was the tip of the iceberg. Stay wary and Keep your eyes open, wide open.


----------



## MrArachnid

warlock07 said:


> She could have done the same without the wife. Maybe what she confessed was the tip of the iceberg. Stay wary and Keep your eyes open, wide open.


I am being cautious and still asking questions. I know the time frame. My wife and I text back and forth periodically and during the time frame....I can go back through my texts and just about pinpoint the day and time. The lapse in time that she texted me back on certain days told a story.


----------



## bandit.45

warlock07 said:


> She could have done the same without the wife. Maybe what she confessed was the tip of the iceberg. Stay wary and Keep your eyes open, wide open.


Yeah, I would not be surprised if she at least took part in a threesome. Mr. H needs to dig hard and not let up.


----------



## MrArachnid

Here's what I emailed the OM:

"Why? I am owed that......20 years we have known each other. You completely disrespected me and now you won't even man up to say sorry at the very least. Can you muster at least a molecule of decency and apologize for violating my marriage and our friendship? You took advantage of a situation and broke trusts and I would like to know why you felt that hurting me was worth it. Why was f**king my wife more important than our friendship or your marriage?


OM's response:
"Cease any and all contact with me and all members of my family. I will not participate in this."

My Response to that:

"First of all, you are an ignorant ass....you opened this door.....you chose to participate.....now you have to reap whatever consequences befall you. This is a fact of life.....if you don't like it by all means kill yourself.

I am owed an apology from "my friend" of 20 years. That is all"


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, I would not be surprised if she at least took part in a threesome. Mr. H needs to dig hard and not let up.



The more I read the more I want to dig. The more I realize the real who she decided to be with the more I want to dig. It's funny how you overlook things about a friend because its their life until it involves you.


----------



## bandit.45

Careful what you say bro. Comments like "kill yourself" could land you in jail. 

Quit giving this POS your time. He doesn't deserve it. Your wife is the biggest culprit here. Concentrate on her.


----------



## vi_bride04

MrArachnid said:


> OM's response:
> "Cease any and all contact with me and all members of my family. I will not participate in this."




WOW. If one of my friends of 20yrs said that to me after f*cking my spouse I would go nuclear. My WS and my "best" friend wouldn't know what hit them...

If he didn't want to participate he shouldn't have stuck his **** in your wife!!!!!!!!!


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Yeah, I would not be surprised if she at least took part in a threesome. Mr. H needs to dig hard and not let up.



You know...time frame or not....maybe that is why OMW was so flippant about me telling her. At the same time, I do have some insight into OMW personal history and I know how damaged she is....so it can go either way.


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Careful what you say bro. Comments like "kill yourself" could land you in jail.
> 
> Quit giving this POS your time. He doesn't deserve it. Your wife is the biggest culprit here. Concentrate on her.


Yeah that email was from days ago.....I only suggested he kill himself....I cannot be responsible if he does. He makes his own choices...right or wrong, obviously.

I havent bothered with him since.


----------



## MrArachnid

vi_bride04 said:


> WOW. If one of my friends of 20yrs said that to me after f*cking my spouse I would go nuclear. My WS and my "best" friend wouldn't know what hit them...
> 
> If he didn't want to participate he shouldn't have stuck his **** in your wife!!!!!!!!!


I have showed an incredible amount of restraint. In my younger days, it would have been on....no question. Since my youth I have gained knowledge in certain skills which I can be liable for if I let my anger get the best of me.


----------



## MrArachnid

When I was just suspect of something. I asked OM what was going on and he just said he didn't know and this is crazy. OM suggested that maybe she was making things up to make me jealous.


----------



## keko

MrA, if you have any "good" brothers, family members this seems like a good time to ask for a favor.


----------



## warlock07

So he is still denying the affair?


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> MrA, if you have any "good" brothers, family members this seems like a good time to ask for a favor.


I know what you mean but I just can't let the anger control me. and I have wanted nothing more than to put him in the hospital.....I won't do it....I'm better than that. Besides, the guy had back surgery half a year ago....it would be like beating up a gimp.....no satisfaction in a fight where there is no conflict on which to feed.


----------



## Shaggy

I hate to be a broken record here, but her take a polygraph as part of building trust again,

Make sure the ask about other affairs and about threesomes and if there are things she did with the OM that she hasn't told you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

warlock07 said:


> So he is still denying the affair?


yes....adamantly...but I don't trust him at all. In our younger days, OM did stupid things to woman and denied it....and still does years later. I had to remind him of an incident where he recollected things askew. 

I told my wife that in the letter to OMW she needs to include physical details about the OM that she could not know unless they were intimate.


----------



## vi_bride04

MrArachnid said:


> I have showed an incredible amount of restraint. In my younger days, it would have been on....no question. Since my youth I have gained knowledge in certain skills which I can be liable for if I let my anger get the best of me.


I did not mean get angry or physical. I mean exposing the affair wide open to everyone and everything important to them...family, friends, job, church....blow it wide open like a nuclear bomb.

There are ways to "go nuclear" legally where it just makes their lives a living hell for awhile (OM & WS). I am not suggesting anything illegal or physical in any way shape or form. But for as much as they were both pulling the wool over your eyes it would be nice to expose them for the liars they really are.


----------



## MrArachnid

Where would you go for polygraph
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## river rat

MrArachnid said:


> Yeah that email was from days ago.....I only suggested he kill himself....I cannot be responsible if he does. He makes his own choices...right or wrong, obviously.
> 
> I havent bothered with him since.


For him, I'm not sure which would be the right choice. Excuse me. I'm feeling uncharitable today.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> When I was just suspect of something. I asked OM what was going on and he just said he didn't know and this is crazy. OM suggested that maybe she was making things up to make me jealous.


Yep... gaslighting. he and your wife used every cheater's trick in the book.  Nice conspiracy. that should piss you off more than anything. Shows you how invested she was in him.


----------



## MrArachnid

vi_bride04 said:


> I did not mean get angry or physical. I mean exposing the affair wide open to everyone and everything important to them...family, friends, job, church....blow it wide open like a nuclear bomb.
> 
> There are ways to "go nuclear" legally where it just makes their lives a living hell for awhile (OM & WS). I am not suggesting anything illegal or physical in any way shape or form. But for as much as they were both pulling the wool over your eyes it would be nice to expose them for the liars they really are.


OH....see for me nuclear is an entirely different reaction...no pun intended


----------



## vi_bride04

MrArachnid said:


> OH....see for me nuclear is an entirely different reaction...no pun intended


I totally understand...my H thinks the same way when I mention "going nuclear" lol. He always thinks it means getting physical/fighting...


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> Where would you go for polygraph
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Google: polygraph testers "your county:city"

Such as polygraph testers westchester
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## CH

He was never a best friend. A true friend is the one you call in the middle of the night and is willing to get up no questions asked.

And as you're both digging that hole with that strange lumpy bag in his trunk you just keep your mouth shut, lower that bag in the ground, cover the hole up and never speak about that day ever again. The day never happened. That's a true friend.

All kidding aside, don't waste any more time on him. Put all that effort into yourself. Right now, priority #1 is you.


----------



## bryanp

Mr. Arachnid,

You may have not understood what I was getting at in my previous message. It is not the fact that your wife said the both of you need to be tested for STD's. The point I was trying to get at was that she knowingly knew the type of sexual behavior that the OM was into and how that would put her at enormous risk for STD's. 

The fact that she knew all of this and consented to having a sexual affair behind your back and still having sex with you knowing she would put you at a huge risk for contacting STD's is crucial. How in the world could you forgive something like that? She clearly was not worried of catching Aids and passing it on to you. This can mean only one of two things:
1. Your wife is a borderline moron or
2. She deliberately did not care whether or not she passed on some deadly diseases to you. This is critical for you to understand this.
This should be an absolute deal breaker for you. I wish you luck.


----------



## MrArachnid

Well, I am back from the Dr.....antidepressant and anxiety meds are in the house but I have yet to take it. I will, I am just uncomfortable about a lot of things. I went through the needle pricks, urine test and waiver signing for the gamut of STD's. Go back in 2 weeks to find out the results though that is little comfort since it can take 4-6 months to find out if you have HIV. UGH!!


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> Well, I am back from the Dr.....antidepressant and anxiety meds are in the house but I have yet to take it. I will, I am just uncomfortable about a lot of things. I went through the needle pricks, urine test and waiver signing for the gamut of STD's. Go back in 2 weeks to find out the results though that is little comfort since it can take 4-6 months to find out if you have HIV. UGH!!


Sorry you have to go through this humiliation brother. When does she go?


----------



## MrArachnid

bryanp said:


> Mr. Arachnid,
> 
> You may have not understood what I was getting at in my previous message. It is not the fact that your wife said the both of you need to be tested for STD's. The point I was trying to get at was that she knowingly knew the type of sexual behavior that the OM was into and how that would put her at enormous risk for STD's.
> 
> The fact that she knew all of this and consented to having a sexual affair behind your back and still having sex with you knowing she would put you at a huge risk for contacting STD's is crucial. How in the world could you forgive something like that? She clearly was not worried of catching Aids and passing it on to you. This can mean only one of two things:
> 1. Your wife is a borderline moron or
> 2. She deliberately did not care whether or not she passed on some deadly diseases to you. This is critical for you to understand this.
> This should be an absolute deal breaker for you. I wish you luck.



I just want to love her. I want to forgive her....and that is a process not a given. I want to believe that everything is going to be ok. I am believing that I am not infected with HIV. I just want my life back and as pathetic as it is she was a big part of it.


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Sorry you have to go through this humiliation brother. When does she go?


Tomorrow. We were gonna go together but we have a 3 year old and we didn't want to have to deal with the emotions of this in front of other people with the kid there.


----------



## lovelygirl

MrArachnid said:


> *I just want to love her. I want to forgive her*....and that is a process not a given. I want to believe that everything is going to be ok. I am believing that I am not infected with HIV. I just want my life back and as pathetic as it is she was a big part of it.


You're coming off as too needy.
She should be the one to feel needy. Not you!


----------



## keko

Stop being a codependent to a cheater.


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Yep... gaslighting. he and your wife used every cheater's trick in the book. Nice conspiracy. that should piss you off more than anything. Shows you how invested she was in him.


Gas light.....great movie.....sucks in real life when your the one being played.


----------



## MrArachnid

keko said:


> Stop being a codependent to a cheater.


I just want to feel normal. I don't want to be a codependent. I don't know what to do.

I have counseling on Thursday I will probably be able to get more answers from him. I have been seeing him since 2006.


----------



## jh52

MrArachnid said:


> Tomorrow. We were gonna go together but we have a 3 year old and we didn't want to have to deal with the emotions of this in front of other people with the kid there.


You and her have a kid ??


----------



## MrArachnid

I know I have gotten good advice. I am trying. I never used to be this pathetic.


----------



## MrArachnid

jh52 said:


> You and her have a kid ??


yeah...I have one son from the other cheating ***** and a son with this one.


----------



## norajane

MrArachnid said:


> I just want to love her. I want to forgive her....and that is a process not a given. I want to believe that everything is going to be ok. I am believing that I am not infected with HIV. I just want my life back and as pathetic as it is she was a big part of it.


It's not uncommon for a BS to react in exactly that way at first - to want to restore their life, or to try to keep it intact. You might change your mind about that, more than a few times, as you progress through this. That's part of the process, too.


----------



## MrArachnid

I have an 8 year old son that has known my current wife half his life and a 3 yr old son.


----------



## jh52

MrArachnid said:


> yeah...I have one son from the other cheating ***** and a son with this one.


I don't say this lightly -- but I would think about getting DNA tests on both your sons. If the son you have with the "new" wife -- is not yours -- you may have bigger/longer term problems.


----------



## Almostrecovered

MrArachnid said:


> I know I have gotten good advice. I am trying. I never used to be this pathetic.


You'll get some blunt advice from some posters, because we all go thru the same process in varying degrees. 

I have no problem if you want to R but you need to do it from strength not desperation.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> I know I have gotten good advice. I am trying. I never used to be this pathetic.


Ahh, its normal. You're just tired and worn out. Take some sleeping pills and go to bed. You'll feel better and stronger when you wake up.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

You are not pathetic. You have been severely traumatized, twice now. I imagine your whole world view has been shaken.
I have been through this twice.as well, and the second time was more traumatic. It opened up an old wound and really had me messed up.
Read that "Let Them Go" thread. It really is spot on, IMO.

Hang in there and rely on whatever friends and family you can.


----------



## Chaparral

Have you read Married Man Sex Life yet? You will find a lot of answers her to what has happend to your marriage and what to do going forward, reconcilliation or divorce.

Good luck, stay strong, you WILL make it.


----------



## Machiavelli

vi_bride04 said:


> I totally understand...my H thinks the same way when I mention "going nuclear" lol. He always thinks it means getting physical/fighting...


That's still not quite nuclear.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> Have you read Married Man Sex Life yet? You will find a lot of answers her to what has happend to your marriage and what to do going forward, reconcilliation or divorce.
> 
> Good luck, stay strong, you WILL make it.



I haven't read it yet. OUr sex life wasn't the issue...as a matter of fact, she is much younger than me....15 years younger. She had never had a vaginal orgasm until me. With age comes experience and she knew nothing about sensuality. The problems that we had before this still need to be addressed...I am aware of that but I told her last night that I cannot talk about anything previous to our current situation because I am not going to feel blame for this.

I will get the book....I am a reader and I am willing to read anything that will help me help us.


----------



## MrArachnid

Machiavelli said:


> That's still not quite nuclear.


Yeah....I spent a year on probation when I was 21 because of a defcon 1 nuclear event.


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> You'll get some blunt advice from some posters, because we all go thru the same process in varying degrees.
> 
> I have no problem if you want to R but you need to do it from strength not desperation.



I know. The meds seem to be helping me think straight. And I am not on a constant freak out. 

I do want R but you are exactly right...I need to want it standing with my head on and not on my knees feeling like I caused it.


----------



## Almostrecovered

MrArachnid said:


> I know. The meds seem to be helping me think straight. And I am not on a constant freak out.
> 
> I do want R but you are exactly right...I need to want it standing with my head on and not on my knees feeling like I caused it.



bing bing bing!!


----------



## Chaparral

MrArachnid said:


> I haven't read it yet. OUr sex life wasn't the issue...as a matter of fact, she is much younger than me....15 years younger. She had never had a vaginal orgasm until me. With age comes experience and she knew nothing about sensuality. The problems that we had before this still need to be addressed...I am aware of that but I told her last night that I cannot talk about anything previous to our current situation because I am not going to feel blame for this.
> 
> I will get the book....I am a reader and I am willing to read anything that will help me help us.


LOL its not a sex manual. Its the way men and women think, mentally and biologicaly. It should have a better title.


----------



## MrArachnid

Is it normal to feel raped?


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> LOL its not a sex manual. Its the way men and women think, mentally and biologicaly. It should have a better title.


OH.....Yeah I guess the title threw me. I will definitely get it.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> Is it normal to feel raped?


Yes. You'll feel this way off and on for a couple of years. You have been violated in the worst way by the person you trusted the most.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## bandit.45

Hey Arachnid...

Any updates?


----------



## bandit.45

Bump for update.


----------



## MrArachnid

Ok....the meds are over a week in me and they do seem to help. As far as my wife is concerned, we had a HUGE QnA and she answered everything. She has been doing nothing for the last couple of weeks but saying sorry. She has expressed remorse. She asked me the other day if we are going to stay together and I said that we will work on it. She told me that she is scared that I may be willing to work on it now and two years from now I may wake up and not want to deal with it anymore. I told her that is not my plan but it is my prerogative. 
We have gone to our first counseling session and it was an eye opener, for both of us. I am feeling more in control of myself and the situation. She is being tranparent but she is now fearful of the OM. There were things that she told me about the affair that were very concerning. He threatened her that if she ever told me about the affair he would "ruin her". The affair I found out went on for just under three weeks and the encounters were more than three. She told me that after the second of third encounter she told him no and he proceeded anyway. KNowing the OM, I hate to say that this may be true. I know how he reasoned this....once he had her then he could do what he wanted because who was she going to tell.

Anyway, the letters are being written and they are going to him, his wife and his 18 year old daughter who my wife was close to....the letter to the daughter was her suggestion. 

I hated to hear about the details.....especially the abusive sexual things he did and she allowed but I was left out of the relationship so I could not protect her. She says she feels safe with me and I understand....she is apologizing on the regular and is going to IC soon....I told her that if she did not pursue IC on her own it was a deal breaker.

ONe day at a time......we'll see.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> We have gone to our first counseling session and it was an eye opener, for both of us. I am feeling more in control of myself and the situation. She is being tranparent but she is now fearful of the OM. There were things that she told me about the affair that were very concerning. He threatened her that if she ever told me about the affair he would "ruin her". The affair I found out went on for just under three weeks and the encounters were more than three. She told me that after the second of third encounter she told him no and he proceeded anyway. KNowing the OM, I hate to say that this may be true. I know how he reasoned this....once he had her then he could do what he wanted because who was she going to tell.
> 
> I hated to hear about the details.....especially the abusive sexual things he did and she allowed but I was left out of the relationship so I could not protect her. .


You need to go to the police.


----------



## vi_bride04

I agree with bandit. If there was any rape of any kind, charges need to be pressed.


----------



## Shaggy

Press the charges if he did rape her. However if she went back after that to him, it's going to really undermine any case.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> Press the charges if he did rape her. However if she went back after that to him, it's going to really undermine any case.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yeah and that is the case....she told me that she felt like she deserved it. She has rationalized what happened to make it her fault......but the way she described being treated .....this is not her and it was not right. 

Its almost like Stockholm syndrome


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> You need to go to the police.


I am trying to get her to open up and realize that she needs to press charges.

Her guilt and shame about the affair coupled with the possibility of rape....I dont know if she will


----------



## the guy

Start talking to a lawyer, especially one with ties to the DA. He will give you the best option and you may even beable to fill a civil case, IDK but atleast get some option before you envolve the cops.

I have had experience with my lawyer talking to the DA before hand, it it banded out for me, instead of going to the cops 1st, which would have been a mistake in my case.

So please see a lawyer 1st then you can approach your wife with options.


----------



## Almostrecovered

well it's likely going to be a her word against his type of thing by now


----------



## MrArachnid

Almostrecovered said:


> well it's likely going to be a her word against his type of thing by now


Yeah I know that that may be the case. She said she wants to talk about it tonight. I haven't pressed her about it but when I ask about rape she shuts down. She tells me that she put herself in that situation but never says rape.


----------



## Almostrecovered

it's a weird line because rape by definition is without consent,
that said, she had a choice to not have sex and face consequences. If anything this is more of a blackmail situation


----------



## TRy

MrArachnid said:


> I am trying to get her to open up and realize that she needs to press charges.
> 
> Her guilt and shame about the affair coupled with the possibility of rape....I dont know if she will


 She went back time and again after she says that she was first raped. She stayed in contact with him afterwards and texted friendly things to him. There is no way a jury will think that he is even probably guilty, much less guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". You are her husband and, with only hearing her side of things, even you show your doubts when you call it only a "possibility of rape". Just imagine when the other man gets a chance to tell things that your wife has not told you. Your case would only get weaker and you would look foolish for buying into her blame shifting.

You have other things to focus on. This issue is nothing but a wasteful distraction.


----------



## warlock07

> I hated to hear about the details.....especially the abusive sexual things he did and she allowed but I was left out of the relationship so I could not protect her. She says she feels safe with me and I understand....she is apologizing on the regular and is going to IC soon....I told her that if she did not pursue IC on her own it was a deal breaker.


One more WS that did more for the OM than she would do with her husband. TBH, one can never be sure if it was rape or post affair regret. Only the WS will know.


----------



## bandit.45

I suspect its the latter.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## BigLiam

MrArachnid said:


> Yeah and that is the case....she told me that she felt like she deserved it. She has rationalized what happened to make it her fault......but the way she described being treated .....this is not her and it was not right.
> 
> Its almost like Stockholm syndrome


It is nothing like Stockholm syndrome. Your wife was not subjected to anything like the abuse found in SS.


----------



## aug

She knew what she was doing. She only "confessed" after you found out as mentioned in your first post. 

I think she's spinning her story.

Looks like she's attracted to the "bad boy" type. And you too, since he was your "best friend".


----------



## tacoma

Almostrecovered said:


> well it's likely going to be a her word against his type of thing by now


I already don`t believe her.

This infuriates me.

About 25% of the time a WW gets busted they pull the rape card in some way shape or form and the BS AND the members of this board leap right on it like it was candy.

She willingly ****ed him, she willingly went to him, she willingly ****ed him again, and again so unless he held her down while she was screaming bloody murder she WAS NOT RAPED.

She`s trying to re-write history and make herself feel better about being a willing wonton *****.
AND they NEVER come out and say "I was raped" it`s always subtly implied so the grasping BS clings to it like a ****ing life boat.
It`s bull****.

If my wife had an affair and implied her OM raped her I`d refer her to a counselor while I was throwing her **** in the street.


----------



## BigLiam

I'm going alpha, baby. Want me to kick the crap out of the OM/best friend for you?:smthumbup:


----------



## sunshinetoday

Wait. She is claiming rape but she went back again? And again? I'm sorry but no way. Sorry. 

_-- Sent from my Palm Pixi using Forums_


----------



## the guy

I'm no mind reader but it could be a combination of wanting to break off the affair, but WW kept putting her self in a bad place with OM only to "give it up" rather then having it taken.

Who knows, OM may have very well taken it, is she gaslighting? Even if she was taken, you best option is to consult a few lawyers, an action that may force her hand in telling you the truth.

Again who really knows, he said she said kind of thing. Right now the whole sitch is so very fragile, especially with your wife. 

I still think talking to a lawyer and understanding the option, you can then readdress this issue with some knowledge when the time comes. It could be a while but when you do address this with your wife you can then let her know what the both of you are up against.

My thinking here is you may need a lawyer one why or another when or if the OM desides to get nasty for some reason. OM has made a threat so go see a lawyer now for you and your fWW protection.


----------



## warlock07

There is chance that she was abused but in more non-obvious ways(he did things she did not agree with like not wearing protection when she wanted to or much rougher sex than she agreed to or other degrading stuff that was not agreed upon before etc etc). These things don't seem that big in the moment it is happening but you realize the gravity of what happened after some time.(rug sweeping of a differnt kind)


----------



## DvlsAdvc8

Haven't read the thread so forgive... but wow... with the best friend? Ouch. I feel for you.

The next time I saw my "friend" I'd break his nose. Then I'd go find another woman, preferably have her in the bed you share every night, and make sure the wife knew about it... in detail.

But don't listen to me, I'm a bad person.


----------



## Chaparral

MrArachnid said:


> Yeah I know that that may be the case. She said she wants to talk about it tonight. I haven't pressed her about it but when I ask about rape she shuts down. She tells me that she put herself in that situation but never says rape.


She needs to talk to her counselor about the sex abuse. As part of reconciliation, you need to be allowed to talk to her counselor about her if you want to. Let some time pass as if uyou are not that interested in actually doing it. Contact the counselor later on.

Doubtful you can bring up any charges without proof. Any texts or anything else?

How you deal with the OM is your business. If he were my ex friend he would be wise to be heading out of town.

I don't know if any onehas mentioned the wayward spouse instructions to you but sinseyou are trying to reconcile you shoud print them off and study them with your wife. 

Here is a link, its the 11 post down, goodluck:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/genera...sided-need-perspective-please.html#post534068


----------



## Machiavelli

warlock07 said:


> One more WS that did more for the OM than she would do with her husband. TBH, one can never be sure if it was rape or post affair regret. Only the WS will know.


Agreed. It's probably more like, _"I tried this with OM and liked it, but I sure don't want BH to know I like it, because then he'll think I'm a slvt. Plus, it would be icky with BH, and he's going to want to try it."_


----------



## MrArachnid

DvlsAdvc8 said:


> Haven't read the thread so forgive... but wow... with the best friend? Ouch. I feel for you.
> 
> The next time I saw my "friend" I'd break his nose. Then I'd go find another woman, preferably have her in the bed you share every night, and make sure the wife knew about it... in detail.
> 
> But don't listen to me, I'm a bad person.


Trust me.....I have exercised an INCREDIBLE amount of restraint....having to breath deep and just close my eyes imagining serene environments. This did in fact push my limits....I am proud of the restraint I have shown and at the same time disappointed by the lack of @$$ I have been able to kick.


----------



## MrArachnid

TRy said:


> She went back time and again after she says that she was first raped. She stayed in contact with him afterwards and texted friendly things to him. There is no way a jury will think that he is even probably guilty, much less guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt". You are her husband and, with only hearing her side of things, even you show your doubts when you call it only a "possibility of rape". Just imagine when the other man gets a chance to tell things that your wife has not told you. Your case would only get weaker and you would look foolish for buying into her blame shifting.
> 
> You have other things to focus on. This issue is nothing but a wasteful distraction.


I know how it all sounds. I have my doubts. She did mention that the last time she saw him and broke it off that he was forceful and she tried to push him off. I dont know...it's all very subjective.


----------



## jinba

Going to be tough to prove rape given the circumstances. As someone previously posted, it's going to be her word against his and due to her voluntarily having the affair, neither of them will be very credible on the stand if this goes to court.

I'm no attorney, but I would think the only chance you have is if you can find other women who will testify to his violent nature - show a pattern so to speak. 

Have your attorney check his record - maybe he's been charged with assault or domestic violence in the past.

I just think you're going to need more than your wife's word on this.


----------



## warlock07

Not every rape is a violent scenario. But she might well as be making up some of the stuff to earn some sympathy points from Arachnid and make herself the victim.


----------



## anonim

keko said:


> Revenge affair is a bad idea, very bad idea.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Why? I imagine it would be better than thinking about his ex buddy with his wife all the time?


----------



## the guy

Becuase you are stooping to the waywards level and folks with honor like to go to bed knowing they are rightgous, will the waywards are ridden with guilt.

Two wrongs don't make you feel any better, at the end of the day you just feel like sh!t...problem is still unsolved.

BTW, revenge affairs only make you feel good for a few hours then your back in the crap. Betrayed will understand what the crap is so I won't need to explain.


----------



## keko

anonim said:


> Why? I imagine it would be better than thinking about his ex buddy with his wife all the time?


Dumping his wh0re of a wife and "buddy" is the best revenge affair.

Having an affair of his own will lower him to their level of moral values.


----------



## BigLiam

jinba said:


> Going to be tough to prove rape given the circumstances. As someone previously posted, it's going to be her word against his and due to her voluntarily having the affair, neither of them will be very credible on the stand if this goes to court.
> 
> I'm no attorney, but I would think the only chance you have is if you can find other women who will testify to his violent nature - show a pattern so to speak.
> 
> Have your attorney check his record - maybe he's been charged with assault or domestic violence in the past.
> 
> I just think you're going to need more than your wife's word on this.


Lawyer here, Did a fair amount of crimnal defense work in my early career.
Trust me, no prosecutor would even consider charging this.


----------



## iheartlife

the guy said:


> Becuase you are stooping to the waywards level and folks with honor like to go to bed knowing they are rightgous, will the waywards are ridden with guilt.
> 
> Two wrongs don't make you feel any better, at the end of the day you just feel like sh!t...problem is still unsolved.
> 
> BTW, revenge affairs only make you feel good for a few hours then your back in the crap. Betrayed will understand what the crap is so I won't need to explain.


I know that affairs cause a lot of anger, but in the end, a revenge affair strikes me as very juvenile. It goes back to toddlerhood, you hit me so I'm going to hit you back. 

It's been said many times--the best revenge is indifference.


----------



## MrArachnid

Has any of the guys (or gals I suppose) read the book 'Survive Her Affair' by Kevin Jackson. I started it but would like some feedback if you've read it to know if it helped or is it a waste of time?


----------



## MrArachnid

BTW, I am doing better. There have been some good baby steps for me and therapy has been helping. Still on anti-depressants but it is doing its job....I have dealt with this in a far more mature manner than I ever have in the past. No rug sweeping, no BS, and I am feeling a bit more free everyday.


----------



## Unsure in Seattle

Good for you. Keep hanging in.


----------



## bandit.45

Good to hear Mr. A. Is your wife owning her sh*t? Is she showing you true remorse?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Good to hear Mr. A. Is your wife owning her sh*t? Is she showing you true remorse?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Yes....and as incredibly difficult as some of the things she has had to do to ammend this are for me to watch.....it has helped a great deal.

She has been completely transparent about where she goes, how long she will be and when she expects to be back.....she also has to answer a text message at any time within 10 minutes.

And I know that she is being honest because of the spy software....she still doesn't know about....so it helps my peace of mind.


----------



## idiot.

MrArachnid said:


> Oh, I don't need to check logs.....I installed a program to her phone that logs everything for me....even if they are deleted....photos, emails, texts, calls....


I'm really sorry to hear about this... That's harsh. The trust will take a very long time to build back up if you're willing to continue being married. I think that you need to let your 'friend' go... You think you know someone, and then they go and do this. 

Just curious, how did you do this? I was wondering how I could do this to my husband's phone, or hack it somehow.

I didn't read all of the comments, as it's a lot to go through, but that's so awesome that she's being honest and faithful now. That's a really good sign.


----------



## Tainted Halo

MrArachnid said:


> Android HTC....how do you check logs?


You can go to your cell website and see the call logs, but as far as viewing the actual text messages sent between the two parties I don't believe it records the numbers being sent/receiving to. I have Sprint so text message logs are a no go but I can see the incoming/outbound calls on the call log. You can also down load those spy softwares for mobile phones that I've seen on the internet now those will record the numbers/text/call logs


----------



## MrArachnid

idiot. said:


> I'm really sorry to hear about this... That's harsh. The trust will take a very long time to build back up if you're willing to continue being married. I think that you need to let your 'friend' go... You think you know someone, and then they go and do this.
> 
> Just curious, how did you do this? I was wondering how I could do this to my husband's phone, or hack it somehow.
> 
> I didn't read all of the comments, as it's a lot to go through, but that's so awesome that she's being honest and faithful now. That's a really good sign.


The program is one of the cheaper versions of spyware...it's called Spybubble......and it logs all calls, texts, pics to and from phone, and GPS. This particular program now has a feature, like a number of the higher priced versions, that allows you to listen in on phone calls and access the mic on the phone and listen the the surroundings.

You have to have access to the "target phone" in this case your husband...install the program as directed and it is easy....and you are done...completely undetectable....especially if the target person is not that tech savvy...harder to detect if that are tech knowledgeable.


----------



## MrArachnid

Tainted Halo said:


> You can go to your cell website and see the call logs, but as far as viewing the actual text messages sent between the two parties I don't believe it records the numbers being sent/receiving to. I have Sprint so text message logs are a no go but I can see the incoming/outbound calls on the call log. You can also down load those spy softwares for mobile phones that I've seen on the internet now those will record the numbers/text/call logs


I have Sprint too and found out that any deleted text is pretty much gone....but I have a spy program on her phone so I know what is going on all the time now....helps with the trust issues.


----------



## bandit.45

How did your POS ex-best friend fare in his marriage? If I remember his wife is as clueless as him.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> How did your POS ex-best friend fare in his marriage? If I remember his wife is as clueless as him.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


oh...that is a horse of a different mental illness. I can't even explain the nonsense that is the OM's wife's thought process. I tried to be open and honest with her about all that I knew. Instead of the very typical BS reaction...I got how I was a terrible person for making her feel bad....I am putting this VERY mildly.

As far as their marriage goes....I believe there is nothing but rug sweeping....but on a more distorted note....I am suspicious that the OM's Wife knew......and let it happen....may have even watched the videos.....


Remember how F'ed up I mentioned the Om and his wife's sex life was.......probably more than I thought. 

GOOD RIDDANCE


----------



## bandit.45

Hope your wife's and OM's video doesn't get turned loose on the internet.

That would be bad.


----------



## JustWaiting

Sprint texts are NOT gone. You get sprint texts by logging in, and you get deleted Sprint texts for 2.99 per month
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Chaparral

bandit.45 said:


> Hope your wife's and OM's video doesn't get turned loose on the internet.
> 
> That would be bad.


When they trun up on the internet he is going to say it was because they were stolen. Ask him now where he posted them. Stole his hard drives and left the computers? Nothing else stolen? Police report? 

Time to play hardball with sleazeomaniac. Louisvlle slugger.


----------



## Chaparral

JustWaiting said:


> Sprint texts are NOT gone. You get sprint texts by logging in, and you get deleted Sprint texts for 2.99 per month
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


OOOOOOH, that could leave a mark.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> When they trun up on the internet he is going to say it was because they were stolen. Ask him now where he posted them. Stole his hard drives and left the computers? Nothing else stolen? Police report?
> 
> Time to play hardball with sleazeomaniac. Louisvlle slugger.


Yeah there is no police report...the first time he called me he told me the cops were coming to talk to me.....and he was just giving me a heads up....What the f**k ever.....I told him to let the police know that I work M-F and I am at work 5:30am to 5:30pm....and made sure he had the address. 

I hadn't considered the fact that he gave himself plausible deniability..if they would end up on the internet....UGH.


----------



## warlock07

Yep, plausible deniability and taunting you in the process.


----------



## MattMatt

Does he have any other videos, images on his computer/s? Any the police and FBI would be interested in? Just a thought...


----------



## MrArachnid

warlock07 said:


> Yep, plausible deniability and taunting you in the process.


He may be taunting me....I don't doubt that but he has known me for a long time and has watched me throw a few beatings to other people.....and he knows not to F with me. But that may be what he wants.....pull me into a fight so he can press charges....not going to happen. I spent a year on probation for putting a man in the hospital using only my hands and feet (not proud of it but it happened) and he watched that happen. Not to mention he watched me stand up to a 300 lb guy and stay standing. I know I sound like a braggart...I'm not....no matter how tough you are, you are only ever in the top three.

I learned alot about the law from that and know how to use the law rather than get pinched by it now. But the reality for me is...I will not let him get to me.....I am going to stay the course on the high road no matter how arduous the travel.


----------



## MrArachnid

MattMatt said:


> Does he have any other videos, images on his computer/s? Any the police and FBI would be interested in? Just a thought...


Don't know..and if his drives are "gone" then I wouldn't know how to bother with that.


----------



## MrArachnid

JustWaiting said:


> Sprint texts are NOT gone. You get sprint texts by logging in, and you get deleted Sprint texts for 2.99 per month
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


When I called the customer service they told me that deleted texts are gone once deleted.


----------



## Chaparral

MrArachnid said:


> Don't know..and if his drives are "gone" then I wouldn't know how to bother with that.


You only have the word of a lying cheat the drives are gone. He has them. He's afraid of what you will do if you find out he posted them.

And, basically he's admited he put them on his computer from his phone and that they are now on the internet.

Did you say he was into BDSM?


----------



## Chaparral

Any of your friends knowwhere he might post videos? 

Please don't befriend any more pervs.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> You only have the word of a lying cheat the drives are gone. He has them. He's afraid of what you will do if you find out he posted them.
> 
> And, basically he's admited he put them on his computer from his phone and that they are now on the internet.
> 
> Did you say he was into BDSM?


No not BDSM.....he and his wife were into a lot of 3ways....gang bangs.....but he never talked about anything to hardcore....not on the more violent/dominant side of things. 

The chance that I would be able to find them if they were on the net...would be slim. There are sooooooo many upload sites...Iam not to worried about it. My wife freaked.....because we have two boys and she knows that they will get older and they will more than likely explore that stuff....and to find mommy on there has her in a twist.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> Any of your friends knowwhere he might post videos?
> 
> Please don't befriend any more pervs.


I don't befriend pervs. I also believe to each his own. I know the OM and his wife were into some kink...but that was them. I don't fault people for having their stuff to be into. I have mine....everybody has there kink. He did truly blindside me with the affair. I never would have seen it coming from him.


----------



## Chaparral

MrArachnid said:


> No not BDSM.....he and his wife were into a lot of 3ways....gang bangs.....


I may be wrong but this fits my description of two pervs in an unhappy marriage. What few swingers that I have come in contact with were always hitting on people to join them and are now divorced. One wife ended up beat up.


----------



## MattMatt

MrArachnid said:


> Don't know..and if his drives are "gone" then I wouldn't know how to bother with that.


https://tips.fbi.gov/


----------



## bandit.45

Your wife is now feeling the full consequences of the Great Circle of Dumbassedness. 

How are the mind movies? Are you holding up, getting any counseling?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## allthegoodnamesaregone

MrArachnid said:


> I know its is a bad idea. And I won't do it because I love her too much to do that to her. Well funny you would say that about the STD's....she and I have herpes....so it was a bit nice in a revenge way.....to text my friend to let him know that since she didn't tell him.
> 
> The phone is under my name, why?


I wondered about the same thing, I'd had herpes before I met my wife and had to tell her all about it when we first got serious. We used condoms for years, even when I didn't have an active infection. After a while she said " You don't have to use them all the time, we're married and I'm not going anywhere" She did have symptoms of herpes, but always put it down to a yeast infection, but I'm pretty sure she's have to been exposed to it after 24 years.

I honestly don't think she's given it much thought that she might have it, I know I didn't worry much about it or think about it for years.
It was only a couple of months after she left that I began to think 

" Crap, when I start dating again I have to go through informing whoever I get in a relationship with that I have herpes and possible have it end right there"

Then it hit me, I'll bet she hasn't given much thought to the whole herpes thing for the same reason, she used to be married and it didn't matter. I'm just waiting for the nasty call of how "you ruined my life" when the OM comes down with it ;~)))))


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Your wife is now feeling the full consequences of the Great Circle of Dumbassedness.
> 
> How are the mind movies? Are you holding up, getting any counseling?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



The images have gotten less....and my wife and I have been intimate....one time I had to stop in the middle and walk out....she just laid there and cried because she knew why I stopped and walked out...without me saying why.

For the most part, the intimacy between us is better and there are times she has come on to me and I have to tell her I am not in a good place for it. She told me the other day that she will be there for me in any capacity I need and when I want to be intimate she will be understanding. 

She has definitely come to understand what she did.....completely. She and I are going to counseling together and separately. She has been happier than I remember. I have gotten some issues resolved and the expose' of the affair definitely helped that along.

One day at a time.


----------



## MrArachnid

allthegoodnamesaregone said:


> I wondered about the same thing, I'd had herpes before I met my wife and had to tell her all about it when we first got serious. We used condoms for years, even when I didn't have an active infection. After a while she said " You don't have to use them all the time, we're married and I'm not going anywhere" She did have symptoms of herpes, but always put it down to a yeast infection, but I'm pretty sure she's have to been exposed to it after 24 years.
> 
> I honestly don't think she's given it much thought that she might have it, I know I didn't worry much about it or think about it for years.
> It was only a couple of months after she left that I began to think
> 
> " Crap, when I start dating again I have to go through informing whoever I get in a relationship with that I have herpes and possible have it end right there"
> 
> Then it hit me, I'll bet she hasn't given much thought to the whole herpes thing for the same reason, she used to be married and it didn't matter. I'm just waiting for the nasty call of how "you ruined my life" when the OM comes down with it ;~)))))


Yeah...it is a nice little FU.


----------



## MrArachnid

On another note, I dont remember if I posted this already, I am (with the exception of my existing infection) STD free. I got the results back few weeks ago. I do have to go back for a follow up HIV test in a couple more months but I am feeling so much better knowing that I am not with a deadly infection.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> I may be wrong but this fits my description of two pervs in an unhappy marriage. What few swingers that I have come in contact with were always hitting on people to join them and are now divorced. One wife ended up beat up.


One thing I can say is that ....I know that is right. Usually a swinging partnership ends and badly. I had suspected that the OM is emotionally abusive to his wife but she is no better.

I am fairly certain that they both have issues with degrees of Narcissistic Personality Disorder....after doing a lot of reading and knowing from personal family history.....hindsight has shown some NPD for sure.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> The images have gotten less....and my wife and I have been intimate....one time I had to stop in the middle and walk out....she just laid there and cried because she knew why I stopped and walked out...without me saying why.
> 
> For the most part, the intimacy between us is better and there are times she has come on to me and I have to tell her I am not in a good place for it. She told me the other day that she will be there for me in any capacity I need and when I want to be intimate she will be understanding.
> 
> She has definitely come to understand what she did.....completely. She and I are going to counseling together and separately. She has been happier than I remember. I have gotten some issues resolved and the expose' of the affair definitely helped that along.
> 
> One day at a time.


Just go at your own pace. I would imagine this situation with the video and the stolen hard drive is freaking her out.


----------



## Shaggy

Have you posted the OM on cheaterville.com?


----------



## MrArachnid

Shaggy said:


> Have you posted the OM on cheaterville.com?




?.....no.....but I am now.


----------



## MattMatt

_Dashing off to Cheaterville.com now..._ 

Back now. What a sad site.


----------



## MrArachnid

It is kinda sad.....and I am looking up my states laws first....


----------



## MrArachnid

So I have been reading the E-book...."surviving her affair" by Kevin Jackson and its pretty good. The book mentions PTSD by I guess there is a term being tossed around...Post Infidelity Stress Disorder. I thought it a more poignant term....and then I laughed when I realized the acronym.


----------



## MrArachnid

I am on the boundary of my comfort zone...she went out to "get a fathers day present" The GPS that the spy soft uses is only three satellite and it does not pinpoint closer than three hundred feet....she told me where she was going and she is there. I text and she texts back immediately....and told me to call if I need to....but anyway....ok...for me a little levity is one of my coping mechanisms....

Mickey and Minnie are standing before the Judge during their divorce hearing. The judge reads over the case and looks up at Mickey. "So let me understand this correctly, you want to divorce Minnie because she is crazy", asks the Judge. "NO", Mickey replies sternly, " I want to divorce her because she's F**king Goofy".


----------



## bandit.45

Hey that's a good one. 

So when you get the POS ex BF on Cheaterville send us the link so we can make rude comments about him.


----------



## MattMatt

MrArachnid said:


> I am on the boundary of my comfort zone...she went out to "get a fathers day present" The GPS that the spy soft uses is only three satellite and it does not pinpoint closer than three hundred feet....she told me where she was going and she is there. I text and she texts back immediately....and told me to call if I need to....but anyway....ok...for me a little levity is one of my coping mechanisms....
> 
> Mickey and Minnie are standing before the Judge during their divorce hearing. The judge reads over the case and looks up at Mickey. "So let me understand this correctly, you want to divorce Minnie because she is crazy", asks the Judge. "NO", Mickey replies sternly, " I want to divorce her because she's F**king Goofy".


:rofl::lol:


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Hey that's a good one.
> 
> So when you get the POS ex BF on Cheaterville send us the link so we can make rude comments about him.


I am making sure that I am not breaking laws first....but as soon as I feel comfortable I will not get into trouble over it.....it will be on and I will let you know.


----------



## bandit.45

MrArachnid said:


> I am making sure that I am not breaking laws first....but as soon as I feel comfortable I will not get into trouble over it.....it will be on and I will let you know.


State laws have no control over the internet. You can post what you want.


----------



## MattMatt

Yeah, man. You mentioned your wife's affair to some foreign dude (French? German? Welsh? you forget which, now) and he felt so angry on your behalf that he posted the story on Cheaterville.com.


----------



## MrArachnid

MattMatt said:


> Yeah, man. You mentioned your wife's affair to some foreign dude (French? German? Welsh? you forget which, now) and he felt so angry on your behalf that he posted the story on Cheaterville.com.


:lol:


----------



## MattMatt

MrArachnid said:


> :lol:


Diolch yn fawr! (Bit of Welsh for you, boyo!)


----------



## MrArachnid

Posted him to Cheaterville...will take 48 hours...so it says...I will post the link when available


----------



## MrArachnid

MattMatt said:


> Diolch yn fawr! (Bit of Welsh for you, boyo!)


Call my sons boyo...in the states it makes it easier for them to know who's calling for them....especially in the southern states


----------



## Shaggy

MrArachnid said:


> I am making sure that I am not breaking laws first....but as soon as I feel comfortable I will not get into trouble over it.....it will be on and I will let you know.


Are you stating the truth? Then you are 100% covered.


----------



## Will_Kane

_She told me they were together a few times and she started to feel guilty and broke it off. After she told him it was over, *he came over to our house to tell her he loved her*....she told me that she yelled at him...told him to get the F out and not to bother her anymore._

This one thing doesn't make sense to me. Your wife describes the other man as raping her and threatening her. You describe other man as someone who was just out to use your wife sexually. If so, after your wife broke it off, why would other man come to your house proclaiming his love for her, especially knowing the butt-kicking you were capable of giving him?

Or did this part of your wife's story, about him coming over and telling her he loved her, turn out to be a lie?


----------



## NewM

Why did your wife cheat on you?You said your sex life was good,were you not affectionate enough?But then this guy probably wasn't affectionate guy too.


----------



## aug

Will_Kane said:


> _She told me they were together a few times and she started to feel guilty and broke it off. After she told him it was over, *he came over to our house to tell her he loved her*....she told me that she yelled at him...told him to get the F out and not to bother her anymore._
> 
> This one thing doesn't make sense to me. Your wife describes the other man as raping her and threatening her. You describe other man as someone who was just out to use your wife sexually. If so, after your wife broke it off, why would other man come to your house proclaiming his love for her, especially knowing the butt-kicking you were capable of giving him?
> 
> Or did this part of your wife's story, about him coming over and telling her he loved her, turn out to be a lie?


Good point. If the OM did go suicidal, then their relationship went much deeper.


----------



## MrArachnid

OH MY....someone posted his pic....My how embarrassing!

Some Best Friend


----------



## Chaparral

You need to delete that post unless you want people who google his name to read this thread. Save the link but delete his name.


----------



## Shaggy

But nice job posting that. Hopefully the next time a husband google's him, his entry there will come up and he'll be outed for that snake he is.


----------



## MrArachnid

chapparal said:


> You need to delete that post unless you want people who google his name to read this thread. Save the link but delete his name.


whoops! All Fixed....I didn't think about that ......thanks


----------



## bandit.45

Does your wife know you posted it? Or is it going to be a surprise?

By the way MrA I hope you are having a great Father's Day! Did the little lady do something special for you?


----------



## MattMatt

Looks like a real catch! The kind of real catch you get on an "ugly fish" programme on a nature channel!


----------



## MrArachnid

bandit.45 said:


> Does your wife know you posted it? Or is it going to be a surprise?
> 
> By the way MrA I hope you are having a great Father's Day! Did the little lady do something special for you?


I think it will be a surprise. I mentioned that I was considering putting his mug up on the site. She didn't seem offended at the idea.

I had a nice father's day.....the Mrs. had a photobook timeline made with pics of the kids, myself and her...oh and my fur baby, Bella. More of the kids from birth and special times we had in the past. I was really touched by the thought she put into it.


----------



## MrArachnid

MattMatt said:


> Looks like a real catch! The kind of real catch you get on an "ugly fish" programme on a nature channel!


Yeah I had a movie quote running through my head since you said that...."Him? That can't be the OM (quote changed for content). I'm prettier than this man"


----------



## MrArachnid

Will_Kane said:


> _She told me they were together a few times and she started to feel guilty and broke it off. After she told him it was over, *he came over to our house to tell her he loved her*....she told me that she yelled at him...told him to get the F out and not to bother her anymore._
> 
> This one thing doesn't make sense to me. Your wife describes the other man as raping her and threatening her. You describe other man as someone who was just out to use your wife sexually. If so, after your wife broke it off, why would other man come to your house proclaiming his love for her, especially knowing the butt-kicking you were capable of giving him?
> 
> Or did this part of your wife's story, about him coming over and telling her he loved her, turn out to be a lie?



No, since all this has come out she has been on the up and up....at first she was dodgy about the information but since our counseling sessions and the books I have been reading (which she is reading also) she has been clear as crystal about anything I ask. She is understanding the importance. 

I questioned her recently about there being an EA prior to the PA and she agreed that he filled a need I wasn't...which I knew to be true....I do not blame myself for this. She had never tried to sit me down before the PA and have a conversation about it. We had our arguments and thinking back it was alot of pent of frustrations that should have been brought out and I should have been more willing to listen.

As for the rape/mistreatment, she said that she fell into his Bull about being sorry for being demanding and forceful and trying to be friends and nothing more. She said she trusted that and he took advantage of the fact that they were alone and no one knew what was going on. She said in a way she felt she deserved it for allowing the affair and just stopped caring about herself. knowing her as well as I do, I can see this being true. She admitted that the first few times she was a willing participant.....and then he became something else.

I talked with an old girlfriend of mine from 20 years ago on facebook. When she and I started dating was when I became friends with the OM. She told me then that she didn't like him and that I shouldn't hang out with him....so I complied for a while. My exGF was never forthright about why she didn't want me to hang out with him......so I asked her recently. It turns out that the OM had basically sexually assaulted her on a blind date that , as she put it, wasn't really a date. She has no reason to lie to me and knows nothing about my recent events. So apparently there is history of this type of thing from him. 

I don't think my wife is lying about her mistreatment and I think she is being honest that even though she said no....she felt like she deserved it. I told her that she needs to do what all good counsel tells victims of abuse and that is to detail in writing what the abuser did, why it was wrong, etc. She is going to do that. We still have to send our No Contact letters.....we had them written and then started researching state law and found that there are somethings we have to do to make this more substantial.


----------



## MrArachnid

aug said:


> Good point. If the OM did go suicidal, then their relationship went much deeper.


He is far to narcissistic to even consider suicide....his proclamation of "love" is for the PA. Growing up that was his idea of love.....sex.....you think people would grow the F**K up...but he has never it seems.


----------



## warlock07

How did this f*cker get away with raping woman all his life? It is times like this that I wish for some vigilante justice


----------



## MattMatt

MrArachnid said:


> Yeah I had a movie quote running through my head since you said that...."Him? That can't be the OM (quote changed for content). I'm prettier than this man"


Yep. As a very dear mutual friend of my then girl friend and I said when she saw her with the new boy friend she had left me for: "Dear God! You gave Matt up for THAT?? What for? You DAD is better looking than him!"

I looked at my replacement and thought: "What the Hell is wrong with me that she gave me up for him?" (That was before I found out he was a 'millionaire property developer'.  

Apparently millionaire property developer is some kind of code for fraudulent ex-con... 
:rofl:


----------



## bandit.45

MattMatt said:


> Yep. As a very dear mutual friend of my then girl friend and I said when she saw her with the new boy friend she had left me for: "Dear God! You gave Matt up for THAT?? What for? You DAD is better looking than him!"
> 
> I looked at my replacement and thought: "What the Hell is wrong with me that she gave me up for him?" (That was before I found out he was a 'millionaire property developer'.
> 
> Apparently millionaire property developer is some kind of code for fraudulent ex-con...
> :rofl:


Why did you take her back? And don't give me the weepy "because I loved her" crap. 

Oh wait.... that's what I did the first time my ex cheated on me. :scratchhead:


----------



## warlock07

MattMatt said:


> Yep. As a very dear mutual friend of my then girl friend and I said when she saw her with the new boy friend she had left me for: "Dear God! You gave Matt up for THAT?? What for? You DAD is better looking than him!"
> 
> I looked at my replacement and thought: "What the Hell is wrong with me that she gave me up for him?" (That was before I found out he was a 'millionaire property developer'.
> 
> Apparently millionaire property developer is some kind of code for fraudulent ex-con...
> :rofl:


haha..Any good karma story here?>


----------



## MrArachnid

warlock07 said:


> How did this f*cker get away with raping woman all his life? It is times like this that I wish for some vigilante justice


I have been asking myself this question a lot lately....the thing that bothers me is that I called him friend. I can say with a fair amount of certainty that he has done an incredible job of hiding his amoral side from me over the years. He knows how i felt about the mistreatment of women so, being the narcissist that I am fairly certain he is, he would have never showed that to me.

He would have acted with the degree of socially acceptable behavior that he knew I was comfortable with and I have disagreed with his views before.


----------



## MrArachnid

WTF!!!!! This Bast**D is bringing this to my front door. He sent the police to my door saying I stole his SH*T. His hard drives are "stolen" and I somehow am being fingered......what a bunch of Bullsh*t. Gloves are off. Bring on the fight. Now I have to deal with this. I am getting an order of protection ASAP. Yes, but not for my benefit...for his.


Anyone want to see the email traffic he started?


----------



## iheartlife

How did you become friends? Sorry if already asked and answered.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## vi_bride04

Sure, i got my popcorn


----------



## MrArachnid

iheartlife said:


> How did you become friends? Sorry if already asked and answered.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


He was n acquaintance of a friend. He and I were the same age and when you live in a small town and are one of 10 punk rockers you tend to gravitate to people more tolerant of who you are...he was into some of the same music and he an I would go out clubbing. We were roommates for a time until he got a woman pregnant. Stayed friends but I was on my bachelor high and he was settling down. Fast forward 10 years, he and I reunite and became close again. He has been there since before I met my wife, while I met my wife, and subsequently made her my wife....the birth of my youngest son.....F**K him!!


----------



## twentyyears

After being married 3 years I learned of a 3 month workplace affair, we went to 6 months of counseling and other than the rare occasion when we had to drive past the sleezy no-tell motel where it occurred, I thought we were through it. 10 years later, after 2 children, I learned of 6-7 more affairs, including one with a brother-in-law and one with my best friend. These occurred throughout the 13 year period. We divorced. Things I have learned:
1) Time dulls but doesn't heal, I still think of the friend a few times per week - 20 years later.
2) I don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater" but I do believe this is true in the original relationship. If she/he cheated on you once then she/he is 90% likely to do it again - regardless of what is said or promised. They have already proven their selfish ability to ignore promises. They may not cheat in some future relationship but they will in your current one.
3) Get out before their are children involved.


----------



## Marc878

It lives!!!!!!! Another zombie!!!! Run!!!!!!'


----------



## SunCMars

Whew! Thanks Mark....Augusto, circa 1978.

I almost answered this dry-rotted post. My virtual "ink pen" would have administered a Puffer Fish voodoo potion that would have made it "semi-live", again!

In a former life I was a fierce Houngans.....one ugly SOB.


----------



## MattMatt

Zombie thread closed down.


----------

