# Needle in a haystack?



## WasDecimated

So, I was having this conversation with a divorced buddy of mine about how hard it is to find woman at our age (50-52). We seem to be experiencing the same problems in our search. We discussed that there just doesn’t seem to be many women available in our age range. We are both active, physically fit and have great incomes. We logically, should be able to attract a mate but attracting a mate isn't the issue but rather finding a mate. Another friend walked up during the conversation and started sighting some world population numbers and said there are millions of women out there right under our noses and that we just weren’t looking hard enough. 

This got us thinking about what the actual numbers really are. We decided to do a little Googling to see if he was really correct. 

This is what we came up with.


World population 7.3 Billion
US Population 320,050,716
% Women 50.8%
My state Population 9,883,640
Female State Population Female 5,035,526
Female State Population ages 45 to 49 375,048
County population Women 45 to 49 67,550
County population Women (My Race) 45 to 49 16,887
County population Single Women (My Race) 45 to 49 8,443
~ Excluding ½ that are already in relationships 4,221
~ Assuming physical attraction – (1/10) 422
~ Assuming mutual physical attraction – (1/5) 84
~ Assuming chemistry (personality, intellectual, spiritual) - (1/2) 42



I realize that there are all kinds of variables not factored in to this. It's not exactly scientific. This is just based on numbers, the majority real and a few assumed. We concluded that there were only 42 women in our entire county that could potentially be a match for either of us. That is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack. Understand, of course, that this was just for fun, I’m not taking these numbers seriously but it does say something about how hard it is to find a partner in our lives. 

Thoughts?


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## RoseAglow

There's a great TED talk by a woman who thought along your lines. She figured out just how man were actually in her targeted dating pool, then 
she created/strategize hacks for online dating to get her guy. You might enjoy the talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_webb_how_i_hacked_online_dating?language=en


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## SecondTime'Round

Interesting . Doesn't sound too far off to me.


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## Ynot

My thoughts? How is that any different than at any other point in your life? Stop looking for scarcity and start looking for abundance. Instead of looking for a match, go out and live your life. Your "match" will come to you. Just like it (should have) did the first time around.


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## happy as a clam

Interesting when you break it down like that OP.

But I gotta agree with Ynot... Instead of endlessly searching for those 42 women, go out and live a rich, full life. Be the best person you can be, do interesting things, meet new people just for the fun of it, be a dynamic guy. Believe me, those 42 women will find you!

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Marduk

My dad is older than you and he's beating them off with a stick.

He says the biggest problem with women that age is that they either want to get remarried right away, or are so busy being all about themselves that they complain about everything.

His solution is to find large groups of friends with common interests, and he meets tons of women that way -- and he refuses to marry again, be exclusive, or to allow himself to get sucked into drama.

He casts a pretty broad net though. Since he's not looking for a serious relationship, he enjoys their company for what they offer -- some for excercise, some for travel, some for romance. But none for all.

He seems happy.


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## WasDecimated

I wish I could be more like your dad. If there is no chemistry or physical attraction, I don't waste my time. I'm too busy living my life...doing things, going places to spend time with someone I'm not really into. 



> He says the biggest problem with women that age is that they either want to get remarried right away, or are so busy being all about themselves that they complain about everything.


I agree with this. I've met a lot of them myself. Most of the ones that I met who want to get married right away are just looking for someone to financially take care of them. No more knight in shining armor for me, I've learned my lesson.

The one's who are all about themselves remind me of my XWW. No thanks.

Maybe I'm too picky?


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## WorkingOnMe

WTF are you going to do with 42 women??? You'll be lucky if you can still walk after a year of that.


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## Marduk

Decimated said:


> I wish I could be more like your dad. If there is no chemistry or physical attraction, I don't waste my time. I'm too busy living my life...doing things, going places to spend time with someone I'm not really into.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with this. I've met a lot of them myself. Most of the ones that I met who want to get married right away are just looking for someone to financially take care of them. No more knight in shining armor for me, I've learned my lesson.
> 
> The one's who are all about themselves remind me of my XWW. No thanks.
> 
> Maybe I'm too picky?


What kind of relationship are you looking for?

Why are you looking for that kind of relationship?

What kind of woman are you looking for??


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## WasDecimated

marduk said:


> What kind of relationship are you looking for?
> 
> Why are you looking for that kind of relationship?
> 
> What kind of woman are you looking for??


I'm not searching...I'm just keeping my eyes open while living my life. honestly, I don't even think I ever want to get married again. This exercise was just to see why we haven't come across that many women in our age range.


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## Marduk

Decimated said:


> I'm not searching...I'm just keeping my eyes open while living my life. honestly, I don't even think I ever want to get married again. This exercise was just to see why we haven't come across that many women in our age range.


Here's the thing. 

Math always wins. In domains where it intersects with reality. 

It fails in domains that it doesn't describe or intersect with reality. 

I think romance is one of those domains.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WasDecimated

marduk said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> Math always wins. In domains where it intersects with reality.
> 
> It fails in domains that it doesn't describe or intersect with reality.
> 
> I think romance is one of those domains.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


True but I don't think it wins or loses here, we are dealing with intangibles, variables and luck. It's just an indicator of the numerical odds.


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## Marduk

Decimated said:


> True but I don't think it wins or loses here, we are dealing with intangibles, variables and luck. It's just an indicator of the numerical odds.


New women are re-entering the dating scene every day. 

Be open. Free of expectation. 

Make lots of friends with great women and then don't try to sleep with them. Soon they will be trying to hook you up with all their single friends.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail

You should not have been surprised that the answer was 42, in fact it seems to shed some light on what the Question really is.


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## Bananapeel

Mr. Nail said:


> You should not have been surprised that the answer was 42, in fact it seems to shed some light on what the Question really is.


Haha!! 

The number 42 is, in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams, "The Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything", calculated by an enormous supercomputer named Deep Thought over a period of 7.5 million years.


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## Steve1000

Decimated said:


> ~ Excluding ½ that are already in relationships 4,221
> ~ Assuming physical attraction – (1/10) 422


In my opinion, one of your problems is that you only find 10% of available women to be attractive enough for you.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno

I think you need to change the order of your selection pick.
And some of the underlying numbers.
First focus on the things you can change, which is the need to prioritize race.
Are you really saying that there is no way you would even consider a relationship beyond your own race?
If it's true, then you might need to adjust downward your other compatibility ratios to account for women who don't match on values, lifestyle, etc.
But that aside, you could also change your value system so that you're more attracted to any woman who matches you on value/moral /lifestyle compatibility than just appealing to you physically.
You could also consider that if you're matching on values/lifestyle/morals then you'll be more attractive to women who are truly a good match, and they might very well consider leaving the relationship you assume they're in as it might not be fully committed, just need a better option (if your value system includes women who have been in a recent relationship.)
You might also consider women who could be convinced to move into your county or state which is more likely for a woman who knows she matches on values/lifestyle than just for looks.
Your fate is more in your own hands than you might think.
The world is as malleable as your insight into it, and yourself. 
You only need one. But it's better to start as being the one for someone else. Then your luck is attached to the luck you're making for the other person, within reason.


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## Chuck71

Could be worse OP..... you could live in east TN.... very rural. You can run into an attractive female

quite easy. Then you have to make sure "yunzez aint related"


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## 2ntnuf

What you posted in the op seems true. What marduk posted about romance or lurv being anything but logical is also true. Think back to your marriage and you will see how illogical it all seems today. 

HNU, kind of made sense to me except that when you adjust for all of those character factors and attraction, there would seem to be even less available women in your county. 

So, my thoughts immediately went toward expanding your search area. It's the only way. 

The thing that bothers me is, how many women after menopause are there out there who actually want to have sex enough to look for it. I think that's the issue with the number of available women and the idea that some want to get married quickly. I think there is a certain age where men and women would like to have someone around for their old age, sicknesses and death. Children have all moved away, but not in all cases. I would think it's a security thing. 

Friends, who might possibly have sex once in a while, but live their own lives seems more likely in older folks looking after 50. It's the couples who meet during perimenopause when the woman is highly sexual that seem to end up married as she starts to cool down and the man thinks, "wow, I want to spend the rest of my life with this woman". 

An example from my own life is my own mother, who has passed on. She married for a second time at the age of 70. I thought it was great at the time, but many in the family thought it was not the right thing to do. The traveling stopped after they got married. Reminds me of some threads here where wives have lost interest or feel like they've been duped. 

The trouble with marriage at a late age is the children don't really think it is necessary and have little respect for their parent's decision. They don't like some woman or man moving into the home where they may still have items stored which are very important to them. They are afraid the new husband or wife will get rid of them. They are afraid of many things which spoil the relationship between the elderly newlyweds. 

I guess there are ways around much of that and it certainly doesn't happen in all cases. It does happen. 

It's also possible to find a woman, a family, a life within a marriage at an advanced age that is very satisfying. It does happen. I suppose you'd have to widen that search radius even more? I don't know. I can't imagine raising children and I don't want to do so. It is, if you love children that much, a way to find a younger spouse and feel like a part of a family. I just don't think most men, 50 and older, want to do that. 

I just can't imagine many 50 and older women who want much more than a chaperone for a night out. I find it tough to believe that most really want an active sex life after menopause. I keep reading it's more like pity, obligation or just to keep her husband from being unhappy. Not sure that's ever what I wanted. Everyone is different. Denial is an odd thing. We can believe many things we really have no reason for accepting. 

I don't know. I didn't want this to be a depressing message. I intended it to be more upbeat. I guess I believe there is a chance, but it's very slim the older we get.


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## Red Sonja

There *are *women in your age range that are not looking to remarry, want an active sex life and don’t require financial support.

I am one and I’m sure I’m not unique.


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## arbitrator

WorkingOnMe said:


> WTF are you going to do with 42 women??? You'll be lucky if you can still walk after a year of that.


*If I got 42 women together in a room, I'd probably go political on them and give them my campaign speech!

Interesting numbers there for a man in his 50's! Which greatly tells me that those very same "equivalency numbers" are even far worse for a man like me in my early 60's! 

And much like my friend, @Decimated ~ I am not really counting on getting remarried! For that to ever occur, lightning would have to unexpectedly strike from somewhere out of left field! Fact of the matter is that Ol' Arb seems to be every bit as picky as the those available women are!

And at this age in my life, that would preeminently be the exception much rather than the rule! *
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hoosier

I don't know where you live, but the most surprising fact for me post divorce is the sheer number of quality women out there! I have been divorced 4.5 years and I have dated quite a bit and really only did not enjoy myself, find them attractive, less than 10% of the time. Now a number of them were obviously not a match, but I still found them interesting and attractive (a number still text to say hello once in a while). I have noticed that my requirements in the "looks" department have changed since my younger years, not near as important, but many other requirements have went the other way (wont date anyone who is "high maintaince" for example, no matter how cute). When I was first divorced, a friend told me that I would be ok (after 30 years of marriage, I was worried) he said "You have the 3 P's. Property, Paycheck, and Personality, you will be fine" Don't know about Personality part, but my biggest problem is the few that want to get married right away, something I will NEVER do again. While that has ruled out a few, not stopped me from having ample opportunity to date. 
I am an insurance agent, started working in insurance n 1981. In 1981, interest rates were in the teens, unemployment was double digits, it was a mess. My boss told me at the time that if unemployment were 15% then 85% of the people were still working, concentrate on them.....


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## Chuck71

Geography always plays a pivotal role. After my break-up with post-D gf in late 2014, I dated a lot. A great deal of first contact to me were females exactly my age to early 50s. 42-51. They usually fell into four categories.... unresolved issues, never wanting to get serious again, utterly bitter, and healthy.

Unresolved issues... usually trust. I don't work well with these. If they have unresolved conflicts from previous relationships, I want no part of it. They should work on themselves THEN start dating. These show their red flags quickly... if you are not paying attention, they vagina bomb you and within six months, they want M. They want M first so they can finally unlock that closet full of her skeletons and hope you are a KISA / Mr. Fixer. Once you see these flags early on.... RUN. My last post in LaD Crossroads II gives a perfect example of one.

Never wanting to be serious... now if the woman has kids, most grown or in HS.... near fresh out of a M, I can see why she wouldn't. These want 2-3 nights a week and nothing more. No "where were you on nights you were not with her." Perfectooooo ..... wait about six weeks. Women must have that emotional connection. Maybe not at first, maybe it was just wild kinky sex. Then she wants a LTR, not M mind you, just LTR. Then.... they mix into the unresolved issues and bitterness. Well guys... this comes with most R. Guys..... if you don't want anything more than LTR or hot sex FWB.... this may be worth a try. LT for me.... no, I want kids.

The bitter ones.... fortunately these are spotted easily. Not a day goes by without her going on a tirade about her XH. You can have great sex and be laying in bed, "John never would finish.... he would get his jollies and roll over. He never held me after sex, he would get up and go to the den and watch ESPN or MLB." For some reason guys... you see why John did. These keep scorecards.... "You did more for me in the last month than John did the last three years." But..... when they drink and get nostalgic.... all those great memories she had with John. These are worse than the unresolved issues ones... at least the unresolved can maybe, get past things. These can't and truth be told.... don't want to.

Now the healthy ones... they're hard to find. They worked on themselves and freely admit they played a part in the crumbling of their M. They co-parent healthy and the kid's dad is happy his XW has met someone or at least, does not stir schit. But... this is from a guy's POV dating women. I am fully aware women dating D men has it's own challenges. Most of these are very approachable in terms of talking to. They understand, in my case, I would like to have children. They harbor no ill-will and will say up front.... if you can't see anything down the road because I am too old to have children, I'd love to date you but it can only go so far and.... I want more. Or they still want to date you.... granted both know going forward the other's wants.

From my early 20s to my mid-20s... I dated women in their 30s and even early 40s. I loved the maturity, no drama, no games, no BS. I had a blast! It did stop when I met my future XW.... I was 25, she was 32.

I see an astounding difference in say.... women 10-15 years older than I, circa 1996 and women 10-15 years younger than me today. Their values were so different, growing up in the late 60s, the 70s. Young adulthood in the early 80s.

Today... I feel like I am "dating the children of the women I used to date."


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## SurpriseMyself

Decimated said:


> I'm not searching...I'm just keeping my eyes open while living my life. honestly, I don't even think I ever want to get married again. This exercise was just to see why we haven't come across that many women in our age range.


Funny, because I bet there are tons of women on online dating sites in your age range. Are you doing online dating?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974

Chuck71 said:


> Geography always plays a pivotal role. After my break-up with post-D gf in late 2014, I dated a lot. A great deal of first contact to me were females exactly my age to early 50s. 42-51. They usually fell into four categories.... unresolved issues, never wanting to get serious again, utterly bitter, and healthy.
> 
> Unresolved issues... usually trust. I don't work well with these. If they have unresolved conflicts from previous relationships, I want no part of it. They should work on themselves THEN start dating. These show their red flags quickly... if you are not paying attention, they vagina bomb you and within six months, they want M. They want M first so they can finally unlock that closet full of her skeletons and hope you are a KISA / Mr. Fixer. Once you see these flags early on.... RUN. My last post in LaD Crossroads II gives a perfect example of one.
> 
> Never wanting to be serious... now if the woman has kids, most grown or in HS.... near fresh out of a M, I can see why she wouldn't. These want 2-3 nights a week and nothing more. No "where were you on nights you were not with her." Perfectooooo ..... wait about six weeks. Women must have that emotional connection. Maybe not at first, maybe it was just wild kinky sex. Then she wants a LTR, not M mind you, just LTR. Then.... they mix into the unresolved issues and bitterness. Well guys... this comes with most R. Guys..... if you don't want anything more than LTR or hot sex FWB.... this may be worth a try. LT for me.... no, I want kids.
> 
> The bitter ones.... fortunately these are spotted easily. Not a day goes by without her going on a tirade about her XH. You can have great sex and be laying in bed, "John never would finish.... he would get his jollies and roll over. He never held me after sex, he would get up and go to the den and watch ESPN or MLB." For some reason guys... you see why John did. These keep scorecards.... "You did more for me in the last month than John did the last three years." But..... when they drink and get nostalgic.... all those great memories she had with John. These are worse than the unresolved issues ones... at least the unresolved can maybe, get past things. These can't and truth be told.... don't want to.
> 
> Now the healthy ones... they're hard to find. They worked on themselves and freely admit they played a part in the crumbling of their M. They co-parent healthy and the kid's dad is happy his XW has met someone or at least, does not stir schit. But... this is from a guy's POV dating women. I am fully aware women dating D men has it's own challenges. Most of these are very approachable in terms of talking to. They understand, in my case, I would like to have children. They harbor no ill-will and will say up front.... if you can't see anything down the road because I am too old to have children, I'd love to date you but it can only go so far and.... I want more. Or they still want to date you.... granted both know going forward the other's wants.
> 
> From my early 20s to my mid-20s... I dated women in their 30s and even early 40s. I loved the maturity, no drama, no games, no BS. I had a blast! It did stop when I met my future XW.... I was 25, she was 32.
> 
> I see an astounding difference in say.... women 10-15 years older than I, circa 1996 and women 10-15 years younger than me today. Their values were so different, growing up in the late 60s, the 70s. Young adulthood in the early 80s.
> 
> Today... I feel like I am "dating the children of the women I used to date."


Couldn't agree more. This is the same analysis that I have had of the dating scene.


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## 2ntnuf

Man, that was a great post C71. 

A few things stood out for me and I want to own my shyt. 

I do realize you are talking about women you've encountered. I actually realized because of this post, how bitter I actually am. Good thing I'm still in counseling. I don't know when or if I will ever be the man I was when I first married my second wife. 




> The bitter ones.... fortunately these are spotted easily. *Not a day goes by without her going on a tirade about her XH.* You can have great sex and be laying in bed, "John never would finish.... he would get his jollies and roll over. He never held me after sex, he would get up and go to the den and watch ESPN or MLB." For some reason guys... you see why John did. *These keep scorecards....* "You did more for me in the last month than John did the last three years." But..... when they drink and get nostalgic.... all those great memories she had with John. These are worse than the unresolved issues ones... at least the unresolved can maybe, get past things. These can't and truth be told....* don't want to.
> *


I have stopped the tirades every day, but can still be triggered by some conversations I am in or just overhear by proximity. 

I don't yet know if I ever kept a scorecard. I really don't think I did. I didn't even think much about it, as long as I was treated decently, most of the time. Now, I probably think more about "fair treatment" than I ever did. I blame part of that on the education I have gotten here at TAM. It's been helpful, but knowing the "rules" without having understanding of humanity can add to bitterness.



Don't want to get past them is truth. They might be able, but it's secure and safe where I hurt. I know pain. I know the suffering. I don't want to know real joy. I found it, or what I believed it to be. It almost killed me, though it surely changed me and my life as it relates to my siblings, my adult children, and everyone else. 



> I see an astounding difference in say.... women 10-15 years older than I, circa 1996 and women 10-15 years younger than me today. Their values were so different, growing up in the late 60s, the 70s. Young adulthood in the early 80s.


You ain't shyttin'. I'm from that group. I'm 53 and will turn 54 in September. There is a huge difference and it's a huge turn off. I don't even want to waste my time talking about the weather most times. It's a shame, cause there's nothing wrong with them. I just don't understand them and do not even want to try. Funny though, they seem to understand the basic principles of what I say. They just don't believe in them. 

An example is, the other day at work, a young woman asked me what I do with my friends. I said, "I don't". She asked if I have any friends. I said, "No, I don't". She kind of laughed, but then must have thought better and asked, "Why don't you have any friends"? I told her, "Friends have sex with your wife. I don't need any." "But, you're not married. So, they won't be having sex with your...", and she stopped. I replied, "Yeah, that's right. It's even more likely that a friend would have sex with a girlfriend, than a wife, because she wouldn't be as committed, but maybe I would since I don't do ONS or FWB". She could not understand that. 

And no, I have not dated at all, not once. It's going on 5 years since she split. I really don't want to date at this point. I verbally push them away. Most times, I don't even realize what I am doing. It doesn't even bother me to do it. 

Counseling will be my friend, likely for a long time.

The above paragraph does not mean I am looking. I just found this stuff out by accident, trying to talk about mundane things and having the conversation take a small detour. Yeah, it drives me further into the bitterness and self-preservation modes. It drives my opinions that I don't even give a crap if I ever go anywhere again. I'll live my life the way I see fit, and it isn't the way most would. 

It's a real serious shame. I'll continue to work on it. Maybe some day, I'll once again see the value in some of it.


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## WasDecimated

SurpriseMyself said:


> Funny, because I bet there are tons of women on online dating sites in your age range. Are you doing online dating?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I was OLDing for about 6 months but that was about 2 years ago. Surprisingly enough, there were not really that many women in my age range, and even less quality women. I could go back to OLD tomorrow and see many of the same profiles still there. Something about that OLD process seemed to be un-natural to me. I would much rather do it the old fashioned way…whatever that is.



2ntnuf said:


> An example is, the other day at work, a young woman asked me what I do with my friends. I said, "I don't". She asked if I have any friends. I said, "No, I don't". She kind of laughed, but then must have thought better and asked, "Why don't you have any friends"? I told her, "Friends have sex with your wife. I don't need any." "But, you're not married. So, they won't be having sex with your...", and she stopped. I replied, "Yeah, that's right. It's even more likely that a friend would have sex with a girlfriend, than a wife, because she wouldn't be as committed, but maybe I would since I don't do ONS or FWB". She could not understand that.
> 
> And no, I have not dated at all, not once. It's going on 5 years since she split. I really don't want to date at this point. I verbally push them away. Most times, I don't even realize what I am doing. It doesn't even bother me to do it.


I can understand this thinking. Part of me feels the same. I am very cautious about who my friends are now even though the POS my XWW was cheating with was not my friend. I always wonder which divorced women are divorced because they were cheaters. The women I met on OLD always had a story for why they were divorced. Honestly, not many of them made much sense. The really common answer seemed to be “we just grew apart” which IMO, just doesn’t happen without effort, or a lack of... I do fear being cheated on again. It has happened to me twice in my life, thus 2 divorces. I’m not looking for a third. Because of this, I am selective about who I date. If I see one red flag, I’m gone.


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## 2ntnuf

Decimated said:


> I can understand this thinking. Part of me feels the same. I am very cautious about who my friends are now even though the POS my XWW was cheating with was not my friend. I always wonder which divorced women are divorced because they were cheaters. The women I met on OLD always had a story for why they were divorced. *Honestly, not many of them made much sense.* The really common answer seemed to be “we just grew apart” which IMO, just doesn’t happen without effort, or a lack of... I do fear being cheated on again. It has happened to me twice in my life, thus 2 divorces. I’m not looking for a third. Because of this, I am selective about who I date. If I see one red flag, I’m gone.


Of course, you know that's a huge red flag for hiding something. Basically, it's a lie of either omission or outright lie of denial. Either way, not worth it. I don't think it's appropriate to get into details with a potential dater, but there is a happy medium and owning my own issues, which should be easy to talk about if I have worked on them and am proud of myself for the improvements.

Maybe it's just a matter of timing? I mean, a date can tell you something about them, before you get into all that. Do you think you fall in love too quickly?

Unfortunately, what I posted does not mean I don't long for sex, love, joy, openness and honesty in a loving relationship. It doesn't mean I don't look at women and think, man, I'd like to get to know her. She turns me on. I wonder what she is like(her mind)?


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## Chuck71

But..... how many M / F are going to come out and say..... I destroyed a M by cheating?

Then add.... I was honest.... don't you want to date me?

Hence the "we grew apart"


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## Red Sonja

2ntnuf said:


> Of course, you know that's a huge red flag for hiding something. Basically, it's a lie of either omission or outright lie of denial.


*OR*, she does not know you well enough for her personal life to be any of your business ... yet.

Of course, I personally would say just that ... a version of "none of your business" presented in a kind and polite manner.


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## 2ntnuf

Red Sonja said:


> *OR*, she does not know you well enough for her personal life to be any of your business ... yet.
> 
> Of course, I personally would say just that ... a version of "none of your business" presented in a kind and polite manner.


I agree with you Red. Look at what I have in bold font below.



2ntnuf said:


> Of course, you know that's a huge red flag for hiding something. Basically, it's a lie of either omission or outright lie of denial. Either way, not worth it. *I don't think it's appropriate to get into details with a potential dater*, but there is a happy medium and owning my own issues, which should be easy to talk about if I have worked on them and am proud of myself for the improvements.
> 
> Maybe it's just a matter of timing?* I mean, a date can tell you something about them, before you get into all that.* Do you think you fall in love too quickly?


C71, you take a second look at that too.



Chuck71 said:


> But..... how many M / F are going to come out and say..... I destroyed a M by cheating?
> 
> Then add.... I was honest.... don't you want to date me?
> 
> Hence the "we grew apart"


Come on folks. Why are you being so jumpy?


C71,

Once you've been dating for a while and it looks like there's a potential for a longer term relationship, I'm thinking it might be fairly easy to come up with the truth without getting into it negatively. But, you're right. No one is going to be completely truthful.

I think the best anyone can hope for is the general knowledge that they had an affair or whatever your personal situation was and basically why you thought it was necessary, as well as what you believe today and why. 

Though, as Red Sonja said, you aren't going to say all of that on a first date. 

I'm thinking it's best not to have sex on the first date, especially if you fall in love easily. I'd say it would take some time to get familiar enough with each other. Who knows how long it will take? 

Then, you have the issue of, "Is s/he having sex while I'm trying to figure out if we are compatible?" I think that's an issue because it obviously shows you aren't compatible, but you will never know unless someone has a slip of the tongue and that's usually too late and figured as not a big deal.

Truthfully, I don't think any of that deeper stuff is coming out until there is sex. So, some of us are screwed. Maybe all of us, and it isn't going to feel good.


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## SunnyT

2ntnuf said:


> Truthfully, I don't think any of that deeper stuff is coming out until there is sex. So, some of us are screwed. Maybe all of us, and it isn't going to feel good.


Actually, that is what I liked about online dating. Because you are still kind of anonymous, it can get personal in an impersonal kind of way. H and I were long distance tho, so we talked often.... and we were on a midlife crisis forum, so all these relationship issues came up as every day discussion. Of course there is the "so much cooler online" people....but those tend to be the people who think they're so much "cooler" in real life too. 

I just think that we really understood each other before we met. We talked about alot of personal things, including sex, money, kids, careers, family, red flags and deal breakers.... way before sex ever happened.

Edited to add: And people CAN be truthful. It's our own baggage that affects how we hear it.


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## 2ntnuf

SunnyT said:


> Actually, that is what I liked about online dating. Because you are still kind of anonymous, it can get personal in an impersonal kind of way. H and I were long distance tho, so we talked often.... and we were on a midlife crisis forum, so all these relationship issues came up as every day discussion. Of course there is the "so much cooler online" people....but those tend to be the people who think they're so much "cooler" in real life too.
> 
> I just think that we really understood each other before we met. We talked about alot of personal things, including sex, money, kids, careers, family, red flags and deal breakers.... way before sex ever happened.
> 
> Edited to add: And people CAN be truthful. It's our own baggage that affects how we hear it.


Seems kind of chicken s**t. :laugh: I know it happens and I would probably fall into that category with many in real life. Though, there are many I have been pretty darn open with in real life and was not interested in dating, at all. 

So, yeah, I think folks can be honest. They just usually don't choose to be. Remember, our memories change over time without our control. They just do so to keep us safe from harm. 

I think so differently from most, I can't imagine anyone understanding me. 

I do not want to date online. You never know who you are speaking with. There are many more traps online than in real life. If they don't want to meet for a coffee or something in a public place, forget it. We can do all the talking face to face. No need for the online stuff. Anyone can grab someone's phone and text a message to you and make you believe it's your SO. They can ruin a marriage or a life. 

Thank you for being optimistic. 

I'm truly not trying to be negative. It's the place I'm at now. I am not willing to trust my emotions with anyone. I don't think anyone is that trustworthy. I really don't think that's all that unusual. Even Red Sonja said she wouldn't trust someone with any of that personal information. So, it is what it is.


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## SunnyT

2ntnuf said:


> I'm truly not trying to be negative. It's the place I'm at now. I am not willing to trust my emotions with anyone. I don't think anyone is that trustworthy. I really don't think that's all that unusual. Even Red Sonja said she wouldn't trust someone with any of that personal information. So, it is what it is.


Well ya.... it is what it is. I don't think you are being negative. You are protecting yourself....and that is what we all have to do. 

I don't think everyone HAS to be with someone anyway. We are all a work in progress, some more than others. 

Get to a good place for yourself.....that is all that matters.


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## 2ntnuf

SunnyT said:


> Well ya.... it is what it is. I don't think you are being negative. You are protecting yourself....and that is what we all have to do.
> 
> *I don't think everyone HAS to be with someone anyway.* We are all a work in progress, some more than others.
> 
> Get to a good place for yourself.....that is all that matters.


Not so sure about that. However, there is a time for everything. 










By FireflySixtySeven - Own work using Inkscape, based on Maslow's paper, A Theory of Human Motivation., CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=36551248

Thanks for your support, Sunny.


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## SunnyT

I agree with Maslow..... but these things are not black and white. There is over-lapping, there are growth periods that don't mesh with other stages, and there is nothing wrong with that. 

There are also no time limits on these things. 

...and who wouldn't support a Calvin and Hobbs fan?


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## WasDecimated

2ntnuf said:


> Do you think you fall in love too quickly?


No...the opposite. I actually wonder if I will ever be able to fall in love again. I have went out with a fair amount of women during my 6 months of OLD. Certainly enough to experience a good cross section of what's available but rarely did I meet someone that I even wanted a second date with. I know many guys that were cheated on, divorced, met new women, and got remarried within a couple years. I'm happy for them but I don't understand...

I wonder if anyone else that's been through the infidelity ringer has experienced this?


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## WasDecimated

Steve1000 said:


> In my opinion, one of your problems is that you only find 10% of available women to be attractive enough for you.


I still believe this to be a realistic number, give or take a couple of %.

This is how I ended up with 10%. I asked several friends, men and women, if they walked into a crowded room, how many people of the opposite sex, would they find attractive? 1 in 10 was the common response. This was supported while at lunch with some colleges. I simply asked them “how many women in the restaurant did they find attractive within your age range?” the answer was about 10%, give or take a few. It was interesting to note that they didn’t all pick the same women, although there were some constants. Keep in mind that attractive doesn’t just mean a pretty face. To me it means everything visual, hair, eyes, clothes, figure, body language/attitude…etc. 

Try this experiment sometime. Is your number really that much greater than 10%?


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## john117

I've tried this experiment and I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd because few women over 50 that i know have remotely the physical appearance of my wife. Attitude wise many of the married ones are too shallow - not worldly enough for my preference  - or simply not interesting enough. The few available ones likely have emotional baggage the size of a tractor trailer that aren't my repertoire either. 

As for online dating... Not sure. Read the blog about "one year of online dating at age 50" and you'll see. I'd rather return to my village and marry a widow from my old days (surprising number of those available thanks to men smoking and the downwind impact of Chernobyl  )


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## Bananapeel

Decimated said:


> I still believe this to be a realistic number, give or take a couple of %.
> 
> This is how I ended up with 10%. I asked several friends, men and women, if they walked into a crowded room, how many people of the opposite sex, would they find attractive? 1 in 10 was the common response. This was supported while at lunch with some colleges. I simply asked them “how many women in the restaurant did they find attractive within your age range?” the answer was about 10%, give or take a few. It was interesting to note that they didn’t all pick the same women, although there were some constants. Keep in mind that attractive doesn’t just mean a pretty face. To me it means everything visual, hair, eyes, clothes, figure, body language/attitude…etc.
> 
> Try this experiment sometime. Is your number really that much greater than 10%?


If your numbers are that low you just change the environment that you are looking in. For instance if you want a physically fit woman join athletic groups, if you want a religious woman get involved with your church, if you have a fetish for Asian girls move to Japan, etc. I see lots of beautiful women every day in all different environments. I don't think there is a shortage at all. Although, when I again desire to have a relationship I'll probably just ask my female friends/acquaintances to set me up with their single friends. It's a more efficient search and the women have then been preselected to some extent to at least be available and attractive.


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## theworkwidow

I can't imagine trying to date again at 50+. I'm in my early 40s now and I already find the thought of starting again terrifying. If my husband and I do end up divorcing, I don't think I'd even think about dating again until my son was grown.

As far as not wanting to get involved with a person who was divorced because they were a cheater - I can't imagine getting involved with a betrayed spouse either - I would worry that they would have trust issues that would hurt their ability to get emotionally close to any future partner.


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## tech-novelist

john117 said:


> I've tried this experiment and I must be hanging out with the wrong crowd because few women over 50 that i know have remotely the physical appearance of my wife. Attitude wise many of the married ones are too shallow - not worldly enough for my preference  - or simply not interesting enough. The few available ones likely have emotional baggage the size of a tractor trailer that aren't my repertoire either.
> 
> As for online dating... Not sure. Read the blog about "one year of online dating at age 50" and you'll see. I'd rather return to my village and marry a widow from my old days (surprising number of those available thanks to men smoking and the downwind impact of Chernobyl  )


That should also make annuities much cheaper there. >


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## john117

Lolz 

I've caught up with most of my village childhood friends on Facebook. Gotta say that village women have held up far better than suburban moms, here or there.

Tempting 

In his last few years my father was an administrator for the village and told me about the Chernobyl related deaths. We had near zero cancer deaths for decades, as far as the records went, except smoking and liver (drinking). Then a few years after the event there was a noticeable spike, then relatively back to normal.


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## Steve1000

Decimated said:


> I still believe this to be a realistic number, give or take a couple of %.
> 
> This is how I ended up with 10%. I asked several friends, men and women, if they walked into a crowded room, how many people of the opposite sex, would they find attractive? 1 in 10 was the common response. This was supported while at lunch with some colleges. I simply asked them “how many women in the restaurant did they find attractive within your age range?” the answer was about 10%, give or take a few. It was interesting to note that they didn’t all pick the same women, although there were some constants. Keep in mind that attractive doesn’t just mean a pretty face. To me it means everything visual, hair, eyes, clothes, figure, body language/attitude…etc.
> 
> Try this experiment sometime. Is your number really that much greater than 10%?


If I walk into a crowded room, I'm not sure that there would be enough time to have an impression of people's body language and attitude. We might not have the same idea of what "find attractive" means. I think I can agree that only about 10% might be suitable to have a relationship with, but physical attraction would often be a much higher number, of course depending on the venue.


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## WasDecimated

Steve1000 said:


> If I walk into a crowded room, I'm not sure that there would be enough time to have an impression of people's body language and attitude. We might not have the same idea of what "find attractive" means. I think I can agree that only about 10% might be suitable to have a relationship with, but physical attraction would often be a much higher number, of course depending on the venue.


Hmm...Maybe I am too picky. I guess it's hard to say what is normal when I've never been anyone but me.


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## 2ntnuf

Decimated said:


> I still believe this to be a realistic number, give or take a couple of %.
> 
> This is how I ended up with 10%. I asked several friends, men and women, if they walked into a crowded room, how many people of the opposite sex, would they find attractive? 1 in 10 was the common response. This was supported while at lunch with some colleges. I simply asked them “how many women in the restaurant did they find attractive within your age range?” the answer was about 10%, give or take a few. It was interesting to note that they didn’t all pick the same women, although there were some constants. Keep in mind that attractive doesn’t just mean a pretty face. To me it means everything visual, hair, eyes, clothes, figure, body language/attitude…etc.
> 
> Try this experiment sometime. Is your number really that much greater than 10%?


Some of that is TAM-speak. You know, like all kids get a trophy for participating. Huh? I only got one trophy my whole life. I was an altar boy for several years and even served 6 am masses in the summer, during the week some years. I served weddings and funerals. I served Holy days of obligation. I served benediction and stations. I went in for the exposure of the sacrament. I went home with sore knees from kneeling so much. No kidding. Yeah, I deserved a trophy. "Faithful Service", is what was engraved on it. Now that I see that in font, it makes me think.

We can't help who we are attracted to. There is something going on there that does not seem logical. I bet it is ten or less percent. Well, less than ten for me. And, oddly enough, the woman does not have to be a classic beauty, just a beauty in my eyes. 

I don't know what life has in store for me. I've heard folks saying, "What did she do to him? I don't know what happened to him. He is not the same person I knew." I know I'm not.


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## 2ntnuf

theworkwidow said:


> I can't imagine trying to date again at 50+. I'm in my early 40s now and I already find the thought of starting again terrifying. If my husband and I do end up divorcing, I don't think I'd even think about dating again until my son was grown.
> 
> As far as not wanting to get involved with a person who was divorced because they were a cheater - I can't imagine getting involved with a betrayed spouse either - *I would worry that they would have trust issues that would hurt their ability to get emotionally close to any future partner.*


I agree with this. I do have huge trust issues. I am the exception, rather than the rule. I've never told my whole story on here. You wouldn't believe it possible. Most do not. 

Others, have had enough time and counseling/education to be alright. Never the same as before, but many times, that's actually better. 

If you are a faithful partner, wouldn't you want your spouse checking on you to see if someone is bothering you and dealing with it in a healthy manner? Seems like he is protecting you, as well as his interests. It could be comforting to know he has your back. Depends, I know.


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