# Encouraging Growth & Save a Marriage



## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm a guy, early 50's, who many would describe as "having it all": good wife, healthy kids, big income, successful business owner, etc. I should be the happiest guy on the planet but one issue continues to haunt me: our sex life.

Even there, I have no big reason to complain. While she used to be a refuser/gatekeeper when the kids were younger she's come to understand that sex for me is far more than a simple physical release (which she used to think). For me, sex is the primary means of my emotional connection with her. Perhaps it's a personality defect in me but if our sex life ain't great then my emotional connection to her begins to fade. Happy to report she almost never says no anymore. 

My challenge is our level of sexual compatibility and eagerness. I'm the far more "sexual" person who almost always has something bouncing around my head. It's just how I'm wired. Thing is, after being married 25 years I wonder if I'm losing my sexual attraction to her. I have no ED issues but during most sexual encounters with her, I have to fantasize HER having a loud orgasm (which isn't her, normally) in order for me to climax. There are times even that doesn't work and things go south quickly as she takes it personally if I fail to finish and she closes herself off for a day or two. I've seriously considered faking it to avoid that. I am on TRT if anyone's curious.

Imagine you could plot sexual desires and adventurousness on a linear scale. Mine would be very wide while hers would be much more narrow. I think there is some overlap between our two "scales" but not a ton. In her own words, she has no sexual fantasies. If gently pressed, the best she could come up with would be some unusual location, like on a deserted island. She's very satisfied with our status quo. Outside of the bedroom I've communicated a number of things I'd like her to think about and, when ready, come to me and say "let's do this". At the time she says sure! It never happens. It just has no significance to her at all.

It's important to say I know there's absolutely nothing wrong with her. She is who she is and I know I can't change that. When we married, I had only been with a few other women, one of whom was a sexual assault survivor, and understandably had ongoing major issues with sexual intimacy. Idiot that I was, I had a major KISA complex so we only had sex a handful of times over the course of several years, as I tried to help her heal. That relationship profoundly changed me. To this day I can't stomach any kind of rape scene in media and I'm also extremely sensitive to my wife's consent in whatever we do sexually, perhaps to an unhealthy degree. For example, if I suggest something sexually to my wife, and she responds with anything short of eagerness, I write it off, even tho I'd really like to try that (the thought of "pressing" myself sexually on a woman makes me physically ill). The frequent result is frustration on my part (mostly hidden to her).

What disappoints me most is the low value she ascribes to our sexuality, beyond having some kind of sexual relationship. Specifically, she simply doesn't think our sex life is worthy of much (any?) of her mindspace. Example: for our 20th anniversary, I took her on an extremely nice trip. Weeks ahead of time I gave her a very simple and fun assignment: with a smile, I asked her to think of one sexual act we had never done (there are many easy things in this category) and then on our anniversary trip I'd ask her what she'd come up with and then we'd do it. That way there'd be no pressure and she'd be in full control. When the time came, we're in this beautiful place, I asked her what she had thought of. Answer? Nothing. She hadn't given my request a minute of thought. I'll never forget that moment for the rest of my life. I was crushed on the inside, tho I did my best at hiding my profound disappointment, not wanting to ruin the trip over this. Only recently (years later) did I ask her about this, and she had no answer why she didn't think my request was worth any of her time. This still stings.

My wife is in every way a good person. She's faithful, a great mom, and almost never complains about anything. She does a magnificent job running our household. She works part-time just for fun and as a way to get out of the house. I take her out on "dinner dates" about 3 times per week. 

Another wrinkle: she had never tried marijuana before but was willing to try with me now that it's legal (I hadn't smoked anything since college many years ago). We had the perfect opportunity not long ago and so we did. After a few hits I suddenly remembered the cautions how today's weed is stronger than decades ago, and we were both seriously baked. Thing is, we then had the most intense sexual encounter of my life, by orders of magnitude! The wife who's almost always been a "one and done" orgasm girl, must have orgasmed strongly at least 20 times. After I did (mind-blowing) she pulled my hands in with a toy because she simply wasn't finished yet :surprise: :grin2: (me absolutely loving every second of that!!). When we (she!) finally were done, I started this joyous laughter - laughingly saying "WTF just happened??". It was the stuff of dreams. I was thinking - I KNEW it!! I knew there was a sexual beast in her and we just unleashed it! Alas, the next day, the first words out of her mouth were, "I don't remember much, but I definitely NEVER want to do that again". Again, crushed. I had just had the best experience of my life, and it sure as HELL seemed like she did as well, and then the balloon popped with those words. 

I can almost hear some of you saying: dude, either accept that's who she is and deal with it or leave her and move on. Leaving her would absolutely devastate the kids and devastate me financially. I do love her and do want us both to be happy together. The thing is, I am hung up with the possibility there's so much more in her sexual being if only I could coax it out. I've always envisioned marriage as a growth in getting to know your spouse on a deeper level continually, and that includes an ever-deepening sexual connection with a sense of adventurous exploration. For her, she knows that sex is important in a marriage but still doesn't think it warrants more thought than doing the same old routine. Again and again. Some might say if I'm bored then she sure is as well. I truly don't think so in our case. I know exactly how to push her buttons because what so stimulates me is seeing her pleasure. 

90+% of our fights over the course of our marriage have to do with sex. My conclusion is that we must really suck at communicating on this topic and now there's so many past hurts that it's almost as if the well has been poisoned. Any convo now is laced with mines and she inevitably brings stuff up from 15+ years ago. I can't/won't change her, but is it wrong of me to want her to increase the value of our sexual relationship because it means so much to me? Is there any way to encourage her to expand her horizons, actually give some mental time to sex? I haven't figured out if having a more sexually enthusiastic wife is a need or only a desire but I fear for our long term future if we can't at least get on a positive track. I've noticed my own attitude towards sex staring to deteriorate and left untreated I know that will have a destructive impact on the relationship. 

Thank you for reading this tome and in advance for your helpful ideas.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

How was she when you were dating, and few years of marriage? If she was more open then you got the ole bait and switch. 

My take; do not discuss sex with her from now on. It’s a libido killer for her. Get in shape. Join a club, any club will do. Get out of the house. Your wife has to realize, without you, life will be difficult.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> Thank you for reading this tome and in advance for your helpful ideas.



I have no advice for you and I've been there, in you shoes. I was frustrated about our sex life too, I was putting up with it for the sake of the marriage only to get the shock of my life when my wife turned the sex tap off after the kids left the house... so, be careful what you wish for... :wink2:


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

You know who your wife is and you also know that no matter what you do you wont be able to change her. So what it boils down to is if you are willing to spend the rest of your life the way things are. If everything else can make up for what you are missing sexually then put it all behind you and concentrate on what is good in your marriage. If it can't, then leave. Resentment will grow and destroy any marriage. Being unhappy is no way to spend your life and by extension she will be unhappy too.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

You have the perfect storm of issues here.

1. Fundamental sexual incompatibility
2. Wife's anxiety toward sex (alleviated by marijuana... and the anxiety/shame returned immediately after)
3. Your age. You are hitting your peak (thanks, in no small part, to testosterone... I'm also a TRT patient, so I can relate). Is she menopausal? If not yet, she will be soon... and you're in for a whole other ballgame.
4. You have the constant underlying negative tension of "my husband needs sex all the time", and that just hurts your cause. NEED is a giant libido-killer.

Your only hope is to increase your independence from her. If that results in her further pulling away and becoming less validating and less physical with you... then you have your answer. 

You are primed for an affair. Both of you (yes, even her). Be careful!

My book may be of interest to you: https://www.dadstartingover.com/the-dead-bedroom-fix


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> You have the perfect storm of issues here.
> 
> 1. Fundamental sexual incompatibility
> 2. Wife's anxiety toward sex (alleviated by marijuana... and the anxiety/shame returned immediately after)
> ...


Men in their 50's are not hitting their peak, that happens about 30 years before that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

OK you are probably not going to listen to me, but discontentment is deadly for a marriage. Thankfulness is vital, and from what you have said you have SO much to be thankful for, many would give so much to have what you have. 

You are craving the 5% that you think you must have, and risking the 95% that you do have. When ever that discontentment comes into your mind, think of all the good things about her, you children, the marriage, your home etc and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
A lot of marriage is about compromise anyway. 

As for the drugs, I agree with her, there is no way that I would risk damaging my mind or body with that stuff.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> You are craving the 5% that you think you must have, and risking the 95% that you do have. When ever that discontentment comes into your mind, think of all the good things about her, you children, the marriage, your home etc and stop feeling sorry for yourself.


It amazes me that some people think along the lines that the sexual aspect of a relationship is so little important. "5%"? Really? "that you think you must have" Yes, a healthy sexual relationship IS a "must have" in a marriage. And I don't think yearning for a more sexual contact with the person you love is "feeling sorry for yourself". 
So, should he feel "grateful" for whatever she does condescend to give him? That makes for an uneven marriage and that is not something that is good for EITHER partner


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana this advice reads like blowing the OP off in a "just deal with it" kind of subtextual way. Rug sweeping. 



Diana7 said:


> OK you are probably not going to listen to me, but discontentment is deadly for a marriage. Thankfulness is vital, and from what you have said you have SO much to be thankful for, many would give so much to have what you have.
> 
> You are craving the 5% that you think you must have, and risking the 95% that you do have. When ever that discontentment comes into your mind, think of all the good things about her, you children, the marriage, your home etc and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
> A lot of marriage is about compromise anyway.
> ...


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Diana this advice reads like blowing the OP off in a "just deal with it" kind of subtextual way. Rug sweeping.


it's because the OP has no other option... actually, he has one: destroying his marriage and family. Which is ok, if he is really unhappy.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Diana7 said:


> Men in their 50's are not hitting their peak, that happens about 30 years before that.


Sorry, Diana... no. If a man plays his cards right (and with pharmaceutical help, as I pointed out), he CAN be in great shape, look good, have a maturity and wisdom that only comes with age, have his finances in order, etc. The world is his oyster.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

^^^^
You’re on point Dad.
A men’s value lies in his ability to provide, protect and give guidance. Therefore his value increases with age. 

A woman’s value lies in her beauty, fertility and sex appeal. Therefore her value decreases with age 

Gentlemen you are the prize, act as such


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

What is your current frequency like? Although the sex might not rise to the level to fully meet your needs, how accommodating do you feel she is to having sex?

From many stories on the board, I think the current situation is about as good as it will get. It might get a little better, but I don't think it's likely that she becomes all that more passionate about sex. It sounds like it's not that important to her, but she still makes an effort for your sake. That seems to be most common version of "success" in these kinds of situations. 

You may need to make a decision about what is more important to you: a passionate and fulling sex life, or the relationship you currently have. I have no doubt that you could meet someone who would give you everything you want sexually, but there's no guarantee about the rest of the relationship. There will be exes, step-kids, and all kind of other relationship differences to deal with. And from the dating threads, it seems like just finding someone worthy of a relationship is an adventure itself. If you want to keep your current relationship, you will likely need to think a lot about what a compatible solution will be given your needs and who she is.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

emcsquared said:


> I am hung up with the possibility there's so much more in her sexual being if only I could coax it out. .


Those are the exact thoughts and words of every single man that finds himself in your position and there are PLENTY men in your position.


Here are the very simple facts that you already know: Your wife isn't into sex like you are and NEVER will be.....EVER.

I'm not in your position but I can surely understand what that frustration feels like. My wife has different "sexual levels" as well. I think it is just how woman are wired.

So what can you do about it ???? The answer is easy ....you can think about how much you like shopping for shoes. WAIT .....what did I say? Yes all you have to do is
think about how much you like shopping for shoes. You see its like this: Your wife is as interested in thinking about sex...as much as you are in thinking about shopping for shoes.
If you had told her to think about a pair of shoes she wanted and you would get it for her on that trip ..... she would have had those shoes picked out. You can insert clothes if it 
makes you feel better. 

How much time do you spend thinking of shoe shopping: The answer is ZERO. Which is her answer for sex. Just because she likes shoe shopping doesn't mean your 
going to have it in YOUR head all day.

Does it suck? Sure it does. But that is why it isn't in her mind ..... it is just not important.

I'm not going to bother with all the books you can read of female attraction bio-mechanics and communication...blah blah blah.....

I'm also not going to point the finger at your wife and say bait and switch or none of that other mess .......


THE REAL SOLUTION LIES WITHIN HOW VASTLY IMPORTANT IS THIS TO YOU AND WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO DO ABOUT IT?

It sounds like your life is too wrapped up in other ways to split ..... and lets be honest ...SHE KNOWS IT !!!!!


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> ^^^^
> You’re on point Dad.
> A men’s value lies in his ability to provide, protect and give guidance. Therefore his value increases with age.
> 
> ...



^^^^ great point! I would also add the cost of a man exercising his agency goes up. His only option is to leave by which the cost increases exponentially over time. If it’s bad enough, you’re gotta have to be prepared to shoot the hostage but I’m not advocating that.

I like the shoe analogy earlier but I think food is a also a analogy. She’s a foodie and you’re fine with frozen pizza and a beer on Saturday night. She wants to dress up, go out, enjoy the ambiance.” You’d be like “what’s the point of going out? Why can’t you be happy with what we have at home? You don’t need to go out... you’re obsessed with food. I like pizza and in the end it goes in your stomach... done. Why get dressed up and spend $150 when we can stay home watch Netflix? Why does food have to be so fancy? You don’t NEED fancy restaurant food. That’s all you and your friends talk about is going out to eat. It’s like you’re obsessed. Is what we have at home not good enough for you?”

Some people don’t think working full-time for a great salary is all that either and losing any interest in work would be applicable here too. But that would be waaaay too passive-aggressive.

To borrow a phrase from Ester Perel, there is no solution.... but a dichotomy to be managed. 

I’m in HRT and can relate. Women are and can be highly sexual but it really is a low priority unless their hormones dictate or using it to get something they want. Just had a discussion of the sexual feedback loop with my wife. She likes sex, says she feels very connected but I have a psychological issue because I don’t feel connected. I told her that she hates to talk about sex so I don’t and she is choosing not to reflect that “connection” back at me in a way I can understand. So what am I supposed to think? Quiet after that. 

Guys just want to have their wives express passion, love and a desire to please them and see them enjoying themselves. There’s 1) she doesn’t enjoy it and doing it anyway 2) she enjoys it and it’s fine 3) she is turned on by you enjoying it. It’s not rocket science. Your wife giving you an awkward hand job during foreplay with her eyes closed is different than had she looked directly into your eyes, grabbed your junk and in a sexy voice said “let’s see how hard I can make you come” or “mmm I love watching your face when you come.” It’s disheartening to realize she’s probably wondering where the towel is, how long this will take and what she needs to get a Target.

Honestly, if she doesn’t remember I don’t see an upside to bringing this up... unless you want her to dump on you for not being able to drop sex.” 

A man’s esteem is tied to how a partner reacts to you in bed just how it is. Women can tell a guy he needs to get over it and he’s insecure or a pervert. But a man can’t tell a women she just needs to quit feeling insecure because of all the other women she sees in TV and magazines. 

You never cultivate desire by complaining there is none. You’ve said your peace. You really just have to take what you can get and take care of yourself the rest of time. I think if you just stopped pursuing it, that might change things. You could make a point by stopping in the middle and saying it’s not doing anything for you but if she needs to be finished off manually off you can do that.

Go hit the gym, hang with your buds and become more desirable. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

dadstartingover said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> > Men in their 50's are not hitting their peak, that happens about 30 years before that.
> ...


I would say mid-thirties is the high point. You are entering your peak earning years, you've grown wiser in dealing with women, your body is still relatively young and your sex drive is still fairly high.

I would say about mid-twenties for women. Men don't really value earning potential in women and beauty/fertility is highest in those years.

I agree with OP that men bond with women through sex and women don't really understand that. Some use it as a weapon to use against those men and it usually ends badly for all.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

dadstartingover said:


> Sorry, Diana... no. If a man plays his cards right (and with pharmaceutical help, as I pointed out), he CAN be in great shape, look good, have a maturity and wisdom that only comes with age, have his finances in order, etc. The world is his oyster.


Not their sexual peak, which is what it appeared you were referring to.

I agree with Diana, mostly. I think the problem is discontent. Sure sex is important, but you are getting sex and as much as you ask for. The problem is lack of novelty. You are not satisfied with your wife's lovemaking style, which appears to be based on her personality.

Have you considered making an appointment with a sex therapist and tell your wife that you need her to come with you, then getting the input of the therapist on what can be done to bring you two into better alignment? I think if you approach her by letting her know that you want both of you to be on the same page and think this will help, she may be willing to go, as long as it's not all about trying to get her to change, but for you to learn to be more compatible with her as well.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> ^^^^
> You’re on point Dad.
> A men’s value lies in his ability to provide, protect and give guidance. Therefore his value increases with age.
> 
> ...


That's where our value lies? Wow. What a sick, sexist attitude. It's downright gross.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

emcsquared said:


> I can't/won't change her, but is it wrong of me to want her to increase the value of our sexual relationship because it means so much to me? Is there any way to encourage her to expand her horizons, actually give some mental time to sex? I haven't figured out if having a more sexually enthusiastic wife is a need or only a desire but I fear for our long term future if we can't at least get on a positive track.


I could have written this post. I'm right there with you wanting a wife who was as enthusiastic about sex as I am. I went through all the stuff that you are thinking and trying for years (married for 46 years) and I'm just now starting to understand what I have to do to keep our sex life alive.

First of all, if you are watching porn, stop it immediately. That stuff will rewire your brain to make you believe that all women want and do the stuff that is portrayed in those films. It's not reality...not by a long shot. So get that stuff out of your head. Second, I think you have a good understanding of your wife's personality. You will not change that so start working with it. In my case, I had to come to the place where I understood that I was going to have to be in charge of our sex life. I have a responsive desire wife and it sounds like you do as well. So you have to take a leadership role and take her where you want to go. Don't ask her to think of things to do. That will be your job. And be reasonable. I mean, you shouldn’t go pushing through hard limits, things they’re not ready for yet, feel morally opposed to (like drugs) or acts that are immoral. But, that still leaves a lot of activities for most people.

Also understand that she is not broken so you have nothing to fix. She's just different. So you have to adjust and be okay with being the initiator. I wanted my wife to think about sex more as well. Sexting is one thing that worked for me. Kept the wife thinking about sex and she was more enthusiastic about it when I got home. 

Good luck to you sir. It takes some work but it's worth it!


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Someone on this site said it best. “I didn’t buy the house because of the bathroom, but I’ll be mad if you take it away from me”. 

I don’t like going to work everyday but I do it because it the right thing to do for my family. Women should have the same mentality when it comes to intimacy.

The stats back me up. Happy Spouse happy House.

Ladies keep the belly full and the balls empty. It’s not that hard. Don’t overthink the Room on this one.

My wife knows the drill. If she doesn’t show me intimacy (note, I did not say sex) on a consistent basis I’ll find someone who will. 

And before you judge. I provide, I protect, and I am present. By 50 I’ll be retired, taking my wife to whatever locations she desires. 

She treats me well, and I do my part.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> Someone on this site said it best. “I didn’t buy the house because of the bathroom, but I’ll be mad if you take it away from me”.
> 
> I don’t like going to work everyday but I do it because it the right thing to do for my family. Women should have the same mentality when it comes to intimacy.
> 
> ...


That's all nice and sweet for you and your wife but it has nothing to do with the OP or his wife. He's said he and his wife have as much sex as he wants. His issue is that he wants her to enjoy sex the way he enjoys sex. That's unreasonable. She's allowed to enjoy it at her speed. He's allowed to enjoy it at his. 

And I'd love it if the "full belly, empty balls" saying was true. I'd probably still be married if that was the case.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Lila said:


> BigbadBootyDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Someone on this site said it best. “I didn’t buy the house because of the bathroom, but I’ll be mad if you take it away from me”.
> ...


If he’s getting as much booty as he wants, then yes he needs to stop complaining. 

In regards to your situation, I assume there were red flags galore. 

90% of guys will follow the “full belly, empty sack” rule. The other 10% are psychos who lack empathy. But I try not to focus on the outliers.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> ]
> 
> If he’s getting as much booty as he wants, then yes he needs to stop complaining.
> 
> ...


24 years together and 19 married. The only red flag was a very high sense of pride so no, no red flags galore. 

It sure would make life really easy on women if that were the case. All we'd need to teach our daughters is "open your legs and act like porn stars".


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Lila said:


> BigbadBootyDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > ]
> ...


You got it. I have a daughter, and I don’t have a problem with telling her the quote. But, and here’s a big but, the guy has to be a Mans Man and fill all the requirements. 
Check the link. The 5 As every guy has to pass before even thinking about courting a woman (let alone marriage). 
https://youtu.be/VaImIgDiDLA

I expect my wife to be a porn star with me, and me alone.


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> You got it. I have a daughter, and I don’t have a problem with telling her the quote. But, and here’s a big but, the guy has to be a Mans Man and fill all the requirements.
> Check the link. The 5 As every guy has to pass before even thinking about courting a woman (let alone marriage).
> https://youtu.be/VaImIgDiDLA
> 
> I expect my wife to be a porn star with me, and me alone.


I started another thread to discuss "the rule". I encourage you to participate there and express your opinions on the matter.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> How was she when you were dating, and few years of marriage? If she was more open then you got the ole bait and switch.


She was definitely more enthusiastic about sex back then but she was early twenties when we met and we didn’t live together. NRE and all that. I don’t feel “bait & switched” but I do feel her priorities changed, as I suppose most people do over 25+ years.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> I was putting up with it for the sake of the marriage only to get the shock of my life when my wife turned the sex tap off after the kids left the house...


I sincerely don’t think she’d do that. She knows that’d be a dealbreaker for me.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

"For example, if I suggest something sexually to my wife, *and she responds with anything short of eagerness, I write it off,* even tho I'd really like to try that (the thought of "pressing" myself sexually on a woman makes me physically ill). The frequent result is frustration on my part (mostly hidden to her)."

Wrong move. What message do you think this sends? It tells her that you really weren't all that interested. What you want to do is say "Let's think about this because I'm really interested. What about it turns you off?" And, then discuss it. It also wouldn't hurt if you remind your wife that you're not 20 anymore when even barnyard critters looked appealing. You need a little more excitement to keep the equipment working. You also need to be desired and that is her department.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> You are primed for an affair. Both of you (yes, even her). Be careful!


Well, “fortunately” while I’m perfectly average looking, I’ve never been one whom women throw themselves at. And I always wear my wedding ring which women always seem to respect. As for her, that would be more inconceivable than a Matrix-like moment when Neo must swallow that his entire existence has been a computer simulation lol


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Blondilocks said:


> "For example, if I suggest something sexually to my wife, *and she responds with anything short of eagerness, I write it off,* even tho I'd really like to try that (the thought of "pressing" myself sexually on a woman makes me physically ill). The frequent result is frustration on my part (mostly hidden to her)."
> 
> Wrong move. What message do you think this sends? It tells her that you really weren't all that interested. What you want to do is say "Let's think about this because I'm really interested. What about it turns you off?" And, then discuss it. It also wouldn't hurt if you remind your wife that you're not 20 anymore *when even barnyard critters looked appealing*. You need a little more excitement to keep the equipment working. You also need to be desired and that is her department.


You had to mention barnyard animals!

:laugh:


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> OK you are probably not going to listen to me, but discontentment is deadly for a marriage. Thankfulness is vital, and from what you have said you have SO much to be thankful for, many would give so much to have what you have.
> 
> You are craving the 5% that you think you must have, and risking the 95% that you do have. When ever that discontentment comes into your mind, think of all the good things about her, you children, the marriage, your home etc and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
> A lot of marriage is about compromise anyway.
> ...


Actually, I do agree that discontentment can/will kill a marriage. That’s why I’m here. I want to end that.

Where I firmly disagree with you is where our sex life is only 5% of the marriage. In fact, sex is the ONE THING that’s supposed to differentiate marriage from all other relationships. I can have everything in relationships with others, including emotional intimacy, but sex is what’s ideally reserved for marriage. Don’t you affirm that?

As for the drugs, we didn’t set out to become “intoxicated”. We did the equivalent of drinking more wine than we could handle. It happens. My point in relaying that story was to show why I think there’s more of a sexual beast within her than she’s letting on.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

emcsquared said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> > OK you are probably not going to listen to me, but discontentment is deadly for a marriage. Thankfulness is vital, and from what you have said you have SO much to be thankful for, many would give so much to have what you have.
> ...


Are you saying you are getting starfish sex and want bronco sex? Or are you saying you want her to initiate more or get more excited about it when you make your move?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

wilson said:


> What is your current frequency like? Although the sex might not rise to the level to fully meet your needs, how accommodating do you feel she is to having sex?


We’re at 2-3 times per week. All of it my initiation. I am NOT lacking in a “physical need” capacity. I’m looking for more enthusiasm, excitement, adventurousness, activeness. I can’t help but wonder if more of that is within her, but restrained for reasons I can’t understand.



wilson said:


> From many stories on the board, I think the current situation is about as good as it will get. It might get a little better, but I don't think it's likely that she becomes all that more passionate about sex. It sounds like it's not that important to her, but she still makes an effort for your sake. That seems to be most common version of "success" in these kinds of situations.
> 
> You may need to make a decision about what is more important to you: a passionate and fulling sex life, or the relationship you currently have. I have no doubt that you could meet someone who would give you everything you want sexually, but there's no guarantee about the rest of the relationship. There will be exes, step-kids, and all kind of other relationship differences to deal with. And from the dating threads, it seems like just finding someone worthy of a relationship is an adventure itself. If you want to keep your current relationship, you will likely need to think a lot about what a compatible solution will be given your needs and who she is.


I hate the binary path here. Could there not be a third way? Perhaps I’m greedy, wanting the same wife, the same life, AND a more exciting sex life. I’m not willing to throw in the towel just yet (although there have been days where I’ve sworn to myself that I’m done trying).


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

aaarghdub said:


> You never cultivate desire by complaining there is none. You’ve said your peace. You really just have to take what you can get and take care of yourself the rest of time. I think if you just stopped pursuing it, that might change things. You could make a point by stopping in the middle and saying it’s not doing anything for you but if she needs to be finished off manually off you can do that.


I learned that the hard way. I’ve been reading TAM a while and I now know it’s repulsive to women if a man in any way comes across as needy. I don’t complain at all to her about our sex life. On occasion, maybe when I’m feeling masochistic I’ll try to bring up a constructive conversation outside the bedroom. Almost never goes well when the topic is sex. She knows I’d like more but feels helpless and so she shuts down or gets angry. And I think I understand why - to her everything’s “great”. To her, me bringing up a desire to do more only means “everything now must be wrong”. Ugh.

I did do exactly that what you suggested - stopped in the middle and said those exact words. Didn’t pout, didn’t sulk. You’d think I’d murdered a puppy in front of her. That fight lasted days.



aaarghdub said:


> Go hit the gym, hang with your buds and become more desirable.


Definitely agree with that. Now just need to find the time...


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## Lila (May 30, 2014)

@emcsquared why did you start on the TRT? Was it a choice or were you medically diagnosed with low testosterone. 

Did your start noticing your wife's sexual inadequacies more after you went on the TRT?


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> As for the drugs, we didn’t set out to become “intoxicated”. We did the equivalent of drinking more wine than we could handle. It happens. My point in relaying that story was to show why I think there’s more of a sexual beast within her than she’s letting on.


First of all, marijuana is known to enhance sexual pleasure, so she may not be able to have such an intense experience without it. 

I think the response that your wife had scared her for some reason. Do you think she was embarrassed by her response?





emcsquared said:


> I hate the binary path here. Could there not be a third way? Perhaps I’m greedy, wanting the same wife, the same life, AND a more exciting sex life. I’m not willing to throw in the towel just yet (although there have been days where I’ve sworn to myself that I’m done trying).


If you are trying to change your wife, that is probably a pointless endeavor. Like someone else mentioned, if she wanted you to get excited about shoe shopping, that would probably be pointless as well. Some people don't have a high sex drive and are not that into sex. That doesn't mean she's not into you or that she doesn't care about you. I think you may be taking this too personally when it's not you she isn't into. It's just that she doesn't place a high value on sex. She is available to you when you want sex, which gives me the impression that she's really into you. She'd have to be in order to have sex whenever you want and not resist or complain. Instead she happily goes along with what you like without complaint.

I understand that you want your wife to enjoy sex as much as you do and that you want some different things, but I don't think it's something you want to ruin your marriage over. Your wife loves you and supports you.

I think it would be helpful for you to be thankful for your wife and to not take it personally that she isn't creative in bed. If you want something different, ask her or take the initiative and try it out. See if she enjoys it, but don't expect her to suddenly become more creative in that area. It sounds like she's perfectly happy with you and your sex life the way it is and may be afraid, embarrassed, just plain disinterested to try anything new on her own.

When you wife told you her one and only fantasy, what did you do to fulfill it for her?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Have you considered making an appointment with a sex therapist and tell your wife that you need her to come with you, then getting the input of the therapist on what can be done to bring you two into better alignment? I think if you approach her by letting her know that you want both of you to be on the same page and think this will help, she may be willing to go, as long as it's not all about trying to get her to change, but for you to learn to be more compatible with her as well.


I have considered this. Haven’t been able to find what appears to be a decent sex therapist anywhere near me. And she has in fact yelled at me “you need help!” in a recent argument so yes, she’d come, with the clear understanding that it’s me who’s “broken” and needs to be fixed.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> I have considered this. Haven’t been able to find what appears to be a decent sex therapist anywhere near me. And she has in fact yelled at me “you need help!” in a recent argument so yes, she’d come, with the clear understanding that it’s me who’s “broken” and needs to be fixed.


Maybe a marriage counselor could help you both come to unity in this area. Taking a collaborative approach is the most likely way to resolve this for both of you.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

emcsquared said:


> Well, “fortunately” while I’m perfectly average looking, I’ve never been one whom women throw themselves at. And I always wear my wedding ring which women always seem to respect. As for her, that would be more inconceivable than a Matrix-like moment when Neo must swallow that his entire existence has been a computer simulation lol


Oh, you sweet, innocent summer child...


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> emcsquared said:
> 
> 
> > Well, “fortunately” while I’m perfectly average looking, I’ve never been one whom women throw themselves at. And I always wear my wedding ring which women always seem to respect. As for her, that would be more inconceivable than a Matrix-like moment when Neo must swallow that his entire existence has been a computer simulation lol
> ...


Right?? I was thinking the same thing


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> We’re at 2-3 times per week. All of it my initiation. I am NOT lacking in a “physical need” capacity. I’m looking for more enthusiasm, excitement, adventurousness, activeness. I can’t help but wonder if more of that is within her, but restrained for reasons I can’t understand.


At 2-3x/week, you're probably already at the high end of the typical range for a 25-year relationship with kids. Keep in mind what you're trying to achieve is not very typical unless the relationship has been passionate all along. It's like you have the goose who lays golden eggs, but you're frustrated because the eggs aren't big enough.



> I hate the binary path here. Could there not be a third way? Perhaps I’m greedy, wanting the same wife, the same life, AND a more exciting sex life. I’m not willing to throw in the towel just yet (although there have been days where I’ve sworn to myself that I’m done trying).


One thing that can likely be achieved is to have sex with more emotional connection. She may not be more passionate, but she could find the sex more enjoyable and fulfilling. You can help a lot by being more emotionally engaged on a regular basis. Like, when she talks to you, really listen and want to be there like you did at the start of the relationship. But don't do it as a manipulation tactic to get more sex. Do it because you love her and want her to be happy.

I also can't help wondering if the TRT is amping up your sex drive and making you more single-focused. Why are you on that? If you had to choose between staying on TRT or your marriage, which would you pick?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

dadstartingover said:


> Sorry, Diana... no. If a man plays his cards right (and with pharmaceutical help, as I pointed out), he CAN be in great shape, look good, have a maturity and wisdom that only comes with age, have his finances in order, etc. The world is his oyster.


Sorry I thought you meant sexual peak. 

I guess what you say applies to us all.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> We’re at 2-3 times per week. All of it my initiation. I am NOT lacking in a “physical need” capacity. I’m looking for more enthusiasm, excitement, adventurousness, activeness. I can’t help but wonder if more of that is within her, but restrained for reasons I can’t understand.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate the binary path here. Could there not be a third way? Perhaps I’m greedy, wanting the same wife, the same life, AND a more exciting sex life. I’m not willing to throw in the towel just yet (although there have been days where I’ve sworn to myself that I’m done trying).


I have noticed that some men think that their wives must be like they are sexually and seem surprised when they aren't. 

Why can't she be happy with your 2-3 times a week(which is quite a lot for a couple in their 50's BTW) and have to have some sort of hidden restrained sexuality? She is not you and you are not her. The story about the weekend away and wanting her to think of one thing that you havent done sexually that you can try on that weekend is a case in point. Not a good idea. 

As for the 5%, I was thinking of the 5% as being a percentage of all the good things that you have in your life. Your wife, marriage, home, children, family, friends etc etc. Yes and a wife who is more than happy to have frequent regular sex with you. 

The way that you stop being discontent is to stop letting your mind dwell on these things you think you lack, and think instead of the countless good things that you enjoy. Its a discipline. Be thankful. 

Also I have no idea if you are porn user, but if you are then stop. Porn gives men a totally unrealistic idea of what women do and think and want, its acting.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

I love my husband. I’m super sexually attracted to him. We have a great sex life, I am very satisfied. The only problem is... it’s not enough for him. He is always pushing me, and wanting more and different. Sometimes I think he wants me to put on a fake performance for him. Why can’t I be enough the way I am? Sometimes he loses his erection and doesn’t finish, and all I can think about is I am not enough. 

-your wife


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Diceplayer said:


> First of all, if you are watching porn, stop it immediately. That stuff will rewire your brain to make you believe that all women want and do the stuff that is portrayed in those films. It's not reality...not by a long shot. So get that stuff out of your head.


I agree with you. Every once in a while I had peeked at some porn just to try and get my engine running so that I could then go to my wife. While I know 90%+ of the women in there are faking it for money, I also know full well there really are women who enjoy sex that much and are vocal, active, and get into becoming ever better at pleasing their partner. I quit looking because THAT became too painful, since I know that’s not my wife, and most likely, never will be. Isn’t that crazy? I think the *attitude* portrayed in porn is WAY more sexy than fake boobs etc. Yes, I know most of it is fake, but damn it’s sexy as hell. I’m not saying I expect my wife to act like a porn star but just that she show some enthusiasm!



Diceplayer said:


> Second, I think you have a good understanding of your wife's personality. You will not change that so start working with it. In my case, I had to come to the place where I understood that I was going to have to be in charge of our sex life. I have a responsive desire wife and it sounds like you do as well. So you have to take a leadership role and take her where you want to go. Don't ask her to think of things to do. That will be your job. And be reasonable. I mean, you shouldn’t go pushing through hard limits, things they’re not ready for yet, feel morally opposed to (like drugs) or acts that are immoral. But, that still leaves a lot of activities for most people.


Right. I’m not asking her for threesomes or anything like that. It’s really more about the attitude than the specific acts. Short of bringing other people in, we both think everything’s morally fine.



Diceplayer said:


> Also understand that she is not broken so you have nothing to fix. She's just different. So you have to adjust and be okay with being the initiator. I wanted my wife to think about sex more as well. Sexting is one thing that worked for me. Kept the wife thinking about sex and she was more enthusiastic about it when I got home.


As I said before, I fully understand she’s not broken. I’m looking to nurture and grow what just may be already there. Your idea to proactively sext is a good one.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I love my husband. I’m super sexually attracted to him. We have a great sex life, I am very satisfied. The only problem is... it’s not enough for him. He is always pushing me, and wanting more and different. Sometimes I think he wants me to put on a fake performance for him. Why can’t I be enough the way I am? Sometimes he loses his erection and doesn’t finish, and all I can think about is I am not enough.
> 
> -your wife


Unfortunately and as hard as I may be to accept, she may not be. And that is NOT her fault. This isn't about her, it's about him. She has already expressed what her limits are and what she is comfortable with. He has to make the decision whether or not he can live with it. This is why it is so important to make sure that you are sexually compatible with someone before you enter a LTR.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Are you saying you are getting starfish sex and want bronco sex? Or are you saying you want her to initiate more or get more excited about it when you make your move?


She’s not full starfish but leans that way. I would like her to get more excited when I make my move. I would love for her to initiate more but I know that won’t happen since she’s very responsive desire.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Lila said:


> @emcsquared why did you start on the TRT? Was it a choice or were you medically diagnosed with low testosterone.


At 45 I was medically diagnosed with ridiculously low T. Like that of an 80+ yr old. 



Lila said:


> Did your start noticing your wife's sexual inadequacies more after you went on the TRT?


Not at all. And I don’t like the term “inadequacies”. I just want to bring something out of her that I suspect is in her.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> First of all, marijuana is known to enhance sexual pleasure, so she may not be able to have such an intense experience without it.


I have heard that and experienced it myself. For me, it was awesome! For her? “Never again” 



Cynthia said:


> I think the response that your wife had scared her for some reason. Do you think she was embarrassed by her response?


If she was she didn’t communicate that to me. I thought it was more that she had never been high before and she was overwhelmed. I get that part, but what saddens me was that there’s no denying she enjoyed herself 1000x more than I’d ever seen. What I don’t understand is why wouldn’t she, at least in some degree, want to have fun like that again?






Cynthia said:


> If you are trying to change your wife, that is probably a pointless endeavor.


Believe me, I know this 



Cynthia said:


> Like someone else mentioned, if she wanted you to get excited about shoe shopping, that would probably be pointless as well. Some people don't have a high sex drive and are not that into sex. That doesn't mean she's not into you or that she doesn't care about you. I think you may be taking this too personally when it's not you she isn't into. It's just that she doesn't place a high value on sex. She is available to you when you want sex, which gives me the impression that she's really into you. She'd have to be in order to have sex whenever you want and not resist or complain. Instead she happily goes along with what you like without complaint.


That’s helpful and appreciated coming from a woman’s perspective. Thank you.



Cynthia said:


> I understand that you want your wife to enjoy sex as much as you do and that you want some different things, but I don't think it's something you want to ruin your marriage over. Your wife loves you and supports you.
> 
> I think it would be helpful for you to be thankful for your wife and to not take it personally that she isn't creative in bed. If you want something different, ask her or take the initiative and try it out. See if she enjoys it, but don't expect her to suddenly become more creative in that area.


Tried that. That’s just not her comfort zone. I’ve tried to encourage her to be vocal during sex, dirty talk, etc. The most she could do was a whisper but A for effort I guess?



Cynthia said:


> It sounds like she's perfectly happy with you and your sex life the way it is and may be afraid, embarrassed, just plain disinterested to try anything new on her own.
> 
> When you wife told you her one and only fantasy, what did you do to fulfill it for her?


I’ve known that about her for some time and so I always look for unusual locations where she feels 100% safe and do that for her. She digs it. 

What about this fact? She has never once asked me what my fantasies are. Is that because she just doesn’t care? Or is she fearful what I might say?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> Oh, you sweet, innocent summer child...


So I’m a child because women don’t come on to me? Not following....


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

wilson said:


> At 2-3x/week, you're probably already at the high end of the typical range for a 25-year relationship with kids. Keep in mind what you're trying to achieve is not very typical unless the relationship has been passionate all along. It's like you have the goose who lays golden eggs, but you're frustrated because the eggs aren't big enough.


I truly value what I have. It’s great. Is it so wrong to aspire to even greater? Yes, of course, not at the cost of driving her insane. Not gunna do that.





wilson said:


> One thing that can likely be achieved is to have sex with more emotional connection. She may not be more passionate, but she could find the sex more enjoyable and fulfilling. You can help a lot by being more emotionally engaged on a regular basis. Like, when she talks to you, really listen and want to be there like you did at the start of the relationship. But don't do it as a manipulation tactic to get more sex. Do it because you love her and want her to be happy.


I dare say I’m pretty good at that. She enjoys dumping all the cares of the day, kids, etc. on me and I listen. We’re in this together.



wilson said:


> I also can't help wondering if the TRT is amping up your sex drive and making you more single-focused. Why are you on that? If you had to choose between staying on TRT or your marriage, which would you pick?


Even my doc, who’s known to be resistant to starting TRT insisted I start due to the now-proven ill health effects of very low T. Believe it or not, I am NOT a horn dog! In fact, my drive is all but crashing now. My T has merely been restored to what it should be for my age - it’s not in the thousands.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> What about this fact? She has never once asked me what my fantasies are. Is that because she just doesn’t care? Or is she fearful what I might say?


Based on what you've told us about her, I don't think she doesn't care about what you think or feel. It seems it's more that her mind doesn't go there, so she doesn't consider it anything to ask about. 

Is your wife a naturally reserved person or is she normally an emotionally expressive person?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> I love my husband. I’m super sexually attracted to him. We have a great sex life, I am very satisfied. The only problem is... it’s not enough for him. He is always pushing me, and wanting more and different. Sometimes I think he wants me to put on a fake performance for him. Why can’t I be enough the way I am? Sometimes he loses his erection and doesn’t finish, and all I can think about is I am not enough.
> 
> -your wife


I don’t push her. I very occasionally bring up exploring & “more”. Would it be fair to summarize your sentiment this way: my desire for enriching our sex life with more variety & enthusiasm is a total rejection of my wife?


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

emcsquared said:


> I don’t push her. I very occasionally bring up exploring & “more”. Would it be fair to summarize your sentiment this way: my desire for enriching our sex life with more variety & enthusiasm is a total rejection of my wife?




If I put myself in your wife’s shoes I would feel like nothing I do is ever good enough. It’s also a crappy feeling when your man can’t finish. 
You want more, she is happy with what she has. The question is do you NEED more?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Is your wife a naturally reserved person or is she normally an emotionally expressive person?


By her own admission, she’s changed somewhat. When we built a house she wanted the neighborhood to socialize with other moms. I wanted acreage. For her well being, we did the neighborhood. Now she wishes we had done the acreage. She’s not reserved. She’s right smack in the middle of the introvert/extrovert scale. It’s a stressful season with the kids right now so there’s no problem with her expressing her anger with them (or me on occasion) lol


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Girl_power said:


> If I put myself in your wife’s shoes I would feel like nothing I do is ever good enough. It’s also a crappy feeling when your man can’t finish.
> You want more, she is happy with what she has. The question is do you NEED more?


The not finishing is a medical/hormonal issue. The TRT does NOT make me a horn-dog and my entire body feels completely different from when I was younger. It sucks. I have zero issues with blood flow so erections are no problem. It’s the other part where I feel more numb due to who-knows-what hormonal imbalance. Or is it all in the brain? I just don’t know.

I’m sure that’s part of what’s driving me for more enthusiasm & excitement in our sex life. She’s very hurt if I can’t finish and I don’t want to hurt her. I’ve told her repeatedly it’s 90% a medical issue, but, as you have stated, many women don’t react well to that.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

emcsquared said:


> The not finishing is a medical/hormonal issue. The TRT does NOT make me a horn-dog and my entire body feels completely different from when I was younger. It sucks. I have zero issues with blood flow so erections are no problem. It’s the other part where I feel more numb due to who-knows-what hormonal imbalance. Or is it all in the brain? I just don’t know.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m sure that’s part of what’s driving me for more enthusiasm & excitement in our sex life. She’s very hurt if I can’t finish and I don’t want to hurt her. I’ve told her repeatedly it’s 90% a medical issue, but, as you have stated, many women don’t react well to that.




I totally understand. But when it happens every women is going to think it’s her. You even said you may have lost attraction for her and you need her to up the ante so you can finish.
I’m a medical person, I get how the penis works. But when it happens to me, it still feels crappy. When you also add that your trying to encourage her to be more enthusiastic, and to try new things...of course she is going to feel bad about herself and not good enough. Even if that’s not true it’it’s inevitable


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

Just in case it wasn’t clear in my other post I do not believe your wife is manipulating the situation or that she doesn’t care “about you”. 

I have however found a solution to your problem: pot brownies.


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## BlindedByTheLight (Oct 7, 2019)

emcsquared said:


> I'm a guy, early 50's, who many would describe as "having it all": good wife, healthy kids, big income, successful business owner, etc. I should be the happiest guy on the planet but one issue continues to haunt me: our sex life.
> 
> Even there, I have no big reason to complain. While she used to be a refuser/gatekeeper when the kids were younger she's come to understand that sex for me is far more than a simple physical release (which she used to think). For me, sex is the primary means of my emotional connection with her. Perhaps it's a personality defect in me but if our sex life ain't great then my emotional connection to her begins to fade. Happy to report she almost never says no anymore.
> 
> ...


This is just my opinion about the OP and I have to admit that I’ve not read every response!!

I think OP’s point has been missed in what he was originally asking advice about!!

If I’m correct, in my understanding, the OP wants opinions on fixing things!!
To me, it seems he loves his wife and is desperate to find solutions in making her understand how important the sex/physical aspect of their relationship is to him!!!

Saying you’ve been coned, tricked, switched or played doesn’t help!!

Even if that’s true and regardless of his actions or efforts, he can come those conclusions on his own!!!

So often I read about what or how men should change!! Shouldn’t it be give and take in a relationship?? I don’t think, IMO, that he’s asking too much and has definitely tried by talking to portray his feelings??

Even by posting on TAM it shows a commitment and love for his wife most women could only hope for in a relationship!!!

In this age of equality, it’s ok for men to have feelings!! Is so difficult for women to listen or at least talk about their mans wants and needs?? 

Mismatch sex drives or pressure to take the initiative is BS!!! If he left you for a younger model, correct me if I’m wrong, women become proactive and take the lead!! Even if it’s purely for revenge??

I’m guessing the OP doesn’t want to become distant, start working out,etc....
He’s already in love and wants an answer!!

If I knew the answer I’d be a wealthy man!! 
All I can say is keep trying and hope for enlightenment from a woman’s POV!!!

On saying all that I could be miles away from the OP’s thoughts.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

emcsquared said:


> So I’m a child because women don’t come on to me? Not following....


No, I was commenting on your naivete. Women exactly like your wife in your exact situation cheat. A lot more than you think. Just trust me on this one.

You were correct, in my opinion, that your wife's reaction to being high was an indicator of sexuality that is lying dormant. The fire is in there, obviously. You have to figure out how to pull it out. You may eventually come to the conclusion that she has too much baggage and resentment towards you and no combination of button pushing will get her to the headspace you want her to be in.


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## FrazzledSadHusband (Jul 3, 2014)

OP - I was in your shoes, I am now in the middle of a divorce.
My wife was resistant to intimacy, for a number of reasons, one of which she said she was raped in high school.

She was always reserved, hated receiving oral sex, said her hs bf forced it on her. Until one night she had a couple of drinks. We got home and she initiated, grabbed my head and pushed it down. I gladly gave her oral, she had handfuls of my hair and was pulling & pushing on my head so hard, I thought she was gonna pull lumps of scalp off. All while being more vocal than I ever heard. 

We went at it 3 times that night. The next morning, I woke up and said "That was a awesome night!". Her face turned red and she said "I don't want to talk about it." Ever since then, no matter what, I could not get her to relax.

She recently left, after I had asked her what I could do to make sex better for her. However, just prior than that, she had established contact with a old college friend on FB. So I suspect her "upsetness" was planned out.

She had started a emotional affair with someone multiple states away. It gave her emotional intimacy without the danger of sex. Although I'm certain her old friend said "I would NEVER bother you for sex". How disappointed she will be when they do get together.

We had agreed awhile back to once a week sex. In our last fights, she said it felt like a "quota".

Now, I know her love languages, I worked damn hard on speaking them every day. Most Saturdays I made sure all day was quality time. We had our time together on Sunday mornings.

I tried to spice things up, tried to use showering together as foreplay, massages, etc. She said "I can never do anything right." One time she basically said "I provide the hole, why can't you be happy with that?"

As others have said, you either are OK with what you have, or you get divorced. Word of warning, better have her get a job now. Otherwise, you will be taken to the cleaners in court.

For all those who will want to bash me, consider this. That night was close to 28 years ago. I loved hearing her moan, feeling her body twitch & quiver as I touched/licked her. 

I wanted to be able to give her that incredible feeling, and to experience that bond that comes from being together like that. I told her many times, "We're married, that's what married couples do for each other".

Didn't matter. She has many issues from her past, none of which I can fix. None of which she would consent to talk to a counselor about.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> Someone on this site said it best. “I didn’t buy the house because of the bathroom, but I’ll be mad if you take it away from me”.
> 
> I don’t like going to work everyday but I do it because it the right thing to do for my family. Women should have the same mentality when it comes to intimacy.
> 
> ...



Wow, Just WOW. So sex is our job. NO wonder so many women quit it. People hate their jobs.

I like sex because it's fun and I have a partner whose fun to be with. It takes me away from my job.


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Anastasia6 said:


> BigbadBootyDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Someone on this site said it best. “I didn’t buy the house because of the bathroom, but I’ll be mad if you take it away from me”.
> ...


Guys are simple. We communicate well, it’s women who refuse to listen, and hence jump to conclusion. You’re also proving my point. Go back to my last post. Count the number of times I mentioned Sex? Big fat Zero. Intimacy is what I expect from my wife. A kiss after work. A pinch on the butt (goes both ways). A surprise hug. Etc. “The next orgasm starts the second the last one ended”, and it has nothing to do with the bedroom. I make sure my wife is turned on. If not, she let’s me know (tasks, weight, money). 

To the OP, it’s ok to hit pause. Given your age I assume your kids are adults. Maybe it’s time to reassess? Remember, There is no such thing as soul mate. Destiny and Fate are strippers I met in my 20s, so that’s a bunch of BS. 

There’s also no warranty on life. You only got one chance at this thing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I agree with you. Every once in a while I had peeked at some porn just to try and get my engine running so that I could then go to my wife. While I know 90%+ of the women in there are faking it for money, I also know full well there really are women who enjoy sex that much and are vocal, active, and get into becoming ever better at pleasing their partner. I quit looking because THAT became too painful, since I know that’s not my wife, and most likely, never will be. Isn’t that crazy? I think the *attitude* portrayed in porn is WAY more sexy than fake boobs etc. Yes, I know most of it is fake, but damn it’s sexy as hell. I’m not saying I expect my wife to act like a porn star but just that she show some enthusiasm!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am glad that you have stopped the porn, its completely unrealistic and very damaging for a marriage. 
Yes there are some women who show more enthusiasm, but they aren't your wife. She is who she is. I find it very sad that a woman who loves you, who is happy to have sex 2-3 times a week at the ages you are, makes you discontent. Believe me, she KNOWS that you are discontent, and that will HURT. She tries hard, she is a good wife, you have a good marriage yet STILL that isn't enough for you. I just wish that you could appreciate what you have. Many would give their right arm to have half of what you have. :|


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

BigbadBootyDaddy said:


> Guys are simple. We communicate well, it’s women who refuse to listen, and hence jump to conclusion. You’re also proving my point. Go back to my last post. Count the number of times I mentioned Sex? Big fat Zero. Intimacy is what I expect from my wife. A kiss after work. A pinch on the butt (goes both ways). A surprise hug. Etc. “The next orgasm starts the second the last one ended”, and it has nothing to do with the bedroom. I make sure my wife is turned on. If not, she let’s me know (tasks, weight, money).
> 
> To the OP, it’s ok to hit pause. Given your age I assume your kids are adults. Maybe it’s time to reassess? Remember, There is no such thing as soul mate. Destiny and Fate are strippers I met in my 20s, so that’s a bunch of BS.
> 
> There’s also no warranty on life. You only got one chance at this thing.


Objectifying people is what devalues them. Suggesting that because he's not getting everything he wants he should leave his loving wife of many years is a soulless suggestion. This is a marriage to a loving, giving woman. She isn't an object or a thing to be used up until he's not satisfied with her anymore. Good luck trying to find someone as great as she is who is also willing and enthusiastic about sex with a 50+ man. I guess if he wants someone who's willing to fake it to get at his money, then he'll get what he pays for. Hopefully there is real love here and that won't be an option. Instead I hope he finds peace and is able to work through this with his wife.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> I sincerely don’t think she’d do that. She knows that’d be a dealbreaker for me.


It was for me... :wink2: BTW, still in the marriage, but for other reasons... hopefully, not for too long now.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

OP, your wife is not wired that way and I believe you will damage your relationship if you keep pushing, like I did. You are smart enough to understand this, but somewhat you seem to be blind to the consequences. Like you almost don't care. Sorry, it seems an enormous ego trip to me.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

*Encouraging Growth &amp; Save a Marriage*



dadstartingover said:


> 4. You have the constant underlying negative tension of "my husband needs sex all the time", and that just hurts your cause. NEED is a giant libido-killer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Guys are presented with a Catch-22 on this whole thing and it’s frustrating. Wanting something besides maintenance sex (e.g. passionate lovemaking) results in her thinking she’s not good enough for you, that your pressuring her, accusations you’ve been watching too much porn. Now if you disengage and reflect the same enthusiasm (or lack there of) back at her then she’s worried she’s not good enough and you’re getting it somewhere else.

I suppose I can relate to the pressure-thing in terms of our standard of living. I have a lot of frustration because my wife is always wanting the next big renovation, house, vacation. She can’t be happy with what she has. Spending money brings her great joy but I’m a saver and when she has to hear no she gets bratty.

*EDIT* 
Couples fight about three things: money kids sex. It’s funny how one partner has to accept the status quo for sex. But when It comes to finances or the kids the status quo is usually unacceptable. There’s also a double standard WRT health or weight. “Pressuring” your husband about his belly or being out of shape.... OK. Slightest insinuation that your wife is letting herself go... She’s not good enough and you’re an a**hole. I think if guys really pushed back with the same “am I not good enough?” argument I think their spouses would be shocked. What’s good for the goose and all. Both sexes need to realize that often times “I’m not good enough for you?” really means i know I could do better but I choose not to. OK but you need to realize message you’re sending to your partner.... we’re not teammates we’re now adversaries.

BL - the well may very well be poisoned. You either want to be the end all be all for your spouses sexuality or you don’t. Same for deep conversations, kids or finances. If you have a monopoly on your spouse’s sex life why change? She is asking for expressions of love through quality time, meaningful conversation, gifts, etc. and you’re speaking her language. Men often seek that same thing reflected via sexual expression that’s all. “Phoning it is” is not love it’s obligation.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Cynthia said:


> BigbadBootyDaddy said:
> 
> 
> > Guys are simple. We communicate well, it’s women who refuse to listen, and hence jump to conclusion. You’re also proving my point. Go back to my last post. Count the number of times I mentioned Sex? Big fat Zero. Intimacy is what I expect from my wife. A kiss after work. A pinch on the butt (goes both ways). A surprise hug. Etc. “The next orgasm starts the second the last one ended”, and it has nothing to do with the bedroom. I make sure my wife is turned on. If not, she let’s me know (tasks, weight, money).
> ...


Cynthia, your post caught my eye for two reasons. First, it made me smile because of your comment about trying to find a quality woman enthusiastic about having sex with a 50+ year old man --earlier in the thread men were enjoying talking about how men in their 50s are *so much in their prime* (whereas they said a woman devalues after mid twenties). I'm unsure why men feel they are exempt from woman noticing that the sexes age at the same rate and that YES women really do notice age on a man and YES age objectively affects his sexual appeal just as it does a woman. A 50+ year old body is a 50+ year old body, be it male or female. Both can be in shape or not, but they are both aged. 

Having said that, being 50+ male does not preclude--at all--having a sexual partner (who is also a wonderful woman) who is very sexually passionate and enthusiastic about him and isn't "faking it to get at his money."


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## BigbadBootyDaddy (Jun 18, 2018)

Never told the OP to leave. I said, press pause, reevaluate. 
Know of a few guys in their 50s, triathletes, MMA, who are focused on their career, hobby, and go out on dates. They get their fill (sexually). They are happy without a partner.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Maybe it’s cliche (50 year old guy dates 35 year old, or 50 year lady dates 60 year old wealthy business owner) but look at who middle age people date/marry post-divorce and it’s a really good indicator of what they were looking for in the marriage but weren’t getting.

If you weren’t getting the sex life you wanted or the active lifestyle you wanted, you’re gonna seek someone younger, fitter with a larger sexual appetite. 

If you’re done with sex and just want companionship, than you gonna find a someone who’s testosterone levels are so low they don’t want sex either.

If you didn’t have the standard of living, financial security or social standing you wanted and can’t get it on your own, you’re gonna seek someone to provide that and they’re usually older.

If you want kids but couldn’t have any you’re gonna seek someone who either has kids, wants more kids and won’t be on social security when they are in high school.

So again, there is something to the premise of age has a correlation with “value”. Just depends on what you’re looking for. 



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## Sbrown (Jul 29, 2012)

I could have wrote the op's op with a few minor changes. I've figured out one thing, its not that the sex isn't worth the trouble its you are not worth the trouble. The only difference is when it finally comes to a head in my house she acts interested for a day or two. Oh, and I made the comment once about how great the sex is when she drinks.....guess who quit drinking.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Mr.Married said:


> Just in case it wasn’t clear in my other post I do not believe your wife is manipulating the situation or that she doesn’t care “about you”.
> 
> I have however found a solution to your problem: pot brownies.


She has chronic pain due to a car crash and so she gladly takes a very small dose edible, equal parts THC & CBD which doesn’t remotely even get her “buzzed” but does help with the pain. After years of therapy and other meds, it’s the only thing that gives her relief. That small dose doesn’t impact her sexuality in any way.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

BlindedByTheLight said:


> If I’m correct, in my understanding, the OP wants opinions on fixing things!!
> To me, it seems he loves his wife and is desperate to find solutions in making her understand how important the sex/physical aspect of their relationship is to him!!!
> ...
> Even by posting on TAM it shows a commitment and love for his wife most women could only hope for in a relationship!!!


That’s exactly it. I WANT this relationship and I very sincerely love this woman. We’ve been thru so much together. 

I had a feeling I’d get some feedback like “you’re an idiot - you have so much - how rude of you to want more” but, again, I’m looking to invest in and improve my marriage. It’s true, sometimes she does have feelings of inadequacy. It’s also true that I’m sexually bored. Neither of those things are good. I’m not willing to (yet) shrug my shoulders and just keep repeating to myself “it is what it is”. There MUST be a way to bring about a win-win for both of us.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

dadstartingover said:


> You were correct, in my opinion, that your wife's reaction to being high was an indicator of sexuality that is lying dormant. The fire is in there, obviously. You have to figure out how to pull it out.


And that’s what’s occupying my headspace lately. How AMAZING it would be if only I could tease this part of her out that’s buried in there....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> It’s also true that I’m sexually bored.



You are having sex 3 times/week... have less sex and you will enjoy it more when you have it... :wink2:


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

What you want is reasonable, but I'm not so sure it's achievable. It's like saying you want your kid to be a doctor, but that's probably not achievable if they don't really like school. But it sounds like you're going to try for reasonable changes, so that's good.

You should take some time to contemplate what constitutes her version of hot sex. Chances are, it might not be what you consider hot sex. I wouldn't be surprised if her version is like what you see in an ED commercial, where a couple spends the day going antiquing, sitting on the dock in the evening sipping wine having deep conversations, and then proceeds to the bedroom. And then in the bedroom, she might want more of a lovemaking experience rather than adventurous sex. Maybe she really wants to be held tightly and then cuddle afterwards. She might prefer a more tender experience rather than one where she has 20 explosive orgasms. Quite often, men want a more dynamic experience where it's more about hot sex than emotional connection. But I'm just making stereotypical assumptions. You know her very well and should be able to figure out what makes her most happy in the bedroom. The more the experience matches up with what she enjoys, the more willing and energetic she will be. That doesn't necessarily mean she'll be more adventurous, but she'll be more present and connected with you at the time.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Cynthia said:


> Objectifying people is what devalues them. Suggesting that because he's not getting everything he wants he should leave his loving wife of many years is a soulless suggestion. This is a marriage to a loving, giving woman. She isn't an object or a thing to be used up until he's not satisfied with her anymore. Good luck trying to find someone as great as she is who is also willing and enthusiastic about sex with a 50+ man. I guess if he wants someone who's willing to fake it to get at his money, then he'll get what he pays for. Hopefully there is real love here and that won't be an option. Instead I hope he finds peace and is able to work through this with his wife.


I’m not going to leave my wife. I said that in my first post. And I tell her often how awesome she is for all that she is and all that she does. I would LIKE more in the sexual enthusiasm department. If that’s a crime, then I’m guilty as charged. I keep saying that I know I can’t change her. Maybe I’m a knuckle-dragger but atm I’m convinced there’s more to her sexuality than she’s letting on. I assume it’s something about ME that’s causing her to keep it repressed. So maybe there’s something in ME that can change to encourage her to reveal the “full her” to me....?


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

emcsquared said:


> There MUST be a way to bring about a win-win for both of us.



Hard to have a win-win when you’re the other team and the other doesn’t want to show up. Seriously though:
1) Don’t talk about sex
2) Go down to once a week, and take care of yourself 
3) See if maybe SHE needs HRT (my wife did at 45 with perimenopause) but not tied to sex but other things like fatigue, etc.



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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Well, sorry if this is a bummer of a thought, but it might be the truth. You can't manufacture passion in someone else for you. She just might not have it for you. Having natural passion for a man makes a woman do what you want your wife to do in terms of energy, enthusiasm, excitement, effort, participation, etc.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

aaarghdub said:


> 1) Don’t talk about sex


Since 90% of the time we do it leads to a fight, I generally don’t. 



aaarghdub said:


> 2) Go down to once a week, and take care of yourself


She’d be 100% on board with that, although she might think “what’s up?” since she knows I long for that emotional connection with her more often than that. And, as I mentioned before, my connection to her will start to fade a bit if I do that. The prospect of once per week saddens me b/c I love all aspects of the intimacy with my wife.



aaarghdub said:


> 3) See if maybe SHE needs HRT (my wife did at 45 with perimenopause) but not tied to sex but other things like fatigue, etc.


She does. She has extremely low T for a woman. She was nearly convinced TRT would give her cancer. She did try a T cream for a few weeks but said it made her skin greasy so she quit. She’s had a hysterectomy but retained her ovaries and a recent doc visit said she’s not yet started menopause. Gotta admit I’m apprehensive what’s gunna happen when that drops...


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Well, sorry if this is a bummer of a thought, but it might be the truth. You can't manufacture passion in someone else for you. She just might not have it for you. Having natural passion for a man makes a woman do what you want your wife to do in terms of energy, enthusiasm, excitement, effort, participation, etc.


In my insecure moments that thought has haunted me. In my prideful moments, I think.. “How could she NOT be attracted to me? I look early 40’s, have all my hair, no belly, in good shape, my kids say I’m by far the best dressed / fashionable dad they know, I’m a great dad, I’m faithful, I treat the women in my life like queens (I have 3 daughters), a proven leader in multiple significant venues, and (lately) I earn 7 figures. If that’s not attractive to her I don’t know what could be. For my own sake, I do want to hit the gym and build more muscle mass. I’m already no embarrassment with my shirt off.

But you could be right - maybe all that just doesn’t do it for her in a way that brings out the “natural passion”. There’s no doubt she thinks I’m a good catch as a husband. But perhaps there’s something lacking in me that would bring out the passion in the bedroom. She had it when we first got together. Maybe it’s just an effect of being together for 25 years?


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

I think if she said “what’s up?” You’d just say you get it and you realize that forcing intimacy is having the opposite effect and you can’t really have one-sided emotional intimacy. That and you respect where she’s at and she doesn’t need to be fixed.

So in reality, you are getting physical intimacy and she’s emotionally comforting you through sex. True emotional intimacy requires a positive feedback loop which you can’t force out of someone. They either want to or they don’t. She does not wish to express her feelings of love by being overtly sexual but by letting you be inside her even when she could take it or leave it.

I get it. It’s a big blow that you’ve reach a point in your lives where the only person who is suppose to sexually crave you and want to please you is telling you they have no sexual need for you anymore and oh BTW don’t you dare seek it elsewhere.

WRT to the low T, I think your chance of “growth” is close to zero if she doesn’t seek to elevate it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

i wish I had a nickel for every person on this forum who claims to earn 7 figures. Just so you know, the odd change doesn't count so delete the decimal point and change.:grin2:


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> That’s exactly it. I WANT this relationship and I very sincerely love this woman. We’ve been thru so much together.
> 
> 
> 
> I had a feeling I’d get some feedback like “you’re an idiot - you have so much - how rude of you to want more” but, again, I’m looking to invest in and improve my marriage. It’s true, sometimes she does have feelings of inadequacy. It’s also true that I’m sexually bored. Neither of those things are good. I’m not willing to (yet) shrug my shoulders and just keep repeating to myself “it is what it is”. There MUST be a way to bring about a win-win for both of us.


The problem is that you're not really looking to personally improve your relationship. You want your wife to do something to improve the relationship. You want her to feel differently and behave differently out of these feelings you want her to have. The more you dwell on that rather than dwelling on what you can control and on what you have to be thankful for, you are dwelling on what you don't have and cannot manufacture. That could destroy your marriage and is a recipe for misery. 

The bottom line is that you're dissatisfied with your wife. The longer you continue to dwell on the negative and what your wife isn't rather than the positive aspects of your marriage and what your wife is, the more your wife will feel inadequate and unloved and the worse things will get.

The only thing that might bring you what you desire is to attend marriage counseling together with the focus on working together for both of you to make changes that will improve your marriage, but what you are doing right now will only make matters worse. 

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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> That’s exactly it. I WANT this relationship and I very sincerely love this woman. We’ve been thru so much together.
> 
> I had a feeling I’d get some feedback like “you’re an idiot - you have so much - how rude of you to want more” but, again, I’m looking to invest in and improve my marriage. It’s true, sometimes she does have feelings of inadequacy. It’s also true that I’m sexually bored. Neither of those things are good. I’m not willing to (yet) shrug my shoulders and just keep repeating to myself “it is what it is”. There MUST be a way to bring about a win-win for both of us.


I do think that people need to realise that marriage is never going to be perfect. Two imperfect people are involved and compromise is needed. 
You may or may not find a way to improve things to be more the way YOU want them to be, but you may not. 
I think that contentment is important, rather than discontentment and always wanting more. You have so much, yet you are still discontent. I find that very sad.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Thanks a lot, OP, for dragging me back in on a topic near and dear.

This post isn't about me, but you need just enough background - I'm 34 years married to a woman who thinks the height of risk taking in the bedroom is to turn on the lights. Who requires sex to ALWAYS be face-to-face. Who has not and will not ever consider oral sex from either side. Who will not shower with me nor let me touch her below the waist. 

I'm not broken for wanting more. She's not broken either, even if the first question everyone asks is about past sexual abuse. We are sexually incompatible, even though she is happy to have sex her way twice a week and orgasms easily. She's not the way she is because I'm not attentive nor attractive enough. I'm not the way I am because I've seen one too many porn videos that, with my double digit IQ, I've mistaken for reality. Human sexual expression is, like every other human aspect, distributed along a continuum. Neither of us is broken. Neither is to blame. It is a problem with the system. 

You are still in the denial phase where you think that there is a fix for this. And of course, I cannot say for certainty that there is not, but at this point do you really think it's likely? To how many years with a sex therapist would you subject your marriage to get yourself 10% closer to the solution you would find enjoyable? How many more arguments would you like that always follow the same trajectory and never create meaningful progress? Your only real choices are acceptance or ending the marriage. I wouldn't blame you for choosing either, but don't continue to entertain the possibility of a magic solution that gets both of you most of what you want. That's chasing a unicorn that most of us in this position will never catch.

Recall the third line of the serenity prayer.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I’m not going to leave my wife. I said that in my first post. And I tell her often how awesome she is for all that she is and all that she does. I would LIKE more in the sexual enthusiasm department. If that’s a crime, then I’m guilty as charged. I keep saying that I know I can’t change her. Maybe I’m a knuckle-dragger but atm I’m convinced there’s more to her sexuality than she’s letting on. I assume it’s something about ME that’s causing her to keep it repressed. So maybe there’s something in ME that can change to encourage her to reveal the “full her” to me....?


You are WANTING there to be more to her sexuality, maybe she is just happy to do what you do now and to be honest you need to love her as she is and not how you want her to be.

Its good that you are not wanting to end the marriage, I just don't get why some here advise causing an earthquake in their families lives because they are not 100% happy with their sex lives. How selfish. 
I would never ever end my marriage for that.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> In my insecure moments that thought has haunted me. In my prideful moments, I think.. “How could she NOT be attracted to me? I look early 40’s, have all my hair, no belly, in good shape, my kids say I’m by far the best dressed / fashionable dad they know, I’m a great dad, I’m faithful, I treat the women in my life like queens (I have 3 daughters), a proven leader in multiple significant venues, and (lately) I earn 7 figures. If that’s not attractive to her I don’t know what could be. For my own sake, I do want to hit the gym and build more muscle mass. I’m already no embarrassment with my shirt off.
> 
> But you could be right - maybe all that just doesn’t do it for her in a way that brings out the “natural passion”. There’s no doubt she thinks I’m a good catch as a husband. But perhaps there’s something lacking in me that would bring out the passion in the bedroom. She had it when we first got together. Maybe it’s just an effect of being together for 25 years?


Wow, you have all that and yet you are still discontent? You should live some peoples lives. :frown2:


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Again, Diana is recommending rug sweeping. The wife needs to start caring about her husband's discontent in this area. Sounds like she pulls, perhaps, silent treatment regarding their sexual issues and arguing instead of listening to him and trying to work with him on this. Perhaps because she thinks he's not going anywhere. And that's dangerous. He's here saying he's losing attraction to her, having an issue with finishing, feeling resentful, and has contemplated leaving. Recommending he basically stuff his feelings on this is poor advice.



Diana7 said:


> emcsquared said:
> 
> 
> > That’s exactly it. I WANT this relationship and I very sincerely love this woman. We’ve been thru so much together.
> ...


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Livvie said:


> Again, Diana is recommending rug sweeping. The wife needs to start caring about her husband's discontent in this area. Sounds like she pulls, perhaps, silent treatment regarding their sexual issues and arguing instead of listening to him and trying to work with him on this. Perhaps because she thinks he's not going anywhere. And that's dangerous. He's here saying he's losing attraction to her, having an issue with finishing, feeling resentful, and has contemplated leaving. Recommending he basically stuff his feelings on this is poor advice.


I think what she is saying is that his wife might not ever deliver on the pornstar sex he desires. But so what? Thats just not who she is. If they are still having sex, even if its vanilla, why is that so bad for him? Why does sex however it comes have to be sport if its to be good. Thats what hookups amount to not a loving marital bond.

OP is obviously not stupid enough to throw away a great marriage for the chance at pornstar sex. Some fleeting satisfaction isn't going to amount to **** in the end.

I think honestly he needs to stop whining about the molehills and be thankful for the mountains.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I’m not going to leave my wife. I said that in my first post. And I tell her often how awesome she is for all that she is and all that she does. I would LIKE more in the sexual enthusiasm department. If that’s a crime, then I’m guilty as charged. I keep saying that I know I can’t change her. Maybe I’m a knuckle-dragger but atm I’m convinced there’s more to her sexuality than she’s letting on. I assume it’s something about ME that’s causing her to keep it repressed. So maybe there’s something in ME that can change to encourage her to reveal the “full her” to me....?


Maybe it is something about YOU. You shared that you feel sick doing anything sexual unless you have full enthusiast consent due a past relationship with a sexual assault victim. That would be a huge turn off for me and would result in a lot of disappointment. My husband once put his hand on my neck during sex (not in a squeezing I-want-to-kill-you sort of way) and man it was so hot! If he had asked me if he could do it I most certainly would’ve said hell no. Same with positions - I can’t imagine him asking me if he can lift this leg up and come in from this angle. I would immediately find reasons why that would be a bad idea. He doesn’t ask, he does, and mercy those are the most amazing moments. (And sometimes a new position like that will throw off my sciatica and ruin the whole thing. Just a roll of the dice). 

Is it possible you were doing more “doing” and less asking and seeking permission during the pot sex session? Maybe your hang ups are part of what keeps her repressed?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> Wow, you have all that and yet you are still discontent? You should live some peoples lives. :frown2:


I am NOT discontent in every aspect of my life. On the contrary, I am blessed beyond belief. I am merely looking to expand & improve ONE area of my life, albeit an important one to me. I just don’t buy the argument that “since so much is going well for me in my life, I shouldn’t bother trying to improve things any more”. We are all works in progress. Why not strive for continuous self-improvement?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Well, sorry if this is a bummer of a thought, but it might be the truth. You can't manufacture passion in someone else for you. She just might not have it for you. Having natural passion for a man makes a woman do what you want your wife to do in terms of energy, enthusiasm, excitement, effort, participation, etc.


Just keep in mind that your wife can still love you, very much, without passion. Which is one of the most-frustrating revelations this 63 year old guy has had to deal with. It's tough explaining to your wife that "Love" isn't enough. By its very definition, it should be, right? So how does that make me feel, to believe otherwise?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I think honestly he needs to stop whining about the molehills and be thankful for the mountains.


So my desire for growth in my marital sex life is whining? Got it.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Bluesclues said:


> Maybe it is something about YOU. You shared that you feel sick doing anything sexual unless you have full enthusiast consent due a past relationship with a sexual assault victim. That would be a huge turn off for me and would result in a lot of disappointment. My husband once put his hand on my neck during sex (not in a squeezing I-want-to-kill-you sort of way) and man it was so hot! If he had asked me if he could do it I most certainly would’ve said hell no. Same with positions - I can’t imagine him asking me if he can lift this leg up and come in from this angle. I would immediately find reasons why that would be a bad idea. He doesn’t ask, he does, and mercy those are the most amazing moments. (And sometimes a new position like that will throw off my sciatica and ruin the whole thing. Just a roll of the dice).
> 
> Is it possible you were doing more “doing” and less asking and seeking permission during the pot sex session? Maybe your hang ups are part of what keeps her repressed?


I absolutely don’t ask her to move her around during sex. And sometimes I do hold her neck firmly - she’s not been sexually assaulted so I’m not worried about triggering her. It’s more like this: “I’d love for you to get some hot lingerie to wear for me”. “Why? Why not just be naked?”. “Because you’d look so hot in that!”. “I don’t think so...”. And I leave it at that. I’m NOT going to push her.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

emcsquared said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > I think honestly he needs to stop whining about the molehills and be thankful for the mountains.
> ...


Is pornstar sex considered growth? Unless she is starfishing and handing you excuses left and right shutting it down then its hard for me to generate much compassion for you. If there is no passion in her for you, then its up to you to manufacture that passion in her. It doesn't come from drugs. Read 'Married Mans Sex Life Primer' if that is what you need to work on. Or maybe its simply menopause. It happens, you both aren't spring chickens anymore.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> I am NOT discontent in every aspect of my life. On the contrary, I am blessed beyond belief. I am merely looking to expand & improve ONE area of my life, albeit an important one to me. I just don’t buy the argument that “since so much is going well for me in my life, I shouldn’t bother trying to improve things any more”. We are all works in progress. Why not strive for continuous self-improvement?


You aren't looking for self-improvement. You are looking for wife improvement. It's not the same thing. These statements are statements of entitlement. At first I didn't think that this had anything to do with how your wife feels about you, but I'm beginning to change my mind. 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> So my desire for growth in my marital sex life is whining? Got it.


Trying to change things can cause change itself, and the change is not always positive. You said this before:



emcsquared said:


> And she has in fact yelled at me “you need help!” in a recent argument so yes, she’d come, with the clear understanding that it’s me who’s “broken” and needs to be fixed.


It sounds like she's already becoming defensive and putting up walls. Whatever you're doing needs to change. Obviously, you can imagine where the current path is going to lead if she's already reacting like this. Your 2-3x/week could become 2-3x/month. I don't get the sense that hot sex, lingerie, and stuff like that is nearly as enjoyable to her as it is to you. It may even turn her off. Maybe she thinks it's trashy or who knows. I think the more you push in that direction, the more walls she'll put up.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Self-improvement only covers parts of your life that you are personally in control of. Telling yourself that this is about self-improvement doesn't make it so. This is 100% about you not being satisfied with your sex life because your wife isn't on the same page as you are. The more she believes you are dissatisfied with her, the more self-conscious she will become and the more reserved she will become. 

Your best option is counseling and expressing your satisfaction with everything you are satisfied with in your wife, including being loving and affectionate during sex, which are marriage building activities. 

The fact that your wife has become very upset with you over this topic indicates that she's probably dissatisfied as well. Are you going to change for her or does it only go one way? 

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

emcsquared said:


> So my desire for growth in my marital sex life is whining? Got it.


I think what may be growth for you isn’t growth for her.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Well, OP, I can't bash you for where you head is now. I've been there, and I suspect a lot of the pushback you're getting here is from people who have never been in a multi-decade marriage with someone with whom they have a large sexual disconnect.

So yes, growth to save your marriage is probably a good thing. Maybe you didn't realize that much (most?) of this growth was going to become yours to account for, but I think it is.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

It’s just like any other thing in the marriage. One person wants more or different and the other person will rise to the challenge or not. And as we all know we can’t make our partners do anything they don’t want to do. 

Whether it’s more sex, romance, help around the house etc. it’s difficult to be the person dissatisfied or wanting more.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

Girl_power said:


> It’s just like any other thing in the marriage. One person wants more or different and the other person will rise to the challenge or not. And as we all know we can’t make our partners do anything they don’t want to do.
> 
> Whether it’s more sex, romance, help around the house etc. it’s difficult to be the person dissatisfied or wanting more.


Sure it is.

But I think the ease comes with a choice... am I willing to walk away if I don't get what I want, or think I need?

I think you need to find peace with whatever decision you make.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Again, Diana is recommending rug sweeping. The wife needs to start caring about her husband's discontent in this area. Sounds like she pulls, perhaps, silent treatment regarding their sexual issues and arguing instead of listening to him and trying to work with him on this. Perhaps because she thinks he's not going anywhere. And that's dangerous. He's here saying he's losing attraction to her, having an issue with finishing, feeling resentful, and has contemplated leaving. Recommending he basically stuff his feelings on this is poor advice.


No recommending rug sweeping at all, but recommending loving our spouse as they are and not as we want them to be. 
Being thankful for the good that we have.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Girl_power said:


> It’s just like any other thing in the marriage. One person wants more or different and the other person will rise to the challenge or not. And as we all know we can’t make our partners do anything they don’t want to do.
> 
> Whether it’s more sex, romance, help around the house etc. it’s difficult to be the person dissatisfied or wanting more.


Then its up to the person to make an effort to stop that dissatisfaction and love their spouse as they are, and stop trying to change them. 
I often hear men complain that women marry them and spend the next few years trying to change them. That's what is happening here.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I am NOT discontent in every aspect of my life. On the contrary, I am blessed beyond belief. I am merely looking to expand & improve ONE area of my life, albeit an important one to me. I just don’t buy the argument that “since so much is going well for me in my life, I shouldn’t bother trying to improve things any more”. We are all works in progress. Why not strive for continuous self-improvement?


You have said a lot about what you have tried to do to change things sexually for your benefit, but you haven't said anything about how you can work on loving and accepting your wife as she is, instead of trying to make her into something she isn't. 
Its not self improvement you are wanting, its to make your wife be who she isn't. 
You have this picture in your head of what you think women should be like in sex, and you are discontent because to you she isn't like those women. No she isn't, she is who she is. So accept that or spend the rest of your life making her feel not good enough and that you are disappointed in her, because believe me, she knows these things. Quite honestly I am amazed that she even wants to have sex with you at all, when she knows she isn't good enough.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Leave or be asexual. Those are your choices. Yes, it stinks to face those choices. No, there isn't another choice.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

Holdingontoit said:


> Leave or be asexual. Those are your choices. Yes, it stinks to face those choices. No, there isn't another choice.


What a bunch of poop. He is not asexual. He's getting more sex from his wife than most men his age. Making things up to bolster the OP's position isn't doing him any good.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Cynthia said:


> What a bunch of poop. He is not asexual. He's getting more sex from his wife than most men his age. Making things up to bolster the OP's position isn't doing him any good.


There is a big difference between "more sex" (which probably means "more sex than most" I'm thinking?) and an appropriate level of intimacy, of which sex is a shared part, something both participate in as opposed to the wife acquiescing. 

Our MC thinks the issue is that my wife cannot "surrender" to passion. It's almost a control thing, because if you "surrender" you lose control. That could be the case here too. My wife balked at that description, so the MC softened it to "loosening up."

And yes, we can contort words like "surrender", "loosen up" and even "submit" to have very bad connotations. Or not. It's very important not just to use a word or phrase, but provide context for it.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

Your reaction is completely normal when you said:


emcsquared said:


> Perhaps it's a personality defect in me but if our sex life ain't great then my emotional connection to her begins to fade.


That's not a defect. That is very common in men. But even though you're having frequent sex, it sounds like it's not satisfying for either of you. It sounds like it's more of a chore for her, and no loving husband wants to force his wife to have sex that she doesn't want to have. Even though your frequency is good, I can understand that this kind of sex can leave you empty and weaken your emotional connection with her. 

Here's what I think you should do. For the moment, forget about having wilder or more passionate sex. Try to focus on making what you have better and more enjoyable for both of you. But you can't do it on your own. She will need to be an active part of this process. She will need to think about and communicate what she needs in order to enjoy sex. Tell her you love her and need to have a satisfying sex life and you want her to have the same. Since past conversations haven't gone well, go to marriage counseling so you can discuss things in a more neutral setting. How things go in counseling will tell you a lot about how things will go in the future. If she's resistant to everything, has lots of reasons why she can't, won't, and shouldn't have sex; then there's not much hope that things will change in a significant way. But if she seems willing to participate, communicate her desires, and build a better connection, then things can get better. But you also have be willing to meet her in the middle based on what's realistic. What you're trying to achieve right now seems like it will be too challenging and she may feel it's hopeless if you say that's the only thing that will make you happy. You'll need to listen to her and take what she says to heart.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

i agree with many here. This is not about her growth, its about you convincing your wife to be what you want her to be. 
She must feel very pressured in bed. And inadequate.

I cant imagine looking forward to a romantic, meaningful anniversary only to have him challenge me with thinking about a new sex act!
Id tell you to go alone, given the state of the marriage.

You say you would never force her physically, but consider this, you are forcing yourself on her mentally.

Growth and improvement needs to occur on both sides here. May i suggest MC with a sex therapist? Not one to convince her to do what you want, but one that helps you both negotiate a loving and fulfilling safe zone for sexual expression. It may mean that you need to temper your expectations, while she broadens hers. Go in with an open mind.

And please re read your post. I sense a hint of the transactional here. Expensive vacation = new sexual adventures in return.
Please seek MC. The outcome will determine next steps for both of you.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

*Encouraging Growth &amp; Save a Marriage*

After reading and commenting it occurred to me that what may be really going is OP is trying to tell his wife that there are different types of love and while love is an internal emotion how it gets expressed is different.

She is expressing pragma (enduring love) in the bedroom and this doesn’t comport with his desire to express love and receive expressions of erotic (sexual) love. Erotic love is only expressed to one person In a relationship.. your spouse. Absent a genuine reflection of passion and what appears to be obligation back at them, one partner takes this as “I love you but I’m not I love with you and I just don’t feel that way about you anymore.” Now a lot goes into that and you can’t throws rocks at someone for that because you either have passion or you don’t. 

After having some barriers removed she proved that there is erotic love in there and that’s what he so desperately wants. Her walls are up for some reason and only she determines if and when they come down. I get it. She was stepping on your air hose for so long and then took her foot off for a few seconds. She’s just not getting the message that non-passionate sex is just as bad as not getting any (emotionally speaking).

*EDIT*
Forget MC, start IC and take her out of the equation. You have to deal with yourself first. She’s having sex 2-3x a week because she feels obligated to and possibly hold the moral high ground and take away the argument she is denying it or you. Regardless, just work with the IC on a way ahead to accepting (or not accepting) what she’s offering you and how that affects your marriage going forward.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Holdingontoit said:


> Leave or be asexual. Those are your choices. Yes, it stinks to face those choices. No, there isn't another choice.


His marriage isn't asexual. He's getting it 3 times a week. It's just not the porn sex he wants.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

IMO what is happening here is a basic state of the human condition: nothing being good enough, always wanting more, the grass is greener.

If you didn't have your wife in your life, you probably wouldn't even be having 3 times a week "bad" sex. Many other good things would also be missing from your life. You would be thinking of the good old days when you were married to your wife and having loving, even if it isn't porn worthy, sex 3 times a week with a wife who loves you.

You need to work on your character, and deal with your lack of greatfulness. Not greatfulness to your wife, but to God, the universe, whatever you believe in. 

Like Diana said, your life is 95% good, and you are focusing on the 5% that could be better. You are on the precipice of disaster. Don't blow up your and your wife's life over this. You WILL regret it.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Adelais said:


> You need to work on your character, and deal with your lack of greatfulness. Not greatfulness to your wife, but to God, the universe, whatever you believe in.


Wow, judgemental much?


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

Numb26 said:


> Wow, judgemental much?


No. Observant. Combine that with sage wisdom I've gleaned over the decades. No my wisdom, the sages' wisdom. I just shared it. You're trying to shoot the messenger.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Diana7 said:


> You have said a lot about what you have tried to do to change things sexually for your benefit, but you haven't said anything about how you can work on loving and accepting your wife as she is, instead of trying to make her into something she isn't.
> Its not self improvement you are wanting, its to make your wife be who she isn't.
> You have this picture in your head of what you think women should be like in sex, and you are discontent because to you she isn't like those women. No she isn't, she is who she is. So accept that or spend the rest of your life making her feel not good enough and that you are disappointed in her, because believe me, she knows these things. Quite honestly I am amazed that she even wants to have sex with you at all, when she knows she isn't good enough.


I must just suck at communicating. I’ve said repeatedly I have both a suspicion and some good evidence there’s much more to her sexuality than she’s letting on. My guess is that it’s cultural conditioning and even “religious contexts” that convey the message that a “good wife” just doesn’t “do such things” or “act such ways” with her husband. Only “****ty” women do that is the message she’s been taught by others. It’s a damn shame and just maybe that lie can be dispelled from her head.

So, again, I am NOT pressuring her to change into what “I think women should be like in sex”. I’m wanting to see what *I* can do to give her the encouragement and “safe place” to let her hair down so to speak with her sexuality. There’s a massive difference. Either you don’t see that or you think I’m lying?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> i agree with many here. This is not about her growth, its about you convincing your wife to be what you want her to be.
> She must feel very pressured in bed. And inadequate.


Please read my post on this I just made where I address this. Also, I NEVER pressure her in bed. EVER. That very idea makes me nauseous. 



aquarius1 said:


> I cant imagine looking forward to a romantic, meaningful anniversary only to have him challenge me with thinking about a new sex act!
> Id tell you to go alone, given the state of the marriage.


Wow. Just wow. I took her on a fabulous trip to celebrate OUR MARRIAGE. Not to pressure her into anything. I treat her like a queen and she’d tell you that to your face. When I asked her to think of some sexual “thing” we hadn’t done before, she reacted with a smile and said “OK!” ENTHUSIASTICALLY. As I said, when the time came, she hadn’t given it another thought. Is that hard-core PRESSURE? Another thing I’m very thankful for - that I’m not married to someone who thinks like you.





aquarius1 said:


> You say you would never force her physically, but consider this, you are forcing yourself on her mentally.


Again, just wow. ANY kind of sexual pressure LITERALLY turns me off more than.... I was about to be very crude here but I won’t be. Let’s just say THAT would be my ED.



aquarius1 said:


> And please re read your post. I sense a hint of the transactional here. Expensive vacation = new sexual adventures in return


Absolute B.S. I took her on a great trip to celebrate US and all that we’ve been thru. When she broke my heart with her response I completely hid my reaction and buried it. Why? Because I’m a selfish boor (as some of you have accused me of)? No, because she’d previously stated that she feels more sexually open & adventurous on trips away from the kids and she liked my idea. Obviously not enough to give it another moment’s thought but at the time it was an enthusiastic ok.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

*Re: Encouraging Growth &amp; Save a Marriage*



aaarghdub said:


> Forget MC, start IC and take her out of the equation. You have to deal with yourself first. She’s having sex 2-3x a week because she feels obligated to and possibly hold the moral high ground and take away the argument she is denying it or you. Regardless, just work with the IC on a way ahead to accepting (or not accepting) what she’s offering you and how that affects your marriage going forward.


I am starting to lean this way. I am truly starting to think I’m the one who’s broken here for wanting what I want.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Adelais said:


> You are on the precipice of disaster. Don't blow up your and your wife's life over this. You WILL regret it.


Again, clearly, I suck at communication since I’ve said repeatedly I’m not going to leave my wife or blow up our lives over this. But few here seem to believe me when I say that. I know damn well my life is better for having her in it.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Adelais said:


> His marriage isn't asexual. He's getting it 3 times a week. It's just not the porn sex he wants.


There is a vast gulf of possibility between lackluster sex three times a week and wild monkey porn sex. 

Wanting something in between does not make one an ungrateful bastard.

This guy is getting piled on here for the sin of dissatisfaction with his sex life - which I dare say accounts for the vast majority of the people engaged in this forum.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

*Re: Encouraging Growth &amp; Save a Marriage*



emcsquared said:


> I am starting to lean this way. I am truly starting to think I’m the one who’s broken here for wanting what I want.


Yeah, well, that's as wrong as thinking your wife is to blame. 

Two perfectly normal people can find themselves in a sexually mismatched relationship. Neither is at fault.

The only thing you're missing here is the acceptance part - of yourself, and of your wife, and of a situation that is probably about as good as it's going to get. I don't know of any Jedi mind trick other than the passage of time to get you there more quickly.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

emcsquared said:


> Again, clearly, I suck at communication since I’ve said repeatedly I’m not going to leave my wife or blow up our lives over this. But few here seem to believe me when I say that. I know damn well my life is better for having her in it.


It is just that we've read people say that they are unhappy about x (usually sex) but they aren't planning on leaving their spouse. They become more and more unhappy and so does the spouse. Eventually they or their spouse have met someone else or are looking forward to the day they can divorce (children move out.) You are on a slippery slope not being happy that 95% of your life is great, and instead nurturing your 5% sense of entitlement.

Your wife doesn't have to feel about sex the way you do. She just needs to participate and enjoy it in her own way. Expecting her to think about it the same way, or amount that you do is not reasonable or healthy on your part.

You are poisoning your own well.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

*It's not necessarily about porn sex*



Adelais said:


> His marriage isn't asexual. He's getting it 3 times a week. It's just not the porn sex he wants.


It bothers me that there's almost a reflexive response that, if someone says sex isn't good enough, or often enough, that it's "porn sex" or in general something the wife or husband isn't capable of delivering. We spend so much time talking about the reasons why the other party "can't deliver" what, typically the guy, is asking for.

I think a lot of this comes from the false assumption, for many of us guys, that we want to be in control. That the very act of desiring sex means we want to control the other person in some way, and the other person sees their ability to restrict sex as their own control. 

Sexual passion doesn't mean wild sex for many of us. It might mean the quietest, most intimate possible experience with our partner. It means partaking in something that is one of the very, very few things reserved only for a married couple (this is TAM so I'm just going by definition; same applies to LTRs). I honestly don't think our partners want to see or understand that sometimes, because it involves a degree of vulnerability and sharing that scares them. It's giving in to the other person, which is really really REALLY the wrong way to look at it; it's giving in to the two of you as a couple.

But when was the last time you saw that modeled on TV? Grey's Anatomy... one of the most popular shows on TV and what is it saying about relationships and love on a level that goes beyond the orgasm? The orgasm itself is not an expression of love. The expression of love is enabling the orgasm to happen (if it can). It's not about ramps and positions and alignment. Unless it is, and that's fine too, if both parties are into it.

Does this make sense? It's like this is something right beyond my reach that I feel but can't adequately explain.


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

*Re: It's not necessarily about porn sex*



Casual Observer said:


> Does this make sense? It's like this is something right beyond my reach that I feel but can't adequately explain.


Yeah, I think a lot of men understand what you mean. I think of it like this:

Duty sex = microwaved Spaghetti-O's
Intimate sex = fresh pasta with Nona's tomato sauce
Porn star sex = Holiday dinner with 7 sides

Although duty sex is still sex, it is very unsatisfying and is just providing basic subsistence. Intimate sex is emotionally fullfilling. Porn star sex is fun and exciting. Intimate sex is what allows the relationship to last a long time. Duty sex does not meet the same need and it's not surprising if the relationship falls apart. Expecting someone to be happy with duty sex is like expecting them to be happy eating only Spaghetti-O's for the rest of their life.


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## Adelais (Oct 23, 2013)

emcsquared said:


> I'm a guy, early 50's, who many would describe as "having it all": good wife, healthy kids, big income, successful business owner, etc. I should be the happiest guy on the planet but one issue continues to haunt me: our sex life.
> 
> Even there, I have no big reason to complain. While she used to be a refuser/gatekeeper when the kids were younger she's come to understand that sex for me is far more than a simple physical release (which she used to think). For me, sex is the primary means of my emotional connection with her. Perhaps it's a personality defect in me but if our sex life ain't great then my emotional connection to her begins to fade. Happy to report *she almost never says no anymore.
> *
> ...


Your wife is a sexual being. She has regular sex with you, she has "one and done" orgasms, you "know exactly how to push her buttons." You just want her to behave all the time the way she did when she was high on MJ. I don't believe that she doesn't remember the experience. She remembers. She knows she enjoyed it. But 20 orgasms is exhausting, and time consuming. Perhaps because she knows you are more preoccupied with your sex life with her, she knows that you would pressure her to have more than "one and done" every time. She might be afraid she opened Pandora's box.

Your first step needs to be for the two of you to go to counseling and for you to tell the counselor everything you said in this post. What happened that day needs to be discussed. You and she need to talk about your feelings about it.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

*Re: It's not necessarily about porn sex*



wilson said:


> Yeah, I think a lot of men understand what you mean. I think of it like this:
> 
> Duty sex = microwaved Spaghetti-O's
> Intimate sex = fresh pasta with Nona's tomato sauce
> ...


So I would suggest that the person or couple who has a glass of wine each night to relax... is that a duty, or a pleasurable routine? I don't think we can eliminate duty sex, but it should certainly be recognized as far, far, far less than desirable. A pleasurable routine. As soon as we put "routine" in there, it sounds bad. Why? 

A whole lot of people can live a very happy life without ever having that massive holiday dinner. In fact, some even dread it, while at the same time look forward to something simpler served nicely on a "routine" basis. I think it's OK to think the life someone else is living is an interesting fantasy, but we don't have to live our lives believing that fantasy is something we should experience frequently, and our happiness doesn't depend upon it happening ever. The trouble is, we have, within the confines of our bedroom, the same ingredients that can create a fine glass of wine or that off-the-charts holiday dinner. So who wouldn't believe they're being short-changed if they can't do that really wild thing?


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

dadstartingover said:


> Sorry, Diana... no. If a man plays his cards right (and with pharmaceutical help, as I pointed out), he CAN be in great shape, look good, have a maturity and wisdom that only comes with age, have his finances in order, etc. The world is his oyster.


I feel mixed with this. 

Certainly, a man in his forties can still have women in their twenties hitting on him, and possibly more regularly than twenty years previously. But, what is happening there is that minority of women who like much older men have very few attractive ones available to them. It is a numbers game.

Certainly though, you can have the freedom, confidence and self-awareness. That does depend on health, effort and luck. As you capitalise, the key word is "can".


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I must just suck at communicating. I’ve said repeatedly I have both a suspicion and some good evidence there’s much more to her sexuality than she’s letting on. My guess is that it’s cultural conditioning and even “religious contexts” that convey the message that a “good wife” just doesn’t “do such things” or “act such ways” with her husband. Only “****ty” women do that is the message she’s been taught by others. It’s a damn shame and just maybe that lie can be dispelled from her head.
> 
> So, again, I am NOT pressuring her to change into what “I think women should be like in sex”. I’m wanting to see what *I* can do to give her the encouragement and “safe place” to let her hair down so to speak with her sexuality. There’s a massive difference. Either you don’t see that or you think I’m lying?


I think you are seeing what you want to see because its what YOU want. You can't bring yourself to think that just maybe you are merely making your wife feel inadequate and not good enough.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> Again, Diana is recommending rug sweeping. The wife needs to start caring about her husband's discontent in this area. Sounds like she pulls, perhaps, silent treatment regarding their sexual issues and arguing instead of listening to him and trying to work with him on this. Perhaps because she thinks he's not going anywhere. And that's dangerous. He's here saying he's losing attraction to her, having an issue with finishing, feeling resentful, and has contemplated leaving. Recommending he basically stuff his feelings on this is poor advice.


Nope I am recommending that he loves his wife as she is and not as he wants her to be. I am recommending thankfulness for what he has. I am recommending that he deals with the poison of discontentment that he has allowed in his marriage.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Mr The Other said:


> I feel mixed with this.
> 
> Certainly, a man in his forties can still have women in their twenties hitting on him, and possibly more regularly than twenty years previously. But, what is happening there is that minority of women who like much older men have very few attractive ones available to them. It is a numbers game.
> 
> Certainly though, you can have the freedom, confidence and self-awareness. That does depend on health, effort and luck. As you capitalise, the key word is "can".


Men in their 50's like to think they are still stallions, most aren't.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I think you are seeing what you want to see because its what YOU want. You can't bring yourself to think that just maybe you are merely making your wife feel inadequate and not good enough.




How would you know how he’s making his wife feel since you are NOT his wife? 

Do you read minds? 

I don’t get why OP is being attacked. People are projecting too much. 

Op, my advice would be to find a MC who can help you and your wife. You guys need to communicate and compromise. I’m a woman, and I don’t think you’re asking for porn star style sex. 

Ps. Don’t take some of the criticism to heart. Assess whether it’s useful or not and just forget about those that YOU deem are disrespectful or far out. 

Good luck!!! 

(Btw the idea of listing his preferences as “porn star sex” makes some of you come off as insecure.... just sayin).


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I think you are seeing what you want to see because its what YOU want. You can't bring yourself to think that just maybe you are merely making your wife feel inadequate and not good enough.


Or he's sensing that she's not "present" or willing to be "in the moment" with her husband during sex. Do not underestimate the effect of earlier religious conditioning and how thoughts about what someone used to do, and "escaped from", can mess things up forever. Basically not recover from without deliberate effort, and even then, perhaps not. Not that I have any experience at all with this.

Or, of course, he may simply be looking for an excuse for her not meeting his "needs." But I don't think we need to pile on. I think we should be considering both sides of the equation, and frankly, I think we need to see a lot less of this "Well he/she's just not into sex at all and you can't change that" stuff. I think that's lead to far too many divorces of people who otherwise have been highly compatible and could have had a happy marriage except that nobody knew how to deal with sex issues and the polarization of the sex issue created a chasm too wide to cross. The goal should be to narrow that chasm, and that doesn't mean minimizing the issue by saying one person is simply expecting the unreasonable or impossible.

I pray, I literally pray, that 3 or 4 years down the road I'm posting here as a success story and not a work in progress. This guy is in his 50s; he may have 10 years more to play with than I do. If I'm going to be crazy enough to think things can get better, much better, for my wife and I, I'd like to see the OP granted a bit of slack too.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Ms. Hawaii said:


> How would you know how he’s making his wife feel since you are NOT his wife?
> 
> Do you read minds?
> 
> ...


Intuition and from the things he has said its pretty obvious. No wife in her position could fail to feel not good enough .


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Ms. Hawaii said:


> Diana7 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you are seeing what you want to see because its what YOU want. You can't bring yourself to think that just maybe you are merely making your wife feel inadequate and not good enough.
> ...


One of the few posts that is talking any sense!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> Or he's sensing that she's not "present" or willing to be "in the moment" with her husband during sex. Do not underestimate the effect of earlier religious conditioning and how thoughts about what someone used to do, and "escaped from", can mess things up forever. Basically not recover from without deliberate effort, and even then, perhaps not. Not that I have any experience at all with this.
> 
> Or, of course, he may simply be looking for an excuse for her not meeting his "needs." But I don't think we need to pile on. I think we should be considering both sides of the equation, and frankly, I think we need to see a lot less of this "Well he/she's just not into sex at all and you can't change that" stuff. I think that's lead to far too many divorces of people who otherwise have been highly compatible and could have had a happy marriage except that nobody knew how to deal with sex issues and the polarization of the sex issue created a chasm too wide to cross. The goal should be to narrow that chasm, and that doesn't mean minimizing the issue by saying one person is simply expecting the unreasonable or impossible.
> 
> I pray, I literally pray, that 3 or 4 years down the road I'm posting here as a success story and not a work in progress. This guy is in his 50s; he may have 10 years more to play with than I do. If I'm going to be crazy enough to think things can get better, much better, for my wife and I, I'd like to see the OP granted a bit of slack too.


Unless I missed it I am not sure he has mentioned that she is religious at all? 

I have learnt in life that you can be content and happy and thankful without having to have absolutely everything that you think you must have. His discontentment may just kill that marriage unless he starts dealing with it. 
He claims that he wants to do this for her, for their marriage, but its for him, he is the only one who is discontent.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> Or he's sensing that she's not "present" or willing to be "in the moment" with her husband during sex. Do not underestimate the effect of earlier religious conditioning and how thoughts about what someone used to do, and "escaped from", can mess things up forever. Basically not recover from without deliberate effort, and even then, perhaps not. Not that I have any experience at all with this.
> 
> Or, of course, he may simply be looking for an excuse for her not meeting his "needs." But I don't think we need to pile on. I think we should be considering both sides of the equation, and frankly, I think we need to see a lot less of this "Well he/she's just not into sex at all and you can't change that" stuff. I think that's lead to far too many divorces of people who otherwise have been highly compatible and could have had a happy marriage except that nobody knew how to deal with sex issues and the polarization of the sex issue created a chasm too wide to cross. The goal should be to narrow that chasm, and that doesn't mean minimizing the issue by saying one person is simply expecting the unreasonable or impossible.
> 
> I pray, I literally pray, that 3 or 4 years down the road I'm posting here as a success story and not a work in progress. This guy is in his 50s; he may have 10 years more to play with than I do. If I'm going to be crazy enough to think things can get better, much better, for my wife and I, I'd like to see the OP granted a bit of slack too.


I think she is perfectly happy to have sex with him, they have sex 3 times a week. Just not what HE wants to do. If he isn't careful he will loose that as well.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

95% good life 5% sucky life is a lot like this quote from one of my favorite artists:

"Well, anyway, back then life was going swell and everything was just peachy!
Except, of course, for the undeniable fact that every single morning
My mother would make me a big ol' bowl of sauerkraut for breakfast"

Just how much "sauerkraut" is a guy expected to eat?
Is "sauerkraut" really good enough?
Will she feel better about herself when he stops eating "sauerkraut"? 
I agree that every bowl is just one step closer to the day he stops.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

Mr. Nail said:


> 95% good life 5% sucky life is a lot like this quote from one of my favorite artists:
> 
> "Well, anyway, back then life was going swell and everything was just peachy!
> Except, of course, for the undeniable fact that every single morning
> ...


And he is supposed to be happy about that bowl of "sauerkraut" and eat it with a smile on his face.
Some people can be happy settling for what they are given. Others strive for more. Either way, it's their choice with what they can live with.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Unless I missed it I am not sure he has mentioned that she is religious at all?
> 
> I have learnt in life that you can be content and happy and thankful without having to have absolutely everything that you think you must have. His discontentment may just kill that marriage unless he starts dealing with it.
> He claims that he wants to do this for her, for their marriage, but its for him, he is the only one who is discontent.


He did previously mention, in passing, that it might be a "religious hangup" if I recall correctly. 

I think you're making an assumption without evidence that his wife is actually happy with how things presently are. We don't know what makes her tick. Or tock. We only know that her husband doesn't know. She may be like my wife, believing that, if they've been married x number of years, they're a success story, no need to change anything. That seems to be the type of thinking we often see here, as well. If you've been married for a long time, and the situation has been on-going, why rock the boat? And the focus in such thinking is nearly 100% along the lines of geez guy (or girl), you're getting sex x number of times per week, why are you complaining??? What's your problem? Look at all the people here who have a literally sexless marriage?


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

It does sound a little like porn derangement..

Respectfully OP, how much porn are you consuming?

I think it’s probably pretty common for men to fall into this trap. I think it is unrealistic to expect long term marital sex to be continually breaking new boundaries... shouldn’t we expect peaks and valleys?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@emcsquared, I am going to give you an assignment. Read my extract from your post as if you were someone other than yourself.

And please tell me if you can see any flaws in it, any potential problems?



> What disappoints me most is the low value she ascribes to our sexuality, beyond having some kind of sexual relationship. Specifically, she simply doesn't think our sex life is worthy of much (any?) of her mindspace. Example: for our 20th anniversary, I took her on an extremely nice trip. Weeks ahead of time I gave her a very simple and fun assignment: with a smile, I asked her to think of one sexual act we had never done (there are many easy things in this category) and then on our anniversary trip I'd ask her what she'd come up with and then we'd do it. That way there'd be no pressure and she'd be in full control. When the time came, we're in this beautiful place, I asked her what she had thought of. Answer? Nothing. She hadn't given my request a minute of thought. I'll never forget that moment for the rest of my life. I was crushed on the inside, tho I did my best at hiding my profound disappointment, not wanting to ruin the trip over this. Only recently (years later) did I ask her about this, and she had no answer why she didn't think my request was worth any of her time. This still stings.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

CatholicDad said:


> It does sound a little like porn derangement..
> 
> Respectfully OP, how much porn are you consuming?
> 
> I think it’s probably pretty common for men to fall into this trap. I think it is unrealistic to expect long term marital sex to be continually breaking new boundaries... shouldn’t we expect peaks and valleys?


But you're falling into the same expectations as OP when you bring up "peaks and valleys." Because that defines a sexual dynamic that is likely somewhat adventurous or at the very least changing and not monotonous. 

The porn thing may or may not be an issue. Some become addicted; many do not. My "consumption" was based 100% on the amount of time since that last time. If it had been 4 or 5 days, porn "filled in" until my wife was in the mood. It never, ever, decreased desire for my wife. Funny thing, after our "crisis" when it was discovered my wife's narrative wasn't what she had portrayed, I have not viewed porn even once, and that was almost 9 months ago. There's a curiosity, but no desire. My wife, on the other hand, would rather spend time playing on-line card games than read a book dealing with biblically-inspired marriage principles. She seems unshakably addicted and there's no question that I feel it's robbing and energy from our marriage.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

emcsquared said:


> Please read my post on this I just made where I address this. Also, I NEVER pressure her in bed. EVER. That very idea makes me nauseous.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow. Just wow. I took her on a fabulous trip to celebrate OUR MARRIAGE. Not to pressure her into anything. I treat her like a queen and she’d tell you that to your face. When I asked her to think of some sexual “thing” we hadn’t done before, she reacted with a smile and said “OK!” ENTHUSIASTICALLY. As I said, when the time came, she hadn’t given it another thought. Is that hard-core PRESSURE? Another thing I’m very thankful for - that I’m not married to someone who thinks like you.


Again, just wow. ANY kind of sexual pressure LITERALLY turns me off more than.... I was about to be very crude here but I won’t be. Let’s just say THAT would be my ED.



Absolute B.S. I took her on a great trip to celebrate US and all that we’ve been thru. When she broke my heart with her response I completely hid my reaction and buried it. Why? Because I’m a selfish boor (as some of you have accused me of)? No, because she’d previously stated that she feels more sexually open & adventurous on trips away from the kids and she liked my idea. Obviously not enough to give it another moment’s thought but at the time it was an enthusiastic ok.[/quote]

You asked for opinions. You have had many. You choose to attack and defend rather than open your mind to the possibility that WHAT you have communicated to us is being examined and commented on. I'm sorry that you feel that others don't have a right to their opinion. Perhaps that's part of your issue


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

emcsquared said:


> I'm a guy, early 50's, who many would describe as "having it all": good wife, healthy kids, big income, successful business owner, etc. I should be the happiest guy on the planet but one issue continues to haunt me: our sex life.
> 
> Even there, I have no big reason to complain. While she used to be a refuser/gatekeeper when the kids were younger she's come to understand that sex for me is far more than a simple physical release (which she used to think). For me, sex is the primary means of my emotional connection with her. Perhaps it's a personality defect in me but if our sex life ain't great then my emotional connection to her begins to fade. Happy to report she almost never says no anymore.
> 
> ...


Read YOUR words again. Nowhere did you say that she enthusiastically said yes. Your disappointment was palpable. I agree with you that your communication skills need work. Both with her and with the group as a whole


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> He did previously mention, in passing, that it might be a "religious hangup" if I recall correctly.
> 
> I think you're making an assumption without evidence that his wife is actually happy with how things presently are. We don't know what makes her tick. Or tock. We only know that her husband doesn't know. She may be like my wife, believing that, if they've been married x number of years, they're a success story, no need to change anything. That seems to be the type of thinking we often see here, as well. If you've been married for a long time, and the situation has been on-going, why rock the boat? And the focus in such thinking is nearly 100% along the lines of geez guy (or girl), you're getting sex x number of times per week, why are you complaining??? What's your problem? Look at all the people here who have a literally sexless marriage?


We have had no indication from him that she isn't happy with how things are, however she must be able to tell that he isn't happy with her and that must hurt. Having a spouse who is discontent with them, in whatever way it is, must be pretty depressing. A bit like a wife who is always discontent over their money and possessions because her husband doesn't earn enough. That must hurt as well.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CatholicDad said:


> It does sound a little like porn derangement..
> 
> Respectfully OP, how much porn are you consuming?
> 
> I think it’s probably pretty common for men to fall into this trap. I think it is unrealistic to expect long term marital sex to be continually breaking new boundaries... shouldn’t we expect peaks and valleys?


Porn use does cause a LOT of discontentment and unrealistic expectations for many. That's one reason why I wouldn't use it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator message:-*

Folks, the moderators have had to clean up a threadjack.

Please, don't insult the OP by doing this any more, OK?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

MattMatt said:


> @emcsquared, I am going to give you an assignment. Read my extract from your post as if you were someone other than yourself.
> 
> And please tell me if you can see any flaws in it, any potential problems?


I feel like you want me to say something like, “wow the nerve of this guy to feel disappointed that his wife doesn’t love sexuality like he does”...


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

emcsquared said:


> I feel like you want me to say something like, “wow the nerve of this guy to feel disappointed that his wife doesn’t love sexuality like he does”...


...and you wonder why your sex life isn't what you want it to be? People are trying to offer advice and you go on the attack.
Wishing you the best of luck with this one...perhaps you need to find another website that tells you what you want to hear. This one may not be your cup of tea.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

emcsquared said:


> I feel like you want me to say something like, “wow the nerve of this guy to feel disappointed that his wife doesn’t love sexuality like he does”...


You've already had a million conversations with her. She knows where you're at, and she doesn't want it. At least right now. Whether that's in general or specifically with you is immaterial at this point.

Here's what you get to pick from:

1. accept her, stay in the current relationship under the current relationship agreement, and just make your peace with it.

2. accept her, leave the current relationship and find one more suitable.

3. accept her, stay in the current relationship but attempt to renegotiate the terms of it. Meaning, open it in some fashion.

None of those involve changing her in any way, shape, or form. Be disappointed all you want, but keep it to yourself. 90% of your fights are about sex. That's a ****ty thing to continually fight about. If she asks you what you want by all means tell her. But I get the sense she's not asking you, but you keep telling her. Blood from a stone, man.

You get to control exactly one thing in this world, and only one: yourself.

But I highly, _highly_ suggest you get the hell off her case about it, check your defensiveness at the door about it, and instead focus on your decisions, your actions, and your thoughts. Right now, you don't seem to be highly in control of any of those things. You're not a victim here. You made a choice. You keep making them every day you stay in this marriage.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

CatholicDad said:


> It does sound a little like porn derangement..
> 
> Respectfully OP, how much porn are you consuming?
> 
> I think it’s probably pretty common for men to fall into this trap. I think it is unrealistic to expect long term marital sex to be continually breaking new boundaries... shouldn’t we expect peaks and valleys?


I have not masturbated to porn in a very long time - many many years. There were a few times this year where I looked at porn for a minute or two to get my engine running so I could go to her with more enthusiasm, or so I was thinking at the time. I was in more of a bad headspace than I am now and the thought of more maintenance sex just wasn’t getting me going. I also have medical/hormonal issues and I knew it hurts her terribly if I can’t finish, so getting my engine running helped with that and helped her, so I was thinking, by not having her to have to deal with another time I couldn’t finish. 

I didn’t look at “porn stars”. I looked a legit amateur stuff where the people were not particularly attractive. I soon noticed that I was turned on by the attitude the woman displayed for her man, and not her body. I then realized it wasn’t healthy since I knew my wife isn’t like that (normally), and I‘m only making things worse by looking at that. 

A number of you are now judging me for “forcing” my wife to be like that, and don’t believe me when I say I am horrendously turned off by the remote thought of forcing a woman to do anything. And yet I’ve seen glimpses of an unrestricted sexual attitude in her and had one time recently where my wife blew away by a thousand times anything I’ve ever seen in porn. Shame on me for wanting more of that please. I do NOT expect that every time. Once in a while would be an amazing thing to shake things up and add a lot of excitement to our sex life (yes, I know, for me).


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

aquarius1 said:


> ...and you wonder why your sex life isn't what you want it to be? People are trying to offer advice and you go on the attack.
> Wishing you the best of luck with this one...perhaps you need to find another website that tells you what you want to hear. This one may not be your cup of tea.


You know, I have thought from the start of this thread that lots of people are being hard on op. 

Maybe some people think any kind of sex 3 times a week is ok. But for me, I could and often do have sex 10 times a weak with my Fiancé...

And if I sensed that she was not into it, or not enjoying it, or god forbid was a starfish, you bet I would talk to her about it. 

Further, if it did not change, the relationship would be over. If there was not some health problem or some other problem that she did not let me know about and talk about... Then she would get dumped fairly quickly. In a matter of months or weeks... 

I don't care how get the "Rest" of the marriage is, sex matters. Good sex matters. Maybe some people don't actually know what great sex is all about or something. 

It is important...


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

I can't remember if you've mentioned it yet, but how old are your kids?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I feel like you want me to say something like, “wow the nerve of this guy to feel disappointed that his wife doesn’t love sexuality like he does”...


You cant seem to understand that your wife is different from you, yet you expect her to like and want the same things. I am not sure why that is so hard to grasp for you. You claim that she doesn't love sexuality as you do, no, she loves it as SHE does not as YOU do.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

BluesPower said:


> You know, I have thought from the start of this thread that lots of people are being hard on op.
> 
> Maybe some people think any kind of sex 3 times a week is ok. But for me, I could and often do have sex 10 times a weak with my Fiancé...
> 
> ...


I think that many of us realise that for a couple with a long marriage and children who are in their 50's, 3 times a week is probably well above average. You are not even married yet and I am guessing younger? 
Also we have no idea what their sex ls like, we only have one side after all.
Sad to think that you would abandon your spouse and children because the sex wasn't as you wanted, but your choice I guess.
I would never ever leave my husband over something like this, I love and respect him far too much. My marriage is far too important as are the vows I made.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

wilson said:


> I can't remember if you've mentioned it yet, but how old are your kids?


Our kids will leave for college next year so we will soon be empty nesters. I’m keeping my expectations low that anything meaningful will change for the better.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I have not masturbated to porn in a very long time - many many years. There were a few times this year where I looked at porn for a minute or two to get my engine running so I could go to her with more enthusiasm, or so I was thinking at the time. I was in more of a bad headspace than I am now and the thought of more maintenance sex just wasn’t getting me going. I also have medical/hormonal issues and I knew it hurts her terribly if I can’t finish, so getting my engine running helped with that and helped her, so I was thinking, by not having her to have to deal with another time I couldn’t finish.
> 
> I didn’t look at “porn stars”. I looked a legit amateur stuff where the people were not particularly attractive. I soon noticed that I was turned on by the attitude the woman displayed for her man, and not her body. I then realized it wasn’t healthy since I knew my wife isn’t like that (normally), and I‘m only making things worse by looking at that.
> 
> A number of you are now judging me for “forcing” my wife to be like that, and don’t believe me when I say I am horrendously turned off by the remote thought of forcing a woman to do anything. And yet I’ve seen glimpses of an unrestricted sexual attitude in her and had one time recently where my wife blew away by a thousand times anything I’ve ever seen in porn. Shame on me for wanting more of that please. I do NOT expect that every time. Once in a while would be an amazing thing to shake things up and add a lot of excitement to our sex life (yes, I know, for me).


So you would be ok if your wife regularly took a drug, that is actually illegal in the UK where I live, that is harmful to her mind and body, just so you could have the sort of sex you want? Would you actually risk that?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Marduk said:


> You get to control exactly one thing in this world, and only one: yourself.
> 
> But I highly, _highly_ suggest you get the hell off her case about it, check your defensiveness at the door about it, and instead focus on your decisions, your actions, and your thoughts. Right now, you don't seem to be highly in control of any of those things. You're not a victim here. You made a choice. You keep making them every day you stay in this marriage.


I fully agree and I’ve completely stopped talking to her about it at all. That’s why I’m here! I was thinking / hoping there was something in ME that could change that just maybe (without talking to her about it) would allow her the freedom to let her hair down a tad more on the wild side, again, because I think there is that in her, albeit buried by cultural indoctrinations. I know full well that may never happen. Sad, but I’d accept that. I just wanted to see if there’s anything in ME that’s boxing her in.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> You asked for opinions. You have had many. You choose to attack and defend rather than open your mind to the possibility that WHAT you have communicated to us is being examined and commented on. I'm sorry that you feel that others don't have a right to their opinion. Perhaps that's part of your issue


I let the attacks on me here get to me and for that I apologize. Thank you for your time although i do disagree with you. I should have done that more diplomatically. I’m a passionate person by nature. Sometimes that’s a good thing, other times it’s not....


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> Our kids will leave for college next year so we will soon be empty nesters. I’m keeping my expectations low that anything meaningful will change for the better.


Congratulations! It'll be exciting and fun sending them off.

I would expect an empty house to have some positive effect. My wife was always concerned that the kids would hear. Once they were out of the house, it made a difference. Also, your day-to-day life will likely be more relaxed and less stressful, so she may have less on her mind that can distract her. 

Because of the timing, I would recommend you try to put this physical stuff out of your mind for now. The next 8(?) months or so are going to have a lot of emotional ups and downs anyway for her with the kids moving out. Trying to tackle this issue now is going to come with a lot of extra complications that may impede progress. Use this time to maintain what you have and build up your emotional connection so you have a solid foundation come next year.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> I fully agree and I’ve completely stopped talking to her about it at all. That’s why I’m here! I was thinking / hoping there was something in ME that could change that just maybe (without talking to her about it) would allow her the freedom to let her hair down a tad more on the wild side, again, because I think there is that in her, albeit buried by cultural indoctrinations. I know full well that may never happen. Sad, but I’d accept that. I just wanted to see if there’s anything in ME that’s boxing her in.


You see, you are again assuming that she wants more, but its 'buried by cultural indoctrinations'. I realise that is what you are hoping, but why cant you accept that she isn'tyou and may not want what you do. She may just like sex the way you do it now, why is that so hard for you to believe or accept?


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

wilson said:


> Congratulations! It'll be exciting and fun sending them off.
> 
> I would expect an empty house to have some positive effect. My wife was always concerned that the kids would hear. Once they were out of the house, it made a difference. Also, your day-to-day life will likely be more relaxed and less stressful, so she may have less on her mind that can distract her.
> 
> Because of the timing, I would recommend you try to put this physical stuff out of your mind for now. The next 8(?) months or so are going to have a lot of emotional ups and downs anyway for her with the kids moving out. Trying to tackle this issue now is going to come with a lot of extra complications that may impede progress. Use this time to maintain what you have and build up your emotional connection so you have a solid foundation come next year.


That’s great advice - thank you! I still want to keep my expectations low. That way, assuming there’s no change, I won’t be DISCONTENT if nothing changes (see Diana - I’m learning!).


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> I fully agree and I’ve completely stopped talking to her about it at all. That’s why I’m here! I was thinking / hoping there was something in ME that could change that just maybe (without talking to her about it) would allow her the freedom to let her hair down a tad more on the wild side, again, because I think there is that in her, albeit buried by cultural indoctrinations. I know full well that may never happen. Sad, but I’d accept that. I just wanted to see if there’s anything in ME that’s boxing her in.


Which explains why you're not engaging with those of us who say "tough luck, sorry to hear about it, but them's the breaks".

That's OK, I understand why. You still think that there is a sexual wildebeast hiding under you wife's demure skin. I hope you're right. I suspect that you're wrong.


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## Marduk (Jul 16, 2010)

emcsquared said:


> I fully agree and I’ve completely stopped talking to her about it at all. That’s why I’m here! I was thinking / hoping there was something in ME that could change that just maybe (without talking to her about it) would allow her the freedom to let her hair down a tad more on the wild side, again, because I think there is that in her, albeit buried by cultural indoctrinations. I know full well that may never happen. Sad, but I’d accept that. I just wanted to see if there’s anything in ME that’s boxing her in.


She will be free to be who she is and who she wants to be when you stop focusing on her. She may not want to shed her culture. And if you love her, you must love her for who she is and not who she could be, if she would be who you wanted her to be.

I think what may be boxing her in is exactly what you want her to be. 

If I push my wife towards something, she naturally resists. She's rebellious by nature, independent, strong-willed. She will not be controlled, she will not be owned. Just the other day, she said to me "you're mine." And I said to her, "and you're mine." To which she said "no, I'm not, I'm mine. But you're also mine." And I laughed and let it go.

Later that night, as we fell asleep, in a very quiet voice, she said "I'm yours, you know that, right?" and I held her and fell asleep.

Push, and she pushes back. Pull, and she pulls back. Let go... and she remembers what she really wants, and she happily eventually partners up with me.

As for sex, I've often found the following approach works best. 

One, be at your best. Seek self-perfection in all aspects of your life. If not that, at least excessive self-acceptance. Be your best and be happy being who you are! Life is for living. Choose to be happy and to strive to grow.

Two, create the opportunity for sex, and the kind of sex you want. Meaning, be ready! Be clear on what you want if she asks. Have everything you want to have happen ready to happen. Create time for it, space for it. 

Three, let go. Sex is literally an infinite possibility space. If she says no to one thing, be open to another. Don't be judgmental - never, ever judge what she wants or doesn't want. I have often been amazed at what someone would say no to and ask for later - be that hours later, weeks later, months or even years later! Simply by being the guy that doesn't judge her.

Four, if it's just not working for you and never will, then you gotta just bail. A life unlived is a life wasted. You only get one. If you need to let your freak flag fly proudly, and it just isn't gonna happen with her, then you have to call the ball here and let it happen with someone that wouldn't just accept you - but someone that would celebrate it.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Do you think she might heat up if frequency was reduced? Wouldn’t it help you finish quicker versus any need for porn? This seems like a natural and simple solution. 

It sounds like sex is a little too easy and available... leads to boredom I think.

The porn did mess with your head I think... you started comparing. Porn destroys men and marriage. Being extremely busy is great for marriage. When you’ve truly longed for your wife for a week or two, it’s explosive when you reunite. Guys masturbating to porn never truly “long” and never truly explode 😉


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

While I am in favor of less sauerkraut, I'm not sure that less eating is the best way to learn to enjoy it.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

emcsquared said:


> I feel like you want me to say something like, “wow the nerve of this guy to feel disappointed that his wife doesn’t love sexuality like he does”...


Not at all.

What you did was you changed the event for her. It went from being a special, magical vacation event into a test for her. 

See, the problem with tests is that people automatically think of them as being pass or fail.

Rather than put herself into the position of potentially failing, she took the defensive stance of doing nothing at all. 

She might also have thought: "Damn! all he wants to do is to get me to that fantastic location in order to **** me!"

Some men/women would react well to that approach, but some don't. 

I think your wife felt forced, that you were playing a mindgame (even if you didn't think you were) and that she resented the approach.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

emcsquared said:


> That’s great advice - thank you! I still want to keep my expectations low. That way, assuming there’s no change, I won’t be DISCONTENT if nothing changes (see Diana - I’m learning!).


Glad to hear it, but rather than just keeping your expectations low so you wont be discontent, be proactive in being content and thankful for what you DO have in your wife and your marriage and life. :grin2:

OH and, be more aware of praising you wife and thanking her and also showing your appreciation for her. In sex as well.


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

emcsquared said:


> I have not masturbated to porn in a very long time - many many years. There were a few times this year where I looked at porn for a minute or two to get my engine running so I could go to her with more enthusiasm, or so I was thinking at the time. I was in more of a bad headspace than I am now and the thought of more maintenance sex just wasn’t getting me going. I also have medical/hormonal issues and I knew it hurts her terribly if I can’t finish, so getting my engine running helped with that and helped her, so I was thinking, by not having her to have to deal with another time I couldn’t finish.
> 
> I didn’t look at “porn stars”. I looked a legit amateur stuff where the people were not particularly attractive. I soon noticed that I was turned on by the attitude the woman displayed for her man, and not her body. I then realized it wasn’t healthy since I knew my wife isn’t like that (normally), and I‘m only making things worse by looking at that.
> 
> A number of you are now judging me for “forcing” my wife to be like that, and don’t believe me when I say I am horrendously turned off by the remote thought of forcing a woman to do anything. And yet I’ve seen glimpses of an unrestricted sexual attitude in her and had one time recently where my wife blew away by a thousand times anything I’ve ever seen in porn. Shame on me for wanting more of that please. I do NOT expect that every time. Once in a while would be an amazing thing to shake things up and add a lot of excitement to our sex life (yes, I know, for me).


This is more sympathetic that many posts come across. Essentially, you want something that is stereotypically feminine, to feel desired. The problem is you cannot nag her into feeling desired; you have the choice of a patient exploration about how she would spontaneously express those feelings to you, or accept it won't happen and suck it up.

Trying to make her different is not an option.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> I would never ever leave my husband over something like this, I love and respect him far too much. My marriage is far too important as are the vows I made.



Would you stay if he just decided one day he couldn't be bothered with sex anymore?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

wilson said:


> I would expect an empty house to have some positive effect.



My wife took the chance to turn the sex tap off... :laugh:


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> wilson said:
> 
> 
> > I would expect an empty house to have some positive effect.
> ...


That sucks. Sorry


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> I think that many of us realise that for a couple with a long marriage and children who are in their 50's, 3 times a week is probably well above average. You are not even married yet and I am guessing younger?
> Also we have no idea what their sex ls like, we only have one side after all.
> Sad to think that you would abandon your spouse and children because the sex wasn't as you wanted, but your choice I guess.
> I would never ever leave my husband over something like this, I love and respect him far too much. My marriage is far too important as are the vows I made.


Yeah, nope... It was like this in my long term marriage. 

And, this relationship is newer, we are not married yet. 

And you are giving the same excuses as others. And I give the same answers as always. 

I don't live like that, sex is important to me, I make sex a priority. 

And to top it off, I think I am older than you, unless you are well past 60....


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Numb26 said:


> That sucks. Sorry


Thanks... but we have a complicated story/history. Still, didn't expect that! :smile2:


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, what have we learned? Your wife currently has sex with you around 3 times a week. She doesn't like to talk about sex. You believe she's harboring a sexual beast that she is unwilling to unleash under normal circumstances. She is not adverse to smoking weed. You had a phenomenal time the one time you two got stoned together.

What if you picked up some weed and during an opportune time (the kids are out of the house and you two aren't particularly busy at the moment) you casually mention that you are going to partake to de-stress from the week and proceed to your appointed place for partaking (hint - not the bedroom). Do NOT invite her. Let her come to you. She may not the first time (or, ever); but, the allure might draw her in under her own power. If the desired results are achieved, do NOT bring it up to her afterwards. She needs to normalize this in her mind under her own steam.

It's a long-shot - what do you have to lose?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> It's a long-shot - what do you have to lose?



Very long shot... :grin2:


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> What if you picked up some weed and during an opportune time (the kids are out of the house and you two aren't particularly busy at the moment) you casually mention that you are going to partake to de-stress from the week and proceed to your appointed place for partaking (hint - not the bedroom). Do NOT invite her. Let her come to you. She may not the first time (or, ever); but, the allure might draw her in under her own power. If the desired results are achieved, do NOT bring it up to her afterwards. She needs to normalize this in her mind under her own steam.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a long-shot - what do you have to lose?



^^^THIS

My wife tends to summarily reject something I want to do but when I say ok and then head out solo... all of a sudden she doesn’t want to get left out. Think it goes back to the control-thing someone mentioned earlier. Going to the gym is the perfect example. Begged her to go. At first no then begrudgingly but did her own thing. Said I want work out WITH you not just give you a ride to the gym and then dropped it. Next week she was asking it she could go with me and hung with me 90% of the workout.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

aaarghdub said:


> Next week she was asking it she could go with me and hung with me 90% of the workout.



I'm surprised she falls for it so easily... :laugh:


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

In Absentia said:


> My wife took the chance to turn the sex tap off... :laugh:


Hopefully that doesn't happen here, but if it does, at least the timing is more appropriate to get into the big discussions and deal with the consequences once the kids are out of the house.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

wilson said:


> Hopefully that doesn't happen here, but if it does, at least the timing is more appropriate to get into the big discussions and deal with the consequences once the kids are out of the house.


yes, absolutely... better than what we did... upset the little one, who ended up in therapy...


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## Kammy (Dec 5, 2017)

OP, I'm sorry that people are giving you so much flack. I definitely see some projection from a few posters but people have the right to their opinions right? 
I was in a 7 year relationship that was basically sexless for the last year and a half and very unenthusiastic sex for 3 years before that. I know how it feels to be frustrated, unsatisfied and feel inadequate sexually. I don't see any part of your post as coming off as entitled, you are seeking help and being more kind than I would to the posters coming at you with torches  You are entitled to your wants and needs, no one should make you feel wrong for that. 

I am similar to your wife as in I'm not very vocal in the bedroom and I know my partner wants more, he has gently suggested it several times. I try but it's difficult for me and he understands but he still nudges me every now and then. When I have a few drinks, I am WAY more uninhibited and we usually have much wilder sex. My partner always tells me after that it was really great because I was communicating with him and that makes it more enjoyable. I do get embarrassed after, so I kind of understand how your wife felt, but I'm happy that I'm able to let that out sometimes. His encouragement will make me try harder as I am the kind of sexual partner who would do most anything to satisfy my man and he makes me feel more confident sexually.

The way you describe telling her about your feelings doesn't seem too demanding, I do think she may be too sexually repressed and embarrassed to change. I do think you should continue to try and encourage her more and don't give up. I think the pot brownie is a great idea (as long as it's not too much), hopefully she may be open to it. When you're a little embarrassed sexually, like myself, it is incredibly difficult to come out of your shell but it is possible. I'm 39 and I just started having great sex for the first time in my life 4 years ago, so I think it is possible to change.


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## emcsquared (Dec 2, 2019)

Blondilocks said:


> So, what have we learned? Your wife currently has sex with you around 3 times a week. She doesn't like to talk about sex. You believe she's harboring a sexual beast that she is unwilling to unleash under normal circumstances. She is not adverse to smoking weed. You had a phenomenal time the one time you two got stoned together.
> 
> What if you picked up some weed and during an opportune time (the kids are out of the house and you two aren't particularly busy at the moment) you casually mention that you are going to partake to de-stress from the week and proceed to your appointed place for partaking (hint - not the bedroom). Do NOT invite her. Let her come to you. She may not the first time (or, ever); but, the allure might draw her in under her own power. If the desired results are achieved, do NOT bring it up to her afterwards. She needs to normalize this in her mind under her own steam.
> 
> It's a long-shot - what do you have to lose?


I like it. Thanks!


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

By not making a big deal out of it (if it should happen) will tell your wife that she is not expected to perform at that level every time you have sex. She will feel more comfortable to be herself rather than a new, improved version. She may indeed become a new, improved version; but, it won't be because you want her to be. No one likes to feel that they are not good enough as they are.


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