# Opinions Please



## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

Married 30 years.
Her brief infidelity 23 years ago.
Me none.
Good marriage since.
I am in great shape and treat her well.

She's in AA and goes to meetings.
She is popular there and has made a few good female friends that she goes to coffee after the meetings with - I know where she is as I track her phone. It's always the same diner and she receives texts from the women about it which I see whenever I want - shared account.

There are a couple of men there who are either divorced or widowed who she talks to at the meetings. They feel comfortable talking about their love lives with her. She said because she is married (and she talks about me in glowing terms regularly) that she is "safe" for them to talk about these issues with her. They have never joined her for coffee after and she does not text or speak to them outside of the meetings. i monitor the phone bill and she has no burner phone or hidden accounts. I've learned from TAM. 

I of course, don't like it cause I've been reading TAM for a while and see where these "friendships" could end up. We agreed to no OSF, she, with much hesitation, but agreed. In the past she has had close gay friends but they ended up interfering in the marriage... yes gay guys get jealous of husbands and try and mess with the wife's head.

Do I consider these men "friends". Are they a threat? Does she have crap for boundaries?

I have not yet told her that I am uncomfortable with these relationships. My concerns are that over time, as they get closer one of them is going to make his play such as "i broke up with my GF and am so upset, could you have coffee with me so I can discuss it with you?"..... so on and so forth the friendship develops slowly.

I do think that these guys may be developing their long game and she is either being quite naive or just enjoys the attention. I don't think she is actively seeking more from them. I'm not sure of their intentions. I have met them once or twice. They seem to be nice guys and I am not interested in becoming their friends.

And yes, she still drinks from time to time, much to my chagrin.

Opinions please. Is it time to drop the hammer on something I cannot confirm since I am not at these meetings nor do I want to be there. A bunch of dysfunctional people complaining about their miserable lives. Yuck.


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## OnTheFly (Mar 12, 2015)

I thought AA was group talk therapy. How are these guys pulling her aside to talk about their issues?


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

OnTheFly said:


> I thought AA was group talk therapy. How are these guys pulling her aside to talk about their issues?


They either sit next to her, or they talk either just before or after in the meeting room.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

I reduce this issue in the most simplest terms possible. If you are not comfortable with her interactions with these other men, you need to let her know and she should end the contact. She should comply willingly, assuming that she is committed to both the marriage and you. To me this is non negotiable, if for no other reason than her previous infidelity. She is just going to have to figure out how to go through AA without interacting with these men, period.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

If she still drinks, even occasionally, why should she attend AA meetings? Actually, I'm willing to accept there are reasons, just curious.

Are there meetings for AA and their spouses? If there are, could you meet them, there?

It could be that your wife is just one of those people everyone feels comfortable with telling their innermost secrets. Is that possible?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

What was her brief infidelity 23 years ago? How did it start, what happened, how did you find out, how long did it go on for, in your home or not, how did it end, what did she say when it was discovered etc ?

This will help with advice on your current situation.


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

MattMatt said:


> If she still drinks, even occasionally, why should she attend AA meetings? Actually, I'm willing to accept there are reasons, just curious.
> 
> Are there meetings for AA and their spouses? If there are, could you meet them, there?
> 
> It could be that your wife is just one of those people everyone feels comfortable with telling their innermost secrets. Is that possible?


I have a feeling many in AA still drink. I can smell it in the room.
I have attended several meetings and don't like how I feel in the rooms. I am empathetic and can "feel" the sickness. Yuck.

And yes, she is one of those people that other's open up to. In her line of work she has to motivate people to improve themselves and discussing difficult situations happens often.

I am concerned but don't want to be "controlling" especially of something I cannot confirm. Ive been thinking of having a discussion of "what if they ask you for coffee".. But she can easily lie about it. It's beyond my ability to monitor completely or confirm unless I stalk her after the meetings... I've considered it but decided it was way too creepy.


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> I reduce this issue in the most simplest terms possible. If you are not comfortable with her interactions with these other men, you need to let her know and she should end the contact. She should comply willingly, assuming that she is committed to both the marriage and you. To me this is non negotiable, if for no other reason than her previous infidelity. She is just going to have to figure out how to go through AA without interacting with these men, period.


I agree, just cannot confirm she complies. Thats the problem... or am I just being insecure?


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

manfromlamancha said:


> What was her brief infidelity 23 years ago? How did it start, what happened, how did you find out, how long did it go on for, in your home or not, how did it end, what did she say when it was discovered etc ?
> 
> This will help with advice on your current situation.


An employee of ours (we work together).
A trusted friend informed me that something was going on and they were meeting for lunch. They had been working late of a project after everyone else went home, including me. I waited across the street from the diner and saw them her walk in, then him. I walked in after a few minutes of disbelief and confronted them as they sat in a booth holding hands. I said nothing as I slammed my wedding band on the table between them and walked out. When they returned to the office, I confronted him and fired his ass on the spot. Then told her to find an apartment and move out. Over the next few weeks we reconciled and it's been good ever since... except for a couple of gay relationships which have since ended upon my insistence.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

IMO, since there is a history of infidelity, you have the right to be a lot more protective of your marriage and the necessity of being extremely cautious and vigilant! Yes, it may have been 23 years ago, but she obviously showed that she is more than capable of cheating

It would be irresponsible and foolish for you NOT TO be extremely vigilant.

My advice. Talk to her and have a conversation about your feelings and thoughts on this topic.


I would then go and sit outside the diner that she goes to after a AA meeting and see who she is there with.

Trust but verify!


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

Kamstel said:


> IMO, since there is a history of infidelity, you have the right to be a lot more protective of your marriage and the necessity of being extremely cautious and vigilant! Yes, it may have been 23 years ago, but she obviously showed that she is more than capable of cheating
> 
> It would be irresponsible and foolish for you NOT TO be extremely vigilant.
> 
> ...


I dont want to stalk her. It just feels insecure and controlling - very co-dependent. Also the girls all text before and after the coffee so I am pretty sure it's them there.

When she first started AA, one of these men showed her a book for her to give to me about treating your wife like a Goddess. I became enraged that a man would do that inferring that I do not treat her right so she already knows that I do not like this guy.

Another thing - I have a friend who was a big AA member, rising through the ranks after years there and he quit saying it was bull****, that everyone drank and it ends up being one big hookup joint with everyone doing everyone else. He told me that every meeting was different but the ones he attended were "f-ckfests". He had advised me to "get her out of there". But it seems to have helped her cut way down on the drinking and her crappy behaviors in general.


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## Txquail (Feb 21, 2018)

If it makes you uncomfortable... make her stop associating with those men. You cas n go to the meetings with her. If she balks... bring up her cheating history. She has no right to say anything as she lost that right when she became a cheater.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

fwiw - she is a serial cheat. Gay relationships are still infidelity. Most likely she will get together with one of these dudes.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Does she only talk to these guys at the meetings, where men and women are present? ( nothing outside of the meetings?)


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

stillfightingforus said:


> Does she only talk to these guys at the meetings, where men and women are present? ( nothing outside of the meetings?)


Apparently... so far


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## Andy1001 (Jun 29, 2016)

Your wife is an alcoholic who hasn’t stopped drinking even while attending AA meetings.
An alcoholic either drinks or doesn’t,there is no grey area.
So she is not “doing well” at these meetings.
Alcoholics become very clever at hiding their drinking and she is getting advice from experts at this stage.Tracking her phone is a fools errand,how do you know she even has it on her.
As to guys hitting on her, if she goes on a bender who knows where she will end up or who with.


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## Kamstel (Apr 25, 2018)

I’m not suggesting you follow her every where she goes.im suggesting you go and check ot the post meeting coffee hour.

I believe it is prudient!

After all, you did say that your friend described it as a place where everyone hooks up and can be a duck fest!


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## dreamer2017 (Nov 7, 2017)

Dear Easy,

I know this is a hard time for you. I would trust your heart because your wife has been known to engage in an affair. I would consider attending the meetings with her (if allowed) to observe the reactions of your wife and her friends.

Dreamer


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Easydoesit said:


> An employee of ours (we work together).
> A trusted friend informed me that something was going on and they were meeting for lunch. They had been working late of a project after everyone else went home, including me. I waited across the street from the diner and saw them her walk in, then him. I walked in after a few minutes of disbelief and confronted them as they sat in a booth holding hands. I said nothing as I slammed my wedding band on the table between them and walked out. When they returned to the office, I confronted him and fired his ass on the spot. Then told her to find an apartment and move out. Over the next few weeks we reconciled and it's been good ever since... except for a couple of gay relationships which have since ended upon my insistence.


How long had it been going on ? Did it get physical ? What was her reasons for doing it ?


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Easydoesit said:


> Apparently... so far


How often are the meetings?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

There is no need to chat with men at these meetings. She needs to go to the meeting, do her work, and either go home or make sure her "meeting after the meeting" time is female only if possible. BOUNDARIES.

I don't think your wife is cheating or having a gay affair (what a stupid thought). But she is there to LEARN. 

I'd make your feelings clear.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Why do they feel comfortable talking about their private love lives with her during a quick visiting time right after a class? How have they become this comfortable? What signals is she giving them that they think it's ok to do so?

IRL, I have a personality that people tend to think they can talk about anything with me. 
When men bring up stuff that is sexual, I shut them down, letting them know that out of respect for my husband I don't have those types of conversations with men. They are embarrassed when I say it, but it stops it immediately. She should be doing the same, especially with her history. Plus, out of respect for you. You mention that she had trouble with more than one of her gay friends causing problems. It sounds like she struggles with keeping boundaries with her male acquaintances. That's worrisome.

I think it's foolish that you haven't taken a ride by the diner to see who she is out with. People save men in their phones under women's names all the time. Plus, there are plenty of women that are happy to help their friends cheat. I also think it is foolish that you feel certain she doesn't have a burner phone...I'm fairly sure most spouses don't know where their cheating spouses keep the burner phone.

Something has your radar going off, don't ignore it.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

If you haven't read "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass, get it and both of you read it.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

We have some things in common; Married 30 years, WW cheated years ago, and I used to go to AA meetings after my rehab. So, I know what AA meetings are supposed to be about.

Andy1001 is right. If she's drinking at all, then AA is not working. The mantra they preach is not to reduce drinking, it's to stop drinking. Also, outside fraternization is discouraged. Frankly, these aren't the kind of people to hang out with because it's such a risk. So, if I were in your shoes I'd do the following:

I'd tell her that if she chooses to keep drinking then she doesn't need to attend the meetings.

If she completely stops and wants to continue to attend, then you expect her to have no before and after interactions with any of the members. She can find friends elsewhere - as long as long as they're not OSF.

Is that you being controlling? Perhaps. But she's the one that destroyed the trust you once had and she needs to accept the realigned marital boundaries that go along with that. It doesn't matter if she cheated 25 years ago or one year ago. That's just the way it works. You have every right to expect her to comply with those boundaries after giving her the gift of a second chance.


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

"Controlling" indeed Easy. You may as well face it Dawg, you're scared shytless of her. Men who think the way you do and look the other way are called betrayed husbands or a not so kind, cuckold. My take is if she's drinking and going to AA, she's doing it to get a break from you while she prowls the landscape like a she lion. In short, she ain't going to AA for the meetings. She's going for the comradery. It wouldn't surprise me if you find her leaving a meeting holding hands with another alky.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

So....There is 2 guys trying for the affair role here. Jack....And Chad! lol

I agree with everyone here that she is off the wagon and is lying to you and herself. (jack daniels)

Chad is the "poor" soul that only your wife understands and has this "kindred-ship" that is so trusting and heartfelt...See where I am going here. (emotional affair)

Your wife has NO boundaries. If she is still drinking, they are gone. Also, her respect for the marriage is very low. She needs to be made clearly aware of this. You were cheated before and you have reached your limit. Time to backbone up and start laying the law. Unfortunately, drunks cannot be trusted, and a cheating drunk well... You get the point.

She needs a new therapy for her drinking. This one AIN'T it. And she needs to seriously re-evaluate her role in this marriage. Whether she gets into IC or she finds God, she has to do something. You have put up with it enough.


My wife exhibited the same behaviors (minus the drinking). She and her co-worker started talking, spending time getting coffee and lunch together. Started "helping" him when he had a death in the family and started getting depressed. She was labeled his working wife. See where I'm going here...

It wasn't until I had got a apartment in a different city going and arranged to have my stuff removed from the household that she had her "eureka" moment. You may have to do something similar.


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## BluesPower (Mar 27, 2018)

The Middleman said:


> I reduce this issue in the most simplest terms possible. If you are not comfortable with her interactions with these other men, you need to let her know and she should end the contact. She should comply willingly, assuming that she is committed to both the marriage and you. To me this is non negotiable, if for no other reason than her previous infidelity. She is just going to have to figure out how to go through AA without interacting with these men, period.


This, a thousand times this...

Bottom line, "she reluctantly agreed". No sir, you don't get to reluctantly agree about any crap like this, ever. 23 years, 23 day, whatever...

You still don't trust her after 23 years, do you still want to be with her? She obviously has not really made you feel safe in the marriage.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

People are bringing up good points here! 

My first thought was if she is just talking to them at the meeting in a large group with men, women and everyone else, than that's fine. I guess I didn't read where they were having after-meetings in the initial thread. Yeah, that would be a no go for me. The standard group therapy, while class is in session, talk away. Anything above and beyond that as 'friends' mixed with alcoholics is not good.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Easydoesit said:


> next few weeks we reconciled and it's been good ever since... *except for a couple of gay relationships which have since ended upon my insistence.*





personofinterest said:


> I don't think your wife is cheating or having a gay affair (what a stupid thought). But she is there to LEARN.


In case you missed it....

Apparently, this woman can't stop drinking or screwing around. And, apparently, she will do one or both with either gender.

Also, throwing in with the others who have AA experience. A) the program has an extremely high recidivism rate and B) yeah, it's very common for folks in the program to have sexual relationships with others who are also in the program, regardless of marital status.


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## Taxman (Dec 21, 2016)

She can go to all of the AA meetings she wants, however given that you have difficulty with her socializing after, the ruling is that she goes home immediately instead of out for coffee with the girls. I would tell her that I will randomly be checking after the meetings, so there is no telling when I would show up. This worked for one of my clients, and he decided that he would lull her into complacency and see where that went.

Unfortunately, he randomly showed up when she was with AP and they were passionate with one another at a coffee shop around the corner from the meeting (it appears to have been a weight support group). He got aggressive, but apparently the AP was significantly more aggressive. He ended up beaten severely. He ended up suing his wife and her new BF. He won both the divorce (she was the higher income earner, and because he was assaulted and hurt, she was left in a position of paying him alimony and damages.) and the court case. Of course the BF was really aggressive, and when he lost the lawsuit, he wanted to finish the job. He was taken into custody for threatening. The relationship with the BF never came to fruition, and my client now has a decided limp. He also has a brand new wife. His ex continues going to meetings, and according to the ex husband, hooks up regularly.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

But you are being controlling.

It's because she isn't earning your trust back. She's not!

I'm left wondering what her purpose is - for going to AA meetings when she's still intending to drink?

How long has she been drinking? How long going to meetings? Has she ever done the step work with a sponsor?


Does she tell her people in the group that she still drinks? Or is she dishonest with them?


If she's not honest with you and then then she's just a blatant liar with her words and actions.

You? You need to tell her what you want! Be honest! If she doesn't wish to comply then consider leaving her. Any marriage based on lies will never stand a chance of being healthy.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

Coming from a person with over five years of sobriety here and still attends AA, I think I can offer some experience. Your wife is absolutely being hit on. AA is not group therapy or class. People don't go there to talk about their problems. Unfortunately, there are some sick people,both men and women, and entire groups that become sick. A sign of a healthy group is not a whole lot of interaction between the genders especially early in recovery, and AA absolutely preaches abstinence only recovery. There is no cutting back. So the fact that no one has called her out about her drinking and interaction with the men after the meeting tells me she isn't part. of a healthy group. I would strongly suggest she attend women's only meetings for a long time. Fwiw, I just left the funeral for a woman who thought she could drink and go to meetings. Her liver didn't agree with her. Good luck to both of you.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Congrats Ms. GP. Keep up the good work. I will pray for you.


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## SentHereForAReason (Oct 25, 2017)

Ms. GP said:


> Coming from a person with over five years of sobriety here and still attends AA, I think I can offer some experience. Your wife is absolutely being hit on. AA is not group therapy or class. People don't go there to talk about their problems. Unfortunately, there are some sick people,both men and women, and entire groups that become sick. A sign of a healthy group is not a whole lot of interaction between the genders especially early in recovery, and AA absolutely preaches abstinence only recovery. There is no cutting back. So the fact that no one has called her out about her drinking and interaction with the men after the meeting tells me she isn't part. of a healthy group. I would strongly suggest she attend women's only meetings for a long time. Fwiw, I just left the funeral for a woman who thought she could drink and go to meetings. Her liver didn't agree with her. Good luck to both of you.


And there you have it. We can speculate as much as we want but coming from someone that has been there, this should be what you really look at.

Thanks for weighing in Ms. GP!


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

Not all people that attend AA meetings have the same reason to attend. Some are court appointed,some are required by their work through an EAP to attend a certain number of meetings per week and some are just there unfortunately to prey on others. That is one of the reasons why it is good to find a well respected and long term member of the same sex as a sponsor. As for these men that are sharing their personal life with your wife,and if they have no ulterior motive,then they would be better suited to attend men only meetings where that type of sharing isn't uncommon. At the same time,your wife can also check if there are women only meetings in your area,and if not maybe consider starting one up. The meetings that you have attended are open meetings and can include a variety of people,including newcomers and many non-alcoholics. I don't think you said how long your wife has been attending AA and whether or not she attends only open meetings as opposed to closed meetings.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

No man has ever told a women he's gay to get close to her and end up in her pants.............Right?!
OP there's a reason you're here.....you feel it. We do.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Easydoesit said:


> I dont want to stalk her. It just feels insecure and controlling - very co-dependent. Also the girls all text before and after the coffee so I am pretty sure it's them there.
> 
> When she first started AA, one of these men showed her a book for her to give to me about treating your wife like a Goddess. I became enraged that a man would do that inferring that I do not treat her right so she already knows that I do not like this guy.
> 
> Another thing - I have a friend who was a big AA member, rising through the ranks after years there and he quit saying it was bull****, that everyone drank and it ends up being one big hookup joint with everyone doing everyone else. He told me that every meeting was different but the ones he attended were "f-ckfests". He had advised me to "get her out of there". But it seems to have helped her cut way down on the drinking and her crappy behaviors in general.


First off, nothing you are doing is insecure or controlling. As a husband of a woman who has already cheated on you once in the marriage, she should not be doing anything to cause you stress when it comes to outside friendships. 

I am a recovering alcoholic and I lead an AA men's group twice a week. I stopped facilitating co-ed AA groups just for the reasons you have brought up in this post. When you get a group of codependent, addictive-personality men and women together in a group bad things are bound to happen. In my early days of attending AA I saw many hookups going on between group members. There are some AA groups that are very much what your friend describes. I personally do not let these shenanigans go on in my groups, but I have heard of groups being shut down for bad behavior. 

The way I see it, you already extended grace to your wife once 23 years ago, and now she flaunts these male friendships in your face and dares you to do something about it. Not cool. So not cool.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

Congrats .45 on your hard work. I will continue praying for you.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> No man has ever told a women he's gay to get close to her and end up in her pants.............Right?!
> OP there's a reason you're here.....you feel it. We do.


*Not unless she's into a bi-MMF relationship, getting her male fix that way!*


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## Steve2.0 (Dec 11, 2017)

StillSearching said:


> No man has ever told a women he's gay to get close to her and end up in her pants.............Right?!
> OP there's a reason you're here.....you feel it. We do.


It is the perfect line to spark the _"Ill convert him straight with mind blowing sex"_ thoughts in her head....


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

The bottom line is - your wife is lying. She is drinking and going to meetings. 

While everyone must start somewhere to get sober - if a person doesn't stay sober long term then they aren't working the steps.

If your wife isn't at meetings to do the action part of the program then why does she go? Ask her that!


And since she's not willingly handing you peace of mind - it's time to rethink why you want to be married to a gal who isn't trustworthy.

She's not earned your trust. She has no right to expect you to believe a word she says.

Has she considered lock down detox and rehab?


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> Congrats .45 on your hard work. I will continue praying for you.


Thank you. I've been at it so long it's a lifestyle.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

i don't think you have to stalk her at all, i would just remind her that you will not put up with the disrespectfulness of her infidelity ever again and if she does not like those rules she can move as you will ...no second chances period. One smell of cheating and she can back her bags......then as icing on the cake in front of her, i would get on Match.com or the like (not for real but to prove a point and start a profile) this way she gets the point that you are not afraid to move on for good.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She's disrespecting you and you know it.

Get a boundary. Decide on that. Be firm with yourself what a healthy marriage looks like for you. If that boundary is being crossed - divorce her!

Why should you have to bend and bow down to her idiotic ways?

Set the standard and get rid of her if it isn't working for YOU!

Life is too short to try and force anyone to be a decent person.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Easydoesit,

What I sense is that you may never have gotten a confession about the affair from 23 years ago that you believe.

As a result you've never gotten to a point where you trust your W. Especially since your W seems to need validation from men and is flattered by their attention.

When the first affair occurred did your W take a polygraph or write out a timeline for what happened?

Tamat


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## OutofRetirement (Nov 27, 2017)

Easydoesit said:


> There are a couple of men there who are either divorced or widowed ... They feel comfortable talking about their love lives with her. ... Does she have crap for boundaries?


Yes, she has crap boundaries. A plethora of affairs here have started when male-female (coworkers, members, etc) started discussing their marriages and love lifes. Crap boundaries, yes.



Easydoesit said:


> ... she talks about me in glowing terms regularly ...
> 
> she is "safe" for them to talk about these issues with her. ...
> 
> ...


With all due respect, you cannot know any of those things ... maybe you showed up at the diner occasionally and they weren't there ... maybe you looked for a burner phone and couldn't find one ... on and on ... but that doesn't mean ANY of that stuff you believe is true actually is true.

[/QUOTE]she has had close gay friends but they ended up interfering in the marriage... [/QUOTE]

Do I consider these men "friends". Are they a threat? 



Easydoesit said:


> ... over time, as they get closer one of them is going to make his play such as "i broke up with my GF and am so upset, could you have coffee with me so I can discuss it with you?"..... so on and so forth the friendship develops slowly.
> 
> ... I do think that these guys may be developing their long game and she is either being quite naive or
> 
> ...


Well, since you've read here, you know. I guess you just are hoping at least one person will tell you "it's nothing, don't worry about it." 

Why do you think your wife likes the meetings, while you do not? Could it be that a bunch of divorcees or widows are not flocking around you discussing their sexual desires, successes, and failures?

Finally, I have a very small sample size of one, and it is dated: Years ago, a friend of mine went to rehab a number of times. He told me that these meetings are a hookup heaven. He said that there were experienced guys who would always be hawkeyes and try to swoop in on any "fresh meat" who wandered in. Would take advantage of their vulnerability. Your wife, being there 5 years, would not be considered "fresh meat" but I wonder if your wife has ever told you that guys try to take advantage of vulnerable women. Surely, in those 5 years, she must have seen it. My friend said he went to a lot of these meetings all over the place (it took about 5 years before it finally "took") and this aspect always was there.


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

OutofRetirement said:


> Yes, she has crap boundaries. A plethora of affairs here have started when male-female (coworkers, members, etc) started discussing their marriages and love lifes. Crap boundaries, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> With all due respect, you cannot know any of those things ... maybe you showed up at the diner occasionally and they weren't there ... maybe you looked for a burner phone and couldn't find one ... on and on ... but that doesn't mean ANY of that stuff you believe is true actually is true.


she has had close gay friends but they ended up interfering in the marriage... [/QUOTE]

Do I consider these men "friends". Are they a threat? 



Well, since you've read here, you know. I guess you just are hoping at least one person will tell you "it's nothing, don't worry about it." 

Why do you think your wife likes the meetings, while you do not? Could it be that a bunch of divorcees or widows are not flocking around you discussing their sexual desires, successes, and failures?

Finally, I have a very small sample size of one, and it is dated: Years ago, a friend of mine went to rehab a number of times. He told me that these meetings are a hookup heaven. He said that there were experienced guys who would always be hawkeyes and try to swoop in on any "fresh meat" who wandered in. Would take advantage of their vulnerability. Your wife, being there 5 years, would not be considered "fresh meat" but I wonder if your wife has ever told you that guys try to take advantage of vulnerable women. Surely, in those 5 years, she must have seen it. My friend said he went to a lot of these meetings all over the place (it took about 5 years before it finally "took") and this aspect always was there.[/QUOTE]

It is called 13th stepping. We both are quite aware what it is and that it happens.
I am fairly certain that she does not go out to coffee with any men... yet.
We spend way too much time together, I monitor everything through either shared accounts shared passwords or by sleuth I learned here. We live in a tight space so I don't think a burner is possible especially since i've looked for hidden bottles and found nothing.
And when she does drink, it's like truth serum. I just let her talk. That's how I found out about the current interactions. 

I don't want to confront yet or try and control the situation until I know for certain a line has been crossed. And If it's cheating, a packing she will go.

All of your comments are valuable to me as I figure out the next few weeks. I am watching this like a hawk. I am also quite aware of the horror stories on TAM and SI and don't plan on being one of those guys. I was a nice guy... not so much anymore. Also read MMSLP and upped my game considerable over the past few years. I am quite a catch If I must say so myself. Maybe part of me wants her to hang herself on the rope I give. Payback for 23 years ago? Hummmmm.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Does your wife know these things bother you?

I'm left wondering why she would continue with all these scenarios if she fully knows these things really put the marriage at risk.

Haven't you wondered why she goes to the meetings when she hasn't quit drinking?


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

Beach123 said:


> Does your wife know these things bother you?
> 
> I'm left wondering why she would continue with all these scenarios if she fully knows these things really put the marriage at risk.
> 
> Haven't you wondered why she goes to the meetings when she hasn't quit drinking?


She goes to hear other people's stories of struggle and tell her own. She goes to make new girlfriends. She goes to get attention. However all indications are that she only goes out with the women after the meeting. She stays at the meeting for about 10 minutes to gather her stuff, hit the bathroom and see who is available for coffee.
I know the women she goes with. They text often.

I have not expressed my latest concerns. I don't feel the time is right for I may just be reading into things based on past experience. I know how that sounds. Like so many other soon to be BS.


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## [email protected] (Dec 23, 2017)

She's going to the meetings to meet the men she talks to. And the gay friends thing? Nope. Maybe they were switch hitters.


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## seadoug105 (Jan 12, 2018)

[email protected] said:


> She's going to the meetings to meet the men she talks to. And the gay friends thing? Nope. Maybe they were switch hitters.


WAIT, WAIT, WAIT..... You mean to tell me there are gay baseball players? :surprise:

First Elton John now baseball players? The reality of my youth is shattered yet again....


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

Easydoesit said:


> She goes to hear other people's stories of struggle and tell her own. She goes to make new girlfriends. She goes to get attention. However all indications are that she only goes out with the women after the meeting. She stays at the meeting for about 10 minutes to gather her stuff, hit the bathroom and see who is available for coffee.
> *I know the women she goes with. They text often.*
> 
> I have not expressed my latest concerns. I don't feel the time is right for I may just be reading into things based on past experience. I know how that sounds. Like so many other soon to be BS.


You know these "women" personally (as in meeting face to face) or are you just seeing a text from"Helen" and assuming it is from a woman?

Won't be the first time a male AP has been listed under a woman's name in the contact list of a phone or email.

Do you have location services on her phone to make sure her coffee dates are at a coffee shop?


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Having read lots of stories like this on these boards, you are the perfect husband for a women like her. You are passive about her lack of boundaries and are conflict avoidant. This is exactly the type of spouse a serial cheater is looking for. It's why so many of these stories exist on the internet. It's why she picked you. 

I suggest if you are going to continue to live like this, with a women whose priorities are really about her getting gratification from inappropriate relationships, that a better tact to take would be to learn how to live in your situation. Accept this is who you are and deal with the pain like a long term illness that causes chronic pain. In this case you are just in chronic emotional pain as apposed to physical pain.

If it were me, assuming I was not religious and I didn't want to lose my ineffectual wife (I would never accept this by the way) I would suggest we open up your marriage. At least then you would be addressing the true nature of your marriage honestly and it would be fair. Who knows maybe you can meet someone who actually wants a monogamous marriage with you and that would make it easier to move forward with someone else. Or she will really change (not likely). 

It's obvious that you are not prepared or really don't have the desire to address your wife's lack of respect for your relationship. The only thing you can change is yourself anyway. I suggest you quit denying reality and accept this is what you have chosen for your life and what you are willing to accept. If you stick with this women she is going to continue to have inappropriate relationships with other people outside of your relationship. Deal with the reality of the situation YOU CHOOSE to live in.


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## AKA Broken Arrow (Feb 19, 2016)

I attend NA meetings to recover, not to make friends (though I do). I'm a WS and I do hang out for 10-15 mins after the meeting to exchange pleasantries or to discuss something that we couldn't address during the meeting. I think I've been out to "fellowship" (coffee) once in over 2 years of recovery. I just don't want my BS to wonder/worry about where I am and my meeting runs from 10:30-11:30 at night. The last thing I need to do is hang out with fellow female addicts after midnight. No way.


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## Ms. GP (Jul 8, 2013)

What are you hoping to gain? 
1. A healthy relationship with this woman
2. The upper hand in a divorce

If the answer is 2 that's fine but you don't have to wait for her to cheat. All you have to do is tell people she's an alcoholic who continued to drink despite going to meetings. (Even though you enabled it quite frankly)

Unless you do some serious work on yourself and your codependency issues, you will just find another one just like her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

so she's an alcoholic that still drinks and hangs around with drunks for the attention and social atmosphere.

She digs getting into people's sexual and relationship issues.

She has cheated with multiple APs and when you put the kabosh on her OM she got down with other women. 

You really do have a reason to be concerned here. Yes, in a way you have some insecurity and in a sick and twisted way it is kind of controlling when you tell someone to not screw other people that they find attractive. 

But it's only insecurity until someone does get it on with someone else - and then it's intuition. 

I don't think there is a true solution here. I think the best you can do is be clear and open about your boundaries and comfort zones and expectations and be clear on the consequences of going outside those boundaries . 

......and from there you leave it up to a person that has a documented history of chemical abuse, lack of boundaries, poor impulse control, need for attention and serial adultery. 

This really has to become about you and what you are willing and unwilling to live with. Yes, she has proven herself to not be trustworthy and she is still in that environment and still around people with poor impulse control, poor boundaries and character flaws. 

Do you want to spend your life playing detective and body guard just to keep her out of other people's beds? Do you want to live just waiting for the other shoe to drop. 

I don't have an answer, but my advice is to start building your own life and do the things that bring you joy and benefit and have an exit strategy in place. Then live your life for you and if one day you find out she's boning some dude or some chick, you exit stage left without breaking stride and move on to the rest of your life. 

You really can't stop her from cheating if that is what her character directs her to do. In the Mideast, they cover their women in bedsheets, keep them locked in the house and only let them go to market with a male relative escort and then they stone them to death or set them on fire if they cheat. And guess what? There is still cheating that goes on there. If someone's gonna cheat, they are gonna cheat no matter how hard you try to head it off at the pass. 

You make both of you miserable by being her prison guard. My best advice is live your own life to it's fullest and be your own man. But don't be dumb or naïve and don't let her BS you or pull the wool over your eyes. Drop the Jr Detective role and spend that time and energy doing the things that bring you joy and benefit. Then if she screws up again (which maybe she will, maybe she wont') then you just carry on living the good life without her.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She is doing recovery backwards. No wonder she has stopped drinking.

When anyone intends to get well - you don't go to meetings to tell about struggles. You DO the step work and share about how it's changing your life!

You go to the meetings to meet new sponsees that you can help. It's not a social gathering. Your wife has the wrong idea about meetings.

Is she willing to find a new meeting? One that will help her get sober and help others? A women's meeting perhaps?



As far as the phone - it can sit in a car and still show she's at that meeting... even IF she entered another car and went to dinner with someone else... or some place else.


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## Easydoesit (Jun 12, 2018)

I surprised her today outside the meeting. She was with 6 other women, no men in sight. I kept out of sight for about five minutes as they chatted. Then as she started walking with 3 of them, I approached. She was very happy to see me and introduced me to everyone. Women in their 30-60's. And very pretty.
I ended up having breakfast with them. They all told me how much she talks about me and how good our relationship is and were glad I came. These women love her. It was obvious in how they acted towards her. They told me this is what they do after every meeting, sometimes the group is as big as 12 women. Men aren't invited to join.

I feel a little more at ease. Thanks for the suggestion.
And they asked me to come back whenever i want.


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## VibrantWings (Sep 8, 2017)

Since your thread title asks for opinions, here's mine: You sound incredibly insecure and controlling. She obviously has some type of addiction to be attending AA. She's going to meetings, making new friends who are also trying to stay on the right path. It IS a lifestyle change.
You don't trust the guys because they think like guys is what I got out of your posts.
Doesn't sound like you have a problem with HER. However, it does sound like you're the one creating a problem.


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## VermiciousKnid (Nov 14, 2017)

As in any marriage there should be boundaries. Speaking openly in front of others to these men in a group setting seems fine. Ever texting them one on one or going for coffee with either of them or both alone should be a no-no. It would be for me, also my wife. We both respect our boundaries and that's a key to long term success.


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## just.ask (Jun 9, 2018)

Firstly I'm sorry this is happening to you. I don't want to put more doubt in your mind but my husbands infidelity was 3 1/2 years ago and his friends covered for him, they all said how he never stops talking about me on how much he loves me and how lucky he was to be married to me.
I hope I'm wrong and her friends are genuine, just be weary.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> How long had it been going on ? Did it get physical ? What was her reasons for doing it ?


??


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Decorum said:


> ??


I was referring to her brief infidelity 23 years ago (see below):



Easydoesit said:


> An employee of ours (we work together).
> A trusted friend informed me that something was going on and they were meeting for lunch. They had been working late of a project after everyone else went home, including me. I waited across the street from the diner and saw them her walk in, then him. I walked in after a few minutes of disbelief and confronted them as they sat in a booth holding hands. I said nothing as I slammed my wedding band on the table between them and walked out. When they returned to the office, I confronted him and fired his ass on the spot. Then told her to find an apartment and move out. Over the next few weeks we reconciled and it's been good ever since... except for a couple of gay relationships which have since ended upon my insistence.


I asked if it was physical (as opposed to just hand holding and maybe kissing) and also how long had it been going on for.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

manfromlamancha said:


> I was referring to her brief infidelity 23 years ago (see below):
> 
> 
> 
> I asked if it was physical (as opposed to just hand holding and maybe kissing) and also how long had it been going on for.


Sorry @mamfromlamancha I was asking the OP to answer your questions, because I had them too.

Obviously I was very unclear in what I was asking. Again sorry.



I


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

AA is a recruitment mechanism for churches; replace your addiction with this addiction that benefits me. 

Sounds to me like your wife is a narcissist, and the attention she gets in these meetings feeds her ego. It also sounds like you have things under control for now.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I like how you say its been a great marriage after her cheating, then proceed to tell us how you track her phone, look through her messages, aren't comfortable with her even speaking to other men in a social setting. She sounds caged, you sound like a loony. But yeah, this is a great marriage. Very healthy for both of you. Lmao


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

Easydoesit said:


> Married 30 years.
> Her brief infidelity 23 years ago.
> Me none.
> Good marriage since.
> ...


I am an AA facilitator and I have never been a supporter of co-ed AA groups, for the very reasons that you have listed. When you get a room full of people with addictive personalities, mixing genders will always be problematic at best. 

Given her history of infidelity, your wife should not be trusted in this co-ed environment. Also, if she is still drinking then she isn't working the program to the full extent. She is treating AA as her social circle, not a place to confront and deal with her illness. She needs to go to treatment for a few weeks to get dried out completely, then she needs to move over to a women's only group. That is my opinion.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

People like your wife who attend meetings make it harder for people who REALLY want to recover to get well.

It's NOT a social gathering! It's supposed to help others stay sober (your wife hasn't done this part) and to help others get sober.

It's not to make friends and go out...it's not about complaining about stuff.

Your wife has poor boundaries and you don't trust her...that sucks.

Why hasn't your wife gone to detox/rehab?

Why are you with her if she doesn't intend to quit drinking?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Easydoesit said:


> An employee of ours (we work together).
> A trusted friend informed me that something was going on and they were meeting for lunch. They had been working late of a project after everyone else went home, including me. I waited across the street from the diner and saw them her walk in, then him. I walked in after a few minutes of disbelief and confronted them as they sat in a booth holding hands. I said nothing as I slammed my wedding band on the table between them and walked out. When they returned to the office, I confronted him and fired his ass on the spot. Then told her to find an apartment and move out. Over the next few weeks we reconciled and it's been good ever since... except for a couple of gay relationships which have since ended upon my insistence.


You can't reconcile that kind of betrayal in a few short weeks. It's not possible... she would have no time to EARN your trust back.

And based on her actions she's never attempted to EARN your trust - and she hasn't changed.

So you really have NO foundation for the M because she doesn't respect you and you can't trust her.

It's very unhealthy. Your wife is manipulative and sneaky.


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