# I'm the asshole...



## Eg78

So hi everyone, I'm new here and just wanted to share I guess and possibly get some advice..

I met my wife in 2007, we bought a house together in 2008, and were married in 2009, had our first child in 2010 and our 2nd in 2013 (I know I know...) In 2013, our 2nd daughter had medical issues when she was born and had to be operated on at 4 days old, thank God it went well and she is a healthy and strong 7 year old now. In 2014 my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and had to undergo a double mastectomy, she also had her ovaries removed as a preventative measure. We were 35 years old.

Those things along with financial stress that I won't get into made for a very difficult decade , a decade of struggles, of challenges, of no intimacy (we maybe had sex 10 times in 5 years, yah) of survival mode and we grew apart. I remember lying in bed at night wishing she would just go away and staying only because of my kids, for years and years....and years. I mean there was no physical or emotional connection and at some point I just was t attracted to her anymore. I truly believe this was due to the fact that j was rejected so many countless times and it really ****ed with my self esteem.


Well fast forward, after a rough year and me threatening to leave several times, I finally worked up the courage to do it. I really don't want to be mean, I really don't want to hurt my kids, but I don't know how I can keep going on living like this. We tried couples therapy, it was a joke. Read cards to each other, try to be more intimate... Yeah no ****... To be honest I didn't want to be intimate with her anymore, I want to look elsewhere.

Anyways, we've been living seperately since October 1st and the kids seem ok with the shared custody, but she's still trying to make me feel like an ass by saying my daughter's crying st night cause she misses me and it breaks her heart and she hopes I'm happy now and it was worth it.... 

I'm not sure what do to. I don't want to reconcile the marriage and be bored and sexless and bored, and bored anymore. Does this get easier? Should I just stay strong and keep taking care of my kids in priority (I am a very good dad and spend tons of time with my kids) and it will just get better?

Looking to hear from folks that have gone through it.

Thanks!


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## Spicy

How do you feel about your marriage vows?


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## Evinrude58

So does your wife feel that you should be willing to hang around for husband and dad duties, in spite of her showing you zero physical affection and zero sexual intimacy?

what did your wife say? What were her reasons for feeling you should be willing to stay, other than the kids?

I don’t know what to tell you. I wouldn’t stay with a woman that did not show me she loved me, was attracted to me, and wanted me as a romantic partner. I can see how you’d feel used.


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## DownByTheRiver

If you are sharing custody 50%, then it's entirely possible your children would be seeing you even more than they were when you were living in the house. So if the child is complaining because she doesn't get to see you very often, that's the solution, doing 50/50 joint custody. In the United States that's the norm now. That way they don't miss anybody for very long and they get plenty of time. 

It sounds like you guys had a really bad run of luck and that it changed her life and yours forever. I certainly can't lay blame on her after going through all of that. There are just things that override everything else. Cancer is certainly one of them and so is a sick weak child. 

But you guys have lost it, and I agree you need to move on and so does she, although I doubt she really has the energy for a new relationship. But please do be sure you are doing 50/50 custody so your kids have the benefit of two parents. 

I mean something could happen to her anyway, so they need to be getting used to being with you and you them. 

So see an attorney or the court or whatever and get that set up. Good luck. Sounds like you're wife could use some resting up time anyway having been so ill for so long. She needs time to rest, whether she realizes that or not. Good luck.


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## Eg78

Yeah we are doing 50/50, on top of it all I've always been the bread earner making 3x what she makes AND I work at home so the kids have been with me 75% of their time already leading up to this, on top of which I cook, clean (well sorta clean), take care of Reno's, bills, etc... I mean I kinda felt at the end that I really don't need her for anything... And I think that was true and still is.


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## Eg78

Spicy said:


> How do you feel about your marriage vows?


Well, at the end of the day, it's a piece of paper. It's not like I gave up after a year... It's been 10 years


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## ccpowerslave

You didn’t sign up for celibacy.


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## Openminded

It can take some time for children to adjust and every child is obviously different. If they had two parents who were happy together that would be one thing but they didn’t have that. Children are usually quick to pick up on family dysfunction and they more often than not grow up to repeat that. I did — and so did my child. I don’t recommend that life.


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## DownByTheRiver

Eg78 said:


> Yeah we are doing 50/50, on top of it all I've always been the bread earner making 3x what she makes AND I work at home so the kids have been with me 75% of their time already leading up to this, on top of which I cook, clean (well sorta clean), take care of Reno's, bills, etc... I mean I kinda felt at the end that I really don't need her for anything... And I think that was true and still is.


Good. Look I know this is a guilt-ridden situation. But there is just no reason to feel guilty about the children if you're taking care of them 50% of the time. Kids don't know what's best. And she very well may be influencing or putting words in their mouth. Don't let the guilt get to you. This just hasn't been working and you can't save her. As long as you're taking care of those kids, you have a right to do what makes you happier.


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## Spicy

Eg78 said:


> Well, at the end of the day, it's a piece of paper. It's not like I gave up after a year... It's been 10 years


Is she at all willing to try? Do you want to try, or are you done? Sexless is a very hard way to live. Sorry you are here.


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## Evinrude58

Eg78 said:


> Well, at the end of the day, it's a piece of paper. It's not like I gave up after a year... It's been 10 years


you’ve given her years to change, months telling her you’re going to leave if it doesn’t. You and she can go to therapy until the cows come home, but if she doesn’t want sex (and she may not be able to help that), she’s not suddenly going to want it. You’re not gonna be satisfied with duty sex, anyway. Your vows aren’t a “piece of paper”—- I disagree with that. But I assume she should understand you didn’t get married to live like a monk.


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## moulinyx

The vow question was a low blow. No one signs up to be roommates or stay together to raise children. She closed herself off emotionally and physically. If she is having hormonal issues or other health related reasons as to why it’s hard to be intimate, then there’s options to help with that as well. Bottom line is she hasn’t made OP feel like there is a marriage left to fight for.


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## happyhusband0005

Eg78 said:


> Anyways, we've been living seperately since October 1st and the kids seem ok with the shared custody, but she's still trying to make me feel like an ass by saying my daughter's crying st night cause she misses me and it breaks her heart and she hopes I'm happy now and it was worth it....


Maybe next time just say yes i'm happy. If she misses me so much maybe they should just live with me full time. Just stay strong. From what I have observed it will be tough for a while. Stay positive and focus on the kids and building the life you want.


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## frusdil

The woman had a sick child followed by breast cancer, mastectomy and ovarian hysterectomy, which likely would have been followed by early menopause ffs. Are you serious?

Were I in her shoes, and my husband abandoned me and our children, I'd be saying those same things. You've blown your childrens world apart for your own wants. That is supremely selfish imo, given the circumstances. Had none of the above happened and she simply shut down and put the kabosh on your sex life that would be different.

What did YOU do, to make her feel loved and supported while she was literally fighting for her life?


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## moulinyx

frusdil said:


> The woman had a sick child followed by breast cancer, mastectomy and ovarian hysterectomy, which likely would have been followed by early menopause ffs. Are you serious?
> 
> Were I in her shoes, and my husband abandoned me and our children, I'd be saying those same things. You've blown your childrens world apart for your own wants. That is supremely selfish imo, given the circumstances. Had none of the above happened and she simply shut down and put the kabosh on your sex life that would be different.
> 
> What did YOU do, to make her feel loved and supported while she was literally fighting for her life?


He said above that he financially supported the household and took care of the children. Trauma within the marriage caused this breakdown but I think it’s unfair to say he blew up his marriage. Sex isn’t the only form of intimacy and OP’s post sounded like he was starved for every type of intimacy.

Her symptoms of early menopause probably play a role in this but she is capable of having an open line of communication to make sure her husband knows he is wanted.


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## frusdil

moulinyx said:


> He said above that he financially supported the household and took care of the children. Trauma within the marriage caused this breakdown but I think it’s unfair to say he blew up his marriage. Sex isn’t the only form of intimacy and OP’s post sounded like he was starved for every type of intimacy.
> 
> Her symptoms of early menopause probably play a role in this but she is capable of having an open line of communication to make sure her husband knows he is wanted.


I didn't say he blew up the marriage, I said he blew his children's world apart - and that's a fact. The marriage problems are on both him and his wife.

Have you ever had a child operated on at 4 days old? Followed by a cancer battle and two major surgeries, and who knows what other type of treatment? We don't know what she was "capable" of following that devastation.


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## Wolfman1968

frusdil said:


> The woman had a sick child followed by breast cancer, mastectomy and ovarian hysterectomy, which likely would have been followed by early menopause ffs. Are you serious?
> 
> Were I in her shoes, and my husband abandoned me and our children, I'd be saying those same things. You've blown your childrens world apart for your own wants. That is supremely selfish imo, given the circumstances. Had none of the above happened and she simply shut down and put the kabosh on your sex life that would be different.
> 
> What did YOU do, to make her feel loved and supported while she was literally fighting for her life?


Well, the OP says that her health issues and surgeries were in 2014. 6 years ago. OP's wife is past the stage of shock and "fighting for her life". 5 years for most cancers is considered a cure. By 6 years, a behavior pattern will have established itself as the new norm. If he's been "rejected countless times" over the years, and if he's correct that she's only been intimate with him 10 times over 5 years, I don't think just blaming it on her health issues from 2014 is going to fly.


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## moulinyx

frusdil said:


> I didn't say he blew up the marriage, I said he blew his children's world apart - and that's a fact. The marriage problems are on both him and his wife.
> 
> Have you ever had a child operated on at 4 days old? Followed by a cancer battle and two major surgeries, and who knows what other type of treatment? We don't know what she was "capable" of following that devastation.


I am not interested in a fight over the internet. My point is you correct, we don’t know any of the information you mentioned above. Why are you so quick to blindly take a side....passionately at that. The wife also plays a role in blowing up their children’s home life. It’s been 6 years to pull it together and renew the marriage.

My parents divorced and remarried. I would have preferred that over an unhappy home. At some point our happiness matters as well. OP sounds lonely and abandoned in his marriage. His perception is his reality.


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## aine

moulinyx said:


> The vow question was a low blow. No one signs up to be roommates or stay together to raise children. She closed herself off emotionally and physically. If she is having hormonal issues or other health related reasons as to why it’s hard to be intimate, then there’s options to help with that as well. Bottom line is she hasn’t made OP feel like there is a marriage left to fight for.


Yeah and what ever happened to 'for better or worse' I wonder if he had testicular cancer or something would she have done the same thing?


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## aine

Wolfman1968 said:


> Well, the OP says that her health issues and surgeries were in 2014. 6 years ago. OP's wife is past the stage of shock and "fighting for her life". 5 years for most cancers is considered a cure. By 6 years, a behavior pattern will have established itself as the new norm. If he's been "rejected countless times" over the years, and if he's correct that she's only been intimate with him 10 times over 5 years, I don't think just blaming it on her health issues from 2014 is going to fly.


But based on what he posted he didn't sound sympathetic only that he could manage everything and he didn't did need her.


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## Wolfman1968

aine said:


> But based on what he posted he didn't sound sympathetic only that he could manage everything and he didn't did need her.


Please reread his post talking about that. In describing his situation since moving out, he said (assume in response to a post saying he could get 50/50 custody) that they are already doing 50/50, that he worked from home so could spend MORE time with the kids, and that he was actually doing 75% "leading up to this".

I take his post to mean that, at the end of their relationship/just before moving out, HE was doing 75%. Since the end of the relationship/him moving out is 6 years after his wife had her cancer/surgery, then I'm not sure why you think that he should be sympathetic about an intolerable situation brought about by her lack of compassion for her husband.

In the throes of illness? Of course, he needs to be supportive and sympathetic to his wife during the crisis. He'd be a horrible person if he wasn't supportive. But 6 years later? She needs to be making more of an effort to the relationship. But he says they had 10 episodes of intimacy over 5 years, and she incessantly rejected him. Doesn't sound like she was making an effort. I would think that the OP needs the sympathy 6 years later, not his wife.


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## Impulse

Eg78 said:


> Well fast forward,


Sorry to hear about your troubles


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## frusdil

I'm with @aine I can't believe the lack of compassion here.

The surgery itself was 6 years ago yes. How long did the treatment following go for? Chemotherapy for a 35 yo woman with breast cancer (and gynaecological cancers) is especially horrific. The side effects are horrendous both physically and mentally, and often last for years. When that finishes, there's maintenance medication, again with horrendous side effects - my friend who had breast cancer at 31 told her doctor and I quote "If this is what I have to endure to survive, I'd rather die thanks" when discussing the medication side effects following her courses of chemo. Then there's the constant threat of the cancer returning in the back of her mind. While all this is going on, she's also endured another major surgery. This is not a surgery, short recovery and boom, all fixed. She endured all of this while also living with constant threats of divorce from her husband.

I'm not saying she's a perfect wife, part of the marital issues are due to her health, I get that, but come on.

OP she's your WIFE. The mother of your children. You owe her the chance to try to make this right. You owe her that much.


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## PieceOfSky

It would be interesting to know to what extent, in recent years, his wife and he have both been trying to salvage some sort of romantic relationship.

I have sympathy for anyone whose disinterest in sexual intimacy is driven by a hormonal deficit/imbalance, whether caused by menopause, peri-menopause, hysterectomy or ovary removal or any other surgery, or disease. I’ve been told, and would like to believe, there are women who have some uninvited factors (natural hormonal changes) eliminating desire, but still manage to make their partners feel loved. How that is possible, and to what extent the OP’s wife might have tried or been capable of, I don’t know.

I also have sympathy for anyone disinterested in sexual intimacy due to emotional conflict, or having a partner that has earned distance, disrespect, contempt, and/or resentment. How much of his wife’s disaffection has been earned this way, I do not know. Some here read into his words, I think, more than I think we know at this point. Their interpretation ultimately may be correct, or it may be wrong and the accusations harmful.

I also have sympathy for someone who has been rejected for years. Whether it’s possible to survive that without losing too much of oneself and mental health depends on a lot of things, only some of which the rejected has a choice in (like everything else). Whether someone should continue to endure and try to close the distance, I think, properly depends on what possible engagement and effort their partner is putting in despite their challenges. Assessing that is difficult from this distance, or even face to face. How long to try — who am I to judge? But, years and years of a life is a very high price to keep paying, especially if trying has no effect. Of course, “trying” and idly enduring are two different things, so “trying” differently is something to consider. But eventually, there is nothing left to try.

Whether the net effect on the children is better or worse when the parents split is also hard to judge. At least, in the cases I’m most familiar with, my marriage and my parent’s, I don’t have a decisive feeling either way.

The OP didn’t come here to be judged. But, as long as that has happened, I thought I’d chime in with my opinions.

Life presents challenges that are difficult for both partners. People on the internet can play judge and jury, and I suppose it can have some positive effect on someone somewhere. But, some problems cannot be solved. Assessing blame has a use, sometimes I suppose, but it doesn’t fix anything, and a few posts in on an Internet forum thread isn’t likely to reflect the truth of an OPs situation, and reflects more our own sensitivities than anything.

Sometimes, a marriage cannot or should not be saved. Divorce is not death. Nor does it necessarily prevent eventual happiness for anyone involved.

I hope whatever happens, the OP, his wife, and their children adjust and go on to have happy and fulfilling lives. People can and do, no matter how and why years prior were nearly unbearable.


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## Impulse

Eg78 said:


> Well fast forward,


Sorry to hear about the troubles..


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## manfromlamancha

What happened to in sickness and in health, for better or worse etc etc. Kind of meant to be more than just a piece of paper. I cannot feel sympathy for you and hope your wife does well. Taking your thread title into consideration, at least you realise that you are, in fact, the entitled asshole here.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

aine said:


> Yeah and what ever happened to 'for better or worse' I wonder if he had testicular cancer or something would she have done the same thing?


It appears the length of time without progress resurrecting the intimacy is the issue.

Yes, there were issues, and will always be challenges with the new normal but the one thing that is bedrock for a M is to work together to stay close, caring, by H AND W.

Five years with no progress and no record of wanting things to get better regarding intimacy is long enough. 

At which time H is acting solidly about support for W and children, just wants a physical relationship too.

What's wrong with that?


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

manfromlamancha said:


> What happened to in sickness and in health, for better or worse etc etc. Kind of meant to be more than just a piece of paper. I cannot feel sympathy for you and hope your wife does well. Taking your thread title into consideration, at least you realise that you are, in fact, the entitled asshole here.


Are you saying a W that's had breast cancer can't be a sexual person?


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## Divinely Favored

moulinyx said:


> The vow question was a low blow. No one signs up to be roommates or stay together to raise children. She closed herself off emotionally and physically. If she is having hormonal issues or other health related reasons as to why it’s hard to be intimate, then there’s options to help with that as well. Bottom line is she hasn’t made OP feel like there is a marriage left to fight for.


As for vows, she has violated them by forced abstinance on him. Refusing your spouse is sexual immorality and is grounds Biblically for divorce. Most people just think the Bible refers to adultry, but it is much more that that.


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## cd2

You've got the chance to become a truly heroic person in life if you could repair this. I think your feelings are understandable and justified but I think you need to do everything it takes to try and bring this marriage back to life. I think your wife is a seriously wounded person having gone through all that so I hope you can forgive her and rekindle your love for her. She's the same lady you married underneath it all. Best wishes.


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## Nailhead

Eg78 said:


> Yeah we are doing 50/50, on top of it all I've always been the bread earner making 3x what she makes AND I work at home so the kids have been with me 75% of their time already leading up to this, on top of which I cook, clean (well sorta clean), take care of Reno's, bills, etc... I mean I kinda felt at the end that I really don't need her for anything... And I think that was true and still is.


So you are saying your W brings basically nothing to the marriage and rearing of the kids. Have you discussed your frustrations with your W? What has your answer been to your voicing discontent with the marriage?


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## pastasauce79

Wow! 

This poor wife has been through a lot! And it seems that she should be back to what she was before the cancer! Come on, she's gotten plenty of time to fix herself in six years!!! She should be swinging from the chandelier by now, right??

This poor woman has had loss after loss. Her newborn having surgery, her facing breast cancer, her losing her breast and ovaries and now losing her husband. What a cr*ppy destiny. 

And people here feel she should be a-ok and be the sexiest wife, showing her mutilated chest and feel like her phantom ovaries are working fine. What's wrong with you people? She broke her vows by mourning her losses for 6 years??? Really?? Has the husband done anything to help her heal??

Did she get any psychological support while going through all the surgeries? Is she taking HRT?

I feel so sad for this woman and I'm so angry at you the husband. You have abandoned her in her sickness. I have no sympathy for you. I pray and wish for her to find someone who can value and worship her. She deserves it. 

P.S. To me having breast cancer would be a devastating diagnosis to face. My image as a woman and my sexuality are very attached to my breasts. To me, it would be the same as having your testicles and penis removed.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> Wow!
> 
> This poor wife has been through a lot! And it seems that she should be back to what she was before the cancer! Come on, she's gotten plenty of time to fix herself in six years!!! She should be swinging from the chandelier by now, right??
> 
> This poor woman has had loss after loss. Her newborn having surgery, her facing breast cancer, her losing her breast and ovaries and now losing her husband. What a cr*ppy destiny.
> 
> And people here feel she should be a-ok and be the sexiest wife, showing her mutilated chest and feel like her phantom ovaries are working fine. What's wrong with you people? She broke her vows by mourning her losses for 6 years??? Really?? Has the husband done anything to help her heal??
> 
> Did she get any psychological support while going through all the surgeries? Is she taking HRT?
> 
> I feel so sad for this woman and I'm so angry at you the husband. You have abandoned her in her sickness. I have no sympathy for you. I pray and wish for her to find someone who can value and worship her. She deserves it.
> 
> P.S. To me having breast cancer would be a devastating diagnosis to face. My image as a woman and my sexuality are very attached to my breasts. To me, it would be the same as having your testicles and penis removed.


You act like challenges and trials aren't part of most all long term relationships. 

In fact they are.

To follow your logic every trial encountered by a couple is immediate cause to destroy a M.


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## LosingHim

At the end of the day, everyone deserves happiness.


Of course you went through a lot, your wife went through a lot, your marriage has been through a lot. The majority of people who are married have been through their share of things.


I’m kind of put off by the amount of people saying to stay. You can unequivocally care about the well being of your wife and be supportive and not be married to each other. If staying in the relationship is causing bitterness in you both, it’s only going to continue going downhill. You’re bitter because there is no intimacy and love, she’s most likely bitter because she knows you’ve given up and stayed longer than intended.


We ALL go through things in life. Some of those things are horrific. It could be an illness, a loss of a child or parent, abuse, etc. While what the OP’s wife has endured is 100% horrific and probably incredibly emotional, she will heal and cope as most people do with what life throws at us. That’s not to diminish anything that she’s gone through. We can have compassion for people and what they have endured, but at the same time recognize that they will get stronger day by day as they grow from their hardships. NO ONE wants someone to stay with them out of pity. Sure, vows are vows and they are meant to be for life. But I don’t want someone staying with me and miserable because of that. Set me free and give me a chance to be with someone who WANTS to be with me. If I ended my days on this earth knowing my husband stayed with me out of duty and pity, I would be angry that he wasted the years I could’ve enjoyed with someone who loved all of me.


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## SunCMars

frusdil said:


> The woman had a sick child followed by breast cancer, mastectomy and ovarian hysterectomy, which likely would have been followed by early menopause ffs. Are you serious?
> 
> Were I in her shoes, and my husband abandoned me and our children, I'd be saying those same things. You've blown your childrens world apart for your own wants. That is supremely selfish imo, given the circumstances. Had none of the above happened and she simply shut down and put the kabosh on your sex life that would be different.
> 
> What did YOU do, to make her feel loved and supported while she was literally fighting for her life?


I can see (teary-eyed) your position, and I can see the other side of the fence.

Life and the available choices are not often ideal.

When cruelty arrives, it rarely comes alone, nor just once.

In the old days the poor dear would have died, her worries being over.

What woman wants a man who is miserable, being with her?

Her choices are limited, his, are less-so.
I agree, certainly not fair.
Nor, is life.

In marriage, both are miserable.
In divorce, any lasting misery will be reduced by half.

Nature does math, bets on the odds. 




_Gwendolyn-_


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## SunCMars

Any, who are not Saints, are assholes.

With life being short, those Saints are seen by many, as Fools.


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## SunCMars

A cruel aside....

An opinion from one who looks at this from a distance....

..........................................................................

Your' leaving her was just another knife in her heart. 
The low front persists.

I pray that, the dark cloud that umbrella's her, drifts away, to some place over an unoccupied ocean.




_The Typist-_


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## SunCMars

Assholes serve a purpose, not always favored ones.


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## Diana7

moulinyx said:


> The vow question was a low blow. No one signs up to be roommates or stay together to raise children. She closed herself off emotionally and physically. If she is having hormonal issues or other health related reasons as to why it’s hard to be intimate, then there’s options to help with that as well. Bottom line is she hasn’t made OP feel like there is a marriage left to fight for.


Some people believe in the for better and for worse part.


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## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> As for vows, she has violated them by forced abstinance on him. Refusing your spouse is sexual immorality and is grounds Biblically for divorce. Most people just think the Bible refers to adultry, but it is much more that that.


Actually its not sexual immorality. so isnt grounds for divorce.


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## Diana7

Divinely Favored said:


> As for vows, she has violated them by forced abstinance on him. Refusing your spouse is sexual immorality and is grounds Biblically for divorce. Most people just think the Bible refers to adultry, but it is much more that that.


Sorry but its not grounds for divorce.


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## pastasauce79

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You act like challenges and trials aren't part of most all long term relationships.
> 
> In fact they are.
> 
> To follow your logic every trial encountered by a couple is immediate cause to destroy a M.


My husband has a neurological disease. I know how challenging medical issues can be.

I also know the effects of an incurable disease in a couple's sex life. 

I haven't left my husband because he's been down and affected by a faulty brain. We've been through a lot. This is why I don't have much compassion for the OP. 

What happened to the "in sickness and in health vow?" It's obvious that his wife is still sick.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband has a neurological disease. I know how challenging medical issues can be.
> 
> I also know the effects of an incurable disease in a couple's sex life.
> 
> I haven't left my husband because he's been down and affected by a faulty brain. We've been through a lot. This is why I don't have much compassion for the OP.
> 
> What happened to the "in sickness and in health vow?" It's obvious that his wife is still sick.


Incurable and constantly debilitating are key words. Cancer survivors aren't identified as solely cancer survivors. 

No mention of daily debilitating sickness is stated going on.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband has a neurological disease. I know how challenging medical issues can be.
> 
> I also know the effects of an incurable disease in a couple's sex life.
> 
> I haven't left my husband because he's been down and affected by a faulty brain. We've been through a lot. This is why I don't have much compassion for the OP.
> 
> What happened to the "in sickness and in health vow?" It's obvious that his wife is still sick.


@pastasauce79 although we disagree, I have nothing but compassion and respect for you and your situation which is dissimilar to OPs in most respects.

There are differences in the types of medical issues faced, between you and OP.


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## PieceOfSky

pastasauce79 said:


> My husband has a neurological disease. I know how challenging medical issues can be.
> 
> I also know the effects of an incurable disease in a couple's sex life.
> 
> I haven't left my husband because he's been down and affected by a faulty brain. We've been through a lot. This is why I don't have much compassion for the OP.





> What happened to the "in sickness and in health vow?" It's obvious that his wife is still sick.


I admire your commitment, compassion and love. If in your position, I hope I would do the same. I suspect you still love your husband; I hope you feel loved by him too.

Seems apparent the OP does not feel loved by his wife, and doesn’t feel love for her. She may feel likewise, we don’t know. Perhaps some of that could have turned out differently. For some people it might have. For some, perhaps it should have. But keeping love alive in any circumstances is not always easy. I resist judgement on that in this case, due to lack of evidence, and because I don’t think it serves much purpose. Neither willed their child’s condition or the wife’s illness. Maybe they each were doing the best they could do.

I do not believe the OP has shared enough here for us to understand if his wife is still sick. 

I hope the OP seeks individual counseling. It’s not sympathy he needs, nor condemnation, but a healthy way to cope and navigate confusing, painful facts of his life — in a way that brings to bear the best within him.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are you saying a W that's had breast cancer can't be a sexual person?


Really? You cannot see that she has been through a lot as a result of the cancer and other life challenges. Instead of helping her heal, seeing her through to wellness and then acting on the needs of his "other brain from the little head", he wants to bail now while he can still screw !


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

manfromlamancha said:


> Really? You cannot see that she has been through a lot as a result of the cancer and other life challenges. Instead of helping her heal, seeing her through to wellness and then acting on the needs of his "other brain from the little head", he wants to bail now while he can still screw !


You try and simplify sir.

We're told his dear W had breast cancer, and is presently cancer free, and that also tragically, the child had life saving operation thankfully recovered, these things about six years ago.

OP believes that shouldn't preclude a close, including sexual relationship between he and her, for an indefinite time, keeping them from enjoying the positive aspects of the M.

Are you saying the M should always and forever be solely about tragedy and never joy?

Both happen in happy ltrs.


----------



## PieceOfSky

manfromlamancha said:


> Really? You cannot see that she has been through a lot as a result of the cancer and other life challenges. Instead of helping her heal, seeing her through to wellness and then acting on the needs of his "other brain from the little head", he wants to bail now while he can still screw !


Seems directed to me, so I’ll say:

Obviously, “she has been through a lot as a result of the cancer and other life challenges.” Who wouldn’t have? Having not personally gone through something like that, I freely admit I can’t possibly understand what that’s like, but I’m confident it’s a horrible horrible thing.

The degree to which he did this part or not is simply not clear to me from what he posted: “helping her heal, seeing her through to wellness”. From what I remember reading, I think some people are making assumptions for the worst.

Sure, he’s claiming to be an asshole, or at least using those words. And he’s used a few words about his situation and feelings towards her that sound harsh; but sometimes harsh feelings are not the whole story.

But, that’s enough for some to lash out and shame him. I don’t think doing so will help him, his wife, or their kids. Might even make it harder for him to reach out for professional or other help IRL that might have tended towards a better outcome.


----------



## scotian89

Eg78 said:


> So hi everyone, I'm new here and just wanted to share I guess and possibly get some advice..
> 
> I met my wife in 2007, we bought a house together in 2008, and were married in 2009, had our first child in 2010 and our 2nd in 2013 (I know I know...) In 2013, our 2nd daughter had medical issues when she was born and had to be operated on at 4 days old, thank God it went well and she is a healthy and strong 7 year old now. In 2014 my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer and had to undergo a double mastectomy, she also had her ovaries removed as a preventative measure. We were 35 years old.
> 
> Those things along with financial stress that I won't get into made for a very difficult decade , a decade of struggles, of challenges, of no intimacy (we maybe had sex 10 times in 5 years, yah) of survival mode and we grew apart. I remember lying in bed at night wishing she would just go away and staying only because of my kids, for years and years....and years. I mean there was no physical or emotional connection and at some point I just was t attracted to her anymore. I truly believe this was due to the fact that j was rejected so many countless times and it really ****ed with my self esteem.
> 
> 
> Well fast forward, after a rough year and me threatening to leave several times, I finally worked up the courage to do it. I really don't want to be mean, I really don't want to hurt my kids, but I don't know how I can keep going on living like this. We tried couples therapy, it was a joke. Read cards to each other, try to be more intimate... Yeah no ****... To be honest I didn't want to be intimate with her anymore, I want to look elsewhere.
> 
> Anyways, we've been living seperately since October 1st and the kids seem ok with the shared custody, but she's still trying to make me feel like an ass by saying my daughter's crying st night cause she misses me and it breaks her heart and she hopes I'm happy now and it was worth it....
> 
> I'm not sure what do to. I don't want to reconcile the marriage and be bored and sexless and bored, and bored anymore. Does this get easier? Should I just stay strong and keep taking care of my kids in priority (I am a very good dad and spend tons of time with my kids) and it will just get better?
> 
> Looking to hear from folks that have gone through it.
> 
> Thanks!



I am in the middle of a "temporary" seperation and I am having the same feelings as you mentioned at the end... I had all the intentions of going back to my husband and home (I have our son with me- 18 month old). We have been in couples therapy for almost a year as well as individual therapy but ever since I left, I feel further and further disconnected to him. 

Not being yelled at and and other psychological abuse or not being made to feel like what is happening is my fault is such a nice change of pace. My mental health is still damaged (as a result of leaving the marriage). I plan on living seperately until I feel ready to go back, my question is the same as yours and I think we both know the answer:

It will get better at first, and then our partners (and ourselves) will conveniently slip back into the old ways... Im just as genuinely confused as you are...

best of luck to you


----------



## Mr. Nail

For better or worse could have any definition. What it doesn't define is for tolerable and for intolerable. There is a limit. To the vow pushers, you seem a lot more interested in worse, than in better, both can be challenging


----------



## lucy999

What was/is your wife's response to your separation? Does she still love you?

I have to say that I cannot even begin to fathom my daughter having to go through surgery at such a young age (I'm relieved to hear she's fine thank goodness), being diagnosed with cancer AND losing both my breasts AND my ovaries. The last thing I'd want is to have sex, too. YES I know this was 6 years ago. 

I'm not going to beat you up about leaving--no one should be in a sexless marriage if they don't want to be.

I think when people here are asking what sort of support you've provided to your wife, they mean emotional support? I know that's my question to you. Losing my breasts would be devastating and I wouldn't know how I would deal with it, frankly. Sure, I'd be so grateful I was alive and beat cancer, but my life would be forever altered because I lost my breasts. I wouldn't care less if the finances were sorted, the dishes were done, etc. I would want and need affirmation from you that I am still a feminine woman in your eyes, even with no breasts. (And if you don't feel that way, I'm not going to drag you for it.)

Have either of you considered that she may have a serious case of PTSD and treatment might be helpful here?

I will say it's disturbing that you said if you stay, you'd be bored. Guess what? Life is what you make it. Life is boring sometimes.


----------



## LisaDiane

Mr. Nail said:


> For better or worse could have any definition. What it doesn't define is for tolerable and for intolerable. There is a limit.


THIS is BRILLIANT...and actually the ONLY thing that matters!!!!


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> Wow!
> 
> This poor wife has been through a lot! And it seems that she should be back to what she was before the cancer! Come on, she's gotten plenty of time to fix herself in six years!!! She should be swinging from the chandelier by now, right??
> 
> This poor woman has had loss after loss. Her newborn having surgery, her facing breast cancer, her losing her breast and ovaries and now losing her husband. What a cr*ppy destiny.
> 
> And people here feel she should be a-ok and be the sexiest wife, showing her mutilated chest and feel like her phantom ovaries are working fine. What's wrong with you people? She broke her vows by mourning her losses for 6 years??? Really?? Has the husband done anything to help her heal??
> 
> Did she get any psychological support while going through all the surgeries? Is she taking HRT?
> 
> I feel so sad for this woman and I'm so angry at you the husband. You have abandoned her in her sickness. I have no sympathy for you. I pray and wish for her to find someone who can value and worship her. She deserves it.
> 
> P.S. To me having breast cancer would be a devastating diagnosis to face. My image as a woman and my sexuality are very attached to my breasts. To me, it would be the same as having your testicles and penis removed.


If you itrw had breast cancer and survived, you would see things differently. Periods of happiness and simple pleasures would take a whole new deeper meaning. 

No, it's not like getting a man's penis and testicles cut off.

Why would you say these things?

Is your whole meaning of life solely in your breasts?


----------



## pastasauce79

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> @pastasauce79 although we disagree, I have nothing but compassion and respect for you and your situation which is dissimilar to OPs in most respects.
> 
> There are differences in the types of medical issues faced, between you and OP.


My father is also a cancer survivor. He got lymphoma of the nose. Nothing related to his genitals. He's been in remission for two years, and sex is not in his thoughts yet. So I guess this is not unusual. 

I don't know the OP's wife's treatment other than surgery, but if she went through chemo and radiation, it depends how her body reacted to the treatment. It might take her more than 6 years to get back to "normal" and since her ovaries were removed, she has 0 hormones in her tank. And who knows, having HRT might be dangerous for her. Without hormones, she might never feel like having sex again. 

I understand, this is sad for both of them. The OP didn't say what kind of support his wife got post partum, post oophorectomy, and post mastectomy. Holy cow! I can't imagine going through that.

Women's emotions, behavior, sexiness, depend heavily on hormonal balance, this is why most doctors recommend HRT after removing the ovaries. But again, what if she's not supposed to have any HRT? What then? 

I understand what they are going through. What I don't understand is not showing compassion (he doesn't seem compassionate) for a spouse who's been through a lot physically and psychologically.


----------



## lucy999

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, it's not like getting a man's penis and testicles cut off.
> 
> Why would you say these things?
> 
> Is your whole meaning of life solely in your breasts?


I know this question wasn't for me, but I'll provide my own answer if you don't mind. 

No, the whole meaning of life isn't related solely to our breasts, but the issue, according to the OP, is no sex. For many women (and let's face it--men), breasts are very sexual. So in this case, they are indeed the be all, end all.

So, speaking in the very narrow subject of a sex life and not a general life view, yeah, having your breasts cut off is akin to having your penis and testicles cut off.


----------



## pastasauce79

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> No, it's not like getting a man's penis and testicles cut off.


Having your ovaries removed is like having your testicles cut off.


----------



## Openminded

It doesn’t matter what should be. It matters what is.


----------



## Eg78

I know, that's what I keep telling myself, it's just hard cause I know its causing grief for my kids and they are the world to me. I'm trying to give them everything and make sure they understand that mommy and daddy love them more than anything, I tell them all the time. It's just the side handed comments she's constantly making trying to guilt me into taking her back like that's gonna fix the world.


DownByTheRiver said:


> Good. Look I know this is a guilt-ridden situation. But there is just no reason to feel guilty about the children if you're taking care of them 50% of the time. Kids don't know what's best. And she very well may be influencing or putting words in their mouth. Don't let the guilt get to you. This just hasn't been working and you can't save her. As long as you're taking care of those kids, you have a right to do what makes you happier.


Thank you, that made me feel so much better to hear.


pastasauce79 said:


> My father is also a cancer survivor. He got lymphoma of the nose. Nothing related to his genitals. He's been in remission for two years, and sex is not in his thoughts yet. So I guess this is not unusual.
> 
> I don't know the OP's wife's treatment other than surgery, but if she went through chemo and radiation, it depends how her body reacted to the treatment. It might take her more than 6 years to get back to "normal" and since her ovaries were removed, she has 0 hormones in her tank. And who knows, having HRT might be dangerous for her. Without hormones, she might never feel like having sex again.
> 
> I understand, this is sad for both of them. The OP didn't say what kind of support his wife got post partum, post oophorectomy, and post mastectomy. Holy cow! I can't imagine going through that.
> 
> Women's emotions, behavior, sexiness, depend heavily on hormonal balance, this is why most doctors recommend HRT after removing the ovaries. But again, what if she's not supposed to have any HRT? What then?
> 
> I understand what they are going through. What I don't understand is not showing compassion (he doesn't seem compassionate) for a spouse who's been through a lot physically and psychologically.


If I wasn't compassionate I would have left a long time ago. She was sick 7 years ago, I stuck with her through thick and thin, took care of her, took care of the kids, took care of the house, took care of my family. I failed to mention that the no sex behavior started before she got sick. In fact it started exactly when we found out my daughter was going to be born with problems. So it was a year and a half to 2 years of no sex and no intimacy before she got any diagnosis. 

Who took care of me? Am I crazy?

I was 35 years old with 2 young kids at home playing mommy, daddy, nurse and housekeeper and not getting any of my needs met emotionally or physically. Please don't claim to know what that means to a 35 year old man if you've never been there.

This was the hardest decision I've ever made, and I'm destroyed when I think about what it's doing to my kids. My 7yo seems fine and happy for now... My 10yo is devastated and apparently cries to her mom that she misses me, funny how she doesn't cry to me saying she misses mommy (well not really funny). Anyways... Not sure what I was looking for with this post, but lots of good opinions and input. Thanks, I feel a little better. I just hope with time my daughter accepts this and doesn't resent me for it.


----------



## moulinyx

@Eg78 

You will always have extreme replies here, but 6 years of feeling like your spouse isn't trying would be hard on anyone. If a woman complains about their husband's lack of drive, everyone rallies around then. I remember a thread here started by a woman married to a man recovering from prostate cancer who refused to have sex, and the replies were very different. 

We all have our breaking point and the lack of affection/involvement was yours. Your posts sound exhausted both mentally and physically. As for the total hysterectomy, there are so many medical options to fix the libido problems. She just has to care enough to do it. She chose to have you "deal" after all of the years of support. I think it makes total sense why you feel burnt out and empty after your own cup hasn't been refilled in years.


----------



## Diana7

moulinyx said:


> @Eg78
> 
> You will always have extreme replies here, but 6 years of feeling like your spouse isn't trying would be hard on anyone. If a woman complains about their husband's lack of drive, everyone rallies around then. I remember a thread here started by a woman married to a man recovering from prostate cancer who refused to have sex, and the replies were very different.
> 
> We all have our breaking point and the lack of affection/involvement was yours. Your posts sound exhausted both mentally and physically. As for the total hysterectomy, there are so many medical options to fix the libido problems. She just has to care enough to do it. She chose to have you "deal" after all of the years of support. I think it makes total sense why you feel burnt out and empty after your own cup hasn't been refilled in years.


I dont remember the thread you mention, but for some of us the advise would be the same I think. 
I just dont think I could ever end a marriage to a spouse who had been though such a dreadful time, especially as there are children to think of.


----------



## Diana7

Eg78 said:


> I know, that's what I keep telling myself, it's just hard cause I know its causing grief for my kids and they are the world to me. I'm trying to give them everything and make sure they understand that mommy and daddy love them more than anything, I tell them all the time. It's just the side handed comments she's constantly making trying to guilt me into taking her back like that's gonna fix the world.
> 
> Thank you, that made me feel so much better to hear.
> 
> If I wasn't compassionate I would have left a long time ago. She was sick 7 years ago, I stuck with her through thick and thin, took care of her, took care of the kids, took care of the house, took care of my family. I failed to mention that the no sex behavior started before she got sick. In fact it started exactly when we found out my daughter was going to be born with problems. So it was a year and a half to 2 years of no sex and no intimacy before she got any diagnosis.
> 
> Who took care of me? Am I crazy?
> 
> I was 35 years old with 2 young kids at home playing mommy, daddy, nurse and housekeeper and not getting any of my needs met emotionally or physically. Please don't claim to know what that means to a 35 year old man if you've never been there.
> 
> This was the hardest decision I've ever made, and I'm destroyed when I think about what it's doing to my kids. My 7yo seems fine and happy for now... My 10yo is devastated and apparently cries to her mom that she misses me, funny how she doesn't cry to me saying she misses mommy (well not really funny). Anyways... Not sure what I was looking for with this post, but lots of good opinions and input. Thanks, I feel a little better. I just hope with time my daughter accepts this and doesn't resent me for it.


I can fully believe that the child is crying and upset though, I am sure that isnt being made up. I have seen many children whose parents divorced terribly upset and hurt. Its totally rocks and devastates the very foundations of their lives. Sharing their care 50/50 wont make that go away.
One son of a friend whose husband left starting wetting the bed, he hadnt done that for years. I used to baby sit for him. Another family I used to baby sit for had the same, the boy was deeply unhappy and wet the bed so much that his room smelt. I felt so bad for him.

End the marriage if you must, but dont underestimate the damage (short and long term), that you are doing. As far as they are concerned you have left and abandoned them no matter what you say to them, and if you were to meet someone else in the future and have another child, or if she has children with her, they will feel even more abandoned. 

I will never ever understand how anyone can move out and leave their children.


----------



## Eg78

Diana7 said:


> I can fully believe that the child is crying and upset though, I am sure that isnt being made up. I have seen many children whose parents divorced terribly upset and hurt. Its totally rocks and devastates the very foundations of their lives. Sharing their care wont make that go away.
> One son of a friend whose husband left starting wetting the bed, he hadnt done that for years. I used to baby sit for him. Another family I used to baby sit for had the same, the boy was deeply unhappy and wet the bed so much that his room smelt. I felt so bad for him.
> End the marriage if you must, but dont underestimate the damage (short and long term), that you are doing.
> 
> I will never ever understand how anyone can move out and leave their children.


I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.


----------



## Diana7

Eg78 said:


> I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.


You left their mother and destroyed the family unit. Parenting should be full time not 3 days a week. OK there are serious things that happen such as severe abuse and adultery that sometimes mean a marriage must end, but not here. 
I am just wondering if there is another lady now on the scene, be honest.


----------



## Eg78

Diana7 said:


> You left their mother and destroyed the family unit. Parenting should be full time not 3 days a week. OK there are serious things that happen such as severe abuse and adultery that sometimes mean a marriage must end, but not here.
> I am just wondering if there is another lady now on the scene, be honest.


Yes, of course there is. Thought that was implied


----------



## DTO

frusdil said:


> I'm not saying she's a perfect wife, part of the marital issues are due to her health, I get that, but come on.
> 
> OP she's your WIFE. The mother of your children. You owe her the chance to try to make this right. You owe her that much.


Ok then, so what is "making it right"? What is enough time?

If sex continues to be 2x per year, should he be happy with that? 

If he's already doing 75% of everything, what more does his wife need to invest that extra time in improving their relationship?


----------



## DTO

Diana7 said:


> Actually its not sexual immorality. so isnt grounds for divorce.


Actually yes it is, for a Christian anyways.

The standard is to be intimate regularly unless by mutual consent, often enough so that your partner isn't left to be tempted to stray.


----------



## Eg78

DTO said:


> Ok then, so what is "making it right"? What is enough time?
> 
> If sex continues to be 2x per year, should he be happy with that?
> 
> If he's already doing 75% of everything, what more does his wife need to invest that extra time in improving their relationship?


This


----------



## Openminded

At the end of the day, it’s your life and we aren’t the ones living it.


----------



## Affaircare

@Eg78,

Here's my two cents. I was married to a smart, loving, funny man who was diagnosed with heart failure (he passed away in 2017). We were married a total of 12 years, and over the final 5 years, he gradually was able to do less and less... I made a vow to love him until death parted us, and I honored that vow--I meant it--and you bet that as he got more and more ill, we were more and more limited as to what we could do sexually. YEAH, that was frustrating for me, as I was relatively healthy. But to me the BIG, GIGANTIC difference that almost no one is mentioning in this thread is that during the years as my hubby was dying, HE STAYED IN THE RELATIONSHIP. There wasn't as much that he could do, but what he COULD do...he DID do! I doesn't sound to me as if your wife stayed in the relationship. 

From what it sounds like, you two had a horrendously difficult marriage. People are forgetting that it wasn't just "her" child that had surgery at 6 days old...it was YOUR child too! You had to deal with that too, and you didn't check out of the relationship. She had the cancer and the mastectomy and the treatments, but you had to deal with that too--caring for and watching the suffering of a loved one, and you didn't check out of the relationship. I suspect that if your wife had stayed engaged and done what she could do (even if it was only a little) you would have understood, to some degree. After all a relationship means that the two people RELATE.

Let's be honest--being the care-giver is gut-wrenchingly hard. What helps people get through times like these, when the sex is lower, is that they are connected STRONGLY in other intimate ways. Swinging from the chandeliers is not in the cards anymore, but participating and enjoying maybe slower, softer techniques might be... so couples that survive share what they can. And if there's only one technique available, couples that survive connect with laughter, with sharing thoughts and feelings, and with expressing love and interest! I mean geez--couples in the nursing home may or may not have the physicality to have intercourse, but when they love each other, it is mutual and both make the effort to DO WHAT THEY CAN: holding hands, kissing (passionately--not "cheek pecks"), speaking lovingly to each other, helping each other, laughing, and kidding around! 

That's not what happened here. Yes, what happened to both of you was HARD...but after giving your wife ten years of trying and plenty of time to check back in, you're done. Now...if you are leaving due to meeting another woman...that is a whole other ball of wax.


----------



## LisaDiane

Affaircare said:


> @Eg78,
> 
> Here's my two cents. I was married to a smart, loving, funny man who was diagnosed with heart failure (he passed away in 2017). We were married a total of 12 years, and over the final 5 years, he gradually was able to do less and less... I made a vow to love him until death parted us, and I honored that vow--I meant it--and you bet that as he got more and more ill, we were more and more limited as to what we could do sexually. YEAH, that was frustrating for me, as I was relatively healthy. But to me the BIG, GIGANTIC difference that almost no one is mentioning in this thread is that during the years as my hubby was dying, HE STAYED IN THE RELATIONSHIP. There wasn't as much that he could do, but what he COULD do...he DID do! I doesn't sound to me as if your wife stayed in the relationship.
> 
> From what it sounds like, you two had a horrendously difficult marriage. People are forgetting that it wasn't just "her" child that had surgery at 6 days old...it was YOUR child too! You had to deal with that too, and you didn't check out of the relationship. She had the cancer and the mastectomy and the treatments, but you had to deal with that too--caring for and watching the suffering of a loved one, and you didn't check out of the relationship. I suspect that if your wife had stayed engaged and done what she could do (even if it was only a little) you would have understood, to some degree. After all a relationship means that the two people RELATE.
> 
> Let's be honest--being the care-giver is gut-wrenchingly hard. What helps people get through times like these, when the sex is lower, is that they are connected STRONGLY in other intimate ways. Swinging from the chandeliers is not in the cards anymore, but participating and enjoying maybe slower, softer techniques might be... so couples that survive share what they can. And if there's only one technique available, couples that survive connect with laughter, with sharing thoughts and feelings, and with expressing love and interest! I mean geez--couples in the nursing home may or may not have the physicality to have intercourse, but when they love each other, it is mutual and both make the effort to DO WHAT THEY CAN: holding hands, kissing (passionately--not "cheek pecks"), speaking lovingly to each other, helping each other, laughing, and kidding around!
> 
> That's not what happened here. Yes, what happened to both of you was HARD...but after giving your wife ten years of trying and plenty of time to check back in, you're done. Now...if you are leaving due to meeting another woman...that is a whole other ball of wax.


I LOVE this!!!!! I'm SO happy you posted!!! 💗


----------



## Diana7

Eg78 said:


> Yes, of course there is. Thought that was implied


Nope, but thought so as most men dont leave their wives unless they have another lady on the go. So basically you committed adultery.


----------



## aine

Wolfman1968 said:


> Please reread his post talking about that. In describing his situation since moving out, he said (assume in response to a post saying he could get 50/50 custody) that they are already doing 50/50, that he worked from home so could spend MORE time with the kids, and that he was actually doing 75% "leading up to this".
> 
> I take his post to mean that, at the end of their relationship/just before moving out, HE was doing 75%. Since the end of the relationship/him moving out is 6 years after his wife had her cancer/surgery, then I'm not sure why you think that he should be sympathetic about an intolerable situation brought about by her lack of compassion for her husband.
> 
> In the throes of illness? Of course, he needs to be supportive and sympathetic to his wife during the crisis. He'd be a horrible person if he wasn't supportive. But 6 years later? She needs to be making more of an effort to the relationship. But he says they had 10 episodes of intimacy over 5 years, and she incessantly rejected him. Doesn't sound like she was making an effort. I would think that the OP needs the sympathy 6 years later, not his wife.



It appears to me you understand little about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and then a hysterotomy to boot and early onset menopause which can last for years and years (all at the age of 35!). her body, mind and emotions were probably decimated. Imagine your scrotum was surgically removed and your testosterone goes with it. Imagine you feel less of a man. How do you think you would manage if your wife kept reminding you that you were not having enough sex?


----------



## Diana7

DTO said:


> Actually yes it is, for a Christian anyways.
> 
> The standard is to be intimate regularly unless by mutual consent, often enough so that your partner isn't left to be tempted to stray.


Sorry but no where in the bible does ti say that if we dont get the amount of sex we want we can end the marriage. I agree that in ideal circumstances there should be a regular sex life, but things happen that can cause problems such as sickness, accidents, depression, medical issues, sick children etc In the OP's case it seems he was in a relationship with another woman while still married, which is far far worse. No wonder his wife and children are upset.
He is trying here to justify his affair it seems.


----------



## aine

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Are you saying a W that's had breast cancer can't be a sexual person?





Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> If you itrw had breast cancer and survived, you would see things differently. Periods of happiness and simple pleasures would take a whole new deeper meaning.
> 
> No, it's not like getting a man's penis and testicles cut off.
> 
> Why would you say these things?
> 
> Is your whole meaning of life solely in your breasts?


taken from a peer reviewed medical journal. Impact of mastectomy include "fear of cancer, feeling of body incompleteness, inconvenience in working and social communication, less sexual acts and low spirit).


----------



## Diana7

aine said:


> taken from a peer reviewed medical journal. Impact of mastectomy include "fear of cancer, feeling of body incompleteness, inconvenience in working and social communication, less sexual acts and low spirit).


The OP doesnt care, he has a new lover.


----------



## aine

pastasauce79 said:


> Having your ovaries removed is like having your testicles cut off.


No it is not, they are an internal organ not seen, nor used except for procreating. Breasts are a physical manifestation of the female form and are very very important, just like your outward appendage is very important. For men the visual is important, and they are not looking at ovaries!


----------



## aine

Diana7 said:


> The OP doesnt care, he has a new lover.


where did he say that? I wish he had come out and said it upfront. If it is true then he was using this forum to simply justify his actions, he is a more horrible human being than I thought he was from reading between the lines.
@Eg78 If it is true you have a new lover, then I stand by everything I said and more. Stop rewriting history of your past to justify your current actions. You have been disingenuous in your opening post and lied (by omission) to everyone. More evidence of your lack of character. You are actually doing your STBXW a big favour. I pray that she will meet a man of good character and in years to come you will see her happy and blossoming because someone took the time to actually care.


----------



## aine

Eg78 said:


> Yes, of course there is. Thought that was implied


How long has the other woman been on the scene? Would she have anything to do with getting rid of your long suffering wife?


----------



## Diana7

aine said:


> where did he say that? I wish he had come out and said it upfront. If it is true then he was using this forum to simply justify his actions, he is a more horrible human being than I thought he was from reading between the lines.
> @Eg78 If it is true you have a new lover, then I stand by everything I said and more. Stop rewriting history of your past to justify your current actions. You have been disingenuous in your opening post and lied (by omission) to everyone. More evidence of your lack of character. You are actually doing your STBXW a big favour. I pray that she will meet a man of good character and in years to come you will see her happy and blossoming because someone took the time to actually care.


When I asked about another woman he said 'of course there is, thought that was implied'. Eh no you conveniently didnt mention it AT ALL.

The very least he could have done was to end one marriage first before before starting a new relationship. Interesting how he was ok to stay in the marriage before the OW came along and suddenly he wasnt and is now trying to justify his affair. What sort of woman is ok with causing a man to leave his family for her anyway? To date another womens husband? To committ adultery?


----------



## Eg78

Just to clarify, the new woman is 2 months old, I never cheated on my wife before we seperated.



Please stop with the judgement and being judge jury and executioner all mighty Diana.


----------



## Wolfman1968

aine said:


> It appears to me you understand little about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and then a hysterotomy to boot and early onset menopause which can last for years and years (all at the age of 35!). her body, mind and emotions were probably decimated. Imagine your scrotum was surgically removed and your testosterone goes with it. Imagine you feel less of a man. How do you think you would manage if your wife kept reminding you that you were not having enough sex?


Actually, i DO understand quite a bit about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and ovaries. (According to OP, she had oophorectomies, NOT a hysterectomy). Mrs. Wolfman has had to undergo bilateral mastectomies with reconstruction and an oophorectomy for an abnormal precancerous ovarian growth. And, FWIW, she underwent menopause in her early 40s before her surgeries. So, your assumption is 100% wrong.

Despite that, Mrs. Wolfman has remained committed to the relationship in every way, including emotional and physical intimacy. She understands the importance of that to keep a marriage strong. What's more, it's important to HER as well, it's not just something done for my benefit.

I am not seeing that level of commitment to the marriage relationship, the commitment to intimacy, nor the concern and care of OP from the OP's wife (from the descriptions submitted). So I think I am in a good position to say that the OP's wife is not rising to the level of someone truly committed to the relationship, SIX YEARS after the event. Mrs. Wolfman and I have lived through her life change and addressed it successfully. In my opinion, OP's wife has NOT made the transition, and likely has not made the effort. I can speculate as to why, but regardless of the why, she hasn't, and, as Mrs. Wolfman demonstrates, the trauma of such surgery alone is not an adequate explanation.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Still say he's right in his title - quite the asshole. And for those who asked how this would help him, it will more so than condoning what he has done - it might prompt him to get help (as opposed to hearing "oh you poor man having to masturbate until your wife recovers from not just the illnesses but the accompanying trauma").

Maybe to fully understand this one of us men would need to lose both balls and part of the penis while maybe developing breasts. And then being treated for it while wifey decides she really cannot do without sex and goes off and finds someone new (not before leaving the household of course).


----------



## pastasauce79

aine said:


> No it is not, they are an internal organ not seen, nor used except for procreating. Breasts are a physical manifestation of the female form and are very very important, just like your outward appendage is very important. For men the visual is important, and they are not looking at ovaries!


I meant both parts produce vital hormones needed to have a normal life.


----------



## Evinrude58

Op,
You should have mentioned the new woman.
I’m not judging you. 
if you tried fir six years and have had sex a handful of tubes with your wife and felt like you were at a dead end and your wife made zero effort to make you feel loved, I can understand you getting out. Only you and your wife know whether you divorcing her is justified. I have no clue why you chose to marry a woman that rarely showed you any romantic interest sexually. I hope you choose more wisely this time. I do think that your gf is kinda suspect, dating a separated man with kids.... but not my place to judge that either.

will you marry again? Knowing it’s value is equated to “just a piece of paper”...?


----------



## pastasauce79

Eg78 said:


> I stuck with her through thick and thin, took care of her, took care of the kids, took care of the house, took care of my family. I failed to mention that the no sex behavior started before she got sick. In fact it started exactly when we found out my daughter was going to be born with problems. So it was a year and a half to 2 years of no sex and no


Spouses should take care of each other, the kids, the house whether they are sick or not. I understand! I do the same when my husband is sick.

It seems that you (and many men) are really clueless about what happens to women while pregnant. I'm guessing your wife went through a scary situation that trigger fear and anxiety. Probably she associated sex with hurting the baby. Pregnancy hormones and post partum hormones are a pain in the b*tt! I was told to never underestimate the power of hormones and I was a mess while pregnant! 

I feel terrible both of you didn't recognize the problem when it started. You guys could have had a chance if you both looked for help right away. 

Since you are done and dating already, at least make sure she gets some type of individual therapy. Make sure she has a support system in place.

I hope she can get better and find another man. No one deserves to lose so much in so little time. I'm really, really sad for her.


----------



## PieceOfSky

Eg78 said:


> Yes, of course there is. Thought that was implied


Why did you think that was implied? Makes no sense to me from what I read.

Also you speak of having moved out, being separated, and being divorced (past tense).

_*I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.*_

And you also suggest reconciling your marriage is a possibility:

_*I'm not sure what do to. I don't want to reconcile the marriage and be bored*_

You also say you’ve only been seeing your gf for 2 months, and that didn’t happen until your wife and you were separated. Yet, you didn’t “start living separately” until October 1st.

Seems like an oddly confusing way to communicate, destined to trigger people.

Are you divorced?


----------



## moulinyx

Yikes.

Dating while still legally married is gross. I was on your side, but that is in poor taste. You at least owed your wife the respect of honoring marriage until it is over legally.

Pretty disrespectful. Two months is nothing.


----------



## Diana7

Eg78 said:


> Just to clarify, the new woman is 2 months old, I never cheated on my wife before we seperated.
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop with the judgement and being judge jury and executioner all mighty Diana.


You separated last month you said, so you were clearly with your lover before that. Unless you want us to believe that you actually met her on October 2nd the day you left your wife? (Even though that still isnt near 2 months).Come on now, people here are not stupid. I hope you have told your wife that you cheated on her and still are, and I hope you have told the children why you left but I doubt you have.
Sorry but someone who meets another woman and then breaks up their family for her deserves no sympathy at all. You are still married so you are committing adultery.
Relationships that begin with cheating rarely last. She is cheating with another women's husband and you are cheating on your wife while having only just separated and not even getting divorced. Therefore you both have lots of potential to cheat on each other later on.

I suspect that you have known this woman for some time, but you havent been at all honest in this thread so I doubt you will be this time either.


----------



## Diana7

PieceOfSky said:


> Why did you think that was implied? Makes no sense to me from what I read.
> 
> Also you speak of having moved out, being separated, and being divorced (past tense).
> 
> _*I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.*_
> 
> And you also suggest reconciling your marriage is a possibility:
> 
> _*I'm not sure what do to. I don't want to reconcile the marriage and be bored*_
> 
> You also say you’ve only been seeing your gf for 2 months, and that didn’t happen until your wife and you were separated. Yet, you didn’t “start living separately” until October 1st.
> 
> Seems like an oddly confusing way to communicate, destined to trigger people.
> 
> Are you divorced?


Dont think he is as he said 'Just to clarify, the new woman is 2 months old, I never cheated on my wife before we seperated.'


----------



## Diana7

pastasauce79 said:


> Spouses should take care of each other, the kids, the house whether they are sick or not. I understand! I do the same when my husband is sick.
> 
> It seems that you (and many men) are really clueless about what happens to women while pregnant. I'm guessing your wife went through a scary situation that trigger fear and anxiety. Probably she associated sex with hurting the baby. Pregnancy hormones and post partum hormones are a pain in the b*tt! I was told to never underestimate the power of hormones and I was a mess while pregnant!
> 
> I feel terrible both of you didn't recognize the problem when it started. You guys could have had a chance if you both looked for help right away.
> 
> Since you are done and dating already, at least make sure she gets some type of individual therapy. Make sure she has a support system in place.
> 
> I hope she can get better and find another man. No one deserves to lose so much in so little time. I'm really, really sad for her.


Yes same here.


----------



## aine

Diana7 said:


> You separated last month you said, so you were clearly with your lover before that. Unless you want us to believe that you actually met her on October 2nd the day you left your wife? (Even though that still isnt near 2 months).Come on now, people here are not stupid. I hope you have told your wife that you cheated on her and still are, and I hope you have told the children why you left but I doubt you have.
> Sorry but someone who meets another woman and then breaks up their family for her deserves no sympathy at all. You are still married so you are committing adultery.
> Relationships that begin with cheating rarely last. She is cheating with another women's husband and you are cheating while having only just separated and not even getting divorced. Therefore you both have lots of potential to cheat on each other later on.
> 
> I suspect that you have known this woman for some time, but you havent been at all honest in this thread so I doubt you will be this time either.


Tend to agree with Diana here, you just didn't go out and fall into someone else's arms. This was cooking for some time but being the disingenuous person you are you were not upfront with the information and misled the people on here. You sound selfish and entitled but I wish you good luck. You say you don't want to be bored in the marriage. You are so full of ****. I really grieve for your poor wife who has had a lot to deal with. However I think it will be good for her to be away from you and hopefully have the opportunity to meet someone else. Your kids will love you of course, kids normally love their parents regardless of how ****ty their characters are. However when they are old enough to understand the circumstances I am not so sure they will really see you in a good light. I know my kids wouldn't.
Actually still do not know what the OP is looking for? Absolution? You have made up your mind, have another woman, all is good.


----------



## aine

Wolfman1968 said:


> Actually, i DO understand quite a bit about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and ovaries. (According to OP, she had oophorectomies, NOT a hysterectomy). Mrs. Wolfman has had to undergo bilateral mastectomies with reconstruction and an oophorectomy for an abnormal precancerous ovarian growth. And, FWIW, she underwent menopause in her early 40s before her surgeries. So, your assumption is 100% wrong.
> 
> Despite that, Mrs. Wolfman has remained committed to the relationship in every way, including emotional and physical intimacy. She understands the importance of that to keep a marriage strong. What's more, it's important to HER as well, it's not just something done for my benefit.
> 
> I am not seeing that level of commitment to the marriage relationship, the commitment to intimacy, nor the concern and care of OP from the OP's wife (from the descriptions submitted). So I think I am in a good position to say that the OP's wife is not rising to the level of someone truly committed to the relationship, SIX YEARS after the event. Mrs. Wolfman and I have lived through her life change and addressed it successfully. In my opinion, OP's wife has NOT made the transition, and likely has not made the effort. I can speculate as to why, but regardless of the why, she hasn't, and, as Mrs. Wolfman demonstrates, the trauma of such surgery alone is not an adequate explanation.


The mitigating factor I think may be in the way the husband treats the wife through the whole ordeal. You @Wolfman1968 sound like a solid, decent and supportive man, someone who upheld his wife through her troubles and did not complain of boredom (yes he used that word) nor threatened to divorce his wife for a year. We are talking about men of different mettles. I commend you for your level of commitment also. A wife who has gone through such an experience needs love and support not threats and selfishness. The OPs character would appear to be very far from yours therefore I would dare to say a man gets what he gives.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

aine said:


> taken from a peer reviewed medical journal. Impact of mastectomy include "fear of cancer, feeling of body incompleteness, inconvenience in working and social communication, less sexual acts and low spirit).


All obvious challenges. What's your point?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

manfromlamancha said:


> Really? You cannot see that she has been through a lot as a result of the cancer and other life challenges. Instead of helping her heal, seeing her through to wellness and then acting on the needs of his "other brain from the little head", he wants to bail now while he can still screw !


Why do you believe that her cancer is her only defining trait?


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> My father is also a cancer survivor. He got lymphoma of the nose. Nothing related to his genitals. He's been in remission for two years, and sex is not in his thoughts yet. So I guess this is not unusual.
> 
> I don't know the OP's wife's treatment other than surgery, but if she went through chemo and radiation, it depends how her body reacted to the treatment. It might take her more than 6 years to get back to "normal" and since her ovaries were removed, she has 0 hormones in her tank. And who knows, having HRT might be dangerous for her. Without hormones, she might never feel like having sex again.
> 
> I understand, this is sad for both of them. The OP didn't say what kind of support his wife got post partum, post oophorectomy, and post mastectomy. Holy cow! I can't imagine going through that.
> 
> Women's emotions, behavior, sexiness, depend heavily on hormonal balance, this is why most doctors recommend HRT after removing the ovaries. But again, what if she's not supposed to have any HRT? What then?
> 
> I understand what they are going through. What I don't understand is not showing compassion (he doesn't seem compassionate) for a spouse who's been through a lot physically and psychologically.


You've captured very accurately many of the relevant challenges and the very scary items a cancer patient and their SO go through imho.

In reading OPs thread, nothing has been indicated that he hasn't been supportive and caring for years and for some reason that may, just may, be outside of the cancer challenges and he sees that something is missing in the M beyond cancer and is getting concerned.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> Having your ovaries removed is like having your testicles cut off.


No, not really.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

lucy999 said:


> I know this question wasn't for me, but I'll provide my own answer if you don't mind.
> 
> No, the whole meaning of life isn't related solely to our breasts, but the issue, according to the OP, is no sex. For many women (and let's face it--men), breasts are very sexual. So in this case, they are indeed the be all, end all.
> 
> So, speaking in the very narrow subject of a sex life and not a general life view, yeah, having your breasts





lucy999 said:


> I know this question wasn't for me, but I'll provide my own answer if you don't mind.
> 
> No, the whole meaning of life isn't related solely to our breasts, but the issue, according to the OP, is no sex. For many women (and let's face it--men), breasts are very sexual. So in this case, they are indeed the be all, end all.
> 
> So, speaking in the very narrow subject of a sex life and not a general life view, yeah, having your breasts cut off is akin to having your penis and testicles cut off.


Well, no, the similarities outside of the fact that they are all in the category of sexual related organs.

The huge differences include the fact that a patient's life after each, if your comparing, is very, very different. You're too focused.

Itrw if one has personally gone through and going through the cancer horror one's perspective is tremendously different that one imagining what it's like.

My dear W had breast cancer, double mastectomy, and she had large, voluptuous, very attractive breasts. 

Later after many trials and treatments to not, she had to have a hysterectomy. 

Surgeries and treatments saved her life. Other friends with breast cancer have sadly past from the cancer through the years.

This story isn't mine to share, so rarely I do.

The joys in life are greater, the love is sweeter, after a couple goes through this. 

It doesn't make a couple immune to other trials and challenges that exist outside the cancer bubble but it colors ones viewpoint. 

My W is outstanding in many ways. She's not perfect. I'm certainly not perfect. 

We've been blessed to overcome many trials. I know personally that cancer is a heavy physical and psychological burden first for the patient and secondly for the SO and family. 

But one still lives and can celebrate time together if choose to do so.

Dear W and I have an outstanding sex life. Frequency is high, quality is great. We chose to overcome and persevere. It's not because of any super successful reconstructive surgery. That didn't go well and we chose (she, with my 100% encouragement and agreement with whatever she wanted) not risk her life with more surgeries.

We now have grandkids, a good life, and live beyond the scars.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Eg78 said:


> I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.


I think your wife is telling you sob stories and exaggerating things because she doesn't want the separation and ensuing divorce. Maybe your daughter cried a couple of times but jeez, that's expected. What kid jumps for joy when their parents divorce? Like anything, she'll adjust.

Did your wife just think you were going to live as cousins or roommates for the rest of your lives? Is she *THAT *deluded?


----------



## Eg78

Wolfman1968 said:


> Actually, i DO understand quite a bit about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and ovaries. (According to OP, she had oophorectomies, NOT a hysterectomy). Mrs. Wolfman has had to undergo bilateral mastectomies with reconstruction and an oophorectomy for an abnormal precancerous ovarian growth. And, FWIW, she underwent menopause in her early 40s before her surgeries. So, your assumption is 100% wrong.
> 
> Despite that, Mrs. Wolfman has remained committed to the relationship in every way, including emotional and physical intimacy. She understands the importance of that to keep a marriage strong. What's more, it's important to HER as well, it's not just something done for my benefit.
> 
> I am not seeing that level of commitment to the marriage relationship, the commitment to intimacy, nor the concern and care of OP from the OP's wife (from the descriptions submitted). So I think I am in a good position to say that the OP's wife is not rising to the level of someone truly committed to the relationship, SIX YEARS after the event. Mrs. Wolfman and I have lived through her life change and addressed it successfully. In my opinion, OP's wife has NOT made the transition, and likely has not made the effort. I can speculate as to why, but regardless of the why, she hasn't, and, as Mrs. Wolfman demonstrates, the trauma of such surgery alone is not an adequate explanation.





She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think your wife is telling you sob stories and exaggerating things because she doesn't want the separation and ensuing divorce. Maybe your daughter cried a couple of times but jeez, that's expected. What kid jumps for joy when their parents divorce? Like anything, she'll adjust.
> 
> Did your wife just think you were going to live as cousins or roommates for the rest of your lives? Is she *THAT *deluded?


Thank you that's what I'm thinking too.


----------



## Eg78

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> You've captured very accurately many of the relevant challenges and the very scary items a cancer patient and their SO go through imho.
> 
> In reading OPs thread, nothing has been indicated that he hasn't been supportive and caring for years and for some reason that may, just may, be outside of the cancer challenges and he sees that something is missing in the M beyond cancer and is getting concerned.


This is correct


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

Wolfman1968 said:


> Actually, i DO understand quite a bit about the trauma of removing someone's breasts and ovaries. (According to OP, she had oophorectomies, NOT a hysterectomy). Mrs. Wolfman has had to undergo bilateral mastectomies with reconstruction and an oophorectomy for an abnormal precancerous ovarian growth. And, FWIW, she underwent menopause in her early 40s before her surgeries. So, your assumption is 100% wrong.
> 
> Despite that, Mrs. Wolfman has remained committed to the relationship in every way, including emotional and physical intimacy. She understands the importance of that to keep a marriage strong. What's more, it's important to HER as well, it's not just something done for my benefit.
> 
> I am not seeing that level of commitment to the marriage relationship, the commitment to intimacy, nor the concern and care of OP from the OP's wife (from the descriptions submitted). So I think I am in a good position to say that the OP's wife is not rising to the level of someone truly committed to the relationship, SIX YEARS after the event. Mrs. Wolfman and I have lived through her life change and addressed it successfully. In my opinion, OP's wife has NOT made the transition, and likely has not made the effort. I can speculate as to why, but regardless of the why, she hasn't, and, as Mrs. Wolfman demonstrates, the trauma of such surgery alone is not an adequate explanation.


Well said. 

Mrs. Ragnar, too. And we're loving life, together.


----------



## pastasauce79

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> But one still lives and can celebrate time together if choose to do so.


Im guessing she was in a terrible state of mind while pregnant, after getting her daughter's diagnosis, and things went downhill from there. If she didn't get the psychological support she needed then she couldn't celebrate life! 

She's probably been in a deep depressive mode since then. Poor woman.


----------



## Ragnar Ragnasson

pastasauce79 said:


> Im guessing she was in a terrible state of mind while pregnant, after getting her daughter's diagnosis, and things went downhill from there. If she didn't get the psychological support she needed then she couldn't celebrate life!
> 
> She's probably been in a deep depressive mode since then. Poor woman.


Many challenges that's not in question. 

At some point a person has to decide to try and get some balance back. That sounds harsh in some respects but isn't intended to be but a wake up call.

Certainly nothing but compassion and love for her, and the marriage. I hope things get better for both.


----------



## Evinrude58

Still no answer to this from OP:

why did you marry a woman that never has had sex with you except apparently to procreate, and then after 10 years, suddenly use no sex to justify your having an affair and leaving?

I’d have never married a frigid woman as you describe. But I hope to think I wouldn’t marry her, have kids with her, then and fly the coop.

its good that you’re taking care of your kids, and you took care of your wife when she was sick. I just don’t get why after all that, would you meet someone and cut and run?

Why did you marry her to start off with?
If you loved her in spite of no sex before, why is it that you can’t lOve her now? According to you, she hasn’t changed a bit from the woman you married!

All the talk about the poor woman and cancer and this and that..... she’s apparently over it. Her husband was there for her. Does getting sick guarantee a free ride in a relationship forever, without showing any emotions for one’s spouse, or sharing any kind of physical intimacy?
I don’t think a lot of people would want to live as roommates, regardless of the circumstances. Everyone needs some love.

However, since I’m seeing a lack of logic, and clear obfuscation in the OP’s story regarding the other woman—— I’m starting to doubt how “loveless” OP’s wife really was.

Would you bother to clarify some of these things, EG?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Why do you believe that her cancer is her only defining trait?


I'm not sure where you got that from but I do know this - as the husband of someone that has been through something very similar I do have some understanding of what it takes to support her - and believe me, sex is the last thing on the agenda.


----------



## DTO

manfromlamancha said:


> I'm not sure where you got that from but I do know this - as the husband of someone that has been through something very similar I do have some understanding of what it takes to support her - and believe me, sex is the last thing on the agenda.


I believe this, but for a finite period. I've been there, done that. Believe me when I tell you that if they aren't back at it in a couple of years it isn't going to happen.


----------



## Diana7

Diana7 said:


> Yes same here.





She'sStillGotIt said:


> I think your wife is telling you sob stories and exaggerating things because she doesn't want the separation and ensuing divorce. Maybe your daughter cried a couple of times but jeez, that's expected. What kid jumps for joy when their parents divorce? Like anything, she'll adjust.
> 
> Did your wife just think you were going to live as cousins or roommates for the rest of your lives? Is she *THAT *deluded?


Thats just not so. As I have said before, I have known many children who were deeply hurt and traumatised by their parents marriage ending and not just for a few weeks. It can and does affect them for years and sometimes for the rest of their lives.


----------



## DTO

Diana7 said:


> Thats just not so. As I have said before, I have known many children who were deeply hurt and traumatised by their parents marriage ending and not just for a few weeks. It can and does affect them for years and sometimes for the rest of their lives.


Yes there is impact. But what's the price of an unhappy home being what's modeled for them?


----------



## Diana7

The fact is that the op met another woman and is breaking up his family to be with her. Before he met this woman he didnt leave or start a divorce. If the marriage was as terrible as he says for as long as he says, then why didnt he do that? Why didnt he end the marriage before looking elsewhere?He now wants us to believe that the OW has nothing to do with him destroying his family even though it clearly does. He wont even be honest about when he first met her. I doubt he has been honest about his cheating to his wife or children either and has deceived us here by telling lies of ommision and other lies not of omission.


----------



## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> Still no answer to this from OP:
> 
> why did you marry a woman that never has had sex with you except apparently to procreate, and then after 10 years, suddenly use no sex to justify your having an affair and leaving?
> 
> I’d have never married a frigid woman as you describe. But I hope to think I wouldn’t marry her, have kids with her, then and fly the coop.
> 
> its good that you’re taking care of your kids, and you took care of your wife when she was sick. I just don’t get why after all that, would you meet someone and cut and run?
> 
> Why did you marry her to start off with?
> If you loved her in spite of no sex before, why is it that you can’t lOve her now? According to you, she hasn’t changed a bit from the woman you married!
> 
> All the talk about the poor woman and cancer and this and that..... she’s apparently over it. Her husband was there for her. Does getting sick guarantee a free ride in a relationship forever, without showing any emotions for one’s spouse, or sharing any kind of physical intimacy?
> I don’t think a lot of people would want to live as roommates, regardless of the circumstances. Everyone needs some love.
> 
> However, since I’m seeing a lack of logic, and clear obfuscation in the OP’s story regarding the other woman—— I’m starting to doubt how “loveless” OP’s wife really was.
> 
> Would you bother to clarify some of these things, EG?


I agree, cheaters will always blame the other spouse as we all know. They will always rewrite the marriage history as well.


----------



## Diana7

DTO said:


> Yes there is impact. But what's the price of an unhappy home being what's modeled for them?


If they are both mature adults they can and should treat each other like mature adults and model that to their children. Breaking up your family for another woman is hardly being a good role model.


----------



## C.C. says ...

_”I’m the asshole”_

Well at least you admitted it.


----------



## DTO

Diana7 said:


> If they are both mature adults they can and should treat each other like mature adults and model that to their children. Breaking up your family for another woman is hardly being a good role model.


It takes two mature adults though. It doesn't appear that OP's wife is doing her part.

I agree two wrongs don't make a right. But more than likely he could wait another 10 years and not see any change. Freezing out your husband then exclaiming "I hope you're happy" is not mature either; more mature would be for her to say "sex is unpleasant for me and I'm not interested in working on it. I'm sorry you aren't happy but I understand."

But what she did is essentially blame him for their problems. She could have avoided this situation by 1) being a wife in every sense of the word or 2) being a 50/50 parent so that his daughter would not miss his presence (he said his kid does not pine for her mom when with him).

So he's left with two bad choices. Wait for his wife to come around (which might be never) or move on.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

manfromlamancha said:


> I'm not sure where you got that from but I do know this - as the husband of someone that has been through something very similar I do have some understanding of what it takes to support her - and believe me, sex is the last thing on the agenda.


And during the terrible physical and emotional trials that is 100% normal imho.

A lot of hugs, time spent together, planning and talking. And resting.

It was three years after the final surgery and treatment before we had sex again.

Respect.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

The hysterectomy was another whole time frame.


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## Diana7

C.C. says ... said:


> _”I’m the asshole”_
> 
> Well at least you admitted it.


In the title at least.


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## Diana7

DTO said:


> It takes two mature adults though. It doesn't appear that OP's wife is doing her part.
> 
> I agree two wrongs don't make a right. But more than likely he could wait another 10 years and not see any change. Freezing out your husband then exclaiming "I hope you're happy" is not mature either; more mature would be for her to say "sex is unpleasant for me and I'm not interested in working on it. I'm sorry you aren't happy but I understand."
> 
> But what she did is essentially blame him for their problems. She could have avoided this situation by 1) being a wife in every sense of the word or 2) being a 50/50 parent so that his daughter would not miss his presence (he said his kid does not pine for her mom when with him).
> 
> So he's left with two bad choices. Wait for his wife to come around (which might be never) or move on.


He is free to end his marriage if he wants, but he should have been honest about leaving his wife for another woman. I guess he knew that wouldnt get the sympathy he wanted.


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## Diana7

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> And during the terrible physical and emotional trials that is 100% normal imho.
> 
> A lot of hugs, time spent together, planning and talking. And resting.
> 
> It was three years after the final surgery and treatment before we had sex again.
> 
> Respect.


Yes my husband's ex was very ill for a long time, no sex for a year. Its part of life and part of marriage when these things happen. No reason to start an affair.


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## lucy999

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> Well, no, the similarities outside of the fact that they are all in the category of sexual related organs.
> 
> The huge differences include the fact that a patient's life after each, if your comparing, is very, very different. You're too focused.
> 
> Itrw if one has personally gone through and going through the cancer horror one's perspective is tremendously different that one imagining what it's like.
> 
> My dear W had breast cancer, double mastectomy, and she had large, voluptuous, very attractive breasts.
> 
> Later after many trials and treatments to not, she had to have a hysterectomy.
> 
> Surgeries and treatments saved her life. Other friends with breast cancer have sadly past from the cancer through the years.
> 
> This story isn't mine to share, so rarely I do.
> 
> The joys in life are greater, the love is sweeter, after a couple goes through this.
> 
> It doesn't make a couple immune to other trials and challenges that exist outside the cancer bubble but it colors ones viewpoint.
> 
> My W is outstanding in many ways. She's not perfect. I'm certainly not perfect.
> 
> We've been blessed to overcome many trials. I know personally that cancer is a heavy physical and psychological burden first for the patient and secondly for the SO and family.
> 
> But one still lives and can celebrate time together if choose to do so.
> 
> Dear W and I have an outstanding sex life. Frequency is high, quality is great. We chose to overcome and persevere. It's not because of any super successful reconstructive surgery. That didn't go well and we chose (she, with my 100% encouragement and agreement with whatever she wanted) not risk her life with more surgeries.
> 
> We now have grandkids, a good life, and live beyond the scars.


You say I'm too focused and I say you're too expansive for the very narrow statement offered up. But it's neither here nor there, really. And I won't belabor the point. It serves no purpose here.

I am happy that you and your wife were able to overcome the herculean health obstacles your wife suffered, and all of the emotional and mental strife that comes with that. I think that's beautiful and wonderful.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

lucy999 said:


> You say I'm too focused and I say you're too expansive for the very narrow statement offered up. But it's neither here nor there, really. And I won't belabor the point. It serves no purpose here.
> 
> I am happy that you and your wife were able to overcome the herculean health obstacles your wife suffered, and all of the emotional and mental strife that comes with that. I think that's beautiful and wonderful.


Ok, and we appreciate all good thoughts. 

My W is so much more than breasts and ovaries. 

You are too. And I know that. 

I just sincerely hope you haven't or never experience it firsthand. 

One cannot heal as much as is possible without realizing we're not just how we look in ALL respects.

👍👍❤❤


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## Openminded

The OP hasn’t said he left his wife for another woman.


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## Diana7

Openminded said:


> The OP hasn’t said he left his wife for another woman.


He separated only last month and already had another woman.


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## Livvie

Diana7 said:


> Yes my husband's ex was very ill for a long time, no sex for a year. Its part of life and part of marriage when these things happen. No reason to start an affair.


WTF.

OP didn't "start an affair".

And, it's been years upon years upon years of no sex.

Your posts are very often judgmental coupled with being untruthful.


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## Openminded

Diana7 said:


> He separated only last month and already had another woman.


Yes, there are people who leave their spouse one day and find someone else the next. He’s the only one who knows the timing — we don’t.


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## Diana7

Livvie said:


> WTF.
> 
> OP didn't "start an affair".
> 
> And, it's been years upon years upon years of no sex.
> 
> Your posts are very often judgmental coupled with being untruthful.


He had only just separated and has had a woman for at least 2 months (probably much longer) so yes he is having an affair.


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## happyhusband0005

Diana7 said:


> He had only just separated and has had a woman for at least 2 months (probably much longer) so yes he is having an affair.


Perhaps the OP will clarify the timing of the new relationship. His two month comment didn't state he started a relationship with the new woman prior to the separation. Perhaps he knew her prior but only took things to the romantic point post separation. If a person is separated and heading for divorce I wouldn't call the new relationship an affair.


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## blahfridge

I read through most of this thread and it seems to me that the OP checked out a long time ago, which is often the case. He went through the motions of marriage counseling, admitting that he wasn't even attracted to his wife anymore. She may indeed share much if not the lion's share of the fault for the demise of the marriage, but without knowing her side, we will never know the complete story.
So when someone comes on here with a story of the long suffering sacrifice that finally lead them to leave, then they eventually mention that, oh by the way, there's another woman already, I react with some skepticism. The OP has no intention of going back to his wife so I'm not sure the purpose of this thread. I suspect it's validation borne of a guilty conscience, perhaps? Hard to know, as I said, without getting the full picture.


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## Diana7

happyhusband0005 said:


> Perhaps the OP will clarify the timing of the new relationship. His two month comment didn't state he started a relationship with the new woman prior to the separation. Perhaps he knew her prior but only took things to the romantic point post separation. If a person is separated and heading for divorce I wouldn't call the new relationship an affair.


They only separated last month. I doubt we will get the truth, he didnt even mention he had a lover till I asked him. Its still an affair because he is still married. He hasnt even mentioned starting a divorce.


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## Diana7

Openminded said:


> Yes, there are people who leave their spouse one day and find someone else the next. He’s the only one who knows the timing — we don’t.


They only separated last month.


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## Ms. Hawaii

Diana7 said:


> They only separated last month.


How do you know? 

OP said they’ve been living separately since October 1st. They could have separated prior to October 1st. 

I honestly don’t get why OP is being crucified. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## happyhusband0005

Diana7 said:


> They only separated last month. I doubt we will get the truth, he didn't even mention he had a lover till I asked him. Its still an affair because he is still married. He hasn't even mentioned starting a divorce.


We can agree to disagree on calling it an affair. If people are separated IMO it's not an affair. The guy went years with essentially no sex is it a shock that he would move into a relationship of some kind quickly, I would say no. Most child psychiatrists will say kids witnessing an unhealthy marriage for years and years is as, if not more damaging long term than being a child of divorce. But it also depends on how the parents handle it. If one parent is poisoning the kids against the other they are the one with more responsibility for the damage that that will cause the kids which is significant. 

One can say they are adults they can stick it out for the kids, and in some circumstances that may be true. However they would also have to be academy award worthy actors, kids learn a lot about relationships from what they witness at home and the are very perceptive and pickup on tension easily, are two people who are just staying together for the kids going to display authentic affection towards each other, are they going to be thoughtful and caring towards each other by default? In reality no, they are going to be indifferent towards each other most of the time and probably crappy towards each other often enough to be a problem.


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## Openminded

Diana7 said:


> They only separated last month.


Maybe it was Oct 1 which is almost two months go and he just rounded up. Maybe he’s counting Oct as the first month and Nov as the second month, so — to him — two months. I don’t know and neither do you. The real question is why you always have to be right.


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## MattMatt

Eg78 said:


> I didn't move out or leave my children. We have 50/50 shared custody and I bought her out of the house and we found her another place. The kids are with me more than 50% of the time. I divorced my wife, I didn't divorce my children.


I feel for you. This must have been tough for you as well as your wife, @Eg78. How long is it since you divorced her?

Is she coping well living by herself? Are the children's rooms there adequately cleaned and looked after?


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## Personal

Diana7 said:


> Yes my husband's ex was very ill for a long time, no sex for a year. Its part of life and part of marriage when these things happen. No reason to start an affair.


If I can't have sex with my wife for six weeks or more, I am fine with her getting that itch scratched elsewhere.

If I won't have sex with my wife for three weeks or more, I would be a fool to expect my wife not to get that itch scratched elsewhere.


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## Personal

Ragnar Ragnasson said:


> It was three years after the final surgery and treatment before we had sex again.


Wow! That's a long time, and it would certainly be a bridge too far for me.

That said when my wife had thyroid problems and subsequently breast cancer, the periods of no sex only lasted for a few weeks rather than a few years.

Neither my wife nor I, want either of us to go without sex for any extended periods.


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## Evinrude58

I think it’s ludicrous to say that if no sex for 6 weeks, it’s ok to get it scratched elsewhere.... What spouse would even want another person if they were in love with their spouse?

However, it’s one thing to wait for a long time if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. If the spouse gets over an illness and doesn’t want sex for YEARS later........,, it’s not unreasonable to want out of the marriage. It’s not just about sex either, it’s about feeling wanted romantically and feeling loved. EG might have not felt so bad about it if she gave him some good sugar and a hand job or a bj if she was in pain somehow from piv. But nothing?

Still, lots and lots of unanswered questions in this thread.


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## Personal

Evinrude58 said:


> I think it’s ludicrous to say that if no sex for 6 weeks, it’s ok to get it scratched elsewhere.... What spouse would even want another person if they were in love with their spouse?


The longest amount of time my wife and I have gone without sex in a sexual relationship was a bit over six months, back when I was still an Army NCO. Having the pass and availing that opportunity are two different things.

In the case of illness I wouldn't suck it up for a year.

In the case of a sexual partner just doesn't want to have sex, I wouldn't suck it up for 2-3 weeks.


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## hamadryad

Diana7 said:


> Some people believe in the for better and for worse part.


Unfortunately, in a lot of cases, that means a lifetime of misery, frustration, etc, for one(or both) parties...I don't know what God would want that, unless he is cruel or a some type of prankster...

I didn't read all of the responses....who knows? Perhaps they would have drifted apart even without all the misfortune...In fact, it's probably the case here...The "issues" just magnified it...

For many it just then is a choice...You either suck it up and spend the rest of your life sleeping on the couch with the hand lotion at your side, ignoring the gorilla in the room and be the "good guy" that sacrificed anything that was ever deemed important to preserve your family and not abandon your wife, or you do as a lot of other guys do, you stay and get a second life for yourself on the side, or you just pack up and leave and let the chips fall where they may...

I'm not telling you what to do, but this isn't a dress rehearsal as they say....


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## manfromlamancha

DTO said:


> I believe this, but for a finite period. I've been there, done that. Believe me when I tell you that if they aren't back at it in a couple of years it isn't going to happen.


Not sure that you can put a time period on it. Maybe I am just built that way and may be wrong, but I stuck with it - as I said, for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health. God damn my Catholic "maker of men" school for that!


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## manfromlamancha

happyhusband0005 said:


> We can agree to disagree on calling it an affair. If people are separated IMO it's not an affair. The guy went years with essentially no sex is it a shock that he would move into a relationship of some kind quickly, I would say no. Most child psychiatrists will say kids witnessing an unhealthy marriage for years and years is as, if not more damaging long term than being a child of divorce. But it also depends on how the parents handle it. If one parent is poisoning the kids against the other they are the one with more responsibility for the damage that that will cause the kids which is significant.
> 
> One can say they are adults they can stick it out for the kids, and in some circumstances that may be true. However they would also have to be academy award worthy actors, kids learn a lot about relationships from what they witness at home and the are very perceptive and pickup on tension easily, are two people who are just staying together for the kids going to display authentic affection towards each other, are they going to be thoughtful and caring towards each other by default? In reality no, they are going to be indifferent towards each other most of the time and probably crappy towards each other often enough to be a problem.


Ross: we were on a break! But kidding aside, safest to divorce first and then screw. Decency may dictate a cooling of period before screwing even after divorce. Seems OP couldn't wait.


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## Diana7

Ms. Hawaii said:


> How do you know?
> 
> OP said they’ve been living separately since October 1st. They could have separated prior to October 1st.
> 
> I honestly don’t get why OP is being crucified.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Since october 1st doesn't mean before that date. .


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## Diana7

Evinrude58 said:


> I think it’s ludicrous to say that if no sex for 6 weeks, it’s ok to get it scratched elsewhere.... What spouse would even want another person if they were in love with their spouse?
> 
> However, it’s one thing to wait for a long time if there’s light at the end of the tunnel. If the spouse gets over an illness and doesn’t want sex for YEARS later........,, it’s not unreasonable to want out of the marriage. It’s not just about sex either, it’s about feeling wanted romantically and feeling loved. EG might have not felt so bad about it if she gave him some good sugar and a hand job or a bj if she was in pain somehow from piv. But nothing?
> 
> Still, lots and lots of unanswered questions in this thread.


Agreed, and I doubt we will get the honest answers.


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## Diana7

happyhusband0005 said:


> We can agree to disagree on calling it an affair. If people are separated IMO it's not an affair. The guy went years with essentially no sex is it a shock that he would move into a relationship of some kind quickly, I would say no. Most child psychiatrists will say kids witnessing an unhealthy marriage for years and years is as, if not more damaging long term than being a child of divorce. But it also depends on how the parents handle it. If one parent is poisoning the kids against the other they are the one with more responsibility for the damage that that will cause the kids which is significant.
> 
> One can say they are adults they can stick it out for the kids, and in some circumstances that may be true. However they would also have to be academy award worthy actors, kids learn a lot about relationships from what they witness at home and the are very perceptive and pickup on tension easily, are two people who are just staying together for the kids going to display authentic affection towards each other, are they going to be thoughtful and caring towards each other by default? In reality no, they are going to be indifferent towards each other most of the time and probably crappy towards each other often enough to be a problem.


They are still husband and wife and have barely even separated. Until they are legally divorced its still adultery.


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## Diana7

Personal said:


> Wow! That's a long time, and it would certainly be a bridge too far for me.
> 
> That said when my wife had thyroid problems and subsequently breast cancer, the periods of no sex only lasted for a few weeks rather than a few years.
> 
> Neither my wife nor I, want either of us to go without sex for any extended periods.


So you dont go for faithfullness or keeping the vows you made then. It sounds to me that neither of you believes that either if you can possibly manage for a few weeks without sex. That you cant possible live without sex for even a short time.That you would die or crumple into a heap. 

I love and respect my husband far too much to go off looking for someone else to have sex with. The thought that I would go looking after just 2 or 3 weeks seems like madness to me. As another poster said if you love your wife why would you even want to have sex with anyone else.


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## Diana7

There are a lot of posters here who are being very naive about this man and his 'new' lover. Who he didnt even think it was relevant to mention until asked. Then claimed it was implied that there was another woman. No it wasnt. It was implied that he was debating whether to stay or go. 
I dont think any of us are arguing that if he wants to end his marriage he is free to do so, but I wish he had been honest about why now after all this time. Why now is because he has a lover. At least have the decency to end the marriage before having sex with someone else. At least have the decency to be honest with his wife and children about his lover.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson

Personal said:


> Wow! That's a long time, and it would certainly be a bridge too far for me.
> 
> That said when my wife had thyroid problems and subsequently breast cancer, the periods of no sex only lasted for a few weeks rather than a few years.
> 
> Neither my wife nor I, want either of us to go without sex for any extended periods.


Too long for a girlfriend, no sweat for a W one has a good life with.


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## In Absentia

Sounds to me the OP has done whatever was in his power to fix the marriage. But the moral question of abandoning his wife in the aftermath of a very difficult event remains. I know it's been 6 years and seldom sex, but the wife has been through a lot. It's a very difficult situation. At the end of the day, if the marriage is unhappy - regardless of cancer and death - what's the point?


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## DTO

Diana7 said:


> If they are both mature adults they can and should treat each other like mature adults and model that to their children. Breaking up your family for another woman is hardly being a good role model.


Being mature adults is of little consequence if they are devoid of passion. Passion is the standard, not being civil to each other.


----------

