# Should I give up...?



## fearful55

As long as this is, I did my best to be concise. 

In my failing 25 year marriage, I'm the source of the problem. I'm a sex and love addict, currently sober and working a 12 step program: SLAA (Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous). It's been 2 years since my wife discovered an affair I'd been having. That began the disclosure of 20 years worth of my secret sex addict history.

It took some IC before it was suggested that I should look into sex addiction. The more I looked, the more it made sense. Addiction and twelve-step recovery were already quite familiar. I started putting together my sobriety from booze and drugs during the first year of our marriage in 1988, just after the birth of our daughter. From my twenties, I'd often wondered whether my sexual habits were addiction...using sex like a drug. After marriage, my actual affairs were clearly wrong in my mind, but I would cross that line with impunity. I didn't have a clue it was all tied together. At the end, porn, online sexual social networking sites, cybersex, virtual sex, meets for sex, and an actual ongoing sexual affair were all in the mix.

Our early marital years were not good. The wreckage of the years before I got sober stayed front and center for my wife. As I changed, she stayed angry. Every disagreement turned into total chaos and ended with her saying she wanted a divorce and me begging her to stay.

Eventually I reached a point where I felt I'd earned a break from the sins of the past, but I couldn't break through her resentment. I couldn't drink, so (without knowing) I turned to my other way of self medicating...sex. Over the course of a year or so, what I'd intended to be a sexual affair with a woman at work spiraled into what I was convinced was "true love". (I get high on sexual and romantic intrigue)

When I told my wife of this relationship and said she could now have the divorce she wanted, suddenly she changed completely and was begging ME to stay. This was bad because my addict thinking was completely invested in the OW and I proceeded do cold, cruel, callous things to my wife that were and still are unforgivable. My feelings of love for my wife seemed to be gone and she was placing herself between the addict and the drug...never a safe place to be. When I think of her emotional suffering at my hand, I want to just die.

After a few months a struggle had developed between my rational mind and the addict. Some of the fog that obscuring my view of reality had cleared and I became concerned that I wanted this OW for sex way more than for any other reason. I was about to leave my wife and daughter to simply pursue selfish physical and egotistical needs.

I presented to my wife that I'd realized it was her that I loved and not the OW, and asked if we could stay together. She believed me and said okay.

I'd prevented the great mistake, but I couldn't walk away from the sexual affair that I'd worked to set up and had not yet used to my full satisfaction. The addiction still had its teeth firmly planted. After just weeks, the OW and I re-engaged and continued to have a sexual affair for another 3 years, at the end of which we broke off all contact.

The OW called me on my birthday 4 years later. Future contact was sparse at first but eventually there were a couple of meets, the second of which was physical. There was never again any pretense of love or serious emotion. Since the original affair, at best she was on the edges of my addiction activity.

...and all that was the background to set up the painful place where I live these days.

When I/we entered MC and IC as a couple with a sex addict husband, all of these details were eventually revealed along with all of my other addict behaviors.

It is somewhat common to use polygraph testing as a component of treatment for married sex addicts. Because addicts are pathological liars, a polygraph can be useful in reassuring the spouse that the addict's "full disclosure" of all acting out activity is complete and truthful. It is then used as a maintenance tool, periodically confirming that so further acting out is taking place. 

The affair with this particular OW traumatized my wife beyond all else. Seeking PROOF that I stayed primarily because I loved her, she has become literally obsessed with this, all other aspects of my addictive secret life falling into a distant second place position. My wife's focus turned exclusively to making use of a polygraph to determine if I "duped" her into staying in our marriage all those years ago. The unacceptable motivations for staying with her would include: still feeling I was in love with the OW and wanting to have both while I sorted things out, not wanting to have our 9 year old daughter suffer the consequences of a divorce, not wanting to be a failure as a husband thus adding to the weight of the guilt over the wreckage of my alcoholic past. 

Feelings and emotions can't be polygraphed. I wrote a statement specifying that when deciding to remain married, I loved my wife, did not feel I loved the OW any longer, and that there was no deception taking place. I was asked if the statement was true in a polygraph. The test result was "deception indicated". 

Six months of absolute insanity has followed. Fights and vitriol at levels that are not even safe for either of us. She quit MC because unless I can prove via polygraph, etc... 

I have since concluded that I don't have clear memory of what I was thinking about love for my wife at that time. I remember feeling that I was going to be making a huge mistake and I had to fix it. I remember being concerned that I might not be able to stop seeing the OW. I know now that it was for the sex only but at the time...was I still debating "love" for her? I just don't know and therefore can't take a polygraph.

My wife, her IC, her support group of sex addict spouses, and her friend who knows the details all believe that I'm lying. They support her contention that I know what I felt and will not "admit" the truth because she has been clear that she will leave me unless I can "prove" her only acceptable scenario.

She is preparing to "move on". She has stopped trying to do anything constructive. She is routinely brutal, saying things to me that are intended to cause pain...and she is good at it. I use my IC and support network to maintain my sobriety and self image in the face of being told that I'm the worst man who ever walked upright (never that nice). I am in fear of her. I am like the battered woman who doesn't leave.

I have tried explaining in every way I can think of and have been told that my attempts have made things worse because the "stories" aren't consistent. This is because I'm trying to piece together definites out of memory fragments, all with a gun to my head.

I love her and would be willing to do whatever work was necessary to try and stay together. I just can't get her past this obsessive point.

Should I give up?


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> I am in fear of her. I am like the battered woman who doesn't leave.


No, you're not like a battered woman. I'm sure you hurl vitriol at your wife as readily as she does. That's on top of the nasty things you've done; some would say the worst thing you can do to another person. It's unfortunate that your wife has become nasty; but you are by no means a victim in any sense of the word. 

That being said, you do not have endure your wife's tantrums. You can walk away and it does not make you a horrible person. She just wants to hurt you now. Maybe you think you should take it. Maybe you haven't had your say so you want to stick around and fight with her. Either way, I dont think anything good will come of it.



fearful55 said:


> I love her and would be willing to do whatever work was necessary to try and stay together. I just can't get her past this obsessive point.
> 
> Should I give up?


You should work on your boundaries. It might sound trite under such dire circumstances but boundaries will help you. Learn to own what is yours and let go of what is hers.


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## MSP

It's not unusual that you swapped one addiction for another when you quit drinking. This is because you didn't solve the problem of why you were addicted, just the manifestation of it. I recommend you try some of the stuff HERE.

Also, lie detectors are not necessarily accurate. I certainly would not hinge a relationship on the results of one, especially from a complex statement. They are really designed for simple 'yes' or 'no' answers.

Since addicts are so good at deception, you need to demonstrate behaviour that is contrary to your addiction, like constant transparency, a firm no-contact letter to the OW, moving away from environments that cause you temptation, etc. You also need to display self-control and confidence in other areas of your life.


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## fearful55

Blanca said:


> No, you're not like a battered woman. I'm sure you hurl vitriol at your wife as readily as she does. That's on top of the nasty things you've done; some would say the worst thing you can do to another person. It's unfortunate that your wife has become nasty; but you are by no means a victim in any sense of the word.


Thanks for your feedback.

My characterization of being like a battered woman may be inaccurate, but there is no question that the situation has turned abusive toward me. There is no action or behavior on my part now that is abusive to her. The abuse in the past is undeniable but now there has been a 180. Here and there she will push a button that catches me off guard and I react in anger, but for the most part I just sit there and take it. Brutal, unfiltered verbal assault. Because of our living situation she is forced to be civil when around others. I deliberately avoid being alone with her and when I can't prevent it, I say nothing and pray that there is no attack. At all times I'm open to attack via email and text or phone. When I hear the sound of an incoming text, the adrenaline and fear immediately displace any serenity I may have gathered. 

Her obsession is over past thoughts and feelings that I can't document and prove. My only hope is that time will help.

The common elements among addicts are fears, doubts, and insecurities. She targets those very things.


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## fearful55

MSP said:


> It's not unusual that you swapped one addiction for another when you quit drinking.
> 
> Since addicts are so good at deception, you need to demonstrate behavior that is contrary to your addiction, like constant transparency, a firm no-contact letter to the OW, moving away from environments that cause you temptation, etc. You also need to display self-control and confidence in other areas of your life.


Rather than viewing the sex addiction as a substitution, I see it as an addiction I'd had along side alcohol that I'd controlled in the early years of marriage. Since my sobriety focus was on alcohol, I simply resumed using sex to mask feelings as I had always done prior to marriage.

Your suggestions are all good ones. Transparency, a no-contact letter, and avoiding triggers by making life changes, these steps were among the targeted work done within the last 12-14 months. We were in MC for a year until I failed the polygraph and my wife quit. Between AA, SLAA, and IC, I'm confident that I'm doing the right things. My IC, sponsors, and fellow recovering addicts concur. Thus the fear and heavy powerlessness. It's out of my hands. 

So I wonder if I'm hurting myself or acting like a sick co-dependent by staying with my wife and family under these conditions.


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## chunt

I'm not a bible-thumper, I am anti divorce.

However, after reading your OP and follow ups I feel like you are victimizing your wife and feel in fact that YOU ARE THE VICTIM. This is severely flawed logic. She has stood by you for over 20 years while you have acted in this manner that is completely unacceptable. 

I can really see why she could feel like she is done. If you want really good help, again I'm not a bible thumper, go to the website foryourmarriage.org or something like that, it is a catholic organization that has some really good articles about sex, addiction, and how husband and wife should act in their relationship. 

I feel very sorry for your wife and daughter, especially your daughter. I could not imagine having my father experience the struggles you face. 

To get your wife on speaking therms with you again I reccomend a sincere letter of apology where you do not appear to be the victim, she does, because she is the victim in this situation, not you. 

I also think that in place of these 12 step programs you should take some classes and read some books on self control since your addiction is impulse related, it may help. 

Just my 50 cents


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> there is no question that the situation has turned abusive toward me. There is no action or behavior on my part now that is abusive to her. The abuse in the past is undeniable but now there has been a 180.


The past catches up to us slowly. She's still emotionally processing everything that has happened because she hasn't quite coped with it all yet. How and when she copes depends somewhat on your current actions but it is largely predicted by the past. Your 180 is so short and minuscule compared to the years of deceit and abuse that it currently serves more as a plateau for her revenge then anything very productive. Your 180 will not make a dent in her emotionally for many years, if it ever does. Once your 180 becomes the new theme of the past (I'm talking about at least 8 consecutive years) then your current situation will improve, providing she also gets some help. 



fearful55 said:


> I say nothing and pray that there is no attack. At all times I'm open to attack via email and text or phone. When I hear the sound of an incoming text, the adrenaline and fear immediately displace any serenity I may have gathered.


Saying nothing is probably the best way to go right now. But you are not open to attack via email, text or phone. Just dont read her emails, text, and if she gets nasty on the phone tell her you have to go. She will absolutely hate you for this. 

My H had the same anxieties that you have. He used to call me 'gorilla girl' because he said i was like those army guys that hide behind trees and you never know when one is going to jump out and attack you. He said being around me was like trying to walk through a field full of land mines. I used to hate him so much. I wanted to hurt him more then anything. He would sit quietly while I called him every horrible thing I could think of.


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## fearful55

Blanca said:


> The past catches up to us slowly. She's still emotionally processing everything that has happened because she hasn't quite coped with it all yet. How and when she copes depends somewhat on your current actions but it is largely predicted by the past. Your 180 is so short and minuscule compared to the years of deceit and abuse that it currently serves more as a plateau for her revenge then anything very productive. Your 180 will not make a dent in her emotionally for many years, if it ever does. Once your 180 becomes the new theme of the past (I'm talking about at least 8 consecutive years) then your current situation will improve, providing she also gets some help.


Your input here is helpful, albeit discouraging as a time line.



Blanca said:


> Saying nothing is probably the best way to go right now. But you are not open to attack via email, text or phone. Just dont read her emails, text, and if she gets nasty on the phone tell her you have to go. She will absolutely hate you for this.


If I don't play along, she changes the pswd for online access to our cell phone family plan and turns off my phone. 30% of my income is my business that is run via that phone.

...I know, I should get my own phone. The additional expense is prohibitive. We just get by at current income levels. If money was not an issue, she'd be long gone.



Blanca said:


> My H had the same anxieties that you have. He used to call me 'gorilla girl' because he said i was like those army guys that hide behind trees and you never know when one is going to jump out and attack you. He said being around me was like trying to walk through a field full of land mines. I used to hate him so much. I wanted to hurt him more then anything. He would sit quietly while I called him every horrible thing I could think of.


Bingo! Thanks for this piece of honesty. Couldn't have described the dynamic better.

I hate living this way. My life has been on hold for 2 years now and there's no end in sight. I'm 58. In 8 years I'll be...

Good Lord!...grant me the serenity, to accept the things...


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> If I don't play along, she changes the pswd for online access to our cell phone family plan and turns off my phone. 30% of my income is my business that is run via that phone.


Thats brutal. You wouldnt believe what I just about did to my H once. It was deplorable, so much so that I wont even share it on this site. So i understand the dilemma. I had my H by his balls. He really started to hate me. 



fearful55 said:


> I hate living this way. My life has been on hold for 2 years now and there's no end in sight. I'm 58. In 8 years I'll be...
> 
> Good Lord!...grant me the serenity, to accept the things...


Well I dont think you can ever accept that sort of treatment. You'll explode eventually. Eventually what you really want will present itself, one way or another. The key is learning if what you really want is what makes you really happy. If not, you have to learn to adjust what you want until you find what makes you happy.


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## fearful55

Blanca said:


> The key is learning if what you really want is what makes you really happy. If not, you have to learn to adjust what you want until you find what makes you happy.


Something about this makes me feel better. It makes me feel I have some control.

You have helped


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> Something about this makes me feel better. It makes me feel I have some control.
> 
> You have helped


I'm glad. I know i'm rather abrasive at first. 

What I do in my marriage is treat it like one big emotional experiment. The goal is happiness. I ask myself, what am i doing? What is it getting me? am i happy (or at peace as that is a better indicator)? If not, what can i change? you can change what you want, how you want it, when you want it, who you want it from, and what you expect. there's a lot to change which is why it comes about so slowly. your marriage is not the ultimate goal. it's just a tool in the experiment of discovering your ultimate happiness. so stop judging yourself and start experimenting.


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## fearful55

Blanca said:


> I'm glad. I know i'm rather abrasive at first.
> 
> What I do in my marriage is treat it like one big emotional experiment. The goal is happiness. I ask myself, what am i doing? What is it getting me? am i happy (or at peace as that is a better indicator)? If not, what can i change? you can change what you want, how you want it, when you want it, who you want it from, and what you expect. there's a lot to change which is why it comes about so slowly. your marriage is not the ultimate goal. it's just a tool in the experiment of discovering your ultimate happiness. so stop judging yourself and start experimenting.


The things that would make me happy or bring me peace...these are things I cannot change. She has decided that absence of intimacy is too much for her to bear. She wants me to agree to pretending that we are fine in front of my stepdaughter/son-in-law housemates while she is free to pursue relationships with other men, or another man, or something. 

I can't do that to myself.


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> The things that would make me happy or bring me peace...these are things I cannot change. She has decided that absence of intimacy is too much for her to bear. She wants me to agree to pretending that we are fine in front of my stepdaughter/son-in-law housemates while she is free to pursue relationships with other men, or another man, or something.
> 
> I can't do that to myself.


Ok, so dont do that. 

So you know you dont want what she is asking. In this particular, specific situation, what do you want? This is a perfect opportunity for you to evaluate what you are getting from what you want. What do you want in this specific situation? Think about it. Write it down. Then right next to those wants write down what you are getting. i.e. how do you feel when you want that?

my guess is that you want her to not want what she is asking. I dont blame you. But you have to ask yourself, what am i getting from wanting her to stop wanting this? are you getting anywhere? do you feel less in control of your life? more depressed? resentful? these are all very negative feelings and so that is a sign that this want of yours is not getting you what you really want. It's a perfect time to adjust what you want. In this situation you are going to have to change what you want.


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## fearful55

Blanca said:


> Ok, so dont do that.
> 
> So you know you dont want what she is asking. In this particular, specific situation, what do you want? This is a perfect opportunity for you to evaluate what you are getting from what you want. What do you want in this specific situation? Think about it. Write it down. Then right next to those wants write down what you are getting. i.e. how do you feel when you want that?
> 
> my guess is that you want her to not want what she is asking. I dont blame you. But you have to ask yourself, what am i getting from wanting her to stop wanting this? are you getting anywhere? do you feel less in control of your life? more depressed? resentful? these are all very negative feelings and so that is a sign that this want of yours is not getting you what you really want. It's a perfect time to adjust what you want. In this situation you are going to have to change what you want.


I just want the pain to stop


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## Blanca

fearful55 said:


> I just want the pain to stop


Awe, i'm sorry  Hang in there. Do you exercise? Going for a nice run with some loud music helps clear my head on a crappy day. Boxing is always a good outlet, too.


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## fearful55

Update:

She has let me in on the secret. She has been dating already. She is happy to share that he has a better education and makes much more money.

I've begun making plans to leave my home of 15 years. For as far back as practical memory will go, I've maintained this home...raised my daughter here...kept everyone safe...now I have to leave.

This changes the meaning of the title of this thread, "Should I give up?" It no longer references the marriage. Now it refers to one of the options in front of me. In terms of preference, it isn't high on the list...but it's there...


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## Jayne.P

I don't know if this will help but I am married to a man who thinks he is a sex addict. We have been together 12 years but I have just found out and I sometimes am so angry and show such hatred towards him but I don't wish to hurt him it is more a protective thing for myself, I think I am looking for him to prove me right and show me he isn't worth investing in, as if I keep pushing he will leave and I will be shown he isn't worthy of my love. I also think I am looking for him to make me feel safe, because of the devasting pain he has made me feel, I need him to take the lead, I cannot ask for it as that makes me vunerable, I want him to show me and the anger and hurt makes it impossible to ask in a healthy way for fear of more rejection and hurt. He is normally my safe place, where I go for shelter and security, but now he makes me feel the most unsafe I have ever felt. Maybe your wife is in this place too? I think if she shows anger that is still an emotional connection to you even though it may be damaging. It may be your job to make her feel safe again even though it will be so hard, perhaps in an unhealthy way she is looking to get back the control she feels you took away?


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## fearful55

Jayne.P said:


> I don't know if this will help but I am married to a man who thinks he is a sex addict. We have been together 12 years but I have just found out and I sometimes am so angry and show such hatred towards him but I don't wish to hurt him it is more a protective thing for myself, I think I am looking for him to prove me right and show me he isn't worth investing in, as if I keep pushing he will leave and I will be shown he isn't worthy of my love. I also think I am looking for him to make me feel safe, because of the devasting pain he has made me feel, I need him to take the lead, I cannot ask for it as that makes me vunerable, I want him to show me and the anger and hurt makes it impossible to ask in a healthy way for fear of more rejection and hurt. He is normally my safe place, where I go for shelter and security, but now he makes me feel the most unsafe I have ever felt. Maybe your wife is in this place too? I think if she shows anger that is still an emotional connection to you even though it may be damaging. It may be your job to make her feel safe again even though it will be so hard, perhaps in an unhealthy way she is looking to get back the control she feels you took away?


17 years ago, I'd planned to leave my wife for another woman. My addiction told me that I was in love. Before it was too late, I changed course, telling my wife I loved her, not the OW. What my wife found out recently along with the rest of my sexual acting out was that I continued to have a sexual affair with that OW for three more years followed by years of no contact and then a reconnection as a minor component of my secret sex life in more recent years. My wife is obsessed with this one relationship. She believes it was "love" and not sex addiction. She believes that I stayed in the marriage to avoid the harm that divorce would cause my 9 year old daughter and because I didn't want to add more guilt to the pile I'd been carrying from the years before I got sober (Booze/Drugs 1988)

My wife wants proof that I was consciously aware that I stayed because of my love for her and for no other reason. This includes a polygraph exam to confirm that I'm telling the truth.

There are a million reasons why this can't work. At first I tried to fit my memories into her 'scenario' and failed a polygraph. I've since realized that this can't be resolved this way because I was an addict acting in my own self interest. I don't remember exactly what I was thinking any more. I don't remember making my decisions based on "love" for my wife or the OW. She rages that my therapist should loose his license for not enforcing her demand that I get honest about my feelings and motives all those years ago. I prove to her every day that I'm not 'recovering' because I won't change therapists. I choose to remain dishonest with the blessing of my bad IC.

There's no question that I love my wife now. I honestly have felt very fortunate to have her as my partner even though the addict constantly pursued sexual and romantic intrigue elsewhere. In my marriage, I've been quite happy. My acting out ended 2 years ago and I've been sober in SLAA for 15 months. None of this matters to her. She is stuck in the past, 17 years ago, and she sees no reason to let it go. I have to meet her demands on this issue or we will be splitting and she will make me as miserable as possible in the process.

While there may be an element of her connection to me being evidenced by her anger and her lashing out, I see no possibility of making her feel safe again. The opening to do so would have to come from her and she is light years from that place. Right now I have to keep myself safe. Some days I do better than others.


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## Jayne.P

It sounds like there has been so much damage from the past and also the more recent deceptions. Could it be that she is asking for something you can't give so she doesn't have to continue in the relationship & will see that as her justification so it won't be her fault giving up so to speak? 

I completely understand what your mean about how you don't remember your thoughts from that time, my husband is the same and whilst it is so frustrating for me, he just can't remember what he was thinking about or feeling during those years, especially now it's out in the open and not a secret anymore. 

She must love you to still be with you but perhaps it is too big for her to deal with. Life is short and happiness will not come from another person, you have to try and make yourself happy right now. If you can try and live your life so you are happy with your day to day choices as you now seem to be able to do, even if this means time apart from your wife, this may be the best course. 

Once you are in a better place, and you will be no matter how dark things may seem now, you may both see a way forward together. I know that in my personal situation, I feel much worse when confronted with my husband each day and would rather have a temporary separation to clear my head as it's not easy to let the anger and hurt go when the person who caused it is there all the time reminding you. Communication may improve if you can take a breather & you may find a way forward together. Whilst it may seem hard now, try and concentrate on the good things in your life and the positive changes you have been able to make.


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## fearful55

I guess this has become my place to journal. Maybe I want someone to say that I have a right to be in serious pain. 

I'm the sex addict who acted out and turned her world upside down. I get that. The fact that I have taken step 1 of the 12 steps and admitted powerless over the addiction and have put together a program of meetings and therapy and have 14 months sober, that is not going to stop her pain or buy me forgiveness. I get that too.

For financial and family reasons, we can't easily separate. She says she won't leave and it's me who should go. With me would go my pay and leave behind the bills and the mortgage that we barely cover together. She says doesn't care. We just had my daughter (24) move back home so she could go through a program to become a hair stylist and my stepdaughter (42) and her husband have moved in with us while they get set up, having moved to the states from Greece. So my choice is stay in this "pretend things are fine state" living with them providing stability and paying the bills or I move out and blow it all up, hurting all of them emotionally and financially.

Now add to the mix that my wife "can't wait for me" and is moving on with her life. I still love her and wish we could somehow reconcile, but she insists that because of my past I have no right to beg her to NOT date other men while we are still married and living in this situation. Tonight she met another man for dinner and tells me that I deserve the pain this causes. I'm freaking out and can hardly breathe and her reaction is, "You made your life what it is. Be a man and take responsibility."

In the past I would have had a quick solution...booze, drugs, sex...probably a combination. If I'm to stay sober, I can't do anything to mask this pain. I'm struggling to control my anger and resentment toward her for what she's doing to me. I am full of fear. I don't know what to do with the way I feel.


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