# Wife not affectionate or intimate - I'm running low on patience



## pilotranger

Ok, this is for you guys out there (and wives too if you want to chime in). As you can tell from my subject line, my wife is not affectionate and does not want to have sex with me (only out of obligation). A little background:

My wife and I are 42 and been married for 15 years. Have three kids, ages 14 yrs, 11 yrs and 7 yrs old. Just like most people, when we first dated then married, both of us were very affectionate and loving toward each other. As we had our kids, that obviously gradually went down hill due to busy schedules, work, school, family, etc. I get that.

But recently, since we had our third child, my wife seem to be less affectionate. I ALWAYS initiate sex, I ALWAYS give hugs first, and kisses. During sex, she just LAYS there. Damn, I even give her really nice professional grade massages to get her relaxed and in the mood. I ask her to maybe get on top or try something different for once and she ALWAYS says, "NO".

And then she just lays there falling asleep and pushes me away when I try to kiss her or touch her or give her oral sex, etc. She "rewards" me with sex by laying there and letting me do her for 2 minutes, then when I cum, she pushes me away and glad it's over. 

Her "I love you" is even weak and I always say it first.

I work from my home office, so I take the kids to all after school activities, doctor appointments, teacher conferences, etc. I even cook every night (not warm up in the microwave, but COOK nice meals) and worry about most of the stuff for the kids. I'm respectful to my wife, don't abuse her, think the world of her, thinks she's the most gorgeous woman on earth, but I get the cold shoulder or the comment, "I'm just not feeling it" or "I work with guys all day, the last person I want to deal with when I get home is you" comment. Yes, she said that to me, but claims she does not remember saying it.

Guys, I'm at the point where I'm frustrated, resentful, mad as hell and need some love, intimacy, or just SOME respect for god sake!! I've tried everything - talking with her about it, confronting her, saying this is not right, etc...

I'm at the point where I am thinking of having an affair, just so I could get some human affection from SOMEBODY. Feel like I live with a freaking robot.

Any thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks,
pilotranger


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## nogutsnoglory

pilotranger said:


> Ok, this is for you guys out there (and wives too if you want to chime in). As you can tell from my subject line, my wife is not affectionate and does not want to have sex with me (only out of obligation). A little background:
> 
> My wife and I are 42 and been married for 15 years. Have three kids, ages 14 yrs, 11 yrs and 7 yrs old. Just like most people, when we first dated then married, both of us were very affectionate and loving toward each other. As we had our kids, that obviously gradually went down hill due to busy schedules, work, school, family, etc. I get that.
> 
> But recently, since we had our third child, my wife seem to be less affectionate. I ALWAYS initiate sex, I ALWAYS give hugs first, and kisses. During sex, she just LAYS there. Damn, I even give her really nice professional grade massages to get her relaxed and in the mood. I ask her to maybe get on top or try something different for once and she ALWAYS says, "NO".
> 
> And then she just lays there falling asleep and pushes me away when I try to kiss her or touch her or give her oral sex, etc. She "rewards" me with sex by laying there and letting me do her for 2 minutes, then when I cum, she pushes me away and glad it's over.
> 
> Her "I love you" is even weak and I always say it first.
> 
> I work from my home office, so I take the kids to all after school activities, doctor appointments, teacher conferences, etc. I even cook every night (not warm up in the microwave, but COOK nice meals) and worry about most of the stuff for the kids. I'm respectful to my wife, don't abuse her, think the world of her, thinks she's the most gorgeous woman on earth, but I get the cold shoulder or the comment, "I'm just not feeling it" or "I work with guys all day, the last person I want to deal with when I get home is you" comment. Yes, she said that to me, but claims she does not remember saying it.
> 
> Guys, I'm at the point where I'm frustrated, resentful, mad as hell and need some love, intimacy, or just SOME respect for god sake!! I've tried everything - talking with her about it, confronting her, saying this is not right, etc...
> 
> I'm at the point where I am thinking of having an affair, just so I could get some human affection from SOMEBODY. Feel like I live with a freaking robot.
> 
> Any thoughts and suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> pilotranger



Missing all the info about what she is saying. Surely there has been more discussion between you two then you are telling us about..
You need to tell her you want to go to marital counseling. You need to make sure she is not into another guy as well.
Sounds like she has no attraction for you, so I would recommend fixing that. Exercise, take care of yourself and stop asking for sex from her.


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## PBear

Standard starting point... "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" and "No More Mr. Nice Guy"

When's the last time you guys went on a "date"?

C


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## pilotranger

I've addressed those points with her already

1. We need to see a marriage counselor - she says everything is fine, we don't need to.
2. I've had a discussion with her about another guy - she assures me there is no one else.
3. If I don't ask for sex - we'll NEVER have sex. What do you suggest I do if not ask for sex?
4. I do work out, am fit, etc.


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## nogutsnoglory

pilotranger said:


> I've addressed those points with her already
> 
> 1. We need to see a marriage counselor - she says everything is fine, we don't need to.
> 2. I've had a discussion with her about another guy - she assures me there is no one else.
> 3. If I don't ask for sex - we'll NEVER have sex. What do you suggest I do if not ask for sex?
> 4. I do work out, am fit, etc.


marriage is about what 2 people need. I would talk to a lawyer and get the papers ready, tell her it is MC or you are out, if she balks, serve her the papers. You have to be willing to lose the marriage sometimes in order to wake up people. Your choice is to make her aware of the severity of the issue and its cause and effect on your marriage and if she is not willing to work with you on fixing the problem then you need to man up and leave her


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## PBear

To her, everything IS fine, if only you'd stop nagging her about sex. And deep down, she probably fears that if she goes for MC, she'll be on the hot seat for a lot of questions she doesn't want to answer. You'll have to push for a solution or changes... She's likely very happy with the status quo.

C


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## WorkingOnMe

pilotranger said:


> I've addressed those points with her already
> 
> 1. We need to see a marriage counselor - she says everything is fine, we don't need to.
> 2. I've had a discussion with her about another guy - she assures me there is no one else.
> 3. If I don't ask for sex - we'll NEVER have sex. What do you suggest I do if not ask for sex?
> 4. I do work out, am fit, etc.


You don't get it. When she says everything is fine you need to say no it's not. It's not fine. Are you afraid of her or something? It's time to get a little confrontational.


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## sexy

Hi Pilotranger,

I am a mom of teen girls also, and I am not a very sexually aggressive person. Having said that, here are some questions to think about:

1. Is your wife overweight? Maybe she feels insecure about being sexual. 

2. Is she medically o.k? Is she depressed, perimenopausal, high bp? Does she take BC pills? many of these things can throw off a sex drive.

3. Do you two spend ANY time together without being in bed? Do you do things ONLY because she wants to do them?
Women need attention out of bed before they give it to you in bed.

4. Do you NAG her about having sex? Men hate it when women nag them about cleaning up/picking up after themselves. . . Wives hate being NAGGED for sex. It makes us feel like the only value we have is giving you sex.

5. Do you two share common interests? 

6. How much time do you two spend with kids and homework? maybe she feels like she is used up at the end of the day.

If she is out of shape, I would recommend that you two spend more time doing physical activities together (walking working in the yard - tell her you need her help in the yard raking, repairing something, or ask her to go walking with you because you wanted a partner to keep you company while you workout. You shouldn't make it about HER needing to lose weight, but both of you getting healthier.
The reason I mention the weight thing, is that I just lost weight also, and I feel better about sex and physical aspects of marriage as a result. If a woman doesn't feel attractive or desired, she won't put out! Blunt way to say it, but it's true.

Anyway, if any of these things is a problem, look at fixing some of that first. Then make yourself unavailable for sex once in a while. If she suspects you're not interested (or desperate) she'll wonder. Then this can build her desire. If you want it, she won't. . . If you don't want it, she will. It might work, it might not. Either way it's worth a try, right?


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## accept1

First of all let me say I feel for you.

You say it is seven years that is not so recent.

May I ask who is making more money.

Your wife is seeing 'guys' at work. Most likely some are 'better' than you. You cant really compete. 

How exactly did this start.

You seem to be acting like the 'lady' of the house. That could also be turning her off.

If you wanted divorce how would she react. Does she want it.

I am sure you have tried everything and she knows everything and there is nothing you can tell her. Whatever you do will not change her.

I repeat I am sorry for you and cant see counselling being of help. How exactly does she view you.

You have mentioned that she was a virgin at marriage. Is she religious. Maybe going down that route can help.

I suppose that means that you are her only one. That ought to be a plus but doesnt seem to be. 

She seems to be of the opinion that she is doing her 'duty' and thats all what matters. 

I find it difficult to believe that she is 'always' tired. You have to find a time when she isnt. 

Have you ever had a good argument with her. I mean a really good one or are you scared to. It sometimes helps to clear the air. And sex afterwards can also be great.


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## pilotranger

Hi Sexy,

Thanks for the input. She is not overweight, she is ideal weight for her height and BMI. She could be a 40 something year old model/mom type of looks. We don't spend time together, i.e. "date nights", since most of our time is spent with kids, etc. It used to be I would do EVERYTHING - cook, clean, laundry, kids homework, etc. She would work, come home, dinner, shower, then tuck kids in. I would clean up, dishes, check homework folders, etc.

I then had a talk with her to say, "I need some help". I know our roles are kind of reversed, where I'm the "at home dad" (even though I have a full time job working from home office) and she is the commuter in the family. She does make more money than me, and I asked her if she felt less about me because of that and she said no.

She was never sexually active before we got married, she was a virgin when we married, so sex was not a thing she experimented or anything. She does have a thyroid problem, and does take medication for that (only when she feels like it though. She's very anti-medicine).

Honestly, I don't think I nag her about sex. Sex for us now is every Saturday night (not every Saturday, maybe once a month or twice). I just think her libido has been zapped by our third child and she just wants her sleep. I've tried talking with her numerous times, suggested counseling, talked about divorce, etc.

She doesn't say "hi" or "I love you" to me, I'm usually the one that instigates EVERYTHING. I think deep down she loves me and cares for me, but she subconciously does not realize she is being this way or is not compassionate to me. (I'm not looking for lovey dovey here, just a little sincerity and some respect).


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## 6301

Friend. 

Until you open your mouth and let her know and do it in a way that she understands that being treated like you don't count for anything is making you a unhappy person, she's going to continue to plod along like everything is cool. Well it's not and she needs to know it.

I have a feeling that she feels superior to you and as long as you continue to cater to her, it will continue. She thinks all is well because you haven't really spoke up in a way that she see's that your pissed and tired of being treated like you don't count for anything. Your the only one that can do something about it. Stop being the nice guy for a change and let her do some of the lifting and don't be afraid to tell her that her lack of enthusiasm in the bedroom need some serious improvement. The door swings both ways but to her it's one way. It's your move and unless you do something about it, the situation will stay as it is.


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## Thound

Try to emotionally detach from her. Dont ask for sex. Act like you dont need it. Get a hobby and stay away from her. Give her space and maybe she will pursue you. Oh and dont cheat.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## pilotranger

I've had this discussion with her already - tell her exactly what you said. She's the stubborn type - when she's wrong in the past, she doesn't openly admit it or say "I'm sorry". Her upbringing I think molded her into this way. We came from war torn country and her family separated early (mother and sisters back in homeland and she grew up here in the states most of her life with dad and sister/brothers), so she had to stay tough and make it without a mother for most of her years growing up.

I've talked to her already and said how I felt.


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## EleGirl

Your wife pretty much acts like a person who has low thyroid and does not take meds for it.

Being anti-meds makes little sense when a person has thyroid decease.


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## Hicks

The marriage is working for her, but not for you.

So you can talk till your blue in the face or go to couseling forever but while the marriage is working well for her it's not going to change.

What you have to do is embrace what's good about your situation. What is good about it is that your marriage just isn't one where the wife doesn't have to care about what the husband's needs are, and the husband doesn't have to care about what the wife's needs are. You are FREE. Embrace it! Do what you enjoy doing in life without without consideration for your wife and without worrying that pissing off your wife will lead to less sex.


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## Deejo

Going to presume that you already have, but if not, check out the sticky at the top of the Men's Clubhouse.

We can discuss the details, but let's bottom-line things first.

Are you prepared to dissolve the marriage if things don't change?


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## pilotranger

EleGirl said:


> Your wife pretty much acts like a person who has low thyroid and does not take meds for it.
> 
> Being anti-meds makes little sense when a person has thyroid decease.


Yes, I agree. It's like knowing that you have a cut or wound, but refuse to do something about it.


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## anchorwatch

Hello Pilot, 

Can I ask you why you didn't answer PBear's question, about dating your wife? You do understand, foreplay doesn't start in the bedroom? You don't get sex with pressure, that makes you look pathetic. You get sex with attraction, that makes you look confident. 

As for intimacy, it can be as simple as you've both placed being each other's lovers below parenting, wage earning, homemaking, ect... for too long. 


A lot of questions can be answered by a bit of research. 

Browse Deejo's sticky at the top of the men's club house threads.

Get the book recommended in a previous post, by brother member Athol Kay (MMSL). it's an easy read.


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## 6301

pilotranger said:


> I've had this discussion with her already - tell her exactly what you said. She's the stubborn type - when she's wrong in the past, she doesn't openly admit it or say "I'm sorry". Her upbringing I think molded her into this way. We came from war torn country and her family separated early (mother and sisters back in homeland and she grew up here in the states most of her life with dad and sister/brothers), so she had to stay tough and make it without a mother for most of her years growing up.
> 
> I've talked to her already and said how I felt.


 Then be as stubborn as her and stop being the nice guy and do things for yourself. Sooner or later she's going to realize that she going to stubborn herself out of the marriage.


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## 3Xnocharm

pilotranger said:


> She was never sexually active before we got married, she was a virgin when we married, so sex was not a thing she experimented or anything. She does have a thyroid problem, and does take medication for that (only when she feels like it though. She's very anti-medicine).


Thyroid meds are not something that is optional! If a person doesnt take those, then nothing else is going to be in balance. She probably needs to go in and have her levels checked, her exhaustion would be a symptom. 

The two of you need to spend some one on one time together. You need to date each other again. See if it improves things. If not then push for counseling. I can remember trying to get my husband(s) to go and being told that things arent that bad, just like your wife has said...but thing is, if ONE partner thinks that marriage counseling is needed, then IT IS. You need to push this, and like others have said, you are going to have to be willing to lose it to save it.


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## MrK

pilotranger said:


> She doesn't say "hi" or "I love you" to me, I'm usually the one that instigates EVERYTHING.


This is the most important sentence in your entire thread. Read it. Again, and again, and again.

She doesn't love you. If she did, she'd try a LITTLE harder. And saying "I love you" is about as simple as it gets. "Hi" is even easier. But she won't even do THAT for you, let alone not make it OBVIOUS sex is a dreaded chore for her.

To discover the cause, read up on the "walk-away-wife". To find the solution, read up on the 180. 

You have it worse than you think right now.


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## MrK

Look. My wife has hated me for a long time. But she'll make me feel like a rock star in bed. Yes, after I initiate. She's going to do it with me as little as possible, but when she "has to", she'll put in SOME effort. Even enjoy it sometimes.

But my wife hates me. Yours loves you. She should be able to at least fake it, for your sake. The man she loves.

I obviously could be wrong here. I don't know either of you. But there are a BOATLOAD of wives out there with husbands that have NO CLUE as to the extent to which they've detached. Fallen out of love. 

It's not thyroids, or weight, or anything that one normally equates to a low sex drive in women. Or rather, it is. It is actually the number one cause of a low sex drive in wives. Not loving or being attracted to your partner.

I personally don't think this one can be fixed. Because the bad news is they rarely come back once they've walked.


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## testr72

if you dont address it then things will just get worse. Be aggrsssive and pursue her with this problem 
It looks like LD partners are selfish, especially when they refuse to work on pleasing their partner that loves and cares about them.

Its as though they are in a relationship by themselves.

Im in a similar situation, wife is not interested in sex, no i love you , no huging ,no cuddling , cant even get close to her on the couch etc. the typical wife that lost interest situation.
Shes not having an affair , just low drive. We have 2 beautiful kids thats why this is so difficult just to walk away

Shes just happy to be left alone, but its driving me crazy. Most days i feel depressed, im giving this more time but eventually i have a feeling that we will part


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## Catherine602

You have to find out about the possibility of an affair either P or E. Before acting on any changes (besides a vigorous investigation of an affair), contemplate how you got yourself into a position of having a wife who respects the men she is working with more than her husband. 

Who brings home the most money in your household? You say that you work from home, how productive are you? Do you ever have to travel for business, have meetings or direct people? 

Is her job a managerial type? Who handles the finances in your home.? Do you have interest besides home-making? Fix cars, kick boxing, car racing? 

You can kiss her feet if you want but if you don't get into a position where she respects you, you will not get the results you want.


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## Viseral

If everything you do is wrong, then the opposite would have to be right. 

It's called the 180.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKUvKE3bQlY&feature=youtube_gdata_player


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## Viseral

Seriously man, you need to get mad, and let her know it. You have to absolutely be willing to destroy the marriage to fix it. 

Walk out on her, separate, tell her why, be willing to do whatever it takes, just don't cheat because you'll lose your moral high ground, then you'll be in a world of sh1t.

Women love nice guys like they love a puppy, or a baby, but they'll never make them weak in the knees, like a man who demands respect.

Before you do anything else read Married Mans Sex Life Primer and No More Mr Nice Guy. That'll get you started.


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## pilotranger

testr72 said:


> if you dont address it then things will just get worse. Be aggrsssive and pursue her with this problem
> It looks like LD partners are selfish, especially when they refuse to work on pleasing their partner that loves and cares about them.
> 
> Its as though they are in a relationship by themselves.
> 
> Im in a similar situation, wife is not interested in sex, no i love you , no huging ,no cuddling , cant even get close to her on the couch etc. the typical wife that lost interest situation.
> Shes not having an affair , just low drive. We have 2 beautiful kids thats why this is so difficult just to walk away
> 
> Shes just happy to be left alone, but its driving me crazy. Most days i feel depressed, im giving this more time but eventually i have a feeling that we will part


testr,

you're describing my situation to the "T".


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## meson

I was in a similar situation to you. For a long time I was focused on my needs that weren't being met but that didn't help. As another said you are probably not attractive to your wife any more. This usually happens because you are not meeting her needs for whatever reason. As 3xnocharm said you need to date and do what it was that attracted her to you in the first place. You may not see it but you may have changed from that person whom she loved. You don't mention her needs but she has them as well. Make sure you learn what they are and meet them. 

That worked for me and turned my marriage around. Now she meets my needs like never before because she feels loved and secure with her needs being met. It's not all about you.


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## Catherine602

Pilot are you reading any of the books or stickies recommend? What do you think? What are your plans?


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## DTO

pilotranger said:


> Hi Sexy,
> 
> Thanks for the input. She is not overweight, she is ideal weight for her height and BMI. She could be a 40 something year old model/mom type of looks. We don't spend time together, i.e. "date nights", since most of our time is spent with kids, etc. It used to be I would do EVERYTHING - cook, clean, laundry, kids homework, etc. She would work, come home, dinner, shower, then tuck kids in. I would clean up, dishes, check homework folders, etc.
> 
> I then had a talk with her to say, "I need some help". I know our roles are kind of reversed, where I'm the "at home dad" (even though I have a full time job working from home office) and she is the commuter in the family. She does make more money than me, and I asked her if she felt less about me because of that and she said no.
> 
> She was never sexually active before we got married, she was a virgin when we married, so sex was not a thing she experimented or anything. She does have a thyroid problem, and does take medication for that (only when she feels like it though. She's very anti-medicine).
> 
> Honestly, I don't think I nag her about sex. Sex for us now is every Saturday night (not every Saturday, maybe once a month or twice). I just think her libido has been zapped by our third child and she just wants her sleep. I've tried talking with her numerous times, suggested counseling, talked about divorce, etc.
> 
> She doesn't say "hi" or "I love you" to me, I'm usually the one that instigates EVERYTHING. I think deep down she loves me and cares for me, but she subconciously does not realize she is being this way or is not compassionate to me. (I'm not looking for lovey dovey here, just a little sincerity and some respect).


So she was a virgin when you married? It seems that many people claim abstinence out of virtue but in reality are using it to hide low drive or hang-ups.

Let me ask this: did you guys do any heavy petting or kissing before marriage? Did she struggle to maintain her purity? If not, then (sorry to say) she never really was into it and you were "baited and switched" in all likelihood.

As far as what you should do, make sure you do less for her. IMO, she does not see any negative consequences to failing to meet your need, and she doesn't "want" you, so why would she bother to expend the energy?

So, you need to give her the reason to try. You maybe don't need to go all the way to divorce right now (but it definitely is a possibility). But maybe you should have a last talk with her about how she's continuing to come up short on you and the situation is unsustainable. Failing that, don't cook special for her (maybe cook enough of what you or the kids want, leave hers in the pot and serve everyone else). Wash all the clothes but leave hers in a pile somewhere. She can pump her own gas, get her own maintenance done, etc.

If (when) she complains, you note that you are not interested in that type of one-sided arrangement. Your stand is that you have no control over her sex drive, but you do have one and it's important enough that you expect her to find a way to do it cheerfully and enthusiastically. As long as she is indifferent, you will be just as indifferent, so it's up to her to decide how the future works out for you.


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## yours4ever

when my husband spoke my love language, I feel loved, and automatically I love him and wants to please him.

What is your wife's love language? 
I don't think it is service nor verbal affirmation. Could it be quality time/gift giving?
Do you know what it is?

Cheating doesn't solve issues, it only worsen things.

What is your wife's love language?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LongWalk

Read Bagdon, one of the best threads ever about getting a wife to fall back in love. His sex life was at zero.

She sounds completely not into you. But she has not considered life without you.

What kind of work do you do? What is her job? I think is a woman is a manager and kicks men's butts to keep them in line, she loses respect for the gender. She only looks up to men who are above her in the chain of command. She may even have crush on someone higher up.

Can you get a better paying job outside of the home?

It has been statistically documented that in couple relationships in which the husband does a lot of housework, less sex happens.

You say you are in shape. Machiavelli (legendary poster whose writings her on TAM are easy to find) says you must have a V shaped torso by lifting weights.

I would take my frustration and pour into the gym. Be cheerful less needy. Do all of the housework as usual but put a mild 180 on her. Become less dependent on her for affirmation. Don't be rude. Be happy and cheerful. Just remind yourself that things are going to get better, a lot better, because you are taking action.

You will solve this problem. You will win back your wife's love and respect or you will leave her and start a new life. Painful but by having a choice and path to success on either side, you will feel better. Not hating and resenting your wife will be important is going about this cheerfully.

Don't accept duty sex. Stop the initiating. If she does, give her a real ride. Don't say I love you when she is not saying it to you. Stop. 

Does she talk about her work? Do you listen?


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## wabert

leave now, i tried for 25 of 35 yrs to find intimacy with my beautiful wife, and my resentment of rejection is now killing it for me even though she totally changed when i tried to leave first, then entered into a relationship with an old love, confessed, was put out of my home, then returned 4 mo.s ago, now I can t get over 25 yrs of rejection no matter how well she is now willing for intimatcy. I feel like a cad because now that she is willing, i can t get oast the yrs of rejection.your story really hit home for me.


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## LongWalk

Wabert that was terrible. Do you remember the words of you wedding vow? Was it a church wedding?

Pilotranger, you never explained what your wife does for a living.

Also, read the thread of Jerry123.

Just because your wife has extra problems to deal with, you should not let up in your search for solutions.


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