# My wife slept with her ex-boyfriend while we were separated



## marc85

My wife and I separated in October 2016, and we have been reconciling for the last 3 weeks. We are not living together at this point. We will consider it further down the line. I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating. 

Long story short (because the rest sure as **** won’t be), my wife left her phone at my apartment. When she let me know she had lost it I checked my apartment, found it, and looked through it. Out of sheer curiosity I looked through it, no sense in lying and saying I stumbled upon them while dialing 911 because a cat was stuck in a tree.

I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take) I don’t know anything about that relationship because my wife has always refused to talk about it. Other relationships, no problem but that one she has always guarded. All she has ever said was that he was very important/special to her. 

The conversation started February and ended a week ago. As far as I can tell, my wife initiated the reconnection. One of our biggest arguments before we separated was ex-GF/BF’s. She absolutely hated that I had any contact with an ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago. I disagreed that ex’s cannot be friends. She had no contact with any of her ex’s, because she was under the impression feelings would reemerge OR that there was simply no reason to contact them. I say this because, based on what I read her feelings for him have definitely reemerged. 

They have been driving 8 hours (each way) to see each other for short periods of time, seems like only when I had our kids. So I could go with a pro that at least my kids have not been around the douchenozzle, or con and that I was caring for our kids so she could go **** her lover. Based on the texts they were clearly physically intimate. My wife isn’t the kind of person to have casual sex, she has sexual abuse in her past and has restricted sex to those she really cares about. The big I love you was exchanged many times from both parties. Lots of “I wish I never lost you”, “You were the one that got away”, “I have always loved you”. They had plans about moving closer to each other or moving in together. My wife told him that he was the most important person in her life, the best relationship she had ever had, the only person she has been in love with. That I was second best and could never measure up. That she wished HE fathered her kids instead of me. They texted basically all day, every day with gaps for when they were together. She has a million pictures of herself and him on her phone. I had never known what he looked like but it doesn’t take a genius to put it together. He has a stupid name, so that part was easy to figure out. The insecure part of me acknowledges that he is more attractive and much fitter. She never wanted to take pictures of us, and she looked truly happy in those pictures she took with him. 

The only positive I can find in the situation is that they had stopped communication. At least, it appears that way. But she kept the conversation and the 10 million pictures. This is their last conversation:

“My husband and I are going to try and get back together. I have to try… I’ll miss you but I have to try.” - wife

“He’s not good enough for you. You deserve better and I don’t want to be the one who told you I told you so.” - ex

“I have to give it one final try. I need to know for myself and our kids that I tried the best I could.”  - wife

“I can’t wait forever. You know that you should be with me.” -ex

“I know, and I don’t expect you to. Seeing you with someone else again would be so painful. I may regret my choice later, but for right now this is what I have to do. I can’t talk to you anymore, it will hurt too much.” - wife

“I love you. You know that.” - ex

“I’m always going to love you.” -wife

Then he called her and there hasn’t been another call or text since. 

Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker? No, she did not cheat on me and I’m the one the initiated the separation - she was free to do what she wanted - but this is a bit far. Can she ever be trusted? Not only with cheating (with him) but trust that she genuinely wants to reconcile and is happy with ME? Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself? A large part of me is insanely pissed off and wants to kill the guy for getting involved with and ****ing my wife. For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) _my_ wife.


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## manwithnoname

Ask her if she dated anyone while you were separated. If she lies, you have the fact that she's a liar in addition to her preferring this other guy in every way. 

Why does she want to reconcile? The kids? 

Not sure I could take all that you read.


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## turnera

manwithnoname said:


> Ask her if she dated anyone while you were separated. If she lies, you have the fact that she's a liar in addition to her preferring this other guy in every way.


Exactly.


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## Married but Happy

You kicked her out - did you agree to any conditions for the separation? If not, then she did nothing wrong, and what she did isn't any of your business. If you ask, she doesn't need to tell you, and probably will lie about it. I can't say I'd blame her, either. On the other hand, what if she tells you the truth? Will that change anything? What you should take from this is that she ended it, in hopes of reconciling with you for whatever reasons. Is that good enough? Is what you had - and hope to have in the future - worth the effort?


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## sokillme

marc85 said:


> My wife and I separated in October 2016, and we have been reconciling for the last 3 weeks. We are not living together at this point. We will consider it further down the line. I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating.
> 
> Long story short (because the rest sure as **** won’t be), my wife left her phone at my apartment. When she let me know she had lost it I checked my apartment, found it, and looked through it. Out of sheer curiosity I looked through it, no sense in lying and saying I stumbled upon them while dialing 911 because a cat was stuck in a tree.
> 
> I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take) I don’t know anything about that relationship because my wife has always refused to talk about it. Other relationships, no problem but that one she has always guarded. All she has ever said was that he was very important/special to her.
> 
> The conversation started February and ended a week ago. As far as I can tell, my wife initiated the reconnection. One of our biggest arguments before we separated was ex-GF/BF’s. She absolutely hated that I had any contact with an ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago. I disagreed that ex’s cannot be friends. She had no contact with any of her ex’s, because she was under the impression feelings would reemerge OR that there was simply no reason to contact them. I say this because, based on what I read her feelings for him have definitely reemerged.
> 
> They have been driving 8 hours (each way) to see each other for short periods of time, seems like only when I had our kids. So I could go with a pro that at least my kids have not been around the douchenozzle, or con and that I was caring for our kids so she could go **** her lover. Based on the texts they were clearly physically intimate. My wife isn’t the kind of person to have casual sex, she has sexual abuse in her past and has restricted sex to those she really cares about. The big I love you was exchanged many times from both parties. Lots of “I wish I never lost you”, “You were the one that got away”, “I have always loved you”. They had plans about moving closer to each other or moving in together. My wife told him that he was the most important person in her life, the best relationship she had ever had, the only person she has been in love with. That I was second best and could never measure up. That she wished HE fathered her kids instead of me. They texted basically all day, every day with gaps for when they were together. She has a million pictures of herself and him on her phone. I had never known what he looked like but it doesn’t take a genius to put it together. He has a stupid name, so that part was easy to figure out. The insecure part of me acknowledges that he is more attractive and much fitter. She never wanted to take pictures of us, and she looked truly happy in those pictures she took with him.
> 
> The only positive I can find in the situation is that they had stopped communication. At least, it appears that way. But she kept the conversation and the 10 million pictures. This is their last conversation:
> 
> “My husband and I are going to try and get back together. I have to try… I’ll miss you but I have to try.” - wife
> 
> “He’s not good enough for you. You deserve better and I don’t want to be the one who told you I told you so.” - ex
> 
> “I have to give it one final try. I need to know for myself and our kids that I tried the best I could.”  - wife
> 
> “I can’t wait forever. You know that you should be with me.” -ex
> 
> “I know, and I don’t expect you to. Seeing you with someone else again would be so painful. I may regret my choice later, but for right now this is what I have to do. I can’t talk to you anymore, it will hurt too much.” - wife
> 
> “I love you. You know that.” - ex
> 
> “I’m always going to love you.” -wife
> 
> Then he called her and there hasn’t been another call or text since.
> 
> Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker? No, she did not cheat on me and I’m the one the initiated the separation - she was free to do what she wanted - but this is a bit far. Can she ever be trusted? Not only with cheating (with him) but trust that she genuinely wants to reconcile and is happy with ME? Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself? A large part of me is insanely pissed off and wants to kill the guy for getting involved with and ****ing my wife. For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) _my_ wife.


Personally it sounds like you are plan b. This dude is also kind of plan b too since she professes all this love for him then moves right back to you. Your wife is bad news. The universe gave you an out. Take it.


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## SunCMars

I see this differently. I think she is picking you over him. Action, not words count the most. She may be telling him what he wants to hear. She may be trying to pacify HIM.

She does love him. She went out of her way to be with him. To make love to him...over and over and over. She has tasted every bit of his flesh. She has.

But she is coming back to you.

Maybe the fog is lifting. He is a great lover and is fun to be with but he is not marriage material.

Make copies of all the conversations and messages on the phone.

What she said is unforgivable. I will not repeat them. They are horrendous.

If you indeed love this women and can overlook this tragic revelation. Then give her one year to prove herself.

DO NOT LET HER KNOW THAT YOU SAW HER MESSAGES. 

Use this knowledge to your advantage.

It actually gives you the upper hand. You have seen her cards, all of them.

She has no clue about yours.

Give this time, if you want to reconcile. See if she is being truthful about her feelings.

And monitor her whereabouts and her communication for at least a couple of years.

The good thing is this: She slept with an old boyfriend, not a shiny new model. She has driven up his private drive before and explored the greenery.
If she comes back to you, he is plan B. She had a fling with an old flame.

Do not be in a hurry. Put her under a microscope. Be extra nice and pretend you are in the dark. Make passionate love to her. Give her your best performance.

Again, I say this if you want her back. If you cannot stomach the thought then divorce her.


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## alexm

I like what Sun said - level-headed, logical, and not wrong at all.

But, know that this guy will pop up again. And again. And again. And your wife will be tempted again. And again. And again.

At some point, perhaps 5 years, 10 years or even 20 years down the road, she won't have stopped thinking "what if". When things get boring, or life is too much to handle - her thoughts will turn to him. If there's ever another bump in your marriage - he will magically appear.

I agree with Sun that she's "choosing" you - that _he's_ the Plan B. But do you really want to be married to someone who HAS a Plan B?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

Married but Happy said:


> did you agree to any conditions for the separation? If not, then she did nothing wrong,


You've chosen the wrong default setting. They were separated, but still married. Unless they openly and unambiguously agreed to conditions that expressly allowed for extramarital contact, this was definitely outside the marriage, tenuous though it may have been.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

marc85 said:


> My wife and I separated in October 2016, and we have been reconciling for the last 3 weeks. We are not living together at this point. We will consider it further down the line. I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating.
> 
> Long story short (because the rest sure as **** won’t be), my wife left her phone at my apartment. When she let me know she had lost it I checked my apartment, found it, and looked through it. Out of sheer curiosity I looked through it, no sense in lying and saying I stumbled upon them while dialing 911 because a cat was stuck in a tree.
> 
> I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take) I don’t know anything about that relationship because my wife has always refused to talk about it. Other relationships, no problem but that one she has always guarded. All she has ever said was that he was very important/special to her.
> 
> The conversation started February and ended a week ago. As far as I can tell, my wife initiated the reconnection. One of our biggest arguments before we separated was ex-GF/BF’s. She absolutely hated that I had any contact with an ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago. I disagreed that ex’s cannot be friends. She had no contact with any of her ex’s, because she was under the impression feelings would reemerge OR that there was simply no reason to contact them. I say this because, based on what I read her feelings for him have definitely reemerged.
> 
> They have been driving 8 hours (each way) to see each other for short periods of time, seems like only when I had our kids. So I could go with a pro that at least my kids have not been around the douchenozzle, or con and that I was caring for our kids so she could go **** her lover. Based on the texts they were clearly physically intimate. My wife isn’t the kind of person to have casual sex, she has sexual abuse in her past and has restricted sex to those she really cares about. The big I love you was exchanged many times from both parties. Lots of “I wish I never lost you”, “You were the one that got away”, “I have always loved you”. They had plans about moving closer to each other or moving in together. My wife told him that he was the most important person in her life, the best relationship she had ever had, the only person she has been in love with. That I was second best and could never measure up. That she wished HE fathered her kids instead of me. They texted basically all day, every day with gaps for when they were together. She has a million pictures of herself and him on her phone. I had never known what he looked like but it doesn’t take a genius to put it together. He has a stupid name, so that part was easy to figure out. The insecure part of me acknowledges that he is more attractive and much fitter. She never wanted to take pictures of us, and she looked truly happy in those pictures she took with him.
> 
> The only positive I can find in the situation is that they had stopped communication. At least, it appears that way. But she kept the conversation and the 10 million pictures. This is their last conversation:
> 
> “My husband and I are going to try and get back together. I have to try… I’ll miss you but I have to try.” - wife
> 
> “He’s not good enough for you. You deserve better and I don’t want to be the one who told you I told you so.” - ex
> 
> “I have to give it one final try. I need to know for myself and our kids that I tried the best I could.”  - wife
> 
> “I can’t wait forever. You know that you should be with me.” -ex
> 
> “I know, and I don’t expect you to. Seeing you with someone else again would be so painful. I may regret my choice later, but for right now this is what I have to do. I can’t talk to you anymore, it will hurt too much.” - wife
> 
> “I love you. You know that.” - ex
> 
> “I’m always going to love you.” -wife
> 
> Then he called her and there hasn’t been another call or text since.
> 
> Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker? No, she did not cheat on me and I’m the one the initiated the separation - she was free to do what she wanted - but this is a bit far. Can she ever be trusted? Not only with cheating (with him) but trust that she genuinely wants to reconcile and is happy with ME? Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself? A large part of me is insanely pissed off and wants to kill the guy for getting involved with and ****ing my wife. For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) _my_ wife.


Unless you expressly agreed to open relationships during the separation, you have every right to be upset. 

You also have a data point that indicates you have reason for concern for your future. If she was willing to do this this time, it will be even easier for her to do so in the future, should your marriage hit another bump in the road. Even if she no longer wants to be with this particular fella, she's proven she is willing to find another fella when it suits her. 

On a different note--as for the other guy being fitter--that's something within your power to change about yourself if you think it would help you, either in establishing confidence with your wife, or juset in general in life.


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## marc85

I want to call her out on it. That is a stupid idea, I'm well aware. Right now she is unaware that I have snooped into her phone. She's the idiot that hasn't changed her passcode in a millennium. I can see the benefit to both sides. If I ask her if she dated anyone while we were separated and she lies, that proves she is a liar. If she tells the truth that doesn't feel like it will fix the damage that was done when I read that she "misses the feeling of him inside her". How long is she going to miss that? Forever? Will we be doing it and her mind wanders to being pounded by her ex? If I ask her right away she's going to know that I read the texts, it seems to obvious. 

If I pretend I didn't see anything that would let me watch her more closely and maybe create less of a possibility of her hiding her contact with him. Is that really how I want to start reconciliation though? I'd say no. You are right that she could have just been saying things to cushion his ego, I didn't think about that. For months though? I have a hard time believing that. 

Reconciling, like separation, was my idea. So it could be true that she left him for me when I wanted to take her back. When we separated we didn't intend on getting back together. In a few months our divorce would be final. We didn't set any rules or guidelines, because I didn't expect to get back together with her (she wanted to get back together for the first few months, prior to contact with her ex started; I assumed she got over it and dropped it). I would be lying if I said I didn't see other women casually but this is apples and oranges. I wasn't in love with any of them and didn't wish I could re-write history to be with them instead. They talked about having children together for gods sake. We separated because we were fighting non-stop, had nothing in common and wanted different things in life. We have gone to therapy together a few times now and all of our problems seem fixable. They mostly stemmed from a lack of effort on both sides. Wanting different things in life was sort of obliterated by an unplanned pregnancy so that's beside the point. We married young and too soon - my wife was 20, I was 25 and we married after 3 months of being together. We had a couple good years followed by a few bad years. The good years were very good. Things went down the toilet when we stopped putting in effort. 

I don't like the idea of her ex always being around and me always worrying.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

She tried to get back with you first, you said no so she moved on. 

You also saw other people. 

Doesn't matter if hers ended up more serious. You both were seeing other people. 

Nope, sorry IMO you don't get to be mad about this. She didn't do anything wrong. 

But if you can't let it go and not throw it in her face in some way then you need to not reconcile. She doesn't deserve any negativity for this.


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## eric1

If you dated too then who the hell cares if she did, particularly since you were the one who initiated separation


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## SunCMars

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She tried to get back with you first, you said no so she moved on.
> 
> You also saw other people.
> 
> Doesn't matter if hers ended up more serious. You both were seeing other people.
> 
> Nope, sorry IMO you don't get to be mad about this. She didn't do anything wrong.
> 
> But if you can't let it go and not throw it in her face in some way then you need to not reconcile. She doesn't deserve any negativity for this.


Yep and Uh-hah.

Love her or leave her. She wanted to come back..you said no. She still wants to come back. Now you both have more memories of intimacy with others.

Take it as a gift....not a curse.


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## marc85

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> She tried to get back with you first, you said no so she moved on.
> 
> You also saw other people.
> 
> Doesn't matter if hers ended up more serious. You both were seeing other people.
> 
> Nope, sorry IMO you don't get to be mad about this. She didn't do anything wrong.
> 
> But if you can't let it go and not throw it in her face in some way then you need to not reconcile. She doesn't deserve any negativity for this.





eric1 said:


> If you dated too then who the hell cares if she did, particularly since you were the one who initiated separation


I'm not upset that she decided to get involved with another man while we were separated. When we separated I expected her to, in the sense that I didn't expect her to stay a single-divorcee the rest of her life. I saw other women, I'm not going to by a hypocrite. It is the finer details that are the real problem. 

Yes, the separation was my choice. Yes, turning her down was my choice. Yes, I saw other women. Casually, though. I didn't profess my love to other women. I didn't tell other women that they were the love of my life, that they were better than my wife and that I loved my wife but was never in love. I didn't reminisce with other women about how great it would have been if we stayed together. I didn't wish they mothered my girls. I didn't tell other women that I wanted to have their babies or that I wished they were not on birth control. I didn't tell other women that they were my soul mate but my wife would do. I didn't tell other women that they are the only one who understands me and really knows me. I didn't make a 16 round trip multiple times a month just to get laid. 

Yes, she ended things with him but for how long? It has only been a week they have been out of contact. If she could end it that quickly and easily for me, how long until she does the same for him?


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Is she your back up? You tried some others and realized it's not all fantasy out there and figure you'll settle back with your wife? 

Honest question. What sparked the choice to want to get back together? 

She loved him and he loved her. She made the choice that working on her marriage and family was more worth it to her. 

Doesn't sound like she was being hiding or sneaking. She clearly told him she was going back with you and didn't try to have both at once. 

She waited until it was clear that it was over with you before she went for another man. 

Sounds like she's done everything right. 

Problem I see happening is you won't be able to let it go. You will eventually blow up at her about it. You'll tell her that her sleeping with him was worse than what you did. You'll question her, accuse her, bring it up down the road. 

Unless you know 100% that won't happen, you shouldn't get back with her. You simply can not hold this against her. This is your ego's problem, not hers.


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## Herschel

Um, I don't get most of the responses here. I don't even get the question. Does it matter if this was cheating or not? She was going out of her way to **** her ex bf that she was in love with and wished that he sired her children. Why, in the name of all that is holy, would you ever, even remotely consider getting back together with this woman. Maybe you were the worst husband Alice's. I don't know. But this is a losing situation for both of you. End it now and gtfo.


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## sokillme

marc85 said:


> I want to call her out on it. That is a stupid idea, I'm well aware. Right now she is unaware that I have snooped into her phone. She's the idiot that hasn't changed her passcode in a millennium. I can see the benefit to both sides. If I ask her if she dated anyone while we were separated and she lies, that proves she is a liar. If she tells the truth that doesn't feel like it will fix the damage that was done when I read that she "misses the feeling of him inside her". How long is she going to miss that? Forever? Will we be doing it and her mind wanders to being pounded by her ex? If I ask her right away she's going to know that I read the texts, it seems to obvious.
> 
> If I pretend I didn't see anything that would let me watch her more closely and maybe create less of a possibility of her hiding her contact with him. Is that really how I want to start reconciliation though? I'd say no. You are right that she could have just been saying things to cushion his ego, I didn't think about that. For months though? I have a hard time believing that.
> 
> Reconciling, like separation, was my idea. So it could be true that she left him for me when I wanted to take her back. When we separated we didn't intend on getting back together. In a few months our divorce would be final. We didn't set any rules or guidelines, because I didn't expect to get back together with her (she wanted to get back together for the first few months, prior to contact with her ex started; I assumed she got over it and dropped it). I would be lying if I said I didn't see other women casually but this is apples and oranges. I wasn't in love with any of them and didn't wish I could re-write history to be with them instead. They talked about having children together for gods sake. We separated because we were fighting non-stop, had nothing in common and wanted different things in life. We have gone to therapy together a few times now and all of our problems seem fixable. They mostly stemmed from a lack of effort on both sides. Wanting different things in life was sort of obliterated by an unplanned pregnancy so that's beside the point. We married young and too soon - my wife was 20, I was 25 and we married after 3 months of being together. We had a couple good years followed by a few bad years. The good years were very good. Things went down the toilet when we stopped putting in effort.
> 
> I don't like the idea of her ex always being around and me always worrying.


Well she didn't do anything wrong then. I do get the how you feel like you do though. That stuff is probably painful to hear, but then again you had moved on so had she. I can't say I wouldn't be worried though. This is on you though. Why did you move on? Why did you change your mind? All and all sounds like she picked you. She may be wondering if you are all in or are going to back out again. Are you?


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## sokillme

marc85 said:


> I'm not upset that she decided to get involved with another man while we were separated. When we separated I expected her to, in the sense that I didn't expect her to stay a single-divorcee the rest of her life. I saw other women, I'm not going to by a hypocrite. It is the finer details that are the real problem.
> 
> Yes, the separation was my choice. Yes, turning her down was my choice. Yes, I saw other women. Casually, though. I didn't profess my love to other women. I didn't tell other women that they were the love of my life, that they were better than my wife and that I loved my wife but was never in love. I didn't reminisce with other women about how great it would have been if we stayed together. I didn't wish they mothered my girls. I didn't tell other women that I wanted to have their babies or that I wished they were not on birth control. I didn't tell other women that they were my soul mate but my wife would do. I didn't tell other women that they are the only one who understands me and really knows me. I didn't make a 16 round trip multiple times a month just to get laid.
> 
> Yes, she ended things with him but for how long? It has only been a week they have been out of contact. If she could end it that quickly and easily for me, how long until she does the same for him?


You were never supposed to read those text. Obviously she said he was better. He hadn't dumped her like you did. He hadn't moved on like you did. Remember when she said that you had moved on and probably thought you were a jerk. Seems like she was willing to come back to you though. 

I feel bad for the other dude, sounds like she used him for a rebound and the unceremoniously dumped him when you decided to come back. 

I take back what I said about her being bad news I didn't get the full scope of what happened. I was wrong. She did nothing wrong to you. But this situation sounds like bad news. I think it's too much water under the bridge. I think she should have never gotten back with you.


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## sokillme

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Problem I see happening is you won't be able to let it go. You will eventually blow up at her about it. You'll tell her that her sleeping with him was worse than what you did. You'll question her, accuse her, bring it up down the road.


If he does this he will be 100% wrong. They should have stuck with the plan and ended it. Now it's just a mess, and it's OP's fault because OP ended it and then changed his mind.


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## manfromlamancha

Let me be clear about this.

The two of you were fighting and didn't get along. However, you wanted to end it not her. You initiated the separation with intention to divorce. She still wanted to try and fix things and you refused. You dated other women during this time. This went on for a bit until she finally threw the towel in and decided to move on.

So she doesn't just go and date some men, she goes to someone she had feelings for before and professes her love for him (she has at this stage been rejected by you). So what did you expect her to tell him ? That he is a rebound. That she is rejected by you. That you are a great guy and she would rather be with you ? Really ? Of course she would tell him what she did.

And now that you decide you want to fix things, she actually dropped him and came back to you.

AND YOU ARE CONCERNED AT HER ACTIONS ?!?!?!? If I were her, I would be very worried about yours!!! It seems that she really loved you to want to stay with you and even if it was for the kids, that still is admirable. I don't see her as having done anything wrong here. And yet you are trying to prove that she is a liar. What she did on her own time was her business. She doesn't have to tell you anything.

Grow up and either try and genuinely make this work or else stop leading her on!


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## Satya

marc85 said:


> I'm not upset that she decided to get involved with another man while we were separated. When we separated I expected her to, in the sense that I didn't expect her to stay a single-divorcee the rest of her life. I saw other women, I'm not going to by a hypocrite. It is the finer details that are the real problem.
> 
> Yes, the separation was my choice. Yes, turning her down was my choice. Yes, I saw other women. Casually, though. I didn't profess my love to other women. I didn't tell other women that they were the love of my life, that they were better than my wife and that I loved my wife but was never in love. I didn't reminisce with other women about how great it would have been if we stayed together. I didn't wish they mothered my girls. I didn't tell other women that I wanted to have their babies or that I wished they were not on birth control. I didn't tell other women that they were my soul mate but my wife would do. I didn't tell other women that they are the only one who understands me and really knows me. I didn't make a 16 round trip multiple times a month just to get laid.
> 
> Yes, she ended things with him but for how long? It has only been a week they have been out of contact. If she could end it that quickly and easily for me, how long until she does the same for him?


You are viewing her deeds through your own moral lens and judging them by comparing to what YOU would have or not have done, rather than see her as an individual, capable of making her own choices, and accepting the obvious fact that you're jealous and angry. Just because you were married, she was supposed to live the kind of "separation" that you did, or she's a ho? And when she wanted back together at first, your rejection as good as told her you didn't want her back, so really you have no right to judge anything she decided to do when you were clearly going down the path of divorce. You even said yourself it was close to being final. 

And yes, I think you are a hypocrite. Just because you can compartmentalize sex as just sex does NOT mean she does (fun fact: most women are NOT designed that way. Sex = emotional bond). Again, you want her to behave like you and you criticize her because she did differently. You are obviously disappointed in her actions, and they have tarnished your view of her. I'm saying your view had been pretty rose colored until now. 

She is not you. She's her own person, makes her own decisions and choices. And you're appalled that she can choose to slag you off to another man. A man who didn't separate with her then reject her when she wanted to fix things. Well, most women I know would have badmouthed you if they were hurt enough and bonded enough to another man. I would have done it, too. That's what anger and hurt does to you - it makes you want to hurt the person closest to you so they can stop thinking about you. It's not sane or right but that's the reality. Maybe this is the first time you've ever acknowledged that she was clearly hurt and angry by what you did, so she sought comfort and you read that saga in all its glory. Maybe this is something you missed all through your marriage and you need to face now: this woman can hurt you. What does that mean? Does that mean you have feelings for her, even though you separated and further rejected her idea of getting back together? If that were really your motivation, you wouldn't care what she did while separated. You wouldn't even be getting back with her. 

So I have to ask: was your separation meant to punish her? Because if so, you now see how such an idea can backfire on you.


----------



## Openminded

She's apparently in love with him but is going to R -- for whatever reason -- with you. That's obviously not a good start for R. You need MC before you jump back into living together. This needs to be discussed in front of a counselor so you're going to have to own up to invading her privacy. She's going to be very angry and may decide not to R because of it. But if you don't tell her what you know then it will continue to bother you and your R won't succeed. Either completely clear the air -- with the risk that she may not R -- or continue getting a divorce.


----------



## aine

marc85 said:


> My wife and I separated in October 2016, and we have been reconciling for the last 3 weeks. We are not living together at this point. We will consider it further down the line. I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating.
> 
> Long story short (because the rest sure as **** won’t be), my wife left her phone at my apartment. When she let me know she had lost it I checked my apartment, found it, and looked through it. Out of sheer curiosity I looked through it, no sense in lying and saying I stumbled upon them while dialing 911 because a cat was stuck in a tree.
> 
> I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take) I don’t know anything about that relationship because my wife has always refused to talk about it. Other relationships, no problem but that one she has always guarded. All she has ever said was that he was very important/special to her.
> 
> The conversation started February and ended a week ago. As far as I can tell, my wife initiated the reconnection. One of our biggest arguments before we separated was ex-GF/BF’s. She absolutely hated that I had any contact with an ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago. I disagreed that ex’s cannot be friends. She had no contact with any of her ex’s, because she was under the impression feelings would reemerge OR that there was simply no reason to contact them. I say this because, based on what I read her feelings for him have definitely reemerged.
> 
> They have been driving 8 hours (each way) to see each other for short periods of time, seems like only when I had our kids. So I could go with a pro that at least my kids have not been around the douchenozzle, or con and that I was caring for our kids so she could go **** her lover. Based on the texts they were clearly physically intimate. My wife isn’t the kind of person to have casual sex, she has sexual abuse in her past and has restricted sex to those she really cares about. The big I love you was exchanged many times from both parties. Lots of “I wish I never lost you”, “You were the one that got away”, “I have always loved you”. They had plans about moving closer to each other or moving in together. My wife told him that he was the most important person in her life, the best relationship she had ever had, the only person she has been in love with. That I was second best and could never measure up. That she wished HE fathered her kids instead of me. They texted basically all day, every day with gaps for when they were together. She has a million pictures of herself and him on her phone. I had never known what he looked like but it doesn’t take a genius to put it together. He has a stupid name, so that part was easy to figure out. The insecure part of me acknowledges that he is more attractive and much fitter. She never wanted to take pictures of us, and she looked truly happy in those pictures she took with him.
> 
> The only positive I can find in the situation is that they had stopped communication. At least, it appears that way. But she kept the conversation and the 10 million pictures. This is their last conversation:
> 
> “My husband and I are going to try and get back together. I have to try… I’ll miss you but I have to try.” - wife
> 
> “He’s not good enough for you. You deserve better and I don’t want to be the one who told you I told you so.” - ex
> 
> “I have to give it one final try. I need to know for myself and our kids that I tried the best I could.”  - wife
> 
> “I can’t wait forever. You know that you should be with me.” -ex
> 
> “I know, and I don’t expect you to. Seeing you with someone else again would be so painful. I may regret my choice later, but for right now this is what I have to do. I can’t talk to you anymore, it will hurt too much.” - wife
> 
> “I love you. You know that.” - ex
> 
> “I’m always going to love you.” -wife
> 
> Then he called her and there hasn’t been another call or text since.
> 
> Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker? No, she did not cheat on me and I’m the one the initiated the separation - she was free to do what she wanted - but this is a bit far. Can she ever be trusted? Not only with cheating (with him) but trust that she genuinely wants to reconcile and is happy with ME? Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself? A large part of me is insanely pissed off and wants to kill the guy for getting involved with and ****ing my wife. For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) _my_ wife.


You have not explained why you separated, that might be a key to her behaviour.

If the deal was you go your separate ways and do what you like then you have no business getting in her business, after all you got what you wanted, a separate life.

Did you date people when you were separated?

It seems to me, you separated but now when another man wants your wife you are all indignant, sorry I don't see what you have to be mad about.

Quite honestly, for a woman, when she is abandoned (through separation) she will never trust you again. I think you have to explain about the separation, that is the real crux of this whole thing. Come to think of it, I think she is better off with the other man, you don't sound like a very loving kind of guy to me.


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## Youngwife1000

@marc85

I think if you want to move forward you need to clear this, your wife has done nothing wrong and actually maybe in a period of wanting to tell you but scared she will loose you again, you ended it then rejected her. She's actually probably really weary of you. 
I think you could avoid a lot of unnecessary battles if you are honest. I disagree with holding this information as some sort of weapon over her, why would you do that to a person you are supposed to love and want genuine reconciliation.
You need to come to her in a humble manner Not angry or ego bashed. Come to her and let her know in a gentle manner that you've read all the messages that you know what's happened, let her know calmly your fears and how you feel about it. If you want honesty from her, you need to make her feel in a safe place and environment so she can open up to you without fear of you rejecting her AGAIN, or shouting or using it as a weapon. It sounds like she has been through a whirlwind of emotions herself. She probably thought she felt all these amazing feelings because of the attention after rejection. 
You both need to speak through this in counselling. You want truths? Do it through love, not a bruised ego. Ultimately you put her in the position, she wanted you first. 


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## EleGirl

marc85 said:


> Reconciling, like separation, was my idea. So it could be true that she left him for me when I wanted to take her back. When we separated we didn't intend on getting back together. In a few months our divorce would be final. We didn't set any rules or guidelines, because I didn't expect to get back together with her (she wanted to get back together for the first few months, prior to contact with her ex started; I assumed she got over it and dropped it). I would be lying if I said I didn't see other women casually but this is apples and oranges. I wasn't in love with any of them and didn't wish I could re-write history to be with them instead. They talked about having children together for gods sake. We separated because we were fighting non-stop, had nothing in common and wanted different things in life. We have gone to therapy together a few times now and all of our problems seem fixable. They mostly stemmed from a lack of effort on both sides. Wanting different things in life was sort of obliterated by an unplanned pregnancy so that's beside the point. We married young and too soon - my wife was 20, I was 25 and we married after 3 months of being together. We had a couple good years followed by a few bad years. The good years were very good. Things went down the toilet when we stopped putting in effort.


You are the one who wanted the separation. Were you the one who filed for divorce?

Of course she started to date just as you did. 




marc85 said:


> I don't like the idea of her ex always being around and me always worrying.


You are going to have to tell her that you snooped. If you don't it's going to eat away at you. And it will be this thing that hangs around ruining your relationship with her. 

But then again, if you tell her, it's also going to be this thing that hangs around. I don't think you are going to be able to accept it for what it is... something that is none of your business.

How do you think she would feel if she knew the intimate things you did with other women, then things you told them? Did you talk about your wife to any of them?


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## citygirl4344

alexm said:


> I like what Sun said - level-headed, logical, and not wrong at all.
> 
> 
> 
> But, know that this guy will pop up again. And again. And again. And your wife will be tempted again. And again. And again.
> 
> 
> 
> At some point, perhaps 5 years, 10 years or even 20 years down the road, she won't have stopped thinking "what if". When things get boring, or life is too much to handle - her thoughts will turn to him. If there's ever another bump in your marriage - he will magically appear.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with Sun that she's "choosing" you - that _he's_ the Plan B. But do you really want to be married to someone who HAS a Plan B?




QFT

Bang on. This guy is going to keep popping up. Believe me. They will reconnect every time things get difficult and it'll fizzle when things are great.
Even if it's just texting.
I've been there I know.
That you would have, in the future, have every right to be angry about.
This scenario you are describing now...nope.
Why did you want a separation?


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## Married but Happy

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You've chosen the wrong default setting. They were separated, but still married. Unless they openly and unambiguously agreed to conditions that expressly allowed for extramarital contact, this was definitely outside the marriage, tenuous though it may have been.


Yeah, it should have been worded the other way. However, if the separation was construed as an end to the marriage, then she had freedom to do as she wished. Only if it was clearly intended as a cooling off period to facilitate getting back together would she have broken their understanding. Given the long duration, it would seem to be the prelude to a permanent rift.


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## alexm

Married but Happy said:


> Yeah, it should have been worded the other way. However, if the separation was construed as an end to the marriage, then she had freedom to do as she wished. Only if it was clearly intended as a cooling off period to facilitate getting back together would she have broken their understanding. Given the long duration, it would seem to be the prelude to a permanent rift.


OP said there wasn't any intention of getting back together, so it's fair game.

That said, my post still stands - she has a Plan B. No matter how OP found this out, it's the reality of this marriage now - there's somebody waiting in the wings for her should she ever get bored, angry, complacent, whatever. And even if she doesn't, you can bet everything you have that OM will pop up every once in a while to "see how things are going" and check in on her.

It doesn't really matter if this is a new relationship, or it's a reconciliation attempt - nobody in their right mind wants their partner to have a Plan B, even if they're the Plan A. No thank you.

While it's highly likely that she said these things to the OM out of desperation, or to placate him (ie. she didn't _really_ mean them) - she still did.

Where OP is going off the rails in this is by holding his new-found information over her head.

What he should be doing, IMO, is telling her straight up that he saw her texts and that this concerns him greatly for the future of their marriage. This should come across in a very non-judgemental way. She didn't technically do anything wrong (though some of what she said is definitely hurtful - wishing OM fathered her kids? Ouch). If they're going to try again, she deserves to know that he knows these things.

Holding information over her like that is not a great start for reconciliation.


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## Emerging Buddhist

Whatever is driving her to reconcile, she will not be able to live two loves and thus, two lives.

One of them will be honest... 

OP, you need to tell her what you read... full disclosure.

If she is truthful... she will be doing both of you a favor.


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## dubsey

I guess, if I'm you, I don't want my kids growing up thinking it's ok to be 2nd best, because even if she loves you, it'll still show. Just tell her you saw it, and if she meant what she said, she should go be with him. Neither of you will ever truly be happy if what she said is the truth, and not just blowing sunshine up his arse.

You don't need to be mad, or jealous about it. Just be matter-of-fact, and ask her if it's true. If you care for her, it might be the best gift you could give her.


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## Huntafox

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Is she your back up? You tried some others and realized it's not all fantasy out there and figure you'll settle back with your wife?
> 
> 
> 
> Honest question. What sparked the choice to want to get back together?
> 
> 
> 
> She loved him and he loved her. She made the choice that working on her marriage and family was more worth it to her.
> 
> 
> 
> Doesn't sound like she was being hiding or sneaking. She clearly told him she was going back with you and didn't try to have both at once.
> 
> 
> 
> She waited until it was clear that it was over with you before she went for another man.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like she's done everything right.
> 
> 
> 
> Problem I see happening is you won't be able to let it go. You will eventually blow up at her about it. You'll tell her that her sleeping with him was worse than what you did. You'll question her, accuse her, bring it up down the road.
> 
> 
> 
> Unless you know 100% that won't happen, you shouldn't get back with her. You simply can not hold this against her. This is your ego's problem, not hers.




I totally agree with you there. It clear as daylight that your only upset that someone could make your wife feel like special and loved far more than you did. And also agree that just because you causally saw other women but did not manifest your love or desires to start a family with them doesn't make you come out the better end of the stick.


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## Luvher4life

In my opinion, the wife didn't do anything "wrong" considering that she wanted to work on the marriage, and the husband didn't. There were no ground rules with separation which the husband initiated, while she wanted to work it out. BOTH slept with other people. However, the wife didn't sleep with anybody until after she felt the marriage was over. That is my understanding. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. There shouldn't be any double standard here.

My advice? Let it go and move on, or just walk away. I'm more inclined to say walk away in this instance due to the fact that the husband is going to have trouble letting her past go. He will be comparing himself to her former lover off and on throughout the reconciliation process and beyond, and most likely not in a favorable light. This will certainly plague him with self-doubt and trust issues with her.

Are there any guarantees that the marriage will work the second time around? Are the problems that plagued the marriage before still going to be there later, leading back to where you are now? Are you BOTH willing to do the work to make sure all of the differences are worked out? It will certainly take the full commitment of both spouses.

There would most certainly be ground rules established BEFORE any attempt at reconciliation. First, BOTH of you need to come clean as to what you did while separated. Secondly, make sure that those affairs are completely over and behind you. Thirdly, make a full on commitment to do the work to make the marriage work, and that requires BOTH parties full cooperation. Finally, figure out what went wrong previously and how you will address it.

I will add that if you are doing it "just for the kids", you will likely fail. It has to be something both of you want for each other, too. You have to love each other above all else.


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## Spicy

If your wife heard or read the things you said to the women that you dirty talked into bed while going through your divorce, how would they have made her feel? Hurt, disgusted, devastated? Yet, she would have no right to know those things. You were done with her. 

You view them as irrelevant because it was only sex with no feelings. On the other hand your wife chose to have sex with someone she cared about, rather than random men. And YOU had no right to know those things. She was done with you.

You snooped. Now it is burned in your mind. If you want to save your marriage you need to tell her what you did and then if she still is willing to speak to you, perhaps she will elaborate on her feelings, and you can both make decisions on what to do next. 

Hiding your knowledge from the snooping would be an epic mistake, IMO.


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## Primrose

marc85 said:


> Yes, she ended things with him but for how long? It has only been a week they have been out of contact. If she could end it that quickly and easily for me, how long until she does the same for him?


You would have cause for concern had she always kept contact with him throughout your marriage, but she DIDN'T. You even said that she was against contact with exes because of the possibility of crossing the line. She obviously has strong personal boundaries when she is committed. 

After 4 months of being without you, and you refusing to try again during the separation, she decided to move on. You moved on, too. 

A part of me thinks you are only upset because she was no longer desperate for you. It's a blow to your ego. 

She has it going for her that she was open and honest with him about wanting to try with you one more time. She did this without the knowledge that you would be snooping. So, my personal opinion is that she is a woman of integrity, and frankly, maybe she deserves for you to let her go. It sounds like she is YOUR Plan B as well.


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## sokillme

OP if your wife truly loves this man why would you want her? It's not wrong for he to fall in love with another man when you told her you were done with her, so she did. That was the consequence. In the same respect maybe you should just accept that and wish her well. For you, don't you want a women who is fully invested in you? You had that before and gave that away, doesn't seem like you can get it back with this one. There will be others though.

If it was me I would say, my bad, and wish her well. She deserves to be with who she loves and you do to. I don't think that is you anymore, and honestly if she had dumped you and moved on the same could have been said of you. That's life. 

Now if I was this other guy and she just dumped me and moved on after saying those things I don't think I would take her back. What a mess.


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## lifeistooshort

So let's sum this up:

I kicked my wife out and made clear I wanted a divorce. She wanted to work things out but I refused and proceeded to **** other women. 

She then goes to her ex by as sleeps with him.

Ive now decided I want her back and am pissed off because she had the nerve to have feelings for him. She was supposed to keep it casual and wait for me to see if I could do better.

My ****ing other women was no big deal because it was all casual, but my wife had some nerve to be emotionally involved with another guy until I decided I absolutely didn't want her back.

And she'd better tell me everything because even though I made clear I was done her life is still my business.

Ok then..... that's not how the world works.


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## GusPolinski

Her texts to him say it all -- she clearly wants to be with him.

So just let her go, else you settle for never being any better than second best.


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## aine

Do your wife a favour and let her go. A man who separates, starts divorce proceedings, without counselling etc then pulls his wife back in then judges her and holds her to a higher standard than he holds himself, he is not good for her. LET HER GO and be with a man who truly loves and cares for her. 

The way you speak about her, calling her stupid etc shows that you have no respect for her. I can imagine what she has gone through with you. I think she should wake up and get the hell away from you as far as possible.

Do you even hear yourself?

Stay single while you work on yourself and your self-righteousness, you need it!


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## SunCMars

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Is she your back up? You tried some others and realized it's not all fantasy out there and figure you'll settle back with your wife?
> 
> Honest question. What sparked the choice to want to get back together?
> 
> She loved him and he loved her. She made the choice that working on her marriage and family was more worth it to her.
> 
> Doesn't sound like she was being hiding or sneaking. She clearly told him she was going back with you and didn't try to have both at once.
> 
> She waited until it was clear that it was over with you before she went for another man.
> 
> Sounds like she's done everything right.
> 
> Problem I see happening is you won't be able to let it go. You will eventually blow up at her about it. You'll tell her that her sleeping with him was worse than what you did. You'll question her, accuse her, bring it up down the road.
> 
> *Unless you know 100% that won't happen, you shouldn't get back with her. You simply can not hold this against her.* This is your ego's problem, not hers.


Oh, I so agree with this post.

If it were me, I would have my own mind-movies. Him making love to her...and she coming back to me. While giving it to to her, I would just pound harder, so happy would be my pride-bound mind be.

He did not wear your wife's vagina out....no, he warmed it up for you. For you, now to enjoy. You should wear her out. Make her walk bow-legged. *And I would give her one year to make sure she knows she is in the right bed.* And that she knows which penis she really wants. She can only have one.

You want this marriage to work? Quit complaining and fighting with her. Keep her happy, keep her sated.

If you are on the fence. Leave her. And in @peacem.


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## musiclover

You separated, you didn't want to work it out... Shame on you for going thru her phone then. Seriously, you wanted a divorce cut it out


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## Rick Blaine

This is a classic case that models why it is a bad idea to date when separated. At the very least wait till the marriage is dissolved before moving forward. And let's not forget that a separated person is still married. Both parties erred.


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## BetrayedDad

marc85 said:


> “I love you. You know that.” - ex
> 
> “I’m always going to love you.” -wife














marc85 said:


> Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker?


You are not wrong. Clearly she is in an ONGOING emotional affair with this guy. She NEVER gave you a f***ing chance.



marc85 said:


> Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself?


No, you're an idiot if you stay. She doesn't really love you. She's been pining away for this dude.

How do you except to retain a shred of self respect knowing this ex is literally on stand-by?

That in one phone call she an be bobbing up and down on his Johnson within the hour? 

Come one dude, she's trash. She was never loyal to you. She's got plan b, c and d nailed down.


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## Cynthia

There are so many aspect to this whole thing. I understand SunCMars position in keeping this in your pocket and using it if necessary and in theory it sounds great, but in practice it does not do what marriage is supposed to be about. It does not bring you together.

You rejected your wife. She made it clear that she wanted to work things out with you. She went looking for someone to love her. Someone who had loved her before. Someone who would soothe her and make her feel valuable. She told him she would rather have had children with him than with you. Why do you think she told him that? 

My theory is that she wished she had stayed and had her children with someone who loved her and wasn’t going to leave her, like you did. She had always seen him as a back-up – Plan B. You are clearly Plan A. Her children are your children and she wants her family to be together. She is hoping that you will really love her and not leave her again. I think what she was saying is that she didn't want a broken family. Before you asked her to reconcile, she was thinking about building a new life with the man who said he loved her and she wished that she stayed with him and not had a broken family. Now that she is reconciling with you, I seriously doubt she is still wishing he was the father of her children. She wants the father of her children to build a secure family with her. It's about security. It's not about him. It's about what he was offering her that you had said you would not give her, but now you say you will. The question is; Will you? Will you give her the security and love she is craving for her and the children?

If you really want things to work with your wife, you’re going to have to be in unity with her. Both of you need to work towards unity in all areas of your lives together. That doesn’t mean you aren’t separate people with separate interests. It means that you love and support each other and do nothing that tears you apart.

My recommendation is that you have an attitude of grace towards your wife and recognize the depth of sorrow she must have felt over the demise of your marriage and how hurt she was. When you asked for reconciliation, she jumped at the chance and ditched her Plan B lover immediately. Yes, she left open that window in case you ditch her again and she probably meant what she said, because she doesn’t trust you – yet.

Build trust with your wife. Seek to love her and bring her close to you. She needs your love and she needs to feel secure that you are going to put her first and be the love of her life again. Yes, you obviously were the love of her life, despite what she told the other man. But how can she say that if she really doesn’t know how you feel about her? 

I think it may be best to tell her that you read her texts between her and ex and you want a fresh start with the two of you. No Mr.Ex in the background – only you and her from now on working towards a deeply connected and loving marriage where you totally have each other’s backs. Have her block his number and delete all the texts. Let him go. No Plan B. There is only Plan A for both of you.

She may become angry that you read her texts, but if you want to work things out with her and make your family the best it can be, you have to be a safe person for her to share her heart with. Right now you aren’t or she would have already told you about this. Make it safe that you know and show her that you love her and want to be the love of her life again. Be the safety net she is looking for. Replace her Plan B man who is currently her safety net. Be her one and only and show her that she is your one and only and that’s how you want it for the rest of your life.

If you two work together to be the safe and loving couple that both of you desire, she will have no need for a Plan B and neither will you. Her Plan B was to look for love. Your Plan B was to look for no string attached sex. She wants commitment and love. Do you? If you do, you’re going to have to prove it to her, because right now she is probably scared out of her mind that she’s going to end up with Plan B rather than Plan A. You are Plan A. The idea is to work together so there is only Plan A for both of you and both of you are secure in knowing that.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

BetrayedDad said:


> You are not wrong. Clearly she is in an ONGOING emotional affair with this guy. She NEVER gave you a f***ing chance.
> 
> 
> 
> No, you're an idiot if you stay. She doesn't really love you. She's been pining away for this dude.
> 
> How do you except to retain a shred of self respect knowing this ex is literally on stand-by?
> 
> That in one phone call she an be bobbing up and down on his Johnson within the hour?
> 
> Come one dude, she's trash. She was never loyal to you. She's got plan b, c and d nailed down.


Are we reading the same thread? She gave him a chance after HE decided to separate and when HE told her there was no chance she moved on, as he also did. 
When he wanted to reconcile she ended it with her boyfriend. 

She's trash? What is he for casually sleeping with other women during the same time? 


And we ALL have a Plan B. If our marriage doesn't work out we find someone else and create a new Plan A or we find happiness alone. That's our Plan B.


----------



## BetrayedDad

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Are we reading the same thread? She gave him a chance after HE decided to separate and when HE told her there was no chance she moved on, as he also did.
> When he wanted to reconcile she ended it with her boyfriend.
> 
> She's trash? What is he for casually sleeping with other women during the same time?


She's not trash for seeing other people during their separation.... why would he care if he did the same?

She's TRASH for carrying on an EA (and possibly PA) behind his back for EIGHT YEARS. She's a cheat.



marc85 said:


> I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take)


You don't just "wake up" one day and decide to date the high school QB again.

She's being pining away for years, keeping in contact and keeping this guy in her back pocket. 

Spouse's who carry around an "insurance policy" are no one any sane person should stay with.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

She didn't have an EA or a PA for 8 years or any years. 

She had no contact with the guy until AFTER her husband made it clear there was no hope for them. 

Ya, sometimes when you're single again you do look up old boyfriends. 

When I was single I looked up a few. Doesn't mean I was pining away for them while I wasn't single.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Oh and I'll always have an "insurance plan" in case something doesn't work out. 

That plan includes my own self worth, ability to support myself and kids and knowing I can find another partner easily if needed. 

Everyone should fight for the marriage as if their partner *can and will leave* and find someone new if you get lazy and stop working on it.


----------



## BetrayedDad

Clearly you don't understand what plan b is. Having self respect and finding a new partner if things don't work out is not plan b.

Looking up old high school boyfriends, telling them you ALWAYS HAVE and ALWAYS WILL love them, then trying to work things out is.

You'd be a fool to stay married to a person who wasn't 100% emotionally invested in YOU. OP should have more self worth than that.


----------



## ButtPunch

The I wish he sired my kids is a dealbreaker for me. 

FTS! I don't care what state the relationship was in at the time.

You read how she feels about you. 

Believe her.

Life has given you an out and I suggest you take it.


----------



## SunCMars

Spicy said:


> If your wife heard or read the things you said to the women that you dirty talked into bed while going through your divorce, how would they have made her feel? Hurt, disgusted, devastated? Yet, she would have no right to know those things. You were done with her.
> 
> You view them as irrelevant because it was only sex with no feelings. On the other hand your wife chose to have sex with someone she cared about, rather than random men. And YOU had no right to know those things. She was done with you.
> 
> You snooped. Now it is burned in your mind. If you want to save your marriage you need to tell her what you did and then if she still is willing to speak to you, perhaps she will elaborate on her feelings, and you can both make decisions on what to do next.
> 
> Hiding your knowledge from the snooping would be an epic mistake, IMO.


Nope, no "like" for you Spicy dear. I could not hit the "like" icon.

If he wants to "R" with this women, he needs to take his/her secret to the grave. 

I believe she told the OM that she loved him, he was the best... yadda, yadda to put OM at ease.

Plus, plus, plus.....put herself at ease. She crossed her own line. She does not want to feel "cheap" and "easy". Cheap/easy to the other man...cheap/easy to herself.

As mentioned earlier by me, I would take her back in a heartbeat......*because* of what she said. She said those things to him...but she is coming back to HIS BED, HIS ARMS. 

She had her fling with OM. But,, he was not good enough to hold her heart or her mind. He should NEVER reveal what he knows about their communications. Their admissions of love.

It was all fluff. She is coming back to his bed...she will romp in HIS bed, not OM'S. 

That said, she still needs monitoring. My thinking may be wrong. My heart is never wrong. I follow my heart.


----------



## Cynthia

BetrayedDad said:


> She's not trash for seeing other people during their separation.... why would he care if he did the same?
> 
> She's TRASH for carrying on an EA (and possibly PA) behind his back for EIGHT YEARS. She's a cheat.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't just "wake up" one day and decide to date the high school QB again.
> 
> She's being pining away for years, keeping in contact and keeping this guy in her back pocket.
> 
> Spouse's who carry around an "insurance policy" are no one any sane person should stay with.


I completely disagree with this. She went back to someone she thought would make her feel better and found comfort in the arms of an old boyfriend. When her husband changed his mind, she dumped the boyfriend in half a breath with a foundation for plan B and ran back to hubby.


----------



## ButtPunch

CynthiaDe said:


> I completely disagree with this. She went back to someone she thought would make her feel better and found comfort in the arms of an old boyfriend. When her husband changed his mind, she dumped the boyfriend in half a breath with a foundation for plan B and ran back to hubby.


I agree here but the things she wrote were mortifying.


----------



## citygirl4344

ButtPunch said:


> I agree here but the things she wrote were mortifying.




True they are terrible.
Doesn't mean she actually meant them. It really could have been a case of telling someone what she knew they wanted him to hear.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JustTheFacts

The next time that you speak with your wife, please let her know that JustTheFacts says that trying to R with you would be a big mistake. She shouldn't allow herself to be your personal yo-yo. I feel sorry for her. I truly do.


----------



## marc85

I decided to attempt reconciliation with my wife because I felt like I need to. Time away from my wife and family taught me what is important, what I truly wanted and needed, and what I didn’t really need. When I left my wife a major reason was because I felt we were not compatible and I wanted someone who I was more similar to. My wife and I have very few common interests, simple things such as music, tv and movies, to hobbies, preferences, food tastes and wants in life. Trying to say what we do have in common would be tough. I thought I wanted to be with a woman who I was more similar to. Every ex I have had I had a lot in common with - all of those relationships failed. I did casually see other women during our separation, none of them were my wife regardless of common interests or not. Our failure wasn’t due to our lack of similarity, it was due to laziness. After the first two years I had no desire to put in an effort to find a common hobby or compromise on anything. I am 110% aware that I made errors and that I need to correct them for this marriage to work. 

My wife and I have both acknowledged our mistakes and acknowledged the things that we need to change. We married too quickly (3 months after meeting) and didn’t care for the marriage like we should have. We completely disagreed about kids, my wife wanted 2-3 and I wanted 0-1. After our first was born I was done, we had an accidental pregnancy and jumped from 1 to 3 and we’re both done. So that major disconnect has been resolved and the stress of it has subsided over time. I personally am not one to stay together for the kids. I don’t believe in it. I believe in trying a bit harder for them, but ultimately I’m not going to create two miserable parents and thus miserable kids just to call ourselves a family unit. 

I saw my wife today and when I had a few seconds to see her phone she had changed the passcode. IMO, red flag. I’m not sure if I want to reconcile with her at this point but if she still has contact with her ex-boyfriend then it’s a definite hell no. We need to talk about it and she needs to cease all contact, forever. One peep of him and we’re done. 

I do need to talk to her about it and ask her if she truly meant what she said. If she loves him, wants to be with him, wants kids with him, wishes he fathered our kids, misses him every day, then she can go be with him. Maybe keep her around for a while in hopes that her ex will find someone else or lose interest and she’ll be up the creek without a paddle. I’m starting to doubt that she had ZERO contact with him whatsoever during our marriage. It seems more likely that they have always stayed in contact to some degree and she was projecting her insecurities to me regarding an ex of mine. When I think of her I imagine her sucking her ex’s **** or ****ing him while he tries to defy birth control and knock her up. 

If she lies about it when I ask her if she saw anyone while we were separated, I’m out the door. If she tells the truth, has some great reasons for the trash she said to her ex, and can convince me that she wants to be with me, then maybe we have a shot.


----------



## RandomDude

marc85 said:


> If she lies about it when I ask her if she saw anyone while we were separated, I’m out the door. If she tells the truth, has some great reasons for the trash she said to her ex, and can convince me that she wants to be with me, then maybe we have a shot.


Follow your instincts and remember to believe what you feel is the truth and not what you want to be the truth.


----------



## EleGirl

Married but Happy said:


> Yeah, it should have been worded the other way. However, if the separation was construed as an end to the marriage, then she had freedom to do as she wished. Only if it was clearly intended as a cooling off period to facilitate getting back together would she have broken their understanding. Given the long duration, it would seem to be the prelude to a permanent rift.


Um, he had filed for divorce and the divorce is almost complete.


----------



## EleGirl

BetrayedDad said:


> Clearly you don't understand what plan b is. Having self respect and finding a new partner if things don't work out is not plan b.
> 
> Looking up old high school boyfriends, telling them you ALWAYS HAVE and ALWAYS WILL love them, then trying to work things out is.
> 
> You'd be a fool to stay married to a person who wasn't 100% emotionally invested in YOU. OP should have more self worth than that.


OP kicked his wife out and separated. She kept asking to work on the marriage. He said no and filed for divorce. The divorce is almost final. 

She started to date again AFTER he completely rejected her. After he was dating other people. 

She did not have an 8 year affair. She had no contact with her high school bf until after her husband kicked her out and filed for divorce.

Of course she bad her almost-ex (OP) to the boyfriend. He almost-ex threw her out like yesterday's trash. Of course she wished that she had married the boyfriend, her husband dumped her, filed for divorce, was sleeping with other women.

It's ridiculous for the OP to be upset because she badmouthed him to her boyfriend. that's that people do when they are dumped, when their spouse files for divorce when they want to reconcile.

Now suddenly the OP decided to try to reconcile. She wants to be with her husband (almost-ex, OP) so much that she ended the thing with the boyfriend.

Clearly, despite what she said to the boyfriend in her hurt, she loves the OP enough to want to reconcile.

Personally I think she should give up on the marriage and the OP. But to demonize her is beyond ridiculous. To call her trash is way over the line.


----------



## EleGirl

ButtPunch said:


> I agree here but the things she wrote were mortifying.


Don't you think that the OP dumping her, refusing to reconcile, sleeping with other women, filing for divorce mortified her? 

Apparently he expects her to forgive him for the horrible way he treated her and what he did.

But he cannot forgive her for what she did, when she only did it after he dumped her.

The things he did are mortifying.


----------



## EleGirl

marc85 said:


> I decided to attempt reconciliation with my wife because I felt like I need to. Time away from my wife and family taught me what is important, what I truly wanted and needed, and what I didn’t really need. When I left my wife a major reason was because I felt we were not compatible and I wanted someone who I was more similar to. My wife and I have very few common interests, simple things such as music, tv and movies, to hobbies, preferences, food tastes and wants in life. Trying to say what we do have in common would be tough. I thought I wanted to be with a woman who I was more similar to. Every ex I have had I had a lot in common with - all of those relationships failed. I did casually see other women during our separation, none of them were my wife regardless of common interests or not. Our failure wasn’t due to our lack of similarity, it was due to laziness. After the first two years I had no desire to put in an effort to find a common hobby or compromise on anything. I am 110% aware that I made errors and that I need to correct them for this marriage to work.
> 
> My wife and I have both acknowledged our mistakes and acknowledged the things that we need to change. We married too quickly (3 months after meeting) and didn’t care for the marriage like we should have. We completely disagreed about kids, my wife wanted 2-3 and I wanted 0-1. After our first was born I was done, we had an accidental pregnancy and jumped from 1 to 3 and we’re both done. So that major disconnect has been resolved and the stress of it has subsided over time. I personally am not one to stay together for the kids. I don’t believe in it. I believe in trying a bit harder for them, but ultimately I’m not going to create two miserable parents and thus miserable kids just to call ourselves a family unit.
> 
> I saw my wife today and when I had a few seconds to see her phone she had changed the passcode. IMO, red flag. I’m not sure if I want to reconcile with her at this point but if she still has contact with her ex-boyfriend then it’s a definite hell no. We need to talk about it and she needs to cease all contact, forever. One peep of him and we’re done.
> 
> I do need to talk to her about it and ask her if she truly meant what she said. If she loves him, wants to be with him, wants kids with him, wishes he fathered our kids, misses him every day, then she can go be with him. Maybe keep her around for a while in hopes that her ex will find someone else or lose interest and she’ll be up the creek without a paddle. I’m starting to doubt that she had ZERO contact with him whatsoever during our marriage. It seems more likely that they have always stayed in contact to some degree and she was projecting her insecurities to me regarding an ex of mine. When I think of her I imagine her sucking her ex’s **** or ****ing him while he tries to defy birth control and knock her up.
> 
> If she lies about it when I ask her if she saw anyone while we were separated, I’m out the door. If she tells the truth, has some great reasons for the trash she said to her ex, and can convince me that she wants to be with me, then maybe we have a shot.


Does your wife know about every woman you 'casually' date while you were separated and sowing your wild oats? Does she know the extent of every one of those relationships? 

If you are going to ask her about whether or not she saw anyone while separated, you need to provide her with a list of every woman, their name, contact info, how many times you went out with them, how many times you had sex with them, and other details.

Have you ever bad mouthed your wife to anyone? If you have you need to disclose that too, let her know to whom and what you said.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

The thing is, his wife is a liar. This will become evident when she dishonestly answers Marc's questions about whether she saw anyone, whether she has feelings for anyone else, etc.

So when she was telling the old boyfriend that she loved him forever and wished he sired her children, guess what... she was LYING. We always tell infidelity victims to judge their WS by ACTIONS, not WORDS. Well, here's our chance. Her ACTIONS in this case have been to choose her husband over her boyfriend. My guess is that she wanted to accomplish 2 things in her break up: 1) to let her boyfriend down easy, and 2) simultaneously engage him in a sort of trashy fantasy romance novel of unrequited love. The novel is now over. 

In any case, Marc should definitely confront her with what he knows and watch her response closely.


----------



## Anthony Wellers

I'm no expert on separation issues, having not been there.

Did you separate to give each other some space and a chance to reconcile? Or was it a precursor to divorce?

I'll assume for the moment that it was the former. In this case (in my opinion, at least), even though the two of you are apart, you should still have remained exclusive. Obviously she isn't seeing it this way.



> For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) my wife.


Let me tell you something.

Jealousy is a word that is bandied about too much as a catch-all for various other feelings and states of mind. It is a (usually irrational) fear of losing someone, causing you to _think_ that she is being unfaithful. You end up imaging all kinds of scenarios. It can also be difficult to distinguish such feelings caused by jealousy from 'gut feelings' that something is going on.

When you _know_ that something is going on, it is no longer jealousy....it is betrayal!

Don't let ANYONE, especially not counsellors, tell you otherwise.

EDIT: In light of what other people have pointed out (and I should probably have picked up on), in this case there is no betrayal. You wanted the separation (and if I'm reading it right - divorce as well).


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

He's not actually entitled to know what she did while separated. She was a free woman once OP made it clear they were divorcing with no chance of getting back together. 

At this point he can either accept her as is or move on. What he can't do is guilt, shame or hold it over her in any way. 

She is not a WW and he has no right to treat her like one.


----------



## manwithnoname

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He's not actually entitled to know what she did while separated. She was a free woman once OP made it clear they were divorcing with no chance of getting back together.
> 
> At this point he can either accept her as is or move on. What he can't do is guilt, shame or hold it over her in any way.
> 
> *She is not a WW and he has no right to treat her like one*.


This is true, he initiated the separation. But.... changing the password after the reconciliation is pretty suspicious.


----------



## lifeistooshort

I wonder if OP has told his wife that he screwed other women during their separation?

Since he's so concerned with knowing what she did.

The double standard here is unbelievable.

It's no wonder she wishes a guy other than the one that dumped her, explored his own options, decided he wanted her back, and is now pissed off she looked elsewhere wasn't the father of her kids.

And on top of everything he's got the nerve the spy on what she did during the seperation HE initiated.

Rich.


----------



## SunCMars

EleGirl said:


> OP kicked his wife out and separated. She kept asking to work on the marriage. He said no and filed for divorce. The divorce is almost final.
> 
> She started to date again AFTER he completely rejected her. After he was dating other people.
> 
> She did not have an 8 year affair. She had no contact with her high school bf until after her husband kicked her out and filed for divorce.
> 
> Of course she bad her almost-ex (OP) to the boyfriend. He almost-ex threw her out like yesterday's trash. Of course she wished that she had married the boyfriend, her husband dumped her, filed for divorce, was sleeping with other women.
> 
> It's ridiculous for the OP to be upset because she badmouthed him to her boyfriend. that's that people do when they are dumped, when their spouse files for divorce when they want to reconcile.
> 
> Now suddenly the OP decided to try to reconcile. She wants to be with her husband (almost-ex, OP) so much that she ended the thing with the boyfriend.
> 
> Clearly, despite what she said to the boyfriend in her hurt, she loves the OP enough to want to reconcile.
> 
> Personally I think she should give up on the marriage and the OP. But to demonize her is beyond ridiculous. To call her trash is way over the line.


In one sense:

I am happy for her. She got to live with another man. It may have been anticlimactic....not in bed, but in fact. It gave the poor lady perspective. Real life perspective. 
Another man held her close, nuzzled up to her. Made her feel wanted and whole.....but only temporarily. She missed her husbands flesh, his scent. I hope OP sees this. And rewards her....not chastises her.

Love em...or leave em. She must love you.

Let destiny rule the day...do not fight yesterday's mistakes.

Prove me wrong!

And for God's Sake, lighten up. Lighten your hard heart.


----------



## ButtPunch

EleGirl said:


> Don't you think that the OP dumping her, refusing to reconcile, sleeping with other women, filing for divorce mortified her?
> 
> Apparently he expects her to forgive him for the horrible way he treated her and what he did.
> 
> But he cannot forgive her for what she did, when she only did it after he dumped her.
> 
> The things he did are mortifying.


I'm not buying this excuse. They were breaking up. Big deal. We've all had breakups. 
Most people don't go around saying the things she said. I know I never did. Her true
feelings were revealed or she is a manipulative liar. Lose Lose as far as I'm concerned.

There must also be underlying issues for him to want a divorce in the place as well.


----------



## Lostinthought61

EleGirl said:


> Does your wife know about every woman you 'casually' date while you were separated and sowing your wild oats? Does she know the extent of every one of those relationships?
> 
> If you are going to ask her about whether or not she saw anyone while separated, you need to provide her with a list of every woman, their name, contact info, how many times you went out with them, how many times you had sex with them, and other details.
> 
> Have you ever bad mouthed your wife to anyone? If you have you need to disclose that too, let her know to whom and what you said.


You are completely missing the point, its called attachment, his wife is attached to her former ex, she told him she loved him, she told him she wants to be with him....he knows she might have sex with others as he did....their marriage is crowed with someone who should not be there...HER EX. How the hell is he going to move forward in this marriage if she still pines for the other guy? Cut him some slack.


----------



## ButtPunch

and wait for it......

She changed her password on her phone.

Shocker!

The fat lady has sung


----------



## dubsey

so what if she changed her code. At this point, she's done nothing wrong except try and find a new husband who she thought would make a good step-dad for her kids. Honestly, it reads like the ex is plan B. That dude is the one that should be pissed off, but even then, it appears she was upfront and honest with him. Again - hasn't done one thing wrong.

She's only done something wrong if she lies about what was said and continues to have contact with the ex-bf. All OP has to do here is ask her about it and hope/expect honesty. If he gets it, they move on and try and rebuild. If he doesn't, they don't. It's really that simple.


----------



## Rick Blaine

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> He's not actually entitled to know what she did while separated. She was a free woman once OP made it clear they were divorcing with no chance of getting back together.
> 
> At this point he can either accept her as is or move on. What he can't do is guilt, shame or hold it over her in any way.
> 
> She is not a WW and he has no right to treat her like one.


Wrong. Both were still married and so neither were free. That is why this is now so much more messy and why reconciliation will be more difficult.


----------



## Married but Happy

Rick Blaine said:


> Wrong. Both were still married and so neither were free. That is why this is now so much more messy and why reconciliation will be more difficult.


Disagree. Apparently, he filed for divorce, so while technically still married by law, by practice and by custom both are free to do as they wish - and both did.

IMO, she's foolish to even consider reconciliation, but she's trying to do the right thing by her family, if there is a chance that things can be made better.


----------



## lifeistooshort

Rick Blaine said:


> Wrong. Both were still married and so neither were free. That is why this is now so much more messy and why reconciliation will be more difficult.


Why? He told her he was done, so why could she not look elsewhere?

He certainly did and is now holding her to different standards.

I bet he hasn't even told her that he screwed other women.....since he's so concerned about honesty.


----------



## ButtPunch

lifeistooshort said:


> Why? He told her he was done, so why could she not look elsewhere?
> 
> He certainly did and is now holding her to different standards.
> 
> I bet he hasn't even told her that he screwed other women.....since he's so concerned about honesty.


I don't think it's the fact that she dated that bothers the OP. 

I think it's what she said.


----------



## GusPolinski

ButtPunch said:


> I don't think it's the fact that she dated that bothers the OP.
> 
> I think it's what she said.


Exactly correct.

Save the indignation and moral outrage for where it's warranted, folks.

Oh, and also...? Given that OP and his wife are supposed to be reconciling at this point, if she's STILL talking with her ex (she changed the passcode on her phone... DUH!), then she IS cheating now.

OP, its time for you to balls the **** up and talk with your wife about what you've learned.


----------



## RandomDude

Can't disagree with all that Elegirl but the words he found -> now that would make any man question whether his wife's feelings are still true. Regardless of relationship status.


----------



## marc85

I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:

A) It was her ex-boyfriend. 
B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him. 
C) The crap she said is unforgivable. 
D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him. 
E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?

Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


----------



## manwithnoname

marc85 said:


> I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:
> 
> A) It was her ex-boyfriend.
> B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him.
> C) The crap she said is unforgivable.
> D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him.
> E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?
> 
> Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


I figured this is what you were upset about, it was pretty clear from your earlier posts. Some on here like to play devil's advocate a little too much.

You can proceed with caution and investigate, or, if you truly can't get over any of what was said.....finish what you started.


----------



## marc85

manwithnoname said:


> I figured this is what you were upset about, it was pretty clear from your earlier posts. Some on here like to play devil's advocate a little too much.
> 
> You can proceed with caution and investigate, or, if you truly can't get over any of what was said.....finish what you started.


Projecting their own problems, hurt and anger on any remotely similar situation - even if the only similarity is someone of the same sex.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

You both separated, you both dated, she decided to have sex and you did as well. Oh well, it may bother you it was an ex, but it is YOUR fault and not wrong. I always like when people push the projection comment. Usually, it is their zeal to not be wrong and their own insecurities making them angry. 

Oh and I complete get why you are mad and it doesn't make it projection or devil's advocate to call you a hypocrite. I'd be pissed if it was an ex I always suspected. I'd even wonder if things were going on before we separated. So, I wouldn't take her back. Yet, here you sit trying to convince yourself of the right way to dump her again and make yourself feel better by being disingenuous. You are now arguing "I love You" vs. "Dirty Talk" and "Unknown Women" vs "Ex-BF."


You both screwed other people when you were separated, you are just adding context to get a "see, she is so much worse." No, she is not. You went for some strange and she went for comfort, nothing more and nothing less.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

manwithnoname said:


> I figured this is what you were upset about, it was pretty clear from your earlier posts. Some on here like to play devil's advocate a little too much.
> 
> You can proceed with caution and investigate, or, if you truly can't get over any of what was said.....*finish what you started*.


 Finish what you started. I doubt you'll ever get over what she said about you or any of the other things on your list. Do both of you a favor and get the divorce finalized. If by some miracle you hit your head and get amnesia and forget how she emasculated you to her ex then maybe you could have a relationship with her later down the road, but it'd have to be a helluva case of amnesia.


----------



## RandomDude

Aye, I know I wouldn't get back either...


"I will always love you?" 

Now when I broke up with my recent lover due to circumstance, who was simply one of the best I've dated, I said "I will always remember you fondly". There's a difference. Saying "I will always love you" especially in this context; seperated but not divorced, attempting reconciliation... nah, it's much.


----------



## EleGirl

Anthony Wellers said:


> I'm no expert on separation issues, having not been there.
> 
> Did you separate to give each other some space and a chance to reconcile? Or was it a precursor to divorce?
> 
> I'll assume for the moment that it was the former. In this case (in my opinion, at least), even though the two of you are apart, you should still have remained exclusive. Obviously she isn't seeing it this way.


Why would you assume that when the OP stated that while she wanted to get back together and work on things, after HE chose to leave her, he refused to get back with her. Then he FILED FOR DIVORCE. The divorce is almost complete from what he said.



Anthony Wellers said:


> Let me tell you something.
> 
> Jealousy is a word that is bandied about too much as a catch-all for various other feelings and states of mind. It is a (usually irrational) fear of losing someone, causing you to _think_ that she is being unfaithful. You end up imaging all kinds of scenarios. It can also be difficult to distinguish such feelings caused by jealousy from 'gut feelings' that something is going on.
> 
> When you _know_ that something is going on, it is no longer jealousy....it is betrayal!
> 
> Don't let ANYONE, especially not counsellors, tell you otherwise.


She did not betray him because he dumped her and filed for divorce. And he had sleeping with more than one woman apparently by his own words.


----------



## EleGirl

Lostinthought61 said:


> You are completely missing the point, its called attachment, his wife is attached to her former ex, she told him she loved him, she told him she wants to be with him....he knows she might have sex with others as he did....their marriage is crowed with someone who should not be there...HER EX. How the hell is he going to move forward in this marriage if she still pines for the other guy? Cut him some slack.


The OP dumped her and filed for divorce. He said that the divorce is almost over.

Maybe she's not pining for the other guy. Maybe she found out that he was not all that great after all. You don't know. I don't know.


Nope, I'm not cutting him some slack. He dumped her and filed for divorce. Now he's all upset because she believed that he would not reconciled and would go through with the divorce that he filed. So she stated getting on with her life. Now he's pissed that she did exactly what he told her to do... make a life without him.


----------



## EleGirl

marc85 said:


> I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:
> 
> A) It was her ex-boyfriend.
> B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him.
> C) The crap she said is unforgivable.
> D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him.
> E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?
> 
> Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


Then don't get back with your wife. You are not going to be able to get over this. It's unfair to your wife. Just stop this before it really gets ugly.


----------



## Anthony Wellers

EleGirl said:


> Why would you assume that when the OP stated that while she wanted to get back together and work on things, after HE chose to leave her, he refused to get back with her. Then he FILED FOR DIVORCE. The divorce is almost complete from what he said.
> 
> 
> 
> She did not betray him because he dumped her and filed for divorce. And he had sleeping with more than one woman apparently by his own words.


I see what you mean. Sounds like he wants to have it both ways if this is the case.


----------



## musiclover

marc85 said:


> I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:
> 
> A) It was her ex-boyfriend.
> B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him.
> C) The crap she said is unforgivable.
> D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him.
> E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?
> 
> Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


You told her you didn't want to get back together and were divorcing her... was she not supposed to have a life while you were divorcing? You should have never looked through her phone, you had no right to do that. And now your upset. I don't feel bad for you at all. Divorce her and move on, you won't get over what YOU started


----------



## RandomDude

You guys are tad too harsh in my opinion. True he started this, true he shouldn't have spied on her phone but she said "will always love you"... kinda makes you question the validity of the whole marriage.

She has done everything right at least physically sure, but the question of emotional affair during marriage...


----------



## *Deidre*

If she thinks another man is 'better' than you, and the love of her life, etc. why would she want to reconcile with you? Why do people make their lives so hard on this forum? 

I understand why you're upset, (it's not that she dated, I get it) and sounds like you need to just have a down to earth conversation with her, and ask her if her heart is somewhere else. Because if she truly loves another man, and the separation gave her the opportunity to explore that, then she will always be pining for the other guy, no matter what you do.


----------



## RandomDude

They have children


----------



## EleGirl

RandomDude said:


> You guys are tad too harsh in my opinion. True he started this, true he shouldn't have spied on her phone but she said "will always love you"... kinda makes you question the validity of the whole marriage.
> 
> She has done everything right at least physically sure, but the question of emotional affair during marriage...


My understanding is that she had no contact with her exbf during the marriage. Remember that the OP stated that she was upset because she continued friendships with ex girlfriends during the marriage. She thought it was not a good thing but he refused to give up those friendships.


----------



## RandomDude

Just doesn't add up, why would she use such strong words with him and marry someone else?


----------



## *Deidre*

/deleted reread the thread


----------



## *Deidre*

I just reread some of the thread, so the OP was filing for divorce and told his wife to live her own life. And he's angry that she slept with her ex, and now they're trying to reconcile?

I do understand why he's upset, but knowing that part of it, she was moving on with her life. I agree with Elegirl's advice then, about letting her go, because it would be unfair to her as this will likely always bother you, OP.


----------



## manwithnoname

I am neutral on this, OP put himself in that position by initiating the separation/filing for divorce and then opening this can of worms.

Yes, I don't see anything wrong with what she did. She did seek out a former lover when she thought it truly was over. And unfortunately he read some things that upset him. They could be true, we don't know. But in the end, actions vs words, she did agree to reconcile. But for what reasons, the kids? Comfort of lifestyle? 

Keep in mind two things: 

1. She texted the other guy for a full two weeks after reconciling
2. She changed her password (not necessarily a red flag, but it was apparently the same for years)


----------



## Satya

This is why we say here, threatening divorce is one thing. Initiating divorce and taking it to practically the end is saying loud and clear that you were done. 

Again, why does she have to act like you would? She was hurt and upset clearly. Sure, she can love you. But she can love you and still want to hurt you. Just like you might love her but now she is forever tarnished in your mind. If you stay together, you'll feel tortured by her deeds and she'll feel like she's always walking on eggshells with you.

Just finish what YOU started and move on.


----------



## Cynthia

ButtPunch said:


> I agree here but the things she wrote were mortifying.


Yes, they were. You're right. But I think those words likely meant, "I wish I had stayed with you and had children so I wouldn't have a broken family. After all I am back with you now and wouldn't have this mess if I'd stayed where I was."
I think she finds her husband to be a more exciting choice and someone who makes her heart beat faster, but the old ex is the steady guy she can rely on and wants to keep him in her back pocket in case her husband ditches her again.


marc85 said:


> I saw my wife today and when I had a few seconds to see her phone she had changed the passcode. IMO, red flag. I’m not sure if I want to reconcile with her at this point but if she still has contact with her ex-boyfriend then it’s a definite hell no. We need to talk about it and she needs to cease all contact, forever. One peep of him and we’re done.


Seriously? What about your old girlfriends? What about your buddies that you just had your fun with? Are willing to never have any communication with any of them again? Do you now see what your wife was talking about?

I go back to what I originally said. Talk to your wife about ditching all plan B’s and fully committing to each other. Stop being lazy with your wife and make things work with her. Love your wife. What you did before was not loving your wife. 

Your wife doesn’t have your passwords does she, which makes you a royal hypocrite. And you called her dumb for never changing her passwords. Now that she changed it you’re angry. Good grief. How does she put up with you in the first place? She must really be hooked on you.

Give all your passwords to your wife for everything and ask her to do the same. Transparency from here on out for both of you. This is you two joining your lives and having each other’s backs until death do you part. Any adversarial scenarios have to stop and you have to be on the same team.


marc85 said:


> If she lies about it when I ask her if she saw anyone while we were separated, I’m out the door. If she tells the truth, has some great reasons for the trash she said to her ex, and can convince me that she wants to be with me, then maybe we have a shot.


This is more adversarial attitude towards your wife. This is not reconciliation. This is war. Stop it. Stop treating your wife like this and start building bridges. You are just being mean. I don’t think you have a clue what you have put your wife through. I feel bad for her.



marc85 said:


> I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:
> 
> A) It was her ex-boyfriend.
> B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him.
> C) The crap she said is unforgivable.
> D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him.
> E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?
> 
> Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


If what she said is unforgiveable, then you should finish the divorce. Living with someone you refuse to forgive is foolish and mean. 
Who knows why she changed the code. Ask her! Your ability to communicate with your wife is severely lacking. You have an adversarial attitude towards a woman that you are considering “reconciling” with. This is not reconciliation. This is a war. If you are still considering reconciliation with your wife, take a new position. One of working with her and resolving the issues that are harming both of you. Rather than coming from a position of suspicion and anger, approach her with a loving heart and come together to solve whatever is between you. Otherwise let her go.
You left her and she thought it was over between you. Now you think there were ground rules that she broke. You made up these rules, but didn’t bother to tell her. Even if you did tell her, why would she abide by them when you were done with her? What makes you think that you can treat her like that?

People lie when they are afraid. Trying to catch your wife in a lie is not going to help anyone here. Again, you are making her out to be your enemy when you treat her like that. Acting like this is not designed to bring the two of you together and solve problems. Do you want to be at war or at peace? If you want to be at peace, you will have to change your tactics. Don’t make an environment where you wife is afraid. Make an environment where you wife has the benefits of the stead ex and the benefits of the husband who makes her heart beat faster. She wants you, but she is likely afraid. Don’t make her afraid. She needs to feel safe and secure with you. What you are doing is the opposite of making her safe and secure.


----------



## SunCMars

CynthiaDe said:


> Yes, they were. You're right. But I think those words likely meant, "I wish I had stayed with you and had children so I wouldn't have a broken family. After all I am back with you now and wouldn't have this mess if I'd stayed where I was."
> I think she finds her husband to be a more exciting choice and someone who makes her heart beat faster, but the old ex is the steady guy she can rely on and wants to keep him in her back pocket in case her husband ditches her again.
> 
> Seriously? What about your old girlfriends? What about your buddies that you just had your fun with? Are willing to never have any communication with any of them again? Do you now see what your wife was talking about?
> 
> I go back to what I originally said. Talk to your wife about ditching all plan B’s and fully committing to each other. Stop being lazy with your wife and make things work with her. Love your wife. What you did before was not loving your wife.
> 
> Your wife doesn’t have your passwords does she, which makes you a royal hypocrite. And you called her dumb for never changing her passwords. Now that she changed it you’re angry. Good grief. How does she put up with you in the first place? She must really be hooked on you.
> 
> Give all your passwords to your wife for everything and ask her to do the same. Transparency from here on out for both of you. This is you two joining your lives and having each other’s backs until death do you part. Any adversarial scenarios have to stop and you have to be on the same team.
> 
> 
> This is more adversarial attitude towards your wife. This is not reconciliation. This is war. Stop it. Stop treating your wife like this and start building bridges. You are just being mean. I don’t think you have a clue what you have put your wife through. I feel bad for her.
> 
> 
> If what she said is unforgiveable, then you should finish the divorce. Living with someone you refuse to forgive is foolish and mean.
> Who knows why she changed the code. Ask her! Your ability to communicate with your wife is severely lacking. You have an adversarial attitude towards a woman that you are considering “reconciling” with. This is not reconciliation. This is a war. If you are still considering reconciliation with your wife, take a new position. One of working with her and resolving the issues that are harming both of you. Rather than coming from a position of suspicion and anger, approach her with a loving heart and come together to solve whatever is between you. Otherwise let her go.
> You left her and she thought it was over between you. Now you think there were ground rules that she broke. You made up these rules, but didn’t bother to tell her. Even if you did tell her, why would she abide by them when you were done with her? What makes you think that you can treat her like that?
> 
> People lie when they are afraid. Trying to catch your wife in a lie is not going to help anyone here. Again, you are making her out to be your enemy when you treat her like that. Acting like this is not designed to bring the two of you together and solve problems. Do you want to be at war or at peace? If you want to be at peace, you will have to change your tactics. Don’t make an environment where you wife is afraid. Make an environment where you wife has the benefits of the stead ex and the benefits of the husband who makes her heart beat faster. She wants you, but she is likely afraid. Don’t make her afraid. She needs to feel safe and secure with you. What you are doing is the opposite of making her safe and secure.


I like this post a lot!


----------



## aine

marc85 said:


> I don't think people understand WHY I'm upset and mad. I'm not mad that she didn't stay single and celibate. I casually saw other women, there is no double standard. I am pissed off and hurt that:
> 
> A) It was her ex-boyfriend.
> B) She has always been secretive about that relationship and if her words are true she never got over him.
> C) The crap she said is unforgivable.
> D) I don't trust that she won't cheat or want to go back to him.
> E) She changed her passcode that has been the same for as long as I have known her, for what? What is she hiding?
> 
> Yes, I ****ed other women. Yes, I dirty talked to other women. Yes, my wife would be upset if she could be a fly on the wall during that time and was upset when she initially found out. However I never said any of the things to those women that she said to her ex. I didn't have a history with any of those women.


You still do not get it. You dumped her, you wanted to move on, so she looked for comfort with someone else. Women are not the same as men. You just wanted sex, she wanted love. If you cannot handle that after all she has done, let you dump her, attempt to divorce her, then dump him as soon as you wanted her back, you are really focusing on the wrong thing imo. If you cannot handle it then just let her down one more time and move along.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

So, I had a response and then slept on it. Here's my question, what is the real issue. If it was just this guy, you'd have came right out and said as much. It is interesting to me, you've basically engaged in trickle truth while accusing people of projection.


----------



## VFW

I don't see a moral high ground in this story, there are plenty of mistakes to go around here. I think you need to take a step back and a deep breath and decide if you love this woman. For any relationship to be successful, the relationship has to be more important than our own desires. I'm not sure you two are a good candidates for reconciliation, but it is highly unlikely without professional assistance. You two need to have a real heart to heart conversation about what you want moving forward. No talk about right and wrong, since there is a boat load of blame to go around, it is a moot point at best. You two need to put on your big boy and girl pants and make a decision that you will stand together and move forward or just cash in your chips. You two need to be honest with each other and yourselves.


----------



## MovingForward

manwithnoname said:


> Ask her if she dated anyone while you were separated. If she lies, you have the fact that she's a liar in addition to her preferring this other guy in every way.
> 
> Why does she want to reconcile? The kids?
> 
> Not sure I could take all that you read.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

This would be deciding factor for me also. My X is a compulsive liar and if you Wife is not honest here then I could say get out why you can and move on as she is not worth being with.


----------



## Cynthia

@marc85, can you give us an update? How are you doing?


----------



## No Longer Lonely Husband

*Deidre* said:


> I just reread some of the thread, so the OP was filing for divorce and told his wife tolive her own life. And he's angry that she slept with her ex, and now they're trying to reconcile?
> 
> I do understand why he's upset, but knowing that part of it, she was moving on with her life. I agree with Elegirl's advice then, about letting her go, because it would be unfair to her as this will likely always bother you, OP.


What I see from skimming through this thread is someone who most likely is a control freak. Let's take this for what it is. As Elle Girl, and Diedre stated he told his wife he wanted a separation filed for divorce,and is angry she slept with her ex-bf while he was doing likewise. Really? You seem to want everything your way, and to hell with what your wife thinks. I am not a fan of divorce, but I think you guys would be better off apart for eternity. She deserves better.


----------



## turnera

Satya said:


> She was hurt and upset clearly.


And likely suffering a major blow to her self esteem for being DUMPED, so she turned to a man she knew once wanted her, and he told her she was worth loving, something she needed to hear, so her feelings for him grew.


----------



## Blondilocks

So, the ex-gf you kept in contact with throughout your marriage didn't want you back huh?

The insecurity, indignation and humiliation you're feeling now is a sample of what your wife endured throughout your marriage. Your wife would be a fool to take you back.


----------



## arbitrator

marc85 said:


> My wife and I separated in October 2016, and we have been reconciling for the last 3 weeks. We are not living together at this point. We will consider it further down the line. I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating.
> 
> Long story short (because the rest sure as **** won’t be), my wife left her phone at my apartment. When she let me know she had lost it I checked my apartment, found it, and looked through it. Out of sheer curiosity I looked through it, no sense in lying and saying I stumbled upon them while dialing 911 because a cat was stuck in a tree.
> 
> I found a very long text conversation with her ex-boyfriend from high school (she’s 26 now, so 8 years ago give or take) I don’t know anything about that relationship because my wife has always refused to talk about it. Other relationships, no problem but that one she has always guarded. All she has ever said was that he was very important/special to her.
> 
> The conversation started February and ended a week ago. As far as I can tell, my wife initiated the reconnection. One of our biggest arguments before we separated was ex-GF/BF’s. She absolutely hated that I had any contact with an ex-girlfriend from 15 years ago. I disagreed that ex’s cannot be friends. She had no contact with any of her ex’s, because she was under the impression feelings would reemerge OR that there was simply no reason to contact them. I say this because, based on what I read her feelings for him have definitely reemerged.
> 
> They have been driving 8 hours (each way) to see each other for short periods of time, seems like only when I had our kids. So I could go with a pro that at least my kids have not been around the douchenozzle, or con and that I was caring for our kids so she could go **** her lover. Based on the texts they were clearly physically intimate. My wife isn’t the kind of person to have casual sex, she has sexual abuse in her past and has restricted sex to those she really cares about. The big I love you was exchanged many times from both parties. Lots of “I wish I never lost you”, “You were the one that got away”, “I have always loved you”. They had plans about moving closer to each other or moving in together. My wife told him that he was the most important person in her life, the best relationship she had ever had, the only person she has been in love with. That I was second best and could never measure up. That she wished HE fathered her kids instead of me. They texted basically all day, every day with gaps for when they were together. She has a million pictures of herself and him on her phone. I had never known what he looked like but it doesn’t take a genius to put it together. He has a stupid name, so that part was easy to figure out. The insecure part of me acknowledges that he is more attractive and much fitter. She never wanted to take pictures of us, and she looked truly happy in those pictures she took with him.
> 
> The only positive I can find in the situation is that they had stopped communication. At least, it appears that way. But she kept the conversation and the 10 million pictures. This is their last conversation:
> 
> “My husband and I are going to try and get back together. I have to try… I’ll miss you but I have to try.” - wife
> 
> “He’s not good enough for you. You deserve better and I don’t want to be the one who told you I told you so.” - ex
> 
> “I have to give it one final try. I need to know for myself and our kids that I tried the best I could.”  - wife
> 
> “I can’t wait forever. You know that you should be with me.” -ex
> 
> “I know, and I don’t expect you to. Seeing you with someone else again would be so painful. I may regret my choice later, but for right now this is what I have to do. I can’t talk to you anymore, it will hurt too much.” - wife
> 
> “I love you. You know that.” - ex
> 
> “I’m always going to love you.” -wife
> 
> Then he called her and there hasn’t been another call or text since.
> 
> Am I wrong to think this should be an automatic deal breaker? No, she did not cheat on me and I’m the one the initiated the separation - she was free to do what she wanted - but this is a bit far. Can she ever be trusted? Not only with cheating (with him) but trust that she genuinely wants to reconcile and is happy with ME? Am I an idiot if I tell her to go F herself? A large part of me is insanely pissed off and wants to kill the guy for getting involved with and ****ing my wife. For quite a while I had totally stopped calling her my wife reading those texts brought up a lot of jealousy that cemented the fact that she's (legally) _my_ wife.


*Somewhat late to the rodeo, but I think that you had better make damned good and sure that she's not actively sporting a "burner phone!" 

If that is truly the case, that would account for her sudden "breakage in communication" with him, greatly out of fear that since you found her "lost" cell phone before, then she fears that that event might just happen again if it ever becomes lost!

Sounds a whole lot like you might be little more than her "Plan B!"*


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Blondilocks said:


> So, the ex-gf you kept in contact with throughout your marriage didn't want you back huh?
> 
> The insecurity, indignation and humiliation you're feeling now is a sample of what your wife endured throughout your marriage. Your wife would be a fool to take you back.


^ this. His ego was hurt. She did nothing wrong and OP seems to only wants her back because he couldn't find anyone better. She's the plan B.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Yep, he may be Plan B. After he admitted ALL of his actions, why should she trust him? 

Let's be real he wanted to play around. Who separates with a wife and says:


> The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating.





> (she wanted to get back together for the first few months, prior to contact with her ex started; I assumed she got over it and dropped it)





> We separated because we were fighting non-stop, had nothing in common and wanted different things in life.





> Yes, the separation was my choice. Yes, turning her down was my choice.





> When I left my wife a major reason was because I felt we were not compatible and I wanted someone who I was more similar to. My wife and I have very few common interests, simple things such as music, tv and movies, to hobbies, preferences, food tastes and wants in life. Trying to say what we do have in common would be tough. I thought I wanted to be with a woman who I was more similar to.


then comes here on a semantic based trip, "I screwed all these women but didn't say I love you duh apples and oranges," about how wrong his wife is for being with her Ex and typing that she still loves him? 

A narcissist.

Especially, when he talks about her abuse background and she doesn't have casual sex. I'm not sure OP is in a position to call anyone an idiot.

What I noticed is you constantly call her an idiot, but you asked for the separation because you were incompatible and then realized "I missed my family." You made her Plan B to get some strange and she made you Plan B because she doesn't trust you. Neither is right, but I understand her Plan B more than yours. 

If you need to make her the villain, with the support of others, do so. Be mad, do the mental gymnastics necessary to make her wrong and finish the divorce. Just realize those words will NEVER go away. EVER. She is reconciling for the kids and not for you. You have the words right there in your face.

Yes, you are Plan B. Your kids happiness is her plan A.


----------



## reservedQC

I was in your shoes. My husband and I separated in early 2013. He moved to another state, I stayed in our home. We had a separation agreement that I had drawn up, that he never signed. 

When he wanted to come home, I let him though in hindsight I should have insisted on him staying with his parents while we continued MC. I asked him if he was with anyone else. He lied. I found out about 1.5 years later, after kid #1 that he was with a woman during the separation and that it was "just sex." Then about 2 years ago, realized that she was an FB friend and when I confronted him, he unfriended her. Had I known that he was with someone else, my decision to agree to reconciliation might have been different. Possibly. I'm not 100 percent sure. But I'd like to have had that option because I was pregnant and he didn't want to tell me what he did. 

However, my husband also communicated with his ex-girlfriend of many years. He still spoke to her, and even though I asked him to stop, he wouldn't. I also knew that those conversations often reminisced about the past, some flirting, and what they did and occasionally about me (*usually to complain about me). 

So stop communicating with your ex-girlfriends. Unfriend them. Walk away. No texting. No random notes. Nothing. It's just added stress that's really unnecessary in a marriage. Secondly, if she does lie about it, then you will have issues. Take it from me. But if it upsets you that she slept with someone else, hey you initiated the separation. Unless you agreed on "no sleeping with other people" you can either get over it or walk away. 

My rule of thumb has been no communication with exes. Period.


----------



## Sparta

I didn't read every other response but you're all attacking him. Making him the bad guy. He's made it clear that he's not mad that she went out and got laid. He gets it he did too. What he's upset with is what she said in the text about him being a better man about her wishing the OM was the father of his kids wow..!!! So yes it's very understandable why he's worried and skeptical about her true intentions. Then discovering she'll change the passcode to her cell phone that's not only a red flag that sound the alarm. OP I completely understand what you're worried about. Honestly if I read that I don't know if I could take her back. That's just too much for me, I'd tell her to kick rocks.


----------



## doobie

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> You've chosen the wrong default setting. They were separated, but still married. Unless they openly and unambiguously agreed to conditions that expressly allowed for extramarital contact, this was definitely outside the marriage, tenuous though it may have been.


I don't agree here at all - the OP *rejected *his wife and they separated. The fact that they are still married doesn't mean that they were in any sort of relationship other than one on paper. I left my XH two years ago and we're not divorced for several reasons. The main reason being that I paid for just about everything during the marriage so think it's only fair that he should pay for the divorce. Another reason is that we're living overseas and in order for a divorce to be granted after a two year separation, one of us has to have lived in our home-country for two years prior to the divorce - a condition neither of us is able to fulfill right now. If I were to start divorce proceedings, I know that my H wouldn't sign the papers so the costs of serving papers on him would be astronomical. It doesn't matter to me whether the divorce has gone through or not - our marriage is over and when I do date guys, I'm doing nothing wrong.

The OP's wife is a lady who was rejected by him and has had to deal with that rejection. If she found some solace in a relationship with one of her ex-boyfriends, then more power to her - she was taking her happiness where she could find it. The OP should never have read the phone messages, that's a gross violation of her privacy and it's none of his business as they were separated at the time. IMO, the OP should either forget the whole issue and move on from here or confess to his wife that he snooped on her phone and knows. The fact that she's had a relationship in the meantime is not his business and shouldn't affect their future together. She's considering a reconciliation which means that she would obviously prefer to stay within the marriage and bring up the children together as a united family - what more can the OP ask for after treating her so shabbily?


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

doobie said:


> I don't agree here at all - the OP *rejected *his wife and they separated. The fact that they are still married doesn't mean that they were in any sort of relationship other than one on paper. I left my XH two years ago and we're not divorced for several reasons. The main reason being that I paid for just about everything during the marriage so think it's only fair that he should pay for the divorce. Another reason is that we're living overseas and in order for a divorce to be granted after a two year separation, one of us has to have lived in our home-country for two years prior to the divorce - a condition neither of us is able to fulfill right now. If I were to start divorce proceedings, I know that my H wouldn't sign the papers so the costs of serving papers on him would be astronomical. It doesn't matter to me whether the divorce has gone through or not - our marriage is over and when I do date guys, I'm doing nothing wrong.
> 
> The OP's wife is a lady who was rejected by him and has had to deal with that rejection. If she found some solace in a relationship with one of her ex-boyfriends, then more power to her - she was taking her happiness where she could find it. The OP should never have read the phone messages, that's a gross violation of her privacy and it's none of his business as they were separated at the time. IMO, the OP should either forget the whole issue and move on from here or confess to his wife that he snooped on her phone and knows. The fact that she's had a relationship in the meantime is not his business and shouldn't affect their future together. She's considering a reconciliation which means that she would obviously prefer to stay within the marriage and bring up the children together as a united family - what more can the OP ask for after treating her so shabbily?


Saying we need to separate is not the same thing as saying we need to divorce. If they had agreed that the separation meant being able to see others, then fine. If they didn't then its not fine. Simple as that. Hell, my wife rejects me on a regular basis and I don't use that as an excuse to find solace in the arms of another woman. 

I don't consider my wife looking at my phone to be an invasion of privacy...because we're married. Whether or not the marriage is strong at the moment is irrelevant--we're married. Period. 

If she truly would "prefer to stay within the marriage," then she would have stayed within the marriage. That's pretty basic.


Please don't let any of the above mislead you into thinking that the OP didn't behave badly, or that he isn't reaping what he has sown. I have little sympathy for him either.


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## ButtPunch

Sparta said:


> I didn't read every other response but you're all attacking him. Making him the bad guy. He's made it clear that he's not mad that she went out and got laid. He gets it he did too. What he's upset with is what she said in the text about him being a better man about her wishing the OM was the father of his kids wow..!!! So yes it's very understandable why he's worried and skeptical about her true intentions. Then discovering she'll change the passcode to her cell phone that's not only a red flag that sound the alarm. OP I completely understand what you're worried about. Honestly if I read that I don't know if I could take her back. That's just too much for me, I'd tell her to kick rocks.


I see it this way as well


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## Bibi1031

So @marc85, how are things going?


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## SunCMars

Sparta said:


> I didn't read every other response but you're all attacking him. Making him the bad guy. He's made it clear that he's not mad that she went out and got laid. He gets it he did too. What he's upset with is what she said in the text about him being a better man about her wishing the OM was the father of his kids wow..!!! So yes it's very understandable why he's worried and skeptical about her true intentions. Then discovering she'll change the passcode to her cell phone that's not only a red flag that sound the alarm. OP I completely understand what you're worried about. Honestly if I read that I don't know if I could take her back. That's just too much for me, *I'd tell her to kick rocks.*


I like your take..I do.

I would tell him to kick himself.

She loved him dearly until she did not.

Prior to, he owned her body and her soul.

He threw away her body, yes he did.

And with it went her soul, her soles, and her promise to him and to the Almighty.

That she would love him, cherish him, forever, til Death do Part.

He forgot about that tie, that bond. He cut it...it unraveled.

It, that bond, re-looped about the EX BF.

That bond was sacred, and could only retie with one as worthy.

And that is not OP.

Yet she, this flower, tries in vain to grow in his plot. The Fool?

Fool? Which....or both?

Your' call........I cry.......for the Lady, I do.


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## Sparta

Yes would say your right as I read more... thank you 
But him trying to reconcile with her after seeing what is on her cell phone no way in hell that I do it.


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## SunCMars

Marc85..

If you read my much earlier post you might remember that I offed up that she just placated her BF. She told him what he needed/wanted to hear.
She loves him, he is the best. She wishes she had his babies. I admit, some of that might be true. Especially reading what OP had to say.

Anyway, prior to getting the boot, she was a monogamous lady. A loyal wife.
She knows what she did with her EXBF was not proper. She was not officially divorced. She committed adultery. In the back of her mind, she still wanted to R with her husband. 

She had to make this as right as she could. For herself, and the kind BF. She expressed her love and devotion to the EXBF.
Had she simply just up and left this caring man, that would have left the impression on him, the BF, that she used him. She misled him. 

That said, "I am absolutely postitve that she had feelings for this guy. She is THAT sort of women". 

Undying love for him?

Uh, no. She dumped him [very kindly] for you...an immature butterfly husband. 

And she may go back to that EXBF, because you, Marc85 ain't thinking correct. IMO.


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## doobie

"I have a 1 year lease on an apartment, so we will likely remain in separate homes for at least a couple more months. The separation was my idea (more details can be provided if necessary) but had nothing to do with lying or cheating."

The guy has admitted that the separation was his idea and that they're still living separately. My sister experienced something similar after the birth of her first child. Her husband began an affair and when she found out about it, he sent her and their baby (overseas) to live with my mother while he decided which woman he wanted. During their separation, my sister inherited a small nest egg and, surprise, surprise, her husband chose her and used my sister's money to buy a small piece of land on which to create the smallholding he'd always wanted. 

In my mind, if you're separated, the relationship is not ongoing at that point and both parties are free to do what they want with others.


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## Herschel

aine said:


> You still do not get it. You dumped her, you wanted to move on, so she looked for comfort with someone else. Women are not the same as men. You just wanted sex, she wanted love. If you cannot handle that after all she has done, let you dump her, attempt to divorce her, then dump him as soon as you wanted her back, you are really focusing on the wrong thing imo. If you cannot handle it then just let her down one more time and move along.


Lol to men just wanting sex and women wanting love.


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## ConanHub

I would show her the door.

But I wouldn't have separated either.

All sorts of stupid s**t happens when you separate.

If you decide to make a go of it, counseling would be a must.

Best wishes.


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## ConanHub

I will say that her commitment, regardless of the reasons, to reconciliation seems solid.

She cut off contact with her boyfriend.

I think you should both lay all your cards on the table.

Can't even consider building on a foundation until you know what it is and what needs worked on.


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## V-Vendatta

So overall, are you still together with your wife


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