# When is it my turn?



## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Okay, this may not be the worst of marriage problems, but it's ongoing and causing a rift. Apologies in advance for the length.

My dh and I married 11 years ago. We knew about each other's past relationships because we shared some mutual friends (one was his ex-fiancé) and we also discussed them briefly. In previous relationships, dh was very romantic - wrote beautiful love songs for 2 girlfriends, proposed to the ex-fiancé in a wonderful way (think movie-quality proposal), was generous with affection and compliments, etc. After hearing this, I thought "Score! I've caught a great guy."

11 years later and I'm still waiting to receive even one romantic gesture. I've gotten zip, zilch, nada. Never been told he thinks I'm pretty, no love song, no love notes, nothing on the same romantic level as his past relationships. Sure, I've gotten flowers on rare occasion, but I'm a show-me girl, not a give-me girl. Gifts don't cut it in my book because anyone can go out and buy something. He knows this. Over the years, I've let him know that I would really appreciate some romance and he responds by acting like I'm requesting the moon of him. 

Most recently, I was truly embarrassed because we were with a group of married friends discussing how each of us got engaged. I couldn't say anything really, because dh's proposal to me was an EXACT duplication of his best friend's proposal to his wife. (His best friend & his wife were also at this gathering.) It was a romantic gesture when his friend did it because it was special and personal to his girl - a sweet story recounted several times amongst our group. My proposal was just a simple, non-personalized, copy-cat version. Everyone ooh's and aah's at his friends' story and I have nothing special to share. His proposal to his ex was special and personal to her, but I got a knock-off of a friend's?!

Around our anniversary, we finally got a night alone to celebrate and dh offers to have friends come along to dinner with us after I had spent time researching & reserving a table at the perfect restaurant for just us. My anniversary gift: zip, zilch, nada. Again embarrassed because I had friends asking how the big anniversary went, what we did for each other, etc. What am I to say? 

We got into a major argument recently and I thought we were settled after we both expressed our needs in the relationship. I did as he said, made him feel extra wanted, met his needs. We planned to have date nights. On the very first date night, he blew me off to have dinner with his parents and got mad that I didn't want to join them. Normally I would, but not on date night. Again, I expressed my need for romance and he bought me a potted plant. Let that sink in a minute.....a potted plant! Now we're fighting again, not talking, and he said he's hurt/angry/shocked because he really tried and I don't appreciate his effort. "Tried", "effort", really?! 

I know he has romantic tendencies. He sings along to love songs on the radio and I've seen him watching videos of romantic gestures people have posted online. I have first-hand accounts of him being a really romantic guy with past women. But his wife gets none of this, ever. He'll jump through hoops to do ANYTHING for friends or family, but I have to practically beg him to even change a light bulb that I can't reach. So, what gives?

I'm afraid if I tell him an example of what I want, he'll just copy the exact thing (like the proposal) without one variation or special touch. Then, it's still not really special, is it?


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

What kind of potted plant?
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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I totally understand the wanting your man to put effort into being romantic.... mine still needs to lol but he had got me a potted plant as well. It was a desert rose. His reasoning was this...


"I could have bought you a dozen roses... a nice vase to put them in... some chocolates... but I wanted you to have something that was beautiful, hardy, and everlasting... like our relationship."

So perhaps this potted plant was meant to be presented in that manner?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

Me thinks there's a lot deeper issues on both sides than "He's not romantic with me and when he is, he only copies someone else".

I'm not going to say either of you is right (which many times people come on here for validation "See I'm right") because if you're both struggling like this, there is no right or wrong, this isn't a court of law and your husband didn't break Code 257 in the Wife Treatment section.

The reality is you feel unloved because he doesn't show you romance. I would guess that HE doesn't feel loved because the times where he has perceived himself trying were met with a less than stellar reaction, which turns into..."so why bother". 

Don't take this wrong, I'm SURE your husband isn't being as romantic as he could be, but I would also guess he's not being as romantic as he WANTS TO BE either. I would definitely suggest counseling because I'd bet that your issues are more about bad perceptions than actually lacking the want and love.


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

It was a half-wilted thing with small red blossoms on top. From the bargain bin at a local store - marked down twice. I go to that store frequently. I know for a fact that right next to those exact plants are some beautiful, well-kept bouquets only $2 more. 

There was no explanation given for that particular plant, just a smug "look, ain't I great" look on his face.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Don't take this the wrong way but... have you done anything romantic for him? Are you two having some financial issues? Has the potted plant improved at all under your care?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Dad&Hubby said:


> Me thinks there's a lot deeper issues on both sides than "He's not romantic with me and when he is, he only copies someone else"....


Thanks. I appreciate your insight. He's not even talking to me now-doubt he's going to go for counseling.

I have given appreciation for things in the past. He even said it himself during this past argument - "You used to be so thankful and sweet every time I brought you flowers, and now all of a sudden you're complaining. I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!"

He was shocked, horrified, I tell you, that a half-dead plant was not my idea of a romantic gesture.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Wow :/ and he isn't listening to how it makes you feel?
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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Don't take this the wrong way but... have you done anything romantic for him? Are you two having some financial issues? Has the potted plant improved at all under your care?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


No financial issues. We're doing quite well, actually. So I don't get the mark-down plant that simply was pathetic-looking? Poor plant is hanging on by a thread. Heck, he didn't have to spend any money. A love letter is FREE and much preferred. After 11 years of explaining this, it's still considered taboo for me to mention such nonsense. Wasn't nonsense for the other women, though.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

I really don't get that eathier....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Gaia said:


> Wow :/ and he isn't listening to how it makes you feel?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Sorry, didn't mean to ignore your other question. I thought I was being romantic by making the special anniversary reservations and going beyond in meeting his needs as he stated.

Nope, he's not listening. Just angry that I am not grateful enough for him NOT meeting my needs.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Perhaps you two could do the five languages of love quiz, get the book, and get his needs/ her needs. Then hopefully counseling at some point....
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks, Gaia. 

I don't even know how to start talking to him again. Usually, we have to start talking because something comes up about the kids, house, car, whatever non-related. That seems to indicate to him that I've given in and that he's okay to continue ignoring my needs. This time I just don't feel like "giving in" again. I know, I'm being hard-headed.


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## Goldmember357 (Jan 31, 2012)

You can only change people so much perhaps you do not have the consummate love. Google triangular theory of love

marriage counseling? 

good luck


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

HEY ALL YOU MEN OUT THERE-
Give me some insight as to why romance was so freely and unsolicited with anyone but me. Quite frankly, some of the girls treated him horribly and he still pined after them. Not all were bad, but some were. Even so, it was romance, romance all the time.

I have been grateful for the few little things. I even thanked and kissed him for the half-dead plant at the time. Didn't complain or show dissatisfaction for that even until he started picking a fight over small household stuff. Still haven't complained about the broken date night. Who knows what reaction that would have received if he's so angry over a plant. No pining after me, no seeking to rectify with me, no wooing me-as usual, nothing.

And, how do we get past this without me "giving in" again? Am I doomed to a deadpan marriage, while I listen to him croon love songs in the other room? It's like he's not even listening to what he's actually hearing/singing. Gosh, just connect the dots, buddy.


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

OK, I know this is not what you want to hear. Just trying to look at things from a more humorous angle. 

My co-worker has been separated from her h for more than a yr. Couple days ago she dumped a vase of beautiful flowers (roses and pink lilies) on my desk. I was like "not my B-day, not any day, and where the 3%^& did this thing come from", she said she just got it delivered. So I took up the card which read "to XXX at XXXXX". No name. She said she knew it was from her h because it was their anniversary. She then rolled her eyes and said he had heard so many times from her that she did not like fresh-cut flowers because it's depressing to watch them die. Yet he obviously never listened. 

"Well don't dump it on my desk. I hate bouquets too. They will die on me". 

We both wanted potted plants. Actually, in my case I would prefer a baking dish or (in my next life) a copper pot. 

Eventually the flowers went to another co-worker. 

BTW, I think both of us bouquet-haters are still reasonably romantic women. 

And if it makes you feel any better, 20 year I have never received any love note, letter, except one. When I went for an ovum extraction and failed, I was severely depressed and my h sent me some FRESH flowers (he does not listen either). There was a card that said "I love you". I still have that card tucked in somewhere. 

It would be tremendous if you can nourish that poor plant back to health.


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## Gaia (Apr 27, 2012)

Lol at least your card says "I love you" all mine says is... "pick a number from 1-10" open it and it says...... "wrong answer... now get naked!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jennifer1986 (Feb 4, 2012)

Gaia said:


> all mine says is... "pick a number from 1-10" open it and it says...... "wrong answer... now get naked!"
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol:That's actually creative. Much better than the standard "let's f4#^ now" I get.

Oh, BTW, for OP, your h seems to feel too secure and he gets offended if his security is threatened (by your asking for romantic gestures, complaining, etc). This is another form of "love" (yeah I know....). I think it was the Love Busters, or it can be "How to improve your marriage without talking" where they talk about this "security" in detail. I'v been reading several books and getting them confused.  Try to do some reading if you have time. 

another note...if you haven't seen Hope Springs...many of Tommy Lee Jone's lines echo this kind of "h feeling too secure" syndrome. I liked it when he screamed "we don't have a true marriage? you call 31 yrs of marriage not a true marriage?" I bought tickets for Expendables but we ended up seeing it (we sneaked in to take a peek but finished the whole thing, it was amazing my h sat thru a comedy/drama). My h understood a little better after the movie.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Pathological nice guy comes to mind.

Is he the type of person who can't say no to friends and family? Overly helpful and well liked by outside people.

Does he even change aspects of his behavior to better blend to different social environments?

Does apparently everyone think he's a great guy except you?

Does he have a dysfunctional relationship to his mother and father?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

renard noir said:


> HEY ALL YOU MEN OUT THERE-
> Give me some insight as to why romance was so freely and unsolicited with anyone but me. Quite frankly, some of the girls treated him horribly and he still pined after them. Not all were bad, but some were. Even so, it was romance, romance all the time.
> 
> I have been grateful for the few little things. I even thanked and kissed him for the half-dead plant at the time. Didn't complain or show dissatisfaction for that even until he started picking a fight over small household stuff. Still haven't complained about the broken date night. Who knows what reaction that would have received if he's so angry over a plant. No pining after me, no seeking to rectify with me, no wooing me-as usual, nothing.
> ...



Men are not "romantic" as a trait.
Men do what it takes to win a woman. He was trying to win a girl, and did romantic things for her. He did not need to do those things with you, as evidenced by the fact that you married him. Most men, and women actually, more or less stop the woo-ing once they get married. Men figure, she married me, I don't have to "do all that stuff" any more.

Now, all you can do as a wife is meet his emotional needs in the marriage. Typically a man's emotional need is sexual fulfillment and admiration. But that's not always true. But basically in a marriage you too need to keep "wooing" your man. And what is important to him is not the same as what is important to you. Once he is getting his emotional needs met, and he feels loved, special and happy, that's when you explain to him what it will take for you to feel loved, special and happy in your marriage.

The main mistakes people make in their marriage is to stop trying to make the person feel loved, and the second major mistake is when you fixate on what the OTHER PERSON needs to do, rather than what You need to do first.


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## HusbandX (Jul 13, 2012)

renard noir said:


> HEY ALL YOU MEN OUT THERE-
> Give me some insight as to why romance was so freely and unsolicited with anyone but me. Quite frankly, some of the girls treated him horribly and he still pined after them. Not all were bad, but some were. Even so, it was romance, romance all the time.


How hard do you think he would fight for you if he thought you were going to leave him or having an affair? As already mentioned here, it sounds like he's coasting in his comfort zone with you. 

Perhaps the romance previously was more solicited than you realise? Perhaps he rewarded those who treated him "horribly" with romance and affection in an effort not to lose them.


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

FreedomCorp - You nailed it. Everyone on the outside thinks he's just a swell guy. He will bend over backwards to help anyone but me, and he's a totally fun, outgoing, humorous, guy around other people. At home, bossy and selfish.

Hicks - That is exactly what his request was for his needs to be met, more sexual attention. He got so much "wooing" and lingerie and special touches around the house, that he had to take a break for a couple of days due to being totally physically worn out. He was satisfied and happy, even bragging to a friend. 

Problem is he is fine getting all the attention, but doesn't want to reciprocate when it's his turn to meet my needs. Or at best expects me to fall all over him for romantic pittance. What do you do with that? Serious question, please don't take it as snark.

Thank you both for your replies.


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## RDL (Feb 10, 2012)

Right,

In that case the situation is relatively complex. You need to read the material Robert Glover - No More Mr Nice Guy for an insight into your situation. 

If you find that he exhibits a good amount of the behavior described in the book the issues with him run deep and the path to recovery is specific.

Come back with feedback after reading the book.


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks, HusbandX. Honestly, I don't think he'd put much of a fight up at all. I've gone out on a handful of pretty wild girls nights out when feeling neglected - well, wild for a married mom - ha. No reaction. 

I've thought about trying to make him see what he's missing, but I don't know how to do it without suffering a backlash of "fine, then go". It seems to be his MO to be completely indifferent. I'm sure inside he'd not be happy, but his pride wouldn't dare let him show me that he cares at all. He'd rather dig his heels in, even if it proves to be a detriment to or downfall of the marriage. Witness what he's doing now - refusing to talk to me or meet my needs because I didn't follow his rules of being the grateful, adoring wife for his scraps while he got an abundance of attention. He cannot stand to have me be right. If I say the sky is blue and he's in one of those moods, he'll argue that it is green until he runs out of breath.

If you have some suggestions on how to get him to want to fight for me/us, I'm all ears. Maybe I'm not doing it right.


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## HusbandX (Jul 13, 2012)

renard noir said:


> Thanks, HusbandX. Honestly, I don't think he'd put much of a fight up at all. I've gone out on a handful of pretty wild girls nights out when feeling neglected - well, wild for a married mom - ha. No reaction.
> 
> I've thought about trying to make him see what he's missing, but I don't know how to do it without suffering a backlash of "fine, then go". It seems to be his MO to be completely indifferent. I'm sure inside he'd not be happy, but his pride wouldn't dare let him show me that he cares at all. He'd rather dig his heels in, even if it proves to be a detriment to or downfall of the marriage. Witness what he's doing now - refusing to talk to me or meet my needs because I didn't follow his rules of being the grateful, adoring wife for his scraps while he got an abundance of attention. He cannot stand to have me be right. If I say the sky is blue and he's in one of those moods, he'll argue that it is green until he runs out of breath.
> 
> If you have some suggestions on how to get him to want to fight for me/us, I'm all ears. Maybe I'm not doing it right.


Sorry no suggestions, sounds to me like his heart really isn't in it. Hopefully others have more of an insight than I can offer. Good luck!


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## renard noir (Aug 27, 2012)

So, I found an article that spells out exactly what a woman wants romantically. It states things so much more eloquently than I could explain to my husband myself. 

Examples-
1. Don't just buy her flowers. Anyone can do that. Buy her favorite flowers and then surprise her by whisking her away to a nice dinner. Make a grand gesture that is devoted solely to her.
2. Pay attention and show that you care. Romance is not empty gestures.
3. Make her feel beautiful. Give her compliments. She will appreciate it and give you rewards in return.
...and it goes on.

Should I print this out and leave it for him to read, or will this just further escalate the problems?


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