# Sex isn't all about numbers?



## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

I've fallen into this trap over the years, comparing how much we have sex against the norm or most other couples & it doesn't take much figuring to know we are very low. Our average is 18-20 times a year, some multiple months, some zero months, it's usually up to how I'm feeling, she is good with or without.
This year I decided to take others advice and initiate as much as I can, using the philosophy "the more you do it, the more she'll want to". We're already at 6 times, 3 each month, but it hasn't changed any of the dynamic like I thought it would. It is starting to not matter to me again because even though I've become quite resilient over the years with our relationship, sex still messes with my heart. Our relationship tends the stay the same whether sex is there or not. I'm finally at a place of contentment, so I have to be careful to not backslide again.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

BurningHeart said:


> I've fallen into this trap over the years, comparing how much we have sex against the norm or most other couples & it doesn't take much figuring to know we are very low. Our average is 18-20 times a year, some multiple months, some zero months, it's usually up to how I'm feeling, she is good with or without.
> This year I decided to take others advice and initiate as much as I can, using the philosophy "the more you do it, the more she'll want to". We're already at 6 times, 3 each month, but it hasn't changed any of the dynamic like I thought it would. It is starting to not matter to me again because even though I've become quite resilient over the years with our relationship, sex still messes with my heart. Our relationship tends the stay the same whether sex is there or not. I'm finally at a place of contentment, so I have to be careful to not backslide again.


To me, the most important aspect is quality. IMO frequency is a false indicator of a good sex life. I hate to say this, but I'll say it anyway. If I had to choose between GREAT, AWESOME sex once a year or once a week of sperm donor starfish sex, I would pick once a year. That's how much I value quality.
In fact, sometimes if it's been more than 4,5 or 6 days and things are not quite optimum for whatever reason, I'll try for another day, even though it's hard for me.
Having said this, I pray I never have to wait a year for great sex


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

What aren't you satisfied with?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

ConanHub said:


> What aren't you satisfied with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Who, me?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

BurningHeart said:


> ....Our average is 18-20 times a year... it's usually up to how I'm feeling, she is good with or without.
> 
> ...This year I decided to take others advice and initiate as much as I can...We're already at 6 times, 3 each month, but it hasn't changed any of the dynamic like I thought it would.
> 
> ....Our relationship tends the stay the same whether sex is there or not. I'm finally at a place of contentment, so I have to be careful to not backslide again.


My heart goes out to you. As someone closer to 70 than 60, I would say that life is short, enjoy sex with your wife while the two of you can. I know enough friends who are struggling with all kinds of medical problems that create barriers to intimacy. Don't give up on your wife and especially don't give up on your happiness.

OK, there was a time in my marriage when 18-20 times a year would have been an answer to my prayers. After marriage counseling and sex therapy with my wife, we are now more like 80 to 98 times a year. Sex at least once a week and most weeks twice a week. Even then sickness, travel jet-lag and other things really get in the way.

One of the hardest things for me is that my wife truly just doesn't care that much about sex, unless she is actively involved in sex. She orgasms and likes to feel close to me, but if she had her choice, sex would be 1 to 3 times a month. 

She understands from work with the sex therapist that her preferred level of sex will result in my divorcing her. She has told me that she really wants to remain married to me and so she will push herself to find time to have sex with me. What amazes me is that even when she pushes herself to have sex, after we start, she gets arroused, often orgasms, and enjoys it. 

I find it hard to understand a woman who will say, don't touch me there as if you do, I'll want to have sex with you. I mean isn't that the idea? Obviously it is not for her. 

I will say that since we have been having sex more, my wife finds it easier to become arroused and to orgasm. I feel closer to her. She likes that I feel closer to her and she feels we have a stronger marriage than before.

Good luck to you. Don't give up. Don't become indifferent with regards to sex and your marriage. Intimacy along with Sex is the glue that binds two people in marriage together. Giving up, is really emotionally checking out of a marriage.

P.S. As to quality. Sex releases certain hormones that promote bonding. Anything that releases those hormones and creates bonding, improves the marriage, in my book.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

To a certain extent, quantity vs quality is a false dichotomy. It's not an either/or proposition. I never get starfish sex, but our sex quality varies from each encounter. Sunday night we had outstanding sex from a quality standpoint. Tomorrow will probably be good - but not great. Friday may be another good day, but it may be great. Once the weekend hits, who knows? We range from 14 - 20 times in a month.

The quality of our sex life is largely determined by her cycle. Days 1 - 4 (sometimes 5) is zero sex.
Days 6 - 10 varies from good to great
Days 12 - 15 will be good to great sex with a one time OUTSTANDING sex experience on most cycles.
Days 16 - 23 will be maybe some great and then drop down to good sex
Days 24 - 28 are a grab bag, with most encounters being "this is all about you" but will occasionally be great or OUTSTANDING.

My scale of sex ranges from:

"This is for you" - she does her best to be active, but she doesn't get anywhere from it. It feels good to her, but zero chance she climbs the hill to an orgasm
Good - We enjoy ourelves but we're taking it easy, nothing back breaking - it's good. Normally foreplay is OK, generally of decent length but little more than kissing and caressing. Roving hands from both at least while kissing.
Great - We're both motivated, in to it, great foreplay (sometimes little foreplay because she wants it NOW) and active sex with the roving hands, soft moans, gyrations, etc. Firm to vigorous thrusting
OUTSTANDING - Pure, unadulterated lustful "I think I'm going to consume you" type sex. More vigorous and active than great.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

UMP said:


> Who, me?


Nope! OP. &#55357;&#56833;
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> What aren't you satisfied with?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is a long list. I guess the kind of fairy tale marriage I had always had in my head, that also fell way short the first time around with my ex, but in the beginning we were very close.
I think the whole stepfamily conflicts took their toll, mostly on me and my wife showed often that it was her and her daughter always in front of "us". Now with a 5 year old granddaughter, the ranking continues with "us" at the bottom, getting only what is left over. I've always bought into the whole "2 become 1" idea of a marriage, in which spouses grew to need each other and not just enjoy having them around, I've learned that isn't the case with us. She does love me and treats me very well, just a little short of a husband, more than a friend, but somewhere in between.
After a solid 2 years of trying absolutely everything, reading, counseling, marriage retreats, letters, talks, withdrawing, 30 day sex challenge etc,. I've come to the conclusion that this is how it is going to stay, like it or hate it, stay or leave.
I've chosen to stay, because I would lose a lot more leaving vs. staying. I've found a place of contentment, that took awhile to reach, so I do okay now. With our marriage being off kilter, sex has always messed with my heart, thinking things were changing, only to see that they weren't. She is LD and can take it or leave it, but she does put in some effort for me, but only the bare minimum. She rarely refuses, but it rarely rates above a 4 out of 10 scaled rating.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

```
To a certain extent, quantity vs quality is a false dichotomy. It's not an either/or proposition.
```
I also think that it should not be a quality v's quantity thing, if it is then there is something unbalanced going on. Quality and quantity are both obtainable. Mind you my past marriage was missing both 

We are very much a quality *and * quantity couple. 10 - 15 times a week and most of it is high quality. But even the times that could be rated as just good are wonderful, I treasure our sex life immensely.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

> This year I decided to take others advice and initiate as much as I can, using the philosophy "the more you do it, the more she'll want to". We're already at 6 times, 3 each month, but it hasn't changed any of the dynamic like I thought it would.


How did you think the dynamic would change? Did you think that, a woman who was fine with or without sex, would suddenly want to initiate because you're having sex more often than she really wanted anyway? Or did you mean something else?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

norajane said:


> How did you think the dynamic would change? Did you think that, a woman who was fine with or without sex, would suddenly want to initiate because you're having sex more often than she really wanted anyway? Or did you mean something else?


Not the sex part, the nucleus of the marriage, the closeness, eagerness to have quality time together etc. My top two love languages are physical touch & quality time. She is affectionate with me, but our quality time has been 0 for years. If we could be a close knit couple and I would have to forgo sex, it would be a no brainer for me. I've gotten very good at handling long dry spells and do fine..


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> Not the sex part, the nucleus of the marriage, the closeness, eagerness to have quality time together etc. My top two love languages are physical touch & quality time. She is affectionate with me, but our quality time has been 0 for years. If we could be a close knit couple and I would have to forgo sex, it would be a no brainer for me. I've gotten very good at handling long dry spells and do fine..


When was the last time you were getting the quality time you needed? Was it you or she or both who allowed that drop off? 

Are you still trying to suggest or schedule quality time together?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

norajane said:


> When was the last time you were getting the quality time you needed? Was it you or she or both who allowed that drop off?
> 
> Are you still trying to suggest or schedule quality time together?


I tried for a few years to get her to make our daughter find another babysitter on Fri or Sat night, but she never wanted to inconvenience her, plus she loves spending time with her. I quit asking and we make it a threesome most weekends. I think if we could watch her 7 days a week, my wife would be all over it. We keep her overnight on Fridays, all Saturday till late and then resume after church on Sundays. Basically we're in full "grandparents" mode, I try to pretend we're in our 70's, instead of 47 & 50, because we act like it.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> I tried for a few years to get her to make our daughter find another babysitter on Fri or Sat night, but she never wanted to inconvenience her, plus she loves spending time with her. I quit asking and we make it a threesome most weekends. I think if we could watch her 7 days a week, my wife would be all over it. We keep her overnight on Fridays, all Saturday till late and then resume after church on Sundays. Basically we're in full "grandparents" mode, I try to pretend we're in our 70's, instead of 47 & 50, because we act like it.


My guess is that your wife not only put your daughter (and other kids) ahead of you when they were growing up, but now on top of it you are being relegated to 2nd, 3rd or 4th place by your grandkids?

I must ask...WHY are you not insisting that a grown woman figure out how to get someone to watch her kids? Did you and your wife have to figure such things out yourselves? My wife's parents told her early in our marriage that they will never be a babysitting service. While we didn't live near family during the first 8 years of our marriage, we moved fairly close to my in-laws. They were right. If your daughter is old enough to have her own kids, she's old enough to take responsibility for her own kids...


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> I tried for a few years to get her to make our daughter find another babysitter on Fri or Sat night, but she never wanted to inconvenience her, plus she loves spending time with her. I quit asking and we make it a threesome most weekends. I think if we could watch her 7 days a week, my wife would be all over it. We keep her overnight on Fridays, all Saturday till late and then resume after church on Sundays. Basically we're in full "grandparents" mode, I try to pretend we're in our 70's, instead of 47 & 50, because we act like it.


If she refuses to change the baby-sitting schedule (which, btw, WTF? I can see a SAHM wanting some weekend time to connect with her H, but this is excessive. Does this child not have a dad that would want to focus on her during his free time on weekends?), have you tried scheduling quality time during the week?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My guess is that your wife not only put your daughter (and other kids) ahead of you when they were growing up, but now on top of it you are being relegated to 2nd, 3rd or 4th place by your grandkids?
> 
> I must ask...WHY are you not insisting that a grown woman figure out how to get someone to watch her kids? Did you and your wife have to figure such things out yourselves? My wife's parents told her early in our marriage that they will never be a babysitting service. While we didn't live near family during the first 8 years of our marriage, we moved fairly close to my in-laws. They were right. If your daughter is old enough to have her own kids, she's old enough to take responsibility for her own kids...


A lot of this is quite humorous, and no disrespect to you, you'll understand in a minute.
She is my wife's daughter, being a stepfather grants me absolutely nothing, except to help financially raise her and give advice when asked, so there is no insisting on my part, although I did everything but demand it, again funny on my part for thinking this would be effective?
I think the situation is a mutual desire. My wife longs to spend every minute with our granddaughter and our daughter loves free babysitting. A win win for both parties.
As far as her being responsible, here is a girl that moved out & back at 21, got pregnant, worked only part time, still lived with us until 2 years a go, she'll be 25 next month and just now got a full time job a few weeks a go. She is the poster child for irresponsibility. Thankfully her boyfriend, who isn't the child's father, loves them both & they live with him.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

My wife works full time, so not sure who you are implying is the SAHM? Our daughter lives with her boyfriend, who works 5 days a week 9-7 and every other Saturday. He watches her on weekends occasionally, when he asks for her. He is not the child's father, the biological dad is a druggie who has never laid eyes on his daughter and never plans to. I have no problem with this.
We're in bed at 10 every night, so by time dinner is done, we have only a few hours, if we weren't babysitting. We usually just watch a few shows, she is usually in full yawn mode by 9.
My theory has always been that since she lost both her parents, my wife that is, in 2005 & 2008 to cancers, and she was very close to her mother, the granddaughter has become her emotional replacement family member.

This is in response to Nora Jane. I forgot to save the quotes?


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

I think it's a big mistake to compare what you have to what others have.....in my opinion that' a great way to make yourself unhappy. What others have or don't have has no bearing on your life, and you'll fall into the keeping up with the Joneses trap. And besides, what if the average was little to none? Would you then be happy with little to none? Probably not.

So think about what you need to be happy. Have you asked your wife how she feels about intimacy with you? It's my humble opinion that most people do have a sex drive, they just might not want their spouse for a variety of reasons. Any discussion? What is your life with her like otherwise? How was it when you got married?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> A lot of this is quite humorous, and no disrespect to you, you'll understand in a minute.
> She is my wife's daughter, *being a stepfather grants me absolutely nothing, except to help financially raise her *and give advice when asked, so there is no insisting on my part, although I did everything but demand it, again funny on my part for thinking this would be effective?
> I think the situation is a mutual desire. My wife longs to spend every minute with our granddaughter and our daughter loves free babysitting. A win win for both parties.
> As far as her being responsible, here is a girl that moved out & back at 21, got pregnant, worked only part time, still lived with us until 2 years a go, she'll be 25 next month and just now got a full time job a few weeks a go. She is the poster child for irresponsibility. Thankfully her boyfriend, who isn't the child's father, loves them both & they live with him.


My apologies if this comes across as offensive, but in your honest opinion and trying to be as objective about this as possible: Do you think your life loves you? 

I know it's dangerous to come to snap decisions about things based on limited knowledge; however, based on what little I know about you and your life I get this suspicion that your wife doesn't love you for who you are but loves you for what you can provide.


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## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> I tried for a few years to get her to make our daughter find another babysitter on Fri or Sat night, but she never wanted to inconvenience her, plus she loves spending time with her. I quit asking and we make it a threesome most weekends. I think if we could watch her 7 days a week, my wife would be all over it. We keep her overnight on Fridays, all Saturday till late and then resume after church on Sundays. *Basically we're in full "grandparents" mode, I try to pretend we're in our 70's, instead of 47 & 50, because we act like it*.


That is sad, you two should be having the time of your lives at this age. 

Can you get out and have a life at least? If your wife chosses to baby sit instead of having a life with you then have you ever considered just going out with friends?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> My apologies if this comes across as offensive, but in your honest opinion and trying to be as objective about this as possible: Do you think your life loves you?
> 
> I know it's dangerous to come to snap decisions about things based on limited knowledge; however, based on what little I know about you and your life I get this suspicion that your wife doesn't love you for who you are but loves you for what you can provide.


I do believe she loves me or there would be no reason to stay. My needs in a marriage have just become greater than hers. As long as we get a long, which we do, have fun together, which we do & be there for each other ,which we are, then she is happy. I, on the other hand like more intimate conversations, which hardly ever happen, more passion, which is nonexistent & her desire to want quality/romantic time, which she doesn't need.
I've never doubted her love for me.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Holland said:


> That is sad, you two should be having the time of your lives at this age.
> 
> Can you get out and have a life at least? If your wife chosses to baby sit instead of having a life with you then have you ever considered just going out with friends?


It is sad. After the hell that her daughter put us through growing up, I really thought that at this point in our life, it would be "our" time. Now there is a granddaughter, so back to square one again. I've learned to adapt, so I'm not miserable and I do things with them and without them.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

BurningHeart said:


> It is sad. After the hell that her daughter put us through growing up, I really thought that at this point in our life, it would be "our" time. Now there is a granddaughter, so back to square one again. I've learned to adapt, so I'm not miserable and I do things with them and without them.


Good mentality to have to not sweat the small stuff. Not so good when some critical components to a healthy marriage are missing. You should ask her who her #1 priority is in life. I'd be interested to hear what she says. I already know the answer if your statements are accurate. The question is do you know who she holds as #1 in her heart?


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

lifeistooshort said:


> I think it's a big mistake to compare what you have to what others have.....in my opinion that' a great way to make yourself unhappy. What others have or don't have has no bearing on your life, and you'll fall into the keeping up with the Joneses trap. And besides, what if the average was little to none? Would you then be happy with little to none? Probably not.
> 
> So think about what you need to be happy. Have you asked your wife how she feels about intimacy with you? It's my humble opinion that most people do have a sex drive, they just might not want their spouse for a variety of reasons. Any discussion? What is your life with her like otherwise? How was it when you got married?


I did get caught up with the comparison game & you're right, it serves no purpose. I've also learned that the people that brag about how happy they are on line, are usually the most miserable in reality, so I don't believe a lot of people anyway.
I talked to her about intimacy exhaustingly. She understands it's important to me & tries to oblige, but it isn't a big deal on her end. She always says she is attracted to me, but loves kisses & cuddling just as much to feel close to me.
Our life together has always been good, as long as I can deal with the stepfamily & lower priority ranking, which I've learned to. We never fight, or disrespect each other and enjoy each others company.
When we got married, it was "hot & heavy" for the first 5 years, typical for any married couple, and then it slowly went away. She did confess to me a few years a go that she wanted to get pregnant and when it didn't happen, she lost interest in sex again, that was her "driving force" that got her going. Like me, she only had two other partners & married one of them, so she claims she has always had minimal interest in sex, mainly for procreation, but doesn't hate it, just doesn't require it.


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## BurningHeart (Dec 30, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Good mentality to have to not sweat the small stuff. Not so good when some critical components to a healthy marriage are missing. You should ask her who her #1 priority is in life. I'd be interested to hear what she says. I already know the answer if your statements are accurate. The question is do you know who she holds as #1 in her heart?


I've asked her this numerous times and she always says "me" or "us" and I think she really believes that, even though her actions clearly show that isn't the case.
The second question is tricky, because a lot of times you don't know what is going on with someone's heart. Do I think she would take a bullet for me, yes, if I was standing next to her daughter or granddaughter, probably not so much. Blood is thicker than water & she has already lost both parents.


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