# Wanting an open marriage



## KookedFish

Hi,

Thanks in advance for reading this, and I hope this is the right forum section.

My wife and I have been together for a little over 6 years, and married for about 2.5. After the initial honeymoon stage we fell into a comfortable and functional relationship. We were still having sex, and despite several problems between us due to our rocky upbringing, she's supported me through some career changes.

Despite some great things about our relationship, I've considered divorce or separation several times due to fights ranging from petty to serious. I approached her about having an open marriage and she doesn't want it. While I would like to stay with her due to family ties, our dogs and a mass of mutual friends, I find that I want to have my cake and eat it to, and welcome her to do the same. The problem is, she thinks it's wrong.

I'm not looking for advice on how to convince her, but if all this is a sign we should separate/divorce. There are so many great things about our marriage but a lot of problems too. One of the main things we fight about is her paranoia towards infidelity, which has only manifested itself into reality. And while I have not cheated on her yet, I want to. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


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## Thound

File for divorce.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Married but Happy

You will probably find more suitable advice at the polyamory web site.

Offhand, your current relationship does not sound like it is sufficiently healthy and stable to open up and be successful. Most likely, it would quickly end in divorce. I don't think you'll be able to persuade you wife, only coerce her, and that would be unacceptable, IMO. I say this from the perspective on being in an open relationship that has worked well for 14 years.


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## Rowan

Unless you were clear upfront before you married your wife that you expected an open marriage, then she isn't wrong for not wanting to have one. She though she was getting a monogamous relationship, but now you're trying to change that. You've decided you want a fundamentally different type of marriage than the one you and your wife originally agreed to have. That's a pretty serious bait and switch, coming less than 3 years after marriage. And a very serious incompatibility in what each of you think a marriage should look like.

I agree with Thound. You need to divorce your wife. Make sure any future relationships understand that you aren't interested in monogamy. There are women out there who would be fine with that arrangement, but your wife isn't one of them. It's time to split so that you _both_ can get the type of relationship you want.


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## Married but Happy

Rowan, I disagree that it's bait and switch. People discover new things about themselves as time goes on, and this can be one of those things. For example, a woman I dated in high school discovered she was lesbian after 20 years of marriage. Whether he knew before marrying that he had this inclination isn't known - it could easily be a result of marital problems and is looked at as a potential solution to them (which in this case, it's almost certainly not).


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## PBear

I'm with the others. File for divorce and find someone compatible. An "open marriage", agreed to under duress by one partner, is a recipe for disaster. 

And I say this as someone who's been to a number of sex clubs and had a reasonable number of swapping/multiple partner encounters. It's not for everyone. It was hard for my SO to deal with, even when it was her idea. An open marriage will not fix a bad relationship. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan

Married but Happy said:


> Rowan, I disagree that it's bait and switch. People discover new things about themselves as time goes on, and this can be one of those things. For example, a woman I dated in high school discovered she was lesbian after 20 years of marriage. Whether he knew before marrying that he had this inclination isn't known - it could easily be a result of marital problems and is looked at as a potential solution to them (which in this case, it's almost certainly not).


You're correct. Perhaps it wasn't a bait and switch, if he didn't realize he wanted an open marriage until just now. My guess, though, is that his wife may feel like she's been the victim of a bait and switch. 

Regardless, it's still a major point of incompatibility in their marriage.


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## Anon Pink

KookedFish said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks in advance for reading this, and I hope this is the right forum section.
> 
> My wife and I have been together for a little over 6 years, and married for about 2.5. After the initial honeymoon stage we fell into a comfortable and functional relationship. We were still having sex, and despite several problems between us due to our rocky upbringing, she's supported me through some career changes.
> 
> Despite some great things about our relationship, *I've considered divorce or separation several times due to fights ranging from petty to serious.*
> 
> *I approached her about having an open marriage and she doesn't want it.* While I would like to stay with her due to family ties, our dogs and a mass of mutual friends, I find that I want to have my cake and eat it to, and welcome her to do the same. The problem is, she thinks it's wrong.
> 
> I'm not looking for advice on how to convince her, but if all this is a sign we should separate/divorce. There are so many great things about our marriage but a lot of problems too. *One of the main things we fight about is her paranoia towards infidelity,* which has only manifested itself into reality. And while *I have not cheated on her yet, I want to.* Any advice is greatly appreciated.



I wonder if you read your own post? Your wife is paranoid about you cheating? :rofl: seriously? OMG seriously?

Dude, you should never have gotten married.

Divorce ASAP!


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## Hope1964

Release your poor wife from your clutches. PLEASE. You don't deserve her.


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## melw74

I agree with the PP get a divorce.... A dog and a host of mutual friends is not a reason to stay together.

Her fear of infidelity is justified as you have said so yourself you want to cheat.... You want to have your cake and eat it, so be fair, do your wife a favour and let her go.


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## Catherine602

Get a D. After about a year, you and your dogs will be kicking yourselves. 
How tall are you?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## soccermom2three

Divorce. You don't sound like husband material.


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## KookedFish

melw74 said:


> I agree with the PP get a divorce.... A dog and a host of mutual friends is not a reason to stay together.


What about the fact that she loves my family and I love hers? How do I say this without sounding like a total pr**k...

You all have valid points, ranging from "let her go" to "discovered something new about myself". It's like this: we've suffered some big problems in our relationship to the point where I've concluded we should divorce after several fights. One of the major problems being a reoccurring issue with her getting drunk and accusing me of staring or flirting with girls at every party, even though I wasn't. It's possible that marrying because I really like her family and she likes mine is the wrong reason. That said, we've had some great times together and have a strange mix of compatibility and stress in our marriage that makes it very difficult to just pack up and go.

I don't really know how to process what I'm feeling. Perhaps if I felt I could experience external relationships and have her be OK with it, it would minimize our problems. Or it could just be that I married for the wrong reason and should either accept what I committed to or pull the plug.

ALL of your comments are appreciated...thank you!


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## KookedFish

Catherine602 said:


> Get a D. After about a year, you and your dogs will be kicking yourselves.
> How tall are you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


You mean I'll regret my decision? That's what I'm afraid of. And why do you ask how tall I am? I'm a good height.


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## KookedFish

soccermom2three said:


> You don't sound like husband material.


I don't, do I, but it takes two to tango.


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## PBear

Being in an open marriage is NOT going to make her jealousy go away. It will likely magnify it. 

And marrying because you like each other's families qualifies as one of the stupidest reasons I've ever heard for marrying. No offense intended. But if you liked each other's families, being friends and hanging out together would have worked out just fine. 

As an FYI... My STBXW (separated for 3 years now) still talks to my mom on a regular basis, and even goes to visit my parents overnight. My mom has even said that if my STBXW gets another guy, she'd be fine with meeting him too (and, I suspect, visiting overnight). I'm ok with all this, and think it's not a bad way to handle the separation. So just because you divorce, you don't need to drop each other's families. Of course, a new woman may object to being too close to your ex...

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rowan

OP, if your marriage is bad, then coercing your wife into letting you sleep with other women will not make it better. It sounds like you did marry for the wrong reasons, or perhaps just married before you were mature enough to really know what you were doing. It happens. But compounding the existing problems by cheating or opening the marriage will only make things worse, not better.

So, either divorce or really commit to working closely with a very good marriage counselor - and probably individual counselors for both of you - to fix the marriage.


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## melw74

KookedFish said:


> What about the fact that she loves my family and I love hers? How do I say this without sounding like a total pr**k...
> 
> You all have valid points, ranging from "let her go" to "discovered something new about myself". It's like this: we've suffered some big problems in our relationship to the point where I've concluded we should divorce after several fights. One of the major problems being a reoccurring issue with her getting drunk and accusing me of staring or flirting with girls at every party, even though I wasn't. It's possible that marrying because I really like her family and she likes mine is the wrong reason. That said, we've had some great times together and have a strange mix of compatibility and stress in our marriage that makes it very difficult to just pack up and go.
> 
> I don't really know how to process what I'm feeling. Perhaps if I felt I could experience external relationships and have her be OK with it, it would minimize our problems. Or it could just be that I married for the wrong reason and should either accept what I committed to or pull the plug.
> 
> ALL of your comments are appreciated...thank you!


What about it???... Not meaning to sound harsh here, but that is still no reason to stay with her is it and inflict her with the worst betrayal ever by cheating on her, because lets be fair here YOUR the only one who wants an open marriage here NOT her.... You have already told us she has a fear of you being unfaithful..... and her fears are justified... you want in your words your cake and eat it.

Your not married to her family your married to her..... And yes marrying her for those reasons are the wrong reasons.

Come on.... You going with other people is not going to minimize your problems, Its exactly what you said it is CAKE AND EAT IT.

And yes if you cant be committed to her then yes, I think you need to pull the plug as you put it.


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## Hope1964

Yep. You cannot have an open marriage with your current wife. Don't even go there - she's already told you she is NOT ok with it. So choose - either get a divorce and live out your fantasy, or commit to your current wife and marriage and get rid of the notion that you're going to cheat or coerce your wife into an open marriage.

I also agree that you should go to a website for poly-amorous relationships or something and ask for advice there also.


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## 6301

If she's paranoid about infidelity and you bring the subject of an open marriage to her, then all your doing is throwing another log on a semi uncontrollable fire. That wasn't a smart move on your part.

If you two aren't happy and you see no light at the end of the tunnel, then end it and move on. Or try a MC and get help with your problems. 

I don't think a open marriage is a good idea. Maybe you should drop the notion.


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## KookedFish

I often wonder though...usually when someone is so suspicious of someone's wrong-doing, they're doing it themselves. So it would be unfortunate if I decide to commit to the marriage, only to find out that her suspicions of me were just unrealized guilt about what she herself is doing.


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## Hope1964

KookedFish said:


> I often wonder though...usually when someone is so suspicious of someone's wrong-doing, they're doing it themselves. So it would be unfortunate if I decide to commit to the marriage, only to find out that her suspicions of me were just unrealized guilt about what she herself is doing.


Or, the suspicious person has REASON to be suspicious???? Dude, you JUST said you ARE thinking of cheating. You told your wife you want to screw other women. Can you REALLY not see why she's suspicious????

Seriously, just divorce her. There's way too much crap going on here to sort out - you think she's cheating, she thinks you're cheating, you are wanting to cheat, and that's only scratched the surface.


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## melw74

KookedFish said:


> I often wonder though...usually when someone is so suspicious of someone's wrong-doing, they're doing it themselves. So it would be unfortunate if I decide to commit to the marriage, only to find out that her suspicions of me were just unrealized guilt about what she herself is doing.


Not necessarily. When i was with my 3 older boys dad i always feared that he would be unfaithful, I was so paranoid about what he was doing it dominated my mind too, and i never once cheated on him or thought of it.

He was in fact cheating on me and i thank my lucky stars i never married him, Well i am married now, and my husband knows if he cheats there will be no going back, and no second chances.

I think you need to sit down and have a good talk with your wife, It seems to me you do not have very good communication, that would be a start.


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## Rowan

KookedFish said:


> I often wonder though...usually when someone is so suspicious of someone's wrong-doing, they're doing it themselves. So it would be unfortunate if I decide to commit to the marriage, only to find out that her suspicions of me were just unrealized guilt about what she herself is doing.


To me, this comment speaks of lack of empathy, lack of commitment, and lack of emotional availability. I think you're looking for reasons not to commit to your marriage. No matter what your reasons for that are, if it's the case, then you shouldn't be married.


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## Hicks

Men usually get the short end of the stick in open marriages.
Do you want to raise another man's baby? Birth control is not 100%.

Also, when you get married you get 100% of the person. Warts and all. If you don't like the total package, you have to take it back to the store. But you seem to lack emotional maturity... For example how is is grounds to divorce that when she gets drunk she accuses you of cheating? That's a bit harsh.


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## KookedFish

Hope1964 said:


> Or, the suspicious person has REASON to be suspicious???? Dude, you JUST said you ARE thinking of cheating. You told your wife you want to screw other women. Can you REALLY not see why she's suspicious????
> 
> Seriously, just divorce her. There's way too much crap going on here to sort out - you think she's cheating, she thinks you're cheating, you are wanting to cheat, and that's only scratched the surface.


The false accusations started LONG before any thought or talk about an open marriage. LONG before. This issue is one of the few between us that has made this relationship difficult.

Yes, maybe I lack the emotional maturity to be in a marriage. I'm considering that as a possibility. It's my fault for marrying someone knowing how they are but expecting them to change.

Digging deep down I realize that I'm just not ready to be married, yet something stops me from throwing this marriage away. I've been turned off by the fighting, and don't see my partner in a sexual light anymore, plain and simple.

Thanks for all of your input...it's been helpful. I'll just have to sort it out and make a decision.


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## Trickster

Hope1964 said:


> Yep. You cannot have an open marriage with your current wife. Don't even go there - she's already told you she is NOT ok with it. So choose - either get a divorce and live out your fantasy, or commit to your current wife and marriage and get rid of the notion that you're going to cheat or coerce your wife into an open marriage.
> 
> I also agree that you should go to a website for poly-amorous relationships or something and ask for advice there also.


Poly forums frown against open marriages if the other spouse is not on board or has to be forced into it...what usually happens is the poly minded spouse has other relationships while the monagomous one stays monagomous... 

OP- read some books on it...Sex at Dawn, Opening Up...they are Poly type books, it discussed the hurt the spouse or partner experiences when a relationship developes... It even states to not continue an open marriage if the primary partner or Spouse is hurt or feeling neglected...

It's about being open and honest without hurting anybody...


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## Hope1964

Trickster said:


> Poly forums frown against open marriages if the other spouse is not on board or has to be forced into it.


Exactly.


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## KookedFish

I would never want to force her into it, and deep down I know it wouldn't work. Eventually one of us would develop feelings for someone and that would be the end of it.

As it stands now, our sex life is virtually non-existent. I should not have gotten married. I get bored with partners after various lengths of time for reasons I don't understand, and then every fight, every problem just piles onto my frustration of having no sex, and not being able to get it elsewhere.


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## Redpill

KookedFish said:


> As it stands now, our sex life is virtually non-existent.


Join the club. 

As many have said it's time to divorce. Staying together for dogs, and because you like your inlaws isn't a valid reason to continue a marriage you're obviously unhappy with.


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## PBear

My advice... Work on fixing yourself. Otherwise you'll just be wheeling your baggage to your next home. 

C
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KookedFish

PBear said:


> My advice... Work on fixing yourself. Otherwise you'll just be wheeling your baggage to your next home.
> 
> C
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree 100%, but feel like it's something I need to do alone.


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## PBear

KookedFish said:


> I agree 100%, but feel like it's something I need to do alone.


Then let her go.

C


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## over20

Catherine602 said:


> Get a D. After about a year, you and your dogs will be kicking yourselves.
> How tall are you?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine602....I really like your post on this but I have to honestly ask you...why do you question people's height? You have asked me the same thing......:scratchhead:


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## SteveK

KookedFish said:


> What about the fact that she loves my family and I love hers? How do I say this without sounding like a total pr**k...
> 
> You all have valid points, ranging from "let her go" to "discovered something new about myself". It's like this: we've suffered some big problems in our relationship to the point where I've concluded we should divorce after several fights. One of the major problems being a reoccurring issue with her getting drunk and accusing me of staring or flirting with girls at every party, even though I wasn't. It's possible that marrying because I really like her family and she likes mine is the wrong reason. That said, we've had some great times together and have a strange mix of compatibility and stress in our marriage that makes it very difficult to just pack up and go.
> 
> I don't really know how to process what I'm feeling. Perhaps if I felt I could experience external relationships and have her be OK with it, it would minimize our problems. Or it could just be that I married for the wrong reason and should either accept what I committed to or pull the plug.
> 
> ALL of your comments are appreciated...thank you!


Listen, let me tell you as a man going through total hell right now. About 15 years ago and then about 8'years ago my marriage turned upside down with fights, verbal abuse , etc..some two way physical abuse etc.

We were together for a total of 26.5 years when my wife got into an EA, it eventually went PA and she left to be with a total scummbog. Anyhow, I am devastated, not that my marriage is a mess, but that maybe we got married to,young, that maybe after our kids were born we should have parted ways. I don't know I can't look back, but in my early 50's facing this divorce, loosing the love of my life who I have become codependent on, and knowing that she already found someone else, is killing me to no end. The TAM participants have helped me immensely, but my advice:

Get out now for you and for her.


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## howdidthishappentome?

I'm curious about something. What does she want?

I mean I get it, she doesn't want you to have sex with other women, openly or clandestinely. But if you asked her what fairytale land would look like, would she say you'd change into a different person, or would she say she wished the marriage was over? 

If she wishes you'd change into a different person, then maybe you could mull over what that person looks like, and whether or not that's someone you think you are or aspire to be. If it is, you could try making changes. If it's not, then obviously it's time to go - she wants someone you're not, you want something she's not interested in having/being.

In all likelihood, from what you've already said, it's time to end the marriage. But the less emotional and volatile you can make this, the better the chances that you don't lose friendships with family, shared custody of the dogs if you want it and so on. And - I think - the more you can show her that this is the right thing - or the more she already agrees that it's the right thing - the more positive things can come out of the divorce.


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## KookedFish

SteveK,

That sucks man, I feel for you. I'm completely torn between leaving and staying, mainly cause I know how much she doesn't want it - even after a crazy, and usually stupid fight.

My parents are twice-divorced and in their 50s and 60s, and they're doing fine. One even found someone who seems really compatible, so, there's always hope.


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## KookedFish

howdidthishappentome? said:


> I'm curious about something. What does she want?
> 
> I mean I get it, she doesn't want you to have sex with other women, openly or clandestinely. But if you asked her what fairytale land would look like, would she say you'd change into a different person, or would she say she wished the marriage was over?
> 
> If she wishes you'd change into a different person, then maybe you could mull over what that person looks like, and whether or not that's someone you think you are or aspire to be. If it is, you could try making changes. If it's not, then obviously it's time to go - she wants someone you're not, you want something she's not interested in having/being.
> 
> In all likelihood, from what you've already said, it's time to end the marriage. But the less emotional and volatile you can make this, the better the chances that you don't lose friendships with family, shared custody of the dogs if you want it and so on. And - I think - the more you can show her that this is the right thing - or the more she already agrees that it's the right thing - the more positive things can come out of the divorce.


Thanks, that's a good way to look at it, and something I've thought about. I think we both want each other to be different, which obviously is a major problem, cause it's hard to change who you are. At the same time, people change, but it's usually not in the direction the other person wants.


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## roseblssm6

I think the others are right, you should cut her loose. I don't think you did the bait and switch thing, but I completely empathize with what it feels like to being a situation and either change as a person or realize things about yourself you never knew before.


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## SouthwestGal

This is interesting I am in the same boat. Except I am the wife that does not want a open marriage. 

17 yrs down to drain turns 40 and thats it.. He wants an open marriage. 

Good luck I am leaving..
We have children that is going to be the worst of it..


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## poppyseed

KookedFish said:


> I really like her family and she likes mine is the wrong reason. That said, we've had some great times together and have a strange mix of compatibility and stress in our marriage that makes it very difficult to just pack up and go.
> 
> I don't really know how to process what I'm feeling. *Perhaps if I felt I could experience external relationships and have her be OK with it,* it would minimize our problems. Or it could just be that I married for the wrong reason and should either accept what I committed to or pull the plug.
> 
> ALL of your comments are appreciated...thank you!


Hi KF

That's not an unusual way of thinking (highlighted in bold). I'd say, comments such as "Divorce her" "Get a Divorce" aren't really any form of advice whatsoever, if I am blatantly honest. When people come to a forum such as this, it's more to do with complex feelings than simply told "have a divorce"..

On the other hand - I personally don't think "open marriage" would work. I respect people who are married with this type of principle. You can stay married of course as you still love your wife as a friend. But in a long run, I doubt if it will last. Men may conveniently think (I don't mean to sound offensive..)their wife ought to allow them to have sex with random women. I don't think many women would think that way.. 

You are probably at the beginning of the end. Unfortunately, very rarely people can simply get up and go..people go through mixed complex feelings to work through before they reach at D...even this process may take years.


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## KookedFish

poppyseed said:


> Hi KF
> 
> That's not an unusual way of thinking (highlighted in bold). I'd say, comments such as "Divorce her" "Get a Divorce" aren't really any form of advice whatsoever, if I am blatantly honest. When people come to a forum such as this, it's more to do with complex feelings than simply told "have a divorce"..
> 
> On the other hand - I personally don't think "open marriage" would work. I respect people who are married with this type of principle. You can stay married of course as you still love your wife as a friend. But in a long run, I doubt if it will last. Men may conveniently think (I don't mean to sound offensive..)their wife ought to allow them to have sex with random women. I don't think many women would think that way..
> 
> You are probably at the beginning of the end. Unfortunately, very rarely people can simply get up and go..people go through mixed complex feelings to work through before they reach at D...even this process may take years.


This is the most accurate assessment yet! Mixed feelings...feelings of friendship, responsibility, good memories as well as bad, all stewing together with the absence of sex in our marriage. You're absolutely right, hearing just a simple "get a divorce" isn't really why I came here, yet like you said, an open marriage is not what's going to happen.

I've been brutally honest with my wife lately about how I'm feeling, or lack of feeling, which has seemed to calm things down considerably between us. And when I say brutally honest I'm talking EXACTLY what I'm thinking...no fear whatsoever.

Because things have calmed down so much (we used to fight every other day for the last year), it's almost starting to turn around how I feel about staying. While I've been feeling that it's just part of my nature for my sexual interest to wane, I've also got the feeling that if we were to somehow find that connection spark...that "wow I have so much fun with this person we have to be together" thing, it would lead to more fun in the bedroom. That's something I got a glimpse of recently but haven't really felt in years.


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## SteveK

KookedFish said:


> SteveK,
> 
> That sucks man, I feel for you. I'm completely torn between leaving and staying, mainly cause I know how much she doesn't want it - even after a crazy, and usually stupid fight.
> 
> My parents are twice-divorced and in their 50s and 60s, and they're doing fine. One even found someone who seems really compatible, so, there's always hope.


Just saw this. I refuse to look at my thread for now. 

I need a break. How are you holding up?

There's a woman who posts on my board that has an uncanny ability to make me tear up.

I only wish I found TAM before my marriage got in trouble. I would have learned a lot from these people.

I have a few threads if your ever in the mood for a bad lifetime Movie script just read my original,thread!

Take,good care


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