# How long Do I do this



## Wutsoutdere

Hi everyone.
I’m hoping you can help me. I’ve lost sight of normal and I’m adrift in a messed up place.

My wife and I have been married for 28 years. We are both 52.

12 years ago I had a nervous breakdown and there was a reckoning for things I’d ignored. During this breakdown I left my wife and was a jerk for 7 months. There was no one else. That is not my issue. I have a few but that’s not it. 

I won’t go into my issues but suffice it to say I was trying my best to drive her off. She never gave up on me and I got my head straight. I moved back in, went to counseling for a couple years and got on the proper anti depressants. I took responsibility to any one with ears to hear it. I have never asked her to change anything. And I’ve done my best to make her life awesome. My change took about a year.

At that point she began to stop being understanding and took me to task for any and everything I said and did during our separation. (I interacted with my disfunctional family a lot and shut down emotionally completely. It’s my go to place when things go off the rails.)

Now the problem... when she first took me to task it was everyday serious blowouts and emotional beating for me. It eventually lessened to every other day for a few years then every three days. And so on. We are at 12 years and while we talk about what an a$$ I was a few times a week, the situation only redlines once every few weeks. When there is a blowup I try to answer questions and be calm but the session can last from a few hours to the longest that was literally 27 hours straight.

By redline I mean I get a serious ear beating about the same things over and over...
How could you?
Why did you say this
Why do you say that
You’re this you’re that
I can’t believe I’m even with you

That’s all very mild. For the first 6 years, she was actually very cruel. I won’t go into that. 

In between these sessions she is awesome and we are perfect together. When she’s hurt, a different person shows up.

My question... I’ve lost track of normal and acceptable. Please tell me.


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## Noble1

Sounds like there is still a lot of resentment in your wife and until she is able to properly process it and accept it, things may not change.

Any chance of the both of you getting professional help to talk / process things through?

Good luck.


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## BarbedFenceRider

Are you currently seeing a counselor or is she? She appears to be stuck in a negative cycle. Also, she appears to have a poor coping mechanism. There may be some hidden resentment towards you that is unresolved. Marriage for 28 years is a loooong one. Alot longer than what is the normal these days. And to keep anger and despair for 12 years is just traumatic. You need professional help. independent counseling for her anger and resentment is paramount. She needs to feel good again. Yes, you had your issues in the past. And it sucks, but by being stuck in a middle ground of fighting and resentment, she is actually just hurting herself.


By asking here, I think you do know what is "normal" and "acceptable". And you are just brow beating yourself for something that happened 12 years ago. You NEED to be asking yourself what do you actually want? Are you IN LOVE with your wife and truly want to build a better relationship? Or are you just maintaining the status quo and cohabiting as angry room mates?

Maybe you need to read to her what you just wrote here and see what she thinks about it...Is her life truly awesome. (Not to downplay your role and effort there.) But is she truly happy with the marriage? Does she even love you? How often do you say it to each other? How often is thank you incorporated into your speech with one another? Maybe you can let her know that you want her to be happy and not angry with you. And what does she want to achieve that? How can you help her with her pain?


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## Wutsoutdere

Thank you for the responses.

Neither of us is in counseling currently. I went for a few years. I eventually cut my crazy family off and life has become... normal.

My wife is an incredibly smart and beautiful woman and I do love her to her core. Old grey haired love till you die stuff. We travel the world and she no longer has to work. Ive owned a construction company now for 30 plus years and we want for nothing.

I can’t share this with anyone in my life bc when I have many years ago, the answer was always “how long are you going to do this?”

I realize she obsesses and you are right, she resents me often times. I’m not sure if it’s always or just when the feeling are overwhelming. Bc we have an incredibly romantic time together. Intense sexually and non, but when this stuff rears up all that goes away.

I can’t get her to go to a counselor. Like I said, she’s smart and will present things in a way to win the day. Also counseling day is just another trigger to have a redline session.

I think about giving up and well...it’s out there. Not what I want but I’m strong and can deal. I’m pretty sure it would be the end of her in many ways. I just don’t know if I can live with that.

I’m sorry. I guess I’ve talked myself into a corner that you guys can’t possibly know the way out of. 
I hear you and it helps regardless. Thanks.


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## personofinterest

I think counseling for both of you would be beneficial. I know you say she won't go, but I'll be blunt.

It's been 12 years. SHE is choosing to hang onto this. She probably gets something out of it. I would gently shut down the conversation when she initiates the "you were such an a**" talk.

Either she wants a marriage or a punching bag. She needs to decide.


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## Wutsoutdere

Well said. I think you’re right. 
I’m in the middle of dealing with her via phone. I guess I’ll get the chance now.


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## BluesPower

Wutsoutdere said:


> Hi everyone.
> I’m hoping you can help me. I’ve lost sight of normal and I’m adrift in a messed up place.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 28 years. We are both 52.
> 
> 12 years ago I had a nervous breakdown and there was a reckoning for things I’d ignored. During this breakdown I left my wife and was a jerk for 7 months. There was no one else. That is not my issue. I have a few but that’s not it.
> 
> I won’t go into my issues but suffice it to say I was trying my best to drive her off. She never gave up on me and I got my head straight. I moved back in, went to counseling for a couple years and got on the proper anti depressants. I took responsibility to any one with ears to hear it. I have never asked her to change anything. And I’ve done my best to make her life awesome. My change took about a year.
> 
> At that point she began to stop being understanding and took me to task for any and everything I said and did during our separation. (I interacted with my disfunctional family a lot and shut down emotionally completely. It’s my go to place when things go off the rails.)
> 
> Now the problem... when she first took me to task it was everyday serious blowouts and emotional beating for me. It eventually lessened to every other day for a few years then every three days. And so on. We are at 12 years and while we talk about what an a$$ I was a few times a week, the situation only redlines once every few weeks. When there is a blowup I try to answer questions and be calm but the session can last from a few hours to the longest that was literally 27 hours straight.
> 
> By redline I mean I get a serious ear beating about the same things over and over...
> How could you?
> Why did you say this
> Why do you say that
> You’re this you’re that
> I can’t believe I’m even with you
> 
> That’s all very mild. For the first 6 years, she was actually very cruel. I won’t go into that.
> 
> In between these sessions she is awesome and we are perfect together. When she’s hurt, a different person shows up.
> 
> My question... I’ve lost track of normal and acceptable. Please tell me.


So, I guess you are bi-polar or an addict and you went off. OK. It happens, not cool but it happened. 

She is full of resentment and it is not going away. 

YOU were just such a happy puppy dog that got to come home when your head cleared, that you have become super weak. 

Want the truth... If you want it to change, file for divorce, hand her the papers. And tell her, you individually, and us together are going to counseling or this is over. 

Look, you made a mistake, she could have divorced you, but she did not. 

Now you have to be strong again and stand up for yourself as a man, and she can choose to get help or end that marriage. 

Here is the bottom line, You made a mistake, she CHOSE to take you back, at some point he has to get over is. 

The other thing is this, when you are involved in this type of abuse, it starts slow to an extent, and it goes on and on. And you are right, this is not normal, and you should have put a stop to it years ago, but you thought you had to do time for your mistake. 

Well you have done your time, it is time for this crap to be over...


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## Steve2.0

Read a book called "When I say No i feel guilty"
It will teach you some communication tricks to get to the bottom of this.

Seems like she is constantly testing you to see if your old self will come back. Maybe your response needs to be more of "Yes, i was a jerk.. Thanks for getting me through it"

The book has many communication techniques that might be helpful for you...


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## Wutsoutdere

Steve2.0 said:


> Read a book called "When I say No i feel guilty"
> It will teach you some communication tricks to get to the bottom of this.
> 
> Seems like she is constantly testing you to see if your old self will come back. Maybe your response needs to be more of "Yes, i was a jerk.. Thanks for getting me through it"
> 
> The book has many communication techniques that might be helpful for you...



I definitely will check it out.

You are dead on with her testing me constantly. She’s been left with abandonment issues, leaving me with the inability to threaten leaving to get results. 

I have told her thanks for getting me through it. It’s actually been my approach and I view it as truth. But now it’s time to let it in the past. I just dread all of it.


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## Taxman

She is really holding resentment. I think that marriage counselling is the only way to resolve this. She seems to want to beat you up for transgressions made years ago, and frankly repaired since. So, this time in her life, was significantly horrid, but carrying the anger for years is no resolution to what happened.


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## Wutsoutdere

Taxman said:


> She is really holding resentment. I think that marriage counselling is the only way to resolve this. She seems to want to beat you up for transgressions made years ago, and frankly repaired since. So, this time in her life, was significantly horrid, but carrying the anger for years is no resolution to what happened.


You make an important point that I’m sure you didn’t intend.
When I say to her that it’s unproductive to “beat me up” she gets angry and says she’s just expressing how I made her feel. But you speak the truth, she is venting at me and not really looking for my answers. What she gets from the sessions is aired feelings that make her feel better... the caveat is that it makes me feel worse.
That leads to my original question, how long is it right for me to be understanding and patient? (The answer that you all supplied is that I’m way past that point)

I hear things like “Be a man” or the word weak is used. It’s not weakness that makes me patient, it’s guilt and hope that this is the last of it. 

I know everyone hangs their hat on getting counseling but the vast majority of counselors are not helpful to put it mildly. We saw one before I left 12 yrs ago that put the kibash on our marriage. She was bad.
We went through several before I found a guy that helped me. My wife never found one that helped. That could be her lack of willingness as much as anything.

You guys are great. That’s for being here to help.


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## personofinterest

Taxman said:


> She is really holding resentment. I think that marriage counselling is the only way to resolve this. She seems to want to beat you up for transgressions made years ago, and frankly repaired since. So, this time in her life, was significantly horrid, but carrying the anger for years is no resolution to what happened.


TRUTH

No matter the transgression - NO MATTER - at some point you need to poop or get off the pot. Using a past hurt as a power play is not a sign of a healthy person. And after a time, the CHOICE to be unhealthy falls 100% on the resentful party.


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## personofinterest

> It’s not weakness that makes me patient, it’s guilt


Never underestimate the power of guilt. And don't let someone who claims to love you wield it against you. I've seen people do this for multiple decades. It's sad.


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## Taxman

And there you have it. She has been going on about this for way too long. My wife would not let something drop between her and a cousin. Everytime they got into a discussion, this particular slight, and it's repercussions were thrown in the cousin's face. UNTIL: This winter, the cousin lost it, turned and screamed at my wife: JUST FUC KING DROP IT ALREADY. GODDAMN IT, I have heard this shlt nonstop from you for fuc king years. Damn, either you fuc king drop it , or I will drop you...on your stupid fu king head. My wife, who does tend to dwell, got the famous deer caught in the headlights look, and stammered, sorry, I did not realize that I was doing this. Please forgive me. I pointed out that she does this quite regularly. Year before, it was something that I had lost my temper with her: She thought it was funny to call me "gay" for something that I could not recall what I did. It burned my ass. Finally, she called me gay one last time: I turned and said, you ever say that to me again, you can be assured of two things; my divorce and you losing a piss pot full of teeth. Got the deer in the headlights look again. Yeah, and I mean what I said. She replies, "Why are you so thin skinned?" So I reply, how about every few weeks, I call you fat." WHHHHAAAATTTTT????? Yeah, see how you like it when I call you fatso in front of your family and friends. Hit a nerve. (actually, it cut her to the bone, a guy she had it off with years ago, called her fat-she never lived it down) She is continually weight conscious, however, she rarely checks her mouth. I said guess who is thin skinned. Oh all right, she said as if blowing me off. I said, NO, it is not alright. You learn to show respect. You don't get to bring this up as me rebuking you. This is me laying down the law from here on in. People do not like to have shlt like this thrown in their face long term. Get the fu ck over it.

OP, time to lay down the law. It is done. It is over. It is in the past. You did not go out and kill small children or fu ck anything that moved. You had a breakdown and were nasty to your wife. It is done, and tell her that you are no longer going to entertain the piss on me show.


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## Wutsoutdere

You are all absolutely right.

We just got home from a week in the Caribbean. A month ago we were in The UK touring for 2 weeks. This morning she wakes up and I’m an A-hole. She interrogated me for 30 minutes without me being able to finish a sentence. I finally had to get back to work. That was 8:30 am. She is no where to be found. She went dark. I’m headed home from work and still no word.

Tonight should be a challenge...


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## Lostinthought61

12 years of anger, i don't get it, i would have thought even after a couple years the most angry person would get exhausted...are you sure there is not something else going on...


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## Wutsoutdere

Lostinthought61 said:


> 12 years of anger, i don't get it, i would have thought even after a couple years the most angry person would get exhausted...are you sure there is not something else going on...



Well, I’ve been told by objective sources that she must be borderline personality or something.

I finally heard from her. It started slow but escalated until I got home. We sat on the porch for awhile. She was more and more angry so I put the brakes on and she went into interrogation mode. I lost my ****. I ended up telling her I want a divorce. I’m done. This is awful. She won’t listen to me she wont consider that she’s not in the right to still harbor all her resentment. 

I told her I can’t stay married to someone who resents me and hates me even part of the time. Not sure where this goes from here. I tweaked her abandonment issue pretty bad.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

No it won’t be a challenge if you push back and take no ****. Grow a pair and put her in her place. This is no way to live.


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## *Deidre*

You messed up 12 years ago, and she is still holding onto this. This is called emotional abuse. Marriage isn't a prison, and some of you, honestly, are living in a prison of your own making.

Unless you want to live with an emotionally abusive woman for the rest of your days, she needs to get some therapy. If she doesn't wish to do this, your only options are to remain in an unhealthy place with her, or separate. You don't have to divorce, but you could separate.

It sounds like a terrible situation to be in. I wish you the best, but you don't deserve to be brow beaten for the rest of your life over something that happened 12 years ago, and there wasn't any infidelity.


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## *Deidre*

Wutsoutdere said:


> You are all absolutely right.
> 
> We just got home from a week in the Caribbean. A month ago we were in The UK touring for 2 weeks. This morning she wakes up and I’m an A-hole. She interrogated me for 30 minutes without me being able to finish a sentence. I finally had to get back to work. That was 8:30 am. She is no where to be found. She went dark. I’m headed home from work and still no word.
> 
> Tonight should be a challenge...


You should ask to separate, seriously. 

You're in an emotionally abusive relationship, and only you can change it. Love won't fix this.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

If I may add one thing. I would encourage you to add one word to your vocabulary. Unacceptable. Each time she dredges up the past and degrades you your reply should be “Woman, that is unacceptable.” Works like a charm.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Wutsoutdere said:


> You are all absolutely right.
> 
> We just got home from a week in the Caribbean. A month ago we were in The UK touring for 2 weeks. This morning she wakes up and I’m an A-hole. She interrogated me for 30 minutes without me being able to finish a sentence. I finally had to get back to work. That was 8:30 am. She is no where to be found. She went dark. I’m headed home from work and still no word.
> 
> Tonight should be a challenge...


Check your phone bill.


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## oldshirt

I am assuming you did not return to the home and marriage so you could be punished for 12 years. 

If she took you back into the home so she could punish you indefinitely, that is on her. It is up to you to determine if that is acceptable to you or not. 

If not, then do not accept it. 

One of the things about reconciliation after a separation is that the home and marriage have to be a better place to be than on your own. In other words, each party has to want to be in the marriage and the marriage has to be at least habitable. If someone is being bashed and abused and punished for a dozen years, that is hardly a habitable place to be.

If she can't move on and put this behind her, then it is a toxic place for both of you. 

Counseling may be worth a shot. In counseling she may be given one last shot to get everything off her chest once and for all and then be given the tools to put it behind her and move on. 

If she can't do that, then there really isn't much point in both of you being miserable in that hostile and toxic environment.


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## Livvie

Wutsoutdere said:


> Lostinthought61 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 12 years of anger, i don't get it, i would have thought even after a couple years the most angry person would get exhausted...are you sure there is not something else going on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I’ve been told by objective sources that she must be borderline personality or something.
> 
> I finally heard from her. It started slow but escalated until I got home. We sat on the porch for awhile. She was more and more angry so I put the brakes on and she went into interrogation mode. I lost my ****. I ended up telling her I want a divorce. I’m done. This is awful. She won’t listen to me she wont consider that she’s not in the right to still harbor all her resentment.
> 
> I told her I can’t stay married to someone who resents me and hates me even part of the time. Not sure where this goes from here. I tweaked her abandonment issue pretty bad.
Click to expand...

Might I suggest you stop framing it as tweaking her "abandonment issue". Your are honestly stating your boundary. Abuse = not being married anymore. It's your boundary. It's not abandonment. It's just truth. Ending an abusive relationship isn't ABANDONMENT. It's saving your own life and getting out of abuse.

She can call it whatever she wants but you didn't need to buy into it, anymore.


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## *Deidre*

Lonely husband 42301 said:


> If I may add one thing. I would encourage you to add one word to your vocabulary. Unacceptable. Each time she dredges up the past and degrades you your reply should be “Woman, that is unacceptable.” Works like a charm.


''woman''  I remember how funny you are, LH. Hope your life has been going well.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband

*Deidre* said:


> ''woman''  I remember how funny you are, LH. Hope your life has been going well.


Life is good my dear lady. I am finer than frog hair split four ways.:smile2:


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## Wutsoutdere

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Check your phone bill.



She went to visits her cousin but I get your meaning. I’ve been keeping track of that type of thing while trying to find some rhyme or reason for the random anger and what not. I can figure out what causes the mood swings.


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## Wutsoutdere

Livvie said:


> Might I suggest you stop framing it as tweaking her "abandonment issue". Your are honestly stating your boundary. Abuse = not being married anymore. It's your boundary. It's not abandonment. It's just truth. Ending an abusive relationship isn't ABANDONMENT. It's saving your own life and getting out of abuse.
> 
> She can call it whatever she wants but you didn't need to buy into it, anymore.



I definitely laid down a solid boundary and meant it last night. I’ve done it before but it was always a line in the sand. Not last night. I ready to bail if need be. 
She woke at 4am and started to very firmly tell me all I did wrong and it quickly escalated to her anger. I told her to stop ***ching at me. I’m done with it. I got up and went to make my coffee. I’m off to work now. Should be a good day. F- it

I’m calling a counselor at 8 am.

Thanks all


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## Livvie

Wutsoutdere said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Might I suggest you stop framing it as tweaking her "abandonment issue". Your are honestly stating your boundary. Abuse = not being married anymore. It's your boundary. It's not abandonment. It's just truth. Ending an abusive relationship isn't ABANDONMENT. It's saving your own life and getting out of abuse.
> 
> She can call it whatever she wants but you didn't need to buy into it, anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I definitely laid down a solid boundary and meant it last night. I’ve done it before but it was always a line in the sand. Not last night. I ready to bail if need be.
> She woke at 4am and started to very firmly tell me all I did wrong and it quickly escalated to her anger. I told her to stop ***ching at me. I’m done with it. I got up and went to make my coffee. I’m off to work now. Should be a good day. F- it
> 
> I’m calling a counselor at 8 am.
> 
> Thanks all
Click to expand...

That's good you are moving forward to stop the abuse coming at you.

Might I suggest researching attorneys as well.


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## Wutsoutdere

Once again, I’m looking for opinions on what’s normal or even what’s wrong.

I scheduled a counseling session for us both on July 13. 

The day after this last blowout she is remorseful. It’s a pattern. She wants me to be romantic and lovey. It usually takes me 3 or 4 days to even talk with inflection in my voice let alone get lovey. I go into depressed survival mode.

Last night she was getting bummed out after we had a Father’s Day picnic that went perfectly. She starts Telling me she’s exhausted from trying to gauge my approval and happiness. I have been completely normal and actually pretty outgoing bc my kids and their significant others were over. She is clearly projecting her guilt and imagining me upset still. 

I know I’m close to normal and tell her I love her and I’m in it to win it. I tell her not to worry and all the **** I really shouldn’t feel compelled to tell her bc she’s the one that needs to make some adjustments. I can do no more. It’s like trying to fill a bucket with a bunch of holes in it. Every time I get it full it empties right before my eyes.

it’s all on me to get us over her abusing me. I was calm and told her that she needs to chill out and enjoy the fantastic life we have. Honestly, outside of my nervous breakdown 12 years ago I have never asked her to change a thing or been bad to her in any way. Anyone in our lives would agree with this.

Maybe I’ll expand on the “breakdown” a bit...
I had a violent and traumatic childhood. Serious dysfunctional family. Turned to athletics for coping. Pro fighter at 21 yrs old. Attempted suicide at 22. Left with chronic pain. Put all my focus into my construction company. Met my wife after success at 25 yrs old.

Working super hard and training still in my 30s. Coaching fighters and still competing. My business got to big so I quit training and my job changed to only office work. I lost my mind within 6 months. My anger and intolerance went through the roof. I took no **** in any way.
Self destructive self took over and I started to think suicide again. I was cold and angry.

Anyway, yeah. A suicide hotline and A good counselor helped me sort it out. It took a year to get reasonable again. A couple surgeries for the injuries I had lingering for so many years and Im in the field doing physical work. I still train a reasonable amount. Homeostasis is good.

That’s the first time I’ve written all that...ugh.
This is the mess she has to live with.


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## arbitrator

Wutsoutdere said:


> Hi everyone.
> I’m hoping you can help me. I’ve lost sight of normal and I’m adrift in a messed up place.
> 
> My wife and I have been married for 28 years. We are both 52.
> 
> 12 years ago I had a nervous breakdown and there was a reckoning for things I’d ignored. During this breakdown I left my wife and was a jerk for 7 months. There was no one else. That is not my issue. I have a few but that’s not it.
> 
> I won’t go into my issues but suffice it to say I was trying my best to drive her off. She never gave up on me and I got my head straight. I moved back in, went to counseling for a couple years and got on the proper anti depressants. I took responsibility to any one with ears to hear it. I have never asked her to change anything. And I’ve done my best to make her life awesome. My change took about a year.
> 
> At that point she began to stop being understanding and took me to task for any and everything I said and did during our separation. (I interacted with my disfunctional family a lot and shut down emotionally completely. It’s my go to place when things go off the rails.)
> 
> Now the problem... when she first took me to task it was everyday serious blowouts and emotional beating for me. It eventually lessened to every other day for a few years then every three days. And so on. We are at 12 years and while we talk about what an a$$ I was a few times a week, the situation only redlines once every few weeks. When there is a blowup I try to answer questions and be calm but the session can last from a few hours to the longest that was literally 27 hours straight.
> 
> By redline I mean I get a serious ear beating about the same things over and over...
> How could you?
> Why did you say this
> Why do you say that
> You’re this you’re that
> I can’t believe I’m even with you
> 
> That’s all very mild. For the first 6 years, she was actually very cruel. I won’t go into that.
> 
> In between these sessions she is awesome and we are perfect together. When she’s hurt, a different person shows up.
> 
> My question... I’ve lost track of normal and acceptable. Please tell me.


*What you are in is called marriage and commitment!

God never promised you that your loving union would be the proverbial bed of roses, but the two of you have continued to persevere despite the occasional acrimony!

You two haven't seen fit to shut down, become adulterous or abusive!

Until that happens, bask in the love and the mystery of your relationship, always being the last one to develop anger and the first one to offer forgiveness!

May God continue to bless you and yours!*


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## aine

Wutsoutthere,

Did she ever go to counseling to deal with all the issues 12 years ago? She needs to, to get a handle on the resentment and what appears to be lack of trust. Then you both need counseling as a couple, to face the past, cleanse it and move on. You also need to sit her down and tell her that was the past, (women are great at bringing up the past, again and again, that is what we do), tell her you are there for the long haul, if she cannot work with you without abusing you emotionally then it looks like you have no future and perhaps you can both agree on ending it.


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## AKA Broken Arrow

You can save it if you both want to. My wife was angry at me for about 2 years until it finally subsided. I couldn't imagine 12 years of that. I would have bailed long ago but who am I to say?


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## [email protected]

Every marriage has its mistakes. You made yours and it is done and in the past. In so many books on love and relationships I have read it states to leve past arguments and mistakes in the past. You learn and grow from them. 
I think counseling is a wonderful option. You have been married for a long time. You both have a wonderful time together when the going is good! If she has s willing to see a counselor there is hope. I understand you feel she will make it all work in her favor... but the counselor is not there to take sides and there is a huge issue at hand. I think she needs more help then you think. You got your help now she needs to discover what help she needs and a counselor may help her find that. Just my oppinion.


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