# Need a wife's/woman's input



## bagelboy

Oh man do I need advise. 

I am husband and married 25 years in a sexless marriage now for 7 years. We don’t touch, hug only if something really bad happens and there for support.
We are amiable house mates. Sleep in same bed but don’t get near each other.
She put on 25 pounds and stopped working out and said “I’m done and not trying anymore…just going to do what makes me happen”
Its a long story. I was never physically attracted to her, she then lost 30 pounds, size 4, worked out with weights, dieted. Was a head turner. Then I married her and it was over. We had kids. It was like she did it to get me, have kids, she stayed home with them. I love them I love her in a deep way as a friend, mother to my children. We have NO common interest, have never gone out, no mutual friends. She has friends and is social.

This is where people go "Then why the heck did you two marry each other?"

Think if Indian Marriages that are arranged by parents. Wife has no choice. 

In our situation I had been heavy into a Christian church. My mentors told me "Looks are fleeting, don't base this on that. Do you think she will be a great mom and friend because you are saying that is important to you" Also, I had HUGE issues with being an adult adoptee and un-diagnosed bi-polar 2 (Im on meds now for 3 years). I think I was looking for a "mom", she was looking for someone to enable (she is adult child of alcoholic dad and struggles with boundaries...always looking to rescue someone)


I am SUPER lonely. So I meet someone who takes my breath away. She is married but husband left and lives across the country. She has a girl…kind of single mom.
This affair is much easier for her because no husband around to hide from.
Its killing me because I feel I met a soulmate. Too early to tell but I dont want to throw away 27 years of history with my wife. I selfish part of me wants to stay married in my housemate situation and keep the affair. I would even love for my wife to meet someone who could make her happy. I care about her more like a sister and best friend but this is not and never will be again intimacy.


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## 269370

bagelboy said:


> Oh man do I need advise.
> 
> 
> 
> I am husband and married 25 years in a sexless marriage now for 7 years. We don’t touch, hug only if something really bad happens and there for support.
> 
> We are amiable house mates. Sleep in same bed but don’t get near each other.
> 
> She put on 25 pounds and stopped working out and said “I’m done and not trying anymore…just going to do what makes me happen”
> 
> Its a long story. I was never physically attracted to her, she then lost 30 pounds, size 4, worked out with weights, dieted. Was a head turner. Then I married her and it was over. We had kids. It was like she did it to get me, have kids, she stayed home with them. I love them I love her in a deep way as a friend, mother to my children. We have NO common interest, have never gone out, no mutual friends. She has friends and is social.
> 
> 
> 
> This is where people go "Then why the heck did you two marry each other?"
> 
> 
> 
> Think if Indian Marriages that are arranged by parents. Wife has no choice.
> 
> 
> 
> In our situation I had been heavy into a Christian church. My mentors told me "Looks are fleeting, don't base this on that. Do you think she will be a great mom and friend because you are saying that is important to you" Also, I had HUGE issues with being an adult adoptee and un-diagnosed bi-polar 2 (Im on meds now for 3 years). I think I was looking for a "mom", she was looking for someone to enable (she is adult child of alcoholic dad and struggles with boundaries...always looking to rescue someone)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am SUPER lonely. So I meet someone who takes my breath away. She is married but husband left and lives across the country. She has a girl…kind of single mom.
> 
> This affair is much easier for her because no husband around to hide from.
> 
> Its killing me because I feel I met a soulmate. Too early to tell but I dont want to throw away 27 years of history with my wife. I selfish part of me wants to stay married in my housemate situation and keep the affair. I would even love for my wife to meet someone who could make her happy. I care about her more like a sister and best friend but this is not and never will be again intimacy.




Are you looking for a ‘it’s ok to cheat’? You won’t find it here.
Divorce first then maybe do what makes you happy. While married, you are supposed to be miserable 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## bagelboy

Hah. No when you area married you are supposed to be in love, work through the tough stuff, but still have attraction, intimacy, touch, hugs, kisses, romance. 

I am not looking for its okay. I know its not. I am maybe looking for exactly the advise you gave.

Thank you.

If I hear you and agree then I need to stop this affair now. Divorce my wife. Then see if the woman and I are met to be with each other and whether she divorces her husband.

So with that there are NO guarantees. 

I get all that and its why I am miserable and confused.

I guess the reason I am most confused is that this woman I met, it has NOTHING to do with her being thin or anything. She is not....but I find her beautiful and perfect and would never want to change her...where I think I have tried to change my wife to be something she is not.

And I know my wife longs for a husband who loves her unconditionally just the way she is for all her gifts, of which she has many.


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## peacem

I don't think there is much there to base a marriage on, being the mother to your children is not enough to keep a marriage alive. I think 7 years no sex is enough to cite unreasonable behaviour.

However, something I would just urge you to be cautious about. You are lonely and unhappy and probably horny for a 'normal' sex life. This may hinder your judgement somewhat. I would spend some time being single and working out what you really want from someone and life in general otherwise you may end up from frying pan to fire. (Being step dad to someone else's child rarely goes smoothly). I would also spend time in therapy working out your own issues before leaping into a 'soul mate' relationship. 

Good luck (and be careful about Church advice - shudder).


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## bagelboy

peacem. Thank you . This is wisdom. I have known her 6 months then we have been texting for 2 weeks and we have met alone once. Just holding hands and hugs.

we have thought of stopping and waiting and taking a break "this is going too fast"

I am seeing my P-Doc and my counselor February 5. 

I appreciate your input.

I am very horny....but honestly have not even thought about having sex with this woman. The hugging and holding and talking is amazing. 

Sex would only happen if we were divorced.....

All I know is there is something that has been dead in me for 27 years and is alive again. I feel like a kid.

We have both Id "no expectations. This may not work out. We should stop. we cant stop. I love you. she loves me. Confusion.


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## Lostinthought61

as they say in life there are no guarantees, but here is the deal your miserable now in this marriage...whether you find yourself miserable in the future out side of marriage is always a possibility but not a certainty...but being miserable in this marriage is a certainly...so i would put my money on the future with or with out this new person.


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## SentHereForAReason

I know you are looking for a woman's advice and I know why but you should be looking for all advice regardless of gender in this situation. These questions kind of remind me when I used to listen to Dr. Laura in the car while driving to different locations. You are looking for an excuse, for justification to do what your desires want you to do. The explaining your misery and embellishing on the woman's that you like to make it look like you are saving her and yourself from something.

NO

It's ok to start divorce on your end and go through that but common on man, don't try to justify and affair that is going to leave a lot more people hurt and disgusted with you and her. 'Man' up and get help for what you are missing and if you haven't already, give it at least one shot to see if you can salvage the marriage through effort, counseling an commitment. If it doesn't go anywhere, then you have your answer for sure but don't cheat. 

What you are feeling for the other woman is normal and there's probably a 2% chance that she's your actual soulmate. It always feels like that when people are in dire situations and find something that seemingly makes them happy again. This would happen with a million other woman not just her. Like I said, if you believe in not leaving stones unturned, give your marriage a fair shot, not through resentment and just being unhappy and hoping you finally get what you want. I'm sure there's probably things your wife feels resentful about as well. See if you can get help together, if it doesn't work out, move on but stay true to yourself and your family. It's not worth, not matter how high the rush is from the other woman to create a &hit ton of ill will and a lot of people that you will lose in the process for doing what you think is leading with your heart but essentially leading with selfishness. Selfishness isn't always bad, especially if you are a nice guy it keeps you more towards the center but you have people involved her that should be thought of if you make this blunder of a decision.

Break things off, if you guys are meant to be, you will find each other after both of your marriages are done in the courts and God's eyes.

You have sympathy from me but don't expect any if you go the dishonorable and self-centered route.


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## oldshirt

You are 25 years older now than when you first got with your wife; do you still need a mom?

You two sound like good friends and coparents; any reason you couldn't get along ok and continue to be cooperative coparents if you were divorced and living in different houses?

Any reason other than habit that you should be married to her?

Other than sharing the vacuuming and dishes, any reason to stay married?


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## oldshirt

And these feelings like a kid that you are getting with the OW is simply a hormone rush that everyone gets when they feel a strong attraction in hitting it off with someone.

If you were single and on the dating market, you could get out and date available women and could experience that again if and when you hit it off with someone that you are able to actually have a legitimate relationship with.


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## NickyT

As a woman who is slowly discovering that she is the much loved housemate/companion, I think I have a unique perspective on this:

You have stolen your wife's life from her. She gave it to you in good faith, and you have stolen it. You have cared for her, but not loved her as a woman should be loved. Grow up and grow a set.

If you want out of the marriage, get out independent of this new woman. Your wife has put 27 years into this marriage. Now you are going to leave her with the message that she was never quite good enough? Never quite hot enough? You are going to leave her wondering if the entire 27 years is a lie? Break her and let her lie in bed at night wondering when it began, when you started to roam, why she is not hot enough, what she did wrong, and imagining you having wild sex with the woman who does "do it" for you?

You selfish child.

If you want out, get out independent of the new woman. Leave the new woman and tell her you have to tidy up your life and that you OWE it to the woman who you took 27 years from and mother of your children to have a clean and amicable separation. If the other woman loves you, if she is worth her salt, she will back off and allow you to come to her with a clean slate.


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## Red Sonja

NickyT said:


> As a woman who is slowly discovering that she is the much loved housemate/companion, I think I have a unique perspective on this:
> 
> You have stolen your wife's life from her. She gave it to you in good faith, and you have stolen it. You have cared for her, but not loved her as a woman should be loved. Grow up and grow a set.


Like X 1000

It's the worst thing you can do to a woman. I know, I lived it.


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## Diana7

Why would you want to be with a woman who thinks its ok to cheat with another women's husband? You are right there are no guarantees and if she can do this with you then she can do it TO you. You have only met her ONCE, you know absolutely nothing about her. You are both still married so its wrong, period. Its adultery and if you still have a faith you know how serious and wrong that is.

Think of the children and the promises you made to your wife, she has done nothing wrong, nothing to deserve being lied to and cheated on like this. They need a full time, faithful, dedicated dad. You have responsibilities, you have a wife and children, so stop going after this woman and end it. Go to marriage counselling and work on the marriage and rebuilding your wife's self esteem. 
Believe me, your wife KNOWS that she isn't attractive enough for you or good enough for you, and who wants to have intimacy with a man who is discontent and doesn't even find you attractive?


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## Diana7

bagelboy said:


> peacem. Thank you . This is wisdom. I have known her 6 months then we have been texting for 2 weeks and we have met alone once. Just holding hands and hugs.
> 
> we have thought of stopping and waiting and taking a break "this is going too fast"
> 
> I am seeing my P-Doc and my counselor February 5.
> 
> I appreciate your input.
> 
> I am very horny....but honestly have not even thought about having sex with this woman. The hugging and holding and talking is amazing.
> 
> Sex would only happen if we were divorced.....
> 
> All I know is there is something that has been dead in me for 27 years and is alive again. I feel like a kid.
> 
> We have both Id "no expectations. This may not work out. We should stop. we cant stop. I love you. she loves me. Confusion.


Of course you can stop, you have only met her once for goodness sake. You are not free or available to have a relationship, you are a married man with children.


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## chillymorn69

7 years sexless

Time to make a move.


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## She'sStillGotIt

We're not your mothers, you don't need our permission.


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## bagelboy

chillymorn69 said:


> 7 years sexless
> 
> Time to make a move.


Why do you say this? Can you elaborate?


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## bagelboy

oldshirt said:


> You are 25 years older now than when you first got with your wife; do you still need a mom?
> 
> You two sound like good friends and coparents; any reason you couldn't get along ok and continue to be cooperative coparents if you were divorced and living in different houses?
> 
> Any reason other than habit that you should be married to her?
> 
> Other than sharing the vacuuming and dishes, any reason to stay married?



Well, when we are not fighting (at least 4-5x a week) we are good friends. Our kids are 23 and 21 and gone. Yes we can do that if divorced or living in different houses.

Your second question is really the one I have grappled with for a long time. Not alone...with a counselor. And with my wife in counseling together.

Out of our 25 years being married we literally have been in marriage counseling for 15+ years give or take. Weekly or bi-weekly. 3 different counselors.

Reasons to stay married? I made a list of pros and cons like my counselor wanted me to. There are A LOT of pros. On the cons list are
1. I have never found my wife physically attractive. From day one....except when she lost all that weight and worked out in the gym 5-6 days a week. She was MISERABLE the whole time. It wasn't in her heart and ....well it was a mess. That was year #1 of marriage.
2. She told me 7 years ago she was done with me and was only staying married to me because she made a commitment and doesn't believe in divorce. She said, " I am going to do what makes me happy and focus on myself. If you like me the way I am great if not then leave"
3. I can guarantee 100% I will never have sex again ever if I stay married to her. 

On the pros list I made for my counselor there were 18 items.


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## bagelboy

I DO want input from men and women.

i guess I came here because. ( I know.....I should ask my wife) but.....can a woman stay married knowing she will never have sex again and that her husband is just her friend and housemate.

She seems so happy. I mean since 7 years ago its true. She HAS focused on herself. She is overweight....but HAPPY. She loves her job. She smiles all the time and is jolly and travels (without me) for work and does exciting things. She goes to parties and social events without me. She has a ball.

She loves her home and yard and enjoys our pets.

Its like she found freedom and meanwhile I am dying inside for relationship. I guess I'm wondering if ALL women can do this or is this special to my wife or a select few.

I think she has moved on and focuses on everything but me and is happy.

I have never felt more alone in my life.


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## bagelboy

I've read about couples who stay married in a sexless marriage and are happy.....its a mutual thing

I believe its possible I guess. If you search around you can read about them.


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## bagelboy

oldshirt said:


> And these feelings like a kid that you are getting with the OW is simply a hormone rush that everyone gets when they feel a strong attraction in hitting it off with someone.
> 
> If you were single and on the dating market, you could get out and date available women and could experience that again if and when you hit it off with someone that you are able to actually have a legitimate relationship with.


You are right. Its hard for me to hear but you are right.


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## bagelboy

NickyT said:


> As a woman who is slowly discovering that she is the much loved housemate/companion, I think I have a unique perspective on this:
> 
> You have stolen your wife's life from her. She gave it to you in good faith, and you have stolen it. You have cared for her, but not loved her as a woman should be loved. Grow up and grow a set.
> 
> If you want out of the marriage, get out independent of this new woman. Your wife has put 27 years into this marriage. Now you are going to leave her with the message that she was never quite good enough? Never quite hot enough? You are going to leave her wondering if the entire 27 years is a lie? Break her and let her lie in bed at night wondering when it began, when you started to roam, why she is not hot enough, what she did wrong, and imagining you having wild sex with the woman who does "do it" for you?
> 
> You selfish child.
> 
> If you want out, get out independent of the new woman. Leave the new woman and tell her you have to tidy up your life and that you OWE it to the woman who you took 27 years from and mother of your children to have a clean and amicable separation. If the other woman loves you, if she is worth her salt, she will back off and allow you to come to her with a clean slate.


Thank you. This is so hard to hear but you are right. I am sobbing right now writing these words. I feel so good for you that you feel loved. EVERY WOMAN should be worshipped and adored by their husbands.

Everything you say is so true and hard to hear. Its like a punch in the gut.

You are right. I have done everything I can. I have tried SO HARD to change. I have gone to counseling for ALL 25 years of our marriage.

In our sessions we had to write down how we feel loved and how we could meet each other's top 5 needs.

Then we exchanged list.

I have taken her list that she gave me of her most top needs in marriage and have tried my hardest to meet them. She has my list. 

But I am believing its not about lists. I am believing she deserves someone who loves her just the way she is....just like any woman wants to be loved.

Yes you are right. She HAS put 27 years into this marriage. So have I. I have tried SO HARD every year, I have never given up.

But that is the part that is wrong. My wife said "if you have to try that hard to love me then it isn't real". 

I think you love someone and cherish them and then with that base WORK HARD on your marriage, through the tough times.

I GET that. So. Do I just keep "working" on myself and our marriage and 10 years from now things will be great?

I have not asked anything of my wife in a long time. I have set her free to be who she feels most comfortable being.

On the list of what is important to her our marriage and our relationship is behind self, career, our kids, the house, her friends. I am number 6 after those 5.

In my life she is number 1 before career, self, kids, house, friends. She said she was done with me 7 years ago.


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## bagelboy

stillfightingforus said:


> I know you are looking for a woman's advice and I know why but you should be looking for all advice regardless of gender in this situation. These questions kind of remind me when I used to listen to Dr. Laura in the car while driving to different locations. You are looking for an excuse, for justification to do what your desires want you to do. The explaining your misery and embellishing on the woman's that you like to make it look like you are saving her and yourself from something.
> 
> NO
> 
> It's ok to start divorce on your end and go through that but common on man, don't try to justify and affair that is going to leave a lot more people hurt and disgusted with you and her. 'Man' up and get help for what you are missing and if you haven't already, give it at least one shot to see if you can salvage the marriage through effort, counseling an commitment. If it doesn't go anywhere, then you have your answer for sure but don't cheat.
> 
> What you are feeling for the other woman is normal and there's probably a 2% chance that she's your actual soulmate. It always feels like that when people are in dire situations and find something that seemingly makes them happy again. This would happen with a million other woman not just her. Like I said, if you believe in not leaving stones unturned, give your marriage a fair shot, not through resentment and just being unhappy and hoping you finally get what you want. I'm sure there's probably things your wife feels resentful about as well. See if you can get help together, if it doesn't work out, move on but stay true to yourself and your family. It's not worth, not matter how high the rush is from the other woman to create a &hit ton of ill will and a lot of people that you will lose in the process for doing what you think is leading with your heart but essentially leading with selfishness. Selfishness isn't always bad, especially if you are a nice guy it keeps you more towards the center but you have people involved her that should be thought of if you make this blunder of a decision.
> 
> Break things off, if you guys are meant to be, you will find each other after both of your marriages are done in the courts and God's eyes.
> 
> You have sympathy from me but don't expect any if you go the dishonorable and self-centered route.


Yeah, I shouldn't have used that word "soulmate" . I actually hate that word. Don't know why I used it.

Is it self centered for my wife to say "I'm done and just going to please myself. I am done trying to please you"??

Since she made that decision she has been really happy.

You said give my marriage a fair shot. So when after 25 years of counseling....I mean, we have tried everything. Is that a fair shot? Or are you saying give it 5 more years, 10 more years of counseling?

I am angry with my wife because she literally said "I am DONE. Divorce me if you want. I am NOT divorcing you"

That is an exact quote.


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## Adelais

.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bagelboy said:


> Well, when we are not fighting (at least 4-5x a week) we are good friends. Our kids are 23 and 21 and gone. Yes we can do that if divorced or living in different houses.
> 
> Your second question is really the one I have grappled with for a long time. Not alone...with a counselor. And with my wife in counseling together.
> 
> Out of our 25 years being married we literally have been in marriage counseling for 15+ years give or take. Weekly or bi-weekly. 3 different counselors.
> 
> Reasons to stay married? I made a list of pros and cons like my counselor wanted me to. There are A LOT of pros. On the cons list are
> 1. I have never found my wife physically attractive. From day one....except when she lost all that weight and worked out in the gym 5-6 days a week. She was MISERABLE the whole time. It wasn't in her heart and ....well it was a mess. That was year #1 of marriage.
> 2. She told me 7 years ago she was done with me and was only staying married to me because she made a commitment and doesn't believe in divorce. She said, " I am going to do what makes me happy and focus on myself. *If you like me the way I am great if not then leave*"
> 3. I can guarantee 100% I will never have sex again ever if I stay married to her.
> 
> On the pros list I made for my counselor there were 18 items.


Leave. She dared you, Now do it. 

What makes you think she does not have a side action going on? Because she has not told you or you have not discovered? 7 years is a long time to assume she is not having sex with someone else.


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bagelboy said:


> Yeah, I shouldn't have used that word "soulmate" . I actually hate that word. Don't know why I used it.
> 
> Is it self centered for my wife to say "I'm done and just going to please myself. I am done trying to please you"??
> 
> Since she made that decision she has been really happy.
> 
> You said give my marriage a fair shot. So when after 25 years of counseling....I mean, we have tried everything. Is that a fair shot? Or are you saying give it 5 more years, 10 more years of counseling?
> 
> I am angry with my wife because she literally said "I am DONE. Divorce me if you want. I am NOT divorcing you"
> 
> That is an exact quote.


Do you have equal incomes ? Or is there a primary breadwinner?


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## Adelais

bagelboy said:


> I am angry with my wife because she literally said "I am DONE. Divorce me if you want. I am NOT divorcing you"
> 
> That is an exact quote.


If this is true and you aren't willing to work on your marriage anymore:

1. STOP seeing the other woman immediately

2. Divorce your wife

3. When your divorce is final, start seeing other women. 

**4. Once you are divorced, don't start seeing the current other woman again unless she is also divorced.


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## Primrose

Some people are just not compatible. You fell for her because she had a hot body at one time. Now she is 2.5 decades older and, while you may not find her bigger, older body hot like you did before she had children, she's too busy loving herself to care. 

If you are, indeed, being truthful about spending the entirety of your marriage in counseling, and you still can not find the love she deserves deep in you (side note- you know that love isn't always about passion and lust, right? Some times love is actually not liking your spouse at certain times but putting one foot in front of the other to get over these trying times because you made a promise; a vow).. then let her go. Let her go and find someone who deserves her. Or not. Maybe she'll decide she is too busy loving life to start all over again.

But the way you're doing it? Breaking your vows. Breaking your vows with a woman who thinks nothing of investing in another woman's man? That speaks volumes to her (and your) character. If she'll do it with you.. well, you know the rest to that statement. 

Just ask my ex-husband how his soulmate, that he left me for, is doing. Here's a tip- a year later, just 3 months after our divorce was finalized- she moved on to another man.


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## chillymorn69

bagelboy said:


> Why do you say this? Can you elaborate?


Either accept no sex for the rest of your life with her or pull the plug.

You say your so lonley ...if you guys are best friends why are you lonley?


Don't you mean your so horney!

What do you want? Do you want a free pass to cheat?

Go cheat then but I think it won't help it will just cause more heart ache for more people.


Man up and either accept a poor or nonexistant sex life or find a way to rekindle so sex with her or pull the plug and start fresh .

But cheating will almost be a guaranteed fail all the way around.


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## bagelboy

Araucaria said:


> If this is true and you aren't willing to work on your marriage anymore:
> 
> 1. STOP setting the other woman immediately
> 
> 2. Divorce your wife
> 
> 3. When your divorce is final, start seeing other women.
> 
> **4. Once you are divorced, don't start seeing the current other woman again unless she is also divorced.


Seems like the right path. The thought of leaving my wife.....its weird...we have so much history. most of BAD...

and yeah, I need to stop before it gets any farther and I need to make a decision.

That is why I made a special appointment with my counselor(who I have not seen since summer ) next Monday February 5. He probably will say everything you are all saying. I don't know.

I've lost all hope for my marriage. I need to end seeing the other woman. Its true. I can see it now. I divorce my wife, she divorces her husband, then she finds another guy.

Yeah. I worry about that. I feel bad for her. She is from India, arranged marriage. No love ever for the husband. He treated her as a possession all this time.

As soon as she got pregnant he left for the other coast and said he didn't want anything to do with being a father but no divorce.

So they see each other like twice a year at holidays. I don't understand that culture. Her parents just said..."you will marry this man" she had no choice.


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## bagelboy

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Do you have equal incomes ? Or is there a primary breadwinner?



I make $90,000 she makes $55,000. Why does that matter?

When we were dating I asked her what her dream was and she said "I want to stay home and make babies and be and at home mom"

So. I closed down a career path and made a choice that would allow her to do that. I do NOT regret that choice for one minute ever. It was the right thing to do.

But when she asked me what my "dream" was, or what was most important to me. Well....I wont go there.

I am happy we could raise our kids the way we did. I value that. She was a great mom. But has always, always put my kids ahead of me. From the time they were born until today.


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## bagelboy

I so appreciate you all being honest with me. Don't hold back. I can take it! I need to hear your wisdom and experiences.

It is sobering for me. I don't have people in my life I can talk to this about and I know a lot of divorced and re-marrieds but....only as acquaintances/co-workers.

So I have no real people to talk to. No buddies I hang with. That is why I took to this forum.


I also know that even though you don't say it in your post you DO realize my wife is not perfect. That she has a huge responsibility in deciding to not meet my needs. I hope you get that.

20 years of counseling hasn't changed anything. When we go to counseling she lies right to him. I say she is lying I look like a bully. Then everything is all my fault. When I meet with him alone he admits she is in the wrong and is not trying to improve our marriage. She goes in and says well I did, A, b, c and lies through her teeth.
Then he looks at me like "well, she did her part did you do yours"?

Counseling is useless if one of the partners is lying to the counselor.

Just sayin.


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## bagelboy

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Leave. She dared you, Now do it.
> 
> What makes you think she does not have a side action going on? Because she has not told you or you have not discovered? 7 years is a long time to assume she is not having sex with someone else.


?

I've thought of it but no way she could hide it. 

I think she would have already told me and left.

When she goes away on work she does travel with the same guy for the last 7 years. But his wife died of cancer, they are just friends and the job involves chaperoning kids so parents are there and she stays in her own hotel room.

That would take a lot of guts do to in front of parents and kids.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bagelboy said:


> I make $90,000 she makes $55,000. Why does that matter?
> 
> When we were dating I asked her what her dream was and she said "I want to stay home and make babies and be and at home mom"
> 
> So. I closed down a career path and made a choice that would allow her to do that. I do NOT regret that choice for one minute ever. It was the right thing to do.
> 
> But when she asked me what my "dream" was, or what was most important to me. Well....I wont go there.
> 
> I am happy we could raise our kids the way we did. I value that. She was a great mom. But has always, always put my kids ahead of me. From the time they were born until today.


I mention it as a factor in why people stay together in that sometimes iyt is economic including alimony laws.


----------



## bagelboy

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I mention it as a factor in why people stay together in that sometimes iyt is economic including alimony laws.


Oh, I see. I don't know anything about that stuff. I don't care about money. She can have ALL my money.


----------



## bagelboy

Here is another thing. Don't take this the wrong way though.

She was on birth control and it was wiping her out. So I got a vasectomy.

6 months later we were done having sex.

I don't mind getting the vasectomy....I just think its ironic.....thought it would work the other way around actually.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bagelboy said:


> ?
> 
> I've thought of it but no way she could hide it.
> 
> I think she would have already told me and left.
> 
> When she goes away on work she does travel with the same guy for the last 7 years. But his wife died of cancer, they are just friends and the job involves chaperoning kids so parents are there and she stays in her own hotel room.
> 
> That would take a lot of guts do to in front of parents and kids.


No, kids are asleep. Middle of the night hookup and back to room before dawn. Thousand ways to pull it off. 

I am not saying she is cheating but considering the state of your marriage, arguing 4- 5 times a week and no sex in 7 years. I'd have to wonder why she would be happy dancing around the house. Maybe someone else is making her happy and she sees no reason not to keep you around doing chores, paying mortgage, cutting the lawn etc. All she has to do is put up with some squabbles and does not have to sleep with you. 

Just thoughts.


----------



## bagelboy

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> No, kids are asleep. Middle of the night hookup and back to room before dawn. Thousand ways to pull it off.
> 
> I am not saying she is cheating but considering the state of your marriage, arguing 4- 5 times a week and no sex in 7 years. I'd have to wonder why she would be happy dancing around the house. Maybe someone else is making her happy and she sees no reason not to keep you around doing chores, paying mortgage, cutting the lawn etc. All she has to do is put up with some squabbles and does not have to sleep with you.
> 
> Just thoughts.


I hear you. No. If you knew her you would see differently. She is a glass is half full person. She makes lemonade with lemons in life.

She has the ability to turn off that part of her and say "oh well, thats done with he wont ever meet my needs so I guess Ill just get lost in my job, chores, yard, the silly computer game she plays all night on her phone.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

bagelboy said:


> I hear you. No. If you knew her you would see differently. She is a glass is half full person. She makes lemonade with lemons in life.
> 
> She has the ability to turn off that part of her and say "oh well, thats done with he wont ever meet my needs so I guess Ill just get lost in my job, chores, yard, the silly computer game she plays all night on her phone.


I personally know people who have met people via computer / phone games and hooked up.

TAM is many stories to that effect, Emotional and physical affairs.


----------



## oldshirt

bagelboy said:


> I hear you. No. If you knew her you would see differently. She is a glass is half full person. She makes lemonade with lemons in life.
> 
> She has the ability to turn off that part of her and say "oh well, thats done with he wont ever meet my needs so I guess Ill just get lost in my job, chores, yard, the silly computer game she plays all night on her phone.


Your denial runs deep. 

She turned off that part of her to *YOU* many years ago. You see her as asexual because she is asexual to you. But she may be quite sexual and passionate with others. 

Countless men who are have been in sexless marriages thought their wives did not have a sexual cell in their bodies only to find out that they were having wild monkey sex with someone(s) else. 

If your wife is this social and active and happy but yet argues and with you throughout the week and has told you to your face that she is done with you and is going to live her own life without regards to you - there is very very little chance she is not getting it elsewhere. 

If finding out that she is sexually active with someone(s) else will set you free and be that final push that you need to pull the plug on this sham of a marriage, then by all means hire a PI or hide a VAR in her car or anywhere else she may have private conversations and hack her phone and computers and you will have the truth. 

She probably isn't even trying to hide it very hard since you have been so gullible, so a PI would probably have your answer in a few days.


----------



## Sparta

Dude, come on now you came here for help... The people here have experienced numerous situations, that pertain to infidelity and a whole lot of other issues your relationship is textbook Wife having her needs taken care of with someone else. What you were doing (I believe) is like a built-in mechanism you’re probably not even aware of it, Self-preservation to protect yourself even though in the back of your mind you know that they could right. That this could be happening, just for the fact that it’s basic common sense. She’s always happy and all that, you think she has been celibate for seven years.?! Odds are that someone is meeting her needs... Or he could be multiple men are meeting her needs... either/or you need to get to the bottom of this very unfortunate situation and gather the information on your wife to find out so you can make the decision for yourself.?


----------



## Malaise

Red Sonja said:


> Like X 1000
> 
> It's the worst thing you can do to a woman. I know, I lived it.


And to a man as well. BTDT


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

I'm not your target audience, but I'm answering anyway.



bagelboy said:


> Out of our 25 years being married we literally have been in marriage counseling for 15+ years give or take. Weekly or bi-weekly. 3 different counselors.
> 
> Reasons to stay married? I made a list of pros and cons like my counselor wanted me to. There are A LOT of pros. On the cons list are
> 1. I have never found my wife physically attractive. From day one....except when she lost all that weight and worked out in the gym 5-6 days a week. She was MISERABLE the whole time. It wasn't in her heart and ....well it was a mess. That was year #1 of marriage.
> 2. She told me 7 years ago she was done with me and was only staying married to me because she made a commitment and doesn't believe in divorce. She said, " I am going to do what makes me happy and focus on myself. If you like me the way I am great if not then leave"
> 3. I can guarantee 100% I will never have sex again ever if I stay married to her.
> 
> On the pros list I made for my counselor there were 18 items.


So what? You can't look at the pros and cons and just go by which list is longer. The items are not granted equal weight. Obviously you don't think the pros outweigh the cons, or you wouldn't be feeling the dilemma, or have been in counselling for so long.

Personally, I think a marriage should contain the following:

Financial/domestic partnership - do you both have a good balance of providing for the marriage, with labour, income, and chores? are you responsible with what you spend?
lust - do you have mutually satisfying sex, in both quality and quantity?
liking - do you enjoy one another's company, and do you do things together that you both enjoy?
love - do you have that deep and abiding devotion to one another? do you both express it properly to be understood?
trust - do you believe each other's words, do your actions line up, are you reliable to one another? do you avoid having secrets?
respect - do you consider your partner's feelings, do you treat your partner like an equal? do you value each other's opinions?
emotional support - do you lift each other up, encourage one another's goals, provide comfort when needed?

Play with that list for a while, on both sides.

If you cheat on your wife, you're going to blow trust out of the water, even if she doesn't realize it for a while.

Right now, all you have with this woman you are crushing on is the beginnings of lust, and maybe exploring a couple of the others. The rest, you are filling in with your imagination. And remember, if she'll cheat with you, you'll never be able to fully develop the 'trust' portion of a good relationship.

I think you have been expecting counselling to magically turn your wife into a more sexually compatible woman with you, and fifteen years later, it has taken meeting this crush for you to finally figure out that it isn't going to happen.



bagelboy said:


> Is it self centered for my wife to say "I'm done and just going to please myself. I am done trying to please you"??
> 
> Since she made that decision she has been really happy.
> 
> You said give my marriage a fair shot. So when after 25 years of counseling....I mean, we have tried everything. Is that a fair shot? Or are you saying give it 5 more years, 10 more years of counseling?
> 
> I am angry with my wife because she literally said "I am DONE. Divorce me if you want. I am NOT divorcing you"
> 
> That is an exact quote.


So, I'm not sure what you're looking for here? Permission to cheat? You won't find it. Cheating is pretty much the worst thing you can do to someone. It will wreck your wife's self-esteem, ruin her faith in her own judgment of people, and create suspicion about the trustworthiness of everybody else in her life. Do you have any integrity? Keep it. Not to mention that any woman who would cheat with you isn't worth being in a long-term relationship with.

Permission to file for divorce? Sure, sounds like the right thing to do from what you've described. Clearly the marriage is dead, so go ahead. Get it done. Sounds like your wife isn't going to file, so it has to be you. Your children are grown so you don't have to worry about them, and it sounds like finances aren't an issue.

You came here looking for a guarantee that if you got divorced, this other woman you are crushing on is going to be waiting for you and turn out to be the perfect mate. Nobody can guarantee that. You want the security of having a new relationship waiting before you end the first one, so you don't have to spend any lonely time being single in between. But relationships aren't like job hunting, where it's wise to have the new one lined up before you put in your resignation for the old one and sometimes they overlap, or like car hunting, where you literally trade in the old car and drive away in the new one, or keep both. But your wife is not a possession you are tired of and want to replace. You are dealing with a human being here, with feelings, whom you claim to love and presumably respect. Spare her the torture of being cheated on and get cleanly divorced before pursuing any other relationship.


----------



## Diana7

You said, "Is it self centered for my wife to say "I'm done and just going to please myself. I am done trying to please you"??

I suspect that she desperately tried to be the size and shape and person she knew you wanted her to be. I also suspect that she knew you never loved or accepted her as she is, hence what she said. She eventually got fed up with trying to get you to love her as she was and gave up. Not surprising is it? Men are like a wife' mirror, if they dont find her attractive as she is they KNOW and its painful.


----------



## Satya

So if you divorce and start a relationship with this OW, if she gets fat, will we see you back here?

I think you need to look inward rather than continuously outward.


----------



## chillymorn69

I think its perfectly reasonable to divorce .

Large amount of weight gain.
Sex mismatch ,no sex in 7 years thats a big problem.
Kids are grown and out of the house.

Think of it as the next chapter of your life.

No shame in ending a friend only marriage !


If it were me I would be out of there sooner than later.


----------



## Mybranchofsinislove

I just found out about an affair my fiance was having. We were not sexless but close, and I know it was something in myself that made me less sexual, less attracted to him, possibly "bored" with life and myself. I felt unattractive and like I was getting old. He turned to porn and it escalated into an online sex talk with a friend of his I trusted. I had no idea it was going on. But when he got sloppy and I found other things that felt like cheating, he wanted help, he felt the ax dropping and just admitted the affair. Have you thought to admit the affair? I highly recommend it. I have cheated and been cheated on in a variety of ways but nothing was a wake up call the way this was. I love him and I almost lost him, he was lost in an addiction and habit that was destroying us, particularly our sex life. He wanted me all the time, I never felt unattractive to him, but it felt forced, his advances felt wrong. Either way, you should just tell her and see what happens, staying together, with the knowledge of your affair will eat you up eventually and destroy her worse with every passing g day you keep the secret.


----------



## oldshirt

Hopeful Cynic said:


> . Cheating is pretty much the worst thing you can do to someone. It will wreck your wife's self-esteem, ruin her faith in her own judgment of people, and create suspicion about the trustworthiness of everybody else in her life.
> .


I don't encourage adultery but this is a little too strong. 

She declared over 7 years ago that she no longer wants to have a sexual relationship with him and hasn't touched him since. She doesn't care. 

She is likely having sex with other people herself. 

If she were to find out he was getting down with someone else, her most likely response would be - "Thank goodness!" and then she would be relieved to not have him yearning for her. 

This would not be a typical case where someone wants to have a relationship with their partner and would thusly be hurt and devastated to find out their partner was cheating. 

She would no more feel hurt by him having sex with someone else than you would feel hurt to find out that fat, greasy, toothless person you have zero attraction to is having sex with someone else; a part of you is relieved that they won't be hitting on you. 

This so-called marriage was dead a long time ago, they just haven't got around to burying it yet. She will not be hurt by him scoring something else and will most likely be relieved on some level.


----------



## Blondilocks

You are angry that your wife (who had no choice in marrying you) has stopped doing the pick me dance and gotten on with her life. She is a big, fat size 8 and you find her physically unattractive and are snuggling up to another woman who is not a size 4 either. 

Why are you so hesitant to pull the plug on a marriage to a woman you never found attractive? No, your wife is not selfish - she is realistic. Expecting your wife to continually jump through hoops for crumbs is selfish. You may have abandonment issues from your adoption; but, your wife can't help you.

Get some male friends and maybe another man's wife won't be so tempting for you.


----------



## DoneIn

bagelboy said:


> Hah. No when you area married you are supposed to be in love, work through the tough stuff, but still have attraction, intimacy, touch, hugs, kisses, romance.
> 
> I am not looking for its okay. I know its not. I am maybe looking for exactly the advise you gave.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> If I hear you and agree then I need to stop this affair now. Divorce my wife. Then see if the woman and I are met to be with each other and whether she divorces her husband.
> 
> So with that there are NO guarantees.
> 
> I get all that and its why I am miserable and confused.
> 
> I guess the reason I am most confused is that this woman I met, it has NOTHING to do with her being thin or anything. She is not....but I find her beautiful and perfect and would never want to change her...where I think I have tried to change my wife to be something she is not.
> 
> And I know my wife longs for a husband who loves her unconditionally just the way she is for all her gifts, of which she has many.



My suggestion - opt for a separation. See how you feel after separating. Take time apart and let your limerance for your new affair settle out. Not sure I would want to get seriously involved with a woman who so easily took in a cheating, unhappy spouse. I would want a partner with higher morale and ethics than that. If she cheated with you, she may well cheat on you. She could have said "get a divorce and let's see..." but she didn't. Doesn't show good character. Why is her husband living across the country? There are reasons for everything.

Let you thoughts clear. Go get some good counseling and a male support group. You do not need to make this decision right now. You need to figure things out. God Bless you on your journey.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

oldshirt said:


> I don't encourage adultery but this is a little too strong.
> 
> She declared over 7 years ago that she no longer wants to have a sexual relationship with him and hasn't touched him since. She doesn't care.
> 
> She is likely having sex with other people herself.
> 
> If she were to find out he was getting down with someone else, her most likely response would be - "Thank goodness!" and then she would be relieved to not have him yearning for her.
> 
> This would not be a typical case where someone wants to have a relationship with their partner and would thusly be hurt and devastated to find out their partner was cheating.
> 
> She would no more feel hurt by him having sex with someone else than you would feel hurt to find out that fat, greasy, toothless person you have zero attraction to is having sex with someone else; a part of you is relieved that they won't be hitting on you.
> 
> This so-called marriage was dead a long time ago, they just haven't got around to burying it yet. She will not be hurt by him scoring something else and will most likely be relieved on some level.


So instead of cheating on her, he should ask her what she thinks about him having a girlfriend.

Because while she may not be having sex with him, cheating on her will still destroy the trust their marriage apparently still has.

Her own theoretical affair has nothing to do with his own integrity, just hers.


----------



## oldshirt

Hopeful Cynic said:


> So instead of cheating on her, he should ask her what she thinks about him having a girlfriend.
> 
> Because while she may not be having sex with him, cheating on her will still destroy the trust their marriage apparently still has.
> 
> Her own theoretical affair has nothing to do with his own integrity, just hers.


I would not suggest that he "ask" her what she thinks. What if she says no?

I think he should just decide what he wants to do, inform her of his decision and then do it. 

She didn't ask him for his thoughts on her shutting down the romantic/sexual component of their marriage - she simply informed him and then did it. 

She has declared no-interest in sex with him and has not touched him in 7 years. There for his sexuality and what he does with his genitalia is none of her business. 

He does not need to play "Mother-May-I?" with her. If he wants to get with other women, if she asks him why he is getting all spruced up, he can simply inform her he has a date. 

If she asks him why he is packing his bags, he can say he found a nice little apartment and that the lawyer should have the papers ready by next week. 

If she asks why he is binge-watching Netflix on the couch in his underwear all weekend, he can tell her it's because he wants to. 

A person only asks for other person's input if they are a spouse and there is a marriage in place. This marriage is dead and she is a roommate. 

You don't ask roommates if you can date and have sex with people. You just do it.


----------



## oldshirt

Let me put it this way; This is not a case of mismatched libidos or that they have different tastes in bed or that she doesn't want to do BJs anymore or won't indulge a fetish or something. 

She has told him to his face that she no longer wants to have any kind of sexual relationship with him at all and that she won't work on it or try to appease him in any way. 

And she has remained good to her word and has not touched him sexually in 7 years. 

She has there for waived any right to his sexual exclusivity and has no claim or say what he does sexually. He does not need to ask permission or get her buy-in to do whatever he wants sexually as it will have no effect or impact on her whatever he does with his junk. 

She is nothing more than a roommate with a marriage license. She has no other rights or claims to his sexuality or any say in his sexual activities. 

If he wants to sit on the couch and pine away for her and live a life of involuntary celibacy - that is his prerogative and his right. 

If he wants to divorce her and seek a full-service relationship elsewhere, that is also his prerogative and right. 

And if he wants to bang whoever will have him while they remain married and share the living costs and split the household chores, she has no say in that either and he does not need her permission, consent or buy-in. 

She tore up her Wife Card and waived all rights to his sexuality 7 years ago when she declared their sex life over and that she would no longer make any attempt to please him sexually. 

She has the right to not have a sex life with him. That is her prerogative and choice. 

But in so doing, she waives any rights to have any say in what he does sexually.


----------



## Blondilocks

What does 'romance' look like when a man doesn't find his wife physically attractive?

Does he sidle up to her and tell her she isn't as ugly as she used to be?

Does he whisper in her ear that she doesn't sweat much for a fat girl?

Does he compliment the tent she's wearing?

Maybe, after a week of her enthusiastically servicing him, he takes her to Golden Corral so she can pig out.


----------



## Livvie

I want to make an observation: she gained 25 pounds up from a size 4. Not 100, not 50, but 25. If so, this woman is not huge by any stretch of the imagination. 

OP since your standards are so high, I hope you are and remain super slender your whole life, or you are a hypocrite.


----------



## Blondilocks

Off topic - good to see your name, Lila!


----------



## bagelboy

So many different opinions and input here.
Very sobering 
I came looking for advise and perspective that is objective....because I am not being objective..And these answers are giving me that.
I think in on line forums miscommunication can occur.

I.e. I think I've mis-communicated some things..So I will clarify later

I'm away traveling(not with OW, not with wife) with no computer. Too hard to type replies and thoughts from my phone. I'll do that tonight.


----------



## Blondilocks

Go back to your very first post in 2008. Have you learned nothing? 

Here it is in a nutshell: it isn't your wife's job to make you feel better about yourself by twisting herself into a pretzel.

Ten years ago you were complaining that she was starting to get wrinkles on her face (she was 46 years old!). In addition to not working out 5 days a week and eating a diet that you didn't approve of. You claimed you didn't want a trophy wife.

You are entitled to marry whatever type of person floats your boat. You are not entitled to make your mate miserable because they don't meet your quota for whatever bug you have up your butt that day. 

You made her so miserable that she wrote you off and, now, you're miserable because your puppet cut the strings.
You have no friends and have essentially lost your wife. I feel sorry for you. 

Happiness comes from within - your mate can not provide it. Stop blaming her for your crap life.


----------



## Prodigal

Blondilocks said:


> Happiness comes from within - your mate can not provide it. Stop blaming her for your crap life.


If I could give this one million likes, I would.


----------



## Prodigal

And just to add @bagelboy: You are an unhappy, whiny man. Stop whining, strap on a pair, and divorce your wife. Your wife sounds like a great gal. I applaud her for getting on with her life and basically kicking you to the curb.


----------



## Blondilocks

I can guarantee that some guy will be only too happy to take her off of your hands.


----------



## bagelboy

Blondilocks said:


> I can guarantee that some guy will be only too happy to take her off of your hands.


I'm praying for that. Someone who would love and cherish her just as she is right now, without changing one molecule 

She is full of life and joy, amazing at her job....I could change my mind, but now at 8:43 at this moment I truly believe we married for the wrong reasons. 

I am changed since 10 years ago. My meds are like miracle drugs. My wife would be the first to tell you.

I have given up trying to ask her to be someone she is not. She is happier now than ever.
The reason for me being here again is...how can a woman be so happy when we have no physical relationship at all?


----------



## oldshirt

bagelboy said:


> I'm praying for that. Someone who would love and cherish her just as she is right now, without changing one molecule
> 
> She is full of life and joy, amazing at her job....I could change my mind, but now at 8:43 at this moment I truly believe we married for the wrong reasons.
> 
> I am changed since 10 years ago. My meds are like miracle drugs. My wife would be the first to tell you.
> 
> I have given up trying to ask her to be someone she is not. She is happier now than ever.
> The reason for me being here again is...how can a woman be so happy when we have no physical relationship at all?



Because she does have a physical relationship(s).

You just have your head in the sand to that.


----------



## tom72

bagelboy said:


> I'm praying for that. Someone who would love and cherish her just as she is right now, without changing one molecule
> 
> She is full of life and joy, amazing at her job....I could change my mind, but now at 8:43 at this moment I truly believe we married for the wrong reasons.
> 
> I am changed since 10 years ago. My meds are like miracle drugs. My wife would be the first to tell you.
> 
> I have given up trying to ask her to be someone she is not. She is happier now than ever.
> The reason for me being here again is...how can a woman be so happy when we have no physical relationship at all?


Could be getting the physical relationship somewhere else?

She learnt she doesn't need you to be happy?


----------



## bagelboy

I just it off with her tonight.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

??


----------



## MAJDEATH

Prodigal said:


> And just to add @bagelboy: You are an unhappy, whiny man. Stop whining, strap on a pair, and divorce your wife. Your wife sounds like a great gal. I applaud her for getting on with her life and basically kicking you to the curb.


I know the OP asked for advice from the ladies, but my god. Do you really believe that this W, or any W for that matter, is a "great gal" for no sex with her husband for 7 yrs and puts the kids interests before her husbands? When did it become acceptable to believe that a happy, healthy marriage includes no physical intimacy ever? What if he decided to not pay the mortgage for 7 yrs because he "just doesn't feel like it" anymore? Is that OK, or would reasonable people say that's crazy? If you want to enjoy living in a house you have to pay for it. Same for marriage.

Don't get me wrong, I rarely advocate for D. But a separation may be in order to see if a new sexless roommate might be a better option.


----------



## Blondilocks

bagelboy said:


> I'm praying for that. Someone who would love and cherish her just as she is right now, without changing one molecule
> 
> She is full of life and joy, amazing at her job....I could change my mind, but now at 8:43 at this moment I truly believe we married for the wrong reasons.
> 
> I am changed since 10 years ago. My meds are like miracle drugs. My wife would be the first to tell you.
> 
> I have given up trying to ask her to be someone she is not. She is happier now than ever.
> The reason for me being here again is...how can a woman be so happy when we have no physical relationship at all?


She can be so happy because she was constantly criticized for 18 years about her body. Now, she doesn't have to subject herself to your scrutiny and can enjoy the rest life has to offer. She is pain free.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## bagelboy

bagelboy said:


> I just it off with her tonight.


I just broke it off with her last night.

Misspelled


----------



## bagelboy

notmyrealname4 said:


> Yeah, but he isn't attracted to her and doesn't enjoy her body type; so after a while, why is she gonna want sex with him?


This is actually more to the point.

, and now that I look at my old thread. That was TEN YEARS AGO.

Maybe this has been 10 years. I have lost track.

7-10 years ago We tried to make love. I could not perform. She asked why . I told her. She asked me what I wanted.

She said "check back with me in 6 months" I did. She said "I am done, decided to not go there anymore"

So this is not HER saying no to sex this was US...me waiting for her or me to change or both...it didnt happen. She stopped and moved on.

Since that original post 10 years ago I have lost 28 pounds, I am short so means jeans dont fit me.

I have wear a womens size 4 short jean. I am 53 years old and have a 33 inch waist and lift weights and bike and eat at ketogenic diet.

Its not like I am not overweight and being a hypocrite.


----------



## Blondilocks

I don't want to hurt your feelings; but, your waist is too big for your height.


----------



## notmyrealname4

.


----------



## bagelboy

Blondilocks said:


> I don't want to hurt your feelings; but, your waist is too big for your height.


Feelings not hurt at all. That was my measurement a while ago. All I know is my womens size 4s slim jeans are a little baggy.

My waist is flat, abs showing, I weigh 163, mostly muscle, body fat below 15%. Medium Slim fit shirt.

NONE of that matters to this thread.

Feelings not hurt at all.


----------



## bagelboy

notmyrealname4 said:


> I hope both of you will have a much happier life, going on from here.


Thank you.


----------



## Kerry

bagelboy said:


> I think I was looking for a "mom", she was looking for someone to enable (she is adult child of alcoholic dad and struggles with boundaries...always looking to rescue someone)


I think all your answers are right here.

You know how people who win the lottery end up in the same financial position a few years after they receive the winnings? They never learned how to manage money before, or after, having it.. Have you learned how to create healthy relationships?

I ask because it seems like you're creating a similar situation with this new person in that she's rescuing you from your loneliness and bad decisions (or lack of decisiveness). If she knows you're married and is willing to have a fling with you, what kind of person is she, really? If you say she has good morals, I suggest it's because she's rescuing. A solid woman would tell you to work it out with your wife first and then she'll consider it.

A happy relationship is when two whole, happy people come together.

Get your life together, be the person YOU like and respect and find someone who's done the same.


----------



## bagelboy

Kerry said:


> I think all your answers are right here.
> 
> You know how people who win the lottery end up in the same financial position a few years after they receive the winnings? They never learned how to manage money before, or after, having it.. Have you learned how to create healthy relationships?
> 
> I ask because it seems like you're creating a similar situation with this new person in that she's rescuing you from your loneliness and bad decisions (or lack of decisiveness). If she knows you're married and is willing to have a fling with you, what kind of person is she, really? If you say she has good morals, I suggest it's because she's rescuing. A solid woman would tell you to work it out with your wife first and then she'll consider it.
> 
> A happy relationship is when two whole, happy people come together.
> 
> Get your life together, be the person YOU like and respect and find someone who's done the same.


Great input
I don't know if saw post above. But we ended it.

She is Indian. She asked for a divorce, again, 4 months ago. The husband so no he will not grant it.

I arranged marriages I guess there are "rules". I don't know if this is relevant to your question. She believes she will always stay married and divorce is not an option for her. It would bring shame to her family. I guess its complicated.

He is trying to move back but she already told him she is done with him.

We agreed that we went too fast, it is not right. Only if he divorced her and I divorced my wife THEN maybe.


----------



## Prodigal

MAJDEATH said:


> I know the OP asked for advice from the ladies, but my god. Do you really believe that this W, or any W for that matter, is a "great gal" for no sex with her husband for 7 yrs and puts the kids interests before her husbands?


Didn't say that and you didn't read the entire thread. His wife is a great gal because she refused to buy into his crap. And crap it is. He admitted he hasn't been attracted to his wife for years. Jeesh!


----------



## bagelboy

Talked to my wife tonight.

Bottom line.

1. She said she loves me, she wants to have sex with me, that I am the one who doesn't, that she wants me to touch her and hold her.

2. When I asked her why she is happy and if she is getting her needs met somewhere else she laughed and said "are you kidding me?" She said if that were the case she would have left me a long time ago.

3. When I asked her why does she stay with me she said "I made a promise to God "For better or worse" I am not leaving. If you want to divorce me that is your choice but I will not divorce you.

She doesn't remember saying she didn't want to have sex, that she is "done trying" and saying "take it or leave it"

So there you have it.

That's where things are. I have a lot of thinking to do. 

The OW still wants me but said its up to me and to go make a decision and figure it out.

Thanks for all your input. I am confused because there is such a varying of opinion and suggestions and thoughts here. That is GOOD. Gives me more to think about.

I REALLY appreciate the responses that I sense are really objective. There are some that are obviously bringing their own anger and pain they have experienced and I see that in there responses. That is okay too. 

So anyway. Thank you so much for this thread. It helped me to

1. End the relationship with the OW. By the way when I told her we need to stop our affair she was offended saying it wasn't an affair. I didn't understand that but that's okay. We haven't had sex. We have been kissing and holding and texting. I consider that an affair. I could be wrong.

But its over.

2. Seek council

3. talk to my wife and get clarity. I believe her. I have no clue why she should want to stay with a man who doesn't touch her, hold her or want to have sex with her. I told her that. That is when she made the comment "I made a promise to God For better or worse".

So I'm still confused. 

Gotta go figure some things out.


----------



## Adelais

So why don't you take off your women's size 4 skinny jeans and ravish your faithful wife? YOU rejected her, and she has remained faithful to you. Don't you even appreciate that??

Tell her about your affair (yes, talking intimately, wanting to marry someone, kissing and hugging are having an affair). Maybe then she will divorce you.

Sheesh, you make me angry!


----------



## Diana7

Sounds like you have a good wife, and please stay right away from the OW and stop any contact with her. Focus your energy on you wife and marriage not on cheating.


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

bagelboy said:


> Talked to my wife tonight.
> 
> Bottom line.
> 
> 1. She said she loves me, she wants to have sex with me, that I am the one who doesn't, that she wants me to touch her and hold her.
> 
> 2. When I asked her why she is happy and if she is getting her needs met somewhere else she laughed and said "are you kidding me?" She said if that were the case she would have left me a long time ago.
> 
> 3. When I asked her why does she stay with me she said "I made a promise to God "For better or worse" I am not leaving. If you want to divorce me that is your choice but I will not divorce you.
> 
> She doesn't remember saying she didn't want to have sex, that she is "done trying" and saying "take it or leave it"
> 
> So there you have it.
> 
> That's where things are. I have a lot of thinking to do.


So she isn't non-sexual, but has walled it off somehow. Women are apparently much better at doing that than men are. She's done trying to meet the physical ideal you are attracted to, as it made her unhappy, and because you haven't touched her since, she assumes you don't want sex at all.

I can't fathom how this didn't come out in counselling years ago. You should maybe try a different counsellor.

And have you thought that maybe you weren't very skilled in bed? Or that your distaste for her appearance was obvious to her? It's probably easier for her to set sex aside if the experience wasn't all that great for her in the first place.



bagelboy said:


> So anyway. Thank you so much for this thread. It helped me to
> 
> 1. End the relationship with the OW. By the way when I told her we need to stop our affair she was offended saying it wasn't an affair. I didn't understand that but that's okay. We haven't had sex. We have been kissing and holding and texting. I consider that an affair. I could be wrong.


It's an affair. She's just playing with semantics to make herself feel better. Kissing, holding hands, speaking intimately, those are things you should only be doing with your spouse.



bagelboy said:


> 2. Seek council
> 
> 3. talk to my wife and get clarity. I believe her. I have no clue why she should want to stay with a man who doesn't touch her, hold her or want to have sex with her. I told her that. That is when she made the comment "I made a promise to God For better or worse".
> 
> So I'm still confused.
> 
> Gotta go figure some things out.


I'm not sure how that can possibly be confusing. For religious reasons, she doesn't believe in divorce. She is faithfully upholding her vows, to the point of accepting a sexless relationship, until she dies. Some people have integrity like that.


----------



## bagelboy

Araucaria said:


> So why don't you take off your women's size 4 skinny jeans and ravish your faithful wife? YOU rejected her, and she has remained faithful to you. Don't you even appreciate that??
> 
> 
> Tell her about your affair (yes, talking intimately, wanting to marry someone, kissing and hugging are having an affair). Maybe then she will divorce you.
> 
> Sheesh, you make me angry!


Spilled the beans last night.
I appreciate she has remained faithful to me
I just cant get over the 25 pounds she has put on and the huge stomach that hangs over her new size 14 pants. And the rolls of fat on her back.

She told me get counseling, she is not changing. And I can do whatever I want. She said she is happy since "moving on". 

She reiterated that she will not divorce me and to go for it with OW if I want but then im out. She gets house, dogs...etc.

And regarding another post above she said she just has decided to find happiness in her job, video games, food, and the 1/2 bottle of wine she drinks every night.

Regarding skills in bed. I have skills beyond measure....that's not the issue....the issue i s why would she even want to have sex with me when her body image is so low, she feels rejected, I can't get it up with her.

She believes that somehow through counseling and a decision I need to work it through and decide.


----------



## Tiggy!

She's gone from size 4 to size 14 with 25 pounds?
I read another thread of yours, didn't she lose the weight after you got engaged?


----------



## bagelboy

Ok 6 maybe back then. She has size 12-14 now depends. I'm just guessing weight, maybe 30? Weight is not issue. I'm 163 but a lot is muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat. She has lost all the muscle she had.
Yes. I would post a pic. Obviously cant.
She looked like model. 
One day in the gym a man stopped her and said "I'm not trying to be creepy, I see your wedding ring. Just wanted to say you are the most beautiful women in this gym."


----------



## Tiggy!

So you dated her and got engaged to her before she lost weight, why did you get engaged to her if she wasn't what you're physically attracted to?


----------



## Don't Panic

bagelboy said:


> Spilled the beans last night.
> I appreciate she has remained faithful to me
> I just cant get over the 25 pounds she has put on and the huge stomach that hangs over her new size 14 pants. And the rolls of fat on her back.
> 
> She told me get counseling, she is not changing. And I can do whatever I want. She said she is happy since "moving on".
> 
> She reiterated that she will not divorce me and to go for it with OW if I want but then im out. She gets house, dogs...etc.
> 
> And regarding another post above she said she just has decided to find happiness in her job, video games, food, and the 1/2 bottle of wine she drinks every night.
> *
> Regarding skills in bed. I have skills beyond measure....that's not the issue....*the issue i s why would she even want to have sex with me when her body image is so low, she feels rejected, I can't get it up with her.
> 
> She believes that somehow through counseling and a decision I need to work it through and decide.


Riiiiiight. It's been 7 years. Complete with ED. And your prowess in bed is beyond measure how exactly??


----------



## Blondilocks

Advice will be more useful if you can be accurate in the information you provide. How tall is your wife and how much does she weigh? It's obvious that you know nothing about women's clothing sizes. And, the way you portray yourself gives one the mental image of an orangutan (all chest and toothpick legs).

It really doesn't matter at this point because you want a woman who fits your narrow definition of beauty and can not love her unless she does. Let your wife go and find your definition of beauty and pray to God that she has already gone through menopause or doesn't become ill and the drugs cause weight gain. Because things change!


----------



## bagelboy

Don't Panic said:


> Riiiiiight. It's been 7 years. Complete with ED. And your prowess in bed is beyond measure how exactly??


I don't have ED guess you will just have to trust me on that one.


----------



## bagelboy

How tall is your wife and how much does she weigh? 

Why is that relevant? 

It's obvious that you know nothing about women's clothing sizes. 
Why is it obvious? 


And, the way you portray yourself gives one the mental image of an orangutan (all chest and toothpick legs).

Neck 14.5"
Biceps 14"
Chest 39"
Waist 32/33
Quads 23
Calves 14.5
I bike 20-30 miles a day 4-5 days a week

None of that matters


It really doesn't matter at this point because you want a woman who fits your narrow definition of beauty and can not love her unless she does.

The OW is bigger than my wife.


----------



## bagelboy

Tiggy! said:


> So you dated her and got engaged to her before she lost weight, why did you get engaged to her if she wasn't what you're physically attracted to?



We dated once. We're just friends after that in bible Study
1.5 years later was our second date after she got contacts, grew her hair out, started losing some weight, bought a new wardobe. Etc. 
She did that all on her own for herself not me.

Her friends told her not to marry me.
We were in a conservative Christian church where I had mentors and men in my life saying
"Looks are fleeting dontg base this on looks trust that God will change you since it seems you two are in sinc on every other level "
I was young and "trusted God he would change me"
You wouldx have to ask my wife why she married me. She has said "I should have listened to my friends"


----------



## Don't Panic

bagelboy said:


> This is actually more to the point.
> 
> , and now that I look at my old thread. That was TEN YEARS AGO.
> 
> Maybe this has been 10 years. I have lost track.
> 
> 7-10 years ago We tried to make love. I could not perform. She asked why . I told her. She asked me what I wanted.
> 
> She said "check back with me in 6 months" I did. She said "I am done, decided to not go there anymore"
> 
> So this is not HER saying no to sex this was US...me waiting for her or me to change or both...it didnt happen. She stopped and moved on.
> 
> Since that original post 10 years ago I have lost 28 pounds, I am short so means jeans dont fit me.
> *
> I have wear a womens size 4 short jean. I am 53 years old and have a 33 inch waist and lift weights and bike and eat at ketogenic diet.
> 
> Its not like I am not overweight and being a hypocrite.*


You asked for a "wife's/woman's input"....

Slooooooooowly peeling off your size 4 petite lady jeans would be a libido-killer for me - a wife/woman. But I really do suspect that you know this. 

Carry on Bagelboy.


----------



## bagelboy

Don't Panic said:


> You asked for a "wife's/woman's input"....
> 
> Slooooooooowly peeling off your size 4 petite lady jeans would be a libido-killer for me - a wife/woman. But I really do suspect that you know this.
> 
> Carry on Bagelboy.


They just look jeans. Unless I told you how would you know. Just levis straight jeans. 

Find me some men's jeans with a 28" inseam I would be happy to wear them. ")

No one at work has come and said "are you wearing women's jeans?"

They just say you look nice today.

Is this this thread really going to focus on my clothes. 

Might as well go all the way.

I wear medium slim fit Untuckit shirts with my jeans and brown leather shoes.

Any other info you need?

My wife thinks I look great and compliments me every day. She totally understands and gets it. No problem with her.

I compliment her on clothes too.


----------



## turnera

Read these and then come back and tell us what you think:
Anatomy of an Affair - The Chemistry of Love - Marriage AdvocatesMarriage Advocates

?Flame Addiction?: The Neuroscience of Infidelity » Brain World

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/love-doc/200907/love-lust-and-the-brain

https://affaircare.com/articles/what-is-disloyal-fog-2/


----------



## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> TMy wife thinks I look great and compliments me every day. She totally understands and gets it. No problem with her.
> 
> I compliment her on clothes too.


I'm confused here. You previously said your wife looks very unattractive with her "huge" stomach flopping over the top of her size 14 pants. Uh, doesn't sound like a compliment to me.


----------



## bagelboy

Prodigal said:


> I'm confused here. You previously said your wife looks very unattractive with her "huge" stomach flopping over the top of her size 14 pants. Uh, doesn't sound like a compliment to me.


Me - That sweater looks nice, those shoes are cool , I like those earrings. Oh is that a new coat. It looks great. Your haircut looks nice

Her - I like that shirt. That suit looks great on you, those are nice jeans. I like those shoes. I like your haircut

Those are called compliments. We make them to each other on a regular basis. ITs the same thing roommates co-habituating in a non sexual relationship would say to each other.


You are overthinking this.

I have NEVER ONCE in my marriage told my wife "Your huge stomach flopping over your pants is really unattractive to me". I told my counselor and wrote it here and (yes, I do have friends) have talked the my friends about this stuff.

She has said to me "I know I'm fat, take it or leave it". THAT is a quote.


----------



## Prodigal

I fail to understand why you are so defensive. I merely asked for clarification. You stated here that you find her body unattractive. I just want to make sure I am understanding this, based on what you are telling us. From what you are posting, you are saying you have not told your wife how you feel. So you talk behind her back to friends. You also let lots of total strangers in cyberspace know you find her unattractive. And quit with the splitting hairs. Whether you said it to her or to someone else, you POSTED/SAID it here. Comprende?

No, I am NOT overthinking this at all. It's no skin off my nose what you choose to do with your sexless marriage. Your life. Your choice. Maybe you should stop your bellyaching here and just lay it all out to your wife and tell HER how you feel. She's living her life as she wishes. You can have it out with her, divorce her, stay with her and suck it up, or do whatever the hell you want to do. Oh, yeah, that's right ... you started playing slap-and-tickle with another woman.


----------



## bagelboy

Prodigal fair enough. You are right.
Yes, my wife knows exactly how I feel. Sorry if that was unclear. She knows x 1000. That's the point. She asked me a long time ago to stop going there and I did.
In counseling of course we dealt with it...millions of times. 
Did I mention we talked for 2.5 hours last night.?

Yes, for 3 times, 30 minutes each , I touched, cuddled, then kisses another woman. But as I wrote above. It's over.
So 1.5 hours of being with her, and yes lots of texting.

Can you copy and paste something I wrote that would be considered bellyaching?


----------



## As'laDain

@bagelboy, just start having sex with your wife every night. well, one caveate: tell her that your kink is to see her have an orgasm. get some toys and have her play with herself(or have her show you how she likes it) until she climaxes, and THEN have sex with her.

you would be surprised at how much that would change things.


----------



## Satya

She's telling you she's not going to change. Believe her.

If you want there to be change it'll have to begin with you.


----------



## Diana7

bagelboy said:


> Ok 6 maybe back then. She has size 12-14 now depends. I'm just guessing weight, maybe 30? Weight is not issue. I'm 163 but a lot is muscle. Muscle weighs more than fat. She has lost all the muscle she had.
> Yes. I would post a pic. Obviously cant.
> She looked like model.
> One day in the gym a man stopped her and said "I'm not trying to be creepy, I see your wedding ring. Just wanted to say you are the most beautiful women in this gym."


You do not go up 5 or even 4 sizes with only 25 lbs. 2 maybe at a push. Size 12 isn't fat, its way below the average size for women. 
We ALL change physically as we gat older and many women put on some weight with children. Its no excuse to find someone else and cheat. I suspect that she got so tired of not being wanted and accepted, and I don't blame her, it must have been awful.
Still she has given you a choice, you can be unfaithful and leave and lose the home, or you can be faithful. There is no reason why she should have to lose her home and pets. Your love for her is conditional.


----------



## Diana7

bagelboy said:


> Me - That sweater looks nice, those shoes are cool , I like those earrings. Oh is that a new coat. It looks great. Your haircut looks nice
> 
> Her - I like that shirt. That suit looks great on you, those are nice jeans. I like those shoes. I like your haircut
> 
> Those are called compliments. We make them to each other on a regular basis. ITs the same thing roommates co-habituating in a non sexual relationship would say to each other.
> 
> 
> You are overthinking this.
> 
> I have NEVER ONCE in my marriage told my wife "Your huge stomach flopping over your pants is really unattractive to me". I told my counselor and wrote it here and (yes, I do have friends) have talked the my friends about this stuff.
> 
> She has said to me "I know I'm fat, take it or leave it". THAT is a quote.


That's because you have made her feel fat. She is fed up with having to be something she isn't and only being accepted when she is a very skinny size 4. After many years of that she has had enough. I hope that she finds a man who will love and desire her as she is, that's if you haven't put her off men for life.


----------



## bagelboy

Satya said:


> She's telling you she's not going to change. Believe her.
> 
> If you want there to be change it'll have to begin with you.


I do believe her. Have you read any of this thread?
I agree I need to change. Agree 100%


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

bagelboy said:


> I have NEVER ONCE in my marriage told my wife "Your huge stomach flopping over your pants is really unattractive to me". I told my counselor and wrote it here and (yes, I do have friends) have talked the my friends about this stuff.
> 
> She has said to me "I know I'm fat, take it or leave it". THAT is a quote.


Your specific size and weight and fitness are irrelevant. Hers are too, since she's happy the way she is. You are fit and she is fat and you are both happy with your own shapes. Obviously you aren't happy with hers, but you've stayed with her anyway, without telling her you find her unattractive and don't want to have sex with her. And now you are complaining to us that you really want to have a sexual relationship, to the point that you were considering cheating.

She's given you clear direction that she isn't interested in losing weight. Nor is she interested in divorcing you, despite the lack of sex. She said to take her or leave her. Your choices are to have sex with her despite your lack of attraction, or to initiate divorce. But you aren't doing either. Why not? What do you actually want to have happen?

Are you waiting for her to magically lose weight or something?

You can only control you. Here are your choices, some more ethical than others.

Stay married and miserable and sexless. This is the inertia non-choice you are currently trapped in.

Stay married, and have sex with her even though you find her unattractive. She seems willing.

Stay married and see if she would be agreeable to making it an open marriage so you can get a girlfriend for your sexual needs.

Stay married and cheat on your wife.

Get divorced.

You need individual counselling to figure out why you have so much trouble making decisions. Are you an indecisive person in general? Do you really want to pick the divorce option but you're too afraid to look like the bad guy?


----------



## Satya

So @bagelboy, what is your plan?


----------



## 269370

I find it strange she is not leaving you after you told her about your affair and all the other stuff. 
Could her staying with you be perhaps financially motivated?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bagelboy

Satya said:


> So @bagelboy, what is your plan?


I think its time for ACTION rather than Talking/Posting. I am seeing my counselor alone on Monday

I have some decision to MAKE

1. I married the right person and stay and make changes in my life.
2. I didn't marry the right person but because of so much history and building a life....I stay and make changes. Maybe if I made changes this marriage can be repaired and go somewhere?
3. I didn't marry the right person and I separate or divorce and deal with those consequences

I do believe my wife has work to do. She is NOT doing the "homework" our counselor gave her. But that is her decision.


Then there is the other aspect/pattern I have got into that is the reason I dont make progress.

example. Last night she had to go back into work. I worked all day then worked my second job. Then I cleaned the whole kitchen. Took me one hour. That is really high on her love language list. So this showed love to her. She was REALLY thankful.

My problem right now is that I am selfish. I did it for her without condition....but I admit after she came in I have this evil warped person inside me saying

"Okay now what are you going to do for me"? i.e. diet/workout or buy more feminine clothes.

I know its bad. Its where I am at. So time to get to work.


----------



## Rowan

Hopeful Cynic said:


> She's given you clear direction that she isn't interested in losing weight. Nor is she interested in divorcing you, despite the lack of sex. She said to take her or leave her. Your choices are to have sex with her despite your lack of attraction, or to initiate divorce. But you aren't doing either. Why not? What do you actually want to have happen?
> 
> Are you waiting for her to magically lose weight or something?



Interestingly, he's said that his OW is actually _bigger _than his wife. He's also mentioned that he's loved being close to the OW, talking, hugging, and holding hands, but that he never considered having sex with her because that was enough. So, honestly, I'm pretty sure this entire situation has as much to do with his own issues as it ever did with his wife's weight. 

His wife's too fat, even though his OW is fatter? He's so horny, but won't have sex with his wife and isn't even having sex with his OW? I can totally see why his wife might have just decided she was done chasing him and twisting herself into a pretzel trying to make him happy at the expense of her own self-respect. To be frank, I wouldn't waste my life trying to change someone's mind after they've been clear they don't love me and don't want me. How much of that should anyone be expected to take before they just stop jumping through the hoops, for their own sanity? His wife has made her own life, after he'd been clear she was never going to measure up and that he wasn't interested in her as she is. 

And, let's not forget that this seems to have been an arranged marriage. She didn't choose him any more than he likely chose her. But that also may mean that she really might feel limited in her options for leaving. Let him file for the divorce if he must. So long as it doesn't cause irreparable harm to her because of any existing cultural or religious traditions their families might hold.


----------



## Blondilocks

It's about control. It's always been about control.


----------



## bagelboy

Rowan said:


> Interestingly, he's said that his OW is actually _bigger _than his wife. He's also mentioned that he's loved being close to the OW, talking, hugging, and holding hands, but that he never considered having sex with her because that was enough. So, honestly, I'm pretty sure this entire situation has as much to do with his own issues as it ever did with his wife's weight.
> 
> His wife's too fat, even though his OW is fatter? He's so horny, but won't have sex with his wife and isn't even having sex with his OW? I can totally see why his wife might have just decided she was done chasing him and twisting herself into a pretzel trying to make him happy at the expense of her own self-respect. To be frank, I wouldn't waste my life trying to change someone's mind after they've been clear they don't love me and don't want me. How much of that should anyone be expected to take before they just stop jumping through the hoops, for their own sanity? His wife has made her own life, after he'd been clear she was never going to measure up and that he wasn't interested in her as she is.
> 
> And, let's not forget that this seems to have been an arranged marriage. She didn't choose him any more than he likely chose her. But that also may mean that she really might feel limited in her options for leaving. Let him file for the divorce if he must. So long as it doesn't cause irreparable harm to her because of any existing cultural or religious traditions their families might hold.


Sucked me back in here.

The OW was not heavier and definitely not fatter. She has a very flat stomach. She is 5'10" tall and wide shoulders and tapered waste etc and bigger bottom half. But everything is proportioned like a model...I only say this to give you an idea and clarification. I should have just said BIGGER....because I see now someone would interpret that as FATTER.

She looks like a model...with curves in all the right places....just a bigger boned one....just a very "feminine"? body and wears clothes that flatter her figure.

My wife looks like....well a guy. If you saw her from the back you might think she is a man. Just sayin objectively....


----------



## bagelboy

Blondilocks said:


> It's about control. It's always been about control.


This is 100% true but its only one piece and cannot be taken out of context.

If you read up on Adult Children of Alcoholics and problems they have in relationships you will know more about my wife.

If you read about women abused by their brothers as children you will know more about my wife.

If you read about high functioning Bipolar 2 you will know more about me.

If you read about adult adoptees (with really distant relationships with adopted parents) and issues in relationships you will know more about me.

So you have to put those 4 factors into all of this. My counselor does. 

My wife is still struggling with her issues and has growing to do. I am still struggling with my issues and have growing to do.

I appreciate coming here. I am coming to get help. Maybe someday I can help others.

I have gotten some great perspectives if at the very least feeling the anger and pain some of you women have. That makes an impact.


----------



## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> Out of our 25 years being married we literally have been in marriage counseling for 15+ years give or take. Weekly or bi-weekly. 3 different counselors.


^^THIS.^^

My definition of bellyaching is complaining about something, but not taking concrete, constructive steps to change and/or improve the situation. You hashed it out with THREE counselors. You have complained to friends about your wife, you have complained here. But all you can come up with you are "confused"??? C'mon. Let's get real here. You aren't attracted to your wife. You haven't had sex in SEVEN years. You claim the two of you are friends, but then you say you fight 4-5 times a week. Heck, when do you even find time to be friends between your unhappiness with the relationship and all the fighting going on?

So, yeah, you ARE bellyaching.


----------



## As'laDain

bagelboy said:


> This is 100% true but its only one piece and cannot be taken out of context.
> 
> If you read up on Adult Children of Alcoholics and problems they have in relationships you will know more about my wife.
> 
> If you read about women abused by their brothers as children you will know more about my wife.
> 
> If you read about high functioning Bipolar 2 you will know more about me.
> 
> If you read about adult adoptees (with really distant relationships with adopted parents) and issues in relationships you will know more about me.
> 
> So you have to put those 4 factors into all of this. My counselor does.
> 
> My wife is still struggling with her issues and has growing to do. I am still struggling with my issues and have growing to do.
> 
> I appreciate coming here. I am coming to get help. Maybe someday I can help others.
> 
> I have gotten some great perspectives if at the very least feeling the anger and pain some of you women have. That makes an impact.


my wife was raped by her alcoholic biological father when she was a preteen girl. she was adopted. my mother was adopted. my sister was adopted. my wife is bipolar type 1. 

all that said, i still think you are copping out most of the time. you are your own worst enemy. you seem to have convinced your wife that she is not attractive. she is not desirable. 

but you don't seem to have it in you to try and convince her otherwise.


----------



## bagelboy

As'laDain said:


> my wife was raped by her alcoholic biological father when she was a preteen girl. she was adopted. my mother was adopted. my sister was adopted. my wife is bipolar type 1.
> 
> 
> 
> all that said, i still think you arpping out most of the time. you are your own worst enemy. you seem to have convinced your wife that she is not attractive. she is not desirable.
> 
> but you don't seem to have it in you to try and convince her otherwise.



I am sorry about your family. I understand and live with that. Thanks for sharing. 

Yes, you are right about all of the next paragraph.

If anyone has an answer on how I can change please tell me. I'm on my last leg. I'm done making excuses....I'm just wish someone would tell me
1. Do this
2. Do this next 
3. Then this

If you do these 3 things everything will be great


----------



## 269370

I still don't understand why your wife is not leaving you after you told her that you are having or had an affair and are not in love with her anymore. Where's her dignity?
I find this more strange than the abnormally small waist size of the jeans you wear.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

I'm pretty sure that if my wife saw me climb into a size 4 pair of women's jeans, that'd be the end our sex life as well.


----------



## Livvie

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> I'm pretty sure that if my wife saw me climb into a size 4 pair of women's jeans, that'd be the end our sex life as well.


I'm eating lunch and when I read this I almost inhaled rice and died I laughed so hard.


----------



## bagelboy

inmyprime said:


> I still don't understand why your wife is not leaving you after you told her that you are having or had an affair and are not in love with her anymore. Where's her dignity?
> I find this more strange than the abnormally small waist size of the jeans you wear.


I spent a total of 90 minutes with the OW. 
My wife has forgiven me.
You will have ask her. 

I really regret bringing up jeans. I should have just said I wear men's 29 slim fit. It the same freaking size except my legs are short so men's 30 inseam is too long.
Can we drop the whole jeans thing? I dare anyone to tell the difference between women's levi 505 straight leg and my mens slim straight.

I only brought it up because it's not like I'm asking my wife to work out and I don't etc.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> I spent a total of 90 minutes with the OW.
> My wife has forgiven me.
> You will have ask her.
> 
> I really regret bringing up jeans. I should have just said I wear men's 29 slim fit. It the same freaking size except my legs are short so men's 30 inseam is too long.
> Can we drop the whole jeans thing? I dare anyone to tell the difference between women's levi 505 straight leg and my mens slim straight.
> 
> I only brought it up because it's not like I'm asking my wife to work out and I don't etc.


I was pulling your leg with the jeans. (the one with the jeans on 
The whole conversation about sizes is completely irrelevant and yet a little bit hilarious...

But you also told her you don't really love her anymore and don't find her attractive etc? My wife would leave me before I finished the first sentence.


----------



## threelittlestars

I was going to ask what the hell YOU DID to make her say she was done with you. Ask why she seemed to instigate no more sex. 

But this here kind of sums it up. I dont even need to know more. You are superficial, and selfish and the fact you have not had sex with your wife for some time is because you are simply a turd... You made her feel ugly and undesired and so her desire for YOU vanished. Hum...seems quite obvious. now you are in an affair. Congrats, you are more than a turd now. 



Blondilocks said:


> Go back to your very first post in 2008. Have you learned nothing?
> 
> Here it is in a nutshell: it isn't your wife's job to make you feel better about yourself by twisting herself into a pretzel.
> 
> Ten years ago you were complaining that she was starting to get wrinkles on her face (she was 46 years old!). In addition to not working out 5 days a week and eating a diet that you didn't approve of. You claimed you didn't want a trophy wife.
> 
> You are entitled to marry whatever type of person floats your boat. You are not entitled to make your mate miserable because they don't meet your quota for whatever bug you have up your butt that day.
> 
> You made her so miserable that she wrote you off and, now, you're miserable because your puppet cut the strings.
> You have no friends and have essentially lost your wife. I feel sorry for you.
> 
> Happiness comes from within - your mate can not provide it. Stop blaming her for your crap life.


----------



## threelittlestars

You claim religion right? Christian man? You are so wrapped up in looks. Let me suggest this to you. What if GOD put you in this situation to actually shape YOU? maybe you are the REAL FLAWED ONE, and they way you are acting is a failure to the test... 

Seriously. YOU ARE...(I cant say mean things) #$%@@!$%^$^^[email protected]@ [email protected]#$%#@ [email protected]###%##!!!!!!!!


----------



## bagelboy

inmyprime said:


> I was pulling your leg with the jeans. (the one with the jeans on
> The whole conversation about sizes is completely irrelevant and yet a little bit hilarious...
> 
> But you also told her you don't really love her anymore and don't find her attractive etc? My wife would leave me before I finished the first sentence.



"But you also told her you don't really love her anymore and don't find her attractive etc?"

No I've never said that to her.


----------



## bagelboy

threelittlestars said:


> You claim religion right? Christian man? You are so wrapped up in looks. Let me suggest this to you. What if GOD put you in this situation to actually shape YOU? maybe you are the REAL FLAWED ONE, and they way you are acting is a failure to the test...
> 
> Seriously. YOU ARE...(I cant say mean things) #$%@@!$%^$^^[email protected]@ [email protected]#$%#@ [email protected]###%##!!!!!!!!



No I don't claim religion(have not been to church in 14 years)
No I am not a Christian man(we met in bible study, I was a "born again " Christian but for all long time now. 15 years. Don't know if there is a god.)
No I am not so wrapped up in looks
Yes I am the flawed one of the two of us for sure
Yes I believe "god" is using this to shape me.
I told my wife tonight I apologize for hurting her all these years and she said it meant a lot to her to hear that
I said I am going to man up and try change and face my demons and I'm not going anywhere.
I hugged her tonight...I mean I inititiated it.


----------



## bagelboy

threelittlestars said:


> I was going to ask what the hell YOU DID to make her say she was done with you. Ask why she seemed to instigate no more sex.
> 
> But this here kind of sums it up. I dont even need to know more. You are superficial, and selfish and the fact you have not had sex with your wife for some time is because you are simply a turd... You made her feel ugly and undesired and so her desire for YOU vanished. Hum...seems quite obvious. now you are in an affair. Congrats, you are more than a turd now.


I was in an affair. That is over. It lasted 1hr 30 minutes plus texting for two weeks.

She said that 7 years ago because she felt that no matter what she does it's not good enough. Also it hurts that I have to "try" too be a attracted to her(no it's not just physical..it's more than that)

She said no more sex because the last x #if times we tried I couldn't get up at all. So it became hurtful and painful for her.

She doesn't feel ugly 
She does feel undesired and rejected and hurt. She told me last night. But she also said she loves me. That she is ready to try again.

Her desire for me has never vanished she told me last night and tonight. 

We've had some heavy conversations the last few nights.


----------



## threelittlestars

I hope you can learn to value and cherish her body. It nourished children, and worked hard to provide for her family and you. Honor her sacrifices, her scars, and marks, the random roll or pudge. To be honest 30 lbs from a models body is no great weight gain. 

Aging and loving the soul and the mind and loving the body that grows older with you...should be honored. Please nock of your other bull-crap. 

Good luck.... Wishing your wife the best that she can get out of you.


----------



## bagelboy

As'laDain said:


> my wife was raped by her alcoholic biological father when she was a preteen girl. she was adopted. my mother was adopted. my sister was adopted. my wife is bipolar type 1.
> 
> all that said, i still think you are copping out most of the time. you are your own worst enemy. you seem to have convinced your wife that she is not attractive. she is not desirable.
> 
> but you don't seem to have it in you to try and convince her otherwise.


As'laDain and others...

What do you think the balance is between finding someone attractive in a "love at first sight"...kind of way and working to try to convince someone she is attractive.

My wife has told me "well, if you have to work at finding me attractive then just stop. It shouldn't be work for you and makes me feel like I am a project"

As women/wives... I mean. EVERY one of my married friends said " I was first physically attracted to my wife then that wanted me to get to know her. We dated then got engaged and married"

So for all of my friends they had this initial "wow, who is that she is pretty, attractive" .

I never had that with my wife.


----------



## bagelboy

BTW.

I hope it is okay for me to share on an intimate level while keeping privacy. If its too much please tell me.


----------



## As'laDain

bagelboy said:


> As'laDain and others...
> 
> What do you think the balance is between finding someone attractive in a "love at first sight"...kind of way and working to try to convince someone she is attractive.
> 
> My wife has told me "well, if you have to work at finding me attractive then just stop. It shouldn't be work for you and makes me feel like I am a project"
> 
> As women/wives... I mean. EVERY one of my married friends said " I was first physically attracted to my wife then that wanted me to get to know her. We dated then got engaged and married"
> 
> So for all of my friends they had this initial "wow, who is that she is pretty, attractive" .
> 
> I never had that with my wife.


im not sure i understand the question. i didnt find my wife attractive until we had been married for a few years. for us, it took work.


----------



## bagelboy

So here is what the OW wrote to me. It shows you how special she is and why I THINK I am in love with her but had to end it.


Steve(not my real name),
It just sounds like she wants to make it work with you. I think you need to do these things- 1) Apologize (whether your fault or not) profusely for misbehavior and being evil all these years. 2) Look her in the eye and say that you want to make this marriage work and that you want to do everything that will make her happy and not question anything 3) That you are willing to accept her as she is and will not force any changes .. that it has never been about the physical fitness. 5) that you will support her in all her endeavors 6) that you love her with all your heart and that she is your priority 7) you want to age gracefully into retirement with her. Your music ( I am a musician), confidence, aura still excites her, draws her to you. You should only remember these words that she spoke of you and respect them.. absorb them in your cells. You are a very soft spoken nice man who has so much love to give!! That’s what I have felt over the last 3 weeks. Past is past.. we all made lots of mistakes but now we have evolved as mature beings and can take better care of things. What you and I have is very special- two people who have the exact same definition of love that unfortunately this world doesn’t understand without being explicit. I will fade over time.. but what is eternal is your marriage. You just have to recognize that.

So when she wrote these things to me my heart was crushed but I knew she was right. At the same time it draws me closer to her.

So I am on a new path with my wife. I am going to give this one last herculean effort. If it doesn't work out between my wife and I and this woman is still there and it doesn't work out between her husband and her then maybe it was meant to be.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> As'laDain and others...
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think the balance is between finding someone attractive in a "love at first sight"...kind of way and working to try to convince someone she is attractive.
> 
> 
> 
> My wife has told me "well, if you have to work at finding me attractive then just stop. It shouldn't be work for you and makes me feel like I am a project"
> 
> 
> 
> As women/wives... I mean. EVERY one of my married friends said " I was first physically attracted to my wife then that wanted me to get to know her. We dated then got engaged and married"
> 
> 
> 
> So for all of my friends they had this initial "wow, who is that she is pretty, attractive" .
> 
> 
> 
> I never had that with my wife.




Then why did you get together with her in the first place?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## As'laDain

inmyprime said:


> Then why did you get together with her in the first place?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


family tradition.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> So I am on a new path with my wife. I am going to give this one last herculean effort. If it doesn't work out between my wife and I and this woman is still there and it doesn't work out between her husband and her then maybe it was meant to be.


If you are not attracted to your wife, the chances that it will work out with her in the long run are pretty slim. IMO you should decide sooner rather than later if you are attracted to her or not.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> I was in an affair. That is over. It lasted 1hr 30 minutes plus texting for two weeks.


What did you do in those "1 hour and 30 minutes"?


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> Steve(not my real name),
> It just sounds like she wants to make it work with you. I think you need to do these things- 1) Apologize (whether your fault or not) profusely for misbehavior and being evil all these years. 2) Look her in the eye and say that you want to make this marriage work and that you want to do everything that will make her happy and not question anything 3) That you are willing to accept her as she is and will not force any changes .. that it has never been about the physical fitness. 5) that you will support her in all her endeavors 6) that you love her with all your heart and that she is your priority 7) you want to age gracefully into retirement with her. Your music ( I am a musician), confidence, aura still excites her, draws her to you. You should only remember these words that she spoke of you and respect them.. absorb them in your cells. You are a very soft spoken nice man who has so much love to give!! That’s what I have felt over the last 3 weeks. Past is past.. we all made lots of mistakes but now we have evolved as mature beings and can take better care of things. *What you and I have is very special- two people who have the exact same definition of love that unfortunately this world doesn’t understand without being explicit. *I will fade over time.. but what is eternal is your marriage. You just have to recognize that.
> .


Yeah...she wants you to fight for her (for the OW).
I don't think either of those relationship are viable. (The OW is married and I doubt she'll be leaving her husband. They usually don't).

You can't make yourself attracted to somebody (very VERY few people can). If it's not this OW, you will stumble across somebody else and it will just continue until your wife is so miserable that she will leave you herself.


----------



## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> BTW.
> 
> I hope it is okay for me to share on an intimate level while keeping privacy. If its too much please tell me.


If you feel your privacy may be compromised, request the mods move this to the Private forum.


----------



## bagelboy

inmyprime said:


> What did you do in those "1 hour and 30 minutes"?


You seriously want me to answer that? I will if its a serious question.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> You seriously want me to answer that? I will if its a serious question.




It’s ok, I think I now get the gist  it’s just a strange way to describe an affair in terms of hours and minutes  People usually refer to it as a one night stand. (Or one hour and 30 minutes stand 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Livvie

You have never been attracted to your wife. You aren't attracted to her now. It's beyond me why you aren't ending it.


----------



## bagelboy

inmyprime said:


> It’s ok, I think I now get the gist  it’s just a strange way to describe an affair in terms of hours and minutes  People usually refer to it as a one night stand. (Or one hour and 30 minutes stand
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You think we actually had sex? Woah. 
Day 1 we hugged. That was it
Day 2 we hugged and kissed on lips
Day 3 we hugged, kissed. Got heated and stopped before it got out of hand.
No tongue ever.


----------



## bagelboy

Livvie said:


> You have never been attracted to your wife. You aren't attracted to her now. It's beyond me why you aren't ending it.


Me too. Hanging onto one last hope maybe? 
No..If I'm honest I don't believe that. 
Frankly...
She is my best friend
I would be really. Really lonely
I love my dogs,house etc
I don't what to do.
I wrote all that stuff above but i feel in i love with OW. She is so beautiful in her heart but physically as well...cant get my mind off her


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> You think we actually had sex? Woah.
> 
> Day 1 we hugged. That was it
> 
> Day 2 we hugged and kissed on lips
> 
> Day 3 we hugged, kissed. Got heated and stopped before it got out of hand.
> 
> No tongue ever.




Wow, you confuse me...Why did you bring up the 1 hour and 30 minutes bit then? What’s the significance of this timing??
Your affair started when you said hello to this woman..
It’s just my curiosity...You went over the line either way.

It’s not about that: it’s about the fact that you should release your wife from the pain. You know you don’t find her attractive. She doesn’t know that you don’t. Or if she does, it’s bizarre she hasn’t left you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bagelboy

She said "because i love you and forgive you and if I left you I'm afraid what you would do"


----------



## bagelboy

I guess this would be another topic. 
Is there such a thing as divorce and a happy remarriage? Does it happen?


----------



## tom72

Boy oh boy. You have some serious issues

Get into IC asap


----------



## bagelboy

Tom 72

Elaborate please?
Your post is not constructive or helpful in any way. 

What I read your post. Then
"Wow. This person is right. I should get into IC right now.
I tell my wife to bring me to hospital because some unknown person on internet told me to go to IC.


----------



## turnera

No, you're not open to hearing. You get all this great advice from people who know what the hell they're talking about, have been there, or have been giving advice for 20 years like me and know what works and what doesn't work out. And then you come back and say 'well, what about divorce and REMARRIAGE?'

In other words, you STILL are searching for any way to keep this woman.

The ONLY way to save a marriage is to be willing to walk away from it.

But you aren't there yet. Not even close. Which is why you are being advised to seek out a professional therapist.


----------



## bagelboy

turnera said:


> No, you're not open to hearing. You get all this great advice from people who know what the hell they're talking about, have been there, or have been giving advice for 20 years like me and know what works and what doesn't work out. And then you come back and say 'well, what about divorce and REMARRIAGE?'
> 
> In other words, you STILL are searching for any way to keep this woman.
> 
> The ONLY way to save a marriage is to be willing to walk away from it.
> 
> But you aren't there yet. Not even close. Which is why you are being advised to seek out a professional therapist.


Ok I hear you. I accept that.
If you read every post you know that Monday night i am seeing my P-DOC and my counselor right?

Yes. I am searching for any way to keep this woman I admit it. You are right.

Turnera,
What advice would you give me?
You don't know me....only from my posts...so there is a lot missing....but based on my posts.....what is your advise?


----------



## Hopeful Cynic

bagelboy said:


> Tom 72
> 
> Elaborate please?
> Your post is not constructive or helpful in any way.
> 
> What I read your post. Then
> "Wow. This person is right. I should get into IC right now.
> I tell my wife to bring me to hospital because some unknown person on internet told me to go to IC.


In this context IC is Individual Counselling, not Intensive Care.

You need to talk to a professional. You don't seem to understand anything we are saying to you, and the magic solution you are looking for doesn't exist.

What is it about you that has you stuck in this unhappy marriage? You need help figuring that out.

From what I can tell, you are selfishly remaining with a wife you don't love because you don't want to be alone, but you're unhappy about the marriage because there isn't any sex. You can't magically turn your wife into someone you are sexually attracted to, and you can't be guaranteed that the woman you are sexually attracted to would pick up where your wife left off if you get divorced.

Are you this indecisive about everything else in your life? IC can help with that.


----------



## threelittlestars

I thought the message from your other woman was weird and creepy as hell... No one felt that? 

You want her more because of it. What a pure soul...bla bla... I wanted to puke. Felt fake and dramatic.


----------



## Blondilocks

I felt the first part of the OW's message sounded like something a parent would tell a child. Coupled with the fact that the OW is 5'10" and the OP is under 5'5" - well, it looks like the OP has found himself a mommy he could actually love. He most assuredly doesn't love his wife. The decent thing to do would be to divorce his wife so she can go on to a real relationship.


----------



## bagelboy

I am seeing my individual counselor Monday night.
I am 5'7" she was 5'9"
If anyone is my mommy it's my wife if you didnt get
That in all my posts then I've done a bad job of explaining
This has nothing to do with sex. If you don't get that from my posts I've done a bad job. Or you are taking one sentence out of context of every thing I've said
I'm done with the affair last week. I've written that multiple times because some are responding as if its still happening

At this point the first thing my counselor (who have seen for 3 years now) will say. First thing you need to do is get off that website/forum.


----------



## Satya

It's ALWAYS about sex.


----------



## Blondilocks

The first thing you need to do is get your own facts straight.

First you didn't have any buddies you hang with and didn't have anyone to talk to about this. Now, you have friends.

You wore a 28" inseam and now you wear a 29".

A few posts ago, the woman was 5'10" and now she is 5'9".

You seem to change your story to support whatever point you're trying to talk yourself into believing. I suggest you get a new counselor because the current one is not helping you face reality.

As to your question regarding women's pants versus men's - it all boils down to from which side the zipper opens (just like shirts in case you're thinking of wearing a woman's) and women's usually have more room in the tush.


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> Ok I hear you. I accept that.
> If you read every post you know that Monday night i am seeing my P-DOC and my counselor right?
> 
> Yes. I am searching for any way to keep this woman I admit it. You are right.
> 
> Turnera,
> What advice would you give me?
> You don't know me....only from my posts...so there is a lot missing....but based on my posts.....what is your advise?




First things first: what is your shoe size? 
The advice is to tell your wife the truth, leave her and stop being selfish.
Oh and also leave the OW alone. She’s married.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Livvie

bagelboy said:


> I am seeing my individual counselor Monday night.
> I am 5'7" she was 5'9"
> If anyone is my mommy it's my wife if you didnt get
> That in all my posts then I've done a bad job of explaining
> This has nothing to do with sex. If you don't get that from my posts I've done a bad job. Or you are taking one sentence out of context of every thing I've said
> I'm done with the affair last week. I've written that multiple times because some are responding as if its still happening
> 
> At this point the first thing my counselor (who have seen for 3 years now) will say. First thing you need to do is get off that website/forum.


Of course it has to do with sex. If it didn't, you'd be completely happy with your wife!! The only reason the other woman has your eye is because you are SEXually attracted to her! It's not that she would be a better friend to you!


----------



## Bluesclues

bagelboy said:


> So here is what the OW wrote to me. It shows you how special she is and why I THINK I am in love with her but had to end it.
> 
> What you and I have is very special- two people who have the exact same definition of love that unfortunately this world doesn’t understand without being explicit.
> 
> So when she wrote these things to me my heart was crushed but I knew she was right. At the same time it draws me closer to her.


As a former OW I can tell you this entire message was just one big load of manipulation. “Look what a good person I am telling you how to go do the right thing while sacrificing something so special. I am so selfless.” And it worked on you. This shows she is calculating, not that she has a big heart.


----------



## bagelboy

Bluesclues said:


> As a former OW I can tell you this entire message was just one big load of manipulation. “Look what a good person I am telling you how to go do the right thing while sacrificing something so special. I am so selfless.” And it worked on you. This shows she is calculating, not that she has a big heart.


Ok, point taken...makes sense....I see truth in your point


----------



## bagelboy

Can I summarize the general consensus I am hearing here and be done with this thread and move on?
1. What I (we)did was wrong...period...no excuses. 
A)..and ending it was the right move

2. Telling my wife was the right thing to do

3. My wife forgives me and loves me and wants to stay married but I need to decide if I'm staying and working on marraige or separating or divorcing. Most of you think I should divorce her

4. Stay in counseling because I have crap that I haven't worked through and i won't be worth being in a relationship with a woman unless i fix it...and possibly i should prepare I might never be in a relationship with a woman again.
At least one of you says I should get a new counselor.


----------



## Livvie

bagelboy said:


> Can I summarize the general consensus I am hearing here and be done with this thread and move on?
> 1. What I (we)did was wrong...period...no excuses.
> A)..and ending it was the right move
> 
> 2. Telling my wife was the right thing to do
> 
> 3. My wife forgives me and loves me and wants to stay married but I need to decide if I'm staying and working on marraige or separating or divorcing. Most of you think I should divorce her
> 
> 4. Stay in counseling because I have crap that I haven't worked through and i won't be worth being in a relationship with a woman unless i fix it...and possibly i should prepare I might never be in a relationship with a woman again.
> At least one of you says I should get a new counselor.


You are making this waaaaaaaaaaaay harder than it needs to be. You are not physically attracted to your wife. AT ALL. Full stop there. This is a friendship, not a marriage.

Don't stay married to a friend who is physically a turn off.

It's seriously that simple.


----------



## turnera

bagelboy said:


> Ok I hear you. I accept that.
> If you read every post you know that Monday night i am seeing my P-DOC and my counselor right?
> 
> Yes. I am searching for any way to keep this woman I admit it. You are right.
> 
> Turnera,
> What advice would you give me?
> You don't know me....only from my posts...so there is a lot missing....but based on my posts.....what is your advise?


That depends on what your goal is. I can't tell anymore.


----------



## bagelboy

turnera said:


> That depends on what your goal is. I can't tell anymore.


Dang you are good. Ughh. That is really heavy.

Thank you. OMG....you just hit me like a ton if bricks. My goal. I need to figure this out.

Seriously crying right now. Is it okay for a man to cry?


----------



## 269370

bagelboy said:


> Dang you are good. Ughh. That is really heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you. OMG....you just hit me like a ton if bricks. My goal. I need to figure this out.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously crying right now. Is it okay for a man to cry?



For a man? yes. 
But please do not mention the jeans anymore.
I’m sure you will figure it out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## bagelboy

Can someone PM me and talk? I am really struggling. I'm all over the place and need to talk.


----------



## sandcastle

bagelboy said:


> Can someone PM me and talk? I am really struggling. I'm all over the place and need to talk.


Go slap some cream cheese and salmon on that bagel.

Serious?

You are a whining , pathetic cheater who is loathe to part with the assets or your teen size jeans.

Your entire story is silly.


----------



## Prodigal

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU?!?!?!?!?

Many well-meaning good folks here have given you sound advice. Yet time and time again you come back whining, "What should I do?" Dude, here is what you have told us thus far:

You and your wife fight at least 4-5x a week

Out of 25 years of marriage you have been in marriage counseling 15+ years.

You have been in a sexless marriage for 7 years.

Either you are the poster child for masochism, or you just don't listen to anyone. After all the counseling you have had, you STILL can't even come to a decision when faced with one. You really need someone to give you a good swift kick in the butt. Because, once again, you are coming across as some type of whiney girly man. Jeesh. GO HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE. DON'T HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WIFE. GET A DIVORCE. Just quit spinning your wheels and feeling sorry for yourself, OKAY??? Gawd!


----------



## pragmaticGoddess

Ok I’m a wife and I am a woman. My input? You need to come clean to your wife and you need to commit to her. Love is not how you feel today. It is a choice to love. After 25 years of marriage I would think that you would have years of experience to help younger couples on their journey, but your marriage tells me this is not necessarily so. It sounds like you have wasted any potential your marriage has to be an encouragement to others. 

I think you have turned your marriage into a farce by having an affair. You need to own your mistakes and take the initiative to improve your marriage. If not, why stay? Leave your wife and then begin another relationship. You have two choices but you need to be brave enough to decide.


----------



## bagelboy

Update. So it's been 2 months and 1 week.

I'm still in love with other woman. 
My marriage is still stale, dead. No more arguing. Just go to work,come home, eat dinner in front of tv.."how was your day?".. support each other as friends do...although the other woman was SO much more supportive and me to her. She got me and we connected in every way like my wife and I never have. 
My wife plays a game on her tablet then goes to bed. We do nothing on the weekends. Just do our own thing.
Btw it's been this way for last 10-15 years.
I've gone from 187lbs down to 151.5lbs.
On day 60 of no beer/alcohol.
She still drink 2-3 glasses wine a day boxed pizza crap eats 2x as much as me. 

But I made the right decision in ending the affair. 
I know that.


----------



## alte Dame

You are not in prison. One of the great gifts of our modern lives is that so many of us have real, true choices.

I don't support the way in which your marriage started and think you were likely to have problems like this, given why you married. For your W's part, it sounds like she tried hard to please you by dieting (perhaps starving?) and looking different so that you might be physically attracted to her. One day, she just decided that it wasn't worth it. Fair enough, I say.

But...you have the right to now say that it isn't worth it for you. The other woman may well be just a symptom. Sometimes things like your A have legs, but the vast majority of them don't.

Life is short. From a woman, I would say that it's your turn - again - to strike a blow for your own happiness. It seems like you two can't be happy together, so doing it separately makes sense.

File for D. At least now you can do it with some honor and not because you have a sidepiece.


----------



## Cromer

I got out of my sexless Hell after 30 years married. Never been happier.


----------



## Malaise

Cromer said:


> I got out of my sexless Hell after 30 years married. Never been happier.


In your case you got out of sexless hell and it turned out to be much more than that.

It was your love and patience that worked against you.


----------



## CuddleBug

bagelboy said:


> Oh man do I need advise.
> 
> I am husband and married 25 years in a sexless marriage now for 7 years. We don’t touch, hug only if something really bad happens and there for support.
> We are amiable house mates. Sleep in same bed but don’t get near each other.
> She put on 25 pounds and stopped working out and said “I’m done and not trying anymore…just going to do what makes me happen”
> Its a long story. I was never physically attracted to her, she then lost 30 pounds, size 4, worked out with weights, dieted. Was a head turner. Then I married her and it was over. We had kids. It was like she did it to get me, have kids, she stayed home with them. I love them I love her in a deep way as a friend, mother to my children. We have NO common interest, have never gone out, no mutual friends. She has friends and is social.
> 
> This is where people go "Then why the heck did you two marry each other?"
> 
> Think if Indian Marriages that are arranged by parents. Wife has no choice.
> 
> In our situation I had been heavy into a Christian church. My mentors told me "Looks are fleeting, don't base this on that. Do you think she will be a great mom and friend because you are saying that is important to you" Also, I had HUGE issues with being an adult adoptee and un-diagnosed bi-polar 2 (Im on meds now for 3 years). I think I was looking for a "mom", she was looking for someone to enable (she is adult child of alcoholic dad and struggles with boundaries...always looking to rescue someone)
> 
> 
> I am SUPER lonely. So I meet someone who takes my breath away. She is married but husband left and lives across the country. She has a girl…kind of single mom.
> This affair is much easier for her because no husband around to hide from.
> Its killing me because I feel I met a soulmate. Too early to tell but I dont want to throw away 27 years of history with my wife. I selfish part of me wants to stay married in my housemate situation and keep the affair. I would even love for my wife to meet someone who could make her happy. I care about her more like a sister and best friend but this is not and never will be again intimacy.




- Married for 25 years.


- SEXLESS for 7+ years......


- Non physical marriage.


- She didn't want to take care of her body for her health, sex appeal and you, gained 25+ lbs which is not that much weight.


- Then she worked out, lost 30+ lbs and you are saying, wow, she's hot.


- Then you married her, she decided to have kids.


- It sounds like she knew she was fat and you weren't seriously into her. So she decided to weight train, cardio, diet, lost the weight, got hot and sexy, you noticed, she knew this, got married and she really wanted marriage and kids and that's what happened.


- It's called bait and switch.


- I would get counseling, try to make it work, or divorce and see what happens with this other married woman or someone else. But don't see this other woman while being married.


- Before getting married and having kids, there should be a test for each spouse to be.


- Do they both have similar adventurous HD sex drives? Or are they opposites? Very important to know. Would solve a lot of problems.......


----------



## CuddleBug

bagelboy said:


> Update. So it's been 2 months and 1 week.
> 
> I'm still in love with other woman.
> My marriage is still stale, dead. No more arguing. Just go to work,come home, eat dinner in front of tv.."how was your day?".. support each other as friends do...although the other woman was SO much more supportive and me to her. She got me and we connected in every way like my wife and I never have.
> My wife plays a game on her tablet then goes to bed. We do nothing on the weekends. Just do our own thing.
> Btw it's been this way for last 10-15 years.
> I've gone from 187lbs down to 151.5lbs.
> On day 60 of no beer/alcohol.
> She still drink 2-3 glasses wine a day boxed pizza crap eats 2x as much as me.
> 
> But I made the right decision in ending the affair.
> I know that.




- I feel for yah and I can relate.


- I was 160+ lbs when meeting Mrs.CuddleBug, thick glasses, weak, and not much of a man. Then I weight trained, now I'm 260 lbs, and got laser eye surgery. I never drink, smoke or do recreational drugs. Diet overall is healthy because I do the grocery shopping. I have women in their teens to 50's flirting with me, which feels nice to be noticed.


----------



## bagelboy

I appreciate these replies.
My affair is over for good. So going back to her is zero %. 
I'm not divorcing my wife
Only options I see are 
1. Life just goes on. I'll never have intercourse again and stay married and maybe things get better and I'll eventually lose all sex drive anyway. Just get old with my wife
2. Another affair....
.01% of that happening in my opinion. 
3. I die early 
4. She dies early
5. Our marriage gets better and awesome and I fall in love with her.


----------



## CuddleBug

bagelboy said:


> I appreciate these replies.
> My affair is over for good. So going back to her is zero %.
> I'm not divorcing my wife
> Only options I see are
> 1. Life just goes on. I'll never have intercourse again and stay married and maybe things get better and I'll eventually lose all sex drive anyway. Just get old with my wife
> 2. Another affair....
> .01% of that happening in my opinion.
> 3. I die early
> 4. She dies early
> 5. Our marriage gets better and awesome and I fall in love with her.




- Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz separately and then compare the results afterwards. This will help you understand each other much better.

Profiles Archive - The 5 Love Languages®


- Let her know you are physically / sexually starved and that you need that physical intimacy with her and often. She may not know or is clueless.


- Either she makes the effort to take care of your needs and you do the same for her, or she doesn't change. Then I would divorce and find another woman who does have a high adventurous sex drive and takes care of herself. Most ladies do today. Or stay married and buy yourself sex toys to get it out of your system, hoping one day she gets a sex drive.


----------



## bagelboy

Thanks we already read the book etc. Went through excersises with counselor...long time ago.
It was a disaster
I'm 54 she is 56. Pretty low chance of me finding someone. Actually. I want her..not really anyone else..its pathetic and sad. There just is nothing there anymore


----------



## turnera

bagelboy said:


> I appreciate these replies.
> My affair is over for good. So going back to her is zero %.
> I'm not divorcing my wife
> Only options I see are
> 1. Life just goes on. I'll never have intercourse again and stay married and maybe things get better and I'll eventually lose all sex drive anyway. Just get old with my wife
> 2. Another affair....
> .01% of that happening in my opinion.
> 3. I die early
> 4. She dies early
> 5. Our marriage gets better and awesome and I fall in love with her.


 Or...you could get your head out of your ass and start CHANGING your marriage. You have a million options to do that. You just have to choose to do so.


----------



## threelittlestars

Head out of ass... YES. I agree.... 

Look, you are comparing her (your wife) to an ideal. IM SURE YOU HARDLY measure up to hers! BUT that is not the point. STOP measuring and taking stock of her flaws. YOU ARE NO CUPCAKE. 

Im glad you ended your affair. But 2 months is NOTHING! NOTHING! (as my dad would put it, "what? Do you want a badge?") 

You don't have her out of your system, and it wont likely happen for some time more. 

Literally... STOP finding FAULT in all that YOUR WIFE DOES! got that?


----------



## Blondilocks

You lost 35 pounds in 2 months?:bsflag:

The only reason you are in a sexless marriage is YOU! Your wife is more than willing to have sex with you. Why, God only knows.


----------



## bagelboy

August 2017 =187lbs
April 15, 2018 = 151.5lbs

You are an angry,angry,angry person. I feel sad for you. I've read a lot of your other post in various threads. Full of anger.


----------



## bagelboy

threelittlestars said:


> Head out of ass... YES. I agree....
> 
> Look, you are comparing her (your wife) to an ideal. IM SURE YOU HARDLY measure up to hers! BUT that is not the point. STOP measuring and taking stock of her flaws. YOU ARE NO CUPCAKE.
> 
> Im glad you ended your affair. But 2 months is NOTHING! NOTHING! (as my dad would put it, "what? Do you want a badge?")
> 
> You don't have her out of your system, and it wont likely happen for some time more.
> 
> Literally... STOP finding FAULT in all that YOUR WIFE DOES! got that?


Th ow weighs more than my wife. Hardly "ideal" in terms of what you are thinking.


----------



## threelittlestars

Even the other woman does not measure up, yet she is better than your wife in your eyes.... I don't understand what you really want in life.... 

IM sad for your wife... Im sure you know.


----------



## bagelboy

threelittlestars said:


> Even the other woman does not measure up, yet she is better than your wife in your eyes.... I don't understand what you really want in life....
> 
> IM sad for your wife... Im sure you know.


I have no idea what this means.

The OW
does her hair in a very feminine flattering style
she wears jewelry every day that is thought out and flattering
she wears very, very feminine clothes (IMO) dresses, skirts, heels, leggings, high heeled boots.
she wears make up
she diets all the time, is a vegetarian and does not drink alcohol.

She just.....looks very "feminine". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

Her belly is very flat (yes she has had children) and she is tall 5'9" and has broad shoulders and ...etc...

She is NOT a model, or eye candy. 

She 100% "measures up"

I am going to regret writing this

Just wanted you to know she DOES measure up in every way. The whole thing took me buy surprise. I wasn't looking for this.
She is not American. I would have never in a million years guessed I would be attracted to a woman from India.


----------



## threelittlestars

The thing is you are comparing your wife to something. WHAT THE HELL IDEAL DO YOU HAVE IN YOUR MIND? 

.......What is it? Im just so confused why you would pooh pooh on your wife who is only between 30-50lbs over weight. Why you are always dissatisfied with all she does, she is boring, she eats poorly.... COMPLAIN MUCH? 

I think that is your problem. You lack acceptance for people, only accept how they make you feel and if it is not good enough you think THEY are the problem. Buddy.... you dont see what is clear to most if not all the people on your thread. You may say, yeah, yeah, im the punk, but you just really dont get it deep down. For now the knowledge and understanding is on the surface... 

I do apologize for the tone and 2x4's. Im not so great at explaining things.


----------



## Blondilocks

All of the artifice you find attractive is the icing on the cake. If you don't like the cake itself, you won't be ordering it. Your wife knows you are not physically attracted to her. Why would she doll herself up like a show horse? What would she get out of it?

Then you have the problem of not being connected to your wife like you were with the other woman. She 'got' you.

Has it occurred to you that the other woman was dolling herself up and being so supportive and connecting because she was trolling for another woman's husband? Her behavior must make her husband so very proud to be her husband.

If you ever do see your wife start dolling herself up, paying attention to her weight, dressing better and looking feminine; you can bet someone who treats her well has piqued her interest. And, I'll say 'good on her'.


----------



## aine

Bagelboy, did you know that wives are usually a reflection of their husbands and how their husbands treat them. Your wife has felt unloved for years, gave up as a result taking care of her appearance, because it was never good enough for you. A wife blossoms and radiates when she is loved by her husband, she wants to look nice, stay fit and dress well. The husband is like a gardener. Unfortunately, you have been taking care of other gardens and not your own garden. Far away gardens are not always greener. If you managed to lose weight you could have included your wife. You simply threw her on a scrap heap and moaned and groaned about how unattractive she is. In fact you are the unattractive one.

You choose to stay in the marriage but be bitter about what you do not have causing misery to yourself and your wife, instead of helping her to make changes, being her knight her leader as a good husband should be. You are tempted to live selfishly by having an affair (it is an affair) and telling your wife. I hope your wife sees you for what you are, leaves you, gets fit and hot and meets a man worthy of her.

You are short sighted and have exposed your wife to your negativity and destroyed her in the process due to your selfishness. You have not taken proper care of your garden in any way and now reap the consequences.


----------



## aine

bagelboy said:


> I appreciate these replies.
> My affair is over for good. So going back to her is zero %.
> I'm not divorcing my wife
> Only options I see are
> 1. Life just goes on. I'll never have intercourse again and stay married and maybe things get better and I'll eventually lose all sex drive anyway. Just get old with my wife
> 2. Another affair....
> .01% of that happening in my opinion.
> 3. I die early
> 4. She dies early
> 5. Our marriage gets better and awesome and I fall in love with her.


6. Your wife has an epiphany decides to get healthy and fit. Get's attention from other guys but is not interested in you because she remembers what you did in the past, then files for divorce. It does happen


----------



## bagelboy

aine said:


> Bagelboy, did you know that wives are usually a reflection of their husbands and how their husbands treat them. Your wife has felt unloved for years, gave up as a result taking care of her appearance, because it was never good enough for you. A wife blossoms and radiates when she is loved by her husband, she wants to look nice, stay fit and dress well. The husband is like a gardener. Unfortunately, you have been taking care of other gardens and not your own garden. Far away gardens are not always greener. If you managed to lose weight you could have included your wife. You simply threw her on a scrap heap and moaned and groaned about how unattractive she is. In fact you are the unattractive one.
> 
> You choose to stay in the marriage but be bitter about what you do not have causing misery to yourself and your wife, instead of helping her to make changes, being her knight her leader as a good husband should be. You are tempted to live selfishly by having an affair (it is an affair) and telling your wife. I hope your wife sees you for what you are, leaves you, gets fit and hot and meets a man worthy of her.
> 
> You are short sighted and have exposed your wife to your negativity and destroyed her in the process due to your selfishness. You have not taken proper care of your garden in any way and now reap the consequences.


A wife blossoms and radiates when she is loved by her husband, she wants to look nice, stay fit and dress well.

Are you saying that every wife who doesn't look nice, is fat/overweight and doesn't dress well.......its all because they are unloved by their husbands?

I work with A LOT of married women. Many, many are overweight, some obese. Some do not dress well at all.....its like they don't even care.
Is it because their husbands are not treating them well?

Also, in YOUR opinion what does look nice mean? What does stay fit look like? What does dress well mean?

And why should I even care about your opinion? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have a friend whos wife is really, really ...fat. he loves her to death and basically finds fat women attractive.

Okay. God Bless him. Some guys like skinny petite women. Some tall, some athletic.

I think someone above made the best point. The grounds on which we were married were doomed from the beginning.

I am not saying I do not have a HUGE impact on all this. My wife does not feel unconditional love from me. Never has.

I don't feel unconditional love from her either. 

I just cant take the leap of faith and divorce her. She just told me yesterday she wont divorce me because she feels sad for me and loves me and thinks I would die if I was alone.

So....if you were in the room with her would you tell her to divorce me?

What would you say to convince her?

She told me " If we divorced or you died I would never re marry. You are the only one for me"


----------



## MAJDEATH

bagelboy said:


> I have no idea what this means.
> 
> The OW
> does her hair in a very feminine flattering style
> she wears jewelry every day that is thought out and flattering
> she wears very, very feminine clothes (IMO) dresses, skirts, heels, leggings, high heeled boots.
> she wears make up
> she diets all the time, is a vegetarian and does not drink alcohol.
> 
> She just.....looks very "feminine". Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.
> 
> Her belly is very flat (yes she has had children) and she is tall 5'9" and has broad shoulders and ...etc...
> 
> She is NOT a model, or eye candy.
> 
> She 100% "measures up"
> 
> I am going to regret writing this
> 
> Just wanted you to know she DOES measure up in every way. The whole thing took me buy surprise. I wasn't looking for this.
> She is not American. I would have never in a million years guessed I would be attracted to a woman from India.


My fWW told me her OM told her this all the time. That she was so much more "woman" than his wife.


----------



## alte Dame

You sound like such a sad sack here. Are you this way in real life?

As an individual you have agency. You can make the decision to divorce if that's what you really want. Your W doesn't have to do it for you.

My son laughed when he told me about a cynical comedian whose 'motto' was, 'Life is short, life is ****, and soon it will be over.' We laughed about it together because of the bit of truth there was in it for us. But it is only a *bit* of truth. For you, you went with the flow in choosing a spouse, have been unhappy with a wife that you have no real sexual chemistry with, and spend years dithering and wallowing. And soon it will be over...

Your W is probably right that you will fade away if she divorces you. Your way of life seems to be paralysis and if she takes that away, you may well be lost.

Or....not.

You really could man up and get some help for yourself. Decide that your life will change and set yourself on a course to change it for the better. Remember that we all have to walk through some **** to make things better, so you would need to stop being afraid.

And, fwiw, I think your OW was never really into you. I think she was letting you down as kindly as she could, even though she never should have led you on to begin with. Some people get caught in unrequited love situations and don't know how to extract themselves gracefully. I think you need to stop saying that you are in love with her. I don't think you really know what real, deep, abiding adult love is. Your M was never founded on that. Take a deep breath, center yourself, and give yourself a chance by at least starting to see your A for what it was.


----------



## MAJDEATH

7 yrs with no sex! Hello dear, I'd like you to meet Jasmine, our new live-in masseuse that I personally selected.


----------



## bagelboy

MAJDEATH said:


> My fWW told me her OM told her this all the time. That she was so much more "woman" than his wife.


I dont understand this. 

What does this mean.

For what its worth. My wife told you her other man told her this all the time. ?


Is that what it means.

so...you are divorced?


----------



## MAJDEATH

bagelboy said:


> MAJDEATH said:
> 
> 
> 
> My fWW told me her OM told her this all the time. That she was so much more "woman" than his wife.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont understand this.
> 
> What does this mean.
> 
> For what its worth. My wife told you her other man told her this all the time. ?
> 
> 
> Is that what it means.
> 
> so...you are divorced?
Click to expand...

What it means is it is common for the OM to regard the AP as more appealing than his long-term spouse. fWW means former wayward wife.

Married for 22 yrs, with some separations along the way.


----------



## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> The grounds on which we were married were doomed from the beginning.
> 
> I am not saying I do not have a HUGE impact on all this. My wife does not feel unconditional love from me. Never has.
> 
> I don't feel unconditional love from her either.
> 
> So....if you were in the room with her would you tell her to divorce me?
> 
> What would you say to convince her?
> 
> She told me " If we divorced or you died I would never re marry. You are the only one for me"


You claim your wife does not love you unconditionally. Then you claim she told you that you are the only one for her.

Maybe there is a language barrier here. Is English your native language? The reason I ask is you seem to have some difficulty understanding what other posters have written. You also contradict yourself a lot. English IS a difficult language even for native speakers. 

However, even if there are some challenges with comprehension, it is evident that you want to stay in an unhappy marriage. 

Why would anyone here want to convince your wife to divorce you? She isn't posting, you are. Do you want her to divorce you so you don't have to force the issue and divorce her?

You have chosen to remain in marriage hell. That's fine. Your life. Your choice. But I'm not sure what advice you are actually seeking.


----------



## bagelboy

But I'm not sure what advice you are actually seeking.

I don't know either.
Maybe I keep coming back to hear "I was in the exact situation and here is how we fixed it"

But I'm realizing now that .001% of marriages probably started like ours. So there is a .001% c hg ance I'll get that answer.


----------



## bagelboy

CuddleBug said:


> - Both of you take the 5 love languages quiz separately and then compare the results afterwards. This will help you understand each other much better.
> 
> Profiles Archive - The 5 Love Languages®
> 
> 
> - Let her know you are physically / sexually starved and that you need that physical intimacy with her and often. She may not know or is clueless.
> 
> 
> - Either she makes the effort to take care of your needs and you do the same for her, or she doesn't change. Then I would divorce and find another woman who does have a high adventurous sex drive and takes care of herself. Most ladies do today. Or stay married and buy yourself sex toys to get it out of your system, hoping one day she gets a sex drive.



So. We took the test together
I scored 11 on physical touch
She scored 11 on words of affirmation


----------



## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> Maybe I keep coming back to hear "I was in the exact situation and here is how we fixed it"
> 
> But I'm realizing now that .001% of marriages probably started like ours. So there is a .001% c hg ance I'll get that answer.


Nobody is going to be in the EXACT same situation as you. That doesn't mean the feedback/advice you have received is all worthless. There is a saying in A.A. about how many alcoholics feel they suffer from "terminal uniqueness." It is what fuels their self-centered obsession with drinking. It strikes me there are parallels here. I don't see your problem(s) as particularly unique, unusual or beyond-the-norm.

You are not sexually attracted to your wife. You had an EA with another woman. You don't want to get divorced. You want someone to spoon feed you the answer to your problem(s), even if they got married under the identical circumstances. 

Sorry, but it's an inside job. You either have the guts to end things, repair your marriage, or continue complaining and playing the victim role. Nothing about that sounds strange and/or unusual to me. You made a choice to stay married. So deal with it. If you want to remain married, then don't complain. If you want to leave you marriage and start a new life, then accept the consequences of your actions. 

It's called being an adult and accepting responsibility. Time to man up. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's how it is.


----------



## bagelboy

People change over time. Regardless of all I've written, there is so much I haven't. I am 54...so in these 13 pages you can only get a glimpse. And I've only written about the "bad" stuff.
So I dont expect a single response here to be anything other than a reaction to what I have written here and in my other thread from a few years ago.
That being said
1. I ended the affair (for some reason there are a few posts where its seems people still think I'm in it etc)
2. We went for a walk in the woods with the dogs Saturday. Great side by side time . No arguing
3. Yesterday went out if town on a date. Held hands, talked laughed. 3 hour drive,shopping,lunch and dinner out.
Held hands all the way back. Gave her a head scratch(she loves those). "Wow that felt great ..haven't had one of those in a long time". She had a big smile
3. She has lost 10 pounds...all on her own...nothing to do with me. Cut her wine intake 50%.
4. Told me she would love for me to help her pick out some clothes for her
5. I gave her a big hug from behind this morning...she loved it.
I guess if I can just keep this going one day at a time...well that's my goal...one day at a time
6. I'm on day 66 of no alcohol...quit cold turkey..that cant hurt 
7. My mom recently said "if I were Susan (not my wife's real name) I would have left you years ago...you should count your blessings and be nice to her"
So for now I'm taking the repair my marriage option and focusing on meeting her needs only and not worrying about mine.


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## bagelboy

Hi. WOW. A lot has happened since my last post here. That was over a year ago.

I started an affair on January 15, 2018. It ended 1.5 months ago.

Long story short. She is 15 years younger than me. Absolutely stunningly beautiful. 5'9". Thin and just ….well......looks like a model.

She is from India. Arranged marriage with a man she hates and never wanted to marry. She begged her father to not make her marry him.

My whole life has changed. I had sex with her and it was the most amazing sex I have ever had.

More to come.

Just wanted to come back here because I have a story to tell and I am in a new place. Maybe the same place but worse. Maybe the a better place.

Later


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## turnera

So...you're a serial cheater who wasn't even being honest with us (started another affair 3 months before you last posted here and didn't tell us). Nice.


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## She'sStillGotIt

bagelboy said:


> Just wanted to come back here because I have a story to tell and I am in a new place. Maybe the same place but worse. Maybe the a better place.


Is the story you want to share with us more about how you - at 55 years old - managed to get a woman you think is 'model beautiful' to have sex with you? Methinks you just happened to be in the right place at the right time and were able to take advantage of a woman who hates the husband she was forced to marry and wanted to do something to lash out in anger at him. It sounds as though it could have been *anyone* she would have done the dirty deed with - you just made sure it was _you_ who got to be the 'any port in a storm' bang partner she was looking for.

But yes, DO come back and regale us with even more of your studly adventures. I, for one, am on the _edge_ of my seat waiting for the next installment!


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## Tron




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## bagelboy

Hi.

No I didn't have another affair.

Same affair. On again, off again, on again, off again.

Yeah. Why did I come back here?

Hmm. 

I am going to re-think why I came back to this forum. That is a good question.

1. I am looking for input on how to save, help, heal my relationship with my wife.
2. I have a new realization after having this affair about what real love is. Love is a choice. And I am realizing that my wife has chosen to love me over the years.
3. This affair has brought me back to my wife. I am pursuing her and want to renew my marriage vows to her
4. Sex. Well. I want to have sex with my wife. She said she wants to have sex too. 

I am a broken, sinful person. I have bipolar 2 and am an adult adoptee. I see a counselor and a shrink. I am on meds.
I also go through cycles of drinking and am much better if I DONT drink at all. 
I have had a pornography addiction for many, many years which has caused me to have PIED (Porn Induced Erectile Dysfunction). 
194 days ago I stopped looking at porn. I stopped masturbating completely (nofap) for 142 days in a row.
It has cured my ED. I did get viagra from my doctor as an aid. He feels that I might have ED from performance anxiety and it has helped his patients in this area. He said some men use it for a while and then don't need it any more.

Since I stopped my porn addiction I have looked at my wife in a completely different way. I realized that all these past years it has been 100% my fault that our marriage got to where it is now.

If I stopped my porn habit 26 years ago I wonder how great our marriage would be and how great I would have been treating and loving my wife all these years.

My wife is working out now and losing some body fat. I asked her if I could buy her a bike and that I wanted to bike with her this summer. She is really excited and we are probably going to buy a bike she has been looking at tonight.

I have NOT told her about the affair. My counselor, my shrink, and many, many others have counseled me to not say anything. Ever.

Others say the opposite. That I should tell her and then deal with the consequences. If that means she wants to divorce me or separate, or whatever.

At this point I have no intention on telling her.

I am here for advice and feedback. It maybe is not the best place. 

The NoFap website has been wonderful and really helpful. It is for men who have PIED and have been healed and have brought that back into their marriages and have begun having sex with their wives again.

Some are living in damaged marriages and are really screwing up and go back and forth 

Some have had multiple affairs. some are divorced. Some are separated.

Anyway. 1.5 months ago I called it quits with my affair partner. It has been hard. We were so intimate emotionally. There is a huge whole in my life.

I know 100% what I did was wrong. I know 100% breaking it off for good is the right thing to do.

I know 100% quitting porn and masturbation was the right thing to do.

I have masturbated recently but not to porn. 

Anyway. It might have not been good to come back here. I dont know.


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## Tron

Are you looking for a pat on the back?

This is what I see:


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## bagelboy

No. Not here for a pat on the back.


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## Prodigal

You want to "save" your marriage. You have had sex with your affair partner again. You aren't going to tell your wife.

Y'know, I get the feeling you are pulling our legs.


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## Blondilocks

You need to tell your wife so that her doctor can check her for sexually transmitted diseases. You have no idea how many other men your affair partner was spinning her 'poor me' story to. And, believe me, you were not a special snowflake for her. 

Give your wife a modicum of respect and tell her. You may be saving her life.


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## bagelboy

Prodigal said:


> You want to "save" your marriage. You have had sex with your affair partner again. You aren't going to tell your wife.
> 
> Y'know, I get the feeling you are pulling our legs.


Had sex, intercourse once.


Im not lying.


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## Prodigal

bagelboy said:


> You are evil. … How insensitive and cruel.
> 
> How are you so conceited? You dont know her at all.


If you don't like what she has to say, you can put her on "ignore" quite easily.

Okay, when you start telling another poster they are "evil" because you don't agree with what they have to say THAT is name-calling. Not necessary.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

bagelboy said:


> I can 100% without a doubt guarantee she has not had sex with any other men.
> 
> You are evil. Do you have any idea what it would be like to be
> Forced into an arranged marriage? "Poor me?"
> Omg. How insensitive and cruel.
> 
> How are you so conceited? You dont know her at all.


?????

WTF does your affair partners unfortunate background have to do with you potentially exposing your wife to an STD?

What's evil is you endangering your wife and keeping her in the dark about it.


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## bagelboy

Im done here.
A bunch of angry, angry women.

Later.

Btw.

When my marriage becomes awesome and great...which it will become...

Remember people can change and some of you are so angry and hurt I dont think you will ever be happy.

Also, im guessing there are some women who have never, ever gotten to the place of forgiveness. 

Living in anger all your life and looking at men through that lense ...i feel sad for you 

Time for me to move on and go make my marriage great....

Later.

*Moderator Note:- **Yes. You are done.*


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## Blondilocks

Okay, I'm evil and you're short. Now that we've gotten the foreplay out of the way - you still need to tell your wife.


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## stefanjames

If you don't like what she has to say, you can put her on "ignore" quite easily.

Okay, when you start telling another poster they are "evil" because you don't agree with what they have to say THAT is name-calling. Not necessary.


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