# Don't know what to think



## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

My wife and I have been married just over thirty years. Here is some background information on us. It is the first marriage for both of us. Our children are grown. Everything was great in our relationship until the last month or so. I retired from my first career and have started a second career. We both work full-time in separate offices, but geographically close to each other. Our love life was great until about the last month. I suddenly developed ED out of nowhere about two weeks ago. I feel the same desire for her, but physically I am not working as I should. It's frustrating for me and must be for her too.
Over the last month I feel like she has drifted away from me emotionally. There is no offer of holding hands or small kisses or any of the other ways we showed we loved each other unless I initiate the contact. When she gets home from work she immerses herself in her reading and is uncommunicative for hours. At night when she goes to bed it is often without saying good night or anything at all.
I have told her that I felt we were drifting apart. She says it is all in my mind and goes right back to reading. I love her with all my heart. I don't want to lose us.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> I don't want to lose us.


Too late.

It's over. Your wife is EXACTLY my wife, only I lost mine years ago. She never came back. Yours won't either. They rarely do.

Oh, and it WAS something you did. But she won't tell you. And when you drag it out of her, it will all make sense.

Good luck. You're in for a ride.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

MrK said:


> Too late.
> 
> It's over. Your wife is EXACTLY my wife, only I lost mine years ago. She never came back. Yours won't either. They rarely do.
> 
> ...


So, what did you do? What should we do?


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

MrK said:


> Too late.
> 
> It's over. Your wife is EXACTLY my wife, only I lost mine years ago. She never came back. Yours won't either. They rarely do.
> 
> ...


Not necessarily. He only just started having trouble in his marriage. Perhaps his wife is concerned that his ED is a reflection of how he feels about her and is upset about that.

MrK you've actually given me a lot of solid advice in the past, but lately your posts have really been doom and gloom for the most part. Not every situation is destined to end terribly.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

MrK said:


> Too late.
> 
> It's over. Your wife is EXACTLY my wife, only I lost mine years ago. She never came back. Yours won't either. They rarely do.
> 
> ...


This is my fear; that there is nothing I can do. She doesn't show any signs of having an affair. There is no unaccounted for time or unexplained absences or anything like that. There are no strange phone calls during the evening. It just seems that she is no longer interested in anything.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Sorry for the doom and gloom. But his wife acts EXACTLY like mine. And it is over for us.

What did I do about it? I started living my own life (no, she doesn't care what I do).

I have come to the conclusion recently that ALL wives fall out of love with their husbands. And I'll bet they're STILL not talking about it in pre-marriage classes and seminars.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> I had no strange phone calls either. Doesn't necessarily mean anything.
> 
> When did this start or when did you notice? Last 2 months
> What have you two been doing for fun? Nothing lately
> ...


We talked earlier today for the first time in a week. I had to write her a letter to get conversation out of her. Since then she has crawled right back into her Kindle cocoon.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

What have you done to address your ED?


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> We talked earlier today for the first time in a week. I had to write her a letter to get conversation out of her. Since then she has crawled right back into her Kindle cocoon.


So, what did you all talk about? 

Could you give us a readers digest version?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> This is my fear; that there is nothing I can do. She doesn't show any signs of having an affair. There is no unaccounted for time or unexplained absences or anything like that. There are no strange phone calls during the evening. It just seems that she is no longer interested in anything.


She could be having medical or psych issues herself right now.

You can only control yourself. You cannot control how she feels about you. So stop worrying so much about her and pay more attention to yourself.

Sudden ED sounds very much like you should be at the docs office yesterday. There are probably dozens of possible causes, some which are minor and some which are serious. If you can go directly to a Urologist that is what I would do. If you need a referral first, go see your primary care and be insistent that you go to a specialist.

I would not settle for a Rx for Viagra without first getting a good solid workup. If all you need is a little pill, great!!!

ED is a possible early warning for several bad things, but they can be effectively dealt with if caught early.

Women can have unexpected reactions to ED issues. Some may worry it is their fault, some may think it is proof you are in an affair, some may think you are no longer manly, some may think of it as no more than a minor inconvenience to wait for the pill to take effect. I would not read into your wife's response anything specific until you've had some good conversations with her.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Yes I'm interested in the talk and what you and she feels right now and understands about ED.

As selfish as it might sound to a man suffering from ED.... is she be taking it personally? Does she believe that your body is no longer desiring her..thus the ED. Women often blame themselves for their mens lack of erection. Once again it comes back to hers (and yours) understanding of ED and the causes. Her disconnecting from you and pulling away may be due to feeling hurt and undesirable... I dunno... I'm just putting (female) thoughts out there for her behaviour.

As elegirl said...what are you doing to address the ED? You need to at least be sure this isn't connected to any other health concerns.

Personally I don't see why this needs to be a doom and gloom for your marriage. It's a big old bump in the road for sure but if you can keep the communication going you may well be able to sort this out...whatever the outcome. 

This is a new problem... not the chronic years long issue that many on TAM live with.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

waiwera said:


> Yes I'm interested in the talk and what you and she feels right now and understands about ED.
> 
> As selfish as it might sound to a man suffering from ED.... is she be taking it personally? Does she believe that your body is no longer desiring her..thus the ED. Women often blame themselves for their mens lack of erection. Once again it comes back to hers (and yours) understanding of ED and the causes. Her disconnecting from you and pulling away may be due to feeling hurt and undesirable... I dunno... I'm just putting (female) thoughts out there for her behaviour.
> 
> ...


I thought about that as well.. That she might feel that it's her fault... that she isn't attractive enough and that's why you're having ED issues. 

And rather than risk rejection... she has distanced herself.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

Reader's Digest version of our talk: 
I said I felt like she had withdrawn from our relationship.
She said she didn't think so.
She doesn't seem terribly concerned about the ED. Her only reply, "Go to the doctor." 
I researched the ED. The cholesterol med the doc put me on in June has been shown to cause ED. 

I am beginning to suspect at least an emotional affair. She has an old-fashioned cell phone that basically only sends/receives texts. Yesterday afternoon I fell asleep in my chair and when I woke up she was looking at something on her phone and giggling. Today I looked at her phone and she has completely deleted all incoming and outgoing texts and phone numbers. In the past they would build up to where there were so many she was forced to delete some. 
I am to the point that whatever happens is what happens. If she is going to leave, she is going to leave.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Reader's Digest version of our talk:
> I said I felt like she had withdrawn from our relationship.
> She said she didn't think so.
> She doesn't seem terribly concerned about the ED. Her only reply, "Go to the doctor."
> ...


Oh dear... any other 'red flags'?
Such as changes in the way she dresses, how she uses the phone (other than what you stated) or computer, names of new people being mentioned, unexpected trips out, moodiness for no reason, unfairly negative and critical of you, picking fights etc...

Can you see the cell phone bill to check for any reoccurring #'s or CC for unexplained expenses?

No matter what the end result... communication is always the key.

Why are you so quick to give up...*" if she leaves she leaves"*. Is there more going on than this issue?


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> I am beginning to suspect at least an emotional affair. She has an old-fashioned cell phone that basically only sends/receives texts. Yesterday afternoon I fell asleep in my chair and when I woke up she was looking at something on her phone and giggling. Today I looked at her phone and she has completely deleted all incoming and outgoing texts and phone numbers. In the past they would build up to where there were so many she was forced to delete some.


Their is no doubt in my mind that there is someone else that she is involved with. Get on line and check your cell phone usage. Look for a large number of texts from an unknown number and then do a search on that number (you might have to pay for it). If it's a guy you don't know (or even if it's a guy you do know), you may want to consider calling it. Time to get tough.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

> I researched the ED. The cholesterol med the doc put me on in June has been shown to cause ED.


Perhaps you need to talk to the doctor about another med, or reducing your cholesterol in other ways. If you want to address this, then you need to be more proactive about it.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Reader's Digest version of our talk:
> I said I felt like she had withdrawn from our relationship.
> She said she didn't think so.
> She doesn't seem terribly concerned about the ED. Her only reply, "Go to the doctor."
> ...


She may have just cleaning up her old texts, but keep an eye on it.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

MrK said:


> I have come to the conclusion recently that ALL wives fall out of love with their husbands. And I'll bet they're STILL not talking about it in pre-marriage classes and seminars.


This is ridiculous. Stop with the misogyny, ok? All you do lately is trash women, and no-one seems to even bat an eye. Give it a break.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

northernlights said:


> This is ridiculous. Stop with the misogyny, ok? All you do lately is trash women, and no-one seems to even bat an eye. Give it a break.


 :iagree:

Thank you...well said!


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

northernlights said:


> This is ridiculous. Stop with the misogyny, ok? All you do lately is trash women, and no-one seems to even bat an eye. Give it a break.


Completely.


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## Wiserforit (Dec 27, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Reader's Digest version of our talk:
> I said I felt like she had withdrawn from our relationship.
> She said she didn't think so.
> She doesn't seem terribly concerned about the ED. Her only reply, "Go to the doctor."
> ...


The opening post was enough to demonstrate she views you as an adversary at present.

But this really clinches it. There isn't anything you can say once they've made this decision because all you will get is denial, evasion, blame-shifting, etc.

So you have to start taking action. Busting the affair is probably wise as a starter so time to go into 007 spy mode. Check out the Coping With Infidelity page on tips.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Look up the phone/text bill. Eliminate that idea if you can. Get a doctors appt. First thing tomorrow. You should not have waited this long.
Btw, is her phone glued to her hip or does she leave it laying around?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

An old fashioned phone is in your favor for snooping. No stealthy apps to hide her messaging.

Learn how to quickly access her emails and text messages on that phone. Watch her patterns. You have already identified she usually lets messages pile up until she is forced to delete them. So keep an eye out to see if this is a new pattern.

Ditto her email and social media accounts. Learn her patterns. Does she clean out the inbox every day, or does she let crud accumulate?

Do look at the last year or more of phone bills to see if her phone and/or text usage has changed. If something looks odd, go ahead and look up the phone number. It may be worth paying a short term subscription to get the info for multiple phone numbers.

Don't trust the entries in her own contact lists. Cheaters will use a fake name for their affair partner.

Check out her Facebook and other social media pages. Look at her closest friend's pages too. For example if she is always going out with a particular friend for dinner, look at the friend's page to see if there is more data there.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

northernlights said:


> This is ridiculous. Stop with the misogyny, ok? All you do lately is trash women, and no-one seems to even bat an eye. Give it a break.


I'm not bashing women. In order of who I'm bashing:

1 - Whoever is responsibility it it to educate married couples on how women's brains work so that we men don't continue to force our wives out of the marriage. NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS!!!

2 - Us idiot husbands for being stupid.

3 - Walk-away wives that don't tell us they've walked, let alone why.

OP, she may be cheating, but catching her will fix your marriage...how, exactly? She doesn't give a crap about your ED. It's less gross sex time she has to endure.

You can all hassle me all you want, but walk-away-wives are a serious, real and VERY COMMON issue. BUT I'm the only one talking about it here? And getting BASHED FOR IT?

OK. I'm out. I've made my point. Do the 180 and live your life for you. Screw her.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

Mrk may have a slight point in this case.

It kinda tweaks my brain to something when 30 years of "perfect" suddenly goes sideways for no apparent reason. 

The kids are now grown and out of the house. Big red flag to me.... that she may have just waited it out until then. Perfect for him, maybe not for her. Which is what MrK clarified. nobody is talking about that part. 

Understandibly, if she's having an affair, that should be dealt with first. The reasons why would come later. Does that make it easier MrK? Gotta clear the dealbreakers before getting into the walk away.


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## northernlights (Sep 23, 2012)

You're bashing women when you say that "ALL wives fall out of love with their husbands." Because women, you know, we're so fickle we can't even stay in love with our husbands. 

Listen, there is no "walk-away" issue in marriage confined to wives. Some _spouses _appear to leave abruptly, but this is not more common among women than men. What is real here is that men are _more likely_ to physically and verbally abuse their wives, and women are likely to take it while the kids are young, and then leave when they can. There is no mystery epidemic here. It's just that women finally don't have to take abuse.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

northernlights said:


> You're bashing women when you say that "ALL wives fall out of love with their husbands." Because women, you know, we're so fickle we can't even stay in love with our husbands.
> 
> Listen, there is no "walk-away" issue in marriage confined to wives. Some _spouses _appear to leave abruptly, but this is not more common among women than men. What is real here is that men are _more likely_ to physically and verbally abuse their wives, and women are likely to take it while the kids are young, and then leave when they can. There is no mystery epidemic here. It's just that women finally don't have to take abuse.


I treated my wife like a queen and still got the ilybnilwy speech.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brokenhearted118 (Jan 31, 2013)

Just an adjunct thought. I may be wrong on this, but if your wife has her kindle or nook with her at all times, she may be using that device for texting too. Just remember the cell phone is not always the culprit people utilize to cheat. That would explain whey she is always disappearing with the "reader".


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

brokenhearted118 said:


> Just an adjunct thought. I may be wrong on this, but if your wife has her kindle or nook with her at all times, she may be using that device for texting too. Just remember the cell phone is not always the culprit people utilize to cheat. That would explain whey she is always disappearing with the "reader".


HMMMM
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Just a few things I noticed...

1. You stated that your ED started after you noticed the distancing. ED can be psychological as well as medical, so keep that in mind. It could very well be a combination of the two combined. 
2. Coming from a woman's standpoint, an "emotional affair" probably means that she is missing something at home. It may seem super small or insignificant but something probably changed between you two and it went unnoticed until her behavior started to reflect it. Also, she may have built up some kind of resentment towards you for any number of things.
3. If you are telling her that you have concerns about where the relationship is headed and she brushes you off with a "it's fine" without even trying to reassure you through talking about specifics, it's probably NOT fine.
4. If you are both willing to try counseling, it may not be over just yet. There could still be hope. With that said, without her side of things, and not knowing what she is thinking, she could have already checked out completely. There's just no way to know without more answers about why this is happening.
5. If this doesn't get addressed soon, preferably by a counselor since she seems to be avoiding working directly with you without a mediator, then it will be too late.

Best of luck to you OP.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

MrK said:


> I'm not bashing women. In order of who I'm bashing:
> 
> 1 - Whoever is responsibility it it to educate married couples on how women's brains work so that we men don't continue to force our wives out of the marriage. NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS!!!
> 
> ...


Once folks took the emotion out of their thinking, they realized you really did had something important to say. I think you have a lot of valid points. It's just difficult to see them on a site where emotions run so high.


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## doubletrouble (Apr 23, 2013)

My body knew before my mind did about my W's affair. It manifested itself in ED. I was stunned, because I didn't know why.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

brokenhearted118 said:


> Just an adjunct thought. I may be wrong on this, but if your wife has her kindle or nook with her at all times, she may be using that device for texting too. Just remember the cell phone is not always the culprit people utilize to cheat. That would explain whey she is always disappearing with the "reader".


I just discovered today that she has changed the password for her Facebook account. It has been the same forever.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she uses the home pc at all keylog it.

Hiding a password at this point is a huge redflag.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Check the phone bill for to see who she is texting/calling and how much.

Women in affairs, often but not always, make excuses for not having sex with their husbands since that would be cheating on their affair partner.

How long has sex been "painful" for her?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

BTW, google bought facebook, if I am not mistaken, I have had trouble with all my acts passwords with google involved.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

OP,

Understand that these guys are leading you down a path to protect you financially as well as prepare you for divorce. They do know what they are doing. 

These findings, when gathered in evidence will attempt to shock her into dropping any affair and turning back to look at the marriage. Be prepared to take charge if you want your marriage back. 

There will be a crucial point that will need quick decisive action or the marriage will be lost. It is that far along and they know it. 

If you decide you do not want the marriage, all they tell you will help to keep you as safe as possible. These guys know what they are doing.


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Reader's Digest version of our talk:
> I said I felt like she had withdrawn from our relationship.
> She said she didn't think so.
> She doesn't seem terribly concerned about the ED. Her only reply, "Go to the doctor."
> ...


Affair or WAW (nods to Mr.K).

If she is having an affair, you need to take the steps to try & end it. Earlier you said you loved her dearly & want to stay married. I understand your emotions are all over the place right now but you need to fight for your 30-yr. marriage!

If you are not an abuser and/or an addict, I don't see a WAW here. I think she is having an EA - may be one sided at this point. She is still in the fog. Gather your evidence & bust it wide open.

I know too many good marriages that were destroyed by affair-fog & once the fog cleared, the cheating spouse regretted that not only their marriages ended but their comfortable lifestyles.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm just advising not to put all of your apples in the "affair" basket. She may just not be into you any more. I'm as close to 100% positive as you can be that my wife didn't have an affair. And your wife is as close to mine in behavior as any I've heard described here. And it's all because she really doesn't like or respect me. She just walked. Between reviewing all of your text logs and keylogger data and VAR garbled conversations, and conniving with your spy-buddies here, read up on threads where the wife just lost interest. Heck, it's what led to the affair in the first place, right?


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

I'll start you out. Very first thread I opened after posting the above. It's not EXACTLY the same. But the only difference is he got the ILYBINILWY speech, you didn't. Otherwise the same thing. It manifests itself in many different ways (hence all of the "she's cheating" posts). 

Enjoy.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/general-relationship-discussion/108250-crossroad.html


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

MrK said:


> I'm just advising not to put all of your apples in the "affair" basket. She may just not be into you any more. I'm as close to 100% positive as you can be that my wife didn't have an affair. And your wife is as close to mine in behavior as any I've heard described here. And it's all because she really doesn't like or respect me. She just walked. Between reviewing all of your text logs and keylogger data and VAR garbled conversations, and conniving with your spy-buddies here, read up on threads where the wife just lost interest. Heck, it's what led to the affair in the first place, right?


You make a good point. I witnessed this happen to a good friend of mine. His wife woke up one day and said I am not attracted to you anymore. I thought that there was somebody else in his wife's life. He assured me there wasn't. Turns out he was right. She literally has had zero interest in any man since they split. I thought for sure her "hidden" affair partner would pop up at some point, but its been over two years and honestly all she cares about are the kids it seems. My wife is still good friends with his ex, and they have the most boring girls night ins imaginable. Its like she decided she didn't need a husband or any other romantic involvement in her life anymore. She says she would not get married again.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MrK said:


> I'm just advising not to put all of your apples in the "affair" basket. She may just not be into you any more.


Quite possible. My wife just up and decided the marriage was done, but she would wait for another 7 years until the youngest graduated high school. She of course said nothing to me about this revelation or her plans! I did notice she had checked out. At that time we had teen girls with enough typical drama that I felt it better to try to keep the marriage together, so I did not blow it up.

So my wife was content for the marriage to stay in a holding pattern, and I was most concerned with not shaking it up too much in case it killed the marriage.

Anyhow, OP's wife may have checked out of the marriage emotionally but she is unwilling to D because of some underlying concerns. Maybe financial or retirement. Lots of possibilities.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

Does anybody have any experience with women going through menopause? I have never been around a woman going through this so I have no idea. I know she is having hot flashes big time. 
I just cannot find room in her day for an affair. She goes to work at the same time as always. She gets home at the same time as always. There are no unexplained absences or having to work late at the last minute. 
I am probably being naive and might even be setting myself up to get hurt, but I just don't see any choice here. I have to believe that we just got so wrapped up in living our lives that we forgot about taking care of "us". If I sit around dwelling on it I will make myself sick. This probably doesn't make any sense, but for my own sanity I have to choose to love her and trust her and believe in her. If I find out down the road that I was wrong, well at least I made the best effort I could.
Thanks to all of you for the advice.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

There may not be an affair. It may be an online/texting affair though. Check your phone bill and see if there is a number caleed texted a lot. Check her email and facebook too.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Trust your gut. Most men who find out about an affair will say they knew it in their gut even though there was no hard evidence. But it seems you are saying you know something is wrong but it doesn't feel like there is another man in her life.

Whether or not there' an affair, you know your marriage needs some tending. So that is where I would start. Reflect on what you can do to just be a better person, and think about how you'd like the marriage to be. Then I would try talking to her about working together to come up with a vision of what you would both like (in every way) in your futures.

I think it unlikely she would appear to be genuinely enthusiastic in working on the marriage if she is in an affair. And if there is no affair but she is disinterested in the marriage, she will also not participate enthusiastically. In either situation you will have solid data that the marriage is one sided.

We're spring loaded here on TAM to see affairs, but in a way it does not matter what the root cause is of her disaffection.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Does anybody have any experience with women going through menopause? I have never been around a woman going through this so I have no idea. I know she is having hot flashes big time.
> I just cannot find room in her day for an affair. She goes to work at the same time as always. She gets home at the same time as always. There are no unexplained absences or having to work late at the last minute.
> I am probably being naive and might even be setting myself up to get hurt, but I just don't see any choice here. I have to believe that we just got so wrapped up in living our lives that we forgot about taking care of "us". If I sit around dwelling on it I will make myself sick. This probably doesn't make any sense, but for my own sanity I have to choose to love her and trust her and believe in her. If I find out down the road that I was wrong, well at least I made the best effort I could.
> Thanks to all of you for the advice.


Menopause is a b!tch. My wife became distant, uncaring to me and only pity sex. It started 10 years ago with perimenopause. At leat I think thats wjats going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

I see yellow alert not red.
1) does she work out side of the house?
What hours?
2) Is she home when you are not?

Here is my standard plan. I just copy paste it. I would do the var thing fast along with what others have posted about figuring out what is going on on her cell plan. Sometimes there is an activity report online. If anything I smell early EA with someone sniffing around your wife. Then again... LETS HOPE...

Your wife is acting funny. Her phone and email suddenly have passwords you don't know. She shuts down phone apps or changes windows on the computer whenever you enter the room. She is suddenly staying out until 2 to 5 in the morning. She has new single friends. She is distant. She has lost weight and is dressing hotter to boot. Her ex contacted her 3 weeks ago and she wants “to meet to catch up at some public place” Any of this sound familiar? 

If you are reading this your gut is going crazy. “Relax”, in that there is a high liklihood that you are not crazy at least. “Your gut” is your basic instinct from the caveman period. There is something up with your mate. It is part of your mind built into you and in your DNA. You probably cant sleep. You are losing weight like crazy and are not hungry. Well if you are reading this and that is 90% of you reading this if its your first time... You are embarking on what is probably going to be the worst time of your life.

Chin up, yes I know it is damn near impossible to believe now, but I and the people at TAM here have taken dozens of men through this process. Some reconcile, most dont in the long run so be aware. Most of us hang around this grim grim place for a sense of “pay it forward” and “getting at the truth” Even in divorce, the long run the majority find love again... yes really. Often selecting a far far better future companion. Read poster BFF for a thread of disaster, divorce, recovery, and a new wonderful woman in his life. Younger and hotter, yes, but also one with better boundaries, often a far far better personality match. Oh and they get to go through that first time with her after the first I love you's have been exchanged. Just know, that for the majority, even if the marriage crashes, in six months, a year, maybe two you will wonder how you got so far so fast and how great your new life is. You will also be MUCH MUCH stronger as a person.

So. Here are your instructions. Do this now. I dont mean next week. I mean make something up within the next day and GET IT DONE! Not looking will only prolong your agony.

NO MORE CONFRONTS!! Play dumb husband for a bit. Dont drive her further underground! Soft confronts RARELY WORK AND ONLY MAKE GETTING AT THE TRUTH HARDER!!! THIS PROLONGS YOUR AGONY! NEVER give up you get your intel from the VAR. You tell her, you always got your info from a PI or someone saw them. Hard confronts with overwhelming evidence to crush all resistance are the name of the game.

Buy 2 sony ICDPX312 voice activated recorders. Best Buy sells them for like 50 bucks. DO NOT BUY THE cheapies. USE LITHIUM batteries. We have examples of 25 hour recordings using them on these sony recorders. My icon IS a Sony ICDPX312. No I do not have stock in nor work for Sony.

Setup instructions are on page 19. Also good stuff on page 31.
Use 44K bit rate for balancing file size vs quality DO NOT USE 8K!!!!! Simply put. The higher the quality the better the sound and 8K sucks. ALSO. The higher the quality the more you can manipulate the mp3 in Audacity.
Set VOR "on" see page 38
See page 40 for adding memory if necessary
Play with it yourself to get familiar. TEST IT OUT 
Turn off the beep feature. Its on one of the menus. You can even play prevent defense by going to a dollar store, buying uber-cheapie earbuds, cut off the buds but put in the jack which will actually disable the speaker for additional protection.

Go to Walmart and buy heavy duty velcro.
This is one item: Velcro Heavy-Duty Hook and Loop Fastener: Office : Walmart.com
also
Purchase VELCRO Hook and Loop Fasteners, Sticky-Back, for less at Walmart.com. Save money. Live better.

Use the velcro to attach the var under her seat UP INSIDE. SECURE IT WELL!!!!!! So well even a big bump wont knock it off. attach one side HD velcro from Walmart to back. USE BIG PIECE
attach other side HD velcro again UP INSIDE car seat. 

ATTACH THE CRAP out of it. It needs to stay put going over big potholes or railroad tracks.
I recommend exporting the sound files to your comp. The recorder is very cumbersome for playback.

Put the second VAR in whatever room she uses to talk in when you are not around. If you are a typical man, use your size advantage to put it someplace she cant reach, even on a chair. Beware spring cleaning season if she does it.

Usual warning. If you hear another man and perhaps a little kissing or... STOP Listening and have a trusted friend listen and tell you what went on. Knowing she is a cheat will kill you. Hearing her moan while another man is inside her will murder you to your very soul!!!!!! You are not strong enough to hear that. Dont try it. I know what I am talking about in this.

If you need clean up the recordings get Audacity. Its free from the internet. I have used it on var work for others here to remove things like engine noise. If needed, I have done var work for three men here. RDMU is the only one who has released some of the confidentiality. Read his second thread for my reliability and confidentiality. NEVER GIVE UP YOUR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE. They were seen by a PI or something NOT your VAR!!

The ezoom GPS has been found to be easy to buy at Radio shack and useful.

Look for a burner phone. That is often why wives let the husband "see their phone"

Look for apps on her phone like words with friends. It has a non traceable texting feature.
Here is a list 25 Apps to Help You Cheat On Your Girlfriend | Complex


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

OP - menopause is different for every woman. BTW - 'menopause' is when a woman hasn't had a period for 12 month or longer, if she still has periods she is in peri-menopause.

I'm well into peri menopause and I'm sex mad... hubby can barely keep up 

I've never has a hot flashes or night sweat.. which are the usual symptoms talked about. Some women experience no symptoms.
For me it's just PMS worse than it ever was before and without the usual cycle, the symptoms/feelings can occur more randomly. It hasn't been fun for either of us.

I'm pretty sure I've read that women end marriages more during these years than any other time in their lives.

Personally I believe it's because they are more likely to be financial stable, kids are older and many of them gave up on the marriage years ago both emotionally and sexually...they disconnected.

At first the husbands thought this pull back and quietness is cool...all must be good. She's not complaining.

Then one day she leaves and the husband is shocked.... but it didn't come from no where.... it's been festering away for years.

Not saying it's what's happening in your case OP... it's just often what I see happen in my circles of friends/acquaintances and in the case of my sister.

Whether it's menopause or an affair or if she is going to walk...good communication is the only way to resolve the situation.

But you need her co-operation for that.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

OP. NO confronts and gather your evidence.

Sorry folks the FB password thing is a GIANT red flag enough to warrant doing my plan.

OP. Get it DONE NOW. It may or may not be any affair but it may "only" be the beginnings of an EA. EAs are a slippery slope to PAs often. If this is an affair he may be able to get ahead of it and c0ckblock, but he needs to get on this.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> Does anybody have any experience with women going through menopause? I have never been around a woman going through this so I have no idea. I know she is having hot flashes big time.
> I just cannot find room in her day for an affair. She goes to work at the same time as always. She gets home at the same time as always. There are no unexplained absences or having to work late at the last minute.
> I am probably being naive and might even be setting myself up to get hurt, but I just don't see any choice here. I have to believe that we just got so wrapped up in living our lives that we forgot about taking care of "us". If I sit around dwelling on it I will make myself sick. This probably doesn't make any sense, but for my own sanity I have to choose to love her and trust her and believe in her. If I find out down the road that I was wrong, well at least I made the best effort I could.
> Thanks to all of you for the advice.


I would say you are making a sound point here, there is a possibility of an affair, and a good possibility of none.

Anyway, I would advise you to work on yourself, get healthy, get confident, get strong mentally and physical.

This will work out great for any relation, AND for your ED.

The cholesterol issue is in my opinion not-existing, I believe the cholesterol skeptics side of the story. Maybe you could check this out and see what you believe.

If you cut the sugar out of your diet, and most of the terrible food choices that contain sugar, it might very well be your ED is over.

Combined with strength training and cardio, I personally am convinced it will be.

That new you coming out of such a transformation will look to a whole new life. With her, or with someone else who values you more than she does.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

About the menopause thing:

I still have not experienced any negative issues like you hear/read about. But we both live and eat healty, and sport a lot.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

I have type 2 diabetes that is under control with pills, diet, and exercise. I have a doctor appointment to discuss ED just to be safe. I am committed to keeping my love affair with this woman. If it fails it will not be because I didn't love her and give 'us' my best effort. I also believe she is having a tough time with the pre-menopause thing. Could be messing with her head?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Good for you for taking care of you and for wanting to fight for her! Yes, any stage of menopause could be causing her internal anguish. Her hormones could be all over the place and may not even be fully aware of it herself. Without going back through the post to check, I seem to remember you saying that you've tried to talk to her and she was rather dismissive but you've had great communication in the past. It appears she's been fairly level-headed up until the last few months. Talk to her again. Find a time when she's relaxed and not busy and ask her if she could find the time to have a heart-to-heart. If you give her a heads up that there is a possibly emotional conversation in the near future, she might be more receptive of it. Don't use definite words and phrases like "you are", "never/always", etc. Use things like "I feel..." and "sometimes". Start out by saying that you've tried talking about this before and FELT that she was dismissive of it. That there are things that are bothering you and you feel that they are important enough to warrant talking about fully. 
Please keep us updated. I'm rooting for you OP!


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

It could be nothing but there is enough red flags to warrant snooping. At the VERY LEAST get the VAR in her car.

This is your life and your marriage dude. Don't take chances with them.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

We have had some lengthy discussions this week, improved our communications, and seem to have reconnected a lot. This however is nagging at me. I posted a status on facebook about how much she means to me. Nothing unusual for me; I have never been shy about sharing my feelings. Several of her friends saw it and commented about it to her. She seemed embarrassed by it. She said the reason was that the wife of someone who works in their office posted something similar and a short time later they divorced. She doesn't want other people in the office thinking we are having problems. This sounds pretty thin to me. I thought women liked having men display their love publicly?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> We have had some lengthy discussions this week, improved our communications, and seem to have reconnected a lot. This however is nagging at me. I posted a status on facebook about how much she means to me. Nothing unusual for me; I have never been shy about sharing my feelings. Several of her friends saw it and commented about it to her. She seemed embarrassed by it. She said the reason was that the wife of someone who works in their office posted something similar and a short time later they divorced. She doesn't want other people in the office thinking we are having problems. This sounds pretty thin to me. I thought women liked having men display their love publicly?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Ok serious red flags here. You NEED to start investigating. Read what weightlifter posted.



weightlifter said:


> I see yellow alert not red.
> 1) does she work out side of the house?
> What hours?
> 2) Is she home when you are not?
> ...


What kind of kindle does she have. Is it the fire?

You said her phone is old, is yours? If so break it and use it as an excuse to upgrade both of yours to smart phones. That way you can put a spy app on hers. I suggest a Android, they're easier.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Personally I love it when my husband shouts to the world his undying love for me.

Does make me wonder why your wife reacted the way she did.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

waiwera said:


> Personally I love it when my husband shouts to the world his undying love for me.
> 
> Does make me wonder why your wife reacted the way she did.


Things have improved so much this week I wish I could just forget it and get on with being happy, but her reaction makes me think of someone who knows something that I don't. Maybe something that will make my declaration of love look silly. Just don't know what to think. There just isn't blank space in her day for her to be having an affair. She says our recent difficulties made her think of her co-worker's situation before his divorce. I know I'm not thinking of divorce. I'm not sure, despite her protestations otherwise, that maybe leaving is in her mind.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

Is she usually uncomfortable with PDA's?

Don't get too sidetracked by one comment though...see things as a whole.

Sometimes we can all say things without really thinking..

Although I would still be investigating her 'red flags'... just quietly for my own peace of mind.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

waiwera said:


> Is she usually uncomfortable with PDA's?
> 
> Don't get too sidetracked by one comment though...see things as a whole.
> 
> ...


No.I send her flowers sometimes for no reason, we routinely hold hands and/or kiss in public. One thing she has never been good at is expressing herself with words. She's smart, just not confident in writing or speaking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

He no longer works there and she blames him for divorce. Plus he is 25 years younger than us and has a pretty young girlfriend now. I hope it's just me being paranoid. I can't see her cheating. Her dad cheated badly on her mom and she still resents him for it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> He no longer works there and she blames him for divorce. Plus he is 25 years younger than us and has a pretty young girlfriend now. *I hope it's just me being paranoid. I can't see her cheating. Her dad cheated badly on her mom and she still resents him for it.*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


It will never hurt to make sure. There are plenty of stories here from betrayed spouses who thought their spouse would never cheat on them. The saying around here is trust but verify. It wouldn't kill you to at least check your cell phone records and invest in a VAR.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

I'm not sure where I'm going next. I think probably I'm going to have to trust her and try to put my fear behind me. I understand what you are saying about fighting for her. My way of fighting for her is to love her, treat her right, share with her emotionally and make her feel like the special person she is to me. If I do all that and she chooses someone else, then she doesn't deserve me.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> Ok serious red flags here. You NEED to start investigating. Read what weightlifter posted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If, and that is a huge if, something is going on I tend to believe her Kindle Fire would be the portal. She is on it constantly, though not as much since we talked about it. I've looked at it briefly. It doesn't appear that she has e-mail loaded on it, but I don't know since I'm not familiar with the device.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Refuse to be played (Jun 7, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> If, and that is a huge if, something is going on I tend to believe her Kindle Fire would be the portal. She is on it constantly, though not as much since we talked about it. I've looked at it briefly. It doesn't appear that she has e-mail loaded on it, but I don't know since I'm not familiar with the device.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well first thing first I'd get a VAR under her car seat. Might invest in a keylogger as well. It won't hurt to cast a wide net.

I honestly don't know much about the kindle but you should look for any free text apps on it. And look for games with a chat feature like Words with Friends or Scrabble.

Deleting stuff off the phone and the FB password change are troubling. I seriously suggest breaking her phone or yours and upgrading them both to some smartphones and putting a spy app on hers. Between an iphone or an android, I'd go with the android because they easier and faster to install. Here are links to both though:
Android Spy App | Android Monitoring Software | Mobile Spy

iPhone Spy Software – Mobile Spy iPhone Monitoring App

Don't stick your head in the sand. You could be catching this early.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

Refuse to be played said:


> Well first thing first I'd get a VAR under her car seat. Might invest in a keylogger as well. It won't hurt to cast a wide net.
> 
> I honestly don't know much about the kindle but you should look for any free text apps on it. And look for games with a chat feature like Words with Friends or Scrabble.
> 
> ...


Update on my situation: We had a weekend away this weekend. It started out rough, but ended well. We had some fun and got to spend some time alone together re-connecting. I probably made a big mistake, but I followed my heart and laid out my suspicions and the reasons I had started thinking it. Her response was to go through her phone and kindle with me then give me unrestricted access to them. My wife has never been a tech-savvy person. I just didn't find anything on either device to tell me she is having secret text or e-mail conversations. She did say she has been having issues with her hormones doing an imitation of a roller coaster. So, I am going to talk to my doctor and get my issue looked at and we are going to move forward.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MyHappyPlace (Aug 11, 2013)

Yay OP! Good for you. I really like that you just came out and talked to her instead of snooping around first. Kudos. I'm glad that things seem to be on the up and up. IMHO, if there is nothing going on, and she had caught you snooping, she would have felt as though you were the one betraying her. I always think communication should be the first avenue. I also believe that expressing your concerns and feelings toward a situation will bring better results than just asking questions. IE: I'm feeling this way because of behavior X vs. Are you having an affair?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Just for general info for anyone reading this, most cheaters delete the texts and calls to the ap. To check this you have to match up the phone bill to the phone. When using the computer/emails they delete and use the incognito function.

If you suspect an affair,never show your hand. 80% of affairs go undetected.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Good job. Accusing the woman who is falling out of love with you of cheating. And you had ZERO suspicions. Somehow, I don't think it helped. And how calm she was. You know why? Because an accusation of infidelity from you is just one more notch in the negative column. No biggie. She has other daily affirmations. But to YOU, thanks to the advice from everyone on this thread, it was a huge, meaningful moment. YOU think it went great because you didn't see anything. How wrong you were.

Some of you REALLY need to step back from the "she's cheating" mentality that pollutes this board. Sure, she locked her FB or whatever it was. It is JUST AS LIKELY that she is hiding her "I'm just not in love with him" communications to family and friends as she is communication to her lover. Either one she hides from him.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

Chaparral said:


> To check this you have to match up the phone bill to the phone.


Perfect. Do this then come back and everyone will start giving you the advice you need. So far all you have to even SUSPECT cheating is that she fell out of love with you. And her falling out of love with you is statistically a MUCH greater probability than an affair. 

What am I missing?


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

MrK said:


> Perfect. Do this then come back and everyone will start giving you the advice you need. So far all you have to even SUSPECT cheating is that she fell out of love with you. And her falling out of love with you is statistically a MUCH greater probability than an affair.
> 
> What am I missing?


I did look back four months on the phone bill. I used an online service to look up numbers I didn't know. I could not find any activity that was suspicious. There just wasn't anything there. I'm moving forward. If she comes to me someday and says she doesn't love me anymore or she found someone else, so be it. It will be her loss. For now we are closer than ever and I am going to enjoy it!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

If she was cheating and you asked her about it, she would probably have blown a gasket. Did she act amused by any chance?

Maybe she is just in a rut. Kindle,,reading etc. can be habit forming.

Concerning the ED, are you taking blood pressure medicine?


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## MambaZee (Aug 6, 2013)

Glad this worked out for the OP. 

I guess, based on my behavior, maybe my H would also suspect me of cheating. I'm in perimenopause, too, and it's been pretty bad. Sudden PMS symptoms where I never had them before, crying jags, etc. It's been a real PITA. This is on top of feeling emotionally disconnected from him due to major resentments. Our conversations only revolved around our kids, we didn't "date" anymore and I pulled away. So if he was a suspicious person, maybe he'd think that although I never cheated and gave no indications to make him think that, i.e. no Facebook posts (not on FB anyway), lots of text messages, etc. 

After hanging out here for a short while, I definitely see that lots of affairs happen but sometimes, behavior changes are something else, too.


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

MrK said:


> Sorry for the doom and gloom. But his wife acts EXACTLY like mine. And it is over for us.
> 
> What did I do about it? I started living my own life (no, she doesn't care what I do).
> 
> I have come to the conclusion recently that *ALL wives fall out of love with their husbands*. And I'll bet they're STILL not talking about it in pre-marriage classes and seminars.


 Not true at all. Not all woman are the same. I love my husband


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

Have you asked her what is wrong? I mean really sit down and talk to her. She may be depressed.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Not everyone cheats. Not everyone is faithful. Not everyone loves themselves all of the time. Not everyone has crap for self esteem all of the time. We are all human, none are perfect. 

Op, it sounds like your W has listened to your concerns and is putting forth effort. That's all you can ask. I think you handled the situation well!


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

GA HEART said:


> Not everyone cheats. Not everyone is faithful. Not everyone loves themselves all of the time. Not everyone has crap for self esteem all of the time. We are all human, none are perfect.
> 
> Op, it sounds like your W has listened to your concerns and is putting forth effort. That's all you can ask. I think you handled the situation well!



Thanks. To answer some questions; she was initially dumbfounded when I asked her if there was someone else. Then she got mad. Then after I explained where I was coming from she got concerned and wanted to help calm my fears. One other thing that may have affected us both without my realizing it is that our son got married and moved out a couple of months ago. I hadn't even thought about it as a possible catalyst for depression until just a couple of days ago.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> One other thing that may have affected us both without my realizing it is that our son got married and moved out a couple of months ago. I hadn't even thought about it as a possible catalyst for depression until just a couple of days ago.


Hi WKU, Are you two empty nesters now?


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

anchorwatch said:


> Hi WKU, Are you two empty nesters now?


Almost. We still have a daughter at home. We are patiently waiting for her to "find herself" and get on with her life. This is another source of stress for us.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Been there ourselves. It's a normal occurrence that not all of us are prepared for. You'd think we'd be ready for such a normal change of life. I guess while playing other roles we put being our spouse's lover down the list.

Empty nest syndrome 

Can Empty Nesters Still Have a Happy Marriage? 

I second reading the books 2ntnuf suggested. They really helped us get it back. Get them today.

A Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

Home | The 5 Love Languages®

No More Mr. Nice Guy

Married Man Sex Life | How to have the marriage you thought you were going to have.

Good luck.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

So I went to my doctor yesterday and started getting my issues worked on. I was surprised when I walked into the waiting room and my wife was sitting there waiting on me. She knew when my appointment was scheduled, but I had not asked or expected her to be there. Needless to say, I was so grateful to her for showing support. I really think we both are still very much in love. I think we got so busy with our lives that we forgot to take care of "us." Thanks anchorwatch for the resources. I've already read some of them and they brought up vital points to maintaining our marriage.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> So I went to my doctor yesterday and started getting my issues worked on.
> 
> *Nothing some exercise, diet and a little pill can't help.*
> 
> ...


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

I wasn't going to post this because it is personal, but decided to anyway. Someone going through a similar situation might see it and be motivated to get help. I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with depression. I've started taking meds and am waiting for it to kick in. In the meantime my wife has been an angel. She has been unbelievably understanding and supportive. She tells me every day she loves me. I'm still battling my fear of losing her, but at least we know what I am fighting. Thanks to all for the supportive words.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> I wasn't going to post this because it is personal, but decided to anyway. Someone going through a similar situation might see it and be motivated to get help. I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with depression. I've started taking meds and am waiting for it to kick in. In the meantime my wife has been an angel. She has been unbelievably understanding and supportive. She tells me every day she loves me. I'm still battling my fear of losing her, but at least we know what I am fighting. Thanks to all for the supportive words.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How did he explain his diagnosis.


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> How did he explain his diagnosis.


I'm not sure how to answer your question.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

WanttoKeepUs said:


> So I went to my doctor yesterday and started getting my issues worked on. I was surprised when I walked into the waiting room and my wife was sitting there waiting on me. She knew when my appointment was scheduled, but I had not asked or expected her to be there. Needless to say, I was so grateful to her for showing support. I really think we both are still very much in love. I think we got so busy with our lives that we forgot to take care of "us." Thanks anchorwatch for the resources. I've already read some of them and they brought up vital points to maintaining our marriage.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Wow! That is awesome. I think you have a good wife.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I was wondering how he figured out you were depressed. I was assuming you did not suspect depression.

How did your wife react to that? Did she suspect it before hand?


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## WanttoKeepUs (Aug 11, 2013)

I actually began to suspect depression when I kept having suspicions but found no evidence. That coupled with the ED made me look at depression. I had a lengthy visit with him and laid out the entire situation and that I suspected depression. He asked tons of questions and decided I was correct. My wife has been incredibly supportive. When I told her of his diagnosis she said she knew something was wrong, but didn't know what it was.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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