# WIFE will not allow my MOTHER to visit me in our home.



## skoloco

My WIFE will not allow my MOTHER to visit me in our home, even if she is not home. They cannot get along, and i can deal with that. We have children and my wife doesnt want my mother visiting with me and our kids, unless she is there to "supervise". And she has made it clear that this will only happen once a month. I would like my mom to come visit at our house and since they dont get along, i would like her to come over when my wife is away. In addition my wife will not allow me to take the kids to see her at her house, my wife refuses to go to my moms, therefore the kids cant go. Her main reason for this because my mom smokes, but not if the kids are in the house, and she obviously doesnt smoke in our house. My wifes controlling ways are destroying our relationship, and she feels like she has already compromised, and wont budge. She said not to let my mom in our house, but her reasons just dont add up. At this point i am ready to just allow my mother over next time the wife is away, and take what ever comes with it. If I tell her ahead of time, she will not leave the house. I have begged her to change her mind, but i have not made any progress, and its tearing me up inside. Should i have my mother over for a visit?


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## MEM2020

So let me get this straight. Your wife doesn't think you can keep your kids safe from your mother? 

Is that actually a valid fear? Is your mom truly a threat to your children? And are you unable to manage your mom? 

If not, is this just a matter of your wife punishing your mom because she doesn't like her? 

I ALWAYS put my wife first. But I never would have tolerated this crap if she had pulled it. I would have told her "My mom is coming to visit her grandchildren on X date/time" If she had tried to change her schedule to prevent a grandma visit I would have told her that grandma will see the kids either during their visitation hours with me, or as part of our marriage. Your choice. 

Your wife can only take your balls away if you let her. 



skoloco said:


> My WIFE will not allow my MOTHER to visit me in our home, even if she is not home. They cannot get along, and i can deal with that. We have children and my wife doesnt want my mother visiting with me and our kids, unless she is there to "supervise". And she has made it clear that this will only happen once a month. I would like my mom to come visit at our house and since they dont get along, i would like her to come over when my wife is away. In addition my wife will not allow me to take the kids to see her at her house, my wife refuses to go to my moms, therefore the kids cant go. Her main reason for this because my mom smokes, but not if the kids are in the house, and she obviously doesnt smoke in our house. My wifes controlling ways are destroying our relationship, and she feels like she has already compromised, and wont budge. She said not to let my mom in our house, but her reasons just dont add up. At this point i am ready to just allow my mother over next time the wife is away, and take what ever comes with it. If I tell her ahead of time, she will not leave the house. I have begged her to change her mind, but i have not made any progress, and its tearing me up inside. Should i have my mother over for a visit?


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## turnera

MEM11363 said:


> Your wife can only take your balls away if you let her.


Yep.

What else does she control? More info, please.


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## Susan2010

Honestly, skoloco, I don't believe you are being honest with your readers. I think you just want someone to justify your position that your wife is some kind of controlling monster. There has to be more to this story and more to your wife's reason(s) for not wanting the children in your mother's presence when she's not around, and smoking is not it. Now, tell us the truth. Your mother bad mouths your wife, doesn't she. She says awful things about her and/or calls her awful names. No woman would want her children exposed to that. If that isn't the problem, then perhaps your mom curses like a sailor. There is something she does that your wife vehemently objects to your children having to hear. C'mon. Tell us what it is.


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## scarletblue

If your wife is concerned about second hand smoke, then I can see why she doesn't want the kids to go over there. Even if she doesn't smoke while they're there, I'm sure it's in the air.

Other than that, your wife is using the kids to lash out at your mother. That is not fair to your children. They deserve a relationship with their grandmother. There are a lot of kids out there who are not fortunate enough to have grandparents in their lives, how cruel for your wife to deprive her children of that relationship. She is not only punishing your mother, she is punishing you and your kids. 

I agree with your plan to have mom come over when wife isn't there and then take what comes with it. This one is worth fighting for.


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## skoloco

my wife claims my mom is a threat to our children, but i dont beleive she beleives this as she makes up one excuse after another, like, they need a nap, or , i am taking away her motherly time from the children, grandmas house smells of smoke, or, its dinner time and they need to eat. She acts like the children are on such a strict regimen when it comes to my mom, but makes acceptions to other people or situations. My mother is no threat to the children, and my wife has admitted that she feels it is her job to punish my mom, or, make her pay consequences for them not getting along and so forth. I have not done a good job managing my my mom and wife in the past when they argue, my wife is a yeller i i dont approve of the way she yells at my mother. Mother has done some things to provoke her, but yelling at her and trying to cut our kids out of her life is not ample consequnces, in my eyes. So not only can i not manage my mother, but also my wife at the same time, atleast when they are in a heated argument. I dont want to be a part of it, but now i know i have to and have stepped in. 
So perhaps I have let her take my balls, but she has had them long enough and i want them back, at any cost.

My wife is most controlling with the children, every aspect of how they are raised, i rarely have a say on what they should eat, when they should go to bed, if they should take naps, or play outside, or what kind of toys they should play with. This is where the control is most noticeable. also, She prefers to do most of the driving (which is ok cuzz i drive for a living) . also when it comes to organizing, putting stuff away, loading the dishwasher, it has to be her way. She is a stay at home mom.


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## skoloco

My mother did call my wife Hitler once, only after being yelled at by my wife because my mother wanted to warm up their desert, and wife felt it did not need to be warmed up, which is how my mother eats, and prepares the dish. My mom has appoligized and knows i will not tollerate this. But what mostly sets off my wife, which causes her to start yelling at my mom, is when my mom expresses her opinion, like "Why cant i heat it up"? or when my mom is trying to helpful and offer advice or knowledge, my wife takes it very offensively. My wife was most offended when my mother suggested an anger management program and or counseling. and she also does not accept appologies, atleast not from my mom....
I know you all only hear one side of the story, but i am trying be as straight forward as possible, and have actually deleted some facts i was going to post, becuzz i dont want to potrtay her as a monster.



Susan2010 said:


> Honestly, skoloco, I don't believe you are being honest with your readers. I think you just want someone to justify your position that your wife is some kind of controlling monster. There has to be more to this story and more to your wife's reason(s) for not wanting the children in your mother's presence when she's not around, and smoking is not it. Now, tell us the truth. Your mother bad mouths your wife, doesn't she. She says awful things about her and/or calls her awful names. No woman would want her children exposed to that. If that isn't the problem, then perhaps your mom curses like a sailor. There is something she does that your wife vehemently objects to your children having to hear. C'mon. Tell us what it is.


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## skoloco

Also my wife feels her character is being attacked when her beleifs and wishes for the children are not the same as others. She takes this very personal and this is part of her fear, maybe that our children will figure out on their own how "black and white" everythig is to her and rebel....??


skoloco said:


> My mother did call my wife Hitler once, only after being yelled at by my wife because my mother wanted to warm up their desert, and wife felt it did not need to be warmed up, which is how my mother eats, and prepares the dish. My mom has appoligized and knows i will not tollerate this. But what mostly sets off my wife, which causes her to start yelling at my mom, is when my mom expresses her opinion, like "Why cant i heat it up"? or when my mom is trying to helpful and offer advice or knowledge, my wife takes it very offensively. My wife was most offended when my mother suggested an anger management program and or counseling. and she also does not accept appologies, atleast not from my mom....
> I know you all only hear one side of the story, but i am trying be as straight forward as possible, and have actually deleted some facts i was going to post, becuzz i dont want to potrtay her as a monster.


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## turnera

Honestly, the THREE of you need to go into couples counseling.


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## skoloco

thank you, i do believe she is being very selfish and her reasons are self mortified. 



scarletblue said:


> If your wife is concerned about second hand smoke, then I can see why she doesn't want the kids to go over there. Even if she doesn't smoke while they're there, I'm sure it's in the air.
> 
> Other than that, your wife is using the kids to lash out at your mother. That is not fair to your children. They deserve a relationship with their grandmother. There are a lot of kids out there who are not fortunate enough to have grandparents in their lives, how cruel for your wife to deprive her children of that relationship. She is not only punishing your mother, she is punishing you and your kids.
> 
> I agree with your plan to have mom come over when wife isn't there and then take what comes with it. This one is worth fighting for.


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## skoloco

we have done about 15 sessions already, but things are not getting any better. We are still attending, once a week. In couseling, no one is right or wrong, its about finding mutual grounds, and compromising, at least thats what they say. I feel the couselors poking around at certain behaviors of my wifes, but they wont come right out and tell her to change. My wife feels she has compramised by allowing us all to get together once a month, in a public place, which went horrible when we tried it because my wife was so controlling and unpleaseant, neither my mom or i care to do it again this way. So now its my fault, according do her, that we cant get together. My wife has been so manipulative, i flat out told her i dont want the two of them with in 100' of one another.


turnera said:


> Honestly, the THREE of you need to go into couples counseling.


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## turnera

NO, I meant ALL THREE of you.

And I have to ask: Was your wife like this before you had kids?


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## skoloco

my mother does attend the sessions as well, and there were no signs of this before the children..


turnera said:


> NO, I meant ALL THREE of you.
> 
> And I have to ask: Was your wife like this before you had kids?


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## Susan2010

Nope. Sorry. You may have everyone else fooled, but I won't be. You admitted your mother provokes your wife. Maybe you let that part slip, I don't know. You began by making your wife out to be a monster and came back to do more of the same. It's your mother, whether you will admit that or not. I wouldn't want my children around her either. She doesn't want that woman saying bad things about her to or in front of her children, and I don't blame her. That is the way it goes. It's the way people are, and I know how women can be. Your wife is being blamed because she's louder, maybe she wins the arguments. It's the way that goes too. The person who is the loudest, more boisterous, more dominant gets blamed as being the culprit. That is the reason you make so much of her being controlling and the reason you originally gave us no clue that your mother does anything to your wife at all. Low and behold, it is all your mother's doing. Also, I don't see anything wrong with that woman taking charge of her home and her children. So many women don't bother.

I don't doubt there are some things you disagree with. In those instances and concerning your marriage, you don't have to allow your wife to emasculate you. But, you also don't have to vilify her. You have problems with your wife that you have transformed into awfully big mountains. Think about marriage counseling so you can deal with them one at a time. And, try to consider more objectively how she feels about her children being around your mother.


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## Susan2010

I began writing my last response after your second post, so I didn't see you are already in counseling.


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## turnera

Are you aware that men marry their mothers, and women marry their fathers?


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## skoloco

there is absolutely nothing wrong with her taking charge, but to rule it with an iron fist is just an fair, especially since i am trying to be a part of it. My mother has learned to control her self and has been willing to change and do what ever it takes to make things work, where as my wife has made it clear that she doesnt ever want herself or her kids to go to grandmas, and wont allow her to come to our house, which is why i am here. I can reason and put up with some of my wifes requests, but when she said my mom isnt allowed in our house at all, this is where i have trouble..


Susan2010 said:


> Nope. Sorry. You may have everyone else fooled, but I won't be. You admitted your mother provokes your wife. Maybe you let that part slip, I don't know. You began by making your wife out to be a monster and came back to do more of the same. It's your mother, whether you will admit that or not. I wouldn't want my children around her either. She doesn't want that woman saying bad things about her to or in front of her children, and I don't blame her. That is the way it goes. It's the way people are, and I know how women can be. Your wife is being blamed because she's louder, maybe she wins the arguments. It's the way that goes too. The person who is the loudest, more boisterous, more dominant gets blamed as being the culprit. That is the reason you make so much of her being controlling and the reason you originally gave us no clue that your mother does anything to your wife at all. Low and behold, it is all your mother's doing. Also, I don't see anything wrong with that woman taking charge of her home and her children. So many women don't bother.
> 
> I don't doubt there are some things you disagree with. In those instances and concerning your marriage, you don't have to allow your wife to emasculate you. But, you also don't have to vilify her. You have problems with your wife that you have transformed into awfully big mountains. Think about marriage counseling so you can deal with them one at a time. And, try to consider more objectively how she feels about her children being around your mother.


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## Crypsys

I agree with Susan2010, something is rotten in Denmark. Skoloco, your padding something, somewhere I think. The only way her reaction would be warranted is in the case in which your mother has caused major issues (or your wife has mental issues). 

My mom may irritate my wife sometimes (my Mom is a tough old bird), but my wife implicitly trusts her and never bars her from our house or our children. My mother smokes and we just do not let her smoke inside. 

My wifes mother IS barred from our family, but that is because there is a major issue with her mom (alcoholic, bi-polar, schizophrenia). 

So, as Paul Harvey says "What IS the rest of the story?"


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## Susan2010

skoloco said:


> but when she said my mom isnt allowed in our house at all, this is where i have trouble.


What you refuse to see is your mother is the problem. Perhaps your wife overreacts, and no doubt she does. The problem is, she shouldn't have anything to react to. No one wants to sit under judgment of others or be under their scrutiny. Absolutely no woman, except a weak and insecure one, will tolerate being judged and criticized in her own home. I have no idea what made your mother think she ever had anything to say, anything to criticize, so much better ideas and ways to do things. She rules/d her own castle, where she is the Queen "B" and such is the same with your wife, with every woman. Okay, so what your mother says she will behave herself. I guarantee you she will not. People like her have to be heard, have to be right all the time, must have something to say, are such smart***es to think they know everything better than everyone else. She has a worthy opponent in your wife, and she will not stop because she knows she gets your wife's goat. And, if she momentarily pretends to behave herself, she will simply do/say things so she isn't so obvious. She will make snide remarks to your children (as I think she has already done) about their mother - "your mother this" and "your mother that" and "your mother is stupid" and so on. She has to get her digs in however she can.....and she will!

Your mother has you fooled, and you are falling for it again. But hey, she's "mama" right? Perhaps you should have married your mother. I'll bet your wife has said those words to you.


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## skoloco

Is this my wife???


Susan2010 said:


> What you refuse to see is your mother is the problem. Perhaps your wife overreacts, and no doubt she does. The problem is, she shouldn't have anything to react to. No one wants to sit under judgment of others or be under their scrutiny. Absolutely no woman, except a weak and insecure one, will tolerate being judged and criticized in her own home. I have no idea what made your mother think she ever had anything to say, anything to criticize, so much better ideas and ways to do things. She rules/d her own castle, where she is the Queen "B" and such is the same with your wife, with every woman. Okay, so what your mother says she will behave herself. I guarantee you she will not. People like her have to be heard, have to be right all the time, must have something to say, are such smart***es to think they know everything better than everyone else. She has a worthy opponent in your wife, and she will not stop because she knows she gets your wife's goat. And, if she momentarily pretends to behave herself, she will simply do/say things so she isn't so obvious. She will make snide remarks to your children (as I think she has already done) about their mother - "your mother this" and "your mother that" and "your mother is stupid" and so on. She has to get her digs in however she can.....and she will!
> 
> Your mother has you fooled, and you are falling for it again. But hey, she's "mama" right? Perhaps you should have married your mother. I'll bet your wife has said those words to you.


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## skoloco

Of courese, there is so much more to the story, I try to give the basics, if it was simple, the counselors woud have it all figured out in the 30 hrs we have spent with them. I dont think its ok for her to decide that my mom cant come over at all, even when she is not home, which doesnt infringe on her, thats why i feel this is all about control...


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## Sixgunner

Sounds like you need to man up and get a set.


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## SimplyAmorous

I am wondering if YOUR WIFE is this way WITH YOU as well - as it seems she is insistant that you follow her every decree. Just from listening, it appears outragous (to me) that she will not allow you to visit your own mother or her come to your house & see her flesh & blood grandchildren under your/her loving husbands "protection" - a few times a month. Does she allow you to call , send a card , or would this spawn a fight as well ? 

I am sure there is MUCH to the story but it would seriously have to be Her physically, emotionally, or Financially HURTING to your family for her to be THIS deserving of being banished, ignored and acted as if she never bore you & needs to relinquish any concern or part in her own family. 

If you have sons, Your wife may NEVER truly understand what she is doing to your mother until she herself becomes the dreaded Mother In Law & simply acts "herself" (with all of her flaws) in front of her daughter in law - and to FEEL/be on the receiving end of what may come from that. 

I do agree, as the MOTHER of sons, she should be extra cautious to walk on Egg shells with your family - watch every word she says, NEVER offend, & do nothing to stir the pot, it simply is NOT the same role as being the MOTHER to a daughter & her family -generally. But on the other hand, it sounds like your wife refuses to forgive even if apologies are made, this is equally as BAD. 

If both would just do these things out of LOVE FOR YOU, then you might have something to work with. 

You are the man of the house, what will she DO TO YOU if you "take your balls back" and tell her the way it will be ??

And HOW does your chidlren feel about this - Do they enjoy their grandmother ? Do they ever miss her? Or do they dislike her as well & if so, would it have anything to do with your wife souring their perception of her?


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## turnera

skoloco said:


> Mother has done some things to provoke her


Like what?


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## citizen56

I have one word for you: Divorce.


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## skoloco

I do to talk to my mother on the phone, and if my wife is around, she will scour me for talking to her about certain things, that do not even pertain to her. My wife also prefers me to only talk to my mom on the phone in her presence, as she feels something may be said that she does not agree with, again, control, and a great fear of something ,perhaps. 
the children do adore their grandmother, and would like to spend sometime with her. my mom stopped by the house a few weeks ago to drop something off for my brother who lives with us and 1 of my 5 year olds told grandma " your not allowed in our house, and , your not our friend", however, they do want to see her. and they are affectionate with her when given the chance.

W H A T W I L L S H E D O W H E N I S T A N D M Y G R O U N D? ? ? 

She will most likely try to punish me. probably lock me out of the house when given the opportunity, as she has done in the past, lock me out of our bedroom, which i dont have a key for, as done quite a few times in past. Take our kids somewhere so i cant spend time with them in the very little time i have off from work. She will probably do her best to make life miserable for me for who knows how long.. I will certainly be ignored and get the silent treatment which last a minimum of 2 days, depending on situation. I will hear about it till the day i day, as she is not forgiving, and rarely admits any fault, if ever, and she does not make any apologies, even if she realizes she was in the wrong.

I agree, "protection" of my children by me is never an issue, unless, my mother is in the picture, then the rules change, in her eyes. I even agreed not to leave them alone with her for 1 second, but this still isnt good enough...




SimplyAmorous said:


> I am wondering if YOUR WIFE is this way WITH YOU as well - as it seems she is insistant that you follow her every decree. Just from listening, it appears outragous (to me) that she will not allow you to visit your own mother or her come to your house & see her flesh & blood grandchildren under your/her loving husbands "protection" - a few times a month. Does she allow you to call , send a card , or would this spawn a fight as well ?
> 
> I am sure there is MUCH to the story but it would seriously have to be Her physically, emotionally, or Financially HURTING to your family for her to be THIS deserving of being banished, ignored and acted as if she never bore you & needs to relinquish any concern or part in her own family.
> 
> If you have sons, Your wife may NEVER truly understand what she is doing to your mother until she herself becomes the dreaded Mother In Law & simply acts "herself" (with all of her flaws) in front of her daughter in law - and to FEEL/be on the receiving end of what may come from that.
> 
> I do agree, as the MOTHER of sons, she should be extra cautious to walk on Egg shells with your family - watch every word she says, NEVER offend, & do nothing to stir the pot, it simply is NOT the same role as being the MOTHER to a daughter & her family -generally. But on the other hand, it sounds like your wife refuses to forgive even if apologies are made, this is equally as BAD.
> 
> If both would just do these things out of LOVE FOR YOU, then you might have something to work with.
> 
> You are the man of the house, what will she DO TO YOU if you "take your balls back" and tell her the way it will be ??
> 
> And HOW does your chidlren feel about this - Do they enjoy their grandmother ? Do they ever miss her? Or do they dislike her as well & if so, would it have anything to do with your wife souring their perception of her?


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## skoloco

thank you, thats what i need to hear, the damn counselors wont say something that potentially "offensive"



Sixgunner said:


> Sounds like you need to man up and get a set.


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## turnera

Honestly, if your wife is as big a nutjob as you say, why don't you just gather evidence of her nuttiness, file for divorce, and keep the kids?

What has your mother done to provoke her?

What did YOU do, when your mother did these things?


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## skoloco

i cant explain, my mom does not do it intentionally, she just says what she is thinking, sometimes without thinking. Like telling my wife that it is "ridiculous" and "unfair" for my wife not to allow the piece of pie my kids are eating to be heated up. This statement led to a huge argument between the two. There was good reason for the pie not to be warmed up, and so my mother wanted to know why, which i think is reasonable, but my wife does not like being questioned, which i can also understand, but she is so rude about it...


turnera said:


> Like what?


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## turnera

You're kidding, right? You expect us to believe that your wife has declared war on your mom just because she used two words and an argument?


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## skoloco

no silly, but i beleive u or somebody asked for an example. That is just 1 of the many situations that have occurred, but pretty typical.......


turnera said:


> You're kidding, right? You expect us to believe that your wife has declared war on your mom just because she used two words and an argument?


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## turnera

No, I didn't want one example.

I want to understand what could be so outrageous that it would cause your wife to turn into such a monster. 

Because if your mother really is such a saint that all she did was complain about food, then your wife is sick and probably needs to be hospitalized.

Which is it?


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## skoloco

my mother is no saint, but they equally have there issues. My wife worries about the little things in life way to much and her anger explodes over the smallest of things, which are so important to her.... They probably both need hospitilazation. .... 


turnera said:


> No, I didn't want one example.
> 
> I want to understand what could be so outrageous that it would cause your wife to turn into such a monster.
> 
> Because if your mother really is such a saint that all she did was complain about food, then your wife is sick and probably needs to be hospitalized.
> 
> Which is it?


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## Susan2010

turnera said:


> You're kidding, right? You expect us to believe that your wife has declared war on your mom just because she used two words and an argument?


LOL I keep trying to tell you guys and him that his mother is the problem. To get any real information out of him about his mother's habits and disrespect is like pulling teeth. He just wants to vilify his wife. He refuses to understand his mother is not to challenge his wife in her own home, question her, call her names, express her superior opinion, or anything, but she keeps doing these things. So far his molars have cost him confessing his mother called his wife Hitler, told her her reasons are ridiculous concerning something that only involved her own children, and told her she was being unfair. Wonder what his canine teeth will cost him. We'll be lucky to find out. I don't believe he really knows much more than his wife's doing and comes in on things at the aftermath. His mother will never really let him see how awful and sneaky she is. She'll just keep making sure he thinks his wife is the monster. It's possible his wife is overbearing, overly sensitive, and probably overreacts, but there shouldn't be a woman in her home to have to react to. His mother is incredibly disrespectful and holier than thou. She thinks she has to protect her son from the big bad wifey. She thinks she has to come between them. He has to get it through his thick head his mother is his mother, and he was supposed to cut those apron strings a long time ago. He has to understand his mother is hardly the first monster-in-law that ever existed, so it certainly is not unfathomable. 

skoloco, you are never supposed to side with your mother against your wife. Even if everything I say is inaccurate, you are not supposed to do that. Take a stand against your wife for your mother and you will be living with your mother. I hope she has room for you because the next wife will send her mama's boy back to her, too. Problems in your marriage are between you and your wife. How is it? How could it be? How did it happen that you endured your terrible wife all these years? And now, ALL OF SUDDEN, you are ready and fully armored to take her on??? Please tell us why this is happening. Because your wife finally got sick of your mother. This is all about your mother - you protecting her, you taking a stand against your wife for your mother's sake, your mother causing the rifts with your wife . . . Where does it end? And when will you get the clue?


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## sisters359

I'm not so sure, S2010. The stuff about the silent treatment for 2 days, locking him out of the house, being controlling--it seems to go well beyond the issue with his mother, although that is the one that has pushed things beyond his tolerance.

If your wife is truly contolling and immature in handling conflict--exploding over little things that are only important to her, unable to trust you with the kids (you said she has almost complete control over them to the point you are edged out a lot), etc., you have a very different problem and you have created it, in part, by not taking a stand long before. This should be about your relationship with your wife and with your kids. She absolutely has no right to constantly mediate your relationship with them. You are doing your kids a disservice by letting her do that. Stand up for THEM if you can't stand up for yourself. And do not lie to your wife or accept any excuses about why your mom cannot visit. Tell your wife the visit will happen, that it will happen at such and such a time, that she will behave appropriately (or she can leave), and you will hence forth be making as many decisions for them as she is b/c you will make them together. If you think she is rigid and controlling with them, then you need to insist she back off. If she won't--you need to be ready to take a stand. I suspect that you have let her have her way frankly b/c it is easier for you--easier not to have that much responsibility for the kids (meals, etc.) and easier not to have to live with a potentially exploding wife who might then turn around and pull the silent treatment--which is always wrong and is very passive-aggressive behavior. Growing a pair now will be much more painful but you need to do it for yourself and your kids. Do not tolerate passive aggressive behavior, either. Insist she talk with you--respectfully--and that you work out conflict like adults. 

I can't help but suspect you are living with someone with some type of mental health issue and you've been ignoring it b/c that's the path of least resistance, until now. A lot of the stuff you say about your wife is NOT normal adult behavior. Your mom may be the spark, but the root causes of the problem were there before, long before, and if you want to salvage your kids' happiness (they can't be that well off living with a controlling mom, frankly), and perhaps your own, you will have to take her very abnormal behavior seriously. Good luck. I suspect this won't be easy.


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## turnera

The bottom line is, he -like most of us - has married a mirror image of his parent.

And no matter what his wife's issue, short of mental illness, he IS supposed to support his wife over his mother. And he's not doing that.

None of this is going to improve until somebody changes something.

And he says they - all 3 - go to counseling together? Seriously?


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## MEM2020

Sisters,
I think you are absolutely right on the money. This actually isn't complicated. Wife and husband agree to simple ground rules:
- Grandma only comes over when Mommy is not home
- Grandma does not discuss mommy with kids
- Grandma does not smoke in front of kids - not in the house and not where they can see her - this is a role model issue
- Grandma does not - add any other reasonable rule

It really is ok if the two of them cannot get along. It really is NOT ok for wife to try to freeze grandma out of their life. NOT ok. NOT ok. 

By the way - even if S2010 is partly right and grandma is a difficult person - being difficult is not a valid basis for being denied interaction with your grandkids. 

EVERYONE who has a spine is by definition "difficult" at times. 

I love my wife. And I am not ashamed to say I fear my wife's wrath. With that said - if she ever "locked me out of the house" because she was annoyed I wasn't doing what she wanted, that would be a giant step towards separation/divorce. Same thing with the bedroom. 

Frankly the wife sounds like a total nightmare but I don't blame her. The Man of the house is not being assertive and demanding that she behave. I put this at his door - not hers. He needs to stand up to her. I wonder if she can pay all the bills if she locks him out and he takes himself and his paycheck elsewhere.....




sisters359 said:


> I'm not so sure, S2010. The stuff about the silent treatment for 2 days, locking him out of the house, being controlling--it seems to go well beyond the issue with his mother, although that is the one that has pushed things beyond his tolerance.
> 
> If your wife is truly contolling and immature in handling conflict--exploding over little things that are only important to her, unable to trust you with the kids (you said she has almost complete control over them to the point you are edged out a lot), etc., you have a very different problem and you have created it, in part, by not taking a stand long before. This should be about your relationship with your wife and with your kids. She absolutely has no right to constantly mediate your relationship with them. You are doing your kids a disservice by letting her do that. Stand up for THEM if you can't stand up for yourself. And do not lie to your wife or accept any excuses about why your mom cannot visit. Tell your wife the visit will happen, that it will happen at such and such a time, that she will behave appropriately (or she can leave), and you will hence forth be making as many decisions for them as she is b/c you will make them together. If you think she is rigid and controlling with them, then you need to insist she back off. If she won't--you need to be ready to take a stand. I suspect that you have let her have her way frankly b/c it is easier for you--easier not to have that much responsibility for the kids (meals, etc.) and easier not to have to live with a potentially exploding wife who might then turn around and pull the silent treatment--which is always wrong and is very passive-aggressive behavior. Growing a pair now will be much more painful but you need to do it for yourself and your kids. Do not tolerate passive aggressive behavior, either. Insist she talk with you--respectfully--and that you work out conflict like adults.
> 
> I can't help but suspect you are living with someone with some type of mental health issue and you've been ignoring it b/c that's the path of least resistance, until now. A lot of the stuff you say about your wife is NOT normal adult behavior. Your mom may be the spark, but the root causes of the problem were there before, long before, and if you want to salvage your kids' happiness (they can't be that well off living with a controlling mom, frankly), and perhaps your own, you will have to take her very abnormal behavior seriously. Good luck. I suspect this won't be easy.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

I am in TOTAL agreement with Sisters & Mem on this :iagree::iagree::iagree:

I have to wonder what kind of relationship Susan has with her own Mother In Law to feel THIS strongly, I suspect it can't be good, maybe some deep identifying is going on here.  

Sure makes this old saying so true >> "If you have a daughter, you have her for life, if you have a son, you only have him 'till he takes a wife. How true this is for some. 

Years ago I stumpled upon a Forum specifically dedicated to bashing Mother in Laws. I thought I would do a search for this & found a couple more. 

If you ever wanted to read some pure Hate, you'll find it here. 

Mother-In-Law Stories Message Board Posting Rules

Mother-in-Law HELL » Mother-in-Law Advice and Mother-in-Law Stories

I HATE MY INLAWS!!! • View forum - In-Laws Talk


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## skoloco

In the past 3 years, my wife has shut her own mother and brother out of her life, and does not speak with them. I see a pattern here, and it is frightening. If we dont work things out, i KNOW she will make sure my time with my kids will be limited...


Susan2010 said:


> LOL I keep trying to tell you guys and him that his mother is the problem. To get any real information out of him about his mother's habits and disrespect is like pulling teeth. He just wants to vilify his wife. He refuses to understand his mother is not to challenge his wife in her own home, question her, call her names, express her superior opinion, or anything, but she keeps doing these things. So far his molars have cost him confessing his mother called his wife Hitler, told her her reasons are ridiculous concerning something that only involved her own children, and told her she was being unfair. Wonder what his canine teeth will cost him. We'll be lucky to find out. I don't believe he really knows much more than his wife's doing and comes in on things at the aftermath. His mother will never really let him see how awful and sneaky she is. She'll just keep making sure he thinks his wife is the monster. It's possible his wife is overbearing, overly sensitive, and probably overreacts, but there shouldn't be a woman in her home to have to react to. His mother is incredibly disrespectful and holier than thou. She thinks she has to protect her son from the big bad wifey. She thinks she has to come between them. He has to get it through his thick head his mother is his mother, and he was supposed to cut those apron strings a long time ago. He has to understand his mother is hardly the first monster-in-law that ever existed, so it certainly is not unfathomable.
> 
> skoloco, you are never supposed to side with your mother against your wife. Even if everything I say is inaccurate, you are not supposed to do that. Take a stand against your wife for your mother and you will be living with your mother. I hope she has room for you because the next wife will send her mama's boy back to her, too. Problems in your marriage are between you and your wife. How is it? How could it be? How did it happen that you endured your terrible wife all these years? And now, ALL OF SUDDEN, you are ready and fully armored to take her on??? Please tell us why this is happening. Because your wife finally got sick of your mother. This is all about your mother - you protecting her, you taking a stand against your wife for your mother's sake, your mother causing the rifts with your wife . . . Where does it end? And when will you get the clue?


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## skoloco

yes,it is my duty stand behind my wife, but she has to give in and compramise somewhere. Dont I also have the right to be happy?


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## skoloco

So i i should just let her take away everything that is important to me??? Maybe you should sign up for psychiatric services along with my wife....


Susan2010 said:


> LOL I keep trying to tell you guys and him that his mother is the problem. To get any real information out of him about his mother's habits and disrespect is like pulling teeth. He just wants to vilify his wife. He refuses to understand his mother is not to challenge his wife in her own home, question her, call her names, express her superior opinion, or anything, but she keeps doing these things. So far his molars have cost him confessing his mother called his wife Hitler, told her her reasons are ridiculous concerning something that only involved her own children, and told her she was being unfair. Wonder what his canine teeth will cost him. We'll be lucky to find out. I don't believe he really knows much more than his wife's doing and comes in on things at the aftermath. His mother will never really let him see how awful and sneaky she is. She'll just keep making sure he thinks his wife is the monster. It's possible his wife is overbearing, overly sensitive, and probably overreacts, but there shouldn't be a woman in her home to have to react to. His mother is incredibly disrespectful and holier than thou. She thinks she has to protect her son from the big bad wifey. She thinks she has to come between them. He has to get it through his thick head his mother is his mother, and he was supposed to cut those apron strings a long time ago. He has to understand his mother is hardly the first monster-in-law that ever existed, so it certainly is not unfathomable.
> 
> skoloco, you are never supposed to side with your mother against your wife. Even if everything I say is inaccurate, you are not supposed to do that. Take a stand against your wife for your mother and you will be living with your mother. I hope she has room for you because the next wife will send her mama's boy back to her, too. Problems in your marriage are between you and your wife. How is it? How could it be? How did it happen that you endured your terrible wife all these years? And now, ALL OF SUDDEN, you are ready and fully armored to take her on??? Please tell us why this is happening. Because your wife finally got sick of your mother. This is all about your mother - you protecting her, you taking a stand against your wife for your mother's sake, your mother causing the rifts with your wife . . . Where does it end? And when will you get the clue?


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## MEM2020

YES - SA - Totally agree. 

Funny s2010 has gone on a tear about how skoloco is so reluctant to bash his mother - but he is quick to bash is wife. And she - 2010 - seems pretty angry about that. 

It turns out he has been even MORE reluctant to bash his wife than his mother. After his last post we have a clear picture. His wife has conflict with someone/anyone and instead of resolving it like a grownup she tries to eliminate them from her life. 
- MIL
- Her own mother
- Her brother
- Her husband - with the lockouts 

This is a total my way or the highway style. 

Skoloco - who is the primary breadwinner in your house? Can your wife pay all the bills without your paycheck? Because she cannot get full custody unless she shows you are a danger to the kids. And frankly you don't come across like a bad guy. More like a nice guy - with a not nice wife. 



SimplyAmorous said:


> I am in TOTAL agreement with Sisters & Mem on this :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I have to wonder what kind of relationship Susan has with her own Mother In Law to feel THIS strongly, I suspect it can't be good, maybe some deep identifying is going on here.
> 
> Sure makes this old saying so true >> "If you have a daughter, you have her for life, if you have a son, you only have him 'till he takes a wife. How true this is for some.
> 
> Years ago I stumpled upon a Forum specifically dedicated to bashing Mother in Laws. I thought I would do a search for this & found a couple more.
> 
> If you ever wanted to read some pure Hate, you'll find it here.
> 
> Mother-In-Law Stories Message Board Posting Rules
> 
> Mother-in-Law HELL » Mother-in-Law Advice and Mother-in-Law Stories
> 
> I HATE MY INLAWS!!! • View forum - In-Laws Talk


----------



## sisters359

You don't KNOW that. From what you have said, I think she has so much control b/c you LET her. Don't take her word as law. Insist on time alone with the kids so she cannot constantly intervene. If you don't insist and hold your ground, she'll "win." But do not argue or make your kids feel caught in the middle--just state and do. Good luck.


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## skoloco

THANK YOU...I agreee and have agreed to put down as many ground rules as needed for the visits, she just wont budge. 
She has come up with a solution....Supervised visits once a month for 6 months in a neutral territory, and then, if after that my wife feels "comfortable" she will allow me to take the kids to see grams, but still only in neutral territory, not grams house, nor ours, she does not ever intend to let her in our house. This is what she said in our counseling session yesterday... I think this is obsurd and she calls this a "compromise"?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


MEM11363 said:


> Sisters,
> I think you are absolutely right on the money. This actually isn't complicated. Wife and husband agree to simple ground rules:
> - Grandma only comes over when Mommy is not home
> - Grandma does not discuss mommy with kids
> - Grandma does not smoke in front of kids - not in the house and not where they can see her - this is a role model issue
> - Grandma does not - add any other reasonable rule
> 
> It really is ok if the two of them cannot get along. It really is NOT ok for wife to try to freeze grandma out of their life. NOT ok. NOT ok.
> 
> By the way - even if S2010 is partly right and grandma is a difficult person - being difficult is not a valid basis for being denied interaction with your grandkids.
> 
> EVERYONE who has a spine is by definition "difficult" at times.
> 
> I love my wife. And I am not ashamed to say I fear my wife's wrath. With that said - if she ever "locked me out of the house" because she was annoyed I wasn't doing what she wanted, that would be a giant step towards separation/divorce. Same thing with the bedroom.
> 
> Frankly the wife sounds like a total nightmare but I don't blame her. The Man of the house is not being assertive and demanding that she behave. I put this at his door - not hers. He needs to stand up to her. I wonder if she can pay all the bills if she locks him out and he takes himself and his paycheck elsewhere.....


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## turnera

Why the he!! do you even allow her to decide what YOU can do with YOUR kids?

Does she beat you or something?

Honestly, I can't fathom a single other reason why you would allow her to make - and why you would FOLLOW - such rules.

Are you her husband or her child?


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## MEM2020

Skoloco,

Your wife has serious behavioral issues and clearly you understand that. 

Who is the primary breadwinner in your house? Can she pay the bills without your full contribution? 

Are you willing to let your wife treat you like a child - which is basically what she is trying to do? 

The way a fully assertive man would handle this is simple. He would say - my mother will be visiting as often as I like - when you are not here. I will enforce any reasonable ground rules you have during her visits. For instance I promise she will not speak about you to the kids. 

And then let her throw her tantrum and yell and scream all she wants. Proceed with your plan. Have your mother over when your wife is out and if your wife tries to throw you off track by suddenly coming home when she is scheduled to be out, ask your mom to leave and next time have the 3 of you meet in a local park. 

If your wife locks you out of your house/bedroom at that point you have to decide what you want to do. I will say that "most" crazy people are FULLY AWARE they are being bullies and if you were to move out for a month without comment. Just move out - and take your paycheck with you - come by to visit the kids when you can and just ignore her - she will likely come crawling for forgiveness. Most bullies fold very fast when handled this way. I doubt it would take a full month - but if you call her bluff this way and she folds you can demand a whole new level of equality in your marriage. Nicely of course. The goal is not to switch roles with YOU being the bully. 







skoloco said:


> THANK YOU...I agreee and have agreed to put down as many ground rules as needed for the visits, she just wont budge.
> She has come up with a solution....Supervised visits once a month for 6 months in a neutral territory, and then, if after that my wife feels "comfortable" she will allow me to take the kids to see grams, but still only in neutral territory, not grams house, nor ours, she does not ever intend to let her in our house. This is what she said in our counseling session yesterday... I think this is obsurd and she calls this a "compromise"?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????


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## skoloco

I like it, just state and do!!! i like the simplicity of it and have decided to make arrangements very soon. NO more discussing it with her.....it goes no where, and if this only makes things worse, then so be it, but hopefully this will wake her up.......


sisters359 said:


> You don't KNOW that. From what you have said, I think she has so much control b/c you LET her. Don't take her word as law. Insist on time alone with the kids so she cannot constantly intervene. If you don't insist and hold your ground, she'll "win." But do not argue or make your kids feel caught in the middle--just state and do. Good luck.


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## skoloco

I bring home the money, 95% of it anyways, so she could not financially make it.


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## MEM2020

I would not directly bring up the money - but I would let her know what you are going to do regarding your mother - and then if she locks you out/ups the ante - you move out and take your paycheck with you until she comes to her senses. I mean pay your basic bills but that is it. 

But since she is such a difficult person - I would ALSO send her a short email explaining how you plan to handle the situation regarding your mother. That way she can't easily lie about it later. 




skoloco said:


> I bring home the money, 95% of it anyways, so she could not financially make it.


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## Susan2010

Aw, SimplyAmorous, c'mon with the dime store psychology. My mother-in-law was a jewel. We remained close after I divorced her son, but I backed off after he remarried. I thought that is what I was supposed to do. I didn't know she missed me until my daughter told me after MIL's funeral 3 years ago. I also didn't know she had told her son his new wife was nothing compared to me and would never have anything to do with her. Sorry to disappoint you, but a person doesn't have to "identify" with every situation they express strong opinions about. I know I am right about this guy's mother. I will say once again, as I agreed before, maybe his wife does have some kind of problem, but that doesn't make it okay for his mother to be disrespectful and know-it-all to his wife.



SimplyAmorous said:


> I am in TOTAL agreement with Sisters & Mem on this :iagree::iagree::iagree:
> 
> I have to wonder what kind of relationship Susan has with her own Mother In Law to feel THIS strongly, I suspect it can't be good, maybe some deep identifying is going on here.
> 
> Sure makes this old saying so true >> "If you have a daughter, you have her for life, if you have a son, you only have him 'till he takes a wife. How true this is for some.
> 
> Years ago I stumpled upon a Forum specifically dedicated to bashing Mother in Laws. I thought I would do a search for this & found a couple more.
> 
> If you ever wanted to read some pure Hate, you'll find it here.
> 
> Mother-In-Law Stories Message Board Posting Rules
> 
> Mother-in-Law HELL » Mother-in-Law Advice and Mother-in-Law Stories
> 
> I HATE MY INLAWS!!! • View forum - In-Laws Talk


----------



## skoloco

Susan2010 said:


> Aw, SimplyAmorous, c'mon with the dime store psychology. My mother-in-law was a jewel. We remained close after I divorced her son, but I backed off after he remarried. I thought that is what I was supposed to do. I didn't know she missed me until my daughter told me after MIL's funeral 3 years ago. I also didn't know she had told her son his new wife was nothing compared to me and would never have anything to do with her. Sorry to disappoint you, but a person doesn't have to "identify" with every situation they express strong opinions about. I know I am right about this guy's mother. I will say once again, as I agreed before, maybe his wife does have some kind of problem, but that doesn't make it okay for his mother to be disrespectful and know-it-all to his wife.


Sure, we may not all agree, and i thank you dearly for your time and thoughts


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## MEM2020

Susan,
I don't understand your point. He is proposing an approach that does not require his wife to interact with his mother at all. Whatever happened in the past between them does not matter since wife does not need to see her MIL at all at this point. The only issue at hand is that his wife is trying to do everything she can to limit/prevent the MIL from seeing the grandchildren. This is petty/spiteful and also puts the husband in a terrible spot. 

Given how awful his wife is to him - locking him out of the house/bedroom - you seem to be overlooking her issues to an extraordinary degree. Thing is - as long as the MIL is willing to follow some simple ground rules - she is a non-factor in their life. The wife however sounds like a nutcase and a bully. She IS a problem since she is a behavioral role model for the kids. 

What exactly makes you so inclined to hate on his MIL and give the wife an almost free pass? 

In terms of this guys life on a scale of 1 to 10 his Mother is a 2 or 3 in terms of being a problem and his wife is an 8 or a 9.








Susan2010 said:


> Aw, SimplyAmorous, c'mon with the dime store psychology. My mother-in-law was a jewel. We remained close after I divorced her son, but I backed off after he remarried. I thought that is what I was supposed to do. I didn't know she missed me until my daughter told me after MIL's funeral 3 years ago. I also didn't know she had told her son his new wife was nothing compared to me and would never have anything to do with her. Sorry to disappoint you, but a person doesn't have to "identify" with every situation they express strong opinions about. I know I am right about this guy's mother. I will say once again, as I agreed before, maybe his wife does have some kind of problem, but that doesn't make it okay for his mother to be disrespectful and know-it-all to his wife.


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## Affaircare

I know you folks don't understand this, but what skoloco is talking about does happen and it's not something his mom is doing necessarily. This is what it looks like when a husband is emotionally, mentally, and verbally abused by his wife. Unfortunately here in the USA we have TONS of resources for the abused woman and everyone would pretty much immediately recognize that situation, but when it is the other way around, there are almost virtually NO resources and men can spend years being blamed. Just think of this situation and reverse the genders--a husband who controls who his wife does or does not see, cuts her off from family and relatives who don't support his absolute authority, punishing her for not doing what he wants-the way he wants-when he wants, scolding her as if he knows better, not allowing her to do something if he doesn't "agree with it", locking her out of the house or rooms, withholding sex to "teach her a lesson", withholding the children to punish, the silent treatment for days, doing his best to make her life miserable, never EVER letting her hear the end of it if she makes a mistake, and never EVER apologizing even if he was wrong. Sound familiar? Yeah--it is an ABUSIVE SPOUSE!! The only difference is that we have been so brainwashed that the man is the "abuser" and the wife is "victim" that we don't even recognize it when the genders are reversed! 

(Sorry this is absolutely a pet peeve of mine...can you tell?)

skoloco, I'm sorry this is happening to you, and I will do for you what I do for ANY abused spouse I meet--male or female. I'm going to refer you to Welcome to Dr Irene's Verbal Abuse (Site)!. On this page, if you put your mouse over the words, it's a link and you can click and read about what abuse is. Now, this particular site focuses on verbal abuse, but it can teach you a lot about "abuse" in general and it applies to emotional and mental abuse as well. Furthermore, there are pages for guys who were abused, like Tex's List for Abusive Gals . Here's another page called The Victim Pages that is all about people who are abused, why we put up with it, steps to recovering, etc. Finally, there is a page for abused guys: The Abused Guys Page. 

My own Dear Hubby also found this book helpful in understanding how to deal with a controlling person in his life: Amazon.com: Controlling People: How to Recognize, Understand, and Deal with People Who Try to Control You (0045079205697): Patricia Evans: Books. The author has a theory about what makes people become controlling. She suggest that all people have four internal functions available to them to use as internal guidance: their ability to think, their emotions, their physical sensations and their intuition. Controlling people (CPs) have suffered some kind of emotional or physical trauma as children or adults that has caused them, as a defense, to shut down one or more of the first three functions. Oftentimes, the only function they use is their thinking function. This leaves them feeling empty inside. And it's a tough way to live. 

So take some time and read over the site and if you can, order the book or see if your local bookstore has it. Learn all you can about abusive spouses, and we can help you just the same way we would help any abused wife. #1 would be to put yourself into a place of safety as quickly as you can. Safety means physical safety but also emotional/mental safety. You can click here for a Sample Safety Plan (it's a *.pdf file so you'll need Adobe or Foxit) and this will get you started thinking about it, okay? #2 would be to start learning what you can about abuse and learn some techniques to deal with it.


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## skoloco

thank you so much for your time, and adressing "susan". I just dont have the time for that sort of crazinesss, got enough of that to deal with at home. I never thought of it that way, i will look into the info you provided. again thank you for taking the time to read and post links........


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## LaStrada

Having been a moderator in several forums in the past, I don't know who's doing the job around here, but Susan2010 is a little out-of-line.

People come here to ask questions and receive support/help/input. Not derogatory put-downs.

Best of luck to you skoloco - I think you want to try avoid keeping secrets from your wife, but it's impossible to please them both. Put your wife first and the rest will follow. Your children will benefit more from a healthy and stable relationship between you and your wife, more than between you and your mother.


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## MEM2020

Lastrada,
How does "put your wife first" translate into specific actions regarding their current deadlock?



LaStrada said:


> Having been a moderator in several forums in the past, I don't know who's doing the job around here, but Susan2010 is a little out-of-line.
> 
> People come here to ask questions and receive support/help/input. Not derogatory put-downs.
> 
> Best of luck to you skoloco - I think you want to try avoid keeping secrets from your wife, but it's impossible to please them both. Put your wife first and the rest will follow. Your children will benefit more from a healthy and stable relationship between you and your wife, more than between you and your mother.


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## LaStrada

MEM11363 said:


> Lastrada,
> How does "put your wife first" translate into specific actions regarding their current deadlock?


I understand there's tension, history, debatable items that may not be easily resolved. And clearly there's also some red flags on the wife's end and the mother's end that need to be resolved.

But if marriage is still sacred, then some compromises need to be made on both parts.

My translation would be: Do what's necessary. That may mean a variety of things based on the evolution of this whole debacle...

Primarily, agree to disagree. Set up some kind of schedule for in the future that all parties can agree to. If an agreement cannot be reached, seek 3rd party involvement in drafting a schedule. Somewhere between steps A-Z, a logical person will come along and point out some of the flaws going on here in this relationship.


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## turnera

If he's telling the truth about his wife, and not coloring it - and I'm not that sure - then his wife is looney tunes, and nothing will work with her. My Evil Stepmother was a lot like what he describes. She was on the verge of running away with my child, just to spite me. That crazy.

If he's being abused, and that's certainly possible, then there IS no negotiating with her - only setting his own boundaries and refusing to let her trample them. 

If he indeed married a carbon copy of his mother - and that's VERY likely - there's even less chance for a decent resolution.

Lots of angles in this one.


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## Uptown

Skoloco, please reread what AffairCare says -- and what Turnera is now suspecting -- that your W is verbally abusive and controlling. If your description is accurate, it sounds like your W may exhibit a strong pattern of personality disorder traits. 

I am sensitive to this problem because my exW suffers from BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That disorder makes her very controlling and, because she is fearful of abandonment, it also makes her jealous even of my family members. BPDers therefore typically try to isolate their spouses from friends and family members. 

Moreover, because BPDers are impulsive and do black-white thinking, it is common for BPDers to love someone for months or years and then, in an instant, switch to hating them -- as your W has done with several members of her own family.

Significantly, I am not suggesting that your W's behavior would warrant a diagnosis of BPD. Only a professional can determine that. Instead, I am suggesting that she may have a strong pattern of BPD traits (or traits of another PD), which you are capable of recognizing if you take the time to read about them. You are capable of recognizing strong selfishness, for example, without being able to determine whether it is sufficiently severe to warrant a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

I therefore suggest that, in addition to reading the articles listed by Affaircare, you also read a short article describing what it is like to live with a person having strong BPD traits. It is at How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves - Roger Melton, M.A. . Best of luck to you.


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## scarletblue

HELLO!!!!! Are we forgetting the most important part here? THE KIDS!!! What is best for the kids? What exactly are they learning here? Unless they accidentally learn it elsewhere, like a friend's house, or tv, they think the situation they are in is normal. They are learning that this is what married/family life is like. Is this what you want for them? Might as well sign them up for counseling now.

You and your wife are supposed to be a team raising your children. Your kids need to see strength and guidance from both parents. Right now, your wife is teaching the children not to respect you. Is that what you want?

Whatever the underlying issues are, this is about what is best for your kids. Please put that first, and think about what needs to be done for them.


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## Bluemoon7

skoloco said:


> So i i should just let her take away everything that is important to me??? Maybe you should sign up for psychiatric services along with my wife....


Are you referring to your mother here? If so, it's no wonder you have marriage problems. It's good to have a close relationship with your mother, but maybe you are too attached?

Baring that either of them has mental issues, it seems to me that the real problem here is you. Your mother and wife have had issues for years and rather than step up and deal with it as you should have, you let it grow until your wife felt like she had to control the situation since you won't. You probably brushed it off when your wife was upset over things your mother said, over and over. Probably made excuses for your mother rather than validate your wifes feelings. From the beginning of your posts you depicted your wife as the problem and your mother, you and the children as innocent victims in all this. I doubt that is true, but that you have made your wife feel like the crazy villain because of it. Maybe that's why she is behaving this way. 

Everyone in this equation needs to make some changes. Your wife needs to work on anger and not be so controlling that she argues with someone over microwaving pie, even if it will ruin it. Your mother needs to watch what she says, especially about your wife in the presence of her grandchildren. It is UNACCEPTABLE if she talks bad about their mother to them, and IMO grounds for no visitation. However, grandparents are important and if your mother can respect the necessary rules then she should have a relationship with her grandchildren. You need to man up. If your wife is being unreasonable, you need to tell her so, and what you think is reasonable. Individual counseling for all of you might be helpful. 

Also, is your wife the "my way or the highway" type, or is she good at detecting toxic relationships and eliminating them from her life? That might be something for you to discuss with her. 

Just my two cents.


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## SimplyAmorous

Bluemoon7 said:


> Are you referring to your mother here? If so, it's no wonder you have marriage problems. It's good to have a close relationship with your mother, but maybe you are too attached?


No , Bluemoon, in that comment , he was referring to his wife. Not his mother. 

Susan: I agree with you in the fact that we should not have to be in a particular situation to "identify" with another. I try to always walk in another shoes. Most of the stories on here I have never experienced ,even in a small degree. BUt I still have strong opionions - as you do also. Nothing wrong with that. 

I can say that at one time, I was a little of what this man's wife is like. My husband's family were in fact GOOD to me, no meddling but I was a very "jealous" little witch and I pushed them away -just wanted him all to myself, I had alot of issues back when I was young & still learning about love & life. I was indeed very selfish. But I would never say what this wife is doing is OK, Maybe I would have then, I don't know! But certainly not after growing up some & realizing how important family ties are. None of us are perfect, his wife needs some grace, but so does his mom- and really, what about the children?? 

I really fail to see how you can totally take the wifes perspective here >>> Please explain yourself. 

So you agree, that just cause she IS the wife, she deserves to be bowed down too, that IF she hates/dislikes/disaproves of his mother (even though she is no threat emotionally to the children, physically or financially) that she has the full right to DEMAND that her husband & this woman's own flesh & blood grandchildren can NEVER get together at her home or the children's home, share their territory with each other like family members enjoy everywhere all over the world but have to meet at neutral places X amount of times in X amount of months, solely to satisfy THIS WIFE -REGARDLESS of how the children Feel , REGARDLESS of how the son/her husband feels and obviouly the Grandma looses ALL RIGHTS to feel anything- according to you. 

Am I understanding you correctly?


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## skoloco

Ok. So tonight was my first opportunity to make arrangements to meet with my mom and kids at the park while my wife was away. But my mom is MIA, have not talked to her in days. The only time i am left alone with my kids is Friday nights, when the wife works, for 4 hours. So i did not get a hold of my mother, so no plans were made. But I did tell my wife that if the occasion arises, what i plan to do and that i will let her know if I do so. I told her shortly before she was to leave , and she stormed off. She called me a few minutes later and said that i am going behind her back. She says i am being dishonest by making this decision. I explained that i would not do it with out informing her, but that i wasn't going to ask her permission either. 
She is blaming me for "ruining" her night and said she is going to come home early. I told her to Own her own feelings.... She added that she will not leave the house and quit her 4 hrs of work per week so that i will not have the opportunity to do such a thing. She also "warned" me not to do it and said i will be making a huge mistake.... I dont intend to back out, but finding the opportunity to meet with mom in the park may be extremely difficult if i dont have any alone time with my kids.
My father in-law was at our home and listened in on the phone conversation and is siding with his daughter...well, i don't blame him.. i would back my daughter too. He believes in putting my mom on a once a month visit with the children, supervised by my wife and me, for 6 months to "prove" she is worthy.... 
Well, i have a feeling things are going to get ugly as soon as wife comes home. I hope i did th right thing, I will update tomorrow.....











i


skoloco said:


> I like it, just state and do!!! i like the simplicity of it and have decided to make arrangements very soon. NO more discussing it with her.....it goes no where, and if this only makes things worse, then so be it, but hopefully this will wake her up.......


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## Therealbrighteyes

Any chance this is Flanders or Braveheart posting under a different name?
If not then here are my two cents. Is your wife in fact bat**** crazy? Is there any reason why she would think that your children would be harmed by your Mother? Perhaps your Mother has said or done things to your wife to lead her to believe that keeping your Mother out of the home is the best thing? Not sure. I need more details other than she smokes. That doesn't make her Hitler and unworthy of seeing her Grandchildren. More details please.


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## MEM2020

This is WAY bigger than that. His wife is saying that HE isn't capable of protecting his own children from his mother who - by the way - other than smoking - does not seem to be a menace at all. 

I actually think his best move now would be to tell his wife that she needs to increase her work hours a LOT because she is going to need to earn quite a bit more than 4 hours a week of income when he takes his paycheck and moves out. 

And I also think he should nicely tell his father in law that he would NEVER do to HIM, what she is trying to do to his mother. If I had a father in law who was making a bad situation worse - I would tell him that if he persisted he would not be welcome in my house. 

FWIW I have never had to do any of this crap as my wife has never tried to act like she has SOLE CONTROL over our children. 





Brennan said:


> Any chance this is Flanders or Braveheart posting under a different name?
> If not then here are my two cents. Is your wife in fact bat**** crazy? Is there any reason why she would think that your children would be harmed by your Mother? Perhaps your Mother has said or done things to your wife to lead her to believe that keeping your Mother out of the home is the best thing? Not sure. I need more details other than she smokes. That doesn't make her Hitler and unworthy of seeing her Grandchildren. More details please.


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## skoloco

Wife came home, gave me silent treatment....thats all for now...



skoloco said:


> Ok. So tonight was my first opportunity to make arrangements to meet with my mom and kids at the park while my wife was away. But my mom is MIA, have not talked to her in days. The only time i am left alone with my kids is Friday nights, when the wife works, for 4 hours. So i did not get a hold of my mother, so no plans were made. But I did tell my wife that if the occasion arises, what i plan to do and that i will let her know if I do so. I told her shortly before she was to leave , and she stormed off. She called me a few minutes later and said that i am going behind her back. She says i am being dishonest by making this decision. I explained that i would not do it with out informing her, but that i wasn't going to ask her permission either.
> She is blaming me for "ruining" her night and said she is going to come home early. I told her to Own her own feelings.... She added that she will not leave the house and quit her 4 hrs of work per week so that i will not have the opportunity to do such a thing. She also "warned" me not to do it and said i will be making a huge mistake.... I dont intend to back out, but finding the opportunity to meet with mom in the park may be extremely difficult if i dont have any alone time with my kids.
> My father in-law was at our home and listened in on the phone conversation and is siding with his daughter...well, i don't blame him.. i would back my daughter too. He believes in putting my mom on a once a month visit with the children, supervised by my wife and me, for 6 months to "prove" she is worthy....
> Well, i have a feeling things are going to get ugly as soon as wife comes home. I hope i did th right thing, I will update tomorrow.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i


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## skoloco

My mother just wants to be a grandmother, simply put. She will ask my wife why she is not allowed to do a certain something with our children. Then my mother will try to reason with my wife, and this is what really upsets my wife, when her authority is being questioned. My wife feels this questioning in front of the children is "bad mouthing" her as a mother. I understand she does not appreciate this, but should not be grounds for termination of contact with the children. I often argue with my wife about the same issues. For instance, I wanted to take the girls to the park on a Sunday afternoon. My wife insists that the girls (twins, 5 years old), need a nap every day prior to a school day. I dont agree with this and believe there should be acceptions, and flexibility. I just want to be a dad the same way my mom wants to be a grandmother and we dont always agree with my wife, which causes conflict. Its only natural to "fight" for what we believe in.



Brennan said:


> Any chance this is Flanders or Braveheart posting under a different name?
> If not then here are my two cents. Is your wife in fact bat**** crazy? Is there any reason why she would think that your children would be harmed by your Mother? Perhaps your Mother has said or done things to your wife to lead her to believe that keeping your Mother out of the home is the best thing? Not sure. I need more details other than she smokes. That doesn't make her Hitler and unworthy of seeing her Grandchildren. More details please.


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## skoloco

:iagree: True, she is is saying I am not capable of "protecting" the children and do take this very personal. I think this is just a manipulative excuse. I really dont see her truly believing this, as this would make me an incompetent father.


MEM11363 said:


> This is WAY bigger than that. His wife is saying that HE isn't capable of protecting his own children from his mother who - by the way - other than smoking - does not seem to be a menace at all.
> 
> I actually think his best move now would be to tell his wife that she needs to increase her work hours a LOT because she is going to need to earn quite a bit more than 4 hours a week of income when he takes his paycheck and moves out.
> 
> And I also think he should nicely tell his father in law that he would NEVER do to HIM, what she is trying to do to his mother. If I had a father in law who was making a bad situation worse - I would tell him that if he persisted he would not be welcome in my house.
> 
> FWIW I have never had to do any of this crap as my wife has never tried to act like she has SOLE CONTROL over our children.


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## skoloco

I have spent time on the verbal abuse sight, and ALOT of it making sense and is helpful. I definitely see a lot of the borderline TRAITS. 


Uptown said:


> Skoloco, please reread what AffairCare says -- and what Turnera is now suspecting -- that your W is verbally abusive and controlling. If your description is accurate, it sounds like your W may exhibit a strong pattern of personality disorder traits.
> 
> I am sensitive to this problem because my exW suffers from BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). That disorder makes her very controlling and, because she is fearful of abandonment, it also makes her jealous even of my family members. BPDers therefore typically try to isolate their spouses from friends and family members.
> 
> Moreover, because BPDers are impulsive and do black-white thinking, it is common for BPDers to love someone for months or years and then, in an instant, switch to hating them -- as your W has done with several members of her own family.
> 
> Significantly, I am not suggesting that your W's behavior would warrant a diagnosis of BPD. Only a professional can determine that. Instead, I am suggesting that she may have a strong pattern of BPD traits (or traits of another PD), which you are capable of recognizing if you take the time to read about them. You are capable of recognizing strong selfishness, for example, without being able to determine whether it is sufficiently severe to warrant a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
> 
> I therefore suggest that, in addition to reading the articles listed by Affaircare, you also read a short article describing what it is like to live with a person having strong BPD traits. It is at How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves - Roger Melton, M.A. . Best of luck to you.


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## cherrypie18

skoloco said:


> i cant explain, my mom does not do it intentionally, she just says what she is thinking, sometimes without thinking. Like telling my wife that it is "ridiculous" and "unfair" for my wife not to allow the piece of pie my kids are eating to be heated up. This statement led to a huge argument between the two. There was good reason for the pie not to be warmed up, and so my mother wanted to know why, which i think is reasonable, but my wife does not like being questioned, which i can also understand, but she is so rude about it...


She does not do it intentionally? Did your mother say that to you? lol I think by now she should know better than to speak "without" thinking first with your wife or anyone else for that matter. She IS a grown woman isn't she? 
And also, there's a WAY of wanting to know something, and perhaps your mother was a little pushy or judgmental instead of friendly.

I feel like she might be a bit pushy since your wife gets so defensive around her and argues over heating pie. She's either got anger problems or your mother has done something bigger in the past to make her this defensive. 

Unless your wife is a little crazy or has been controlling and "abusive" as some people here say from the very beginning of your relationship/marriage, there's gotta be a lot more to this story than what you're telling us. 

If you give us more examples of what your MOTHER does to provoke her we might get a better idea as to why your wife reacts this way.


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## skoloco

I came here because i am in dire need of help. We are going to couseling, and the counselors have told me they are at this point reluctant to diagnose my wife because they fear she will discontinue sessions completely if she feels she is being "targeted". Instead, they are focussing on issues as a whole, which is not helping. I am not coloring the picture of my wife at all. I am love her, and i am just trying to figure out the best way to handle her...
My mother and wife ARE very similar, so yes, its even more difficult


turnera said:


> If he's telling the truth about his wife, and not coloring it - and I'm not that sure - then his wife is looney tunes, and nothing will work with her. My Evil Stepmother was a lot like what he describes. She was on the verge of running away with my child, just to spite me. That crazy.
> 
> If he's being abused, and that's certainly possible, then there IS no negotiating with her - only setting his own boundaries and refusing to let her trample them.
> 
> If he indeed married a carbon copy of his mother - and that's VERY likely - there's even less chance for a decent resolution.
> 
> Lots of angles in this one.


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## cherrypie18

skoloco said:


> :iagree: True, she is is saying I am not capable of "protecting" the children and do take this very personal. I think this is just a manipulative excuse. I really dont see her truly believing this, as this would make me an incompetent father.


Well she doesn't trust you with the kids maybe because she feels like you would let your mother take charge if you took them to visit her instead of doing so yourself. 

Maybe she doesn't trust you because you haven't shown her you support her 100%

I don't know maybe I'm completely wrong...


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## LaStrada

skoloco said:


> My mother just wants to be a grandmother, simply put. She will ask my wife why she is not allowed to do a certain something with our children. Then my mother will try to reason with my wife, and this is what really upsets my wife, when her authority is being questioned. My wife feels this questioning in front of the children is "bad mouthing" her as a mother. I understand she does not appreciate this, but should not be grounds for termination of contact with the children. I often argue with my wife about the same issues. For instance, I wanted to take the girls to the park on a Sunday afternoon. My wife insists that the girls (twins, 5 years old), need a nap every day prior to a school day. I dont agree with this and believe there should be acceptions, and flexibility. I just want to be a dad the same way my mom wants to be a grandmother and we dont always agree with my wife, which causes conflict. Its only natural to "fight" for what we believe in.


To grow up and be successful, your children need clear standards, healthy beliefs, opportunities, skills and recognition.

The old saying "do as I say, not as I do" doesn't cut it.

You and your wife have to agree on certain things - If you FIGHT for what YOU and only you believe in, then what message are you sending to your children about the trust, communication skills and love that you have for your wife, and family as a whole? All these other issues aside...Like someone else said...The children need to come first. And sometimes that means putting aside your differences and doing what's right before addressing your personal needs and thoughts.

Work on not doing things that you know will piss her off, so that you can at least start this off again on level playing ground.


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## skoloco

cherrypie18 said:


> She does not do it intentionally? Did your mother say that to you? lol I think by now she should know better than to speak "without" thinking first with your wife or anyone else for that matter. She IS a grown woman isn't she?
> And also, there's a WAY of wanting to know something, and perhaps your mother was a little pushy or judgmental instead of friendly.
> 
> I feel like she might be a bit pushy since your wife gets so defensive around her and argues over heating pie. She's either got anger problems or your mother has done something bigger in the past to make her this defensive.
> 
> Unless your wife is a little crazy or has been controlling and "abusive" as some people here say from the very beginning of your relationship/marriage, there's gotta be a lot more to this story than what you're telling us.
> 
> If you give us more examples of what your MOTHER does to provoke her we might get a better idea as to why your wife reacts this way.


Many people have told my wife, including her father, she has anger issues and should seek anger management.
Another example i think of that caused my wife to be mad at my mom is my mothers giving of gifts to the kids, and me. The last time we were all together, my mom gave me a candle, and the kids new folders for school.. My wife tried to refuse the gifts, even though not for her, which really hurt my moms feelings. Giving small gifts makes my my mom happy, it is one of the ways she communicates her love. Wife told my mom, " NO!, they dont need school folders, they already have some" and then told me not to accept the candle, that we dont have room for any more "junk". I have been trying to clean up the house, and this is when she finally decides she wants to worry about accumulating anything else. So, anyways, i took the gifts from my mother, gave the folders to the kids, and tossed the candle later on to give my wife some dignity, i could care less about the candle. 
Wife does not like to accept anything from my mom, even a brand new bag of dog food for our dogs, my wife managed to talk me out of feeding it to the dogs somehow, she had a million excuses, and we wound up putting the dog food on craigslist since it retailed for about 40 bucks. I was exhausted from the arguing and got tired of bringing the dog foodback in the house. She would put it in the garage, i bring it back in and so forth. It just wasnt worth the turmoil.


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## Uptown

> I have spent time on the verbal abuse site, and A LOT of it making sense and is helpful. I definitely see a lot of the borderline TRAITS.


I am glad that you found the BPDfamily.com site helpful. It is the largest and most active BPD site that I have found that is targeted to the partners and spouses living with high functioning BPDers (if she were low functioning, you never would have married her to begin with). I suggest that you copy and paste your background story there in the "Deciding Whether to Leave or Stay" message board. You will receive an enormous amount of support from many other people who are dealing with the very same types of issues.

A 2008 study of nearly 35,000 BPDers found that, at some point in their adult lives, roughly 6% of the population has BPD at the diagnostic level. I would not be surprised if an additional 6% has BPD traits so strong that living with them is very difficult even though the traits are below the diagnostic level. This is why it is so important for young people searching for a mate to learn how to identify the red flags for this disorder.


> my mother will try to reason with my wife, and this is what really upsets my wife, when her authority is being questioned. ... I often argue with my wife about the same issues.


If your wife has strong BPD traits, her emotions are so intense when she is under stress that her feelings constitute her reality. That is, she regards her feelings to be facts and it is pointless to try to reason with her at that time. 

Indeed, it may be impossible to reason with her even when she is not under stress because such challenges to her judgment will trigger her inner anger (carried since childhood), causing her to immediately become stressful. BPD sufferers have difficulty regulating their emotions and their feelings can become intense in a few seconds.

If that seems strange, just recall the times in the last year that you got extremely angry -- to the point that you realized your judgment was clouded and you were incapable of seeing things clearly. Because you were still in touch with your adult logic, you knew to keep your mouth shut -- and your fingers off the keys -- until you had time to cool down.

Well, BPDers experience those irrational moments far more often. One reason is that their anger is easily triggered because they are unable to regulate their emotions. Another is that, when they become angry, they consciously lose all touch with the adult logical part of their minds. This is why it is often said that BPDers are not interested in finding solutions but, rather, in creating drama.


> She is is saying I am not capable of "protecting" the children .... I think this is just a manipulative excuse. I really don't see her truly believing this, as this would make me an incompetent father.


Because BPDers grew up in such an out-of-control environment, it is extremely important to them to have as much control as possible over their loved ones. To achieve that, they will lie if necessary -- saying things they do not believe. And, because their feelings are often so intense, they sometimes will believe the incredible accusations coming out of their mouths. 

With my exW, I would have driven myself crazy if I had tried to tease apart all the lies from the outrageous claims that she sincerely believed in. I never knew for certain, then, what was a misperception (caused by her thought disorder) and what was a flat-out lie.



> My father in-law was at our home and listened in on the phone conversation and is siding with his daughter.


Well, the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. This is why, at the BPD sites, the conventional wisdom is that you should not run telling her family that you have learned she has strong BPD traits. They won't believe it and she won't believe it. 

Indeed, if she has strong traits as you now suspect, she will project your suspicions back onto you -- accusing you of having BPD traits. Significantly, such projection works only at an unconscious level. This means that she will truly believe that it is you that has the strong traits of BPD.


> I did tell my wife ... what i plan to do and that i will let her know if I do so. ...and she stormed off.


It sounds to me like you are doing the right thing. The spouses of BPDers are so used to giving in to avoid an ugly temper tantrum that they always feel they are waking on eggshells. Indeed, the most popular book targeted to those nonBPD spouses is called "Stop Walking on Eggshells."


> The counselors have told me they are at this point reluctant to diagnose my wife because they fear she will discontinue sessions completely if she feels she is being "targeted". Instead, they are focusing on issues as a whole, which is not helping.


They likely are correct. If your W has strong traits of BPD, she likely will quit if they identify any of her flaws. She needs treatment by a psychologist who is very skilled in treating that disorder. Marriage counselors are not trained to identify it, much less treat it. 

Moreover, their specialty is teaching couples how to improve their communication skills -- which will be wholly ineffective if you are dealing with a BPDer because calm rational discussions to get a "meeting of the minds" or a compromise are simply impossible.

Even if you are going to a psychologist, there is little chance he will give you a diagnosis of BPD for her (even if it is warranted) -- unless you are seeing him without her present. One reason, as you already learned, is that BPDers typically will terminate treatment when given that diagnosis. 

At heart, BPDers dislike themselves and have an unstable sense of who they are. The last thing they want to hear is one more thing to add to the long list of things they hate about themselves. This is why it is very unusual for a BPDer to remain in therapy long enough to make a difference.

Another reason the psychologists are reluctant to render such a diagnosis is that insurance companies usually do not cover BPD -- which, of course, means the clients will drop out for that reason. So the psychologists seem to be far more likely to list the diagnosis as one of the associated symptoms that is covered by insurance. They thus may list it, for example, as bipolar or unipolar depression or PTSD.

Over a 15 year period, I spent over $200,000 taking my exW to weekly meetings with six different psychologists -- not one of which ever used the term "BPD," never mind that my exW strongly exhibits all nine traits and is a text book example of a BPDer -- and never mind that she was sexually abused for years as a young child.


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## MEM2020

Sko,

There is no way your mother and wife can be together without a high likelihood of MAJOR conflict. So the only solution is the one that you have selected, which is to keep your wife away from the visits with your mother. 

You need to do two things in your marriage:
- Take control of your money AND
- Go to limited communication LC mode with your wife until she realizes you are serious. LC means you only discuss required items - kids schedules etc. 

This is a very powerful message that you are no longer willing to tolerate her behavior. But you also have to recognize that if you assert yourself your marriage may end. On the other hand, if you let your wife continue to treat you like a doormat you are teaching your children that her behavior is ok - because you are tolerating it. By the way - if you complain - but don't succeed in changing her behavior - you are still communicating to the kids that what she is doing is ok. Part of what you will be conveying is that core family relationships are not that high a priority - and that minor conflict (about heating pie) can be the basis for ending them. 

I KNOW that is the opposite of how you feel Sko, but the kids will model their behavior on what actually HAPPENS in the house, not on how you feel or how your wife feels about a situation. So you can tell them you disagree - but if they see her successfully cut your mom out of their lives - that is what they are learning. 




skoloco said:


> Many people have told my wife, including her father, she has anger issues and should seek anger management.
> Another example i think of that caused my wife to be mad at my mom is my mothers giving of gifts to the kids, and me. The last time we were all together, my mom gave me a candle, and the kids new folders for school.. My wife tried to refuse the gifts, even though not for her, which really hurt my moms feelings. Giving small gifts makes my my mom happy, it is one of the ways she communicates her love. Wife told my mom, " NO!, they dont need school folders, they already have some" and then told me not to accept the candle, that we dont have room for any more "junk". I have been trying to clean up the house, and this is when she finally decides she wants to worry about accumulating anything else. So, anyways, i took the gifts from my mother, gave the folders to the kids, and tossed the candle later on to give my wife some dignity, i could care less about the candle.
> Wife does not like to accept anything from my mom, even a brand new bag of dog food for our dogs, my wife managed to talk me out of feeding it to the dogs somehow, she had a million excuses, and we wound up putting the dog food on craigslist since it retailed for about 40 bucks. I was exhausted from the arguing and got tired of bringing the dog foodback in the house. She would put it in the garage, i bring it back in and so forth. It just wasnt worth the turmoil.


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## turnera

> I dont intend to back out, but finding the opportunity to meet with mom in the park may be extremely difficult if i dont have any alone time with my kids.


Aside from your wife's mental issues - which I suspect mirror your mom's a lot - why do you keep acting like YOU don't have the right to decide when YOU have alone time with your own kids?

Is it just from umpteen years of giving in to her, just to keep the peace? If that's the case, then you have GOT to start standing up for yourself. If you don't, your kids are going to grow up to become complete looney toons from watching you two. They are NOT getting consistent, HEALTHY direction from EITHER of you.

If you're too afraid to stand up for yourself, then get the balls to stand up for your KIDS.


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## skoloco

Wow UPTOWN, you have done your homework, i dont mean that sarcastically either. You have obviously read through the posts and i appreciate your time and thoughts, this will all be very helpfull. We are seeing marriage counselors, not psychs, so what you said all makes sense. I would say she definately has the strong traits of BPD. And when you say "walking on eggshells" that is how i feel the moment i walk in the door when I get home. I try to get a feel for her mood. I can usually tell within in our first minute of interacting, what kind of night its going to be, and if i need to carefully walk those eggshells. But even then sometimes the strangest thing will turn her mood around.


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## skoloco

turnera said:


> Aside from your wife's mental issues - which I suspect mirror your mom's a lot - why do you keep acting like YOU don't have the right to decide when YOU have alone time with your own kids?
> 
> Is it just from umpteen years of giving in to her, just to keep the peace? If that's the case, then you have GOT to start standing up for yourself. If you don't, your kids are going to grow up to become complete looney toons from watching you two. They are NOT getting consistent, HEALTHY direction from EITHER of you.
> 
> If you're too afraid to stand up for yourself, then get the balls to stand up for your KIDS.


I know i have the right to alone time, and i actually set up a time once a week when i pick them up from school, and then we do some outdoor activities. My wife has agreed to this after long long discussions. She prefers them to take a nap everyday, but i dont want them napping, especially if thats the only time i get to spend with them. 
We have lived together 6 years. My children are 5. 
I see the impact it is having on them and that is why I am making a stand. I used to believe that i would do anything to make this marriage, for the kids sake, but, as i am finding, is not the best thing for them. I am ready to take what ever comes with what i am dishing out now. I would like it to all work out, but if it doesn't, then it doesn't.
My worst fear for the children has been that if me and their mom separate, I wont be able to be there for them to give them guidance, and some sanity, not that i wont try, but look what i am dealing with. And we all know that when things go sour in a marriage, the wife and kids stay in the house, the husband leaves. And Im sure she will use that to her advantage 
and i would not likely get custody of them. And with my work sched, I would get little time with them, as it is limited already. I know they cant continue to live in this environment and I feel it would be detrimental to their health if we separate, and i dont get custody of the children. I will have completely failed them if this happens. 
i told my wife that i plan to visit grandma with the kids. now ill just have to wait and see what happens next friday, which is the only night of the week my wife will be away. She already stated that she wont leave the house, as she intends to prevent me from taking the girls to see grandma. If this happens ..1) I will not drag the kids out of the house or become violent, which she will try and provoke as she has in the past, like by using herself as a human blockade, I dont fall for it. 2) I WILL have to take the next step, possibly packing up and leaving the house. 3) She may feel she has won this "battle" but i intend to move forward with any necessarily actions to put my children back into a healthy environment.
Who knows, maybe she will just go to work for the 4 hours like she is supposed to, and then try and "punish" me when she gets home or...
the least likely scenario
she will go about her business and "give in" realizing i mean business.


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## Susan2010

skoloco said:


> Another example i think of that caused my wife to be mad at my mom is my mothers giving of gifts to the kids, and me. The last time we were all together, my mom gave me a candle, and the kids new folders for school..


That is nothing but rude for her to walk in with gifts for everyone but your wife. Your wife is sick of her and I don't blame her. Oh boohoo my mother just wants to be a grandmother. Yeah, right. I guess to get any more truth about your mother will cost you your incisors. You won't have any teeth when you're finally done, but bit by bit and little by little you tell the truth about your mother, while still blaming your wife. You keep making her out to be such a monster to structure opinion in your favor. Too bad it's working, but that doesn't make your wife wrong in this. She is absolutely right to try to keep your mother away from her children. You make her out to be crazy, borderline personality, in desperate need of anger management. I don't know what she is and don't care. I do know she is sane and lucid enough to recognize your mother is poison.


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## turnera

But I don't understand. If you say you are taking the kids out, just _take.the.kids.out._

IF she literally blockades the door like you say she does, call in some reinforcements. Invite your friends or neighbors over that day; tell them what's going on and ask them to be there as a witness, so that you will be 'allowed' to take your children out of the house on your own. You can imagine how crazy that makes your wife sound. Just have someone there, for the one hour where you DO take the kids out for a night out with you. 

fwiw, I am NOT telling you to divorce your wife. I really see no reason for that. The only thing I SEE that needs to happen is for YOU to start standing up to your wife. She can't blockade the door every time you try to do something she can't control. She may get crazy, but if she does, just get witnesses and have her committed for observation. 

Bottom line is that this all calls for you to grow a pair (no offense, because I DO understand how you got that way) and start calling her bluff, and stepping up and becoming the MAN of the house and the LEADER of the house. Who knows? That may just be what she needs? Maybe she's a pack mentality kind of person, and she needs you to step in and become Alpha Male. (can you tell I just went to puppy training class today?)


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## turnera

Susan2010 said:


> That is nothing but rude for her to walk in with gifts for everyone but your wife. Your wife is sick of her and I don't blame her. Oh boohoo my mother just wants to be a grandmother. Yeah, right. I guess to get any more truth about your mother will cost you your incisors. You won't have any teeth when you're finally done, but bit by bit and little by little you tell the truth about your mother, while still blaming your wife. You keep making her out to be such a monster to structure opinion in your favor. Too bad it's working, but that doesn't make your wife wrong in this. She is absolutely right to try to keep your mother away from her children. You make her out to be crazy, borderline personality, in desperate need of anger management. I don't know what she is and don't care. I do know she is sane and lucid enough to recognize your mother is poison.


 Excellent observation. You admitted she is just like your mom. Think about it.


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## cherrypie18

Susan2010 said:


> That is nothing but rude for her to walk in with gifts for everyone but your wife. Your wife is sick of her and I don't blame her. Oh boohoo my mother just wants to be a grandmother. Yeah, right. I guess to get any more truth about your mother will cost you your incisors. You won't have any teeth when you're finally done, but bit by bit and little by little you tell the truth about your mother, while still blaming your wife. You keep making her out to be such a monster to structure opinion in your favor. Too bad it's working, but that doesn't make your wife wrong in this. She is absolutely right to try to keep your mother away from her children. You make her out to be crazy, borderline personality, in desperate need of anger management. I don't know what she is and don't care. I do know she is sane and lucid enough to recognize your mother is poison.


I agree with you and still think there's a lot more to why his wife hates his mom, he's just not telling us either because he's blind and in denial about his mom or is a momma's boy like my h and mother can do no wrong. Even after he pretended to stand up for me sometimes, he'd later tell me I gave them a reason to diss me.

After my own MIl putting me and even my parents down a bit too much I started being defensive around her and took her every word as an attack. Nobody says things without thinking. Only the stupid dumb people who's IQs are really low do and I'm sure his mom is not one of them lol


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## skoloco

Susan2010 said:


> That is nothing but rude for her to walk in with gifts for everyone but your wife. Your wife is sick of her and I don't blame her. Oh boohoo my mother just wants to be a grandmother. Yeah, right. I guess to get any more truth about your mother will cost you your incisors. You won't have any teeth when you're finally done, but bit by bit and little by little you tell the truth about your mother, while still blaming your wife. You keep making her out to be such a monster to structure opinion in your favor. Too bad it's working, but that doesn't make your wife wrong in this. She is absolutely right to try to keep your mother away from her children. You make her out to be crazy, borderline personality, in desperate need of anger management. I don't know what she is and don't care. I do know she is sane and lucid enough to recognize your mother is poison.


 Im not making anyone to be a monster, if u feel that way about her,thats ur opinion. 
We were in a parking lot, in our car when my mother gave the items. Yes, she offered me the candle because she was on my side of the car, after my wife rolled up the window on her, and she came to my side. I asked the two of them not to speak to one another at that point. My mom wanted us to drive over to her car so she could give us something, NOW THAT WAS LIKE PULLING TEETH with my wife, she didnt even want to go over there. Now im done explaining myself to you as you you need every little detail to see what is really going on here.


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## skoloco

yes, thank u


turnera said:


> But I don't understand. If you say you are taking the kids out, just _take.the.kids.out._
> 
> IF she literally blockades the door like you say she does, call in some reinforcements. Invite your friends or neighbors over that day; tell them what's going on and ask them to be there as a witness, so that you will be 'allowed' to take your children out of the house on your own. You can imagine how crazy that makes your wife sound. Just have someone there, for the one hour where you DO take the kids out for a night out with you.
> 
> fwiw, I am NOT telling you to divorce your wife. I really see no reason for that. The only thing I SEE that needs to happen is for YOU to start standing up to your wife. She can't blockade the door every time you try to do something she can't control. She may get crazy, but if she does, just get witnesses and have her committed for observation.
> 
> Bottom line is that this all calls for you to grow a pair (no offense, because I DO understand how you got that way) and start calling her bluff, and stepping up and becoming the MAN of the house and the LEADER of the house. Who knows? That may just be what she needs? Maybe she's a pack mentality kind of person, and she needs you to step in and become Alpha Male. (can you tell I just went to puppy training class today?)


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## cherrypie18

skoloco said:


> Im not making anyone to be a monster, if u feel that way about her,thats ur opinion.
> We were in a parking lot, in our car when my mother gave the items. Yes, she offered me the candle because she was on my side of the car, after my wife rolled up the window on her, and she came to my side. I asked the two of them not to speak to one another at that point. My mom wanted us to drive over to her car so she could give us something, NOW THAT WAS LIKE PULLING TEETH with my wife, she didnt even want to go over there. Now im done explaining myself to you as you you need every little detail to see what is really going on here.


You see skoloco, it's the details that change everything about a story/problem. 
It's really easy to just say something like "my wife hates my mother" but once you give details, the story changes and I guess you don't want the story to change lol

Why does your wife hate her? Your wife is just mental like that out of the blue? Or has she always hated your mother from day 1 or has something big actually happened that made her hate your mother? 

You haven't really been very specific about what lead to this hate. You only told us your mother provokes her, says things without thinking (this would actually annoy a lot of people), and that your wife is just a crazy control freak who has BPD.


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## cherrypie18

skoloco said:


> there is absolutely nothing wrong with her taking charge, but to rule it with an iron fist is just an fair, especially since i am trying to be a part of it. My mother has learned to control her self and has been willing to change and do what ever it takes to make things work, where as my wife has made it clear that she doesnt ever want herself or her kids to go to grandmas, and wont allow her to come to our house, which is why i am here. I can reason and put up with some of my wifes requests, but when she said my mom isnt allowed in our house at all, this is where i have trouble..


Your mother has learned to _control herself_ and change...this to me says that she must have been horrible to your wife in the past...
Plus the fact that you said your mother and wife are very similar...then your mother too must be a control freak?


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## Uptown

skoloco said:


> I would say she definitely has the strong traits of BPD. ...I try to get a feel for her mood. I can usually tell within in our first minute of interacting... But even then sometimes the strangest thing will turn her mood around.


Skoloco, when a person has strong BPD traits, they have an enormous amount of anger inside that is easily triggered by an innocent comment or innocuous action. As I discussed earlier, the anger and rage of a BPDer is _event triggered_ -- far different than the mood swings resulting from bipolar disorder, which is caused by slow changes in _body chemistry_. This is why bipolar usually can be treated successfully with pills but BPD cannot.

On top of that unstable mood, BPDers do black-white thinking far more frequently than other people. Like everyone else, you do it when you are suddenly scared or startled. The human brain is hard-wired to do black-white thinking instantly when startled. In those instances, it is all you are capable of doing, e.g., when you are in a crosswalk and suddenly see a truck bearing down on you, your mind is only capable of thinking "jump left" or "jump right." 

Well, if your W has strong BPD traits as you suspect, she likely does that type of thinking (called "splitting") very often, perhaps several times a day when she is stressed. And, as I noted above, it takes only the tiniest comment or action to trigger her stress.

The combined result of those two traits (i.e., the splitting and the quick anger) is that within a few seconds she likely can flip from one view to its diametrically opposed view -- that is, she can flip almost instantly from splitting you _white_ (i.e., adoring you) to splitting you _black_ (i.e., demonizing you). And she can do that with respect to other people and things too. 

With BPDers, then, it is not uncommon to see them end a friendship -- over some trivial remark or perceived slight -- with someone they have been friends with for two years. Hence, although they may have lots of casual friends and business colleagues, they tend to have few -- if any -- close friends in the long term. 

Similarly, it is not uncommon to see them buy expensive things that -- two weeks later -- they lose interest in entirely. So, like you say, "sometimes the strangest thing will turn her mood around."


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## MomofBoys

There's one easy answer to this common problem: Your wife is right. 

Yes! Even if she's wrong! Let me explain: Your mother has had her own marriage (presumably) and her own shot at mothering. This is your wife's turn. End of story.


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## cherrypie18

MomofBoys said:


> There's one easy answer to this common problem: Your wife is right.
> 
> Yes! Even if she's wrong! Let me explain: Your mother has had her own marriage (presumably) and her own shot at mothering. This is your wife's turn. End of story.


This is exactly what I used to tell my own husband about his own mother!


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## skoloco

its been a few weeks and i thought i would give you all an update. A lot has happened. First of all, when i made my stand, told my wife i was going to take the kids to the park to see my mother, My mom skipped town for a 2 week vaca, which was only suppose to last a couple days. The friday i was planning to meet with her, she was MIA, she doesnt have a cell phone and did not bother to call till the following week to let me know what was going on. I was hoping to meet with her again the following friday, along with the kids, but she was still away, and this was the last friday my wife had scheduled to work. 
Now when I had told my wife that friday evining 3 weeks ago what my plans were, i was hoping my mom would call, but she didnt. My wife was very angry as explained in one of my last posts, and threatened to not go to work the following friday... A couple days after i told her of my plans, she MELLOWED out, bigtime. So, i had to ask her how come she wasnt still mad at me. She said "God will take care of it". I was shocked, and that was a good enough answer for me. 
The next friday came around and my wife went to work, and did not even ask me if i was planning to see my mom. I still had not heard from her, but my wife did not know this, for all she knew, i was going to visit with her. 
My mom came back a few days later and was excstatic about my decision, however i informed her i was not going to go out of my way to make plans with my mom and the kids and exclude my wife from them. 
we all went to our counseling session the next tuesday( my mom had missed 2 previous sessions) and wile passing in the hallway, my mom broke down in tears and my wife and her wound up hugging, and they both exchanged some NICE words, for a change
We made plans, wife included, to go to the park the following friday, which we did. My mom wound up being an hour late, as usual, but did not fase my wife. I think it upset me more than her that she was late. But i didnt make a big deal of it. My mom and wife were actulally "hanging out" and talking at the park. Where as in the past, my wife would keep her distance and only give short replies if my mom asked a question.
I discussed with my wife going out to dinner and inviting my mom, while were at the park. My wife obliged and furthermore, invited my mom over to our house before going to dinner. So my mom came over for about 20 minutes and wound up staying out in front with the girls and my father in law, talking, although, she was was welcome in the house, she chose, not to come in. 
A few nights later my mom asked (my wife) if she could come over to pick something up (I was at work). She did, and went well.
So i guess GOD did take care of it, atleast for now, i would like to think putting my foot down had something to do with it, i will never know, nor do i really care. Just happy things are going in the right direction.
Now my mom needs to work on her personal issues, like allways being late, which will cause problems if she doesnt do something about it soon. My relationship with my wife has took a 180 degree turn in the right direction.


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## skoloco

thanks to all those who replied , and i will update again in a couple weeks


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## Uptown

Skoloco, what wonderful news! I am very happy for you! I am hopeful that your W will hold the course and prove me wrong about her having strong BPD traits. I wouldn't wish those traits on anyone. And, Lord knows, your family deserves the peace and loving exchange. I will look forward to reading your next report in a couple of weeks.


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## turnera

Great news. I want to say that someone talked to her, maybe, put the fear of God into her about losing you if she continues the feud.


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## MidwestDave

MEM11363 said:


> Sisters,
> It really is ok if the two of them cannot get along. It really is NOT ok for wife to try to freeze grandma out of their life. NOT ok. NOT ok.
> 
> By the way - even if S2010 is partly right and grandma is a difficult person - being difficult is not a valid basis for being denied interaction with your grandkids.


That sums it up perfectly. I think there are some pretty serious issues with both skoloco and his wife. She sounds like a control freak; he sounds like he is in a state of denial about how dysfunctional their marriage is. Wow. I really feel for these people. My situation is even worse than skoloco so I can relate...


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