# I am a complete non-priority to my spouse.



## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

My wife is a high school teacher and loves her job. I’d say she loves it too much.
She’ll spend hours putting together elaborate powerpoint presentations with embedded videos, sound tracks .etc.. Always gives tests that are essays (takes 10 times longer to create and 10 times longer to grade) because “it truly sees how the student understands the subject.” She stays after school to tudor anyone that needs it, coaches and volunteers for endless activities, etc.
This all sounds wonderful except for the person married to her. Honestly, I would say she works 70+ hours a week during the school year on school related activities. Bear in mind, it pays no more than if she was a teacher who was looking for the most time efficient, easiest route.
From my perspective, I wish she had a regular 9-to-5 job.
With two teenage kids, I’m spending all my free time picking up the slack. 100% of the yard work, 100% of the paperwork (banking, bills, insurance, taxes, etc.) 80% of the laundry, 80% of the house cleaning, no one cooks. You get the picture. The one thing she does is helps the kids with their homework, if needed. That is a help for I’m lost on most of it.
Then when the summer rolls around, (two months) she shuts down completely. Sleeps until 10:00am doesn’t do much that she doesn’t feel like. Hangs out, goes on small trips with the kids while I continue to work (my job is year round). I still continue with 100% of the yard work, 100% of the paperwork, only the laundry and house work is more evenly dispersed and occasionally she’ll make a meal (preparing stuff for me to grill out when I get home).
Needless to say, she has no time for me. Its the job, the kids and collapse into bed (expect summer).
I’ve often thought to myself I would have no problem adjusting to being a bachelor other than it would be 3/4th less work.
Your thoughts?


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

Have you sat down and expressed this to her. Said the words that you have thought of leaving.

Only really one of two things going on here. She is unaware she is neglecting the marriage or she doesn't care. My x didn't care that all things came before me. Yours may care but you have to communicate first to be sure

Good luck


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

I agree with Wolf. 

Also,I'm not an advocate of divorce but my personal experience with not being a priority to my spouse ended in divorce.He never could make me a priority.ever.chance after chance. 

Typically for these types of people to change you have to shove divorce papers in their face if they even change at all. This type of situation is how walk away spouses happen. 

You talk and you talk.You try to explain in a thousand different ways.Nothing sinks in til it's too late.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

The thing is I’m pretty self-sufficient at keeping myself amused. I’m certainly not at a loss of what to do without her. I do enjoy her company when she does have some free time (which is rare) and is relaxed (which is even more rare).
I have a lot of interests, a lot of friends asking me to do stuff with them, etc. The frustrating thing is I don’t get to enjoy them but rarely because I’m too busy dealing with household tasks (along with my full time job).


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Kahlil, how long has your wife been a high school teacher? It is pretty common for a dedicated teacher in years 1-3 of their careers to be overwhelmed by the job and really need to put in 70-80 hour weeks to stay on top of things. 

After a few years, most teachers become more efficient and can reduce the need for spending so much time working. Most veteran teachers I know can realistically achieve a work-life balance that doesn't make obnoxious demands on their spouse.

I must admit that my during first summer break I behaved much like your wife does. I was gassed beyond belief. Since then, I take over most of the domestic duties during the summer to give my wife a little break.

If your wife is a veteran teacher, however, I would have a very serious conversation about the sustainability of your family lifestyle. I have known teachers who lose themselves in the job, and in addition to the stresses they put on their families they are often not ideal teachers. She needs to know that teachers are models, and that workaholism isn't a good model for her students.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Could it be that the super work load is just a smokescreen to avoid you and the kids?

My wife works long hours and for the most part paces herself to be unavailable when I'm home from my normal hours job...

As long as her paycheck clears.... :rofl: some people can't handle a job and marriage. I have been told that her work overwhelms her ability to act like a normal person (as if I haven't heard this one )


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I taught high school 19 years ago. I put in a lot of time, too. It is just one of those jobs where it can consume all of you, all the time. It is kind of like parenting.

I agree with the others. Have a heart to heart with her. Just lay it all out there. See if you can tackle the project of making your marriage a priority together.

Is there any chance she could get a different job, or stop working altogether? I don't know how I could have kept on teaching with a family.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Big Dude said:


> Kahlil, how long has your wife been a high school teacher? It is pretty common for a dedicated teacher in years 1-3 of their careers to be overwhelmed by the job and really need to put in 70-80 hour weeks to stay on top of things.
> 
> After a few years, most teachers become more efficient and can reduce the need for spending so much time working. Most veteran teachers I know can realistically achieve a work-life balance that doesn't make obnoxious demands on their spouse.
> 
> ...


She is in her 5th year of being back full time. She took 9 years off when the kids were born/young.
Adding to her load she teaches a honors course which eliminates the discipline problems most teachers must put up with but is also much more time consuming. She is also head of NHS and volunteers to be a speech & debate judge & assistant (both my kids are on the team). Plus, her non-honors classes keep getting changed, so she has to start from scratch with new lesson plans, presentations, tests, etc.
I do agree with you teaching is no cake career, especially at the high school level. I see other teachers’ cars in the parking lot super early and there late, but think her situation is still towards the overworked end of things. 

How did your spouse feel about it when you were working 70-80 hour weeks with pay that equals a regular 9-5 job somewhere else? 

Its like the worst of both worlds, the person is never there because they are always working and don’t make enough money to help with the slack dumped on the other spouse who is trying to keep things together.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

When you talk to her about reallocating her time start with a positive about your relationship. That'll get things off on a neutral start. Perhaps approaching things from the standpoint of missing her as a wife, mother and friend. 

Her kids have first priority on her time. In fairness to them she needs to rethink the time she is giving her children while giving to others. 

The fair distribution of chores - let her know that you have decided to leave chores for her to do and tell her what they are. Don't do anything that you have asked her to do. Let it go undone if she does not do it. 

Also, you have decided that the lack of exercise is affecting your health and you are going to exercise 3 days a week and she will have to pick up the slack on those days. 

The time she devotes to her marriage - come up with a plan for new activities and you would like her to join you. for just the two of you. If not then do them yourself. Take two WE a month to do your thing. Update your look and get some new duds. 

Stop being her appendage. Don't worry about her objections. She is overburdening you and what you are doing is fair for both of you. She is not entitled to give your time and that of her children to strangers. Just know that you are right and fair. 

She may get angry and rationalize to defend her position. Just repeat the theme of fairness, responsibility for her children and the relationship. Ask her to offer an alternative to your plan if she does not agree. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

First things first...

Please don't make the mistake of thinking that there's something 'wrong' with your wife. There may be plenty of men out there who would have no issues with the situation you're describing. So, when you DO discuss this (I'm assuming you will, at some point), please keep this in mind. Also, please don't automatically think the WORST about her (she's deliberately avoiding you...she's lazy...she's outgrowing you...). Chances are, she's in her own world, and simply got caught up in her own life. She's probably completely unaware of how much time she's spending on her career, and since it seems that you've never really complained about this before, it would be unfair for you to hand her your laundry list of complaints. 

Second of all, look at yourself first. You wrote that she spends "70+ hours" on school related stuff. Are you SURE it's 70+ hours and not 52...or 59...or 48? Is it possibly MORE than 70? In other words, don't exaggerate or understate. If you actually did a study, you might be surprised to discover that she's spending 56 hours on school stuff and actually doing 75% of the laundry. But to YOU it might "feel" like 70 and that you're doing more than your fair share. So again, when it comes time for you to discuss this, be accurate and stick to the facts. Don't start throwing our percentages unless you know FOR A FACT what those percentages are. 

Third. Regarding the paperwork and caring for the house, cooking, laundry etc., what arrangement did you BOTH come to before she went back to work? Like many married couples, it seems that you both may have believed that "things would work themselves out", and never sat down together to discuss the _details_ of how family life could change for both of you. 

Fourth. When it's time to discuss this, do it without accusing, blaming or playing the victim. Don't say, "I think I'm doing more than my fair share and YOU aren't doing much of anything!" That will put her on the defensive immediately, and it probably wouldn't even be true. You can tell her what you've observed and even ask her how SHE feels about working as many hours as she's working. 

Fifth. Tell her that your marriage is important to you, and you want to work with her _as a team_, to come up with a plan that's beneficial to BOTH of you. Please understand that there is a big difference between what is "fair" vs. what is "equal". Your goal is to be FAIR to one another. Hypothetically, if I loved cooking, but hated taking out the trash, I would just as soon PAY someone to take it out, even though it takes me an HOUR to cook, and only 3 minutes to take the trash out. If someone took out the trash for me each night, and I cooked each night, I just might see that as a "fair" trade because of how much I hated taking out the trash! 

Sixth. PUT THE KIDS TO WORK. You guys are a FAMILY and your children are now teenagers. They are perfectly capable of picking up some of the slack for BOTH of you. Maybe you can agree that one night a week, the children will 'cook' for the parents, even if it means that they make frozen t.v. dinners. Maybe you can both give the kids the task of doing the laundry, some housework and/or yard work on the weekends before they go anywhere. 

It seems like you need some good old fashioned effective communication and negotiations in order to solve this dilemma. All you can do is try it and see what happens. 

Of course, if you DO try and she shuts down completely (refuses to see your point of view), you have a whole different problem! But your first course of action is to TRY...

Vega


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> When you talk to her about reallocating her time start with a positive about your relationship. That'll get things off on a neutral start. Perhaps approaching things from the standpoint of missing her as a wife, mother and friend.
> 
> Her kids have first priority on her time. In fairness to them she needs to rethink the time she is giving her children while giving to others.
> 
> ...


All good advice.
In regards to leaving things undone, she has less pride/responsibility than me in that arena.
She would just assume the house be a wreck and weeds growing up all over the yard than find time or do herself. 

A classic example is the cats. I’m not a big fan of cats, but she insisted on getting two. Every morning I go down to the basement and feed them instead of hearing them howl to be fed while everyone is scurrying around to get ready in the morning. I refuse to have anything to do with the litter boxes. As a result, they are disgusting and overflowing but she is too busy to fuss with it.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Of course she does not step up, she knows you will eventually. Don't leave it undone until you agree on what her responsibilities are. Remind when it is not done. Give her the chores that if not done affects her. Laundry - when she runs out of undies she'll get the idea. Try it and be firm. The person who cares the most dies the work. Care as much as she does. 

Don't take her stuff to the dry cleaners. Bathroom - does she mind a dirty bathroom? You will have to tolerate it till she cleans. Kitchen leave dishes in washer but don't turn it in. Things like that. If you don't do something does she complain? 

What chores do your children have? Why can't they clean up after the cat? What do you think about getting some independent activities for yourself. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Catherine602 said:


> What chores do your children have? Why can't they clean up after the cat? _Posted via Mobile Device_


Good call.
The kids already have evening dish duty and now they have alternating weeks for the litter box.
Of course, when I announced this it was met with initial resistance. Then I clearly stated: “either somebody cleans the litter box on a regular basis or the cats go back to the shelter (where we got them).” They could tell I meant it.

Interestedly, my wife was silent through whole exchange


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I had the same problem with wife #2. She had time for everyone but me. I don't know where I ranked on her list of whose important. I know our daughter was first as she was on mine too but I didn't even crack the top 5. 

I opened my mouth and let it be known that I wasn't happy and it continued to fall on deaf ears. 

Finally she told me she was going with some girlfriends for 5 days on vacation. Not asked or lets talk about it but said that she was going so it was final and that's when I said enough and told her before she goes on vacation, it would be a good idea to find another place to live so you have a home to come back to because she was no longer welcome where I lived. End of story. If I can't count for something in her life then I don't want to be part of her life and didn't want her a part of mine any longer.


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## Big Dude (Feb 24, 2013)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> She is in her 5th year of being back full time. She took 9 years off when the kids were born/young.
> Adding to her load she teaches a honors course which eliminates the discipline problems most teachers must put up with but is also much more time consuming. She is also head of NHS and volunteers to be a speech & debate judge & assistant (both my kids are on the team). Plus, her non-honors classes keep getting changed, so she has to start from scratch with new lesson plans, presentations, tests, etc.
> I do agree with you teaching is no cake career, especially at the high school level. I see other teachers’ cars in the parking lot super early and there late, but think her situation is still towards the overworked end of things.
> 
> ...


I did not realize from your original post that your wife teaches at the school that your children attend. In my opinion, this makes your wife's total immersion in her school life more understandable. Speech and debate? Ugh, that's like every Saturday (all day) from September to May where I'm from. But for your kids, having a parent at a speech meet is a rare privilege. Most parents of speech and debate kids never get to see their kids' achievements, unlike the parents of athletes.

My son attends the school where I work. When you consider all of the bad things that can happen to a kid in high school, it is priceless... PRICELESS...to know that I have informants everywhere (and for him to know that too!) and that he can take full advantage of activities, sports, etc. knowing I have his back for transportation and any other support. The result is that we leave the house at 6am and get home on a good day at 6 pm.

That said, I still find time to pay the bills, cook on weekends and breaks, do all of the "guy" stuff (lawn, repairs, etc.), and make time to be with my wife.


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## loveadvice (Dec 22, 2013)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> I’ve often thought to myself I would have no problem adjusting to being a bachelor other than it would be 3/4th less work.
> Your thoughts?


:iagree: 

I know it's not supposed to be funny, but your comment made me laugh because your statement rings true in my case. After I divorced my ex-husband, I did a lot less work than when I was married. 

What you are describing is a passionless marriage with two people living together as roommates. Boredom and monotony often takes the passion and the fun out of a relationship.

I think she puts all the focus on her work because she is avoiding spending time with you. Things between the two of you are probably boring, comfortable and unromantic. Am I right?

What I think you need to do is to do things with her to ignite the spark again. Have date nights, etc. Plan a mini-trip to somewhere with just the two of you. Have one of your relatives to take care of the kids.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Get the book "His Needs, Her Needs"....

Read it. Do the exercises in it and figure out how you want/need things to change. Then ask her to read it and to work on what the book says to work on. 

if she refuses, you have to let her know that there are serious issues in your relationship that make you wonder if going on is worth it. You need her engaged in your marriage/life ... not just in her job.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> Good call.
> The kids already have evening dish duty and now they have alternating weeks for the litter box.
> Of course, when I announced this it was met with initial resistance. Then I clearly stated: “either somebody cleans the litter box on a regular basis or the cats go back to the shelter (where we got them).” They could tell I meant it.
> 
> Interestedly, my wife was silent through whole exchange


K that's great! My kids are small but they do chores. I look at it this way, none of us are entitled. None of us have servants. We work together on fun projects and on chores. It's character building. 

How did you come to think of yourself as the family servant?? You probably don't think of it that way but you are denying your children an opportunity to mature into adults that know that they need to contribute. Not just take. 

Look at it this way if you wish. 

You are denying your wife the opportunity to live a balanced life. She is missing out on the joys of being an engaged parent. 

These students have parents but her kids have a distracted mother for 10 months out of the year. I bet her students parents dote on them. 

She is also missing out on a relationship with a loving wonderful man (you ). She might wake up when you are headed out of the door, let's hope not.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks.
After dinner she went back to the high school (its across the street) and worked until 10:30 organizing things for the big NHS ceremony that takes place on Monday. She'll work on this all weekend also. Came home and put together a breakfast casserole for the staff meeting tomorrow morning (I’ll get none of it), took a shower and is going to collapse in bed.
*sigh* another day in paradise.

I’m not high maintenance, but her lack of free time creates a lack of free time for me. Someone needs to fill in the gaps.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

It was good with the cats. But you are still feeding them.

Do you have a good sex life? Does that even matter to you or her?

You have enabled an unhealthy situation. Changing it means her life will undergo a major shift. It is not only the reduction of hours which is important, but the loss of autonomy. She has delegated her time nearly 100% to serve her priorities.

1) Community
She sees a greater good than her own interests.

2) Her professional obligation.

Can you compete with either of these?

Have you logged her time? 

Try asking her what she would do if she were offered the job of principal. 

Did you ever feel loved and appreciated by your wife?


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife's career and this set up grew up over time, becuase you allowed it. It's not really fair to suddenly become all indignant.


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## ReformedHubby (Jan 9, 2013)

john117 said:


> Could it be that the super work load is just a smokescreen to avoid you and the kids?


Interesting theory. I thought only men did this. Every place I have ever worked there were men that "worked late" all the time. They weren't in bars, and there wasn't another woman. They just sat alone at their desk surfing the web. They just didn't want to go home for whatever reason.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

My wife has been doing this except she works from home and stretches an 8-9 hour workday into 12-14 easily...


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> Thanks.
> After dinner she went back to the high school (its across the street) and worked until 10:30 organizing things for the big NHS ceremony that takes place on Monday. She'll work on this all weekend also. Came home and put together a breakfast casserole for the staff meeting tomorrow morning (I’ll get none of it), took a shower and is going to collapse in bed.
> *sigh* another day in paradise.
> 
> I’m not high maintenance, but her lack of free time creates a lack of free time for me. Someone needs to fill in the gaps.


 OK. Now it's time for you to have a sit down with your wife and fill her in on what's bothering you. Let her know that your tired of being put on the back burner all the time and she spends way too much time on everything else except her husband and family and the time has come for her to do some serious cutting back because it's affecting your marriage. 

In all honesty, she's not a mind reader and maybe to her she feels like she's doing nothing wrong because you haven't said anything. 

This can be discussed without raising your voice and fighting about it. Then after you say your piece, listen to what she has to say. If she gives you a hard time about it then you have to let her know that she has a choice and the choices are the family or her teaching career. After she answers you then you'll know where her priorities lie and then you will have your options but until you put the "Whoa Nellie on this, it's only going to get worse. 

No time like the present.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Actually, it’s really only me put on the back burner (and burdened with all things household). All her limited spare time is devoted to the kids. As stated with the thread title, I’m simply support staff to her.

Its not like she’s goofing off. Honestly, I don’t know how she keeps it up. She is a ball of tightly bound stress most of the time, so I tread lightly.

I do cling to the hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. My son is a senior and therefore won’t be around next year, so my domestic workload lightens by a fourth. My daughter is a sophomore, so in a couple more years we will be empty nesters and all the limited spare time she now devotes to the kids will hopefully be placed into this marriage.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

6301 said:


> If she gives you a hard time about it then you have to let her know that she has a choice and the choices are the family or her teaching career.


I would advise you not go this route if you wish to remain married. 

You said your wife stayed home for 9 years and has been back to work for only 5 years. She is hitting her stride, she feels good about what she's doing, gets a sense of accomplishment and self worth. She's feeling really good about herself right now. 

You said that you are her "support staff". Perhaps because you haven't said anything she feels you are supporting her, that you understand her drive and ambition at this time in her life. Maybe she thinks you are a loving, understanding, supportive husband not a resentful one. 

Everything you said here about your wife has been negative and resentful perhaps marriage counseling would be a safe environment to tell her how you feel.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> I do cling to the hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. My son is a senior and therefore won’t be around next year, so my domestic workload lightens by a fourth. My daughter is a sophomore, so in a couple more years we will be empty nesters and all the limited spare time she now devotes to the kids will hopefully be placed into this marriage.


Bad plan.

You have a first hand view of the role of a mother in a family..... Do you know what the role of a father/husband is?

Active fathering and husbanding is required... Not just the wait and see approach.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Ok I got it wrong, thank goodness. 

Your wife reminds me a bit of myself when I had a stressful full time position. My priorities were performing well at my job and taking care of my family. AKA, take care of kids and home. Where did my husband come in you ask? 

Well he had the same priorities right, so we were a team. I didn't do it on purpose. I had no idea that my husband felt disconnected and unloved. 

Your wife does not know how you feel. You may have told her but it's probably not registering the way you want. 

What I needed was a perspective outside of the two of us. I got it from reading and joining TAM. I needed to understand the unique way my husband thinks and feels as a man. 

No one teaches us about how male and female gender slants perception. 

Don't wait till your children are out of the house to work at this. Start now. 

The amount of work you are doing around the house is a emblematic of the amount that you do in your relationship. 

Btw the kids are old enough to be doing most of the work in the house and give Dad a break. Delegate delegate delegate.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

You probably figured this out but I'll mention it anyway. It would not have helped me to understand if my husband approached me accusingly. I would have defended my position. 

Somehow, you have to take this up with your wife in a way that assumes her intention is not to hurt you. I don't know how to tell you exactly what to say but I am sure other posters will. 

Her priorities hurt you both.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Active fathering and husbanding is required... Not just the wait and see approach.


Don’t get the impression that I’m not involved with my kids. On that account, my wife and I are on the same page. In fact, I’m leaving straight from work to watch my son’s tennis match and am looking forward to it. Saturday, I’m taking my daughter out to practice her driving (she has her temps). Then its on to the yard work, etc.


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## LifeIsAJourney (Jan 24, 2013)

Kahlil Gibran said:


> Actually, it’s really only me put on the back burner (and burdened with all things household). All her limited spare time is devoted to the kids. As stated with the thread title, I’m simply support staff to her.
> 
> Its not like she’s goofing off. Honestly, I don’t know how she keeps it up. She is a ball of tightly bound stress most of the time, so I tread lightly.
> 
> I do cling to the hope there is light at the end of the tunnel. My son is a senior and therefore won’t be around next year, so my domestic workload lightens by a fourth. My daughter is a sophomore, so in a couple more years we will be empty nesters and all the limited spare time she now devotes to the kids will hopefully be placed into this marriage.


But will you have anything in common with her once the nest is empty? 

You need to let her know how you feel and that there is a problem in your marriage. NOW. Be very clear. Disconnect is very difficult to recover from and it gets worse the longer you let it go.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Read Catherine's post.

Your wife is doing what she thinks is right. She is focusing on herself, her job, and her kids. She is not going to come and read TAM to figure out that the "marriage" is the basis for the greater good..... That it's the marriage that enable us to be good workers, good parents, have good children.... The marriage feeds these things, these things do not feed the marriage. And, thus the marriage itself has to be a top priority. A top focus... 

She will not discover these on her own. It is your job to guide everyone's beliefs and values with regard to marriage, family, work and the greater good of a team vs a bunch of people running after their own goals.

You see what a woman brings to the table in a marriage, what you are not seeing is what a man brings to the table. And this is not a knock on women. Everyone brings something, and all for good reason and value.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Your wife reminds me a bit of myself when I had a stressful full time position. My priorities were performing well at my job and taking care of my family. AKA, take care of kids and home. Where did my husband come in you ask?
> 
> Well he had the same priorities right, so we were a team. I didn't do it on purpose. I had no idea that my husband felt disconnected and unloved


I think it is interesting that you bring this up, Catherine. I had pretty much the opposite experience to you and KG.

I was a lonely, bored SAHM until our oldest was about 7. I just wasn't very good about getting out before that, I guess. Or the things I was involved in just were not satisfying enough. Or maybe it is just hard to be the mom of all little kids.

But when she turned 7, I was introduced to the world of children's activities, and did our life ever take off! The kids got into the activities and I got involved, too. All of a sudden we were never home. Dinner was often picked up at the supermarket or a restaurant before we crashed into bed.

But dh was not upset. He was very happy that we were all of a sudden very busy and I was happy and involved in life. He was thrilled to see the kids learning new skills.

All of this is to say that our spouses are indeed not mindreaders. If we don't have open communication, we are not going to know what each other feels.

KG, please talk openly, and as Catherine said, non-threateningly with your wife. She may be clueless.

Also, could you sell your house and move into a condo? That would eliminate yardwork. Just cutting back on what you feel needs to be done could lessen the stress in your life, and the resentment.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

coffee4me said:


> I would advise you not go this route if you wish to remain married.
> 
> You said your wife stayed home for 9 years and has been back to work for only 5 years. She is hitting her stride, she feels good about what she's doing, gets a sense of accomplishment and self worth. She's feeling really good about herself right now.
> 
> ...


 That was my mistake tripping over my words. My fault. I really didn't mean that she quit her job, just cut back on the extras. My bad.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jld said:


> I think it is interesting that you bring this up, Catherine. I had pretty much the opposite experience to you and KG.
> 
> I was a lonely, bored SAHM until our oldest was about 7. I just wasn't very good about getting out before that, I guess. Or the things I was involved in just were not satisfying enough. Or maybe it is just hard to be the mom of all little kids.
> 
> ...


My husband did not talk about unhappiness or complain verbally. He rarely talks about his feelings. His actions talk, and I have to decode what he is communicating. 

I didn't read him right during the bad years. I wish he could tell me but I accept that he is not that kind of person. He shows me but sometimes I don't get it. 

That's why my advice is to express things verbally. Men are very hard to read, in my experience.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> My husband did not talk about unhappiness or complain verbally. He rarely talks about his feelings. His actions talk, and I have to decode what he is communicating.
> 
> I didn't read him right during the bad years. I wish he could tell me but I accept that he is not that kind of person. He shows me but sometimes I don't get it.
> 
> That's why my advice is to express things verbally. Men are very hard to read, in my experience.


You are really patient, Catherine! 

How did you figure it out? Maybe you just know him so well, that you were just able to deduce it eventually?

Gosh, I complain that dh is not very emotional or communicative. But maybe I don't really have it that hard . . .


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

No mind reading skills needed to figure out one spouse is neglecting the other.

Just common sense.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Contrary to what you might think, your wife is *not* being a very good teacher.

She is being a busy fool, making more and more work for herself, when there are much more time management efficient methods that she could apply.

If she is not careful she'll burn herself out.

Talk with her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jld said:


> You are really patient, Catherine!
> 
> How did you figure it out? Maybe you just know him so well, that you were just able to deduce it eventually?
> 
> Gosh, I complain that dh is not very emotional or communicative. But maybe I don't really have it that hard . . .


Actually I didn't figure it out until I started reading. I knew something was wrong but not why. Practically all of my energy was consumed with our children. 

I didn't ignore him but he was definitely not anywhere near top priority. I thought he felt the same way. Taking care of children requires sacrifice. Less time for each other. 

My impression from friends and relatives in my social sphere was that it was normal.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

I think you are a much nicer wife than I am, Catherine. I would be annoyed with dh if I had to try to guess things with him. It's hard enough to do that with little ones!

Was there any book in particular that helped you figure him out?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Analyzing DH is no different than doing a toaster oven.

Define his baseline behaviors and responses, then learn the deltas (differences) of what he's doing when an uncommon event occurs.

Human behavior at the cognitive level is relatively simple, input, processing, output. If you know how DH behaved when he comes home and the home looks like the "after" picture in a war movie... Chances are he will react the same way. Keep digging down further and you will find for example he's upset with the older kids... Then he's upset because they did x y and x. 

Observe and classify is the game.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

I have a hypothesis about the cats. Your wife said nothing because she knew you were doing for more than your fair share. So, if she opened her mouth she thought she ought to take responsibility herself. But she did not want to. It is bad if she knows things are inequitable and yet she pours herself out helping others.

Some people sacrifice their family members for causes because they wrongly believe that person, spouse or child is equally committed to the cause. That is a notion that your wife may need time to absorb.

None of the other posters asked anything about your sex life. I guess that it is almost non-existent. Are you willing to wait until your children all move out to fix this?


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

jld said:


> I think you are a much nicer wife than I am, Catherine. I would be annoyed with dh if I had to try to guess things with him. It's hard enough to do that with little ones!
> 
> Was there any book in particular that helped you figure him out?


Thank you but you are probably projecting because you're nice. I am a pain in the azz actually. A lucky one. 

I came across them by accident. "For Women Only", "For Men Only", and "For Couples Only" By: Shaunti Feldhahn, Jeff Feldhahn

I was browsing in a bookstore and saw them. When I read them, I asked my husband about the things I read. He said most of it was true. He didn't tell me because he thought I knew. :scratchhead:

He is communicative but not about being hurt. He is not a pushover though, he takes no sh!t especially from me.


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## Sandfly (Dec 8, 2013)

john117 said:


> Analyzing DH is no different than doing a toaster oven.
> 
> Define his baseline behaviors and responses, then learn the deltas (differences) of what he's doing when an uncommon event occurs.
> 
> ...


Lol, he might get a bit suspicious about her following him around with a notebook and pen.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Analyzing DH is no different than doing a toaster oven.
> 
> Define his baseline behaviors and responses, then learn the deltas (differences) of what he's doing when an uncommon event occurs.
> 
> ...


Okay, well here is a situation for you. Maybe you can help.

I would like dh to be more affectionate with me outside of sex. I like affection then, too, and I think a big reason we have never been sexless is that sheesh, I will take affection any way I can get it, as I feel dh gives it so sparingly (unintentionally, but still).

I have told him this how many times, that I want more hugs than he thinks to give, and I know he is trying, but I still feel like I have to ask for them, and that makes me feel silly. And some of the **** tests I give are where I wait and see if he will give me a hug at a time when I think he should know, like if I am leaving for some reason.

I just would like more affection in general, or, for example, to be invited to sit on his lap. I will just go and plop down there, but he thinks nothing of pushing me off if he wants to go get a drink of water or something. Okay, I know that sounds kind of funny, but I have read posts of men who actually would love it if their wives would spontaneously sit on their laps, and I do this, and it is hardly noted!

The thing is, you can't make someone who is not naturally affectionate more affectionate. He just is not like that. And I am always chasing him like a puppy, giving affection. And I won't stop, because I need it like water or oxygen! 

So any ideas for getting him to be more affectionate? 

My friend told me to just be direct with him, and set boundaries, but I don't know if I can actually do that. I will tell him what she said, and I will ask him to read what you advise. I just feel like he should know these things already and do them spontaneously. We've only been together 21 years now. 

All this said, I know he loves me. And he has actually been more affectionate since I really got mad about it around Valentine's Day. I would just like even more, I guess.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Catherine602 said:


> Thank you but you are probably projecting because you're nice. I am a pain in the azz actually. A lucky one.
> 
> I came across them by accident. "For Women Only", "For Men Only", and "For Couples Only" By: Shaunti Feldhahn, Jeff Feldhahn
> 
> ...


I know I have seen at least one of those books. Maybe I will look again.

Dh just doesn't get upset very easily. Or if he does, he is over it very quickly. And he doesn't get rocked when I am upset. He told me he is just committed to me, and that you have to be very patient with women.

Well, Catherine, I don't think I am projecting. If your dh thinks you are a pita, let me tell you, he would totally divorce me!


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

jld said:


> Okay, well here is a situation for you. Maybe you can help.
> 
> .......
> So any ideas for getting him to be more affectionate?



Well, tough call. We Europeans are not exactly known for our married PDA 

It could be that in his culture or upbringing married PDA was not encouraged. I know the prevailing stereotypes for Mediterranean people and their romantic attitudes, but my trips there do not suggest they're very passionate - post wedding cake. A lot less than Americans, more formal. 

Maybe he's too serious while you're more playful. Happens to me too. Even during our good days my wife often exhibited PDA levels associated with turtles. 

You've lived in his country, what did you think of that? Did his family exhibit such displays or did they turtle out? I've been to many parties of my wife's friends and let me tell y'all they don't call it Frigidistan for nothing...

Specifically for you now... Explain to him you're the affectionate type. Maybe he thinks affection is reserved for special moments, not an ongoing activity. Straight show him. Tell him what it means to you, PowerPoint slides and all.

Find out what he perceives as normal levels of affection (SLA) and what you see as reasonable. Add the factor that often times he's unavailable due to travel.

Again I think he's too serious with his life. Nothing wrong with that - someone has to be serious to balance misfits like me  - but you blink and all of a sudden it's ten years later, many college bills later, and OMD (Oh Mon Dieu ) where has the time gone. At 50-55 you either get to act like the couple in the Cialis commercial who can't keep their hands off each other or like Mr. and Mrs. Frigidistan who eat dinner at the opposite ends of a long table...

As my design girl always says, look for the meaning behind every action. Show him what affection means to you, and why. Don't overdo it but make your case.

Also how's his affection with the kids?


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

At least you know your place
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> Well, tough call. We Europeans are not exactly known for our married PDA  It's not so much in public I am after, just at home really, just outside the bedroom.
> 
> It could be that in his culture or upbringing married PDA was not encouraged. I know the prevailing stereotypes for Mediterranean people and their romantic attitudes, but my trips there do not suggest they're very passionate - post wedding cake. A lot less than Americans, more formal. Yes, for sure dh is formal. Very polite Frenchman. And he is from Northern France.
> 
> ...


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

PDA in my book includes all non bedroom interaction, including the rest of the house. 

Let's think about the kids. Showing affection to the kids is mandatory, we embarrassed the he11 out of both girls dropping them off to the dorm... I take it he's not much of a helicopter parent either?

With boys maybe but with girls... My girls hug mom usually only after I remind them to :rofl: 

If you don't have the affection now doing the Cialis commercial in a decade may not be as simple. It's all about attitude and your view of affection and it's manifestations.

Take a cruise or three and you will quickly see the PDA couples in their 50's and 60's and beyond vs Mr. and Mrs. Grumpy Cat in stateroom 745. If you haven't lived for long periods of times around eldsters you're in for a surprise. Take a cruise. Actually with the kids - read instant riot  

I don't buy the part about culture, not completely at least. If affection is not important (as in my wife's case) then you might as well communicate via text message like I do. Some of it is culture but a lot is not. 

Lots of affection does not necessarily mean success either. I may have told you the story of my friend who went to France, worked there for a while, married a local French girl, came back to Boston with her, etc. I saw them several times when I worked in Boston for a few months and we went out several times together. They could not keep their hands off each other in public. Six months later she dumped him and went back to Paris saying that Boston was not intellectually challenging... 

If you're mentally up to it affection is inexpensive to give and priceless to get. Maybe we creative / liberal arts types see it differently than the engineer and science types (my younger girl has become as affectionate as her mom since she went to college :rofl so there may be a component there too. Also seriousness. Gawd, why take life seriously, it's not like they'll remember you the next time you come 'round 

Maybe get him to loosen up a bit and act like a teenager some... It's fun, it's healthy, and your older kids won't run for the tree house next time he wants to hug them


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

john117 said:


> PDA in my book includes all non bedroom interaction, including the rest of the house.
> 
> Let's think about the kids. Showing affection to the kids is mandatory, we embarrassed the he11 out of both girls dropping them off to the dorm... I take it he's not much of a helicopter parent either? No, definitely trusts the kids. It's not like he never hugs them. He did today before he left. But the kids are not affectionate, despite being held like crazy as babies and my being a very affectionate mother. Who can explain it? Dad's genes, maybe?
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot, john. I appreciate your time.

Dh just told me that yes, he is not affectionate enough with me, and that he needs to give me more hugs. Thanks for hitting the message home.


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## coffee4me (Feb 6, 2013)

I'm not naturally affectionate. Us naturally non affectionate people sure get a bad rap  

For the hugger it's easy they just go around and naturally hug on people. But if you are not like that and your partner is , you have to consciously go around thinking...

"ok , I need to remember to hug. Crap I left the house and didn't hug. Oh, was I supposed to hug?" Exhausting  

Some, I think is culture and upbringing and some is natural tendencies. 

I'm more a math and science type, as is my mother both non huggers. My brother and my son are more creative types both crush you with their constant bear hugs.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Lolol, coffee! Thanks for that post!

It must be nice not to _need_ affection. I really am a puppy with dh. And I don't think it will ever change. But he is going to work on being more affectionate, and really, has already improved from a few months ago. I just always want more! 

I can just hear your conversation going on in dh's head. Lol.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

re: public displays of affection
Culture is big part of this. My parents came from Asia and Europe. PDA zero for each other and zero for us kids.

Hand shakes from my father. My mother never hugged or kissed us that i can remember, though I am sure she must have. 

In middle age my parents began making demonstrative but very stiff PDA. Hugs. 

Swedes have adopted more kissing and hugging, but I have a feeling it is nothing natural to the former Lutheran, now atheistic crowd.

When I see young people in love who cannot keep their hand off each other I am envious.

Jld,

Your DH is from France? Do you speak French? Learn to ask him for hug in French?


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Yes, he is French. Yes, I have learned French from him and the kids. He almost always speaks English to me, though, even when I speak French to him. It's crazy, because he always speaks French to the kids.

When we met 21 years ago, his English was better than my French, so we took the habit of speaking English with each other. Sometimes in France, we will fall into speaking French with each other, but otherwise, like I said, English is his default with me.

Hugs just really are not part of the culture there. If I were a really nice person, I would just accept whatever he felt like doing, and not ask for more. But I am always asking for more affection, however mechanically given (your word, stiff, is a good description). I think it is just a deep need in me.


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## Kahlil Gibran (Jan 27, 2014)

LongWalk said:


> I have a hypothesis about the cats. Your wife said nothing because she knew you were doing for more than your fair share. So, if she opened her mouth she thought she ought to take responsibility herself. But she did not want to. It is bad if she knows things are inequitable and yet she pours herself out helping others.
> 
> Some people sacrifice their family members for causes because they wrongly believe that person, spouse or child is equally committed to the cause. That is a notion that your wife may need time to absorb.
> 
> None of the other posters asked anything about your sex life. I guess that it is almost non-existent. Are you willing to wait until your children all move out to fix this?


You are spot-on in regards to all 3 assumptions. 
This is made more difficult by the fact that she and her family have zero tolerance to personal criticism. If someone points out something to she, her brother, or her Mom their only reaction (always) is to immediately lash back. Self-reflection is never an option.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

She is defensive, huh?

How about giving her lots of words of affirmation instead?


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## kokonatsu (Feb 22, 2013)

I've come across this in my marriage too.. husband isn't as affectionate as I'd like him to be.. we've talked about it, I told him how important it is for me, and he's made an effort to be more affectionate with me. 

but those days where he's not so affectionate with me, I just go up to him and take a hug, and he never pushes me away. if I want to cuddle with him in bed, i'll make the move. even though I'd die from happiness if he initiated it, i just have to remember that he doesn't think the same way as I do. but sometimes i wait anyway, and he does come and give me affection, and it makes me so happy. 

it definitely takes understanding from both parties: for the non-affectionate one to give that to their spouse, and for the affectionate one to understand that their spouse doesn't automatically work that way, and give them some slack.


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## ScarletBegonias (Jun 26, 2012)

coffee4me said:


> I'm not naturally affectionate. Us naturally non affectionate people sure get a bad rap
> 
> For the hugger it's easy they just go around and naturally hug on people. But if you are not like that and your partner is , you have to consciously go around thinking...
> 
> "ok , I need to remember to hug. Crap I left the house and didn't hug. Oh, was I supposed to hug?" Exhausting


That's me  DH is naturally affectionate. I do think affection can be a learned behavior too bc the more I'm around him the more affectionate I become without having to try so hard to remember "hug this person" "give this person encouraging pat on back."


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## neglected42 (Aug 11, 2014)

I really think it is important you sit down and talk to her, without getting angry. Before you do this, you have to try and see things from her perspective. 

She gave up her career for nine years to raise your children. I take it she was not neglecting you nor the household duties during this time. So the issues began with the full time job.

As a high school teacher, I can understand where she has become exhausted and neglectful. If she went back to work full time five years ago, it is like she is a new teacher. Except most new teachers do not also have a family to take care of.

Curriculum changes and she had to start over from scratch. Technology has been introduced and now power points with embedded video's are the expectation, along with differentiated learning, attending to all the different learning disabilities and mental health issues. Chalk and talk is GONE. The expectation is that you are going to have engaging lessons, with activities every class, every day.

So, after school is finished for the day, your wife has to create three 1.5 hour lessons that are engaging for the next day. She has probably forgotten a lot of the content, so has to relearn a lot of it. You have to be totally knowledgeable, and totally prepared before you head into a classroom. You cannot stand in front of 30 teenagers without a good lesson and good knowledge and expect to have their respect nor their cooperation. You will get eaten ALIVE!!!
If the administration keeps giving her new courses every semester, she has this stress to deal with every day. This is why she is a stress ball!

The volunteer work is also an expectation. If she does not do it, the administrators will take away her honours courses and give her the really tough behaviour classes. Trust me, the honours courses are a large workload, but they are heaven on earth compared to the behaviour issues. Those classes cause people mental breakdowns. You don't want her to go down that path. Remember, every sociopath, psychopath, woman hater, abuser, etc, etc, goes to school. Teachers have to deal with these teenagers, and we have very few consequences to keep their behaviours in check. They can make your job an absolute nightmare!

Here are some suggestions. Is there any possibility that you could afford for her to work part time. (Two out of three classes to prep for certainly would help lighten the load). If not, could you afford a housekeeper, even just once every other week? 

She has to volunteer, trust me, administrators have all the power, and you have to stay on their good side. I run my clubs at lunch. I also provide my extra help and tutoring at lunch. (This is also something that is expected, again, if you want to get the good classes you have to provide the students with help. You have to get results. Parents of academic kids want RESULTS). 

Would she be willing to do these things at lunch? Of course, you give up your lunch every day, shoveling in food between talking. You don't have to give up time after school though, and she could get home and cook dinner.

Try to remember, this will get better. Eventually she will have taught everything, so the administration won't be able to throw new stuff at her. Things will settle down. Teaching is a very rewarding job, but the work load can be overwhelming. Your wife gave up the mental stimulation of her job for nine years, and now she is enjoying the challenge, but is also treading water. Talk to her, and work with her to lighten the load. 

If you want some attention, perhaps you can plan some outings. Ask when is the best time, and try and get her to commit. I think some understanding and good communication will go a long way here.


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Zombie thread. This is a very old thread that needs to rest in peace.


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