# Husband does not like me moving his belongings



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

My husband and I have been together for 5 years, married for 1. I moved into his house when we married and the core reason for unhappiness in our marriage is due to the fact we are vastly different when it comes to organization. My husband is 52 years old and his adoptive parents (both now deceased) were in their 40's when they adopted him. They held on to every nail, scrap of paper, peice of food they could hold onto. As a result, my husband has hoarding tendencies. 

When his adoptive mom died in January he took 2 trailers full of cars and car parts from her house and brought them back to our house. We live out in the country and have a couple acres. He already had cars in the garage, cars in a storage garage he built, cars out back and now we have cars in the driveway and on our lawn (as well as car parts strewn about). He says he has no other place to put them (he also has two storage units filled with cars and other assorted junk). I feel like I am drowning. My husband also does not open his mail on a regular basis- it all piles up. I throw junk mail away discreetly the best I can but he roots through the garbage almost every day to see what he can save. I accidently threw away a bill once (that had been sitting on the island for weeks) and he has reminded me of the fact I "have cost the family money" (10$ late fee) every day for the past couple months. 

Our big blow up came three weeks ago. I threw chicken bones away that he had left on the counter for several days. He said he was saving them to give to the dog. He lost his sh!t and said he was tired of me throwing things away. He will not let me put away his laundered clothes. He wants me to just leave them on the dresser (he refuses though to fold them and put them away). He says if I put them away again he will throw them out onto the lawn. 

Anyways, three weeks ago he got so angry I threw away the chicken bones that he grabbed a shovel and smashed the drivers side window of my car "to teach me a lesson". He has never hit me or threatened to hurt me. I called the police and the officer said that since I wasn't in the car, and we are married my property is considered his property so there's no report to file and no charges to press. He's just smashing his own things- which isn't illegal. 

We attended counseling last week and the counselor told my husband that he isn't a bachelor anymore- he needs to place his wife ahead of car parts and material items. He suggested we start with cleaning out the house first and then work on the outside- specifically to clean out the front entry way and decide what to donate or keep. DH agreed but I'm overwhelmed and exhausted. The house is falling apart and he sees no problem with it. He doesn't want to find a new house because "it won't have enough storage or space for my cars". He is angry that I have "destroyed his system" regarding where he puts things. Does anyone who has a hoarding spouse have any tips?


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

*Throw my clothes out, not his

He seems to have the mentality that since I have messed with "his items" he can destroy mine.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

My first piece of advice here would be to find a real therapist...and I get very testy around this, so bear with me....unless you have some contrite adolescent lunch room issue, a "Counselor" won't do, they just lack the training and the experience to fully understand the complexity of most of the issues brought before them. Yes, it will cost you more, but you can look to save money or you can save your marriage and yourself. 

And you know your "Counselor" won't be effective b/c it's somewhere on the naive to absurd continuum of human behavior to believe that he'll listen to him/her when he hasn't listened to you.

What needs to happen is a carrot and stick approach..in that order....to first understand what his hoarding means and where it comes from and why it is important to him..what maintains it...and then an approach that lets him unburden himself of that need. Telling him to just stop doing it is about as effective as throwing out the chicken bones or smashing your car window.

You married someone with some fairly serious issues that should be treated as such. If you go in there like gang busters, he's likely to exhibit additional out of control behavior. By finding someone who understands this as such, you're more likely to resolve what seems to be a rather significant set of issues that prevents him from letting go. Otherwise, what he'd likely let go of is you.

Get a good doc here.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

My solution to his hoarding and other bad behaviors would be to move out. Seriously. Just so I could live in a clean environment that I am not ashamed to invite friends and family to visit. Then I'd tell him he has 2 choices. 1. He can get into therapy and do the work to correct his bad behavior and hoarding or 2. He can be a single man, free to wallow in his filth.


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Hoarders are very very attached to their belongings. It doesn't matter if everyone else thinks it's garbage, each plastic bag or old newspaper can have a memory attached to it, or a significance that no one else can see. 

It literally destroys hoarders to have to let go of their stuff, and so yes, you messing with your husband's things very likely makes him feel like he should be able to mess with yours. Or just desperate and unhappy, and wanting to lash out.

Hoarding is treatable, but it is quite difficult, and requires someone with expertise in this area. Simply throwing out their stuff will often just cause them to redouble their collecting habits. You may be able to get permission to get rid of some things, but don't be surprised if he fights tooth and nail for the smallest and most useless items. 

Please seek professional help with this, and do not feel bad that you aren't able to cope. Not many people are equipped to handle this issue. And please tell him that chicken bones are very dangerous for dogs! 

I feel for you. Good luck!!!


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Well, since cooked chick bones are potentially deadly to dogs (sharp edges and if they swallow them they could internally bleed out) you did right with the dogs.

Now, with the anger to smash your window, you need to get out. One day he will smash you. 

Forget the therapist. Your life is potentially at stake here. We will know something happened to you when you stop posting here. 

Good luck.



Texas-Toast said:


> Anyways, three weeks ago he got so angry I threw away the chicken bones that he grabbed a shovel and smashed the drivers side window of my car "to teach me a lesson". He has never hit me or threatened to hurt me* YET*


----------



## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

He's got more than hoarding issues. Frankly, he sounds very unstable. And potentially dangerous. Not a good place for you to be.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

He's old enough to know that you never give any bone to a dog. If you think it's bad now after 1 year, you ain't seen nothing yet. Leave for your own sanity.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Texas-Toast said:


> My husband and I have been together for 5 years, married for 1. I moved into his house when we married and the core reason for unhappiness in our marriage is due to the fact we are vastly different when it comes to organization. My husband is 52 years old and his adoptive parents (both now deceased) were in their 40's when they adopted him. They held on to every nail, scrap of paper, peice of food they could hold onto. As a result, my husband has hoarding tendencies.
> 
> When his adoptive mom died in January he took 2 trailers full of cars and car parts from her house and brought them back to our house. We live out in the country and have a couple acres. He already had cars in the garage, cars in a storage garage he built, cars out back and now we have cars in the driveway and on our lawn (as well as car parts strewn about). He says he has no other place to put them (he also has two storage units filled with cars and other assorted junk). I feel like I am drowning. My husband also does not open his mail on a regular basis- it all piles up. I throw junk mail away discreetly the best I can but he roots through the garbage almost every day to see what he can save. I accidently threw away a bill once (that had been sitting on the island for weeks) and he has reminded me of the fact I "have cost the family money" (10$ late fee) every day for the past couple months.
> 
> ...


He wants to risk his dog's health by giving him bones that are days old? Anyway, is he really stupid enough to give a dog chicken bones that can easily splinter and cut its insides?

Your husband's hoarding obsession has become a mental illness. For which he needs treatment.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unicus said:


> My first piece of advice here would be to find a real therapist...and I get very testy around this, so bear with me....unless you have some contrite adolescent lunch room issue, a "Counselor" won't do, they just lack the training and the experience to fully understand the complexity of most of the issues brought before them. Yes, it will cost you more, but you can look to save money or you can save your marriage and yourself.
> 
> And you know your "Counselor" won't be effective b/c it's somewhere on the naive to absurd continuum of human behavior to believe that he'll listen to him/her when he hasn't listened to you.
> 
> ...


Unless the counsellor is a fully qualified and licenced psychologist.


----------



## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Hoarding is not a trait he would have been able to hide from you in the 4 years prior to marriage. You married him knowing he had this problem.

You both need therapy.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> Unless the counsellor is a fully qualified and licenced psychologist.


Matt, here in the Colonies, Psychologist is a protected term governed by strict state licensure requirements. "Counselor" isn't, so no psychologist would refer to himself professionally as a "Counselor".


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

@mrsholland 

Let's keep the advice positive, okay? The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died.


----------



## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

Texas-Toast said:


> @mrsholland
> 
> Let's keep the advice positive, okay? The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died.


No I will say what I think but thanks for that.

Someone does not change this dramatically in 5 years. If on the off chance he has then get yourself to therapy to work out why you would stay with such a man.


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

Texas-Toast said:


> @mrsholland
> 
> Let's keep the advice positive, okay? The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died.


OK, so his hoarding is now part of his grieving process.

Hun, really...get a good doctor here for him. This is fairly serious.


----------



## MrsHolland (Jun 18, 2016)

He was already hoarding car parts before the mum died the OP said. Two storage units filled with car parts and other junk. This is not a new problem. Add to that the violence then she would do well to get out ASAP.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Unicus said:


> Matt, here in the Colonies, Psychologist is a protected term governed by strict state licensure requirements. "Counselor" isn't, so no psychologist would refer to himself professionally as a "Counselor".


Interesting. In the UK the term psychologist is equally strictly controlled, but many psychologists refer to themselves as a counsellor.

However there are those of us with lesser qualifications that could describe ourselves as counsellors. However I don't do this, as I do not practice counselling professionally and never have done.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

I thought the term "counselor" and "psychologist" we're interchangable. I'm sorry for the confusion. He has a medical degree.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

MattMatt said:


> Unless the counsellor is a fully qualified and licenced psychologist.





Unicus said:


> Matt, here in the Colonies, Psychologist is a protected term governed by strict state licensure requirements. "Counselor" isn't, so no psychologist would refer to himself professionally as a "Counselor".


Actually Matt is correct. He was referring to lower case "counsellor", the function, not the title. In the "Colonies" there are many types of psychologists, including clinical and *counselling *psychologists among others.

All that aside, OP's H needs a psychiatrist more than a counselling psychologist, IMO, due to the violent outburst(s). If you do not know the difference, google it.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Texas-Toast said:


> I thought the term "counselor" and "psychologist" we're interchangable. I'm sorry for the confusion. He has a medical degree.


From Wiki " A psychiatrist is a physician who specializes in psychiatry, which is to say in the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders. Psychiatrists are medical doctors, unlike psychologists, and must evaluate patients to determine whether their symptoms are the result of a physical illness, a combination of physical and mental, or a strictly psychiatric one. "

A psycholoogist might have a doctorate degree, in which case they can and often do call themselves "Doctor" but they are not a Medical Doctor, nor will they have M.D. after their name. They psychiatrist sits at the top, often the most expensive, and often see a patient for 15-30 minutes per session vs a psychologist who often sees the patient for a longer period of time. The key difference, besides level and year of training, is that the psychiatrist can prescript medication while a psychologist cannot. 

IMO because of the violent outburst, he may need medication. Before he hurts you. You describe this actions as increasing in intensity. "The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died."

What you feel as an attack on you and your H is really our true concern for your physical safety. IMO you are discounting the attack as being "territorial". It was bad enough for you to call the police. What will happen next if you even mistakenly throw out something of his or he even THINKS you threw out something of his?


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have read that the reason that people hoard is that they feel that they have lost so much in life, that they hang on to everything for fear of experiencing more pain from loss. His mother died recently. That’s a huge loss. It might be an even bigger loss because he already lost one mother (and father) in his life when they gave him up for adoption. Now the loss of the mother who raised him could be the straw that makes him break.

But the bottom line here is that he has gone violent. Him breaking your car window to teach you a lesson is a threat to YOU. The message is that this time it was your window. Next time it might be the shovel to your head.

Now he’s stepped up the abuse to domestic violence. 

His refusal to allow you to make his house your home, is a very bad sign. It’s a form of emotional abuse. He’s basically telling you that you are nobody and have no place in his life. It’s his life, his house. You are an intruder. Hence he gets angry when you try to do things that make it your home too.

Abuse always escalates. This is not going to get better. It’s going to get worse.

You need to take care of yourself. That means that you need to move out. If he wants you in his life, he can then get some physiatrist help. And if he does, it will take him years to fix whatever is going on with him. …. Years that you cannot be living with him.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

What would it have taken for you follow up his violent act by getting your stuff and driving away in your damaged car without saying a word? What type of person would stick around after witnessing an out of control, violent 52 year old man? My first instinct would have been to get out of harms way. 

Far from him needing to teach you a lesson you should teach him. There are heavy consequences for his treatment of you. He id deprived of your presence until he gets help and proves he is safe and deserves a companion. 

No change means no you. Why did you not react that way? The fact that you remain in the same house with a dangerous man says something about what you will tolerate and what you feel about yourself. People treat you the way you allow them. You need to ask yourself why this treatment is good enough for you. 

You gave him permission to be physically violent. The verbal threats did not trigger self-protective instincts and outrage your sense of self respect. He now has permission to make threats with no consequences and to treat you with a lack of respect. 

If you insist upon continuing to expose yourself to this toxicity, be careful and vigilant. This is more serious than you seem to realize. What he is doing now will escalate in time especially if you interfere with his rituals. He is 52, how old are you? 

If you want to stay safe, don't try to change him. You may have to accept life with a hoarder with violent tendencies if you want to stay married to him. You'll need to leave no footprint of your presence in his home so you don't excite his anger and violent outburst. 

What is the rest of your relationship like? Is he otherwise loving, communicative and supportive? Is he a source of friendship and safety? I assume you married because you cared about each other. Do you love him and do you feel loved? 

Sadly, from your description, he does not sound like he has much going for him. What do you think?


----------



## DDudley14 (Apr 12, 2016)

Unicus said:


> OK, so his hoarding is now part of his grieving process.
> 
> Hun, really...get a good doctor here for him. This is fairly serious.


Sounds like his mother's death has sent him into a mental spiral. Which is why the hoarding and anger has gotten worse. 

I have a recommendation for you that I haven't seen anyone suggest yet. 

Have you seen "Hoarders" by A&E channel? 

If not, I suggest you watch it, it will give you insight into the mental illness that is hoarding. Your husband may not be as bad as some you see on this show, but if he doesn't get help NOW, this could be you and him in just a few short years. 

I second getting him to a psychologist and not just a counselor. You will see on the show that they always have a psychologist on to help the hoarder sort through their feelings. The psychologist usually specializes in hoarding tendencies and disorders. 

Your husband needs specialiced care. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Toast,

I know this is hard on you to read all this. It will help if you tell us your age (I am guessing 35-40) and what were you doing five years about before you met H? Were you in a previous relationship, possibly abusive? 

Are you financially able to support yourself?


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Texas-Toast said:


> @mrsholland
> 
> Let's keep the advice positive, okay? The hoarding has gotten worse as time went on. He was never this "territorial" about it until his mother died.


This is very typical of hoarders. Significant loss exacerbates symptoms. They can be quite functional, maybe a bit of a pack rat, but the loss brings on the full blown syndrome. It is as though they are controlling their feelings by investing them in material objects that they collect.

Very difficult problem!


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

DDudley14 said:


> Sounds like his mother's death has sent him into a mental spiral. Which is why the hoarding and anger has gotten worse.
> 
> I have a recommendation for you that I haven't seen anyone suggest yet.
> 
> ...


It's an interesting show, but from what I've been told, is actually a disaster in terms of how best to deal with the problem. The shock and awe tactics that they use often end up making the symptoms even worse than before because the person feels so violated. They stage a happy ending for the reality tv show, but it is just tv, and it doesn't care about the actual people involved.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

wild jade said:


> This is very typical of hoarders. Significant loss exacerbates symptoms. They can be quite functional, maybe a bit of a pack rat, but the loss brings on the full blown syndrome. It is as though they are controlling their feelings by investing them in material objects that they collect.


Do you have a first hand experiences with hoarders that you can share with OP? To help her?


----------



## DDudley14 (Apr 12, 2016)

wild jade said:


> It's an interesting show, but from what I've been told, is actually a disaster in terms of how best to deal with the problem. The shock and awe tactics that they use often end up making the symptoms even worse than before because the person feels so violated. They stage a happy ending for the reality tv show, but it is just tv, and it doesn't care about the actual people involved.


We agree about the tactics hoarders uses. I don't like the tactics as they only exacerbate the problem. I was only recommending the show as a way of getting the op to see just how far down the rabbit hole this disorder can take her and her husband if he doesn't get help. 

She has already mentioned his anger getting out of hand, I'm hoping the show will help her understand that this kind of reaction isn't atypical of hoarding disorders and she needs to get him to get help or she needs to get a plan together to protect herself. 

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


----------



## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

Have you ever watched that show about hoarding? I'm not sure if it's still on or not. Hoarding is a mental illness. If he's not willing to accept that he has a problem and get help for it, then the problem is just going to continue to get worse. The incident with him smashing your window is pretty disturbing. That's violence that could also escalate.


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

DDudley14 said:


> We agree about the tactics hoarders uses. I don't like the tactics as they only exacerbate the problem. I was only recommending the show as a way of getting the op to see just how far down the rabbit hole this disorder can take her and her husband if he doesn't get help.
> 
> She has already mentioned his anger getting out of hand, I'm hoping the show will help her understand that this kind of reaction isn't atypical of hoarding disorders and she needs to get him to get help or she needs to get a plan together to protect herself.


I appreciate that. I just wanted to point out that the show may give some false impressions about how easy it is to fix the problem.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

My mother became a horder as she got older. It was really bad.

So once a year my siblings and I (there are 8 of us), would deal with it. One of us would take her to stay with them for a few days. The rest of us would go through her house and garage and remove all the junk.

The first couple of times we did that, she threw a fit… I mean we threw out her “Mrs. Butterworth” bottles and old magazines and surely they were worth a lot. LOL. But after that she would get a bit upset but love her clean and organized house.

I doubt you can do that with your husband. I get it. And I think he’s very capable of being a violent man and hurting you. As I said earlier, he’s already made a very clear threat on your life because you threw out old, stinky chicken bones.

And because of the level of the violent attack on your car window, you need to leave him. I’m sure that right now you resist this idea. For this reason, YOU need to get into counseling on your own because you need to learn why you would stay in this kind of situation. And then you need to work to fix yourself.

Keep in mind that when one spouse has some form of mental illness (your husband does hording, emotional abuser and violence), if the other spouse stays they too have a mental health issue. Sometimes they start out like that. Sometimes a spouse develops a mental health issue in response to the other spouse. But the fact that you are still there, putting up with him not allowing you to make your place in your home, and putting up with his abuse… all the while trying to figure out what you can do to fix him means that you have and/or are developing unhealthy issues.

You would benefit from reading the book “Co-Dependent No More”. His problems are his. They are not yours to fix. You cannot fix another person.


----------



## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

I cannot believe people are recommending tv as a source of mental health wisdom.


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Do you have a first hand experiences with hoarders that you can share with OP? To help her?


I'm not sure what I can say that I haven't already said.

I haven't actually had to live with a hoarder, but yes, I do have some experience.

Honestly, I don't know how to fix the problem. I have a friend who lives in her mountain of crud, and watches the mice as they leap freely around the house. I've tried to help her, but she won't let me. Or anyone.


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

I am in my late 20's. No I have never been abused before. Our relationship is pretty decent besides this issue. He is kind and loving, albeit somewhat stubborn.


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

I did leave for several days after calling the police. I stayed with SIL at her house. She told me to stay as long as I want to. Now we are back to "normal" but I still feel overwhelmed with the clutter and his refusal to clean but insist I don't pick up after him.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wild jade said:


> I appreciate that. I just wanted to point out that the show may give some false impressions about how easy it is to fix the problem.


The show does not provide any help for how to fix a person's emotional attachment to junk, and hence their mental health issue.

What it does do it give strategies on how to get rid of the excessive junk that the hoarder has collected and get the house back to a livable environment. The job to getting rid of and organizing the junk can be so daunting that a lot of people just give up.

It also addresses some of how to make deals with the hoarder that can make them willingly giving up some significant portion of the junk palatable.

I've seen them negotiate with the hoarder.... sell valuable junk and we can get you new living room furniture to replace your old, torn, dirty stuff. Make the hoarder crave new living room furniture and it can break the attachment to some of the junk. We did these things with my mom.

The show also recognizes that some people just will not give up some junk, so they demonstrated ways to store what could not be given up so that it was not in piles all over the house. We did this with my mom too. She would not give up all her craft stuff even after she could no longer do a lot of it. So we put it all in those big plastic tubs you get at Walmart. We labeled it. And there it sat, very neatly in the garage for a few years until she passed. But at least it was not all over her house. 

There is addressing the mental issues.

And then there is addressing the junk.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Texas-Toast said:


> I did leave for several days after calling the police. I stayed with SIL at her house. She told me to stay as long as I want to. Now we are back to "normal" but I still feel overwhelmed with the clutter and his refusal to clean but insist I don't pick up after him.


Do you have any place in the house and on the property that is 'your space'? 

If you are going to stay with him, then maybe you can negotiate with him for a room of our own. How big is the property and how much money do the two of you have? (I'm not asking for read figures.) It sounds like a pretty big lot. Could you get your own house on the property?


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

Come to think of it, I also know someone who is a social worker who deals with hoarders fairly regularly, and in some cities there are organizations that can help. OP, you should do some research in your area to see if there are any services available. They may have some ideas for you.


----------



## wild jade (Jun 21, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> There is addressing the mental issues.
> 
> And then there is addressing the junk.


I tried some of these tactics with my friend, and she just wasn't having it. Even the idea of putting the piles of junk mail into a drawer somewhere so it wouldn't be spilling all over the place was too much for her. She needed to see it to be reminded that she needed to deal with it, which of course she never does.


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

wild jade said:


> I tried some of these tactics with my friend, and she just wasn't having it. Even the idea of putting the piles of junk mail into a drawer somewhere so it wouldn't be spilling all over the place was too much for her. She needed to see it to be reminded that she needed to deal with it, which of course she never does.


Hoarders can be very hard to deal with.

With my mother, we just sort of stuck your nose into her home and gave her no choice. But with a friend, it's not really that easy to do it.

I don't know what you do in this case, Maybe a box that she can see?


----------



## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

Texas-Toast said:


> I am in my late 20's. No I have never been abused before. Our relationship is pretty decent besides this issue. He is kind and loving, albeit somewhat stubborn.


You're married to a man twice your age with violent tendencies, a hoarder who won't let you touch anything in HIS house - even disgusting old chicken bones attracting bugs, and amidst a car junk yard.

Is this what you want for your life? This won't get any better and is likely to get worse, so if this is not what you want for the next 20-30 years of your life, please do something now to leave. He won't change. You'd be lucky to get him to a psychiatrist, but he likely doesn't want to change and so he won't. 

You're young - do you want kids? Is this the kind of home and father you'd want for a baby?


----------



## Unicus (Jun 2, 2016)

blueinbr said:


> Actually Matt is correct. He was referring to lower case "counsellor", the function, not the title. In the "Colonies" there are many types of psychologists, including clinical and *counselling *psychologists among others.
> 
> All that aside, OP's H needs a psychiatrist more than a counselling psychologist, IMO, due to the violent outburst(s). If you do not know the difference, google it.


There's a lot of misinformation which provides both distraction and confusion to someone who's in crisis. A counselling psychologist isn't a "Counselor". Someone having an MD doesn't necessarily mean they are "better" or at the "Tip" of something. What's required here is immediate intervention by someone who can get a "Handle" on this, someone with advanced credentials who can assess this and offer recommendations based on their (hopefully) extensive training. Psychologist, psychiatrist...frankly, either can provide the first step. What's likely required is both meds and therapy..for both of them. Choose which specialty you want to start with first and make an appt.

The H's hoarding behaviors are likely symptoms of a much deeper mental illness. It's unwise to attempt to address the symptoms separate from the cause,...the OP tried that which resulted in a violent episode.

Get your husband to a "doctor" of your choice, they'll know what to do regardless of their particular specialization.


----------



## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am more concerned about his displays of violence. Clearly the man has serious issues and zero regard for the well being of his wife, between the violent outburst and the hoarding. TT, why in the world do you wish to stay in this? There does not seem to be enough redeeming qualities to justify staying, and abuse tends to escalate. He may be hitting YOU next time instead of the car!


----------



## IamSomebody (Nov 21, 2014)

Take the dog and run as fast and as far as you can. The man you married is a danger to you both.

I don't know what possessed you to marry a man twice your age with these tendencies but he will never get better. Have you two discussed having children or did you just assume he would want them now that you two are married? He smashes you car window, threatens to throw out your clothes and plans on seriously harming the dog with days old chicken bones. Can you imagine what he would do to a child who "upset his routine?"

This man is seriously mentally ill. Did you ever wonder why, at his age, he had never married before? It's not like his career prevented it.

From the sounds of it, your husband does not see you as his wife, as his full partner. He sounds like he is grieving his real wife, his mommy dearest. You are just a booty call.

BTW, that cop was very, very wrong. If you owned that car before marriage, it is *NOT* your husband's car. Even if you purchased it after marriage, it still does *NOT* give him the "right" to destroy your property. Using that cop's "logic" you could trash/remove every item of your husband's because it was also yours. But I doubt the cops would see it that way.

Take the dog and run like the citizens of Tokyo fleeing Godzilla.

IamSomebody


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

You refer to him as DH, Dear Husband? Sounds like a miserable way to live. You seriously need a bunch of strangers on the Internet to tell you to stay in this marriage? I think you need IC just as much as him.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You don't want to live having to look at chicken bones sitting on your counter for God only knows how long for the rest of your life. Leave and start over.


----------



## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

My friend,M,is a hoarder. So was her mother. M and I went round and round about her things. I remember when I finally got her to let us (friends and neighbors) clean her basement and we discovered it had flooded a while back. No one knew because the mound of clothes covering the floor was wall to wall and the bottom layers absorbed the water before the top layers got wet. We filled a dumpster from her basement alone. We also, over weeks, did her kitchen, dining room, and living room.

Her hoarding eventually overrode even her maternal instincts and she lost custody of her children due to the condition of the house and yard. Her sons went to her brother, who later legally adopted them after her rights were terminated, and her daughters went to her exH's.

Her kids are grown now. One daughter is in contact with her, one is in contact rarely, and her sons don't speak to her at all.

DO NOT HAVE A CHILD WITH THIS MAN.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Texas-Toast said:


> He will not let me put away his laundered clothes. He wants me to just leave them on the dresser (he refuses though to fold them and put them away). *He says if I put them away again he will throw them out onto the lawn. *


*raising hand* I married one, too. He's gone through the trash to see what I throw away. We moved a van full of stuff from our first house to our second house - 20 years ago - and never touched a single box. Then we moved them all to THIS house 12 years ago and never touched them. We have a three-car garage filled 10 feet high with his stuff. My mom offered on several occasions to pay for one of those dumpsters to be delivered, filled, and hauled away.

I've taken to going through the garage when I know he'll be gone for a few hours, and taking a few things here and there and throwing them in the trash can (and then covering them up so he'll never see them and pull them back out). I figure in another 10 years, I might be able to walk into the garage.

What my therapist told me was that nothing was going to change until I am willing to stand up to him about it. To make it clear that I will be walking if he doesn't start working with me on this. I'm too chicken to do it at this point, but the advice is valid.

My therapist said that this is a case of the 'weaker' person (the one less likely to be antagonistic) having to realize, acknowledge, and then STATE to the other person that THEIR needs are JUST as valid and important as the partner's.

For example, my husband piles paperwork everywhere. And then never touches it. She said I have the right to have a home that guests don't have to search to have a place to sit down. So I've started moving his stuff to one central place, that I don't care so much about (the formal dining room). He griped and I just shrugged and said 'this is my house, too, and I have the right to have a neat hour. If you're going to leave something on the coffee table, it's going to get moved. You can put stuff in the dining room and I'll leave it alone, unless it becomes unreasonable. Anywhere else, you're giving me permission to move it.'

I wanted to point out, though, that the above item in bold - these are the exact situations where you need to stand up for yourself. He 'threatened' to throw your clothes out on the lawn? That's a good one. LET HIM! You should have said "Go right ahead" and then left the room. You missed an opportunity there to start changing your dynamics. Every time he throws out something of yours, make a point of going to get it, putting it in a box, putting it in your car, and then taking it somewhere else. So he can plainly see that every time he pulls crap like that, you are one step closer to being out of his life.

I will also add that you need to tell him that if makes another display of anger like the window again, you WILL be moving out. Immediately.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

She corrected to say he was threatening to throw her clothes out on the lawn.

Since he doesn't want her moving them or touching them, why doesn't he do his own laundry?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> She corrected to say he was threatening to throw her clothes out on the lawn.
> 
> Since he doesn't want her moving them or touching them, why doesn't he do his own laundry?


Sorry, Blondi, I went back and corrected that after I went back. 

As for him doing his own laundry, that's not the problem. It's that he dumps it on the dresser in HER bedroom, and she's forced to live with it. 

I'm in my bedroom right now and DH's dresser is piled a foot high with paperwork. There's another two piles under the tv. And another pile under his dresser and another pile under his side table. But only because I've been too busy to start moving them.


----------



## imtamnew (May 13, 2013)

And my wife gets angry because I have a small corner inside the closet with some auto stuff.

Op.
Try the best friend test. Will you tolerate this if the hoarder was your best friend instead of a spouse. Will you live with such a bff.
If the answer is no... Then this person does not qualify to be your spouse.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

turnera2 said:


> Sorry, Blondi, I went back and corrected that after I went back.
> 
> As for him doing his own laundry, that's not the problem. It's that he dumps it on the dresser in HER bedroom, and she's forced to live with it.
> 
> I'm in my bedroom right now and DH's dresser is piled a foot high with paperwork. There's another two piles under the tv. And another pile under his dresser and another pile under his side table. But only because I've been too busy to start moving them.


Sigh. Your husband is such a procrastinator. Maybe he'll grow up before the house falls down around his ears or he dies.

BTW, all that crap stored in the garage and the piles of papers in the house are fire hazards. Doesn't he care?


----------



## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

Did his hoarding become worse when his mother passed away? What was the relationship he had with his mother? Were they too hoarders? My husband's mother would not let go of things. She saved magazines thinking that she had to read every article and when she had the time she thought she would do that so she had boxes of magazines, tubs of bobby pins and rubber bands, boxes of nice decorative napkins as well as napkins she saved from drive-in. When they retired and decided to sell their house instead of selling off things or going them away they put all this stuff in storage. Living with this as an example in his life my husband too cannot let go of things either, not to the point of saving old cars. However, I thew away 3 boxes of magazines my husband saved and he never let me live it down. He swore I threw away his high school diploma as he knew it was in one of those boxes. No apology once I found it and showed it to him. He was military and things would stay in boxes and never get unpacked and he wouldn't part with any of it. He has an idea that these things he has held onto will be worth something one day, and other things he has kept because they were gifts from his parents so he can't part with them.

I am clean and organized so all this unused stuff seems needless to haul around but I finally gave up and he wants to keep things in boxes for years, fine, that's where it stays.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Blondilocks said:


> Sigh. Your husband is such a procrastinator. Maybe he'll grow up before the house falls down around his ears or he dies.
> 
> BTW, all that crap stored in the garage and the piles of papers in the house are fire hazards. Doesn't he care?


I'm not 'allowed' to discuss it. Not without him blowing up at me out of shame. So I do what I can on my own.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

AVR1962 said:


> However, I thew away 3 boxes of magazines my husband saved and he never let me live it down. He swore I threw away his high school diploma as he knew it was in one of those boxes. No apology once I found it and showed it to him.


OMG, BTDT. My H's favorite saying is "Well, it was SITTING on that shelf right there for YEARS, so who knows where it is NOW..." - meaning HE kept it safe by keeping it somewhere for years, even though it was in my way, and that I moved it and lost it. IT meaning all the things he's lost over the years in this mess of a house and meaning I'm the source of all the problems. 

As a result of 36 years of this, I have become super-obsessed about organization. I keep asking for bookcases so I can TRY to get some manner of control over this mess, since he loses something at least once a month in it. And blames it on me.

OP, put a stop to it. Don't become like me.


----------



## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

turnera2 said:


> I'm not 'allowed' to discuss it. Not without him blowing up at me out of shame. So I do what I can on my own.


I feel for you. Hoarders do love to blame others rather ferociously if their stuff is moved, or "missing". Been there myself. I wish there was a way to cure that behavior, but it falls upon the hoarder to get in touch with reality and decide for themselves to dispose of the "junk" on their own. Other than that, there are always excuses.

In the hoarder's mind, everything is "useful" and need to be preserved. They don't see the mountains of junk accumulating. They will deal with it "later" (which never happens).

My sister is a hoarder. Everything has a purpose (in her mind). She can make crafts (which she never does), she can sell the "collectables" (which never happens), she can start a business with her "stuff" (which will never happen). Once (only once) did I attempt to organize her hoard - putting things together according to what they were. She got very angry with me, so I never touched her stuff again. I did this to free up some space in the main part of the house - so she could at least have guest visits. It didn't go well.

I feel for the OP and hope she realizes she is in danger because of his response to the hoarding. It doesn't get better unless and until HE does something about it.

It's all a trap for these people, and the victims (you and her) of a hoarder need to watch out for yourselves and keep yourselves safe. There is no quick cure. I wish there was.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Texas-Toast said:


> I am in my late 20's. No I have never been abused before. Our relationship is pretty decent besides this issue. He is kind and loving, albeit somewhat stubborn.


OP, This one is going to hurt me to ask, but why would a woman your age want/marry a man 20+ years older?

Are you willing to share a little about YOU before you met him? This might help us give more specific advice to you and your life, not just about H and the hoarding.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

survivorwife said:


> In the hoarder's mind, everything is "useful" and need to be preserved.


We have three boxes of just the copies of the receipts of the sales he made when he worked at a stereo store in the 70s. He was a sales god there, made a ton of money, I guess it makes him feel special to look at the boxes and remember those days. He hasn't opened them in 30 years. But he won't let me throw them away.

I think I'm going to start throwing away a few papers at a time until there are only two boxes worth, and if he asks, I'll just say 'you must be mistaken.' 

He won't let me sell all the cassettes we've recorded over the years, even though nobody has a machine to use them in anymore. He won't let me sell the Beta and VHS tapes we recorded over the years.

We have at least 200-300 pieces of electronics from the 25 years he spent working at a major electronics company and he bought one of everything. And we still have every printer we've ever bought, every computer, every everything. All I can say is that, if he dies before me, I'll make a hell of a lot of money selling all these antiques.

*sigh*


----------



## Texas-Toast (Feb 26, 2016)

Yes, as the years have passed and especially with his mother dying he has become worse in his hoarding. His go to excuse is that, "we are saving money by holding onto things. You are wasting money by throwing things away" and "we might need this someday. We can't throw it away." His dad held on to a ton of cars and car parts. Which he inherited. 

I don't see age as an issue. As long as the individuals involved are consenting adults, it's none of my business who marries who. We have a lot in common. I don't regret marrying a man older than me.

One poster previously really summarized the situation when her friend said she would "get around to it". He always has an excuse, saying he will move a car out back "later". But he's always busy. Meanwhile everything rusts in our driveway. I have to walk down the hill to get to my car, which is parked in the street.

Money is an issue. Two years ago I went back to school and obtained my degree, which I finished up in May. He was the sole provider. I accepted a job that starts in August. He has cleared out space in the closet for "my things" (yes, there are also car parts in the closet). He thinks I ask him to move things too quickly- it's too much change too fast. It's overwhelms him.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Honestly, this needs to be discussed in front of a therapist. So that both of you are content.


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

We have four cars. One is the 72 Nova he bought new. We took it apart in 2003, planning to put it back together so our DD25 could drive it when she turned 16. Still sitting on blocks in our driveway, all the pieces taking up 1/3 of the garage.
Another is the 2004 BMW we bought new. He refused to sell it because he said he needed it as a backup car if his broke down. Only, the car hasn't run since 2010, WON'T run anymore.

When he decided I had to get a new car two years ago, I made him promise to sell the 2004 car. He promised. And never did. 

The third is the 2009 BMW that used to be my car, but he's been driving since I got a new car. It's been slowly falling apart and he has a reason every time for not getting it fixed. 

I got laid off 14 months ago and, instead of him taking the time to fix HIS car, he just let it go and started driving MY car (no reason for me to have it since I didn't have a job anyway, right?). It was only a month ago that I had a fit and threatened to leave if he didn't do something, that he got his car running. Only now, it hasn't been inspected, which was due in March! He says he has to get this one person to help him get it inspected cos there's an issue, and he says he keeps calling the guy, and this or that happens. And then the brake lights came on, so he's stopped driving it again, and tells me that I can't drive it, that only he knows how to drive it right so that it doesn't mess up...

You can see how the disordered mind works, to do ANYTHING to keep from having to deal with what needs done. It is SO exasperating. 

My IC told me to take care of the things myself, to give him warning that I will do it if he won't. I just don't have the nerve, after all these years.

Like I said, don't be like me. Take a stand NOW.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Turnera, do you enjoy not having a car at your disposal? If not, take care of the problem. He doesn't have a problem - he has your car.


----------



## 225985 (Dec 29, 2015)

Blondilocks said:


> Turnera, do you enjoy not having a car at your disposal? If not, take care of the problem. He doesn't have a problem - he has your car.


You are wasting your time BL. Tunera will never get her car back.

Now Tunera2, on the other hand, is much stronger. SHE will get her car back.


----------

