# STBXH Still Mad Son Knows About His AP



## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

My STBXH moved out a little over a week ago. Just a brief recap for those who don't know: He had an affair that started last September with a woman he met in another state. I found out about it in February. He thinks he wants to be with her, so we have started divorce proceedings (drafted a settlement - nothing signed yet).

When we told our 13-year-old son, which was not until mid-April, I asked that the OW also be mentioned (STBX wanted to only tell him that we were both unhappy in the marriage, which was not entirely true, and we had decided we'd be better apart - he did not even want to tell him about the OW's existence, even though she plans to move in with him as soon as the divorce is final). So, he agreed to mention her as being the main reason he is leaving right now. 

So, she's coming to town to "visit" him where he's living now (which is only 15 minutes' drive across town), and STBX wants me not to tell our son she's even here. He thinks he's going to sneak her around for a week, while still spending some quality time each day with our son who knows he's on vacation from work for that time period.

I'm slightly torn (I know some of you won't agree with that), because I know that if my son knows she's staying with him over there for a week already, when he just moved a week ago, will really hurt him - he's not a big fan of the idea of her moving down here later this year, as it is.

When I talked to STBX about this yesterday and expressed these thoughts, he goes, "I TOLD you we shouldn't have told him about her yet - it's too much for him to absorb all at once." I had to explain to him, again, why lying to him wasn't/isn't the best play, here. Ultimately, I had to say, "Lying to him about her isn't protecting him - it's protecting YOU."

He just doesn't get it. Clearly, deep down he realizes what he's been doing is wrong, otherwise, why not be shouting his love for her from the rooftops? He's having her come down her to "sneak her around" (his words). I can't believe this is how a normal person would want to be treated, either. She must be a train wreck of a desperately lonely and needy person. I dread the thought of my son ever meeting her, let alone having her be any significant part of his life.


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## Lloyd Dobler (Apr 24, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> My STBXH moved out a little over a week ago. Just a brief recap for those who don't know: He had an affair that started last September with a woman he met in another state. I found out about it in February. He thinks he wants to be with her, so we have started divorce proceedings (drafted a settlement - nothing signed yet).
> 
> When we told our 13-year-old son, which was not until mid-April, I asked that the OW also be mentioned (STBX wanted to only tell him that we were both unhappy in the marriage, which was not entirely true, and we had decided we'd be better apart - he did not even want to tell him about the OW's existence, even though she plans to move in with him as soon as the divorce is final). So, he agreed to mention her as being the main reason he is leaving right now.
> 
> ...


What a bunch of malarkey. He's only interested in what benefits himself and he doesn't really give a rat's ass about his son. It's really clear that his son isn't his primary focus, it's his girlfriend. If your son is mad about that (and in my opinion, he should be), that that's too effing bad. He made his choices, he needs to man up and live with them.


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## ScrambledEggs (Jan 14, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> Ultimately, I had to say, "Lying to him about her isn't protecting him - it's protecting YOU."


I would tend to agree with this statement but I would also say what is best for the kid should be considered first and I don't feel qualified to weigh in on that.

I think this is lose-lose for him personally. Eventually your son will figure out that his father was unfaithful to you and the father will have to deal with that now or the fallout later with his deception to his kid added in. Either way the kid is going to lose respect for his dad over this sooner or later.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

You have no obligation to protect your stbx. Your son needs at least one parent he can trust. If you hide this info from him it's a lie by omission. When, not if, when your son finds out the truth he'll know he can't trust you any more than his scumbag of a father. Finding out so early in life that even the people that he trusts the most don't have his back will mess him up for life.


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

It's always better to lie to your children when it comes to the family breakup. They can go for years believing that THEY may be the reason for the split.
Of course, if the two of you level with him to start with, he can progress forward more or less on his own and it will better prepare him for life as it is.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Why did you drag your son into the middle of your marriage problems ? Careful - he may just turn against you for trying to turn him against his dad.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* The entire focus being exercised here is at the behest of your STBXH, and not on his son!

If this continues, it will do little more than to create and continue to foster contempt between your son and his dad.*


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## Abc123wife (Sep 18, 2013)

When I talked to STBX about this yesterday and expressed these thoughts, he goes, "I TOLD you we shouldn't have told him about her yet - it's too much for him to absorb all at once." 

You should tell him something like "I TOLD you you shouldn't have started a new relationship before being divorced because it is too much for your son to absorb that his father is a cheater!"

Could your husband not wait a few more months until the divorce is over to have her visiting for the whole week? How disrespectful of him to you to have to know she is there all week while you are still married. But since he is selfish and his needs and fun come first, at the very least, do not let him use your house for visits with his son that week. With her at his apartment, he will want his visits to take place at your house so he can keep her hidden. Let him know he doesn't get to use you and your house to cover his indiscretion of having her spend his vacation with him instead of his son getting his full vacation time.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2&out said:


> Why did you drag your son into the middle of your marriage problems ? Careful - he may just turn against you for trying to turn him against his dad.


There is a stark difference between simply being honest w/ the boy (sans venom) and trying to turn him against his father.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Nomorebeans said:


> When I talked to STBX about this yesterday and expressed these thoughts, he goes, "I TOLD you we shouldn't have told him about her yet - it's too much for him to absorb all at once." I had to explain to him, again, why lying to him wasn't/isn't the best play, here. Ultimately, I had to say, "Lying to him about her isn't protecting him - it's protecting YOU."


 Your husband is a liar and a cheat and his opinion cannot be trusted. You and your husband are no longer a team. Your husband does not have your best interest at heart. Do not let his bad decisions be your bad decisions. Your son is a teenage and not a little kid anymore; in some states he will soon be old enough that he could be charged as an adult in a crime. Of course your son is old enough to know the truth about why his life is being messed up. Right now he needs to know that he can trust someone, and by default that someone must be you. Going forward, you need to be transpant with your son about what is going on. You do not have to be graphic, but you do need to tell him the truth. 

BTW, since your soon to be ex's affair partner will be in town, there is a good chance others will see them together. You do not want your son to find out from others. Do not do that to him. I know of what I speak on this as my father cheated on my mother, and I still have issues with them even today because my mother bought into my fathers bull about protecting me. Do not let your son have issues with you because you bought into the cheater's script. You have done nothing wrong and should not have to share in the lying.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Why even discussing these things with your STBX? Just be open and honest with your son.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

2&out said:


> Why did you drag your son into the middle of your marriage problems ? Careful - he may just turn against you for trying to turn him against his dad.


Please explain how it would be best to leave out the existence of a person who will very likely move in permanently with his father as soon as a couple months from now?

I do not badmouth his Dad or the OW to him at all, and don't plan to. We also kept the details of the affair, deception, and betrayal to a minimum when we told him. We simply told him that Dad has met someone else he wants to be with, and we're separating and divorcing so he can do that. We stressed that nothing is changing in terms of where our son will live or go to school, or generally how much time he'll get to spend with his Dad (who is out of town about half the time for his job and always has been since our son was born); the main difference is that Dad won't be living with us anymore.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

TRy said:


> Your husband is a liar and a cheat and his opinion cannot be trusted. You and your husband are no longer a team. Your husband does not have your best interest at heart. Do not let his bad decisions be your bad decisions. Your son is a teenage and not a little kid anymore; in some states he will soon be old enough that he could be charged as an adult in a crime. Of course your son is old enough to know the truth about why his life is being messed up. Right now he needs to know that he can trust someone, and by default that someone must be you. Going forward, you need to be transpant with your son about what is going on. You do not have to be graphic, but you do need to tell him the truth.
> 
> BTW, since your soon to be ex's affair partner will be in town, there is a good chance others will see them together. You do not want your son to find out from others. Do not do that to him. I know of what I speak on this as my father cheated on my mother, and I still have issues with them even today because my mother bought into my fathers bull about protecting me. Do not let your son have issues with you because you bought into the cheater's script. You have done nothing wrong and should not have to share in the lying.


Thank you. I appreciate your sharing your personal experience in this matter. I will tell my son simply and plainly, lest he find out from somebody else. We both have friends in the neighborhood where STBX is living - how he thinks he can hide her for a week from everyone we know in a small town we've lived in for 22 years is stupefying. Will they just order food to be delivered every day? Hole up in there like they're fugitives? He's insane.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I admire your perspective. My son is so little I couldn't explain to him if I tried about his father cheating. For the under 3 set i was advised by his teachers and a therapist to give him as few details as possible. I don't know if/at what point it's going to be appropriate to tell him but that's another bridge. Your son is a teenager though. It's understandable that he is upset and is old enough to know the very basics of the situation at least that you've given him. I think as long as you guys don't yell at each other in front of him or bring the conflict you have to your relationship with your son, there's no reason he can't eventually adapt. Your STBXH is covering his own ass and using your son as an excuse to do it. You might want to point out the fact that eventually if your STBX and this woman are together, it will be made public and your son will find out. 

I think in the long run it will be more hurtful and damaging to your son to be lied to about what his dad is doing. Ask your STBX to imagine your son's shock if he happens across his dad with another woman in town without any preparation during an already stressful and hormonal time for him. It's highly likely if you and your son live near your STBX. If only to avoid that scenario, perhaps he'll reconsider what is best to your son is to not be blind-sided and lied to.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

Of course your STBXH knows what is right and wrong-he doesn't want to face the consequences of his own actions.

If it will cause your son pain for STBXH to see the OW, then own it and find a way to work through it, or he shouldn't see her. This is extremely selfish on STBXH's part.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

It isn't your job to "educate" him about his fathers relationships. His dad should do that himself with his son. You might not like how or when he does it but that doesn't give you the right to do it for him. 

IMHO this is a time it is best to take the high road - leave others peoples business to them. IMHO it will make you look the better person and not bitter. You son is also 13 - not a little kid anymore. He can and will figure out what is going on mostly on his own.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

2&out said:


> It isn't your job to "educate" him about his fathers relationships. His dad should do that himself with his son. You might not like how or when he does it but that doesn't give you the right to do it for him.
> 
> IMHO this is a time it is best to take the high road - leave others peoples business to them. IMHO it will make you look the better person and not bitter. You son is also 13 - not a little kid anymore. He can and will figure out what is going on mostly on his own.


And when dad refuses to "educate" his son about his new relationships, then what?

Avoidance is not healthy


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2&out said:


> It isn't your job to "educate" him about his fathers relationships. His dad should do that himself with his son. You might not like how or when he does it but that doesn't give you the right to do it for him.


He should. But he isn't. And either way, a mother telling her son that (a) she and his father are divorcing and (b) why they're divorcing doesn't quite qualify as educating the boy w/ respect to his father's relationship w/ OW.

What a load of tripe.



2&out said:


> IMHO this is a time it is best to take the high road - leave others peoples business to them. IMHO it will make you look the better person and not bitter. You son is also 13 - not a little kid anymore. He can and will figure out what is going on mostly on his own.


Blah. Blah. Blah.

Simply telling the boy -- openly and honestly -- the truth w/ respect to why his life is about to change (and profoundly) is in no way getting involved in "other peoples business".

I find myself growing more and more curious w/ respect to the circumstances surrounding your own divorce.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Not trying to start a fight - I just see it a little different. If Dad is bringing new flame into small town they've lived in so long then obviously he isn't really trying hard to hide it. I think if the son has questions about his dad and what is going on in his life then he should be told to ask Dad. Listening to gripes and concerns is fine and should be done but trying to explain what someone else is doing or why IMHO isn't proper when it involves the other parent.

My Mom made sure we knew my dad was a cheater and left her for another woman -- and all 3 of us kids ended up losing respect for her and her self entitled need and desire to educate us on the "facts of our lives" as she saw it. Dad was fully capable of explaining what he was doing - whether it was "right" or not.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2&out said:


> Not trying to start a fight - I just see it a little different. If Dad is bringing new flame into small town they've lived in so long then obviously he isn't really trying hard to hide it. I think if the son has questions about his dad and what is going on in his life then he should be told to ask Dad. Listening to gripes and concerns is fine and should be done but trying to explain what someone else is doing or why IMHO isn't proper when it involves the other parent.
> 
> My Mom made sure we knew my dad was a cheater and left her for another woman -- and all 3 of us kids ended up losing respect for her and her self entitled need and desire to educate us on the "facts of our lives" as she saw it. *Dad was fully capable of explaining what he was doing - whether it was "right" or not.*


Did he?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

2&out said:


> Not trying to start a fight - I just see it a little different. If Dad is bringing new flame into small town they've lived in so long then obviously he isn't really trying hard to hide it. I think if the son has questions about his dad and what is going on in his life then he should be told to ask Dad. Listening to gripes and concerns is fine and should be done but trying to explain what someone else is doing or why IMHO isn't proper when it involves the other parent.
> 
> My Mom made sure we knew my dad was a cheater and left her for another woman -- and all 3 of us kids ended up losing respect for her and her self entitled need and desire to educate us on the "facts of our lives" as she saw it. Dad was fully capable of explaining what he was doing - whether it was "right" or not.


In a perfect world none of this would happen.
I am sorry your Mom had a hard time recovering from your father's infidelity, some can't without support.

When my marriage was ending, I told my ex it was his responsibility to explain this to his daughters. He refused. One discovered his serial cheating before I did, the other was left confused and scared primarily because Dad refused to discuss it. I had to. That is usually the way it goes.

Would it have been better if they heard if from their father? Probably not. He continues to view his serial cheating as a right he had to make himself happy. (he has issues) I viewed it as a betrayal of marital vows.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

As parents, it is the job to prepare to the best of your ability, and give the highest probability of success to your children.

The real world does not work on idealistic ideals, but operate in a cold reality. Your giving your son that reality to help give him a complete picture. He will have to determine the value in that reality himself.

You gave him the facts, that is all. Your not coloring your emotions and your giving your son a real picture of who his father is, and with that cold reality, he will adjust his expectations and deal with his father as the person he is, not some idealistic version.

He now knows that adults are flawed, and the people he loved are flawed as well.

Shielding him completely only makes one ignorant. You can tell him in a way he can handle. As he ages, you can fill more in the emotional complexity as he matures.

There are people in the world that could hurt him, even loved ones, and that is a valuable lesson.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

2&out said:


> My Mom made sure we knew my dad was a cheater and left her for another woman -- and all 3 of us kids ended up losing respect for her and her self entitled need and desire to educate us on the "facts of our lives" as she saw it. Dad was fully capable of explaining what he was doing - whether it was "right" or not.


An affair is the epitome of self gratification and self entitlement. Hopefully, you held your father to the same standard.

Right or wrong? Hmm, sounds like there are other issues going on in your situation.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Yes and no. He tried to avoid some of it and lied about some of it. And we knew. We kids weren't as dumb or unobservant as he hoped. Mom making sure we knew the whole story just made us somewhat distant to both of them. I believe kids just need unconditional love and support - not all kinds of explanations. That approach seems to have been the best route for my kids who everyone seems to feel are "normal" and well adjusted. I just answered questions as briefly as I could and didn't give information unless directly asked. The issues were between me and their mom - not them - and I kept them out of it as much as possible and stayed as far away from their relationship with their mom and her relationships as much as possible.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Just be honest with your son and give him the facts. I agree with the others that your son should know that OW is coming to town rather than hear this from other people. Just state facts and leave it at that. At 13 years of age, your son understands more than you give him credit for. Your son is sad that his world has changed. Preparing him to see the OW can help him cope with what is ahead.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2&out said:


> Yes and no. He tried to avoid some of it and lied about some of it. And we knew. We kids weren't as dumb or unobservant as he hoped. Mom making sure we knew the whole story just made us somewhat distant to both of them.


Well there you go. Your father left a vacuum and your mother filled it. It sounds like she went about it the wrong way, but that's as much on him (even more so, IMO) as it is on her.

There is a correct way to go about this process. A modicum of dignity is due.



2&out said:


> I believe kids just need unconditional love and support...


Correct. Unless, of course, by "just" you mean "only".



2&out said:


> ...not all kinds of explanations.


Eh... the two aren't mutually exclusive.



2&out said:


> That approach seems to have been the best route for my kids who everyone seems to feel are "normal" and well adjusted. I just answered questions as briefly as I could and didn't give information unless directly asked. The issues were between me and their mom - not them - and I kept them out of it as much as possible and stayed as far away from their relationship with their mom and her relationships as much as possible.


It's great that this approach has worked for you.

How old are your children? Expect them to start asking questions as they get older.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

It was over 20 years ago. We've all moved on and honestly I think none of us suffered deep or significant emotional damage. Dad thinks he's something special and Mom's a drama queen. We roll our eyes and laugh. 

Divorce I think is never pleasant and of course everyone including the kids is affected by it. I think all that can be done is be as neutral and supportive as possible and not a lot else can be done. JMHO


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sorry, unconditional love and knowledge are not mutually exclusive.


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

Sorry - thread isn't about me. But 15 and 18 now and divorce was 12 years ago.

I just wanted to submit to the post person that maybe stepping back a bit from the situation might give her son some space and diffuse the situation a little.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

I do not understand adults who involve children in divorce drama to get revenge on the other parent.

I've been through a nasty, contentious divorce and my kids had enough to deal with transition without having to deal with the nonsense between two grown people who made a lot of mistakes.

There is a ton of data out there which emphasizes that divorcing people should keep their kids out of their mess.

Its about loving your kids more than you hate your ex. That was easy for me. 

We're talking about a 13 year old kid here. And you can be as mad as a hell at his father but you don't need to do that in front of the kid. The bottom line is that children identify with their biological parent...especially the same sex one...so you bash the father, you bash the kid. There's a TON of data out there on this. And you'll end up reaping what you sow. Alienating this child from his own father is a really short-sighted idea.

6 years after divorce...I have two very successful, happy children because divorce ends but parenting doesn't and children have a right to a relationship with both parents...even if they make marital mistakes. In the entire time that my ex was punishing me in divorce and all the crap he did in marriage...I've NEVER badmouthed him in front of my kids and never revealed all the details of our divorce. That's not crap my kids needed to deal with...I chose to marry him...not them.

I actually sought an expert opinion from a family and child psychiatrist when I was going through my divorce. It helped a lot to help me with tactics and what trauma signs to look for. I'd recommend that divorcing parents seek expert advice on this....you'll get a lot better information on how to handle things.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

2&out said:


> It was over 20 years ago. We've all moved on and honestly *I think none of us suffered deep or significant emotional damage.* Dad thinks he's something special and Mom's a drama queen. We roll our eyes and laugh.
> 
> Divorce I think is never pleasant and of course everyone including the kids is affected by it. I think all that can be done is be as neutral and supportive as possible and not a lot else can be done. JMHO


FWIW, your mother might have.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> I do not understand adults who involve children in divorce drama to get revenge on the other parent.
> 
> I've been through a nasty, contentious divorce and my kids had enough to deal with transition without having to deal with the nonsense between two grown people who made a lot of mistakes.
> 
> ...


Unless I've read OP's comments incorrectly, this isn't about bashing her STBXH; it's about nothing more than being honest w/ her son w/ respect to the reasoning behind the impending dissolution of her marriage to his father.

Be honest, but don't bash.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> As parents, it is the job to prepare to the best of your ability, and give the highest probability of success to your children.
> 
> The real world does not work on idealistic ideals, but operate in a cold reality. Your giving your son that reality to help give him a complete picture. He will have to determine the value in that reality himself.


She's giving him HER version of reality.

Children have the right to form their own perspective....not be a ping pong ball between two angry, feuding parents who use the kid to score shots on each other.

All the data on kids and how they weather divorce has to do with the parents trying to REDUCE the trauma and involve that the kid has to go through during the transition. Its about loving your kids...and recognizing that they don't need to deal with the details of your sex life or fights.

Kids aren't dumb and they'll figure out who their parents are and what they're about on their own. They have the right and ability to form their own opinions about reality....not to pick that up from some bitter parent. Does every adult on this forum share exactly the same version of reality of their parents or did they form their own over their own life experiences?

Your ex might be a total cheating idiot who uses bad judgment...so what? That's all the more reason that your kid needs to have one decent, loving parent who puts their needs first before their penis or their hate. This kid needs a sanctuary with a parent that cares about HIM and focuses on HIS needs....otherwise you're just lowering yourself to the same level of crappy parenting.

Just look up the data on warring divorcing parents and the effect it has on the kids.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

See, it really does depend on the situation involved, and the therapists they frequent. 

OP has NOT bashed her STBXH. Telling a child in an age-appropriate manner the reasons their family is being divided is not bashing anyone. That conversation has already taken place for OP's son. Now her STBXH feels uncomfortable with his truth.

I accept that some view infidelity as an issue that only impacts a H & W. If the couple chose to reconcile that might be right. I see infidelity as impacting an entire family when it results in divorce. Children, as part of that family, have a right to know. That's not bashing, that's respect.

And I consulted a family therapist before telling our youngest, who completely agreed with my reasoning in our situation.


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## EnigmaGirl (Feb 7, 2015)

> Unless I've read OP's comments incorrectly, this isn't about bashing her STBXH; it's about nothing more than being honest w/ her son w/ respect to the reasoning behind the impending dissolution of her marriage to his father.
> 
> Be honest, but don't bash.


It IS bashing to involve your children in the intimate details of your sex life, fights or affair details. 

And the father will probably retaliate. He'll tell the kid about how the mother never gave him affectionate or sex...or how she was a spendthrift...or whatever else he'll use to justify bashing her back.

This is detail the kid doesn't need to be involved in or need to know...period.

But go ahead and encourage her to deal with her bitterness through her own child. At the end of the day, she's the one who's going to have to deal with the very real outcomes for her kid if she listens to that advice rather than seeking some real data and expertise.

I'm off of this thread...I find it disturbing.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

1. My husband told our son about our divorce and the OW's role in it. Not me. I didn't say a word about it. I was in the room when he did so. The only talking I did was to reinforce to our son that we both love him very, very much, he's going to continue to live right where he is with me and stay in the same school, and we're both going to continue to do everything we can to be the best parents we can for him, and as much of a part of his life as we've always been. Since then, I've not said a word to him about her or their relationship unless he has asked me a pointed, factual question.

2. I don't think you're really reading any of my posts, 2&out and EnigmaGirl. I've said repeatedly that I've never badmouthed my STBX or the OW to my son, and I don't plan to. My son has asked me a couple of questions about her since he learned of our impending divorce, and I've either given him an honest and straightforward answer without any editorializing, or I've told him that he should speak with his father about it because I really can't answer for him. One of the questions was "Where did he meet her?" I knew the answer to this one and wasn't going to lie and pretend I didn't know - these are the only kinds of questions about her I answer.

My point in this thread is that after having moved out just one week ago, he is having her fly down here from another state and stay with him for a full week - and in the house we used to live in together before we bought our current house, by the way - while he is on vacation from his job, and he doesn't want me to tell our son that she's here. And he still thinks he shouldn't have told him about her yet in general. I think our son should know she's here for a week, because other people who know my son (who my STBX also hasn't told anything about her, and in some cases, even that he's moved out and we're divorcing) could very easily see them out together somewhere, and it could get back to him, anyway. In which case, as others have said here, he'll have two parents he can't trust.

I appreciate your points of view and do agree with you that badmouthing an ex and his or her relationship partners is never a good play in a divorce where kids are involved. But I don't agree that withholding information/lying to my son is.


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

when my ex- wife was cheating and we were fighting a lot, zooming up on divorcing, she had the gall to try to convince our kids, teenagers/early20s, that the reason we were divorcing was because their father (me) was always so angry.

And my kids were beginning to eat up that crap.

So I basically told them that yes, I am angry all the time but it is not for no reason. their mother has been cheating on me for years and hiding any admission of it.

She had agreed to tell them the truth and instead chose to tell them I was angry for no reason.

I divorced her in 2012. 

At first, the kids were very upset to find it out. particulary our daughter. She connected the dots about all the times her mom didn't pick her up from daycare, attend sporting events, girlscouts, etc. She was furious with her.

Our son was relieved to find out what was the cause of the drama.

My ex-wife was very angry with me for revealing her sick secret life to the kids.

Now, in 2015, three years later, i still hate the witch, but my kids have adjusted to our parting.

They are disappointed in their mom, but they have some kind of contact with her, despite her having moved 1500 miles away to hide out from anyone who knows of her cheating.

I did not see it as my job to protect her from the fallout from what she did.

I don't think you have to either.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

EnigmaGirl said:


> She's giving him HER version of reality.


No, daddy did the talking, it's their reality.


> STBX did the talking - he did the betraying, filing, and now is doing the leaving. He did mention her as one of the reasons why. We agreed to downplay it - it does our son no service to know just what kind of appalling behavior his Dad is capable of. But now he knows that he met her while we were still married and that she's the primary reason why he wants to leave now.


So, they did EXACTLY what you and the other poster suggested. Now, she doesn't want to hide he OW when she is in town.

How that is intimate, makes her bitter or lowering herself to being a crappy parent I have no clue. Then again, we do get Trigger Threads and a ton of projection on TAM.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

EnigmaGirl said:


> It IS bashing to involve your children in the intimate details of your sex life, fights or affair details.
> 
> And the father will probably retaliate. He'll tell the kid about how the mother never gave him affectionate or sex...or how she was a spendthrift...or whatever else he'll use to justify bashing her back.
> 
> ...


Where do you think we get this advice and data from? Most clinical child psychologists recommend telling children, in an age appropriate manner of course, the truth about these matters.



MelodyLane said:


> SEJ3 said:
> 
> 
> > What do I tell them? That mommy had a friend?
> ...


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> *It IS bashing to involve your children in the intimate details of your sex life, fights or affair details.*
> 
> And the father will probably retaliate. He'll tell the kid about how the mother never gave him affectionate or sex...or how she was a spendthrift...or whatever else he'll use to justify bashing her back.
> 
> ...


Uhhh... who here has advocated -- or even *MENTIONED* -- doing that...?!?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> Unless I've read OP's comments incorrectly, this isn't about bashing her STBXH; it's about nothing more than being honest w/ her son w/ respect to the reasoning behind the impending dissolution of her marriage to his father.
> 
> Be honest, but don't bash.


Exactly. He is a big enough man to betray and destroy his family for the sake of his crotch, I think he better quit pouting about the fallout from his stupidity.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2&out (Apr 16, 2015)

I admit I don't understand. Why does he need to know she is coming to town ? In case some other person tells him they saw his dad with someone ? So ? Why would that be a problem ? If it comes up or he has a question tell him to call dad.


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

2&out said:


> I admit I don't understand. Why does he need to know she is coming to town ? In case some other person tells him they saw his dad with someone ? So ? Why would that be a problem ? If it comes up or he has a question tell him to call dad.


Why should the son be blind-sided? Isn't that more damaging in this instance? She has no obligation or duty as a STBXW or a parent to hide dad's gf. I'm not saying you scream around the house "dad's ***** is in town" but OP isn't suggesting that either.

I do completely agree with you that any questions about this should be directed to dad. Let dad explain this, this is on him to smooth out and his responsibility to forge a relationship with his son.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

EnigmaGirl said:


> It IS bashing to involve your children in the intimate details of your sex life, fights or affair details.
> 
> *And the father will probably retaliate.* He'll tell the kid about how the mother never gave him affectionate or sex...or how she was a spendthrift...or whatever else he'll use to justify bashing her back.
> 
> ...


Probably will. As will my x when I tell our daughters what she did. I fully expect the "controlling" and "he was so mean" bs to flair up again. But they both deserve to know the truth. I won't lie to them because it's something she would rather keep hidden. She lost the right of being the moral parent the moment she cheated. 

I agree with the OP .....I wouldn't lie to my kids. Tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. The truth is not the same as bashing. The children will decide for themselves if their parent was a good parent or not.


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

2&out said:


> I admit I don't understand. Why does he need to know she is coming to town ? In case some other person tells him they saw his dad with someone ? So ? Why would that be a problem ? If it comes up or he has a question tell him to call dad.


:slap:


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

2&out said:


> I admit I don't understand. Why does he need to know she is coming to town ? In case some other person tells him they saw his dad with someone ? So ? Why would that be a problem ? If it comes up or he has a question tell him to call dad.


2&out (and NoMoreBeans), 

I'll take a stab at answering this one. I believe the son does need to know because as a 13yo young teen, he's not stupid. He knows that dad has the week off...and yet somehow, mysteriously, dad will not be available during the whole vacation to spend anytime with HIM. 

So the son does need to be informed because if he is NOT informed, one of two things is likely: a) he will hear it on the rumor mill from some kids at school teasing him "I saw your dad with some woman who isn't your mom!" or b) he will think his dad doesn't love him enough to spend time with him even when dad has time off!

I think it would be very reasonable to tell him just the facts: "You know how next week dad has a vacation from work? Well I'm just letting you know that he has invited ___ to come spend time with him during that vacation. So if you have any questions you can ask me or ask your dad about when/how he plans to schedule time with you. Okay?" 

The end. 

There's no bashing involved, and the son is relieved of wondering why his dad doesn't want to spend time with him, why his dad disappeared for a week, etc. Now he (the son) may not be happy to hear why his dad is taking off, but that's between him and his dad to work out--right? Because here's the truth: adultery does not only affect the adults! HIS LIFE (the son's) is being impacted DRAMATICALLY and he needs to have tools to cope with what's happening and how it fits into his (the son's) belief system too.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

michzz said:


> I did not see it as my job to protect her from the fallout from what she did.
> 
> I don't think you have to either.


Thank you, michzz.

I agree.

Like Dr. Harley says, it's not my honest admission to my son that yes, his Dad is leaving me for another woman that is upsetting to him - it's the fact that his Dad is leaving me for another woman (and that he met her while we were still married and a family unit) that is upsetting to him. If you lie to to your children about it or cover it up, they will eventually find out, and then they'll be even more upset because they can no longer trust either of their parents.

This woman is going to be a regular part of my son's life very soon. Once my STBX moves her down here, there can be no denying her existence or hiding her. He thinks he can get away with telling all his friends and family that he "just" met her right after we separated - that we parted mutually and for no other reasons than we were both equally unhappy in the marriage, and that she had nothing to do with it. (He admitted to me this was his plan - he was originally going to go see her this week, as I said in my OP, and he was going to tell everyone that he met her on *this* trip (when it was really last September), but his Dad is in the hospital with congestive heart failure and is not doing well, so he decided to have her come down here instead).

He thinks they won't figure it out, even after she's moved in with him from another state (that she's lived in her whole life) two months from now, and I'm still where I am, not even dating anyone else. Even though his closest friends in that other state know her and know all about it, and even though his own son knows about her because HE told him.

Am I bitter about all this? Sure. Bitter as hell. But I don't plan to share these details with my son. I just think he should know she's in town (and that he doesn't have to meet her yet, which I think is the main thing he's apprehensive about), in case one of his many school friends who knows us all sees his Dad out with her somewhere and mentions it to him. And he should know because it's the truth, and I don't like hiding things from him in general.


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## lucy999 (Sep 28, 2014)

2&out said:


> Why did you drag your son into the middle of your marriage problems ? Careful - he may just turn against you for trying to turn him against his dad.


I couldn't disagree more. The facts aren't pretty. There's no disputing the truth. OP's STBX made terrible choices. Of course, the way the OP handles the situation is crucial. If she sticks to the facts, as unpleasant as they are, that's NOT turning her son against his dad. That's all on dad. It's true, it happened, The End. I think a 13 year old is cognizant enough to make his own decisions about how to feel about either parent.

If she were to actively badmouth her STBX, sure, that's not acceptable. There's a huge difference in the two scenarios, though.

Oh and she didn't 'drag' her son into anything. His dad sure did, though.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Nomorebeans said:


> He thinks he can get away with telling all his friends and family that he "just" met her right after we separated - that we parted mutually and for no other reasons than we were both equally unhappy in the marriage, and that she had nothing to do with it. (He admitted to me this was his plan - he was originally going to go see her this week, as I said in my OP, and he was going to tell everyone that he met her on *this* trip (when it was really last September)


 I do not for the life of me understand those that say that it is none of your business to tell your own son why both of your lives are being so dramatically messed up by decision not of your doing, and why anyone feels that the cheater is entitled to be the only one that gets to explain it to your son. This is especially puzzling when you know for a fact that the cheater intends to lie about the truth and put a spin on things that will distort what is really going on.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

2&out said:


> Why did you drag your son into the middle of your marriage problems ? Careful - he may just turn against you for trying to turn him against his dad.


Mate, where _exactly_ do you think their son *is*? :scratchhead:

On another continent? A different planet? A different realm in the space time continuum? 

I'l tell you where their son is: He is *Already* slap bang in the middle of the marriage problems. Why? because that's exactly where his father put him by his cheating on his wife and his son.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Uhhh... who here has advocated -- or even *MENTIONED* -- doing that...?!?


Gus, do you agree with me that someone was projecting just a tad?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

MattMatt said:


> Gus, do you agree with me that someone was projecting just a tad?


Yep. In fact, maybe even a couple of someones.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> Yep. In fact, maybe even a couple of someones.


I think it is really _sweet_ that someone is rooting for the cheating dad and his new squeeze.

Yes, lets's be nice to The Cad and his Jezebel! :smthumbup:

Obviously his wife and son will be feeling like they have been thrown away like a couple of used tissues, but you can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, right?


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Oh-ho-ho, MattMatt... That meme is a beautiful thing. I'm so tempted to send it to STBX's two friends (who I thought were also my friends, but clearly, I was mistaken), who not only helped him lie about where he was when he went up there to see her and told me he was staying with them, but who also had dinner with the two of them twice while he was up there with her, like they were already an established couple (they had actually only known each other physically for a few days at that point), and my son and I didn't even exist.

So tempted...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Nomorebeans said:


> Oh-ho-ho, MattMatt... That meme is a beautiful thing. I'm so tempted to send it to STBX's two friends (who I thought were also my friends, but clearly, I was mistaken), who not only helped him lie about where he was when he went up there to see her and told me he was staying with them, but who also had dinner with the two of them twice while he was up there with her, like they were already an established couple (they had actually only known each other physically for a few days at that point), and my son and I didn't even exist.
> 
> So tempted...


Don't be tempted...


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

You do not have to cover for your husband, you owe him nothing. Your son is 13 and probably knows alot more than you think he does. He is entitled to the truth and no covering up. If you both lie to him now what example are you setting for him, that sneaking around and telling half truths is the way to go?
Further, do not let your STBXH get away with pretending that he was in an A when you parted, please set the whole family straight on that one, he doesn't deserve anyone covering for him.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Nomorebeans said:


> When we told our 13-year-old son, which was not until mid-April, I asked that the OW also be mentioned (STBX wanted to only tell him that we were both unhappy in the marriage, which was not entirely true, and we had decided we'd be better apart - he did not even want to tell him about the OW's existence, even though she plans to move in with him as soon as the divorce is final). So, he agreed to mention her as being the main reason he is leaving right now.
> 
> So, she's coming to town to "visit" him where he's living now (which is only 15 minutes' drive across town), and STBX wants me not to tell our son she's even here. He thinks he's going to sneak her around for a week, while still spending some quality time each day with our son who knows he's on vacation from work for that time period.
> 
> I'm slightly torn (I know some of you won't agree with that), because I know that if my son knows she's staying with him over there for a week already, when he just moved a week ago, will really hurt him - he's not a big fan of the idea of her moving down here later this year, as it is.


Of course you should be honest with your son. You don't have to get into any big details, but give him the true facts suitable for his maturity level. "Your father has a girlfriend, this is why our marriage is ending, and she's coming to stay with him for the week of his vacation."

Your ex asking you to lie to your own child is not to protect the child. It's to protect HIM.

The days of you being complicit in your ex's lies are over. So are the days of you doing him favours. I wouldn't enable his time with your son at your house. Make him take your son out elsewhere. He doesn't have to go home to the girlfriend, but he can't stay at your house.

You've just seen the damage lies can do. Be an honest person, especially with your son.


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## Chas (Apr 2, 2015)

WOW, what a blow up (4 pages) over keeping the son up to date. I can't help but lend my (old) perspective to this discussion.

Many years ago (I was 11 or 12) my mom and dad split up. No sit down, explanation or discussion. My mother moved about 150 miles away for a few months, until me and my three siblings joined her. We spent the next couple years shuffling between my mothers and fathers homes. Somewhere along the line I figured out my father and the neighbor lady were an item, thus the divorce. She and my dad were living together and when we were with him I didn't like her very much (think narcissist). By the time I was 14, me and my 3 siblings were living with my dad full time and no neighbor lady.
The point is that I didn't have any idea what was going on in the early stages and my imagination ran wild with speculation. I knew my mom and dad argued a lot and finally figured out that they were divorcing and he was marrying the neighbor (lasted only a year or so). I picked up more information from my relatives (aunts, uncles, cousins) about the situation than I ever got from my parents. As an adult I know that my dad was cheating on my mom with the neighbor and that her youngest son was my dad's. 

Kids are fairly smart and will figure things out on their own. Whether the info they get is true or not, is the problem, especially if some of it is not flattering to the parents.

Kids can adjust to almost any situation, you just have to tell them what the rules are.

The pain a child feels when parents divorce is real and will stay with them much longer when they don't know what tomorrow brings or they have to learn about the other woman from friends. When your buddy says "I hear your mom and dad are divorcing" and you haven't been told, it hurts.

Everyone's divorce situation is different and is handled differently so I have some trouble with people that want to make all the variable fit into nice, neat little boxes and present the results as "hard data", that we should heed when handling our situation. If you've ever done a phone survey you'll know that the questions often determine the answers. 

I've been around her for a while and only recently began posting but try to do so with compassion and respect for the OP. But that's just me.

Sorry this turned into a novel but a couple of posters got me riled up.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

Chas said:


> As an adult I know that my dad was cheating on my mom with the neighbor and that her youngest son was my dad's.


 Your parents did not think to tell you that you that the neighbor's youngest son was your half brother? Are you kidding me? That is horrible. I have a half brother and we are very close even though we did not grow up in the same household, but that was because I always knew that he was my brother. My dad cheated on my Mom, but he would never do something like that. Your parents had no right to keep that from you. I have read some really dad stuff on this site, but this is one of the worst. 

Tell me again why some on this site think that because the cheater was the one that had the affair, that they are entitled to lie to their children about the affair?


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## Daniel. (Jan 14, 2015)

Telling him is the right thing to do, this is not just a marriage problem, this is ALSO a family problem. OP's stbx is wrecking this family so he can go and get a new piece. This is his family so he deserves the truth on why his stability is about to be smashed in pieces. OP is not dragging her son, her stbx is. Worse he intends to fool his son to protect his own a5s. Since when telling your child enough truth (not the details) is being a crappy parent ?

The one who called his betrayed mom a drama queen really makes me wonder, hmmmm


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I think this needs to be moved to the Private section.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

aine said:


> You do not have to cover for your husband, you owe him nothing. Your son is 13 and probably knows alot more than you think he does. He is entitled to the truth and no covering up. If you both lie to him now what example are you setting for him, that sneaking around and telling half truths is the way to go?
> Further, do not let your STBXH get away with pretending that he was in an A when you parted, please set the whole family straight on that one, he doesn't deserve anyone covering for him.


No worries there, aine. I have told his whole family what is really going on - his family that he hadn't even mentioned her existence to right up until within a week of his moving out, and then he implied to them that he had "just" met her on a very recent trip up there (like in the last month), and that he only "might be interested in" her. His sister was coming to visit because their Dad's in the hospital here - he must have figured my son or I might mention her so he'd better at least do that.

He's got so many different versions of the lie going, he can't even keep track of it anymore.

His sister is appalled. She told their brother and his wife, who now are also appalled. She also told their father (in a less descriptive way). He, too, is appalled.

He thinks he can lie about her right up until when he marries her, which he claims he's not going to "rush" to do (yeah, OK - you've been so honest so far), and then they will all greet her with open arms. They won't. They think she must be a train wreck of a human being to be trolling funerals for married men - that's where they met - a funeral, and for someone she didn't even know all that well.

I told my son very simply last night she was coming to visit him, that he did not have to meet her on this trip, and that his Dad still planned to come take him out, just the two of them, and do some things together while he's on his vacation.

He just kind of rolled his eyes and said "Why is he in such a hurry to be with her already? Can't he just wait?" I didn't answer that one, but instead said "Would you ever rather I didn't tell you this kind of stuff?" He goes "No, of course not. I'd end up figuring it out anyway, and then there'd just be more controversy." I said, "And then, you wouldn't trust me, to boot." He said, "It's not that. I would always trust you. There's just no reason to hide that kind of stuff."

Out of the mouths of babes.


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

This one seems like a no brainer. From your other posts I know your son is an intelligent and well composed young man. You have not bashed your STBX or thrown in extra details. Simply telling him that your STBX is having his OW stay with him for the week he is on vacation is little more than a common courtesy to your son. He is not stupid, his eyes have been opened and only your crackpot STBX could think his OW can be successfully "snuck around" for a full week in a small town, while spending "quality time" with his son each day. I think it is important to maintain honesty with your son. He needs to know he can count on and believe in you.

Speaking of the crackpot, what a crazy load of multiple scrambled plans he has to hatch covering the reason for the D and the presence of the OW. I hope you are in a good enough space to get some good laughs as this crumbles around him. People are not so gullible or in the dark as he seems to believe.

I will echo what has been said about not bashing. I think you have been on track with that. I think you have also not provided explanations/perspectives etc for your STBX's behavior to your son. Keep that up. The reasons your STBX did and does things are for him to explain. It seems you have also done a good job of not burdening your son with your own pain and feelings. This is very important and I hope you have friends or a counselor to share and work through your feelings and issues with.

Best of luck with this and the future.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Nomorebeans,

You strike me as a well grounded person. Your son seems intelligent. Be honest but spare him details that pain you.

Your well being is probably his greatest concern.


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## Chas (Apr 2, 2015)

NMB



> He just kind of rolled his eyes and said "Why is he in such a hurry to be with her already? Can't he just wait?" I didn't answer that one, but instead said "Would you ever rather I didn't tell you this kind of stuff?" He goes "No, of course not. I'd end up figuring it out anyway, and then there'd just be more controversy." I said, "And then, you wouldn't trust me, to boot." He said, "It's not that. I would always trust you. There's just no reason to hide that kind of stuff."


Good for you. It's important to keep him informed.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

Thanks, everyone (except for certain projecting cheaters).

I'm having a hard day today because she is now here in town with him. She arrived last night. Can't seem to make the mind movies stop - I imagine it must be Sex Fest 2015 over there.

He stopped by my house last night to spend a little time with our son before heading to the airport to pick her up. (Nice, huh?) I tried to be out doing my daily 3-mile walk the whole time he was there, but unfortunately we crossed paths before I got started.

He lamented privately to me how hard he's trying to "be considerate of my feelings" by balancing what he "should and shouldn't tell me." Yes, he really said that! I couldn't take that, so I said, "You know what would make that really easy? Not doing something you obviously know is wrong and you're ashamed of." Then he says, "Well, you were fine with me going up there to see her (actually I wasn't - that's another lie he tells himself) - it's just that that didn't work out, so she had to come down here." I said, "No one 'had' to do anything."

It's like talking to a sex-crazed dining room table.

Now, today, Depression (because of the mind movies) and Anger are battling it out. Sorry for yet another rant from me about him here, but I do find that the ranting helps my friend Anger win.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> Thanks, everyone (except for certain projecting cheaters).
> 
> I'm having a hard day today because she is now here in town with him. She arrived last night. Can't seem to make the mind movies stop - I imagine it must be Sex Fest 2015 over there.
> 
> ...


I hear ya! My STBX is going out tonight with his OW while I stay here as usual and take care of our kids. The mind movies are just terrible, especially since he tells me in graphic detail what they are going to do. 

I just have to push HER and her perfect little body out of my head and focus on how much better off I am without him and how much better I'll eventually be able to do. 

Hang in there!!! You did good with what you said.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

At some point, you will shake this selfish, superficial man off. You'll go through this phase of hurt and then, as you transition to your new life, you will wonder at his earlier power to rule your heart and mind. I know you know that you will get through it and come out in a less painful place, but I am saying it here because it's one of those painful times in life that we just have to live through, so knowing that it will be cr*p for a while, knowing that it's just unavoidable, can help your resolve to get to the other side.

I think that your WH has taken enough of your life already, NMB. Your life is precious and should be a life well-lived. It shouldn't be spent in pain because of one selfish man. Eventually you will be glad through and through to see the back of him because your life should be filled with the joy of living, not with the hurt that he bestows every day. He isn't worth another minute of your very valuable life.

Take a deep breath and tell yourself that every day and you might be able to shake him off sooner than you think.


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## Foolish Man (Apr 16, 2015)

Sorry you are going through this pain. I for one encourage you to rant away here (I do, even if just for myself). I love your "sex crazed dining room table".:rofl: Anger and depression is an ugly battle I hope it gets better for you soon. I am really glad you told your son about this visit. Even if it wasn't a matter of trust, fer chrissakes the kid deserves to be in the know ahead of time. It's pretty clear he would figure it out, even if the STBX didn't trip up (which I'm sure he would have). Your son doesn't need or deserve to be figuring this out as it is happening. 

I'd suggest not conversing with the STBX except for businesslike arrangements regarding child visitation. If your son sees you are being very brief and not dealing with any of the STBX's shyt it will be a good example.

STR: Why on earth would you let your POS describe in graphic detail. Set a boundary and enforce it. Walk out of the room or leave the house. No one should put up with that. I am sorry you are dealing with such a callous real POS. I hope you effect a separation very soon.


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## Nomorebeans (Mar 31, 2015)

SecondTime'Round said:


> I hear ya! My STBX is going out tonight with his OW while I stay here as usual and take care of our kids. The mind movies are just terrible, especially since he tells me in graphic detail what they are going to do.
> 
> I just have to push HER and her perfect little body out of my head and focus on how much better off I am without him and how much better I'll eventually be able to do.
> 
> Hang in there!!! You did good with what you said.


Ugh. That's so hard. I've had the "luxury" of this one living (for now) out of state, although the texts I found between them all about how they can't stop thinking about each other and can't wait to be together - at about a 15-year-old mentality when these are two 50-somethings - were almost worse than the mind movies. I can't imagine what it's like when the OW is a local person, though that'll be my reality soon enough. I was just hoping she wouldn't be on my turf for a while longer, so I could maybe get to the point where I don't care what he does anymore by that time. And a whole week! A few days of non-stop sex isn't enough? A friend said I should be glad it's a whole week, because that'll give him enough time to get sick of her. (I don't think she'll get sick of him, because she's an unattractive, desperate gold-digger who thinks she's landed herself a real prize - she's not the one who's ashamed to be seen with him.)

I hope someone we both know, but who doesn't know my son, because he hasn't told his friends about our divorce yet, runs into them when they're out somewhere, and he gets to experience that awkwardness in all its glory. And she gets to see how ashamed he is of her and what he's doing with her. Please, God. I don't ask for much - just this one small favor...


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Nomorebeans said:


> I hope someone we both know, but who doesn't know my son, because he hasn't told his friends about our divorce yet, runs into them when they're out somewhere, and he gets to experience that awkwardness in all its glory. And she gets to see how ashamed he is of her and what he's doing with her. Please, God. I don't ask for much - just this one small favor...


I hope that for you, too. I also hope she has the worst period of her life all week long while she's there.

This relationship will not last!


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