# Improving sex "quality" & adventurous attitude



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Any thoughts on how I can help my W be a bit more fun, sexy, adventurous, etc.? She is trying (i think) to be more diligent about having sex at least once per week (yes, that's an improvement), but, frankly, it can be a bit boring at times. I think she wants to improve quality, for my sake, but because she's LD I'm thinking she's finding that a bit of a challenge. 

Don't get me wrong, some vanilla sex is better than no sex, but we used to ROCK IT so much more.

Ideas?:what:


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

*Re: Improving the "quality" &amp; adventurous attitude*

What was different about your lives when you used to ROCK IT compared to now?

You say you "think" she wants to improve quality, does this mean you are just assuming or have you actually talked about it?

Just some starting points.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Yes, she has commented that maybe we should change our location from time to time to try and "spice things up," instead of just the bedroom. We were on the couch last night, but still it was pretty vanilla and not too exciting. Just a different room.


----------



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

Are you waiting for her to lead with this? Have you tried spicing it up?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## TrustInUs (Sep 9, 2012)

Have you tried to suggest a new position? If so how does she react? 

What is it that you are missing and would like to happen?---- have you been clear with her about want you want?


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Yes, she knows very well that I desire _more_ from our sex life. For the past few years I've been the sole initiator, many times being told NO. I also get told NO, or get really weird looks, when I suggest new positions, oral sex, sex games, etc. The ball is somewhat in her court at this point, and we've both agreed on that, as my ego simply can't take the continued rejection.


----------



## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Introduce some new toys into it. And a few new places where either of you haven't explored yet on each others bodies.


----------



## TrustInUs (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm sorry for your situation, I was going to suggest Sex games or bathtub games, those are a few things that helped me to be comfortable opening up more. Maybe you could try romantic games that aren't too racey but more of conversation starters to get the ball rolling.


----------



## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

monkeyboy said:


> Yes, she knows very well that I desire _more_ from our sex life. For the past few years I've been the sole initiator, many times being told NO. I also get told NO, or get really weird looks, when I suggest new positions, oral sex, sex games, etc. The ball is somewhat in her court at this point, and we've both agreed on that, as my ego simply can't take the continued rejection.


Well if she's done something, be encouraging. Even if it is just a different room. Otherwise you're basically waiting for her to suggest everything you've already wanted to do and then she can't win.

What has she said she might like to do? Could you take maybe the different location thing and work with that?


----------



## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

How to inspire an *attitude change *in another ...does not have any easy answers I'm afraid. She is Low Drive...her mind is less geared to go there, because she is not craving that sort of connection, not needing filled. It's very unfortunate...

What are her turn ons ? 

I would think working on the emotional connection in sex is the greatest thing one can do - with a lower driving spouse. They may not physically crave the ACT, but they'll still CRAVE the togetherness ...that so often leads to the







, if she just allows you to turn her on. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...allowing-our-partner-turn-us-love-making.html

The higher driver is always going to be more Creative sexually .... more erotic, and this is OK.. Expecting too much from the lower drive will only leave you frustrated. But seeking to see where she is willing to go ~ with you, to enjoy .....this is your cause. 

How you treat her outside of the bedroom will be huge here, your patience, and that *encouragement* even at the smallest suggestions... RUN with it, show your excitement at these things, this should inspire her to do this a little more often.... seeing how happy it makes her husband. 

So she is against Sex games? Have you tried a Board game... one can even scrap the board & just use the cards ... at your bedside... We have this one  Discover Your Lover Adult Board Game - Review - it will introduce many new things as you play along....with much learning/ sexual facts ...has like 300 cards...affectionate, intimate & passionate cards, & task cards.... 

Another poster said this once....>>>


> *Norajane said*: Feeling sexy means you're connected to the woman inside you - the woman who is about more than raising children and being a homemaker, the woman who is a sexual being.


 Sex starts inbetween the ears, it is a mindset... it is passion in action. SEXY a state of mind. It is in how one FEELS around their Lover... how they make us FEEL about ourselves, our bodies... .

Your wife Needs some inspiration ...something to stir her dopamine levels ...towards you. 







http://talkaboutmarriage.com/long-t...ping-dopamine-flowing-long-term-marriage.html









Compliments of "ThreeTimesAlady" (below)... we all need some inspiration once in a while to MOVE us , encourage us in this sexual mindset....this was written AFTER menopause -where her hormones were not as in flow as us younger ladies have in reserve....but yet you can FEEL the passion as she speaks...about her man, her marriage....about Love & Sex.... 




> *Sex is *desiring him every time you look at him. Needing him to fill that wonderful yearning deep inside you that needs filling & to die for. *Sex is *having breasts that ached to be touched & loved & you can not live without it.* Sex is* waking him up in the middle of the night as you need him & want him & then you find that he wants you just as much & you make love for an hour & get up & have coffee & wonder where the years have gone. *Sex is *finding the thrill after years of a man that can still make you scream & turn you to mush. *Sex is *turning him into a crazy man who wants you more than his own life.
> 
> Now. *Love is *being able to see some fault in your lover but shutting your mouth for the good of a marriage. *Love is *having to give & take in a marriage. Learning where to stop an argument when it is not important to win. Winning sometimes can be losing. *Love is *being able to find in that precious other the boy in the man that you fell in love when you 1st married. *Love is *being able to go to the sexiest side of you & turn that man into mush after all these years. *Love is *being able to hear from your lover that if you die first he will follow you as he cannot live without you . *Love is *the sunshine in the morning when it is cloudy out but seeing him next to you makes your world. *Love is *being able to say screwing & not being embarrassed plus any other really dirty word in the bedroom as he loves it. The dirtier the better as we all know that ladies do not talk dirty with those wonderful words but we also know as ladies that when we enter our bedroom to our precious that we leave the lady at the door. We then turn into his sex siren. As hot & as sensual as can be. And then we all know that when we leave that bedroom we again pick up the lady. All us ladies must have the two faces of Eve. This makes for a very very fullfilling marriage, full of intimacy and Love. A man would never stray if he had this.










....... Some good ideas here >> Secret to good sex is in your mind  .....


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

It's difficult because she's so LD that she's almost ND. Suggestions are right though that I need to be more supportive and nurturing when she does something fun with me like a location change. Those are good suggestions. Thank you!


----------



## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

****ing eh to all the guy who understand that a woman needs and desires to feel sexy, you feel sexy frisky you have sex.

Work on her mind. 

Last I felt like a sex goddess. I had it 5 times passed out in a heap, and we still stayed up way to late, woke up at six am and everything was right and beautiful and quiet in the world. 
It's funny how making love can alter your outlook the next day.


So yeah back to topic, work her mind , make her believe how incredibly sexy she is to you. Just thinking about being inside of her makes you wanna....


You get my drift
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Holland (Aug 20, 2012)

What Michie said.

I know how much my guy wants me, I know how sexy he thinks I am. I want to do it with him everyday and twice some days.

Got to say monkeyboy that sex once a week is not LD to ND. With all due respect could you be giving off a desperate or resentful vibe to your wife? My ex thought twice a year was acceptable, that is ND.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Holland said:


> What Michie said.
> 
> Got to say monkeyboy that sex once a week is not LD to ND. With all due respect could you be giving off a desperate or resentful vibe to your wife? My ex thought twice a year was acceptable, that is ND.


I've posted about it another thread, but it's probably worth mentioning here. She's done quite a bit of therapy for her sex avoidance, which is primarily related to a messed up upbringing and a rape during her college years. We started our relationship in a very sexually healthy manner, but it really deteriorated after we had kids, which is when all the details of her rape and childhood came out. We are basically starting at ground zero, with me trying to think of exciting ways to continue in our sex lives, with at the same time not treading into overly-sensitive areas with her. 

Yes, I was quite desperate and resentful for a while, but now I'm resigned to just not pushing the issue too much. She knows it's important to me, and I'm really trying to make it her issue and not mine. If she had her way, we'd live in a sexless marriage but full of love in other ways. She just doesn't fully understand yet the impossibility of that (unless, of course, someone has a physical disability that doesn't allow them to have sex). Anyway, there's a lot going on in her history that I'm trying to combat...:scratchhead:


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

By the way, when I indicated we were "sexually healthy" at the beginning, that means that we had fun & adventurous sex often; however, she was just going through the motions for my sake (she said so). She wanted me to be happy, and unfortunately my happiness, at least when it comes to sexual fulfillment, has taken a backseat these days.


----------



## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

Keep her in therapy and focus on her mind and sexual self image.

Marriage can be and mostly is a "long term investment".
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## discouraged1 (Mar 16, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> How to inspire an *attitude change *in another ...does not have any easy answers I'm afraid. She is Low Drive...her mind is less geared to go there, because she is not craving that sort of connection, not needing filled. It's very unfortunate...
> 
> What are her turn ons ?
> 
> ...


OMG!!! SO Right...:smthumbup::iagree:


----------



## oldgeezer (Sep 8, 2012)

monkeyboy said:


> Yes, she has commented that maybe we should change our location from time to time to try and "spice things up," instead of just the bedroom. We were on the couch last night, but still it was pretty vanilla and not too exciting. Just a different room.



Ok, well, I'll bet that "improving quality" means "improving her enjoyment". 

Now, you don't have to be "high drive" to enjoy it. I can't imagine anyone turning down a mind bending orgasm. The problem is that she's not getting it. Heck, even if you had little sex drive, the endorphin release after one of those is enough to want more. 

So, you're going to have to find ways to make sure it feels so danged good for her that she looks forward to it, rather than it being a chore with mildly pleasant side effects. 

I know three absolutely sure fire ways to get my W to the big O, big enough to make her collapse afterward breathing hard. If you don't know how to do that, then probably you need to start learning how.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

monkeyboy said:


> The ball is somewhat in her court at this point, and we've both agreed on that, as my ego simply can't take the continued rejection.


Big screw up on your part going this route. From the outside, it seems her goal is to stall on the variety aspect of your sex life. So, she varies in limited ways (the sofa instead of the bed is a good example) only.

So, your solution is to put her in charge of something that is not only unappealing to her (not necessarily difficult) but also she would avoid if given the chance. How is that supposed to get you the results you want?

Then, you told her your ego is damaged from the rejection and you'd sooner stop asking than push for change?:banghead: You need to separate your self-esteem from her rejection of you. You need to take more of an attitude of "it's your loss" with her on this issue.

If you let her rejection deflate and harm you like this, you have two problems:

1) You seem weak and whiny, and that is unappealing
2) She will know she can manipulate you if she is so inclined, and may bully you by playing on your feelings.

Toughen up and don't let this get swept under the rug if it is important to you.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

DTO said:


> Big screw up on your part going this route. From the outside, it seems her goal is to stall on the variety aspect of your sex life. So, she varies in limited ways (the sofa instead of the bed is a good example) only.
> 
> So, your solution is to put her in charge of something that is not only unappealing to her (not necessarily difficult) but also she would avoid if given the chance. How is that supposed to get you the results you want?
> 
> ...


Some great advice on this post so far, and I really think this is right (especially what *DTO* wrote). I've just started reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy," because I think I'm a classic example and need to start my recovery.

Here a brief history:
I was always a "nice guy." Lots of respect & love from girls, but rarely relationships that lasted, and many times blown off by the girls I really wanted because I was the "friend." Ugh!

When I hit my late 20's and got burned by one girl in particular I got pretty tired of the nice guy stuff and went out looking to fulfill my needs ONLY. I wasn't a total ********* or anything, but really wasn't looking into feelings, relationships, etc. That's when I met my wife. She wanted to get away from guys who were jerks, and I was somewhere in between the nice guy & the a-hole.

After a finishing up my career in a particularly unnerving profession, I found I was jaded & angry and went into counseling. I wasn't a very happy guy, and felt a lot of anger inside me. Ironically, our sex life was still pretty good. I found some peace through counseling and my faith This was good on many fronts, though it was also during this time that my wife started to disconnect from me sexually. She was also quite pregnant, so I figured some of it was due to that, but she never really recovered her sexuality.

A little over a year ago we had a talk that led to her telling me she's never really been sexual, had an orgasm, had a history or rape in college and her family was totally screwed up too (that I kind of knew, but not how totally dysfunctional & unloving they were). We entered into counseling and she had some fear that I'd divorce her, though I told her I NEVER would. I now think that saying I'd NEVER divorce her was probably a mistake. I didn't need to say that. She took that and ran with it (I think). Counseling was OK, but we are still dealing with her issue of sex avoidance. 

I really have not let on to her about my wounded feelings since counseling, but she probably still knows she holds that power against me. I'm desperate for good sex. She knows it and throws me a "bone" every now and then, but like I've said, it's pretty vanilla and boring. She thinks that's enough to shut me up/down for a while, but it's really not. The intimacy is really not there. I've tried explaining this whole thing to her, but honestly she just doesn't get it. It probably has much more to do at this point with my actions now than what I say to her. 

Like I said, I've just started reading NMMNG, so I'm hoping for some ideas in that, and after chapter once it looks _very very very_ promising! 

Here's my question, *DTO*: So, if I don't allow her to be in control of our sex lives and take that lead role back, what happens when I'm rejected totally or told "no" to a new position, oral, etc.? What do I do say/do? I don't want to be sad about it, and frankly that's usually not my feeling anyway. It's more like frustration and anger, but I don't think she needs to see that either. I'm also not asking you how I should feel, because you're right. I need to disconnected my self-esteem from her rejection, and that's something I can work on. But I would like some advice on what to _do_ in that situation. It's usually an "in the moment" thing, so I'm just wondering what my reaction should look like. I'm really trying to learn and improve my life here - I think I've been the cause of much of what is going on. Her history has some to do with it, but my "nice guy" behaviors certainly haven't helped. I think the pressure to keep our love alive should start to be on her, right???:scratchhead:

Also, I've read around here not to let on that you're reading NMMNG to your partner, but the book says to share it. I'm inclined to not even tell her and just starting changing. Thoughts on that???


----------



## kingsfan (Jun 4, 2012)

monkeyboy said:


> Any thoughts on how I can help my W be a bit more fun, sexy, adventurous, etc.? She is trying (i think) to be more diligent about having sex at least once per week (yes, that's an improvement), but, frankly, it can be a bit boring at times. I think she wants to improve quality, for my sake, but because she's LD I'm thinking she's finding that a bit of a challenge.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, some vanilla sex is better than no sex, but we used to ROCK IT so much more.
> 
> Ideas?:what:


Me and my fiancee are having the same discussion now as what you describe here.

While our frequency is much better (2-3 times a week, though sometimes once a week if I'm working my second job or there's a lot going on) the variety is at times lacking. I'm fortunate though, in that my fiancee seems to want to improve that after we talked about it and there has been some good change that way.

Have you actually talked to her about this? Sorry, I haven't read all the posts in this thread, so maybe you've answered that question already. If you have talked to her about it, what did you say?

I wouldn't approach it from the angle of saying "we used to be so much better..." rather, try something like "There's a few things I want to do in our sex life, and I look forward to having the chance to share those expereinces with you."

I know when me and my faincee had a talk about this issue three weeks ago, it at first didn't go over very good. Actually started out as her taking it the wrong way completely and thought I wasn't even attracted to her anymore. Took a lot of calm discussion on my part to get her to udnerstand that no, I do find her attractive, I just want to experience different things in our sex life. I didn't want to get into a rut of always doing the same position, or always at the same time of day (usually early evening), etc. I wanted to experience a little variety, a little spice, a little more enthusiasm. 

What I found helped with me was to take the discussion of opening things up from her angle. Yes, I expressed what I wanted, but I also pried a bit into what she wanted, and what she was open to trying. I found out she really likes lingerie for example (I knew she liked it, but I've since found out she REALLY likes it ) and the biggest reason she wasn't getting any is due to our financial situation (as I said above, I've taken on a part-time second job to help out with bills). I have since made her feel comfortable buying lingerie by telling her that we will be fine if she buys it, just don't go overboard (I handle the finances in the house, so she really had no idea if we had any money or not most times). Since then, she's purchased four items in the last couple of weeks, and I've been surprised with two of them... I'm told the other two are for Christmas   ... and she's picked out a lot more to buy and is encouraging me to show her what I like as well.

So maybe if you can find out what things you want to try that she's actually interested in as well, it could work for you. I'd advise not asking about anything that's well off from your 'vanilla' sex life. For example, if all you do is missionary position, I wouldn't recommend discussing getting into bondage or pegging. Go to far over the top right away and you're likely to do more harm than good to getting her to open up sexually. Baby steps.

I know for me I have more things I'd like to try than just lingerie and getting more frequent BJ's, but that's where we are at so far, and I'm perfectly fine with that. I plan on discussing other ideas with my fiancee as time goes on and if she's interested we can do it, if not that's ok. As long as she's interested in trying somethings, I'm fine with not getting everything. Like everything in marriage, it's a give and take. 

I think the thing that really stuck with my fiancee btw is that I told her that I am 35 and I'm not getting younger and I don't really want to look back on my sex life in 10-30 years and say "That's all I've ever done?" She's much more sexually experienced than I am, so i think for a lot of things she has the mindset of "been there, tried that" on somethings, especially things that she's tried and din't like or didn't really impress her. I don't know if it crossed her mind that I haven't tried a lot of those things and that I'd like to do so, even if it's something I end up not really liking.


----------



## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

monkeyboy said:


> By the way, when I indicated we were "sexually healthy" at the beginning, that means that we had fun & adventurous sex often; however, she was just going through the motions for my sake (she said so). She wanted me to be happy, and unfortunately my happiness, at least when it comes to sexual fulfillment, has taken a backseat these days.


Your wife, like mine and many others here on this forum will never find sex to be "all that". Even if they are willing to make concessions for our sake when we've been good and have earned our reward, we're always walking into the wind. It doesn't take much to fall back to the status quo or for the bar on "what have you done for me lately to earn Mr. Toad's Wild Ride" to be raised.

My fear is to win the battle and lose the war. Will you be happy getting what you want when you know that your wife is only going through the motions? If you're looking for someone who actually wants to be an active and engaged sexual partner, your wife is unlikely to EVER be that person. If instead you are willing to accept her willingness to meet your needs, I expect at best you'll find it is constant work on your part to keep enough good will at home to make it happen. 

What does she want from you that you are not inclined to want to do, but are willing to trade for a better sex life? What have you put on the table in fair trade, and have you made an explicit agreement to that effect?


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

monkeyboy said:


> Yes, she knows very well that I desire _more_ from our sex life. For the past few years I've been the sole initiator, many times being told NO. I also get told NO, or get really weird looks, when I suggest new positions, oral sex, sex games, etc. The ball is somewhat in her court at this point, and we've both agreed on that, as my ego simply can't take the continued rejection.


Monkey - your wife's repressed attitude towards sex is not a refection of you. Really, it is not. 

I know it feels that way but let me explain. My background made me very sex negative. 

I was raised in a devout Catholic household and attended Catholic school and had nuns not teachers. I had the trifecta for growing a sexually repressed adult and it worked. 

When I got married, I was hot hot hot for my husband. I trusted and loved him (still do BTW) but it did not stop me from being repressed. My attitude was no reflection on him though.

He understood my mind set because we had the same background. I think that helped him not to take it personally so much. 

He also took charge and did not back down but in a good way. 

How much do you know about her background in detail? Tailor your approach to take into account her negative experiences and the problems she articulated. 

She obviously has not had the peak experience if an orgasm and that is significant. Why not work on that. Read some books with her and make it a project to find out how she can have an orgasm. 

I think it is up to you. Even if you feel an ego blow can you pretend you don't and just forge ahead with an appearance of confidence? 

Don't think about details of exactly what you want your wife to do and say. Any improvement is a step to build on. Don't let the step crumbed by ignoring it. 

You know where you want to be but you are going to have to be creative and persistent about how to get there.

Sex on the couch was big! The fact that is was not exciting now is besides the point. I don't get why you were unhappy. This is the step I was talking about. 

Now what do you do? Keep at it try another place but consolidate the comfort in a new place first. 

Build on success, don't expect every thing to fall into place like magic. Incremental improvements that add up to big changes in time.


----------



## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

monkeyboy said:


> Here's my question, *DTO*: So, if I don't allow her to be in control of our sex lives and take that lead role back, what happens when I'm rejected totally or told "no" to a new position, oral, etc.? What do I do say/do? I don't want to be sad about it, and frankly that's usually not my feeling anyway. It's more like frustration and anger, but I don't think she needs to see that either. I'm also not asking you how I should feel, because you're right. I need to disconnected my self-esteem from her rejection, and that's something I can work on. But I would like some advice on what to _do_ in that situation. It's usually an "in the moment" thing, so I'm just wondering what my reaction should look like. I'm really trying to learn and improve my life here - I think I've been the cause of much of what is going on. Her history has some to do with it, but my "nice guy" behaviors certainly haven't helped. I think the pressure to keep our love alive should start to be on her, right???:scratchhead:
> 
> Also, I've read around here not to let on that you're reading NMMNG to your partner, but the book says to share it. I'm inclined to not even tell her and just starting changing. Thoughts on that???


Hi there,

First, whether you should tell your wife about NMMNG depends, IMO, on her mindset. If she would welcome a more assertive you, go for it. If, OTOH, you think she would resist your efforts at self improvement, I would keep it to yourself.

I feel the book simplisticly assumes the SO will be on board with the change process. Your wife might think the book teaches you to be an a-hole (it doesn't) or fear she will need to work harder as you learn to prioritize your needs (which is accurate). 

Look at it this way - the book suggests a support structure to confide in and keep you on track. Doesn't it make sense that, if a support structure is advisable, it is equally advisable to avoid situations where someone may tear you down?

Second, as far as how to deal with your wife, know you can't make her do anything. All you can do is enforce boundaries and encourage favorable behavior. I like the advice in _Passionate Marriage_, which is to push your wife to a "crucible".

This means you refuse to let the issue die. You consistently keep it on the front burner by noting failures to meet your need. She knows she is falling short. But, her comfort with this will disappear by you not "letting it slide". After a while she will either start meeting your need or will walk away. It's very unlikely that she will be able to confront her failure regularly.

The first catch to this is you must be able to confidently and calmly stand up to her. You, at this point, cannot tolerate the rejection as it is now. Imagine how it will be when you start applying serious pressure and threaten her comfort level. So, you have some work to do in terms of standing firm and not depending on her approval for your happiness.

The second catch to this is that, when pushed to a decision point, she may indeed decide to leave. Only you can decide whether this is important enough to risk your marriage. But, you need to "count the cost", so to speak, of this course of action.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

It's been a while for me to respond again on this thread, but now seems the time. So tonight, this happened:

I told my wife that I did not feel satisfied with our sex life. She responded with, "Well, what else is new!? I can never satisfy you!" I told her that was untrue, and that the first several years of our marriage, even after our first child, I was just fine and never complained. She said the fact that I bring this up makes her insecure and really not want to have sex with me because she's worried I'll be critiquing and scoring her, and that she's been "trying" lately with sex but now feels defeated by her efforts. I explained that I'm not telling her if she's "trying" or not (maybe she is on some level), only that I have unmet needs, and there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to honestly express my needs. She questioned if I just wanted more sex and thought that once per week was just fine. I clarified that it's really not about our quantity, but quality, and much of the time she's not even comfortable during sex - I can tell.

I told her we should be challenging ourselves at this point (8 years of marriage) to keep passion and intimacy alive. She said she didn't know what that looks like in my mind. I told her she does and I've already said it - that it's like our first few years of marriage (nothing weird, just excitement, comfort, oral sex, pleasuring one another, etc.). She said she didn't feel that way anymore and lots of women are like her, so she maybe she should just back to "faking." 

I told her to not bother "faking" interest in an intimate relationship with me, and instead maybe it would be better to just not have sex for a while until such time (if ever) we can feel passionate together again. She also said she feels like I'm just looking for reasons to divorce. I didn't respond to this. 

I'm typing a lot of stuff here, but truly I did not use a ton of words with her - I was careful not to do so. I also exhibited limited emotional reaction, even when she was breaking down in tears about how she is a failure in her job, vulnerable, etc. I showed absolutely no frustration or anger, that's for sure. At most, I only gave confusing looks when she'd bring up divorce, not knowing what I wanted, that I want sex every day, etc.


----------



## *LittleDeer* (Apr 19, 2012)

In your wife's mind she is trying.

What is your emotional connection like?

How is the rest of your relationship?

Does she nag you?

Do you notice her? really notice and pay attention to her?

If you want sex like the first few years are you the same husband as you were in the beginning?

Do you have children?

Is she resentful of anything?


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

*LittleDeer* said:


> In your wife's mind she is trying.
> 
> What is your emotional connection like?
> 
> ...


Thanks for you response. I'll answer your questions with 100% honesty.

We have a very good emotional and spiritual connection. I'm a great listener and am very involved. We talk a lot, have fun date nights, are great friends, etc.

She sometimes nags me about petty things, but nothing outside of typical stuff (e.g. I forget to put fabric softener in the laundry, I let one of the kids play video games instead of brushing her teeth first in the morning, etc.). Typical stuff, but nothing we "fight" about, and really the "nagging" is probably less than twice per week. I help out more than most husbands in the home.

We have 6 & 4-year-old.

In all honesty, and at the risk of sounding full of myself, I'm a better husband now than I was when we first got married. I accepted Christ into my life (she helped me find my way in that), I got rid of a lot of anger I held earlier in life, I do tons for our kids, I lead our family now more than before. 

I'm a recovering "nice guy," so I've done a lot to please her and comfort her over the years. To clarify, that doesn't mean I'm a jerk now instead of a nice guy, but it means that I don't do things with false internal pretenses or expectations. I cite my needs in pure and honest ways. That's all pretty new though and tonight was really the big display of that.

I notice her, yes. I tell her she's sexy, has a great body, say "I love you," enjoy cuddling up in front of the TV, etc. I probably initiate more "interest" in those areas than she does.

I think she resents that I'm dissatisfied with our sexual intimacy. This came to head about 18 months ago and we entered MC. From MC she entered individual counseling, at the recommendation of our MC. We hit a dead end with much of though about 7 or 8 months ago and just weren't moving forward anymore so we both decided to stop. I think she also resents that I brought this up in the first place and she "had to do" counseling. She's said as much.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

I almost forgot this. She also said that she didn't think she could ever meet my needs in this way. She gets to be a bit of a defeatist at times though, especially when faced with a personal challenge.

Then she said maybe I should just go out & get a hooker to get my needs met! Seriously? Sometimes I think she is just completely out of her mind!


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There was a poor young girl who had a peach orchard left to her by her mother. She was allergic to the fruit but tended them anyway even though she herself was hungry. 

She could eat cooked peaches but alas, she was too poor to purchase the extra firewood to cook them. There was a well-off young man who she liked very much. He loved peaches so she gladly let him pick as many as he liked but only on mondays. 

He paid her a few pennies for the privalege. One day, the young man came to the orchard in a foul mood and demanded to know why he was denied the fruits of her labors more than 1 day/wk. 

"This picking is hard work I need entertainment to distract me while I pick and a cool drink. Why do you deny me these comforts?" 

The young girl was agast, "you want more of my abundance? But it is painful enough to watch you eat of the fruits of my labors once a wk while I go hungry" 

She revealed that she could eat her peaches only if they were cooked. "i have not enough money for extra firewood". The young man looked at her in amazement. "I did not know that you longed for peaches as much as I." 

The next day he invited her to a feast of peach cobbler, duck with seared peaches, and many other delights. 

She was never poor or hungry again and he ate peaches to his hearts content. 

The moral - Give and ye shall receive. 

You may be asking a lot of your wife if she does not orgasm. It is not so much that she does not want to make you happy I think. She dosen't understand what the big deal is. 

She has never felt the fireworks you feel. I think your efforts will bear more fruit if you concetrate on helping her to enjoy her body and the delights therein. 

Try a sex therapist if you need professional services.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

The story is good, but not totally relevant to my situation. I go above & beyond to make our marriage loving & positive in all areas, and the vast majority of those have nothing to do with sex. They have to do with providing the love, support & leadership that my family needs.

My W has orgasms. I'm always sure to take care of that during foreplay, just in case it doesn't happen during intercourse. It is not that we have "bad sex" or that we don't have orgasms. It's that she is not excited or passionate about being together in that way. She has told me this, and said she believes that after being together for 10 years & having had sex hundreds of times that it's just not going to be the same quality.

That's the real bummer. She's already resigned herself to believe our best years of intimacy are behind us.


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

monkeyboy said:


> The story is good, but not totally relevant to my situation. I go above & beyond to make our marriage loving & positive in all areas, and the vast majority of those have nothing to do with sex. They have to do with providing the love, support & leadership that my family needs.
> 
> My W has orgasms. I'm always sure to take care of that during foreplay, just in case it doesn't happen during intercourse. It is not that we have "bad sex" or that we don't have orgasms. It's that she is not excited or passionate about being together in that way. She has told me this, and said she believes that after being together for 10 years & having had sex hundreds of times that it's just not going to be the same quality.
> 
> That's the real bummer. She's already resigned herself to believe our best years of intimacy are behind us.


Sorry, I thought you said your wife did not orgasm because of bad experiences. 

Her logic seems faulty to me. She believes that quality naturally decreases over time. Keeping it fun and stimulating is what you are attempting to do. 

What she revealed to you was actually good. You did not follow up though. In a sense, she was telling you that she too is bored so you are united on that point. 

Her solution is resignation yours is to attempt to grow. I think talking to her about your needs and unhappiness is counterproductive. 

Perhaps you should first acknowledge that her needs are as important to you as your own and that you heard her when she told that she is bored. 

Don't drop the ball, now that you have something to run with. Have a discussion about "our" needs. I think you should never talk about your needs without talking about hers as well. In that you emphasize how important she is to you.


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

Catherine602 said:


> Sorry, I thought you said your wife did not orgasm because of bad experiences.
> 
> Her logic seems faulty to me. She believes that quality naturally decrease over time. Keeping it fun and stimulating is what you are attempting to do.
> 
> ...


Truly, I'm not trying to be difficult, dismissive or negative, but I think I should respond with some specifics about the situation.

Yes, I, know her logic is faulty, but I can't change a persons logic. I only have the power to change what I do & say.

She was NOT telling me she is "bored," I can assure you of that. She was telling me again what she has been telling me for quite some time; That she doesn't _desire sex, though she does receive enjoyment when it happens. Sex (and my need for it) are just very low on her priority list. She will tell me that our marriage needs sex & intimacy to survive (she is educated about that), but then she will avoid it.

She has a history of issues with intimacy, sex, confidence, etc., which I have poured effort & love into. She is now avoiding those again too, and has been for quite a while, which is leading to tension & disconnection in our marriage. I can't fix all those things on my own without her investment. If she doesn't hear that it's a problem then she will continue to move along & nothing will change (except the dwindling of our affection).

I'm sorry, but I only think it is open, honest & fair of me to tell her of my needs. I didn't do it in an angry or even pathetic way. I just said what it was, internally hoping that she would absorb it on some level & understand that it is something that either she or we should work on. I have always put her needs on the table with mine/ours. It may come across differently here on a messageboard, but I'm not constantly hounding her about MY needs & for more & better sex. I don't think that the subject had even come up for the past couple of months, and even then it was more about US getting closer & not just my needs.

I have done TONS of listening to her needs & responding to those, I assure you. I will continue to do so too. I'm not avoiding her, ignoring her, or withholding love in any way. 

The title of this post may now be a bit misleading, as the situation & focus has changed. I still desire adventerous & exciting sex with her, of course, but before that happens I know that she is going to have to find some motivation to address her issues with intimacy, sexuality & whatever else is going on that she's not telling me. Maybe I am part of the problem as well, but she would have to bring that up too. She's never told me that I'm inattentive, cruel, unloving or anything of that nature, and if she did I would be willing to listen & adjust if need be, because that is love, respect & honor._


----------



## lovemylife (Feb 13, 2012)

Lou Paget has written two books that my H and I have found to be very informative. "How to be a great lover" and "how to give her absolute pleasure." There is really good information about techniques and ideas that may help to improve the quality of sex. 

After I read these books, my H and I spent time experimenting with many of the techniques and communicating to each other about our experience. It is helpful to try something and then ask the receiver to rate the experience on a scale of 1 to 10. 

The information that I got from the book and from our sessions trying it out, was invaluable for me. It gave me a lot more confidence in my own skills and added to my repertoire so I felt better about my ability to give my H pleasure. 

Another possible idea is these cards vow Search Results - that have a lot of specific ideas for those who may need a little help with inspiration. 

I think a fantasy box is a great idea as well. Before hand, each of you should agree that no judgements will be made about these ideas, no assumptions, and each idea is up for compromise if one is needed. Both partners should feel safe in sharing and in trying the idea. Each of you would put one idea on a piece of paper describing a secret fantasy, a position your like or would like to try, or a technique that you like or would like to try. Try to come up with at least 10 ideas from each of you to put into the box. (the vow cards have lots of ideas that would be good for the fantasy box)

Pick a day that will be your fantasy box day. You can each draw one of the ideas from the fantasy box and share it with your partner. If clarification is needed, you can ask questions or fill in more details. You can now decide which of the ideas you would like to try. (If the idea seems a bit too much for one partner, you can discuss ways that it can be modified a bit so both people are comfortable enough to try it out)

Communication is really key here. It is important to keep the way things are said in the positive. Instead of saying "there is no way I would do that" instead say "I am not sure that I am comfortable doing this, but maybe we could try...." If your partner is not doing something the way you would like, give them positive feedback by telling them something like "that is nice, lets try it slow and deep now and see how that feels."


----------



## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

I understand a little better than before I made those posts. I definitely don't consider your response as being difficult. In fact, I am grateful that you have taken the time and effort to clarify your situation. 

I was most impressed by the effort you have put in to staying connected to your wife. I wonder what she would do if you stopped making such a big effort. 

You have taken the responsibility of fixing her for such a long time that she may feel she does not need to do anything. Monkey will always be there. 

You are right about not being able to fix a person. How would you feel about taking it a step further and carefully considering how you will stop propping her up. If you think about it, you are crippling her I think. 

Instead, perhaps formulating a program of self improvement would work. Get IC to assist you in setting boundaries around what you can and cannot do to help. 

You are right about changing yourself. You can go as far as suggesting she get IC. Let her know that you will do what you can to assist her but you will put in as much effort as she puts in. 

I think you should pick up a hobby or an interest that is independent of her. As part of the new you, refresh your appearance with new clothes and a hair cut. 

You will feel better and it will kick off the changes that you mist make. What do you think?


----------



## Elk87 (Oct 8, 2012)

I will reply with more later, Catherine, but just know that your words warmed my heart. My heart really needs it too because it keeps skipping around from brokenness, to fear, to anger, to pain, etc. Thank you, and I like your suggestions. Again, more later...


----------

