# back pain alternatives



## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

My back pain between my shoulder blades down thru lower back at times has got to the point where it is affecting my quality of life. Should I go to a regular doctor or try a chiropractor. Several people where I work say chiropractors helped them. Opinions?


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## Oldrandwisr (Jun 22, 2013)

Just my opinion, I'm not a professional...I would use a medical doctor first who will rule out the source stemming from a different area of your body. The back is a common area for referred pain. Good luck for a fast recovery.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

The last time I saw doctor and mentioned back pain he said cortisone shots may help, I hear they are painful too.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Medical doctor. I also had back pain and people told me to see a chiropractor....ended up in the ER and was told I had a herniated disk. I had already suffered nerve damage by then and had to have surgery. A chiropractor definitely couldn't have helped in my situation.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Thanx for your input, last thing I want is surgery, but if necessary


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

See a Chiropractor NO meds No surgury

Generally it takes more than 1 surgical procedure. Chiropractors actually have more classroom time than an MD They are taught radiology unlike an MD

They don't push pills

55


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I think I will see a chiropractor first, coworkers say they helped them


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> See a Chiropractor NO meds No surgury
> 
> Generally it takes more than 1 surgical procedure. Chiropractors actually have more classroom time than an MD They are taught radiology unlike an MD
> 
> ...


Hmmm, I only had 1 surgery and that was 10yrs ago. The only med I was given was Prednisone (steroid) to help with the swelling.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> Hmmm, I only had 1 surgery and that was 10yrs ago. The only med I was given was Prednisone (steroid) to help with the swelling.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And may I ask your down time? Out of work?


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

rush said:


> And may I ask your down time? Out of work?


About 2 weeks.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Well I stated generally. I have a friend that has had no less than 6 surgery’s it's a case by case thing depending on the diagnosis

So once surgery has been performed It cannot be un performed

MD's are influenced by the INS and Pharmaceutical lobby who do not have your best interest in mind. Long term steroid use is in itself dangerous.

There is a reason that Chiropractors have significantly lower malpractice insurance rates.

They do less damage

So go the safer route sees a Chiropractor first

NO Down Time

55


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

not too bad, my back aches and feels weak, I just want it better. I would rather not be cut. chiro's are not insurance covered either. I have also been told they can be addictive.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

just got it 55 said:


> Well I stated generally. I have a friend that has had no less than 6 surgery’s it's a case by case thing depending on the diagnosis
> 
> So once surgery has been performed It cannot be un performed
> 
> ...


I was on steroids for 2 weeks tops before I had surgery. 

Yes, the "safer" route would be to see a chiropractor *BUT*, if OP's problem is* medica*l, a chiropractor can't do squat.

My baby sister also had to have surgery due to back/neck pain.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

rush said:


> not too bad, my back aches and feels weak, I just want it better. I would rather not be cut. chiro's are not insurance covered either. I have also been told they can be addictive.


Have you had a MRI to rule out anything medical?


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

around 7 or 8 years ago, may have been xrays, said disc problem then, it got better without anything, but now its aching a lot.


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Did they say you had degenerative disc disease?


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## MSP (Feb 9, 2012)

rush said:


> I have also been told they can be addictive.


Don't inhale.

Chiropractors are great if you find a good one. They're useless or worse if you find a crappy one. I've seen the gamut over the years and the two good chiropractors I've visited have greatly improved my quality of life. I put my back out very badly a few years ago and I occasionally get pretty bad pain if I am careless. My chiropractor makes it better again. I've been going for a few years and I relatively quickly got to the point where I only went every couple of months or so. 

So, ask around for recommendations for one who is worth seeing and if you don't get results from them within a couple of weeks at the most, switch. I prefer when they do the manual adjustments, rather than using the applicator tool, so you could ask about that. You'll possibly need a male chiropractor for the best results from manual adjustments, although I'm speculating.

Also, now that I've been going to the gym again, my back doesn't bother me as much, either. I've strengthened the muscles in the area around where it was weak and it doesn't get sore as often.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Most insurance plans cover 12 visits per year If more is needed than most Chiros will make payment plans to fit your needs.

This is part of the problem for Chiros .They do not have the support of the Insurance industry interestingly enough as the long term and associated cost are far less than medical procedures. No scripts for pain management no opportunity for risk of opiate addiction.

Makes one wonder no?

There are good and bad care givers in both disciplines 

True enough Chiropractors fight for legitimacy due to the reputation of scammers in the past. But they are clearly gaining a renewed level of competency as most all are now DC / DR

55


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> Did they say you had degenerative disc disease?


Its been so long I can't remember for sure, I went to work and before I even got there I could barely walk, went to doctor and got x ray or mri cannot remember, I had appointment with doctor next day in bigger city, it got better overnight, when I walked into doctors office they were shocked I was walking. I believe he said herniated disc and I was 1 in 100 that does not need surgery yet? So here I am.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

just got it 55 said:


> Most insurance plans cover 12 visits per year If more is needed than most Chiros will make payment plans to fit your needs.
> 
> This is part of the problem for Chiros .They do not have the support of the Insurance industry interestingly enough as the long term and associated cost are far less than medical procedures. No scripts for pain management no opportunity for risk of opiate addiction.
> 
> ...


My crappy insurance states it does not cover chiropractics, Coworkers said 3 or 4 visits costs a few hundred bucks. Not that bad.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

rush said:


> My crappy insurance states it does not cover chiropractics, Coworkers said 3 or 4 visits costs a few hundred bucks. Not that bad.


You would likely have that out of pocket in any case

55


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

That's true or more, I gotta do it.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Re-Post from – Tulsa Chiropractor | Schluter Chiropractic Tulsa Chiropractor | Schluter Chiropractic | Chiropractor Tulsa, by Dr. Jason Schluter
1. Pain is the last symptom of dysfunction.
A patient’s back is often restricted or unstable for months or years before it presents as a problem and they show up in a chiropractor’s office. In addition, the absence of pain is not health. You can take medication to cover up the symptoms and the pain goes away but the dysfunction that caused it still persists. Muscle, ligament and joint injuries often occur as a result of long-term bio-mechanical dysfunction, sometimes from past injuries, making the area more susceptible to future injury.
2. Athletes use chiropractors to stay well and perform better, not just for the occasional injury.
Athletes choose chiropractors because we are movement specialists. Chiropractors were spotted all over the Olympic coverage last year, and top athletes such as Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Michael Phelps, Tom Brady, Evander Holyfield, and Arnold Schwarzenegger have all been proud patients of chiropractors. These days it’s far more common than not for major athletes and sports teams to keep chiropractors on staff to help prevent injuries, speed injury recovery, improve balance and coordination, and give them a greater competitive edge.
3. The body does not perform as a cluster of separate mechanisms, but rather a cascade of events that all starts with proper control by the nervous system. The nerves that travel through and control every function of your body originate at the spinal cord and their transmission may be disrupted if the joints of the surrounding spinal column are not moving properly. This disruption in bio-mechanical integrity combined with altered physiological function is what chiropractors call a subluxation. Below is a chart that illustrates the relationship of the spinal nerves exiting the vertebra branching off to the various organ systems. You can see why it is not uncommon for a chiropractor to treat a patient with mid-back pain who also suffers from irritable bowel system, a patient with a subluxated sacrum who has been unsuccessfully trying to become pregnant, or a patient with an upper back fixation and acid reflux.















4. Doctors don’t do the healing. Sorry to disappoint you, but a chiropractor will never fix your back.
What we are able to do is restore proper motion in the joints, which relieves tension on the nerves and muscles and allows your body to do the healing that it is inherently made to do. As chiropractors, we believe that the body is a perfect organism in its natural state, and all disease comes from a disruption in the body’s proper transmission of signals by the nerves which affects its ability to heal and to defend against disease-causing agents. We never treat disease. We assess to find which spinal levels are causing the disfunction, and we adjust it to restore proper nerve flow so the nervous system may work as efficiently and effectively as possible.
5. Chiropractic is for all ages.
Many seniors aren’t aware of the benefits of chiropractic care which can help them not only with pain relief, but also increases range of motion, balance and coordination, and decrease joint degeneration. There’s no patient too young for chiropractic either! Chiropractors check infants moments after birth for misalignments of the upper vertebrae that may occur as a result of the birth process. In addition to supporting overall health and well-being, parents also take their children to chiropractors to encourage healthy brain and nervous system development, to assist with colic, asthma, allergies, bed-wetting and sleeping problems, and to assist with behavioral disorders.
6. We know about more than your backbone!
This surprises many people who had no idea that chiropractors give advice on nutrition, fitness, ergonomics and lifestyle, screen for conditions unrelated to the musculoskeletal system and refer out to other practitioners when necessary. Chiropractors are also able to complete specialties in other areas such as pediatrics, sports rehabilitation, neurology, clinical nutrition, and addictions and compulsive disorders.
Other than particular specialties and the differences in learning to adjust and learning to prescribe medication, our training hours are not dissimilar from that of a medical doctor. The following are the classroom hours for basic science requirements compiled and averaged following a review of curricula of 18 chiropractic schools and 22 medical schools.









7. Successful chiropractic patients accept responsibility.
When somebody says that they tried chiropractic and it didn’t help, I cringe and get the feeling that they really missed the boat. Of course, there are cases with complicating factors, but I have heard this from people with straightforward chiropractic problems when it is very clear what has happened here. In most cases, one doesn’t acquire back pain over night, and it’s not going to go away over night. If a weak core from years of sitting at your desk is to blame for the additional stress on your joints, I would expect an adjustment to provide relief, but once the condition is no longer exacerbated, I would most definitely prescribe some exercises for you to do at home. I might also suggest we evaluate your nutrition if I suspect an inflammatory diet may be wiring you for pain. Sure, I’m always happy to adjust someone and make a living, but if you’ve been given homework and you don’t do it, I better not hear you say chiropractic didn’t work when you’re hurting again!
8. Chiropractic may help you get sick less.
Chiropractic patients tend to get sick less. Studies have indicated that adjustments consistently reduce the production of pro-inflammatory mediators associated with tissue damage and pain, and may also enhance the production of immunoregulatory complexes important for healthy immune system defense. As far back as the deadly flu pandemic of 1917-1918, chiropractors noticed that their patients seemed to have fewer fatalities than among the general population and were able to publish their work in an osteopathic journal since no scholarly journals were accepting chiropractic data. The estimated death rate among patients of conventional medical care in the U.S. was estimated at 5 to 6 percent while the fatality rate among influenza cases receiving spinal adjustments was estimated at 0.25%. In a recent study done in the Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics it stated that after a chiropractic adjustment the body’s white blood cell count increases 48% within the following 24 to 48 hours!
9. “I heard I’ll have to go forever”.
This statement always amazes me. To me, this is just like saying, “I would go to the dentist but I know if I do I’ll just have to go forever”. It is true that many chiropractors recommend that you continue regular maintenance/preventive care but it is completely up to you. Many patients decide to quit care after they are symptom free. However, the greatest benefit from chiropractic typically comes when you don’t have symptoms. Just like the best time to see the dentist is before you get a cavity or tooth ache. Think of it as spinal hygiene instead of dental hygiene. Instead of occasionally getting checked for tartar buildup and cavities you are getting checked for subluxations in the spine.
10. Adjustments don’t hurt.
There is no bone snapping or warrior-style pulling heads off spinal columns! The neck adjustment some chiropractors use causes anticipation for many new patients, but is actually much more gentle than they imagined, and involves a quick, direct thrust to a specific spinal bone. The sound an adjustment makes is called a cavitation and is only space being created within the joint causing gasses to be released from the joint capsule, which creates the popping or cracking noise. Also, chiropractic adjustments will not wear out your joints, as some imagine because they have been warned not to “crack their knuckles” for this reason in the past. Adjustments, unlike “knuckle cracking” or having your friend stomp on you while you lay on the carpet, are applied specifically to improve the motion of your joints and limit the small dysfunctions that over time can lead to arthritis. Most people after an adjustment describe the feeling as being “lighter”, having greater ease in moving the body, and being able to stand up taller.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Dbl Post Sorry


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Interesting read for sure. I know it will only benefit me totry rather than go to my family doctor and get stabbed with cortisone, or surgery. I believe they do an x ray to see what you have too.


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

Yes X Ray & MRI

Full disclosure My Daughter is a Chiropractor


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

Well, that explains it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

yes but I do know 3 people that got relief from it, my doctor told me to get a brace which is useless imo. Or cortisone shots, temporary relief, or see another doctor


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

pidge70 said:


> Well, that explains it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Well get cut all you want .But it dosen't change the facts/opinions of experts. 

There is more than one way to treat than "traditional" western medicine

Only giving my opinion here take it leave it or whatever.

I am sure you can back up your opinion with thousands of botched surgerys

But for more full disclosure My other daughter reports directly to the Chief Of Neurology at Massachusetts General Hospital one of the worlds finest medical institutions known


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## Wiltshireman (Jan 23, 2013)

IMHO go to the MD first and see what they have to say / recommend.

I have used a chiropractor in the past (he was recommended by my GP) as I have two "Prolapsed Disks" in my lower back.

As much as possible I try and carry on with all aspects of normal life but when the pain level gets too high for oral pain killers I will take a muscle relaxant. I have been told by the hospital that I will at some point need surgery to remove the damaged disks / fuse the vertebrae but as that will affect my mobility I am leaving that as long as possible.

When I first had the problem I found the pain hard to deal with and ended up on Pethidine but that has its own problems if used long term. So for now I just “grin and bear it”. 

It is strange but you do become accustomed to the pain and I have learned to live with it.


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## Oldrandwisr (Jun 22, 2013)

I mentioned seeing an MD first to rule out kidneys, cardio, and other afflictions that manifest in back pain. Then, if it is diagnosed as local in your back, you can choose to postpone treatment of the cortisone shots if you want to give the chiropractor a try. The recent pain increase could be something in addition to what was diagnosed years ago and it would be good to rule out other possibilities first. A good MD will respect if you want to try other treatment options first.


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## Jamison (Feb 10, 2011)

Whichever is fine, they should take X-rays first anyway to found out what may or may not be going on. Later on after you have received treatment from either a medical doc or chiropractor, you might want to ask about the pain clinic if you are still hurting. However, I have had two different people I know of that has had back pain, one had surgery then went to the pain clinic and is still hurting sometimes. Another person I know, hasn't had back surgery and went to the pain clinic and still hurts too. Bottom line, I think there are many things out there that only provide temporary relief for a time being, period. I think it depends on the issue too.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

How old are you?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

After 20 years of back pain, two failed attempts with chiropractors and two failed attempts with physical therapy, I went to a back doctor and was diagnosed with osteoarthritis as well as herniated C disks. Constant pain in shoulder blades, neck and shoulders. She said chiropractor won't help, as the melded bones aren't going to suddenly un-meld. She said physical therapy can get my muscles to a strong enough place where they'll better support the frame (that's what I'm doing now) and that meds for the inflammation and spasm should be on hand for flareups, which I can expect from time to time.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Chiro, massage and acupuncture have all worked wonders for me and my almost 50 year old back!


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## just got it 55 (Mar 2, 2013)

My point really is like war. Surgury should be a last resort for treatment.

Keep an open mind.Great minds don't think alike great minds think for themselves.

55


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I am going to limp thru till my vacation march 3rd week, will post back...


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

Here's something you might think about and it does seem very obvious

I'm former tennis player /coach and it caused later problems for me (service action - many ex tennis players have back problems) 

17 years ago had big back problem went into back spasms incredibly painful cold literally not move off sofa for two weeks - (had to poo in a carrier bag!)

Anyway after MRI and xrays bottom three discs were 'dry' - bottom five vertabrae were randomly moving at will into nerves into bones the usual stuff with this condition

One chiro repaired it to perfection for half a day but I realized he just got lucky and he admitted that 

Part of my job as gigging musician was eventually affected as I had to stop lifting equipment 

Spent 10 years on meds which had side effects but it did keep the pain at bay
Eventually I cut down and put up with more pain.

Had the first bouts of cheating wife about 8 years ago split up and yes I lost weight I didn't realize it but it helped. 

Two years ago after final split I lost a stone and half in weight, obviously as a byproduct of the stress and mental pressure of the break up 

Within weeks of that I took my last regular dosage of pain killer

It clearly made a huge difference. I've had a couple of 'episodes' and taken the odd isolated painkiller to help me right then but effectively have not needed to take any as the lighter upper body weight has clearly helped in terms of pressure bearing down upon my lower back

Don't recommend the dealing with the rigours of infodelity ! but have to say losing the weight actually made my life different in terms of managing pain and interacting with my kids in all the way we want to

Lose a bit of weight! ( or actually quite a lot ) 

Any of you thought about that as a help?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Headspin said:


> Lose a bit of weight! ( or actually quite a lot )


AND...at the same time exercise regularly. In physical therapy, guess what I'm doing for my back? Strengthening the muscles (exercising) all along the spine.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I am only 154 lbs. I do excersize some, probly not enough


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

+ 12"


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I know


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

The truth is, unless you do manual labor for a living, you are out of shape and your muscles need work. So says 30,000 years of nomadic/working life.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

turnera said:


> The truth is, unless you do manual labor for a living, you are out of shape and your muscles need work. So says 30,000 years of nomadic/working life.


Trust me I do manual labor too, not always but a lot


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I am not the type to roll over and die, I keep fighting for it.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I am beaten down but still swinging,,,,,u should too


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

Go to an MD first. Chiro's have their place. But make sure it's not a true medical issue first. I had back pain that progressed to be absolutely debilitating at 25. Turned out it was a tumor on the spinal cord. No amount of manipulation in the world would have fixed that. And if I decided against an MD, I would be getting manipulated until one day I woke up and my legs wouldn't have worked. 

After the surgery I get occasional episodes of pain. Not as a result of the operation, as much as a result of nerve damage due to the tumor. The thing that helps the most for the bad ones is a course of steroids and Valium. Pain meds don't even begin to cut it, so I don't bother with them. I find it's better to stop the muscle spasms and treat the inflammation. 

For short term pain control a TENS unit is the best for me. The thing is a freaking miracle. It shuts down the pain signal at the nerves and almost totally relieves the pain. It's awesome.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

rush said:


> yes but I do know 3 people that got relief from it, my doctor told me to get a brace which is useless imo. Or cortisone shots, temporary relief, or see another doctor


A brace could actually make it worse.



rush said:


> I am not the type to roll over and die, I keep fighting for it.


Then you will probably be able to stick to a program that will get your body properly aligned. There is a book called Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain: Pete Egoscue, Roger Gittines: 9780553379884: Amazon.com: Books This is a fabulous book. I highly recommend it. This book changed my life. I was all messed up from my toes to my shoulders. I couldn't even lift my right arm. At one point I couldn't grip anything. I went to the chiropractor and he helped me a lot, but then I injured my shoulder. The chiropractor couldn't fix it and my doctor wanted to send me to physical therapy. I decided to try the exercises in Pain Free, since it was cheaper and didn't involve driving back and forth for therapy. It took a lot of time and effort, but I feel so much better than I have in years. It corrected my foot, knee, hip and shoulder problems. The book's introduction and first three chapters explain how and why it works. This is an excellent book. Most people could avoid surgery by following the instructions in the book. It's that good.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> A brace could actually make it worse.
> 
> 
> Then you will probably be able to stick to a program that will get your body properly aligned. There is a book called Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue Pain Free: A Revolutionary Method for Stopping Chronic Pain: Pete Egoscue, Roger Gittines: 9780553379884: Amazon.com: Books This is a fabulous book. I highly recommend it. This book changed my life. I was all messed up from my toes to my shoulders. I couldn't even lift my right arm. At one point I couldn't grip anything. I went to the chiropractor and he helped me a lot, but then I injured my shoulder. The chiropractor couldn't fix it and my doctor wanted to send me to physical therapy. I decided to try the exercises in Pain Free, since it was cheaper and didn't involve driving back and forth for therapy. It took a lot of time and effort, but I feel so much better than I have in years. It corrected my foot, knee, hip and shoulder problems. The book's introduction and first three chapters explain how and why it works. This is an excellent book. Most people could avoid surgery by following the instructions in the book. It's that good.


Please don't take this personally. Your advice may be spot on for the majority of Americans who are experiencing back pain due to being overweight, and other every day causes. But be careful when you recommend books like that instead of evaluation by an MD. If the back pain is determined to be a result of lifestyle factors, then the book is helpful. If it's the result of cancer your advice has real health repercussions for the person to whom you give advice, due to the fact that it may delay their treatment.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

mace85, Did I suggest he not go to the doctor? I think that's already been covered. I recommended he look into a book and try it. That is not the same as saying he shouldn't also go see a doctor. People are free to do more than one thing at a time.
Furthermore, the book, Pain Free, is not only for overweight people. It is for people who have pain that can be resolved through realigning their body. It is not for pain from nutritional deficiencies, cancer, or similar things.
My pain had nothing to do with being overweight.


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

CynthiaDe said:


> mace85, Did I suggest he not go to the doctor? I think that's already been covered. I recommended he look into a book and try it. That is not the same as saying he shouldn't also go see a doctor. People are free to do more than one thing at a time.
> Furthermore, the book, Pain Free, is not only for overweight people. It is for people who have pain that can be resolved through realigning their body. It is not for pain from nutritional deficiencies, cancer, or similar things.
> My pain had nothing to do with being overweight.



No. You didn't suggest the book replace the evaluation of a physician. But I am simply saying that some people will use that in place of an evaluation. 

People are free to do as many things to handle their issues as they wish. I don't disagree. I am just putting a finer point on it. Investigate alternate treatments once big and scary diseases have been ruled out. 

I can't speak to the effectiveness of the book, or your specific issues. I simply stated that excess weight, a common problem many, including myself, in America deal with is a cause of back pain. I did not mean to imply that your pain was caused by obesity. And there is a very narrow difference between realignment of the spine and strengthening of the core muscles that form the "internal girdle" supporting the spine. Generally that's what physical therapy does, without outright calling it strength training.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

An MD isn't immediately going to suspect cancer or some other malignant pathology. The patient presents with musculoskeletal back pain? Nine times out of 10 he walks out with a prescription for NSAIDS, muscle relaxers, and pain pills. Sometimes he/she will be referred to physical therapy.

Chiropractors receive extensive training in viscerosomatic referred pain. More than MD's and DO's. They are more likely the ones who will discover something "bad", like a tumor or disc lesion, which has been missed by an MD. Chiropractors are primary care providers, which means they must be able to differentially diagnose and refer to a specialist when appropriate. They also can order MRI's, CT scans, x-rays, and many other diagnostics. 

If I have a tooth problem, I go to the dentist...not MD. If I have a foot problem, I go to the Podiatrist....not MD. If I have a back problem, I start at the Chiropractor.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

ThreeStrikes said:


> An MD isn't immediately going to suspect cancer or some other malignant pathology. The patient presents with musculoskeletal back pain? Nine times out of 10 he walks out with a prescription for NSAIDS, muscle relaxers, and pain pills. Sometimes he/she will be referred to physical therapy.
> 
> Chiropractors receive extensive training in viscerosomatic referred pain. More than MD's and DO's. They are more likely the ones who will discover something "bad", like a tumor or disc lesion, which has been missed by an MD. Chiropractors are primary care providers, which means they must be able to differentially diagnose and refer to a specialist when appropriate. They also can order MRI's, CT scans, x-rays, and many other diagnostics.
> 
> If I have a tooth problem, I go to the dentist...not MD. If I have a foot problem, I go to the Podiatrist....not MD. If I have a back problem, I start at the Chiropractor.


Agreed on doctor just blowing it off, has to be repeat visits, I am goin to md march 3 week


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## mace85 (Mar 12, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> An MD isn't immediately going to suspect cancer or some other malignant pathology. The patient presents with musculoskeletal back pain? Nine times out of 10 he walks out with a prescription for NSAIDS, muscle relaxers, and pain pills. Sometimes he/she will be referred to physical therapy.
> 
> Chiropractors receive extensive training in viscerosomatic referred pain. More than MD's and DO's. They are more likely the ones who will discover something "bad", like a tumor or disc lesion, which has been missed by an MD. Chiropractors are primary care providers, which means they must be able to differentially diagnose and refer to a specialist when appropriate. They also can order MRI's, CT scans, x-rays, and many other diagnostics.
> 
> If I have a tooth problem, I go to the dentist...not MD. If I have a foot problem, I go to the Podiatrist....not MD. If I have a back problem, I start at the Chiropractor.


Exactly, 99 times out of 100, they're getting NSAIDS and muscle relaxers. Any serious disease is usually caught due to a series of visits leading to more and more detailed diagnostics. My statement stems from the fact that chiropractors vary in their standards just as widely as any other provider. This threads biggest proponent of chiropractic medicine even stated they had to fight for their legitimacy in the medical community because of their past. The fact of the matter is their education is more extensive now than it has been. But there are still bad providers, with subpar education still out there hanging a shingle outside of the local quick mart. I am not saying chiropractors have no place in medicine, I am saying they are not all up to current standards. Maybe in a generation, when the older crop have retired my opinion will be different. I also know my insurance will not honor the order of a chiropractor for expensive imaging such as an MRI. So, what would I have to do? See a chiropractor, and then see my MD to get the order rewritten. 

If you have a tooth problem, of course you go to a dentist. That's to even in the same conversation, but I get your analogy. 

If your foot hurts, you go to a podiatrist, such as an MD or DO. But not everyone has that luxury. Most people, on most health plans, have to use their primary care MD as the "gatekeeper" to specialists such as that. 

I am not going to argue that a person has to do anything. I am speaking from my experiences as a patient and as a person who has worked in healthcare.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

mace85 said:


> This threads biggest proponent of chiropractic medicine even stated they had to fight for their legitimacy in the medical community because of their past. .


This is a common misconception. The reason that chiropractic medicine had to fight for their legitimacy was due to a plot by the AMA to make them out to be quacks and to destroy the practice of chiropractic medicine. Wilk v. American Medical Ass'n, 671 F. Supp. 1465, N.D. Ill. 1987 This was upheld on appeal. Wilk v. American Medical Ass'n,895 F.2d 352, 7th Cir. 1990


mace85 said:


> But there are still bad providers, with subpar education still out there hanging a shingle outside of the local quick mart. I am not saying chiropractors have no place in medicine, I am saying they are not all up to current standards. Maybe in a generation, when the older crop have retired my opinion will be different. .


This is not true any more true of chiropractors as it is of any other doctor. You are clearly showing a bias here against chiropractic that is unwarranted. 


mace85 said:


> If you have a tooth problem, of course you go to a dentist. That's to even in the same conversation, but I get your analogy.


 Right and many people in our these days go to a chiropractor if they have a musculoskeletal problem.


mace85 said:


> If your foot hurts, you go to a podiatrist, such as an MD or DO. But not everyone has that luxury. Most people, on most health plans, have to use their primary care MD as the "gatekeeper" to specialists such as that.


 Thankfully this is changing. I don’t even need a referral to an OB anymore and certainly not to my chiropractor.
My chiropractor is board certified by the International Academy of Chiropractic Neurology as a chiropractic neurologist. My son had some weird thing going on that the primary doctor, the pediatrician and the neurologist could not figure out. I took my son to the chiropractor and he corrected my son’s issue in one visit.
It seems to me that going to a well-respected chiropractor and getting checked out would be better than going to the MD first. The chiropractor would know if it wasn’t a musculoskeletal problem and would let the patient know. This would be faster and probably more useful than going back and forth to the doctor getting a bunch of pills before actually finding out what the problem is. Chiropractors are specialized in musculoskeletal issues, MDs are not. Better to go the one who can determine if it is or is not musculoskeletal first to get to the bottom of the issue right away rather than fooling around with it. I am biased because my chiropractor saved us (and our insurance company) thousands of dollars in medical bills. I was able to cancel some extremely expensive tests when my son’s problem was completely explained and resolved by our very competent chiropractor. I took my son back to the neurologist for our follow-up to let him know what happened and even he (the neurologist) wanted to know our chiropractor’s name and phone number so he could learn something about what had been done.
In the meantime (not instead), I’d buy Pain Free and get reading it, then doing some exercises. Lol
I don’t want this to feel like an argument, Mace, I simply do not come from the perspective that MDs are the be all and end all of proper treatment. We have use whatever resources we believe are best for each of us. The older I get, the less that is my MD.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

I just want it to stop hurting, I am only 55


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

rush said:


> I just want it to stop hurting, I am only 55


See the chiropractor and read the book Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue. You can get well. I am 49. I thought I was living a healthy lifestyle, no artifical foods, very little processed foods, and I ate whole foods, etc. Over the last two years, I have made major changes to my diet and lifestyle, including reading Pain Free and doing the exercises and I feel 15 years younger. In some ways, I feel better than I have since I can ever remember. My energy has improved and I have zero pain.
Do not give up! You can get well. You can greatly improve by learning how to care for your body.
The main things I've done:
Eat tons of vegetables
Cut back on grains to almost nothing
Stopped drinking coffee (because I have so much energy from drinking green smoothies in the morning)
Cut out cow's milk and gluten
Started a regular exercise program (which I stopped while doing the Pain Free exercises when I injured by shoulder)


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

CynthiaDe said:


> See the chiropractor and read the book Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue. You can get well. I am 49. I thought I was living a healthy lifestyle, no artifical foods, very little processed foods, and I ate whole foods, etc. Over the last two years, I have made major changes to my diet and lifestyle, including reading Pain Free and doing the exercises and I feel 15 years younger. In some ways, I feel better than I have since I can ever remember. My energy has improved and I have zero pain.
> Do not give up! You can get well. You can greatly improve by learning how to care for your body.
> The main things I've done:
> Eat tons of vegetables
> ...


I am sure you are right, you are an inspiration


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Family doctor today, muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatory drugs, he suggested I get physical therapy and I have a doctors order for that, he thinks I need to build the muscles in my back up, his opinion on chiropractors was mixed, good for some things and not so good for others,,,,here I sit.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

rush said:


> Family doctor today, muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatory drugs, he suggested I get physical therapy and I have a doctors order for that, he thinks I need to build the muscles in my back up, his opinion on chiropractors was mixed, good for some things and not so good for others,,,,here I sit.


Have you checked out Pain Free? It could give you a lot of information in which to make an informed decision about how to proceed. Here's my review on it: Pain Free, by Pete Egoscue: A Review | The Feminine Review: Homemaking, Family and the World


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

Book looks interesting yes, my insurance will cover the therapy so I will probably try that first, doc said chiropractor alignment sounds fishy cause how do you get out of alignment? And all the popping in the joints they do cannot be good for you.


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## ThreeStrikes (Aug 11, 2012)

Your doc is a knuckle-head. Chiropractic care is covered by nearly all insurances, including Medicare! Would they do that if it was "fishy"?

Your MD did exactly as I predicted. The "check engine" light came on, and rather than find the cause, he put some duct tape over the light so you won't see it. Bravo!

And 2ntuf, Chiropractors is not dangerous. They have extremely low malpractice rates because they do not hurt/harm people.

On the contrary, conventional medicine is one of the leading causes (varies between #1 and #3) of death in the US.

Conventional Medicine is the Leading Cause of Death » DrAxe.com

Good luck to you!


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

ThreeStrikes said:


> Your doc is a knuckle-head. Chiropractic care is covered by nearly all insurances, including Medicare! Would they do that if it was "fishy"?
> 
> Your MD did exactly as I predicted. The "check engine" light came on, and rather than find the cause, he put some duct tape over the light so you won't see it. Bravo!
> 
> ...


Whoa there! I said that messing with backs is what is dangerous. Check into how many doctors have been sued for malpractice because of back issues. 

I have no issues with chiropractors. I think the md's are gunshy.

You read a little into what I wrote. Sorry you did that.


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## rush (Mar 29, 2013)

2ntnuf said:


> Whoa there! I said that messing with backs is what is dangerous. Check into how many doctors have been sued for malpractice because of back issues.
> 
> I have no issues with chiropractors. I think the md's are gunshy.
> 
> You read a little into what I wrote. Sorry you did that.


Agree with you all, everytime I go to the doctor I know what he is going to say or do usually, and he always says if it does not go away come back and see me again, and my insurance does not cover chiro's


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## pidge70 (Jan 17, 2011)

My opinion of chiropractors is that they can apparently "cure" everything. In my situation, I had to have surgery for my back, a chiropractor could not have fixed me.

Also, chiropractors can apparently end migraines right? Well, I had migraine issues and if I had went to a chiropractor instead of a MD, I would be dead. My "migraine" was caused by a subdural hematoma. I had to have a craniotomy. The way some people talk on here, I guess my doctor just wanted some of my money.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

pidge70 said:


> My opinion of chiropractors is that they can apparently "cure" everything. In my situation, I had to have surgery for my back, a chiropractor could not have fixed me.
> 
> Also, chiropractors can apparently end migraines right? Well, I had migraine issues and if I had went to a chiropractor instead of a MD, I would be dead. My "migraine" was caused by a subdural hematoma. I had to have a craniotomy. The way some people talk on here, I guess my doctor just wanted some of my money.


It depends on the issue. If it's musculoskeletal, I would always go to the chiropractor first.
It is good you found the cause of the migraine. There are so many things that can cause a migraine from magnesium deficiency to head trauma to subdural hematoma and the list goes on. I've known a lot of people with migraines, including myself, that the doctor could not identify a cause for. One friend of mine had them for years before a doctor found that it was related to a heart defect.


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## marriedandlonely (Nov 7, 2011)

Just a word of caution I had back pain 30 odd years back and went to chiro and the day after the only way I could get around was to crawl it was hell using the loo when I went back and told her what had happened she had me go and have some xrays done (a twist ct and a discogram)and when I brought them back with the results her partner said she wouldn't touch me (there was a herniated disc at t4-5


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## Mr The Other (Feb 1, 2014)

So, the advice is to see an MD as we have to find out what the issue is. 

I can personally recommend osteopath physio, which is pretty much chiro with patience and time. The other thing that has not been mentioned is yoga. The two made a huge difference.

My background was a man in his late thirties, who was in good shape. A small man playing a good level of rugby had taken quite a toll. I have also been in chronic pain for about fifteen years, but assumed it was the aches of age and life. It meant I struggled to get into a bath, turn my head to the right any distance. Since then, I am as flexible as an office worker my age (a huge advance for me) and have grown at least an inch taller.

However, the issues were muscle and tendons rather than anything else.


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