# wife will not kiss me and other intimate issues



## dermking (5 mo ago)

Hello all. First post. Trying to figure if i should be worried about a few trends in our intimate moments. 

First my wife will not kiss me. My wife of 32 years and i used to kiss regularly. Good sensual, not sloppy, kisses. She only kisses me now if i hold her tight and she puckers up hard lipped and pecks my lips and moves on. She will NOT kiss me any other way or time. Not even while having sex. Absolutely no kisses. Refuses. 

There is a lack of sexual interest in me. Being flirty does not work and i have to deliberately ask for sex. She will not have sex any other way, but facing away from me. No other positions. When i ask, she ignores me until she goes to bed. Then she says, "well, are you coming?". She rolls on her side facing away. 

Our 32nd anniversary, we went to a very high end restaurant and i thought had a happy fun night. Get home, she goes to sleep. A few months later, we went on another date. Same ending. Fun night, but straight to sleep. We went to a recent concert. FANTASTIC time, nothing when we got home. She rarely tells me no, but will not initiate sex in any way. We have relations a couple times a month, but it seems like it is a job to her. I get it that we aren't 25 years old and we have lives, but i dont get the same house estrangement. 

Kissing is a sign of comfort, attraction and you like someone.

Facing away from me seems to be a way of distancing herself. 

No obvious evidence of infidelity, but something is not right.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

dermking said:


> Hello all. First post. Trying to figure if i should be worried about a few trends in our intimate moments.
> 
> First my wife will not kiss me. My wife of 32 years and i used to kiss regularly. Good sensual, not sloppy, kisses. She only kisses me now if i hold her tight and she puckers up hard lipped and pecks my lips and moves on. She will NOT kiss me any other way or time. Not even while having sex. Absolutely no kisses. Refuses.
> 
> ...


She's not into having sex, obviously. How old were you both when it got this way? Was she into sex when you were both younger?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Ok, so your wife is clearly not attracted to you and is not in love with you and doesn’t respect you.

What has changed about you? 
Have you gained significant weight, gotten sloppy on hygiene? 
Have you become passive and not a strong, confident leader in your marriage?

Also, this is common with affairs, do not discount that possibility. Many have come here sayings it couldn’t be an affair, only to learn otherwise upon investigation.

Why haven’t you pushed her on explaining the issues?
Why won’t she kiss you? 
Why won’t she face you during sex?

Sit her down and tell her that affection and sexual intimacy are an essential part of marriage and a core expectation for your marriage.
Ask her why she is so averse to intimacy with you. Insist on an answer and don’t allow her to avoid the conversation.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Was this a gradual thing or quite sudden? Was it recent? Has anything happened that may have caused it? 
Illness? Bad menopause? One of you cheating in someway?


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## BeyondRepair007 (Nov 4, 2021)

How old are you and your wife?
Any kids? How old? When did they leave the home?

What’s your work like? Does your wife work too?


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Sounds like a roommate to me. I wouldn’t accept that. Too many women out there that like intimacy. That will be found riding you in the middle of the night when you wake up


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## dermking (5 mo ago)

We are in our early 50's

This behavior started 4 years ago, fairly abruptly. Just after finding $40,000 worth of credit card bills she was hiding. This was the same time my mom died, i was the executor and found my siblings were stealing. I was in a bit of a rut for a while.

2 kids, grown out of college.

I am 6', 200lb, 34 waist, i jog, hike, lift weights, kayak, active, but a bit of a belly could lose 10-15 lbs, well groomed. Women flirt with me often. I usually play dumb. Personality, i am a hard ass and a bit blunt. 

We had a fun healthy sex life until this. Never a porn movie sex life, but i was happy. During the 50 shades of gray years, she was into every thing.

Every 4-6 weeks, she wants me to go down on her until she orgasms. Afterwards, she rolls over and doesnt want face to face sex. This is recent behavior. The going down request started after i called her out about some odd behavior this year.

She doesnt want me going to her work. She never goes to lunch with me.

Protects her phone, changes the password a lot. Guys i dont know on her face book account. She has explanations for all of it. Without some damning evidence, it is suspicious only. She never goes anywhere. Unless she is meeting someone on a dirt road during trips to walmart, i dont know. Because of her need for going down on her, it could be a girlfriend. That sounds more like my fantasy than hers. She has always been negative about lesbians.

I feel she is hiding something, but she knows i have no proof and no leverage to get her to talk. She says she does not want to divorce. She is addiment about that. It could be more charge cards. I check her Kredit Karma occasionally with no extra charges found.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If she guards her phone and won’t see you at work or have lunch with you, she has a work husband. But who cares? She doesn’t love you, and lots of other women would.

it was really nice of her to let you go down on her 😞😖
Cringeworthy

you really should start doing what you want to do and being who you want to be.
It’s ok to cut her loose and find a happier life. 

it’s also ok to visit your wife at work and ask to see her phone and ask for the password. Or go see where she is at lunch. Or put a VAR in her car—— before you divorce her for being an unfit wife.

sometimes a woman will stay with a man she no longer lives out of convenience, and the man stays because he still loves her and hopes the person he loved will return. They really don’t. What you’re seeing is who she is, If that not good enough, you have to make changes.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Yikes. It doesn’t sound great. There’s more wrong here than some kissing. I’m so sorry.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

On the kissing issue: bad breath, possibly? That can be caused by dental issues, and/or by diet (keto diet comes to mind specifically). I'd be surprised if that's it and she simply doesn't want to say it, but stranger things happen.

Anyway, the other behaviors are more telling and concerning, and you need to investigate quietly. Or just call it quits.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

You need the standard evidence gathering list. Something stinks here and I'm afraid it is not your breath.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Evinrude58 said:


> That will be found riding you in the middle of the night when you wake up


As long as you never marry them.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

dermking said:


> Every 4-6 weeks, she wants me to go down on her until she orgasms.


Well, one good thing at least.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

dermking said:


> She doesnt want me going to her work. She never goes to lunch with me.
> 
> Protects her phone, changes the password a lot. Guys i dont know on her face book account. She has explanations for all of it. Without some damning evidence, it is suspicious only. She never goes anywhere. Unless she is meeting someone on a dirt road during trips to walmart, i dont know.
> 
> I feel she is hiding something, but she knows i have no proof and no leverage to get her to talk.


Obviously she’s hiding things, and it’s not credit cards. And it’s not another woman.

Based on what you’ve written so far, 99.999% she is behaving inappropriately online. Not saying she is definitely betraying you physically or having an affair (maybe maybe not) but she is absolutely engaged in something inappropriate.

Why don’t you have access to her phone and social media accounts?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, one good thing at least.


An attempt at humor I presume?

In the midst of everything OP described, the fact that she “lets” him go down on her every month or two before turning away from him again hardly qualifies as a positive.


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Well, one good thing at least.


She is using him like a vibrator


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## Welsh15 (Feb 24, 2014)

dermking said:


> We are in our early 50's
> 
> This behavior started 4 years ago, fairly abruptly. Just after finding $40,000 worth of credit card bills she was hiding. This was the same time my mom died, i was the executor and found my siblings were stealing. I was in a bit of a rut for a while.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure this an affair. My wife exhibited similar behavior as it related to phone etc, and it turned out she was meeting some guy in her car for "visits" for 3 years... Don't discount the trips to Walmart... put a GPS tracker on her car and maybe a VAR in the car as well


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

dermking said:


> she knows i have no proof and no leverage to get her to talk. She says she does not want to divorce. She is addiment about that. It could be more charge cards


Why is she in charge of whether you divorce? Marriage is two people, not just one. What do you mean, no leverage? You’re her husband. You have every right to know if she’s being unfaithful. Look, often on here there’s a knee jerk response to any little thing any woman does that “she’s cheating, all women cheat!” But in your case, these are some pretty serious red flags. You deserve better than this, don’t put up with another moment of this garbage.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Go online and check your phone bill. It’s a quick and easy check.


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## dermking (5 mo ago)

I let the cat out of the bag last year about my suspicions. She changed all her habits. She has cleaned up all her social media. Never gets on any social media other than tik tok around me. 

Most of the money on the credit cards were at hobby lobby, home goods and the like. The kind of stuff to decorate a house. Not guy decorations. However, this house never saw any of the nick nacks or decorations.

I think work husband or work wife. Maybe not even sexual, but maybe emotional. 

ATT usage shows no unusual numbers, some extra data during work hours. Before i opened my mouth, there were numbers i didnt know and i never investigated. 

Hell, it could be that she just isnt in love with me anymore, but is comfortable and just wants to grow old. A few weeks ago she told me i was her "companion".


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

I’m sorry you’re going through this  Could be that she’s having emotional affairs and she’s distracted. Hard to entirely say.

If it stays this way, would you be happy remaining in the marriage?


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

Maybe sex isn’t a priority for her anymore.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

EB123 said:


> Maybe sex isn’t a priority for her anymore.


Maybe, but sex and intimacy is a core component of marriage, and one spouse doesn’t get to unilaterally remove it from the marriage. 
And if they do, then the other spouse needs to reevaluate and adjust their level of investment/commitment to remain in that marriage.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

The lack of kissing/her desire not to kiss you tells me she doesn’t view you as an intimate partner or one she feels close too. Same with not wanting to face you during sex. 

Totally feel for you on that front; my wife had stopped kissing me and wanting sex too.


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

DudeInProgress said:


> Maybe, but sex and intimacy is a core component of marriage, and one spouse doesn’t get to unilaterally remove it from the marriage.
> And if they do, then the other spouse needs to reevaluate and adjust their level of investment/commitment to remain in that marriage.


I agree. If that’s the situation then the OP will have to decide whether he wants to stay in the marriage or not.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Life is too short to just have a “companion”. That is exactly what the OP feels he is— an asexual roommate who she has no romantic interest in but is nice to have around to kill spiders and fix the plumbing. He’s getting duty sex and she can’t even look at him.

OP, what’s the big loss if you dump the load?


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## EB123 (Jan 9, 2022)

The OP doesn’t want duty sex and I understand that. But maybe the woman doesn’t feel appreciated either and that’s a mood killer in itself. The OP will have to decide for himself what he can take and what he can’t. But y’all know, men are always thinking about sex. A man's idea of love is get it out, get it up, get it in, get it off. There is more to a relationship than just sex.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

dermking said:


> A few weeks ago she told me i was her "companion".


this is saying a lot she sees you as a companion but there is more 
first You paid off 40k for things you never saw, 
Are you mad , 

you need to ask where did this stuff go , sister mother no matter your out 40k 

Then as others have pointed out when you had sex it was not face to face EVER 
Sounds like she has an on line lover , or a work lover ,


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Evinrude58 said:


> Life is too short to just have a “companion”. That is exactly what the OP feels he is— an asexual roommate who she has no romantic interest in but is nice to have around to kill spiders and fix the plumbing. He’s getting duty sex and she can’t even look at him.
> 
> OP, what’s the big loss if you dump the load?


she just wants him to pay off her CC and be her companion like a dog or cat


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

the guy needs to get her into MC or be honest to himself and get a Divorce


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

She "retired"....The factory closed. 

So at this point all that's left for you to do is either divorce her, stay in the same crap you are in right now, or stay and decide how you are going to get what you need on the street. I'm not advocating any of these options, just trying to lay it out for you. She won't come around. Consider that ship sailed and sunk out at sea.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> An attempt at humor I presume?
> 
> In the midst of everything OP described, the fact that she “lets” him go down on her every month or two before turning away from him again hardly qualifies as a positive.


Nope humor at all. 

Maybe thats the only thing he can see as positive?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

DudeInProgress said:


> Maybe, but sex and intimacy is a core component of marriage, and one spouse doesn’t get to unilaterally remove it from the marriage.
> And if they do, then the other spouse needs to reevaluate and adjust their level of investment/commitment to remain in that marriage.


Sure you can say that but many spouses do. Why do you think forums like this exist???

So yeah his only real option is divorce but this is not an uncommon problem.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Nope humor at all.
> 
> I see that as a positive as my wife doesn't let me go down there. So sure maybe he is being used but at least he gets to give oral.


I could be wrong, but I didn’t get the impression that your wife is anywhere near the level of sexual / intimacy / affection aversion to you as OPs wife has for him. 
So occasional outbound oral or not, I don’t think you’d want to trade places with him.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

dermking said:


> She will NOT kiss me any other way or time. Not even while having sex. Absolutely no kisses. Refuses.


 duty sex like an old escort girl


dermking said:


> There is a lack of sexual interest in me. Being flirty does not work and i have to deliberately ask for sex. She will not have sex any other way, but facing away from me. No other positions. When i ask, she ignores me until she goes to bed. Then she says, "well, are you coming?". She rolls on her side facing away.


HARD DUTY sex


dermking said:


> This behavior started 4 years ago, fairly abruptly. Just after finding $40,000 worth of credit card bills she was hiding.


you need to find this stuff 40k did it go to the kids homes 


dermking said:


> I am 6', 200lb, 34 waist, i jog, hike, lift weights, kayak, active, but a bit of a belly could lose 10-15 lbs, well groomed. Women flirt with me often.


 dad body nothing wrong with that and the other women fall for it and if he pay my 40k off I would have sex with him turned away from him lol 
She just wants a cat that will rub his head off her legs 


dermking said:


> She doesnt want me going to her work. She never goes to lunch with me.
> 
> Protects her phone, changes the password a lot. Guys i dont know on her face book account. She has explanations for all of it. Without some damning evidence, it is suspicious only. She never goes anywhere. Unless she is meeting someone on a dirt road during trips to walmart,


I once had land down a dirt road,
I used to call it lovers lane  it used to be hard to get past the cars parked on the roadway cheating wife's with their cheating guys , working the land I had no need for porn I was getting live shows each time I went there , 

her Protecting her phone is not good , there is something to hide , Time to ask to swap phones or divorce , There is this guy I think he is on YOUTUBE where he goes up to couples and asks them to swap phones and look at each others messages on film most times one is cheating 
You said she cleaned up her FB but it is just one lover she need keep and if they are cheating behind your back she does not have to have him or her on FB 

IT MAKES NO DOFFERENCE if the lover is a man or woman once her love is for him it is the same thing ;


dermking said:


> Most of the money on the credit cards were at hobby lobby, home goods and the like. The kind of stuff to decorate a house. Not guy decorations. However, this house never saw any of the nick nacks or decorations.


 40K is a lot of hobby lobby, and nothing to show for it , 


dermking said:


> ATT usage shows no unusual numbers, some extra data during work hours. Before i opened my mouth, there were numbers i didnt know and i never investigated.


 IT could be a friend , the type that is helpful the type you don't expect but from what you said I would spy on her at work and brake time 


dermking said:


> Hell, it could be that she just isnt in love with me anymore, but is comfortable and just wants to grow old. A few weeks ago she told me i was her "companion".


This is enough for Divorce unless you change and except THE hard Duty Sex


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)




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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Like shat


EB123 said:


> . But y’all know, men are always thinking about sex. A man's idea of love is get it out, get it up, get it in, get it off. There is more to a relationship than just sex.


A man’s attention is focused on what he needs most. Things he has plenty of he isn’t worried about. A man’s idea of love is a beautiful woman that he loves having sex with, spending time with, going places with, is proud of, admires for her character, and helps him through life.
A man can find a male friend who is fun to go fishing with, have as a roommate, is fun to talk to about man stuff, etc. BUT, a man doesn’t want to kiss his buddy or have sex with him. He wants a woman to do those things with. 
He wants a woman with a soft voice to come home to, tell his dreams to, build a life with.

It’s people that are getting all the sex they want, or want very little sex that place its value in a relationship very low. Healthy people do place a high value on physical intimacy which includes snuggling, kissing, touching, and yes, sex. There’s nothing wrong with that. 


There is something wrong with staying with a woman who doesn’t want to participate in physical intimacy when it’s something that is valued. Because a man with a frigid wife is a lonely man indeed.


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## Rooster Cogburn (10 mo ago)

dermking said:


> This behavior started 4 years ago, fairly abruptly. Just after finding $40,000 worth of credit card bills she was hiding.
> 
> During the 50 shades of gray years, she was into every thing.
> 
> ...


Brother... all of the quoted... all of this STINKS. And it's not your breath.

Bad ju-ju man. 

Grab your nut sack and find out.

You know what to do... your gut made you post here. It's pretty intuitive.


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

sideways said:


> "A man's idea of love is get it out, get it up, get it in, get it off. There is more to a relationship than just sex"????
> 
> What a pathetic comment. Sounds like something Texasmom would say.


true all you need to prove this is all the posts about wife does not kiss anymore or read the bad sex no sex topic 

and it is not only men that now think along the lines of it is only sex or making love, 
women seem to be happy now to have fwb or fb


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

EB123 said:


> Maybe sex isn’t a priority for her anymore.


Often the case in long term


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

I’d explain how you need kisses, how doggie is good but missionary is good too. Hire a detective. Won’t cost $40K and you will get answers.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

She’s changing the password on her phone and hiding her social media from you. 

$40K in credit card debt on Hobby Lobby stuff, but none of it in your house. But it’s at someone’s house.

Zero interest jn kissing and being intimate with you (except for occasional sex where she refuses to look at you). She wants to keep stringing you along, so she throws you some from time to time.

She’s having an affair. The phone issue alone tells you that. The other stuff is just more evidence. 

Confronting her won’t work. You tried that before. I doubt things will ever change. She’s going to always revert back to her ways. It is probably time to move on and put yourself first.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

yes, the phone thing is red flag. $40,000 for what???


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

EB123 said:


> But y’all know, men are always thinking about sex. A man's idea of love is get it out, get it up, get it in, get it off.


This is SO wrong! You've forgotten the blow job before getting it in...


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

In Absentia said:


> This is SO wrong! You've forgotten the blow job before getting it in...


That’s SOP here


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

dermking said:


> Hell, it could be that she just isnt in love with me anymore, but is comfortable and just wants to grow old. A few weeks ago she told me i was her "companion".


Forget about collecting evidence. Since this has been going on for 4 years, you have a decision to make. Between now and dead, is this the way you want to live your life? If I woke up in your shoes, I would sit her down and explain to her that you are done living a loveless relationship and offer her a choice. She can sit back while you get a girlfriend; hire prostitutes, masturbate to porn in front of her, or get a divorce. Then I would see a lawyer and have the papers drawn up, drop them in front of her and show her where to sign.

Her world is too comfortable and she has no fear of you leaving. It's time to blow up her world and leave her with ashes.


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## Bulfrog1987 (Oct 8, 2021)

dermking said:


> Hello all. First post. Trying to figure if i should be worried about a few trends in our intimate moments.
> 
> First my wife will not kiss me. My wife of 32 years and i used to kiss regularly. Good sensual, not sloppy, kisses. She only kisses me now if i hold her tight and she puckers up hard lipped and pecks my lips and moves on. She will NOT kiss me any other way or time. Not even while having sex. Absolutely no kisses. Refuses.
> 
> ...


I became detached emotionally from my husband the last year he was alive. He was very selfish in our relationship and it finally got to point I couldn’t just brush it off any longer. I was the only one caring for our child, I was working and staying home with our son, and running the entire household.

When I finally tried to ask for help, it was a fight and complete shut out of anything I was feeling. I was crazy, “you knew what you signed up for,” and thing escalated from there. After that I could no longer view it his man in a romantic way.

With 32 years of marriage under your belt I would
Presume children are not an issue, but what else goes on? You’re speaking strictly from a physical perspective but we women are emotional creatures. If there’s wining and dining and that’s the only for of romance being poured into her that may not be enough. Sometimes and in your case, as women get older we need a few days of lead up to the act. 

If that makes any sense. Perdue her but not just for the end game of sex. ?


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’d explain how you need kisses, how doggie is good but missionary is good too. Hire a detective. Won’t cost $40K and you will get answers.


 i think money well spent one way oe the other


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## marko polo (Jan 26, 2021)

dermking said:


> I let the cat out of the bag last year about my suspicions. She changed all her habits. She has cleaned up all her social media. Never gets on any social media other than tik tok around me.
> 
> Most of the money on the credit cards were at hobby lobby, home goods and the like. The kind of stuff to decorate a house. Not guy decorations. However, this house never saw any of the nick nacks or decorations.
> 
> ...


You let the cat out of the bag last year - Affair went underground - she cleared up all her social media. Likely she has a burner phone and if not, alternate social media accounts you are unaware of. You haven't stopped anything.

You think emotional. If your wife has gone relatively cold with you that doesn't mean she isn't having her needs met elsewhere.

If all you are is a glorified roommate then treat her like one. Don't do anything you used to as her husband. Place your interests first.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

If you suspect she’s cheating on you and you’re continuing to have sex with her, you need to get tested just in case.


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## Tatsuhiko (Jun 21, 2016)

Bulfrog1987 said:


> I became detached emotionally from my husband the last year he was alive. He was very selfish in our relationship...


I'm wondering if this is what happened. Maybe there was a big blow-up fight about the $40k and now she views you as "selfish". Maybe part of it is passive aggressive revenge for you objecting to $40k of crap that she gifted to her friends or whatever.


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## dermking (5 mo ago)

Tatsuhiko said:


> I'm wondering if this is what happened. Maybe there was a big blow-up fight about the $40k and now she views you as "selfish". Maybe part of it is passive aggressive revenge for you objecting to $40k of crap that she gifted to her friends or whatever.


This is on my top 5 list of why.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

EB123 said:


> A man's idea of love is get it out, get it up, get it in, get it off.


If that is your personal truth then I honestly feel sorry for your experiences in the past but you need to also take note that the same belief makes you just as a bad a partner that you believe men to be. Being Pink Pilled is just as bad as being Red Pilled.

Know thy self and know thy worth but not at the expense of a possibility good relationship.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Any spouse that called me a companion, never kissed me and turned the other way while having sex would find divorce papers next to the morning coffee!
She’s done! But she does want you paying for her lifestyle…

that wouldn’t be a marriage to me.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

She won’t face you during rare sex because she doesn’t want it to be you.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

Beach123 said:


> She won’t face you during rare sex because she doesn’t want it to be you.


eyes shut tight


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Please don’t divorce this woman. You don’t want to meet the hundreds Of women that would be starving for your kisses and want to constantly have sex with you.
It’s very stressful having someone that appreciates and desires you. Heck, I struggle to get enough sleep.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

40,000 dollars in credit card bills she was hiding and you did not know about? And now you think she is acting strangely again? What possible reason was there for this and without your knowledge?


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

dermking said:


> *his behavior started 4 years ago, fairly abruptly. *Just after finding $40,000 worth of credit card bills she was hiding. This was the same time my mom died, i was the executor and found my siblings were stealing. I was in a bit of a rut for a while.





dermking said:


> She doesnt want me going to her work. She never goes to lunch with me.





dermking said:


> *Protects her phone, changes the password a lot. Guys i dont know on her face book account.*





dermking said:


> *I feel she is hiding something*, but she knows i have no proof and no leverage to get her to talk.





Evinrude58 said:


> If she guards her phone and won’t see you at work or have lunch with you, she has a work husband. But who cares? She doesn’t love you, and lots of other women would.


IMO she doesn't want to see your face during sex because then she would feel she was betraying her AP. So if you are behind her or have your face in her bush she doesn't have to look at you and can dream of the guy(s) besides you.

You know what is going on. It is a shame after 32 years and empty nest you arrive at this juncture.

But, that is life.

Hire an PI to dig up the shyte she is hiding. Then do what you think best for you. Hint, you can do WAY better.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

dermking said:


> She says she does not want to divorce. She is addiment about that.


It really isn't her decision to make. How much h3ll did she get for the $40k four years ago? That is a new car! Did she have to explain where the crap she bought went? Was she decorating some guys love nest? I would think that much money caused you to demand some answers. No?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

I’d say you would be much better off without her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

dermking said:


> . She says she does not want to divorce. She is addiment about that. It could be more charge cards.


Well yeah, why would she want to divorce - she's got it made. She has you to help pay the bills and help take care of the house and kill spiders while she runs up the credit cards without accountability and gets to have her fun with this other guy for 4 years while you are none-the-wiser. 

We should all be envious of her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

dermking said:


> Without some damning evidence, it is suspicious only. She never goes anywhere. Unless she is meeting someone on a dirt road on a trip to walmart.


Everything you've listed IS the damming evidence. 

But in regards to the dirt road on the way to Walmart - Been there, done that in my younger days. 

*That is EXACTLY how affairs take place!!! *

The movies have us convinced that affairs are these deep, meaningful romantic endeavors with candlelight dinners and moonlight walks on the beach etc etc. 

The reality is that is really is hook ups and blow jobs in the car in the back of the park by Walmart or swinging by the AP's apartment on their way to another friend or relative's house or stopping by a cheap motel room on the way home from work. And this is assuming that they aren't slipping into basement supply room for a quickie at work. 

If she has a gym membership, that is also the perfect getaway, put on some sweatpants that can be dropped and pulled back up quickly and she has the perfect excuse for coming home all sweaty and hair askew and needing to go straight to the shower. 

Real life affairs are down and dirty and not romantic and glamorous at all. 

Real life adulterers do not need lots of Get-To-Know-You time and do not spend days or weeks on dates and dinners and mooonlight walks to get to know each other. Single people do that. Married people give each other a knowing wink and a nod and a few minutes to agree to keep their secret safe and then they meet in the building stairwell or basement supply room.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Has she taken any vacations without you in the past few years?


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with stating what’s obvious. something like:

Honey, this isn’t working for me anymore, my needs aren’t being met - so I want out of this relationship. I want someone who holds me in the highest esteem - and that’s definitely not you anymore.


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## dermking (5 mo ago)

Rus47 said:


> It really isn't her decision to make. How much h3ll did she get for the $40k four years ago? That is a new car! Did she have to explain where the crap she bought went? Was she decorating some guys love nest? I would think that much money caused you to demand some answers. No?


At first i was hurt and more reserved. I required that she see a counselor. I went to her first session. She lied to the shrink. She said she "charged a little too much". It quickly went down hill after that. She never truly acknowledged what she did. She only paid it off because she got several big bonuses at work. Over the last 2 years, it comes up in every argument. She hasn't rebuilt the trust.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Getting out now would be cheaper. We all know it will happen again.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

dermking said:


> At first i was hurt and more reserved. I required that she see a counselor. I went to her first session. She lied to the shrink. She said she "charged a little too much". It quickly went down hill after that. She never truly acknowledged what she did. She only paid it off because she got several big bonuses at work. Over the last 2 years, it comes up in every argument. She hasn't rebuilt the trust.


If she doesn't acknowledge she was wrong, then she has no remorse. 40K is a lot of money. That's not ok. You know what you need to do.


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## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

And how do you know she isn’t charging up more debt now? Some people have a spending problem.
Her not addressing her problem WITH YOU in order to fix it - is a big problem in itself!

is there any reason to stay in this broken relationship that isn’t filling your needs?


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## annoyed1 (Aug 11, 2014)

No matter how you explain it, it seems there’s no foreplay. Foreplay starts outside the bedroom. Help her in the kitchen, wash or dry the dishes, vacuum the living room, take out the trash, while she’s washing dishes, hug her from behind, kiss her neck, make her want you. No more chasing, build her need for lust..,.


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## Longtime Hubby (7 mo ago)

annoyed1 said:


> No matter how you explain it, it seems there’s no foreplay. Foreplay starts outside the bedroom. Help her in the kitchen, wash or dry the dishes, vacuum the living room, take out the trash, while she’s washing dishes, hug her from behind, kiss her neck, make her want you. No more chasing, build her need for lust..,.


Um, I spent lots of time doing all of the above. No increase in her desire. Zero. Good luck


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

annoyed1 said:


> No matter how you explain it, it seems there’s no foreplay. Foreplay starts outside the bedroom. Help her in the kitchen, wash or dry the dishes, vacuum the living room, take out the trash, while she’s washing dishes, hug her from behind, kiss her neck, make her want you. No more chasing, build her need for lust..,.


I'm skeptical that doing the dishes and vacuuming are going to get a woman hot and ready for sex. That also sounds quite transactional. That said, I do believe that doing your fair share and keeping her plate from overflowing will allow her to feel like she has the time to relax and be seduced.


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