# Chronic Disease and marriage and divorce



## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

My wife (late 50s) and I (61) are not the healthiest people in the world, even so we probably have a number of good years ahead of us.

I have a neurological condition that has me using an electric scooter for distances over 50' and occasionally falling, my long term prospects are not good, even so I could have many pleasant years before using "plan B". I have long term care insurance - expensive but will pay for part of home care if I need it, the Social Security Administration is paying me disability (SSDI), I have a pending claim for Long Term Disability Insurance from my firm's insurer, and enough assets that I enjoy my life. I want to move to San Francisco, my suburban town is boring, winter too cold, summer too hot.

My wife was a heavy smoker, suffers from depression that seems to be under control lately due to meds, and is a 7 year survivor of breast cancer with no recurrence. HURRAH !

She is working and has a reasonable income, she loves her job, wants to stay here in CT where her aging parents live. She has her salary, a 6 digit 401K, pension, and social security. 

As I wrote in a response to GreenPearl, I'm a nice guy, despite thinking I want to divorce my wife, I also want to make sure she has enough wealth to live many comfortable years.

My question is - given our wealth, given that our finances are separate aside from our house where we have 50% equity should we divorce ? I will ask our eldercare attorney, I think I know her answer, but really want to see what I hear.

I'm concerned that medical problems could rapidly cost either of us a small fortune not covered by insurance for long term care either in a nursing home - her choice, or at home - my choice, the healthier spouse would be responsible for the costs of care, CT's Medicare agency goes after spousal assets PDQ.

Mark


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

ThinkTooMuch said:


> My wife (late 50s) and I (61) are not the healthiest people in the world, even so we probably have a number of good years ahead of us.
> 
> I have a neurological condition that has me using an electric scooter for distances over 50' and occasionally falling, my long term prospects are not good, even so I could have many pleasant years before using "plan B". I have long term care insurance - expensive but will pay for part of home care if I need it, the Social Security Administration is paying me disability (SSDI), I have a pending claim for Long Term Disability Insurance from my firm's insurer, and enough assets that I enjoy my life. I want to move to San Francisco, my suburban town is boring, winter too cold, summer too hot.
> 
> ...


Mark 
Is that your name?
If you were my father, (you age is about my father), this is a Chinese daughter's advice. You may not like it. 
I really don't know how bad your relationship is with your wife. I read some of your posts, looks like you still care a lot about her. 
You leave her, are you sure that you will find a better wife? 
Are you looking after your wife or your wife is looking after you now? 
Are you sure that another woman without any long term feeling will be happy to look after you when you are sick? 
Who is going to look after her when she is sick? Will she be able to find a better man? 
I am concerned! I want your life to be peaceful! 
I don't know the chance of finding another better partner at an old age. Please don't mind. 
The idea of my post was trying to tell us that there is no perfection. 
I want you to be happy!


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Am I reading this right? Sounds like you have 2 concerns:

1. You want to live somewhere else and your wife wants to stay put due to job and family

2. You want to make sure that your wife's portion of the marriage's assets don't get eaten up when or if long term care becomes a financial issue.

It isn't romantic, but #2 is a valid / practical reason to divorce. You need to speak to an attorney, because I believe that they can go after her assets if its obvious that your reason for divorce was to protect assets.

Number 1 though - not so sure. Is there really no chance that your wife would want to come too? Is SF your ONLY town of choice? Any other cities / towns you could both agree on - better weather, but maybe still close enough to her family? Sounds like you could work together on some sort of compromise for this one.


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Hi Greenpearl,

Yes, my first name is Mark.

I do care about my wife, that's part of the problem and she cares about me. I am very glad she has no need for surgery.

You raised a very reasonable issue, certainly from the viewpoint of a Chinese woman, and one I have considered.

If my disease progresses to the point I need care with what in America is called Activities of Daily Living especially the most intimate, I would prefer a non-family member to care for me. I have a friend, the widow of a man who lived 10 years at home until his recent death, he was hopelessly bed ridden, she cared for him daily. Unfortunately his disease progressed a rapid rate.

I do not want to spend my life in a similar way, I hate being cared for when I'm sick, my limit is little more than accepting a glass of water. I saw what happened to my father when he was dying of cancer a decade ago, fortunately his dr. listened carefully to him. I, like him, will be able to say to my sons - I have had a good life, do not cry for me. Death comes to all of us, I hope I will have a few years enjoying the life I have dreamt and planned.

Both my wife and I care for ourselves, I do the food shopping, cooking, cleanup after myself, do my laundry, care for the cats, pay bills, manage investments, drive, have friends who I see regularly. Cleaning ladies take care of washing floors, cleaning bathrooms, vacuum, and general neatening more because neither of us likes to perform these tasks and we can afford their help. FYI, my parents grew up very poor, they insisted I work hard and get a good education, in this respect we Jews are very similar to Chinese. My children and grandchildren live in Seattle and San Francisco - I want to see more of them and they me.

Many of my friends of similar age - so called Baby Boomers - still think we are 17, more than one I know has found happiness in their late 50s and 60s after careers, marriage(s), adult children, and sometimes grand children. 

I don't know if I will find anyone but in many respects I already live alone despite my wife - between her sleeping way past noon on the weekend and working till 10 two nights a week, I am not only alone, but restricted from close friendships and dating.

I do know that I will not continue to live in the United States' Northeast. I've lived here all my life, the weather in winter and summer no longer enjoyable, the lack of a nearby places that I find interesting a real problem, the town I live in and every town within 50 miles in shuts down at dinner time with the exception of restaurants.






greenpearl said:


> Mark
> Is that your name?
> If you were my father, (you age is about my father), this is a Chinese daughter's advice. You may not like it.
> I really don't know how bad your relationship is with your wife. I read some of your posts, looks like you still care a lot about her.
> ...


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

Nice777guy,

You read correctly, I should refine my post a bit to make it clearer, please read on.

Besides protecting her assets I want to protect mine, I've spent a life deferring gratification. Current US Law has spouses needing to spend just about every penny for medical care. The time the govt can go after for a spouse's care is five years post divorce, until a few years ago it was three years. 

Our attorney, she specializes in elder care law, has told my 80+ yo separated in fact these past 8 years, if not by court, in-laws they need to divorce if they want their estate to be divided among their children and grandchildren. My wife is very familiar with this topic because of job and profession.

Despite our mutual caring, my wife's continued objection and her crazies, have killed my desire to live my remaining years with her. I don't know if she will act like hopeful1 and make a very strong and continuing effort to win my love again, but my love has been killed by rejection after rejection, a huge difference in libido, and more. 

SF is my number 1 choice, I could see Santa Barbara, Boulder, parts of New Mexico, perhaps Los Angeles or San Diego - the problem for me is she doesn't want to leave CT, the problem for her is I have spent my life trying to make my ex and current wives happy. Like too many nice guys (my close Chinese born friend says "you have a Buddha soul, you care very much and try to make your loved ones happy") I want to be selfish and meet my needs first. I've saved, worked and studied hard over 40 years, I am comfortable with myself and this decision. My children are grown and well educated.

Certainly if I or my wife became ill in the first five years after divorce we would be on the hook for costs not covered by insurance, the afflicted one's savings, pension, home equity, etc would be adequate to cover even a good nursing home. 

When we met in the mid 80s our net worth was about $125 +/- what we had in our wallets, perhaps $50 if you count change on the top of the bureau (not a typo), I've been lucky in my investments and she has followed my advice. Neither of us was paid large amounts by local standards, I was the fourth out of six in terms of salary in the small group I worked at, she is near the bottom for her profession and education as she works at a non-profit.

Mark





nice777guy said:


> Am I reading this right? Sounds like you have 2 concerns:
> 
> 1. You want to live somewhere else and your wife wants to stay put due to job and family
> 
> ...


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## greeneyeddolphin (May 31, 2010)

It's funny, isn't it, how when you have no money it's a concern, and when you have real money it's still a concern? 

Mark, I really wish I could give you solid advice here. It's hard, though, when you still care for your spouse. For me, deciding to divorce my ex husband was a no brainer. He treated me horribly, he lied and cheated, he all but handed me the divorce papers and said, "Please, divorce my miserable, loser butt." By the time I left him, I had no love left for him, and still, 7 yrs later, feel nothing beyond contempt and occasional pity for the sad life he's now living. 

I think it's admirable that you are trying not only to protect your own assets, but to ensure that your wife's are protected as well.

I think the first step to deciding whether to divorce is to sit down and find out if there's any hope whatsoever of you two continuing to live together. You seem rather adamant about moving to SF, and she seems to feel the same about staying in CT. If neither of you are willing to change your mind, then you'll be going your separate ways physically, and if you're going to live separate lives, is there really much point in continuing to be tied to each other? I will admit, there are relationships that exist even with physical distance. My own is one of them. My boyfriend is an otr truck driver (leaving Sunday night for his new job!), and we spend much of our time physically separated. But the difference is that we want to be together...we love each other and we look forward to our time together. From your many posts, I gather that your wife does not seem to look forward to her time with you. This makes me think that once separated by physical distance, it's only going to be easier for you two to essentially ignore each other and allow the relationship to fall further and further into a neglected state. And once that happens, all you have is two people who are legally bound to each other, and aren't happy together but are unable to move on and find someone else to love. 

At the same time, though, I suppose there is that slim possibility that you could go to SF, your wife could remain in CT, and with time, she could realize that she does in fact want to be with you, and pick up and move to SF, and rekindle your marriage into what you've been wanting all this time. So, perhaps rushing straight to divorce court isn't the way to go, either. 

Maybe a trial separation? You go to SF, she stays in CT, you give it a set length of time (say, 6 mos or a yr?), and reassess at that time? If things are no better or at least no different, you divorce at that point? 

I'm sorry, I wish I had better advice.


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

ThinkTooMuch said:


> Hi Greenpearl,
> 
> Yes, my first name is Mark.
> 
> ...


You are a man who values dignity a lot. Am I right? Don't want people to feel sorry for you! You don't want people to see you being weak, especially the ones you know! Am I right? 
I am the same! I hate it when people pity me. 
I feel that you still yearn for romance, why not! 
But please find a woman who really cares about you! Don't let her know that you have money. Some women are not that sincere. I do believe there are a lot of forty-year-old single women. 
If you do want to leave, please just end everything fast. If you let it procrastinate for one more day, you lose one more day. 
Wish you happy!!!


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## ThinkTooMuch (Aug 6, 2010)

greenpearl said:


> You are a man who values dignity a lot. Am I right? Don't want people to feel sorry for you! You don't want people to see you being weak, especially the ones you know! Am I right?
> I am the same! I hate it when people pity me.
> I feel that you still yearn for romance, why not!
> But please find a woman who really cares about you! Don't let her know that you have money. Some women are not that sincere. I do believe there are a lot of forty-year-old single women.
> ...


Greenpearl,

You are absolutely right, I yearn for romance, a bright, funny woman who can be older than me or younger, but probably close in age.

In the last month or two I've met two who I like, one older, one younger, both alas with very, very close friends. 

Youth, as the cliche goes, is wasted on the young. In January while I was on vacation a number of very attractive young women sat down near me while I was on a warm beach, despite youth and beauty, I wouldn't want to spend a minute doing anything other than making love to any of them - their loveliness was matched only by absence of brains and compassion - they were self centered to the extreme.

I don't want people to feel sorry for me, I want to open the door for myself, carry my own packages, I didn't want my former coworkers or most of my friends and acquaintances knowing the name of my neurological condition, most people here think it is always rapidly & completely disabling when it isn't for most of us, it was enough they saw me use a cane and later a scooter.

Your advice to not let women know I have money is good, I recall that one of the things my now wife really liked when we met was that I have a good education and a good job despite being temporarily broke. I wanted a date and a shared night or two, she wanted marriage within a few minutes of talking. 

Much to my amazement she has been nicer as I've gotten more distant and stronger. Today she said "When do you want to go to Seattle and SF?" I've been asking for an answer and was getting ready to leave in October for 5 or 6 weeks. Now she wants to be with me for 8 to 10 days and stay in my son's tiny house in Seattle. I want to be there because of my grandchildren, in past years she's always wanted a nice, expensive hotel where she can sleep late. Interesting, on one level she finally realizes her meal ticket - me - is on the way out the door and is hoping to keep me around.

I agree with you about the need to move forward rapidly. Tomorrow (Saturday) or Sunday I'll make travel plans for November, though I may end up going out in October, she can come out on her schedule.

Mark


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## greenpearl (Sep 3, 2010)

ThinkTooMuch said:


> Greenpearl,
> 
> You are absolutely right, I yearn for romance, a bright, funny woman who can be older than me or younger, but probably close in age.
> 
> ...


Mark;
I respect your decision!!! And I like your choice of women. I asked my husband why he didn't seek younger women to date, he said that a lot of them are just pin heads. When we first saw each other, I was 30 and divorced, he was 26 and never had a girlfriend. 
You are seeking companionship, not sex, that is the most important reason to leave an unhappy marriage. 
I am sure you will find a woman who will match you very well, and you are going to make her life happy. 
Wish you happy!!!!! And sooner!!!!!!!


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