# Want her back



## k91

This will be a long story so bear with me. I'll begin at the beginning. About 8 years ago the wife and I were in a rough place. Long story short I came home from work one Friday and she was gone. No note nothing. I called my buddy in desperation and he immediately came over to console me. It turns out she got a hotel room with this guy and well early the next morning called me begging to take her back. I did no questions asked and forgave her although it took a long time to get over it.

Fast forward to the beginning of last year. I intercepted some lets say interesting communications and went into a panic. Throwing myself on the ground outside I called my father in law who assured me I was being crazy and she would never do that. Now bear in mind neither her parents or my own ever knew about the stuff from 8 years ago. They only knew we were fighting...I wonder why? Anyways I knew she had this male "friend" who I believed was being kind and helping her through another rough patch for us. Again long story short communications became friendlier and friendlier and she is in "love" with him. I am devastated. Eventually late last summer I again confront her about the affair and she more or less comes clean about it and says we are through.

I am grief stricken. My best friend of 18 years has not only cheated on me but replaced me with a much, much older man. Yes the plot thickens. The next morning she does an about face and wants to work things out. I feel as if my heart started beating again. I do everything she wants to do for the next week. Any home project immediately accomplished. She even wanted me to upgrade my wardrobe...done no protest. Then I am in the middle of one home improvement project with my buddy and she tells me she can't stop thinking about dude and has to text him again. Once more I feel the pain.

So fast forward to now she wants a divorce and her own place and me out of her life. She is the love of my life. I cannot imagine living without her. She is the mother of our child and we've been through everything together.

I am actively seeking therapy but they do not call back. I feel so lost. Is there any hope? She is firm on the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. I want to tell her how I feel but it seems to contradict some of the information I have read. One person says it will make you look weak another says you have to destroy the affair at all costs but that seems like I would even lose her as a friend. 

Ok next post will be about what I did wrong to drive her away maybe I should have started with that?


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## k91

Part 2 self inspection...yikes.

So after the first incident things were kind of tense. Our marriage grew more and more controlling. I'm not sure if it was her being the enabler because she felt guilty or me trying to keep her from leaving again or some combination of the two. We kept on moving forward. Fights here and there but I think she knew I did really love her despite my failings and I did shower her with attention.

Enter baby. Of course, anyone with half a brain knows a baby will not fix an already rocky marriage but eventually I did give in to her requests and well it has been wonderful, terrible and the most enlightening experience of my life. I yet again made a mistake and put baby ahead of my wife. I can see it clearly now. Hindsight is 20/20 right? I could go into details but it does not really serve a purpose.

Having a child required us both to make certain sacrifices and I did so willing yet begrudgingly to ensure the welfare of my child. So I became angry and distant...red alert right? Now we continue to spiral and grow apart and she happens to run into dude. Now the twist he had his hand in what happened all those years ago but not in a negative way. So he became a friend and then closer friend and well you get the picture. All this naturally made me even angrier and I said stupid things and was too confused and bewildered by the whole situation to grab the bull by the horns and try and fight for my marriage like I should have from the get go.

At first I think I felt relief to hear all my suspicions were not unfounded and our arrangement that had not been working for so long was over.

It was however almost like a death at least a metaphoric death of the old me. She of course refuses to believe I could ever change and the cycle will only continue. After all these long months of thinking about it I realize I have changed. Things could never return to how they were and I think the screwed up way we lived was the reason for my anger. I also realize it has always been her, my light my reason for everything. Since the day we met she was my angel and I lost sight of that. We were that annoying couple that did everything together, always held hands and had no problem kissing in public.

I just do not know how to proceed. I have found counsel in the most unlikely of places. Perhaps the single most simple yet guiding ideal that pushes me onward is the advice of a friend to follow my heart. My heart still beats for her but I fear it may be too late.

I have read and reread the marriage builders forums and their advice would be to expose the affair at all costs. However, she still will not even call it an affair and it is all very hush hush. I fear doing so will make her so angry I lose any chance of being her friend.

The other strange part of her reasoning that bugs me to the core is she says this is all about how horrible I am as a husband. Sure I made a lot of mistakes I admit that. I am willing to do WHATEVER it takes to atone for them and build a stronger and better union not only for her but for our child as well. But how do you explain staying with someone so horrible for 12 years until you meet someone else and then calling the quits? Two events that happen simultaneously could be unrelated but I mean come on now I was born at night but not last night.


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## k91

Ok part 3 if anyone is still listening...my feelings/questions.

I miss holding her hand. I miss making her laugh. I miss well her missing me. And a million other things. I feel so lost without the person I built my life around. Let alone how devastated my self esteem is.

So do I foolishly follow my heart and tell her these things? I'm sure it will only push her away and I am certain it would make no difference in any of her plans. On the other hand I feel like I am lying to her by not telling her the truth and it is eating me up inside.

Or should I play it cool like the relationship rewind suggests and be her friend hoping that by showing her I can be the person she wants she will come to me and ask me back?

I don't know how much time I have left before she does something drastic. And like my friend says eventually the OM is going to want her out of the same house as me if their relationship is going to progress and I am sure he is leading her in that direction.

I have never felt so alone. I want so badly to reach out to her and tell her how I feel but we do not have that kind of connection right now.


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## MarriedDude

wiser people than me will advise you....until they respond....

Look up the 180. Do it and live it.

Whatever you do.....don't attempt to talk to her about your feelings...
Don't do it
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## anchorwatch

IYou really have your sense of self tied to her. That is not healthy for an individual. A woman wants a man who has a strong sense of self. One that doesn't have people who betray him in his life. Do you think she sees you that way? If you chase after her and press her to come back, do you think she'll feel that's attractive? 

You seem to feel if you lose this marriage you're a failure. That's not true. Every success is based in failures. So what you made mistakes, that's how we learn. Now you'll work on them. You're not some boy to be punished, You're a man who will correct his course when he recognizes he gone astray. What about her part in this marriage? She had responsibilities too. Even with her complaints about the M, on what list of things that would fix a relationship is adultery? Meh...

At some point, you will have take the chance and put control of your future in your own hands and stop letting her dictate what will happen. 

There are only three scenarios that can happen. 

She can end the affair and work on fixing the marriage problems
She can end the marriage and try to build a new life with OM
She can continue the relationship with OM while keeping you as plan B. 

You can't force her to do the first one, but you can take away the third option. What will it be? 

Here are some readings other than MB. 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...e-tam-cwi-newbies-please-read.html#post430739

180 List 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html

Best.


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## GusPolinski

She's cheated (at least) twice before and, because she's seen absolutely nothing from you in the way of consequences up to this point, she's likely cheating again.

Geez. Just divorce already.


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## commonsenseisn't

You have my heartfelt sympathy. You, like I did many years ago, are making every mistake in the book and you need to request a moderator to move this thread to the coping with infidelity forum so you can get more relevant advise. 

I'm not going to give you a blow by blow game plan of what you are doing wrong and how to correct it because of the simple fact that your wife is officially a serial cheater. Everything else is irrelevant because experience has shown that it's almost impossible to salvage a marriage damaged by a serial cheater spouse. Sorry, but it's the truth. 

The correct game plan is:
1. Learn and implement the 180.
2. See a lawyer asap and file for divorce. Protect your assets and don't reveal your plans to your adulterous wife. 
3. Don't look back.

Trust me, you will some day be glad you did this and moved on. There is light at the end of the tunnel. Been there, done that, and I speak from experience.


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## k91

So if she asks me to do stuff do I do it or not? Like home improvement stuff for instance.

And please move to the correct forum I was not sure which one that would be. Thanks!


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## notmyrealname4

> It turns out she got a hotel room with this guy and well early the next morning *called me begging to take her back. I did no questions asked *and forgave her although it took a long time to get over it.


This was your first mistake. Why would you do that?


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## Mr.Fisty

The first thing you should fix is your codependency issues. You two are separate entities. You truly will never know what is actually going through her mind. She does not respect you, because you lack self-respect. Biologically, most women are made to be attracted to strength, confidence, and sense of security. Attraction is part of love and once that is gone, the romantic interests dies. Any relationship needs an infusion of dopamine to keep it feeling new and romantic. Everything wears out over time, love lust, and romance.

Second, stop making excuses for your wife. You should own your issues, and she should do the same in return. The fact that both of you did not seek help, but danced around the issues, never got anything resolved. Until you learn to detach, and stop being a codependent, I guarantee that almost no woman will be attracted to that quality, unless that person is a narcissist, then you have more issues to deal with. Your love is clouding your vision of who your wife really is, as you refer her to your angel. Last time I checked, angels don't go around having affairs. If your wife turns out to be a psychopath, who goes around killing people for sport, how will that affect your attraction to her. You will find her abhorrent. The love you felt, and your attraction would quickly fade away.

You both missed the mark on how to make a relationship strong. Every relationship in the beginning, it is easy for those magical feelings to surface. There is novelty, the excitement of something new, and your pretty much drugged by hormones. This will give the feeling of being each others one and only, soul mates. Once the novelty wears off, then add the stress of life to the mix, it is harder for those magical feelings to return. If it does not, the relationship becomes platonic. Each of you has to put in more work than when you first started to keep the attraction and in love feelings alive. You do not have the excitement of something new, so you create an exciting environment such as go dancing, taking a dance class together, go on romantic dates, spend time doing intimate things, have intimate conversations. The whole communication aspect needs couples to have their own individualism to have something to converse about. If you spend all your time with one person, or you really have no life, what is there to talk about, to discover about the other.


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## anchorwatch

Stop doing things for her. She isn't interested in your marriage anymore. Do things for yourself. If fixing the house benefits you, do it. Don't do it for her. She is not interested in reciprocating and doing things for you. She is only interested in doing things for her self. 

You only want her. You don't need her to have a good life. 

K91, you will need to stop thinking you can do something to save this. You can't. You can only do something about yourself. She is with another man. There is no marriage now. Take her third choice away, and gain some respect and pride in yourself. Don't you deserve to be with someone who only wants you? 

Best


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## commonsenseisn't

k91 said:


> And please move to the correct forum I was not sure which one that would be. Thanks!


You will need to send a personal message to a moderator and request the move.

Try Deejo, or Amplexor, or Coffee Amore. 

And I echo the advise of the other posters ... Implement the 180, divorce her, and fix your codependency for the sake of the next relationship. Good luck.


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## cdbaker

I think Mr. Fisty has it right above. Work on your co-dependancy issues first. That means focusing on yourself. Implement the 180. Focus on your needs. Start eating better, working out (get in shape), keep your home clean and tidy, do any repairs that need done, start dressing better, etc. Whether she comes to her senses and the marriage is saved or not, you'll be better off either way and a far more desirably potential mate.

I'll also share a piece of my own story that seems to relate well to yours. When I caught my wife in her 1st affair, I think she reacted much the way your wife did. Initially she was confidently, heartlessly, telling me that we were through and she she was in love with the older affair partner. He too was married, and they'd spent a couple months seeing each other nearly every weekday while I was at work, falling in love, supposedly making plans to run away together and blah blah blah. When she was busted, she was confident that they would indeed leave together, but of course his words were a bunch of garbage and he wouldn't leave his wife. Within hours changed her tune completely and wanted to come home to "work on the marriage".

All that happened was that they took the affair further underground. Burner phones, secret meetings away, etc. I caught her again and the same story played out. He was a manipulator who just enjoyed the affair, and leading her on into thinking it would be more than that. Each time she was caught, and rejected by him as well (to "run away" together), she was utterly distraught. She turned back to me only out of a deep fear of being alone with no where to go, temporarily convincing herself that we could save the marriage, maybe, but without the level of commitment necessary for it to be possible.

When she really did try to stay away from him, she made it about a week before confessing to our MC how much she desperately missed him and how depressed she was as a result, even while hating him for having lied/betrayed/used her as well. That hurt, enormously, but our MC explained it to me in a way that made sense. He said as much as it hurts, and as wrong as it is, I had to understand that she had fallen in love with this guy. He said if you imagine loving anyone, especially in the early "honeymoon period" and then suddenly losing them completely, that's going to hurt enormously. She had gone from seeing him about five days a week and texting/chatting with him for hours every day, to absolutely zero contact. She couldn't help but think of and miss him during all that extra time she found herself with. So I tried to be understanding, but eventually like a drug addict she gave in and contacted him again through another burner phone. 

A lot of that has to do with her and I's relationship. We had a lot of things wrong in our marriage, many/most of them being my own fault in retrospect. I had a big head, felt that I was essentially "better than her" and knew the right way to do everything, so I was hesitant to change anything. When the affair went out, and friends/family found out, she was scorned by everyone and I was raised up as a saint for being willing to work it out with my cheater wife. She felt that if I wasn't willing/able to change or work on anything in the relationship before, I sure as heck wasn't going to be able to do so now, now that my head was even bigger feeling even more righteous than before. I feel like I reacted much the way you did, trying my best to be the perfect husband as quickly as possible, but she saw it all as fake. There was absolutely nothing I could do to convince her of anything, as she was completely convinced that every effort I made was temporary and driven completely by fear and/or a desire to manipulate/trick her into staying with me. So the time from initially catching her in the affair to moving out after finding a new even more disgusting affair partner (a master manipulator, twice her age, and went to prison as a pedophile two years ago) was about five months, full of relational up's and downs, but in hindsight I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was absolutely no way we could have saved the marriage during that time or avoided her moving out. It was all inevitable, only a matter of time.


I don't know how much of that relates to your situation, but there were pieces that reminded me of it. You sound a lot like me before I had my own genuine wake up call and realized that I was really making things worse, not better. So I would definitely suggest taking the advice of others here to heart. Good Luck!


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## k91

Thank you all so much for trying to help. IDK what is wrong with me that I cannot see the forest for the trees but I sure am trying. I guess it would be easier if I had someone to console me too.

And yes cdbaker your story really mirrors my own in so many ways thank you for taking the time to share it with me.


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## FormerVictim

k91,

At least you realize something is wrong with you. Rest assured, it's a problem many of us experienced.

I would observe you have settled into a cycle where you're seeking her approval. She tells you she needs something done and you step-n-fetch it. Does that sound accurate?


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## k91

FormerVictim yeah something like that. I have this false hope that I cannot shake. Even though I know in my mind it is impossible I cannot shake it. Its a conditioned response too I guess. I just have such a hard time with someone telling you they love you for so many years and then just completely turning it around. I'm trying...failing mostly right now but still trying.


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## anchorwatch

k91 said:


> Thank you all so much for trying to help. IDK what is wrong with me that I cannot see the forest for the trees but I sure am trying. I guess it would be easier if I had someone to console me too.
> 
> And yes cdbaker your story really mirrors my own in so many ways thank you for taking the time to share it with me.


k91,

There are times in life we all need help. This is one of them. Make an appointment with a counselor. Use the 180.

Nothing will change until you change. Think about it...

Do you read? This has helped many men, it could help you break free too... No More Mr Nice Guy - Robert A. Glover

Best


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## FormerVictim

k91 said:


> FormerVictim yeah something like that. I have this false hope that I cannot shake. Even though I know in my mind it is impossible I cannot shake it. Its a conditioned response too I guess. I just have such a hard time with someone telling you they love you for so many years and then just completely turning it around. I'm trying...failing mostly right now but still trying.


What was your family of origin like? How did you interact with your mother, father, and sisters?


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## cdbaker

I am hesitant to say anything more, because your situation is incredibly dire. I have a hard time imagining your marriage being able to survive this, I really do.

With that said, I can't say it's impossible. While my marriage is far from perfect, we have put it back together after our 55 y/o MC, who has worked as an MC for 25 years, told us that our situation was literally the worst case he's ever faced and he had absolutely no hope for us outside of a God-sized miracle. Again, ours isn't perfect by any stretch, but it's strong again.

In any case, whether it fails or reveals the tiniest chance of life, I don't think you can prevent the marriage from more or less "hitting rock bottom." In my case, we came within 48 hours of a final divorce hearing after having filed 8 months prior. Any effort to prevent her from leaving, any asking her to stay, or making dramatic steps to appease or satisfy her in some way, will only push her further away quicker. I promise you. In this scenario, she simply won't be capable of processing any effort you make in a positive way. She'll either be offended, disgusted, dismissive or completely unwilling to believe anything you say or do at this point. Heck, even the good stuff you do for yourself, which all of us are recommending you focus on, she will likely believe is being done for her sake for a while at first. Your prior and recent actions have probably given her every reason to believe that.


I think one thing that's worth remembering here, unfortunately, is how women who seek to end their marriages, including or not including affairs, tend to do so. From many years reading here on TAM and discussion in person with others in groups in my city, I have long noticed that women in these situations tend to hold on tight to their marriages for a long time. They try hard to get the messages through to their husbands that they are unhappy or that there is a major problem, they look the other way as problems continue, they fool themselves as much as possible, etc. But eventually they reach a point, a cliff so to speak, where they take a plunge and there is absolutely no turning them back. Seriously. Where as just a day or two prior she was desperate for a positive bit of effort from her husband, she will most often now be completely incapable of reconsidering her decision.

Unfortunately, this is often the first time that the husbands seem to notice that there is a problem. When an affair is discovered, when they come home and find their wife has moved out, or is surprised at work with divorce papers being served, etc. It's a shocking moment, they did not see it coming, and serves as an enormous wake-up call. The problem is, all that effort from their wives went unnoticed, often because they didn't communicate to him in a way that men will understand. That being, direct communication. Like a lot of little attempts to initiate sex being turned down, or mentioning that their couple friends frequently go out doing fun activities, or always complaining about being tired with housework or helping with the kids. This, instead of directly sitting him down and saying, "I am sexually unsatisfied and this has become a serious problem." Or "I want us to be more active socially, at least 2x/month." Or "I'm exhausted every day from house/child work. You need to help out more. Here is a list of chores that need done, we need to come up with a plan to split them more fairly." Etc. See the difference?

The really lousy part here is that once it's gotten to this point, the wife has closed the door and running full speed away from the marriage (or hooking up with her affair partner) and the husband is having his "OH SHI*" wake-up call moment and suddenly ready to do anything to save it, there just isn't much he can do. I'm sure you've heard the line from women, "I shouldn't have to tell you! You should know!" Well this is the ultimate, and final, case of that. By the time she's made it crystal clear to you what is happening, the decision has already been made. "You should have known this was coming, I gave you a million signs that this is where we were heading..." followed by "and you just didn't care!" or "and you were too stupid to understand." or simply "and now I'm done."

It sucks, it really does. It sucks because, in most situations I think, these two people really loved each other, but poor communication doomed them. It sucks because if she had been able to better communicate her concerns to her husband (or if he had been more attuned to her method of communication) earlier on, I think most marriages there could be saved.

In every case, both individuals contributed to the mess, and I'm sure that's the case in your marriage as well. When there is adultery involved, that choice becomes solely the responsibility of the wayward spouse, not the betrayed spouse. In my situation, my wife cheated on me more than once in a roughly 6-9 month period when our marriage was at our lowest. I still absolutely accept a majority of the responsibility for our marriage sinking to that point, to the point at which my wife became hopelessly depressed about her situation and thus very susceptible to the interest of other manipulative men. Her decision to cross that line however is her responsibility/fault alone, and you really need to realize that as well. Do NOT beat yourself up for that, seriously.


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## cdbaker

Just keep focusing on working on yourself. Be cordial to her, but do not seek her out, do not text, do not call, do not follow her or ask others about her. The natural response in a scenario like this is often to rapidly try to control the situation as much as possible. The reality is that she is going to do whatever she wants to do at this point, regardless of what you say or do. So it's best that you just accept that you have no control over the situation, try to calm down, and focus on what you can control. It will be better for you that way, and if there is a prayer's chance of the marriage being saved down the road, it will only make you appear far more confident and attractive to her. (and other women too!)


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## k91

Well I done f'd up again. I told her I really loved her still and got the its over we need to divorce speech. I'm circling the bowl as they say I guess. I really really doubt there is any chance of saving things. I just always believed two people get married in the first place for a reason but I guess that reason is dead. Wow I thought I was depressed earlier today...moving on by asking alexandria helps some. Guess I made the bed I lie in.


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## FormerVictim

k91 said:


> Well I done f'd up again. I told her I really loved her still and got the its over we need to divorce speech. I'm circling the bowl as they say I guess. I really really doubt there is any chance of saving things. I just always believed two people get married in the first place for a reason but I guess that reason is dead. Wow I thought I was depressed earlier today...moving on by asking alexandria helps some. Guess I made the bed I lie in.


If you continue to reach out to her in that weak fashion, there is no hope.

Have you had any counseling?


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## k91

FormerVictim said:


> If you continue to reach out to her in that weak fashion, there is no hope.
> 
> Have you had any counseling?


No the stupid counselors do not call me back. I believe the only way to get attention is if you are in the ER threatening to kill yourself. I'm not someone to ask for help unless I really need it but I feel like I am not taken seriously.

And she is such a piece of sh$t why do I care? She told me she has no romantic feelings for me. My heart is breaking and my best friend is not even available how do you guys pull through this??:scratchhead:


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## the guy

k91 said:


> No the stupid counselors do not call me back. I believe the only way to get attention is if you are in the ER threatening to kill yourself. I'm not someone to ask for help unless I really need it but I feel like I am not taken seriously.
> 
> And she is such a piece of sh$t why do I care? She told me she has no romantic feelings for me. My heart is breaking and my best friend is not even available how do you guys pull through this??:scratchhead:


After the hurt you get pissed!
So pissed you become calm and collected...knowing that you are confident enough to let this POS go for the THIRD AND LAST TIME!!!!!!

You get through this crap loving your self more then some POS that stabbed your in the back 3X.

You get through this by telling your self you deserve good things.

You get through this by respecting your self enough to say enough is enough.


Add if I find out you went back to this POS I will find you and kick your @ss!!! Cuz that's what friends do to other friend that do stupid sh!T.


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## FormerVictim

k91 said:


> No the stupid counselors do not call me back. I believe the only way to get attention is if you are in the ER threatening to kill yourself. I'm not someone to ask for help unless I really need it but I feel like I am not taken seriously.
> 
> And she is such a piece of sh$t why do I care? She told me she has no romantic feelings for me. My heart is breaking and my best friend is not even available how do you guys pull through this??:scratchhead:


Do you have a safe person to speak with?


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## k91

Well does it count for anything that I know I'm being a dumbass and seek help?

I have a close friend I talk to and he certainly echos what you all say. I think I realize she is a liar and a cheater but my heart will not accept it yet. It takes time I guess. My buddy says and I hope this is not too inappropriate a new set of mammaries will help me get over it LOL


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## FormerVictim

k91 said:


> Well does it count for anything that I know I'm being a dumbass and seek help?
> 
> I have a close friend I talk to and he certainly echos what you all say. I think I realize she is a liar and a cheater but my heart will not accept it yet. It takes time I guess. My buddy says and I hope this is not too inappropriate a new set of mammaries will help me get over it LOL


Many people that find themselves in your situation take that shortcut and - for a time - believe they've put it in the past and attempt to move forward.

Yet, it's highly likely that if you don't address your internal issues, you'll find yourself in this exact same situation years down the road.

It's vitally important to pay attention to your own personal dysfunction while it's on display (now). Read NMMNG. Read Athol Kay's Married Man's Sex Life Primer. Realize that your own emotions are the real problem here - and get to work on them. Your marriage may survive or it may not. These emotions will be with you and will cripple your life always - unless you address them.


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## Regretf

cdbaker said:


> I think Mr. Fisty has it right above. Work on your co-dependancy issues first. That means focusing on yourself. Implement the 180. Focus on your needs. Start eating better, working out (get in shape), keep your home clean and tidy, do any repairs that need done, start dressing better, etc. Whether she comes to her senses and the marriage is saved or not, you'll be better off either way and a far more desirably potential mate.
> 
> I'll also share a piece of my own story that seems to relate well to yours. When I caught my wife in her 1st affair, I think she reacted much the way your wife did. Initially she was confidently, heartlessly, telling me that we were through and she she was in love with the older affair partner. He too was married, and they'd spent a couple months seeing each other nearly every weekday while I was at work, falling in love, supposedly making plans to run away together and blah blah blah. When she was busted, she was confident that they would indeed leave together, but of course his words were a bunch of garbage and he wouldn't leave his wife. Within hours changed her tune completely and wanted to come home to "work on the marriage".
> 
> All that happened was that they took the affair further underground. Burner phones, secret meetings away, etc. I caught her again and the same story played out. He was a manipulator who just enjoyed the affair, and leading her on into thinking it would be more than that. Each time she was caught, and rejected by him as well (to "run away" together), she was utterly distraught. She turned back to me only out of a deep fear of being alone with no where to go, temporarily convincing herself that we could save the marriage, maybe, but without the level of commitment necessary for it to be possible.
> 
> When she really did try to stay away from him, she made it about a week before confessing to our MC how much she desperately missed him and how depressed she was as a result, even while hating him for having lied/betrayed/used her as well. That hurt, enormously, but our MC explained it to me in a way that made sense. He said as much as it hurts, and as wrong as it is, I had to understand that she had fallen in love with this guy. He said if you imagine loving anyone, especially in the early "honeymoon period" and then suddenly losing them completely, that's going to hurt enormously. She had gone from seeing him about five days a week and texting/chatting with him for hours every day, to absolutely zero contact. She couldn't help but think of and miss him during all that extra time she found herself with. So I tried to be understanding, but eventually like a drug addict she gave in and contacted him again through another burner phone.
> 
> A lot of that has to do with her and I's relationship. We had a lot of things wrong in our marriage, many/most of them being my own fault in retrospect. I had a big head, felt that I was essentially "better than her" and knew the right way to do everything, so I was hesitant to change anything. When the affair went out, and friends/family found out, she was scorned by everyone and I was raised up as a saint for being willing to work it out with my cheater wife. She felt that if I wasn't willing/able to change or work on anything in the relationship before, I sure as heck wasn't going to be able to do so now, now that my head was even bigger feeling even more righteous than before. I feel like I reacted much the way you did, trying my best to be the perfect husband as quickly as possible, but she saw it all as fake. There was absolutely nothing I could do to convince her of anything, as she was completely convinced that every effort I made was temporary and driven completely by fear and/or a desire to manipulate/trick her into staying with me. So the time from initially catching her in the affair to moving out after finding a new even more disgusting affair partner (a master manipulator, twice her age, and went to prison as a pedophile two years ago) was about five months, full of relational up's and downs, but in hindsight I can tell you with 100% certainty that there was absolutely no way we could have saved the marriage during that time or avoided her moving out. It was all inevitable, only a matter of time.
> 
> 
> I don't know how much of that relates to your situation, but there were pieces that reminded me of it. You sound a lot like me before I had my own genuine wake up call and realized that I was really making things worse, not better. So I would definitely suggest taking the advice of others here to heart. Good Luck!


All of this is so true that it hurts to realice now. All the Little sings, words her trying to communicate to you all the things that were wrong and then you (myself and lots of men) not giving it serious thought.

Now i wish i could turn back time and do it all over again, but i (you) can't. Just keep on going forward.


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## cdbaker

k91: Turn to a friend if you can, or a pastor. Someone willing to sit and listen, buy you a beer, and even let you shed a tear or two if need be. No shame, honestly.

Just start focusing on what you can do FOR YOU, and don't worry about her. I promise, whether there is hope or not for the marriage, you'll be doing the right thing either way.


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## FormerVictim

cdbaker said:


> k91: Turn to a friend if you can, or a pastor. Someone willing to sit and listen, buy you a beer, and even let you shed a tear or two if need be. No shame, honestly.
> 
> Just start focusing on what you can do FOR YOU, and don't worry about her. I promise, whether there is hope or not for the marriage, you'll be doing the right thing either way.


Yet, beware those who advise you to continue codependent behavior. You're not going to nice her out of this.


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## Orange_Pekoe

k91 said:


> This will be a long story so bear with me. I'll begin at the beginning. About 8 years ago the wife and I were in a rough place. Long story short I came home from work one Friday and she was gone. No note nothing. I called my buddy in desperation and he immediately came over to console me. It turns out she got a hotel room with this guy and well early the next morning called me begging to take her back. I did no questions asked and forgave her although it took a long time to get over it.
> 
> Fast forward to the beginning of last year. I intercepted some lets say interesting communications and went into a panic. Throwing myself on the ground outside I called my father in law who assured me I was being crazy and she would never do that. Now bear in mind neither her parents or my own ever knew about the stuff from 8 years ago. They only knew we were fighting...I wonder why? Anyways I knew she had this male "friend" who I believed was being kind and helping her through another rough patch for us. Again long story short communications became friendlier and friendlier and she is in "love" with him. I am devastated. Eventually late last summer I again confront her about the affair and she more or less comes clean about it and says we are through.
> 
> I am grief stricken. My best friend of 18 years has not only cheated on me but replaced me with a much, much older man. Yes the plot thickens. The next morning she does an about face and wants to work things out. I feel as if my heart started beating again. I do everything she wants to do for the next week. Any home project immediately accomplished. She even wanted me to upgrade my wardrobe...done no protest. Then I am in the middle of one home improvement project with my buddy and she tells me she can't stop thinking about dude and has to text him again. Once more I feel the pain.
> 
> So fast forward to now she wants a divorce and her own place and me out of her life. She is the love of my life. I cannot imagine living without her. She is the mother of our child and we've been through everything together.
> 
> I am actively seeking therapy but they do not call back. I feel so lost. Is there any hope? She is firm on the I love you but I am not in love with you speech. I want to tell her how I feel but it seems to contradict some of the information I have read. One person says it will make you look weak another says you have to destroy the affair at all costs but that seems like I would even lose her as a friend.
> 
> Ok next post will be about what I did wrong to drive her away maybe I should have started with that?


You should go to a therapist, or counsellor, on your own. They will help you talk through your feelings. It will also help you discover that you are an individual who is worthy of respect, dignity, and who has the right to be happy. You are allowing your wife to take all those three things away from you - not to mention your self confidence. 

She cheated. You took her back without questions. She's cheated again - you still want her back. This is where you need to stop listening to your heart and start listening to your head. It's becoming a cycle of her using you when she wants you, and leaving you when she doesn't. You deserve better. Don't you want to be a good role model for your child? You want your child growing up, knowing that it's not acceptable for spouses to cheat on each other. Be that example, stand up for yourself.

Pain is a part of life, but it sounds to me like you're so afraid of the pain that you're letting it devastate you to the point of being crushed. That isn't healthy. Instead, let the pain do it's job, which is, teach you important life lessons. Learn. And as you move on, you'll find out you are MUCH STRONGER than you ever thought.

She will not treat you right, she will cheat on you again. You can't change her behaviour, but you can change yours. If I were in your shoes, I would not allow her to do that to me again, I'd leave.

Good luck, have faith in yourself.


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## Orange_Pekoe

k91 said:


> No the stupid counselors do not call me back. I believe the only way to get attention is if you are in the ER threatening to kill yourself. I'm not someone to ask for help unless I really need it but I feel like I am not taken seriously.
> 
> And she is such a piece of sh$t why do I care? She told me she has no romantic feelings for me. My heart is breaking and my best friend is not even available how do you guys pull through this??:scratchhead:


Take it one day and one step at a time.
And set short term goals for yourself, ie. paint a room, do some kind of home improvement project, read a book. SOMETHING to keep you busy and focused and make you feel good when it's done.


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