# Need advice.. It may be too long but I have a lot to say



## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

My wife and I are going through a rough time. Married for 8yrs but together for 14yrs and we recently both admitted to each other that we love each other but are not "in love with each other" It has been this way for years and I do not know what to do and I really could use some advice and insight as to why she is the way she is. Here is a history of relationship and I will keep it brief as possible. 

We were friends in H.S. and we always had a thing for each other but everytime one of us was not dating the other one was. Well senior year came and she got pregnant by someone else and I wasn't dating anyone and the "donor" went to jail. We got together because her being pregnant did not bother me and I figured it would be no difference if I waited 2yrs and she had a 2yr old child. It would be a lot easier to help raise the child as my own from the beginning versus trying to jump in a few years later. I adopted her shortly after we married. 

We get along great and there is barely any fighting. The only thing that keeps coming up is the no sex or affection on her part. She flat out said she can go the rest of her life without sex which I do believe. We tried counseling 2yrs ago and the counselor told her that your husband comes first and then the kids. But here issue is reversed. Kids have and always will come first. My son who is 6yrs old just recently got out of our bed and into his own room(which was another agruement) 6yrs of having a kid sleep between us did a lot of damage to the relationship. No matter how hard I tried I get shot down and I am tired of the constant rejection. No matter if I try to kiss her, hug her or have sex there is always an excuse for why she can not. She doesn't want to go out with her friends or myself for that matter 

So last weekend we discussed this and she suggested a 
"live-in seperation" I work nights and she works days and the only time we really see each other is the weekends and that is when we are always doing something with the kids. I started sleeping on the couch for two reasons. 1) I get mad when I am shot down and 2) she wont feel that the expectation of sex is there nightly when we go to bed or when I come home from work and try to wake her up. We both barely hang out with our friends and she suggested that we start doing things seperately so we both have time alone, talk a little less on the phone,(both of us constantly call each other) and there will be definitely no seeing of other people. One of the issues I am having with this is what little affection I do get or give is gonna go away. The kiss before she leaves for work or the I love you when we get off the phone. Because it just has been all routine I am not sure how to act when this happens. Last night before she went to bed there was no I love you and it crushed me. This morning when she left for work there was no kiss, again crushed. 

My whole thing with all of this is I don't feel that a seperation is needed we just need to get the romance back and I afraid that if we stop the routine things that it will only make matters worse or push us farther apart. I think if we start dating each other it will work itself out in time but she doesn't want to hear that. She feels that she needs to get her life back in order and get the relationship with her friends back and have time to herself but I think that we need to work on us before anything else. Maybe I am wrong or just being selfish. 

Please any advice will be greatly appreciated


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

you are a very smart man. You don't need a separation...you do need to put "Intimacy" back in your marriage. Hold on...that isn't jsut sex. It's closeness...that you have before sex.

I know...men see sex differently than women do. So...try to think like a woman on this. I know when I was hurt at my husband...I didnt' want sex either. I felt like he didn't love me....and I sure didn't have tingly feelings for him...but....It's a mind over matter isssue.

I said it a thousand times..."IN love" is not something to be comepared with LOVE. "In love' is a hormone...chemical reaction that comes from attraction.....it is always placed above true love...which is wrong. that stupid feeling always passed over time...but true love lasts.....You can bring back that tingly 'in love' feeling by trying to get it back...looking at your spouse differently on purpose. It is all in our minds. Love...true love...is a choice. not an emotion. You love your kids...but you are not in love with them..yet it's one of the strongest loves we know.....funny huh.

I understand the kid in the bed thing....and your wife sounds like me....a bit over protective...and understanding...not anger will help that.

I know I have recommended this to almost everyone..but I really love this book..."love dare'. It teaches us to love unselfishly....and it is wonderful...but it's for you.....not to fix her..but to fix you. She is the only one who can fix herself.....ok? But changes in your attitude(not that I think you did anything wrong) will help her....wait and see. Actions begat reactions. She wants to put the kid first...your reaction is anger...what is her reaction? Anger...worse anger.....withdrawl from you.

Now...she wants to put the kids first...your reaction....understanding....compassion...tendernesss...what is her reaction....? 

Yes...you do need to date her...you should always date your wife....but let me be clear...from what you have said...you are one heck of a guy. Is she depressed. Not that I think she needs meds or anything...but she sounds depressed. Try the Love dare....just try it. Dont' tell her....but try it. And dont' give her the separation....show her more UN sexual attention. 

I did the best I could....but if you post more about what is going on...I'll try to help. Hang in there..read some other posts....you can see how bad others have it on here and you might feel a bit better about your situation....and it helps to help others....

Gosh...good luck.


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

Thanks for the input. I truly understand where you are coming from. She was on meds for depression after our son was born and stopped taking them maybe 3yrs ago. I am truly against her taking these and felt that she did not need them so she stopped. Well about 3 weeks ago as we started to discuss our relationship and the issues and she confided in me by saying that she feels that she needs to go back on them because she is depressed. I was supportive and told her to call the doctor the following morning and that it would stay between us. Her family new about the previous use and would make comments once in a while when she had a breakdown. 

She is a nanny for a family and is constantly around kids day and night with little or no interaction with adults besides myself or family. She feels worthless in her job. She is going to school to become a radiologists and will find out at the end of this year if she will be excepted into the program. I know she will make it cause she is very smart but she has her doubts and is scared to face everyone if she does not get accepted. The program only takes in so many students each year at the junior college by our house. 

We both have been saying for a long time that we feel as if we are living with our best friend. Maybe that is sinking into her head and is why the way she because I know I would not be intimate with my best friend and the same for her. I just cant get through to her about this whole "seperation" thing. We just need to be able to do things together w/o the kids. From the time we started until now it has been kids and then us. We never really done the whole dating and courting thing, going to the bars when you turn 21 or anything like normal people who start a relationship do. We both had to grow up really fast because we had a daughter at a young age.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Ok...first mistake...she is your best friend...and that is a wonderful thing....your spouse should be your best friend...and it is okay to be intimate considering that. And as far as courting and bars and crap...its over rated and usually does more harm than good.... But....dating is something you should do...with her.

Also....it's tough to be around kids all day...nanny business is not for everyone....no wonder she is feeling low.....I love my kids...but adult interaction is very important....sounds like she feels like she has not purpose. 

I was right about one thing...she does need lots of support and understanding....but that doesn't mean being a door mat. She probably doesn't need medication...but that is a choice you two should make.....I took meds for depression and had adverse effects..and exercise...sunshine and carbs work wonders on depression. that coupled with a loving spouse...and she would probably feel tons better. Though I commend you for your support. I know it's alot to ask...but really I think if you jsut doubled your efforts to love her endlessly.....unconditionally that she would snap out of her rut a little bit at a time. 

I know it's tough to have a family.....then be married...but....you dont' have to give up your life...the husband should come before the kids....however....if the husband is a good husband..then the wife will come before ANYTHING ELSE....then the kids will fall right inot place...almost side by side with you....love will trickle down..no it will rush down in a waterfall. but the more you fight her on the kids...the more she will pull away from you.

Sorry.....life sure isn't fair....but I truely think you got a good shot at fixing this....really. Better than most on here.


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

I went out an bought the Love Dare book and started it yesterday. My only question is do I let my wife know I am doing this and try to get her to do it as well? Because right now there is still barely an affection between and I am really worried that by not doing the things we have been doing, as mentioned above will do more harm then good. It hurts everytime I talk to her there is no I love you when we hang up the phone or the kiss before she leaves for work. I am going crazy


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

Just do it. Don't tell her, she will see the things you are doing. First it will be annoying to her, as the things will not be the stuff you normally do. Then after the annoying and angry start going away, she will start to notice a real change in what you do. You can let on later. Just do it... And REALLY do it, put your heart soul and mind into it. It is a growth thing.

I keep doing a few, then get beat down and stop. Then do a few more, then get beat down. Right now I am on a down point. I just got papers served to me. I hope to get back up in a few days, and keep growing and chaging. Life stinks, but you gotta keep trying to be better.


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## DeniseK (Jun 25, 2009)

Do it in private...you will see why later on in the book...it's only 40 days...so that isn't so hard. And don't stop anywhere except the end....if you are serious about your wife. It is very important to so it this way. You can double up on dares....if necessary...but don't do it often....adn remember to pay very close attention to detail....
I think you can do this....Good luck...don't get frustrated...If you need moral support.....just ask


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## H8M32DAY (Oct 16, 2008)

Why were you so against her taking meds for depression? For a lot of people it makes a huge difference. Depression can really drag a person down. I've been on them for years- without them I wouldn't be much more than a lifeless body flopped down on the couch.


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## no1.daddy2kids (Jul 29, 2009)

meds have multiple factors. Some good, some bad. Depending on the individual, the bads may outweigh the goods. Looking back, I wish W did not do the meds she did. I think they did not do much for her depression, and made her pull back from any emotion at all. Maybe she should have tried something else, but they really did not do much for her or us.

If you do go that route, make sure to be open with your doctor on what is happening and how you feel.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

When you are around younger kids, as a stay at home mom and nanny, you are going to feel "touched out." That is the way, I used to feel when my kids were young. I was contantly holding, feeding, or cleaning a kid. No personal space or time until bedtime rolled around. Then, my H at that time, was touchy-feely when he came home....a hug, poke, grind, etc. When the kids went to bed guess what he wanted....more touching! 

I am just saying this may be a consideration for your wife. With my H...I felt that if I let him hug, touch, kiss...then he wanted sex. He probably did but I was not at that point. 

Make sure you court your wife. Not for sexual reasons...however if done properly without the expectations of sex you MAY be surprised.

By the way....often the kid sleeping with you can be a buffer against having sex. That way, she doesn't have to be intimate or repel your advances.

Ask her out with no kids and no expectations. Congrats. on getting the love dare. I heard it was a pretty good program.


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

Corpuswife you hit the nail on the head. Did you change the way you acted towards him? We talked about the situation again today because 3 times last week she said I can sleep in the bed with her but the only reason she asked was because our son was in it already. I told her no and slept on the couch anyway. I brought this up and the whole seperation thing today and she was saying that she does not know how to act differently. I can't tell her or guide her on how to act towards me but I know that she can do it. She has done it before. I tried to explain to her that this seperation thing she wants does not work for our situation. SHe is stuck on how it worked for two of her friends and that they are better now but both of those couples did not get along and fought alot. We are not like that. We just need the romance back. I told her that sex was at the bottom of the list of things to get right in our marriage and I am hoping she can realize that. Sleeping on the couch has made me realize what I have put her through in that aspect of the relationship and that is the least of my worries. 

As far as the meds go I just felt that after being on them for about 3yrs after our son was born that she did not need them. Maybe I was wrong but I was against them at that time. Now I am more open because of the way she told me she feels about everything in her life and I truly do hope that they work for her and us.


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

What to do now? I am so confused and I am ready to give up. Before I left for work today we had another discussion about this and she basically said the same things that she is not "in love with me" and that she has never been affectionate and probably will never be(which is true for the most part) she can be if she wanted to. I tried to tell her that "WE" needed to act like today was the last day we would ever see or speak to each other and she pretty much blew it off and said that she is not sure of what she wants. After 14yrs how could you not know what you want? I am done trying. Everytime we hug or kiss I know that she only does it because I initiate it. Even when we say I love you to each other I have to be the one to say it first. I actually stopped all of it on Tuesday and here we are and it is Friday and nothing. This is what started the conversation today because I have been short with her and not speaking much. 

I gave up on the love dare book and I think I am starting to lose hope in our marriage. It is hard to fix something when it is only one sided. I don't know if I should give the space that she wants, leave or stay and wait? Our anniversary is 9/8 and I went out and bought her a necklace and have made dinner reservations and got a room booked at a fancy hotel in the city but I wonder if I should even bother.


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

Yes, things started to change with my H. As the kids got older and I got older..I was more sexually active and affectionate. Maybe not as much as he wanted but more.

Also, with depression you often have the absence of feeling including intimate sexual feeling. Touching is a chore. I had depression for several years. It's a very selfish disorder. Sometimes when you are a mom you "lose yourself." I know that I did. I am still finding my way but the process of finding myself is more enjoyable. 

My depression was one of the things that broke down my marriage. He was always trying to make things right. He never told me once he was unhappy over those years. He was a happy go lucky guy on the outside. If I would have only known. 

Last summer we went through a crisis with our son and the ball to marital unhappiness started rolling. Then the market crash around Oct. 08 and my husband was stressed. He gave me the no longer "in love" words. From them on he might have been a cardboard box. He started getting depressed.....well really last summer. I noticed his drinking increased.

My h is not a emotionally expressive person and he didn't know what to do with his emotions. 

Fast forward: We are now separated for 6 weeks. I had tried everything including MC. He 1/2 way participated in MC. That won't work!

My goal is to reconcile with my H. He felt the grass is greener and wanted to be alone. That is part of the depression. Yes. He's still active and rides his bike on a team and works, but inside he's depressed. 

Don't give up on the Love Dare book. From what I gather you may not get reactions until near the end. It's frustrating when the other person isn't reactive. 

Keep your anniversary reservation but don't expect sex. I know difficult. No relationship talk or kids talk (if you can help it). Ask about what she would like to do when the kids are older. Ask what she would like to do if she had a million dollars? Start conversation that way. Laugh if you can.


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

That all makes sense but my problem I am having now is I am at that point where I keep telling myself its over so this way I am not as heartbroken if or when the big "D" happens. Like you said, I am basically doing what your husband is doing. I am shutting all the doors and windows and taking it day by day. Friday night when I posted this I was upset and the more I thought about this the more upset and depressed I got. I finally told myself after talking to her later that night and bringing it up once again that I was done. She said we would talk about it in the morning and I told her that I wasn't gonna bring it up again. 

Well Saturday morning came and nothing was said. I didn't bring anything up nor did she. We actually had a good day and night. I was talking and happy. Then Sunday morning came and I went golfing with my father n law and I started to think about the situation again and was almost in tears on the course. I lost my father when I was 19 and I am really close to her Dad and her family more than mine own. If I lose her, I will lose basically everyone I am close with and care deeply for. So the rest of the day yesterday I spent not really speaking to her or anyone else and kept to myself. We went out to dinner with her parents and her Mom said something about me being so quiet and her Dad did the same earlier while we were golfing. I want to say something to them but I can't. It hurts so much and the more I think about it the angerier I get with her because I am going to lose everything I have close to me if this does not turn around


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## Corpuswife (Apr 24, 2009)

I know you want to shut down and not feel the pain. Makes sense. The pain will come out one way or another. For my H...for the first time in his life became an angry, negative person. Very strange.

It's normal to think those thoughts regarding losing family. I did also. The in laws told me, when they found out what was happening, "we love you and want you happy. We are still a part of your family." I understood this but know if my H and I move on...really move on (new relationships etc) our interactions with in-laws with be limited.

What are you doing to change things? Are you doing the Love Dare? Will you go to counseling?


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## Woody (Aug 17, 2009)

I started the Love Dare and stopped. I just feel that no matter what I say or do isnt going to help anything or change her mind. We did counseling a few years ago when we were going through a ruff patch then and basically the counselor told her that she needed to put her husband in front of the kids and everything else and she will not do that. I brought up counseling again and she said that they are going to tell us the same thing so why bother... 

Earlier this year we talk about things and told me that she was getting burnt out on taking care of the kids she nannies and then ours when she gets home, cleaning the house on her days off. I started to do that for her since I work nights and have free time during the day. Cleaning, washing, folding and putting away clothes anything to help her out. I realy think she needs to quit her job and find soemthing else while she is still in school. She will get more adult interaction and maybe aome peace of mind. What else can I do? It seems that you are in a similiar situation......


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## JennaRae (Sep 1, 2009)

I am currently reading a marriage book that is helping us in alot of areas. I know most men aren't readers, but you can get the audio if you prefer. It's called: His needs, Her needs for parents by Willard E. Harley Jr. Just try it, it couldn't hurt.


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