# Men and dancing...



## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Okay, so bear with me here. Last night I couldn't sleep so I stayed up watching a show on the Travel Channel called "Dance the World". It was a fascinating journey about a classically trained dancer who is travelling the world to explore various cultures and the dances that encompass it. Last night, she was in Brazil learning the Samba. The dance school where she was training was equally mixed with both men and women. It seemed everywhere she went, men loved to dance. It was a part of their blood and just as natural as breathing.
This got me thinking about other cultures and how men dancing is considered dominate. The inability to dance in many countries is considered weak. Greece, Spain, Italy, Russia, nearly all of Latin America, the Middle East and Africa. These are cultures dominated by men and the men there dance freely and are seen as strong men for doing so.
In the case of last nights episode, the teacher of the Samba school was a thin, small man who wasn't good looking. The women however, thought he was a God and the men wanted to be him. He commanded respect by dancing.
So my question is, why is dancing in the U.S. or say England/Canada considered to be unmanly/un dominate or worse, gay? It really got me thinking and I do not understand this. 
Curious about the thoughts of men here on this. :scratchhead:


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I certainly don't understand. I am, without a doubt, the only man under 55 in my current ballroom dancing class. I'm not at all good at it, but the 60 year old women with 60 year old husbands certainly seem to treat me like I am. My wife and I took classes under different settings for the last five years. We'll go a few months, then something happens and we'll take a break for a year or so before going back. We rarely see younger men in the classes. I think it picked up with the TV shows, but never really stuck.

Yes, most men laugh when I admit that we're taking lessons. I actually started so that I could take my daughter to a ball, but my wife and I kept going. Something about putting on that tux seems to get things flowin for the wife, though.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

It's a "cultural" thing regarding dancing. Some countries--people love to dance, it's passionate, and in some, not so much.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

Not a man, but I don't mind stomping through here with muddy boots.

My guess is that our culture does not prize or value men who dance for many different reasons - it's often thought to be a sissy, feminine, or gay kind of thing.

It's obvious that there are other cultures as you noted where dancing - the ultimate in a flamboyant freedom of physical expression short of actually having sex maybe - is prized in other cultures. Men are raised to see it as a manly thing to do in those cultures. It would be interesting to know whether when the dancing became a manly thing to do in those cultures if it was because their women saw it as an attractive thing and therefore the men continued to do it, or how it actually started.

In some of those cultures, the dance is seen as a kind of macho, almost sexual thing (I'm thinking in the Latin cultures). Beats me why guys here can't get in to it. Watching guys dance some of those dances like the ***** or tango is pretty hot. No wonder they're encouraged to do it. 

In other cultures - think of Native American - dance was actually really important in many rites - not the least of which were mainly "manly" pursuits - rites of passage for young men coming of age and to build up their passions prior to going to war.

I think I saw posted before someone saying that only men can define masculinity. But I think that many, many things shape that definition within a culture - one is what women find attractive in men, one is what men find as attractive qualities for a man to have, and one is what men think women find attractive. 

It's obvious in the cultures you mentioned, the freedom of expression and ability to dance is actually considered a masculine trait. Nice to see.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Enchantment said:


> Not a man, but I don't mind stomping through here with muddy boots.
> 
> My guess is that our culture does not prize or value men who dance for many different reasons - it's often thought to be a sissy, feminine, or gay kind of thing.
> 
> ...


Very well said. I thought similar things but couldn't articulate it as well as you can. I also think dance and sex go hand in hand. It just seemed, in the show I watched that one couldn't help notice that these people were highly sexual. The dancing was almost foreplay. I think this could be true of many cultures so it boggles my mind then why this wouldn't be embraced by all men


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

I'd love to take professional dance lessons. Ballroom, samba, salsa. Anything I could. Dancing well is a skill I dont have.

When I used to go to clubs, I'd never dance at first. After a few drinks, friends and I would take over part of the floor. We danced terribly, but didnt give a f*ck. Had a good time. Shopping cart, lawn mower, everything. Some girls laughed, but then they usually joined us in the shopping cart. Thats when you knew you had them! 

Dancing is a great way to meet girls. It was all about having fun, but if a song like "Mysterious Ways" by U2 or "Come Undone" by Duran Duran comes on, that girl and I would get very close...Like sex on a dance floor!


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

My wife and I ballroom dance. We took our lessons a few years ago. During those lessons the average age was mid 40s. We had several young couples in the classes also and there were always a few more women than men. I consider myself to have two left feet but with time became comfortable and proficient with the basics of Waltz, Tango and Fox Trot. My wife took to it very naturally. I found nothing gay in the lessons nor felt any discomfort with taking them other than my initial clumsiness. When discussing it with friends, I found the men to be curious about the lessons but not particularly interested in taking them. Women tended to look at it as a very romantic gesture and something they would very much like to do with their husbands. In traditional ballroom the man leads and when it is done with confidence and style it can be quite alluring. We enjoyed the lessons very much and try to dance when we can at weddings and such. But most weddings these days don't cater much to ballroom.  It is interesting however when a DJ follows the Electric Slide with something like Charade and my wife and I go out and do a Waltz on a nearly deserted dance floor. We get a lot of questions from women on how long we've been dancing and my wife always seem very happy to volunteer that taking lessons was my idea. I think it is seen as very romantic and if you have an opportunity to take lessons, do so.


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

It's generally a vicious cycle. Men hate men that can dance. Primarily because women love men that can dance.

For most guys, I think it is fear of the unknown, not appearing clumsy, as opposed to actually reviling the ability to dance.

It is an elegant form of communication and expression. I truly think it is therapeutic in terms of working through things with a spouse. It's probably money better spent than counseling in some cases.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

I love to dance but have never taken the professional classes. It would be fun I bet. As a little girl, my dream was to grow up and become a professional flamenco dancer.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Deejo said:


> I truly think it is therapeutic in terms of working through things with a spouse. It's probably money better spent than counseling in some cases.


Very astute Deej, we took them when everything was pretty much broken in our marriage. It gave us a common interest to work on together. We had a lot of fun with the lessons and both looked forward to them each week. The close physical proximity didn't hurt either.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Okay, I guess I should have been a tad more clear. Yes, most men at some point in their lives take a ballroom dance class. Either as part of social ettiquite or right before they get married for their first dance. 
I was referring more to the type of dance that is "feeling the beat". The let yourself go, shake your butt kind of dance. The cultures I mentioned all seem to have this in common and the men are definately not seen as weak for doing so. 
Maybe we are more repressed?


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## cherrypie18 (Feb 21, 2010)

It is a cultural thing. I come from one of those kind of cultures where most men dance and have a blast. 

In most of those countries people have folk dancing and they usually dance to their own folk music at parties - weddings, engagements, and other celebrations. They do play international pop songs too but not that much. There are clubs for that. 

If a man doesn't dance, he's considered somewhat self conscious and shy. If a man _can_ dance and dances well, he's seen as strong and confident.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

I was raised in a danceless home and danceless culture, even though my mom has strong irish roots and was a world class highland dancer.

For me dancing is literally one of the hardest challenges... I've been trying to push myself and am proud when I do, but it is by no means any fun at all, no matter what kind whether its at a night club, wedding, slow dance, fast dance, etc. I love music though and have a lot of rythym, just can't let the places between my ankles and wrists move with it. I sure wish it wasn't such an exhausting outlet because it makes me feel so weak, I am so inadequate on the dance floor and my wife decided that one of the most important things she needs is someone who she can keep up with on the floor - for her how I represent on the floor is how I represent in every aspect of my life, and which I've allowed to make true, and feels like such a stupid reason our marriage didn't work out.

Part of me being whole I think means letting go of the idea I will be a dancer, because I'm not and I honestly don't think its something I will ever be able to do. And I need to be fine with that instead of feeling inadequate about it because it just makes me weak to have wishful thinking about it. But then, how do I get by in places where dancings is part of the custom?


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Deejo said:


> It's generally a vicious cycle. Men hate men that can dance. Primarily because women love men that can dance.
> 
> For most guys, I think it is fear of the unknown, not appearing clumsy, as opposed to actually reviling the ability to dance.
> 
> It is an elegant form of communication and expression. I truly think it is therapeutic in terms of working through things with a spouse. It's probably money better spent than counseling in some cases.


Totally agree. It was amazing to watch these people. They all seemed so happy and free, even in the worst parts of town. Dance is therapy and it helped them bond with one another. 
I wish more men would embrace this and view it as not a weakness but a sign of strength. Plus it's one hell of a workout.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

and by the way, just because I can't dance doesn't mean I fall short in other areas, I'm an amazing lover.


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## Kobo (May 13, 2010)

I think you guys are thinking too deep. In the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s men danced and it wasn't seen as feminine. The dances were formal and you had a "lead" role for the men. Then the music changed. Really how can you really "dance" to Rock, pop, or Hip Hop. The music in the U.S. today doesn't allow much for dancing so men don't master it unless they are looking to become a professional dancer.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Kobo said:


> I think you guys are thinking too deep. In the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s men danced and it wasn't seen as feminine. The dances were formal and you had a "lead" role for the men. Then the music changed. Really how can you really "dance" to Rock, pop, or Hip Hop. The music in the U.S. today doesn't allow much for dancing so men don't master it unless they are looking to become a professional dancer.


That is an excellent point! It did become a solo act. 
The thing is, samba (Brazillian) is a solo act and most of these cultures have embraced Western music, yet still dance freely. 
Also, in the African American community, men dancing solo is standard so is it more of anglo saxon repression? Interesting stuff that I have no answers for.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

Same with figure skating, gymnastics.... my friend's son was phenomenal at gymnastics, like her probably could have been potential olympic material (or at least got himself a fine college scholarship) and he quit because of the horrendous teasing and taunting he took over it at school. Sad.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Secret Desire....

I sincerly believe that within every North American male is a secret desire to learn how to dance.

I believe that the American male aversion to dance is fairly recent, post WWII. Look at the old movies, almost always dance in some way was invovled.....Johy Wayne danced in some of his movies - most often in a military uniform. The popular music at the time was dance music. Almost every town had dance halls. 

Some thing happended that turned things around to the point it is harder to get the average american male on a dance floor that getting them to get a root canal without meds. 


I grew up in a non-dancing Latino family but our house was filled with music. I lived with my aunt during the summer between high school and college, she is a dancer and insisted I learned some of the Latin dances, I did and I enjoyed the exercise and I enjoyed the time spent with the young 20 something women on her dance team. 

I continued dancing Latin in college, not much opportunity to dance in college since I hate hip-hop and the other forms common in college at the time.

In my 2nd year I was asked to do a dance demonstration during a festival on campus, I did. The expected happended, most of my male friends teased me but the unexpected thing was that I was inudated by women who wanted to learn Latin dance especially Salsa and Cumbia. 

Soon I had a girlfriend who by all common sense was out of my league. Some of my "smart" male friends asked me to teach them as when ready we hit the Latin clubs and soon they were hooked up "out of their league".

On a side note, the 4 male friends who took up dancing, from my friend group at the time are the most succesful of the group post college.......smart strategic thinking....1) Get out of comfort zone, 2) Learn to dance, 3)Meet beautiful fit women who want to dance with who, & 4) Enjoy to vareity or find the "one".

Guys, I am single male professoinal who has no problems meeting women...I am not a 10, would say 7 or 8 but I meet, dance and date 10s. 

Think about it guys, spend four or five months taking Salsa lessons, go to a Salsa club ask any unattached women to dance, show your stuff *(as new male blood you are being watched and the girl you dance with will share with her girlfirends how well, how confident, and how strong your lead to the other ladies so be confident and strong - their are specific classes in how to lead.)*

Within no time you will have beautiful sexy women in tight short skirts and high heels lining up wanting to melt their body into yours like melted butter..........life does not get any better.

Married couples, know this..if you take up Latin dance as a couple and you go to the clubs, at least the clubs, that I go to, but seem it is the norm in the Latin dance community - their is a difference on how you dance with someones wife/husband or girlfriend/boyfriend than you do with unattached women/men. 

Each dancer controls the intamency, closeness, sexyness of the dance, the male leads and offers a move, the female responds to the degress she is comfortable with, the male reacts and so on----those dancers who don't respect the non-invatation for sexy close soon find thems selves with out dance partners. 

I can't speak for the other styles, Latin dance is all about communication and trust....how can that not help or develop a relationship.

*Guys, learn to dance...........good exercise and an increadable way to meet women. Your guy friends will tease you but they will secretly envy you!*


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, I guess I should have been a tad more clear. Yes, most men at some point in their lives take a ballroom dance class. Either as part of social ettiquite or right before they get married for their first dance.
> I was referring more to the type of dance that is "feeling the beat". The let yourself go, shake your butt kind of dance. The cultures I mentioned all seem to have this in common and the men are definately not seen as weak for doing so.
> Maybe we are more repressed?


You make ballroom dancing seem so asexual. If you take it before the geriatric days, it is for foreplay. A waltz is usually only the first thing learned, and then you get to learn how to throw her around a bit, or the sensual touching of a romantic dance. Most of the dance we are currently learning is fifties dance style. Problem is, my instructor lets the women choose their partners, so I don't get to do this to my wife until we practice. Our entire purpose for taking classes was because we have always danced under candlelight before making love, so it was great to do something other than variations of the ritual dance I learned as a kid when my grandmother took me to meet her tribe, or the side to side swaying of a slow dance.

The problem is, as others have stated, that we don't have a cultural dance in many areas, and the stuff we did in college just looks goofy on a forty year old.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Calif,
You bring a smile to my face and hope to my heart. Nothing sexier than a confident man who can dance. Nothing.
After watching the show last night, I am signing up for lessons. Hopefully my husband wishes to join me. As Deejo rightfully said, sometimes dancing can be better than any therapist. 
Men, learn to dance. So sexy and VERY dominant.


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> Same with figure skating, gymnastics.... my friend's son was phenomenal at gymnastics, like her probably could have been potential olympic material (or at least got himself a fine college scholarship) and he quit because of the horrendous teasing and taunting he took over it at school. Sad.


Yes, it is coming from School and from parents. My daughter has been dancing for 11 years and is going to college this year as a dance major. Her dance instructor says that the brothers of the girls in the company are usually discouraged by the parents from joining. The parents want the boys to do more manly sports. So in the end the only boy dancers are ones that tend to be effiminate or gay. 

It was true for her high school as well very few high school boys joined dance and most were teased by their friends. There is a perception that dance is not manly and that those that dance are gay. So since most boys don't want to seen as gay so they don't join dance.

This is just another problem with gender roles in our society.


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## lisa3girls (Apr 6, 2011)

meson said:


> Yes, it is coming from School and from parents. My daughter has been dancing for 11 years and is going to college this year as a dance major. Her dance instructor says that the brothers of the girls in the company are usually discouraged by the parents from joining. The parents want the boys to do more manly sports. So in the end the only boy dancers are ones that tend to be effiminate or gay.
> 
> It was true for her high school as well very few high school boys joined dance and most were teased by their friends. There is a perception that dance is not manly and that those that dance are gay. So since most boys don't want to seen as gay so they don't join dance.
> 
> This is just another problem with gender roles in our society.



And I can tell you, the figure skaters are STRONG... my 10 year old girl could probably take down many of the athletic boys in her class.. whether in a race, push ups, sit ups.. you name it.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

lisa3girls said:


> Same with figure skating, gymnastics.... my friend's son was phenomenal at gymnastics, like her probably could have been potential olympic material (or at least got himself a fine college scholarship) and he quit because of the horrendous teasing and taunting he took over it at school. Sad.


I was a state ranked gymnast in high school. Large for a gymnast. 5'10" @ 185 pounds. Nobody gave me any crap.

:rofl:


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## meson (May 19, 2011)

lisa3girls said:


> And I can tell you, the figure skaters are STRONG... my 10 year old girl could probably take down many of the athletic boys in her class.. whether in a race, push ups, sit ups.. you name it.


Yes, my daughter out ran most of the boys in her class. Likewise dancers can be like gymnists and be very strong as well. It's not always about the strength though, its also about balance and endurance. I imagine that figure skaters rate highly in this as well. 

I think the problem is in our culture where we roughly equate manliness with ability in sports. Rock climbing is another place where women do well but that sport somehow has avoided the stereotypes of dance and figure skating for some reason.

I really enjoyed having my daugher who is also a Girl Scout belay my son's Boy Scout troop members on a climbing trip. It helped to show them that their notions of gender didn't quite match reality.


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

I think we do men a big disservice in our society (US) by not valuing their role in freedom of expression through dance, especially in a more professional capacity. We don't seem to have quite that same stigma for freedoms of expressioin through art (painting/sculpture) or music.

To me, this freedom of expression is not an effiminate thing - it is just a very human thing. I don't know how we could value a great male sculptor or a concert violinist, but disdain a male ballet dancer. 

I have two boys - they're involved in a wide variety of physical pursuits - soccer, baseball, hockey, and yep they did figure skating too (little one still does it because he has horrible muscle control and balance and it is one sport that will help him with that. His pediatrician even recommended it.)

Oldest boy did it as well and progressed rapidly through the ranks (and I admit that I had a VERY hard time letting him do skating because of the stereotype, so shame on me). His Russian coach could never understand it, because in his culture male skaters are highly prized - they're celebrities like rock stars. His coach used to say that only the boys/young men were really able to excel in skating because they were so much stronger and had the physiques needed. Sadly, my son dropped out of sakting due to peer pressure and now pursues more manly pursuits, like football and weightlifting. I can say the amount of training for football (months) has been nowhere near as difficult as what he had to endure to learn how to do triple jumps (years of training).

But, like someone else mentioned, some of these endeavors (skating, dance) require a very determined individual who has a lot of drive, energy, and perseverance. Nothing to sneeze at at all.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

There are a LOT of young people at the studio where I take ballroom dancing. I feel on the older side, and I'm 47! But it's probably because I'm in beginning classes. I see older people at the practice socials. 

Dance is a form of connection. So to answer the OP's question here is another question...in the US how often do you see guys getting together to hang out without alcohol or sports, just to hang out and talk? Look at other cultures and think about it. 

When Americans move, it seems to be all about fitness and losing weight and cardio and cardiovascular. When other cultures move, it's because they feel the urge to move and then they go to the dance and move. There isn't much thinking involved, it's just something that they do because they want to and they feel like it. It is a LANGUAGE. Not a sport.

In mainstream American, people seem to need a reason to do things. The culture has lost its basic instinct. 

I feel fortunate to live among people who do follow their instinct for the most part. One thing that strikes me is that you don't often hear people in my circle complaining about work or errands or chores or kids or how things are gonna be better if only.... 

To be able to dance, you need to let go of things and accept them. Work with what you've got, and to be aware and to eb with other people who are of a similar mindset. 

When people are stuck in lives so far apart from their natural origins, how can they possibly dance? They can't even hear the music. From where I am sitting I can hear the wind in the trees and birds singing. The trees are dancing. 

It's not that American men can't dance. It's just that they have forgotten that they know how, even without learning, because they have an instinct. Often when they do learn how to dance, it's not to celebrate something they already have with the instinctive knowledge that it will be attractive, but they are focused on doing it well enough to impress a woman. That's NOT dancing. It might look like dancing, but trust me, it's not.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> There are a LOT of young people at the studio where I take ballroom dancing. I feel on the older side, and I'm 47! But it's probably because I'm in beginning classes. I see older people at the practice socials.


See, now I'm really considering changing to one of the private studios. I hear that this is where all the young people go. Since my community sees fit to charge me $7k in property taxes, I go to the lower cost ones at the community center. Probably the only audience where I can be mistaken for Fred Astaire, considering that many haven't upgraded their prescriptions in 30 years.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> See, now I'm really considering changing to one of the private studios. I hear that this is where all the young people go. Since my community sees fit to charge me $7k in property taxes, I go to the lower cost ones at the community center. Probably the only audience where I can be mistaken for Fred Astaire, considering that many haven't upgraded their prescriptions in 30 years.


You could do worse than being mistaken for Fred Astaire!

BTW....I wasn't knocking ballroom dancing at all! I was saying that for me latin style and the uninhibited nature of it is vastly difference than ballroom.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Some of us men CAN dance though. Not ballroom or Flaminco...but that doesn't appeal to me culturally. Despite my size I still have rythm. In my circles you get chastized if you cant dance and your a guy. And I was born up north in Canada.  I should note though that culture is a huge factor in this.


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## Riverside MFT (Oct 5, 2009)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, I guess I should have been a tad more clear. Yes, most men at some point in their lives take a ballroom dance class. Either as part of social ettiquite or right before they get married for their first dance.
> I was referring more to the type of dance that is "feeling the beat". The let yourself go, shake your butt kind of dance. The cultures I mentioned all seem to have this in common and the men are definately not seen as weak for doing so.
> Maybe we are more repressed?


In looking at the cultures you described (South America, Spain, Italy, Greece), and then looking at the U.S. and many Western European I noticed a couple of differences. American men are driven now by success. We try hard to bring in as much income as we possibly can. The drive to become a business man, doctor, or lawyer is stronger today than it has ever been. Dance was also a part of our American Heritage before this drive for money and power. Folk dancing and square dancing were very much a part of the history of the early western United States. Waltz, fox trots, and other ballroom dances were things that many Americans knew before the drive for success became our only drive in life.

This is all sad, because I think men are becoming more passionate now about money and success than they are with the women they love.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

My studio only charges $45 for a 4-week class that meets once a week, $75 for unlimited classes, and for $115 you get unlimited classes plus 3 1/2-hour lessons. And they are good teachers. Most have other jobs too so they understand about getting good value. The practice socials are 2 hours each week for $5 if you're not a current student, on some Saturday nights they have a Milonga. There are refreshments at the socials. Parking is free usually in the evenings.

By Latin, what is meant? Because at the studio they teach Tango, Argentine Tango, Salsa, Rumba etc. It's all referred to as ballroom. But of course it's Latin. 

Haha, last week I was at the practice social and we were randomly paired up in line...I ended up with an instructor and off we went down the floor to the other end:

Me: What are we doing?
Instructor: Waltz.
Me: But I don't know how to waltz!
Instructor: Really?
By that time we were already at the end of the room. 
Apparently there's some kind of ballet stuff you do when you waltz. I'm just not feeling it. I have Cuban blood. My butt needs Rumba.

Riverside, I agree with what you said entirely. I'm happy to find so many people including men who are not ashamed to be dancing. I went to a Pow-wow to help out at a nearby Native American museum last Sunday. One of the staff there impressed everyone by getting connected to his roots, one of the tribal members lent him traditional leggings and a ribbon shirt and a loin cloth and headdress and he joined in the dancing. Everyone was talking about it and not one laugh...we all felt happy for him. He found his tribe. At the end of the powwow there is a closing song - no dancing. This is so that the beat can synchronize everyone there forever. I have a tribe in Quebec, whenever I need a quiet place I can 'travel' to our fire ring and get in the place between the fire and where the chief sits, in my mind. There I can see the faces of people in my tribe, whether they have passed or not. It is a connection that lasts forever. My older son shares the same place with me. Once he wrote a poem, it had nothing to do with this place in the words, but I told him, I know that place, it is there (naming place). He said that this was true. He won an award for the poem, not for the words, but because the words helped people to travel to this place and gave them the feeling that we have when we are there (literally or in our hearts). 

This is why music and dance and storytelling are so important to our culture. If we do not start sharing these things soon, listening and synchronizing ourselves, we will quickly become extinct. I would say that electronic communication are a factor in the demise but if you look at how there are many discussions started on these forums about music, dance, film, literature, effects of nature on our perspective, this is not so. It is the listening and the communication that count. Electronic media that are only consumed are to blame, when they don't result in communication. Or media that are only created for profit, not for message. Look at a movie like "Up". It carries a messaage about communication and community. As compared to some of the trash that is only about making a profit and cross-marketing and licensing. Of course it was shown in 3D and that got people to go to the movie. Nothing wrong with that! 

Ballroom dancing especially as seen on TV (I don't watch that too often but have sometimes watched those shows) gets people interested in dance. What happens when they get to the studio is different. That's why even though I've never done Zumba, I think it's a good thing. Even if people have to PRETEND to be exercising and building their muscles up in order to dance, they are still going to dance. Now if only Zumba can be made popular for men. Maybe that's what's behind those lu lu shorts, it's the women finding a sneaky way to get men to come dance. 

Anyway, I'm lucky I went to dance school. I felt like going and so I went. It was definitely the right thing to do. When you are dancing, you are dancing, you aren't doing anything else. And then when you're living, you are still dancing, no matter what.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Riverside MFT said:


> In looking at the cultures you described (South America, Spain, Italy, Greece), and then looking at the U.S. and many Western European I noticed a couple of differences. American men are driven now by success. We try hard to bring in as much income as we possibly can. The drive to become a business man, doctor, or lawyer is stronger today than it has ever been. Dance was also a part of our American Heritage before this drive for money and power. Folk dancing and square dancing were very much a part of the history of the early western United States. Waltz, fox trots, and other ballroom dances were things that many Americans knew before the drive for success became our only drive in life.
> 
> This is all sad, because I think men are becoming more passionate now about money and success than they are with the women they love.


You bring up an excellent point. It seems like there is a coorelation between the countries that value money/career most vs. the countries that value life/happiness most but not all times.
Sweden for example is rated quite high in happiness and certainly money isn't the most important but you would be hard pressed to find any Swedish male dance. Ever.
So could it have more to do with Anglo-Saxon repression and that we focused our attentions to tangible things rather than "pleasure" if you will? :scratchhead:


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> You bring up an excellent point. It seems like there is a coorelation between the countries that value money/career most vs. the countries that value life/happiness most but not all times.
> Sweden for example is rated quite high in happiness and certainly money isn't the most important but you would be hard pressed to find any Swedish male dance. Ever.
> So could it have more to do with Anglo-Saxon repression and that we focused our attentions to tangible things rather than "pleasure" if you will? :scratchhead:


Among my grandmother's people, there is a traditional stomp dance led by the cheiftan. I could particpate outside the formal gatherings, but am mixed blood and couldn't participate formally. Say what you will about spirit and rhythm, I think I discovered its true origin when I stepped on a baby rattle snake while trimming my lawn.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Halien said:


> Among my grandmother's people, there is a traditional stomp dance led by the cheiftan. I could particpate outside the formal gatherings, but am mixed blood and couldn't participate formally. Say what you will about spirit and rhythm, I think I discovered its true origin when I stepped on a baby rattle snake while trimming my lawn.


OMG!

:rofl:


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

The snake dance.
Sounds like the candy dance, only a bit different. LOL


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

The Swedes and Finns stopped dancing because it identified too closely with the Russians. Whereas to my knowledge the Russians never stopped dancing and sing as well, all while drunk and brutally infectious. If you add an accordian and some war songs, you're in for trouble, but of course the fun kind.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> The snake dance.
> Sounds like the candy dance, only a bit different. LOL


And yet last night the samba teacher kept telling the woman to move her hips "like a snake". Never knew the same could be acheived by mowing the lawn during a precarious time of year.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

Real men don't dance. Unless drunk and under 22.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

I'm American but I've lived in Germany four years. Seems to me there is a huge difference. Germans are far more group-social than I was accustomed to. I never attended any formal dances or dancing instruction in the States but I got invited to perhaps a dozen dances a year in Germany. Ballroom dancing was an expected skill because I was expected to dance with every lady there. I got tired of looking stupid, so I took classes.
I think the bottom line is that America is where misfits from the polite parts of Europe went. Part of the attraction for immigrating to America was to spread out and own land. Those who remained behind preferred living in closer quarters with firmly established social rules. Americans don't like rules and they resist or question authority. If I go to 20 German weddings, they will all follow a pretty specific protocols (including dancing). Americans might get married at a Waffle House or the bottom of the sea. Ballroom dancing is a tradition in Europe but not so much in America. I don't think it's a matter of not appearing "manly", it's just not a formal tradition in the American culture. Indeed, most of what we'd consider "traditions" involve only our families.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

It is widely known in my heritage that premarital sex and any form of sexual perversion is shunned, for it frequently leads to dancing.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

unbelievable said:


> I'm American but I've lived in Germany four years. Seems to me there is a huge difference. Germans are far more group-social than I was accustomed to. I never attended any formal dances or dancing instruction in the States but I got invited to perhaps a dozen dances a year in Germany. Ballroom dancing was an expected skill because I was expected to dance with every lady there. I got tired of looking stupid, so I took classes.
> I think the bottom line is that America is where misfits from the polite parts of Europe went. Part of the attraction for immigrating to America was to spread out and own land. Those who remained behind preferred living in closer quarters with firmly established social rules. Americans don't like rules and they resist or question authority. If I go to 20 German weddings, they will all follow a pretty specific protocols (including dancing). Americans might get married at a Waffle House or the bottom of the sea. Ballroom dancing is a tradition in Europe but not so much in America. I don't think it's a matter of not appearing "manly", it's just not a formal tradition in the American culture. Indeed, most of what we'd consider "traditions" involve only our families.


We all came here from someplace else. Wouldn't it be natural to bring the dance culture from our respective home countries with us and embrace that? The only cultures I see in this country that really do that are Greeks, Mexicans and Cubans and not just for weddings. Saturdays or just to go to a club and let loose. Very male centric cultures who have no issue with expression. There might be something to this. I really don't know.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

I was sort of kidding. But, the formalization of dancing in other cultures would really be a good way of breaking the ice so to speak for young people. I look at our culture now and wonder sometimes.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Maybe it was Vietnam that ended the dancing.
Emasculation of a generation of men.
That and the exploitation and/or tinkering of nature, and humans (synthetic hormones, synthetic drugs, artificial this and that...the switch to electronic music...)

It seems to me people were dancing in a formalized cultural sense right up til about the end of the 60's, even through the World Wars and the Great Depression. Then it stopped.

Something happened and there has been a shift or it is the beginning of a turning of the tides. People are starting to dance again. It's about as easy to explain as the swallows of Capistrano and Goya.


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## changedone (Jul 12, 2011)

Dancing is my anti-drug , I love to dance and when me and my wife hit the dance I love the stares we receive from the both the younger generation and our own. the compliments we receive are invigorating my wife sometimes get a lil upset of the attention received from the women but I dance because it soothes me.. once a woman actually said to me."you dance as if you are Gay and to be politically correct Gay is happy and free .. that same woman also mention that I danced like I worked well in the bed that woman became my wife .. go figure ..


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

John Wayne Dancing, enough said! 

Real men dance, I think men who refuse to dance are afraid of women in some way!


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## Whip Morgan (May 26, 2011)

Alright ladies, how do you feel when you see a guy dancing, having fun, but he looks like an idiot? A bad dancer, not Elaine-bad, but nothing pretty. Do you find yourselves laughing at him all night?


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> Okay, so bear with me here. Last night I couldn't sleep so I stayed up watching a show on the Travel Channel called "Dance the World". It was a fascinating journey about a classically trained dancer who is travelling the world to explore various cultures and the dances that encompass it. Last night, she was in Brazil learning the Samba. The dance school where she was training was equally mixed with both men and women. It seemed everywhere she went, men loved to dance. It was a part of their blood and just as natural as breathing.
> This got me thinking about other cultures and how men dancing is considered dominate. The inability to dance in many countries is considered weak. Greece, Spain, Italy, Russia, nearly all of Latin America, the Middle East and Africa. These are cultures dominated by men and the men there dance freely and are seen as strong men for doing so.
> In the case of last nights episode, the teacher of the Samba school was a thin, small man who wasn't good looking. The women however, thought he was a God and the men wanted to be him. He commanded respect by dancing.
> So my question is, why is dancing in the U.S. or say England/Canada considered to be unmanly/un dominate or worse, gay? It really got me thinking and I do not understand this.
> Curious about the thoughts of men here on this. :scratchhead:


I dont see anything unmanly about dancing, or more speciffically, being a great dancer... Unless it requires lots of make-up, feathers and a flamboyant personality... but I digress.

I think manliness is fairly synonymous with confidence, so if you can scrub the toilet confidently, you can do it manly. I know I do:smthumbup:

But on a serious note I wish I could dance. Even just how the kiddies do it in the club. I dont mean grinding on everything that doesnt have a penis, but to be able to enjoy myself on the dancefloor with my wife would be great, and I know she would love it too.... If only I could dance.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

calif_hope said:


> Real men dance, I think men who refuse to dance are afraid of women in some way!


yep its true, I am scared sh!tless of women (the ones I'm attracted to anyhow) and I've also always refused to dance (though even alone when there isn't even anyone around).

yes I know very beta behavior, I should be more confident yadda yadda. If only you could quantum leap into my head and see what I go through trying to muster up that courage. It's not even the kind of fear that you can simply face, like overcoming your fear of heights by standing on a cliff - to face the fear of dancing you have to physically do something, which uses muscles that have never been used and coordination skills that have never been developed.

Tonight I had the chance to take a swing dance lesson in the park, but I refused because I knew I wasn't mentally prepared, plus it west coast style and I can only count up to 4 in even numbers. If I had just jumped in I know with a high amount of certainty I would have had an emotional breakdown in the middle of it, damaging my rep and appearing as a total freak. I'd like to learn but it seriously is not fun at all and I'm not ready to deal with that level of humiliation.

So please don't judge us that sit on the side watching the dancers have fun, and when we say no repeatedly (like more than 3 or 4 times) we mean it.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

Lon said:


> yep its true, I am scared sh!tless of women (the ones I'm attracted to anyhow) and I've also always refused to dance (though even alone when there isn't even anyone around).
> 
> yes I know very beta behavior, I should be more confident yadda yadda. If only you could quantum leap into my head and see what I go through trying to muster up that courage. It's not even the kind of fear that you can simply face, like overcoming your fear of heights by standing on a cliff - to face the fear of dancing you have to physically do something, which uses muscles that have never been used and coordination skills that have never been developed.
> 
> ...


Lon,
I would never judge someone who doesn't dance because they feel nervous/afraid, ever. I was referring more to those who dismiss it as a feminine thing to do. 
Hey, you can have moves without dancing. You said it yourself.....the bedroom. Dancing usually leads to that anyways so if you skip that part and go for the gutso, nothing lost whatsoever.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

Lon....

West Coast Swing.....I have been dancing for years and I wouldn't attempt it.

You know Lon what you need to do is explore a bit, check your local club life on the internet....most clubs now days have speciality nights...check them out, listen to the music. I gurantee you will find a style of music which has a beat that you can handle. 

In Latin dance I often suggest to my timid brothers that they start with the buchatta or cumbia styles.....slower music, easier moves, and steps and the ladies dress as sexy as they do for Salsa. I know Canada has a major Latin dance movement. 

If Latin dance doesn't suit you, go to a legimate dance school ask them to help you find the style that is suited to you. 

Take the plunge, the water is fine! Kinda of hot actually!


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Lon, West Coast Swing is definitely a dancing man's dance. It is his chance to show off for the woman. If you sense this right away then you have a good intuitive feel for dancing. 

I agree with calif_hope you should try something different. Have you ever heard about contra dancing? With this style of dancing you will not have to stay with one partner for very long and the women don't dress so distractingly and it generally doesn't lead to sex, just the need to wash your hands because you've literally touched everyone in the room.

The caller will call out the moves and it has a flow. It is an easy way to get started dancing. You might also enjoy line dancing as the music tends to be more varied than contra dancing.

As a precursor to getting used to the center of your body and extensions from it in the way of intention, you might try some basic yoga. Core strength and balance help a lot in dancing. 

Also, to be able to not think about the stuff that bothers you when dancing, you need to think about it even more. Once you have got that thought, pin it down and then you can let it go. You'll see that it's just a thought.

Remember even though someone said that all dancing leads to sex, it doesn't mean that it leads to sex with the person you're dancing with!!!!!!!! Sometimes, a dance is just a dance. It's an expression of emotion, but in the general, communal sense. Accepting your partner's emotions while dancing and giving them a place to be expressed becomes a giving act in a safe encounter.

Other times, it's an expression of what is going on outside of the dance. In which case you're going to connect a little bit more and give a little bit more and accept a little bit more. But it is tempered because of the structure of dance. Then the fun is trying to figure out if your partner is doing the same or just being accepting of your needs and a good/polite dancer in doing so. 

A man's role in dance is usually not pursuit but to enjoy making the woman look and feel good. West Coast Swing as it was explained to me is an opportunity for a man to show off a bit. I listen up if a man tells me it's not his favorite dance and he prefers the Rumba. If a good dancer makes leg contact it's deliberate. I can see how this would be scary for a man. Because a woman could refuse it in a dance by adjusting her embrace, and the man has to keep leading until the music stops, even after being rejected. 


Don't be put off by watching other people dance. That is their dance and different relationships use different embraces and body distance even for the Latin dances that appear sexual. You can do a Latin dance with appropriate body space. Then it is general communal expression of sexual energy. Adjust the space and you get something else altogether. 

The most important thing to me that I have learned in dance is that in order to effectively and clearly reject advances, you absolutely have to firmly connect with the person you're rejecting. While you're giving the person the dance that you promised when you accepted the dance. I would rather dance with someone who is learning, in the corner of the dance floor, who is respectful, than a fully competent dancer who is going to take advantage of my inexperience on the dance floor to make advances that I have no capability of rejecting. It's like being molested in public, without being able to do anything about it. So connection...if you don't have it you can't get your partner where you would rather have him be. 

A competent dancer is also going to realize that when dancing with someone inexperienced, if they do give leg contact in a dance or some other intimate gesture and it's accepted, that it may be due to inexperience and naive, and not a sincere acceptance.

This is why I would suggest contra dancing to get used to touching (or waltz, even) or line dancing to get used to body movement and music and having your feet under you.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

calif_hope said:


> John Wayne Dancing, enough said!
> 
> Real men dance, I think men who refuse to dance are afraid of women in some way!


I don't think it's a fear of women, nor do I think it is a fear of looking like a sissy. For me, it was outside of my comfort zone. It was more a fear of looking foolish attempting to do something I'd never tried before. How do you "lead" while dancing ballroom when you don't know anything about it. Especially when my wife had some experience with it and was much more of a natural at it. I think the whole "it's too feminine" argument is a facade. I think it's more of a fear of stepping outside our comfort zone and looking awkward in front of women that we fear. Especially when we know the women are looking at "that guy" out there that really knows what he is doing and comparing us to him. Kind of a "Dance Envy".


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Definitely to lead you have to know what you are doing. Lessons are necessary, either formal or informal. I think even people whose main goal is to dance with their spouse, should do them the courtesty/favor of dancing with other partners so that they can be a better leader (or partner).

After a while a woman can learn to lead, if she has been paying attention in lessons and knows what the man is supposed to be doing. It's just a higher level of understanding...of course when you are dancing with a guy, you have to turn that off and follow again. 

There is nothing wrong with not wanting to do something you don't know how to do. Take, for instance driving or scuba diving or rock climbing or flying an airplane or downhill skiing/snowboarding.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the awesome advice HNU and Calif.

Overcoming this block is definitely something I need to understand better. I'm trying to understand if it is generally being out of my comfort zone that is so hard or if its just because I really dislike dance. I am able to push myself out of my CZ mush more effectively in many other areas, so if I dislike it so much, how come? Either I just am not wired to or else its something I've learned to not like.

And its hard to find help figuring this out because those who want me to try dancing are all so hardcore about it that they push too hard. So I will look into your suggestions of finding my style, be it contra or line dance, or something even more rudimentary. I do have a lot of rythm that I'd love to express, maybe I'll just go out and buy a drum set instead


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> I don't think it's a fear of women, nor do I think it is a fear of looking like a sissy. For me, it was outside of my comfort zone. It was more a fear of looking foolish attempting to do something I'd never tried before. How do you "lead" while dancing ballroom when you don't know anything about it. Especially when my wife had some experience with it and was much more of a natural at it. I think the whole "it's too feminine" argument is a facade. I think it's more of a fear of stepping outside our comfort zone and looking awkward in front of women that we fear. Especially when we know the women are looking at "that guy" out there that really knows what he is doing and comparing us to him. Kind of a "Dance Envy".


I wonder if it just comes more natural for many women. My wife took to it much more easily than me. Seriously, she was getting pretty frustrated with me. I was just too focused on the formula: step, step, slide... If she added some sort of twirl, it messed with the formula: Step, Step, slide, ouch!! (she slaps me on the arm when she gets frustrated).

This fear of looking awkward is probably the biggest reason that men avoid it, along with the argument that 'nobody does it.' At the end ofthe day, I'm inspired to keep doing it for the obvious reason: I look pretty good in a tux! (Just kiddin!!)


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Therealbrighteyes said:


> We all came here from someplace else. Wouldn't it be natural to bring the dance culture from our respective home countries with us and embrace that? The only cultures I see in this country that really do that are Greeks, Mexicans and Cubans and not just for weddings. Saturdays or just to go to a club and let loose. Very male centric cultures who have no issue with expression. There might be something to this. I really don't know.


There you go. Germany is inhabited by Germans. Holland is inhabited by Dutch. Japan is inhabited by Japanese. Mexico, Mexicans. Cuba, Cubans. America is home to everyone, so what constitutes a traditional American dance or custom? 
Remember also, that our earliest settlers were mostly very religious and/or very poor. They made mate selections based on whoever happened to be available, mostly for the sake of survival. Formal social gatherings were typically church functions. 
Formal dancing was mostly a dating ritual in Europe, associated with the wealthy. Our military academies taught dance to officers but such instruction was never given to enlisted soldiers. In America, it's still considered an activity of the wealthy. Americans traditionally avoid appearing obviously wealthy. Our politicians try to play down their wealth and play up their humble origins. 
Our ancestors engaged in folk dancing, heavily improvisational, but you're not going to see a drunken jig on Dancing with the Stars.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

My mother was a professional dancer. Oddly she never suggested either of her children ever learn.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Halien said:


> If she added some sort of twirl, it messed with the formula: Step, Step, slide, ouch!! (she slaps me on the arm when she gets frustrated).


There is your problem. Your female partner does not just add a twirl. You lead her to do a twirl or turn. There is a distinct signal that tells the female partner when to turn. At least this is the case in ballroom. I guess in salsa she could do it and it wouldn't matter if you do or not. I don't do anything unless I get a clear lead. If I don't get a lead or I get a lead that's going to put me way off balance, I stop. I don't compensate and make a guy look good. This quickly weeds out bad leads...they seek out women who will put up with that cr*p. Just like in any other relationship.


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## calif_hope (Feb 25, 2011)

*Unbelievable - Unbelievable*

Unbelievalbe

"America is home to everyone, so what constitutes a traditional American dance or custom?" 

*Lindy, Swing, West Coast Swing, HipHop I can go on*


Remember also, that our earliest settlers were mostly very religious and/or very poor. They made mate selections based on whoever happened to be available, mostly for the sake of survival. Formal social gatherings were typically church functions. 

*No no no! Not every settlement had a church - in the early US, 16th - 19th century in rural and in some urban communities, it was proximity not survival that influenced mate selection. Often the meetings were in "dance" socials, i.e. barn dances....only a very small number of denominations were anti-dance during this time. * 

"Formal dancing was mostly a dating ritual in Europe, associated with the wealthy. Our military academies taught dance to officers but such instruction was never given to enlisted soldiers."

*Wrong again.....formal dancing as you put it i.e. Waltz, was limited to the upper crust of Eurpope. Since almost most marriages in Europe's "upper crust" were arrange for political or for strategic and or business allinces - NO DATING WAS INVOVLED. 

And, no the US has never had dancing as part of the training program for enlisted men.....but when ever the Army had fixed establishements even in the 19th Century calvary forts in the west - if they had the materials they did build dance halls but the always arranged dances, catilians and the like.* 

In America, it's still considered an activity of the wealthy. Americans traditionally avoid appearing obviously wealthy. Our politicians try to play down their wealth and play up their humble origins. 

*OMG!!!!!......a study by the National Council on the Arts showed that "dancing" for entertainment, self expression, exercise......has a greater percentage of invovlement in the mid-to lower middle class and even those in poverty than your so called "wealthy" americans........ * 

Our ancestors engaged in folk dancing, heavily improvisational, but you're not going to see a drunken jig on Dancing with the Stars.

*I was offended by this remark, highly predicious.....folk dancing is anything but improvisational.....its the ritual embeded in folk dance that provides its relevence. It is the continuity of the expressions that link those who currently embrace folk dance to their/our anchestors. 

And sir, you do see traditional folk dancing elements in dancing with the stars......this season I was pleased see square dancing, clogging, balet folklorico, and other folk dancing movements and steps utlized by the contestants. *


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## AbsolutelyFree (Jan 28, 2011)

In my life of 26 years, I can only remember dancing three times.

The first was when I was 4 or 5 years old, when my dad and my uncle were playing guitars together. 

The second was at my uncle's wedding, when I was maybe 9 or 10.

Then, about three years ago, I was in some club and a beautiful woman approached me and asked me to dance with her. Though normally I would decline the invitation, I decided to go out on a limb and try it. 

After a minute or two, all of this girl's friends were laughing at me. Worse, they were so loud that it got many other people's attention who began staring and laughing at me as well. Then the girl said I must be gay and went back to sit with her friends.


Still, I recognize that dancing is one of those things, like tattoos and motorcycles, which attracts women like flies to light. For that reason, I have contemplated taking dancing lessons. But it might be a waste of time at this point -- Having truly no experience or idea what to do at all, I'm not sure that I could ever be any good at it by taking only a half or or hour long lesson once per week.


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## Therealbrighteyes (Feb 11, 2010)

AbsolutelyFree said:


> In my life of 26 years, I can only remember dancing three times.
> 
> The first was when I was 4 or 5 years old, when my dad and my uncle were playing guitars together.
> 
> ...


 What a bunch of b!tches! Lordy, I am so sorry.
Take your classes. You would be surprised what you could learn in an hour per week. Us ladies (real ladies) appreciate and adore men who can dance.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

AbsolutelyFree, you should absolutely take the dance classes.
Those ladies (using the term generously) would be no friends of mine. I am sorry that happened to you. Everyone can dance. They were wrong to imply otherwise.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Well, after thinking about this thread and my dance class mate from h*ll, I think the next time he starts misbehaving I am going to face it head on and tell him what's what verbally.

I noticed my knee hurt at a play I went to Tuesday evening and it was probably because of the 10 minutes of repeated ochos with pulling up on my shoulders he had me do. The guy is just getting creepy and I think he missed a class the week before because he felt rejected or something I said probably about me being married which is a copout because I'm married but definitely separated (getting a restraining order counts for that I would imagine). 

I think I've been way too polite. Plus the guy wears a wedding ring, I don't think he's married. Probably does it to be approachable. 

I kept smelling something in my kitchen. I changed out the trash, the compost bin is all fresh stuff. I mean, it was fetid. Sure enough, under the sink where I followed my nose, my pasta pot I'd stored there was brimming full with fetid gross brown-molded water. Last summer I smelled a rotting mouse under our deck. Point being, if I smell a rat, it's a rat. This guy is probably not clueless about taking advantage of the situation of me having to be polite in class. He's had his last 'tango' with me. I will make sure that the instructor is aware of the issue, nonverbally and if that doesn't carry through, verbally. The problem classmate is in two of my classes, the tango class is small, the other class is larger and the guy still tries to partner up with me. Last week I got stuck with him the entire time except for when the instructor rescued me for a bit. I don't mind the help at all.

Sorry for the hijack...if it is a hijack.

OK guys, in that respect, have you ever used dancing as a way to be physically close to a woman in an environment where she cannot politely get away...and what do you think about when you are doing this? What kind of signals or clues would put a stop to that thinking most effectively? 

No judgement from me by being honest.
I'm looking for helpful insight.


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> OK guys, in that respect, have you ever used dancing as a way to be physically close to a woman in an environment where she cannot politely get away...and what do you think about when you are doing this? What kind of signals or clues would put a stop to that thinking most effectively?


Had one of those in one of our classes. DW made sure he was aware her husband was in the class too as did I. (In a non-verbal, but very effective manner)  He moved on to another mark. Yes there are the creeps you join the classes stag just go get physically close to a woman but there are the others who really want to learn, or to surprise their wife or GF too.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

Amplexor said:


> Had one of those in one of our classes. DW made sure he was aware her husband was in the class too as did I. (In a non-verbal, but very effective manner)  He moved on to another mark. Yes there are the creeps you join the classes stag just go get physically close to a woman but there are the others who really want to learn, or to surprise their wife or GF too.


Well, I have been going to the class just to learn to dance, by myself. So I get it that I will be partnered with someone for practice during instruction. I've made it clear to this guy that I was not okay being partnered with him the entire class. Still it seems that he considers me his primary partner. Sometimes the instructor does encourage the people who came together as a couple to split up for practice with others, but not always. I think if I insist on having a swap-up it will happen more often. 

I'm assuming your DW signalled by making a non-verbal gesture towards you or with you, rather than a negative signal towards the creepy guy. I'm looking for some way to signal to this guy that I am not with him and don't intend to be his steady partner. He seems to think I WANT him but don't want it to show or something, in his mind I think he is colluding with me to make a show of swapping off now and then when I get around to him again it is ohhhhhh, now is my chance. If anything it's made it worse stating that we should not partner up the entire class. Gahhhhhhhhhhgh.

My favorite instructor has talked a lot about misapplied arm movements and gestures and some decent heel grinding. I think I will ask him for advice if I feel cornered again tonight. I hope it's not a case of asking the lion to help fend off the rhino.  The guy seems decent but you just never know. I mean, he's a dance instructor. :rofl:


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## Amplexor (Feb 13, 2008)

Homemaker_Numero_Uno said:


> I'm assuming your DW signalled by making a non-verbal gesture towards you or with you, rather than a negative signal towards the creepy guy.


She told me about it after the first class however my spidey senses were already going off. We had no problems after the beginning of the second class. The non verbal from me was pretty clear and direct. Our instructor preferred swap off classes. I danced with my wife just about as much as I did with each of the other ladies in class.


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I can only hope that my tango instructor gave him more than a tango lesson in the advanced class I declined to stay for, I had a ready excuse in that my sitter was expecting me home.  I did stay a bit to talk to the receptionist (this just happened, wasn't planned) and then made the most of that opportunity to walk past the door to the instruction room in full view 1/2 hour later to get my ice water (also honestly forgotten...by why pass up an opportunity to signal). Still, who knows what guys talk about after the woman has left the room, especially an instructor and a student. I hope that the instructor was tactful, but this might be a guy who has his head so far up his butt that tact isn't going to even make a dent.

I'm going to class tonight so will report back tomorrow...


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I find dancing to be no more feminine than Basket Ball. I feel silly doing either activity. I do enjoy dancing more. I dance with my wife every year. Truthfully i think she feels sillier than I do.

M N


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## Homemaker_Numero_Uno (Jan 18, 2011)

I solved my issues this evening by mostly dancing with other women, we take turns with the lead. Which leads back to the topic of the OP. Where are all the men, not on the dance floor. But really, who cares, dancing is dancing.


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## Pit-of-my-stomach (Nov 2, 2010)

Locard said:


> Real men don't dance. Unless drunk and under 22.


lol. thats funny. I dance, very well. The measure of my manliness has never been in question. 

Funny how thousands of women and men have seen me dance for countless hours and my "manhood" has very been in question once... 

but it took you about 10 seconds to type that and leave very little doubt the measure of man you are.

lol.


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## RandomDude (Dec 18, 2010)

?! Men are unmanly for dancing in the West? 
Since when? It's kinda a 'must' to know how to dance, club freestyling at the very least. But even that is meh, for when a woman wants to dance with you with the music pumpin, and you have no idea how to -> then LOL! But I guess this is coming in with the newer generations. Some moves can be considered gay however, you can kinda tell. Been dancing (mostly while drunk) since I was young


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