# I am worried my wife doesn’t want to make an effort



## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Hey folks,

I wondered if anyone else had a similar experience to what I have, or whether I have just convinced myself this is something when it’s not (defo a possibility).

My wife and I have been together for a decade and have a four year old child.

I’ve always been into making grand romantic gestures (romantic meals, mini breaks, date nights, etc). My wife has always said she isn’t very romantic and I accept that - it’s nice to be considered the romantic one. 

What I have started to notice though is that effort when it comes to romance and intimacy is in relatively short supply. I totally appreciate that between being a mum and having a part time job, energy levels can be low sometimes and what is required at times is just to mooch on the couch. However, this seems to be the status quo.

I’m committed to being as helpful and hands on a husband and father as I can be so I ensure parenting responsibilities are split 50/50 and I do as much as I can around the house because, well, we don’t live in the 1950s - we’re a team. 

None of this seems to assist in providing any additional energy for time together and if I suggest making time, there’s always something more pressing that needs done. If we go on holiday or a romantic break together then things improve, but when we’re back home, its business as usual.

Just wondering if any other husbands/partners had experienced similar and if there’s anything you’ve done to improve things?

I’m in this for life so want to make sure we face this together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

Sometimes when one's spouse is always accommodating, they can get taken for granted, they can start to get thought of as a piece of furniture or a Parent or something. You don't want your spouse to think of you like that. Which is why it's not always a great idea to be the white knight. Remember the white knight has to go out and fight the dragon, the princess ends up with the prince. 

You need to read up about women's sexual nature. Here is an hint women are not turned on by you doing the dishes. The point of doing the dishes is so she is not busy doing the dishes and you can have time for others stuff, not to get her hot and bothered. Besides that us guys say 50-50 and teammates like that makes us some great prize, but really that is only because the bar is so low. That is what your supposed to do, why should you get a reward for it, she is doing 50-50 too she isn't asking for a reward.

Again you should read up about it but some keys are, get in shape, life weights, dress good, flirt with your wife, be assertive. Let her know how attracted you are to her, make her feel attractive, but don't immediately expect results. Ask for what you want, in a fun playful way. Never sulk or whine. 

Finally don't be so quick to do everything she wants, make her work for it a little, 50/50 is expected but don't always treat her like a princess if she doesn't deserve it. If you are feeling distant from her because you are not intimate sexually it's OK to act a little distant, then if she asks and you better hope she cares enough to ask, tell her that is why. Don't be like, - "you don't have sex with me!, wahh!" Nope, unemotionally say something like this - "I am really not feeling as close to you right now because I feel like we are no longer connecting physically". The point is to give her something to think about, you shouldn't just be her dishwasher. 

The most important thing in all this is to be authentic, not mean just authentic. Nice guys seem to be afraid to say to their wives, this isn't cutting it. It's why they are nice guys. That is not good. It's OK for effort to be one of your requirements in the marriage. Most people want spouses who hold them to a standard, it's just more honest and feels more real and intense.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

You’re 100% right re the household chores. I don’t do it for any plaudits, but rather because it’s my job as part of this team to do it. I suppose my concern is that, despite us splitting this stuff, her energy levels are always low, or she finds something else to prioritise when we have alone time.

It’s not so much that I’m trying to be her White Knight, but rather that I take my responsibilities to equal work in the household seriously and want to ensure she’s not overburdened.

I have previously had discussions with her about the need to bring more effort to our romantic life and things can kinda improve for a short time, before normal service resumes.

I guess it’s just one of those things where I need to keep reinforcing that we are still two people in a romantic relationship and not just parents, or grownups with household chores to do...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

You might want to consider marriage counseling before things spiral out of control. You don't have to be on the verge of divorce to seek help. If you find the right counselor, you might have a breakthrough in relatively short ord. If she refuses, you may have it even quicker. You say you're in it for life. You need to find out if she is, as well.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Ok, we know you are an exemplary husband, but we miss some info... what's the sex frequency? Involved during sex or starfish impression? Has she put weight on? Have you put weight on? Is the child an easy child? That would be good to know, just to get an idea of the other parameters in your relationship...


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Turn down the temperature...

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

For the record, I in no way think I am any sort of exemplary husband and don’t think for one second that any of my efforts merit the proverbial pat on the back.

Sex is about twice a week and it’s more like the starfish thing. She has put on some weight in the decade we’ve been together - I think she was a size 8 when we met and is a size 14 now. However, I love her shape. I haven’t put on much weight since we met (maybe 1/2 stone but that fluctuates). I do know that her size and lack of fitness bothers her and I try everything to both make her feel sexy and loved, while also encouraging her to get fit (because it’s what she wants). She kinda pays lip service to the idea of fitness and coming to the gym with me - I’ve suggested it’s something we could do together because I’m always happy to get a little healthier, but she doesn’t have much follow through.

Our daughter is a total superstar. Sleeps 12 hours a night and is a very well behaved child. I also work from home so can help with the parenting stuff in between meetings and workload etc.

I get the sense that she has just become to comfy in our life and maybe takes for granted that we’re still a (relatively) young couple. When we started dating I was her first boyfriend for several years and the sex was great and frequen.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

anchorwatch said:


> Turn down the temperature...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk


In what way?


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> In what way?


Here... The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R

The pursuer-distancer pattern

Could this be you? No More Mr. Nice Guy


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

anchorwatch said:


> Here... The thermostat - the ultimate barometer of your R
> 
> The pursuer-distancer pattern
> 
> Could this be you? No More Mr. Nice Guy


Thank you for this and I can totally see why you’d think that, but no that’s not akin to our situation. My wife is very affectionate and we’re on par when it comes to being emotionally there for one another.

We are both more than happy to cuddle up, kiss, and generally do PDA. It’s more when it comes to romantic gestures and intimacy where the effort dips.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

Your starfish statement may have thrown us a bit off. 

You say 


PressOfficer87 said:


> My wife is very affectionate and we’re on par when it comes to being emotionally there for one another. We are both more than happy to cuddle up, kiss, and generally do PDA. It’s more when it comes to romantic gestures and intimacy where the effort dips.


 Is it her frequency of initiation and involvement in the acts of sex? 

Put us back on track


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

anchorwatch said:


> Your starfish statement may have thrown us a bit off.
> 
> You say
> 
> ...


Apologies, I may have misinterpreted what was being asked.

The effort put into sex is fairly minimal but similarly, the effort put into actually initiating sex or finding time for it is pretty poor.

I think she likes regimented alone time in the evening at bed time and is not very keen on spontaneous love making when we have free time to ourselves during the day (often saying something else needs done).

The problem with night time is that’s when she’s really tired and so either wants a quickie, doesn’t want much effort, or doesn’t want to do it at all.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

PressOfficer87 said:


> You’re 100% right re the household chores. I don’t do it for any plaudits, but rather because it’s my job as part of this team to do it. I suppose my concern is that, despite us splitting this stuff, her energy levels are always low, or she finds something else to prioritise when we have alone time.
> 
> It’s not so much that I’m trying to be her White Knight, but rather that I take my responsibilities to equal work in the household seriously and want to ensure she’s not overburdened.
> 
> ...


So on this team thing, are the financial obligations also 50/50?

Remember the medium is the message. Even with you doing half the work around the house she finds something else to prioritize over you. The answer definitely is not for you to do more. Wouldn't you agree......... if that worked, you wouldn't be here?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> So on this team thing, are the financial obligations also 50/50?
> 
> Remember the medium is the message. Even with you doing half the work around the house she finds something else to prioritize over you. The answer definitely is not for you to do more. Wouldn't you agree......... if that worked, you wouldn't be here?


No, financial obligations aren’t 50/50. I work full time and am the main wage earner. I cover mortgage, utilities, groceries etc. My wife’s wage is to provide us with spending money for stuff like clothing, family gifts etc.

I 100% agree with the idea that it’s not for me to do more. I guess the picture I’m trying to paint is that I’m not just an under sexed husband complaining that his exhausted wife, who does all the housework and raises our child while I am away can’t find any energy to make an effort with our romantic life.


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## Al_Bundy (Mar 14, 2021)

I think @sokillme has given the best advice so far. I know it might sound harsh or go against everything you've heard of. But more talking isn't the answer.

The reason talking to her doesn't work is because you can't negotiate genuine desire.

Best of luck. Let us know how it turns out.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Al_Bundy said:


> I think @sokillme has given the best advice so far. I know it might sound harsh or go against everything you've heard of. But more talking isn't the answer.
> 
> The reason talking to her doesn't work is because you can't negotiate genuine desire.
> 
> Best of luck. Let us know how it turns out.


Many thanks to everyone who has contributed here. Very grateful for everyone taking the time to help me talk this out.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

@*PressOfficer87 *

Mismatch libidos are a common complaint in relationships, from both men and women. You will find a multitude of threads here (look at the sex in marriage section) and elsewhere on the web from those trying to solve this problem in their relationships. There's a whole industry out there servicing those looking for an answer to this dilemma.

It can be caused by a multitude of reasons during the natural flow of a relationship and life. Some natural and not a threat to the marriage and some hurtful.

From this little bit of information, you seem to have a good marriage overall, with two people invested. Right now her libido is at a lower stage than yours. Research that dynamic, understand it, work at it, but don't let it turn what you already have.

Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love and Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships


Best


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

anchorwatch said:


> @*PressOfficer87 *
> 
> Mismatch libidos are a common complaint in relationships, from both men and women. You will find a multitude of threads here and elsewhere on the web from those trying to solve this problem in their relationships. There's a whole industry out there servicing those looking for an answer to this dilemma.
> 
> ...


I really appreciate this, man thank you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Have you asked her outright about it? Expressed your needs?


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

That Passionate Marriage book is borderline unreadable it’s so verbose.

Get “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by @dadstartingover it’s the Cliff’s Notes version of what you need without all the case studies and terrible writing.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

I am no doctor but recognise the potential symptoms.

Does your wife have an under active thyroid or vitamin b12 deficiency?

I would ask her to get it checked if she hasn’t done so already.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Have you asked her outright about it? Expressed your needs?


I have asked before if there’s any reason she doesn’t match my effort or if there’s something I’m not doing that she wants to (or vice versa) but she’s really embarrassed when it comes to sex stuff, so doesn’t expand on any particular reasons. She always says she’ll try to make more of an effort but it doesn’t last.

I think everyone on here is right though. A frank discussion is required.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

How old are you two? How long have you been together? Twice a week is good if you have a toddler, but if it's "meh" sex then it is frustrating. Also, you work from home and your wife out of the home? Who looks after the toddler? After a few years of marriage and with a toddler, your wife is busy and sex is not at the top of her agenda. It happens. She probably won't take your "talk" very well.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

I’m 34 and my wife is 36. We’ve been together for nearly 10 years. Our daughter is 3 so is in nursery four days a week, meaning the daytime into early evening is not filled with as much parenting work as was previously required.

My wife works part time on weekends and on a Monday and I amended my working pattern to ensure I could take care of our daughter on these days. It means she’s always with a parent and saves us some money in terms of childcare.

Sex is often “meh” and it’s because of how non invested she seems to be in it. On the occasions where she is into it, it can be great, but that’s few and far between.

For the first couple of years after we had our daughter I let it all slide, because we were both exhausted and your priority is not so much being a couple, but rather being parents. However, I think we’ve reached a point where being tired because of the day to day parenting no longer flies.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I’m 34 and my wife is 36. We’ve been together for nearly 10 years. Our daughter is 3 so is in nursery four days a week, meaning the daytime into early evening is not filled with as much parenting work as was previously required.
> 
> My wife works part time on weekends and on a Monday and I amended my working pattern to ensure I could take care of our daughter on these days. It means she’s always with a parent and saves us some money in terms of childcare.
> 
> ...


Ok, that's useful... well, she shouldn't really be that tired. My guess is that maybe you two disconnected a bit during those 2 years and now she is finding difficult to reconnect at that level. How was sex during the first 2 years? Did it drop a lot? Stayed the same? Maybe she is still in mummy mode or she's lost her libido... she feels more like a mummy than a wife. Do you see any signs of depression?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Ok, that's useful... well, she shouldn't really be that tired. My guess is that maybe you two disconnected a bit during those 2 years and now she is finding difficult to reconnect at that level. How was sex during the first 2 years? Did it drop a lot? Stayed the same? Maybe she is still in mummy mode or she's lost her libido... she feels more like a mummy than a wife.


Thats exactly what I thought. Like, maybe she couldn’t get out of mummy mode and couldn’t appreciate that she’s a beautiful, sexy young woman still.

Sex before we had our daughter was a bit more frequent and was maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10. Now I’d say it’s a 4 or 5. 

It sounds awful but the quality of sex with my wife has never ranked in my top 5, but the sex wasn’t the linchpin of our relationship. She is the most loving, compassionate and amazing woman I’ve ever met. It’s just a real blow that an aspect of our life that was never “gold standard” has dropped further.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Thats exactly what I thought. Like, maybe she couldn’t get out of mummy mode and couldn’t appreciate that she’s a beautiful, sexy young woman still.
> 
> Sex before we had our daughter was a bit more frequent and was maybe a 6 or 7 out of 10. Now I’d say it’s a 4 or 5.
> 
> It sounds awful but the quality of sex with my wife has never ranked in my top 5, but the sex wasn’t the linchpin of our relationship. She is the most loving, compassionate and amazing woman I’ve ever met. It’s just a real blow that an aspect of our life that was never “gold standard” has dropped further.


I see... sounds to me like your wife was never into sex that much. A bit like mine. It took her ages to get out of mummy mode. I had to wait 3-4 months until we could have sex after every birth. She was a mummy, not a wife. She hated her body and she was breastfeeding. I had to be patient, but eventually, sex declined with each child. The only difference with your wife is that she was really into it when she got going...  Unfortunately, if I can be blunt, you married your wife _knowing_ that sex wasn't great. It was a trade-off. And unfortunately, sex tends to decline after children, although this is not always true. Not sure what you can do about it. Threatening divorce (but I know you won't do that) won't work. Putting even more pressure on her will ruin your relationship. Twice a week of mediocre sex is better than nothing, but you will be frustrated for the rest of your life. You can have a gentle talk to remind her that you would very much appreciate a bit more of enthusiasm in bed, but don't be too harsh. I don't have a solution, I'm afraid.

I'm sure others will be able to give you a different angle on this.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I see... sounds to me like your wife was never into sex that much. A bit like mine. It took her ages to get out of mummy mode. I had to wait 3-4 months until we could have sex after every birth. She was a mummy, not a wife. She hated her body and she was breastfeeding. I had to be patient, but eventually, sex declined with each child. The only difference with your wife is that she was really into it when she got going...  Unfortunately, if I can be blunt, you married your wife _knowing_ that sex wasn't great. It was a trade-off. And unfortunately, sex tends to decline after children, although this is not always true. Not sure what you can do about it. Threatening divorce (but I know you won't do that) won't work. Putting even more pressure on her will ruin your relationship. Twice a week of mediocre sex is better than nothing, but you will be frustrated for the rest of your life. You can have a gentle talk to reminder her that you would very much appreciate a bit more of enthusiasm in bed, but don't be too harsh. I don't have a solution, I'm afraid.
> 
> I'm sure others will be able to give you a different angle on this.


I appreciate your candidness though buddy, thank you.


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Honestly how about a hot night on the town where you both let your hair down? Have you got a group of friends you used to go out with?

We used to have a lot of fun before kids came, and our group did a lot of the births, 1st birthdays, christenings etc for years. And then we decided after about 6 years to every so often to hit the nightclubs all together. It was a bit lame and silly and we were the oldies in a sea of kids, but it was so great to see us all acting like lovebirds! I’m sure each couple went home and had some 10 out of 10.

Those early years are truly draining and very un-sexy. It’s sad when I look back at those pics and see that I was still attractive with small kids all over the place and remember how I felt like a total... mum.

On the bright side, your wife will be entering her peak years soon 😉


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Luckylucky said:


> Honestly how about a hot night on the town where you both let your hair down? Have you got a group of friends you used to go out with?
> 
> We used to have a lot of fun before kids came, and our group did a lot of the births, 1st birthdays, christenings etc for years. And then we decided after about 6 years to every so often to hit the nightclubs all together. It was a bit lame and silly and we were the oldies in a sea of kids, but it was so great to see us all acting like lovebirds! I’m sure each couple went home and had some 10 out of 10.
> 
> ...





Luckylucky said:


> Honestly how about a hot night on the town where you both let your hair down? Have you got a group of friends you used to go out with?
> 
> We used to have a lot of fun before kids came, and our group did a lot of the births, 1st birthdays, christenings etc for years. And then we decided after about 6 years to every so often to hit the nightclubs all together. It was a bit lame and silly and we were the oldies in a sea of kids, but it was so great to see us all acting like lovebirds! I’m sure each couple went home and had some 10 out of 10.
> 
> ...


I would honestly love to do something like that. The only downside is my wife’s working hours. because she works weekends it makes it difficult for big nights out, plus she’s a bit of a lightweight when it comes to booze 😂, but it’s a great idea.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

We are this two-legged, sometimes pissy, chemistry set.

Some of us are (more) cool to the touch, more cerebral.
Some have abandoned that innate monkey brain.

It is our hormones that make us sexual creatures.
Some have more, some have less, some are moan-less, dammit!


_King Brian-_


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Do you offer creative, new ideas, or are you waiting for her to come up with something new? Does she get off when you have sex?

You don't have to get her drunk, but some wine might help her relax enough to discuss sex. If she can _*have*_ sex with you, she should be able to talk about it as well.

Do you guys ever have fun outside the bedroom? She sounds burned out. Try having more fun overall. Being spontaneous might help as well. Put on her favorite love song and grab her hand. Pull her up from the couch and start dancing with her (don't ask, just gently grab her hand and go). Sing the song softly in her ear.

Turn off the TV. Play games or cards. Sing karaoke. Take turns planning date nights. Have a picnic in the living room. Go out for ice cream _*before*_ dinner. Ask her about her dreams. Plan a grand vacation together.

Does she know how beautiful and sexy you find her? Try telling her and showing her often, even when you're not trying to get busy. Also, make sure she knows that sex is an important part of feeling connected to her for you, not just a release.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

Still come back to the question of a potentially under active thyroid or pernicious anemia which seems to have been ignored.

I recognise a lot of the symptoms that my wife also displayed. After her thyroid problems were diagnosed, she was prescribed daily tablets which have been very effective and have no side effects. Her pernicious anemia are treated by a quarterly injection of B12 which is also very effective and has no side effects.

This may not be a problem with your wife but is worth getting checked. My wife became quite ill before she could be persuaded to go to the doctors.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> Still come back to the question of a potentially under active thyroid or pernicious anemia which seems to have been ignored.
> 
> I recognise a lot of the symptoms that my wife also displayed. After her thyroid problems were diagnosed, she was prescribed daily tablets which have been very effective and have no side effects. Her pernicious anemia are treated by a quarterly injection of B12 which is also very effective and has no side effects.
> 
> This may not be a problem with your wife but is worth getting checked. My wife became quite ill before she could be persuaded to go to the doctors.


Will definitely research this. Thank you.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

theloveofmylife said:


> Do you offer creative, new ideas, or are you waiting for her to come up with something new? Does she get off when you have sex?
> 
> You don't have to get her drunk, but some wine might help her relax enough to discuss sex. If she can _*have*_ sex with you, she should be able to talk about it as well.
> 
> ...


Everything you have suggested is stuff I’ve tried before and yeah she knows how beautiful I find her, because I tell her every day. She’s really embarrassed if I suggest stuff like dancing I’m the living room because she thinks somehow someone will make fun of her.

I think a lot of this stems from insecurities she has about what people think of her.


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## Harold Demure (Oct 21, 2020)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Everything you have suggested is stuff I’ve tried before and yeah she knows how beautiful I find her, because I tell her every day. She’s really embarrassed if I suggest stuff like dancing I’m the living room because she thinks somehow someone will make fun of her.
> 
> I think a lot of this stems from insecurities she has about what people think of her.


That’s nice, what you do.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Harold Demure said:


> That’s nice, what you do.


Shes the love of my life. I want to try and show her that every day.

I guess, even if she can’t or won’t make the effort, I always will.


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## TurnedTurtle (May 15, 2019)

In addition to the possible medical issues, consider that she might be suffering from depression and/or low self-esteem. For example, her weight gain might not be an issue for you, but it could be for her, and people sometimes fall into dark holes that can be very tough to climb out of.

You are definitely trying to be good to her and help her, but know that we can't change other people - people can only change themselves. Certainly one can try to provide guidance, offer incentives for change (or dis-incentives for not changing), etc... but it's still up to the person to change themselves. Often, though, in the context of a relationship, it is very difficult for one partner to be the guide for the other parnter's personal development -- an outside party (i.e. a therapist or counselor) is typically better positioned, better trained, and may be more effective at helping a depressed person see their way through to positive change.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

TurnedTurtle said:


> In addition to the possible medical issues, consider that she might be suffering from depression and/or low self-esteem. For example, her weight gain might not be an issue for you, but it could be for her, and people sometimes fall into dark holes that can be very tough to climb out of.
> 
> You are definitely trying to be good to her and help her, but know that we can't change other people - people can only change themselves. Certainly one can try to provide guidance, offer incentives for change (or dis-incentives for not changing), etc... but it's still up to the person to change themselves. Often, though, in the context of a relationship, it is very difficult for one partner to be the guide for the other parnter's personal development -- an outside party (i.e. a therapist or counselor) is typically better positioned, better trained, and may be more effective at helping a depressed person see their way through to positive change.


This is something I have long since thought. I do reckon she has some sort of issue regarding her mental health in terms of either body image or something deeper.

I reckon this all needs to be discussed with her...


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

So In your head your wife has just gotten comfortable in the marriage. To me it seems like she is happy… happy with her life, happy with her sex life. Women don’t have to do this full blown big performance during sex to like it. Many times we love sex and we can do it quietly without a lot of hog wash and still love it and be satisfied. I think a lot of men need this like… performance to make them feel like they sex is amazing, or good or whatever. 

To me, it sounds like you want her to perform for you… aka, be more into it. 

What exactly do you wish she would do more for you?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> So In your head your wife has just gotten comfortable in the marriage. To me it seems like she is happy… happy with her life, happy with her sex life. Women don’t have to do this full blown big performance during sex to like it. Many times we love sex and we can do it quietly without a lot of hog wash and still love it and be satisfied. I think a lot of men need this like… performance to make them feel like they sex is amazing, or good or whatever.
> 
> To me, it sounds like you want her to perform for you… aka, be more into it.
> 
> What exactly do you wish she would do more for you?


No I see why you’d think that, but I don’t need a huge performance or anything. My ego isn’t that fragile.

My concern comes from the fact that she never initiates sex, she never makes any gesture of romance or intimacy and when we do have sex I want it to be amazing for both of us, so I try to get her to tell me what she likes/doesn’t like or anything that she thinks would enhance the experience.

I am always met with “it’s fine how we do it, I have no complaints”. She can talk to me about anything and everything except bedroom stuff and this is where my concern lies. I want us to be totally in sync.


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## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> No I see why you’d think that, but I don’t need a huge performance or anything. My ego isn’t that fragile.
> 
> My concern comes from the fact that she never initiates sex, she never makes any gesture of romance or intimacy and when we do have sex I want it to be amazing for both of us, so I try to get her to tell me what she likes/doesn’t like or anything that she thinks would enhance the experience.
> 
> I am always met with “it’s fine how we do it, I have no complaints”. She can talk to me about anything and everything except bedroom stuff and this is where my concern lies. I want us to be totally in sync.


She’s always been like this though right? Does she orgasm? Or has she given up with the idea?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> She’s always been like this though right? Does she orgasm? Or has she given up with the idea?


No, she used to put in quite a bit of effort when we were younger and dating, albeit, she has never enjoyed talking about sex or what she likes.

She orgasms through oral foreplay and I am more than happy to do that for her (to be honest, I love doing it).

She only lets me do it one out of every 3 times we have sex. The rest of the time she says, she just wants a quickie because it normally takes about 15-20 mins. Thats time I’m happy to put in, but again, she doesn’t seem to want to give me the time.


----------



## Girl_power (Aug 11, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> No, she used to put in quite a bit of effort when we were younger and dating, albeit, she has never enjoyed talking about sex or what she likes.
> 
> She orgasms through oral foreplay and I am more than happy to do that for her (to be honest, I love doing it).
> 
> She only lets me do it one out of every 3 times we have sex. The rest of the time she says, she just wants a quickie because it normally takes about 15-20 mins. Thats time I’m happy to put in, but again, she doesn’t seem to want to give me the time.


Yea sometimes we want quickies with no orgasms, and other times we want longer more drawn out sex. She sounds very normal to me.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Girl_power said:


> Yea sometimes we want quickies with no orgasms, and other times we want longer more drawn out sex. She sounds very normal to me.


Well it’s always good to get a female perspective, so thank you.


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PressOfficer87 said:


> No I see why you’d think that, but I don’t need a huge performance or anything. My ego isn’t that fragile.
> 
> My concern comes from the fact that she never initiates sex, she never makes any gesture of romance or intimacy and when we do have sex I want it to be amazing for both of us, so I try to get her to tell me what she likes/doesn’t like or anything that she thinks would enhance the experience.
> 
> I am always met with “it’s fine how we do it, I have no complaints”. She can talk to me about anything and everything except bedroom stuff and this is where my concern lies. I want us to be totally in sync.


Why doubt that she really is fine with your sex life though, if she's telling you that?

Are there any ways that she demonstrates consideration towards you?


----------



## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PressOfficer87 said:


> No, she used to put in quite a bit of effort when we were younger and dating, albeit, she has never enjoyed talking about sex or what she likes.
> 
> She orgasms through oral foreplay and I am more than happy to do that for her (to be honest, I love doing it).


Good stuff.



PressOfficer87 said:


> She only lets me do it one out of every 3 times we have sex. The rest of the time she says, she just wants a quickie because it normally takes about 15-20 mins. Thats time I’m happy to put in, but again, she doesn’t seem to want to give me the time.


The rest of the time she wants a quickie but then doesn't make time for that to happen? 
I'm confused ...are you sharing in a quickie or not?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> Good stuff.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apologies I may not be making myself clear as to what the problem is.

Ok, so I know love making isn’t always red hot passion and long sensual sessions etc, but it should surely be like that sometimes? Like, two people being spontaneous and getting lost in the moment with each other?

In our case it is never like that.

She is fine with a quickie and the occasional orgasm and so if we were in our 50s or 60s that might be fine, but we’re still young and it concerns me that she never has the energy or inclination to spice things up, have more frequent sex or to really open up. 

I obviously don’t know what other hetro relationships are like but I assume there are occasions where the female initiates sex, makes an effort to be romantic or to call the shots as to how when the act takes place. That doesn’t happen for us.

Sex is an evening only activity and it takes place before sleep, despite me continually suggesting we start earlier to spend more time together. However, she always finds a reason as to why it shouldn’t take place earlier or spontaneously.

When it does happen it‘s usually missionary (at her request) and it’s a case of get it done quickly.

I am grateful to hear from women on this matter though, as maybe I am being unfair to my wife and this is a me issue, rather than something that requires her to make more effort, so thank you.

I guess I just feel a tad taken for granted, as I feel I make all the effort in terms of romantic gestures, sexual initiation and leading proceedings in the bedroom.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Looks to me like you developed different concepts of lovemaking over the years. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, you don't seem to like your wife's idea of lovemaking. She's probably not that much into sex any more, so she is making you happy with twice a week, although the performance is lacklustre. What about a good long session, once a week? Would you be happy with that?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> Looks to me like you developed different concepts of lovemaking over the years. Nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, you don't seem to like your wife's idea of lovemaking. She's probably not that much into sex any more, so she is making you happy with twice a week, although the performance is lacklustre. What about a good long session, once a week? Would you be happy with that?



I think I’d just be happy if I felt she was there in the moment with me, regardless of how long it goes on for.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I think I’d just be happy if I felt she was there in the moment with me, regardless of how long it goes on for.


I guess I was lucky because my wife was "there" during sex... but I struggled with her lack of intimacy and desire for me throughout our marriage. I think she initiated twice in 30 years. I know it wasn't her fault to a certain degree, but I know exactly how you feel.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I guess I was lucky because my wife was "there" during sex... but I struggled with her lack of intimacy and desire for me throughout our marriage. I think she initiated twice in 30 years. I know it wasn't her fault to a certain degree, but I know exactly how you feel.


And that’s the thing. She’s there for me in every other aspect, except this.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I think I’d just be happy if I felt she was there in the moment with me, regardless of how long it goes on for.


It sounds like she isn't very passionate with you/maybe isn't very attracted to you. I'm not sure there's a lot you can do about that. Unfortunately it happens. I've had a couple of female friends over the years who have admitted they aren't very attracted to their husbands and sex was more or less just something they thought they should do.

The situation usually comes to some sort of crises (for him,) when the kids are older. At which point the guy (and people advising him) will merely blame it on "premenopause" or "menopause" instead of the actual, glaring truth.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> The situation usually comes to some sort of crises (for him,) when the kids are older. At which point the guy (and people advising him) will merely blame it on "premenopause" or "menopause" instead of the actual, glaring truth.


It's a good excuse for a woman... I personally would use it if...

1) were a woman  
2) I didn't find my husband attractive any more, or maybe I never found him attractive... I

But the OP here says they are still quite young...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

PressOfficer87 said:


> And that’s the thing. She’s there for me in every other aspect, except this.


Unfortunately, as you get older, it's only going to get worse. You and she might want to talk with a sex therapist, but if your wife is happy where she is, it probably will not help. Your story could be told by a LOT of men on this board. What you're experiencing is very common. I remember the story of a couple who decided to have kids. The wife chased the husband for sex every day until she finally got pregnant. Same for the second kid. After that, she never pursued him sexually and acted just like your wife -- accommodating but not excited at all. Inevitably, when the husband tried to get back to a reasonable schedule, she accused him of never thinking about anything except sex. I wasn't surprised to learn that he decided to get satisfaction outside of the marriage. (I don't know how they finally ended up, but they probably split.)


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PressOfficer87 said:


> When it does happen it‘s usually missionary (at her request) and it’s a case of get it done quickly.


My post doesn’t address your angst but just to this aspect, do you flip her to other positions? I know that’s still you taking initiative - I’m just wondering if this is something that does, or could, occur as a way to switch things up and add an element of exciting unpredictability?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Unfortunately, as you get older, it's only going to get worse. You and she might want to talk with a sex therapist, but if your wife is happy where she is, it probably will not help. Your story could be told by a LOT of men on this board. What you're experiencing is very common. I remember the story of a couple who decided to have kids. The wife chased the husband for sex every day until she finally got pregnant. Same for the second kid. After that, she never pursued him sexually and acted just like your wife -- accommodating but not excited at all. Inevitably, when the husband tried to get back to a reasonable schedule, she accused him of never thinking about anything except sex. I wasn't surprised to learn that he decided to get satisfaction outside of the marriage. (I don't know how they finally ended up, but they probably split.)


Cheating on my wife or leaving her isn’t even on my mind. The rest of our marriage is rock solid and if this is the way of it until death do us part, then so be it. I’d rather have this issue re intimacy, then not be able to be with her at all.

However, I do agree that talking to a sex therapist might be a worthwhile Avenue to explore.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> My post doesn’t address your angst but just to this aspect, do you flip her to other positions? I know that’s still you taking initiative - I’m just wondering if this is something that does, or could, occur as a way to switch things up and add an element of exciting unpredictability?


It‘s a valid point, and yes I do try to switch up positions locations etc but am usually met with resistance for a variety of reasons.

She is relatively happy to go on top and this is fine. However, by her own admission she lacks cardio fitness and doesn’t like looking down on herself much. As such, this often results in her being on top and lying down almost. This means the work is on me re thrust etc and she can sometimes almost be just dead weight (gorgeous dead weight) but still a challenge. I actually tore a back muscle once because there wasn’t any cooperation on her end.

I used to love doing doggy with her and we were quite good at it. Sadly she now believes that since giving birth her body has changed to the extent that she can’t do it anymore. Hurts too much and she can’t get her angles right.

sometimes we do 69 but she says she can’t do it for long because she can’t support her weight on her arms.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PressOfficer87 said:


> It‘s a valid point, and yes I do try to switch up positions locations etc but am usually met with resistance for a variety of reasons.
> 
> She is relatively happy to go on top and this is fine. However, by her own admission she lacks cardio fitness and doesn’t like looking down on herself much. As such, this often results in her being on top and lying down almost. This means the work is on me re thrust etc and she can sometimes almost be just dead weight (gorgeous dead weight) but still a challenge. I actually tore a back muscle once because there wasn’t any cooperation on her end.
> 
> ...


If she's this unfit in her 30s that she doesn't have the strength or stamina to be on top or participate in 69, I'd be worried if I were you.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> If she's this unfit in her 30s that she doesn't have the strength or stamina to be on top or participate in 69, I'd be worried if I were you.


Yeah I am a tad worried re her fitness. Not her physique, or physical appearance. She’s gorgeous. However, this all seems to be linked to the effort she’s willing to put in to things.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> It‘s a valid point, and yes I do try to switch up positions locations etc but am usually met with resistance for a variety of reasons.
> 
> She is relatively happy to go on top and this is fine. However, by her own admission she lacks cardio fitness and doesn’t like looking down on herself much. As such, this often results in her being on top and lying down almost. This means the work is on me re thrust etc and she can sometimes almost be just dead weight (gorgeous dead weight) but still a challenge. I actually tore a back muscle once because there wasn’t any cooperation on her end.
> 
> ...


I think you have your answer there...


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## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you may just have to get used to it.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Sfort said:


> Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but you may just have to get used to it.


Yeah...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Here are some thoughts to increase participation. 

Depending on how you’re doing missionary it can be tough to also use your hands. Flat on the bed for me I am 1’+ taller than my wife so the angle is bad which makes it challenging for me to say grab her face with a free hand but with practice it becomes possible. So one thing to increase connection is eye contact. One way to get more eye contact for me is I will touch her face and kiss her while I’m plugging away. Eye contact does it for me.

A porn movie style initiation from my wife is a maybe once a year thing when she has that much spontaneous desire. The smaller things when she musters them up I learned to really appreciate. For example if she gets to bed and she says, “Should I put pants on?” That is her trying her hardest and of course the answer is no and I’ll take it from there. Similarly if she lays on me when she comes to bed or touches me at all that is also a signal of receptiveness, but it’s on me to start foreplay and actually turn it into sex. So you can view that initial receptiveness as an initiation if you choose to. It doesn’t have to be grabbing you by the junk and dragging you to the bedroom.

Men’s testosterone peaks early in the day, women’s peaks much later (I think around 8pm). My wife normally has little to no interest in sex before the afternoon. Something to consider when thinking about timing.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

From what you said, OP, I detect a body issue problem... not easy to fix, I'm afraid.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Here are some thoughts to increase participation.
> 
> Depending on how you’re doing missionary it can be tough to also use your hands. Flat on the bed for me I am 1’+ taller than my wife so the angle is bad which makes it challenging for me to say grab her face with a free hand but with practice it becomes possible. So one thing to increase connection is eye contact. One way to get more eye contact for me is I will touch her face and kiss her while I’m plugging away. Eye contact does it for me.
> 
> ...


This is all really useful and thank you for sharing how you’ve come to accept the small initiations.

I don’t really get any of the small initiations either sadly.

If it’s a special occasion or we’ve planned sex in advance she’ll come to bed naked so we can get down to things (eventually). Normally she kinda dulls the mood by wanting to talk about something banal for a good ten minutes first. For the record I’m totally on board with talking to my wife, pillow talk etc, but she’s really bad at reading signals etc.

If she comes to bed in PJs then I know sex hasn’t crossed her mind and probably isn’t on the cards.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> From what you said, OP, I detect a body issue problem... not easy to fix, I'm afraid.


That definitely forms part of the problem, I have no doubt.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> This is all really useful and thank you for sharing how you’ve come to accept the small initiations.
> 
> I don’t really get any of the small initiations either sadly.
> 
> ...


How often do you have sex?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> How often do you have sex?


Twice a week roughly.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Twice a week roughly.


To be honest after reading this board for a while twice a week some men would kill for. It appears that you want her to be more enthusiastic about having sex with you. Yes?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> To be honest after reading this board for a while twice a week some men would kill for. It appears that you want her to be more enthusiastic about having sex with you. Yes?


Yeah and invested in it. You know, feel that she’s putting intimacy first rather than prioritising other things over it.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Yeah and invested in it. You know, feel that she’s putting intimacy first rather than prioritising other things over it.


Clearly it isn’t as important to her as it is to you. People make time for things they really want.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Clearly it isn’t as important to her as it is to you. People make time for things they really want.


Yeah, that’s the sense I’m getting.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Yeah, that’s the sense I’m getting.


What would happen if you stopped initiating sex?


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> What would happen if you stopped initiating sex?


I actually have done that previously. We went for three and a half weeks before she eventually enquired as to why I hadn’t initiated sex.

It led to a discussion about me feeling like I’m always the one who initiates things and she promised to make more on effort. The effort never came.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I actually have done that previously. We went for three and a half weeks before she eventually enquired as to why I hadn’t initiated sex.
> 
> It led to a discussion about me feeling like I’m always the one who initiates things and she promised to make more on effort. The effort never came.


Maybe it is time to do it again. Let her know when she wants some she knows where to find you. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Maybe it is time to do it again. Let her know when she wants some she knows where to find you. 🤷🏼‍♀️


I think you’re right. If I’m honest I’ve been feeling a bit taken for granted for a while now so don’t want to let that feeling fester.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I think you’re right. If I’m honest I’ve been feeling a bit taken for granted for a while now so don’t want to let that feeling fester.


Be honest with her. Tell her your feelings are hurt. See how important it is to her.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Be honest with her. Tell her your feelings are hurt. See how important it is to her.


Sound advice. Thank you.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So you need to straight up tell her what you want I think.

My wife knows I want sex every day. You can read about what I did to increase from maybe once a week and skip a week every now and then to almost every day on my story thread. She’s not down for it every day but she is aware when she skips a day or two now and views it as a problem. 

Ex. she stayed up binging a show after date night last week and didn’t come to bed at all. Next night was maximum full effort including wearing lingerie I bought her.

Aside from quantity I also told her what I wanted in terms of quality and my concerns were similar to yours. Most of the changes there again driven by me however she responds to what I do which works fine.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> So you need to straight up tell her what you want I think.
> 
> My wife knows I want sex every day. You can read about what I did to increase from maybe once a week and skip a week every now and then to almost every day on my story thread. She’s not down for it every day but she is aware when she skips a day or two now and views it as a problem.
> 
> ...


This is really interesting and similar parallels to my own situation.

Do you mind if I ask how you broached the subject?

Don’t want to tackle the subject as if I’m attacking her.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

PressOfficer87 said:


> This is really interesting and similar parallels to my own situation.
> 
> Do you mind if I ask how you broached the subject?
> 
> Don’t want to tackle the subject as if I’m attacking her.


Key point is to use “I” and not “you”. There are entire books about this but instead of talking about her or what she does or doesn’t do instead frame things around yourself.

“I feel unwanted and undesired sometimes because I don’t get to connect with you in this way as often as I’d like.”

Not:

“You never have sex with me.”


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Key point is to use “I” and not “you”. There are entire books about this but instead of talking about her or what she does or doesn’t do instead frame things around yourself.
> 
> “I feel unwanted and undesired sometimes because I don’t get to connect with you in this way as often as I’d like.”
> 
> ...


Thats incredibly useful. Thank you. Fingers crossed she responds well.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Thats incredibly useful. Thank you. Fingers crossed she responds well.


Be careful on this one my dude. Make a list of things you want to say ahead of time and maybe practice using “I” a bunch. It’s very easy if she comes back with excuses to start using “you” and it won’t be constructive. You want to frame things such that your sexual relationship has a problem and it makes you (I) feel this or that.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Be careful on this one my dude. Make a list of things you want to say ahead of time and maybe practice using “I” a bunch. It’s very easy if she comes back with excuses to start using “you” and it won’t be constructive. You want to frame things such that your sexual relationship has a problem and it makes you (I) feel this or that.


Excellent advice. I already keep a journal so I suppose I can take some of the thoughts and feelings from that and try structuring my points so it doesn’t seem like it’s a list of reasons why I think our sex life bad.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

One other key point, ask her when you’re not in the bedroom when a good time to talk would be. If she asks about what say “our sexual relationship”, now is ok if you’re ready but depending on her mindset when you spring it on her she might not be ready. So have her set a time in that case.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> One other key point, ask her when you’re not in the bedroom when a good time to talk would be. If she asks about what say “our sexual relationship”, now is ok if you’re ready but depending on her mindset when you spring it on her she might not be ready. So have her set a time in that case.


That’s great advice, man, thank you.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> That’s great advice, man, thank you.


I think it may be a very hard conversation. In her mind I am sure your sex life is fine. Twice a week is not bad especially if you read these boards long enough. She is going to feel bad that she has not pleased you. You might want to prepare for that.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I think it may be a very hard conversation. In her mind I am sure your sex life is fine. Twice a week is not bad especially if you read these boards long enough. She is going to feel bad that she has not pleased you. You might want to prepare for that.


It depends what her expectation is. My wife knows I am a horny mofo and she was actively shutting down initiation for years. So it was no shock to her that there was a problem and she knew it was a problem.

Now if she’s not turning you down ever, but she is avoiding you because she knows you’ll initiate she knows that’s a rejection. So this won’t be a shock.

The main question is whether she understands your baseline of how often you really want to have sex. For many years for me it was at least twice a day every day so my wife had that as baseline knowledge of where I used to be at.


----------



## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I think it may be a very hard conversation. In her mind I am sure your sex life is fine. Twice a week is not bad especially if you read these boards long enough. She is going to feel bad that she has not pleased you. You might want to prepare for that.


Another great point. I don’t want to play this as ‘me, the man is unhappy with you, the woman and your performance in bed’. That would be awful and I couldn’t live with myself if I made her feel that way

i just want to get her to open up to me about why she views sex and the issue of effort and romance the way she does and if there’s potential for us to build on our existing relationship together.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It depends what her expectation is. My wife knows I am a horny mofo and she was actively shutting down initiation for years. So it was no shock to her that there was a problem and she knew it was a problem.
> 
> Now if she’s not turning you down ever, but she is avoiding you because she knows you’ll initiate she knows that’s a rejection. So this won’t be a shock.
> 
> The main question is whether she understands your baseline of how often you really want to have sex. For many years for me it was at least twice a day every day so my wife had that as baseline knowledge of where I used to be at.


I definitely think it’ll be a case of me lowering expectations while maybe she ups the effort somewhat, so maybe we meet in the middle.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Another great point. I don’t want to play this as ‘me, the man is unhappy with you, the woman and your performance in bed’. That would be awful and I couldn’t live with myself if I made her feel that way
> 
> i just want to get her to open up to me about why she views sex and the issue of effort and romance the way she does and if there’s potential for us to build on our existing relationship together.


I’m speaking as a woman. We tend to be more emotional. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I’m speaking as a woman. We tend to be more emotional. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Hopefully I can discuss this in a way that is constructive for both of us. I’m always willing to hear critique of my performance too so I can make things better for her too.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Hopefully I can discuss this in a way that is constructive for both of us. I’m always willing to hear critique of my performance too so I can make things better for her too.


Well I’m sure you would not want to hear that she is bored in bed or that your performance is less than stellar. It’s a touchy subject for sure.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

PressOfficer87 said:


> I definitely think it’ll be a case of me lowering expectations while maybe she ups the effort somewhat, so maybe we meet in the middle.


It took us many months to settle out on what that is but we have been fairy stable since that.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> It took us many months to settle out on what that is but we have been fairy stable since that.


I’m glad, buddy.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> Well I’m sure you would not want to hear that she is bored in bed or that your performance is less than stellar. It’s a touchy subject for sure.


Actually, if I were awful in bed (and I may very well be) then I’d really like her to tell me so I can improve.

My first serious GF back in university basically told me that my entire technique at the time was terrible. I’d only lost my virginity a couple of months previously so was greener than the Hulk with envy.

It stung a little, but when she walked me thru everything and taught me about what she liked and what women mostly will or won’t like, I loved it.

Still to this day credit that ex with helping me raise my game and figuring out how to make a woman come.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Actually, if I were awful in bed (and I may very well be) then I’d really like her to tell me so I can improve.
> 
> My first serious GF back in university basically told me that my entire technique at the time was terrible. I’d only lost my virginity a couple of months previously so was greener than the Hulk with envy.
> 
> ...


I understand that you would want to know so you could improve but it would hurt a bit.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Cheating on my wife or leaving her isn’t even on my mind. The rest of our marriage is rock solid and if this is the way of it until death do us part, then so be it. I’d rather have this issue re intimacy, then not be able to be with her at all.
> 
> However, I do agree that talking to a sex therapist might be a worthwhile Avenue to explore.





Torninhalf said:


> I think it may be a very hard conversation. In her mind I am sure your sex life is fine. Twice a week is not bad especially if you read these boards long enough. She is going to feel bad that she has not pleased you. You might want to prepare for that.


Sounds like it's not the frequency, but the effort that's the issue. Sounds like she doesn't put any emotional, sexual, or even physical energy into it. Just because she's consenting to having sex doesn't mean she cares about making it a good experience for you. Sounds like she doesn't, actually.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> I understand that you would want to know so you could improve but it would hurt a bit.


Oh, undoubtedly.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Sounds like it's not the frequency, but the effort that's the issue. Sounds like she doesn't put any emotional, sexual, or even physical energy into it. Just because she's consenting to having sex doesn't mean she cares about making it a good experience for you. Sounds like she doesn't, actually.


exactly


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Another great point. I don’t want to play this as ‘me, the man is unhappy with you, the woman and your performance in bed’. That would be awful and I couldn’t live with myself if I made her feel that way
> 
> i just want to get her to open up to me about why she views sex and the issue of effort and romance the way she does and if there’s potential for us to build on our existing relationship together.


Please correct me if I'm wrong. Based on what you have shared, I have understood the following (and I'm going to use bullet points to try to keep me on track - and applying the term 'sharing' sex as another wise TAM poster does which I've adopted for it's positive approach).


In general, you share a good bond and rapport
She has indicated that she is content with your shared sex life
You're sharing sex twice a week, sometimes with oral included - mutually focused or otherwise
She prefers quickies at night and missionary
She is unfit which impacts certain positions between you
There's indication she feels self-conscious about her body
She's not willing to workout at the moment
You are physically attracted to her
You feel taken for granted due to her lack of initiation, and perhaps enthusiasm
You have spoken about that in the past and nothing changed
You feel that she wants sex over with quickly - indicating lack of connection, interest, enthusiasm
You want to feel desired by her and sound bored with the sexual routine
I don't know if what I'm offering is a good suggestion or not. It's only from my world view from a 'random of the interwebz'.

Trust what she tells you about how she feels about your sexual connection. She is still actively engaging in sharing sex with you. Accept that her personality style may not be to initiate, and/or she may have 'responsive' desire. Her wanting you to talk about banal things before intimacy may be a way for her to disengage her mind from other aspects of the day. This could actually be her way of becoming 'present' with you, even if the talking isn't of a sexual nature. Unless I have misinterpreted, there doesn't seem to be spontaneous touch or flirtation between you outside of sexual activities. While I am one that initiates (although my man does more so), the way this occurs can vary; it can be in the subtle exchanges and with him then taking the lead. Aside from the way that we are wired, I think that in relationships there's also an aspect of motivation. As a small example, having my man just come up and unexpectedly kiss me, then continue on his day has a motivational aspect for me. And the exchanges between us continue. Another small example, our kitchen is small and when I was standing looking into the fridge, instead of just squeezing by me to get to the other part of the room, he paused to give me a quick shoulder rub. My body language responded in kind that indicated welcoming his touch and next minute (not actually a minute), he's brought me to pleasure. Then after, what was it I was looking for in the fridge again? Oh who cares! It's not planned (as far as I'm aware); those moments occur as brief unexpected interludes, and for me at least, fuels a type of _inspiration. _

While this again doesn't address your angst, or her fitness level, but with 69 for example, have you tried alternative ways whereby she isn't on top? Also, let her know what you find good / sexy... and perhaps inspire a sense of desire towards you. I don't think desire is necessarily derived from being agreeable, either. In the sexual context, if she's telling you that she only wants sex a certain way, maybe there's more of a dominant role you could take that communicates that you're leading her (or mutual) sexual pleasure (obviously consensual and not anything she'd be uncomfortable with). In saying that, it depends on what will fuel her desire... and then have an inspiring impact on her. If you aren't aware, it's not necessarily derived through a conversation if she isn't particularly open with talking about sex. Pay attention to her body language, non-verbal communication, the devil (or pleasure) is in the details. Maybe it's even meeting her where she's at. She wants missionary; okay, maybe add some other element to that. Missionary can be sexy as hell. Recognize that she needs to unwind / talk with you first... all of that is something that she is demonstrating to you. It's unlikely to feel banal to her; I'd risk the assumption that it's her way of actually establishing connection. Keep it positive, light, playful, sexy, and a tad unpredictable.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Additional comment: remember that you're on the same team.

No mental finger-pointing of blame or forms of wallowing permitted 

You're in this together.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

heartsbeating said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong. Based on what you have shared, I have understood the following (and I'm going to use bullet points to try to keep me on track - and applying the term 'sharing' sex as another wise TAM poster does which I've adopted for it's positive approach).
> 
> 
> In general, you share a good bond and rapport
> ...


Bullet points!!!!!


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

sokillme said:


> Bullet points!!!!!


Learning from the best of 'em.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong. Based on what you have shared, I have understood the following (and I'm going to use bullet points to try to keep me on track - and applying the term 'sharing' sex as another wise TAM poster does which I've adopted for it's positive approach).
> 
> 
> In general, you share a good bond and rapport
> ...


Your observations are correct and i appreciate your advice. The more I think about it all, I think the lack of effort etc, seems to go wider than our sex life and I think it’s a case of complacency.

When we first got together I was shocked to find that my wife barely cooked. She would heat up ready meals, or make a baked potato or whatever, but didn’t make proper meals. When I moved in I started cooking to ensure we both ate sensibly. Since then I’ve cooked every single meal and she hasn’t ever tried to learn to cook or step in.

When we had our daughter, my wife suffered PND and so I did everything I could to alleviate some of the stressors. Since day 1 of weaning, I have made all of my daughters dinner time meals (because they require cooking), I also do her baths and get her into her PJs, then my wife reads her a story.

My daughter is a great sleeper but on the occasions where she needs something, it’s myself that gets up with her. When she was little she would not settle for my wife and this increased her anxiety and depression so I stepped in and let my wife sleep. This seems to have continued into the next few years. Even if I’m working, I get up and do the necessary. My wife barely wakes and if she does, she asks ‘shall I go.’ But by that point I’m already awake and getting ready to address whatever is wrong.

Because of COVID I work from home and so when my daughter wakes up, I wait to see if my wife hears her. She normally doesn’t so I get her up, give her breakfast and get her dressed before my wife gets up.

I think she has just got complacent about lots of things and it’s compounded by the fact that sex is included within that.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

In a nutshell, you have a low energy wife.

She is just another dependent.

You are the daddy and the mommy. 

Many wives often find themselves in this role; as a male, you are the exception.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Your observations are correct and i appreciate your advice. The more I think about it all, I think the lack of effort etc, seems to go wider than our sex life and I think it’s a case of complacency.


It’s good that you are seeing a broader perspective as to what is bothering you. In hindsight, I actually feel a bit bad that I didn’t consider too much about more of your potential dynamic, beyond the intimacy stuff raised. It does often seem to go hand-in-hand with other aspects of the relationship. Perhaps you writing it out is helping you in that way?

However, remembering that you’re intended to be on the same team (and perhaps it’s worth checking that she views your dynamic that way), where to from here? I don’t mean for you to have an answer now… just trying to propel you slightly as to what this might mean. I’d hate for you to start brewing resentment and get ‘stuck’ or ‘spiral’ to a negative place.

By the way, full disclosure, I’m not known for my cooking skills either. ☺

No doubt I’ll pop back into your thread, but I really feel the gentlemen of TAM can support you further (and combined with the wise women here, too). Wishing you both the best in the mean-time. It feels like you’re at the precipice of a relationship reset - and hopefully together.


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

Also may I suggest that you re-read page 1 again of your thread? …and yes, more helpful posts follow; it’s just that after reading your latest perspective and then re-reading page 1 again myself, there’s a lot that fits. Best wishes.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

heartsbeating said:


> It’s good that you are seeing a broader perspective as to what is bothering you. In hindsight, I actually feel a bit bad that I didn’t consider too much about more of your potential dynamic, beyond the intimacy stuff raised. It does often seem to go hand-in-hand with other aspects of the relationship. Perhaps you writing it out is helping you in that way?
> 
> However, remembering that you’re intended to be on the same team (and perhaps it’s worth checking that she views your dynamic that way), where to from here? I don’t mean for you to have an answer now… just trying to propel you slightly as to what this might mean. I’d hate for you to start brewing resentment and get ‘stuck’ or ‘spiral’ to a negative place.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all your advice.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> In a nutshell, you have a low energy wife.
> 
> She is just another dependent.
> 
> ...


Always nice to be unique, I suppose...


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Yeah @heartsbeating brought up some good points about what else is going on besides sex. If you’re literally taking care of her like she’s not an adult then it’s easy to see why her brain wouldn’t be thinking of you sexually.

You need to have a good think about what’s actually going on before any confrontation.

I’m going to go ahead and suggest picking up “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by DSO @dadstartingover it is a very quick read/listen. See if anything in there rings true to you and then perform further research.


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## anchorwatch (Mar 5, 2012)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Your observations are correct and i appreciate your advice. The more I think about it all, I think the lack of effort etc, seems to go wider than our sex life and I think it’s a case of complacency.
> 
> When we first got together I was shocked to find that my wife barely cooked. She would heat up ready meals, or make a baked potato or whatever, but didn’t make proper meals. When I moved in I started cooking to ensure we both ate sensibly. Since then I’ve cooked every single meal and she hasn’t ever tried to learn to cook or step in.
> 
> ...


You seem to have gone full circle from your few first post. Sometimes it takes reflecting on different views to lose the blinders. 

It's not all on her. It may be her nature, but you accepted her and played a part in creating this relationship.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

anchorwatch said:


> You seem to have gone full circle from your few first post. Sometimes it takes reflecting on different views to lose the blinders.
> 
> It's not all on her. It may be her nature, but you accepted her and played a part in creating this relationship.


a valid point


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah @heartsbeating brought up some good points about what else is going on besides sex. If you’re literally taking care of her like she’s not an adult then it’s easy to see why her brain wouldn’t be thinking of you sexually.
> 
> You need to have a good think about what’s actually going on before any confrontation.
> 
> I’m going to go ahead and suggest picking up “The Dead Bedroom Fix” by DSO @dadstartingover it is a very quick read/listen. See if anything in there rings true to you and then perform further research.


I‘ll give this a try, thanks


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

PressOfficer87 said:


> Always nice to be unique, I suppose...


You have a good attitude!


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

SunCMars said:


> You have a good attitude!


Only thing for it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

You guys have different styles at home. What if you did a cooking class together where you are a team? She might not cook anymore at home. But maybe she might learn 1 meal, and cook that. And you could learn to bend a bit and let her order in or prepare baked potatoes or whatever once a week just to show it's not all her that has to change. I love cooking but there are days when even I am tired and don't feel like it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

It may be the repetition of sex that is making her less energetic, especially if she always wants the same positions. As other posters mentioned, try mixing it up a bit even in the same position. Do you both still do oral? Are you having or have you had conversations together about fantasies? Maybe she would like something different too but doesn't want to hurt your feelings. Maybe you could ask if she will alternate organizing date night for example? The impression I get is that it's not just her effort in bed that's bothering you but her effort everywhere. Some things you might not change but if you have a healthy communication I'm sure you can take the top 2 things you want to work on together and tackle it as a team.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> You guys have different styles at home. What if you did a cooking class together where you are a team? She might not cook anymore at home. But maybe she might learn 1 meal, and cook that. And you could learn to bend a bit and let her order in or prepare baked potatoes or whatever once a week just to show it's not all her that has to change. I love cooking but there are days when even I am tired and don't feel like it.


something like that would be nice, but we sadly don’t have time at present.


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## jlg07 (Feb 24, 2017)

PressOfficer87 said:


> something like that would be nice, but we sadly don’t have time at present.


So maybe not a CLASS -- but what if YOU taught her a meal or two -- work together in the kitchen? Start working on projects, etc., TOGETHER instead of you doing it yourself?


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

jlg07 said:


> So maybe not a CLASS -- but what if YOU taught her a meal or two -- work together in the kitchen? Start working on projects, etc., TOGETHER instead of you doing it yourself?


That's a lovely idea! She could pick her favorite meal that she orders when she's at a restaurant or something like that and learn to cook it at home together.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

jlg07 said:


> So maybe not a CLASS -- but what if YOU taught her a meal or two -- work together in the kitchen? Start working on projects, etc., TOGETHER instead of you doing it yourself?


Yes, could definitely try that.


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## PressOfficer87 (May 23, 2021)

joannacroc said:


> That's a lovely idea! She could pick her favorite meal that she orders when she's at a restaurant or something like that and learn to cook it at home together.


Definitely worth a shot.


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Have you read about the 5 love languages and looked up responsive desire? 

Have you brought new and exciting ideas into the bedroom or are you just waiting for her to do so? 

If you guys can _have_ sex with each other, you have to learn how to talk about it as well. 

Would reading a romance novel to each other or watching a sexy, romantic - _not_ pornographic - movie help stir things up?


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## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

I’m going to tell to you stop trying and stop talking about it with her.

What stood out to me is that she doesn’t want to dance with you??? That’s the bit where my heart broke for you.

I’m hearing a list of can’t do this position because of weight, don’t like this position because of this... but then she says she’s happy with how things are? She’s not actually happy at all but she’s not going to tell you the truth

Not maternal, not doing much, not contributing to any intimacy.

What does she do for you at all? 

Is she emotional or passionate in any way with anyone? What’s she like socially?


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## heartsbeating (May 2, 2011)

You mentioned complacency… any chance this is still depression? Did she receive support / assistance for the PND?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

heartsbeating said:


> You mentioned complacency… any chance this is still depression? Did she receive support / assistance for the PND?


Sounds like she was this way before kids, per the description...


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## sensitiveguy (Mar 25, 2017)

PressOfficer87 said:


> No, financial obligations aren’t 50/50. I work full time and am the main wage earner. I cover mortgage, utilities, groceries etc. My wife’s wage is to provide us with spending money for stuff like clothing, family gifts etc.
> 
> I 100% agree with the idea that it’s not for me to do more. I guess the picture I’m trying to paint is that I’m not just an under sexed husband complaining that his exhausted wife, who does all the housework and raises our child while I am away can’t find any energy to make an effort with our romantic life.


I am in the same exact boat. I am home a lot to share responsibility with house and kids. I make the money. She seems uninterested in me. No sex for two months now. Granted COVID homeschool has taken a lot out of her. We need ways to attract. Not sure how.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

For OP and the above poster: aren't your wives nervous you'll start to become unhappy in a relationship with no sex for months? Or do they not care, and think you'll remain married to them and also provide a great marrige to them regardless of the quality of the intimate part of the relationship?


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Livvie said:


> *think you'll remain married to them and also provide a great marrige to them regardless of the quality of the intimate part of the relationship?
> *




This. That's the gig about it. These guys become Mr. Mom and the women start to lose interest on them as men. To these women these men are just the stable mate that brings the bacon. When they get all hot and bothered their mind drifts to those hot Alpha males out there. When men become too domesticated they do not elicit that "wanting" response from the women anymore. They have become too complacent and complaisant and so do their women. No more romance needed.


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

Livvie said:


> Or do they not care, and think you'll remain married to them and also provide a great marrige to them regardless of the quality of the intimate part of the relationship?


Bingo. I did a podcast episode for *DSO Fraternity* members about this. I say it's like you're a business that sells a specific widget that's made of a bunch of components. One of the components is made by one company... they're the only company in the world that makes this component... and they have the patent on it so nobody else can or will ever make it in the future. Then your sales start going south, so you try to cut costs. You approach this component manufacturer and ask if they can cut 5 cents off the cost of every component they sell to you. They laugh and say no. In fact, they'll raise the cost by 10 cents per component. Why? Because they know you'll pay it. You have no choice. You'll lay off people and shut down factories before you walk away from your relationship with them. You need them way more than they need you.

Some guys have mentally painted themselves into a corner like this. It's sad.


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## Kaliber (Apr 10, 2020)

@PressOfficer87,I don't know if your still following this thread, but your core problem is right here:



PressOfficer87 said:


> When I moved in I started cooking to ensure we both ate sensibly. Since then I’ve cooked every single meal and she hasn’t ever tried to learn to cook or step in.
> 
> Since day 1 of weaning, I have made all of my daughters dinner time meals (because they require cooking), I also do her baths and get her into her PJs, then my wife reads her a story.


You also said:


PressOfficer87 said:


> When she was little she would not settle for my wife and this increased her anxiety and depression so I stepped in and let my wife sleep. This seems to have continued into the next few years. Even if I’m working, I get up and do the necessary. My wife barely wakes and if she does, she asks ‘shall I go.’ But by that point I’m already awake and getting ready to address whatever is wrong.


That contradicts what you said about 50/50 responsibility.

You are *simply *the _feminine _male at home, that is *NOT *attractive for any women out there, and I would grantee you she doesn't find you attractive or have the hots for you (even if she claims to).
She is putting you in the provider category only, not the lover one.
The sex she is given you is called "duty sex" to keep you around!
No amount of therapy will fix that, its a relationship dynamics issue!
This is happening subconsciously, not under her control, women don't want _feminine men_!
I'm truly worried about your future with her, if someone comes along the way who is charming, masculine and confidant (AKA Alpha male) and gets her attention, she will do one of these two:
1- Leave you, and start a new life with that new guy.
2- Cheat on you and keep you around as a provider!

Don't believe me? go check out infidelity and relationship forums and read the stories for yourself!

Your current relationship dynamics is a ticking bomb!


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