# I have no one to talk to....



## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

We have been together for 25 years and have children under 18. I'm a stay at home mom. He works full time and is out of town weekly. 

I feel like I've lost my identity. At times I feel like I don't have a voice or a feeling of control. I feel stuck. Sometimes I feel partially stalked and distrusted. I do not feel listened to. I have no close friends or family I can confide in. My friends are his friends. 

We are in marriage counseling. I don't feel like I'm being heard there either. He comes in with a list if things that bother him. I bring up things too. She offers suggestions (circle of control, assertive speaking, using "I" language) but I feel that I'm the only one who is putting this advice to use. She has repeatedly said I need time to myself, but that seems to fall in deaf ears or he insists I go to yoga and feels that's "me" time. He is not doing any of what she suggests. 

When something bothers him, I get the silent treatment until I insist on knowing why. He says he doesn't bring things up because I always have a reason for my actions. I do listen to his complaints openly without interrupting. I have learned to offer an apology even if what I did caused feelings I didn't I intend. I get that. I try to respond differently in the future. But I do sometimes want to explain my line of thinking so it's not seen as intentional or not antagonistic. He sees this as excusing myself and blaming him. I see it as discussing how we got to that point to avoid the same pattern of behavior. Maybe I'm wrong. 

When I bring something up, he puts words in my mouth, tells me I'm overreacting and thinks that once he has given an inch, he has no reason to apologize even if I'm not looking to get my way, just looking for my viewpoint to be heard. 

When he is angry with me, he dotes on the kids and is super friendly to everyone around us while barely talking to me. When I am upset and he won't listen or acts even uglier because I'm overreacting and bringing up ridiculous things, I cry. I'm not good at holding my feelings in anymore especially at home when it's just our family. The kids get upset as they, I believe, understand because he treats them the same way during conflict. They will sometimes avoid him during these episodes. He says I'm being manipulative with my tears and making him look like a monster. The kids are making their own assumptions based on what they see. My tears are not purposeful and definitely not an act. I wish I didn't feel so sad about this. 

When he decides the episode is over (usually I'm given a half-apology that's sarcastic to some extent) I should drop it and resume normal behavior. This means in bed too. 

Recently he decided I needed to try anti-anxiety medicine. Yes, I am anxious, especially about all of this. I agreed but felt it just masked my feelings and made me ignore and overlook things instead of speaking my feelings. I also felt very tired and drugged even on the lowest dosage. I also had NO libido. That's not what he was hoping for, apparently. 

Finally, I feel controlled. My opinions don't always count when he wants something different. We have security cameras, Find my IPhone, a shared cloud for documents, etc. I get criticized for posting on social media. I don't post daily and do not air family laundry. I do post my opinions on things sometimes. If those opinions are not 100% how he thinks, he says people make comments to him about my posts. On my own page, people comment about how much my posts touch them and encourage them to see things differently. Honestly, I'm not edgy or controversial. I don't post trash, I don't trash people, and I don't post things that are exploitative at all. Most of it is about open-mindedness and empathy, and finding the silver lining, to be honest. 

Life at our house is busy, chaotic at times and imperfect when he's out of town. When he is home, it's filled with tension and frustration. I'm speaking for me, but I see it in my children too. They gravitate to me and complain often about their dad, but I try to not become their go-between unless I feel they really need someone to speak up. Then I do so when they are not there to hear. I do expect them to obey their dad and speak and act respectfully to him and about him, but I feel their pain at not feeling respected by him. 

No one who knows my husband seems to see this. Everyone seems to think he's a great guy, and he loves getting attention for being a great husband and father. I feel like it's a bit fake at times. I also think he takes credit for things the rest of us do when he was no part of it. I'm not an attention seeker, but seeing someone else relish on the attention for something they didn't do is annoying too. 

Where do I even start? We are going on vacation soon. I'm tempted to take the anxiety meds just so I won't be bothered by his behavior. But I feel like I'm not being true to my own feelings by doing so. 






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## Herschel (Mar 27, 2016)

Why stay?


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Come here as often as you like and talk.
...............................................................................................................

I hate the thought of anti-anxiety meds.

I personally would refuse to take them. No one silences me.

If you think you are mentally OK, then tell HIM to take them. 

If you know YOU have a problem then give them a try.

In the interest of your own mental well being, take them.

Give them six months to see if they help. If they do not, then tell your doctor.

Get his instructions on how to get off of them. Do not just quit cold turkey.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Read this book; it will explain everything:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/why-does-he-do-that-lundy-bancroft/1102335902

And stop going to MC; he just uses it as one more weapon to manipulate and control you.

Instead, find a good personal therapist. NOTHING is going to improve in your marriage until you start going to your own therapy, without him.


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## Remee81 (May 24, 2017)

cindyb1969 said:


> We have been together for 25 years and have children under 18. I'm a stay at home mom. He works full time and is out of town weekly.
> 
> I feel like I've lost my identity. At times I feel like I don't have a voice or a feeling of control. I feel stuck. Sometimes I feel partially stalked and distrusted. I do not feel listened to. I have no close friends or family I can confide in. My friends are his friends.
> 
> ...




Leave him. This is my ex, plus cheating. Everyone thinks he's such a great guy, that he would never treat the kids badly, or abuse me emotionally, and physically, and sexually. Your husband is emotionally abusing the whole family and sounds like a sociopath to me. Textbook. He's never wrong u always are, makes excuses for all his behavior, puts on a show for everyone else. Doesn't bother trying to fix your marriage. 
U aren't alone! I went through this for years, I'm still going through it having to coparent with him. Do u feel like u need those meds? Or r u taking them to appease him and escape the stress he inflicts? 
You need to get out of there, or better yet kick him out. Get a divorce lawyer and get custody and child support. This is a toxic marriage, and the longer I stay the worse it will effect you and your kids. My kids hate seeing their father. Hates his gf even more. 
If u need to talk, private message me any time. This won't be easy if u choose to get out but it is so worth it! I am happy now, and my kids have a wonderful male roll model in their life, not just his crazy ass. I can't relay enough how sorry I am, and I'm serious when I say I'm here to talk with vent to or ask questions. 


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## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

Herschel said:


> Why stay?




For a few reasons:

It hasn't always been this bad. He's always kept tabs on me, but he says it's for my safety. 

I have NO support system. None. 

Financially, I'm completely dependent on him. One of our children is significantly disabled, so I have to be home. I've not worked in years and am not current in my field. It's not a career that has part-time options. I could not support our family on what income I could bring in and I couldn't provide the kids what they need, especially the one that is disabled. 

I do think he loves us and wants to do right by us. I just don't know how to get him to listen and consider other points of view. He seems so narrow-minded as time goes on. 

In therapy, said we are told we can't and shouldn't try to change people. But I am willing to do my part to improve our marriage. What is one to do when the other person isn't willing to apply the principles being presented? Why is the therapist not seeing the one-sidedness of this? 

I just keep going back to thinking I must be missing something, like maybe it's just me. 


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

We have been together for 26 years and have children under 18. I'm a stay at home mom. He works full time and is out of town weekly.

I feel like I've lost my identity. At times I feel like I don't have a voice or a feeling of control. I feel stuck.

Yep. I totally am you. (Is it as bad as these people say?!) But reading this, you sound so helpless, like you have no control. You know that's not true. You take care of those kids without the man there. That's really hard. And I hate it but I take meds now too. I think it's a rather stupid, stressful lifestyle but that's never been my choice. It super sucks but you can't just keep going with the flow in this sewage if you expect to get out. Throw us some life rings, somebody.

My husband thought going to the grocery store was great alone time for me. Can you make a friend at yoga and go to lunch after? If you think your MC is one-sided, find another. If your man isn't doing anything suggested, demand that you quit wasting your time. Your kids can't be that young, can they? Decide what you want to do, tell the man, then leave. Unless they're in danger, they will be OK. Do you want to stay married to this guy?

I'm doing my own therapy and it's helping me see that the way I communicate does not demand attention. I knew that, but I didn't know how. I still don't completely, but I'm working on it. I send mixed messages then wonder why my intention doesn't come across. He might be trying to control you because you don't seem to know what to do. I imagine your original love connection or whatever got you together in the first place is damaged. Of course. Why would you sign up for this treatment?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

cindyb1969 said:


> We have been together for 25 years and have children under 18. I'm a stay at home mom. He works full time and is out of town weekly.
> 
> I feel like I've lost my identity. At times I feel like I don't have a voice or a feeling of control. I feel stuck. Sometimes I feel partially stalked and distrusted. I do not feel listened to. I have no close friends or family I can confide in. My friends are his friends.
> 
> ...




How old are you? Have you had your hormones tested recently. I would suggest this as you may be peri menopausal. It can play havoc with your mental health and relationships. Please check this out first.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

cindyb1969 said:


> Why is the therapist not seeing the one-sidedness of this?
> 
> I just keep going back to thinking I must be missing something, like maybe it's just me.
> 
> ...


Have you told the therapist how it's one-sided? I so felt the same way when we tried MC a couple years ago. I felt attacked, like both of them were blaming me. We did not stay in. Time tells me I was correct; it was bad counsel. I didn't know it but things got worse. 2 years later, we tried another MC who I felt truly was neutral. She pointed out how he could do certain things against me and made me see his point of view. We haven't been back due to work/timing but it was helpful.

Quit doubting yourself. Trust your instincts. If something's wrong, you know it! Never give up.


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## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

KrisAmiss;.
My husband thought going to the grocery store was great alone time for me. [/QUOTE said:


> Omg. I could have written that statement exactly. He always asks me if I had fun. Really???
> 
> Honestly, I think personal counseling sounds so much better. I really need to learn how to. Or react or react differently. I do think my crying and feeling emotionally desperate and I heard shows and feeds the problem.
> 
> ...


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## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

aine said:


> How old are you? Have you had your hormones tested recently. I would suggest this as you may be peri menopausal. It can play havoc with your mental health and relationships. Please check this out first.




Yes. This is a very strong component. I agree that hormones can definitely exacerbate things and cause stronger reactions. Good point, and point taken. 

But...it only accounts for my reaction, not his behavior and lack of listening to my concerns. I listen to his and changed the way I react. We find solutions to his issues he has. Mine are all ridiculous and not worthy of being heard. 

I am taking otc supplements to help with perimenopause. I've done a lot of research and addressing of the lovely changes. But I don't tend to react well to meds even at low doses. Even at the lowest dose of this mild anxiety medicine, I could have slept all day and cared less what words were said to me. I was emotionally numb. A second medication proved to be the same as the first. 

I tried them because what did I have to lose? I kept taking them beyond what I wanted to appease him even though I felt awful because
he insisted it would get better after a few
days...then a week....then two. That's when it started feeling manipulative because it was taking all anxiety away. I got nothing accomplished at all for those 4 weeks, but nothing was worth speaking out about either. I felt TOO compliant and like I had zero personality anymore. Flat. 


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

cindyb1969 said:


> Omg. I could have written that statement exactly.
> Somewhere along the line, I just feel like my voice wasn't enough anymore for him to take my concerns seriously.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We are living parallel lives.

My man admits to at least one pivital time where he didn't listen. My needs weren't considered at all. He was completely wrong not to and it hurt our marriage and me personally, as in long term damage. I'm not sure if I could've ever gotten loud enough to matter. I so feel like a 1950's housewife at times and it's stupid because I'm educated and have options.

I'd like to think we're getting our marriage back on track. But truly, he owes you half of whatever you have and it may be hard to divorce yada yada, but you have a choice. I don't want to for a lot of reasons and one is very unselfish in that I think if he doesn't "need" me now, he will eventually. I don't want to abandon him any more than I want to leave my kids. He's my family.

Anyway, get that therapy. I've learned what should've been obvious. I think he doesn't like me; well, sometimes I don't like him. I think he doesn't care; like I don't always express well, perhaps he doesn't either. It's hard to find a good therapist but the one I have has helped.

I say, surprise him with fun and love. Do something different for when he comes home this week. Make it fun for the both of you. Pretend that you love him. ;-)


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

cindyb1969 said:


> Yes. This is a very strong component. I agree that hormones can definitely exacerbate things and cause stronger reactions. Good point, and point taken.
> 
> But...it only accounts for my reaction, not his behavior and lack of listening to my concerns. I listen to his and changed the way I react. We find solutions to his issues he has. Mine are all ridiculous and not worthy of being heard.
> 
> ...


You cannot change him but you can get IC for yourself and then decide if you really want to stay or go.


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## james5588 (Mar 22, 2017)

I started on meds a couple of months ago to manage anxiety and mild depression. 

I see it as a tool that can either help or be misused. I feel significantly better and much more grounded. I suppose there is a numbing component. But, as long I stay focused and true to myself, I can avoid rug-sweeping my issues. 

So the meds, when used properly enable me to better cope and ultimately resolve my 'stuff'.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cindyb1969 said:


> For a few reasons:
> 
> It hasn't always been this bad. He's always kept tabs on me, but he says it's for my safety.
> 
> ...


Did you have family and friends when you married him? What happened to them?

Financially, you are entitled to MORE than 50% of everything accumulated in the marriage, since you have a disabled child. He is financially on the hook for half of all your assets AND child support and possibly several other forms of financial responsibility. Have you been to a lawyer yet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cindyb1969 said:


> I just keep going back to thinking I must be missing something, like maybe it's just me.


Have you ordered the book yet?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

KrisAmiss said:


> My husband thought going to the grocery store was great alone time for me.


My husband told me I should be going to the grocery store on my LUNCH BREAK from work. You know, so that every other second of my time was to be with HIM.


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## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

well you can certainly talk to us. But that is not as good as human to human interaction.

How about meetup.com? there are tons of groups for all sorts of interests. Maybe find a group on something you like, such as photography or dog hiking, join it, and get out of the house and do it. You will find others in similar situations to yours, who also need a friend to talk to.

Another idea, go to a local college, and take some night courses. Maybe in fiction writing, or computer skills, or whatever.

Or maybe try starting up your own company. You will NOT have time to worry about talking to other, since your day will be FILLED with talking to others.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cindyb1969 said:


> I'm a strong person. I can handle a lot. I am very empathetic and kind but have learned to avoid situations where things will get one-sided. This used to be a give-take relationship. Some things were always a "thing" but they were bearable. I would never say that it wasn't both ways either. I know I have my faults too. I just feel like I work on mine. I give 100% in everything I do.
> 
> Somewhere along the line, I just feel like my voice wasn't enough anymore for him to take my concerns seriously. And for whatever reason, marriage counseling seems to be making it worse. I never thought that was a possibility without seeing a light at the end of the tunnel. I do see it as just another way to manipulate me.


Abusers target women who will withstand a TON. Take on more and more and more and more and never crumble, just keep giving, keep her mouth shut, assume SHE is the problem, let him make the decisions so as to avoid 'stress.' And yes, abusers USE marriage counseling to solidify their power over you.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, _you are being abused_.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

It's not a coincidence that you have no one to talk to. 

Your situation sounds exactly like my first marriage, right down to the traveling and kids reactions when he was home. When we split up people asked if the traveling was the problem and I would respond that the more he traveled, the better we got along...Him being home was the problem.

A few painful truths from my experience

he is probably cheating. There is a reason men like him choose careers that require travel. They are incapable of being invested in anyone elses life and the travel allows them maintain the distance they need to be able to function in a relationship.

Telling you that explaining yourself is making excuses and blaming him is a deliberate manipulation meant to make you doubt your intentions, exploit your sense of being responsible for your own actions and deflect from the possibility (probability) that he actually is to blame for whatever the issue is.

When you are able to begin to see thru his bull****, it is likely he will leave, like a cockroach scurrying when the light come on...He can't allow being seen and known for who he truly is.

And this is most important...He knows exactly what he is doing. He is very aware of how his actions and attitude effects you. It is intended to make you believe that if you could just get him to understand he will change...because he really does care and if he understood how he hurts you he would stop. 

The truth is he doesn't care, he knows he hurts you and he does it deliberately because it keeps you in such a state of frustration and anxiety that you are easily controlled and manipulated.

As has been suggested, get the Lundy Bancroft book. It will make you wonder if the author was living in your house when he wrote it.

Feel free to pm me if you need someone to talk to.

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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Same here.


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## Inquisitive1 (Feb 17, 2017)

I didn't read all the posts but I have lived with someone who was controlling and emotionally abusive. 

- Nothing ruins a controller's day like not being in control. Once you recognize his patterns of behavior, stop giving in. Your tears and taking meds provides temporary euphoria for him. Make up your mind to own your emotions and know how you're going to feel in that moment and the rest of the day. Choose happiness and decide to have an amazing day. Then see his reaction. 

- Try and minimize situations where he can exert control. Driving was a big one. I started driving or going to the same place in separate cars. It worked.

- Try to start working on financial independence as soon as possible. Are there online classes you can take or volunteer work you can do to get into the career of your choice? Can your oldest child watch the other two while you're gone for a few hours or can you pay a neighbor to look after your child? Use some of the grocery money to pay for childcare. Hahaha!

HTH



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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

turnera said:


> My husband told me I should be going to the grocery store on my LUNCH BREAK from work. You know, so that every other second of my time was to be with HIM.


Easy fix--my wife and I go to the grocery store together. The chore gets done, it gets done more quickly, and the chore time is together time.

And nobody has any excuse to complain about what's for dinner!

back on topic now...
wringo's post is right on. 

You also need a support system. Since he's not into the MC thing, IC for you with a counselor specifically focused on you would be helpful. 

Find a group to spend time with. Your local area must have some king of newcomers club, book club, ladies lunch meetup or something of the like. There are clubs and meetups for any interest and just for wives with no particular interest as the focus. Churches always have a number so social and/or volunteer organizations. 

Bottom line here; you desperately need other human contact besides an abusive, controlling husband. You need to regain some sense of self to be able to deal with your situation. It will help you in everything from developing some financial independence to standing up to him and not being bullied by his controlling strategy, to ultimately being able to make a decision to leave if that's the right decision for you.


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## tropicalbeachiwish (Jun 1, 2016)

turnera said:


> My husband told me I should be going to the grocery store on my LUNCH BREAK from work. You know, so that every other second of my time was to be with HIM.


WTF?! :surprise:

Did you give him the middle finger?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

No, because back then I didn't realize I was being controlled. I only knew that I could never satisfy him, so I kept doing more and more of what he wanted, hoping THIS thing would get him to stop complaining or THAT thing would elicit some happiness. 

It wasn't for many more years, until I educated myself, that I realized that that's pointless, they will NEVER be satisfied because that's how they exert control - making you continuously dance to please them, and always moving the target so you could never hit it.

And the thing about my time...it was couched in 'I love you so much I want to be with you all the time.' How do you argue that at age 22, when you've never seen a healthy relationship before and you have low or non-existent self esteem to begin with? We went EVERYWHERE together. Haircuts, stores, doctor's appointments...everything. 

When I finally went to therapy - which I only was able to do because it was at work, and not AFTER work - she had ONE homework for me, and we kept trying to get me to do that homework for TWO years (I never did, until many years later). Any time I ever said I was going to go somewhere, he would immediately say "I'll go with you." Like I said, he wanted us to be together ALL the time. That one homework was to tell my H, on a Saturday morning, that I was going to go to the mall - by myself. I never could get up the courage - afraid of the confrontation I knew would come - until DD26 went away to college. Then I had an excuse to go visit her. That was the first time in 28 years I had ever gone and done something without him without a really important reason. 

OP, I'm telling you this because I know how insidious it is, how 'trained' you become to not set off his alarms. And you don't even realize you're doing it until you educate yourself. That's why I hope you're now reading that book I recommended.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

You are BEING ABUSED. Your husband is a controlling bully. He has you believing that you have to depend on him to live, he is controlling. The silent treatment is a passive aggressive tactic, meant to control you and the situation. Stop apologizing to him for crap you didnt do or isnt your fault. You have allowed him to browbeat you into submission, and only you can stand up for yourself.


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## WilliamM (Mar 14, 2017)

You should medicate only if you feel it is necessary for your well being and helpful to you. 

If your husband loved you he would be helping find ways for you two to cope together without you resorting to medication. He should want you to not take medication.

My wife is a problem child, but it's never entered my thoughts to consider even asking her shrinks if there may have been some medication she could have taken. Medication can have its place in the case of chemical imbalances, especially, but certainly should not be used just because your husband is bothered by your attitude.

Wrong, just wrong.

Good luck.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

I'm a happy person by nature. Anyone who knows me would tell you that.
My first marriage had gotten so bad I asked my DR for a anti-anxiety prescription.
It wasn't long before it hit me...if I have to drug myself to endure this marriage, it's time to leave.


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## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

I've read all of the replies. Thank you for the much needed advice. I have downloaded the audiobook version. I plan to listen to it every night in bed as we go to sleep. Somehow the thought of doing so makes me smile. 

I promise to reread the suggestions as I'm listening to the book. I'll chose which ones I should act on forst, but finding ways to connect outside the home sounds like a good first step. 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's all you can do, cindy! One step at a time. I found that I would pick one thing to work on, as you say, and it would take me months, literally months, to work on my fears about it, do it, get consistent at it, and then have it feel normal.

And importantly, if you're not planning to move out or divorce, it's important to make these changes slowly and quietly. Like if you lay out his clothes for him every day, start NOT doing it, but do it one day with a good reason (had to take the kid to the doctor); then next week, find a day you can not do it again for another good reason. Get him use to taking care of himself, slowly, very slowly, so that his 'life' starts involving not having you jump every time he snaps his fingers. It's a very slow, excrutiating change to make, but it will pay off big time, as you start to gain a sense of independence.

Can you think of any examples like that that you could do?


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## MartinBeck (Jan 19, 2017)

OP - your problem is outside of my area of expertise, but listen to Turnera.

I think it's fundamentally about you putting on your big girl pants and learning how to say no.

The possible outcomes of you growing a pair and saying no range across the spectrum of possibilities anywhere from him learning how to be a better husband, to full on nasty divorce with lawyer bills and all the rest, but anything seems better than you continuing to just "go along to get along" and being scared and miserable until death do you part.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

Sorry to hear this... I'm sure it's tough. My friends husband travels a few times a month and I always thought how nice for her to get a break from spouse. Mine went a couple times and I thought it was truly a vacation for me as I didn't have to deal with his BS..

Find a therapist for yourself.. It's the best thing for you. You need to sort stuff out and a great therapist will help you. You need some support!! We have done MC together but I found it to be a waste of time- not productive at all. Therapists wanted to see us weekly but he said 'no way' for whatever reason. I feel individual therapy is more beneficial.

If you chose to divorce, you will be fine!! You are a tough woman practically raising kids all by yourself!! It's a very tough job to maintain a house! You have been married 25 years so my guess is you will have alimony for life, maybe even health insurance and the house because you have a disabled child at home. You can get a free consultation with a lawyer. It's just information for you to have and think about. 

I found a woman's group online thru meet-up.com.. I really didn't feel like getting 'out there' meeting new people BUT I really enjoy the group... Many have similar issues as mine-- we talk about different topics. And I always feel good after talking with them.

Vacations--I hear you on this.. Many times I have not wanted to go and just stay home. I would have to mentally prepare myself that this trip was about him and kids.. not really for me. Somehow I made it thru. I brought a book and when spouse took the kids I had some time to myself.


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## Jessica38 (Feb 28, 2017)

It doesn't matter what other people think- they aren't married to him.

The biggest issue I see is that you and your husband have fallen out of love. This isn't surprising, given that he travels weekly for work. Your MC is not likely able to restore the love in your marriage. 

I'd get the book His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters. You're both behaving in ways that destroys love in marriage (his stonewalling and criticism, your independent behavior). 

Your situation sounds very common in long-term marriages with kids. You're basically living separate lives and are no longer feeling in love. You've become roommates and luckily, you're both still in conflict mode instead of withdrawal. But if it goes on much longer, you're at risk of withdrawing entirely. 

As for the social media, it bothers your husband. For that reason alone, you should stop posting. In Lovebusters, it explains that doing something you know bothers your spouse is exhibiting independent behavior, which destroys marriages. It's similar to a husband who plans his weekend to go golfing with buddies without checking first to see how his wife wants to spend the weekend. It's not bad per se, but doing it knowing that your spouse doesn't like it means you are putting it before the marriage.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cc48kel said:


> Sorry to hear this... I'm sure it's tough. My friends husband travels a few times a month and I always thought how nice for her to get a break from spouse. Mine went a couple times and I thought it was truly a vacation for me as I didn't have to deal with his BS..


My FAVORITE days EVER are when H travels for work. It's the only time I can ever be myself. Inevitably, the first day after he's gone, I just veg out - sit and watch tv and eat junk food and surf the web - all the stuff HE doesn't want me to do and I'm too chicken to do around him.



> Find a therapist for yourself.. It's the best thing for for whatever reason. I feel individual therapy is more beneficial.


Both of my therapists wanted to see my H alone. The first one, I had to lie and say I needed him there to help ME with MY issues about my DAD. But when they got to the point of saying HE needed to come in alone, he cussed them out and stormed out. I didn't get him into therapy again for another 10 years. And only then because our daughter needed help. 

So he and I ended up going - after I gave him an ultimatum: go to MC or I move out - but he never did a single thing to work with it. I eventually gave up and went to MC to chew her out for not 'fixing' things with him. She just looked at me and said "T, you know this was never about him. It was always about you. What YOU accept in YOUR life. Until you can start changing THAT, your life will never get better." She was right. It wasn't until I started having boundaries, stopped kissing his ass, was wiling to endure his anger and manipulation, that things started to improve.



> I found a woman's group online thru meet-up.com.. I really didn't feel like getting 'out there' meeting new people BUT I really enjoy the group... Many have similar issues as mine-- we talk about different topics. And I always feel good after talking with them.


Like you, I'm sure, I have been isolated. No friends. No time for myself. No going on vacations without him. No nothing. Do you know what my latest therapist's biggest job for me was? It was to reconnect with my female friends. To go and DO things with them. She said it was imperative that I start 'being human' again and that requires being around other women. 

So I did. Started having dinners with friends, even my old high school friend. You would not BELIEVE how much of a psychological boost it is for an abused woman to have other females spend time with her. No idea.



> Vacations--I hear you on this.. Many times I have not wanted to go and just stay home. I would have to mentally prepare myself that this trip was about him and kids.. not really for me. Somehow I made it thru. I brought a book and when spouse took the kids I had some time to myself.


Between the time DD26 was 12 and 18, every year for Mother's Day and my birthday, I only asked my H for ONE thing: to take DD away and go away for at least a day, if not a whole weekend. So that I could see MY home as MINE. And not just the place where I do everything for everyone else. Where I cannot 'turn off.' 

All I wanted was to be able to wake up and do whatever I wanted, without worrying if it would piss him off, or he'd have a snide remark, or 'question' what I was choosing to do. In all those years, he only took her away ONE time, and only for half a day. But that half day was heaven!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Jessica38 said:


> It doesn't matter what other people think- they aren't married to him.
> 
> The biggest issue I see is that you and your husband have fallen out of love. This isn't surprising, given that he travels weekly for work. Your MC is not likely able to restore the love in your marriage.
> 
> ...


This is all quite accurate - UNLESS you are married to a controlling or abusive person. Such people are very aware how to manipulate the woman's need to make everyone happy.


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## cindyb1969 (Jun 7, 2017)

Turnera, I'm going to have to think about your question. I am not sure. I don't pick out his clothes. Once in awhile he asks me what I think about what he wears, but it's only when we are going somewhere and he wants to make a good impression. 

Cc48kel, when he is gone, it is far more peaceful and relaxing even if I'm taking care of the kids on my own and don't have free time. 

Jessica38, if I did only things that didn't bother him, I'd be with him 24/7 doing what he wanted unless he had something else to do. I don't post that much on social media. I'd say I'm probably average at most. Since I don't get much social interaction, it's what I have. Again...I don't air dirty laundry. I don't know why he cares except that maybe he's jealous that people express good things to me? That's just my feeling. It could be very incorrect. 

We had another session (previously scheduled) of MC today. He showed his true colors. Because of her reactions, I felt so much better. I felt heard. Nothing changed except he didn't make a follow up appointment. He's mad at my bringing up an argument we had. It seems he doesn't feel like my concerns are worthy of our time in there and got out his own list of what I had done wrong. 

One thing I will say - I listen and take the advice to heart. I'm not perfect and haven't done everything, but he's not doing any of it. In the middle of my explaining about how I do not feel heard, he expressed the ridiculousness of the argument. He pulled out his list. He interrupted to say he doesn't interrupt. She called him on it. I don't think it phased him! He even went as far as to use her suggestions "against me" when he inte. 

He went on to say how he took her advice but I didn't. I'm pretty sure she saw through that. 

Call me crazy, but to even feel that someone else saw what I did for a few minutes, even though she did not get through to him and he will be angry with me, made me feel heard. 

It also made me feel like he may never see his actions as I do. 

I'm still listening to the book, but I'm having to choose carefully when I listen so I can focus. So far I feel like there is a heavy focus on physical. It's not where we are. I think the closest he gets is acting a bit aggressively in my personal space (no physical contact) and poking me when I'm biting my nails, again...not painful but she did point it out to him. I'm hoping to see more of my life as I listen more. 


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

cindyb1969 said:


> Turnera, I'm going to have to think about your question. I am not sure. I don't pick out his clothes. Once in awhile he asks me what I think about what he wears, but it's only when we are going somewhere and he wants to make a good impression.


Don't take my suggestion too literally. I'm asking you to take a look at your relationship from way up in the air, you know, how you can see a whole forest from up high but down on the ground you only see a few trees. Look at your everyday experience. How many times a day do you think "should I do this? will he be mad?". How many decisions do you make cos you know if don't do that thing, you'll get pushback? Or you don't do something because you know you'll get pushback? Like if you're in charge of laundry and the only towels are in the dryer but you get home at 11pm and you really don't want to get them out and fold them and put them in the bathroom, but you do it anyway (even though he went straight to bed) because you know if he doesn't have towels ready in the morning, he b*tches at you? Those kinds of things are what I'm asking you to look at. HOW MUCH of your marriage is spent ensuring you don't get his pushback?



> Cc48kel, when he is gone, it is far more peaceful and relaxing even if I'm taking care of the kids on my own and don't have free time.


One of the key signs of abuse.



> Jessica38, if I did only things that didn't bother him, I'd be with him 24/7 doing what he wanted unless he had something else to do. I don't post that much on social media. I'd say I'm probably average at most. Since I don't get much social interaction, it's what I have. Again...I don't air dirty laundry. I don't know why he cares except that maybe he's jealous that people express good things to me?


Abusers isolate their partner so that nobody can give you any kind of feedback on what HE is doing. How many of your family and friends has he said 'I don't like you talking to them' or 'I don't really like her'? In the beginning, my H - who isn't a mean or bad person - would just give me grief if I went to visit a friend. So much, every time, so that I eventually stopped going to see them just so I didn't have to hear the grief when I got home. It became training through punishment, like zapping a rat for choosing the wrong button in a science experiment. Eventually, they learn to stop choosing the wrong button, to avoid the punishment. That's typically how an abuse victim becomes isolate. The abuser rarely says 'I forbid you to see your mother.' He just makes your life miserable if you DO. So that YOU make the choice. And it's so gradual that you don't realize you've done it. You FORGET that you used to have freedom, go where you wanted, see who you wanted. This new norm becomes 'reality.' 



> Nothing changed except he didn't make a follow up appointment. He's mad at my bringing up an argument we had. It seems he doesn't feel like my concerns are worthy of our time in there and got out his own list of what I had done wrong.


STRAIGHT out of Abuse 101 - use MC to manipulate YOU, make YOU feel ugly, unworthy, defective, and REFUSE to discuss what HE does wrong. Oh, and not set up another appointment if the MC dares to call him him out. 



> He pulled out his list. He interrupted to say he doesn't interrupt. She called him on it. I don't think it phased him! He even went as far as to use her suggestions "against me" when he interrupted.


Call her up and ask for a separate appointment just for yourself. PLEASE. She has seen him in action, she's well aware he's abusing you. She can help you find solutions. 



> even though she did not get through to him and* he will be angry with me*, made me feel heard.


More Abuse 101. You don't dare talk negatively about him to ANYONE. Even an MC. He will punish you for it so that you never do it again.



> It also made me feel like he may never see his actions as I do.


No, he won't. He can't. 



> I'm still listening to the book, but I'm having to choose carefully when I listen so I can focus. So far I feel like there is a heavy focus on physical. It's not where we are. I think the closest he gets is acting a bit aggressively in my personal space (no physical contact) and poking me when I'm biting my nails, again...not painful but she did point it out to him. I'm hoping to see more of my life as I listen more.


I'm glad you're getting through the book. There are two types of abuse: physical and emotional. But remember that if you've been emotionally abused for a long time, and you finally start to stand up for yourself, it's a fair bet that he will react negatively and swerve over into the physical realm. I remember I used to wish my H would be physically abusive so that I'd have a 'real reason' to leave him. 

But also remember that, physical or not, his need to control you is REAL. And the ways in which one abuses are pretty much the same either way: isolate you from anyone who would 'save' you from him; continue to put you down; dismiss your thoughts; keep changing the 'rules' for how to please him so that even if you did every single thing he said would make him happy, _it will never be enough_. He wants you spending your whole life TRYING to please him. That's how he keeps you on your toes, and that's how he keeps you from saying you deserve more - he makes you doubt yourself, wonder if you ARE a bad wife, make too many mistakes, are too 'sensitive.' 

Also remember that he most likely has NO IDEA he is doing this to you. He will justify everything. The only times I've ever seen such a man finally 'get it' is when they have hit absolute rock bottom, curled up in a ball sucking their thumbs, kind of rock bottom. Only then can they be receptive to the kind of therapy they'd need to remove whatever bullsh*t caused them to be this way in the first place.

PS: I forgot to add that, as you go on this journey of growth, expect him to ramp up the pressure to go back to what you were. Possibly even through violence. To that end, the first thing abused women are taught is to pack an emergency bag (money, clothes, medicine for a few days, ID, etc.) and keep it somewhere safe. Near the door, in a car, or at a friend's or neighbor's house. In the event he gets violent, leave immediately with that bag and go somewhere else.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Cindy I felt much the same way you did when I first read the book...That he really wasn't physically abusive so it didn't apply. But then I started paying more attention to how the author described conversations and what the abuser says and realized that I had the exact same reactions that he predicted. And only then was I able to see that my depression and feelings of worthlessness and being invisible were directly related to what he said to me and how he behaved towards me even though it was not physical. 

Turneras example above was spot on. I can remember doing exactly that type of thing. I would get up in the middle of the night to get coffee even though I don't drink coffee because I knew I would catch grief in the morning if he didn't have any. I knew that he would interpret it as a failure as a wife and mother.

Once when he was leaving to go somewhere I asked him to pick up some milk while he was out. I got literally screamed at for 20 minutes because I was obviously incompetent if I didn't know how much milk it would take to get through the week. I got myself defending myself by explaining that my 4 year old had spilt nearly a whole gallon that morning. That was when I realized how well he had me brainwashed....Throw a 4 year old under the bus to protect myself. I was pathetic.

I was eventually able to begin to see a method to his madness and respond accordingly. The last argument we had...He blamed me for getting into a shouting match with another parent at a soccer game be because I didn't stop him. No matter that I was on the opposite side of the field, I should have anticipated it and sat with him.

I pointed out that had I intervened he would be yelling at me for not supporting him. The look on his face made it clear he knew his gaslighting was no longer working . Then I laughed at him and told him it was not my fault he made an ass out of himself.

He left a week later.

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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Cindy, here is a good overview of the book. Note that in his descriptions of the types of abusers....there is no mention of physical abuse. Abuser are described in terms of their attitude, not their actions. A man is not an abuser because he hits a woman. He hits a woman because he is an abuser. 


https://www.ecok.edu/sites/default/...don-whitten-institute/Why Does He Do That.pdf


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