# Some different perspective please



## Ynot

For the past 24 years I have done the joint tax returns for my ex and I. When we were going thru the dissolution I was under the impression that there was some possibility of reconciliation mainly due to things that she said. Later I found out this was all part and parcel of her manipulation to get what she wanted. So during this time I gave her the first two pages of our tax returns. She was a W-2 employee, her income is reported and the taxes paid are on those pages. I was self employed and had various schedules and work sheets and deductions that I took. I figured since she wanted out, my business is none of her business. Which is why she only got the first two pages.
So today she finally opens the returns (which she desperately needed at the time - 3 months ago) and realizes it is just the first 2 pages. So she emails me after blowing me off several times when I wanted to talk, to say she needs the complete return with all of the schedules, work sheets etc. I told her no. 
I told her that until she can start acting civil and start treating me with the respect deserving of someone who was the father of her children and loyal spouse for 24 years she would get nothing more from me. 
The fact is that if she had any brains at all she would realize that she could get this info from the IRS. She has everything she needs to do that, but now that she needs them for some reason, she thinks it is ok to ask me for it, even though she couldn't be bothered when I needed some common decency from her. So am I wrong?


----------



## Heidi2005

What I've learned... Even though I am "right", I just further frustrate myself by engaging. My advice.. Give her what she is asking for and move on if it isn't harming you.


----------



## Cooper

If you were still married during any part of 2014 she needs your income statements, even if you are now divorced and filing separately. You are the easiest and quickest way to get that info. 

I agree with Heidi also, what is the point of engaging? I seriously ask you that question; are you hoping to punish her? Will her pain and discomfort or anger make things better for you? The divorce is done, stop acting foolish, all your doing is dragging out the drama.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Count me in as well.
If she can get it from the IRS, then why withhold it?
That just makes you look like you are digging your heels in for no good reason.

Take the high road.
Give her the information
Save your Energy for more worthwhile pursuits.


----------



## Pluto2

One other small point, our separation agreement required that we provide each other with complete tax returns for the year in which the divorce was granted. You might want to check your agreement, too.


----------



## Ynot

I completely understand what some of you are saying. But the fact is, is that she can get the info from the IRS. Hell she would have had them all by now if she hadn't waited 2 months to open the emails. I am thru being her dish rag to be ignored until she needs something. I guess I am looking at it as an opportunity to establish some boundaries. We have grown children together that will be getting married, having babies etc etc. Unless she wants to just pas in the drive way she is going to have start acting like it. I am thru letting her make me jump thru hoops for her. She decided to leave and she refused to cooperate when these things could have been more amiably resolved. Now she wants something and I should jump, but when I needed things she couldn't be bothered? Not happening anymore!


----------



## Pluto2

So just tell her additional information is available from the IRS, don't go all into how she wouldn't cooperate before and your done. Just short and sweet-get that info here-sort of communication. This gives her access to the information while making her go through some sort of effort. I do understand the boundaries issue you mentioned. I had to do the same with my ex.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> I completely understand what some of you are saying. But the fact is, is that she can get the info from the IRS. Hell she would have had them all by now if she hadn't waited 2 months to open the emails. I am thru being her dish rag to be ignored until she needs something. I guess I am looking at it as an opportunity to establish some boundaries. We have grown children together that will be getting married, having babies etc etc. Unless she wants to just pas in the drive way she is going to have start acting like it. I am thru letting her make me jump thru hoops for her. She decided to leave and she refused to cooperate when these things could have been more amiably resolved. Now she wants something and I should jump, but when I needed things she couldn't be bothered? Not happening anymore!


You are just punishing her for the "mistakes" you feel she made.
I get it.
I TOTALLY get it, but this attitude wont work because she CANT HEAR YOU. 

The best way to exact a seeming "revenge" is to live a fantastic life, be happy and learn to love yourself. Get tatoos, ride motorcycles, get a hot tub. LIVE!!!
Keep your boundaries, but dont expend so much energy on being angry.
Just establish them and stick with them.
Because you getting angry, defiant or just plain pissy doesnt do anything to her except enforce her ideas of why she left and leaves you with a robeful of negative feelings that you made yourself and then have to process.


----------



## BoyScout

I agree. You know how she's going to act toward you AND you also that the times where you'll be forced to interact are drawing to a close. Do what do what needs to be done and don't let it get under skin. Your time with her is almost done. Let it go.

I fully agree that the best 'revenge', a concept i really don't like in my particular situation, is to have her know that you've gotten on building a great life without her and she has no power to get you worked up. If she does enjoy manipulating you, then she gets off when you get upset. If you don't get upset, you don't give her the satisfaction.


----------



## Heidi2005

A recent example that occurred in my life. EX called me to inquire about D18 SSN #. We just completed a bunch of paperwork for his retirement from the military. The paperwork completed included D18 SSN. 

I could of said "dig out your paperwork and locate the information yourself". Instead, I sent the info to him. I don't like him... I don't like what he did to me and the family. However, I just don't care to continue with the drama either. I sent the info. He replied "thanks". The the entire situation lasted less than 2 minutes...


----------



## Ynot

The whole exchange has been enlightening to say the least. It is unbelievable how much you can discover about a persons lack of depth by asking them simple questions. Call it revenge, call it whatever you like, but I am not giving her my business information. I have no idea who she will give it to. She has all the info she needs to file her taxes or apply for a loan. She has her W-2s and every pertinent page relevant to her income. My business is my business. If she wants to call the IRS that is her problem and if she is too stupid to do so that is her problem as well. Her latest threat is to lawyer up. I hope she does and gets a hefty bill for them to tell her to email the IRS, Which is something that she claims to have already done - research. F'her! This is something she should have thought about back when I was begging her to come to the house and sort thru our 25 years of "life". She was too busy then, well I am too busy now!

BTW it took me about 10 seconds to find out all she had to do was contact the IRS, if she would rather play stupid out of convenience that is her problem. I don't have time to scan 50+pages of a tax return for her. Hell if she wasn't so stupid she would probably have already gotten them from the IRS as an email.


----------



## JustFree

Ynot said:


> The whole exchange has been enlightening to say the least. It is unbelievable how much you can discover about a persons lack of depth by asking them simple questions. Call it revenge, call it whatever you like, but I am not giving her my business information. I have no idea who she will give it to. She has all the info she needs to file her taxes or apply for a loan. She has her W-2s and every pertinent page relevant to her income. My business is my business. If she wants to call the IRS that is her problem and if she is too stupid to do so that is her problem as well. Her latest threat is to lawyer up. I hope she does and gets a hefty bill for them to tell her to email the IRS, Which is something that she claims to have already done - research. F'her! This is something she should have thought about back when I was begging her to come to the house and sort thru our 25 years of "life". She was too busy then, well I am too busy now!
> 
> BTW it took me about 10 seconds to find out all she had to do was contact the IRS, if she would rather play stupid out of convenience that is her problem. I don't have time to scan 50+pages of a tax return for her. Hell if she wasn't so stupid she would probably have already gotten them from the IRS as an email.


I know everyone wants to play the high road dance but my 2 cents is do whatever you legally have to and that's it. No Contact! No Drama!


----------



## Ynot

To clarify, I am not angry at the situation as much as I amused by it all. Far from wanting to punish her I am simply establishing my boundaries. I told her not to contact me until she was ready to talk like adults. She broke my rule for her own laziness because she just expects me to jump. It is true I could just give her what she wants OTOH she did not need to bother me. She chose to make contact I am enforcing my boundaries. 
Another gem of enlightenment was when my son contacted me because his mother had spent the whole day texting him at work. So after claiming to always take the high road with the kids she chose to drag him into it? If she had put 1% of the effort she put into avoiding the issues and creating more towards resolving her problem herself, she would already have what she needed. 
My boundaries are that I will never allow another person to use me. I will not be used. I will help and assist anyone willing to do the same for me. I understand this requires trust and that I may get burned by no reciprocity. However in her case her lies have already destroyed the trust I had. So until such time as she is willing to work towards regaining that trust she will get nothing from me.


----------



## Chuck71

My XW wanted me to file with her for the 2012 year. Granted she owed $2500

and I was getting back $1k. And she wondered why I refused to..... hmmm


----------



## toolforgrowth

I completely understand your desire to establish boundaries, and it's absolutely necessary post divorce. But I wouldn't have gone into the whole "I told her that until she can start acting civil and start treating me with the respect deserving of someone who was the father of her children and loyal spouse for 24 years she would get nothing more from me" thing. I probably would have kept it simple and said:

"I am not okay with sharing more information about my business than what is necessary for you to conduct your affairs. (Ba DUM tss) You are welcome to gather any other information you feel you may need from the IRS."

That's it. All other texts, emails, whatever she may have thrown at you, would have been ignored.

Boundary established, but without any perceived malice or obstinance.

EDIT: Okay, she _probably_ would have taken it that way anyway, but it wouldn't have been a demand for respect on your part. You can't demand respect from these kinds of people using words, you can only demand respect with actions.

I'll share a little story with you. My xWW and I have been split for over three years now. Last year, she asked me if I wanted to go with her to our 7 year old daughter's parent-teacher conference. I wanted to go, but not with her. I don't trust her one bit, as she's demonstrated in the past that she has no problem making me out to be the bad guy for any of her and our daughter's shortcomings (which, as we all know, is a load of hooey). She refused counseling and has tried to manipulate me many times post-divorce, and I will not place myself in any situation where she is liable to do so again.

My response was: "Thank you for the offer, but I prefer to go myself so I scheduled my own time."
Her: "I doubt she'll (daughter's teacher) schedule two conferences and I'd like to be there."
Me: "I spoke with her on the phone about it today and she was fine with two conferences. You are still able to schedule your own time."
Her: "OK. I know you'd prefer to never have to see me again but I doubt all teachers will be so accommodating in the future. You may have to get past your aversion to me for Daughter's sake at some point. I don't want to fight with you, I just think it's a little silly to hate me so much that we can't be in the same room for 20 minutes.. :/"

I ignored that and didn't respond. I clearly stated my preference without bashing her or ripping on her in any way. I even ensured that she was still able to have her own conference, and communicated that to her. She chose to argue about it, which I ignored.

This is what I mean by establishing boundaries effectively. I didn't say "You're cheater and I don't want to be around the likes of you," or "You disrespected me and are not deserving of my presence," or anything like that. Just a simple statement of my preference. The next time I saw her after that when she was dropping off our daughter, she was blushing beet red. She knew she came across like a total idiot. I didn't have to say a word, and I was smiling and pleasant when she dropped our daughter off.

I think she's still pi$$ed about that. lol But that's her choice. I established the boundary of "You are out of my life" a _long_ time ago, and she still continues to test it from time to time. And every time, she hits the same boundary.


----------



## Ynot

After having a week to ponder this issue here are some of my observations-
It would have been "easier" to have just given her what she wanted. However, I think that today instead of feeling the way I do, I would be feeling equally bad kicking myself because I had caved to her once again instead of standing my ground.

I reacted badly. I should not have engaged. I should have simply told her to contact the IRS.

I have no context to understand her actions after she decided to leave. I cannot understand how one can just flip the switch and turn off a 25 year relationship and then just expect the other to act as though the previous relationship had never existed (except for when she needs something from the past). However in light of this I have no interest in assisting her for whatever she needed my tax papers for.

She chose to separate from me. Then she needs to be separate from me. Asking me for things she can readily get elsewhere is not being separate. It would be one thing to cooperate with each other, but that has not been the case here. All she has done is taken and I am done giving. 

The only thing I have ever asked of her was to make an effort to meet me in the middle. She has refused. So she once again has made her choice and it is on her to live with the consequences. Just as I have had to live with the consequences.


----------



## Chuck71

Any time you think about engaging with her........ stand still

get to 50k, observe


----------



## Cooper

Ynot said:


> After having a week to ponder this issue here are some of my observations-
> It would have been "easier" to have just given her what she wanted. However, I think that today instead of feeling the way I do, I would be feeling equally bad kicking myself because I had caved to her once again instead of standing my ground.
> 
> I reacted badly. I should not have engaged. I should have simply told her to contact the IRS.
> 
> I have no context to understand her actions after she decided to leave. I cannot understand how one can just flip the switch and turn off a 25 year relationship and then just expect the other to act as though the previous relationship had never existed (except for when she needs something from the past). However in light of this I have no interest in assisting her for whatever she needed my tax papers for.
> 
> She chose to separate from me. Then she needs to be separate from me. Asking me for things she can readily get elsewhere is not being separate. It would be one thing to cooperate with each other, but that has not been the case here. All she has done is taken and I am done giving.
> 
> The only thing I have ever asked of her was to make an effort to meet me in the middle. She has refused. So she once again has made her choice and it is on her to live with the consequences. Just as I have had to live with the consequences.


 This is a very simple boundary to establish, here's the very words I used with my ex wife; "You are no longer my responsibility" Like your ex mine thought life would continue as normal, any time she needed help or advice she thought she could turn to me, I closed that door very quickly.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Ynot said:


> After having a week to ponder this issue here are some of my observations-
> It would have been "easier" to have just given her what she wanted. However, I think that today instead of feeling the way I do, I would be feeling equally bad kicking myself because I had caved to her once again instead of standing my ground.
> 
> I reacted badly. I should not have engaged. I should have simply told her to contact the IRS.
> 
> I have no context to understand her actions after she decided to leave. I cannot understand how one can just flip the switch and turn off a 25 year relationship and then just expect the other to act as though the previous relationship had never existed (except for when she needs something from the past). However in light of this I have no interest in assisting her for whatever she needed my tax papers for.
> 
> She chose to separate from me. Then she needs to be separate from me. Asking me for things she can readily get elsewhere is not being separate. It would be one thing to cooperate with each other, but that has not been the case here. All she has done is taken and I am done giving.
> 
> *The only thing I have ever asked of her was to make an effort to meet me in the middle. She has refused. So she once again has made her choice and it is on her to live with the consequences. Just as I have had to live with the consequences*.


The bold part says it all for me. You seem bent on holding up some mirror of truth to her face.
But the fact is she doesnt have eyes!

She is wrapped up in her own little world and doesnt empathize with what she did to you.
You may have to settle with the fact that she NEVER WILL.
It could be years before she wakes up.

Let me introduce The 3 Mantra's of SamuraiJack...

1. If it's not about the kids I dont need to talk about it.
2. I'm sorry thats not my problem now.
3. I'm sure you will find someone else to help you.

Practice these and wield them with delicacy. Do not try to hurt with them but use them to reinforce (gently...) your boundaries.
Used in combination, these will deflect 99% of the crap she throws at you.

Stop trying to get her to see things from your side and defend yourself from her silliness by not engaging with it. 
You KNOW she is a silly twonk and her actions are getting under your skin...
because you let them...
...and thats just the way she likes it.


----------



## SamuraiJack

Cooper said:


> This is a very simple boundary to establish, here's the very words I used with my ex wife; "You are no longer my responsibility" Like your ex mine thought life would continue as normal, any time she needed help or advice she thought she could turn to me, I closed that door very quickly.


Amazing how they can expect that. Life will just go on unhindered and you can continue to be their handyman, mechanic and job support? 
Hahahahahahaaaaa.

A friend told his ex wife when she asked for help: "The last d1ck in you is attached to the person you should be asking this question."

I have to admit, I have worked in prisons...and I blushed.
:smthumbup:


----------



## Ynot

Eve more amazing to me was how she tried to involve my son in it. I was going to be leaving on vacation with him on Friday, She started her efforts on Thursday and continued into the day Friday. I was going to get packed during the day but got sidetracked by her constant emails. At one point I asked her to please not involve the kids. She said she had more decency than me and would never do that. 

I left two hours later than planned. My son calls me to find out why I left so late. I told him I had issues at work that kept me busy. He asked what kind. I just told him I was getting a lot of emails. He asked me what that was about, did I want to tell him about it? He obviously knew, so I told him his mother had been pestering me for something and I was not giving them to her. Apparently she had spent the whole day texting him at work.

I thought it was quite the coincident that the day before I was leaving for vacation with my son, that she suddenly realized she didn't have something she could have gotten months ago had she been more cooperative. Too bad, so sad!


----------



## Chuck71

When people are miserable.... they sure love company.

I know it bothers you..... but just imagine if you were her... 

walking through life aimlessly


----------

