# Sexless relationship?



## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Hi!
Thank you for reading in advanced as this has turned out to be a long one. I'm feeling really hopeless at the moment, beating myself up and my inner voice is being pretty horrible to me.

I've tried to broach similar issues here before and been shot down by people as being whiney or just told to get a divorce. I have no intention (unless something drastic is uncovered) of getting a divorce and would like genuine help on communicating with my husband to improve our marriage.

So, background: I've been married just over a year, together in total for about 5 years. We have a good strong relationship everywhere outside of the bedroom, we are a team and love each other very much. I'm 27 he is 36. I'm 3 months pregnant but that is not the issue.

We were never the most active sexually but in the beginning we would have sex most times we saw each other about once a week. He is not the most affectionate of guys. I get a goodnight kiss and that is it really. We don't smooch or cuddle anymore and we don't even really say 'I love you' unless it's sarcastic or jokey.

When we got engaged I noticed a distinct change in his attitude. Almost as if he didn't need to try anymore, this is just in the bedroom not in our wider relationship. It got to a point where this was bothering me enough to try and talk about it. He shut me down saying I was being silly and that 'married couples don't have much sex anyway' I pointed out that we weren't even married yet. He said he would try harder.

Things went on. We would go a couple of months with no sex because I was waiting for him to appear interested. When we got married he even made the off-hand comment of 'well, you'll be wanting sex on our wedding night won't you?' This hurt. We didn't because he had been drinking and I told myself it was his worry of performing that made him say that. We didn't actually have sex until the end of our honeymoon nearly 2 weeks later.

We had a big talk not long after as it was still bothering me. He suggested that I start inciating more and just go for it. So I did. But then started the constant internal battle for me of do I go for it or will I be turned down, which I was, often.

This all came to a head again about 6 months ago when we had decided to try for a baby. I came off my contraception pill when we got married as it was his idea to try for a baby, something I was very happy about. But we were having sex abour once a month and not at the right time, so I commented that we would be hard pressed to have a baby if this was us trying. I even started thinking that he wanted me pregnant just so he didn't have to bother with sex for me anymore, something I voiced to him and he denied and was very apologetic about.

When we do have sex I feel it is very one sided. I have to first get a chance to even try, which normally starts by him putting his arm out for a cuddle. It starts with me rubbing his chest and then moving down to stimulate him, he never seems to have an erection for me it is something I have to work at. I rarely get touched anywhere. We then go onto PIV and that is it. I do normally orgasm from this but I'm always left feeling that there is no passion in it. Just an act he needs to get done.

I've heard him a couple of times having a wank in the shower. This really hurts. Because I have never denied him; he just doesn't bother asking or trying.

So. Now I am 3 months pregnant and as I suspected, since those lines appeared he has been even less interested, not giving me an opening to even try. Then the other night I got the arm opening. So here we go. He seemed so disinterested I nearly stopped half way through. After he came out with 'well that was a pleasant treat', I didn't know what to make of that as I thought the arm was a signal for me to try. I'm now feeling even more stupid looking back on all the previous times. My glimmer of hope was that he had wanted it but was just waiting for me. Now I think not.

So, moving forward. I need to find a way of having this conversation with him where he won't avoid or shirk off my feelings but acknowledge them and open up to me about how he feels.

So I've written a note on my phone. I don't know whether to read it to him or send it to him or just use it as a prompt.

I'm after constructive advice on how I word things. I don't want to have a go at him or accuse so he gets defensive. Just let him know how I'm feeling so that he can respond in some way. I want to fix this part of our relationship but I don't think he even views it as broken.

As I said before, cutting and running is not an option so please save the 'just leave him now' comments. Thank you!


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

This is the note I have written:

We need to talk about sex.

It's not comfortable and I'm not very food at talking, but you need to be patient so I can say what I need to as it is something that has been bothering me for years and it will continue to bother me unless we talk. Properly.

I've tried to talk about it before but you either shut down or tell me I'm being silly so I feel silly and don't manage to put into words how I actually feel. And it goes on.

I feel that you are not interested in having sex with me. I don't know what the reasons are so my head fills them in for me and they are getting meaner towards me and it makes me feel like crap.

I can not remember the last time that you wanted sex with me. Last time we had a big talk about this you told me to inciate more rather than wait for you. Thus it turnes into a one sided game of me trying to guess if you would actually want to or whether I would get turned down. It was then always me. 

You don't seem to ever want to touch me and it makes me feel undesired and then wonder what the point is if you aren't interested. Then we go weeks, months without having sex and that depresses me to a point where I finally have the courage to try again and then the cycle continues.

When I do feel brave enough to make a joke about it, you reply with a flippant comment such as the 'well you got fat' (and I know that you meant pregnant but your unfiltered thought speaks volumes to my ever self-deprecating self concious) or 'you've been tired' turning it back on me. When it isn't me, it's you.

It all started when we got engaged. Whether that was a mental switch in your head that you didn't need to bother anymore or something else I don't know. When we spoke about it then your opinion was 'well married couples don't have sex often' we weren't married and I wasn't a part of every other couple. Then I got a flippant 'well YOU will be wanting sex on our wedding night' I was hoping it would be a two way thing and this just emphasised your lack of interest. Then we spoke about things and I was proud with my honesty for saying that I thought you only wanted me pregnant so you wouldn't have to have sex with me anymore, you assured me that wouldn't happen, but this seems to be another conversation that I have made up in my head and you don't remember. I've not been holding onto these things to use against you, they stuck with me because this is something that bothers me. A lot.

I know that you have 'man time' on your own on the shower-i've heard it- and that wouldn't bother me. But it just adds to the mental soup of 'so he would rather sneak a wank than have sex with his wife' leading me back to saying horrible things about myself.

Some of the time my brain can be sensible, it remembers the 'mantras' That you so readily mock me for and thinks up sensible replies to my self doubt. Other times it remuniates on my body, he can't stand to touch me, he doesn't actually love me anymore, I'm just horrible and fat and that is how he sees me, maybe he would be more ineterested in me if I looked like those girls on the tele, what is wrong with me, my sex is just **** so he doesn't want it anyway, or - the paranoia's favourite- he's having sex with someone else so won't bother with me. 
I was thrilled when you asked if we could try 69- it felt like you had an interest. But that soon disappeared. I asked if you wanted go try anything else and you said some bits, I even then went and bought something to wear and you put a date in the calendar. But that was just another drunkern conversation you didn't remember, so in my head didn't mean, you didn't know what the date was in the calendar was for so I deleted it as I felt silly explaining a decision you had made. Then when I finally did show you what I had bought, you had no interest in it anyway. I feel that you aren't or wouldn't be interested if I did serve it up on a plate and this has knocked my confidence enormously. I'm willing to try anything you would like- you just need to tell me. Maybe you feel you can't tell me? I know talking about exes is off limits, but maybe if we had in the beginning you would know that I am more willing to be open to new things. 

Now some of what I think may be true- I won't know until you are honest with me and tell me what goes through your head.
Because as much as my brain beats me up, it can't read your mind.


And I need honesty. Because we've had this talk several times before where you have brushed off my feelings as being silly and ridiculous and not actually given me any answers. It doesn't work and I don't want to continue living like this. I used to be a confident person in myself. Now, when it comes to our relationship I am second best and can't even give weight to my own opinions or feelings. 

I need to know, even if it hurts.


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Hello Mrs Doubt.

I noticed you said you wouldn't divorce, unless something drastic was uncovered.

Well, this seems quite drastic to me.
You have pretty much uncovered that your husband is not interested in sex with you.

I haven't read your previous posts, so sorry if this has already been asked, but has your husband had his T levels checked?

But, you did say he put less effort in after putting a ring on your finger.
You may have to take your rings off during pregnancy anyway, but I wonder if he would even notice if you weren't wearing them, or even bothered by that. Yes I know it might seem a childish move to some.

It's good to get your thoughts down on paper.
Your letter may be too long though, and could do with condensing a little.

How would you feel if after all that effort of opening up and writing to him, he doesn't respond?

I'm only asking because I've done the writing part and been met with silence, which hurts a lot.

So make sure, somehow, that he has to respond to you.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

EveningThoughts said:


> Hello Mrs Doubt.
> 
> I noticed you said you wouldn't divorce, unless something drastic was uncovered.
> 
> ...


Hi, thank you for taking the time to respond.

He hasn't had his T levels checked, I don't know if he would. This is one thing I am hoping we can open up with a conversation.

I'm aware it's a long letter, I haven't edited it all yet. I was thinking of reading it to him rather than sending it so that I could gauge his immediate reaction. I guess I've tried beforw and had very little response from him, which is why I would like to push more this time.

I really feel I need to have this conversation with him as it is slowly eating me up inside. And I don't think he even thinks about it. I don't want to guilt him into anything but I do feel it is an avenue of communication that we need to open. I'm just unsure how. I'm not a cety assertive person and am aware this is my own issue, but I need the guidance of what I've written so I don't avoid talking about it myself....I hope that makes sense?


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## Beat (Jul 21, 2019)

Firstly, thumbs up for gathering the courage to post this up here and asking for advise.

Sounds like your husband is not bothered or concern at all by your complains that your marriage to him lacks sex which makes me wonder why is it that he does not make an effort in joining you to fix this issue. 

Does he work odd hours or he works normal hours and every evening he is at home?

So say for example you coming from the bathroom and you walk into the bedroom naked to lotion yourself and he is there in bed, does he feel, do or say something like *baby I like your boobs* or he maybe he does not even look at you?

Does he know that SEX to you is important and that you are bothered by the lack of it?

Does he have any health or weight issues at all.
Something is seriously wrong, how is not possible that he only wants to have sex with you once a month and yet finds comfort in taking care of himself while taking a shower.

Have you walked into the shower to join him while he is in there and what was his reaction ?

Sent from my SM-A500F using Tapatalk


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## anonfrank (Apr 18, 2013)

Honest conversation is the way to go. Do it early on a weekend day when neither of you is working, so you are both fresh. Use your letter as a crib sheet. Coming from the male standpoint, here: be direct, do not hint, he won’t understand that. Your letter’s too long, just get to the point, and, again crib it for your talk with him.

Possibilities are: depressed, fatigued from work, undiagnosed medical problem, low sex drive constitutionally, not into you, and of course cheating.

If it’s the latter two, then you have a decision to make about how you want to live your life. Also, if he doesn’t respond with reasoning, or does not wish to improve himself in the manner you are hoping, you also have a decision to make.

You may want to consider couples’ therapy, and bring it up to him, but if doesn’t want to go, then, again, you have a decision only you can make.

One last thing. Does he have an erection on awakening in the morning ie “morning wood”? You’re his wife, you can feel for it, it’s obvious. If he doesn’t, it may indicate a physical/medical problem. Even depressed men generally can’t suppress nature and will have a morning erection (there’s always a rare exception).


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Here are a few thoughts:

1. Good to try talking. Once or twice. Please be aware that many couples never get comfortable talking about sex. Many LDs will do anything to avoid talking openly about their view of sex.

2. IF you have tried to have "the talk" more than twice and been consistently ignored or pushed away, stop trying to have the talk. He doesn't want it and it won't work. If you have asked more than once and he hasn't responded positively, then stop asking. He knows there is a problem. He knows you want to talk about it. And he doesn't want to talk. That means he doesn't care if you are in pain, so long as your pain does not inconvenience him. Further requests to talk will only show him that you are weak, and that you won't do anything about being in pain.

3. At this point, only action will make an impact on him. I am sorry to hear you are pregnant with his child. That makes it much more complicated. Not clear to me what action you are willing to take. If you won't divorce, what are you willing to do to show him that this is a serious issue for you? If the answer is "pretty much nothing", then you have just proved (to him) that this need of your and this pain of yours are not very strong. SO he will feel no guilt about continuing to deprive you. After all, in his eyes, if it were truly a big deal to you, then you would be willing to take action. If you aren't willing to take action, then by definition it is no big deal.

That is quite likely exactly how he justifies to himself refusing to discuss the issue with you. You can try one more time to say something like "this is important to me, when we don't have a loving, affectionate, and sexual physical side to our relationship my love for you declines. We now have a child together and I don't want my love for you to wither away and die. What are you willing to do to help with the physical side so my love for you remains strong?" That is as long as your message should be. Longer only makes you seem weak and unable to clarify what is bothering you.

Good luck. This is no fun and not easy. Tough to have to address it while pregnant. I wish you an easy pregnancy and delivery and much joy with your child.


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## Oldtimer (May 25, 2018)

“Other times it remuniates on my body, he can't stand to touch me, he doesn't actually love me anymore, I'm just horrible and fat and that is how he sees me”.

Mrs Doubt, if I may offer my humble opinion. The only time I see love mentioned is in the above quote. Might I just add to your letter,

“ I love you immensely and I hope you feel the same. We should be in our honeymoon period and our bonding sexually is paramount in the beginning of our lives together. We have been blessed with bringing a child into this world together to prove that love.

In ending, I might add that you feel sexually frustrated and need him and him alone. Or something to that effect.

As well as one poster stated, have him check his T levels and his mental state regarding sex. He may be wanking in the shower, but that doesn’t mean he may not be suffering from some form of ED.

This is just my opinion, take what you want from it and disregard the rest.

I wish you well.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Honestly, the reason you keep getting the same advice is because it is the RIGHT advice.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

He's clearly not interested in sex, in general, or sex with you, in particular. You knew this when you married him. You knew this when you deliberately got pregnant by him. This is who he is. Your choices are to have endless talks while, at best, getting some small change for a short time, accept a sexless marriage, or leave. Since you refuse to leave, you're pretty much stuck exactly where you are unless you decide to make a change. Like, you know, getting a divorce from your friendsband and finding a man who actually desires you as a true mate, sex and all.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Beat said:


> Firstly, thumbs up for gathering the courage to post this up here and asking for advise.
> 
> Sounds like your husband is not bothered or concern at all by your complains that your marriage to him lacks sex which makes me wonder why is it that he does not make an effort in joining you to fix this issue.
> 
> ...


Thank you.

No he works from home so is there all the time-sometimes rarely he has to go away to work.

He doesn't seem interested much anymore at all. Before he mighr have made a comment about my bottom or if my boobs were out, but now I could prance around naked and I don't think he would get excited.

I wouldn't have the confidence to join him in the shower at this point. He showers with the door closed and I'd be too afraid of getting a negative reaction from him. A further knock to my self confidence.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

[/QUOTE]

One last thing. Does he have an erection on awakening in the morning ie “morning wood”? You’re his wife, you can feel for it, it’s obvious. If he doesn’t, it may indicate a physical/medical problem. Even depressed men generally can’t suppress nature and will have a morning erection (there’s always a rare exception).[/QUOTE]

It sounds stupid but I don't know. We don't always wake up at the same time. During the week I'm out of the house before his alarm goes off, at weekends he normally wakes before me and watches TV on his phone. I don't feel that I can just 'feel for it' as he would shy away.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> Honestly, the reason you keep getting the same advice is because it is the RIGHT advice.


Here’s some different advice. Let your husband know that if he’s not going to satisfy you, you’ll find someone else who will. Ask him to agree that you can have lover(s) on the side. Be sure to keep both men happy, though.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/slate....-marriage-sex-advice-prioritizing-husband.amp


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Oldtimer said:


> “Other times it remuniates on my body, he can't stand to touch me, he doesn't actually love me anymore, I'm just horrible and fat and that is how he sees me”.
> 
> Mrs Doubt, if I may offer my humble opinion. The only time I see love mentioned is in the above quote. Might I just add to your letter,
> 
> ...


Thank you, this has been really helpful advice.

I do plan on sitting down and talking to him. I guess I am scared of all of the above. That he won't want to change or genuinely sees no problem.

I shall fill you all in when bravery hits.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Thank you, this has been really helpful advice.
> 
> I do plan on sitting down and talking to him. *I guess I am scared of all of the above. That he won't want to change or genuinely sees no problem.*
> 
> I shall fill you all in when bravery hits.


I can empathize with this. It is hard enough when you think he "can't" have sex. Finding out it's that he "won't" have sex is devastating. I remember when I realized that it was "won't" instead of "can't." It was a painful realization, but it opened my eyes to what my life was truly going to be like if I did not take action.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

OP.
Take a look at asexuality.org It still isn't talked about much, but there are both men and women who have minimal or no sex drive. This can lead to real misery in marriage 

Since your husband has never been very interested in sex, I don't think its likely a medical issue and its unlikely to change. 

Wanking in the shower may not mean much. Some asexuals still need "relief", but since they have no interest in sex, they just want to get that relief the simplest way possible. 

You need to go into this with open eyes and you are left with the usual 3 wretched choices: Leave, cheat, live like a nun. They are awful choices.

I really wish there was more visibility to this issue. Women especially can be trapped because they date what they think is a "wonderful kind guy who doesn't push them for sex" only to discover later that their guy doesn't want sex. at all. 

I've been in a badly sexually mismatched marriage for 30 years. The only thing that has helped is my understanding that it won't change, that its not my fault and to just be happy with what intimacy I do get. The worst was years of trying to find ways to make it "better". 

I


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> I know that you have 'man time' on your own on the shower-i've heard it- and that wouldn't bother me. But it just adds to the mental soup of 'so he would rather sneak a wank than have sex with his wife' leading me back to saying horrible things about myself.


This has to stop. Even if he prefers masturbation to sex with you, this has to stop. He needs to perform his husbandly duties.

When you met, did he have consistent sex partners before you? A guy can get used to the shower as being his sex life. He needs to un-train himself.

Do you have a TV in the bedroom? Maybe he can watch his favorite porn videos while in missionary/doggy. Then cut down the porn.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

personofinterest said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you, this has been really helpful advice.
> ...


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> I've been in a badly sexually mismatched marriage for 30 years. The only thing that has helped is my understanding that it won't change, that its not my fault and to just be happy with what intimacy I do get. The worst was years of trying to find ways to make it "better".


These mismatches are so common. I think people need to talk about sexual expectations, frequencies, fetishes, etc before marriage. I realize this is hard to do. But sex seems to be a low priority for most in a marriage partner. It needs to be higher. You can’t just assume you’ll have at least mediocre sex once a week. It could be much worse.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

But does she want "husbandly duties", or does she want a passionate lover? They are not the same thing. 



CraigBesuden said:


> snip
> 
> When you met, did he have consistent sex partners before you? A guy can get used to the shower as being his sex life. He needs to un-train himself.
> 
> ...


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> You need to go into this with open eyes and you are left with the usual 3 wretched choices: Leave, cheat, live like a nun. They are awful choices.


Or an open marriage. He can wank in the shower while she goes on Tinder and finds guy(s) with a hot body, large tool, great bedroom skills, and will be discrete and respect her marriage. It’s not cheating if you have permission.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

I do constantly come back to the fact that maybe I'm being selfish. We have a wonderful relationship in every other way, he couldn't be more excited about being a father. 

The only way to know is talking to him I guess. Any advice on how to have this conversation in a way that is not a threat to him and doesn't cause him to get defensive?


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

i suspect that he is very self conscious about sex. my guess is that he knows, or thinks he's not good at it. in your glory days, early in your relationship, when you
were having more sex (once a week), how was it?

it sounds like you enjoy the sex even if it's not mind blowing or less than perfect. you just want him to be into you and be intimate regularly. am i wrong or right?
that's not asking a whole lot btw.

i'm willing to guess that if he somehow changed his view, that he WAS good or decent, he would initiate more often and feel more like a man.
right now, he is putting up a big defensive and dishonest front; "married couples don't have sex that often anyways....." absolute bull cocky!!!
many people married for decades still go at it like jack rabbits, believe me, and they are some of the best marriages.

now let me close by giving my personal perspective. i was coming out of a long term bad sexless relationship and getting ready to get re-married to a gal i knew was going to want lots of sex.
i was a bit afraid. can i do this? can i please her? can this old pecker keep up with what she wants? 
but you know what i told myself? "dude, if your going to get married, you better be prepared to be intimate often, because that's what good marriages are all about. either that dude, or don't get married!!"
everything i was taught about marriage told me that marriage is largely about intimacy, or should be. my own parents, even when they were fighting or angry, would still be intimate.

somehow, he has to gain more confidence.

i will leave that to others wiser than me on how to boost his confidence.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I do constantly come back to the fact that maybe I'm being selfish. We have a wonderful relationship in every other way, he couldn't be more excited about being a father.


If he’s satisfied with the shower, maybe you can be happy with a Womanizer, a Rabbit, and a Magic Wand. I wouldn’t be shy about using them while he’s trying to sleep, either. Moan loudly.

Wanting mutually-satisfying sex with your spouse doesn’t make you selfish. It also isn’t expecting too much.



> The only way to know is talking to him I guess. Any advice on how to have this conversation in a way that is not a threat to him and doesn't cause him to get defensive?


A marital counselor. You need a neutral third-party to listen to both of you.

If it’s the two of you, I guess you need to just say it plainly. “I know you are wanking in the shower. Is it ED? A fetish you’re thinking about? You may think that you’re protecting my feelings by not being forthright, but the truth can’t possibly be as bad as how this makes me feel.”

Even if he has ED, that’s no excuse. He can still perform oral on you. There are toys he can use as well. He should care whether or not his wife is happy. If you feel there is a problem, then there is a problem.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

No, you are not selfish. Its normal and reasonable to expect an active good sex life with the person you love. It is something generally assumed in marriage unless otherwise discussed. 




Mrs Doubt said:


> I do constantly come back to the fact that maybe I'm being selfish. We have a wonderful relationship in every other way, he couldn't be more excited about being a father.
> 
> The only way to know is talking to him I guess. Any advice on how to have this conversation in a way that is not a threat to him and doesn't cause him to get defensive?


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

jorgegene said:


> i suspect that he is very self conscious about sex. my guess is that he knows, or thinks he's not good at it. in your glory days, early in your relationship, when you
> were having more sex (once a week), how was it?
> 
> it sounds like you enjoy the sex even if it's not mind blowing or less than perfect. you just want him to be into you and be intimate regularly. am i wrong or right?
> ...


This rings true to me. I know that I can not fix this by being aggressive or manipulative and hope that our chat will make him feel better as well as me.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> If he’s satisfied with the shower, maybe you can be happy with a Womanizer, a Rabbit, and a Magic Wand. I wouldn’t be shy about using them while he’s trying to sleep, either. Moan loudly.


That's rather passive aggressive, and I have recommended it to other posters in the past. :grin2:

But rather than when he is sleeping Mrs D should ask him for some naked time with him. He need only provide eye candy and maybe cuddles, Mrs D and toy can take care of the rest. It would be very telling if he says no, I mean it's only 15 to 30 minutes (I'm assuming that's enough) and it's not asking for any major effort on his part, basically just some nudity.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I do constantly come back to the fact that maybe I'm being selfish. We have a wonderful relationship in every other way, he couldn't be more excited about being a father.
> 
> The only way to know is talking to him I guess. Any advice on how to have this conversation in a way that is not a threat to him and doesn't cause him to get defensive?


It is not selfish to want to have a healthy sex life with the man who made vows to love and cherish you. NEVER let anyone tell you that.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Hi!
> Thank you for reading in advanced as this has turned out to be a long one. I'm feeling really hopeless at the moment, beating myself up and my inner voice is being pretty horrible to me.
> 
> I've tried to broach similar issues here before and been shot down by people as being whiney or just told to get a divorce. I have no intention (unless something drastic is uncovered) of getting a divorce and would like genuine help on communicating with my husband to improve our marriage.
> ...


He doesn't.



Mrs Doubt said:


> Hi!
> Thank you for reading in advanced as this has turned out to be a long one. I'm feeling really hopeless at the moment, beating myself up and my inner voice is being pretty horrible to me.
> 
> I've tried to broach similar issues here before and been shot down by people as being whiney or just told to get a divorce. I have no intention (unless something drastic is uncovered) of getting a divorce and would like genuine help on communicating with my husband to improve our marriage.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Mrs Doubt said:


> When we got married he even made the off-hand comment of 'well, you'll be wanting sex on our wedding night won't you?'


I didn't read the letter you intend to send because there is no point in sending him a letter, therefore no point in me reading it. I don't know how many times you told us in your original post that you tried to talk to him. So, I don't know how many MORE time you plan on thinking that talking him is going to accomplish anything. 

That method so far has been ineffective, so you have effectually accomplished one of two things: either you've gotten good at chasing your own tail, or you enjoy practicing the very definition of insanity. I invite you to decide which one it is.

In that same vein, it's a well-known phenomenon that men don't respond to words. Men respond to actions. So you not only have to give him a reason to respond (your concerns), but you have to give him something to respond to (your actions). When you limit your willingness to take action, you also limit your likelihood of response. By taking divorce off the table, you not only sentence yourself to this life, but you will never know how he feels. If divorce were even a possibility, you would find out pretty quickly if and how much you and the marriage matter to him. 

Everybody's telling you to talk to him, which is pointless for another reason, which is that I'm not fond of the "just do it" mentality. Talking to him and telling him how you feel only addresses how you feel as if he's supposed to "just do it" because that's how you feel and it's what you want him to do. I don't believe in that. You spent a great deal of your original post telling us how much of a problem this is and for how long, but you married him anyway. Along with everything else, what I quoted from you above was especially your signal that there is and will remain a problem. But you married him anyway. And now you spend your marriage trying to make him "just do it". It's ridiculous. He doesn't want to do it, so you take your cues and decide your life from there.

I do, however, think he needs to find some answers. Is he asexual? Is he attracted to women? Is he gay? Is he attracted to other women but not you? Is his testosterone too low? Is he scared for some reason? Does he suffer good girl syndrome? He needs to address why he is averse to sexual relations, and it would be nice for you to have those answers too. You know what you're dealing with. I'm sure it would be nice to know why you're dealing with it. So make him an appointment with both a medical doctor to have his levels checked and an appointment with a therapist. You can make an appointment with a marriage counselor too because the two of you need to learn how to communicate effectively.

I mentioned the "good girl syndrome" which isn't actually a clinical term. It's just a term I coined for lack of a better one or actual one. But what it means is sometimes there are guys who have the notion (due to social and cultural cues) that it's okay to have their fun with the easy girls, the good time girls, but when it comes time to settle down, they should pick a good girl to marry. Once selecting that "good girl" and realize she enjoys sex and wants it from him (which he views as her demanding from him), then he's turned off and prefers not to have to perform because he sees her desire as ruining the "good girl" image he had of her.

I know you want to get your feelings out. That is normal of most of us. But you're going to have to figure out another way to get through to him because, again, men only respond to actions. In making the doc appointments I mentioned are examples of taking action. Tell him you insist he go to those appointments for the sake of your relationship.

If he finds out his T levels are the problem, the doc will give him some injections to help with that. If that isn't the problem and after he's able to express through therapy what his aversions are and/or the reasons behind them, there are still things you can do to help him with his libido but only if he's willing. Post afterward for some of those suggestions.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Star, maybe she just is not satisfying him and she should figure out how to please him better. Perhaps it is all her fault and if she wants to fix it, she should bang him better, right?


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Tasorundo said:


> Star, maybe she just is not satisfying him and she should figure out how to please him better. Perhaps it is all her fault and if she wants to fix it, she should bang him better, right?


:lol: Mrs Doubt, Tasorundo is not serious about this, he's just zinging StarFires.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> Star, maybe she just is not satisfying him and she should figure out how to please him better. Perhaps it is all her fault and if she wants to fix it, she should bang him better, right?


Yes, because a hurting woman's thread is EXACTLY the place for this....

How sad


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I guess it only belongs in sad guys threads?

Mrs Doubt, I think you should encourage him to get his T level checked. I don't know that another talk is going to be productive.

I have a good friend that was in a similar situation, tried for years, talked for years and nothing ever changed. She eventually contacted a lawyer, told him on Monday that unless he took this seriously, she was filing on Tuesday. She loved him very much and he was her best friend, but feeling ugly, unwanted, and undesired was tearing her apart everyday.

He took that as a real wakeup call, and things have really turned around. He started T therapy, he started exercising and taking care of himself more. She was also his best friend and he never really understood the depth to which he was hurting her.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> Star, maybe she just is not satisfying him and she should figure out how to please him better. Perhaps it is all her fault and if she wants to fix it, she should bang him better, right?


It's so funny to me that you know you won't be banned for hijacking this thread and baiting me, but I will be banned because you hijacked and baited me and will be accused of being the one who did the baiting. Hilarious! Keep on having your fun.

I don't make any difference between men and women. I speak the truth to both without regard to gender. Too bad you get your feelings hurt so often by the truth as it applies to men. The thing though is that I would have said the exact same to Mrs. Doubt if it applied to women so much as it does men. But it doesn't, so I didn't. I mentioned to her the types of scenarios as commonly applies to women regarding her husband in this type of situation. Which is what I do with men with the same complaint regarding their wife. It matters not one bit to me that you don't like it.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

StarFires said:


> It's so funny to me that you know you won't be banned for hijacking this thread and baiting me, but I will be banned because you hijacked and baited me and will be accused of being the one who did the baiting. Hilarious! Keep on having your fun.
> 
> I don't make any difference between men and women. I speak the truth to both without regard to gender. Too bad you get your feelings hurt so often by the truth as it applies to men. The thing though is that I would have said the exact same to Mrs. Doubt if it applied to women so much as it does men. But it doesn't, so I didn't. I mentioned to her the types of scenarios as commonly applies to women regarding her husband in this type of situation. Which is what I do with men with the same complaint regarding their wife. It matters not one bit to me that you don't like it.


It's all good there Star, I did find it funny that none of your scenarios deal with the only advice you give men in this situation. Do I think your usual advice would help her, no I don't. Just like it has yet to help any man in a HD/LD relationship on here.

I don't have my feelings hurt and have a good sex life with my wife, because we talked about it, saw a counselor, and worked through our issues, together. If I had followed your usual advice, we would be even worse off than before.

Sorry for the threadjack OP, it was just too hard to resist pointing out that Star always blames men, no matter who wants what.


-------

Back to the OP, I really think you need to convey the seriousness of this whole thing. Go back on birth control and say that you cannot imagine bringing a child into this and living this way for the rest of your life. I know you said divorce is not on the table, but a lifetime of misery is your most likely option if you don't put it on the table.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

StarFires said:


> I mentioned the "good girl syndrome" which isn't actually a clinical term. It's just a term I coined for lack of a better one or actual one. But what it means is sometimes there are guys who have the notion (due to social and cultural cues) that it's okay to have their fun with the easy girls, the good time girls, but when it comes time to settle down, they should pick a good girl to marry. Once selecting that "good girl" and realize she enjoys sex and wants it from him (which he views as her demanding from him), then he's turned off and prefers not to have to perform because he sees her desire as ruining the "good girl" image he had of her.


Good Girl Syndrome sounds a lot like the male version of Alpha Fux Beta Bux.

I won’t deny that there are men who think “there are the kind you date and there are the kind you marry,” just as women do the same. And the rising age of marriage allows more years to play these games. But few people want to intentionally enter into a sexless marriage.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> It's all good there Star, I did find it funny that none of your scenarios deal with the only advice you give men in this situation.


There you go as usual doing nothing but arguing with nothing to say. You tell me this kind ridiculousness after I specifically stated I mentioned to her what commonly applies to women. Why you would think this makes any sense whatsoever to point out that I didn't give her the same advice I give to men is beyond me. Except that you constantly want to argue. There was no point in me reading your post any further knowing nothing else you say makes any sense.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

just putting this out there....is it possible that he is gay? Did he marry out of obligation? I have a friend who did just that and didn't really understand what was going on with himself.
Took a few years but he figured it out, divorced his wife ( I really felt bad for her) and is now in a loving same-sex relationship.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Good Girl Syndrome sounds a lot like the male version of Alpha Fux Beta Bux.
> 
> I won’t deny that there are men who think “there are the kind you date and there are the kind you marry,” just as women do the same. And the rising age of marriage allows more years to play these games. But few people want to intentionally enter into a sexless marriage.


You made me *look that up* because I'd never heard of it. I agree with the premise and know it does happen, but it's not what I was describing at all.


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

I think Star was referring to the Madonna-***** complex:

Men with this complex desire a sexual partner who has been degraded while they cannot desire the respected partner (the Madonna). Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

aquarius1 said:


> just putting this out there....is it possible that he is gay? Did he marry out of obligation? I have a friend who did just that and didn't really understand what was going on with himself.
> Took a few years but he figured it out, divorced his wife ( I really felt bad for her) and is now in a loving same-sex relationship.


Yep I mentioned that because I know you're right that it happens with gay men. Bruce Jenner is a prime example. I've heard women say how hurtful it is and also heard that they (gay man and former wife) remained close friends.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

aquarius1 said:


> just putting this out there....is it possible that he is gay? Did he marry out of obligation? I have a friend who did just that and didn't really understand what was going on with himself.
> Took a few years but he figured it out, divorced his wife ( I really felt bad for her) and is now in a loving same-sex relationship.


This is something that has crossed my over-thoughtful brain. I just don't know anymore!


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## Tasorundo (Apr 1, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> This is something that has crossed my over-thoughtful brain. I just don't know anymore!


You won't know until you really convey the importance of this to him. I know I filled this thread with some crap that I was having fun with, but I think there is some good advice in there.

Really, my friend that had a similar husband was never able to change anything until she was ready to lose it all. It took years for her to get there, years of being sad and isolated.

You get one life to live, if nothing else, you owe it to yourself to try and get to the bottom of this and see what can be done. It is very likely he is also not happy feeling how he does, however that may be.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Tasorundo said:


> I think Star was referring to the Madonna-***** complex:
> 
> Men with this complex desire a sexual partner who has been degraded while they cannot desire the respected partner (the Madonna). Freud wrote: "Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love."


I wouldn't say that's it either. I was talking about a man learning his wife is similar to the bad girls he previously had fun with, in that he found out she was desirous of having sex, which ruined the good girl image he had of her. There are men who don't know women enjoy sex too (I've certainly been with enough of them). For the types of guys I'm talking about, they are given the notion somewhere in boyhood or during adolescence that a woman who likes sex is a wanton woman, and a wanton woman is not a good woman. They could even marry a virgin and discovering she enjoys sexual relations ruins the image.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Mrs Doubt said:


> This is something that has crossed my over-thoughtful brain. I just don't know anymore!


And that's the reason he needs to get counseling. This is something he either has to discover about himself or come to terms with about himself or completely rule out about himself. And it will give you closure too.

You need to stop thinking about this so hard. You don't have any answers, so you aren't going to find any in your head. You need to take action that will help you both find out what the problem is.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Mrs Doubt said:


> This is something that has crossed my over-thoughtful brain. I just don't know anymore!


Does H believe that homosexuals go to Hell? That homosexuality is what you do, not who you are? In other words, does he believe that God will not send you to Hell for your desires, but engaging in homosexual acts would cause him to be tortured for eternity in Hellfire?

Do his parents/family have that belief?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> Does H believe that homosexuals go to Hell? That homosexuality is what you do, not who you are? In other words, does he believe that God will not send you to Hell for your desires, but engaging in homosexual acts would cause him to be tortured for eternity in Hellfire?
> 
> Do his parents/family have that belief?


These are very good questions. It is more common than people realize for a man who is a Christian but who struggles with homosexuality to try to "pass" by marrying. This is because they are afraid to face their feelings. And because they are afraid of everyone else's judgment. I can empathize with that.

HOWEVER, to drag another person into your issues by marrying them and then not having a normal marriage is not okay or justifiable.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

CraigBesuden said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > This is something that has crossed my over-thoughtful brain. I just don't know anymore!
> ...


Not at all. I am a Catholic but he is atheist- in fact dispises religion. He is very insecure around gay men though- this is something I have noticed over the years.

Thank you all for your input today. I haven't been brave enough to make the opportunity to talm tonight. Hopefully I will tomorrow. I want to feel more clear headed and less emotional about everything so I don't just deflect or cry.

We shall see what tomorrow brings.


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## StarFires (Feb 27, 2018)

Personofinterest saying this......



personofinterest said:


> These are very good questions. It is more common than people realize for a man who is a Christian but who struggles with homosexuality to try to "pass" by marrying. This is because they are afraid to face their feelings. And because they are afraid of everyone else's judgment. I can empathize with that.
> 
> HOWEVER, to drag another person into your issues by marrying them and then not having a normal marriage is not okay or justifiable.


.....reminds me that I said this......



StarFires said:


> In that same vein, it's a well-known phenomenon that men don't respond to words. Men respond to actions. So you not only have to give him a reason to respond (your concerns), but you have to give him something to respond to (your actions). When you limit your willingness to take action, you also limit your likelihood of response. By taking divorce off the table, you not only sentence yourself to this life, but you will never know how he feels. If divorce were even a possibility, you would find out pretty quickly if and how much you and the marriage matter to him.


......which makes me wonder just how concerned you are and if you're willing to be limitless in your attempt to find out the truth. 

It would be terrible that if he's actually gay, he has dragged you into this farce of a marriage just so he can have companionship and keep up appearances. And/or to avoid facing his own demons.

So, if you guys don't have insurance and can't afford for him to seek counseling, how far would you be willing to go to find out whether or not he is gay? Particularly since it could and probably would end in divorce?

What I'm thinking is for you to consider asking a gay man to talk to your husband to see if he is open to it. Maybe he has but perhaps he has not accepted that he's gay and hasn't acted on it. And perhaps he does recognize it but refuses to accept it. 

Either way, communication with a gay man just might help him. I'm not suggesting you have a gay man pursue your husband, although that's an option too. I'm saying ask someone to talk to him about it. I'm betting you and he know someone who is gay. That person might be someone you both like and respect. He might be able to open up, whereas he would never feel comfortable enough to open up to you, and all your talking and letter writing won't make him want to.

Is that an idea you would consider? Or are you too steadfast in your effort to hold on to the marriage? If that is the case, then it's the only instance, of all that you shared with us, in which I do think you would be selfish. Helping your husband to discover and/or accept his sexuality would be a selfless and loving thing to do. I do realize it would be hurtful to you though.


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Not at all. I am a Catholic but he is atheist- in fact dispises religion. He is very insecure around gay men though- this is something I have noticed over the years.
> 
> Thank you all for your input today. I haven't been brave enough to make the opportunity to talm tonight. Hopefully I will tomorrow. I want to feel more clear headed and less emotional about everything so I don't just deflect or cry.
> 
> We shall see what tomorrow brings.


Define insecure. Does he publicly denounce them? Vigorously? I've seen that before too. Because the guy was gay and overcompensating in his rejection of others.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

StarFires said:


> Personofinterest saying this......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Be careful of this. Someone who is trying to hide homosexuality may react violently in this situation.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

My personal view is that if he’s not religious and his parents aren’t religious, he’s probably not in the closet.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

I am leaning more toward a medical problem. It would explain why he is so avoidant. I guess I need to get down to the fact about whether the shower masturbation is a regular thing or whether it was just a few rare times.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I am leaning more toward a medical problem. It would explain why he is so avoidant. I guess I need to get down to the fact about whether the shower masturbation is a regular thing or whether it was just a few rare times.


Actually, asexuality is the most likely answer. 

I know it seems odd. But you are operating from the assumption that he has a sex drive and it is dampened for some reason.

But if you realize some people literally don’t have one (even if they occasionally masturbate) things will make more sense.

Most asexual people don’t know they are this unless they hear about and identify with the term so it’s not like he is going to tell you he is asexual. The clues are in the little things they say which indicate that they aren’t that interested in sex in general and how they don’t understand people who are.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > I am leaning more toward a medical problem. It would explain why he is so avoidant. I guess I need to get down to the fact about whether the shower masturbation is a regular thing or whether it was just a few rare times.
> ...


I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man. 

I need to stop guessing and just grow some balls and ask him. I'll have the conversation when he has finished work today. 

Am I just blunt and start with a 'let's talk about sex?' Or more subtle?


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## aquarius1 (May 10, 2019)

I think the time for subtlety is over. But be prepared to back up your words with actions. 

Start with a visit to the doctor. Complete check up. T levels, thyroid,blood pressure etc. Sleep apnea. The works. 
Be observant for depression. Men manifest differently. 
He is ex-forces. Was he deployed? Have him assessed for PTSD.

You have to insist on action. Or you will spend your life lonely and feeling unloved/unwanted.

Please DO NOT arrange for a gay man to talk to him. That could be dangerous and end badly.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

> I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man.
> 
> I need to stop guessing and just grow some balls and ask him. I'll have the conversation when he has finished work today.
> 
> Am I just blunt and start with a 'let's talk about sex?' Or more subtle?


Yep. Going from “quite a ladies man” to a sexless marriage and fun in the shower is strange. He has some explaining to do.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man.
> 
> I need to stop guessing and just grow some balls and ask him. I'll have the conversation when he has finished work today.
> 
> Am I just blunt and start with a 'let's talk about sex?' Or more subtle?


Did the stories of him being a ladies man come from just him or do you have other witnesses? Because an asexual person will describe one tryst and claim this means they are just so sexual. But they won’t mention it only happened once and they never pursued anything like that again. In the meantime you will be thinking they are describing something they did all the time.

I’d just be blunt and go for it.

Again though, I would not expect him to tell you he is asexual. Though if he is, he may be able to understand what that means if introduced to the subject slowly. I also think you should peruse asexuality.org before you talk to him to see if you see him or yourself (as a loved one) in there.


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man.
> 
> I need to stop guessing and just grow some balls and ask him. I'll have the conversation when he has finished work today.
> 
> Am I just blunt and start with a 'let's talk about sex?' Or more subtle?


The word “oxygen” should be part of the conversation. And that sex is expected, full stop, no hoops and even if you’re fighting/mad at each other (not a weapon).


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

If divorce is off the table as an option, you are trapped in this marriage and your husband can do what he likes. It's a no win situation for you. Your husband will carry on regardless, ignoring your needs, because there is no threat to his status quo.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Agree 100%
Many asexual people don't realize that they are asexual. Sometimes they think media over-hypes sex, or that "real" couples don't have sex very often. I remember my wife expressing extreme surprise when I suggested that sex a couple of times a week was pretty typical for romantic couples - she seemd to think it was more like once every few months. (I think she did some reading and is trying to make things more frequent - which is sort of great, but I worry that it is a strain on her). 

If you go to boards that discuss asexuality you will see a lot of people posting who really have no idea of how central sex is to many romantic relationships.








Faithful Wife said:


> Actually, asexuality is the most likely answer.
> 
> I know it seems odd. But you are operating from the assumption that he has a sex drive and it is dampened for some reason.
> 
> ...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

uhtred said:


> Agree 100%
> Many asexual people don't realize that they are asexual. Sometimes they think media over-hypes sex, or that "real" couples don't have sex very often. I remember my wife expressing extreme surprise when I suggested that sex a couple of times a week was pretty typical for romantic couples - she seemd to think it was more like once every few months. (I think she did some reading and is trying to make things more frequent - which is sort of great, but I worry that it is a strain on her).
> 
> If you go to boards that discuss asexuality you will see a lot of people posting who really have no idea of how central sex is to many romantic relationships.


It would be interesting to know is asexuality is truly inherent or if environment can play a factor. I know my ex came from a household where his parents had a good long term partnership, but the romantic aspect of it was limited. I doubt they had very much sex at all once the kids were conceived, and that is based on remarks and statements made over the years. I often have wondered how my ex sister-in-law's husband dealt with it. Or maybe she was the exception to the nonsexual family rule.

I'll never really know whether my ex was asexual or secretly gay. Thank goodness it no longer matters.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Its very difficult to tell. I don't think there is a simple relationship to environment. My wife and I both grew up in sexually repressed households, but I ended up clearly sexual, she nearly asexual. 


It may not really matter since it seems to be a fairly unchangable part of a person's behavior / personality. 




personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know is asexuality is truly inherent or if environment can play a factor. I know my ex came from a household where his parents had a good long term partnership, but the romantic aspect of it was limited. I doubt they had very much sex at all once the kids were conceived, and that is based on remarks and statements made over the years. I often have wondered how my ex sister-in-law's husband dealt with it. Or maybe she was the exception to the nonsexual family rule.
> 
> I'll never really know whether my ex was asexual or secretly gay. Thank goodness it no longer matters.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti (Apr 23, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> It would be interesting to know is asexuality is truly inherent or if environment can play a factor. I know my ex came from a household where his parents had a good long term partnership, but the romantic aspect of it was limited. I doubt they had very much sex at all once the kids were conceived, and that is based on remarks and statements made over the years. I often have wondered how my ex sister-in-law's husband dealt with it. Or maybe she was the exception to the nonsexual family rule.
> 
> I'll never really know whether my ex was asexual or secretly gay. Thank goodness it no longer matters.


Ahhh, the age old question. 

Like most things, I suspect both nurture and nature play a part. My wife is of an exceedingly risk averse personality type, and that naturally manifests in conservative sexual behavior. She also had a number of very sex-negative experiences in her developmental years which really cemented things. It was the perfect storm. It took both to make her who she is. 

Just playing amateur psychologist here, I think:
Had she not had traumatic sexual experiences, she would still be sexually conservative, but not nearly as much as she is.
Had she had a less risk averse personality, those experiences would have still given her cause for caution, but not quite so extreme as she is. 
Those two things put together, however, are exceedingly difficult to overcome and clearly conspired against her, and by extension, us.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man.
> ...


I have had a look at that website. It is so interesting! So much I didn't consider


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if he is uninterested in sex at all. He is ex-forces and from the stories used to be a right ladies man.
> ...


I have had a look at that website. It is so interesting! So much I didn't consider


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

I chickened out again last night. Guess I am terrified of a negative reaction.

I have tried a more friendly cuddle up and 'we should be more intimate with each other' he seemed really supprised that I thought he wasn't and agreed we could try to be more so. Kissing, cuddling, hand holding. I'm hoping I've made some ground towards being brave enough to have the proper conversation. Or am I just skirting around the inevitable?


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## CharlieParker (Aug 15, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I chickened out again last night. Guess I am terrified of a negative reaction.
> 
> I have tried a more friendly cuddle up and 'we should be more intimate with each other' he seemed really supprised that I thought he wasn't and agreed we could try to be more so. Kissing, cuddling, hand holding. I'm hoping I've made some ground towards being brave enough to have the proper conversation. Or am I just skirting around the inevitable?


Were you surprised that he was surprised? You probably shouldn’t have been. What do you think is the inevitable?

When we need to “try more” our go to is “double stacking” on the couch. We’re probably going to watch TV together anyway, so may as well get some boob fondling in. It’s nice but for served as reminder there is a reason we are “trying more” and we need to work on that.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

If he is asexual, which I suspect, this may not actually be progress, but just a way to torture yourself. 

My nearly-asexual wife LOVES cuddling and kissing. The thing is, to her these things have nothing to do with "sex". I like cuddling a lot - but to me it is also arousing, especially if I haven't had sex in months, so for me it leads to false hope, and then worse frustration.

Direct conversation is all that has worked - and that has needed to be repeated regularly. Otherwise sex gets fairly good for a while, then dwindles slowly away - she thinks everything is great until I bring it up again. Hints don't work. 

A while back we were on vacation and she at some point asked why I seemed sort of unhappy. When I told her that we were on what we planned as a romantic vacation, but hadn't had sex once, after having gone 3 months without sex before - she seemed surprised that that could possibly be the cause of my unhappiness. This is despite a very difficult conversation about this regularly. (Things have been good for a few months now, but I expect that they will back slide again). 

So, I think you need a direct conversation. It needs to be specific - its about SEX, not romance, cuddling, intimacy, passion or all that. The problem is a lack of *sex*. You need to be very very clear. 

Its really difficult / painful to have such conversations. It may not help anyway. 




Mrs Doubt said:


> I chickened out again last night. Guess I am terrified of a negative reaction.
> 
> I have tried a more friendly cuddle up and 'we should be more intimate with each other' he seemed really supprised that I thought he wasn't and agreed we could try to be more so. Kissing, cuddling, hand holding. I'm hoping I've made some ground towards being brave enough to have the proper conversation. Or am I just skirting around the inevitable?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> Honestly, the reason you keep getting the same advice is because it is the RIGHT advice.


I agree with this statement *so* much I felt the need to quote it just for the simple truth of it all.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

CharlieParker said:


> Mrs Doubt said:
> 
> 
> > I chickened out again last night. Guess I am terrified of a negative reaction.
> ...


I'm not sure what reaction I was expecting. In my head it is always a very negative one. 

I guess that's what I'm afraid of bringing the whole thing up. That the horrible thoughts I have- that at this point I can almost shout back down- would be confirmed as true.


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## Steelman (Mar 5, 2018)

The flat out truth is, you need to determine if you can live like it is now. Things might get better for short periods of time, but they will revert.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I remember your other thread(s) about this issue. First, congratulations on your pregnancy!

This seems like an ideal time for marriage counseling. Is that something that you would consider? 

I am the type of person who likes to work through my emotions privately before I try to talk them out with my husband. I feel more level-headed that way. A neutral third party like a counselor can help you do that, could also serve as a neutral party for this discussion if you should choose to do that. 

I feel for you. And I remember clearly being pregnant, and how it made a lot of the things I could previously sweep under the rug just feel like monumental problems that were soul crushing. When the baby comes, it will either take your mind off of this issue, or it will amplify it. Hopefully the former and not the latter... but I think you know that it isn't just going to go away. 

Regarding counseling - I would not tell my H that i wanted to go for the sex issue, I would approach it more as an overall marriage tune-up and strengthening to prepare for the baby's arrival. Make it about both of you, and wanting to have the best marriage possible to begin raising a child in. 

I have found that a lot of men have their ego tied into their sexuality... broaching the subject can bring up a lot of shame and denial, which usually leads to just shutting down. Recognize that it is probably also a painful topic for him (knowing he's disappointing you, feeling inadequate) and that it might be difficult for him to talk about it. Especially if you are upset (most men are trained to avoid making their woman upset!). His way of showing it's a touchy subject may just be to deflect, avoid and gaslight rather than approach it head on. A counselor could help you navigate the minefields! 

BTW - I noticed you mentioned your H has anxiety on one of your other threads. Has he ever sought treatment for it? That can really have a huge impact on libido. 

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

kag123 said:


> I remember your other thread(s) about this issue. First, congratulations on your pregnancy!
> 
> This seems like an ideal time for marriage counseling. Is that something that you would consider?
> 
> ...


Hi again and thank you 🙂

Counselling is something that I am already on a waiting list for anyway. There is a prenatal mental health service here in the UK which my midwife has referred me for. I'm hoping that-as you say- this will give me a space to open up and tall through my thoughts, rationalising them before I speak to H about them. I'm hoping there will be an opportunity to invite him along to a session, this is something that has been mentioned before.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

uhtred said:


> My nearly-asexual wife LOVES cuddling and kissing. The thing is, to her these things have nothing to do with "sex". I like cuddling a lot - but to me it is also arousing, especially if I haven't had sex in months, so for me it leads to false hope,


What’s so terrible about cuddling, kissing AND sex? Then everyone is happy, right?

Unless sex in an hour long and she doesn’t orgasm, fine. But damn, if you make sure there are no dirty dishes in the sink to please W, can’t W give you some sympathy sex on the reg?

Is sex like torture to asexuals or what?


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

For some yes. 

Imagine if to keep your wife happy you had to regularly have sex with a guy. (assuming you are a straight male). 




CraigBesuden said:


> What’s so terrible about cuddling, kissing AND sex? Then everyone is happy, right?
> 
> Unless sex in an hour long and she doesn’t orgasm, fine. But damn, if you make sure there are no dirty dishes in the sink to please W, can’t W give you some sympathy sex on the reg?
> 
> Is sex like torture to asexuals or what?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

uhtred said:


> For some yes.
> 
> Imagine if to keep your wife happy you had to regularly have sex with a guy. (assuming you are a straight male).


If I were asexual and that’s how I felt, I wouldn’t get married.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> > For some yes.
> ...


Yep, that would be the UNselfish thing to do


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

I figured asexuals looked at sex the way I look at watching “The Simpsons.” I would never, ever choose to watch it. When I’m with somebody who does, I go along with it and I always enjoy it... but I’d never choose it. It’s not the best way to spend my time.

If my wife wanted to watch “The Simpsons” and it was really important to her, I’d watch it with her a couple times a week, no problem.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> I figured asexuals looked at sex the way I look at watching “The Simpsons.” I would never, ever choose to watch it. When I’m with somebody who does, I go along with it and I always enjoy it... but I’d never choose it. It’s not the best way to spend my time.
> 
> If my wife wanted to watch “The Simpsons” and it was really important to her, I’d watch it with her a couple times a week, no problem.


It’s far more complicated than this. The best way to actually understand asexuals is to read up at asexuality.com.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

Faithful Wife said:


> CraigBesuden said:
> 
> 
> > I figured asexuals looked at sex the way I look at watching “The Simpsons.” I would never, ever choose to watch it. When I’m with somebody who does, I go along with it and I always enjoy it... but I’d never choose it. It’s not the best way to spend my time.
> ...


A very informative website, I've been reading it for days!


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Completely agree, but...

Sadly some people, especially girls, were told that "sex will be wonderful when you find the right man". So when they find they have no interest in sex, they assume that they haven't found the right person yet, or haven't had that magical "marriage" that would make them desire sex. They never realized that most people actively desire sex. They may choose not to act on that desire until marriage, but they still want it. 





CraigBesuden said:


> If I were asexual and that’s how I felt, I wouldn’t get married.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

uhtred said:


> My nearly-asexual wife LOVES cuddling and kissing. The thing is, to her these things have nothing to do with "sex". I like cuddling a lot - but to me it is also arousing, especially if I haven't had sex in months, so for me it leads to false hope, and then worse frustration.


So true... my wife could never understand this and this is the reason we are separating... I can't be with a woman I love and desire and not be able to take my love to a deeper level (pun intended)...


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Mrs Doubt said:


> Faithful Wife said:
> 
> 
> > CraigBesuden said:
> ...


All I get when I go there is that the URL is for sale.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> All I get when I go there is that the URL is for sale.


Sorry it is asexuality.org


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

In Absentia said:


> uhtred said:
> 
> 
> > My nearly-asexual wife LOVES cuddling and kissing. The thing is, to her these things have nothing to do with "sex". I like cuddling a lot - but to me it is also arousing, especially if I haven't had sex in months, so for me it leads to false hope, and then worse frustration.
> ...


I'm sorry to hear this 😞


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## wilson (Nov 5, 2012)

CraigBesuden said:


> If my wife wanted to watch “The Simpsons” and it was really important to her, I’d watch it with her a couple times a week, no problem.


You need to think of something more emotionally entangled rather than watching a TV show. That's too passive of an activity since you can just sit there and tune out. Think about some sexual activity which you would have a strong aversion too. Perhaps pegging, watersports, a guy giving you a BJ, or whatever. Those things are enjoyable to some people, but others will have a strong aversion to them. Those kinds of things would be harder to just sit there and go along with if you weren't into it.


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

So I did it!

We had the conversation.

It started as I was getting undressed in some new underwear and he just had no interest at all. I started with the angle of 'I feel that I'm not sexy to you anymore' which I guess is my underlying feeling.

He told me I was being ridiculous, that I was beautiful.

I used this as a gateway for asking him to actually listen to what I was saying, not just tell me I'm being ridiculous.

I told him how I felt- I didn't use the letter in the end.

He has said he thinks that it is the tablets he is on for his anxiety, although I did point out that I felt the problems started before these.

He said that he just doesn't feel anything in that way anymore, doesn't masturbate. I askes if this bothered him and he said he just didn't think of it.

I asked if he would go to the doc to investigate any issues and he has agreed. He is already lowering the dose of his medication so we have set a date to discuss this again. I asked for this as I explained how long it had taken me to work up the courage to speak to him thus far.

I guess we see what happens from here on.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> So I did it!
> 
> We had the conversation.
> 
> ...


Yay!!! It could be a combo of low T and meds.

Or at least a look into these may make a difference. 

Did you jump his bones after that? If he says you are beautiful, can you take him at his word at that and be aggressive in showing him you really want him also?


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Glad your conversation might have worked!

My brother just told me that although you can’t legally take stuff to give you an artificially high level of T, you can have meds to bring you up to average - even if your drop is due to age.

No idea if that is true.

I take pills from GNC that claim to boost testosterone and libido. Not sure if they are legit, though.

Anti-anxiety pills totally change things. It’s legit. But they never stop me from performing cunnilingus.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Anti-anxiety and anti-depressants can completely kill someones sex drive. That could be the answer. OTOH since he was like this before, maybe it only made it worse?



Mrs Doubt said:


> So I did it!
> 
> We had the conversation.
> 
> ...


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## Mrs Doubt (Apr 23, 2019)

I certainly feel that I was heard this time. I guess only time will tell whether or not anything has actually changed.

So I guess I'll see you back here in a few weeks.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Mrs Doubt said:


> I certainly feel that I was heard this time. I guess only time will tell whether or not anything has actually changed.



I hope so, but he was so vague in his answers that somehow I doubt it, Mrs Doubt! The problem started before the pills and... he didn't think about it? :scratchhead:


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## dadstartingover (Oct 23, 2015)

CraigBesuden said:


> Glad your conversation might have worked!
> 
> My brother just told me that although you can’t legally take stuff to give you an artificially high level of T, you can have meds to bring you up to average - even if your drop is due to age.
> 
> ...


There is no legit OTC drug that will boost testosterone to any degree that is enough to cause you to see changes. Gotta take the real thing. 

The moment you take testosterone, you are, by definition, at an artificially high level of T. Your body wouldn't go up to levels of 700 - 1,000 naturally, but on a prescribed TRT regimen it would. On a typical steroid "cycle", that number can be 2,000 or higher.


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