# Why didn't you talk to me before you cheated?



## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met". 

So my question to the WS is...

If you you weren't getting your needs met, why didn't you *tell *ME _before_ you cheated? 

The more I think about this stuff the more lame the excuses sound!

Vega


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## TNgirl232 (Oct 5, 2008)

Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


I can relate. Mine said I wasn't paying enough attention to him and our marriage. Of course, he didn't bother to share this with me prior to. The reason I was preoccupied was because my dad had passed away unexpectedly (I signed to have life support removed after he suffered major cardiac arrest) and I was grieving and depressed. 

My mom is still living and when I'm feeling particularly snarky or *****y I ask my WS what he might do when my mom passes away. 

I agree, the excuses sound extremely lame!


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## Jasel (Jan 8, 2013)

TNgirl232 said:


> Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.


Not trying to justify it but have to admit I've seen plenty of that. 

Reading through some of the threads in the Ladies and Mens section is like Red Flag City. Not to mention in real life. 

I figured my best friends gf was going to start cheating on him about 6 months before it actually started happening just because he didn't take anything she tried to tell him about their relationship seriously.


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## StillLife (Jan 19, 2013)

My wife didn't communicate anything to me before engaging in her 2nd affair this year. I was already guessing at what I needed to do to improve the marriage to prevent it from happening again, but she wasn't as dedicated to making things work.

Still, would have been nice if we could have at least confided or talked to me rather than turning to strangers on the Internet and got herself out there in the way of another affair fog opportunity.


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## SaltInWound (Jan 2, 2013)

I think it would be better for a WS to say "Either we sit down and talk about this or I am filing for divorce so I can find someone else". 

Sorry, there is absolutely no excuse for cheating.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

With men, more times than not, it has nothing to do with needs not being met. Just my opinion.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

My own theory is that in some cases, the WS does not really know they are THAT unhappy until they start their EA. THEN, all of a sudden their marriage is the worst thing in the world. It's a way they justify their infidelity and lack of character.

I know this is true in my case. Yes, we had grown apart in the years when our kids were younger and all of our free time seemed to be doing parenting stuff instead of couple's stuff. I take full responsibility for not thinking enough about continually wooing my own wife. I was too damn busy being a father, apparently. Yet, we still had time at night together, we still had a healthy sex life. I left my wife at home on many weekends so that she could pursue her love of golf (a passion we both shared - in fact, I introduced her to the game and taught her how to play). Things worked for a few years. THEN, she met a guy in a tournament who flirted with her and made her blush. THEN, she texted him and the EA started. From that point forward, our marriage was basically doomed. Nothing in our marriage could compare to the thrill of her EA. The POSOM was always available to text, and he was free on weekends (having just left his wife and 3 year old and 1 year old daughters). Life wasn't "boring" with him. Everything in our marriage was all of a sudden the worst thing in the world.

So it wasn't a case of talking about unhappiness prior to the affair. It was a case of my stbxw "discovering" that she was unhappy as a way to justify her affair. Even now, our marriage gets worse and worse in her memory. It's like nothing good ever happened. Our beautiful home (our second), with the paid off mortgage, our married friends who we used to hang out with, all of our vacations - all of our Anniversary weekends. All the good times, all the shared experiences were apparently all a charade.


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## watcher (Oct 22, 2012)

I am about 9 months post confession day. The A lasted 5 years off and on (mostly on).He told be after come MC that he lost his mind. He became like an addicted person. 
He told himself "Everyone else is doing this so why not me too?"
" I still love my wife (me) but this is for me."
He said that now (out of the mental fog) he can't really believe he could actually believe he thought these things. 
He isolated himself, withdrew from me and after awhile I stopped trying to get him to talk to me. Told myself we've been married so long, getting older blah blah. Now I know it was his guilt and inability to leave the whole mess. (Until she went sort of Basic Instinct on him, which I find sort of Cosmic justice)


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

SaltInWound said:


> I think it would be better for a WS to say "*Either we sit down and talk about this or I am filing for divorce so I can find someone else*".
> 
> Sorry, there is absolutely no excuse for cheating.


Yes! What I bolded is what they should tell us. Of course, this means that they would have actually had to THOUGHT about leaving BEFORE they cheated, which I see isn't the case most of the time. 

I've actually seen some of the WS say things like, "What was I supposed to do? Get a divorce?" as if TALKING or getting divorced aren't options...

...and the cheating quite often leads to divorce anyway! 

Makes me think that there isn't a whole lot of thinking that goes into their choice...

Vega


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

I wish my wife would have talked to my before she decided to shut down our sex life all by herself two years before I cheated. And as an FYI, I did talk to my wife multiple times before I cheated. She knew there were multiple problems, including our sex life. Yet she refused to attempt any of the possible solutions that we discussed, including seeing her doctor about birth control alternatives, working on her weight to improve her self image (her idea, not mine), or anything else. 

I realize that you're not my wife, and none of this might have happened in your relationship. But as the expression goes, there's three sides to every story. His side, her side, and the truth...

C


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Vega said:


> So my question to the WS is...
> If you you weren't getting your needs met, why didn't you *tell *ME _before_ you cheated?


I'm not a WS but a BH. I can tell you why in my wife's case. The "needs" she was fulfilling with the affair were no actually needs but wants nad I was the last man to the task If she was to chose AP.
After all I was just her husband. I'm not new, she already knows I love her, I'm attracted to her. I can't show her she still "have it".

Sometimes is true we are not fulfilling basic needs we should as a spouse, sometimes it's just bull they dishes us to excuse themselves after being caught (If you can - unlike - prove he's wrong the target will move again to a new excuse, its very easy to do). I suspect many times it's as my case, the affair fulfill different needs the marriage can't, by it's own nature, fulfill. They are selfish "needs" of course.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Thundarr said:


> With men, more times than not, it has nothing to do with needs not being met. Just my opinion.


WOW


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I'm not a WS but a BH. I can tell you why in my wife's case. The "needs" she was fulfilling with the affair were no actually needs but wants nad I was the last man to the task If she was to chose AP.
> After all I was just her husband. *I'm not new, she already knows I love her, I'm attracted to her. I can't show her she still "have it".*
> 
> Sometimes is true we are not fulfilling basic needs we should as a spouse, sometimes it's just bull they dishes us to excuse themselves after being caught (If you can - unlike - prove he's wrong the target will move again to a new excuse, its very easy to do). I suspect many times it's as my case, the affair fulfill different needs the marriage can't, by it's own nature, fulfill. They are selfish "needs" of course.


I bolded the part I think is key. With kids, I was guilty of always being in wonder and amazement of my kids. Previous to kids, my wonderment and amazement was reserved for my stbxw. We were married for 10 years before kids - so when we finally had them - it left a void in terms of MY attention to her. I acknowledge that. I take responsibility for that. The thing is, I can't honestly conceive how (with two young kids) I could possibly spend as much time FOR my wife - by its nature, parenthood requires that a lot of your time is spent with the kids, especially when they're babies.

I think my stbxw, deep down, wondered if I was not as attracted to her. That was NOT the case - it's just that I was "too busy" to pay her the same type of attention as before. She KNEW that I loved her. She KNEW that I still found her attractive - but she needed constant external validation because I wasn't making as many obvious signs. Her own insecurities and lack of character/boundaries caused her to cheat.


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## Miss Taken (Aug 18, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I'm not a WS but a BH. I can tell you why in my wife's case. The "needs" she was fulfilling with the affair were no actually needs but wants nad I was the last man to the task If she was to chose AP.
> After all I was just her husband. *I'm not new, she already knows I love her, I'm attracted to her. I can't show her she still "have it"*.


I think that had a lot to do with why my ex cheated too. I thanked him and showed appreciation for something on a daily basis (even the little things like doing the dishes), pursued him sexually and told him and others including his family and friends the things that I was attracted to or admired in him. It all fell on deaf ears. 

He "needed" the validation from someone new because someone that's only known you for a short while, never seen you with the flu and has never had an argument with you is so much more valuable than someone that's known you for a decade, seen you at your worst and still has attraction, respect and admiration for you as a man. 

My ex also didn't/doesn't try to talk and this won't change for the woman he's trying to be with now. He stonewalls and pouts instead of talking, says things like, "If you don't know I am not going to tell you.", diverts the conversation (distracts you from the facts/topic at hand by arguing about a word, tone or gesture made during the argument until you're so upset and tired about having wasted an hour talking about the usage of the word or whether or not you were yelling that you give up trying to discuss the original topic) and rug-sweeps everything he does or he's upset about you doing. He does it with every person he has a relationship with (friends, parents, siblings, etc.), did it to me and will do it to the next woman. Then he'll blame the communication problems on her because women are crazy.


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## 3putt (Dec 3, 2012)

TNgirl232 said:


> Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.


I'm ashamed and appalled to admit it, but this was me.

Let's face it BSs, while adultery is never an excuse for this betrayal, _sometimes_ we do give a damned good reason for it. 

I did. I fully admit it.

Well, the second time anyway.

In my case at least, when I truly came to this realization, it crushed me more than the betrayal.

Go figure.


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## waiwera (Sep 8, 2009)

To the WS who tried to talk...but didn't feel heard. Did you ever say the words... " things have got so bad I'm wanting to/about to have an affair?" or was it general "We need to talk" or "I'm not happy"?

Genuine question.


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## goodwife4 (Jan 7, 2013)

because they are selfish and cruel !!!

my hubby was getting it all ............... or so i thought ............... we had a good sex life.... 2 to 3 times a week
lots of passion, fun and i like to be unpredictable too

i was doing it all for him but he still felt the need to do it with someone else

.............. because he was a selfish pig


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## PBear (Nov 16, 2010)

waiwera said:


> To the WS who tried to talk...but didn't feel heard. Did you ever say the words... " things have got so bad I'm wanting to/about to have an affair?" or was it general "We need to talk" or "I'm not happy"?
> 
> Genuine question.


Honestly, I never told her I was on the verge of an affair. There were "discussions" to the point of tears on both sides, but I never told her I had reached that point.

C


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## The Cro-Magnon (Sep 30, 2012)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


As much as I hate cheaters, pathologically, I think a breakdown in communication, where neither partner know how to talk to one another without it turning into a fight, and back and forth accusations, might lead to a state where one spouse is unable to communicate the fact their needs aren't being met.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

In my case I didn't realize I was missing anything until the OW appeared and suddenly started providing it. By the time I figured out I was in trouble I was already hooked on the crack pipe. My affair was an EA and I don't think this applies as much for PA's, it's easy to stretch and push boundaries in small steps in an EA. After all, how damaging can ONE conversation be? It's when you look back at the sum of many conversations that you realize somehow, something about the relationship changed. Unfortunately for me when I realized that I made the wrong choice, I was already in. 

In the years of post DDay analysis my wife and both agree that we had been taking each other fore granted before my EA, but neither of us had any idea we were doing it. That, combined with the insidious nature of EA's led to a situation where there wasn't really anything to tell until it was already to late. Today, with the benefit of hindsight and experience I would talk to my wife before I crossed a line, I just didn't see the line the first time until I had one foot over it and the OW standing there begging me to go ahead and step across with the second.


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## sunshinetoday (Mar 7, 2012)

*Re: Re: Why didn't you talk to me before you cheated?*



Acabado said:


> WOW


I took it to mean a lot of men still cheat even when the BW is meeting his needs. Which we all have read stories over and over again that the married couple is still having sex, and many times a wife uses that as a way to measure that the M is still good, and is shell shocked when she finds out he is cheating.


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## JustGrinding (Oct 26, 2012)

Cedarman said:


> . . . the WS does not really know they are THAT unhappy until they start their EA. THEN, all of a sudden their marriage is the worst thing in the world. It's a way they justify their infidelity and lack of character.


This.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

sigma1299 said:


> In my case I didn't realize I was missing anything until the OW appeared and suddenly started providing it. By the time I figured out I was in trouble I was already hooked on the crack pipe. My affair was an EA and I don't think this applies as much for PA's, it's easy to stretch and push boundaries in small steps in an EA. After all, how damaging can ONE conversation be? It's when you look back at the sum of many conversations that you realize somehow, something about the relationship changed. Unfortunately for me when I realized that I made the wrong choice, I was already in.


Sigma - you are lucky it did not turn into a PA, although I think just as damaging. You just didn't have to pay for STD testing 

In my case, I was the one communicating my needs were not being met. I was the one pointing out the breakdown of our marriage because we weren't spending enough quality time together. I was the one who felt taken advantage of. If he felt any of these things, he ddn't say it. He said we were fine. Even just a month before my hubs' affair began, he was saying we were fine - sending texts that he loved me. All it took was a few messages...then they add up, then they quickly move past the friendly stage.

After all of that, we have been in R for 10 months, almost 11. We are doing very well, HOWEVER, I am starting to feel cheated - like he needs to do more. When we were in false R, he kicked it up a notch with actions, but the feelings weren't there. Now the feelings are there, but he lacks the actions. I have pointed this out several times through our R. Frustrating. Maybe this needs to go on a different thread.


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## OrganizedChaos (Jan 23, 2013)

I have no idea why mine did honestly, besides her just wanting more then myself. Some people are just selfish and constantly need that feeling you get when being pursued, being wanted by more then just one person. 

The problem is they feel like its too late, or somehow its easier to start living a lie then to just look someone in the eye and attempt to fix a problem.


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## sigma1299 (May 26, 2011)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Sigma - you are lucky it did not turn into a PA, although I think just as damaging.


LFTS, you are oh so right. I've always filed this under "God protects fools and idiots" because right about the time the EA was really heating up the OW relocated from a little less than 100 miles away to over 600 miles away. Thereby making a PA next to impossible. I like to think that I wouldn't have crossed that line but if I'm totally honest I have to admit that I don't know that 100%. 

Regardless the fact that it didn't go PA is one the things I am very thankful for.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My wife did tell me before hand. So then it wasn't really cheating, was it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> My wife did tell me before hand. So then it wasn't really cheating, was it?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Did you say "Sure honey, anything that makes you happy"?

If not, then not only was it cheating, it was pissing on you.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

To tell the truth she tried. I saw it as nagging and dismissed it. 
Really anytime she wanted to talk about "us" I would shut down or ignore her.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> To tell the truth she tried. I saw it as nagging and dismissed it.
> Really anytime she wanted to talk about "us" I would shut down or ignore her.


Not a good thing to do.


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## joe kidd (Feb 8, 2011)

The Middleman said:


> Not a good thing to do.


Exactly. I really had a I don't need this crap attitude. I thought that she should be happy with the fact that I provide and came home every day. In past any attempt at talk always wound up as a pissing contest so I avoided it .


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

joe kidd said:


> Exactly. I really had a I don't need this crap attitude. I thought that she should be happy with the fact that I provide and came home every day. In past any attempt at talk always wound up as a pissing contest so I avoided it .


My stbxw didn't try to talk. But the thing is, IF she did, I would probably have had the same attitude as you. Yeah, it's not good. BUT: there are two general types of spouse - those that believe in marriage, so think that any problem can be overcome vs those who don't believe in marriage, so think that any problem is an excuse to cheat.

My stbxw probably would have cheated whether we talked or not. She is a cheater who doesn't know what a stable marriage looks like - she just suppressed it for 20 years. She didn't know that marriage is hard work. There are ups and downs. She never really thought our marriage would last - she even comes up with statements like "We were doomed from the start". This is because she thinks I led a charmed life vs her hardships. It's all rationalization bull crap. That's what cheaters do - rationalize their cheating.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

What I don't get (and I give up trying to), is hubs says how great we are together. And I agreed (when I thought we were great)....you know, "that couple" that finishes each others sentences, remembers every little detail of every date, laughs, blah, blah, blah. Then he started letting the dog sleep on our bed, then we had kids. We still had the greatness there, just othr things we chose to experience together (pets, children). Even now he says how great we are - how great we can be...so if we were/are so great, why would you cheat and then tell me you want a divorce? Because she didn't have dogs or kids? Who knows.


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## C-man (Oct 23, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> What I don't get (and I give up trying to), is hubs says how great we are together. And I agreed (when I thought we were great)....you know, "that couple" that finishes each others sentences, remembers every little detail of every date, laughs, blah, blah, blah. Then he started letting the dog sleep on our bed, then we had kids. We still had the greatness there, just othr things we chose to experience together (pets, children). Even now he says how great we are - how great we can be...so if we were/are so great, why would you cheat and then tell me you want a divorce? Because she didn't have dogs or kids? Who knows.


My stbxw and I were great together too. Even after kids, there were a few years where everything was great - new, exciting, fun. She used to talk about how lucky we were - how lucky she was.

NOW, if you ask my stbxw, we were NEVER great together.

I've given up trying to make sense of the cheater's mentality. They're insane in many ways.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


Most woman I know that have had affairs say this or some form of unhappiness, but most of the guys I know 2-3 including myself from back in the day do/did not.

The guys I know just look for a piece of "strange" every now and then no emotion, no longterm, just a little something different.

I was the same way it was always for variety!!


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

"Not getting needs met" is an easy target. It's hard to disprove since needs can be redefined to anything that was missing. The bottom line is no one cheating is maintaining high character or morals no matter the reason or excuse.

Not getting needs met can lead to a lot of troubles including disconnection, resentment, and divorce. It however can not be the reason for infidelity but only the excuse. That is unless someone didn't meet your needs by tieing you to the bed and sending in someone to enjoy. I have different definitions of that.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

Cedarman said:


> My stbxw and I were great together too. Even after kids, there were a few years where everything was great - new, exciting, fun. She used to talk about how lucky we were - how lucky she was.
> 
> NOW, if you ask my stbxw, we were NEVER great together.
> 
> I've given up trying to make sense of the cheater's mentality. They're insane in many ways.


Insane - yes - Great before affair, DD1 - "I don't want to spend the next 15 years like the last 15 years. I tried to think of reasons why I loved you and I couldn't think of any. Don't I deserve to be happy too?" (granted, he did say that he used her words a lot - but still, he said them...)


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

sunshinetoday said:


> I took it to mean a lot of men still cheat even when the BW is meeting his needs. Which we all have read stories over and over again that the married couple is still having sex, and many times a wife uses that as a way to measure that the M is still good, and is shell shocked when she finds out he is cheating.


That was the point of my own story, involving a WW instead a WH. 
Entitlement and greed is at the core a most cheaters. They want all, they won't renounce to anything. They will get the extra while denying your spouse the same courtesy. It's the cake eating lifestyle.
It's not a gender thing. At all. That was the point of my WOW.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> Sigma - you are lucky it did not turn into a PA, although I think just as damaging. You just didn't have to pay for STD testing
> 
> In my case, I was the one communicating my needs were not being met. I was the one pointing out the breakdown of our marriage because we weren't spending enough quality time together. I was the one who felt taken advantage of. If he felt any of these things, he ddn't say it. He said we were fine. Even just a month before my hubs' affair began, he was saying we were fine - sending texts that he loved me. All it took was a few messages...then they add up, then they quickly move past the friendly stage.
> 
> After all of that, we have been in R for 10 months, almost 11. We are doing very well, HOWEVER, I am starting to feel cheated - like he needs to do more. When we were in false R, he kicked it up a notch with actions, but the feelings weren't there. Now the feelings are there, but he lacks the actions. I have pointed this out several times through our R. Frustrating. Maybe this needs to go on a different thread.


THIS would be an EXCEllent thread LFTS! Do it. You and I could write a book on just this subject I'd bet.


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

You know...I am beginning to wonder...is it great just when he is not depressed/thinking about what he did? Is he lacking because he is in a funk? 

Maybe when he is depressed, he is not capable of seeing what is going on outside of himself? We did have a small arguement about that this past weekend. 

He acknowledged that he feels at times, that he doesn't think he deserves to move on. 

However, I am not punishing him and have fully accepted what has happened, but still, considering what happened, you would think that he would be more keenly aware of what he should be doing in addition to the right things. Yes, I am strong, but I am still a woman who has been through hell and back for him....I need more. What else can I do besides tell him that again? 

Hmmmmm....


CTU - which part should be the new thread?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> You know...I am beginning to wonder...is it great just when he is not depressed/thinking about what he did? Is he lacking because he is in a funk?
> 
> Maybe when he is depressed, he is not capable of seeing what is going on outside of himself? We did have a small arguement about that this past weekend.
> 
> ...


Lfts- can I suggest you have him read(you too) the difference between guilt and remorse.... sounds like he feels guilt and guilt is all about him.


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

@ LFTS

*After all of that, we have been in R for 10 months, almost 11. We are doing very well, HOWEVER, I am starting to feel cheated - like he needs to do more. When we were in false R, he kicked it up a notch with actions, but the feelings weren't there. Now the feelings are there, but he lacks the actions. I have pointed this out several times through our R. Frustrating. Maybe this needs to go on a different thread.*

This part.....


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

I know he feels both...But maybe now it is more guilt? I don't know. He is just having such a hard time accepting what he did and the hurt it caused right now, I think. He knows he did it, but it means that he is not the person he has portrayed and not the person everyone thought he was. Everyone thinks he is the best dad, and aside from what he did, and most recently, he is a great father. But, here is a point (not sure if it means anuthing), but our children don't know. So in their eyes, he is just their dad. Obviously I know, so I could be judgemental about everything - even though I am not, but I know. He knows. The other night as I lay on his chest he told me I was a good person. Don't ever change. I asked him this weekend what he meant by that. I didn't say anything then. He said that it just meant that I am a good and decent person. Just self-reflecting I guess?


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## canttrustu (Feb 22, 2012)

LookingForTheSun said:


> I know he feels both...But maybe now it is more guilt? I don't know. He is just having such a hard time accepting what he did and the hurt it caused right now, I think. He knows he did it, but it means that he is not the person he has portrayed and not the person everyone thought he was. Everyone thinks he is the best dad, and aside from what he did, and most recently, he is a great father. But, here is a point (not sure if it means anuthing), but our children don't know. So in their eyes, he is just their dad. Obviously I know, so I could be judgemental about everything - even though I am not, but I know. He knows. The other night as I lay on his chest he told me I was a good person. Don't ever change. I asked him this weekend what he meant by that. I didn't say anything then. He said that it just meant that I am a good and decent person. Just self-reflecting I guess?


Start that thread...I think we are Hj'ing here...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> Did you say "Sure honey, anything that makes you happy"?
> 
> If not, then not only was it cheating, it was pissing on you.


I did what I thought was right. And I am glad I did it. Also my comment was a little tongue in cheek. Can't do the ironic smiley on mobile! 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LookingForTheSun (Dec 28, 2011)

We are - so sorry!

Hey, I have to log off - gotta finish work - hubs just scored some NHL tickets for the family tonight...I trust you CTU to start a new thread or I can look at it tomorrow.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> I did what I thought was right. And I am glad I did it. Also my comment was a little tongue in cheek. Can't do the ironic smiley on mobile!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I knew it was Ironic but I was answering you honestly. I was not commenting on your decision.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

My WW did. It was just done in the worst possible ways that would pretty much insure her what was “wrong” wouldn’t be fixed and would insure our demise. Threats. All sorts of them including finding someone else and divorce. 

Add to it that even if I tried, she’d shift where the problem was, or nothing changed on my end except getting less and less while giving more and more. She’d even convince herself; to give me what I wanted was to be a doormat and manipulated into giving me it. So she gave nothing without a lot of malice behind it. 

So yes, she talked a lot prior to having affairs. Everything said was about how I was failing her. Everything I tried was rejected as an attempt to manipulate her. And she never evaluated herself and what she was bringing (and what little she did was given with a dose of spite and anger for ‘having to’)

God I hate talking about this stuff.... it is unimaginably hard to do without a lot of anger and rage at how stupid her ‘plan’ was to build the marriage. It could only lead to it’s demise and destruction: That was the only predictable outcome of her game. I hate those years. Zero happy memories.... only loathing.


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## Tired and hurt (Aug 9, 2014)

Miss Taken said:


> I think that had a lot to do with why my ex cheated too. I thanked him and showed appreciation for something on a daily basis (even the little things like doing the dishes), pursued him sexually and told him and others including his family and friends the things that I was attracted to or admired in him. It all fell on deaf ears.
> 
> He "needed" the validation from someone new because someone that's only known you for a short while, never seen you with the flu and has never had an argument with you is so much more valuable than someone that's known you for a decade, seen you at your worst and still has attraction, respect and admiration for you as a man.
> 
> My ex also didn't/doesn't try to talk and this won't change for the woman he's trying to be with now. He stonewalls and pouts instead of talking, says things like, "If you don't know I am not going to tell you.", diverts the conversation (distracts you from the facts/topic at hand by arguing about a word, tone or gesture made during the argument until you're so upset and tired about having wasted an hour talking about the usage of the word or whether or not you were yelling that you give up trying to discuss the original topic) and rug-sweeps everything he does or he's upset about you doing. He does it with every person he has a relationship with (friends, parents, siblings, etc.), did it to me and will do it to the next woman. Then he'll blame the communication problems on her because women are crazy.


Sounds exactly like my wife. I know the feeling. He obviously doesn't realise what he had.


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

In many affairs, they don't talk to you, because they are telling the new 'friend' all about the problems in your marriage.. some are true, some are overblown to justify crossing boundaries.. 

You are getting 10% of the story.. they never mention the new boyfriend or girlfriend, that would elevate the discussion a few notches. The new friend knows more than the BS knows..


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## alphaomega (Nov 7, 2010)

Tombstone thread


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Always a good topic though.. the 'tried to talk' topic. The talk always leaves out the vital information about the third party that's been introduced into the relationship.

I talked to my wife all the time about getting too friendly with men at work... How about those talks?


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

sigma1299 said:


> In my case I didn't realize I was missing anything until the OW appeared and suddenly started providing it. By the time I figured out I was in trouble I was already hooked on the crack pipe .


That is fairly typical in ANY relationship. Things drift, spouses accumulate many perceived wrongs and slights. Then along comes a fresh face, and it is like opening a window to a sunny day when you are in a stuffy old house.

What we ALL have to remember, though, is that there is no particular reason you can not "re-make" the existing marriage to provide this too. You need two to tango, but if you suddenly find yourself wanting to open that window, you had damned well better try "fixing" whatever is not clicking in the marriage first. Sometimes just saying "honey, I think we have a pretty good marriage. But I want a GREAT marriage...I was wondering what we could do to make it better...?" is all it takes to get started.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

For my WW it was another form of "attention deficit disorder". That is, not getting 100% of the attention all of the time. While dating, we'd see each other on weekends, and spend every moment together.

After marriage, parenthood, my wife expected the same. Something like me trying to mow the lawn or fix the car would trigger HUGE resentment in her; she'd then let that boil over into anger toward me. 

That is when she'd pick to talk about what bothered her. She'd complain I ignored her, etc. If I wasn't at work or asleep, I was with her and our child. Still, she'd complain that I wasn't devoting every moment to adoring and complimenting her.

Over the years she'd sometimes point out how one of her friend's husband does this or that with the wife. Invariably it would be some mega rich guy that travels 50% of the year, and was likely having affairs. Where are those folks now? Still working, traveling and paying mortgages.


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## Big Tree (Jul 25, 2014)

SaltInWound said:


> I think it would be better for a WS to say "Either we sit down and talk about this or I am filing for divorce so I can find someone else".
> 
> Sorry, there is absolutely no excuse for cheating.


:iagree:


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

Sometimes there really isn't anything wrong - everything may be great. However, the WS may want something different, a little variety - and goes for it. They're just a little selfish in not offering their spouse the same opportunity - perhaps because they'd object!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

C-man said:


> My own theory is that in some cases, the WS does not really know they are THAT unhappy until they start their EA. THEN, all of a sudden their marriage is the worst thing in the world. It's a way they justify their infidelity and lack of character.
> 
> I know this is true in my case. Yes, we had grown apart in the years when our kids were younger and all of our free time seemed to be doing parenting stuff instead of couple's stuff. I take full responsibility for not thinking enough about continually wooing my own wife. I was too damn busy being a father, apparently. Yet, we still had time at night together, we still had a healthy sex life. I left my wife at home on many weekends so that she could pursue her love of golf (a passion we both shared - in fact, I introduced her to the game and taught her how to play). Things worked for a few years. THEN, she met a guy in a tournament who flirted with her and made her blush. THEN, she texted him and the EA started. From that point forward, our marriage was basically doomed. Nothing in our marriage could compare to the thrill of her EA. The POSOM was always available to text, and he was free on weekends (having just left his wife and 3 year old and 1 year old daughters). Life wasn't "boring" with him. Everything in our marriage was all of a sudden the worst thing in the world.
> 
> So it wasn't a case of talking about unhappiness prior to the affair. It was a case of my stbxw "discovering" that she was unhappy as a way to justify her affair. Even now, our marriage gets worse and worse in her memory. It's like nothing good ever happened. Our beautiful home (our second), with the paid off mortgage, our married friends who we used to hang out with, all of our vacations - all of our Anniversary weekends. All the good times, all the shared experiences were apparently all a charade.


Her need to escalate the marriage bashing means she can't move on and be comfortable with what she has done. Is she still with posom? Doesn't sound like he is doing a very good job.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I guess every circumstance is different. With mine it was just pure selfishness on her part. I asked constantly, when she started pulling away, what was wrong. It was always nothing. Hugs and kisses stopped, still nothing. Then she drops the I want a divorce I have been unhappy for years....wtf are you talking about......let's go to counseling, no not interested.

So she played the mind game...told me it was I was controlling and didn't talk to her and blah blah blah She had me convinced that I was this horrible person who derailed my marriage....wtf I would think for hours on what she was talking about. When did we not talk? When did I control?

Then the truth comes out. All lies. She was having an affair, it was exciting, and she was lying blame shifting. 

The sexual affair hurt.....the emotional Mind game she played with me is what left scars I'm still dealing with. Point being I don't put a lot of stock in anything the WS is saying unless they are honestly owning their crap


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## HarryDoyle (Jan 19, 2013)

My WW was a cake eater. She wanted both; her AP and her marriage. It's a hard choice to end a marriage of 35 years so why make it. It's like if breakfast doesn't satisfy you, get something from the vending machine. It's not really good for you, but it sure taste good, even if you feel guilty afterwards. 

So there was nothing really to talk about in her mind. She knew I couldn't meet the "need" the POSOM was meeting, and he couldn't provide what I was providing. Win, win right?:scratchhead::scratchhead: She eventually found out that when you walk the fence, you eventually fall off. And it hurts. Everyone.


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## CuddleBug (Nov 26, 2012)

TNgirl232 said:


> Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.



Pretty much.

The only reason I'd cheat, is if my wifee still only wanted sex 1x month......she got it and its 1x week, and sometimes 3x week if I'm lucky.

But after talking and nothing really changes, years go on, I would be very weak and vulnerable and if some hottie hit on me and wanted more, I would be toast. The way I see it, either spouse are to take care of each others needs as their own and not themselves, otherwise, they are setting the stage for all this to happen......seen it happen before.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

CuddleBug said:


> Pretty much.
> 
> The only reason I'd cheat, is if my wifee still only wanted sex 1x month......she got it and its 1x week, and sometimes 3x week if I'm lucky.
> 
> But after talking and nothing really changes, years go on, I would be very weak and vulnerable and if some hottie hit on me and wanted more, I would be toast. The way I see it, either spouse are to take care of each others needs as their own and not themselves, otherwise, they are setting the stage for all this to happen......seen it happen before.


What a load of ****. "weak and vulnerable". I think you mean "selfish and cruel". Your spouse isn't responsible for taking care of every one of your needs - that's your responsibility.

If you're that unhappy, and expect someone else to meet every one of your needs, you *leave the marriage*, then go find that someone (and good luck with that).

Sounds like you're right ready to cheat if your "wifee" doesn't comply with your demands, and right ready to justify it, too.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

This has really made me think of my marriage before my WW's affair. In 2009 my WW had a miscarriage. I was on the bottom side of being an average husband. After the miscarriage I became a good husband but failed to communicate how I felt regarding the miscarriage. I fully supported my WW through the miscarriage. Sometime later she felt I was distant, and the marriage was over. Did not tell me this. Says she thought of MC, again not telling me. Had she told me I would have listened. WW did say not enough affection, holding hands, cuddling to which I made changes but too late. COMMUNICATION, I listen, react, apply changes. But that's not enough. WW had a six month affair. Had we communicated better this affair would not have happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## P51Geo1980 (Sep 25, 2013)

TNgirl232 said:


> Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.


I never cheated on my STBXW but I understands why some people would and it's exactly what TNgirl232 wrote. Many BSes are quick to take the moral high ground, expect the WS to do all the heavy lifting, and don't fix themselves or the relationship. Many of the BSes here need to tale a good long look at how they treated their spouse before the affair, sure the cheating isn't your fault, but you own at least 50% of why the relationship was failing.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I never cheated on my STBXW but I understands why some people would and it's exactly what TNgirl232 wrote. Many BSes are quick to take the moral high ground, expect the WS to do all the heavy lifting, and don't fix themselves or the relationship. Many of the BSes here need to tale a good long look at how they treated their spouse before the affair, sure the cheating isn't your fault, but you own at least 50% of why the relationship was failing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Depends on the relationship. Even my x would admit she personally pulled apart our marriage with her affair. I know sometimes the BS like to state they we're unhappy before the affair but plenty succumb to a moment of weakness , cheat, and then that ruins the marriage. Such was the case in my divorce and two of my friends.


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## soulpotato (Jan 22, 2013)

P51Geo1980 said:


> *Many BSes are quick to take the moral high ground, expect the WS to do all the heavy lifting, and don't fix themselves or the relationship.*


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Happened just like that in my situation. And it doesn't work. The BS has to be willing at some point to work on their own issues and the relationship problems if reconciliation is to be successful. Otherwise there's simply no point.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


Well, my wife did. I mean, she did tell me before she cheated.

She told me it wasn't my fault, that it was just something she had to do. Unfinished business (or something) with an ex-boyfriend.

But that she loved me and would come back to me.

And she did.


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## dignityhonorpride (Jan 2, 2014)

Healer said:


> What a load of ****. "weak and vulnerable". I think you mean "selfish and cruel". Your spouse isn't responsible for taking care of every one of your needs - that's your responsibility.
> 
> If you're that unhappy, and expect someone else to meet every one of your needs, you *leave the marriage*, then go find that someone (and good luck with that).
> 
> Sounds like you're right ready to cheat if your "wifee" doesn't comply with your demands, and right ready to justify it, too.


To add to this... what if the reason your "wifee" didn't want sex more than 1x/mo was because of a need of _hers_ that you were consistently failing to meet? Wives have needs too, ya know. I bet "wifees" do too. 

And why would you wait around for "a hottie" to hit on you rather than being honest with yourself and your wife about your unhappiness and filing for divorce, and then facing (and overcoming) the challenge of living alone and growing and improving as a person and a potential significant other?


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## lovelyblue (Oct 25, 2013)

_If you you weren't getting your needs met, why didn't you tell ME before you cheated? _

-(I never cheated but in my situation)-

IDK how many times or how many differents ways. I tried to explain to him what I needed and what I wanted and how to give it to me..

I got tried of it and just said f**k it funny enough when OG-(other guys) started paying me attention he did what I was asking.

_Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening._

Happened to me.

I would be trying giving 100% got tired of it OG's started giving me what I wanted he saw it and all of a sudden he woke up.


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## sammy3 (Jun 5, 2011)

My h said he did come to me. He said he wanted to be closer to me. That he was lonely and on the road by himself. Wanted me to go on trips with him, like we use to do when we were younger. 

I was going thur a really hard time myself at that time. Physically I was sufferring, going to doctors for treatments, dealing with a diabetic dog, son was still in high school, parents aging and very sick. 
Airline industry collapsing at the time, I was doing everything I could to keep him from sinking farther into his own depression, except drop everything and fly away with him. Guess I learned, as he met someone else that gladly took my place... 

And it's all turned around on me now, as I ended up being the one thought of as not able to forgive, that the marriage must not have meant that much in the first place to me, that I didnt fight for him, that all that he did for me for the past 28 yrs wasnt valved, that I just couldnt understand that he was flawed, and he never stopped loving me and that his love towards me is unconditional where mine is conditional...


...and now I am hearing,"It's been so long ago, cant you forget?"

~sammy


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## Rugs (Apr 12, 2013)

My husband barely touched me and never communicated with me. This started THE VERY DAY we were married. It could be a movie of the week kind of thing. 

I tried for years to talk only to be ignored. I thought my husband was gay, I thought he was mad because of his job, I thought, I talked......

I was talking to a stone person. 

You would think I would give up and cheat or divorce but nope, he was cheating on me. I was home doing everything with the house, kids, family, and he was tuned out from day one. 

Very sad. If he would have said anything, it would have been better than the indifference he showed to me. I made a fast and bad choice to marry.


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## alexm (Nov 29, 2008)

My ex wife never talked to me about what was missing before her affair, either.

To make things worse, she never spoke to me about the "why's" afterwards, either.

I never had any closure, and everything happened so quickly. It took me years to wrap my brain around it, even when I had moved on.

It went from us being on vacation and having a good time, to returning home and 2 days later her telling me she was leaving, with no real explanation. Got the "love you, but not IN love with you". All of 30 seconds to break up with me after 14 years, 7 married. Together from late teens until early 30's.

She moved out a few days later, and the only time we ever sat down and talked was ~4 months later when she said she was moving to Europe because that's where her BF lived. Didn't even cop to this guy being around before we broke up, I had to put the pieces together myself and dig around. When I figured it out, she was already gone, so only contact was through email. She only responded once with something like "I've known him for 2 years, spoke through email and message boards, we fell in love, sorry", then she blocked me. Divorce and everything else was handled by the lawyer, with "important" information being relayed to me via her father.

Obviously bothered me that she had been having an affair, but it made it SO much worse that she never gave me any closure whatsoever after she was gone, even though it would have all been through email. Talk about her making me feel completely worthless.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Married but Happy said:


> Sometimes there really isn't anything wrong - everything may be great. However, the WS may want something different, a little variety - and goes for it. They're just a little selfish in not offering their spouse the same opportunity - perhaps because they'd object!


That sounds just like what I have read about why men in particular cheat.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

alexm said:


> My ex wife never talked to me about what was missing before her affair, either.
> 
> To make things worse, she never spoke to me about the "why's" afterwards, either.
> 
> ...


 
So, it must be extra tough to hear that on top of all this you: "own at least 50% of why the relationship was failing." (sarcasm)


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

jld said:


> That sounds just like what I have read about why men in particular cheat.


And women. 

But maybe they just need to have the emotional side of the attraction be "safe" as well. Men don't need that.. they feel safe around most women. 

Perhaps the seduction takes longer and has more to do with perceived intimacy, but it still comes down to wanting to explore something different.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

staystrong said:


> And women.
> 
> But maybe they just need to have the emotional side of the attraction be "safe" as well. Men don't need that.. they feel safe around most women.
> 
> Perhaps the seduction takes longer and has more to do with perceived intimacy, but it still comes down to wanting to explore something different.


I guess that is not reflective of what I have read, though it certainly seems it could have some truth to it. What I have read is that men can be perfectly happy with their wives, but still enjoy variety on the side. Women who have affairs tend to feel unsatisfied with their husbands emotionally.

I have read this many times, and I am not sure why it is considered controversial. It does not justify cheating. It just helps understand it.

Why women cheat vs Why men cheat

ETA: I have heard that male cheaters often continue to have sex with their wives, while female cheaters are usually loyal to their affair partners. Why do some on TAM insist on seeing cheating as the same for both sexes? 

Yes, there may be some overlap, but what percent? I think there are differences, and I do not understand the resistance to this. It does not justify cheating for women. Is that the concern? That somehow women are getting off too easy?


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## Pluto2 (Aug 17, 2011)

jld said:


> I guess that is not reflective of what I have read, though it certainly seems it could have some truth to it. What I have read is that men can be perfectly happy with their wives, but still enjoy variety on the side. Women who have affairs tend to feel unsatisfied with their husbands emotionally.
> 
> I have read this many times, and I am not sure why it is considered controversial. It does not justify cheating. It just helps understand it.
> 
> ...


Again? I saw this argument in another thread JLD, and you are either very persistent or very stubborn.

In my office there were two professional women who had affairs, one ended in divorce and one didn't. I can say, having spoken to them both, they both had affairs to get wild sex. You just can't throw an entire gender into one neat theory, we are all different that way.

As to the original premise, I tried till I was blue in the face to talk to my ex, both about our problems and his many issues. I tried MC, IC, getting treatment for his ailments. His lies were too pervasive. I did not shut him out, he shut us out.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Pluto2 said:


> Again? I saw this argument in another thread JLD, and you are either very persistent or very stubborn.
> 
> In my office there were two professional women who had affairs, one ended in divorce and one didn't. I can say, having spoken to them both, they both had affairs to get wild sex. You just can't throw an entire gender into one neat theory, we are all different that way.


I did say there may be some overlap. But I have read this "theory" so many places it is hard to discount it.

Why the insistence on the sexes cheating for the same reasons?

Actually, I will just start a thread on it.


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## nikoled (Mar 12, 2014)

My WH claims that he thought our marriage was over. Ummm...news to me?!?! He regrets it now. He regrets that he didn't come talk to me about it. He didn't think id be receptive to MC for no reason at all. I think he was broken and vulnerable and was approached by someone as broken as he was and they bonded. The whole thing was pretty pathetic and he's very ashDmed if it now. Our marriage was not perfect. We had grown apart but it dl so seemed typical of oeople with kids the age of ours. It was a busy time and our marriage had taken back burner to kids, job, sports, etc. I wish he would have talked to me. He wishes that too now!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## melw74 (Dec 12, 2013)

This for me is the big question..... This is why i do not think there is any excuse for cheating, It can be avoided by talking, there just is no other excuse.... sorry if i offend anyone, but i am just being truthful....

You have the urge to cheat.... Please give your reasons, tell me there is a problem so i can least try to do something about it.....

I always tell my children, you have a problem talk to me about it.

Cheating is just selfish, Plain and simple for me.

A person needs to know whats wrong in the relationship so they have the chance to change the things that are wrong.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


Remember all affairs are different. The guys I know that "play" aren't cheating because their wife isn't giving up the booty it's because they crave a "piece of strange" every so often. 

How they justify that is their own business. It's variety from what I see more like a "side chick", "booty call", a "hook up".

It's not often......every 30-60 days, a business trip, and not always either.


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## manticore (Sep 3, 2013)

Vega said:


> I know that quite often the WS will give a whole slew of 'reasons' for cheating. Much of what they say is that they "weren't getting their needs met".
> 
> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> ...


sorry but no answer here will satisfy you, and there is a simple reason, WSs cheat because they want, not because they have reasons.

reasons in what they eloborate once it has happened, but if there is people who choose divorce before cheating, then of course any WS could have done the same, is just that they didn't want divorce at the moment of the cheating they wanted to cake eat.


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## OhGeesh (Jan 5, 2010)

dignityhonorpride said:


> To add to this... what if the reason your "wifee" didn't want sex more than 1x/mo was because of a need of _hers_ that you were consistently failing to meet? Wives have needs too, ya know. I bet "wifees" do too.
> 
> And why would you wait around for "a hottie" to hit on you rather than being honest with yourself and your wife about your unhappiness and filing for divorce, and then facing (and overcoming) the challenge of living alone and growing and improving as a person and a potential significant other?


I know for me I would cheat a million times before getting divorced once!! Why because I've busted my ass for 20 years.......BS if I'm giving 1/2 of it away on "principle".

I hope I never get to that point, but trust me if I was unhappy in my marriage, I would be a TOOL and cheat before being NOBLE and filing for the big D.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

OhGeesh said:


> Remember all affairs are different. The guys I know that "play" aren't cheating because their wife isn't giving up the booty it's because they crave a "piece of strange" every so often.
> 
> How they justify that is their own business. It's variety from what I see more like a "side chick", "booty call", a "hook up".
> 
> It's not often......every 30-60 days, a business trip, and not always either.


That sounds like what I read in that article from cheaterville: Why women cheat vs Why men cheat


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

Pluto2 said:


> In my office there were two professional women who had affairs, one ended in divorce and one didn't. I can say, having spoken to them both, they both had affairs to get wild sex.


but getting back to the OP's original question. If your wife asked you, in no uncertain terms, for the "Wild Sex" they were thinking about having an affair to get, wouldn't that constitute "talking to me before you cheated?"

It would have to be a clear discussion, not ILYBNILWY, but more on the lines of "I need more kinky and wild sex, and unless you are going to start providing it for me, I will have to get it elsewhere.....". But that clearly is what the spouse SHOULD say before cheating. 

Hey they might get back a "no, I'm too tired, but here is a hall pass....", or they might get back a "oh ****, I did not realize...lets hop in bed right now....tell me what you want"

It seems like the whole "cheating" thing revolves around two factors, hiding/lying to your spouse, and screwing other people without permission. Both of those conditions are not met if you simply ask first.


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## staystrong (Sep 15, 2012)

Many women aren't able to tell their spouses they want kinky and wild sex. They might not know they want it until an OM comes along who makes them feel sexy again. Perhaps they are in a routine and are talked into taking a walk on the wild side. My guess is that some of them start up with their hubbies when they notice an attraction to OM, but are less than satisfied or the excitement goes up to the level they want to know what OM can do too.

But let's not preoccupy ourselves too much with the minds of cheaters. It's not like they really know what they are doing or would tell you if they did. They are selfish and manipulative, and you have to think strategically with them until their fog lifts.


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## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

But you can try to learn from them, to avoid cheating in your own relationship, right?


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

If guys cheat, they are studs, tough guys that get lots of tail..

If a woman cheats, she's tramp and a s word...

So when they get caught, the woman needs to do much more damage control than the man, so the woman has many more 'reasons' than the man. So the world over generations has become used to hearing how women cheat for attention, because if the cheated for strange, they'd be ho's...

The world has been gas lit to believe that women that cheat are in it for the attention.. and men want sex. The image control works, just like the mass blame shift has convinced the world that when a women cheats, it's often because her husband wasn't a good husband or was too beta. She was pure and wholesome, and the bad male pursued her and broke her down in here weakened state. She was broken and taken advantage of. Men do the same thing, wife didn't give enough sex.. etc.. etc..

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it always does. There are women that cheat for sex, and women that cheat for ego, and men that do both too.. Cheating is about the ability to lie to yourself and people that love you and not have any issue with it. It's about power and control over another person. It's about keeping that dirty dark secret with someone else. It's about the sex and the attention for both men and women. 

Both sides just spin it differently.


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

I guess I'd have to concede that some WS do try and talk about things. Usually something like this:

WS: (arrives home, toddler runs to them, crying): Why does toddler always have to cry when I get home?

BS: I don't know, just one of those kid things. Dinner is almost ready.

WS: Why is toddler wearing those socks? You know those are only to be worn with shoes on....(now calling from toddler's room) Where are the socks from Old Navy? Did you put them away?

BS: Yes, in the drawer, with all the other socks.

WS: The Old Navy socks go in the basket, not in the drawer. I hate it when you put things away. What is for dinner?

BS: Spaghetti.

WS: You remember we are going to the Cleaver's after dinner, right? Now toddler will have spaghetti stains all over her cheeks. Where is my hair stuff?

BS: On that rack with all the brushes.

WS: It goes on the counter, or else I can't find it in the mornings. Can you just leave things alone? Why is toddler still crying, did she have her snack? What did she have?

BS: Apples and peanut butter.

WS: Again? Don't you think she might be getting tired of that?

BS: Seems to like it.

WS: I know. I meant maybe you should give her some variety. Did you pick up my prescription?

BS: Uh-oh. Forgot, but I can go after dinner.

WS: (slamming hair brush on counter) It was ONE THING I asked you to do, and you don't pay any attention. But then, you never pay any attention, do you? Why do I have to tell you this all the time? You never say anything complimentary, or look my way. Its like we're roommates. You do your thing, I do mine....(further screeching for several minutes)...You used to adore me, now (sobs) its like you don't care.

BS: I still adore you. Every night when you're asleep....


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

TNgirl232 said:


> Some try and are shut down by the other spouse....then we stop trying as they aren't listening.


I wonder if the BS would listen if the WS said

"Either you listen or I'm going to bang another Man/Woman and ride them like I stole them!"


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Vega said:


> So my question to the WS is...
> 
> If you you weren't getting your needs met, why didn't you *tell *ME _before_ you cheated?


But they did tell you. Haven't you been paying attention?

They told us numerous times, therefore their cheating at that point was on us. 

We didn't listen, oh well, too bad for us.

With the exception of maybe one or two WSs here, they will tell you that they tried to communicate until they were blue in the face all the while throwing up disclaimers that they are not blaming their spouse for their decision to cheat.......while blaming their spouse for their decision to cheat.


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## murphy5 (May 1, 2014)

staystrong said:


> Many women aren't able to tell their spouses they want kinky and wild sex. They might not know they want it until an OM comes along who makes them feel sexy again. Perhaps they are in a routine and are talked into taking a walk on the wild side. My guess is that some of them start up with their hubbies when they notice an attraction to OM, but are less than satisfied or the excitement goes up to the level they want to know what OM can do too..


Nah, i'm not buying that. Lets say wife is close to a hot guy at work, but thinks nothing sexual of the relationship, purely business. Then something happens, a business trip together, hubby forgets their anniversary, etc She starts to suddenly think "hey, Fred is pretty hot...and he really likes to hang around me. In fact...OMG, he is hitting on me".

At that point she can either say "Fred, come up to my hotel room for a night cap", OR resolve to have "the talk" with hubby the moment she gets back home to lay out the "I need more and kinkier sex". 

It is ALL up to her choice. sure, she can be lead to the tough...but she does NOT have to drink that forbidden water just yet. She CAN give hubby another couple tries at it.....


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## awake1 (Jan 29, 2013)

I believe in most cases someone chooses to cheat, then fabricates reasons as justification to their friends or themselves. Before all that, they are on some level open to cheating.

Some people are just willing to stray, and some are not, no matter the situation. If that's the case, and I think most agree it's true, then it doesn't matter the cause. The reasons are a smoke screen to mask a character flaw. That's not to say that "flaw" can't be fixed however, or that someone is ALWAYS going to cheat. 

It's just that some people will cheat, and of those people, they have to at some point make the decision to cheat. The reason they choose to is less a factor than their actual willingness to do the cheating itself. 

I've come to this conclusion based on my own experience and the threads and stories i've read here and elsewhere.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

the "reasons" are not WHY they cheat...they cheat because they are flawed and broken...the "reasons" are just the excuses or justification...

same thing when they choose to R...all of a sudden this fat lazy unattentive spouse is wonderful again...pathetic really


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

murphy5 said:


> Nah, i'm not buying that. Lets say wife is close to a hot guy at work, but thinks nothing sexual of the relationship, purely business. Then something happens, a business trip together, hubby forgets their anniversary, etc She starts to suddenly think "hey, Fred is pretty hot...and he really likes to hang around me. In fact...OMG, he is hitting on me".
> 
> At that point she can either say "Fred, come up to my hotel room for a night cap", OR resolve to have "the talk" with hubby the moment she gets back home to lay out the "I need more and kinkier sex".
> 
> It is ALL up to her choice. sure, she can be lead to the tough...but she does NOT have to drink that forbidden water just yet. She CAN give hubby another couple tries at it.....


..or, she doesn't sleep with Fred, but then goes home, tells the husband "I'm not happy", he's like "huh? where did this come from"? and she's like "nowhere, I'm fine.. nevermind". and then when she gets caught cheating with Fred at the next conference, she says "I told you I wasn't happy, I tried to talk.. you didn't listen to me".


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## Dad&Hubby (Aug 14, 2012)

P51Geo1980 said:


> I never cheated on my STBXW but I understands why some people would and it's exactly what TNgirl232 wrote. Many BSes are quick to take the moral high ground, expect the WS to do all the heavy lifting, and don't fix themselves or the relationship. Many of the BSes here need to tale a good long look at how they treated their spouse before the affair, sure the cheating isn't your fault, but you own at least 50% of why the relationship was failing.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Here's the problem though. What order do you address things?

If someone is an alcoholic who gets drunk one night, gets into a car accident, drives into a tree and mangles their legs.

Do you send them to an AA meeting or the hospital...and then after the hospital, physical and mental therapy to learn to live again without their legs?

Yes, they'll eventually need to go to AA, but after they're stable enough to deal with it.

I equate cheating because of problems like this.

You child has a dog and it's the child's responsibility to clean up the poop in the yard. Your child is lazy about it and you keep stepping in poop. After about a year..you get sick of talking and punishing your child so you take the cheaters solution and whip out your shot gun and shoot the dog.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

In my case...ya my old lady tried talking, I wouldn't listen, she screwed around, we swept it under the rug nothing changed.

I take that back things did change the marriage got worse with lots of bad behaviors, but the sex was still good...hell that's all we really had. As long as I got mine first I didn't give a damn about my old lady. I went my way and she went her way....but at the end of the day...or I should say in the morning she would come home.

After 19 year of not being married to my wife (get it?) the crap just started getting down right dangerous and unhealthy her-ending up missing and me-in jail). That's when *I* did the talking...my old lady listened and we took the steps to be emotionally healthier people.

So ya , in the begining she did try to talk, but in the end it was me that had the final word and took the bull by the horns and it was up to her to come along or not.

This was 4...almost 5 yrs ago...this new marriage sure beats the old one....man that was some phucked up sh1t we did to each other!


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## FAMILYGONE (Aug 20, 2014)

Mine didn't say a word or talk to me either. TELLING me it didn't work out after 13.5 years.NEWS to me when a week before it fine week after finding out she cheating. But at one time we was a family,and now all of its gone.And when you have a child it worse..


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

The best answers I got to this question: She felt relationships worked on their own merit and no work or maintenance was required, and she didn't feel like she could talk to me about everything. I did talk to her before the affair escalated, because I noticed a change. Nothing real came out of her mouth at that time. When a cheater is in that mindset, many times they don't want to talk about it with their spouse. They want what they want, and then they seek to justify it.

Even if she had tried to talk to me, and I rebuked her, how does that justify anything? She still had less despicable options than having an affair. Bring the issue up again, say it like you mean it, or divorce if it comes to that. If you're willing to put it all on the line for an affair, then why not put it all on the line for your marriage? Because that's hard, and it doesn't feel good. An affair is the easy, feel-good (at the time) way out.


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## FAMILYGONE (Aug 20, 2014)

WOLF1974: Same was done and said to me a copy of yours.A pattern going on you think ?


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

I think the reason the WS doesn't talk is because it wouldn't go down well. For example - 

WS - I've met a man/woman I like and want to have an affair with. Is that ok?

I can't see any way that would work. And that is the reason majority of people have affairs. Its not the crap they spew at the BS when they are caught out.


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