# I dont want to get divorced



## Get Real

I do not know what to think. I have had many years of a marriage in which we live more like roommates. No really talking; he is always doing his stuff, we do not kiss because he smokes so he does not want to kiss me. He is alway working in the garage or just in the garage, we do not really talk about anything that matters, any confrontation and he walks away, he smokes, his teeth are dark and he lost one and the two others next to it are affected. Quite noticeable when he smiles. He drinks monster drinks and eats cookies and such. He suffers from depression and it has gotten worse and we are intimate but with no relationship and the admiration worn out it has been mostly duty. His normal state is in a bad mood, not talking, asking me to leave the room because I am a frigid B** A few months ago I had enough and I do not want to be intimate unless he gives me back the person I married. He is in there, just covered in, excuse my language, but covered in crap.

He was an ideal husband, exercised, ate healthy, spend lots of time with me... then I started working shifts and things started changing to never go back. I only had that job for 2 years. Recently things were very rough. He would spend entire days watching TV no shower, depressed, sleeping. Again, I can not talk to him I was just holding the house. Eventually he did tell me that we needed to separate. I had contacted someone in his family earlier and they happened to want to talk to him that day. An almost 90 years old uncle that wanted to be a priest and is a super guy. I told him sure you can talk to him. But my husband never answered and blew his top. He told me I had embarrassed him in front of everyone he had nothing left!!! Oh my gosh it got really bad. I tried to tell him that his uncle was a good man and old.. ANyway, he asked me to leave the room. Then he got up took a shower left and came back 20 minutes later a new man.!!!!!

Like we had not gone to hell and back for the past few days. I told him that I thought it was unfair that he knew what was happening and made me go through all that. I talked about our history. Next morning he said he would make it up to me somehow. I texted him and he actually replied with thought. I was glad but skeptical. I suggested we went to see someone but he said he had listened to me. No more upset husband. This was short of a miracle. A few days later he wanted us to be intimate again and I went along although his changes were significant but no fixing teeth, no real communication, no exercise, I felt as if he just wanted to patch things up. But I was afraid to see him right back into it. Yesterday I refused again, I was working and tired and we are back into hell mode.

I told him he has changed but I am still waiting for when he gets cancer like his dad and then what. I had the silent treatment again today and I am sure for the rest of the week and this weekend like today he will watch TV for the entire weekend, while my daughter sees that.

I want him back! He is there, he is a good man. I hope someone here knows what he did, what is going on, and can give me some pointers. I have been at the end of my rope for a long time. I just take a lot, but I am worn out, the rope is torn, I need a real fix. Yes, I should have done something sooner but I tried. I just have never wanted a divorce. I come from divorced parents. I am almost 50 what would I do out there. The lives my divorced friends have is scary. One just got married to an old childhood friend. She was lucky.

And I love him. He is indeed a good guy just deep inside right now. And for a long time now


----------



## As'laDain

it sounds like you both are harboring a lot of resentment for failing to meet each others needs. 

he probably isnt feeling it yet. you want him to be a happy husband for you, he wants a wife that desires him. so, if he can change his behavior and fake it till he makes it, then you should probably do the same. basically, don't turn him down, and be enthusiastic as you can, until both of you are comfortable with the changes. 

if you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, then why should he believe that anything will get better? if he has to jump through hoops for an indeterminate amount of time just to get his own needs met, then why should he believe that it will ever even happen?

basically, what i am saying is that if you want him to keep putting effort into meeting your needs and making the changes that you want, then you had better keep putting in the effort to meet his needs and making the changes HE wants.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

I don’t think you’ve had a real marriage or been a real wife for a long time now. Just let the poor guy go so he can find someone who’s into him. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected]

Get Real said:


> we do not kiss because he smokes so he does not want to kiss me.


Could you clarify this please? 

Generally it is the non-smoking partner that does not want to kiss the smoking partner. So do you mean that he's been told you don't like to kiss when he smokes? Or does he use smoking as an excuse not to kiss?

I'm big on kissing. Sounds like you would like to enjoy a lot more of it.


----------



## chillymorn69

Get his teeth fix and some nicoret gum.

He sounds depressed 

Hows his job?

Does he drink?


----------



## RandomDude

[email protected] said:


> Could you clarify this please?
> 
> Generally it is the non-smoking partner that does not want to kiss the smoking partner. So do you mean that he's been told you don't like to kiss when he smokes? Or does he use smoking as an excuse not to kiss?
> 
> I'm big on kissing. Sounds like you would like to enjoy a lot more of it.


Probably because he knows he smells and tastes disgusting for the non-smoker.

Like a woman doesn't want a man near her parts during her period or a man not wanting a woman near his parts if he's not washed.


----------



## Get Real

He hides to smoke, He has tried quitting but can't and you are right. He does not want me to kiss him.


----------



## Get Real

I would gt his teeth fixed if I could. He would not even go to the dentist when I kept making appoitnments earlier on. He went from going with me to never going.


----------



## Get Real

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don’t think you’ve had a real marriage or been a real wife for a long time now. Just let the poor guy go so he can find someone who’s into him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Earlier on I thougth he had someone. I used to have to trick him into being with me earlier on. I told him it would be him the one who would say it. This time he said it but then he had a miraculous change. You are right it has not been what it should be but I think it has to do with his depression and something else that I do not know what it is. He loves me and his kids, we are his pride. If I knew that being without me would help him I would have left him. Once when we moved he was about 2-3 weeks without us and he is not one to like to be alone. I think he lets go even more.
It is complicated


----------



## Get Real

As'laDain said:


> it sounds like you both are harboring a lot of resentment for failing to meet each others needs.
> 
> he probably isnt feeling it yet. you want him to be a happy husband for you, he wants a wife that desires him. so, if he can change his behavior and fake it till he makes it, then you should probably do the same. basically, don't turn him down, and be enthusiastic as you can, until both of you are comfortable with the changes.
> 
> if you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, then why should he believe that anything will get better? if he has to jump through hoops for an indeterminate amount of time just to get his own needs met, then why should he believe that it will ever even happen?
> 
> basically, what i am saying is that if you want him to keep putting effort into meeting your needs and making the changes that you want, then you had better keep putting in the effort to meet his needs and making the changes HE wants.


He was more than perfect. He is not very happy obviously with his depression. He made too many changes when he married me. Not because I asked him but because he just did. We dated a very short time. I knew he smoked and he knew I hated it but he always hid it and at the time I guess he chewed gum or I am not sure what he did but we did kiss. From my view point it is hard to see the man you love running a train that is sure to fail and just leave him. At the same time I am in the train as well. If I did not see a good man in him it would be a different story. In his family there are all sorts of interesting relationships. He has been on his own from a very early age. His dad was an alcoholic and a smoker, and it was difficult. He is following the same footsteps but I could not say he is an alcoholic. We do have a refrigerator with beer in the back. But I think it is only used when we have guests. He also has hard licor. I just do not see him drink or drunk. 

I believe that if he went to a real psychiatrist. Not the drug giving person he goes to. And we had some couseling, things could turn around. He should want to change. We went to someone really early on and he thought that person was not on his side. Which was not true. He just cant take criticism. Something is going to happen one way or the other and indeed it maybe that we get divorced. I am pretty much done waiting and hoping and I think this time he needs to take some real steps. I know he may fail but not just do what he thinks he should do but do what needs to be done. Having intimacy with someone means you share your life with that person not using her as something else to feel good and keep on trucking with all your nonsense. 

He is very strong willed and unless he underestands and wants to do something, it will not happen. He just walks away. He is smart I just think he can not see himself as other than a good provider and a loving husband. He does not want to acknowledge reality. Like the son of most alcoholics. They want to portray a picture perfect life when it is not.


----------



## Get Real

Get Real said:


> He was more than perfect. He is not very happy obviously with his depression. He made too many changes when he married me. Not because I asked him but because he just did. We dated a very short time. I knew he smoked and he knew I hated it but he always hid it and at the time I guess he chewed gum or I am not sure what he did but we did kiss. From my view point it is hard to see the man you love running a train that is sure to fail and just leave him. At the same time I am in the train as well. If I did not see a good man in him it would be a different story. In his family there are all sorts of interesting relationships. He has been on his own from a very early age. His dad was an alcoholic and a smoker, and it was difficult. He is following the same footsteps but I could not say he is an alcoholic. We do have a refrigerator with beer in the back. But I think it is only used when we have guests. He also has hard licor. I just do not see him drink or drunk.
> 
> I believe that if he went to a real psychiatrist. Not the drug giving person he goes to. And we had some couseling, things could turn around. He should want to change. We went to someone really early on and he thought that person was not on his side. Which was not true. He just cant take criticism. Something is going to happen one way or the other and indeed it maybe that we get divorced. I am pretty much done waiting and hoping and I think this time he needs to take some real steps. I know he may fail but not just do what he thinks he should do but do what needs to be done. Having intimacy with someone means you share your life with that person not using her as something else to feel good and keep on trucking with all your nonsense.
> 
> He is very strong willed and unless he underestands and wants to do something, it will not happen. He just walks away. He is smart I just think he can not see himself as other than a good provider and a loving husband. He does not want to acknowledge reality. Like the son of most alcoholics. They want to portray a picture perfect life when it is not.


Oh, I also did meet his needs. That is what I have done for a long time. It does not feel good to be used. He is not trying to use me but how would you feel if you are with someone and then that is it. You do not talk, unless is superficial stuff. He is stuck in the garage. You do not kiss, things are not real. People need to argue and compromise and spend time with each other for something other than sex and not be upset at the drop of a hat, not be rude at the drop of a hat. Plan life...


----------



## sandcastle

Get Real said:


> I would gt his teeth fixed if I could. He would not even go to the dentist when I kept making appoitnments earlier on. He went from going with me to never going.


You get his teeth fixed-

Whole set of quality veneers will cost 50k.


Don't go toilet bowl white.

The entire process for all teeth is about 2 months.

Happy trails to you!


----------



## [email protected]

Get Real said:


> [ I knew he smoked and he knew I hated it but he always hid it and at the time I guess he chewed gum or I am not sure what he did but we did kiss.


Alright, that is finally clear. You hate it. 

The way you phrased it at first, you made it sound like HE is the one who hates kissing someone's clean mouth after he smokes. 

You don't just hate it for the taste. It's the whole health thing, the inability to conquer it, the deception, and the money too. 

Pretending to be someone other than you are when it's so brilliantly clear you aren't that person at all - it wears on a person. He's full of resentment. 

You don't kiss a person you resent.


----------



## Get Real

[email protected] said:


> Alright, that is finally clear. You hate it.
> 
> The way you phrased it at first, you made it sound like HE is the one who hates kissing someone's clean mouth after he smokes.
> 
> You don't just hate it for the taste. It's the whole health thing, the inability to conquer it, the deception, and the money too.
> 
> Pretending to be someone other than you are when it's so brilliantly clear you aren't that person at all - it wears on a person. He's full of resentment.
> 
> You don't kiss a person you resent.


I did not tell him anything. He knew I hated smoking but really it was not an issue because I never felt it, he never did it in front of me. I did not ask him to quit. 

We did kiss while we were dating and early on in marriage. He was a good kisser. Some day as he went to work he started kissing me good bye in the forehead. I would tell him. I am not your daughter? What are you doing?, he would just smile and it just kept on going like that. 

I do not know why he quit. I assume this happened about the same time he started smoking again. But I do not know for sure. 

Let's say he did not like the way I kissed. So he could have kissed me with a brief kiss like on the forehead. But I did complain about the forehead so it stopped all together. He is not one to discuss. He walks away.


----------



## Get Real

[email protected] said:


> Alright, that is finally clear. You hate it.
> 
> The way you phrased it at first, you made it sound like HE is the one who hates kissing someone's clean mouth after he smokes.
> 
> You don't just hate it for the taste. It's the whole health thing, the inability to conquer it, the deception, and the money too.
> 
> Pretending to be someone other than you are when it's so brilliantly clear you aren't that person at all - it wears on a person. He's full of resentment.
> 
> You don't kiss a person you resent.


I do think you are right and he is full of resentment but if he were to bring himself up to talk then he may find out that his resentment is invalid and the movie he has on his head to be OK with himself is not based in truth. If he ever truly finds out what has gone on for so long. He would have a really hard time with himself because this is not the person at all he would have wanted to be. I think he realized a bit recently but it is forgotten by now.


----------



## Get Real

Get Real said:


> I do think you are right and he is full of resentment but if he were to bring himself up to talk then he may find out that his resentment is invalid and the movie he has on his head to be OK with himself is not based in truth. If he ever truly finds out what has gone on for so long. He would have a really hard time with himself because this is not the person at all he would have wanted to be. I think he realized a bit recently but it is forgotten by now.


I am sorry for all these replies. I just anwered too quickly. He stopped kissing me 18 year ago. And we were doing well then. We went from magical bliss to slowly but surely deteriorating and I could see it coming. Every time there was something else that changed , something else I had to get used to. I would like to think that it is all due to depression. And if so there is nothing I can do. I wish I had put my foot down earlier on I just did not feel like giving an ultimatum, for something like: Either you kiss me in the mouth or we separate.... All small changes that now are huge mountains.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

As'laDain said:


> it sounds like you both are harboring a lot of resentment for failing to meet each others needs.
> 
> he probably isnt feeling it yet. you want him to be a happy husband for you, he wants a wife that desires him. so, if he can change his behavior and fake it till he makes it, then you should probably do the same. basically, don't turn him down, ??? Dude has turned himself into a disgusting heap of rotting flesh. He flat out deserves to be turned down until he makes himself something that is not digustingand be enthusiastic as you can, until both of you are comfortable with the changes.
> 
> if you keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, then why should he believe that anything will get better? if he has to jump through hoops Basic hygiene and self care is not "jumping through hoops." This is the _least _a spouse should expect. for an indeterminate amount of time just to get his own needs met, then why should he believe that it will ever even happen?
> 
> basically, what i am saying is that if you want him to keep putting effort into meeting your needs and making the changes that you want, then you had better keep putting in the effort to meet his needs no indication here she isn't--the shift work that started this downhill slide has long since ended. She is under no obligation to get excited about getting naked with a lazy,
> smoky, unfit, rotting shell of a man. She's not 'frigid," she just has some very basic, and quite understandable, standards for who gets to put his thingy in her. To say she needs to drop these perfectly acceptable standards in hopes of him coming around makes no sense. and making the changes HE wants.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

WorkingOnMe said:


> I don’t think you’ve had a real marriage or been a real wife for a long time now. Just let the poor guy go so he can find someone who’s into him.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes let him go. But not so he can find someone who's into him; fat chance there given his slovenly, selfish, nasty self. But rather so she can find someone worthy of being with. He has forfeited any and all consideration here.


----------



## Get Real

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> Yes let him go. But not so he can find someone who's into him; fat chance there given his slovenly, selfish, nasty self. But rather so she can find someone worthy of being with. He has forfeited any and all consideration here.


Rocky Mountain Yeti- Than you for reading my message! I indeed would not hold on to anyone who did not want to be with me. On the other hand, I can't give up on him. I am trying to not let the situation affect me. What is different is that I can't continue as before and I know this will likely be what will separate us. Unless a miracle happens and I get the man I married back. I hate depression and addictions. I can not change who he is but I can continue to strenghten myself and the stronger I am the better it will be. It is not easy to live like this but our kids are true blessings and focusing on them life is good. They He did change his temper for longer than 3 days recently that was a miracle in itself. His life has not been easy for him either and I honestly do not think he is aware of how it really is. 
Being able to talk to people in this website is like theraphy. I get to actually talk to people that agree and disagree. I come from a family that talks about everything. I actually love arguing and respect people that can argue but separate the argument from the person. We argued a lot but did not fight. Back to work


----------



## [email protected]

Get Real said:


> I did not tell him anything. He knew I hated smoking


Hon, this doesn't make sense. This reluctance to state directly you let him know how much you hated smoking makes me wonder what else suffers from the same thing. I do wish to focus on the kissing for now though - I am with you all the way on this. 



> Some day as he went to work he started kissing me good bye in the forehead. I would tell him. I am not your daughter? What are you doing?, he would just smile and it just kept on going like that.
> 
> I do not know why he quit. I assume this happened about the same time he started smoking again. But I do not know for sure.


Well it sure seems important, doesn't it? He knows exactly why he did it, and he remembers just as well as you do. So this is the kind of thing a counselor can be good at excavating. 

A wife shouldn't feel like this, sorry hon. 




> Let's say he did not like the way I kissed. So he could have kissed me with a brief kiss like on the forehead. But I did complain about the forehead so it stopped all together. He is not one to discuss. He walks away.


Generally, we kiss passionately with someone we want to ****. So this series from kissing on the lips to on the forehead to not at all...

You know that his answer would not be a good one. It isn't so much that he does not discuss. He does not discuss when his motivation behind the action is bad. I am leaning towards him punishing you. A covert war. 

What I've learned from a lot of studying on personality disorders and psychology is that the way you feel is most often exactly what the other person intended. When they change track immediately after you have protested, and apologize sincerely and profusely, then you know it was not intentional. Smiling at your misery though - that's a big red flag.

I would be pushing for him to discuss it, and if he doesn't to arrange for marriage counseling. 

Wouldn't it be great to have passionate kissing in your life again? I sure love it! I hope you can get it back.


----------



## Get Real

[email protected] said:


> Hon, this doesn't make sense. This reluctance to state directly you let him know how much you hated smoking makes me wonder what else suffers from the same thing. I do wish to focus on the kissing for now though - I am with you all the way on this.
> 
> 
> 
> Well it sure seems important, doesn't it? He knows exactly why he did it, and he remembers just as well as you do. So this is the kind of thing a counselor can be good at excavating.
> 
> A wife shouldn't feel like this, sorry hon.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Generally, we kiss passionately with someone we want to ****. So this series from kissing on the lips to on the forehead to not at all...
> 
> You know that his answer would not be a good one. It isn't so much that he does not discuss. He does not discuss when his motivation behind the action is bad. I am leaning towards him punishing you. A covert war.
> 
> What I've learned from a lot of studying on personality disorders and psychology is that the way you feel is most often exactly what the other person intended. When they change track immediately after you have protested, and apologize sincerely and profusely, then you know it was not intentional. Smiling at your misery though - that's a big red flag.
> 
> I would be pushing for him to discuss it, and if he doesn't to arrange for marriage counseling.
> 
> Wouldn't it be great to have passionate kissing in your life again? I sure love it! I hope you can get it back.


I was a swimmer at school and I was all about a healthy lifestyle. I still admire all that. I had never lived around smokers and he never did it in front of me so I never told him to quit. I did not think I had the right to ask for that. He did tell me the day we got married that he had quit. 

Our sexual life at the time kissing stopped was very active. This is why I assume that he had started smoking and did not want me to taste it. You are very right I think kissing is important. Not just that but having a true relationship; talking, what would I give for a good argument where we discuss and express our view point and noone gets upset. Where he would actually listen to me with the intention of understanding.

I do not think he allows himself to acknowledge what is going on because it would destroy him. He takes pride on being a great husband and father and in his work. I know when we go visit friends at times he gets very affectionate. Specially in front of his family trying to portray a perfect relationship. It bugs me. But why use that moment to make things real. It is nobody's business. He does get upset when I am offish but at times it comes natural.

He does watch over me and wants to make sure I am OK. I do not think he has ever cheated. He has written beautiful love letters to me, specially when I travel. He was such an amazing man. He would cook the healthiest meals, he was too perfect when we got married. He has always had his temper but it was not as evident. However, like someone said earlier. Indeed, I think he is full of resentment now. I think he believes a story that is not real. He told me a few weeks ago that I was trying to use sex to manipulate him. I told him are you for real. Do you honestly believe I would do that? Who do you think you are married to? He is talking to someone but this person is even more clueless or where would he get those ideas. Keep in mind these are quick exchanges of words. Since he will walk away or ask me to leave. 

If I had to guess I would say that he is miss medicated by his psychiatrist who is simply the extension of a pharmacy. But depression is more than drugs.

He has forgotten the difference between having sex and making love and it is important. 

Something is going to happen in this relationship. I have to trust that it will be fine and what is most important, the kids will be minimaly affected by it. I do not know if he will be totally hateful then or decent. 

OK back to helping my daugher with vocab words... I am truly blessed with my kids. I hope this epigenetic marks do not show their ugly face in them.

Thanks!


----------



## Windwalker

Get Real said:


> he is full of resentment but if he were to bring himself up to talk then he may find out that his resentment is invalid and the movie he has on his head to be OK with himself is not based in truth.
> 
> If he ever truly finds out what has gone on for so long. He would have a really hard time with himself because this is not the person at all he would have wanted to be. I think he realized a bit recently but it is forgotten by now.


Good God the condescension just drips from your keyboard. Nope, no one is allowed to have resentments but you. I can fully imagine that a lot more than just his "resentments" get invalidated on a very regular basis. 

Between this and your "healthy arguments" BS, it's enough to make a person want to choke.

Funny, the wife used to carry on about arguments and make up sex. Her attitude changed real quick when I told her that when we argued, I didn't even want to be on the same planet as her let alone **** her. 

File, you will be doing him a favor.


----------



## Get Real

Windwalker said:


> Good God the condescension just drips from your keyboard. Nope, no one is allowed to have resentments but you. I can fully imagine that a lot more than just his "resentments" get invalidated on a very regular basis.
> 
> Between this and your "healthy arguments" BS, it's enough to make a person want to choke.
> 
> Funny, the wife used to carry on about arguments and make up sex. Her attitude changed real quick when I told her that when we argued, I didn't even want to be on the same planet as her let alone **** her.
> 
> File, you will be doing him a favor.


Actually, I never said I had resentment. I know the person I met and what he thought about life, what he valued and what he did not value. And we were pretty much on the same note. And we lived that together when we were both in cloud nine. This is why I know he would not be happy if he realized the way thing are. 

I contacted a divorce lawyer when I saw things that were totally off many years ago. He is the one who adviced me to stick with it. The lawyer is the first person that told me that he had depression and I should stay with him and find some treatment. The lawyer had gotten divorced a few years before we talked and his story and mine seemed very familiar to him. He said he wished they had never gotten divorce and he was being properly treated at the time we talked. Eventually, he did tell me that himself. 

I am not perfect, neither do I want to be. He was perfect to me and I knew with time things would get more real. And yes I do value all that healthy talk and I do admire those who are healthier, more spirutual and with lives full of love. He would say things like: if you have nothing nice to say do not say anything at all. Or be the better person. I loved that. I know he had a rough upbringing because of his father's addictions and death due to smoking, he was on his own much younger than most people. And it was not easy at all. 

But things changed. A lot of that due to epigenetic marks. There is no denying that. I have been warned to watch our for that on my own kids. 

I am sorry for what happened with your wife. I do not know her but I tend to think that people are not out there to get us. Everyone wants to be loved and happy. The lack of respect in my husband's words is a new thing. If I did not trust in the goodness of my husband we would not be together. I met his dad and he was a recovered alcoholic and in my opinoin a great guy, funny, truthful, a good person. But I know his family saw his addiction governed side and it was not pretty and they all have emotional scars. Unfortunately the cancer took him a few years after I met him. I think he could have changed some of the dynamics if he were still alive. My husband did tell me recently that he would make it up to me. He was very sincere and we communicated some. We are talking tomorrow. We will see. I am weary but I hope we have an actual conversation.

I want to grow old with the person I married. There is a lot of water under the bridge and I am skeptical but he is still in there. I do believe that we are not simply victims that we have a say in our lives. And people make poor choices. But I have never walked in his shoes. One way or the other things will change now. I know, the odds are against but that does not mean it can not happen.


----------



## Windwalker

Get Real said:


> He knew I hated smoking but really it was not an issue because I never felt it, he never did it in front of me. I did not ask him to quit.
> 
> He is not one to discuss. He walks away.


You should have made the smoking a deal breaker if it was truly a deal breaker, but you didn't. 

Your husband is conflict avoidant. A high probability that it is due to family of origin issues. 



Get Real said:


> I hate depression and addictions.
> 
> His life has not been easy for him either and I honestly do not think he is aware of how it really is.
> 
> I actually love arguing and respect people that can argue but separate the argument from the person. We argued a lot but did not fight.


Your contempt is palatable. And yet, he has no rights to any resentments, or they are not based in reality. Your words, not mine. At the same time, things just aren't real. Once again, your words, not mine. 

You don't get to dictate the reality of his lived experiences. Wish I has a dime for every time I heard those words come out of a woman's mouth.

Maybe you should stop and think for just a moment that maybe, just maybe, arguing and fighting are one in the same for a conflict avoidant person. That not the only time that I found the word argue in your posts.

______________________________________________________

I stand by my original post. I would imagine that there are many things, based on your posts, that get invalidated by you. Your condescension is obvious to me, but I'm just one person and that's just my lowly opinion.

I myself do not consult a divorce lawyer for marriage counseling, but that's just me. YMMV.

I simply brought up the fact that my wife liked to start arguments so that she could get makeup sex. When she said this, I blew my top. It's the most juvenile and ignorant thing I have ever heard of in my life. Reference point nothing more, nothing less.

You say that you don't think people are out to get us. That might be your rosey outlook and life experiences, but it may not reflect your husband's, and I can certainly promise you, it definitely is not mine. I know all to well, that some humans are out to get all they can get from others. That's not being pessimistic, just realistic. My opinion and experiences, nothing more.

The smoking thing has come up in every on of your posts. It's obvious that this is a huge point of contention. I don't believe for a second that it hasn't been a very common topic. He gets the hint, I assure you. 

The comparison to his father probably bought you lots of brownie points too. Maybe projection on my part, but I think I'm not far from the truth. I know that if anyone compared me to my sperm donor, I'm not sure what would happen, but it wouldn't be pleasant. Those are words of war to me.

In conclusion, a person that resents you will really not want anything to do with you, if pushed far enough. I know that once my youngest is 18 in two years I will take the marriage day by day. She pisses my off enough and she can have it all. House, cars 401k, all of it. I'll take my motorcycle and my clothes and I will be gone and won't shed a tear. 

My perspective and opinion only. 
I'll bow out now.


----------



## aine

Get Real said:


> Rocky Mountain Yeti- Than you for reading my message! I indeed would not hold on to anyone who did not want to be with me. On the other hand, I can't give up on him. I am trying to not let the situation affect me. What is different is that I can't continue as before and I know this will likely be what will separate us. Unless a miracle happens and I get the man I married back. I hate depression and addictions. I can not change who he is but I can continue to strenghten myself and the stronger I am the better it will be. It is not easy to live like this but our kids are true blessings and focusing on them life is good. They He did change his temper for longer than 3 days recently that was a miracle in itself. His life has not been easy for him either and I honestly do not think he is aware of how it really is.
> Being able to talk to people in this website is like theraphy. I get to actually talk to people that agree and disagree. I come from a family that talks about everything. I actually love arguing and respect people that can argue but separate the argument from the person.  We argued a lot but did not fight. Back to work



You mention addiction (is it just smoking?) sorry if I missed it in an earlier post but addictions destroy relationships. You should join Soberrecovery.com to speak with people who live daily with addicted SOs. If it is alcohol, this can destroy a person and the whole family. It will destroy the relationship unless the persons works a recovery plan.


----------



## As'laDain

Rocky Mountain Yeti said:


> ??? Dude has turned himself into a disgusting heap of rotting flesh. He flat out deserves to be turned down until he makes himself something that is not digustingand
> 
> Basic hygiene and self care is not "jumping through hoops." This is the least a spouse should expect.
> 
> the shift work that started this downhill slide has long since ended. She is under no obligation to get excited about getting naked with a lazy,
> smoky, unfit, rotting shell of a man. She's not 'frigid," she just has some very basic, and quite understandable, standards for who gets to put his thingy in her. To say she needs to drop these perfectly acceptable standards in hopes of him coming around makes no sense. and making the changes HE wants.


hey, she is the one saying he needs to fix his teeth after just a few days. not sure how he can even do that, unless she means just brushing them. and if thats the case, then why not just tell him to go brush his teeth? and exercise... well, its not like that is going to happen overnight either. 

as for how much of a slob he is, ok. so he is a slob. but, it doesnt seem that SHE is doing it for him either, since he was pretty much at the point of being willing to walk. so, yea... when a MAN is ready to walk, the easiest way to change his mind and change his outlook is by showing him desire and respect. 

like it or not, that's just how MOST men are.


----------



## Get Real

As'laDain said:


> hey, she is the one saying he needs to fix his teeth after just a few days. not sure how he can even do that, unless she means just brushing them. and if thats the case, then why not just tell him to go brush his teeth? and exercise... well, its not like that is going to happen overnight either.
> 
> as for how much of a slob he is, ok. so he is a slob. but, it doesnt seem that SHE is doing it for him either, since he was pretty much at the point of being willing to walk. so, yea... when a MAN is ready to walk, the easiest way to change his mind and change his outlook is by showing him desire and respect.
> 
> like it or not, that's just how MOST men are.


I think he needs to fix his teeth because he is missing one and the two next to that are compromised. I do not think it is going to happen fast. I know it is expensive but it does not have to be crazy expensive unless he wants implanted teeth and a perfect mouth. It is just very noticeable when he smiles. The fact that they are dark due to smoking is OK. 

He is not a slob he is behaving like one because of his depression. He hates slobs. He hates lazy people who are unkept. What I want him to do is take steps in the right direction. The problem is that steps in the wrong direction have been taken for 20 years and I said things but hoped things would change. I am not one to give people ultimatums maybe I should have. He isolates himself and I devoted myself to my kids and keepying the family OK. What is happening right now is not my decision to say this or else is that I can't keep on like this. At some point we just cant anymore. 

I am older now close to 50 and we are about to be without kids. I want him to live te life he deserves. But what you may not be able to see because men and women think differently is that we need to admire the man that we are with. We can not just see them down a self destructing path and go on. And I felt used. For many years I have been there but I am not even a person I feel like an object. And maybe men can do that and it is OK. We need more. I still believe he can change but maybe I am wrong and I am part of the problem. I would divorce him today if I knew this would make him change. I have told him that too.

And I will not stop him. I told him this last time to do whatever he needed to do and I will deal with my part. When he was about to walk out I told him do not even get a lawyer I trust him to do whatever is right and I will sign no problem. He knows me and he knows I mean it.


----------



## Get Real

aine said:


> You mention addiction (is it just smoking?) sorry if I missed it in an earlier post but addictions destroy relationships. You should join Soberrecovery.com to speak with people who live daily with addicted SOs. If it is alcohol, this can destroy a person and the whole family. It will destroy the relationship unless the persons works a recovery plan.


He smokes and he can drink. At times I think that he may missuse the medicine that the psychiatrist gives him. Simply because he can not sleep for many nights. But I do not know. And I really do not want to know. He knows, and I want him to take care of whatever. I do not like writing this because it is pure speculation but there are some drastic mood changes that I cannot understand. I do think that part of the solution is to find some real help. Again, not expecting it to happen tomorrow but he needs to be open to a chance. 

I think that it is so easy to put the blame on others and we do not see how bad we are ourlselves. I am not the perfect wife but for the life of me I do not think I have done something that caused this. I think he had baggage that I did not see when we got married that resurfaced. But it is never too late to truly address it. I would be happy to go as well. Actually, writing in this forum is a way to get beaten and see other view points which is OK. I wnated to see other view points.


----------



## Get Real

Windwalker said:


> You should have made the smoking a deal breaker if it was truly a deal breaker, but you didn't.
> 
> Your husband is conflict avoidant. A high probability that it is due to family of origin issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Your contempt is palatable. And yet, he has no rights to any resentments, or they are not based in reality. Your words, not mine. At the same time, things just aren't real. Once again, your words, not mine.
> 
> You don't get to dictate the reality of his lived experiences. Wish I has a dime for every time I heard those words come out of a woman's mouth.
> 
> Maybe you should stop and think for just a moment that maybe, just maybe, arguing and fighting are one in the same for a conflict avoidant person. That not the only time that I found the word argue in your posts.
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> 
> I stand by my original post. I would imagine that there are many things, based on your posts, that get invalidated by you. Your condescension is obvious to me, but I'm just one person and that's just my lowly opinion.
> 
> I myself do not consult a divorce lawyer for marriage counseling, but that's just me. YMMV.
> 
> I simply brought up the fact that my wife liked to start arguments so that she could get makeup sex. When she said this, I blew my top. It's the most juvenile and ignorant thing I have ever heard of in my life. Reference point nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> You say that you don't think people are out to get us. That might be your rosey outlook and life experiences, but it may not reflect your husband's, and I can certainly promise you, it definitely is not mine. I know all to well, that some humans are out to get all they can get from others. That's not being pessimistic, just realistic. My opinion and experiences, nothing more.
> 
> The smoking thing has come up in every on of your posts. It's obvious that this is a huge point of contention. I don't believe for a second that it hasn't been a very common topic. He gets the hint, I assure you.
> 
> The comparison to his father probably bought you lots of brownie points too. Maybe projection on my part, but I think I'm not far from the truth. I know that if anyone compared me to my sperm donor, I'm not sure what would happen, but it wouldn't be pleasant. Those are words of war to me.
> 
> In conclusion, a person that resents you will really not want anything to do with you, if pushed far enough. I know that once my youngest is 18 in two years I will take the marriage day by day. She pisses my off enough and she can have it all. House, cars 401k, all of it. I'll take my motorcycle and my clothes and I will be gone and won't shed a tear.
> 
> My perspective and opinion only.
> I'll bow out now.


Well, I am definitely thinking and thank you for your opinion. I do not intend to change your mind. If I could change people's minds that easily I would not be here. We do not argue, we do not fight, the problem is: we do not talk about anything other that groceries or a trip, or things of that nature. Fortunately he trusts my decision when it comes to the kids. And you are very right he takes any disagreement as an argument/fight. I wish that were not the case but it is what it is. He actually loved his dad. We visited them a few times and they were not buddies but it was OK. If I wanted brownie points I would not be talking in this forum. I have friends and a large family. 
You have mentioned that I am condecending a couple of times. I feel right in what I think, and I am frustrated, and I am venting on this forum which feels extremly weird to be so open with such a private topic. It is also a very complex topic and it is hard to put it in writing. I may sound condescending but I definitely came here to learn to see what others think to help shape what I think.


----------



## WorkingOnMe

Every time you blame things on his depression you invalidate his real feelings and resentments. That is by definition condescending. It shows you don’t respect him and for men that is typically #1. Followed by admiration (which you also don’t have) and sex. Without respect and admiration I frankly think you have zero chance of getting your marriage back in track. And you refuse to go there because you’re frustrated. It’s about reaping what you sow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Get Real

Windwalker said:


> You should have made the smoking a deal breaker if it was truly a deal breaker, but you didn't.
> 
> Your husband is conflict avoidant. A high probability that it is due to family of origin issues.
> 
> 
> 
> Your contempt is palatable. And yet, he has no rights to any resentments, or they are not based in reality. Your words, not mine. At the same time, things just aren't real. Once again, your words, not mine.
> 
> You don't get to dictate the reality of his lived experiences. Wish I has a dime for every time I heard those words come out of a woman's mouth.
> 
> Maybe you should stop and think for just a moment that maybe, just maybe, arguing and fighting are one in the same for a conflict avoidant person. That not the only time that I found the word argue in your posts.
> 
> ______________________________________________________
> 
> I stand by my original post. I would imagine that there are many things, based on your posts, that get invalidated by you. Your condescension is obvious to me, but I'm just one person and that's just my lowly opinion.
> 
> I myself do not consult a divorce lawyer for marriage counseling, but that's just me. YMMV.
> 
> I simply brought up the fact that my wife liked to start arguments so that she could get makeup sex. When she said this, I blew my top. It's the most juvenile and ignorant thing I have ever heard of in my life. Reference point nothing more, nothing less.
> 
> You say that you don't think people are out to get us. That might be your rosey outlook and life experiences, but it may not reflect your husband's, and I can certainly promise you, it definitely is not mine. I know all to well, that some humans are out to get all they can get from others. That's not being pessimistic, just realistic. My opinion and experiences, nothing more.
> 
> The smoking thing has come up in every on of your posts. It's obvious that this is a huge point of contention. I don't believe for a second that it hasn't been a very common topic. He gets the hint, I assure you.
> 
> The comparison to his father probably bought you lots of brownie points too. Maybe projection on my part, but I think I'm not far from the truth. I know that if anyone compared me to my sperm donor, I'm not sure what would happen, but it wouldn't be pleasant. Those are words of war to me.
> 
> In conclusion, a person that resents you will really not want anything to do with you, if pushed far enough. I know that once my youngest is 18 in two years I will take the marriage day by day. She pisses my off enough and she can have it all. House, cars 401k, all of it. I'll take my motorcycle and my clothes and I will be gone and won't shed a tear.
> 
> My perspective and opinion only.
> I'll bow out now.


BTW, I just asked him is I was condescending and his words exactly: No, why would you say that? Maybe people can think that because of your accent but you are not. 

I went to the divorce lawyer because I was concidering a divorce. This was 20 years ago. I saw things shifting and I did not like it. I could not talk to him, .... all the stuff that I have learned to live with just the beginnings. I gave the lawyer all my resons for wanting a divorce and I ended up hearing the lawyers story about his divorce and listening to his advice. he said I hope I do not see you again but if you decide that you want to go thorugh with it, then come back and I will help you. My story was very simmilar to his. 

I know he loves me and I do too. This problem is not about love. I am hoping that his love is strong enough to get us out of this one and enjoying life together as we should have always. One way or the other things are changing slightly for the better and will continue to change I hope for the better. 

Yes, when you are married to someone who suffers from depression or any addicion things are not what they should be and they are not themselves. They are not real but it is possibly for people to get out of these and move on with fullfilled lives. I know a few of those cases.


----------



## Windwalker

Get Real said:


> BTW, I just asked him is I was condescending and his words exactly: No, why would you say that? Maybe people can think that because of your accent but you are not.
> 
> I went to the divorce lawyer because I was concidering a divorce. This was 20 years ago. I saw things shifting and I did not like it. I could not talk to him, .... all the stuff that I have learned to live with just the beginnings. I gave the lawyer all my resons for wanting a divorce and I ended up hearing the lawyers story about his divorce and listening to his advice. he said I hope I do not see you again but if you decide that you want to go thorugh with it, then come back and I will help you. My story was very simmilar to his.
> 
> I know he loves me and I do too. This problem is not about love. I am hoping that his love is strong enough to get us out of this one and enjoying life together as we should have always. One way or the other things are changing slightly for the better and will continue to change I hope for the better.
> 
> Yes, when you are married to someone who suffers from depression or any addicion things are not what they should be and they are not themselves. They are not real but it is possibly for people to get out of these and move on with fullfilled lives. I know a few of those cases.


Sounds exactly like the kind of answer I would expect from a conflict avoiding person.

Fair enough. I'm wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Best of luck.
I'm out.


----------



## sandcastle

Hey, OP

What country do you live in?
How does your family make money?
At what age did your husband start smoking?
Do you have any health insurance?


----------



## Get Real

sandcastle said:


> Hey, OP
> 
> What country do you live in?
> How does your family make money?
> At what age did your husband start smoking?
> Do you have any health insurance?


He was 12, yes we have health insurance. US


----------



## LTCNurse

I've got some questions! You mentioned medications he is prescribed from the psychiatrist. What does he take? And why is he even going to a psychiatrist (his reason)?


----------



## Get Real

WorkingOnMe said:


> Every time you blame things on his depression you invalidate his real feelings and resentments. That is by definition condescending. It shows you don’t respect him and for men that is typically #1. Followed by admiration (which you also don’t have) and sex. Without respect and admiration I frankly think you have zero chance of getting your marriage back in track. And you refuse to go there because you’re frustrated. It’s about reaping what you sow.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am talking in this forum but he and I do not talk about this. Unfortunately we did not talk this weekend. I thought for the first time we would talk in a long time. But he moved it to later and later and later and then it did not happen. We talk but just friendly talk like what do you want for breakfast and later we went to an event for the kids and we had a good time. It was science related and we all love science. And he is very good at it as well. We had lunch... But any other time we was in the garage. I went there to ask him if I was condescending and he was not upset not in a bad mood and answered. 

In this forum I have focused on what is wrong but there are good things. He is very good at his work, although he is better with people that work for him that with people that are at his same level or higher. He is actually very good with people that work for him I have heard. He is indeed a very good man with great morals. But at the same time he is a train on the wrong path in some askpects of his life. He and I can have a great time doing things like what we did yesterday. It was a competition and we had a good time. 

I wish it were like that all the time but he would come home and continue like when we got married and we would have a relationship. As things are I totally agree with you. I do not want it to happen but with no changes from both of us. I do not see much hope either. 

I told him this morning: "We did not talk" he said: "I know". I said: "Do you want me to just let it be/" he said, " no, we need to talk". I said: "I will leave it up to you then to decide when" he said; "I suppose". 

I cooked all 3 meals yesterday. He sits, we ate together. We talked as a family with kids... We have a great relationship, except. There is no relationship. My daughter is embarrased to have him take her places because of his teeth. I told her that it is hard and a mayor operation but he was looking into it. I also tell her that it is barely noticieable. That she notices it because she is with him all the time. 

WHen he is in the couch for days at a time without a shower and such. My kids do not say anything but many times we. Me and the kids are on our own. And he does not want to do anything. No church, no going out to eat. Nothing. I used to try to convince him. Now if he says no I just go out with the kids. 


If he is full of resentment, I need him to tell me something. You have no idea what is like to live with someone who does not talk. If he disagrees with anything. We have an unspoken agreement kind of. I call the shots on some things and he does on others. Fortunately, neither is totally off and we are OK with each other's decisions and some times with the kids he just leaves it up to me. But we have good kids so it is not a struggle. They do not ask for unreasonable stuff. I did not want my daughter to get a cell so young. He still got it, and it is time to manage her usage. 

I tend to forget things quickly. I think if he takes steps in teh right direction I will be OK and motivated and things would go back to normal. But we have not seen normal all the way for such a long time. 

We tried to talk once. I told him you talk and I listen. He said, we do not have anything to talk about. He assumes he knows what is going on and goes on that. He is the judge and the jury. Then I said a few things. He said, he did not want to talk and that was it. At the time I just wanted to talk. I did not have any requests of changes. I wanted to just talk and see. I told him we will both have to compromise. There is not someone right and someone wrong. It is not about finding fault but making things right. In a way, he thought then that things were right. I was just stirring the pot. And when I mentioned a few things that were not then that was the end of it. 

I have a feeling if I do not say anything again. This is going to go for weeks. And then he will get so mad that he will be ready to divorce again. What happens is that at some point he assumes nothing is happening and I give in and he is fine when I do. This time I dont want to give in. I want things right. Not perfect, just right. I can not see him killing himself anymore. And to him is all normal. It is not normal. I know who I married and who I live with now and is has taken a toll.

Have to go to work. Thank you for what you said. You are right. I will think more about me not invalidating him.


----------



## Get Real

LTCNurse said:


> I've got some questions! You mentioned medications he is prescribed from the psychiatrist. What does he take? And why is he even going to a psychiatrist (his reason)?


I saw Vyvanse Once and for depression.


----------



## Get Real

And just un update just in case. We never did talk. We had a good day and that same night he did not sleep. And the circle has come back but I refuse to go along. I do not want to speculate but something does not add up. 
I know someone here said to the point that most men work as long as the woman gives. Well, for how many years. I think as long as they are taken care of they are OK. And although I know they want things to be right they have no interest in making it happen. If I would just go along. He would continue on his cycle but he sees it as "normal". 
I have been thinking and it is not confrontation that he is avoiding only. It is reality. He wants to see life as perfect. This is why he behaves as if we were perfect when we are with his family or friends. ANd we can discuss topics and have opposing view points in things like politics or whatever. Just nothing related to us if it involves him not being who he wants to be. Not trying to get brownie points but I think this is what his family is like. All is great and perfect when in their house alcoholism was taking a toll. When we got married he was indeed perfect. A bit too much. He put me in a pedestal. Until my work started. I am not sure what would have happened if I had not started to work shifts. How long would things have lasted.
So I get to not only worry about us but really mainly worry about the fact that he is not sleepying. 

I was thinking this morning about a friend old friend who was struggling in her marrriage. The husband was great on the outside but put her down any chance he got. THe therapist recommended she gave him a surprise hot night. Against her better judgement she did prepare. Arranged for babysitting, and all and he was not in the mood that day! 

I wonder what would happen if I were the one who was in a destroying path and I used him to feel good and all that. 
It is hard because I love the man inside. ANd he is a really good guy. Just a very difficult person to live with right now. I always behave as if things are OK. But I do not know who I get every day when he comes home from work. Would he be OK or not talking at all or straight to the garage.

Maybe some people could see the writing on the walls. I can't. Like anything that is this difficult it is really in God's hands. I can't force him to talk, I can't force him to want to change. I can always work on me. I saw some hope crazy enough right after he gave up on us. For once he replied a text and he said he would make it up to me and then he replied again and I could tell he was thinking and connecting. I did not know by name here was going to be so fitting. But he was being real. I wish I had a crystal ball and I could also influence the future. 

He deserves to be happy. He is a really hard worked when he is OK.


----------



## Get Real

Get Real said:


> I saw Vyvanse Once and for depression.


----------



## LTCNurse

Vyvanse is for ADD or ADHD. Is he taking it for this reason? Vyvanse interferes with sleep in a BIG way. He obviously has depression and I'm thinking that ADD and Depression go hand in hand. My adult daughter has ADD and Depression. The way she views life, people, the concept of "normal" functioning, her impatience and sometimes anger or even coldness with people are side effects of either her conditions or her medication. How many milligrams of Vyvanse is he taking?

Life can throw us some awful events. Your love for each other and the life you have built together is apparent. If he had a physical ailment such as cancer, MS, Lupus, etc., would you divorce him? He can't help his depression or his ADD any more than he could help it if he had cancer. I understand the things that you find to be a turn off (smoking, conflict avoidance, flares of anger, lack of an intimate life). These issues would be present in the case of an obvious physical disease and you would have to deal with them because what person divorces a partner for i.e. cancer? You obviously need a mediator...as in a marriage counselor. You will have to go very slowly because he is going to see every demand as an overwhelming obstacle (that's the depression and ADD speaking). Start slowly and allow him to bond with the marriage counselor. He needs help and he needs a person in his corner. You might want to find a counselor that is familiar with ADD (if he has that) and depression issues. I know that my daughter finds some things overwhelming that a "normal" person would not think twice to accomplish. Some days, this is just getting up in the morning. Some days, it's to eat with a normal appetite and not like she is starving. I can't and don't criticize, she is super critical of herself and is aware of her problems. At one point in her life, taking a shower would take 6 days to achieve. It is sad to watch when I know her potential. Step up and be the partner he needs. Stay here and express your frustrations or find an individual counselor to vent. I hope he is willing to go but he won't if he thinks he will be hurt with criticism.


----------



## Get Real

LTCNurse said:


> Vyvanse is for ADD or ADHD. Is he taking it for this reason? Vyvanse interferes with sleep in a BIG way. He obviously has depression and I'm thinking that ADD and Depression go hand in hand. My adult daughter has ADD and Depression. The way she views life, people, the concept of "normal" functioning, her impatience and sometimes anger or even coldness with people are side effects of either her conditions or her medication. How many milligrams of Vyvanse is he taking?
> 
> Life can throw us some awful events. Your love for each other and the life you have built together is apparent. If he had a physical ailment such as cancer, MS, Lupus, etc., would you divorce him? He can't help his depression or his ADD any more than he could help it if he had cancer. I understand the things that you find to be a turn off (smoking, conflict avoidance, flares of anger, lack of an intimate life). These issues would be present in the case of an obvious physical disease and you would have to deal with them because what person divorces a partner for i.e. cancer? You obviously need a mediator...as in a marriage counselor. You will have to go very slowly because he is going to see every demand as an overwhelming obstacle (that's the depression and ADD speaking). Start slowly and allow him to bond with the marriage counselor. He needs help and he needs a person in his corner. You might want to find a counselor that is familiar with ADD (if he has that) and depression issues. I know that my daughter finds some things overwhelming that a "normal" person would not think twice to accomplish. Some days, this is just getting up in the morning. Some days, it's to eat with a normal appetite and not like she is starving. I can't and don't criticize, she is super critical of herself and is aware of her problems. At one point in her life, taking a shower would take 6 days to achieve. It is sad to watch when I know her potential. Step up and be the partner he needs. Stay here and express your frustrations or find an individual counselor to vent. I hope he is willing to go but he won't if he thinks he will be hurt with criticism.


Thank you! I see what you see and because I do not know any better. 

I am trying to think of a good example but it is like knowing shomeone with an eating dissorder and they do not want to admit it. And they weigh 300 pounds higher than what they should and it starts limiting their life. They go to a dietitian but all they get is an energy pill that is not working for them. You tell them to start walking and stop drinking ensure but they dont want to even hear it. They are fine. And you know they are going to have a heart attack. The disease is not plateauing it continues to advance.

I use to teach this girl whose mother had 2 months to live. The mother came and talked to me and asked me to please take care of her daughter. I was devastated. When the mother died I told her daughter to please turn in what she could when she could. I reassured her that I would help her and she would be fine. Me and all the other teachers the mom talked to. Indeed things were hard but by us not holding her responisible at all she let go of school. ANd to make a long story short. She ended up leaving the school. This was an A/B student. She was knitting in my class once!!!

I think most of us need boundaries when we struggle. I have not had any and always hoped that he would find a way because he knew better. I also realized that addictions are beyond hard to quit. Once the divorce lawyer told me that my husband was depressed and how I should stay with him. I did. 
I have been with him for over 20 years. 20 of which I have lived pretty much alone and with my kids. Like a roomate with benefits. 

I would like for him to at least join a gym which is good for depression and for him and take care of his teeth even if it is with a temporary fix. He does not have to have teeth implanted. And for us to start communicating. I do not know if he will be successful at any of it but for once at least try. I feel that everything up to now has been catoring to him and his needs. It would take me forever but we have missed a lot because of it.'

I am not looking for perfection. Just steps in the right direction. And there is something that does not add up to me. Your daughter is very lucky to have you. I think she is appreciative of you as she is self aware and it seems to me that she is doing what she can. I do not feel this is the case with my husband. I maybe wrong and I would never divorce him because that would be like giving up on him. I think he should be able to have at least one talk with me. He should trust me by now. I do not want him to admit anything. It is not about that. It is just about making it right.

I do not think he is ill to the point that he can not talk at all. Vyvanse is used for depression in some adults. There is no ADHD at all in him. But we do nto talk about it. I saw these pills once. I just looked for them and could not find anything. 

Thank you


----------



## LTCNurse

Get Real said:


> I am not looking for perfection. Just steps in the right direction.


I agree with that completely. My daughter still tries. Sometimes she makes progress. I'm sure it is really tough on you!


----------



## Get Real

They say: what does not kill you make you stronger . I feel that I have grown but I feel a bit worn out. 

We are not perfect ourselves and there is not an instruction manual. 

Thanks! I know it is a struggle for you as well. It is very hard because we love them. Ideally we would be there for them but we would not get affected. I think the stronger we are the better it is.


----------



## BluesPower

*I don't think that this post...*

I don't think that this post... will do one wit of good, but I will try. 

Dear, he has been depressed for 20 years, you saw it affecting him and your marriage, and you did not put your foot down. You are just, if not more so, as conflict avoidant as he is. You did not push it because she "DID NOT WANT TO TALK". 

Would you please give me a freaking break. If you expect experience people on this forum to read your posts and not realize that your posts and attitudes are totally condescending in every way:

1) "You really love your husband", yeah but not enough to learn about depression, and through a fit until he gets on better meds and starts to act like his old self again. 

2) "he has been depressed for how ever long", Yeah, but not enough for you to do the above.


3) "if he would talk he would realize that his resentments are invalid", I am not even going comment on this crap.

And on top of all of this, you with hold sex from him to prove a point. And guess what, most men don't call their wives a "Fridge B****" with out some basis for that comment. 

My dear, you are just as lazy as he is in this relationship. You were comfortable, I guess he made most of the money, I guess he took care of you for the most part, SO WHY ROCK THE BOAT. 

And guess what, something you should know about the divorced men that are out there. They have been thorough this crap before. You thinking that everything has to be butterflies and rainbows, the romance has to always be there and great, and then you will be interested in having sex. I am actually picking myself up off the floor LMAO. 

That sweet stuff that you have is not any different than any other womans, and maybe not as good due to under use. 

You should change your users name to "I NEED TO GET REAL", because you do. 

I just spent around 2 years kicking my (hidden) drug addict wife out of my house and my life. At least she was smart enough to screw my brains out or she would have been gone a long time ago.
Listen, you did not fight hard enough when there was something to save. I am by no means saying that your husband is perfect, by a long shot. But I am saying that if you wanted to really fight for this marriage you should have REALLY FOUGHT for it 10 years ago at least. 

It is too late to fight now, the war has already been lost. But please don't put all of this on your husband, you should have fought for your marriage and your husband or you should have left him. 

It is really too late now...


----------



## Get Real

*Re: I don't think that this post...*



BluesPower said:


> I don't think that this post... will do one wit of good, but I will try.
> 
> Dear, he has been depressed for 20 years, you saw it affecting him and your marriage, and you did not put your foot down. You are just, if not more so, as conflict avoidant as he is. You did not push it because she "DID NOT WANT TO TALK".
> 
> Would you please give me a freaking break. If you expect experience people on this forum to read your posts and not realize that your posts and attitudes are totally condescending in every way:
> 
> 1) "You really love your husband", yeah but not enough to learn about depression, and through a fit until he gets on better meds and starts to act like his old self again.
> 
> 2) "he has been depressed for how ever long", Yeah, but not enough for you to do the above.
> 
> 
> 3) "if he would talk he would realize that his resentments are invalid", I am not even going comment on this crap.
> 
> And on top of all of this, you with hold sex from him to prove a point. And guess what, most men don't call their wives a "Fridge B****" with out some basis for that comment.
> 
> My dear, you are just as lazy as he is in this relationship. You were comfortable, I guess he made most of the money, I guess he took care of you for the most part, SO WHY ROCK THE BOAT.
> 
> And guess what, something you should know about the divorced men that are out there. They have been thorough this crap before. You thinking that everything has to be butterflies and rainbows, the romance has to always be there and great, and then you will be interested in having sex. I am actually picking myself up off the floor LMAO.
> 
> That sweet stuff that you have is not any different than any other womans, and maybe not as good due to under use.
> 
> You should change your users name to "I NEED TO GET REAL", because you do.
> 
> I just spent around 2 years kicking my (hidden) drug addict wife out of my house and my life. At least she was smart enough to screw my brains out or she would have been gone a long time ago.
> Listen, you did not fight hard enough when there was something to save. I am by no means saying that your husband is perfect, by a long shot. But I am saying that if you wanted to really fight for this marriage you should have REALLY FOUGHT for it 10 years ago at least.
> 
> It is too late to fight now, the war has already been lost. But please don't put all of this on your husband, you should have fought for your marriage and your husband or you should have left him.
> 
> It is really too late now...


You may be right about the fact that it may be too late. And you are also possibly right about saying that I should have done more early on. Or definitely something else.

The first thing I did when I came out of the divorce lawyer's office was to purchase a book on depression. Later, I also found the name of the pychiatrist he saw at the time and I tried to talk to him to see how I could help but I never got past the secretary. He had her tell me that unless he had treatened with taking his life he could not talk to me. I have read several books since and I have spent several hours researching the topic. I also corresponded with a psychiatrist a few times in the last 10 years (my aunts college friend and friend of the family). The psychiatrist gave me the best advice which was to have him go to therapy and we should go to family theraphy as well. I went ahead and found someone we could talk to but he only went twice. I went about 10 times and since he would not come back I decided to stop. We can not force anyone to do something they do not want to do. Unless they see the need, it is not going to happen. I just found the names of 3 other people he or we can see. When I gave them to him is when he told me that he heard me and we would talk. 

I had a job that paid as much as his and with more potential because of where I worked. I quit when he had to move because of his job. But indeed we have built something good but at the same time everyone has been impacted. 

I do not know how to comfront a person that gets up and moves away. He used to leave the house because I would follow him. The only thing I could have done then was to simply get divorced. What you fail to see is that maybe in his eyes thing were OK until recently. I have complained to deaf ears. His needs were met, everything was seeminly OK. I was unhappy, I said it many times, I got us signed in a marriage encounter. Just to find out that indeed his love for me is not in question. I wrote all these things and he just thought things needed some work. Recently I saw a really ugly side of him but since the day he was about to leave it has been fine. He did write me a letter letting me know everything would change and be better once. 

It is hard to write everything on a post. I think writing here has helped me see things a bit. It is also hard at times to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. Indeed, I tend to trust and believe beyond belief that things will be OK. I am not one to make decisions for others unless I considered them inferior and this has never happened. I talk to my kids a lot but they make their own decisions. I was lucky they have been easy to raise. They are very good kids. I did not get up one day and decided everything changes today and it was not a 100% stop everything one day. Even as I have been writing here. But it is just not the same. It is hard. 

In my opinon the only problem is the depression. But he does not see it and there is nothing I can do about it. It may seem helpless and maybe someone else could take care of this and get things straight. I do not know how. I have tried everything I can think of. Writing on this post is an attempt to see all my failures. I have gotten critisism for sure. I do not want perfection I am not perfect, nor do I want a rosy relationship. I do talk to other women and indeed many are not happy and their cases are different but they also have something in common. 

Why rock the boat? I just can't keep on going. So I may get divorced although he recently told me that this would never happen. I do not know. It might. I do my best, I do what I can, and then I trust that whatever happens will happen for the best. 

By writing here, I wanted to read someone else's opinion about what I was doing wrong. I had a lot to say, I have never talked to anyone with all this detail. I probably said too much. It has helped me see thing better. Now, I feel like I am indeed putting him down so I may stop writing. I am definitely not talking about him anymore. He is indeed an amazing man. He is everything I could have possibly ever looked for. I saw it when we got married. He is so great that even with all this mess I am still with him. But what he has on him is crushing him and unless something changes, it will. I am not strong enough to continue like this either. It affects me. I have learned to not get too affected but it is imposible not to. 

He thinks like I do. He values what I value. He would never talk to a woman or anyone poorly. He was actually better than me. I have friends that do not have perfect marriages but I know they have good marriages. I still hope that there is a chance we could live some of what we lived early on. 

Thank you for taking the time to write.


----------



## BluesPower

*I am not blaming you at all...*



Get Real said:


> You may be right about the fact that it may be too late. And you are also possibly right about saying that I should have done more early on. Or definitely something else.
> 
> The first thing I did when I came out of the divorce lawyer's office was to purchase a book on depression. Later, I also found the name of the pychiatrist he saw at the time and I tried to talk to him to see how I could help but I never got past the secretary. He had her tell me that unless he had treatened with taking his life he could not talk to me. I have read several books since and I have spent several hours researching the topic. I also corresponded with a psychiatrist a few times in the last 10 years (my aunts college friend and friend of the family). The psychiatrist gave me the best advice which was to have him go to therapy and we should go to family theraphy as well. I went ahead and found someone we could talk to but he only went twice. I went about 10 times and since he would not come back I decided to stop. We can not force anyone to do something they do not want to do. Unless they see the need, it is not going to happen. I just found the names of 3 other people he or we can see. When I gave them to him is when he told me that he heard me and we would talk.
> 
> I had a job that paid as much as his and with more potential because of where I worked. I quit when he had to move because of his job. But indeed we have built something good but at the same time everyone has been impacted.
> 
> I do not know how to comfront a person that gets up and moves away. He used to leave the house because I would follow him. The only thing I could have done then was to simply get divorced. What you fail to see is that maybe in his eyes thing were OK until recently. I have complained to deaf ears. His needs were met, everything was seeminly OK. I was unhappy, I said it many times, I got us signed in a marriage encounter. Just to find out that indeed his love for me is not in question. I wrote all these things and he just thought things needed some work. Recently I saw a really ugly side of him but since the day he was about to leave it has been fine. He did write me a letter letting me know everything would change and be better once.
> 
> It is hard to write everything on a post. I think writing here has helped me see things a bit. It is also hard at times to put ourselves in someone else's shoes. Indeed, I tend to trust and believe beyond belief that things will be OK. I am not one to make decisions for others unless I considered them inferior and this has never happened. I talk to my kids a lot but they make their own decisions. I was lucky they have been easy to raise. They are very good kids. I did not get up one day and decided everything changes today and it was not a 100% stop everything one day. Even as I have been writing here. But it is just not the same. It is hard.
> 
> In my opinon the only problem is the depression. But he does not see it and there is nothing I can do about it. It may seem helpless and maybe someone else could take care of this and get things straight. I do not know how. I have tried everything I can think of. Writing on this post is an attempt to see all my failures. I have gotten critisism for sure. I do not want perfection I am not perfect, nor do I want a rosy relationship. I do talk to other women and indeed many are not happy and their cases are different but they also have something in common.
> 
> Why rock the boat? I just can't keep on going. So I may get divorced although he recently told me that this would never happen. I do not know. It might. I do my best, I do what I can, and then I trust that whatever happens will happen for the best.
> 
> By writing here, I wanted to read someone else's opinion about what I was doing wrong. I had a lot to say, I have never talked to anyone with all this detail. I probably said too much. It has helped me see thing better. Now, I feel like I am indeed putting him down so I may stop writing. I am definitely not talking about him anymore. He is indeed an amazing man. He is everything I could have possibly ever looked for. I saw it when we got married. He is so great that even with all this mess I am still with him. But what he has on him is crushing him and unless something changes, it will. I am not strong enough to continue like this either. It affects me. I have learned to not get too affected but it is imposible not to.
> 
> He thinks like I do. He values what I value. He would never talk to a woman or anyone poorly. He was actually better than me. I have friends that do not have perfect marriages but I know they have good marriages. I still hope that there is a chance we could live some of what we lived early on.
> 
> Thank you for taking the time to write.


I am not blaming you at all... so please understand that. And I am sorry that I came off that way. 

I do think that you may, keyword may, have done some things that were not great but then we all have. 

In the end, if he will not get better, you cannot make him better at all. And I am sorry to say that leaving him is the only way out if you want to be happy. 

I forget everything I wrote to you, but I want you to know this. 

I have lived what you are living, for 26 years, and I finally had to call in the dogs and piss on the fire. 

There were other problems and they, not to be immodest, were not my problems. 

In the end, I had to understand that I could not fix her, but at one point I did love her. 

With all of the stress of her mental issues and other things that caused, I finally had a stroke. I recovered, no thanks to her but I was done, done, done. 

I think, if you have done all you have written, dear, you have to throw in the towel. 

There comes a point where you cannot make someone get help, and you have to think about self-preservation.


----------



## Get Real

*Re: I am not blaming you at all...*



BluesPower said:


> I am not blaming you at all... so please understand that. And I am sorry that I came off that way.
> 
> I do think that you may, keyword may, have done some things that were not great but then we all have.
> 
> In the end, if he will not get better, you cannot make him better at all. And I am sorry to say that leaving him is the only way out if you want to be happy.
> 
> I forget everything I wrote to you, but I want you to know this.
> 
> I have lived what you are living, for 26 years, and I finally had to call in the dogs and piss on the fire.
> 
> There were other problems and they, not to be immodest, were not my problems.
> 
> In the end, I had to understand that I could not fix her, but at one point I did love her.
> 
> With all of the stress of her mental issues and other things that caused, I finally had a stroke. I recovered, no thanks to her but I was done, done, done.
> 
> I think, if you have done all you have written, dear, you have to throw in the towel.
> 
> There comes a point where you cannot make someone get help, and you have to think about self-preservation.


I do feel like you said: done. This is why I can't do anymore. I know something will happen soon because I can no longer do anymore. He is a smart person. I am hoping the man I married is able to push through. One of two things will happen soon. If he indeed loves me, we will be OK. Although it should have worked already. There is going to be a sink or swim moment whether we get divorced or not and I believe it will be a swim. 

A part of me always wanted to tell him how I felt, how I saw things, what I thought. Thanks to this page I no longer feel that this is as important, someone listened, and why does it really matter, how is talking to him about it going to change anything. If we get out of this, he will know without me telling him. I feel odd about the fact that indeed I talked to the world. I hope it does not bite me back. Like I said, I probably said too much. I feel more ready than ever to focus on what to do to move on once thing are defined. 

I try to be as healthy as I can and focus on my kids (my biggest goal) and I try to be positive but it definitely has taken a toll. This is also why I can not go on like this. I am as worried about him as I have ever been.

I am sure I have not always made the right decisions. I have apologized when I do realize it. I am sure there are things I have done and I am probably doing right now that I should not do. It would be easier if we talked. Having an open communication is a well known key to a good marriage or to any god relationship. Men and women think differently. Nothing can be left up to interpretation. I have had a monologue for so long I could easily have some facts all wrong. I have tried to put the shoe on the other foot and all that. There is something that does not add up to me. 

The psychiatrist I corresponded with is a college friend of one if my aunts. I just emailed her a few times when I was super stressed. Maybe I should have gone to someone myself. Paying for the marriage couselor was very expensive. I went to a clinical psychologist once but the person did not inspire trust. I did not feel like going to someoneif I did not trust the person. I finally got someone recommended I am going to see what happens but it would be healthy to go. I may need to go back to my old job not to worry about money but I am probably too old to do that. 

I hate depression, I hate smoking and so does he. Who doesn't. Thank you for replying. I am sorry you had a stroke, all these things get to us. I have two divorced friends where the husbands ended up in the emergency room with heart issues. Stress is a serious thing. 


Thanks!


----------



## Get Real

Just in case. We finally had the resemblance of a talk. The therapyst for now is out of the question. He sees any attempt to make thing better to be indefinite, like it would take forever. Exercise is also recomended but he sees that useless. It is just depression talking through him. 

Anyway, I read some posts and it seems that the best thing to do is what I have tried to do which is to work on myself. Easier said that done since I am pretty busy as it is and the stress will continue. We can not detach ourselves totally from someone we love. But I can definitely set up a goal and try to work towards it. The other thing I would have to do is to tell him that this is what I am doing. He has not done anything wrong towards the marriage on purpose so he should know. He needs to prepare as well. This may kickstart the change that is needed or we may just separate a lot quicker but I could not, not tell him.

I do have to focus on my work because specially lately I find it very difficult to focus. 

After we talked he was upset and asked me to leave but a few minutes later he walked into the house like nothing. This happened last time as well. Although last time we did not really talk. I was just very worried by the end of a hard weekend and he left for like 20 minutes and came back fine. I don't get it. No matter what unless he starts healing, this is going to be the hardest thing I will ever do. And looking towards the future, it is hard to get excited about life alone. But it is life and what will happen will happen. I have never been totally on my own. From my home to college with roomates and then I got engaged.


----------



## Get Real

I just found a psycotheraphy group for people dealing with depression in our area!!! I went by and asked him if he would be open to that. It is cheaper. He said: sure! I hope it works. I had never google a group before. I was only looking for professionals but I like the support group idea. 

I watched this video:
https://youtu.be/bMZ5_ZbjWYI

A little late to get some work done but I have to...


----------



## BluesPower

*Re: I am not blaming you at all...*



Get Real said:


> I do feel like you said: done. This is why I can't do anymore. I know something will happen soon because I can no longer do anymore. He is a smart person. I am hoping the man I married is able to push through. One of two things will happen soon. If he indeed loves me, we will be OK. Although it should have worked already. There is going to be a sink or swim moment whether we get divorced or not and I believe it will be a swim.


While I liked about everything you said in the other parts of this post and you latest posts as well.

Now, I know that we all want the people that we love to be healthy, we want them to get better. We all want to think that "If they love us, they will get better". I have started to believe that this is not really the way that it works. I wish it was, because like you at one time, I thought just like you. If this person loved me, if they really loved me, they would get better. 

I am not saying that some alcoholics have not been "saved" by the love of a good man or woman, i.e. Johnny Cash. But I just don't think that it always happens like that, in fact, I think that more often than not, it has nothing to do with it. 

On one level, if they do not love themselves enough to get better and live a better, dare I say a happier life, then how can they love another person properly. 

And sometimes I believe that people that love others that are sick just reach a point where we cannot do it anymore and that is where the "self preservation" comes in. 

For me, the stress and strain from being all things to all people, care giver to wife, sole bread winner to a family of 5, father, lover, fixer of all things broken, finder of all lost things, teacher, music instructor (both sons are nationally recognized musicians), and the list goes on forever, finally I woke up in the hospital and realized that I could not continue to do this or I would die.

It was like fireworks went off in my head and my head said, "Hey dumb ass, keep it up and you are a dead man". 

That was the wakeup call that I needed to change my life for good, and that included having to divorce my wife. 

While in my case, it turned out that my wife did not ever love me (kind of a harsh realization), even if she did, she was not able to deal with her issues anyway. 

So your husband may love you. But more than likely if he get his depression under control, more than likely it will not be because he loves you or does not love you. He has to love himself enough to change. 

You can be open about your needs, and desires for the marriage. You can be supportive to a point. You can be there for him all that you can. But you have to take care of yourself. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO BE HAPPY. 

And to people like us, that will sound selfish. How could we put our happiness before our duty to the ones that we love?????

That type of thinking, is what landed my in the hospital. It is not selfish to think of ourselves first. It is healthy. It is necessary. 

You are responsible for your happiness, staying married or leaving your husband should be determined by what make you happy in the long run.


----------



## Get Real

*Re: I am not blaming you at all...*

@BluesPower 
You are so very right. It is just hard. 
I do not think I wear as many hats as you did but it defiitely feels like it.
I have set a time frame but I am going to try the depression group support couseling. I will try everything I can this year. And try to focus on myself as well.
Thanks!


----------

