# What now..



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Some of you active guys probably have seen my posts in the past month or so on suspicion I had of my wife that I thought was hiding undies, watching porn in secret but not wanting to have sex, etc.. This is an update on what happened after I assessed and adapted your valuable input.

I found out through "serious conversation" with her that my wife has something that resembles sexual aversion from what she claims is accumulated emotional damage over the years of me not supporting her. The biggest thing was that she felt like I was siding with my family all the time whenever there are conflicts/family drama. I never saw them as "taking sides" because I felt like I always gave my objective take on the situation and I was never shy of calling my mom or dad out when it was clearly their wrong. 

Anyhow, without going into further detail on that, I asked my wife what improvement/corrective gestures she would like to see from me because I am obviously interested in mending our marriage. She told me that this is strictly emotion based so she cannot overcome this with her power of logic. So I told her I will continue to support her and do things for her the way she deems helpful. In the past month, I was very careful on how I communicate with her, extended my daily chore to at least 2 hours after work (from may be an hour before), started making breakfasts 100% of the time for kids before work so she can get more sleep, messaging her throughout the day to see how she's doing, etc.. 

I just spoke to her again about it a week ago and was upfront about how even though I understand it's my fault that shes hurt, I still have needs and it's frustrating for me that I get it once every 3 months or so if I am lucky. She got angry and told me I still don't get it after our last conversation and asked me what I expect her to do about it.

I told her, logically speaking, that even as I acknowledge the root cause of our circumstances is my actions, I also have emotion as a person, and the fact that she does not want it with me is emotionally damaging for me. After I poured my heart out with how I am pretty hurt here as well, she asked me to give her a week to really internally sort this out and have better control over her emotion. I agreed even though I didn't like this arbitrary time frame. 

It's been over a week and I did not see any improvements or effort on her end. I finally had enough last night and told her that as much as I want to make this right, if she has no consideration for my needs on top of HER not having any interest in intimacy herself, I want to call this marriage over.

She told me she doesn't want that and will try harder. Then she told me she wants to do it right then. I hated that it takes this much out of me for her to want to do it. I told her I am not in the mood and went to sleep.

I don't know what I want to do. I feel that our marriage has improved overall in the last month but that's only because I suppress my physical urges to convince myself that things are looking better.

I am not sure if this situation still sounds mendable or I just gotta throw in the towel at this point.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

A few things, once every three months is a "sex starved marriage." I have been pretty close to where you are. I commend you for having the talk with your wife. That took courage.

Read MW Davis Book the Sex Starved Marriage and study it. You will find that you are not alone, you will find lots of suggestions that have helped people such as yourself improve their marriages.

I would also urge you to read a book by Glover, called No More Mr. Nice Guy. It is about men in co-dependent relationships with women where the man needs the woman's validation and where the man does all kinds of "covert contracts" to gain approval and sex with the woman. Your chores, and approach to them sound like a covert contract.

If you still are interested in reading more, I would suggest Chapman's 5 Languages of Love. You might find out what your wife really wants from you that she, herself, doesn't really understand.

Then after you have figured out the basics of your problem and started to realize your role in what has caused your sex starved marriage, I would urge you and your wife to find a sex therapist for marriage counseling. Sex Therapists are marriage counselors with additional training in sexual problems.

Those are pretty much the steps, I took to save my sex starved marriage.

Good luck.


----------



## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

DaveinOC said:


> Some of you active guys probably have seen my posts in the past month or so on suspicion I had of my wife that I thought was hiding undies, watching porn in secret but not wanting to have sex, etc.. This is an update on what happened after I assessed and adapted your valuable input.
> 
> I found out through "serious conversation" with her that my wife has something that resembles sexual aversion from what she claims is accumulated emotional damage over the years of me not supporting her. The biggest thing was that she felt like I was siding with my family all the time whenever there are conflicts/family drama. I never saw them as "taking sides" because I felt like I always gave my objective take on the situation and I was never shy of calling my mom or dad out when it was clearly their wrong.
> 
> ...


Dave- your marriage is in the death knell.

making breakie for the kids is not going to make her hot for you.

She can blah this and blah that about your parents , this, that and the other thing.

You can be respectful, loving, kind and a great husband and father without being a doormat.

I think you made a giant step shutting her down when she "wanted to do it right then"


----------



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> A few things, once every three months is a "sex starved marriage." I have been pretty close to where you are. I commend you for having the talk with your wife. That took courage.
> 
> Read MW Davis Book the Sex Starved Marriage and study it. You will find that you are not alone, you will find lots of suggestions that have helped people such as yourself improve their marriages.
> 
> ...


Hey, thanks alot for the response. I never imagined I would one day be reading books on marriage, but I am genuinely interested with those selections you recommended. gonna drive over to the bookstore after work to check it out. :smthumbup:


----------



## marriageontherocks2 (Oct 4, 2017)

I think she's either so full of resentment the marriage is over, or she's cheating on you and gaslighting the **** out of you. Either way your marriage seems to be in an impossible situation. Maybe try a separation and get into individual counseling and figure out if you even want this marriage to continue? I can't think of one good reason to stay in it by reading your posts.


----------



## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

sandcastle said:


> Dave- your marriage is in the death knell.
> 
> making breakie for the kids is not going to make her hot for you.
> 
> ...


I have to agree. She wanted to slap a cheap Band-Aid on it to shut you up. I'm glad you shut it down.

I also have to agree with the other poster that whether this is stemming from resentment or from an affair, it's not sustainable. 

Look into the 180.


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

Beware of rewrites.


----------



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

GusPolinski said:


> Beware of rewrites.


what does that mean?


----------



## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

DaveinOC said:


> what does that mean?


Do not allow her to unjustifiably rewrite the marital history, especially given a) your initial suspicions, and b) that, despite some non-trivial changes on your part, she’s still not putting out.

Hope you did some digging.


----------



## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

DaveinOC said:


> Some of you active guys probably have seen my posts in the past month or so on suspicion I had of my wife that I thought was hiding undies, watching porn in secret but not wanting to have sex, etc.. This is an update on what happened after I assessed and adapted your valuable input.
> 
> I found out through "serious conversation" with her that my wife has something that resembles sexual aversion from what she claims is accumulated emotional damage over the years of me not supporting her. The biggest thing was that she felt like I was siding with my family all the time whenever there are conflicts/family drama. I never saw them as "taking sides" because I felt like I always gave my objective take on the situation and I was never shy of calling my mom or dad out when it was clearly their wrong.
> 
> ...


Really Dave? Your W cut off just about everything because you sided with your family on a few items but called out any family member who was in the wrong. Ok, maybe some resentment in certain situations. What is next on the hit parade that "you did"? Furthermore, now you are going above and beyond yet your W is still on the fence. Sorry, dude, your W is not reciprocating or making any indication that what your are doing is helping. In fact, it is one sided. How long do you want to play the game?


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I don't think you have realistic expectations. 

This has been an ongoing issue for a long time. Fixing breakfast and picking up extra household chores for a week is not going to stimulate sexual desire in anyone. 

I have to agree with a point your wife made that addressing an emotion-based dynamic with logic and conversation is not going to make her horny. 

The fact you confronted her about a week after doing extra chores was a double fail. She now has no choice but to think that you only fed kids and did an extra load if dishes to score some tail. That is a pretty huge turn off that smacks of manipulation. 

This is a multi-level issue that will likely take professional intervention to address.


----------



## GuyInColorado (Dec 26, 2015)

Just go start looking for her replacement. We are ALL replaceable. Go replace her with a much more sexy and fun girl. 

Having a great sex life makes life worth living and dealing with the B.S. life throws at you. Don't live a life of regret. You have one life.


----------



## Slartibartfast (Nov 7, 2017)

I guess I'm a little alarmed about how this reads. You first say she told you her perception was years of lack of support. And you invoke logic, saying that you don't see the lack of support because you're always objective. Is she supposed to say, "Well, your objective logic must be superior to my emotional perception, so I was wrong, and let's go get it on."? (And you're misusing the word "objective." When you say it's how you see it, it's subjective.) 

And then you say you understand it's emotional and that logic cannot overcome it. You then go immediately into a check list of objective acts, like chores that is supposed to be helpful with this emotional problem. Logical, I suppose? 

And then you told her that your view was that the "logic" of your hurt emotions should make her problems go away. 

And, oh, this line: "I hated that it takes this much out of me for her to want to do it." And promptly rejected her. No, it didn't promise to be much of ****, and I wouldn't have wanted it either. But to reject it without discussion when she was making some sort of effort, probably the best effort she could muster when she didn't feel it?!! Really?

You both have about as total a lack of the required skills as I have ever seen. No "logic" will help when you don't have a clue about how the equipment works. You remind me of the two wildcats the old mountain man said he saw fighting. They "fit and fit," he said, until there was nothing left but a tiny spot that was still spinning around fighting. Get some help. One go. Both go. Somebody go. Or just go, before you're just a tiny spot of mutual resentment.


----------



## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

DaveinOC said:


> Hey, thanks alot for the response. I never imagined I would one day be reading books on marriage, but I am genuinely interested with those selections you recommended. gonna drive over to the bookstore after work to check it out. :smthumbup:


I feel for you and think I understand where you are coming from. I never thought I would read the countless relationship books I have.

I will share with you the best advice I got. Work on fixing yourself as you are the person who will always be there for you. Find things to do that make you happy and add them to your life. Figure out things to do with just you and your children as it will improve both their and your life. If you improve yourself you will be a better father and grandfather. If you improve yourself and your wife doesn't come around at least you will be in a better position to find happiness with your next wife.

Remember you can't change your wife, only she can change herself. You can show her change is possible, provide her with a role model for change, encourage her and provide her with positive feedback for positive change........but she is the only person who can change herself.

Good luck.


----------



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Slartibartfast said:


> I guess I'm a little alarmed about how this reads. You first say she told you her perception was years of lack of support. And you invoke logic, saying that you don't see the lack of support because you're always objective. Is she supposed to say, "Well, your objective logic must be superior to my emotional perception, so I was wrong, and let's go get it on."? (And you're misusing the word "objective." When you say it's how you see it, it's subjective.)
> 
> And then you say you understand it's emotional and that logic cannot overcome it. You then go immediately into a check list of objective acts, like chores that is supposed to be helpful with this emotional problem. Logical, I suppose?
> 
> ...


Thank you for your input. I think you kind of miscomprehend what I mean by logic and emotion. maybe i didnt word em correctly. anyhow, people feel what they feel (emotion) but the way they act/react to their emotion is controlled by their sense of rationality, the logical side. for example, if your buddy accidently scratches your car, can you control whether you are angry or not? but you can RATIONALLY decide on how to handle it, wouldn't you agree? you can 1) beat his ass 2) forgive him and forget it to preserve your relationship. 

I am not saying she has to get rid of how she feels about something with intellect, but that can dictate how she ACTS. do you not see the difference? 

anyhow I got the advice I needed from a guy who's been in a similar situation and fixed it. thanks again.


----------



## DaveinOC (Oct 15, 2017)

Young at Heart said:


> I feel for you and think I understand where you are coming from. I never thought I would read the countless relationship books I have.
> 
> I will share with you the best advice I got. Work on fixing yourself as you are the person who will always be there for you. Find things to do that make you happy and add them to your life. Figure out things to do with just you and your children as it will improve both their and your life. If you improve yourself you will be a better father and grandfather. If you improve yourself and your wife doesn't come around at least you will be in a better position to find happiness with your next wife.
> 
> ...


Hey, I've been reading alot of your comments on other people's posts and what not, and I think you give very inspirational advice tactfully. I am glad to learn that you've been in situation before and got through this. I guess deep inside I understand this but it's very encouraging to hear this from someone that fixed his issue. thank you!


----------



## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

Your wife is telling you, essentially, that you're not getting sex because she doesn't like you or the way you treat her. You've made a good first step in fixing it. But it will take her months to warm up to you, and it may _never_ happen. So it might be helpful to change your time expectations, and know you have a long campaign ahead of you.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

She using sex as a weapon shes not interested because you sided with her family?

What a farce just an excuse to blame you for it to be ok to manipulate you by not having sex. 

After knowing she basicaly don't really desire you or want to put any effort into rekindling your sex life in this marriage the light bulb should be going off.

Call a lawyer and get the ball rolling.

Or wither and die as this woman takes more of you selfesteem and time.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

DaveinOC said:


> *I am not saying she has to get rid of how she feels about something with intellect, but that can dictate how she ACTS. do you not see the difference?
> *


That is a big mistake.

Women feel deeply. 
Men casually ponder.

A women's feel is ten times heavier than a man's one-pounder.


----------



## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

chillymorn69 said:


> She using sex as a weapon


Maybe. But why do you assume this? It's just not helpful to equate marriage with a battleground.

If there's no affection and warmth in the relationship, then no woman will feel like having sex.


----------



## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

I think you two need professional help. A good MC is needed.

Your W is checking out of the marriage. That's the best case. Worst case is she checked out a long time ago. And, perhaps, had some kind of affair.


----------



## chillymorn69 (Jun 27, 2016)

David Darling said:


> Maybe. But why do you assume this? It's just not helpful to equate marriage with a battleground.
> 
> If there's no affection and warmth in the relationship, then no woman will feel like having sex.


Why do you assume theres no warmth?

Shes been with holding sex because he sided with his family. 

Don't both partners have to show warmth?

So its ok to just shut down sex and masterbate instead of comunicate?


----------



## john117 (May 20, 2013)

SunCMars said:


> That is a big mistake.
> 
> Women feel deeply.
> Men casually ponder.
> ...


I feel deeply about mowing the yard.

People fake emotions all the time as part of manipulative behavior. 

The only way to sort out what's going on is to eliminate emotions from the picture and then look at reality, hopefully with the help of a professional.


----------



## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

john117 said:


> I feel deeply about mowing the yard.
> 
> People fake emotions all the time as part of manipulative behavior.
> 
> The only way to sort out what's going on is to eliminate emotions from the picture and then look at reality, hopefully with the help of a professional.


So very true.

In a general sense, impossible.
Specifically, a good maybe. 

If:

If the means are available, and that aberrant personal {loose screw} cooperates, collaboratively.
If that person has the capacity and the wisdom to allow the appropriate fasteners to be tightened. Their 'frame'....of mind, realigned.
If that person has the mental and physical wherewithal.
If that person, even without much where, wear, at all, allows others to apply medications to alter them to some 'better' State of the Union, then maybe. 

Cannot hurt to make the effort. Provided a good therapist is manning the screw driver.

Good luck with Martians. They are 'stars in 'Mission Impossible' playlists.


----------



## sandcastle (Sep 5, 2014)

" The loose screw" is the grande problemo here.

Let the Gods sort this out .
Apparently the mere mortals are more than capable of mucking up this Bard and his tale.


----------



## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
Your view of how logic dictates one's responses is totally dependent on one's ability to rationalize. In fully cognizant individuals it is true but in lesser "aware" people it is not considered. I too went through a period in my marriage where my wife built huge resentment towards me for being honest. She, like your W, lost "interest" in me. Instead of approaching the situation thoughtfully, coming to me and expressing her concerns, starting a dialog which could resolve the issue, she built resentment and it presented as disinterest in me.

I did not understand her lack of interest because I was unaware. To me it is logical to express to someone when they are in error, to her it was "mean" of me to point this out. It is very much akin to the parental child dynamic wherein the parent tries to make the child understand when they err so as to help them correct their behavior and the child screams "I hate you" to the parent. The child has misinterpreted the intent of the parent and has formulated an unwarranted response based on this faulty perception.

I can almost give you a written guarantee that no amount of "change" on your part can correct her perception. She sees you as adversarial when you "side" with your parents over her, even if, from your perspective, she was/is wrong. Therefore, instead of approaching you and asking why you did what you did and assessing your perspective on the issue, she adopts an attitude of "he's not there for me, doesn't have my back" and naturally lacks desire to be intimate with you.

In the end, you can not change this no matter your efforts. I could not and I tried exhaustively for decades. It was not until my wife matured to the point that she could see my true intent that she recognized and regretted all of the "wasted" years. However, the years are now gone nonetheless. So the fundamental question you must ask yourself is how much time are you willing to invest in her growth. Therapy will have about the same effect as your increasing your "chore" load unless she can recognize the underlying issue. The therapist may be able to give her exercises to help her recognize and possibly respond differently to certain stimuli but ultimately it will fall to her cognitive abilities to fully understand the situation and no one can "make" a person do that because it is not a learned behavior.

I often regret not finding happiness earlier in my life and even though my wife now somewhat understands my point of view she still is not capable of fully acknowledging the depth of the damage that years of indifference has wrought. I do now however realize that it was not her acting out of malice, as I once thought but rather her acting as a child and screaming "I hate you" whenever she felt "chastised", so to speak.

I made the decision to keep my family in tact and I do not regret that decision. Although I am sure that they experienced some of my frustration throughout the years I tried in earnest to shield them from the majority of it and I wholeheartedly believe that was easier on them than a D and all of the ensuing consequences. It has not been easy and our marriage is strained because of it but now, at my age and with several grandchildren, starting over is not something I desire to do. I would suggest that you carefully consider the outcome of whichever decision you contemplate and make that determination based on what you feel is best, weighing your happiness and the happiness of your children against any possible course of action.

It is not an easy station to occupy but it is your (our) reality. I am reminded of an old show with Robert Blake called Baretta, He had a signature line in the show which rings in my head from time to time, which is "Life is hard and then you die". I wish you good fortune in your journey.


----------



## David Darling (Oct 22, 2016)

NoChoice said:


> how much time are you willing to invest in her growth


How about investing a little in your own growth as well? 

Both you and the OP describe a stereotype of a hysterical woman and a low EQ guy, both genuinely unable to understand the other. It _is_ possible for both to learn how to move away from their respective extremes on this spectrum.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

She has an aversion. She is happy to continue living with him. She wants to prevent divorce.

I learned something this week. There is a huge difference between not wanting a divorce, and wanting to be married.


----------

