# Hi



## Nickel Speed

Hello everyone, Thanks for having me.


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## jlg07

Welcome!! If you have issues, feel free to post your story -- MANY folks here who can help (and you will get ALL sides for sure!)


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## Nickel Speed

jlg07 said:


> Welcome!! If you have issues, feel free to post your story -- MANY folks here who can help (and you will get ALL sides for sure!)


Thank you.

I do have issues. I've been here reading and trying to figure out what to do.

My wife left me and moved out. I even helped her move. Our family does not know yet.


She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy. Originally, she did not want to save our marriage, but I begged her to reconsider.

I picked up a book this weekend and read it. It is called "The Divorce Remedy." I am working on implementing the steps in the book to gain her affection. Currently, I am giving her space and just trying to act as everything is ok. I am trying to act happy and be how I used to be when we met. "Fake it til you make it."

I realize I may have made a mistake by crying, begging, and rationalizing with her for many weeks.


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## farsidejunky

Check your cell phone bill.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


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## Nickel Speed

farsidejunky said:


> Check your cell phone bill.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


My cell phone cost is the same for many years. I prepay a phone each month.


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## Tasorundo

He was saying, see if she is talking to someone.

It is highly likely there are shenanigans afoot. That just seems to be how these stories usually go.


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## jlg07

To be clear, if SHE wanted to move out to "work on your marriage", it really makes no sense - she can't work on it if she isn't there.. 
GENERALLY when they want to move out, it means she wants to bang someone (or more than one) else. She may have already had her partner picked out and she is blaming the marriage stuff on YOU so that she can justify the affair.
Check your cell phone bill to see if she has any calls to/from a number you don't recoginize and texts to a number that seems way too high. This is just a first step to see if she is having an affair.


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## Bibi1031

Do you have children. Where did she move too? Is she depressed? Why does she want to end the marriage?

How long had she been distant?


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## sokillme

50% she is cheating on you.


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## Prodigal

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy.


HUGE red flag right here: She is not physically present in the home. She needed space. She's not "happy" (whatever the hell that means …). As a woman, I will give you my take on this. Your wife is likely cheating. If not, my guess is there is an emotional affair at the very least.



Nickel Speed said:


> Originally, she did not want to save our marriage, but *I begged her* to reconsider.
> 
> I am working on implementing the steps in the book *to gain her affection*. Currently, I am giving her space and just trying to act as everything is ok. I am trying to act happy …


You're not going to like what I have to say, but here it is: Women don't like weak men, needy men, begging men, men who play the "pick me! pick me!" game.

Ever heard of the 180? What you are doing is NOT the 180, but you need to implement it ASAP. Lots of guys on here who have done it can it explain it far better than me. 

Time to stop with the hand wringing and wanting her back. Time to get REALLY mad at the crap she's pulling. Because, from where I sit, it is crap indeed.


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## Nickel Speed

jlg07 said:


> To be clear, if SHE wanted to move out to "work on your marriage", it really makes no sense - she can't work on it if she isn't there..
> GENERALLY when they want to move out, it means she wants to bang someone (or more than one) else. She may have already had her partner picked out and she is blaming the marriage stuff on YOU so that she can justify the affair.
> Check your cell phone bill to see if she has any calls to/from a number you don't recoginize and texts to a number that seems way too high. This is just a first step to see if she is having an affair.


This is not possible. Prepay phone has no bill.


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## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> Do you have children. Where did she move too? Is she depressed? Why does she want to end the marriage?
> 
> How long had she been distant?


No children.
Nearby town.
She seems happier now.
2 months cold. 4 months grouchy.


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## Diana7

If she wants to work on the marriage then she wouldn't have left.


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## Nickel Speed

Prodigal said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGE red flag right here: She is not physically present in the home. She needed space. She's not "happy" (whatever the hell that means …). As a woman, I will give you my take on this. Your wife is likely cheating. If not, my guess is there is an emotional affair at the very least.
> 
> 
> 
> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, she did not want to save our marriage, but *I begged her* to reconsider.
> 
> I am working on implementing the steps in the book *to gain her affection*. Currently, I am giving her space and just trying to act as everything is ok. I am trying to act happy …
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not going to like what I have to say, but here it is: Women don't like weak men, needy men, begging men, men who play the "pick me! pick me!" game.
> 
> Ever heard of the 180? What you are doing is NOT the 180, but you need to implement it ASAP. Lots of guys on here who have done it can it explain it far better than me.
> 
> Time to stop with the hand wringing and wanting her back. Time to get REALLY mad at the crap she's pulling. Because, from where I sit, it is crap indeed.
Click to expand...

This is reason I buy the book. 180 is in the book. I will act better now. No more begging from me


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## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> No children.
> Nearby town.
> She seems happier now.
> 2 months cold. 4 months grouchy.


Happier because she can see her other guy without worrying about bumping onto you....

Do you have any idea what she is actually up to living apart from you?


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## Nickel Speed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> No children.
> Nearby town.
> She seems happier now.
> 2 months cold. 4 months grouchy.
> 
> 
> 
> Happier because she can see her other guy without worrying about bumping onto you....
> 
> Do you have any idea what she is actually up to living apart from you?
Click to expand...



Most nights we stay together still. Other nights she had work to complete. I do not believe in other guy. We are still married.


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## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> No children.
> Nearby town.
> She seems happier now.
> 2 months cold. 4 months grouchy.



No kids and she says she's done probably means the marriage doesn't have much hope of being saved. I agree that it sounds like an affair of some sort. Even if she's not involved with anyone in particular, I'm guessing she's at least having fantasies of getting involved with someone else.

I'm sure this hurts and you want to fix things, but it so rarely works out. Realistically, your best probability of finding happiness is to move on and find someone else. It's theoretically possible for you and her to work things out, but that relationship would likely be rocky. Whatever caused her to move out (affair? unhappiness? whatever?) will not just disappear. Whatever it was will continue to affect your relationship going forward. As you work through this process, try to keep in mind the *realistic* outcome as opposed to an imagined happy ending.


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## Bibi1031

99% of the time, there is a third party in the marriage when one of the partners leave or are not happy and separate. 

Sadly , this seems to fit in your case. Please detached and Snoop. If there is a third person, you will find proof soon. Do you have access to her password on her electronics and social media? 

Do you have relatives you can get advise from to help you with your marriage? Is she willing to go to marriage counseling? You two need help. Your relationship is on the rocks and may not be salvageable if she is already living apart.


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## Nickel Speed

I have checked many accounts. No suspicious activity. 

I trust her.


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## Nickel Speed

Neither of us want counseling. Also, it is not affordable.


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## Nickel Speed

Prodigal said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy.
> 
> 
> 
> HUGE red flag right here: She is not physically present in the home. She needed space. She's not "happy" (whatever the hell that means …). As a woman, I will give you my take on this. Your wife is likely cheating. If not, my guess is there is an emotional affair at the very least.
> 
> 
> 
> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally, she did not want to save our marriage, but *I begged her* to reconsider.
> 
> I am working on implementing the steps in the book *to gain her affection*. Currently, I am giving her space and just trying to act as everything is ok. I am trying to act happy …
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You're not going to like what I have to say, but here it is: Women don't like weak men, needy men, begging men, men who play the "pick me! pick me!" game.
> 
> Ever heard of the 180? What you are doing is NOT the 180, but you need to implement it ASAP. Lots of guys on here who have done it can it explain it far better than me.
> 
> Time to stop with the hand wringing and wanting her back. Time to get REALLY mad at the crap she's pulling. Because, from where I sit, it is crap indeed.
Click to expand...

Did anger fix your marriage?


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## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> I have checked many accounts. No suspicious activity.
> 
> I trust her.


Good. You can trust, but you just remain vigilant because she wants out. There is a real reason why she wants out; she was honest with you. You stopped it somwhat because you can't accept that she is done. 

Is she willing to work on the marriage with the help of a marriage counselor? If you can't get her to accept professional help, the end of your relationship is eminent. Sorry, but a marriage takes two to make it work and only one to destroy it.


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## jlg07

Why don't you get a PI to look into this -- they will find out quickly if she is cheating on you.


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## Nickel Speed

I do not think such a thing is affordable.


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## Bibi1031

You can't afford to lose your marriage if you don't seek help. Did she move out and rents in another place? Is it just your money now and that is why economically you are struggling? 

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but putting your head in the sand is not going to help you. How long has she been gone? How much longer is she planning to stay separated feeding you scraps of false hope? If she wants to work on the marriage, you two should be dating and spending romantic times together. 

Does family know you two are separated and she wanted to move out?


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## Mr.Married

Your "Plan B" while she gets "Plan A" lined up. At that point you are toast. This situation has played out countless times on here. 

You are completely enabling her and doing the opposite of what you should be.


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## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> You can't afford to lose your marriage if you don't seek help. Did she move out and rents in another place? Is it just your money now and that is why economically you are struggling?
> 
> I'm sorry to be so harsh, but putting your head in the sand is not going to help you. How long has she been gone? How much longer is she planning to stay separated feeding you scraps of false hope? If she wants to work on the marriage, you two should be dating and spending romantic times together.
> 
> Does family know you two are separated and she wanted to move out?


Yes. She rents in another place. It is only my money now.

She has been gone two weeks. She does not know how long she must stay. We are still spending times together.


Family does not know of this. She does not know what to tell them. I am good guy.


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## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Your "Plan B" while she gets "Plan A" lined up. At that point you are toast. This situation has played out countless times on here.
> 
> You are completely enabling her and doing the opposite of what you should be.


What is it I need to do? I want her home.


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## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> What is it I need to do? I want her home.


You need to STOP acting like you want her home. You need to go about your life like you are going to move forward without her.
The more you chase/want her, the more you enable her.

Cut all contact, do not spend time together. You need to show her your life will carry forward without her and you are now
working towards divorce. You will not accept her moving out. Stand up for yourself and stopped being pooped on her while
she works to find "plan A" guy.

I promise she is only keeping you on the hook for comfort/convenience.


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## personofinterest

First, if you do not want counseling, how exactly do you plan to help/fix your marriage? Do you go to a doctor when you are sick? Do you call a mechanic if you need a new transmission?

Second, you may trust her, and you may not like suggestions of an affair, but I would say 85-90% of the time, when a woman moves out, she wants the freedom to see someone else. Peopl who want to fix their marriage do not move AWAY from their spouse.

You really have no way of knowing whether she is cheating or not, as she no longer lives with you.

Do you really WANT to know the truth and do the work, or are you just venting?


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## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> You need to STOP acting like you want her home. You need to go about your life like you are going to move forward without her.
> The more you chase/want her, the more you enable her.
> 
> Cut all contact, do not spend time together. You need to show her your life will carry forward without her and you are now
> working towards divorce. You will not accept her moving out. Stand up for yourself and stopped being pooped on her while
> she works to find "plan A" guy.
> 
> I promise she is only keeping you on the hook for comfort/convenience.


Each day we visit eachother. She comes to feed her animals too. She could not take them to new place.

I try to talk to her less now. I do not beg or ask.


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## Nickel Speed

personofinterest said:


> First, if you do not want counseling, how exactly do you plan to help/fix your marriage? Do you go to a doctor when you are sick? Do you call a mechanic if you need a new transmission?
> 
> Second, you may trust her, and you may not like suggestions of an affair, but I would say 85-90% of the time, when a woman moves out, she wants the freedom to see someone else. Peopl who want to fix their marriage do not move AWAY from their spouse.
> 
> You really have no way of knowing whether she is cheating or not, as she no longer lives with you.
> 
> Do you really WANT to know the truth and do the work, or are you just venting?



Counseling is too much financially for me. I would lose my home and car.
I have not been to doctor since 11 years. I had broken back then.
I replace transmission. I am mechanic.

I did not see an affair. I watched her place many days.

I really want her to return. Yes.


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## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> Mr.Married said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to STOP acting like you want her home. You need to go about your life like you are going to move forward without her.
> The more you chase/want her, the more you enable her.
> 
> Cut all contact, do not spend time together. You need to show her your life will carry forward without her and you are now
> working towards divorce. You will not accept her moving out. Stand up for yourself and stopped being pooped on her while
> she works to find "plan A" guy.
> 
> I promise she is only keeping you on the hook for comfort/convenience.
> 
> 
> 
> Each day we visit eachother. She comes to feed her animals too. She could not take them to new place.
> 
> I try to talk to her less now. I do not beg or ask.
Click to expand...

First thing you do is ask her what arrangements she is making with regards to her animals. Tell her she needs to bring them with her and you don’t want to look after them. Tell her she has two weeks to make her arrangements. 
By then you should have seen a lawyer and make your own arrangements to have her served divorce papers. 
If you can’t afford a private investigator then why not drop by her new home and see who she is entertaining,you could drop off some of her belongings while you’re there. 
You are being treated like an idiot here and I take no pleasure in telling you this.


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## StillSearching

sokillme said:


> 50% she is cheating on you.


I say 90%


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## Mr.Married

Andy1001 said:


> First thing you do is ask her what arrangements she is making with regards to her animals. Tell her she needs to bring them with her and you don’t want to look after them. Tell her she has two weeks to make her arrangements.
> By then you should have seen a lawyer and make your own arrangements to have her served divorce papers.
> If you can’t afford a private investigator then why not drop by her new home and see who she is entertaining,you could drop off some of her belongings while you’re there.
> You are being treated like an idiot here and I take no pleasure in telling you this.


Good call ..... put some absolute definition to the arrangement. 

take your animals .... take your clothes ...... stay at your place ..... no need to see you here again.......goodbye.


I know it seems like the advice given is exactly the opposite of what your trying to accomplish. It's not. Until you put your foot down and take control she will just keep walking on you.

Stop enabling it.


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## Nickel Speed

Andy1001 said:


> First thing you do is ask her what arrangements she is making with regards to her animals. Tell her she needs to bring them with her and you don’t want to look after them. Tell her she has two weeks to make her arrangements.
> By then you should have seen a lawyer and make your own arrangements to have her served divorce papers.
> If you can’t afford a private investigator then why not drop by her new home and see who she is entertaining,you could drop off some of her belongings while you’re there.
> You are being treated like an idiot here and I take no pleasure in telling you this.


I go to new home often at many times. Only she is there.

I do not want divorce. This is what you want.


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## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Good call ..... put some absolute definition to the arrangement.
> 
> take your animals .... take your clothes ...... stay at your place ..... no need to see you here again.......goodbye.
> 
> 
> I know it seems like the advice given is exactly the opposite of what your trying to accomplish. It's not. Until you put your foot down and take control she will just keep walking on you.
> 
> Stop enabling it.


Tell her goodbye? Then how do we solve marriage?


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## Mr.Married

When you stop chasing her ..... and stop showing her she can run all over you (and you will just take it) she with gather some more respect for you.

This is what you are displaying: I have low value in myself and will allow you to do anything and accept it.

What you need to be showing is self respect and high value of yourself. If you can't respect yourself then why should she?

I know this all sounds counter productive ...... the whole point is you need to value yourself more than what she is doing to you.

You will HAVE to put your foot down.

Being the "nice guy" will never work. They are the guys that take the worst beating ..... it is a situation that is replayed on this forum all the time. Nice guy never works.


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## Nickel Speed

Do I give her an ultimatum? Decide to stay or leave for good?

I have friend who do this in same situation. His wife is now gone. He is miserable.


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## Mr.Married

ultimatum: tough call. You need to set the premise that the animals are leaving and take your clothes.

You need the definite steps that show her you making distance .... that distance that she chose. 

You have to set it up that this is not what you will continue to enable and you are moving on without her.

Place value on yourself ..... show self respect.


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## Nickel Speed

This morning she message that today she will bring cookies. She is chosing to see me each day. This is bad? It makes me happy.

She has nowhere to put animals. I do not want animals to die or go to bad home.


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## Nickel Speed

If I tell her not to come back, how will I be able to be with her again?


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## Mr.Married

keeping you on the hook


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## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> If I tell her not to come back, how will I be able to be with her again?


I don't think your getting it .....


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## Nickel Speed

You are not trying to save my marriage. Why will I listen to you?


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## Nickel Speed

She just now messaged me. She asked me to see movie Saturday with her.

I want to say ok. 

Is this good or bad?


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## Mr.Married

Tell her you already made other plans with some friends....

Don't do the pick me dance.

Having other plans shows your putting value in yourself and your world doesn't orbit around her


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## personofinterest

Nickel Speed said:


> You are not trying to save my marriage. Why will I listen to you?


In order to save a marriage with a spouse who is pulling away and probably cheating, you have to be willing to lose it.

I'll be frank, you are now the backup guy who will always be there after she gets done doing whatever she wants. The only way she will appreciate what she has to lose is to actually be in danger of losing it.

You may not be verbally begging anymore, but you are still acting like a lovesick doormat who will do what ever she wants and wait around until she's ready to come back.

This is not how a strong man behaves.

You don't want to hear anything wise posters who have been there have to say? So what is it you want - promises from strangers that you will live happily ever after?


You are actually the poster boy for Divorce Busters (the site that sells that book). Their whole operation is based on waiting around forever while your spouse walks all over you.

That is exactly what you are doing.

Don't get angry with people who are telling you the truth.


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## Nickel Speed

I am not angry. Many people here have been divorced, so I think their advice may not be good.

I said Sure to movie.


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## personofinterest

Actually, maybe their advice is good BECAUSE they divorced a cheating spouse who would not come back to the marriage rather than hanging on forever enabling the affair.


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## Nickel Speed

There is not affair. 

She said she leaved because she did not like how I act. I get upset with no sex and pressure her. She said I am bad listener and she did not feel love from me.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> I am not angry. Many people here have been divorced, so I think their advice may not be good.
> 
> I said Sure to movie.


Well good. I'm sure you're on your way to a much healthier and happier marriage now that she's baked you cookies and you went to the movies together. When's the second honeymoon?

And for all those nay-sayers and 'bitter' divorced people who are able to see what you clearly refuse to see, I say you take your own advice and ignore them. After all, they've only seen this exact situation played out here on these boards probably more times than you could ever imagine. And just like you, all the posters _before_ you in this same type of situation all thought *their* story was different than everyone else's. 

Until, of course, they found out their story wasn't different. At all.

Just like you will, one day.

Until then, I wish you much luck.


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## Spicy

I and MANY on this forum are very pro saving marriages when possible. 

Let’s try to explain this another way....

If you are a body builder and you have always worked out 7 days a week, but you dropped down to 5 days a week, thinking it won’t make too big a difference, but quickly you start to notice you are losing your strength. You claim you want to regain it, but instead of working on it more, you drop down to 3 days a week. You get even weaker. You tell yourself and the people at the gym that you want to get back to as strong as you were but instead of working more at it, you opt to stop going altogether. In fact, you move to a town without a gym, and start eating junk food for all your meals. Yet, you still say you want to work on your body! In fact, you do stop by the parking lot of the gym often. Sometimes you even go in and visit with the people working out. You enjoy seeing your friends, hearing the music, sensing the adrenaline. Does this help you get back in shape? Of course not! How can you get back in shape by not working out. Stopping by the gym won’t help! You know you have to actually work on it! But you still tell yourself and others that you want to be back in tip top shape. Shouldn’t that be enough? What are your actions showing, that your words are not?? They are showing that you are not really trying, and your flabby body is the proof.

Your wife did not move out of your home to try to work on your marriage. She moved out to get away from you and your marriage. To work on it she needs to make up her mind to come back. She can claim she wants to get back together and she can stop by and she can visit, but that isn’t enough, no more than it is for the former body builder to hang out just chatting with his friends at the gym in hopes of getting buff. 

She feels (and so far she is right) that you will be there waiting for her no matter what she does. She is claiming she wants to work on it with her words, but her actions show otherwise. She is the guy eating fast food and visiting his buddies at the gym. 

We are suggesting you truly do the 180. Have her make other arrangements for her possessions and pets. Stop seeing each other daily or going to the movies, unless she actually wants to move back in and work on your marriage. You can convey this without the ultimatum by declining to hang out with her. Since you have no kids, there really is no need to be talking at all unless she wants to reconcile and actually put in the effort to get back together. Start making plans to go out with your friends, and when she asks to come over, let her know you are busy going out to have fun. When she asks to go to the movies, let her know you are already going to see that with someone else. Show her you have a life outside of just her, and if you don’t, get one.

This will be effective quickly if you do it. If there is anything left to save, you will know it fast if you actually do the 180. If there is nothing to save, you will know that too. If you only want to do bits and pieces of the 180, that will get you no where but miserable. So either do it all the way, or don’t bother. If you are not willing to do it, you can let her play with you like a cat does with a mouse, and it could go on for years on end.

Meanwhile, in all likelyhood, she has a boyfriend at work or somewhere and is having sex everyday with him, and keeping you as her plan B.

From what I read, you are unwilling to find a way to pay for a Private Investigator, you are unwilling to find a way to pay for counseling, you are unwilling to do the 180. You only seem willing to accept that she has moved out and is throwing you scraps like cookies and smiles while you are her permenant pet sitter. If that is what you are content with, then by all means, keep going this way. If you want to try to fix this or end it, you need to do something different.


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## Nickel Speed

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well good. I'm sure you're on your way to a much healthier and happier marriage now that she's baked you cookies and you went to the movies together. When's the second honeymoon?
> 
> And for all those nay-sayers and 'bitter' divorced people who are able to see what you clearly refuse to see, I say you take your own advice and ignore them. After all, they've only seen this exact situation played out here on these boards probably more times than you could ever imagine. And just like you, all the posters _before_ you in this same type of situation all thought *their* story was different than everyone else's.
> 
> Until, of course, they found out their story wasn't different. At all.
> 
> Just like you will, one day.
> 
> Until then, I wish you much luck.



Every story is not the same.


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## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> She said I am bad listener



I agree with her.


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## Nickel Speed

Spicy said:


> I and MANY on this forum are very pro saving marriages when possible.
> 
> Let’s try to explain this another way....
> 
> If you are a body builder and you have always worked out 7 days a week, but you dropped down to 5 days a week, thinking it won’t make too big a difference, but quickly you start to notice you are losing your strength. You claim you want to regain it, but instead of working on it more, you drop down to 3 days a week. You get even weaker. You tell yourself and the people at the gym that you want to get back to as strong as you were but instead of working more at it, you opt to stop going altogether. In fact, you move to a town without a gym, and start eating junk food for all your meals. Yet, you still say you want to work on your body! In fact, you do stop by the parking lot of the gym often. Sometimes you even go in and visit with the people working out. You enjoy seeing your friends, hearing the music, sensing the adrenaline. Does this help you get back in shape? Of course not! How can you get back in shape by not working out. Stopping by the gym won’t help! You know you have to actually work on it! But you still tell yourself and others that you want to be back in tip top shape. Shouldn’t that be enough? What are your actions showing, that your words are not?? They are showing that you are not really trying, and your flabby body is the proof.
> 
> Your wife did not move out of your home to try to work on your marriage. She moved out to get away from you and your marriage. To work on it she needs to make up her mind to come back. She can claim she wants to get back together and she can stop by and she can visit, but that isn’t enough, no more than it is for the former body builder to hang out just chatting with his friends at the gym in hopes of getting buff.
> 
> She feels (and so far she is right) that you will be there waiting for her no matter what she does. She is claiming she wants to work on it with her words, but her actions show otherwise. She is the guy eating fast food and visiting his buddies at the gym.
> 
> We are suggesting you truly do the 180. Have her make other arrangements for her possessions and pets. Stop seeing each other daily or going to the movies, unless she actually wants to move back in and work on your marriage. You can convey this without the ultimatum by declining to hang out with her. Since you have no kids, there really is no need to be talking at all unless she wants to reconcile and actually put in the effort to get back together. Start making plans to go out with your friends, and when she asks to come over, let her know you are busy going out to have fun. When she asks to go to the movies, let her know you are already going to see that with someone else. Show her you have a life outside of just her, and if you don’t, get one.
> 
> This will be effective quickly if you do it. If there is anything left to save, you will know it fast if you actually do the 180. If there is nothing to save, you will know that too. If you only want to do bits and pieces of the 180, that will get you no where but miserable. So either do it all the way, or don’t bother. If you are not willing to do it, you can let her play with you like a cat does with a mouse, and it could go on for years on end.
> 
> Meanwhile, in all likelyhood, she has a boyfriend at work or somewhere and is having sex everyday with him, and keeping you as her plan B.
> 
> From what I read, you are unwilling to find a way to pay for a Private Investigator, you are unwilling to find a way to pay for counseling, you are unwilling to do the 180. You only seem willing to accept that she has moved out and is throwing you scraps like cookies and smiles while you are her permenant pet sitter. If that is what you are content with, then by all means, keep going this way. If you want to try to fix this or end it, you need to do something different.


I am a bodybuilder. A break is needed occasionally. When I come back from a break, I am usually much stronger and can train harder to break plateaus.

I have only recently started to do something different. It seems to be working. I'm leaving her alone and now she wants to do more things. Why would I stop when it is going in good direction? I say take momentum and run with it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Spicy said:


> I agree with her.


Maybe you move out now.


----------



## Torninhalf

How do you know she is not cheating?


----------



## Nickel Speed

I check on her randomly many times. She is not far.


----------



## Torninhalf

Not far? Does she work?


----------



## Nickel Speed

Torninhalf said:


> Not far? Does she work?


Her work is half of a mile from my work. We eat lunch together.


----------



## Torninhalf

It sounds like you are on your game. Good luck, I hope it all works out. BTW my husband cheated at work...it only takes 10 minutes to screw.


----------



## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> I am a bodybuilder. A break is needed occasionally. When I come back from a break, I am usually much stronger and can train harder to break plateaus.
> 
> I have only recently started to do something different. It seems to be working. I'm leaving her alone and now she wants to do more things. Why would I stop when it is going in good direction? I say take momentum and run with it.


So you start to move on with your life and she notices and ONLY then does she reach out to you.And instead of keeping up the good work you just jumped back into life as plan B.
Can you not understand what we are trying to tell you.If you do the same things you get the same results.She now knows that all she has to do is throw you a few crumbs and you will be at her beck and call.
Stop answering her when she rings,call back later and tell her you were busy.Same thing with texting,leave her waiting for a few hours or even a day before replying.She has to be made understand that you aren’t hanging around waiting on her and that you have your own life to live with or without her.
It didn’t escape my attention that she was refusing sex with you.How long and how often was this happening.
Refusing sex with a husband is a major red flag,she may feel she is cheating on her affair partner.
I don’t think you are listening to anyone here but please listen to this.
Your wife has her ass in the air,she is either actively cheating or is in the preliminary stage of an affair and you are doing all you can to enable her.Stop facilitating her and grow a backbone and start by telling her to collect her belongings from YOUR house.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Is there any person here that has posted who has not been cheated on? It does not seem so.


----------



## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> Is there any person here that has posted who has not been cheated on? It does not seem so.


I have never been cheated on.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Then why assume that is the situation each time you post?


----------



## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> Then why assume that is the situation each time you post?


I’m not a veterinarian either but I know this.
If it walks like a duck.
And quacks like a duck.
It’s probably a duck.
You still haven’t said how long your wife was refusing sex before she left.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Andy1001 said:


> I’m not a veterinarian either but I know this.
> If it walks like a duck.
> And quacks like a duck.
> It’s probably a duck.
> You still haven’t said how long your wife was refusing sex before she left.


Four months.


----------



## wilson

I think we should take a step back about no sex meaning an affair. There are lots of stories here where the wife has just lost interest in intimacy and it has nothing to do with an affair. Based on how this thread has gone, I can totally see a situation like that happening here. If she started to feel unloved and pulled back from sex, then Nickle became resentful and demanding, then she pulls back more, and then more arguments and demands, and so and and so on, the next step probably would be her leaving. She probably realizes the situation is hopeless if he doesn't listen and understand her point of view.

Nickle, I'm saying this out of kindness, but you can be somewhat blunt with your responses. And you have strong opinions against the advice you're getting here. I can completely imagine a situation where your wife is upset and tells you how she's feeling unloved, and you respond with something blunt and uncompassionate. 

I'm going to assume she's not having an affair. In that case, you should tell her that you love her deeply, but you realize your personality can be very harsh and hard to deal with. Say you want to go to marriage counseling and will do so with an open heart and open ears. Listen to what is said in counseling and take it to heart. If she wants reasonable changes, do what you can to make it happen.

However, realize that often the marriage cannot be fixed once there is a loss of sex. Something has changed in her where she no longer desires you. It is very hard to get that feeling back. Most marriages do not succeed when trying to fix this problem.


----------



## personofinterest

Nickel Speed said:


> Maybe you move out now.


If this is how you communicate with and respond to your wife, this may be your problem.

Are you typically someone who always has to be right?


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> I am not angry. Many people here have been divorced, so I think their advice may not be good.
> 
> I said Sure to movie.


Don't lose this URL.
You're going to need it in 2 years again!
Save to favorites!


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> Is there any person here that has posted who has not been cheated on? It does not seem so.


I am not divorced. I have never been cheated on. I have never cheated. I definitely not among the OMG CHEATER broken record that, you are right, is oft heard around here. So maybe she isn't. You have checked that out, and found nothing suspicious. 



Re: "Tell her goodbye? Then how do we solve marriage?" 

Does SHE want to solve the marriage? It kind of sounds like she does not. But you have been very vague about what she is unhappy about. Like so vague, yo just never say. Well "bad listener" does not quite cover it.

I posit one possibility, though it is unclear to me if this is the case given the lack of detail in your thread. Your wife still loves you. But is sick to death of your ****. Whatever that **** is. She has told you many times about x, y, and z. But you have ignored her. Now she is fed up. She is torn between moving on or trying again. But is leaning toward moving on since you have never been interested in addressing whatever the issue is before.

Am I close?


----------



## farsidejunky

Nickel:

The only thing that comes through to me from your posts is fear.

If you make your decisions based on fear rather than principle, you will increase and/or prolong your misery.

What does living by principle look like?

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> I am not divorced. I have never been cheated on. I have never cheated. I definitely not among the OMG CHEATER broken record that, you are right, is oft heard around here. So maybe she isn't. You have checked that out, and found nothing suspicious.
> 
> 
> 
> Re: "Tell her goodbye? Then how do we solve marriage?"
> 
> Does SHE want to solve the marriage? It kind of sounds like she does not. But you have been very vague about what she is unhappy about. Like so vague, yo just never say. Well "bad listener" does not quite cover it.
> 
> I posit one possibility, though it is unclear to me if this is the case given the lack of detail in your thread. Your wife still loves you. But is sick to death of your ****. Whatever that **** is. She has told you many times about x, y, and z. But you have ignored her. Now she is fed up. She is torn between moving on or trying again. But is leaning toward moving on since you have never been interested in addressing whatever the issue is before.
> 
> Am I close?



I feel like this is an accurate assessment of the situation. 

I am not ignoring her now. I did not understand her feelings. I do now. But, how will she now see that if I don't spend time with her?


----------



## Nickel Speed

farsidejunky said:


> Nickel:
> 
> The only thing that comes through to me from your posts is fear.
> 
> If you make your decisions based on fear rather than principle, you will increase and/or prolong your misery.
> 
> What does living by principle look like?
> 
> Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk



Often pride gets in the way. Sometimes sacrifices must be made. She deserves happiness. I think that happiness can still be with me.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> I feel like this is an accurate assessment of the situation.
> 
> I am not ignoring her now. I did not understand her feelings. I do now. But, how will she now see that if I don't spend time with her?


Here is the ****. You don't get to choose. What I would do is the following:

1. Apologize for what you have done that makes her want to be around you. <Spouse>, I did not "get it" how I was not really hearing you. I think I get it now. ... Give her some examples that YOU think illustrate to demonstrate you "get it". If you get it wrong, DON'T ARGUE WITH HER. Listen. Listen to UNDERSTAND not to answer. Not to defend. Not even to respond. Responses can be things like, so you are telling me you feel x, y, z...

2. Tell her you would like to try again. Don't beg. If she is operating on guilt, help her out. That route is not sustainable. So don't go there. Ask her if she wants to try again.

I am hoping that your saying you would lose your house and car if you paid for counseling was hyperbole. Sometimes people make excuses to avoid things they don't want. IF you can, suck it up and go to counseling with her if the answer to question #2 is yes.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> I think we should take a step back about no sex meaning an affair. There are lots of stories here where the wife has just lost interest in intimacy and it has nothing to do with an affair. Based on how this thread has gone, I can totally see a situation like that happening here. If she started to feel unloved and pulled back from sex, then Nickle became resentful and demanding, then she pulls back more, and then more arguments and demands, and so and and so on, the next step probably would be her leaving. She probably realizes the situation is hopeless if he doesn't listen and understand her point of view.
> 
> Nickle, I'm saying this out of kindness, but you can be somewhat blunt with your responses. And you have strong opinions against the advice you're getting here. I can completely imagine a situation where your wife is upset and tells you how she's feeling unloved, and you respond with something blunt and uncompassionate.
> 
> I'm going to assume she's not having an affair. In that case, you should tell her that you love her deeply, but you realize your personality can be very harsh and hard to deal with. Say you want to go to marriage counseling and will do so with an open heart and open ears. Listen to what is said in counseling and take it to heart. If she wants reasonable changes, do what you can to make it happen.
> 
> However, realize that often the marriage cannot be fixed once there is a loss of sex. Something has changed in her where she no longer desires you. It is very hard to get that feeling back. Most marriages do not succeed when trying to fix this problem.


She is still interested in sex. We have came close a few times since her moving. Then she says she thinks it would be a bad idea currently.

I am not interested in her only for sex. She said she feels like I only want her sex and to take care of home.

I have apologized to her. It isn't believed that I will be different now, but I will be. I will listen when she complains.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Here is the ****. You don't get to choose. What I would do is the following:
> 
> 1. Apologize for what you have done that makes her want to be around you. <Spouse>, I did not "get it" how I was not really hearing you. I think I get it now. ... Give her some examples that YOU think illustrate to demonstrate you "get it". If you get it wrong, DON'T ARGUE WITH HER. Listen. Listen to UNDERSTAND not to answer. Not to defend. Not even to respond. Responses can be things like, so you are telling me you feel x, y, z...
> 
> 2. Tell her you would like to try again. Don't beg. If she is operating on guilt, help her out. That route is not sustainable. So don't go there. Ask her if she wants to try again.
> 
> I am hoping that your saying you would lose your house and car if you paid for counseling was hyperbole. Sometimes people make excuses to avoid things they don't want. IF you can, suck it up and go to counseling with her if the answer to question #2 is yes.




1. I did this part.

2. I have asked. Sometimes the answer is yes. Sometimes it is that she is not sure. I will ask again tonight.

Counseling she would not go to. I think it would may be good. I do not like idea of discussing with stranger who may suggest divorce.
I also do not think it is very affordable. As a mechanic, my income is now not very high. My business is still very new. My expenses are high.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> She is still interested in sex. We have came close a few times since her moving. Then she says she thinks it would be a bad idea currently.
> 
> I am not interested in her only for sex. She said she feels like I only want her sex and to take care of home.
> 
> I have apologized to her. It isn't believed that I will be different now, but I will be. I will listen when she complains.


Give a real and genuine thought to the following question

Why did you not listen previously? What REALLY is different now?

ETA: HOw you look at this may have an impact on how she views your change. Do you only act when you are threatened with loss? That is, will she, rightly, expect you to go back to the same old bad habits once the crisis is over based on previous experience?


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Give a real and genuine thought to the following question
> 
> Why did you not listen previously? What REALLY is different now?



I thought the small amounts of arguing were normal. I did not know she was resenting me more each day. 

I became complacent in the marriage. It was wrong of me. I do not think she did a great job communicating to me.

Yes, she thinks I will not change for good. I want to show her.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> I thought the small amounts of arguing were normal. I did not know she was resenting me more each day.
> 
> I became complacent in the marriage. It was wrong of me. I do not think she did a great job communicating to me.
> 
> Yes, she thinks I will not change for good. I want to show her.


I wish you the best luck! IF she has not gotten to the too little, too late mindset, you MIGHT be able to demonstrate a willingness to take problems seriously. But you have no play but to wait and see if she wants to give it another try. If you pester her, you are more likely to get a guilt result, if any result at all.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> I wish you the best luck! IF she has not gotten to the too little, too late mindset, you MIGHT be able to demonstrate a willingness to take problems seriously. But you have no play but to wait and see if she wants to give it another try. If you pester her, you are more likely to get a guilt result, if any result at all.


So do not ask her tonight? I don't want to pressure her.


----------



## Bibi1031

You need to give her time, but not too much that you guys fall further apart. Let her know that you can live separated but dating for 2 or 3 months, but that if during this time she doesn't want to be a wife, then the family and friends need to know that she decided to move out and you guys have been separated for as long as you have. 

Own your faults and let everyone know that you now understand your mistakes, but that you can't live like a married man when your wife is living on a place and you in another. If she really wants her marriage, then living separated is not working on the marriage plain and simple. 

I too sense a terrible fear of losing your wife and I truly feel for you because none of us want this for you. The truth is that you haven't had a wife in about 6 months. She has disconnected from you and the marriage long enough to tell you she is done and moved out. That is why you finally listened. It took her leaving for you to wake up.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> So do not ask her tonight? I don't want to pressure her.


If it were ME, I would say something like I want to work on the marriage. I want to show you that I really HEAR you in a way I had not before. But I don't want to pressure you. So I will not say anything further until you bring it up. Then I would do that.

Whatever she says or does not say, it sounds like you are still hanging out. So start that uber awesome listening right away. 

https://www.fastcompany.com/3036026/5-ways-to-improve-your-listening-skills

Keep us posted. I am rooting for you.


----------



## personofinterest

NobodySpecial said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> So do not ask her tonight? I don't want to pressure her.
> 
> 
> 
> If it were ME, I would say something like I want to work on the marriage. I want to show you that I really HEAR you in a way I had not before. But I don't want to pressure you. So I will not say anything further until you bring it up. Then I would do that.
> 
> Whatever she says or does not say, it sounds like you are still hanging out. So start that uber awesome listening right away.
> 
> https://www.fastcompany.com/3036026/5-ways-to-improve-your-listening-skills
> 
> Keep us posted. I am rooting for you.
Click to expand...

THIS is a good approach


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> Yes, she thinks I will not change for good. I want to show her.


That's probably a realistic concern. A lot of times people are highly motivated to change in the short-term, but then go back to old habits in a few weeks or months. Just think about how many people make New Year's resolutions only to forget them all by February. You'll just need to keep demonstrating that you've changed and hopefully she'll see it. 

If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality? Based on how you say things, it seems like you're from another country. Is your wife from the same country as you? I'm wondering if there is any difference between cultural expectations of marriage between the two of you.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> That's probably a realistic concern. A lot of times people are highly motivated to change in the short-term, but then go back to old habits in a few weeks or months. Just think about how many people make New Year's resolutions only to forget them all by February. You'll just need to keep demonstrating that you've changed and hopefully she'll see it.
> 
> If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality? Based on how you say things, it seems like you're from another country. Is your wife from the same country as you? I'm wondering if there is any difference between cultural expectations of marriage between the two of you.


If you don't mind me asking, what is your nationality? Based on how you say things, it seems like you're from another country. Is your wife from the same country as you? I'm wondering if there is any difference between cultural expectations of marriage between the two of you.[/QUOTE]

I'm more American than most. I was raised on a reservation. It may slightly affect the way I structure my sentences. I've had that comment before.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I'm more American than most. I was raised on a reservation. It may slightly affect the way I structure my sentences. I've had that comment before.


Ah! Thanks for letting us stay in your country  I hope you didn't mind me asking. My reasoning is that often the culture we grow up in shapes our behavior and expectations of marriage. What was your family like growing up? What kind of relationship did your mom and dad have?


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> Ah! Thanks for letting us stay in your country  I hope you didn't mind me asking. My reasoning is that often the culture we grow up in shapes our behavior and expectations of marriage. What was your family like growing up? What kind of relationship did your mom and dad have?


It is no problem. I did not have much say so in the matter.

My family fought a lot. Mom had a farm. Dad went to work, came home, and then had to help her with farm work. It was too much for him. I remember them both accusing each other of being unfaithful many times growing up. I remember dad saying he was leaving, and mom screamed and crying for him to stay. Every night while in bed, I heard the crying and arguing. When I became 11, he left mother for another woman. I didn't know where he went. A couple months later, I got to speak him on the phone. Then I got to start seeing him again.

Finally, mother became angry. She drank to excess. She left me home alone for weeks at a time with junk food while she went with her boyfriend. I was living alone. I went to a friend's house each evening to eat. She then became a "Christian", and slapped me across the face when I refused to go to church with her. I slapped her back and did not go to church. A couple weeks later, I ran away on a bicycle in the middle of a tornado warning and thunderstorms. I was supposed to get on the bus that morning. Instead, I rode all day until I found where my dad was staying. I found him after dark.

After that, I only spoke to my mother twice in the next 18 years after the divorce was final. She begged at first until I was maybe 13. Then I never heard from her anymore. I am now speaking with her again. My wife convinced me to before I married her, but it is a strange situation. The awkwardness makes me not want to see her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> You need to give her time, but not too much that you guys fall further apart. Let her know that you can live separated but dating for 2 or 3 months, but that if during this time she doesn't want to be a wife, then the family and friends need to know that she decided to move out and you guys have been separated for as long as you have.
> 
> Own your faults and let everyone know that you now understand your mistakes, but that you can't live like a married man when your wife is living on a place and you in another. If she really wants her marriage, then living separated is not working on the marriage plain and simple.
> 
> I too sense a terrible fear of losing your wife and I truly feel for you because none of us want this for you. The truth is that you haven't had a wife in about 6 months. She has disconnected from you and the marriage long enough to tell you she is done and moved out. That is why you finally listened. It took her leaving for you to wake up.


I hope that I can hold on for three months.
Each night since she left, I have panic attacks in the mass silence of my home. In the past as a child, I had these panic attacks when thinking deeply about death. I would go into deep thought about how it would feel not to exist. Then I couldn't breath anymore.

Now this happens without thinking of not existing. I just think of being alone. 

Then I go watch tv to distract myself from my reality until I calm down. If this does not work, I go lift weights. I usually fall asleep crying now. I would never admit this to someone I know, including the wife.


----------



## wilson

I'm sorry to hear about how hard your childhood was. Not only is that hard to go through, it also means you didn't get to experience what a healthy, loving marriage is like. Often, we tend to repeat the same patterns we grew up with. It actually sounds like you and your wife had/have a pretty good connection, but maybe there's some difficulty in communication and how to deal with conflicts. Do you have any close friends or relatives who have been married a long time and seem happy? Think about how they discuss conflicts they have and how they resolve them and if you can apply that to your relationship.

While things are in turmoil, try to spend time with friends. It will help your feelings of loss and being alone and get your mind in a better state. If you're panicked about being alone, you might be too clingy with your wife. Fill your time with fun activities with your friends and you'll likely be in a better mood for her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> I'm sorry to hear about how hard your childhood was. Not only is that hard to go through, it also means you didn't get to experience what a healthy, loving marriage is like. Often, we tend to repeat the same patterns we grew up with. It actually sounds like you and your wife had/have a pretty good connection, but maybe there's some difficulty in communication and how to deal with conflicts. Do you have any close friends or relatives who have been married a long time and seem happy? Think about how they discuss conflicts they have and how they resolve them and if you can apply that to your relationship.



I think this is a very common childhood.


I have no family that I know.
I have three close friends. Two are divorced. One is 40 and never married "gay."
When speaking with friends or father, their only advice is to get a lawyer.

My wife has many friends. Her closest friends are married, but they are cheaters with terrible and rocky history. I do not like the people she calls friends. They use her and give awful guidance. "Moving out" was some of this advice. She moved out and her husband came running back. Now they are back together and act happy. I think this is why my wife took her guidance. Her parents are also divorced at a young age.

My friends are often too busy for me. One is working to run his business. One has a new girlfriend after his divorce. The last does not live near.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> Her work is half of a mile from my work. We eat lunch together.


Putting on blinders and *refusing *to admit that you DON'T know every single thing your wife does *24 hours a day 7 days a week *is a real good way to get the rug pulled right out from underneath you. 

Do you have any idea how many married people had NO CLUE their wife or husband was cheating on them because they conducted their affairs during the day, during business hours? They were home every night right after work, they were home on the weekends and didn't engage in suspicious behavior, and they were doing nothing different than they'd ever done. And yet, they were engaged in full-fledged affairs taking place during work hours. And all their betrayed spouses sounded just like you - "he/she isn't cheating - they're home every night at the same time and we even have lunch together."

Your wife has one HUGE advantage most cheaters don't have - she has a pre-paid phone. That means NO cell bill and NO WAY for you to see who she's calling and texting day and night. Do you really think she's *stupid* enough to leave any texts on her phone or any evidence at ALL when she knows she's going to be seeing you for lunch or a movie? Come on, now.

I swear, you need to pull your head out of the sand.


----------



## UpsideDownWorld11

You will learn the hard way like all of us.


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> Is there any person here that has posted who has not been cheated on? It does not seem so.


I have never been cheated on either.

I would love for you guys to get back together and this be a success. I’m not trying to be harsh or cruel. Just trying to get you to look at it from another standpoint. In my former analogy, as a body builder, when you pause for a bit, do you cancel your gym membership and never return to working out? Do you only visit the gym and not do anything? That is what she is doing to you, but you can’t seem to see that. Why could she not work on it while living with you? She LEFT. She wouldn’t have sex with you and still isn’t...so then WHO is she having sex with?

You seem to be ignoring a ton of red flags, and now hearing that her friends are all cheaters...remember...birds of a feather...Does she guard her phone and not let you look at it usually? Personally, I would ask for her phone tonight and if she won’t let you look through it, that will tell you a lot. IF she willingly let’s you borrow it, I would 
excuse myself to the restroom and then check her messages, social media, email, and for apps commonly used for cheating things like Whatsapp and even dating sites. If she has nothing to hide she will hand you her phone. Remember, faithful married people have no need for phone privacy. 

If she objects...then you can draw your own conclusions...but you seem like you would reason that away too. Like you know what is going on behind her closed doors at her new home, and all day at her work, and are certain she is not having an affair. I hope you are right, but I personally would be open to investigating this as much as possible.

From your earlier replies, it seems that you do not want to hear any suggetions that you many not agree with, and you have this all figured out. Perhaps you should only offer advice to others for a successful marriage rather than asking us for advice.

I wish you both the best, and I hope your plan works and that I am very wrong.


----------



## aine

Nickel Speed said:


> I have checked many accounts. No suspicious activity.
> 
> I trust her.


Never trust a spouse who wants to separate!
She may be having the best of both worlds, you, the security and someone on the side for extracurricular.


----------



## aine

Nickel Speed said:


> I go to new home often at many times. Only she is there.
> 
> I do not want divorce. This is what you want.


You are being a chump. She does what she likes, you beg her and then you take care of the home, animals etc. There have been no consequences for her leaving you. You have to stop the mucking around and 

1. go see a lawyer, draw up papers, it takes a year or so to finalize, just let her see you are not someone to be messed with, that you also have agency, she is not the one calling the shots for your life
2. Tell her to take care of her stuff, move it out including her animals as you will not take care of it
3. Stop visiting her, communicating with her, go silent. You are there for her and she can be with other men, you are allowing this to happen.
4. Set the boundaries now and be willing to lose this marriage to save it.
5. You may find that you don't want a wife who is willing to walk out on you.
6. Marriages don't survive with separation. Separation is usually the first step to divorce.

I am sorry for your childhood, that was really tough and it has surely created the man you are. Maybe you do not show much emotion, have low levels of trust etc. Issues which would have had an impact on any partner and I am sure your wife has mentioned this, i.e. you only want her for sex and as a housemaid. 
I honestly think, you need to work on yourself first. Start reading books on childhood emotional neglect, on marriage (His Needs Her Needs). It would be ideal if you could go for individual counselling.
There is little point in changing your behavior to please someone else, as it is usually just short term and you wil end up going back to familiar patterns.
You must change from within for yourself as you want to be a better man for you. If your wife sees that and comes back, great but if she does not then you will be a better man for the next woman in your life
BTW how old are you both?


----------



## ConanHub

Get a hot date just for a fun night out and take a couple selfies for social media.

If you have FB, change your status to single.

Go do things for you and start having fun as your goal.

Be as successful as you are capable of and kick a little ass.

There is no reason for you not to enjoy your life.

She chose to leave. Don't try to have fun with her anymore or invite her for anything.

Start giving whatever talent, charm and skill to others, for their enjoyment as well as your own.

Smile a LOT!

You're free to live my friend. Make more friends!


----------



## ConanHub

P.S. FedEx your ring to your ex.


----------



## aine

StillSearching said:


> Don't lose this URL.
> You're going to need it in 2 years again!
> Save to favorites!


I am not divorced and still with my spouse of 26 years and yes I have been cheated on. You will do it the way you want to do it, so go ahead. People are simply pointing out that you cannot woo her back by being a sucker. You have to play hard to get, do the 180, let her see what she is about to lose.
Remember you have to be prepared to lose the marriage to save it. You are not prepared to do anything except be an obvious plan B.


----------



## ConanHub

Grow your hair long, buy a motorcycle, get a tattoo?

Sometimes life gives you an opportunity to try something different?


----------



## Nickel Speed

I have looked for evidence of cheating. I have not ruled out the possibility.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Spicy said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is there any person here that has posted who has not been cheated on? It does not seem so.
> 
> 
> 
> I have never been cheated on either.
> 
> I would love for you guys to get back together and this be a success. I’m not trying to be harsh or cruel. Just trying to get you to look at it from another standpoint. In my former analogy, as a body builder, when you pause for a bit, do you cancel your gym membership and never return to working out? Do you only visit the gym and not do anything? That is what she is doing to you, but you can’t seem to see that. Why could she not work on it while living with you? She LEFT. She wouldn’t have sex with you and still isn’t...so then WHO is she having sex with?
> 
> You seem to be ignoring a ton of red flags, and now hearing that her friends are all cheaters...remember...birds of a feather...Does she guard her phone and not let you look at it usually? Personally, I would ask for her phone tonight and if she won’t let you look through it, that will tell you a lot. IF she willingly let’s you borrow it, I would
> excuse myself to the restroom and then check her messages, social media, email, and for apps commonly used for cheating things like Whatsapp and even dating sites. If she has nothing to hide she will hand you her phone. Remember, faithful married people have no need for phone privacy.
> 
> If she objects...then you can draw your own conclusions...but you seem like you would reason that away too. Like you know what is going on behind her closed doors at her new home, and all day at her work, and are certain she is not having an affair. I hope you are right, but I personally would be open to investigating this as much as possible.
> 
> From your earlier replies, it seems that you do not want to hear any suggetions that you many not agree with, and you have this all figured out. Perhaps you should only offer advice to others for a successful marriage rather than asking us for advice.
> 
> I wish you both the best, and I hope your plan works and that I am very wrong.
Click to expand...

She just left to go to her place. I can ask for phone tomorrow.

I asked her for a timeline tomorrow as to when she will make a decision to fully recommit to our marriage or not.


----------



## Nickel Speed

aine said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I go to new home often at many times. Only she is there.
> 
> I do not want divorce. This is what you want.
> 
> 
> 
> You are being a chump. She does what she likes, you beg her and then you take care of the home, animals etc. There have been no consequences for her leaving you. You have to stop the mucking around and
> 
> 1. go see a lawyer, draw up papers, it takes a year or so to finalize, just let her see you are not someone to be messed with, that you also have agency, she is not the one calling the shots for your life
> 2. Tell her to take care of her stuff, move it out including her animals as you will not take care of it
> 3. Stop visiting her, communicating with her, go silent. You are there for her and she can be with other men, you are allowing this to happen.
> 4. Set the boundaries now and be willing to lose this marriage to save it.
> 5. You may find that you don't want a wife who is willing to walk out on you.
> 6. Marriages don't survive with separation. Separation is usually the first step to divorce.
> 
> I am sorry for your childhood, that was really tough and it has surely created the man you are. Maybe you do not show much emotion, have low levels of trust etc. Issues which would have had an impact on any partner and I am sure your wife has mentioned this, i.e. you only want her for sex and as a housemaid.
> I honestly think, you need to work on yourself first. Start reading books on childhood emotional neglect, on marriage (His Needs Her Needs). It would be ideal if you could go for individual counselling.
> There is little point in changing your behavior to please someone else, as it is usually just short term and you wil end up going back to familiar patterns.
> You must change from within for yourself as you want to be a better man for you. If your wife sees that and comes back, great but if she does not then you will be a better man for the next woman in your life
> BTW how old are you both?
Click to expand...

We are both very early 30s. 

I have changed, even if I need to use my new skillset in next relationship. There has been a lot of deep reflection on my part. Those habits have died. I do not see myself returning.


I do not show much emotion and I do have trust issues. I fear being abandoned. I'm working on it, but I don't think this can be changed.


----------



## Nickel Speed

ConanHub said:


> Get a hot date just for a fun night out and take a couple selfies for social media.
> 
> If you have FB, change your status to single.
> 
> Go do things for you and start having fun as your goal.
> 
> Be as successful as you are capable of and kick a little ass.
> 
> There is no reason for you not to enjoy your life.
> 
> She chose to leave. Don't try to have fun with her anymore or invite her for anything.
> 
> Start giving whatever talent, charm and skill to others, for their enjoyment as well as your own.
> 
> Smile a LOT!
> 
> You're free to live my friend. Make more friends!


We agreed to not see others during this separation. 

I don't find joy in anything else in life at this moment. Everything I thought was important does not seem to matter. I have tried to force myself to do things. It doesn't help. I haven't made any gains physically in a while either. My nerves have made it hard to function.


----------



## Nickel Speed

ConanHub said:


> Grow your hair long, buy a motorcycle, get a tattoo?
> 
> Sometimes life gives you an opportunity to try something different?



I have all of the above.


----------



## ConanHub

Nickel Speed said:


> We agreed to not see others during this separation.
> 
> I don't find joy in anything else in life at this moment. Everything I thought was important does not seem to matter. I have tried to force myself to do things. It doesn't help. I haven't made any gains physically in a while either. My nerves have made it hard to function.


Ok. You do not sound healthy.

Have you seen a counselor?

I think you have put too much of your personal worth into her acceptance and treatment of you.

No one should bare that burden and no one should have that power over you.

You are young and their is a lot of good life out there to live.

She left my man. Let her. Don't play the pick me dance and don't chase something you can't capture.

If you screwed up the relationship, own it and learn from it.

If she screwed it up then you can learn to look out for certain behaviors.


----------



## jlg07

Nickel Speed said:


> My wife has many friends. Her closest friends are married, *but they are cheaters *with terrible and rocky history. I do not like the people she calls friends. *They use her and give awful guidance. "Moving out" was some of this advice.* She moved out and her husband came running back. Now they are back together and act happy. I think this is why my wife took her guidance. Her parents are also divorced at a young age.


You may want to watch your wife more closely. If she is friends with folks who you KNOW have cheated on their spouse, it doesn't say much about HER morals that she accepts it so easily with them.

In addition, I think you need to work on YOURSELF and not worry so strongly about the marriage. Listen to what she told you, examine YOURSELF and see if what she says has any merit, and then work on what you think makes sense to make yourself a better person. NOT for her sake, but for your own so that any relationship you have (with her, or someone else in the future) is stronger.

"I do not show much emotion and I do have trust issues. I fear being abandoned. I'm working on it, but I don't think this can be changed."
YES it can -- there are many techniques that a counselor can show you to help overcome this. 
It IS good that you have started working on this stuff, but make sure you continue. Also GET TO A GYM or start doing other vigorous physical exercise -- it will help you manage the stress and "nerves". Get plenty of rest and eat well.


----------



## Nickel Speed

jlg07 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> My wife has many friends. Her closest friends are married, *but they are cheaters *with terrible and rocky history. I do not like the people she calls friends. *They use her and give awful guidance. "Moving out" was some of this advice.* She moved out and her husband came running back. Now they are back together and act happy. I think this is why my wife took her guidance. Her parents are also divorced at a young age.
> 
> 
> 
> You may want to watch your wife more closely. If she is friends with folks who you KNOW have cheated on their spouse, it doesn't say much about HER morals that she accepts it so easily with them.
> 
> In addition, I think you need to work on YOURSELF and not worry so strongly about the marriage. Listen to what she told you, examine YOURSELF and see if what she says has any merit, and then work on what you think makes sense to make yourself a better person. NOT for her sake, but for your own so that any relationship you have (with her, or someone else in the future) is stronger.
> 
> "I do not show much emotion and I do have trust issues. I fear being abandoned. I'm working on it, but I don't think this can be changed."
> YES it can -- there are many techniques that a counselor can show you to help overcome this.
> It IS good that you have started working on this stuff, but make sure you continue. Also GET TO A GYM or start doing other vigorous physical exercise -- it will help you manage the stress and "nerves". Get plenty of rest and eat well.
Click to expand...

I mentioned earlier that I body build. I have a gym at home.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Spicy said:


> Does she guard her phone and not let you look at it usually? Personally, I would ask for her phone tonight and if she won’t let you look through it, that will tell you a lot. IF she willingly let’s you borrow it, I would
> excuse myself to the restroom and then check her messages, social media, email, and for apps commonly used for cheating things like Whatsapp and even dating sites. If she has nothing to hide she will hand you her phone. Remember, faithful married people have no need for phone privacy.


Plenty of cheaters keep their phones totally clean because some are much more paranoid and/or methodical than others. That's why some get caught pretty easily and some do not. So unfortunately, even if she *does* hand the phone over to him willingly, that's NOT an indication that she's not cheating. It just means she could very well be one of those cheaters who is extra careful and doesn't want to leave any evidence to get herself caught.

She hasn't wanted to have sex with the OP for months, she's actually taken it upon herself to move into her own place and yet, she still keeps the OP in her orbit while enjoying her new mysterious single life. She's friend-zoned him - she wants nothing to do with him sexually but he's fun to go to lunch with and to go to the movies with. Who does that? 

That makes him* PLAN B*. She makes sure to keep him around while she explores 'single' life and is free to see whoever it is that's obviously turned her head. If that all blows up in her face, she's still got good old Plan B.


----------



## manwithnoname

Nickel Speed said:


> I mentioned earlier that I body build. I have a gym at home.


It is possible for someone to be physically strong, but emotionally and mentally weak. 

Working on one's self means working on all aspects of health, in my opinion.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> She just left to go to her place. I can ask for phone tomorrow.
> 
> I asked her for a timeline tomorrow as to when she will make a decision to fully recommit to our marriage or not.


Again .... you put the power in her hands to determine the outcome so you can live by her rules.

The correct thing was ...... you have 1 week to make your choice.

Your still in the passenger seat.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Again .... you put the power in her hands to determine the outcome so you can live by her rules.
> 
> The correct thing was ...... you have 1 week to make your choice.
> 
> Your still in the passenger seat.



It was very hard for me to try and force a timeline. I can barely control myself. I want to collapse to my knees and cry. I realize there is no-one to listen and no-one who cares. Friends say, "Sorry Bro, I don't know what to say."

I'm getting nothing done at the shop. My life is a wreck. The only reason I can function at all is because I have hope I can work through things with her.

How can I get through these feelings? People say to act, leave, etc. I can not do it.


----------



## NobodySpecial

OP: When you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Not everything is about cheating, despite what the majority of people have said on this board. Many people want out of marriage without cheating. Invariably, they leave....


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> It was very hard for me to try and force a timeline. I can barely control myself. I want to collapse to my knees and cry. I realize there is no-one to listen and no-one who cares. Friends say, "Sorry Bro, I don't know what to say."
> 
> I'm getting nothing done at the shop. My life is a wreck. The only reason I can function at all is because I have hope I can work through things with her.
> 
> How can I get through these feelings? People say to act, leave, etc. I can not do it.


It's tough no doubt. I'm not saying the end game is to dump her. I understand that some of the advice sounds completely counter productive. 
The whole idea is that you need to stop showing her your entire existence revolves around her. 

The end game IS to get her back .... but she has positioned herself into the "I'm going to weigh my options" position.

You don't FIX a marriage by moving out

Weather or not she is or isn't cheating will not make a difference in how you should be playing this.

For what it's worth I was a mechanic too..for a very long time. Go torque some big bolts...it will make you feel better.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> It was very hard for me to try and force a timeline. I can barely control myself. I want to collapse to my knees and cry. I realize there is no-one to listen and no-one who cares. Friends say, "Sorry Bro, I don't know what to say."
> 
> I'm getting nothing done at the shop. My life is a wreck. The only reason I can function at all is because I have hope I can work through things with her.
> 
> How can I get through these feelings? People say to act, leave, etc. I can not do it.


You are in a bad place! I was there when I found out my husband of 21 years had been cheating for 6 months! 

You need meds or you will be a hot mess for a very long time. I only took anti-depressants and anti- anxiety medications for the first 8 months and then my doctor helped me when them out when the worst of the storm my X's infidelity csused. 

You need to emotionally heal a lot of prior trauma with a bad ass therapist in order to be a much healthier YOU. To be very honest with you, meds and therapy helped me, but only God completely freed me. 

It is time to shift your focus to You first and foremost and then to your wife and marriage. Your attachment to your wife is very detrimental to your well being. No human can have that power over another person. It is unhealthy! You were fooling yourself when you acted withdrawn and unemotional; that is not the real you. If you were really like that, you wouldn't be an emotional wreck right now. 

I have been there. It is a terrible place to be. That was back in 2003. I promised my self I would never again give that much power to anther human being and I am proud to say that I have struggled with that, but I love myself more than I love anyone else. I have never lost myself in anyone else again. I learned my lesson the hard way. 

Whether your wife comes back and your marriage thrives, you will never give yourself to anyone at the expense of your own misery. Take that from this terrible blowyou are experiencing.

You have been in this pit before. Please be smart and get meds! This **** is bigger than you right now. I promise you that you will beat this. I survived it and now help others navigate the hell of not healing pasttraumas and relying on another to make MY happiness. Our happiness comes from within. Our loved ones only enhance our lives and happiness. They are not the center of our lives; we are. You need to get to that place. 

Do the 2 month trial of dating your separated spouse. Don't give her anymore power over your life! Take back that power by You putting the timeline to stop this hell she is causing in your life by abandoning you. Don't minimize what she has done. She left you emotionally when she went distant and sexually starved you. That was very cruel of her. 

Whether she did it because she is cheating or not, that is still cruel. She is blaming you for her leaving and becoming distant. That is sadly classic cheater tactic. It is very important that you get counseling for yourself. Your worst fear is actually only hurting you! 

You don't want to hear that she will leave you and divorce you because you are in denile Nickel Speed. She has physically and emotionally left you for several months now. 

When you start feeling overwhelmed because she may leave you, think straight and remind yourself the worst has already happened. She is already gone. You survived it dude. Now survive your healing one hour at a time if need be. You are stronger than you think, you just need better coping mechanisms to navigate bad situations that arrive into our lives and threaten our everyday well being.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> You are in a bad place! I was there when I found out my husband of 21 years had been cheating for 6 months!
> 
> You need meds or you will be a hot mess for a very long time. I only took anti-depressants and anti- anxiety medications for the first 8 months and then my doctor helped me when them out when the worst of the storm my X's infidelity csused.
> 
> You need to emotionally heal a lot of prior trauma with a bad ass therapist in order to be a much healthier YOU. To be very honest with you, meds and therapy helped me, but only God completely freed me.
> 
> It is time to shift your focus to You first and foremost and then to your wife and marriage. Your attachment to your wife is very detrimental to your well being. No human can have that power over another person. It is unhealthy! You were fooling yourself when you acted withdrawn and unemotional; that is not the real you. If you were really like that, you wouldn't be an emotional wreck right now.
> 
> I have been there. It is a terrible place to be. That was back in 2003. I promised my self I would never again give that much power to anther human being and I am proud to say that I have struggled with that, but I love myself more than I love anyone else. I have never lost myself in anyone else again. I learned my lesson the hard way.
> 
> Whether your wife comes back and your marriage thrives, you will never give yourself to anyone at the expense of your own misery. Take that from this terrible blowyou are experiencing.
> 
> You have been in this pit before. Please be smart and get meds! This **** is bigger than you right now. I promise you that you will beat this. I survived it and now help others navigate the hell of not healing pasttraumas and relying on another to make MY happiness. Our happiness comes from within. Our loved ones only enhance our lives and happiness. They are not the center of our lives; we are. You need to get to that place.
> 
> Do the 2 month trial of dating your separated spouse. Don't give her anymore power over your life! Take back that power by You putting the timeline to stop this hell she is causing in your life by abandoning you. Don't minimize what she has done. She left you emotionally when she went distant and sexually starved you. That was very cruel of her.
> 
> Whether she did it because she is cheating or not, that is still cruel. She is blaming you for her leaving and becoming distant. That is sadly classic cheater tactic. It is very important that you get counseling for yourself. Your worst fear is actually only hurting you!
> 
> You don't want to hear that she will leave you and divorce you because you are in denile Nickel Speed. She has physically and emotionally left you for several months now.
> 
> When you start feeling overwhelmed because she may leave you, think straight and remind yourself the worst has already happened. She is already gone. You survived it dude. Now survive your healing one hour at a time if need be. You are stronger than you think, you just need better coping mechanisms to navigate bad situations that arrive into our lives and threaten our everyday well being.


God will not help. I am not religious. Even recently I tried reading the bible. I do not believe it to be true, even thought I wanted to. This was always the case.

I do not think medicating is the answer. I can't see how temporarily numbing myself to pain would make me a better man. 

Therapy might help, but I am very skeptic and it is the last thing on my mind. 

I know my attachment is unhealthy. I thought I needed to feel connected with my wife, so I gave her my heart and my soul. I gave her everything I had.

You say I survived, but I am still living the reality. I am still in the battle. Maybe these are all just excuses, but this is what I feel.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> God will not help. I am not religious. Even recently I tried reading the bible. I do not believe it to be true, even thought I wanted to. This was always the case.
> 
> I do not think *medicating is the answer*. I can't see how temporarily numbing myself to pain would make me a better man.


I don't think Bibi meant going on a bender.  Antidepressants do not numb anything. They do help gain a little leverage on the immobility that can come with depression.



> Therapy might help, but I am very skeptic and it is the last thing on my mind.


Why? If it may help, why NOT think about it?


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't think Bibi meant going on a bender.  Antidepressants do not numb anything. They do help gain a little leverage on the immobility that can come with depression.
> 
> 
> Why? If it may help, why NOT think about it?


I thought about it. I don't want to go. Opening up to a stranger who I have no reason to trust or confide in and lives near me is too much. So I go, say "I'm getting divorced." Then say nothing else?


----------



## wilson

One thing that may help your mental state immediately is to do intense physical exercise in an environment with other people. Do something like boot camp, boxing, MMA fighting, etc. Don't do solitary activities like running, weight lifting, biking, etc. since it's easy to get lost in your own negative thoughts and feelings. Do something where someone is telling you what to do ("give me 40 pushups!") or you're working with someone else (boxing) since that will keep your mind focused on the task. You'll get the benefits of clearing your mind as well as the positive physical and mental benefits of exercise. The more intense the exercise, the better you will feel.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> One thing that may help your mental state immediately is to do intense physical exercise in an environment with other people. Do something like boot camp, boxing, MMA fighting, etc. Don't do solitary activities like running, weight lifting, biking, etc. since it's easy to get lost in your own negative thoughts and feelings. Do something where someone is telling you what to do ("give me 40 pushups!") or you're working with someone else (boxing) since that will keep your mind focused on the task. You'll get the benefits of clearing your mind as well as the positive physical and mental benefits of exercise. The more intense the exercise, the better you will feel.



I have always liked the idea of trying MMA. I think about going, but the two near places I have looked at going are full of tools and douche-bags. Maybe I should try anyway.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I have always liked the idea of trying MMA. I think about going, but the two near places I have looked at going are full of tools and douche-bags. Maybe I should try anyway.


Full of tools and douche-bags? Perfect! Think about how satisfying it will be to punch them in the face repeatedly.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She would not let me see her phone during lunch. It is new, so I asked to play with it. She was adamant about no.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> She would not let me see her phone during lunch. It is new, so I asked to play with it. She was adamant about no.


There you go.... She'll tell exactly what to do. 
If you listen hard enough.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> She would not let me see her phone during lunch. It is new, so I asked to play with it. She was adamant about no.


Well, crap.


----------



## farsidejunky

Nickel Speed said:


> She would not let me see her phone during lunch. It is new, so I asked to play with it. She was adamant about no.


That tells you all you need to know, Nickel. 

Love yourself enough to refuse to tolerate the intolerable. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickel Speed

This is not new. She has never let me see her phones.


----------



## Tasorundo

Did she give you a timeline?


----------



## Tasorundo

Do you happen to have any of her old phones at the house? You could possible turn them on and see what is on them. You don't need to have active service to see that.


----------



## farsidejunky

Nickel Speed said:


> This is not new. She has never let me see her phones.


This would have been incredibly relevant to tell folks in your first few posts.

Garbage In->Garbage Out

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickel Speed

Tasorundo said:


> Do you happen to have any of her old phones at the house? You could possible turn them on and see what is on them. You don't need to have active service to see that.


She trades in old phones for new.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Tasorundo said:


> Did she give you a timeline?


I did not get a timeline yet.

I told her I would stop pressuring her to work on things and talking about the relationship. It was clearly stressing her out. She was supposed to stay with me tonight. She changed her mind because of talk I had with her yesterday. Then we can just focus on having fun again to fix marriage.


----------



## Tasorundo

This whole thing stinks. It seems terribly unfair to you, if she wanted to work on the marriage there should be a plan, you are not asking for anything unrealistic.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> This whole thing stinks. It seems terribly unfair to you, *if she wanted to work on the marriage* there should be a plan, you are not asking for anything unrealistic.


But that's the thing. She DIDN'T. He begged.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> But that's the thing. She DIDN'T. He begged.


This is true.

When I got news at first, she said she wanted to work. Instead, she went cold and angry no matter what I did for months.

Then she told me she needed to leave. I argued. It made things worse.

Finally, I sat with her and told her I did not want to be selfish. I wanted to make her happy. If she must leave for space, I will help.

She then began to be pleasant. Finally she said that she wants to fix things, but sometimes I have hard time not pressuring her to return. 

Now I want to try to continue my life and let the cards drop wherever they fall. Hopefully she will return. It is the hardest thing I have ever done. I got a Master's degree in 3 years, served in the military, started a business, starved self to compete on stage, etc. But this is harder than all of the above.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I have one more suspicion.

Yesterday, she said she was going to bed. I called her via video chat on FB messenger. Messenger said I could not call her because she was already in a call. I told her this through text. She immediately called me back through the video chat.

She said that she was using phone as a hot spot. I do not know if this would prevent call from working. I suspect no-one here will know the answer.


----------



## Spicy

If her having always protected her phone from you and now refusing to even let you hold it _still_ isn’t enough for you, then hire a private investigator for a few days and you will have your answer quickly. 

Or just keep chasing her, making excuses and refusing to do anything different.


----------



## Nickel Speed

What is cost of PI? What can PI do that I can not?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> I have one more suspicion.
> 
> Yesterday, she said she was going to bed. I called her via video chat on FB messenger. Messenger said I could not call her because she was already in a call. I told her this through text. She immediately called me back through the video chat.
> 
> She said that she was using phone as a hot spot. I do not know if this would prevent call from working. I suspect no-one here will know the answer.


She was on a video chat with someone else. Phone hot spot has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> This is not new. She has never let me see her phones.


Take the phone and drive away. That will tell you were your marriage stands.


----------



## Bibi1031

NobodySpecial said:


> But that's the thing. She DIDN'T. He begged.


Exactly and indeed sad too. She is letting him off easy. She is done, but won't tell him that anymore because he can't assimilate it. Actions speak louder than words ever can in these cases and she has been very clear so far. He is being friend zoned for sure. No heavy talk because she is not interested in fixing anything. Why should she? He has accepted full blame for her abandonment of him and the marital home. 

Guard your heart Nickel Speed because it is going to get crushed. You can't control or change her; so work on YOU!

It is a bummer you don't believe in God, but that does not surprise me. That is why I mentioned Him last. I was being respectful at anyone who is not a believer, and I assumed you weren't. Guess my gut was right. 

The meds route and the professional therapy is then a must for sure. You don't believe in anything dude. I'm afraid healing is going to be rougher for you if you don't accept what the world has to offer to ease your suffering when coping with life's curve balls are on your side of the court so to speak.


----------



## Chaparral

Nickel Speed said:


> We agreed to not see others during this separation.
> 
> I don't find joy in anything else in life at this moment. Everything I thought was important does not seem to matter. I have tried to force myself to do things. It doesn't help. I haven't made any gains physically in a while either. My nerves have made it hard to function.


Think about this from a possible mate’s viewpoint. Does it sound attractive? You have to learn that only you and her can make yourselves happy. If you’re not living like you will be happy with or without her you are in a losing battle. Women like men who are confident and can lead. 

Get in shape, dress better, get a new haircut, some new clothes. They don’t have to be expensive to be attractive. Never stop being as attractive as possible. Make the world your oyster. 

You don’t need to give her a timeline. She left. You make your own timeline and keep it to yourself. You would would be better off letting her think you are slipping away. Be cheerful and mysterious. Do not bring up anything negative. 

Also check out amazon for a cheap
GPS and put on her car. 

It is not for certain she may be cheating but it definitely is possible she is . One out of three people have cheated or will cheat. Two of the most common phrase s here is “ my wife would never cheat” and “you guys were right.”


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> What is cost of PI? What can PI do that I can not?


A PI will follow her around when she thinks you are home. If she is seeing someone else on the sly it will not take long for a PI to show you pictures of the guy leaving her house at 7 AM or her leaving his. 

Google is your friend. Try it. A few hundred to start.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Chaparral said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> We agreed to not see others during this separation.
> 
> I don't find joy in anything else in life at this moment. Everything I thought was important does not seem to matter. I have tried to force myself to do things. It doesn't help. I haven't made any gains physically in a while either. My nerves have made it hard to function.
> 
> 
> 
> Think about this from a possible mate’s viewpoint. Does it sound attractive? You have to learn that only you and her can make yourselves happy. If you’re not living like you will be happy with or without her you are in a losing battle. Women like men who are confident and can lead.
> 
> Get in shape, dress better, get a new haircut, some new clothes. They don’t have to be expensive to be attractive. Never stop being as attractive as possible. Make the world your oyster.
> 
> You don’t need to give her a timeline. She left. You make your own timeline and keep it to yourself. You would would be better off letting her think you are slipping away. Be cheerful and mysterious. Do not bring up anything negative.
> 
> Also check out amazon for a cheap
> GPS and put on her car.
> 
> It is not for certain she may be cheating but it definitely is possible she is . One out of three people have cheated or will cheat. Two of the most common phrase s here is “ my wife would never cheat” and “you guys were right.”
Click to expand...

I know it is not attractive, but it is hard to overcome.

I'm in better shape that 98% of the population. I dress well and take care of myself physically. 

I did the GPS thing. Would not work after installed it. Cell coverage needed, and we have limited coverage here. Lots of mountains.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is cost of PI? What can PI do that I can not?
> 
> 
> 
> A PI will follow her around when she thinks you are home. If she is seeing someone else on the sly it will not take long for a PI to show you pictures of the guy leaving her house at 7 AM or her leaving his.
> 
> Google is your friend. Try it. A few hundred to start.
Click to expand...

Only found 1 in the nearby city. Ex sheriff. I'm considering it.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> I know it is not attractive, but it is hard to overcome.
> 
> I'm in better shape that 98% of the population. I dress well and take care of myself physically.
> 
> I did the GPS thing. Would not work after installed it. Cell coverage needed, and we have limited coverage here. Lots of mountains.


Cell coverage augments whats available from the GPS satellites and they cover the whole planet.

A real GPS will work just fine. If you can't afford a true GPS then connect the dots on what is recorded via cell towers. 

Study the maps of travel. Note how long time wise the gaps are, what roads the gaps are on and the speed limits on those roads and calculate whether she must have stopped somewhere or not. 

Drive the routes yourself and note the blind spots. 

As she darts in and out of coverage you will find a pattern and narrow it down to obvious locales. Being so mountainous there can only be so many possible addresses she is stopping at.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Our family does not know yet.
> .



It's time for the family to know. 

Stop enabling her.

It's time for some "reality intervention".

With no consequences for her actions you will only get more of the same.

Now that we have the "refusal of phone" info ...... you need to prepare yourself for the following: She is cheating ... or working towards it.

Prepare yourself now that this will become reality and not just words on this screen .....it's coming....guaranteed.


----------



## Mr.Married

You might be codependent if you:

-are unhappy in the relationship, but fear alternatives
-consistently neglect your own needs for the sake of theirs
-ditch friends and sideline your family to please your partner
-frequently seek out your partner’s approval
-critique yourself through your abuser’s eyes, ignoring your own instincts
-make a lot of sacrifices to please the other person, but it’s not reciprocated
-would rather live in the current state of chaos than be alone
-bite your tongue and repress your feelings to keep the peace
-feel responsible and take the blame for something they did
-defend your abuser when others point out what’s happening
-try to “rescue” them from themselves
-feel guilty when you stand up for yourself
-think you deserve this treatment
-believe that nobody else could ever want to be with you
-change your behavior in response to guilt; your abuser says, “I can’t live without you,” so you stay


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> I did not get a timeline yet.
> 
> I told her I would stop pressuring her to work on things and talking about the relationship. It was clearly stressing her out. She was supposed to stay with me tonight. She changed her mind because of talk I had with her yesterday. Then we can just focus on having fun again to fix marriage.


I guess you'll keep arranging those decks chairs on the Titanic until you're ready to face reality. You keep wanting to believe that the advice you've been getting by 'bitter divorced people' is incorrect, but your situation is pretty much *exactly* as we called it. As I said earlier, I've seen this story 1000 times and it pretty much always ends up the same way. 

The sooner you pull your head* out of the sand,* the better.


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> She said that she was using phone as a hot spot. I do not know if this would prevent call from working. I suspect no-one here will know the answer.


You married a *liar*.

She'd actually have you believe that she set her phone up as a mobile hot spot? What - the people in her apartment complex are all too poor to have their own internet, so this selfless philanthropist took her _own_ prepaid phone and turned it into a hot-spot in order to share her wireless signal with others? *That's *the bull**** story she gave you when she was obviously talking to her new love interest when you tried to call her?

You married a friggen *liar.*

But you know that. Somewhere down deep, you *know* it. You just don't want to face it.


----------



## Bibi1031

Of course he is codependent. Most of us that are coupled are to a certain degree. Most WS tend to have narcissistic tendencies as well. I really wish Nickel Speed would understand the value and importance of professional therapy. 

He came to this site looking for help. It was very hard for him to start seeing that his beloved is not who he wishes her to be. Hopefully, the anger stage of grief starts hitting him soon so that he can take the Rose colored glasses off and see just how selfish and deceiving a spouse that wants out can be. 

If someone tells you they are done, out of love for you, and move out; it behooves you to believe them. Denile is a terrible coping mechanism Nickel Speed. Add to that that she denied sex for months, was cold and distant, and even placed pretty much all the blame on you for her falling out of love, and you should pick up your backbone and start rebuilding yourself instead of fighting a battle to win back this damsel. She is already gone. By the time we find out our spouse thinks we are root of all their misery, we have already lost the war. With this said, stop fighting battles dude. It's treaty time. War is over. In marriage " treaty time" is filing and preparing for divorce. The separation she took care of. You simply make that separation legal now. 

There is nothing else left. She is gone dude! Make it official. It is not just the action of her not letting you see her phone. It is her whole demeaner and moving out that irrevocably shows this marriage is done. Please put a fork in it and set yourself free of the chains you keep piling up around your neck. You are only choking yourself, and she could care less. 

Find freedom!


----------



## Nickel Speed

She'sStillGotIt said:


> You married a *liar*.
> 
> She'd actually have you believe that she set her phone up as a mobile hot spot? What - the people in her apartment complex are all too poor to have their own internet, so this selfless philanthropist took her _own_ prepaid phone and turned it into a hot-spot in order to share her wireless signal with others? *That's *the bull**** story she gave you when she was obviously talking to her new love interest when you tried to call her?
> 
> You married a friggen *liar.*
> 
> But you know that. Somewhere down deep, you *know* it. You just don't want to face it.


I am 100% sure that she was using the phone as a hotspot. She had told me this weeks ago. She is using it for her laptop.
She lives in a duplex. It is only her and a family that just moved there also.

I did not know if that would interfere with the video call. From my research, it might.


----------



## Tasorundo

Here are my thoughts on it:

Whether she is or is not seeing someone else, she is not being fair or honest with you. You are getting a raw deal and just being kept on the hook. You are bearing all of the blame for the failing relationship and she is not having to carry any burden for fixing it. Even balking at you asking for a timeline and then punishing you by canceling plans.

At best it is terribly immature and selfish of her. At worst, you are plan B and she doesn't want to commit to anything until she tries plan A.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Tasorundo said:


> Here are my thoughts on it:
> 
> Whether she is or is not seeing someone else, she is not being fair or honest with you. You are getting a raw deal and just being kept on the hook. You are bearing all of the blame for the failing relationship and she is not having to carry any burden for fixing it. Even balking at you asking for a timeline and then punishing you by canceling plans.
> 
> At best it is terribly immature and selfish of her. At worst, you are plan B and she doesn't want to commit to anything until she tries plan A.




She admitted that she is also to blame, but I do not think/ feel she is doing anything about it. She does spend time with me, maybe that counts?


----------



## Chaparral

Two guys that work for me says they use their phone for a hotspot and you can still use the phone as a phone or to surf the internet at the same time. They have also said they used more than one provider to do it.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I did not know if that would interfere with the video call. From my research, it might.


I don't work for Facebook so I don't know for sure, but using the phone as a hotspot should have nothing to do with Facebook thinking she's on a call. If Facebook thinks she's on a call, it's because the Facebook computers think she's on a call. Facebook has no idea she's on a phone hotspot or anything.

One thing to keep in mind is that she is much further along in this process than you. How long ago did the no sex start? You said it was 4 months without sex, but when did that start? It was probably 5-6 months ago I guess. And her frustrations didn't start on that day. Likely she was frustrated for a while before then. So maybe 7-8 months for her. Maybe there was someone else at that time, maybe there wasn't, but that was a long time ago. Since then, she may have moved on emotionally and been thinking of starting over with someone else. So now today she may be talking with other people. For you this whole thing is a lot fresher, but she's been dealing with it for a long time already.

As you're working on this keep all that in mind. It's going to be very difficult to repair all the emotional damage. It's going to be very hard to rebuild intimacy. It's fine to try to fix things, but be realistic that there's a good chance it won't work out. 

If aliens flew down today and abducted her and you'd never see her again, how would you move on? Would you be single forever? Or would you start dating and start a life with someone new? Right now you probably think she's the only one for you, but likely you could find happiness with someone else.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> I don't work for Facebook so I don't know for sure, but using the phone as a hotspot should have nothing to do with Facebook thinking she's on a call. If Facebook thinks she's on a call, it's because the Facebook computers think she's on a call. Facebook has no idea she's on a phone hotspot or anything.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that she is much further along in this process than you. How long ago did the no sex start? You said it was 4 months without sex, but when did that start? It was probably 5-6 months ago I guess. And her frustrations didn't start on that day. Likely she was frustrated for a while before then. So maybe 7-8 months for her. Maybe there was someone else at that time, maybe there wasn't, but that was a long time ago. Since then, she may have moved on emotionally and been thinking of starting over with someone else. So now today she may be talking with other people. For you this whole thing is a lot fresher, but she's been dealing with it for a long time already.
> 
> As you're working on this keep all that in mind. It's going to be very difficult to repair all the emotional damage. It's going to be very hard to rebuild intimacy. It's fine to try to fix things, but be realistic that there's a good chance it won't work out.
> 
> If aliens flew down today and abducted her and you'd never see her again, how would you move on? Would you be single forever? Or would you start dating and start a life with someone new? Right now you probably think she's the only one for you, but likely you could find happiness with someone else.


I don't think I would ever trust again. I would probably hook up with random strange for the rest of my life. Aliens? I'd try to hook up with an alien.


----------



## Chaparral

Is she on the phone a lot when she is at your house? Does she leave the phone lying around or is it glued to her hand?


----------



## Nickel Speed

Chaparral said:


> Is she on the phone a lot when she is at your house? Does she leave the phone lying around or is it glued to her hand?


Yes. She stays on the phone a lot. She has almost always had it glued to her hand.


----------



## Bibi1031

I use my phone's not spot too when Will travel and need my tablet or laptop to do work. It does not interfere with phone calls or phone videos, texts, apps etc. You just share your WiFi like we do with our home internet.

Right now I am using my hot spot and my phone at the same time to answer texts on the phone and read here on TAM with my tablet. I am in a test stop in the middle of rural Texas. No problems with my hot spot or my phone messages and calls either.

...and my phone is prepaid too. I have cricket. It is one of the cheapest. Unlimited everything and hot spot for $35. No hidden fees or taxes either. It rocks at being good and dirt cheap!


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> I am 100% sure that she was using the phone as a hotspot. She had told me this weeks ago. She is using it for her laptop.
> She lives in a duplex. It is only her and a family that just moved there also.
> 
> I did not know if that would interfere with the video call. From my research, it might.


Well, you've just been given valuable information from people in the KNOW:* "Two guys that work for me says they use their phone for a hotspot and you can still use the phone as a phone or to surf the internet at the same time. They have also said they used more than one provider to do it."* 

And there you have it.

I stand by my post. Your wife is a *LIAR*. She was busy chatting with her new love interest and THAT'S why Facebook told you she was already IN A CALL - because she was already in a call.

You can keep swimming in the Delusion Pond or you can start being proactive. And for what it's worth, I'm willing to bet good money that any future aliens you hook up with will probably be more honest than your lying wife.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't think I would ever trust again. I would probably hook up with random strange for the rest of my life. Aliens? I'd try to hook up with an alien.


There are plenty of those by the border. Better get there before the big beautiful wall goes up.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Last night was hard.

The only thing that gives me any temporary relief from the pain is when I have her in my arms.

Being in our bed alone surrounded by memories kills me. This was the first night I stayed in the bed. I have been sleeping on the couch. Any advice for just surviving?


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> Last night was hard.
> 
> The only thing that gives me any temporary relief from the pain is when I have her in my arms.
> 
> Being in our bed alone surrounded by memories kills me. This was the first night I stayed in the bed. I have been sleeping on the couch. Any advice for just surviving?


Change the bedroom layout. Buy new bedding or toss the old bed and get a new one. Make your house yours now. Everything that reminds you of her is going to be hard. You are in mourning. Accept the pain as it is part of healing and letting go. Just make sure you are eating and sleeping well. You need your health and your strength. 

Hope for the best if you want (that your wife will come back), but start planning for the worse.

Sorry for the hard and painful firsts dude. Going from abandonment to healing is a painful journey, but one you have to go through. No majic pills or shortcuts for that.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Mattress is quite new. I built the bed myself not long ago. I don't want to get rid of it.

I can't sleep until I'm so tired that I just pass out. As soon as it's been a couple hours I wake up shaking or with panic attacks.

Eating causes me to be nauseous.


----------



## bunnahabhain

Hi Nickel Speed. I can't begin to imagine what you're going through. I'm sorry that you are experiencing so much pain.

I hope the best for you.

If I may add my $0.02 with your permission, I recommend seeing a therapist.

My situation is different. That being said, I had never gone to see a therapist before and now that I have I have understood the value that they can bring to the table. They can help you better understand yourself and, for me, that is helping me make better choices for myself.


----------



## Uriel

NSpeed, 

Salutations...
Many people have chimed in and paid you nostalgic SOUND advice. Now it's what you do with this sound advive that will define you as a Man for the rest of your life and future relationships. It's gut wrenching beyound anything anyone should ever have to experence, but here you have it, deserve has nothing to do with it. Time for you to take action, and taking no action at all is really a choice of action. Please just remember it will Define your future


----------



## Nickel Speed

bunnahabhain said:


> Hi Nickel Speed. I can't begin to imagine what you're going through. I'm sorry that you are experiencing so much pain.
> 
> I hope the best for you.
> 
> If I may add my $0.02 with your permission, I recommend seeing a therapist.
> 
> My situation is different. That being said, I had never gone to see a therapist before and now that I have I have understood the value that they can bring to the table. They can help you better understand yourself and, for me, that is helping me make better choices for myself.



Our situations are similar in many ways. I have read your thread. I feel sorry for your situation, even if you caused it too. The core is, we have made our wives unhappy, they want out (probably) because they can not trust that we can change.

I know I am changing... permanently. But I fear it is too late, and now I am dying.



Uriel said:


> NSpeed,
> 
> Salutations...
> Many people have chimed in and paid you nostalgic SOUND advice. Now it's what you do with this sound advive that will define you as a Man for the rest of your life and future relationships. It's gut wrenching beyound anything anyone should ever have to experence, but here you have it, deserve has nothing to do with it. Time for you to take action, and taking no action at all is really a choice of action. Please just remember it will Define your future


The problem is choosing the correct action. I'm still lost, even after this advice.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> Here are my thoughts on it:
> 
> Whether she is or is not seeing someone else, she is not being fair or honest with you. You are getting a raw deal and just being kept on the hook.


This is not an accurate or fair assessment. I imagine we don't know the whole story. BUT. She was DONE until HE begged her to reconsider. SHE is not keeping him on the kook, he is.



> You are bearing all of the blame for the failing relationship and she is not having to carry any burden for fixing it. Even balking at you asking for a timeline and then punishing you by canceling plans.


Blame shmame. She is trying to figure out HER life. If HE decides to see it as punishment, that is on him. She does not carry the burden for fixing it because she did not want it fixed.



> At best it is terribly immature and selfish of her. At worst, you are plan B and she doesn't want to commit to anything until she tries plan A.


I would bet a dollar it is something else... guilt. taking marriage seriously so considering "one more try"...


----------



## Chaparral

Since why your are trying isn’t working, to see a good doctor. They have seen this countless times as they do with helping people get through the death of a loved one. 

Over the counter you can buy melatonin a natural product of the body, to help you sleep. I’m sure it doesn’t work as well as prescriptions but it helps me for a few hours. Costco has some really good stuff. 

Don’t be too stubborn to see a therapist. A good one is worth their weight in gold. There was s also a good chance you have developed PTSD and there are treatments like EMDR that work wonders. She f your emotions are out of control you are not going to have any chance of saving this anyway.


----------



## Uriel

..."It's about respect"
You are showing respect to someone who is careless with your heart. Maybe she is enjoying it in a sick way...maybe your enjoying in a sick way. Either way it is "Toxic", very unhealthy. You are letting her play a game with your heart & soul, you are financing your abuse, only you can stop what you are allowing to continue, only you can make choices to define you. It's not easy at all...but when you do make the decession to stop this, you will feel the weight of the world lifted from you...you get a glimsp of peace that will start to grow.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> Our situations are similar in many ways. I have read your thread. I feel sorry for your situation, even if you caused it too. The core is, we have made our wives unhappy, they want out (probably) because they can not trust that we can change.
> 
> I know I am changing... permanently. But I fear it is too late, and now I am dying.


You know. I can honestly say that I don't get this. I think what you need to ask yourself going forward is, if you love her SO much that it is killing you to lose her, what stopped you from taking her concerns seriously when she voiced them? I am not trying to bust your chops. You are in the company of many people, often men, who you hear after the **** hits the fan, I never thought it was THAT BAD that she would leave me. This is a really low bar. Don't be that guy in your next relationship



> The problem is choosing the correct action. I'm still lost, even after this advice.


Therapy. Really. I can't fathom why you say you can't afford it, but up thread you seem perfectly willing to spend money on a PI. Let her go. If SHE wants to come back and work on the marriage with both of you doing what you can, including marriage counseling, that is one thing. But it is not looking like that. Get therapy to help to deal with the grief and, going forward, to have better relationship skills.


----------



## bunnahabhain

Nickel Speed said:


> Our situations are similar in many ways. I have read your thread. I feel sorry for your situation, even if you caused it too. The core is, we have made our wives unhappy, they want out (probably) because they can not trust that we can change.
> 
> I know I am changing... permanently. But I fear it is too late, and now I am dying.


It sucks dude. It really does.

It's like you're making this change and you want the person you love to benefit. You can't even imagine your next love. You're not even interested in other women.

So you're doing the work and you feel it's for nothing.

It's not for nothing. It's for you.

I'm no expert on this stuff. The opposite. I'm pretty bad at being a husband.

From what I've read and what others have told me, she needs the freedom to rediscover herself and figure out her path. We need that same freedom too.

Don't do it for her. Do it for yourself.

If you can commit, if I can truly, truly commit, then we have gained so much.

Let me know if you got my response to your PM. For some reason, my sent folder is empty even though I've responded to at least two PMs.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our situations are similar in many ways. I have read your thread. I feel sorry for your situation, even if you caused it too. The core is, we have made our wives unhappy, they want out (probably) because they can not trust that we can change.
> 
> I know I am changing... permanently. But I fear it is too late, and now I am dying.
> 
> 
> 
> You know. I can honestly say that I don't get this. I think what you need to ask yourself going forward is, if you love her SO much that it is killing you to lose her, what stopped you from taking her concerns seriously when she voiced them? I am not trying to bust your chops. You are in the company of many people, often men, who you hear after the **** hits the fan, I never thought it was THAT BAD that she would leave me. This is a really low bar. Don't be that guy in your next relationship
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is choosing the correct action. I'm still lost, even after this advice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Therapy. Really. I can't fathom why you say you can't afford it, but up thread you seem perfectly willing to spend money on a PI. Let her go. If SHE wants to come back and work on the marriage with both of you doing what you can, including marriage counseling, that is one thing. But it is not looking like that. Get therapy to help to deal with the grief and, going forward, to have better relationship skills.
Click to expand...

When she voiced her concerns, I did not realize how deep down they affected her or what it really meant to her. I did not truly know how she felt. It's not that I didn't try to do better. I did, but I didn't see how serious the problem was. I didn't realize I needed to change myself on a core level. 

When reality sinks in with what you are losing and what you have done, it inspires a willingness to sacrifice and change that you could not imagine. Every day I feel the burden of guilt. I also feel the fear of losing the only person I've ever cared about. Noone else has ever been there for me. I know it is selfish to not let her go, but I can't let go. I am trying.


----------



## wilson

From what I've learned in this thread:

- You work out
- Are in good shape
- Own your own business
- Work on cars
- Make your own furniture

That's quite an impressive list. You have a lot of the qualities that women would drool over. If you take to heart the personal growth from this experience, you'll have no problem meeting someone new. It'd be great if things work out with your wife, but don't get so wrapped up in her that you think she's the only one and you have to do everything possible to get her back. We call that 'oneitus'. There are many great women out there. It's clear that you'd be a great catch and I expect women would be fighting over you.

I'm sure your wife is loving feeling that she's the center of your attention. Who does't love that? But sometimes women can take advantage of that and pressure you to keep putting her on a higher and higher pedestal. If she knows that your whole world revolves around her, the relationship will become one sided in an unhealthy way.

So as you're trying to work it out with your wife, be sure to remember all the great qualities you have. That'll help reduce the thoughts that you have to get back with her or else you'll never meet someone else. Whether it's space aliens or the women at the grocery store, there's a lot of them out there.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I also did not hire a PI because it is unaffordable, but I was curious. It would be good to know. Maybe it would help me be angry. Maybe it would help me move on.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> From what I've learned in this thread:
> 
> - You work out
> - Are in good shape
> - Own your own business
> - Work on cars
> - Make your own furniture
> 
> That's quite an impressive list. You have a lot of the qualities that women would drool over. If you take to heart the personal growth from this experience, you'll have no problem meeting someone new. It'd be great if things work out with your wife, but don't get so wrapped up in her that you think she's the only one and you have to do everything possible to get her back. We call that 'oneitus'. There are many great women out there. It's clear that you'd be a great catch and I expect women would be fighting over you.
> 
> I'm sure your wife is loving feeling that she's the center of your attention. Who does't love that? But sometimes women can take advantage of that and pressure you to keep putting her on a higher and higher pedestal. If she knows that your whole world revolves around her, the relationship will become one sided in an unhealthy way.
> 
> So as you're trying to work it out with your wife, be sure to remember all the great qualities you have. That'll help reduce the thoughts that you have to get back with her or else you'll never meet someone else. Whether it's space aliens or the women at the grocery store, there's a lot of them out there.



I'm not worried about my ability to get another. I'm worried about the one I love and how I have failed her as a husband.


----------



## Tasorundo

NobodySpecial said:


> This is not an accurate or fair assessment. I imagine we don't know the whole story. BUT. She was DONE until HE begged her to reconsider. SHE is not keeping him on the kook, he is.


So, she cannot say no? She can say I am leaving you and moving out, but cannot say we are done?


----------



## NobodySpecial

Tasorundo said:


> So, she cannot say no? She can say I am leaving you and moving out, but cannot say we are done?


Think about this, seriously. Someone you love(d) is ASKING. How hard is your heart? It would likely be better for him in the short term if she did draw a hard line. But lord knows she has taken care of him this long...


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Think about this, seriously. Someone you love(d) is ASKING. How hard is your heart? It would likely be better for him in the short term if she did draw a hard line. But lord knows she has taken care of him this long...




What do you mean by taken care of me? She shut me out completely for two months. Before that, I was fine and I thought we both were mostly. We had the occasional argument in our relationship, but it NEVER involved screaming. Many times it was even playful bickering.

I only want to know in case I missed something. Since the news of her wanting to leave, she has worked at trying to calm me down sometimes if this is the thing you mean. I think she only feels guilty. She said she thinks she can learn to love me again. I'm finding it hard to hold up my end of the deal because I can't control these overwhelming emotions and fear.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> *What do you mean by taken care of me?* She shut me out completely for two months. Before that, I was fine and I thought we both were mostly. We had the occasional argument in our relationship, but it NEVER involved screaming. Many times it was even playful bickering.
> 
> I only want to know in case I missed something. Since the news of her wanting to leave, she has worked at trying to calm me down sometimes if this is the thing you mean. I think she only feels guilty. She said she thinks she can learn to love me again. I'm finding it hard to hold up my end of the deal because I can't control these overwhelming emotions and fear.


Sorry. I had you mixed up with someone else.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> I also did not hire a PI because it is unaffordable, but I was curious. It would be good to know. Maybe it would help me be angry. Maybe it would help me move on.


Why not just show up at her place unannounced with some flowers or something. See what's going on. You don't need a PI for that.


----------



## NobodySpecial

sokillme said:


> Why not just show up at her place unannounced with some flowers or something. See what's going on. You don't need a PI for that.


Inability to keep his word (by his own mouth) and love bombing sounds like it would only drive her farther away.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> What do you mean by taken care of me? She shut me out completely for two months. Before that, I was fine and I thought we both were mostly. We had the occasional argument in our relationship, but it NEVER involved screaming. Many times it was even playful bickering.


Wait. Why are you bringing up screaming? I hear the fine "mostly". Like still, it was not "that bad". I wonder if you really "get it" or are you just going to do and say anything in the hopes of getting her back?



> I only want to know in case I missed something. Since the news of her wanting to leave, she has worked at trying to calm me down sometimes if this is the thing you mean. I think she only feels guilty. She said she thinks she can learn to love me again. I'm finding it hard to hold up my end of the deal because I can't control these overwhelming emotions and fear.


You can't control your emotions. Yet she is going to try and learn to love you again. Let her go. For HER. The person you CLAIM to love.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I'm finding it hard to hold up my end of the deal because I can't control these overwhelming emotions and fear.


If you want to control these feelings, you *must* start talking with someone about them. Find a therapist. They now even have them online where you can do video chat sessions. Expressing these feelings with another person will help get them out of your head and make them less intense. 

This website is sponsored by https://family-marriage-counseling.com. They have a link for on-line therapists. Or do some google searching. There are lots of similar services. You can do however many sessions you need and they don't cost all that much--certainly less than a divorce.


----------



## sokillme

NobodySpecial said:


> Inability to keep his word (by his own mouth) and love bombing sounds like it would only drive her farther away.


Can she really be father away though? Just show up needing to talk then. This is hard because I don't get this anyway. I don't want to be with anyone who doesn't want to be with me. If there is a question in their mind I think it's time to move on at least until they figure it out.


----------



## NobodySpecial

sokillme said:


> Can she really be father away though?


It is not kind TO HER nor is it helpful TO HIM. So how is it good advice?


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> I'm finding it hard to hold up my end of the deal because I can't control these overwhelming emotions and fear.


You need to have courage. Here is the secret though courage is not being without fear, it's just means doing what you have to fear or not. Have courage and move forward my friend even if you knees are knocking.


----------



## sokillme

NobodySpecial said:


> It is not kind TO HER nor is it helpful TO HIM. So how is it good advice?


Well if he is thinking he needs to hire a PI but can't afford it it's a lot kinder then passive aggressively doing nothing. We are talking about just showing up one night to talk, she will be fine. It's not going to be a deal breaker. And if she has someone else there it's the kindest most helpful thing for both of them to get that out in the open.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait. Why are you bringing up screaming? I hear the fine "mostly". Like still, it was not "that bad". I wonder if you really "get it" or are you just going to do and say anything in the hopes of getting her back?
> 
> 
> 
> You can't control your emotions. Yet she is going to try and learn to love you again. Let her go. For HER. The person you CLAIM to love.



I mean that we never argued badly. There was no violence of any sort. We always made up shortly after and apologized. I had no idea she didn't mean what she said when we made up. I had no idea she was hurting.


I can't control my fear and crying. I do love her. I've tried letting her go. I offered her a clean cut divorce. I begged many nights, but I also gave her the option to just end it. I made it very clear I wanted her to be happy. It was then that she decided she would try to work on things, but she needed space. She would not give up her new place and return home. She said it gave her a safety net. I agreed, but her being away has made it even harder on me.

I want to let her go, but I can't. I go in to panic mode. I have an anxiety attack, I can't move or breath. I can't stop shaking. I can't do anything.

But when she is around, I am at peace. I am better. The world is right.

At the same time, I want what is best for her. Whether you believe that or not.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Wait. Why are you bringing up screaming? *I hear the fine "mostly". Like still, it was not "that bad". I wonder if you really "get it"* or are you just going to do and say anything in the hopes of getting her back?


I get it. This is what I was thinking at the time. This is not what I think currently now that I know what she felt.


----------



## Nickel Speed

wilson said:


> If you want to control these feelings, you *must* start talking with someone about them. Find a therapist. They now even have them online where you can do video chat sessions. Expressing these feelings with another person will help get them out of your head and make them less intense.
> 
> This website is sponsored by https://family-marriage-counseling.com. They have a link for on-line therapists. Or do some google searching. There are lots of similar services. You can do however many sessions you need and they don't cost all that much--certainly less than a divorce.


This is partly why I am here discussing my feelings.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> I mean that we never argued badly. There was no violence of any sort. We always made up shortly after and apologized. I had no idea she didn't mean what she said when we made up. I had no idea she was hurting.
> 
> 
> I can't control my fear and crying. I do love her. I've tried letting her go. I offered her a clean cut divorce. I begged many nights, but I also gave her the option to just end it. I made it very clear I wanted her to be happy. It was then that she decided she would try to work on things, but she needed space. She would not give up her new place and return home. She said it gave her a safety net. I agreed, but her being away has made it even harder on me.
> 
> I want to let her go, but I can't. I go in to panic mode. I have an anxiety attack, I can't move or breath. I can't stop shaking. I can't do anything.
> 
> But when she is around, I am at peace. I am better. The world is right.
> 
> At the same time, I want what is best for her. Whether you believe that or not.


You can't make her want to be with you. You can't nice her back. What exactly does this relationship bring to you NOW as it stands besides nostalgia. You don't seem happy that is for sure. 

Save this post so you can remember all she put you though if you find out there has always been another man in the picture since this all started. 

This person is not your only path to happiness.


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> Can she really be father away though? Just show up needing to talk then. This is hard because I don't get this anyway. I don't want to be with anyone who doesn't want to be with me. If there is a question in their mind I think it's time to move on at least until they figure it out.


Until I met her, I would have said the same thing.

And I hope you never have to experience what I feel now.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> I mean that we never argued badly. There was no violence of any sort. We always made up shortly after and apologized. I had no idea she didn't mean what she said when we made up. I had no idea she was hurting.
> 
> 
> I can't control my fear and crying. I do love her. I've tried letting her go. I offered her a clean cut divorce. I begged many nights, but I also gave her the option to just end it. I made it very clear I wanted her to be happy. It was then that she decided she would try to work on things, but she needed space. She would not give up her new place and return home. She said it gave her a safety net. I agreed, but her being away has made it even harder on me.
> 
> I want to let her go, but I can't. I go in to panic mode. I have an anxiety attack, I can't move or breath. I can't stop shaking. I can't do anything.
> 
> But when she is around, I am at peace. I am better. The world is right.


That is RIGHTEOUSLY unhealthy. For you. But also for her. If she were posting here, I would tell her to RUN. RUN. RUN. 




> At the same time, I want what is best for her. Whether you believe that or not.


Of course I believe it. The conflict seems very real to you. 

Remind me why you are resisting therapy again? Your much earlier comment about not going to the doc makes me wonder if you do not have health insurance?


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> You can't make her want to be with you. You can't nice her back. What exactly does this relationship bring to you NOW as it stands besides nostalgia. You don't seem happy that is for sure.
> 
> Save this post so you can remember all she put you though if you find out there has always been another man in the picture since this all started.
> 
> This person is not your only path to happiness.


She brings me relief from my pain. Temporary light to my dark times.

She brings me the hope of a future together even better than the amazing past we share. I can't give up on someone I let down in the first place.

It's clear you've not been here.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Until I met her, I would have said the same thing.
> 
> And I hope you never have to experience what I feel now.


Just between you and me I always think part of the pain in this is you are behaving in a way that is going against what you believe is part of your character. You think all of the pain is because of love but really a lot of the pain is you know you are making a decision that is out of fear and that decision is causing you to go against a core belief you had about yourself and you character. If you deal with the fear then you can make the decision that will allow you actions to re-align with who you feel you are as a person. I think you will be surprised how fast you will recover if you do that. 

I don't think acting fundamentally against your core beliefs is a good strategy for healing. By the way you have been doing that this whole time and it hasn't helped your fear has it. The only way to get over the fear is to conquer it not defer to it. 

You could have done things better that's true, but you need to have a partner that is working in good faith with you to have a relationship. You wife seems to be lukewarm about you, and much warmer about being on her own. That is not how marriage works. What you have now is not a marriage. Take agency back in your life. Start moving one and see if you start to feel less afraid. That doesn't even mean dating or divorcing if you are not there yet, but how about doing stuff for you that you always wanted to do. Take a trip with friends, join some group with your free time. Move on, and she will either come with you or you will see it's OK to leave her behind.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> She brings me relief from my pain. Temporary light to my dark times.
> 
> She brings me the hope of a future together even better than the amazing past we share. I *can't *give up on someone I let down in the first place.


You keep talking about what you CAN'T do. It would be really helpful if you knew why you felt you "can't". Sometimes every grown up has to do hard things. Really, f'ing hard things. ANd if one "can't", no matter if it is right, there is a Big Problem.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> That is RIGHTEOUSLY unhealthy. For you. But also for her. If she were posting here, I would tell her to RUN. RUN. RUN.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course I believe it. The conflict seems very real to you.
> 
> Remind me why you are resisting therapy again? Your much earlier comment about not going to the doc makes me wonder if you do not have health insurance?


Well, thanks for making it sound like I am a psycho that would lock her up in my basement. I'm here to discuss my deepest feelings. I'm not a crazy person.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> Well, thanks for making it sound like I am a psycho that would lock her up in my basement. I'm here to discuss my deepest feelings. I'm not a crazy person.


And your deepest feelings are unhealthy. Do you get angry at someone who suggests you go to the doc for a cold? WHAT???? Are you calling me SICK??? I am not calling you a psycho. I am saying your feelings are unhealthy for you and for her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> You keep talking about what you CAN'T do. It would be really helpful if you knew why you felt you "can't". Sometimes every grown up has to do hard things. Really, f'ing hard things. ANd if one "can't", no matter if it is right, there is a Big Problem.


Why would it be right to give up when I believe we are better with each other? We both have made mistakes.Why should I reside to the idea that the mistakes we made are irreparable?


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> And your deepest feelings are unhealthy. Do you get angry at someone who suggests you go to the doc for a cold? WHAT???? Are you calling me SICK??? I am not calling you a psycho. I am saying your feelings are unhealthy for you and for her.


I'm not angry. I could not understand why you would tell her to run. 

My having panic attacks about her abandoning me are unhealthy for her?


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> She brings me relief from my pain. Temporary light to my dark times.
> 
> She brings me the hope of a future together even better than the amazing past we share. I can't give up on someone I let down in the first place.
> 
> It's clear you've not been here.


I broke up with the girl I proposed to after she cheated on me, I ghosted her completely convinced that I would be single for the rest of my life. I was only in my 20s. I though all romantic love was lost for me because it had taken me that long to find someone I was willing to want to be with in the first place. 

Again I had no hope what so ever. People would tell me your life is not over and I laughed at them. Maybe for you not me though. What I had was special, I thought. 

It took a good year before I started to see that my thinking was wrong. I married my current wife about 2 and half years later. I have been happily married for over 15 years now. 

I was exactly where you are. I was calling this girl just to get the few hours of relief where I felt just a little bit of the closeness I had before she cheated. But I also knew what kind of man I wanted to be, (now this part is different I grant you that) I didn't want to be the kind of man that could let someone do that to me and still stay with them. Besides I could tell it would never be the same, actually it never was what I thought it was. But the thing that made me move on was looking myself in the mirror and assessing who I wanted to be, what could I live with as far as my own personal honor. 

THAT was more important then even love or happiness. So I essentially gave up the potential for any romantic love (at least that was what I truly believed) and I moved forward. Even though it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It was the most painful but it was also the most courageous. And I say that as someone who had to rescue someone from a handgun in the street once (long story). I look back at that with pride, not pain. I also gained so much strength from doing it. It set the tone for the rest of my romantic life. Because of going through that none of my actions with my wife are born out of fear, I am completely authentic about my needs and we have a better relationship because of that. I never fear brake up because nothing could be worse and I survived and thrived. 

I am not saying that this is easy at all, this is probably the point in your life when you will need the most courage. But you can't make your wife want to be with you, and right now she doesn't want to be with you, at least the way you want her to. I am not even saying give up, I am saying don't put all your hope in her, allow yourself to believe there is also the possibility of better even without her. Even that would be better then were you are now. I am saying acknowledge the pain and suffering but don't call her. Don't pine away from her, go out and be miserable but GO OUT. Work on your issue sure, but Give up on the outcome and see what happens. Treat it like chemo therapy, it's painful but in the end you are doing this to get better. The goal is to be a better man and eventually husband, but it's up to your wife, and also you who you are going to be that for. 

Accept that is going to suck, you are going to suffer, but this too will pass and your life is not dependent on her love. Because it's not I promise you.


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> I broke up with the girl I proposed to after she cheated on me, I ghosted her completely convinced that I would be single for the rest of my life. I was only in my 20s. I though all romantic love was lost for me because it had taken me that long to find someone I was willing to want to be with in the first place.
> 
> Again I had no hope what so ever. People would tell me your life is not over and I laughed at them. Maybe for you not me though. What I had was special, I thought.
> 
> It took a good year before I started to see that my thinking was wrong. I married my current wife about 2 and half years later. I have been happily married for over 15 years now.
> 
> I was exactly where you are. I was calling this girl just to get the few hours of relief where I felt just a little bit of the closeness I had before she cheated. But I also knew what kind of man I wanted to be, (now this part is different I grant you that) I didn't want to be the kind of man that could let someone do that to me and still stay with them. Besides I could tell it would never be the same, actually it never was what I thought it was. But the thing that made me move on was looking myself in the mirror and assessing who I wanted to be, what could I live with as far as my own personal honor.
> 
> THAT was more important then even love or happiness. So I essentially gave up the potential for any romantic love (at least that was what I truly believed) and I moved forward. Even though it was the hardest thing I have ever had to do. It was the most painful but it was also the most courageous. And I say that as someone who had to rescue someone from a handgun in the street once (long story). I look back at that with pride, not pain. I also gained so much strength from doing it. It set the tone for the rest of my romantic life. Because of going through that none of my actions with my wife are born out of fear, I am completely authentic about my needs and we have a better relationship because of that. I never fear brake up because nothing could be worse and I survived and thrived.
> 
> I am not saying that this is easy at all, this is probably the point in your life when you will need the most courage. But you can't make your wife want to be with you, and right now she doesn't want to be with you, at least the way you want her to. I am not even saying give up, I am saying don't put all your hope in her, allow yourself to believe there is also the possibility of better even without her. Even that would be better then were you are now. I am saying acknowledge the pain and suffering but don't call her. Don't pine away from her, go out and be miserable but GO OUT. Work on your issue sure, but Give up on the outcome and see what happens. Treat it like chemo therapy, it's painful but in the end you are doing this to get better. The goal is to be a better man and eventually husband, but it's up to your wife, and also you who you are going to be that for.
> 
> Accept that is going to suck, you are going to suffer, but this too will pass and your life is not dependent on her love. Because it's not I promise you.




If I knew without a shadow of a doubt that she cheated on me, I could bring myself to move on. 

Thanks for this comment however.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> Why would it be right to give up when I believe we are better with each other? We both have made mistakes.Why should I reside to the idea that the mistakes we made are irreparable?


What do you think she believes when she has to try to fall back in love with you? I don't think, even now, you give a rat's behind what she wants/needs/believes or feels. That just is not part of what you are capable of putting on your radar. It is all about YOU getting her back for YOU. 

Marriage and relationships are partnerships. You are not partner material right now. 

I wish you the best.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> If I knew without a shadow of a doubt that she cheated on me, I could bring myself to move on.
> 
> Thanks for this comment however.


You also knew you would never chase after a women who didn't want you until now. Again you cause yourself conflict when you act against your core beliefs. 

I didn't say move on, I said move forward and see if she follows.

At the end of the day we can post and you can want with all your heart. If she doesn't want it too there is nothing you can do anyway. The best thing YOU can do is accept that.


----------



## NobodySpecial

sokillme said:


> You also knew you would never chase after a women who didn't want you until now. Again you cause yourself conflict when you act against your core beliefs.
> 
> I didn't say move on, I said move forward and see if she follows.
> 
> At the end of the day we can post and you can want with all your heart. If she doesn't want it too there is nothing you can do anyway. The best thing YOU can do is accept that.


This too.


----------



## farsidejunky

Nickel Speed said:


> Our situations are similar in many ways. I have read your thread. I feel sorry for your situation, even if you caused it too. The core is, we have made our wives unhappy, they want out (probably) because they can not trust that we can change.
> 
> 
> 
> I know I am changing... permanently. But I fear it is too late, and now I am dying.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is choosing the correct action. I'm still lost, even after this advice.


One's happiness is up to that individual. 

"If any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone."

-Epicetus

To be happy is a choice, even if that means your wife may have needed to leave you in order to find it.

That said, that is not yours to own. Only your actions are, versus her reaction to them.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Nickel Speed

farsidejunky said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> That said, that is not yours to own. Only your actions are, versus her reaction to them.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> You lost me here. I don't comprehend the sentence.
Click to expand...


----------



## farsidejunky

Own your actions. 

Do not own hers. 

Own your emotions. 

Do not own hers. 

Own your happiness.

Do not own hers.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## farsidejunky

Read and learn.

https://psychcentral.com/blog/we-are-responsible-for-our-own-feelings/

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Bibi1031

sokillme said:


> Well if he is thinking he needs to hire a PI but can't afford it it's a lot kinder then passive aggressively doing nothing. We are talking about just showing up one night to talk, she will be fine. It's not going to be a deal breaker. And if she has someone else there it's the kindest most helpful thing for both of them to get that out in the open.


 @sokillme, she is emotionally disconnected from him. As soon as he talks about them or gets emotional\vulnerable in any way; she bails and shuts down. She can't handle the hard stuff. She wants his company as long as there is no relationship talk. 

They are in two very different places right now. Deep down he somewhat sees this hence the overwhelming fear and panic attacks that are very normal reactions when the rug has been pulled from under us. He is desperately trying to get up and reaches out to her, but she can't see this because emotionally she is too far gone.


----------



## sokillme

Bibi1031 said:


> @sokillme, she is emotionally disconnected from him. As soon as he talks about them or gets emotional\vulnerable in any way; she bails and shuts down. She can't handle the hard stuff. She wants his company as long as there is no relationship talk.
> 
> They are in two very different places right now. Deep down he somewhat sees this hence the overwhelming fear and panic attacks that are very normal reactions when the rug has been pulled from under us. He is desperately trying to get up and reaches out to her, but she can't see this because emotionally she is too far gone.


Agreed, though there may be someone else there usually is. Which is why I say at least protect yourself.

But say she is telling the truth, then like I said he needs to move forward with his life and see if she decides to go with him or not.

Look it if were me and my wife wanted this, I would divorce but also do some checking to see if I am getting screwed. Not to save the marriage but out of principle (to say it in a nice way). This will affect how our relationship going forward or if we even have one. I'm not nice. 

But say I didn't want to divorce, then here is what I would do. 

"Absence makes the heart grow fonder" is a real thing. So I would not be contacting her all the time or begging for her to come back. I would be going out and having the time of my life (not dating), but I might take a trip, go someplace fun that I usually would go with my wife. And you can bet there would be lots of pictures of me smiling on social media if I did that. 

Now if I knew I ****ed up and was a bad husband I would also be doing the work and probably writing letters about what I have learned and why it would be different because of that. Which means I would try to be learning. I would be paying attention to what my spouse said was the problem, which means listening and trying to be empathetic. If I didn't get it I would be asking questions of her and maybe friends to help me get it. I would be going to counseling, I might ask her what books she was reading (if she was) and read them as well to get an understanding of how she was feeling. 

Sometimes though I think the kind of spouse that doesn't divorce but moves out is the kind of spouse that contributes greatly to the problems in the marriage. They have and entitled attitude like they can do no wrong. From reading here and other places lots of times but not always they are passive aggressive and they make imaginary deals about things that their spouse has no idea they are agreeing to. They also take for granted lots of things their spouse provides for them in their marriage because they are so self focused they can't see it. The also might expect their spouse to provide for them in a way that is unfair and unrealistic because they have some real problems with providing for themselves. Usually this is in an emotional way. So when that is going on it's hard to fix because the spouse who is unhappy might be unhappy because they have unrealistic expectations. I am speaking in general here. 

There would also be some ground rules to protect both of us. This has to be about fixing the marriage not test driving a single lifestyle. 

1. *No seeing other people or testing out the waters, like texting other people, flirting, group dates, etc.. unless it's talked about.*(which would be immediate grounds for divorce in my book.) But say he doesn't want to divorce, if she wants to date he should too. The big problem in all of this is it's always one person who holds all the power. Still if your are determined to want to stay together and your spouse is dating you better damn well too but you are probably going to end up feeling a lot of pain. And the marriage is probably ruined even if they decide later that the grass wasn't greener. Again divorce is better at this point but it's your life. 

2. *Date nights 2 nights a week. * You can't fix the relationship if you don't see each other. (This is not for talking about the problems in the marriage. See 3)

3. *One day a week for a set period of time to talk about the problems at least at first.* If you need to do that in counseling, because it gets to heated, so be it. Though the goal would be, to make talking openly about your marriage part of it's dynamic. 

4. *Any changes in status, the spouse will need to be informed immediately.* At this point they are still married and what they do affects their spouse, financially, emotionally...

5. *No large decisions without informing and talking with the spouse and making a joint decision.* You can't spend $10,000 of the savings on plastic surgery. You can't buy a new sports car with joint money. No spending $5000 on clothes. Again they are still married. 

6. *Six months and that's it. * If nothing has changed in six months then divorce proceeding will commence and the house will be sold, finances divvied, so on... I am not going to be your safety net like your father while you go try to figure yourself out. Even if I wasn't the best husband. (I am speaking in third person here). 

If the point of separating it to try to fix the marriage then it has to be to try to fix the marriage. If it's to test out being single then it's not real if the other spouse is there to be a safety net. Frankly I suspect the entitlement to think of your spouse that way probably also contributes to the problems in the marriage to begin with, though I am sure the spouse moving out doesn't think so. In this case, he may not have been a good husband but her thinking she can put him on the back burner shows she ain't the best wife either.

I you want to be alone then you got to be alone with all the risk that involves. And a spouse that has their partner demand a single lifestyle is a fool to help them live that way by supporting them on the sidelines.


----------



## sokillme

talkaboutmarrage strikes again. 

double post.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She was supposed to stay last night and watch a movie with me. After staying here for a bit, she told me it was all too much, wouldn't even touch me, and said she was going home. 

Said I was texting her too much through the week as well. Said I was too nosy about what she was doing all the time since she's been gone. I've just been laying here all day depressed, don't want to move or breathe. I've avoided texting her today. I started taking down a couple of our pictures, then went into panic mode and back to the couch.


----------



## jlg07

Why don't you get a PI on her and calm your mind one way or the other? She is flipping back and forth and it makes no sense to just sit in limbo on this.


----------



## Bibi1031

She is emotionally invested in someone else. That is why she wants her privacy. You guys are still married, there is no such thing as you being nosy. 

She separated because there is someone else. It may not be a physical affair, but it is an emotional one; for females, those are the worst type of affairs. 

That is why she withdrew the sex and friend zoned you. The more you tell us about your interactions with her, the clearer it is from the ones outside looking in that are not emotionally invested in your relationship. 

You are too close to her and you don't want to see the subtle changes in her demeanor of you and the marriage. Heck, you even ignore the red flags. Please seek medical attention! Depression is hitting you hard as well.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> She was supposed to stay last night and watch a movie with me. After staying here for a bit, she told me it was all too much, wouldn't even touch me, and said she was going home.
> 
> Said I was texting her too much through the week as well. Said I was too nosy about what she was doing all the time since she's been gone. I've just been laying here all day depressed, don't want to move or breathe. I've avoided texting her today. I started taking down a couple of our pictures, then went into panic mode and back to the couch.


Why don't you go back to the start of this thread where I told you to leave her alone, be your own man, go your own way, live life like you don't need her to be
your life support and act like an independent man.

But what did you do...the complete opposite .....now listen to her words "all too much, texting too much, nosy"

Like I said in my other post ....... "you just don't get it"

Stop showing her that your life hangs by the thread of her existence. That is so terribly unattractive that NO woman wants a man like that. It is completely pathetic.

Once you wise up it will be too late ....... but the truth is....it is too late already. 

You are playing this so poorly that the outcome is already set in stone.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.

I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.

I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.

How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out? 

Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was supposed to stay last night and watch a movie with me. After staying here for a bit, she told me it was all too much, wouldn't even touch me, and said she was going home.
> 
> Said I was texting her too much through the week as well. Said I was too nosy about what she was doing all the time since she's been gone. I've just been laying here all day depressed, don't want to move or breathe. I've avoided texting her today. I started taking down a couple of our pictures, then went into panic mode and back to the couch.
> 
> 
> 
> Why don't you go back to the start of this thread where I told you to leave her alone, be your own man, go your own way, live life like you don't need her to be
> your life support and act like an independent man.
> 
> But what did you do...the complete opposite .....now listen to her words "all too much, texting too much, nosy"
> 
> Like I said in my other post ....... "you just don't get it"
> 
> Stop showing her that your life hangs by the thread of her existence. That is so terribly unattractive that NO woman wants a man like that. It is completely pathetic.
> 
> Once you wise up it will be too late ....... but the truth is....it is too late already.
> 
> You are playing this so poorly that the outcome is already set in stone.
Click to expand...


Currently don't give a "duck" if she wants me or not.

I can do 10x better than her, and I am going to.


----------



## Nickel Speed

jlg07 said:


> Why don't you get a PI on her and calm your mind one way or the other? She is flipping back and forth and it makes no sense to just sit in limbo on this.


Looks like I get to save that money for a vacation.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.
> 
> How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out?
> 
> Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.


Unfortunately this is usually how it goes. Expose the whole thing and get your pound of flesh, but don't get yourself into trouble. They are not worth it.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Currently don't give a "duck" if she wants me or not.
> 
> I can do 10x better than her, and I am going to.



It's about time you smarten up !!!!!

Now get out of your pitiful state of affairs and start acting with some self value.

Use your past self pity as a lesson in life.

Chin up and move forward.....


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.
> 
> How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out?
> 
> Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately this is usually how it goes. Expose the whole thing and get your pound of flesh, but don't get yourself into trouble. They are not worth it.
Click to expand...



Ex military, squeaky clean record, degrees, etc. Role model citizen gets in fight with a regular customer of the jail.

I'm not worried about the slap on the wrist I'll get as long as I don't dismember him. Her, she gets to live with the guilt and shame when telling her family and friends.


----------



## Mr.Married

Smashing his face in isn't the way to go.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Ex military, squeaky clean record, degrees, etc. Role model citizen gets in fight with a regular customer of the jail.
> 
> I'm not worried about the slap on the wrist I'll get as long as I don't dismember him. Her, she gets to live with the guilt and shame when telling her family and friends.


Your hunch was us telling you to show up unannounced. 

Tell the whole world, send the divorce papers to her work and then never speak to her again, ever. Just act like she is dead. 

At least you don't have kids.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Ex military, squeaky clean record, degrees, etc. Role model citizen gets in fight with a regular customer of the jail.
> 
> I'm not worried about the slap on the wrist I'll get as long as I don't dismember him. Her, she gets to live with the guilt and shame when telling her family and friends.


Remember the part of you not listening ..... this is you doing that yet again.

Your still playing it wrong.

The idea is to walk away like you don't give a "duck".

Your only showing her (them) that she still has power over you. Don't do it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> At least you don't have kids.



Sadly, I wasnt forthright with you guys about this part because I did not wish to divulge that information and skew any relationship advice.

Those "pets" I mentioned earlier. It was really our 2 year old daughter.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ex military, squeaky clean record, degrees, etc. Role model citizen gets in fight with a regular customer of the jail.
> 
> I'm not worried about the slap on the wrist I'll get as long as I don't dismember him. Her, she gets to live with the guilt and shame when telling her family and friends.
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the part of you not listening ..... this is you doing that yet again.
> 
> Your still playing it wrong.
> 
> The idea is to walk away like you don't give a "duck".
> 
> Your only showing her (them) that she still has power over you. Don't do it.
Click to expand...

Be happy I got this far. I need to do this.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Sadly, I wasnt forthright with you guys about this part because I did not wish to divulge that information and skew any relationship advice.
> 
> Those "pets" I mentioned earlier. It was really our 2 year old daughter.


Even more reason to get out.

Do NOT go after the other guy.

Your only creating risk with your daughter.....don't do it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Anger is such a relief. Amazing feeling to not be sad.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Anger is such a relief. Amazing feeling to not be sad.


Yes and now the best solution is to expose her affair to everyone and get those divorce papers.

Going after him is the worst idea possible.

You want to be in the position of "the one who did the right thing" going forward.

Be a better man....do the right thing.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Sadly, I wasnt forthright with you guys about this part because I did not wish to divulge that information and skew any relationship advice.
> 
> Those "pets" I mentioned earlier. It was really our 2 year old daughter.


Damn. I'm sorry. DNA test to be sure. Did she actually leave her daughter? Man you should have told her family right away.

I hate this site.


----------



## Mr.Married

DNA test your daughter.

I know this is horrible to even think about, but you should do it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

sokillme said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, I wasnt forthright with you guys about this part because I did not wish to divulge that information and skew any relationship advice.
> 
> Those "pets" I mentioned earlier. It was really our 2 year old daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> Damn. I'm sorry. DNA test to be sure. Did she actually leave her daughter? Man you should have told her family right away.
> 
> I hate this site.
Click to expand...




Mr.Married said:


> DNA test your daughter.
> 
> I know this is horrible to even think about, but you should do it.



Trust me, DNA test not needed. Spitting image of me. She's my daughter.

Our daughter has been taking turns staying with each of us. The next couple of days are hers. I don't plan to say anything about what I know until I get everything in order and it is my day with little one.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> Trust me, DNA test not needed. Spitting image of me. She's my daughter.
> 
> Our daughter has been taking turns staying with each of us. The next couple of days are hers. I don't plan to say anything about what I know until I get everything in order and it is my day with little one.


Good Deal.....

Keep a clear head. Get you papers in order. 

Don't fly off the handle. Stay calm.

Don't expose your position ..... play dumb ......


----------



## Bibi1031

Mr.Married said:


> Good Deal.....
> 
> Keep a clear head. Get you papers in order.
> 
> Don't fly off the handle. Stay calm.
> 
> Don't expose your position ..... play dumb ......


Exactly! Get tactical, just like the military training taught you. Now, use our invaluable advice and go Scorched Earth on her unfaithful A$$!

Yes anger is good when you are blind sided, lied to, sex and emotionally starved, and most of all blame shifted into making it look like it was all your fault she was distant and done with the marriage. What a cruel and ****ty woman that soon to be X of yours is!


----------



## manfromlamancha

What exactly did you find? Apart from her not being in her place all night ? And how do you know who the POSOM is ?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.
> 
> How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out?
> 
> Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.


She is still going to deny, deny deny. Her next excuses will be she stayed over some friends x house while they are on holiday watching their cat. She took a Xanax to sleep from all the stress YOU are causing and zonked out. She could not hear her texts. 

File for divorce and have her served at the guy's house at 7 AM. Server can work with a PI to catch her in the act and take pictures. Will set you back a few hundred but wil shut her yapping trap when she denys, denys, denys,


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Nickel Speed said:


> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. *Sat in her driveway all night until just now*. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.


I'm starting to get a "DanInOhio" feel about how this story is progressing just a little too quickly.

So you say you have a 2 year old daughter and since the split, you and your wife have both been taking turns with her care - each of you keeps her for a few days then the other parent takes her for a few days, etc. etc.

So who was watching her the night you sat in your wife's driveway all night until morning? Obviously it wasn't your wife's turn to watch her since she was spending the night at her boyfriend's house, so I'll assume she was in *your* care. 

Did you take her with you on your all night stake-out at your wife's apartment?


----------



## Nickel Speed

manfromlamancha said:


> What exactly did you find? Apart from her not being in her place all night ? And how do you know who the POSOM is ?


I had suspected him once before. Wife was/is good friend's with him. Thought my gut and jealousy made me make up the story. I found his truck parked at his mom's house. He had stayed at his wife's until last night.

I have no hard proof, but this is all I need. Wouldnt you agree? I know she's been lying to me the whole time about everything.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. *Sat in her driveway all night until just now*. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm starting to get a "DanInOhio" feel about how this story is progressing just a little too quickly.
> 
> So you say you have a 2 year old daughter and since the split, you and your wife have both been taking turns with her care - each of you keeps her for a few days then the other parent takes her for a few days, etc. etc.
> 
> So who was watching her the night you sat in your wife's driveway all night until morning? Obviously it wasn't your wife's turn to watch her since she was spending the night at her boyfriend's house, so I'll assume she was in *your* care.
> 
> Did you take her with you on your all night stake-out at your wife's apartment?
Click to expand...

I called my brother who stayed at my house for a bit after she was in bed.

It was a few hours, hardly all night.


----------



## Nickel Speed

DaninOhio? I read part of that thread the other day. Was it fake? I didn't finish.

Progressing too quickly? Sorry, but this has been the longest and worst time in my life.


----------



## Mr.Married

Remember...you do not have ANY proof.

Given your last meltdowns I think it's best you carry forward with NO proof.

If you do get proof your just going to have another melt down and completely screw everything up.

You might even be so FOOLISH as to ASK if she is cheating.

PLAY DUMB....PLAY DUMB....PLAY DUMB...PLAY DUMB.......PLAY DUMB.....


----------



## Nickel Speed

She called this morning to ask what I wanted. Said she fell asleep last night. It was very hard not to ask her where. I'd love proof, but don't have money to burn on a PI.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I had suspected him once before. Wife was/is good friend's with him. Thought my gut and jealousy made me make up the story. I found his truck parked at his mom's house. He had stayed at his wife's until last night.
> 
> I have no hard proof, but this is all I need. Wouldnt you agree? I know she's been lying to me the whole time about everything.


The problem is the proof isn't solid enough to stand up to scrutiny. She can come up with 1000 reasons why she wasn't at home. She'll say she fell asleep in a parking lot, at a girlfriends house (who will vouch for her), etc. This is proof for you, but you'll sound like a crazy man if you base everything off of this. It's too flimsy. Her friends and relatives have been hearing her crazy lies this whole time and will believe whatever she says. 

Really, the best thing you can do is focus your emotions into getting a divorce done as quickly as possible. Have the papers ready for her the next time she comes over. Be a man of stone and don't react to any of her outbursts when you hand her the papers.

The fact that she left her kids is really telling about how long this must have been going on. It's one thing for her to disconnect from you, but it takes a lot for a mom to walk away from her child.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She has saw her child every day? How is that walking out on her child?


----------



## farsidejunky

Nickel Speed said:


> Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.
> 
> How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out?
> 
> Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.


That she initially did it is her fault. The world is full of *******s.

That she continued to do it rests squarely in your lap. 

You have some personal work to do. You'd better get deep into it lest this situation repeat itself in your next relationship.

As soon as you begin to withdraw, she may start to throw crumbs your way. Do not accept them. She will likely lie, manipulate, gaslight, or any number of other tactics to get back to the situation that the two of you were in...which worked incredibly well for her, but not so much for you.

"You can either come 100% clean and tell me exactly what was going on, or I have no interest in pursuing any sort of relationship with you."

Don't accept her bull****. 

Know your worth. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


----------



## Mr.Married

So many people on this forum repeatedly stab themselves in the face over and over and over...because they NEED the truth and all the details.

VERY VERY VERY few EVER get the truth. If any they get half lies, changing stories, trickle truth, and big lines of lies and BS.

If you think you are going to get all the truth be forewarned you are only destroying yourself.

It is one of the hardest things people say they have getting over....not knowing.

Best to move forward and not focus all your energy on that one....yes it's tough ..... try to keep moving forward.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> She has saw her child every day? How is that walking out on her child?


Wow...you really have to ask that?
Most all mothers don't have to visit their children.


----------



## Spicy

So, when she lies to you some more, but hands you a pie she made and wants to watch a movie, will all be forgiven again?


----------



## Chaparral

You need a lawyer to make her keep your kid away from him if he’s that bad. 

Who do you think he is?


----------



## Chaparral

His truck was at his moms and your wife wasn’t home like she said. You think she picked him up there and went somewhere else?


----------



## bunnahabhain

Nickel Speed said:


> Well. I spoke to her around 830. Said she was going to bed early.
> 
> I had a hunch, and I decided to drive to her place. Sat in her driveway all night until just now. Noone home. Wouldn't respond to text's or calls. I reckon that confirms my worst nightmare.
> 
> I won't be working tomorrow. Going to see a lawyer about drawing up some divorce papers.
> 
> How could someone who I gave my heart and soul to treat me like this, make it seem like it was all my fault, and straight lie to my face even when I offered her a way out?
> 
> Goodbye depression. Now I'm just seeing red. 90% sure I figured out who the partner in crime is. He is on probation and will be going to jail as soon as he catches some assault charges very soon. I'll wait to tell his wife.



I'm glad you have clarity.

I wouldn't worry about the other guy. He'll have his own problems soon enough.

I know it's frustrating. Use this clarity to find a better woman.


----------



## jlg07

DNA your child anyway -- even if she looks like you.
You DO NOT have anything resembling proof of her cheating -- as others have said, she can EASILY skew what you "saw" a number of ways.
Do NOT confront her until you know more -- you will probably NEVER know all of it, but you need way more than you have now if you think you need to convince POSOM wife, her family, friends, etc.. Otherwise she will turn it around and say "SEE, this jealous controlling crap is why I'm leaving him" and THEY will buy it.

Also, don't do anything stupid with the POSOM -- do you want to lose ANY custody of your child?


----------



## Bibi1031

Focus on getting the most custody you legally can. Don't confront her without proof. You really don't need it and you will waste preciousus time. You can lose a heck of a lot more than this divorce than your marriage. File and request 50/50 custody of your daughter. Most men regardless of why the marriage was dissolved end up with the short end of the stick when it comes to their kids. Sadly the system in the USA years towards the mother having primary custody. The fact that it was her that left the home is a good advantage for you. She very well may allow you to be the custodial parent and for your daughter to stay with you in the place she knows as home.

Once you get the most out of this failed marriage, then go Scorched Earth. By the time the divorce is said and done and you have your precious child most of the time, you won't even have a desire to go scorched Earth on her cheating behind. 

The best revenge is alifewell lived. Give all that love to your child. No one can take that away from you if you play your cards right!

Start divorce proceedings yesterday! This is strictly business now. The business of having your child as much of the time with her as you possibly can get. She is the only thing of value you cannot afford to lose a mere inch of. You are military. You know the horror stories your former military mates have gone through when divorce rips them apart from their kids. You have a golden opportunity here to save what istruly most precious to YOU!

Stop wasting your time plotting revenge. That is just plain dumb dude. Sorry, but it is true. Focus on what istruly important:. Your flesh and blood!


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nickel Speed said:


> I had suspected him once before. Wife was/is good friend's with him. Thought my gut and jealousy made me make up the story. I found his truck parked at his mom's house. He had stayed at his wife's until last night.
> 
> I have no hard proof, but this is all I need. Wouldnt you agree? I know she's been lying to me the whole time about everything.


Why did you suspect him once before? What happened at that time? How does your wife know him?

And yes, it sounds pretty damning. I would have asked here where she slept all night. There is no privacy between a married couple when it comes to this. You should not feel like you are infringing on her privacy at all!!!! No matter what she thinks you should be doing. Her comment about you asking about what she was doing too much is rubbish! She should be more than transparent with you as to her comings and goings while you are still married and especially since the two of you have agreed to not see others AND she is maintaining that this is all in your mind! Ask her where she was all night. First make sure that she was not at her mothers as she will use this as her excuse and then tell her mother to cover for her. You need to get to the bottom of this asap.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> She called this morning to ask what I wanted. Said she fell asleep last night. It was very hard not to ask her where. I'd love proof, but don't have money to burn on a PI.


But you have money for a vacation....

If you think a few hundred dollars of solid proof is a waste of time compared to brooding day and night at home wondering if you are misinterpreting everything happening to you I suggest you think again.

Spending a few hundred on a PI, some more on an attorney to file and have her served will save you a mountain of heartache and depression.


----------



## Chuck71

You want answers from her? Get D papers, sign your part, leave papers on kitchen table.

Next time she is there to see child, she will see the papers.

Then you will get some answers.....may not be what you want but you will see the hand she is playing.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Chaparral said:


> His truck was at his moms and your wife wasn’t home like she said. You think she picked him up there and went somewhere else?


That's exactly what I think, or he took one of his mom's 5 vehicles.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> Focus on getting the most custody you legally can. Don't confront her without proof. You really don't need it and you will waste preciousus time. You can lose a heck of a lot more than this divorce than your marriage. File and request 50/50 custody of your daughter. Most men regardless of why the marriage was dissolved end up with the short end of the stick when it comes to their kids. Sadly the system in the USA years towards the mother having primary custody. The fact that it was her that left the home is a good advantage for you. She very well may allow you to be the custodial parent and for your daughter to stay with you in the place she knows as home.
> 
> Once you get the most out of this failed marriage, then go Scorched Earth. By the time the divorce is said and done and you have your precious child most of the time, you won't even have a desire to go scorched Earth on her cheating behind.
> 
> The best revenge is alifewell lived. Give all that love to your child. No one can take that away from you if you play your cards right!
> 
> Start divorce proceedings yesterday! This is strictly business now. The business of having your child as much of the time with her as you possibly can get. She is the only thing of value you cannot afford to lose a mere inch of. You are military. You know the horror stories your former military mates have gone through when divorce rips them apart from their kids. You have a golden opportunity here to save what istruly most precious to YOU!
> 
> Stop wasting your time plotting revenge. That is just plain dumb dude. Sorry, but it is true. Focus on what istruly important:. Your flesh and blood!



I want her to get equal time with our child no matter what she has done. Our daughter deserves that.


----------



## Nickel Speed

manfromlamancha said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had suspected him once before. Wife was/is good friend's with him. Thought my gut and jealousy made me make up the story. I found his truck parked at his mom's house. He had stayed at his wife's until last night.
> 
> I have no hard proof, but this is all I need. Wouldnt you agree? I know she's been lying to me the whole time about everything.
> 
> 
> 
> Why did you suspect him once before? What happened at that time? How does your wife know him?
> 
> And yes, it sounds pretty damning. I would have asked here where she slept all night. There is no privacy between a married couple when it comes to this. You should not feel like you are infringing on her privacy at all!!!! No matter what she thinks you should be doing. Her comment about you asking about what she was doing too much is rubbish! She should be more than transparent with you as to her comings and goings while you are still married and especially since the two of you have agreed to not see others AND she is maintaining that this is all in your mind! Ask her where she was all night. First make sure that she was not at her mothers as she will use this as her excuse and then tell her mother to cover for her. You need to get to the bottom of this asap.
Click to expand...


It was only a feeling I got when I thought she was talking to him way too much. He used to date my wife's roommate / friend.

He is now the husband of my wife's best friend.

She was not at her mother's or father's or friends. I checked.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> It was only a feeling I got when I thought she was talking to him way too much. He used to date my wife's roommate / friend.
> 
> He is now the husband of my wife's best friend.
> 
> She was not at her mother's or father's or friends. I checked.


Where is his wife during all this? Why are you so sure it was him?

Personally if you want to look the best I think you should just tell her you changed your mind and want a divorce. Then don't tell her anything else and move on, and have very little contact. Don't give her the satisfaction of knowing you still want her, don't feed her unlimited ego. Don't cause a scene or fight for her, give her up like garbage. That will hurt her more and she will forever question why you gave up so quickly. If she asks just stay, "I have given it a lot of thought and I just think I can do better. I tried to be the best husband I could be, but we don't work. Good luck." 

Then get out there and move on to better. You CAN do better then a POS who cheats on her husband with the husband of her best friend.

Then I might send an anonymous tip to her best friend though. 

I am sure your first instinct is to blow everything up but if you really want to cause her true long lasting pain treat her like she means nothing. If you create a lot of drama she probably will secretly lap it up, because it plays into her insatiable need to stroke her ego which is probably what the other guy played into.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nickel Speed said:


> It was only a feeling I got when I thought she was talking to him way too much. He used to date my wife's roommate / friend.
> 
> He is now the husband of my wife's best friend.
> 
> She was not at her mother's or father's or friends. I checked.


I would ask her where she was to get her official line on this and then do what sokillme advises.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> I want her to get equal time with our child no matter what she has done. Our daughter deserves that.


Of course! That is why I stated 50/50 custody. You will not get that unless your lawyer helps you fight for that. You will get what every non custodial parent gets ( mostly the dad's):. One afternoon during the school week and every other weekend as well as every other Christmas, and sometimes every summer.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want her to get equal time with our child no matter what she has done. Our daughter deserves that.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course! That is why I stated 50/50 custody. You will not get that unless your lawyer helps you fight for that. You will get what every non custodial parent gets ( mostly the dad's):. One afternoon during the school week and every other weekend as well as every other Christmas, and sometimes every summer.
Click to expand...


We agreed on 50/50 custody.


----------



## Nickel Speed

So, I had dinner with her..invited her to talk, and then blew it all up in her face. At first she tried denying it. I said NO. I told her I deserved the truth then and there so she had no time to spin a story.

She went ahead confessed to cheating on me and sleeping with another guy. Said I didn't deserve that and she left. 

I messaged her on FB as soon as she gor to her new home about the situation to gets texts about her confessing to the affair while she was still emotional. I took screenshots.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> So, I had dinner with her..invited her to talk, and then blew it all up in her face. At first she tried denying it. I said NO. I told her I deserved the truth then and there so she had no time to spin a story.
> 
> She went ahead confessed to cheating on me and sleeping with another guy. Said I didn't deserve that and she left.
> 
> I messaged her on FB as soon as she gor to her new home about the situation to gets texts about her confessing to the affair while she was still emotional. I took screenshots.


Is it THE guy? If you are unsure call his wife and ask where he was last night. If he was conveniently not around let her know your suspicions. 

You want revenge on your wife after you blow up her world ghost her.

Here is some reading that will help you get an idea.


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> So, I had dinner with her..invited her to talk, and then blew it all up in her face. At first she tried denying it. I said NO. I told her I deserved the truth then and there so she had no time to spin a story.
> 
> She went ahead confessed to cheating on me and sleeping with another guy. Said I didn't deserve that and she left.
> 
> I messaged her on FB as soon as she gor to her new home about the situation to gets texts about her confessing to the affair while she was still emotional. I took screenshots.


Yep...
I truly wish we weren’t usually always right here on TAM. Like you, most people don’t believe us. I’m glad she admitted it. Now you know.


----------



## Nickel Speed

The thought of another guy thrusting his **** into her makes my skin crawl.

I feel sick.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> We agreed on 50/50 custody.


Awesome. Just make sure you are the one that files and she signs the divorce with that 50/50 clause on there.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> The thought of another guy thrusting his **** into her makes my skin crawl.
> 
> I feel sick.


Yeah it sucks. You will get better though. If you really are determined to move on, which I think you should be, then you have to think of it like a game that you lost. You mourn, and you move on. 

Truth is your wife is a different person now, once you brain catches up to that you won't want her. 

You don't have to be nice though.


----------



## just got it 55

Nickel Speed said:


> Do I give her an ultimatum? Decide to stay or leave for good?
> 
> I have friend who do this in same situation. His wife is now gone. He is miserable.


Sure right now but you know what he still has ??

His Dignity and self respect

55


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel Speed said:


> The thought of another guy thrusting his **** into her makes my skin crawl.
> 
> I feel sick.


NOW....you know
NOW....you can move forward with clear conscience 
She was not who you thought she was.....just about every guy says that eventually

Nickel..... Take a deep breath and contact an attorney. Get the 50 / 50 in writing and ZERO child support.

If all her crap isn't out of the house, place it in garage or side of road. Tell her to pick up or it will be gone.

Or take to storage unit, first month is usually $1. Send her the key and address. 

Do not let her back in your house. Carry a VAR with you anytime you are around her, for your 

protection. Right now is when some WW drum up charges of DV to get you thrown into jail

and she has the kid 100% and a helluva good chance of keeping it when court comes up 

and you have DV charge on recent record. Play smart......play to win.


----------



## wilson

A VAR is a voice-activated-recorder. It will automatically record when it hears sound. It's good to carry with you since it will record all your interactions when you are with her. You can get them at most stores like Walmart and Target for less than $50. Fortunately, Colorado is a one-party state, which means you don't have to tell her you have a recorder.

You may think you don't need it, but you're thinking of her as the wife you used to know. Currently she is a cheater and liar. She is in the foggy thoughts of the affair. She will create whatever wild tales she feels will help her the most. There have been cheaters who have even made up assault claims. Having the recorder on you at all times means you'll be able to defend yourself against her claims if you need to.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> She was supposed to stay last night and watch a movie with me. After staying here for a bit, she told me it was all too much, wouldn't even touch me, and said she was going home.
> 
> Said I was texting her too much through the week as well. Said I was too nosy about what she was doing all the time since she's been gone. I've just been laying here all day depressed, don't want to move or breathe. I've avoided texting her today. I started taking down a couple of our pictures, then went into panic mode and back to the couch.


If you chase they always move farther away. Sounds like your are text pestering. All you're doing is making yourself look needy/clingy. Very unattractive while you are making her other man look better. 

Hard no contact. If not you will wallow in this mess a long time.

Cheaters always lie, hide and deny. Hopefully you are out of denial of who she is now.

Inform her other mans wife without any warning immediately.


Maybe you'll list now?


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She was supposed to stay last night and watch a movie with me. After staying here for a bit, she told me it was all too much, wouldn't even touch me, and said she was going home.
> 
> Said I was texting her too much through the week as well. Said I was too nosy about what she was doing all the time since she's been gone. I've just been laying here all day depressed, don't want to move or breathe. I've avoided texting her today. I started taking down a couple of our pictures, then went into panic mode and back to the couch.
> 
> 
> 
> If you chase they always move farther away. Sounds like your are text pestering. All you're doing is making yourself look needy/clingy. Very unnattractive.
> 
> I doubt you'll listen
Click to expand...

Maybe finish reading the thread..


----------



## Marc878

Talking as you've seen won't get you much. The time for that is past.

Your actions are all that will count for much now.


----------



## jlg07

Do you know who the guy is? EXPOSE this to all of your family, her family, your friends and especially the POSOM's spouse/gf. They deserve to know what a POS they have in their relationship. Do NOT tell your wife about doing this either.

Make sure you keep any documentation from her that indicates this -- text/email/voice mail, etc.. Keep your VAR going to get more from her.

Get your plan together -- lawyer, get your finances separated and taken care of, etc..
Don't forget about your own health -- exercise, eat right, sleep (as best you can).


----------



## Nickel Speed

jlg07 said:


> Do you know who the guy is? EXPOSE this to all of your family, her family, your friends and especially the POSOM's spouse/gf. They deserve to know what a POS they have in their relationship. Do NOT tell your wife about doing this either.
> 
> Make sure you keep any documentation from her that indicates this -- text/email/voice mail, etc.. Keep your VAR going to get more from her.
> 
> Get your plan together -- lawyer, get your finances separated and taken care of, etc..
> Don't forget about your own health -- exercise, eat right, sleep (as best you can).


I still don't have proof of who the guy is. All she said is it was someone she met a month ago. I don't believe it though.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nick Speed .... you can do it. Yeah we kicked your butt in a few times to get your head straight....all for a reason

Look at yourself now compared to the mess you were.

Your getting there ...... keep your head on right.

You know she cheated...you have the screen shots.

Forward it to everyone in your contact list.

Go get those papers drawn up.


----------



## skerzoid

Nickel Speed

Here are actions that you should take. These are time proven in cases of infidelity.

1. *Have her served as soon as possible.* This can be stopped at any time before the final declaration. If she becomes remorseful in the future, this can be stopped.

2. *Get yourself checked for STDs.*

3. *Check out the 180 technique and apply it*.

4. *Stop talking to her directly as much as possible.* Better if only through a lawyer. Text or email only.

5. *Detaching from her is the quickest way to heal.*

6. *Consider DNA testing for your child.*

7. *Expose to the other man's wife, your family, & her family.*

8. *Never approach her for reconciliation again.* This is something she would have to do.

9. *Stay strong, courageous, and take decisive action.*


----------



## Nickel Speed

I don't want to forward it to everyone in the contact list and risk her going crazy as well. As things are, I am still getting to see my kid every day. I am still keeping the house, etc. I don't want to piss her off and cause an unwanted fight or more drama.

Also, I still feel like a complete mess.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't want to forward it to everyone in the contact list and risk her going crazy as well. As things are, I am still getting to see my kid every day. I am still keeping the house, etc. I don't want to piss her off and cause an unwanted fight or more drama.
> 
> Also, I still feel like a complete mess.


Just proceed with the divorce. The sooner you move on the sooner you start to heal. You will find out about who this guy is sooner or later. Sadly I would classify this as an exit affair. She was really a POS to do it this way though and string you along, keeping you around like plan B. like she did.

I know you don't feel like it now but you are better off. She is not a very nice person, she thinks of you like a car or something. She treated your marriage with such entitlement which makes me think there were probably other things in your marriage that worked this way as well. I think with some distance you will see that you are better off.

Even though it doesn't feel like it now, your wife is not the only path to happiness for you.

Divorce your wife and treat her with the same contempt she treated you. From now on everything is business. As you described yourself in this post you will be fine and in demand.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nickel Speed said:


> I still don't have proof of who the guy is. All *she said is it was someone she met a month ago*. I don't believe it though.


Is this when she said she wanted to move out to "work on things"?


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I still don't have proof of who the guy is. All she said is it was someone she met a month ago. I don't believe it though.


Pretty much everything she tells you will be a lie or a minimization of what happened. If she says they just talked, it was oral sex. If she says they just kissed, they slept together. If she says it started a month ago, it was 3 months. 

At this point, you have to think if you really want the truth and how you would handle it. Sometimes the more you know, the more gets stuck in your head and goes round and round.


----------



## sokillme

You have the only truth you need. Your wife is a lying POS.


----------



## bunnahabhain

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't want to forward it to everyone in the contact list and risk her going crazy as well. As things are, I am still getting to see my kid every day. I am still keeping the house, etc. I don't want to piss her off and cause an unwanted fight or more drama.
> 
> Also, I still feel like a complete mess.


I'm sure you also don't want to hurt her reputation in your kid's eyes.

When my parents got divorced, my mom **** talked about my dad to me every. single. day.

It did not impact my view of my dad because I saw him half the time and he has done a lot for me, but it did impact my view of my mom and her ability to move on.


----------



## SunCMars

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't want to forward it to everyone in the contact list and risk her going crazy as well. As things are, I am still getting to see my kid every day. I am still keeping the house, etc. I don't want to piss her off and cause an unwanted fight or more drama.
> 
> Also, I still feel like a complete mess.


This is a hard post, this, my post to follow, to read and to swallow.

My condolences.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

This choice was, and now is, one made by election, yours.

The others man’s choice, was white-inked signed by a fulfilled erection, his.
His, now it’s hers. Her election was his erection, over yours.

Yes, it is more than that, it always is, and there is always more to the romance.

He was hard pressed on her case, soft placating her self-suffering needs.
Connected to the erection was his mental plotting, prodding, he comfortably pushing.

He found that unhappy place, that gap in her, and he so filled it. 
Top to bottom.

She was ready, he found her vulnerable, readily available, about six months ago. I guess this.
She went back and forth, unsure, then participated in the lunge, accepting fully, his hard plunge.
She wanted this, this test ride. 

Oh, yes, she knows she is guilty.
Yet her guilt was insufficient. It did not keep her from being the saddle, he the rider.

She rode off into the twilight with her new cowboy, her guilt desperately hanging onto her trembling, her yet married legs.
Those legs quivered. From fear of discovery, from guilt, they quivered, having lustful anticipation.

Her mistake? 
Well, honestly, you need to ask?

She should have said, honestly, that she is done, that she is no longer exclusively yours.
Bravely saying, that she is going to play the field, not ruling out, her becoming some other man’s saddle. 

She is weak, she tried to separate amicably, not tearing off the ‘bland-aid’, letting the wound air-out and heal.

Going slow at separation, at divorce, only prolongs the pain.

It is not so much the deed done that was painfully wrong, more so, it was the manner in which she executed it.

*Doing as she did, she slowly executed you. * 

Lie after hopeful lie, in partaking of your words, in breaking bread together, her sharing the repast, reminiscing, maybe your’ loving past times together.

She did so with lies, straight-faced, long lies, her test drive, oh my, they both stretching for miles. 
*A painfully long trail it is, and your tears, they do so follow.*





[The Helmsman]- I lifted free, the far and away, The Typist I’s words, this is the Dark Moon Lilith, she, we so fear.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't want to forward it to everyone in the contact list and risk her going crazy as well. As things are, I am still getting to see my kid every day. I am still keeping the house, etc. I don't want to piss her off and cause an unwanted fight or more drama.
> 
> Also, I still feel like a complete mess.


You can't be afraid of your wife causing drama. You have more coming. I guarantee it and it does not matter whether you 'play nice' or not. 

Her next step will be to introduce your child to the OM. Think you hurt now, wait until you see that. 

Sorry. I truly am. 

Just file quickly - see a lawyer today and like others have repeated here get that 50/50 and do not under any circumstances leave the house. She has moved out , that is in your favor. If she co -signed the mortgage she still is on the hook, new apartment or not. If you are renting and she signed the lease then she still owes that too. Separate your finances and cancel any co -credit cards. Do not direct deposit your pay to a shared account. Open a new one. 

You must act decisively now to protect yourself legally. You have the FB chats and such, You can expose later on once your legal position is established and you know who the OM really is. You are going to find that out shortly I am sorry to say. 

Again, sorry this is happening to you.


----------



## Nickel Speed

First thing she said to me today was, "Did you remove me from the Amazon Prime Account?" All because she was getting an error trying to buy something.

Yea, because that's what was at the top of my priority list.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> First thing she said to me today was, "Did you remove me from the Amazon Prime Account?" All because she was getting an error trying to buy something.
> 
> Yea, because that's what was at the top of my priority list.


Well you know where her priority is. 

The quicker you file and get yourself out of this the better you'll be.

Lingering in infidelity will just cause you more harm


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> First thing she said to me today was, "Did you remove me from the Amazon Prime Account?" All because she was getting an error trying to buy something.
> 
> Yea, because that's what was at the top of my priority list.


Work fast and say nothing. Continue separating assets before she empties the accounts. Try and hide what you are doing. 

Gather up all the important personal documents and stash off site. Child's birth certificate, marriage license, passports, tax returns etc. 

Move your family heirlooms, guns if you have any, etc far away out if her reach. Get my drift? What stays in house is what she brought to marriage. What you bought together will come up in due time. What you brought into marriage that you treasure hide far away now. 

Most important is getting a petition filed with court before she decides she wants to take child with her to new home and keep you away. Don't put it past her! Protect yourself and your parental rights now! 

In that petition demand that she cannot introduce child to new boyfriend (call him John Doe for now in petition) until divorce is finalized and that includes sleep overs in her new apartment. 

Don't dawdle with attorney! Scoring revenge points with Amazon Prime now may make you feel 'good' but not really that important compared to the reality of whats about to happen.

Assuming you dropped her account access of Amazon Prime of course..


----------



## Marc878

Yep, she and her new boyfriend are way ahead of you. Move As fast as possible


----------



## Nickel Speed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Work fast and say nothing. Continue separating assets before she empties the accounts. Try and hide what you are doing.
> 
> Gather up all the important personal documents and stash off site. Child's birth certificate, marriage license, passports, tax returns etc.
> 
> Move your family heirlooms, guns if you have any, etc far away out if her reach. Get my drift? What stays in house is what she brought to marriage. What you bought together will come up in due time. What you brought into marriage that you treasure hide far away now.
> 
> Most important is getting a petition filed with court before she decides she wants to take child with her to new home and keep you away. Don't put it past her! Protect yourself and your parental rights now!
> 
> In that petition demand that she cannot introduce child to new boyfriend (call him John Doe for now in petition) until divorce is finalized and that includes sleep overs in her new apartment.
> 
> Don't dawdle with attorney! Scoring revenge points with Amazon Prime now may make you feel 'good' but not really that important compared to the reality of whats about to happen.
> 
> Assuming you dropped her account access of Amazon Prime of course..



I did not drop her access. She paid for half of the membership. She assumed I did.


----------



## Marc878

You'd be wise to cut off any meaningless communication. Distance and no contact will bring you more clarity


----------



## jlg07

If she is in this mode, MAKE SURE TO SPLIT YOUR FINANCIAL ASSETS ASAP -- get a new savings in YOUR NAME ONLY, and move half of your joint savings/checking there. Any credit cards you share -- close them out and get one in YOUR name only.

She just told you that she has cheated on you and her biggest concern about you is if you have blocked her from amazon prime? THAT ALONE should tell you that you need to move QUICKLY to protect yourself. Read what @Broken_in_Brooklyn says -- DO THIS and do it NOW or you will regret it.

She wants out, GIVE IT TO HER in spades. Make sure that YOU have a plan (WITH a lawyer) to protect yourself.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Another thing. I assume you live in a isolated area where everyone soon knows everyone's business.

Don't confide in anyone what's going on and what your plans are. You don't need her knowing your plans. Keep that on the down low. You don't know who will tell her. Even your best friend I am afraid to say. Even your brother. Trust no one until you file. You tell your bestie who tells his GF in pillow talk who tells her bestie who tells her hairdresser etc. 

Others may know whats been going on but opted to stay out of the drama. 

Schedule consultations with 3 -5 of the best divorce lawyers in your area. Pick the one you like. Since you talked to the others it becomes hard for her to use them due to conflict of interest.


----------



## StarFires

She confessed to cheating but that doesn't mean she was having an affair during your marriage. I was sick of my first husband, our arguing, his insults, and not listening to me. Every time I forgave one thing, there soon came another. I'd had enough of him and wanted out since there was nothing about our relationship that made me want to stay. I never would have cheated, but I did begin to notice that I could be interested in other guys. After I left, I didn't hesitate to be open to someone who was interested in me. Like you, my husband was hurt and cried and had a hard time dealing with it. He wanted his wife and daughter (who was and still is his spitting image) back, but I was done, and I can now understand he didn't realize the damage he was doing throughout our brief marriage. The marriage was over in my heart and my mind, so I didn't know that was also considered cheating because I should have waited until we officially divorced. Until a divorce is finalized, it's cheating to take up with someone else, but people usually don't see it that way. This just might be the case with your wife too. She has confessed to cheating on you, but please make sure it was happening before the separation just so you know exactly what you're angry about. Yes, it would still be cheating, especially since she wanted to move on but then gave in to your pleading to continue working on the marriage, so it might not be so cut and dry as it seems. After all, she wanted out, but you wouldn't let her go.

Also, the propensity of many of the members of this board is to push and bully people into getting a divorce. In cases of infidelity, I agree with them and also think divorce is the one and only consideration for a cheating spouse. But you might not feel that way, so don't let them talk you into anything you don't want to do. I just finished reading a thread of over 100 pages, where the guy found out about his wife's affair but hoped beyond hope to be able to reconcile and salvage his marriage. Everyone here guided, I mean goaded, him into filing while he wanted to wait and see what happens. He did as they kept telling him, only for him to be caught shocked and left with no other options. He recovered just fine as time went on and a year later he's doing okay now, but, again, that wasn't what he wanted to do. Some people don't believe infidelity automatically means divorce, and everyone is entitled to their belief on the subject. You might have to come by your convictions on a slower basis, so take some of the advice given here to look out for yourself but if you don't want to jump to divorce immediately, you don't have to. Maybe a legal separation would be something to consider. Talk with an attorney about your options and learn everything you need to know. You've let us know more than once that you can be hot-headed, so force yourself to slow down and think and make better decisions, or you'll make some awful mistakes right now, and you will carry that hot-headedness into destroying future relationships.


----------



## jlg07

@StarFires, did you read the beginning of this?
She DID cheat on him because THEY ARE MARRIED:
"She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy." THEY ARE MARRIED. YES, she did cheat on him.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

She admitted she cheated - i.e. she is sleeping with another man 

She has been lying through her teeth to him for who know how long. 

Now before she runs off with the child he has to protect his parental rights. Otherwise she is free as a parent to take the child anywhere and good luck getting the child doing without a very expensive legal battle. 

So like it or not that is done by filing for divorce and petitioning the judge to keep the child from being kidnapped or alienated from either parent. 

Now you can file and still reconcile.. 

But if you wait around playing nice and wait and see you could get a miserable surprise. 

Protect yourself. Protect your relationship with your child because right now your wayward does not have your best interests in mind. She has replaced you as a husband by betraying you in the worst possible way. 

So don't think she will not try replace you as the child's parent.


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> The thought of another guy thrusting his **** into her makes my skin crawl.
> 
> I feel sick.


Indeed.

What did she say about why she was continuing to have lunch with you daily, pretending to be willing to work on it, movie dates etc??


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

StarFires said:


> You speak to me as if I did not say the exact same as you are saying. So try to get off your high horse as if you are so superior to me because you are not. But trying so hard to be you're just making yourself look like there is something wrong with you the way you are so quick to make me think I couldn't possibly be right about anything.....only to remind me of what I said as if I didn't say it. Since you didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it, I have no idea which, I will reiterate that the way you, I, or anyone feels about the circumstances doesn't mean that's the way he has to feel about it. Moreover, the way he wrote the story by piecemealing out information between various different posts, what he actually indicates is that she agreed to work on the marriage at his insistence, which means she simply wanted to go because she wasn't happy, but he talked her into agreeing to work on it. All that means when you get to the bottom line is that she only agreed to keep the peace while getting away like she wanted to do.
> 
> 
> 
> You are wrong, sir. That and many other things can also be taken care of through legal separation. That's the reason I suggested it, and, since you missed it, I suggested it in order to let him know I agree with the rest of you that he should look out for himself but that divorce wasn't his only option the way you guys keep trying to talk him into doing. Now that he knows he has another option that will also protect him, he can speak with an attorney, get all the information he needs to know, and make informed decisions from there.


"Hubby, last night when i thought you were too clingy I went home to sleep. That's what I told you except I was banging another guy all night while you were calling and texting and parked outside my house in the middle of winter all night long. BTW, Did you cut off my Amazon Prime? " 


Filing for divorce, filing for a legal separation - the road to divorce, whatever just file. 

If by some miracle she comes around he can always stop it, I doubt she will.


----------



## StarFires

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Filing for divorce, filing for a legal separation - the road to divorce, whatever just file.
> 
> If by some miracle she comes around he can always stop it, I doubt she will.


Looks like you conveniently forgot you stated......



Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> She admitted she cheated - i.e. she is sleeping with another man
> 
> She has been lying through her teeth to him for who know how long.
> 
> Now before she runs off with the child he has to protect his parental rights. Otherwise she is free as a parent to take the child anywhere and good luck getting the child doing without a very expensive legal battle.
> 
> *So like it or not that is done by filing for divorce* and petitioning the judge to keep the child from being kidnapped or alienated from either parent.
> 
> Now you can file and still reconcile..
> 
> But if you wait around playing nice and wait and see you could get a miserable surprise.
> 
> Protect yourself. Protect your relationship with your child because right now your wayward does not have your best interests in mind. She has replaced you as a husband by betraying you in the worst possible way.
> 
> So don't think she will not try replace you as the child's parent.


.....and that it was the reason I corrected you to let you know legal separation serves the same function. Moreover, divorce and nothing else can prevent her from having subsequent boyfriends or husbands, none of which would replace him as his daughter's father but for the rest of his life, he might as well get used to the fact that there will be another man in his daughter's life as long as her mother has boyfriends or subsequent husband(s).




Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> "Hubby, last night when i thought you were too clingy I went home to sleep. That's what I told you except I was banging another guy all night while you were calling and texting and parked outside my house in the middle of winter all night long. BTW, Did you cut off my Amazon Prime? "


That's not exactly fair because Nickel Speed stated......



Nickel Speed said:


> I mean that we never argued badly. There was no violence of any sort. We always made up shortly after and apologized. I had no idea she didn't mean what she said when we made up. I had no idea she was hurting.
> 
> I can't control my fear and crying. I do love her. I've tried letting her go. I offered her a clean cut divorce. I begged many nights, but I also gave her the option to just end it. I made it very clear I wanted her to be happy. *It was then that she decided she would try to work on things*, but she needed space. She would not give up her new place and return home. She said it gave her a safety net. I agreed, but her being away has made it even harder on me.
> 
> I want to let her go, but I can't. I go in to panic mode. I have an anxiety attack, I can't move or breath. I can't stop shaking. I can't do anything.
> 
> But when she is around, I am at peace. I am better. The world is right.
> 
> At the same time, I want what is best for her. Whether you believe that or not.


......She wanted out of the marriage so she got out. She only agreed to work on it because he was so hurt, so she wanted to keep the peace and calm him down (which he has also mentioned she tries to calm him down). If everyone really must insist that she has lied and deceived him, then I can't argue with that on principle because she did, but she only did it to appease him at his own insistence. She had left him. She wanted out of the marriage but it was hard for her after seeing how hard it was on him. I have stated many, many times on the board that women don't speak their minds, and the main reason we don't is out of fear of hurting the man's feelings. She was not going to slam the door in his face. She wasn't going to come right out and tell him to leave her alone. It wasn't easy for her to endure his pain, especially knowing she caused it, so she opted to give him hope to calm him down and get him off her back. 

Wanting to leave him and then leaving him might not have had anything to do with another man at all. That he has now found out she's seeing someone doesn't mean she was seeing this person all the long, so I suggested he find out when the affair began instead of associating it with cheating before she left. Yes, it's still cheating since they are not divorced but despite the technical aspect, it's a different thing to many people, and it might make a difference to him. It just might soothe his soul just a little bit.


----------



## Spicy

No kidding @StarFires. It just is beyond me why she would go to the point of moving out, but won’t tell him it is over! Then instead continue to give him false hope _*constantly *_as she is refusing sex, but letting some other dude bang her?!

He doesn’t deserve that. Shame on her. I would absolutely tell OMs wife/GF if there is one, and your families...Why? Well for one _you_ need and deserve the support OP, and she doesn’t deserve the privacy of continuing to sneak around and blaming this breakup on you! She should be known for what she is....a liar, cheat, immature chicken, and a total user. You have to get angry OP, and stop protecting her!


----------



## StarFires

Spicy said:


> No kidding @StarFires. It just is beyond me why she would go to the point of moving out, but won’t tell him it is over! Then instead continue to give him false hope _*constantly *_as she is refusing sex, but letting some other dude bang her?!
> 
> He doesn’t deserve that. Shame on her. I would absolutely tell OMs wife/GF if there is one, and your families...Why? Well for one _you_ need and deserve the support OP, and she doesn’t deserve the privacy of continuing to sneak around and blaming this breakup on you! She should be known for what she is....a liar, cheat, immature chicken, and a total user. You have to get angry OP, and stop protecting her!


Spicy, you're jumping the gun and assuming she's been seeing someone all the long. I'm just not prepared to make that assumption. He has no indication of that and, indeed, told us that he would go around to her place many times but there was no one there. I'm sure you are familiar with how it often goes during a breakup. People become stalkers, and HE has behaved desperately and beside himself. Since she is relatively near him, he's probably driven by her place or sat outside many more times than he related to us. He didn't see anyone there and didn't tell us he did not find her home on conspicuous occasions until he finally did. You might be right but I sure hope you're not because I think it could possibly make a difference to him.

The rest I already addressed in my post before yours but don't think you saw it.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

StarFires said:


> Spicy, you're jumping the gun and assuming she's been seeing someone all the long. I'm just not prepared to *make that assumption.* He has no indication of that and, indeed, told us that he would go around to her place many times but there was no one there. *I'm sure you are familiar with how it often goes during a breakup. People become stalkers, and HE has behaved desperately and beside himself. Since she is relatively near him, he's probably driven by her place or sat outside many more times than he related to us. He didn't see anyone there and didn't tell us he did not find her home on conspicuous occasions until he finally did.* You might be right but I sure hope you're not because I think it could possibly make a difference to him.
> 
> The rest I already addressed in my post before yours but don't think you saw it.



You're not willing to "make that assumption" yet the whole rest of your post is an assumption. You're good at that as long as it's lambasting a guy that's been betrayed.


----------



## Bibi1031

Please get a lawyer and file with the 50/50 custody clause on there. Also place a clause that states no third party from either parent can be introduced to the child until legally divorced. I had forgotten about the third party clause my lawyer included when my X was cheating. 

Filing for divorce gives you the upper hand. You are going to need it. You won't get 50/50 custody if the lawyer doesn't put it in writing. You will not be able to stop her from playing happy family with AP and your daughter unless your lawyer states that in the petition for divorce as well. You don't need a legal separation. She already left the marital home. Make that official or legal by filing divorce papers. You file, you can also stop it and stop her from introducing AP! 

If she files you are toast because you will have to go to court to get 50/50 custody. You won't be able to stop her from parading OM in front of daughter, and you most certainly won't be able to stop the divorce process if by some sheer stroke of luck, she decides she wants you and no one else.

File yesterday, and fear pissing her off tomorrow. In other words, care more to protect your parental rights than pissing your cruel wife off!


----------



## StarFires

Rubix Cubed said:


> You're not willing to "make that assumption" yet the whole rest of your post is an assumption. You're good at that as long as it's lambasting a guy that's been betrayed.



Oh just take your head out of your imagination. Nothing I stated lambasts anyone but was quite in support of him. Stop using words you don't know the meaning of.


----------



## StarFires

Bibi1031 said:


> Please get a lawyer and file with the 50/50 custody clause on there. Also place a clause that states no third party from either parent can be introduced to the child until legally divorced. I had forgotten about the third party clause my lawyer included when my X was cheating.
> 
> Filing for divorce gives you the upper hand. You are going to need it. You won't get 50/50 custody if the lawyer doesn't put it in writing. You will not be able to stop her from playing happy family with AP and your daughter unless your lawyer states that in the petition for divorce as well. You don't need a legal separation. She already left the marital home. Make that official or legal by filing divorce papers. You file, you can also stop it and stop her from introducing AP!
> 
> If she files you are toast because you will have to go to court to get 50/50 custody. You won't be able to stop her from parading OM in front of daughter, and you most certainly won't be able to stop the divorce process if by some sheer stroke of luck, she decides she wants you and no one else.
> 
> File yesterday, and fear pissing her off tomorrow. In other words, care more to protect your parental rights than pissing your cruel wife off!


Legal separation doesn't have anything to do with her having already left already. In fact, the purpose for it is to set ground rules while living separately. He can still file for one and, again, I made the suggestion because he said several times that he doesn't want a divorce but you and everyone keep/kept trying to goad him into it. So the legal separation can protect his rights and include such clauses if wants to put it in. After finding out that she's seeing someone might have made him want a divorce now but we don't know for sure. And besides, what's the point in the clause since it can only matter for a few months until the divorce is final. A judge has no right to tell a woman she can never have any relationships again. Like I said, he might as well get used to the fact that there will be other men in his daughter's life.


----------



## Spicy

StarFires said:


> Spicy, you're jumping the gun and assuming she's been seeing someone all the long. I'm just not prepared to make that assumption. He has no indication of that and, indeed, told us that he would go around to her place many times but there was no one there. I'm sure you are familiar with how it often goes during a breakup. People become stalkers, and HE has behaved desperately and beside himself. Since she is relatively near him, he's probably driven by her place or sat outside many more times than he related to us. He didn't see anyone there and didn't tell us he did not find her home on conspicuous occasions until he finally did. You might be right but I sure hope you're not because I think it could possibly make a difference to him.
> 
> The rest I already addressed in my post before yours but don't think you saw it.


You are absolutely right, it is totally just a hunch. I hope you are correct tho, for his sake. 

Since she stopped having sex with him 6 months ago, moved out, the phone protecting etc, my hunch would lean on the affair being much longer than 1 month. The dude was probably smart enough to park a block or two away, or hookup at his place or even in a car for some cheap thrill adventures. Maybe we will never know if it is with someone from work or if it’s the best friends boyfriend. They sound like a real moral bunch that his wife chooses to hang out with...so who knows. Either way, it’s bad.


----------



## Bibi1031

StarFires said:


> Legal separation doesn't have anything to do with her having already left already. In fact, the purpose for it is to set ground rules while living separately. He can still file for one and, again, I made the suggestion because he said several times that he doesn't want a divorce but you and everyone keep/kept trying to goad him into it. So the legal separation can protect his rights and include such clauses if wants to put it in. After finding out that she's seeing someone might have made him want a divorce now but we don't know for sure. And besides, what's the point in the clause since it can only matter for a few months until the divorce is final. A judge has no right to tell a woman she can never have any relationships again. Like I said, he might as well get used to the fact that there will be other men in his daughter's life.


Ok dear, no need to argue with you. It seems that that is your aim. Post to Nickel Speed and no arguing needed. That is what we are doing when our posts are directed at OP. 

On a lighter note, maybe your username should be Start Fires instead of StarFire eh?

...just saying :grin2:


----------



## StarFires

Spicy said:


> You are absolutely right, it is totally just a hunch. I hope you are correct tho, for his sake.
> 
> Since she stopped having sex with him 6 months ago, moved out, the phone protecting etc, my hunch would lean on the affair being much longer than 1 month. The dude was probably smart enough to park a block or two away, or hookup at his place or even in a car for some cheap thrill adventures. Maybe we will never know if it is with someone from work or if it’s the best friends boyfriend. They sound like a real moral bunch that his wife chooses to hang out with...so who knows. Either way, it’s bad.


Yep, it's bad. Awful actually. Can't say I blame you for having the hunch. And if it's what he thinks is correct and she's sleeping with her friend's husband, that makes her particularly low life, as any man or woman who will sleep with the spouse of their so-called friend is just scum. I'm just hoping she didn't before she broke up with him. Maybe we will see.



Bibi1031 said:


> Ok dear, no need to argue with you. It seems that that is your aim. Post to Nickel Speed and no arguing needed. That is what we are doing when our posts are directed at OP.
> 
> On a lighter note, maybe your username should be Start Fires instead of StarFire eh?
> 
> ...just saying :grin2:


LOL How typical. You post a bunch of nonsensical untrue conjecture you didn't know what you were talking about just for the sake of disputing what I suggested and then tell me I'm the one arguing. You are too see through. Transparency makes you easy to figure out when you think you're being sly. Thank you for showing everyone how you really are. For the record, my username is not StarFire. You're wrong about that too.


----------



## Bibi1031

LOL How typical. You post a bunch of nonsensical untrue conjecture you didn't know what you were talking about just for the sake of disputing what I suggested and then tell me I'm the one arguing. You are too see through. Transparency makes you easy to figure out when you think you're being sly. Thank you for showing everyone how you really are. For the record, my username is not StarFire. You're wrong about that too.[/quote]

:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:


----------



## Bibi1031

StarFires said:


> Yep...
> 
> 
> 
> LOL How typical. You post a bunch of nonsensical untrue conjecture you didn't know what you were talking about just for the sake of disputing what I suggested and then tell me I'm the one arguing. You are too see through. Transparency makes you easy to figure out when you think you're being sly. Thank you for showing everyone how you really are. For the record, my username is not StarFire. You're wrong about that too.


:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:


----------



## StarFires

Bibi1031 said:


> LOL How typical. You post a bunch of nonsensical untrue conjecture you didn't know what you were talking about just for the sake of disputing what I suggested and then tell me I'm the one arguing. You are too see through. Transparency makes you easy to figure out when you think you're being sly. Thank you for showing everyone how you really are. For the record, my username is not StarFire. You're wrong about that too.
> 
> :bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:


:bsflag::bsflag::bsflag::bsflag:


----------



## jlg07

StarFires said:


> You speak to me as if I did not say the exact same as you are saying. So try to get off your high horse as if you are so superior to me because you are not. But trying so hard to be you're just making yourself look like there is something wrong with you the way you are so quick to make me think I couldn't possibly be right about anything.....only to remind me of what I said as if I didn't say it.


Starfires, THIS is exactly what you stated: "She confessed to cheating but that doesn't mean she was having an affair during your marriage. " THIS is what I was referring to where you were wrong -- there is NO way to misinterpret this -- you stated that "it doesn't mean she was having an affair during your marriage" SHE ABSOLUTELY IS having an affair -- they are married, and she is cheating. Her "moving out" does not mean they are not married, so, she is in fact having an affair while married.
YOU are wrong on that. That was the line I was referring to in your original post where you complained about it being about his ego. So, NO you did not say the exact same thing I said.


----------



## Mr.Married

As usual all the bickering and arguing centers around the same person.


----------



## StarFires

Mr.Married said:


> As usual all the bickering and arguing centers around the same person.


Tell me why that is, Mr.Married. I haven't bickered or argued with anyone. I responded to their false and contrived accusations such as the one that you liked because people have a tendency to enjoy and promote mob mentality and relational aggression. So all that was okay while you add your own erroneous accusation of me bickering and arguing. Your obvious intent was to niggle at me with this statement, so why am I not to respond, and why is my response labeled as bickering and arguing? You're trying to get me banned knowing that you won't be banned.


----------



## manwithnoname

StarFires said:


> Tell me why that is, Mr.Married. I haven't bickered or argued with anyone. I responded to their false and contrived accusations such as the one that you liked because people have a tendency to enjoy and promote mob mentality and relational aggression. So all that was okay while you add your own erroneous accusation of me bickering and arguing. Your obvious intent was to niggle at me with this statement, so why am I not to respond, and why is my response labeled as bickering and arguing? You're trying to get me banned knowing that you won't be banned.


It must be noted that I knew exactly who he was talking about, without reading every post.

Also I will add that you admit to cheating before your divorce was final, and then defend OP's wife by telling the OP that the affair she admitted to may have started after she moved out, which in some crazy way justifies her stringing him along and giving him false hope?


----------



## manfromlamancha

Why does this have to be so complicated. She had troubles in the marriage. Everyone does. She wanted to **** another man so she started ****ing another man. She moved out so that she could **** him in peace. NickelSpeed has been blaming himself for her actions which is not good or right.

And yes, while you are still married it is cheating to sleep with somebody else. As simple as that.
Especially if she lies and says she is doing it so that she can work on the marriage.
And doubly especially if she has already started ****ing another man.

NickelSpeed, you need to stop blaming yourself for anything at this point and go into full defence mode and then possibly into offence mode. Defence is protecting your assets, custody and health. Offence is blowing this affair out of the water and letting everyone know.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

StarFires said:


> Tell me why that is, Mr.Married. I haven't bickered or argued with anyone. I responded to their false and contrived accusations such as the one that you liked because people have a tendency to enjoy and promote mob mentality and relational aggression. So all that was okay while you add your own erroneous accusation of me bickering and arguing. Your obvious intent was to niggle at me with this statement, so why am I not to respond, and why is my response labeled as bickering and arguing? You're trying to get me banned knowing that you won't be banned.


No one is trying too get you banned. You are doing that on your own.


----------



## StarFires

manwithnoname said:


> It must be noted that I knew exactly who he was talking about, without reading every post.
> 
> Also I will add that you admit to cheating before your divorce was final, and then defend OP's wife by telling the OP that the affair she admitted to may have started after she moved out, which in some crazy way justifies her stringing him along and giving him false hope?


I don't fall in lock step with the majority, but you're indicating I'm supposed to and only express have my own opinions if they agree with yours and others. But no, I wasn't justifying anything. I said simply I didn't realize at the time that I was cheating because I had left him and the marriage was over for me, so that might be the way she feels as well, which is something that might make a difference to him. If it does, how is it so crazy that I said it. Lots of people leave their spouse and go messing around. It just might matter to him and quell his anger to help him feel better. It was something that I had to learn and a lot of other people do too. I also said that she wanted out of the marriage, but he pressured her into saying she would work on it. That really isn't the same as stringing him along with false hope. That was more like appeasing him to get him under control and stop his pressuring. 

He started his story indicating that she promised to continue working on the marriage. But he later revealed why she said it, and that is his comment that I quoted above. So why are you, like others here, telling me I said things that I didn't say? As in at least one instance, very emphatically (yelling) telling me I didn't say things that I did say? I said it 3 times, in fact before he twice accused me of not saying it. THAT, I submit, is the reason you "knew exactly who he was talking about, without reading every post." So I ask you a similar question as the one I posed to Mr.Married, tell me, if you misunderstand what I wrote or you do understand it but disagree with it in a disagreeable manner, why am I the one accused of bickering and arguing? Spicy disagreed with me and told me so, but she didn't do it in any kind of egregious fashion. I responded to her and everyone else in the same manner that they addressed me or really just pointed out their obvious intentions, so why is it so apparent that you knew who Mr.Married was talking about? Are people to say what they wish to me but I'm not allowed to respond to their falsehoods?


----------



## NobodySpecial

I don't really understand this. She left. She did not want to be with him. She acquiesced to something after he begged. Honestly, I don't actually understand that much why people go mental over cheating in a situation like this. She does not want to be with him. Move on.


----------



## Mr.Married

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't really understand this. She left. She did not want to be with him. She acquiesced to something after he begged. Honestly, I don't actually understand that much why people go mental over cheating in a situation like this. She does not want to be with him. Move on.


Nice and to the point. I don't agree its "right" per se .... but understand your point and can full well see how it happens.


----------



## Dragan Jovanovic

Sorry bro,it is hard situation.


----------



## Nickel Speed

We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.

I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


It's understandable. Our emotions often betray us. Your brain is trying to deal with the pain in the easiest way it can think of. It would be so easy if she just came back and everything went back to the way it was. This is one reason it's important for you to go out and do stuff that you enjoy like a road trip, hanging with friends, whatever. It gives your brain something else to feel good about so it doesn't act so irrationally about this issue.

So how did she react when you said you wanted her back?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.
> 
> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


What exactly are you apologizing for? 

Begging her is just making you look weak in her eyes. She does not care. Sorry, but the sooner you grasp that the better.

Lawyer up. She is gone, She will only come back if she wants to. Nothing you say will change that.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


Take her word for it. 

She is done. 

You married an a-hole who made a baby with you and within 2 years decided she wanted someone else. She just could not be bothered to tell you before hand what she was honestly up to. She lied, manipulated, obfuscated, cheated, etc. There is no doubt in my mind she was seeing this guy before she moved out and decided to sit on the fence and mislead you. Of course she will never admit that, cheaters never, ever do. Not a flattering portrait of her maturity, loyalty or character. 

Now you have to co-parent with her. Protect yourself - stop communicating with her outside the steps you clearly need to take. If you wait for her to take the steps thinking she might change her mind you could set yourself up for even more heartache. 

Sorry.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


Don't ever forget that only really lousy, low life 'friends' stab you in the back. That should make them ex-friends. 

Just co-parent with her within the boundaries of raising the child. You don't have to be 'friends' to do that. Just adult and civil.


----------



## Nickel Speed

If I drove her away, I don't blame her.


----------



## MattMatt

StarFires said:


> Tell me why that is, Mr.Married. I haven't bickered or argued with anyone. I responded to their false and contrived accusations such as the one that you liked because people have a tendency to enjoy and promote mob mentality and relational aggression. So all that was okay while you add your own erroneous accusation of me bickering and arguing. Your obvious intent was to niggle at me with this statement, so why am I not to respond, and why is my response labeled as bickering and arguing? You're trying to get me banned knowing that you won't be banned.


*Moderation team warning:-*

Yes. You *have* bickered and argued with a number of people in this thread.

And you have threadjacked, too. Which is not helping the OP who has to try to read through post after post which you caused with your shenanigans. 

Nobody is trying to get you banned. With, perhaps, the exception of yourself?

*Please stop the bickering, arguing and threadjacking now.*


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


Please, for your own sake, hear what she is telling you and believe it.


----------



## Mr.Married

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


Come on 5 speed ! You heard it straight from the horses mouth. 

Besides that fact that this marriage is over ..... what is it that you really want? You can't say you want her back because that isn't going to happen EVER.

Say the next thing that comes to mind......What do you want ?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> If I drove her away, I don't blame her.


If you did not drive her away, who are you going to blame then?

If you did drive her away she could have filed for divorce as soon as she decided she was done and moved out. She choose not to. 

Instead she mislead you. 

No one on the entire planet can tell you what is in your wayward's mind except her. So far she has been quite dishonest with you. I would take anything she says in terms of why, when, blah, etc with a grain of salt. She has shown you she can lie to your face quite easily. 

So stop blaming yourself. While you pined over her believing her lies but realizing they did not add up she was in sexual ecstasy ignoring the calls and texts of her desperate husband. She is a POS. 

She has had plenty of time to tell you I want a divorce and to file. She choose not to. She had complete information but withheld that from you. She will tell you that was to not hurt your feelings. Lies. Just her being selfish. If you were aware of what she was up to it would have upset her apple cart of having a compliant baby sitter while she had her trysts and remaining 'friends'. Don't forget that.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Mr.Married said:


> Come on 5 speed ! You heard it straight from the horses mouth.
> 
> Besides that fact that this marriage is over ..... what is it that you really want? You can't say you want her back because that isn't going to happen EVER.
> 
> Say the next thing that comes to mind......What do you want ?


To go home and crawl into my bed.


----------



## StarFires

Nickel Speed said:


> We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.
> 
> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


There are lots of people who do the same as you did given this same situation. Breakups are hard as can be. When I was going through a bad breakup, I immersed myself in a good book to take my mind off things and maintain my sanity. I knew I needed something, and a couple days in that book did the trick. You're depressed right now, but it's situational and will pass. I know that's not helpful at the moment but meant to assure you that you'll be okay. Something that might calm your nerves and soothe the emotions is St. John's Wart. Let that take the edge off for maybe a week or two until you're able to handle things on your own. It's a natural herbal product with no drugs of any kind. But do check for any interactions if you're taking any medications right now.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> To go home and crawl into my bed.


When you wake up from your nap then what? 

You don't want to live in Groundhog day. This is not going away. 

She has shown you she is incapable of doing the right thing and putting her child's interests and that of her child's father ahead of her own selfish interests.

So you have to. The sooner you get out of bed and lawyer up the better for you and your daughter. It is a baby step, an ugly painful one. Not the one you wish to take but you have no choice, you have to.


----------



## StarFires

NobodySpecial said:


> I don't really understand this. She left. She did not want to be with him. She acquiesced to something after he begged. Honestly, I don't actually understand that much why people go mental over cheating in a situation like this. She does not want to be with him. Move on.


So glad you were able to say it.
Going mental is normal though to varying degrees. I feel bad for him.


----------



## Bibi1031

???


----------



## NobodySpecial

StarFires said:


> So glad you were able to say it.
> Going mental is normal though to varying degrees. I feel bad for him.


Oh I think HIS going mental makes 500% sense. It is this board weird response to cheating in this instance. This board should really be called AllAboutCheating, responding to cheating, cheat guarding....


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> To go home and crawl into my bed.


I know the feeling, but you are a grown up in charge of a two year old. If you don't have anything to propel you to action, your child's well being should. 

Get lawyered up and then go to your doctor and let him take care of you the way your medical doctor should. Cut contact with your soon to be X. Everything about her is painful for you right now. Let your lawyer do all the talking to her from now on. 

She is done, please protect yourself and your child. That is the card you have been handed. Let her make her life, and you start creating yours without her. Do this kicking and screaming along the way, but do it!

Begging and apologizing or feeling pitiful doesn't help anything. Do all that on your own, not to your WW. She has left the building do to speak. She is unreachable at this point. Think of your old wife as dead if that helps you and mourn your loss, but protect yourself against the new her your don't recognize anymore.


----------



## Nickel Speed

This may be wrong. I feel slightly better for a moment. I just spoke to wife. The mother of my wife sent my wife an email. This email stated that she was sorry she did not make things work with wife's father. She said she was sorry she screwed her up as a child. It may be wrong, but I laughed a little.

My wife's mother cheated on wife's dad. She is now with a very religious man, who I think was a bit of a jerk at times.


----------



## Robbie1234

Nickel Speed said:


> This may be wrong. I feel slightly better for a moment. I just spoke to wife. The mother of my wife sent my wife an email. This email stated that she was sorry she did not make things work with wife's father. She said she was sorry she screwed her up as a child. It may be wrong, but I laughed a little.
> 
> My wife's mother cheated on wife's dad. She is now with a very religious man, who I think was a bit of a jerk at times.


I haven't posted on your thread but I have read it all. At the start a few posters told you what was happening but you didn't believe it. Now that you know that your wife is a lying, cheating,manipulative excuse for a human being you are still begging her to come back. 
Are you having a laugh at the people who are trying to help you because this is what it seems like to me.


----------



## jlg07

Nickel Speed said:


> This may be wrong. I feel slightly better for a moment. I just spoke to wife. The mother of my wife sent my wife an email. This email stated that she was sorry she did not make things work with wife's father. She said she was sorry she screwed her up as a child. It may be wrong, but I laughed a little.
> 
> My wife's mother cheated on wife's dad. She is now with a very religious man, who I think was a bit of a jerk at times.


Well, the fruit didn't fall far from the tree. 
Seriously, nothing you can do about this -- you CANNOT work on a marriage by yourself and from what she has told you, she is done.

Get a lawyer, get your finances together, get your custody strategy together, and move ahead. Work on yourself (sleep/exercise, counseling), try to be the best co-parent you can be and focus on you and your child.

VERY sorry you are going through this.


----------



## Bibi1031

The saying : do what I say, and not what I do/did comes to mind. Sorry, but that is messed up. You lead by example, especially when it comes to our children. 

Please fight yourself against having any contact with your wife if it is going to send you on a tailspin. May your precious daughter not follow into grandma's and mom's mistakes. You make sure that cycle ends with your broken relationship and not your daughter's. 

When your daughter becomes a woman and is done with a relationship, she will end one before starting another. That is the path of less pain and drama. That is what your wife's mother failed to take the time to teach her daughter. Now she feels bad for her daughter's painful choices. Too little to late for you at this point. But a huge lesson you have time to instill in your daughter when the time comes that she is of age to learn the correct way to end relationships.


----------



## Chuck71

Mr.Married said:


> As usual all the bickering and arguing centers around the same person.


Same thing happened when I sent a friend here back in the summer @MThomas 

That person spewed the same venom and rolled out several false allegations.

He addressed those and she never posted on his thread again.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Robbie1234 said:


> I haven't posted on your thread but I have read it all. At the start a few posters told you what was happening but you didn't believe it. Now that you know that your wife is a lying, cheating,manipulative excuse for a human being you are still begging her to come back.
> Are you having a laugh at the people who are trying to help you because this is what it seems like to me.


No. I was happy that even her own mother is on my side. It was good to hear. I suspect much of her family will be.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> This may be wrong. I feel slightly better for a moment. I just spoke to wife. The mother of my wife sent my wife an email. This email stated that she was sorry she did not make things work with wife's father. She said she was sorry she screwed her up as a child. It may be wrong, but I laughed a little.
> 
> My wife's mother cheated on wife's dad. She is now with a very religious man, who I think was a bit of a jerk at times.


Why shouldn't you get a little lift here and there? Nothing wrong with that. You need lifts now that you have been handed this turd feast by your wife. 

Strongly consider doing things that give you a lift to ease your emotions and distract you. Positive things like hitting the gym - working out and exercising, team sports, hobbies, update your wardrobe, etc. Perhaps leave town for a few to a nice warm place and get some rays. Whatever works for you. 

At least granny is mature enough to admit her mistakes. That is a positive, a value system she will promote in your child. Your wayward's mom will always be your child's granny and her husband the step-gramps. Maintain a civil polite discourse with them concerning your child as they will continue to have a great influence on your child. 

Whether or not not your wayward learned by mom's example is really irrelevant. They choose to cheat. They are not the first to cheat nor that last. Sadly a very old story that happens over and over. Unfortunately now it is happening to you. Life will go on though and you will survive this.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> No. I was happy that even her own mother is on my side. It was good to hear. I suspect much of her family will be.


More proof of an ongoing affair, Your wayward had the usual cheaters concerns about looking bad in everyone's eyes so she tried to keep her lover stashed while she figured out how to finish dumping you. Her problem was she had no real reason to leave without looking like a a-hole so she figured by moving out you two would just grow apart and go your separate ways. Meanwhile she could secretly get her groove on with OM. Later on when the coast was clear and she would not lose face she could introduce the new man and claim they met after separation and look respectable in everyone's eyes. I cannot count how many times I have witnessed this and it always has the same mantra - "I did not want to hurt their feelings" Complete BS. 

But you squeezed her and her lies collapsed.


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel Speed said:


> If I drove her away, I don't blame her.


She is showing you exactly who she is.... BELIEVE her.

File for D... give defiant people exactly what they want. Because in the end... it never turns out

as they had planned. In the meantime..... YOU work on YOU. Own your POS tendencies, we ALL have them.

Be a better person for you, your job, your child, your family / friends. Sorry but if she wanted another

man in her bed, she should have D you first.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."


So your first post read like this. 



> She said she wants to separate and work on our marriage because she was not happy. Originally, she did not want to save our marriage, but I begged her to reconsider.


So did she really say she was going to reconsider or not? If she did then she is having an affair at least in the "I want my cake and eat it too" kind of way (assuming this guy has come into the picture after you separated, which is a big if. I would bet money that is not the case, who is this guy is the question, from that you will probably know.) Anyway if she said she was going to work on the marriage then she is cheating and you have a right to be angry. Either way you have to accept she is done. Really this is why most of us say just divorce, separating to work on the marriage hardly ever works and is just usually a platform for one spouse to test out the waters and make the separation easier. 

At this point I think you should start to detach and make it easier on yourself. Your marriage might be over but your life isn't.

I am curious why you keep taking blame for all this? What do you think you did to contribute to this? Did you cheat on her? Ignore her? Treat her poorly like yell at her all the time? It's hard to tell with so little information.


----------



## sokillme

Bibi1031 said:


> The saying : do what I say, and not what I do/did comes to mind. Sorry, but that is messed up. You lead by example, especially when it comes to our children.
> 
> Please fight yourself against having any contact with your wife if it is going to send you on a tailspin. May your precious daughter not follow into grandma's and mom's mistakes. You make sure that cycle ends with your broken relationship and not your daughter's.
> 
> When your daughter becomes a woman and is done with a relationship, she will end one before starting another. That is the path of less pain and drama. That is what your wife's mother failed to take the time to teach her daughter. Now she feels bad for her daughter's painful choices. Too little to late for you at this point. But a huge lesson you have time to instill in your daughter when the time comes that she is of age to learn the correct way to end relationships.


This is why I am always quick to point this out to cheaters and those who stay with them. One day you may have to look your kid in the eye and explain why you did what you did. Often from the the perspective of them dealing with the fallout from the exact same experience.

Which is another reason OP, why being strong and showing your wife consequences is a good lesson for your daughter. If you are weak and you daughter sees that what lesson does she learn. Unless there is a reason I would not take ownership of her affair in front of your daughter. I would not say stuff like if I was a better husband this wouldn't have happened. Assuming you were not abusive then your wife having an affair is not your fault. Lot's of people have bed marriages, infidelity is never a good solution. Make sure your daughter learns the right lesson.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> No. I was happy that even her own mother is on my side. It was good to hear. I suspect much of her family will be.


Don't bank on it long term. Eventually they too will come to the conclusion that because she is family they have to live with her and accept her choices. Then they will distance themselves from you. 

Unfortunately you have to start moving forward because your wife is, you need to do it just to protect yourself. The time for being passive is over.


----------



## Tron

Nickel Speed said:


> She said she did not think that she could. "If I loved you like a wife should, I never would have let things get as bad as they did or done the things I did. I want to be your friend, but I can't be anything more anymore. I know that's not what would make me happy."












It is all about her "happiness". HAH!!! Sickening...truly!

When she tells you this BELIEVE HER!

And you had best believe that this started 6 months ago when she cut off sex with you. She wouldn't have sex with you because it would be considered cheating on her current BF and probably because he asked her to. Now think about that for a second! :frown2: She didn't want to cheat on him...with you, her husband.

She is following in her mother's footsteps. And you can do better. Much better.

Just divorce her. File! Do it now. Get the best deal you can and move on. 

And if she has been bad-mouthing you around town then you can certainly clear things up and out her to everyone for what she has done, but based upon her FOO and who she likes to hang around with, she will probably get a pat on the back and an "attagirl". Might feel good though and know that any embarrassment she feels will just be temporary.


----------



## manfromlamancha

NickelSpeed, this isn't about who is on whose side. This is about you waking up and smelling the roses.

You need to be clear about this:


You did not make her cheat and lie - that is what she did on her own and be thankful that you know what she is.

She has been cheating and lying to you for longer than she has indicated. That should tell you something.

She moved out as soon as she felt she could - she had already test driven her next monkey branch. (For those questioning what the big deal is - this is the big deal. Yes we understand that she wanted to go and NickelSpeed begged her to stay. But she has been cheating and lying for longer than she said and that has done some damage to NickelSpeed). That should tell you what kind of person she is.

Wake up and see the demon disguised as your wife. The minute you do, you will drop her like a hot potato.

Stop worrying about who is on your side or how you can win some small insignificant battles. Put an end to the war and misery. Protect yourself and yours. Do not contribute to her cheating life in any way. And start repairing yourself.


----------



## VladDracul

Nickel Speed said:


> If I drove her away, I don't blame her.


Nickel, your actions as a beta, needy, male may have contributed to her losing romantic interest in you or it may have been all on her end. In either case, sometime lowered her interest level long before this guy came along. Her interest in you ain't coming back no matter what you do. You need to change how you handle yourself with woman my man. Begging and groveling is the worst thing you can do. That alone causes them to lose respect and a woman cannot love a man she doesn't respect. She may hate you and love you but she can't love you and not respect you.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I don't think I am a beta male.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Matter of fact, I don't think I really buy into the whole beta or alpha argument.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Nickel Speed said:


> We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.
> 
> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel
Speed;19795445 said:


> We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.
> 
> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.


Begging, chasing just pushes them farther away. It will also lower your status because it makes you look weak and unnattractive while making her other man look stronger and even more attractive.

Talking at this time will get you nothing. You need a hard 180 no contact. If you can't get that done you'll just dig a deeper hole for yourself.

I hope you wake up


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel, I'm sorry you're going through this situation. It sounds like you've got some serious trust issues going back to your childhood. The trauma and betrayal of your wife's recent actions will only worsen those issues. You also sound like a self-made man who has had to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and solve your own problems, but you can't white-knuckle your way out of this one by yourself. You don't need to hear about my personal experience with this, but I can't emphasize enough how important it is that you get some professional counseling to address those demons. You won't be truly happy with yourself or successful in future relationships until you do.


----------



## TDSC60

You never answered - how long have you been married?

If she cut out sex for you 4 months ago, then that is probably when she got physical with her OM. She did not want to cheat on him with you. Not uncommon behavior for cheaters. Get yourself checked for STDs.


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

Op, do you know when exactly your wife started her “relationship “ ? Was it before or after your separation?


----------



## jlg07

Have you seen a lawyer yet? Have you made plans to get out of this (You know you can START a D and always stop it -- but you certainly need to do SOMETHING to show your wife how serious you are -- trying to NICE her back will NOT WORK)


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> Nickel
> Speed;19795445 said:
> 
> 
> 
> We talked again last night sort of. Both apologized.
> 
> I made a grave mistake and begged her back again this morning. I'm such a damn fool.
> 
> 
> 
> Begging, chasing just pushes them farther away. It will also lower your status because it makes you look weak and unnattractive while making her other man look stronger and even more attractive.
> 
> Talking at this time will get you nothing. You need a hard 180 no contact. If you can't get that done you'll just dig a deeper hole for yourself.
> 
> I hope you wake up
Click to expand...

180 no contact isn't possible with our child. Each night we let her video chat with the other parent at bedtime too. And it really does make things better instead of wonderin where her other parent is.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Satisfied Mind said:


> Nickel, I'm sorry you're going through this situation. It sounds like you've got some serious trust issues going back to your childhood. The trauma and betrayal of your wife's recent actions will only worsen those issues. You also sound like a self-made man who has had to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and solve your own problems, but you can't white-knuckle your way out of this one by yourself. You don't need to hear about my personal experience with this, but I can't emphasize enough how important it is that you get some professional counseling to address those demons. You won't be truly happy with yourself or successful in future relationships until you do.


I can and will handle it. It just may take some trial and error.


----------



## Nickel Speed

TDSC60 said:


> You never answered - how long have you been married?
> 
> If she cut out sex for you 4 months ago, then that is probably when she got physical with her OM. She did not want to cheat on him with you. Not uncommon behavior for cheaters. Get yourself checked for STDs.


Married. 3 years. Together, 9.



Ms. Hawaii said:


> Op, do you know when exactly your wife started her “relationship “ ? Was it before or after your separation?


I'm not sure. I couldn't get a date out of her.




jlg07 said:


> Have you seen a lawyer yet? Have you made plans to get out of this (You know you can START a D and always stop it -- but you certainly need to do SOMETHING to show your wife how serious you are -- trying to NICE her back will NOT WORK)



Well, I sat down and made a list of everything we were separating and a custody plan. I let her read it last night and she was in agreement. Figured I'd take our tax return and file.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Matter of fact, I don't think I really buy into the whole beta or alpha argument.


I agree but that takes nothing away from the fact that you are begging for a women who treated you like crap. Not a good look.


----------



## VladDracul

Nickel Speed said:


> Matter of fact, I don't think I really buy into the whole beta or alpha argument.


It doesn't matter what you or I buy into. The only thing that matters is what caused her to lose interest in you. She may be the type that will love a guy forever and when forever ends after a few years, she's gone. Based on what I've seen however, nothing speeds up the process like a needy, "yes my queen" type guy. The chicks like a challenge my man. Rather than listening to me, you can ask several women what they think and get a reading. If you are doing something that unknowingly lowers their romantic interest, corrective action may improve your odds.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> 180 no contact isn't possible with our child. Each night we let her video chat with the other parent at bedtime too. And it really does make things better instead of wonderin where her other parent is.


You can do limited contact. Just cut any engagement with the wayward wife.


----------



## [email protected]

Good God Nickel! Start the hard 180 right now, and don't back off. I have a hard time believing this!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Married. 3 years. Together, 9.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure. I couldn't get a date out of her.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I sat down and made a list of everything we were separating and a custody plan. I let her read it last night and she was in agreement. Figured I'd take our tax return and file.


The 180 in your case means communicating with your wayward only about the particulars of your child that you may effectively co-parent. It can also include the logistics of being separated and perhaps the filing of divorce as long as she is cooperating as in keeping costs down and getting it over with quicker. 

It means not asking her questions like why and when it started. She is simply going to lie to you as she has for months and only admit to that which you can prove. This is straight from the cheaters handbook. They all do it. Getting these stupid, evasive answers do nothing to help you and actually only retard the going forward of your emotional well-being and acceptance of what is occurring. 

I can tell you this. There is no doubt in my mind she was in a emotional and physical affair well before she move out. Before she stopped having sex with you and started complaining about the marriage. I would bet looking back on it you know realize she was starting arguments over nothing and re-writing the marriage to express her unhappiness. This is also straight from the cheaters handbook. As the POS OM slowly replaced you in her heart she continued to smile and act like the normal women you have known for years. When her emotional attachment to him was complete is when she could not bear to have sex with you and stopped. As others have pointed out she could not bear to cheat on her lover. So she moved out and started coming around bouncy happy. Why not? She was getting regular sex without you staring at her making her feel guilty. As soon as you got clingy and tried to talk her into fixing the relationship she could be non committal, evasive and walk away without having to look at the face of the man she was betraying. 

If you insist on talking to her to 'tell her how you feel and how could she" I suggest you get a STD test and hand her the results and the bill. Her immediate reaction will speak volumes. 

Hopefully she hasn't given you a STD. 

If she squawks and insists that the 'affair' started after she moved out remind her that the sheer volume of lies that have poured out if mouth her for months speaks for themselves and there really isn't anything to add to the matter.


----------



## Spicy

Look OP.

You came here asking for help. Pretty much you have disagreed with everything we have told you.

I’ll mention the gist:
We said: She’s having an affair. You said: No, you must be a bunch of jaded cheaters, she is not having an affair!

We said: Get a PI she’s cheating. You said: I don’t want to, I always know what she is doing. 

We said: She moved out because she doesn’t want to work on the marriage. You said: No, she moved out because she wants to work on the marriage.

I could go on and on but you get the point... When someone suggests you are acting like a Beta (you are) you of course say they are wrong. So I go back to what I said to you at the beginning... If you have everything figured out and our advice is all so off, then why not only give advice on here rather than asking us for it? Or consider actually taking some of the advice!

Its like you want someone to say, “You are such a great husband and stud, she will come running back to you soon man! No worries!” I don’t think anyone here will be saying that anytime soon. 

You clearly have no true intentions of accepting any of the good, logical advice you have received on here, like 25 pages worth at this point! In fact, when she is saying “ I DO” to her next husband while 9 months pregnant with *his* baby you will still be waiting for her and thinking she will come back to you.

She has moved out! She is having hot passionate sex with a new man! She has TOLD you she is currently cheating on you! She has told you she does not want to get back together with you! Your reaction? Apologize and ask her to take you back. !!??!! You truly are leaving me :surprise: I have no idea what we can say to get through to you.


----------



## Rock_Singer

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> More proof of an ongoing affair, Your wayward had the usual cheaters concerns about looking bad in everyone's eyes so she tried to keep her lover stashed while she figured out how to finish dumping you. Her problem was she had no real reason to leave without looking like a a-hole so she figured by moving out you two would just grow apart and go your separate ways. Meanwhile she could secretly get her groove on with OM. Later on when the coast was clear and she would not lose face she could introduce the new man and claim they met after separation and look respectable in everyone's eyes. I cannot count how many times I have witnessed this and it always has the same mantra - "I did not want to hurt their feelings" Complete BS.
> .


Gosh, this exactly happened to me. Ive never seen it written out this way. 
It was sad to read it now, even though it happened exactly 15 years ago.
I guess time does heal, but you'll never forget.

OP, when I first read your story, I knew there had to be something going on.
Everyone was spot on in their assessment. 
Just protect yourself emotionally. You didnt force her to make the choices she made...its all on her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Nickel, I think you would be better off going to a Disney form because you are honestly living in a fairy tale. You live in a state of denial.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

StarFires said:


> Something that might calm your nerves and soothe the emotions is *St. John's Wart*.


 That would be St. John's Wort, but hey, it's just a word thing, you know, don't use them if you don't know what they mean. We don't want NickelSpeed to get warts on top of his other problems.

@Nickel Speed, 
Do you want advice or just want to vent, because as @Spicy stated above you have gotten a ****-ton of great, accurate advice and seem to want to do the opposite?


----------



## StarFires

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't think I am a beta male.


Not regarding your whole marriage or your whole life, think about everything you did and said to your wife from the time she told you she was separating. Think of everything - every action, every statement, every behavior, everything you said, every time you cried - all of it. 

Now understand this: all of THAT were actions based on beta characteristics. 

All of your actions are beta. Being that you don't think you are a beta male only means you don't know what the beta traits and characteristics are. And now you know.



Nickel Speed said:


> Matter of fact, I don't think I really buy into the whole beta or alpha argument.


It really doesn't matter if you buy into it or not because the laws of attraction don't change themselves based on whether or not a person knows about them or whether or not a person believes in them. Either a person, based on appearance and behavior, is appealing to the opposite sex or they're not. Therefore, a woman will be attracted to a guy based on his appearance and how he conducts himself. Conversely, a guy's appearance and his actions can put a woman off from him and make her lose love and respect for him. What appeals to a woman and what she finds unappealing are primal and innate to her. It's not based on any decisions she makes. It's not as though she decides to love a man or not love a man, nor does she decide to have respect or to lose respect. Either he attracts and maintains her love and respect by the characteristics he displays or he doesn't attract and can lose a woman's love and respect by the characteristics he displays. Because you don't know about them and don't believe in the alpha and beta male laws of attraction, you behaved in such ways that your wife was unable to maintain respect for you. This doesn't justify her cheating at all. That defines the type of woman she is if she began seeing this guy before she left the marriage. As I said before, some people think leaving the marriage makes seeing other people okay and don't realize that it's still cheating up until the actual divorce, so she might not know, I can't be certain. So, if she began it before leaving, it means she possesses and displayed some very unappealing and immoral characteristics of her own.

You have a pattern of behavior in not listening. You didn't listen to your wife, and you're not listening here, and that is a very unappealing characteristic. You should google alpha and beta traits and characteristics to learn how to comport yourself in more attractive ways for not only women but all those you encounter because life is for learning, but you can't learn if you refuse to listen to the lessons. Ignoring people in favor of your preferences means you're only thinking about yourself and what you want to accomplish. Some things are accomplished by sheer determination and taking the bull by the horns, but women need to know they are valued.


----------



## Mr.Married

5 speed :

You need to get out and go ride your motorcycle for a while. Clear your head. Go fix something in your shop.


----------



## StarFires

Rubix Cubed said:


> That would be St. John's Wort, but hey, it's just a word thing, you know, don't use them if you don't know what they mean. We don't want NickelSpeed to get warts on top of his other problems


Aw, my bad for misspelling. I still suggest he get it whatever the spelling and it'll be helpful for him right now. But you know, his username is Nickel Speed, not NickelSpeed.


----------



## Robbie1234

Nickel Speed said:


> No. I was happy that even her own mother is on my side. It was good to hear. I suspect much of her family will be.


It doesn't matter who is on your side, your wife isn't.


----------



## Rock_Singer

OP do you think she is coming bacK? She won't. She never will.
I thought this stuff too when I went thru it 15 years ago.
My XW is now married to the guy. I lived in denial about it.

I know you think your case is probably unique, but it isn't.
At least you came to a place like this & got advice.
I know it hurts to realize what is going on. It has scarred me for the rest of my life.
You want to give her a chance..you might feel some sort of empathy for her...But don't.
She doesn't deserve it. If you think about it, she not only did this to you, she also did this to your child as well.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I still dont think I am a beta. I think I am heartbroken and making bad decision because of it to relieve the pain.


----------



## My 8 year mistake

She did it because she could. Nothing too complicated about it. You can't make her do anything.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> I still dont think I am a beta. I think I am heartbroken and making bad decision because of it to relieve the pain.


Probably true, but when are you going to wake up and take action to finally do something healthy in the long run and not try to mend your broken heart with a band-aid you call wife?


----------



## StillSearching

Lostinthought61 said:


> Nickel, I think you would be better off going to a Disney form because you are honestly living in a fairy tale. You live in a state of denial.


I came here, it took years of the 2x4. 
I got it.
Nickel is Beta and has a head of lead to withstand the 2x4's. 
But I was hard headed too. So if your still here Nickel, Your marriage is history. 
Get on with your life.
Well, you will anyway at the hands of your wife. 
If she takes the time to get them off the other guys member.


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> I still dont think I am a beta. I think I am heartbroken and making bad decision because of it to relieve the pain.


Wait, whhaaattttt??? You don’t agree with us??? :surprise:


----------



## Nickel Speed

So, being rude helps you convince others? It's never worked for me.


----------



## dubsey

Just because you don't like to hear and don't agree with it doesn't make it rude. It's been blunt, sure, but it hasn't been rude.

Tell her good luck and quit engaging her at all and watch what happens. Just because your kid video chats doesn't mean you need to say a word other than "hi, here's little Susie" and walk away.

Also - this was probably an exit affair, and if that's the case, you'll never get her back anyway, she was checked out a while ago and probably didn't know it herself.


----------



## Nickel Speed

dubsey said:


> Just because you don't like to hear and don't agree with it doesn't make it rude. It's been blunt, sure, but it hasn't been rude.
> 
> Tell her good luck and quit engaging her at all and watch what happens. Just because your kid video chats doesn't mean you need to say a word other than "hi, here's little Susie" and walk away.
> 
> Also - this was probably an exit affair, and if that's the case, you'll never get her back anyway, she was checked out a while ago and probably didn't know it herself.


The way it was said was rude.


----------



## StillSearching

I would like to petition a moderator to give me my 10 days back please.


----------



## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> dubsey said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just because you don't like to hear and don't agree with it doesn't make it rude. It's been blunt, sure, but it hasn't been rude.
> 
> Tell her good luck and quit engaging her at all and watch what happens. Just because your kid video chats doesn't mean you need to say a word other than "hi, here's little Susie" and walk away.
> 
> Also - this was probably an exit affair, and if that's the case, you'll never get her back anyway, she was checked out a while ago and probably didn't know it herself.
> 
> 
> 
> The way it was said was rude.
Click to expand...

Your wife is screwing another man but you are more upset because a total stranger was rude to you over the internet. 
Really dude?Really?


----------



## Nickel Speed

Andy1001 said:


> Your wife is screwing another man but you are more upset because a total stranger was rude to you over the internet.
> Really dude?Really?



More upset? No.

A person wants to know why someone won't listen to them when they are being rude. Want to know which responses I have been more open to? Example: "I understand why you feel that way, but this is what you should be doing right now."

I'm trying to help them convince me. "Tough love" does not work. 

Every time I build up some confidence and start to do the right thing, someone throws in my face that my wife is ****ing another man. It is not helping me be angry at my wife. It isn't helping anything. Stop. It would probably be best if I took the advice I have got from here, saved it, and never came back.


----------



## dubsey

Ok, seriously. We all get that you're hurting, but, take a break from your own stuff, and go read through some other threads, and you'll come across common themes.

1. A lot of people start off like you, hurting, and don't want to hear it
2. they leave because they don't want to hear it, they know better, their situation is different.
3. they come back and say "you were right"

it happens so so very often.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> More upset? No.
> 
> A person wants to know why someone won't listen to them when they are being rude. Want to know which responses I have been more open to? Example: "I understand why you feel that way, but this is what you should be doing right now."
> 
> I'm trying to help them convince me. "Tough love" does not work.
> 
> Every time I build up some confidence and start to do the right thing, someone throws in my face that my wife is ****ing another man. It is not helping me be angry at my wife. It isn't helping anything. Stop. It would probably be best if I took the advice I have got from here, saved it, and never came back.


If you don't take the advice.....you'll be back!


----------



## StillSearching

dubsey said:


> ok, seriously. We all get that you're hurting, but, take a break from your own stuff, and go read through some other threads, and you'll come across common themes.
> 
> 1. A lot of people start off like you, hurting, and don't want to hear it
> 2. They leave because they don't want to hear it, they know better, their situation is different.
> 3. They come back and say "you were right"
> 
> it happens so so very often.


* raises hand*


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> More upset? No.
> 
> A person wants to know why someone won't listen to them when they are being rude. Want to know which responses I have been more open to? Example: "I understand why you feel that way, but this is what you should be doing right now."
> 
> I'm trying to help them convince me. "Tough love" does not work.
> 
> Every time I build up some confidence and start to do the right thing, someone throws in my face that my wife is ****ing another man. It is not helping me be angry at my wife. It isn't helping anything. Stop. It would probably be best if I took the advice I have got from here, saved it, and never came back.


I think the frustration for many of us in these kinds of situations is we know you don't have any control over this. We have seen it over and over this is going to go only one way. So really you being mad at us or ignoring our advice and telling us we are being mean to you by saying it really doesn't matter. 

The bottom line is you can't make someone love you. In the end you are probably going to regret your actions right now once you get better. But like a lot of people I guess you are going to have to go through it.


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

jlg07 said:


> To be clear, if SHE wanted to move out to "work on your marriage", it really makes no sense - she can't work on it if she isn't there..
> GENERALLY when they want to move out, it means she wants to bang someone (or more than one) else. She may have already had her partner picked out and she is blaming the marriage stuff on YOU so that she can justify the affair.
> Check your cell phone bill to see if she has any calls to/from a number you don't recoginize and texts to a number that seems way too high. This is just a first step to see if she is having an affair.


Monkey branching and Plan B in effect here...


----------



## BarbedFenceRider

Awhile back...I also had some of my TAM friends scream and shove the behaviors of myself and the relationship in my face...They were NOT being rude. I was being given a 2x4 of reality to the head. I needed it. And it helped me tremendously. Others got me off the waffling stage and denials. I learned the 180 and quit the negative cycle. So, it takes hard work. But it isn't such a bad pill to swallow. Considering your partner who took vows WITH you, is now looking for gratification elsewhere....


----------



## Rock_Singer

Nickel Speed, I dont think you're a Beta either. I think its the situation.
Ive noticed there are two different ways people approach a situation like yours (mine too) when they are confronted by it.

1) One group gets mad as hell. They want total destruction on the cheating person & all those helping them.
Nothing less than burning everything down to the earth.
I get it. I do. I have family like that. Its not my personality, but I get it & respect it.
Its great that some folks can get to this mindset. They instantly protect themselves emotionally.
They don't cry or get depressed for weeks (or months in my case) on end. They are severely strong emotional people.

2) The other is (was) like myself. We got sad & depressed. I begged & begged for her to love me & for us to be together.
I had bouts of being strong though....Im the one who filed for D. But I thought my life was over when the D was official. 
I wanted to kill myself & went so far as the get everything I needed to make it happen. 
I blamed myself thinking I forced her into finding someone else...since I was such an a-hole of a guy (at least in my mind at the time)
From the outside, I probably appeared as a weak emotional baby trapped in a man's body.
I couldnt help it though, or at least I couldnt think in a different way....Maybe it is the way my brain was wired.

Anyway I'm not saying that you belong to either group. You'll find your way out of all this soon enough. 
With the internet, thank goodness there are places like this to read other peoples stories...I just wished I had found it back 15 years ago.
I think maybe others get frustrated when they see someone like yourself go thru this same path that they went thru...
Not everyone is in group one at the beginning.
You'll be fine. Ive changed.....I f#cking hate my XW now....She is a POS wh#re. There, I got it out.


----------



## Andy1001

Nickel Speed said:


> More upset? No.
> 
> A person wants to know why someone won't listen to them when they are being rude. Want to know which responses I have been more open to? Example: "I understand why you feel that way, but this is what you should be doing right now."
> 
> I'm trying to help them convince me. "Tough love" does not work.
> 
> Every time I build up some confidence and start to do the right thing, someone throws in my face that my wife is ****ing another man. It is not helping me be angry at my wife. It isn't helping anything. Stop. It would probably be best if I took the advice I have got from here, saved it, and never came back.


Ok this will be my last post on your thread.
Reading your story is like watching a cruise liner heading towards a jetty at thirty knots.Everybody knows what’s going to happen and everyone except the captain knows nothing can stop the final crash.
You are going to crash and burn dude and you are looking for any bit of string to hold on to but it’s not going to be enough.You refuse to listen to advice so I wish you luck.
You are going to need it.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel Speed said:


> The way it was said was rude.


No one is trying to be rude to you; just blunt. You've got a lot of people here who have been where you're standing now, and they're trying to save you a lot of pain they went through. 

Have you talked to a lawyer yet for advice on how to protect yourself in this situation?


----------



## StillSearching

It's funny how Beta's can't see Beta's.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Life of the party. Never had a problem with women until now. First to volunteer to help another. 
Doesn't really matter if you think I am a beta. Nothing to prove.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> Life of the party. Never had a problem with women until now. First to volunteer to help another.
> Doesn't really matter if you think I am a beta. Nothing to prove.


Look it's time for you to work on you.
Fix your psyche!
Read "12 rules for life" 
Get your mental state together. 
You're drowning and only you can help you.


----------



## StillSearching

Or try this


----------



## Nickel Speed

Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I don't buy into that Alpha Beta crap either. What you need to do is listen to advice on how to protect and heal yourself. The hurt that she has caused is very real. The first step is to see her for what she is - nothing more and nothing less. That is a tough first step if you were in love with her.

But now she has shown you, very clearly, what she is. You have GOT TO STOP ENGAGING WITH HER. Its like us telling you to stop putting your hand in the fire yet you feel compelled to do so. She engages with you to make herself feel good - very selfishly. Don't enable her to do this. She knows that she has been a [email protected] and wants to assuage her guilt. And this has nothing to do with the state of your marriage leading up to her [email protected]

Let her know in no uncertain terms that you are NOT her friend, and only want to talk about matters pertaining to the kids and the divorce and only if absolutely necessary. Most stuff should go through your lawyer.

You need to literally block out everything she says or else you will get pulled back in.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


Your wife is a selfish *******. Pretty simple. She has no care for the pain she is causing you and no shame. Decent people even when they move forward know not to rub your nose in it. I broke up with my first girlfriend and I still feel bad about it even though I wasn't an ass about it. Seriously your wife is a ****. 

Dude move on. You can do better.


----------



## Rock_Singer

Nickel Speed said:


> Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


Yeah, I got that same sh#t too. It was horrible to be on the receiving end of this type of stuff.
"I'm out having fun, its a great time, I'm super happy..and I'm telling you about it...."
She can't see what she's doing as emotional abuse. Its almost like bragging. Its weird.

You know its over. If she had any respect for you, she wouldnt be flaunting it in your face or acting like nothing is going on.
I dont know any advice than to ignore this b#tch. 
I have a lot of room to talk though...i kept contact w my WW even when I knew the truth. Over & over.
My WW kept telling me that she didnt want to talk to me. She already had this other guy. I was the one that kept it going & hoping she would snap out of it.
Everyone I know, my parents esp, had to see me as this weird needy person....because they saw it for what it really was...that i was wasting my time.
I feel bad for putting them thru it. But they werent feeling it like I was. So I know what it feels like.

Idk, maybe get angry about all this garbage. The more she contacts you, the more it takes to get rid of the pain.
If not for you, for your kid. Your wife is disrespecting both of you.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

StarFires said:


> Aw, my bad for misspelling. I still suggest he get it whatever the spelling and it'll be helpful for him right now. But you know, his username is Nickel Speed, not NickelSpeed.


 Thanks StartsFires.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


The truth is out. I suspect she thinks she can now live openly with Her other man. You just don't matter much. 

Seek the truth not what you want to see.

I hope you aren't participating in this stupid bull****.


----------



## manwithnoname

Rubix Cubed said:


> Thanks StartsFires.


Good one, Rubik's ! :grin2:


----------



## sokillme

jrjr said:


> Yeah, I got that same sh#t too. It was horrible to be on the receiving end of this type of stuff.
> "I'm out having fun, its a great time, I'm super happy..and I'm telling you about it...."
> She can't see what she's doing as emotional abuse. Its almost like bragging. Its weird.
> 
> You know its over. If she had any respect for you, she wouldnt be flaunting it in your face or acting like nothing is going on.
> I dont know any advice than to ignore this b#tch.
> I have a lot of room to talk though...i kept contact w my WW even when I knew the truth. Over & over.
> My WW kept telling me that she didnt want to talk to me. She already had this other guy. I was the one that kept it going & hoping she would snap out of it.
> Everyone I know, my parents esp, had to see me as this weird needy person....because they saw it for what it really was...that i was wasting my time.
> I feel bad for putting them thru it. But they werent feeling it like I was. So I know what it feels like.
> 
> Idk, maybe get angry about all this garbage. The more she contacts you, the more it takes to get rid of the pain.
> If not for you, for your kid. Your wife is disrespecting both of you.



It comes from being too nice. They think of you as their Dad. It's the height of entitlement. Which is why it's foolish to be a KISA they always end up walking all over you.


----------



## Tron

Nickel Speed said:


> Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


Translation: _I just makes me feel all giddy and happy when I have my BF inside me and my husband pining for me, wiping my tushy and giving me all kinds of attention and ego kibbles. I have my BF for the sex and physical stuff and my husband to dump all my emotional garbage on._ 




She is a vampire. Get rid of her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Trying not to all keep slipping back in. Then keep getting pissed at myself.

I'm not as depressed as I was..not most of the time anyway. Downloaded a couple dating apps. Looks like my options are crap at this age. Either 4 kids with 4 dads, or genuinely unpleasant, and I hate to be shallow, but mostly unattractive. ..or they are 4 hours away.

Used to be able to get on one of these sites and meet a new woman every night... not even 1 now.

I'm not trying to move straight to a new relationship. Just thought it'd be nice to get out of the house this weekend with someone.


----------



## manwithnoname

Nickel Speed said:


> Trying not to all keep slipping back in. Then keep getting pissed at myself.
> 
> I'm not as depressed as I was..not most of the time anyway. Downloaded a couple dating apps. Looks like my options are crap at this age. Either 4 kids with 4 dads, or genuinely unpleasant, and I hate to be shallow, but mostly unattractive. ..or they are 4 hours away.
> 
> Used to be able to get on one of these sites and meet a new woman every night... not even 1 now.
> 
> I'm not trying to move straight to a new relationship. Just thought it'd be nice to get out of the house this weekend with someone.


**** dating apps. Get out and do things you like doing. The rest will fall into place.


----------



## Marc878

If you don't cut her off you'll just remain stuck. I have to talk to her because of the child is an excuse. Others do it. So can you.

Right now you heal you. You can't do that with her in the picture.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Tonight she told me she's never been happier than she is now... all the while she keeps sending me memes and chatting like nothing ever happened.


Block her number. 

File. 

Set up a google calendar with parenting plan.

"All communication to be strictly about our daughter Jane Doe on parenting calendar."

Done. 

Choice is yours.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Trying not to all keep slipping back in. Then keep getting pissed at myself.
> 
> I'm not as depressed as I was..not most of the time anyway. Downloaded a couple dating apps. Looks like my options are crap at this age. Either 4 kids with 4 dads, or genuinely unpleasant, and I hate to be shallow, but mostly unattractive. ..or they are 4 hours away.
> 
> Used to be able to get on one of these sites and meet a new woman every night... not even 1 now.
> 
> I'm not trying to move straight to a new relationship. Just thought it'd be nice to get out of the house this weekend with someone.


Revenge sex might sound like fun but dude, you are a hot mess. It has barely been a week since you got stabbed. 

Yes, get out of the house. Just stay away from women for now. You are a wounded man. They may sense it and run. Another crush to the ego. 

Women will come in due time. 

Do you have any friends you can hang with this weekend to keep you busy? 

Do you ski?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

You could also post all her memes and comments on Facebook and Instagram with her name as a hashtag. 

With the comments and memes you could have a running commentary on what kind of person lies and cheats to their 3 year old daughter's father for months then jokes around like nothing happened on Valentines day. 

I would put comments like only a narcissistic, evil, cruel sociopath devoid of empathy and humanity. Someone who could never be trusted. I would put comments like I will spend the rest of my life letting my daughter how her mother practiced the cruelest deception for months then giggled happiness on Valentine's day to rub it it. I will make sure you my daughter know that you growing up in a broken home made mommy happy because mommy could not be honest with me. Instead she lowered her boundaries, then spread her legs for some a-hole. Then lied about it for months. I would also make sure she understood that my daughter is to learn as little of her mothers life lessons as possible so that she too does not come to grow up to be a lying, backstabbing, untrustworthy shell of a human being.

That might stop her.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

manwithnoname said:


> Good one, Rubik's ! :grin2:


 @Bibi1031 gets the credit for that, not me. She nailed it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trying not to all keep slipping back in. Then keep getting pissed at myself.
> 
> I'm not as depressed as I was..not most of the time anyway. Downloaded a couple dating apps. Looks like my options are crap at this age. Either 4 kids with 4 dads, or genuinely unpleasant, and I hate to be shallow, but mostly unattractive. ..or they are 4 hours away.
> 
> Used to be able to get on one of these sites and meet a new woman every night... not even 1 now.
> 
> I'm not trying to move straight to a new relationship. Just thought it'd be nice to get out of the house this weekend with someone.
> 
> 
> 
> Revenge sex might sound like fun but dude, you are a hot mess. It has barely been a week since you got stabbed.
> 
> Yes, get out of the house. Just stay away from women for now. You are a wounded man. They may sense it and run. Another crush to the ego.
> 
> Women will come in due time.
> 
> Do you have any friends you can hang with this weekend to keep you busy?
> 
> Do you ski?
Click to expand...

I don't ski. Could maybe hang out with a friend.

Wasn't trying to have sex, just go out.

Weird, but I don't even want sex.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't ski. Could maybe hang out with a friend.
> 
> Wasn't trying to have sex, just go out.
> 
> Weird, but I don't even want sex.


You'd just been thru a devastating ordeal. You need friends or family. Chasing women is the last thing you need right now.

If you find out who her other man is and if he's married you should inform his wife.


----------



## Marc878

This isn't th End of your world. Far from it. 

You will be fine once you've been able to cut contact


----------



## MattMatt

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> Block her number.
> 
> File.
> 
> Set up a google calendar with parenting plan.
> 
> "All communication to be strictly about our daughter Jane Doe on parenting calendar."
> 
> Done.
> 
> Choice is yours.


Except their are security issues with sharing a Google Calendar.


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You could also post all her memes and comments on Facebook and Instagram with her name as a hashtag.
> 
> 
> 
> With the comments and memes you could have a running commentary on what kind of person lies and cheats to their 3 year old daughter's father for months then jokes around like nothing happened on Valentines day.
> 
> 
> 
> I would put comments like only a narcissistic, evil, cruel sociopath devoid of empathy and humanity. Someone who could never be trusted. I would put comments like I will spend the rest of my life letting my daughter how her mother practiced the cruelest deception for months then giggled happiness on Valentine's day to rub it it. I will make sure you my daughter know that you growing up in a broken home made mommy happy because mommy could not be honest with me. Instead she lowered her boundaries, then spread her legs for some a-hole. Then lied about it for months. I would also make sure she understood that my daughter is to learn as little of her mothers life lessons as possible so that she too does not come to grow up to be a lying, backstabbing, untrustworthy shell of a human being.
> 
> 
> 
> That might stop her.




Op, don’t do this. Only a pathetic loser would do the above.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

MattMatt said:


> Except their are security issues with sharing a Google Calendar.


 Can you expound on this?


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel, I can’t imagine you’re even in a head space where you could really enjoy the distraction of another woman. 

The ONLY things that will get you to a place where things start to feel better are (1) cutting this selfish woman who used to be your wife out of your life as much as possible and (2) focusing your energy on yourself and your daughter. The more you engage with this woman, the worse you will feel as you ride that emotional rollercoaster and the longer your recovery will be. 

Bag/box up all her stuff, line up a consultation with an attorney (while she’s still in the fog of her affair, you can probably negotiate an exit on terms very favorable to you), set up a temporary visitation plan that minimizes or avoids you coming into contact with her, and go no contact otherwise.


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel....... I know it hurts. Mine was just over six years ago. It's still on TAM. And the hurt did not go

away overnight. I never knew if she cheated or not, walking out on the 15 years together without

a fight was why I dropped the D papers. She wanted us to stay M and do our own thing. I refused, tabled 

MC. She refused. So I dropped D papers. Did I want to....oh hells no. But I refused to allow what

was then going to be, a virtual open M. She played hardball at first. I asked her three times to work

on our M. All three were no. I dropped down the rabbit hole for several weeks. It was a dark, cold place.

But when I came out, I returned with strong boundaries, conviction, and a Rocky IV soundtrack.

I soon stepped into the Tao.... after that my XW didn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Sure she started reaching, telling me she wanted us to go out, even before the D final, start a spark....

but put it all in my lap to do it. I just laughed. It took several weeks away from her to realize, 

I didn't want to go back. Humans avoid pain... want things to go back to before the pain came. But you can't.

When I got back together with my 1st and 2nd love....it never ever was the same. You have to rip that 

band-aid off and let the pain run it's course. Eventually it has to.... no better time than now.

When I 180'd my XW, she made more reaches than a Roman bathhouse on dime beer night.

I laughed at them.....because I knew we were through. I would have handled it the same way if she 

had cheated, well 90% same. Once you distance yourself from her emotionally, there's a good chance

she will notice and make reaches. She will use the child to try and get you back in her orbit. She will also

use sex. If cheating is a deal breaker, then you are through with her. Only interact about child.

When she mentions her "fun times" hang up, or say "gotsta gos" and end it.

As @Tron said .... she is dumping her emotional garbage on you. Make her dump that on her OM.

She is an emotional vampire. Be glad she is gone. You will be one day... I promise.


----------



## MattMatt

Rubix Cubed said:


> Can you expound on this?


In some cases the person you share it with could take over control of it.


----------



## Sparta

Andy1001 said:


> Ok this will be my last post on your thread.
> Reading your story is like watching a cruise liner heading towards a jetty at thirty knots.Everybody knows what’s going to happen and everyone except the captain knows nothing can stop the final crash.
> You are going to crash and burn dude and you are looking for any bit of string to hold on to but it’s not going to be enough.You refuse to listen to advice so I wish you luck.
> You are going to need it.


 Andy you had me Rolling on the ground because that’s exactly what it’s like.! He’ll learn. Some guys just got a let them crash and burn and learn the hard way, and learn the hard way. I feel for this guy because he scared he doesn’t know what the **** is going on.! I’ve been there I think we’ve all been there and sometimes we’ve got to have a little empathy And sit back and watch his ship crash. After he crashes and burns. then maybe we can help him pick up the pieces that were his life and his failed marriage. Oh when I was younger I remember I made every god.amn mistake you could make. Someone would give me great advice I would do the exact opposite. I look back now and just cannot believe that I was that naïve and gullible and stupid. Boy did that change.! But I really don’t like the way I am Now more cynical more on alert for any wrong behavior. I think most of us are like this too if anybody were to try any kind of shenanigans most of us here could smell it and read it before they even knew they were doing it. We got ask ourselves is that winning the so-called relationship game. God bless


----------



## Chuck71

Ms. Hawaii said:


> *Op, don’t do this.* Only a pathetic loser would do the above.


I agree with bold. Your vocabulary used to describe someone who would do that is quite a bit offensive.

Would that person be a pathetic loser just because it would go against what your view is?

-Only a person in a desperate state /of fear - denial/ would do the above- Excellent reply.

Or -It would make you look like a pathetic loser- But you prefer calling the person a pathetic loser.

Completely uncalled for.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Another hard day. I'm struggling. Tax return came, so using that money to file and whatnot. That hit me hard. Three day weekend. I just want to lay on the couch and play video games. I don't have the kid. May be having a minor surgery this afternoon depending on what doctor says, so may not be able to do much anyway.

Trying to ignore and not respond to her texts. She offered to get me today if I do have a surgery. I told her it would not be necessary.


----------



## Marc878

Good job. Once you get a handle on no contact you'll do a lot better.

Clarity will come much faster. You'll see.


----------



## MattMatt

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> You could also post all her memes and comments on Facebook and Instagram with her name as a hashtag.
> 
> With the comments and memes you could have a running commentary on what kind of person lies and cheats to their 3 year old daughter's father for months then jokes around like nothing happened on Valentines day.
> 
> I would put comments like only a narcissistic, evil, cruel sociopath devoid of empathy and humanity. Someone who could never be trusted. I would put comments like I will spend the rest of my life letting my daughter how her mother practiced the cruelest deception for months then giggled happiness on Valentine's day to rub it it. I will make sure you my daughter know that you growing up in a broken home made mommy happy because mommy could not be honest with me. Instead she lowered her boundaries, then spread her legs for some a-hole. Then lied about it for months. I would also make sure she understood that my daughter is to learn as little of her mothers life lessons as possible so that she too does not come to grow up to be a lying, backstabbing, untrustworthy shell of a human being.
> 
> That might stop her.


Or get her to launch a libel action or have him banned from social media?

I think that's a good fantasy idea but the consequences might not be quite what NS would want?


----------



## Nickel Speed

I have no desire to stoop to that level or hurt her.


----------



## MattMatt

Ms. Hawaii said:


> Op, don’t do this. Only a pathetic loser would do the above.


Or someone who was hurt and destroyed beyond their ability to cope rationally?

Using pejorative and derogatory wording like that is hurtful rather than helpful, in my personal opinion.


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> So, being rude helps you convince others? It's never worked for me.


I am sorry I hurt your feelers. Others statements are true, we are trying to help you. 

My assessment is that you are a nice guy, who is in love with his wife. The wife he thought was a faithful one. As I mentioned before, I have not been cheated on, but I am divorced. Although the reasons why are very different, I think there may be some similarities in our situations on the husbands side.

Although I had been asking for a changes in my marriage for 15 years, my XH would change for a week or two, then slip back to his old ways. Eventually, I fell out of love with him. This took about 5 years total to finally accept he wasn’t going to make permanent changes, then to mourn the loss of my marriage, accept that it/we/I had failed and go get the divorce papers. 

XH was so shocked. He couldn’t believe I was really going to file and leave. He continued to be shocked and massively heart broken through all of it. I had already grieved, but he hadn’t noticed. He really thought I would stay no matter what. Now, all these years later, he is still devestated and still in love. His life is more stagnant than it ever was. He still dreams that I will divorce my current hubby and come back to him. I think my being so “nice” through all of it is why he has never been able to move on.

I don’t want that for you. I don’t want that for another human being. I hate seeing him like this. I want you to clearly see the signs that it is over. Maybe she would say she did it in a “nice” way by moving out and still being kind. She probably does care about you, and also wants a good coparenting relationship. Most likely for you though, it would have been better had she ripped your heart out from your chest by being bold, cruel and brutal. I couldn’t do it that way, and perhaps she couldn’t either, but it seems being kind gives false hopes, even when our words and actions prove otherwise. 

Please just see this for what it is, and do your best to move on from her, and not hope she comes back to you. You could miss out on so much of your life, pining for what once was.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She shared a FB post a few minutes ago: "I make no apologies for how I chose to repair what you broke."


----------



## Nickel Speed

Spicy said:


> I am sorry I hurt your feelers. Others statements are true, we are trying to help you.
> 
> My assessment is that you are a nice guy, who is in love with his wife. The wife he thought was a faithful one. As I mentioned before, I have not been cheated on, but I am divorced. Although the reasons why are very different, I think there may be some similarities in our situations on the husbands side.
> 
> Although I had been asking for a changes in my marriage for 15 years, my XH would change for a week or two, then slip back to his old ways. Eventually, I fell out of love with him. This took about 5 years total to finally accept he wasn’t going to make permanent changes, then to mourn the loss of my marriage, accept that it/we/I had failed and go get the divorce papers.
> 
> XH was so shocked. He couldn’t believe I was really going to file and leave. He continued to be shocked and massively heart broken through all of it. I had already grieved, but he hadn’t noticed. He really thought I would stay no matter what. Now, all these years later, he is still devestated and still in love. His life is more stagnant than it ever was. He still dreams that I will divorce my current hubby and come back to him. I think my being so “nice” through all of it is why he has never been able to move on.
> 
> I don’t want that for you. I don’t want that for another human being. I hate seeing him like this. I want you to clearly see the signs that it is over. Maybe she would say she did it in a “nice” way by moving out and still being kind. She probably does care about you, and also wants a good coparenting relationship. Most likely for you though, it would have been better had she ripped your heart out from your chest by being bold, cruel and brutal. I couldn’t do it that way, and perhaps she couldn’t either, but it seems being kind gives false hopes, even when our words and actions prove otherwise.
> 
> Please just see this for what it is, and do your best to move on from her, and not hope she comes back to you. You could miss out on so much of your life, pining for what once was.


Ours did not go on for 15 years. Maybe 2 years. At this point, I really have changed.

How do you know your ex was not finally able to change? Just curious.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> She shared a FB post a few minutes ago: "I make no apologies for how I chose to repair what you broke."


A cheater thinks nothing is her fault and doesn't take any responsibility for anything. In fact, she may even say that she's just following her destiny, God's will, or some other vomit-inducing justification. 

Do yourself a favor and delete and block her from all social media. Your contact with her should just be for issues about your daughter and the divorce.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

MattMatt said:


> Or get her to launch a libel action or have him banned from social media?
> 
> I think that's a good fantasy idea but the consequences might not be quite what NS would want?


For a libel action in USA to succeed the written words have to be demonstrably false. 

What's false? The only liar is her. 


But that is all besides the point. The point I was making is NS controls his side of the narrative, not his cheating wife. His cheating wife has zero say in what he tells his daughter or how he raises her on his time. 

Yes, there are subtler ways to get that point across to her while she prances around giddy like on his crushed heart on Valentines day.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> She shared a FB post a few minutes ago: "I make no apologies for how I chose to repair what you broke."


and so begins the propaganda tsunami of why I cheated - the classic - YOU made me...except I forgot to tell you what was broke. . 

Just block her. 

Consider publishing your own narrative.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> She shared a FB post a few minutes ago: "I make no apologies for how I chose to repair what you broke."


No contact

Block all social media - Facebook, etc
Never answer a phone call directly. Let it go to voicemail. If it's child or business related respond by text. Ignore anything else
All holidays, birthdays keep separate
Pickups/dropoffs limit to a 3 minute exercise with no engagement
Only respond text or Email for child or business, ignore the rest

If you can't get this done you will be her puppet on a string to jerk around as she pleases.

All cheaters rewrite the marital history to justify their affairs. There is no justification. This is very typical. Your wife is a very typical cheater. Nothing special about her at all. They all follow the same basic script for the most part.

You're only true path at this time is no contact.

Just because you have a child together doesn't mean you can't.

All you're doing with this continued contact is playing her game at your expense. Many betrayed fall into the "I want it to be my fault" so perhaps maybe I can fix it. You can't fix her. Only she could do that.

You really need to wake up here. You don't get it yet. She is taking action (the affair) because that's what she wanted to do. 

You aren't perfect but neither is she. Did her imperfections cause you to cheat? See the difference?


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> I have no desire to stoop to that level or hurt her.


Good, the best revenge is a life well lived period. It will take you some time, but in the end you will feel better. You do need to expose her to family and friends though. It is damage control since you have a child that will grow up one day and your WS may throw dirt on you because cheaters are also cowards and project their issues on their former partners. The dissolution of your marriage is 100% on her. The breaking of vows and stepping outside of the marriage is strictly 100% on her. 

Could you have been a better partner? Sure, who of us is perfect in any relationship. There is always room to grow. But did you deserve being lied to, cheated on, replaced while still married? No freaking way! no one deserves being demoted in marriage the way she did it. It was one sided, cruel, selfish and very much cowardly. 

In the work place when you are demoted or terminated unjustified you fight back. You have laws to protect you of this, but in marriage the only protection you have is damage control through exposure of the truth and filing for the legal dissolution of the marriage. Those are your only choices. You don't have to do them, but would you just walk away from a job is you were unjustly demoted or terminated? Why would you not defend yourself with the tools you do possess?

The sad thing is that this type of damage is not punishable by law because it is so prevalent and the working class would mostly be in jails and no one to keep society working...LOL. That is the sad truth and why laws don't do anything about the worst damage a loved one does to their family. 

Please take action ASAP. Your future relationship with your child when she becomes of age to dig up the truth may help you more than you can imagine right now. This is not one bit about revenge or getting back at your WS, it is to avoid the nasty ripple effect infidelity leaves in loved ones, especially the innocent children who have no say so in how their world implodes and they can't defend themselves against the trauma that will mold their future lives. My children were 11 and 16 when my marriage to a cheating spouse exploded in our lives. Needless to say, they had issues in their relationships. This happened in January of 2004. They are now adults and struggled, but now they understand some of the things their dad did that showed without me badmouthing him that the end of our family as their knew was because dad cheated. Son remembers his dad leaving him at his grandmother's and not coming to see him all weekend until Sunday evening when they were ready to fly back to the States. He would use our son as an excuse to fly to Mexico so that his brother could work on son's braces. His mom and sisters would take care of our son so he could be with his lover all weekend twice every month of 6 months!

Daughter caught the X using the phone and talking to someone that wouldn't answer who it was when daughter would accidentally pick up the home phone to call friends. Her father would get angry with her and demanded to hang up the phone because he was talking to his sister. Daughter realized it was his OW because if it would of been her aunts or other members of the family, why did they remain silent instead of saying hello?

I threatened my X that if he didn't accept what my lawyer had requested I would not blink an eye to put my children on the stand and have a judge decide how he could explain that son was used as an excuse to go see OW and why instead of taking care of his children while I was working, he was calling his OW on our home phone exposing the children to finding out daddy had a girlfriend while mom was busting her chops working two jobs to make ends meet!

Defend yourself because this is just beginning in regards to your child. She may be too young, but if she has developed language, she most certainly has memory. Those memories of something off this young will come back and she will add two and two together. You can bank on that. How you react will also create memories. Beg to a cheater no more!

Be civil, but detach. It will be in your best interest no matter how hard it is to not beg and hit that brick wall over and over. That is all you will get by having contact with your X. A huge headache because you will accomplish nothing except pain and suffering. She has built a huge brick wall when it comes to you and her. You cannot reach her. That is her defense mechanism and why she has no guilt or remorse. She can't feel what can't reach her. 

The 180 is your version of her brick wall. It is necessary for your emotional well being. Use it!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Marc878 said:


> No contact
> 
> Block all social media - Facebook, etc
> Never answer a phone call directly. Let it go to voicemail. If it's child or business related respond by text. Ignore anything else
> All holidays, birthdays keep separate
> Pickups/dropoffs limit to a 3 minute exercise with no engagement
> Only respond text or Email for child or business, ignore the rest
> 
> If you can't get this done you will be her puppet on a string to jerk around as she pleases.
> 
> All cheaters rewrite the marital history to justify their affairs. There is no justification. This is very typical. Your wife is a very typical cheater. Nothing special about her at all. They all follow the same basic script for the most part.
> 
> You're only true path at this time is no contact.
> 
> Just because you have a child together doesn't mean you can't.
> 
> All you're doing with this continued contact is playing her game at your expense. Many betrayed fall into the "I want it to be my fault" so perhaps maybe I can fix it. You can't fix her. Only she could do that.
> 
> You really need to wake up here. You don't get it yet. She is taking action (the affair) because that's what she wanted to do.
> 
> You aren't perfect but neither is she. Did her imperfections cause you to cheat? See the difference?


Perfect!! QFT.


----------



## NobodySpecial

MattMatt said:


> Except their are security issues with sharing a Google Calendar.


My sister and her ex use OurFamilyWizard.


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel Speed said:


> Another hard day. I'm struggling. Tax return came, so using that money to file and whatnot. That hit me hard. Three day weekend. I just want to lay on the couch and play video games. I don't have the kid. May be having a minor surgery this afternoon depending on what doctor says, so may not be able to do much anyway.
> 
> Trying to ignore and not respond to her texts. She offered to get me today if I do have a surgery. I told her it would not be necessary.


Getting a hobby would do wonders. Or getting back to one you had and spent much time with....

until you were with her. I got back into baseball cards during the separation. Spent about $500

on some sets and boxes. Sold them for about $600 and still kept some for myself.

Bet I spent a good 100 hours on them. So technically.... "I lost money when you add in work hours"

But that was not the important thing.....those hours spent on the cards, helped get my mind off of

Window Cork (STBXW). Even if I broke even $wise, still would have been a win.

If video games help you get your mind off of her, then do that. Find a gaming buddy....eat pizza, drink a few

beers, talk shop or sports. It will do wonders. Never forget.... you were living a happy life before you

met her. You can easily do it again. It should not take long to get your groove back.

About dating sites.....post yours on the free sites. Let them come to you....yes they do.

In the meantime go do your hobbies while your inbox fills up on POF and *******.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Best way to start a 180 while she is still able to contact me about the child? Her family watches the child during the work day. I pick her up each day because I am off of work first and wife comes to get her from me on her days. Each day she is taking some of her stuff from home too.

I have no desire to take away video chat in the evenings because I feel like it does daughter good, and it definitely does me good to see her. She gets to see us both every day.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Why do you call your child THE child?


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Why do you call your child THE child?


No particular reason?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Best way to start a 180 while she is still able to contact me about the child? Her family watches the child during the work day. I pick her up each day because I am off of work first and wife comes to get her from me on her days. Each day she is taking some of her stuff from home too.
> 
> I have no desire to take away video chat in the evenings because I feel like it does daughter good, and it definitely does me good to see her. She gets to see us both every day.


Just stick to conversations about the child. Keep the video chats. Anything else do not respond too. 

Consider packing all her stuff and just send it to her new place, This dribbling of her stuff is convenient for her.

For you, maybe not so much.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> Best way to start a 180 while she is still able to contact me about the child? Her family watches the child during the work day. I pick her up each day because I am off of work first and wife comes to get her from me on her days. Each day she is taking some of her stuff from home too.
> 
> When you pick up. Do not engage. Just say "I gotta go" and *LEAVE*. You don't owe any explanation to anyone. When she picks up have the child ready and meet her at the door. There is no reason for her to come into your home and chit chat. She's having an affair for gods sake. Box all her stuff up. Make sure you get everything, take all pictures of her down as well. Less reminders less hurt. Dragging this out just harms you more. Store it in the garage, etc. tell her everything is ready for her to pick up. Take control !!!!!
> 
> I have no desire to take away video chat in the evenings because I feel like it does daughter good, and it definitely does me good to see her. She gets to see us both every day.


You have your time she has hers. I've seen this play out and it's nothing more than an attempt to try and control the situation. You have zero control. Make your time focused. Quality is more important than quantity 
It's not like she goes a week without you. 

You are keeping yourself in this. You are the only one who can do that. Until you realize that you'll keep yourself bound up in this. Great for her getting the ego kibbles but it does absolutely nothing for you. In realty it's just a long drawn out harm that you are inflicting on yourself by not taking control.

The quicker you get this the better off you'll be.


----------



## Marc878

The 180 may seem awkward upfront. How awkward is her affair with her other man to you?

Why would you want to have that in your life?

You aren't perfect but neither is she. Did you have an affair because of her imperfections? See the difference?

No contact will normalize over time. Your child will adjust and so will you. It's your only good path forward. The sooner you get started the better.

You can control this as long as you stop letting you emotions control you.


----------



## wilson

Nickel Speed said:


> Best way to start a 180 while she is still able to contact me about the child? Her family watches the child during the work day. I pick her up each day because I am off of work first and wife comes to get her from me on her days. Each day she is taking some of her stuff from home too.


I would recommend having her pick up your daughter directly from her family's house. I don't think you need to pick up your daughter first. It's great that your daughter gets to stay with her grandparents. That's a perfect way to handle drop-off and pick-up without having contact with each other.


----------



## Chuck71

She left some of her things at the house for a reason. To still have you at arm's length while she figures

out if the OM is really what she wants. If he isn't, she'll be back to you. But if you are through

with her, her options are cut off. She just doesn't know it yet LOL Karma...

My BFF / former IC (knew her then over 20 years) told me at the first of my D, "She will go out and seek

someone. When she discovers there is no one else out there compared to what you and her had / have

then she will be back"

She was 110% exactly right. I refused to be Plan B. I refused to be an option...... I must be a priority.

Our D was final 2/1/13. Until I blocked her last year.... no more than six months would go by,

and she would be 'a reachin. Some were actually hilarious ones. I would literally LMFAO.

In a way I miss her pathetic attempts.....but I became serious with someone last year and I knew it

was best to just block her for good.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Chuck71 said:


> *She left some of her things at the house for a reason. To still have you at arm's length while she figures*
> 
> out if the OM is really what she wants. If he isn't, she'll be back to you. But if you are through
> 
> with her, her options are cut off. She just doesn't know it yet LOL Karma...
> 
> My BFF / former IC (knew her then over 20 years) told me at the first of my D, "She will go out and seek
> 
> someone. When she discovers there is no one else out there compared to what you and her had / have
> 
> then she will be back"
> 
> She was 110% exactly right. I refused to be Plan B. I refused to be an option...... I must be a priority.
> 
> Our D was final 2/1/13. Until I blocked her last year.... no more than six months would go by,
> 
> and she would be 'a reachin. Some were actually hilarious ones. I would literally LMFAO.
> 
> In a way I miss her pathetic attempts.....but I became serious with someone last year and I knew it
> 
> was best to just block her for good.


I don't think so on this part. She is getting quite a bit each time. It's just easier on her to move it that way and unpack at her apartment. Shouldn't be too many more loads.


Also, I don't think she'd ever come back.


----------



## Marc878

Nick,


None of this will be easy. Right now your world is turned upside down.

Your wayward wife has put you where you are but you are the one who will have to get yourself out.

No one can do that but you. 

Sorry you're here but many have gone through this. Don't lay in the victim chair saying woe is me. That will get you nothing.

If you can implement the no contact you will get through this. It's not the end of your world but can be the beginning of a new one. Many come out much wiser and better prepared. That's is totally up to you.

It won't be easy upfront but you can get there. The hardest part is starting. Once you put it together you'll do fine.

Keep posting. You will get help here.


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't think so on this part. She is getting quite a bit each time. It's just easier on her to move it that way and unpack at her apartment. Shouldn't be too many more loads.
> 
> 
> *Also, I don't think she'd ever come back*.


Then she is doing you the ultimate favor.....


----------



## Spicy

Nickel Speed said:


> Ours did not go on for 15 years. Maybe 2 years. At this point, I really have changed.
> 
> How do you know your ex was not finally able to change? Just curious.


Well, I lived with him during that 15 years and he kept reverting to all the same things he would work on, improve for a few weeks, and then start back into them again. He also wouldn’t follow through on things that would have helped him make a permenant change. We still are in very close contact, are friends, and are coparenting our last minor child. Not only has he not changed, he is sadly much worse. He lost the one person that was his biggest supporter and fan (me). Now he just wallows in depression and darkness. He has become extremely obese, has no friends, and tells me he could never be of value to any woman. Truly heartbreaking. I would so much like him to be able to find happiness somehow.

So, whatever her reasons, your wife left much sooner than I was able too. I loved him so much, and wanted to be there for him in every way I could. I was also extremely committed to my wedding vows, and desperately wanted our children to not be in a divorce situation. It ended up that I missed out on a decade and half of my life and happiness. But I’m not discussing this from my (her side). I’m trying to advise you to not let this devastate you to the point that _you_ don’t move on. My XH never got over our spilt and divorce, and he instead is still in that bed crying like you are.

I know this is fresh for you. Take your time to mourn, but then, work in way to get over her, and move on with your life, and find happiness again.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> She shared a FB post a few minutes ago: "I make no apologies for how I chose to repair what you broke."


She is an ******* but at least she is consistent.

By the way I think posting cryptic "uplifting" saying about ****ty behavior on social media is a giant red flag for narcissism. They almost always translate into -

I am so great I can do whatever I want and **** you if it hurts you. I need this and I am special enough that it doesn't matter the cost.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> I don't think so on this part. She is getting quite a bit each time. It's just easier on her to move it that way and unpack at her apartment. Shouldn't be too many more loads.
> 
> 
> Also, I don't think she'd ever come back.


Have it all ready at once. Outside, ready to go. If she needs multiple trips too bad. 

All the time she was messing around with the schmuck she could have finished moving. But that would have entailed her being honest with you. 

Tell her that.

At some point you have to take control of how you engage with her. So far she walks all over you and you take it. 

Put your foot down, enough is enough.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Like @sokillme said she's a narcissist.
All comms by text or email.
Block her on everything else.
If she calls it goes to voicemail and response should be in text or email.
Video chatting for your kid is fine, just don't be in them with your STBX.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nickel, for the love of God, BLOCK HER ON EVERYTHING YOU CAN. Messages, Facebook, Phone, the works ...

Email only for matters relating to kid and divorce.

And do not engage (as others have advised you) during handovers and pickups.

You think the contact makes you feel good but its more akin to a drug making you feel good temporarily (a fix if you like) while doing long term damage to you.

You will start to notice a marked improvement if you BLOCK, BLOCK, BLOCK !!!

And I totally agree with getting her to take all her **** in one go - pack it up for her in garbage bags and leave it by the door for her!


----------



## Nickel Speed

What is your end game?


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> What is your end game?


??


----------



## MattMatt

*Moderator message:-*

Nor more rude, belittling posts, no more argumentative posts, no more threadjacks.


----------



## jlg07

"Also, I don't think she'd ever come back."
So now it's time to get YOUR plan. Don't wait on her decisions for everything.
Get to a lawyer to gain knowledge about what the process is, get your finances figured out, get CHILD CUSTODY figured out, and steel yourself for what you already know is coming.


----------



## faithfulman

@Nickelspeed - I think you are making progress.

Cheaters have a script. Your STBXW (Soon-to-be Ex-Wife) has followed it to a "T".

The (BS) betrayed spouses have scripts too, and you have followed it as well. Denial, lashing out, bargaining, doldrums, loss of confidence, self-blaming, etc.

The other part of the BS script is to start taking action that moves yourself forward, that enforces consequences on the WS (Wayward Spouse) and generally allows you to take control of your life and to not just be a victim of the outcome as she wants it to go.

You see all the blunt advice you're getting? It may not be perfect, but it is mostly correct. Surely you see that by now.

I know a lot of the people trying to help you are frustrated with your style of communication, but I think you are making progress pretty fast after seeking our help.

You fought it, but you are still slowly applying it.

Hear it, apply it as it pertains to your situation, and you will come out of this situation in control.

Stay strong brother.


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

MattMatt said:


> Using pejorative and derogatory wording like that is hurtful rather than helpful, in my personal opinion.




You’re entitled to your opinion, and I stand by what I wrote. Feel free to ban me.


----------



## Nickel Speed

faithfulman said:


> @Nickelspeed - I think you are making progress.
> 
> Cheaters have a script. Your STBXW (Soon-to-be Ex-Wife) has followed it to a "T".
> 
> The (BS) betrayed spouses have scripts too, and you have followed it as well. Denial, lashing out, bargaining, doldrums, loss of confidence, self-blaming, etc.
> 
> The other part of the BS script is to start taking action that moves yourself forward, that enforces consequences on the WS (Wayward Spouse) and generally allows you to take control of your life and to not just be a victim of the outcome as she wants it to go.
> 
> You see all the blunt advice you're getting? It may not be perfect, but it is mostly correct. Surely you see that by now.
> 
> I know a lot of the people trying to help you are frustrated with your style of communication, but I think you are making progress pretty fast after seeking our help.
> 
> You fought it, but you are still slowly applying it.
> 
> Hear it, apply it as it pertains to your situation, and you will come out of this situation in control.
> 
> Stay strong brother.


I want to apply it. I've not had much luck. She's coming over to do her laundry and get more stuff after she's done grocery shopping.


----------



## Nickel Speed

My goal tonight is just not to beg, plea, or bargain. Act normal and indifferent. I'll update how that goes.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> I want to apply it. I've not had much luck. She's coming over to do her laundry and get more stuff after she's done grocery shopping.


No dude, don't let her come over! 

Tell her you are busy and you will let her know when she FSN do her laundry or whatever. 

And then don't reschedule. Let her do her laundry at her mother's or a friend's house.


----------



## Ms. Hawaii

faithfulman;19797725
Tell her you are busy and you will let her know when she FSN do her laundry or whatever.
And then don't reschedule. Let her do her laundry at her mother's or a friend's house.[/QUOTE said:


> Does she have a key?
> 
> Legally, you cannot prevent her from entering the marital house. You two are still legally married. She has the RIGHT to come over to take her stuff and do her laundry as long as she’s not threatening you.
> 
> Proceed carefully.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> I want to apply it. I've not had much luck. She's coming over to do her laundry and get more stuff after she's done grocery shopping.


Have all her stuff waiting by the door. All of it. 

As she has moved out and has her own apartment consider changing the locks. I would. She squawks ask for the keys to her new place. 

She can go to a public laundromat.


----------



## MattMatt

Ms. Hawaii said:


> You’re entitled to your opinion, and I stand by what I wrote. Feel free to ban me.


As I pointed out that was my* personal* opinion.

However, if you seriously want to be banned please put in a formal request.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

NS, 

You have the weekend off dude. Get out of Dodge. 

I mentioned skiing. 

Ok, you don't ski. Spend a few dollars on rentals and take a lesson. Spend a day or two falling down on the green slope and getting right back up! 

Just like dealing with your wayward. 

Might get your mind off of this a bit. 

Just an idea, something physical to do outside in CO in Feb.


----------



## Washashore

Nick,

Why on earth are you allowing her to come over and do her laundry? She’s decided she doesn’t want to be your wife. She’s already said she’s fired you from the husband job, and is bedding your replacement. Separate yourself from this. She can see your child on her days. This is what divorce looks like. Don’t let her cake eat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## faithfulman

@Nickelspeed - now is your chance to stand up to her and for yourself.

Start turning this around tonight. Do it. 

And watch how dramatically your interactions with her change. 

Come back here and tell us how all of a sudden how things changed with her behavior.

And notice how your interactions with this community change! 

WE DO SUPPORT YOU! 

You can do it brother!


----------



## Nickel Speed

faithfulman said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I want to apply it. I've not had much luck. She's coming over to do her laundry and get more stuff after she's done grocery shopping.
> 
> 
> 
> No dude, don't let her come over!
> 
> Tell her you are busy and you will let her know when she FSN do her laundry or whatever.
> 
> And then don't reschedule. Let her do her laundry at her mother's or a friend's house.
Click to expand...

She's also coming for our child.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Ms. Hawaii said:


> faithfulman;19797725
> Tell her you are busy and you will let her know when she FSN do her laundry or whatever.
> And then don't reschedule. Let her do her laundry at her mother's or a friend's house.[/QUOTE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does she have a key?
> 
> Legally, you cannot prevent her from entering the marital house. You two are still legally married. She has the RIGHT to come over to take her stuff and do her laundry as long as she’s not threatening you.
> 
> Proceed carefully.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. She has a key.
Click to expand...


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> She's also coming for our child.


Then hand off the child and tell her to do her laundry somewhere else. 

Nickel, I get the feeling you just want to see your wife, no matter the circumstances.

Maybe you need to see her as she is when she is cheating to get over that. 

I hope not. 

Also, she has a key? You need to remedy that, unless you have the key to her place. 

Start taking action! Just like your body building, this is a muscle you need to build, and the first few times you will feel weak and be sore as hell afterwards. 

But persevere! Don't give up!


----------



## MattMatt

Ms. Hawaii said:


> Check your PM. I will no longer engage with you since you know you’re a mod.


*Moderator warning:-*


Ignoring a moderator is not an option.

I have treated you with consideration.

As per your request you will now be banned.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Yes. She has a key.


Give her the washing machine along with the rest of her stuff. She can wash at home. If she says she can't take it now tell her you will help her. She says no just take it over and leave it at the front door. 

See a lawyer about changing the locks asap. Her new bf might access her keys to let himself in.

She insists on doing laundry inside just cut the cord by the plug. Replace the plug after she leaves. Hide the tools. Hide the soap. 

She needs to know and understand the house she abandoned is not a revolving door on her schedule and her whim.


----------



## Nickel Speed

faithfulman said:


> @Nickelspeed - now is your chance to stand up to her and for yourself.
> 
> Start turning this around tonight. Do it.
> 
> And watch how dramatically your interactions with her change.
> 
> Come back here and tell us how all of a sudden how things changed with her behavior.
> 
> And notice how your interactions with this community change!
> 
> WE DO SUPPORT YOU!
> 
> You can do it brother!



I didn't cry or beg or talk about us. Went about my business and we chatted. I acted indifferent. She did a load of my laundry with hers and left. Says she's coming back to do the rest tomorrow. I was thinking about just not being here, but then I'm afraid of what could happen to my gun collection and stuff.

Was kind of a **** when she asked me to pick up our daughters drink when she had her hands full. "I said, you can do it.. welcome to being a single parent."

I of course got it for her. Told daughter to have fun and told stbxw good luck.

I know it's not what you wanted, but I'm not sad right now. I'm sure that'll come in a few hours.


----------



## Nickel Speed

faithfulman said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She's also coming for our child.
> 
> 
> 
> Then hand off the child and tell her to do her laundry somewhere else.
> 
> Nickel, I get the feeling you just want to see your wife, no matter the circumstances.
> 
> Maybe you need to see her as she is when she is cheating to get over that.
> 
> I hope not.
> 
> Also, she has a key? You need to remedy that, unless you have the key to her place.
> 
> Start taking action! Just like your body building, this is a muscle you need to build, and the first few times you will feel weak and be sore as hell afterwards.
> 
> But persevere! Don't give up!
Click to expand...


Legally, still her key.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> I didn't cry or beg or talk about us. Went about my business and we chatted. I acted indifferent. She did a load of my laundry with hers and left. Says she's coming back to do the rest tomorrow. I was thinking about just not being here, but then I'm afraid of what could happen to my gun collection and stuff.
> 
> Was kind of a **** when she asked me to pick up our daughters drink when she had her hands full. "I said, you can do it.. welcome to being a single parent."
> 
> I of course got it for her. Told daughter to have fun and told stbxw good luck.
> 
> I know it's not what you wanted, but I'm not sad right now. I'm sure that'll come in a few hours.


Good work. Baby steps.

Please don't let her do you any favors like doing your laundry. 

Look into what steps you need to take to keep her out of your space. 

Limit your interactions with her, and show no interest in her goings on. 

You'll move on, and you will have left her behind. 

Do it and you will be it.


----------



## Marc878

Not great but it's a start. You need to cut out any unneeded engagement. Civil but distant.

Use the time tonight to box up all her stuff. It'll keep you busy and send a good message.

Do your own laundry tonight and clean up the house really well.

Bud, when she leaves you are not obligated to say anything. Get out of the habit of wishing her well or good luck.


----------



## Marc878

Read up. It's short and will help you

https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy


----------



## manfromlamancha

Nickel Speed said:


> What is your end game?


Not sure I understand this question or even who it was aimed at but here goes.

The end game is to preserve your well being. She is inflicting pain on you by keeping you in her "friend zone" while ****ing another man! This appears to make you feel good but this is where I mentioned the analogy of being hooked on a drug that is bad for you. Eventually it will mess with your mind and destroy you - destroy your self confidence and ability to let go of her. At the same time it will feed her ego and assuage her guilt so double whammy.

By blocking her and making this separation (and cheating) very real in terms of consequences you will help yourself and also her in making her understand the impact of what she has done.

If she has moved out of the house you are completely entitled to change the keys. Yes she can come and go as long as you are married (and I would advise you to file asap to rectify this), she needs to let you know when she is coming or else let you have a key to the other marital property also known as her apartment where you too can come and go as you please.

She certainly should be encouraged to do her laundry elsewhere and you should not confuse this with her seeing her child. The two are separate. 

As others have said you do not appear ready to do this and I guess baby steps are still good but you need to get there fast.


----------



## [email protected]

Nickel, I haven't kept up with your posts. Have you consulted an attorney? If not, get one right away. And pay attention to Marc878's suggestion.


----------



## Chuck71

Change the locks.....she can walk in when you are not there and take several of your guns. It's

not theft because....legally she still resides there. You can make it to where she can only come in

if you are there or the police are there. Do you have a friend who could be there when she comes?

Until you child swap at a neutral site, she will use your place for an eatery, laundromat, rest area,

day care, etc. You're probably going to get to see your child more..... WW doesn't want her 

around while she is engaging OM. If she is "so happy" and "footloose and fancy free" now is the

time to push the D. She just may go along with most of what you are asking. Also have an understanding....

OM is NOT to be around your daughter. He is NOT to baby sit here, give her baths, etc.

You're seeing the ooey gooey actions of the affair. Once you set your boundaries and stop being her

doormat..... then you will see her angry, manipulative side. Firm boundaries will shut that down

immediately. Then she can go anger dump on OM. I understand you will always love who she WAS.

But that woman....is dead. Who she is now, is a stranger to you. I will always love who my XW WAS.....

hell I M her. But who she was in the end and still is today, is a stranger. I do not know her.

The more you are near her, the closer you are to the Dark Side (Star Wars). Break free Padawan.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Legally, still her key.


You actually don't know if she legally can keep a key. You think you do but have you actually consulted a lawyer on this? You have not.

I don't know CO law but given that she has moved out to a new residence months ago married or not at some point there is abandonment of the home. A lawyer knows under what circumstances *your* right to have a safe, secure home trumps her right to come and go as she pleases as she has effectively abandoned the marital home. 

Also, you have the legal right to know who has a key to your house and can enter at any time. If there is a key floating around that you have no control over at some point prudence dictates you change the locks.

Example- Her boyfriend taking the key and stealing from you. 

Your other update: "I was thinking about just not being here, but then I'm afraid of what could happen to my gun collection and stuff."

If I may remind you myself and others advised you to move your things so you can leave your house in peace. I understand if there is no one you trust locally but again if you had gone for a free legal consultation all week an attorney would have advised you on changing the locks. 

So here you are home. Maybe you give yourself the excuse you need to be home because she might take your stuff. 

But I think you are just waiting for her to come over and say she is sorry and wants to move back in. Or you are martyring yourself - she can feel your pain and know she has done you wrong. 

Number one is not happening, she is not coming back, The die is cast, She told you so. Listen to her. Sorry. 

Number two - She does not care about your feelings, your pain. She has proven this. Not one iota. While you suffer she is off laughing and happy. She simply does not care. Sorry

Anyway, good job on working on minimal engagement. We all know it is hard.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> Read up. It's short and will help you
> 
> https://archive.org/details/RobertGloverNoMoreMrNiceGuy



Started to read this. None of those examples sound like me.


----------



## sokillme

Nickel Speed said:


> Started to read this. None of those examples sound like me.


I'm curios why you are here? You seem to just argue with any advice we give you, sounds like you got this. If you see this as just a journal or blog, certainly there are better places for that.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I didn't think it applied? You don't have to read my blog.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> Started to read this. None of those examples sound like me.


Good. Then you are ahead of most at this time. Work on your 180 no contact


----------



## MattMatt

sokillme said:


> I'm curios why you are here? You seem to just argue with any advice we give you, sounds like you got this. If you see this as just a journal or blog, certainly there are better places for that.


Nobody has to take our advice.

And your comment was edging close to trying to advice him not to post on TAM. Please don't do that.


----------



## wilson

I think the thing about the Nice Guy blog was because you have been accommodating to her. A Nice Guy thinks that by being super nice, he'll get what he wants. But the reality is that he gets taken advantage of. So if his wife moves out and has an affair, he'll try win her back by doing nice things like helping her move into an apartment, take her car for service, etc. But that doesn't work because she ends up losing respect for him.

Maybe you're not a Nice Guy, but a Nice Guy would do things to make it easy on her like letting her do laundry at the house. Every time you have contact with her, imagine she just got done having sex with that loser. That'll help put you in the right frame of mind for how to deal with her.


----------



## honcho

Nickel Speed said:


> Legally, still her key.


No one's ever gone to jail for changing the locks. Sooner or later you'll start to see things dissappear from the house. You should find a place to store your valuable items otherwise you'll only blame yourself when they are gone. My crazy ex would clean out entire rooms while I was at work.


----------



## [email protected]

OHhhh! I hope I'm wrong, but I think Nickel is a train wreck.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She came by and finished laundry and got more stuff. Also bought me food, which is good since it's all I've ate. Played with daughter for a bit and they left. Just binged TV all this day. Didn't cry beg or reason.


----------



## Nickel Speed

honcho said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Legally, still her key.
> 
> 
> 
> No one's ever gone to jail for changing the locks. Sooner or later you'll start to see things dissappear from the house. You should find a place to store your valuable items otherwise you'll only blame yourself when they are gone. My crazy ex would clean out entire rooms while I was at work.
Click to expand...

Valuables in garage. Only guns in home. She knows better than to touch I would hope. All marked and recorded.


----------



## honcho

Nickel Speed said:


> Valuables in garage. Only guns in home. She knows better than to touch I would hope. All marked and recorded.


It sounds cynical but don't "hope". Plan for the worst, it's better than being disappointed when stuff is gone. I came home one day and the entire living room was emptied out including the carpet. Ive got some valuable guns and rare oddballs that couldn't easily be replaced. First thing I did when she moved out with those and my cycles was get those to a safe location.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> She came by and finished laundry and got more stuff. Also bought me food, which is good since it's all I've ate. Played with daughter for a bit and they left. Just binged TV all this day. Didn't cry beg or reason.


 I think it is positive that you did not cry, beg or reason. 

But I am going to be blunt, harshly blunt. 

If I were in your shoes, if she were my wayward wife, considering where her hands have been I would not let her touch my cloths, nor feed me. 

I'd rather starve. 

And I would tell her so. 

Symbolic I know but it would a matter of my pride, my dignity. 

Wash my own cloths and make my own meals thank you.


----------



## MattMatt

honcho said:


> No one's ever gone to jail for changing the locks. Sooner or later you'll start to see things dissappear from the house. You should find a place to store your valuable items otherwise you'll only blame yourself when they are gone. My crazy ex would clean out entire rooms while I was at work.


It's awkward when someone loses their keys.

They have to have new locks fitted to their doors.

Of course, should the runaway spouse want to come back permanently, I'm sure new keys could be provided to them at that point. But not until.


----------



## Nickel Speed

If I lost my keys, she could easily just make me a copy.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> If I lost my keys, she could easily just make me a copy.


Just change the locks. Make her ask for a key. She may not.


----------



## Marc878

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> I think it is positive that you did not cry, beg or reason.
> 
> But I am going to be blunt, harshly blunt.
> 
> If I were in your shoes, if she were my wayward wife, considering where her hands have been I would not let her touch my cloths, nor feed me.
> 
> I'd rather starve.
> 
> And I would tell her so.
> 
> Symbolic I know but it would a matter of my pride, my dignity.
> 
> Wash my own cloths and make my own meals thank you.


This is correct. You are passively taking whatever she gives you. 

It just makes you look weak and will enable her to walk all over you.

Wake up. You are not helpless here.


----------



## Marc878

Your actions (laying around watching tv or playing video games) are telling your wife she made the right decision in leaving.

I get you're in shock and pretty devastated but right now doing nothing gets you nothing.

Clean up the place, pack up all her ****, go out somewhere, anywhere. There is plenty you could be doing.


----------



## MattMatt

Nickel Speed said:


> If I lost my keys, she could easily just make me a copy.


No. Because your lost key could fall into the hands of a criminal who coukd then easily enter your home and take whst they wanted.

You would need new locks fitted.


----------



## Nickel Speed

If I asked for the key back, she'd give it to me. I also asked her to bring me the food on her way here.

She's letting me have our daughter tomorrow, on her day so I can take her to see some of my family. Things seem to be going OK right now.

I plan to file Tuesday unless the lawyer (ex college roommate) happens to be open on Presidents' day. That way I got it all in writing and set while she is acting civil.


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> If I asked for the key back, she'd give it to me.
> 
> Do it and get her stuff boxed up tonight
> 
> I also asked her to bring me the food on her way here.
> 
> You don't need her so stop. You are capable of living your own life. That's what you should be showing her.
> 
> She's letting me have our daughter tomorrow, on her day so I can take her to see some of my family. Things seem to be going OK right now.
> 
> I plan to file Tuesday unless the lawyer (ex college roommate) happens to be open on Presidents' day. That way I got it all in writing and set while she is acting civil.


They are not ok because you are not standing up and saying with your actions I'm not being a partner to your affair. 

Divorce maybe your best bet but if there is a marriage that can be saved you must be willing to end it. You are dragging your feet. Stop!!!!

Look your best, smell your best, etc. get your home in spotless condition. That's says I'm fine without you. It has an impact as well as the 180.

You still are not getting it man. Cmon!!!!!


----------



## Nickel Speed

If I'm supposed to kick her out of the home permanently, then why get it spotless. She won't see it.

Figured everyone here would be pleased I'm putting the divorce in motion.

Also, ever see a spotless home with a toddler? Lol


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> If I'm supposed to kick her out of the home permanently, then why get it spotless. She won't see it.
> 
> Figured everyone here would be pleased I'm putting the divorce in motion.
> 
> Also, ever see a spotless home with a toddler? Lol


When she comes to get the last of her stuff You box up she will. 

It's up to you. You'll figure it out or you won't.


----------



## manfromlamancha

I, like another poster here, get the impression that you have a "counter argument" for every piece of advice given to you. Why is this ? Do you really not understand or get the advice being given ? Or do you think everyone is wrong in the advice they are giving ?

I like the comment from a previous poster that said something like "eventually you will either get it or you won't". I do believe this. I also feel that you are missing the point of some of the posts here.

She did something wrong! Bad! Even if your relationship was sh!tty. She continues to flaunt it in your face. I get it that you still have feelings for her but to want to play happy families with her is harmful to you in the not-so-long run. It also is showing her that you support her cheating. 

To put it graphically she has sex with another man - a man you don't even know - (I could get a lot more graphic here but that would be cruel and hurtful) and then comes and prepares food for you and does your laundry and you seem to be OK with that ?!?!?!?

And somewhere along the line, you seem to think that she is doing you favours somehow?!?!? That you need to keep her appeased because of this. You need to get out of that mindset. She probably thinks "I was right to get out of this and find a better man because all he wants to do is sit around playing video while relying on me to do his laundry and feed him - he is weak".

You need to fake it till you make it. So I get that you want to play games and not clean the house etc but you need to at least act like you are getting on with your life and that you will still be a great dad while not dependent on her in any way.

And I cannot see where she has faced any consequences for her ****!ng around. None! In fact, to some degree, you have kind of rewarded her. This is not good for your healing or her becoming a better person hopefully.

Eventually, if people feel that you are criticising the advice with no real reason to or experience to base it on, they will eventually stop posting.


----------



## faithfulman

Hey, Nickel, since what you're doing is definitely not working, why not try the advice you're getting from people who predicted this situation before you did?

Maybe stop analyzing why it won't work and try it out.


----------



## Nickel Speed

It's not as though the house is a wreck. I'm vacuumed and done dishes. Took down her photos. Changed out out old bedding. Small things. I just wanted a weekend to chill out.

She said she was on the way, so I said if she'd grab taco bell for us, I'd pay. Didn't know I committed a sin there. Won't do it again. I was just hungry and didn't feel like cooking. Town is 20 minutes away and she was already there. Seemed harmless.

I guess I can box and bag up her stuff and help her out some more, though I keep being told not to help her out.

Her mom is dropping off my child tomorrow. Debating on telling her about the affair. She doesn't know that part yet, only that her daughter left.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Why are you debating on that ? I would tell her and all of her family & friends too.


----------



## jlg07

Nickel Speed said:


> It's not as though the house is a wreck. I'm vacuumed and done dishes. Took down her photos. Changed out out old bedding. Small things. I just wanted a weekend to chill out.
> This is all good!! We aren't telling you to clean the house for HER!! We are saying to clean all of HER STUFF out of your house.
> 
> She said she was on the way, so I said if she'd grab taco bell for us, I'd pay. Didn't know I committed a sin there. Won't do it again. I was just hungry and didn't feel like cooking. Town is 20 minutes away and she was already there. Seemed harmless.The problem is you are still showing her that you want/need her. At this point, she is banging someone else. WHY do you want her for ANYTHING?
> You need to get YOUR **** together and NOT have her involved. You need to get your plans together for the divorce where you will NOT have her with you to do this stuff. Become self-reliant.
> 
> I guess I can box and bag up her stuff and help her out some more, though I keep being told not to help her out.You are not helping her out -- you are helping YOU out. You need to detach and do the 180. That means minimal contact/discussions with her. Her coming over to "get stuff" or "do laundry" or ANYTHING else that doesn't involve your child or your divorce is NOT GOOD FOR YOU
> 
> Her mom is dropping off my child tomorrow. Debating on telling her about the affair. She doesn't know that part yet, only that her daughter left.


You ABSOLUTELY need to expose her affair. You realize that she is covering it up so that people don't think badly of her. She will re-write your marriage history to make it like YOU are the bad guy. YOU are awful to live with. "all he does is sit around and play video games. He doesn't help/want/... with me at all...... That's why I have to leave him -- he is abusive". 
Exposing this will shed the light. You should also find out if her POSOM is married/gf. If so, EXPOSE IT TO THEM also. Tell your friends, tell your family.... what are you waiting for? You want to make sure you get the narrative under control and not let HER control it.


----------



## Marc878

Exposure is your only weapon to try and end her affair. Affairs thrive in the secret and the dark.

It may work it may not work but the only thing you should not be doing right now is nothing.

It would help if you could find out who it is.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Double quote


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> It's not as though the house is a wreck. I'm vacuumed and done dishes. Took down her photos. Changed out out old bedding. Small things. I just wanted a weekend to chill out.
> 
> She said she was on the way, so I said if she'd grab taco bell for us, I'd pay. Didn't know I committed a sin there. Won't do it again. I was just hungry and didn't feel like cooking. Town is 20 minutes away and she was already there. Seemed harmless.
> 
> I guess I can box and bag up her stuff and help her out some more, t*hough I keep being told not to help her out.*
> 
> Her mom is dropping off my child tomorrow. Debating on telling her about the affair. She doesn't know that part yet, only that her daughter left.


You do not need your wife's permission to pack her crap. Did she 'ask for you permission to lie, lead you on, blow up the marriage and now have your daughter grow up in a broken home'? 

Of course not. She did what she wanted walking all over you and your feelings. Like your were something she stepped on and had to scrape off. 

So pack all of her crap and leave it by the door. Plus the keys. 

Seriously. 

As for her mom yes, tell her, "Your daughter lied to my face for months sleeping with some POS behind my back. I was such a fool to believe her, to trust my best friend in the world, my wife. On top of that now she is telling everyone I was an a-hole to her and that she deserves better, like we ever had a chance while she was sneaking off in the bushes with some home wrecker. Now our daughter gets to grow up in a broken home, but hey, meanwhile cheating Mommy is all happy and giddy".


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy

I would like to stress that wandering partners/spouses like to rewrite the history of their relationships for others. It is a defense mechanism that assists in justifying their cheating.

Just remember, she’ll take one more stab at this marriage. But just remember this quote; 

“A woman splits and goes silent for months and then mysteriously wants to reunite? Her primary choice of orgasm donor found a better charity.”


----------



## She'sStillGotIt

Marc878 said:


> Exposure is your only weapon to try and end her affair. Affairs thrive in the secret and the dark.
> 
> It may work it may not work but the only thing you should not be doing right now is nothing.
> 
> It would help if you could find out who it is.


Are you suggesting that he find a way to blow the affair up so he can "win" this prize back by default if her boyfriend bounces on her after their affair is exposed??? Would you want a woman to come back to you - the consolation prize - because *you* had to stop her affair FOR her by blowing it out of the water? Who the hell wants a person they literally had to FORCE away from someone else? I'd rather be alone.

OP, take a real good look at the hideous and horrifying way she's *disrespected* you *in every single way she could* over the last year - to the point of moving out of your marital home - and then decide whether you want to try to force her to come back to you ONLY because she has *no other options*.


----------



## BigbadBootyDaddy

I have to add one more thing. I read the whole thread, OP not once have you thanked the great people on this thread. You fight’em tooth and nail on every bit of advice. 

They’ve given you a blueprint to how to deal with this, yet you still come off as angry at the crowd here. 

You ever walk on your first day at work and tell your boss “I got this, I know better”?

Your next post should be the following;
“I’m ready to absorb, give me everything you got”.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Broke news to her mother.
Now time to see when this will come back to blow up in my face.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> Broke news to her mother.
> Now time to see when this will come back to blow up in my face.


Jees Nickel, you got it backwards, again.

What could possibly be blowing up in your face? You already have had everything shoved in your face. 

This is now blowing up in HER Face!


----------



## Nickel Speed

faithfulman said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> Broke news to her mother.
> Now time to see when this will come back to blow up in my face.
> 
> 
> 
> Jees Nickel, you got it backwards, again.
> 
> What could possibly be blowing up in your face? You already have had everything shoved in your face.
> 
> This is now blowing up in HER Face!
Click to expand...

A civil cheap divorce turning into a pissed off wife fighting me for everything including custody and me now with no leverage of blowing up her affair now?


----------



## Chuck71

Let her be pissed..... she's the one who started this. She wants someone to blame...... there's the mirror

sweet thang. You let her know you will not sit idly by while she goes around town bouncing on bedposts.

Yeah....she will be mad you exposed and filed for D.....but she will also respect you for not putting up

with her BS. When she tries to go off on you for blowing up her pretty plan..... just reply

"I want 50 / 50 custody, no child support. We can do this easy or.....I will file on grounds of adultery

which....you admitted to. Your choice, you have 24 hours or I will make the decision for you."

YOU were walked on, lied to, cheated on.....now YOU are growing your balls back. I know you don't

realize it now.... but by doing this, puts you in the driver's seat.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Grounds of adultery is no different here. At all


----------



## Marc878

Nickel Speed said:


> Broke news to her mother.
> Now time to see when this will come back to blow up in my face.


Of course she'll be pissed off. You just destroyed her fantasy life. You can't rational with a cheater. Don't waste your time trying. 

It's not your job to help hide her affair. 

No contact is your best path. Any response should be "sorry you feel that way" then "gotta go" and leave or shut the door.


----------



## Marc878

No matter what anyone suggests you always come back with a negative response.

Why are you here?


----------



## Chuck71

I have an old saying my pop used to say when he was alive

"Remind me to give a FXXk"

I am fully aware adultery is rarely ever used anymore.....but you can say you will file under that.

She doesn't know if you will or won't. Today people use adultery for public embarrassment. Sadly

today, adultery is accepted. Nickel.....anything you can do to destroy her "dreamworld" you do.

Why....she has destroyed your world. You're not H and W anymore...you are not best friends,

this is a D and a D is war. Gloves are off....


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> No matter what anyone suggests you always come back with a negative response.
> 
> Why are you here?


I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one. 

Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> Grounds of adultery is no different here. At all


So why would your STBXW being pissed off at you make any difference? 

How about a pissed off husband? You have agency Nickel. Use it. Own it. 

Stop thinking like a doormat bro.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one.
> 
> Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.


What do you think would make this less painful for you Nickel?


----------



## honcho

Nickel Speed said:


> A civil cheap divorce turning into a pissed off wife fighting me for everything including custody and me now with no leverage of blowing up her affair now?


She's already had plenty of time to lay the groundwork to her mom about how uncaring/bad hubby you've been so don't put much stock into mom's reactions or what she may or may not say. She's gonna side with her daughter. You keep thinking the way you've done this will make for a easy civil divorce and that's a fantasy. 

You file, your the bad guy and she's worked so hard to save the marriage or the similar storyline of nonsense that they always tell. You wait this out she eventually files and it's because you'll never change and your uncaring yada yada yada. Anyway you try to play the game she's gonna get pissed off....get over it and do it. You've only delayed the potential battle, you've only allowed her to feel more a sense of entitlement taking all this time to do anything.


----------



## Marc878

There is no easy way out. Can exposure work. Maybe, maybe not. 

You can stay on the couch, watch tv, play video games. How was that working for you?

Keeping your self respect is important IMO. 

We all get to choose out own way.

Exposure is for the most part the best way to break an affair. Nothing's ever guaranteed.

If you just want a divorce then say nothing and get it done.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> There is no easy way out. Can exposure work. Maybe, maybe not.
> 
> You can stay on the couch, watch tv, play video games. How was that working for you?
> 
> Keeping your self respect is important IMO.
> 
> We all get to choose out own way.
> 
> Exposure is for the most part the best way to break an affair. Nothing's ever guaranteed.
> 
> If you just want a divorce then say nothing and get it done.



Considering it's the weekend, I've felt pretty good about staying on the couch and playing games for once. Chatting with old military friends, catching up, etc.

Why is everyone acting like this is all I have done?


----------



## Nickel Speed

I plan to call my lawyer tomorrow if he's open, or Tuesday if he's not.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Nickel Speed said:


> A civil cheap divorce turning into a pissed off wife fighting me for everything including custody and me now with no leverage of blowing up her affair now?


 It was never going to be easy. When the time came she was going to stick you for everything she can.

Back to your guns. You should have a safe, especially with a toddler in the house. Kill two birds with one stone. Plus it will likely drive her nuts wondering what else you have in there.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Rubix Cubed said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> A civil cheap divorce turning into a pissed off wife fighting me for everything including custody and me now with no leverage of blowing up her affair now?
> 
> 
> 
> It was never going to be easy. When the time came she was going to stick you for everything she can.
> 
> Back to your guns. You should have a safe, especially with a toddler in the house. Kill two birds with one stone. Plus it will likely drive her nuts wondering what else you have in there.
Click to expand...

I have 2 safes, both full and overflowing. Only room for guns.

A couple of the blackpowder antiques that a toddler can't shoot and bows are not in safe. That being said, safe's are moveable if someone is determined. Not that heavy. Did not bolt down because planning to upgrade to bigher single safe.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Anything that involves large amounts of cash is not happening now. I will likely have to sell my motorcycle to pay for an upcoming surgery.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Nickel Speed said:


> I have 2 safes, both full and overflowing. Only room for guns.
> 
> A couple of the blackpowder antiques that a toddler can't shoot and bows are not in safe. That being said, safe's are moveable if someone is determined. Not that heavy. Did not bolt down because planning to upgrade to bigher single safe.


 Good to hear. I have the same space problem.
There is no such thing as a big enough safe, is it? It's like closets for women.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Rubix Cubed said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have 2 safes, both full and overflowing. Only room for guns.
> 
> A couple of the blackpowder antiques that a toddler can't shoot and bows are not in safe. That being said, safe's are moveable if someone is determined. Not that heavy. Did not bolt down because planning to upgrade to bigher single safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Good to hear. I have the same space problem.
> There is no such thing as a big enough safe, is it? It's like closets for women.
Click to expand...

Hopefully next safe will be enough. I don't plan any more thundersticks. Well. One more. Then I am done.


----------



## Marc878

Id keep the keys on me at all times. You just never know in these cases what can happen


----------



## Marc878

What did her mom have to say? Did she know?


----------



## Nickel Speed

Marc878 said:


> What did her mom have to say? Did she know?


She asked if I knew who it was. I don't. Then she said that she is so sorry and that this sucks. Said she was sorry she ruined her daughter.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> A civil cheap divorce turning into a pissed off wife fighting me for everything including custody and me now with no leverage of blowing up her affair now?


pride


----------



## Lostinthought61

Nickel Speed said:


> She asked if I knew who it was. I don't. Then she said that she is so sorry and that this sucks. Said she was sorry she ruined her daughter.


she is sad that ruined your daughter...how about you? what a selfish person she is...and you should find out who this loser is because if he is married or with someone they should know...and if they work together...then HR should know..(that is potential leverage)


----------



## Nickel Speed

Lostinthought61 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She asked if I knew who it was. I don't. Then she said that she is so sorry and that this sucks. Said she was sorry she ruined her daughter.
> 
> 
> 
> she is sad that ruined your daughter...how about you? what a selfish person she is...and you should find out who this loser is because if he is married or with someone they should know...and if they work together...then HR should know..(that is potential leverage)
Click to expand...


Not my daughter. My wife. My wife's mother is sorry she ruined my wife.

Don't you think I'd like to know who I was left for? Point is, I don't think it matters at this point and it's not worth the effort. Trying to move on.


----------



## honcho

Nickel Speed said:


> Hopefully next safe will be enough. I don't plan any more thundersticks. Well. One more. Then I am done.


Yeah, I've lied to myself about one more than done too......:grin2:


----------



## jlg07

Nickel Speed said:


> Grounds of adultery is no different here. At all


You do realize that she was NEVER going to make it easy for you in a D? You calling her on her **** pissed her off now, but She was NEVER going to take it easy on you. She has NO respect for you, is flauting her affair in your face, and has been telling everyone the reason you are split is because YOU are a crappy husband. NOT the fact that she is banging another guy.

You really need to wake up a bit and REALLY MEAN that you will divorce her and get your plan together.
SHE can't force anything for custody or anything else -- your lawyers need to take care of that (so get the best plan together you can). One thing -- she CAN be vindictive and try to get you for spousal abuse. Make sure you have a VAR (voice activated recorder) on you at ALL times you interact with her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

We are filing together. She agreed to the terms. I'm getting out cheap and quick. I'll let you know if it doesn't work.


----------



## Marc878

Probably your best bet. Infidelity is the gift that keeps on giving.

Hard 180. It'll get you where you need to be.

Like most she'll try the "lets be friends" thing. That's all for her not you.

Good luck


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> Not my daughter. My wife. My wife's mother is sorry she ruined my wife.
> 
> Don't you think I'd like to know who I was left for? Point is, I don't think it matters at this point and it's not worth the effort. Trying to move on.


You might want to find out who your daughter is going to be spending half her time with. 

Considering he helped break up your family you may want your attorney to argue that he stay away from your daughter until you are formally divorced. 

Some might consider that petty and pointless. Personally I don't.


----------



## Chuck71

Nickel Speed said:


> Not my daughter. My wife. *My wife's mother is sorry she ruined my wife.*
> 
> Don't you think I'd like to know who I was left for? Point is, I don't think it matters at this point and it's not worth the effort. Trying to move on.


Damaged people....... damage people


----------



## Nickel Speed

I feel awful again. I miss her.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Nickel Speed said:


> I feel awful again. I miss her.


I know it sucks but you miss the person she was not the person she is


----------



## MattMatt

Nickel Speed said:


> I feel awful again. I miss her.


Yes, that's only natural.

However, you are missing a chimera, an echo of something that might really never have been.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one.
> 
> Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.


Just WOW! :surprise:

You sure a hell did not do as you were asked. You did things your way and now that you see the possible repercussions of growing a pair, you freak out. I don't see you throwing divorce papers on her face yet. You have not even seen a lawyer to draw papers yet. What you did was try to get her mom to convince her you are the good guy. That will not work because blood is thicker than water dude! 

Your mother in law will eventually side with her daughter. No ifs about that one! You were over the moon when she scolded her kid for leaving you, but that won't matter when daughter states she loves OM and wants out of this marriage regardless of the reasons. She is done with you! It will not end well or amicable. It was never going to be that way. Let that sink in.

You will have to fight every inch regarding getting 50/50 custody, that is why you must file first. Most of us told you to file first for a darn good reason. Most cheaters will be hateful when things don't go according to their plans. You were not going to get 50/50 custody no matter how many times she stated this if you don't get it in writing and you surely didn't. The only one that needs the total truth and with proof is your daughter for when she grows up and your then X will have planted venom against you in your kid's heart. That is what cheaters do; they blame their BS for all the misery coming their way. It is classic cheater tactics and defense mechanisms as well.

You were going the cheap route all along. No counseling, no rocking the boat, no lawyers because it was expensive. Well, you must spend to keep as much of the time with your daughter as you possibly can and that can only give you a fair fight by paying a darn good lawyer! 

Your WS will simply insert OM in your child's life. Of that have no doubt. Accept that your WS will expose your child to other man/men. It is what happens when one spouse wants out of a marriage. Others get introduced into the mix and one point or another.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one.
> 
> Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.





Nickel Speed said:


> I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one.
> 
> Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.


I will be the voice of dissent on this board. I usually keep my mouth shut once the thread goes into cheating. I think you are right. A good many posters here are former BSes or people who imagine that situation with little reality. The advice seems to me often laced with bitterness from their own situation. While many situations are similar, there is a perception that with cheating there really is one scripts -- that of the evil wayward. I, personally, don't agree. I even wonder how many people increasing the drama and pain with the advice on this board. So I will share my PoV.

You came here thinking about how you could change you, recognizing that you had done things that made a strong rift in your marriage. I felt like I was reading another walkway wife post from the PoV of the husband. No one blames a walkaway wife who manages to walk away without meeting someone first. But I am sympathetic to people for whom that does not happen (maybe like your wife). 

I have not watched every piece of advice. But this board is for advice, but does not require you take it. Read. But YOU decide. Getting an easy divorce sounds like a damned good goal to me. Letting your STBX go smoothly sounds like a good idea to me. 

From my perspective, not letting her do her laundry, for example, is petty. If you cared about how it looks, which you don't seem to (GOOD ON YOU) it actually just makes you look petty and broken. 

It does not sound to me like your wife wants to wreck you. She has just moved on. It HURTS LIKE HELL. YOu still feel for her. That's gotta suck. And I have ALL KINDS of sympathy for you. 

But I want to encourage to continue to take all advice (especially mine ) with the grain of salt you are. Keep up the good work.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Someone who seems to get it. Thanks.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel, I think you're getting a bit of a bad rap here. So far:

1. You're talking to a lawyer tomorrow;
2. You've taken down a bunch of her stuff; and
3. You've told her mom what really happened.

Those are all the right moves, and hopefully you'll be able to push this divorce through quickly and favorably for you while your STBXW is in the fog of her affair.

I've got a couple of young kids myself, and I think those telling you to make the house spotless are nuts. And I would also disregard those folks who are telling you to enjoy yourself and then giving you grief for playing video games this weekend.

Where it seems you're having a harder time is finding the right balance with the 180. You aren't going to start the healing process as long as you're having the level and kind of contact that you're having with her right now. Regardless of how cool you may think you're playing it when she comes over, each time she does rips that raw wound open again and sets you back in the healing process. I would do whatever it takes to expedite getting all of her stuff out of your house, and as soon as that happens, I would change the locks for security reasons and set ground rules for sharing custody. Then, disengage except for handing off your daughter. Have you blocked her on FB and social media? 

I'm sorry to hear about your health issues and hope it's not too serious. Are you still able to work out?


----------



## [email protected]

Nickel, you are doing as well as could be expected. I was worried about you for a while.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> I did what was asked. I was stating the potential consequences. I could be going from an easy divorce to a very difficult one.
> 
> Not that anyone cares as long as they get to see a cheater hung out to dry. It seems that is the primary intent of many here. Not helping me through this as painless as possible.
> 
> 
> 
> Just WOW! <a href="http://talkaboutmarriage.com/images/TAMarriage_2015/smilies/tango_face_surprise.png" border="0" alt="" title="EEK! Surprise!" ></a>
> 
> You sure a hell did not do as you were asked. You did things your way and now that you see the possible repercussions of growing a pair, you freak out. I don't see you throwing divorce papers on her face yet. You have not even seen a lawyer to draw papers yet. What you did was try to get her mom to convince her you are the good guy. That will not work because blood is thicker than water dude!
> 
> Your mother in law will eventually side with her daughter. No ifs about that one! You were over the moon when she scolded her kid for leaving you, but that won't matter when daughter states she loves OM and wants out of this marriage regardless of the reasons. She is done with you! It will not end well or amicable. It was never going to be that way. Let that sink in.
> 
> You will have to fight every inch regarding getting 50/50 custody, that is why you must file first. Most of us told you to file first for a darn good reason. Most cheaters will be hateful when things don't go according to their plans. You were not going to get 50/50 custody no matter how many times she stated this if you don't get it in writing and you surely didn't. The only one that needs the total truth and with proof is your daughter for when she grows up and your then X will have planted venom against you in your kid's heart. That is what cheaters do; they blame their BS for all the misery coming their way. It is classic cheater tactics and defense mechanisms as well.
> 
> You were going the cheap route all along. No counseling, no rocking the boat, no lawyers because it was expensive. Well, you must spend to keep as much of the time with your daughter as you possibly can and that can only give you a fair fight by paying a darn good lawyer!
> 
> Your WS will simply insert OM in your child's life. Of that have no doubt. Accept that your WS will expose your child to other man/men. It is what happens when one spouse wants out of a marriage. Others get introduced into the mix and one point or another.
Click to expand...


There's no reason I won't get 50/50 custody. She won't dare fight me on that front or I would make her life hell. Not every marriage ends in a blown up fashion with years in court.

I have no doubts that my daughter will meet OM. Never said anything about that. You really are all over the place with this comment.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Satisfied Mind said:


> Nickel, I think you're getting a bit of a bad rap here. So far:
> 
> 1. You're talking to a lawyer tomorrow;
> 2. You've taken down a bunch of her stuff; and
> 3. You've told her mom what really happened.
> 
> Those are all the right moves, and hopefully you'll be able to push this divorce through quickly and favorably for you while your STBXW is in the fog of her affair.
> 
> I've got a couple of young kids myself, and I think those telling you to make the house spotless are nuts. And I would also disregard those folks who are telling you to enjoy yourself and then giving you grief for playing video games this weekend.
> 
> Where it seems you're having a harder time is finding the right balance with the 180. You aren't going to start the healing process as long as you're having the level and kind of contact that you're having with her right now. Regardless of how cool you may think you're playing it when she comes over, each time she does rips that raw wound open again and sets you back in the healing process. I would do whatever it takes to expedite getting all of her stuff out of your house, and as soon as that happens, I would change the locks for security reasons and set ground rules for sharing custody. Then, disengage except for handing off your daughter. Have you blocked her on FB and social media?
> 
> I'm sorry to hear about your health issues and hope it's not too serious. Are you still able to work out?


Thanks. I'm cleaning things up slowly. It is actually much easier to keep clean with wife not here now. 

I've not blocked her on FB. She posts pics of daughter and stuff and tags me. I think I just need to get used to it, like anything.

I can still lift, but won't be doing much running. Basically broke a bone in my foot, been living with it for 8 months now. Will require surgery to fix and a special boot for months.


----------



## Nickel Speed

[email protected] said:


> Nickel, you are doing as well as could be expected. I was worried about you for a while.


The feelings hit me less often now. The home sure is quiet. Memories are still everywhere. I hate the silence.

I have family, but am close with none of them.

One problem I am having is I have a short temper with everyone who keeps trying to talk to me about what is going on or aggravating me in general. I'm not yelling or anything, but I simply don't want to talk about it. I'm sure the look of aggravation and frustration is showing however . I wish people would stop treating me this way. I know it makes no sense because they are trying to care, but it makes me angry. I don't like being treated so different.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> There's no reason I won't get 50/50 custody. She won't dare fight me on that front or I would make her life hell. Not every marriage ends in a blown up fashion with years in court.
> 
> I have no doubts that my daughter will meet OM. Never said anything about that. You really are all over the place with this comment.


50/50 custody is not standard procedure in the USA. You can't be shuffling children around back and forth between households forever. Especially once they are in grade school or when one or both parents remarry and have more children with other partners. The law takes care of that by giving the custodial parent most of the children's time and responsibility for the children's well being as well. The system favors the mothers because most states are no fault states when it comes to divorce. You are going to need someone to write up what you two have agreed 50/50 custody is going to be like until the child is 18.

Oh come on dude, I am not all over the place regarding OM. You really need to know who this guy is. He will be in contact with your daughter often if mom is going to stay with him now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak, and she doesn't have to hide him anymore. You don't know what kind of person this man is. But if he is seeing a married woman, he is pretty darn shady already. 

It is your life, and she is your child. You do have a say so in keeping him away from her until the divorce is finalized. I know in my state , the divorce is finalized 60 days after the petition is filed in court with both parties agreeing to all clauses and signed.


----------



## Nickel Speed

She will not reneg on the 50/50 custody. Of this, I am more sure that I am anything. 

I hope he isn't a POS, but of that I have no control. An extra 60 days won't make a difference. She will see him eventually.

If he harms my daughter, I'd gladly bury him somewhere.


----------



## Spicy

You will find out OMs name when you hear your daughter talking about her nice new friend. 

Glad you told your MIL. Good job. I also agree that not all divorces have to be hostile, mine was not. If she really doesn’t fight you on anything, that would be wonderful. It rarely happens, and I would be a lot less worried had she not been lying and hiding things from you. Even still, it could happen.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Spicy said:


> You will find out OMs name when you hear your daughter talking about her nice new friend.
> 
> Glad you told your MIL. Good job. I also agree that not all divorces have to be hostile, mine was not. If she really doesn’t fight you on anything, that would be wonderful. It rarely happens, and I would be a lot less worried had she not been lying and hiding things from you. Even still, it could happen.


Genuinely, I don't think she will.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

MattMatt said:


> Yes, that's only natural.
> 
> However, you are missing a *chimera*, an echo of something that might really never have been.


 I know you meant the second definition, but the first may be more apropos.

chi·me·raDictionary result for chimera
/kīˈmirə,kəˈmirə/Submit
noun
1.
(in Greek mythology) a fire-breathing female monster with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.
2.
a thing that is hoped or wished for but in fact is illusory or impossible to achieve.
"the economic sovereignty you claim to defend is a chimera"


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> She will not reneg on the 50/50 custody. Of this, I am more sure that I am anything.
> 
> I hope he isn't a POS, but of that I have no control. An extra 60 days won't make a difference. She will see him eventually.
> 
> If he harms my daughter, I'd gladly bury him somewhere.


I would not trust her to keep her word. Hopefully you are right and she doesn't fight you. 

As to your comment about dragging things in court for years and years is normally not the norm with WS. It is actually mostly the BS that file as the wandering spouse can't be bothered with such things. 

I listened to the advice I was given early on to lawyer up because my then X was spending money on his AP left and right. He truly was a POS because he didn't want to give me hardly any child support. He made three times what I made. 

Chemical engineers make a lot more in Texas than elementary school teachers\counselors do. He didn't only become a cheating disloyal jerk, he became a stingy SOB to even his flesh and blood too. 


I was in denial land when I sat in front of my lawyer's desk. I told him my husband would not do any of these things, but agreed for my lawyer to defend me and boy was I glad I left that office with him having my back. I went home and looked for my husband's pay stubs, tax documents as well as our properties paperwork and the cheating jerk had taken everything out of the file cabinets. Denial was gone. My lawyer warned me that we would probably have to subpoena him for him disclosure as I had no idea how much he made exactly or what assets he had taken with him. 

He had actually wiped out our savings accounts and the children's college funds! This was a man that adored his children and was a loyal husband for 21 years! 

When a spouse wants out and seeks to make nest elsewhere, even the children's needs become a burden too. The selfishness ditched out by the WS is not exclusive to the left behind spouse, it is to a less severe degree ditched to the kids too.


----------



## Chuck71

Rubix Cubed said:


> I know you meant the second definition, but the first may be more apropos.
> 
> chi·me·raDictionary result for chimera
> /kīˈmirə,kəˈmirə/Submit
> noun
> 1.
> (in Greek mythology) a fire-breathing female monster with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail.
> 2.
> a thing that is hoped or wished for but in fact is illusory or impossible to achieve.
> "the economic sovereignty you claim to defend is a chimera"


:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> She will not reneg on the 50/50 custody. Of this, I am more sure that I am anything.
> 
> I hope he isn't a POS, but of that I have no control. An extra 60 days won't make a difference. She will see him eventually.
> 
> If he harms my daughter, I'd gladly bury him somewhere.
> 
> 
> 
> I would not trust her to keep her word. Hopefully you are right and she doesn't fight you.
> 
> As to your comment about dragging things in court for years and years is normally not the norm with WS. It is actually mostly the BS that file as the wandering spouse can't be bothered with such things.
> 
> I listened to the advice I was given early on to lawyer up because my then X was spending money on his AP left and right. He truly was a POS because he didn't want to give me hardly any child support. He made three times what I made.
> 
> Chemical engineers make a lot more in Texas than elementary school teachers\counselors do. He didn't only become a cheating disloyal jerk, he became a stingy SOB to even his flesh and blood too.
> 
> 
> I was in denial land when I sat in front of my lawyer's desk. I told him my husband would not do any of these things, but agreed for my lawyer to defend me and boy was I glad I left that office with him having my back. I went home and looked for my husband's pay stubs, tax documents as well as our properties paperwork and the cheating jerk had taken everything out of the file cabinets. Denial was gone. My lawyer warned me that we would probably have to subpoena him for him disclosure as I had no idea how much he made exactly or what assets he had taken with him.
> 
> He had actually wiped out our savings accounts and the children's college funds! This was a man that adored his children and was a loyal husband for 21 years!
> 
> When a spouse wants out and seeks to make nest elsewhere, even the children's needs become a burden too. The selfishness ditched out by the WS is not exclusive to the left behind spouse, it is to a less severe degree ditched to the kids too.
Click to expand...


That's your experience, but not always what happens.


----------



## faithfulman

Nickel Speed said:


> She will not reneg on the 50/50 custody. Of this, I am more sure that I am anything.


Nickel you were pretty sure she was a faithful wife too. 



Nickel Speed said:


> I hope he isn't a POS, but of that I have no control. An extra 60 days won't make a difference. She will see him eventually.
> 
> If he harms my daughter, I'd gladly bury him somewhere.


At some point you have to exercise your own agency and be proactive in protecting your loved ones. 

If God forbid, some man abused your daughter somehow, your burying him after the fact does nothing to protect her.

This is not to say that you can definitely prevent such an occurrence or it would be your fault. 

But you can at least try. 

In fact, aren't you under the impression that the OM is probably a jailbird?

Why not find out if your wife is with the jailbird? 

***

You appear to have confidence in what your wife will or won't do.

Again, you have been losing those bets. Take control.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I lost ONE bet. My wife loves my daughter. I'm not worried about that. Let's not beat a dead horse.


----------



## Nickel Speed

If it is the jailbird, he's good with his kids too.


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> If it is the jailbird, he's good with his kids too.


In the waiting room on Sundays dressed in orange. Kids drinking soda and eating potato chips from the vending machine. 

Family time. 

He is dad of the year.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> I lost ONE bet. My wife loves my daughter. I'm not worried about that. Let's not beat a dead horse.


Well now that the W**** is gone, it's time to get on with a wonderful life!


----------



## Nickel Speed

Broken_in_Brooklyn said:


> In the waiting room on Sundays dressed in orange. Kids drinking soda and eating potato chips from the vending machine.
> 
> Family time.
> 
> He is dad of the year.


How about a reformed citizen who's not been in jail in a decade and has always made sure his kids were taken care of? Doesn't matter, I no longer think it is him.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> That's your experience, but not always what happens.


That may be true. I hope it is for you. May she love her child enough to fight to keep her as much as you want to have her too. Children need the love and care of both parents. Best of luck!


----------



## Broken_in_Brooklyn

Nickel Speed said:


> How about a reformed citizen who's not been in jail in a decade and has always made sure his kids were taken care of? Doesn't matter, I no longer think it is him.


You could have called him an ex jailbird.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Bibi1031 said:


> 50/50 custody is not standard procedure in the USA.


Um. Yah it is in many places. I can't say where it isn't. But I have never heard of a family court that does not do 50/50 by default anymore.



> You can't be shuffling children around back and forth between households forever.


Why not? 



> Especially once they are in grade school or when one or both parents remarry and have more children with other partners.


Why not? Millions of people do this successfully. 



> The law takes care of that by giving the custodial parent most of the children's time and responsibility for the children's well being as well. The system favors the mothers because most states are no fault states when it comes to divorce. You are going to need someone to write up what you two have agreed 50/50 custody is going to be like until the child is 18.


What the hell does no fault have to do with mother preference? Besides nothing?


----------



## manfromlamancha

So according to you:

Your "wife" is a really good person who was pushed by your behaviour to leave and probably started sleeping with another man before she left the marital home, a man who might be a model reformed citizen that has been a great dad to his own kids, so why not yours too. And if its not this man, then the man that she has picked is probably just as good because she is made that way. You are absolutely positive that you are going to get 50 percent custody because you are sure that she would not deny you that, and, more importantly the US legal system always does that. You are more than OK with the fact that this really good wife of yours comes from "being" with the model other man, to do laundry at your house etc while picking up burgers or fast food for you.

So all is hunky dory. I cannot see a problem. So in response to your thread title, "Hi" right back at you.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Can someone explain to me how insisting how wrong NS is is helpful to him?


----------



## Nickel Speed

I'm filling out paperwork tonight from my lawyer friend. Just talked to him. As soon as we meet next week, she's going into sign with no lawyer.

Who wants to takes bets on her changing her mind? I'll take that action.


----------



## Nickel Speed

I don't gaurantee her other man is good. He is probably worthless. I can't stop her from seeing him, so it's a moot point.


----------



## Bibi1031

NobodySpecial said:


> What the hell does no fault have to do with mother preference? Besides nothing?


Absolutely nothing yet that is how the courts rule in the good old USA. Divorce in most states are "no fault", and primary custody or custodial parenting is granted to the mother. No need to argue, simply look it up. I don't think the laws have changed all that much since 2013 that I retired as a school counselor and dealt with divorce decrees pretty much on a weekly basis, and about 1 or 2 hundred during registration at the beginning of every school year.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Bibi1031 said:


> Absolutely nothing yet that is how the courts rule in the good old USA. Divorce in most states are "no fault", and primary custody or custodial parenting is granted to the mother. No need to argue, simply look it up.


So why do you combine no fault with custody? In any event, what I have read/heard/seen does not support your assertion. I guess your source would be interesting.


----------



## Bibi1031

NobodySpecial said:


> So why do you combine no fault with custody? In any event, what I have read/heard/seen does not support your assertion. I guess your source would be interesting.


You don't have to go very far to dig, especially how many cases of infidelity ending in divorce go through this forum. Most of the poor guys that are cheated on by their wives must fight for 50/50 custody. The majority of the time too the children reside with Mom. It is only different when the woman agrees in writing to let the children live with Dad. Not the norm at all due to child support issues I suppose.

No fault in this thread is important because she cheated yet she has primary custody unless she agrees in writing that they will have joint custody which will be divided 50/50. And by the way, joint custody to places like schools or daycares means silch. The custodial parent gets all the documents the school sends home such as awards ceremonies, field trip forms, party invites, report cards, teacher conferences etc. If a divorce decree states joint custody, we send all documentation to the parent that has the same address as the address printed on the child's school records as children's primary residence. The other parent will need to come in person and sign a separate form if they want things like report card copies sent to them as well as teacher conference dates too. 

Most parents are pretty good though. They put the other parent's name and address on the emergency contacts part of the child's registration forms. This allows the school to contact that other parent if the child is ill and must go home, and the custodial parent is not reached or can't come and pick up the child/ children.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Bibi1031 said:


> You don't have to go very far to dig, especially how many cases of infidelity ending in divorce go through this forum.


Woa. If you are using the a forum of self selected cases to support your claim about the majority of custody nationally? Okkkay then. Cheers.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Bibi1031 said:


> 50/50 custody is not standard procedure in the USA. You can't be shuffling children around back and forth between households forever. Especially once they are in grade school or when one or both parents remarry and have more children with other partners. The law takes care of that by giving the custodial parent most of the children's time and responsibility for the children's well being as well. The system favors the mothers because most states are no fault states when it comes to divorce. You are going to need someone to write up what you two have agreed 50/50 custody is going to be like until the child is 18.





Bibi1031 said:


> Absolutely nothing yet that is how the courts rule in the good old USA. Divorce in most states are "no fault", and primary custody or custodial parenting is granted to the mother. No need to argue, simply look it up. I don't think the laws have changed all that much since 2013 that I retired as a school counselor and dealt with divorce decrees pretty much on a weekly basis, and about 1 or 2 hundred during registration at the beginning of every school year.


No matter how well meaning, unless you're a Colorado family law attorney/expert and know all of the facts in this situation, your advice is unhelpful. What you say may be true, but Nickel Speed already has a lawyer. Let's let him do his job.



Nickel Speed said:


> I'm filling out paperwork tonight from my lawyer friend. Just talked to him. As soon as we meet next week, she's going into sign with no lawyer.
> 
> Who wants to takes bets on her changing her mind? I'll take that action.





Nickel Speed said:


> I don't gaurantee her other man is good. He is probably worthless. I can't stop her from seeing him, so it's a moot point.


I recommend talking to your lawyer about standard terms you can build into the custody agreement with your STBXW to protect your daughter from the man/men she's seeing. This is fairly common practice, at least in my jurisdiction, and may be a good idea when you're in the dark about the trash your wife is with.


----------



## StillSearching

Nickel Speed said:


> I'm filling out paperwork tonight from my lawyer friend. Just talked to him. As soon as we meet next week, she's going into sign with no lawyer.
> 
> Who wants to takes bets on her changing her mind? I'll take that action.


I'm not betting against you.
I did exactly the same thing...my wife didn't want a lawyer.
She didn't change her mind. 
She saw freedom and she liked sex with strangers too much.


----------



## Bibi1031

Satisfied Mind said:


> No matter how well meaning, unless you're a Colorado family law attorney/expert and know all of the facts in this situation, your advice is unhelpful. What you say may be true, but Nickel Speed already has a lawyer. Let's let him do his job.
> 
> 
> *several of us told him to find out the laws in his state. He mentioned he had an appointment with a lawyer. I guess his appointment was with his lawyer friend that gave him the paperwork he and his WS will sign and take to court themselves. That is good, they will share their child equally. *
> 
> 
> I recommend talking to your lawyer about standard terms you can build into the custody agreement with your STBXW to protect your daughter from the man/men she's seeing. This is fairly common practice, at least in my jurisdiction, and may be a good idea when you're in the dark about the trash your wife is with.


*If his lawyer is a friend, then most bases have been covered. Their child is only two right now, but my information in recent posts will help Nickel Speed to have all important information from his child's school sent to him too. All he will have to do is contact the school in order to be able to attend school functions or set up meetings with his child's teachers if need be.[ /B]*


----------



## NobodySpecial

Bibi1031 said:


> *If his lawyer is a friend, then most bases have been covered. Their child is only two right now, but my information in recent posts will help Nickel Speed to have all important information from his child's school sent to him too. All he will have to do is contact the school in order to be able to attend school functions or set up meetings with his child's teachers if need be.[ /B]*


*

Why would he have to contact the school separate from the child's enrollment?*


----------



## Nickel Speed

Satisfied Mind said:


> No matter how well meaning, unless you're a Colorado family law attorney/expert and know all of the facts in this situation, your advice is unhelpful. What you say may be true, but Nickel Speed already has a lawyer. Let's let him do his job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I recommend talking to your lawyer about standard terms you can build into the custody agreement with your STBXW to protect your daughter from the man/men she's seeing. This is fairly common practice, at least in my jurisdiction, and may be a good idea when you're in the dark about the trash your wife is with.


I know this is possible to do, but this would only be temporary until the divorce is final. In this case, 90 days after paperwork is complete. I don't know that it would be of much benefit. She is protective of our daughter. Nothing has ever led me to believe otherwise, even the cheating and lying to me.

Also, I've seen how much a piece of paper really matters to her.


----------



## Nickel Speed

NobodySpecial said:


> Why would he have to contact the school separate from the child's enrollment?


For some reason, she doesn't understand joint custody.


----------



## NobodySpecial

Nickel Speed said:


> For some reason, she doesn't understand joint custody.


Seemingly she doesn't understand ANY custody since you can still interact with the school without half physical custody.


----------



## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> For some reason, she doesn't understand joint custody.


The sad part is that I do. I know how schools work too. It is fine. Time will teach all who have to deal with school rules regarding divorce decree and enforcing your parent rights. The safety of children is of utmost importance in their school. If you are not on the registration information or on the contact information, you will not be allowed to take your child or talk to their teachers unless you are legally allowed to do so. A birth certificate with your name on it will not be enough. I have no idea why anyone other than Nickel Speed disagrees with posters so darn much. 

We have figured out he fights all of us every step of the way on everything we post. He leaves details out of his posts as well. 

He didn't mention the lawyer being a friend. He simply got angry with TAM members that "made" him contact a lawyer. He also stated that his wife left the pets at his home and that he took care of them there for her. Well, there was no pets, but instead they have a young daughter together. I have no idea why the need to argue, then blame TAM when most of our combined advice was spot on regarding his wife separating and cheating. It just doesn't make much sense to seek advice and then lie/misinform, blame, and argue every step of the way. 

:scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:


----------



## Bibi1031

NobodySpecial said:


> Seemingly she doesn't understand ANY custody since you can still interact with the school without half physical custody.


Hmm...nah!


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel Speed said:


> I know this is possible to do, but this would only be temporary until the divorce is final. In this case, 90 days after paperwork is complete. I don't know that it would be of much benefit. She is protective of our daughter. Nothing has ever led me to believe otherwise, even the cheating and lying to me.
> 
> Also, I've seen how much a piece of paper really matters to her.


Again, something to talk with your lawyer about, but typically such agreements are entered as stipulations that are filed with the court and, like the general custody/parenting agreement, remain in effect and are enforceable by the court after divorce is final. It could be an agreement on a certain amount of time before contact with a new partner occurs or some other restriction. If she later disregards that agreement, there would be significant legal consequences for her if you choose to enforce it (unlike her cheating).

I don't know how many other stories you've read here, but there are some where seemingly great mothers are so deep in the affair fog that they make some really bad decisions with respect to their kids. Even if your wife isn't one of those, it doesn't hurt to have that protection in place. Sort of like concealed carrying - hopefully you never have to use it, but if you do, you're really glad you have it.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Bibi1031 said:


> The sad part is that I do. I know how schools work too. It is fine. Time will teach all who have to deal with school rules regarding divorce decree and enforcing your parent rights. The safety of children is of utmost importance in their school. If you are not on the registration information or on the contact information, you will not be allowed to take your child or talk to their teachers unless you are legally allowed to do so. A birth certificate with your name on it will not be enough. I have no idea why anyone other than Nickel Speed disagrees with posters so darn much.
> 
> We have figured out he fights all of us every step of the way on everything we post. He leaves details out of his posts as well.
> 
> He didn't mention the lawyer being a friend. He simply got angry with TAM members that "made" him contact a lawyer. He also stated that his wife left the pets at his home and that he took care of them there for her. Well, there was no pets, but instead they have a young daughter together. I have no idea why the need to argue, then blame TAM when most of our combined advice was spot on regarding his wife separating and cheating. It just doesn't make much sense to seek advice and then lie/misinform, blame, and argue every step of the way.
> 
> :scratchhead::scratchhead::scratchhead:




We have pets too. The daughter is the only information I hid. And arguments like THIS one specifically is the reason I left out that information. It was not relevant to why I came to TAM.

There is actually a difference between fighting and rationalizing. Any time I have a view that someone disagrees with, suddenly I am arguing with EVERYONE? Not true. I've used the advice here as I saw it applied to my specific situation.

Why does it matter that my ex roommate is a lawyer? The results are the same as any hired lawyer.

Also, why would one assume my name will not be on the paperwork at school. Why do you assume she will be registering our daughter for school by default? Because she is the mother? No need for the biased sexism.

I was never angry about contacting a lawyer. It was simply not possible to contact a lawyer on the weekend. I needed a breather also.

Furthermore, absolutely none of this arguing is pertinent to the discussion at hand. If one does not like the way I am handling the situation, they are free to stop reading.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Satisfied Mind said:


> Again, something to talk with your lawyer about, but typically such agreements are entered as stipulations that are filed with the court and, like the general custody/parenting agreement, remain in effect and are enforceable by the court after divorce is final. It could be an agreement on a certain amount of time before contact with a new partner occurs or some other restriction. If she later disregards that agreement, there would be significant legal consequences for her if you choose to enforce it (unlike her cheating).
> 
> I don't know how many other stories you've read here, but there are some where seemingly great mothers are so deep in the affair fog that they make some really bad decisions with respect to their kids. Even if your wife isn't one of those, it doesn't hurt to have that protection in place. Sort of like concealed carrying - hopefully you never have to use it, but if you do, you're really glad you have it.


When the affair partner can't be named, it would be difficult to single out a person. I do not believe she would agree to no dating around our child for a year or 15.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Is a complete list of pets required to assess the rest of my divorce?

If so, I will get to work.


----------



## faithfulman

NobodySpecial said:


> Why would he have to contact the school separate from the child's enrollment?


I don't believe that was what was said.

I think the point is that in cases of divorce, the schools maintain one parent as a point of contact, who also gets all the information and interaction with the school, unless the other parent explicitly requests to be kept abreast of of any information they would have if they were still married.


----------



## NobodySpecial

faithfulman said:


> I don't believe that was what was said.
> 
> I think the point is that in cases of divorce, the schools maintain one parent as a point of contact, who also gets all the information and interaction with the school, unless the other parent explicitly requests to be kept abreast of of any information they would have if they were still married.


That is not the case in our school district. When there are 2 parents or legal guardians, they send 2 copies.


----------



## Satisfied Mind

Nickel Speed said:


> When the affair partner can't be named, it would be difficult to single out a person. I do not believe she would agree to no dating around our child for a year or 15.


A common restriction that I've seen (and has been upheld in courts in other states) is not introducing the child to a new dating partner for the first six months of dating and no overnight stays until after one year of dating. Obviously, you and she can negotiate that, but it's worth talking about and could give you both some peace of mind. There are a lot of POS guys out there, and I've read about too many pedo step-fathers. Sure, you can destroy the guy after the fact, but better to have protections in place that may help prevent the situation in the first place.


----------



## Nickel Speed

Satisfied Mind said:


> Nickel Speed said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the affair partner can't be named, it would be difficult to single out a person. I do not believe she would agree to no dating around our child for a year or 15.
> 
> 
> 
> A common restriction that I've seen (and has been upheld in courts in other states) is not introducing the child to a new dating partner for the first six months of dating and no overnight stays until after one year of dating. Obviously, you and she can negotiate that, but it's worth talking about and could give you both some peace of mind. There are a lot of POS guys out there, and I've read about too many pedo step-fathers. Sure, you can destroy the guy after the fact, but better to have protections in place that may help prevent the situation in the first place.
Click to expand...

Good idea.


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## Bibi1031

Nickel Speed said:


> We have pets too. The daughter is the only information I hid. And arguments like THIS one specifically is the reason I left out that information. It was not relevant to why I came to TAM.
> 
> There is actually a difference between fighting and rationalizing. Any time I have a view that someone disagrees with, suddenly I am arguing with EVERYONE? Not true. I've used the advice here as I saw it applied to my specific situation.
> 
> Why does it matter that my ex roommate is a lawyer? The results are the same as any hired lawyer.
> 
> Also, why would one assume my name will not be on the paperwork at school. Why do you assume she will be registering our daughter for school by default? Because she is the mother? No need for the biased sexism.
> 
> I was never angry about contacting a lawyer. It was simply not possible to contact a lawyer on the weekend. I needed a breather also.
> 
> Furthermore, absolutely none of this arguing is pertinent to the discussion at hand. If one does not like the way I am handling the situation, they are free to stop reading.


*Why does it matter that my ex roommate is a lawyer? The results are the same as any hired lawyer.
*

It doesn't matter as all. It is actually a good move. I actually stated that all your bases were probably covered since you had a friend lawyer to advise you.

I did that when I filed my 2nd petition for divorce. I only paid my friend $75 for helping me fill out my paperwork and I went to the courthouse and filed the petition for divorce myself once my X signed the paperwork. We had no children or property together, so it was easy peasy and dirt cheap. I understand that. It is also great and really good for your child to have both parents present as much as possible. 


*Also, why would one assume my name will not be on the paperwork at school. Why do you assume she will be registering our daughter for school by default? Because she is the mother? No need for the biased sexism.
*

I was stating my experiences with students at the schools I taught, and in later years in my career, students I counseled. As a counselor I got to see more just how terrible some parents fight over their children and how many of them don't even put the other parent in any forms during registration. Then the unsuspecting parent comes to see their child because they get to spend lunch and take their child home on the child's birthday and the other parent (usually the mother) didn't even bother putting any information about the non-custodial parent anywhere. No divorce decree is required at schools either unless the parents bring them in during registration. It isn't until a parent shows up at our front office and our computer system rejects his ID as not being in that particular child's records. 

I would then get called and I had to take care of calling the other parent to make sure the parent standing in front of me was legally able to have lunch with his/her child and take that child home with him/her. It actually happened very often, and none of that will be necessary in your case if you know or are present during your child's registration or call the school counselor or nurse to make sure you won't be denied spending time with you child and also fill out a form so the school can send report cards to your address or the mother's if she is the one that does not get the report cards or notes from the child's school. 

Believe it or not, school records such as immunizations and report cards are not sent off to just anyone. Schools need proper legal documentation to give these out. It is a legality schools must abide by. I was just trying to make you aware, I was not assuming anything at all.


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## Bibi1031

NobodySpecial said:


> That is not the case in our school district. When there are 2 parents or legal guardians, they send 2 copies.


Well good for those parents that put both parents/guardians in the registration info. If one was not put on there, no school district in America will send any educational or medical records to anyone but the parents/guardians listed period. If your school district does this without proper documentation, they will be in serious trouble with the education agency of their state.


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## MattMatt

*Moderation team message:-*

Nickel Speed will no longer be participating on TAM.


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## faithfulman

Was he trolling?


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## MattMatt

faithfulman said:


> Was he trolling?


Yes.


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