# 1 Year Later, FINALLY Ready To Tell My Story



## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

I originally stuck this in another thread today, but decided I wanted to bare my soul with my own thread. This site has been so helpful over the last 6 months for me. I have been reading and learning from all of you, and feel like it is time I shared my story as well. After all, all take and no give makes for a pretty selfish man. So if anyone can find advice, solace or even just a chuckle out of this thread I am happy.

As a set up, my wife and I are in full R mode and making solid progress. D-Day was a year ago. Like some others, I did not find this site until more than 6 months post D-Day. So it was not really a resource for me when it would have been the most valuable. But to be honest, not sure I would have used it as I wasn't really ready to share at the time. So here goes . . . .

*Chapter 1: Us - The easy part*.

My wife and I met the second day on campus in college. Started dating, both assumed it would just be our first college relationship. Four years later, we graduated still very much in love and very much together. We were two peas in a pod.

We took our time after graduation, neither wanted to rush into engagement and marriage as so much of our adult lives were still coming together. We knew were really young, and we were focused on starting careers and figuring out what we wanted to do and who we wanted to be in life. But we were still in love, dating exclusively and talking about the future. We just didn't want to rush things.

Three years later, I proposed and we were engaged. We bought a townhouse together and starting prepping for the wedding and officially building our lives together. It was great, and our families and friends were thrilled. All was perfect. We got married on the 8th anniversary of when we started dating.

The first couple of years were really good. Because we had been so close for so long, but never lived together etc (both come from strict Catholic families) it was really a time full of fun, laughter and happiness. She worked for a major airline (marketing side), so we used her benefits to travel all over the world together, footloose and fancy free!

The only downside was she seemed to be losing interest in the bedroom department. In college, our sex life was quite active and fun. We had been each other's first and spent all 4 years of college exploring each other and learning what the other (and ourselves) liked or didn't. But things had slowed down in the year or so after our marriage. Sex became less frequent, and she seemed less interested. It got to the point where we were being intimate once every few months, and I wasn't comfortable with it. 

I would try to initiate, she would shoot me down with a "not in the mood, have a headache" etc. When I tried to bring it up as an issue I wanted to talk about, she would get very uncomfortable, cry and talk about feeling "broken". She would say she wasn't sure why, sex just didn't really interest her anymore. 

If I pushed further, she would cry more, pull away emotionally and get angry. This cycle happened several times in the third year of our marriage. I proposed MC, IC, sexual therapist etc. Asked about her getting tested for proper hormone levels etc. This conversation would yield the same results of crying, emotional detachment and anger.

I struggled with this during that third year of our marriage. I had needs that weren't being met, and couldn't get her to commit to finding a solution. I thought I had a decision to make, stay in an otherwise really healthy and strong marriage and accept that sex will not be a regular part of it or make the decision that sex is critical and move on (i.e. D). I chose to stay and honor the commitment we had made to each other. I convinced myself sex wasn't that important, and relished in the fact that the rest of our marriage was so good. 

Unfortunately, I did not identify the third (and correct) option: clearly define my needs and expectations and issue an ultimatum that we either needed to work together to fix the issues or we need to accept that the marriage is not working and move on. In my head, I had tried to push the topic and had hit a dead end. I did not understand that I needed to be more Alpha and force action one way or the other. 

Anyway, with my decision made we continued on. We continued to have a lot fun, enjoying life and building our careers. In hindsight, we were sliding down the slippery slope of becoming roommates. 

And yes, I know you all see this coming a mile away (as I do reflecting back). But remember, we are all here because there was a time when we too were ignorant to the harsh reality of the world.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

*Chapter 2: Close call! Where did THAT come from?*

So our sexless marriage is chugging along really well, other than the that obvious (and giant) issue. But I am continuing to tell myself that the rest of it all makes up for it, and besides, it's like getting back in touch with my frustrated teenage years - "I'll be out in a minute mom, just cleaning up my room!" :lol:

My wife goes on an international business trip to Asia for a conference. It's a really cool opportunity, first time to Asia. She invites me to come with her and proposes extending the trip a few days so we can really take the city in, but I can't. I have a client coming into town that week and can't get away. So off she goes for 4 days in Thailand.

The night she gets back, she seems off. Can't put my finger on it, but seems emotionally distant and not herself. Weird. Then it gets weirder. She has a few drinks after dinner (she usually is a one or two drink maximum girl at this point), then we head to bed and she initiates sex. I am confused and beginning to hear alarm bells in my head. She falls asleep, and I get up and go downstairs as my brain is trying to make sense of it all.

I notice her purse and some things on the counter, including her hotel bill etc. I notice on the hotel bill that there are charges for 6 drinks missing from her mini fridge. I immediately know something is VERY wrong now. She doesn't drink that much, and NEVER drinks out of a minibar. Plus, 6 drinks in 2 nights? I go to bed pissed and sick to my stomach, but know there is no point to waking her up at 2:00 am while tipsy and trying to have the conversation. 

The next morning, I sit her down and tell her I know something is up. I tell her she needs to come clean right now on what happened in Thailand. I did not tip my hand on what I knew, but warned her I knew a lot more than she would expect and this was her one shot to get it out on the table. She burst into tears and told me the following.

She had been out to dinner with a group of airline employees (both her company and others) and they had a couple of drinks with dinner. When they came back to the hotel, they were all hanging out in the lobby having drinks and laughing. She then tells me that the hotel bar closed, but none of the group was tired due to the time change. So she volunteered to go up and get a round of drinks for the group from her room. She tells me that one of the guys offered to help carry stuff. 

She tells me at this point, that she had been flirting a little with this guy earlier etc. She says he had started chatting her up, hitting on her etc. She admitted that it felt good, she was enjoying the attention etc. 

So they get to her room, go in for the drinks, he makes a pass and they start kissing. She tells me they kissed for a minute or two, he started to push her towards the bed and she freaked. She realized what was happening and pushed him away, grabbed 3 of the drinks and told him they needed to get back down to the group and walked out. She said he followed her with the drinks and they went back downstairs to the lobby. She said she waited about 5 minutes then left the group and went back to her room where she cried etc.

She tells me this story through her own tears, keeps apologizing etc. I am pissed and shocked. Don't know what to make of it all. But feel like her story lines up with the info I have (that she didn't know I had), so I tell her how upset I am and disappointed that she would put herself in that situation (drinking heavily with coworkers, flirting and allowing a guy int her room etc). I swallow the story as is, and decided to forgive her. Tell her I am pissed, that she can't behave like that as a married woman and she better not pull this sh1t again. Then I close the chapter and move on. 

Rug sweep anyone? :smthumbup: If only I knew then what we all know now . . . .

Gee, I am certain that all of you TAM masters are shocked at the way this story has played out so far, and can't possibly guess where we are headed in chapter 3! :rofl:


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

*Chapter 3: The Full Monte Betrayal*

So things settle down, go back to normal as they so often do after a good rug sweeping. We are both doing well in our careers, and with each passing month the weird incident in Thailand fades from memory. 

About a year and a half later, we decide to buy a house and start a family. So we move, and then get down to some baby makin! Now for a guy in a sexless marriage, this seems like a very good opportunity. Except for one thing, apparently my wife and I are the two most fertile people in the world. We decide to give it a shot, and boom!, bun in the oven right out of the gate. 9 months later, our daughter is born. Life is good.

Another two years go by, and we decide our daughter needs a sibling. And we always wanted at least two. So we decide to go again. And yes, boom!, bun in the oven right out of the gate again. 9 months later we have a beautiful son. 

I know I should be so grateful that we had such an easy time having kids, but seriously, a couple of months of trying wouldn't have been all that bad for a guy who is getting laid once every couple of years at this point. :lol: Even birthday sex had fallen by the wayside. But I digress . . . .

So at this point, we are still both working successful, but demanding careers, while raising two kids under the age of 4. Needless to say, things are hectic around the house. Over the last few years, we have slipped further and further down the roommate bunny hole. And now we are becoming roommates that feel over-stressed and under-appreciated at work and at home. We begin keeping score, and each feels they are doing way more than the other around the house, with the kids etc. 

As a result, we each have a bit of a chip on our shoulder. Tend to be quicker to argue etc. Now, I don't want to give the impression that things were awful, they weren't. We still had lots of good times - fun vacations, great nights with neighborhood friends and families and good nights together at home too. But we were arguing more often over the last year or two than we ever had. And about really stupid things too. And still no sex. Did I mention the no sex thing? :rofl:

So our daughter is 3 and our son is almost a year old, my wife is back at work and struggling through a merger. She is very frustrated with work. Constantly feeling like she is odd woman out as a result of being one of the few from her side of the company in the department as well as being one of even fewer women. She's definitely feeling the "good ol' boys club" thing. 

She is given the chance to go to Europe for a conference, where she will be a featured speaker. She is stoked, and she should be. Given all that is going on at work, it's a nice shot in the arm for her work ego. She suggests I come with her, but I can't as I have some client meetings, not to mention it it would be difficult to line up someone to watch the kids for several days etc. So of she heads for the 3 day trip in May of 2011.

She gets back, and seems a bit distant and off again. Now mind you, there had been other trips in between these conferences, but this is the first time something seems off again. My spidey senses are tingling. 

I start asking questions and pushing to know more about what she did the two nights she was there. She admits that one of the nights, she went out with a group and they stayed out until 3:00 am. But she assures me it was just because no one was tired due to the time change with the travel. Tells me they didn't really drink all that much, just hung out until the bar closed and then went out for pizza etc. 

At this point I don't have any proof, but things feel off and I am still mad that she is such a stick in the mud at home with us and so eager to go out and have fun as soon as she gets away from me and the kids. I tell her she used to want to have fun with me, now all she does is pick fights. I tell her I miss the old wife, the one that was fun and playful and always found a reason to laugh. She starts crying, saying she is sorry I feel that way etc. Understands what I am saying and commits to working harder on us.

I am still uneasy. Check her cell phone that night after she goes to bed and notice a text to another guy that was clearly at the conference. Text from him the last morning she in Europe: "You coming down to join us for an English breakfast?" Wife responds, "I wish I could, God knows I need it. But I need to get to airport or I am going to miss my flight. I don't know how you guys do it. You had more to drink than me, and you're fine. I feel awful. Gonna need the sleep on my flight back. Cheers!"

So I immediately go up, phone in hand and demand answers. She is caught off guard, does the predictable "Why are you looking at my phone?" Then admits she did have too much to drink, knew I would be upset, so she didn't tell me. Assures me it was a big group out the night before and at breakfast, and nothing bad happened. I point out that the group didn't text her, just this guy. Who is he, how do you know him etc. 

He's a contractor, his company was hosting the conference, had lined her up as speaker etc. That's why he was checking up to make sure she was ok. My wife is sticking to the "absolutely nothing happened". I bring up Thailand, she gets more defensive. We both go to bed angry.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

*Chapter 4: D-Day Set Up*

So about two weeks after my wife comes home from the conference in Europe, she leaves me a playful card on the kitchen island that asks me to meet her at a nice hotel nearby at 3:00 for "some fun." huh?

So I go and meet her in the bar for a drink. She tells me she has spent a lot of time thinking about why I was so upset when she got back, and she realized that I was right. She continues to assure me that nothing inappropriate happened, but now understands why I felt that way. She had become distant, angry and not a lot of fun to be around. And she tells me she wants to change it, which is why she invited me here and got us a room. We have a nice time, and she starts making more of an effort to be fun and engaged around the family over the next few months. Things seem like they are getting better.

She is suddenly interested in sex. This same woman, who had been so uninterested for the last 6 years, is now suddenly awakened. Our sex life is back to like it was in college, 2 or 3 times per week. Sometimes multiple times a night. She starts buying sexy underwear. Working out more, and loses some weight. (Yes, I know all of these should have been HUGE indicators. But again, this was in my uber ignorant phase). 

I should mention, that during all of this, I am still concerned about her new friend from the conference in Europe. So I am keeping an eye on her cell phone and work email. Her email is on our iPad, so it's pretty easy to poke around every once and a while. And her phone isn't locked. I see the very occasional text to/from OM, but nothing incriminating. So while I am concerned that this guy is interested and seems to be a little friendly with my wife, I decide not to do anything unless I begin to see an inappropriate content or amount of contact.

In August of 2011, I see a text from him telling her is in the lobby of her office building and ready to go. She texts back she is sending one last email and will come down, asks where he wants to go for lunch. He says it's her call. I ask my wife what she did for lunch that day and she tells me she went out by herself and brought a sandwich back and ate at her desk.

This moment marks my initial realization that something very wrong might actually be happening. I step up my surveillance efforts.

She has a conference in Las Vegas in September, and I come along. We have a good time in Vegas. My last night there (weekend before her conference) we go out for dinner and a drink. She has more to drink than she normally does. We come back to the room and we have some pretty wild adult time. Four times to be specific smthumbup: still my personal best, had to brag!). Needless to say, it was a lot of fun and a great night. She then goes into the bathroom afterwords for a minute. I notice her cell phone isn't on the nightstand where she had put it when we walked in. When she comes out she sets it down and then goes to sleep. I grab said cell phone and see she sent the OM a text at 2:00 am Vegas time that says "I drank too much tonight. Could really use that English breakfast." 

I am crushed. We have this great night out on the town, great sex and her first thought is to run and send him a text. I know I must expose, but need the smoking gun.

Three weeks later, I get it. She forgets to delete an email to OM from her sent mail. I see the whole chain of email from the last week or so. Not pretty. Nothing sexual in nature, but 4 or 5 emails back and forth a day. All personal, no work. Discussions about how great it was to see the other, how much fun they had. Can't wait to see you again etc. 

I start to realize that some of the team outting and business dinners over the last 3 months were BS. She was with him. So I was home watching the kids so she could have an affair. It gets better. In one email she mentions that I am heading to <city>the next week for work (OM lives in <city> and commutes to our city each week as consultant). He make ecrack about being glad my work flies me on other airline so we don't have to have the awkward meeting in the airport. My wife writes back and makes a joke, suggesting he set me up with his wife while I am in town and he is gone. 

So there it is. She is having an affair, I am watching the kids and running the house while she does it, all so I can be the butt of her jokes with the OM. My furious rage sets in deep.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

*Chapter 5: D-Day*

So I discovered the email while I was home after work on a weeknight, but had to hold it together for about an hour. Our routine was that I left work, picked the kids up from daycare, came home and got them settled, and would then start getting dinner ready. My wife had a longer commute and usually got home around 6:30 or so.

So I am at home, with my entire world crumbling down around me and full of rage, and all I can do is work on dinner and wait for her to come home. So I prep the kids dinner, and hear her car pull up on the driveway. I give the kids a kiss and tell them I have to go out for a bit, but that mommy is home and will take care of them. I walk out to meet her on the back steps of our house and immediately say the following:

Me - "Do you want to tell me about "OM Name".?" 
Her - "What do you mean." Wide-eyed and suddenly pale.
Me - "You know exactly what I mean, so don't for one more minute lie to me. The lies are done. I know. I know you have been having an inappropriate relationship with him since your conference in Europe. You have lied to me and deceived me over the last 4 months and it all ends now. I will not listen to your bullsh1t one more minute. He is not just a friend. I want to hear you say the words right now. "
Her - "What do you want me to say?" now crying, and trying to reach out to me.
Me - "Don't you dare touch me. Not after what you've done to me, to us and to this family. Now say it. Tell me what you did."
Her - "I can't. I can't say it out loud." Crying hard.
Me - "Then I'll say it for you. You f'ed him. You betrayed your husband and destroyed your family and f'ed him. You ended your marriage and crushed the one person who has always supported you. I'm done. The kids are inside, their dinner is prepped. Feed them, play with them and put them to bed. Enjoy your time with them, think about what you've done to them and their childhood. I am leaving." At which point I started walking to the car.
Her - "Where are you going? What are you doing? We need to talk about this."
Me - "Not sure where I am going, but away from here right now. There is nothing to talk about. Anything that could have been discussed has already been destroyed." Then I closed the car door and drove away.

Truth be told. I drove about 4 blocks away, pulled over and let 'er rip. I cried like I have never cried before. It took every once of strength I had not to break down in front of her. While I am crying like a baby, she starts texting me frantically. I keep sending really cruel and harsh texts back. I texted some things that I am not proud of, to be honest. Some things I do regret saying, to be honest. I was perfectly justified, mind you, but I was set on inflicting as much pain as possible.

After about two hours, I drove back home knowing the kids would be down. I walked in and went down to the wine rack. I grabbed a nice bottle we had been saving and came up the stairs. She was in the kitchen crying and looked up startled. I told her I was going to sit down and drink this bottle of wine, and she had the time it would take me to drink that bottle to come clean and tell me everything. That she needed to answer every single question I had honestly and completely no matter how uncomfortable it made either of us. 

Then I sat down and angrily drank a bottle of really good wine while I learned the deepest and darkest secrets of what my wife had become. I told her I didn't know if I could fathom staying married to her, but that the only shot she had was telling me everything. I then asked her if she wanted me to get her a glass, which caught her off guard. She said "No, why would you even ask me that?" To which I responded "Well we had been saving this bottle for a special occasion, and I think this qualifies. It's not everyday that a marriage of 8 years and a family of four is destroyed."

I learned she had indeed slept with POSOM at conference in Europe. Had gone out with a group, came back to hotel and had a few drinks and then gone back to his room and had sex. She came home freaked out, and then doubly so when I immediately picked up on it. But then two weeks later she met him for lunch at work. They are started lots of texting and emails. Occasional phone call. They slept together 3 more times over the next 3 months. All three times were after work while I was home watching the kids. Awesome.

She had the typical fog going on, said she felt like she just needed to be selfish and have something for her. Was getting lost in all her roles as mom, wife, employee etc. Didn't have anything that was just for her. She also said that she felt like she was being a better wife and mother during the affair, that having something that was just for her made her more giving in other areas. She was afraid if she gave it up, she would go back to being "a shrew" as she said. Good-old fashioned cake eating anyone? :scratchhead:

I told her I would stay long enough to help her figure out why she did this, but that didn't mean I was necessarily sticking around for the long haul. I said that I wouldn't force her to move out of the house immediately if she did the following:

Send a NC text to POSOM, which she did and I read. 
She agreed to never again contact him, ever. 
She agreed to get help, MC at the least.
No more travel, for at least a year.
Full transparency - phone, email etc.
She agreed to expose the affair to her parents and mine - sit down and tell them, face-to-face what she had done.

In hindsight, I am sooo lucky that I accidentally did all of the above without fully understanding it was the best and only shot I had. When I cam to TAM and started reading the posts, I was delighted to learn I had done most things right based on my gut. 

But I do have to confess to messing up one are pretty badly. I made the mistake of calling the POSOM the next morning. 

I told him that he was never to try and contact my wife again. I explained that if he saw on her on the sidewalk coming towards him, he better cross the street. I then explained that my family farms, outside of the city. And that when I was a kid, we would go hunting out on these large tracks of desolate land. And I told him we always had to be really careful not to drop anything (cell phones etc) because there was no chance you would ever find it again if you dropped it. I explained that even large items would never be found out there, even if people were looking for them. And then I reminded him that many times in these situations, spouses can react very violently and that I was working really hard to control my rage. But that any future contact would make it mush more difficult to control that anger.

The above paragraph isn't my finest hour, but if I caused him to fear for his safety a bit, I won't lose any sleep. The part that I regret is what I did next.

I told him that he didn't get to walk away clean from knowingly f'ing another man's wife. I told him he had 24 hours to tell his wife, and that I would be calling her to verify he had manned up and told her. Yeah, so I literally gave him a game clock to manage his gas lighting against.

When I called his wife the next day at her office, she was pissed. She stopped me before I could say much of anything and said, "OM told me everything last night. Now please do not ever call me or OM again and let us live our lives."

At the time, I was really confused. Not sure why anyone in her situation wouldn't want to hear what the other person had to say. But that's before I really understood the gas lighting thing. So if there was one thing to do over, it would be not telling him that. I would have just called OMW, told her and offered to send emails etc.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

*Chapter 6: The Next Year*

So after D-Day, I made the decision to allow my wife to stay in the guest room of our house. The main driver for this was not wanting to disrupt our kids lives while we figured out what to do next. 

We did sit down with both set of parents in the first week, and my wife told them what she had done. Looking back, I think her strength in these moments were the first glimpses of the woman I married still being in there. She did not want to do this (obviously), but I had told her it was a must and she tackled it head on. 

Interestingly, her parents were very disappointed in her behavior and supportive of me not leaving. But they also quickly talked about all of the stress we both have at work and that sometimes that can result in not being focused on each other etc. I don't disagree with what they were saying, but listening to her parents blameshift was surprising. My wife and I have since discussed it and she agrees it was odd and misplaced. But I suppose it is the unwavering love of a parent, and the unwillingness to see your child in a bad light. I don't fault them at all.

We started MC together a few weeks after D-Day and still go about once every 5 or 6 weeks. It's been good. The sessions have always been more focused on the marriage than the affair. We really only talk about the affair through the lens of it affecting the marriage, if that makes sense. 

So we have spent much of our own energy focused on dealing with the affair. We have read a lot of books together, had some intense conversations etc. But I can say confidently that we both have MUCH more clearly defined boundaries now. My wife understands the affair is 100% hers to own. She also knows how much pain it caused and is focused on slowly rebuilding trust and our relationship.

After about 6 weeks or so, she moved back into our bedroom. I am also happy to report that our sex life is much better. We are back to a more regular engagements, but also into really enjoying each other again. The HB phase was kind of nuts, we definitely didn't understand what was happening there. I'll never look at our laundry room the same way. :rofl:

Interestingly, she has also brought up the trip to Thailand during our R process (about 6 months in). She told me she wanted to come 100% clean on it. She said that the truth was the group had gone out, but that she had invited that guy back to her room. Wasn't sure what she was thinking, but was drunk. He came in, they kissed for a while, had a few drinks, kissed some more and then she got cold feet and said he should probably head back to his room. This was hard to hear, but I appreciated her bringing it up and wanting to address it. I also give her props because she referred to this kissing incident as her first physical affair. She owns it as such.

It's been a year. A year full of ups and downs, good days and bad. Some days I am in a good place, some days a pretty dark place. R is a grueling process of relentless work. But thankfully, my wife is 100% committed to it as well. So on the days I am down, she helps pick me up and keeps us moving forward. She knows how close we came to it all ending, and she has told me in many ways it has made each day together since a treasure she appreciates more. She knows that each of these days is a gift from me to her that she needs to cherish and appreciate (her words, not mine). 

We both feel that R is a continual process that never really ends. Our hope is that it requires a little less conscious effort and sacrifice over time. We will not take each other for granted again. We clearly understand the boundaries, and watch for any threat to them. We will never blindly trust again. That last one is a good thing, and a bad thing.

So I hope this was in some way informative. Probably not the right post to do it in. But I thought sharing my story and subsequent R to date would be good for me, if for no one else.

So thanks for listening!


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

Wow. You and I both did *almost* everything we were 'supposed' to all on our own. I also demanded to know everything on D day - I kept saying "AND?????" angrily every time he told me one more thing.

Glad to hear you're in a better place today!


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## LetDownNTX (Oct 4, 2012)

That was a story....wish I would have had a bottle of wine to sip on while I read it. 

Good job on doing what you were supposed to do and not even knowing it. Even when you know exactly what you should do its hard to follow through when you're "in" it! Always black and white when you're on the outside. Totally gray when you're in the middle of it!

Good luck! You've done well over the last year!


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd suggest a polygraph. It's not normal for your wife to be so uninterested in sex for YEARS and years before children. 

That tells me this isn't her first rodeo, just the one you clued into. 

I'm sorry, but I think she's been getting sex elsewhere for a LONG time. That explains the lack of interest in sex with you and her fight picking. She's a cake eater. 

You handled yourself very admirably. I just think your wife has greater secrets than you know about.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> I told him that he was never to try and contact my wife again. I explained that if he saw on her on the sidewalk coming towards him, he better cross the street. I then explained that my family farms, outside of the city. And that when I was a kid, we would go hunting out on these large tracks of desolate land. And I told him we always had to be really careful not to drop anything (cell phones etc) because there was no chance you would ever find it again if you dropped it. I explained that even large items would never be found out there, even if people were looking for them. And then I reminded him that many times in these situations, spouses can react very violently and that I was working really hard to control my rage. But that any future contact would make it mush more difficult to control that anger.
> 
> The above paragraph isn't my finest hour, but if I caused him to fear for his safety a bit, I won't lose any sleep. The part that I regret is what I did next.
> 
> ...


While I agree you probably should have just gone directly to his wife, I think what you did to this turd was a beautiful thing. Think about it, the had to get to his wife and explain this before you did. He had to tell her I been fvcking some guys wife and now he is going to call you and tell you. Her reaction was probably her own defense mechanism coming into place. She could have been pissed at you too because you busted her bubble.

How did your wife react to the conditions you put into place like No more traveling, for at least a year and the Full transparency. Did she fully comply? Were there setbacks?


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Ask her for an one sided open marriage for the length of time she had an affair and watch her react...

All this time she wouldn't have sex with you and....^%##%

Ok, I'll stop here before I get banned..


And I agree with chumplady...This might not be her first rodeo. She confessed about Thailand because she probably knew you were already suspicious about it..

If a woman was ready to cheat on you and make fun of you behind her back, lying about it is no big deal..

Did you recover the conversations between them ? Or did you ignore them because you already knew the worst..

Looking at the conversations between them gives you an actual insight of the mind of the cheater and every step she took to make it happen instead of wrapping her infidelity under one big "My wife cheated of me for so many number of months"


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

chumplady said:


> I'd suggest a polygraph. It's not normal for your wife to be so uninterested in sex for YEARS and years before children.
> 
> That tells me this isn't her first rodeo, just the one you clued into.
> 
> ...


I agree. I think your wife has been cheating on you for years. I'm almost certain. Airline employees have some of the highest percentages of affairs and divorce, as compared to other jobs.


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## Michie (Aug 26, 2012)

Chump lady is a hard audience lol
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

I'd also add -- when she's suddenly hot for you? That tells me she can turn it on and turn it off. Whatever her "problem" before, it can suddenly disappear when she thinks her cake supply is drying up. 

She's manipulating you with sex. And she's perfectly okay with withholding sex and cheating on you.

You've got bigger problems than you know. I'm sorry. I know this truly sucks.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

The Middleman said:


> While I agree you probably should have just gone directly to his wife, I think what you did to this turd was a beautiful thing. Think about it, the had to get to his wife and explain this before you did. *He had to tell her I been fvcking some guys wife and now he is going to call you and tell you.* Her reaction was probably her own defense mechanism coming into place. She could have been pissed at you too because you busted her bubble.
> 
> How did your wife react to the conditions you put into place like No more traveling, for at least a year and the Full transparency. Did she fully comply? Were there setbacks?


Honesty from this scum? Doubtful

More likely he told her "_*for some reason this couple i know is having marital problems. He abuses her.When she asked for advise I told her to divorce him. Wouldn't you know it? He found out and is pissed at me. Wouldn't be surprised if he calls you venting. Be careful and don't get involved, I wish I hadn't"*_

So, she blew him off and told wayward hub as he gleefully chuckled. 

But I'm fairly sure he had clenched butt cheeks for a few weeks after thinking about the 'vast farm fields where "_things can get lost_" classic!

Maybe now is the time for wife to pen a hand written letter of apology and confession to xOMW and have hubby post it.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

chumplady said:


> I'd also add -- when she's suddenly hot for you? That tells me she can turn it on and turn it off. Whatever her "problem" before, it can suddenly disappear when she thinks her cake supply is drying up.
> 
> She's manipulating you with sex. And she's perfectly okay with withholding sex and cheating on you.
> 
> You've got bigger problems than you know. I'm sorry. I know this truly sucks.


Okay in part 3 two babies just pop up in a sexless marriage? This is what you said-sigh-get the kids DNA tested for your own peace of mind PLUS to see your wife's reaction.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

I tested my d 2 years back just to show her I couldn't believe a word she said, she is mine though.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

Hi NH2ME, RIGHT?
Glad to hear the full story.

For one time I disagree with chump, the line of reasoning. It's obvious the sexless marriage, specially before the kids, is suspicious. Something to think hard and to be adressed. Have you asked her why? Why did she refuse to adress it? For years?

But If I've read this well while the affair was ongoing is when the marriage sex returned too, finnaly. It's very common, at least at the beginning of affairs. A double edged sword if you ask me. But if we follow the train of thoughts of chump and she was cheating regulary on you years ago you should be able to connect the dots with sudden sexual peaks in the marriage. Can you?


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

chumplady said:


> I'd also add -- when she's suddenly hot for you? That tells me she can turn it on and turn it off. Whatever her "problem" before, it can suddenly disappear when she thinks her cake supply is drying up.
> 
> She's manipulating you with sex. And she's perfectly okay with withholding sex and cheating on you.
> 
> You've got bigger problems than you know. I'm sorry. I know this truly sucks.


:iagree: I mean consider his wife's strict catholic parents reaction.

*Interestingly, her parents were very disappointed in her behavior and supportive of me not leaving. But they also quickly talked about all of the stress we both have at work and that sometimes that can result in not being focused on each other etc. I don't disagree with what they were saying, but listening to her parents blameshift was surprising.*


As a minimum it sugest they some how ,known it/suspected it.

OP

And look at this aswell. The two times OP knows she cheated. He was allways invited, but could not join. Due to commitment. Which 
Im prytty sure she most have known about it some how. It just seem's way of to me


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

"After about 6 weeks or so, she moved back into our bedroom.'

It is too early of you to forgive her. Why did you tolerate so many years of sexless marriage? Why are you so willing to get her back? 

Please take a hard look of your wife and yourself. Your wife seems much more complicated than you and she can easily manipulate you. You was played. Are you still be played now?


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

chumplady said:


> I'd also add -- when she's suddenly hot for you? That tells me she can turn it on and turn it off. Whatever her "problem" before, it can suddenly disappear when she thinks her cake supply is drying up.
> 
> She's manipulating you with sex. And she's perfectly okay with withholding sex and cheating on you.
> 
> You've got bigger problems than you know. I'm sorry. I know this truly sucks.


And who knows what those problems really are. Lots of possibilities, things beyond imagination. Some form of therapy is needed for her to explore this.

For my wife it was child sex abuse. Strangely, illogically, CSA is a high risk factor in a person's history for them to become a cheater.

There is something in OP's wife's history which is the cause of a sexless marriage, two affairs, and now easy sexuality with OP.

The other possibility is she was always sexual, just not with OP. Resolution is needed or this is going to rear back up to bite OP in the backside again.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

Maybe I'm just naive. I didn't see any issues. None at all. 
(Post affair that is). Her actions, her parents actions (even OMW actions) all understandable. Go figure!


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

[
About a year and a half later, we decide to buy a house and start a family. So we move, and then get down to some baby makin! Now for a guy in a sexless marriage, this seems like a very good opportunity. Except for one thing, apparently my wife and I are the two most fertile people in the world. We decide to give it a shot, and boom!, bun in the oven right out of the gate. 9 months later, our daughter is born. Life is good.

Another two years go by, and we decide our daughter needs a sibling. And we always wanted at least two. So we decide to go again. And yes, boom!, bun in the oven right out of the gate again. 9 months later we have a beautiful son. 



Are you sure she wasn't cheating back then? You can DNA test the kids from the privacy of your own home and it is not a bank breaker, difficult, or painful at all. Spend a few minutes on Google and you'll have several kits that you can order online for paternity testing. You do not need your wife to participate if she refuses in the DNA test. It is best if she does, but not a requirement. PM me if you need some help finding an option. I have used the process myself. It is quite simple. 

I wish you well, good luck

WD


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

workindad said:


> Are you sure she wasn't cheating back then? You can DNA test the kids from the privacy of your own home and it is not a bank breaker, difficult, or painful at all. Spend a few minutes on Google and you'll have several kits that you can order online for paternity testing. You do not need your wife to participate if she refuses in the DNA test. It is best if she does, but not a requirement. PM me if you need some help finding an option. I have used the process myself. It is quite simple.
> 
> I wish you well, good luck
> 
> WD


Exactly. Your wife is not a robot. She suddenly doesnt love sex, then not love sex, and then suddenly want sex..etc.. She was getting her needs met in another way. She just didn't want sex with you during those dry spells. And she only seemed to be having it with you just to tag you in the marriage. She travels extensively for work. I think without a doubt your wife has been cheating on you for a very long time. Think about all those times you had no idea what she was doing or when she was away from you for days. If she is meeting with male coworkers and spending time with them and away from you for extended periods of time, combine that with some alcohol and....it's not good for your marriage


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## 67flh (Sep 26, 2011)

i got a problem with BOOM pregnant twice in a row,i think she KNEW she was preggo.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

You guys are makin me uneasy now.
Maybe I am naive. 

NEVERHAPPEN doesn't seem naive. Seems level headed. Didn't rug sweep. Confronted head-on and ready to pull the plug. Out of all of us who knows his wife best?

There are lots, and I mean MOST of the other thread-starting posters who by their posts give themselves away as blinded by betrayal. 

Just didnt get that from NEVERHAPPEN


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

But there are signs in the beginning that most people just don't think about. One of the biggest red flags for affairs is a sexless marriage. But if you never believe your spouse would cheat on you, of course you will just rationalize that they don't like sex.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

There are more hidden stories, dude.


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## dogman (Jul 24, 2012)

FalconKing said:


> Exactly. Your wife is not a robot. She suddenly doesnt love sex, then not love sex, and then suddenly want sex..etc.. She was getting her needs met in another way. She just didn't want sex with you during those dry spells. And she only seemed to be having it with you just to tag you in the marriage. She travels extensively for work. I think without a doubt your wife has been cheating on you for a very long time. Think about all those times you had no idea what she was doing or when she was away from you for days. If she is meeting with male coworkers and spending time with them and away from you for extended periods of time, combine that with some alcohol and....it's not good for your marriage



This is the worst case scenario. I don't think this is the case though. Usually there is an escalation of inappropriate behavior, like the testing of the waters in Thailand. If she was already having full blown sex before that Thailand would have been different.

Of course she might not be honest about Thailand, and many times the kissing involves oral sex as the precursor. Would she admit all of this? Only the OP can tell. And only she knows the real truth.

Maybe she admitted to all she can handle admitting to. The rest will die with her.

And if more happened does it really matter anyway?


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

dogman said:


> This is the worst case scenario. I don't think this is the case though. Usually there is an escalation of inappropriate behavior, like the testing of the waters in Thailand. If she was already having full blown sex before that Thailand would have been different.
> 
> Of course she might not be honest about Thailand, and many times the kissing involves oral sex as the precursor. Would she admit all of this? Only the OP can tell. And only she knows the real truth.
> 
> ...


Well it matters IMO because the whole marriage could have been built on lie upon lies. And the level of deception could have made a fool of him. It's just the magnitude of it. If it's true.


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## Remains (Jan 24, 2012)

Acabado said:


> Hi NH2ME, RIGHT?
> Glad to hear the full story.
> 
> For one time I disagree with chump, the line of reasoning. It's obvious the sexless marriage, specially before the kids, is suspicious. Something to think hard and to be adressed. Have you asked her why? Why did she refuse to adress it? For years?
> ...


I agree with the above. I also disagree with chumplady. Yes, you should be able to connect the dots with peaks in sexual interest. And even if there were peaks, it wouldn't necessarily indicate a definite affair. Maybe just someone of interest and so the interest in sex peaks with OP.

I don't think that a sexless marriage is something suspicious. It is something of concern. As someone above posts, there are many reasons. Child abuse can create problems. So can contraception. For example the depo provera injection can reduce sex drive to zero. Hormones (many contraceptions, the pill, the hormonal coil, use them) can have huge adverse effects on the body.



67flh said:


> i got a problem with BOOM pregnant twice in a row,i think she KNEW she was preggo.


This can happen! It happened to me. Second pregnancy was just the one time. 

NB Having had problems and issues with contraception (hormonal) I stopped using any and used the pull out method for many years, 17 to be exact. This worked completely for me. I am very fertile. The one time we did not use that method and stayed the duration, I was pregnant.



dogman said:


> This is the worst case scenario. I don't think this is the case though. Usually there is an escalation of inappropriate behavior, like the testing of the waters in Thailand. If she was already having full blown sex before that Thailand would have been different.


I fully agree. Thailand was most likely (if there are no other huge red flags) the beginning, and the affair was the escalation.

Though I guess there could have been inappropriate flirting with certain individuals as a run up to the escalation of Thailand where she went so far as inviting someone to her hotel room.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Few more questions. 


Was there any change in her behavior during the affair ? 

Why was she more happy during the affair ? How did she become a better mother and wife during it ?

And dreaded question: Did she do stuff with the OM that she denied you in the marriage?

How are you sure she did not minimize the details of the affair ? DID you verify by independent means ?

How did you get the OM wife's phone number ?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I think when wayward comes clean, knowing there is no way the betrayed will never find out it is a sign that the wayward is getting this monkey off there back. Hell why bother right....but no the wayward comes clean with the crap the betrayed would otherwise never know about.


This coming from the guy that caught his wife wife a guy only to find out by her that he was #20 in a 13 year long period.

I mean did my old lady need to go there? NO I wouldn't have known any different, but she did.

So I have to believe that OP's fWW has told him evrything! I think with true and real remorse it's something the waywards wants to do.

Sure this thread and my thread are rare, and yes most waywards are half @ss remorseful, and yes this infidelity crap is one big iceberg, but I have to say there are these rare cases were the wayward wants this monkey off there back once and for all knowing or not what the consequences will be.


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

I imagine the responses have put OP again "there" in full paranoia mode, limbo hell, doubting everything, including children's paternity. I hope you find a way out of "it", no matter how. 


warlock07 said:


> Why was she more happy during the affair ? How did she become a better mother and wife during it?


This rationalization is sooo common. It's self explanatory. Mom/wife is happy, she feels alive, the intensity is mistaken with being plugged, with intimathy, therefore she becomes a better mom/wife.
It stems from a victim/martyr mentality, she already stated she was sick/stuck in the "role" of abused employee, neglected wife, sacrified mom for sooo many years. Shockingly they are choices she made, choices every healthy wife would consider the epitome of happyness, a job, a supportive husband and happy children are not enough. Can you say seflcenteredness? Can you say entitlement? They "needed" the excitement, the romance, the trill of the double life. I'm sure she believes she was more authentic while in the affair, more herself, so she felt more a giver. Why don't share her happyness with her loved ones?
She finnaly had something only for her what made her so happy. In exchange for the robbing she felt compeled to give more to the marraige. Sorta compensation. The fact it's all fake, built on deceit, a facade is irrelevant, conveniently ignored while the delusion is embraced. A mix of defense mechanisms at play simultaneously. Complete delusion.
Waywards though process always amazes me. It's an example of how I get the fog rather the infatuation piece.

It's not rare to read this kind of thinking proess in books and magazines. I'm sure many ICs encourage affairs to improve marriages. It's basically the basis for "open marriages", right?

I remember a story of a wife (psychologist) who had a torrid 4yrs long affair with his husband's subordinate/her coworker. The affair was discovered a couple of years after it ended by an unsent love letter. She was still completely delusional singing the wonders of the triangle, how she become the best wife in the world, helped her to know and love her husband better. Even years after the divorce she was angryly claiming her XBH was an ungrateful a$$hole for not acknowledging that warped racionalization. The story is probable still there in the indifelity site I read it.


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Is OP around?


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

I am indeed around. Haven't been logged in since yesterday, so just got a chance to read and catch up. We are actually getting ready to meet some friends for a concert, but wanted to answer a few questions. 

First off, I appreciate everyone's concern about my kiddos. But let me set that record straight. My wife had been ready for kids for quite some time both times. I was the one that decided to "go for it". So the timing was truly dictated by my being ready to make the plunge. Secondly, my two kids are my exact clones. Trust me when I say there is zero doubt. If I had any ANY doubt, I wouldn't hesitate to get DNA tested, but I am 100% confident.

I get where people are coming from about assuming my wife has been unfaithful many many times before etc. But I also believe strongly that when we find ourselves on this site, it is often in an "assume the worst at all times" mindset. And I also want to point out that being that this is my life, my marriage and my wife, I am confident that I have access to more information from which to make my judgements and decisions. Don't get my wrong, I think this site is extremely valuable in helping people ask themselves the tough questions. But I think we should all be careful when we presume to know so much more that the OP. 

I don't want to get into details here, but there are some underlying issues around my wife's lack of sexual interest in the past. And this is something we have discussed extensively and now both understand and are working through. So yes, there were other issues at play as many of you wondered, but nothing so dark as dozens of affairs etc. 

As for how I uncovered the details surrounding the affair, my wife recovered all of her deleted emails and we went through them together. It was really tough for both of us, I assure you. She also went back through her calendar and mapped out each time they had gotten together for lunch, dinner and doing the deed. I mapped this back against credit cards etc and all matched. Is this full proof? No. But short of a time machine and anda PI, not much I can do.

I was able to find the OMW very easily actually. I had his name from day one, so I googled his name and city. Found his house info (address, prices, purchase date, home phone and his wife's name). I then looked up her info on google, found her linked in page and had the company name etc. So I just called the office, asked for her and was put through to her extension. I wanted to call her at work so I avoided him planting a female friend at the house.

Also wanted to clarify that my wife doesn't travel all the time. She works in airline management, out of a normal office building. She travelled maybe once or twice a year for 2 or 3 days at a time. So while we all have plenty of opportunity to cross that line, she was not constantly on the road and way from me. 

Her behavior changed DRAMATICALLY during the affair. Enough so that she was rapidly becoming another person. This is part of the reason why I have confidence she has indeed been honest with me on her transgressions. As a couple of you pointed out, this was never a cycle of behavior. She was pretty consistent before the affair and then BAM all things changed.

Lastly, this thread has not spun me back to a low. I learned long ago that strength and confidence come from within. We need to go through this life with eyes open and challenge ourselves to see the world honestly. I do not assume my wife is perfect from this day forward. But I know how hard she is working on us, how much she has gone through and willingly suffered over the last year. I continue to keep my eyes open and take it a day at a time.

Before the affair, I was under the impression that we didn't need define the boundaries of our relationship, that they were implied. I know better now. And the boundaries have been clearly set, and the ramifications of crossing them has been very clearly set as well. Armed with that, we now work hard each day and continue to evaluate and push ourselves. It's all we can do. It's that or give up and move on. I believe thre is too much here to move on if we are both willing to commit to the hard work.

Gotta head out. Thanks all, and let the second round of flaming begin!!!


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

Well, I won't post my usual 'in-your-face' style approach, because you have your happiness, and as long as you have that, no man has the right to take that away from you. 

But I do wonder, and have to ask:
What was she thinking when she said the affair made her feel like a better mother and wife? WAs that the fog talking, or her being honest? Because if it was...WOW. 

Why did she not have the sex drive for you, but she did for the OM? 

And did you consider the possible outcomes of taking back a woman that sounds like a serial cheater? 
Because honestly, most people would probably say you are either really loving or really stupid for taking one back.


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## DavidWYoung (Feb 3, 2012)

Well, Good Luck and I am happy for your sucess!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> I am indeed around. Haven't been logged in since yesterday, so just got a chance to read and catch up. We are actually getting ready to meet some friends for a concert, but wanted to answer a few questions.
> 
> First off, I appreciate everyone's concern about my kiddos. But let me set that record straight. My wife had been ready for kids for quite some time both times. I was the one that decided to "go for it". So the timing was truly dictated by my being ready to make the plunge. Secondly, my two kids are my exact clones. Trust me when I say there is zero doubt. If I had any ANY doubt, I wouldn't hesitate to get DNA tested, but I am 100% confident.
> 
> ...



The bolded part was my point. Exaclty as my wife. She's bassicaly incapable of compartimentalize. In my case was the oipposite, the marriage was fine before the affair. went to hell once she started the cheating. The change was also dramatic.
I was just naive enough to put it on the vague "depression, need a break" so I decided to care for her and the childrens and give her a break.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Broken at 20, fair questions. Here is my best shot at answering them.

Being a better mom and wife during affair, TOTAL FOG, and she owns it. She still talks about messed up it was that she was able to sell herself on this line of thinking. She knows it was a lie to herself to enable the behavior. She knows she abandoned me, and our children during the affair. She knows she was the worst kind of wife and mother during the affair, being 100% selfish and refusing to own the damage she was inflicting. She knows well that this was her operating in the fog.

As for having desires for the POSOM and not for me, that one still hurts to this day. Through over a year of tough MC sessions and our own work we have uncovered a lot around this. I will try to keep it as simple as I can. As I had explained previously, my wife found herself struggling with all of the pressures and responsibilities of being a mother, a wife, a successful career woman etc. She had spent the last 10 years chasing what she had been told would make her successful and happy in life: graduate from college, get a successful career, marry a great guy, buy a house and have kids. She expected each step to suddenly deliver the Disney perfect happily ever after feeling. But she was surprised to learn that each of these steps was adding work, stress and their own set of problems. She kept expecting this feeling of happiness to emerge from an outside source. Through a lot of personal discovery and work, she now understands that happiness comes from within. Taking the time to enjoy the moments in the present, not to focus on the coming stresses of the bedtime routine with kids, or the meetings at work the next day. She has learned that you don't have to lose yourself in these roles. That you can actually find yourself in them. Trust me, there were depression issues at work during the years leading up to the affair. And in all of this, she began to resent me as the source of many of these stresses. I was the husband and father that expected her to "play these roles". In her depression, I began to embody the frustrations and disappointments she had with her life. Tough to find that sexy. 

The POSOM, on the other hand, represented a total break from all of it. All she saw in his eyes was the reflection of herself. Not mom. Not wife, not an under appreciated employee, just her as an individual. This is a common perception in affairs, and one of the top drivers of it. Total fog and total BS, but the feeling most WW and WH have. Unfortunately, this is also the exact ploy that many men who target WW tap into. 

As for taking back a serial cheater, it is a tough pill to swallow. I do believe that she crossed a line in Thailand very clearly. A line that made it easier to escalate to a total PA the next time around. But I do not believe that any person should be judged for the rest of their lives based on a bad decision. I am making the decisions now out of love, not out of stupidity. Stupidity would be to blindly go forward with the assumption all will be fine and it could never happen again. Trust me when I say I am not going forward blindly. 

The other night she said something to me that summarized this nicely. She said she will never be able to fully comprehend how I could show her the most love when she deserved it the least. And she told me she is ready to spend the rest of her life earning that incredibly generous act one day at a time. So we do, one day at a time.


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## walkonmars (Aug 21, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> The other night she said something to me that summarized this nicely. *She said she will never be able to fully comprehend how I could show her the most love when she deserved it the least. *And *she told me she is ready to spend the rest of her life earning that incredibly generous act one day at a time. So we do, one day at a time.*


:iagree::smthumbup:


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Acabado said:


> I remember a story of a wife (psychologist) who had a torrid 4yrs long affair with his husband's subordinate/her coworker. The affair was discovered a couple of years after it ended by an unsent love letter. She was still completely delusional singing the wonders of the triangle, how she become the best wife in the world, helped her to know and love her husband better. Even years after the divorce she was angryly claiming her XBH was an ungrateful a$$hole for not acknowledging that warped racionalization. The story is probable still there in the indifelity site I read it.


Was it CouplesInTrouble? I remember that same story. I think the guy actually showed the wife his thread and she was bitter and said something like how she could have convinced him not to divorce had he not come to that site.


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## Jonesey (Jul 11, 2011)

FalconKing said:


> Was it CouplesInTrouble? I remember that same story. I think the guy actually showed the wife his thread and she was bitter and said something like how she could have convinced him not to divorce had he not come to that site.


Was it the couple, where the wife and OM went to couple couple counsling?


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## FalconKing (Aug 8, 2012)

Sorry, I think we're threadjacking and the mods may delete this. I don't think that's the one though Jonesey.

OP things seem to be going well for you and I guess you are happy with the progress. I just think you had to deal with so much...too much..to think these were the only instances of her infidelity. If you have no desire to delve deeper, I respect that.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey trust and verify my friend, good luck!


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

sorry for the t/j NEVER HAPPEN 2 
FalconKing, yep, it's the same story, although when ut was posted the site still was infidelity dot com, the old name). The guy even posted the wife's delusional letter/journal/smoking gun.
End of t/j


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> But I think we should all be careful when we presume to know so much more that the OP.


You might be right in your case but you should read some of the theads on TAM...You will be surprised on how naive and gullible some BS are..


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey Never

Your wife is one lucky woman!

And you handled everything well.

One multi part question though:

Did you ever speak to OMW again? Do you think she truly understands that her H was having an EA/PA with your wife?
Or do you think he covered it up successfully?

HM64


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

You need to follow through with the OMW. 

I recommend taking all the evidence you have, along with a written note by your wife and mailing it to the OMW. Snail mail. do not put your name/address on it, but send it to her.

Clearly the OM didn't tell his wife about the A. He told his wife that a nut job was spreading lies about him and trying to hurt him. That nut job might call her and she needs to get rid of him.

Now that the dust has settled, send the OMW the deails.

--

After reading your story, I'm very afraid for your future. You've had a year where your wife didn't do the travel and put more effort into the relationship. 

Kind of like that night she took you to the hotel to throw some sex at you and make you think nothing was going on.

You've basically had a year of that hotel night.

But going into the future, it's obvious that she can never be allowed/trusted to go on another of those long foreign trips, AND especially not going out drinking with the crowd. She gets a few in her, she starts throwing herself at the nearest guy, and she's in a room with him.

All the stuff you wrote about her discovery and what matters to her is all fine and good. But it's also a nice intellectual rationalization on why she chose to do a bad thing, but she isn't a bad person. In the end it won't stop her from doing it again, all it really does it help her not feel bad about herself.

Nothing you wrote said anything about what is going to stop her from doing it again and again. What's going to stop her from jumping right back into the grove and accepting that trip, and accepting the night out with the group, and accepting another man into her bed?

Are you going to be going on each and every trip?

You've had a year of special nights in the hotel to mollify you and assuage her guilt.

But what of the future?


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

HappyMan64 and Shaggy:

I haven't tried recontacting the OMW since my first failed attempt. It appears he very successfully gas-lit his way out. I do not think she has any idea that he was sleeping with my wife. If I had to guess, he told her he had a female friend from work with a crazy husband that was convinced something inappropriate was happening etc. . . .

I have thought about attempting to notify her again, but am a bit torn. First off, if on the outside chance she did know, and her way of dealing was to not deal, I feel like an A-hole contacting her again after specifically being told never to do so. Plus, she was uber-aggressive when I called her, don't really want her pursuing a restraining order against the "crazy stalker guy that keeps calling after I told him not to."

And to be honest, I am not eager to reintroduce any part of POSOM's life back into ours. Worried that by contacting his wife and spilling the beans, he is going to, in turn, reach out to my wife "(tell your husband to quit f'ing up my life" kind of a thing). 

But on the flip side, I do know she deserves to know the truth, and he CERTAINLY deserves to have a wife that knows the truth.  Trust me, I have fantasized about nuking this guy's life many times. Being that his company hosted the conference in Europe, he was the one who took the group out and was buying them drinks (including my wife). So I am pretty sure that I could get him fired as he slept with a CLIENT of his company (who happened to be married) after GETTING HER DRUNK with the COMPANY EXPENSE ACCOUNT. He then carried on a 4 month affair with said client, using his expense account for various dinners, lunches and drinks along the way. 

But at this point, I just don't think I want to introduce the drama of a pissed off xAP and perhaps a pissed off xAPW. After the last year we have had, less drama seems like a good thing. Keeps us focused on us.

Shaggy - you hit the nail on the head, in terms of what keeps me up at night. What is going to stop this from ever happening again? That's the question that that we WS have to deal with each and every day. I mean if the best indicator for future behavior is past behavior, then WTF are we to do?

The truth is, there is no absolute way to know it won't happen again. But the simple fact is there is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. Yes, my wife crossed the line. Twice. And she could do it again. Or I could. Fact is, anyone who is certain their spouse could never do that to them is on a VERY dangerous path.

But what my wife and I have done is to spend the time understanding what it is she was trying to get out of the affair. Why she felt she had to leave the marriage in order to get that last thing she needed in order to feel complete and validated. And no, this is NO WAY justifies or excuses the affair, but it helps both sides to think about how they can offer their spouse more of what they need.

And we are attacking this issue on two fronts. First off, we are making sure we understand what each other's needs are and then we are working to meet them. No more complacency on this front on either side. 

The other thing we have done is to VERY clearly define the boundaries of our marriage and the repercussions for crossing them. Lunch with a male co-worker or friend and no one else - not OK. Having several drinks in a social setting that doesn't include your husband - not OK. Spending time with a male friend or co-worker who likes to flirt - not OK. Discussing our relationship or building other strong emotional bonds with male co-workers or friends that I don't know - not OK. And she knows that if she crosses any of these (or other) lines, I'm gone. There will be no discussion, no confrontation and no attempt at reconciliation. She knows she will come home to her belongings on the back porch and the locks changed. 

And she probably won't ever go on an international work trip, at least not without me. And not as much so I can "babysit" as she knows how difficult it will be for me. 

Lastly, I want to emphasize the difference between the night in the hotel vs. where we are now. She did use sex as a way to distract me and keep me complacent. And at that time, I was blissfully ignorant to what was going on. But that is not the case now. I am very aware of where and how things can go wrong. And how far they can go. I am aware of the damage my wife is ultimately capable of inflicting. I am diligent and unyielding in my observation and evaluation now, and I think those are huge differences.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Two other quick comments/thoughts.

I left off one of the other requirements I had at D-Day: she had to get a full STD scan and share printed results with me. When she called the OBGYN office, they said it would be 2 or 3 weeks before they could get her in. So I pushed her to go to the local STD health clinic (i.e. the government run facility). This was a very unpleasant experience for her that continued to drive home the "How the fvck did I get here?" reaction as she was coming out of the fog.

I don't mean to sound harsh with this, but I do believe strongly that the more abrupt, jarring and flat out harsh you can make the initial D-Day experience, the faster it forces someone out of the fog. Forcing them to rapidly and completely come to grips with all the negative aspects of the affair snaps them back into reality very quickly.

I cannot recommend enough that people consider demanding the WS sit face to face with their parents and/or in-law parents to tell them what they have done. Nothing makes it real faster, and nothing forces the WS to accept the ugliness of what they have done faster. 

In the affair, they are convinced it is passionate, romantic, exciting and thrilling. That dies pretty damn quickly when their parents are looking at them in disbelief, shaking their heads and tearing up.

Obviously this only works in scenarios where there is a good relationship between WS and parents/in-laws. And if you have parents/in-laws that are decent people to begin with.


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## Broken at 20 (Sep 25, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> In the affair, they are convinced it is passionate, romantic, exciting and thrilling. That dies pretty damn quickly when their parents are looking at them in disbelief, shaking their heads and tearing up.


Depends on the person. 

Some have their head so far up their ass, they have no idea who they are hurting, what they are doing, or how stupid they look to everyone around them. 

Some hold onto the dream that they'll run off with their AP. Thinking it will happen. Somehow. Magically. Because fate is on their side, and they are soul mates...bleh,

My opinion is, if you two were soul mates, you would've met BEFORE you were married.


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## chumplady (Jul 27, 2012)

> It appears he very successfully gas-lit his way out.


And how do you know your wife hasn't done that to you?

Look, you sound like a really together guy. Very articulate, doing all the right things to R. 

I just remain highly suspicious of your wife's lack of sex for YEARS. Whatever issues she had -- voila, she has affairs and she gets her groove back. 

It's great that your setting boundaries with her. I hope that in all your MC and IC, you'll examine why you allowed yourself to accept so little in this relationship. She's clearly very okay taking what she wants -- I'm not buying the poor, overworked sausage excuse. You on the other hand, seem way too giving. Not beating you up -- note my moniker "chump" lady. That was me once too. 

Her acting very differently in the affair? I don't know if I'm buying it. To not have sex with your husband for YEARS is whack. That's pretty "different" in my book. What changed, it seems to me, is that "groove."

I just don't think you've got the whole story. I'm glad you're confident and positive moving forward -- just be open to the idea that there may be more to discover and process.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

chumplady said:


> And how do you know your wife hasn't done that to you?
> 
> Look, you sound like a really together guy. Very articulate, doing all the right things to R.
> 
> ...


It may be time for a new job also if she will still be corresponding with the om. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.


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## Memento (Aug 23, 2012)

You remind me of me, not because of your story, but because you come up with these jokes about your dramas. I used to do the same. When I talked to people about my problems it almost seemed like I was telling them a joke. I even laughed about it. Till one day, someone listened and asked me why was I laughing. It was laughing matter. Those words hit me like a tone of bricks and I started to cry. That day was my first step to accepting and healing.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Tom67

So he is a consultant that worked with her on a couple of projects 2 years ago. They never really interacted frequently before the affair. When he is in town, he is actually set up in a different building. 

If she was interacting with him at all, I would force the issue. 100% agree with you. If someone has an affair with an individual they see at work, time for a new job!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Why doesn't your wife expose the affair to OMW?

What will keep OM from preying on your wife again with out this kind of consequences?

This kind of action from your fWW will clarly show the OM that is over for good. An Action on your wifes part that will surly piss off the OM and have a long lasting dislike for your wife.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

That's cool never. Sounds like you got your sh## together just trust and verify for awhile


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> Trust me, I have fantasized about nuking this guy's life many times. Being that his company hosted the conference in Europe, he was the one who took the group out and was buying them drinks (including my wife). So I am pretty sure that I could get him fired as he slept with a CLIENT of his company (who happened to be married) after GETTING HER DRUNK with the COMPANY EXPENSE ACCOUNT. He then carried on a 4 month affair with said client, using his expense account for various dinners, lunches and drinks along the way.


What the hell are you waiting for ? Nuke this piece of ****!! What are you waiting for ?

What if he contacts your wife back ? You don't want a wife that you could lose so easily either!!



> And to be honest, I am not eager to reintroduce any part of POSOM's life back into ours. Worried that by contacting his wife and spilling the beans, he is going to, in turn, reach out to my wife "(tell your husband to quit f'ing up my life" kind of a thing).


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

OP, do you still feel resentment for what she did ? After all the years of denying and making you feel bad about it ?


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

I do still have resentment, but less intense and less frequent these days. I still get angry sometimes, when I think about all that she did without ever thinking about me and our family. 

I struggle with how the generous and loving person I had fallen in love with could become this selfish monster that was only focused on fulfilling her own needs at any cost. But I also see her working every day to try and right her wrongs and prove to me how she can make it up.

One of my biggest challenges is being honest with myself when I am feeling that resentment and anger. I tend to not own it, which allows it to build and eventually boil over into a rage. I usually end up launching some sort of attack against my wife. But she works really hard to not put up the defensive walls, to be patient and listen through the rage to figure out what the underlying immediate issue is. It's not a fun job for her, but it's one she has accepted.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

It sound like your wife and my wife have the same job.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Never

Your posts make a lot of sense. But I have to point out one thing to you.



> The truth is, there is no absolute way to know it won't happen again. But the simple fact is there is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. Yes, my wife crossed the line. Twice. And she could do it again. *Or I could.* Fact is, anyone who is certain their spouse could never do that to them is on a VERY dangerous path.


Your speaking from a point of view of having been cheated on by your wife.

I got screwed over when very young. Luckily no kids involved.

But I knew from that life changing event the qualities I truly appreciated in a woman.

Love: Check
Respect: Check
Honesty: Check

But the biggest qualities that I looked for in my wife were self esteem and self respect. Your posts clearly show you have those qualities as well.

So be careful saying anyone can cheat. You did not and never would or you wouldn't be here. Many of us would not be here if we really thought we could or would forsake our vows for a little fun or piece of azz.

My wife was hit on at a wedding this weekend and was highly offended. 

I cherish the thought that she was offended.

We have 3 daughters. We teach them honesty, loyalty and the difference between right and wrong.

We also make sure they understand consequences.

And both of our parents have been married for over 50 years. We both highly value what our parents think of us as adults and spouses.

You are on the right track. I truly hope your wife's desires in life match yours. If not at least she understands what she will lose.

Never give up your values. Not even for the ones we love.

HM64


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

happyman64 said:


> Never
> 
> Your posts make a lot of sense. But I have to point out one thing to you.
> 
> ...


"So be careful saying anyone can cheat."

Right on. 

"Never give up your values. Not even for the ones we love.'

Perfect.

I was shocked by NH2MR's claim that we all have the potential to cheat. That is demeaning to lots of decent people with Values and Self Esteem. 

It is a fact that NH2MR's wife has shortcoming regarding to value, self respect and honesty. This can not be totally LEARNED. Somehow it is in our personality. Personality seldom changes. Even after the R, she still has Achilles’ heel. But now she realizes the consequence. Hopefully, it will stop her to try again.

Good luck in your marriage. A long way to go. My prayer is with you.


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

Fair points. 

I didn't mean to imply that anyone will cheat given the right circumstances. And I do agree that at the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to self respect and self esteem. 

But I also think that when we tell ourselves "I would never cheat" and dismiss it at that, it can set the stage for a potential problem. Here is why I think that.

When we tell ourselves, "I would never cheat" and believe it to be an absolute impossibility, it leaves us vulnerable. Since it is not a possibility, I don't need to guard against it, think about it or take active steps in my life to avoid it. It will just never happen.

I think we all take active, constant steps, to stay on the right path each and every day. And if we are constantly making the right decisions, that means there is always the ability to make the wrong decision. Maintaining fidelity is a constant process that requires evaluating relationships and situations and proactively managing potential issues before they get too close.

So all I am saying is that one thing this past year has taught me is there is no such thing as certainty in life. I was certain my wife would never betray me that way. I didn't need to think about it, because it wasn't a possibility. Until it was.

So *will *I cheat? No. But I won't cheat because I don't take that for granted. I work to ensure it each and every day.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Now I understand. Thank you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Acabado (May 13, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> Fair points.
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that anyone will cheat given the right circumstances. And I do agree that at the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to self respect and self esteem.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

I always thought it was me the one at risk of cheating. I reinforced my boundaires for that reason. No nothing is impossible anymore.


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## Shaggy (Jul 17, 2011)

I think your wife should expose the affair to the OMW.

As for the OMW thinking you are an *******? So what, why do care way she thinks of you?

Right now the OM is free to try again with your wife and others.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Shaggy said:


> I think your wife should expose the affair to the OMW.
> 
> As for the OMW thinking you are an *******? So what, why do care way she thinks of you?
> 
> Right now the OM is free to try again with your wife and others.


Good idea and she should be more than willing to do it if she is truly remorseful!


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## NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME RIGHT? (Sep 28, 2012)

I like this idea, and plan to approach my wife about it. 

Curious to see the reaction myself. I have a hunch she will a bit apprehensive as she REALLY doesn't want it to get around the office. And I get that. Guessing her only fear will be the possibility of blowing up his marriage somehow leading to events that would create issues at the office etc. But that seems pretty unlikely.

Will likely wait a few days to bring this up as we have had a couple nights of pretty intense conversation already this past week. I unloaded with both barrels a couple of nights ago - one of those nights where I probably wasn't in the right mindset to have the conversation I was pushing for. As a result, she felt pretty (emotionally) beat up yesterday. 

Thanks for the idea guys!


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> I like this idea, and plan to approach my wife about it.
> 
> Curious to see the reaction myself. I have a hunch she will a bit apprehensive as she REALLY doesn't want it to get around the office. And I get that. Guessing her only fear will be the possibility of blowing up his marriage somehow leading to events that would create issues at the office etc. But that seems pretty unlikely.
> 
> ...


Don't get emotional when you ask her just be very calm and matter of fact. Say guess what? I just got a great idea! See how she reacts she should do it no questions asked after all it's to help you heal.


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## loveisforever (Jun 21, 2012)

NEVER HAPPEN 2 ME said:


> Fair points.
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that anyone will cheat given the right circumstances. And I do agree that at the end of the day, a lot of it comes down to self respect and self esteem.
> 
> ...


HH2MR, you can be sure about yourself regarding cheating. But you can not be sure of anyone else, including your wife. Cheating is a very personal choice. You and your wife are very different regarding the potential to cheat. You just can not fully understand her regarding this, even now. Because you are just very different in cheating. I believe by working together with this issue, you will be able to reduce the possibility of future infidelity to a minimum level. Be aware of the fatigue as years goes by, though.


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## Chris Taylor (Jul 22, 2010)

Shaggy said:


> I think your wife should expose the affair to the OMW.
> 
> As for the OMW thinking you are an *******? So what, why do care way she thinks of you?
> 
> Right now the OM is free to try again with your wife and others.


I was curious about the other man's wife's reaction. It certainly sounded like she knew, but it sounds like there were a lot of other things in play.

For example, they may have had an open marriage but their agreement was for him not to play with a married woman. So his "cheating" was not as offensive as you may think.

Or, she may be is a situation (let's say dying of cancer) and your problem isn't her biggest issue to deal with.

You brought it to her attention. She knows. I'd leave it there.


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## heartsickpuppy (Nov 6, 2012)

NH2MR, amazing story, extremely well written and thoughtful. I appreciate you willingness to overcome because you made the commitment. In some crazy way, I feel as though if I give up on my wife, I will let her invalidate my commitment, and I don't want her to take that away. 

Thank god your children are clones of you as mine are of me. I don't think I could have read anymore had you not told us that. This site provides incredible insight, and in stories such as yours... incredible inspiration. I wish people would think things through before they hit submit.

My only 2 cents: don't bother with the bad guys wife (sorry, I don't know all of the lingo just yet), you tried and made an attempt for her benefit. You tried and she clearly had no interest. Obviously this guy is a super douche, but when determining fault for the affair, I would place 99% on your wife, and 1% on him. I think having your wife call on D day might have been great, but at this point, does it really aid in the healing? Could it really prevent him from doing it again? I doubt it, unless his wife happens to be relentless and solid like you. After reading a lot of these stories, you appear to be a rare bread. Let that part go.

Good luck, I think you are on a great path and deserve the best.


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