# Pushed until I told him to leave...and then he RAN FAST!



## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I am dazed and confused....and every other emotion I can think of. 

I thought he was a really good man. I thought he was the type who honored marriage and held it in high regards. I thought he was committed....the list goes on and on....

We were friends and/or dated for a year and a half before getting married. We were married in January 2016. Now...just 9 months later and he is gone ... done ...it's over. He was a thoughtful and kind man. We have both been married before, and I have 3 kids living at home. He was nice to them...a little more demanding than I am. I am a pretty laid back mom.

Through the course of our short marriage things went from really good to absolutely awful. The kids and I could do nothing right in his eyes. The house was always too messy...even if that just meant a cup on the counter. Shortly after getting married he stopped being thoughtful and kind. Everything changed....if any of my family came over, or even one of my 2 older kids who don't live at home...he would hole up in the bedroom and act angry at me. Anything that anybody did wrong was my fault. Then he started going to the store in the evenings when I wanted us to spend time together. He would take an abnormally long time and if I asked what took so long, there would always be a reason...he couldn't find what he needed, or he ended up stopping at another store...or whatever. I asked if he would just please text me and let me know...well then I was accused of being controlling. 


To keep this short....for the last 6 weeks it seems like he has purposely picked fights. They continued to escalate until Labor Day night. He was being so mean...saying everything that he knew would hurt me the most. Then came up with some crazy stuff...saying I am fraudulent, delusional, a liar, an enabler....and on and on. He was talking in this strange mocking voice and cussing and swearing (which I have VERY rarely heard him do). I was asking...telling...begging him to stop fighting with me. Finally I had had it and told him, "If you don't like me and don't want to be here then leave!!" He bolted out of bed, grabbed an armful of stuff and was out the door. AND THEN...he ignored me for a solid week. I texted him once every day with a message that read "Please do not come home when the kids are here unless you are ready to figure our marriage out nicely....without mocking....without name calling." Nothing....for a solid week. When he finally did respond back he said he wanted to come get his stuff "without a hassle". That was Tuesday....it is Thursday and there has been no talk about fixing anything or him coming back. I gave him some of his clothes on Tuesday..even after he was very rude and said I was holding his stuff hostage....blah blah blah. When I asked why he is ending our marriage he said, "I'm not ending our marriage." Explain that!!??

Anyways...I have no idea what is going on ....I just know this sucks and I hurt BAD.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Hi, I am a afraid he either has an affair or a mental disorder. The symptoms can apply to both, but I am not a specialist here.

Both are not good, but you need to find out which it is. You can start asking him about it?


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I asked tonight if there is another woman his reply was, "No, Your imagination and fear are still unchecked and uncontrolled." He hasn't been home in over 10 days now....and THAT is his reply?

He also referred to me as his enemy tonight..... so incredibly hurt....


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

Well, that looks to me like a gas lighting answer. Maybe he projects his anger about his own mental conflict of guilt to you and interest in another woman (or man) on you. It looks a bit familiar.

Cheaters, especially men, want to keep their options open, and you are bringing him in trouble, in his eyes. But as said, for the cheating scenario much more info is needed from you, you need to spy on him.
For the mental illness scenario I can not speak.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

To ask a standard question from the CWI forum: How has your sex life changed over the period you know him? ( I am sorry, but it is a real good indicator)


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

He claims to be a high needs man (aren't most of them!!??) but when he was upset with me he would withhold all affection including sex. The fighting has gotten worse thus the sex has been less. Still it was usually a couple times a week. In the beginning it was as much as we could get it. I have never told him no.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Thinking back though....in the end it was me initiating 95% of the time....


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Does he have any serious complaints (reasonable or not) about you? The bit about cup left out seems like a symptom not a cause. 

He could be suffering from mental illness.

Whatever the cause, I think your are probably better off without him.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

...


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Yes, he has serious complaints about me. His biggest complaint is about my parenting. And it is probably the most valid. I don't punish my kids often. If they do something wrong I usually talk to them and assign them extra chores. Occasionally they get grounded from electronics but for the most part they don't care about video games and tv. My kids are on the outspoken side, a little wild, and very adventurous. I like them that way. And he was well aware of it before marrying me. 

His other complaints about me are non-sense in my opinion...I would love to hear others opinions.... He says I am controlling because I expect him to let me know if he is going to be late getting home. He says I am controlling because I want to know where he is during the day (he is self employed). I don't expect a step by step narrative, but a general idea would be nice...most of the time when I asked what he did that day it was out of general conversation....not some sort of interrogation!


I cannot help but wonder if he does project his issues onto me and my kids. He was allowed to make any mess he wanted (omg you would not believe how much crap he had in our back yard that he was 'working on' and getting ready to sell! It was disgusting and embarrassing!) But then he would be upset about a pair of kids socks in the living room. His stuff was piled on his dresser and in a laundry basket....but everyone else had to have their things put away at all times unless they were using it right that second. He harped on my boys for not finishing projects, but it took him over 6 weeks to do a simple brake job on a car.

In the last big fight he called be fraudulent....I honestly have no idea where that came from...but he has been charged with fraud in the past although he was not criminally convicted.

In the last fight he called me a liar....I try very hard to be honest at all times....but I have caught him in several lies lately.

He said I extort....again, no clue what he is referring to.....really don't know of him extorting anything either though, although it's closely tied to fraud.

Oh my goodness....so many isssues....its really exhausting....


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

He may have some sort of mental issues, if we expand that definition to include personality disorders (borderline personality, etc.).

If he is NOT in an affair (and your description of his behavior sounds more like a mental issue than an affair to me), then it seems like he has developed some sort of resentment towards you. A very deep one. Thus, he developed a hair-trigger sensitivity to any slight at all. 

Do you have ANY idea at all what he is referring to when he says you were "fraudulent, disillusion, liar, enabler"..? It sounds like he believes HE was the victim of a lie or misrepresentation. I'm not saying it has to be a legitimate complaint, but do you have any sense of what wrong (whether it is IN HIS MIND only or not) he suffered? You don't have to agree it is legitimate, just trying to get a sense of where his anger is coming from.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

howdouknow said:


> Yes, he has serious complaints about me. His biggest complaint is about my parenting. And it is probably the most valid. I don't punish my kids often. If they do something wrong I usually talk to them and assign them extra chores. Occasionally they get grounded from electronics but for the most part they don't care about video games and tv. My kids are on the outspoken side, a little wild, and very adventurous. I like them that way. And he was well aware of it before marrying me.
> 
> His other complaints about me are non-sense in my opinion...I would love to hear others opinions.... He says I am controlling because I expect him to let me know if he is going to be late getting home. He says I am controlling because I want to know where he is during the day (he is self employed). I don't expect a step by step narrative, but a general idea would be nice...most of the time when I asked what he did that day it was out of general conversation....not some sort of interrogation!
> 
> ...





Wolfman1968 said:


> He may have some sort of mental issues, if we expand that definition to include personality disorders (borderline personality, etc.).
> 
> If he is NOT in an affair (and your description of his behavior sounds more like a mental issue than an affair to me), then it seems like he has developed some sort of resentment towards you. A very deep one. Thus, he developed a hair-trigger sensitivity to any slight at all.
> 
> Do you have ANY idea at all what he is referring to when he says you were "fraudulent, disillusion, liar, enabler"..? It sounds like he believes HE was the victim of a lie or misrepresentation. I'm not saying it has to be a legitimate complaint, but do you have any sense of what wrong (whether it is IN HIS MIND only or not) he suffered? You don't have to agree it is legitimate, just trying to get a sense of where his anger is coming from.


Oops, OK, you wrote out this post while I was composing my questions to this very issue.


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## Wolfman1968 (Jun 9, 2011)

howdouknow said:


> Yes, he has serious complaints about me. His biggest complaint is about my parenting. And it is probably the most valid. I don't punish my kids often. If they do something wrong I usually talk to them and assign them extra chores. Occasionally they get grounded from electronics but for the most part they don't care about video games and tv. My kids are on the outspoken side, a little wild, and very adventurous. I like them that way. And he was well aware of it before marrying me.
> 
> His other complaints about me are non-sense in my opinion...I would love to hear others opinions.... He says I am controlling because I expect him to let me know if he is going to be late getting home. He says I am controlling because I want to know where he is during the day (he is self employed). I don't expect a step by step narrative, but a general idea would be nice...most of the time when I asked what he did that day it was out of general conversation....not some sort of interrogation!
> 
> ...



You know, as I read this, I wonder if there is ANOTHER DEEPER issue he is angry about, and he is only using these points as a way to lash out at you.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I think he is being unreasonable, maybe mentally unstable, but lets explore more:

How would he punish the kids? What are the things that they do that he thinks deserves punishment. (how old are they?)

Is there a practical reason for wanting to know when he will be home - like having dinner ready? Does he understand that if you don't know, he gets cold food? 

I can see his feeling unhappy with your wanting to know where he is during the day. Why do you want to know? With my wife and I, we call each other if we will be late, but otherwise don't care where the other is during the day. 

His ideas on mess / clutter seem very strange. Does he think of what he is doing as "work" and somehow different from what you are doing???

Fraud? Liar? He gives no indication of where that came from? Its sadly true that dishonest people tend to think that others around them are being dishonest. My father was a fundamentally dishonest man, and he would often accuse me of trying to scam the family out of money - because that is what he would have done in my position. 




howdouknow said:


> Yes, he has serious complaints about me. His biggest complaint is about my parenting. And it is probably the most valid. I don't punish my kids often. If they do something wrong I usually talk to them and assign them extra chores. Occasionally they get grounded from electronics but for the most part they don't care about video games and tv. My kids are on the outspoken side, a little wild, and very adventurous. I like them that way. And he was well aware of it before marrying me.
> 
> His other complaints about me are non-sense in my opinion...I would love to hear others opinions.... He says I am controlling because I expect him to let me know if he is going to be late getting home. He says I am controlling because I want to know where he is during the day (he is self employed). I don't expect a step by step narrative, but a general idea would be nice...most of the time when I asked what he did that day it was out of general conversation....not some sort of interrogation!
> 
> ...


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

The only comfort I can give you is that I have seen many threads where the combined effort of many posters trying to help will make you being better of then before. Keep faith!


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I want to be sleeping right now....5 hours till I need to be up for work. But I'm having trouble so I might as well write.

Ok...the delusional....He thinks I don't know what love is. He says that I think it is supposed to be warm and mushy and romantic all the time. That is not what I think. But I know love is NOT how he has been treating me lately! I think the delusional also refers to me thinking that my kids are good kids. This is just my best guess because I'm really not sure. When I ask him to explain or give an example he just tells me to figure it out myself. 

Enabler: definitely about my kids! He says I enable to to lie and get away with anything they want. Admittedly, I could be a better mother...no doubt about it. And I am sure they lie, fib, or otherwise skew the truth at times...but if I catch them they do get in trouble for that. I DO NOT like liars! And by trouble I mean a lecture about how bad lying affects lives...etc, and extra work to do. 

A liar: he did give one example of this. He says I lie because I allow my kids to listen to country music when he is not around but will turn it off when he is in the car or the house. I have never agreed to not let them listen to country music. I don't allow rap in my house. But Husband thinks we should only listen to Christian music. Nothing else. I simply don't agree. Never have, never will. I will agree that christian music is the most wholesome...but thats as far as that goes.

As far as wanting to know where he is....we live in a small town. Occasionally he needs to drive to one of the bigger towns. One is almost 2 hours away. the other is about 30 minutes away. It would be nice to know when he goes to those places. It's a safety thing to me....if he didn't come home, where do I begin to look? There are a lot of deer around here and so forth (plus really spotty cell service if something did happen!).... Really other than that it was general communication. Hey I'm headed here and I expect to be gone for several hours. For months he cooked dinner every night. It was great!! I was going to school full time and just graduated in May. But after months of cooking every night, sometimes I would get home from a long day of school and its 8pm and kids haven't eaten yet and Husband is nowhere to be found and didn't tell anyone where he was going. Now the kids, they are old enough, and they are capable of feeding themselves....it is one of those communication things that would be nice to know though. When I was a single mom, my kids knew that if I wasn't home by six and they didn't smell dinner, they better get themselves something. We all came to rely on his cooking but then it became sporadic and eventually stopped.


My kids living at home are 16, 13, and 10. I have two on their own who are 19 and 18.

Other issues he could resent me for....I have a really close male friend who has been in my life for 7 years now? I do still talk to him and H got upset about it once. We talked about it and it seemed settled. H didn't care if I talked to him as long as I didn't talk about us. And we have an open cell phone, email policy. Although I rarely looked at his stuff but he often looked at mine although he would do it in secret even though I knew he was doing it.

I don't like the church he chose for us to go to. I was going to another with my kids until we were married and he basically told me go to whatever church you want...but he would be going to that one. I wanted to go as a family so I started going to the one he wanted to go to. 

I have asked him to stop talking to one women. He was flirting (imo) with her and I told him I didn't like it. Ironically, since he has left, 3 of my boys have mentioned how much he would flirt when I wasn't with him....

We were renting a tiny 3 bedroom house and one of his complaints was that there wasn't enough room for his kids to come visit comfortably. He has 4 kids ages 10-17. So after I graduated and I got a job, I found a house 15 minutes closer to my work. A very large 6 bedroom house. I thought it was perfect....he didn't want it.He found another small 3 bedroom house that he wanted. Essentially I made the final call on which house to rent and he was not very happy about it. There were reasons I chose it...location, schools, I don't think we would have been approved for the one he wanted...etc)

I accused him of cheating once. He told me he would be home by 10:30 pm. I woke up at 12:30 and he wasn't home. He didn't respond to my calls or texts for another 45 minutes....and then it took another 30 minutes for him to come home from across town where he claimed to be picking up discarded furniture. I was irate by the time he got home. Btw...my ex cheated on me. I know I shouldn't carry that over to my h. Very hard not to when suspicious behavior pops up.

I guess I'm not sure what else to say right now. And I really need some sleep! Thanks for all of the input. Keep it coming please!


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

Well he could be having an affair. 

He is most definitely projecting. Don't let him Gaslight you, because that's exactly what his actions are achieving. 

He may very well be mentally ill. Were you living with him before you were married? Sometimes we hear about a flip switching in a spouse, and their behavior completely changes, almost overnight after marriage. 

The differences in parenting strategies are a big one in my book, but you are 
the mom. He may have known about your style while dating, but living with it is a different story. 

When I read the words in the text he sent you, I laughed. No one writes such a wordy reply unless something is up imo. One quick way to spot a liar is to watch how they explain very simple events or questions. It's always an epic story, because they're weaving a tale that has to cover all bases in case you ask more questions. That combined with his frequent, lengthy absences says he wants to avoid home and something is up. Just be aware. 

You should never have to tolerate his kind of emotional abuse. It goes way beyond basic marriage challenges. So, I say, don't. 

Read up about the 180,and start implementing it. It's not about revenge, it's about protecting yourself and learning to live without him. Time to reclaim your sanity.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

uhtred said:


> I think he is being unreasonable, maybe mentally unstable, but lets explore more:
> 
> How would he punish the kids? What are the things that they do that he thinks deserves punishment. (how old are they?)


He would punish them by taking freedoms away. Great! No problem! I know I could do better at my parenting and I could use the help with the kids! However....he would ground them from everything....for anything they did wrong. There is a warning first, but if it every happens again there must be a punishment. Not a single other warning. I'll be very honest....if I punished my kids the way he wants me to for EVERY single thing they did wrong, they would have no possessions and would ALWAYS be grounded. There was no leeway at all. Maybe that is how parents are supposed to be? Maybe this it my delusional issue that he speaks of? So many adults, teachers, coaches, bosses, compliment my kids and how much they like my kids. Can I really be doing that bad of a job and have so many people adore my kids?

Not to mention, with how long I was a single mom and parented my way, it would cause serious rebellion. We tried his way for about 3 months. I was AWFUL. The kids lost respect for him, and they were quickly losing it for me to. It wasn't how our family functioned. My then 15 year old even took off for several hours. I told H that I could not parent how he wanted me to. He backed off for a while. But I think ultimately he wanted me to do it his way. He essentially claims his kids are perfect, even though he will deny it if you ask him directly. But every time my kids would do something wrong he would say his kids would NEVER do something like that....!


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## Daisy12 (Jul 10, 2016)

Did you guys live together before getting married? Trying to blend a family with that many kids on both sides has to be the hardest task ever. I applaud couples who do it. The reason I ask is my sister once dated a man with 1 child, she has two. Things were great until they moved in together. She could not Stand how he raised his child and he had complaints all the time about her children. They were not on the same page of parenting and it cause massive issues. I mean rip roaring fights over something as little as the child didn't put the dish in the dishwasher but placed it in the sink. Crazy stuff!

My sister would feel like if he didn't take her parenting advice and make his child do what she wanted then he didn't love her or respect her and I'm sure he was probably felt the same way. It took me forever to get her to understand that you can't ask him to chose between her and his child, there was no comparison and that if the way the viewed parenting was so different than they were best to call it quits. After a few late night talks she agreed and then split, still remained friends but realized that their each own kids were more important than their relationship, as it should be. Was a pretty intense time at home which not good for kids to begin with.

If your husband does not agree with the way you parent your children then maybe he's not the best fit for you right now. I'm sorry but he doesn't sound like he is being very nice and respectful of you or your children right now. He knew that you had kids coming In to this relationship and I'm sure they are your 100% top priority. If he can't respect you enough to let you raise your kids the way you want to then it's time for you to move on. As I said above, blending a family is the hardest thing you can do, they don't blend they collide. I myself could never do it. I know I'm not strong enough. 

Best of luck, do what's best for your family and if he doesn't respect they way you raise your kids or that you value their happiness and over his then he is immature and a child himself.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Your husband sounds awful. Reading through your posts I wonder if he has a serious mental illness, if he's cheating, and/or if he has an addiction. Those are the only things I can think of that would explain his behavior. Honestly, I think you should just accept this man has more issues than Time magazine and consider ending the marriage.


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## EllisRedding (Apr 10, 2015)

howdouknow said:


> He claims to be a high needs man (aren't most of them!!??) .


No, most men are not high needs lol, you just seems to have found a real doosy (sp?)

Either way, I think it is clear he wants to end the marriage, and instead of doing it in an adult like manner, he is intentionally pushing your buttons so at the end of the day he can lay the blame on you for the marriage failing (even better if he is having an affair, he can blame it all on you...).


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

EllisRedding said:


> No, most men are not high needs lol, you just seems to have found a real doosy (sp?)
> 
> Either way, I think it is clear he wants to end the marriage, and instead of doing it in an adult like manner, he is intentionally pushing your buttons so at the end of the day he can lay the blame on you for the marriage failing (even better if he is having an affair, he can blame it all on you...).


Either way, I think it is clear he wants to end the marriage, and instead of doing it in an adult like manner, he is intentionally pushing your buttons so at the end of the day he can lay the blame on you for the marriage failing (even better if he is having an affair, he can blame it all on you...).[/QUOTE]

Not dissing men...just meant a high sex drive but couldn't think of the wording! lol

I really do believe he wants out....oh duh.....he is out!! But I know he has trouble excepting responsibility for his actions and now he doesn't have to (in his mind) because I told him to leave. Since he started talking to me after the week of silence, he has been mean. It's my fault he didn't have his belongings. It's my fault he has no money or a place to live, or food to eat. He had all his needs met...on my income....but he wanted out. Well he got it, and I don't see any possible way of salvaging this marriage. I certainly can't save it alone.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

Wolfman1968 said:


> He may have some sort of mental issues, if we expand that definition to include personality disorders (borderline personality, etc.).
> 
> If he is NOT in an affair (and your description of his behavior sounds more like a mental issue than an affair to me), then it seems like he has developed some sort of resentment towards you. A very deep one. Thus, he developed a hair-trigger sensitivity to any slight at all.
> 
> Do you have ANY idea at all what he is referring to when he says you were "fraudulent, disillusion, liar, enabler"..? It sounds like he believes HE was the victim of a lie or misrepresentation. I'm not saying it has to be a legitimate complaint, but do you have any sense of what wrong (whether it is IN HIS MIND only or not) he suffered? You don't have to agree it is legitimate, just trying to get a sense of where his anger is coming from.


I chuckled when it was @Wolfman1968 who answered your questions so eloquently. He too flips to the dark side, but only once a month when his Moon Menses comes on.

I too expect that your husband has serious mental issues. Like what? Paranoid/Schizophrenia, Narcissist Personality Disorder, or high functioning Asperger's or Autism Disorder.

Maybe he went off his medication. 

It could be that you are withholding some of you misbehavior in your posting. However, his reaction is WAY over the top, even with this figured in.

Sorry you are here. You deserve much better than this. He needs help badly. See if you can get more information on him from friends, family and exes?

You need to divorce this Fruitcake.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

EllisRedding said:


> Either way, I think it is clear he wants to end the marriage, and instead of doing it in an adult like manner, he is intentionally pushing your buttons so at the end of the day he can lay the blame on you for the marriage failing (even better if he is having an affair, he can blame it all on you...).


Yup. For whatever reason (which doesn't actually matter as much as you might think) he wants out of the marriage. But he doesn't want to to be seen to be the bad guy to initiate the end, so he torments you until you do it for him. Then he can blame you, tell the community he did everything he could but you couldn't deal with it, etc.

From how you describe him, he sounds controlling, domineering, inflexible, disrespectful and selfish, and just put on a good show of being otherwise to reel you in during the courtship. I'm sure you'll be better off without him now that you've seen the real him behind the facade.

Be careful, he's going to turn friends and community against you during this breakup, because they'll still believe the facade.


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## KillerClown (Jul 20, 2016)

I don't like the church he chose for us to go to. I was going to another with my kids until we were married and he basically told me go to whatever church you want...but he would be going to that one. I wanted to go as a family so I started going to the one he wanted to go to. 

This rang a bell. What is it about the church you don't like? Does he know you dislike his church?

On a side note, no reasonable man should say, "my kids would NEVER do something like that" to a woman in your position. It's hitting way below the belt.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

howdouknow said:


> He claims to be a high needs man (aren't most of them!!??)


It's what you've been led to believe, but no it isn't always true. Just like some people believe withholding sex is a woman thing. You now know this isn't true.

This is punishment, let him go before he fully ruins you and your kids life.


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## HisMrs83 (Aug 8, 2011)

This strikes me as a man who has become resentful of your children living at home. Of course I could definitely be wrong. However, it sounds as though he isn't/wasn't prepared for the change in his lifestyle. Hence, his being M.I.A. when he was there alone with them. He doesn't want to be bothered with people. Is he accustomed to living alone (or, without children in the home)? If his children only visit, how long has it been since he lived under the same roof with them on a full-time basis? He has become selfish in his own right and your life (with children) is forcing him to sacrifice life as he knows it AND his space. Add to it, he doesn't like your parenting style, or, how your children behave and you may have some answers as to what you're dealing with. I also notice you stated he's a lot more demanding of them and quick to punish. Honey, it sounds like he doesn't like/accept your children and is becoming very angry/enraged about it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

He sounds like a lunatic.

The good news is that he has left, as otherwise who knows what would have happened? He could have gone completely off the deep end and caused physical harm to you or your children.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Based mostly on your other responses - you need to be rid of this guy. I don't know if he is abusive / controlling, mentally ill, or what, but he is absolutely no good for you or your kids. He left, don't ask him back. I suspect he is waiting for you to beg him to return. Please don't do it. I don't see anything positive here and a lot that is negative, with a hint of serious danger. Get a lawyer, draw up divorce papers and be done.

He us wrong, over-punishment fail. My parents made that mistake with my sister. She was a troublesome child and they took away all her rights and privileges - and then what? Short of beating her there really was nothing they could do. Punishments have to be measured - and its a really difficult problem. You know your kids and you can do better than anyone else. 

It is not reasonable to expect children to only listen to religious music. This is a case where an extreme restriction will really be no restriction at all, because they will not respect the restriction. Lots of kids listen to songs with bad words, sneak peeks at the equivalent of playboy and try a cigarette. Its vital to separate normal stuff from trying heroin, or getting pregnant.


Again, get away from this guy. Don't take him back when he comes back (he will, if you don't beg for him first). He will be all apologetic and loving - its just that you drive him crazy you know......

Mentally Ill, or an abuser? You don't want either. 








howdouknow said:


> He would punish them by taking freedoms away. Great! No problem! I know I could do better at my parenting and I could use the help with the kids! However....he would ground them from everything....for anything they did wrong. There is a warning first, but if it every happens again there must be a punishment. Not a single other warning. I'll be very honest....if I punished my kids the way he wants me to for EVERY single thing they did wrong, they would have no possessions and would ALWAYS be grounded. There was no leeway at all. Maybe that is how parents are supposed to be? Maybe this it my delusional issue that he speaks of? So many adults, teachers, coaches, bosses, compliment my kids and how much they like my kids. Can I really be doing that bad of a job and have so many people adore my kids?
> 
> Not to mention, with how long I was a single mom and parented my way, it would cause serious rebellion. We tried his way for about 3 months. I was AWFUL. The kids lost respect for him, and they were quickly losing it for me to. It wasn't how our family functioned. My then 15 year old even took off for several hours. I told H that I could not parent how he wanted me to. He backed off for a while. But I think ultimately he wanted me to do it his way. He essentially claims his kids are perfect, even though he will deny it if you ask him directly. But every time my kids would do something wrong he would say his kids would NEVER do something like that....!


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

KillerClown said:


> I don't like the church he chose for us to go to. I was going to another with my kids until we were married and he basically told me go to whatever church you want...but he would be going to that one. I wanted to go as a family so I started going to the one he wanted to go to.
> 
> This rang a bell. What is it about the church you don't like? Does he know you dislike his church?
> 
> On a side note, no reasonable man should say, "my kids would NEVER do something like that" to a woman in your position. It's hitting way below the belt.


The church is very small with very few teenagers. The worship leader is...well her singing hurts my ears. And there are differences in beliefs..... really only one that I can pinpoint, but its a major one. More than anything I was happy with the other one and my boys were cooperative in going there. I left a my lifelong religion about 2 years ago and it has been a major adjustment for my children and I. To have him just decide one day to attend another one with no discussion or anything else was very frustrating.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

HisMrs83 said:


> This strikes me as a man who has become resentful of your children living at home. Of course I could definitely be wrong. However, it sounds as though he isn't/wasn't prepared for the change in his lifestyle. Hence, his being M.I.A. when he was there alone with them. He doesn't want to be bothered with people. Is he accustomed to living alone (or, without children in the home)? If his children only visit, how long has it been since he lived under the same roof with them on a full-time basis? He has become selfish in his own right and your life (with children) is forcing him to sacrifice life as he knows it AND his space. Add to it, he doesn't like your parenting style, or, how your children behave and you may have some answers as to what you're dealing with. I also notice you stated he's a lot more demanding of them and quick to punish. Honey, it sounds like he doesn't like/accept your children and is becoming very angry/enraged about it.


Yes I absolutely believe he resents my kids! He started making fun of my 18 year old (to me, not to my 18 year old). In a mocking voice saying...."Oh Josh...little Mr. Perfect...can't do any wrong..." and on and on. It had to do with me asking my H to clean up his stuff in the garage so Josh could access his to move it. H was always upset when I would listen to my kids when they gave me advice about my vehicles. They are pretty dang good mechanics actually. My H didn't like it. I don't know why. But I do listen to my older boys because they have never steered me wrong about whats wrong with the car or what maintenance needs to be done.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

uhtred said:


> He us wrong, over-punishment fail. My parents made that mistake with my sister. She was a troublesome child and they took away all her rights and privileges - and then what? Short of beating her there really was nothing they could do. Punishments have to be measured - and its a really difficult problem. You know your kids and you can do better than anyone else.
> 
> It is not reasonable to expect children to only listen to religious music. This is a case where an extreme restriction will really be no restriction at all, because they will not respect the restriction. Lots of kids listen to songs with bad words, sneak peeks at the equivalent of playboy and try a cigarette. Its vital to separate normal stuff from trying heroin, or getting pregnant.


I could feel my kids withdrawing from me. It was not good. I could not keep doing it my husbands way. You can certainly over punish and that is what happened with my then 15 year old. With him grounded from everything, there was no reason to listen at all. So I essentially bribed him to be good by lessening his punishment duration. Kind of a reduced sentence for good behavior. My H said that made me untrustworthy because I didn't keep my word in the original punishment.

Which reminds me, that was another thing he called me dishonest about; my older two kids live 2 hours away and often come home for the weekend. If I forgot to mention it to my H, then I was hiding it from him and thus cannot be trusted.  I didn't purposely hide anything from him! There were times I waited to tell him something...like when I found out a passed a really big exam. When I do the results, H was mad at me about something, and when he is mad he ignores me. I was so excited that I passed the test but didn't want to tell him and have him ignore me. So I told my kids, friends, etc who were all excited for me and congratulated me. 

So many issues...he had never told me good job for graduating...didn't even say congratulations at my graduation. As a matter of fact, he left early from it. No pictures outside afterwards....


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Last post for now.....lol....

Today I texted him and said, "I am deeply sorry for any hurt, injury, or damage I have caused you. And I forgive you." The response about 30 minutes later was "Thank you." After all, there is nothing he might to apologize for....right??? I am hurt and sad, but I do forgive him, because I cannot hold onto that bitterness. But don't worry, I will be reading up on the 180 tonight. As difficult as it might be, I will not take him back. I will not ask him to come back, and I will not allow him back. Too much has happened. As good as things were in the beginning, they have been so horrible the last couple of months. The pain sucks right now, but I know my children and I are better off without him. I fully mourn the loss, and cry often. However I realize the loss is of a short lived fantasy. I will not miss the reality.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> Last post for now.....lol....
> 
> Today I texted him and said, "I am deeply sorry for any hurt, injury, or damage I have caused you. And I forgive you." The response about 30 minutes later was "Thank you." After all, there is nothing he might to apologize for....right??? I am hurt and sad, but I do forgive him, because I can hold onto that bitterness. But don't worry, I will be reading up on the 180 tonight. As difficult as it might be, I will not take him back. I will not ask him to come back, and I will not allow him back. Too much has happened. As good as things were in the beginning, they have been so horrible the last couple of months. The pain sucks right now, but I know my children and I are better off without him. I fully mourn the loss, and cry often. However I realize the loss is of a short lived fantasy. I will not miss the reality.


Stay strong. The hurt will go away eventually and then you will have the rest of your life to live without the burdens that he has been putting on you.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

howdouknow said:


> The church is very small with very few teenagers. The worship leader is...well her singing hurts my ears. And there are differences in beliefs..... really only one that I can pinpoint, but its a major one. More than anything I was happy with the other one and my boys were cooperative in going there. I left a my lifelong religion about 2 years ago and it has been a major adjustment for my children and I. *To have him just decide one day to attend another one with no discussion or anything else was very frustrating*.


And you were the enabler here.

It is important that there is cooperation and harmony in a relation (also dynamics and individual space ofcourse) which seems to lack in your household.

Actually, LOVE is what is missing.


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## Bobby5000 (Oct 19, 2011)

Step-parenting is hard. The number one requirement is any relationship is that HE MUST GENUINELY LOVE YOUR KIDS. That's not present and discipline is not his role. New families can be demanding and for whatever reason, he is not happy. So call it a day without bitterness realizing that this just did not work.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Please don't take him back. 
You have done nothing wrong. He has done a LOT wrong. Forgive him if you wish, but please do not let him back in your life. Contact an attorney and get a divorce going.

I bet you he will try to find a way back. He will "forgive" you for *your* transgressions and offer to return. Its an abuser pattern - they try to make the victim feel that they are somehow at fault.

He is not just bad for you, he is very bad for your children. 



howdouknow said:


> Last post for now.....lol....
> 
> Today I texted him and said, "I am deeply sorry for any hurt, injury, or damage I have caused you. And I forgive you." The response about 30 minutes later was "Thank you." After all, there is nothing he might to apologize for....right??? I am hurt and sad, but I do forgive him, because I cannot hold onto that bitterness. But don't worry, I will be reading up on the 180 tonight. As difficult as it might be, I will not take him back. I will not ask him to come back, and I will not allow him back. Too much has happened. As good as things were in the beginning, they have been so horrible the last couple of months. The pain sucks right now, but I know my children and I are better off without him. I fully mourn the loss, and cry often. However I realize the loss is of a short lived fantasy. I will not miss the reality.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

It's very frustrating that there was not more effort or communication on his part. It's frustrating that he can just walk away without another concern. Me...I have to juggle being a single mom again. I guess in the end I was playing that role anyways. I just wonder....how would he react if a man did the same thing in his kids lives? 

There are no consequences for him. Just for my children and I  

I have no idea how I could possibly trust my judgement of a man again in the future. 

I think he is fully expecting that I will take him back at anytime. I'm sure he is also expecting that I will start begging for him to come back soon. 

I am printing and filling out divorce papers today. I don't think I need an attorney but I guess time will tell on that...Don't know that I can really afford one too easily. I have a plan in place to have him served next weekend. Just need to find the person to do it....

Yes, I believe he is bad for my children now. I would never want my kids to act the way he has been acting lately!


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

howdouknow said:


> Last post for now.....lol....
> 
> Today I texted him and said, "I am deeply sorry for any hurt, injury, or damage I have caused you. And I forgive you." The response about 30 minutes later was "Thank you." After all, there is nothing he might to apologize for....right??? I am hurt and sad, but I do forgive him, because I cannot hold onto that bitterness. But don't worry, I will be reading up on the 180 tonight. As difficult as it might be, I will not take him back. I will not ask him to come back, and I will not allow him back. Too much has happened. As good as things were in the beginning, they have been so horrible the last couple of months. The pain sucks right now, but I know my children and I are better off without him. I fully mourn the loss, and cry often. However I realize the loss is of a short lived fantasy. I will not miss the reality.


This is good. God Bless!

The wound has stopped bleeding....pain continues......soon the scab will form.

The scar will be a lesson learned. Dagnabbit why is life so hard? If events were not hard they would bounce off leaving no dent in your memory.....and they would be repeated.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

I married a man who had full custody of two boys 5 & 7. Bio mom was not a big part of the picture but the boys did see her a couple times a year. The boys were fine with me until they learned we were getting married and then some awful behavior started playing out and I was expected to take it. husband did not want to address the issues with his sons, said he wanted his sons to be able to be boys. Which meant that he and his sons would toss a football around inside the house until it hit my daughter in the nose and one of my antique jars got broken. Later it turned into them seeking porn on the internet and having Maxxum magazine in the house. Did husband address it? If telling the boy to keep it i n his car is addressing the issue, geesh! 

It would be my guess that your husband feels you are not including him on the parenting and that what he says is disregarded, so why try. It causes a great deal of hard feelings...hard feelings between the step parent and the children but also with you and spouse. I actually wish my husband would have showed me the door and I would have left a year after we were married. It would have saved me years of frustration with the step family and everything else I dealt with. 

I am not saying your husband is fully in the right or clear here but I do suspect that he is tired of the step family dynamic and your lack of parenting. I would suggest that you talk and make agreements as to how things will play out and executed. You have to do it together or it will not work.

As far as wanting to know where he is or checking, I do not think that is such a bad thing. If he resists that is an indication of something else....either he feels smothered or he is up to no good.

Your apologizing to ease your feelings or bring him back, not good! Apology needs to be specific.....what are you apologizing for? Do you need to apologize for it? You start apologizing when he runs and you set a pattern that is not healthy. Talk about the issues, once the issues have been layed-out, apology for what you can take responsibility for but do not apologize to win someone back on your life.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

You have some good points. And I think you are spot on in some areas. He didn't think I was dealing with issues. And maybe I am making excuses here....the double standard was horrible. Why should the kids have to clean the whole kitchen if they left a cup in the living room or on the counter? H would leave things out and when he remembered he would put them away? Why cannot the same be ok for the kids?

The kids could not leave a jacket out but the H would leave huge messes out for weeks in the name of "organizing".

Really none of the matters now anyways. This is day 13 of him being gone. I have no idea where he has been this whole time. He doesn't want to talk about anything. He asked for his belongings once, and I gave him some clothes cause that's all I had time to gather at the moment. Everything else his here....the rest of his clothes, tools, laptop that he uses to do his accounting for his self employment, guns, paperwork....everything. I don't understand!!

As for me giving a generic apology. I am sorry for any hurt I have caused him. Whether that pain is for a valid reason or not, I have never intended to hurt my spouse. EVER. It was not an apology of hoping he comes back. At this point we are long past that. 

There are many signs that something more is going on. It's not just a stepchild issue here, although there were plenty of those. Someone brought up a point earlier in the thread that perhaps he was too used to living alone. He has lived alone since 2008-ish I believe. He does seem burdened by anyone interfering with how or when he wants to do something. He wants to march to the beat of his own drum and no one elses. He wants to do everything on his time schedule and most of the time it made absolutely no sense to me. He would plan out a long list of things he needed to accomplish in a day and then wait till 2 in the afternoon to get started. If I brought it up, then I was trying to control him and make things happen my way. I just don't know.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Well people of TAM....you all are very smart. I just called my FIL (who I really don't know well at all) and we talked for almost an hour. He says H has been this way for quite a while...secretive...runs from his problems....etc. FIL said he thinks H has some sort of mental or personality disorder, He told me H would walk out on his GF for days or weeks at a time. 

And no, I don't think FIL was being malicious....he was sympathetic and wanting to help me. Although I know it can be seen the other way.

I learned several interesting things....like H never made his kids pick up after themselves like he gets on mine about. H has tons of stuff stored all over at his dads house....at his dads neighbors house...etc.

And I learned something that makes total sense in hind sight...but I didn't know at all. When H started living with me about 4 months before we were married....it was because his father and him had a disagreement and he was told he could not stay there any longer. So....looks like I was just the warm place to rest his head.  Merely a convenience. I had no clue that's what happened. H told me he was ready to take our relationship further.....AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH I am not very smart at all.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

You ARE smart - you are getting out, with minimal harm done.


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## happydad (Apr 11, 2016)

howdouknow said:


> Well people of TAM....you all are very smart. I just called my FIL (who I really don't know well at all) and we talked for almost an hour. He says H has been this way for quite a while...secretive...runs from his problems....etc. FIL said he thinks H has some sort of mental or personality disorder, He told me H would walk out on his GF for days or weeks at a time.
> 
> And no, I don't think FIL was being malicious....he was sympathetic and wanting to help me. Although I know it can be seen the other way.
> 
> ...


DO NOT let him back. He is a child.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I will not take him back. I love him. Or I loved who I thought he was. But there is no way I can live the way it was in the end or make my kids deal with that!

If it is a mental or personality disorder.....anyone have an idea of what??


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I don't think there is a clear dividing line between personality disorder and mental illness. I think mental illness is generally considered more severe, more disabling. 

It is sadly easy to fall in love with what you think someone is, rather than what they really are.






howdouknow said:


> I will not take him back. I love him. Or I loved who I thought he was. But there is no way I can live the way it was in the end or make my kids deal with that!
> 
> If it is a mental or personality disorder.....anyone have an idea of what??


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Well, I talked to his ex wife today too. I know ex's aren't the most reliable source.....however, everything she said seems to be exactly what I have/am experiencing.

He is a very broken man. I don't know what happened...I don't know why he is broken. But there is nothing I can do for him. I am working on the D papers this evening. 

Sad....very very sad.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I feel like my heart has been racing for days...how do I calm down?? I know its over....I believe I have accepted that it should be over, that I am better off without him.... but the physical affects of the stress are still there. Heart is literally racing...


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I didn't want to click "like", but do want to say that I think you are doing the right thing.



howdouknow said:


> Well, I talked to his ex wife today too. I know ex's aren't the most reliable source.....however, everything she said seems to be exactly what I have/am experiencing.
> 
> He is a very broken man. I don't know what happened...I don't know why he is broken. But there is nothing I can do for him. I am working on the D papers this evening.
> 
> Sad....very very sad.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

howdouknow said:


> I feel like my heart has been racing for days...how do I calm down?? I know its over....I believe I have accepted that it should be over, that I am better off without him.... but the physical affects of the stress are still there. Heart is literally racing...


Walk in nature? Relaxation exercises you are familiar with? Talking to other people? Finding a counselor or telephone help line?


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## Lostme (Nov 14, 2014)

I think you need to pack up is belongings and send him a message that if they are not picked up at a certain time you will take his stuff to his parents house.

You are smart to get away from this guy, he sounds controlling, and when a person is controlling it gets worse as the relationship moves on.

Good luck, I think you are doing the right thing for you and your children.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

I found exercise really helped me finally exhaust my body so I could rest, or be less "alert" the whole time. Have you tried going for a run? Or doing something else physically demanding.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> Last post for now.....lol....
> 
> Today I texted him and said, "I am deeply sorry for any hurt, injury, or damage I have caused you. And I forgive you." The response about 30 minutes later was "Thank you." After all, there is nothing he might to apologize for....right??? I am hurt and sad, but I do forgive him, because I cannot hold onto that bitterness. But don't worry, I will be reading up on the 180 tonight. As difficult as it might be, I will not take him back. I will not ask him to come back, and I will not allow him back. Too much has happened. As good as things were in the beginning, they have been so horrible the last couple of months. The pain sucks right now, but I know my children and I are better off without him. I fully mourn the loss, and cry often. However I realize the loss is of a short lived fantasy. I will not miss the reality.


He sounds like a bit of a control freak. Good for you, standing your ground.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Exercise is a good idea. Now to fit it into my schedule.... 

The D papers are filled out. I need to find someone to serve them. Hoping for Saturday.

During out conversation about his belongings, he stated that he does not want a divorce. I didn't address the comment but I was thinking What in the world goes on in this mans mind?? Does he really think I will just take him back after all of this? After not knowing where he has been for 17 days? NOT GONNA HAPPEN!


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Divorce papers have been served. This feels awful. There has been communication for a couple of days again.

It just doesn't seem like this should be happening. There is nothing I can do though. Feeling super unsure of myself and this decision.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> I will not take him back. I love him. Or I loved who I thought he was. But there is no way I can live the way it was in the end or make my kids deal with that!
> 
> If it is a mental or personality disorder.....anyone have an idea of what??


Selfishness. Self-centredness. Psychopathy? Extreme hypocrisy?

Does knowing the name actually help you? Don't waste too much time and effort figuring this out unless there's a possible benefit to knowing.



howdouknow said:


> I feel like my heart has been racing for days...how do I calm down?? I know its over....I believe I have accepted that it should be over, that I am better off without him.... but the physical affects of the stress are still there. Heart is literally racing...


It's a stress response, and perfectly normal. Your life is undergoing an upheaval and things are uncertain, and your body is telling you to fight or flee and giving you the hormones to do either. Unfortunately neither response is appropriate to the situation. Breathe deeply, do things that relax you, and focus your mind on the next few steps you need to take to reduce the uncertainty.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Selfishness. Self-centredness. Psychopathy? Extreme hypocrisy?
> 
> Does knowing the name actually help you? Don't waste too much time and effort figuring this out unless there's a possible benefit to knowing.


Not really except that I would like to learn from this awful experience. 

I read up on psychopathy this morning. It was dead on! It helps explain why things went bad so fast. Once I wasn't playing his game, I became useless to him so he moves on to start scouting out the next victim. If it would have gone how he wanted and expected the 'relationship' would have lasted longer as he continued to control and manipulate me while destroying me.


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## caruso (Sep 23, 2016)

See_Listen_Love said:


> The only comfort I can give you is that I have seen many threads where the combined effort of many posters trying to help will make you being better of then before. Keep faith!


People giving advice can't make a person better. They can only guide a person towards taking steps that improve themselves.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Why do I let him get to me!!!? I took a load of stuff up to where he has storage unit today. I had reason to believe he wouldn't be there, so I was just going to drop it off. However, I was wrong...he was there having a "garage sale" out of the unit. And stupid me, instead of driving by, I stopped. This is the first time I have seen him since Sept 5th. I asked him to talk to me. I asked him if he wanted a divorce. He said no. I asked him why he ignored me for a week solid....he said cause he didn't want to talk to me. I asked why he won't talk about the marriage and he said he refuses to talk to me while I am extorting him with his belongings. Which I am not...I am trying to get it back to him, but he rarely responds to me so it makes arrangements rather difficult. 

A little background...H had been using a truck that belongs to my oldest son. The thought was that H could probably just have the truck because son doesn't need it. However, H never put the truck into his name. When H left, he left the truck here. Son was in an accident and his daily driver is not driveable. SO 5 days after H left, son asked if he could take the truck with him. H was not communicating with me AT ALL, so I told my son to take his truck home since he needed it and H didn't seem to need it or want it.

Now...H is extremely mad that son took the truck home (he lives about 2.5 hours away). H compared the importance of our marriage to the ownership of the truck. Saying if I cannot uphold the agreement about the truck, then why should he believe that I would uphold our marriage vows that are just a piece of paper. Is that messed up??? Or am I the one who is wrong here?

Anyways talking certainly DID NOT WORK. He continues to blame EVERYTHING on me. He says it might have been wrong to ignore me for a week, but it's his right to decide if he wants to talk to me or not. I guess it is his 'right' but it's not acceptable in a marriage imo.

Just so frustrated that he doesn't care. I don't understand. Maybe I'm not supposed to.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Honestly, in a lot of ways its better that he is being unreasonable when you talk. It just acts as a reminder that you are doing the right thing. If he wanted to make it seem difficult he would apologize and actt reasonable - for now. 

I think its best if you minimize your interactions with him. 

You are absolutely doing the right thing.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

howdouknow said:


> If it is a mental or personality disorder.....anyone have an idea of what??


HowDo, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., event-triggered irrational anger, inability to trust, paranoia (e.g., claiming you are delusional, fraudulent, and a liar), controlling behavior, temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and, to a lesser extent, for NPD (Narcissistic PD). Importantly, I'm not suggesting your H has full-blown BPD or NPD but, rather, that he might exhibit moderate to strong traits of it or another PD.

I caution that BPD (and NPD) is not something that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your H exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do. 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD and NPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.



> I read up on psychopathy this morning. It was dead on! It helps explain why things went bad so fast.


Perhaps you are right. Antisocial Personality Disorder (i.e., ASPD, which is what psychopathy is now called in the DSM-5) is a possibility. Yet, if your H has strong and persistent traits of ASPD, he would be a social predator who is incapable of loving you or anyone else. Do you really believe he never truly loved you? Moreover, having strong ASPD traits would imply he essentially has a stable personality. Do you believe that? So far, you seem to be describing the opposite: a man who loved you during the courtship period and who is emotionally unstable.

Significantly, ASPD is not required to _"explain why things went bad so fast."_ This rapid deterioration of the marriage also occurs with BPDers. Unlike ASPDers, the BPDers are unstable and are capable of loving you very intensely (albeit in the very immature way that a young child is able to love). 

Throughout the courtship/honeymoon period, a BPDer will idealize you. He will be convinced you are the nearly perfect woman who has come to save him from unhappiness. In this way, his infatuation over you will hold his two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay. That infatuation typically lasts 4 to 6 months but may last much longer if you are not dating too frequently. Once it starts to evaporate, his two great fears will return and you will start triggering them.

Indeed, it is impossible to avoid triggering those fears if your H is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits). The reason you cannot avoid them is that the two fears lie at opposite ends of the very same spectrum. Hence, as you draw close to assure him of your love and devotion, you inevitably will start suffocating him -- making him feel controlled and engulfed by your strong personality. Yet, as soon as you back away to give him breathing room, you will start triggering his abandonment fear.

I caution that, even if your H is a BPDer, this does not rule out him also exhibiting strong traits of NPD or ASPD. These PDs represent different patterns of behavior, not separate diseases. Consequently, the vast majority of people exhibiting strong traits of one PD also exhibit strong traits of one or two other PDs as well. A recent study found that 47% of males having full-blown BPD also suffer from full-blown NPD -- and 19% of those BPDer males also suffer from ASPD. See Table 3 at 2008 Study in JCP.



> He says I lie because I allow my kids to listen to country music when he is not around but will turn it off when he is in the car or the house. I have never agreed to not let them listen to country music.


If your H exhibits strong ASPD behavior as you suspect, this claim about you "lying" almost certainly is pure manipulation and is a false claim that he does not really believe. On the other hand, if he is a BPDer, he likely truly believed the claim at the moment he was making it. Like young children, BPDers are too immature to intellectually challenge their own intense feelings. 

Like a child, they are convinced that any feeling that intense MUST be true. BPDers thus perceive of intense feelings as self-evident "facts." And a week or two later -- when the BPDer's feelings have dramatically changed -- he will be just as convinced that the opposite conclusion is true too. This is why it usually is impossible to rationally reason with a BPDer when he is emotionally upset.



> Then came up with some crazy stuff...saying I am fraudulent, delusional, a liar, an enabler....and on and on. He was talking in this strange mocking voice and cussing and swearing (which I have VERY rarely heard him do).


As I noted above, you likely are seeing ASPD traits (or NPD traits) if your H does not really believe these claims -- but you likely are seeing BPD traits if he truly believes them at the moment he is saying them.



> I thought he was a really good man. I thought he was the type who honored marriage and held it in high regards.


If he is a BPDer, you likely were correct about him being "a really good man." A BPDer's problem is not being _bad_ but, rather, being _emotionally unstable_. Most BPDers are good people who are very easy to fall in love with. Indeed, two of the world's most beloved women -- Marilyn Monroe and Princess Diana -- both exhibited full-blown BPD if their biographers are correct.



> He also referred to me as his enemy tonight.


This black-white thinking is a warning sign for BPD and NPD. Granted, we all do B-W thinking to some degree whenever we experience anger or other intense feelings. BPDers and narcissists, however, rely on it heavily. 

Like a young child, a BPDer is too immature to be able to handle strong mixed feelings, ambiguities, uncertainties, and the other gray areas of interpersonal relationships. This is why young children and BPDers are heavily reliant on all-or-nothing thinking. Specifically, they categorize everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and, in just ten seconds, will recategorize someone from one polar extreme to the other -- based solely on a minor comment or infraction. Months or weeks later they may recategorize that person, just as quickly, back to the other polar extreme.



> He would say his kids would NEVER do something like that....!


This is another example of black-white thinking. It typically is exhibited in the frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "You NEVER..." or "You ALWAYS...."



> When I asked why he is ending our marriage he said, "I'm not ending our marriage." Explain that!!??


That's easy to explain if he is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong BPD traits). A BPDer has such a fragile, fragmented sense of self identity that he really does not know who he is. He therefore is attracted to a woman having a strong personality that will help to ground him and center him. Yet, as soon as you provide that to a BPDer, he will start feeling controlled and dominated (i.e., his engulfment fear).

Moreover, to the extent a BPDer has a lasting sense of self at all, it is the false self identity of being "The Victim," always "The Victim." A BPDer therefore has a powerful need to be around a strong mate who he can blame for every misfortune or mistake. As you say, _"He continues to blame EVERYTHING on me."_ 

Hence, if you really are married to a BPDer, he will perceive of you as "the Rescuer" during the courtship period. The implication, of course, is that he must be "The Victim" if you're trying to rescue him. Then, when his infatuation evaporates and his two fears return, he will start perceiving of you as "the Persecutor," i.e., the cause of every misfortune.

This is why it is common for BPDer relationships to go off a cliff right after the marriage, at which time the BPDer starts blaming every misfortune on his spouse -- even though he does not want a divorce. And this is why the #2 best-selling BPD book is titled _I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!

_


> I don't understand. Maybe I'm not supposed to.


As I noted earlier, I cannot know whether your H is exhibiting strong traits of BPD, NPD, or ASPD. I've never met the guy. I nonetheless am confident that you can spot any strong traits that are occurring if you take a little time to learn which traits are on the list. 

Before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. 

Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur. Toward that end, I suggest you take a quick look at my list of _*18 BPD Warning Signs*_. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you read my more detailed description of them at my posts in _*Maybe's Thread*_. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join the other respondents in discussing them with you. 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will not enable you to diagnose your H's issues. Yet, like learning warning signs for breast cancer and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a painful situation, e.g., taking him back or running into the arms of another man just like him. Finally, if you do feel tempted to take him back, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is that you and your kids have been dealing with. Take care, HowDo.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Wow. Thank you uptown. I am almost on information overload! I absolutely want your input. 

I read everything you wrote and there are so many signs of BPD. And then I read the list of 18 BPD. You should know that he would mark me down as most of those things. And some I would agree with. What if I am the problem? Maybe we should analyze me first before looking at him....?


So, this is the list of 19 BPD about ME....

1. I don't think I am a black and white thinker. At least not excessively. I do it sometimes. But when I said he is blaming EVERYTHING on me....that wasn't black or white, he really is dong that! Sometimes I think I see too much gray! I am too sympathetic at times and try to cut a lot of slack to most people. lol

2. I have absolutely told him that he never encourages me and is almost always critical of me.

3. Yes, I am jealous. Irrationally so? I guess I don't know. I have outright accused him of cheating once. He was over 2.5 hours late getting home from just across town. I was super upset as I had been trying to text and call him the whole time. He dismissed it and said I am a crazy physco B**ch.

4. I absolutely do not think he has not done much lately for anyone but himself. And this preceeds him leaving. In the 3 months or so before he left, he stopped cooking, stopped cleaning, stopped interacting with the family for the most part. I told him thank you every chance I got for whatever I could find to say it for. But he minimally helped us pack and move except for his stuff. He didn't help clean the old rental at all. He was insistent we move his way which was a pickup full at a time instead of renting a moving truck. It took weeks and the majority of the work was done by the kids and I...with me working full time and him working some by selling things and helping people move. 

5. I do (or did) adore him. Very rarely did I criticize him at all. Although he would claim I did a lot. If I asked him why he was doing something a certain way he felt it was criticism. If I suggested another way, he thought it was criticism.

6. He would say I create drama. My biggest complaint was lack of communication about where he was or when he would be home. He thought of that as drama, because he shouldn't have to tell me where he is or when he will be home. If my feelings got hurt I would get in trouble for reacting, therefore I create drama.

7. Yes, I do have low self esteem. I would have loved to hear more compliments from him. The most common compliment was, "You have nice tits" and "You give good BJ's". I guess thats better than nothing.

8. A couple of times. Like when he was 2.5 hours late getting home. Or the day he blatantly flirted with another woman at church and called me crazy about it. Other than that, most of the time I would just be hurt by something he said which usually resulted in me being quite for a while before getting over it. 

9.Yes, I always felt like he would leave because I wan't good enough. He would often tell me all the things I was doing wrong which sucks because I am already really hard on myself about things I do wrong or could do better.

10.I try to place blame where it is due. And all too often I place it on me. Probably to an unhealthy extent.

11. Oh I can spend. But I am pretty darn careful with my money. As a single mother going to school for the past 5 years I have had to be careful. I pay all the bills on time and have been doing so my whole life. Eating...yes I eat too much. I am overweight, so I certainly have issues in that area. However, I don't binge eat, ever that I know of.

12. Perhaps. Isn't what I am doing now being the victim? Past relationships included a physically abusive man and am extreme cheater. Yes I was the victim in those. I have also had positive relationships end in which I am still friends with the other person. So IDK?

13. We had a lot of things in common, but not everything. I was very interested in what he talked about and did as a living (or claimed to do as a living). It was really fascinating to learn so much about bees and beekeeping. That was very genuine though. There wasn't anything that I faked interest in. We talked A LOT about the bible and religion. Again, a very true interest of mine. And his too as far as I know. But he would tell you I am not nearly as Christian as I claim to be. Conversely, I would say he talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.

14. No, I didn't rely on him to ground me or keep me focused. I was already 4 years into schooling when I met him. I was focused!!! But he would probably say that I never would have made it through if it weren't for him. He seemed to think I couldn't do much of anything without him.

15. Essentially until after we were married he was very good at soothing me and calming me. He would remind me that everything will work out and not to stress if there is nothing I can do to change the outcome. It was nice. I tend to deal with some anxiety. However, I was doing just fine before him. I have handled several years on my own. 

16. I don't have very many close friends locally. I moved here to go to college and I have mainly invested my time in that area. I do have some close friend in the area, I just don't spend much time with them. I have some really close, long term friends from across the state.

17. I do this a little. I am more playful when my boys are around. More serious at work or with my husband. I wouldn't say it is completely different personalities. I think it has more to do with how comfortable I am around the people I am with. I take a while to warm up. 

18. I don't think I do this. Not something I could probably analyze about myself though. I try to be very honest at all times so I would be shocked if I actually do this. 

As for the other thread....I really think he would claim a lot of those things against me. He truly does see me as the problem. If I am, I would sure like to know!! I am open to change and self improvement. But there are some things I am not open to. Especially after having tried them. I am not open to changing every aspect of my parenting. I have done it the way I do it with very positive results. I would be willing to make some improvements, but I don't think I would do a total overhaul. That's what he wanted. But it was making my kids into my enemies. Do you think this all could revolve around my parenting and the kids?? In the end he acted jealous of the relationship I had with them. In the end I much preferred spending time with them over him. 

He is so put together on the public front. So calm. So reasonable. He appears to be the perfect husband, father, Christian, etc. It's almost mind boggling to me that there is such a different side to him. It still makes me feel crazy!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

howdouknow said:


> What if I am the problem? So, this is the list of 19 BPD about ME....


Howdo, you definitely do exhibit BPD traits. As I noted earlier, we ALL do. They are basic human behaviors -- ego defenses, actually -- that we all rely heavily on during early childhood for survival. And we continue to rely on them, at a reduced level, throughout our adult lives. They become a problem -- producing dysfunctional behaviors and undermining close relationships -- only when we exhibit them at a strong and persistent level as adults.



> You should know that he would mark me down as most of those things. And some I would agree with.


If your H really is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent traits), he likely will truly believe that all of his painful feelings and bad thoughts are coming from YOU. This is called "projection." It occurs with BPDers because they have been carrying an enormous amount of shame and self loathing since early childhood. Hence, the last thing a BPDer wants to find is one more thing that must be added to the long list of things he hates about himself.

The result is that a BPDer's subconscious mind works 24/7 to protect his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. It accomplishes this by projecting nearly all of his hurtful feelings and bad thoughts onto his partner. Because this process works entirely at the subconscious level, he will consciously be convinced that YOU are the source of those hurtful feelings, mistakes, and bad thoughts. 



> Do you think this all could revolve around my parenting and the kids??


In blended families, the greatest source of stress typically is the difference in parenting skills that the two spouses bring into the marriage. Yet, the temper tantrums and other anger issues you describe seem to go far beyond what would be expected from a difference in parenting skills.



> In the end he acted jealous of the relationship I had with them.


If he really does have strong BPD traits, that is to be expected. My BPDer exW, for example, was so jealous of my affection for my foster son that she grew to hate him. Because a BPDer has a great fear of abandonment, he likely has a powerful desire to have your full attention and have you to himself.



> He is so put together on the public front. So calm. So reasonable. He appears to be the perfect husband, father, Christian, etc. It's almost mind boggling to me that there is such a different side to him.


Again, if he is a BPDer, that is to be expected. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning people who are able to interact very well with casual friends, business associates, clients, and total strangers. The reason is that NONE of those people have drawn close enough to the BPDer to pose a threat to his abandonment fear or his engulfment fear. There is no close R/S that can be abandoned and there is no intimacy that would cause the suffocating feeling of engulfment.

This is why it is common for a BPDers to excel in very demanding professions, e.g., being a college professor, medical doctor, psychologist, social worker, or salesman. And this is why it is common for a BPDer to be generous and caring all day long with total strangers -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him.



> It still makes me feel crazy!


If you really have been living with a BPDer for nearly a year, "crazy" is exactly how you should be feeling. Because BPDers typically are convinced that the absurd allegations coming out of their mouths are absolutely true -- they generally have a greater "crazy-making" effect than can ever be achieved by narcissists or sociopaths. 

This is why that, of the 157 mental disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the _one most notorious _for making the abused partners feel like they may be losing their minds. And this is largely why therapists typically see far more of those abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going insane -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

Nothing will drive you crazier sooner than being repeatedly abused by a partner whom you know, to a certainty, must really love you. The reason is that you will be mistakenly convinced that, if only you can figure out what YOU are doing wrong, you can restore your partner to that wonderful human being you saw at the very beginning. Hence, if your H is a BPDer, it is not surprising that your very first sentence in this thread is "I am dazed and confused...."


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I will admit that would love to find the "magic cure" and get back the man I thought I was marrying. I keep looking for some glimmer or hope but at the same time I know better. Or I think I do. I am a little concerned that if he came back and apologized I would give him another chance. I feel weak.

I have a counseling appointment set up for this Friday. It's someone I have never seen before. Would you suggest I find an actual psychologist?


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

howdouknow said:


> I have a counseling appointment set up for this Friday. It's someone I have never seen before. Would you suggest I find an actual psychologist?


Yes. Any therapist who is certified and licensed to operate in your State can perform an "official diagnosis." This includes psychiatrists (who have an M.D.), psychologists (having a PhD usually in psych), and counselors and therapists (having masters' degrees). For more detail, see Dr. Hutt's explanation of the many differences at Ph.D., M.A., MFCC or MFT.

Generally, psychiatrists tend to be better at diagnosing the more serious mental disorders like schizophrenia, bipolar, and severe depression -- because they are medical doctors who prescribe the medications used to treat those disorders. In contrast, psychologists have a PhD but not a medical degree. Psychologists therefore tend to have more experience in diagnosing and treating personality disorders such as BPD and NPD.

Hence, if you decide that you are seeing a pattern of strong warning signs for BPD or NPD, I would suggest you start with a _psychologist_. As I noted, they typically excel with diagnosing such disorders. Moreover, because they lack a MD degree, they usually charge half what a psychiatrist will charge for office visits.

As is true for the professionals in any field, skill sets vary greatly among therapists. Generally, if you are seeing strong traits of a personality disorder like BPD, you will get better advice from someone having a PhD in psychology (i.e., a psychologist or psychiatrist) than someone having only a masters degree. Moreover, it is desirable that you see someone who has many years of clinical experience in treating people suffering from a PD. If your community is large enough to offer a number of psychologists or psychiatrists from which to choose, it would be prudent to do a little research to find out which one is most experienced -- by calling a trusted doctor or reading about them online. 

That said, I would not rule out seeing a therapist having only an M.S. degree if you determine that he/she has lots of experience in this area and is highly regarded by other therapists. After a therapist has had 10 or 15 years of experience treating PD sufferers, he may be more knowledgeable than a psychologist having more formal education. Absent such evidence, however, it is difficult to determine that such a therapist would be as qualified as someone having a PhD degree. Kelly Grant (columnist for _Smart Money_ and _The Wall Street Journal_) cautions:



> Couples looking to stave off a split may want to choose their expert help with care. Training and experience levels among purveyors of marriage advice run the gamut from never-took-Psych-101 to spent-more-time-in-school-than-your-doctor.... Therapists are required by states to get at least a master's degree in the discipline and a passing score on a national licensing exam.... But pretty much anyone can hang out a shingle as a marriage coach, relationship adviser or other uniquely labeled provider of "alternative marriage counseling" -- they just can't call the services "therapy." License or no, experts say the risk for consumers is that it's so easy to pick a provider who doesn't have the education or skills to solve their problems. See Ten Things Your Marriage Counselor Won't Say.


Similarly, Dr. Jim Hunt, a psychologist, states:



> There could easily be three to four hundred thousand therapists in the United States. Some are licensed, some are not; some have Ph.Ds, some do not; some have Master’s degrees, some do not; some are RNs most are not; some are psychiatrists, some are psychologists, some have an Ed.D., and some are MFCC’s, (or MFT’s, as they are so designated in some states). See M.D., Ph.D., M.A., MFCC or MFT, etc… Who are these people?.


Finally, I note that, if you suspect your H has strong BPD traits, your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion on what you're dealing with is to see YOUR OWN psychologist, i.e., one who has not seen or treated your H. That way you are ensured that the psych is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not those of your H. 

Remember, a psychologist treating your H is not your friend. He is ethically bound to protect his best interests. I mention this because therapists and psychologists generally are loath to tell a BPDer client -- much less tell his W -- the name of his true diagnosis. There are several reasons why this information is commonly withheld. I discuss those reasons in my post, Loath to Diagnose. 

Hence, whenever BPD red flags seem to be involved, it would be as foolish to seek candid advice from your H's _psychologist_ during the marriage as it would be to seek candid advice from his _attorney_ during the divorce. It is important to see a professional who is ethically bound to protect your best interests.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I don't think there is a chance in the world I can get him into a counselor of any type. I have asked and begged and he wouldn't even speak to someone at church with me about the challenges we were facing. 

He does not like counselors or anyone like them. He claims to receive all help and answers from the Bible. I am not knocking the Bible...I love the Bible....but I don't think seeking additional help is a bad thing either. He seems to think it is.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

So I guess I will go down the list of 18 for him. Maybe it will help solidify a few things for me.

1. He will claim otherwise as we have had the conversation about how kids think in black and white. It doesn't seem like he does this except to me and my kids. Or if he does, he doesn't express it to me.

2. Yes....this popped up really bad around May I would say. And hasn't let up since. Example: I asked him to not talk to one woman at church because I felt like he was flirting with her. Several times since he has said that I won't let him talk to anyone at church. Another example, we have had good road trips and bad road trips, I would say more good than bad, however he says EVERY time we go anywhere together I am mad and unpleasant. It's not the truth. He says my kids ALWAYS lie....he says that about me too at this point. The list is quite long in this area.

3. On the surface no. He is especially not jealous of other men that I can tell. I've never given him a reason to be either. Well, he was upset that I have one good male friend I talk to, although he never asked me not to. However it seems he was jealous of my kids. That continued to get worse until he left. It was extremely bad the 2 weeks before he left. Oh...and he said he didn't want to go to my uncles house again because he 'feels uncomfortable' there. My uncle and his family are my only relatives in the area.

4. He had absolutely no appreciation for the time I was putting into schooling. Which I was doing for my family....to make a better life for all of us. He occasionally would say thank you when I cooked, but most often he wouldn't eat if I cooked (and I am a pretty good cook!). He essentially called me selfish for going to school and then later for working because I didn't focus enough on my kids. My kids are my life! I only work because I have to! I would LOVE to stay home and spend more time with my kids!

5. Eh....it was more like he absolutely adored me in the beginning, but absolutely hated me in the end. There was very little adoration in the last couple of months.

6. YES! But he would say I caused the drama and be upset with me that I was upset about nothing or making a big deal out of something so trivial.

7. He never showed low self esteem. However he wouldn't look for a job and I wonder if that is because he didn't think he could get one or hold one down. His dad said for years he avoided getting a job because he didn't think he could. I guess I don't know for sure.

8. Not a hint of it in the beginning. At least not that I recognized. But in the end it was BAD. 

9. He absolutely did not like plans getting changed. Things were better when we had more time together. He did not like it when there were school activities for the kids....or really anything that took my time in which I spent with the kids. Other than that he hasn't outwardly complained about not spending time with me. Many times I didn't know what he was upset about..it could have been anything.

10. YES! I don't recall him ever taking responsibility for his circumstances. And I believed it. It was his ex wife's fault he rarely saw his kids. It was her lawyers fault that he was fired from his job or couldn't find a new one. It was the kids fault he made a mess of our whole back yard. The list is long.... 

11. I'm not sure about this one. He rarely had any money to spend unless I gave him some. But when he even had a little money, it would get spent very quickly. Example....while I was a single mom going to school we were receiving foodstamps. He wasn't working when we got married so we were still on foodstamps (sidenote: I am welfare free now!!! woohoo!!!) . Memorial Day weekend the boys and I went camping (he refused to go), my oldest son paid for most of the food because my budget was super super tight. Well we came home late Sunday night due to rain. My H had bought himself a $24 T-bone steak. Twenty four dollar for one piece of meat for one person! That is not in our budget! I thought it was very selfish move. But I kept my mouth shut.

12. Abusive no. But his ex wife rarely had sex with him. One ex gf ended up being gay. Another lied about being married and doing drugs....etc. His old jobs didn't treat him fairly....his lawyer screwed him over.... etc. Yes, he claimed I treated him good. His favorite line before we got married was, "You treat me good and you are good for me." I didn't see anything negative about that at the time. He seemed to appreciate me. 

13. We had many things in common. I guess I don't know what is true or what was a lie now. The man I thought I knew was a very good match. Our parenting styles seemed very similar, but in the long run they weren't. We had similar thoughts about budgets, roles of husbands and wives, spirituality, dreams for the future....I was honest about everything I said. I don't know if he was faking it all or what.

14. I would not say he relied on me at all for much of anything besides financial support. However he seemed to have a lot of difficulty completing anything. I didn't realize the severity of it until after we were married. There were always excuses for the unfinished projects or why he jumped to something else. Looking back I can see that trend since I met him. 

15. Again, he didn't rely on me for much of anything. Even at times when it would have been proper and appropriate to rely on me...he was more of a lone wolf. 

16. I don't know of any close friends he has. He isn't close to his brothers, sisters, father, mother, or anyone that I know of. But he is very charismatic and can talk to anyone! There are a few people he talked to on an every couple month basis, but it is casual friendship from what I can tell. Nothing in depth or super personal at all.

17. I would say it plays out as very charismatic and outgoing in the social settings, but withdrawn and quiet at home. I haven't experienced him in very many different settings. He is usually very nice and polite to waiters and waitresses but will be giving me the silent treatment the whole time we are out.

18. I would say this is accurate of him. If it is not the complete rewriting it is taking things grossly out of context, minimizing, maximizing, etc. He accused me of all sorts of things, and it seemed he truly believed what he was saying. I am not the person he said I am. I don't even have a clue where most of the accusations came from.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I misquoted. He would say, "You are good to me and good for me".


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

oh my word....I just realized something I did. When we were in the friendship phase of our relationship we discussed the whole...man is the leader of the family. If it comes down to it, he should make the final decision about something. (I know that idea is very controversial) . At the time I remember saying that if I thought my spouse was following God that I would gladly let him make the decisions. However, in reality I did not do that. 

Example: We had 4 weeks until our rental contract ended. I looked for a rental house online, made phone calls, etc. I looked at a couple of rentals. H didn't seem to be interested. He didn't even want to talk to me about it. So I found a house I really liked. I told him about it. He named all the reasons it wasn't a good fit for us. I continued to look for something cheaper, closer to where H wanted to live, etc. I found NOTHING. He basically kept telling me to have faith. When the owners of the house I liked said I could sign the lease I talked to H about it again. He said no. The house was closer to my job my 15 minutes...but 15 further from where H likes to sell stuff and help people move. The house is 6 bedrooms, plenty big enough for our family and for H's kids to visit and have their own space. Rent was affordable, although near the top of what I want to pay. All utilities are included except fuel for heating. Out in the country like we both wanted....it seemed perfect to me! H didn't want it. He found a very small 3 bed in town for the same price + utilities. By this time, we are 3 weeks from needing to move. I felt time was up and we needed to act. He didn't want to. He told me he didn't want to. However he finally relinquished when I told him it was a month to month contract and if we really found something better I was willing to move again. Ultimately though I think he was made that I took control. That I made the decision. And that I wouldn't listen to him. Was I a bad wife? I was really concerned we would not find something else that was suitable. We live in a place that rents out houses nine months in advance. That is not an exaggeration. There is a very high rental demand due to two large universities within 7 miles of each other. I was concerned we would end up in a very small yet expensive apartment, or literally with no place to live. I really didn't listen to him. And I certainly didn't trust him. He has lived out of his care before on a couple of occasions. I think that's what he is doing now...

Separately, but related still I think....H seems to have trouble making choices. Big or small, he seems to get paralyzed and not even respond to a question that involves a choice. At times he has said thats a God thing too. Like he is waiting on God for an answer and won't make a move in any direction until he gets an answer. I don't know...its really weird. He has literally done it at a stop sign before while trying to decide which was to turn. It wasn't crazy long....but unusually long for sure. It didn't even matter which way we turned because we were just out driving.


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## Satya (Jun 22, 2012)

howdouknow said:


> Why do I let him get to me!!!? I took a load of stuff up to where he has storage unit today. I had reason to believe he wouldn't be there, so I was just going to drop it off. However, I was wrong...he was there having a "garage sale" out of the unit. And stupid me, instead of driving by, I stopped. This is the first time I have seen him since Sept 5th. I asked him to talk to me. I asked him if he wanted a divorce. He said no. I asked him why he ignored me for a week solid....he said cause he didn't want to talk to me. I asked why he won't talk about the marriage and he said he refuses to talk to me while I am extorting him with his belongings. Which I am not...I am trying to get it back to him, but he rarely responds to me so it makes arrangements rather difficult.
> 
> A little background...H had been using a truck that belongs to my oldest son. The thought was that H could probably just have the truck because son doesn't need it. However, H never put the truck into his name. When H left, he left the truck here. Son was in an accident and his daily driver is not driveable. SO 5 days after H left, son asked if he could take the truck with him. H was not communicating with me AT ALL, so I told my son to take his truck home since he needed it and H didn't seem to need it or want it.
> 
> ...


This ^ is plain and simple drama you don't need. 

Read this again, from the perspective of a person that's your good, dear friend.

Stop engaging him. He is on a mission, and it's not one of diplomacy.


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## PieceOfSky (Apr 7, 2013)

goodtherapy.org and psychologytoday.com having searchable profiles of mental healthcare providers.

In my major metropolitan area, there are just a couple that claim in their profiles expertise with BPD. Maybe a few more claim competency with DBT (dialectical behavior therapy), which was created by some focused on treating folks with BPD.

I would frame initial conversations with your therapist as "I am urgently seeking some seasoned and objective perspective on what I am up against. I assume and accept there is room for me to grow in the service of my life. One important aspect of this is --at this time -- I need someone I can trust and with true wisdom in working with people exhibiting his sort of behaviors in various degrees -- to enlighten me and keep me honest in my thinking about him. I fear I might have fooled myself (if I have, I intend to work on that), and want to avoid wishful thinking."

All sorts of providers can misread a new patient's intentions by projecting other patient's motives onto him or her. Lots of people enter therapy hoping to find an expert to pile on more justification for feeling "it is him, not me, isn't it?" -- when often enough that is not the case. And, so, I can see how a therapist could lose objectivity or have initial biases. What I suggest is the only meager attempt I can come up with to attempt to defuse potential for being misread. YMMV.

Trouble is, sometimes it is the case the other has a PD. IMHO you are better off with someone who has significant experience with dealing with PDs. And, be educate yourself

Btw, see outofthefog.net
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you for the links. I will check them out.

I guess I want justification if there is a reason to have it. But I am just as interested in getting help for myself...especially if I am the problem and don't realize it. :/


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

howdouknow said:


> Now...H is extremely mad that son took the truck home (he lives about 2.5 hours away). H compared the importance of our marriage to the ownership of the truck.


I'm being honest, here.

What supposed grown-ass MAN needs to depend on his wife's young adult son to provide a truck for him? Is he that stupid that he thinks he's *entitled *to your kid providing for him?



> Anyways talking certainly DID NOT WORK. He continues to blame EVERYTHING on me. He says it might have been wrong to ignore me for a week, but it's his right to decide if he wants to talk to me or not. I guess it is his 'right' but it's not acceptable in a marriage imo.


And it's* your* 'right' to dump 180 pounds of worthless flesh in divorce court.

So it kind of evens out.:laugh:


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Do yourself and your children a favor... don't let him come back, and file for divorce. Your kids don't deserve to live in a home where someone treats them badly and resents them, and where their mother is also mistreated. Don't think about yourself, think of what is best for your kids...HE isn't best for your kids. 

I cant decide if he is mentally unbalanced, or a cheater, or both. Probably both! The man did you a HUGE favor by leaving. Let him stay gone.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I know you are all right....I wish it made it hurt less. He has been gone three weeks and two days now. Despite all the emotions I have been going through, my kids are doing well. Very well. I guess I should have expected that! They feel bad that I am sad, but I think they are perfectly happy that he is gone.

I am really hoping he doesn't try to fight anything in court. I just want it all done with. The court date is set for Dec. 30th.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> I don't think there is a chance in the world I can get him into a counselor of any type. I have asked and begged and he wouldn't even speak to someone at church with me about the challenges we were facing.
> 
> He does not like counselors or anyone like them. He claims to receive all help and answers from the Bible. I am not knocking the Bible...I love the Bible....but I don't think seeking additional help is a bad thing either. He seems to think it is.


Since you're separating and divorcing, it doesn't really matter if he gets counselling or not. But this statement really shows you why you don't want to take him back. Nothing would change!



howdouknow said:


> Separately, but related still I think....H seems to have trouble making choices. Big or small, he seems to get paralyzed and not even respond to a question that involves a choice. At times he has said thats a God thing too. Like he is waiting on God for an answer and won't make a move in any direction until he gets an answer. I don't know...its really weird. He has literally done it at a stop sign before while trying to decide which was to turn. It wasn't crazy long....but unusually long for sure. It didn't even matter which way we turned because we were just out driving.


This tells you that you are going to have to be the one to do all the divorce paperwork.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Since you're separating and divorcing, it doesn't really matter if he gets counselling or not. But this statement really shows you why you don't want to take him back. Nothing would change!
> 
> 
> 
> This tells you that you are going to have to be the one to do all the divorce paperwork.


Divorce paperwork DONE!! Hoping he is too indecisive....or busy....or whatever to fight it!!


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

HowDo, as I noted above, it is easy to identify various types of behavior (e.g., temper tantrums and irrational jealousy) as BPD symptoms because hundreds of mental health centers try to educate the lay public by describing those same symptoms at their websites. Moreover, after dating your H for a year and a half and living with him for 9 months, it should be easy for you to identify which BPD symptoms he exhibited at a strong level. I therefore found it interesting to see which of the 18 BPD Warning Signs you identified as being strong in post #67 above. 

The ones you label _strong_ are (1) black-white thinking, (2) frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions, (3) irrational jealousy (of your kids), (4) no lasting appreciation of your sacrifices, (5) flipping (once) from adoring you to hating you, (6) frequently creating drama over minor issues, (8) verbal abuse and temper tantrums, (9) intolerant of changed plans and sharing you with others (i.e., your kids), (10) always being "The Victim," (14) uncompleted projects and no firm goals, (16) no close long-term friends, and (18) always convinced his intense feelings are facts that reflect reality.

The symptoms you are _uncertain abou_t are (7) low self esteem, (11) lack of impulse control, (13) mirroring your personality and preferences during the courtship, and (17) acting differently around a variety of people by mirroring their personalities.

The symptoms you label _weak or nonexistent_ are (12) complaining that all previous GFs were abusive and (15) relying on you to calm him down.

Because you identify most BPD warning signs (i.e., 12 of 18) as strong, you seem to be describing a strong pattern of BPD behaviors. Moreover, that pattern is even stronger if -- after reconsidering traits (7), (13) and (17) -- you later decide that some of them are strong too. You may wish to reconsider trait (7), for example, if his Dad is correct that his refusal to look for jobs is caused by low self esteem. And you may wish to reconsider trait (17) if you decide his ability to be so charismatic around total strangers arises from an ability to mirror their personalities and preferences.

I caution that, although you should be able to identify strong BPD symptoms, you are not capable of determining whether your H "has full-blown BPD." Only a professional can determine whether his symptoms are so severe and persistent that they meet the standard set by the psychiatric community for satisfying the needs of courts, psychiatric hospitals, and insurance companies.

Further, you also are incapable of diagnosing BPD. Indeed, nobody on the planet can do a real diagnosis of BPD or any other PD. That would require professionals to identify its underlying cause, which is yet unproven. All discussions of BPD symptoms, then, are simply discussions about behavioral symptoms, not diagnosis -- i.e., not in the way the term "diagnosis" is used in every medical field.

Importantly, you don't go to a medical doctor to be told what symptoms you have. Instead, YOU tell the doctor all about your symptoms. And, when you go to an auto repair shop, you don't go to be told about your car's symptoms. Rather, YOU tell the repairman what problems the car is exhibiting and he diagnoses the problems so as to tell you the _cause_ of those symptoms. 

Hence, whereas _diagnosing a cause_ is the province of professionals, _describing and identifying symptoms_ is the province of laymen (i.e., the client seeking help). Consequently, when a patient is unable to identify disease symptoms, that disease is said to be "asymptomatic," i.e., "without symptoms." 

By definition, then, symptoms are traits that laymen are able to spot. This is why hundreds of mental institutions and hospitals describe the symptoms for NPD and BPD on their public websites. They know that, when laymen are able to spot these symptoms, they are far more likely to seek treatment -- for themselves or for their loved ones -- and to do so much sooner.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you Uptown...always insightful.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

My case seems open and shut. Black and white. He's no good, be happy he is gone. Get over it.

If only it was that simple. My mind tells me that I am better off. That it doesn't matter what he is doing or who he is with. My heart begs for who he was to come back. My friends are probably tired of listening to me go on. Oh how I wish I could just turn if off. I wish I could stop from feeling...stop from thinking...stop from wishing.

He was at the store tonight. Yep...I approached him and asked him if we are ever going to talk. He went right back to 'his stuff'. Is that really all that matters to him?? 

It is clear he is living somewhere. He is clean shaven, he hair is fixed nicely, his clothes are clean. It's been one month today since he left. He was buying kids toys....for his kids? Maybe. For another womens kids? I almost think that is more likely. It would be so much easier if he would just tell the truth. Whatever it is. If he doesn't love me...if he never loved me...if there is someone else....if he hates me....whatever it is I wish he would just SAY IT!!! Part of me thinks it is just more emotional torture. That that is the real reason he won't talk. It would be so much easier for me if I just heard him tell me how it is. 

He has until Oct 13th to respond to the divorce papers. My birthday is the 12th....I have a feeling that will be his birthday present to me. Most likely at work cause he knows I won't be able to hold back the tears. I was thinking about going out of town for the 12th and 13th just to not have to deal with that possibility on my birthday. Good idea or bad idea?

I am tired of hurting. He isn't even from this town....I wish he would leave.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What are you doing for yourself? Exercising? Visiting friends?


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Not much. I work full time. Get home, take care of kids, help them with homework. This past weekend we went and did a couple things as a family. That was nice. 

I play volleyball once a week with a group of friends.

I started seeing a counselor. My first appointment was this past Friday. I will see her again this Friday.


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## NotEasy (Apr 19, 2015)

Do your workmates know about the divorce? I suggest maybe telling a few and also warn them you might get the papers back at work and cry. Better to tell them now than have unexpected tears and be embarrassed as well. Anyone who knows a tenth of the details here would be stepping forward to comfort you and perhaps congratulate you for getting rid of him.

Or just don't be at work those two days.

Keep doing things with your kids and talking with them. Probably you all need more normal family time.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

howdouknow said:


> My case seems open and shut. Black and white. He's no good, be happy he is gone. Get over it.
> 
> If only it was that simple. My mind tells me that I am better off. That it doesn't matter what he is doing or who he is with. My heart begs for who he was to come back. My friends are probably tired of listening to me go on. Oh how I wish I could just turn if off. I wish I could stop from feeling...stop from thinking...stop from wishing.
> 
> ...


His version doesn't even matter, he probably doesn't even know his own thoughts and feelings. He just knows that he gets off on playing you and hurting you. So instead of focusing on him "telling you how it is", make your life YOUR version of how it is. That you and your kids deserve a life that is free of emotional abuse, however that needs to happen. Its ok to mourn for what you had expected for your life, but you cannot stay in it and wallow. Remember if he came back, it would be the same as before he left, and you'd have to do this all over again. Don't do that to yourself or to your kids. 

Hang in there, you will get through it, I promise!


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

No, my coworkers don't know. I don't do well with sympathy in person. And I don't know them all that well, I have only been there since the end of June. I have told very few people at all. My kids know...well how can they not?? My closest friend knows. I haven't told my family. I am very embarrassed about this.

Anyways....I am almost positive he is already living with someone. He was buying toys the other day when I saw him at the store. Little kid toys, not something he would buy for his own kids. Geeze I wish I could warn the poor woman!! He is so smooth. So wonderful in the beginning. Everything a woman would want for herself and her kids. He is too good at his game. Just vulnerable enough. Knows all the right things to say and do. I wouldn't have believed it back then if someone told me the truth about him. No way. 

Hey...does anybody know if the 20 days response time in court documents is business days or straight time?


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Hon, you have GOT to tell people in your life. LET them help you. They will WANT to. Ok?


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Yes I need to tell people. I am so embarrassed.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

Do not be embarrassed. 

What I see from your story is a woman who is taking steps to get herself out of a bad situation that was in no way her fault. Your story is positive for you, not negative. 

Anyone can find themselves in a bad situation. What shows character is the strength to find your way out. 




howdouknow said:


> Yes I need to tell people. I am so embarrassed.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you uhtred. I really appreciate that. 

So...I told more friends and my family tonight. Her is an awesome quote from one of my very close friends, "I had a patient come in today has smoked for 40 years a pack a day and hasn't had his teeth cleaned for more than 20 years now you don't have to be a dental hygienist to know that that is going to be one messed-up mouth. Just like you don't have to be a counselor or an expert to know that he is an unhealthy individual that should be handled carefully so take care of yourself protect yourself and don't put up with that s***"

She is an awesome friend!


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I have attached a some pages from a book I just finished reading. A lot of him describes him to a T!! It would be interested for anyone to read who's spouse makes them feel crazy. Yes, that is my writing, underlining, etc. 

By the way...he has talked more the last two days than he has the last month. It's all directed towards MY issues and what I would have to do to fix things. He really does not accept any fault in this. He has still not apologized for any of his actions...not a single one. 

I really don't want him back. What i want is for him to see reality for what it is!! I am not trying to act like I am perfect and have no fault. I have certainly not reacted in the best ways. Just ranting I guess. His latest attacks on me have been about my spirituality, or lack there of in his opinion.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Some never see reality. Ignore him.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Hey all. Just an update. Its been 8 weeks today. Nothing is new. Nothing is different. He still won't talk about it. Really the only dialog is me asking when we will talk and him saying how awful I am. The pain and heartache is less severe. Time heals all....right? I still cry more than I want. I still miss the man I married. I still (and probably always will) wonder why he married me in the first place. Nine months is a joke to say he tried. 

I'll just keep working on me. It's all I can do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What did you expect? You haven't changed anything. You haven't strived for better. You haven't demanded more. Of course nothing has changed.

I AM curious though: in what ways are you 'working on you?'


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

Stop trying to talk with him about things, the only thing that does is keep him pushed away, and you will not be able to discuss any parenting plans or anything with him that way. Go file for divorce if you haven't yet, and get it moving. Seems he isn't coming back and hard as it may be, you need to accept that fact and try to move forward. 

Oh...and remind yourself that its better this way. You and your kids can live in peace.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

turnera said:


> What did you expect? You haven't changed anything. You haven't strived for better. You haven't demanded more. Of course nothing has changed.
> 
> I AM curious though: in what ways are you 'working on you?'


Geeze....that sounds exactly like my husband! Honestly can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic. 





I am seeing a counselor....working on self esteem. Trying to understand that I can love myself as I am and that that won't make me complacent. I am trying to be present in the moment...with my kids, work, etc. 

I am trying to learn to balance between giving all the time I have to my kids and taking time for myself. 

Reading...lots of reading and writing. Trying to determine what my faults were in the marriage so I can make changes as needed. 

I guess that's it. I don't know how to fit more into my schedule right now. Time constraints are frustrating.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

howdouknow said:


> Nine months is a joke to say *he tried*.


NO, HE HAS !

He's trialed, *tried* and convicted.

Soon to be sentenced to solitary confinement.....alone, in the dark. Left in his cell with a small knife to carve Roman Numerals on the cold wall, that chronicle his days.

Nine months? His progeny emerges with a plop on the floor. Tis' a blind slug...a mirror image of the sire himself.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

howdouknow said:


> Geeze....that sounds exactly like my husband! Honestly can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic.
> 
> I am seeing a counselor....working on self esteem. Trying to understand that I can love myself as I am and that that won't make me complacent. I am trying to be present in the moment...with my kids, work, etc.
> 
> ...


First, have you read The Dance Of Anger yet? If not, you should read this before anything else. 

Second, this situation doesn't require you figuring out how YOU screwed up the marriage. It requires you figuring out how you accepted your spouse's mistreatment. How did you come to believe they had the right to do so? 

btw, I was being serious. You continued to accept poor treatment, and your response was to figure out what YOU are doing wrong.

Nothing will change until you decide you deserve more.

You acknowledge that he was abusive; so spend more of your time that you DO have available learning what living with abuse does to you. I'm sure you've read about that; how the victim loses all self respect, self worth, blames herself. So focus in on the end result of how you ended up, instead of figuring out what YOU did wrong. That way, you don't waste time.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

turnera said:


> First, have you read The Dance Of Anger yet? If not, you should read this before anything else.
> 
> Second, this situation doesn't require you figuring out how YOU screwed up the marriage. It requires you figuring out how you accepted your spouse's mistreatment. How did you come to believe they had the right to do so?
> 
> ...


THE KIDS DESERVE MORE...that fact alone should be motivating enough! 

Its good that you are reading and working on yourself so that you don't allow this to happen with another man in the future. Stop blaming yourself for him being a d!ck.


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## See_Listen_Love (Jun 28, 2012)

howdouknow said:


> I am seeing a counselor....working on self esteem. Trying to understand that I can love myself as I am and that that won't make me complacent. I am trying to be present in the moment...with my kids, work, etc.
> 
> I am trying to learn to balance between giving all the time I have to my kids and taking time for myself.
> 
> ...


This is a positive direction you enter here. I would only like suggest you very much limit looking at your faults in the past.

It is important to evaluate WITHOUT SELF JUDGEMENT your situation and behavior at present, define where you want to be in the future, and set only the first step in that direction. Focus on only one step. When you succeed in that step, look again what the next step will be. 

(The without self judgement does not mean it was not bad, only that to enhance it is not very useful to feel more bad feelings, it is much better to start feeling good feelings about yourself because you took a new right step.)

I am just a layman on this, but I heard advise like this before, and think it can change your situation fast.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Best ways to improve self esteem (learn to love yourself):
Try new things - teaches you not to fear the world, but to embrace it
Accomplish something - knowing you can build a table, throw some pottery, get an A in a class fills you with pride and self love, a little at a time; the more you accomplish, the better you love yourself
Therapy - believe it or not, therapists really DO know more than we do about fixing ourselves; they go through at least six years of specialized courses and know what works in most situations
Journaling - you'll be surprised how much you learn about yourself just be reading back where you were 'at' at a given time; the perspective helps you detach from that person and become more objective
Exercise - proven to increase health levels, improve your feelings about your looks (= value), and give you energy 
Dress better - it really does make a difference to dress well, to look attractive when you're out and about (or even when you're just at home), to spend a little money on a nice piece of jewelry because you deserve it, and so on
Spend more time with friends - friends validate you and your worth, show you that you're someone people like and maybe even would want to date down the road; you'll never see these things unless you get out with friends


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## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

howdouknow said:


> We were friends and/or dated for a year and a half before getting married. We were married in January 2016. Now...just 9 months later and he is gone ... done ...it's over. He was a thoughtful and kind man.


File for an ANNULMENT fast. The clock is running out of time.

If this story is 100% true, then this guy is a raving fvcking lunatic.

Or he's cheating on you. Either way, for your kids sake, you need to RUN.

Chalk it up to up to a bad decision you can erase if you move quickly.

Get to a lawyer and file before it's too late. He's a loser, you're better off.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Thank you for all of the advice from the last time I wrote. I took some time to mull things over...figure a few things out. So here's the latest....

1) Started exercising...just a little and I will increase over time...baby steps in that area!

2) My counselor is helpful...reading and learning is very helpful...my friends are the most helpful in reminding me of who I am versus who my stbx would like me to believe I am.

3) I have been working on what is fact and what is fiction that my stbx says. He has this horribly amazing way of taking a little tiny truth and wrapping it up in a big ball of nonsense. I latch onto the little bit of truth he states and then swallow the whole ball. Not anymore. Everyday I become more aware of his tactics. He is trying to destroy me emotionally and I am not falling for it anymore!

4) Still working on establishing new goals. My goal for many years was getting my degree...that happened this past May and after my husband left, I have realized how important it is to have a long term goal. Some obvious ones....get my PE (Professional Engineer) license in 4 years when I am eligible to take the test. Buy a house. 

5) The divorce will be final 2 weeks from today. I still don't want it. But I realize it's what needs to happen.

6) I still need to figure out how to be more compassionate with myself. I need to work on taking better care of me and really loving myself. It's been a lifelong issue and I realize I do not value myself enough. I struggle to give myself credit for my own accomplishments and see my own strengths. 

I really really let my stbx in my head. My self esteem was already low and then it hit near rock bottom and I blamed myself for nearly all of the issues in the relationship. He still tries to pin it all on me every chance he gets. Talking to his ex-wife has been beneficial for both of us. Having someone else experience the exact same issues with him validates us....if that makes sense. lol She is a good woman who stayed with him for 14 years! I cannot even imagine dealing with him for that long....nine months was near torturous after he flipped from complete nice guy to domineering 'victim'! 

I am really trying to focus on the future and let go of the past. My kids are doing great. My job is going well. Life is good aside from this mess with my stbx. It will be over soon. I am still torn up about it. But I realize I can continue to mourn and still move on. It's all a process.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sounds like you're doing well. To be compassionate...try to image what you would do if you had nobody else in your life. Try to image where you'd go if you had more money than you could spend. Try to think back to when you were a kid. Do THAT stuff.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

10 days until d-day... and he informs me that we should not get divorced but rather be separated long term and that he has no desire to come back. I have no idea what goes through that mans head. He acts as though he hates me....rarely communicates with me...doesn't wear his wedding band...but wants to stay married?? For what purpose??


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> 10 days until d-day... and he informs me that we should not get divorced but rather be separated long term and that he has no desire to come back. I have no idea what goes through that mans head. He acts as though he hates me....rarely communicates with me...doesn't wear his wedding band...but wants to stay married?? For what purpose??


So he can manipulate other women. "Sure, I love you but I can't put a ring on it, I'm still married to my evil ex who won't grant me a divorce. Woe is me, woe woe woe, a nice BJ will cheer me up."

Push the divorce through. There could be financial ramifications if you don't.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

I didn't even think of that. It made me laugh...and kinda want to cry....and I can totally see that. 

So I asked him (all via email since that is the only way we communicate right now)....if you want to be married...why aren't you wearing your wedding ring?

His response, "To me it represents honesty, trust, loyalty, etc. I don't have that and i don't want to b reminded of It all day long."

And I know that was intended to mean that I am not honest, trustworthy, and loyal...so my reply was, "I suppose it would be awful to be reminded of your own failures on a constant basis. However that is an excuse. What it represents is that YOU ARE A MARRIED MAN, and from what I can tell you don't want to live the life of a married man. I have no idea...zero...zip...as to why you want to remain married. Will you please explain that?" 

The next email I get will most likely ask why he should continue to communicate with me when I am so mean to him...it seems he can be as mean as he wants, however I am expected to be all sugar and smiles not matter what.... 

Seriously this man....I really do wonder what makes him think I would want to or be willing to stay married to him at this point.....???


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

As expected....his response, "I answered the question out of courtesy knowing u would spew poison in rebuttle as u have so many times in the past." 

So it's poison when I use his exact words against him, but not when he says it to me? Wow.

Ok, please do tell me if I am the one who is wrong about this....


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## SunnyT (Jun 22, 2011)

Stop emailing even. It is so pointless. 

Sometimes, we don't get to understand. It is ridiculously frustrating....at first. 

It's still new. It will get easier. It's already easier in the household, it's easier on your kids....and it really is easier for you on a day to day basis than it was when he lived there. 

Quit asking/inviting about his riddles. It doesn't even matter what he says. 

Just let it go. Disengage.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

I agree. 

There's no point in trying to communicate wth him.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Why is it so damn difficult for me to do that!?? I KNOW I am better off not dealing with his issues....I KNOW I should disengage. I KNOW that the divorce is what needs to happen...it's like an awful horrible addiction.


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## Cynthia (Jan 31, 2014)

howdouknow said:


> Why is it so damn difficult for me to do that!?? I KNOW I am better off not dealing with his issues....I KNOW I should disengage. I KNOW that the divorce is what needs to happen...it's like an awful horrible addiction.


I believe it's spiritual. You gave yourself to him. In order to break the bond you have to renounce and reject his "ownership" of you. (for lack of a better word) You bound yourself to him for life. Now you have to make a declaration in order to unbind yourself from him. Then you have to make a declaration that you are free from bondage to him and you are a single woman (not legally yet, but now in the process of making it legal).

Edit to add: You are a Christian, correct? If so, I can write you a prayer that might help you to do this. I'm not subscribed to your thread, so you you can send me a pm if you'd like me to do this for you.


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

howdouknow said:


> Why is it so damn difficult for me to do that!?? I KNOW I am better off not dealing with his issues....I KNOW I should disengage. I KNOW that the divorce is what needs to happen...it's like an awful horrible addiction.


I believe we can become addicted and then we lead with our heart and not our head. 

Breaking that addiction takes time. Disengaging is the first step.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Yep...heart still wants to stay married...willing to keep going through all of this for the slight possibility of a positive outcome someday. Head says DIVORCE ASAP!!! And basically I hate it all right now....every bit of it.


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## sokillme (Jun 10, 2016)

howdouknow said:


> Yep...heart still wants to stay married...willing to keep going through all of this for the slight possibility of a positive outcome someday. Head says DIVORCE ASAP!!! And basically I hate it all right now....every bit of it.


Listen to your head, your heart has no brain, but it will catch up.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can always get back together later, if there's a good enough reason. For now, do what you need to do.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Against everyone's advice...I met him to talk. He finally agreed to talk in person for the first time since he left. It was EXACTLY what I needed! He admitted to being verbally and emotionally abusive. He admitted to being a hypocrite. He admitted to many many things. And then he proceeded to tell me he has not and will not seek help. But he wanted to know what I have done, am doing, and will do to fix my issues. It was more of the same garbage...he doesn't need to change...but I do. The divorce is my fault. Etc...etc...etc... I caught him in multiple lies while we sat there talking. He skated around so many questions refusing to directly answer them. 

He was royally pissed off that I sent his kids gift cards for Christmas even though (or maybe especially since) he didn't do anything for them. His kids know nothing about us getting a divorce. He hasn't told his family...etc. 

So....tomorrow at 9am I will be in court for the divorce. I have a feeling he will show up and try to pull something. I hope not. 

I really needed the talk. It was like I needed to see once and for all that this is who he is. That it wasn't errors and miscommunication in email. I needed to see that he is aware of his issues and simply does not care and will not take responsibility for them. The last thing he said to me was, "Go to hell." Such a loving christian man he is....

I am settled. I am at peace. Tomorrow I will no longer me attached to this man in any way.


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## 3Xnocharm (Jun 22, 2012)

I am so glad for you that you were able to get this...closure?... confirmation? Now you can move forward, good luck with your court date.


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## DoneThinking (Aug 31, 2016)

There comes a moment when the pain of staying is worse than the pain of leaving.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

It is done. He emailed me late last night and this morning...essentially trying to guilt trip me into not going through with it. Had he apologized and agreed to get help it might have worked, so I guess I should be glad that he continued using the same methods. He did not show up to court.

It is done. It is finished. I am still sad. I will continue to grieve. But it is nice to not have it hanging over my head and looming....if that makes sense. 

So...on goes life. Time to love myself completely and take care of me. This is my time now. I have happy healthy kids and a good job. It can only get better from here, right?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

@howdouknow

I'm so glad to read your update. I'm so happy for you that you can move on now.

I wanted to share this with you because I think this is possibly the disorder your ex-h has:

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD) ? Out of the FOG

In sharing this with you, I urge you NOT to consider sharing this with your ex-h or to use it in anyway to try to help him "get better".

This is hopefully just so that you can understand the reality you had with him and why he acts the way he does. It may help you feel less crazy about the whole mess and your part in it.

People who love someone with a personality disorder have a really hard time because being with that person makes them feel insane, and it is almost impossible to describe to another person who hasn't witnessed it how the PD person affects you and the things they do. 

The PD people themselves usually have no awareness that there is anything wrong with them, and with OCPD in particular, NOT BEING WRONG about ANYTHING is one of the main aspects of the PD.

There is nothing you could have done better or differently. The fact that you got out this early in the game is a life saver for you and your children, which I hope you will feel fully one day.

Again sorry you have gone through this and I hope by what I've shared you get a tiny bit of peace that it was never you and there was no chance your love for him could have made him "better".

((((hugs))))


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

sokillme said:


> Listen to your head, your heart has no brain, but it will catch up.


Simple enough to say, yet probably one of the more profound thoughts I've read in my time here.

You should make that into your signature.


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## howdouknow (Jun 20, 2016)

Wow...yes...many of those describe him very well. It still amazes me how much he got into my mind and was able to essentially control me. I went to a counselor for months telling her that he was wonderful and that all the issues were because of me...talk about feeling crazy! Once I finally saw him for who he is at his been a continuous process of stepping out of the fog. Sometimes it was two steps forward and three steps back. So glad the divorce is done. I have no obligation to talk to him...love him...try to fix him.... None of it helped anyways. He is a man with severe issues. I may not have been a perfect wife...but the divorce was not my fault. The major issues were not my fault.


***sigh of relief*** free from him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Yes keep walking forward....don't walk back....forward, forward, forward!!! Good job.


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