# Virginity



## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.

Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm surprised you care, since it really doesn't matter.


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## Max.HeadRoom (Jun 28, 2014)

No we can not but she can tell you. Not all women are born with a hymn and most of those that are get broking/torn just by growing up, everyday activities like running, climbing, and tampon use. Intact hymns are a male myth.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Don't know much about this but maybe you are a bit on the small side to be able to insert your thingy and her still not know if she is a virgin or not?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?


Since you have already taken her virginity, whether or not she had a hymen is a moot point which is no longer relevant.

You must treat her well.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

It matters to me.alot since it's in tradition. Its not that tight either...


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

It is traditional that you do not have sexual intercourse before marriage.

Also why would it be tight? That's actually something of a myth.

As I said, you must treat her well.

When will you be marrying her?


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

MattMatt said:


> It is traditional that you do not have sexual intercourse before marriage.
> 
> Also why would it be tight? That's actually something of a myth.
> 
> ...


Already did


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Fanman said:


> Already did


Did you talk about your histories before getting married? Are you on the same page regarding notions of privacy and boundaries? It seems Iike you may not know the woman you married very well. Was this an arranged marriage?


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

You say "there was little blood" 
So she did bleed the first time you had sexual intercourse?

I'm female, I did not bleed when I lost my virginity. Or rather, the blood loss was that insignificant, that I doubt my partner at the time would have even been aware, I certainly wasn't.

What has tightness got to do with virginity? 
A woman has the parts she has.
Arousal will cause the muscles of the vaginal wall to relax/loosen, allowing for easy penetration.
Tightness would indicate tension or anxiety.
Vaginas are elastic and can stretch to double their size during sex.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

EveningThoughts said:


> You say "there was little blood"
> So she did bleed the first time you had sexual intercourse?
> 
> I'm female, I did not bleed when I lost my virginity. Or rather, the blood loss was that insignificant, that I doubt my partner at the time would have even been aware, I certainly wasn't.
> ...


She did but before that I was able to put 2 fingers inside and she didn't bleed. M thinking whether she put coloring in or something like that..


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## EveningThoughts (Jul 12, 2018)

Fanman said:


> She did but before that I was able to put 2 fingers inside and she didn't bleed. M thinking whether she put coloring in or something like that..


Are you saying that your penis is the same size as two of your fingers? 

How big is a tampon, how far up do they have to be inserted? 

Does fingering or tampon use mean you have had sex and are no longer a virgin?

How many women reach adulthood these days with an intact hymen? They get thinner over the years, and break of their own accord not just through sex. 
Maybe a child bride might still have a full hymen, but the older you get, the less likely this is.
Virginity does not equate to having a hymen. That would be ridiculously unfair, and even unachievable in many cases, seeing as some are born without one anyway.
Virginity means not having had sexual intercourse. It does not mean having a hymen still present.

I hope to Allah, God, the universe, whoever you believe in, that your poor wife hasn't been put under pressure to not only remain a virgin, but also to perform some strange ritual in order to perpetuate some ridiculous notion that a hymen and blood must be present during a first sexual experience.
The odds of these two things being present in an adult woman's first time of penetration can't possibly be guaranteed. 
Life is not that simple.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

It's in thier culture. But that's how it says it should be there should be blood with 2 fingers and no my **** is bigger then 2 fingers


EveningThoughts said:


> Are you saying that your penis is the same size as two of your fingers?
> 
> How big is a tampon, how far up do they have to be inserted?
> 
> ...


PIt's in thier culture. But that's how it says it should be there should be blood with 2 fingers and no my **** is bigger then 2 fingers


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

My answer is YES, she was still a virgin.

My first husband touched inside me ALOT when I was still a virgin before we actually had sex, and I never bled from his fingers, and it never hurt when he put them inside me.
When we finally had sex, it hurt alot at first, and there was some blood.

So it is possible for the "blood with two fingers" rule to be WRONG.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

She dose


EveningThoughts said:


> Are you saying that your penis is the same size as two of your fingers?
> 
> How big is a tampon, how far up do they have to be inserted?
> 
> ...


She doesn't use a tampoon


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

EveningThoughts said:


> Are you saying that your penis is the same size as two of your fingers?
> 
> How big is a tampon, how far up do they have to be inserted?
> 
> ...


She doesn't use a tampoon


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> My answer is YES, she was still a virgin.
> 
> My first husband touched inside me ALOT when I was still a virgin before we actually had sex, and I never bled from his fingers, and it never hurt when he put them inside me.
> When we finally had sex, it hurt alot at first, and there was some blood.
> ...


Did he put two fingers inside? But she looks at other guys that's what pisses me off like that eye contacts etc it's like wtf if she didn't do that I wouldn't be like that


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

manfromlamancha said:


> Don't know much about this but maybe you are a bit on the small side to be able to insert your thingy and her still not know if she is a virgin or not?


Misinformation. Large guys can tell if a woman is a virgin or not and smaller guys can't???



MattMatt said:


> Since you have already taken her virginity, whether or not she had a hymen is a moot point which is no longer relevant.
> 
> You must treat her well.


I think he's asking if she is a virgin. That's the point of the thread. Where does it say that he's established the he took her virginity?



EveningThoughts said:


> Tightness would indicate tension or anxiety.


Um...no. This is potentially harmful misinformation. So if a woman is tight, she's got emotional problems (tension and anxiety...maybe she's "uptight")??? Not a good message to be giving to women or men. Sorry but this is as ignorant as saying that if a woman is loose she's promiscuous. Obviously extreme tightness can be a medical problem but that's not what we're talking about at all here. 

This thread shows that there is a lot of misinformation out there about this stuff so I don't think we should be adding more, no matter how well meaning.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You're questioning if she was a virgin because she is now meeting the gaze of other guys? Is that forbidden in her culture (which would be?). Are you of a different culture? Are you trying to find a loophole to exit the marriage?


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

Personally, I find your attitude towards your new bride appalling.

First you question her virginity, and now she flirts with random strangers. You seem determined to turn her into a *****.

How do you think all this makes her feel?

On her wedding night, instead of being cherished and adored and made to feel special, you spent your time together obsessing over how many fingers you could get inside her and how tight she wasn't. How disgusting.

Your precious wife _is not_ the issue - you are.

You need to master yourself and grow up. Be a better man.

Instead of focusing on what a disappointment she is, deal with your anger and paranoia.

Again - you are the problem. And, considering your location, I truly hope no harm has come to this young woman.



Fanman said:


> Did he put two fingers inside? But she looks at other guys that's what pisses me off like that eye contacts etc it's like wtf if she didn't do that I wouldn't be like that


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> Misinformation. Large guys can tell if a woman is a virgin or not and smaller guys can't???
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is your suggestions that she should be tight?


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> You're questioning if she was a virgin because she is now meeting the gaze of other guys? Is that forbidden in her culture (which would be?). Are you of a different culture? Are you trying to find a loophole to exit the marriage?


I m of the same culture and in our culture it's very important to have virginity


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Fanman said:


> She did but before that I was able to put 2 fingers inside and she didn't bleed. M thinking whether she put coloring in or something like that..


OMG! You have an appallingly-low view of your wife and sexuality in general. You do not sound like you’re ready for a long term relationship as equals, much less marriage.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I feel sorry for this poor woman. I hope things go well for her.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

As a woman, I'm so thankful to live far away from a culture like yours.

This is absolutely terrible!!


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## Enigma32 (Jul 6, 2020)

Tightness has nothing to do with virginity or even promiscuity. We are born with what we have. Just like my penis doesn't get bigger with each new sexual partner, a vagina does not get more loose with each man. 

A lot of girls lose their hymen from physical activity before they lose their virginity. 

No one here knows whether or not your wife was actually a virgin.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> I m of the same culture and in our culture it's very important to have virginity


Have you ever pulled a muscle? Maybe playing sports? For women, they hymen can be ripped or ruptured though non-sexual physical activity. This means that a woman can still be a virgin without her husband rupturing her hymen on their wedding night.

If having a virgin bride is part of your culture, then it's also likely that male access to young single women is also somewhat controlled, and that's where you should be looking in more depth. If your bride has had many boyfriends, that increases the chances that she's not a virgin. If her parents controlled access to her, and you are the first man who they allowed to court her, then that increases the chances that she is a virgin.

Here in the West, most people disclose their past sexual and romantic relationships. What do you know of your bride's past romantic history?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> What is your suggestions that she should be tight?


Kegal exercises.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

were you a virgin?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> I'm surprised you care, since it really doesn't matter.


Of course it matters. See, I can be just as judgmental as you. Your personal views are not determinative for everyone else.

Female virginity is something that is prized by a lot of men in the world.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> were you a virgin?


If male virginity was something that women prized, then Incels would be the Kings of the World.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Female virginity is something that is prized by a lot of men in the world.


Yeah... it seems like it is prized higher than the woman herself....


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Yeah... it seems like it is prized higher than the woman herself....


No different than male height. How many couples do you know where the man is shorter than the woman? So what's the selection process there, the man is judged by the woman on all of his qualities, but his height becomes the ultimate test of whether the woman is interested in him. Same with her virginity, the woman is judged by all of her qualities, but if she's not a virgin, then it's a hard pass.

This all falls back to the guiding dynamic, men are extremely interested in a woman's past, women are extremely interested in a man's future.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> Did he put two fingers inside? But she looks at other guys that's what pisses me off like that eye contacts etc it's like wtf if she didn't do that I wouldn't be like that


Buy your woman some very dark sunglasses. For your peace of mind. Better yet, welding glasses and a seeing-eye dog.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> No different than male height. How many couples do you know where the man is shorter than the woman? So what's the selection process there, the man is judged by the woman on all of his qualities, but his height becomes the ultimate test of whether the woman is interested in him. Same with her virginity, the woman is judged by all of her qualities, but if she's not a virgin, then it's a hard pass.
> 
> This all falls back to the guiding dynamic, men are extremely interested in a woman's past, women are extremely interested in a man's future.


Yes, it is different. Height and any other physical attributte are part of what create potential attraction to someone. it is out there, visible. You are not attracted to someone, you keep moving. Checking for height does not involve humiliation by putting your two fingers in the most private part of a body to deem your worthiness, reducing your whole person to the tiny piece of hymen.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Yes, it is different. Height and any other physical attributte are part of what create potential attraction to someone. it is out there, visible. You are not attracted to someone, you keep moving. Checking for height does not involve humiliation by putting your two fingers in the most private part of a body to deem your worthiness, reducing your whole person to the tiny piece of hymen.


But by the time this guy is performing this test, he's already married the woman. This means that her virginity was a part of his selection process.

Male height serves as a physical attraction feature to women. Female virginity serves as a psychological and emotional attraction feature to men. I read the infamous TEARS comment thread yesterday, she was a virgin when she starting dating her husband, then she had a affair. Lots of people remarked on how "his loss" was greater than would be the case where a wife had previous sexual experience. Her virginity was something special she gave her husband. Clearly men attach value to that. That value, as with male height or female bustiness, doesn't have to be restricted to a physical attribute. Women can judge a man's kindness or aloofness, both are not physical. They can judge a man's charisma or singing voice, again not physical. A woman's past is extremely, extremely important to men, those men who insist on virgins are simply extending this principle to the extreme - very few women in the dating market are virgins.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

minimalME said:


> Your precious wife _is not_ the issue - you are.
> 
> You need to master yourself and grow up. Be a better man.
> 
> ...


You know those stories about American tourists showing up in a 3rd world country or in Europe and complaining about how everything is backwards and not as good as back home? That's what you're going with your Western chauvinism being directed to this guy's culture. Remember what liberals indoctrinate us with "All cultures are equal."


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> But by the time this guy is performing this test, he's already married the woman. This means that her virginity was a part of his selection process.
> 
> Male height serves as a physical attraction feature to women. Female virginity serves as a psychological and emotional attraction feature to men. I read the infamous TEARS comment thread yesterday, she was a virgin when she starting dating her husband, then she had a affair. Lots of people remarked on how "his loss" was greater than would be the case where a wife had previous sexual experience. Her virginity was something special she gave her husband. Clearly men attach value to that. That value, as with male height or female bustiness, doesn't have to be restricted to a physical attribute. Women can judge a man's kindness or aloofness, both are not physical. They can judge a man's charisma or singing voice, again not physical. A woman's past is extremely, extremely important to men, those men who insist on virgins are simply extending this principle to the extreme - very few women in the dating market are virgins.


Yes, physicality is only part of the attractiveness, that's rather obvious.

So, do you think if you put two fingers into your bride on wedding night and keep wondering out lout if she is virgin, will this make you more or less attractive man to her? Instead of caressing her body, telling her how beautiful she is, how you desire her, make her feel loved. Will she love you more or maybe she will start loathing you? Because all you show her how little she - as a woman, as person, as human being - matter to you.

Some traditions are great and worth preserving. Some are not . If the tradition involves humiliation of your partner that you supposed to love and cherish - ask yourself if it's worth it...


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> Yes, physicality is only part of the attractiveness, that's rather obvious.
> 
> So, do you think if you put two fingers into your bride on wedding night and keep wondering out lout if she is virgin, will this make you more or less attractive man to her? Instead of caressing her body, telling her how beautiful she is, how you desire her, make her feel loved. Will she love you more or maybe she will start loathing you? Because all you show her how little she - as a woman, as person, as human being - matter to you.
> 
> Some traditions are great and worth preserving. Some are not . If the tradition involves humiliation of your partner that you supposed to love and cherish - ask yourself if it's worth it...


I agree, I don't believe that a 2-finger gyno exam on the honeymoon is a turn-on for women anywhere in the world. His insecurity and obsessiveness are both negative behaviors in terms of attraction. At this point though, she's already chosen him (to whatever extent she had a say in the matter.)

I'll disagree with your view on this being a sign of how little value she has to him. It's no different than her pulling a credit report on him on the honeymoon night in order to verify that his big talk about all of his income and assets is actually true. If she presented herself as a virgin and this was crucial to his decision to entr marriage, then he has every right to verify that she is indeed a virgin. If this is a STRONG cultural issue for both of them, then she knows what the deal is on the honeymoon, she's not reduced, in terms of worth, to only being a virgin, her virginity was a crucial issue during the courting process.

Lots of short men are pissed off by being passed over by women. Let's "culturally" train women to prefer short men. Too much humiliation for short men. (Good luck with that project.)


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> You know those stories about American tourists showing up in a 3rd world country or in Europe and complaining about how everything is backwards and not as good as back home? That's what you're going with your Western chauvinism being directed to this guy's culture. Remember what liberals indoctrinate us with "All cultures are equal."


I'm sorry but I feel this is a "western" forum. 

Western women are going to feel offended because for centuries women have been oppressed and abused. This "virginity" thing is another way of abuse in my opinion. We have fought (and keep fighting) for equality (which is not a doctrine but a RIGHT!) and when I read posts like this, it's just upsetting to realize no matter how much we fight against oppression, there are places around the world where women are still treated like f****g animals. 

And don't give me the cr*py speech about a third world country. I was born in one, I've seen and lived the difference.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Fanman said:


> What is your suggestions that she should be tight?


That's what I got told


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm sorry but I feel this is a "western" forum.


But a key Western value is that "all cultures are equal" and those who believe that Western cultures are superior are nothing more than bigots.



> This "virginity" thing is another way of abuse in my opinion.


I disagree with your opinion. Men are allowed to have their own mate-selection preferences without running them by women.



> We have fought (and keep fighting) for equality (which is not a doctrine but a RIGHT!) and when I read posts like this, it's just upsetting to realize no matter how much we fight against oppression, there are places around the world where women are still treated like f****g animals.


Equality is a new-fangled "religious"-type high principle. It's not all that it's cracked up to be. And bull pucky about it being a right. A human right can't exist when it comes at the cost of someone else's right. You have a right to speech, you speaking your mind doesn't take anything away from anyone else, it's not like people are forced to listen to you. Your right to equality requires imposing your views on others and heavy policing of social issues in order to meet your agenda. No way, no how, is that some kind of right.

If women in those place are bothered by their culture, let them fix it. It's not the place of Western women to swoop in and fix the culture of these "backward" places. Remember, to be a good liberal means that one believes that "all cultures are equal."


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> That's what I got told


You clearly have access to the internet (hence you posting here) so why are you acting on what you've been told instead of going out and researching this question on the internet?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> But a key Western value is that "all cultures are equal" and those who believe that Western cultures are superior are nothing more than bigots.


If the OP decided to post in a western forum he needs to understand he's going to get "western female" responses as well. That is equality, not bigotry.




Lance Mannion said:


> I disagree with your opinion. Men are allowed to have their own mate-selection preferences without running them by women.


You are free to chose whatever makes you happy as long as you don't hurt others in the process. Western women are also "allowed" to select, which I'm guessing it's not the case for the OP's wife. Again, this forum has given me as a western woman to give my opinion. Such blasphemy!!




Lance Mannion said:


> Equality is a new-fangled "religious"-type high principle. It's not all that it's cracked up to be.


And you know this because? 

Reading and assuming things is very different than living it for yourself. You as a man are never going to face issues that women have gone through. Things like your virginity is not going to cause a stir anywhere you go. Feel lucky men don't have to be fingered to check if you are a virgin. 

Women can't fix things where they are from if men are ruling and oppressing those women. 

"Let women fix things there" it's so out of touch with their reality. 

I'm surprised it bothers you when it comes to stop degrading women around the world. And it really is not the women's job to do this, it's actually the men's job to stop mistreating women in the name of religion or culture. 

Men have started this a long time ago not women.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> If the OP decided to post in a western forum he needs to understand he's going to get "western female" responses as well. That is equality, not bigotry.


Nope, it's bigotry. The new cultural rules imposed on us in the West is that only bigots believe that Western culture(s) is superior to other cultures. You can't have it both ways, believe all cultures are equal and then, when it suits you, proclaim that western ways are superior.

Pick one standard and follow it.



> You are free to chose whatever makes you happy as long as you don't hurt others in the process. Western women are also "allowed" to select, which I'm guessing it's not the case for the OP's wife. Again, this forum has given me as a western woman to give my opinion. Such blasphemy!!


How has it come to be that Western women have these liberties and the women in many other cultures do not? Well, you have two possible answers. Either Western men decided, on their own,, to grant their women these liberties or Western women took the initiative and worked to establish these liberties for themselves. 

If the latter, then if Western women have sufficient will to reform their own societies, then so too can the women of other cultures rise up and implement change. They don't need Western "saviors" to swoop in and fix their cultures for them.



> Reading and assuming things is very different than living it for yourself. You as a man are never going to face issues that women have gone through. Things like your virginity is not going to cause a stir anywhere you go. Feel lucky men don't have to be fingered to check if you are a virgin.


As a woman you're never going to face the issues that men face. Boo-hoo for women. Boo-hoo for men. This is simply the structure of reality. 

Things like men being short, not having good jobs, etc. disadvantage those men in the mating market. Boo-hoo for women who are not virgins, they made their choices, and the men in cultures which place high value on women's virginity are making their choices and bypassing those non-virgins. Hey, free choice, what's your beef with that? Don't tell men what they are allowed to value in their lives. Down with the Matriarchy!

Female virgins in those countries get the "finger check." Male virgins in those countries are completely ignored by women. This is compounded when polygamy is practiced - lots of male losers never even get a bride.



> Women can't fix things where they are from if men are ruling and oppressing those women.


Of course they can, they did it here in the West. Female Sufferage was a huge movement.



> And it really is not the women's job to do this, it's actually the men's job to stop mistreating women in the name of religion or culture.


Similarly, it's women's jobs to train themselves to be turned on by men who are shorter than them and it's their jobs to be turned off by men who are taller than them.


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Have you straight up asked her if she was a virgin?
She would be the one to start with this question on.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> Nope, it's bigotry. The new cultural rules imposed on us in the West is that only bigots believe that Western culture(s) is superior to other cultures. You can't have it both ways, believe all cultures are equal and then, when it suits you, proclaim that western ways are superior.
> 
> Pick one standard and follow it.
> 
> ...


Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. You didn't get what I said at all. 

According to you, it's very easy for women to change things if we really wanted to. We are the bigots for wanting equality. We should like short men, and get turned on by them. Come on! Look around you! Only tall men have wives!! All the short ones walk around alone and single. 

I have the answer for the OP. Take your wife to a doctor and demand a hymenoplasty. 

There, problem solved.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fanman said:


> I m of the same culture and in our culture it's very important to have virginity


The only one who knows if she was a virgin is her. We here cant possibly know if she was or not.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Fanman said:


> Did he put two fingers inside? But she looks at other guys that's what pisses me off like that eye contacts etc it's like wtf if she didn't do that I wouldn't be like that


YES, he would put two fingers inside me, and it almost never hurt. 

But her looking at other guys has nothing to do with being a virgin...losing my virginity did NOT make me look at other men more - and she might just be curious about people, not only men. But if you don't like it, you need to ask her about it...without suspicion and without jealousy and possessiveness. 

Remember, this is YOUR WIFE...you need to treat her with respect and kindness.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

JustTheWife said:


> *Misinformation. Large guys can tell if a woman is a virgin or not and smaller guys can't???*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My comment was a joke. But are you asking me ?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Fanman said:


> It matters to me.alot since it's in tradition. Its not that tight either...


You need a new set of ethics.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Of course it matters. See, I can be just as judgmental as you. Your personal views are not determinative for everyone else.
> 
> Female virginity is something that is prized by a lot of men in the world.


A lot of insecure men.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of insecure men.


It's not really your place to judge men on their sexual preferences. Do you judge homosexuals for their sexual preferences? Do you judge women as being shallow for preferring taller men over shorter men?

Your comment looks a lot like female shaming tactics designed to get men to reject a position in order to win the favor of a woman. I suspect that you're a woman.


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## JustTheWife (Nov 1, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> I'm sorry but I feel this is a "western" forum.
> 
> Western women are going to feel offended because for centuries women have been oppressed and abused. This "virginity" thing is another way of abuse in my opinion. We have fought (and keep fighting) for equality (which is not a doctrine but a RIGHT!) and when I read posts like this, it's just upsetting to realize no matter how much we fight against oppression, there are places around the world where women are still treated like f****g animals.
> 
> And don't give me the cr*py speech about a third world country. I was born in one, I've seen and lived the difference.


While mainstream American culture finds the "2 finger tests" for virginity repulsive (as it should), I think it's a mistake to think that there aren't sexual prejudices that are similar, just more "evolved".

Teenage mothers have very bad stigma. So no stigma for teenage sex and sex before marriage with multiple partners but just don't get pregnant (and keep it). Only "those people" end up pregnant and having kids as teenagers.
Things like a woman having 2 children with different fathers out of wedlock is openly derided in polite society. Experimenting with your sexuality across multiple partners is perfectly fine. Just don't get "stuck" with the results of the actions. Again, "those people".
How many women feel comfortable sharing their abortion history with their partners? Lots of people marching for abortion rights and openly talking about in "polite society" but having one is usually a very deep dark secret due to society.
American men are well used to women who aren't virgins but the "modern" view still has its limits. Best I can conclude is that America's sexual stigmas have evolved to a more complex mix of sexual, and class and race related prejudices.


----------



## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

If the TAM software has identified this persons location (flag icon) correctly he is from *Mauritania*, a country where the vast majority of women have experienced *Female Gender Mutilation*.

That fact certainly tells something about the value of women in their "culture". This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".

OP, has your wife had her genitals mutilated?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of insecure men.


No its not insecurity at all, for many men and women its very important. If they have waited till marriage then why shouldnt they prefer a virgin spouse?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> No its not insecurity at all, for many men and women its very important. If they have waited till marriage then why shouldnt they prefer a virgin spouse?


Why should they?
Also, it's so hypocritical. This guy has already fingered her. Neither one of them are what you'd call pure at this point. They're just playing a game.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

JustTheWife said:


> While mainstream American culture finds the "2 finger tests" for virginity repulsive (as it should), I think it's a mistake to think that there aren't sexual prejudices that are similar, just more "evolved".
> 
> Teenage mothers have very bad stigma. So no stigma for teenage sex and sex before marriage with multiple partners but just don't get pregnant (and keep it). Only "those people" end up pregnant and having kids as teenagers.
> Things like a woman having 2 children with different fathers out of wedlock is openly derided in polite society. Experimenting with your sexuality across multiple partners is perfectly fine. Just don't get "stuck" with the results of the actions. Again, "those people".
> ...


Very good comment. Brings to mind the reaction we see when we look back at old fashion and wonder "what were they thinking with all of that rayon?" but seeming oblivious to the fact that 40 years in the future our descendants are going to be looking back at us and wondering "What were they thinking?"

Present American standards are not some universally recognized pinnacle of enlightenment.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why should they?
> Also, it's so hypocritical. This guy has already fingered her. Neither one of them are what you'd call pure at this point. They're just playing a game.


Why should they? Because many men attach great value to female virginity. It's their right to do so. Full Stop.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Red Sonja said:


> This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".


Actually, no it's not. You don't get to introduce a statement and then declare that your statement is what this thread is really about.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Fanman said:


> That's what I got told


How do you know that she isn't tight? How many have you been in for comparison? Even the tightest ones aren't like, say, a mousetrap.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Why should they?
> Also, it's so hypocritical. This guy has already fingered her. Neither one of them are what you'd call pure at this point. They're just playing a game.


Because to many its very important. Honestly if a man or woman sees sex as important enough to wait for marriage despite all the pressures of today, why shouldn't they want their spouse to feel the same way? I got the impression that the fingering happened once they were married.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Red Sonja said:


> If the TAM software has identified this persons location (flag icon) correctly he is from *Mauritania*, a country where the vast majority of women have experienced *Female Gender Mutilation*.
> 
> That fact certainly tells something about the value of women in their "culture". This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".
> 
> OP, has your wife had her genitals mutilated?


I cant say I agree with you. We dont know their background and I doubt his wife has had genital mutilation because if she had he wouldnt be in doubt she was a virgin.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> Actually, no it's not. You don't get to introduce a statement and then declare that your statement is what this thread is really about.


It's hard to believe that you've only been here for five days. 

I'd like to know about the genital mutilation as well.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I agree with you. We dont know their background and* I doubt his wife has had genital mutilation because if she had he wouldnt be in doubt she was a virgin.
> *



One has nothing to do with the other. You know this.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> It's hard to believe that you've only been here for five days.
> 
> I'd like to know about the genital mutilation as well.


I'm not shy.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I agree with you. We dont know their background and I doubt his wife has had genital mutilation because if she had he wouldnt be in doubt she was a virgin.


If I may, I'd like to add an unstated premise to your argument. I'd restructure it like this.

The types of families which practice FGM will also practice keeping a tight watch on their girls.
A girl which is under strict supervision and kept isolated from men will have few opportunities to lose her virginity.
If the bride has had FGM, then it's almost certain that she's also a virgin on her honeymoon.

A young, unmarried, woman needs a good degree of personal liberty to live her own life in order to take on a lover. A family which permits such liberty is likely to be educated and/or westernized. Therefore this family is unlikely to impose FGM on the young girl.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> One has nothing to do with the other. You know this.


If they sew these girls up they cant have sex. Many are sewn up.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> No different than male height. How many couples do you know where the man is shorter than the woman?


I know several, myself included. Since I am 5'3", while my wife is 5'7", my ex-wife is 5'6" and my tallest sexual partner is circa 6"2", and most of my sexual partners have been between 5'7"-5'10". With very few of my sexual partners being shorter than me, although some were.



Lance Mannion said:


> This all falls back to the guiding dynamic, men are extremely interested in a woman's past, women are extremely interested in a man's future.


If you add the caveat of some, then you would have a point, absent that caveat you don't.

Oh and as a man who has "taken" a few virgins, and turned down two offers of virginity from different women as well. I can't say I care who or how many people a woman has been or hasn't been with before me. Nor do I care about virginity either.



Lance Mannion said:


> As a woman you're never going to face the issues that men face. Boo-hoo for women. Boo-hoo for men. This is simply the structure of reality.
> 
> Things like men being short, not having good jobs, etc. disadvantage those men in the mating market.


Just in case you didn't get the memo, being a short man is hardly a disadvantage.

I've never lacked for very attractive female suitors. I've had plenty of women "pick me up" at pubs and clubs, to take me to theirs for sex. I've had plenty of women ask me out on dates (my wife included), or who have dumped other men to be with me (my wife included). I've had women married to other men, have sex with me and or ask me to have sex with them. I've had a few women ask me to marry them (my wife included). I've had women have sex with me within ten minutes of meeting them, through to two hours of meeting them (my ex-wife). I've had sex with one woman I had just met in a pub, followed by another woman who I just met half an hour later. Just as I've never lacked for a rich sex life, with high frequency and a tremendous smorgasbord of sexual delights. And I am certainly not the only short man who has enjoyed a splendidly rich sex life with plenty of attractive women. All it takes is a smile, and a little banter.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Red Sonja said:


> That fact certainly tells something about the value of women in their "culture". This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".


Yep it certainly is.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Lance Mannion said:


> Actually, no it's not. You don't get to introduce a statement and then declare that your statement is what this thread is really about.


LOL, you don't make the forum rules do you? And, if you think female genital mutilation is anything other than a human rights violation then we have oppositional moralities and nothing further to discuss with each other.

Now, where is that ignore button? 😁


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> I know several, myself included. Since I am 5'3", while my wife is 5'7", my ex-wife is 5'6" and my tallest sexual partner is circa 6"2", and most of my sexual partners have been between 5'7"-5'10". With very few of my sexual partners being shorter than me, although some were.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Your experiences are not typical. There is a vast amount of commentary from men complaining about female preferences for height. Your experiences don't invalidate either the process at work nor the effects of that process. I'd also venture that you, at some point, ran head-long into that process and some chicks did give you a pass because of your height. You moved on. Fine. Same thing with female virginity and promiscuity. Some promiscuous women have been given a pass by dudes who don't want to deal with the woman's sexual past. Fine. They moved on and found a guy who would accept them. The fact that they find such guys doesn't invalidate the a male preference for chasteness exists.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> If they sew these girls up they cant have sex. Many are sewn up.


May I suggest you read up on the practice of FGM ... completely blocking the vagina is not the point of it.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Red Sonja said:


> LOL, you don't make the forum rules do you? And, if you think female genital mutilation is anything other than a human rights violation then we have oppositional moralities and nothing further to discuss with each other.
> 
> Now, where is that ignore button? 😁


Stay focused. My issue with your comment was that you were the first to introduce FGM into this conversation and then you declared that FGM was the real issue. That's laughable.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> I cant say I agree with you. We dont know their background and I doubt his wife has had genital mutilation because if she had he wouldnt be in doubt she was a virgin.


Female genital mutilation isn’t meant to prevent women from having sex (they are still expected/required to have offspring) 

They are mutilated to keep them from enjoying it.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Some cultures do practice sewing the vagina shut. Some also practice gavage - forcefeeding very young girls so they will become obese and can be married off earlier. Mali and Mauritania have been known to practice FGM as well as both of the above. FGM is much more prevalent, though.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Is all of this talk about FGM considered a threadjack or is it still close enough to the topic of virginity to be within the rules?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> If male virginity was something that women prized, then Incels would be the Kings of the World.


Quote of the day!! LOL

Even female virginity carries a certain degree of paradox and contradiction. 

Female virginity is valued by a number of cultures and religions so virgins are very popular and sought after by (insecure IMHO) males. 

But once a man gets his supposed ‘prize’, she is no longer a Virgin and there for her value decreased.

It’s like buying a stock that instantly decreases in value by virtue of you buying it.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Quote of the day!! LOL
> 
> Even female virginity carries a certain degree of paradox and contradiction.
> 
> ...


I married a virgin and I'm not insecure. I was targeting 18 year old college girls when I was 14 and having success. I got plenty of female attention when single. So, no insecurity or performance anxiety for me.

Secondly, my wife's value never decreased after she lost her virginity to me, it increased with time. Here's why. I have no other men in my marriage, most other married guys can't make that claim. Sure, my wife can fantasize about other guys, but all of her sexual memories are about me. She's given me a great gift. Because I value that gift, I return the love to her. I work to keep adding unique and exciting memories of sex, romance and love. I'm the first and only to have her on a mountaintop under the stars, the first and only to have her on a tropical beach, the first and only in front of a fireplace at a ski chalet, the first and only to have her on the backseat, front seat, hood and trunk of my car, the first and only to ravage her in an elevator, the first and only to have her on a moonlight swim in a lake, the first and only to drive her to a frenzy after a night of hot dancing and taking her back home and taking her right inside the door, etc Other guys have to deal with being repeat acts, some other guy got there first, so, at best, when she reminisces it's a toss-up, is it that other guy or is it the husband?

It's not about the one time act, it's about the special bond. Now, how much is that worth. Ceterus parisbus, two women of equal attraction to you, one just happens to be a virgin. It's worth something, it's certainly not a negative. Just how much though is individual to each man. I've never met a man yet who declared to me that his wife would be a better wife to him today if she had slept with an additional 50 men before he met her. Not one guy. Universally this is seen as a detriment.

And there really isn't a unique drawback, virgins who marry will always question what they're missing, but so do non-virgins, they simply question the "guy who got away" (hence all of the HS ex-boyfriends that they reach out to.) So here I'm no different than other guys, keep her sexual interest up so that her thoughts don't fixate on what she's missing.


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Of course it matters. See, I can be just as judgmental as you. Your personal views are not determinative for everyone else.
> 
> *Female virginity is something that is prized by a lot of men in the world.*


Probably a lot more marriages would be successful if the woman's skill was prized instead of her lack of skill. And how would she be most likely to develop that skill? Practice. Also, a woman who practices knows what she likes and doesn't like, and the man can more easily figure out if they are sexually compatible ahead of marriage.

For the original poster, I'm sad for you that this is so important to you, rather than all the other wonderful qualities your wife may possess. My advice is to just accept her word that she was a virgin, and move on to make your marriage the best it can be. If she looks at other people, that's just a human thing to do.

Also, I think that flag is Pakistan. Gender equality has a long way to go there. It's hard to rise up and change things if you are likely to be murdered for trying. It's hard to even understand what other possibilities exist when you don't go to school and you get married off young.

I do not value a culture that harms innocent people.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> I've never met a man yet who declared to me that his wife would be a better wife to him today if she had slept with an additional 50 men before he met her. Not one guy. Universally this is seen as a detriment.


Yawn... I don't see it a s detriment and I am not the only man who feels that way, so no it certainly isn't universal.

Given a choice I would have no hesitation in picking a sexually experienced woman over a virgin.

And I have no problem with 50 additional men or more before hand either, since such an experience can be a splendid thing.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> Yawn... I don't see it a s detriment and I am not the only man who feels that way, so no it certainly isn't universal.
> 
> Given a choice I would have no hesitation in picking a sexually experienced woman over a virgin.
> 
> And I have no problem with 50 additional men or more before hand either, since such an experience can be a splendid thing.


You're the first guy I've met who wants his wife to have had that many guys before him. Then again you are the contrarian on this board.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Probably a lot more marriages would be successful if the woman's skill was prized instead of her lack of skill. And how would she be most likely to develop that skill? Practice. Also, a woman who practices knows what she likes and doesn't like, and the man can more easily figure out if they are sexually compatible ahead of marriage.


What is left unexamined is the common phenomenon of a woman experimenting with past lovers and then deciding that the experimentation is done with and her husband gets the slim pickings. 

Also left unexamined is the "5 minutes of Alpha is better than the 50 years with the Beta." She gets sexually "imprinted" by some guy and her husband can't "best" him. This is why so, so many, women deeply feel that they've settled for their husbands. Male and female mating strategies are quite different from each other.

Take male sexual skill, assume a normal distribution, so it's unlikely that you are going to be the best she ever had. The more men that she's had, the lower your chances of you being the most skilled or best endowed.

Whatever skills she develops from greater exposure to male lovers is really secondary to her desire and enthusiasm. It won't matter how skilled she is if she's dreaming of Chad Thundercock, the guy she couldn't lockdown, and now had to settle for you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP there is no way you can know whether your wife was a virgin or not, other than by asking her. The fact that her hymen appears to have been broken before she married you *DOES NOT MEAN SHE WASN'T A VIRGIN*. There are many ways this could have happened, that have nothing to do with sex.

Given your location, I too am worried for your wife and sincerely hope that no harm has come to her


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

_f_


Lance Mannion said:


> What is left unexamined is the common phenomenon of a woman experimenting with past lovers and then deciding that the experimentation is done with and her husband gets the slim pickings.
> 
> Also left unexamined is the "5 minutes of Alpha is better than the 50 years with the Beta." She gets sexually "imprinted" by some guy and her husband can't "best" him. This is why so, so many, women deeply feel that they've settled for their husbands. Male and female mating strategies are quite different from each other.
> 
> ...


ie insecurity


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> ie insecurity


Insecurity - lack of confidence or assurance; self-doubt:

None of what I described is insecurity, insecurity is something internal, in this case, internal to the man, his state of mind.

If a woman experiments with past lovers and then decides she is going to be vanilla with the husband, this isn't something internal to his world, this is the woman imposing a condition on their sex-life.

If the woman has been "imprinted" by some fantastic lover in her past, this isn't insecurity plaguing the husband, this is the woman missing the fantastic experience of her past and so she is not totally in the moment or totally in the sexual relationship.

What is going on is a variation of the "3 Truths" maxim - his truth, her truth and reality. His insecurity only comes into play if he believes he is not measuring up. This is only in his head. It's not insecurity if he really is not measuring up and she doesn't tell him and he's not thinking about it. Now the other two "truths" are in play, in reality he's really not measuring up, and what's playing in her head is "He's not as good as Chad was" and so now she's not as into the sex experience. Meanwhile, he's humping and pumping, having a good old time and thinking he's rocking her world. Not a moment of insecurity for him. His ignorance is his bliss.

My examples have nothing to do with the guy's internal dialog about measuring up.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Personal said:


> And I am certainly not the only short man who has enjoyed a splendidly rich sex life with plenty of attractive women. All it takes is a smile, and a little banter.


Thank you for this. 

I've dated a shorter man as well. He was a great person and a great lover. 

Virginity and height have nothing to do with each other culturally or religiously.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Honestly if a man or woman sees sex as important enough to wait for marriage despite all the pressures of today, why shouldn't they want their spouse to feel the same way?


This is not an issue when both parties agree to that, but many cultures only care about women's virginity and men are free to do whatever they want, before and after marriage with one or many women.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> A young, unmarried, woman needs a good degree of personal liberty to live her own life in order to take on a lover. A family which permits such liberty is likely to be educated and/or westernized. Therefore this family is unlikely to impose FGM on the young girl.


Where do you get this from?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> Where do you get this from?


In many of these cultures women are kept under the strictest chaperonage. There simply is no opportunity for a man to bypass all of that supervision and lay down with her.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Insecurity - lack of confidence or assurance; self-doubt:
> 
> None of what I described is insecurity, insecurity is something internal, in this case, internal to the man, his state of mind.
> 
> ...


The insecurity is your assumption that the reason you measure up or that your relationship is special is if your partner has never been with anyone else.

A secure and confident man doesn’t need her virginity to feel secure in her desire or that the relationship is special.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> This is not an issue when both parties agree to that, but many cultures only care about women's virginity and men are free to do whatever they want, before and after marriage with one or many women.


This is so because men care about a wife's virginity but women don't give that much of a damn about their husband's virginity. The perfect microcosm to examine this is high school. If girls cared about male virginity, then all of the Poindexters would have girlfriends, instead almost all of the girls are crushing on the popular boys or jocks, the very boys who are getting lots of girls. Meanwhile, the school tramps don't have the boys lining up to make them their girlfriends, the boys just want to have some fun with them.

You're completely free to start another cultural revolution here in America and get women on board with desiring male virgins. There are millions of Incels who will flock to your banner and offer themselves up as Gods for these women to chase after. Good luck getting female converts. Male virginity to women is as holy water is to vampires.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> The insecurity is your assumption that the reason you measure up or that your relationship is special is if your partner has never been with anyone else.
> 
> A secure and confident man doesn’t need her virginity to feel secure in her desire or that the relationship is special.


Please expand on this because I do not see any logical connection between your comment and the one I wrote.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> There are millions of Incels who will flock to your banner and offer themselves up as Gods for these women to chase after.


Ironically your posts read like Incel nonsense.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> In many of these cultures women are kept under the strictest chaperonage. There simply is no opportunity for a man to bypass all of that supervision and lay down with her.


You talk from experience? Sisters? Cousins? 

I've also had friends from very strict cultures who have done whatever they wanted to do sexually without their families knowledge. They might have "bypassed" PIV sex (virginity thing) but let me tell you, they knew how to get what they wanted, because they are human and they were horny!


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> Ironically your posts read like Incel nonsense.


You argue with female logic - this is a shaming tactic you're using. Refrain from arguing your points otherwise I will label you an incel. Pathetic. Is this part of your contrarian schtick?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> I will label you an incel.


LOL


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> You talk from experience? Sisters? Cousins?
> 
> I've also had friends from very strict cultures who have done whatever they wanted to do sexually without their families knowledge. They might have "bypassed" PIV sex (virginity thing) but let me tell you, they knew how to get what they wanted, because they are human and they were horny!


And all of your friends were subjected to FGM?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Personal said:


> LOL


I've got your number. Your Jedi mind tricks don't work on me.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> This is so because men care about a wife's virginity but women don't give that much of a damn about their husband's virginity.


None of the men I dated cared about my virginity. Not even the one I lost my virginity with. 




Lance Mannion said:


> You're completely free to start another cultural revolution here in America and get women on board with desiring male virgins.


WHAT? Oh God! No thank you. I had a boyfriend who was my first and I was his first. We were both very clumsy. It was cute, for two teenagers. 

I definitely don't want a virgin. I don't care about it and I would appreciate the same courtesy towards me.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> And all of your friends were subjected to FGM?


And all your friends are short dreaming about virgins?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Please expand on this because I do not see any logical connection between your comment and the one I wrote.


If I have to explain it, then I don’t think you’ll be able to understand anyway. 

Let me put it this way - some cultures and religions do value virginity and sexual monogamy with one mate for life. 

If both the man and woman hold themselves to that standard and both save themselves for marriage, then that is congruent and at least makes sense. It is an indication of shared values.

But when a man chases tail and brags of his process and notches on bed posts, but then goes into an essay on the virtues of his wife’s virginity and that women will lament and dream of their previous lovers and only marry the simp for which they have no desire,,,, to me indicates tremendous insecurity and immaturity. 

If you are that much of a Big John Stud, then why would you even care how many men your partner has been with? Aren’t your own merits of a lover enough that you automatically assume a woman’s prior lovers are better?? 

If the sanctity of your marriage and the strength of your bond and the depths of her desire and sexual connection with you depends on her not being with anyone prior, well that just doesn’t really say much about your own confidence now does it. 

From your posts, it appears your value of your wife’s virginity has nothing to do with religious or cultural beliefs and you yourself placed no value in your own sexual restraint. You value her virginity on your (mistaken IMHO) belief that she doesn’t fantasize about other men and has no prior experience in which to judge your abilities as a lover.

To me that is terribly insecure.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> The insecurity is your assumption that the reason you measure up or that your relationship is special is if your partner has never been with anyone else.
> 
> A secure and confident man doesn’t need her virginity to feel secure in her desire or that the relationship is special.


Unsurprisingly, I thought of a few more points I want to throw into the discussion.

1.) Lots of guys like to harp about this insecurity issue because they see it as kind of a **** swinging contest, a variation on the virtue signaling game that wokesters play, they're better dudes because they're secure. What's absent is any cogent argument, what is offered up though is a signal that the writer is, himself, very secure. That's the entire point of the comment, to make sure that signal goes out.

2.) Specialness, in this example, can be objectively tested. If there is only one sexual partner, then that sexual partner is special, he is not one of many, thereby, common. The Mona Lisa is special, there is only one Mona Lisa. A Walmart print is not special, there are millions of that print sold that year.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> And all your friends are short dreaming about virgins?


Hey, you were the one invoking your friendships as some type of authority on this issue of FGM.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> I definitely don't want a virgin. I don't care about it and I would appreciate the same courtesy towards me.


There is no movement of men out there telling women what they must care about in regards to mate selection. Please extend the same courtesy towards men and stop telling them what they must think and desire in regards to their own choices in regards to mate selection.

Why are you so opposed to choice? Are you an anti-choicer? Be Pro-Choice. Allow men to have freedom to choose what they want in women.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> There is no movement of men out there telling women what they must care about in regards to mate selection. Please extend the same courtesy towards men and stop telling them what they must think and desire in regards to their own choices in regards to mate selection.
> 
> Why are you so opposed to choice? Are you an anti-choicer? Be Pro-Choice. Allow men to have freedom to choose what they want in women.


What??? I repeat, you didn't get what I meant at all. Maybe it's because I'm not a virgin. Lol!


----------



## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Unsurprisingly, I thought of a few more points I want to throw into the discussion.
> 
> 1.) Lots of guys like to harp about this insecurity issue because they see it as kind of a **** swinging contest, a variation on the virtue signaling game that wokesters play, they're better dudes because they're secure. What's absent is any cogent argument, what is offered up though is a signal that the writer is, himself, very secure. That's the entire point of the comment, to make sure that signal goes out.
> 
> 2.) Specialness, in this example, can be objectively tested. If there is only one sexual partner, then that sexual partner is special, he is not one of many, thereby, common. The Mona Lisa is special, there is only one Mona Lisa. A Walmart print is not special, there are millions of that print sold that year.


#1. I have no idea what you just said. 

#2. I would believe that perspective coming from someone who holds himself to the same standard and also kept himself sexually pure. That would be a shared value and a shared concept of what is special to them. 

But sorry, I’m not buying it when a dude brags about his prior experiences and then talks about how “special” their relationship because she was virginal. To me that just says you would be able to stand up to her previous lovers ... or at least you don’t think you would.. ie = insecurity.

I’ll also add that there is another perspective to “specialness”, and that is when people have had previous lovers and prior experiences and yet choose each other.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> There is no movement of men out there telling women what they must care about in regards to mate selection. Please extend the same courtesy towards men and stop telling them what they must think and desire in regards to their own choices in regards to mate selection.
> 
> Why are you so opposed to choice? Are you an anti-choicer? Be Pro-Choice. Allow men to have freedom to choose what they want in women.


You’re not supposed to drink the bong water.


----------



## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> If both the man and woman hold themselves to that standard and both save themselves for marriage, then that is congruent and at least makes sense. It is an indication of shared values.
> 
> But when a man chases tail and brags of his process and notches on bed posts, but then goes into an essay on the virtues of his wife’s virginity and that women will lament and dream of their previous lovers and only marry the simp for which they have no desire,,,, to me indicates tremendous insecurity and immaturity.


I see that you're a proponent of universal values. So if your wife, or some woman you're shagging, loves it when you pick her up and carry her to your bed, then you must also desire that she pick you up and carry you to her bed. Right?

Clearly men and women don't operate under identical mate selection criteria. Women desire tall men, men don't give a damn about desiring only tall women. Women desire to date equal or up in terms of social/sexual status, men are quite happy to date down in social status. The objective evidence is abundant, we operate on different standards, not identical standards.

If you want to take slam at me, don't be so passive aggressive about it, take a direct shot.



> If you are that much of a Big John Stud, then why would you even care how many men your partner has been with? Aren’t your own merits of a lover enough that you automatically assume a woman’s prior lovers are better??


I didn't seek out a virgin to marry, I was blessed with the good fortune. I explained in detail WHY that is a good fortune. I don't understand your need to get into a **** swinging contest about this issue, to declare to all that you, a man among men, is secure. You're off on a tangent.



> If the sanctity of your marriage and the strength of your bond and the depths of her desire and sexual connection with you depends on her not being with anyone prior, well that just doesn’t really say much about your own confidence now does it.


I strongly suspect that you've argued this issue before and you're simply relying on a templated argument. The clue, your argument is a strawman. I never wrote anything about my marriage DEPENDING on her status as a virgin. I simply explained the benefits I received from the gift she gave me. Benefits that men partnered with non-virgins cannot, by definition, receive.



> From your posts, it appears your value of your wife’s virginity has nothing to do with religious or cultural beliefs and you yourself placed no value in your own sexual restraint. *You value her virginity on your (mistaken IMHO) belief that she doesn’t fantasize* about other men and has no prior experience in which to judge your abilities as a lover.
> 
> To me that is terribly insecure.


You should really give some thought to improving your reading comprehension skills, I made specific reference to her being able to fantasize about other men, then I contrasted that with an analysis of all of her memories being with me.

I don't really understand guys like you, with your insecurity so obviously on display that you need to go out and start calling out guys for being insecure. This is a weird display of **** swinging. By chance you don't drive around in a sports car, wearing a toupee, and trying to pick up women, do you?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> #2. I would believe that perspective coming from someone who holds himself to the same standard and also kept himself sexually pure. That would be a shared value and a shared concept of what is special to them.


Going through life holding false beliefs is not a good strategy. Are you really as old as your nic suggests? If so, how on earth did you get to an advanced age without noticing that men and women do not operate under the same sexual mating strategy?

My wife loved the fact that she beat out competitors, loved it. I had no reciprocal elation that I beat out the guys who wanted her. It's a freaking headache being married to a beautiful woman. Notice what is going on here - DIFFERENT mating strategies. My assessment of her worth to me is independent of what other dudes thought of her. Her assessment of me was partially informed by what other women thought of me.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> By chance you don't drive around in a sports car, wearing a toupee, and trying to pick up women, do you?


I drive a Dodge Ram, am shaved bald, wear jeans to weddings and most of the women that I’ve been with talked to me first LOL


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> What??? I repeat, you didn't get what I meant at all. Maybe it's because I'm not a virgin. Lol!


I think I get your point, let me see if I can give it an honest rephrasing. 

You object to men who either express preference for virgins or for women with low partner history. That men do this bothers you. You believe that this is a wrong attitude because women do not do the same when it comes to choosing men for themselves.

How did I do?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Going through life holding false beliefs is not a good strategy. Are you really as old as your nic suggests? If so, how on earth did you get to an advanced age without noticing that men and women do not operate under the same sexual mating strategy?
> 
> My wife loved the fact that she beat out competitors, loved it. I had no reciprocal elation that I beat out the guys who wanted her. It's a freaking headache being married to a beautiful woman. Notice what is going on here - DIFFERENT mating strategies. My assessment of her worth to me is independent of what other dudes thought of her. Her assessment of me was partially informed by what other women thought of me.


I never said anything about people having same mating strategies or being attracted to the same traits and characteristics. 

I said shared values in regards to virginity/monogamy/promiscuity etc


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I drive a Dodge Ram, am shaved bald, wear jeans to weddings and most of the women that I’ve been with talked to me first LOL


Good to know. Your commentary though would fit hand in glove with an insecure middle-aged man going through a midlife crisis and trying to compensate for some type of inadequacy.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I never said anything about people having same mating strategies or being attracted to the same traits and characteristics.
> 
> I said shared values in regards to virginity/monogamy/promiscuity etc


Values are what propel stratetgies. Your woman may like you to pick her up and carry her to bed. What's behind that? She wants a strong man, a confident man, a man to dominate her. Well, if you're with that type of woman does that mean you want her to pick you up and carry you to bed, for her to be muscled and strong, domineering and confident so that you can be weak and submissive? In this scenario the values are contradictory. You dominate, she submits. You're strong, she's weak. 

This virginity issue plays out exactly like that. There is no great movement, other than within some religions, for women seeking out male virgins. It's really as close to a non-issue as can be for most women. Men on the other hand talk about female virginity a lot and want that exclusivity with her, for various reasons.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> You object to men who either express preference for virgins or for women with low partner history. That men do this bothers you. You believe that this is a wrong attitude because women do not do the same when it comes to choosing men for themselves.
> 
> How did I do?


I think you did poorly.

I don’t think Pasta was saying there is anything wrong with a man valuing virginity at all. 

Most of the regular posters here are all about people embracing and pursuing their own interests and values even if those interests and values differ from their own.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> does that mean you want her to pick you up and carry you to bed, for her to be muscled and strong, domineering and confident so that you can be weak and submissive?


Now that I think about it, that’s sounds kinda hot!! 😂


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I think you did poorly.
> 
> I don’t think Pasta was saying there is anything wrong with a man valuing virginity at all.
> 
> Most of the regular posters here are all about people embracing and pursuing their own interests and values even if those interests and values differ from their own.


Here's her remark - "I definitely don't want a virgin. I don't care about it and I would appreciate the same courtesy towards me."

She states her choice. She states her value. She declares she wants the same courtesy. 

Since no one in this thread has written a word about trying to impose some virginity choice on her mate selection process for men, what is she referring to with respect to courtesy? I took it that she is bothered that men hold that value and that *she doesn't want to be judged by men* when they use that criteria. You write that I misread her, so explain the reference to courtesy. What courtesy is she referring to?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> Here's her remark - "I definitely don't want a virgin. I don't care about it and I would appreciate the same courtesy towards me."
> 
> She states her choice. She states her value. She declares she wants the same courtesy.
> 
> Since no one in this thread has written a word about trying to impose some virginity choice on her mate selection process for men, what is she referring to with respect to courtesy? I took it that she is bothered that men hold that value and that *she doesn't want to be judged by men* when they use that criteria. You write that I misread her, so explain the reference to courtesy. What courtesy is she referring to?


I don’t want to speak for her but I took that as meaning she does not care about a man’s virginity and would prefer that a man not make an issue of her status as well.

That is not the same as saying that a man that did value virginity is wrong or that her should not want or value that. 

It’s ok for people to have their own preferences. But don’t point fingers or criticize those that don’t meet those preferences.

That’s how I interpreted what she said. 

She can clarify if I am wrong.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Here is the one issues I see with strictly desiring to marry a virgin. At some point many, many women who married as a virgin are going to start obsessing over what they missed out on. It will consume their thoughts. A good friend of mine is a psychologist, she works primarily with women and she has told me before that a lot of the women she sees who married as virgins are coming to her because of this. They are tortured by wondering what sex with a different man would be like. They have only had that excitement of a new lover once and their mind locks up with the curiosity and it starts to affect their feelings towards their husbands. All the rationalizing that it's more special and sex is better with someone you love and everything they have been told to believe doesn't matter.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t want to speak for her but I took that as meaning she does not care about a man’s virginity and would prefer that a man not make an issue of her status as well.


Yeah, that's how I took it too. So, let's flip it. A short dude says he doesn't care about a woman's height and he would prefer that women not judge him on his height.

OK. So what, though? This is like whispering in a hurricane, your personal preference that you put out there to the world is really a meaningless request. People do what they do because they want to advance their own self-interest. For a short dude to expect a woman, who likes tall men, to not judge him for being short simply means that the woman, if she is polite, will judge him silently, pass on him, and never be in his face about the fact that she judged him for being short. She's not going to go against her interest and be with the short dude simply because he requested she not judge him for being short.



> That is not the same as saying that a man that did value virginity is wrong or that her should not want or value that.
> 
> It’s ok for people to have their own preferences. But don’t point fingers or criticize those that don’t meet those preferences.


I see little value in making the distinction between "It's fine for you to have your values" and "I want you to extend to me the courtesy of not judging me by your values." If put between a rock and a hard place where a judgment must be made, people are going to judge by using their values rather than just throwing up their hands and saying "I will honor your request and not judge you" and so they default to simply not engaging with you, now the end result is the exact same as if you had been judged and found wanting.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

This is gone off topic

The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Fanman said:


> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


This is not necessarily the case. I have had sex with my wife during her period many times, even then there is not always noticeable blood on me.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Here is the one issues I see with strictly desiring to marry a virgin. At some point many, many women who married as a virgin are going to start obsessing over what they missed out on. It will consume their thoughts. A good friend of mine is a psychologist, she works primarily with women and she has told me before that a lot of the women she sees who married as virgins are coming to her because of this. They are tortured by wondering what sex with a different man would be like. They have only had that excitement of a new lover once and their mind locks up with the curiosity and it starts to affect their feelings towards their husbands. All the rationalizing that it's more special and sex is better with someone you love and everything they have been told to believe doesn't matter.


This is almost no different than anyone in a monogamous relationship wondering what it would be like to be with another. It's just another iteration of the "Grass is Greener" problem.

My wife faced unrelenting pressure from her university friends to "be like them." She resorted to carrying a lottery ticket in her wallet. She'd plunk down the lottery ticket and declare I won ten million dollars but I wasn't ready in my life to have that money. Think of the experiences I would have given up. Worrying about paying rent, not having enough money to buy those shoes, worried about how to pay my credit card bill, having to eat ramen noodles and Kraft Dinner in order to save enough to buy a textbook. Once I've lived my life and had those experiences, then I'll go and buy another winning lottery ticket. LOL!

When the woman thinks she's got the right guy, then having more guys is a step-down. In order to get variety she has to purposely chose to give up what she values and there is no guarantee that another good catch is going to come along.

The pressure though also has a personal component. The two types of women hated most by other women are virgins, or low notch count women, and sloots. The promiscuous women are a threat in the mate selection market because they're easy and so they can steal away a prospective man that night, derailing a woman's goal of developing something with that man. The virgin is similarly a threat because she is the more appealing choice than the mid-notch count girl. Take the virgin and talk her into losing her advantage and a threatening competitor is neutralized.

As for consuming their thoughts, let's face it, most people are NPC's, no original thought in their head, everything has been pushed into them via cultural propaganda. Men and women, living in the past, were not consumed by thoughts of not having orgies and threesomes and getting banged by strange, they somehow were content with the cultural order of the day, that being, monogamy. There was no cultural license to be promiscuous, so they didn't twist their lives inside and out in order to seek out a high notch count as a form of personal growth and validation. 

The solution here is nothing more than choice and strong impulse control. A minor aspect is to recognize that you're reacting to propaganda.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Fanman said:


> This is gone off topic
> 
> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


I have had sex with people on their period and there was no visible blood on me.

And as other posters have said, there is not always blood involved when someone has sex for the first time.

There is no silver bullet or sure way that you can tell. No one can truly prove that they have not had sex. 

And no one can truly prove they have had sex unless they were there. 

You’re either going to trust her here or your not. 

She’s not going to be able to prove to you she hasn’t had sex and unless you have someone come forward to say that they were an eyewitness to it, you aren’t going to be able to prove she wasn’t virginal. 

What is very possible to occur here is if you keep making an issue of this, she will feel judged and disparaged and she will resent you for it and not want to have sex with you again. 

If you can not live with this uncertainty, that will be on you and be your choice whether to stay with her or not.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> This is gone off topic
> 
> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


That's not proof of anything. As you pulled out, the little blood on your D likely rubbed against her vaginal walls.

Take a needle, prick your left thumb, transfer a drop of blood onto your right thumb, quickly put a glove on your right hand and then remove the glove. The blood is transferred to the inside of the glove and none remains on your right thumb.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> I think I get your point, let me see if I can give it an honest rephrasing.
> 
> You object to men who either express preference for virgins or for women with low partner history. That men do this bothers you. You believe that this is a wrong attitude because women do not do the same when it comes to choosing men for themselves.
> 
> How did I do?


No. Men and women can like what ever they want to like. I object when they are a**h***s to each other.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t want to speak for her but I took that as meaning she does not care about a man’s virginity and would prefer that a man not make an issue of her status as well.
> 
> That is not the same as saying that a man that did value virginity is wrong or that her should not want or value that.
> 
> ...


You are right. 

Was I so thick with my answers?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> This is gone off topic
> 
> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


So how does this faking game work? You're watching yourself as you pull out of her, there is no blood on you, but then blood appears to come out of her. Did you look away for a second and then she took a water pistol filled with blood and squirted it inside her and then hide that water pistol before you turned your head back to look down at her vagina?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> When the woman thinks she's got the right guy, then having more guys is a step-down. In order to get variety she has to purposely chose to give up what she values and there is no guarantee that another good catch is going to come along.


This is just not born out by what many clinicians have seen. And your wording is appropriate, "Thinks she's got the right guy". A woman who marry's as a virgin may think they do but some then begin to wonder. It's not about finding another better husband. They just simply begin to wonder what another mans penis would feel like, does all semen taste the same, these types of curiosities, and it grows from there. This doesn't mean all woman who marry as virgins experience this but it is common, and is a common root of infidelity. A lot of people who cheat aren't doing so looking to replace their spouse. It's kind of related to how people who marry very young have a much higher divorce rate than people who marry at an older age.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is just not born out by what many clinicians have seen. And your wording is appropriate, "Thinks she's got the right guy". A woman who marry's as a virgin may think they do but some then begin to wonder. It's not about finding another better husband. They just simply begin to wonder what another mans penis would feel like, does all semen taste the same, these types of curiosities, and it grows from there. This doesn't mean all woman who marry as virgins experience this but it is common, and is a common root of infidelity. A lot of people who cheat aren't doing so looking to replace their spouse. It's kind of related to how people who marry very young have a much higher divorce rate than people who marry at an older age.


Have you ever shot up heroin? If not, how do you know what you're missing?

All of those sex-related questions you offered have answers. The issue is this - what cost are they willing to pay to get the answers?

Please, let's not get into that junk science about marrying young.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> Yeah, that's how I took it too. So, let's flip it. A short dude says he doesn't care about a woman's height and he would prefer that women not judge him on his height.


Being short is not the same as expecting a woman to be a virgin until marriage! 

You mean it's the OP's choice to marry or not a virgin? That might not be an option in his culture. I don't know that, you don't know it either. I understand that, and it has nothing to do with a short man and his choices. (What is up with the short man story anyway?)

A short man is not going to get stoned, burned alive, humiliated in public, etc., etc. because he is short. 

A woman, who is not a virgin, is going to get killed in some cultures because of the shame she has brought up to her family.

You are ok with it. Whatever man! Be the guy's wingman for all I care.

P.S. I can't even believe the guy had the guts to ask those questions in here. But hey it's his choice. I'm also not convinced the guy is real either. I won't be surprised if he's playing games. It won't be the first time either.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> So how does this faking game work? You're watching yourself as you pull out of her, there is no blood on you, but then blood appears to come out of her. Did you look away for a second and then she took a water pistol filled with blood and squirted it inside her and then hide that water pistol before you turned your head back to look down at her vagina?


In very traditional cultures where female virginity was not only valued but often somewhat mandated and great shame and family dishonor could come from even suspicion of a bride not being a virgin on the wedding night, mother’s would teach daughters how to fake blood on the sheets etc so as to appeal to the (insecure) men and the in-laws that would want ‘proof’ of virginity.

This practice wasn’t necessarily to fake the virginity per se, but due to the fact that not all people will bleed and if the in-laws were going to stone her or set her on fire if she couldn’t produce ‘proof’ of her virginity, ingenious techniques were developed to show blood. 

All this did was cause these guys to become even more insecure and suspicious and they became worried that women were faking their virginity...... as we are seeing now with this OP.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> This is just not born out by what many clinicians have seen. And your wording is appropriate, "Thinks she's got the right guy". A woman who marry's as a virgin may think they do but some then begin to wonder. It's not about finding another better husband. They just simply begin to wonder what another mans penis would feel like, does all semen taste the same, these types of curiosities, and it grows from there. This doesn't mean all woman who marry as virgins experience this but it is common, and is a common root of infidelity. A lot of people who cheat aren't doing so looking to replace their spouse. It's kind of related to how people who marry very young have a much higher divorce rate than people who marry at an older age.


Just so we're clear, I'm not disputing that this phenomenon exists. I simply don't see how the curiosity is anymore powerful than that which exists in people with some sexual history who also want to CONTINUE to experience variety outside of marriage. This is really a modern-day, Western, created phenomenon. Pastasauce79 made reference to women adultresses being stoned in some countries. I don't think married women in those cultures are going bonkers and needing to see psychologists in order to deal with overpowering urges to get plumbed by new men. Why not? Because the cultural programming is putting a different message into their consciousness.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> In very traditional cultures where female virginity was not only valued but often somewhat mandated and great shame and family dishonor could come from even suspicion of a bride not being a virgin on the wedding night, mother’s would teach daughters how to fake blood on the sheets etc so as to appeal to the (insecure) men and the in-laws that would want ‘proof’ of virginity.
> 
> This practice wasn’t necessarily to fake the virginity per se, but due to the fact that not all people will bleed and if the in-laws were going to stone her or set her on fire if she couldn’t produce ‘proof’ of her virginity, ingenious techniques were developed to show blood.
> 
> All this did was cause these guys to become even more insecure and suspicious and they became worried that women were faking their virginity...... as we are seeing now with this OP.


I understand, but he said that the blood came from within her, specifically "it came out." So how did she get the blood in so that it could come out?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

Lance! How are you feeling after your reincarnation?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Spicy said:


> Lance! How are you feeling after your reincarnation?


I kind of miss Sam.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Lance Mannion said:


> I understand, but he said that the blood came from within her, specifically "it came out." So how did she get the blood in so that it could come out?



Ancient Chinese secret.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Ancient Chinese secret.


Does that secret include 11 herbs and spices?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> Just so we're clear, I'm not disputing that this phenomenon exists. I simply don't see how the curiosity is anymore powerful than that which exists in people with some sexual history who also want to CONTINUE to experience variety outside of marriage. This is really a modern-day, Western, created phenomenon. Pastasauce79 made reference to women adultresses being stoned in some countries. I don't think married women in those cultures are going bonkers and needing to see psychologists in order to deal with overpowering urges to get plumbed by new men. Why not? Because the cultural programming is putting a different message into their consciousness.


Because there is a huge difference between having "some" sexual history and zero. And it's not a universal phenomenon. And there are plenty of people who might have a lot of past experience and then after a few years of marriage decide they want more. But I just wouldn't want to be in a position of my wife secretly obsessing over the curiosity, with virgin brides (or grooms) there seems to a high percentage of the curiosity.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Because there is a huge difference between having "some" sexual history and zero. And it's not a universal phenomenon. And there are plenty of people who might have a lot of past experience and then after a few years of marriage decide they want more. But I just wouldn't want to be in a position of my wife secretly obsessing over the curiosity, with virgin brides (or grooms) there seems to a high percentage of the curiosity.


There's also a rapidly growing population of children who think that they are born the wrong gender and want to undergo gender-reassignment surgery, and yet 20 years ago very few of these types of children existed and even fewer parents and judges and public officials and physicians were champions of such surgery. 

I don't want to debate transgenderism in this thread about virginity, I just bring it up as another example of how damn powerful cultural propaganda is.

The solution to this stampede of former-virgins overwhelming the offices of psychologists is to not stigmatize virgin marriages, it's to change the damn propaganda messaging that the road to personal salvation is through promiscuity.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> But I just wouldn't want to be in a position of my wife secretly obsessing over the curiosity, with virgin brides (or grooms) there seems to a high percentage of the curiosity.


The joys of a free society. You take your chances, we'll take our chances.


http://imgur.com/IUab2Ym


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Lance Mannion said:


> The joys of a free society. You take your chances, we'll take our chances.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/IUab2Ym


Ha Ha, where is this from. I like how it only covers women are more happy the less partners they've had. And you're putting down cultural propaganda.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Ha Ha, where is this from. I like how it only covers women are more happy the less partners they've had. And you're putting down cultural propaganda.


This is from the widely quoted study which is frequently mentioned on this board. The didn't find an effect for men. Seems women's brains are different than men's brains. Who'd a thunk that?

Where do you see this propaganda being pushed? It's not propaganda. Sex is not merely exercise, it has an emotional effect for people, for some it is minimal, for others it is significant. A woman's ability to mate-bond is destroyed by high levels of promiscuous behavior.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Are you guys only with your wives due to your utter lack of any attraction, curiosity or feelings for any other woman??? 

before the last couple dozen posts get deleted for threadjacking, I just want to say this whole discussion of Virgin brides having more or less curiosities or fantasies of other men or old boyfriends etc, let’s just have a reality check that all humans have fantasies and curiosities and various feelings and attractions and desires for other people. 

It’s just simply part and parcel of being a living, breathing human being. 

When I am sputtering down to my last few breaths and I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, I will probably try to cop a feel off the hospice nurse. 

Marrying a Virgin is not going to protect you from your wife having curiosities, attractions, feelings etc for other men. 

Marrying a non Virgin is not going to protect you from your wife having curiosities, attractions, feelings etc for other men. 

If she is alive, she has those feelings and desires whether she has been with anyone before you or not. 

However, you also need to understand that people do not love or desire their spouse due to lack of desire or feelings for other people.

People do not marry their spouse due to lack of basic human feelings for other people. 

Nor do they stay with their partner due to lack of basic human feelings for other people.

Marriage and commitment and fidelity are choices despite normal, basic attractions and feelings for other people because people decide the benefits of being in that primary relationship outweigh the sacrifice of not acting on every whim, impulse or feeling they have.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Are you guys only with your wives due to your utter lack of any attraction, curiosity or feelings for any other woman???
> 
> before the last couple dozen posts get deleted for threadjacking, I just want to say this whole discussion of Virgin brides having more or less curiosities or fantasies of other men or old boyfriends etc, let’s just have a reality check that all humans have fantasies and curiosities and various feelings and attractions and desires for other people.
> 
> ...


Nice comment, but it's not really in reaction to anything. It's simply a template of tired talking points. Maybe they have value as a stand-alone comment. This sure reads a lot like your earlier comments, some projection and rationalization of your own life choices mixed in with virtue signaling about how secure you are as a man. Weird.

Your closing paragraph is good as a stand-alone thought. That I agree with.


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## Cletus (Apr 27, 2012)

Lance Mannion said:


> Good to know. Your commentary though would fit hand in glove with an insecure middle-aged man going through a midlife crisis and trying to compensate for some type of inadequacy.


Ok, folks. Taking bets on how long our new buddy Lance lasts. Get your squares while they're hot!


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Cletus said:


> Ok, folks. Taking bets on how long our new buddy Lance lasts. Get your squares while they're hot!


He's intimating that I'm sexually insecure but I can't draw a parallel between his rhetoric and how it symbolizes a man suffering a MLC? Is the ban hammer that strict here?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Cletus said:


> Ok, folks. Taking bets on how long our new buddy Lance lasts. Get your squares while they're hot!


$50 on 48 hrs.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Cletus said:


> Ok, folks. Taking bets on how long our new buddy Lance lasts. Get your squares while they're hot!


I actually think he is quite refreshing.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Here is the one issues I see with strictly desiring to marry a virgin. At some point many, many women who married as a virgin are going to start obsessing over what they missed out on. It will consume their thoughts. A good friend of mine is a psychologist, she works primarily with women and she has told me before that a lot of the women she sees who married as virgins are coming to her because of this. They are tortured by wondering what sex with a different man would be like. They have only had that excitement of a new lover once and their mind locks up with the curiosity and it starts to affect their feelings towards their husbands. All the rationalizing that it's more special and sex is better with someone you love and everything they have been told to believe doesn't matter.


Honestly I know many women who had no or few(maybe one ot two) previous sexual partners before they married, and they are all in long happy marriages. To say that most women in that position are 'tortured' is just weird. Maybe a small number but not most. 
I do know women who regret having had sex with others before they married though. They wish they had waited.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

pastasauce79 said:


> This is not an issue when both parties agree to that, but many cultures only care about women's virginity and men are free to do whatever they want, before and after marriage with one or many women.


he did imply that he was also a virgin.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> This is from the widely quoted study which is frequently mentioned on this board. The didn't find an effect for men. Seems women's brains are different than men's brains. Who'd a thunk that?
> 
> Where do you see this propaganda being pushed? It's not propaganda. Sex is not merely exercise, it has an emotional effect for people, for some it is minimal, for others it is significant. A woman's ability to mate-bond is destroyed by high levels of promiscuous behavior.


I am curious - are you posting all these justifications for why virginity is better and more valuable (to YOU) so that you can convince other people that you are right...or are you interested in gaining understanding of what other people believe about the same issue...?

I'm NOT being snarky or sarcastic...I'm really asking and wanting to know your answer...


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> I actually think he is quite refreshing.


No surprise here..


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?


Sounds pretty virginal to me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> No surprise here..


Its good to have other perspectives than the ones that the majority here have.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fanman said:


> She did but before that I was able to put 2 fingers inside and she didn't bleed. M thinking whether she put coloring in or something like that..


You've too paranoid to be in a relationship, much less married.

Hymens are not right up front and a vagina has to be penetrated before it is made contact with.

Fingers can be inserted in a vagina without breaking the hymen if they aren't pushed in far enough.

Get help.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> You've too paranoid to be in a relationship, much less married.
> 
> Hymens are not right up front and a vagina has to be penetrated before it is made contact with.
> 
> ...


I am wondering if it was an arranged marriage.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fanman said:


> It matters to me.alot since it's in tradition. Its not that tight either...


How do you know she isn't tight?

How many women are you comparing her to?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

DownByTheRiver said:


> A lot of insecure men.


That's not necessarily accurate.

I'm obviously not speaking for myself here, especially given my history, but there are a lot of religious or cultural or societal groups that believe in waiting until marriage for sex.

I now belong to one of those groups as a Christian and I am a far cry from insecure.

I am equal opportunity on this however. What's required for the goose is required for the gander.

I'm not defending otherwise repressive and repugnant practices towards women in other cultures and I'm not sympathetic to this OP's point of view about his wife.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

ConanHub said:


> That's not necessarily accurate.
> 
> I'm obviously not speaking for myself here, especially given my history, but there are a lot of religious or cultural or societal groups that believe in waiting until marriage for sex.
> 
> ...


Agreed. My husband is one of the most secure men I know, and he wanted to wait for marriage and hoped for a wife who did as well.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> Your experiences are not typical. There is a vast amount of commentary from men complaining about female preferences for height. Your experiences don't invalidate either the process at work nor the effects of that process. I'd also venture that you, at some point, ran head-long into that process and some chicks did give you a pass because of your height. You moved on. Fine. Same thing with female virginity and promiscuity. Some promiscuous women have been given a pass by dudes who don't want to deal with the woman's sexual past. Fine. They moved on and found a guy who would accept them. The fact that they find such guys doesn't invalidate the a male preference for chasteness exists.


This is off the path but I agree with @Personal on this one.

I won't try and contradict what studies have shown and I know the majority of women state they want a tall man as a partner (at least taller than them) but I didn't know that really until coming to TAM and doing other research.

In the wild, I had zero issues dating taller women.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Its good to have other perspectives than the ones that the majority here have.


Someone putting fingers in your vagina for other reason than to make you feel good is fresh perspective. I rest my case


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

I honestly dont think we can compare someone wanting a certain look, such as height, with something that has been done with and to others, such as something very imtimate like sexual intercourse.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

WandaJ said:


> Someone putting fingers in your vagina for other reason than to make you feel good is fresh perspective. I rest my case


Somewhat squewed, I think you will find that the poster has said many many more things than that and I dont remember actually reading him saying what you said. I appreciate that it goes against the flow on this forum to believe that sex before marriage is for many not right, and that it seems to get some people angry when its mentioned which I cant understand, but Its refreshing when someone else actually believes along those lines and also researches it and the consequences.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> That's not necessarily accurate.
> 
> I'm obviously not speaking for myself here, especially given my history, but there are a lot of religious or cultural or societal groups that believe in waiting until marriage for sex.
> 
> ...


It’s a matter of context. 

If a guy has personal or cultural/religious values that emphasize no sex before marriage and lifelong monogamy etc and he practices those values and he himself abstains until marriage, then that is at least congruent and consistent with mutual values. It simply makes sense. 

But if some guy is out picking up chicks and chasing tail and having sex himself, but insists on a Virgin for marriage because he’s afraid she will be thinking about or yearning for prior lovers or is somehow tainted or dirty for a relationship/marriage if she’s had prior sex, I see that as insecure and immature.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> It’s a matter of context.
> 
> If a guy has personal or cultural/religious values that emphasize no sex before marriage and lifelong monogamy etc and he practices those values and he himself abstains until marriage, then that is at least congruent and consistent with mutual values. It simply makes sense.
> 
> But if some guy is out picking up chicks and chasing tail and having sex himself, but insists on a Virgin for marriage because he’s afraid she will be thinking about or yearning for prior lovers or is somehow tainted or dirty for a relationship/marriage if she’s had prior sex, I see that as insecure and immature.


Agreed. That would be hypocritical.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Somewhat squewed, I think you will find that the poster has said many many more things than that and I dont remember actually reading him saying what you said. I appreciate that it goes against the flow on this forum to believe that sex before marriage is for many not right, and that it seems to get some people angry when its mentioned which I cant understand, but Its refreshing when someone else actually believes along those lines and also researches it and the consequences.


I don’t think anyone has a beef that virginity is important to him and I certainly haven’t seen anyone getting angry about that.

My issue is he is being a jerk about it and sticking his fingers up in there as some kind of test to determine her virginity or lack there of and then accusing her of virginity fraud by using inaccurate assumptions on what a Virgin should feel like and what signs and symptoms he believes (inaccurately) she should have. 

If some guy prefers to marry a Virgin, that is his choice and prerogative.

But this guy is holding on to inaccurate and false assumptions about Virgin anatomy and physiology and then accusing her of fraud because she isn’t meeting his misinformed criteria.

No one is judging him because he values virginity. People are judging him because he is being an ignorant, chauvinistic jerk.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Somewhat squewed, I think you will find that the poster has said many many more things than that and I dont remember actually reading him saying what you said. I appreciate that it goes against the flow on this forum to believe that sex before marriage is for many not right, and that it seems to get some people angry when its mentioned which I cant understand, but Its refreshing when someone else actually believes along those lines and also researches it and the consequences.


I think what has thrown some people off with this is that it would appear at first glance that this is a scenario where the woman is owned. Like the OP was testing out to make sure his merchandise in undamaged. What we are missing is the OP's wife's perspective. This is clearly a cultural thing. So the wife may be happy and willing to be in this situation and she fully embraces the tradition. It is an extreme version of the traditional christian ideal of no sex before marriage. A couple who saved themselves very likely did so because they are serious about their faith and traditions and embrace celibacy happily.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Agreed. My husband is one of the most secure men I know, and he wanted to wait for marriage and hoped for a wife who did as well.


You mean your second husband?

So, he married you as a divorcee with children, so very obviously not a virgin. How do you square that with him wanting a virgin the first time around? Why didn't he also want a virgin the second time around?🤔🤔 He wanted a virgin in the past. You weren't. Does he view you as damaged goods? If not, why is there a double standard applying to his first versus his second wife???


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Livvie said:


> You mean your second husband?
> 
> So, he married you as a divorcee with children, so very obviously not a virgin. How do you square that with him wanting a virgin the first time around? Why didn't he also want a virgin the second time around?🤔🤔 He wanted a virgin in the past. You weren't. Does he view you as damaged goods? If not, why is there a double standard applying to his first versus his second wife???


She was referring to keeping sex within marriage.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Diana7 said:


> Agreed. My husband is one of the most secure men I know, and he wanted to wait for marriage and hoped for a wife who did as well.


I think the discussion of security or insecurity was brought up in the context of a guy who has not abstained until marriage himself but only wants a wife who is a virgin so he is his wife's only experience. 

I think the important thing is shared values with this. But the OP's position here is one informed by a cultural background I am not very familiar with.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Livvie said:


> You mean your second husband?
> 
> So, he married you as a divorcee with children, so very obviously not a virgin. How do you square that with him wanting a virgin the first time around? Why didn't he also want a virgin the second time around?🤔🤔 He wanted a virgin in the past. You weren't. Does he view you as damaged goods? If not, why is there a double standard applying to his first versus his second wife???


I was actually talking about him and his first wife.
When you have had to divorce against your will in your 40's, clearly its unlikely that you havent been married before so of course you wont be virgins. We still waited for sex till we married and were both faithful in our long first marriages.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> I don’t think anyone has a beef that virginity is important to him and I certainly haven’t seen anyone getting angry about that.
> 
> My issue is he is being a jerk about it and sticking his fingers up in there as some kind of test to determine her virginity or lack there of and then accusing her of virginity fraud by using inaccurate assumptions on what a Virgin should feel like and what signs and symptoms he believes (inaccurately) she should have.
> 
> ...


We cant judge him by our culture, things are done very differently outside the west.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> We cant judge him by our culture, things are done very differently outside the west.


Yeah, we should not have judged Hitler and the Nazi's for herding people into gas chambers and crematoriums. The Nazi culture was different from our own, we should have respected that. 

OK, that may have been a little harsh, but my point is a jerk is jerk. It's ok for different cultures and religions to have different beliefs and values. 

But he was using inaccurate and false assumptions as license to treat her badly and judge her inappropriately and make unsubstantiated accusations against her based on his own ignorance. 

That's a jerk. It doesn't matter what culture/religion he is.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, we should not have judged Hitler and the Nazi's for herding people into gas chambers and crematoriums. The Nazi culture was different from our own, we should have respected that.
> 
> OK, that may have been a little harsh, but my point is a jerk is jerk. It's ok for different cultures and religions to have different beliefs and values.
> 
> ...


I also need to add that virginity fraud or even just the suspicion or accusation of virginity fraud in certain places can have deadly consequences. 

Even in places where bride burning and honor killing isn’t technically legal, authorities still look the other way when women are set on fire or killed by their husbands or in-laws. 

Depending on location and prevailing religious and cultural practices, the OP might be making accusations or setting up suspicions that could get her seriously harmed, mutilated or even killed,,, all based on ignorance, misinformation and false assumptions.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

To be fair to the OP, he just didn't know what to expect or look for. He was told something about two fingers which I still don't know how that is supposed to prove anything (especially, given the variances in finger sizes). A missing hymen can be attributed to many, many activities or not having much of one to begin with. Bleeding may or may not occur.

What is curious is he didn't worry about the hymen/virgin until he noticed she was looking at other guys. I guess she is supposed to stare at the ground. Insecurities and jealousy bundled up into a 'cultural/tradition' issue.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, we should not have judged Hitler and the Nazi's for herding people into gas chambers and crematoriums. The Nazi culture was different from our own, we should have respected that.
> 
> OK, that may have been a little harsh, but my point is a jerk is jerk. It's ok for different cultures and religions to have different beliefs and values.
> 
> ...


Crazy comparison of course, especially as the nazis were from the west. I do think its quite arrogant for us in the west to always assume that our ways are the only right ones and the best ones.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> Crazy comparison of course, especially as the nazis were from the west. I do think its quite arrogant for us in the west to always assume that our ways are the only right ones and the best ones.


There’s a difference between best practices and abuse and human rights violations. 

It’s one thing to value abstinence before marriage.

It’s another to abuse and even harm or kill people based on ignorance and misinformation.

You do realize in some of these places, women are still being set on fire and killed for suspected sexual activity right?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

oldshirt said:


> There’s a difference between best practices and abuse and human rights violations.
> 
> It’s one thing to value abstinence before marriage.
> 
> ...


And in many countries away from the west women have similar oppotunities to those they have in the west. We only hear about the places where bad things happen.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Diana7 said:


> And in many countries away from the west women have similar oppotunities to those they have in the west. We only hear about the places where bad things happen.


That doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on though.


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

...


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

minimalME said:


> _You're_ seriously going to use this as an argument?
> 
> Think about the majority of what you post on this site.
> 
> ...


Well done.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> I am curious - are you posting all these justifications for why virginity is better and more valuable (to YOU) so that you can convince other people that you are right...or are you interested in gaining understanding of what other people believe about the same issue...?
> 
> I'm NOT being snarky or sarcastic...I'm really asking and wanting to know your answer...


OK, an honest question deserves an honest answer. But I'm going to go about it in a roundabout way.

A number of university professors have now published similar essays about how universities do an intellectual disservice to liberal students and it is the conservative students who receive the most intellectually rewarding educations. What's their argument. The liberal students are in an environment where they experience massive confirmation bias, their views are almost universally supported, by their peers, by faculty, by administration, by media, by popular culture. So, what's the deal with conservative students? Their views are almost universally challenged and this means they have to think very hard about their views and refine them in response to challenges. 

Another aspect those conservative students face is what Jonathon Haidt writes about in his book The Righteous Mind, conservatives have all of the mental moral modules of liberals and so can understand the world view of liberals, the liberals though lack a few moral modules possessed by conservatives and so they have a hell of a time understanding the views of conservatives. Those conservative university students know in full detail ALL of those liberal arguments. How? They're bathed in the cultural messaging, they get it in schools, they get it from media, they get it from government, they get it from the university culture, and they reject those liberal views in order to hold better, more sound, conservative views which they can defend against the liberal critiques. That's why those liberal university professors came out with their statements, they put high value on the process that those conservative students undergo.

So why am I arguing this virginity viewpoint? I already know the "culturally approved" message, inside and out. I reject it. If there is someone on this forum who is participating in this thread who has a NOVEL justification, hey, I'm all eyes and ears, bring it on, I like novel arguments. Short of that, no, I'm not learning anything new from reading messages which simply push the universal dogma of our times.

My starting point on most cultural issues is the following - the culture is a sewer, culture is degrading rather than improving over time. This means that I de facto reject every single cultural innovation. This then requires that I have to examine why I reject each new position and develop some damn reasoning for my rejection and for my embrace of some other standard. If I fail at this personal thought exercise, then I concede and adopt the new cultural thinking. So, with this virginity thing, I never sought out my wife because she was a virgin, that was pure luck, so my argument is not something personal and dear to me, my argument comes from the 50,000 ft. level, if the cultural propaganda is that a woman's path to personal growth is to sample 50 penises, then that comes from a decrepit culture where morons and degenerates have captured the commanding heights and so there must be something glaringly wrong with that view. Over the years I've examined this topic and concluded that the prevailing viewpoint is degenerate and wrong. My own personal circumstances are not the motivation, they serve as a source to validate, test, some of my positions.

Hope that addressed your question.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> This is off the path but I agree with @Personal on this one.
> 
> I won't try and contradict what studies have shown and I know the majority of women state they want a tall man as a partner (at least taller than them) but I didn't know that really until coming to TAM and doing other research.
> 
> In the wild, I had zero issues dating taller women.


Search out a photo of former Congressman Dennis Kucinich standing next to his wife. Or Mickey Rooney next to any of his. Yeah, this is not some iron-clad rule at work here, it's more like a piece of woven fabric and the percentage of air gap between the threads is about 5%, so of course some shorter men will end up with women taller than them.

The same applies to this female promiscuity issue. Some men do, in fact, marry porn stars and former porn stars. Other men have no problems with marrying promiscuous women, either because they have low self-esteem and don't believe that they deserve better or because they want to personally benefit from her libido and talent - they want a porn star in their own marital bed. That's not most men though and it never has been. Pulled from an earlier era is the saying "there's two types of women, those you play around with and those that you marry.": I'm guessing that viewpoint goes back to the dawn of humanity and it still exists today.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> Yeah, we should not have judged Hitler and the Nazi's for herding people into gas chambers and crematoriums. The Nazi culture was different from our own, we should have respected that.
> 
> OK, that may have been a little harsh, but my point is a jerk is jerk. It's ok for different cultures and religions to have different beliefs and values.
> 
> ...


The OP performed some tribal-level, folklore, test on his bride on their honeymoon in order to confirm for himself that the promises made to him in the courting stage where indeed honest representations about his wife.

That is no different than a bride calling Equifax and pulling a credit report on her husband on their honeymoon in order to insure that the promises he made about his assets and income during the courting stage were indeed accurate representations of himself.

The comparison is, of course, not perfect because a woman can verify the man's promises without having to first get married and then go on a honeymoon, but if a woman's virginity is the issue, then there is no, culturally approved, way for the man to verify other than to marry her and then deflower her.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have...


A better method is to put your ear next to it and listen closely: if you hear the tunes of “I Vow To Thee My Country” or a similar hymn, then she’s probably not a virgin anymore..

Alternatively, have you tried asking her? I do hope that this criteria will not affect how you feel about women. This is not the most important consideration.


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## moon7 (May 5, 2013)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?



You could have known if you had looked down there before. 

This skin (hymn) is near the outside area, not inside. 

And the tightness depend more of the size of her vagina, not virginity (but if you brutaly stretch it will probably get a bit larger and after childbirt will lose a bit of grip too). 

Now you can ask her.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Diana7 said:


> Somewhat squewed, I think you will find that the poster has said many many more things than that and I dont remember actually reading him saying what you said. I appreciate that it goes against the flow on this forum to believe that sex before marriage is for many not right, and that it seems to get some people angry when its mentioned which I cant understand, but Its refreshing when someone else actually believes along those lines and also researches it and the consequences.


The issue is not so much whether one believes sex outside of marriage is bad; it's really not that simple. 

On the one hand you may have two similarly-thinking people who have chosen that path, without coercion or shame or guilt, and whose values aren't different for men vs women (as in, the guy gets a pass for a youthful indiscretion or mistake, but the woman has "lost" something of such value that she no longer has the same "worth" to a potential husband as she otherwise might have).

On the other you may find a guy who believes he has a right to a woman whose purity is beyond question, and maybe he can find that woman, but then goes so far as to require a series of tests to prove her purity, instead of learning enough about her to understand who and what she is. She may very well have remained a virgin until her wedding night, but it all goes to hell (perhaps literally) when he somehow has the right to question it, to torment her, but the reverse is rarely seen.

In the OP's case, we really don't have much to go on. It comes across as if he doesn't really know his wife at all, and surprises her with a litmus test of virginity (two fingers, looseness, no blood) on their wedding night???!!! The time and place for this is not then and there. When such things are important, they should be discussed and understood ahead of time.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> OK, an honest question deserves an honest answer. But I'm going to go about it in a roundabout way.
> 
> A number of university professors have now published similar essays about how universities do an intellectual disservice to liberal students and it is the conservative students who receive the most intellectually rewarding educations. What's their argument. The liberal students are in an environment where they experience massive confirmation bias, their views are almost universally supported, by their peers, by faculty, by administration, by media, by popular culture. So, what's the deal with conservative students? Their views are almost universally challenged and this means they have to think very hard about their views and refine them in response to challenges.
> 
> ...


Ok, well, it kind of addressed my question...I guess mostly...

I just want you to know, though, that alot of what you say (and some of it is too lengthy for me to read completely), doesn't ring true for ME - and I was a virgin with my first husband, and stayed with him for 15 years...and then only had sex after that (for the past 17 years) with the man who is my second husband. So I would consider myself to have some experience with how a woman who has had one partner feels about sex (although I would never think MY personal feelings and views are shared by all others)...and most of what you have generalized about doesn't match up with how I felt about sex with my first husband.

And that's ok...I'm not challenging your views! But I guess I'm challenging you to think about them. 
And of course, only IF you care to!


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, well, it kind of addressed my question...I guess mostly...
> 
> I just want you to know, though, that alot of what you say (and some of it is too lengthy for me to read completely), doesn't ring true for ME - and I was a virgin with my first husband, and stayed with him for 15 years...and then only had sex after that (for the past 17 years) with the man who is my second husband. So I would consider myself to have some experience with how a woman who has had one partner feels about sex (although I would never think MY personal feelings and views are shared by all others)...and most of what you have generalized about doesn't match up with how I felt abpit sex with my first husband.
> 
> ...


If my views are outside the norm, then doesn't it follow that I have indeed thought about them. How else would they have gotten to be outside the norm?

If you have a question/issue/problem with a specific view I espouse, I'm open to engaging on the very specific issue.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Lance Mannion said:


> And you're simply wrong. Deal with it.


LoL.

Not too much longer.😉


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

minimalME said:


> _You're_ seriously going to use this as an argument? 😳
> 
> Think about the majority of what you post on this site.
> 
> ...


Just for clarity. I am a Bible believing Christian and often disagree with her.

I also often agree with you.

I don't want all of her baggage laid at the feet of my God. 

Her baggage is hers to own.

I enjoyed your post obviously.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> *If my views are outside the norm, then doesn't it follow that I have indeed thought about them. How else would they have gotten to be outside the norm?*
> 
> If you have a question/issue/problem with a specific view I espouse, I'm open to engaging on the very specific issue.


Well, I meant challenge your views that they could be wrong for SOME women/people. I haven't read much in anything you've written about those views that makes any allowances for those of us who fall outside of YOUR "norm", so I am not sure that you have actually done that. 

I actually have no problem with any of the views you espouse...I simply believe you are wrong about them.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Ok, well, it kind of addressed my question...I guess mostly...
> 
> I just want you to know, though, that alot of what you say (and some of it is too lengthy for me to read completely), doesn't ring true for ME - and I was a virgin with my first husband, and stayed with him for 15 years...and then only had sex after that (for the past 17 years) with the man who is my second husband. So I would consider myself to have some experience with how a woman who has had one partner feels about sex (although I would never think MY personal feelings and views are shared by all others)...and most of what you have generalized about doesn't match up with how I felt about sex with my first husband.
> 
> ...


I'm coming back to your comment because I thought about it a bit more. As I've already revealed, I also have a virgin bride in my life. She's an intelligent woman, entered a prestigious university at 16, began a 7-year combined degree program for a BSc and a professional health degree. My views on this subject are disproportionately influenced by her views, her intellectual battles with her friends, and her life attitudes picked up from her parents. We're like two planets orbiting each other, her intellectual/personal gravity influences my orbit, I do the same with her.

So I think I've got a pretty good inside view on what a woman thinks when she marries her first man. I'm not really sure on what exactly you think I've got wrong in my views.


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> I'm coming back to your comment because I thought about it a bit more. As I've already revealed, I also have a virgin bride in my life. She's an intelligent woman, entered a prestigious university at 16, began a 7-year combined degree program for a BSc and a professional health degree. My views on this subject are disproportionately influenced by her views, her intellectual battles with her friends, and her life attitudes picked up from her parents. We're like two planets orbiting each other, her intellectual/personal gravity influences my orbit, I do the same with her.
> 
> So I think I've got a pretty good inside view on what a woman thinks when she marries her first man. I'm not really sure on what exactly you think I've got wrong in my views.


What I think you've got wrong in your views is from the way you presented them, that they cover how ALL women who were virgins with their husbands feel about sex and their marriages...and that's simply not true...not for ME at least.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> Well, I meant challenge your views that they could be wrong for SOME women/people. I haven't read much in anything you've written about those views that makes any allowances for those of us who fall outside of YOUR "norm", so I am not sure that you have actually done that.
> 
> I actually have no problem with any of the views you espouse...I simply believe you are wrong about them.


OK. got you.

Those who fall outside the norm, they're the folks who have some reason to jump outside of the river current that is cultural instruction. I jumped out, my wife jumped out, my parents jumped out, her parents jumped out. You jumped out too. But also let's keep in mind, that when most of us jumped out and did our thing, our way, we did it in the past, what I'm describing is what is playing out today, so you're not facing what is playing out today and neither did ConanHub, and for that matter, neither did I or my wife, so I'm not speaking from personal experience. I'm 42, so I'm not out there navigating the dating market as a man in my 20s and you're not a woman in your 20s out there either.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> What I think you've got wrong in your views is from the way you presented them, that they cover how ALL women who were virgins with their husbands feel about sex and their marriages...and that's simply not true...not for ME at least.


How about giving me some food for thought. What exactly do you disagree with? What do you think about being a virgin with your husband, how is your view different from what I wrote?


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## LisaDiane (Jul 22, 2019)

Lance Mannion said:


> How about giving me some food for thought. What exactly do you disagree with? What do you think about being a virgin with your husband, how is your view different from what I wrote?


Ok, I might!
But in the interest of being coherent (since I had to edit my last post 3 times to fix the typos), it will need to wait until tomorrow!! Lol!


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

when a hymen can be broken from riding a horse, or sneezing hard, or from a million things that arent sex...

yeah, the meaning of virginity starts to fade.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Blondilocks said:


> Some cultures do practice sewing the vagina shut. Some also practice gavage - forcefeeding very young girls so they will become obese and can be married off earlier. Mali and Mauritania have been known to practice FGM as well as both of the above. FGM is much more prevalent, though.


Yes some cultures do practice sewing the vagina shut. When I lived in Africa, it was common. It was also common for a husband to have his wife's vagina sewed close when he traveled so he could be sure that she was not cheating. When he returned home, he'd cut the stiches. It's disgusting.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?


You cannot tell if a woman is a virgin based on a hymn, if she bleeds, or how loose/tight she is. These are old tales that only serve to harm people. 

The only way you can know if she's a virgin is if she's had a child or if she tells you. Either you trust your wife or you don't. 

What would you do if you found out that she is not a virgin? Would you stay married to her?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

*This thread has turned into a huge thread jack that is not even related to the OP's issues. The thread jack stops NOW. Anyone who continues the thread jack will enjoy a time-out ban to contemplate your nonsense.

{Speaking as a moderator.}*


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> Yes some cultures do practice sewing the vagina shut. When I lived in Africa, it was common. It was also common for a husband to have his wife's vagina sewed close when he traveled so he could be sure that she was not cheating. When he returned home, he'd cut the stiches. It's disgusting.


Customs usually don't drop from the sky, they arise to serve some purpose.



> Scelza's study, published in the journal _Science Advances_, uses data from a long-term anthropological study in Namibia with Himba pastoralists. She found that Himba have the highest recorded rate of what researchers call "extra-pair paternity." The term refers to an instance in which a child is born to a married couple, but the husband is not the biological father.
> 
> *The rate of extra-pair paternity found among Himba is 48%*, far exceeding the 1% to 10% range previously thought to be typical for humans. Having children with non-marital partners was widespread among this group. *A high percentage of couples (70%) had at least one child who was fathered by someone outside the marriage*.


The reality on the ground leads to social rules. Here's one example which arises from paternal uncertainty.



> It was Mr. Sululu who came to his village five years ago, after his father died, and commandeered all of the family's belongings -- mattresses, chairs and, most important, the family's green Toyota pickup, an almost unimaginable luxury in this, one of the poorest nations on earth. And it was Mr. Sululu who rejected the pleas of the boy's mother, herself dying of AIDS, to leave the truck so that her children would have an inheritance to sustain them after her death. Instead, Chikumbutso said, he left behind a battery-powered transistor radio. . . . .
> 
> Actually, the answer is simple: custom. Throughout sub-Saharan Africa *the death of a father automatically entitles his side of the family to claim most, if not all, of the property he leaves behind, even if it leaves his survivors destitute.*


When social behaviors are such that a man cannot have high certainty that the children in his family are his, then rules will be devised so that his birth family will inherit his worldly goods. He can be certain that he is related to his siblings, birthed by the same mother.

As for the FGM, there is a link to paternal uncertainty:



> Our results show that FGC status does not affect the odds of women engaging in several indicators of premarital sex, however *women with FGC have significantly lower odds of having more than one lifetime sexual partner.* We also show that women with FGC get married at a younger age which supports the argument that FGC status influences women's marriage opportunities, even when it does not restrict sexual activity. Finally, we find that in population groups where reported sexual activity and perceived risk of women's extra-pair sex is high, men have higher odds of marrying a first wife with FGC. *Together, these results indicate that paternity certainty may be one of several factors contributing to the persistence of FGC* in this sample, and that group-level sexual norms are key to maintaining the practice of FGC through the marriage market.


These parallel mating relationships are also the reason that AIDS is so prevalent in sub-Saharan Africa. Fixing these many problems is not simple because when you pull on one thread, you start unraveling something else in society.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

EleGirl said:


> *This thread has turned into a huge thread jack that is not even related to the OP's issues. The thread jack stops NOW. Anyone who continues the thread jack will enjoy a time-out ban to contemplate your nonsense.
> 
> {Speaking as a moderator.}*


How do I remove my last post, I posted and THEN saw your warning. Please delete my post if you believe it violates your ruling.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

So can anyone tell me is there a way to make virginity like have sex during menstrual pause or something. She said her period starts on 15 but when we had it it started on 13nth. So is there a way to fake it. I was able to put my fingers in without any issue 2 of them and she didn't bleed when I put my d inside she bleed after I cum and she said look m bleeding. It was little blood


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## minimalME (Jan 3, 2012)

...


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Fanman said:


> So can anyone tell me is there a way to make virginity like have sex during menstrual pause or something. She said her period starts on 15 but when we had it it started on 13nth. So is there a way to fake it. I was able to put my fingers in without any issue 2 of them and she didn't bleed when I put my d inside she bleed after I cum and she said look m bleeding. It was little blood


No. Will you please reconsider the finger test and actually read the replies (other than the self-indulgent off-subject rants).


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Fanman said:


> This is gone off topic
> 
> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


What will you do if you find out that she is not?

I honestly don’t think anyone here will be able to tell you if she is or she is not a virgin.

This thread is one of the strangest things I have read this week. And this includes the onion. 

I think it is ok to be respectful of other people’s cultures (up to a point) without wanting these aspects in one’s own culture...
Somehow I do not think the mindset can be changed with one thread so good luck to the OP with all the fingering and testing.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Here is the one issues I see with strictly desiring to marry a virgin. At some point many, many women who married as a virgin are going to start obsessing over what they missed out on. It will consume their thoughts. A good friend of mine is a psychologist, she works primarily with women and she has told me before that a lot of the women she sees who married as virgins are coming to her because of this. They are tortured by wondering what sex with a different man would be like. They have only had that excitement of a new lover once and their mind locks up with the curiosity and it starts to affect their feelings towards their husbands. All the rationalizing that it's more special and sex is better with someone you love and everything they have been told to believe doesn't matter.


So what you are saying is that you can’t really ‘win’, as a man: you marry a non-virgin and are forever wondering what she did with other men that she is not doing with you. You marry a virgin (after thorough testing ), and are forever wondering whether she is constantly thinking of what sex with other men is like...

As a man, I would find this an unbearable frame of mind to be in. Not to mention crazy.

Isn’t the solution obvious? Stop ****ing wondering. A woman’s sexuality is a very real (and special) thing. And a man should, IMO, admire and cherish it (regardless of what her past, present or future experiences are, real or imagined), not try to claim possession of it. That’s a cultural value I’m happy to keep.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

Fanman said:


> So can anyone tell me is there a way to make virginity like have sex during menstrual pause or something. She said her period starts on 15 but when we had it it started on 13nth. So is there a way to fake it. I was able to put my fingers in without any issue 2 of them and she didn't bleed when I put my d inside she bleed after I cum and she said look m bleeding. It was little blood


How old are you? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Fanman,

Possibly you can have your W take a polygraph.

If you are in a culture where everyone knows everyone else have you checked into her reputation and history?

You can also check yourself for STDs, if you were a Virgin and your W claims to be a virgin and you have an STD you know that it came from your W.

For posters who are critical of Fanman for his concerns keep in mind that he could be equally critical of the current sexual looseness of western culture. There are serious tradeoffs to either system.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

I am not certain what I would find more demeaning as a woman...the constant fingering or the polygraphing about an issue that is of no one’s business but her own.
Always feel sorry reading threads like these. I better stop. xx


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Imperfections said:


> So what you are saying is that you can’t really ‘win’, as a man: you marry a non-virgin and are forever wondering what she did with other men that she is not doing with you. You marry a virgin (after thorough testing ), and are forever wondering whether she is constantly thinking of what sex with other men is like...
> 
> As a man, I would find this an unbearable frame of mind to be in. Not to mention crazy.
> 
> Isn’t the solution obvious? Stop ****ing wondering. A woman’s sexuality is a very real (and special) thing. And a man should, IMO, admire and cherish it (regardless of what her past, present or future experiences are, real or imagined), not try to claim possession of it. That’s a cultural value I’m happy to keep.


I don't think my post had anything to do with the mans perspective. I don't think most guys, myself included care about a woman's history. My point was anecdotal about what a psychologist friend has seen in her practice relating to female patients issues. Just something to consider for a guy focused on marrying a virgin, two sides to the coin so to speak. The OP was bemoaning his wife looking at other guys, maybe she was wondering if the guys had bigger fingers.

My personal POV, I would tell younger people to 1. Have sex before marriage and 2. Live together before getting married.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Isn't this all moot?

They are already married!!!!!!!!

She wasn't pregnant at the time of marriage.

They have had sex. She's not a virgin anymore.

Hasn't the ship sailed?

OP should just enjoy his marriage.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Fanman said:


> So can anyone tell me is there a way to make virginity like have sex during menstrual pause or something. She said her period starts on 15 but when we had it it started on 13nth. So is there a way to fake it. I was able to put my fingers in without any issue 2 of them and she didn't bleed when I put my d inside she bleed after I cum and she said look m bleeding. It was little blood


As some people have told you there is no way to be sure. But this certainly would have described when I lost my virginity. There was no initial blood or visible blood on his penis. But later that same night I had blood when I wiped after going to the bathroom.

Could you fake it. I guess if you kept blood around and somehow inserted it after sex or something. But honestly doesn't sound like she faked it. You will never know for sure. Deal with your other issues.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Livvie said:


> Hasn't the ship sailed?


Not if she lied about being a virgin before they were married. In that case it is more like a cause for annulment. 

Another subtle point, at least to Westerners, is that she may have taken his virginity which may reduce his value within that culture.

Lying in such a cultural context is an egregious form of theft.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Ms. Hawaii said:


> How old are you?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I m 31 years of age.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> Probably a lot more marriages would be successful if the woman's skill was prized instead of her lack of skill. And how would she be most likely to develop that skill? Practice. Also, a woman who practices knows what she likes and doesn't like, and the man can more easily figure out if they are sexually compatible ahead of marriage.
> 
> For the original poster, I'm sad for you that this is so important to you, rather than all the other wonderful qualities your wife may possess. My advice is to just accept her word that she was a virgin, and move on to make your marriage the best it can be. If she looks at other people, that's just a human thing to do.
> 
> ...


She and husband can develop that skill together. Sadly i had read studies in the past that the more past partners a woman had the less satisfied she was with her husband. I would rather she not be thinking that Jack did this or i wish he could do that like Jim or i like the way bill did this. Rather not have those other guys in her head and vice versa. Im sure most people would rather not have their skills judged according to your spouses other sex partners abilities.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> What is left unexamined is the common phenomenon of a woman experimenting with past lovers and then deciding that the experimentation is done with and her husband gets the slim pickings.
> 
> Also left unexamined is the "5 minutes of Alpha is better than the 50 years with the Beta." She gets sexually "imprinted" by some guy and her husband can't "best" him. This is why so, so many, women deeply feel that they've settled for their husbands. Male and female mating strategies are quite different from each other.
> 
> ...


In the past i read study that the more partners a woman had the less satisfied she was with her husband, so there is merits to what you are saying.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

How is your post helpful @Divinely Favored, I mean seriously that kind of talk only feeds the flames of doubt. Which is really frightening, since a woman's safety and even her life may be at risk in supporting this nonsense.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

The OP is wrong, The End!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fanman said:


> This is gone off topic
> 
> The reason I think she is faking it. Is because when I put it inside and after I finished she said look m bleeding and there was no blood on my d. The blood came out after when it should have some on my d.


She is not going to bleed like when on a period. If she was bleeding afterward i would tend to believe her as long as she was not starting/ending a period. Again if she has used tampons that is another reason for torn hymen.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> Honestly I know many women who had no or few(maybe one ot two) previous sexual partners before they married, and they are all in long happy marriages. To say that most women in that position are 'tortured' is just weird. Maybe a small number but not most.
> I do know women who regret having had sex with others before they married though. They wish they had waited.


This. But now a days these are sadly in the slim minority. I said no to opportunities till 22/23 and then threw it away due to being angry at someone. Was not due to loving the girl i was with. Met my wife 1.5yrs later. Wish i had waited as now i have memories of others in my head where i wish it was only my wife in there.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Livvie said:


> You mean your second husband?
> 
> So, he married you as a divorcee with children, so very obviously not a virgin. How do you square that with him wanting a virgin the first time around? Why didn't he also want a virgin the second time around?🤔🤔 He wanted a virgin in the past. You weren't. Does he view you as damaged goods? If not, why is there a double standard applying to his first versus his second wife???


I see it as moral values standard. My wife was married to her 1st at 16 and we met a month before her divorce was finalized. She had sex many, many times with him, but to me i would see her in same category as a someone who waited. I would have married her even if i had not been with another. I wished i had met her when i was in college and looking for the one. Now if the previous 10 yrs were with 50-100 guys i would have passed.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> And you're simply wrong. Deal with it.


I could agree with you, 🤔but then we would both be wrong! 😆


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Anastasia6 said:


> As some people have told you there is no way to be sure. But this certainly would have described when I lost my virginity. There was no initial blood or visible blood on his penis. But later that same night I had blood when I wiped after going to the bathroom.
> 
> Could you fake it. I guess if you kept blood around and somehow inserted it after sex or something. But honestly doesn't sound like she faked it. You will never know for sure. Deal with your other issues.


Her periods were to star on 15 and we had it on 12 and her periods started early because she bled the next the next day so could she have faked it with menstrual blood or something because I said to her before having sex that virgin women bleed the first time and then we had sex later on that day or the next day. Prior to that I did finger her with 2 fingers and a single finger but then she said put d inside and I did and that's when I spunked up inside after that she the blood came out after I finished


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> She is not going to bleed like when on a period. If she was bleeding afterward i would tend to believe her as long as she was not starting/ending a period. Again if she has used tampons that is another reason for torn hymen.


She was starting her periods 3 days later ...


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Divinely Favored said:


> She is not going to bleed like when on a period. If she was bleeding afterward i would tend to believe her as long as she was not starting/ending a period. Again if she has used tampons that is another reason for torn hymen.


Actually most girls Hymens have torn/degraded by teen years. It would be uncommon for a woman in her early 20s or even late teens to still have a fully intact hymen.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> Her periods were to star on 15 and we had it on 12 and her periods started early because she bled the next the next day so could she have faked it with menstrual blood or something because I said to her before having sex that virgin women bleed the first time and then we had sex later on that day or the next day. Prior to that I did finger her with 2 fingers and a single finger but then she said put d inside and I did and that's when I spunked up inside after that she the blood came out after I finished





Fanman said:


> She was starting her periods 3 days later ...


I have not read all of the responses (although I did see the Mod warning!). I did scan through and read all the OP posts, and the sheer amount of biological ignorance (lack of knowledge, a correctable condition) is astounding.

First off a hymen is no indication of virginity, especially in today's world of physical activity for females. Secondly, bleeding is also no true indication, especially if the hymen had previously torn due to other nonsexual activity. These are both myths from times when humans did not have a true understanding of how the human body worked. As to the date of her period starting, all kinds of conditions can cause a cycle to be off by a few days. It is not even unusual for a woman to have a period twice within a single calendar month. The "two finger rule" is also lacking any foundation in reality. I've known women who are very sexually active who are practically virgin tight, and others who could accommodate a lot even at little to no activity.

There simply isn't any 100% absolute way to confirm that a person is a virgin. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Either you trust your wife when she says she was a virgin when you married her, or you live a life forever never trusting her even when she tells the truth.

Oh yeah, the whole looking at other men thing? Being married to someone does not mean that you no longer appreciate the view of others of the sex that attracts you. Acting upon that appreciation is another thing altogether. But looking? I'd be worried if my wives didn't notice and look at other good looking men.

Now I have to ask, with you at 31 years of age, how old is the woman you are asking about that you are expecting to be still a virgin? At 20, you are pushing it, even in many more conservative cultures.


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## Anastasia6 (May 28, 2017)

Fanman said:


> Her periods were to star on 15 and we had it on 12 and her periods started early because she bled the next the next day so could she have faked it with menstrual blood or something because I said to her before having sex that virgin women bleed the first time and then we had sex later on that day or the next day. Prior to that I did finger her with 2 fingers and a single finger but then she said put d inside and I did and that's when I spunked up inside after that she the blood came out after I finished


Yep and you seem to be stuck on this two finger thing. I'd forget that. I had boys put fingers in me and not come out with blood. Yes 2 fingers. No one can tell you for sure but sounds like virgin to me.


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## Erysimum (Jun 20, 2020)

Id have to agree two-fingers is no indication, Hymens arent necessarily like a fully covered piece of skin that would break when putting in your fingers, she could have a perfectly intact hymen, and then when you put in your fingers, if you aren't rough with the movement of your fingers, no tearing or blood would come of it. When I first had sex I was fingered and had very slow gentle sex because I was scared and I didn't bleed until my second time when he was a bit rougher.
I can also say that having sex can jumpstart my period by a few days, so while I don't think your wife used her period to 'fake blood', the sex you had might've made her period come sooner.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Since I first looked at this nauseating thread, either the flag adjacent to the OP's avatar has changed or I misinterpreted the color of the stripe on the left side. Now the flag looks like Pakistan. My post below still applies since FGM is also practiced in Pakistan. 

*However more alarming is the fact that, in Pakistan, a sharia honor killing may befall his wife if the OP is successful in proving she was not a virgin. Please Tam'ers lets not support this barbaric practice by addressing this OP and his delusions of what virginity means ... a life may be at stake.*

@EleGirl , please consider closing or deleting this thread.



Red Sonja said:


> If the TAM software has identified this persons location (flag icon) correctly he is from *Mauritania*, a country where the vast majority of women have experienced *Female Gender Mutilation*.
> 
> That fact certainly tells something about the value of women in their "culture". This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".
> 
> OP, has your wife had her genitals mutilated?


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Red Sonja said:


> Since I first looked at this nauseating thread, either the flag adjacent to the OP's avatar has changed or I misinterpreted the color of the stripe on the left side. Now the flag looks like Pakistan. My post below still applies since FGM is also practiced in Pakistan.
> 
> *However more alarming is the fact that, in Pakistan, a sharia honor killing may befall his wife if the OP is successful in proving she was not a virgin. Please Tam'ers lets not support this barbaric practice by addressing this OP and his delusions of what virginity means ... a life may be at stake.*
> 
> @EleGirl , please consider closing or deleting this thread.


This is all conjecture on your part. You introduced FGM into the thread, now you introduced honor killings, and now you're advocating for censoring on the basis of your imagined threats.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Lance Mannion said:


> This is all conjecture on your part. You introduced FGM into the thread, now you introduced honor killings, and now you're advocating for censoring on the basis of your imagined threats.


All I can say is that you must not keep current with what goes on in Pakistan or anywhere else outside your bubble.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Red Sonja said:


> Since I first looked at this nauseating thread, either the flag adjacent to the OP's avatar has changed or I misinterpreted the color of the stripe on the left side. Now the flag looks like Pakistan. My post below still applies since FGM is also practiced in Pakistan.
> 
> *However more alarming is the fact that, in Pakistan, a sharia honor killing may befall his wife if the OP is successful in proving she was not a virgin. Please Tam'ers lets not support this barbaric practice by addressing this OP and his delusions of what virginity means ... a life may be at stake.*
> 
> @EleGirl , please consider closing or deleting this thread.


I don't do honor killing lol not that bad here only free villages they do that


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> I have not read all of the responses (although I did see the Mod warning!). I did scan through and read all the OP posts, and the sheer amount of biological ignorance (lack of knowledge, a correctable condition) is astounding.
> 
> First off a hymen is no indication of virginity, especially in today's world of physical activity for females. Secondly, bleeding is also no true indication, especially if the hymen had previously torn due to other nonsexual activity. These are both myths from times when humans did not have a true understanding of how the human body worked. As to the date of her period starting, all kinds of conditions can cause a cycle to be off by a few days. It is not even unusual for a woman to have a period twice within a single calendar month. The "two finger rule" is also lacking any foundation in reality. I've known women who are very sexually active who are practically virgin tight, and others who could accommodate a lot even at little to no activity.
> 
> ...


She is 26


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> She is 26


In most western cultures, the odds of a virgin that old is very slim. I will not claim any odds for your culture, as I am not as familiar with it. Regardless of culture, a woman with an intact hymen, even a virgin, is approaching nil. Add to that the actual physical and medical variations that exist among women, again regardless of culture, it is just impossible to prove virginity or lack thereof, especially under the conditions you described. Unless you have something that would indicate an overwhelming need to lie about it, the most likely outcome is that she was a virgin prior to your marriage, assuming no prior marriages. There simply isn't much reason to lie about such a thing.


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

What is a "free village" and how close are they to you?


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Galabar01 said:


> What is a "free village" and how close are they to you?


I live in a city and it's not a village it's not everywhere that stuff but mine has got to do with understanding whether girl is telling the truth or not. In advance I told her there should be blood so I m thinking if she could have faked it we had it the same day. A bit later on after 3 or 4 hours we came back and we had it.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

EleGirl said:


> Yes some cultures do practice sewing the vagina shut. When I lived in Africa, it was common. It was also common for a husband to have his wife's vagina sewed close when he traveled so he could be sure that she was not cheating. When he returned home, he'd cut the stiches. It's disgusting.


I agree, appalling.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> This. But now a days these are sadly in the slim minority. I said no to opportunities till 22/23 and then threw it away due to being angry at someone. Was not due to loving the girl i was with. Met my wife 1.5yrs later. Wish i had waited as now i have memories of others in my head where i wish it was only my wife in there.


Yes I know what you mean.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> I see it as moral values standard. My wife was married to her 1st at 16 and we met a month before her divorce was finalized. She had sex many, many times with him, but to me i would see her in same category as a someone who waited. I would have married her even if i had not been with another. I wished i had met her when i was in college and looking for the one. Now if the previous 10 yrs were with 50-100 guys i would have passed.


To be honest I just dont remember much at all about being with my ex, I guess it is 21 years since the marriage ended, but we both say that its like our previous marriages were in a different life time.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Diana7 said:


> To be honest I just dont remember much at all about being with my ex, I guess it is 21 years since the marriage ended, but we both say that its like our previous marriages were in a different life time.


What we have is far superior to her 10 yrs with her serial cheating ex. She tells me all the time she is greatful for us and she never knew what love was supposed to be like until me.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> What we have is far superior to her 10 yrs with her serial cheating ex. She tells me all the time she is greatful for us and she never knew what love was supposed to be like until me.


Awww that's lovely. 💑 We are both much happier this time round.


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## BlueWoman (Jan 8, 2015)

Oh for the love of....

A bunch of you all need some female anatomy lessons. 

There is no physical marker that indicates if a woman is a virgin. Virginity is a construct. You can no more tell if she is a virgin (however you define that) by examining her vagina then you can judge a man's virginity by looking at his penis. It doesn't matter what culture you are from. You can never know 100%. You just have decide if you trust her or not. Sort of like she just has to trust the OP that he was a virgin (assuming he was).



> The hymen is a thin, fleshy tissue that’s located at the opening of your vagina.
> 
> There’s a lot of confusion about hymens out there. Many people think the hymen totally covers the opening of your vagina until it’s stretched open, but that’s not usually the case. Most of the time, hymens naturally have a hole big enough for period blood to come out and for you to use tampons comfortably. Some people are born with so little hymenal tissue that it seems like they don’t have a hymen at all. In rare cases, people have hymens that cover the entire vaginal opening, or the hole in their hymen is very small — they may need to see a doctor for a minor procedure to remove the extra tissue. Just like other parts of our body, hymens are a little different for everyone.
> 
> ...


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> I live in a city and it's not a village it's not everywhere that stuff but mine has got to do with understanding whether girl is telling the truth or not. In advance I told her there should be blood so I m thinking if she could have faked it we had it the same day. A bit later on after 3 or 4 hours we came back and we had it.


Here's what I'm not getting. Why marry someone if you don't already trust them to tell the truth?


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## Galabar01 (Mar 20, 2019)

Ok, I'm sharing this story in order to possibly save someone's life.

I had a friend in high school who had sex with a girl for the (both) first time. The next day they were messing around in the back of the guy's dad's car and blood all of a sudden got everywhere. They cleaned it up the best they could and the guy told the dad that he spilled a drink.

So, that happened the next day after the first intercourse...


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Basically I want to know if a person could fake it ?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I think you're going to have to ask someone in your community who may have knowledge of the need for a woman in your culture to pull off such a stunt.


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## Ms. Hawaii (Mar 28, 2018)

Fanman said:


> Basically I want to know if a person could fake it ?


No


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Fanman said:


> Basically I want to know if a person could fake it ?


My first girlfriend didn't believe I was a virgin either.....


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> Basically I want to know if a person could fake it ?


It can neither be proven nor faked. There is no true method to determine virginity short of the person's testimony.


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## TAMAT (Jun 20, 2015)

Fanman,

Do you believe your Wife is lying to you about her virginity?

Or was it only implied that she was a virgin.

You can prove she is not a virgin if you get tested and find out you have an STD.

Would you consider fingering by someone else the same as loss of virginity.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

TAMAT said:


> Fanman,
> 
> Do you believe your Wife is lying to you about her virginity?
> 
> ...


I don't know that's the thing I told her that virgin women bleed and then the same day free good later we had it. I could put my fingers inside but there was no blood however once I put my d in the blood came after I finished. I would consider looss of virginity if someone is fingered..


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

Fanman said:


> I don't know that's the thing I told her that virgin women bleed and then the same day free good later we had it. I could put my fingers inside but there was no blood however once I put my d in the blood came after I finished. I would consider looss of virginity if someone is fingered..


Look on the internet for a graphic of different hymen shapes. You put 2 fingers in, your penis is wider than 2 fingers. A hymen can have a natural perforation which will allow in 2 fingers, but cannot accept a wider penis. So when you put in your penis you ruptured her hymen. Your wife was a virgin. The proof is found in the hymen shape. Your 2 finger test only works on hymens with narrower perforations.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> Look on the internet for a graphic of different hymen shapes. You put 2 fingers in, your penis is wider than 2 fingers. A hymen can have a natural perforation which will allow in 2 fingers, but cannot accept a wider penis. So when you put in your penis you ruptured her hymen. Your wife was a virgin. The proof is found in the hymen shape. Your 2 finger test only works on hymens with narrower perforations.


I know I told her prior to having sex that a virgin should bleed and when I was putting in finger she said put the d in once I did that and finished nd I pulled it out blood came out. I was just thinking if someone could fake that like with menstrual blood etc? This was 3 or 4 days before her periods and then next day or after 2 days her periods started early .


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Fanman said:


> I know I told her prior to having sex that a virgin should bleed and when I was putting in finger she said put the d in once I did that and finished nd I pulled it out blood came out. I was just thinking if someone could fake that like with menstrual blood etc? This was 3 or 4 days before her periods and then next day or after 2 days her periods started early .


The problem is some women's hymen bleed and others don't. 

If your wife had her period two days later then I think whatever blood you saw it was her hymen breaking.

I've never experienced bleeding a tiny bit and then stopping for a day or two. I usually bleed a little and the amount increases within hours.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

pastasauce79 said:


> The problem is some women's hymen bleed and others don't.
> 
> If your wife had her period two days later then I think whatever blood you saw it was her hymen breaking.
> 
> I've never experienced bleeding a tiny bit and then stopping for a day or two. I usually bleed a little and the amount increases within hours.


So I broke get hymen and her periods started early is that what you are saying?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fanman said:


> I know I told her prior to having sex that a virgin should bleed and when I was putting in finger she said put the d in once I did that and finished nd I pulled it out blood came out. I was just thinking if someone could fake that like with menstrual blood etc? This was 3 or 4 days before her periods and then next day or after 2 days her periods started early .


I would believe she was. Whoever told yoy she should bleed like that if full of crap. Sounds like some "expert knowledge" my older cousin used to profess he knew about sex as early teens. 

You know what an expert is? An ex is a "has been" and a spert is a "drip under pressure"


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Fanman said:


> I don't know that's the thing I told her that virgin women bleed and then the same day free good later we had it. I could put my fingers inside but there was no blood however once I put my d in the blood came after I finished. I would consider looss of virginity if someone is fingered..


You consider it a "loss of virginity" if someone is fingered???

So anyone who has visited a gynecologist and been examined is not a virgin, by that definition. Geez.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> I would believe she was. Whoever told yoy she should bleed like that if full of crap. Sounds like some "expert knowledge" my older cousin used to profess he knew about sex as early teens.
> 
> You know what an expert is? An ex is a "has been" and a spert is a "drip under pressure"


You believe that she was a Virgin? Or she did some sort of a trick like menstrual blood I don't know if that's possible?


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## Spicy (Jun 18, 2016)

She was a virgin. YOU took her virginity. Now, love your wife.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Fanman said:


> You believe that she was a Virgin? Or she did some sort of a trick like menstrual blood I don't know if that's possible?


I would believe she was. She bled a little bit later and then started her period 2 days later correct?


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Fanman said:


> So I broke get hymen and her periods started early is that what you are saying?


Yes.

What we call a "regular cycle" could have a more or less 5 day window of opportunity. For example "regular" women can have their periods every 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 days and be considered "very regular."

Starting a period a little earlier or a little late doesn't mean anything if a woman has regular cycles. 

But every woman is different. What's normal for me it might not be normal or regular for your wife.


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## MaiChi (Jun 20, 2018)

Fanman said:


> Hi I would like to know if my partner was a virgin or not.
> 
> Basically I slept with her and I could put 1 or 2 of my fingers inside her but no blood. At the end of my finger I could feel a little hole. I thought that was hymns which virgin women have but through studies I have come to know that is not the case and it's external whereas a person cannot put two fingers in as the women will bleed. But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood. Can someone tell me whether that women Is a virgin or not?


The best person to ask is the woman herself. Virginity is not like a car model made on same production line with same specifications where someone can tell you the layout over the phone. Each person is different. Some bleed with sex, some do not. Also some non virgins may bleed a little. If you had sex with her and you are not married to her, you clearly care little about whether she should be a virgin or not.


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## maree (Jun 13, 2011)

I never bled when I lost my virginity, thats not the same for every woman. This is a myth. Maybe she should be asking you if you are really a virgin? Since you seem to think you know enough about difference between virgins and non virgins when it comes to having sex with them.

BTW, tightness also has nothing to do with virginity. Believe it or not they dont really get stretched out from having sex....


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Fourteen pages and the OP still does not understand the basics? It must be a language problem. It can't be that he's messing with us.


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## C.C. says ... (Aug 1, 2020)

I have to say ... I’ve only been here 4 months and this has got to be the lamest, grossest, thread here. How many fingers indeed. Ugh. Why’d you marry someone you don’t TRUST? That’s the question. Ok, I’m going to go back to ignoring this thread but I keep accidentally clicking it. Oh by the way, I feel sorry for your wife. That is all.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

I am a women's health nurse. It's my job to know women's anatomy. Trust me when I say, your wife was a virgin. Now stop being so suspicious and enjoy your wife and your marriage. And please don't continue to spread the misinformation you got about women's bodies to other men. You could be the cause of some poor women being abused because her husband simply doesn't know the facts about women's anatomy.

Not all women bleed the first time they have sex. Unless you were fingering her incredibly roughly 2 fingers would not cause bleeding. Women are not super tight...if they were, you wouldn't be able to get your penis inside, or if you did it would be so painful for her she wouldn't be able to continue having sex. These are all facts. Be grateful you have a good woman who, with some tender care and love from you may give you a good sex life.

As for your wife looking at other men. Some women feel more confident and less shy once they've had sex. They know their place now and feel safe with you so she doesn't have to shy away and hide from other men...they are just people now and nobody to fear because she has the protection of you.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> I am a women's health nurse. It's my job to know women's anatomy. Trust me when I say, your wife was a virgin. Now stop being so suspicious and enjoy your wife and your marriage. And please don't continue to spread the misinformation you got about women's bodies to other men. You could be the cause of some poor women being abused because her husband simply doesn't know the facts about women's anatomy.
> 
> Not all women bleed the first time they have sex. Unless you were fingering her incredibly roughly 2 fingers would not cause bleeding. Women are not super tight...if they were, you wouldn't be able to get your penis inside, or if you did it would be so painful for her she wouldn't be able to continue having sex. These are all facts. Be grateful you have a good woman who, with some tender care and love from you may give you a good sex life.
> 
> As for your wife looking at other men. Some women feel more confident and less shy once they've had sex. They know their place now and feel safe with you so she doesn't have to shy away and hide from other men...they are just people now and nobody to fear because she has the protection of you.


But could it be mentsrual blood?


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Fanman said:


> But could it be mentsrual blood?


The red thing is both blood, yes.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Fanman said:


> But could it be mentsrual blood?


I told her the virgin should bleed the same day we went somewhere after hours we came back and we did it. It just didn't sounded right to me it's a kind of arrange marriege


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> But could it be mentsrual blood?


When did she get her period after your first intercourse? Menstrual blood is usually different looking than regular blood. But once again, 2 fingers, unless you are purposefully trying to hurt the woman by jamming them in and out with vigor will usually NOT make a woman bleed. That's just the basic fact of anatomy. You're trying to find reasons why she is lying and they just don't exist. For God's sake, not even all women bleed when they have intercourse for the first time. All women's bodies are different. Women are not super tight until they have sex either. Again...not sure where you're getting your information but you're dead wrong in it.

The real issue is that you don't like that she meets other men's eyes. Is this something women are not supposed to do in your culture? If it's not then you need to get over yourself. If she wasn't doing that before but now she is, she probably just feels less intimidated by men in general now that she has you...she has more confidence as a married woman that she doesn't need to fear men the way she may have feared them previously. It doesn't mean she wants to sleep with them. If it bothers you that much tell her that is does and you'd like her to stop. 

You know very little about woman so you really have no position to judge this poor woman based on all your misconceptions. And again I emplore you not to spread your misinformation as it could get some poor woman hurt.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> I told her the virgin should bleed the same day we went somewhere after hours we came back and we did it. It just didn't sounded right to me it's a kind of arrange marriege


Once again you have NO idea what to expect. The blood doesn't have to come out that very minute. The vagina is a long passageway and it can hold onto the blood for hours after the hymen breaks. Women can have medical procedures that cause bleeding and they don't see it for hours. Same thing has happened here. I teach my patients all the time that bleeding can happen much later in the day or even the next day.

So your marriage was arranged and you don't trust her yet. I get that, I really do. But on this you have zero evidence that she has betrayed your arrangement because everything you've said sounds completely normal for a woman having sex for the first time. 

The idea of proving your purity with a white cloth stained in blood is an old myth. Don't rely on old myths to bring you happiness. Be happy she was willing to let you have sex. I've worked with many woman in arranged marriages who are so afraid of sex they can't do it. Not all of course, some embrace it and fall in love with their husband. Your wife sounds like she could be one of these women and you'd be a fool to screw that up.

If you want a good sex life with your wife, I suggest you spend some time getting to know her. Stop looking towards myths to prove things are well. Take the time to find out what pleases her in the bedroom and think about her needs as well as yours. You will have a far better marriage for sure. Women who are happy in bed are much better lovers.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

I think his question is: is it possible that she might be lying that she was virgin? 
The answer is: it’s possible, nobody knows, apart from her. 
There’s a longer answer. But that’s basically the gist of it.
He put his fingers in: no blood. He put his penis in: no blood. But then there was some blood few days later. His question: could it be period or due to tearing of hymen? Nobody knows. It seems if the hymen was torn from his penis sufficiently to cause bleeding, there would be blood straight away, not after a few days. But it’s possible to lose virginity without bleeding (right?). Especially if it’s caused by a small penis..or if the hymen was already ruptured. Which again doesn’t mean she wasn’t a virgin...
Don’t know what else to suggest: try another penis, see how it compares? 
Or just stop dipping stuff in and out, especially if it isn’t giving her any pleasure.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Imperfections said:


> I think his question is: is it possible that she might be lying that she was virgin?
> The answer is: it’s possible, nobody knows, apart from her.
> There’s a longer answer. But that’s basically the gist of it.
> He put his fingers in: no blood. He put his penis in: no blood. But then there was some blood few days later. His question: could it be period or due to tearing of hymen? Nobody knows. It seems if the hymen was torn from his penis sufficiently to cause bleeding, there would be blood straight away, not after a few days. But it’s possible to lose virginity without bleeding (right?). Especially if it’s caused by a small penis..or if the hymen was already ruptured. Which again doesn’t mean she wasn’t a virgin...
> ...


I know what his question is and what his "evidence" is and as a women's health nurse I'm letting him know that his evidence is flimsy at best. Some women don't bleed at all their first time. Looking for blood or tightness as proof of virginity is relying on old wive's tales and myths and not facts. He has zero proof she was not a virgin and this poor women might be hurt due to his misconceptions about women's bodies and how they work. 

The whole idea of this makes me sick. For all we know he could be from a country that stones women to death based on this whole virginity thing. Best not to encourage his falsehoods.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Imperfections said:


> I think his question is: is it possible that she might be lying that she was virgin?
> The answer is: it’s possible, nobody knows, apart from her.
> There’s a longer answer. But that’s basically the gist of it.
> He put his fingers in: no blood. He put his penis in: no blood. But then there was some blood few days later. His question: could it be period or due to tearing of hymen? Nobody knows. It seems if the hymen was torn from his penis sufficiently to cause bleeding, there would be blood straight away, not after a few days. But it’s possible to lose virginity without bleeding (right?). Especially if it’s caused by a small penis..or if the hymen was already ruptured. Which again doesn’t mean she wasn’t a virgin...
> ...


The first blood was later soon after sex had happened. After that 2-3 days later she got her period. I do not believe the 1st was menstrual blood.


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> The first blood was later soon after sex had happened. After that 2-3 days later she got her period. I do not believe the 1st was menstrual blood.


It’s true it’s a bit ambiguous:

“But once I put my private part in after few days there was little blood.”

It depends where the comma is supposed to go (after “in” or after “days”). It’s scary to imagine a comma placement may decide this woman’s fate. That’s why I asked earlier what would happen if it turned out that she wasn’t a virgin. (Maybe it’s just a simple ‘refund’ type situation). I got no answer.
I’d like to imagine that we are allowed to reply by Western standards. Otherwise I don’t know what’s more helpful.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

I'm guessing his bride is a child and that is why he tried explaining to her beforehand that there would be blood.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Divinely Favored said:


> The first blood was later soon after sex had happened. After that 2-3 days later she got her period. I do not believe the 1st was menstrual blood.


Well there's your answer then. She bled after you had sex, bingo.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Blondilocks said:


> I'm guessing his bride is a child and that is why he tried explaining to her beforehand that there would be blood.


I hope not


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

Diana7 said:


> I hope not


She is in her 20s I just don't like someone lying to me that's all gotta be truthful from the start


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> She is in her 20s I just don't like someone lying to me that's all gotta be truthful from the start


Once again...you are relying on old myths and inaccurate information about women's bodies to prove that she has lied. Do you have any other proof other than your complete misinformation about how women's bodies work?


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

I think he is just looking for excuse so he doesn't have to treat her right.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

WandaJ said:


> I think he is just looking for excuse so he doesn't have to treat her right.


Makes me sick what some poor women in this world have to go through in life.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Fanman said:


> She is in her 20s I just don't like someone lying to me that's all gotta be truthful from the start





WandaJ said:


> I think he is just looking for excuse so he doesn't have to treat her right.


How did she lie?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> You believe that she was a Virgin? Or she did some sort of a trick like menstrual blood I don't know if that's possible?


Seriously, you are too hung up on this. She certainly could not make it happen on demand. If it were menstrual early, that then would be coincidence not deception. Is there some reason that you are not listen to those of us who are pointing out that what you keep assuming is the "proof of virginity" is nothing of the sort?


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> She is in her 20s I just don't like someone lying to me that's all gotta be truthful from the start


And we come back to the whole question of why are you not trusting her word?


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Fanman said:


> She is in her 20s I just don't like someone lying to me that's all gotta be truthful from the start


It is unlikely a woman in her 20s would bleed after having sex for the first time. Less that 40% of women report bleeding after their first time so a woman in her 20s most likely wouldn't and if she did it would be very little. It is very likely by her 20s her hymen has torn and mostly worn away on its own without sexual activity. 

Fact 1. There is NO way of knowing for sure if a woman is a virgin or not. Fact 2. You have ZERO reason to think she was lying to you. 

The first time I ever fingered a girl we were both 13. She didn't bleed. The first time I had sex the girl was also a virgin, she didn't bleed. 

If you're pestering her about this over and over there is a good chance she will never see you the way a normal man would want their wife to see him, it comes across as very ignorant and really very very insecure.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> And we come back to the whole question of why are you not trusting her word?


Because he really likes it when we comment on his situation.


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

Lance Mannion said:


> Because he really likes it when we comment on his situation.


Ding ding chicken wing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Fanman said:


> It matters to me.alot since it's in tradition. Its not that tight either...


Are you a virgin? If not why not since you have that expectation of your partner?
Oh ok, you are married. Women have different sizes of sexual organs, your test is hardly legitimate. Some women are very active in sports, climbing, doing rigourous house work etc. 
I note you are from Pakistan which explains alot. I hope you hold yourself to the same standards as you are holding your wife. Have you had premarital sex?
Sounds like you are jealous also. I suppose you will soon expect her to wear the niqab. I cannot deal with your sort at all.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Of course it matters. See, I can be just as judgmental as you. Your personal views are not determinative for everyone else.
> 
> Female virginity is something that is prized by a lot of men in the world.


Lance as a matter of interest, have you ever lived in Asia, Africa or even Europe?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> Buy your woman some very dark sunglasses. For your peace of mind. Better yet, welding glasses and a seeing-eye dog.


Naw, just make her wear the niqab, that will do the trick. She can look as long and hard as she likes, and you cannot see so it wont bother you.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Lance Mannion said:


> You know those stories about American tourists showing up in a 3rd world country or in Europe and complaining about how everything is backwards and not as good as back home? That's what you're going with your Western chauvinism being directed to this guy's culture. Remember what liberals indoctrinate us with "All cultures are equal."


Oh get over yourself Lance and your sanctimonious Bull***! *I am married to someone who is very close to this guys culture and I am Western. If the guy is offended by this forum then why would he ask for opinions from what is essentially a Western centric forum. If he wants advice related to his part of the world i.e. Mauritania, , then go find a forum there.
Oh I forgot these subjects would be taboo there. You cannot have it both ways. AND this has got nothing to do with liberals. If you want advice on your motor car you don't go to seek it on a gardening forum, makes sense right? People here give advice based on their experiences of the world, and not all are the same. I will not go on forum from the middle east seeking advice on my marriage, now why might that be? Surely people seeking advice would be cognizant of this fact?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Red Sonja said:


> If the TAM software has identified this persons location (flag icon) correctly he is from *Mauritania*, a country where the vast majority of women have experienced *Female Gender Mutilation*.
> 
> That fact certainly tells something about the value of women in their "culture". This thread is really about *horrific* *human* *rights* *violations* and, nothing to do with "virginity".
> 
> OP, has your wife had her genitals mutilated?


Thanks for highlighting I thought it was Pakistan as couldn't see the flag properly. Then that also explains alot.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

A Pakistani man's take on the hymen issue:Why Are Pakistani Men Obsessed With Virginity?


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## Imperfections (Nov 26, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> A Pakistani man's take on the hymen issue:Why Are Pakistani Men Obsessed With Virginity?


To be fair, this is not the only culture or religion obsessing about virginity. 
I doubt Virgin Mary was ever checked with the same kind of thoroughness that’s on display here...? but the fact that her name is always prefaced with ‘Virgin’ seems already slightly OCD to me. Why make a thing out of it? Would it have necessarily reflected negatively on her son? Who knows.

If Joseph ever had doubts and posted in CWI, everyone would be throwing a fit and calling him ‘gullible’ for not taking her to do a poly or placing VARs everywhere...
I know it’s difficult to help with issues like these without sounding judgemental...I can only hope that the fact that the OP is able to use the internet (as are many others), he will soon discover that the value of a woman does not really need to be determined by her ‘hymns’ and one can still have an amazing time together. (She could even show him a thing or two..)
I sing my hymn to that


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

aine said:


> Thanks for highlighting I thought it was Pakistan as couldn't see the flag properly. Then that also explains alot.


The flag is that of Pakistan.


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## Brian from Columbus (Dec 9, 2020)

LisaDiane said:


> My answer is YES, she was still a virgin.
> 
> My first husband touched inside me ALOT when I was still a virgin before we actually had sex, and I never bled from his fingers, and it never hurt when he put them inside me.
> When we finally had sex, it hurt alot at first, and there was some blood.
> ...


I gave my fiancé exclusively oral sex for most of our courtship. She had no prior sexual experience. She responded very favorably to my oral sex, amazing since I didn’t know what I was doing either! She came so easily and powerfully. Incredible nearly instant pleasure for her. She was in no rush for intercourse and neither was I, so oral pleasuring became our goto activity!


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

maquiscat said:


> Seriously, you are too hung up on this. She certainly could not make it happen on demand. If it were menstrual early, that then would be coincidence not deception. Is there some reason that you are not listen to those of us who are pointing out that what you keep assuming is the "proof of virginity" is nothing of the sort?


Well she said it to me let's have it so that's why I m thinking like this that it could be mentsrual blood


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## ConfusedUFODude (Oct 31, 2020)

Lance Mannion said:


> If male virginity was something that women prized, then Incels would be the Kings of the World.


In other words, you’d be a long.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> Well she said it to me let's have it so that's why I m thinking like this that it could be mentsrual blood


Again...I am a women’s health nurse...she was a virgin. That was not her period. Periods don’t work that way. Now please enjoy your new life.
All this aside, do you like your wife? Do you feel happy to be married to her? Please...just be happy with your life!!!


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> Again...I am a women’s health nurse...she was a virgin. That was not her period. Periods don’t work that way. Now please enjoy your new life.
> All this aside, do you like your wife? Do you feel happy to be married to her? Please...just be happy with your life!!!


It's kind of arrange. I was talking about menstrual blood could it be that?


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

LOL.


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## StillGoing (Dec 9, 2020)

Fanman said:


> It's kind of arrange. I was talking about menstrual blood could it be that?


No, it couldn't. Many people have told you in this thread. Please stop worrying and start loving your wife, or you both will regret it for the rest of your marriage.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Groundhog day.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> It's kind of arrange. I was talking about menstrual blood could it be that?


No it wasn’t menstrual blood. As I’ve said before, women’s periods don’t work that way. Once again, everything you’ve said makes me firmly believe she was a virgin until she was with you. It’s my job to know how women’s bodies work...SHE WAS A VIRGIN!!! Now let it go or you’re going to ruin yours and her life.


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## maquiscat (Aug 20, 2019)

Fanman said:


> It's kind of arrange. I was talking about menstrual blood could it be that?


How many times are you going to ask the question that has already been answered multiple times?


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## Elizabeth001 (May 18, 2015)

maquiscat said:


> How many times are you going to ask the question that has already been answered multiple times?


As many times as it takes to keep people responding.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## StillGoing (Dec 9, 2020)

Elizabeth001 said:


> As many times as it takes to keep people responding.


Might be time to put a lock on it then.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

how come this is still going?.....


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

WandaJ said:


> how come this is still going?.....


Because we need to know if she was a virgin or not and whether that was menstrual blood or not. 

Explaining it with with logical and factual information is not good enough.


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## Lance Mannion (Nov 24, 2020)

WandaJ said:


> how come this is still going?.....


If at first you don't succeed, try and try again. Maybe his bride wasn't a virgin on the wedding night, so he's trying and trying again and coming here to find out if she is a virgin on the subsequent nights. Could happen!


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

He keeps asking the question. Its like he does not beieve what everyone says and keeps asking hoping for the answer he wants.


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## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

Poor wife...


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> Again...I am a women’s health nurse...she was a virgin. That was not her period. Periods don’t work that way. Now please enjoy your new life.
> All this aside, do you like your wife? Do you feel happy to be married to her? Please...just be happy with your life!!!


The reason m asking is that she said let's do it out v was her timing and I told her that virgins bleed the first time so I was thinking whether she played me or not


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> The reason m asking is that she said let's do it out v was her timing and I told her that virgins bleed the first time so I was thinking whether she played me or not


For Gods sake...she didn’t play you!!!!! Women can’t make themselves bleed spontaneously and there is nothing she could have faked it with that would have looked like real blood. Stop it!!!!!!

I can’t imagine what life with such a distrusting man will be like for her.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

Fanman said:


> The reason m asking is that she said let's do it out v was her timing and I told her that virgins bleed the first time so I was thinking whether she played me or not


****.

With your level of idiocy on this, do her a favor and leave her now, quickly, and apologize for wasting her time on your way out.


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## Fanman (Nov 28, 2020)

notmyjamie said:


> For Gods sake...she didn’t play you!!!!! Women can’t make themselves bleed spontaneously and there is nothing she could have faked it with that would have looked like real blood. Stop it!!!!!!
> 
> I can’t imagine what life with such a distrusting man will be like for her.


She said to me let's have sex I chose her time and the blood came out it was a little bit brownish and then her periods started straight away on the same day she said she is bleeding she said to me before her periods would start at 15nth but we had it on 13nth and her periods started immediately.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

Given the fact that this discussion is resolved, it would now be a good idea to lock it.


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## joannacroc (Dec 17, 2014)

Blondilocks said:


> To be fair to the OP, he just didn't know what to expect or look for. He was told something about two fingers which I still don't know how that is supposed to prove anything (especially, given the variances in finger sizes). A missing hymen can be attributed to many, many activities or not having much of one to begin with. Bleeding may or may not occur.
> 
> What is curious is he didn't worry about the hymen/virgin until he noticed she was looking at other guys. I guess she is supposed to stare at the ground. Insecurities and jealousy bundled up into a 'cultural/tradition' issue.


This is why sex ed is important. I'm wondering, OP if you had conversations with female relatives about what "should" happen or just male? Because it seems as though a woman could have told you that there isn't necessarily blood when one loses one's virginity. And if a woman does bleed, it doesn't necessarily show on you during sex.


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## notmyjamie (Feb 5, 2019)

Fanman said:


> She said to me let's have sex I chose her time and the blood came out it was a little bit brownish and then her periods started straight away on the same day she said she is bleeding she said to me before her periods would start at 15nth but we had it on 13nth and her periods started immediately.


I’m done, you are clearly not smart enough to learn. Your wife was a virgin, the things you are worried about DO NOT MEAN SHE WASN'T A VIRGIN!!!!!!

You are either a total moron, a 14 year old boy having a laugh, or a complete jerk who can’t accept that he might be wrong about something. Enjoy what is sure to be a crappy marriage with this poor woman.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Fanman said:


> The reason m asking is that she said let's do it out v was her timing and I told her that virgins bleed the first time so I was thinking whether she played me or not


It's been explained to you over and over and over. Not all women bleed the first time they have sex. If a woman does bleed when she has sex, she has no control over it. At this point I feel very sorry for your wife. It must be horrible being married to a man who is obsessed like you are and not trusting of her. She did not play you. You need to learn to lover her and accept her for who she is, or you need to divorce her and let her live in peace.

You are obsessed with this to a point of it being very unhealthy. Are there mental health professionals where you live? Can you get an appointment with a psychiatrist or counselor to help you figure out why you are so obsessed with this?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I'm locking this thread.


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