# Husband isn't telling all...



## Sofa Sleeper

My husband is on this site and posts away about me and our marriage. He eats up all of the advice from all of you, however he has painted a skewed picture of reality. He's never told you all how he tells me he still loves me or how we still make love often and cry together or how he holds me close with such love for me even still. He also hasn't told you the truth about my loneliness in our marriage and how he consistently chose other things over me. 

I came to him MANY times over the years with tears in my eyes asking him if we could talk and pouring my heart out to him about the sadness, loneliness and disconnect I was feeling from him because he made me feel like I was not important to him. I would ask to be held and he would make every excuse why he couldn't or wouldn't...he was too tired, he was too hot, my hair was in his face, etc. I would ask to spend time with him and he would instead spend hours on the computer playing video games instead of investing in our marriage then he'd finally agree to watch something on Netflix with me only to fall asleep within the first 25-30 minutes because he'd spent all of his awake time playing video games. I gave him my all and he gave me what was left of him at the end of the day...crumbs. I needed my husband. I needed to feel valued by him and that I mattered to him and that I was his treasure. He was not complimentary and verrrrrry rarely said anything to me to boost my confidence. In fact, the last time he told me I was "beautiful" was in 2012. I remember it because it had been a long time since he'd said it before and when he finally said it, it meant so much to me. Funny how he told all of you on here that I was beautiful, but he could never tell me that. I did everything I could to try to grasp his attention and heart...he blocked it and has a wall up that I could never penetrate. I was (and still am) so much in love with him, but he made me feel like he hated me. I would try to talk to him about my busy day caring for our home and our kids and he would get visibly irritated by me (like I was a nuisance) and say, "Okay okay bottom line please Jesuuuuus". I felt like he didn't care about any part of me at all. Not my heart, not my life, and certainly not our marriage. If I was his soulmate like he always said I was, why did he not invest in our relationship? Why didnt he live in the moment with me? My days consisted of taking care of our precious babies, cleaning nonstop and me counting down the hours until my over- worked husband came home. He was my joy and my delight. The one I lived my life for. The one I loved no matter what...good moods, bad moods, terrible moods...I still loved him and drew near to him. Most days I felt like I was walking around on eggshells around him because he was so up and down for years (since taking an ADD medication that he will never admit altered his personality, but it DID) and even our children felt the same way. His responses to us were sharp and abrupt. If he was in a good mood, we held our breath hoping it would last. I "know" he loved me (and still does), but he has been so emotionally detached from me that it has caused me to feel like I am simply not enough for him. That I wasn't of any value to him except for to keep the house clean, his clothes washed and the occasional times of intimacy...which were only on his terms and when HE wanted it (which were few). I initiated it all the time and was shot down all the time too. 

That is no excuse for my affair. I own my mistakes 100%. I am living with the consequences of my mistakes every single day in the saddest way because he has left me and we are separated. My heart is shredded because I am losing the love of my life. I have hurt the one person I adored more than anyone or anything and I would do anything and everything and would move heaven and earth to be given a chance to make things right. I am doing everything I can to prove myself to him through my actions. This hurts so much. Then to read people on here that don't know the slightest thing about me or even him, just saying "divorce her" really hurts. Yes, I messed up miserably and I am the first to admit that, but what he's not telling you is how broken and remorseful I am over all of it or how I'm wanting so desperately to save our marriage and our sweet little family. How I want us both to get help individually and together. He shoots down "together" even now. Just breaks my heart. We have too much invested in each other and in our lives to throw in the towel. 

He is living like he's single now too and it's killing me. He never cared much about his appearance before, although he is a HOTTIE, but suddenly he is shaving his head and face often when he would look scruffy most days before, he's wearing new clothes and shoes, has shaved his chest and his "down there" region and as of yesterday, I noticed he has taken off his wedding ring even though he assured me he is living still as though he's married. I am lost and confused and want my husband back. I am not a bad person by any means and he knows that too. His ego is being stroked by all of you that make reconciliation sound weak. It takes a stronger more courageous man to forgive and choose to love and to save a marriage and a family that CAN BE SAVED. ?


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## xMadame

It is sad to hear your side of the story. Unfortunately on here many of the people are pro-divorce and will jump towards that without hearing the other side of the story.

Since your hubby is on here, I hope he reads your side of the story and sees how much you want to work on things and stops listening to the band wagon and starts to talk to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. It's just sad to me that people on here push divorce, but don't realize that behind that screen name is a real person with a real wife and a real family. I regret what I've done so much, but he will regret losing our marriage and our family without ever giving it a chance to recover by just checking out and walking away. He will regret this and it makes me hurt for HIM. I know the hurts he has carried from his past and I know this will be something else he carries forever. Things can be so much different if he would allow it to be. We could get professional help and come back from this stronger than we ever were with a love that is lasting. I'm more than willing to pay for everything...the polygraph to prove I have told him everything, marriage counseling, marriage boot camps, whatever it takes. I just want my husband back. I miss him every minute of every day. Our children miss him so much too. They pray every single night that daddy will forgive mommy and love her again and come home. These are real people, y'all. 

I love you, my Rocket.


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## MattMatt

@Sofa Sleeper Sorry you are in this situation, but thank you for coming here.

I guess your husband forgot to tell us all the above, huh? 

Whilst there is no excuse for an affair, there is also no excuse for treating your spouse and children like strangers who you barely tolerate, which is what your husband did to you and your children.

Your husband is also a cheater. In that he cheated you out of a loving spouse and your children out of a loving father. And that is all on him, not you.

However, there's also a possibility that your husband is also a cheater in the more usual sense of the world.

Distancing oneself from spouse and/or family can be a sign of an affair.

He needs work for his ADD, counselling might also help for the both of you and for your children, possibly, by way of family therapy.


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## SunCMars

Is his name "Legion"?

Because if it is, he is one of many.

Many betrayed husbands.

Husbands, whose wives sought love in another man's arms.

The problem with this post is this:

Who are you? 

Every betrayed man on TAM is going to hope that you are His wayward.

The wayward with the ever-so-soft skin, warm and full breasts. The wayward that he yearns to touch and to reclaim.

You are giving hope where none should be given......Oh, these tortured betrayed men.

I only hope that Ye be that Legion, sewn together by that wayward Mary Shelly.


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## arbitrator

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. It's just sad to me that people on here push divorce, but don't realize that behind that screen name is a real person with a real wife and a real family. I regret what I've done so much, but he will regret losing our marriage and our family without ever giving it a chance to recover by just checking out and walking away. He will regret this and it makes me hurt for HIM. I know the hurts he has carried from his past and I know this will be something else he carries forever. Things can be so much different if he would allow it to be. We could get professional help and come back from this stronger than we ever were with a love that is lasting. I'm more than willing to pay for everything...the polygraph to prove I have told him everything, marriage counseling, marriage boot camps, whatever it takes. I just want my husband back. I miss him every minute of every day. Our children miss him so much too. They pray every single night that daddy will forgive mommy and love her again and come home. These are real people, y'all.
> 
> I love you, my Rocket.


*Greatly in defense of my TAM cohorts, I would think that the overriding majority of us would be greatly in favor of divorce when infidelity has been carried out against one's spouse, no matter what the circumstances are!

Unless, of course, you can stand rigidly in the well and ardently defend the deceptive precepts of marital infidelity and lay change to a few of our minds! 

Without the presence of fidelity and implicit trust, why would one even want to entertain getting married?*


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## turnera

You guys cheated on your exes with each other, right? People here are saying you're a serial cheater. Is that true? He says you were withholding the truth. Is that true?

btw, I'm not trying to dis you; I'm trying to figure out the real truth between your version and his version.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I appreciate that. I do not believe he ever actually cheated on me though. He was absent and disconnected, yes, but a terrible husband? No. He loves to cook and would cook grandiose meals at least once a week...something he enjoyed doing. He worked a ton of hours a week...65+ hours. He was/is the boss though and can make his own schedule. 

Here's the thing, he loves me. I know that I know that. He just has trouble expressing it. Lately, he ignores me (because people here have encouraged that, as has his therapist which probably isn't getting the full picture either) and makes me feel even further rejected. I failed him with my affair and deception, I own that and I understand his hurt and I cry every single day because of the hurt I have caused him. He knows my heart more than anyone. He knows I'm remorseful and willing to change (I'm in therapy too) and be safe for him. I want to prove to him that he can be safe with me again. My heart is bleeding.....


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## StillSearching

@Sofa Sleeper All you can really do is work on yourself. Go to IC and take it seriously. Be the best wife you know to be. 
I've been through reconciliation twice only to have my wife have another affair. 
I'm sure your side of the story is very common for a WS, It's all sad and hurts everyone involved.
Keep praying. Keep going to IC. Let him know what he's missing by your actions.
Is he going to IC?


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## Sofa Sleeper

@stillsearching Thank you. I pray literally all day long for God to bring us back together whole and well. Yes, he's in therapy too, but from what he's posted on here, it's all about divorcing me and moving on away from me. Sad.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I think it's a good reminder that we only get one side here. One biased side. 

OP I hope you are able to find peace in whatever happens. Even if he leaves. Be strong for yourself and know that whatever happens you will survive.


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## StillSearching

After reading his post it looks like you had just a EA.
Did it ever get physical? I believe that PAs are harder to reconcile for a man in his mind, than an EA.
But my WS went straight to the bedroom. No EA to start. Well i guess any hidden chat is an EA so I guess she did.
I believe he can get past it as long as you are honest about the all the facts. 
Let him find out who he really is on his own. 
We all learn from suffering and you hit him hard. 
Be patient in your suffering.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. My affair turned physical in nature 2 times. I did not ever have actual sexual intercourse with him (I never even kissed the guy), but there was physical contact twice.


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## Sofa Sleeper

And btw, it is extremely hurtful to see that my husband posted my private confession to him in a PUBLIC forum for the whole world to see. That was meant for him only and he gave me his word that if I would come clean (which I truly did), we would reconcile. He did not keep his word and instead blasted my confession to everyone here to pick apart and dissect. My confession was and is completely true without any omissions or withheld information. I gave him the full extent of it all. I have begged him to let me take a polygraph to prove I'm not lying, but he refuses. Why? I have nothing to hide.


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## GusPolinski

Affair?

Weren't there affair*s*?


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## StillSearching

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. My affair turned physical in nature 2 times. I did not ever have actual sexual intercourse with him (I never even kissed the guy), but there was physical contact twice.


I can see why he has a problem with this.
I not saying you're lying. It's just very problematic.


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## GusPolinski

StillSearching said:


> I can see why he has a problem with this.


Not that what she's admitted to isn't "enough" for divorce, but almost no one would believe that there wasn't PIV.


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## GusPolinski

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> I think it's a good reminder that we only get one side here. One biased side.


And now we have a second biased side.


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## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> My husband is on this site and posts away about me and our marriage. He eats up all of the advice from all of you, however he has painted a skewed picture of reality. He's never told you all how he tells me he still loves me or how we still make love often and cry together or how he holds me close with such love for me even still. He also hasn't told you the truth about my loneliness in our marriage and how he consistently chose other things over me.
> 
> I came to him MANY times over the years with tears in my eyes asking him if we could talk and pouring my heart out to him about the sadness, loneliness and disconnect I was feeling from him because he made me feel like I was not important to him. I would ask to be held and he would make every excuse why he couldn't or wouldn't...he was too tired, he was too hot, my hair was in his face, etc. I would ask to spend time with him and he would instead spend hours on the computer playing video games instead of investing in our marriage then he'd finally agree to watch something on Netflix with me only to fall asleep within the first 25-30 minutes because he'd spent all of his awake time playing video games. I gave him my all and he gave me what was left of him at the end of the day...crumbs. I needed my husband. I needed to feel valued by him and that I mattered to him and that I was his treasure. He was not complimentary and verrrrrry rarely said anything to me to boost my confidence. In fact, the last time he told me I was "beautiful" was in 2012. I remember it because it had been a long time since he'd said it before and when he finally said it, it meant so much to me. Funny how he told all of you on here that I was beautiful, but he could never tell me that. I did everything I could to try to grasp his attention and heart...he blocked it and has a wall up that I could never penetrate. I was (and still am) so much in love with him, but he made me feel like he hated me. I would try to talk to him about my busy day caring for our home and our kids and he would get visibly irritated by me (like I was a nuisance) and say, "Okay okay bottom line please Jesuuuuus". I felt like he didn't care about any part of me at all. Not my heart, not my life, and certainly not our marriage. If I was his soulmate like he always said I was, why did he not invest in our relationship? Why didnt he live in the moment with me? My days consisted of taking care of our precious babies, cleaning nonstop and me counting down the hours until my over- worked husband came home. He was my joy and my delight. The one I lived my life for. The one I loved no matter what...good moods, bad moods, terrible moods...I still loved him and drew near to him. Most days I felt like I was walking around on eggshells around him because he was so up and down for years (since taking an ADD medication that he will never admit altered his personality, but it DID) and even our children felt the same way. His responses to us were sharp and abrupt. If he was in a good mood, we held our breath hoping it would last. I "know" he loved me (and still does), but he has been so emotionally detached from me that it has caused me to feel like I am simply not enough for him. That I wasn't of any value to him except for to keep the house clean, his clothes washed and the occasional times of intimacy...which were only on his terms and when HE wanted it (which were few). I initiated it all the time and was shot down all the time too.
> 
> That is no excuse for my affair. I own my mistakes 100%. I am living with the consequences of my mistakes every single day in the saddest way because he has left me and we are separated. My heart is shredded because I am losing the love of my life. I have hurt the one person I adored more than anyone or anything and I would do anything and everything and would move heaven and earth to be given a chance to make things right. I am doing everything I can to prove myself to him through my actions. This hurts so much. Then to read people on here that don't know the slightest thing about me or even him, just saying "divorce her" really hurts. Yes, I messed up miserably and I am the first to admit that, but what he's not telling you is how broken and remorseful I am over all of it or how I'm wanting so desperately to save our marriage and our sweet little family. How I want us both to get help individually and together. He shoots down "together" even now. Just breaks my heart. We have too much invested in each other and in our lives to throw in the towel.
> 
> He is living like he's single now too and it's killing me. He never cared much about his appearance before, although he is a HOTTIE, but suddenly he is shaving his head and face often when he would look scruffy most days before, he's wearing new clothes and shoes, has shaved his chest and his "down there" region and as of yesterday, I noticed he has taken off his wedding ring even though he assured me he is living still as though he's married. I am lost and confused and want my husband back. I am not a bad person by any means and he knows that too. His ego is being stroked by all of you that make reconciliation sound weak. It takes a stronger more courageous man to forgive and choose to love and to save a marriage and a family that CAN BE SAVED. ?



Of course all of the stories on here have two sides. However, what on earth made you think that considering the difficulties in your marriage relationship that having affairs would somehow make it less worse than it was, I just don't get it. Of course you are suffering now. Actions of this sort have consequences and you have to be able to accept what those consequences are.
Better you let your H be and work on yourself. Your H needs to work on himself too. If you ever get the gift of reconciliation, then bully for you but quite frankly your sob story doesn't move me, there is absolutely no excuse for cheating, I dont care what story you put up here.

Your H may have ADHD problems, etc but you have an even worse problem, i..e a character flaw, which is worse? If your H is not meeting your needs then leave, but do not cheat.
Furthermore, the man works 65 hours a week AND cooks! OMG you sound like a special snowflake.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Yes, there were 2. One EA, one PA. I'm not proud of that at all. You do not know the emptiness I was experiencing though during that time. My husband has a personality that is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde from day to day. You never know if you'll be greeted with a happy man that is sweet or a man that treats his wife and family like nuisances in his life. That is not an excuse by any means for what I did. I shouldn't have stooped to that and I take full responsibility for all of it. 

I have come clean with full disclosure. I have eliminated every form of contact including deleting social media sites, I've given my husband full access to my email account, iCloud account and anything else he needed. I have apologized and I am sick over the pain I've caused him and our family...even his family. I am in therapy to get well and I'm actively fighting for my marriage. I want nothing more. I love my husband so much. We have a once in a lifetime love.


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## Sofa Sleeper

You cannot judge until you've been there. Even my husband knows this. I am flawed, yes. I need help, yes. I am not shirking any of that off of myself by any means. I am hurting. He is hurting. We still have much to fight for though. You don't not know us. You do not know me or him. 

I am not asking for sympathy at all. I don't deserve that. I told him that I deserve all of this.  I accept the consequences of my actions. It is so painful. I'm now on meds to just cope through the days and nights. Something I've never had to do before. Ive lost 15 lbs because I cannot eat and I do not sleep. I'm a broken mess that is repentant and grieved deeply by what my choices have caused. I do love my husband more than anyone on the planet...he knows that too. He loves me as well. We can survive this and thrive if he would just allow it and be open to help for us. 

Clearly he and I spoke two different love languages. There is nothing that is not repairable though. With help, we can succeed together and save our marriage and our family form more destruction.


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## 3Xnocharm

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. It's just sad to me that people on here push divorce, but don't realize that behind that screen name is a real person with a real wife and a real family. I regret what I've done so much, but he will regret losing our marriage and our family without ever giving it a chance to recover by just checking out and walking away. He will regret this and it makes me hurt for HIM. I know the hurts he has carried from his past and I know this will be something else he carries forever. Things can be so much different if he would allow it to be. We could get professional help and come back from this stronger than we ever were with a love that is lasting. I'm more than willing to pay for everything...the polygraph to prove I have told him everything, marriage counseling, marriage boot camps, whatever it takes. I just want my husband back. I miss him every minute of every day. Our children miss him so much too. T*hey pray every single night that daddy will forgive mommy and love her again and come home.* These are real people, y'all.
> 
> I love you, my Rocket.


Ok my question here is WHY?? Why in the WORLD would you pray for this man to come back? He treated you like dirt! So many of the things you listed out in your OP I lived EXACTLY, I could have written what you wrote. I divorced. Best decision I ever made, and I have never had a moment of regret. Take this as a chance to make a new, happy life for yourself.


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## StillSearching

"I take full responsibility for all of it"
My husband this.... my husband that...
You are sending him mixed messages and they fit into a profile of a WS that's not completely ready to reconcile.
Keep praying and going to IC.

BTW we've ALL been there.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I can respect that and I can see how you'd say that. I truly do NOT blame him at all. I chose what I chose independent of him. Regardless of how I felt he should've treated me, I disrespected him. I lied to him. I broke his trust. I did not appreciate what we DID have and focused on what we DIDN'T have. I was so wrong. I disregarded him and betrayed his trust in me and for that I am so deeply sorry for. I cannot change my past, but I can choose to change my future and to do everything in my power to get healthy for me and our babies and to be the wife he deserves. I will not give up.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Oh and btw, I don't know how to respond to
each comment, but no my husband is not Legion.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

3Xnocharm said:


> Ok my question here is WHY?? Why in the WORLD would you pray for this man to come back? He treated you like dirt! So many of the things you listed out in your OP I lived EXACTLY, I could have written what you wrote. I divorced. Best decision I ever made, and I have never had a moment of regret. Take this as a chance to make a new, happy life for yourself.


This. 

Sometimes after an affair there can be this intense desire to fix it and bond again, on either side, but those feelings don't typically last and even if you R you'd need to intensely work on the overall issues in the marriage as well. 

This is not practical for a BS in many cases. Often they feel like working on their side of the problems somehow excuses what you did. Now it is all about your affair, you were the one in the wrong and you are the one having to fix it. What you did will always be "worse" and you'll more than likely never be "allowed" a grievance again. 

This becomes a mindset of many, even here, that you are to be punished the rest of your life and they get to sit on moral high ground no matter what their faults were to lead the marriage where it ended up.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. The intense desire to fix this is because BOTH of us know what we still have together. Both of us know if we divorced, we would continue to love and miss each other even apart. It may sound straight up cheesy, but we both believer we were made for each other. We should've married each other when we were younger before we ended up marrying others. Things would have been so very different. Can't change that though. We cannot change our pasts. We can choose to pick up the broken pieces and love each other through this until we are safely on the other side though. We can choose to fight for each other and for our family. What a difference thinking positively could do for him. Not rose colored glasses, but allowing himself to think about hope and redemption vs death and divorce. The pain will not stop there. It will increase. We can find healing individually and together and go on to live fulfilling lives with each other. We can hit the reset button and both choose better and be better for ourselves and each other. It's not uncommon for marriages that have been on the brink of death to get help and to be rescued and to go on to build a better marriage than they even had before. It takes work and time and I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Wish he was too.


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## 3Xnocharm

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I can respect that and I can see how you'd say that. I truly do NOT blame him at all. I chose what I chose independent of him. Regardless of how I felt he should've treated me, I disrespected him. I lied to him. I broke his trust. I did not appreciate what we DID have and focused on what we DIDN'T have. I was so wrong. I disregarded him and betrayed his trust in me and for that I am so deeply sorry for. I cannot change my past, but I can choose to change my future and to do everything in my power to get healthy for me and our babies and to be the wife he deserves. I will not give up.


Yes, all of this is true, and good on you for owning your mistakes. No amount of unhappiness excuses cheating. It sounds like cheating is your go-to solution and you seriously need to fix that. Or, stay out of relationships altogether if you cant stop cheating. 

I dont understand why you think you need or love this man so much, if he treated you the way you describe. Why go back into something you were so unhappy in? Why wish that for yourself and your kids?


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## Sofa Sleeper

That is exactly what I'm in therapy for. I recognize an unhealthy pattern/coping mechanism that is destructive. Yes, I was raped as a young girl and was punished for allowing the guy (much older than me) to come over. I was not offered help or counseling or anything to get well as a 13 year old girl. Instead, I was shamed by my parents...mainly my overbearing mom. My therapist and I are digging into all of this and attacking my root problems and plucking them out so that I never return to that person again and have the skills to not fall into those patterns again. I sought help on my own because I want to change for good. Coming from the ministry family I grew up in, we closeted everything. We could never appper broken or that we didn't have it all together. I learned that behavior and learned that "we do not get help" because what would people think? So, for me to be in therapy now of my own choosing is actually a big step for me in itself. Sadly, my sweet daddy needed help too but was too ashamed to seek it and ended his own life 5 years ago.

I am fighting for my marriage because no matter what, I still love my husband. You don't just stop loving someone when they hurt or disappoint you. I have loved him since I was 17 years old. We have a rich history of love together. We have had plenty of wonderful times together too. Prior to us living here, we lived in San Antonio and we were blissfully happy together. We were crazy about each other. When we moved here, he started working more hours which required him to be put on Adderal to focus. This medicine truly changed my sweet and tender hearted husband. I watched him change and it's been sad. He doesn't see it, but he once was a fun loving, happy guy that actually adored me and I knew it. We looked forward to spending time together. I still love HIM though. I know the real him and I love him so much. I cannot just give up on him and on us.


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## Roselyn

Who is your husband? I'm lost in this discussion.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Yes, there were 2. One EA, one PA. I'm not proud of that at all. You do not know the emptiness I was experiencing though during that time. My husband has a personality that is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde from day to day. You never know if you'll be greeted with a happy man that is sweet or a man that treats his wife and family like nuisances in his life. That is not an excuse by any means for what I did. I shouldn't have stooped to that and I take full responsibility for all of it.
> 
> I have come clean with full disclosure. I have eliminated every form of contact including deleting social media sites, I've given my husband full access to my email account, iCloud account and anything else he needed. I have apologized and I am sick over the pain I've caused him and our family...even his family. I am in therapy to get well and I'm actively fighting for my marriage. I want nothing more. I love my husband so much. We have a once in a lifetime love.


Sofa:

Believe it or not, your post is confirming much of what he said, and much of what I have inferred.

I am going to illustrate to you why (for now) I will continue to staunchly encourage your husband to divorce.

First, he wasn't treating you right. But (per your words) that is no excuse. Then why bring it up? When your house is on fire, you don't respond by pouring gasoline on it.

Second, you describe a "once in a lifetime love"...yet he treated you so poorly, and he was so difficult to live with. So, why do you want to reconcile? 

Third, have you gone to the church leadership to disclose that this was facilitated during preparation for worship? If not, why not? Speaking as as a former worship leader and current team member, you should be nowhere near the stage for at least a year (or longer) while you figure your stuff out.

Fourth, everything in your posts is "all about me". I see very little about how hurt he is over your affairs.

Bottom line, I see regret, not remorse.

I will tell you that I have had a good bit of correspondence with your husband, both on the forums and via PM. My stance on your marriage will not change, nor will my advice to him, until your actions merit such.

Stop minimizing. Stop blameshifting. Stop gaslighting. Stop lying. Stop trickle-truthing. Those things likely did more damage to your chance to reconcile than the oral sex.


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## StillSearching

Roselyn said:


> Who is your husband? I'm lost in this discussion.


Rocket


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## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Yes, there were 2. One EA, one PA. I'm not proud of that at all. You do not know the emptiness I was experiencing though during that time. My husband has a personality that is Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde from day to day. You never know if you'll be greeted with a happy man that is sweet or a man that treats his wife and family like nuisances in his life. That is not an excuse by any means for what I did. I shouldn't have stooped to that and I take full responsibility for all of it.
> 
> I have come clean with full disclosure. I have eliminated every form of contact including deleting social media sites, I've given my husband full access to my email account, iCloud account and anything else he needed. I have apologized and I am sick over the pain I've caused him and our family...even his family. I am in therapy to get well and I'm actively fighting for my marriage. I want nothing more. I love my husband so much. We have a once in a lifetime love.


Not to give you a hard time, but accepting your reality is the only way you can move forward. You say his treatment of you is no excuse, yet that is the first thing you open with, an excuse about your emptiness. Let me tell you, I have felt alone, neglected and empty for the last 8 years of my marriage but I don't want to run out and cheat although opportunities have presented themselves, so that is not an excuse.

Secondly, you now know what you are about to lose and suddenly you are going to a therapist to 'get well', if you knew you had a problem, why didn't you do it then and give the best to your marriage.
TBH a man working 65 hours a week for his family, probably doesn't have much energy to engage with his family. It is a lot of hours.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I respect your opinion. I do. I am not blaming him at all! I chose this. It was my choice and I failed miserably. I simply shared my side because the picture painted of me had been off. I realize anyone can jump online on a forum and be someone that they're really not and only say what they deem necessary. I've been there so I get it. I have blatantly expressed my deep remorse for hurting him. When I weep everyday, it is for HIM...because I have hurt the one person I loved more than anyone. I destroyed him and my actions have caused him to lose so much. It makes me physically sick even. I empathize with him and his deep pain. When we are together, I see the hurt in his beautiful blue eyes and it breaks me. I told him that the wages of sin is death and so anything he does to me short of death is still mercy. I cannot believe I have hurt this man. No matter what, he never deserved this. He trusted me and I shattered that. He believed in me and I abused that. I want to make amends and make it right before God and before my love. 

I understand many on here are wounded as well and are in a protective "attack" mode and I do understand that. However, not every situation is the same and sometimes there are people that are greatly remorseful, own their actions and want to make amends and restore a broken relationship and want to let God be the center of their marriage...something we never had (because of guilt from how our marriage started). Sometimes people do have a huge "come to themselves" moment and recognize the deep issues in their lives and seek help for it to not make the mistakes again....ever. This entire experience has shaken me. Made me wake up to reality and to what a mess I had become. My husband is a good man with a good heart. He is loyal and the love of my life. We are not passed the point of rescue. we have much still to fight for. More than even what's been expressed by either of us here. 

Btw, I was not involved in ministry or worship at the time of my affair. I was in a secular country western band.

I will fight for my husband and my marriage because I know we can make it through this. We can come out on the other side better together.


----------



## Roselyn

Sofa Sleeper, is your husband Rocket Skates 76? I just read his post. You were married before and had the same problem with meeting a man in a hotel. Had another affair with another man, so much younger than you. You have indeed a long way to go. You need to see a psychologist.


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## GusPolinski

Did you ever admit the PA to OM's wife?


----------



## farsidejunky

My mistake on the timing of the music involvement. You are still performing worship, no? You need to step down from that for now. And the church leadership needs to know why.

FTR, I am not one of the people who will always advocate for divorce in the instance of infidelity. I have never confirmed that my ex wife cheated on me, although all the signs were there. 

I say that so you know I am not painting a scarlet A and encouraging your husband to write you off because you cheated. I will often encourage reconciliation when the WS begins to display remorse instead of regret, and the BS honestly thinks they can handle carrying the marriage while the WS gets their crap together.

So...

Let's take some of this focus off of him and the marriage, and start talking about you. And I am going to assume (for now) that oral sex was the extent of the 2nd A.

How did you allow this to happen? Not why...but how?


----------



## SunCMars

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Oh and btw, I don't know how to respond to
> each comment, but no my husband is not Legion.



Thank God. Legion had a patchwork of problems. And most were visible. He did not lose his mind, though. He gained a lot of souls. 

I hope you can get past this...and your husband can get past this.

On reconciliation, good luck.

It will be Rockets call. Not ours. Not your's.


----------



## farsidejunky

Sofa:

I will not respond to a p.m. from a wayward spouse of the opposite sex.

This has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with sound boundaries.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I actually love that, Farside.

Here's what I messaged you. You can reply publicly.  

Thank you for your honesty. Yes, oral sex was the worst of what happened (2x's). I have told my husband everything and held back nothing. I wanted to be completely transparent with him when he asked for it. I knew the truth would set us free and help us heal and begin the repair and work necessary to heal our marriage. In fact, he gave me his word that if I came clean, he would forgive me and we would get help and work through this. I knew it was my only chance and so I let it al out. Some very embarrassingly graphic information that I'm so ashamed of, but I didn't want to keep a single thing from my husband any longer. He couldn't understand how it never progressed to more than oral, but it didn't. I hate this and it's embarrassing in itself, but the guy reached orgasm very quickly and then it was over. It was not a long, drawn out, sensual experience by any means. It was an act. Period. It was a rush for me of course because I "wowed" the guy. But I felt such sickening guilt immediately. This affair was not typical at all. It was more like an arrangement so to speak...he would give me the affirmation I so desperately sought from my husband and when he asked me for sexual favors, I complied because I didn't want the affirmation to stop. I liked the attention. I liked hearing I was beautiful and desirable....things my husband didn't make me feel. That's NOT an excuse for what I did. I own it all. I allowed myself and gave myself permission to interact with this guy. Then I lied and covered it up to protect my own tail at my husband's expense. I failed miserably. 

My husband has been distant with me for many many years. I cannot tell you how many nights I have silently cried myself to sleep because of his rejection towards me. I'm sure he didn't think it was a problem, but I did approach him with my insecurities and fears many times only for him to dismiss it or get angry that I didn't understand "he was just tired". I would say, I'm tired too...I've chased 4 kids all day long and scrubbed sticky spots off the floor all day long and washed mounds of laundry and changed diapers, etc, but I still long to be near you and to spend time with you. 

Anyway, I admit 100% to what I did do. It never went further than oral. I've begged my husband for a polygraph to prove to him I am not lying and cannot understand why he is opposed to it unless he's just afraid of being wrong? I don't know. 

My utmost desire is to get well and for our marriage to be restored. I have humbled myself before God and allowed Him to wreck me in this and to reveal and bring all of the darkness into light. NAME REDACTED and I truly love each other deeply. Giving up on our marriage and on our family does not seem right. He has grounds to divorce me, he does. However, he has a repentant and remorseful wife that is willing to do whatever it takes to make things right....willing to do the heavy lifting and willing to help him heal. FARSIDE, I will do anything. Please know that I truly love this man. All of him. Flaws and all. Quirks and analytical madness and all lol. He's mine and I adore him. I always have....just ask him, he will tell you. I've made mistakes but I have been a good wife to him and have loved him to the fullest everyday of our marriage...intentional, purposeful love.

Thanks for being his friend.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

OP- would you be happy if your marriage stayed together but went back to how it was before the affair? 
Because reconciliation from the affair is just step 1. There's still more work to do even if he agrees with the R in the first place. In his thread he didn't seem to agree that he was as neglecting as you feel he was, things in that area would be unlikely to change if he doesn't see it is/was a problem to begin with.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I actually love that, Farside.
> 
> Here's what I messaged you. You can reply publicly.
> 
> Thank you for your honesty. Yes, oral sex was the worst of what happened (2x's). I have told my husband everything and held back nothing. I wanted to be completely transparent with him when he asked for it. I knew the truth would set us free and help us heal and begin the repair and work necessary to heal our marriage. In fact, he gave me his word that if I came clean, he would forgive me and we would get help and work through this. I knew it was my only chance and so I let it al out. Some very embarrassingly graphic information that I'm so ashamed of, but I didn't want to keep a single thing from my husband any longer. He couldn't understand how it never progressed to more than oral, but it didn't. I hate this and it's embarrassing in itself, but the guy reached orgasm very quickly and then it was over. It was not a long, drawn out, sensual experience by any means. It was an act. Period. It was a rush for me of course because I "wowed" the guy. But I felt such sickening guilt immediately. This affair was not typical at all. It was more like an arrangement so to speak...he would give me the affirmation I so desperately sought from my husband and when he asked me for sexual favors, I complied because I didn't want the affirmation to stop. I liked the attention. I liked hearing I was beautiful and desirable....things my husband didn't make me feel. That's NOT an excuse for what I did. I own it all. I allowed myself and gave myself permission to interact with this guy. Then I lied and covered it up to protect my own tail at my husband's expense. I failed miserably.
> 
> My husband has been distant with me for many many years. I cannot tell you how many nights I have silently cried myself to sleep because of his rejection towards me. I'm sure he didn't think it was a problem, but I did approach him with my insecurities and fears many times only for him to dismiss it or get angry that I didn't understand "he was just tired". I would say, I'm tired too...I've chased 4 kids all day long and scrubbed sticky spots off the floor all day long and washed mounds of laundry and changed diapers, etc, but I still long to be near you and to spend time with you.
> 
> Anyway, I admit 100% to what I did do. It never went further than oral. I've begged my husband for a polygraph to prove to him I am not lying and cannot understand why he is opposed to it unless he's just afraid of being wrong? I don't know.
> 
> My utmost desire is to get well and for our marriage to be restored. I have humbled myself before God and allowed Him to wreck me in this and to reveal and bring all of the darkness into light. Burton and I truly love each other deeply. Giving up on our marriage and on our family does not seem right. He has grounds to divorce me, he does. However, he has a repentant and remorseful wife that is willing to do whatever it takes to make things right....willing to do the heavy lifting and willing to help him heal. FARSIDE, I will do anything. Please know that I truly love this man. All of him. Flaws and all. Quirks and analytical madness and all lol. He's mine and I adore him. I always have....just ask him, he will tell you. I've made mistakes but I have been a good wife to him and have loved him to the fullest everyday of our marriage...intentional, purposeful love.
> 
> Thanks for being his friend.


You're not owning or admitting to 100% of anything. Everything you did, you provide a reason, sandwiched between "but really, this is all my fault". Everything he did, you list as driving you to it, but really, "it's not his fault it's all mine." Then the sappy oh we're soul mates and I'm trying so hard and my family blah blah blah blah blah. Blech. 

Do you and he both a favor. Let it end. You can find what you need from someone, he can find what he needs from someone, and you both can get to focusing on taking care of your children and being excellent co-parents. You do not truly love this man, all of him. If you did, not only would there not have been any genitals of another man near you, the situation that makes such a thing possible couldn't have happened. We seek what we love, and what it appears you love right now is you and possibly the "family" as defined as you being with your kids.

I'm sorry of this sounds harsh, but everything you're writing here? Yeah, it's exactly the kinds of things my mother wrote to me when I caught her sleeping with another man one day. Some of it word for word. Including the sudden newfound faith and devotion. Including the "this is all my fault" followed by paragraphs for why it isn't. I've seen this hyper-contrition and all its forms. Unfortunately, she never found happiness, just a string of miserable relationships. Part of that is because she never learned to tell herself the truth. Learn to tell yourself the truth.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I have no defense for my actions. I chose this. My husband is deeply hurting and it's all because of me. I hate the pain he endures daily...the anger and the confusion...because of my selfishness. Why did I think my "needs" (for affirmation and acceptance) were more important than my marriage? I was so so wrong and so blatantly selfish. It's the twisted mind of an unfaithful...of me. Reality escaped me and I escaped into a false reality of flattery...trading safety and true love and a special bond for a rush, a temporary high, a moment....all the while knowing it's not real. I have come to terms in therapy with my "why's and how's". I am learning how to
heal from a myriad of shame from my childhood on and I'm learning new behaviors that are changing my low self esteem and the basis of my insecurities. The root of it all is being plucked out. I don't want to be this person. I want to be better.

I do not deserve another chance with my sweet Rocket, but I still will fight for him and for our marriage.


----------



## farsidejunky

@Affaircare


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

FamilyMan, I'm sorry, but you have me pegged wrong. It's ok though. I do love him. You cannot tell me I don't. I have owned up to my mistakes all the way. There are NO EXCUSES. I wronged him. I hurt him. I failed him. He trusted me and I slaughtered that. He is reeling in horrid pain because his soulmate broke his heart. I hate it!! I hate the part of me that allowed myself and gave myself permission to act out. 

If we could sit down with a counselor, my husband would begin to see that I take full responsibility for all of it. There is never a valid excuse for infidelity. I'm deeply sorry for hurting my baby. I want to be able to make it right. That's all. Finding "others" will not make it right....wherever you go, there you are. Why not fight for what we already have knowing each other's strengths and weaknesses? What harm or damage could come from us both truly trying?


----------



## GusPolinski

(There's no such thing as "soulmates".)


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

TBH- I see a lot of sappy words and language but not so much practical plans for how you would want to R, how to repair, how to avoid these situations in the future (I'll just ignore all my needs and love him forever isn't a plan) and repair the marriage as a whole, etc. 

Once the rush of wanting to R and being scared of losing him wears off, you have nothing to go on.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Not true. I've shared with my husband the safety precautions I am taking and will continue to take to protect our marriage. I have already deleted all social media accounts, have offered him to take my phone with him to work or wherever for however long he needs to, I've given him full access to my email and iCloud account, and have told him that I want to be held accountable to him in all things. We need to
get professional help. We need it to survive. I want to help him to begin to feel safe with me again...safety comes before trust and I'm fully aware of that. I do not want the same marriage we had...I want to build something sure and solid one day at a time. I want us to get back to a place where we enjoyed each other's company and looked forward to our time together. We have many great things to bring into our "new" marriage together and many things that need to drop at the door. We can do this. It is not easy, I know, but it's worth it. The work is so worth it.


----------



## StillSearching

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Not true. I've shared with my husband the safety precautions I am taking and will continue to take to protect our marriage. I have already deleted all social media accounts, have offered him to take my phone with him to work or wherever for however long he needs to, I've given him full access to my email and iCloud account, and have told him that I want to be held accountable to him in all things. We need to
> get professional help. We need it to survive. I want to help him to begin to feel safe with me again...safety comes before trust and I'm fully aware of that. I do not want the same marriage we had...I want to build something sure and solid one day at a time. I want us to get back to a place where we enjoyed each other's company and looked forward to our time together. We have many great things to bring into our "new" marriage together and many things that need to drop at the door. We can do this. It is not easy, I know, but it's worth it. The work is so worth it.


My wife exactly like you the first time I reconciled.
I had to work on fixing the marriage. I created an atmosphere that made her cheat. I fell for it.
8 years later she cheated again. 
Work on your own flaws and you'll have a chance. There are many and it's not easy to do.
The truth is he not believing you. 
The problem is not him. 
Never was.
You have to have that attitude.


----------



## thedope

Can someone post a link to his thread?


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## StillSearching

thedope said:


> Can someone post a link to his thread?


http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/385729-i-feel-sick-wifes-ea.html


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## Sofa Sleeper

@stillsearching That's what I'm doing. He has never been the problem...in fact I viewed him as my world not a problem. My own insecurities are the problem and I'm actively working on that. My therapist is really great and athough at times I hate what he says, it's blunt and honest and he is helping me. 

I want to return to my husband whole and well. A woman of integrity and honor that honors him and our marriage.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> @stillsearching That's what I'm doing. He has never been the problem...in fact I viewed him as my world not a problem. My own insecurities are the problem and I'm actively working on that. My therapist is really great and athough at times I hate what he says, it's blunt and honest and he is helping me.
> 
> I want to return to my husband while and well. A woman of integrity and honor that honors him and our marriage.


Which is why this thread is titled "I screwed up, how do I fix it?" followed by a few paragraphs of where you went wrong....

Oh, wait.


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## ButtPunch

Holy Blameshift Batman!


----------



## Magnesium

Sofa Sleeper said:


> @stillsearching That's what I'm doing. He has never been the problem...in fact I viewed him as my world not a problem. My own insecurities are the problem and I'm actively working on that. My therapist is really great and athough at times I hate what he says, it's blunt and honest and he is helping me.
> 
> I want to return to my husband whole and well. A woman of integrity and honor that honors him and our marriage.


You are all over the place. I think you really think you're sounding authentic and sincere here; but, you aren't. You are coming off really badly. Even if what you say is true about Rocket, your own posts have made it clear you have a long, long, long way to go before another man should ever involve himself with you.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

OK that isn't the thread title. But alright. 

Has anyone on here ever made mistakes they were sick over? Mistakes that hurt people they loved? People make mistakes. Good people make horrible choices that hurt others. I have a pattern of poor choices that stem from my own issues of shame as a young girl, low self esteem and feelings of not being enough (all rooted in childhood). I am not a bad person though. My husband knows I am not. I'm actually very loving, nurturing, thoughtful, kind, generous, patient, positive, encouraging and genuinely sweet. It's who I am. I have a hard time sticking up for myself, I'm terrified of confrontation and I let people walk all over me (not my husband, btw) because I don't have the confidence to take a stand. I have never believed I'm enough for my husband (in my own mind) and have tried to shake that for a long time. 

I'm not the only failure in the world and I'm also not a DOA case that is incapable of finding appropriate help and making positive, lasting changes. 

I do have a great support system. My very best friend speaks harshly to me often and keeps me in check. No one is just telling me what I want to hear. However, people from all over are praying that we find our way back to each other.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I understand the people saying blame shifting but at the same time, WS can't just pretend they were in a perfect marriage and rug sweep every problem that happened *before* the affair just because they had an affair. 

IF what she is saying is true then it's a problem that also needs fixing. It can't be ignored just because she had an affair. 

Now they have 2 problems to figure out instead of working on it when they just had the 1.

Ignoring the fact that the marriage was broken and needed fixing will lead them right back to the same place if they R. 

He isn't responsible for her affair. He is responsible for his part in the broken marriage beforehand. 

That doesn't excuse what she did but BS aren't saints that have 0 work to do on themselves or their own part of the marriage. 


Her husband has a different story of how things were before the affair. That's also a problem. He was either horribly neglecting despite her pleas or he wasn't


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

@rocket skates76 

Care to answer, baby? I was not imagining the distance.


----------



## farsidejunky

Speaking as a Moderator:

You can hold someone accountable without being disrespectful. Several posts have attempted to do the former without taking the latter into account, and have been deleted for that reason.

Any further derogatory terms or nasty posts will earn a time out.


----------



## ButtPunch

This story reminds me of the guy who cheats on his wife and then tells her its because
he doesn't get enough sex at home.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Not true. I've shared with my husband the safety precautions I am taking and will continue to take to protect our marriage. I have already deleted all social media accounts, have offered him to take my phone with him to work or wherever for however long he needs to, I've given him full access to my email and iCloud account, and have told him that I want to be held accountable to him in all things.


I also suggested to you that you put a GPS on your phone and in your car, that you let him know where you're going if you're deviating from routine, that you go to both sets of parents and admit what you did and ask for forgiveness, and to go ahead and schedule the polygraph. Have you started on any of that?


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

Your H wrote that you have a magnetic personality, perhaps he fears you have a need to be the center of attention and that that need makes you vulnerable to affairs.

My W has a similar appeal and people feel immediately comfortable with her, sometimes it's not her being forward with people but vice versa, all the same when it happens my memories of her affair gets triggered and I feel like i'm in a car going down a mountain road with no brakes. 

BTW all of us make MISTAKES but you called your affair a mistake, that word makes it sound like you are putting it into a category with spilling water and other trivial errors. 

There is also the question of what came first his withdraw from you or your affairs, sometimes an affair seemingly recovered from will manifest in the betrayed spouse as withdraw, which the wayward spouse will use to justify her next affair.

Tamat


----------



## ButtPunch

turnera said:


> I also suggested to you that you put a GPS on your phone and in your car, that you let him know where you're going if you're deviating from routine, that you go to both sets of parents and admit what you did and ask for forgiveness, and to go ahead and schedule the polygraph. Have you started on any of that?


This! Except let him pick the place. Make sure this happens so he can verify
you are telling the truth and how many affairs he's dealing with.


----------



## Red Sonja

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm actually very loving, nurturing, thoughtful, kind, generous, patient, positive, encouraging and genuinely sweet. It's who I am.


Really?! You are a person who lied, threatened and gas-lighted your husband into a spiral of depression where he thought he was losing his mind for well over a year. You could have prevented or stopped that spiral at any time but you _chose _not to, instead you watched him spiral and suffer.

That is the very definition of torturous emotional abuse. Ask yourself, did you do this for revenge for his “neglect”, did you do it because you thought you were entitled to the attention?

That behavior is neither loving, nurturing, thoughtful, kind, generous, patient, positive, encouraging, sweet nor the behavior of a soulmate. You have not even begun to face yourself and who you really are or, what you have done. Notice that I did not even mention your infidelity … yet.

You need serious therapy, perhaps years of it in order to become a safe partner for anyone. My advice to you is to leave your husband alone (let him heal) and get busy fixing yourself. You need to learn to find happiness within instead of seeking the empty attentions other men.

The only true victims in all this are your children.


----------



## farsidejunky

Red Sonja said:


> Really?! You are a person who lied, threatened and gas-lighted your husband into a spiral of depression where he thought he was losing his mind for well over a year. You could have prevented or stopped that spiral at any time but you _chose _not to, instead you watched him spiral and suffer.
> 
> That is the very definition of torturous emotional abuse. Ask yourself, did you do this for revenge for his “neglect”, did you do it because you thought you were entitled to the attention?
> 
> That behavior is neither loving, nurturing, thoughtful, kind, generous, patient, positive, encouraging, sweet nor the behavior of a soulmate. You have not even begun to face yourself and who you really are or, what you have done. Notice that I did not even mention your infidelity … yet.
> 
> You need serious therapy, perhaps years of it in order to become a safe partner for anyone. My advice to you is to leave your husband alone (let him heal) and get busy fixing yourself. You need to learn to find happiness within instead of seeking the empty attentions other men.
> 
> The only true victims in all this are your children.


I wish I could like this post twice.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I'll answer the last two comments here.

I am under the impression that he already tracks my every move and I'm perfectly fine with that. He has bugged my phone or my house or car or something too....I'm even ok with that. Find my iPhone is always on as well. I am committed to being an open book with him. I did go to his mom early on and ask for forgiveness. She said it was too soon. I actually went to his dad a week ago and humbly asked if we could talk and he was very stern with me, said NO and that he did NOT want to talk to me and shut the door in my face leaving me sobbing on the other side of the door. That was hard. In fact, I lost it for a good bit after that. 

Secondly, the emotional detachment truly set in when he began taking Adderal several years ago...before the affairs. He lost his vibrancy and his spunk for life. He became a shell of the man I'd loved. His mood swings became hard to handle and unpredictable. He lost his tender heart and became cold towards others...not just me either...our kids, his own family, etc. There was a marked change in him because of the meds. You can ask him too...I asked him several times to get off of it or to find something else. For a short time, he did. He was off of adderall and on a new medicine. He was truly like a different man. He was jovial once again, he was playful and fun with me and the kids, he was romantic and spontaneous and he hugged me and "flirted" with me even. I even told my friends how happy we were. Then he went back on adderall because he said the other medicine wasn't helping him at work.


----------



## Red Sonja

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Secondly, the emotional detachment truly set in when he began taking Adderal several years ago...before the affairs. He lost his vibrancy and his spunk for life. He became a shell of the man I'd loved. His mood swings became hard to handle and unpredictable. He lost his tender heart and became cold towards others...not just me either...our kids, his own family, etc. There was a marked change in him because of the meds. You can ask him too...I asked him several times to get off of it or to find something else. For a short time, he did. He was off of adderall and on a new medicine. He was truly like a different man. He was jovial once again, he was playful and fun with me and the kids, he was romantic and spontaneous and he hugged me and "flirted" with me even. I even told my friends how happy we were. Then he went back on adderall because he said the other medicine wasn't helping him at work.


Your husband is being called out on his own behavior on his thread. Please stop with the tattle tale routine.

This thread is for you and your own behavior. If your therapist is encouraging you to justify and/or comfort yourself by focusing on your husband's behavior instead of your own then he is doing you a disservice.

Change your focus.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

And you are absolutely right. I did do all of that. I watched him struggle and tried to play it off. I was protecting my own tail. I said that I was selfish. I was. That entire time I was living in a sick world that I had entered willingly. I became someone I wasn't. I behaved in ways I wouldn't have normally, I dressed completely different, I acted different. I was so caught up in a "country superstar" world that I lost sight of my real world...the one that mattered. I was once again...you guessed it....looking for acceptance in that world. Btw, I quit the band just a few days after discovery. 

I was so twisted and blinded by my own selfishness that I blew off my sweet husband's suffering. Many times I felt such urgency to come clean, but fear kept me from it. I was a coward. 

And yes they're mistakes. Transgressions. Iniquities. Sins. I am not downplaying anything by using the word mistake.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

And I was simply answering a question about his withdrawal from me...if it was before or after the affair.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

And another thing....I have admitted all of this to my bandmates that I had believing he was just going crazy. I took the fall for all of that. I defended him and set the record straight. 

I want to make amends for my choices and my actions. I will do anything. I mean that. 

I am the one who has failed.

I do love him and want our marriage to work. With help we can start again.


----------



## TAMAT

SS,

Perhaps read "surviving an affair" "fall in love stay in love" and "love busters" by Dr Willard Haley.

It saved my marriage back in 2008 to the extent that my wife would mention their website in her prayers of thanks.

Tamat


----------



## SunCMars

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'll answer the last two comments here.
> 
> I am under the impression that he already tracks my every move and I'm perfectly fine with that. He has bugged my phone or my house or car or something too....I'm even ok with that. Find my iPhone is always on as well. I am committed to being an open book with him. I did go to his mom early on and ask for forgiveness. She said it was too soon. I actually went to his dad a week ago and humbly asked if we could talk and he was very stern with me, said NO and that he did NOT want to talk to me and shut the door in my face leaving me sobbing on the other side of the door. That was hard. In fact, I lost it for a good bit after that.
> 
> Secondly, the emotional detachment truly set in when he began taking Adderal several years ago...before the affairs. He lost his vibrancy and his spunk for life. He became a shell of the man I'd loved. His mood swings became hard to handle and unpredictable. He lost his tender heart and became cold towards others...not just me either...our kids, his own family, etc. There was a marked change in him because of the meds. You can ask him too...I asked him several times to get off of it or to find something else. For a short time, he did. He was off of adderall and on a new medicine. He was truly like a different man. He was jovial once again, he was playful and fun with me and the kids, he was romantic and spontaneous and he hugged me and "flirted" with me even. I even told my friends how happy we were. Then he went back on adderall because he said the other medicine wasn't helping him at work.


My God, women!

You write well, you express well, you think well.

You are one smart lady. But you fail miserably at being humble. 

You would choke on Humble Pie. Introspection is a science for you. You are the best tap dancer I have ever seen.

You would wear me out. I would give up. I would simply say, shut up and take off all your clothes.

He took Adderall to cope with your rope-a-dope. So well did you box him in a corner with your splendid style of Oratory. 

You, the Empress would no longer wear clothes in my presence. 

Then:
You cannot hide behind silky speech, gossamer excuses. If your moral resolve were as strong as your slick tongue, you would own the world. 

Yep, naked as a Jay Bird...that is how I would keep you. Nowhere to hide your secret life, your sordid secret life. 

Oh, yeah....with the lights on bright.....I would check....inspect all those places that women hide......things and thoughts. 

Learn to bow your head [now and then] and talk less. 

You may be smart...God knows you are, but your man needs to put a leash on you. And you need to put a muzzle on all that comes out of your cute, smart mouth.

Just Sayin'


----------



## SunCMars

My last post was probably too harsh.

They usually are....

Keep up the good work Lady.

Try to win him back. 

I still like challenges..

Still.....separates the water from the Moonshine.

Oh, my...

My dusty, yet contiguous form is now flying over the Pacific Ocean. The Moon is over my head. Damn, that sallow Globe is smiling at me. 

SCM


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

How on earth is my description (which is on point) of the change that occurred once he began that medicine reflect my personal humility? i answered a question. 

I am no where near a perfect mate. Yikes. Not even close. There are two people that still love each other here that are both hurting and both need healing. I weep reading these responses from strangers that do not know either of us. I hurt for
him as well. He is hurting. He is confused. He is broken. He is still so sweet to me even in this. Yes, he has moments of anger where he lashes out and I deserve that. Other times, he is very sweet and holds me tenderly and allows us to mourn together. 

I am aware of his plans to continue to seek divorce at this time. That breaks my heart, but I deserve that. Hopefully in time, we can begin again though. Both of us with a fresh start. I can hang on to hope and I will. No matter how grim it looks, no matter how ugly responses get, no matter anything....I will hold on to hope. That is my choice.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

@Tamat
Thank you for the book suggestion. I just finished "Hope For the Separated, Wounded Marriages Can Be Healed" by Gary Chapman. 

My therapist wants me to next read "Captivating" by Stasi Eldredge and "Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Meyer. 

My therapist is fully onboard with helping me root out my issues and not by focusing on anything about my husband. I do share with him how my husband ignores me now and how he tells me we are going to meet to talk and then postpones it and how I crumble each time. He knows I long to talk to him and long to hear him and hear his heart. My therapist keeps reminding me that he has his own free will choice that is outside of my control. Even if it kills me and hurts me, it's his choice. Talk about humble pie.  I cannot make him take me back. I can only work on me and hope that the changes in my life will be fruit of the change in my heart and mind and that he will see it.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

If your husband is set on divorcing and that is what he really wants then IMO the nicest possible thing you can do is make it as easy a transition as possible. No guilt trips, no pleading, no fighting. Split the fair share of assets and custody if applicable and let him move on. 

Work on yourself alone for a while. The true test of change is when you do it with or without the other person. 

If your husband comes back someday then yay! If not, wish him well.


----------



## turnera

Red Sonja said:


> Really?! You are a person who lied, threatened and gas-lighted your husband into a spiral of depression where he thought he was losing his mind for well over a year. You could have prevented or stopped that spiral at any time but you _chose _not to, instead you watched him spiral and suffer.
> 
> That is the very definition of torturous emotional abuse. Ask yourself, did you do this for revenge for his “neglect”, did you do it because you thought you were entitled to the attention?


Or did you do it (not tell the truth) because YOUR benefit was ore important to you than HIS benefit. Which is, of course, the antithesis of love.

The sooner you get off this need to paint yourself in a better light, the sooner you can try to reach real recovery.


----------



## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I am under the impression that he already tracks my every move and I'm perfectly fine with that. He has bugged my phone or my house or car or something too....I'm *even* ok with that. Find my iPhone is always on as well. I am committed to being an open book with him.


Bravo on talking to his parents. Did you do it WITH him? That's what I said to do. Why? Because all the advice you're getting is things to do that will help HIM heal, not you or your relationship with his parents. He needs to SEE you groveling to his parents. And yours. So that HE can gauge whether you're just covering your ass or truly devastated.

And the quote above? Don't know if you're intentionally obtuse or you just don't understand how recovery works. The betrayed spouse has to SEE your ACTIONS. Your words mean NOTHING anymore. You're a liar. And a cheat. So the ONLY thing that can now help him is seeing you DO things. 

Do you see the difference between "I added GPS to my phone and car so you can always see where I am" and "I think he's tracking me?" Seriously, this may be the one most important thing you can learn. HE NEEDS TO SEE WHAT YOU DO. 

And to then say "I am *EVEN *ok with him doing this or that?" The epitome of a NOT-remorseful spouse who flat out doesn't get it. Like you're doing him some sort of favor. Frankly, seeing you say that pisses me off. Because you're trying SO hard to paint this woe-is-me picture and not showing a fraction of the things a truly remorseful spouse would do.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I didn't tell the truth because I was afraid. There's no more to it than that. Keeping secrets is scary. Letting them out...even scarier. I was a coward. I didn't want to hurt him and I knew it would. I wanted to keep it all hidden. Not good, I know, but honest. It wasn't a vindictive or spiteful move. I was a coward and scared of the consequences of hurting him. Sucks, but is true.


----------



## turnera

Mother Teresa's 15 Tips to Help You Become More Humble | ncregister.com


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Ok wow....I can take that. My words always get hung up on and often they come out different than what I'm trying to communicate. I meant to say is that I know he is tracking me and I don't mind because I am hiding absolutely nothing from him. I want him to feel safe with me and know I'm not up to funny business. I'm not sure I understand the GPS tracking device. I'm certainly not opposed to anything of that nature, I guess I don't understand how it works is what I'm saying. I would install it and the data would go to him, yes? How do I set that up. 

Also, no I went to his mom on my own early on. I wanted to apologize for hurting our whole family and for hurting their son. It was hard, but I felt compelled to do the right thing. If he had been there (he's staying there) I certainly would've talked to her with him present. 

I still would love to speak to them with him. I really want to. They are my family too and I love them as well.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

I hope Rocket's silence is the sound of him continuing to move forward with the split with conviction. It will be better for you both, based on what I read here and in his thread. You need time to work on you, and he needs time to work on him.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

He talks only when he wants to.  

Yes, we are each working on ourselves. Time will tell. I will prove to him that I am committed to him, to his recovery and healing and to my personal recovery and healing. 

Love can still win.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

OP - people who cheat are often not terribly patient people. They want what they want when they want it. They also tend to be a selfish bunch. 

Then you wanted the attention and affection of these men so you got it. 
Now you want your husband back. You want him to forgive you and see that you're sorry right now. 
Not give him time and space and just work on you in the meantime, you want him to accept that you are sorry. 

You want. But you don't seem to care what he wants and IMO once your marriage is back and you're both comfortable again you won't want him to keep bringing it up for 20 years down the road. You won't want to deal with his triggers 10 years later. You'll want him to drop it and move on because you're sorry. You're just trying to prove that you are sorry. 

R is excruciating for both people. For likely the rest of your lives. 

Think about it you can really deal with him still being angry about this in 10 or 20 years. Him never letting it go or ever being a 100% happy and loving marriage ever again. There will always be this hanging over both your heads. 

R is not for the impatient and selfish.


----------



## thedope

Let's all not lose sight of the fact sofa sleeper gave some guy a blowjob and would send him nude pics. The whole thread is her trying to justify it even if she says she isn't. I hope he leaves you sofasleeper, because your sort of an awful person.


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## thedope

Seriously what wife gives a guy a bj then shows up on a website her husband goes to try and cope with things and proceeds to complain about her husband.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Ok last post...
You don't not know either of us. Last time I'm saying it. You can judge all you want, but you do not know me or my heart. 

I am broken. I am hurting deeply for my sweetheart. I wanna make it all better. I wanna love him and wipe his tears away. I am hurting too. Nobody sets out to hurt people. Nobody wakes up one day and says, hey today I think I'll ruin my marriage. I never thought I'd do this to him. He was my special one. Still is. No need to say "how could he be...etc etc, you do not understand us. That's ok. I don't expect you to. He does believe me and sees me as remorseful. He sees me in person and has told me he believed me. He's been very gentle and kind to me when we are alone together. He still loves me and it shows. 

There's nothing wrong with believing for a miracle for us and for holding on to hope that in time we will find our way back to each other. 

Have a good night .


----------



## SunCMars

Sofa Sleeper said:


> How on earth is my description (which is on point) of the change that occurred once he began that medicine reflect my personal humility? i answered a question.
> 
> I am no where near a perfect mate. Yikes. Not even close. There are two people that still love each other here that are both hurting and both need healing. I weep reading these responses from strangers that do not know either of us. I hurt for
> him as well. He is hurting. He is confused. He is broken. He is still so sweet to me even in this. Yes, he has moments of anger where he lashes out and I deserve that. Other times, he is very sweet and holds me tenderly and allows us to mourn together.
> 
> I am aware of his plans to continue to seek divorce at this time. That breaks my heart, but I deserve that. Hopefully in time, we can begin again though. Both of us with a fresh start. I can hang on to hope and I will. No matter how grim it looks, no matter how ugly responses get, no matter anything....I will hold on to hope. That is my choice.


Yeah, I think you are my alter ego. My feminine side.
@EleGirl killed my sock puppet. 

I suggest you wear long slacks. Ones that cover your penny loafers. No sockeye salmon must show. I learned my lesson well, "You can't please everyone...so you must please yourself". Speak softly and in riddles. Keeps the hammer from striking your tail......your tale.

Just Sayin'


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## turnera

Aaaaand she proves she can't take it. She wants to show remorse...as long as she can retain her dignity and reputation. Cheaters don't have a reputation anymore. She still doesn't get that.


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## SunCMars

Quote: Sofa Sleeper



> I weep reading these responses from strangers that do not know either of us.


Do not weep.

He loves you as he loves HIMSELF.....believe me.

I could love you.... but not in this life.

I am adrift over the Pacific and fit for no one.


----------



## arbitrator

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I didn't tell the truth because I was afraid. There's no more to it than that. Keeping secrets is scary. Letting them out...even scarier. I was a coward. I didn't want to hurt him and I knew it would. I wanted to keep it all hidden. Not good, I know, but honest. It wasn't a vindictive or spiteful move. I was a coward and scared of the consequences of hurting him. Sucks, but is true.


*All cheaters are cowards and backstabbers ~ plain and simple! 

That's pretty much the context of their hallowed "cheaters mantra": To keep the affair as surreptitiously hidden as possible, and to never plan to tell anyone the first damned thing about its occurrence!

Now I'm wondering why that is?*


----------



## thedope

She tried to lessen the intensity of the affair by saying they never kissed. Are you joking, Y'all never kissed because you asked OM to and he wouldn't do it because he didn't want to kiss you. This of course is after you kissed OM's penis. This lady is a real piece of work.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper, 

I am speaking to you today as a person who has also committed adultery. I want you to know that I do know how you feel and where your head is, and I was alerted to your thread by @farsidejunky (thanks!). I hope I'm able to make a little sense to you, and maybe share some wisdom that may help you with this whole, gigantic situation. 

The first thing I want to address is the truth. As I read through your thread and his thread, I hear you saying a lot of self-deprecating words and belittling, undervaluing phrases. It sounds to me like you are trying to sound deeply sorrowful and regretful. I suspect in your heart you actually ARE sorry! But based on the way you're phrasing things and writing, I respect you enough to tell you the truth: I don't believe you. Here's why: go back and read all of your posts. Almost every one has this kind of format: "I ... I want ... I love ... I ... I ... I ..." and somewhere in the post in something that either says right out loud or implies "...I was wrong, but I did it because he wronged me first." Those exact words are not said, but the focus is on yourself and you...and in justifying what you did. 

So let's assume/pretend that every single thing you have said is exactly 100% true. @Rocket Skates76 really did take some medication and lost his interest/passion for life in general and you in particular, and he rejected you over and over, and when you came to him with your fears and insecurities, he was lethargic and made excuses. He starved you of attention (partially because he was working 65 hr/wk). I am going to assume that you are a Bible-believing Christian, and not someone born in the USA who is christian by default. LOL So I want you to show me the book and verse that says "If your husband ignores you and is absolutely silent and rejects you, that adultery is allowed."

LOL When you look at it that way, it's kind of ridiculous, isn't it? CLEARLY God expects us to honor our covenant commitments even when things aren't easy and it feels lonely. Look at Abigail in I Samuel 25. Her husband, Nabal, was rude, a jerk, left her alone, and stingy with his money and his gratitude, but did God say "Well, Abigail since you have an idiot for a husband, you can go commit adultery"? NO! She made a covenant to be Nabal's wife, and we know I Peter that the godly concept is to win our spouses over without a word through our conduct. YOU made a covenant commitment to @Rocket Skates76 and your job was to honor that commitment...so that would have looked like encouraging him to talk to his doctor to adjust that medication, or see if other medications could do the job without the side effect. It would have looked like talking to an older FEMALE mentor--maybe someone from church--who is not there to listen to you "vent" but rather to teach you how to be a better wife. It would have looked like praying for your husband and continuing your Christian walk, which means reading the Bible and studying what a godly wife looks like and becoming more like that woman! Instead, you chose to ditch all that and commit adultery...and not just once, but THREE TIMES (in your previous marriage, and twice in this marriage--MethMan and GuitarBoy)!!!

Now let's get into some nitty gritty. You wrote that you went to @Rocket Skates76 with your insecurities and fears. Are you aware that it is not his job to "make you feel secure" or to "make you feel less afraid"? You are insecure and you are afraid because of stuff INSIDE YOU and they have nothing to do with him. In fact, it sounds as if you have put your own personal responsibility on him--namely, it sounds like you're saying "It's his job to make me feel attractive and loved and brave." @Sofa Sleeper, that is not on him! That's on YOU! And I'd say about 99% of that is caused from YOU not feeling inside like you are truly VALUABLE...so you turn to others to feed your empty value hole. It's certainly been your "go to" way of dealing with things! If hubby #1 doesn't ____, turn to SoundMan for validation and ego boosts. If Rocket doesn't ____, turn to MethMan for the emotional fantasy and only sucking him off once...or twice...or a couple more times. If Rocket doesn't make you feel ____, turn to GuitarBoy for the thrill and zing of being interesting to someone. See what I mean? When you don't feel your own value, you turn to others and that is NOT where your value is! 

More nitty gritty: I know that YOU may "hope that your marriage doesn't end" because if you lose @Rocket Skates76 then your value is even lower and it will hurt you. But here's the truth--the REAL, LIVE, YOU-CANNOT-ESCAPE-THIS truth--when you made the choice to commit adultery, whether it's emotionally or physically, the marriage DIED. It's DEAD. Dead means "no longer alive" and so as much as you may wish to resurrect the corpse, you can't. Your actions killed it. If you truly understood that concept, you'd accept the fact that you took a knife and stabbed your marriage in the heart and watched it bleed out...and then cried because now the corpse can't hug you. If @Rocket Skates76 does choose to divorce, he is only making "legal" what your actions did morally...he is making the moral and legal match. And HE didn't do it. 

I know it hurts to think you did this to yourself, and I think there is a portion of your heart that realizes it was a mistake and not in your best interests, but it doesn't sound like you have fully accepted that adultery results in DEATH. Just like we are dead in our trespasses and sin and are not able to save ourselves, but we depend on the Savior who offers us grace--same here. Your marriage is DEAD from your adultery and not able to live again. If there were a chance in a million, it would be due to grace offered as the most loving gift imaginable, and from what I understand, @Rocket Skates76 already offered that gift once before with MethMan and now you've repaid his grace by taking up with GuitarBoy! I cannot in good conscience suggest to him that he offer that grace again at this time. 

So what's left? You said yourself that you are a smart, funny, intelligent, attractive, magnetic woman. You do have value because you are YOU, and frankly if you're a Christian, you are the dearly beloved daughter of the Most High God! But I don't honestly believe that you believe that within yourself. If I were to give you advice, I would say that for now the wisest thing you can do is to actually read your Bible, get to know a couple wise-woman who could be your mentors, learn how to align your mind with what is godly. It's going to feel "unnatural" at first, because our natural man is sinful! That's okay--habits don't feel natural until you've been doing them for a while. Take your focus OFF of "getting my marriage back the way it was" because that just isn't going to happen. For now, focus on fixing yourself and your HORRIBLE coping technique of turning to Other Men for value. Stay on the straight and narrow yourself, and let @Rocket Skates76 figure out for himself what HIS straight and narrow is. 

If you have any questions you can PM me, but I will strongly warn you about PMing with other men on this site. TAM Menfolk, clearly this little lady has an issue with getting into emotional affairs, so please set a boundary and don't get into it with her.


----------



## turnera

arbitrator said:


> *All cheaters are cowards and backstabbers ~ plain and simple! *


This I will disagree with. Two of the wisest, most amazing women I've ever met are former cheaters. They have dedicated their lives to reclaiming their dignity and helping others. People CAN change.


----------



## Affaircare

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I didn't tell the truth because I was afraid. There's no more to it than that. Keeping secrets is scary. Letting them out...even scarier. I was a coward. I didn't want to hurt him and I knew it would. I wanted to keep it all hidden. Not good, I know, but honest. It wasn't a vindictive or spiteful move. *I was a coward and scared of the consequences of hurting him.* Sucks, but is true.


Actually this quote right here is pretty revealing @Sofa Sleeper. Again, I don't speak with you with malice or wanting to hurt you more. I have been there and done what you've done. I believe I even told myself some of the same things you're writing here. But we (you and I) respect each other and I want you to dig deep and get to the real truth. It's like gangrene almost...if you leave even a little bit, it will grown and eventually cost a limb and then your life. So you have to keep digging until you get to some pink, healthy tissue. 

In real life, I sincerely doubt that your motivations for lying to your husband and cheating on him were "because you were afraid" and "hurting him" and here's why I doubt it: if you were thinking of him and NOT wanting to hurt him, then your actions would have been a) to find out what are the things that hurt him, and b) avoid those things, and c) set up protections to keep your own self from even accidentally doing those things! That's MOTIVATION! When someone really, REALLY wants to do something, they find a way to do it...even when it's not easy! 

I believe your real motivation--a deep, drive--was to get the thrill of someone being infatuated with you, and to avoid the cost of pursuing that thrill. In other words, I suspect you WERE afraid of how the consequences would hurt YOU. 

The cost of adultery is a DEAD marriage. You had a husband who would work hard and didn't rock the boat a lot verbally. He was "steady man" and paid the bills and put up with your family, etc. Then on the side you had the piece of additional cake--the man who made your adrenaline rush and who was delighted and intoxicated with YOU. You wanted to keep both. At some point you were in over your head and some part of you knew it was wrong, but if it was found out, your world would explode and not for the better. Sooooo...you tried to hide it. Humans do that--we're ungodly! 

Look, I'm not reading your mind. I've been there. And I know you feel bad and I'm not trying to make you feel worse! But what I am doing is to say "Get honest with yourself." You can't begin to heal if you can't be honest with yourself. It was sin, and you were tempted, and it was exciting, and you liked it. But you didn't do it because of X or Y or Z. You did it because you made the decision--or actually, a thousand tiny little decisions to cross the line, and then cross it again and again and again until ultimately you were a thousand miles from the line.


----------



## Satya

The "you don't know me/us" argument falls flat with me personally. So what? Why do we need to know you or your husband better? Will knowing the details of what a "good" person you are (and IMO, thas not a title you give yourself... That is BESTOWED upon you by others) somehow change what you did? No. Will it change opinion here to be in your favor? Maybe... That depends on posters. But then the motivation behind your posting becomes needing to change the opinions of strangers over taking that energy to look inward at yourself and live remorsefully. If you really understood remorse, you wouldn't care what people here think of you. You'd care what you think of you and use that as a basis for self improvement. You wouldn't look for validation from others in the nooks and crannies of your posts, you'd be owning what you did and seeking zero understanding for why you did what you did.... Because what we think and what we may or may not know means very little for the uncertain future of your marriage.


----------



## EllaSuaveterre

You poor dear. I really feel for you. There's so much pain and heartache in your posts. Please, the most important thing is to care for yourself, love yourself, and look after yourself.


----------



## aine

Affaircare, has said all (very eloquently) all that has to be said. OP needs to read and reread and reflect. Words are one thing but actions are another.


----------



## arobk

turnera said:


> This I will disagree with. Two of the wisest, most amazing women I've ever met are former cheaters. They have dedicated their lives to reclaiming their dignity and helping others. People CAN change.


Hey, maybe they were but have since changed for the better.


----------



## growing_weary

Sofa Sleeper said:


> @Tamat
> Thank you for the book suggestion. I just finished "Hope For the Separated, Wounded Marriages Can Be Healed" by Gary Chapman.
> 
> My therapist wants me to next read "Captivating" by Stasi Eldredge and "Battlefield of the Mind" by Joyce Meyer.
> 
> My therapist is fully onboard with helping me root out my issues and not by focusing on anything about my husband. I do share with him how my husband ignores me now and how he tells me we are going to meet to talk and then postpones it and how I crumble each time. He knows I long to talk to him and long to hear him and hear his heart. My therapist keeps reminding me that he has his own free will choice that is outside of my control. *Even if it kills me and hurts me, it's his choice.* Talk about humble pie.  I cannot make him take me back. I can only work on me and hope that the changes in my life will be fruit of the change in my heart and mind and that he will see it.


The bolded. This is not humility. This is thinking the situation you got yourself into will ruin you, and saying it is your husband's fault. It's thinking that he should consider your feelings after you ****ed up, over and above his healing and growth. Full stop. Use therapy to work on yourself first. Then, maybe, you unravel some stuff with an objective eye. 

My husband used some of the same patterns of reasoning to justify leaving me for his fantasy soul mate. Then to justify wanting to dump his thought processes, day to day and verbal diarrhea on me so _he_ could heal. You can rationalize anything if you're not seeing objectively.


----------



## arbitrator

turnera said:


> This I will disagree with. Two of the wisest, most amazing women I've ever met are former cheaters. They have dedicated their lives to reclaiming their dignity and helping others. People CAN change.


*No one will ever disagree with the precept that "a cheater can bring about drastic and effective change within themselves and perhaps others!" Far from it!

But at the moment of truth, when the cheater callously and deceptively chooses "to cross that line," nothing can be more exacting than that they are truly the "cowards and backstabbers" to which I originally referred!

From that lowly point, the burden of proof rests solely with them to show to the world the needed contrition to fully overcome the intent, as well as the carelessness, of their sordid and wanton actions!

Notwithstanding, the vast majority of them seem to choose to wallow in the squalor of their infidelity, rarely ever seeking forgiveness from any of those that their actions came to affront!*


----------



## StillSearching

She needs a world rocking event.
Sounds like shes going to get one.


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## Mrs. John Adams

Arbitrator... once again your words bring me to my knees and remind me of the horrid thing I have done. 

Thank you my friend for helping to keep me humble... and yet showing me how far I have come.

This dear wayward has not yet come to realize the devastation of her choice.... and I pray that she does.


----------



## manfromlamancha

Sofa Sleeper, you need to understand the following:


Had Rocket's post been about solving problems with his marriage, your comments might have been relevant. But it wasn't - it was about the affairs you had and the last one in particular. What I am saying is that while the two of you may have contributed to problems in the marriage, you and you alone are responsible for the affair which is what caused him to break up with you.

In this thread, you 100% sound like you are justifying the affair even if you say you are not. You need to focus on your problems - how you cope with marital issues - you run off and give blow jobs to younger attractive men. That is a fact. You have done this before (more than once). That is a fact. The problems with Rocket - that is your opinion. Rocket's problems with you - that is his opinion. 

Rocket is being given advice as a result of your affair - not the state of your marriage.

You need to stop talking about what was wrong with your marriage and focus on never using oral sex or anything like that with other men as a coping mechanism. And you have to demonstrate true remorse in actions. Not explaining how bad your marriage was and what led you to cheat. You say you own your affair on the one hand and then justify it on the other.

I hope you understand that in your mind, deep down, the affair(s) were justified!!!! You need to genuinely fix this. For yourself first and foremost.

Good luck with it.


----------



## turnera

arobk said:


> Hey, maybe they were but have since changed for the better.


That's exactly why I said that - they LEARNED, they GRIEVED the wreckage they wrought, and they CHANGED. AffairCare is one of those women. The other two are from another forum. But all of them are good people, wise beyond their years for the guilt they'll carry the rest of their lives, and determined to never ever cause another person pain. If God can forgive, so can I.

ETA: Oh, and I forgot Mrs. John Adams, she doesn't post much anymore. Add her to my list. So that's four women.


----------



## arbitrator

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Arbitrator... once again your words bring me to my knees and remind me of the horrid thing I have done.
> 
> Thank you my friend for helping to keep me humble... and yet showing me how far I have come.
> 
> This dear wayward has not yet come to realize the devastation of her choice.... and I pray that she does.


*Thanks, m'dear! 

And do rest assured that my tears flow with yours!*


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Y'all, I'm sorry. I'm going to be really real here and I know I'm about to get fully blasted, but it's ok.

I have taken full ownership in my affairs. I know I could've chosen differently, but I didn't. I failed. I broke my husband's heart and made him feel like he was losing his mind. I watched him suffer and I turned my selfish eye away from it. I have caused him to pay the price of something he doesn't deserve to pay. I brought him to this mess without his permission. I shared a part of me with that belonged to him. I took away our "special"...the special he believed in too when I broke my covenant with him. My actions have greatly affected him in so many ways. Ways that are unfair to him. He didn't asked for any of this. I dumped it on him. I unloaded my secrets and felt free for getting it all out, but the weight of it all was only transferred to my husband to bear. My actions have cost him a great deal. I didn't care about the cost at the time. In fact, I didn't even consider the cost. I only cared about me. My selfish wants. 

When I speak of our marriage issues prior to my indiscretions, it's because now that my filth is front and center, what had been hurting me for many years is now negated. Like it never happened...doesn't count...isn't valid. This is where I may get blasted: it still matters to me. I still hurt from it. I still feel like I was the only one fighting for a happy marriage and it still does hurt. I tried. Oh how I tried to capture that man's heart. I was madly in love with him. Those hurts are ignored now though. Not valid because of what we are now facing. But they're still valid to me. It's still a piece of our puzzle. It still really hurts.

Those hurts are not justications for my sins. They are separate from that. I never ever once thought, "oh I deserve this because he doesn't pay attention to me". I feel like that's what you guys think was my mindset and that's inaccurate. 

I liked the way the AP made me feel about myself. I craved that attention and fed off of it. I wasn't into HIM. I was into what he was dishing out. He could've been anybody. It wouldn't have mattered. I liked the feeling of being noticed and wanted. The secrecy behind it was exciting and terrifying all at once. A rush. I felt alive. I didn't feel like the mother of 7 kids scrubbing the smashed fruit snacks off of the floor. I felt young again and wanted. Desired. It was nice. Just being real. It was also WRONG. 

Now, I sit here living with the consequences of my actions. My husband also having to face unfair consequences of MY actions. 

Anyone on here that is caught up in an affair or is finding yourself tempted or leaning that way...STOP IT NOW. It's never worth it. It's the most horrendous mistake you'll ever make. It has shattered our lives. You will hurt those you love the most and they will pay for your mistakes in the most unfortunate ways. You will hate yourself. You will look in the mirror and see a person you despise. You will look in your wounded spouse's eyes and see the worst pain you've ever seen and know you caused it. You will not sleep at night. You will toss and turn and wallow around in the nightmare you created. You will experience the worst torment and inner turmoil. You will long for your spouse's touch more than you ever have before. You will have to tell your children that you are the cause of the marriage breakup. You will LIVE with this the rest of your life if you don't feel like ending it (those thoughts come...trust me). 

All I can do is what I've been doing. Loving our babies we made together, digging deep inside my soul for answers, going to therapy, learning to somehow love myself and seeking God. I don't want to be this person anymore. I hate her. I hate the chaos and destruction she causes. I want to eradicate that from my life forever...never to return. Never to hurt anyone again.

My hope is solely in my God right now. Things look hopeless, I know. I choose to hang on anyway. My husband knows I am not going anywhere. He knows I'm a fighter. He's seen it before. I do love him. I really do. I'm grieved for the hurt I have caused this precious man that I am married to. I pray one day, we will find our way back to each other. I know it's a long hard road.


----------



## MattMatt

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I actually love that, Farside.
> 
> Here's what I messaged you. You can reply publicly.
> 
> Thank you for your honesty. Yes, oral sex was the worst of what happened (2x's). I have told my husband everything and held back nothing. I wanted to be completely transparent with him when he asked for it. I knew the truth would set us free and help us heal and begin the repair and work necessary to heal our marriage. In fact, he gave me his word that if I came clean, he would forgive me and we would get help and work through this. I knew it was my only chance and so I let it al out. Some very embarrassingly graphic information that I'm so ashamed of, but I didn't want to keep a single thing from my husband any longer. He couldn't understand how it never progressed to more than oral, but it didn't. I hate this and it's embarrassing in itself, but the guy reached orgasm very quickly and then it was over. It was not a long, drawn out, sensual experience by any means. It was an act. Period. It was a rush for me of course because I "wowed" the guy. But I felt such sickening guilt immediately. *This affair was not typical at all. It was more like an arrangement so to speak...he would give me the affirmation I so desperately sought from my husband and when he asked me for sexual favors, I complied because I didn't want the affirmation to stop. *I liked the attention. I liked hearing I was beautiful and desirable....things my husband didn't make me feel. That's NOT an excuse for what I did. I own it all. I allowed myself and gave myself permission to interact with this guy. Then I lied and covered it up to protect my own tail at my husband's expense. I failed miserably.
> 
> My husband has been distant with me for many many years. I cannot tell you how many nights I have silently cried myself to sleep because of his rejection towards me. I'm sure he didn't think it was a problem, but I did approach him with my insecurities and fears many times only for him to dismiss it or get angry that I didn't understand "he was just tired". I would say, I'm tired too...I've chased 4 kids all day long and scrubbed sticky spots off the floor all day long and washed mounds of laundry and changed diapers, etc, but I still long to be near you and to spend time with you.
> 
> Anyway, I admit 100% to what I did do. It never went further than oral. I've begged my husband for a polygraph to prove to him I am not lying and cannot understand why he is opposed to it unless he's just afraid of being wrong? I don't know.
> 
> My utmost desire is to get well and for our marriage to be restored. I have humbled myself before God and allowed Him to wreck me in this and to reveal and bring all of the darkness into light. NAME REDACTED and I truly love each other deeply. Giving up on our marriage and on our family does not seem right. He has grounds to divorce me, he does. However, he has a repentant and remorseful wife that is willing to do whatever it takes to make things right....willing to do the heavy lifting and willing to help him heal. FARSIDE, I will do anything. Please know that I truly love this man. All of him. Flaws and all. Quirks and analytical madness and all lol. He's mine and I adore him. I always have....just ask him, he will tell you. I've made mistakes but I have been a good wife to him and have loved him to the fullest everyday of our marriage...intentional, purposeful love.
> 
> Thanks for being his friend.


On the contrary, your affair was typical of so many affairs.


----------



## StillSearching

Good luck. I hope Rocket finds happiness.
Even after all the advice here you stick to your narcissistic behavior.
Knowing it's wrong...
You think you grieve now? wait tell the papers show up.
There's a reason he's not posting in this thread.....think about it.


----------



## Mrs. John Adams

Sofa Sleeper said:


> *He knows I'm a fighter. He's seen it before. I do love him. I really do. I'm grieved for the hurt I have caused this precious man that I am married to. *


SS this statement says more than you realize...and I will try to explain why. He does not know you are a fighter...you cheated with HIM on your husband. He knows you are a cheater. He knows that you gave up on your first husband ...had an affair with him...left your husband and children...to be with him. This is what he KNOWS.

SO do you understand that your words mean absolutely NOTHING? You can sing from the roof tops all day long of your remorse and intent and love and devotion...but he knows your actions...he knows your past. 

And NOW...you have repeated this pattern...you have lied and cheated and manipulated...but THIS time you expect him to TRUST you and BELIEVE you...that you are different than you were when you did it to your first husband.

Do you understand this? Becasue in all of your comments...all of your arguements...you dont seem to realize that this is the foundation for your relationship.

Your foundation is built on infidelity...

Wrap your head around this. 

And now you want desperately for him to beleive you and trust you...when he has NOTHING to base that belief or trust on.

I am not a person who casts stones or judges harshly....but i am a person of honesty.

I beleive in hope...but this task you have set before you will take a lifetime...and that is if the stars align for you.

Your first order of business is to figure out how you have allowed yourself to become this person....you cant begin to help your husband until you help yourself.

I know you think that staying with you is what is best for him...but you have to allow him to make that decision for himself. You think you know what he is feeling...what he is thinking. You dont. It is impossible for you to know that at this point.

I have no doubt you love him and you want your marriage...although...there is a part of me that questions this.

You have painted a very unflattering picture of him as a husband...and unless he has drastically changed since your affair ended...i am not sure what makes you think that he will now be any different...and if you were so unhappy that you had an affair...what will keep you from becoming unhappy again?

Please do not miscontrue my remarks as stoning you...that is not my intent. My intent is to help you to THINK...to truly face the reality of this situation. You are so hellbent on SAVING him from the doom of living without you...that you cannot see how severe this situation truly is.

Do I think you and your husband can reconcile? I always have hope....but you cannot do it alone...and this may be more than he can bear. Reconciliation is his choice....his gift to you. He may choose not to give you this gift.


----------



## MattMatt

@Sofa Sleeper I have been in the position of both you and your husband.

We did, eventually, reconcile.

It wasn't easy.


----------



## arbitrator

Mrs. John Adams said:


> Arbitrator... once again your words bring me to my knees and remind me of the horrid thing I have done.
> 
> Thank you my friend for helping to keep me humble... and yet showing me how far I have come.
> 
> This dear wayward has not yet come to realize the devastation of her choice.... and I pray that she does.


*Mrs JA: Please continue your counsel with her for as long as she will permit you to.

You, yourself, can do 100 times more than any of the rest of us could ever hope to dream of! If anyone can save her, it is either you or somebody like you!*


----------



## Rocket Skates76

SS,

I know you think they have you mislabeled and do not truly understand, but do YOURSELF a favor and don't disregard the thread you started. 

There are decades worth of wisdom and experience found here.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Sofa Sleeper said:


> When I speak of our marriage issues prior to my indiscretions, it's because now that my filth is front and center, what had been hurting me for many years is now negated. Like it never happened...doesn't count...isn't valid. T*his is where I may get blasted: it still matters to me. I still hurt from it. I still feel like I was the only one fighting for a happy marriage and it still does hurt. I tried. Oh how I tried to capture that man's heart. I was madly in love with him. *Those hurts are ignored now though. Not valid because of what we are now facing. But they're still valid to me. It's still a piece of our puzzle. It still really hurts.


I am once again going back to the state of your marriage before your affair. You were extremely unhappy. Now suddenly you want that back. Why would you want to go back to this? Do you honestly think that things will be any better, especially now that you dropped a bomb on the marriage? I think you are just afraid to be on your own, Rocket is security to you, so you dont want to lose lifestyle you are accustomed to. I'm sure you are really hurting, but most of what you say here comes across as insincere. Why not just face that your marriage was miserable, you made the giant mistake of turning to other men rather than leaving, and let it end? Or do you require another man to be secured to run to in order to end a marriage? As someone else pointed out, your marriage was built on infidelity from the beginning. 

One of my closest friends was miserable in her marriage, and instead of opening her mouth and stating that she wanted out, she cheated. Now everyone knows, and she is in the same boat as you, as far as now everything that she dealt with and put up with from her husband now doesnt count to anybody. All that unhappiness she went through is null and void in they eyes of other people. Its really a shame, she could have had everyone's support if she had just chosen to end the marriage instead, because she really did deal with a lot of crap.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Because I loved him. I wanted to believe that every day was a new day...maybe the day we would turn a corner. My Rocket surely never wanted me to cheat, but I also know he would've never wanted me to give up on our marriage either (even before the affairs). I never wanted to give up...I still don't! 

"We were broke and didn't know it" <------you know what this is, "Rocket"  Its true that we just let the routine of life and jobs and kids and ruts take away our passion for life and for each other. We allowed distance to creep in. We put our marriage on auto pilot thinking it would be ok. We didn't communicate well. For instance, he has mentioned here that he thought I was smothering and clingy at times. He never ever mentioned that to me! Not once! We just let life happen and didn't put much effort into cultivating our marriage. We were both exhausted at the end of each day and running on fumes. There are many changes we both could've made, but we just didn't. We both assumed all was gonna be fine.

We can fix what was and is broken. Neither one of us wants to go back to the SAME marriage. We both want change. We both want to BE different. My husband was not perfect (he has already admitted that) and neither was I, but that doesn't mean we just say...ahh whatever, we are broken, we are both flawed, we are doomed, we are beyond repair. Game over. No way.

God can breathe life into a dead marriage. He can change hearts and lives. He can rescue, redeem, and restore all that has been lost. He can make all things new. We can through the fire of refinement and come out gold. 

That is where my trust is. In the God who made both my sweet Rocket and his Sofa Sleeper. God sees beyond the pain, beyond the sin, beyond the failures. He sees mended. He is a redemptive, merciful, loving God that is FOR marriage and family. 

https://youtu.be/-Otg-5p7qug


----------



## Roselyn

Sofa Sleeper said:


> We can fix what was and is broken. Neither one of us wants to go back to the SAME marriage. We both want change. We both want to BE different. My husband was not perfect (he has already admitted that) and neither was I, but that doesn't mean we just say...ahh whatever, we are broken, we are both flawed, we are doomed, we are beyond repair. Game over. No way.
> 
> God can breathe life into a dead marriage. He can change hearts and lives. He can rescue, redeem, and restore all that has been lost. He can make all things new. We can through the fire of refinement and come out gold.
> 
> That is where my trust is. In the God who made both my sweet Rocket and his Sofa Sleeper. God sees beyond the pain, beyond the sin, beyond the failures. He sees mended. He is a redemptive, merciful, loving God that is FOR marriage and family.
> 
> https://youtu.be/-Otg-5p7qug


You don't get it, SS! Good grief, using God as a lecture lectern is not going to help you. You have broken God's 10 commandments: "Thou shall not commit adultery". You committed adultery three times. You sound like a "Millenial", believing and rewriting history as they see it.


----------



## farsidejunky

SS, the longer you look outward rather than inward, the lower the chance your marriage will be saved.

Continue to do so at your own peril.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> God can breathe life into a dead marriage. He can change hearts and lives. He can rescue, redeem, and restore all that has been lost. He can make all things new. We can through the fire of refinement and come out gold.
> 
> That is where my trust is. In the God who made both my sweet Rocket and his Sofa Sleeper. God sees beyond the pain, beyond the sin, beyond the failures. He sees mended. He is a redemptive, merciful, loving God that is FOR marriage and family.


This is tripe. No matter what someone's belief on religion, everything as evidenced in this world points to people making the changes with their actions, flesh and bone, not with divine intervention interjecting and overcoming their will. What you've written here is a series of largely meaningless statements either deflecting blame or now, with religion deflecting the source of where the repair would come from.


----------



## Magnesium

This broad is actually beginning to make me sick and I now understand why. She sounds like my ex with all the insincere flowery dramatics and the overwhelming need for attention. It's gross. 

Rocket would be wise to cut this off and move on with his life. These types never change. They are manipulators and frauds to their core. Completely inauthentic human beings.


----------



## thedope

Actually I think rocket has her pegged. I believe he actually gets it. She came in here stating she wasn't trying to blame him for the affair but the first thing she did was complain about Rocket. I feel bad for Rockett. 

I also hope that sofasleeper is able to adjust her views on things. Because the way she is currently internalizing things is not conducive to her goals or easing Rockets suffering. I hope sofa sleeper thinks about that.


----------



## Shoyoself

Hi SS. I read this thread, and it had inspired me to register here.

I had concern reading your first post when you mentioned multiple times how your H "made you feel". Then, today, you post that your AP "made you feel". 

This would be a great place to start in both your counseling, and in your personal introspection. I know that it's a scary thought, but there is an amazing freedom in accepting that you alone are responsible for your own feelings. Other's actions can trigger an initial reaction, but your response is all on you. And chances are that that any feeling you have is not new. It's tied to your sense of self and your perspective of the world and your place in it, and it originated very early in your life. 

Nobody can "make" another person angry, shamed, happy, etc. While it can be upsetting to come to terms with that, ultimately it is incredibly freeing to take responsibility for your own feelings. Neither your H nor your AP can take that responsibility from you.


----------



## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Magnesium said:


> This broad is actually beginning to make me sick and I now understand why. She sounds like my ex with* all the insincere flowery dramatics and the overwhelming need for attention*. It's gross.
> 
> Rocket would be wise to cut this off and move on with his life. These types never change. They are manipulators and frauds to their core. Completely inauthentic human beings.


^ Flowery dramatics is 100% spot on. I have the same feeling reading it but couldn't quite place it. It's just a bunch of sappy words without meaning behind them. 

And I don't have the "All WS must die by fire" kind of feelings that many do on CWI but something... just irks me when I read it.


----------



## aine

Mrs. John Adams said:


> SS this statement says more than you realize...and I will try to explain why. He does not know you are a fighter...you cheated with HIM on your husband. He knows you are a cheater. He knows that you gave up on your first husband ...had an affair with him...left your husband and children...to be with him. This is what he KNOWS.
> 
> SO do you understand that your words mean absolutely NOTHING? You can sing from the roof tops all day long of your remorse and intent and love and devotion...but he knows your actions...he knows your past.
> 
> And NOW...you have repeated this pattern...you have lied and cheated and manipulated...but THIS time you expect him to TRUST you and BELIEVE you...that you are different than you were when you did it to your first husband.
> 
> Do you understand this? Becasue in all of your comments...all of your arguements...you dont seem to realize that this is the foundation for your relationship.
> 
> Your foundation is built on infidelity...
> 
> Wrap your head around this.
> 
> And now you want desperately for him to beleive you and trust you...when he has NOTHING to base that belief or trust on.
> 
> I am not a person who casts stones or judges harshly....but i am a person of honesty.
> 
> I beleive in hope...but this task you have set before you will take a lifetime...and that is if the stars align for you.
> 
> Your first order of business is to figure out how you have allowed yourself to become this person....you cant begin to help your husband until you help yourself.
> 
> I know you think that staying with you is what is best for him...but you have to allow him to make that decision for himself. You think you know what he is feeling...what he is thinking. You dont. It is impossible for you to know that at this point.
> 
> I have no doubt you love him and you want your marriage...although...there is a part of me that questions this.
> 
> You have painted a very unflattering picture of him as a husband...and unless he has drastically changed since your affair ended...i am not sure what makes you think that he will now be any different...and if you were so unhappy that you had an affair...what will keep you from becoming unhappy again?
> 
> Please do not miscontrue my remarks as stoning you...that is not my intent. My intent is to help you to THINK...to truly face the reality of this situation. You are so hellbent on SAVING him from the doom of living without you...that you cannot see how severe this situation truly is.
> Do I think you and your husband can reconcile? I always have hope....but you cannot do it alone...and this may be more than he can bear. Reconciliation is his choice....his gift to you. He may choose not to give you this gift.


This is what I was trying to say all along, one reaps what they sow, BUT he also left his first wife to have an affair with the OP so they are both reaping what they sowed. As I said, Christians ought to know the principle of sowing and reaping and 'to do unto others as they would have them do unto you', there is wisdom in those words of Jesus. 
Why do so many so called followers of Jesus ignore them at their peril and then wonder why their world falls apart when they choose to ignore them. God is a loving forgiving God but He allows us to face consequences of our choices. Both need to separate and work on themselves and see how they can be better people who walk in the centre of God's will for their lives. God may not want to save their marriage.

OK, off the pulpit now.


----------



## Mrs. John Adams

I agree with you .. he too betrayed his first wife

But so far as we know he has been faithful to ss 

One time I made the statement that karma is hell and a very wise poster corrected me and explained how kharma really works so I don't say that anymore. 

Let's just say sometimes what goes around comes around... I am speaking for myself
I learned the hard way 

And my fear is ss will too. I hope I am wrong because I don't want anyone to suffer.

Ss hurts... I know she does... she doesn't "get it" but she still hurts.

If she would listen ... really listen... she will hear the truth about her situation 

But she is not in listening mode yet... sometimes it takes awhile to be still and listen instead of fighting back before you know who the enemy is.

She thinks tam members are her enemy... so did I .. but I came to understand because I started LISTENING...

She hurts so she's fighting back

Ss... take a deep breath and pray that the god you believe in will give you ears to listen and a heart that responds to what you hear


----------



## farsidejunky

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I agree with you .. he too betrayed his first wife
> 
> But so far as we know he has been faithful to ss
> 
> One time I made the statement that karma is hell and a very wise poster corrected me and explained how kharma really works so I don't say that anymore.
> 
> Let's just say sometimes what goes around comes around... I am speaking for myself
> I learned the hard way
> 
> And my fear is ss will too. I hope I am wrong because I don't want anyone to suffer.
> 
> Ss hurts... I know she does... she doesn't "get it" but she still hurts.
> 
> If she would listen ... really listen... she will hear the truth about her situation
> 
> But she is not in listening mode yet... sometimes it takes awhile to be still and listen instead of fighting back before you know who the enemy is.
> 
> She thinks tam members are her enemy... so did I .. but I came to understand because I started LISTENING...
> 
> She hurts so she's fighting back
> 
> Ss... take a deep breath and pray that the god you believe in will give you ears to listen and a heart that responds to what you hear


QFT.


----------



## arbitrator

turnera said:


> That's exactly why I said that - they LEARNED, they GRIEVED the wreckage they wrought, and they CHANGED. AffairCare is one of those women. The other two are from another forum. But all of them are good people, wise beyond their years for the guilt they'll carry the rest of their lives, and determined to never ever cause another person pain. If God can forgive, so can I.
> 
> *ETA: Oh, and I forgot Mrs. John Adams, she doesn't post much anymore. Add her to my list. So that's four women.*


*But in my estimation, that's four too few!

What about the rest of them? Don't think for a solitary moment that I wouldn't want to see my RSXW as No. 5. ~ but who in the hell am I kidding?*


----------



## MattMatt

If you do not want to be cheated on, don't have an affair and then marry the person who you helped break their marriage vows.

And if you do, you get to suck it up and make the best of the situation you find yourself in, should they subsequently cheat on you.

Yes. Been there, done that, so I do have a horse in this race. So to speak.


----------



## aine

Mrs. John Adams said:


> I agree with you .. he too betrayed his first wife
> 
> But so far as we know he has been faithful to ss
> 
> One time I made the statement that karma is hell and a very wise poster corrected me and explained how kharma really works so I don't say that anymore.
> 
> Let's just say sometimes what goes around comes around... I am speaking for myself
> I learned the hard way
> 
> And my fear is ss will too. I hope I am wrong because I don't want anyone to suffer.
> 
> Ss hurts... I know she does... she doesn't "get it" but she still hurts.
> 
> If she would listen ... really listen... she will hear the truth about her situation
> 
> But she is not in listening mode yet... sometimes it takes awhile to be still and listen instead of fighting back before you know who the enemy is.
> 
> She thinks tam members are her enemy... so did I .. but I came to understand because I started LISTENING...
> 
> She hurts so she's fighting back
> 
> Ss... take a deep breath and pray that the god you believe in will give you ears to listen and a heart that responds to what you hear


I am not a bible thumper but the wisdom from JC is there for our good not to constrain or put a damper on our fun. The short term thrills are just a facade, empty and worthless, hence the problem.


----------



## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Because I loved him. I wanted to believe that every day was a new day...maybe the day we would turn a corner. My Rocket surely never wanted me to cheat, but I also know he would've never wanted me to give up on our marriage either (even before the affairs). I never wanted to give up...I still don't!
> 
> "We were broke and didn't know it" <------you know what this is, "Rocket"  Its true that we just let the routine of life and jobs and kids and ruts take away our passion for life and for each other. We allowed distance to creep in. We put our marriage on auto pilot thinking it would be ok. We didn't communicate well. For instance, he has mentioned here that he thought I was smothering and clingy at times. He never ever mentioned that to me! Not once! We just let life happen and didn't put much effort into cultivating our marriage. We were both exhausted at the end of each day and running on fumes. There are many changes we both could've made, but we just didn't. We both assumed all was gonna be fine.
> 
> We can fix what was and is broken. Neither one of us wants to go back to the SAME marriage. We both want change. We both want to BE different. My husband was not perfect (he has already admitted that) and neither was I, but that doesn't mean we just say...ahh whatever, we are broken, we are both flawed, we are doomed, we are beyond repair. Game over. No way.
> 
> God can breathe life into a dead marriage. He can change hearts and lives. He can rescue, redeem, and restore all that has been lost. He can make all things new. We can through the fire of refinement and come out gold.
> 
> That is where my trust is. In the God who made both my sweet Rocket and his Sofa Sleeper. God sees beyond the pain, beyond the sin, beyond the failures. He sees mended. He is a redemptive, merciful, loving God that is FOR marriage and family.
> 
> https://youtu.be/-Otg-5p7qug



SS, you have to face the reality of what you have done. To acknowledge YOUR sin, not your H's weaknesses, recognise that you deserve nothing from him. You also have to remember that it is not God's job to fix your marriage or take away your pain. His desire is not to save your marriage, his desire is to save your soul which may well mean you losing your marriage. God can change hearts and restore lives but you my dear have to be first of all brought to a place of nothingness and brokenness and you are far from it. God is not a happiness dispensing machine to fix what you have broken. That place of brokenness and nothingness could be the loss of your marriage, you have committed adultery more than once, God has let you have your way, do not presume on a God who does not expect you to suffer the consequences. In his mercy he may well let you go through the depths so that you will be redeemed from the pit of your actions. 

It is good your trust is in Him but do not presume to know God's ways, he is for family and marriage true, but he is for your soul first.


----------



## TAMAT

Mrs. John Adams said:


> If she would listen ... really listen... she will hear the truth about her situation
> 
> But she is not in listening mode yet... sometimes it takes awhile to be still and listen instead of fighting back before you know who the enemy is.
> 
> She thinks tam members are her enemy... so did I .. but I came to understand because I started LISTENING...
> 
> She hurts so she's fighting back


Yea, I sometimes don't get it people come here because their approach is not working, they have run out of options, everything they try makes things worse and yet they feel attacked. One thing they do not see is that what's valuable here is the wide range of perspectives and experience they get for FREE. 

Just as you shouldn't base your belief in some complex topic on one experiment, neither should we put too much emphasis on just what one poster says. There is wisdom as well as folly in crowds.

Another thing they get here for free is indirect marriage counseling and individual counseling, the people who post her pay good money for it and then they pass along the gems.

BTW, Thanks to everyone who contributes.

Tamat


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## LosingHim

I am a wayward and I hope just for the purpose of this post, people will let me post as an actual wayward and not comment on my full situation as I don't want to take anything away from what I'm going to say. 

I'm reading your words Sofa, but I'm not feeling anything. 9 pages of posts and I feel like I'm reading a bad harlequin romance novel. The fact that you're so caught up in the romance of things actually kind of makes me question your sincerity.

Reconciliation is not romance. Reconciliation is not "oh baby I love you so much you're my soulmate I can't live without you!" R is dirty, painful. R is constant triggers that your husband will deal with for YEARS. R is on some level, yes, your husband deeming you worthy of a second chance. However, it comes with consequences. We can't watch tv shows with infidelity or we'll both be silent the rest of the night. I can't play a board game with my kids and jokingly say "you cheated!" Because saying the word "cheat" in front of my husband scares me that it'll bring up past hurts for him. When I crave his touch, his kiss, sex with him, I still feel the distance. And I came clean two years ago. I had to tell him the other day he hasn't kissed me before, during or after sex for 8 months. Every time we have sex, he doesn't kiss me and I'm reminded that I caused that. Every time we have sex I'm on the verge of tears because *I* did that. When he goes places and doesn't invite me, I suck it up because he's told me he doesn't want me around his friends (my AP was his best friend). I walk on eggshells when friends are around because I want so badly for him to know he can trust me. He hasn't worn his wedding ring in 10 months. I see it every day in my jewelry box. I could go on. And on. And on. And I deserve every bit of it.

There are many people here who would tell you that it's time I forgive myself. But here I sit 4 years from the act and almost 2 from disclosure and I still have days where I wonder if I'll die from suicide because I really don't know if I'll always be able to live with the pain, the guilt, the shame and embarrassment. 

I came here much like you. Sorry I did what I did but not understanding the full implications. I wanted our fairy tale. I wanted our marriage to "be stronger than ever". Which is a load of crap by the way. There's not a day that goes by I don't think about what I did. There's not a day that goes by I can't see it on his face. Yes, he loves me. He finally says it again. But it's not the same love. And it never will be. There are times he feels anger and hatred towards me. There are times he fantasizes a life without me. There are times he leaves just so he doesn't have to see me.

I gave up 99% of my friends. I don't go to Girls Night, except the rare occasion. I work, I clean the house, I run the kids, I go to bed. I am vigilant that I am where I say I'll be, come home when I say I will. 

I had many of the same complaints as you. Your husband hasn't said you're beautiful since 2012? Mine NEVER has. What do you think the chances are of him saying it now? My husband has many of the same qualities, distant, not interested, too busy, too tired, it just wasn't him. So I cheated and blamed him too.

And then I realized, that IS just him. And I chose to be with him. I could've left a million times over. But no, I needed attention, I had soft boundaries, I wanted people to like me, I was damaged from rape and physical and mental abuse from my ex husband and I sought out a way to soothe myself while sh*tting on my husband at the same time because he wasn't who *I* wanted him to be. I justified it all because I wasn't happy. He didn't make me happy. He wasn't enough for me emotionally. So I stuck some other guys d*ck in my mouth for 30 seconds so I could continue to feed off the high I was getting having my ego stroked by some idiot who just wanted to get off. I was a wh*re. Selfish. Uncaring. Only concerned with making me feel good. The problem was ME. Sure he had his issues but I wasn't in prison. I was free to leave, but it was easier to take the selfish route.

OWN YOU. Let him go, let him walk. Let him do what HE needs to do to heal. You don't seem to get it, this is not about YOUR pain. If he never comes back to you, that's on you. We can't go back and change history. Your actions led you here, just as mine did.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Beautifully written losing him. 

I can feel you through your writing. That is remorse. 

Truly I don't think most BS or WS can do it and I don't blame either for deciding it's not for them. If you choose to R it's a lifetime of R for both spouses. Both will have pain.
If OP wants romance and soulmates she's not going to find it from her BS.


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## GusPolinski

She's not going to find a soulmate in anyone.

Because there's no such thing.


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## LosingHim

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> Beautifully written losing him.
> 
> I can feel you through your writing. That is remorse.
> 
> Truly I don't think most BS or WS can do it and I don't blame either for deciding it's not for them. If you choose to R it's a lifetime of R for both spouses. Both will have pain.
> If OP wants romance and soulmates she's not going to find it from her BS.


Thank you. There's a lot more I didn't go into here. But for this post that's all that needs to be said.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

GusPolinski said:


> She's not going to find a soulmate in anyone.
> 
> Because there's no such thing.


I do agree with this. There's compatibility + attraction and chemistry that when you make effort and work on it can last a lifetime. But there's no one soul mate per person or love at first sight or love can conquer all BS.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you for your honesty. I do deserve all of this and then some. I earned this. My husband knows I accept my fate. He also knows that I'm willing to go through the treacherous work of reconciliation and that I'm committed to him and to our marriage no matter what. He doesn't want me to give up either. He won't tell y'all that though







He could get crucified. He WOULD. Y'all a tough crowd!! 

In addition to my regular weekly IC for my personal therapy, I also counsel with a licensed Infidelity Specialist/Therapist weekly as well from Affair Recovery. They have a YouTube channel with hundreds of vlogs for both the unfaithful and the betrayed. Very helpful and encouraging. They are for reconciliation and believe most marriages can survive if both spouses are willing to put in the hard work to save the marriage and their family. They are very real with me about the work it requires, the boundaries that would forever be in place, the triggers, the need for accountability, and a lifetime promise of no more secrets...ever, etc. The specialist I talk to is 10 years post D-day even...so he has a real perspective for me. He and his wife are living proof of how good it really can be though. It is better for many. It's a different, more mature better. More closeness and a deeper appreciation for one another and a very solid love life. I know not everyone's story ends the same though. My husband and I do still have much to still fight for. I don't need to explain any of that to anyone on here either. He knows. That's what matters to me. Not what anybody else thinks. If he says we will divorce though after our 12 month separation, then we will divorce. That's his choice. A piece of paper saying we are no longer legally married does not change my love for him or his for me. I loved him when we didn't even have a marriage license and he loved me then too. Paper is paper. That's ok too. 

Those picking apart my words or my way of writing are sorta making me laugh, I'm sorry. I'm not really good with words at all and I stumble for the right words to use to fit or demonstrate most closely how I'm feeling. My husband is the best "writer" I've ever known. Hallmark card quality. Lol My words are not flowery or over the top. I'm expressive. That's just who I am. It's not fake either or insincere. My husband knows that as well. I'm sorry if it comes across as such. I do mean all that I say. Once again I'll say and I don't mean this disrespectfully at all...you guys don't know me and it's very easy to throw stones or judge from behind a computer or phone screen without knowing me or anyone on here personally. My personality differs from one person whose differs from another, etc. We are not all robots. Thank goodness!!

Anyway, I do really appreciate your post. You typed what I have lived and feel even now about myself. Shame is a silent killer. I've held on to it since childhood. I do believe it is time to be kind to yourself in this though. You have paid your dues and continue to do so. Be proud of yourself for making it work. I admire you. I admire your husband.

And PS..I am a romantic type. They do exist.


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## LosingHim

My husband had an EA for roughly 8-9 years before I cheated, a drunken ONS that lasted 30 seconds with his best friend, which I stopped. He then had what some - depending who you ask - consider a 1.5 year, give or take some months, physical revenge affair with the same woman he had an EA with. Peppered in there was porn addiction, asking an old flame for pictures of her breasts, taking condoms on work trips, etc. He has essentially not been faithful to me in one way or another for our entire 12 year relationship. He, to this day, has little remorse. Hell I don't even think he has regret. He just did bad things and I can accept it or not according to him. 

So trust me. I know first hand the pain your husband is feeling. Do I love my husband? Yeah, I do. Although many, many times a day I ask myself why. Do I cry over his infidelity? God yes. Do I cry over mine? God yes. This is by far the most painful place I've ever been in my entire life. I'm not planning to leave my husband any time soon, I'm not strong enough. But you can bet our "love story" isn't anything like it used to be. I doubt I'll ever look at him the same and the same for him.

The best you're gonna get is two broken people who just refuse to let go.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Your last line reminded me of this. It's a must see. https://youtu.be/RhxELo-uD3c


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## SunnyT

If that is the "best you are going to get"..... then why keep on? 

For appearances?
So you don't be a statistic?
Because ya'll were the ones who are "different"? Like, REALLY love each other?
For the kids? 

Sometimes, there are more reasons to divorce than there are to stay together. And I think, when you get to that point... "love" is moot. 

Happiness is not moot. A nice, contented, not miserable life... is real, not moot.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Call it cheesy or whatever, but yes, my husband and I really do have something special and still do really truly love each other. He just told me he loved me 2 days ago even...even after all of this. It is possible to love somebody that has hurt you. It is possible to see them through eyes of mercy. There are beautiful stories all over the internet of real couples that are a testament of that. 

We do also have a sweet family. We have made the four most beautiful babies you've ever seen. They are vibrant children with the cutest personalities. My husband has also raised my two oldest boys from my first marriage. They're in high school and think my husband hung the moon. They truly love him as their dad.


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## Mrs. John Adams

Losinghim...

I want to tell you ...and in a round about way tell SS... your post is sad...it is very very very sad.

I cheated on my husband 34 years ago...he has always kissed me...always made love to me...never taken off his wedding ring...has continued to treat me with love and respect. and two years later he had a revenge affair. We always kissed always made love and never took off our wedding rings.

It sounds to me very much like you have settled for a man who no longer loves and respects you for the person you are...and has never forgiven you for what you have done..and in return you have not forgiven him.

A very wise person i know said to me one time...your betrayed spouse has to love you more than they hate what you have done...i think we do

Your spouse CLEARLY is not there....and he may NEVER be there...and i dont think you are there either.

But do not ever come here and say that love and hope and forgiveness and happiness is not possible...because i am living proof that you are WRONG. It may not be possible for you...but it is possible

Was it becasue i did more than you did? Was it becasue my betrayed worked harder than yours did? were we more determined? did we try harder?

I honestly cannot answer that. But i can tell you this...34 years after my betrayal...we are happier than we have ever been. Is it because we are older...and we have had more time to evaluate the important things in life? Maybe....

Many couples touched by infidelity settled...kids, money, fear....

but sometimes...couples stay together because they truly love each other. We are one of those couples. We did many many things wrong in our reconciliation....but the one thing we did right was we never gave up on each other...we never quit...we just kept working toward the goal...and we were always in love. and i am here to tell you...The best you're gonna get is two broken people who just refuse to let go...may be your bottom line...but it aint mine....


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## manfromlamancha

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Y'all, I'm sorry. I'm going to be really real here and I know I'm about to get fully blasted, but it's ok.
> 
> I have taken full ownership in my affairs. I know I could've chosen differently, but I didn't. I failed. I broke my husband's heart and made him feel like he was losing his mind. I watched him suffer and I turned my selfish eye away from it. I have caused him to pay the price of something he doesn't deserve to pay. I brought him to this mess without his permission. I shared a part of me with that belonged to him. I took away our "special"...the special he believed in too when I broke my covenant with him. My actions have greatly affected him in so many ways. Ways that are unfair to him. He didn't asked for any of this. I dumped it on him. I unloaded my secrets and felt free for getting it all out, but the weight of it all was only transferred to my husband to bear. My actions have cost him a great deal. I didn't care about the cost at the time. In fact, I didn't even consider the cost. I only cared about me. My selfish wants.
> 
> *You should have stopped here if you really understood what everyone has been telling you. The rest of this post is pure drivel in terms of being sorry for cheating - its irrelevant when talking about your cheating, and most of all, it is extremely destructive to your chances of saving this marriage or at least walking away with both of you knowing that you were truly sorry.*
> 
> When I speak of our marriage issues prior to my indiscretions, it's because now that my filth is front and center, what had been hurting me for many years is now negated. Like it never happened...doesn't count...isn't valid. This is where I may get blasted: it still matters to me. I still hurt from it. I still feel like I was the only one fighting for a happy marriage and it still does hurt. I tried. Oh how I tried to capture that man's heart. I was madly in love with him. Those hurts are ignored now though. Not valid because of what we are now facing. But they're still valid to me. It's still a piece of our puzzle. It still really hurts.
> 
> Those hurts are not justications for my sins. They are separate from that. I never ever once thought, "oh I deserve this because he doesn't pay attention to me". I feel like that's what you guys think was my mindset and that's inaccurate.
> 
> I liked the way the AP made me feel about myself. I craved that attention and fed off of it. I wasn't into HIM. I was into what he was dishing out. He could've been anybody. It wouldn't have mattered. I liked the feeling of being noticed and wanted. The secrecy behind it was exciting and terrifying all at once. A rush. I felt alive. I didn't feel like the mother of 7 kids scrubbing the smashed fruit snacks off of the floor. I felt young again and wanted. Desired. It was nice. Just being real. It was also WRONG.
> 
> Now, I sit here living with the consequences of my actions. My husband also having to face unfair consequences of MY actions.
> 
> Anyone on here that is caught up in an affair or is finding yourself tempted or leaning that way...STOP IT NOW. It's never worth it. It's the most horrendous mistake you'll ever make. It has shattered our lives. You will hurt those you love the most and they will pay for your mistakes in the most unfortunate ways. You will hate yourself. You will look in the mirror and see a person you despise. You will look in your wounded spouse's eyes and see the worst pain you've ever seen and know you caused it. You will not sleep at night. You will toss and turn and wallow around in the nightmare you created. You will experience the worst torment and inner turmoil. You will long for your spouse's touch more than you ever have before. You will have to tell your children that you are the cause of the marriage breakup. You will LIVE with this the rest of your life if you don't feel like ending it (those thoughts come...trust me).
> 
> All I can do is what I've been doing. Loving our babies we made together, digging deep inside my soul for answers, going to therapy, learning to somehow love myself and seeking God. I don't want to be this person anymore. I hate her. I hate the chaos and destruction she causes. I want to eradicate that from my life forever...never to return. Never to hurt anyone again.
> 
> My hope is solely in my God right now. Things look hopeless, I know. I choose to hang on anyway. My husband knows I am not going anywhere. He knows I'm a fighter. He's seen it before. I do love him. I really do. I'm grieved for the hurt I have caused this precious man that I am married to. I pray one day, we will find our way back to each other. I know it's a long hard road. *And yet you continued to write twice as much about what made you do it etc etc *


Every one of your posts shoots down what you start out saying (how sorry you are and its your fault) by justifying why you did it etc.
Mrs John Adams made it very clear to you and she was in your shoes - to your husband you are now nothing but a serial cheater. An adept liar. Someone with very little empathy or respect for anyone else but yourself. He is not your "sweet Rocket". He is the man who loved you and got repaid with you taking any chance you got to make yourself feel better by doing abhorrent things with another POS man! Stop using God, endearing phrases for Rocket or any other mechanism to deflect from what you actually did and are.

In fact the title of this thread says it all!!!


----------



## Rubix Cubed

SlowlyGoingCrazy said:


> ^ Flowery dramatics is 100% spot on. I have the same feeling reading it but couldn't quite place it. It's just a bunch of sappy words without meaning behind them.
> 
> And I don't have the "All WS must die by fire" kind of feelings that many do on CWI but something... just irks me when I read it.


 Like a sales pitch.


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## Rubix Cubed

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Because I loved him. I wanted to believe that every day was a new day...maybe the day we would turn a corner. My Rocket surely never wanted me to cheat, but I also know he would've never wanted me to give up on our marriage either *(even before the affairs). I never wanted to give up...I still don't! *


 But that's exactly what you did ,gave up on your marriage, as soon as you started soaking up the attention from another man , then taking him in your mouth, and again when you hid all of this from Rocket. For someone with such a great vocabulary ( even though you say different) you really don't get it, even after being told dozens of times by some extremely knowledgable folks. If you don't really do some deep introspection you're done. I think the best thing for Rocket would be to get the divorce , and maybe later down the road ,if you have fixed yourself and become a safe potential partner, you could try to see if it may work again.


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## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> That's just who I am. It's not fake either or insincere. My husband knows that as well. I'm sorry if it comes across as such. I do mean all that I say.


Most of why I think your replies are self-serving, husband blaming deflection are because I believe you mean what you say more than half the time, just not the half you're hoping everyone else buys without checking the teeth first.


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## Spicy

Here I sit, finally caught up on both of your threads. My overwhelming emotion is sadness. For Rocket, your kids, your exs and you SS.

You and Rocket have a history of making bad choices. Cheating is what brought you together, and it may be what permanently tears you apart. 

He was/is neglectful. Your reaction was to cheat. Two serious wrongs don't make a right. The way he treated you in your marriage is NOT ok. You certainly don't sound like you were cherished as a wife. You made some HORRIBLE choices to find that validation elsewhere. Those attempts have left you soiled and feeling even more worthless. You let someone else's husband use you, (and you him) and put yet another marriage in jeopardy. This is all really gross, and I do have a hard time comprehending it from a faithful married woman's standpoint. 

That being said, even with very serious transgressions, and even if you are a repeat offender, I think you can still change. I think a successful R is possible, and if it is what you both decide you want, I hope you can find success in that path. I know you were upset that Rocket shared your affair timeline with us, but that is the piece that gave me the most hope for your situation. Gut wrenching honesty is what was needed here. I'm glad you gave all the details you did. He sounds like he really needs that. Next, a lot of work on each of you....separately and also together when the time comes. He needs to be a better husband, and you need to be a faithful wife. Those two things, along with lots of time for healing and rebuilding may give you that final chance to save your marriage that you are looking for.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Spicy, 
Thank you. Truly. Thank you for being objective yet positive. I am bothered by how many marriages are ended on this site because nobody offers hope. There is nothing wrong with believing in hope and that people can and do change. My dad used to say, "Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're probably right." I choose to believe we will make it. My husband loves me even though I've ruined our lives. He loves ME. The me he knows apart from my frailty and sin.

Also I am bothered that I've been told by other posters (in pm) that affairs happen often on this very forum in private messaging. People preaching one thing publicly, yet engaging in their own destructive behavior in secret. Sad. 

I appreciate you taking the time to fully understand both sides of our situation. Means a lot.


----------



## drifting on

Sofasleeper

I'm not trying to be harsh at all with you, but from what I see it's all regret. It would take to many words and paragraphs to address each point I see wrong. Even after reading some of your posts I get hope, hope that you see, then to be let down as you continue forwards without a clue. You have been given sound and helpful advice that you could have implemented to help save your marriage, then promptly disregard it. I see you as wanting to save your marriage, ready to pull out all the stops, ready to commit with your full heart, then your actions say different. Basically you, and rocket skates for that matter, are left with nothing but empty words. 

You have spoken here about wanting hope, but feel the comments were harsh and possibly hopeless. You say we don't know you, we don't know rocket skates, and that we fail to see these are true people. You have stated how alone and distant rocket skates has made you feel, how much pain you feel from it. You say you've caused pain and hurt to rocket skates, and that you have felt pain from him, then say how much you love each other. Love is not causing pain and hurt to those you love. 

One of your posts earlier absolutely stunned me at your arrogance. The next paragraph spoke of how much you two love each other. How special your love is that you two share, so special in fact, that you send naked pictures on a whim. You will probably dispute what I'm about to say, but if you reflect inward honestly you will agree. You didn't love rocket skates during your affair, in fact I would bet that you in fact despised him. Please stop saying how special your love is with rocket skates, it compares with how you said your affair was different or arranged however you put it. Your affair was typical, couple compliments and off come your clothes and willing to perform oral sex. Very typical. 

If you want hope, if you want this marriage you say you do so much, then listen to the advice your given. Many posters have been dead on about what you need to do, yet you've ignored it all. Have you scheduled a polygraph? Have you revisited his parents and yours to talk to together? Have you come to stop defending yourself and truly opened your heart for being humble? Have you stopped blaming your affair on others? I don't think you have, and therefore rocket skates can't feel safe, instead he feels even less safe. 

If you want to have hope there are many things you need to do. The first is to understand exactly where your marriage is at, dead. Second thing you must come to understand , is your husbands flaws are his to own, even if it caused you pain. If you are fortunate enough to enter MC you will work on the infidelity first. No other problems or issues will be worked on. Why, because if you both can't get past the infidelity there is no point in working on the rest. Third, I see no remorse, I see regret, but regret isn't enough, and even that is blurred by you continuing to blame rocket. 

My wife had a six month affair with a coworker, full PA with the EA included. Her affair resulted in her becoming pregnant, delivering twins and deceiving me on the paternity. My d-day was on January 14 of 2014. Six months later we entered reconciliation, we are still together and becoming happier each day. That came with a huge price though, and neither of us are what we were before the affair, we have both changed. My wife spoke just like you, but unlike you her actions showed her sincerity. Her actions mirrored her words, and she didn't mention my flaws or what I brought to the marriage that was toxic. We both entered IC, we worked on ourselves and the marriage at the same time. I don't advise working on both at the same time, but our situation was not the same as yours. Normally I would be a sarcastic jerk and tell you our situation is different, not typical, but I think you can see that yours wasn't either. 

How is that for hope? You are probably thinking I should have divorced my wife and never spoken to her again. The level of deception nearly as deep as it can get, but we are reconciling. My wife earned that gift, I chose to forgive, I chose to give her that gift, but she showed me true remorse. She didn't speak empty words, she used actions to have me feel safe. She used actions to earn trust, she used actions to show her commitment, what have you truly shown rocket? You went to his parents? You are transparent? You are ok with his monitoring of your whereabouts? What saddens me is how much you don't get it, how much you still focus on your pain, how much your reputation means to you, how much you avoid to do the hard work. At what point do you finally accept that you killed the marriage? Because when you accept this marriage died on your actions can you truly begin to see what you need to do to build a new marriage. If you want to pm me for help that's fine, I have no objections. God bless.


----------



## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Spicy,
> Thank you. Truly. Thank you for being objective yet positive. I am bothered by how many marriages are ended on this site because nobody offers hope. There is nothing wrong with believing in hope and that people can and do change. My dad used to say, "Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're probably right." I choose to believe we will make it. My husband loves me even though I've ruined our lives. He loves ME. The me he knows apart from my frailty and sin.
> 
> Also I am bothered that I've been told by other posters (in pm) that affairs happen often on this very forum in private messaging. People preaching one thing publicly, yet engaging in their own destructive behavior in secret. Sad.
> 
> I appreciate you taking the time to fully understand both sides of our situation. Means a lot.


SS, I take great exception to your comments. It is not the objective of this site or any site to feed you BS about hope, just because you do not like to hear what your reality is. Pluzzzzz! Noone can gloss over and make pretty what you have done, accept that.
In addition, whether you listen or not is up to you, there will be a range of views on this site. 

You have an attitude of 'the world must revolve around me' I have been too long in this world, to let that BS slide, and you are absolutely full of it. You really know how to talk, and talk yourself up and say all the right things. Honestly, I see through it all and you are in for a long long rough ride. Please get some humility and stop with the theatrics and the passing judgment.

You have had cheated many times and then make comments about other posters etc. Please focus on your own problems and get yourself sorted. I guess you heard the bible verse (maybe not, I wonder) 'take the log out of your own eye first before you take the speck out of your brothers eye' your lack of humility is a stench unto my nostrils.

You are no more different or special that the other cheaters who come here looking for advice. Until you are willing to be broken and humbled by that fact, you will talk the talk, big time but Rocket would be a fool to R with you. Many of us have been in the same position.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.

I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family. 

Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth. 

I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what? 

The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.

We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.

So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.


----------



## growing_weary

aine said:


> SS, I take great exception to your comments. It is not the objective of this site or any site to feed you BS about hope, just because you do not like to hear what your reality is. Pluzzzzz! Noone can gloss over and make pretty what you have done, accept that.
> In addition, whether you listen or not is up to you, there will be a range of views on this site.
> 
> You have an attitude of 'the world must revolve around me' I have been too long in this world, to let that BS slide, and you are absolutely full of it. You really know how to talk, and talk yourself up and say all the right things. Honestly, I see through it all and you are in for a long long rough ride. Please get some humility and stop with the theatrics and the passing judgment.
> 
> You have had cheated many times and then make comments about other posters etc. Please focus on your own problems and get yourself sorted. I guess you heard the bible verse (maybe not, I wonder) 'take the log out of your own eye first before you take the speck out of your brothers eye' your lack of humility is a stench unto my nostrils.
> 
> You are no more different or special that the other cheaters who come here looking for advice. Until you are willing to be broken and humbled by that fact, you will talk the talk, big time but Rocket would be a fool to R with you. Many of us have been in the same position.


Preach!

Sofasleeper if you want more posters who will, as you said, see both sides (the way you want them to), and affirm your statements perhaps surviving infidelity's wayward forums may be more your speed. Honest suggestion. If you post here and expect to be treated any differently the more justifying and explaining you do, you're going to be perpetually "bothered."


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.
> 
> I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family.
> 
> Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth.
> 
> I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what?
> 
> The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.
> 
> We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.
> 
> So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.


Yeah, this forum is to blame. It's good you're really angry at strangers relaying their experiences, thoughts, and advice, which is what people come here seeking, and at him for talking so much here when he should have been talking to you (in the moments he could drag you off of another man I suppose). This post is confirmation of everything everyone has said about your approach to this marriage. Somehow, -you're- the victim. Somehow, your relationship is a wounded animal being badgered by evil anonymous strangers on the internet. My advice to you remains the same, learn to tell yourself the truth, even when the closest you can get to that truth is asking yourself questions which are uncomfortable. You're focused on saving a marriage when you should be focused first on saving yourself. You're not going to be able to do anything good for anyone else in your life until you've done that. A "renewed" marriage isn't going to fix you, and can't be renewed unless there is a new you inside it.


----------



## TX-SC

I'll be one of the outsiders here and say that my reading of your posts leads me to believe that you truly do love your husband and want to fix yourself. R is possible if you put in the effort and if your BS is willing to give it a shot. But, only if you blame yourself for this and don't push it off on him. Many of us here have suffered from a lack of attention but yet do not cheat. It's simply not a good excuse. Take that to heart and live it. 

I'm sorry you are getting so much negativity here, but it should be expected. What you did was horrendous and hurtful. Many here have felt that pain themselves. D is almost always thrown around here in TAM as the first and best option. Although I may disagree with it, each poster has a right to post their thoughts. Don't take it personally.


----------



## Red Sonja

Just for the record, TAM folks ... _this _is what Narcissistic Rage looks like (in written form).




Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.
> 
> I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family.
> 
> Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth.
> 
> I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what?
> 
> The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.
> 
> We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.
> 
> So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.


----------



## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.
> 
> I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family.
> 
> Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth.
> 
> I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what?
> 
> The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.
> 
> We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.
> 
> So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.



Then why come on the site? If you want people to help you justify your actions to yourself go to a site that does that. This site is pro-marriage and admittedly it is not pro-cheater and I think that is what you want. You just want to hear all the good, the hope, people to be your cheer leaders.
I rarely get pissed off on this site, but please get over yourself with your dramatics of stoning, etc, no-one 'destroyed' your marriage except yourself. Your sense of entitlement is so unbelievable. You are not entitled to a softly softly approach. Typical cheater speak, blame shift blame shift. AND I think you have no say in what happens, isn't that your poor BH's choice? 

This is just an anonymous website with people who do genuinely want to help other people, but you are intent on proving everyone wrong because you are so concerned with protecting your view of your reality. Frankly it is no skin of anyone's nose here whether you guys make it or not, I hope the pain and damage that is done to your BH and children from your heinous acts is lessened. But missy, please be very very clear, YOU DESTROYED YOUR OWN MARRIAGE WHEN YOU STUCK ANOTHER MANS PENIS IN YOUR MOUTH, no-one else. NOT your H, NOT this site, NOT the 'inexperienced' people on this site. You are so far up your own ass it is unbelievable, you my dear need a huge reality check.

And whomever is 'consoling' you about the degenerates on this site ought to have better things to do.
Get over yourself and face the reality of YOUR actions. You are so unbelievably arrogant, since you have been married twice and have four kids I cannot assume your are not too young to have sense, but you sure are sassy and haughty for someone in your current circumstances.
Remember 'a haughty spirit goes before a fall' casting comments on all and sundry and justifying your actions to anonymous people, tearing down this site and people who give of their time, etc yet you build yourself up to be a victim. God have mercy on your poor BH because you have a long long way to go.
I am not a person who lacks compassion but you my dear need to learn humility, your attitude absolutely sinks.


----------



## Rubix Cubed

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.
> 
> I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family.
> 
> Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth.
> 
> I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what?
> 
> The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.
> 
> We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.
> 
> So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.





Red Sonja said:


> Just for the record, TAM folks ... _this _is what Narcissistic Rage looks like (in written form).


 Not only that , but that post seems to make clear that the only reason she came here was to circumvent any good advice Rocketskates was receiving. Manipulation and control. It's obvious she doesn't want any advice that contradicts her control of the outcome.


----------



## turnera

So...you came here thinking you could convince everyone to like you and tell him to come back to you. Unfortunately, we ARE veterans and we have seen it all. We KNOW how to read between the lines on people's posts. We know how to see motives and patterns and lack of humility and blame-shifting. And when we call you out on it, your recourse is "oh poor little me, I have a terrible time with words, you must have misunderstood me, I AM humble."

No, we understood you. Quite well. Because we've seen dozens of women just like you who are used to getting what they want and can't believe it's not working this time.

And then, just like clockwork, your indignation comes out when the pity-me words don't work, and you stomp off in anger. But not before you try one last time to convince your husband not to listen to us.

Problem is, we WANT you two to reconcile. But we knew what it would take and we tried, relentlessly, to explain what it would require - your humility. Some people are just incapable of humility. That's ok. But we tried. You just weren't having it. 

rocket, you'll know if she ever shows real humility. What will it look like? She'll be telling you - honestly - to go ahead and leave if it helps you. And stop telling you that you love her and have something special and it's meant to be. She should have thought of that before she unzipped some other guy's pants.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

This will be my last post. 

You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though. Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future. 

People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life. 

I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed. 


Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.


----------



## JustAFamilyMan

Sofa Sleeper said:


> This will be my last post.
> 
> You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though. Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future.
> 
> People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life.
> 
> I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed.
> 
> 
> Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.


I hope Rocket doesn't fall for the attempt to make his refusal to let you back into damage his life a sign he's not in tune with "God". Few things are slimier than using religion and faith as a tool to manipulate others for the benefit of the broken. People absolutely change, but never before they embrace who they truly are, right then, first. You're still miles away from that. That's not lashing out at you, it's being honest with you in the hopes you can learn to be honest with yourself.


----------



## TX-SC

Sofa Sleeper said:


> This will be my last post.
> 
> You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though. Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future.
> 
> People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life.
> 
> I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed.
> 
> 
> Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.


Fight for your husband and fight for your marriage. You obviously love your husband dearly. You have some serious problems that you need to address about yourself before you can become the partner that you need to be for R. 

You are absolutely right that none of us knows the pain you and your husband are feeling. Every person and every relationship is different. Every cheater and every broken marriage is different. There are simply too many variables for any of us to truly understand you, your husband, or your marriage. 

All I can recommend is to back away from TAM or most internet forums. Honestly, Rocket should do the same. This is simply too important to let the anger and pain of a bunch of internet strangers sway your or his judgment. Seek a professional counselor for yourself and then for your marriage. Rocket should also see a counselor to understand his own feelings. 

What is broken can be fixed, but it takes two to make R work. If he walks away, there's not much you can do. You need to show him through your actions that you can be a better person and a better, more trustworthy, partner. 

He married you for a reason. I hope you can help him to remember that. I wish the two of you well!


----------



## LosingHim

I came here much like you. Defending what I did. Thinking I had reasons. Thinking I could excuse it. Thinking I could get "our beautiful life back". I took BEATINGS. Much the same as you. I sobbed at some of the things people said to me. I was sad, angry, hurt, etc. These a$$holes didn't KNOW ME! And then I started to listen. And I started to put into effect the things these people said. This website saved my life! A betrayed husband on this site was who I reached out to the night I almost ran my car off the road! No, not because there was any funny business going on, but because he - a man betrayed in the worst way - saw that I was trying, saw that I was getting it and he helped me. 4 months after I came here, my husband asked me to stay. Now, my "love story" sure as hell isnt the greatest. But if you don't think this website helped save my marriage, which is what I wanted - then you're crazy. There are still people here who don't like me because I'm a cheater. And that's ok. But, I've also met a hell of a lot of people who came after me with pitchforks and 2x4s who I now greatly enjoy conversing with and I value their advice to me and others.

That is the reason your marriage will fail. Because you don't want to take any lumps. You want YOUR pain to stop. But you don't want to learn in order to help make that happen.


----------



## drifting on

LosingHim said:


> I came here much like you. Defending what I did. Thinking I had reasons. Thinking I could excuse it. Thinking I could get "our beautiful life back". I took BEATINGS. Much the same as you. I sobbed at some of the things people said to me. I was sad, angry, hurt, etc. These a$$holes didn't KNOW ME! And then I started to listen. And I started to put into effect the things these people said. This website saved my life! A betrayed husband on this site was who I reached out to the night I almost ran my car off the road! No, not because there was any funny business going on, but because he - a man betrayed in the worst way - saw that I was trying, saw that I was getting it and he helped me. 4 months after I came here, my husband asked me to stay. Now, my "love story" sure as hell isnt the greatest. But if you don't think this website helped save my marriage, which is what I wanted - then you're crazy. There are still people here who don't like me because I'm a cheater. And that's ok. But, I've also met a hell of a lot of people who came after me with pitchforks and 2x4s who I now greatly enjoy conversing with and I value their advice to me and others.
> 
> That is the reason your marriage will fail. Because you don't want to take any lumps. You want YOUR pain to stop. But you don't want to learn in order to help make that happen.




QFT!! Sofa Sleeper, I called Losinghim out on her not being remorseful. All I can say now is that Losinghim is a very special person who completely gets it. What she has gone through is hell, but she learned and has shown to be a very intelligent person. Is her marriage what she wants it to be, maybe not, but I have high hopes that it will be what she wants. Learn from Losinghim, in my opinion she is one of the best posters here.


----------



## farsidejunky

For your viewing pleasure, SS.

https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


----------



## Rocky Mountain Yeti

farsidejunky said:


> For your viewing pleasure, SS.
> 
> https://www.lynneforrest.com/articles/2008/06/the-faces-of-victim/


Very interesting piece. I'm not sure everyone actually fits neatly into that paradigm, but I can see how many do. 

Rather thought provoking actually.


----------



## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm done being a punching bag. I too have boundaries. None of you are without fault. Not one here has never broken one of the Ten Commandments. Throw your stones, but one day you'll be in need of mercy and you too will be stoned.
> 
> I don't owe any of you anything. My life is owed only to my husband and my family.
> 
> Yall can carry on DESTROYING marriages that truly have a chance. You can all give each virtual high fives when you've convinced another person to divorce a repentant spouse. You all play a big game and talk a big talk hiding behind your screen names and screens. Have any of you considered that your "advice" is mere OPINIONS based upon two people you've never met and never will. But... you think your "objectivity" is the voice of truth.
> 
> I am NOT a confrontational person at ALL, but you are continuing to further damage a couple that still loves each other and has a chance. And for what?
> 
> The BEST thing you can do is leave my husband alone and leave me alone. If we talked to each other as much as he has talked to you all on here, we would be a lot further in this. YOU have encouraged him to ignore me. Way to go. You are accomplishing much. The interesting thing is one of you veterans on here PM'd me and said some of you dishing out nuggets of wisdom have never experienced infidelity, have never experienced reconciliation and no zilch about that path, and some have never even been married!!! But you want to "advise" my husband and now me. No thanks. Save it. Get off of here and go LOVE someone in REAL LIFE and quit meddling in the lives of others.
> 
> We both have licensed therapists. There is no need for an online forum of thousands of jaded and bitter people with varying opinions trying to advise our personal situation that is none of your business.
> 
> So, I'm saying goodbye. Attack!!!! Go ahead. You will. That's what you do. Even in my husband's posts when he mentions reconciliation or thinking we have a chance, your bitter claws come out and attack even him. SHAME ON YOU. Leave my poor husband alone. He has a mind and a beating heart of his own and guess what.....that beating heart loves me.




This is the post I had hoped would never have been written. Sofa Sleeper, this post has done more damage then you ever thought possible. Here you are completely angry at all of us, yet we truly didn't do the harm, you did. I had hopes that you could hold on, begin to see what you were being told, practice what you were told. Instead you have lashed out at us, and really for what? Because we don't believe or can see what you can't? Have you once put yourself squarely in your husbands shoes? In mine or any other posters? I will try to explain what I've seen from you. 

First, the anger, that needs to go, your being angry at us or rocket will cause the marriage to fail. Right now rocket has, the last I saw, wanted a divorce. You had the affair(s), the choice for reconciliation is on rocket, not you. Gently said your actions killed the marriage, and even though you want reconciliation, it's just not your choice. 

Second, what do you honestly think rocket sees when he looks at you? Although I don't know either of you personally, what I would see is a three time cheater. First when you two met, and then you had an EA and a PA. Rocket sees someone who cheats, then say that your love is special, then cheats again. There is no defending your choices, no blame shifting, and certainly a broken person in yourself. You have said this goes back to your childhood, and maybe it does, but it appears rocket has gone as far as he's willing to go in marriage with you. Perhaps your marriage will end and then you can compete for rocket after the divorce. I can't however say you are ready for reconciliation. That work is very difficult, more difficult then you know, and that is not meant to slight you. I'm hoping you will understand the self reflection you will have to do that doesn't involve rocket in the least. 

So here are some tough questions, you don't need to answer, they are for your thoughts. 

What exactly do you bring to the table as a wife that rocket finds appealing? 
After two affairs, how do you say rocket is your one and only? You had him, but look deeply into what you did with his love.
I asked you questions in our pm, you gave your answer, does it mirror rockets actions? 
Speaking of that, do you hear words from rocket and then his actions don't mirror his words? Do you think rocket see this from you? 

I'm not trying to be hard on you, I've offered to help you and I still will. You can ask via pm or this thread, whichever you feel most comfortable with. I hope and pray you look deeply within yourself to see what posters have said to you. I hope you see that reconciliation may be possible if you work on yourself and give rocket space. God bless you.


----------



## 3Xnocharm

Sofa Sleeper said:


> This will be my last post.
> 
> You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? *You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though.* Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future.
> 
> People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life.
> 
> *I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. *I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed.
> 
> 
> Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.


I for one dont feel sorry for you, reading this. YOU did this. YOU are the one who did this to yourself, and the reason that your husband hurts. YOU are the one who came here, thinking you could distract us away from Rocket's thread, give us your boo hoo sob story and make us convince him to stay with you. Honestly, I will never, ever encourage a betrayed spouse to stay with their cheater. EVER. I've been a cheater. I've been cheated ON. I know both sides. 

You have been in an unhappy marriage with a neglectful husband. I get it, I have lived it. I have cheated. No matter how unhappy you are, it does not give you permission to cheat. It does not give you the right to tell your husband how he is to feel about it, or how he should respond to it. You came here for sympathy, and to try to skew things in your favor. Rocket has every right to come here for guidance and venting, and now you have taken away his safe place. And we are supposed to feel sorry for you? That is not going to happen here. You cannot say that we have no right, YOU came to US, and as you can see, WE have all been there before, so we are speaking from life experiences. You get raw truth here, like it or not. Sorry if you cant handle that.


----------



## Spicy

I understand why you won't be posting anymore. I was hoping the lines of communication would be able to stay open. Still, you can use this site as a resource to learn from others such as @LosingHim, should you so desire.


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## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> This will be my last post.
> 
> You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though. Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future.
> 
> People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life.
> 
> I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed.
> 
> 
> Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.



Get out the orchestra.........................You are preaching to the wrong people here, majority of us have had all sorts of trouble in our marriages, many of us still do, but you wont find us coming on here full of verbosity, criticizing other people, being DEFENSIVE and arrogant. Praying for other people to be in trouble, what kind of person are you? You are not a special snowflake.
YOu call yourself Christian? The reason why you got yourself into this mess and have committed adultery more than once (I do not understand how you didn't have an epiphany and 'change' the first time, shows your lack of self awareness and the damage you do).
I do hope you find what you are looking for, that you find healing, hope and tons of grace (you need the latter big time), but on the other hand I pray for Rocket and your kids protection from the wiles of deceit, false confession and wrong doing. SS, your only path to redemption is Godly sorrow. Get on your knees and ask Him to show you exactly the damage left in your path, ask Him to impress upon your heart the pain in your H's, ask Him to see with His eyes and not your own. Then maybe you will realise why you are receiving so many 2X4's on this site. True we do not know you, but we do know the cheater and the betrayed and we know when someone says all the right words but in between the lines we see that lack of remorse, you see it is still all about you, your pain, your tears, your love for Rocket, your mistakes, you whatever the consequences are and know that you deserve whatever happens, then you have reached where you need to be. As I said again and again you are not there yet.


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## Satya

SS, as another pointed out, I think you'll find the SI forum is more to your liking. 

Rocket should feel free to either stay with you or stay here. 

We have a very specific style of advice, peppered with a lot of experience. And it's not going to be spoonfed with sugar. 

And while you were told that some posters offering advice never went through an affair (from either side) and that's true, the majority of people answering here have been. You'll find a greater community of WS at SI. I think this is what you're seeking. People who can relate. There are some in this post, but perhaps not enough for your liking. 

All the best.


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## Sofa Sleeper

After a long night of soul searching, I knew I needed to come back in here.

I have lost what was most precious to me because I was selfish and inconsiderate. My actions have put me here, nothing else. I brought this all on myself. I had a free will choice and I completely chose wrong and then did all I could to cover it at the expense of my husband's sanity. Now, he has a free will choice to walk away from me. I accept that. I deserve it. 

Last night I asked God to let me feel what my husband is feeling and I was overwhelmed with hurt for him. He is wounded so badly. He never deserved this...nobody deserves this. 

It is unfair to my husband to be suffering for my mistakes in every way of life. It breaks my heart and I'm so sorry for the horrendous pain I've caused him. He is even suffering consequences for MY actions and that is so unfair. 

I do not feel owed anything or that I have a right to R. If he were to choose that and extend mercy to me, it would be the most expensive gift he's ever given me. I would be forever humbled and grateful. 

I will keep getting help through my IC. I know I need it. Deep wounds of insecurity and shame and lack of worth are being dealt with and I do feel healing coming in those areas. I just want to be a person of integrity and honor. 

I apologize for coming on here and throwing a tantrum. I'm nothing special. Just a wayward soul that needs help. I am so sorry for being defensive and rude. 

I do love Rocket and always will. He forever holds my heart.

I continue to hold on to hope that things will get better for us.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Oh Jesus.

You two are the ones who met while you were both *married* then decided to LEAVE your respective spouses so you could have your "happily ever after." And don't justify that crap behavior because your then-husband was supposedly having an affair so cheating on him and leaving him for your bald Don Juan was somehow ok.

Sugarcoat it all you want, but your relationship *STARTED* as an affair and THAT'S the bottom line.

As I told your husband in HIS thread - the foundation of your marriage was built on *lies, deceit, cheating and selfish, low-rent behavior*. I'm sure his ex-wife - who he cheated on then LEFT to be with you - is laughing her ass off at your misery. I know I would.

Since you're both cheaters, you actually belong together.

Maybe he'll read your showboating here on TAM and realize you were really just a _victim_ of his emotional abuse and come running back to you.

Sorry, I'm REALLY trying but....


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## Blondilocks

I haven't posted on either your or your husband's threads before. All I will say is that your husband isn't suffering from your 'mistakes'. You didn't match his brown socks with his blue socks. You actively made *choices and decisions* that could very well end your marriage. Own your *choices and decisions*. Learn how you convinced yourself that those *choices and decisions *were good for all parties involved and how to make better *choices and decisions*. 

It may be too late for your marriage, but the discovery process will serve you for the rest of your life. Good luck to you and your husband.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

The up and down is a little alarming. Rage to flowery. No neutral. Impatience and need for instant gratification with little self control. IMO you want him back out of a fear of abandonment. It has little to do with him as a person and more to do with your feelings about him leaving and you being alone. You want the instant gratification of him coming back but aren't ready for the lifelong work of R.

I think it would be best for you to just be on your own and work solely on yourself in IC for a while. 
Let your husband do what he wants and focus just on you. 

Maybe give it 6 months of working on yourself and letting him work on himself and then set up a meeting to discuss if you want to continue with the D or begin MC to see if you can R. 

If you can work on yourself for 6 months knowing the possibility of him coming back are low, then he'd have reason to believe you are serious about changing. That will also tell him if you're in it for the long haul or just the instant gratification. He may still decide he wants to move on. 

Right now words are just noise. They mean nothing yet. More words aren't going to help anything. When I was there I hated words. Every I love you and I'm sorry made me want to punch him. Do actions.


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## farsidejunky

SS, any thoughts on the Lynne Forrest article?


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> After a long night of soul searching, I knew I needed to come back in here.
> 
> I have lost what was most precious to me because I was selfish and inconsiderate. My actions have put me here, nothing else. I brought this all on myself. I had a free will choice and I completely chose wrong and then did all I could to cover it at the expense of my husband's sanity. Now, he has a free will choice to walk away from me. I accept that. I deserve it.
> 
> Last night I asked God to let me feel what my husband is feeling and I was overwhelmed with hurt for him. He is wounded so badly. He never deserved this...nobody deserves this.
> 
> It is unfair to my husband to be suffering for my mistakes in every way of life. It breaks my heart and I'm so sorry for the horrendous pain I've caused him. He is even suffering consequences for MY actions and that is so unfair.
> 
> I do not feel owed anything or that I have a right to R. If he were to choose that and extend mercy to me, it would be the most expensive gift he's ever given me. I would be forever humbled and grateful.
> 
> I will keep getting help through my IC. I know I need it. Deep wounds of insecurity and shame and lack of worth are being dealt with and I do feel healing coming in those areas. I just want to be a person of integrity and honor.
> 
> I apologize for coming on here and throwing a tantrum. I'm nothing special. Just a wayward soul that needs help. I am so sorry for being defensive and rude.
> 
> I do love Rocket and always will. He forever holds my heart.
> 
> I continue to hold on to hope that things will get better for us.




Sofa Sleeper

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here, as I'm truly shocked you did return. Sofa, infidelity is more then just pain, more then just shame and humiliation, it's life changing. By this I mean, life as you knew it is over, you will be forever changed as will rocket. Your core beliefs become shattered, you can easily lose who you were, and you can change or not change. At this moment in time you have to understand that both you and rocket are changing, who says either of you will want the new person? I was very fearful of the changes my wife and I made, I questioned if that would be who I loved. I questioned because my wife needed to make major changes, and she may become a completely different person. I wasn't fearful of her being healthy, I was fearful of who she may become, maybe better at deception and so forth. Luckily (some would say different) for me, my wife made changes I still find I love by choice each day. 

Infidelity changes everything about a person, I'm sure you obviously know this, but it's far more then you may think. Your marriage started in the worst of ways, by an affair, and now it may end for that exact same reason. If your husband had been what you did you would see him as a three time cheater. That is what rocket sees right now, and it probably has him fearful. Now you can stand in front of rocket and say the affair is your fault, but you immediately point out his shortcomings which now he sees as blame shifting. Essentially all the talk of owning your affair just flew out the window because your next sentence says he was neglectful. Rockets thoughts are that you are blaming him for your affair. This is why in MC the affair is worked through first, then the other issues of the marriage. 

I want to help you and rocket, but at this juncture of your journeys, you are both too broken to even think of reconciling. With the state you are both in IC is what you both need weekly for a period of six months before either of you should think of reconciling. The divorce can go fast or slow and even stopped if you both choose to do so, but if I were you or rocket I would let the divorce be filed and some issues hammered out. This is because in six months maybe you can't get past this, at least you aren't filing now and have to wait even longer. 

Sofa, both you and rocket should work on your individual selves for the sake of yourselves. Become better, become stronger, become more healthy overall. That should be the priority, not telling each other how much your soulmates or how much you love each other. If you honestly do believe in soulmates, you don't cheat on them, which is why I question your love for rocket. That may seem harsh, but the truth is, if he was that special love, you wouldn't have done what you did. That is what you need to work on, the why.


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## CantBelieveThis

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I continue to hold on to hope that things will get better for us.


He made mistakes over time, you made one huge one, and now the debt collector is here, is just how life is, mistakes we make in life do find a way to catch up with us, IMHO. You need to see this as a life tragedy, which ones life can have many of, and work on yourself. Only you can own yourself and what you do.


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## Mr.Fisty

Should of left him early on so you could of have more of a leverage. Yes, what he did to for years is not nullified. Instead, it caused a chain reaction of unhealthy behavior between the two of you. He hurts you, you hurt him, and the hurt is a wall from working things out.

Plus, if you would have seprated from him, you would have found out if things were worth working on. If he continued to neglect you after separation, things would have never wokred out. Yoru actions exassterbated a already bad situation. You sealed off your options.

If you wanted better, he may not have been a correct enough choice. He can choose to not show you love or neglect him. You have to choose whether you can live with poor treatment against you. Obviously, he chooses that your cheating is bad enough to leave you over.

So what if he was a different man at one point. People are different in the beginning of relationships. Things change. What you want may be nothing more than what he can give temporarily. Guess what, your pain and suffering was not enough for him to take his meds and spend time with you.

My advice is to work on yourself and your reactions to behave in a healthy way. I am not going to judge you on some moral authority that I have no right to judge you over. I am simply showing you that what you wanted is an option sealed off to you because you made a poor reactionary choice. Nor do I feel that much sympathy for his hurt either. His neglect is also a consequence of his circumstance.

See, I am not punching you like a punching bag, nor am I making him a victim. You both have issues. I would not be surprise if he marries again, treats his partner the same way, that he will end up getting cheated on again.

No one will learn to develop the tools to make a long term relationship last. It is a lot of hard work that requires a lot of communication so the people involve know each other's state of mind.

People ahve a tendency to build up walls when hurt or do not want to deal with reality. You both fall strongly into this behavior. You both lack empathy for one another.

My advice again, if you want a happy life, learn to deal with your flaws. Relationships should be complementary, not define you primarily. You are your own autonomous being with your own wants and needs. If someone fails to meet it, find someone else. Husbands and wives are replaceable. That is just facts as relationship are choices people choose to be in or not. You may want him, but it does not mean you will be happy or content. What you want is the past him that he may be no longer, and if he is, he chooses not to be that to you.He may not have been happy nor even if you never cheated, he could bnever be content with you. You could of been different from the person he first fell in love with.

If he wants a divorce, give it to him. If you want to be happy, work on yourself and be more self-aware.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. There is a lot of hurt between us for sure. We have both hurt each other and it was never intentional either. Neither of us set out to wound the other. I have learned that love must be intentional though. It's easy to fall into the everyday grind of kids, jobs, bills and exhaustion without realizing a marriage is slowly getting put on the back burner. We both lost our passion and we lost each other in the mix. We have had many years of wonderful times together though too. I pray I never ever forget the good memories of our lives together as time marches on. There were many I never want to forget.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper, 

Again, I'm going to speak to you as a sister in Christ, and as someone who has come through this. From what I can observe, your Rocket is somewhat similar to my own Dear Hubby in that he's a man of fewer words and tends to not gush with emotion. Now my Dear Hubby DOES feel emotion, he just doesn't let them flow out with his words, and as I read some of Rocket's posts, he seems to be cut from similar cloth--kind of logical and analytical. You and I seem to be cut from similar cloth too--naturally sympathetic and empathetic and emotional and overwhelmed by feelings, sometimes speaking before we think or acting before we've thought it through. But @Sofa Sleeper, I speak to you as living proof, and therefore hope, that you can be a better woman and wife, and it can be done. 

HOWEVER (and this is a HUGE however), in order to even begin this journey, one of the first things that has to happen is to fully accept that you and ONLY YOU are fully personally responsible for your own actions and your own choices. Rocket is responsible for his own things ("his side of the street") and I don't think anyone here is even saying those things did not occur. Some of the things you claim he did--well guess what? We weren't there so we can't tell if they did or did not occur NOR if they did occur, if it was exactly as you say! Even when we have both sides of "the story" we still were not in the room, so my way of operating is always to assume there is "His Side" "Her Side" and "The Truth" and both of you probably made yourself look a little better by minimizing your part, and maximizing your spouse's part. It's human nature--almost everyone does that! LOL But that in no way changes the fact that he is responsible for what he did and chose, and YOU are responsible for what you did and chose!

So if we look at you and your choices over a lifetime, I see that you have chosen to be unfaithful four times: once with SoundGuy in your former marriage, once with Rocket to start your current marriage, once with MethMan, and once with GuitarBoy. So just based on that fact alone, it seems as if you have a tendency to turn to infidelity whenever you "feel" disappointment, hurt, or loneliness. It's crystal clear that adultery is a poor coping technique! And despite the fact that you've been given "second chances"...you've still turned to cheating just like a dog returning to its vomit. This is CLEARLY the issue that you are going to have to work on in your IC. What is it, within you, that is so broken that you keep choosing to be unfaithful?

One of the biggest issues I think you may have is essentially having an incorrect or inaccurate view of "what marriage is." For example, are you aware that marriage is not "you getting your needs met"? It's not at all about YOU having love for a lifetime or feeling gushy for the rest of your life or having sex you want any time you want it or having someone who completes you and is your soulmate--those are actually all lies that are perpetuated by movies and the world/society! It's also 100% "YOU-centered." In real life, marriage is a commitment...and it is all about YOU committing to act in a loving way toward your spouse as long as you are alive. See the difference? It's exactly the opposite of the way you've been thinking about it!! Marriage means that YOU make a promise, that you will learn what means love to your spouse, and YOU will meet their needs, and YOU will put what you learn into ACTION and treat them in a loving way! It's 100% "spouse-centered" (or just to be clear, in order to not slip into co-dependency, it's where you discipline yourself to become the type of individual who stays yourself but learns how to meet your spouse's needs as your own true self).

Now if the meaning of marriage is you meeting your spouse's needs, can you see how adultery is 100% incompatible with that? Adultery is also 100% "you-centered." You are breaking your promise to spend your lifetime loving your spouse. You are neither thinking or acting in a loving way toward the one to whom it's due...your spouse. You are not learning what love means to your spouse...but rather someone else. You are not meeting your spouses's needs. And you are acting in an unloving and hurtful way toward the one to whom you made a promise! Adultery is absolutely irreconcilable with marriage. 

So here's my thought. You wish people here were less harsh with you and "gave you hope" and I do get that. In order to not fall into a pit of depression and self-deprecation hope is needed. But we also respect you enough to tell you the real truth rather than tickle your ears with falsehoods you want to hear. I do not know if your marriage is recoverable. As I told your husband, our God is a God of miracles, and He is the ONLY one who can completely change a person's heart. But @Sofa Sleeper, when God does change a person's heart from loving sin to loathing it, then there is an accompanying difference in the way a person thinks and acts. It makes sense--if my interior way of viewing things and thinking is different (that's what change means..."not the same"), the my exterior way of reacting and acting would also be different. So far, I haven't seen that change demonstrated in you. Now I don't live with you, so I get it--I don't see how you live, act, or talk moment-by-moment. But I do see what's going on here on the site, and that is at minimum a clue or an insight into what is going on overall. Right? 

Thus, that would be my strong recommendation to you. God often allots a time of grief and sorrow and pain to us (his people) in order for us to grow more god-like. And the way you grow more god-like would be to get your thoughts in alignment with His thoughts, and act the way He's told us He wants his people to act. If I claim out loud to be a Christian, I am aware that those who have been hurt by Christians are going to be VERY closely watching and critiquing both my words and my actions, and thus my job is to be an example, both in the way I speak and write, and in the way I live! I don't think you're quite there yet. So for now, I agree with the others that it would be wisest to put your focus on your IC and really delving into WHY you keep turning to adultery, and fix that. That is the primary point I believe you need to work on. And the work is going to be uncomfortable and difficult, but if you want to be the woman God wants you to be, you need to persevere through the pain. While you work on yourself and honestly addressing your issues, I would say that the ball is in Rocket's court to decide if he will or will not divorce, and you need to accept that he 100% has the moral OPTION to choose to divorce without pressure from you. HE would not be the one killing the marriage--it is already dead! He would just be choosing to make the legal status match the moral status (which is: DEAD). 

If he does choose to file for divorce, I want you to bear in mind that your life, as a dearly beloved daughter of the Most High God, still goes on. He will still teach you and be in your life. If you will learn from this and grow spiritually, then He will still bless you in ways you can't think of right now. If you are stubborn and "harden your neck" and refuse to hear the truth or grow, then chances increase that you will repeat this pattern over and over. So in some way can you see? Yes, this group here is pretty hard on people, but we do it out of love to give you a kick in the butt so you don't keep repeating this pattern. THIS marriage may be over and you may not be able to revive it, but you'd still have a future, and no matter what, you don't want to keep doing this to yourself.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you so much for that. We have uncovered in IC why my coping mechanism has been seeking attention outside of my marriage. It's been a very painful discovery. One I truly contemplated ending my life over. Uncovering it made me angry...probably the angriest I have ever been (and I am not an angry person by nature) and caused me to lash out at my mother who has been the source of my feelings of not being enough and being unwanted since I was little. She was very hard on me as a litttle girl. Physically abusive. Verbally abusive. She didnt demonstrate love or concern for me only displeasure that I'd not done something right even though I had tried so hard to meet her expectations. I wanted to run away so many times to escape those feelings. Several years ago my mom wrote me a letter saying she had hated me growing up. HATED. That's a very strong word. She said she was trying to raise a perfect child and I failed her. How's that for making ya feel good about yourself? So when those feelings rise up in me and I feel like I'm not enough and not good enough, I run. I try to escape those feelings. Self sabotage. Anyway the discovery of the source of trauma in my life brought about intense feelings of anger and rage towards my mother. Ive since released those though. 

Anyway, I'm recovering little by little. I see progress everyday. Before I had a "need" even to feel or look pretty and lately I've learned to love myself and be comfortable in my own skin. I only doll up when I'm gonna see Rocket lol. I am learning to love myself and be proud of myself even in little victories. I determined to stop smoking because I wanted to see a small victory in my life and make a positive change and I'm happy to say that today is day 6 without a cigarette cold turkey. Whew!!

I know my grievances towards my husband are astronomical and deserve punishment and consequence. I am trying to be able to say "It is well with my soul".


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## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> This will be my last post.
> 
> You guys sit around and lash out at a woman that is gravely broken and contrite over her sins and the damage and hurt she has caused her broken husband. Humility? You've not seen me. You do NOT KNOW ME. You don't live with me. You do not see the utter brokenness and gut wrenching wails that come out of me every single night after I've tucked our babies in bed and have tried my hardest to hold myself together all day long in front of them only to crumble and fall on my face before God on our back porch begging God to heal my HUSBAND'S heart from the pain I inflicted on him. I don't have to tell you any of that though. Yes, I have every right to defend my marriage. My mistakes? No way. But my husband and our family and our marriage? You better believe it. You also don't read the email and text message exchanges between my husband and I. I HAVE told him that I was letting him go and setting him free and I hoped he finds happiness whether that is with or without me. But you don't know that because you don't know the whole picture and he and I don't have to tell you all of our personal business. It's OUR life. OUR marriage. OUR future.
> 
> People can change and do change and life is what you make it. I'm reminded of the story of two men inprisoned, "Two men looked through the bars. One saw mud, one saw stars". Change your focus and perspective and you'll change your life.
> 
> I pray one day when your family or marriage is in trouble (and I hope it really never is) that God places someone in your life that speaks words of healing, life, and hope to you. I hope someone tells you to fight for your marriage and I hope you succeed.
> 
> 
> Rocket, I love you, baby. I miss you.


And even at 'the end,' you try to use this forum to get what YOU want. I don't think I've even heard you say you know what HE wants (aside from being in a truly special relationship so you belong together) or needs. 

I tried to help you, here and privately. But you're an A personality or a narcissist, I'm not sure which, and you've never lived in a world where YOUR needs matter less than another's. And that's true love, ok? Wanting the OTHER person's happiness more than your own. 

As long as you keep fighting to get what YOU want instead of what ROCKET wants, you will never deserve him.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Turnera, I apologized for that post in a post. You may not have seen it. I don't know how to include it in this post. Im sorry.

I'm "getting it". I'm trying. I am. I'm not a narcissist though that's for sure. I know one though (and no, it is definitely not Rocket lol) Also, the world does not revolve around me nor has it ever. I have 7 kids. You don't get to even pee in private or shower in private. Lol My world has revolved around them most of my adult life....my oldest is 21 then the rest are 17, 15, 8, 6, 4, and 3. 

Thanks for caring though about me and about Rocket. We met for coffee tonight. I'm on a path of self discovery as is he. 

And this Sofa Sleeper may actually attempt to sleep in our bed tonight. I haven't alone since we separated, but I think I'm gonna try it tonight. Have a good night.


----------



## StillSearching

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Turnera, I apologized for that post in a post. You may not have seen it. I don't know how to include it in this post. Im sorry.
> 
> I'm "getting it". I'm trying. I am.* I'm not a narcissist though that's for sure*. I know one though (and no, it is definitely not Rocket lol) Also, the world does not revolve around me nor has it ever. I have 7 kids. You don't get to even pee in private or shower in private. Lol My world has revolved around them most of my adult life....my oldest is 21 then the rest are 17, 15, 8, 6, 4, and 3.
> 
> Thanks for caring though about me and about Rocket. We met for coffee tonight. I'm on a path of self discovery as is he.
> 
> And this Sofa Sleeper may actually attempt to sleep in our bed tonight. I haven't alone since we separated, but I think I'm gonna try it tonight. Have a good night.


Anyone having an affair is doing it for narcissistic reasons.
I can't think of anything more selfish.


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## Taxman

Sofa Sleeper, all due respect. I hear a lot of regret in your posts, but not a lot of remorse. You still do not understand the pain you have caused. I hope that Rocket gives you something to feel pain over. I believe that he will move on from you. He will find a BETTER woman than you. He will find someone that does not need her ego fed with kind words and hard penises from strangers. How in the name of all that is holy, do you expect to be forgiven for this? Ask yourself this question; what would you do if he were the one having affair after affair? How would you feel if the one that pledged to be faithful to you had his penis in strange women's mouths. How would you feel if he says loving things to people that aren't you? How would you feel knowing he gave you sloppy seconds? You deserve to lose him forever. That will be your consequence; total loss.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I'm fully aware of consequences. I just may lose him. I know that.


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## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I'm fully aware of consequences. I just may lose him. I know that.


Sofa Sleeper, I truly believe that there is no-one beyond redemption and I do believe you are 'getting it.' You will receive more 2x4's here, take them, learn from them and do not just hear, but be a doer too. I feel sorry for 7 kids (wow!). 
You take one day at a time, learn from this, accept the consequences and grow, day by day and vow never ever to cross those kind of lines again, whether you stay married or not to Rocket. You cannot find happiness in anyone else, only in you and with God's grace you can move on.


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## michzz

OK, so I've been trying to read through this whole thread and your husband's thread too, and I ended up skimming.

The only thing I have to add is a comment about religion and getting over an affair.

You do something that my my ex-wife did, and i get it that religious Christians do this. But this "thing" is totally unsatisfactory to loyal spouses.

You tell your spouse that God has forgiven you so your spouse has to be accepting that as "proof" of getting beyond cheating.

Sure, you can make the case that the marriage if made in a church that the offense was against something holy, therefore against God.

BUT it really does nothing for the offended spouse. Why? Because the offense is against them! And words are easy. God forgives me, end of story! poof!

It's like magic pixie dust sprinkled and everything is great?

Nope, nada, no.

So after the Godly forgiveness there has to be a ton of work, transparency, explanation, and no blame shifting. Holding a spouse to standard that they gotta forgive because God did is really a form of manipulation.

At least in my opinion.

People can quote biblical passages all they want to on the subject, but it is a personal offense that has to be mitigated by the offender in more than a spiritual way.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Aine,
Thank you for that. I listen to K-Love radio station and the song "Clean" by Natalie Grant speaks of that redemption. There's a line in the song that brings me to tears every time the song comes on. It's "there's nothing too dirty, that He can't make worthy". 

I'm doing my best with what I have. I wish I had more free time to delve into more personal recovery (books, etc) but the kids take up so much of my time and energy that it's difficult to do what I need for me without feeling guilty like I'm ignoring the kids. The addition of my new "depression" diagnosis has made life a lot more challenging as well. Finding the "want to" to want to do anything is especially hard right now...and that's not like me at all. I've only been on antidepressants for one week now though and I know it takes some time to kick in and start helping. Taking care of me is a very new concept because I've been taking care of everyone else for 21 years. I'm learning nevertheless little by little.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Michzz,
I can see what you're saying. The personal forgiveness from God though is for me, not my husband. My husband has his own free will to forgive or not. 

Seeking forgiveness from God though frees me of shame and guilt which, if you think about it, is a form of pride in itself. It's the "woe is me" mentality. Knowing I'm still loved by the One who made me and resting in His grace is very comforting and brings healing. God hates the sin, not the sinner. My life isn't doomed because of my sinful choices. Quite the contrary...I can learn from these grievances and come out a way better person. It doesn't excuse my actions or eliminate the consequences, but the mercy from God allows me to see myself through His eyes...as loved, redeemed and treasured.


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## StillSearching

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Michzz,
> I can see what you're saying. The personal forgiveness from God though is for me, not my husband. My husband has his own free will to forgive or not.
> 
> Seeking forgiveness from God though frees me of shame and guilt which, if you think about it, is a form of pride in itself. It's the "woe is me" mentality. Knowing I'm still loved by the One who made me and resting in His grace is very comforting and brings healing. God hates the sin, not the sinner. My life isn't doomed because of my sinful choices. Quite the contrary...I can learn from these grievances and come out a way better person. It doesn't excuse my actions or eliminate the consequences, but the mercy from God allows me to see myself through His eyes...as loved, redeemed and treasured.


You have to be the best wife you can be regardless of anything Rocket does.
If he comes back, you better be 100% a different person or he's long gone.


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## Rocky Mountain Yeti

This whole concept of forgiveness, divine or otherwise, is far more limited in relief than most, especially wayward, care to admit.

God, through his grace, forgives the repentant, which means the sinner is no longer condemned to eternal damnation.

If the betrayed also forgives those who trespassed against him, that means he seeks no vengeance, nor does he desire the trespasser burn in hell. He may even be enlightened to the point he harbors no ill will whatsoever..,

but...

that doesn't mean he can forget. Even if he forgives as Jesus commands, that doesn't mean he'll be willing to expose himself in that way ever again, or that if he does, he could do so comfortably. A bridge has been burned which can never be rebuilt to its original specifications or strength.

Such is the irreversible nature of I fidelity and the limitation of "forgiveness."


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## StillSearching

Remember if you reconcile your marriage will never be the same. 
It has been tainted. I know for a fact.


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## Taxman

StillSearching said:


> Remember if you reconcile your marriage will never be the same.
> It has been tainted. I know for a fact.


Problem is that Sofa Sleeper was the one who tainted the marriage and would be happier than hell if she could just rugsweep this one. It is that taint that will have Rocket find a new relationship. One believes that she should resign herself to a life without him.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Stillsearching,
I know. But if we were to reconcile, I think it's safe to say neither of us would want the same marriage. We would both be in better places as individuals and would build again from ground zero to build something better.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Stillsearching,
> I know. But if we were to reconcile, I think it's safe to say neither of us would want the same marriage. We would both be in better places as individuals and would build again from ground zero to build something better.


You'd be having to deal with his triggers, mixed emotions, anger and sadness, wanting to leave and regretting staying, never trusting you again. 
It will be constant up and down for years if not forever. You can't get around that part. It sounds nice to build a better marriage from the ground up but it doesn't really work that way. There is always resentment from the past. 
Your own will come up too. If he stops spending time with you again, stops giving you any affection and attention. Years down the line when you want the affair stuff done with and you're feeling neglected. 

People and relationships don't typically change much. You can have sudden bursts of effort that make a difference but eventually most people go back to their comfort zone and now they were.


----------



## aine

michzz said:


> OK, so I've been trying to read through this whole thread and your husband's thread too, and I ended up skimming.
> 
> The only thing I have to add is a comment about religion and getting over an affair.
> 
> You do something that my my ex-wife did, and i get it that religious Christians do this. But this "thing" is totally unsatisfactory to loyal spouses.
> 
> You tell your spouse that God has forgiven you so your spouse has to be accepting that as "proof" of getting beyond cheating.
> 
> Sure, you can make the case that the marriage if made in a church that the offense was against something holy, therefore against God.
> 
> BUT it really does nothing for the offended spouse. Why? Because the offense is against them! And words are easy. God forgives me, end of story! poof!
> 
> It's like magic pixie dust sprinkled and everything is great?
> 
> Nope, nada, no.
> 
> So after the Godly forgiveness there has to be a ton of work, transparency, explanation, and no blame shifting. Holding a spouse to standard that they gotta forgive because God did is really a form of manipulation.
> 
> At least in my opinion.
> 
> People can quote biblical passages all they want to on the subject, but it is a personal offense that has to be mitigated by the offender in more than a spiritual way.


And that is exactly why in the bible it is very clear that God gives a way out for the BS to divorce in the case of adultery. There is a difference between being forgiven and accepting consequences. There is also a different between forgiving someone, and letting them go. The Christian is called to forgive (in time, it is a process) but the Christian was not called to be a doormat, there will still be consequenves. So your understanding of the christian faith is incorrect.
A BS can forgive (which is important for their own recovery) but that does not mean there will be no consequences and they may still leave the marriage.


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## TX-SC

There's not much you can do that TAM would agree with. If you tell us how horrible a person you are, you'll be accused of "talking all about you." If you focus strictly on the pain Rocket feels, you'll be accused of not focusing enough on you. I really highly advise the both of you to avoid the negativity for a while. Concentrate on healing and bettering yourself and, potentially, your marriage. Stay away from negative influences and work on making this marriage work. Again, that's only if both of you decide to do so. 

If he Rs with you, he needs to forgive. With time, that pain and the triggers can be lessened and he can trust you again. You honestly don't have a great track record at this point, so you'll have to almost completely change who you are and how you think/react.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you TX. I appreciate your positive outlook. Negativity sucks the life out of you and leaves you feeling defeated before you even start. 

That's our game plan...to become the best individually as we can. I have lots of work to do. One day at a time. I can only strive to better today than I was the day before. I'm making positive changes and so is Rocket. If we are fortunate enough to reconcile, we will be better...and better for each other and better together. 

I have a best friend that is honest and real and doesn't just tell me what I want to hear. She never has. She is my support in this and believes in me and in Rocket. I'm thankful for those who love you enough to be honest with you, but love you enough to not let you stay where you are. I have much to be grateful for even in the midst of sadness. I have 7 children that are healthy, bright and so beautiful, friends that love me, a host of people praying for me and for Rocket, and a husband that still genuinely loves me. I'm lucky. I'm counting my blessings today.


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## oneMOreguy

StillSearching said:


> Anyone having an affair is doing it for narcissistic reasons.
> I can't think of anything more selfish.


Is this truly the same thing? I had pictured narcissists as thinking highly of themselves in relation to others. Many cheaters imho think poorly of themselves, but yes, selfish in how they treat their family.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## oneMOreguy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you TX. I appreciate your positive outlook. Negativity sucks the life out of you and leaves you feeling defeated before you even start.
> 
> That's our game plan...to become the best individually as we can. I have lots of work to do. One day at a time. I can only strive to better today than I was the day before. I'm making positive changes and so is Rocket. If we are fortunate enough to reconcile, we will be better...and better for each other and better together.
> 
> I have a best friend that is honest and real and doesn't just tell me what I want to hear. She never has. She is my support in this and believes in me and in Rocket. I'm thankful for those who love you enough to be honest with you, but love you enough to not let you stay where you are. I have much to be grateful for even in the midst of sadness. I have 7 children that are healthy, bright and so beautiful, friends that love me, a host of people praying for me and for Rocket, and a husband that still genuinely loves me. I'm lucky. I'm counting my blessings today.


Please be focusing a ton of your attention on helping your spouse recover, more than just making him feel good temporarily .....will be a tough job with a large family and your own therapy. Remember, reconciliation is a path or journey, no final destination. You may be dealing with this until salvation calls. Not worth it unless both commit fully. 

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## Stang197

I just read both threads and once again another horrible end to a marriage. I really feel bad for both people. Its amazing how similar all of these stories are. I'm getting to the point where it seems like I could complete their sentences for them. 
Everybody thinks they are so special and their marriage is completely unique. I wish someone could come up with a marriage program to guide people before they completely destroy their lives and the lives of their kids. Truly horrible. 
The OP here really feels she was neglected and probably so. Her STBEH feels like he did all he could to support his family and was completely burned. And most likely so. 
Who told these people that their spouse was the person who was going to make them happy? Why can't people be happy with what they have? What makes people think that a new person is the answer to their problems? 
Why can't kids count on an intact family anymore? Why can't people divorce without hurting the children? 
So sad . My heart hurts for both if these people. Our sick society has lied to both of them and helped cause another family to be split apart and ruined. God I hope they can divorce amicably and save whatever peace their kids have left.
My only recommendation to the OP is to make sure all is known. Work on herself. Be super fair in the divorce and give it time. He might find that she acted so selflessly, even though the law will help further destroy this man if she wants. Maybe this could help him come around. 
I must say this is a long shot because he is probably going to have no problem finding someone else and it's hard enough to compete with a new woman ley alone trying to outclass a faithful lady.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper, 

I read an interesting article today: What It Means When a Narcissist Says ?I Love You? ? Brain Articles

It reminded me of you, and probably not for the reason you're thinking! I believe my exH was on the narcissistic spectrum but it wasn't a disorder. I believe my Dear Hubby's exW is a full-blown N (she'll never be diagnosed though, but based on years of observation my thought is NPD). But when I was reading this article, I can honestly say I didn't think this is you. 

I'm not saying you weren't selfish during your two affairs. I'm not saying you don't have a view of marriage that centers around you. You have some N tendencies--but seeing this article reminded me of that feeling of being someone's possession, only paraded out to make them look better... put on the shelf and expected to just "wait for them." 

Where I think you may learn something from this article is that it is clearly written by someone who was an N's partner. And it's my hope that by reading it, you might hear from someone outside your immediate circle who identifies how much it hurts to tirelessly try to alleviate the N-partner's pain, and endlessly make "them" the focus of your life and then finally realize that they will never do that FOR YOU. I can't say for sure, but I bet Rocket can identify with that feeling. 

So read it, take what good you can from it, learn what you can, and leave the rest.


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## JustTheFacts

Please answer these questions for me. Rocket glosses over it and won't elaborate. Just what exactly did his previous wife have to go through in terms of your affair with Rocket at the time? How long had the cheating been going on? How did she find out? How did she handle it? I doubt that you will answer but I had to give it a shot. Man, I would pay to hear her story.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Hey y'all, after a good night's sleep (finally) and some clarity, I am walking away from TAM to care for my self and my children. I have only been here a short time, but it's taking up too much of my time that belongs to my children. I let go of all social media two months ago and this feels like another time consumer like that. I appreciate all of the advice you've given. You have helped to set me on a path of acceptance. I'm simply letting go of the drama and moving into a place of healing and peace....for myself and for my children.


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## TX-SC

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Hey y'all, after a good night's sleep (finally) and some clarity, I am walking away from TAM to care for my self and my children. I have only been here a short time, but it's taking up too much of my time that belongs to my children. I let go of all social media two months ago and this feels like another time consumer like that. I appreciate all of the advice you've given. You have helped to set me on a path of acceptance. I'm simply letting go of the drama and moving into a place of healing and peace....for myself and for my children.


Good luck to you both!


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Hey y'all, after a good night's sleep (finally) and some clarity, I am walking away from TAM to care for my self and my children. I have only been here a short time, but it's taking up too much of my time that belongs to my children. I let go of all social media two months ago and this feels like another time consumer like that. I appreciate all of the advice you've given. You have helped to set me on a path of acceptance. I'm simply letting go of the drama and moving into a place of healing and peace....for myself and for my children.





Sofa

I completely understand where you are coming from in that TAM can take too much time. On the flip side of that, I feel you could benefit from both former WS and BS. They can offer some real life expieriences that sometimes you can't get anywhere else. However I realize the choice is yours and I wish you the best of luck in your journey in life. God bless you and rocket.


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## farsidejunky

@Sofa Sleeper, the ball is in your court.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Hey all. I sincerely want to apologize for my lack of respect for your advice and help. I was stubborn and unteachable and wrong. I'm so sorry and am asking for genuine help. I realize I may get smacked around and that's ok. I have accepted my consequences and I'm doing all that I can to heal and recover and to be and become a woman of integrity in all things. I have been selfish, immature, lacked self control, have delved into self pity and have fed into my own insecurities instead of trying to conquer them. I am learning though and I really want to live a life of honesty, transparency, integrity and honor. I don't want my past poor choices to define my future and keep me in bondage. I know I am capable of true change and I am working daily towards that. 

I have let go completely of blame shifting, justification, excuses, deflection, excuses, and all of that immature nonsense. I did what I did because I chose it. Period. Terrible choices, yes. I wasn't in a trance or anything either. It was me. A very bad side of me, but it was me. I am horribly sorry for what I've done and sickened by my bad choices. I have hurt my husband, the one person I love more than anything, in the worst way. I traded real love for a fake substitute that didn't even resemble any inkling of love in any form. My husband did not deserve this. Nobody does. He is now paying for my choices as well and it is not fair. He is a good man with a good heart and I hate that he is suffering consequences of my selfish actions. I would do anything to be able to go back in time and re-choose and never have hurt my husband, our marriage and our sweet family. 

I'm just asking for some real help from those who would even want to help me after my bratty attitude earlier in my thread. Yes, I was a jerk. I want to be better. I want to better today than I was yesterday. I want to be the best woman I can be for myself and for my family. I want to be well, heathy and never return to the sick and damaging patterns of my past again. I want to establish lasting change and have the fruit of that change evident in every area of my life. 

Please help. Thank you.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa:

Can you give some insight into what your IC is telling you?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Sure can. He is helping me with codependency issues, fear of failure, and my deep rooted insecurity issues. He's telling me instead of ignoring my insecurities and fears, to allow them to surface so that I can deal with them in a healthy way instead of the way that I have handled them in the past. To acknowledge my weaknesses so that I can conquer them and no longer play the victim to them. He's really big on loving myself and is helping me to begin to even trust myself WITH myself. Recognizing patterns of behavior and then realizing "ok when I have felt like this before, I did THIS and obviously that has never worked out so don't go there!". He's also helping me with matters of integrity...honesty, transparency and honor. 

The way I was raised, we never sought help for anything. In fact, if you were having "issues", my family and our circle of friends just "prayed them away". Instead of recognizing that we needed help and counseling to overcome things. I am in no way discounting the power of change that can come from God (I do believe He helps us tremendously), but God also uses people. I am the first person in my family to ever seek therapy for my personal issues. I am also the first person in my family to admit I need help and to even be put on antidepressants (hugely frowned upon in my family). My dad committed suicide five years ago and could've greatly benefited from real help. I was taught that depression and "issues" like insecurity were demonic therefore if you were to seek help, you would be admitting you are being led by and jerked around by the devil. 

So, me seeking real help is a big thing for myself. I'm proud of myself for admitting I need help and for actually getting help. I wish I would have taken the initiative to get help a long time ago. I would've saved a ton of heartache.

One more thing: I have always believed in the fidelity and commitment of marriage so for me to screw up royally is a character flaw within myself. I lost my moral compass and did wrong even though I knew it was wrong and was against such behavior. I am working on that as well.


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## drifting on

SofaSleeper

Your first step in the recovery of yourself is to know and own your decisions. I have spoken with you in pm ways that you need to fix yourself to become a healthy person. I have seen your words in pm, I have seen your words in this thread, and for the first time in this thread have you shown humility. It is also what you have shown in your PM's, humility and shame for your choices and actions.

Some may come here and say that you are saying what we want to hear, another manipulation trick. But I am going to say that in our conversations on PM's I have seen this coming. Each pm you wrote you dropped your defensiveness and began to show humility and shame. I am hoping that others here see that you are trying to become the best person you can be. You are genuinely asking for help in having any hopes of saving your marriage. I applaud you for the route you are choosing, it is a most difficult route to take. 

Just because I have come here and posted this does not mean everyone will agree with my opinion. You still have hard work to do, but it is my hope that people come here to try to help you. It is easy to say you're manipulative, saying what we want to hear, and what have you shown with actions that you are trying to be the best you can. The fact is we won't see your actions, but rocket will. 

We all need to have 2X4's at times, but it is my hope that posters see this vulnerable post and try to help instead of bash. You could have chosen to stay away, instead you chose to return and try to better yourself here as well. I wish you the best of luck.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Drifting On,
Thank you. You've been real with me and honest with me in all of our pm's for awhile now and have really helped me so much. Thank you for the support you've shown me all along and for believing in me in spite of my past. I'm a work in progress. Growing and changing isn't a destination or a goal, it's a value. One that I am committed to living and walking in daily. 

Thank you again.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> SMy dad committed suicide five years ago and could've greatly benefited from real help. I was taught that depression and "issues" like insecurity were demonic therefore if you were to seek help, you would be admitting you are being led by and jerked around by the devil.


Sorry to hear this.



Sofa Sleeper said:


> One more thing: *I have always believed in the fidelity and commitment of marriage* so for me to screw up royally is a character flaw within myself. I lost my moral compass and did wrong even though I knew it was wrong and was against such behavior. I am working on that as well.


Here is where you start to lose me. 

When actions and words do not match, it is typically either an attempt at manipulation or a serious lack of introspection.

How can you say that when you and Rocket began as an affair?

As for the work in counseling, it sounds like the two of you are getting into the hard work. That is good.

Edit: Sofa, I am not asking this question rhetorically, nor to beat you up, nor to play "gotcha".

Of all the people we can lie to, we do the most damage when we lie to ourselves. Wanting something to be true does not make it so.


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## GusPolinski

Sofa Sleeper said:


> One more thing: I have always believed in the fidelity and commitment of marriage so for me to screw up royally is a character flaw within myself. I lost my moral compass and did wrong even though I knew it was wrong and was against such behavior. I am working on that as well.


What?

Haven't you cheated on two husbands? Cheated on the first with the second and then multiple times on the second?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Farside, I believe it, but didn't LIVE it. I ignored my beliefs, morals and values because I wanted what I wanted. 

I also am against abortion and have always been....however as a teenager, I had two of them. I knew it was wrong, but did it anyway. Not proud of any of this. Sigh.


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## Satya

Sofa, you're on the right path. Keep going and I agree with your counselor... You need to be honest about your fears and insecurities. Not to us here, but to yourself above all.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Gus, yes. I am guilty of that. My walk hasn't matched my talk or even what I do truly believe. I have had a problem and I needed help. I'm aware of that. I am getting help now. I don't want to be that woman anymore.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Satya, thank you.


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## farsidejunky

Paging @Affaircare.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Just sharing an article I just bookmarked after I read it. I have not lived with true integrity. I have lied and done some awful things. I'm getting on track though starting with my words matching my actions.
https://experiencelife.com/article/walking-your-talk-the-path-of-personal-integrity/


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

I think it's important that you realize you ARE someone who will easily cheat and stray. Consider it an addiction. You need to monitor yourself at all times to avoid it. No being alone with another man ever, no talking to other men ever no matter what it's about. Staying away from any social media platform that allows you to talk to men. Like an alcoholic needs to stay away from booze. You're never not an addict anymore. You are never not "that woman". It's a lifetime of keeping your walls up and staying away from any temptation because you are "that woman". Pretending not to be will be trouble down the road


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## Sofa Sleeper

I agree with you. I know what I'm capable of. I'm learning how to safeguard against these things and to be proactive. Just today a guy that is truly harmless that I haven't heard from in awhile sent me a text asking how I'm doing. My reply word for word was, "Hey there. Please don't take this personally because I have nothing against you whatsoever. I am not texting or messaging any men anymore. I have to establish some safe boundaries for myself as I walk forward in life. " 

I want boundaries. I want to be held accountable too. Defending and protecting myself (and my marriage) is more important to me than offending a friend. 

Why do we have to fall (throw ourselves, actually) to the bottom of a pit to learn this crap? Ughhh


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I agree with you. I know what I'm capable of. I'm learning how to safeguard against these things and to be proactive. Just today a guy that is truly harmless that I haven't heard from in awhile sent me a text asking how I'm doing. My reply word for word was, "Hey there. Please don't take this personally because I have nothing against you whatsoever. I am not texting or messaging any men anymore. I have to establish some safe boundaries for myself as I walk forward in life. "
> 
> I want boundaries. I want to be held accountable too. Defending and protecting myself (and my marriage) is more important to me than offending a friend.
> 
> Why do we have to fall (throw ourselves, actually) to the bottom of a pit to learn this crap? Ughhh


Because you wanted what was it the bottom of the pit. That simple. Like many things in life the bottom of the pit appeared one way, but when you got there, was something entirely different.

Have you read that Lynne Forrest article I sent to you yet? This post is an example of victim thinking.


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## Sofa Sleeper

You're right, Farside. Hindsight is 20/20. I'm not a victim in any of this, but I will admit I have played that card for sure. I did read the article and it made sense. I'm learning a lot these days. Sometimes it's an overload of info, but it's good stuff. I'm reading a book called The Confidence Gap that is really causing a shift in the way I view myself and the way I think and even process emotions and fear. 

I am aware that I am at risk for failure. That's why I am taking measures to stop this horrid behavior and these patterns and thoughts. One minute at a time...


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## Affaircare

So continuing on with the message several are mentioning here, one of the first areas to address is going to require work on your part: 

1) Determine what it is EXACTLY that you actually do believe...not what was taught to you and not what you think you "should" believe, but in your core self what do you sincerely believe?

2) Examine your thoughts and feelings NOW in comparison to what you say you believe, and get them into alignment. 

As we mentioned in our PMs together, you and I have so much in common! My parents also would never, under any circumstance, admit that they have an issue much less seek help for it (and they still don't). So that willingness to even admit a problem starts with our generation, and seeking help from outside people starts with our generation. But one of the hardest things when seeking help and doing the work is to actually peel back layers, and peel back layers...and peel back even MORE layers until you feel completely exposed. That is so scary! It's also very difficult to examine yourself and constantly check, "Am I lying to myself?" 

So you say you believe in fidelity and commitment to marriage, and I hear you. My guess is that you were taught it's sacred and biblical, etc. But how can you say you believe in fidelity if you do not know what 'faithfulness' means? What is fidelity? How would you define it? Same for commitment. What does 'commitment' mean? How does 'commitment' look like day-to-day? What is biblical commitment? Does the Bible have anything to say about the roles of husbands and wives. If so, don't look at "what the husband is supposed to do" but rather keep your focus on YOUR OWN side of the street! 

See....I think it's really true that in your head you thought something like "being faithful is good, and a spouse should be committed to their spouse" but what you may NOT have done is really DEFINE those things. And since you have stated you are a Christian, I would challenge you to also consider that as a believer, your driving motivation, even above and beyond your own marriage, would be "pleasing God." If that's true, then as you DEFINE things like faithfulness and commitment, you wouldn't just make it up within your mind, but rather you'd look in the Bible and see how HE defines it and then more and more move your thoughts and feelings into alignment with what HE wants. Make sense? [Now I'm not saying that's the way everyone would come up with definitions, but since she has claimed Chrisitianity, that's the method for someone who says they are a believer.]

So that may be a good starting point. If you believe one thing...and act a different way... how do you move your thoughts and feelings from where they are now to what you believe?


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare,

Yes, it absolutely makes sense. You talked about exposing ourselves in our pm's even...the "warts" lol. I have been a hypocrite. There's a wart for all to see. I've claimed to be a Christian, but that word even means "Christ-Like" and I have been farrrrr from Christ like. I've said one thing, done another. And done one thing and SAID another. All lies. The truth is I WANT to be Christ like. I want to exhibit REAL traits of humility, honor, integrity, honesty and commitment...not just cheapened or watered down or twisted versions of these things. 

I want to please God with my life. Here's another "wart" for ya...I have ridden on the coat tails of my parents walk with God instead of TRULY having my own personal walk with Him myself. As I'm peeling back more layers, I am becoming free-er. It's ok to be exposed. It's ok to be called out. I want the layers (scales) to be peeled away to make way for new growth. 

I appreciate you, lady!


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## Affaircare

farsidejunky said:


> Because you wanted what was it the bottom of the pit. That simple. Like many things in life the bottom of the pit appeared one way, but when you got there, was something entirely different.
> 
> Have you read that Lynne Forrest article I sent to you yet? This post is an example of victim thinking.


For me, one of the hardest "truths" about myself that I had to face was that I chose the bottom of the pit. 

So for example, I get it--my childhood wasn't great and I had weaknesses--but when I compared a marriage where I felt lonely, ugly and unwanted...to the dirt at the bottom of the pit where I got attention and felt wanted... I PURPOSELY CHOSE THE DIRT. That is to say, there was some part of me that chose what I felt was "best for me" at the time, and I wasn't a victim of the dirt! I also wasn't a victim of my childhood or "the past" either. 

It may not have felt "conscious" in the choosing, and yes I may have had a ***** in my armor that left me vulnerable, but that was MY JOB to identify the ***** and reinforce it. Choosing to ignore the *****, or choosing to not reinforce it is also a choice!!


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## Sofa Sleeper

Yep! Same. I chose the dirt at the bottom of the pit. I am responsible for it. No excuses.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Totally unrelated but, is this site glitchy often? I'm having trouble when I try to type, it isn't letting me and it's jumping all around.


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## Affaircare

It can be glitchy but the cure is to add Adblocker for your browser. For example, I look at TAM via Chrome and Firefox, and I have added the Adblocker add-on for both browsers.


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## farsidejunky

It can be. Ad blockers are your friend in this place.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Ahh gotcha. Ok thanks. I'm just using my iPhone. That's probably part of it.


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## drifting on

Sofa

My pm box is no longer full, sorry that you were unable to contact.


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## turnera

Sofa, you're finally getting what we tried to tell you. I'm proud of you. Now make it happen.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you, Turnera.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper, 

I liked the article you shared: https://experiencelife.com/article/walking-your-talk-the-path-of-personal-integrity/ 

Now here's the challenge. See if you can catch yourself during the day telling "little lies" and by these I mean the kind where you leave a false impression, where you put up a false front, where you think or feel A and say out loud 'Oh no, not A' or 'B' and then justify it to yourself. 

Very often people will tell themselves something like this: "Oh well it would hurt him/her to find out ___ so I just won't mention it" or "If I told him/her what I really think, they couldn't handle it and would flip out" or something along those lines. But in real life, it would be MUCH MORE HURTFUL to find out from a stranger that thing you didn't mention... or if they are told what you really think by a mutual friend, that they would indeed be angry at you for acting badly and you were just trying to avoid confrontation! In even very small things, people will think of reasons to lie, and one of our challenges--those of us who were unfaithful--is to go WAY, WAY out of our comfort zone, and be truthful in all things. 

Now, I'm not saying if he looks fat in those jeans that you say "Yeah babe, you look fat in those!" because that's heartless. But I am saying be honest: "Dear I like the way you look in the other pair better, they hang off your butt better. This pair is not your best pair." Okay--it's not a compliment I get that, and it may hurt a little to hear this isn't his best pair of jeans, but do you think he wants to go out in a pair of jeans that make him look like he's got a muffin top without some warning? Get a pair that fits less tightly and muffin-top look is diminished! Be honest. 

More importantly though would be to speak to your spouse with the respect of saying, "The truth may give you a twinge of pain, but I have faith in you that you can handle the truth and respond in a mature way to reality." If you lie, even about little things like not having $5 left, then you are in essence saying: "I don't believe in you. I don't believe you can handle what I really think and feel, and I don't believe you are mature enough to deal with reality in a healthy way." That is HORRIBLE to say to your spouse, but your actions are exactly saying that if you don't tell the truth in EVERYTHING. 

This is why I recommend telling the children in age-appropriate ways what is going on and why. Their lives are affected. They're not idiots--they know something is up! But they will think both parents are undependable if you lie to them and don't let them deal with reality. When they are young, you can teach them the tools to deal with hard truths; when they are older you can give them a safe place to honestly wrestle with their own beliefs that will very likely differ from your own! 

So for now--catch yourself doing it: the little white lies...slight misdirections...false impressions that you justify "not correcting". If you can catch yourself AS IT HAPPENS then the next step will be to talk yourself out of it. It will feel unnatural, but that's okay--the natural man is sinful and we are striving to be more Christ-like.


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare, that's exactly what I've been working on. My IC has me doing this too. The crazy thing is once you start this, you start noticing the little white lies or half truths or exaggerated stories from others too....like your KIDS! It's like once you buy a certain model vehicle, you start noticing the others just like it on the road that you never paid attention to before lol. Seriously though, because I want to be truthful in ALL things, it means no excuses to the office lady for why my kid was really tardy for school, etc. No fudging the truth at all. 

Thanks again for your comment  It's confirmation that I'm on the right path.


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## drifting on

I'm going to take a risk here, but I truly believe you are disgusted with how you lived your life. You can't get this time back as you know, but the opportunity is endless to more then reclaim who you are. You have nowhere else to turn, nowhere else to fall to, this is your rock bottom. Everything you have done wrong is exposed fo all to see, yet it's not your defining moment. That time has yet to come. 

You have a real and honest chance to change into someone YOU are happy with. With those changes come opportunities to be the best you can be, this opportunity has no limits. Your slate is dirty, but you can clean it and become an amazing person. This all falls on you, nobody else, and I believe you have the strength to do this. 

Many times I was amazed as my wife changed before my eyes. I hated what she did, but she made it so I couldn't hate her by changing. Before my eyes I saw the most disgusting of behavior change into her being an angel. I love my wife with all of my heart, I trust her at about 90 percent, and she has become my best friend, again. If you work hard Sofa, as my wife did, you can make it to be an amazing person worthy of all the good in life. My wife made it very difficult for me to divorce her, because she became what I wanted in a spouse. My wife works hard to this day to continue to be what I want, what I desire from a spouse. 

I see so many people who never get that second chance. Some pass away from drugs, accidents, murders, and so on, so don't take this chance in life lightly. Work hard to be the best you can be, help others, live your life according to Gods will, and you will succeed. Although rocket has not offered you reconciliation, that doesn't mean he hasn't either. Focus on the positives, work hard on the negatives, and become the best. I will offer you support, I'm the recipient of a person who has changed into the best she can be, and you can do this. God bless.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I was replying to your post Drifting On but it has disappeared now.


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I was replying to your post Drifting On but it has disappeared now.




I see my post disappeared, I also sent a pm to you. Not sure what has happened, I was kicked out of TAM and upon coming back it appears all I posted has disappeared.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Weird. I don't have a new pm from you either.


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy

Sofa you had mentioned a man texted you, though harmlessly. Any way you can change your number so you won't get anymore texts from the past?


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## drifting on

I'll rewrite both of them.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Slowly Going Crazy,
I'm certain I could change my phone number. I'll look into that today.


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## farsidejunky

Hey guys, please report technical difficulties to the admin team. They can't address it if they don't know there is a problem.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Drifting On, your post is back! Thank you for the words of encouragement. As you already know, I can only control myself and my choices, attitude, motives, my growth and my personal future. I know I am on the right path now. I have hit rock bottom, but I don't want to stay there and am willing to do the hard work of recovery...ongoing recovery. I want to become the angel for my Rocket that you speak of your wife being for you. I know I can be too. I want to love him forever more than anything. However, if I'm not given the gift of grace and reconciliation though, I know I will still come out of this a healthier person.


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## farsidejunky

Speaking as a Moderator:

While it is perfectly acceptable to point out inconsistencies or to call out things we believe to be untrue, it is not okay to insult other posters. Period.

This will be the only warning of this nature in this thread.


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## drifting on

farsidejunky said:


> Hey guys, please report technical difficulties to the admin team. They can't address it if they don't know there is a problem.




My bad.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Farside, you asked previously about my IC. Today was my weekly appointment. My counselor said he was pleased with my progress and said it was nice to see me "get it". I'm beginning to feel peace and no longer anxiety...I'm told that comes from acceptance and truth. 

Can you fill me in on the principled life you mentioned?


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## farsidejunky

Simple answer:

Identify that which is important, then apply it to your decisions.

Longer answer:

There is a book that is geared towards men but the fundamentals apply to either gender. It is called Hold On To Your N.U.T.'s (Non-negotiable Unalterable Terms).

Some examples of my N.U.T.'s:

*I will give truth with love no matter the risk or consequences

*I will be faithful to my partner, and expect the same from her

*I will honor God and lead my family to grow closer to Him

*I will carve out time for personal growth and fulfillment

There are a few more, but the idea is that you identify 5-7 things that should guide you in all of your decisions. They won't come over night. Mine took over a year to develop. 

Ultimately, they are promises you keep no matter what, because failing to do so makes the mirror uncomfortable. I would start with your faith.


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## farsidejunky

Oh, and Sofa? I still periodically fall short.

I still occasionally find myself in a white lie.

I sometimes struggle with sin, specifically lust (in my mind, not in action).

I sometimes neglect to push myself to grow, and become complacent.

The idea is to create a direction or azimuth based on those principles. If I stray just a bit, I am only a degree or two off, and it isn't hard to get back on course again. 

However, if I completely compromise my principles, my direction could literally be 180 degrees the wrong direction.

So, don't expect total perfection. That is impossible, yet it still needs to remain the ideal.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. I appreciate your response. Very good stuff. I know for myself in the past, it's been easy to just let the days pass by without being intentional with my thoughts, actions or even responses to others... more or less just getting through another day. My therapist and I talked about intentional living or purposeful living yesterday and paying attention (being alert) to live in integrity and taking ongoing steps towards it. I'm learning to "unhook" myself from negative thoughts and to shift my thoughts into positive ACTION.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Taxman said:


> Problem is that Sofa Sleeper was the one who tainted the marriage and would be happier than hell if she could just rugsweep this one.


Well...that's only _*partially*_ true.

This 'love story for the ages' is not quite the Disney story that dreams are made of. Seems they BOTH 'tainted' their marriage right from the get go. Their unholy union was BORNE from an affair - both were cheating on their respective spouses and BOTH left and divorced their spouses so they could have their 'happily ever after.'

These two are merely reaping what they sowed. You can't build anything solid from a cracked and toxic foundation.

And here I am yet again, having a difficult time choking up a tear for either one of them.


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare, Drifting On, Farside,

Although I'm consciously and deliberately trying to get a hold of my thoughts and emotions throughout the day, waves of sadness still wash over me here and there and my eyes start leaking. Am I failing when that happens? Do I let those moments happen or do I silence them within?


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## drifting on

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Well...that's only _*partially*_ true.
> 
> This 'love story for the ages' is not quite the Disney story that dreams are made of. Seems they BOTH 'tainted' their marriage right from the get go. Their unholy union was BORNE from an affair - both were cheating on their respective spouses and BOTH left and divorced their spouses so they could have their 'happily ever after.'
> 
> These two are merely reaping what they sowed. You can't build anything solid from a cracked and toxic foundation.
> 
> And here I am yet again, having a difficult time choking up a tear for either one of them.




When I first started posting on TAM I wasn't capable of writing a post such as this. I would have either not posted or maybe just said that both have reaped what they sowed. I have posted on both @rocket Skates76 and @Sofa Sleeper threads. What I have come to learn over the years and from these two posters, is that people are people. I have no place passing judgement on anyone, yet I do. I posted that I did not believe sofas timeline to rocket, but now I believe it's truth. I have spoken to sofa in pm that has allowed me to understand her as a person. We all have flaws, we aren't perfect, but rocket and sofa have made their marriage work until now. Both have work to do whether they divorce or reconcile, so they can become better people themselves. 

I have become better as I would not have posted much or nothing on either of these threads because of how their marriage started. Now I have asked both in PM's questions, questions to learn more about them and for them to reflect inward honestly. My goal is to help each of them to become better, become more healthy so they find peace and happiness alone or together. This marriage, because of how it started could be said it was built on quicksand, but then it wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. I've learned that people who cheat can change and become better people. Sofa has shown here that she came onto TAM thinking she could snow everyone into thinking she had excuses. She has now shown that she was wrong, she has learned, and is trying to become a better person. I think rocket is trying to become a better person as well. 

While I will not condone how this marriage started, I have noticed change in both rocket and sofa. If they choose to divorce I will support both of them, and if they choose to reconcile I will support both of them. They are both people who are actively trying to change to become better. How can that not be supported? Isn't that what all of us have wanted when we post on threads? Some people can't change, some are narcissists, and I've even seen sofa be called a narcissist. While I agree sofa is very good with words, she is and has been called out numerous times. In PM's I've gotten to know her better, I see how humble and destroyed she is. She no longer blame shifts, no longer manipulates, she is posting like I do, from the heart. Many times I'll post sarcastically, many times from my heart, and many times through anger. 

My point here, is that both of these people are trying to become better people. Both are trying to find their way in a very difficult time. I have changed to where I'm trying to support both of these posters, to find what is best for them to do. [MENTION=22119]@SheStillGotIt, I understand what you are saying completely, and hopefully by posting this both rocket and sofa understand completely.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> AffairCare, Drifting On, Farside,
> 
> Although I'm consciously and deliberately trying to get a hold of my thoughts and emotions throughout the day, waves of sadness still wash over me here and there and my eyes start leaking. Am I failing when that happens? Do I let those moments happen or do I silence them within?


Avoiding emotional pain is exactly what got you into deep water.

Let them happen. Experience all of the emotions, not just the ones that feel good. Allow the emotional pain to be a teaching moment for you.

Instead of coping by seeking out attention from other men, cope by finding healthy ways to soothe yourself. Exercise is one. Hobbies are another. Prayer is essential.

I deal with it by competing in Jiu-Jitsu. There's some pain involved, as well as inflicting pain. Some people see it is masochistic, but I find it to be very cleansing. 

If you stuff these emotions, they have a tendency to become malignant and grow.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Farside, I am somewhat confused I guess. What you said is true and I cannot disagree. The confusion comes because I'm being taught and told to control myself and focus on me to become healthy, so when the sadness and tears come, I feel like I'm failing and I don't want to fail. I want to be better than I was. I'll be truthful here when I say, the sadness is because I miss him. I miss us. It's a place of sorrow and deep loss. This hurts.

Edited to add that I did just have a moment in prayer with God where I surrendered myself to Him and asked for His peace to encompass me.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Farside, I am somewhat confused I guess. What you said is true and I cannot disagree. The confusion comes because I'm being taught and told to control myself and focus on me to become healthy, so when the sadness and tears come, I feel like I'm failing and I don't want to fail. I want to be better than I was. I'll be truthful here when I say, the sadness is because I miss him. I miss us. It's a place of sorrow and deep loss. This hurts.
> 
> Edited to add that I did just have a moment in prayer with God where I surrendered myself to Him and asked for His peace to encompass me.


You are confused because you are under the assumption that thoughts, feelings, and action all take place together. Each one has its own separate step in the process.

Your goal is to change how you think about how you feel, which will then lead to healthier actions.

The key to this is outcome independence. Remind yourself that no matter what happens, you will be okay. 

What if rocket leaves you? Yes you will be sad. Yes it will hurt. However, it will not be the end of everything.

I think I mentioned this earlier in your thread, but when you focus solely on the outcome, you have a tendency to do whatever is necessary to achieve that outcome. That sounds good on paper, but this is often the justification we use to compromise our principles. 

Imagine somebody absolutely determined to save their marriage...to a physically abusive spouse. 

Or more appropriately to your situation:

"I was in emotional pain, so I sought solace in another man."

Feeling better was the outcome. Look what you compromised in so doing.

Rather than focusing on the outcome, focus on the process. The process is making sure that your life is lived by the principles that matter to you.

If you do this, you will not necessarily get the outcome you want, but you will get the outcome that is best for you. There will be challenges. There will be disappointments. Often times we have to walk away from things we want that aren't good for us.

But ultimately, if we live in a principled fashion, we will reap what we sow. 

This quote summarizes it well:

"If you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change." 

- Wayne Dyer*


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## Sofa Sleeper

Ok. I'm understanding. I'm so trying to focus on the process as you've mentioned. It's very hard to not think of outcomes though. I want the two of us to pull through this together....to make it and to thrive together. That's no secret. I am working on me because I need work...that is also no secret. I've needed help for a long time and have been broken for a long time. Rocket leaving me would not be the end of the world, but I still don't want that to happen. I am just being honest. We do love each other still so much. We have four sweethearts of children that our love made. We have a life and a love together that I don't want to lose forever. I know 2x4's may smack me for saying that because people will say I should've thought of that before or that's what I now get....and you're right. Coming to the realization of everything though makes me very aware of what I stand to lose now...What I do not want to lose. I don't want to lose my husband. I want to be better for him and for me and for us and our little family. I want to be the best for all of them. I know I can be. 

I've said too much, I'm sure. I've flooded. Oh well. I'm just trying to be fully genuine with how I am feeling and where I am moment by moment and day by day. I spent time alone with Rocket yesterday and I've begun to tell him things even if they embarrass me or if they're uncomfortable, but I tell him because I want to be real with him. Yesterday, I told him that just like the saying goes, you don't know what you have until it's gone, and now I am finding myself falling in love with him even more. 

Smack away if you must.


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## turnera

There's nothing wrong with wanting your marriage back. But when you put getting your marriage back as your GOAL, you're doing the wrong thing. Put that in God's hands and just focus on getting to know yourself.


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## drifting on

Sofa

Letting these emotions and feelings out are exactly what you need to do. No, that is not failing if you cry, I can home many times to my wife crying uncontrollably while the boys napped. In my opinion, letting these emotions and feelings allow you to see what has happened, the damage caused. Let them flow out, oppressing your emotions cause so much to go wrong. 

Your goal for now is to become a healthy and better person. You are not ready to begin work on the marriage at this point. It's very basic steps that allow you to achieve your goals. Some goals have to be achieved before you achieve the final goal. Right now, it's yourself, that is the only goal that should be consuming most of your thoughts. Achieving that goal leads you to your next goal, one step closer to your ultimate goal, reconciliation. But first you need to show you are healthy.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Drifting On, I just made space in my inbox. Sorry about that.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Turnera,
Thank you. I'm trusting in God. It's all scary. I feel myself getting stronger and healthier each day though and that is progress for me that I can see for myself. I am laughing even once again and finding joy in even breathing again....I was not even wanting to breathe at all several weeks ago. It was a very dark place for me. I'm glad I've come through that. My children alone give me so much strength and motivation to get healthy and they don't even know they do. They are such gifts. They have life in their eyes and so much faith.


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## Affaircare

Sofa Sleeper said:


> AffairCare, Drifting On, Farside,
> 
> Although I'm consciously and deliberately trying to get a hold of my thoughts and emotions throughout the day, waves of sadness still wash over me here and there and my eyes start leaking. Am I failing when that happens? Do I let those moments happen or do I silence them within?


 @Sofa Sleeper

One of the lessons we learn as we are addressing the past, fears we avoided, and feelings we surpressed, is that in a way we think: "Hey I thought counseling was supposed to make me feel better! I feel WORSE! This hurts!" or something along that line. Some of the feelings we had that we never allowed ourselves to experience rise to the surface and then mix into what's going on currently and we're an emotional mess. 

So a portion of the waves and emotions is because you spent your life running away from them, and now you've stopped and here they all come!

Another lesson though, that is also deeply related, is that in our past, when we made choices that were personally unhealthy and harmful, what did we do? We felt "bad" or "sad" or "hurt" (insert emotions that don't feel good here)... and we ran away from them! We tried to cover them up with "being strong" or suppress them or deny them or cut them off with some sort of "feeling better." The lesson that is very hard to learn is that when an emotion comes that is not pleasant and not happy and not love or joy...we need to be honest that we are feeling it, and we need to not shrug it off and experience it! 

As an example, when I was growing up my parents taught me that being angry was sinful. Now of course, raging can cross that line into sin--so can anger expressed in abusive ways. But that wasn't what I learned! What I learned was that ANY FEELING OF ANGER was sinful and had to be shunned and suppressed. [SIDE NOTES: a) it's funny, isn't it, that my physical abuser could scream and beat me, but if I objected or felt angry for being beaten, I was the one sinning  b) did you notice how a controlling abuser could use that train of thought to keep you under their control?  ] Anyway, obviously I am a human being and I did feel anger...I just had no model for how to express it appropriately...I avoided it. I ran away from anger. And what happened is that I still felt and had anger within me, but since I never expressed it, it stayed inside and just festered. 

When I was in counseling and beginning to learn that it is okay to feel ... well anything really ... I was really afraid that if I let myself feel, there would be this explosion of emotion and I'd end up hurting myself, hurting others, or blowing my own mind. I sincerely felt and thought I would go insane with the intensity of what I knew was inside me. Better to leave something with that much force locked up, right? No. I needed to learn to not run away from emotions, but non-pleasant emotions especially! So my counselor and I agreed that I would let myself open that Pandora's box once, in the office, where no one would or could disturb us and we could ride out WHATEVER wave hit. 

You can tell, because I'm here, that it didn't kill me or drive me insane. It didn't last forever. I didn't become a monster because of how I hurt or how angry I was. What happened is that for once, I allowed myself to actually feel what I really did feel, and I didn't run away from it. I sat and experienced. it. 

This was REALLY beneficial to me when I was going through my divorce. Now I had married a non-Christian man, and I chose him because he was cute (so in other words, I chose poorly)...but I wanted my marriage! I didn't want to admit defeat! I did not want what God wanted...I wanted what **I** wanted (and I wanted my marriage). So I did something that I think many of the church-ladies would have wagged their tongues about: I GOT MAD AT GOD. I got mad at Him for taking away what I loved. I got mad at Him for requiring that of me. I got mad at Him for hurting me. I got MAD and I am not kidding you, envision Lt. Dan railing against the storm, and that was me railing against God! But you know what? That was real. I'm not proud I behaved that way, but I really, honestly felt that way! And I also just as honestly believed that my Creator wants an honest relationship with me, and thus to be my True Self, I had to be mad, and I had faith that He would understand and help me anchor more deeply in Him if I was at least honest. 
@Sofa Sleeper, it is vitally important that you allow yourself to feel the waves and to not run away from them. It is just as vitally important that you recognize that during "emotion phase" your intellectual side is less active and thus during high emotion is not a wise time to make decisions. But during "emotion phase" just sit feel them. They won't last forever. They may last longer than you like, but they will change or come to an end at some point. It is okay to just FEEL what you feel and be honest with yourself about it. 

I end with a great parable. When a metalsmith refines gold, do you know what he does? He takes the gold piece and puts it in the fire until the piece ENTIRELY LOSES ITS SHAPE and melts. Then he keeps it in the fire until the impurities are burned off and he can see his own face reflected in the liquid gold. That gold is purified! Then he takes the liquid gold and pours it into the new mold and makes it into something completely different. 

That is what you are going through right now. YOU are the piece of gold--a coin let's say--and God is the metalsmith. You are valuable as you are--you're gold! But you aren't pure, so He is refining you. In order to purify you, He has put you into the fire, and fire is painful. You are going to have to entirely lose your former shape--you aren't intended to be a coin anymore. There will be parts of your past identity that you lose! And God will keep you in the fire until He can see His own face reflected in you. Once He sees that, He will remake you into what He wants you to be, and that may be an earring and it may be a wedding ring. But you will be a NEW creation.


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## TX-SC

You are getting good advice here. I'm glad to see you are accepting your faults and working to fix them. I hope this all works out for you and Rocket.


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare, and now....more tears. That moved me. Thank you. 

Today I have allowed myself to feel it all. If I could sum it all up into one word, I believe it would be remorse. I know dwelling on everything doesn't change what has happened, but today I deeply felt things(and am feeling things) I haven't felt before. A heavy sadness has settled into my spirit today. A Godly sorrow? I am so sorry for what I've done. I'm terribly sorry for the pain I have caused my husband and our family...even his family. I'm just so so sorry. That word doesn't even seem sufficient enough for it.


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## KevinZX

Divorce isn't always the answer, but mostly it gets the attention on here because most who post here are at the end of their tethers, want to start again, but to read your story form the other side makes me think that a more balanced view should be the answer for you both, but as usual the other person might see the relationship totally differently. My wife and i see our 28 year marriage so differently it is frankly odd that their is so much we can't agree on, long marriages i suppose all talk the same language, indifference. I hope your husband will read your post and realise that all is not lost, he seems to be running from the marriage at some speed, i hope you can catch him.

Love and Peace aways

KevinZX


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you, Kevin.


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## knobcreek

I can only give my experience, but reconciliation isn't worth it after an affair. Take it as a life lesson and treat the next person a whole lot better. I live in a constant state of anxiety assuming my wife will cheat and blow the marriage up again, it's just not worth the worry in my opinion. 

Your husband would never view you the same either, you would want someone who viewed you as his precious wife and trusted you wholeheartedly, it will never be your husband no matter how long, or the steps you take to reconcile, once that bond is broken it doesn't come back. I'm not saying times can't be good or great if you reconcile, but it's always there and it's always at the back of your mind, the fairy-tale is destroyed so to speak, you gave yourself to another man and there's no reversing that.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I respect your opinion. I am sorry that that has been your experience. I have spoken with so many others that do not share that same sentiment though after reconciliation. I have very close personal friends even who have walked this out themselves and have rebuilt something truly beautiful and their situation looked dreadful (full blown affair) and even contained a revenge affair by the BS. The BS has even filed for divorce and was actively already involved with someone else and stopped the divorce the day it was to be finalized. They are doing so well now and follow a "code" so to
speak with each other that allows them both to feel safe. They've fallen in love with each other all over again too. Both of them have helped me so much in this. They love me and love Rocket and believe we both have what it takes to make it. Others who have reconciled from this site even have sent me encouraging messages of hope and are praying for us. My own IC has told me many stories of clients that have beat all odds and have successfully reconciled and are very happy now and are so glad they didn't go through with divorce. They are not happy infidelity struck their marriage, but they have a stronger, healthier and more intimate marriage AFTER it. 

I know sometimes it doesn't work. Those marriages that do though are glad that they tried though.


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## turnera

Now see, you're back to expecting to reconcile. In the blink of an eye. Slap yourself on the hand for me.

No offense, Sofa but I've been watching along thinking "she either had a come to Jesus meeting, or she figured out what we wanted to hear so that we'd still engage with her." I gave you the benefit of the doubt once you came back. Now I'm not so sure.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Oh I'm not expecting to at all. I'm actually accepting that it may not ever happen. I was simply replying to the other guy's comment about it being a flop to do so. I know it's not always a terrible thing.

I would love reconciliation and to be a couple and a family again, but that's not my choice. I can only worry about me and leave the rest up to God. I had a heavy day today. I'm up some and down some. I'm nowhere near perfect. I'm just trying to navigate this the best I can with what I've got.


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## turnera

You've exceeded your PMs so I'll say this here.

I don't see anything wrong with throwing yourself at his feet. In fact, that's what I tell betrayed spouses to look out for. Willingness to beg forgiveness is key to reconciliation. 

That said, if you're just doing it to get a reaction, shame on you. And it WILL catch up with you.

Honestly, this is just part of maturity. You say a LOT of things I remember spouting off when I was 16 or 17 - things I'd read, things I felt I was supposed to say, a lot of romance bull****. The years beyond that have taught me that there IS not 'should be' but only 'what I can make be.' Eventually, you'll figure that out.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Turnera, I'm not looking for any reaction. I just want to be genuine and pure in my actions. I can't control what anyone else does or does not do, but I can self check myself to make sure that the intentions of my heart are selfless and pure and I'm expecting nothing in return. 
Like I said in my pm, I am learning. I'm nowhere near perfect, but I'm striving to be so much better.


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## phillybeffandswiss

turnera said:


> There's nothing wrong with wanting your marriage back. But when you put getting your marriage back as your GOAL, you're doing the wrong thing. Put that in God's hands and just focus on getting to know yourself.


If only FTR could figure this out.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Daily check-in:

Today I truly apologized to Rocket. It was different than the times I've said "I'm sorry" before. It came from a different place within me. Something clicked within me yesterday.

I am not owed anything from him. I do not deserve to even have his love. I feel like a wretch even. 

I've spent the day today feeling a little more whole. The heavy remorse that I allowed myself to feel and wrestle with yesterday has changed me even since yesterday. It wasn't guilt or shame or regret as before. This was different. As I'm typing this, tears are even coming. I get it. I really get what I've done and I'm so sorry. I allowed myself to be put in Rocket's shoes yesterday and felt what he is feeling and has felt. It was gut wrenching. It IS gut wrenching. I felt the pain, the heartache, the anger, the betrayal, and the disappointment and it is horrible. My God, what have I done? I am so disappointed in myself. 

I know I don't have to post or share my personal business or my breakthrough moments with you all, but it is therapeutic for me to publicly confess and be open and transparent even though you're all strangers. I'm such a fool. I wanna be better. I wanna be whole. 

AffairCare, that refining process is happening. The fire is hot, but I will endure it because I want my life to be a changed and transformed one. 

I need a hug. Just being honest. 

Hope you all have a good day. Thank you for letting me be honest and for your words of truth and wisdom. I appreciate it. Thank you for letting me have a place although uncomfortable, to walk this journey and heal.


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## farsidejunky

Real growth...true growth...only occurs through discomfort.


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## Sofa Sleeper

It's happening. It sucks and is wonderful all at once.


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## LosingHim

There's nothing that feels wonderful when you're feeling remorse. You're not me, but I didn't eat for 9 straight days. I vomited everytime I put my toothbrush in my mouth. I didn't have to "let myself" feel the pain. I couldn't ESCAPE the pain. I'm 2 years next month from D-Day and there are STILL days I cry about what I did. I was borderline suicidal. You don't have to throw yourself on the sword to truly be remorseful, but when you're totally consumed by it, you'll know.

BTW, putting yourself in his shoes, letting yourself feel his pain? Total crock of crap. You'll never know the pain he's in until it happens to you. I'm now living being betrayed myself and it's unlike any pain I've ever experienced. My dog woke me up at 4 this morning with itchy ears. It took me until 530 to fall back asleep because I was sobbing from the pain that hit my chest like a Mac truck because I was sleep deprived and unable to control my emotions. 

You have no idea what he's feeling right now. It's awful.


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## Sofa Sleeper

LosingHim, feeling remorse does not feel wonderful at ALL. Knowing I am growing is the only positive I can find right now so I cling to that. I don't feel any need to defend what I've said, but I have lost 18 lbs now in 8 weeks. I'm 5'3" and weigh 104 lbs now. I still can't eat. I have to take sleeping pills to sleep and my choices torment me every day. When I spend time with him, I see the pain in his eyes and I wish I could take it all away. I know I cannot feel anything close to what he's feeling, but I allowed myself to feel what I could, even though I know it's not nearly the same.

I'm so sorry you are hurting as well. I really am.


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## MAJDEATH

OP, so let me get this straight. A younger guy in your band starts talking you up. Telling you that you are beautiful, talented, brilliant, etc. And for that he is granted a couple of BJs. I can see why you H might be upset and unable to R right away. It is a boundary issue and he is just protecting himself until such time he is convinced that you will maintain proper boundaries around members of the opposite sex. I went thru a similar situation with my fWW and some male co-workers (with the difference being that we were separated and I told her I didn't care if she did mess around), but it was a boundary issue nonetheless that she needed to correct for any chance of R.


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## aine

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Farside, I am somewhat confused I guess. What you said is true and I cannot disagree. The confusion comes because I'm being taught and told to control myself and focus on me to become healthy, so when the sadness and tears come, I feel like I'm failing and I don't want to fail. I want to be better than I was. I'll be truthful here when I say, the sadness is because I miss him. I miss us. It's a place of sorrow and deep loss. This hurts.
> 
> Edited to add that I did just have a moment in prayer with God where I surrendered myself to Him and asked for His peace to encompass me.


As a christian you should know that emotions come from God, He created them, including anger, sorrow, etc. What you have done to your marriage ought to create within you Godly sorrow and remorse. This will involve weeping buckets of tears and mourning. Pretending this is not what is going on inside of you is ridiculous, keeping a stiff upper lip is ridiculous, however, be aware that there is a difference between feeling sorry for your self and feeling sorry for the pain you have caused. Crying is therapeutic. 
Praying Christians who are burdened by something often weep and groan.
Remember the cycles of grief, you have to go through the pain to come out the other side, in that grief and pain there is molding process, it is like cauterizing a wound (it hurts but it is necessary). I get the sense that you really are not in touch with yourself, there is one self which you show the world and one self which is very confused.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Aine, you described it exactly as it is. My confusion was because I was being told to stop crying and to plow through.

The way you described the remorse and Godly sorrow with weeping buckets of tears and groaning is spot on. THAT is exactly what's going on with me. It's not a self pity cry or a woe is me cry either (I've had my selfish share of that already). This is different. 

As far as the inward confusion goes, I have been lost. It's more than confusion though. It's been a true feeling of being lost and not "belonging". I know much of that stems from my dad's suicide. He was a well known, well loved pastor. A man I admired and loved so much beyond just being my daddy. He and I were very much alike and I was so proud to be his daughter. Him checking out the way he did has affected me even though I have shown on the outside that I am "okay". I'm not. Everything I believed to be real my entire life vanished with a gunshot leaving me with emptiness and unanswered questions that I'll never get answered. There's unresolved junk there. More of which my IC and I are dealing with. 

Side note...it's 2:30 am and I am awake because I have all 4 of our kids in our Queen size bed with me. I'm getting beat up lol! I think I'm about to move to the sofa for the rest of the night.


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## drifting on

Sofa

I hope you read Losinghim's post several times. Her post isn't to be harsh, it's the hard reality of truth, and I think it came at a perfect time. Feeling your husbands pain is remorse, but I know you aren't fully there yet. This will come, it will hit you hard, and you will wonder how anyone could survive. I'm not being harsh on you here, I'm being nice to say that true remorse is still to come. 

While your empathy has increased you are able to begin to start to feel rockets pain. I assure you that Losinghim is correct in saying that you don't, and that until you feel infidelity yourself you will only feel about 10% of your husbands pain at best. This isn't anything you can control, all of our brains are wired to feel pain to a certain point, at that point the brain goes into self protection mode. Shock, disbelief, are just two ways a brain deflects the pain from beginning to much. The bible tells us that God will never give us more then we can handle. You should know I questioned this nearly every day for more then two years, so now you know what I feel about that in the bible. 

You are growing Sofa, you are delving into yourself to uncover the why of your behavior. It's painful at best, and while probably not described as wonderful, perhaps a better word would be liberating. It's a sense of freeing yourself from bad and replacing with good, that you are on the path in which you want to become. It takes time and hard work and comes at a slow pace, Losinghim opened herself to TAM and took so many 2X4's, it's a tribute to her character that she was strong enough to endure. 

Sofa, focus on your healing, your self reflecting, your becoming healthy and your reason is for you. You can't do this for your kids, you can't do this for rocket, true healing can only be done for you. You're doing well, you've come far from when you started here, and you still have quite the journey to go. Open your heart to being healthy, open your heart to the posts here, but mostly open your heart to yourself, learn to love yourself and you will then become what you are trying to achieve.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thanks Drifting On. The heaviness, remorse, Godly sorrow is intensifying and it's so much to bear. I feel sick in the pit of my stomach. I can't run from it. There is no escape from the ravaging of my soul right now. I can ask God for peace, but I think He is the one convicting me and bringing me into this place so I have to let it happen. I know I'll never fully feel what my Rocket feels. I know I wouldn't wish this on anyone. This sin destroys in the worst way possible. I have sinned against God, my husband and my own self. I have caused such horrible destruction and I feel unworthy to even be here. My poor husband. Oh my God.


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thanks Drifting On. The heaviness, remorse, Godly sorrow is intensifying and it's so much to bear. I feel sick in the pit of my stomach. I can't run from it. There is no escape from the ravaging of my soul right now. I can ask God for peace, but I think He is the one convicting me and bringing me into this place so I have to let it happen. I know I'll never fully feel what my Rocket feels. I know I wouldn't wish this on anyone. This sin destroys in the worst way possible. I have sinned against God, my husband and my own self. I have caused such horrible destruction and I feel unworthy to even be here. My poor husband. Oh my God.




Sofa

I watched my wife, I truly felt for her as true remorse came to her. A few times I actually became scared that she actually may die from crying, I contemplated calling 911. It's not easy for the betrayed spouse to watch this, your first instinct is to protect them, shield them from their pain. I wasn't a cruel person and just stood by, I did console her, I hugged her tightly, told her how good she was at various things. I truly felt for my wife, nobody deserved to go through what we had to. She told me her choices caused this, and in the pain she felt she would apologize to me still, she would wonder why I even stayed. Even when she felt crushing pain from her choices and actions, her actions showed she still felt for me. She didn't put herself first, her thoughts were on me and my well being. I know you feel for your kids and rocket, I know you are feeling crushing pain that takes your breath away, you must remain focused, let the pain run through you to become healthier. If you need anything I'm here for support. I have a feeling that you know this is going to get more difficult. Clear this hurdle, keep working on yourself.


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## Sofa Sleeper

How do I ever clear this hurdle? How do I ever not feel the heavy remorse? I don't even know what to do with it right now. There is no comfort. You were there with your wife. My husband is not here and that's my fault.


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> How do I ever clear this hurdle? How do I ever not feel the heavy remorse? I don't even know what to do with it right now. There is no comfort. You were there with your wife. My husband is not here and that's my fault.




Yes I was there for my wife, I extended both grace and forgiveness. Truthfully, I had never extended grace and forgiveness in this capacity before. It was all new terrain for me to tread. However, seeing her struggle with the pain of remorse made it so I could console her.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Early on, I'll never forget he held me as I wept and he said to me "rest your soul". What I would give for that right now. The gut wrenching excruciating sorrow makes me want to fall at his feet and beg for mercy. He doesn't ever have to extend that to me though and I know that.


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## turnera

Sofa Sleeper said:


> How do I ever clear this hurdle? How do I ever not feel the heavy remorse? I don't even know what to do with it right now. There is no comfort. You were there with your wife. My husband is not here and that's my fault.


You do it by making this the deciding point in your life. From here on in, you will live a God-like life. You will enjoy helping people, you will never lie again, you will always speak the truth, you will show patience and grace...basically you'll become a wonderful person to be around. And no matter what happens with Rocket, you'll be ok because you'll be walking with God.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you, Turnera. I needed that right now so thank you so much. I have separated myself from former friends that have been poor influences on me or have spoken poorly of my husband. I have one friend and she is my best friend...and this sounds weird to most people, but she is my 1st husband's new wife (they've been together 10 years +). She is fantastic and a huge support, but she lives in another state though. All of my family lives two states away and Rocket's family has pretty much disowned me. I feel so alone right now as I'm walking through this. It's part of the consequences though and I'm aware of that. So, thank you for what you just posted. God is my only strength. I know He has brought me to this place of repentance and I'm willing to be corrected by Him even though it is so painful.


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## drifting on

turnera said:


> You do it by making this the deciding point in your life. From here on in, you will live a God-like life. You will enjoy helping people, you will never lie again, you will always speak the truth, you will show patience and grace...basically you'll become a wonderful person to be around. And no matter what happens with Rocket, you'll be ok because you'll be walking with God.




QFT.

Keep this post with you by Turnera, this is how you get through. Open your heart to God, allow Him to help cleanse you. You will make it through this!!


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## Sofa Sleeper

I will. I don't deserve the kindness and support you guys are bestowing on me. It is not going unnoticed. I am very grateful and humbled by it. I cannot say thank you enough. I mean it. I am learning so much.


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I will. I don't deserve the kindness and support you guys are bestowing on me. It is not going unnoticed. I am very grateful and humbled by it. I cannot say thank you enough. I mean it. I am learning so much.




Sofa

I think at times we all deserve kindness, most everyone here is carrying pain of some sort. What makes TAM so good is that the posters in my opinion truly care. They also won't let you bull**** them, you will get called out each time. You have such good quality posters on your thread, real life expierience that you may not find in a therapist. I know you read the posts, you take what applies to you and learn. I encourage you to pm @LosingHim, she has been on both sides and in my opinion is a very good poster. Be warned, she will call you out in a heartbeat if she thinks your slinging shot to her. I also think she could help you very much.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Without going into details, I felt God (strongly) prompting me to do something today that scared me and was a big risk, but I knew I HAD to do it. Well, I was obedient and God honored my honesty and humility and extended SUCH GRACE to me. I am in awe of the love I've been shown today. 

Then in the car, this song came on and it was like it was played just for me. The lyrics were/are on point. I know today God did something big within me and it all came from that Godly sorrow He placed on me the past few days. I did the right thing...I made the right choice and it just feels really good. 

Anyway, here are the lyrics to the song I am talking about. It's by Lauren Daigle. Hope it encourages someone else like it has me.

Though times it seems
Like I'm coming undone
This walk can often feel lonely
No matter what until this race is won

I will stand my ground where hope can be found
I will stand my ground where hope can be found

Oh, O'Lord O'Lord I know You hear my cry
Your love is lifting me above all the lies
No matter what I face this I know in time
You'll take all that is wrong and make it right
You'll take all that is wrong and make it right

Your strength is found
At the end of my road
Your grace it reaches to the hurting
Still through the tears and the questioning why

I will stand my ground where hope can be found
I will stand my ground where hope can be found

Oh, O'Lord O'Lord I know You hear my cry
Your love is lifting me above all the lies
No matter what I face This I know in time
You'll take all that is wrong and make it right
You'll take all that is wrong and make it right


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## farsidejunky

I saw her, along with Jesus Culture and Elevation Worship in Nashville back in summer. Her voice is amazing.

What did He lay on to your heart to do?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Farside,

I work for a church leading worship on Sunday mornings. I've only been there since June. The pastor, my boss, has known me for many years though. I worked for him at another church in another city many years ago. As fate would have it, he took a pastoral position at a church in the city we live in now and asked me to be his worship leader again. When the Godly sorrow came over me so strongly this week, one of the things I felt compelled to do was to come clean to the pastor and his wife. They know Rocket and I are separated, but they don't know why and when it all blew up a couple months back, I covered my tail even with the pastor and made it look like Rocket had left because he just didn't want to be married anymore. Lies, I know. I was afraid of losing my reputation and income which is what is keeping me and the kids afloat right now. Anyway, yesterday after church i knew I was supposed to talk to them. I started walking to my car to leave even and I felt God tell me, "go back inside and be honest". So, I met with the pastor and his wife in his office and I came totally clean. I humbled myself and let them know I was solely to blame for the breakup of my marriage and that Rocket did nothing wrong. I even told them who the other man was (they know him). I told them everything. I knew I was risking losing my job and my income by telling them, but I HAD to tell the truth, exonerate Rocket, humble myself and confess. I spoke with them for an hour and cried and cried...ugly cried. Their response to me was one of such love and grace. They said they had always admired me and thought the world of me, but they had just gained a new respect for me because of my humility and honesty and obedience to God. They did not fire me and instead loved me and said they believed God would honor me for what I had just done. I am so humbled by all of this. They held me and prayed with me and asked God to heal me, Rocket, and our marriage and to bring our family back together. I left feeling like a weight had been lifted. Lies protect and ensnare and I had to come out from under it forever. Now I am fully exposed to everyone in our lives. No secrets. No hiding. No more lies. No more protecting. No more covering up. I'm an open book now. 

And OH MY WORD I'm so jealous!! She is my fav! Incredible voice.


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## farsidejunky

Well done, Sofa.

This is exactly what I meant by trusting the process.

On a side note, I led two songs in worship yesterday. It is the first time in over two and a half years that I have led. 

Humbling, that.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. It is freeing to be obedient to God. I feel like I've grown leaps and bounds just this week. God is showing me so much. Blinders are coming off. I know Rocket reads all this and he is gonna see this, but I was cleaning today and found a card from him with the sweetest hand written note from him on the inside. I sat on the floor in our living room and read it like I'd never read it before and saw a different man in those words than I had seen before. He loved me so much. Oh gosh...how did I miss seeing it?? I was so stupid to think he didn't love me. It was in plain sight! He worked his tail off for me and our family. He was so devoted to me and our family and he really really loved me. I'm being humbled every day. It's like an awakening is happening within me and I'm seeing things in a different, better light. I have been so self absorbed and been feeling sorry for myself for years and WHY?? The love I wanted was right in front of my eyes. I took it and him for granted. I'd do anything to have it again. 

Yay for leading songs in worship! That's so great. Which two did you sing? 

I'll let you know a little bit more about me...when I was 12 years old I asked the Lord to give me a voice to sing. I told Him if He would, I'd always use it for His glory. I had up until last year too and have always led worship. I joined the country band and neglected that vow to God and my marriage vows to my husband too. I walked away from Truth. So, I've had to repent for so so much. I've turned from the wicked ways that were destroying me. There's a shift I can feel within me. I know I'm becoming new.


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## laststraw

GusPolinski said:


> And now we have a second biased side.


AND the truth is somewhere down the middle


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper and @Rocket Skates76

I am about to tell you two something you probably do not want to hear, so please prepare yourselves before you read further. 

@Sofa Sleeper, I do believe you are actually trying to change yourself internally--your thoughts and feelings both. I do believe you are doing your best to take a real look at yourself and do better. I do believe that seeing what you've done is an eye-opening experience that causes deep, godly sorrow. 

However, I want to caution you that it still sounds to me as if 99.99% of your changing is based on the expectation that "if I change, the reward will be that I get your husband back" or some sort of bargain to that effect. Now I know you will most likely respond with at least: "Oh not that's not it at all! I really want this for me!" and I have no doubt you think that's the case. But real, true growth and change occurs when you FACE the thing you've been RUNNING FROM and when you do it because in your core it has to be, whether it costs you or not. At this point I can't tell your future, but what I can say is that losing a marriage results in grief for both parties, and part of the grieving process is bargaining. [FYI the stages of grief are Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression and Acceptance...and it's not like we go one after the other. They are just the usual stages that occur at some point as you process grief.]

At this point, @Rocket Skates76 is 100% within his moral right to choose to acknowledge that the marriage died with your acts of infidelity. He is also 100% within his moral right to choose to not trust your honesty right now. Make no mistake, he does not have a trust issue; he trusts you quite completely to be dishonest!! What he has an issue with is your ability to maintain long-term transparency and honesty. Clearly as a fellow-wayward, you lived a life that was full of dishonesty and imagery: you projected the image of a wife while acting sexually immoral, you projected the image of a Christian while acting like the world, you projected the image of caring about him while you were stabbing him in the back...repeatedly!!! Thus, one of your lessons literally MUST be to accept the fact that he does not trust your honesty AND WILL NOT FOR QUITE A LONG TIME!!! By that I mean, that even if he does decide to give you some time to prove yourself, it will likely be a year or so before he actually believes what you say AND RIGHTFULLY SO. For at minimum the next year, it would be wisdom for him to sit back and let you either make the effort to behave and speak honestly...or go back to your world of coverup that you've shown him you go back to when things get tough. 

So I know you don't want to hear this, but do not deceive yourself. If you want to change, do so with the explicit expectation that it is NOT to win @Rocket Skates76 back. Do it because that is the woman you want to be. 

@Rocket Skates76, I do believe that you've been cheated on twice and you may be in the place of acknowledging that two adulteries = the marriage is dead. This is 100% morally your option...you don't HAVE TO take the option, but you can, and it is not your actions filing or doing the legal stuff that caused the death. That being said, you absolutely were not a saint in this marriage and did many things that caused heartache and drove a wedge into the state of the marriage. Whatever you do decide, it is your responsibility to examine the contribution you made to the breakdown prior to both adulteries, and to deal with your side of it. I get it--she CHEATED--but two wrongs don't make a right (two lefts do). If you were wrong to spend no time with the woman you love, to view porn, and to have an angry, impatient attitude, then you were personally responsible for what you did. In other words, her sin doesn't justify your sin. Thus, she's not the only one who has work to do. 

I don't care if you choose to be with her or you choose to be with someone else, the fact of the matter is that when you marry, it's a covenant between you and God that you will spend the rest of your life treating YOUR SPOUSE in a loving way...not "getting your needs met." Ignoring the woman you love is not treating her in a loving way, so being unavailable for positive time with her is you breaking your vow. Viewing porn with the intent to look lustfully at another and the intent to replace the woman you love is not treating her in a loving way (not to mention disrespectful) so that is you breaking your vow. Having a continuous angry, impatient attitude with the woman you love is not treating her in a loving way--especially if her love language is Words of Affirmation--so that is you breaking your vow. My point here is that she dropped a nuke, but you were hammering cracks into the foundation. Therefore, while she is facing her demons and trying to learn in IC what honest living is like, now is the time for you to face your own demons: maybe some anger management and talking with a Christian mentor about porn accountability. And remember--this is not me blaming you for her adultery, but it IS me pointing out that it is right and reasonable for you to be personally resposible for your side of the street whatever that may have been. 

IN ADDITION, it is my understanding that you and @Sofa Sleeper have been spending time together, including intimate time, while you are also simultaneously telling her that your decision is to divorce. Look I'm an adult and I have the sexual itch like anyone...plus within marriage is the moral option for expressing ourselves sexually, right? Here's the problem: by your own mouth, you have chosen to no longer be married to her. That means that in the same way that she no longer gets the benefits of @Rocket Skates76 because she chose to go outside the marriage... YOU no longer get the benefits of @Sofa Sleeper because your choice was to divorce her. 

You literally can NOT keep expecting dates and sex while simultaneously choosing divorce. Either the choice is divorce--in which case you lose the dates and sex--or the choice is reconciliation--in which case divorce is no longer a threat you can use to control her. It can't be both at the same time. So which is it going to be? If you are leaving her, then go. End all contact, file divorce, and stop stringing her along using her for sex. If you are reconciling, then you need to come to a place where you lay down the weapon of threatening divorce. Please make ONE decision and stick with that decision and the resulting cost and benefit. To continue to use her for sex while saying you are divorcing her, is ... well you are having sex with someone who is no longer your wife. You tell me! And waiting for the government to catch up legally does not mean that while you're still legally "not yet unmarried" that you can diddle her, either. The covenant was between you, her and GOD, therefore the determination of who is and is not married is their status before God, not some piece of paper. If you are married, you can not keep threatening divorce or use it as an easy out when things don't go your way--but you get the benefit of a lifelong companion and regular sex. If you are NOT MARRIED, you do not get the benefit of her lifelong companionship or sex. Okay? So pick ONE and stick with it 100%. 

Final note: Forgiveness does not mean that you forget, nor does it mean that consequences are not experienced--it means that the injured party lays down their right to requital. Right now as the injured party, you are due recompense for "the injury" and forgiveness is just like any other decision. It is a choice. It has a cost and a benefit. And once the choice is made, you pay the cost but also reap the benefit. You do not have to reconcile in order to forgive, but in order to forgive you do have to eventually lay down the sword you're holding over her head (One wrong move and I'll DIVORCE!). If you divorce, forgiveness looks like "I'm laying this down so I can move on with my life and you can move on with yours." If you reconcile, forgiveness looks like "I made the choice to recommit and so I will not intentionally destabilize the marriage by threatening divorce. I lay that down and choose to never pick it up again."


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## Sofa Sleeper

I will not lie. I want my husband back. I want our marriage healed and our family whole.That's not my reason for making changes, however. I am beginning to see God using this mess to bring me back to Him....total surrender. If the bonus is that my marriage is healed in this and my husband chooses me, then I will forever be grateful. I cry even typing that. It would be the most amazing gift I have EVER received. Something I would work the rest of my life to show gratitude for. I know the gravity of my sins and I know the Biblical right my husband has. I can still have hope though and I do and I will.


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## Affaircare

Yep I hear ya @Sofa Sleeper. That's pretty much exactly how I felt too. BTW you'll be interested to know it is creeping up on a decade since my own infidelity and to this day I still am grateful and think about it. HOWEVER, since forgiveness isn't just Dear Hubby's to give, I also do recognize and accept that I sincerely repented before God, and He has stated in His Word that He DID forgive me! Thus, when I get in that mood of being utterly sorrowful, I stop myself and remind myself that although I may feel horrible, I am already forgiven and I need to align with what I know is true. Feelings come and go based on hunger, anger, loneliness or tiredness ... or for us lady's, hormones! Thus they are not stable. They ebb and flow. But God's promises ARE stable and do not ebb and flow, so building on what He has promised IS wisdom. 

It would be a gift beyond description if @Rocket Skates76 made the choice to reconcile, but I think it is still a gift beyond joy that God is using this to bring you closer to Him.


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare, how awesome that you and your husband are almost 10 years out!! I'm so happy to hear that. The gift of mercy and forgiveness I have received from the Lord is humbling. I am so undeserving of that kind of love. And now I'm crying AGAIN. The love He has shown me just this week as He brought me to this place of correction and pruning has been painful and at times too much to even bear, but NECESSARY. The crazy thing is that the guy that plays bass for me at church looked at me this Sunday and said, "you're different". I asked what he meant and he said, "something about you is different, you even look different". My eyes got all leaky and then I told him where God had brought me this past week and even confessed my sins to him! He said the transformation is beautiful (and no it was not in the slightest flirty or inappropriate way either). There is a purging happening in me. I just want to be transparent. I am not worried about my reputation or being exposed or any of that either. I just want to please God and do the right thing from here on. 

My love for Rocket has increased even through this. I see him as someone so priceless. I see so much value in him and in who he is. I have such a respect for him now....more than I ever have. I see the love he has had all along for me. I have been honored to be called his wife. He's a keeper. Like I said earlier, there has been such an awakening with me just in the past week. I see things as they are. I see the incredible blessings I had and have been given. I am already grateful that I was able to spend close to 10 years with my Rocket. I had the love of a lifetime and it was real. We didn't always have it all together, but together we had it all. No matter what, I am still blessed. 

PS...our 10th anniversary is on the 24th of this month. We had plans to go on a little trip together too. We never had a honeymoon and this trip was going to be our honeymoon and we were renewing our vows too. 


And....I'm crying again.


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## farsidejunky

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Thank you. It is freeing to be obedient to God. I feel like I've grown leaps and bounds just this week. God is showing me so much. Blinders are coming off. I know Rocket reads all this and he is gonna see this, but I was cleaning today and found a card from him with the sweetest hand written note from him on the inside. I sat on the floor in our living room and read it like I'd never read it before and saw a different man in those words than I had seen before. He loved me so much. Oh gosh...how did I miss seeing it?? I was so stupid to think he didn't love me. It was in plain sight! He worked his tail off for me and our family. He was so devoted to me and our family and he really really loved me. I'm being humbled every day. It's like an awakening is happening within me and I'm seeing things in a different, better light. I have been so self absorbed and been feeling sorry for myself for years and WHY?? The love I wanted was right in front of my eyes. I took it and him for granted. I'd do anything to have it again.
> 
> Yay for leading songs in worship! That's so great. Which two did you sing?
> 
> I'll let you know a little bit more about me...when I was 12 years old I asked the Lord to give me a voice to sing. I told Him if He would, I'd always use it for His glory. I had up until last year too and have always led worship. I joined the country band and neglected that vow to God and my marriage vows to my husband too. I walked away from Truth. So, I've had to repent for so so much. I've turned from the wicked ways that were destroying me. There's a shift I can feel within me. I know I'm becoming new.


The Lion And The Lamb and Christ Is Enough.

Take the lessons in, Sofa. They hurt, but many of the best lessons do.

You see now why I said to you before that @Affaircare is one of the very best. Two fine posts from her to you.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Yes, sir. Thank you. I'm signing off for a bit. Rocket is on his way over to grill dinner outside and hang out with me and the kids for the evening. I cherish these times more than I ever did before when they were "the norm". 

Oh hindsight.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Side note: when Rocket and I are together and snuggle on the couch, kiss, and are intimate with each other, I don't feel used by him. He is still my husband in my heart. I still love him tremendously and he says he still loves me too. I think it's natural to miss each other and long to be close. We hold each other sometimes for an hour before anything sexual ever happens even. We are still married....until at least next July when he can file for divorce as per our state law, should he decide to do so. 

Anyway, I didn't want him reading any of that thinking I feel like he's using me...because I don't. Also, I don't want him to feel rushed to HAVE to make a decision right away either. A lot can change in the next 10 months. I will be patient. I am not going anywhere. If he wants to come over and be close to me one day and then feels differently the next, that is ok too. I understand.


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## 3Xnocharm

Sofa Sleeper said:


> My love for Rocket has increased even through this. I see him as someone so priceless. I see so much value in him and in who he is. I have such a respect for him now....more than I ever have. I see the love he has had all along for me. I have been honored to be called his wife. He's a keeper. Like I said earlier, there has been such an awakening with me just in the past week. I see things as they are. I see the incredible blessings I had and have been given. I am already grateful that I was able to spend close to 10 years with my Rocket. I had the love of a lifetime and it was real. We didn't always have it all together, but together we had it all. No matter what, I am still blessed.


Really? Because this flies in the face of the whole reason for this thread in the first place, your opening post, the title of this thread. Remember that miserable marriage with that man who couldnt be bothered with you? The one who ignored you and dismissed you? This all feels phony to me. I get the feeling in reading here that you dont have this great love for your husband... you have a great fear of losing your lifestyle, and everyone in your lives knowing that it was YOU who cheated and YOU who brought down the marriage. You dont want the shame and the blame. You suddenly want to follow God because you got CAUGHT... and you are scared. 

Sorry to be that person, but this all just feels disingenuous to me.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I understand why you do. I spent far too long looking at what I didn't have instead of realizing what I did have. Whatever you feed, grows. Was he perfect? No, but who is? I wasn't either. The fact of the matter though is that he truly loved me and I was looking for evidence of it one way when he was BEING it to me all along in so many other ways. You don't realize what you have until it is gone. Then it becomes painfully clear.

I have already been exposed to everyone. I could've kept this whole thing hidden, kept lying and saved my face, but I chose to come clean and have admitted to all that I am the reason we are separated. Even our children know it was me, not him. As far as my lifestyle goes, I'm doing just fine on my own raising 6 kids by myself. I WANT my husband though. I want to spend my life with him. I want to love him and be loved by him. I want to grow old with him.

When I originally began this thread, I was still in self pity, selfish, immature, justification mode. A lot has happened within me since then. Yes, God has truly began some serious changes in me. It has been painful to say the least. Coming face to face with my sin and with the pain it has caused is such sickening anguish. I have to let the pain do its work though. Releasing it to God though and surrendering myself, I have begun to see things and see my husband in a different light; a new perspective. I have woken up to reality. My reality is that because of my selfishness and stupidity, I traded real love for a false "feeling" of validation. It has cost me everything. I now stand to lose him forever because of it. 

No matter what, I will be ok. I know that. I don't want to spend and share my life with anyone else but him though.


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## Magnesium

3Xnocharm said:


> Really? Because this flies in the face of the whole reason for this thread in the first place, your opening post, the title of this thread. Remember that miserable marriage with that man who couldnt be bothered with you? The one who ignored you and dismissed you? This all feels phony to me. I get the feeling in reading here that you dont have this great love for your husband... you have a great fear of losing your lifestyle, and everyone in your lives knowing that it was YOU who cheated and YOU who brought down the marriage. You dont want the shame and the blame. You suddenly want to follow God because you got CAUGHT... and you are scared.
> 
> Sorry to be that person, but this all just feels disingenuous to me.


You're not the only one. I don't buy any of it.

It borders on irresponsible to provide a platform for someone to hone their skills of manipulation.


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## turnera

The thing is, if she's still walking the walk 6 months from now, we can start to believe it's real. If she's still walking the walk even if he divorces her, we can start to believe it's real. That's her burden now - truly change, or not. Time will tell. It's hard to keep up that much of a farce for very long.


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## drifting on

I'll go out on a limb here, I have had extensive and raw conversations with Sofa through PM's. Sofa was all she admitted and more when she came here, but she has been doing what betrayed spouses need to see. She has drpopped her guard and is accepting what she has done. She has stopped being defensive and is actively working with a therapist to become a better person. Is she trying to save her marriage through honesty? Yes. Is she reflecting inward, is she owning what she did, does she know the chance of staying married is right now slim at best? Yes. However she is remaining positive, she is working on herself, and she has made progress on herself. That is all that can be asked at this moment, to better herself and be a much better person. 

I understand that not everyone sees eye to eye with Sofa, that doesn't mean Sofa isn't putting in the work. That doesn't mean that Sofa is being dishonest with her words. All Sofa can do here on this forum is to tell us what she is doing. We can't see the actions that match her words, we can't even see if her words and actions don't match up. Through pm I believe Sofa is working as she's saying. I believe she is bettering herself, and I have called her out on things. 

Infidelity can't be fixed quickly, it's a long slow process. All she can do is to continue as well as she has been and pray. My wife began to see me in a different light, that I loved her the entire time, and now it was at risk of being lost. My wife wasn't afraid of the lifestyle she would lose, she was terrified that she was losing me forever. 

I'm not trying to protect Sofa, although it may be viewed that way. I'm just trying to point out that she is trying to better herself and change who she was. Is she capable of cheating again? Yes, but I doubt that would ever happen again. The way Sofa entered TAM was terrible, she has since begun to truly work on herself. This is a human being who is severely flawed, but that doesn't mean she can't be a better person through therapy.


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## 3Xnocharm

drifting on said:


> I'm not trying to protect Sofa, although it may be viewed that way. I'm just trying to point out that she is trying to better herself and change who she was. Is she capable of cheating again? Yes, but I doubt that would ever happen again. The way Sofa entered TAM was terrible, she has since begun to truly work on herself. This is a human being who is severely flawed, but that doesn't mean she can't be a better person through therapy.


I dont question that she is putting in work on herself, and support and encourage that. What I question is the sudden revelation that she LOVES Rocket SOOOO much, and her statements of how amazing he is, the honor of being his wife, etc.... THAT is the part that comes across as phony to me. She was MISERABLE, to the point she let herself seek validation outside of the marriage. Now suddenly since she screwed him over, he is amazing?? Sorry... I just dont buy it.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you, Drifting On. I know you truly care.

I'm not asking for anyone to believe me. I completely understand the skepticism. It's expected for sure. It's what I get too. I can accept that.

Drifting On said exactly what I am saying and feeling...I'm not fearful of losing a lifestyle, I'm terrified of losing his love. I know people will say it's cheesy, but we both have always believed we were made for each other. There is a special bond we share that runs very deep. I'm afraid of losing HIM... Not what he provides. I should've taken all of that into account before and I didn't. I hate that I didn't. I am ashamed of myself for being such an idiot. He knows that HE is all I've ever wanted. I still want him. I always will. I won't ever give up or lose hope. 

Six months from now, I will be even stronger. I know I've come so far already and I'm gonna keep going. I want to be proud of myself and pleased with the woman I am, the mother I am and the wife I can be. I told God that I will walk through this valley for as long as He requires. I know He is with me, near to me. I know the minute I broke and surrendered, He reached for me. I have that. He is molding me and making me into something beautiful and I'm letting him. I don't ever want to go back to who I was. I know deep within me that I will NEVER be unfaithful again. I know the mantra of once a cheater, always a cheater, but not only is their a righteous fear of God within me now, but I have been scared straight FOR REAL. This pain that I have caused my sweetheart and our family and myself is the most unimaginable pain I've ever experienced. Worse than any other traumatic event of my life. I will never hurt him or our family like this ever again. I know I won't. 

If I'm given the chance, I will honor that gift forever.


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## drifting on

3Xnocharm said:


> I dont question that she is putting in work on herself, and support and encourage that. What I question is the sudden revelation that she LOVES Rocket SOOOO much, and her statements of how amazing he is, the honor of being his wife, etc.... THAT is the part that comes across as phony to me. She was MISERABLE, to the point she let herself seek validation outside of the marriage. Now suddenly since she screwed him over, he is amazing?? Sorry... I just dont buy it.




I agree with most of this, but I also question how much of this was rewriting marital history as wayward spouses tend to do. I honestly believe that @Rocket Skates76 wasn't as bad as she made him out to be. Sure, he has flaws, but I honestly think she magnified his flaws to justify her actions. She also blamed rocket to everyone about how bad he was then went and admitted she was the one at fault and not rocket. Why go back and tell everyone it was you if his flaws were indeed that bad. 

I have always had a hard time explaining my wife's affair, and how she saw me during that time. Obviously my wife loved her affair partner, enough to have the affair, and then loved me again. This is where I struggle to find the words to describe the situation. I don't know if my wife came to her senses, had some sort of revelation, or whatever else you call it. Argh, forget it, I get all twisted up on this still, I don't know the words to effectively describe this.


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## Sofa Sleeper

3x's:

I hear ya. I was so focused on what he didn't give me that I missed what he was giving me. Like I said, whatever you feed grows. Sure he could've been more attentive and he knows that. There's no need to harp on any of that. I could've been more of what he needed me to be too. We speak different love languages and there's nothing wrong with that. I've just begun to really really see that this man loved me. I was blind to it because I was looking for it to "look" a certain way. I love him for him...flaws and all. I accept him for who he is and love him and want to love him even more. The crazy thing is that my love for him is growing even stronger through this.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Drifting On nailed it. I magnified the situation. It wasn't an ideal situation, and both of us could've worked to strengthen our marriage, but that didn't give me the right OR permission to seek attention elsewhere. That was me. Not him.


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## Sofa Sleeper

This.


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## drifting on

This is going to be difficult for you to read, but possibly something you may fail to address in therapy. You stated that you both have different love languages. While this isn't uncommon, failing to recognize the difference can drive wedges that most often times form resentment. The fact included that you had an affair most likely attributed to resentment. Now you know the truth that rocket did indeed love you with all his heart. Do not forget he has flaws too, but I believe that before your affair, during, and after their was emotional abuse portrayed by you. 

Resentment made you have a chip on your shoulder so to speak. Your speaking bad of rocket was emotional abuse. You are going to have to reflect back to your behavior and find if you were also emotionally abusive to rocket too. I have spoken many times about how my wife treated me during her affair, it was terrible. But pre affair she had some resentment (along with I) where she was mildly abusive. I say mild because I know I brought toxic to the marriage and this was pre affair. Do you think it is possible that you were also emotionally abusive during the marriage and affair? 

I only ask so that you grow completely from this, so you become more healthy. I don't speak much about this part but it is important to work this out in therapy so it doesn't happen in the future. 

I was going to pm this to you, but I feel it is important and people should be aware of this.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Good point and observation. I was passively abusive, yes. I'm not a nagging type or unkind with words, and was sweet more often than not, but the resentment WAS there for sure. I hid it well. It grew too. I fed it! I felt sorry for myself. I felt like I was the only one keeping the marriage alive and when he rejected me, it hurt and made me angry. Resentment was a big issue. This actually is something my therapist and I have worked on. I did not cheat to get back at him at all though. It wasn't like that. 

Now the lying and deception was totally abusive. Guilty as charged. Watching him suffer with mental anguish...abusive.


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## Sofa Sleeper

The thing is, the more inward I reflect and the more lightbulb moments I have, the more truth I accept, transparent I become, and the more I grow, the more I want to fight for my marriage.


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> The thing is, the more inward I reflect and the more lightbulb moments I have, the more truth I accept, transparent I become, and the more I grow, the more I want to fight for my marriage.





Gently, and has other posters have told you, right now you have one goal, you. Before you can think down the line towards marriage, you have to become healthy in mind, body, and spirit. The simple fact is that although you are making strides, you are not ready nor prepared to try to repair the marriage. I don't say this to have you feel dejected, but instead so you don't try to fix the marriage or say you are ready to. That is your long term goal, I understand, but by continuing to say your fighting for your marriage is wrong. How do you fix the marriage from a position of being unhealthy? I don't say this to be mean, but this is a process and parts can't be skipped. You have made great progress Sofa, but you also need to continue towards being healthier while proving you won't return to your old ways.


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## Sofa Sleeper

You're right. The better I become though, the stronger the desire to make things right becomes. I will be patient and trust the process though.


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## Taxman

It really is out of your hands. Sit tight, and whatever happens, it happens. At this point there is little advice anyone can give. Keep reflecting inward, see a therapist, and breathe. Many people on here go out of their minds trying to change a situation. I recommend against that. It never goes well. Post, talk, journal as well. I should tell you that I was the wayward. It was 30 years ago. I hurt her worse than if I had taken a weapon to her. We went through the fires of hell, and it was all my fault. I was weak, stupid, and did not see the precious jewel I had. When my moment of clarity arrived, it was like having a building fall on me. We spent the better part of a year, just getting back together. It took another two before she could feel safe with me. We both made terrible mistakes. We split and got together several times during that year. She wanted to get even. She did. I kicked her out of my life for a month afterward. I got to experience what I put her through. It took time, and strength to overcome the errors, but we did. We are enjoying the fruits of our travails now 40 years into this marriage. We have had external factors try to split us up, only to defeat them. They do not know what we went through to get to this place, and now that we are here, we are enjoying it.

Sofa, you know now a mere shadow of the pain that you put Rocket through. This is a long hard road back, if it is possible at all.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Taxman, thanks for sharing your story. You described the moment of clarity spot on. And I too didn't recognize the jewel I had in Rocket and feel like such a fool. I literally would do anything to be able to go back and change things. I know it's his decision and all I can do is work on me and pray like I've never prayed before. I know there is much work to do and that the road back is not easy. If he is willing to walk that road with me, I will hold his hand ever so tightly and never let go. If he is not, I will accept that as his choice and hope that one day we will once again find our way back to each other. 

I appreciate your honesty, Taxman. I am very glad to hear you two made it. Whether you meant to or not, you gave me hope. Thank you.


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## Sofa Sleeper

How can I talk to just a few people on here at once? I have some questions that I don't necessarily want to be on a public forum or to be made public, but want some guidance and advice with. Is that possible and if so how do I do it?


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## TBT

Sofa Sleeper said:


> How can I talk to just a few people on here at once? I have some questions that I don't necessarily want to be on a public forum or to be made public, but want some guidance and advice with. Is that possible and if so how do I do it?


You could start a social group and invite those you want to join by PM. See the drop down box on the Community heading at top of page.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I must be a dork because I cannot find that option, but I'm only able to use the mobile version of the site. Is that why?


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## drifting on

Sofa Sleeper said:


> How can I talk to just a few people on here at once? I have some questions that I don't necessarily want to be on a public forum or to be made public, but want some guidance and advice with. Is that possible and if so how do I do it?




Sofa

After you sign in, click on your name, scroll down to group memberships, click on join social groups. Scroll down to the bottom, click on create s new group. You should then be able to set up your group.


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## TBT

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I must be a dork because I cannot find that option, but I'm only able to use the mobile version of the site. Is that why?


I keep forgetting that I use classic skin for forum.So maybe at the top of your page there is a Tools heading. If so,click on it and you'll get a drop down box,then quick links will take you to what I previously mentioned. I don't know about the mobile version and how it may be set up.

Just in case you don't know,you can quote a poster by clicking on Quote at the bottom of their post. Doing that will take it to your reply box.


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## Sofa Sleeper

lol thanks...also not available on the mobile version. Thank you for trying to help though. I appreciate it!


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## TBT

Sofa Sleeper said:


> lol thanks...also not available on the mobile version. Thank you for trying to help though. I appreciate it!


I don't know whether or not you use tapatalk app,but from my understanding it expands upon the access that the forum itself provides for mobile devices.

Also,just to add that if you have a User CP tab then you may be able to get to Networking.


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## DTO

Sofa Sleeper said:


> And btw, it is extremely hurtful to see that my husband posted my private confession to him in a PUBLIC forum for the whole world to see... He did not keep his word and instead blasted my confession to everyone here to pick apart and dissect.


Hi Sofa Sleeper,

Let me first say that your pain is palpable through your posts. I do hope for the best for you and hope you can restore your marriage.

That being said, I don't think your expectation of complete confidentiality regarding your admission to the affair was reasonable. I saw that you said he gave his word, but that's not what I'm getting at. My point is that a spouse's physical affair is a very painful thing for most of us, probably. You expecting him to keep all of that bottled up was probably asking too much.

Let me ask you this: how did that conversation happen? Did you disclose the affair without conditions and then ask him to keep your confidence? Did you condition your admission of the affair on his keeping quiet about it, and if so then why? If you knew he was going to air your dirty laundry would you have kept the affair to yourself, and if so then why?

IMO (and this might sound crappy) looking bad is part of the penance you might have to pay when you have a marital blunder of this magnitude. If my ex cheated on me and then said “but you have to keep it quiet” I would doubt she was sincerely remorseful or sincerely interested in reconciliation. OTOH, being willing to own up to it (without trying to save face, or deflect, or etc.) and publicly acknowledge the pain caused shows genuineness and a willingness to do better.

Hope this helps.


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## Sofa Sleeper

It doesn't even matter really anymore, but I will answer anyway. He was incessantly accusing me of having sex with the other guy. I had not and I did not. I never had intercourse with ANYONE other than my husband. I never kissed anyone other than my husband. That being said, he kept saying he didn't believe me. I told him over the phone the furthest it ever went. Then he asked me to type up something with every detail of the infidelity. He said, "Today is your day of reconciliation and if you give me the truth, you have my word that we will get back together". I knew he could polygraph me and I also wanted to come totally clean and make things right and to give him answers he needed, so I told him everything in detail. I knew he was a keeper of his word and I wanted to do the right thing with full disclosure. I wasn't too worried about anyone knowing the truth, but the detailed timeline was for my husband and it was between us, not for the whole World Wide Web to see and dissect. So, when I saw he had posted it publicly for the world to see, it did hurt. He didn't keep his word because he said he didn't believe my timeline, although it IS 100% accurate. I have begged to be polygraphed, but he refuses. What I DID do is terrible and wrong and inappropriate and hurtful and I hate that I did it, but I will not and cannot ever confess to something that never happened. 

I love my husband. He has asked me today to not include him in the picture of my future. My heart is beyond saddened, but it is his choice. Nothing hurts more. Nothing. 

TAM, please pray for me tonight. Pray for Rocket too. I will make it through this and I will be stronger even though the pain is unbearable tonight. My IC today left me with much to think about concerning my personal future.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Truly, I don't care at all about my identity being exposed or anyone finding out how badly I've screwed up. I'm an open book now. Some throw stones, others offer love and mercy. That's life.


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## EllaSuaveterre

Um, it's really not my place to say anything, but are you sure that's wise? Your husband is on this site too you know, and can see that you posted pictures of you two. Did he give you permission to do that? Is he okay with his photographs being shown to everyone on TAM?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Removed.


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## farsidejunky

There is no social group access from Tapatalk.

To change from mobile view to desktop view, use the browser drop down and check the appropriate box.

Now, Sofa...

Between the prayer request and the reckless posting of the pictures (since removed), you must have had an emotional night. 

Ella appropriately called you out. More importantly, why post the pictures at all? Why now?

I have my suspicions, but would like to hear from you on that.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Farside, I had a terrible night last night. Actually, I showed up to IC very upset and left with some things to consider and then last night once the kids were in bed, I crumbled. I was really hurting. The pictures were posted because I am not afraid of being found out like others keep saying I am...or I'm more worried about my reputation, etc...I'm not. It's not about that. I removed them because Ella was right and it was a rash move. I don't need to prove anything to anyone. It's between me and God.

I woke up today with a clear head and resolve. I wanted to talk to you and a few others privately about some things my IC talked to me about, but I can't figure out how to do that. I really would like your insight though.


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## farsidejunky

Take your browser off of mobile view and you will see how to get into social groups.

From the menu on the top of the screen:

Tools>Quick Links>Social Groups

I'm glad that you recognized last night's behavior for what it is. Do you see how you sought to assuage your discomfort with destructive (albeit destructive in a smaller way) behavior?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Yes, I do. Okay I'm about to try what you said.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Ok I created the group and sent the private invites.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Ok so I just saw Rocket for a money exchange for a bill. I got back in my car and felt my eyes filling up with tears as I watched him drive away and then this came on the radio and slayed me. 

This.

https://youtu.be/SOatlJLKt40


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## sokillme

So while I was gone what did I miss? :surprise:

With all do respect sometimes Jesus answer is to no. Meaning you can't have your marriage that you treated so poorly back. That doesn't mean he isn't giving you grace, but remember you husband is also his child. Frankly you are not a safe bet for your husband. You have done this to him twice. You husband also deserves to be with someone who will not treat him so poorly. 

I know you feel sorry for what you did and the pain you see in his eyes and stuff but part of that is because you know YOU caused the pain. Meaning the pain is from the guilt you feel, which makes this still kind of a self centered emotion. Though at least you have it, that means you are not so far gone as to have no empathy, that at least gives you something to work with. You will really be starting to get this when you don't care about how painful it is for you and only want your husband to be happy. When your husband tells you he is done and needs to move on you say, if that is what you need I will stop trying to get you back. Go and be happy. When you put his happiness above your own. 

You NEED to understand that you are an abuser, I know that is harsh but what you did is very much like a man who strikes his wife and brakes bones or puts her in the hospital. He may at that point have his come to Jesus moment like you have, but even given that fact would you or anyone else think it is a good idea for this women to stay with that husband? Even if he never hit her again. What does it do to the women to live with a man who could do that to her. What does that do to her self worth and self esteem. The dynamic that has now been established in the relationship is so toxic that it's just not a healthy thing to exist anymore. Better to let it code out and die, and start fresh with something new. This is where your husband rightly seems to be. 

This is why the idea that, we still love each other is really a poor reason to stay in a marriage with this kind of abuse in it. Presumably you both loved each other before you cheated the first time, and even after you cheated the second time. That also didn't stop you from being desperately unhappy, and even worse cheating twice. Again this is why it makes sense that the answer to your prayers may just be to remove your husband from your life. You don't see it now but you may one day. It is probably better for both of you. Honestly until you deal with you propensity to search for what you feel is missing in the arms of men other then your husband, you are in no position to be married to anyone. You don't even describe you marriage as all that positive for you, why are you so desperate to have it back? Are you sure this isn't about the rejection? You need to do some serious work on this stuff for a while. 

Like a good parent you were given a wonderful gift and you decided to take it a smash it on the floor. At that point the parent may not replace the gift. This is life. That doesn't mean there will not be other gifts in the future but you need contrition and change first. You need to be worthy of a second chance. That takes a lot of work and a long time effort. Let your husband go, or at the very least listen to the song, and give up control of the status of your marriage and work on the one thing you truly do have control over, yourself.

You would do well to read the story of Saul. There are plenty of biblical instances where God removed his blessing from his children because of their sin. Doesn't mean he doesn't love you but gifts of marriage and love come with responsibly. Doesn't even mean you can't have redemption and restoration, but it probably won't be with the man who was your husband.


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## Sofa Sleeper

SoKillMe:

I guess you've missed a lot. No worries though. Here's the very short abbreviated version because I am very tired tonight:

God has seriously dealt with me. 

I am making changes and getting well.

My focus is on becoming a woman of integrity and caring for our kids.

Rocket will choose whatever he wants.

I will accept that and be fine.

All things work together for good for those who love Him. 

My trust isn't in Rocket. 

My trust is in the Lord. My hope is in the Lord.

I love my husband enough to let him go.

I am still of value. Maybe not to Rocket, but my worth doesn't come from him. My past does not dictate my future. 

Making predictions based on personal opinions is pointless. When did we forget that He's always been the King of the world? God will have the final say and I trust that it will be what's best for all of us.


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## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> SoKillMe:
> 
> I guess you've missed a lot. No worries though. Here's the very short abbreviated version because I am very tired tonight:
> 
> God has seriously dealt with me.
> 
> I am making changes and getting well.
> 
> My focus is on becoming a woman of integrity and caring for our kids.
> 
> Rocket will choose whatever he wants.
> 
> I will accept that and be fine.
> 
> All things work together for good for those who love Him.
> 
> My trust isn't in Rocket.
> 
> My trust is in the Lord. My hope is in the Lord.
> 
> I love my husband enough to let him go.
> 
> I am still of value. Maybe not to Rocket, but my worth doesn't come from him. My past does not dictate my future.
> 
> Making predictions based on personal opinions is pointless. When did we forget that He's always been the King of the world? God will have the final say and I trust that it will be what's best for all of us.


This is a good attitude to have. Frankly in all the posts you have written on here this is the one that gives me real hope for you. If this is really your true attitude then you will end up better. 

Like you quoted



> All things work together for good for those who love Him.


That includes pain and suffering. 

I also think you should do some serious praying about whether it is a biblical for you to stay in a leadership position in the church right now.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper, 

You know the place I'm coming from, right? My Dear Hubby whom I adore with every part of me, to whom I am faithful in body and mind, was taken from this earth on Tuesday. It's been TWO DAYS. And if you don't think I told the Lord I want him to stay and I want my marriage, then you don't know me. 

But here's the truth: the answer to my plea was "no." I am suffering DEEPLY and sorrowing over losing him, but the Lord had other plans for me, including learning something from this pain. Maybe I'm to be a testimony of hope. Maybe I'm to learn humility of some kind. I don't know yet, exactly. But what I do know is that the day I married Dear Hubby until literally our last night together I did the sme thing I always did: "Lord, I have so very much enjoyed your gift, but I acknowlege he is not mine--he's yours. I know you can take him in an instance when you will, so I give him to you in your safe keeping." 

The Lord has him. I don't. And something you really need to consider is that if you really mean that God will have the final say and that He will do what's BEST for us, then that means that sometimes His answer really will be: "My good and faithful servant, my answer to your request is no." Very literally the Lord gives, and the Lord TAKES. People tend to forget that part...or they don't want Him to take so they avoid or ignore it. I know that my husband's passing will bring glory to the Lord. It already has. But that in no way means I don't suffer. 

See what I mean?


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## sokillme

Affaircare said:


> @Sofa Sleeper,
> 
> You know the place I'm coming from, right? My Dear Hubby whom I adore with every part of me, to whom I am faithful in body and mind, was taken from this earth on Tuesday. It's been TWO DAYS. And if you don't think I told the Lord I want him to stay and I want my marriage, then you don't know me.
> 
> But here's the truth: the answer to my plea was "no." I am suffering DEEPLY and sorrowing over losing him, but the Lord had other plans for me, including learning something from this pain. Maybe I'm to be a testimony of hope. Maybe I'm to learn humility of some kind. I don't know yet, exactly. But what I do know is that the day I married Dear Hubby until literally our last night together I did the sme thing I always did: "Lord, I have so very much enjoyed your gift, but I acknowlege he is not mine--he's yours. I know you can take him in an instance when you will, so I give him to you in your safe keeping."
> 
> The Lord has him. I don't. And something you really need to consider is that if you really mean that God will have the final say and that He will do what's BEST for us, then that means that sometimes His answer really will be: "My good and faithful servant, my answer to your request is no." Very literally the Lord gives, and the Lord TAKES. People tend to forget that part...or they don't want Him to take so they avoid or ignore it. I know that my husband's passing will bring glory to the Lord. It already has. But that in no way means I don't suffer.
> 
> See what I mean?


I am SO SORRY for your loss AC. Wow. :crying: Your marriage and it's recovery is a wonderful legacy.


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## farsidejunky

sokillme said:


> I am SO SORRY for your loss AC. Wow. :crying: Your marriage and it's recovery is a wonderful legacy.


Indeed.


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## Sofa Sleeper

AffairCare, I hurt for you. I'm so sorry. 

As far as my situation is concerned, I do not believe all hope is lost by any means. All I can do is draw near to the Lord right now and trust that He has me and my children.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I may get some flack for this, but I want to be honest with how I believe. I am not looking for a debate by any means and please know I mean NO disrespect either. My heart and intentions are pure with this post. 

AffairCare, God did not cause your husband to have a heart attack and leave you forever. He allows things to happen, but I am confident He did not cause it to happen and did not take your sweet hubby from you. Just because it happened does not mean it is or was God's will. 

If that was the case, we could say that all terrible and hurtful things that happen are just God's will and we must accept it as such. Just because God allows sad and terrible things to happen does not mean His hand was in it. 

In that same sense, it was NOT God's will for me to hurt my husband and betray him. The current outcome of that is we are separated. So is the current outcome God's will simply because it IS what is happening? I don't think so. God is allowing it to happen, but it doesn't mean HE is causing this. I caused this. My choice. I also firmly believe that it is never God's will for a family to be torn apart or a marriage ruined. Will he allow it to happen, sure. Does it mean it is His will just because it is the outcome? No. Just as I had a freewill choice to sin against God and my husband, my husband has a freewill choice as well. His choice may not be God's will though just because it is the outcome. 

Having said all of that, when I say my trust is in the Lord it is because regardless of what WE choose, God still loves us and has mercy on us. If Rocket divorces me, I know that God still has me.

We all have a fight to fight, good and evil. And God is good. But sometimes the enemy wins. Doesn't mean it was God's will.

I have told Rocket that the wages of sin is death so anything he "does" to me short of killing me is still mercy.


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## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I may get some flack for this, but I want to be honest with how I believe. I am not looking for a debate by any means either.
> 
> AffairCare, God did not cause your husband to have a heart attack and leave you forever. He allows things to happen, but I am confident He did not cause it to happen and did not take your sweet hubby from you. Just because it happened does not mean it is or was God's will.
> 
> If that was the case, we could say that all terrible and hurtful things that happen are just God's will and we must accept it as such. Just because God allows sad and terrible things to happen does not mean His hand was in it.
> 
> In that same sense, it was NOT God's will for me to hurt my husband and betray him. The current outcome of that is we are separated. So is the current outcome God's will simply because it IS what is happening? I don't think so. God is allowing it to happen, but it doesn't mean HE is causing this. I caused this. My choice. I also firmly believe that it is never God's will for a family to be torn apart or a marriage ruined. Will he allow it to happen, sure. Does it mean it is His will just because it is the outcome? No. Just as I had a freewill choice to sin against God and my husband, my husband has a freewill choice as well. His choice may not be God's will though just because it is the outcome.
> 
> Having said all of that, when I say my trust is in the Lord it is because regardless of what WE choose, God still loves us and has mercy on us. If Rocket divorces me, I know that God still has me.


I agree with you in one respect here. God's intent was for Adam to never sin. There would have been no death. 

however it may be his will that you don't get back together though. Personally I would hope if I ask God to protect me, if I was your husband and he knew my wife had the potential to hurt me the way you hurt your husband, I would hope and have faith that God would keep her away from me and kill my love for her. If he knew that me being with her would cause me more sadness then the potential joy I could have from it. 

Again would you want your son to go back to a wife that cheated on him twice and (sorry to be harsh) in the tawdry way you did with a young guy? How do you think making that choice would impact him? Do you not see how dis-empowering that would be for him? I read you timeline. This thing was more then 2 bjs, he was continually inappropriate with you and around other people. You did more then 2 sex acts you empowering disrespected your husband. He was constantly physical in nature with you, around other people. People who presumably knew you were married and may have even known your husband. You did this when you lied to your pastor and social circle of friends. One of the most important things most men what form their wives and people in their lives is respect. You really didn't operate from that seemingly for a long time.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I cannot disagree with where my lack of respect was. You are correct. In my band's defense, none of them knew what was going on. However, there have been and continues to be corrections in my thought patterns (and I would love to pm you to share what those were AT THE TIME) that I justified then. They cannot ever be justified though. I was living in sin. Living double standard. My actions and immaturity disgust me now that God has humbled me in this.

About my son, if his wife was unfaithful but had truly repented and I mean TRULY and was doing everything she could to get fixed and well and was doing everything she could to fight for her husband and marriage and to establish boundaries to become safe, I would encourage him to love her and extend mercy. God does that to us and for us. When we sin and turn from that sin, humble ourselves and ask God to forgive us, He does AND He extends His arms open wide to us and receives us back. Earthly marriage is supposed to be a model of God's unfailing love for His bride. How many times have we all sinned against God and committed "adultery" against Him? How many times have we turned our backs on Him and betrayed Him? Our SIN separates us from God, but when we acknowledge our sin, confess it and REPENT from it and do a 180, He comes running to welcome His bride back. 

The story in Hosea is the perfect example of this. Also, the story of the prodigal son...the son was an idiot and went off living as a wayward fool. When he "came to himself" and had his rock bottom moment, he returned home to his father asking to just be a hired hand. Instead, his father saw him coming from a distance and ran to him with open arms and called for a feast and celebrated the return of his son with a huge party. Both are perfect examples of God's love for us and the love we are to emulate. 

In my situation, if I continued to be secretive or was still involved in inappropriate behaviors and exhibiting shady stuff, if I was not seeking professional help on my own and didn't acknowledge my behaviors and didn't get help for them, if I blamed Rocket for my failures instead of owning it as MY poor choices, if I was smearing his name to everyone, if I was still lying or covering or protecting myself, if I was trying to financially screw him, if I was unkind to him and hateful, if I was not remorseful or repentant and if I was not fighting for my marriage, THEN yes, Rocket should run for his life. But I am not.


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## sokillme

So at the very least Heosa was a prophet so the normal rules don't apply to him. After all God told him to marry this women. Romantic love doesn't seem to be part of the equation. There is also some doubt as to whether there are two women in the story or one. Most say two. Have you read the book? As a loving mother this is what you would want your son to experience? When you read that book and think about it honestly how do you think Heosa's life was? This is what you want your current husband to experience? There is no happy ending in the book, there really doesn't seem like he had a lot of joy in his life. Loving someone and wishing that life on them seem diametrically opposite things in my mind. I really don't understand your thinking on this. 

The truth about that book is that is more of an allegory of God's relationship with Israel anyway. You know how that turned out right? The book should not be used as a template on how to deal with adultery, Christian's are very wrong to do so. Especially when in the time of Heosa there were very clear commandments of how to deal with almost every other act of adultery in the history of mankind at that point. For everyone else in the time of Heosa adulterers were to be stoned to death. In this one instance God told one man to marry a hooker and some other commands. Yet Christians choose to pick the one person who was a prophet and very clearly doing this for a much greater purpose as the template. There are any number of special circumstances where God deviated from the general rule, however that was like an executive decision. To get the idea of how God would have dealt with the general circumstance you need to look at the commands. It's like picking Beyonce's life and expecting that to be the template. Doesn't make a lot of sense. 

Saying all that however is not me saying you should be stoned to death. Fortunately you were born in the new covenant as such your mercy is you are not stoned to death. In fact I believe God specifically made the out for Adultery as it was never his intention for anyone to have to live in such situation. He specifically mentions this exact situation so that there is no doubt. It was never his intention in the history of mankind for anyone to have to live in the situation. In the old testament he executed the adulterer so no divorce, and in the new he gave a clear out while still having mercy on the adulterer. 

It's also not me saying your husband should divorce you, though it's what I would do, what I have recommended and still do recommend he do. No the decision entirety rests on your husband's shoulders. I would point out however when and if he truly starts to move forward there will come a point were you will need to accept that your marriage is over and not to continue to push for R. That is the point right? God is very clear that the decision is in your husbands hands and you must accept that. 

I hope you have gone to all the people you discredited your husband with and told them the truth. You should. Do your older kids know? His and your parents? As you know Christians are very judgemental on people who separate and divorce. Much less so when they know there is adultery in the picture, much much less so when it is repeated. At least if your are protestant, which you seem to be. I would make sure he is cool with it though, some men (mistakenly to my mind) feel embarrassed when people know about it. For example you talk about the band not knowing but you very clearly state in your letter that the guy smacked your ass during practice and gave you long inappropriate hugs. How a married women lets that go on is beyond me, but when I read that as a husband I can't really think of many things that would be more disrespectful to me. 

Finally you have been working on this for about 2 months as far as I can tell. That is a very short time considering the lifetime of patterns you have put in place. Unlike some people on here 2 months of posting for forgiveness and going to IC to me is a ridiculous reason to think you are in any shape to be a good wife to anyone. I may feel differently after a few years and a large set of examples of changes in your behavior. I have just seen and read too many instances where the WS seem to change and maybe even does for a few years, only to fall back into the old coping mechanisms and ends up once again destroying their partners lives. Besides that how would your marriage change, at the time you did this you were very unhappy. I never got this logic, how would this terrible trauma you have both been through somehow help your marriage grow into a marriage that it never was in the first place? Why? Sounds like it was crap to begin with. Yes that does rarely happen, like one in 10,000, but in those circumstances the BS has a large investment in that happening for whatever reason. Your husband has indicated he is moving on. 

I mean no disrespect but people like you (serial cheaters) behave very much like alcoholics in the sense that they are always one drink away from falling off that wagon. I would never in good conscience recommend anyone stay with an alcoholic. That is just too much of a risk in my mind for me to morally recommend it. I don't think there is anything you could tell me here or in private that would change my mind on that. Yes there are people who do change for the better but in a situation like when you are posting on a message board where you can't read body language and you have a very shallow view of everything usually from one person's perspective (though not here), I think it is best to err on the side of caution when giving advice. The preponderance of evidence shows that the much safer bet for you husband is to move on. I read on another board you never see divorced persons posting wishing they didn't divorce but you see people who tried to R posting about how they wish they would not have all the time. 

This doesn't mean after you heal and change (meaning a years of work, and a commitment to a lifetime of therapy) that you can't find love again, but basing your life on 2 months of change is a huge risk. The kind thing to do in my mind is to let him have his freedom and support him, then wait and see. Be the best co-parent you can be and work on you so your younger kids can see a healthy version of their Mom and his ex wife. Be truthful about why the marriage didn't survive. Penance.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I respect your opinion. I am learning that everyone has one and they all differ greatly. That's ok. I can respect that because I have one myself. 

Because of Jesus, we are under a new covenant. Yes, divorce is permitted with adultery under the new covenant, but only because of their hardening of hearts. When hearts are hardened, love, mercy and forgiveness cannot flow. I will never ever believe that God WANTS divorce. He is a God of redemption and restoration first and foremost. He can and WILL heal the spouses and the marriage IF He is given room to do so....if the spouses are open to that. 

Whatever you feed grows. Feed on the problem and the sin and the negativity and hopelessness and it grows. Feed on redemption, love, healing and mercy and it grows. As a man thinks, so is he.

Yes, everyone knows I was the at fault party. Families, children, friends, pastors. Early on I went and apologized to my husband's family for everything and asked for their forgiveness. It was very early on and I deflected some blame on to my husband at the time. I wouldn't do that now, however, my heart was in the right place when I humbled myself and went to them though. I've just come a long ways since then. 

People make mistakes. We all do. Some of us struggle more than others. That doesn't mean we are awful people that want to hurt others. We are human. We have sinful natures. Truly, sin is sin. It all separates us from God. It all grieves the heart of God. None of us is too far gone though. I am not too far gone. I know what led to my poor choices clear as day. I recognize the problem now and I have and am correcting it. No more. NO MORE. I am and will be a candidate for reconciliation should my husband choose that. If he doesn't, I will be a happy, stronger single mama...that still loves him. 

Either way, love wins.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Just adding and then I have to get to the grocery store lol, that I hate debates and Biblical debates are the worst. Rocket knows how I loathe confrontation too lol. I'm just gonna say that my belief and it is my belief, is that although God permits divorce, it is NOT his first choice. Period.

I cannot know what God has in store for my future right now, but I do know His plan for me is good. I know I am forgiven and redeemed. I know the chains that had me bound and tormented are gone. I know I am walking in His grace. I know I will not hurt my husband again. My husband can choose either way though.


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## sokillme

i am not debating you. I just think your priorities are wrong. Work on fixing you, put the choice of R out of you hands because it is. You need to accept though that sometime restoration may have to come with someone else.

I have to say this, it doesn't say God permitted divorce for adultery because of hardness of heart, that is the other kind of divorce (not adultery). In the old testament which were the rules that Jesus was specifically talking about here there was no divorce for Adultery so in this instance he was not talking about adultery. There was no marriage after adultery because assuming the law was followed, the adulterer was dead. In the new testament he has mercy for the adulterer but he doesn't hold the BS to the marriage not because of the hardness of their hearts but because he never has the intention of anyone living with someone who cheated on them. Ever. It seems pretty clear to me that God doesn't think the marriage contract stands after cheating if the BS doesn't want it. He never has. In both instances he provided a way for the BS to leave judgment free. 

I am hard on this point because so many Christians seem to think just like you. Yes technically you can divorce but God doesn't really want you to, if you do you are letting him down. So Christians stay because of guilt when there should be non, or others give them grief for leaving. That goes against scripture and just plain wrong. If you have been cheated on you are free to leave knowing you are not disappointing God or doing anything wrong. Actually he specifically made it so you don't have to feel guilt. He put the verse there for that very reason. Once the covenant is broken it is very clear that God wants the BS to be able to make the choice for themselves.

I am going to layoff now. I think you are trying and that is a good thing. This thread is not really about any of this anyway. You need to really focus on getting better. Changing yourself and your patterns as they are life long. I will be much more impressed if you are on here two years from now, still working no matter what your husband does. If you do that then I whole wholeheartedly believe you can have a joyful life moving forward. I wish that for you.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you


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## thedope

Why do people play the religion card AFTER cheating? I be never cheated, I wouldn't, I believe in the lord but God has nothing to do with people cheating or BS reaction to cheating. You want to appreciate the lord, do the right thing.


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## sokillme

thedope said:


> Why do people play the religion card AFTER cheating? I be never cheated, I wouldn't, I believe in the lord but God has nothing to do with people cheating or BS reaction to cheating. You want to appreciate the lord, do the right thing.


It's unfortunate. Getting saved is not a panacea for all your problems. The promise of freedom from the shame of sin is meant in the afterlife not necessarily here on earth. When you do despicable things to others it is healthy and even good an righteous that you should feel shame when you think about that. You deserve to. Eventually it will not be all the time, but in the beginning yes, this is part of the healing. Feeling that way proves that there is changing. Time will eventually make it less intense but even then when you get a clear thought about it, I would think a person who truly understands the pain they caused would feel a tinge of shame for that. That's great you should! Accept it. 

It also doesn't mean freedom from consequences. There are plenty of people in the bible who God loved, David comes to mind ,whose sin wrecked terrible havoc on this family and life. Those were the consequences. That wasn't the enemy that was the consequences.

A lot of times religion can be seen as a kind of out, or quick fix. When used this way it's just another form of rug sweeping. That doesn't mean it can be good and very beneficial but unless you deal with the problems and underlying symptoms you are going to be stuck doing the same thing. Most of the time this stuff comes down to deep seeded emotional problems, that take lifetimes of work to fix.


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## Affaircare

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I may get some flack for this, but I want to be honest with how I believe. I am not looking for a debate by any means and please know I mean NO disrespect either. My heart and intentions are pure with this post.


I completely understand that your heart and intentions are pure, and that you are making a statement, not asking for debate. I hope you understand I do not want debate either--I really do not have a place for that in my life right now. However, I would also like to take the chance to state what I believe and why. 



> AffairCare, God did not cause your husband to have a heart attack and leave you forever. He allows things to happen, but I am confident He did not cause it to happen and did not take your sweet hubby from you. Just because it happened does not mean it is or was God's will.


I do not agree with this or believe it. I believe when we say that God is sovereign that He truly is the supreme power and authority of the universe AND that He is actively involved in and chooses everything that occurs. God most definitely DID cause my husband to have a heart attack, as it was His will to have Dear Hubby in His presence for His glory. He gave me the joy of Dear Hubby's love, and at His choosing and in His timing, He took back what was His all along. Dear Hubby has not left me forever--my life on this planet will be a breath of wind compared to the eternity we will spend together in the presence of our God serving Him. I look forward to being reunited with him and I know that when we are reunited we'll look at this 80, 90 or 100 years and think it was so short! EVERYTHING that happens is precisely God's will. I do not for a moment believe that He sits back and takes His hands off the wheel and gives us control. That would put us into the place of God, and that is not appropriate. We are NOT God. We come into this world naked, and we return tothe dust naked. He gives. He takes. Blessed be the name of the Lord. 



> If that was the case, we could say that all terrible and hurtful things that happen are just God's will and we must accept it as such. Just because God allows sad and terrible things to happen does not mean His hand was in it.


Again I disagree, and here's an example. You and I might say that those poor Israelites in slavery in Egypt--well it was terrible and hurtful and God would never do that to people He loved. We might say that the Pharoah rose to rulership without God's hand...even AGAINST God's plan! And yet, if Joseph had not been sold into slavery, then all the rest of the "future Israelites" would have died of starvation--that was definitely God's miraculous plan. And once the famine hit and they all moved to Egypt, they all survived and multiplied! Again, God miraculous plan. And once they multiplied too much, Pharoah made them slaves and you might be tempted to think "Huh maybe not God...I don't know..." but that was also the Pharoah under whom MOSES grew and learned and studied! He would not have been the man he was if he had not had the teaching he did in the house of Pharoah. God SPECIFICALLY worked so that the nation of Israel experienced pain so the man He wanted for their leader would have what he needed in order to lead them. And God also specifically worked in the nation to make them tough and durable. And God even moved the exact Pharoah into place so that HE--the Lord God Almighty--would have a chance to stretch forth HIS arm and show His mighty strength to the entire world! 

God didn't just "sit back and allow people to suffer"--He was sovereign and directly involved in this entire plan, which made Moses into the man who wrote the first five books of the Bible and delivered the Law, and which was a major part in God's Salvation Plan. The difference that I perceive in my belief is that God's Plan can sometimes span generations or even millenia. The world doesn't always turn on whether I shed a tear--He has a MUCH bigger plan in mind. However, that being said, I beleive not only does God work His larger, overall Salvation Plan, but in each individuals life, He ACTIVELY will do what is best for them to be become more and more and more godly and Christ-like. For me, I'll be blunt, I believe His individual plan for Dear Hubby was complete--He wanted Dear Hubby to do this and this and this to raise his children and teach me, and then He took Dear Hubby home, and now He's saying to Dear Hubby: "Hey, NOW watch what I'm going to do with HER! She's going to really serve me! Watch!" 



> In that same sense, it was NOT God's will for me to hurt my husband and betray him. The current outcome of that is we are separated. So is the current outcome God's will simply because it IS what is happening? I don't think so. God is allowing it to happen, but it doesn't mean HE is causing this. I caused this. My choice. I also firmly believe that it is never God's will for a family to be torn apart or a marriage ruined. Will he allow it to happen, sure. Does it mean it is His will just because it is the outcome? No. Just as I had a freewill choice to sin against God and my husband, my husband has a freewill choice as well. His choice may not be God's will though just because it is the outcome.


Again, I politely disagree. I do not believe that God was pleased when I was unfaithful to Dear Hubby, but I whole-heartedly DO believe that God willed it and so it happened. Anything that happens is the will of God. And it happened because He knew we would seek Him, repent, do the work to recover...AND BRING GLORY TO HIM with our living testimony. We were not seeking God when I was unfaithful. He had to do that to us in order for us to become obedient children and return to Him, and that is His ultimate goal, to make us more and more in line with Him, His will, His thoughts and His actions. 

It seems to me like the way you believe, God has to bend to you and what you want. I mean, you may say you want God's will, but what if God's will is for you to divorce and live through the sorrow and humiliation and struggle of divorce so that it brings you to Him? What if God's will is for you to lose your husband in order to GAIN HIM? See...He is not a vending machine. We don't decide for Him, tell Him what we want, and He just "allows" stuff to happen. He sees us as His rebellious children, and will sometimes discipline us with something hurtful or sorrowful so that the longer term goal of growing more sanctified is achieved. 

I can't tell why God took my husband yet. But I do know it wasn't just "allowed" -- there was and is a specific reason why and that in my understanding God is in control of it all. 



> Having said all of that, when I say my trust is in the Lord it is because regardless of what WE choose, God still loves us and has mercy on us. If Rocket divorces me, I know that God still has me.
> 
> We all have a fight to fight, good and evil. And God is good. But sometimes the enemy wins. Doesn't mean it was God's will.


Again, I do not agree. Well I agree that God loves us and is merciful! And I agree that no matter what comes in our lives, God "still has us." But I do not believe for a moment that the enemy wins. I believe Christ's accomplishment on the cross defeated sin and death... and the enemy. I think the enemy's main weapon is to make us think that WE are God and WE get to decide and WE tell God what we want and WE get our needs met--and as usual the enemy has it bass ackward. God tells US what HE wants and what He wants occurs and He has told us he will listen to our requests and He has given us the example of being a servant and meeting the needs of others! WE are the ones who rebel against, God! My trust is in the Lord because my Lord is in charge of all this and commands all this and is involved in all this and WORKS THROUGH ALL THIS. We introduced sin and all the resulting mess, and even then He was working His plan, which is the Salvation Plan which is a millenia-long plan to bring Him glory. 

Now, I've stated my case. I do not want to debate but I hope you will think about what I wrote just to maybe consider it, as I have considered yours.


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## Affaircare

sokillme said:


> I am going to layoff now. I think you are trying and that is a good thing. This thread is not really about any of this anyway. You need to really focus on getting better. Changing yourself and your patterns as they are life long. I will be much more impressed if you are on here two years from now, still working no matter what your husband does. If you do that then I whole wholeheartedly believe you can have a joyful life moving forward. I wish that for you.


I could not have said this better myself. I also see you trying, @Sofa Sleeper, and that truly is a good thing. The only reason I bring up the things I bring up is because in your old "way of thinking" you were in the pattern of thinking that ultimately resulted in adultery. Therefore, there really does have to be an entirely "new way of thinking" or the old pattern will return. Ephesians 4:28 tells us " Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need" and what Paul demonstrates is that it is not enough for a thief to just stop stealing. That is roughly where you are at now--you have had a pattern of sin, and you've STOPPED the sin...and that is good! But what does Paul say the thief must do? They have to learn to WORK and where their hands had been used to tear down and take away from others, now those same hands must learn to build up, be useful AND SHARE with others! Not only do we need to stop sinning, but we need to learn to THINK and ACT godly!

So yep, two months in is very short, but it is two months more than never starting. And there are still many things you need to learn and change, and that will begin with changing how you think about God and who He is and who YOU are in relation to Him.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Clearly there are misconceptions here and ones I do not and can not believe or even align my faith with in good conscience. That is not a personal dig against anyone. I am responsible for myself and to say that me being unfaithful was God's will is not something I will believe in or be convinced of. Everything that happens isn't God. There is a real enemy...you know the one that tempts us? When we reject God and SIN it is NOT God's will. It goes against God. Why would we have ever needed Jesus to redeem us from sin if it was God's will that we all sin anyway? Why would it be God's will for your marriage to be restored after infidelity and not mine? DriftingOn's, but not mine? God is no respecter of persons. If it was God's will for you to cheat, then why didn't you accept it as His will and divorce? Why fight it if it's God's will? If it is God's will for people to be sick and you believe He CAUSED IT, then why take medicine to relieve pain or go to the doctor, receive treatment to seek a cure or ask for prayer for that person? Wouldn't that be not accepting the will of God? Was it God's will for Adam to sin? No. Is it God's will for marriages to fail? No. He can take situations and turn what the enemy intended for bad into good, but He does not cause the bad or cause us to make poor choices. For instance, if it is or was God's will for me to cheat, then why is everyone here jumping all over me? It was God's will. Let it be. HECK TO THE NO!! It is never His will for us to make poor choices and to sin! Sin separates us from God...why would He want that? It is never His will that we are sick either. If it was His will for sickness and disease and He CAUSES it, then why did Jesus heal the lepers, give sight to the blind or heal the woman with the issue of blood? Wasn't their illness God's will? Why fight it then? Why did He take stripes on His back for our healing IF sickness was and is God's doing? Why would we need a Savior at all? 

Anyway, I cannot receive advice into my heart when it does not line up with the Word of God and what I strongly believe to be true. God loves us. We are His children and He is not a child abuser. He is sovereign and He is Lord and He is GOOD. His plan for mankind IS redemption and restoration. His will IS for my marriage to be healed. I believe that 100% because I know the nature of my God. It was never His will for me to betray my husband and therefore it was never His will for us to be separated or divorced. His will was for a healthy marriage and family and still is. He doesn't change His mind...He changes minds and hearts to align with His. 

I can't keep going in circles here because it's not helping anyone. God knows our hearts (mine and my husband's) and right now, those are the only two in our situation that matter (aside from our sweet babies). My focus is on not just getting well, but being well and loving my family. I trust God with our lives knowing He is good and that no matter what, He has me and is for me. He makes beautiful things out of dust. He gives beauty for ashes. He restores. He mends. He redeems. He heals. He forgives. He renews our minds and sets a right spirit within us. 

I am learning how to fully overcome sin and issues of my past. I so do appreciate the words of wisdom many here have given me. I have learned a LOT from many of you. It's like someone told me here in a PM, take what applies and helps and spit out the rest. Not all advice is good advice...even my Rocket knows this. 

My hope is in the Lord! I have faith that God will remain true to His promises and to the promise He spoke to me concerning my family. 

Now, I'm going to go back to sleep. Well, try to at least while sandwiched between our 8 year old and our 6 year old.


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## Thestarsarefalling

I am confused. It sounds like you came to this forum to state your side of the story. Sounds also like your husband came to this forum after discovering your infidelity and got lots of advice to leave. Maybe you think convincing this forum it will somehow convince your husband of your sincerity? Couple of problems with that. 1) this isn't a competition and no polls will be taken to see who is more convincing. 2) most people here having been cheated on. You made bad choices and no amount of guilt, spirituality talk, or justification can take it back. It's difficult to even read your post because you seem to have a problem with having consequences. So what if your husband is doing well. Good for him. You choose to end that relationship by your actions. Words are cheap. You no longer have any right to him. Is it possible to recover after an affair? Maybe, but it's not common. When people say they did it I wonder how long it will last. Cheaters tend to cheat again. Maybe it's 5 years later, maybe it's ten. Those people thought they recovered too. At what point can they let their guard down and say they are truely recovered? Never and that's no way to live. 

Hope you are genuine and make your life and choices better but leave your husband out of it. Focus on you and why you are making poor choices. Get in therapy.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I am aware this is a tough crowd. I've read many of posts and comments on other threads made by most of you. This forum and website is full of hurting people, many who are bitter and angry over the loss and betrayal they've personally experienced. I'm so sorry. You cannot read through the forums without feeling that extreme pain. 

I have received excellent advice and help from a handful of you that have taken the time and effort to invest into my life and recovery and even into my future and for that I am SO thankful. It took courage for me to come back here and apologize for my stupidity and to humble myself and ask for help and the help I have received has been amazing. 

I am in therapy and have been for 10 weeks now. My therapist is fantastic and just told me Wednesday that he is seeing me grow so fast and I'll just tell you that Wednesday was a very emotional and tough session. He too is a Christian and gives me sound psychological advice as well as advice from a Godly perspective. 

For now, my focus is on me becoming whole and complete with or without my husband in the picture. I am getting there a little more everyday too. Should my husband decide to save our marriage, he will be getting a much healthier version of the woman he loves...one that fully honors him in every way. Should he decide to sever our tie forever, I will walk away knowing that I was made stronger and that I did all that I could to make things right for my marriage and my family and that I will be okay. 

The love my husband still has for me even now is the most amazing gift as it is. It is real love. Nobody could ever tell me differently. I hold that in my heart everyday. 

At the end of the day, I know I am loved. I love myself and I am proud of myself for the changes I'm making and the woman I am becoming, God loves me and is making a miracle out of me, my children love me and even though they know I have failed our family they still think I hung the moon, and my husband still loves me even now. I am blessed beyond measure. Mercy has already saved me. I am humbled and grateful for that.


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## farsidejunky

thedope said:


> Why do people play the religion card AFTER cheating? I be never cheated, I wouldn't, I believe in the lord but God has nothing to do with people cheating or BS reaction to cheating. You want to appreciate the lord, do the right thing.


The same reason any people who follow Christ sin:

They are people.


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## 3Xnocharm

thedope said:


> Why do people play the religion card AFTER cheating? I be never cheated, I wouldn't, I believe in the lord but God has nothing to do with people cheating or BS reaction to cheating. You want to appreciate the lord, do the right thing.


Personally, I find it insincere BS. I think people believe if they go all God gung-ho, then that will somehow absolve them and make them somehow less despicable. God doesnt have a thing to do with what they did, and God cant fix it.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Sin and sinful nature had to do with it, not God. God did send Jesus to yes, fix it and redeem us. So God can and does "fix" us and heal us and heals marriages every single day.

ETA: It doesn't matter how anyone views me. I only care how God sees me right now. He says I am valuable to Him. I am priceless. I cannot imagine walking through this valley without Him with me. He is the One making me brave. It is not my own strength because I have close to none. He is strong enough for both of us. 
https://youtu.be/DL7WLyCzql8


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## farsidejunky

3Xnocharm said:


> Personally, I find it insincere BS. I think people believe if they go all God gung-ho, then that will somehow absolve them and make them somehow less despicable. God doesnt have a thing to do with what they did, and God cant fix it.


Just like anything else in life...

If you invest style rather than substance, you will look the part but never be the part.


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## Sofa Sleeper

And when you have a true encounter with the Lord and allow Him to wreck your heart, you lay down the style and long for substance and not just an acknowledgement of God, but a living relationship with Him. I have been raised in a Godly home and have known God and believed in Him, but not until now have I honestly sought Him with my whole heart. If God used this horrible time to draw me to Him into a covenant relationship with Him, then love has won already. 

I never felt loved because I never fully accepted His love for me. It sounded nice, but I didn't feel qualified to fully have that kind of love. Now that I KNOW I am so loved by Him, that is more than enough for me. I am complete in Him. My worth and value and identity is found in Him...not in my husband or any other person. The love of my husband is just a sweet bonus.


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## turnera

So...when did this miraculous clarity come about? And how?


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## oneMOreguy

farsidejunky said:


> Just like anything else in life...
> 
> If you invest style rather than substance, you will look the part but never be the part.


This is a simple statement, yet so true. When a sinner quickly changes direction in life, it is so hard to immediately distinguish substance from style. Time will show the truth. Christianity lends itself to this issue, since although we are all sinners, there are no spiritual consequences, since Christ has taken on our just punishment. Sinners do need to keep in mind that Christ has not accepted our earthly consequences. Sofa Sleeper hopefully is keeping all this in mind. She wants her family and marrage.....God cares about her soul. She has a mountain to climb re her marriage I am afraid, and God will not be carrying her there. ...it's up to her. 

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## Sofa Sleeper

Turnera, it came from spending time with the Lord. Lots of time with Him. Also, my IC really ministered to me on Wednesday about ACCEPTING the love of God. Everyday that I wake up, I am getting closer and closer to who He wants me to be. Little things are even changing inside of me...even the way I respond to my teenage boys, the true compassion I am feeling for others, the peace I am finding in the waiting, and the way I am viewing myself. 

I think I've probably shared this on here before, but ever since I can ever remember, I have felt unloved. Even as a very young child. I've felt like a disappointment and would try even harder to please. So fully accepting the love from the Lord has been surface only. Knowing He loved me, but not truly receiving His love. I didn't feel I deserved it. Not anymore. His love alone is what is carrying me right now and is leading me into the next season. It's very strange, but even though I have lost family (Rocket's family) and even though my Rocket does not live at home, I have never felt more loved. It's not the love from people I was craving...I needed to accept the love of God for myself. The gaping hole I had needed to filled by only Him. It could only be satisfied by Him. He is making me whole. 

I still miss my Rocket tremendously, but I'm okay and will be okay.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Onemoreguy:

Believe me when I tell you that I am living in and with those consequences every day. They affect our daily lives.


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## Affaircare

@Sofa Sleeper

I wish you well. I believe it would be best for me to step out since your mind and heart are closed. I pray that God will give you the strength and courage to endure. 


Faithfully, 

Cindy


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## sokillme

You will be much more successful to start with something like, 

I look for validation from men because it's easy, because I am attractive and men are drawn to me because of that, but this is not really fixing my problems which come from a multitude of reasons. It's a very temporary high like a drug that leads to destruction. 
I have continually in my life had unappropriated boundaries. Again because I am craving that high. Because I am sad. Because I really don't know how to fix this. 
I have always been very good at charming people and getting out of trouble, because I am attractive had a charming personality, and am a good singer. I also know how to say stuff that makes me seem sympathetic. When I am really in doubt I show weakness and that sympathy others have for me cause them to layoff. Or I talk about God and how he has changed me, and my faith. But it's all a show. 
My poor boundaries have continually put me in bad positions with my family and both my spouses. (yes the first one may have been a jerk, but you still cheated which is a sin) 
I am not sure how to fix this as I am at the point were charm isn't going to work anymore. I have used up all my box of tools but I can't get out of what I have done. 
I have hurt most of the people I love with MY actions. I hurt my husband and my kids. I CHOSE to do this not the enemy, not temptation, not fate. I DID, because I don't know how to deal with my sadness and confusion. At the time I didn't think I would get caught and I didn't care, I wanted what I wanted the consequences be damned. 
I have a problem, I need help. I have to fix this or eventually I am going to destroy my life completely. Worse then I already have. But I have no idea as I don't know how to be authenticate because it's so much easier not to be. 
God please help me, not my way but yours. I am going to start by just telling the truth, period. No matter how painful. I am just going to start telling how I really feel, and what is really going on. 

Now that is just a guess from the posts I have read here from you and your husband. I bet I am not far off though. This stuff pretty much follows the same pattern, and I have been around plenty of people who had these types of issues. 

Anyway something like that, THAT is the attitude you need to have. Cut the crap and all the spiritual facade. Again I have been around it long enough to know it's a deflection tactic. God should not be used as a shade to block the sunshine of the truth. You are not at church, and this isn't going to help you here. At the present time you are not in any position to be proselytizing. That is not the point of this thread. At least before you were showing some humility. 

There are good people on here with good advice. Most of us are not beating up on you because you cheated, at least for the most part, but because you are not being honest (to say it in a nice way so I don't get banned). Sorry but it's true. The devil didn't make you do what you did. Enough. I DO think there are some tragic things in your past that helped you get here. I also think being a child of ministers who probably had a vested interest in you seeming perfect probably robbed you of some tools you needed to deal with difficult situations. Not unlike many children of ministers. Sounds like your Dad has some issues as well. I say that will all respect and not to be cruel but only because of how he tragically chose to deal with his pain. This leads me to believe that he didn't have good tools to deal with difficult situations as well, which probably explains why you were never taught how. Some people use spirituality as a kind of shallow catch all for issues and problems, this seems to be what you are trying to do now. But he doesn't have to be used that way, but YOU have to make the effort. God can be your rock in a time of trouble, but you need a deeper understanding then just positive catch phrases. 

My point is God is not going to just magically make these issues go away. He doesn't work like that. You have to humble yourself and stop trying to drive. And you are basically pulling out of the driveway on a drive across the country on your journey to get better. Unfortunately you seem to be already anticipating the finish line. You haven't even started the work yet. 

Have you told the counselor whom you are with about all this stuff. I don't mean, my husband ignored me. I mean, "I don't know how to cope with any of this." That is what I am talking about. The stuff that happened in you teen years which I can probably guess at that you are not talking about. Your real fears? It's really hard to tell because from your posts you seem to minimizing your issues with your counselor's permission. If your counselor really is this naive then you need a much better one, one that can cut through your "deflections" (again to be nice). You need to be called on this and forced to see it and change it. You need to open yourself like a book so you can really work on this stuff. You need to admit to the counselor and yourself that you do some of this stuff because you like how it makes you feel. I hope your counselor is a clinically trained one, and not just some church one who went to seminary. I don't have a problem with one who is both, but you need someone who has had training in psychology. 

I for one don't buy any of this stuff you have been posting lately, I think you are doing right now what you have always done. You are redoubling your charm offensive because you desperately want the hard work to go away, because it is too painful and you are afraid. It may even work on some, but it isn't going to fix ****. This is much bigger then you had an unhappy marriage, this is life long and a part of your MO. If you really want to get better you need to acknowledge that and begin the real work.


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## 3Xnocharm

sokillme said:


> I for one don't buy any of this stuff you have been posting lately, I think you are doing right now what you have always done. You are redoubling your charm offensive because you desperately want the hard work to go away, because it is too painful and you are afraid. It may even work on some, but it isn't going to fix ****. This is much bigger then you had an unhappy marriage, this is life long and a part of your MO. If you really want to get better you need to acknowledge that and begin the real work.


I dont either. And I agree with what you said about seeking validation from men. 




Sofa Sleeper said:


> And when you have a true encounter with the Lord and allow Him to wreck your heart, you lay down the style and long for substance and not just an acknowledgement of God, but a living relationship with Him. I have been raised in a Godly home and have known God and believed in Him, but not until now have I honestly sought Him with my whole heart. If God used this horrible time to draw me to Him into a covenant relationship with Him, then love has won already.
> 
> I never felt loved because I never fully accepted His love for me. It sounded nice, but I didn't feel qualified to fully have that kind of love. Now that I KNOW I am so loved by Him, that is more than enough for me. I am complete in Him. My worth and value and identity is found in Him...not in my husband or any other person. The love of my husband is just a sweet bonus.


This sounds to me like brainwashed bullcrap. Its like suddenly you are in a cult, chanting words other people have told you to say because you think its easier to follow what someone else tells you to do and think, rather than to do the actual work on fixing your issue... seeking your self worth in men. I am sorry for what you have gone through in your past, and I really hope you are able to work with a (better) therapist to resolve things. You can try to convince yourself that God fixes things, but he doesnt... the reality is that YOU are the only one who can fix you, and unless you work to change your behavior and your mindset, you will fall right back in with the next man who shows you a little attention.


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## Sofa Sleeper

That is an unfair assessment. You do not know the work, the PRIVATE work I have put in and am putting in. My counselor is a licensed therapist and knows more about me and my issues than any of you here. I do not have to tell all to any of you. 

My relationship with God isn't for show or to charm anyone. You want truth? I was about to kill myself underneath the very same tree Rocket and I took our family pictures under. I had the shard of glass in my hand ready to slit my wrists because I could not deal with the shame and pain of what I had caused with my choices. I could not deal with the pain I had caused my husband and children and thought everyone would be better off without me. I was about to carry out the legacy of my family. My grandfather committed suicide and then his son, my daddy, did as well. God used my ex husband's new wife to speak life and hope into me while I was under that tree. That evening I cried out to God to save me FROM MYSELF. That's when my personal healing began. 

You have no idea where I've been..The traumatic events in my life that I have lived through or the heartbeat of who I am. You don't see the tears I'm crying this very second that are dripping on to my cell phone as I type this. You don't know me from Adam. That's ok though. I'm not after your approval or anyone's approval. I care more about the beauty that is found in who I am than I do about outward beauty. Contrary to what you and others may believe, I really am a great person that loves her family immensely. Those who really know me would tell you that I am sweet and it's genuine. It's because I am. I am not a snobby, haughty person at all and I have never been. I'm ok playing second fiddle. 

You must believe I am a ***** too because I made mistakes in sexual nature. You want more truth? I'm 41 years old and have only had sex with 3 people in my whole life. Two of which were my husband. Is any of this your business though? Why is it your business to decide whether or not I am truly leaning on Jesus? Were you here tonight when I prayed and poured my heart out to Him? Nobody was. Does that mean it didn't happen?

The sad thing I'm seeing about TAM is that even when someone is genuine and trying the hardest to be better everyday, they can't even get their feet off the ground here. It's like our lives are sick entertainment. Grab the popcorn, the Rocket & Sofa Show is on...let's watch them crash and burn. Rocket and Sofa are two incredible people that love each other and adore their children. People, all people, make mistakes and make bad decisions. That does not make us bad people incapable of change. 

There are a handful of you and you know who you are, that have really helped me and I am so thankful for you. Thank you for believing in me and even in my marriage. Your kindness, tough love and wisdom have been what I needed right now. Thank you.


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## sandcastle

SS- why do you deserve a second chance at this?

You don't deserve forgiveness - you shattered a sacred bond. 
There is no such thing as Shattered Bond Crazy Glue.

Go try to redeem yourself on the next set of vows.

Out of all the threads on TAM - this one is THE shining example of Narcs on Crack. You can't help but rubber-neck and every BS is going to get triggered.


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## Sofa Sleeper

None of us deserve forgiveness. Your sin nailed Jesus to that tree right along with mine.


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## EllaSuaveterre

Sofa, sweetheart, there's something to be said for self-care. I know you've got kids, but do you think you could carve out just three hours a week for yourself? Get a massage. Go to therapy. Have a glass of wine in a tub full of bubbles. Do one of those things in each hour, once a week. Something. You need to unwind. And when _I_ have to say that, you know it's serious because I am as high-strung as a chihuahua on the Fourth of July!!

(I don't quite understand why you're suddenly religious now, but...) Maybe God wants you to take time out for yourself, yes? 

3 John 1:2	
Beloved, I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in good health, as it goes well with your soul.

See? It's kosher! (Wrong phrase, I think, but my point stands.)

I'm going to go have a bubble bath myself, and after that I will sleep in the same bed with my husband even though it freaks me out to no end right now. Maybe let's self-care and then conquer our miseries together, yes?


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. I try to carve out time for me. Usually it's during my toddler's nap time. I force myself to NOT use that time to clean more or fold the towels in the dryer, etc. I make some coffee and read the Bible and other books, sing in my garage, or sometimes just nap myself. I go to therapy for one hour every Wednesday. My therapist allows me to call or text him in between too if needed and I have "needed" a time or two. 

PS: I'm not "suddenly" religious. It's been a part of who I am forever. I came back fully to the Lord though when I hit rock bottom, yes. He is all I have that is secure and so my trust lies in Him.

ETA: you are blessed to be sleeping in the same bed as your husband. I would give anything to be doing the same. Anything. I'm on the sofa with our 8 year old daughter snuggled up next to me. She wanted to sleep with mama tonight.


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## sandcastle

Sofa Sleeper said:


> None of us deserve forgiveness. Your sin nailed Jesus to that tree right along with mine.



I stole the Snicker bar out of the older brothers Halloween bag and I blamed it on the little brother.

Me and my religious belief have forgiven me.


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## 3Xnocharm

Sofa, YOU are the one who came on and posted here. You came here and posted to defend yourself, not to seek help. Your husband came here seeking advice with how to handle what YOU had done, and you didnt like how he was making you look. (all he was doing was telling his truth) Sorry if you dont like what you are hearing from everyone, we all read with a different perspective, and really, there is no single right answer to most of it. Your posts come across to me as insincere and selfish. To others, you are full of remorse and going above and beyond to get right. I think the real truth and the real answer probably lies somewhere in between these two views. 

I was in a marriage almost exactly like what you described in your opening post. I also cheated, and I didnt get caught. I ended my marriage when I started up a second affair, because my own disgusting behavior made me realize just how done I was and how dead my marriage had been for a long time. I have never cheated on a partner since. (this was almost 20 years ago) Its a damn hard thing to live with, even when the partner doesnt find out. I guess this is why I have been advising you from the beginning to just let him go. The way you stormed in here about how unhappy you had been in the marriage didnt say to me that you were SO in love with your husband, as we are now being told. I think you have been in panic mode, because you got caught and because you realized how wrong it was. Guilt does not equate love. How grateful would you feel to have him back if your marriage went right back to what it was? 

So anyway that is the cliff's notes version of my story and my perspective. I am sorry if you dont like my view, maybe its time I stepped away from your thread. But just know that when you put your situation out on a public forum, that you are going to get all kinds of opinions, and there is no way you are going to like or agree with all of them. We are all honest here and sometimes it hurts.


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## EllaSuaveterre

Sofa Sleeper said:


> ETA: you are blessed to be sleeping in the same bed as your husband. I would give anything to be doing the same. Anything. I'm on the sofa with our 8 year old daughter snuggled up next to me. She wanted to sleep with mama tonight.


You've got a point. I guess once it's gone, it's gone, huh? I need to enjoy him and love him while he's still here.

At the moment I'm afraid to get too attached and close to my husband because he's having health issues and I'm (admittedly, probably irrationally) afraid that he's going to die or get very sick and I don't want to lose him. I tend to want to run away from my problems rather than deal with them. I've been sleeping in separate beds so I can pretend he's not having health problems and block it out, and I guess that's not healthy. So I'm thinking maybe I should just go in there and be with him in spite of the fear of getting too close and of losing him. Even though just the idea of doing that makes me nervous and I'm staying awake typing just to avoid going to bed. So I know I'm not being rational, because not being near him isn't going to make my fears any less (or more) likely to happen. 

But so many people have lost their husbands lately and I feel like not spending time with my love while I can is sort of an insult to them in a way.

Anyway, enough about me. You can read more on the BPD thread I posted in the mental health forum.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I have ALWAYS loved Rocket. He even put in his posts that I have always been so loving and devoted. You cannot "act" like that for 10 years. It is real. Even now he still says he knows that I love him. I do. I didn't screw up because I didn't love him. I screwed up because I liked the attention I was getting. I wanted that type of attention from my husband. I was harboring resentment towards him, but I never stopped loving him. I made bad decisions out of selfishness, self pity, insecurity and immaturity. I own it. I still love my husband with all of my heart though. 

Ok this is exhausting. I must get to sleep for real.


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## sokillme

Sofa, 

First off, I do think I have an idea what you went through. That is why I said you I hope you did dig down deep and told your counselor everything. All of it no stone left unturned. I also know you can't get better in 12 weeks. You sound like you think you are just going to white knuckle this because now you had a spiritual awakening. I trying to tell you that that will not be enough. I am actually afraid for you because you don't seem to get that. My hope for you is that you genuinely change but you must realize that this is going to take a lifetime of work. 

You need to really deal with the issues. It's good that you are addressing them, but saying stuff like the enemy tempted me and I failed is not really dealing with what is going on. I have no doubt that you love Rocket but I also think you need to stop thinking of yourself as like this person who was hurt and lashed out and made one mistake. You need to start thinking of yourself more like an alcoholic. You obviously have developed patterns that got you to this place. 

For instance the issue with this young guy didn't start with what you did in the car, it's started when you allowed yourself to start to enjoy his attention. Right there is where you started to do wrong. Right there was when you needed to stop it. Now I get it you felt emotionally abandoned. Now maybe Rocket wasn't there for you, or maybe because of your history you were looking for the kind of emotional support that no one could fill, because there is real damage there and it isn't possible to fix that with a husbands love. But the answer was to tell Rocket or if he wasn't listening, move out. It wasn't to seek it elsewhere. You should also ask yourself why you didn't have guilt. I mean real guilt that would have stopped you. Is it because of how you think about sex? Is it something for you and Rocket or is it something you can use to get something you want. It is because of how you think about yourself? Is it because you really don't think part of yourself as something that belonged to your husband? 

The bottom line is you need to deal with what is going on with you really. Why are you in such pain. Why do you feel so unloved, or why did you. I get and agree with you that you have been forgiven from sin but you need to work on the emotional issues. You need to brake the cycle. You also need to see this more then just you went off the rails for a few weeks. It's more then that. Again that doesn't mean you can't fix it. I believe you can and want to, I never said you didn't. I just don't think you are going about it the right way. I think mostly because you are scared. It's time to be brave. Brave enough to be honest about it. 

Please stop all the bravado here and start posting from your heart. Stop trying to convince yourself that everything is now all better, when you do that you discount Rockets pain in a way. It's like you are saying. I know I did wrong but see now I am better so lets just move on. That is not how it works. It's also not clear that you have a true understanding yet of what you have taken away from him. He is in morning, he isn't in any position to just go back to the way it was. You are also not better yet, it's not possible, you don't even know what is broken yet. That takes time and hard work to figure out. 

Anyway none of this is to say that I don't think you are trying. I DO think you are trying.


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## Red Sonja

You would do well to consider @sokillme 's words because he is spot on. You are using spiritual awakening, god, religion … whatever you want to call it to mask your problems and avoid true change. God cannot fix your problems, you cannot “give it to god” and “miraculously” it all becomes solved. 

You, through your actions, have taken away the woman that Rocket loved … you have removed your mask and shown him your true self and he now realizes that what he loved is a lie, a falsehood. You say Rocket loves you but what he loves is the woman he thought you were.

If you can imagine what the above statement feels like if it were to happen to you, then you will begin to understand what Rocket is feeling and why he is mourning. He is mourning the woman he thought you were, the marriage he thought he had and now, he realizes that none of it was real.

When you find out that you have been living a lie, as Rocket has, it is a life-changing event. You start questioning everything; it’s not a fun state to be in.

That said, if you truly face yourself and what you have done and, make the effort to change the things about yourself that enabled you to betray your husband and children in such a horrible fashion. Then, you might become a person that Rocket could love and trust (given time), there are no guarantees of course and that is why you have to do it for yourself. God cannot do any of it for you.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Just because I am leaning on Jesus does not mean I am not doing any of the work myself. Do you not think everything is being addressed in IC? It ALL is. 

Issues are being actively dealt with. Like I said before, I don't share everything on here. I don't need to. Be assured that my IC is great and knows everything about me and we are weeding through all of it. 

Criticizing me for wanting to honor God with my life and for allowing Him to work in my life as well though is not helpful. You aren't helping when you do that. God is most definitely the One helping me to have the courage to walk this out. His perfect love is alleviating my fears. 

Honestly, my walk with the Lord is my walk. In the same way, is my relationship with my husband. Two very personal relationships. I'm not sure that TAM is a healthy place for recovery when getting well is even judged. That being said, I did ask for help and a few of you have and are helping me.


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## Rocket Skates76

Actually, more than a few, I would say actually most of the posters have tried to help. 

It's simply not 'packaged' the way you like, so different mindsets are rejected by you and labeled mean or jaded or secular etc. 

Rigidity of mind is blinding you. Good luck.


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## farsidejunky

I am harder on waywards than most here. 

That said, giving it to God is the beginning of the process. It is a necessary first step to admit that you can no longer carry the burden. 

Yes, there is much more work after that. But remembering to continue giving it to Him, as opposed to slowly taking it back from him, is very important to remember. For those who do not believe, it is hard to understand, and I believe much of the criticism is rooted in this alone.

Will Sofa truly heal and become better? Time will tell.


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## thefam

Deleted


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## Sofa Sleeper

TheFam, 
Thank you.


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## Rocket Skates76

Regardless of your particular free-will worldview, there is much truth to be gained from the thoughts of others regardless of theological slant, denomination, religion, socio-economics, and yes while all that does filter their communication, most have already been there and are speaking from the deep personal experience which is priceless. 
Sure, no two people are alike, but experiences such as infidelity and in the recovery thereof, there are definite patterns. 

Someone who closes their mind and closes a thread does so at their own risk.


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## thefam

Rocket Skates76 said:


> Regardless of your particular free-will worldview, there is much truth to be gained from the thoughts of others regardless of theological slant, denomination, religion, socio-economics, and yes while all that does filter their communication, most have already been there and are speaking from the deep personal experience which is priceless.
> Sure, no two people are alike, but experiences such as infidelity and in the recovery thereof, there are definite patterns.
> 
> Someone who closes their mind and closes a thread does so at their own risk.


Wow! Well you know what? You are the BS that she hopes to win back so I will withdraw my comment and just continue to pray the healing for both of you and your family.


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## Blondilocks

Sofa, your walk with God is your walk. Please be mindful that wearing the cloak of religion may hinder your ability to fully grasp and process the ramifications of your actions. The cloak didn't protect you from yourself which got you into this mess.

As for the suggestion to leave TAM, well, you have to consider the source. There are all types of marriages and yours may not fit that person's mold.

Peace to you and Rocket.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. Whether or not he ever takes me back, I will be ok. I love him and want him home with me and our babies more than anything, but I know I will be okay if he doesn't choose that. He is free to find happiness with or without me.


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## Satya

@Sofa Sleeper, this is your journey and I'm not going to weigh in any longer (once a post goes religious-y, that's kind of my cue to bow out and leave it to the pros) but I will leave with this tidbit, if it has any meaning or worth to you...

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school for many years, and had a basic respect for all religion, not just my own. I am not Catholic any longer, but if one thing remains, it's my basic respect for others' beliefs, even if they don't match my own. My personal "religion" is called the Church of Not Being a ****. On a basic level, it preaches treating other with kindness and respect, acting right, and owning your mistakes and choices.

After my divorce, I knew for certain I couldn't call myself Catholic any longer and really couldn't muster support behind any western religion because it all seemed fake to me and like a bandaid to cover up for what many can't face on their own, without the support of God... Their flaws.

The most "Christian" people I have ever known on this planet do not quote the Bible. They do not speak about God this and Jesus that. They do not need to convince themselves or others that they are devout and doing God's will. They LIVE what they believe and that's it. No talk, no defending or convincing, just all action. Most of them don't even identify openly with any religion and yet, to me they epitomize the (seemingly lost/degraded) meaning of Christian in our times.

I know you're working hard to find your path, but are you able to go through a day, just doing what you know is right, acting right, telling no one, just going about your day to yourself, humbly, and leaving God or Jesus out of it for a full 24 hours?

Just think about it. All the best.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I appreciate all of your opinions and I know it takes a long time to type out your comments and you probably mean well...most of you. I am not going to argue any longer about beliefs or where my heart is with God. That's between me and Him. 

Aside from that, I am open to advice and opinions concerning recovery and becoming whole.


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## drifting on

Religion can be a very debated and emotional topic for many, as a Christian man I often do not get very involved with these debates. I have stated before that the beliefs of religion are a perception of who reads the bible. The example I gave in that thread was about tattoos. Tattoos are forbidden according to the bible. Yet if you read about tattoos in its entirety, tattoos are not forbidden, they just can't be for promoting pagan worship. Again, this is all about perception.

When infidelity struck my marriage, I lost God, I lost all faith and hope. It wasn't until I found God and faith did healing begin. I also had the help of two therapists, MC and IC, that were not found by simply opening a phone book or an Internet search. Some could say they were placed in my life for a reason (God), or that it was just dumb luck. I believe everything happens for a reason, therefore dumb luck is discounted.

I see a person trying to put their life back together (Sofa), and finding God just may be her first great step forward. In our talks through pm I can see change in her, she also has a long way to go. Sofa is trying, Sofa will make mistakes, but remember she is also human and trying to change her entire being. This doesn't happen in just a few months, it takes time, and she has her entire life to change. While making these changes she has the daily challenges of life and being a mom. She has a marriage that she destroyed, and a husband she has also destroyed. Sofa has a monumental battle ahead of her, and she has taken steps to improve herself, get herself healthy, and trying to become the best Sofa possible. 

I've seen several WS and BS run out of here. Sadly I have probably contributed to running people out. With Sofa and Rocket I am taking a different approach to just help with healing. Help the both of them be the best they can be. When they both become the best they can be in mind, body, and spirit, they will once again be healthy. There is no guarantee that they will be together or divorced, and truthfully, I just want to see each of them find peace and happiness. 

Sofa, I know many of these posts may seem and feel harsh. Read them carefully, then allow yourself to feel what they are saying. I know my PM's and posts are not easy to read, you have self reflected inward with honesty when I have posted. This is the way to true healing, and if God walks this path with you, then you are truly blessed. Keep moving forward, stay strong, and God bless.


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## farsidejunky

Satya said:


> @Sofa Sleeper, this is your journey and I'm not going to weigh in any longer (once a post goes religious-y, that's kind of my cue to bow out and leave it to the pros) but I will leave with this tidbit, if it has any meaning or worth to you...
> 
> I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school for many years, and had a basic respect for all religion, not just my own. I am not Catholic any longer, but if one thing remains, it's my basic respect for others' beliefs, even if they don't match my own. My personal "religion" is called the Church of Not Being a ****. On a basic level, it preaches treating other with kindness and respect, acting right, and owning your mistakes and choices.
> 
> After my divorce, I knew for certain I couldn't call myself Catholic any longer and really couldn't muster support behind any western religion because it all seemed fake to me and like a bandaid to cover up for what many can't face on their own, without the support of God... Their flaws.
> 
> The most "Christian" people I have ever known on this planet do not quote the Bible. They do not speak about God this and Jesus that. They do not need to convince themselves or others that they are devout and doing God's will. They LIVE what they believe and that's it. No talk, no defending or convincing, just all action. Most of them don't even identify openly with any religion and yet, to me they epitomize the (seemingly lost/degraded) meaning of Christian in our times.
> 
> I know you're working hard to find your path, but are you able to go through a day, just doing what you know is right, acting right, telling no one, just going about your day to yourself, humbly, and leaving God or Jesus out of it for a full 24 hours?
> 
> Just think about it. All the best.


 @Satya:

This is an illustration of cultural differences. I would wager you have not lived in the south. 

Thanks to twenty years in the military, I had the opportunity to live in eight different states, to include the Northwest, the Northeast, mid Atlantic, deep south, and the mid south. In the South, people's beliefs are more at the forefront of day-to-day dialogue. 

Being originally from California, it really threw me for a loop when I first moved to the deep South, and again to the mid South fifteen years later.

Given Sofa's location in the South, I see it as perfectly normal in a general sort of way. It is something that I personally could never understand had I not lived (or currently reside) in the South.


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## oneMOreguy

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I appreciate all of your opinions and I know it takes a long time to type out your comments and you probably mean well...most of you. I am not going to argue any longer about beliefs or where my heart is with God. That's between me and Him.
> 
> Aside from that, I am open to advice and opinions concerning recovery and becoming whole.


Hey.......you are receiving a lot of feedback, some of which you view as unfair criticism. The thing about criticism, is that it always contains some diamonds that could be useful and valuable to you. Always look for the truth in criticism, even if you find it unpleasant. Sokillme has truly put a lot of effort into exoressing his thoughts, which to me may make you uncomfortable because they are delving into areas you will fight to keep to yourself. Among others, I have always been imoressed with how genuine DriftingOn is in posts. Value these folks since they care. FWIW, I am a WS, with a very inappropriate young lady friend. So I am not preaching from high on my mountain. Best wishes.....my advice, more actions and less talking about your better relationship with God. Let his presence shine through your good works.

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk


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## Sofa Sleeper

Onemoreguy,
I appreciate your comment. I have taken many diamonds away from here already. Drifting On has been my lifeline for a month now...even behind the scenes. He has forced me to reflect inwardly and I have been painfully honest with myself, with him and he with me. Much of my growth is owed to him. Farside has been another that has come along and even though he's not a fan of waywards, he is choosing to help me and I appreciate that. Some of the others have been truthful and helpful as well. Many posters don't know that I am already addressing my issues in therapy. I have a list of things we are tackling. 
1. Selfishness
2. Insecurity
3. Self Pity
4. Immaturity 
5. Sexually acting out 
6. Coping mechanisms
7. Self love
8. Self respect 
9. History of abuse (family or origin)
10. Sexual abuse (rape)
11. Stress and inward pain
12. Resentment issues
13. People pleasing
14. Co-dependency
15. Boundaries

I am a work in progress, but I am making progress. I'm not afraid of the hard work. I accept I need it and I welcome it. 

I know actions cannot be shown on a board, but my actions are backing up my words







My weakness is Rocket though. Blah.


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## Adelais

Sofa Sleeper said:


> Onemoreguy,
> 
> 1. Selfishness
> 2. Insecurity
> 3. Self Pity
> 4. Immaturity
> 5. Sexually acting out
> 6. Coping mechanisms
> 7. Self love
> 8. Self respect
> 9. History of abuse (family or origin)
> 10. Sexual abuse (rape)
> 11. Stress and inward pain
> 12. Resentment issues
> 13. People pleasing
> 14. Co-dependency
> 15. Boundaries


That's quite a list. You will become a better person working on becoming healthy in all those areas. What is exciting (in my opinion) is that is *your* personal list...your ticket to a fulfilling, transparent and authentic life.

It sounds like you have a very good therapist/counselor, to be able to help you pinpoint your broken/hurting/undeveloped/overdeveloped/unhealthy areas in just a couple of weeks.


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## Sofa Sleeper

Thank you. It IS exciting, I agree. It is exciting looking forward to my future as a whole person. I'm already feeling like a different person a little more everyday and I like it!! 

The crazy thing about my list is all of those things we pinpointed are connected. It's a web of pain and issues that has entrapped me. We are knocking that sucker down though. I took some advice from one of the posters this week and did something HARD for me to do. Once I did it, I texted my therapist to tell him. He replied, "That is GREAT, I am so proud of you". I feel like I have a great support system behind me now. I've weeded out friends and acquaintances that have not supported my journey, have spoken poorly of my husband, have tried to hook me up with someone ALREADY or have been a bad influence on me. I've been picky with my support team. I don't want to fail and I need good influences and tough love.


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## Affaircare

I'm surprised no one has said it out loud, so I will. @drifting on may absolutely, positively mean well, but he is a married, male human being. You are a married, female human being. You have both said how much you've written privately, and how he has been a lifeline for @Sofa Sleeper, etc. Your words, not mine. I don't and can't see your private messages. 

But how much have you changed exactly? Your past method of coping was to turn to other men, outside your marriage partner, for validation, for understanding, for emotional connection. Why not turn to a SINGLE mentor? Why not turn to a FEMALE mentor? My point here is not nearly as judgmental as I'm sure you're going to take it, but there is something disingenuine in saying "Oh I am completely different" while you turn to yet another male human being other than your husband for your support, comfort, and understanding. One of the VERY FIRST steps of true recovery is to recognize "this is the pattern I used to take" and "this seems to be my weakness" ... and then to set boundaries in place to protect yourself and your marriage (and your spouse) FROM yourself! My personal example is that I do not converse with any male human in private message--if I can't say it out loud in public, I should either be sharing it only with my husband OR I shouldn't be saying it. I know I'm weak to admiration and words, so I put huge protections in place so that even if I'm tempted, I can catch myself and say no before it even happens. 

Sadly what I hear now is 'I've changed! I've changed!" and yet your actions are exactly the same: when things are hard, scary or hurtful, turn to another man for validation. My definition of faithfulness is giving 100% of your affection, loyalty and companionship to your spouse. That leaves no percentage of your affection for any other male human being. That means not even 1% of your loyalty is to someone else...or to keeping that "friendship" that's hurting your marriage! That means that your recreation and joy and fellowship and closeness and yes even friendship are with your spouse and no one else. Get what you need only from your spouse. 

I'm just saying @Sofa Sleeper, that you are setting yourself up for trouble ahead. I get it--you truly believe that you are getting help, and maybe you honestly are. And then you start to share your heart with someone other than your husband. And then you start to look forward to sharing with someone other than your husband. Pretty soon you two are supporting each other rather than keeping for your husband what is his due. The ice you are treading is laser thin AND you've already tread on this ice before. 

I beg you to stop and think clearly about what you're doing. 

By the way I know I said I'd better stop, but I was discouraged and didn't think you were even willing to consider what I was saying. I doubt very much you'll consider what I'm saying now. But I just as firmly believe it had to be said. @drifting on, if you TRULY value Sofa and want to help her, great! Help her connect with FEMALE mentors at her church, in real life, or here on TAM if she'll listen to anyone. Demonstrate your true care for a fellow-struggler by not putting her in a position we all can see is her weakness.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

I was wondering how long it would be before someone said that, actually. Absolutely nothing inappropriate is being discussed whatsoever. It is NOT like that. I don't give a rip that he's a man even. And if my husband would like to see those messages, he is more than welcome to. They are saved. Driftingon is helping me and has expressed a desire to help Rocket too and he is authentic. And it's my understanding that Rocket does not have a problem with him helping me. If he did, I'd shut it down IMMEDIATELY. 

Female mentors are totally cool with me and much welcomed too. It was brought to my attention today that women on here have seemed to drop and I'm not sure why. Women who have been cheated on view a wayward woman as a threat or a trigger maybe? Women don't like other women? I really don't know. Honestly I don't even know who is male or female around here, nor do I care. It's hard to tell based upon screen names and even posts. I'm not trying to make friends here anyway so I'm not researching anyone to figure out who you all are. I don't have time for that with the 19 kids we have anyway. 

I do see your point though, AffairCare, and it is a valid one. Just to be totally clear and transparent here though, I didn't go seeking out help from a man. I also didn't even know he WAS a man in the beginning. Had he been a woman with the same advice and TRUE desire to help me personally to recover and not bash or tear down and offer real help with what reconciliation looks like and can be, I'd be communicating with her too. My IC is a male and I share things with him, but we certainly don't have the hots for each other and I don't find comfort in the fact that he is a man. And I chose him because he was covered by our insurance, he is a spirit filled Christian and he was the only one to call me back after I called 3 other IC's. Rocket's IC is a female. It just turned out that way. 

My best friend has just gone through infidelity with her husband. She is a wealth of information, experience and truth as well. They reconciled after being separated for 6 months. No kids. She has also BEEN a wayward before and so knows BOTH sides of this. She is authentic and honest and tells me what I don't want to hear, but totally believes that all people are capable of change and also believes in reconciliation because she is living in a healed marriage and they ARE happy and he HAS made changes...and I don't even like the guy so for me to say that is huge. He entered IC and they went to MC as well and they gave their hearts to Jesus. She is so thankful she chose to forgive and to save the marriage. 

Anyway...I'm rambling again...


I'm hearing ya though, Cindy. I am!


----------



## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I was wondering how long it would be before someone said that, actually. Absolutely nothing inappropriate is being discussed whatsoever. It is NOT like that. I don't give a rip that he's a man even. And if my husband would like to see those messages, he is more than welcome to. They are saved. Driftingon is helping me and has expressed a desire to help Rocket too and he is authentic. And it's my understanding that Rocket does not have a problem with him helping me. If he did, I'd shut it down IMMEDIATELY.
> 
> Female mentors are totally cool with me and much welcomed too. It was brought to my attention today that women on here have seemed to drop and I'm not sure why. Women who have been cheated on view a wayward woman as a threat or a trigger maybe? Women don't like other women? I really don't know. Honestly I don't even know who is male or female around here, nor do I care. It's hard to tell based upon screen names and even posts. I'm not trying to make friends here anyway so I'm not researching anyone to figure out who you all are. I don't have time for that with the 19 kids we have anyway.
> 
> I do see your point though, AffairCare, and it is a valid one. Just to be totally clear and transparent here though, I didn't go seeking out help from a man. I also didn't even know he WAS a man in the beginning. Had he been a woman with the same advice and TRUE desire to help me personally to recover and not bash or tear down and offer real help with what reconciliation looks like and can be, I'd be communicating with her too. My IC is a male and I share things with him, but we certainly don't have the hots for each other and I don't find comfort in the fact that he is a man. And I chose him because he was covered by our insurance, he is a spirit filled Christian and he was the only one to call me back after I called 3 other IC's. Rocket's IC is a female. It just turned out that way.
> 
> My best friend has just gone through infidelity with her husband. She is a wealth of information, experience and truth as well. They reconciled after being separated for 6 months. No kids. She has also BEEN a wayward before and so knows BOTH sides of this. She is authentic and honest and tells me what I don't want to hear, but totally believes that all people are capable of change and also believes in reconciliation because she is living in a healed marriage and they ARE happy and he HAS made changes...and I don't even like the guy so for me to say that is huge. He entered IC and they went to MC as well and they gave their hearts to Jesus. She is so thankful she chose to forgive and to save the marriage.
> 
> Anyway...I'm rambling again...
> 
> 
> I'm hearing ya though, Cindy. I am!


It's amazing to me how many "Christian" women are cheaters.

I suspect your answers to this situation would be pretty much the same when you were meeting with you group with the young guy you had sex with. I trust Driftingon but you have not shown yourself to have good boundaries. Just the very fact of how it looks should really be enough. I told you when you sent me the private message that you tendency to hide this stuff fits your pattern and you should do this all in the open. I say it again now. 

You should be working on being authentic and completely candid. You should be working on being more strict with yourself with men as you have shown you can get into situations that cause you to do wrong. Again you need to be thinking of yourself as an alcoholic. An alcoholic doesn't go into bars, they avoid situations that could start to cause temptation in the future. Now I seriously doubt that driftingon would be a problem, but it's about establishing rules that make you safe. Besides that it shows your husband that you are doing just that and that will make you a safe choice. The more open you are the less he has to worry what is really going on. 

No one is saying you can't talk about this stuff with Driftingon he is a wise poster on this board, just that you should do it in the open.


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

You make a valid point. I cannot disagree with you.

I will say though that everything I have to say or feel or believe or am working through is not public knowledge and doesn't need to be. Nobody thinks I need to lay out every detail of my life publicly...on a forum. My husband is free to ask for ANY information from me regarding anything. He doesn't communicate with me though in actual conversation. Only text and only in hugs and kisses. No words. Trust me, I would love to actually talk to him....in person...face to face, heart to heart. When we are together, we talk, but I know to "keep everything light". 

Now in person and in real life with my family and friends and with my IC, I hold nothing back. Open book. I'm not comfortable sharing private things about my recovery publicly though. Surely, that can be expected and respected as well.

And ps...I was not having sex with anyone. I have not had sex with anyone other than my husband the entire 10 year marriage. My only two physical screw ups happened nearly one year ago and although it WAS a sexual act, we did NOT have intercourse or come anywhere near that. I will never admit to something that absolutely did not ever happen. I have read the replies on my husband's thread how it doesn't make sense that we didn't, but guess what? We didn't. I'm sorry it doesn't fit the script you all think of as the holy grail, but it's the 100% truth. I WANT to be polygraphed to PROVE THAT TOO. What I DID do was WRONG, but I didn't do what is assumed. Ever.


----------



## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> You make a valid point. I cannot disagree with you.
> 
> I will say though that everything I have to say or feel or believe or am working through is not public knowledge and doesn't need to be. Nobody thinks I need to lay out every detail of my life publicly...on a forum. My husband is free to ask for ANY information from me regarding anything. He doesn't communicate with me though in actual conversation. Only text and only in hugs and kisses. No words. Trust me, I would love to actually talk to him....in person...face to face, heart to heart. When we are together, we talk, but I know to "keep everything light".
> 
> Now in person and in real life with my family and friends and with my IC, I hold nothing back. Open book. I'm not comfortable sharing private things about my recovery publicly though. Surely, that can be expected and respected as well.
> 
> And ps...I was not having sex with anyone. I have not had sex with anyone other than my husband the entire 10 year marriage. My only two physical screw ups happened nearly one year ago and although it WAS a sexual act, we did NOT have intercourse or come anywhere near that. I will never admit to something that absolutely did not ever happen. I have read the replies on my husband's thread how it doesn't make sense that we didn't, but guess what? We didn't. I'm sorry it doesn't fit the script you all think of as the holy grail, but it's the 100% truth. I WANT to be polygraphed to PROVE THAT TOO. What I DID do was WRONG, but I didn't do what is assumed. Ever.


Oral sex is sex and you did it not once but twice, it's called oral *sex*. If you were my wife I really won't see any difference. Own up to what you did! Besides all that you allowed this young man to be much more familiar with you that any wife should, in the process emboldening him. The fact that this was an act you did for a man who wasn't your husband makes it worse of a betrayal, meaning it wasn't about your pleasure it was all about this guys pleasure. You wanted to make this man feel good, a man who wasn't your husband. Minimizing this stuff is not going to help you. The more you minimize this the less likely you will be able to understand your husbands pain. You are not getting it here and it's obvious, and probably painfully obvious to your husband. Why should he want to take you back when you are doing your best to minimize what you did. Sorry but you are really not a good candidate as you can't even admit you had sex even it it was just 2 blowjobs.

Your husband the man you supposedly love has a wife who gave two blowjobs to another man it seem substantially younger then him in some parked car somewhere. Who spent months flirting and carrying on with him, and who even now when she claims how sorry she was still will argue with anyone who says she had sex. When it comes to the problems she is quick to take that private, but when it comes to admitting she had sex she yells "it's not sex" for all to hear. 

Just stop.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I have a valid question. Why is everyone so concerned with the fact that he was a younger guy? I've seen that mentioned several times now. Would it have made a difference if it was a 60 year old man? A man in his 40's? The fact that he was in his mid 20's is worse or what? Honest question. Sorry. And if you're all super curious, my HUSBAND is 500 times hotter in every way than the "younger guy" was. Yep, good ol' Rocket is GQ hot. Singles of TAM would salivate. Lol


----------



## Sofa Sleeper

Ok hold up....I am not minimizing it AT ALL. I understand what you're saying, but what I am saying is there are people on here that are convinced MORE happened than what did. What I did was bad enough. 

I am in no way minimizing what I DID do though. You think I'm proud of that? I hate that I did that. No need to keep reminding me of what I did. I was there. I know what I did. I live with it everyday now. No reminder needed. 

Yes, oral sex is called sex for a reason but when people generally talk about sex, they mean intercourse. You said "having sex" in your post. I assumed you meant intercourse. Most would. My bad.


----------



## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I have a valid question. Why is everyone so concerned with the fact that he was a younger guy? I've seen that mentioned several times now. Would it have made a difference if it was a 60 year old man? A man in his 40's? The fact that he was in his mid 20's is worse or what? Honest question. Sorry. And if you're all super curious, my HUSBAND is 500 times hotter in every way than the "younger guy" was. Yep, good ol' Rocket is GQ hot. Singles of TAM would salivate. Lol


You really have a problem with empathy. Let me ask you how would you feel if you husband was getting blowjobs from a women young enough to be his daughter. You husband is right at the age where age starts to become something you have to deal with (am I losing my mojo), and now here you are his wife sending naked pictures and giving your body to a younger man, a guy who you were working with closely making music and pursuing your dreams with. I'm sure it was hard enough to watch you do this thing without him but he let you because he trusted you, and you basically probably made all his worse fears come true. I have to be honest, if you are this obtuse I don't know how you are going to get to a point where you can be a safe choice for your husband. It's amazing you can't see this, try taking your eyes off yourself for a moment. 

Here is what you did just the cold hard facts (it wasn't just a sex act), you sent dirty pictures and had a romantic relationship with a guy almost young enough to be your kid. A guy you were presumably working closely with almost everyday pursuing what has probably been a big dream of yours, one your husband has no chance to be a part of or help you achieve. Though most husbands if they love their wives want to be the one who helps them get their dreams, so that was probably a hard thing to start with. (Frankly not a lot of husbands would have been cool with you doing this in the first place, with your 4 or 19 kids, and yet here you are telling everyone that he hated you. He put a lot of trust in you and you basically give him exactly the nightmare that every man would have about this.) All of this culminated in you having sex with him twice, because as you say he wanted you to. 

A man who wasn't your husband, didn't support you or your kids for 20 year, all he did was tell you how hot you were. Like all guys don't tell girls they want to **** how hot they are. Then you lied to your husband for a long time about it, not to mention all the lying you did while you were doing it. When you got exposed you lied to everyone about how this was all your husband's fault. You first post on here is about how crappy he was and that is why you did it. So far all I can see that explains what crap he was is that he didn't tell you how hot you were like this child player you hooked up with. I mean even at 24 he knew enough to know that damaged women are easily bedded if you tell them they are hot over and over. Nope you husband just dedicated his life to you, the product of his work to support you and your kids. If only he told you you were hot more. That is about as ****ty as it gets. Yes you didn't have intercourse, so what, this story is as bad as any I have read. Here is a man with a wife who is running around paying girlfriend and boyfriend with her young band mate.

Oh and you conveniently leave out the at least emotional affair you had with your ex-boyfriend a year before this. Or the fact that your whole relationship was started as an affair, but that doesn't count because the first husband was a jerk right? What about your husbands first wife do you owe her an apology?

Until you see what you did what you really did you won't change. How can you have true empathy for your husband when you don't even acknowledge what you did. How can you fix yourself when you did this really awful thing but you continue to minimize it as a sex act. You didn't bump into the guy and perform a sex act. You became this young guys milf girlfriend who had sex with him after having an emotional affair with someone else a year before. Yes that is you.


----------



## drifting on

Affaircare said:


> I'm surprised no one has said it out loud, so I will. @drifting on may absolutely, positively mean well, but he is a married, male human being. You are a married, female human being. You have both said how much you've written privately, and how he has been a lifeline for @Sofa Sleeper, etc. Your words, not mine. I don't and can't see your private messages.
> 
> But how much have you changed exactly? Your past method of coping was to turn to other men, outside your marriage partner, for validation, for understanding, for emotional connection. Why not turn to a SINGLE mentor? Why not turn to a FEMALE mentor? My point here is not nearly as judgmental as I'm sure you're going to take it, but there is something disingenuine in saying "Oh I am completely different" while you turn to yet another male human being other than your husband for your support, comfort, and understanding. One of the VERY FIRST steps of true recovery is to recognize "this is the pattern I used to take" and "this seems to be my weakness" ... and then to set boundaries in place to protect yourself and your marriage (and your spouse) FROM yourself! My personal example is that I do not converse with any male human in private message--if I can't say it out loud in public, I should either be sharing it only with my husband OR I shouldn't be saying it. I know I'm weak to admiration and words, so I put huge protections in place so that even if I'm tempted, I can catch myself and say no before it even happens.
> 
> Sadly what I hear now is 'I've changed! I've changed!" and yet your actions are exactly the same: when things are hard, scary or hurtful, turn to another man for validation. My definition of faithfulness is giving 100% of your affection, loyalty and companionship to your spouse. That leaves no percentage of your affection for any other male human being. That means not even 1% of your loyalty is to someone else...or to keeping that "friendship" that's hurting your marriage! That means that your recreation and joy and fellowship and closeness and yes even friendship are with your spouse and no one else. Get what you need only from your spouse.
> 
> I'm just saying @Sofa Sleeper, that you are setting yourself up for trouble ahead. I get it--you truly believe that you are getting help, and maybe you honestly are. And then you start to share your heart with someone other than your husband. And then you start to look forward to sharing with someone other than your husband. Pretty soon you two are supporting each other rather than keeping for your husband what is his due. The ice you are treading is laser thin AND you've already tread on this ice before.
> 
> I beg you to stop and think clearly about what you're doing.
> 
> By the way I know I said I'd better stop, but I was discouraged and didn't think you were even willing to consider what I was saying. I doubt very much you'll consider what I'm saying now. But I just as firmly believe it had to be said. @drifting on, if you TRULY value Sofa and want to help her, great! Help her connect with FEMALE mentors at her church, in real life, or here on TAM if she'll listen to anyone. Demonstrate your true care for a fellow-struggler by not putting her in a position we all can see is her weakness.




Hmmm. I will admit when I first read this I was angry, mostly because it could be believed that I would have an inappropriate relationship here at TAM. Or that I have been an accomplice, an enabler to a WS's ways that they used to cope when facing adversity. Or that I possibly believe this is match dot com and if I gain Sofa Sleepers confidence I can date her in the future. I guess the truth about what I've written above is that I am angry, angry with what is being posted, as well as angry that I could be considered in this way.

My coming here was cathartic to write about infidelity, it helped me cope as well getting some excellent advice I couldn't get from a therapist. I believe true life expierience to be far better then what you could read in any textbook. Being with people who walked in my shoes was comforting, even some harsh posters helped very much, and posters who posted on threads that I had read helped. With this said I can't help but say this is no longer cathartic, and the least bit helpful.

I have posted from my heart, I have posted some very raw feelings, I have posted from a place of being vulnerable. This all helped for me to heal, and hopefully for others to heal. What I discussed in pm with many members was exactly that, a private message. Some have even posted on a thread what I wrote in pm, but that shows to the character of who posted such a pm. I have willingly attempted to truly help others, and perhaps it's time for this to end. Rocket has said I may be good for Sofa to talk to, others probably don't see it that way. 

My intentions with Sofa Sleeper were truly to help, yet it is clear I didn't. No, instead I became an accomplice to cheating, even though I told rocket I had every pm saved. What I have shared in pm with Sofa Sleeper was very personal information related to our reconciliation and clearing of the destruction of infidelity. I decide, not any of you, what I will share in public or private. That is up to me and me only, not one of you has any kind of a say in what I post. It is for this reason I will take a break from TAM, during this time I will consider if it is healthy for me to return. @Sofa Sleeper and @Rocket Skates76, God bless you both, I sincerely hope you both find peace and happiness in the very near future.


----------



## sokillme

Sofa Sleeper said:


> I am in no way minimizing what I DID do though. You think I'm proud of that? I hate that I did that. No need to keep reminding me of what I did. I was there. I know what I did. I live with it everyday now. No reminder needed.


NONE OF THIS IS ABOUT YOU! It's about what you did to your HUSBAND! All this is about how you feel. You deserve to feel that way. What about what your husband feels. You first thought at this point should be, what did I really do to my husband. Are you worthy of a second chance? If your first thought is how do I live with it and not how does my HUSBAND live with it, you are not worthy. 


I will now as a question to anyone who is married on here. If your spouse came home and told you they had oral sex with someone would you consider that having sex? If it's no please reply. 

Quit the semantics you had sex with your young boyfriend, full stop.


----------



## sokillme

drifting on said:


> Hmmm. I will admit when I first read this I was angry, mostly because it could be believed that I would have an inappropriate relationship here at TAM. Or that I have been an accomplice, an enabler to a WS's ways that they used to cope when facing adversity. Or that I possibly believe this is match dot com and if I gain Sofa Sleepers confidence I can date her in the future. I guess the truth about what I've written above is that I am angry, angry with what is being posted, as well as angry that I could be considered in this way.
> 
> My coming here was cathartic to write about infidelity, it helped me cope as well getting some excellent advice I couldn't get from a therapist. I believe true life expierience to be far better then what you could read in any textbook. Being with people who walked in my shoes was comforting, even some harsh posters helped very much, and posters who posted on threads that I had read helped. With this said I can't help but say this is no longer cathartic, and the least bit helpful.
> 
> I have posted from my heart, I have posted some very raw feelings, I have posted from a place of being vulnerable. This all helped for me to heal, and hopefully for others to heal. What I discussed in pm with many members was exactly that, a private message. Some have even posted on a thread what I wrote in pm, but that shows to the character of who posted such a pm. I have willingly attempted to truly help others, and perhaps it's time for this to end. Rocket has said I may be good for Sofa to talk to, others probably don't see it that way.
> 
> My intentions with Sofa Sleeper were truly to help, yet it is clear I didn't. No, instead I became an accomplice to cheating, even though I told rocket I had every pm saved. What I have shared in pm with Sofa Sleeper was very personal information related to our reconciliation and clearing of the destruction of infidelity. I decide, not any of you, what I will share in public or private. That is up to me and me only, not one of you has any kind of a say in what I post. It is for this reason I will take a break from TAM, during this time I will consider if it is healthy for me to return. @Sofa Sleeper and @Rocket Skates76, God bless you both, I sincerely hope you both find peace and happiness in the very near future.


I don't think that post was directed at you at all. I get why you feel the way you do, but I think this is all about her and her boundaries. I don't think any of us are questioning your integrity DO.


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## Sofa Sleeper

I am also walking away and not because DriftingOn is, but because my therapist has now been on TAM, read through the forums and both of our threads in their entirety and says it is a hostile environment and not a heathy place to be for anyone and advised me to get off. His professional opinion is important to me and he knows exactly where I am in recovery and monitors me closely. My best friend who also knows me better than anyone has also been following the thread and is angry right now because she KNOWS the changes I am making, knows my heart, and knows ME....the real live me...., knows my true love for my husband, knows how deeply I am affected by MY HUSBAND'S PAIN, knows and has experienced in person how remorseful I am, and knows how we are all suffering and just told me to get off of here because it is juvenile and is SLOWING my recovery, not aiding in it. Frankly, she is very worried about Rocket being on here too. Other posters have even said the same. She says Rocket and I should stop talking to others and talk to God and each other. She is a wise woman and thinks there is and has been a huge lack of real communication in our marriage. 

Yes, TAM can be helpful, but it can also be just as harmful. There are hurting people that are really trying and all you want to do is keep them pinned to the ground. I don't know how that contributes to healing. Negativity breeds negativity. Self loathing is what led me to make mistakes to begin with. Keeping me chained to my failures accomplishes nothing. It punishes me. I kinda think that's what you all want...to see me punished. I am not my failures though. I refuse to be a failure. 

I've come so far already in just 10 weeks and I will keep going. I know the woman I want to be. I know the wife I want to be. I know who God has called me to be. 

Thank you to all of you who have opened my eyes to things and who have helped me become a little stronger. I appreciate it. I came here originally out of hurt, anger, and resentment and wanted to tell my side of the story. Then I came back and humbled myself looking for REAL help. I've received that. Thank you. DriftingOn has seen me vulnerable and real and has told me my truthfulness is actually rare. That is why he chose to help me. He has helped me a LOT. Do not question his motives, please. Farside also has given me great nuggets of wisdom and I appreciate that so much. Thank you. I have received many PM's from posters that are encouraging me, one even thanking me for helping her to see the pain and remorse of an unfaithful that made her go home and love her wayward husband and make things right with him. Some PM's have been hateful too. You can't please everyone. Sometimes it's just a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. TAM has served its purpose for me. Now I will continue on in my journey. 

I have a wonderful support team in real life that doesn't just care about me, but genuinely cares about my husband and our babies as well and our long term future as a family. I will be just fine. I still hang on to hope that my marriage will be healed. There's nothing wrong with that. I will be ok though either way. I know my worth. I know I am not just damaged goods. I know I am worthy of love and worth fighting for. That in itself it huge growth for me. 

Love covers a multitude of sins and it's kindness that brings men to repentance. Change is possible and I will be living proof of that change. I don't need a forum to monitor my progress. My husband will see it.

I love you, Rocket. I know you needed a hug Friday and now I sure could use one tonight. Whew.


----------



## sokillme

I will leave so you can stay. I said what needed to be said anyway. Maybe I was too harsh, but if your 10 weeks out and talking like you are well on your way but still hedging on whether you had sex with this man or not it's not a good sign. I don't care what your counselor says.

That is the last thing I will write on this post. I hope you are right. I really do for Rocket's sake.


----------



## EleGirl

I just caught up on some of this thread. It's under moderator review now. Not pleased with what I'm seeing.


----------



## EllaSuaveterre

EleGirl said:


> I just caught up on some of this thread. It's under moderator review now. Not pleased with what I'm seeing.


Hm? Can someone catch me up? I may have skipped a few pages.


----------



## MattMatt

Affaircare said:


> I'm surprised no one has said it out loud, so I will. @drifting on may absolutely, positively mean well, but he is a married, male human being. You are a married, female human being. You have both said how much you've written privately, and how he has been a lifeline for @Sofa Sleeper, etc. Your words, not mine. I don't and can't see your private messages.
> 
> But how much have you changed exactly? Your past method of coping was to turn to other men, outside your marriage partner, for validation, for understanding, for emotional connection. Why not turn to a SINGLE mentor? Why not turn to a FEMALE mentor? My point here is not nearly as judgmental as I'm sure you're going to take it, but there is something disingenuine in saying "Oh I am completely different" while you turn to yet another male human being other than your husband for your support, comfort, and understanding. One of the VERY FIRST steps of true recovery is to recognize "this is the pattern I used to take" and "this seems to be my weakness" ... and then to set boundaries in place to protect yourself and your marriage (and your spouse) FROM yourself! My personal example is that I do not converse with any male human in private message--if I can't say it out loud in public, I should either be sharing it only with my husband OR I shouldn't be saying it. I know I'm weak to admiration and words, so I put huge protections in place so that even if I'm tempted, I can catch myself and say no before it even happens.
> 
> Sadly what I hear now is 'I've changed! I've changed!" and yet your actions are exactly the same: when things are hard, scary or hurtful, turn to another man for validation. My definition of faithfulness is giving 100% of your affection, loyalty and companionship to your spouse. That leaves no percentage of your affection for any other male human being. That means not even 1% of your loyalty is to someone else...or to keeping that "friendship" that's hurting your marriage! That means that your recreation and joy and fellowship and closeness and yes even friendship are with your spouse and no one else. Get what you need only from your spouse.
> 
> I'm just saying @Sofa Sleeper, that you are setting yourself up for trouble ahead. I get it--you truly believe that you are getting help, and maybe you honestly are. And then you start to share your heart with someone other than your husband. And then you start to look forward to sharing with someone other than your husband. Pretty soon you two are supporting each other rather than keeping for your husband what is his due. The ice you are treading is laser thin AND you've already tread on this ice before.
> 
> I beg you to stop and think clearly about what you're doing.
> 
> By the way I know I said I'd better stop, but I was discouraged and didn't think you were even willing to consider what I was saying. I doubt very much you'll consider what I'm saying now. But I just as firmly believe it had to be said. @drifting on, if you TRULY value Sofa and want to help her, great! Help her connect with FEMALE mentors at her church, in real life, or here on TAM if she'll listen to anyone. Demonstrate your true care for a fellow-struggler by not putting her in a position we all can see is her weakness.


You make a good point. 

However! Sofa Sleeper has revealed that she had had to rid her life of toxic friends who were speaking ill of Rocket or were trying to set her up with other men.

And how many of those toxic friends were women, do you suppose?

So the idea that women friends are safe is not always true.


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## MattMatt

sokillme said:


> It's amazing to me how many "Christian" women are cheaters.
> 
> I suspect your answers to this situation would be pretty much the same when you were meeting with you group with the young guy you had sex with. I trust Driftingon but you have not shown yourself to have good boundaries. Just the very fact of how it looks should really be enough. I told you when you sent me the private message that you tendency to hide this stuff fits your pattern and you should do this all in the open. I say it again now.
> 
> You should be working on being authentic and completely candid. You should be working on being more strict with yourself with men as you have shown you can get into situations that cause you to do wrong. Again you need to be thinking of yourself as an alcoholic. An alcoholic doesn't go into bars, they avoid situations that could start to cause temptation in the future. Now I seriously doubt that driftingon would be a problem, but it's about establishing rules that make you safe. Besides that it shows your husband that you are doing just that and that will make you a safe choice. The more open you are the less he has to worry what is really going on.
> 
> No one is saying you can't talk about this stuff with Driftingon he is a wise poster on this board, just that you should do it in the open.


And the Christian women cheat with Christian men. Which proves that we are all humans and lible to fall.


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## Affaircare

sokillme said:


> I don't think that post was directed at you at all. I get why you feel the way you do, but I think this is all about her and her boundaries. I don't think any of us are questioning your integrity DO.


:iagree: I certainly did not write what I wrote because I think @drifting on and @Sofa Sleeper are having an affair in PM. So let's get that out of the way. What I AM suggesting as a possibility, though, is that for someone whose lifelong pattern has been to turn to other men whenever things are painful and difficult--running to a male human being in private may not be very safe. To use an illustration, it would be similar to an alcoholic saying they have changed, then going to the bar, ordering a beer, sitting it in front of them...but then sayig they are not going to drink it.

It is much, MUCH safer to recognize that there is a weakness for male attention, and thus say "I need to shield myself and my marriage from my own weaknesses and therefore, I'm going to put these safeguards in place." 

From what I could observe, Drifting did come from a place of good intent and desire to help. However, Drifting, as a wise person, if a male fellow human being comes to me and asks for counsel, I totally DO want to help and hope for good things for that man, but I DON"T DO IT because of the safeguards I've put in place. I refer him to my husband for private counsel. If the male person wants to talk to me, it must be in public because otherwise it is much too slippery a slope to begin to enjoy each others' attention and begin to seek each other to meet emotional needs. 

As an example to you, did you notice that because I brought up the question both you and Sofa are "leaving now"? This sounds to me like your loyalties are to each other now rather than being to helping her learn to think in a faithful way...aimed toward her husband. Did you notice that you are defending each other? See... I could have just turned a blind eye and figured you two are adults blahblahblah but in real life I care about you two! Proverbs 27: 5-6 tells us: _"Better is open rebuke than love that is concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy."_ I get it. It hurts to hear that you may have been flirting with fire FOR HER. But a true friend will tell you the hurtful truth, and for Sofa, she needs very badly to learn to stop turning to men other than her husband for what she needs...including good counsel...and start turning to the Lord or her husband ONLY. 

Male therapist-->female counsellee... Female therapist-->male counsellee... there are literally laws and ethics violations of licensing entities to deter (can't prevent, but deter) inappropriate behavior, so that chances are diminished and temptations are blocked by counter-measures. But private messaging on a public forum has no such protection! 

So I do understand why you'd both be upset, and I do even understand why you might be angry and feel the need to defend yourself. I probably hurts to hear that what you meant as help may have been hurtful. What I'm asking is that after you let the initial wave of defence subside, that you remain a real and true friend to Sofa and Rocket, and help her to connect with godly, older women (I consider this to mean "more mature Christians) who can "_...urge her to love her husband, be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, and be kind..._" Titus 2: 4-5

And by the way, @MattMatt brings up an EXCELLENT point. I'm not saying that women "as a gender" are better than men at giving good counsel or anything. Shoot, many women whisper in your ear that it's okay to do whatever makes you happy or are not friends of the marriage! When I recommend ladies for @Sofa Sleeper, what I mean is that for someone who has sought male validation, it would be wise to seek out "Oh here's a godly female person I know who has a great marriage who seems to have some clue how to be good at this--I'm going to go alongside HER and see if she has some wisdom to share with me." Even a lady's bible study that is studying "having a great marriage" would be a wiser choice than going to another male human privately, because again the idea is not only to stop the sin of sexual adultery, but to also start thinking in a whole new FAITHFUL way...complete fidelity to one man forsaking all others. This might have to go on for a time for her to learn the new habits of faithful thinking and then it's within the realm of possibility she could speak to a male human without giving away what is her husband's alone...but it would take TIME and we just haven't had that kind of time right now.


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## MattMatt

A problem that I have noticed is that we have some members on TAM who know some stuff for sure. They are 100% certain of what they say.

"All women are either cheaters or potential cheaters, all men are pigs who will break your hearts, cheaters should be shown no quarter and should be thrown out of the family home and never, ever forgiven." And so on. And on. And on.

They are fanatics and they are less than helpful in my opinion as they chase people off, both wayward spouses and betrayed spouses, people who are hurting and who need help not harm.


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## Rocket Skates76

@affaircare was simply stating the obvious, actually almost an echo of a warning Farside posted early on. 

@drifting was in constant communication with myself throughout the process of the PMs with Sofa, and not that anyone doubts it, but his motives were entirely pure and he was coming from a good place. 

@sokillme and myself were in communication as well and he simply was maintaining overall objectivity with all current provided facts.


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