# How do you know it's over



## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

We've been married for almost 13 years. It hasn't been the easiest. The first 10 years, we lived and were closely involved with my parents and relatives. We're both the eldest of our own siblings, and so always felt a sense of responsibilities towards parents and elders. But parents aren't always perfect, and we've had our quarrels with them. The last 3-4 years we've been on our own with our daughter (8 yrs old), and now have a son (2 yrs). Even though we're in different cities (world's just not that big anymore), we still stayed in touch with them. But this past winter, on X-mas day, had a terrible fight with my folks, and haven't spoken to them since then. They want to work things out, but wife is still upset, but honestly for the wrong reasons. She keeps holding on to things from the past and won't let things go. This fight we had on X-mas, instead of arguing on what the argument was about, she started bringing up old things, and made things worse. And now, just looks for any excuse to push family away. Day after X-mas she talked to my brother and explained what went down with my parents, but now blames him for not doing anything about it. She expected him to patch things between us and my parents. But now since its been almost 9 months, and he's called, and is trying to do what he can, instead of seeing the positive, she's focused on why he didn't do it earlier. Just trying to look for the negative in every situation. 

So how is this impacting us. We're both from India, (I've been in the US my whole life - 38 yrs). She's been here for 12. Our marriage you can call it "arranged' in a way. Every time the topic of family comes up (mine or hers), she becomes unreasonable, and such an ugly person. We fight over paint colors, home decors, stupid ****, and it always become ugly. And she always refers the first 10 yrs together as the worst thing. How she resents it, possibly regrets it. I feel our marriage to her is more of an obligation than love. I feel she confuses the two. 

I'm just so tired of this crap, it's so repetitive and never ends. I feel she has some emotional scars as a kid (her grandparents raised her, while her parents got their life together, but they raised her younger sister/brother). I don't want to be the **** who leaves a wife like that (who may not know she's disturbed), and please don't confuse with a mental-psychotic person. She has issues with her mother that are probably not resolved. And that's probably why she can't control her emotions. 

But as for me, I'm not happy with how my life is going. Everyday for me is the same repetitive day. I get ready the same way, work, come home, kids, and rinse and repeat. First I've tried being the good son (no drinking, smoking/drugs,) didnt even have a girl friend before marriage. Then after marriage, tried to fit the husband image. Be perfect couple. And now I live and do for my kids, but I feel when all is said and done, and when the day comes I'm on my death bed, I'm gonna look back and realize I really never did anything that I wanted, that made me happy. 

My question to those who might have gone through something similar, how far did it go until you finally split up. Did things work out. Are you both happier after the split up?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

I think you should have a very open and honest (non threatening or blaming) discussion with your wife. YOu might find a MC useful and read the book His Needs/Her Needs.

My H and I found a course called the The marriage course, useful to open up the areas for discussion, it covers everything from inlaws to sex. My marriage is in a very strange place right now but I will say this course helped up to be more open with each other and bring things out into the open.
I am not sure if it is available in your area, it is also Christian centric (without the bible thumping) though open to all faiths. 
https://themarriagecourses.org/try/the-marriage-course/


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

I've counseled some Indian couples. The Indian mother-in-law is a legendary figure. 

You really raise three issues, as I see it:

 - how do I deal with wife versus family conflicts
 - how do I know if my wife really loves me, or just wants the convenience of marriage
 - "when the day comes I'm on my death bed, I'm gonna look back and realize I really never did anything that I wanted, that made me happy"

I would say tackle the third of these first. You need to get used to the idea that you have wants. Maybe that's something you've never really allowed yurself to feel. After that, the other two will be easier. I'd second the idea of marriage counseling if you can find a strong one. "How do I fix my wife" is NOT on your list of tasks.


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## zookeeper (Oct 2, 2012)

It's over when you decide it is. Or when your wife does.


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## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

@Laurentium Just curious what the religious background was for those Indian couples. We're Sikh, and there's probably similar issues shared with other Indian couples from different backgrounds. Probably culturally similarities, but some times religion plays a factor to. 

We both have issues with our MIL, but for different reasons. For me, even though she doesn't get along with her own mom, I still respect my MIL because in the end she's still my kids Grandma, but its just a respectful relationship. Her mother and I have never had an argument, just very formal. Could be a language thing, could be cultural. We just don't have anything in common. It's mostly small talk. I just find her boring and blah. My wife has her own problems with her mom growing up. When her parents took her back from her GPs she was already in high school, and didn't like the "control" her mom was trying to implement. Guess she had more freedom living with her Grandparents.

My wife and my mom: She thought she found the mother figure she was looking for, loving, supporting, buddies. But when they don't see eye to eye, or makes mountains outta mole hills, she feel "betrayed". And that we both don't have family that loves and supports us. Which isn't true, but that's her state of mind. 

Could you share some of the topics discussed with the different Indian couples you've treated.

To sit down and discuss this with my wife is not easy. It's not gonna go calmly unless we're probably in front of a third party (like counselor). I know its going to go ugly real fast, because she's not apologetic type. The word sorry is not in her vocab. If proven wrong or at fault, she'll say "so what, no big deal", but when I get called out, I get chewed out. 

I'm not saying I dont have my share of faults. I do, and I know/accept most of them.


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## austinguy31 (Oct 5, 2015)

Could you recommend someone from the Austin, TX area. And this could be a stretch but is familiar with Indian couples. I only ask this, because don't want to deal with someone who's just going to be a textbook counselor. But some one who's familiar with the culture, behaviors, etc.

Thanks


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

austinguy31 said:


> [MENTION=291721]
> 
> but that's her state of mind.


Reading your posts I don't believe you care for the state of mind of your W. In short, you are not supportive of your W in disagreements with your parents. You appear to back your and her parents. 

The Christmas argument, what was it about?


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## Laurentium (May 21, 2017)

austinguy31 said:


> Could you share some of the topics discussed with the different Indian couples you've treated.


Obviously I can't say anything very specific about clients. Typically we explore boundaries, and whether and how the two families have the same or different ideas about how things should be done, problems resolved, money handled, children raised, and so on. 

As I said, I think you should start by wondering about what makes you happy in life.


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## Uptown (Mar 27, 2010)

> *She can't control her emotions*.... and please don't confuse with a mental-psychotic person.


Austin, I agree that you're not describing crazy or psychotic behavior. You may be describing behavior, however, that is due to strong traits of a personality disorder. 

I mention this because the inability to control one's own emotions is the hallmark of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Indeed, this lack of emotional control is such a key feature of BPD that a large share of the psychiatric community has been lobbying for two decades to change its name to "Emotional Regulation Disorder."

Moreover, several other behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, temper tantrums, black-white thinking, inability to trust you, and her always being "The Victim" (blaming everything on you and your family) -- are classic warning signs for BPD.

Importantly,  I'm not suggesting your W has full-blown BPD. Only a professional can determine that. Instead, I'm suggesting she may be exhibiting moderate to strong BPD symptoms.

Of course, learning to spot BPD warning signs will not enable you to diagnose her issues. Although strong BPD symptoms are easy to spot, only a professional can determine whether they are so severe and persistent as to constitute a full-blown disorder.

Yet, like learning warning signs for a stroke or heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid a very painful situation -- e.g., by helping you decide whether to leave a toxic marriage and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. It also may help you decide whether the situation warrants your seeking a professional opinion about your W's state of mind. I therefore suggest you take a quick look at these BPD warning signs to see if most to sound very familiar.



Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor infraction;
Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"
Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members (apparently, this isolation has already started with her treatment of your mother);
A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude and a double standard;
Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells;
Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later;
Low self esteem;
Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums that typically last several hours;
Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;
Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;
Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);
Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming, during the first few months of your relationship, that you are the only one who has treated her well;
Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;"
Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months;
Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing;
Having no close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away) even though she may have many casual friends;
Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and
Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she often "rewrites history" because she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.
If most of those behaviors ring bells and raise questions, I would be glad to discuss them with you. And, in that event, I would recommend you see a psychologist (for a visit or two all by yourself) to obtain a candid professional opinion on what you and the children are dealing with.

I caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either _"has"_ or _"doesn't have."_ Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (usually at a low level if the person is healthy).

At issue, then, is not whether your W exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum).

Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list.


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