# How to explore fantasies and desires in marriage?



## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

This might seem straightforward but while in marriage one does not want to risk upsetting the spouse even though it's the truth is what is causing the upset. Out of love, affection, weakness and respect. 

That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.

Thoughts?


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

A frank discussion with your spouse or partner...I'm assuming that you want to explore some kink fantasy that you have ? Care to elaborate ?


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

I think it’s largely a matter of the fantasies/desires in question. Because there’s such a wide range, it really depends on what you’re talking about specifically.
A fantasy could be anything from I want to tie you up and spank you or I want my elbow tickled with a feather during sex - to I want to be pooped on or I want to bring 10 strangers into the room for an all out orgy.
It really does depend on the fantasy in question.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> A frank discussion with your spouse or partner...I'm assuming that you want to explore some kink fantasy that you have ? Care to elaborate ?


That's where I see this going too.

OP, what particular act do you want to broach with your spouse?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> I think it’s largely a matter of the fantasies/desires in question. Because there’s such a wide range, it really depends on what you’re talking about specifically.
> A fantasy could be anything from I want to tie you up and spank you or I want my elbow tickled with a feather during sex - to I want to be pooped on or I want to bring 10 strangers into the room for an all out orgy.
> It really does depend on the fantasy in question.


Had to include poop. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

CountryMike said:


> Had to include poop. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


Apparently it’s a thing…


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> That's where I see this going too.
> 
> OP, what particular act do you want to broach with your spouse?


That's exactly where it's going


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> That's exactly where it's going


And what act do you want to talk with her about?


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> A frank discussion with your spouse or partner...I'm assuming that you want to explore some kink fantasy that you have ? Care to elaborate ?


Frank discussion "time to do taxes" style would definitely bring forth all the walls and anxieties people have when asked to try something unorthodox. 

Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. 

My question was to find ways which make such exploration easier and more laid back. Like games, props etc.
To keep it light and fun.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

I’m kinda hoping this could become a serious topic but I’m skeptical.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> And what act do you want to talk with her about?


I've seen them all here , pegging ,cuckold, 3 way , gay desires , the list goes on


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> I've seen them all here , pegging ,cuckold, 3 way , gay desires , the list goes on


No, you brought it up. Not a generic list. What's your act you want to talk with her about?


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Seems that Anal sex is always on the menu / high priority


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

AC2021 said:


> Frank discussion "time to do taxes" style would definitely bring forth all the walls and anxieties people have when asked to try something unorthodox.
> 
> Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention.
> 
> ...


I think you’re overthinking it.
1. Right after sex, ask her about any fantasies or desires she might have or has ever thought about.
2. Right after sex, tell her what you’re interested in doing and see how she responds.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Spicer app is an example. BUT you have to assume the spouse will give honest answers instead of just trying to see what's on your mind and then judge you lol


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

CountryMike said:


> No, you brought it up. Not a generic list. What's your act you want to talk with her about?


I didn't bring up the topic..AC2121 did


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

AC2021 said:


> Spicer app is an example. BUT you have to assume the spouse will give honest answers instead of just trying to see what's on your mind and then judge you lol


Why are you so worried about being judged? Unless you have some things in mind that you know are likely to be out of bounds for her (or most people)?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> I didn't bring up the topic..AC2121 did


My apologies. Tx.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m kinda hoping this could become a serious topic but I’m skeptical.


Let's make it serious.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Let's make it serious.


So what act do you want to broach with spouse?

Seriously meant. Different approaches may be best.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Why are you so worried about being judged? Unless you have some things in mind that you know are likely to be out of bounds for her (or most people)?


She's very possesive and takes everything through the prism of jealousy.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Sometimes fantasies should remain just that...Fantasy


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> So what act do you want to broach with spouse?
> 
> Seriously meant. Different approaches may be best.


Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Sometimes fantasies should remain just that...Fantasy


Why would wicked weasel bikini on an exotic vacation should remain a fantasy not worth discussing?


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

Oh...you want to add another person to your bedroom..?...very possessive..I get it


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Frank discussion "time to do taxes" style would definitely bring forth all the walls and anxieties people have when asked to try something unorthodox.
> 
> Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention.
> 
> ...


I can offer, it's always best to discuss in a lighthearted way, not in the bedroom but in a casual environment.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

AC2021 said:


> She's very possesive and takes everything through the prism of jealousy.


OK, so if you want to open up the relationship and bring in other people, yeah that might be received poorly.
And it’s not just your wife, the vast majority of spouses don’t react well to that one.

Unless it’s just being brought up as a fantasy, to be kept as a fantasy and just talked about or role-played between the two of you, and not act it out in real life.

other than that, what are you worried about that might trigger her jealousy?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Why would wicked weasel bikini on an exotic vacation should remain a fantasy not worth discussing?


I'm surprised you haven't already talked with her about that. That's beginner content. Same as going braless. 

Seriously, along those lines anytime is good.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Let's make it serious.


Then tell us what you want to ask her.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Jimi007 said:


> Oh...you want to add another person to your bedroom..?...very possessive..I get it


Where did I mention that?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Where did I mention that?


What are you mentioning then?


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> OK, so if you want to open up the relationship and bring in other people, yeah that might be received poorly.
> And it’s not just your wife, the vast majority of spouses don’t react well to that one.
> 
> Unless it’s just being brought up as a fantasy, to be kept as a fantasy and just talked about or role-played between the two of you, and not act it out in real life.
> ...


Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
> That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


But you don't know until you ask her. You may be projecting what you think she'll say onto her. Likely so.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> What are you mentioning then?


Please read the Replies:

"Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. "


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Please read the Replies:
> 
> "Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. "


Did. Answered same.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
> That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


Try not to start out....hey baby be more slutty for me. 

But specific topics are good.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
> That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


I'm gonna stop you right there. It is not "jealousy" to object to adultery. Nor is it "insecurity." Those words are thrown around to dismiss and minimize the feelings of someone who has the self worth to believe themselves deserving of fidelity. Kind of a red flag that this is how you characterize her, as someone "jealous;" you're painting her as unreasonable right out of the gate.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Are any of these things you have talked about before and she has said no?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

I may catch flak for this since it is hosted by a porn site, but it is a useful tool to see what kinks a couple may want to pursue. You won't see any pornography if you click on the link. It has even been linked to by media like USA today (which is how I came across it), so please don't write it off as porn. You take the quiz separately without the other seeing your answers. It asks about tame to totally off the chart wild things. You answer no/we already do that, I'm in if she is, and yes. Those are the 3 possible answers. At the end it only shows the things where you have overlap. If one gave a hard no and the other person said yes it doesn't end up on the final list. Now, it can be gamed. If one person just answers yes to everything, you will know how the other person answered all the questions. You have to be honest.



https://www.youporn.com/quiz/



Another good one I've used is from a Christian site, so it doesn't get into anything involving other people or porn. You also have to pay for it, but I found it worth the price









Our Sexploration List - Uncovering Intimacy


Our Sexploration List is a 25-page resource designed to make it easier for you and your spouse to share your sexual likes, dislikes, desires, boundaries, and fantasies. It gives a framework for discussing over two hundred activities, words, vocalizations, name, and feelings as well as...




www.uncoveringintimacy.com





I've used these as conversation starters. They are only the beginning, but they are great ice breakers. I can't say that it has added all kinds of kinky acts to our sex life, but I do believe it has a positive impact in that it got us to talk very honestly and frankly about an intimate topic. That always makes me feel closer to my wife and that translates into better sex IMO.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention.


Most of those involve other people in your sex life, so I'm not down for the most part. 

You have to know your audience. You should be able to share honestly with your wife, but if you just know she doesn't have an exhibitionist bone in her body and is in fact turned off by it then this kind of stuff is best kept to yourself. 

Also, if you bring something up and you get a hard no that should be the end of bringing that fantasy to life.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

AC2021 said:


> Please read the Replies:
> 
> "Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. "


Why would you want your wife to dress provocatively and slutty and solicit sexual attention from other men?
I get that you want your wife to look attractive and sexy, so if she’s dressing in bag dresses and never showing her finger, that’s one thing.
Buy her some tastefully sexy outfits and tell her to wear one next time you go out.

But if you’re wanting her to go out dressed slutty, I’m not sure I understand that one. If a married woman goes out dressed overly provocatively, it generally reflects poorly on her, and you.
And you’re opening up a very dangerous can of worms by encouraging your wife to solicit sexual attention from other men.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
> That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


She feels that you being hot for her sexually = it is okay to commit adultery? That isn't jealousy, that just makes zero sense.

ETA: I get it now, I read it wrong. She thinks you wanting HER to be slutty, and her following through with it, would be tantamount to giving you permission to cheat. I kind of see her point and I definitely don't call that jealousy. Why do you want other people to see your wife nude or braless? Maybe she really values her body to the point that she only wants to share it with her husband. She likely sees a slippery slope. She gets other guys looking at her and maybe hitting on her. Now you can go do the same. This is getting close to asking for a threesome or something along those lines. That can easily be interrupted as her not being enough for you, you place such a low value on her that you will share her sexuality, you having desire for someone else, etc. Again, this all comes down to knowing your audience.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Are any of these things you have talked about before and she has said no?


I'm betting no.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Why would you want your wife to dress provocatively and slutty and solicit sexual attention from other men?
> I get that you want your wife to look attractive and sexy, so if she’s dressing in bag dresses and never showing her finger, that’s one thing.
> Buy her some tastefully sexy outfits and tell her to wear one next time you go out.
> 
> ...


Whereas I like the W to dress provocatively for me when we go out at times. But we're handsy with each other so all who may look twice know we're together. And I'm almost 6' 4", 190, and an obvious deterrent to any obnoxious attention.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

CountryMike said:


> Whereas I like the W to dress provocatively for me when we go out at times. But we're handsy with each other so all who may look twice know we're together. And I'm almost 6' 4", 190, and an obvious deterrent to any obnoxious attention.


Why do you need her to get other male attention?


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

My wife and I have been having this discussion about what’s okay and desires. The huge hangup is oral both giving and receiving as she wants to do neither. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to not desire it.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I may catch flak for this since it is hosted by a porn site, but it is a useful tool to see what kinks a couple may want to pursue. You won't see any pornography if you click on the link. It has even been linked to by media like USA today (which is how I came across it), so please don't write it off as porn. You take the quiz separately without the other seeing your answers. It asks about tame to totally off the chart wild things. You answer no/we already do that, I'm in if she is, and yes. Those are the 3 possible answers. At the end it only shows the things where you have overlap. If one gave a hard no and the other person said yes it doesn't end up on the final list. Now, it can be gamed. If one person just answers yes to everything, you will know how the other person answered all the questions. You have to be honest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Why do you need her to get other male attention?


It's not for that, I just like her dressed sexily for me. Nothing to do with other guys or gals.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

I think it helps to ask for new things "in the heat of the moment", to get the best chance of agreeableness. Spouses can easily get into sexual ruts that become incredibly boring for both, but neither wants to broach the subject of changing things up. I find it amazing that partners become MORE shy over many years together, but this is probably common. Both secretly desire to let their "kink flag fly", yet they self-censor and miss out on a lot of pleasure.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

What is one fantasy or desire you have that your spouse is totally against?


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

CountryMike said:


> I'm surprised you haven't already talked with her about that. That's beginner content. Same as going braless.
> 
> Seriously, along those lines anytime is good.


Well I am glad this went down easy for you..


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> Why do you need her to get other male attention?


Confidence building?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

AC2021 said:


> Confidence building?


For him or her?


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

GoodDad5 said:


> What is one fantasy or desire you have that your spouse is totally against?


Anal, anal cream pie, oral cream pie, facial cream pie, doing it more than thrice in one day, going past the 7 standard positions, her taking part in the act without getting a cramp even though I do 99% of the thrusting, etc.

I must've been the unluckiest man in the world because all the women, ALL of them, I've had sex with were awful in bed. Some nights I've felt like I was f-cking a corpse. And I'm good in the sack (or so I've heard). Orgasm is guaranteed. I put down a good 40 minutes of pipe every time.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

JBLH said:


> I must've been the unluckiest man in the world because all the women, ALL of them, I've had sex with were awful in bed. Some nights I've felt like I was f-cking a corpse. And I'm good in the sack (or so I've heard). Orgasm is guaranteed. I put down a good 40 minutes of pipe every time.


Yeah. Musta been them. Makes perfect sense that it wouldn't have anything to do with the one constant in your experience. Must be everyone else. 

I'm calling this one.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Well I am glad this went down easy for you..


It did. My point is that you can do it. If I can, you can. And so far over 30yrs M.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm gonna stop you right there. It is not "jealousy" to object to adultery. Nor is it "insecurity." Those words are thrown around to dismiss and minimize the feelings of someone who has the self worth to believe themselves deserving of fidelity. Kind of a red flag that this is how you characterize her, as someone "jealous;" you're painting her as unreasonable right out of the gate.


Trust me. She's borderline unreasonable when it comes to that. Otherwise amazing.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> My wife and I have been having this discussion about what’s okay and desires. The huge hangup is oral both giving and receiving as she wants to do neither. I don’t think I’ll ever be able to not desire it.


Oral is pretty standard table stakes. If she’s refusing to do that, she just doesn’t desire you as a man. That’s what you need to be addressing.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Trust me. She's borderline unreasonable when it comes to that. Otherwise amazing.


Unreasonable when it comes to adultery. You consider that unreasonable.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Big difference between sexy and slutty. Although admittedly subjective to some degree


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

GoodDad5 said:


> What is one fantasy or desire you have that your spouse is totally against?


Another woman. I made comment about one such recently and got the icy look.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

For who?


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> Oral is pretty standard table stakes. If she’s refusing to do that, she just doesn’t desire you as a man. That’s what you need to be addressing.


Oral is not a problem with us. She would actually do the whole 9 yards when it comes to that and loves being eaten out.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

DudeInProgress said:


> For who?


For us. I wouldn't be with another woman unless I absolutely knew it would not hurt her or be something she'd regret and resent down the line. The only way I can think that she could assure me it is okay with her is for her to be a "hands on" part of it.

I didn't get anywhere near telling her the whole thing, though, as the temperature had already dropped to subzero.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

CountryMike said:


> Had to include poop. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣


Ok no chimps allowed!


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

JBLH said:


> Anal, anal cream pie, oral cream pie, facial cream pie, doing it more than thrice in one day, going past the 7 standard positions, her taking part in the act without getting a cramp even though I do 99% of the thrusting, etc.
> 
> I must've been the unluckiest man in the world because all the women, ALL of them, I've had sex with were awful in bed. Some nights I've felt like I was f-cking a corpse. And I'm good in the sack (or so I've heard). Orgasm is guaranteed. I put down a good 40 minutes of pipe every time.


So how do you know what she would or wouldn't do if you haven't asked her?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Divinely Favored said:


> Ok no chimps allowed!


I know! It's not where I'd have gone! 🙂🤣😮😮


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> For us. I wouldn't be with another woman unless I absolutely knew it would not hurt her or be something she'd regret and resent down the line. The only way I can think that she could assure me it is okay with her is for her to be a "hands on" part of it.
> 
> I didn't get anywhere near telling her the whole thing, though, as the temperature had already dropped to subzero.


I wonder why 🤔


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> For us. I wouldn't be with another woman unless I absolutely knew it would not hurt her or be something she'd regret and resent down the line. The only way I can think that she could assure me it is okay with her is for her to be a "hands on" part of it.
> 
> I didn't get anywhere near telling her the whole thing, though, as the temperature had already dropped to subzero.


Being with another woman is an absolute no for 99.99% of women unless it's a debased zoomer with daddy issues and masochistic tendencies.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Yeah. Musta been them. Makes perfect sense that it wouldn't have anything to do with the one constant in your experience. Must be everyone else.
> 
> I'm calling this one.


Eaaaasy. Eeeeeaasy. I’m not talking about all women, only the ones I had sex with.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

AC2021 said:


> Thoughts?


If you want it, keeping it to yourself is going to ensure that your wife doesn’t go there with you.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

AC2021 said:


> Being with another woman is an absolute no for 99.99% of women unless it's a debased zoomer with daddy issues and masochistic tendencies.


Hmm. Not sure that is speaking for women in general.


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

Julie's Husband said:


> Hmm. Not sure that is speaking for women in general.


I agree with him that its a no no for the vast majority of women. Most women want a husband who is faithful to them.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Eaaaasy. Eeeeeaasy. I’m not talking about all women, only the ones I had sex with.


Still, dude. All of them were bad? Come on. That's a heck of a coincidence. 🤣


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

Diana7 said:


> So how do you know what she would or wouldn't do if you haven't asked her?


I did. I feel for her in a way because, sexually speaking, I’m a really late late bloomer, and she was an early bloomer. I started exercising about 20 years ago and my testosterone level are through the roof, which is not good @ 50. I feel sorry for her because I’m constantly horny… constantly fondling her… hugging her, kissing her.

Another one of the downsides of having high test, at least in my case, is that I can’t orgasm quickly, so I’m on her 35-40 minutes thrusting away and she’s like “come on baby!” No wonder she doesn’t want to do it a second time… Well, that and she gets cramps.

I’ve told her many times that mixing it up would probably help in terms of shortening the coitus cycle, but she’s not interested. She’s very “conservative” in bed.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Still, dude. All of them were bad? Come on. That's a heck of a coincidence. 🤣


Oh yeah, I’m to blame too, that’s for sure.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Oh yeah, I’m to blame too, that’s for sure.


It's probably a little shared, especially when you first got started. It's like pancakes, the first couple are throwaways.


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## BoSlander (5 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Oral is pretty standard table stakes. If she’s refusing to do that, she just doesn’t desire you as a man. That’s what you need to be addressing.


Yes, oral is pretty standard. But she has to perform it right, otherwise you can go limp mid coitus.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Oral is my desire but my wife finds both giving and receiving disgusting, so I’m doing without.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Oral is my desire but my wife finds both giving and receiving disgusting, so I’m doing without.


Highly likely that she’s done it before, just doesn’t want to do it with you.

How is the sexual dynamic outside of oral? Is she usually an enthusiastic participant in sex with you?


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

AC2021 said:


> This might seem straightforward but while in marriage one does not want to risk upsetting the spouse even though it's the truth is what is causing the upset. Out of love, affection, weakness and respect.
> 
> That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?





AC2021 said:


> Frank discussion "time to do taxes" style would definitely bring forth all the walls and anxieties people have when asked to try something unorthodox.
> 
> Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention.
> 
> ...


In a serious vein, I do have some advice. It is the same advice I gave to a similar question earlier this year

When my wife and I were in a Sex Starved Marriage, we went to a sex therapist for counseling. the ST suggested and assigned us lots of homework. The most appropriate to your question was for each of us to fill out a "Yes/No/Maybe" list (you can google it. Some are for teens and have to do with consent, others are for vanilla adults, and still others are for those with serious kinks.

Find one you like that you can edit or find two. Print out two copies. Give one to your wife to fill out as to things that she would enjoy doing (yes), things she would never do in a million years (no), and things that under the right circumstance she might try to see if they turn her off (maybe). You do the same.

Now for the really important part. You need to discuss the "rules." This is where our ST helped us a lot. She explained that most people don't share their sexual fantasies, because they are afraid of shocking their partner with their taboo thoughts or they are afraid that their partner will hold their "kink" over their head in the next argument as leverage. The key is that what ever is said about an sexual act has to be treated confidentially, that there can be no judgemental reaction (you sick bastard). When you share the lists you need to discuss your reasons why you put a yes, a no, and a maybe without any judgemental comments from your partner. You also need to understand that you owe it to your partner to try to figure out ways that some of the "no's" and "maybe's" into the maybe and yes column. I will give some suggestions later. It is really hard for vanilla folks to not immediately get judgemental, my wife did. Remember the "No's" should be left to fantasy and not reality.

Another rule is if you try something and you both like it that, you have to promise that you aren't going to ask for it twice a week, once a month, but maybe once a quarter of a year you can try it again. The next rule is that if you try something and you don't like it you might try it in another year and discuss ahead of time how to make it better. A final rule is that you are not going to try something new each week, you will agree on a time to try new things like once a month and stick to it. Try all the Yes/Yes first, then move on to Yes/Maybe, with last Maybe/Maybe. Try doing a new list every year or every other year.

And now what I posted:

56  ·  Mar 29, 2022


> Funfilledcouple said:
> My wife and I have started to share some of our fantasies and stories....my wife always seems more reluctant to share than me but eventually warms up to it? Is this normal?
> 
> Also, she has finally admitted that she fantasizes about other men (faceless) take her from behind in her favourite position..... is it normal for women to not want to share that they get aroused thinking of others?


A few random thoughts. "Normal" can also refer to a bell-shaped curve. For something to be within a normal distribution range means it can be pretty far from either the mean or the median and quite unusual. Some things are just more common than others. You are individuals, focus on what you both want or would find interesting to try. Don't worry about what others may or may not want to do or how common it is the things the two of you both want to do.

The Sex Therapist who helped my wife and me save our marriage had us take a Yes/No/Maybe list separately and then share them after we had filled them out. That is a good way to initiate sharing of sexual desires among a couple and can even includes some fantasy sharing.

Some sexual fantasies are best left to the imagination. Role playing can expand the range of sexual acts that can be safely dabbled in. However, all sex should be consensual and should no emotionally harm the marriage.

Someone commented about how you can't have a 12" penis in real life, even if it was your fantasy. Well in a role playing fantasy, you can have either a 12" penis sleeve or strap-on dildo and if your imagination is strong enough that might allow a person to live enough of their fantasy.

There is an interesting TED talk on monogamish about how one can role play a 3-some and yet maintain fidelity if it is important to you (and for most as she points out earlier in the talk open relationships don't often work out). I don't hold much of what she says, but the part at about the 10 minute part does show some ways that a couple who wants monogamy can add non-monogamy role playing to their sex life. Jessica O'Reily Vancouver TED talk on Monogamish

I would say that sharing sexual fantasies takes a lot of courage and so it is not that common. When my wife and I did our Yes/No/Maybe list suggested by the Sex therapist, my wife reacted quite negatively to some of my maybe's. Which required a little extra discussion by the Sex Therapist.

A comment that has stuck with me is "Q: If a husband can't tell his wife his deepest and darkest sexual fantasy to, who can he? A: A prostitute who will respectfully listen, not judge him, and figure out how much she will charge him for it." The point is that you should be able to share your deepest darkest secrets with your spouse. You the two of you should be able to be vulnerable with each other and share taboo thoughts, with fear of being put down or shamed.

Good luck on you and your wife's journey of exploration, but be careful.




AC2021 said:


> Because she can interpret my desire for her to be "slutty" as a permission for me to be adulterous.
> That's the kind of jealousy we're talking about.


When I suggested something similar, but limited to being worn in the bedroom, my wife told me that I didn't marry a ****, so don't expect her to dress like one, even if no one else will know.


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

DudeInProgress said:


> Highly likely that she’s done it before, just doesn’t want to do it with you.
> 
> How is the sexual dynamic outside of oral? Is she usually an enthusiastic participant in sex with you?


Not good. She’s reluctant and only does it because I want it.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Our fantasy discussions have been easy. Wife says she doesn't have any. Doesn't want to hear mine. Discussion over.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Not good. She’s reluctant and only does it because I want it.


OK, so your wife isn’t attracted to you and doesn’t desire you. That’s the issue.
So the question is, what are you going to do about it?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> OK, so your wife isn’t attracted to you and doesn’t desire you. That’s the issue.
> So the question is, what are you going to do about it?


Except for complaining about it to no end. I expect he will do nothing at all about it.


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## Jimi007 (6 mo ago)

@AC2021. All kidding aside... I get the insanely jealous thing. My wife is the same way. If I even talk to the waitress at dinner too long it's a problem 

I'm not sure why you would want to wTch your wife be hit on by other guys / Attract attention to her while you watch ? Kind of gets your motor running ? What if your wife went all the way iñ front of you and you watched ? How would you feel about that ? I'm asking this because your wife has obvious boundaries which I'm thinking that maybe you don't? Are you looking to " Hot Wife " fantasy ?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

AC2021 said:


> Confidence building?


Until she starts thinking, "Hey I can do better than hubby, sexy Chad over there is giving me that look"


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

AC2021 said:


> Why would wicked weasel bikini on an exotic vacation should remain a fantasy not worth discussing?


Ok, not a bad fantasy. I get it. Hot looking mama to sho! Great tease and eye candy. Only problem is....she has to want to as well and feel comfortable and safe with it


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## GoodDad5 (9 mo ago)

Personal said:


> Except for complaining about it to no end. I expect he will do nothing at all about it.


Trust me, if today’s huge argument is any indication, things will be changing one way or the other. I’m done feeling left out.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

AC2021 said:


> Please read the Replies:
> 
> "Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. "


Ok, so.you could dig on some light exhibition? Maybe she doesn't want others men's and women's eyes undressing her and doing other things to her! Maybe you should relax and ask her for a suggestion that she might find a little fun to do ....but privately. No cameras! After 38 years my wife has finally really trusted me enough to have a few "spank bank" pics in a lock file on my phone.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

TinyTbone said:


> After 38 years my wife has finally really trusted me enough to have a few "spank bank" pics in a lock file on my phone.


You know those aren’t private. Nothing on your phone is private, “lock file” or not. May as well put them on the internet. Poor woman, how can she face your friends. Ugh, so cruel.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

JBLH said:


> Anal, anal cream pie, oral cream pie, facial cream pie, doing it more than thrice in one day, going past the 7 standard positions, her taking part in the act without getting a cramp even though I do 99% of the thrusting, etc.
> 
> I must've been the unluckiest man in the world because all the women, ALL of them, I've had sex with were awful in bed. Some nights I've felt like I was f-cking a corpse. And I'm good in the sack (or so I've heard). Orgasm is guaranteed. I put down a good 40 minutes of pipe every time.


Only about 18% of women reported being able to climax during intercourse from vaginal penetration alone. So, 40 minutes of pipe is not going to do it for most women. Don't get me wrong, PIV sex is great. But a lot more is needed for most women.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You know those aren’t private. Nothing on your phone is private, “lock file” or not. May as well put them on the internet. Poor woman, how can she face your friends. Ugh, so cruel.


Oh no! 🙈 How terrible that he has sexy pictures of his wife on his phone.

That said how on earth that extrapolates to “how can she face your friends” is beyond me, if he isn’t showing them off.

That said your advice encouraging him to post them on the internet isn’t all bad. Since doing exactly that on Fet, certainly works for my wife and I.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

GoodDad5 said:


> Trust me, if today’s huge argument is any indication, things will be changing one way or the other. I’m done feeling left out.


Arguing is pointless and stupid.
You can’t make her want to **** you. All you can do is make yourself more ****able. That’s where your focus needs to be.
She’ll either come around or she won’t.

But you need to have (or build) enough confidence, attractiveness and value as a man to decide that you’re going to have sex either way.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

AC2021 said:


> Trust me. She's borderline unreasonable when it comes to that. Otherwise amazing.


How long have you been married?


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

JBLH said:


> I did. I feel for her in a way because, sexually speaking, I’m a really late late bloomer, and she was an early bloomer. I started exercising about 20 years ago and my testosterone level are through the roof, which is not good @ 50. I feel sorry for her because I’m constantly horny… constantly fondling her… hugging her, kissing her.
> 
> Another one of the downsides of having high test, at least in my case, is that I can’t orgasm quickly, so I’m on her 35-40 minutes thrusting away and she’s like “come on baby!” No wonder she doesn’t want to do it a second time… Well, that and she gets cramps.
> 
> I’ve told her many times that mixing it up would probably help in terms of shortening the coitus cycle, but she’s not interested. She’s very “conservative” in bed.


My wife just keeps enjoying the ride on the rollercoaster of love until I get there or give out. She says it is like a wave, except the valleys are just lower intensity but the orgasm does not stop, the waves just keep rolling over her.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

AC2021 said:


> This might seem straightforward but while in marriage one does not want to risk upsetting the spouse even though it's the truth is what is causing the upset. Out of love, affection, weakness and respect.
> 
> That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?


Lol, fantasy is just fantasy. Everyone has them. Day dreams at work, school or home. They could be about anything and include anyone and no one. Discussions about each of yours fantasies is fine. It's the expectation to take it further and bring into reality is the problem. Some ideas are personal, very personal...i.e.; watching each other masturbate. Something we all do, but not in front of others. Lots of fantasy there. It becomes a problem when our partner wants to make fantasy a reality. Look at the hot wife scenario or cuckold scenario. The porn industry would have so many believe it's very common. It's not. It happens, but not that commonly. All are taking great risk introducing another into the relationship. Sooner or later someone's gonna get hurt. Polyamory same thing. Some fantasy should stay such. Maybe costume role play or cosplay, could be good. As long as both agree and no one gets forced or coerced into it, as adults all is fair.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

TexasMom1216 said:


> You know those aren’t private. Nothing on your phone is private, “lock file” or not. May as well put them on the internet. Poor woman, how can she face your friends. Ugh, so cruel.


Well she faces me by turning smiling, hugging me and loving me. I deleted them later and emptied the trash. I do love and respect her. It took a lot for her to do that. I won't chance anyone seeing my beauty that way!


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Yes, oral is pretty standard. But she has to perform it right, otherwise you can go limp mid coitus.


mid coitus limp is a reflection of your state of mind not how good the BJ was before.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Diana7 said:


> For him or her?


I guess this bears repeating. When I want her to dress sexily it's for my own wants, nothing to do with other folks, guys or gals. Both our love languages include lots of touch. 

Don't get locked in on your own preconceptions. Many couples do things not for others but to enjoy themselves.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Yes, oral is pretty standard. But she has to perform it right, otherwise you can go limp mid coitus.


You've got to stop watching tv while getting a bj. That's rude.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Our fantasy discussions have been easy. Wife says she doesn't have any. Doesn't want to hear mine. Discussion over.


That really wasn't a discussion of fantasies, it was the avoidance of a discussion.

As I posted above, it takes courage and being willing to be vulnerable to discuss fantasies. You will learn things about your partner that you may think you don't want to know. But if the two of you are brave enough, you with have taboo secrets to share that only you know about your partner and that your partner knows about you.


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## 342693 (Mar 2, 2020)

My ex used to love to talk during sex. But I really got tired of her calling me from a hotel.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

SCDad01 said:


> My ex used to love to talk during sex. But I really got tired of her calling me from a hotel.


I wasn't really sure whether to laugh or cry at that one.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

AC2021 said:


> This might seem straightforward but while in marriage one does not want to risk upsetting the spouse even though it's the truth is what is causing the upset. Out of love, affection, weakness and respect.
> 
> That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?


Discussing fantasies and desires should be part of every couples normal sex life. Finding a level of mutual trust that you won't be judged makes everything better.


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## TinyTbone (6 mo ago)

As my wife and I have been together for awhile, we've starting having fun with odd fantasy now and again. Case in point. Couple weeks ago,at the end of my work week, she pulled out a little surprise. She pulled out a French maids costume, only it wasn't for her...it was for me! Well that was a surprise. So we we had a blast as I "changed" into my clothes for the evening and served her at her will. I felt a bit awkward at first, but hey I'm open minded and she liked the idea and we ran with it and had a super night of fun and other things. It goes both ways right?


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## butterfly_bean (5 mo ago)

try something new like self loving lifestyle.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

AC2021 said:


> mid coitus limp is a reflection of your state of mind not how good the BJ was before.


It can also be physical. I had experience with sex when I was castrate and it is all in the mind. With no or not enough testosterone to drive arousal, it all depends on laser focus with erotic thought and physical stimulation. Since it is all in the mind, any distraction can cause immediate loss of erection.

We found that the most durable erection was at pre orgasm level of arousal. With no libido, actually getting to orgasm can take quite a while so this works out well.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

Young at Heart said:


> That really wasn't a discussion of fantasies, it was the avoidance of a discussion.
> 
> As I posted above, it takes courage and being willing to be vulnerable to discuss fantasies. You will learn things about your partner that you may think you don't want to know. But if the two of you are brave enough, you with have taboo secrets to share that only you know about your partner and that your partner knows about you.


Oh I know it wasn't but she isn't going to share any as she says she doesn't have any. And mine have always just upset her or freaked her out so that's why the discussion ends as I have learned sharing fantasies can only be a bad thing from my perspective.

So its not really lack of courage, its her lack of interest.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

happyhusband0005 said:


> Discussing fantasies and desires should be part of every couples normal sex life. Finding a level of mutual trust that you won't be judged makes everything better.


I agree. Sadly it is not however.

And I think that's because many times one partner hears the fantasies and reads into it more than it really is.

For example I suggested going to a topless beach once as I thought it would be fun but all my wife heard is "he wants to look at other women's tits".

Maybe I was wrong to share THAT kind of fantasy? But that IS one of my fantasies.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> For example I suggested going to a topless beach once as I thought it would be fun but all my wife heard is "he wants to look at other women's tits".


Do you think her conclusion was unreasonable? You wanted to go somewhere to see other naked women, what other conclusion should she have drawn? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly asking. The only reason you go to semi-nude or nude places is to see naked people, I'm not sure where the disconnect is.


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Do you think her conclusion was unreasonable? You wanted to go somewhere to see other naked women, what other conclusion should she have drawn? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly asking. The only reason you go to semi-nude or nude places is to see naked people, I'm not sure where the disconnect is.


Oh I don't disagree but then a few point arise from that.


Should I edit my fantasies to fit what she wants to hear?
Should I not have fantasies like that at all?

I don't disagree with your line of thought but if that indeed holds true, than the comments I was replying to are then not true in my situation as "I cannot freely discuss fantasies with my wife" and that level of mutual trust to at least talk about them (not even acting upon them) is not there.

If I say my fantasy is to walk along the beach holding her hand, sure its what she wants to hear but it is no longer my fantasy. Hence my original reply to this thread some days ago:

_Our fantasy discussions have been easy. Wife says she doesn't have any. Doesn't want to hear mine. Discussion over._


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Oh I don't disagree but then a few point arise from that.
> 
> 
> Should I edit my fantasies to fit what she wants to hear?
> ...


So she was right. Your fantasy is other women. You wanted to go to the nude beach so you could see tits you find attractive instead of hers. You're surprised and somehow the victim because she doesn't want to hear that your ultimate fantasy is other women. I don't blame her for not telling you her fantasies, I wouldn't trust you either. Why would she ever want to be vulnerable with someone who clearly feels he's settling for her and would welcome the opportunity to be with ANYONE else? You honestly believe that she has an obligation to sit and listen to you go on and on about other women and that not believing she should have to sit and listen to that is her being "mean" to you?

It is staggering to me that you paint yourself as the victim here. Do I remember correctly that the only reason you're still married is because you don't want to lose money in a divorce?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So she was right. Your fantasy is other women. You wanted to go to the nude beach so you could see tits you find attractive instead of hers. You're surprised and somehow the victim because she doesn't want to hear that your ultimate fantasy is other women. I don't blame her for not telling you her fantasies, I wouldn't trust you either. Why would she ever want to be vulnerable with someone who clearly feels he's settling for her and would welcome the opportunity to be with ANYONE else? You honestly believe that she has an obligation to sit and listen to you go on and on about other women and that not believing she should have to sit and listen to that is her being "mean" to you?
> 
> It is staggering to me that you paint yourself as the victim here. Do I remember correctly that the only reason you're still married is because you don't want to lose money in a divorce?


Once again, you spin things to what you want to hear. You completely missed the point of my reply. Be staggered all you like.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> Once again, you spin things to what you want to hear. You completely missed the point of my reply. Be staggered all you like.


Then what is the point? That you should be able to say whatever you want with zero consequences? Can't help but notice you didn't say I was wrong, just that you don't like what I said. Tell me what I said that is incorrect. Then tell me why she would want to hear your fantasies when they have nothing to do with her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So she was right. Your fantasy is other women. You wanted to go to the nude beach so you could see tits you find attractive instead of hers. You're surprised and somehow the victim because she doesn't want to hear that your ultimate fantasy is other women. I don't blame her for not telling you her fantasies, I wouldn't trust you either. Why would she ever want to be vulnerable with someone who clearly feels he's settling for her and would welcome the opportunity to be with ANYONE else? You honestly believe that she has an obligation to sit and listen to you go on and on about other women and that not believing she should have to sit and listen to that is her being "mean" to you?
> 
> It is staggering to me that you paint yourself as the victim here. Do I remember correctly that the only reason you're still married is because you don't want to lose money in a divorce?


You know I can have a Ferrari in the garage and still admire other guy's Ford's and Chevy's, but I would never trade the Ferrari.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> You know I can have a Ferrari in the garage and still admire other guy's Ford's and Chevy's, but I would never trade the Ferrari.


By this logic, you should be able to drive the other guys' Fords and Chevys, even rent cars, but because you don't intend to trade in the Ferrari, it has no say in what you're doing and certainly no right to complain. Would you be ok if lots of other men drove your Ferrari? Since you're driving other cars, it should be fine, right? The Ferrari isn't going to go live in their garage, just ride around with them. Is that cool


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> By this logic, you should be able to drive the other guys' Fords and Chevys, even rent cars, but because you don't intend to trade in the Ferrari, it has no say in what you're doing and certainly no right to complain. Would you be ok if lots of other men drove your Ferrari? Since you're driving other cars, it should be fine, right? The Ferrari isn't going to go live in their garage, just ride around with them. Is that cool


Oh no! No one drives my Ferrari! And why would I want to drive a Ford or Chevy with a Ferrari in the garage? I can admire their curves and paint job, but they've got nothing under the hood compared to my Ferrari.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Oh no! No one drives my Ferrari! And why would I want to drive a Ford or Chevy with a Ferrari in the garage? I can admire their curves and paint job, but they've got nothing under the hood compared to my Ferrari.


 OK fine. But why would you go to the car show if you have the car you want? And if you did go to the car show, why would your car want to go and listen to you fawn over all the younger, perkier cars at the show? (There's a limit to how far I can go with this analogy because I really don't know much about cars.)

Bottom line, it is absurd to think that a husband should be able to tell his wife that he wants other women and have her be happy about it, much less have her say "Sure! I'll go with you to the nude beach so I can sit there alone and watch you gawk at all the women you prefer to me." Really? I bet another fantasy of his is a threesome. Of course, with him and two young, hot women while his wife sits in the corner. But if she said her fantasy was to have two guys on here while HE watched, I bet he'd come here and everyone would tell him to divorce her. Honestly, this site makes me wonder if marriage is a good idea at all.

There's a saying going around that prostitutes are better than wives because they don't judge your fantasy, they just try to figure out how much to charge you for it. Do you guys have any idea how that actually sounds? That your wife should just figure out how much to charge you for whatever nasty thing you want to do to humiliate her and not have any feelings about it or you? You do realize that the prostitute wants to make as much money as possible and then forget you exist? That's how you guys want your wives to feel?


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Bottom line, it is absurd to think that a husband should be able to tell his wife that he wants other women and have her be happy about it, much less have her say "Sure! I'll go with you to the nude beach so I can sit there alone and watch you gawk at all the women you prefer to me."


I'm surprised at that reaction. Not about the situation, but the level of response and perhaps reading in more than is there. Being able to enjoy the beauty of other women does not imply that the wife is the lesser. Sometimes my wife will point out "that cute woman" and focus my attention where I might not.

On the other hand, I am not sure how I would react if my wife was obviously enjoying looking at other men. Say a male strip club or at a "muscle beach". She has made appreciative remarks about other men in the past and I might have had a pang of envy, but I am secure in knowing that the admiration is just that and that I receive the same admiration plus emotional involvement.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> I'm surprised at that reaction. Not about the situation, but the level of response and perhaps reading in more than is there. Being able to enjoy the beauty of other women does not imply that the wife is the lesser. Sometimes my wife will point out "that cute woman" and focus my attention where I might not.
> 
> On the other hand, I am not sure how I would react if my wife was obviously enjoying looking at other men. Say a male strip club or at a "muscle beach". She has made appreciative remarks about other men in the past and I might have had a pang of envy, but I am secure in knowing that the admiration is just that and that I receive the same admiration plus emotional involvement.


We're talking about two different things. This came up because a poster told his wife his fantasy was to go to a nude beach. She was not excited that his fantasy was to look at other naked women. His fantasies don't involve her, so she doesn't want to hear about them, and he thinks she's being "judgmental." We're not talking about a guy glancing at other women. We're talking about going to a place where lots of women are naked and interacting with them. It's two different things.

I am so weary of men who say women who expect respect and fidelity are "insecure." If I were insecure, wouldn't I be willing to stand by while my husband slept around and just be grateful for whatever crumbs he threw back my way when he was done? Because if I were insecure I'd believe I wasn't worth fidelity. And as you say, it is NOT reciprocal. If his wife's fantasy was to be with a bunch of other men, everyone here would tell him to divorce her.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> OK fine. But why would you go to the car show if you have the car you want? And if you did go to the car show, why would your car want to go and listen to you fawn over all the younger, perkier cars at the show? (There's a limit to how far I can go with this analogy because I really don't know much about cars.)
> 
> Bottom line, it is absurd to think that a husband should be able to tell his wife that he wants other women and have her be happy about it, much less have her say "Sure! I'll go with you to the nude beach so I can sit there alone and watch you gawk at all the women you prefer to me." Really? I bet another fantasy of his is a threesome. Of course, with him and two young, hot women while his wife sits in the corner. But if she said her fantasy was to have two guys on here while HE watched, I bet he'd come here and everyone would tell him to divorce her. Honestly, this site makes me wonder if marriage is a good idea at all.
> 
> There's a saying going around that prostitutes are better than wives because they don't judge your fantasy, they just try to figure out how much to charge you for it. Do you guys have any idea how that actually sounds? That your wife should just figure out how much to charge you for whatever nasty thing you want to do to humiliate her and not have any feelings about it or you? You do realize that the prostitute wants to make as much money as possible and then forget you exist? That's how you guys want your wives to feel?


Maybe I like to go to car shows and make fun of the guys for having a car that can't hold a candle to mine. I hope you realize the car thing was all tongue in cheek. But for the record I've won every car show I've been to in real life, even at a national level. 

I think you are engaging in reductio ad absurdum. Just because you can follow nearly every line of thought a man has to a ridiculous end doesn't mean it is the norm. 

I have zero interest in being with another woman and my wife has zero interest in being with another man. In spite of that we both can appreciate the beauty in other people. There are times we may see an incredibly handsome guy in the store, walking by, whatever and we will both look at each other and have the "wow did you see that look". It's okay, my wife is human. She doesn't think damn I want to **** him, just he is really good looking. Even as a guy I'm able to appreciate that. Just this past weekend we were at a lake in a spot where dozens of boats anchor and everyone hangs out and parties. We were laying on floats together and a woman with huge breasts walked by and we both gave each other that wow look. Again, no thought of I want to bang that. My wife even asked something along the lines of "Do you like those big boobies?" My response was honest, that of course they're nice to look as a novelty, but I'll take yours any day over them. I wasn't blowing smoke up her butt, I was 100% truthful.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> We're talking about two different things. This came up because a poster told his wife his fantasy was to go to a nude beach. She was not excited that his fantasy was to look at other naked women. His fantasies don't involve her, so she doesn't want to hear about them, and he thinks she's being "judgmental." We're not talking about a guy glancing at other women. We're talking about going to a place where lots of women are naked and interacting with them. It's two different things.
> 
> I am so weary of men who say women who expect respect and fidelity are "insecure." If I were insecure, wouldn't I be willing to stand by while my husband slept around and just be grateful for whatever crumbs he threw back my way when he was done? Because if I were insecure I'd believe I wasn't worth fidelity. And as you say, it is NOT reciprocal. If his wife's fantasy was to be with a bunch of other men, everyone here would tell him to divorce her.


I read that he would like he and wife to go to a topless beach together.

I certainly don't see any value in women putting up with husbands who don't respect them. My reaction to a woman's fantasy to be with other men would be based on the level of interaction and whether it sets her husband aside.My wife does not put on blinders when other men are around and it's never been a problem.

I lived out "every man's fantasy" and it drove me to seeking a long term relationship and to my wife. I really didn't appreciate living that fantasy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Maybe I like to go to car shows and make fun of the guys for having a car that can't hold a candle to mine. I hope you realize the car thing was all tongue in cheek. But for the record I've won every car show I've been to in real life, even at a national level.
> 
> I think you are engaging in reductio ad absurdum. Just because you can follow nearly every line of thought a man has to a ridiculous end doesn't mean it is the norm.
> 
> I have zero interest in being with another woman and my wife has zero interest in being with another man. In spite of that we both can appreciate the beauty in other people. There are times we may see an incredibly handsome guy in the store, walking by, whatever and we will both look at each other and have the "wow did you see that look". It's okay, my wife is human. She doesn't think damn I want to **** him, just he is really good looking. Even as a guy I'm able to appreciate that. Just this past weekend we were at a lake in a spot where dozens of boats anchor and everyone hangs out and parties. We were laying on floats together and a woman with huge breasts walked by and we both gave each other that wow look. Again, no thought of I want to bang that. My wife even asked something along the lines of "Do you like those big boobies?" My response was honest, that of course they're nice to look as a novelty, but I'll take yours any day over them. I wasn't blowing smoke up her butt, I was 100% truthful.


Again, you guys are equating seeing attractive people out in the world to seeking out a nude beach specifically to interact with women who are naked. His fantasy was centered around strangers, his wife wasn't in it. Those two situations are different and we can't have an honest discussion about this "fantasy" question if you are going to argue that they are the same. That is what's ridiculous, not the implication that telling a wife your fantasy has nothing do with her is hurtful.



BigDaddyNY said:


> Maybe I like to go to car shows and make fun of the guys for having a car that can't hold a candle to mine. I hope you realize the car thing was all tongue in cheek. But for the record I've won every car show I've been to in real life, even at a national level.


Ok. I know nothing about cars or car shows, but I'm sure that's exciting. And of course I knew it was tongue in cheek, that's why I said I could only take it so far. If we'd gotten into the weeds with car parts I wouldn't have been able to make salient comparisons.

Believe it or not, this kind of thing is helpful to me. I'm struggling with something and this is further proof that I am correct in my assumptions. So while I realize I am passionate about this, I'm not mad about it. Not a single truth coming out in this thread is surprising to me. I'm disappointed I was correct, that makes me really sad, but I would rather know the truth. So, thanks for that.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BigDaddyNY said:


> We were laying on floats together and a woman with huge breasts walked by and we both gave each other that wow look. Again, no thought of I want to bang that. My wife even asked something along the lines of "Do you like those big boobies?" My response was honest, that of course they're nice to look as a novelty, but I'll take yours any day over them. I wasn't blowing smoke up her butt, I was 100% truthful.


My wife often tells me that such and such woman is carrying silicon and has me looking at that woman's bosom. I'm not into breasts; or at least large breasts and I am shy so having my attention directed to the woman's bosom makes me uncomfortable.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> I read that he would like he and wife to go to a topless beach together.


Which is just so cruel.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Hmm, I see what both Texasmom and BigDaddy are saying.

I think though, like anything, if you have healthy boundaries, exploring and discussing fantasies can be really fun. #healthyboundaries ✌


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

It is fine and normal to have fantasies. It's good to have a trusting relationship with your spouse. But you need to consider their feelings. That should go both ways.

What if your wife said her fantasy was to go to a nude beach, find a guy with a bigger penis than yours and have sex with him? Would you applaud her feeling comfortable enough to share that and say to yourself, "She may want him, but she lurves me, so it's ok"? I am guessing the answer is no. If you came here and posted she said that, I'd tell you she's a b word and to leave her ungrateful butt.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Again, you guys are equating seeing attractive people out in the world to seeking out a nude beach specifically to interact with other women who are naked. Those two situations are different and we can't have an honest discussion about this "fantasy" question if you are going to argue that they are the same.


I understand what you are saying and I acknowledge the difference.


As for the nude beach, it is a fantasy, a fleeting thought that seems like it could be cool or fun. Most fantasy, including the nude beach, rarely seem as appealing when you start getting into the details of making them happen for real. I've talked to my wife about this very thing. My fantasy was that it would be amazing for us to be on the beach, in the sun completely naked together. I would love to see her like that. Seeing other people naked is just another aspect of it all. But, when you start getting into the details of what that would mean, it becomes clear neither of us would like many aspects of it, so it stays in fantasy land. And guess what, neither of us got pissed at the other for having a fantasy.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Believe it or not, this kind of thing is helpful to me. I'm struggling with something and this is further proof that I am correct in my assumptions. So while I realize I am passionate about this, I'm not mad about it. Not a single truth coming out in this thread is surprising to me. I'm disappointed I was correct, that makes me really sad, but I would rather know the truth. So, thanks for that.


I'm curious, what are these assumptions that you are finding to be correct?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm curious, what are these assumptions that you are finding to be correct?


That would be a threadjack. Last time we went down that hole the mods deleted the whole thread.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> That would be a threadjack. Last time we went down that hole the mods deleted the whole thread.


Please start another thread, I am genuinely interested.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Please start another thread, I am genuinely interested.


I do not have good luck starting threads, it would be deleted and/or I'd be banned. Let's don't. I actually put it all in the thread that got deleted.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Please start another thread, I am genuinely interested.


People were very cruel. If it didn't hurt my feelings, I'd just suck it up and let it be there til the mods took it down. But I take it too hard. Besides, there's plenty for you to make fun of me about without that. 😉 For one thing, I know nothing about cars.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It is fine and normal to have fantasies. It's good to have a trusting relationship with your spouse. But you need to consider their feelings. That should go both ways.
> 
> What if your wife said her fantasy was to go to a nude beach, find a guy with a bigger penis than yours and have sex with him? Would you applaud her feeling comfortable enough to share that and say to yourself, "She may want him, but she lurves me, so it's ok"? I am guessing the answer is no. If you came here and posted she said that, I'd tell you she's a b word and to leave her ungrateful butt.


I don't read anything into the original post that is equivalent to what you are suggesting. I suspect that the assumptions you mention may also be about reading in more than is there.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> I don't read anything into the original post that is equivalent to what you are suggesting.


Of course not, because you don't think there are any similarities between a man fantasizing about younger women (or just other women) and a woman fantasizing about other men. I disagree. And that's ok, we can disagree.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Of course not, because you don't think there are any similarities between a man fantasizing about younger women (or just other women) and a woman fantasizing about other men. I disagree. And that's ok, we can disagree.


Again you are reading in what is not there. I see both as equal. I see that fantasizing is just that.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Of course not, because you don't think there are any similarities between a man fantasizing about younger women (or just other women) and a woman fantasizing about other men. I disagree. And that's ok, we can disagree.


They are exactly the same, but you are throwing in your own details that weren't there. And again you are taking it to the extreme.

No one said they told their wife their fantasy was to go to a nude beach, spot a hot young thing and screw her in front of his wife. The fantasy can be I want us to go to a nude beach to be naked together in the sun, be around and see other naked people and then go back to our room to make passionate love. Why does it always have to lead to the worst possible outcome?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Again you are reading in what is not there. I see both as equal. I see that fantasizing is just that.


He's not talking about fantasizing about other women though. He's talking about going to a nude beach to be in the real world with naked women. Specifically to see those women. The point is, his fantasy, of being surrounded by naked women, does not involve his wife, and while he's free to have that fantasy, he thinks that she is wrong to be upset by it. That's the point, not that he has the fantasy but that he told her about it and was mad she was hurt.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> No one said they told their wife their fantasy was to go to a nude beach, spot a hot young thing and screw her in front of his wife. The fantasy can be I want us to go to a nude beach to be naked together in the sun, be around and see other naked people and then go back to our room to make passionate love. Why does it always have to lead to the worst possible outcome?


So you need to see other women to get excited, then go back to the room and pretend she is one of them. This is the realistic outcome. No man says, "looking at all those beautiful naked 22 year olds made me love my 50 year old wife more." That's absurd.

Again, none of this is anything I didn't already know. I was right. I'm sad I was right, I wish I weren't. I didn't say he shouldn't want to have leagues of naked young girls begging for him, I just said it was kinda rude to tell his wife about it.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> He's not talking about fantasizing about other women though. He's talking about going to a nude beach to be in the real world with naked women. Specifically to see those women. The point is, his fantasy, of being surrounded by naked women, does not involve his wife, and while he's free to have that fantasy, he thinks that she is wrong to be upset by it. That's the point, not that he has the fantasy but that he told her about it and was mad she was hurt.


He should be sensitive to his wife's feelings. I have given up quite a bit for that reason. Beyond that, it seems you are reading a different post than I read.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you need to see other women to get excited, then go back to the room and pretend she is one of them. This is the realistic outcome. No man says, "looking at all those beautiful naked 22 year olds made me love my 50 year old wife more." That's absurd.
> 
> Again, none of this is anything I didn't already know. I was right. I'm sad I was right, I wish I weren't. I didn't say he shouldn't want to have leagues of naked young girls begging for him, I just said it was kinda rude to tell his wife about it.


Again, you are putting your bias in there.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

JBLH said:


> Anal, anal cream pie, oral cream pie, facial cream pie, doing it more than thrice in one day, going past the 7 standard positions, her taking part in the act without getting a cramp even though I do 99% of the thrusting, etc.
> 
> I must've been the unluckiest man in the world because all the women, ALL of them, I've had sex with were awful in bed. Some nights I've felt like I was f-cking a corpse. And I'm good in the sack (or so I've heard). Orgasm is guaranteed. I put down a good 40 minutes of pipe every time.


You haven't found the right woman. Once you do, you will be amazed at how satisfying sex can be.

However, finding a partner with the exact same level of kinkiness is very difficult. Ideally it's a Goldilocks situation where she does everything you want and you do everything she wants. But much more common is a mismatch where one of you is kinkier.


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## Jeffsmith35 (Apr 8, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> You haven't found the right woman. Once you do, you will be amazed at how satisfying sex can be.
> 
> However, finding a partner with the exact same level of kinkiness is very difficult. Ideally it's a Goldilocks situation where she does everything you want and you do everything she wants. But much more common is a mismatch where one of you is kinkier.


And that can generate dissatisfaction. The example of another woman is something only a tiny percentage of wives would be interested in, but I bet their husbands wouldn't agree to the reverse situation, and that's a tad hypocritical.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Then what is the point? That you should be able to say whatever you want with zero consequences? Can't help but notice you didn't say I was wrong, just that you don't like what I said. Tell me what I said that is incorrect. *Then tell me why she would want to hear your fantasies when they have nothing to do with her.*


I don't want you to feel picked on, but my view is much different.

I think that in a "good and functional" marriage the partners should be able to have difficult conversations with each other. One should be able to "hear" and have empathy for what their partner feels and wants.

The idea that if you hear something you don't like from your spouse, doesn't mean that they dislike you. I also feel that if there is something I can do to make my spouse happier, I should at least consider it and evaluate if it truly harms me or if it is something I can do to make them happier in our marriage. If it crosses one of my personal boundaries, then I will try to figure out someway of giving them a similar experience that I can live with.

Somehow, I have remained married (through ups and downs) for 51 years to a woman I love and who has at times hurt me deeply. Part of that is being able to have those hard and difficult conversations with each other.

Let's look at the specifics of the example. He wants to go with his wife to a topless beach. She has no fantasies.

Perhaps she should think that him going on a great vacation to a special beach in France or Spain, could be a great vacation. Perhaps she would like to work on her tan lines. Perhaps that is far superior to their marriage than having hubby go to a strip club to stare and fantasize over the naked breasts of women who want to take our family money from him. I mean all of the various advertising in the media focused on semi-naked breasts is pretty overwhelming. An enjoyment of men looking at women's breasts is kind of social conditioning.

Perhaps if she doesn't want to go to a topless beach, she and hubby can go to a museum with lots of Greek and Roman statues. Maybe she can say, they can go to a sunny beach where most of the women wear tiny bikinis?

To bluntly answer your question, ".......*Then tell me why she would want to hear your fantasies when they have nothing to do with her.*......" *Because she loves him, likes to make him happy, and knows that if he get's aroused, it will be her, his wife, who gets the fruit of that arousal.*


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> " *Because she loves him, likes to make him happy, and knows that if he get's aroused, it will be her, his wife, who gets the fruit of that arousal.*


I cannot tell you how many times I have heard this. "Let him do what he wants, and eventually he'll come back to you when he's done." So he should go see women he actually finds attractive, etc, and then when he comes home he can turn off all the lights, shut his eyes really tight and use my body while he pretends I am someone else. This is a disgusting and insulting thing. This is me standing back and waiting for whatever crumbs I am thrown. It is horrible that you think I am so low and worthless that I should be satisfied with no more than this in life and marriage. (I realize that everyone fantasizes sometimes during sex, but you're talking about planning for it, openly saying that I'm disgusting and he can't get turned on without other women, so I need to be in the dark waiting so he doesn't have to see me and ruin his boner) Would you demand that a man accept nothing but this? To be used by someone who feels nothing for him and does not consider him enough? Of course not. How cruel.


Young at Heart said:


> Perhaps if she doesn't want to go to a topless beach, she and hubby can go to a museum with lots of Greek and Roman statues. Maybe she can say, they can go to a sunny beach where most of the women wear tiny bikinis?


Bottom line, he wants other women and the wife is supposed to figure out how to get that for him and she has to live with it. I honestly don't see what cruel and hateful reason there is for involving her, for forcing her to watch. Do you honestly think women are happy when men stare at more attractive women and then come at them to slate a desire that is NOT for them? Men on this forum complain all the time about "duty sex." If your husband needs to see other women naked to get excited, women he would rather be with than you, then deigns to return to you for a quick pump and dump, how is that not duty sex? I'd rather he just went with the women he wanted than humiliate me that way, and any man who believes that is what his wife deserves doesn't love her or respect her at ALL.

I would rather be alone than be what someone is forced to settle for. That is the scenario you are describing. But again, thank you for confirming what I knew to be true about marriage.


Young at Heart said:


> She has no fantasies.


She has no fantasies she will share with him. I cannot blame her. Why should she be vulnerable with someone who has rejected her? The cruelty on display here is really horrible.

*All that said, how about this scenario to take care of his desires: * Change the nature of the marriage. Set forth the expectation that the "marriage" will exclude sex. The man goes elsewhere to find sexual fulfilment: nude beaches, strip clubs, sex parties, swinger/swap parties, bars, wherever. They agree that he can do as he likes as long as the wife/child never see it. That way the wife no longer has to humiliate herself by begging for the leavings of other women and the man gets everything he wants: wild and crazy sex with beautiful women and the stability of a family home. It's not sustainable long term, the man will eventually find a young woman who wants to "settle down" and the older woman will step aside. They should hash out money agreements, etc, beforehand, even have the papers drawn up so all they have to do is sign. Wouldn't that fix everything? I would think every man on here would jump at that, it's a perfect set up for a man EXCEPT for taking away his plan B. But hey, porn is better than wives anyway.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Jeffsmith35 said:


> And that can generate dissatisfaction. The example of another woman is something only a tiny percentage of wives would be interested in, but I bet their husbands wouldn't agree to the reverse situation, and that's a tad hypocritical.


It's more than a tad hypocritical. Women are interchangeable but men expect nothing less than to be the only one. It's really sad when you realize this is how it is.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Again, you are putting your bias in there.


Nope. I'm putting the truth in there. There is zero bias.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The only reason you go to semi-nude or nude places is to see naked people, I'm not sure where the disconnect is.


That may be the only reason you would go to a nude place.

Yet it certainly isn’t the only reason, people go to such places. For example my wife and I go to a nude beach. So that we can be readily seen by others, while we’re stark naked in public without getting in trouble for it.

And the first time we did it, my wife enthusiastically stripped off before I did.



TexasMom1216 said:


> much less have her say "Sure! I'll go with you to the nude beach so I can sit there alone and watch you gawk at all the women you prefer to me."


In our experience my wife and I have seen more naked men at nude beaches than naked women. We’ve seen plenty of women, yet it has always been more men which is perfectly fine by us.

Also on the idea that wives wouldn’t want their husband gawking at other naked women. That certainly isn’t true for all wives.

For example my wife actively encourages me to look at other naked women in person. Plus to pay them to take their clothes off, then pose for me. So I can draw pictures of them, and or make paintings of them, or photograph them sans clothing.



TexasMom1216 said:


> Which is just so cruel.


My wife and I don’t find the experience cruel at all.



Jeffsmith35 said:


> And that can generate dissatisfaction. The example of another woman is something only a tiny percentage of wives would be interested in, but I bet their husbands wouldn't agree to the reverse situation, and that's a tad hypocritical.


The reality is there are plenty of husbands who have no problem with their wives enjoying sex with other men. So yes some men are hypocritical about it, yet some other men aren’t.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

FloridaGuy1 said:


> I agree. Sadly it is not however.
> 
> And I think that's because many times one partner hears the fantasies and reads into it more than it really is.
> 
> ...


Just take a trip to the south of France, most of those beaches are topless. Really it's just us in the US that are so prude about body parts. 

But I have a wife who likes looking at other women's tits, knowing hers are much nicer. (They better be nicer with their price tag).


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> And the first time we did it, my wife enthusiastically stripped off before I did.


I'm envious of her self confidence and impressed at the perfection she has been able to maintain. It is not easy to be bikini-model playboy perfect for your entire life. I believe you guys are at least in your 30s, that is very impressive.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

Julie's Husband said:


> I'm surprised at that reaction. Not about the situation, but the level of response and perhaps reading in more than is there. Being able to enjoy the beauty of other women does not imply that the wife is the lesser. Sometimes my wife will point out "that cute woman" and focus my attention where I might not.
> 
> On the other hand, I am not sure how I would react if my wife was obviously enjoying looking at other men. Say a male strip club or at a "muscle beach". She has made appreciative remarks about other men in the past and I might have had a pang of envy, but I am secure in knowing that the admiration is just that and that I receive the same admiration plus emotional involvement.


I think @TexasMom1216 's point is thats where a lot woman's minds will go which is true. Lots of woman find out their husband are watching porn and immediately think that says something about them. Most women vastly underestimate just how simples our man brains are.


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## happyhusband0005 (May 4, 2018)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I understand what you are saying and I acknowledge the difference.
> 
> 
> As for the nude beach, it is a fantasy, a fleeting thought that seems like it could be cool or fun. Most fantasy, including the nude beach, rarely seem as appealing when you start getting into the details of making them happen for real. I've talked to my wife about this very thing. My fantasy was that it would be amazing for us to be on the beach, in the sun completely naked together. I would love to see her like that. Seeing other people naked is just another aspect of it all. But, when you start getting into the details of what that would mean, it becomes clear neither of us would like many aspects of it, so it stays in fantasy land. And guess what, neither of us got pissed at the other for having a fantasy.


The reality of the nude beach thing is the vast majority of what you see you really wish you didn't. At least thats is my experience.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I'm envious of her self confidence and impressed at the perfection she has been able to maintain. It is not easy to be bikini-model playboy perfect for your entire life. I believe you guys are at least in your 30s, that is very impressive.


My luscious wife is 52 and I am 51.

That said, my wife has a small scar on her face, left over from having plastic surgery to repair her after she was nearly killed in our early weeks of dating.

She also has two giant scars down both sides of one of her ankles, from when she was injured at work on one occasion.

Plus she has a scar around her neck, from when she had half of her thyroid removed. Likewise she also has lumpectomy scars on both breasts following having had breast cancer as well.

It’s also worth mentioning that the first time my beautiful wife and I went to a nude beach together, my wife had all of those scars.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> My wife is 52 and I am 51.
> 
> My luscious wife, has a small scar on her face, left over from having plastic surgery to repair her after she was nearly killed in our early weeks of dating.
> 
> ...


Scars are just lines. The import thing is thin, flat stomach, perfect proportions and no rolls.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> So you need to see other women to get excited, then go back to the room and pretend she is one of them. This is the realistic outcome. No man says, "looking at all those beautiful naked 22 year olds made me love my 50 year old wife more." That's absurd.
> 
> Again, none of this is anything I didn't already know. I was right. I'm sad I was right, I wish I weren't. I didn't say he shouldn't want to have leagues of naked young girls begging for him, I just said it was kinda rude to tell his wife about it.


This is hypothetical since I haven't actually done the nude beach thing, but I think you're wrong. I don't go back and think about them. I focus on my wife like everytime we have sex. I base this on the fact that we can watch a steamy sexy movie with a very pretty female lead and a handsome lead male. When we then go have sex I'm thinking of my wife, not that actress. Maybe my wife is thinking of the lead male, but I doubt it. I certainly don't jump to that conclusion. And frankly, if she is fully engaged with me during sex I don't really care.

Maybe you would be thinking about that well hung hunk you saw on the beach while having sex with your husband, but not everyone thinks that way. I'm sorry that is your automatic way of thinking.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Scars are just lines. The import thing is thin, flat stomach, perfect proportions and no rolls.


My wife has some fat and a bit of a belly at 54. She hates it, but I think she is total perfection.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife has some fat and a bit of a belly at 54. She hates it, but I think she is total perfection.


It’s really hard to stay perfect at our age. It takes too long to lose it if it gets out of hand. Good for her for staying thin. It’s not easy for some people.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm sorry that is your automatic way of thinking.


It’s not the way I think. But I’m realistic about how others think.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s not the way I think. But I’m realistic about how others think.


Yet you are the one that came up with it. So it is your way of thinking. You are the ou one that has said it.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Yet you are the one that came up with it. So it is your way of thinking. You are the ou one that has said it.


I am the one who said that is how others think. I have no illusions. It is not how I think. I am attracted to whole people, I am not singularly visual. Men are visual. I can’t find someone attractive if I know they’re an ugly person inside. But I’m a woman and it’s different. It’s not like I love it. It breaks my heart. But I won’t be stupid and believe nonsense because it’s easier to stick my head in the sand.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I cannot tell you how many times I have heard this. "Let him do what he wants, and eventually he'll come back to you when he's done." So he should go see women he actually finds attractive, etc, and then when he comes home he can turn off all the lights, shut his eyes really tight and use my body while he pretends I am someone else. This is a disgusting and insulting thing. This is me standing back and waiting for whatever crumbs I am thrown. It is horrible that you think I am so low and worthless that I should be satisfied with no more than this in life and marriage. (I realize that everyone fantasizes sometimes during sex, but you're talking about planning for it, openly saying that I'm disgusting and he can't get turned on without other women, so I need to be in the dark waiting so he doesn't have to see me and ruin his boner) Would you demand that a man accept nothing but this? To be used by someone who feels nothing for him and does not consider him enough? Of course not. How cruel.
> 
> Bottom line, he wants other women and the wife is supposed to figure out how to get that for him and she has to live with it. I honestly don't see what cruel and hateful reason there is for involving her, for forcing her to watch. Do you honestly think women are happy when men stare at more attractive women and then come at them to slate a desire that is NOT for them? Men on this forum complain all the time about "duty sex." If your husband needs to see other women naked to get excited, women he would rather be with than you, then deigns to return to you for a quick pump and dump, how is that not duty sex? I'd rather he just went with the women he wanted than humiliate me that way, and any man who believes that is what his wife deserves doesn't love her or respect her at ALL.
> 
> ...


Perhaps what she needs to find a man who is not into women. Perhaps someone is trying to change a man's very nature and basic natural desires. Not sure women who do that will end up with a husband they enjoy.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> Perhaps what she needs to find a man who is not into women. Perhaps someone is trying to change a man's very nature and basic natural desires. Not sure women who do that will end up with a husband they enjoy.


So my choice is to be a faceless, interchangeable piece of meat who has to be content with sloppy seconds if he can’t do better (until of course I age) or be alone. Funny, that is what every guy who cheated on me told me. If you don’t accept that men are going to be unfaithful you will be alone. So it’s true that men don’t control themselves sexually, they just do what they want and if women get hurt that’s the price of doing business?

You didn’t answer any of my questions, why is that?

What that means is that my scenario should work perfectly and any man would be happy with it, right?


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Scars are just lines. The import thing is thin, flat stomach, perfect proportions and no rolls.


Nice dismissal of the injury my wife has been through.

That said, although my wife is taller than most women. She like most people, has a wonderfully average figure.

And keeping on topic, my wife and I have been able to share much together sexually, without fear of being shamed by each other for any of our desires.


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## Not (Jun 12, 2017)

I found this thread very interesting. In the past I‘ve had thoughts very similar to TexasMom’s in regards to fantasies but realized it was because I didn’t trust who I was with. It was him in particular. I know I would do much better with someone else. 

So this all has me wondering if this is the core issue in some marriages with fantasies. Maybe she just doesn’t trust that he’s all in with just her and why does she feel that way? Of course some women are just truly insecure but others are not. So what does it mean when a secure woman is bothered so badly by her husbands fantasies? Seems to me there’s probably a lot more going on.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s not the way I think. But I’m realistic about how others think.


It's not the way I think, and I am not alone in that. Do you think you're psychic and can somehow read peoples minds? Since I hope you appreciate you are mistaken in this.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> Nice dismissal of the injury my wife has been through.


Not my intent and I apologize if that is the impression you had. I meant that scars from medical issues would have zero effect on a woman’s body.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> It's not the way I think, and I am not alone in that. Do you think you're psychic and can somehow read peoples minds? Since I hope you appreciate you are mistaken in this.


I feel like as defensive as you all are, I’m on to something. Aren't you also in an open marriage? 

Still no response to my questions though.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I am the one who said that is how others think. I have no illusions. It is not how I think. I am attracted to whole people, I am not singularly visual. Men are visual. I can’t find someone attractive if I know they’re an ugly person inside. But I’m a woman and it’s different. It’s not like I love it. It breaks my heart. But I won’t be stupid and believe nonsense because it’s easier to stick my head in the sand.


How is it you KNOW how others think? It is popping up in your mind and you are the only one saying it. You are breaking your own heart, which I find really sad. No one needs that kind of negativity.

There are superficial men and women that only care about outward appearance, but that is not the majority of men or women IME. Most people do really care about the person. I know I love my wife inside and out. I think she is very sexy, but her best attribute is her natural kindness. There is a long list of other things that make her a beautiful person and her outward appearance is only one of them. I bet most if not all of the men posting in this thread feel exactly the same way.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

TexasMom1216 said:


> If you don’t accept that men are going to be unfaithful you will be alone. So it’s true that men don’t control themselves sexually, they just do what they want and if women get hurt that’s the price of doing business?


That is true of some men. They are encouraged to model the "alpha male" stereotype. But implying that is true of all men is very much mistaken.

I'm an example; an admittedly extreme example. I have never approached a woman. Never. My wife has not been able to have intercourse for over 25 years but I have never at any time even attempted to go elsewhere. I have the gift of multiple orgasms so I don't take this lightly.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> That is true of some men. They are encouraged to model the "alpha male" stereotype. But implying that is true of all men is very much mistaken.
> 
> I'm an example; an admittedly extreme example. I have never approached a woman. Never. My wife has not been able to have intercourse for over 25 years but I have never at any time even attempted to go elsewhere. I have the gift of multiple orgasms so I don't take this lightly.


FWIW, there is nothing “alpha” about infidelity. The “Chads” that the red pills hate aren’t out bagging all the young women. They’re at home with their wives and children. They’re not bullying their wives into sexual submission. And they’re not looking around and being jealous of what they think other men are getting.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> How is it you KNOW how others think? It is popping up in your mind and you are the only one saying it. You are breaking your own heart, which I find really sad. No one needs that kind of negativity.


I’m not the only one saying it. Men on here say it all the time. One poster is telling me infidelity is part of being a man and if I expect a man to be faithful then I don’t want a man who likes women. You said yourself you wanted to go to a nude beach, look at other women and then act out your fantasies with them on your wife. You’re twisting it to make it sound like something deeper because you don’t leave your wife at the end, but it’s the same: women are expected to be satisfied with less, and men are not. Men are the only one and women are one of many. We are saying the exact same thing with different words. The truth is not “negativity.” I have a life of experience that backs this up, as well as all of media and this forum. You seem to be getting upset, and I don’t think there’s a reason for that. After all, you’re the winner here. I’m the one who is losing, so why would you be upset?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not the only one saying it. Men on here say it all the time. One poster is telling me infidelity is part of being a man and if I expect a man to be faithful then I don’t want a man who likes women. You said yourself you wanted to go to a nude beach, look at other women and then act out your fantasies with them on your wife. You’re twisting it to make it sound like something deeper because you don’t leave your wife at the end, but it’s the same: women are expected to be satisfied with less, and men are not. Men are the only one and women are one of many. We are saying the exact same thing with different words. The truth is not “negativity.” I have a life of experience that backs this up, as well as all of media and this forum. You seem to be getting upset, and I don’t think there’s a reason for that. After all, you’re the winner here. I’m the one who is losing, so why would you be upset?


I've never seen someone here say that women should just accept that their husband will cheat in them. Anyone that did would get torn to shreds.

Again you are projecting your thoughts onto me. I do not think about other women when I'm intimate with my wife. I'm in that moment with just the two of us. She is the one and only woman I want to take to bed every night. So please don't insult me by projecting your twisted thoughts and incorrect assumptions on to me.

I'm really not getting upset BTW. I'm actually enjoying the conversation but I'll admit it is frustrating at times.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Not my intent and I apologize if that is the impression you had. I meant that scars from medical issues would have zero effect on a woman’s body.


Doesn't have an effect?!

My wife has trouble getting shoes that fits. As a consequence of her ankle with the scars, being a lot larger than the other. Since it has lots of metal pins and plates permanently inside her leg, following her bones being shattered into small fragments. Then there's the pain that she experiences from time to time with that as well.

Plus her breasts aren't the same after her lumpectomies and cancer treatment, now she is fortunate that she didn't have to have them cut off of her. Yet it has affected the appearance of them in more ways than just having very prominent scars from that experience. With one of them having skin which looks quite different on one of them and with one nipple being not the same either.

Then there's the scar on her face, and her nose not being the same shape as a constant reminder of the terror, the slippery bloody mess and the other people's broken bodies on that night we both almost lost our lives.

But yep, having a neck that looks like someone tried to cut her throat because well that's what they had to do, not forgetting they took out part of her insides also has no effect either.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> Doesn't have an effect?!
> 
> My wife has trouble getting shoes that fits. As a consequence of her ankle with the scars, being a lot larger than the other. Since it has lots of metal pins and plates permanently inside her leg, following her bones being shattered into small fragments. Then there's the pain that she experiences from time to time with that as well.
> 
> ...


I apologize, my wording was horribly clumsy. I should have said, "It would have zero effect on the beauty of a woman's body" or "zero effect on her attractiveness." That was so badly worded, it sounded exactly like you took it, and I sincerely apologize. That was careless of me, and her health is not something to be treated carelessly. Really, I am very sorry. I promise it was stupidity that made me word it that way, not deliberate dismissiveness.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I've never seen someone here say that women should just accept that their husband will cheat in them. Anyone that did would get torn to shreds.
> 
> Again you are projecting your thoughts onto me. I do not think about other women when I'm intimate with my wife. I'm in that moment with just the two of us. She is the one and only woman I want to take to bed every night. So please don't insult me by projecting your twisted thoughts and incorrect assumptions on to me.
> 
> I'm really not getting upset BTW. I'm actually enjoying the conversation but I'll admit it is frustrating at times.


It is impossible to take this further (by that I mean to further explain my viewpoint) without making an even bigger swing away from the original topic. I would have to tell a whole story, it doesn't belong here.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

> Aren't you also in an open marriage?


No I am not, nor have I ever been.

So far I have been sharing a splendidly rich, monogamous sexual relationship, with my wife through 26 years and 2 months.

Likewise I have never cheated on my wife, or any of my other previous sexual partners.

That said I have been cheated on in the past by my ex-wife. Which is why she became my ex-wife, having forfeited her opportunity to be with me as a consequence.



> Still no response to my questions though.


What questions, I have been responding to you?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Personal said:


> No I am not, nor have I ever been.


I apologize, I must have you confused with someone else.


Personal said:


> What questions, I have been responding to you?


Never mind, you did respond and it's enough. I know the answers to my questions.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

AC2021 said:


> Please read the Replies:
> 
> "Don't have anything particularly kinky in mind, maybe anal sex, nudist beach, or her dressing more provocatively, going braless etc for the sheer kick out of it and the attention. "


I can't speak for how others have gone there, yet in my experience with different women, I have always found that just being direct and talking about it honestly works well.

Plus being reticent about what you desire, hardly inspires confidence. I mean if you're afraid to own it directly, without having to play games to bring it up. Then how can you expect, your wife think what you would like to share with her is okay?

That said I will also add if she doesn't want to go there, then afford her the respect she deserves and accept her choices and let it go. Since it is up to her to decide what she wants to do without being coerced.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I’m not the only one saying it. Men on here say it all the time. One poster is telling me infidelity is part of being a man and if I expect a man to be faithful then I don’t want a man who likes women. You said yourself you wanted to go to a nude beach, look at other women and then act out your fantasies with them on your wife. You’re twisting it to make it sound like something deeper because you don’t leave your wife at the end, but it’s the same: women are expected to be satisfied with less, and men are not. Men are the only one and women are one of many. We are saying the exact same thing with different words. The truth is not “negativity.” I have a life of experience that backs this up, as well as all of media and this forum. You seem to be getting upset, and I don’t think there’s a reason for that. After all, you’re the winner here. I’m the one who is losing, so why would you be upset?


People are not naturally monogamous and reigning in instincts is a requirement of modern society.
Men notice women on the street subconsciously and it does not mean then want to be adulterous, it's merely a part of male biology. It requires conscious effort to avoid that. Conscious effort to control biology which women do not have to make while throwing tantrums, PMS horror shows and neurotic rants regarding perceived or imaginary infidelity they see in kindness and gentlemanship. 

That being said expecting infidelity from men is insulting and absurd. Either you're committed to your wife or not.
Perhaps if both men and women took each other's needs seriously (leadership, care, loyalty, sex etc.) this would not have been an issue. Sadly men forget that masculinity means responsibility and women forget than men need sexual energy more than anything else. 

Hence one may argue that perhaps as men need to keep their mouth shut facing emotional outbursts of their wives, then perhaps wearing clear heels in bedroom (a humorous example) and acting slutty is adequate "quid pro quo" on their part. 
It is puzzling that men are willing to alter their behavior and appearance for their wives, yet XXI century women feel like reciprocity of encroachment on bodily autonomy and violation of human rights. Silly how this works.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> It is puzzling that men are willing to alter their behavior and appearance for their wives, yet XXI century women feel like reciprocity of encroachment on bodily autonomy and violation of human rights.


I do not recall such an assertion.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I do not recall such an assertion.


The notion that: "I am not a prostitute and I wont wear that for you" is exactly that. Ask why and you're a "sick man". 

Women control reproduction and access to sex. And use that position selfishly, cynically and in a transactional fashion because they know very well how essential it is for men. Imagine if men did the same with fidelity compromising what women care about most: loyalty. 

The difference is that unwillingness to dress for your man or getting on all fours is a simple denial because there is no benefit attached while no cost incurred (the insurmountable emotional damage of wearing a collar saying "****" in the bedroom aside). Maintaining fidelity is the honorable thing to do which is also reinforced by catastrophic legal consequences otherwise AND requires strength of character. 

That's why women can tell their men to get lost with such ease (when asked about fantasy XYZ) and men can't expect anything except for mediocrity as baseline. Well unless you're a shredded millionaire who can exploit the transactional aspect of the limits of bodily autonomy and dignity.

Hypocrisy is astounding but this is the world we live in. Nevertheless any talk of oppression and inequality on relationship level (and every other at this point in time) is absurd as explained above.


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

AC2021 said:


> People are not naturally monogamous and reigning in instincts is a requirement of modern society.
> Men notice women on the street subconsciously and it does not mean then want to be adulterous, it's merely a part of male biology. It requires conscious effort to avoid that. Conscious effort to control biology which women do not have to make while throwing tantrums, PMS horror shows and neurotic rants regarding perceived or imaginary infidelity they see in kindness and gentlemanship.
> 
> That being said expecting infidelity from men is insulting and absurd. Either you're committed to your wife or not.
> ...





AC2021 said:


> The notion that: "I am not a prostitute and I wont wear that for you" is exactly that. Ask why and you're a "sick man".
> 
> Women control reproduction and access to sex. And use that position selfishly, cynically and in a transactional fashion because they know very well how essential it is for men. Imagine if men did the same with fidelity compromising what women care about most: loyalty.
> 
> ...


Given your attitude, it isn't the least bit surprising that your wife isn't willing to do what you desire.

That said, good luck trying to push that excrement up the hill.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> This might seem straightforward but while in marriage one does not want to risk upsetting the spouse even though it's the truth is what is causing the upset. Out of love, affection, weakness and respect.
> 
> That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?


I face the same challenge. We have very good marriage, we love each other very much, we are passionate and romantic. We communicate very well. But I have troubles expressing my kinks and fantasies to my wife. I cannot even explain why. She never makes fun of me or puts me down but I just cannot find comfortable way to discuss kinks and fantasies with her. and when I asked her about her fantasies she said she does not have any.


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## Numb26 (Sep 11, 2019)

romantic_dreamer said:


> and when I asked her about her fantasies she said she does not have any.


To me, this is a huge red flag with any person.


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## romantic_dreamer (Jun 15, 2021)

Numb26 said:


> To me, this is a huge red flag with any person.


Why is this a red flag?


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

I think with some couples fantasy discussions are often best left unsaid. Some couples embrace them while others it leads to strife. Just look how my "topless beach" idea stirred emotions. Some have spouses who enjoy the conversation while others do not and you really can't do anything about it if they don't.

Maybe if the person with the more kinkier fantasy tones it down a bit, it might help but then its no longer really a fantasy I suppose?

Remember Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin where Linus says. "Three things you don't talk about with others...politics, religion and the Great Pumpkin". Maybe that gets replaced with spousal fantasies?


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

In my opinion, fantasy is like a dream you can control. Just like it’s difficult to explain and describe what you dreamt of, it can be similarly challenging to describe your fantasy to your partner.

I don’t know about others, but my fantasies are very detailed. Everything is perfect - time, place, what I’m wearing, how I’m feeling, what I smell of, what I say and do and what the other person says and does. Surprisingly, very rarely it’s about what the other person looks like. The main turn on for me is the interaction.

But what good is it going to do if I tell my spouse about it, if I know for a fact they won’t be able to recreate it with me in real life? For example, I sometimes fantasise about sleeping with a woman. No matter how hard my husband will try, he won’t grow a vagina and a pair of tits 😉I also know that threesome is out of question, so basically I would t gain anything from sharing with him that.

However, kinks can be easier to incorporate in your sex life. For example, oral and wearing lingerie are a big part of my ‘lesbian’ fantasy, so I could incorporate those details into our sex life without making my husband insecure about not fulfilling my fantasy to the T.

What am trying to say is that sometimes being 100% open about your fantasies knowing that your partner would feel uncomfortable with them is pointless. I’m sure TexasMum’s partner wouldn’t offer going to a nudist beach, as it’s obviously not her cup of tea. But some women wouldn’t mind.

And many fantasies are so appealing because we can control them in every aspect, which is nearly impossible in real life.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> The notion that: "I am not a prostitute and I wont wear that for you" is exactly that. Ask why and you're a "sick man".
> 
> Women control reproduction and access to sex. And use that position selfishly, cynically and in a transactional fashion because they know very well how essential it is for men. Imagine if men did the same with fidelity compromising what women care about most: loyalty.
> 
> ...


Well, no. It’s not that. Your whole angry-at-women essay here has nothing to do with men altering their appearance. I never said a word about wearing lingerie, but demanding a woman get on all fours and beg or wear a collar so you can yank her around as a reasonable expectation of marriage gives away your whole perspective on women. There is in fact a cost to women when your demand is to humiliate and demean them, and you know it. Not wanting to be abused and dehumanized in the bedroom is mediocrity? When you clearly have no interest in the woman’s comfort or pleasure but only use your “wife” as a faceless masturbatory aid, expecting gratitude from her is beyond absurd.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> *People are not naturally monogamous *and reigning in instincts is a requirement of modern society.
> Men notice women on the street subconsciously and it does not mean then want to be adulterous, it's merely a part of male biology. It requires conscious effort to avoid that. Conscious effort to control biology which women do not have to make while throwing tantrums, PMS horror shows and neurotic rants regarding perceived or imaginary infidelity they see in kindness and gentlemanship.
> 
> That being said expecting infidelity from men is insulting and absurd. Either you're committed to your wife or not.
> ...


And there it is. Men shouldn’t have to be monogamous. Which is what I’ve said. And I offered that perhaps once a woman has aged or if she gains weight and struggles to lose it, the man should simply go outside the marriage for sex and no longer be in a sexual relationship with his wife. It is humiliating to beg for another woman’s leavings, and telling that you believe that is what women should be expected to do, while they are of course required to remain faithful because in your view of “biology” women are “naturally” monogamous. It all boils down to this: if you see women as a lesser life form, a subcreature as you clearly describe here, then of course you see them as interchangeable. You’re welcome to your viewpoint. There are plenty of women who will allow themselves to be used, humiliated and tossed aside in exchange for financial support; you will have no problem finding one. Just don’t be silly enough to expect love or respect from her. You get what you give. If you treat her like little more than an animal, you’ll get tantrums and rages like an animal. Not all women do that.


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## umbluu (Jan 24, 2020)

---But what good is it going to do if I tell my spouse about it, if I know for a fact they won’t be able to recreate it with me in real life? 

a) the fact that my wife is sharing her fantasies is erotic to me
b) the content of the fantasy may be appealing and arousing to me even if we are not going to try that fantasy in real life


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So I like lingerie and such and I’d like it if my wife wore it for me because I think it’s a bit more exciting than just naked, especially since she walks around the house naked in the morning all the time, brushes her teeth naked, etc…

I read a story that you don’t want to become comfortable to the point where you’re going to the bathroom with the door open. She doesn’t do this but that’s it.

So I like it and I can’t explain why.

Anyway… she’s not into it. If I ask sometimes she’ll put on a piece for me and I leave it on!

So like anything with sex now if I want her to do something I just tell her exactly. In her case with lingerie all the pieces she has out in drawers where she can grab something are ones I like and apparently she doesn’t mind them as she hasn’t thrown them out or stashed them in a closet.

The odd thing is the last time I asked her to pick something hot and wear it she ended up having what seemed like a super strong orgasm in less than 2 minutes.

I think for her it’s just the matter of she’s not in the headspace at all to do something like that spontaneously. She’s not going to be sitting there working and go, “I should put on that Honey Birdette tonight.” That is “I’ll take things that will never happen for $500 Alex” level of not happening.

However if I really want to see her do it I can get her to do it but I reserve it for emergencies only.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

There’s a huge difference between a pretty nightgown and a dog collar. Equating them is insane.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s a huge difference between a pretty nightgown and a dog collar. Equating them is insane.


Not interested in any of that stuff.

I do like baby dolls and pieces like that. She will occasionally take one on vacations without me prompting her. I got her one that is maybe slightly too short for her (oops) but she will electively take that one on occasion.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

ccpowerslave said:


> Not interested in any of that stuff.
> 
> I do like baby dolls and pieces like that. She will occasionally take one on vacations without me prompting her. I got her one that is maybe slightly too short for her (oops) but she will electively take that one on occasion.


It’s romantic the way you present it. When it’s presented as a demand or a quid pro quo (I pay the bills, you’d better act like I tell you) it becomes more like prostitution. All this started when a poster said men don’t ever dress up; first I don’t think that’s true and second I bet they would if they were asked.


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## Wifey93 (9 mo ago)

umbluu said:


> ---But what good is it going to do if I tell my spouse about it, if I know for a fact they won’t be able to recreate it with me in real life?
> 
> a) the fact that my wife is sharing her fantasies is erotic to me
> b) the content of the fantasy may be appealing and arousing to me even if we are not going to try that fantasy in real life


In a ideal world, yes. However, it can also backfire with some people, including my husband.
Some people find such knowledge too much to handle.




TexasMom1216 said:


> There’s a huge difference between a pretty nightgown and a dog collar. Equating them is insane.


Hmm I’d argue that - both items can be worn, just like a a cowboy hat or a maid’s outfit. Just because you find dog collar more outrageous than a nightgown, doesn’t mean it’s universally recognised as such.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Wifey93 said:


> Hmm I’d argue that - both items can be worn, just like a a cowboy hat or a maid’s outfit. Just because you find dog collar more outrageous than a nightgown, doesn’t mean it’s universally recognised as such.


That’s a fair point. I think a lot of it also depends on the presentation and whether or not it’s mutual. Demanding that a woman act in ways that make her uncomfortable or afraid is different than playing sexy dress up.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It’s romantic the way you present it. When it’s presented as a demand or a quid pro quo (I pay the bills, you’d better act like I tell you) it becomes more like prostitution. All this started when a poster said men don’t ever dress up; first I don’t think that’s true and second I bet they would if they were asked.


It’s interesting. So I generally dress terrible on a daily basis and my wife dresses much more nicely. She’ll even wear a blouse during work days when she works at home. She feels uncomfortable if she thinks I am dressed nicer than her.

In the bedroom I have bought stuff for me to wear but her preference seems to be those new kind of boxers that are close fit. She has bought a couple pairs of those for me and I wear them.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Maybe some spouses who claim they have “no fantasies” are concerned that they’ll hurt their spouse’s feelings if they share it. I have fantasies and they’re very unconventional in a way, but my husband likes hearing how my mind works, why I have these fantasies, etc…

I don’t fantasize about other men but in my fantasies, I’m not “in” them, they’re usually scenarios where I’m imagining myself in them but it’s not something I’m wishing for my husband to do or anything. They’re often just fleeting thoughts I have during sex. I don’t think fantasies need to be acted out, but that’s just me. They fail to stay fantasies if you’re bringing them to life, in my opinion.

But, I can see how some fantasies may be harmful to a relationship, but you alone know your partner and what would be okay to share.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And there it is. Men shouldn’t have to be monogamous. Which is what I’ve said. And I offered that perhaps once a woman has aged or if she gains weight and struggles to lose it, the man should simply go outside the marriage for sex and no longer be in a sexual relationship with his wife. It is humiliating to beg for another woman’s leavings, and telling that you believe that is what women should be expected to do, while they are of course required to remain faithful because in your view of “biology” women are “naturally” monogamous. It all boils down to this: if you see women as a lesser life form, a subcreature as you clearly describe here, then of course you see them as interchangeable. You’re welcome to your viewpoint. There are plenty of women who will allow themselves to be used, humiliated and tossed aside in exchange for financial support; you will have no problem finding one. Just don’t be silly enough to expect love or respect from her. You get what you give. If you treat her like little more than an animal, you’ll get tantrums and rages like an animal. Not all women do that.


Bedroom and daily life are two separate worlds. If you think that games in the bedroom and playing into instincts of male/female interaction on more primal level as long as it brings pleasure to both is humiliating then how would you describe how men feel when they are excluded from it altogether. 

I used all fours and collar example as a representation of adventurous behavior not to imply subordinate relationship. 

I am sorry if misogyny is all you understood from this. Men and women are equal except that it's the women who control access to what men crave most and they have no incentive to limit it except for using it as a leverage later. 

Who is in power here?


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Women control reproduction and access to sex. And use that position selfishly, cynically and in a transactional fashion because they know very well how essential it is for men.


My experience is limited to one person, so take that into consideration. I don't find this statement to be true. My wife has never acted out what you are describing here. Like with everything, there are people that I am sure do this, but is it really the vast majority? I find it hard to believe.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Bedroom and daily life are two separate worlds. If you think that games in the bedroom and playing into instincts of male/female interaction on more primal level as long as it brings pleasure to both is humiliating then how would you describe how men feel when they are excluded from it altogether.
> 
> I used all fours and collar example as a representation of adventurous behavior not to imply subordinate relationship.
> 
> ...


I think the real problem is that your concern is with power. IMO, marriage shouldn’t be competitive. It should be cooperative. It should be two people trying to make each other happy instead of a one-way, boss/employee, dom/sub relationship. If only one person matters, no matter which person it is, then the other person will be unhappy. It’s not humiliating if it’s mutual. But when it’s one person saying “I put up with you, do what I say,” that’s demeaning.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> And there it is. Men shouldn’t have to be monogamous.


He said people, you turned that into men. Again, all coming from within you, your thoughts, not what someone else has said. It is you twisting what someone else said with some narrative you seem to want to be true. Your view of the world, and men in particular, is extremely negative and pessimistic. You are so pessimistic that you are assuming you and your husband will retire separately even though I've never heard you mention an actual problem existing in your marriage, other than your husband is a man. Which that alone appears to make him a bad person in your view.


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

Fantasies remind me of dreams, in a way. We have control over our thoughts of course, but like dreams, they’re sometimes fleeting thoughts of “another reality” that your mind is experiencing. If you start dwelling on your fantasies, trying to make them come true, etc…I can see that causing problems in a relationship.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Your view of the world, and men in particular, is extremely negative and pessimistic. You are so pessimistic that you are assuming you and your husband will retire separately even though I've never heard you mention an actual problem existing in your marriage, other than your husband is a man. Which that alone appears to make him a bad person in your view.


My husband isn’t a bad person. I also don’t think all men are bad. I don’t want you to think that. I don’t think it’s pessimistic as much as realistic. I never did an intro thread explaining why I am the way I am and it’s kinda too late now. But it is not what you think it is.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Bedroom and daily life are two separate worlds. If you think that games in the bedroom and playing into instincts of male/female interaction on more primal level as long as it brings pleasure to both is humiliating then how would you describe how men feel when they are excluded from it altogether.
> 
> I used all fours and collar example as a representation of adventurous behavior not to imply subordinate relationship.
> 
> ...


I agree with @TexasMom1216 on this one. Marriage isn't about power. Although I do believe that someone in the family has to take the roll of leader, that leadership role changes hands in different circumstances, depending on who is best suited. It is all about teamwork. Both selflessly support the marriage and the family. That is the attitude we've always had.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

*Deidre* said:


> Fantasies remind me of dreams, in a way. We have control over our thoughts of course, but like dreams, they’re sometimes fleeting thoughts of “another reality” that your mind is experiencing. If you start dwelling on your fantasies, trying to make them come true, etc…I can see that causing problems in a relationship.


Exactly. My wife confessed to me once that she had a dream that involved sex with someone she knew. A parent at school. She feels no sexual attraction to him at all, yet he popped up in a dream. She actually felt guilty. I told her that is silly. There is no evidence that a dreams is an indicator of what you want in real life. It is just your brain wandering around in a way. If some of my dreams were a reality, OMG! LOL


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## *Deidre* (Feb 7, 2016)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Exactly. My wife confessed to me once that she had a dream that involved sex with someone she knew. A parent at school. She feels no sexual attraction to him at all, yet he popped up in a dream. She actually felt guilty. I told her that is silly. There is no evidence that a dreams is an indicator of what you want in real life. It is just your brain wandering around in a way. If some of my dreams were a reality, OMG! LOL


Lol!! So true, right? Maybe that’s the answer for the OP. To avoid any hurt feelings, just say you had a dream last night…and…
☺


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> My husband isn’t a bad person. I also don’t think all men are bad. I don’t want you to think that. I don’t think it’s pessimistic as much as realistic. I never did an intro thread explaining why I am the way I am and it’s kinda too late now. But it is not what you think it is.


If he isn't one of the bad people why are you assuming that your marriage won't even last into retirement for you guys?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> If he isn't one of the bad people why are you assuming that your marriage won't even last into retirement for you guys?


It's kind of a leap to assume that the nature of men makes them "bad." Things are what they are, you can't fight it and it's pointless to try. Better to understand it and deal with the reality than try to twist it into something it's not.


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## Julie's Husband (Jan 3, 2022)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I agree with @TexasMom1216 on this one. Marriage isn't about power. Although I do believe that someone in the family has to take the roll of leader, that leadership role changes hands in different circumstances, depending on who is best suited. It is all about teamwork. Both selflessly support the marriage and the family. That is the attitude we've always had.


Ha! I agree, but my wife comes from a male dominant background and is good with the man being in control. He is the protector, she doesn't need to worry about things. A "mover and a shaker". She sees my egalitarian world view as indecisiveness. 

I got big kudos from her recently for making a financial decision when she was not available. All okay that the bank account screamed in pain.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

TexasMom1216 said:


> I think the real problem is that your concern is with power. IMO, marriage shouldn’t be competitive. It should be cooperative. It should be two people trying to make each other happy instead of a one-way, boss/employee, dom/sub relationship. If only one person matters, no matter which person it is, then the other person will be unhappy. It’s not humiliating if it’s mutual. But when it’s one person saying “I put up with you, do what I say,” that’s demeaning.


I actually agree with what you posted above, but not with much of what you posted previously. 

But first I want to remind you of one of your recent posts. 

(Just as an aside not all men are unfaithful, in terms of violating their wedding vows or in terms of having sex with women who are not their wives. Also, I prefer to offer advice to the OP and others, to the extent that I have experience that may help them.

I hope you can realize that sharing a fantasy with a partner can be a way of gaining greater intimacy and mutual joy with a partner. In saving my sex starved marriage the Sex Therapist did things to push us to sharing fantasies from Yes/No/Maybe lists to reading together the pictorial book the Joy of Sex and talking about the illustrations. The nationally known board certified Sex Therapist that helped us, was not trying to turn my wife into a piece of meat, nor encourage me to emotionally cheat on her.

I do have experience with ways of attempting to share fantasies in a way that improves sex in a marriage and have been trying to share that experience to the OP and others.)



TexasMom1216 said:


> So my choice is to be a faceless, interchangeable piece of meat who has to be content with sloppy seconds if he can’t do better (until of course I age) or be alone. Funny, that is what every guy who cheated on me told me. If you don’t accept that men are going to be unfaithful you will be alone. So it’s true that men don’t control themselves sexually, they just do what they want and if women get hurt that’s the price of doing business?
> 
> You didn’t answer any of my questions, why is that?
> 
> What that means is that my scenario should work perfectly and any man would be happy with it, right?


Again, the reason for this particular post is look at some of the comments from the perspective of power control by one spouse when the other opens up in regards to their sexual fantasies. I expect that we will agree to disagree on human nature, how to improve the sex lives of a married couple.

And speaking of power and control, I would like to quote a recent portion of Dan Savage's column about a women trying to control her husband and what he fantasizes about and looks at.



> Giving up porn is a price of admission some are willing to pay. A person with an otherwise healthy relationship to porn—someone who, like most people, can enjoy porn in moderation, someone who can use porn without neglecting their partner sexually and/or being inconsiderate about their partner’s feelings—sometimes falls in love with a person who, for whatever reason, can’t stand the idea of their partner watching porn. Some people have sensitivities, others have insecurities; some on the Left have political objections, some on the Right have religious objections. Giving up porn is not something I would ever agree to, but a reasonable person might agree to stop watching porn (or pretend they’ve stopped watching porn) for someone they love.
> 
> *But if the person who insisted their partner stop watching porn later defines absolutely everything as porn—porn itself, non-pornographic photos, good-looking people walking down the street, memes shared by friends—then it was never about the porn. It wasn’t about their insecurities or their political objections or their precious religious beliefs. It was about control. *And the worst thing about controlling people is that they’re never satisfied. *No matter how much control a romantic partner gives up, it’s never enough. A controlling person’s demands escalate slowly at the start of a new relationship*, WATCHER, when it’s still relatively easy for someone to end things. But once the relationship is harder to exit—once leases have been signed, marriages have been performed, children have been born—the controlling person’s demands not only escalate rapidly, they also tend to become more arbitrary and irrational. (No memes? Really?)
> 
> ...


I hope that the OP and his wife can actually talk about sexual fantasies. With luck they can even incorporate some into their sex life, and others into role playing and leave those that involve infidelity or things that cross personal boundaries in the realm of fantasies that are never tried.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Personal said:


> Given your attitude, it isn't the least bit surprising that your wife isn't willing to do what you desire.
> 
> That said, good luck trying to push that excrement up the hill.


Given the lack of substance in your reply you cannot make that assertion. 

Facts and logic do not go down well with emotions.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

Young at Heart said:


> I actually agree with what you posted above, but not with much of what you posted previously.
> 
> But first I want to remind you of one of your recent posts.
> 
> ...


I reject the idea that asking for fidelity is controlling. (Interesting that these notions always come from bitter, angry men who want to punish women) It’s an agreement made before marriage as part of the marriage. I also disagree that being hurt to learn your husbands fantasy is to be with any other woman than you makes you controlling. I do think it’s controlling to say that not only must the wife listen to and accept that her husband doesn’t want her but she must be happy about it and “participate” by watching him with other women. There is no “joy” for a woman in being tossed aside and used as meat. And completely humiliating her by forcing her to “watch” is reducing her to a faceless, interchangeable nothing who deserves no consideration in marriage. If a man wants to go through his life wishing he wasn’t married and not telling his wife, that’s not a healthy choice for him. But the solution is divorce, not forcing the woman to step aside and accept the leftovers from women he actually wants. 

I maintain that my solution is the correct one. Open the marriage so the man can get his fantasy and if the woman cannot live with being a last sexual resort simply end the sexual part of the marriage. The man gets everything he wants, an exciting, varied sex life and the stability of marriage until he is ready to move on. There is nothing in that arrangement for the man to object to, that marriage is “perfect” in that it is all about the man. The only thing lacking for him is that he isn’t controlling his wife’s sexuality by forcing her to beg for another woman’s leavings. She is able to maintain her dignity. If that is unacceptable then clearly all the man ever wanted was to humiliate her, but I’m told that isn’t what men want.

The OP is complaining that he told his wife he wanted to go to a nude beach to gawk at other women and wanted her to have to go and watch him do that. The fantasy may or may not have extended to her watching him have sex with those women, he stopped when she was upset that he wanted to force her to watch him lust after other women. He wanted to know why she would react that way. I told him why I thought someone would react that way. If he wants an open marriage (one way, presumably) then just ask for that. Don’t try to trick her into it with fantasy talk.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

Julie's Husband said:


> Ha! I agree, but my wife comes from a male dominant background and is good with the man being in control. He is the protector, she doesn't need to worry about things. A "mover and a shaker". She sees my egalitarian world view as indecisiveness.
> 
> I got big kudos from her recently for making a financial decision when she was not available. All okay that the bank account screamed in pain.


Egalitarianism is expected, we're not caveman after all. Nevertheless women (vast majority) expect men to take the lead sometimes, especially in crisis. Men are more likely to take risks women would not which results in decisions made sooner. 
Women seek status more than anything else and it's the decisiveness that typically leads there.
Status means better chances for the offspring.
Hence you never see a woman leave a successful businessman for extremely liberal postdoc in woman's studies but the opposite.
Fact of life.
Nothing wrong with either approach as long as it works in a relationship I suppose.


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## aaarghdub (Jul 15, 2017)

AC2021 said:


> That being said, what are the best ways to explore each others fantasies and desires/kinks etc in the most respectful and harmless way? Often things are not expressed from the fear of ridicule or judgement but in the same time overlap in fantasies would be priceless for the relationship.
> 
> Thoughts?


Finally read thru 215 replies. A couple thoughts:

1) TBH some people just don’t have or have zero interest in discussing fantasies. It’s really no different than fantasizing about a hobby. Great if you’re both into (e.g. golfing some exotic course) but if they have zero desire (to golf) it’s just not there and makes little sense to discuss. The strongest couples see sex as a hobby to enjoy and explore others don’t. Some people just workout periodically and others are obsessed with fitness. The former wouldn’t be interested in “improving” their fitness routine. The best you may get is a disinterested “going along to get along” attitude because they love you.

2) Fantasies can imply the status quo (or partner) isn’t good enough. Some people like their sex life as is and have zero desire to change it. Implying a desire for improvement is downright offensive to an insecure or intimacy avoidant person. 

3) Some people think sex is something done and not discussed. Sex talk is gross and something mature people just don’t do. Or parents don’t do that kinda stuff. I would argue at this point your partner sees sex as just a “take it or leave” physical act or means to pregnancy. Usually the shaming is strongest here.

I think it would be interesting to turn the fantasy tables around and use the same arguments but for non-sexual fantasies. 

“Hey babe, since we’re on vacation I’ve had this fantasy about buying and fixing up one of these cute beach front bungalows.”

“Ummm… what? Honestly, I don’t really fantasize about moving out of our house. There’s nothing wrong with it. Its served us well. Seriously, you want me to get all dressed up and dirty and do stuff I’m not comfortable with like plumbing. You watch too much HGTV.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> The OP is complaining that he told his wife he wanted to go to a nude beach to gawk at other women and wanted her to have to go and watch him do that. The fantasy may or may not have extended to her watching him have sex with those women, he stopped when she was upset that he wanted to force her to watch him lust after other women. He wanted to know why she would react that way. I told him why I thought someone would react that way. If he wants an open marriage (one way, presumably) then just ask for that. Don’t try to trick her into it with fantasy talk.


You are very biased and bitter about it. I have not implied infidelity and in fact it's the opposite and my wife is a gorgeous woman who turns heads. Nudity on a secluded beach is liberating and if others are present they would be the ones looking at her. Try to understand different angles. 
And to give you insight into her jealousy she would change news channel if there are only attractive women in the studio. How do you address that?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> You are very biased and bitter about it. I have not implied infidelity and in fact it's the opposite and my wife is a gorgeous woman who turns heads. Nudity on a secluded beach is liberating and if others are present they would be the ones looking at her. Try to understand different angles.
> And to give you insight into her jealousy she would change news channel if there are only attractive women in the studio. How do you address that?


It’s amazing how many former supermodel kazillionaire sex ninjas married to other former supermodels there are on the internet.

Perhaps the fact that your fantasy is other women and she knows she isn’t who you would choose is why she’s so insecure. Telling her your ultimate fantasy is a group of naked women who aren’t her isn’t exactly something that inspires self confidence. Maybe making her scared you’re going to leave her for a younger woman if she doesn’t toe the line and always stay the same as when you met wasn’t as brilliant an idea as the red pill internet experts like Glover told you.

Look, you are who you are. You have every right to whatever fantasy you want. What you don’t have the right to do is dictate how she reacts to it. That’s the real issue here, isn’t it? You wanted her to enthusiastically agree to sit and watch. She didn’t. She can’t help how she feels any more than you can help how you feel.

Pretty rich you call me “bitter” considering the terrible things you said about women using sex as a weapon. I’m just explaining how someone might feel and you accuse all women of being selfish, manipulative children with no control over our emotions who throw tantrums like a child because you think all women behave that way. I wonder if your wife really acts like that or if you’re embellishing to make yourself the victim of a horrible woman.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kind of a leap to assume that the nature of men makes them "bad." Things are what they are, you can't fight it and it's pointless to try. Better to understand it and deal with the reality than try to twist it into something it's not.


I'm really not sure what you are saying here. Why are you so sure your marriage is doomed and won't last into retirement?


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

I have not been following all 11 pages of this thread so forgive me if I am a bit out of context but I do want to throw in a little reality check in here in regards to nudist beaches, camps etc. 

First off my own disclaimer - I would rather stick sharp objects in my eyes than run around naked around a bunch of other naked people. I'm all for 3-somes and 4-somes and group sex etc if that is what consenting adults want to do, but to be naked just to be naked - I'll pass. I only do two things naked - shower and have sex and if I could find a way to shower effectively clothed, I would. 

OK so with that out of the way, let's talk about nude beaches a bit. Being intrigued about going to a nude beach often has NOTHING with wanting to "gawk" at other women as @TexasMom1216 has assumed. Most of the people there are not going to be any better looking naked than what you would see shopping at Walmart or browsing the local farmer's market or hanging out at the mall on a Saturday afternoon. It's not really about sexual titilation or checking out other women (or dudes for that matter). 

The people that are into that are about the freedom and acceptance of their own skin and to be around other people also into the freedom and acceptance of their own skin whether they are skinny, fat, short, tall, beautiful or hideous. 

At the end of the day it is just a cross section of humanity that on average is probably no better or no worse looking than the random people you would see in the aisles of the grocery store at 6 o'clock in the evening. 

So fantasizing about being in that environment does not mean that one is necessarily wanting to check out or hook up with other people and it is erroneous to assume that that is someone's motive. A lot of people in those environments are not motivated by getting with other people but rather to be in that open and accepting environment. 

Now that being said, can there be swingers and polyamorous and people in open marriages at those venues? Yeah sure, they are also at your grocery store, your local walmart, your kid's school, your church etc etc Again it is a cross section of humanity and wherever you find people, you will find people that are in nontraditional lifestyles. 

But it is erroneous to assume that just because someone wants to check out that kind of environment, that they necessarily want to check out and hook up with other people. Many of those venues have strict rules against sexual contact in public view and those rules are often enforced more strictly than a conventional public beach.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I'm really not sure what you are saying here. Why are you so sure your marriage is doomed and won't last into retirement?


What I’m saying is that we are what we are, and you can’t change the nature of humanity by wishing. I can’t get younger. I’m struggling to lose weight and it’s taking forever, and I don’t have the option to go back in time and undo my mistake and never gain it. It simply is what it is. Better to deal with reality, life is not a Disney movie. Luck favors the prepared.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> My husband isn’t a bad person. I also don’t think all men are bad. I don’t want you to think that. I don’t think it’s pessimistic as much as realistic. I never did an intro thread explaining why I am the way I am and it’s kinda too late now. But it is not what you think it is.





TexasMom1216 said:


> It's kind of a leap to assume that the nature of men makes them "bad." Things are what they are, you can't fight it and it's pointless to try. Better to understand it and deal with the reality than try to twist it into something it's not.


I get where you are coming from as I too tend to think in terms of realism and try not to view the world through rose tinted glasses. 

The danger there is when we start to assume people will behave in a particular way just because that behavior does occur in the real world. When we assume someone will behave in some negative way, we tend to start treating them as if they already have or will shortly. 

When we do that and we start to treat them as if they have or as if they will, then that makes us the asshole for we are now treating them in a negative manner when they have done nothing to deserve it. 

Not only does that make us the asshole, but it can drive them to actually do the negative behavior and turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy. 

It's one thing to recognize that a certain number of men in the world will eventually leave their wives for younger women and realize that it may be a possibility. 

But if you start treating your H like he is an asshole and a cheater and someone that leaves his wife and family when he has never done such a thing, then you are the asshole. And if you are behaving negatively and prejudicially towards him, that actually increases the likelihood of problems in your marriage and it's actually on you and not him. 

Most people are kind and decent that do value their spouse and their marriage and do not leave their spouse even though they may be able to get with a younger and better looking person. This applies to both men and women. So while it's one thing to recognize that it does go on in the world, it's a whole other level of problem when you start to assume and start to behave as if it is going to happen.


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> I get where you are coming from as I too tend to think in terms of realism and try not to view the world through rose tinted glasses.
> 
> The danger there is when we start to assume people will behave in a particular way just because that behavior does occur in the real world. When we assume someone will behave in some negative way, we tend to start treating them as if they already have or will shortly.
> 
> ...


H has no idea. I’m probably going overboard in the other direction because I agree with you, he’s not done anything but be nice to me and if I were mean to him I would indeed be the asshole. No one likes assholes.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> The danger there is when we start to assume people will behave in a particular way just because that behavior does occur in the real world. When we assume someone will behave in some negative way, we tend to start treating them as if they already have or will shortly.
> 
> When we do that and we start to treat them as if they have or as if they will, then that makes us the asshole for we are now treating them in a negative manner when they have done nothing to deserve it.
> 
> Not only does that make us the asshole, but it can drive them to actually do the negative behavior and turns into a self-fulfilling prophecy.


I am going to give you an extreme example of this that went horribly wrong. It is an extreme example but it is to highlight what I am talking about. 

Where I live, a number of years ago a young, off-duty sheriff deputy and a buddy or two of his went out on a weekend night to some bar downtown. At the end of the night they were walking back to their car and cut through a dark alley between buildings. 

As they were walking down the alley, a larger group of young men started walking up the alley towards them. As the two groups of young men were approaching each other in the dark the deputy and his buddy(s) were sure this other group of young men were going to jump them even though no one had made any threatening words or gestures. As they came within arm's reach of each other, the deputy or his buddy threw the first (unprovoked) punch and the other group responded to the attack at it was on. 

Out numbered in the dark and getting punched, the deputy drew his off-duty gun and shot and killed one of the other guys. 

There was a big investigation and everyone's story pretty much all lined up that none of them were criminals or gang members or anyone was out looking for trouble. One group of guys were parked in one parking lot at one end of the alley and the other group was parked at the other end and they were all simply walking back to their cars. 

But someone assumed the other was going to attack and they threw the first punch and when it was over one person was dead, one was under investigation and facing charges and everyone's life was impacted and changed forever...... and it was all just from guys walking back to their cars. 

This is what happens when we assume someone is going to do something bad and we act as if they are doing it or are going to do it at any moment.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

TexasMom1216 said:


> H has no idea.


Now you are going to be the first to tell people that their spouses can sense things and no that there is some kind of issue going on under the surface. 

If this were a guy harboring some kind of negative thoughts about his wife, you would be the first one saying that she can sense and would know that something was up, even if he were not overtly mistreating her in any way. 

So if you are so sure that he is going to leave you for some younger, skinnier chick, do you really think that he is that clueless that something is going on? 

Can you really harbor this much resentment and ire towards men and he thinks life is all hunky dory there in Texas?


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## TexasMom1216 (Nov 3, 2021)

oldshirt said:


> If this were a guy harboring some kind of negative thoughts about his wife, you would be the first one saying that she can sense and would know that something was up,
> 
> Can you really harbor this much resentment and ire towards men and he thinks life is all hunky dory there in Texas?


You’re correct, I do say that. I suppose it’s possible that he could be aware that something isn’t right. 

I don’t actually harbor resentment and ire toward men. The narrative here is that I do, but that has no bearing on my actual real life. Not being a red pill enthusiast or a submissive doesn’t mean I hate all men. As one of my favorites so eloquently put it, I’m not a man-hater, I’m a jerk-hater. That doesn’t fit the narrative about me, but it’s no less true because of that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Please folks, no more threadjacking


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

TexasMom1216 said:


> Perhaps the fact that your fantasy is other women and she knows she isn’t who you would choose is why she’s so insecure. Telling her your ultimate fantasy is a group of naked women who aren’t her isn’t exactly something that inspires self confidence. Maybe making her scared you’re going to leave her for a younger woman if she doesn’t toe the line and always stay the same as when you met wasn’t as brilliant an idea as the red pill internet experts like Glover told you.


Fair enough. At least when it comes to that idea, I can understand that insecurity and anxiety play a role. But this is not a hill I will be willing to die on. I am also talking about sex in the backyard pool (essentially secluded), going braless while on vacation or anal sex. These are not extravagant requests and harbingers of infidelity. It's refused to even discuss it and unwillingness to experiment which I find disappointing. And this is a woman who would bang naked in a hot tub in Caribbeans and in a car parked in the mall parking lot 10 years ago..



TexasMom1216 said:


> Pretty rich you call me “bitter” considering the terrible things you said about women using sex as a weapon. I’m just explaining how someone might feel and you accuse all women of being selfish, manipulative children with no control over our emotions who throw tantrums like a child because you think all women behave that way. I wonder if your wife really acts like that or if you’re embellishing to make yourself the victim of a horrible woman.


I apologize for the expression. Nevertheless everything I said is true no matter how much emotional validity women try to cover it up with. Cognitive dissonance is omnipresent when it comes to that. Seeking status and leveraging unique assets at disposal including sex is not a theory. It's a fact and biology. 
In addition, working 60h a week, preparing every breakfast, packing every lunch for kids and her, doing every grocery shopping and making almost twice as much I feel like being dismissive, uncaring or cynical about intimacy on her part is not right. But hey. We have equity.


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

AC2021 said:


> Fair enough. At least when it comes to that idea, I can understand that insecurity and anxiety play a role. But this is not a hill I will be willing to die on. I am also talking about sex in the backyard pool (essentially secluded), going braless while on vacation or anal sex. These are not extravagant requests and harbingers of infidelity. It's refused to even discuss it and unwillingness to experiment which I find disappointing. And this is a woman who would bang naked in a hot tub in Caribbeans and in a car parked in the mall parking lot 10 years ago..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have any idea what trigger her change from hot tub and mall sex, to not even wanting to discuss it? 

Also, didn't you have an idea to suggest her becoming a "hot wife" as a way to deal with her jealous outbursts? What ever happened with that? I'm assuming you rightly chose not to broach that topic with her.


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## AC2021 (Aug 9, 2021)

BigDaddyNY said:


> Do you have any idea what trigger her change from hot tub and mall sex, to not even wanting to discuss it?
> 
> Also, didn't you have an idea to suggest her becoming a "hot wife" as a way to deal with her jealous outbursts? What ever happened with that? I'm assuming you rightly chose not to broach that topic with her.


No never spoke to that ridiculous idea with her. I was dissuaded by some sage voices here since that would probably would not help with jealousy.

What changed? Kids? Age? Same job and similar stress but disproportionate amount anxiety about it maybe.
Also 10 years ago I had an abs and now not as much anymore although in decent shape.
..


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## hmaceachran (Nov 2, 2019)

Marriage is where fantasies and desire go to die. LOL!


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## FloridaGuy1 (Nov 4, 2019)

hmaceachran said:


> Marriage is where fantasies and desire go to die. LOL!


Yup...


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

hmaceachran said:


> Marriage is where fantasies and desire go to die. LOL!


That’s the trope, but doesn’t have to be the reality.

Some fantasies certainly don’t survive marriage, and there are some that shouldn’t. 
If your fantasy is to have wild three-ways, you should’ve taken care of that one before you got married because there’s a good chance your spouse won’t be in to that. Nor should they be.

But there are plenty of fantasies that are perfectly compatible with marriage, just depends on your sexual dynamic with your spouse.

As for desire, I assure you there are plenty of couples whose desire for each other remains strong decades into marriage.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

DudeInProgress said:


> As for desire, I assure you there are plenty of couples whose desire for each other remains strong decades into marriage.


Raising my hand


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## Personal (Jan 16, 2014)

hmaceachran said:


> Marriage is where fantasies and desire go to die. LOL!





FloridaGuy1 said:


> Yup...


If you believe that from experience, you've been doing it wrong.


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