# Let's be honest...will sex ever be what you want without a kinky spouse



## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I've read the books and understand that improvements can be made. But, let's be honest, will you ever get the crazy, playful, kinky (kinky not underground hardcore, big difference IMO) sex life you want if your spouse isn't kinky? Mine seemed to be kinky until we got married, and then she said she never really liked it, she just did it for me. I guess she doesn't feel the need anymore since she has me. 

However, my exes stayed crazy and kinky for many years, but like I said, they were crazy and things didn't last. So, are slight improvements in libido all you can hope for?

I would like to hear stories of similar situations.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

bait and switch.

if it was me and I didn't have children I would walk.

this will haunt you your entire marriage.


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

I have never understood why women do that to the men they say they love and would do anything for.

What really makes me shake my head is when I have heard friends break up with a long term girlfriend because she quits doing things she did or teased she would do in the relationship. Only to get a new boyfriend and turn into a complete total freak. I had a girlfriend like that before I got married. She always teased and teased, then found out she gave some random guy a BJ on a girls camping trip and when I confronted her about it she blamed me for it. WTF?


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> I've read the books and understand that improvements can be made. But, let's be honest, will you ever get the crazy, kinky sex life you want if your spouse isn't kinky?


It is possible, yes. But you have to change the marriage, which means changing the people in the marriage.



husband1987 said:


> Mine seemed to be kinky until we got married, and then she said she never really liked it, she just did it for me. I guess she doesn't feel the need anymore since she has me.


There seem to be three possibilities in your case. First, she is a ruthless, calculating b!tch who only values you for the ways in which you can serve her. Second, she is attracted to you, but has some deep-seeded hangups about sex. Third, she was attracted to you early in your relationship, but has steadily become less attracted to the point of hating the thought of sex with you, and now she is simply rationalizing her repulsion by insisting that it was always that way.

In case number one, you end the gravy train. Stand up for yourself and tell her she can either start pulling her weight or start looking for the next chump.

In case number two, she needs counseling. I think two is probably the least likely scenario because she was sexually available early in your relationship, when she trusted you less.

In case number three, you try to recapture what you had early on. You stop acting like a married man and start acting like you used to. And you lead her back to the point of acting like she used to.

If you have a healthy sexual relationship, then her trust and comfort in you will grow over the years. This means that she will be more willing to try things in the future that she currently puts in the "never" category right now.

However, if your relationship stays unhealthy, the sex will slow to a trickle and eventually dry up completely because she will see it as unnecessary.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Bait and switch indeed.

Try upping your game. Treat her like you're trying to hook up with her for the night. Instead of being _married_, act like you're single and she's your target. Keep her off balance a bit, and be the way you want to be in bed. Talk a little dirty to her.

She probably views herself differently now that she is married. Kinky sex was for teenagers and single women. Now that she got her man, she sees herself as the calm respectable married lady.

If she is religious go take a look at themarriagebed dot com. They promote active healthy sex in a marriage. They kill the notion that somehow it is more Christian to shun wild sex.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Wantsmore said:


> I have never understood why women do that to the men they say they love and would do anything for.
> 
> What really makes me shake my head is when I have heard friends break up with a long term girlfriend because she quits doing things she did or teased she would do in the relationship. Only to get a new boyfriend and turn into a complete total freak. I had a girlfriend like that before I got married. She always teased and teased, then found out she gave some random guy a BJ on a girls camping trip and when I confronted her about it she blamed me for it. WTF?


:iagree:


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## hamati (Dec 6, 2011)

This is one of the reasons my marriage did not work. We were together for a total of 8 yrs, married for 3.5. I'm 38, she's 37. Sex was great when we were dating, oral, anal...you name it. She got extremely excited when I fingered her vagina and even commented how much she loved being touched.

Fast forward a year before marriage, we were fooling around one day in her dad's house and I started touching her. She got extremely tense and grabbed my hand and told me to stop. It was all downhill form there, form that day I could not touch her vagina with my hands. We still had oral and anal started to hurt her.

She started blaming me that I was forcing and abusing her when I wanted to use my hands on her genitals. We barely had oral sex and anal was out of the question. She felt uncomfortable if I wanted to go down on her.

A couple months before the wedding, she tells me she had repressed memories about being molested by a friend of her father while being in a car with her whole familiy. He touched her genitals and threatened her in silence. She was 6 years old. She said she understood if I called of the wedding (I should have). I told her that she could go to therapy and we should continue with our plans and get married.

The therapist only convinced her that there was nothing she can do and that I should respect the no touching genital rules. We got married and I could only touch her genitals with my penis. She has always been multi-orgasmic and had 3 - 5 orgasms in a typical session. Sometimes when she was extremely aroused I rubbed her clit with my fingers and she would come harder, but this was infrequent. Using my hands on her genitals was out of the question during foreplay.

I never got over how she initially blamed me for abusing her, instead of telling me straight up about the abuse. We always got into a fight when the issue of her abuse was brought up. 

Sex started deteriorating further and she held back from having multiple orgasms, when I questioned her about this, she said she liked waiting for me so we could have a simultaneous orgasm (we always had that even if she came many times). She also started rushing me to finish and catch up with her instead of letting herself go and have more than one. We still had anal but just to please me, she made me feel guilty afterwards. Sex was down from 3 - 4 times a week to once a week.

When she stopped birth control to have kids, she seemed more interested in sex, but the no touching rule was still enforced. There was no more oral or anal. I felt unsatisfied and frankly used just for my genes. This led to the demise of the marriage. She was obsessed about having kids.

For the last month, every day I thought of how to break the news to her that we should no longer be together and that she should not get pregnant. I even took steps to prevent her from getting pregnant without her knowing.

Before I could say anything, one day she kicked me out. She said she didn't love me anymore and that I had a secret vasectomy. This was 6 weeks ago. She filed for divorce and is now seeing another guy.

She confessed she was preparing for this for 6 months, she beat me to it.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Enchantment (May 11, 2011)

There's no guarantee about anything in life. There's no guarantee that someone who is 'kinky' (whatever that means to you) will stay that way for life. There's no guarantee that someone who is not 'kinky' will stay that way for life.

We all have within us the potential for growth and development and experimentation, if we allow it. A lot of people don't allow it - apparently your wife did at one time. You have to figure out what changed and why she doesn't want to allow it now.

Sexual Relationships Always Consist of 'Leftovers' | Psychology Today


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## ladybird (Jun 16, 2010)

I don't understand why woman stop doing everything sexual once they get married.. It is like false advertising. It is just messed up.. I am not one of those woman.

As far as the kinky goes, I am the one who brings new ideas to the bedroom, not my husband... It would be nice for him to once in a while, but i am guessing that will never happen. (been married 14 years) 

If you want a kinky sex life and your partner isn't willing then i Would have to say no, sex will never be what I want it to be..


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## Scannerguard (Jan 26, 2010)

Hamatai,

There are some parallels in your story to mine.

I tend to be very pragmatist about this subject now. . .what are the boundaries and moral/legal/religious obligations?

That's it.

There are literally 1000 reasons why with women and men. I stopped coming here listening to the pop psychology. A whole industry has sprung up since 1960 trying to get to the root of the problem (psychology) and I say go ahead and entertain and indulge that industry for awhile, to a certain point. I think there's some obligation to try to figure it out.

After awhile though, cut your losses. I lived somewhere upwards 8 to 10 years in a sexless marriage.

Way too long. I felt like I was proving I loved her (and I did). That was stupid and unhealthy.

"Oh mother.
Tell your children.
Not to dooooo, the things I have done.

Spend Your Life
In Sincere Misery
In the House
Of the Rising Sun."

Don't make my mistake.


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## hamati (Dec 6, 2011)

Scannergard,

I would like to know the similarities between our stories. Now that my marriage is over I find that the issue of her sexual abuse hurt me more than I am willing to admit. 

If it was not for past sexual experiences with women, this would have shattered my self confidence.

I now find hard to believe that she had repressed memories of the abuse. My marriage was not a sexless marriage but was steadily declining. 

There was a stage in our relationship where I questioned her why she sexually started to give me less and less. Recently the interest of having kids made her more active, but she was just looking for my seed. 

I still love her dearly but feel I was just baited with great kinky sex at first and just the means for her to get married and have kids.

I don't know about obligations, just about giving oneself completely to your spouse. Boundaries are important as a form of respect. But doing kinky stuff just to get your way and taking it away is plain wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

PHT Lump has a good pint with solution No,3

husband 1987, you sound exactly like me.

When our sex life was good i was 22/23 and we were boyfriend/girlfriend. I played football and went out a lot to clubs/bars with her and played up (got drunk a bit).

Now we are 28 and married with a daughter (2 1/2) I am a married man and dont go out as much due to being a dad most of all. Our sex is gone. So i have started (only the last 2 to 3 weeks) to act like i did when i was 22.23 even that i believe i am a much better person now and treate her better now.

Im going to go out more and act a bit more younger, than a typical husband/father. go out for drinks with freinds and other girls....see what happens then. trying counselling, has helped a little but not sexually. dont think ill cope with another sexless year next year.

good luck mate.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

brendan said:


> PHT Lump has a good pint with solution No,3
> 
> husband 1987, you sound exactly like me.
> 
> ...


I understand the attraction of having some fun. It seems to early in your twenties to be caught up in this.


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## ozwang (Aug 11, 2011)

I feel a little bit bad for the guys on here saying their wife flicked the switch turning off the sex life after the wedding. I've been married just over a year and things are only getting better in that department (apart from the drop in frequency now that we're expecting).

Have you sat her down and let her know what you're feeling? Or just leave your post on here up on the computer screen next time you go out ;-)


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## Wantsmore (Sep 13, 2011)

Talking to her right now is like talking to an imaginary friend. I have expressed to her that the sex is only a small part of it, the intimacy is gone.

When she had it, the sex that followed was good, never kinky, but good. Now it is what ever, no real touching, just get it over with.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

hamati said:


> Scannergard,
> Now that my marriage is over I find that the issue of her sexual abuse hurt me more than I am willing to admit.


Your story is pretty typical of what I have read. My wife was also abused, and she changed dramatically with the marriage. Non-serious relationships are ok for such women, and for various reasons the women are pretty uninhibited sexually when single. But marriage and then kids - that is a whole different thing for them, and things bubble up and boil over.


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## Sawney Beane (May 1, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> It is possible, yes. But you have to change the marriage, which means changing the people in the marriage.
> 
> 
> In case number three, you try to recapture what you had early on. You stop acting like a married man and start acting like you used to. And you lead her back to the point of acting like she used to.


I've seen people try to do this, with very variable success. The problem a lot of the time when it didn't work is that the wife is no longer the person she was when she was single, and doesn't place the same / any value on the stuff she did when she was single. She might not want you as you are now, but she doesn't want you how you were before you were married either! She doesn't want to be lead back to how she was - she isn't that person any more and has no desire to go back. This often get expressed through the "I've grown up, why can't you?" line.



> If you have a healthy sexual relationship, then her trust and comfort in you will grow over the years. This means that she will be more willing to try things in the future that she currently puts in the "never" category right now.


I honestly don't see it as a trust issue. If you're married and have children, she trusts you to look after the children. If she will trust you with the lives and safety of her and her children, then she things you're reliable enough.



> However, if your relationship stays unhealthy, the sex will slow to a trickle and eventually dry up completely because she will see it as unnecessary.


In a lot of these cases, it is _precisely_ *because* she sees it as "unnecessary". She had to have a sex a lot to establish her value to you. She established her value - you saw her value (married her), ergo, it isn't necessary for her to demonstrate it any more. If she only had sex to demonstrate she was a high-value woman, rather than because it's something that acts as a means of bonding, expressing love or enjoying yourself, of course she sees it as unnecessary. More so if she thinks that once she showed her value, her value would remain no matter what she did afterwards.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Sawney Beane said:


> She might not want you as you are now, but she doesn't want you how you were before you were married either! She doesn't want to be lead back to how she was - she isn't that person any more and has no desire to go back.


That is a possibility. But I don't think it's as common as the wife wanting to recapture the romance and tension present early in the relationship.



Sawney Beane said:


> I honestly don't see it as a trust issue. If you're married and have children, she trusts you to look after the children. If she will trust you with the lives and safety of her and her children, then she things you're reliable enough.


I disagree here. Many wives will trust a dozen people with the lives and safety of her children. But asking them to put on lingerie and swing from the chandeliers is WAY more personal than that. Many women struggle with sexual inhibitions long after they are married with children.



Sawney Beane said:


> In a lot of these cases, it is _precisely_ *because* she sees it as "unnecessary". She had to have a sex a lot to establish her value to you. She established her value - you saw her value (married her), ergo, it isn't necessary for her to demonstrate it any more. If she only had sex to demonstrate she was a high-value woman, rather than because it's something that acts as a means of bonding, expressing love or enjoying yourself, of course she sees it as unnecessary. More so if she thinks that once she showed her value, her value would remain no matter what she did afterwards.


True again. If that's the case, the husband either accepts the status quo, or relates to the wife that her value remains contingent upon sex. Which is obvious to most men. How many men would marry a woman who is beautiful, smart, faithful, perfect in every way, but never wants sex? 99% of men would take a plainer, dumber, nymphomaniac who can't cook.


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## AnaLost (Nov 9, 2011)

True again. If that's the case, the husband either accepts the status quo, or relates to the wife that her value remains contingent upon sex. Which is obvious to most men. How many men would marry a woman who is beautiful, smart, faithful, perfect in every way, but never wants sex? 99% of men would take a plainer, dumber, nymphomaniac who can't cook. [/QUOTE] 

Hmmm.... A woman's value is contingent on her putting out. This attitude is exactly what turns most women OFF. Who wants to give sex to someone who tells you that if you don't put out, you're not of value to me, even though you cook, clean, taxi the kids, and look beautiful for me daily, oh and are career driven too.... Really?

What about the men who quit trying to romance their wives after marriage. I am beginning to see a direct connection between the two. Men do the bait and switch all the time... They buy flowers, make dates, take initiative in things, all while dating. (Meeting her emotional needs).Once the rings on the finger, they stop doing all that... They have kids, whatever, the guy doesn't feel the need to give anymore. But yet throws a fit when she doesn't feel sexual anymore. 

Both parties become lazy about it and then blame the other. Any man who is complaining about his wifes decline in sexual interest in him, really needs to first look at what he is or is not doing for her. And likewise.... If a woman is unhappy about her husbands lack of emotional attention, she should examine what needs of his are not being met. 

Emotionally starved woman = sexually starved man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## romantic_guy (Nov 8, 2011)

We started dating when we were 16 and within a couple of months we were bringing each other to orgasm with our hands. We then started having sex. She was so horny then...wanted it all the time. She got pregnant and we got married at 16 and 17. We had kids right away, I went to college, and the horny girl I married became, well, not so much. One thing was having kids...that is a lot of work!! The other thing was that I rally had no clue how to treat her. The more of a jerk I was, the more she withdrew, which made me more angry...vicious circle. Then there was the "guilt" on her part of premarital sex and getting pregnant. By the way, we never stopped sex, it just was not as often and passionate as I wanted.

Fast forward about 15 years. I started learning her needs and I tried to fulfill them. She started to open up sexually. Then about 10 years ago we met a couple from church who were not shy at all about discussing sexual things. The woman and my wife really connected. It has been a slow process, but today, 39 years later, our sex life is GREAT!! She will try different positions, and places, she will try new toys, etc. In our case anyway, sex can be what I want it to be.


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## anotherguy (Dec 14, 2011)

AnaLost said:


> ...
> Both parties become lazy about it and then blame the other. Any man who is complaining about his wifes decline in sexual interest in him, really needs to first look at what he is or is not doing for her. And likewise.... If a woman is unhappy about her husbands lack of emotional attention, she should examine what needs of his are not being met.
> 
> Emotionally starved woman = sexually starved man!
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


That is exactly correct, IMHO. I believe women are much more inclined to have meaningful, satisfying, enganging, toe-curling sex as the fruit of emotional bonding rather than simply a means for physical satisfaction - though that can be part of it too. Once that happens, once she feels you are personally invested in the relationship and value them as a person - and yes - are willing to court them - the rest is easy. and well, very fun. 

Ana - I think your comment about being lazy is spot on - and its far too easy to get complacent and take it for granted.

The good news is that once you get in the habit of doing the small beneficial things to help strengthen the relationship... and once the value of the relationship becomes self evident to both - it no longer feels like work. It takes time - if you are rebuilding damage it can take months..years? You are not going to get a BJ for taking out the trash or picking up your socks. It is simply far more productive and rewarding to actually work on the relationship than it is to whine and complain about how bad you think it is - eroding the bond with little digs, undermining it by being cavalier and thoughtless... because when you do that - I guarantee you you will soon find yourself to be more correct than you would like.


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

AnaLost said:


> Hmmm.... A woman's value is contingent on her putting out. This attitude is exactly what turns most women OFF. Who wants to give sex to someone who tells you that if you don't put out, you're not of value to me, even though you cook, clean, taxi the kids, and look beautiful for me daily, oh and are career driven too.... Really?


Really. You actually find it surprising that men value sex very highly? I'm shocked by that.

Since you evidently don't know, yes, men place an extremely high value on sex in marriage. If you can cook, that's valuable. But, it's not as valuable as a high libido. I haven't seen many men on these boards despondent because their wife rarely cooks.

Do men value sex more highly than women do? Usually, yes. Would the world work better if both women and men valued the same traits by the same amount? Perhaps. Since they don't, is it silly to object to reality? Absolutely.



AnaLost said:


> What about the men who quit trying to romance their wives after marriage. I am beginning to see a direct connection between the two. Men do the bait and switch all the time... They buy flowers, make dates, take initiative in things, all while dating. (Meeting her emotional needs).Once the rings on the finger, they stop doing all that... They have kids, whatever, the guy doesn't feel the need to give anymore. But yet throws a fit when she doesn't feel sexual anymore.


Men who start acting like married men frequently kill the sexual attraction their wives felt for them. I don't deny that.

But in this case, the OP has been told by his wife that she has no complaints with him. She told him that she used sex to lure him into marriage. And now, because she doesn't value sex in the slightest, she intends to provide sex very seldomly in the marriage. So it's a different case.


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## AnaLost (Nov 9, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> Really. You actually find it surprising that men value sex very highly? I'm shocked by that.
> 
> Since you evidently don't know, yes, men place an extremely high value on sex in marriage. If you can cook, that's valuable. But, it's not as valuable as a high libido. I haven't seen many men on these boards despondent because their wife rarely cooks.
> 
> ...


Actually I fully comprehend that sex is highly vlaued by men... Nowhere did I say I was shocked by that. What shocks me is that some men fail to recognize that the reason their wives don't value it as much, is because the man has failed to meet her emotional needs somewhere along the line. What shocks me is the idea that most men would take a dimwitted nympho over an intelligent, beautiful, loyal, and caring woman. 

The OP did not say his wife told him she used sex to get him to marry her. He said he feels that way. She said she is fine with him... Perhaps she is afraid to be honest with him in that regard. Something is missing for her, even if she doesn't fully understand what it is. If she is a stay at home wife, with no outlet, it is likely that she feels like he's never there, and that he only needs her for sex. If a woman doesn't feel appreciated, her libido drops significantly. Especially if she is told that her value hinges SOLELY on her putting out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

AnaLost said:


> What shocks me is that some men fail to recognize that the reason their wives don't value it as much, is because the man has failed to meet her emotional needs somewhere along the line.


You shouldn't be shocked about this either. Men and women obviously have trouble understanding each other. They think differently, and therefore interpret situations differently. A sexless marriage is frequently a "chicken or the egg" situation. Did the wife withdraw sex first, which made the husband less inclined to romance her? Or did the husband slack off on the romance, which caused the wife to withhold sex? It could be either one. Or, it could be something else. Sex is a topic most people, even most married people, would rather avoid.



AnaLost said:


> What shocks me is the idea that most men would take a dimwitted nympho over an intelligent, beautiful, loyal, and caring woman.


Why? You seem inconsistent here. You understand that men value sex very highly, but are confused as to why they value sex more than cooking? They just do. There is obviously a continuum where a woman with a high libido, but is deficient in every other area probably won't be valued more than an otherwise perfect, but sexless, woman. But when men are evaluating prospective wives, libido is probably the biggest area of concern.



AnaLost said:


> The OP did not say his wife told him she used sex to get him to marry her. He said he feels that way.


No. In the original post in this thread, the OP wrote, "Mine seemed to be kinky until we got married, and then she said she never really liked it, she just did it for me ..." In the OP's other thread, he wrote, "She has said before she thought she would need to have sex more to keep me in the beginning ..."



AnaLost said:


> She said she is fine with him... Perhaps she is afraid to be honest with him in that regard. Something is missing for her, even if she doesn't fully understand what it is.


I think that is likely. And I have advised the OP to improve himself to better attract her.



AnaLost said:


> If a woman doesn't feel appreciated, her libido drops significantly. Especially if she is told that her value hinges SOLELY on her putting out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I agree. Men should appreciate their wives. And most men do. And the OP obviously appreciates his wife. He has said they get along great, apart from sex.

And I have never said the sex is the only determinant of a wife's value. I simply said it is the biggest determinant. To most men, a woman with a low libido is like a car without an engine. It's a critical flaw that can't be overlooked. They just aren't going to be interested. Even if the paint job is awesome. Even if the seats are the most comfortable they've ever sat in. Even if it has 46 cupholders. They would rather take a more modest, less luxurious car with a good engine.

And if the car dealer tricks them by passing off a defective car as having a great engine, well the man who has been duped has every right to be upset that he now is stuck with a defective model. And telling him that the cigarette lighter works flawlessly will do little to ease his anger when he's walking to work.


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## why1234 (Dec 14, 2011)

Okay so this is just from my point of view as a w married to a very very kinky left field husband. Im 23 H 28, married 6 yrs have 2 kids. Our entire marriage H has visually and Emotionally cheated. I would find tons of porn and web cam on our computer and instead of comming to me and saying hey i enjoy rough kinky sex he was on the computer. then he tells me everytime we've had sex he's thought of the computer. So I decied to bring fantasy into reality. I always thought that I was the kninky one suggesting anal, role play & oral. Then H tells me he's into BDSM and wants me to be his slave, which was fine until he started going way into left field with things you see on the worst worst underground videos, just talk to her, if she loves you she may be a little more open to trying things.


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## husband1987 (Dec 13, 2011)

I spoke with my wife about the subject. She broke down and said she doesn't understand what happened and that she would work to figure out the problem. She also said she would do more to be playful and sexy like she use to be. She did say that she is embarrassed now because she use to be in shape and she doesn't like showing me because I'm in very good shape (she said not me). So, maybe there is hope. She seemed sincere. 

Also, maybe I should have used other words besides kinky. Maybe sexy, playful, etc. You know, lingerie, foreplay. I didn't mean whips, and chains and things that could physically damage someone.


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## TallJeff (Nov 1, 2011)

AnaLost said:


> Hmmm.... A woman's value is contingent on her putting out. This attitude is exactly what turns most women OFF. Who wants to give sex to someone who tells you that if you don't put out, you're not of value to me, even though you cook, clean, taxi the kids, and look beautiful for me daily, oh and are career driven too.... Really?


Assuming the guy is doing the things he should (his share around the house, trying to keep romance alive, I think this is a complete fair statement.

I can literally employ to cool, clean, transport the kids, etc. I can't employ people to give me affection (notice I didn't say provide sex).

To men sex is (believe it or not) often about just sex. It's about feedback and affection. They want to know their wife/lover views him as a man. How does a wife do that? By being intimate. 

So yes, a wife who is not or rarely intimate is of lesser value to a man than a wife who shows her appreciation.


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## I Know (Dec 14, 2011)

AnaLost said:


> What shocks me is that some men fail to recognize that the reason their wives don't value it as much, is because the man has failed to meet her emotional needs somewhere along the line. What shocks me is the idea that most men would take a dimwitted nympho over an intelligent, beautiful, loyal, and caring woman. .
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If the intelligent, beautiful, loyal, and caring woman isn't going to have sex with me all that beauty and brains is just a tease and makes it worse. I would much rather have the ugly nympho than the non sexual hottie. Men will divorce wives because of lack of sex. It is really that important. 

If the wife has unresolved issues then that is a separate conversation and does need to be addressed by the couple. But saying that she doesn't put out because he did or didn't do something else is a circular argument that can never be solved. There will always be a well I did that because you did this if you argue like that. you have to work on 1 issue at a time.


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## misticli (Oct 28, 2011)

ladybird said:


> I don't understand why woman stop doing everything sexual once they get married.. It is like false advertising. It is just messed up.. I am not one of those woman.
> 
> As far as the kinky goes, I am the one who brings new ideas to the bedroom, not my husband... It would be nice for him to once in a while, but i am guessing that will never happen. (been married 14 years)
> 
> If you want a kinky sex life and your partner isn't willing then i Would have to say no, sex will never be what I want it to be..


I agree, why do women do this?
Honestly a lot of times it seems to be after they have children as well. Their world then resolves around the children, instead of before where it resolved around the husband. Sorry to say but a lot of times kids ruin marriages, especially when its unplanned.


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## brendan (Jun 1, 2011)

agree with this. my wife is very different now she is a mother (3 years).

since having a child, has put on 20k.g, talks to me like crap, no sex and ill stop there for now. 

andy people will wonder why i dont appreciate her as much or not attracted to her as much


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## HelloooNurse (Apr 12, 2010)

I would say the average joe is not generally all that kinky. But when someone is married and their partner is not exactly right for them, they get all emotionally devastated and etc etc. They withdraw from the partner and all that drama occurs and the sex stops. Then over the years, the "deprived" person's mind goes into overdrive due to the desperation caused by the lack of sex. This desperation makes them basically turn into a sex obsessed person, thinking about every dirty thing under the sun (in desperation and deprivation). They then believe themselves to be more kinky etc than everyone else but its not actually true - they are just more desperate than everyone else due to their circumstances. And I am not using the word "desperate" in an aggressive way, I am using it as a descriptive word there btw.


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## helpwanted (Sep 16, 2012)

will you ever get the crazy, playful, kinky (kinky not underground hardcore, big difference IMO) sex life you want if your spouse isn't kinky?

Nope.

Also you said above that she was in the beginning because of you. Why is she trying to change who she is just to win you over.

My opinion is this. If you have to pretend to be someone that you are not in the first of the relationship then you both will have a very miserable sexually future.

I was a freak in the beginning and still a freak now. I didn't have many sexual partners in my younger years so I was a bit inexperienced however my husband and books taught me well.

My husband loved the fact that I was up for anything. Not the crazy beating and all that crazy bondage stuff. If you're into that great just not my cup of tea. I don't understand why some woman wouldn't want to please their man. 

For me it pleases me to please him. 

If they have never been kinky chances of them trying different things and being experimental are slim to none.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

We have just begun some kinky stuff of late and the majority of our 17 years of marriage was all vanilla. Even when we had frequent sex at te beginning, it didn't stray much away from oral and intercourse, mostly missionary. 

But sometimes you can be shocked by stuff and what my wife and I did on our F weekend away recently certainly filled that. She did something she always swore she woud never do and did it twice - the second time sober. And is not opposed to keeping it in our repitoire.


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## missymrs80 (Aug 5, 2012)

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


AnaLost said:


> True again. If that's the case, the husband either accepts the status quo, or relates to the wife that her value remains contingent upon sex. Which is obvious to most men. How many men would marry a woman who is beautiful, smart, faithful, perfect in every way, but never wants sex? 99% of men would take a plainer, dumber, nymphomaniac who can't cook.


Hmmm.... A woman's value is contingent on her putting out. This attitude is exactly what turns most women OFF. Who wants to give sex to someone who tells you that if you don't put out, you're not of value to me, even though you cook, clean, taxi the kids, and look beautiful for me daily, oh and are career driven too.... Really?

What about the men who quit trying to romance their wives after marriage. I am beginning to see a direct connection between the two. Men do the bait and switch all the time... They buy flowers, make dates, take initiative in things, all while dating. (Meeting her emotional needs).Once the rings on the finger, they stop doing all that... They have kids, whatever, the guy doesn't feel the need to give anymore. But yet throws a fit when she doesn't feel sexual anymore. 

Both parties become lazy about it and then blame the other. Any man who is complaining about his wifes decline in sexual interest in him, really needs to first look at what he is or is not doing for her. And likewise.... If a woman is unhappy about her husbands lack of emotional attention, she should examine what needs of his are not being met. 

Emotionally starved woman = sexually starved man!
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

Enchantment said:


> We all have within us the potential for growth and development and experimentation, if we allow it. A lot of people don't allow it - apparently your wife did at one time. You have to figure out what changed and why she doesn't want to allow it now.


The sexual dynamic with abuse survivors can be very abnormal. Based on what I've read and saw with my ex, you cannot assume the "I love you, and you treat me well, so I want to be with you" situation exists. It may be the opposite - sex is not seen as a loving act so a person wanting it is automatically seen as hurtful and maybe even abusive.

As to why she allowed it then... Women know sex is important and admitting a dislike of sex or an inability to have a normal relationship will make most guys bail out. Moreover, it seems abuse victims can be selfish and think they are owed something for their suffering. Put those together and it's easy to see how she could rationalize faking an interest in sex to "get him".

Also, you have to consider the shame element. She might like sex, but then she feels shame for enjoying something that she sees as hurtful and dirty. Yes, I saw that one myself too.

So why does she not allow it now? Well, you have that selfishness thing mentioned above. Also, I've noticed that the ability to tolerate sex can diminish over time. Just like a person with a disease can take progressively longer to recover from bouts of illness or harsh treatment, she maybe is less able to tolerate sex as the relationship continues.

Then, there is the possibility that she genuinely resents the pressure for sex. This does not have to be overt pressure. Maybe he was just becoming distant, she noticed, and she resents not getting 100% of him without being sexual in return. He noted she called him abusive. I know how this goes - my ex called me abusive just for complaining about bad sex. Her logic was "he knows sex is an issue for me. Making me confront the issue makes me feel bad. It's his (my) fault I feel bad, thus he is abusing me (emotionally)".

To the OP, you made the right call in not having kids with her and are certainly better off without her. But you are not out of the woods yet. You need to aggressively protect yourself during this divorce and get a like-minded attorney. You know she can be demanding and selfish, and her planning her exit for six months is a really bad sign. Best of luck.


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

PHTlump said:


> That is a possibility. But I don't think it's as common as the wife wanting to recapture the romance and tension present early in the relationship.


That may be true with a normal woman. Again, you are talking about a sex abuse survivor here. It seems more likely in this case that the sex was just a means to an end.



PHTlump said:


> I disagree here. Many wives will trust a dozen people with the lives and safety of her children. But asking them to put on lingerie and swing from the chandeliers is WAY more personal than that. Many women struggle with sexual inhibitions long after they are married with children.


Agree.



PHTlump said:


> True again. If that's the case, the husband either accepts the status quo, or relates to the wife that her value remains contingent upon sex. Which is obvious to most men. How many men would marry a woman who is beautiful, smart, faithful, perfect in every way, but never wants sex? 99% of men would take a plainer, dumber, nymphomaniac who can't cook.


This is where it gets tricky. By no means should the OP tolerate the lack of sex; he must communicate to his wife that the lack of sex is killing the marriage. But IMO he needs to focus on the root issue (the CSA damage). In her current state, she probably resents his sex drive and at any rate won't be able to keep up (indeed, her tolerance probably is decreasing over time).


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## DTO (Dec 18, 2011)

AnaLost said:


> What shocks me is the idea that most men would take a dimwitted nympho over an intelligent, beautiful, loyal, and caring woman.


I totally get that, as a man, I have to do my part to keep the fires going in the marriage. And I did my part - futilely.

In reference to the part I quoted above, if I am doing my part and my wife refuses to put out, she is neither loyal nor caring. And if she is neither loyal nor caring, she is not wife material.


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## LearninAsWeGo (Oct 20, 2012)

This is a good question. I go back and forth on this myself.

My close friend, a pretty experienced who has been with triple digits of women, will always say "they're all trainable." However, I basically disagree with him. Some women (and some men) have repressed sexual ideas and comfort zone. I feel like I'm a perv making them do things they don't want to, and I tend to get out of those relationships because it's uncomfortable for them and unsatisfying for me.

It's about comfort and variety in the bedroom for me, but some people are into "stick with what works." You could try buying her a book like 50 shades or introducing her to soft core porn, but who knows if it'll work. What will definitely work is having her talk to older women who understand what men want, but that can open a can of worms if they're single/divorced. You need to be careful what you wish for. GL


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

husband1987 said:


> However, my exes stayed crazy and kinky for many years, but like I said, they were crazy and things didn't last. So, are slight improvements in libido all you can hope for?
> 
> I would like to hear stories of similar situations.


Nothing is set in stone. My wife had an epiphany at forty and we haven't looked back. Never lose hope.


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## Flyguy (Sep 29, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> bait and switch.
> 
> if it was me and I didn't have children I would walk.
> 
> this will haunt you your entire marriage.


I think I'm in agreement here. As much as I talk to my wife and tell her of my wants/needs (as well as trying to get her to tell me hers) nothing has changed and nothing gives me the impression that it will anytime soon.

Sexually speaking, I would do virtually anything to please her and she knows this. The problem is, I've yet to find anything that pleases her because, to me, she doesn't want to be pleased.


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## Flyguy (Sep 29, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> Nothing is set in stone. My wife had an epiphany at forty and we haven't looked back. Never lose hope.


Johnny....I will keep my fingers crossed that this happens to me someday.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

Flyguy said:


> Sexually speaking, I would do virtually anything to please her and she knows this.


That is a big turn off for a lot of women. Why not take the lead and ravish her?


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Ana, 
None of the posters here say: her value is solely based on her sexual behavior. 

As for emotional needs - I agree that many men who end up sexless create a suffocating level of predictability and stability.


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## Woodchuck (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't know what the answer is, My wife has memories of being molested as a child, Had an alchholic father who was never in her life, was a single mom in dire financial straits, and had been horribly abused physically and emotionally by her childs father when we married. 

She had all the earmarks of a sexual disaster waiting to happen and yet, we still had a long and wonderful sex life.....

I think these repressed childhood memories are a bunch of crap.

They are just another flimsy excuse for a cold fish, gold digging female (I won't dignify their status with the title of WOMAN). to latch onto a sugar daddy and then padlock the old vag before the ink is dry on the marriage license............


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## Open up now let it all go (Sep 20, 2012)

Hey, I feel terrible for dudes in a sexless relationship/marriage but don't act like childhood trauma, especially sexual, is bull****. That's really serious stuff that can scar people for life. Some people can process it better and that deserves a medal an sich, but let's not use that rationalize something so horrible. It's a sad world were living in, isn't it?


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