# Should I forgive her? Please, need opinions



## summersoul (Mar 23, 2014)

Hi everyone,

So me and my Ex were together for two and a half years. The last 6 months of our relationship were very difficult and rocky. Now I realize that I did many things wrong: I always came up with past mistakes she made and threw it in her face. I emotionally and verbally abused her a few times, as I felt she is disrespecting me. Told her things like she is a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re. I was just two times and I apologized but afterwards she thought this is how I really think about her and it hurted her self-esteem. I didnt really mean it and said these things out of anger but she never believed that. I disrespected her and argued with her when I was feeling disrespected. But there were many good times also in between. The most time was great. The sex was great and we had really much fun together. I gave her my whole attention and did nice things for her, were always there for her...

The last two months she was distant, what made me clingy and needy (I know that was wrong). I felt that the connection between uns is going down and I wanted to stop that. The last month was the worst: Our relationship was on the edge of a break up. Then she went on vacation and the day before we made up once again and had a good time. We decided to work on our problems when she is back. On vacation she started an affair with another man, didnt tell me about it. At the same time we once again got into a fight and broke up. But I wanted her back and we stayed in contact. It seemed like she also was interested in the relationship. She told me this, while she had the affair.

So to make this short: She started an affair at the most hardest and hopeless time in our relationship. She told me she lost hope that it would work out and went for this other man. But I didnt go for other women at this time. I also felt like the relationship can´t survive and was hopeless but I really loved her and wanted to work on us when she is back. I know I treated her like crap the last two months and made many mistakes but did I deserve to be cheated on? I mean I am feeling like it was my fault and I messed up. When she came back, we were broken up but stayed in contact, then she wanted me back. When I found out about the affair on my own, I wanted to run first. But she is begging and telling me that she felt abused, underappreciated and undervalued, thats why she was more open for other men.

So what do you think, would you forgive cheating under these circumstances? If you really messed up and treated your girl like crap, does she deserve a second chance?

Regards


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## Rookie4 (Nov 26, 2012)

You are responsible for for50% of the pre-affair conditions in the relationship, she is responsible for the other 50%. She is fully and completely responsible for the cheating. Both of these are facts. The decision to forgive and reconcile, or split, is your (and hers) to make. I would advise you to forgive her, but split up, anyway.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

summersoul said:


> So to make this short: She started an affair at the most hardest and hopeless time in our relationship.


And that, right there, is where you're not getting it. 

If, IF, it had read 



> So to make this short; I treated her like sh*t, multiple times.
> 
> As a result of which she cheated on me.


I'd be inclined to think you 'get it'. But you don't. Yet.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

When life takes a turn for the worse, you get to see a person's true character. You made life rough for your partner, and she showed you her character. When people show you who they are, you are well served to believe what you see. The decision is yours-


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

summersoul said:


> I emotionally and verbally abused her a few times, as I felt she is disrespecting me. Told her things like she is a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re. I was just two times and I apologized but afterwards she thought this is how I really think about her and it hurted her self-esteem. I didnt really mean it and said these things out of anger but she never believed that. I disrespected her and argued with her when I was feeling disrespected. But there were many good times also in between. The most time was great. The sex was great and we had really much fun together. I gave her my whole attention and did nice things for her, were always there for her.


 So although most of the time you gave her your "whole attention and did nice things for her", there where "just two times" that you told her in anger that she was "a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re", for which you apologized for afterwards. Thus based on the fact that you were not perfect, she has you thinking that you deserved to be cheated on by her. 

Dude, she is a cheater without remorse that looked for an excuse to blame you for her cheating. Cheaters always try to hold there partner to a standard of perfection that they do not hold to themselves. They do this because they want their partner to fail, so that they can have an excuse to blame the partner for their cheating. It is right out of the cheater' script. The truth is if there were only 2 times like this in the 2 1/2 years that you have been a couple, it does not sound like you have an abusive relationship with her. If it was not for these two times that you got angry, she would have had something else to blame you for her cheating, because as a human, there will always be a reason that she can find. Stop buying into this bull. 



summersoul said:


> So to make this short: She started an affair at the most hardest and hopeless time in our relationship. She told me she lost hope that it would work out and went for this other man. But I didnt go for other women at this time.


 Based on what you called her those two times that you go angry, it is clear that your anger with her was connected to her and other men. Based on her cheating, it sounds like you had reason to be concerned about her and other men.

Bottom line. Deep down inside, you knew that there was something wrong with the way that she was acting inappropriately with other men and you were right. Even if this was the first time that she cheated on you, she has been interacting with other men such that she never took herself off the market. She is an unremorseful cheater that is trying to blame shifted fault for her cheating onto you. If you take her back, she will cheat again.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

This is really very simple. The way you treated her prior is irrelevant to the cheating. She should have called you out on that and, lacking a satisfactory result from you, she should have divorced you and gone to be with whomever she liked. That did not happen and that is on her. That doesn't relieve you from the obligation of treating people with respect and decency but it does not justify an affair.

So then, the issue at hand is do you want to reconcile with her? If the answer is yes then forgive her. If no, then do not. If your answer is yes then there are two possibilities you face. One, she is deeply remorseful and does EVERYTHING in her power to prove that to you, heavy lifting they call it. She sacrifices herself to heal you in all areas. You marriage has a shot in this case.

The other scenario is that she is not really sincere and halfheartedly tries to make you believe that she is. In this case, you will have to do a lot of rugsweeping and be able to live without a lot of the truth. Also, since she is not truly repentant, this will almost certainly happen again so you must accept that probability.

Lastly, whether you decide to R or not you should seriously consider your treatment of your S going forward.


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## bandit.45 (Feb 8, 2012)

DayOne said:


> And that, right there, is where you're not getting it.
> 
> If, IF, it had read
> 
> ...


Wrong. She had other options. She could have left him. She could have demanded they go to marriage counseling. She could have divorced him BEFORE finding another man. What she did was weak and cowardly.

You're the one who doesn't get it. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Summersoul, 

I'm writing to you as someone who was formerly a disloyal spouse, and at this time I would advise forgiveness but probably not in the way that you are envisioning. 

See, forgiveness does not mean condoning her behavior or accepting it. Forgiveness means 'I let go of that past wrong and won't use it as a weapon anymore' or releasing the need for being compensated for a wrong. HOWEVER that does not in any way mean taking her back or continuing your relationship with her!!! NO!!!!

In real life, you have issues that you need to address if you were treating her so poorly. My guess is that she's telling you this is why she had her affair--pointing the finger at you rather than taking personal responsibility. And I notice you're not disagreeing with her accusations. So in real life you need to address that before you're in a relationship with anyone! 

BUT she has even bigger issues: namely that rather than admitting what she did was wrong, turning 100% from her bad behavior, and accepting personal responsibility for what she chose to do....she is blaming YOU for HER CHOICES! This is an extremely bad sign, because it means that in her mind she can justify doing very hurtful, unloving things to you just by point the finger at you rather than looking at herself!

So #1 go ahead and go to some counseling and figure out why you would treat someone you supposedly love so poorly. Work on creating new personal habit and take responsibility for working on yourself--that's admirable. But #2 do not get back into a relationship with that woman or with ANY woman who won't look at her own self, take personal responsibility for what she chose to do, own her own side of what went wrong (both before the affair and the ENTIRE CHOICE of choosing adultery), work on fixing herself, and put in the effort to repair the damage she did by making that choice!! 

What it would look like if she was really a woman worth your time, would be that she would be admitting that SHE was the one who chose adultery, she wasn't happy but did not work on creating happiness in her own life, she expected you to be responsible for her feelings, she made the EXTREMELY wrong choice, it's 100% her responsibility to fix herself, and its on her shoulders to do the hard work of helping you recover from the damage her choices did to you. 

Now this is very unlikely with this woman because if she was willing to do hard work, she would have worked harder to communicate to you how unhappy she was in the marriage...or she would have done the hard work to end the relationship honorably and kept her vow. Instead, she demonstrated by her actions that she's not willing to do hard work, and that if she "has to" do hard consequences, she blames others to deflect having to endure the consequence of her own choice! 

So be honorable. Do the right thing. Fix your side and address your own issues--but do not accept anything less than someone who will be 100% personally responsible. Okay? You are worth that.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

From what you describe, you're not married and have no kids together. Then *RUN!*

And work on yourself so you can a better relationship with your next partner. Learn from these mistakes. If you were verbally abusive on 2 occasions, then get into some anger management treatment.

Obviously, OM isn't relationship material. At this point you're Plan B until OM#2 comes around.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Funny thing. Sounds like she treated you like sh1t too. Wasn't her prior affairs hurtful towards you too. So as soon as things go wrong, her panties drop. 

I would just end the relationship. You have anger issues and self-esteem to work on. She probably has the same issues. I wouldn't be surprise that she had the affair to hurt you. 

You both shouldn't be any relationship right now as it tends to need two healthy people to make it work. I can think of a few things that your relationship lacks. 
Empathy, respect, understanding, and so and so on.

Right now your probably just used to being together. Take space and figure yourself out first.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

lordmayhem said:


> If you were verbally abusive on 2 occasions, then get into some anger management treatment.


 @lordmayhem: In 2 1/2 years, there were 2 occasions where he got mad at her, and called her names that indicated that he had issues with her actions around other men. He never got physical with her, and he apologized both times afterwards. We need more details, but if she was in fact acting like a **** with another man (her affair shows she was acting this way), is him calling her one without getting physical really indicative that he is an abusive person in need of anger management treatment?


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## SamuraiJack (May 30, 2014)

Dude
Thse two months she was distant. You can bet doughnuts she was affairing then too.

If your gut tells you that you can both man up and treat each other right, then try.
But you will have to let go of some of her past and you dont sound like you can do that right now. 
Maybe later?

If you take nothing away from this, take this mathe equation

Treat her like **** = She will leave


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

I don't begin to claim to understand what Summersoul and his wife did to each other and how much pain one's comments and action caused the other. Calling a person a bastard, for example, may hurt them worse than another person if they were born out of wedlock and they were ridiculed during childhood. 
What I take exception are comment like, " The blame for your problems before the infidelity should be allocated 50-50. But the affair is 100% on them." 
No, if you treat your spouse badly, its 100% on you. You don't get to assign half the blame to your spouse if you insult them, ignore their need, or are otherwise a general horses azz towards them.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> I don't begin to claim to understand what Summersoul and his wife did to each other and how much pain one's comments and action caused the other. Calling a person a bastard, for example, may hurt them worse than another person if they were born out of wedlock and they were ridiculed during childhood.
> What I take exception are comment like, " The blame for your problems before the infidelity should be allocated 50-50. But the affair is 100% on them."
> No, if you treat your spouse badly, its 100% on you. You don't get to assign half the blame to your spouse if you insult them, ignore their need, or are otherwise a general horses azz towards them.


Meh, I am sure she was a princess and he was an a$$. Never that simple, hence the 50/50. Even if it is 90/10, she still should not cheat. Sounds to me like he treated her like dirt, due to her poor boundaries.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

TRy said:


> @lordmayhem: In 2 1/2 years, there were 2 occasions where he got mad at her, and called her names that indicated that he had issues with her actions around other men. He never got physical with her, and he apologized both times afterwards. We need more details, but if she was in fact acting like a **** with another man (her affair shows she was acting this way), is him calling her one without getting physical really indicative that he is an abusive person in need of anger management treatment?


Depends on your line of work and experience. I'm not going o start a derail. LM made his comment and I think I know why. If so, I agree with him


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

summersoul said:


> So what do you think, would you forgive cheating under these circumstances?


I wouldn't forgive it under any circumstance, but that's me.

If you really feel she is all the things you called her based on her past "mistakes", and she ended up cheating, again I presume, then I wouldn't forgive her at all if I were you.



> If you really messed up and treated your girl like crap, does she deserve a second chance?
> 
> Regards


No. But I have to ask. You say you treated her like crap for her "past mistakes" What were these mistakes? Cheating? If so, you didn't get angry with her over nothing and by cheating prior to your badgering, let alone after, then SHE is the one that treated you like crap. Your reactions, with the exceptions of calling her things like s!ut and hoor, are perfectly normal and acceptable. Hell, depending on the circumstances certain names are also perfectly understandable. But we just don't have enough to go on here.

Regardless, IMO, cheaters don't deserve a 2nd chance. I repeat, they don't DESERVE it. That's not to say you shouldn't give it depending on the circumstance or your desired outcome.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Forgive. Don't forgive. You guys are a terrible match and shouldn't be together.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

summersoul said:


> So what do you think, would you forgive cheating under these circumstances? If you really messed up and treated your girl like crap, does she deserve a second chance?
> Regards


I didn't see any solutions in your comment; just statements of what's happened. She was disrespectful and you in turn said hurtful things to her. She cheated and is trying to use the state of the relationship as an excuse for it. And now you'll be back in the same relationship and possibly with no answers for those problems plus you also have her infidelity baggage piled on top of it. That's a recipe for disaster SS.

I think you need to fix a few things
- don't rug sweeping her affair. If she doesn't own it then don't even try.
- don't take any blame for her affair and don't let her make excuses about it.
- no more allowing disrespect. You allowed it by arguing and being ugly instead of just telling her to leave unless she treats you right.
- no more trying to control her. Your boundaries are about how you react when someone crosses them. She can be b!tch or not and that's her choice. Your choice to send her packing if she is but it's not good to get angry and call her nasty names. That reeks of fear and insecurity.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

[RIGHT[/RIGHT]

You can divorce her and forgive her.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

naiveonedave said:


> Meh, I am sure she was a princess and he was an a$$. Never that simple, hence the 50/50. Even if it is 90/10, she still should not cheat. Sounds to me like he treated her like dirt, due to her poor boundaries.


If its "not that simple" what if one decided to slap the other around a bit because, "they couldn't keep their mouth shut"? At what point does bad behavior escalate to the point where fault is no longer allocated 50-50, but is now 100% borne by only one? 
In my way of thinking, you are 100% responsible for any action you willfully take.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

ThePheonix said:


> If its "not that simple" what if one decided to slap the other around a bit because, "they couldn't keep their mouth shut"? At what point does bad behavior escalate to the point where fault is no longer allocated 50-50, but is now 100% borne by only one?
> In my way of thinking, you are 100% responsible for any action you willfully take.


 I agree with you on this, but have a question for you. Bringing it back to the OP's situation (yeah crazy of me), if the wife acted inappropriately with other men over 2 1/2 years such that the OP got angry enough on 2 occasions to call her a name, which he later apologized for calling her, how would you allocate responsibility for issues in the OP's marriage?


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

TRy said:


> I agree with you on this, but have a question for you. Bringing it back to the OP's situation (yeah crazy of me), if the wife acted inappropriately with other men over 2 1/2 years such that the OP got angry enough on 2 occasions to call her a name, which he later apologized for calling her, how would you allocate responsibility for issues in the OP's marriage?


Let's assume/pretent those are the facts--in a 2 1/2 year period:


Wife acted inappropriately with other man #1.
He got angry and called her the most derogatory name he could think of. 
He apologized. 
Wife acted inappropriately with other man #2.
He got angry and called her the most derogatory name he could think of.
He apologized

Let's also assume that between her inappropriate actions with the other men, that he was attentive, kind, thoughtful, and loving (the perfect spouse, which is unattainable, of course  ).

If that were the case, then his choice to get angry the first time is still his responsibility. His choice to call her a name is still his responsibility. His choice to apologize is a step in the right direction to admitting he did something wrong/hurtful. His choice after that to do nothing to change is his responsibility. His choice to get angry a second time is his responsibility. His choice to call her a name a second time is still his responsibility. His choice to apologize is nice but less meaningful because he's not doing any action to stop doing it even though he says he knows it's wrong. 

My point here is that it may well be that prior to the affair the division of right and wrong was 10% he was wrong and 90% she was wrong, and the affair was 100% squarely on her! But someone else's poor choices are not justifications for bad actions. His 10% would still be his, and he'd be responsible to address his 10%. 

If someone else's poor choices were justification for YOU to behave badly, then affairs would be justified, and they are not.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

TRy, he's 100% responsible for being dumb enough to stay with a woman who diddles around with other men for 2 1/2 years. Its like my buddy's FIL, the preacher down at Antioch Baptist Church would tell him, "forgive her and forget her my son".


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## sidney2718 (Nov 2, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> I don't begin to claim to understand what Summersoul and his wife did to each other and how much pain one's comments and action caused the other. Calling a person a bastard, for example, may hurt them worse than another person if they were born out of wedlock and they were ridiculed during childhood.
> What I take exception are comment like, " The blame for your problems before the infidelity should be allocated 50-50. But the affair is 100% on them."
> No, if you treat your spouse badly, its 100% on you. You don't get to assign half the blame to your spouse if you insult them, ignore their need, or are otherwise a general horses azz towards them.


You don't understand. The wife is supposed to take whatever the husband dishes out. He is allowed to treat her badly, call her names, and generally make her life miserable. And she is not allowed to do anything about it. In fact, if she were to seek divorce, she'd automatically be a b1tch and deserve any ill treatment she got for abandoning her loving husband.

And of course if she seeks a little gentleness and understanding, then she's clearly a wh0re. She does not understand that she belongs to her husband and only he can decide what she does with her body.

Note, there may be some slight sarcasm in the above...


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## bunny23 (May 19, 2011)

HMMMMMM

Not sure if this was a physical or emotional affair.. also why say those things to her in the first place... basically saying she is a bad person, a *****... etc. Where did this come from?

Also she is having an affair but what kind..? If the relationship was horrible at the end she may have started discussing it with someone.

I do agree that women are called *****s, crazy, ***** etc etc when they won't take your crap anymore- and that is supposed to be okay I guess.

I don't think the OP has any idea how many times he called her things/cannot be objective about it...


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> I don't begin to claim to understand what Summersoul and his wife did to each other and how much pain one's comments and action caused the other. Calling a person a bastard, for example, may hurt them worse than another person if they were born out of wedlock and they were ridiculed during childhood.
> What I take exception are comment like, " The blame for your problems before the infidelity should be allocated 50-50. But the affair is 100% on them."
> No, if you treat your spouse badly, its 100% on you. You don't get to assign half the blame to your spouse if you insult them, ignore their need, or are otherwise a general horses azz towards them.


Yea we can and should begin to guess if we want to give him decent and sincere advice. I'll explain. He said nasty things like 'you don't respect me', 'you use men', 'you're a sl*t', 'you're a wh*re'. While we can agree that it wasn't good to say, let's not pretend to be blind to likely dynamics that cause guys to say those things. Openly flirting and flaunting and doing it no matter what your partner says is what normally gets this response. Let's add more circumstantial evidence to the pot in that she eventually cheated.

OP's problem is he tried to control her with intimidation instead of telling her to hit the road or change. That's why he needs to work on himself and that's why he needs to let her go.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

sidney2718 said:


> You don't understand. The wife is supposed to take whatever the husband dishes out. He is allowed to treat her badly, call her names, and generally make her life miserable. And she is not allowed to do anything about it. In fact, if she were to seek divorce, she'd automatically be a b1tch and deserve any ill treatment she got for abandoning her loving husband.
> 
> And of course if she seeks a little gentleness and understanding, then she's clearly a wh0re. She does not understand that she belongs to her husband and only he can decide what she does with her body.
> 
> Note, there may be some slight sarcasm in the above...


Sarcasm does help summersoul very much. There's blame to go around here and her sleeping with some other guy is 100% on her. But she's not here so we can tell summersoul where he needs to work. He got here by being a guy of hurtful threats rather than setting his boundaries and sending her along her merry way if she didn't decide to be respectful to him. Instead he returned the favor by being disrespectful to her. I'm certain that there were red flags galore and he tried to control her behavior through intimidation and hurtful words rather than just enforcing his personal boundary. That's the root of the problem and it's what needs to change if summersoul wants to avoid this again.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

We don't know all the facts. Everyone is responsible for their own action. For all we knew , she could of been bored and wanted novelty. She could of have gone overboard from a sleight reaction. He could have been abusive towards her. No one should assign percentage, that is just not going to get you anywhere. 

When he found out about her affair, he probably should walk away, calm down, and gather his thoughts. Lots of actions under duress are simply wrong. Same goes for her too. 

Also, she could be a serial cheater too. He caught her twice. That is all he knows too. Studies show that a majority of people get away with cheating. 

Right now it doesn't seem like worth the effort of reconciling, and she is the one who wants to reconcile too.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Another thought I want to add. Maybe she treated him poorly as well. Sards are often look down by bread winner wives, and who is to say she doesn't call him names also when they argue. Hopefully he elaborates more when he responds.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

DayOne said:


> And that, right there, is where you're not getting it.
> 
> If, IF, it had read
> 
> ...



k


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

bandit.45 said:


> Wrong. She had other options. She could have left him. She could have demanded they go to marriage counseling. She could have divorced him BEFORE finding another man. What she did was weak and cowardly.
> 
> You're the one who doesn't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



I disagree with Dayone. Sounds like cheating justification to me or sarcasm. I would like Dayone to explain further


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

lordmayhem said:


> From what you describe, you're not married and have no kids together. Then *RUN!*
> 
> And work on yourself so you can a better relationship with your next partner. Learn from these mistakes. If you were verbally abusive on 2 occasions, then get into some anger management treatment.
> 
> Obviously, OM isn't relationship material. At this point you're Plan B until OM#2 comes around.


I agree ....Its not so much the act itself...its the LIES,DECEIT and Betrayl that the BS feels regardless of the time frame involved...and that from that day forward you come to realize that your entire marriage was built on LIES...and the person who you thought you knew and trusted is a imposter and the doubt ,self esteem issues and the never ending anxiety that starts and NEVER LEAVES...


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

DayOne said:


> And that, right there, is where you're not getting it.
> 
> If, IF, it had read
> 
> ...


HOLY crap is this disappointing, DayOne.
Totally and completely off the mark bro. Totally. 
**YOU** don't get it, in this case.

Bandit's right, as usual.


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## 2xloser (May 8, 2011)

wmn1 said:


> I disagree with Dayone. Sounds like cheating justification to me or sarcasm. I would like Dayone to explain further


OK, maybe I should have said it more like this


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> If its "not that simple" what if one decided to slap the other around a bit because, "they couldn't keep their mouth shut"? At what point does bad behavior escalate to the point where fault is no longer allocated 50-50, but is now 100% borne by only one?
> In my way of thinking, you are 100% responsible for any action you willfully take.




so is she


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

summersoul said:


> . . . When I found out about the affair on my own, I wanted to run first. But she is begging and telling me that she felt abused, underappreciated and undervalued, thats why she was more open for other men.
> 
> So what do you think, would you forgive cheating under these circumstances? If you really messed up and treated your girl like crap, does she deserve a second chance? . . .


summersoul,

So, do you want to spend the rest of your life worrying that the next time she feels _"underappreciated and undervalued,"_ she will cheat again? Or would you rather find someone who can be trusted to act like a grown up?

Like a few others have said, you have no kids so you have no good reason to take another chance with her. Apply what you've learned to your next relationship. You'll be a lot happier.

Good luck.


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## interesting (Oct 27, 2014)

I used to always think that cheating was a deal-breaker. I gave up a 20 year marriage because my husband cheated………he didn't want the divorce……..but he didn't want to stop cheating either. He said what he did outside of the marriage didn't concern me. He said it was possible to love more than one woman.

I think it is possible to love more than one woman……but I think you can only be committed to one.

Recently I watched a talk show where a couple (marriage counselors no less) had a situation where the wife found out her husband had a mistress. Instead of splitting up….she fought for the relationship……..now they say they are stronger than ever.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

DayOne said:


> And that, right there, is where you're not getting it.
> 
> If, IF, it had read
> 
> ...



Dayone - 

while you're at it count me in the camp of NOT 'gettin it.' if someone treats you like crap you tell them to knock it off or you divorce them. if you cheat on them you go beyond 'treating them like crap' IMO - you humiliate them. I think I could forgive a lot of the back and forth of a bad marriage, but if someone humiliates me they've made an enemy for life, and I'd make sure to play the part. i.e. cheating is woese than most of the things that go in the category 'bad treatment.'


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> TRy, he's 100% responsible for being dumb enough to stay with a woman who diddles around with other men for 2 1/2 years. Its like my buddy's FIL, the preacher down at Antioch Baptist Church would tell him, "forgive her and forget her my son".


:iagree:

OP:

if you have failings work on them, just do it for some other woman TBD.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

summersoul said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> So me and my Ex were together for two and a half years. The last 6 months of our relationship were very difficult and rocky. Now I realize that I did many things wrong: I always came up with past mistakes she made and threw it in her face. I emotionally and verbally abused her a few times, as I felt she is disrespecting me. *Told her things like she is a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re.* I was just two times and I apologized but afterwards she thought this is how I really think about her and it hurted her self-esteem. I didnt really mean it and said these things out of anger but she never believed that. I disrespected her and argued with her when I was feeling disrespected. But there were many good times also in between. The most time was great. The sex was great and we had really much fun together. I gave her my whole attention and did nice things for her, were always there for her...
> 
> ...


So, you said those mean things at a time when she *hadn't *cheated on you?

Talk about poisoning the well.

Also, it is possible to get over cheating.

And also possible to get over an abusive spouse. But the latter? Maybe not so much.


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## lenzi (Apr 10, 2012)

summersoul said:


> Told her things like she is a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re.


Did you have good reason for saying these things to her?


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

ThePheonix said:


> What I take exception are comment like, " The blame for your problems before the infidelity should be allocated 50-50. But the affair is 100% on them."
> No, if you treat your spouse badly, its 100% on you.


If in fact she never did anything wrong and he just treated her badly out of being a horses ass, then I'd agree.

He has said she has made past mistakes, of which I can only guess what it was, and disrespected him. His treatment of her in the relationship is 100% on him, her treatment of him in the relationship is 100% on her....but there is a shared responsibility to the relationship, hence the 50/50

She went outside the relationship. Sorry, but its a game changer when that happens.




> You don't get to assign half the blame to your spouse if you insult them, ignore their need, or are otherwise a general horses azz towards them.


True, but he can assign half the blame in the problems in the relationship, not in the way he decides to handle it. The latter is on him, and her behavior is on her....she just decided to take it a HUGE step further and cheat.


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## badkarma2013 (Nov 9, 2013)

bandit.45 said:


> Wrong. She had other options. She could have left him. She could have demanded they go to marriage counseling. She could have divorced him BEFORE finding another man. What she did was weak and cowardly.
> 
> You're the one who doesn't get it.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_




ABSOLUTELY ******This is not so hard to understand... in my EXWs affair ...she did things with OM that was a DEALBREAKER for me...everyone here has their own dealbreaker.... .Not really so hard to understand...

When one betrays their spouse ..they run the risk of losing their marriage...male or female...simple as that..!!!!


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

Ok, I read that first post a few times and really, some things are NOT clear.

First of all, he said he threw past mistakes in her face. Those mistakes could be ANYTHING, not necessarily infidelity related. Some of you are in this mindset that EVERYTHING in the post must point to infidelity, and it's not necessarily true. It could be something as simple as locking the keys in the car and having to call someone to unlock it, thus costing $$$. Or, it COULD be infidelity, therefore you may be right. How about we not speculate as to what these mistakes were, shall we?

Second, he admitted that he emotionally and verbally abused her. ABUSED her, folks. Who WOULDN'T be distant if abused??? And WHY did he abuse ger? Because he FELT she was disrespecting him. Idgaf how disrespected someone feels. There is NO EXCUSE for abuse of ANY kind. Period. So, hell, yes, I would feel distant if my husband acted in this manner!

Third, go back and re-read the part about the affair. He said they made up and had a good time, but didn't say they were actually back together AT THAT POINT. They decided to work on things when she got back. Again, could mean they decided after she returned, not necessarily decided before she left that they'd work it out upon her return. They had an argument and broke up. Then got back together, then he learned about the other guy from vacation.

The time table is not completely clear. However, the one thing I will absolutely agree with is that OP and his ex should NOT be together. They are too volatile. And, IF they were not actually together, then it really wasn't an affair. And, I can fully understand being distant from someone who has, admittedly, been abusive. Abusers will downplay how much they did... like saying "it was only a couple times", when it could have been much more than that. And if that's the case here, I can't say I blame her, honestly. HOWEVER, if it was, indeed, an affair... meaning OP and the ex were together when she got with the other guy, then she was wrong to do so.

Now, can he forgive, if she did have an affair? Sure... if he so chooses. But OP, forgiveness doesn't mean you have to be together. 

Too much just doesn't make sense to me, and I would like to know a bit more about the timeline, first.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

summersoul said:


> we made up once again and had a good time. Regards


Yeah, there's lots of good times on the road to hell ... until you arrive in hell. That's where you are about to land if you stay with this cheater. 

Yes, you should forgive, but that does not imply you should reconcile.


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Ok, I read that first post a few times and really, some things are NOT clear.
> 
> First of all, he said he threw past mistakes in her face. Those mistakes could be ANYTHING, not necessarily infidelity related.


Which is why I, and another poster, asked for clarification.

But its a good bet it is cheating. I can't think of much that one would care to throw up in someone else's face if not cheating or crossing the line in some way.

Ya, there could be something like, mistakes with money, etc. But my money is on something related to crossing the line with another man or men.





> Some of you are in this mindset that EVERYTHING in the post must point to infidelity, and it's not necessarily true.


You are right, not necessarily. But since she has cheated, its a good bet that the past mistakes are of similar infractions.

That and usually in CWI, "mistakes" are cheating related, typically.




> It could be something as simple as locking the keys in the car and having to call someone to unlock it, thus costing $$$. Or, it COULD be infidelity, therefore you may be right. How about we not speculate as to what these mistakes were, shall we?


I'm not. I asked for clarification.




> Second, he admitted that he emotionally and verbally abused her. ABUSED her, folks. Who WOULDN'T be distant if abused???



He also said it was in response to him feeling disrespected, which could be seen as abuse too depending on what form the disrespect takes.

Not enough to go on though. We are getting very little details.



> And WHY did he abuse ger? Because he FELT she was disrespecting him. Idgaf how disrespected someone feels. There is NO EXCUSE for abuse of ANY kind. Period. So, hell, yes, I would feel distant if my husband acted in this manner!


Again, we need details. Lets say this disrespect of which he speaks is in the form of infidelity, verbally abusing him as well. 

If I were to yell at a SO over cheating and that is seen as verbal abuse, well sorry, her cheating, IMO is abuse. Which came first, the chicken or the egg is the question.




> Too much just doesn't make sense to me, and I would like to know a bit more about the timeline, first.


I agree. We don't have enough to go on and our questions aren't being answered.


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## DayOne (Sep 19, 2014)

Maricha75 said:


> Ok, I read that first post a few times and really, some things are NOT clear.
> 
> First of all, he said he threw past mistakes in her face. Those mistakes could be ANYTHING, not necessarily infidelity related. Some of you are in this mindset that EVERYTHING in the post must point to infidelity, and it's not necessarily true. It could be something as simple as locking the keys in the car and having to call someone to unlock it, thus costing $$$. Or, it COULD be infidelity, therefore you may be right. How about we not speculate as to what these mistakes were, shall we?
> 
> ...



That's where I was coming from. He treated her like sh*t. Most of the first paragraph mentions this (though I have a feeling it barely scratches the surface). Eventually, she checked out. 

I'm not justifying her actions, but equally i'm sure as he11 not defending his. "It was just two times and I apologized but afterwards "? Trickle truth is not just for cheaters.

OP's abusive, she's a cheater. No innocents here. Call time and move on.

Edit: I also notice he hasn't posted here or anywhere since the OP (though several similar threads started before that). Where'd he go? Perhaps some of these posts made him look in the mirror and he didn't like what he saw.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

*Re: Re: Should I forgive her? Please, need opinions*



DayOne said:


> Edit: I also notice he hasn't posted here or anywhere since the OP (though several similar threads started before that). Where'd he go? Perhaps some of these posts made him look in the mirror and he didn't like what he saw.


Good catch! Harder for me to wade through all that on my phone. Seriously, same post, almost verbatim, last month. Here's a tip for you, OP: MOVE THE F*CK ON!!!

*Also posted in his other thread, she didn't actually hook up with the vacation guy until they has broken up. However, if someone sees a kiss as cheating, then she cheated. If not, then she didn't. All about the perception of the one cheated/not cheated. IMO, kissing would fall under cheating. Some, I know, don't see it that way. So, by MY definition, she did cheat, even if only kissing.

I still say OP CAN forgive, but it isn't mandatory.


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## summersoul (Mar 23, 2014)

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

I wanted to give u more details..

About how I treated her. The first time I told her cruel things was about an incident that happened one year ago. She was still with her ex when we were dating and I knew nothing about it. After I found out she told me she was afraid to let go, but still she told him that she loves him and received money from him. I found out by my self and a year later, during an argument it just came out. I told her, she is using people and she is a golddigger. 

Then we were always arguing because I felt disrespected. For example she slapped the butt of our both male friend at a party and I told her that isnt right. She started denying it and told stupid things like she didnt saw that it was the butt, that she slapped. That made me so angry. She was always denying things at first. I always had to distance myself to make her realize what she did was wrong. At the end of the relationship I was tired of it, so I started to argue and got angry. I was tired of waiting till she realizes she is wrong. And I think, she was wrong many times. It would have just taken a litte "Ok that was not cool, sorry" and I would forget it but she always at first wanted to be right and start denying things. She had problems to say sorry. Often when she lied to me about small things, she even was denying that she lied. Told things like "I just left out an information, so it was not a lie" An information that she didnt want me to know. 

I also got a little bit clingy and controlling because of that. Few months were great and I stopped my behaviour, then I accidentally looked at her phone, found something that disappointed me and got controlling again. 

Concerning the cheating. In the last month of our relationship we argued very much. I often felt disrespected and instead of leave her alone I started to argue and hurt her with words, sometimes I shouted at her. I was sick of explaining to her that she made a mistake. After an argument, I went out, got drunk and flirted with a few girls. Didnt took things further, didnt took their numbers and told her the next day, I apologized. She did similar things, like joining dating sites "just to hurt me" after an argument. One day before she went on vacation we made up. First days, when she was there we wrote and everything was fine. Then she went to the club and I got a weird feeling (I often get this gut feeling that is right). I asked her if something happened, she said no. Later I found out that she lied to me, because she asked this guy to meet her at the club, they flirted and almost kissed each other. Cause I had this feeling, I told her that I dont believe her. I wanted to check her social network site, she gave me her password before but I forgot, so I asked her. She didnt want to give it to me, cause she felt "under controll". Later I found out that she didnt want to give it to me cause she was chatting with this guy. After she told me that she wont give it to me, I broke up with her. If she gave it to me before and doesnt want to tell me now, something is wrong and I felt disrespected. As I found out later, at this time she was chatting with this guy and met him one on one. So I told her, out of anger, that I dont want to be with her anymore. I didnt mean it, I just wanted her to realize that she is behaving stupid. She didnt make anything about it and at the same day she went to this guys house and kissed him. She slept with him a day later. A few days after that she called me apologized and wanted to continue our relationship. (After she slept with him). I tried to talk to her but we argued again and broke up seriously a week later. 

So now she is telling me, that it wasnt cheating cause she kissed him the day, I broke up. But in my opinion it would have happened even if we didnt argue and I didnt broke up. Cause she hooked up with him before that and chatted with him, lied to me. There was no going back.. I think!
For me it was cheating, cause she set up a date with another man behind my back and lied to me about it. So yeah, she is a sloot in my eyes. The kind of girl who will jump on another digk when the relationship gets rocky and is on the edge of a break up.

When she came back, she wanted me back. We met, we slept with each other. At this time I didnt date other girls cause the whole thing hurt me so much and I was still in love with her, I wanted her back. I asked her if she slept with another man and she asked me how can I ask such a cruel question. Later I found out by myself that she had unprotected sex with him and just slept with me when she came back without thinking about having and giving me an std. How stupid can someone be to do such a thing..?

So yeah, I made many mistakes and gave her a lot of drama and stress, but the most time, because I was tired of her not being able to say sorry and admit to herself when she disrespected me. I had to take action istead of arguing but I didnt want to play this game "I dont give u my attention to you, so u will realize u was wrong". I was clingy and controlling and that also was wrong. But she also lied.. and lied about the lie.. I was abusive emotionally and verbally. Insulted her for two times. But I guess whats worse than sleeping with your partner after you had unprotected sex with a stranger? Its like physical abuse, cause I could have a std now. But I had luck cause I wasnt stupid enough to not using protection when I slept with her. She didnt care about it lol and wanted to have sex one time as I forgot condoms, anyway. So I think telling her what she made wrong in the past and saying things like "she is a golddigger and she is using men" did hurt her really much. What I cant understand. She was also telling me very often that I just wanted to use her for sex. That means I am a jerk who wants to use her. But I always tried to explain to her that it is not like that and proved the opposite. And it was really not like that!! For me, cheating and lying about it is ten times more worse than any cruel thing you can say to someone. For me its worse than emotional, verbal and physical abuse at the same time..

So maybe now you got a better picture and I would be happy to hear your opinion.


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## Squeakr (May 1, 2013)

Move on. You are no longer together and you have both wronged each other. If you decide to mutually forgive and apologize to each other sometime in the future, then I would say go for it (if it is something you need to clear your conscience) otherwise forget about it and move on. Her actions seem to reflect your comments. As to cheating, yes I would say she did, if nothing more than an EA (nothing physical) if she was cavorting and sharing intimate connections with another that should be reserved for your committed partner, then she is cheating (whether physical exchanges occurred or not).


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Honestly after reading this i am so troubled that you even have to question whether you should be with her or not, she is broken and your relationship will not fix her, and a the very least you two are seriously like oil and water, i think you have to ask yourself if this is the relationship you pictured in your mind that you can see grow and blossom. Time to walk away and get back your dignity.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

summersoul said:


> I always came up with past mistakes she made and threw it in her face. I emotionally and verbally abused her a few times, as I felt she is disrespecting me. Told her things like she is a bad woman, sloot, she is using men, she is a wh*re.
> 
> I know I treated her like crap the last two months and made many mistakes but did I deserve to be cheated on?


Nobody deserves to be cheated on, just as nobody deserves to be emotionally/verbally abused.


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## summersoul (Mar 23, 2014)

Yeah I know that I should move on and I know she got serious issues.. It is just so hard, I really loved her and after she cheated I am feeling like I failed as a man. Cause she turned to another man, I feel I was not enough or that she didnt love me enough.

Jellybeans, of course nobody deserves to be verbally or emotionally abused. But for me, cheating is the worst thing you can do to your partner. If she called me the most cruel names and punched me in the face it wouldnt hurt so bad like the pictures in my head how she is sleeping with OM. It hurts so bad that someone, who even didnt care about her like I did, did get her so easily. I really cared about her, I was always there for her, I gave her gifts that made her cry... Sorry, I am just so hurt, even now, I cry almost everyday, cause it hurts so much...


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## imjustwatching (Jul 8, 2014)

Duuuude , run run run
she really immature not a long term material , you can just sleep around with her nothing serious ....


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## Locke.Stratos (Sep 27, 2014)

I have to ask, you are here seeking advice but are you seriously going to take it or leave here and do your own thing again?

Now from what I've read from your posts, your "verbal" abuse of/arguments with her were usually you calling her out on her s*** and the result of you discovering her cheating or inapprpriate behaviour with other men and her lying to you, not a great response but understandable. I wouldn't classify what you have written that you have said and done as abuse.


You should have left her the moment you discovered:

• that she was still with her ex boyfriend while dating you
• that she slapped your friend's butt
• that she flirts with other men
• that she kissed another man
• that she cheated and had unprotected sex with another man
• that she joined a dating site
• that she set up dates with other men behind your back
• that she lies to you constantly
• that you feared she might've given you an STD

I do not know what a healthy relationship and fidelity looks like to you but it is certainly none of the above.

You feel like you failed because you were not enough for her and she didn't love you and you really love her, well f****** get over it.

You will never be enough for her, her ex boyfriends weren't and neither will any other person. She is an empty void that cannot be satisfied or fulfilled until she does the work she needs to in order to make herself whole, or hell maybe she is fine with who she is and is just enjoying her life the way that she wants.

She is a habitual, accomplished and unremorseful liar, manipulator and cheater.

Use common sense and have some f****** self respect, I do not know why you think her behaviour and actions are acceptable enough for you to even consider being with her because they are completely unacceptable.

You should forgive her in order to let go of your hurt and anger but you should not be with her. You have to eliminate her from your life, do not see her, delete & block her number, contact details and any other means she has of communicating with you. Take care of yourself, start socializing with better people, friends and family, exercise regularly and work on yourself. You will be happier once you separate yourself from her.


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

summersoul said:


> Yeah I know that I should move on and I know she got serious issues.. It is just so hard, I really loved her and after she cheated I am feeling like I failed as a man. Cause she turned to another man, I feel I was not enough or that she didnt love me enough.
> 
> Jellybeans, of course nobody deserves to be verbally or emotionally abused. But for me, cheating is the worst thing you can do to your partner. If she called me the most cruel names and punched me in the face it wouldnt hurt so bad like the pictures in my head how she is sleeping with OM. It hurts so bad that someone, who even didnt care about her like I did, did get her so easily. I really cared about her, I was always there for her, I gave her gifts that made her cry... Sorry, I am just so hurt, even now, I cry almost everyday, cause it hurts so much...



A couple thoughts that we generally share on TAM: 

"*If someone is not treating you with love and respect, it is a gift if they walk away from you*. If that person doesn't walk away, you will surely endure many years of suffering with him or her. Walking away may hurt for a while, but your heart will eventually heal. Then you can choose what you really want. You will find that you don't need to trust others as much as you need to trust yourself to make the right choices.” 
(I'll add here: *If someone is not treating you with love and respect, give yourself a gift by walking away from them.*)

“Whatever happens around you, don't take it personally... *Nothing other people do is because of you. It is because of themselves*.” 
― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom

Your love cannot heal the wounds you did not cause. Like you, I really wish sometimes it were different. Kindest Regards-


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## vellocet (Oct 18, 2013)

Jellybeans said:


> Nobody deserves to be cheated on, just as nobody deserves to be emotionally/verbally abused.


Abused, no.

But I think cheaters do deserve a good tongue lashing after the BS finds out.


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## Mr Blunt (Jul 18, 2012)

> *By Summersoul*
> I really loved her and after she cheated I am feeling like I failed as a man. Cause she turned to another man, I feel I was not enough or that she didnt love me enough.


 You may have failed in some areas but your failures are not a good enough excuse for what your wife did. Stop blaming yourself for her wrong but do correct yourself. If your were abusing her then she should have stood up to you and give you an ultimatum; either you get better or she will leave you. Instead she took the easy selfish way out that is very destructive.


Here is what I think is the bottom line for you:

*Realize that you are in the situation where only the strong survive.* In other words you need to concentrate on you getting stronger and force yourself to stop being obsessed with your wife. You probably will try the push-pull method where you try to pull her to you then you push her away. That has a very poor success rate and usually does harm.


*The best way for you to get better is for you to get yourself stronger in body, mind, emotion, and spirit.* At this time you cannot depend on your wife to help you with that. She has proved that she does not have your best interest at heart so do not fool yourself.

*
I now that you are very hurt emotionally but you are going to have to use mind over emotions for now.*

You cannot put your life in the hands of your wife. She has proven that she will disrespect you and not love you like you need. Maybe she will make it up to you by proving with ACTIONS for YEARS. However, you know for sure that you can get respect and love for yourself by you keep improving in areas that make you a better man. Do not let your wife control your emotions and life!

*If you turn your hurts into you strength then you will not be as needy and many women will be attracted to that*.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

Two people with opposite sets of values. A bad combination.


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## abart (Aug 5, 2014)

"leave her" run the f**k away from her she is a gold-digger


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Summer,
You asked if you should forgive her. Yes. If you are asking if you should try to save the marriage, what exactly are you saving? She disrespects you, lies to you, flirts with guys in your presence, dates guys behind your back and sleeps with a guy while on vacation. What part of this do you want to save and hold on to? You may have some anger issues and may need to work on your inability to control your tongue while angry. She needs much more work than this and I do not believe you have the experience to psychoanalyze her and offer all that she needs to become whole again. I regret having to say it but I truly believe you are better off moving on. Good luck.


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