# Could it be an emotional affair???



## Hurt and confused 39 (11 mo ago)

Good morning everyone. Just looking for some advice please. My husband seems to be developing a close relationship with a female colleague. A bit of background, they were both managers in different parts of the country, she got promoted to a different position in Nov last. Up until recently he would never really mention her. They worked together on a project before Christmas, there was a case of mentionitis, which made my radar go up. There was a company conference in early December, my husband stayed overnight. He rang me the next morning to say he was going to pop into the head office just for an hour before making the long commute home. No word from him that morning and he ended up staying in head office until after lunch. Turns out he had lunch alone with her, but told me he was meeting a male colleague. I only know he lied because I had a feeling and checked his work phone, low and behold a message from her organising lunch together. Why the need to lie you may ask.

Well a little background. About 3 years ago, he began mentioning a colleague, she was the bees knees, great at her job, funny etc. Then he stopped mentioning her. So I snooped on both his work and personal phones. A few selfies from her on different occasions asking him to meet for drinks when she was staying in our area. Some flirty type messages from her, not reciprocated by my husband, but not shot down either. Then on one occasion they were away training, overnight gig, with dozens of other colleagues. Yet she messaged him asking did he fancy drinks. So they went for drinks and dinner alone. He was honest about it, couldn't see the issue. My problem was, to me it was obvious she was making advances, he said he genuinely didn't see it. He agreed moving forward to be more aware of things that could impact our marriage. 

So I pulled him on the lunch, just insisted I had a hunch he was lying to me. He said ah I met her, just a catch up and didn't tell you as I didn't want you worried because of what happened previously with other colleague. This is where I reminded him that honesty is all I ask for, otherwise its suspicious. Lying makes things look suspicious. I said I've zero issues with having female friends, it's the lying I've problems with. 

Anyway, he's completely stopped talking about her at all. Now, to be fair she is in a completely different department in the company now, so I'm assuming they wouldn't have much reason to be in contact much. HOWEVER I checked his work phone, and they speak almost every day, at least once a day. As I said, they are in different areas, so no reason for all the contact with each other. Am I looking too much into this, or has my husband found a companion and gotten very close with her??? He used to tell me all about the details of his work day, not so much anymore, it's as if he's already done that with someone else... her I'm guessing. 

Am I being crazy thinking somethings just not right here?? What should I do???


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

You’re not crazy, making dates (make no mistake, these are dates!) abc lying about it.
Honestly, it sounds a if you have an opportunistic cheater here, abd if it hasn’t gone physical, eventually it’ll get there.
Realize every single time you’ve investigated, there’s been cheating going on. Spending time alone with other women is cheating. Spending time with daily conversations, cheating. All the rest…… well it all starts with this…. The classic defense “oh I didn’t want to worry you”……. Uh huh.

I wish I could say that serving him papers and traumatizing him will fix this, but the truth is your dude is untrustworthy and as son as he feels secure again, you’ll see the same old behavior. The only advice I have is to not second guess yourself and understand that he’s a liar. And liars lie. They just get craftier at it when they get caught.


----------



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

@Hurt and confused 39 First of all, please let me welcome you to TAM. I'm sorry you had to seek us out, be glad you found us.

There's one important component of all marriages. Well, any relationship really, personal or business. And that component is trust.

Your husband has broken the trust that existed in your marriage because he is a liar. 

It's possible he is cheating physically, you might need to consider STD tests.

Also, a lie detector test might be a good option to consider and marital counselling, too.

These links are worth checking out:-


https://liedetectortest.ie/







Lie Detector | Polygraph | Ireland | BPA / APA Examiners


Lie Detector LTD. is the longest established polygraph business in Ireland BPA / APA QUALIFIED, CERTIFIED | Sian Devine MBA, M.Sc. When you choose us, you are choosing the most experienced and reliable examiners in Ireland. We are also the longest established polygraph business in Ireland. You...




liedetector.ie










Marriage and Relationship Counselling - Accord, Ireland


Marriage and Relationship Counselling page of Accord, who provide Marriage Preparation Courses as well as Marriage and Relationship Counselling services across 55 centres over the island of Ireland.




www.accord.ie












Marriage & Couples Relationship Counselling - Mind & Body Works


Experienced counsellors & therapists in Dublin. We help with relationship, marriage & couples counselling. Arrange an appointment with one of our therapists.




mindandbodyworks.com









Marriage Counselling, Couple Counselling, Marriage counseling, Couple counseling | Family Therapy Association of Ireland - FTAI


FTAI registered members are uniquely qualified and trained to work with couples on relationship issues. The training entails live supervision of couple and




www.familytherapyireland.com





The above are all in Ireland.

Please keep coming to TAM, we have all been where you are and can offer advice and/or a shoulder to lean on.

By the way, have you any children?


----------



## thunderchad (12 mo ago)

Men and women cannot be friends. One or more of them will almost always become attracted. 

When your spouse talks pleasantly about someone at work of the opposite sex you know they are having a crush.

This same dynamic has been repeated here 100s I'd not 1000s of times.

Did he cheat? I don't know. But does he want to...yes he does!


----------



## ElOtro (Apr 4, 2021)

thunderchad said:


> Men and women cannot be friends


And NOW you tell me! 
Will have to reconsider staying friends, good ones (and loyal to their own partners), that had been so for about 50 years.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

thunderchad said:


> Men and women cannot be friends. One or more of them will almost always become attracted.


yes, that is a simple biological effect. a man and a woman working in close quarters with each other are fairly likely to be attracted to each other.

But, only a very weak minded person would give in to that sort of attraction. 
Its not like at work you can go around avoiding everyone of the opposite sex. You DO have to remember to keep it all 100% professional though

some jobs, that is harder, like if you were a lady at a trucking company, the "guys" might make it more difficult...but still...no touchy!


----------



## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

It's so important in marriage to have sensible boundaries with the opposite sex. Sadly your husband hasn't got them.


----------



## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

When your spouse kept mentioning her, he was all giddy and a crush was developing. Once he stopped talking about her, he was in an EA with her. I would guess they consummated the affair at the conference in December. 

Do you have access to his phone? You would have to look at his social media, text, and emails. I’m sure he will resist but you need to strongly insist. I advise that you reach deep and let your inner beotch come out. I’ve read threads of BWs who are all timid, and they get run over. The ones that don’t hold back their anger usually get better results. So if you’re confident you have enough evidence, it may be time to release the kraken.


----------



## QuietRiot (Sep 10, 2020)

Hurt and confused 39 said:


> Good morning everyone. Just looking for some advice please. My husband seems to be developing a close relationship with a female colleague. A bit of background, they were both managers in different parts of the country, she got promoted to a different position in Nov last. Up until recently he would never really mention her. They worked together on a project before Christmas, there was a case of mentionitis, which made my radar go up. There was a company conference in early December, my husband stayed overnight. He rang me the next morning to say he was going to pop into the head office just for an hour before making the long commute home. No word from him that morning and he ended up staying in head office until after lunch. Turns out he had lunch alone with her, but told me he was meeting a male colleague. I only know he lied because I had a feeling and checked his work phone, low and behold a message from her organising lunch together. Why the need to lie you may ask.
> 
> Well a little background. About 3 years ago, he began mentioning a colleague, she was the bees knees, great at her job, funny etc. Then he stopped mentioning her. So I snooped on both his work and personal phones. A few selfies from her on different occasions asking him to meet for drinks when she was staying in our area. Some flirty type messages from her, not reciprocated by my husband, but not shot down either. Then on one occasion they were away training, overnight gig, with dozens of other colleagues. Yet she messaged him asking did he fancy drinks. So they went for drinks and dinner alone. He was honest about it, couldn't see the issue. My problem was, to me it was obvious she was making advances, he said he genuinely didn't see it. He agreed moving forward to be more aware of things that could impact our marriage.
> 
> ...


I’m sorry you are here. 

Your H has terrible boundaries, zero respect for you as his wife, and lies regularly and easily. These three attributes by themselves are difficult to deal with, but all together likely make him a nightmare to be married to. 

It really sucks to have to face the bitter truth about a person you love; but in the end it’s so much better to let yourself believe he is the person he is showing you, not the one you wish him to be. 

No you are not crazy. No you are not unreasonable for having a problem with your H’s behavior. YOU can’t fix his infatuations, lying, and interest in other women though; you can only figure out what you are willing to put up with and hold him accountable.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Sorry you are here.

There will be huge temptation to call him on these things you find, DO NOT DO IT, yet.... false confrontations without hard evidence drive things further underground, they just cover their tracks better.

If he is calling her, can you place a VAR in the right spot to pick up the conversation - maybe in his car?

Check out the standard evidence post for info about VARs.


----------



## QuietGuy (Aug 31, 2021)

The loss of trust is so worrying because face it, you only know about what you have been able to find yourself. How much is there that you don't know about? I would quit confronting him. It will only make him better at lying and hiding things. Keep investigating, but pretend you are not worried. If you keep letting him just explain it away, he will know he has nothing to worry about. Consult a lawyer so you know what a divorce might look like. If it gets to the point that you have to confront him again, tell him that you are no longer going to be the marriage police and that it is up to him to come up with a plan to save the marriage and make himself a safe partner. Tell him words don't matter and he will be judged by his actions. Don't give him much time to decide (1 day max), never beg (it gives him all the power), don't negotiate. Be calm but firm.


----------



## Anony111 (11 mo ago)

Hurt and confused 39 said:


> Good morning everyone. Just looking for some advice please. My husband seems to be developing a close relationship with a female colleague. A bit of background, they were both managers in different parts of the country, she got promoted to a different position in Nov last. Up until recently he would never really mention her. They worked together on a project before Christmas, there was a case of mentionitis, which made my radar go up. There was a company conference in early December, my husband stayed overnight. He rang me the next morning to say he was going to pop into the head office just for an hour before making the long commute home. No word from him that morning and he ended up staying in head office until after lunch. Turns out he had lunch alone with her, but told me he was meeting a male colleague. I only know he lied because I had a feeling and checked his work phone, low and behold a message from her organising lunch together. Why the need to lie you may ask.
> 
> Well a little background. About 3 years ago, he began mentioning a colleague, she was the bees knees, great at her job, funny etc. Then he stopped mentioning her. So I snooped on both his work and personal phones. A few selfies from her on different occasions asking him to meet for drinks when she was staying in our area. Some flirty type messages from her, not reciprocated by my husband, but not shot down either. Then on one occasion they were away training, overnight gig, with dozens of other colleagues. Yet she messaged him asking did he fancy drinks. So they went for drinks and dinner alone. He was honest about it, couldn't see the issue. My problem was, to me it was obvious she was making advances, he said he genuinely didn't see it. He agreed moving forward to be more aware of things that could impact our marriage.
> 
> ...


No, you are not being crazy. He is getting close emotionally to another woman. How far it has gone is hard to tell. But one bad sign is that he has stopped talking about her. Meaning, he is now hiding anything about her from you directly to avoid suspicion and conflict. Also, totally does not matter that she is in a different department. They can talk whenever, be that on work IM messaging, on the work phone, or meeting in person anytime. Office flings happen all the time. In reality it is hard to have just a friendship with the opposite sex. This is because one person always has or develops feelings, even if the other may not have. Even though your husband may not think of her in that way, he shouldn't confide in her about personal things. If he doesn't work in the same department as her anymore, then there shouldn't be a need for regular conversation. I wouldn't be afraid to put the kibosh on it. If he gets defensive just ask him how would he feel if you had a male friend you spoke to every day instead of him?


----------



## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

If she ASKS him to quash the relationship, she’s messing up. He won’t. 
She can only demand it in a way that he understands she will walk if he doesn’t. 
OP, if you are unwilling to walk if he doesn’t, you’ll be getting this type of bs for the rest of the relationship with him. This is definitely a hill to take a stand on. It’s either you or her. He can’t have both. Well, he can’t unless you allow it, in which case he can, as he does now.


----------



## bff (Jul 24, 2012)

Hurt and confused 39 said:


> He used to tell me all about the details of his work day, not so much anymore, it's as if he's already done that with someone else... her I'm guessing.


When I was recording the phone calls to the OM made during my XW's commute time, the conversations were always this ^^^ - them chit-chatting about their day. What struck me was the familiarity and ease they had with each other. A familiarity that only comes from intimacy.

If he's made her his "primary" outlet for discussing the in's and out's of his day, this should be a massive red flag for you. This is the definition of an emotional affair, and even if it hasn't or even doesn't get physical, it's taking his attention and interest away from you. And as his spouse, you deserve to be the primary.

bff


----------



## A18S37K14H18 (Dec 14, 2021)

Talker67 said:


> yes, that is a simple biological effect. a man and a woman working in close quarters with each other are fairly likely to be attracted to each other.


That isn't true. Simply just working in close quarters with a person of the opposite sex does not mean they will become attracted to each other.

I've worked closely with some real POS, azzholes, some who were beyond ugly (inside and out) and just because I worked in close quarters with them didn't cause me to become attracted to them.

The way you stated what said makes it sound like it's some law or rule and that it has to happen and will happen and that isn't the case.

Adults have agency, choice etc. We can't say "I worked closely with ABC and XYZ, so of course I became attracted to them."

You're stating it like it's something that happens to them instead of it being something they choose and allow to happen.

We all know cheating isn't a mistake, it's a decision, usually hundreds, if not more, of decisions made over and over, over a long period of time.

It seems like you're saying none of us can stop ourselves from becoming attracted to someone if we work in close quarters with someone of the opposite sex. I don't subscribe to that.

Does that happen to many folks? Yes, it does, but it's not automatic, it's not biological that it will happen.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> That isn't true. Simply just working in close quarters with a person of the opposite sex does not mean they will become attracted to each other.
> 
> I've worked closely with some real POS, azzholes, some who were beyond ugly (inside and out) and just because I worked in close quarters with them didn't cause me to become attracted to them.
> 
> ...


Maybe it means one will usually be attracted, and this is how it starts. not always both?


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

A18S37K14H18 said:


> That isn't true. Simply just working in close quarters with a person of the opposite sex does not mean they will become attracted to each other.
> 
> I've worked closely with some real POS, azzholes, some who were beyond ugly (inside and out) and just because I worked in close quarters with them didn't cause me to become attracted to them.
> 
> ...


i obviously never said any of that.

working closely with other sex people, assuming there is something there worth getting attractid over, you are going to get attracted.


----------



## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Hurt and confused 39 said:


> Good morning everyone. Just looking for some advice please. My husband seems to be developing a close relationship with a female colleague. A bit of background, they were both managers in different parts of the country, she got promoted to a different position in Nov last. Up until recently he would never really mention her. They worked together on a project before Christmas, there was a case of mentionitis, which made my radar go up. There was a company conference in early December, my husband stayed overnight. He rang me the next morning to say he was going to pop into the head office just for an hour before making the long commute home. No word from him that morning and he ended up staying in head office until after lunch. Turns out he had lunch alone with her, but told me he was meeting a male colleague. I only know he lied because I had a feeling and checked his work phone, low and behold a message from her organising lunch together. Why the need to lie you may ask.
> 
> Well a little background. About 3 years ago, he began mentioning a colleague, she was the bees knees, great at her job, funny etc. Then he stopped mentioning her. So I snooped on both his work and personal phones. A few selfies from her on different occasions asking him to meet for drinks when she was staying in our area. Some flirty type messages from her, not reciprocated by my husband, but not shot down either. Then on one occasion they were away training, overnight gig, with dozens of other colleagues. Yet she messaged him asking did he fancy drinks. So they went for drinks and dinner alone. He was honest about it, couldn't see the issue. My problem was, to me it was obvious she was making advances, he said he genuinely didn't see it. He agreed moving forward to be more aware of things that could impact our marriage.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm just an old fogie but I just don't see any justification for her sending him selfies. I mean I could understand if it was a vacation photo or something like that but not just an everyday selfie. That does seem flirtatious and they are talking a lot. I mean maybe he has some interest in talking to her because she is a counterpart at their job. But I don't think you're unreasonable to be suspicious.


----------



## Luckylucky (Dec 11, 2020)

Who is initiating the contact, and what are his replies like? Some people are really forceful and just don’t get it. We have a married male neighbour who has been overly friendly to me.

He just does not get it, and I’m quite firm in declining offers of help, chats, dinner at his family’s house etc. I never invite him in when he hangs around. It is very clear to both my husband and I that he’s here to talk to me. I politely talk, and then direct him to where my husband is, ‘say hi to your wife, hubby is in the garage/back/out front’. But he then goes straight home. So it may be that these types of women just have a screw loose, and won’t let up. And if he tries, you can bet they’ll hound him with, ‘why don’t you reply? Why can’t you come? Why didn’t you comment on my selfies? What’s wrong? You haven’t texted me, why why?’ They’re usually like this with everybody.

The difference between me and your husband though, is that as soon as my husband pointed out that this neighbour had some motives, I said, ‘yes I agree, I can see it!’. And we became a team, and communicate. But your husband is saying he just can’t see it when you voice a concern. Ahh come on mate. I can see it. 😏


----------



## redmarshall (11 mo ago)

There is a part of males I guess which is sucseptible to appreciation from the other sex. Guys also don't have a filter or the self awareness to understand that there was a time when doing these things with their prospective wives(at one point in time) was fun too. I guess the appeal never goes away, having females attention is intoxicating in more ways than one. However I do agree that what counts is communication, open it up and unpack it. Try and be accepting(I know its not). But this is the only way.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

so this kind of hinges on the whole "are people of the opposite sex able to be friends, without cheating"?

i used to go out with my coworkers, especially for lunch time. I worked in a high tech field, where the day was spent doing high level calculations on computer screens. by lunch time, we needed some distraction, like going out to a local chinese restaurant, or something. especially at the end of the week.

Usually, to be honest, it was at least three of us, sometimes more, but it was not unusual to have men and women mixed in. and i never saw any "flirting" going on.

So there might be an honest explanation for hubby's behavior.


----------



## re16 (Oct 9, 2012)

Is it 100% that men and woman can't be friends in a platonic way, definitely not - many instances of this happening without an affair.... BUT, affair partners being co-workers is probably the most common way affair partners meet.

Once a spouse starts telling lies about their interactions with a specific co-worker of the opposite sex, something is wrong. In this case, it is clear something is up.


----------



## Talker67 (Apr 7, 2016)

re16 said:


> Is it 100% that men and woman can't be friends in a platonic way, definitely not - many instances of this happening without an affair.... BUT, affair partners being co-workers is probably the most common way affair partners meet.
> 
> Once a spouse starts telling lies about their interactions with a specific co-worker of the opposite sex, something is wrong. In this case, it is clear something is up.


telling lies DOES imply nefarious goings on.


----------



## teutonic_metal (12 mo ago)

Talker67 said:


> telling lies DOES imply nefarious goings on.


^^^ this. This stinks of more going on. I am sorry you're going through this issue. Lying and selfies, going out for drinks. All red flags he is cheating. It's definitely an emotional affair which is cheating. A marriage, you take vows to love, honor, and cherish each other until the day you die. He is not doing that now. Someone said earlier this is your "hill" to die on. That is a reference to last stand in battle no matter the outcome. Well it's true in this case. Your cause is righteous and just, you are a good person and obviously cherish your marriage. You deserve better. I know they're a lot of emotions going on but he needs to committ to you or you need to get out. There is no telling how many times this has happened and will continue to happen. If it's any consolation, I am going through something similar but she filed for divorce against me. A lot of people are in the same boat. If he decides to come back around and stop go to a therapist, priest, etc. If not then you need to think about you.


----------



## JLCP (Aug 18, 2021)

re16 said:


> Sorry you are here.
> 
> There will be huge temptation to call him on these things you find, DO NOT DO IT, yet.... false confrontations without hard evidence drive things further underground, they just cover their tracks better.
> 
> ...


This!!! I deeply regret not doing this when my husband was having an EA, possibly a physical affair. I really wish I knew what he was saying to her. I confronted him with my knowledge about the lengthy conversations, but stayed for the kids. Now my kids are grown and I can make the decision best for me. But, I do not have the facts. I don’t like making a decision without the facts.

record the conversations so you know the truth. Quit confronting him as it will make him more cautious and then you will never know the truth.

I think about how well I am able to judge people I know, how committed they are to their relationship, and be able to discern if they live their lives with morality. I get this info from listening and watching them when they are not on guard. Then I think about who the person I married truly is. Because I did not record him, I will never be certain I have correctly surmised him/ his actions as I was not able to objectively observe him when he was not on guard. You have definite reasons to believe he is not the person you thought he was. Beyond the likelihood that he probably has cheated is the knowledge of just what kind of person he is. Knowing what kind of person he is will allow you to objectively evaluate your life with him and what the future likely holds with a life with him. 

Please don’t waste many years like I did. Do not confront him. Record him instead and get the truth of what type of person he is. Then you can confidently make a good decision for your future without wondering if you are just imagining things that he denies and makes you feel crazy. Get the truth and then no one can tell you that you are imagining things, give him a chance, etc. you can make a decision with eyes wide open and confidently know you are making that decision based on facts. Even if you find he cheated/ is a serialcheater and you decide to stay, knowing the facts now can help you better prepare a way out if needed.


----------



## bricks (Aug 14, 2017)

It sounds EXACTLY like things my husband did, down to the talking about colleagues like they are male when they are female.

In my opinion:
You husband is seeing what he can get away with. He WANTS the attention of other women and is seeking it out in increasingly aggressive and secretive ways. One reply called them dates and that is exactly what they are. Dates. Your husband is setting up dates. Would he characterize them as such? No, he would not. He has convinced himself that he deserves the attention or the thrill is harmless. YOU HAVE TO CORRECT THAT PERCEPTION.

I went round and round with my husband, just as you are, spying and confronting in a unsatisfying, frustrating cycle. He became more and more secretive and me more and more suspicious. He was a child who wanted to do what mommy said he could not.

One day, I calmly sat him down. I explained that there was a man in a group I was active in. I explained I had asked him to lunch....that I had lied to him (my husband) and said I had lunch with "Susan". I basically described all his shennanigans but said that I had done them toward another man. This was, of course, all a lie. I had come to a point where I needed to know if my husband even gave a crap if I were behaving as he was. No amount of discussion up to that point had changed his behavior except to make him more secretive. My god. My husband was shocked. He was shaking. I asked him to describe how he felt. He said he felt hurt, betrayed, insecure, unsure....etc. I asked him if he thought it was all harmless. I told him I was just friends with the guy. I thought it WAS harmless! Would he continue in our marriage if I continued to do what I had been doing? All the questions I had asked myself about his behavior. This went on for a bit. I then confessed that I had taken exactly what he had done and said I had done it. I explained that all he felt, I had felt for months, years. 

Some may say that this was manipulative. I certainly would never condone this as anything but a Hail Mary. I had, literally for years, attempted to do something about his hurtful behavior. It worked for the most part. My husband, in the conversations following this, admitted a lot of things that really hurt me. He changed his behavior, but what I have learned is he is a secretive guy, and I have learned why. The bottom line is, my husband knows I won't have that conversation again.


----------

