# Unreasonable Expectations?



## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

I will try to keep this as short as possible...

My wife of 2 1/2 years are currently in a situation where we have to spend part of the year in a long distance relationship due to my work. Last time we were together, I bought us a motorcycle to make running errands and going places easier for us. I actually purposely bought a small motorcycle that she can fit on, instead of buying the motorcycle i wanted, in hopes she would get use to riding the motorcycle while i was gone in order to make her life easier.

Well she did just that and got a license and then ended up joining a motorcycle enthusiast group specific to the make/model of what I had bought. The group is of course all guys and being a member involves organized meetings and rides, most of which are far away. 

The first time she met up with the group, I was working on a weekend. I couldnt get a hold of her and assumed she had been home already sleeping. She had planned to meet up with these people in the afternoon at a public location they had pre selected. When i finally heard from her at 2am, she told me that the guys had just left our house and that there had been a total of 10-12 of them there. I still remember the feeling of being absolutely shocked that this had been going on while i was at work thinking she was sleeping. 

What i felt made it so much worse was literally only a day or two earlier, she had gotten in to a fight with her brother and he had moved out. He was supposed to be living with her while I was gone so that she is safe and not alone. After he moved out, I specifically told her to not invite anyone at all over to the house except for family and to never tell anyone that you are living alone by yourself. The large group of males ended up in my house until 2am the next day. I was very pissed off as i saw this as completely ignoring what we had agreed upon. This was actually a first for our relationship.

She was excited to be part of the group and make friends, so against my better judgement i backed down and allowed her to become part of the group based on her agreeing to a list of my expectations. I made this list to avoid future arguements since the first was so big.

No overnight, back home not late
Not overly far (see above)
Not in bad weather (wet roads)
No visitors/guests to our house
No visiting others residence (public group meetings/rides only)
Not when I have to work in the morning 
72 hours notice min (the more the better)
No drinking alcohol at all
Not with others drinking alcohol
Always wear safety gear
Let me know of any inappropriate behavior towards you (include name)
-asking you to hookup in anyway despite knowing you are married (no respect for our marriage)
-inappropriate touching (ex. grabbing ass, frequent arm around you)
Always message me when you are not riding
Don't give out any phone numbers

The second meeting she went to, she was supposed to be back between 10-12pm but ended up getting home after 2am and didnt message me while she was out like we had agreed on . Again we argued and i was mad, she said she was late because she did not know how to get home.

I will need to fast forward a bit to keep this from becoming a novel so I will not be able to mention every incident that has occurred although it is basically the same things happening over and over again. 

Over the next 2 months, accompanied by me getting upset of her failing to uphold parts of our agreement many times. I showed leniency and the agreement was basically reduced to just 1.no drinking 2. do not come home late at night 3. dont ride in bad weather.

Last weekend, after it had seemed to me we actually had an understanding (for an entire week or two), she then did all 3 of what is above. Riding home in the rain around 1 am after drinking (just 2 drinks) at one of the guys house's that the group was at. I tried to over look #2 and #3 but as soon as she told me she drank as well, then I got upset again. I warned her I will sell the motorcycle if it happens again as I'm tired of arguing about it over and over again every week.

This has been constantly occurring issue that we seem to always come to a understanding, everything is fine and then she does the same thing again the next week.

So yesterday she comes home after 2am, even with me messaging her since midnight to hurry up and come home. She said she was waiting to say hi to one of the group mates who as of 12:30am had not shown up yet. From about 10-12pm i was messaging her trying to talk her out of drinking as she had messaged me saying she was going to have a drink. When she got home I'm obviously pissed again and i told her I have made up my mind about selling the motorcycle. One of the last things she said to me was "I could of just not told you what I was going to be doing today"... my response was "You could of just not came home late. Simple."

She feels I'm being unreasonable and treating her as though she is doing something wrong (cheating), I tell her I dont think my expectations are unreasonable and although I DONT think she is cheating on me, she is doing something wrong by disregarding what she had agreed upon with her husband. 

This whole thing with this motorcycle has completely changed the flow of our marriage. We rarely had any big disagreements or arguments before this. Now suddenly we are arguing about basically the exact same thing at least weekly often resulting in us not talking to each other for a bit. 

Further complicating the issue is I know i have a strong expectation of my wife to listen to my wishes and this has never been a problem in the past for our relationship. I have tried explaining to her that regardless of what it is she has done to upset me, it is not so much the act of whatever she did itself that truly upsets me... Its the feeling that my wife does not listen to me or respect me enough to meet my expectations that is bothering me very deeply and leads quickly to my upset reactions of disappointment.

In the past I have not been controlling/protective at all of her and I realize in this situation that started recently, that I'm clearly being controlling/protective now. I also truly believe that my expectations from all our disagreements/arguments over this are NOT unreasonable.

For anyone who has taken the time to read this far, thank you.

I have posted this here to vent but more importantly I want 3rd party opinions if the problem here is in fact more with me and my behavior than the situation itself. I don't believe I'm being unreasonable with my expectations, though I'm at a loss now for an explanation as to why i have failed again and again to avoid our disagreements and arguments on this matter. My strategy from the start has been to make my expectations as clear as possible (over and over again now) in order to avoid an disagreement.

At this point I no longer no what to do. 

Any input is appreciated.

I would like to add one more thing: Part of what has me confused is I believe that she is not doing any of this with bad intentions of any kind. I truly don't believe she is cheating on me or purposely trying to upset me in any way. This makes it really confusing to understand why we cant stop disagreeing on this and makes me wonder if the problem is all me...


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## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

No, you are not being overly controlling. Your boundaries are logical and reasonable but she has chosen to blow those boundaries right out of the water.

Your real problem though is that you have continued to relax those boundaries as she keeps breaking them. Each time she ignores them, you keep back pedaling and re-drawing your line in the sand. You ease up and let her get away with more and more just to avoid fighting. She knows there are no real consequences to her behavior.

So give her a REAL consequence. Sell the motorcycle. In the meantime, hide the keys. Her riding days are over.

She has completely disrespected you. And it doesn't matter if her "intentions" are good. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## SlowlyGoingCrazy (Jun 2, 2011)

So you two are still long distance at this point or are you at home waiting for her when she is out?


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

I see a divorce in your future where she gets the motorcycle.

You can't control what she does. You can only control what you do in response. Do you believe she's just having fun, or do you think she's cheating? She has a right to have fun even if you don't like it, if she's not cheating. Your preferences are reasonable, but clearly she thinks they're overly restrictive. If she agreed and is ignoring the agreement - you know what to do.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

We are still apart and I'm about to return. Thanks for the input so far.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> I see a divorce in your future where she gets the motorcycle.
> 
> You can't control what she does. You can only control what you do in response. Do you believe she's just having fun, or do you think she's cheating? She has a right to have fun even if you don't like it, if she's not cheating. Your preferences are reasonable, but clearly she thinks they're overly restrictive. If she agreed and is ignoring the agreement - you know what to do.


I don't think she is cheating. I know she just wants a pass time for when we are apart. I understand that and thought the limits I set would be the compromise we could agree to. She did agree, many times.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

What are you.. her father? If my husband told me what I could or couldn't do in such a detailed manner, I'd tell him where he could go.


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## TBT (Dec 20, 2011)

My opinion is the OP is being pretty liberal with his wife considering she is the only female in the group of 10 to 12 men. Besides spending time on the open road,the group also socialize and drink at different houses. Being her husband,he has every right to be concerned. Maybe when he's home she can bring them all by and he can get to know them. Until then,they are just strange men to him.


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## sixty-eight (Oct 2, 2015)

It seems you are at a crossroads.

You ban or sell the motorcycle. or hide the keys and park it in a non mutual friends garage when you are out of town. If she's determined to ride with friends, this may not stop her. You can ride two people on a bike. She may no longer keep you informed if she feels like she deserves to be able to do what she is doing.

When you get home, you could go with her. Send a clear message about belonging exclusively to each other and what you will tolerate to the rest of the group, verbally and/or non verbally. I wouldn't want my SO in a club with mostly members of the opposite sex, but if she's making friends with mostly other stable couples, that feels less threatening.

you can go over the rules for when you are gone again and put her to an ultimatum. discuss what will happen if she breaks the mutual rules (separation, sale of the bike, banned from the bike while you are out of town) Be prepared to put your foot down if this happens. no more warnings.

i'm sure there are other things that might happen. But if she really wants this, then you can't really stop her. All you can control is your reaction. Time to give up the argument, strategize, or give up the marriage.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

This is ridiculous. There are enough red flags to outfit a communist party convention.
1. Inviting a large group of male motorcyclists over for a sleepover.(!)
2. Disappearing without contact for many hours.
3. Promising not to do a number of risky things, then breaking that promise.

I assume you don't have children, because you didn't mention how they were being cared for.
The only solution is for you to divorce her so she can play single party girl on her own dime.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

Can you tell us why you don't think she's cheating on you despite the Peoples Liberation Army parade marching by in front of your eyes?


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Why is she the only female in the group? Who are the other guys? Do they have wives/partners? This can't be innocent. I'm not saying that she is cheating -- yet -- but the other members of the group may think she is looking for some type of thrill because what married woman in her right mind would invite 10 men over at night?!?!

You're not overreacting.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

Happy as a Clam is spot on. 

Additionally, in case you weren't aware there are womens motorcycle groups around (that are women only) - she could join instead. Something tells me that would be no better though, as your wife does not respect boundaries.

I have a motorcycle and was often asked by men to 'come out riding' - like it was so innocent! (e.g. when buying a battery or parts at the auto shop). I doubt they're interested in platonic friendships, they like having women around to flirt with, show off in front of - and the motorbike is an excuse to hang out - nothing more (i.e. I doubt they respect her as a biker, women are often objectified accessories in that scene).

Because you are far away, you're probably best to sell the bike as she clearly can't control her impulses to hang around these men. Who knows, she may still see them though, as a pillion on the back of one of their bikes. And now that she is into that kind of attention and socialising, she may just seek it elsewhere. She may have lost respect for you for not enforcing your boundaries. There's deeper problems going on.


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## Nynaeve (Jun 19, 2013)

OP is too controlling AND his wife is partying too much. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. 

She's rebelling because he's treating her like a child. She's passively aggressively asserting her independence.

Sell her motorcycle and chances are one of the men in her club will buy her a new one.

My advice would be to quit trying to make rules for your wife. Set boundaries, sure. But quit trying to get her to obey your rules. That's not going to happen.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Spotthedeaddog (Sep 27, 2015)

Married but Happy said:


> I see a divorce in your future where she gets the motorcycle.
> 
> You can't control what she does. You can only control what you do in response. Do you believe she's just having fun, or do you think she's cheating? She has a right to have fun even if you don't like it, if she's not cheating. Your preferences are reasonable, but clearly she thinks they're overly restrictive. If she agreed and is ignoring the agreement - you know what to do.


If she's using shared resources, or abandoning/risking family time or assets, then no she doesn't have that right.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm guessing here, but the fight she had with her bother might be more about what she is becoming and who she is hanging out with more then anything else. It might be safe to say the brother doesn't like his sisters new life style.
You might want to talk to the brother and get his side of things.

Hiring a PI might get you a lot of answers to your questions!


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

HeartbrokenW said:


> What are you.. her father? If my husband told me what I could or couldn't do in such a detailed manner, I'd tell him where he could go.


Yeah, your expectations are completely reasonable, if she were your teenage daughter. But she isn't. She's a grown woman. If you think her actions are unreasonable, all you can do is rationally explain your position and watch her reaction.

You said you were due to come home soon? See what her behaviour is after you are present in her life again. Right now, she's getting company and keeping busy while you are away. If she still wants to behave the same way even when you ARE home, that's another story. Especially if you don't feel welcome to join her.

And maybe she does have issues with rebellion and pushing boundaries and a lack of regard for her personal safety. These would be manifest in other ways as well, not just with the motorcycle group, and laying down rules like she was a child will not change her.

I suspect you feel that because it was YOU who introduced her to riding motorcycles, that this entitles you to have authority about its role in her life. This is not the case.


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## saubryn (May 12, 2015)

I'm the only female in a group of guys and I go out and socialise with them without my husband a lot and he's fine with it as long as I respond to text messages. He's even fine with overnight stays. BUT he's met most of the men and he trusts them. I can understand you freaking out at your wife inviting 12 strange men home while you're away!

I was reading the OP thinking that maybe you should go on a ride with these guys, see if they're as welcoming to you and put your mind at ease that it's just a bunch of motorbike nerds. 

Then I got to the bit where she rode home drunk and went WHAT THE EXPLETIVE???

I don't drive or ride. Last time I was out late with my group of guy friends I had a huge quantity of cash with me that I was supposed to give to the club chairman. He was unable to make the meeting. One of the guys found out that I was nervous about walking to the bus station late at night with a massive quantity of cash in my bag. He was super-apologetic that he couldn't drive me all the way home, but he did drive me right to the bus stop and wait there to make sure I got on the bus OK, then messaged me on Facebook to make sure that I got home alright. It's things like that which are why my husband is absolutely fine with me hanging out with that particular group of men.

Surely one of the guys could have helped her get home (gave her a pillion on her own bike or something)? 

Even assuming it's innocent, she's not cheating, she's a little over-enthusiastic about having freedom and wheels for the first time and is being thoughtless in a non-malicious way about your feelings, driving home AFTER DRINKING when it's wet and she's probably tired from a long day is not safe. That's what I'd be driving home to her.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

TBT said:


> My opinion is the OP is being pretty liberal with his wife considering she is the only female in the group of 10 to 12 men. Besides spending time on the open road,the group also socialize and drink at different houses. Being her husband,he has every right to be concerned. Maybe when he's home she can bring them all by and he can get to know them. Until then,they are just strange men to him.


Its actually a group of over 100 men and there is usually anywhere from 6-12 (or more at large meetings) at a time. There are a few regulars that are most often part of the turn out.. I think these ones are generally the ones who live closest to us.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Omego said:


> Why is she the only female in the group? Who are the other guys? Do they have wives/partners? This can't be innocent. I'm not saying that she is cheating -- yet -- but the other members of the group may think she is looking for some type of thrill because what married woman in her right mind would invite 10 men over at night?!?!
> 
> You're not overreacting.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I guess it is all male because majority of motorcycle riders are male. More specifically, the model of sportsbike I bought is considered a "mans" bike where we live. Women generally only ride scooters if they ride at all. Its also a brandnew "2nd year of a redesign" and is one of the better looking affordable sports bikes in the country which further leads to the male dominance of the group. There are occasionally other females as back rides (girl friends) that join them but we are literally talking she goes to the large general meeting for all club areas (there are many smaller clubs across a large metro area that make up a larger club) and there might be 1 or 2 other girls there. She tells me the other girls, if there are any, usually don't talk to her and seem jealous of all the attention she gets from the guys. My wife is the only legit (there were requirements to become "legit") female member of the group... 119 legit members and over 2000 prospects according to their facebook page. All male. My wife actually does not qualify to be a "legit" member as the motorcycle ownership is in my name and that is basically the first requirement of membership. The guys obviously were willing to make an exception for her..


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> Can you tell us why you don't think she's cheating on you despite the Peoples Liberation Army parade marching by in front of your eyes?


My wife grew up in a very sheltered life and in general has never been the type of person to want to go out and meet up with groups of people. This behavior is generally new to her and I feel her sheltered life leaves her a little bit naive about what my concerns are of the situation and she sees it as just something to pass the time so she has a social life while I'm gone. Exactly why I don't think she is cheating is hard to put into words though its something I am confident of.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Nynaeve said:


> OP is too controlling AND his wife is partying too much. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
> 
> She's rebelling because he's treating her like a child. She's passively aggressively asserting her independence.
> 
> ...


I thought the boundaries are the rules? Or the rules are the boundaries? ... however you want to look at it.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

saubryn said:


> Surely one of the guys could have helped her get home (gave her a pillion on her own bike or something)?
> 
> Even assuming it's innocent, she's not cheating, she's a little over-enthusiastic about having freedom and wheels for the first time and is being thoughtless in a non-malicious way about your feelings, driving home AFTER DRINKING when it's wet and she's probably tired from a long day is not safe. That's what I'd be driving home to her.


The other guys are all drinking, much more than her. The particular occurrence that you are referring to, my wife had 2 drinks. The most recent disagreement that happened this saturday night was actually a group meeting that was happening friday night but got interrupted because a group member on the way there got into an accident and had to go to the hospital because he was riding drunk.

I've also focused on the safety issue of it. She recently agreed not to go out on the motorcycle when its raining any more but the amount of broken agreements to this point has me skeptical if it means anything.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

I think part of the reason I have been upset is because 2 years ago I married a girl who didn't like going out all the time period and repeated told me if she was ever acting in a way I didn't like or doing something I don't want, that I should just tell her and she will stop because she loves me so much. Now shes acting the opposite of the girl I married and when I make clear what I think are my reasonable expectations for the situation, we still end up in argument after argument over the same thing.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

the guy said:


> I'm guessing here, but the fight she had with her bother might be more about what she is becoming and who she is hanging out with more then anything else. It might be safe to say the brother doesn't like his sisters new life style.
> You might want to talk to the brother and get his side of things.
> 
> Hiring a PI might get you a lot of answers to your questions!


The fight between her and the brother was about our dog choking on something that the brother had left out despite my wife telling him several times not to leave appealing things where the dogs can get to them (the dog is okay). She was very upset over the fact that her brother doesn't listen when she tells him things. Sounds oddly familiar...


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

You're not being unreasonable. She is hanging around all those men for the attention and ego-boosting. The fact that she mentioned other women are jealous of her confirms it. You are far away and she looses some or most of her male attention and goes out to replace it. You may be right that she is naive and doesn't fully "get it." You have to ask yourself now what you want to do about this. Do you love her, does she still love you and spend time with you when you are home? If you see a long-term future with her then maybe let her get this out of her system. Let her make mistakes and find out the hard way what kind of dangers she is putting herself in, and be there to pick up the pieces afterwards. Or if it's not worth it to you, then stick to your boundaries and if she still pushes it, leave her.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

smwia said:


> My wife grew up in a very sheltered life and in general has never been the type of person to want to go out and meet up with groups of people. This behavior is generally new to her and I feel her sheltered life leaves her a little bit naive about what my concerns are of the situation and she sees it as just something to pass the time so she has a social life while I'm gone. Exactly why I don't think she is cheating is hard to put into words though its something I am confident of.


Your confidence is misplaced. The parts I put in red don't make her less likely to cheat, they make her more susceptible to a player.

You need to have a pi follow her on one of these rides. Once you see the footage of how she's behaving while out drinking with her motorcycle club you'll change your tune.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Hopeful Cynic said:


> I suspect you feel that because it was YOU who introduced her to riding motorcycles, that this entitles you to have authority about its role in her life. This is not the case.


Actually the fact that it was me who introduced her to riding motorcycles only makes me have feelings of regret thinking about it and that something so simple seems to have been one of the worse decisions of my life.

Now the fact that it is 100% MY motorcycle and 0% hers may contribute to my desire for authority, but I still think that is only 1 of several factors affecting me.

And just for the record since divorce has been mentioned in the thread... we actually live in a country where she can not divorce me and take 50% of my stuff. That simply does not exist in the country's legal system.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

Nucking Futs said:


> Your confidence is misplaced. The parts I put in red don't make her less likely to cheat, they make her more susceptible to a player.
> 
> You need to have a pi follow her on one of these rides. Once you see the footage of how she's behaving while out drinking with her motorcycle club you'll change your tune.


I agree with your opinion. Thats what I mean about her being naive. Shes looking for friendship while the guy will have other intentions. Shes likely to even send out misinterpreted signals to the other party without realizing they have different intentions. It also does not help that she is sexy and stands out in a crowd even if it wasn't all guys.


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## smwia (Oct 3, 2015)

The overall impression I'm getting so far is that other than one or two very liberal women here, most seem to at least agree that my expectations are not unreasonable. For the record I married a self described "conservative" girl.


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## Cecezakat (Jun 20, 2015)

smwia said:


> The overall impression I'm getting so far is that other than one or two very liberal women here, most seem to at least agree that my expectations are not unreasonable. For the record I married a self described "conservative" girl.


She may be a conservative girl but that doesn't mean she isn't hungry for male attention. In fact her sheltered life may mean she never realized how much she enjoys being the center of attention in front of men drooling all over her. Her high from all the attention is leading her into riskier and riskier behavior. Not only is she now willing to risk her personal safety and that of others (drunk driver) but she is risking her marriage by being so disrespectful of her partner's feelings and by putting herself in vulnerable situations. 

Don't be so confident that she isn't cheating on you. It doesn't matter how much she is morally against cheating or how much she loves you. The situations she is putting herself into and her drive for male attention make it easy for her to end up cheating on you. Maybe she will find it exciting or maybe she will feel ashamed and try to stop it from happening again, but it's likely to have happened or happen soon. 

Hire someone to observe her in the group, even record her if possible and see for yourself what is really going on.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

OP, while I agree that your wife's involvement with this all male group is highly inappropriate, the way you're handling it is all wrong.

You're her husband, not her father. You cannot "allow" (or not) her to do anything. She is a grown woman. Punishing her by selling the bike, or taking the keys is how I would punish a teenage child, you can't do that to your wife.

What you CAN do, is decide what YOUR boundaries are (and believe me, in your shoes I'd have serious boundaries - having these men over to your house for sleepovers?? WTF??), make them clear to your wife, then enforce them when they are crossed.

That's the only way that she will take you seriously and knock off this completely inappropriate behaviour. It's outrageous! Why did she get married if she wanted to live like this??


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

If she's not cheating now then it won't be long before she is, IMO.

And, FWIW, I'd bet that she already is.


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## mmcm3333 (Sep 12, 2015)

I'm not sure how much you're not around, but I think it's probably safe to say she's lonely and very excited to meet new friends- it's probably been very hard for her when you're not around for long stretches of time. It's not fair to start jumping on the idea that she's cheating. If you were there, you might have both gotten involved with this group. She needs to have a social life- she probably would prefer you're there, but you're just not. She might be getting attention that you would normally give her if you were home and she's just lonely. No matter what, it doesn't mean cheating or doing anything wrong. It just means that you both should rethink how long this arrangement is really going to work- especially in a new marriage. The first 5+ years of marriage is really hard and you're just figuring each other out, working things out. Most of the people I know that are married a long time actually say it's between 5-10 years before you're really in a 'groove' (which explains why I've met so many people divorcing/divorced at 7-10 years). Being away for long periods is not the best for the marriage especially early on. 

I dated someone for a long time and it became a long distance relationship. I moved to a different state- in an area that my boyfriend and I agreed upon would work for both our careers. My boyfriend was supposed to move with me in a few months, but his grant changed and he started delaying his move (we expected to get married within a year). He had gotten me into bicycling years before, so when I moved, I wound up in a group that got together for rides. Before I started hanging out with them, I was alone most of the time in a new place. Suddenly, I was going out with these people (in groups), hanging at someone's house, at a bar, sometimes until very late. My boyfriend got me into this hobby- it was his thing and he was happy when I started getting into it. When I first met this group, he was enthusiastic about it. But once this became a social outlet and I was no longer just sitting at home waiting for him to call, he was suddenly annoyed. You can't have it both ways. He made decisions that kept him away longer. And I needed to have some kind of life while he continued to be away. I wasn't cheating on him or doing anything wrong- but it did start to create distance over time because I was starting to develop a life that he wasn't part of. And when he was around, he was so suspicious about the men in the group that it eventually created a problem and it was uncomfortable to include him in activities when he was around. It was like he expected me to do nothing but wait for him, not have a life without him, but he kept doing what he wanted, justifying it because of his career, which kept us apart. That's just not fair. I just got sick of the distance, the questions- why I hadn't called back, why wasn't I home at this time, what was I doing, why did I mention this or that guy, etc. Years later, long after we broke up, he told me his biggest mistake was he could have made different decisions that could have allowed us to be together. Maybe it meant less money, maybe it meant less (or different) opportunities, maybe it meant longer times between promotions, but the relationship should have come first. He realized that because he wasn't there, that's what killed our relationship and it was all because of his choices.

I think a few of your rules are okay. Safety first, of course. Some of your rules are based on your insecurities (like 72 hours notice, name a man that's inappropriate, messaging when she's not riding). Some of your rules are very controlling- distance to visit someone, allowing visitors, allowing her to go to someone's house, not getting home late. You sound like a parent and she's not a child. She's an adult. You're trying to control her activities when you're just not around. That's just not right or appropriate and will probably create resentment at some point and backfire. 

My husband and I have been married 5+ years and we both travel for work. We know the inherent boundaries and we trust and respect each other enough that we don't need a long list of rules. If something happens on either end we don't like, we just talk about it. I typically travel more than he does and there are many occasions I'm out past 2am with clients/co-workers. He doesn't freak out- he trusts me and knows I'd tell him if something happened...and vice versa. My husband is leaving for a few weeks tomorrow and neither of us had to talk about 'rules'. We'll talk on the phone when possible, text when possible, but if we can't get hold of each other, we just talk when we can, no worries. He knows I'll go out while he's gone and he'll go out, too. However, if one of our jobs meant being away more than being home, we'd draw the line and consider moving or changing jobs. We both understand the marriage comes first and have a limit on the amount of time we're willing to be away.

If it's such a big problem, change jobs and be home. Find a way to be together- otherwise, let her have fun and let her have a life in your absence. If you don't like it and do nothing to change your circumstances, realize it's your problem not hers.


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

frusdil said:


> OP, while I agree that your wife's involvement with this all male group is highly inappropriate, the way you're handling it is all wrong.
> 
> You're her husband, not her father. You cannot "allow" (or not) her to do anything. She is a grown woman.  Punishing her by selling the bike, or taking the keys is how I would punish a teenage child, you can't do that to your wife.
> 
> ...


I agree with most everything you've said, but she's overstepping the boundaries since the beginning - causing big arguments every time. You said he should enforce the boundaries, but how? He can't force her to pick up the phone or not have a drink. 

Being a member in an all-opposite sex social club is inappropriate from the get-go, I think - UNLESS there are agreed conditions which the spouse respects, and it is discussed before hand. I would be peeved if my H went and joined a social club full of women without even discussing it, like what the hell?? (I thought I read in thread that she joined the club without a discussion, I may be wrong). It's basically like getting a big group of 'just friends' of the opposite sex, and spending quality alone time bonding with them - it's a disaster waiting to happen unless the marriage is super solid and things are kept 'professional' not personal. 

I'm not sure how he could enforce his boundaries, because she doesn't respect his wishes!

_Unless_ he sells the bike. It's his bike, he has a right to decide how it's used and what for - she disregards this so I think he has a right to sell it. This would be pointless though if he doesn't follow up with serious work on the marriage to reestablish their bond as it was. OP - I would consider moving back home, before you lose her for good. She seems to be in party mode.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

HeartbrokenW said:


> What are you.. her father? If my husband told me what I could or couldn't do in such a detailed manner, I'd tell him where he could go.


No way in h*ck I would tolerate my W drinking at other mens houses every week. Not acceptable and if she continues = D. You to have boundaries.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

frusdil said:


> OP, while I agree that your wife's involvement with this all male group is highly inappropriate, the way you're handling it is all wrong.
> 
> You're her husband, not her father. You cannot "allow" (or not) her to do anything. She is a grown woman. Punishing her by selling the bike, or taking the keys is how I would punish a teenage child, you can't do that to your wife.
> 
> ...


they have boundaries, but she won't abide by them. Right there on page 1.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

She does seem to care about any of the boundaries she agreed to and seems to only want to recklessly party with other guys.... till 2am several times!? This goes far beyond the motorcycle, if you sell it, she will find other ways to party with other guys while you are away. There's really no way to trust her and she's shown you that on several occasions.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

OP,

As a woman, I find your wife's behavior very inappropriate. It's OK to have hobbies & friends but not when you are disrespecting your husband & your marriage by pushing boundaries in the way that she is.

You mention that you have a job that requires travel & that's how this motorcycle thing started. Now that you are seeing how your wife is acting, it looks like to me your wife needs attention. When you're married, you have to put your marriage first....maybe it's time you find a job that doesn't require so much travel, if any. Even if it means less pay with new employment, your wife & marriage need your attention now.

When you're traveling for work, it's hard to enforce boundaries & actually be present for your marriage/wife.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Can't help but wonder how she would feel if the shoe was on the other foot. I got a feeling that she wouldn't be a very happy camper being disrespected.

Sounds like the old give an inch and take a mile routine.


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## truster (Jul 23, 2015)

smwia said:


> The fight between her and the brother was about our dog choking on something that the brother had left out despite my wife telling him several times not to leave appealing things where the dogs can get to them (the dog is okay). She was very upset over the fact that her brother doesn't listen when she tells him things. Sounds oddly familiar...


Did you confirm this with the brother? I'm not 100% sure of any infidelity going on at this point, but when it does, there's plenty of lies about things like this.

I agree with the posters who are saying it's time to stop travelling so much. If it really is just a need to socialize while you're gone for so long, that will fix it. If it's more, being home is the only way to find out.

P.S. A country where wayward spouses don't get to run off with unearned marital assets? I know where I'm planning my next wedding..


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Idun said:


> I agree with most everything you've said, but she's overstepping the boundaries since the beginning - causing big arguments every time. You said he should enforce the boundaries, but how? He can't force her to pick up the phone or not have a drink.
> 
> Being a member in an all-opposite sex social club is inappropriate from the get-go, I think - UNLESS there are agreed conditions which the spouse respects, and it is discussed before hand. I would be peeved if my H went and joined a social club full of women without even discussing it, like what the hell?? (I thought I read in thread that she joined the club without a discussion, I may be wrong). It's basically like getting a big group of 'just friends' of the opposite sex, and spending quality alone time bonding with them - it's a disaster waiting to happen unless the marriage is super solid and things are kept 'professional' not personal.
> 
> ...


I agree she's been disregarding the boundaries, they're clearly not working - but selling the bike is like punishing a naughty child...it won't do the marriage any good.

The way she's behaving is completely and utterly inappropriate and has been from the get go...I know this, I agree with you all.

OP needs to have less boundaries and be prepared to enforce them if she continues to disrespect him and their marriage. Like - I don't want my wife hanging around groups of men, and having them over for sleepovers when I'm away. If this behaviour continues I will end the marriage.

Clear and concise. 150 bullet point boundaries list is't working. Maybe a short to the point one will.


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

frusdil said:


> I agree she's been disregarding the boundaries, they're clearly not working - but selling the bike is like punishing a naughty child...it won't do the marriage any good.


Not really like punishing a child, the bike was not a gift for her. He bought it for them both to use for economical reasons, she's using it to go partying and disrespect his boundaries on the use of the bike. It's not serving the purpose HE bought it for. It would do the marriage some good if he combines it with damage control. She won't be tempted to go see her biker friends without a bike, if hubby is also working on the marriage (hence the recurrent suggestions in the thread that OP moves back home). He has greater chance of closing this dangerous chapter of the marriage, if the bike is gone and they focus on each other.



> OP needs to have less boundaries and be prepared to enforce them if she continues to disrespect him and their marriage. Like - I don't want my wife hanging around groups of men, and having them over for sleepovers when I'm away. If this behaviour continues I will end the marriage.


The situation does seem serious enough for this kind of ultimatum, I agree.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

Idun said:


> He bought it for them both to use for economical reasons, she's using it to go partying and disrespect his boundaries on the use of the bike. It's not serving the purpose HE bought it for.


So flip the scenario and insert golf clubs for bike... if she buys him golf clubs so he can go golfing with his dad, and he decides to go golfing with his buddies, she should get all mad because "he's disrespecting his boundaries on the use of the golf clubs?" Puhleeeze!


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## samyeagar (May 14, 2012)

HeartbrokenW said:


> So flip the scenario and insert golf clubs for bike... if she buys him golf clubs so he can go golfing with his dad, and he decides to go golfing with his buddies, she should get all mad because "he's disrespecting his boundaries on the use of the golf clubs?" Puhleeeze!


A closer analogy would be if his wife bought him an unlimited VIP pass to a local strip club for him to go with his buddies after work occasionally, and instead, he ended up going with a new bunch of women, getting drunk with them, staying out late with them, sometimes spending the night with them, or bringing them home when she wasn't around. What could possibly go wrong?


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## Idun (Jul 30, 2011)

HeartbrokenW said:


> So flip the scenario and insert golf clubs for bike... if she buys him golf clubs so he can go golfing with his dad, and he decides to go golfing with his buddies, she should get all mad because "he's disrespecting his boundaries on the use of the golf clubs?" Puhleeeze!


Ridiculous comparison, sorry!

How about - she buys a laptop for them both to use, so they can do their banking and shopping online. Instead he mostly uses the laptop to join a website about laptops, where he 'friends' lots of women, keeps contacting them behind her back, and uses it to arrange meet ups and nights out drinking with said women.


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

You "agreed?" Everything you said came from you making a decision and insisting that she abide by it. THAT is not reasonable. Your whole approach suggests you are very controlling, whether you realize it or not.

If you don't think she's cheating, why all these rules? Why on earth tell a grown woman she cannot have other people to her home? Or what she can or cannot tell other people? You have treated her like she is a child who has no judgment, no idea of what is safe or what is risky. By demeaning her judgment, you've invited opposition.

I am not defending her either, however, b/c she should have told you what I just did. And then she could have said, "I have the judgment to take care of myself. Either you trust me or you don't, but that is your problem, not mine.

My guess is that she acquiesced to your demands to avoid conflict--hmmm, why might she do that? It's wrong of her--but what is your role in this? Do you listen to her generally, value her opinion? Or are you too busy stating what is good for the two of you and overriding her voice if she even ventures to suggest otherwise? This behavior can seem "good-natured," like, "Oh, honey, that's no big deal because blah, blah, blah." That's dismissive. Or maybe you are a real ass, getting worked up and yelling if she dares to have a thought you haven't pre-approved. Probably somewhere along that spectrum, however, is my guess, b/c no one writes out lists of rules alone and has any sense of their own domineering tendencies. 

This doesn't make you a bad person--just a flawed person. It does, however, mean you might be a really difficult husband. 

As always, I can be totally off the mark, but at the very least, you need to think about how you treat her, whether you trust her and, if you do, why you need to attempt to control her behavior. If she doesn't share your sense of what is "proper" for married couples, then either you go your separate ways or you find compromise--but demanding another person submit to your judgment about such things is just a recipe for a lot of future trouble.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

> A closer analogy would be if his wife bought him an unlimited VIP pass to a local strip club for him to go with his buddies after work occasionally, and instead, he ended up going with a new bunch of women, getting drunk with them, staying out late with them, sometimes spending the night with them, or bringing them home when she wasn't around. What could possibly go wrong?


 So true ! 

I'm sorry...not sure I'd even trust MYSELF in a situation like this.. the husband is never home, wife gets hungry for touch.. attention..... hanging out with a bunch of alpha males staying up late at night..add some drinking.. only a Saint could not fall into something here.. not to mention the intentions of some of these men -if she is a looker..

I am shocked the women here find this controlling.. seriously.. I don't find this husband controlling at all. .. if anything he has been far too lenient . 

Long distance relationships are hard enough.. they are a breeding ground for affairs... Let's get real here.


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