# Help, I'm absolutely Clueless right now



## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Okay, here goes. I travel for a living. In June I was gone for basically the whole month. I came home to find that my 31 year old wife of 7 years had had a 22 year old guy that she met from work (school teacher) come over to help my son with t-ball. then him and a female friend of ours had watched a movie, but when the female friend left, he stayed. I came home from my trip, found TONS of texts, and confronted her. Her and I went to counseling and I realized a lot of things that I was doing wrong. I can only be accused of not doing the dishes ENOUGH, or not doing ENOUGH laundry, or not spending ENOUGH time with the kids. I found out a lot of things, and started to make some changes. She agreed to shut off communication to "the kid". Then I had to go on another business trip. When I left, we hugged and kissed, and she told me to hurry back to we could go to the country fair and hang out in the beer garden! About halfway through my two week trip, I noticed a sharp change in the way she acted towards me. She told me she was going to a concert with a female friend, when in fact she went with "the kid". A personal friend of both of ours found an email that my wife had sent from his computer and told me about it, where my wife and the kid stated something about soulmates (not sure who said what), and my wife confessed to not being able to deal with the lies and deceit. When I found out about that email, I moved out of the house, and in with a friend. I found out last Sunday (August 8th) and tuesday had a realtor come look at the house, and thursday we went to mediation to separate our things, and it all went fine. But then, on friday afternoon, I had this weird feeling, and I felt guilty about not being there emotionally for her like she needed. My wife and I are both nice looking people, she's beautiful and exudes confidence. I am attractive, I think. "The kid" is 22, works at a grocery store, going to school, and has been described to me a looking like a "troll", and moderately overweight. I do not understand a thing about this. My wife asked me last sunday (august 15th) for 2 weeks of time off "from us". she is largely non-communicative about the whole thing. I don't know if she wants two weeks off to try to get her "S*%$" together for a divorce, or if she's going to try to make this work and needs 2 weeks to get her head in the right place. When i asked her pointedly (via text) "Is this you calling it quits?" she did not respond. We are amicable about things, visitation, financial stuff. I have been to counselors, and keep hearing the same thing, and that's probably what I'll get here, but who knows maybe someone will have something new to shed. 

My viewpoint, two weeks is nothing. I can do that. It pains me to sit back and deal with her basically ignoring me, but maybe she's trying to deal with what she did. We live in a small town where she is a school teacher, and the ramifications that she is going to have to deal with when she goes back to school (tomorrow aug 18th) could be significant. The other part of me thinks that 2 weeks could give "the kid" more time to work on her. 

All for now, back to work. Thanks in advance for any thoughts


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## willzy (Aug 4, 2010)

Why did you move out? She is having the affair not you. Go back to your home and if she wants a break she can move out. 

Sounds like you still love her, in which case get back there and start talking. You won't solve anything this way.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

She is shutting me down, we refuses to talk to me, much less look at me. I travel for a living, so I cannot be the one who stays in the house. I work an hour away, she works 4 minutes away! I leave before her for work, and get home after her. There is no way I could make her leave.


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## willzy (Aug 4, 2010)

my point still stands. you are making this too easy and convenient for her. tell her you are moving back. this shouldnt be a discussion, it is your home too and presumably you still have keys. just move back in and tell her you are still married and you want to work on making your marriage better. if she is unwilling to be in the same house as you then that is her choice but the onus is on her to make alternative living arrangements.

where does this kid live... dorm? shared student house? parents? i'll bet a break suddenly won't seem so appealing.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Okay, after reading a few other posts, this is what I am thinking of doing. I am going home tonight to visit with the kids. I am going to give her an ultimatum and stand up for myself. "You stop talking to this guy entirely, and open the communication between us, or I'm through and filing for divorce"

It's just so hard though, because we have two wonderful kids, and our marriage WAS good until she cheated. But the more I read about cheating spouses, the less faith I have in her making it work. She's a cheating spouse to the "T" with all the uncharacteristic lies, and deceit that she had never exhibited before.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

the kid lives in an apartment. my wife and him have mutual friends who are mostly college students. The only problem with me moving back in, is I'm living in a house with a woman who is having an affair with me and I'd rather live apart and go through the divorce. I'm just having a hard time calling it quits. She wants time, but won't tell me why.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

It sounds like she has virtually no guilt at all. Separate your finances, cut off her credit cards. If she wants a broke a$$ student instead of a husband, I can assure you that there are vast numbers of women out there more worthy of your love then her. They always affair down. I am sure the OM is a troll. Just stay strong and move forward.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Duration, you made a good point. If she felt guilt, she'd console me in some way, or tell me why it happened. After the initial shock of it all wore off, I tried to CONSOLE HER! and she was unresponsive. I'd hate to do something harsh, and give her an ultimatum, but basically if she doesn't accept this ultimatum there is nothing I can do further; "You cut off all contact with this kid, confess everything, or I go file for divorce tomorrow" 

I don't understand what she would need time for, unless she's planning divorce under her circumstances (she likes to be in control), or if she's trying to figure out if she wants to make it work or not. maybe she has cut the guy off, but she won't talk to me, so I don't know. I can't drag myself through this stuff for 2 weeks, plus that's giving her the advantage.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, I just called her and said that I'm willing to work, as long as she's willing to cut off all communication to "the kid" and she said "no" so looks like we're filing. It's actually easier KNOWING that it's going to happen, than to spend 2 weeks in limbo about it. It's also nice to know that it's not my fault


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Grateful said:


> Well, I just called her and said that I'm willing to work, as long as she's willing to cut off all communication to "the kid" and she said "no" so looks like we're filing. It's actually easier KNOWING that it's going to happen, than to spend 2 weeks in limbo about it. It's also nice to know that it's not my fault


Grateful, you are giving up way too fast. You are jumping past half a dozen steps you can take to save your marriage! Why should you roll over and play dead for an affair? You have kids involved! A divorce is more damaging to them than almost any other thing that can happen.

There are things you can do to get your real wife back. I am stunned that no one has pointed out to you that what you are going through is STANDARD behavior for a disloyal spouse. There is nothing new here, she is not acting in unexpected ways.

Not only that - but the chance of an affair actually working out is so slim that in essence, your wife is throwing away her marriage for a lottery ticket that MAY offer a million dollars!

Seriously. Do you want your marriage, or are you thrilled that it is over? 

If you are NOT happy about this, then SLOW DOWN. 

If you want to save your marriage, then there is work to be done.

Take a little time to adjust, and then settle in for the work you need to do to save your marriage. It can be done. And it starts by looking at reality.

A: read this article on WHY affairs happen.

B: read this article on what to do now that you've found out about an affair.

C: Take time to find out how to take deliberation steps to save your marriage.

Don't give in so easily!

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Now playing: Haydn - Symphony No. 98 in B flat major - 3 - Menuetto e Trio (Allegro)
via FoxyTunes


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Pete,

Thanks for your words. That's why I came on this site to hear from people like you. After seeing how my wife has reacted to my ultimatum, I saw a new side of her. She only mentioned the equity in the house, and what we were going to do with it. I didn't include the counseling that we went to for 6 sessions (where she nodded her head and lied)

Nothing I have said has cemented anything yet, but this is what SHE wants. If I thought that it was in her to love me again, I'd work on it. I have 2 sets of close friends, who went through affairs and got through it, but they communicated. She isn't even doing that. I gave her an ultimatum expecting her to freak out, and she said "Nope". I will read the article about WHY affairs happen, I've already read the one about what to do now that you've found out about an affair (and I had already done it all!) and the saving the marriage article, I can't imagine that'd be worth anything to me at this point. I'm the one calling and setting up the counselor appointments, I'm the one talking to my minister about what "I" did ....... 

Pete, thank you.


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## BuddyL33 (Jul 16, 2009)

Grateful said:


> Pete,
> 
> Thanks for your words. That's why I came on this site to hear from people like you. After seeing how my wife has reacted to my ultimatum, I saw a new side of her. She only mentioned the equity in the house, and what we were going to do with it. I didn't include the counseling that we went to for 6 sessions (where she nodded her head and lied)
> 
> ...


My marriage is in a similar boat in the fact that my wife wants to leave me and I am the one trying to save it. She won't do anything to save it. Only states that we've tried it all. Even though all attempts before to fix the problems in our marriage have failed, neither of us have tried at the same time, nor have we had all the information we have now to work with. Hell I am the only one going to counseling.

Instead she's being selfish and unwilling to try. I don't want to be married to someone that doesn't want to be married to me. So I have shifted from trying to be a loving and caring husband, to a friend that just wants her out of my house ASAP so I can start healing.


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## willzy (Aug 4, 2010)

ignore all the questions you are asking yourself. 'how cld she do this' 'how cld i ever l get over it' 'why doesnt she feel guilty' 

those can be dealt with later.

only one question to answer right now:

'is the best long-term plan for me to have a happy loving marriage with my wife and keep my family together?'

if the answer is yes then just read more and don't make snap decisions. at the very least think about your wife here, she is on the verge of making a mistake she will regret for ever and you owe it to her and your children to try to stop that happening.

dont expect her to feel guilty, or show you any love, or be remotely rational. at the moment the kid is everything that's good and you are everything that's bad. that's because reality is not intruding for her.

take a step back, read as much as you can and start to think a bit more clinically about the steps you can take to influence the outcome. 

trust me on this. i was where you were only a few weeks ago. and now we are back together talking about how to make our future together better.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful said:


> Nothing I have said has cemented anything yet, but this is what SHE wants. If I thought that it was in her to love me again, I'd work on it. I have 2 sets of close friends, who went through affairs and got through it, but they communicated. She isn't even doing that.


She doesn't have to. You're just giving up and giving her what she wants - half your money and freedom.

Stop participating. If you want her, slow down, and take this step by step. You do NOT have to agree to a divorce!



> I've already read the one about what to do now that you've found out about an affair (and I had already done it all!)


So, you called the one most important person in her life, told them she's cheating, and asked them to talk to her? 

After you did that, and it didn't work (I assume, since you are divorcing already), you THEN called her parents, her siblings, her important other relatives, her best friends, her pastor, and her boss, and told THEM that she's cheating, and asked THEM to talk to her?

And after that, you called this KID's parents and told THEM that he's seeing a married woman?

So what happened in each of these cases?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Nothing I have said has cemented anything yet, but this is what SHE wants.


It would be really strange to hear someone who has 'found their soul mate' (as ridiculous a concept as that is...) and is actively pursuing the affair to argue that what they REALLY want is their soul mate to go away so they can be back with the person who is causing their misery! Of COURSE she wants this! The marriage is in the way of her 'happiness!' 

Pay no attention to this - her thinking is fogged to where she can't see anything correctly. You need to clarify YOUR thinking so that you can become a lighthouse to lead her back home - to a new home that has been changed to be more conducive to a healthy relationship.



> If I thought that it was in her to love me again, I'd work on it.


Love is action. She can love you again. In fact, the old feelings of like, lust, desire, happiness, etc., can even come back (they will if the marriage recovers.) 

It isn't that she _can't_ love you. Fact is, she _won't_ love you right now.

Pay no attention to this - it is a fog bound person talking to you.



> I have 2 sets of close friends, who went through affairs and got through it, but they communicated. She isn't even doing that.


Of course she isn't. You are not the focus of her life right now. You don't go about communicating with other women, do you? Your focus is her. When she turns back to facing you, you'll be able to communicate. 

Here's a little piece of advice: You CANNOT work on your marriage until the affair ends. Do NOT expect 'communication' (that is, work on the marriage) until the affair ends. You just won't get it. Right now, focus on ending the affair.



> I gave her an ultimatum expecting her to freak out, and she said "Nope".


More than likely, she will use the ultimatum to argue about how bad you are, and to justify her reason to have an affair. 

Step one is to gather evidence: you have that.

Step two is to confront. I am assuming that was your 'ultimatum'. However, if you read the article on the seven steps, you'll see that we advise you NOT to expect the 'ultimatum' to be received with joy. Your wife's response is typical. The reason you confront her and make the STATEMENT that you are aware of the affair - and are requesting that it end - is to set you on the track toward recovery by officially giving notice that the affair is known, understood, and un-desired. Nothing more. 



> I will read the article about WHY affairs happen, I've already read the one about what to do now that you've found out about an affair (and I had already done it all!) and the saving the marriage article, I can't imagine that'd be worth anything to me at this point.


So you read the seven steps - and decided that they can't possibly work for you.....

...because your wife is having an affair?

I don't get it - the PURPOSE of those seven steps is to wear the affair down until it becomes apparent that the marriage is by far a better choice - more moral, more comforting, more desirable.

Those seven steps are not designed to end an affair that is not happening! What would be the point of that?



> I'm the one calling and setting up the counselor appointments, I'm the one talking to my minister about what "I" did .......


That's all well and good - but it is also work on the marriage - which is ineffective until the affair ends.

As has been said: slow down. Calm down. And prepare yourself for a possibly long haul. If your marriage means anything to you, it is worth the effort.


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## lastinline (Jul 21, 2009)

Grateful, everything has a price, be it an object like a house or a car, or in this case a relationship. While it's a little more difficult to consult the "Blue Book" to get an appraised value on your marriage, intuitively you know when the values been exceeded.

Once exceeded, the next rational move is dissolution. Notice I didn't say it was easy. Just that it was rational. I am/was married for 19 years. The divorce is final in 2 or 3 weeks. What I was reminded of during this period is that it takes two people to want a relationship in order for it to work. One person trying to hold a marriage together is otherwise known as a martyr or a sucker. It depends on who you ask. 

Sadly, sometimes the only ones you can save is yourself and your family. Trying to make "sense" of this will only consume you. People sometimes do stupid things. I guess that's what makes them people. Trust me when I say there isn't an algorithm to solve this particular problem. 

God bless,

LIL


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

You guys are all very helpful in all of this, Thanks much to all of you. Turnera, I did read the article about what to do when you find out about an affair, but I disagreed with some of it. It's her decision to have an affair. I called her dad first, we met for coffee and I told him. He was pissed. Then I talked to her mom, she was devastated. I talked to the closest set of personal friends we have, they tried to contact her to no avail, she text them and told them it was a decision she had to make, and she would decide what was best.

I called me pastor, and he gave me the usual counsel about trying to make it work.

I don't think it is my place to call the kids parents, (he only has a mom, dad bailed I think), and I don't think it's my place to call her boss. That is over-stepping it a little in my opinion.

Willzy, you are a wise person, I can tell. I appreciate your advice. From a chat room perspective, what you're saying is spot on. I can't take living in my buddies basement, sending her money, paying half of everything, while she sits around and tries to decide whether or not she loves me while she's still seeing the other guy.

That is just morally wrong, and any person who would do that is in essence a bad person (not that I'm judging).

I have to stand up for myself, and tell her how it's going to be if she's going to stick with me. Otherwise, if I sit back and take this S%*& on the chin, she's going to know that she can use and abuse me as much as she wants.

I can walk over to the mirror right now, and look in it and say "I am the man, and father I want to be" 

I realize she is making a bad decision, and I've tried to support her, but when she gives no response and acts so coldly towards me, it's hard to accept, and I've decided NOT to accept it. 

It's been a crazy ride these last few weeks. Here's the kicker, she's only known the kid since around June 1st!


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

"the PURPOSE of those seven steps is to wear the affair down until it becomes apparent that the marriage is by far a better choice - more moral, more comforting, more desirable."

Why should I "wear" the affair down? If she can have attraction for another person in such a fashion, what makes me think she wouldn't do this in the future, or has seriously fallen out of love for me?


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Why should I "wear" the affair down? If she can have attraction for another person in such a fashion, what makes me think she wouldn't do this in the future..."


You say you have read the articles in question: but you are asking the questions they answer! You even say you disagree with them - but we are telling you - these things work, and there are specific reasons why the steps are there, in the order they come, and there are reasons why they work. 

If you did read the article evaluating WHY affairs start, then you can (hopefully) put two and two together to see that there are ways to make a marriage affair-proof. In fact, in most cases, a marriage that survives an affair - and works on recovery - becomes MUCH stronger.

There is no absolute guarantee that you can avoid this in the future - but the tools we offer here (and that you can find on other marriage sites - say, marriagebuilders.com) increase the chances of a good marriage incrementally.



> "...or has seriously fallen out of love for me?..."


The REASON affairs happen is because one spouse (or both) stop loving the other. _That's a given._ It happens in ALL affairs. This is not a special case, nor is it different than any other (besides the fact that you and your spouse are involved...)

_*BUT*_



> The only problem with me moving back in, *is I'm living in a house with a woman who is having an affair with me and I'd rather live apart and go through the divorce.* I'm just having a hard time calling it quits. She wants time, but won't tell me why.


Perhaps you sleeping around on her has something to do with it?

Look, you made a vow to her, she made a vow to you. Emotions are irrelevant: the vows are. You made a promise, she made a promise. Neither of you are keeping your word. Both of you lied to one another at the altar, eh?

Affairs, for the most part, do not last. All they do is destroy marriages, and then harm the people involved (kall it karma.)

My question: since you are having an affair, and want a divorce, why are you on this forum at all?

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Now playing: Eva Cassidy - Oh, Had I a Golden Thread
via FoxyTunes
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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Grateful said:


> ...*The only problem with me moving back in, is I'm living in a house with a woman who is having an affair with me and I'd rather live apart and go through the divorce. *I'm just having a hard time calling it quits. She wants time, but won't tell me why.


Hey folks did you miss this part? 

Grateful doesn't want to recover his marriage because he's having an affair of his own! He's just having a hard time killing his marriage and destroying his family. 

...So yeah just thought I'd point that out. :redcard: :banghead: :slap:


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I called her parents, I called my minister, I called several close friends. She is shutting everyone down according to what I've heard. I don't think I should call her boss, that would be over-stepping my boundaries. I will be offline for a while guys, but thanks for your advice. The fact remains, i have to hold myself together through all of this, and be able to look myself in the mirror and say "I am the man, and father I want to be". If I play into her affair, and give her attention, and put all this work in and she dismisses EVERY BIT of it, and continues to lie, why should I sit around and take it? I made me decision, I appreciate everyone's advice. I wrote her a note tonight, I will copy the test into the next post so you can read it. Thanks all


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Sarah,
At this point, I am in this for the kids. Nothing I said about doing this amicably has changed. I know there was a lot of emotion involved when I gave you that ultimatum and you declined it, but let’s please not lose sight of what’s most important.
I want to do this as easy, and quickly, and cheaply as possible. If it’s possible, I would like to have one lawyer draw everything up, based on our mediation, and submit it. I do not want/nor can I afford to “lawyer up” and try to start a fight. I had a conversation with Andy about that, he had a lawyer that wanted to fight for this and that, and in the end it wasn’t worth the money he paid to be fighting for small ****.
I am sorry that is went this way, I don’t understand things and I don’t think you do either. In a way, I am letting you go so that you can live the life that you feel I couldn’t provide anymore.
Sarah, for the love of our children, please keep your promise of making this ordeal as simple as possible. 
I am going to do everything I can to accommodate you living in the house, and I am even going to stay in the school district so that our kids can have as small of an affect as possible.
During my visitations, I am going to stay in the house since my name is still on the lien and I’m still making half the payment. 
I will not take a hit on the house, if you want to “buy out” my equity. I do not deserve any more sucker punches.
I will negotiate with you as much as you want, and as calmly as you will allow. 
In the interim, I will continue to pay half the mortgage, half the electric, half the water, my car and insurance, and the kids’ insurance premiums.
I am doing this all on trust that you will keep your promise to keep things amicable.
Emotions are high right now, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not let it affect the kids any more than it aleady has.

-	Jared


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What is it with guys coming here lately who are just ready to quit and give in without even trying to save the marriage? How is that honorable? How is that serving your children?

And you didn't answer Pete and Affaircare's question. Was that a mistake you wrote that you were having an affair, too? I'm confused.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

HOLY S*&^ Affaircare! Out of context, I mis-typed that. What I meant to say was the only problem with me moving back into "OUR" house, (the house that my soon to be ex-wife) is that my soon to be ex-wife is having an affair.

I am living in my buddies basement, I'm not having an affair! 

My wife is having the affair, and I refuse to live in the spare bedroom and ignore all her phone calls and texts to this guy. 

sorry for the confusion.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, I read "love and respect", I watched "Fireproof" .......... I forgave my wife and told her if she'd quit the affair I'd move back in and work on things.

Trust me, I know what you're saying, but I am also a man of respect and honor. (I am a OEF/OIF Vet) I do not deserve to be treated like this, by anyone, ESPECIALLY my wife. I have hung in there since I found out about the affair, which was around June 26th. I know it seems like a short time (52 days) but it is absolute TORMENT to know that my wife is going out with a guy at night (instead of her girlfriends like she says she is) and cheating on me. I can't hang on anymore!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Please explain to me why you think it's wrong to call this KID's parents? If your child was 22 and was sleeping with a married woman, wouldn't you want to know? He is young enough that his parents still hold a lot of influence over him and are still invested in helping to raise him right. IMO, you OWE them a phone call so they can know what their child is doing.

Not to mention that it will likely end the affair. Nearly all such cases where the older woman finds a college kid end when his parents find out and pull him up straight and he bails on her.

You ask why you should work at it, what's to prevent her from doing more? 

YOU ARE.

YOU are supposed to be taking on YOUR responsibility for how your marriage got this way in the first place that she NEEDED to look elsewhere, and you owe your family the work it takes to FIX your half of the problems, so that she can see a reason to come back to you.

Instead, you just go 'fine! whatever!' That's the easy way out.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful said:


> Turnera, I read "love and respect", I watched "Fireproof" .......... I forgave my wife and told her if she'd quit the affair I'd move back in and work on things.
> 
> Trust me, I know what you're saying, but I am also a man of respect and honor. (I am a OEF/OIF Vet) I do not deserve to be treated like this, by anyone, ESPECIALLY my wife. I have hung in there since I found out about the affair, which was around June 26th. I know it seems like a short time (52 days) but it is absolute TORMENT to know that my wife is going out with a guy at night (instead of her girlfriends like she says she is) and cheating on me. I can't hang on anymore!


No one said it was easy. But you are talking about ripping your kids' lives apart because you can't hang on? Sounds like you consider your marriage, and your kids' future, expendable. 

Sorry, and thanks for your service, but I don't see you doing anywhere NEAR the work you could have been doing to stop this affair in its tracks. Now that you are here and getting advice, you're just ready to quit?

I've seen men hang in for 12 or more months, biting their tongue, fighting the affair and the fog, ignoring their wives comments, waiting for the affair to die down as it almost always does, FOR THEIR KIDS.

Instead, you want out because of your pride? Because you won't 'deserve' to let someone do this to you? Uh, ok.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, I looked at myself. She is fabricating things that I did, in order to justify herself. I am a good man. I looked back and saw that I've been a good dad, I've been a good husband. I've provided. She has no justification for what she did! 

I will look into calling the kids mom, but that's way out of my league in my opinion. Yeah, she ought to know, but even if she does influence him, my wife cheated. Gotta run, be back on tomorrow guys. Thanks for all the advice, and quit beatin up on me, would ya'


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful said:


> She is fabricating things that I did, in order to justify herself.


So what? 

If you HAVE read the material, you would understand that she is not herself right now. She is trapped back in the back of her mind somewhere, while an alien runs her body, and she can't get out. YOU could be helping her out of this fog.

She is an addict, addicted to the 'feel good' of cheating. But she is not happy. She's happy like a coke addict, while she flies, but when she crashes, she crashes. 

YOU could be the hero here, and be patient and understanding and strong and unwavering, and show her the way home.

If you have read the material, you'll know that, if you can get her free of the affair, and you can work on what YOU contributed to the bad marriage, you can have your old wife back - a contrite, sorry, embarrassed, and grateful wife who is glad you waited it out. But it takes work on your part. Not trying to be mean, just to shake you out of this 'mission' you're on to walk away before you should. Before it's too late.


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## Affaircare (Jan 11, 2010)

Grateful said:


> HOLY S*&^ Affaircare! Out of context, I mis-typed that. What I meant to say was the only problem with me moving back into "OUR" house, (the house that my soon to be ex-wife) is that my soon to be ex-wife is having an affair.
> 
> I am living in my buddies basement, I'm not having an affair!
> 
> ...


Okay WHEW!!! Because if you were having an affair I was going to :soapbox: Glad to at least clear up that confusion.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> HOLY S*&^ Affaircare! Out of context, I mis-typed that. What I meant to say was the only problem with me moving back into "OUR" house, (the house that my soon to be ex-wife) is that my soon to be ex-wife is having an affair


Wow! Ok then - that is a HUGE relief!!!


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## willzy (Aug 4, 2010)

Grateful said:


> I called her parents, I called my minister, I called several close friends. She is shutting everyone down according to what I've heard. I don't think I should call her boss, that would be over-stepping my boundaries. I will be offline for a while guys, but thanks for your advice. The fact remains, i have to hold myself together through all of this, and be able to look myself in the mirror and say "I am the man, and father I want to be". If I play into her affair, and give her attention, and put all this work in and she dismisses EVERY BIT of it, and continues to lie, why should I sit around and take it? I made me decision, I appreciate everyone's advice. I wrote her a note tonight, I will copy the test into the next post so you can read it. Thanks all


ugh. you're bailing out too soon.

look back into the mirror. when your kids ask you in 15yrs what you did to save it, are you sure this is enough?

I know it seems as if everyone is beating up on you when you are the injured party. and male pride is deep-rooted and hard to shake. i understand why you don't feel you can't put yourself out there more than you have already.

but this is the rest of your life and your kids lives and her life that is at stake here. and you can't solve anything if you aren't at home.

Get home, call kid's Mom, and try just being in the same house for a few days. communication will start to come.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I say you know your situation better then anyone. Its not like you're saying "You screwed someone so I'm gone". No, you have boundaries that you expect to be met. And she won't. That is called the deal breaker. Move back home. File and move on. You don't have to go through with it if something changes. I personally think that she doesn't know what she wants. And that she just "wants" whatever she feels like at the time. I think that she will definitely regret what she is doing in the future, but I guess that is what's called a consequence for her actions. Fighting for your marriage does not mean being a doormat. Stay strong.


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

turnera said:


> No one said it was easy. But you are talking about ripping your kids' lives apart because you can't hang on? Sounds like you consider your marriage, and your kids' future, expendable.
> 
> I've seen men hang in for 12 or more months, biting their tongue, fighting the affair and the fog, ignoring their wives comments, waiting for the affair to die down as it almost always does, FOR THEIR KIDS.
> 
> Instead, you want out because of your pride? Because you won't 'deserve' to let someone do this to you? Uh, ok.


I don't normally comment on most infidelity posts because I do hold a personal view that is not popular on here about affairs (I have a very hard line about acceptable behavior in a marriage) But your post seems a bit harsh to say to the guy. Sure, yall can help a person through the hurt, pain, etc. But to be as critical as I am reading you being to the man? 

I've seen just as many people try to hold onto a marriage from an affair that was doomed anyway. It's up to each person to decide how much they are willing to take in an affair situation.

I am one am GLAD my mother had a low tolerance for affairs, otherwise she would have been stuck in a horrible crappy marriage just for "me". Heck Tunera, sometimes divorce IS better for the kids...


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> She is fabricating things that I did, in order to justify herself.


Standard operational procedure. She will:

Minimize what is good in your marriage.
Minimize what is wrong with her affair.

Maximize what was wrong with your marriage.
Maximize what is fun in her affair.

She will revise the history of your marriage to show it was never any good.

This is STANDARD procedure. 



> I am a good man. I looked back and saw that I've been a good dad, I've been a good husband. I've provided. She has no justification for what she did!


Very, very few affairs happen in a vacuum. In every instance I've encountered yet, there are things in the marriage that are missing - things that seem to be, or are, supplied by the New Person. I have no doubt that you are a 'good' man. But this does not indicate that there are not areas in your marriage where things were not as they seemed to you. You are going by what YOU assume to be all the criteria needed for life to run without hitch: and yet a hitch showed up. Your wife turned to someone else.



> Trust me, I know what you're saying, but I am also a man of respect and honor. (I am a OEF/OIF Vet) I do not deserve to be treated like this, by anyone, ESPECIALLY my wife.


No one 'deserves' to be cheated on. Sometimes it may seem 'fair' - but in reality, a wrong can never create a right. May I point out that there was something in your marriage which your wife determined she also did not deserve - moreover - there is something that she has determined that she DOES deserve - a New Guy, because the old one was doing something she didn't deserve.

I'll bet I can point out what it was too: you left her alone way too often:



> In June I was gone for basically the whole month.


and then...



> Then I had to go on another business trip. When I left, we hugged and kissed, and she told me to hurry back to we could go to the country fair and hang out in the beer garden!


I've seen this many times. She feels abandoned - you leave her sitting, waiting. Why not take her with you on these trips?



> I have hung in there since I found out about the affair, which was around June 26th. I know it seems like a short time (52 days) but it is absolute TORMENT to know that my wife is going out with a guy at night (instead of her girlfriends like she says she is) and cheating on me. I can't hang on anymore!


_Hanging in there_ is not a solution. All that does is use up time. If you want your marriage to work, there is WORK that has to be done - waiting won't fix it - especially if the initial trouble that cause the affair to seem like the right solution is still ongoing. 

What the heck are you 'hanging on FOR'? DO you really think that your wife, now that she has found someone who will stick with her, will go back to the guy who leaves for months on end - and isn't even trying to do anything with her now? (How else do you think she interprets the fact that all you do is 'wait' for her to come back?)

Every moment that affair goes unchallenged, - or condoned (which is all that 'giving in' and 'hanging in' is viewed as) it grows stronger. And it will until it burns itself out and your wife is left hurt and alone, as will you.

The reason you are still in absolute torment (seriously? absolute?) is because you assumed that all you had to do was ask her to stop the affair, she would do that, and then life would go back to the way it was. 

_Never gonna happen._

Unless work is done on the marriage, another affair will happen. Proof? Check out what happened when you left for your next business trip?

It is interesting that you bring up you've 'read' the material, watched 'Fireproof' etc. But - what have you changed? Have you implemented ANYTHING found in these questionnaires? How about these? 

In what way have you taken steps to CHANGE the environment in your home which makes an affair seem to be the best option?

I know people will cheer you on - urging you to get a divorce, make claims that divorce can be better for the kids - but I am questioning the fact that 2 months of discomfort is worth the damage the divorce ALWAYS does to a child. Those who think it would have been better - haven't been through it, and are simply wishing that their lives could be better - and are using the fact that their parents DIDN'T divorce as the excuse.

You married for life - how long is that - how long could you be married - 40 years? That is 480 months - and it could be a lot longer. 2 months out of that is what, 0.04% of the total. You can't find a way to get your marriage on track, because less than 1/10 of a percent of it tormented you?

Isn't the concept of honor one that includes the willingness to do hard work if it takes it? Turnera is right - there is an overabundance of weakness on this board right now - people who are willing to cut and run because things are uncomfortable for them right now - and they aren't willing to take a few months and do a few steps that could make all the difference.

----------------
Now playing: Eric Clapton - Badge
via FoxyTunes


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> The fact remains, i have to hold myself together through all of this, and be able to look myself in the mirror and say "I am the man, and father I want to be". If I play into her affair, and give her attention, and put all this work in and she dismisses EVERY BIT of it, and continues to lie, why should I sit around and take it?


So don't play into her affair. Take the steps necessary to end it. Just don't throw out your family, wife, and marriage along with it! 

Your decision to divorce her is based upon an 'if' - how 'honorable' and 'good' is that? 'IF' she continues then why should I sit around and take it?

Well, - what 'IF' your efforts pay off and she returns?

No one is asking you to 'sit around' and 'take it'. None of what we suggest involves such a thing. 

And dismissing it out of hand may be ANOTHER indication of why your wife has turned to someone else: if you treat her the same way - her ideas, thoughts and actions are irrelevant to you - they are simply in your way...you give her the impression that you don't think much of her at all. And one wonders why she found someone else....


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

Grateful,

You asked...

You have every right to "kick her to the curb, Throw her under the bus". It feels good to be righteous and pure. She does not deserve your mercy. Now sit, wait, ponder, and absorb your power. Is this the who you are? She is guilty, charged, convicted, no appeal. What greater gift than to repeal her sentience. If she can repent, will you show no mercy to her.

If anything I have learned over the past 12 months living with a wife that was "caught up" in affairs... It ain't so cut and dry. How many times I have wanted to "cut and run". And, to what? Life is messy, period. People make horrible mistakes. Take stock of what you have, Take Stock of what your future can be.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Wow, you guys, the support is awesome. 

So I went home last night, and talked to our minister. He is going to try to intervene with her. I am going to sit back and wait to see how she reacts.

One important thing that I didn't mention, is that she runs around with a girl who is doing the same thing to her husband. They go out to dinner, then to the town bar and text/call/communicate with these scrubby guys. My wife's "friend" works at a grocery store, one of the other guys details cars I think, and I don't know what the 3rd one does. 

My buddy and I have provided for these women to be able to buy the clothes they want, drive nice SUV's, and they go out at night and hang out with scrubs! 

I am convinced that my wife and her female friend are toxic for each other, and if they continue to go on this way they're going to wind up living in apartments 1 year from now, with bar flies texting calling them wondering "what happened"

You guys, I am going to hang in there. I want so bad though to give her a consequence. I CANNOT sleep at night! I went to the doctor and got xanax, and zoloft to "take the edge off", last night I forget it at work and COULD NOT sleep at all. 

I hear what you guys are saying about sticking it out, but being a man of respect, I do not deserve this, and I don't expect that my wife will change her ways with all of the negative influences in her life. Our marriage "got bad" according to her about 2 years ago ....... that's when she started hanging out with this female friend of ours.

I think I am going to send her an e-mail and tell her that we need to "take inventory" of what each of us has done wrong.

Oh, and just being completely honest here. I bought the movie Fireproof, but haven't watched it in it's entirety. I watched the highlights on youtube, I will watch it tonight hopefully. I bought the book "love and respect" and I left it for her one night when I left, and when I came back i found it in my closet. She actually had the book a while ago, claims she never read it, and she wanted me to read it but I didn't. Now I feel like a jerk.

I honestly want my marriage to work, but the MAN in me says that I deserve better, and her negative influences are working against me.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

WHOA, I just found out that the guy she is seeing works part time at the school she works at as a groundskeeper. This could get my wife fired !!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Crypsys said:


> I don't normally comment on most infidelity posts because I do hold a personal view that is not popular on here about affairs (I have a very hard line about acceptable behavior in a marriage) But your post seems a bit harsh to say to the guy. Sure, yall can help a person through the hurt, pain, etc. But to be as critical as I am reading you being to the man?
> 
> I've seen just as many people try to hold onto a marriage from an affair that was doomed anyway. It's up to each person to decide how much they are willing to take in an affair situation.
> 
> I am one am GLAD my mother had a low tolerance for affairs, otherwise she would have been stuck in a horrible crappy marriage just for "me". Heck Tunera, sometimes divorce IS better for the kids...


 Valid points, crypsys, but the OP came here for help. And when we give it to him he says, oh, never mind, I'm just going to leave. I deserve better.

I'm the first person to say a betrayed spouse has every right in the world to leave a wayward spouse. It's what I would do. But he did come here trying to save the marriage. And then he said, no, I've done enough.

Fair enough, if that's what he planned all along. But we're here to tell him that he HASN'T done enough because, from what we read, he hasn't really done anything we've advised. And now wants to quit because he didn't change her mind. Small wonder she hasn't.

The steps we advise are there for a reason - they work. Not always, of course, but a lot of the time they do. Time-tested methods to affect a wayward's psychological outlook of their actions.

If he wants to give up, he's welcome to. But I would rather see him at least TRY some of the advise before ripping his kids' lives apart. If kids weren't involved, I wouldn't care one bit. But I'm proof positive divorce can really screw a person up. I'd rather his kids at least have him trying to spare them that before moving on.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Start with His Needs Her Needs. It will tell you what YOU have done wrong in your marriage and how YOU can fix the only part you have control over - YOU.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful said:


> WHOA, I just found out that the guy she is seeing works part time at the school she works at as a groundskeeper. This could get my wife fired !!


 Give her one chance to stop seeing him. Tell her as a married woman, you expect her, and WANT her, to respect her vows. Let her know you know who he is. 

When/if she says no, go to the HR department at her school. Firing is not the worst thing that can happen to her, and it may just save your marriage.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I just talked to her, and him. he told me he'd talk, but I wouldn't like what he'd have to say. 

I appreciate the advice that everyone is offering. Maybe it is a personal issue that I have that I cannot let this go on around me. Respect is paramount to me, and this is a total lack of respect. 

She just told me over the phone that maybe "2" of the 7 years we were married were good !!! (during those other 5 bad years, we had a daughter, built a house, bought a new SUV)

I do not even recognize this woman anymore. I know what Turnera and Tanelornpete are saying, and I appreciate both of their advice.

I told her yesterday I would give her all the time she needed if she broke off communication with this guy, she said "no". That was my deal breaker.

You guys, you are saints, you really are. The effort that you put into the forums is amazing to me, this is my first experience in a forum, and I am simply amazed. 

In my opinion, she was bound to do this. When I met her, she was engaged (I didn't know) and when I found out, she said that it was going to be over soon anyway. I talked to her mother the other day and she said that one day she was engaged, the next day she wasn't, and things "were fine" up until then.

I looked at this guy's FB page, holey smokes. The name "wide mike" fits him great.

I told her my only solace in the whole thing is going to be the day that she comes to her senses and realized the mistake she's made.

I am terribly, terribly upset for the children. My 3 year old doesn't know much, but my 6 year old is starting to figure things out.

It's hardest when I go to the house to stay 2 days a week and every other weekend, and she goes out at night with her boyfriend presumably, and doesn't tell the kids goodnight. Last night the kids called to tell her goodnight and she actually said "Okay, Okay, gotta go" and hung up before my daughter could get the words out! so I called her right back, she thought it was me, and she said to my daughter "WHAT!" ...........

this is devasting, thank god for ambien and zoloft. 

Thanks again guys, but I just couldn't sit back and let this happen to me. You guys are all wonderful, and if you're ever in Iowa give me a PM and I'll buy you a beer (when I can finally look at one again)


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh, and I respect the different opinions that I got from this forum. Let's all respect the fact that our opinions are different, thanks a vet for that


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

*7 Steps to Ending An Affair.*



> So I went home last night, and talked to our minister. He is going to try to intervene with her. I am going to sit back and wait to see how she reacts.


Keep in mind that each step in the series builds on the last one - if you were following those steps, this is step 3. It may or may not be the thing that gets through to your wife - so it is wise to sit back and wait. But remember that there are more steps to follow. 

In particular I suggest you start doing step 5 right now.If you were using the marriagebuilders.com method, this would be called a Plan A. We call it the Carrot & Stick. 

The PRIMARY thing you can be doing right now is stopping anything that destroys her love for you (whatever is left of it.) This is difficult, because she is busy destroying what is left of your love for her, and seems to have no intention of stopping. So be it. You can handle some difficult times - you were _trained_ to do so!



> One important thing that I didn't mention, is that she runs around with a girl who is doing the same thing to her husband. They go out to dinner, then to the town bar and text/call/communicate with these scrubby guys.


There's a concept that runs around here: we call it Alien Possession - or, The Evil Twin. When a spouse gets involved in an affair, to all appearances they seem to have turned into an alien being - they abandon everything that they once held moral and intead do pretty much the opposite. 

This is the result of the addiction to the affair 'zing.'



> My buddy and I have provided for these women to be able to buy the clothes they want, drive nice SUV's, and they go out at night and hang out with scrubs!
> 
> I am convinced that my wife and her female friend are toxic for each other, and if they continue to go on this way they're going to wind up living in apartments 1 year from now, with bar flies texting calling them wondering "what happened"


Unless their affairs end, this could very well be the case - it happens a LOT. 

I'm curious - you say your buddy and you provide, etc., etc. - is his wife the one you believe is toxic? 



> You guys, I am going to hang in there. I want so bad though to give her a consequence.


A better way to do this is to allow the natural consequences to happen - and keep from trying to protect her from them. The case about her job is an excellent point: she could easily be fired for this - and regardless - if the affair ends, she will have to leave her job (unless the Other Guy does.) Any time WE decide to inflict a consequence that is not directly related to the actions bringing it on, we are stepping outside norms and turning into a controlling menace. This sort of action destroys love - it drives them farther away.



> I hear what you guys are saying about sticking it out, but being a man of respect, I do not deserve this, and I don't expect that my wife will change her ways with all of the negative influences in her life. Our marriage "got bad" according to her about 2 years ago ....... that's when she started hanging out with this female friend of ours.


A couple of observations here:

First is your statement 'being a man of respect' - I am not sure what you mean by this, and it carries some connotation that may give some insight into your wife's choice of action. 

Second is the idea of 'expectation' - as in 'I don't expect that my wife...' etc. You could be quite right about this - my guess is that if the affair goes south on her, and she starts seeing where she has gone, the friendship with Toxic Woman may well end on its own. However: what does this say about your view of your wife? Are you saying she is so weak willed that anytime something comes along she gets swept along after it? As it stands, this sounds verymuch like a 'Disrespectful Judgment' of her (see the Love Busters descriptions.) 

If so, it is extremely damaging to your relationship.



> I think I am going to send her an e-mail and tell her that we need to "take inventory" of what each of us has done wrong.


If you do send this email, don't tell her what she 'needs' to do. Instead, make is a respectful request: you would LIKE her to help you with this, etc. Show her that you respect her judgment, and that you also leave her the option to say no. 



> I honestly want my marriage to work, but the MAN in me says that I deserve better, and her negative influences are working against me.


Again, I challenge you on the 'I deserve better' type of statement. While this is quite true, on the surface, it also can demonstrate a lack of understanding WHY this has happened to your marriage.

Note: When an affair happens, you are absolutely 100% within your rights as a moral human being to divorce. If you decide to try to salvage it, you must commit to that endeavor. And the hard work involved in that is just as essential to the Man in you - I'd say even more than bolting when things get uncomfortable.

But I suggest this: don't make it about you. This is not an assault on your you. It is an assault on your marriage. Right now, YOU represent that marriage. As a man trained in military service, you should easily understand this - the military fights not because someone wronged a soldier, but because the State has been offended in some way, and the military is its means of fighting that offense. 

You represent your marriage: fight for it.​
----------------
Now playing: Mozart - Divertimento in D Major, K. 204 - 6 - Menuetto and Trio
via FoxyTunes


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Tanelornpete, I honor your thoughts. Unfortunately, I do not agree with them completely. 

You asked is this was her only negatively influencing friend, I say "yes", undoubtedly. Now I find out her friend is getting a divorce also. It's ironic that my wife and her girlfriend started wearing the same jeans, my wife bought the same coffee maker her friend had .... 

I'm coping though. Whatever you go by, Tanelornpete, or just Pete, "Thank You"

I myself cannot comprehend putting as much effort as you have into someone elses problem, but karma is a good thing, and I will return it to someone someday, I promise you that.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You may not agree with his thoughts, but one thing to consider: He is the one with the marriage that is working, and you are stuck with this.

And it could all change...with YOU.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, I am the type of person that will let this sit and stew in the background even if it did work out. That's a personality trait of mine. Some people could make it work and become stronger, to me it's always be a "crack in the wall". I don't know how else to say it.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I have a different opinion. Can I give it? I have been married for 30 years to one wife. I think grateful is doing the best he can with this situation. He is setting boundaries for his own self respect with someone who is disrespecting him (and herself). Correct me if I am wrong, but the only thing he has asked her is to go NC with the POSOM? And her answer has been a resounding "NO!". What more would you like him to do? This is not about grateful. It's about his wife. Grateful is doing what he needs to do for his kids and himself. His wife will either come around or she won't. Right now it appears that his wife is respecting him less for reaching out to her. There are principles that tanelornpete advocates that work in many situations. But the last court of approval has to be the BSs own mental health and self respect. 

I would suggest that grateful exposes to all friends, family members, and her employer. Cut her off financially and encourage her to leave the home. If the consequence of losing grateful is not enough. Up the ante. Maybe she will wake up if she loses friends, family, employment, community standing, kids and her home. Best of luck grateful.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Well, that's what we've been advising, to expose, and he doesn't want to do it.

Grateful, we advise that because it works. It shines light on the affair and makes it obvious to everyone that she's doing something wrong. Affairs thrive in secrecy. You keeping it secret LETS her keep having the affair.

If you're ready to walk, why not give it this one last shot, and tell everyone that matters to her, and her boss, and his parents? If nothing else, she can't just waltz off into the sunset with her new 'beau' and have everything accept it. At best, it will crumble the affair because of the alienation, the reproval, the talks, nad the shame. And once he is out of the picture, your old wife may come back.

But if you think you will never forgive her, it will always be a 'crack,' then let her go. And I hope you have good luck finding someone else who won't cheat, if you haven't done the work to make yourself a better partner first.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Initfortheduration, I honor your opinion as much as I do everyone elses. I am leaving the exposing up to the town, the rumors have already come back around to me, she has her own consequences to face, and in the interest of our kids I am going to let those consequences present themselves. 

I have already separated our banks accounts (I found out the rumors August 8th, and had the accounts separated and direct deposits changed by 9am Monday August 9th).

There is something peculiar going on in our small (1000 people) town, with older, mostly married women screwing around on their husbands with "nothings" as far as I'm concerned. I just don't get it, I am traditional in the since that marriage is sacred, and holy. But I am also traditional in the my own sense in the way of respect, and unfortunately in this case (I never knew how it would have / could have played out) but it turned out being disrespected by my wife was reason enough to turn her away.

Like I said before, I have to be able to look in the mirror and see the man I want to be staring back at me.

When I married her, I let her change my wardrobe, pick out all the home furnishings, thinking I was being "compatible" ........ in the end I think I lost her respect for bending over backwards for her. 

Everything that I internalized through counseling about my own inadequacies is now in a puddle on the floor next to me (not physically). 

I don't look forward to it, but one day my kids will ask me why we got a divorce, and I can say "you'll have to ask your mom that question buddy/honey"


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, her parents know, most of her close friends know, her 2 brothers know. I do not wish to inform her employer, or boyfriends mom. (I don't even know how to get ahold of her, or know her) She freaks out when she's not in control, and that's what happening now. Unfortunately for both of us, I will be sitting in the bleachers watching it all happen, hopefully hugging our kids.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Tanelornpete, I honor your thoughts. Unfortunately, I do not agree with them completely.


All that I can offer in conclusion is the warning not to be too surprised when the exact thing happens to you again with the next wife. I was once exactly like you - it took me three marriages to move from where you are to where I am. Some of us confuse pride with honor and respect. And pride always precedes a fall (your marriage is a prime example...)


By the way - I think I can understand your thread title now! G'luck!


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Tanelornpete. let's not talk about a "next" wife at this point  I hope that "completely clueless" thing wasn't a jab, I did try, but after having my pride, dignity, and respect trampled I crumbled. It takes 6 months and in some circumstances 3 months for it to be final in Iowa. I think her BF will be old news by then.


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

If I may add my own opinion and the is all that it is. I have been reading this thread and I am new to this forum. But I have been where you are in my life. 

I would go home take all her things and pack them up for her and put them out, and tell her if you do not stop the affair at this point, then you will have to leave. From what you say she has enough support around her that she will have some where to go. I would not leave my home that the two of you built together. She is responsable for her actions and needs to be made accountable like turnera said...

Let her know that she does not have the right to continue her disrespect of the marriage. Until she is divorced or legally sperated her rights to what the two of you have built together have been cut off. Do not sit in the in the bleachers an let her take you for granted any more.

As far as the other person in her life he has NO rights and should stay out of the marriage until some kind of legal speration has been agreed upon. Maybe there is some legal action you can take on the part of this other person for interfering in your marriage. in some states there is a law called Alienation of Affection. 

Affairs are nothing more than fantasy's of the heart. Bottom line is that there are consequences to our actions and we have to be adults and be responsable. There are children involved here and that makes it even more important that things are done quickly to hault this affair or not. Stop getting kicked in the gut....


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

anonymousto, I am doing it for the kids. She is home more than I am, so I am leaving the house so that we can be apart, and the kids can be in their normal environment. I go there twice a week, and everyother weekend and she leaves. It will be like that until the divorce is final, and I get my equity out of the house, or we have to sell it. She has agreed to keep "wide-mike" out of it while the divorce is in the process, but she's said a lot of things that she hasn't meant lately. 

I honestly have some sympathy for the kid, because the moment someone fit, handsome, and makes more than minimum wage he's going to be left alone. He's just her "out"


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Thanks Tanelornpete. let's not talk about a "next" wife at this point I hope that "completely clueless" thing wasn't a jab...


This is my job - I help fix marriages - I help repair the 'cracks in the walls.' In all my years, I have yet to find a perfect marriage (one without cracks). Instead, the good marriages follow the Wise Jimmy Buffet's advice:

"...And the walls that won't come down
we can decorate or climb or find
some way to get around..."​
It _was _a jab - an attempt to get your attention. Unless you find a way to change the way you interact with your wife (this one or some future one) you will be doomed to the same result.

You write:



> I did try, but after having my pride, dignity, and respect trampled I crumbled. It takes 6 months and in some circumstances 3 months for it to be final in Iowa. I think her BF will be old news by then.


You tried for 2 months, turned to drugs (xanax, zoloft) and decided your image was more important than your marriage. What happens to your image with a divorce - or 2 divorces - or 3 divorces - under the belt? There are people on this site who have been at this for MUCH longer - and with less opportunity to succeed! 

A question: you say your pride, dignity and respect crumbled...

That sentence really makes almost no sense. I can see pride crumbling - it is much better to approach things without an undue sense of self-importance (it is one thing to be proud of an accomplishment, another thing entirely to be consumed with visions of self importance) - but how did 'respect' crumble? That makes no sense? Are you saying your respect for your wife crumbled?

Or - are you saying societies respect for you crumbled? How did your dignity crumble when your WIFE began to act in ways that humiliate her? 

The answer to those questions will definitely give you some insight into what your wife sees as the trouble....

Anon wrote:



> Affairs are nothing more than fantasy's of the heart


This is absolutely true: it is a dream in which some sort of problem has been solved. 

The issue I have is this: you keep inferring that you are finished, you have made up your mind - but to do WHAT? Divorce her? If so - why are you here? If not - _*exactly*_ what HAVE you determined to do?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Pete, I have made up my mind to initiate a divorce. Let me clarify my statements, my pride was affected, and spat on. My Dignity was embarrassed, and the respect I held for my wife was held in contempt. I honored our vows, and took them serious. Divorce is a convenience to her. I feel like we should have a phone call!

Don't you understand what I mean when I say that down the road this will be a chip on my shoulder?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

This is teh copied text from an email I just got from her;

"You act like you had no idea this was coming. Sorry that I am tired of waiting for you to come around and be the husband/dad that you should be. I'm glad that you are working on it now, but I have no desire to sit around and wait for it to happen, and who knows if it will stay that way. I own what I did, and know that it was wrong, but that's not the cause of where we are. "

And my reply;

"An "NO", i had no idea you were going to cheat on me and lie to me, and deceive me for 2 1/2 months, are you kidding me?. I took our vows serious. It's theoretical now, but I can honestly say I'd never have done that to you.

One day, when our kids ask me why we got a divorce, I'll be able to look at them and say "ask your mother buddy/honey"


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

From me to her;

"Sarah, I can honestly look in the mirror and tell myself that I WAS the husband I should have been, and AM the father I need to be.

That's you trying to justify what you did.

I don't know why you ever even went to counseling, that's my question??

And what you did IS the cause of where we are, are you kidding ??

Now, looking back, I should have known something was up when you were engaged when I met you and you told me "it wasn't working out and was basically over anyway" ........... that's probably the same made up stuff your telling Mike.

I honestly have sympathy for the kid in some weird way, because I know you are going to kick him to the curb before long. He is just you "out"

It's sad that you needed that

I'm just being honest here with you, just the way I'm thinking"


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## BigB (Jul 4, 2010)

Grateful, even if you do initiate divorce please stay on a forum like this and work through the issues. Relationships need constant care and communication. Tanelornpete and AffairCare are very wise advisors and I am sure talking to them help you no matter what decision you take.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

> Don't you understand what I mean when I say that down the road this will be a chip on my shoulder?


No offense, but the chip on your shoulder seems to be your image is more important than your family. You'd rather be able to hold your head up high to society and say you got rid of the harlot, than to admit to 'society' that you caved and took her back. No matter what the real truth is.

It's your choice to give up, and no one can take that choice away from you. The sad thing is that it's always the children who pay the price for their parents' pride.

Good luck.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

She said:


> Sorry that I am tired of waiting for you to come around and be the husband/dad that you should be. I'm glad that you are working on it now, but I have no desire to sit around and wait for it to happen


You said:


> "Sarah, I can honestly look in the mirror and tell myself that I WAS the husband I should have been, and AM the father I need to be.


Are you saying that you WERE a perfect husband and father? I'm curious to know what she thinks you did wrong. There's the affair fog, but it usually has a kernel of truth in it.


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

I'm curious to know what she thinks you did wrong too? There is always two sides to the story and the truth, and it takes two to make a marriage work.

Regardless of your wrong doing she has owned up to her wrong and does not want to make this marrage work. If she did she would stop the affair.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

And know that I am NOT asking you this because I want you to keep fighting to save your marriage. I'm asking because, as Pete has pointed out, SOMETHING in your marriage made your wife unhappy. Usually that means it came from you. No matter how much you say you were a great husband and father, in HER eyes, you weren't. Or she wouldn't have been vulnerable to OM. 

So it would behoove you to take a hard look at yourself, figure out what you did that helped contribute to her unhappiness, and FIX it. 

So that the next woman you meet doesn't suffer the same fate and you don't get cheated on again. 

I'm not saying you made her cheat, don't get defensive. I'm saying you are only seeing your side of your marriage and if you don't seek out and rectify your own shortcomings, you will just repeat the mistakes the next time. And end up with an equally unhappy second wife.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> Pete, I have made up my mind to initiate a divorce.


Don't you understand what I mean when I say that down the road this will be a chip on my shoulder? 

The decision to divorce your wife makes all of the following comments academic - but they may help others. My suggestion is to start a thread on one of the divorcing topics if you need any advice there.

Please note that while this may seem harsh, it is intended to be more like some cold water thrown on the fighting dogs...



> Let me clarify my statements, my pride was affected, and spat on. My Dignity was embarrassed, and the respect I held for my wife was held in contempt. I honored our vows, and took them serious. Divorce is a convenience to her. I feel like we should have a phone call!


Thanks for your clarifications - would you allow me the opportunity to clarify further? 

1) You say that your pride was affected. This is quite obvious. In fact, I'd like to point out that your pride is probably the leading cause of why you are here. You argued with your wife that what _she did_ is the cause of why you are both where you are.

Well - why did she choose that affair in the first place? Because she had the perfect husband, someone who fulfilled her every need, kept her satisfied, showed her kindness and love? Is your opinion of her so low that you beleive she would rather have pain, sorrow, loss and anguish than the happiness of basking in the light of your perfection?

Her choice to have an affair is wrong - _no doubt about that_. But it is also certain that her choice to be unfaithful is the END result of a process that began _long_ before. Nearly every affair (and every one that I've ever encountered) has been seen as the SOLUTION to an existing problem. 

In nearly every affair, you hear the words your wife has just told you:

"I kept telling you things were not going well, and you would not listen! I told you over and over - and all you did was tell me how wrong I am, and how great, wonderful, perfect and inerrant you are - and now I've found someone who listens - and suddenly you are angry....well, what do you think I've been going through for so long!"

The affair is the incorrect solution to a pre-existent problem. And it is bound to fail, because it is not the RIGHT solution. 

BUT - the choice of the INCORRECT solution in _NO WAY_ means that the problem does not exist! That argument is plain foolishness!

And I am 99.999999999% certain that the problem that pre-existed is your pride. Your wife simply did not want to be a trophy that you added to your collection of All The Things That Make You Acceptable To Society. She wants to be a person in her own right, someone who is appreciated for what she is and contributes, rather than a medal on your shoulder. 

So yes, your pride was affected. It took a kick. But even more importantly: your pride activated this dilemma, and you are too 'Clueless' to even face that possibility.

2) You say your Dignity was embarrassed. I say that only rational beings can be embarrassed. Dignity cannot be embarrassed, anymore than it can be scared, or happy. YOU feel those things. Dignity is an opinion you have of yourself. It can be quite an incorrect opinion. It is not wrong to have dignity - and things can happen to you that make you feel embarrassed. Here is the issue: dignity is your opinion of how society views you.

And you placed the presenting of how good you are to your community squarely on your wife's shoulders. It seems to me that your opinion of what 'should be' (house, 2.5 kids, white picket fence, dog in the yard) means that you have demanded an act by your wife, rather than a relationship with her. Your wife didn't fill your act right, and so you decided to dump her - hoping that the humility will follow her and leave you clean and shining. 

You are counting on your standing in the community - the views of the general public - to remain in your favor - at the expense of the woman you gave your word to love.

You also say that the respect that you held for your wife is 'held in contempt' That may well be - but my guess is that the only respect that you really had for your wife was found in how well she conformed to making you look good. As long as her focus was on being your trophy, and staying out of your way, you 'respected' her. 

But then: her words show that she _felt _very LITTLE respect from you!

She says she was tired of sitting around waiting for you to be the dad/husband you 'should' be. _You _say you ARE the husband/dad you 'should' be. _Her opinion varies greatly_. And you hold her opinion to be of _no _value. You show her little, if no respect. 

And so - she chose the WRONG solution. And you chose to divorce her - because of her incorrect solution. That is entirely acceptable! I have no problem with that.

But I do have a concern: you've gotten rid of the flawed prize - you'll search for another...and yet the SAME PROBLEM will follow you. And my guess is that you will still be blaming that person for being so flawed that they cannot see your magnificent perfections. 

Until you see what you need to change, your chances of a good marriage will not improve. A woman is not a trophy to be displayed until she displeases.



> I honored our vows, and took them serious. Divorce is a convenience to her.


I am sure there was more there than just 'I will not have an affair' in those vows! Yes, divorce is a convenience to her - and you are doing your best to make this convenient. 

The trouble is that this 'convenience' for her is actually only real in her fog state - the 'alien' possession. It is not convenient in the end - for either of you.



> Don't you understand what I mean when I say that down the road this will be a chip on my shoulder?


I can see how you could easily make it so, yes. Many people use resentment as a means of coping with difficult things. But a better way to grow is to find solutions that are both moral and appropriate. Instead of planing on being bitter and resentful, why not choose to find out what really happened, and make sure it does not happen again?

I have to say, in all honesty, that if my life were dependent upon a soldier whose image was more important to him than hard work, or uncomfortable situations - I'd feel an awful lot of despair in those last few seconds of my life, watching him run away....

----------------
Now playing: Tchaikovsky - Act 3, No. 28 - Pas de deux - Intrada - Adagio - Var. I-II - Coda
via FoxyTunes


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

Grateful said:


> There is something peculiar going on in our small (1000 people) town, with older, mostly married women screwing around on their husbands with "nothings"


Seems to be catching on all around the country.

Or maybe all of us here are from the same town and never realized it...that would be weird...

:scratchhead:


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## Crypsys (Apr 22, 2010)

turnera said:


> So it would behoove you to take a hard look at yourself, figure out what you did that helped contribute to her unhappiness, and FIX it.
> 
> So that the next woman you meet doesn't suffer the same fate and you don't get cheated on again.
> 
> I'm not saying you made her cheat, don't get defensive. I'm saying you are only seeing your side of your marriage and if you don't seek out and rectify your own shortcomings, you will just repeat the mistakes the next time. And end up with an equally unhappy second wife.


Those are wise words Tunera (Pete, affaircare and others) say, please listen to them Grateful. No one is ever innocent, and we all have things that we each need to better for ourselves and our families. 

I know it's hard to hear right now, but there was/is something you were doing (or not doing) that she wanted. For her to find that, she made a horrible and unfortunate decision to stray from your marriage. .

You know why the divorce rate increases with the # of marriages a person has had? Generally speaking people don't think they have any faults and refuse to work on themselves to better themselves. So they carry the same problems from relationship to relationship. We all want to blame relationship problems on the other person, because our own pride causes us to ignore ourselves.

I for one can understand why you want a divorce, and I won't try and persuade you either way. But, my advice to you is listen to what others are saying who have much more experience with relationships; and focus on fixing your own issues.


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## BigB (Jul 4, 2010)

nice777guy said:


> Seems to be catching on all around the country.
> 
> Or maybe all of us here are from the same town and never realized it...that would be weird...
> 
> :scratchhead:


This is a vicious circle that has started with the advent of modern stressful life. Don't get me wrong reading this, I am not a misogynist, quite the opposite actually. Let me explain. It has to do with basic male instinct of hunter and how it is being challenged. I do not concur with what Grateful is saying or doing but I do understand, or so I think. 

The male hunter brings the hunt home and then sits around looking proudly as his woman skins the hunt and feeds the family. It is an instinct - Men tend to take pride in their wives and families and it is not wrong. This is what a basic man demands from his life, opportunity to bring home an honest days hunt and then sit and enjoy with his family. 

In modern lives, bringing the hunt home is more than food. You need a house, a car for each driving member, membership to clubs, expensive holidays and the list goes on. For this, he has to stay out more, is more tired when he comes back home and is unable to be "perfect" at being a father, a husband, a son and what not. 

Meanwhile there is another man who does not have to hunt for a family and can afford to hunt less and have more fun. He meets the wife of the family man and becomes a perfect "mate" because he has the time, energy and opportunity to be one. Can a hard working hunter compete with him at being perfect "romantic mate"? NO!

So, now the wife start to compare the mate with the husband and finds him lacking in attention, in energy, in thoughtfulness and in other myriad facets of a husband-wife relationship. I often counsel people to strike a balance between work and family. That can be a great way to save relationships but do all of us have the luxury to cut back on work? No. 

Wives are going to gongoozlers of life because they have the time and energy to be a better romantic mate. Will they become the perfect husbands? NO. They will not be the same providers as the hunter was. So, this woman will start another cycle of meeting someone "different" who will be much like her first husband.


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

So, this woman will start another cycle of meeting someone "different" who will be much like her first husband. 

BigB, I totally agree with this, because every one wants all they can get from the start. Then I think it is a matter of complacency for all envolved. What is important when you have the all american dream but you don't have the hunter there to share it with becuase they are out trying to keep the the food on the table....
And so the grass is not always greener on the other side, but we can not have our cake and eat it too. 
What ever happen to the real meanning of the word marriage...


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## nice777guy (Nov 23, 2009)

BigB said:


> Meanwhile there is another man who does not have to hunt for a family and can afford to hunt less and have more fun. He meets the wife of the family man and becomes a perfect "mate" because he has the time, energy and opportunity to be one. Can a hard working hunter compete with him at being perfect "romantic mate"? NO!


A year ago, reading some internet list of the cause of affairs - one was "unequal distribution of work at home." My first thought was that the person doing all the work gets tired and looks elsewhere. But of course its the opposite - the person doing all the work has no time for an affair. They also have a lot more energy invested in the marriage, so its much more devastating when it ends. "I've worked my rear end off to keep you happy and THIS is what I get?" While the other spouse is bored, might feel neglected, or maybe just feels entitled since they have the time and the energy and no one's asking questions. I don't know...

I tend to think people here are being a bit hard on Grateful. I know that he has the chance to learn from this so that history doesn't repeat, and I hope he does. But his wife turned to someone outside the marriage instead of turning to him when she felt something was lacking.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> BigB, I totally agree with this, because every one wants all they can get from the start. Then I think it is a matter of complacency for all envolved.


I'd even go one step farther - we've been taught - indoctrinated - to believe that our happiness is of such importance that other things (used to be called virtues) - like, keeping your word, honor, etc., take a backseat to what we want - and what we want, we want NOW. We've been taught that it is better to lie (as long as you don't get caught) than it is to stick through uncomfortable situations. We have been taught, from when we are very young, that happiness is the most important thing in the world, that happiness is something that we will find if we get the right combination of things together in the right order, and that the pursuit of happiness takes precedence over every other human action. We've been taught to be victims: our environment is responsible for our happiness - instead of what it really is - our ability to deal with whatever comes our way. If our environment isn't making us happy (we are taught) then we need to go elsewhere to a place where the environment WILL 'make' me happy. Of course, since happiness is only found internally, based upon perception, we NEVER find it - and continue to chase after a phantom - always unhappy, always moving 'onward'...


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

> I tend to think people here are being a bit hard on Grateful. I know that he has the chance to learn from this so that history doesn't repeat, and I hope he does. But his wife turned to someone outside the marriage instead of turning to him when she felt something was lacking.


Hopefully the 'harshness' will be taken in the spirit intended: I have no problem with someone wanting to divorce when finding out about infidelity. Personally I believe that nearly every affair can be overcome, and the resulting marriage is by far stronger than it was pre-affair (as long as the necessary work is done.) But I am always concerned when someone refuses to take personal responsibility for their part in the destruction of a marriage. 

Unless a person learns WHY things happened the way they did, the chances are astronomical that it will happen again. And again. 

The choice to be unfaithful is wrong, always. There are always other options. My concern is that Gratefuls' wife DID try to tell him there was a problem, and was ignored - or dismissed. It was after this that the affair began to seem like a valid option to her - here was a man who DID (seem) to fill the needs she was feeling...


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

Pete, 
You are so right we as humans do not like being uncofortable in any situation. Happiness does and will only come from with in. 

I can not depend on another person to make me happy. I know for a fact that people are not perfect and will fail one another for what ever reason. I have to keep track of my own inventory an question my integrity so that I do not hurt others, but I am sure that I will in some way. And when I do I can only hope that they love me enough to call me on it so that I do not make the same mistake. Always remembering when I point a finger at someone there are three fingers being pointed back at me.

I have found in my life that relationship's are based on communication, truth, forgivness, and the compassion to love uncondictionally. After I am not perfect and have so much to learn.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

nice, do you remember how harsh I was with you when you were at this point? I think you even asked me to go away, lol. Why did I persist? Because I saw that you had intelligence, morals, virtue, and a willingness to do the right thing - even if it was hard. Grateful can do that, too, if he can get past the hurt.

Grateful, I'd have to guess that your military experience has shaped your reactions and first instincts somewhat. You expect results. You respect things. You seek respect. It shapes you.

But marriage isn't like that. It's gray area, compromise, and HUMILITY. 

I WANT Grateful to be happy. And if it takes him kicking her to the curb, that's fine. Like I said, that's what I would do - but that's because I'm not in love with my husband (long story) and would welcome a reason to walk away. IF he does love her, humility will do a lot to help him see what his future can be. 

That is why we are pushing him. I know it's bad timing, he's hurting, but he may never come back, and he needs to hear this. So he can take it with him in the next relationship.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Let me throw in another thought on this. But let that hunter lose his bow and arrow or become lame. Then what happens. His wife looks at him and says "what good are you". Then goes and finds another mate that can work the 60 or 70 hour week it takes to get all the colored rocks and cute bone necklaces she wants. Not all women are like this but there are enough out there to give the others a bad name.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful, just to get you thinking, I want to remind you that you said this:


Grateful said:


> *our marriage WAS good* until she cheated.


but you also said this:


> I travel for a living. In June *I was gone for basically the whole month*.


and this:


> Her and I went to counseling and *I realized a lot of things that I was doing wrong*. I can only be accused of *not doing the dishes* ENOUGH, or *not doing ENOUGH laundry*, or *not spending ENOUGH time with the kids*. I found out a lot of things, and started to make some changes.


and this:


> She agreed to shut off communication to "the kid". *Then I had to go on another business trip*.


and this:


> But then, on friday afternoon, I had this weird feeling, and *I felt guilty about not being there emotionally for her like she needed*.


and this:


> My viewpoint, two weeks is nothing. *I can do that*.


Do you still posit that your marriage was great, that you were a wonderful husband and father, that this is all her fault?

Also, I'd like to know, you said:


> I have been to counselors, and keep hearing the same thing, and that's probably what I'll get here, but who knows maybe someone will have something new to shed.


What exactly did the counselors say?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, The counselor we went to was great, she pointed out a lot of things that could be improved, but my wife already had this guy in her life.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't deny that I may have been doing some things wrong, but she also had a very poor influential friend that allowed this to go on, in her home, and around her person.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm just stating it, poor influences don't help a person. Guys, I'm barely hanging on here. I can't sleep at night, my doc has had me me xanax, which I quit, zoloft which im taking, he gave me a scrip for ambien yesterday, it helped me sleep for 3 hours, then i was up all night ....... any coping mechanisms?? i have good days and bad days, but the last few have been especially bad, probably 6 hours of sleep in the last 3 nights ....... I'm not moping, but things just keep playing through my head. I'm supposed to go home to be with the kids this weekend, but it's going to be worse when I'm at my house, and my wife is gone .... I may have the kids come up to my buddies house .......


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

For one thing, I'd find a counselor so you have an outlet. Set up weekly or twice-weekly visits for now, so you have someone to bounce off of. Another thing is get out and exercise; essential. Another: start writing a journal; it will be helpful now, and may be even more helpful in the future, to look back at where you were. 

Aside from that, my advice still stands: follow the plan, which WORKS.



> I'm just stating it, poor influences don't help a person.


I have to point out that this is just a continuation of your problem. Likely, the problem that drove her to another man. Your willingness to deflect blame onto other people, to downplay your own responsibility, and your unwillingness to suck it up and say 'ok, what do I need to do to work on ME so I become the most appropriate choice for her?'

If WE can see in just a handful of posts that you do this, don't you think your wife sees it?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I understand guys, I really do. It is easy to get on here and complain about the other person, and you guys are doing a good job seeing it from her perspective. I appreciate that, I really do.

I am not saying I'm without a fault, I do have them, absolutely. I am not doubting that. I am selfish at times, not considering what she wants. She is controlling, and I let her have all the control over the accounts and what we do, she may be interpreting that as "I don't care about things" ...... in my previous relationships I was the one doing all the planning. At some point maybe, my complying seemed to be "not caring" to her. I have been exercising, going for runs and bike rides. But since this started on August 8th, I've lost about 12 lbs, no appetite, and find it physically hard to do anything other than "try" to work, and "try" to sleep. neither are working out too well at this point. I'll get through it, I can honestly say it's the hardest thing I've ever had to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful, come on! Even in your admission of guilt paragraph, you have to move it back to blaming her!

Do you do this in everything you do?

My husband does that, and I absolutely HATE him for it. I'm only with him because I can't afford to leave. He HAS to find fault with everyone else. And even when he has to apologize for something, he says the words, and then comes right back with 'but if you hadn't...' which totally negates the apology.

If you do this, you can bet your wife hates you for it, too.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

wow. you're right, I can hear her saying "You always have a "but"" (no pun intended) ..... 

you guys in the forum are awesome .......

let me say this, here is a little background, not to toot my own horn. I grew up without much money, wore leftovers mostly, always had shoes off the sale rack that never really fit. Fell in with the wrong crowd in high school and did stupid ****. I come from a line of military, so at 20 I joined the navy and left the crowd I was hanging with. I met my wife, got out after 5 years, went to school for 2 years, got an awesome job, which allowed my wife to do what she wanted (teach, actually, she wanted to be a marine biologist but she wanted to stay in Iowa so she chose teaching), built a $340,000 house, and have the typical fancy SUV, nice sports car, 2 kids, house on a 8 acre pond, 1.5 acre lot.

I am proud of all that, does it come through? To my wife it must, but I think I am humble. When people ask "do you travel much?", I just say "yeah, i've traveled a bit" .... in reality I've been to over 14 countries, and almost all 50 states.

I've seen things in my military service that make most peoples cares and concerns seem trivial. I've seen people try to save a mans life who had his neck slit from ear to ear, I've seen a pilots pulled from the water who should have died. Ever see that mythbusters episode where the catch cable on the aircraft carrier snaps and the F-18 shoots off the end of the ship, and a purple shirt actually jumps over the broken cable twice ?? I was there, and decorated for bravery for my response. 

I do not run from fear.

[gets off soapbox]


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I know it seems like we are bashing you. And it's logical for you to want to show us that you are a good guy.

But we already know that. If you weren't, you wouldn't be here asking for help. And you wouldn't STILL be here after all our hard-to-hear words, lol. You don't need to sell us. Or anyone else.

I'll tell you, though, you sound more and more like my husband. He was so poor he scrounged in dumpsters behind restaurants looking for food for his mom and siblings cos his dad drank his paycheck. He went along railroad tracks, picking up the spilled rice and oats from the cars. If he had money, he gave it to his sister and brother (who ended up spoiled and not so nice because of it). He bought his own house at 18 by working 3 jobs, and took his mom and siblings in after his dad tried to run him over, cos he was jealous my husband bought a new car. He's an AMAZING man. Brilliant. Would be a billionaire if he had been able to go to college.

But for all the good that he does, he still 'always has a but.' He still can NEVER accept blame, and if you even just barely question why he did something or ask if we should do it a different way, he blows up and makes sure no one can tack anything on him. He still, on a daily basis, blames Blacks, Mexicans, women, rich men, God...anyone he can...for his problems. And it has literally destroyed me because I wasn't strong enough to stand up to him these 30 years and say I DIDN'T do all the things he blamed on me. And it has destroyed any love I ever had for him. And made me hate myself for being weak. 

If I wasn't such a Pleaser and had such low self-esteem and full-on Toxic Shame, who knows? Maybe I would have cheated, just to get away from him. Had an End Affair to get him to kick me out. Just so I could get away from him.

Have you spent _any time _trying to figure out WHY your wife has done what she's done? What it looks like from HER side of your marriage?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey guys, she finally started talking about our issues;

"Not getting any heat from anyone. I think that the people who truely know me know that this has been a long time in the making! And the people who want to talk about me...I don't really give a ****! It's LT, I've dealt with it all my life. 

It wasn't long ago that we got in an arguement and you said that you wanted a divorce....just talk I guess??? I guess one of the ways that I deal with it is looking at the big picture. Things could have changed for a while but them we would have been back in the same boat, over and over again....and I'm not doing it! "


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Let her talk. Do not react. Your response (assuming you want to save your marriage): "I don't talk divorce any more; I've learned a lot the last two weeks and I want to fix those parts of me that have been harmful to you, no matter what you decide. I'd be grateful if you will help me see what they are, so I can work on myself - no pressure, but you know better than anyone what I need to improve. Here's a Love Buster questionnaire. If you would fill it out to tell me how I LB you, I can get started on fixing those things about me."

Oh, and the 'no heat from anyone' argument? Yeah, right. Why would she bring it up if she weren't getting heat? She's just trying to brag to you that it won't stop her. Let her talk. It's cheap.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

From me to her:

"I HONESTLY think that the counseling shot wasn't fair, because this guy was already working his magic on you, giving you the attention and affection that I wasn't.

I know how it started, he wanted to just be friendly, but then he fell head over heels for you (understandably) and you soaked it up because of the way our marriage was going.

Like I've said before, if we'd have gone to counseling just 2 months before we did, I HONESTLY think we'd be in a different situation.

And for the record, I don't think michelle is that good of an influence on you, but maybe she thought she was "helping" you by letting the affair happen, I don't know."

I sent that before I read your "let her talk" bit


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You can still send what I suggested.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I sent that yesterday, to no avail. I am going to sit back and let her talk.


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## Tanelornpete (Feb 2, 2010)

Grateful said:


> I sent that yesterday, to no avail. I am going to sit back and let her talk.


Ok, now I'm confused again: yesterday you were dead set on that divorce: now you are working on things? What is your plan of action? What do you REALLY want out of this? I've said this before on other threads: without direction you get swept around like a boat without a rudder. If you make a concrete plan, decide on a course of action, you won't be knocked around, thrown back and forth, etc...so...what is the course you wish to take? 

Personally, I'd pull for your marriage - in my opinion, it's always better to work on the marriage - success means a much stronger, healthier, and more pleasant marriage and environment. It's good for you!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

It's been less than two weeks since D-Day, right? I think the first thing to do is to tell yourself you will make no decisions for at least a month. You can't trust your decisions right now because your emotions are overruling them.


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

Pete, I have made up my mind to initiate a divorce. 


Greatful~is this still where you stand? And if so why are you still responding to her? I understand you are tired an have been stressed out. I don't understand if you are sure of what you want? I would either work it out or not, why keep putting yourself through the the pain. 

If I wanted to work this out I would have to take the hard steps to do so. I would work through what is wrong with me first and then on with the rest of the situation. 

Why the texting back and forth, why not face to face communication? I want to look into the persons eyes, so I can see their heart and know the truth for myself.

No matter what the out come, you have to be friends to one another for you children so why not start now.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey guys, that's what we're doing. (Sorry, I don't know how to quote the specific details like you guys!) 

We are still proceeding with the divorce, we have a meeting with the lawyer august 31st. That is worst case I guess. Since I made the decision, based on her unwillingness to ditch the boyfriend, she has started communication for some reason. We can talk about things more freely. 

I made the commitment a while ago to make myself a better person, with the help of several books, and the movie "fireproof". 

we're emailing each other back and forth while we're at work. when I have a hard time standing face to face with her knowing about the boyfriend, it disgusts me. Plus, we are both much more open in e-mails, no emotions involved?? 

And we are being kind to each other, in emails and in front of the kids. she is understanding about my sleep problem and agreed to keep the kids during one of my days ....... I'm sure I'll return the favor. 

It sounds weird, but we're talking more now that we decided, almost like a weight is lifted. 

I can say this about myself, I cannot stand long decision processes, and that should NOT be the case with a divorce, but it's the way I am. (Calm down Pete!)

I say things this week, and maybe in a month in a half she'll say something like "You know, I quit hanging around with Wide-Mike" ...... you never know, we'll see. 

It's not that I'm begging for this to work (CALM DOWN PETE!), but I guess I understand that my feelings may change within the 3 - 6 months that this all takes. But in the meantime, we're separating all our finances.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

"It's been less than two weeks since D-Day, right? I think the first thing to do is to tell yourself you will make no decisions for at least a month. You can't trust your decisions right now because your emotions are overruling them."

I understand Turnera, but since the divorce takes 3 - 6 months, we're still financially (and in at least my case emotionally) preparing for separation.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I apologize anonymousto, what is your situation? I could go search through the 7 pages that this has turned into I guess ..........


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

"And I am 99.999999999% certain that the problem that pre-existed is your pride. Your wife simply did not want to be a trophy that you added to your collection of All The Things That Make You Acceptable To Society. She wants to be a person in her own right, someone who is appreciated for what she is and contributes, rather than a medal on your shoulder."

Pete, you wrote that. I mentioned in counseling once, that I had "put her on the wall" next to the house, cars, and experiences.

She lives and works in Iowa, and I travel 25% of the time around the world. I won't list the countries, for fear of sounding like I'm bragging. When I come home, I think it's easier just to not talk too much about the places and things, because it will seem like I'm boasting about it. 

You guys are right, I need to ask her pointedly, and without fear of opinion, what she HONESTLY saw wrong with me, and sit back and listen. 

I did most of the talking in counseling, partly because I can't shutup most of the time, especially about my emotions. 

unfortunately, I think my wife will agree that it was a communication breakdown that caused all of this, and I'd have to agree. 

like i mentioned in many of my posts, I wanted counseling for a while but always failed to initiate it.


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## anonymousto (Aug 18, 2010)

Greatfu, I made a mistake in my marriage, do to lack of communication. We had the american dream and were living the good life. But we became complacent and allowed our wants to get in the way of our needs.

Pride came before the fall and well the deck of cards tumbled and fell to the ground. Then while picking up the cards we learned that the blame game was easy to play. Yes see the lawyer, do the seperation, do the finacial seperation, ect. During this process we relized that it was not what we really wanted. 

But the real thing we needed to do was sit down and decided what we want out of what we have now. And so we did and we worked on that, because you can not live in the past.

You can only forgive the past and go on with the future. The what if's do not matter anymore. It's the do I love youes that matter and what can I do to make this work that matter. But we both wanted it to work because deep down in our heart's all the resentment was not worth loseing what we had built together. No matter who comes into our lifes if we continue the same pattern of mistakes then nothing will change. 

We learned that our higher power comes first and the rest will follow. We communicated truth excepting who we are and how we needed to change to make our marriage work. We excepted the past as just that the past.

This is a hard to do and it has to be something that both partners want. But it takes time, forgivness and understanding. You need the help of someone who is neutral to the situation, and the hardest part is listening. But it can work and the marriage will be better for it...


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey guys, her and I have been talking all morning about our relationship, and the relationship she had with "the kid"

she is opening up little by little, I don't know if she's doing that because she knows it's over, and it doesn't matter anymore, or if she's doing it because she's having doubts ..........


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

All that matters is that YOU remember what SHE needs in a husband, and you PROVIDE that. Calm, patience, Plan A.


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## unbelievable (Aug 20, 2010)

Grateful,

As bad as you are hurting, you need to be tough and smart right now. I wouldn't file just yet. I would agree to her "time out from us" deal, play the meek, agreeable spouse, and I'd hire a good private investigator. I'd get as much dirt documented as possible and be prepared to take custody of my son. Otherwise, your son is gong to be tucked in at night by this 22 year old or God only knows who else. She's got someone on the side so she's motivated to leave. You don't have that problem. You can afford to be patient. When it comes time for talking property and money, if she really is anxious to be with Mr. Grocery Bagger, she'll sign whatever you put in front of her. Seven years is a long time, but it's less than eight.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Well, here is the update. I told her she could take time if that's what she thought she needed. She said "no" and that she's moving ahead with the divorce. UNBELIEVABLE, Iowa is a "No Fault" state, so nothing she is doing can be held against her. My focus here is getting everything split right down the middle, that's her goal too. It's a bad deal, but I'm dealing with it as best I can. I got off all the meds the doctor gave me, the anti-anxiety stuff was making me anxious, and the sleep stuff was keeping me up at night! 

I'll keep you guys up to date, and thanks again for all the support.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Oh yeah, the only reason she "opened" up to me last friday was to cover up for her friend that she's been hanging around with, who is cheating on her husband too. My wife wanted to tell me "her" side of the story, which included alibis that protected her friend. Everything she spewed to me last friday was a lie, presumably.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

So, you're going to tell her friend's husband, right?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Listen Turnera, I told him everything I know, that I heard she's been coming home from the bar (while her 11 year old autistic son is home asleep with the babysitter) and crawling into bed with at least two other men. YES I told him, she convinced him that it is "heresay" and not to believe it. I owed him the favor, since he is the one that told me about my wife's infidelity, but his wife is just leading him on and he's buying into it. He is so caught up in trying to make it work, and his wife won't even kiss him or show affection towards him. 

It's a messed up situation, I don't know how I ever got myself caught up in this! I married the farmer's daughter from small town (1000 people) Iowa, she is a school teacher! High standing in the community, very well regarded. I thought I was immune to this


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Remind me to whom you've exposed your wife's cheating.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Everyone basically, Her parents, her grandparents (1 set), friends, brothers. Everyone except her employer. I didn't think that was my place, but her employer knows about it now. 

Why?? 

She is a guiltless robot right now, and she has become a liar. I don't understand it.

I did find out though that when we met (she was engaged unbeknownst to me) her and her fiancee split up because he found e-mails between her and I of a romantic nature. Kind of weird that the SAME situation got played out almost 9 years later!


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She is a serial cheater and you are well rid of her.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I was just trying to piece together what happened. I have to agree with Init. Find someone who cares more about you than herself.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks guys. Pete sure was beating me up, I wish he could have stood in counseling with us though. I was pissing up a rope, and I internalized a lot of what SHE said about me, when in reality she was trying to justify what she did. For a person who just got their life turned upside down, I'm hanging in there. We are both "move forward" type people though, and we're taking the divorce very seriously and taking all the right steps in the interests of the kids. this is actually (sadly) the best we've agreed upon things in a while, that said, maybe this is the best case. Well, best case would be that the kids grow up around 2 loving parents .......... but she had different plans. 

thanks again guys, I'll keep you posted. We're wrapping up the mediation this week, and she'll take it to "our" lawyer (the lawyer is technically representing her) tuesday the 31st of August.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

All right guys, here we go again. Yesterday I looked at some pictures of "the kid". I hadn't really seen him before, except on my blackberry. I almost got sick when I saw him, I realized there was no way (in my opinion) that she could be having a romantic relationship with him. I confronted her about it, and she said that she tried to tell me they were just friends. (I still don't understand the email about being "soul mates", she says you can say that about a friend, I think one of them was just caught up in the newness, I don't know which one said the word "soulmates. I also don't understand the "laying naked on the couch" thing, she says that was a joke)

Anyway, I told her that if this wasn't a romantic relationship, there is no way I am dissolving a marriage over it. Even if it was slightly romantic at first, I can still forgive. 

I told her that I am doing nothing more to further this divorce. I am not going to move back in, I don't think, but I am going to spend my visitations at the house. I am not going to pressure her at this point to quit talking to the kid, she'll have to make that decision on her own.

I'm not putting my eggs in one basket, honestly I think she is going to go ahead with the divorce.

I told her I WAS the husband I was supposed to be, and that I WAS the father I was supposed to be. I was lying to myself. I didn't know either of my kids schedules, didn't know a whole hell of a lot about my own families lives, other than my wife would take care of it all, whether i was home or not.

Things are going decent, I've had a couple job interviews, another today, and another next week, to quit traveling. I'm making myself a better person and better father regardless of the situation.

I haven't received a response from her yet (I planned on telling her that tonight when I saw her, but caved and typed it in an email.) I am still going to tell her face to face tonight that I DO still love her, I just didn't "like" her at times. 

I've already prepared myself for the worst, and it will be a kick in the crotch if she still denies me tonight, but the divorce takes 3 months, all I can do during those 3 months is better myself and let her sit back and watch.

thanks in advance for your input. I think I may talk to her tonight about moving back in, we'll see


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What happened with the lawyer?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

she went there tuesday, and i met her afterwards. The lawyer is decent, just had her fill out an application for dissolution of marriage. agreed with our mediation agreement. my wife supposedly filled it out and returned it yesterday and is giving me a copy tonight. I am going to go to the house tonight to spend my night with the kids and tell her that I am not giving up anymore. If she says "no" still, I don't know what I will do, if she is receptive, then I'll ask her if I can move back in. I don't know how to deal with the situation of the kid at this point, but I have to think that if she wants/allows me to move back in that she'll understand (as she's admitted previously) that the relationship with the kid is inapppropriate and there is no since in continuing it if we're going to try to work on things.

I honestly thing she is going to "let me down hard" tonight, but hey, what do I have to lose? Maybe a little pride. 

can't wait to hear from Pete!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Why do you have to ask permission to move back into your own home?

Especially if she is going through with the divorce.

If she tells you she is going forward, then tell her that you are moving back in. If not the master bedroom, then at least in the house, so that you can spend time with your kids. Tell her you're looking at other jobs, etc. And start ACTING like the husband she says she wants - show her through actions, not words. 

I don't know her, but many many women, when filing, are secretly hoping their husband will say 'No! I can't live without you! I won't agree!' I'd at least try it.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Agreed. The thing that bugged me the most about living in the house was the constant texts and phone calls. 

I know I don't technically have to ask permission, but to just show up with my bags would be rude. If I ask, and she says simply "no" I will tell her that I am going to anyway, that's the only way to show her that I am truly willing to work in things. 

I did tell her that I don't agree from me to her;

"I told myself I wasn't going to do anything over email today, but here goes.

I am NOT going to let an inappropriate "emotional" relationship ruin our marriage.

Don't get me wrong, our marriage was suffering and I think you used this as an "out" .........

The fact still remains though, I am adamant about making this work, and doing everything I can on my end to convince you that this can be salvaged, or at the very least given another try.

You have to see what this is going to both of us, it's tearing everything apart that we've worked so hard for. It just doesn't make sense to do it over what amounts to an inappropriate relationship.

Nothing we've done so far cannot be "undone"

I still love you, through all of this. There have been times when I really "don't like" you, but my feelings have never changed.

I am making the changes I recognized in counseling, regardless. I owe it to the kids, and you. Honestly, I feel like a piece of **** for not knowing gavin or bella's daily routines. All I knew is that you'd take care of it. I said that I "was" the husband I was supposed to be, and that I "was" the father I was supposed to be. I was lying to myself. I wasn't. Sorry."


She hasn't said much since, maybe she's mulling it over, maybe she's resolved to move ahead and knows she is going to finish me off tonight. I don't know, but I can't lose trying.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

I think you should move back in too. Take what you learned about yourself in counseling and apply it to your marriage. List the goals and concrete steps you are taking to turn things around. Sit down with her and go over them. Tell her this is the direction you would like to take your marriage. Ask her if she wants to come along. Ask her for a three month cooling off period. Use the time to reconnect. Tell her you are moving back regardless, if only to start helping with the kids and developing a new schedule regarding sharing of parental duties. Be positive. No love busters. Date nights. I would heartily suggest doing "The love dare" with her. It's a 30 day program which comes highly recommended. Best of luck.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Thanks Duration. I bought the book, but gave up when she blatently shut me down. Depending on how tonight goes, geeezzz, I don't even know what to say. I don't know what I'm going to do depending on how tonight goes, guess if she still turns me down, i go back to my buddies. If she turns me down, I feel uncomfortable staying there with her still communicating with "the kid", maybe I'll have to try to suck it up knowing that she says it's only a friendship. 

I will update you guys in the morning. I'll check the forum one last time at 4:30pm CST before I head to "our" house. Thanks everyone, wish me luck.

what do you mean by "no love busters" ?? I am not going to tell her what to do about her relationship with the kid, I will let that happen however it is going to happen. eventually it will have to stop, but that's just inferred, I think she will figure that out.

I am honestly thinking she is going to shut me down, but we'll see. At this point, I can just lay my heart out and let her do what she wants to it.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Grateful, I will tell you that I have seen men AND women stay in the same house with their cheating spouse for months on end, because they are determined to FIGHT this evil that's invading their marriage. And you can't do it from another house. It really is that simple.

So you either WANT this marriage and are willing to battle the evil from the inside, no matter how disgusting it feels to see her do such things, or you don't value it enough to make it through. 

You want to not move in because you're uncomfortable? So...you being comfortable is more important than this one last chance to save your marriage?

You're in the trenches, man. You're at war. You either put yourself in it full force, everything you've got, or just walk away. 

JMHO, anyway.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Or is the truth that you are just scared of angering her? 

That is really the #1 'truth' that I see from men, over and over again. They back down because they fear if the wife gets mad, she'll leave him.

Well, guess what? She's leaving you anyway.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Listen guys, IF she was physical with another guy, I couldn't forgive her, if it was a bonafide physical relationship. I know that.

If it was just emotional, I can work around that because I understand absolutely why she would want someone to be able to talk to and laugh with, who doesn't ?? I know I do!! And I want to do it with her.

I understand Turnera, that's what I was looking to hear "you're at war" ....... I will let you guys know in the morning. I honestly don't know if I'll back down if she denies me, or if I'll stick it out and try to move back in. Don't know. 

I'll update in the morning, and I'll keep checking this until 4:30 PM CST


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

Love busters are things like begging, crying, pleading. Or threatening, pouting, things that are basically unattractive.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Okay, I may cry, but I won't beg. I'll never beg, or plead, threat, or pout. Can't guarantee I won't cry though. I'll try not to.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good luck! Remember, it's YOUR house, too!


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

So I went back to the house last night, made the kids dinner, gave them baths, and we all sat in the living room and watched "Wipeout" At one point we were all four sitting on the couch together. It was a little tense, she was a little hostile, I don't blame her. 

After the kids went to bed I went into her room and laid it out to her, I am not going to participate in the divorce proceedings unless legally obligated. I cannot show her my willingness to change, or express my love for her from the basement of my friends house. 

I told her that after this weekend (I'm taking the kids to visit family out of state) that I am moving back in. She simply said "no". (the whole time she had the tv on and was watching it, I asked her to turn it off and she said to "just talk to me" and left it on) When she said "no" I completely ignored it and went right back into telling her that I am NOT throwing away our marriage, not happening. 

This morning I sent her an e-mail stating my plans;

"I want to show you that what we have is worth fighting for. I am not throwing away our 9 year relationship, not happening.

I can't show you how much I care about our marriage, and our kids well being, from XXXXXX's basement.

I am not doing this to antagonize you, I am doing it to put it all on the line, all or nothing. I realized (after a cooling off period) that I DO NOT want a divorce, that's the stupidest thing we could do.

As far as the divorce proceedings go, I will not have anything to do with them. The re-fi will have to wait until the divorce is final, and I have no option but to agree to it.

All this other stuff does not matter to me, a new house for me, the re-fi of the house, equity, nothing. All I want is for us to give this a try.

S%^&*, I still love you and I am going to do everything in my power to show you that. I am going to do everything in my power to be the father that I need to be, that's what our kids deserve."

I don't know how she will respond to this, all I can hope for is that she sits back and does nothing as I move back in and start spending more time with the kids.

There are all sorts of scenarios that COULD play out (her going out at night and not coming back, she gets a No Contact Order on false pretenses), but I cannot even think about those things right now. 

Only positive thoughts.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

From her to me;

"Honestly...I have told you before and I'm going to tell you again, I have no desire to make it work. You can say that you wil lforgive me in time...but you will NEVER forget, you will hold it over my head for the rest of my life, maybe rightfully so. I am so much happier now, even with all the crazy **** that has gone on. "

And from me back to her;

"Ok, thank you.

And you ARE right, I WILL never forget, and SHOULDN'T ever forget.

(our friends) went through a similar situation (I am not pretending to know what happened anymore really), and she told me last night that they are better for it. Will our situation be the same? I don't know.

What I do know is that I am willing to do whatever it takes to find out, either way.

All I can do is work on things from my end, and hope that you come around. But I cannot do that from Shaun's house. There is a reason that a divorce takes 3 months at least, and what I'm saying is that during those 3 months I am going to be at the house, spending as much time as I can with the kids, showing you my unconditional love, and doing nothing else.

I can't say I've forgiven you yet, I don't know what happened. What I can say is that I'm going to fight, and swallow my pride, for another chance to make things work. That's all.

I love you, no matter what. "


I know it's kind of odd doing it over e-mail, but talking personally is kind of hard right now, and we're both at work.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Good job.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Now she is telling me that she is happy around him, and that she can be herself around him, and who knows, one day it could be romantic, she doesn't know. 

This is so inappropriate, but I know she is in a fog. She told me she would go crazy if I moved back in, but I think that's what I have to do.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

That's her problem. It is your house, too. SHE is the person who changed. Let her move out if she wants - but the kids stay with you.


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

too bad for you grateful...
you lost your pride... awful


MY STORY:
http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/16474-excuse-me.html


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

What happened?


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

So I moved back in friday. she got pissed, I think she had big plans for the weekend, It was a hawkeye football game this weekend. 

She sent me some texts saturday night (drinking maybe) stating that it was over between us, and to let it go.

I realized that A LOT of things would have to change, the biggest one being her friend who is a negative influence and has cheated on her husband several times in the last few months. My wife has stated that she IS NOT a bad influence, and my wife's "friend" has nothing to do with her decision. I decided to just spend as much time with my kids as possible, be as cordial to her as possible, stay in the basement (we have a nice room down there that is comfortable) and wait out either the divorce paperwork, or an equity buyout. We have a mediation agreement in place, she says she's sticking to it.

here is a question, when do I know when it's time to "lawyer up" ? we agreed to do this with one lawyer (hers) for the sake of money, but I fear she may have changed her mind. We live in an extremely small town where she is a school teacher, and her "friend" graduated 3 years ago, and is living with a girl that graduated 2 years ago. I know my wife has been to their apartment, and the fact is that ALL the kids in the school know. 

She probably feels guilty about the situation, and has done things to blame me and make ME the bad guy. I can shrug it off, but I want to know WHEN do I find out what she may be trying to get out of me?? 

She met with her lawyer once that I know of, she is giving me a copy of the application for dissolution of marriage, so she is being kind of forthcoming.

Lobokies, I've taken a lot of flack in here for "losing my pride", not "sticking in there" ...... if SHE doesn't want it, nothing I can do will stop her from filing. She can file, I can hang out in the house and hopefully be a constant reminded that "I" am not the one who changed.

I took the steps to dissolve the affair, and it pissed her off like it was supposed to I guess, she doesn't understand it even though I sent her the links, and sent the links to the people I exposed the affair to.

Thanks for your input, whether or not I agree.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

I just found this Fortune on the floor at work; "Time is the wisest counselor"


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## lobokies (Sep 7, 2010)

i think its not TIME... but process is the wise counselor.
and process takes TIME. i do not agree if people focusing on TIME
which can heal everything, i prefer PROCESS not TIME.

well anyway, keep your head up Grateful... wish u the best in life.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

well, hopefully the new relationship fizzles, and her negative influences subside. i think it's just too much to ask for, I'll just stick it out. she won't do counseling anymore


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm so proud of you!

Here's how I look at it. You simply KNOW what you can and can't take in a marriage. And one thing you can't take, of course, is cheating. Another thing is YOU having to move out of your own house just because SHE decides to become unethical. So you are now doing the right thing. Just hold your ground. Yes, set your goal as maybe December 31; if she's not coming around by then, start proceedings. Let the judge decide who lives where. 

In the meantime, by all means go visit that lawyer - since your wife says she is working for BOTH of you. If the lawyer refuses to talk to you, you have your answer. And you go and get your own.

That said, I am NOT advocating pushing any papers through for getting divorced. WAY too soon. I just want to make sure she doesn't get hold of money you deserve, or that she doesn't ruin your credit. Protect THAT for now.

Great job!


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Two things:


Grateful said:


> We live in an extremely small town where she is a school teacher, and her "friend" graduated 3 years ago, and is living with a girl that graduated 2 years ago. I know my wife has been to their apartment, and the fact is that ALL the kids in the school know.


 I don't get this. The kids know she visits her friend? Is that a problem? 



> She probably feels guilty about the situation, and has done things to blame me and make ME the bad guy. I can shrug it off, but I want to know WHEN do I find out what she may be trying to get out of me??


If I were in your shoes, and your wife continues to flaunt an affair in your face, I would be making sure I casually let everyone know what she is doing, whenever the occasion arises for you to say so. "Oh, yeah, wife is over at her boyfriend's house tonight, so I brought the kids to your party by myself."

You are stating a FACT. Let her argue THAT.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Turnera, I've done those things, I mentioned the affair to everyone. They know about it, she knows she can't hide it. The other day my friends nephew called to tell my friend that he say my wife and her "friend" walking into an apartment with some groceries. I called her to let her know, and I said "Hey, did you guys see (nephew)", she said "us guys who?" I said "You and (boyfriend), did you see (nephew)? Then I said, "(nephew) saw you and (boyfriend) walking into an apartment on the northeast side with some groceries"

The line went silent then I hung up. 

She knows she cannot hide this, for christs sake the kid is a room mate of a semi-mutual friend.

She had the kids around the boyfriend before it became more serious, now I think she does make it a point to not have him around the kids. Who knows what her ultimate plan is though. 

My kids do NOT know where she is, and it's hard on them because whereas my wife used to lie about where she was, she doesn't anymore and avoids the subject which makes my 6 year old son wonder. 

I have to think it tears her up having to lie to her kids about her whereabouts.

My wife has the lawyer, I am waiting to get served with divorce papers, at which time I think her intentions and expectations of the divorce will become apparent, and I should find out whether or not I need to get representation. At the very least I will get a lawyer just to look at the documents and make sure everything is written up fine.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Hey guys,

So the wife filed to divorce, I have the petition right now and I'm working with my lawyer to have it adjusted before I sign it and return it.

I want Joint Physical Care. I live in Iowa. I know this is a marriage forum, but since I've given all my background information on this post I thought it'd be more fitting to discuss the topic on this thread.

I am not a bad character, the problem is that the "system" has a history of giving primary physical care to the mother, unless there is a specific circumstance where she doesn't deserve it. (for instance, everything being 50/50, the wife would be the default decision)

I am going to get a lawyer to fight this for me, I want "JPC". Anyone with a spare dime, feel free to contact me 

seriously though, let me know if you have any thoughts.

I have moved past trying to make this work, and so has she. it's unfortunate, but now the only thing left to do it handle the dissolution as amicably as possible for the sake of the kids.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

so sorry. I've heard that the person who has the most down in writing has the best edge. Get a journal, and write down everything that happened - everything! - so if a judge chooses, he/she can read it and see the progression from your viewpoint.


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## Initfortheduration (Dec 12, 2008)

She wants the divorce so you have that in your favor. Just make that adjustment on the divorce agreement, get her to agree, then sign. Best of luck.


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## Grateful (Aug 16, 2010)

Initfortheduration, you are correct. 

She DOES NOT want joint physical custody (for the sake of money, I'd pay her A LOT less), and she wants to keep the house which will be nearly impossible unless her parents buy it for her.

You are right though, that's going to be my angle once my lawyers writes everything up; put Joint Physical Custody (JPC) in the interim agreement, and put it in the final agreement as well.

she will presumably fight it.

The hardest part for me is, I planned on moving out this weekend. My lawyer told me that if I do that, "JPC" will be basically impossible to get. In order to have any hope in getting JPC I have to stay in the marital residence until a temporary order is in place. My presence there, while uncomfortable for both of us, should be some motivation for her to resolve the issue to my satisfaction.

Wish me luck, living in the spare bedroom of my own house is hard as hell, but at least I have the kids around to keep me busy!


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