# Whats the hardest part of affair to recover from



## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

For me the mind movies of great sex are the hardest part of my wife’s affair to get past. My wife says for her my emotional connection to another woman is the hardest for her to get past. 

Wife says sex was a byproduct of her emotions trying to keep the guy around to have a emotional affair. I’ve had sex with a woman, which I consider a serious affair and according to my wife a 4 year emotional affair with a different woman I met online. 

My wife’s seems to not even care I had sex with this woman, but she is really rocked to her core that I would spend 4 years communicating with this other woman and enjoy talking to her like I did. I would like to talk and text her daily because she is easy to talk to and I feel she genuinely cares about my feelings. I don’t see it ever going sexual or have a desire to pursue her sexually. I see it more of a mother son or brother sister type relationship. My wife is destroyed to learn I have been talking to this woman for 4 or 5 years with out telling her.

For me good sex with someone else is hard for me to get past. I feel like maybe I’m not good enough in bed or equipped enough to give my wife good sex. Even though my wife says that’s not the case at all and sex wise I more than fulfill her needs. 

We are constantly working on our relationship together and things are really going in a great direction. I’d say I’m the happiest ive been in a very long time. 

For the people who stayed in a relationship with your cheater what was the hardest part to get over and put behind you?


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

You kept an apparently-exclusive on-line relationship with a woman secret for 4 years, and expect your wife not to be affected by that when she found out? If you're keeping secrets like that, what else might she think you're keeping from her? How can she even feel safe that you haven't been having physical affairs that she just doesn't happen to know about?

I think it reasonable to say we all want to feel "safe" in our marriages. I can't imagine your wife feels safe.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

I never felt a sexual attraction at all to this woman so I have a hard time seeing what the big deal was. But apparently for my wife it was huge, just as bad as her having sex with a co worker. She can’t believe that I don’t care about the emotional part of her affair and the sex is the only part that bothers me.


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## Heart Break (Jul 6, 2015)

I think that for a women, the hardest thing to realize is that her husband is sharing private moments and secrets to another women. It is great that you both decided to work on your relationship, but maybe you should first ask yourself why you felt you need to talk to another woman and not with your wife?
For me the hardest thing was to understand that inspite of everything my EX husband told me, he was lying and sharing his life with another women....


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## BruceBanner (May 6, 2018)

Big10 said:


> For me the mind movies of great sex are the hardest part of my wife’s affair to get past. My wife says for her my emotional connection to another woman is the hardest for her to get past.
> 
> Wife says sex was a byproduct of her emotions trying to keep the guy around to have a emotional affair. I’ve had sex with a woman, which I consider a serious affair and according to my wife a 4 year emotional affair with a different woman I met online.
> 
> ...


https://www.niu.edu/jskowronski/publications/2012SagarinEtAl.pdf

Read some of that.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Heart Break said:


> I think that for a women, the hardest thing to realize is that her husband is sharing private moments and secrets to another women. It is great that you both decided to work on your relationship, but maybe you should first ask yourself why you felt you need to talk to another woman and not with your wife?
> For me the hardest thing was to understand that inspite of everything my EX husband told me, he was lying and sharing his life with another women....


I thought my wife would think I was weak for having feelings. I didn’t want her to know I hurt emotional.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

So, you get your emotional needs met by your on-line lover and your wife gets treated like a hole in the mattress. Nice. And, your feelings are hurt that she enjoyed sex with her lover.

Have you ever actually listened to yourself?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

The fact that you simply just weren't good enough for your spouse.

That they needed someone other than you.

That you thought that you were the great love in their life. But that wasn't you. That was someone else.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> So, you get your emotional needs met by your on-line lover and your wife gets treated like a hole in the mattress. Nice. And, your feelings are hurt that she enjoyed sex with her lover.
> 
> Have you ever actually listened to yourself?


We are learning that’s what happens when you don’t have communication in a relationship.


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## Heart Break (Jul 6, 2015)

I thought my wife would think I was weak for having feelings. I didn’t want her to know I hurt emotional.[/QUOTE]

I hope you understand now that communication is the key for every good and safe relationship.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

MattMatt said:


> The fact that you simply just weren't good enough for your spouse.
> 
> That they needed someone other than you.
> 
> That you thought that you were the great love in their life. But that wasn't you. That was someone else.


Yep and she wasn’t good enough for me then either. I had absolutely no idea I was having a emotional affair until my wife and our counselor ask me to stop talking to the other woman and I couldn’t. I had even thought about flying the other woman to vacation with me with no plans of sex.

It really hit home when my wife said “I had no plans of sex with someone else either but we where alone together and he was telling me everything I wanted to hear. It felt new and it felt right” 

I had a eye opening moment.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

The secrets that are kept is what bothered me. And the one-sided description of all the "problems" in our marriage. And finally I didn't appreciate letting the OM play house in our house - parking in the garage, using the shower, sleeping in the marital bed, eating at the table, etc.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Do you think you'll ever quit punishing your wife? Her affair was more than ten years ago. Plus, it didn't last nearly as long as your emotional affair.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

MAJDEATH said:


> The secrets that are kept is what bothered me. And the one-sided description of all the "problems" in our marriage. And finally I didn't appreciate letting the OM play house in our house - parking in the garage, using the shower, sleeping in the marital bed, eating at the table, etc.


Yes secrets. My wife had given me the attitude I was just be a whinny brat over her affair and needed to get over it. Now she doing a bit of whining herself when she found out I’d been talking to another woman the entire time. She even told the MC I was manipulative and was making it up for pity. When I showed her the messages and how far they dated back her world crumbled. 

Wife told me she would have rather I had sex with her then stuff I told her. I went into detail about our personal lives and our kids lives.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> The fact that you simply just weren't good enough for your spouse.


For me, it wasn't only "hard". It was impossible. It was this, more than the affair itself, which ruined the marriage. The affair was a sin, could be forgiven. Not being good enough wasn't a sin, I was just what God made me. No recovery there.

On that basis, I didn't want to endure the continual pain.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Blondilocks said:


> Do you think you'll ever quit punishing your wife? Her affair was more than ten years ago. Plus, it didn't last nearly as long as your emotional affair.


I do enjoy the punishment, I’m working on that part. I’ve even punished the OM this long also. I’ve stalked him I’ve done a lot of crap to him.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Big10 said:


> I do enjoy the punishment, I’m working on that part. I’ve even punished the OM this long also. I’ve stalked him I’ve done a lot of crap to him.


 Did you know him previously?


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Rubix Cubed said:


> Did you know him previously?


No


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Big10 said:


> It really hit home when my wife said “I had no plans of sex with someone else either but we where alone together and he was telling me everything I wanted to hear. It felt new and it felt right”
> 
> I had a eye opening moment.


Your wife told you everything you needed to know in those two sentences. You're not going to learn anything more important here. Your wife seems to have learned and moved on. Somehow the two of you moved past that. The possibility of it happening again, this time you, and still remaining married are astronomically slim. 

Don't tempt fate. Don't try and rationalize that your 4-5 year on line emotional attachment was anything but wrong. Be thankful you were caught before something happened.


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## Rubix Cubed (Feb 21, 2016)

Big10 said:


> No


 Did he know your wife was married?


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Yes he knew. My wife worked with him for a couple of years he never talked to her. She had our son and when she returned from maternity leave, he started filling her head with BS. At this time I was building my current business. 

She worked 3rd shift with him. I know she cheated but I blame him she had post pardon depression ,he was telling her how good she looked and how good of a father he was. 

Then I find out from his wife he was a serial cheater. Once I found out my wife confessed everything. He got violent with her at work because she got him discovered. 

I lost all hope in everyone absolutely everyone. I believe nothing anyone says. I don’t even trust my own parents.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

Big10 said:


> Yes he knew. My wife worked with him for a couple of years he never talked to her. She had our son and when she returned from maternity leave, he started filling her head with BS. At this time I was building my current business.
> 
> She worked 3rd shift with him. I know she cheated but I blame him she had post pardon depression ,he was telling her how good she looked and how good of a father he was.
> 
> ...


So I'm unsure of the timeline here, but it sounds like you had a "serious" physical affair with someone, your wife later had a physical affair shortly after having a kid, that she seems to have learned from, and you're having (or had) an emotional affair that you're kind of upset about having to stop because it doesn't seem like that big a deal?

Where do YOU want to go from here? It sounds like your wife has moved on from her straying ways and is trying to make sure you don't go back down that same path again. Her advice sounds solid and trustworthy, but you have a problem trusting anybody about anything. Is there an issue that you think your wife might cheat again? I haven't read your other posts in other threads, so I may be lacking context that helps everything make sense. But it sounds like a household in which nobody's innocent but one party has made attempts to try and keep the relationship alive. But it's doomed to fail if you can't trust her. So again, what do you want?


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> So I'm unsure of the timeline here, but it sounds like you had a "serious" physical affair with someone, your wife later had a physical affair shortly after having a kid, that she seems to have learned from, and you're having (or had) an emotional affair that you're kind of upset about having to stop because it doesn't seem like that big a deal?
> 
> Where do YOU want to go from here? It sounds like your wife has moved on from her straying ways and is trying to make sure you don't go back down that same path again. Her advice sounds solid and trustworthy, but you have a problem trusting anybody about anything. Is there an issue that you think your wife might cheat again? I haven't read your other posts in other threads, so I may be lacking context that helps everything make sense. But it sounds like a household in which nobody's innocent but one party has made attempts to try and keep the relationship alive. But it's doomed to fail if you can't trust her. So again, what do you want?


Never getting to asked all the questions, never getting the answers needed, getting the
lies, the I do not remembers.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Casual Observer said:


> So I'm unsure of the timeline here, but it sounds like you had a "serious" physical affair with someone, your wife later had a physical affair shortly after having a kid, that she seems to have learned from, and you're having (or had) an emotional affair that you're kind of upset about having to stop because it doesn't seem like that big a deal?
> 
> Where do YOU want to go from here? It sounds like your wife has moved on from her straying ways and is trying to make sure you don't go back down that same path again. Her advice sounds solid and trustworthy, but you have a problem trusting anybody about anything. Is there an issue that you think your wife might cheat again? I haven't read your other posts in other threads, so I may be lacking context that helps everything make sense. But it sounds like a household in which nobody's innocent but one party has made attempts to try and keep the relationship alive. But it's doomed to fail if you can't trust her. So again, what do you want?


She cheated 1st


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> You kept an apparently-exclusive on-line relationship with a woman secret for 4 years, and expect your wife not to be affected by that when she found out? If you're keeping secrets like that, what else might she think you're keeping from her? How can she even feel safe that you haven't been having physical affairs that she just doesn't happen to know about?
> 
> I think it reasonable to say we all want to feel "safe" in our marriages. I can't imagine your wife feels safe.


This has nothing to do with what OP asked.


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## MAJDEATH (Jun 16, 2015)

There are many "hardest parts". Lack of trust, betrayal, and knowing absolutely for sure what your spouse is capable of.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ABHale said:


> This has nothing to do with what OP asked.


”For the people who stayed in a relationship with your cheater what was the hardest part to get over and put behind you?”

I’d say it has a lot to do with the question he asked. What is the hardest thing for his wife to deal with about his cheating. His wife has lost her trust in him because he kept the EA secret for 4-5 years and she knows from history what it can lead to. He even said his wife’s PA was so she could keep the EA going.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

For me, having only been in this for 8 months - to the day, actually.

That another man, a lesser man, was worth more than our marriage and family. That she genuinely liked him. He wasn't an "oops" I was drunk, he wasn't a smooth-talker, he didn't play her like a fiddle or force his way in. She was attracted to him, she wanted him, she knew exactly what she was doing, fell for him, was intentionally knocked up by him, and planned to leave for him. That he gave her everything that I wasn't, and did it better. That had circumstances been different she would have left for him, and we would have divorced 9 years ago.

Accepting that while her actions were her own, so were mine, and that I didn't help the situation by refusing to acknowledge my own problems and instead was an insufferable jerk for many years.

Self-hate, for still loving her and wanting her after everything that she did. Accepting that she can hurt me the way she did, and I'm still willing to take her back.

I'll say that I had sex with two women and my wife cares a hell of a lot more about the one I periodically confided in over the years, sent pictures/videos of my kids a handful of times, periodically took just enough attention from to boost my ego, then eventually had sex with, than the random ONS. That goes both ways, though. Between my wife's two affairs, day-to-day I am a lot more bothered about the full-blown affair that involved an emotional connection than the off and on sexual affair.


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Big10 said:


> She cheated 1st


What does that change?


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## Diana7 (Apr 19, 2016)

For me both would be very painful. The thought of a man i was married to having sex with another would almost certainly stop me from being able to ever have sex with him again. The emotional side is also very important as in marriage that emotional closeness is also a very vital part of the relationship. 
For both it would be the lying and deception that would ultimately destroy the trust for good.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Big10 said:


> It really hit home when my wife said “I had no plans of sex with someone else either but we where alone together and he was telling me everything I wanted to hear. It felt new and it felt right”


What a steaming load of crap THAT statement is.

Yeah, she never ONCE thought she'd end up having sex with Romeo. Much like any 9th grader, she simply thought her flirtation and the shared compliments with him would only lead to a shared milkshake at the malt shoppe and that's it!

OP, *you *might believe that because it's easier to forgive her if you actually believe this bull-**** she's peddling, but believing her doesn't CHANGE the fact that it's still utter bull****. :grin2:


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What a steaming load of crap THAT statement is.
> 
> Yeah, she never ONCE thought she'd end up having sex with Romeo. Much like any 9th grader, she simply thought her flirtation and the shared compliments with him would only lead to a shared milkshake at the malt shoppe and that's it!
> 
> OP, *you *might believe that because it's easier to forgive her if you actually believe this bull-**** she's peddling, but believing her doesn't CHANGE the fact that it's still utter bull****. :grin2:


So am I bull****ing myself when I thought own my emotional affair would never lead to sex


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## VladDracul (Jun 17, 2016)

The hardest part for me was recovering from the gunshot wound.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Big10 said:


> For me the mind movies of great sex are the hardest part of my wife’s affair to get past. My wife says for her my emotional connection to another woman is the hardest for her to get past.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It’s easier for her to get over the sex part probably because she doesn’t consider sex all that important (as many women don’t). It matters more to a guy that’s why it’s harder for us to get over the sex part. Women will typically find an emotional bond more of a threat although to be honest both is hurtful.

For me, the hardest part to recover from would probably be Syphilis.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Big10 said:


> It really hit home when my wife said “I had no plans of sex with someone else either but we where alone together and he was telling me everything I wanted to hear. It felt new and it felt right”



Why do you need to ‘recover’ from anything? You could for example just move on, it sounds like she really is into that guy.



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Big10 said:


> For me the mind movies of great sex are the hardest part of my wife’s affair to get past. My wife says for her my emotional connection to another woman is the hardest for her to get past.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok it doesn’t sound like you had an ‘emotional affair’ (I don’t think there is really such a thing, unless you are making plans running away together, and then do it and then ****: then it’s an ‘affair’, an emotional affair is some feminist word that people came up with and people throw it around for anything that involves anything from talking to another person to sexting; where the latter is inappropriate).

It sounds like you had a friend. Don’t know why your wife was so bothered by it - what kinds of things did you tell her that you didn’t tell your wife? Was it around the same time she was having sex with the guy(s)?
I don’t think it’s inappropriate to have an opposite sex friend and specially if you don’t find her attractive and KNOW sex is not gonna happen (although nobody can be sure of anything).

When did you have sex with the other woman? Can’t figure out the timeline.

Either way: sounds like you both stopped bothering about your marriage and stopped communicating sometime along the way. Your wife felt emotionally neglected (maybe because you spent all your emotional energy talking to your female friend) and so she fell for the first guy who ‘told her all the right things’ to get into her pants (not ok).
Of course it’s not easy to get over it.





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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

Big10 said:


> Yes secrets. My wife had given me the attitude I was just be a whinny brat over her affair and needed to get over it. Now she doing a bit of whining herself when she found out I’d been talking to another woman the entire time. She even told the MC I was manipulative and was making it up for pity. When I showed her the messages and how far they dated back her world crumbled.
> 
> 
> 
> Wife told me she would have rather I had sex with her then stuff I told her. I went into detail about our personal lives and our kids lives.



So? Did you tell her that you loved her more than your wife and were going to leave your wife for her?
Friends talk about personal stuff, that’s what they are for. Sounds like your wife might be projecting her guilt over having had sex with the guy onto you, as if YOU were the one cheating. (Although I’m not clear about what happened with the woman you actually cheated with and when that was...).



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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> What a steaming load of crap THAT statement is.
> 
> Yeah, she never ONCE thought she'd end up having sex with Romeo. Much like any 9th grader, she simply thought her flirtation and the shared compliments with him would only lead to a shared milkshake at the malt shoppe and that's it!
> 
> OP, *you *might believe that because it's easier to forgive her if you actually believe this bull-**** she's peddling, but believing her doesn't CHANGE the fact that it's still utter bull****. :grin2:



Absolutely


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Big10 said:


> So am I bull****ing myself when I thought own my emotional affair would never lead to sex


Probably not but she is implying that your wife probably knew a while before having sex with her AP that she was going to let him have her.


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## Harken Banks (Jun 12, 2012)

What I thought was wasn't. Simple as that. The initial hit was hard, but you recover. Not "get over," but recover. Gain time and perspective. Acknowledge that you had been mistaken, live your life, enjoy every sandwich. Chop wood, carry water.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

*The initial shock and disbelief of their affair along with the endless "mind movies!"*


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Big10 said:


> I never felt a sexual attraction at all to this woman so I have a hard time seeing what the big deal was. But apparently for my wife it was huge, just as bad as her having sex with a co worker. She can’t believe that I don’t care about the emotional part of her affair and the sex is the only part that bothers me.


OMG, your head is so far up your own a*** that you don't have a clue. Of course it affected and still affects your wife. You are sharing your thoughts, emotions, etc in conversation (women's primary need) with another woman and not your wife. You have lied and been duplicitous, you have covered this up for 4 years, you protest there is nothing more than an EA but I am sure given the opportunity it would be a PA. Lies destroy trust and without trust there is absolutely no relationship.

For me personally, my H's cheating was not like yours (a one night stand) but I will never see him the way I used to. I adored him. Now I have a good time with him, but I wouldn't trust him 100% and there is a part of my heart, he will never have again. He will never have me 100% again. He as much as dabbles in an EA or PA, he is toast. I don't owe him any loyalty, he broke that covenant, so I owe him nothing.
A 4 year EA, I would divorce him, no questions asked.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Big10 said:


> I thought my wife would think I was weak for having feelings. I didn’t want her to know I hurt emotional.


The sign of strenght in a man is when he doesn't cover up his feelings and is honest with them. There is a time and place for macho bull****


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Big10 said:


> We are learning that’s what happens when you don’t have communication in a relationship.


It really is not about communication, that is what happens when you don't have respect for your spouse. If you respect your spouse you wouldn't hurt them or engage in inappropriate relationships with others. Same applies to your wife, though seems she wanted to hurt you?


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Big10 said:


> She cheated 1st


Before or after your EA? When did you have a PA? Or did you have a PA? Your timeline is very confusing.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> ”For the people who stayed in a relationship with your cheater what was the hardest part to get over and put behind you?”
> 
> I’d say it has a lot to do with the question he asked. What is the hardest thing for his wife to deal with about his cheating. His wife has lost her trust in him because he kept the EA secret for 4-5 years and she knows from history what it can lead to. He even said his wife’s PA was so she could keep the EA going.


He asked what the hardest thing for you to get past. He explained what was the hardest thing for him and still is. So yes your response has nothing to do with what he asked.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Casual Observer said:


> ”For the people who stayed in a relationship with your cheater what was the hardest part to get over and put behind you?”
> 
> I’d say it has a lot to do with the question he asked. What is the hardest thing for his wife to deal with about his cheating. His wife has lost her trust in him because he kept the EA secret for 4-5 years and she knows from history what it can lead to. He even said his wife’s PA was so she could keep the EA going.


And if your response is true how often do you talk to his wife


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ABHale said:


> He asked what the hardest thing for you to get past. He explained what was the hardest thing for him and still is. So yes your response has nothing to do with what he asked.


Your assumption was that he was asking for himself. To me it sounded like he was wondering why his wife couldn’t get past his 4-5 year emotional affair.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

ABHale said:


> If you actually read his first post him and his wife are in counseling. They have talked extensively about what has bothered them about each other’s affair. But since you have such great knowledge on how she truly feels I wonder how long you’ve been having a EA with her


I read all of his posts here, and elsewhere for context. Sorry you feel there’s no room for different ideas here. I find that it’s not nearly as important what some believes, but why.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

Short time line for us

We have been a couple 20 year and married 17 years. First 10 years was absolutely amazing, we had a son every thing changed. She had a affair with a coworker , I’m working a lot during this time. I spend a year trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with my wife. Once I figured out what was wrong with her, hurt is a understatement. She half a$$ puts in work to fix our marriage. 

Out of anger and resentment towards my wife I find a younger attractive woman, then my wife starts wanting fix our marriage. Seemed she had no interest in fixing our marriage until she was about to lose me.

We both agree to MC, during MC she tells them I’m a whinny person who just wants someone to feel sorry for me, she says I’m spiteful and manipulative. We work on marriage 

We slowly stop going to MC, we are doing fairly well at this time. We have 2 more children during this really good time in our marriage. During that time I’m talking to a woman as a friend in my opinion but we do talk about my sex life and marriage problems. I feel she actually did me more good then marriage counseling. I hid this from my wife because i feared it would make me look weak. 

The woman I talked to never made me feel judged, she never criticized me. I enjoyed it and I always looked forward to talking to her. 

My wife and I have a very different sex life then some. We are into bondage type stuff. Ever since her affair I wanted her to be submissive to me. I’ve gotten to a age where I feel I’m degrading my wife and I want that to end. 

We started back to MC 4 months ago and I told my wife about talking to the other woman. She has been crying and hurt by it. She says you did this the entire life of our daughters. I believe she is making more of it then it really is.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

> We slowly stop going to MC, we are doing fairly well at this time. We have 2 more children during this really good time in our marriage. During that time I’m talking to a woman as a friend in my opinion but we do talk about my sex life and marriage problems. I feel she actually did me more good then marriage counseling. I hid this from my wife because i feared it would make me look weak.
> 
> The woman I talked to never made me feel judged, she never criticized me. I enjoyed it and I always looked forward to talking to her.


You are still minimizing your affair.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

He didn’t have one. His wife decided that he did so that she doesn’t feel like the only person who ****ed things up.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

personofinterest said:


> You are still minimizing your affair.


Or minimizing the devastation created by the affairs they each had and that coming through the other side, for most people, isn’t something that just happens and it’s done with and you move on. It’s a lifelong process of not just rebuilding trust but having to constantly maintain it. It may not seem fair, but it just is. Couples that never went through what he and his wife have, don’t have to face that. 

I’m sure there are a few recovering alcoholics that never have to go to an AA gig and their lives turn out fine. But most will stumble and fail and need help to get back on track. Pretty much forever. I suspect, but don’t know personally, that post-affair trust issues are like that.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

InMyPrime said:


> He didn’t have one. His wife decided that he did so that she doesn’t feel like the only person who ****ed things up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I actually did have one 8 years ago that was sexual. I did it to show my wife I can have a young good looking woman if I wanted to. She doesn’t even seem to care about the sexual affair, but me talking to a woman drives her into depression.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Big10 said:


> I actually did have one 8 years ago that was sexual. I did it to show my wife I can have a young good looking woman if I wanted to. She doesn’t even seem to care about the sexual affair, but me talking to a woman drives her into depression.


This is why you cannot move forward. Since YOU (and apparently IMP) do not think forming a close emotional connection with another woman is cheating, you are completely dismissing her pain and labeling it invalid.

Stop it


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

Men and women often look at cheating differently.

Men, innately concerned about their wife getting pregnant by another man, focus on sex. No sex = no cheating.

Women, innately concerned about her man abandoning her and her children for another woman, focus on emotional connections. If he loves the other woman, he may commit time and resources to her at the expense of his family.

Both of you need to be on the same page. If you’re not communicating intimately with your wife, but you are communicating intimately with another woman, she will probably be very hurt. She isn’t wrong or being silly.

Also, emotional affairs and physical affairs tend to go hand-in-hand. A man may think it won’t turn physical or a woman thinks she won’t catch feelings, but they usually end up together.


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## BarbedFenceRider (Mar 30, 2018)

POI....I think most of us here get it. But we need to rewind and look at the first occurance of relationship benders here.

WW had the initial affiar. And it was after the birth of the 1st. kid. Typical, for either spouse anyway. He notices the disconnect from WW, and goes sleuthing...And finds, his wife is getting her jollies with another man.

Now, as I read it, he didn't react so well as we see....He decided to "revenge affair" the WW and get a better model and younger edition to play with...(To rub her nose in it.) Was it a good idea? Hell no. Did it get his pain and point across? LOUD AND CLEAR...The WW could be replaced, and quickly. (But OP chose poorly and stayed in the marriage).

Seriously, a few sessions of marriage counselling, and then right into the typical rug sweep. When the issue of the infidelity and marriage disconnect has been totally negated! [ "during MC she tells them I’m a whinny person who just wants someone to feel sorry for me, she says I’m spiteful and manipulative."] And now we ALL get to see the benefits of man bashing and gas lighting in the guise of marriage counselling. More like Stockholm Syndrome if you ask me... But of couse, some of you all may just like that flavor for your own marriages...Me, I'm in the camp of equal and respected partner.

Now, I still think he is in the wrong camp here. He needed to GTFO of this disaster long ago and get a re-do with a safe partner. But his compass arrow is spinning wildly and gives no true bearing. He trudges on, belittled by others and told to "just get over it" and other one liners WE all know so well...Right? SO, a female "friend" that he ends up talking to gives better advice and therapy than a licensed practitioner in his experience. He has a fear of failure, and low self esteem issue, which the wife is clueless of...(Or she wouldn't be bashing him) And now that the wifey "knows" of this....Of course, she is outraged! He is giving the "OW" something that wifey isn't getting...But the narcissism doesn't end there... She STILL minimizes her own cheating and is gas lighting him again. (Yes, he gave her the ammo)

So in total....I see serious disfunction. He would have been better off long gone, years ago. And have that clean slate to build a relationship worthy. But instead, he remains down in the trenches fighting for what?....Lets see what OP says.

In my experience, yes, emotional affairs are "loving affairs". And they DO hurt tremendously. Talk about feeling worthless.... But, while I do have the opportunity to "rub her nose in it" so to speak...The thought just repulsed me. I held the high card, my marriage was something beautiful and worthy...And half of that was due to my respect and diligence in it! And I want to remain that way, true to myself more than anything...


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> POI....I think most of us here get it. But we need to rewind and look at the first occurance of relationship benders here.
> 
> WW had the initial affiar. And it was after the birth of the 1st. kid. Typical, for either spouse anyway. He notices the disconnect from WW, and goes sleuthing...And finds, his wife is getting her jollies with another man.
> 
> ...



Oh the OP's wife has SERIOUS wrong here. From her initial affair to her present issues and shortcomings. She needs a whole boatload of help and change.

However, this is really a poop or get off the pot situation. IF they are going to stay married, it's time for both of them to grow up and put away the supposed "trump cards" and BE MARRIED. Or just split.

Staying married but playing the "who is worse" game is nothing to be proud of.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> You are still minimizing your affair.


So having a friend that you talk to of the opposite sex is an affair?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

ABHale said:


> So having a friend that you talk to of the opposite sex is an affair?


If I had a male friend I talked to about very personal things, my marriage, and sex, then yes, it's an affair.

This is infidelity 101. You are not that obtuse. You KNOW that is an emotional affair.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Having a friend of the opposite sex is one thing. I have a few, we go out for dinner always in a crowd, never one on one. Speaking or going out with a woman one on one is dating, sharing all your intimate life happenings and inner emotional stuff with someone who is not your wife is an EA
Imagine your wife spends years on the phone to another man, never talks to you, always on the phone with him even when you want to talk about her day etc. You are just looking for excuses to not take responsibility. And yes the intimacy, would have progressed to a PA, no doubt about it. What kind of woman is she making moves on another woman’s husband? Really nice indeed.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Big10 said:


> Short time line for us
> 
> We have been a couple 20 year and married 17 years. First 10 years was absolutely amazing, we had a son every thing changed. She had a affair with a coworker , I’m working a lot during this time. I spend a year trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with my wife. Once I figured out what was wrong with her, hurt is a understatement. She half a$$ puts in work to fix our marriage.
> 
> ...


Oh dear, your last sentence is so dismissive of your wife’s feelings. If you continue with that attitude, you will lose her. If I was your wife ( lucky I am not) I would already have gone to see a lawyer and let the ow have you for your cosy little chats. Women are emotional creatures, sharing your emotions with another woman is a major betrayal and over many years too. For men it’s physical sex, not for women. Not sure our marriage can survive this tbh.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> If I had a male friend I talked to about very personal things, my marriage, and sex, then yes, it's an affair.
> 
> This is infidelity 101. You are not that obtuse. You KNOW that is an emotional affair.


Op specifically said he did not do this.

Now with his earlier affair with a younger woman yeah he did it but not with the friend.

My mistake, I misread what OP had written.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

InMyPrime said:


> He didn’t have one. His wife decided that he did so that she doesn’t feel like the only person who ****ed things up.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You must have missed this part of his post:-



> Out of anger and resentment towards my wife I find a younger attractive woman


It was a revenge affair, true. But still an affair. Even if only an EA.


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## Ragnar Ragnasson (Mar 4, 2018)

VladDracul said:


> The hardest part for me was recovering from the gunshot wound.


I've said this before; I'd get beaten with a bat while sleeping. 

Recovering, then paying the hospital. She'd tell the nurses why I was there.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> You must have missed this part of his post:-
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The physical fling, yes. That was wrong.
But not the EA (what his wife made him feel guilty about).
I don’t personally consider an EA is a thing. Unless the two people plan to run away together, declare eternal love to each other and then end up ****ing anyway.
I think talking to an opposite sex friend about your deepest feelings and emotions is at worst over stepping boundaries but it’s nothing like having sex with someone. Some people might disagree (especially his wife) but I know why they would.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## michzz (Jun 6, 2008)

Big10 said:


> <snip>
> For the people who stayed in a relationship with your cheater what was the hardest part to get over and put behind you?


The length of her (affair), her blaming me for it, accusing me of one to justify her behavior (I never cheated).

The icing on the cake was to find out that she infected me with HPV so long ago that it had to be from as prior affair (which she ultimately admitted to). I have stage 4 cancer in my throat/base of tongue area that is life threatening and freaking expensive to treat ($25K charged to insurance every three weeks). And I need this treatment forever or the cancer roars back.

The corner roses on the cake (keeping with the theme), is that I can now infect a new partner, so if I do not want to do that? I have to be celibate.

No, condoms do not prevent HPV infections.

The radiation treatments ruined my teeth, i just had nine removed. I can't get tooth implants because the radiation ruins the jawbone too.

She should be mortified about what she has done. Of course, I'm blowing off the spousal support payments and she has not objected yet. I see a day when she will try to get money out of me. But I'm paying med bills instead. Sue me.

BTW, you asked for a simplistic answer., Impossible to give you that. Infidelity does not wash off easily with soap and water and a new attitude in all cases. Count yourself fortunate if it does for you.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

InMyPrime said:


> MattMatt said:
> 
> 
> > You must have missed this part of his post:-
> ...


I mean I would get pissed at discovering an EA, but nothing like a physical affair. But I guess that why guys watch porn and women read it.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> If I had a male friend I talked to about very personal things, my marriage, and sex, then yes, it's an affair.
> 
> This is infidelity 101. You are not that obtuse. You KNOW that is an emotional affair.


Let’s see talking about how thing are going and her trying to help him out 

They weren’t talking about how to get it on with each other.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

ABHale said:


> personofinterest said:
> 
> 
> > If I had a male friend I talked to about very personal things, my marriage, and sex, then yes, it's an affair.
> ...


OMG you are not this clueless

You KNOW talking about sex with the opposite sex is a no go. Get real. Maybe read Not Just Friends.

He had a rub your nose in it revenge PA. THEN he had a long term EA.

Even you cant twist the pretzel far enough to make him blameless.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> I mean I would get pissed at discovering an EA, but nothing like a physical affair. But I guess that why guys watch porn and women read it.


An Emotional Affair can be worse than some Physical Affairs.

A one night stand (drunken) or a five year Emotional Affair with no sex but all the emotional support and love you should be giving your spouse is given to the affair partner?

Which would be worse?

And this has absolutely nothing to do with porn. That's like comparing apples and onions.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> OMG you are not this clueless
> 
> You KNOW talking about sex with the opposite sex is a no go. Get real. Maybe read Not Just Friends.
> 
> ...


Read my other postings. I am not clueless. I have had friends of the opposite sex and have never cheated on my wife. People can do that you know. 

Then there are those that spread their legs or drop their pants if a stiff breeze blows by. You can’t paint everyone with the same brush. 

You really have to get past calling people names.


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> OMG you are not this clueless
> 
> You KNOW talking about sex with the opposite sex is a no go. Get real. Maybe read Not Just Friends.
> 
> ...


Where in the hell did I say he was blameless?


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## ABHale (Jan 3, 2016)

Let’s see if I get this right. 

She cheated on him right after their first is born. 

She basically does nothing to fix the marriage when caught. 

Op cheats on her to prove he still has it or to start moving on. 

His wife all of a sudden wants to save a marriage she didn’t give a **** about until she sees OP can and will move on. 

Then OP has a female friend that he talks with about his problems/issues in his marriage. He doesn’t ever talk to her about the two of them hooking up. But this is what his wife is upset about. 

Yes they both cheated by having PA’s. 

No I don’t thing the friend was an EA. Might have turned into one one day but that day never arrived.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

personofinterest said:


> OMG you are not this clueless
> 
> You KNOW talking about sex with the opposite sex is a no go.



Why? 
We ALL talk about sex here. Is that inappropriate too?
I was always pretty open with people about sex and even my sex life sometimes. That included opposite sex friends sometimes. Never in my mind would I equate this to actually ****ing somebody. (Which he did too, which is no good).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

MattMatt said:


> A one night stand (drunken) or a five year Emotional Affair with no sex but all the emotional support and love you should be giving your spouse is given to the affair partner?
> 
> Which would be worse?



The PA. EA doesn’t mean much to me if it doesn’t result in a PA.

I am not sure the comparison is quite valid here though. The OP said he shared his feelings with his friend but never felt any attraction to the her nor contemplated leaving his wife for her.

His wife’s thing wan’t a drunken ONS as far as I understood.

Anyway...there’s not much point going over the same ground: they have a lot of issues to resolve going forward. Not sure comparing who is worse is all that helpful at this point, I don’t know.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

*Moderator Message:-*

This is a general reminder that we need to keep our forum civil and polite, please.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

InMyPrime said:


> The physical fling, yes. That was wrong.
> But not the EA (what his wife made him feel guilty about).
> I don’t personally consider an EA is a thing. Unless the two people plan to run away together, declare eternal love to each other and then end up ****ing anyway.
> I think talking to an opposite sex friend about your deepest feelings and emotions is at worst over stepping boundaries* but it’s nothing like having sex with someone*. Some people might disagree (especially his wife) but I know why they would.
> ...


Spoken like a man and seen through the eyes of a man. You have absolutely no idea how women feel about this kind of issue and shouldn't even pretend to.
If OP was my H, I would divorce him for talking to a woman about our private matters and intimate details of our marriage over so many years, that is betrayal. When a man engages on this level with a woman, he is looking for more than just an ear to hear him, he would have had sex with her if it had been possible to feel even closer to her. Men do not engage in this type of emotional talk, they are not women and a woman will not see this the way a man does.


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

personofinterest said:


> This is why you cannot move forward. Since YOU (and apparently IMP) do not think forming a close emotional connection with another woman is cheating, you are completely dismissing her pain and labeling it invalid.
> 
> Stop it


So what is the difference if this friend was a man. He had no sexual feelings for this female.
He just talked about things with a friend.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

If I haven’t got all you guys head spinning enough, during all this my wife and I had amazing sex. Our sex life has not dwindled. We have sex at least 2 or 3 times a week. I would say our sex life is what kept us going. It’s mutual some times I initiate some time she does, lately it’s been more her.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

aine said:


> Spoken like a man and seen through the eyes of a man. You have absolutely no idea how women feel about this kind of issue and shouldn't even pretend to.
> If OP was my H, I would divorce him for talking to a woman about our private matters and intimate details of our marriage over so many years, that is betrayal. When a man engages on this level with a woman, he is looking for more than just an ear to hear him, he would have had sex with her if it had been possible to feel even closer to her. Men do not engage in this type of emotional talk, they are not women and a woman will not see this the way a man does.


Would you have divorced him for talking online to a woman for 4-5 years after you destroyed your marriage by letting another man defile you?

I do agree that EA's are real and destructive like PA's, though with fewer physical problems like paternity fraud or STDs.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Big10 said:


> If I haven’t got all you guys head spinning enough, during all this my wife and I had amazing sex. Our sex life has not dwindled. We have sex at least 2 or 3 times a week. I would say our sex life is what kept us going. It’s mutual some times I initiate some time she does, lately it’s been more her.


LoL!

My head isn't spinning. My wife and I didn't ever cross the lines you and your wife did 

Glad to here some parts of your marriage are working well!:smile2:


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

ConanHub said:


> LoL!
> 
> My head isn't spinning. My wife and I didn't ever cross the lines you and your wife did
> 
> Glad to here some parts of your marriage are working well!:smile2:


Your under the assumption we argue and live in misery all the time.


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

aine said:


> Men do not engage in this type of emotional talk, they are not women and a woman will not see this the way a man does.



We do actually, believe it or not. Sometimes we find it much harder to talk to our wives about those things. And sometimes it is much easier to confide in strangers.
I find it funny that people keep insisting that he ‘definitely would have slept with the woman if he confided in her’....Why? Is this because that’s what women would do?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Big10 said:


> Your under the assumption we argue and live in misery all the time.


Bad assuming on your part.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

> I would like to talk and text her daily because she is easy to talk to and I feel she genuinely cares about my feelings. I don’t see it ever going sexual or have a desire to pursue her sexually. I see it more of a mother son or brother sister type relationship. My wife is destroyed to learn I have been talking to this woman for 4 or 5 years with out telling her.


There's a reason this 5 year "mother/son/therapist" so-called _friendship_ never got past the 'buddy' stage. It's likely due to one (or two!) of these three reasons: the OP doesn't find her physically and/or sexually attractive enough and therefore, the reward simply isn't worth the risk for him. Two, she lives too far away and they don't have the opportunity to spend any quality face-to-face time alone so the only thing they CAN do is have a computer romance (that's what good old Skype is for!). Or three, *she *simply ain't interested in the OP for anything more than a friendly online friendship and _*she's*_ the one that's been keeping him at bay - but he's hoping she'll change her mind so he'll just enjoy the attention in the meantime.

So. Which is it, OP?


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

InMyPrime said:


> He didn’t have one. His wife decided that he did so that she doesn’t feel like the only person who ****ed things up.


Yes he did. He claims he found a 'younger woman' which suddenly made his *unremorseful *cheating wife want to 'fix' things. Pffft.

I'm assuming the OP *wasn't* spending his time with this 'younger woman' playing World of Warcraft and sharing shakes at Fat Jimmy's Ice Cream Parlor. :grin2:


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## 269370 (Dec 17, 2016)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> Yes he did. He claims he found a 'younger woman' which suddenly made his *unremorseful *cheating wife want to 'fix' things. Pffft.
> 
> I'm assuming the OP *wasn't* spending his time with this 'younger woman' playing World of Warcraft and sharing shakes at Fat Jimmy's Ice Cream Parlor. :grin2:




Yeah I know. I think his wife’s beef wasn’t with that woman but the one he was friends with. When people find out that their partners have been having an affair, many tend to sleep with someone, as revenge. I’m not saying this is right but I find it more understandable than having an affair in the first place, for no reason (though there are usually reasons too...but not always).

It’s funny how a marriage without sex is always considered ‘having a room mate’ yet a friend without sex is considered an EA. We should stick to the same standards.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

For me, the hardest part will always be that I suspected the OM of being exactly who he ended up being from the first time I ever heard my W mention him. I made my feelings known to her as well...and yet she still ended up very nearly destroying our marriage over this *******.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

She'sStillGotIt said:


> There's a reason this 5 year "mother/son/therapist" so-called _friendship_ never got past the 'buddy' stage. It's likely due to one (or two!) of these three reasons: the OP doesn't find her physically and/or sexually attractive enough and therefore, the reward simply isn't worth the risk for him. Two, she lives too far away and they don't have the opportunity to spend any quality face-to-face time alone so the only thing they CAN do is have a computer romance (that's what good old Skype is for!). Or three, *she *simply ain't interested in the OP for anything more than a friendly online friendship and _*she's*_ the one that's been keeping him at bay - but he's hoping she'll change her mind so he'll just enjoy the attention in the meantime.
> 
> So. Which is it, OP?


I was not interested in sex with her. If I wanted to meet her I would have went to see her as much as I wanted to.


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## Bluesclues (Mar 30, 2016)

Big10 said:


> If I haven’t got all you guys head spinning enough, during all this my wife and I had amazing sex. Our sex life has not dwindled. We have sex at least 2 or 3 times a week. I would say our sex life is what kept us going. It’s mutual some times I initiate some time she does, lately it’s been more her.


In your first post you said your wife having good sex with someone else would make you feel inadequate, that you didn’t have the goods she needed. So can you not see that you having an emotional connection to this online woman makes your wife feel inadequate? You are basically saying she isn’t good enough. And maybe she isn’t good enough, but certainly you can see why that would hurt terribly.


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## TDSC60 (Dec 8, 2011)

The lies and the sneaking around to communicate and meet up are the hardest part for me. But then again, my wife's affair an EA only - as far as I know.

Sex with another is an automatic deal breaker for me.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

The part I never got over was that I could not convince myself that she would be happy with me.
We lasted two more years but something for me was missing. I have often wondered if I made a mistake. 

As far as your wife goes, she left the marriage for another man. I assume a PA/EA. At that point, you were a free man to do whatever you wanted. 

Her reaction to the “EA” is just jealousy. If you had the same convos with a man it would not be an EA. Neither is this. My opinion is she is just using this to excuse herself and manipulate you. 

Did she ever take a lie detector test. Have you had a paternity test done on your children, especially the first one. Post part I’m depression is no excuse. 

Her whining about your friendship is a red herring. She broke something that can never be fixed. She has to live with the fallout or move on.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

I don’t think my first born needs a paternity test, It’s no denying he is my child.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

For me, depends who stepped out first. All bets are off after the first infidelity. There is usually an imbalance after an affair, and it helps to level the playing field a little. Maybe not enough to save the marriage, but atleast enough for someone to tolerate staying.


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## Casual Observer (Sep 13, 2012)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> For me, depends who stepped out first. All bets are off after the first infidelity. There is usually an imbalance after an affair, and it helps to level the playing field a little. Maybe not enough to save the marriage, but atleast enough for someone to tolerate staying.


So you're suggesting a marriage has a better chance of survival if the other partner "gets even" by having their on physical affair? I wonder if statistics bear this out.

My guess is that the situation described (first one partner, then the other, having an affair) is more likely to happen in the first place in a marriage in which it might not seem like as big a deal as it would be to most. Sample bias. Most would likely not see having their own affair as something to consider.


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## She'sStillGotIt (Jul 30, 2016)

Big10 said:


> I was not interested in sex with her. If I wanted to meet her I would have went to see her as much as I wanted to.


 I know, you've mentioned that numerous times.

I'm just saying if you had found her prettier and sexier, I believe your friendship would have likely become physical.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

The hardest part for me were the “mind movies” of FWW with POSOM, followed by the lies and deception, not to mention her AP was to quote my wife “extremely endowed”.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Casual Observer said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > For me, depends who stepped out first. All bets are off after the first infidelity. There is usually an imbalance after an affair, and it helps to level the playing field a little. Maybe not enough to save the marriage, but atleast enough for someone to tolerate staying.
> ...


It doesn't even have to be an affair, just a short testing of the market. I'm not sure if this would work for women, but might help men who feel this imbalance and the emasculation that accompanies it. Also would show his wayward that he has options. I firmly believe after an affair, the marriage is over. Use that time to understand your options and make the decision to stay or divorce rather than being a simp and jumping right back into reconciliation. Its a great way to reassert control if you are hellbent against divorce.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> The hardest part for me were the “mind movies” of FWW with POSOM, followed by the lies and deception, not to mention her AP was to quote my wife “extremely endowed”.


I can relate to that


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> The hardest part for me were the “mind movies” of FWW with POSOM, followed by the lies and deception, not to mention her AP was to quote my wife “extremely endowed”.


Your wife told you that about his endowment?


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Your wife told you that about his endowment?


I asked her as I had to know. It hurt, but I am over it


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> UpsideDownWorld11 said:
> 
> 
> > Your wife told you that about his endowment?
> ...


Damn, I don't think I could unhear that. Thats the time when lying is the best policy.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Damn, I don't think I could unhear that. Thats the time when lying is the best policy.


I had to know everything. I asked many questions and told her I would repeat certain questions when
She took a poly. Told her one lie we are toast.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> I had to know everything. I asked many questions and told her I would repeat certain questions when
> She took a poly. Told her one lie we are toast.


Personally, the ‘endowment’ issue never made sense to me.....who cares.

It’s like getting upset that the other guy has a bigger shoe size.....I simply could care less.

BUT....the ‘one more lie’ aspect?

THAT would be THE significant factor to me in this situation.

Who cares if the guy has a bigger penis......would any BH really feel better if the OM had a 2 inch ‘peanut’?......it still was used on your WW.

If she still felt entitled to lie to me though?

Oh....H*LL NO.....that crap would be intolerable IMO.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

BarbedFenceRider said:


> POI....I think most of us here get it.
> 
> SO, a female "friend" that he ends up talking to gives better advice and therapy than a licensed practitioner in his experience. He has a fear of failure, and low self esteem issue, which the wife is clueless of...(Or she wouldn't be bashing him) And now that the wifey "knows" of this....Of course, she is outraged!


I think this is absolutely spot on. These two people are completely "detached", living life in individual cocoons. And, they are each outraged that the other gives someone else what they both desperately want from the marriage.

I hope they can find a "common ground", but likely, any hope of rebuilding a marriage from this utter mess is gone.


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> The hardest part for me....... not to mention her AP was to quote my wife “extremely endowed”.


That, for me, was what ruined everything. I could never feel adequate for her again. And, I could not change it. It wasn't the affair itself, I could forgive that and get over that. But my anatomy, my sexual abilities, like she said "some's got it and some don't".....being one of the "some don't" contingent was not something I could come to our bedroom and overcome.


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## Dragan Jovanovic (Jan 16, 2019)

The worst thing for me was that my wife cheated with my best friend. Double betrail. And they both know me,they knew that I would destoy their lives if they do that to me,and they still had an affair... And now they are not together,they dont even speak to eachother. All of pain for nothing. And I am man of my word and I completly destroyed their lives. So now,they both live alone and in misery. And they knew that that would be the result of their affair,and still thay had it. Unbelivable!


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## TJW (Mar 20, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> So now,they both live alone and in misery. And they knew that that would be the result of their affair,and still thay had it. Unbelivable!


I did absolutely nothing to bring about any bad result for them. Neither of them lived "alone", but the "misery" part was clearly upon them. Both of them knew the bible said:

Hebrews 13:4 (KJV)

_Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but *****mongers and adulterers God will judge._

And, I watched it happen, before my very eyes. Her marriage was ruined. I don't know much about his family life, he stayed with his wife and kids, but he lost a good part-time job.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

Dyokemm said:


> No Longer Lonely Husband said:
> 
> 
> > I had to know everything. I asked many questions and told her I would repeat certain questions when
> ...


Well, yea, the whole sleeping with another man and having a load of dna dumped inside her vagina would be enough for me. But if it wasn't, then having to hear he was hung like a racehorse, I'd then feel like I'm tossing a hotdog through a hallway afterwards... no thanks. 

Just lie, how will your BH know? Is he gonna drive to the guys house, tell him to drop trousers. Polys are unreliable anyways...I certainly wouldn't end my marriage cuz a machine told me. Also, I wouldn't want a wife I needed to poly in order to trust her. If they serve any purpose, its the parking lot confessions they occasionally induce.


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## bobert (Nov 22, 2018)

I asked my wife the "who is bigger" question. The "he's almost the exact same as you" bothers me a lot more than the "he's bigger, but it hurt". I demanded answers and full honesty, I got it. She didn't want to say they were both smaller, then be caught in a lie somewhere down the road if it came up again. 

I'm happy with what I've got and sex has always hurt for my wife. So, most of the time, I believe that yeah it would probably hurt more and no she doesn't wish I were bigger. But the "he's almost the exact same", that one gets to me. I asked how it's almost the exact same and forced it out of her, and I'd love to erase that because I don't need to be able to describe another man's **** shape, curve, intact vs not status, and whether the carpet matches the drapes. At times, not often right now, I can get consumed by thoughts like: does it feel the same and is she going to pretend that she's with him instead. 

I think once the who, what, when, where, why is answered it's time to stop questioning, but that's easy to say after asking every question imaginable. I needed to know everything.


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## CraigBesuden (Jun 20, 2019)

UpsideDown said:


> Well, yea, the whole sleeping with another man and having a load of dna dumped inside her vagina would be enough for me. But if it wasn't, then having to hear he was hung like a racehorse, I'd then feel like I'm tossing a hotdog through a hallway afterwards... no thanks.


What if your wife never cheated but she had fling(s) or ex-bf(s) who were hung like horse(s)? Is it okay to toss your hotdog through the hallway in that scenario?


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> What if your wife never cheated but she had fling(s) or ex-bf(s) who were hung like horse(s)? Is it okay to toss your hotdog through the hallway in that scenario?


You wouldn't believe the amount of men who have whined about just that thing. "She slept with Bob when she was 19 (she's 42 now) and he was biiiigggggeeeeeerrrrrrrr! How can I forgive her????"


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## oldtruck (Feb 15, 2018)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Damn, I don't think I could unhear that. Thats the time when lying is the best policy.


Lying is never the way to go.

The BS has to think twice before asking. If they still feel the need to
know is there then ask. For 30 years later the unanswered, un asked, trickle truths,
white lies to do damage control will have haunted the BS those 30 years and
they still will need those answers.

Now when the WS is confronted with this fact they say of I did not realize how important
it was for so what do you want to know. Oh I do not remember that, nor that, or these
them and those. You it has been 30 years ago how do you expect me to remember.
Gee BS how can you remember all these questions?

And how does the BS know that the WS is lying about not remembering?

Because some WS can forget are we to believe they are one of those?

Or is their WS one that can and does remember?

Do we believe the affair lies have stopped?

Does the WS no longer banging the AP prove that they are not lying about
not remembering the details about the cheating?


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## Wazza (Jul 23, 2012)

Dragan Jovanovic said:


> The worst thing for me was that my wife cheated with my best friend. Double betrail. And they both know me,they knew that I would destoy their lives if they do that to me,and they still had an affair... And now they are not together,they dont even speak to eachother. All of pain for nothing. And I am man of my word and I completly destroyed their lives. So now,they both live alone and in misery. And they knew that that would be the result of their affair,and still thay had it. Unbelivable!


This almost reads like fear of reprisals was all that you were relying on to hold your marriage together. Sad.


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## UpsideDownWorld11 (Feb 14, 2018)

CraigBesuden said:


> UpsideDown said:
> 
> 
> > Well, yea, the whole sleeping with another man and having a load of dna dumped inside her vagina would be enough for me. But if it wasn't, then having to hear he was hung like a racehorse, I'd then feel like I'm tossing a hotdog through a hallway afterwards... no thanks.
> ...


That why I never ask! You can't unhear that. But she assures me I'm the largest out of her limited experience, so I'll take it!


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## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

My best friend is well endowed, I mean porn star circus freak size. Didn't stop either of his first two girlfriends cheating on him nor years later his now ex-wife. Guys can get hung up on the size thing but even the biggest get cheated on.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

The hardest part of an affair to recover from is being put into the position of needing to recover. I hate it. Even when I feel capable of fully opening my heart to him again, the resentment that I even have to do that often creeps in. Then I'm sad and wonder why I can't be like some of the posters here who are happily reconciled, happier than ever, it's all behind them now. Maybe I'm just not the forgive and forget kind. Maybe I need to work on that. 

And that's the hardest part. Knowing that, even if the WS does absolutely everything necessary for reconcilliation, and then some, it's still the BS that has to "recover" or walk away from a family. 

Maybe I'll get there, but I wonder if they'll always be a tiny part of me that resents him for putting me through that, for forcing me to make that decision in the first place. I'd like to think I'm a bigger person than that because he's suffered in all this too. 

And this is actually a good day.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

honcho said:


> My best friend is well endowed, I mean porn star circus freak size. Didn't stop either of his first two girlfriends cheating on him nor years later his now ex-wife. Guys can get hung up on the size thing but even the biggest get cheated on.


I hear all the time guys getting dumped and their wife leaving for a woman. I don’t think size is a issue.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

UpsideDownWorld11 said:


> Well, yea, the whole sleeping with another man and having a load of dna dumped inside her vagina would be enough for me. But if it wasn't, then having to hear he was hung like a racehorse, I'd then feel like I'm tossing a hotdog through a hallway afterwards... no thanks.
> 
> Just lie, how will your BH know? Is he gonna drive to the guys house, tell him to drop trousers. Polys are unreliable anyways...I certainly wouldn't end my marriage cuz a machine told me. Also, I wouldn't want a wife I needed to poly in order to trust her. If they serve any purpose, its the parking lot confessions they occasionally induce.


I think I might have not been clear enough about the lying.....

I tend to agree with you about polygraphs......certainly provide no absolute certainty, and probably most useful in eliciting parking lot confessions.

My point was simply about lies.....

THAT would be the issue that most mattered to me if I were to attempt R (got rid of my cheater ASAP)......

Catch her in one more untruth about ANY aspect of the A.....and any thought of R would disappear instantly.....

No way would I stay with a person who could not only betray.....but after being caught and offered a chance, to still feel entitled to lie?

Dealbreaker!

As far as the physical characteristics of OM though?

I don’t see any useful insight one can gain from any comparison.....

Does having a bigger penis somehow transform a POSOM into a better man than a BH?......the very idea is silly to even consider.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

blahfridge said:


> The hardest part of an affair to recover from is being put into the position of needing to recover. I hate it. Even when I feel capable of fully opening my heart to him again, the resentment that I even have to do that often creeps in. Then I'm sad and wonder why I can't be like some of the posters here who are happily reconciled, happier than ever, it's all behind them now. Maybe I'm just not the forgive and forget kind. Maybe I need to work on that.
> 
> And that's the hardest part. Knowing that, even if the WS does absolutely everything necessary for reconcilliation, and then some, it's still the BS that has to "recover" or walk away from a family.
> 
> ...


You mentioned 'forgive and forget'. Well, like you, I've not been a forgiving person. So, it was difficult- to put it mildly- to decide to take the path of forgiveness in my situation. And you know what? It changed me. It opened up my healing in ways I never expected. It's hard to describe, other than to say it's been like having a 10 ton weight removed. 

The forgetting part- that's another story entirely. I'll never forget. There's no amount of counseling or self-help books or whatever that can erase that. The forgiveness portion, however, helps me to look back at the past and what happened in a different light. More of a lessons learned and a sadness of time lost and so forth rather than with anger, bitterness, and resentment. 

Hope that helps in some way.


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## personofinterest (Apr 6, 2018)

Whoever put the two words, forgive and forget, together was an idiot.

The first one is completely different from the second. NO ONE can do the second.


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## Music_Man (Feb 25, 2017)

personofinterest said:


> Whoever put the two words, forgive and forget, together was an idiot.
> 
> The first one is completely different from the second. NO ONE can do the second.


Yep. There's not a day that's gone by since D-day that I haven't thought about it on some level. 

It doesn't take triggers and so forth either. It's just the reality.

Edited to add that I do advocate counseling- very much so. Counseling helps in dealing with the memories and experiences, but it cannot and will not erase them.


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## blahfridge (Dec 6, 2014)

blahfridge said:


> The hardest part of an affair to recover from is being put into the position of needing to recover. I hate it. Even when I feel capable of fully opening my heart to him again, the resentment that I even have to do that often creeps in. Then I'm sad and wonder why I can't be like some of the posters here who are happily reconciled, happier than ever, it's all behind them now. Maybe I'm just not the forgive and forget kind. Maybe I need to work on that.
> 
> And that's the hardest part. Knowing that, even if the WS does absolutely everything necessary for reconcilliation, and then some, it's still the BS that has to "recover" or walk away from a family.
> 
> ...





Music_Man said:


> You mentioned 'forgive and forget'. Well, like you, I've not been a forgiving person. So, it was difficult- to put it mildly- to decide to take the path of forgiveness in my situation. And you know what? It changed me. It opened up my healing in ways I never expected. It's hard to describe, other than to say it's been like having a 10 ton weight removed.
> 
> The forgetting part- that's another story entirely. I'll never forget. There's no amount of counseling or self-help books or whatever that can erase that. The forgiveness portion, however, helps me to look back at the past and what happened in a different light. More of a lessons learned and a sadness of time lost and so forth rather than with anger, bitterness, and resentment.
> 
> Hope that helps in some way.


It does, thank you. I pretty much have forgiven him for the cheating, maybe having an affair myself took care of that. The harder part to get past is the lying, blaming, and manipulation. All that took away my right to make an informed decision about my life based on the truth. It's as if I wasn't even a real person to him, just someone he didn't want to lose because I took care of the children. He sure as heck didn't love me, never even said the words until I cheated. That's when he suddenly realized that he wanted me, because someone else did. It's more complicated than that, I know I'm not being very generous to him. But that's what I'm still struggling to get past. I now have to forgive myself as well for what I did and I can't help but blame him sometimes for that as well. 
There are some bright spots in all this though. I'm a stronger, better person than I was because of what happened. I worked hard to complete a masters program and now have a secure job. I'm also more honest in all my relationships after a lot of therapy made me realize that I wasn't a good communicator and tended to avoid confrontation. All good things. I do care very much for my husband, but it remains to be seen if he can make the changes he needs to make in order for us to have a new, different marriage. Right now, I'm mostly focusing on me and my children. I think I'll know what to do after next year.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

Music_Man said:


> You mentioned 'forgive and forget'. Well, like you, I've not been a forgiving person. So, it was difficult- to put it mildly- to decide to take the path of forgiveness in my situation. And you know what? It changed me. It opened up my healing in ways I never expected. It's hard to describe, other than to say it's been like having a 10 ton weight removed.
> 
> The forgetting part- that's another story entirely. I'll never forget. There's no amount of counseling or self-help books or whatever that can erase that. The forgiveness portion, however, helps me to look back at the past and what happened in a different light. More of a lessons learned and a sadness of time lost and so forth rather than with anger, bitterness, and resentment.
> 
> Hope that helps in some way.


Forgiveness is necessary not an option. Mandatory I’d reconciliation is your objective. @Music_Man you are 100% correct, you will never forget. You just have to focus on the positives, however, you will trigger from time to time. As time moves on you will trigger less.


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## Big10 (Nov 30, 2017)

No Longer Lonely Husband said:


> Forgiveness is necessary not an option. Mandatory I’d reconciliation is your objective. @Music_Man you are 100% correct, you will never forget. You just have to focus on the positives, however, you will trigger from time to time. As time moves on you will trigger less.


Does your wife seem remorseful for having a affair. My wife seems to be more remorseful the older we get and more open to talking about our marriage. Over the past 4 months we have really been working on us. 

This weekend was nothing more than awesome. I would rate the weekend we had as good as our honeymoon 19 years ago. We had a connection you could feel in her communication, eye contact and the way she would kiss me. While I’m at work today she sends me a text “I’ve never been so in love”

Weekends like this tend to make it easier to forget about the past and forgiveness a lot easier.


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## No Longer Lonely Husband (Nov 3, 2015)

My wife was super remorseful. Thankfully, we are doing great. Our communication has improved, and we are still going to our MC every two weeks and this has been most helpful.


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