# Boundaries & Discipline in a part-time divided family



## madimoff

I really don’t know if it’s me losing my grip on what’s acceptable behaviour or if I’m justified in being at the end of my tether, but tonight, the latest in a long series of clashes occurred between me and my 8 year old son.
He’s bright, seemingly happy (barring being upset by arguments, fights etc between his Dad - my partner, and me) active and doing well in a bilingual educational system.
However what I see as the problem is partly me wanting to ensure he has the kind of table manners, behaviour (nose blowing, picking up his own rubbish etc) as I was brought up with which doesn’t totally coincide with his Dad’s view on it; but also partly – and I’d say mostly – that he plays his Dad & me off against each other when it comes to discipline.
He’s his Dad’s only child & the apple of his eye, understandably because he was born when my partner was mid-40s; I have other older children, left home now, from my ex-marriage.
My partner’s upbringing was full of tension between his own mum & dad & their standard of living was relatively lowly whereas my partner’s worked hard & thanks to his effort and brains, we’re comfortable. So that’s where the question of spoiling rears its head.
We don’t all live together all the time, he lives in our home country & plies to & fro spending about half the time with us – so when he’s here the discipline tends to be somewhat slacker because he (a) arrives with treats; not big ones but nonetheless they are pretty much guaranteed (b) for whatever reason (probably down to my methods, which my OH says could do with tweaking) gets a far better reaction when he asks our son to do homework, help in the garden, whatever & (c) what happened tonight: he’s at his other base & son & I get into a dingdong about showering (he’d had sports and it’s been agreed with Dad that on nights with sports he has to shower) and the argument about tv console gaming to be postponed until after shower, etc, ends up with me grabbing at his sweatshirt to propel him back into the bathroom, him kicking me, kicking my slippers at me, & after some 20 minutes of straight refusal to do what I asked, finally he went to bed – unwashed - muttering about the punishment I’d imposed, which was to deny him one of his weekend activities (but of course he was exaggerating what I’d actually said) .
Now having written this I know I don’t come out smelling of roses; I lost my cool with him not for the first time, shouted unpleasantly and shouldn’t do either But after the best part of 4+ years semi-single-parenting I’m losing all hope I’ll ever turn things round.
What does his dad say?
Well when here he tries very hard to ensure *** knows he should do what I say not only what Dad says; quite often on the phone he’ll reinforce this.
But I actually find myself wondering what exactly, in words of one syllable, am I supposed to do when he out and out refuses to do what he’s been asked? What am I supposed to do when he answers back?
I should know all of this, I’m plenty old and experienced enough, but OMG I’m struggling!


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## turnera

You'll have to put forward a united front, of course, which will require you sitting down with SO and hammering out agreed-upon ways of dealing with things; if your SO deviates, you pull him aside and talk to him about it, out of earshot.

On your own, you'll have to be even more stern. If he's kicking you at this age, you are going to have to be much more authoritarian. I hope that, for kicking you, he now has to (1) write you a letter of apology, (2) go without any electronics for at least a week, (3) be grounded from friends and any non-regulated activities for at least a week, and (4) call his father and tell him what he did to you.

When he answers back, you NEVER raise your voice, you use LOGIC to explain why HE has just acted his way into a lot of consequences, and you put the fear of God into him. I would tell him that if he hits you again, you will call the police and let them deal with him since Dad isn't around. And then DO it, if he tries you on it.


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## Mom6547

turnera said:


> You'll have to put forward a united front, of course, which will require you sitting down with SO and hammering out agreed-upon ways of dealing with things; if your SO deviates, you pull him aside and talk to him about it, out of earshot.
> 
> On your own, you'll have to be even more stern.
> [/quote[
> I disagree with this. Not STERN, FIRM.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If he's kicking you at this age, you are going to have to be much more authoritarian. I hope that, for kicking you, he now has to (1) write you a letter of apology, (2) go without any electronics for at least a week, (3) be grounded from friends and any non-regulated activities for at least a week, and (4) call his father and tell him what he did to you.
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this as well. Authoritarian is an automatic barrier to cooperation. First as it relates to the hitting incident. Leave however you handled it in the moment and move on. You need a decent, comprehensive discipline plan.
> 
> Kids need form limits. But they don't need authoritarian. There is no need to pitch battles that will be barriers to cooperation.
> 
> My standard book recommendations...
> 
> Amazon.com: Discipline for Life : Getting it Right with Children (9781887069069): Madelyn Swift: Books
> 
> Amazon.com: Setting Limits: How to Raise Responsible, Independent Children by Providing Clear Boundaries (Revised and Expanded Second Edition) (0086874512122): Robert J. Mackenzie: Books
> 
> Amazon.com: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk (9780380811960): Adele Faber, Elaine Mazlish: Books
Click to expand...


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## madimoff

I think the idea of a united front is kind of there but not so convincing that we can make too much of it - and I think firm is good (and more likely to keep OH on side) but currently I'm failing dismally, whether because of the way I implement or what I just don't know
The phrase 'barriers to co-operation is one I think both OH & I would actually be keen to acknowledge and of course avoid

Lastly, and with apologies for third world comms, if anyone can paraphrase any salient points from any of these publications, I'd be most grateful; I'll make a note of the titles and hope to acquire but it won't be instant, not in these 'ere parts! So anything online will be most appreciated!


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## turnera

I'll disagree with the disagree. With the father out of the picture half the time, and with him being a Disney Dad when he IS around, she has an even harder time being seen as any sort of authority figure. If she doesn't instill this respect in him now, he'll be on the streets robbing houses in 3 or 4 years.


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## Mom6547

madimoff said:


> I think the idea of a united front is kind of there but not so convincing that we can make too much of it -


United front is ideal, no DOUBT. But may be undoable in your situation. By no means should it equate to dropping standards to the lowest common denominator. Kids are pretty flexible and will learn what rolls with Dad might not roll with Mom.



> and I think firm is good (and more likely to keep OH on side) but currently I'm failing dismally, whether because of the way I implement or what I just don't know
> The phrase 'barriers to co-operation is one I think both OH & I would actually be keen to acknowledge and of course avoid


Let us not mistake that with being a pansy ass.  The How to Talk book talks a good deal about barriers to cooperation. Good read.



> Lastly, and with apologies for third world comms, if anyone can paraphrase any salient points from any of these publications, I'd be most grateful; I'll make a note of the titles and hope to acquire but it won't be instant, not in these 'ere parts! So anything online will be most appreciated!


Wow. That is a tough request. Let me think on that.


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## madimoff

turnera said:


> I'll disagree with the disagree. With the father out of the picture half the time, and with him being a Disney Dad when he IS around, she has an even harder time being seen as any sort of authority figure. If she doesn't instill this respect in him now, he'll be on the streets robbing houses in 3 or 4 years.


Though I may have kind of set it up, I don't think equating him to a Disney Dad is really fair; he has a tendency to spoil more than I do in visible terms but we possibly both do some of the time (tell me a parent that doesn't sometimes) - but he has a rather extreme temper and reaction process which might have contributed - I'm really not laying this a definite - to *** not wanting to anger him yet my excesses of shouting ets are somehow ok;
Plus he does more of the bog standard stuff than he ever has previously - making meals, ironing, always plays football or whatever with ***, & so on
It's the coming & going that is the (maybe not Disney) difficult bit, in my view


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## Mom6547

turnera said:


> I'll disagree with the disagree. With the father out of the picture half the time, and with him being a Disney Dad when he IS around, she has an even harder time being seen as any sort of authority figure. If she doesn't instill this respect in him now, he'll be on the streets robbing houses in 3 or 4 years.


I guess we may have a hang up on what "authoritarian" means. I do not advocate failing to do the job of effective discipline. It is CRUCIAL. No doubt. But one can swing the pendulum so far as to add unnecessary resistance. Who wants to be pitched in battles all the time? There is a balance to be struck between fostering the natural desire (perhaps temporarily squelched) to be helpful and feel pride in contribution and the doling of consequences for failure of responsibility.


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## greeneyeddolphin

It needs to be clear that you two are a united front, a solid united front. My first suggestion toward that end would be to set a rule between you and your SO that whatever punishment one of you sets, the other follows through, regardless of whether they agree or think it's too harsh/lenient. If you strongly disagree on anything regarding son, take the disagreement out of his earshot. If he knows you two are on different pages regarding punishment, activities, etc., he's going to use that to play you off each other. If he knows that you two are going to back each other up regardless, then he'll know he can't get away with anything. 

Next, you and your SO need to communicate very clearly about your son: whether you talk every day or every other day or whatever, you need to update your SO on anything your son has done: things he did wrong & the consequences, things he did right & the reward, things he did right or wrong that you're not sure how to handle and want his input on. When he's home, if he doles out a consequence or reward, he needs to keep you informed of it as well. 

When son comes to you and asks for something, if you say no, you need to inform SO, so that he will know that you told son no, and if son then goes to him, he can also say no, so that son doesn't go back and forth between parents to get the answer he wants. Or use the "I need to talk to your father" before you answer son so that he'll know ahead of time that going to Dad won't make a difference.


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## madimoff

atruckersgirl said:


> It needs to be clear that you two are a united front, a solid united front. My first suggestion toward that end would be to set a rule between you and your SO that whatever punishment one of you sets, the other follows through, regardless of whether they agree or think it's too harsh/lenient. If you strongly disagree on anything regarding son, take the disagreement out of his earshot. If he knows you two are on different pages regarding punishment, activities, etc., he's going to use that to play you off each other. If he knows that you two are going to back each other up regardless, then he'll know he can't get away with anything.
> 
> Next, you and your SO need to communicate very clearly about your son: whether you talk every day or every other day or whatever, you need to update your SO on anything your son has done: things he did wrong & the consequences, things he did right & the reward, things he did right or wrong that you're not sure how to handle and want his input on. When he's home, if he doles out a consequence or reward, he needs to keep you informed of it as well.
> 
> When son comes to you and asks for something, if you say no, you need to inform SO, so that he will know that you told son no, and if son then goes to him, he can also say no, so that son doesn't go back and forth between parents to get the answer he wants. Or use the "I need to talk to your father" before you answer son so that he'll know ahead of time that going to Dad won't make a difference.



Yip, every word yip! Just wish I could guarantee we'll keep to it - I'll show him your post (OH, not son!) when the time seems right, which it probably isn't right now but thank you


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## Mom6547

If you can accomplish what atruckersgirl suggests, then OMG that would be awesome.


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## madimoff

fwiw, as the new day started I kept very cool; woke littl'un early enough that he could have the shower he declined last night, all friendly chatty everything ready for him (bag, clothes, etc) yet it still didn't persuade him to wash despite explaining very calmly that dad & I expect him to not go to school smelly the days(after) he has sports & that I'd given him plenty of time to shower
He repeated what was the trigger to things going wrong yesterday, namely that he was on the phone to dad, they'd spoken about me suggesting he should have a short time on his Wii but I always insist he showers first because if it happens the other way round the shower gets 'forgotten' or becomes a bone of contention
When I'd come off the phone with his dad, only a few minutes later, and said ok have a shower, he was already playing games & so I went to insist, he complained he'd only had a couple of minutes and after some toing and froing it turned out dad had said to him ok go and have your five minutes (or at least that's what he told me, and dad gets too stressed about all the discipline thing for me to ring back immediately & check)
So essentially
Dad made a decision from afar which I didn't know about - in theory it should make no difference shower first or Wii but given I didn't know the conversation I thought it was reasonable to tell him what I wanted him to do & expect him to comply
When the conflicting instructions became apparent, I guess maybe I should have thought 'ok what does it matter' but I bridle because of it being an issue then I suppose you could say it's me that escalates because I feel undermined
He went to school with no wash, no shower & I simply said well I'm going to have to speak to dad about all of this
Watch this space!


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## greeneyeddolphin

Well, two things about what you describe here: 

1. Dad should have told you what he told son. He should have asked son to put you on the phone. I would ask Dad, and if Dad says he didn't tell him that, you need to discipline son for lying. 

2. If he doesn't want to shower, let him learn what happens when someone doesn't shower. If he's stinky, at that age, I assure you one of the kids (if not more than one!) at school will let him know, and not very nicely. It'll only take a couple of times of that happening for him to figure out that he doesn't like that and start taking showers. 

I have a 7 & almost 10 yr old, and believe me, those two are not shy about telling someone if they smell, or have food on their face, are dirty, etc. Kids don't have much of a tact filter for that kind of thing. And sometimes the best way for a kid to learn to do something is for his peers to make a big deal out of it rather than Mom making a big deal out of it. So, next time he doesn't want to shower, just say "Ok. Your choice."


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## turnera

Yeah, I'm not too uptight about showers either, but I do understand your concern.

But on the parent front, the Wii needs to be looked at as a reward, NOT a given. If you do A, B, and C every day, you get to do Wii. If you CHOOSE not to do A, B, and C, you also forego your time on Wii.

It's that simple. I always told DD20 that she wasn't allowed to turn the tv on (and later computer) until the homework was done. It was just a flat rule, no discussion, and it was LOGICAL. There was a REASON behind it. Homework was her JOB. Eating food was her job. Chores were her job. As long as she took the responsibility to see that her 'jobs' were done, she could negotiate as much tv and computer as she wanted. But she KNEW the one flat (unbendable) rule, and she had to follow it.



> So, next time he doesn't want to shower, just say "Ok. Your choice."


I'm fine with this, as I said, but I would suggest you go one step further: "Your choice. But that means you forfeit your Wii time for today, too."

See, it's the wiggle room, the 'bendableness,' that his dad is throwing in there and making room for contention. 

I would make that priority #1 - for you and Dad to sit down and come up with the flat rules.


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## madimoff

Another *uck up, probably down to me - picked him up after school me happy as larry cos I'd been invited (1st time) to lunch with some of his classmates' mums and got various acceptances of his birthday party invitations; then another mum spoke to me outside school on the same subject (1st time we'd spoken - not my native language!!) & when he came out, also happy & bouncy, I forgot to check for homework in his bag; didn't realise til home that he'd not put it in but it's his dad's unbending (probably reasonable) rule that WE, not son, check bag for notes, homework etc---- so a weekend having to tell dad that, can't do his homework which is due Monday, etc etc on top of more arguments in the car OMG wine beckons


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## madimoff

btw, turnera your thoughts on Wii good though I don't like the thought of imposing, means having to justify on phone to dad just when he and I have been 'naughty texting' for the first time in yonks & yonks as a precursor to getting back on track--- OMG as I said!


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## turnera

I don't follow.


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## madimoff

We have had a long period of very low sex life (long story, think I've posted somewhere else in TAM but not sure) & I just recently decided to trust that putting sex back would allow OH to put affection, reassurance, etc, back (haven't put into action yet, hope to next week! ---- thing is, he is very easily stressed; I reckon he's HSP or some other identifiable type so me having to explain my discipline means *** doesn't have either his sports this weekend or his Wii some of the time becomes a big deal in my head and threatens to scupper the sex plans, because conflict is a big turnoff to me

(or have I got it wrong and it was someone else who suggested using 'timed' Wii sessions or something)
Thing is I get totally messed up when this discipline thing explodes these days - end up not parenting very well, it must be evident to *** that he's got the upper hand over me sometimes and that's not good for him or me


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## turnera

Yeah, never let the kid think he controls things. He'll resent you for not being the parent.

I didn't say to time the Wii - I said to simply set up ground rules: You do your homework, you do your chores, and you ________ (eat your meal, take your shower, fill in the blank); and THEN you can have Wii time.

Period.

You're the parent. 

There IS no negotiation (or shouldn't be) on whether the homework, chores, and eating get done. They JUST DO.

Daily.

THEN, if he is doing his 'requirements,' he gets to enjoy PRIVILEGES, including Wii time. 

Period.

Not before, and not unless.

IF he chooses not to do homework, he has a consequence: straight to bed, no dinner, no phone, no computer, whatever you decide is appropriate. 

He's too old to hold the pencil in his hand and MAKE him write. At his age, you explain what's expected, you explain the consequences if he chooses not to do what's expected, and you FOLLOW YOUR OWN RULES.

Sometimes you have to up the ante. If he decides, for instance, to not do homework for a night, he goes to bed without dinner. If he decides to not do homework for a week, well, then you upgrade the consequences and ground him and take the door off his room or something.

In the end, he has to understand that YOU are only reacting to HIM. And HE has control over his own actions, but then he also can expect CONSEQUENCES (or benefits, such as Wii time) for those actions.

This is all logic-based. He needs to start seeing the logic in following your rules. For his own benefit.


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## turnera

Here's something you can pass on to your husband, regarding the homework. I've never forgotten it, it's so powerful.

I attended a PTA meeting at DD20's elementary school long ago. The speaker was some sort of family therapy guy, I don't remember. Anyway, he got up and said that he'd been at the school all day. Sitting in the office, watching kids come and go, parents come and go, all that jazz. He said he couldn't believe how many kids came into the office to call Mom (or Dad) because they forgot their lunch or their homework. He also couldn't believe how many parents BROUGHT their kids' homework or lunch. 

He asked us to consider what we are doing, by 'protecting' our kids from their own consequences. If a kid gets a 0 on a math homework in 2nd grade, what's going to happen? Is he going to fail 2nd grade? If a kid forgets his lunch and instead gets the mandated peanut butter and jelly sandwich the school provides if you forget your lunch, is he going to suffer lifelong issues?

The answer is no. But what WILL happen is that the kid will be embarrassed at getting a 0 and will be more likely to remember his homework the next day. The kid will be upset that Billy gets a Lunchable while he eats a PB&J, so he'll be more likely to remember his lunch the next day.

He said, you can't THINK for them. You can't FIX things and expect THEM to learn from it.

Then he said, Do you want them to learn their lessons now when it's a zero on a 2nd grade paper, or later when it's getting arrested for pot because they never had any consequences growing up? Consequences get bigger as you get older.


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## madimoff

Thanks everyone for your contributions; I'm not dipping out, just a bit mashed after the day but I really value the input and (when it seems appropriate - there are too many agendas flying about, what with sex & continuing relationship & all!) will definitely show my OH what others think of our situation


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## greeneyeddolphin

OK, I want to make sure I understand correctly. In your most recent replies, you're talking about sex. The way I'm reading what you wrote, it sounds as though you're saying you don't want to discipline your son because it might interfere with your sex life? Please correct me if I'm reading that wrong. I know it is all too easy to read something wrong. 

If, however, I did read that correctly, and you're worried that disciplining your son will lead to conflict that might mean you and your partner won't have sex...please, please, please, do not not discipline your son just so you can have sex. Your son learning respect, manners, integrity, hygiene, etc. is vital to him growing up to be a productive, decent person. 

I know sex is great and all, but you cannot let it be a deciding factor in when and how to discipline your son. Not only is it just not right, but it also leads him to eventually realize that if Mom thinks she's gonna get some, she just won't discipline him, so that's the best time to act out and do whatever he wants. 

And now that I've lectured you (so sorry for that btw...I just tend to be a bit mouthy...or I guess on here, that would be fingery? Typy? I don't know. ), I will say that if I read what you were saying wrong, then I sincerely apologize for everything I just said. 

You do need to set consistent rules and boundaries, though. One thing that has worked for us: My boyfriend is an OTR truck driver, so he's gone quite a bit. In order to avoid me having to discuss with him every time our 7 & almost 10 yr olds have done something that warrants a consequence, we set some basic rules and have discussed between us appropriate consequences for breaking those rules. Some of the rules are: they must show respect; they must keep their things picked up and put away in whatever rooms their stuff is in; they must do homework before they get on the computer or the Wii. Some of the consequences are: time spent in their room; computer or Wii time taken away for the day/week/weekend; grounded from outside for the day/week/weekend; a spanking (depending on what they did and how much other misbehavior has already gone on. 

This does two things: It means that when my boyfriend is home, there is still consistent discipline. He isn't put in a position of having to determine a consequence on his own. And it means that the kids know that we are on the same page. They know that whatever my punishment is, Dad's backing me up, and whatever his is, I'm backing him up. They won't go behind either of our backs because they know we'll talk. Often, when they ask for something they'll hear "What did Mom/Dad say?" And they know that if they say "oh, they said it's ok" we WILL talk at some point, and now they will be in trouble for whatever they did AND for lying. 

And...ok, this late at night, I get way too wordy. Sorry. I'm done.


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## turnera

Exactly what I was saying. So now you have consensus!


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## madimoff

ATg & Turnera thanks both as I'm saying with every post at the moment, I've got dire internet connection so this is costing a bunch on a dongle!! will come back at greater length another time but just to answer the sex thing, no I absolutely have not, am not and will not not discipline in order to smooth things so we have sex, what I was trying (rather ineptly) to indicate was that this has all kind of ballooned to appalling discipline issues just when I'm grasping the mettle of attempting to restore our sex life despite some emotional coldness from OH
Merely expressing a kind of 'bloody bad timing' kind of thought - no more! If I didn't have a handle on what I SHOULD be (rather than am) doing we possibly wouldn't have half the problems we have but then 8yo might not have the boundaries he (nearly) has


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## madimoff

Back again: any and all advice & input most welcome, even negative - I'm sinking!
This evening started ok; picked son from sports, he'd forgotten lunchbag, went to get it I get stressful business call from states delaying our leaving but once have already left realise forgot to check for homework, he admits has forgotten, go back & pick it up. Text OH explaining will be late home, he acknowledges good thing I checked ref homework
When home (late, of course) I unpack car of supermarket-load, son changes from uniform to home clothes, supposedly starts homework but immediately wants my internet input (which I oblige with)
Turns out he can't do much because it needs computer & printer (mine's out of action at present) so that - school date allows it - means no further homework
EXCEPT I check homework book & he's more to do - gets on & does it half heartedly having been dragged from his tv console
Gets to supper time, eats with complaint, wants to watch a particular tv prog which I turn off to tell him I'll allow IF at the end he showers, gets in pjs then speaks on phone to both grannies plus dad THEN he'll get requested pudding
Having typed this so far I think it looks as if I'm not parenting very well, or decisively - anyway -
MAJOR wobbly thrown at end of permitted prog, involving me turning circles attempting to text dad with son grabbing at me etc, table gets knocked over & broken, I eventually text dad to say son not getting ready for bed so won't be speaking tonight (worth mentioning mobile phone game got in the way of sensible father-son conversation last night)
dad's reply 'finexx'
Son, I guess feeling guilty about table etc, goes & showers & is mega pissed off I've said no call to dad (it wouldn't go well if son is upset & dad stressed that son is upset yada yada)
------- cut to now; I've (I think) made major progress at long distance leading us both to anticipate an affectionate time when he's here later this week but I just kind of know this will come up on the phone & get in the way of 'us'
I know, before anyone says it, children are a or the priority but I suppose having been long-winded, my question is this:
How is it possible to 'park' family issues so 'couple' time is not tainted?


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## turnera

By agreeing beforehand how you will handle each and every situation. That way. when ABC turns up, you do what you two adults agreed on to do; then there's no real reason to go on about it on the phone with Dad. 

By sitting SON down ahead of time and explaining what's expected of him, and what consequences will be, so he knows AHEAD of time what he's facing.

As far as the day's events...can I suggest that TV and Internet and games are NOT turned on until YOU have finished the things YOU need to get done? And can I also suggest that you give your son some chores - either on his own or helping you - that he is expected to do when he gets home? That way, he is invested in helping you get the house under control, it's important for him to learn responsibilities/chores, and you are then available to sit down with him (or near him) while he does his homework. You'll both be calmer, there will be less chance of mixing things up and the two of you getting on each other's bad side.


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## madimoff

turnera said:


> By agreeing beforehand how you will handle each and every situation. That way. when ABC turns up, you do what you two adults agreed on to do; then there's no real reason to go on about it on the phone with Dad.
> 
> By sitting SON down ahead of time and explaining what's expected of him, and what consequences will be, so he knows AHEAD of time what he's facing.
> 
> As far as the day's events...can I suggest that TV and Internet and games are NOT turned on until YOU have finished the things YOU need to get done? And can I also suggest that you give your son some chores - either on his own or helping you - that he is expected to do when he gets home? That way, he is invested in helping you get the house under control, it's important for him to learn responsibilities/chores, and you are then available to sit down with him (or near him) while he does his homework. You'll both be calmer, there will be less chance of mixing things up and the two of you getting on each other's bad side.


Chores- now there's a good word! Thank you and thank you again


My only addendum would be we have significant driving time which in the morning is reasonable to use for multiplication tables, etc, and in the afternoon not unreasonable for him to either look at homework or 'turn off' for a while - - - but means there is limited 'home' time for either homework or anything else#


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## turnera

Well, if you have him helping you do what needs to be done when you get home, it should free up some time so you can have together time. For homework, reading a book together, eating dinner at the table so you can talk about the day and bond...all important things.

He can help you pick up clothes, empty trash, put clothes in the drhyer, empty the dishwasher from the night before...he could even read you a book while YOU do these things. 

It just seems like a lot of his time revolves around TV, games, and Internet. Nothing wrong with that, necessarily...but I'm old school. I'm old enough to remember when we only had 3 tv channels, no VCR/DVD player, and no personal computers. We played outside without a whole suite of games and toys - we made up our own fun. We engaged with other people. We talked. I just think he could use some more of that. It might reduce his stress level, and help him bond with you.


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## madimoff

Turnera -To deal with new tech, I agree with you to a point; I would like to be old school but accept kids almost 'need' to be kept up to the mark with IT etc, just to stay abreast of what they do at school & so on (and actually the games & tv are way more an issue than internet)

And on the rest, chores & so on, again I actually agree wholeheartedly but for whatever reason, my own deep low about stuff at the moment, parenting semi-single handed, general esteem & reassurance issues which of course shouldn't impact on son but kind of inevitably do - I almost don't know (read I don't know) where to start other than to have a discussion with his dad about boundaries, agree what is to be done & WHO is in charge when he's not here (major question there - input VERY welcome!) then actually do it rather than fearing failure so much I contribute to the downfall of the whole plan
I agree about bonding, quality time, on that too I flounder because at the end of the day I'm bushed (could do with losing some weight to help flagging energy levels but that's a n other issue) so basically just want to get him to bed so I can have wine, TV & 'zonk' time
Thanks this has been a bit of a misery-guts post but thanks for your input


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## turnera

You want to fix your weight and energy level...start going on walks with your son.

You want to fix your self esteem...find a good psychologist.

Look, I know it's not easy. Lord knows I'm the poster child for what NOT to do. But it's because I know what should be done, and don't, that I'm so insistent on others doing it right. You don't want to waste 30 years of your life like I've done in a relationship that leaves you exhausted, scared, walking on eggshells, insecure and just wanting 'out' time. Your son suffers from that. 

I used to tell myself my DD20 would be ok with my not acting on what I needed to do. I spent 2 hours on the phone with her last night, her in tears because HER self esteem suffered so much from all of the above, while I didn't take steps to take care of myself. 

I know it's tough to do it alone, but there ARE ways to get around that. It just takes some initiative. See if your church has a program for kids to go to. Join the YMCA - they have awesome kid programs, and you can exercise yourself while he's there; and they are very affordable. Go online to find local activities for your son to join. Talk to your neighbors and see if you can start up a babysitting co-op so you can each have some time off.

For being bushed, I so get it, but what I've been explaining to you WILL help with that. If you come straight home, the TWO of you get chores done, then homework, and then you can have some down time while he gets his game time. If you tell him ahead of time what you will and won't tolerate, he WILL listen to you! You just have to verbalize it!

My DH is the Disney Dad: "Honey, do you want to take a bath? Would you like to eat the broccoli? Do you wanna do your homework?"

Of course she said no at every turn. I finally stepped in and said "This can't go on. We WILL set up some rules and she WILL know that there is no getting around the rules."

Which included NO tv or computer until all your homework is done, period. Ever. She got it, once I said so, and never again fought me on that.

You try everything on your plate at least one bite. If you don't like it you don't have to eat it, but I WON'T fix you anything else. You'll go to bed hungry. Now she eats everything under the sun, because she learned to try things.

If you don't do your chores, you don't get to go to Sara's house. Period. I don't care if you do your chores or not, but YOU will be the one losing out. Your choice. She did her chores.

Where to start? Just tell your husband that, as the primary parent in charge most of the time, you are setting up chores for your son, you are setting up homework rules (no computer/tv until done).

That's all you have to do! Then relay it to son and back up your word.


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## turnera

btw, I didn't mean to not let him have access to high tech. I just meant that, from what you describe, ALL he wants to do is high tech, and that's not a healthy balance. 

If my daughter wanted to spend the whole Saturday watching tv, I would just go turn it off after 2 hours and say 'Go outside.' Up to her to figure out what to do with herself outside (unless I went out with her and had a picnic or did cloud watching or whatever).

Growing up, she had strict rules. In elementary school, 30 minutes of tv on weeknights, 2 hours on weekend. In junior high, an hour of tv/computer on weeknights, 4 hours on weekend. In high school, I didn't need to do it any more because by then she self-regulated herself. By then, she chose friends or books or skateboarding or rollerblading or walking the dog half the time.

These rules have to come from you. Kids EXPECT them to come from you and many will actually experience anxiety if it doesn't. Just like your son is doing, with the lack of clear rules, and two parents not agreeing on a policy.


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## madimoff

Thanks again and I'm sorry this seems to have been all on you; I'm grateful for that but I'm going to spend some time checking back why you're on TAM!!! 

FWIW I picked him up from school today & there was a bit of stress about upcoming party but once home (before, actually) I'd told him there would be no tv no console etc, homework was #1 priority====== took a couple of difficult hours (only because he was tired, it got late etc; fewer disagreements than usual) before it was all sorted, including a couple of phone calls from dad
I'd highlight, block capital and underline this not only for us but for any couple struggling: is this you:

lack of clear rules, and 2 parents disagreeing on a policy
One factor hard to explain is language: little'un is in what amounts to a bilingual system and my every waking moment is facing conversations not in my native tongue (which OH barely attempts though understands more than he speaks) - and if you've ever experienced this you'll know how stressful this can be day to day

Thanks for your continued advice & support


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## turnera

Sounds like you did great! And don't worry, language issues can only get better, as time goes on!


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