# I let him destroy me



## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

After an incredibly difficult 2014 that included 4 major surgeries for me, I've realized that it was time to put my foot down about how neglected and used I've felt over the past 15 years of our relationship. Way to celebrate our 10 year anniversary, right?
I have done everything I can to support my husband's career, dreams, and happiness. Sadly, that included trying desperately to keep up with his high sex drive not just when I had no interest in sex, but while in real pain. No matter how hard I tried, I was never good enough for him...the more I gave, the more he wanted/needed. I felt responsible for his physiological response to not getting a daily release. This included horrible grumpiness, sleep problems, concentration problems, and angry outbursts at me and the kids. He is otherwise the nicest guy and an awesome father, so I felt obligated to have sex with him to prevent these issues and to avoid building resentment. After 10 years, he is still resentful that he hasn't gotten more out of me (nevermind the three kids, big house, his dream job, and everything else he has ever wished for) and my resentment has blown sky high while my love for him has disappeared. Going into these surgeries, he promised that he had my back, but even while going through painful recoveries, his sex needs were a recurring topic. He could somehow completely ignore my physical and mental pain and only see through one eye. 

He has recently realized so many places he has screwed up and let me down and he wants to fix things, but I am so filled with anger and distrust, that I just want as much space as possible. When we try to talk, I clearly see that he still doesn't understand what I'm trying to tell him and I get too angry to have a civil discussion (until this year, we've only fought 2-3x) and I absolutely hate the person I've become around him. I feel like if it weren't for the kids, I'd pack my bags and leave, but we live in a small town in Kansas. If this marriage doesn't make it, there's no way I can stay here and I could never take his kids from him. He is an amazing father. I feel so stuck and bitterly angry. I hate acting like a b****, but when I controlled by behavior, he assumed everything was magically better and started pushing me for quality time together. I don't know how to move forward.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

Have you tried marriage counseling? Is he open to it? I would suggest try marriage counseling for 6 months (consecutively) & then see where the marriage is at that point. Are you willing to give marriage counseling a try?


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

He's come to my therapy sessions several times. I'm not sure what benefit there would be to going to a different therapist, but he is seeing someone for personal therapy.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Welcome to the forum and sorry to hear about your health issues.



Discombobulated said:


> After an incredibly difficult 2014 that included 4 major surgeries for me, I've realized that it was time to put my foot down about how neglected and used I've felt over the past 15 years of our relationship. Way to celebrate our 10 year anniversary, right?


Putting a foot down = recognizing YOU are doing something wrong (not saying he isn't)



Discombobulated said:


> I have done everything I can to support my husband's career, dreams, and happiness. Sadly, that included trying desperately to keep up with his high sex drive not just when I had no interest in sex, but while in real pain. No matter how hard I tried, I was never good enough for him...the more I gave, the more he wanted/needed.


Remember, Intimacy is men's ultimate way of expressing love. You gave him love, and yes, most men will want/desire more (as much as they can get).

He assumes that you love it as much as he does......mind you, perhaps not during pain, but in general you should feel that connection during intimacy as well.

if you don't and it has become "duty" sex of some kind....you need to figure out WHY.



Discombobulated said:


> I felt responsible for his physiological response to not getting a daily release. This included horrible grumpiness, sleep problems, concentration problems, and angry outbursts at me and the kids.


Why did you feel responsible?



Discombobulated said:


> He is otherwise the nicest guy and an awesome father, so I felt obligated to have sex with him to prevent these issues and to avoid building resentment. After 10 years, he is still resentful that he hasn't gotten more out of me (nevermind the three kids, big house, his dream job, and everything else he has ever wished for) and my resentment has blown sky high while my love for him has disappeared. Going into these surgeries, he promised that he had my back, but even while going through painful recoveries, his sex needs were a recurring topic. He could somehow completely ignore my physical and mental pain and only see through one eye.


Again, why are you complaining about 2 people in a relationship connecting on intimate level? 

If you were in too much pain, you simply tell him you can't do it.....not just do it.



Discombobulated said:


> He has recently realized so many places he has screwed up and let me down and he wants to fix things, but I am so filled with anger and distrust, that I just want as much space as possible. When we try to talk, I clearly see that he still doesn't understand what I'm trying to tell him and I get *too angry to have a civil discussion* (until this year, we've only fought 2-3x) and I absolutely hate the person I've become around him.


Unless you address this problem (of yours)......there is 0 chance for this marriage to get better.

i would highly suggest that you do as well. Without communication (or intimacy) there IS no relationship.

I would recommend "fighting rules" Both of you sit down and define them. For example, no anger, no screaming, no name calling, focus on the issue at hand, not in front of kids.....figure out the rest.

Not sure about you, but I have NEVEr made a smart decision while in anger.

Get a grip on yourself, keep it cool. Your goal is to "have a adult/mature conversation with your love one".

Read this: 
Relationship Article - Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, Stonewalling | The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse



Discombobulated said:


> *I feel like if it weren't for the kids, *I'd pack my bags and leave, but we live in a small town in Kansas. If this marriage doesn't make it, there's no way I can stay here and I could never take his kids from him. He is an amazing father. I feel so stuck and bitterly angry. I hate acting like a b****, but when I controlled by behavior, he assumed everything was magically better and started pushing me for quality time together. I don't know how to move forward.


I don't agree with what's in bold......so common around here.

Look, your kids will be ok. Meanwhile, TODAY they are learning relationships FROM YOU. By staying, you are teaching them some pretty bad behavior that seems like the NORM to them. They will soak it up and apply it to their relationships.

Current situation is NOT HEALTHY AS IT IS.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Are there any women out there who don't feel resentment towards their husbands after 10-15 years? Do ANY women remain in love with their men? I sincerely do not think so.

Why we can't we teach young couples that there is a VERY HIGH probability this will happen? It shocks them ALL


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Are there any women out there who don't feel resentment towards their husbands after 10-15 years? Do ANY women remain in love with their men? I sincerely do not think so.
> 
> Why we can't we teach young couples that there is a VERY HIGH probability this will happen? It shocks them ALL


There is a high probability that the men take more than they give back? Expect everything for little return? Get to fulfill their hopes and dreams while the woman supports him and gives up her own hopes and dreams? Yet never recognizes her efforts?


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## DayDream (May 25, 2011)

Sweetheart...he has not destroyed you yet. You just need help getting through this, and this place will help greatly if you listen.


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## Starstarfish (Apr 19, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Are there any women out there who don't feel resentment towards their husbands after 10-15 years? Do ANY women remain in love with their men? I sincerely do not think so.
> 
> Why we can't we teach young couples that there is a VERY HIGH probability this will happen? It shocks them ALL


That's got to be one of the most amazingly unhelpful troll comments on a thread I've seen of late, and that's probably saying something.

If your personal mission in life is to let young couples know all about what you know about women, start a blog. But the purpose of this forum, as far as I'm aware is to encourage health marriage and relationships.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Are there any women out there who don't feel resentment towards their husbands after 10-15 years? Do ANY women remain in love with their men? I sincerely do not think so.
> 
> Why we can't we teach young couples that there is a VERY HIGH probability this will happen? It shocks them ALL


Of course there are women out there who don't.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Discombobulated said:


> Going into these surgeries, he promised that he had my back, but even while going through painful recoveries, his sex needs were a recurring topic. He could somehow completely ignore my physical and mental pain and only see through one eye.


Could you please clarify this? Did he just talk about his sexual needs when in recovery, but you did not have sex with him during recovery?

Or did he badger you about it until you had sex with him during your recovery?


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

From what I can tell (and what he's told me), my biggest mistake in this marriage is enabling him to continue ignoring my needs. We had a very active sex life for the first 5 years. I got pregnant on our honeymoon and naturally things slowed down as our lifestyle changed. After I'd healed from a difficult c-section recovery, we picked back up to 3-5x a week, but I was already feeling a sense of obligation at that point. I would have been happier once a week or less, but that was his number one emotional need and I didn't want him resenting me or stepping out of our relationship again (he cheated on me about a year into our relationship). For about a year when we were TTC our 2nd child, we had sex pretty much daily (with similar frequency while TTC our 3rd), but I had postpartum depression issues, frequent migraines, and severe arthritis flare ups in my back that, combined with being a work from home mom, killed any desire. Still, I did my best to keep him happy while I was miserable. I was scared to say no.

So, yeah, I screwed up on that front, but my attempts to explain my side were routinely met with a grumpy, mopey, completely unattractive man. I've always known that sex (sex, not intimacy...nothing short of sex fulfilled his needs) was the way he felt loved. I have no earthly idea how after the marriage prep we went through (I was a die hard MarriageBuilders.com student for 3 years before he proposed and involved him in all of the surveys and exercises in the books), he can still claim that he thought that was how I felt loved, too. We did the emotional needs questionnaires and I'm pretty sure sexual fulfillment wasn't even in my top 5 back when we were having sex 5x/week. He is fully aware that I've struggled with sex drive since our first child was born in 2005. We've bought endless creams and lotions, tried various birth control meds (until the migraines became an issue) and have messed with my hormone therapy several times. I've been to gynecologists, gps, endocrinologists, menopause specialist, etc., trying to chemically alter my broken, little self. Now that we haven't had sex for 2 months, I actually am feeling some desire, but nothing for him. I want nothing to do with him. His attempts to be close to me are making me want to run the other way. All of his annoying little habits are disgusting me. My sexual aversion has exploded into hate.
Anyhow, I had a hysterectomy in 2012 and went on hormone replacement therapy, but I had a mastectomy a year ago (Jan. 7), so my hormones have been a train wreck and I have been dealing with constant pain and depression all year. He stopped initiating sex a couple years ago because he would get so angry if I rejected him. I initiated too soon after my mastectomy because I felt bad for him. He could tell I was in pain and asked if I needed to stop. I said yes and his response was, "I'll hurry up." It was at that moment I knew sex had nothing to do with me. I hadn't felt an emotional connection to him during sex for most of our relationship. It became easier to tell him the hard truths, which I did as gently as possible. These mostly had to do with how much of an ogre he was during sex and how I desired some softness and actual intimacy.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Could you please clarify this? Did he just talk about his sexual needs when in recovery, but you did not have sex with him during recovery?
> 
> Or did he badger you about it until you had sex with him during your recovery?


He was his usual passive aggressive self. While I was in no shape to engage, he told me he'd been miserable for 8 years and felt unloved even now. When I started getting better and working my photography business (I could pretty much only get editing work done after the kids were in bed), he would give me clear, nonverbal signs that he wanted sex and if I said I wasn't up for it, he'd get grumpy, especially if I stayed up late enough to impede on his computer porn time.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

EleGirl, we both just spent a good deal of time on the MB forums, but our threads were closed because I wasn't willing to move forward with the 20-25 hours of UA they were recommending and we weren't ready to sign up for any of the paid services. I own His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters, but they were insisting I need the newer copies. When DH ignored their persistent questions about purchasing these, they got annoyed and insisted we didn't really want to fix our marriage. 
I found them to be very pushy toward the paid parts of MB.
Anyhow, he was willing to do everything they suggested, although we still have no earthly clue how to create even the minimum 15 hours of uninterrupted attention with three young kids, his tenure track faculty position, and my photography business, which has been the only thing making me happy lately.

I completely buy into their program (I especially appreciate feedback based on those principles) and I know that making the 15 hours of UA will help us. The big problem with that is I don't want to fall back in love with him until I feel confident that the changes he's made are genuine and sustainable. I'm terrified of slipping back into our old routines. I hate the person I became in this relationship and I hate the angry person I am now. I'm still working through that.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Discombobulated said:


> EleGirl, we both just spent a good deal of time on the MB forums, but our threads were closed because I wasn't willing to move forward with the 20-25 hours of UA they were recommending and we weren't ready to sign up for any of the paid services. I own His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters, but they were insisting I need the newer copies. When DH ignored their persistent questions about purchasing these, they got annoyed and insisted we didn't really want to fix our marriage.
> I found them to be very pushy toward the paid parts of MB.


That’s odd. Having posted a lot on MB, I’ve not seen anyone on the forum being pressured to get the paid services. It’s too bad that it happened to you.



Discombobulated said:


> Anyhow, he was willing to do everything they suggested, although we still have no earthly clue how to create even the minimum 15 hours of uninterrupted attention with three young kids, his tenure track faculty position, and my photography business, which has been the only thing making me happy lately.
> 
> I completely buy into their program (I especially appreciate feedback based on those principles) and I know that making the 15 hours of UA will help us. The big problem with that is I don't want to fall back in love with him until I feel confident that the changes he's made are genuine and sustainable. I'm terrified of slipping back into our old routines. I hate the person I became in this relationship and I hate the angry person I am now. I'm still working through that.


If you cannot do 15 hours, do some, anything. Just a few hours to start with. And work on yourself.

You do need to remember something while you work through this. You helped to create the martial problems. We teach others how to treat us. You taught your husband that it was ok for him to treat you this way. Now you are angry that he treated you the way you taught him to. If you take ownership of your part of this, I think you will heal from your anger much quicker.


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## Thebes (Apr 10, 2013)

Discombobulated said:


> He was his usual passive aggressive self. While I was in no shape to engage, he told me he'd been miserable for 8 years and felt unloved even now. When I started getting better and working my photography business (I could pretty much only get editing work done after the kids were in bed), he would give me clear, nonverbal signs that he wanted sex and if I said I wasn't up for it, he'd get grumpy, especially if I stayed up late enough to impede on his computer porn time.


That would make me wonder if it was me he wanted or other women or if I was the toy.

He sounds selfish to me and that might not ever change.


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## chaos (Mar 9, 2012)

He's a taker and you are a giver. But regardless, never regret nor apologize for being a good human being.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

"If you cannot do 15 hours, do some, anything. Just a few hours to start with. And work on yourself."

This is where I got stuck. DH has been posting there off and on for almost a month without me knowing. He then asked me to join the thread. When I did, I was told to start a new thread with my POV. I wasn't really going there for help...they wanted to hear from me. I did my best to keep an open mind, asked questions, answered all of theirs, etc. But, my main question was how to balance the need for UA with me not being ready to fall back in love with him. I feel more in control of my thoughts and feelings when not around him and not worried about meeting his needs. I don't feel the ever present guilt and I feel more whole and stronger...the person I want to be and the kind of woman I want my daughters to become. 

I need to know that he is really on the same page as me and the things he says and writes still tell me that he sees me as spiteful when trying to follow the POJA; he is very angry and is unsuccessfully trying to hide that from me while trying to win my heart back. I think right now, I need some space to calm down because every time he tries to engage me, I'm getting angry quickly. When he defends some of the really hurtful things he did to me, I just want to slug him. This has never been a problem before. It's like PMS out of body craziness and I HATE the way it makes me feel. I think we should stick to communicating about our relationship via email because that gives us time to process what we're reading and not be too emotional (this worked well for us a month ago). While I'm doing that, I think he should continue to work through his own feelings and process the information gained from the forums (I think it's a shame they closed our threads because they were helping him even though he didn't want to invest and I wasn't ready for the UA requirements). There were a couple people helping me, but for the most part, they were just rattling off Harley quotes of principles I fully understand. I just don't know how to combine them given my situation and nobody there seemed to have an answer...I didn't fit the equation.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

Thebes said:


> That would make me wonder if it was me he wanted or other women or if I was the toy.
> .


Thebes, I do feel like a toy. I've had health issues...no doubt about it. He was constantly trying to fix me while guilting me into sex. I felt like a broken toy that he only wanted to fix so I could satisfy his needs.
He saw meeting emotional needs as a direct exchange...everything he did came with an IOU written in fat, black marker on it and the only way he felt loved was through sex. He explains his mistake by saying that he spent all of his energy trying to remove the things in my life that made me unhappy instead of doing things to make me happy. But, to that I have to ask why he continued the porn, making time for the gym instead of checking to see if I needed help with the kids (even while I was playing full-time mom a couple weeks after surgery), and pressuring me for sex knowing full well that was insanely stressful for me. His mother has also been a huge stress in my life. He has stood by while she abused me in front of our children and for that I don't know that I can ever forgive him.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sounds like he does not see you as his equal. You kept on giving and giving, and for him it was not good enough. He took you for granted, knowing the difficulties you were going through, but even with the problems you were facing, he put himself first still. You have to detach. Make yourself a priority, and get the help you need in trying to figure out why you allow him to treat you in that manner. Start discovering what would make you happy as an individual. Learn to be happy with yourself. That way, if things do not work out, you will be fine with or without him.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't think that is it at all. On the surface, he is every bit a feminist and growing up, clearly those values were instilled in him and his siblings. 
That said, I don't think he recognizes the sacrifices I made for his career and his overall happiness. It seems like more of a completely subconscious selfishness. I believe he would never hurt me on purpose. That's making this more difficult, though. There's a huge shift that needs to happen. I need to stand my ground without being punished for the decisions I make for my own well-being and he needs to realize his side of the problem and somehow prove to me he understands how to fix it.

The thing that is driving me crazy is that he only seems to hear me when I'm angry or sad. When I'm speaking logically and lovingly, everything I say seems to go in one ear and out the other. This is totally backasswards considering he is a physicist and is pretty much all rationale and no emotions. We had what I considered a fight the other night and he thanked me for unloading on him...he said he needed that. Well, I DIDN'T! That made me feel like a horrible, nasty person! It's the same with nagging. I HATE nagging. If I find myself nagging about something, you can believe I'm really upset by that point (nagging is pretty rare). I understand that my kids have selective hearing, but I need my husband to clean out the ear wax and pay better attention. I'm sick of repeating myself. I'm sick of very carefully crafting my words and then having him say something completely contradictory. He says he trusts me and I think he does. I just think he tunes me out.


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

Sounds like he responds better to crisis. When there is a crisis, it requires your immediate attention.

When I say he does not see you as an equal, I don't mean female, males relationship. What I meant is he see his needs more important than yours, and his needs take priority over yours. If you were busy with something, he would expect you to drop whatever your doing to see his needs come first. An unequal relationship dynamic. It is unequal in terms of his selfish nature, not the nature of the sexes. It is unequal in terms you put a lot more into the relationship. In terms as him not seeing you as his equal, he sees his needs and priority coming before yours. It has operated that way for a long time, and it is what he is used too, him coming first. It has not been a reciprocal relationship.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

One point. Being healthy is good. If you can't love him without behaving in an unhealthy fashion then you have a problem. 

If you are unwilling to allow yourself to love him you should move on. You are using the withholding of love to see if your H will change. Be in or out.

Not saying your husband doesn't need work but sex should be pretty regular and fun for you both.

Obviously injury / surgery should prevent sex for a while but it sounds like you are not into it anyways. I know you could be turned off by your Hs behavior though.

Did you used to like more sex with him?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

It is my refusal to withhold that got me here. Until a few months ago, he made very little effort to make sex enjoyable for me. That was right before my 4th surgery. And by that point, I was already hurt so badly by my realizations of what this relationship has been built on that to a have sex with him was self destruction. It was denying myself the right to say no when I didn't want to f***. And that's all it has been for a very long time. There has been no emotional connection. We basically both close our eyes and go somewhere else. If I'm withholding anything, I'm withholding a coarse and ugly act, not love. Yesterday he told me that he is glad I stopped because without that, he would never have realized what he was doing to me.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Are there any women out there who don't feel resentment towards their husbands after 10-15 years? Do ANY women remain in love with their men? I sincerely do not think so.
> 
> Why we can't we teach young couples that there is a VERY HIGH probability this will happen? It shocks them ALL


Apparently, you are still between self pity and accepting that it was your fault she left. you are prone to angry outburst and didn't care to listen to your wife when she was trying to talk about it, how it made her feel. So you admitted in some of your post that you screw up, only to follow up with post about ungratefully unreasonable wives leaving their husbands for no reason. 

Yes, there are marriages that manage without resentment. They have decided to listen to each other and keep working on their relationship instead of taking it for granted. many of us are not so lucky.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Do you want to keep working on this relationship? or do you want out? And is this possible? I perfectly understand where you are coming from. It is hard to overcome resentments after so many years. YOu have been hurt so many times, that believing in change is rather impossible at this point. I am not sure if he can change, he will try, but this selfishness will be popping up here and there always and bringing back all the pain and resentments. Do you think you can live wtih it, or would you be a happier woman without him?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Discombobulated said:


> "If you cannot do 15 hours, do some, anything. Just a few hours to start with. And work on yourself."
> 
> This is where I got stuck. DH has been posting there off and on for almost a month without me knowing. He then asked me to join the thread. When I did, I was told to start a new thread with my POV. I wasn't really going there for help...they wanted to hear from me. I did my best to keep an open mind, asked questions, answered all of theirs, etc. But, my main question was how to balance the need for UA with me not being ready to fall back in love with him. I feel more in control of my thoughts and feelings when not around him and not worried about meeting his needs. I don't feel the ever present guilt and I feel more whole and stronger...the person I want to be and the kind of woman I want my daughters to become.
> 
> I need to know that he is really on the same page as me and the things he says and writes still tell me that he sees me as spiteful when trying to follow the POJA; he is very angry and is unsuccessfully trying to hide that from me while trying to win my heart back. I think right now, I need some space to calm down because every time he tries to engage me, I'm getting angry quickly. When he defends some of the really hurtful things he did to me, I just want to slug him. This has never been a problem before. It's like PMS out of body craziness and I HATE the way it makes me feel. I think we should stick to communicating about our relationship via email because that gives us time to process what we're reading and not be too emotional (this worked well for us a month ago). While I'm doing that, I think he should continue to work through his own feelings and process the information gained from the forums (I think it's a shame they closed our threads because they were helping him even though he didn't want to invest and I wasn't ready for the UA requirements). There were a couple people helping me, but for the most part, they were just rattling off Harley quotes of principles I fully understand. I just don't know how to combine them given my situation and nobody there seemed to have an answer...I didn't fit the equation.


I agree with you that perhaps you two should keep up with using email to talk about your issues. You are both filled with a lot of anger and resentment. So you both need to take time right now to read what the other has said and to compose a reply that is not filled with that anger/resentment.

With the UA, you can make a rule that you two do not discuss anything about your feelings and your situation. Instead you find a top to discuss that is safe. A suggestion would be to set aside half an hour every day to two for the two of you to have perhaps tea and dessert, or a drink if you both drink alcohol. And talk about something that interests the two of you that is not personal. you can discuss favorite movies, the news, etc.

If you look up "conversation starters" on line you can find ideas of things to talk about . Approach it as an exercise that just gets both of starting to do the UA with very little commitment.


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## Jetoroal (Dec 24, 2014)

OP sorry for what your going through
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mike6211 (Jan 18, 2013)

Discombobulated said:


> ... he is a physicist and is pretty much all rationale and no emotions.


Are you familiar with Myers-Briggs Typology? If not, there is masses on the web, and there are lots of popular books. Knowing your respective M-B Types and how they tend to interact in relationship (google : Myers Briggs relationship) may give you both a firmer foundation to work from in your relationship.

Physicists - especially theoretical physicists - are very likely to be one Type in particular of the sixteen M-B Types, which is otherwise under-represented in (i.e. markedly less than one-sixteenth of) the general population. There is an underlying simplicity and elegance to M-B Typology, which should appeal to a physicist, which I briefly tried to explain at Meyer-Briggs Personality Profiles – Dispatches from the Creation Wars (Mike5603, last on thread). 

BTW it is very important to bear in mind that the M-B descriptors (J=Judging, F=Feeling etc) have very different meanings from common usage (eg Judging does *not* mean "judgmental"). So much so, that IMHO it is better in discussion to use only the initial letters ("a J-Type", "an F-Type" etc). Similarly, a physicist in particular is likely to balk at the unintuitive and cumbersome four-letter Type descriptors in common usage, and the redundancy they involve. But he will equally appreciate that this aspect has no bearing on the substance of the underlying theory.

Edited to add: the first paragraph of my link is, I now see, inaccurate, but not the extent that it detracts from the underlying concept that there are, of necessity, four and only four fundamental aspects to a human being interacting with the external world s/he lives in.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

OP,
You've repeated, in multiple posts, all of the things you have done for your H. Why did you do them? And he has done nothing for you. He is a taker and you have been described herein as a giver. I posit however, that you are a taker being forced to give and you do not care much for it.

He is exemplary in all other aspects of society as in a good father, a successful educator, etc. but he sucks as a husband? That statement incongruous and I would suggest that it is your disdain for him that is causing your perspective to be somewhat skewed regarding his role as H.

I know givers and they are the most selfless people I have ever met and I often aspire to emulate their character. I have never heard one of them complain about what they did, ever. The reason being that they did it simply because they wanted to and hence the title "giver". You described your H as trying to do for you but there always being a big IOU attached in bold, black, markings. I'm sure you see it that way and perhaps your H is the most selfish creature on earth but that does not negate the things you do for him from your heart, with no expectation of anything in return. If this is not your true intent then "giver" is the wrong classification for your behavior.

I hope your H is capable of the change necessary to meet your criteria of a good H but I fear he cannot. His abilities may be too low and your expectations too high. Is there a middle ground that can be achieved by both? I feel this is what needs to happen but will that suffice for you especially considering that you now have lost all love for him?

Happiness is a state of mind and although it can be affected by outside circumstances, it originates and is sustained in one's own mind. So the question is can you be happy here? Yes=stay and work. No=leave and keep looking.

Lastly, perhaps look up the definition of love and ask yourself if you really ever had that feeling for him and, conversely, he you.

I wish you success in whichever path you choose.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

Lots of great posts here to respond to. I will start by saying that we were best friends for many years. We never ran out of things to talk about and we really did love all of the same things outside of our personal passions (his physics, mine music and art). Our personalities and interests complimented one another beautifully. I do think all of those things still exist. He is the same man I married 10 years ago and I realize it is not fair to expect him to change. But, I'm realizing I did expect him to grow up. I feel like I'm still married to a college kid. He never finished school. We met our last year of undergrad and while I went out into the real world and experienced several unpleasant jobs (as well as some good ones), he went to grad school, 2 post docs, and is now a professor. I sacrificed my identity in many ways to make sure he got where he was headed and I followed him back and forth across the country without a single complaint...anywhere he needed me and the kids. I don't regret that nor resent him for it. I don't know if I fall under the category of "giver", but it was never the giving that bothered me. I don't really feel like it was the lack of reciprocation either. It was the feelings of obligation and losing myself in the mix that have torn me apart at the seams and destroyed my love for him. It is his frustration and resentment despite all I have done, not that I did it. Honestly, I never thought of myself as a giver. Had someone asked me that giver vs. taker question, I would have immediately thought taker, but in this relationship, I have definitely been a giver and nobody forced me to do that. He is amazing and the world deserves what he has to offer. I would sooner remove myself from the equation than allow him to sacrifice all of that progress for me. His work is very demanding and I have accepted that and my love for him allowed me to support him unconditionally. And even with that love missing, I still care very much about his success. I do wish that he would stop tuning me out. As a theoretical physicist and possibly being on the spectrum, I often have to yank him out of his thoughts to be heard and that has become exhausting, especially since I have to help our kids be heard. It definitely adds to this feeling of invisibility.
So, yes, he is a great man in all areas until sex is the topic. He has always been a selfish lover (although that is an area he understands and desperately wants a chance to fix). He also lacks confidence since he only slept with two girls before he met me (and then two girls after he met me ;/ )...I am his only long term relationship and that was a major road block for the first several years we were together. He now claims that no longer bothers him, but I have certainly felt the weight of that frustration throughout our marriage. I have also struggled with communicating with him about sex without hurting what I've seen as a fragile ego combined with being tired of needing to give him instructions for pretty much everything. I also think he is blinded by his sex drive, which causes him to see right through me and not be affected by my pain or unhappiness. 
I am an open book. EVERYONE who has ever met me knows that. I an open and honest and love to talk to people. My husband has never had to guess at what I'm thinking (and has not complained about that side of me either). He, on the other hand, will readily admit how terrible he is at recognizing and expressing his feelings. That said, I can read his emotions clear as day. I can tell when he is stressed, angry, sad, worried, along with plenty of positive emotions. That has been a very one way street and I feel like he doesn't know me despite how open I am. 
My friends all see me as one of the strongest woman they know and constantly remind me of that even when I'm struggling with depression. They see me as talented, funny, smart, a great mother and wife, a great friend and sister, etc. But, I feel like I've been creeping around in my husband's shadow while he sees me as negative, broken, and angry. I wish he'd stop focusing on my weaknesses. I am an ever growing creature, constantly trying to better myself in all respects. I'm ready for him to grow up, man up, and open his eyes to just how good he's got it. I'm sure that is disrespectful, but I feel bullied and beaten down and forced to finally take care of myself.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

Haha, I wrote, "He never finished school." By that I meant, he is STILL in school not that he didn't complete high school. 

I had a rather larger ephiphany/connection this morning around 4:30 when I couldn't fall back to sleep. I took my phone out and put my ramblings into an email. Maybe I should share that here. I think he'll probably need to read that at some point.


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## Discombobulated (Jan 9, 2015)

Mike, I remember studying the M-B literature in college (my degree is in family/marital therapy), but need to revisit that. We have very different personality types despite our similar interests and beliefs (religious, political, what have you). I agree that would be helpful, especially for his very analytical mind.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Discombobulated said:


> He also lacks confidence since he only slept with two girls before he met me (and then two girls after he met me ;/ )...


When did he sleep with these two women after he met you? Was is when you were just dating? engaged? or after marriage? 

How long did these affairs go on?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

> He is exemplary in all other aspects of society as in a good father, a successful educator, etc. but he sucks as a husband? That statement incongruous …


This is not true at all. It is actually not uncommon at all for a person to be very good at their career and for them to suck as a husband and/or wife. Often times a high achiever will put enormous energy into their career and not put much into their marriage. 

On the topic of him being a good father. Any man (or woman) who ignores the needs of their spouse is not a good parent to their children. The most important thing that a person can give their children is a solid family. Solid families are built on the foundation of a very strong marriage. This is why one’s spouse comes before the children.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Discombobulated said:


> Thebes, I do feel like a toy. I've had health issues...no doubt about it. He was constantly trying to fix me while guilting me into sex. I felt like a broken toy that he only wanted to fix so I could satisfy his needs.
> 
> He saw meeting emotional needs as a direct exchange...everything he did came with an IOU written in fat, black marker on it and the only way he felt loved was through sex. He explains his mistake by saying that he spent all of his energy trying to remove the things in my life that made me unhappy instead of doing things to make me happy. But, to that I have to ask why he continued the porn, making time for the gym instead of checking to see if I needed help with the kids (even while I was playing full-time mom a couple weeks after surgery), and pressuring me for sex knowing full well that was insanely stressful for me. His mother has also been a huge stress in my life. He has stood by while she abused me in front of our children and for that I don't know that I can ever forgive him.


He says that he removed all the things that made your life stressful. Did he ever ask you what made your life stressful?

To his defense, most of us do not know that we need to ask our spouse what their needs are and how to successfully fill them. Instead we tend to do for our spouse some image of what we think is right. Is your husband a lot like his father? People often mimic one of their parents in marriage. After all that is what they learned.


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## AVR1962 (May 30, 2012)

This is a common response to what you have been thru. You have been sacrificing your desires for yourself to meet his needs and when we deny our own reality to please others our self-esteem suffers, we are betraying ourselves.

My first husband was the same way, could not please him and he would have fits if we did not have sex so I would just do it and wish myself to be some place else and hoped for the day it would stop. I found out he was having an affair and well, I guess my wish came true but just not how I had planned. I realized all those years of trying to please him had done nothing of the sort and it had not saved our marriage in any way. It was then I promised to never have sex unless I wanted it myself.

It is time that you talk to your husband and tell him how you feel. See what kind of a solution you can work out with this man as far as many a certain number of times a week. More than likely he is pleasing himself in the shower on top of what the two of you are doing. Does he want to be close to you? If it is a matter of intimacy there are others means of intimacy. What does sex with you to mean to him, perhaps that is something you can ask him.

I think you can expect your husband's feelings to be hurt to raise this subject as he might see it as a rejection. Sounds like your husband's sex drive is very high but he needs to give you some consideration but you are the one who is going to have to make this known to him.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Discombobulated said:


> His work is very demanding and I have accepted that and my love for him allowed me to support him _unconditionally_.
> 
> . . . . . . . .
> 
> ...


Yep...you gotta woman up, and take care of yourself, pronto!

As for loving him unconditionally, I hope you adopted the MB view of this, where romantic love is not unconditional at all, it is extremely conditional.

Re: the sex stuff...this is a terrible dynamic you two have sex up in your sexual relationship, but you will both need to own your parts in how you got there. You thought you were doing the right and loving thing to "meet his sexual demands"...but this was definitely not the right path. So since you chose that path you should do your best to drop the resentment and start FRESH by giving him all the information he needs, setting your boundaries, and then working through your resentment until you find real attraction for him. Meanwhile, he should be meeting your needs, and all that MB stuff.

But...do you want to try? You better get that figured out first.

If you've been creeping around in his shadow, this is something else you have to own, you can't blame that on him. You must make yourself your highest priority and figure out who you are and what you want. 

It isn't going to be easy, and it is understandable how love and devotion can lead us to dark places like this sometimes...


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

DayDream said:


> There is a high probability that the men take more than they give back? Expect everything for little return? Get to fulfill their hopes and dreams while the woman supports him and gives up her own hopes and dreams? Yet never recognizes her efforts?


Yes. It's VERY possible. So let's start discussing it. Every time I bring up this pandemic, it immediately turns into a gender war. So 50 years from now we will STILL be reading THOUSANDS of threads like this. And everybody will still be SHOCKED that it's happening.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Yes. It's VERY possible. So let's start discussing it. Every time I bring up this pandemic, it immediately turns into a gender war. So 50 years from now we will STILL be reading THOUSANDS of threads like this. And everybody will still be SHOCKED that it's happening.


It is you who makes this a gender war by your blanket statements. Instaead of accepting that you crew your marriage you are trying to justified it as "every woman does it" 

Pandemic of what? of woment finally having choice to leave yellling, controlling husbands? isn't this why she left?


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## Mr.Fisty (Nov 4, 2014)

There are traits about him that make him a great person, but it does not always translate into a great husband, or father. What is holding up the relationship is your willingness to give. AS soon as your exhausted and tired of it all, not only will your love fade away, the chance of you giving him another chance is slim. Your experience with him will always change the way you perceive him. You say your fine without the reciprocity, but him listening to you and understanding you is something that you want from him. Love needs to feel rewarding in order for it to thrive. The more rewarding it is, the more we want to love. It is understandable that you fall out of love with him. You admire his intelligence, and drive. But love, especially for mates, needs that dopamine rush on occasion to keep things from becoming platonic. If you were fine without things being reciprocal, then you would not fall out of love. You say you need him to do certain things for you, well that is being reciprocal for you to feel love. You know that he loves you, but you do not feel loved.


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