# How do you deal with insecurity/obsessive thoughts?



## Nom_De_Guerre

My wife had an EA in November-December 2013. Dday #1 was 12/18 and #2 was 1/27 (if you are interested in the full story, there's a thread in CWI). We are in R and have been since Dday #2. I will say upfront that fWW has been 100% transparent with phone, passwords for everything, etc. and has been sympathetic with my triggers and tries to offer suggestions on how I could help manage them. However, trust seems to be returning very slowly. I have been struggling with some insecurity and nagging questions in my mind.

For example, I noticed in hindsight that our sex life improved during her EA for obvious reasons. It remained improved afterwards as we began communicating better overall in and out of the bedroom. (We have sex 1-2 times a day usually). Sometimes I am bothered by the thought that she is thinking about the OM (or turned on by conversations they've had) and the thoughts can be difficult to shake.

Also, her phone and laptop still make me suspicious, even though I have full access to them and she's given me no reason whatsoever to actually be suspicious. I'm just having a hard time getting past the feelings of having to look for clues constantly.

So, any tips for shaking these lingering thoughts when everything seems to be going well?


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## Pamvhv

Maybe talk to a therapist if the money is there for you to do it. If she's being so transparent I feel like she's trying to work on it. I hope to be in your position one day and I feel like I may have your same problem. Right now the mind movies are killing me. Good luck! If you really want to work it out you need to work on your issues too. I mean, yeah, this is all her fault and her decisions. You need to continue taking care of you and if you want the R figure out what you need to do with a professional to make this right.


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## Mr Blunt

> *By Nom De Guerre*
> Sometimes I am bothered by the thought that she is thinking about the OM (or turned on by conversations they've had) and the thoughts can be difficult to shake.
> 
> So, any tips for shaking these lingering thoughts when everything seems to be going well?



You have some pretty good tips on your thread “ON THE FENCE” I am listing below a few that caught my attention 





> *By Nom De Guerre*
> Anyways, after DD#1, wife appeared remorseful about what she had done, and sent a NC email to the OM and deleted him on Facebook
> 
> *there are messages to the OM again*
> 
> WW gave up POSOM's wife's name
> 
> 
> 
> *
> By Mrs Nom DE Guerre*
> As Nom_De_Guerre stated, I sent OM a NC email (and did close the account), and wrote him a NC letter. The letter was given to my husband, and my wish is for him to at some point send it along with his letter to OM's wife (with her being the recipient).
> 
> 
> *By Hardtohandle*
> Sign a post nup stating that you will forego all assets and custody of the children if you ever cheat in any way shape or form again on him..
> 
> Lets face it if he is abusing you, then you can just leave and not cheat..
> 
> But if you LOVE him like you do.. Then signing that legal document should be a no brainer..
> 
> Forcing my Ex to sign a post nup was one of the things that help push her on going affair and fake reconciliation to light. She delayed it and delayed it until found other things out.







> *Mrs Nom DE Guerre*
> My efforts to show my husband how much he means to me have been out of nothing but love. I LOVE giving him the attention he deserves, and should have been doing so from the beginning instead of taking him for granted.
> 
> I actually did offer to sign something for him (he declined at the time), but I have absolutely no problem doing so. As I said, I am willing to do anything to let him know just how serious I am about making things work.
> 
> I am in this for the long haul. Working on our communication, going to MC (and probably IC), *100% transparency*.





Non De Guerre

Your wife has done some things that make her more sincere than not sincere. Those posts above should help you a bit to shake some lingering thoughts. However, the one where she is willing to sign the post nup as mentioned by Hardtohandle would say a WHOLE LOT to me if I were in your shoes. That would be very convincing that she is truly remorseful and is dedicated and sincere.


*If your wife signs that post nup then I cannot think of anything else that would be so convincing that she is really remorseful and worthy of R.*


If she signs that post nup I would suggest that you sign one also saying the same thing as she says in her post nup. That way you both would be making a very strong statement that you are dead serious about not cheating on each other. I know Mr. Nom De Guerre DID NOT cheat but he is like all the rest of us and is not immune to cheating in the future. In fact he maybe more prone to cheating as he thinks about how wrong he was done and then has an opportunity to cheat. It will be very tempting!


Put your Post nups where your mouth is and that is very convincing and strong!!!

At the present time with the limited information you have given us I would say that you have a little better than a 50/50 chance of having a successful R. If you both sign the post nups I would say that you have close to 90% chance of not cheating and having a successful R.



> *By Non De Guerre*
> I am unsure as to whether or not I can forgive this transgression on top of the original one, if I can live the rest of my life not knowing if the person I'm married to is 100% truthful and honest
> 
> I'm also worried that if I forgive her a 2nd time, it will further enable the type of behavior that got me here in the first place and just seem weak.




*If you are going to have a successful R then you MUST forgive.* You do not have a correct view of the forgiveness that will be best for you. You think that forgiveness will encourage and enable your wife to cheat again and that you will just seem weak.


Correct forgiveness means that you are not going to allow your emotions to rule you and you are going to give a gift to your wife and yourself. That gift means that you are not going to have hateful, revengeful or resentful feeling for your wife. True forgiveness will release you from the negative emotions that you will have with not forgiving. *True forgiveness is a sign of a very strong man/woman. Forgiveness is NOT with out consequences NOW and in the future*. If she cheats again after you forgive then you can forgive her for your sake, divorce her, and put her out of your life and go get another woman if that is what you want.


Forgiveness means that you make a plan to get even more self sufficient so that you can live with her or without her. Not a revenge plan but a plan that gives you more security and strength.


If your wife is a good woman, and I think that she is, she is already suffering consequences for her betrayal. First she will never have the 100% trust from you that she desires. Second, she will be fearful that her children will find out some day that she betrayed their father and even betrayed the children. I know that she probably did not think about the children when she was cheating but that does not change the facts. Thirdly, if Mr. Non De Guerre had a special cherishing for Mrs. Guerre it will probably be gone or severely damaged.


Now assuming successful R then both of you can build other areas of your relationship to a higher level than you have ever had. So what you will have is a loss in some area but a huge gain in other areas. *You both can have a good life with each other and your children.*


My guess at this point is that you will have a successful R because I do think that your wife is serious and if she and you sign the post Nup then that would be HUGE in improving the dedication and relationship.

Mr. Blunt (Successful R for over 25 years)


PS 
My wife went farther with the OM than your wife did


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## Nom_De_Guerre

Pamvhv said:


> Maybe talk to a therapist if the money is there for you to do it.


We have been going to MC, less and less frequently as time goes on. It has been a good resource for us so far, I think.



Mr Blunt said:


> At the present time with the limited information you have given us I would say that you have a little better than a 50/50 chance of having a successful R. If you both sign the post nups I would say that you have close to 90% chance of not cheating and having a successful R.
> 
> *If you are going to have a successful R then you MUST forgive.* You do not have a correct view of the forgiveness that will be best for you. You think that forgiveness will encourage and enable your wife to cheat again and that you will just seem weak.
> 
> 
> Correct forgiveness means that you are not going to allow your emotions to rule you and you are going to give a gift to your wife and yourself. That gift means that you are not going to have hateful, revengeful or resentful feeling for your wife. True forgiveness will release you from the negative emotions that you will have with not forgiving. *True forgiveness is a sign of a very strong man/woman. Forgiveness is NOT with out consequences NOW and in the future*. If she cheats again after you forgive then you can forgive her for your sake, divorce her, and put her out of your life and go get another woman if that is what you want.
> 
> 
> Forgiveness means that you make a plan to get even more self sufficient so that you can live with her or without her. Not a revenge plan but a plan that gives you more security and strength.
> 
> 
> If your wife is a good woman, and I think that she is, she is already suffering consequences for her betrayal. First she will never have the 100% trust from you that she desires. Second, she will be fearful that her children will find out some day that she betrayed their father and even betrayed the children. I know that she probably did not think about the children when she was cheating but that does not change the facts. Thirdly, if Mr. Non De Guerre had a special cherishing for Mrs. Guerre it will probably be gone or severely damaged.
> 
> My guess at this point is that you will have a successful R because I do think that your wife is serious and if she and you sign the post Nup then that would be HUGE in improving the dedication and relationship.
> 
> Mr. Blunt (Successful R for over 25 years)
> 
> 
> PS
> My wife went farther with the OM than your wife did


Mr. Blunt, thanks so much for your thoughtful post, reading it a few times has really helped me out. I think that I am having a problem actually coming to a point where I can fully forgive the transgression - from time to time, I still feel anger and resentment towards my fWW, but the emotions swing back and forth between that and feeling like I've never been closer to her. It's definitely something that I am working on and will need to continue to work on in the future.

I do feel that we've grown as a couple overall, it is just frustrating to struggle with these negative thoughts when everything is seemingly going well.


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## allwillbewell

NdeG: I know how you feel exactly! Even though Dday for us was 3 years ago this coming June, our R has been rocky and complex. We never separated, had a little MC and agreed to try to rebuild marriage. But TT, continued occasional nonphysical contact, ambivalence and disclosure of a previous(20 yrs ago)affair has taken its toll on the wonderful feelings of closeness, a pretty good return of sex and rediscovery of our love and bond.

But after a good year of true reconciliation, we are in a place now where I still trust only so far as to feel he has moved beyond his more recent LTA partner for good, but do I trust him as a person in general? Do I feel he will never lie to me again? Have I gained back the respect and pride I had for him? Do I still feel he torpedoed our marriage 20 years ago? Do I still resent how he gave up on me when he felt it was easier to cake-eat? Do I ever wonder that when I made the decision to stay and work it out, that I betrayed myself?

I wrestle with all these thoughts on a daily basis and struggle to find the path to true forgiveness to release myself from this burden and find peace again. 

If only it was as easy as simply saying "I forgive you." 

I believe for me, the obsession with mind movies and triggers is the process within me of redefining my life and who I really am after the trauma of betrayal exposed the falsehood of everything I believed in in respect to myself, my husband and our family.

My only hope is that with patience and hope and time, I will slowly climb out of this mire and rediscover my true story and meaning. That the good things between us that we are rediscovering and creating will overcome all the bad. In doing so, perhaps I will rediscover all those wonderful attributes my husband lost all those years ago and is as compelled as I to find again for himself.


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## harrybrown

How would your wife feel if you had an affair? 

would she be willing to go thru two d-days with you?

I know you are trying to reconcile, but I still think about it every day and it has been over 3 years, getting close to 4.

Did she ever sign the post-nup agreement, and did the OM's wife ever let you know that she got the letter?

Has your wife finally gone NC with the OM?


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## doubletrouble

We're a ways into our R, and the other day I asked W if she thought I was weak for not tossing her into the "b!tch ditch" for her PA. She said no, that she admired me more for my strength, that it was much harder to stay and R than to leave, and that it strengthened her resolve even more to stay and make this work. Not that I gave her the option to be in control of whether she stayed, but that she had made that determination on her own. 

It's a tough road, and forgiveness can be difficult. I am challenged by it every day. I found out the whole story of her affair just over a year ago, so in terms of a BS's recovery that's not very long. When I attached to her, I attached very deeply. So the pain is also very deep, I do understand that.


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## PamJ

Allwillbewell wrote: "I know how you feel exactly! Even though Dday for us was 3 years ago this coming June, our R has been rocky and complex. We never separated, had a little MC and agreed to try to rebuild marriage. But TT, continued occasional nonphysical contact, ambivalence and disclosure of a previous(20 yrs ago)affair has taken its toll on the wonderful feelings of closeness, a pretty good return of sex and rediscovery of our love and bond.

But after a good year of true reconciliation, we are in a place now where I still trust only so far as to feel he has moved beyond his more recent LTA partner for good, but do I trust him as a person in general? Do I feel he will never lie to me again? Have I gained back the respect and pride I had for him? Do I still feel he torpedoed our marriage 20 years ago? Do I still resent how he gave up on me when he felt it was easier to cake-eat? Do I ever wonder that when I made the decision to stay and work it out, that I betrayed myself?

I wrestle with all these thoughts on a daily basis and struggle to find the path to true forgiveness to release myself from this burden and find peace again. 

If only it was as easy as simply saying "I forgive you." 

I believe for me, the obsession with mind movies and triggers is the process within me of redefining my life and who I really am after the trauma of betrayal exposed the falsehood of everything I believed in in respect to myself, my husband and our family.

My only hope is that with patience and hope and time, I will slowly climb out of this mire and rediscover my true story and meaning. That the good things between us that we are rediscovering and creating will overcome all the bad. In doing so, perhaps I will rediscover all those wonderful attributes my husband lost all those years ago and is as compelled as I to find again for himself."
______________________________________________________

I feel this way myself after a year since the last D Day. I do believe he is now being honest and has not contacted the OW. There is absolutely no indication of that anymore and I do not have that gut feeling as I had in the past.
However, I do not totally trust him with my whole heart and I don't know if I ever will in the same way as I did before any of this happened.

Some days when we are not communicating well and he is frustrating me, normal stuff, small stuff, I think to myself "You are on your 3rd and last chance, you are lucky you are still here" because I feel that he is already taking my forgiving nature for granted that he thinks he can act in a way that upsets me. I never say it out loud but I also never want him to forget how close we came to not being 'us' and I wish he would stop himself from acting in a way that makes me feel this way.

Some day it might come out, but so far it hasn't. He tells me he is grateful that I kept him around and that he will never hurt me again. But I have heard those words a few times before.

I'm thinking it will fade away, but, like a half-life it will never really be gone from my mind.


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## sammy3

allwillbewell said:


> NdeG: I know how you feel exactly! Even though Dday for us was 3 years ago this coming June, our R has been rocky and complex. We never separated, had a little MC and agreed to try to rebuild marriage. But TT, continued occasional nonphysical contact, ambivalence and disclosure of a previous(20 yrs ago)affair has taken its toll on the wonderful feelings of closeness, a pretty good return of sex and rediscovery of our love and bond.
> 
> But after a good year of true reconciliation, we are in a place now where I still trust only so far as to feel he has moved beyond his more recent LTA partner for good, but do I trust him as a person in general? Do I feel he will never lie to me again? Have I gained back the respect and pride I had for him? Do I still feel he torpedoed our marriage 20 years ago? Do I still resent how he gave up on me when he felt it was easier to cake-eat? Do I ever wonder that when I made the decision to stay and work it out, that I betrayed myself?
> 
> I wrestle with all these thoughts on a daily basis and struggle to find the path to true forgiveness to release myself from this burden and find peace again.
> 
> If only it was as easy as simply saying "I forgive you."
> 
> I believe for me, the obsession with mind movies and triggers is the process within me of redefining my life and who I really am after the trauma of betrayal exposed the falsehood of everything I believed in in respect to myself, my husband and our family.
> 
> My only hope is that with patience and hope and time, I will slowly climb out of this mire and rediscover my true story and meaning. That the good things between us that we are rediscovering and creating will overcome all the bad. In doing so, perhaps I will rediscover all those wonderful attributes my husband lost all those years ago and is as compelled as I to find again for himself.




((Sigh...)) do you think the journey, the discovery of what yet to come, to go it alone, may be more rewarding and not so much work? 

I was married for 27 years, and to this day will go to my grave believing it was a good marriage that suffered an unnecessary affair that really fvcked things up big time, by my h. 

I use to pride myself on, along with my gf's and the circle of friends that we were lucky, because our marriages weren't a lot of work...we flowed, we meshed, it was easy... 

Do I want to live with the man that was once so easy for me to love is now so difficult for me, but that I still love? 

I found myself saying to my son the other day that the difference between relationships & marriage is, relationships are about good times, and marriage is about bad times. Though they have both, in relationships, one can walk away much easier... 

-sammy


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## harrybrown

How are you doing now?

Any better?

Sure hope so.


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## nikoled

I am 7 weeks post d-day- my husband had a 5 month EA and I completely understand what you are saying. Our relationship is probably the best and the worst it has ever been right now. I don't think I've ever felt closer to him, yet I don't trust him at all. It is a huge paradox and it can be hard to take. I struggle with that all the time- I don't want him to be "rewarded" for having an affair. But one day I realized this- now that we are so close he also cares about me more than he probably ever has. He feels more protective of me than he ever has and to see me devastated by something he did is really not a reward at all. He has to face every day the pain he caused to me and the damage he did to our marriage. That isn't a reward. 

I also realized one day recently that I almost felt like he had an affair with the laptop and the phone- I despised them as much as I despised the affair itself! I sent him an email one day that basically said, "I just need you to know that I often feel like you had an affair with your phone and laptop. They are what I saw you on all the time when you were communicating with her- only I didn't know there was a her. Since I don't know her I sometimes feel like the relationship was with these items. I want to bash them in and break them- but that is irrational and I am a rational person..." He responded to this in a very understanding way and now he keeps these items out of sight when he is around me as much as possible. We really couldn't afford to replace either of them so bashing them in was out of the question- plus I'm really not that aggressive of a person


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## Nom_De_Guerre

Wow, stop paying attention to TAM for a few weeks, and all of a sudden there are a bunch of replies. 



harrybrown said:


> How would your wife feel if you had an affair?
> 
> would she be willing to go thru two d-days with you?
> 
> I know you are trying to reconcile, but I still think about it every day and it has been over 3 years, getting close to 4.
> 
> Did she ever sign the post-nup agreement, and did the OM's wife ever let you know that she got the letter?
> 
> Has your wife finally gone NC with the OM?


I like to think that she would, not that I'd ever put her through that level of emotional pain. I asked her again about the post-nup and she has said again that she is completely open to signing something if I want her to - haven't had the conviction (or the spare money frankly) to have something legal drawn up. Unfortunately, I never heard a peep from the OMW - to be honest, I was kind of hoping for some sort of acknowledgement from her so that I knew that I had another set of eyes on my side. I believe that she has gone completely NC - there have been no red flags (and my red-flag sensor is finely tuned) since D-Day #2.



harrybrown said:


> How are you doing now?
> 
> Any better?
> 
> Sure hope so.


Thanks for the kind thoughts - I am doing much better these days and feel like things have never been better. fWW's words and actions are much different than before, and she does a lot to make me feel loved. 

I've also come to the conclusion that no amount of suspicion and/or worrying about further contact will prevent her from doing it again if she wants to, so it is a waste of my time to let the affair control my emotions. Obviously that does not mean that I am going to ignore the warning signs should they crop up again, and she is *acutely* aware of the consequences of further contact. 

I've also been focusing on being the best "me" that I can be. I've lost 50lbs since D-day (and ~120lbs overall) by working out and lifting weights 6 days a week. I feel slightly guilty, but I sometimes get the feeling that fWW is getting a little insecure about the newfound attention that I am getting from other women. I would never act on any advance from any other woman, mind you - my wife and family are too important to me. However, I can't say that I don't enjoy it a *little* bit. 



nikoled said:


> I am 7 weeks post d-day- my husband had a 5 month EA and I completely understand what you are saying. Our relationship is probably the best and the worst it has ever been right now. I don't think I've ever felt closer to him, yet I don't trust him at all. It is a huge paradox and it can be hard to take. I struggle with that all the time- I don't want him to be "rewarded" for having an affair. But one day I realized this- now that we are so close he also cares about me more than he probably ever has. He feels more protective of me than he ever has and to see me devastated by something he did is really not a reward at all. He has to face every day the pain he caused to me and the damage he did to our marriage. That isn't a reward.
> 
> I also realized one day recently that I almost felt like he had an affair with the laptop and the phone- I despised them as much as I despised the affair itself! I sent him an email one day that basically said, "I just need you to know that I often feel like you had an affair with your phone and laptop. They are what I saw you on all the time when you were communicating with her- only I didn't know there was a her. Since I don't know her I sometimes feel like the relationship was with these items. I want to bash them in and break them- but that is irrational and I am a rational person..." He responded to this in a very understanding way and now he keeps these items out of sight when he is around me as much as possible. We really couldn't afford to replace either of them so bashing them in was out of the question- plus I'm really not that aggressive of a person


I know how you feel about the electronic devices that were a medium for the affair. Sometimes I get irritated with my wife when she is using her laptop and/or phone when we are trying to do something together. She has been really cool about it though, and most of the time is just looking up a quick article or something unimportant and puts it away when appropriate.


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## PamJ

<<I am 7 weeks post d-day- my husband had a 5 month EA and I completely understand what you are saying. Our relationship is probably the best and the worst it has ever been right now. I don't think I've ever felt closer to him, yet I don't trust him at all. It is a huge paradox and it can be hard to take. I struggle with that all the time- I don't want him to be "rewarded" for having an affair. But one day I realized this- now that we are so close he also cares about me more than he probably ever has. He feels more protective of me than he ever has and to see me devastated by something he did is really not a reward at all. He has to face every day the pain he caused to me and the damage he did to our marriage. That isn't a reward. 

I also realized one day recently that I almost felt like he had an affair with the laptop and the phone- I despised them as much as I despised the affair itself! I sent him an email one day that basically said, "I just need you to know that I often feel like you had an affair with your phone and laptop. They are what I saw you on all the time when you were communicating with her- only I didn't know there was a her. Since I don't know her I sometimes feel like the relationship was with these items. I want to bash them in and break them- but that is irrational and I am a rational person..." He responded to this in a very understanding way and now he keeps these items out of sight when he is around me as much as possible. We really couldn't afford to replace either of them so bashing them in was out of the question- plus I'm really not that aggressive of a person "

Your thoughts practically mirror mine. Except, in my case, my FWH has done this 3 times. The first time was 17 years ago so really I am dealing with the last 2, which were 8 months apart with the same woman. 

The first time years ago I hated that I felt I was competing with some virtual (his was all phone & computer fantasy texting/sexting although he felt it was real, at least until he got caught) ...anyway, it felt weird to be rewarding him with my love adn attention but how can you withhold that when you are trying to reconcile. At one point he told me "You won!" I said "What did I win?" he said "Me!" To myself I thought, "Yeah I won a lying, cheating husband who I thought I had already won years ago!"

If my FHW didn't need his phone for our business, to which it is essential, and I wasn't such a practical person to not want to pay for a replacement phone, (all the money comes from the same pot, ya know) I might have smashed it at one point just to make his continuing to contact her, if he did, very inconvenient at least. When he decided he needed a tablet this year, also for business, I was very uneasy for a while and learned the ins and outs of it too, just in case. 

In my head, I trust him that he is no longer in contact with her. I see and feel no evidence of that. But, in my heart, I don't know if I will ever really totally trust him again farther than I could throw him, which I couldn't since I can't even lift his 230 lbs off the floor.

it is indeed, the best of times and it is the worst of times for this reason. The rest is all pretty good and continues to get better. We are on a much more even keel these days. Less highs and lows and much more upper middle to where we are generally nice and considerate to each other on a daily basis which makes life much easier and me much more likely to like and love him more each day.


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