# Do women really know what men need?



## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

Growing up, girls are taught not be sexually promiscuous. We're told 'Don't have sex before marriage. ' My parents didn't let me date in high school. I specifically remember being told "the farmer won't buy the cow if he can get the milk for free." I went off to college - my first experience of life on my own, without my parents watching my every move. I ended up pregnant before Christmas that year. This wasn't my intent, it just happened. I never dreamed that *I* would get pregnant. For the next 30 years, I've been in parent mode. I was a single parenthood with my first child - raised him basically on my own. Years later, I married and had my second child so I could 'do it the right way, with the daddy there.' 

I thought my ex and I would be together forever. I thought we were the perfect couple. We thought alike, got along well, finished each other's sentences, never argued, never fought. I wanted our kids to be happy in their adult life the way we were. He was my best friend. When something exciting happened at work, I couldn't wait to share it with him. When I was sad or angry, I just wanted him to hold me. Again, I thought we'd be together FOREVER. 

My ex was an OTR truck driver for probably half of our marriage. He was gone anywhere from 3 to 6 weeks at a time. When he was home, he was usually only home for 2-3 days. During his visits, we probably had sex twice. The first 24 hours, he was usually a zombie and slept most of the time. Plus I worked fulltime and more often than not, his time home happened during my work week. Normal life still goes on - kids' activities, household chores, getting his laundry done while he was home, shopping for him to restock the truck, etc. It's a lot to pack into the short amount of time that he was home. 

Then there was a period of time where he was home most every night for like 5 years. During this time, we had sex probably once a week. My ex always stayed up late at night - midnight or 1 am.. Where I went to bed at 10 pm every night. Once in a while, he would come to bed when I did.. This was my clue that he wanted sex. We mostly had weekend morning sex. We never spoke about sex. He never said he wasn't happy, or that he wasn't satisfied, or that he wasn’t getting it often enough. I work in tech support. No news is usually good news. When there's a problem, end users normally let you know. 

The last year of our marriage, he went back on the road again. He was gone 3-6 weeks at a time again. We went back to cramming everything we needed to get done in the 2-3 days he was home. Then 9 months ago, he told me he wanted a divorce. That I wasn't affectionate enough, we didn't have sex often enough. I've found out a lot since that day - and while I'm much better off without him (Karma bus hit him right between the eyes) I keep going back to his initial statement that 'I wasn't affectionate enough, didn't have sex enough.' This is what brought me to TAM. Call me naïve, but NO ONE TOLD ME what 'normal frequency' was. I must have missed the manual 'How to be a good wife to your man'. I honestly never knew that men had a physical need to have sex and that if they go without it for extended periods of time it messes with there wellbeing. My mom surely didn't tell me what I should expect. My ex didn't tell me he wasn't happy. I never had a clue that he wasn't happy, or that he felt the way he did. His asking for the divorce was so unpredicted. And once he started down this path, no amount of persuasion would convince him that our marriage was worth working on. He wouldn't agree to counseling or anything. It took him leaving, and me looking for answers to find out what nobody every talks about. 

I know some will say he was probably having an affair. He swears he wasn't. If he was or if he wasn't isn't my point. For all of those who post here that you're in a sexless marriage, don't assume that your partner knows what you want or need. They. Honestly. May. Not. Know. TELL THEM. Don't assume. TALK ABOUT IT. OFTEN. Communicate. Let there be no doubt what it comes to your needs. Spell it out for your spouse. 

Our divorce has been final for 4 months now. And like I said, in my case, it turned out to be a good thing for me as he's had a string of bad luck (was mixed into drugs, had a seizure, lost his job, has no money and is now deep in debt). I will probably never re-marry because I have no desire to have my heart ripped out again. 

I still miss my best friend.


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## eyuop (Apr 7, 2013)

Men know what men need.

Women know what women need.

Neither are often very good at knowing the needs of the other.

But for some reason, the majority of men hook up with women, and the majority of women hook up with men. Go figure!

I think it is very useful for men to really listen to women and for women to really listen to men to find out what the opposite sex really wants/needs. But sometimes what we need as human beings isn't very obvious even to ourselves! Sometimes we discover our needs by the way we behave and react to some new situation, not because we were conscious of our needs. For example, we don't often know we need something until that need suddenly is getting met and it feels really good.



> "For all of those who post here that you're in a sexless marriage, don't assume that your partner knows what you want or need. They. Honestly. May. Not. Know. TELL THEM. Don't assume. TALK ABOUT IT. OFTEN. Communicate. Let there be no doubt what it comes to your needs. Spell it out for your spouse."


This is really good advice. ^^^^^


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

HeartbrokenW it sounds like you had a bad experience in your marriage. But of course all men are not like your ex. Sexual frequency is something every couple needs to work out to the satisfaction of both. 
I hope when the pain of your divorce lessens, you can consider the possibility of another relationship.


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## AnnEMoose (Jun 18, 2013)

I agree with Maneo. Man or woman, an individual's need for sex differs. It seems, from what you've written, that you did nothing wrong wrong in the way of "satisfying your man." If he was dissatisfied, it was his prerogative to say so. Good communication leads to good sex. He should have figured that out. Seems he preferred to waste a valuable relationship, rather than talk. I thinks that's just stupid and I'm so sorry you have to go through that pain.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

HeartbrokenW, your situation holds similarities to mine. My x wife divorced me over two years ago. If you had asked me at the time, I thought we would be together forever. After looking back, I have discovered that we had a lot of ways that annoyed each other to the point that it built resentment, although at the time, I must have had my head in the sand and didn't realize it.

Like you, we never fought, which I thought was good.  Some have since told me that a good fight on occasion opens up the communication window and adds a little passion to the marriage. 

The thing that puzzles me about my divorce is that there was nothing major like cheating or abuse. She just said she wasn't happy anymore for a lot of, what i would call, more minor reasons. I'm like you, nobody told me any of these things that are supposed to keep a woman happy. I feel like I should have had a manual, but I didn't. I was naive enough to think that if two people loved each other, and had some common sense, it just took care of itself. Boy was I wrong.

She had no idea about what men needed sexually either, although i did try to explain to her what I needed. She didn't want sex very often and would rather pretend there was something wrong with me for wanting sex more often. 

She also said she was not having an affair, which everyone said she probably was. There was no evidence, but people just thought the way she asked for a divorce suddenly, there must be another man. She just claimed she had fallen out of love and wasn't happy anymore. 

I'm not sure I've helped, but I did connect to a point with your situation.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

HeartbrokenW...I'm sorry for your situation. 

I am also sorry your husband never made his needs clear to you. Many men do, however. And also, there are many women with higher sexual needs than their husbands...so this is not a one-way problem.

Hang in there.


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## Thound (Jan 20, 2013)

Maybe he had a drug problem then, and didnt want to drag you thru that. His work schedule was horrendous.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MissScarlett (May 22, 2013)

I think many times people cannot own their own actions and find a way to blame their spouse for their problems. 

He had ample opportunity to discuss sex with you. If that was the issue that brought the marriage down it sounds like he never brought it to your attention. 

I think to have a successful married sex life you need two people who are willing to discuss their sexual needs and two people that are willing to adjust as necessary. 

Every man is different. Some men truly are happy with once a week (or less.) If your husband wasn't one of those guys he should have been giving you the memo - not your mom.


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## thatcleanhippyguy (May 17, 2013)

I have always been a quality over quantity guy. I'd rather do it once a month and it be spectacular then everyday and dull.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

southbound said:


> I'm not sure I've helped, but I did connect to a point with your situation.


Thanks SB.. it does help to know there are others out there who don't understand the whole game, that I'm not the only one. I'm beyond the hurt and anger, and just left with the unanswered questions that I keep looking for the answers for. Some days are worse than others, and I can't get enough of reading on TAM. I keep hoping to come across the answers.


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

Thound said:


> Maybe he had a drug problem then
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Oh he did, Thound.. our entire 13 yr marriage. When we first got together, I told him I didn't want that in my life and he said he would quit. And I believed him. He continued his habit and hid it from me. for 13 yrs! After the "you aren't affectionate enough, we don't have sex enough" it turned to "I'm tired of being the man you want me to be".. well the only I asked of him was to be drug free. It took me 3 weeks to figure it out, and when I did, I started the divorce proceedings. I know in my head it was the right thing to do, but my heart still urns for his companionship. I continuously go back to what he originally said and am trying to figure out what I did wrong I guess.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

We don't want to tell you. We want you to want us without having to be told or pressured. Sure we can make our needs known and get it....but it definitely means less if we have to ask; or keep asking.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

> I specifically remember being told "the farmer won't buy the cow if he can get the milk for free."


In all honesty this is quite possibly the worst piece of common advice I've ever heard (and I've heard it a lot, including from my wife, who heard it from her mother). I have no idea where it started or who ever thought it was a good way to think about sex or relationships or marriage or anything else.

I suppose it is designed to protect women from the committment-phobe horndogs out there, but in reality it ends up giving the woman not only hangups about sex, but also total misconceptions about what men want, and marriage in general (as in with marriage they supposedly "bought the cow"?).

Men like sex. Men like women who like sex. Specifically, men like women who like sex with US. 

I hear women complain about their H's who watch porn, saying "he is comparing me to a porn star". No he isn't. I'd bet he finds his W more attractive than the women on the screen. So why do men like porn? Because the women in porn appear to love having sex. They can't get enough. They give a blowjob as if they've been waiting for 6 months to do it. The guy never has to ask in a porno, the woman just starts going to town on him. Same with intercourse, the women in porno act like it's the greatest thing ever and never just lay there, they move like crazy because they love it so much.

Of course it's all completely fake. Men know this, but they try to ignore it in order to enjoy the fantasy. But the REAL fantasy involves his wife enjoying sex as much as the actresses are pretending to. That is a big reason why men HATE when a porn actress glances in the camera as if to say, "how long do I have to keep doing this". It ruins the fantasy, and reminds the man that this is just an actress doing it for money. He wants to imagine it is real, so that he can imagine his wife might want him that way.

Of course, since a wife is NOT doing it for money and actually DOES love the man she is having sex with (hopefully) - there is no reason she can't give him a taste of his fantasy in real life.

Just my 2 cents. Women could learn something from porn, quite honestly - and It's not about crazy positions or the flexibility of a gymnast. It's about how a man wants to be DESIRED, at a primal level, by his wife. Many women just don't get this.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

4thand11 said:


> In all honesty this is quite possibly the worst piece of common advice I've ever heard (and I've heard it a lot, including from my wife, who heard it from her mother). I have no idea where it started or who ever thought it was a good way to think about sex or relationships or marriage or anything else.
> 
> I suppose it is designed to protect women from the committment-phobe horndogs out there, but in reality it ends up giving the woman not only hangups about sex, but also total misconceptions about what men want, and marriage in general (as in with marriage they supposedly "bought the cow"?).
> 
> ...


This describes how I feel about sex and porn so closely it's almost unbelievable.


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## Trying2figureitout (Feb 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> This describes how I feel about sex and porn so closely it's almost unbelievable.



What is interesting about PORN is you see the same themes play out. The guys like it the girls don't. You can tell in their expressions and most don't orgasm. Also they cut away from the money shots to inject some milky substance in them.

Face it most women don't need or desire sex. This shows in case after case of long-term marriages. They wait until things stabilize and then pull the plug and try to weather the storm.

I think in most relationships the window for good sex is finite then it subsides. Problem is we want more.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

trying2..."Face it most women don't need or desire sex. This shows in case after case of long-term marriages."


Christ on a bicycle, are you freaking kidding me?


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

T2's "plan" is falling apart as we speak. So he's telling himself that every other woman is like his wife. That's the only way he can justify staying at this point.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Oh right...now I remember who trying2 is....


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Trying2figureitout said:


> Face it most women don't need or desire sex. This shows in case after case of long-term marriages. They wait until things stabilize and then pull the plug and try to weather the storm.
> 
> I think in most relationships the window for good sex is finite then it subsides. Problem is we want more.


I disagree, it is more of an issue where each partner wants sex for different reasons and in different situations.

For example a wife wants to feel beautiful and desired. She wants foreplay and romance. She wants connection and passion. The H should give that to her and if he does it will lead to good sex for the both of them.

The husband wants those same things but he also wants to feel desired in a more primal, animalistic way sometimes (not that women never want this also of course!). The W should give that to him and just straddle him and start grinding as if she was waiting for him to walk in the door before she exploded... this will often lead to a great time for the both of them.

But it can't be all one way or the other... BOTH partners want sexual connection but it may take some compromise to have both of their needs met.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

I want to get my brains f*cked out regularly, for the record.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> I want to get my brains f*cked out regularly, for the record.


I knew there was a reason I liked you.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> We don't want to tell you. We want you to want us without having to be told or pressured. Sure we can make our needs known and get it....but it definitely means less if we have to ask; or keep asking.


It's not about pressuring. It's about open communication. Surely you can understand that, WOM. So, you don't want to tell your wife what you want, what you like, what would make you happy... she has to GUESS? And if she guesses wrong, based on her OWN likes, her OWN needs, resentment builds on both sides... the husband, because she's not doing it right for him. The wife, because she can see that she's not getting it right, wants to please the husband, but he has the opinion that she should just want it, want to do what he wants, without him saying anything. Again, how can ANY spouse know what a wife/husband wants unless they are TOLD? 

Your premise is a cop out. Seriously, no one can know what is WANTED, what is LIKED, what is PREFERRED unless it is TOLD to them. You know that. What the OP is talking about has NOTHING to do with pressuring a spouse into having sex. It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping the lines of communication open, and keeping resentment from building up.


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

WOE: Just wait til you read my sex blog...hee.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> T2's "plan" is falling apart as we speak. So he's telling himself that every other woman is like his wife. That's the only way he can justify staying at this point.


Now this, I agree with!


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Maricha75 said:


> It's not about pressuring. It's about open communication. Surely you can understand that, WOM. So, you don't want to tell your wife what you want, what you like, what would make you happy... she has to GUESS? And if she guesses wrong, based on her OWN likes, her OWN needs, resentment builds on both sides... the husband, because she's not doing it right for him. The wife, because she can see that she's not getting it right, wants to please the husband, but he has the opinion that she should just want it, want to do what he wants, without him saying anything. Again, how can ANY spouse know what a wife/husband wants unless they are TOLD?
> 
> Your premise is a cop out. Seriously, no one can know what is WANTED, what is LIKED, what is PREFERRED unless it is TOLD to them. You know that. What the OP is talking about has NOTHING to do with pressuring a spouse into having sex. It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping the lines of communication open, and keeping resentment from building up.


Getting attention makes a man feel desired. But if he doesn't get any attention until he has to ask for it then it feels fake. It's one thing to tell your preferences. I agree that's communication. But to have to nag and tell them over and over? And then she only does what you want after being told (again). For decades? At what point should a spouse be expected to have learned what the other spouse needs?


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## Faithful Wife (Oct 31, 2012)

Both men and women want a spouse who is into them.


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## treyvion (Apr 29, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I knew there was a reason I liked you.


I need some wholesome and loving wives like you to speak in my womans ear!


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## TiggyBlue (Jul 29, 2012)

Faithful Wife said:


> WOE: Just wait til you read my sex blog...hee.


hehe can't wait to read about the sex god.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Getting attention makes a man feel desired. But if he doesn't get any attention until he has to ask for it then it feels fake. It's one thing to tell your preferences. I agree that's communication. But to have to nag and tell them over and over? And then she only does what you want after being told (again). For decades? At what point should a spouse be expected to have learned what the other spouse needs?


But that's not what the OP was talking about. She wasn't talking about being nagged, or nagging him. She was saying that she HAD NO CLUE that he was unsatisfied. Why? Because he never indicated to her that he was. He was OTR more often than not and when he WAS home, it was basically all about getting stuff done for him so he could go out again for a month or two. No real time to connect with each other. During the time he was home for (5 years, was it?), sex was once a week. He never spoke up saying he would like more. OP didn't say if she tried to initiate more often or not. Maybe she did. Maybe she didn't. But he still never made his desires known to her, so how could she know otherwise?

I agree, nagging only builds resentment. But like I said, that's not the premise of this OP. So, how long should it take? Frankly, I think that depends. In the case of an OTR driver who is only home 2 days every 2 months, it's going to take a LOT longer than one who is home every night. But if it has all been reduced to constant nagging, there is definitely something wrong... and needs to be figured out.

ETA: It also depends on how dynamics change. In the case of the OP, he was gone most of the time for many years, then home nearly constantly for 5 years, then gone again. The needs are going to change in these instances....at least, frequency is going to change, potentially. Again, if not communicating these things, no one is going to know.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

There may be nothing that you did wrong. Being apart for most of the year makes it easy to hide things. You have no idea what he was doing during those long stretches without you. If he was doing drugs, he hung out with druggies. He may have had a life you never knew of and in which he was a completely different person. 

It easy to hide who you really are in a long distance relationship. If you add up all of the time you spent together in the last 13 yrs, would it be about 6 yrs total counting the 5 year period? 

I don't think it is you. You were married to a man who found it easy to hide from you. If you read post about long distance relationships, you might get a better understanding of what happened.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Again, how can ANY spouse know what a wife/husband wants unless they are TOLD?


I don't know about this. It's not like my wife ever had to sit me down and say, "I'd like it if you came home one day and, completely unannounced, told me to get dressed because we are going out to a fancy dinner"... or, "I'd love it if you surprised me with a present for no reason"... or, "I love when you rub my back for a long time before we have sex"...

I just figured these things out. Some are common sense and some I learned just by her reactions when I did them. I'd have to be living in a cave to not know that women in general love gifts, tokens of affection, compliments, etc...

I don't think a man should need to TELL his wife that he would love it if she acted excited to have sex with him, acted as if she really desired him... these are pretty common things that a woman should know about a man by the time she gets married.


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## justonelife (Jul 29, 2010)

IMO - I agree with the OP that women are not taught how important sex is to a man in a marriage/relationship.

However, I think the flip side is also true. Men are not taught how to maintain sexual attractiveness over time. Often they stop doing the things that attracted the woman in the first place but expect the sex to keep up at the same level. Then both parties are left confused.

I'm tired of the LD women on this forum being vilified as selfish and uncaring. They often don't KNOW why they have lost their attraction to their husband or how to get it back. I know I certainly didn't.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

HeartbrokenW said:


> Growing up, girls are taught not be sexually promiscuous. We're told 'Don't have sex before marriage. ' My parents didn't let me date in high school. I specifically remember being told "the farmer won't buy the cow if he can get the milk for free." I went off to college - my first experience of life on my own, without my parents watching my every move. I ended up pregnant before Christmas that year. This wasn't my intent, it just happened. I never dreamed that *I* would get pregnant. For the next 30 years, I've been in parent mode. I was a single parenthood with my first child - raised him basically on my own. Years later, I married and had my second child so I could 'do it the right way, with the daddy there.'
> 
> I thought my ex and I would be together forever. I thought we were the perfect couple. We thought alike, got along well, finished each other's sentences, never argued, never fought. I wanted our kids to be happy in their adult life the way we were. He was my best friend. When something exciting happened at work, I couldn't wait to share it with him. When I was sad or angry, I just wanted him to hold me. Again, I thought we'd be together FOREVER.
> 
> ...



You're preachin' to the choir.  

Edit: I am the ex-husband who is in the same position you are in. My scenario was very similar in what I have underlined.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

justonelife said:


> However, I think the flip side is also true. Men are not taught how to maintain sexual attractiveness over time. Often they stop doing the things that attracted the woman in the first place but expect the sex to keep up at the same level. Then both parties are left confused.


Yes I agree although as a man I don't think it's because we "are not taught". I think husbands know what they SHOULD be doing. However over time apathy sets in and things start deteriorating. It takes effort and not all husbands (or wives for that matter) are willing to put in that effort.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

4thand11 said:


> I don't know about this. It's not like my wife ever had to sit me down and say, "I'd like it if you came home one day and, completely unannounced, told me to get dressed because we are going out to a fancy dinner"... or, "I'd love it if you surprised me with a present for no reason"... or, "I love when you rub my back for a long time before we have sex"...
> 
> I just figured these things out. Some are common sense and some I learned just by her reactions when I did them. I'd have to be living in a cave to not know that women in general love gifts, tokens of affection, compliments, etc...
> 
> I don't think a man should need to TELL his wife that he would love it if she acted excited to have sex with him, acted as if she really desired him... these are pretty common things that a woman should know about a man by the time she gets married.


Wow... so, from that one little sentence, you assume I meant to include being excited to have sex? Just...wow... No, I am talking about FREQUENCY. I am talking about specific ACTS, be it oral, various positions, anal play, etc. No, I am not talking about "acting excited to have sex"...if she has to ACT excited, then I would think there's a HUGE problem, regardless...which would definitely need to be dealt with. And, I also clarified earlier that the OP wasn't talking about acting excited either. She was talking about the exact same things I just listed: frequency and what he would like as far as acts/positions.

Now, the post from which you extracted that one sentence was actually a reply to something WOM said... And really, it was more about his specific statement "we don't want to tell you", however, there was more to the post, so I responded to that as well. "We don't want to tell you." Fine, don't tell. And don't get pissy if you don't get the sex life you want, either. Same goes for BOTH sides. If a woman doesn't like that her husband pushes his fingers inside too deep, hurting her, should she tell? Well, based on that one statement from WOM "we don't want to tell you", one could claim that she shouldn't have to tell... he should just know. But, the HEALTHY response is to say "Honey, when you push so deep, it hurts, and turns me off. Please, try not to go so deep so it's more enjoyable."

As for the OP, imagine how differently things might have turned out, had her husband said "Dear, I know we rarely had sex while I was on the road, but I really would like sex more often than once a week. How about we try for 2-3 times each week...or maybe even more?" Instead, he said NOTHING and she thought all was well. 

But, of course, she should have read his mind, right? Bullsh!t. He should have spoken up if his sex life wasn't satisfactory...as should ANY spouse if they aren't having the sex life they would prefer.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Faithful Wife said:


> trying2..."Face it most women don't need or desire sex. This shows in case after case of long-term marriages."
> 
> 
> Christ on a bicycle, are you freaking kidding me?


Precisely. Sorry Trying, but you're wrong. A lot of women desire and need sex. _Your_ wife doesn't define the entirety of the female population.


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## 4thand11 (May 20, 2013)

Maricha75 said:


> Wow... so, from that one little sentence, you assume I meant to include being excited to have sex? Just...wow... No, I am talking about FREQUENCY. I am talking about specific ACTS, be it oral, various positions, anal play, etc. No, I am not talking about "acting excited to have sex"...





> Now, the post from which you extracted that one sentence was actually a reply to something WOM said... And really, it was more about his specific statement "we don't want to tell you", however, there was more to the post, so I responded to that as well.


Yes and WOM's ENTIRE post, to which you responded, was: 



> We don't want to tell you. We want you to want us without having to be told or pressured. Sure we can make our needs known and get it....but it definitely means less if we have to ask; or keep asking.


There was nothing in there about positions, frequency, anal play, or anything else. You are reading things into it that are not there. It was quite simply about wanting your wife to WANT to have sex with you, without always having to be asked. And I stand by my statement that having to TELL your wife that you'd like her to desire you sexually, is pointless. She should already know that.

Sometimes talking helps, and sometimes it's just more talk.

Now as for anal play... hmm yes I suppose you might need to mention that - she's not a mind reader, after all!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

OP, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. My husband isn't very open about his needs, either. He's working on communicating with me more effectively about what he needs and desires.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

4thand11 said:


> There was nothing in there about positions, frequency, anal play, or anything else. You are reading things into it that are not there. It was quite simply about wanting your wife to WANT to have sex with you, without always having to be asked. And I stand by my statement that having to TELL your wife that you'd like her to desire you sexually, is pointless. She should already know that.
> 
> Sometimes talking helps, and sometimes it's just more talk.


And who was WOM talking to in his post? The OP? Or someone else? I assume the OP, who said, herself, to talk, discuss these things, don't just assume. She knows what you want. Now, I DO agree that a spouse should know that you want to be desired sexually, without having to TELL them. However, as I said, the things mention in the ORIGINAL post, should have been discussed. Knowledge of sexual desire SHOULD be a given...SHOULD be. But knowing WHAT is wanted, knowing HOW OFTEN it is wanted, is NOT a given. And that's why I responded the way I did. TELLING your spouse these things is not the same thing as pressuring to perform. And there is no reason, no GOOD reason, not to tell what you want and how often you would like it.

I do agree, however, that at some point that it gets to be like talking to a brick wall. But, I think that would be at the point you would feel they do not desire you and they see sex as a chore. Still not the same as what the OP was describing.


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## salamander (Apr 2, 2013)

I agree that women are not taught to embrace our sexuality. We are raised to deny and repress it. As women who developed full breasts like me know, we were told to cover it up. Even if the "telling" was not explicit, it was there. My female peers were jealous of my breasts in 4th grade, and also my waist-length blonde hair, even though I lacked self esteem and didn't "use" these feminine sexual powers. At that age, it was the girls more than the boys who tormented me about my development. And I think that's a big issue: even I, as a mother to a teen daughter, worked hard to promote her "modesty".

Where is the bridge between repression-training to happy-wife-sex-training?

Men I have known have fallen into two main camps with their sexual hangups: either they are horndogs without relationship or attachment goals, or they are afraid of being perceived as such. My good Catholic-raised H still fears that he is "pervert" for having advanced sexual desires, and he is very worried that he will "take advantage of me" sometimes due to the force of his lust.

There is also the "madonna / *****" fallacy in full effect still to this day. Guys say they want a lady in the streets and a freak in bed, but their compartmentalization powers are not always up to the task, and we are shamed by them for being one or the other.

When are men and women going to appreciate one another as individuals?


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

I really think Mothers, Grandmothers/ those women before us who have lived and loved, have fallen down on the Job to teach their daughters what a beautiful giving loving "life force" it is to GIVE, lavish our husbands with sexual attention... the Joy, the emotional fulfillment this brings to our men...and in turn, back to ourselves. 

No, all we see growing up is ...all the sexual excitement/ hot lust coming more from the UNmarrieds...it's splattered all over TV, in the media, every magazine you pick up...College hook ups the norm, sow your wild oats young one / get it out of your system .....while marriage is talked about as becoming sexless/ dry....... this is the message our young people are fed every day ... 

And we wonder why men have little desire to marry ...what incentive is there?

I am a little Pi$$ed at my Grandmother for sharing her beautiful love story with me -but never mentioning -how to please a husband... Sex such a taboo topic for these women of Old...

The tide is turning...though I strongly feel we should be very careful our message to young people.... 

My husband was too darn QUIET here also... since I always initiated him... (always loved Pleasure)....but I just didn't feel that antsy NEED as often as he did... so he didn't want to rock the boat with me... it meant the world to him, even worth the waiting - to feel my strong desire for him...though he so easily could have tripped my triggers more often had he came on to me more so... such a simple thing... *we needed more communication here too *- in our early yrs.



> *Catherine602* said: It easy to hide who you really are in a long distance relationship. If you add up all of the time you spent together in the last 13 yrs, would it be about 6 yrs total counting the 5 year period?
> 
> I don't think it is you. You were married to a man who found it easy to hide from you. If you read post about long distance relationships, you might get a better understanding of what happened.


 Long distance relationships, THIS much time apart, very few can make this work..the price of this sort of job away from the family ...it is too much for many, habits get made when away from each other...he might have formed a porn addiction to take care of himself.... one never knows.. it all hurts the intimacy in the marriage. 

My husband had an opportunity to take an over the road Truck driving Job, I told him I would not be able to handle it, I LOVE having him around, we'd miss each other too darn much..


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## HeartbrokenW (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks for the responses, this discussion is helpful. Especially Maricha75.. you have a way of putting into words what I am thinking. 

I'm just torn between did he want the divorce because of what he perceived as issues with our sex life, or was that just a cop-out, and the real issue was he wanted to be free to live a life with drugs and there really was no issue with our sex life. If it really is the sex life then I'm trying to find out how a woman is supposed to know what her man wants, if he never mentions there ever was an issue?

ok my head hurts now. lol


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

How about a rule of thumb for your next relationship (if you ever decide to have one): if he's not turning you down once in a while, then you're not doing it enough.


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## Maneo (Dec 4, 2012)

In a number of the posts on this discussion thread there seem to be a number of sweeping generalizations - the men (or women) in general sort of comments and/or assumptions made that take off in directions the original poster may never have intended and which may reveal more about the one making the assumption than anything else.

It also seems, as is often the case on TAM or listening to people in real life, that some may be searching for The Answer or The Reason or The Single Thing that led to the failure of the marriage and the relationship.

I can't speak for others but in my experience it is rarely, if ever, a single identifiable thing that is the only cause of the demise of a relationship but more a combination of things that both parties share some responsibility for in the relationship. I envy those for whom life seems to be a clear series of singular events, each of which appear to have a direct causal effect on relationships failing or succeeding. I find life much messier and full of multiple influences and events and conditions and some days it seems things float along on a placid lake and other days it seems like a bull running amok in the china shop.

My experience has been that sex - the lack thereof or problems with performance or satisfaction - tend to be symptomatic of multiple other issues like trust, communication, physical problems and influences (drugs fall in here), assumptions and expectations, just to name a few.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> How about a rule of thumb for your next relationship (if you ever decide to have one): if he's not turning you down once in a while, then you're not doing it enough.


How about, instead, now that she knows better, they discuss things BEFOREHAND, so there are no surprises. And, keep the lines of communication open, validating each other, etc? I think that would be easier, and more productive.


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## jaharthur (May 25, 2012)

WorkingOnMe said:


> T2's "plan" is falling apart as we speak. So he's telling himself that every other woman is like his wife. That's the only way he can justify staying at this point.



Ah, he's the guy with the plan? Did we ever find out what the secret plan was?


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

jaharthur said:


> Ah, he's the guy with the plan? Did we ever find out what the secret plan was?


He made a blog. The link is in his sig. Or, at least, it was last I checked.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Every single tv show, movie, commercial, bilboard ad or magazine you will ever see makes it perfectly clear that men need sex.....often.

I have no idea how you've gone so long without knowing that.


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## Maricha75 (May 8, 2012)

sinnister said:


> Every single tv show, movie, commercial, bilboard ad or magazine you will ever see makes it perfectly clear that men need sex.....often.
> 
> I have no idea how you've gone so long without knowing that.


Except for the ones who have stated, themselves, that they DON'T need, or even want, sex very often. How about the fact that the man she married was, or seemed, content with sex, on average, once every other week (based on sex 2 times every 3-6 weeks) for years, and never spoke up when it went up in frequency to once a week? So, no, you can't go by billboards and magazines, commercials, TV shows. Not when you have a man who SEEMS to be content with less than what these venues claim to be the norm. IN reality, there are men who want less sex and there are women who want more sex. These generalizations found in all the media are just that... stereotypical generalizations.


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## southbound (Oct 31, 2010)

HeartbrokenW said:


> Thanks SB.. it does help to know there are others out there who don't understand the whole game, that I'm not the only one. I'm beyond the hurt and anger, and just left with the unanswered questions that I keep looking for the answers for. Some days are worse than others, and I can't get enough of reading on TAM. I keep hoping to come across the answers.


I've been chasing the "why" ever since my divorce. You certainly aren't alone. I keep looking for that thing that is going to make it all clear for me. I have learned a lot here at TAM.


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## hambone (Mar 30, 2013)

HeartbrokenW said:


> Growing up, girls are taught not be sexually promiscuous. We're told 'Don't have sex before marriage. ' My parents didn't let me date in high school. I specifically remember being told "the farmer won't buy the cow if he can get the milk for free." I went off to college - my first experience of life on my own, without my parents watching my every move. I ended up pregnant before Christmas that year. This wasn't my intent, it just happened. I never dreamed that *I* would get pregnant. For the next 30 years, I've been in parent mode. I was a single parenthood with my first child - raised him basically on my own. Years later, I married and had my second child so I could 'do it the right way, with the daddy there.'
> 
> 
> The last year of our marriage, he went back on the road again. He was gone 3-6 weeks at a time again. We went back to cramming everything we needed to get done in the 2-3 days he was home. Then 9 months ago, he told me he wanted a divorce. That I wasn't affectionate enough, we didn't have sex often enough. I've found out a lot since that day - and while I'm much better off without him (Karma bus hit him right between the eyes) I keep going back to his initial statement that 'I wasn't affectionate enough, didn't have sex enough.' This is what brought me to TAM. Call me naïve, but NO ONE TOLD ME what 'normal frequency' was. I must have missed the manual 'How to be a good wife to your man'. I honestly never knew that men had a physical need to have sex and that if they go without it for extended periods of time it messes with there wellbeing. My mom surely didn't tell me what I should expect. My ex didn't tell me he wasn't happy. I never had a clue that he wasn't happy, or that he felt the way he did. His asking for the divorce was so unpredicted. And once he started down this path, no amount of persuasion would convince him that our marriage was worth working on. He wouldn't agree to counseling or anything. It took him leaving, and me looking for answers to find out what nobody every talks about.
> ...


It is not fair to gripe about stuff you didn't specify.

He never specified... until it was too late. That is not fighting fair...

Second point. My wife says that a man doesn't leave a woman who is meeting his basic needs... Food, sex, clean clothes etc. etc. UNLESS they have somebody warming up in the bull pen... They leave when they think they have a better deal... Of course, no deal can be better than a absolutely horrible deal. Yours doesn't sounds like he had a pretty good deal... After all, he wasn't complaining..


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