# Know I should be the first to fix it — but D4MN it's hard.



## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

My husband and I have drifted apart. 

He feels I have ignored him and his needs, talked down to him, not shown him appreciation or given him my attention. He feels like I have pulled myself away from him. 

I feel like he has ignored me and my needs, not listened to me, not shown me appreciation or attention, while at the same time attacked me about every thing i do wrong. I feel like he has pushed me away.

I have very much trouble communicating completely openly and honestly with him. He has very much trouble communicating with kindness and respect with me. I don't know which came first, all I know is that at this point, we are both miserable. He feels like he has to tell me everything like to a child. I feel like he is bossing me around and not letting me make my own choices. My reaction is to pull away, while his is to attack. Both of these I see at the same time being both self-defense and a form of punishment for the other. 

We're in a vicious cycle where (1) I'm afraid of revealing my true feelings to him. —————> (2) He gets frustrated and angry, leaving me feel unfairly attacked and like he doesn't care about my feelings at all. —————> (3) I get more scared of telling him my feelings, as I'm afraid they'll be stomped on — again.

Basically, we ended up in a terrible unbalanced power-struggle without realizing it.

And now, he has had it. He really has had it, and has — in his accusative and aggressive manner — told me to fix, and fix it now. 

How do I rise above this?
How do I ignore his attack, stop every hint of a thought I might have about blaming him (counter-attack) — and just focus on fixing my own behavior?

I was already trying to do this, as he had told me he had problems with my behavior before. I was trying, I feel like I'm constantly trying, but it is really friggin' integrated in me to act the way I have and my mind has slipped from the task time to time.

Cannot slip anymore though. This time I know if I don't fix it, he will be through.

Is it possible for me alone to fix this? I have asked him to change the way he speaks to be a bit kinder, because I have a hard time not to get defensive when he attacks with full force, but this had no effect. He is too frustrated in me to care. 

I guess there lies the problem. I *know* that have to be the one to fix it. I know someone has to take the plunge, and I know it has to be me. I must first fix my behavior for my husband to start treating me with the respect I also crave. But darn, it's hard to realize the old advice "reach out to help those who hurt you". 

I know the principle — just fix yourself and they will follow. But HOW do you start? How do you motivate yourself to start, when you feel like a punching bag?


Oh, sigh. Sorry about the rant.


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## desert-rose (Aug 16, 2011)

You can't fix a relationship by yourself alone. You BOTH have to do something about it. It concerns me that you think it's on you to do it by yourself. Hopefully, your partner realizes that he has to put in some effort, too, and not just expect you to be the one to change while he does nothing but make demands. However, it sounds like what you mean is that you need to either apologize for something you've done or that you need to be the one making the first move toward fixing this problem. That is a different matter.

If your emotional distance has been the problem and he needs you to change something about the way you communicate with him, then think about how you might be able to do that.

Make some time to talk. Be brave enough to face your fears and be vulnerable. Let him know that you care. Let him know what's going on with you. Ask him to communicate what is going on with him. If you guys really keep getting stuck with guards up, then just make an appointment with a marriage counselor who can help you guys work through your various blocks toward connecting.

It sounds to me like you both care about each other, like neither of you wants to hurt the other person, so just don't be afraid and be the one to talk to him first. If you're nervous and have things to say that you aren't sure of, try journalling and writing out what you wish you could say to him and that will help calm your mind.


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## JustAMan2 (Oct 28, 2011)

tiredandout said:


> My husband and I have drifted apart.
> 
> He feels I have ignored him and his needs, talked down to him, not shown him appreciation or given him my attention. He feels like I have pulled myself away from him.
> 
> ...


How do you start? In his book "Love and Respect" Dr. Emerson Eggerichs suggests the one that is the bigger person start. Of course, that would be you, right?:smthumbup: The premise of this book is that women PRIMARILY are motivated by love while men PRIMARILY motivated by respect. Dr. Eggerichs discusses the "crazy cycle" and how to get off of it. It sounds a lot like what you have tried to illustrate for us that is going on in your marriage.

I don't know if you are a religious person or not, but this material is based on Biblical teaching. Even if you are not religious, there are some good sound principles to be found here.

Love and Respect Ministries


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

Read Willard Harley's His Needs, Her Needs and Lovebusters.

Discuss issues when you are both calm.

Repeat back what the other person said so there is clarification and each person knows that they are heard.

Use "I" statements, such as, I feel disrespected when you say that, not You always treat me like a child.

Do things together each week that you both enjoy. Go on date nights.

Leave the room when things gets heated so you do not say things that are hurtful.

Resentments kill love, so discuss together how you both can overcome the resentments that have built up over the years.


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

Thank you guys for your kind replies.



> Hopefully, your partner realizes that he has to put in some effort, too, and not just expect you to be the one to change while he does nothing but make demands. However, it sounds like what you mean is that you need to either apologize for something you've done or that you need to be the one making the first move toward fixing this problem.


I guess herein lies the problem. He _thinks_ he is the perfect communicator because he is confident in speaking what is on his mind, very open with his feelings and very outspoken. He sees me as a terrible communicator because I find it difficult to be open with him and can't express my feelings very clearly always.

However, he doesn't see that his _WAY_ of communicating is very destructive. Criticism, complaint, attack on my character in stead of what I'm doing, messages like "you are making me [..]" "you are [..]" "always" "you never". Whereas I have for the past 9 months been in the process of trying to learn to speak to him with kindness, with "I" messages, rephrasing what he says to make sure I understand, sharing my feelings instead of blaming him. I am by no means perfect at this, but am really trying. 

I have expressed him how his way of talking makes me feel, with no effect. 

I am trying to be the bigger person here. I know my problems with myself have caused us much trouble. I have lost myself, in a way. Having lost my confidence I — without being asked to do so — have given up things that make me happy for him, which has caused me to act resentful towards him. I don't blame him for this. I know his way of communicating has played its part in it, but mostly I have created a cage for myself all on my own. I know I must tackle my own issues. 

I guess at the moment I just think that he cannot be helped. It's my job to help myself, become a better person for myself, take responsibility for my own life and my own actions. I cannot control him, and shouldn't let his behavior hurt me, I can rise above that. I should just strive to be the best I can for myself, while at the same time showing him love, respect and understanding. 

Confidence, or fearlessness, seems to be the key-word for me. Not being afraid of asking for what I need, doing things I want, expressing my needs and my creativity. And not being afraid to tell him if I feel mistreated my him either.

Thank you for the book recommendations, I have been reading quite much about the subject but am not familiar with those particular books.


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## Voyager (May 23, 2011)

Communication issues are sort of like sex issues in a marriage: they generally indicate the presence of deeper problems. When my wife and I first started marriage counseling our (rather inexperienced) counselor focused on our communication issues. It was not very helpful. It wasn't until we started going to a more experienced counselor who focused on how we felt about each that we started seeing results and gaining a better understanding of each other. That has allowed us to communicate better. 

I would suggest going to a counselor, together would be best but on your own if necessary, to gain some introspection on how you actually feel about your relationship. Yes, communication tips are helpful and important. But I think you're treating the symptom here, not the cause. And if your husband persists in thinking that it's your job to fix the relationship... he's in for a rude awakening. It's his relationship too and he bears equal responsibility for it. It doesn't sound like he will come to that realization on his own.


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

Voyager, 

I agree there are other issues than communication problems here.

I know we both came into this marriage with baggage. I know the very different ways our families have showed (or not) affection, talked about feelings and what kind of boundaries there were in our early homes are still effecting us today. 

I have accepted him with his issues and have went to great lengths to understand him. Due to my past, I am much worse at talking about my feelings. This also means, that he hasn't had the same opportunity to understand me. I haven't even understood myself very well.

I would go to IC if only I could afford. Unfortunately at the moments that is not the case. But I have started to do some heavy-duty soul searching and began the process of learning to understand my inner child and healing the life-long insecurities engraved deep inside me. I am only in the beginning, but I am already convinced it is working. 

I only wished my husband wasn't so fed up with me, that he isn't able to offer me any support in this. But I don't blame him, really, I haven't been the wife I want to be to him. 

Every day now is going better than the last. I am committed to keep it going to that direction. Whether or not he decides to stick with it, is not really in my hands. I am healing myself *for myself* now. Trying to do it for him didn't work at all (tried it before). Now I'm committed to working on this, no matter what happens to our relationship. 

Maybe that sounds cruel. But in my mind it's the most important step to recovery for me: to stop taking the role of a martyr and victimizing myself — and start taking responsibility for my own life. No one wants to be married to a doormat anyway.


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## Voyager (May 23, 2011)

> ... Maybe that sounds cruel.


Not at all. I think it sounds very healthy. In fact, your last post seems positive and sincere. Even with professional individual counseling, you'd end up doing the heavy lifting anyway and it sounds like you are committed to doing that. Good for you! 

I hope that your husband someday sees the effort and the changes you are making and will choose to support you in your journey of self-discovery. Otherwise he may find himself married to a strong, confident woman who finds that her relationship is less than she deserves. And she may be right!


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

Thank you so much for your words. 

I already feel empowered by the discoveries I've made, and can only grow stronger. Maybe my husband can't fully support my efforts yet, as he is not interested in hearing about my internal changes, but already he told me he found we are getting along better the past couple of days. I am determined to keep this up and will seek support from others besides him as well, to make sure I won't stray from the path. I hope he will grow alongside with me, but I am no longer debilitated by the thought that he might not. I have finally understood that being married doesn't mean I have to lose myself in him. 

I'm responsible for my own life and happiness —*and am now finding the courage to take control of that again.

Feels great.


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

Well, here we are.
I'm not sure anyone reads this, but need some place to vent.

I started off great: I was more confident, more affectionate, more present and more attentive towards my husband. Then, unfortunately, at a very important moment, I relapsed. Only for a few minutes, but it was too late to take it back afterwards — and now my husband has checked out emotionally. He is a complete wreck and I can't do anything to help it anymore.

I can see the events and emotions that lead to this clash of communication styles and stress from both sides. I can see why it has happened, which things have caused problems in our relationship, and am committed to fixing it. He only sees his own side and cannot forgive me anymore. He is very hurt though, and I understand why. 

I don't know whether we'll separate for a moment or just try to get through this while still living together. I know I should follow this advice now: 


> You need to understand what they are going through, and try to accommodate it instead of change it. Let them take their time. Prove to them that you care more about their feelings than your own, and you will not do anything to hurt them again.


The trouble is — and that has been my problem since moving in together with him — that there is no space for *ME* in our relationship. I guess I really would want to separate for a moment. I don't know how still living together, spending every waking moment together I could make reconciliation an easy ride for him and be all flowers and butterflies all the time. I simply don't have space to work on myself, nor my demanding master studies, when he is upset and I have to spend every minute catering to his needs. I understand he needs me to be very nice and very upbeat at the moment. But how am I supposed to be upbeat 24 h a day without any time to myself ?

I don't know it's all just a mess. I wish he wasn't so alone here. I wish he had someone else but me. The burden of being his only support has weighed on me and partially caused this mess — and now it is making it very hard to get rid of it too. I have been feeling like I need more space for many months now, but have pushed the feeling aside because he made it clear he so desperately needs me here. Then the pressure of being responsible for him, our home, our money and my studies all became too much, and I started to involuntarily hurt him with my actions. He has been hurt too many times and doesn't believe in me being able to change anymore. I understand this. 

I understand him. I really do. I just wish circumstances were easier for both of us. Having spent the first year of our marriage as my husband's caretaker rather than spouse, and him having had to go through a whole roller coaster of difficulties — we are at a loss for what to do. I want to be with him and work things out. He wants to leave me but even that has been made too difficult. 

Oh, life. You sure know how to screw people over at times.


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## Ten_year_hubby (Jun 24, 2010)

tiredandout,

You show a remarkable grasp of the issues at hand and I applaud your taking the initiative in working with them. Your marriage is under attack and you are fighting to save it and this is good. My question is why exactly does the leadership role fall on you? Where is your husband in all this and why does he appear to be incapacitated?


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

Long story short, I have recently realize I share a lot of the traits that are widely known as "codependency". I have no boundaries. My husband has problems with his own as well, his come out as anger, need to control and mistrust. 

Where does my husband stand in this? I think he stands on the on the other side of the fence in resentment and denial, even though I have left the gate open to the side of understanding and journey to recovery and tried to make clear that I don't criticize or blame him for what has happened. I just want to make it better. He is not ready to step out to the other side yet. However, I accept this fully and don't have any intention of forcing him. 

I am not responsible of him, his feelings or his actions. I am only responsible of myself, my own life, my own feelings and my own needs. And it is my choice and my choice alone how I react to his feelings. All I can do is take care of myself and seek to become better. Whether he'll stay or go is not in my hands. 

I care about him, greatly. But it is not my task to TAKE CARE of him, even though that is what I have thought (we both have). He is a grown man. 

He thinks I "make him" do or feel something. I have come to accept that this is not true. Not does he have the power to "make me" do or feel anything. We both have a choice, *always.* I am learning to take back that power and responsibility of my own feelings and actions. He may or may not do so. That is not in my hands. He might choose to blame me for the rest of his life. Or he may come to learn what I have learned. It is not my job to force him on the same path I have chosen to take. All I can do is show him a better way through example. If he will continue to resist it, he might end up resenting me even more for wanting to stand up for myself. But his reactions are his own, I am not responsible for his feelings. 

I am responsible for my own actions, and also have to live with their consequences. I am learning to choose my actions and feelings in any given situation wisely, based on my own values, so that whatever their consequences will be, I will always know I made the right choice _for me_ — and can accept whatever comes after.

If he will leave me and choose to resent me, I will of course be very sad. Dreams of a future with him will crumble, the only man I have ever loved so dearly will be gone. But as I am learning my own value and power again, I know that whatever happens, I will survive. I am not his shadow, nor do I want him to be mine. I want us to be two separate people standing on our own feet, not two shapes with blurry boundaries melting into one and resenting each other for it.

This process, which I have only just started, feels at the same time exciting, empowering — and terrible painful and scary. I don't know what the outcome will be. But I know that when I will stick it out, I will come out a happier, calmer and more independent person in the end.


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## charlene (Jul 21, 2011)

tiredandout said:


> Long story short, I have recently realize I share a lot of the traits that are widely known as "codependency". I have no boundaries. My husband has problems with his own as well, his come out as anger, need to control and mistrust.


This sounds a lot like my relationship... eventhough it hasn't been diagnosed yet.  when i read i find many things in common - the issues with my husband. I went to therapy for a while ,then stopped, because of a financial reasons too. I find it helpful,but my husband says he felt like i was drifting away...May by that was true/ like one of the posters here said/ - becoming a better person doesn't feel right for him. May be that pressures him to change too... things haven't chaneg till date, so i'm trying to self-help myself, like you. I'm finding it hard to pick the right method though. Hope to read more of your posts, so that i can decide what fits best for me too.
Best of luck


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

charlene, thank you for your reply.

What you said about your husband's reaction after going to therapy: 


> I find it helpful,but my husband says he felt like i was drifting away.


— I feel like my husband thinks this already after my attempts to helping myself. Here would be the difficulty: 

How I could simply define codependency in myself is that I have let go all personal boundaries (if ever had any), living life to give others what (I think) they need but not being able to ask for what I want — and then getting upset over not getting it. Realizing the role I learned as a child to be the one to take care of others, being always expected to pull through and to not let anyone know my deepest thoughts, needs or desires dues to fear of rejection.

Well, curing myself from this surely would appear to mean learning to be more independent, more assertive, gain more self-esteem and rebuild boundaries.

However, our situation is tricky. My husband is here without almost any other support system besides me. He still hasn't been able to build a stable life for himself here. I by no means blame him — it is a very difficult country, society and social culture for him, and I hadn't been so settled here having lived a year abroad just before he came. Most of our problems for me have resulted from not getting my needs met. Which has caused me to act coldly towards him and him not thus getting the support he would need. 

I have tried to begin working on myself, but doing it on my own uncontrollably doesn't seem to work. I am able to get better for a couple of days but then one of two things keep happening: a) I slip to my old ways for a moment, my husband gets pissed off again and thinks we are doomed OR b) I try to put my newly learned lessons into action but don't know how and go overboard. meaning: I falsely think "speaking up for myself" means I'm allowed to fight my husband back when he is upset, or to act selfish. Needless to say this causes him to explode even more.

Who the hell knows. 
He is furious, depressed and distressed at the same time —*and now thinks leaving is the better option.

I don't even know what I think anymore. I want him to treat me well. I don't know how much strength I have to keep staying calm for him so that we could get past this rough patch. In some moments I think I would be better off without him as well. But then I remember how dearly I love him, what a wonderful, interesting, talented, smart and funny person he is and I want to stay and try to fix it. 

Sigh.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tiredandout,


Can you explain more about you being his care taker? Briefly what is the situtation?


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

I've discussed it in another thread in length, but in short: he moved to my country to stay with me after LDR. He has found it extremely difficult and it has resulted in him plunging into depression, feeling very low, very angry and in need of constant support. This has also made me the one to mainly take care of our daily lives in terms of food, rent, managing our money. 

In many instances I have felt more like a parent to him than a partner.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tiredandout said:


> I've discussed it in another thread in length, but in short: he moved to my country to stay with me after LDR. He has found it extremely difficult and it has resulted in him plunging into depression, feeling very low, very angry and in need of constant support. This has also made me the one to mainly take care of our daily lives in terms of food, rent, managing our money.
> 
> In many instances I have felt more like a parent to him than a partner.


So his has no disability.

Your husband’s lack of interests, lack of a job, etc. are a huge issue. It seems to have caused him to fall into a depression. He needs to do something. 

You might want to tell you that you cannot make him happy, it’s his job to do that. It is only after he is happy with himself that the two of you can have a good relationship again. That you expect him to do something, whether it’s get a job, any job right now, go back to school or do volunteer work. 

Hospitals are often looking for volunteers. That’s one place he could start. What are his talents, his skills, his training? Tell him that he has to find a way to use them.

Jobs are not found by sitting at home all day. They are found by networking.. that means going out and meeting people. He should join a professional organization. Watch the paper for companies having open houses for hiring events. Go to job fairs. 

This should be where you draw that line in the sand.. he cannot just sit home and let you support him without him doing something.
IF you tell us what his skills are, maybe we can all help with some brainstorming on what he can do to get out in the world and functional again.


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## tiredandout (Jun 1, 2011)

EleGirl, thanks for your reply.

I think you hit the nail in the head with this one: 



> You might want to tell you that you cannot make him happy, it’s his job to do that. It is only after he is happy with himself that the two of you can have a good relationship again.


Only, I _have_ told him that, but with poor results. He doesn't think it is true. He really does think that is IS my job to make him happy, that I "brought him here" (which I by no means did, it was his choice alone to come) — and so I should be the one to fix it for him. I have tried to offer him various activities and hobbies but he has no interest. He has work now, but it is his own project, which he does mainly alone on the computer, keeping contact with people abroad. It is nowhere near a full-time job though. 

I know the lack of things to do we have both contributed to. We have quite different interests and even more so, we come from such different environments: he is from a buzzing, cultural multi-million city — I am from a small, distant, close-minded country. Thus, nothing here is really of interest to him. When I ask about his interests it feels to me that I could easily find those for him here. But when I suggest something, the answer is the same: it's boring, it's not like he hasn't seen it somewhere else, he doesn't want to go out to an event because it's so hard to talk to people here, he doesn't want to commit to any hobby regularly, that starts to feel like work for him.
We have both found it difficult to show interest in each other's interests and after months of his depression have ended up in a rut where ideas on things to do we come up, we don't find the motivation to try.

I don't think I can convince him to do more than he has. He has tried to make friends here, but the set backs he encountered in the beginning continue to wear him down and stop him from trying again. 

I'm not sure there's much more to do. Probably we will separate. The fact that he wants that makes me incredibly angry, very sad to lose him — but also somehow relieved. It is very painful to be together at the moment. I don't know what's best.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

tiredandout said:


> EleGirl, thanks for your reply.
> 
> I think you hit the nail in the head with this one:
> 
> Only, I _have_ told him that, but with poor results. He doesn't think it is true. He really does think that is IS my job to make him happy, that I "brought him here" (which I by no means did, it was his choice alone to come) — and so I should be the one to fix it for him. I have tried to offer him various activities and hobbies but he has no interest. He has work now, but it is his own project, which he does mainly alone on the computer, keeping contact with people abroad. It is nowhere near a full-time job though.


Put an end to his you “brought him here” nonsense. Tell him that if he’s not happy here to go back to where he came from. He can take the money from his part time job and leave. By telling him that you take way his game on this one.

There is a reason that he hangs onto this nonsense. Somehow he thinks it’s serving his purpose to act like a spoiled child. The only way he will change is if he has to. His payoff in harassing you with it is too high. He’s getting a lot of power over you with this game.


tiredandout said:


> I know the lack of things to do we have both contributed to. We have quite different interests and even more so, we come from such different environments: he is from a buzzing, cultural multi-million city — I am from a small, distant, close-minded country. Thus, nothing here is really of interest to him.


So you are not living in the USA. For some reason I had thought that the two of you had moved to the USA. Well if he does not like it there and the place he lives is more important than you are, there is nothing you can do about it. Again he should go back to his big city if that’s what he wants. Could you move to his city? Would you take that risk?

Like I said earlier, a person is about as happy as they make their mind up to be. I’ve lived all over the world… in big cities and in places like you said… small closed minded countries. Except for a few times where there was real sorrow in my life, like the death of children, I have always been a very happy person. It’s not because of where I live but because I want to be happy and I find everything in this world fascinating. I’m sorry to say but your husband is acting like a spoiled brat.


tiredandout said:


> When I ask about his interests it feels to me that I could easily find those for him here. But when I suggest something, the answer is the same: it's boring, it's not like he hasn't seen it somewhere else, he doesn't want to go out to an event because it's so hard to talk to people here, he doesn't want to commit to any hobby regularly, that starts to feel like work for him.
> We have both found it difficult to show interest in each other's interests and after months of his depression have ended up in a rut where ideas on things to do we come up, we don't find the motivation to try.



would he be willing to see a doctor about depression. He sounds very depressed. You do at this point as well for good reasons.



tiredandout said:


> I don't think I can convince him to do more than he has. He has tried to make friends here, but the set backs he encountered in the beginning continue to wear him down and stop him from trying again.
> 
> I'm not sure there's much more to do. Probably we will separate. The fact that he wants that makes me incredibly angry, very sad to lose him — but also somehow relieved. It is very painful to be together at the moment. I don't know what's best.


You might be right that you will just have to let him go. If you are willing to do that it might shock him into realizing that he is killing the relationship. You might get him back.

"If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it dosent, then it was never meant to be."


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## charlene (Jul 21, 2011)

I have to agree with EleGirl. I'm in a kinda the same situation,only on a smaller scale. My husband moved to my home town to live with me/ actually he lived abroad before, so he moved from another country for me/ and i feel the same way sometimes ,eventhough i know he should be the one to make himself happy with his decision.
I even said yes to living in his home town, or even back in the country he lived before. Actually we live here not only beause i have an apartment here and we shouldn't be worried about mortgage or rent. 
My husband didn't make friends or find a job here for the past almost 3 years/ he work for a couple of months a year in the other country/ And i think that makes him very depressed too even if he didn't say it. I feel sorry for him ,in the same time i know there's nothing i can do for him if he doesn't feel it like home here.
So i know how you feel and how impossible is to live with dissatisfied and premeditated person. 
In an arguement i often hear "you don't know how it feels to be far from home" or "if you were the one living in a foreign place..."


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