# What makes you jealous about your wife?



## confused55

I am asking men what makes them jealous about their wives.

Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?

My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.

Thanks


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## tacoma

The only thing that would make me jealous is if she began attaching to another man emotionally
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## cloudwithleggs

why would anyone that really loves you be jealous.

now slight jealousy if you are flirting with another male and putting it right under his nose might cause fleeting jealousy, but i very much doubt that is the case, because why would you do that to someone you loved.

So what are you actually doing to make him jealous?

lets say do you like jumping through hoops because you may have to become an olympic athelite at it.


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## bubbly girl

confused55 said:


> I am asking men what makes them jealous about their wives.
> 
> Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?
> 
> My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.
> 
> Thanks


Ok, I'm obviously not a guy, but I do know what would piss my husband off.

First off, why are you flirting with other men? I wouldn't be ok with my husband flirting with other women. You're married. It's normal to find others attractive, but why do you need the extra attention from men who aren't your husband?

Second, there is a difference between a woman having a lot of friends and having a lot of male friends. Does your husband have a problem with you having any friends or just friends of the opposite sex?

You say he gets jealous when you wear fancy clothes. Are they fancy or provocative?

I think you need to be more specific about what you are doing that makes your husband jealous.

For example, if you have several male friends whom you often talk to or text (especially about personal matters and confide in them), well, I can see why your husband would have a problem.

If he gets jealous because you made small talk with the mailman or cashier at Walmart, then he's very insecure without justification IMHO.


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## dabdab1000

it's when she treats me different to other people i.e. harmless flirting is fine aslong as she flirts with me instead


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## costa200

> Is it flirting with other men,


If i ever see this then it's the last time i will feel jealousy cuz she will be sent off... So yeah...




> wearing fancy clothes,


No... As long as there aren't any red flag behaviors connected to it. I like to see my partner at her best. I enjoy seeing it. 




> having lots of friends, doing things without them,


Depends on who the "friends" are. If they are decent females doing their stuff, not a problem at all. I need my time too. If it was male "friends" then i'm there, no discussion.



> talking to other men,


Not a problem, unless there are some sort of weird behavior as in body language and such. 




> and more.....?


Dancing with strangers (males) perhaps, going out to GNO to notorious meat markets... Yeah that would be killers, if i ever allowed it. It's about it what i can remember right now. 



> My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.


Can you give us a measure of his unreasonability? An example perhaps...


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## Gaia

cloudwithleggs said:


> why would anyone that really loves you be jealous.


Because its natural. There is absolutely nothing wrong with jealousy if its simply one person being territorial. Its basic instinct. Some are more jealous then others which isn't a problem imo unless that jealous person is abusive.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000

confused55 said:


> I am asking men what makes them jealous about their wives.
> 
> Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?
> 
> My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.
> 
> Thanks


Jealousy is not good or bad in itself. It is an emotion like any other. It is a gut feeling to protect the relationship. It is natural for a man to c0ckbl0ck. In fact it is an abberation for a man to suppress this emotion. When a man does this he does this out of fear of being the man he really is inside.

Flirting with other men would cause my marriage a huge problem. It would be unacceptable to me.

What are fancy clothes? My wife looking good is not a problem for me at all. I like her to dress sexy when we are out. That said she will not dress like this when we are not together. If she were to dress in a manner that draws the wrong attention to her then I would have a problem. The problem talking about clothes is that everyone has something in mind and therefore it is a tough discussion. If your breasts are swinging free in a manner where 50% of them are exposed and your nipples can often be seen from one angle or another there is a problem. If one is wearing see through clothing then maybe that is a problem. If one is wearing a skirt so short your cheeks peek out now and again you might have a problem. If you go out san panties in short dresses you might haave a problem.

I think GNOs are great. But any GNO involving other men would be a problem for me. This is especially an issue if one is drinking and hanging out late.

Dating other men would be a problem. This includes close male friends, meeting alone for any reason. Lunches, dinner, going over another man's place and so on.

Having an emotional bond with another man, texting, emailing, FB, phone calls whatever. This is usually pretty simple. If you are averaging more than a few exchanges a month you are having too much interaction. But the reason this is easy is that in general it becomes hundreds of contacts if not thousands in a month. So the gray can disappear quickly here.

Any kind of sexual play including dancing.

Anything that detracts from the primary relationship.

Not shutting a guy down fast enough. In general a woman should be able to dispatch another man quickly. All too often though for whatever reasons many women let the guy think he has a chance and let the guy keep trying.

Having friends is fine as long as the marriage is the #1 priority. You should be spending quality time with your husband. If these friends that compete with your husbands time are male then I am with your husband. 

I am sure there are other things but these come to mind.

But I would not settle for just being jealous. Being jealous is not something I could live with being without cutting my wife loose.


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## Entropy3000

cloudwithleggs said:


> why would anyone that really loves you be jealous.
> 
> now slight jealousy if you are flirting with another male and putting it right under his nose might cause fleeting jealousy, but i very much doubt that is the case, because why would you do that to someone you loved.
> 
> So what are you actually doing to make him jealous?
> 
> lets say do you like jumping through hoops because you may have to become an olympic athelite at it.


It would make no sense to be jealous about someone you do not love. In fact if you were not you would be a creepy stalker.

Not being jealous when you should be is not caring. It is ambivalence.


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## Runs like Dog

Nothing. I wouldn't call it jealousy, simply noting a degree of lack of respect. For instance yesterday for her was a 8+ hrs on the phone, making social chit chat calls, day. She wanted to watch a 2 hr movie at 11pm I told her to get stuffed.


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## mina

my DH has very clear boundaries and he communicates them to me in ways that I get it when I cross a line (rarely.) he's nice about it (the first time ... I have never gotten a 2nd warning so I don't know how that would be.) 

when we were first dating he acted really crazy about some guy at this party that he said I was eyeing. I wasn't. that was when I explained to him that I don't "do the jealousy thing" - as in I don't get jealous and I don't expect him to act that way either. the main requirement being of course you don't do anything that would overtly make me jealous and neither will I. 

we've never had that conversation again and as far as I know neither of us have crossed a line.

maybe have an agreement what's fair game to get jealous about.


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## Stonewall

never jealous of her with another person. The only jealousy that I can think of is jeralousy over her time. Our schdules are such that we have very little time together.


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## AFEH

confused55 said:


> I am asking men what makes them jealous about their wives.
> 
> Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?
> 
> My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.
> 
> Thanks


_Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. Jealousy often consists of a combination of presenting emotions such as anger, resentment, inadequacy, helplessness and disgust._ From Jealousy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.



Your H may be feeling jealous because of the type of man he is, he may naturally be insecure and anxious which may be caused by paranoia and possessiveness. So it could be nothing to do with you and everything to do with him.



Best the two of you get together with a counsellor to see if its your behaviour that’s causing the problem, the type of man he is or a combination of both. For sure you will have big problems if for whatever reason he feels insecure so it’s best to get it sorted.


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## costa200

> Your H may be feeling jealous because of the type of man he is, he may naturally be insecure and anxious which may be caused by paranoia and possessiveness. So it could be nothing to do with you and everything to do with him.


So... Your idea of a confident guy is one that doesn't mind his wife openly flirting with other guys? I have a different opinion. That's not confidence, it has another name!


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## Mavash.

confused55 said:


> Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?


Flirting with other men would make my husband nuts.

Wearing fancy clothes gives him twinges of insecurity if I'm going out alone. I do have to reassure him it's all for him. 

Having lots of friends would only be a problem if they came before him. Same with doing things without him.

Talking to other men well that depends on the why I'd be doing that. Overall yes he's jealous of other men so I try to keep my male contact to a minimum.


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## AFEH

costa200 said:


> So... Your idea of a confident guy is one that doesn't mind his wife openly flirting with other guys? I have a different opinion. That's not confidence, it has another name!


The OP’s asking what makes a man jealous. She hasn’t said that she actually does any of the things she listed, it’s a list of “possibilities”.

I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt and that’s how I interpreted her post anyway. Reckon you’re just jumping to conclusions and hammering the OP for as yet no reason.

Paranoid and deluded people, like those who say smoke cannabis, are “naturally” fearful, anxious, angry, resentful, inadequate and helpless. Which are the exact same emotions as those contained in jealousy.

And if that’s the case with her H, whatever she does wont make any difference to him. So she’s better off finding out what the situation is with a counsellor.


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## costa200

AFEH said:


> The OP’s asking what makes a man jealous. She hasn’t said that she actually does any of the things she listed, it’s a list of “possibilities”.
> 
> I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt and that’s how I interpreted her post anyway. Reckon you’re just jumping to conclusions and hammering the OP for as yet no reason.
> 
> Paranoid and deluded people, like those who say smoke cannabis, are “naturally” fearful, anxious, angry, resentful, inadequate and helpless. Which are the exact same emotions as those contained in jealousy.
> 
> And if that’s the case with her H, whatever she does wont make any difference to him. So she’s better off finding out what the situation is with a counsellor.


I think we read the OP's post differently. I see no reason for her to include stuff on the list if she isn't doing it. Why would she include behaviors that she doesn't do?

You may be right, but it's a weird way for the OP to ask an opinion isn't it?

BTW, i've been around a lot of people smoking cannabis and your description of them doesn't fit at all. In fact, my experience with those guys is the exact opposite. Never saw one angry or anxious. Where did you get that description from?

I think a better fit for that would be alcoholics. Some turn into angry helpless beasts.


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## AFEH

costa200 said:


> So... Your idea of a confident guy is one that doesn't mind his wife openly flirting with other guys? I have a different opinion. That's not confidence, it has another name!


There’s another possibility, it could be projection. It could be her H has his eyes on another woman or is in an EA/PA or has had one in the past which is now over.

So he could be projecting his own behaviour onto his wife and again get the emotions of fear, anxiety, anger, resentment, inadequacy and helplessness.


You seem to have a hair trigger and jump to all sorts of conclusions and judgements and make false accusations before fully understanding the situation. You most certainly got me wrong. That could be exactly what the OP’s H does with his wife, how his mind works as well.


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## Caribbean Man

I have never really been jealous of my wife.
Whether it talking to other men or hanging with her girlfriends.
We have boundaries.
Once she does not get too close to it, I'm ok.
Sometimes I purchase clothes THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HER IN and damn,
they are sexy.....


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## AFEH

costa200 said:


> I think we read the OP's post differently. I see no reason for her to include stuff on the list if she isn't doing it. Why would she include behaviors that she doesn't do?
> 
> You may be right, but it's a weird way for the OP to ask an opinion isn't it?
> 
> BTW, i've been around a lot of people smoking cannabis and your description of them doesn't fit at all. In fact, my experience with those guys is the exact opposite. Never saw one angry or anxious. Where did you get that description from?
> 
> I think a better fit for that would be alcoholics. Some turn into angry helpless beasts.


I gave up debating the effects of cannabis a while back. Now I just state the facts as I know them and have personal experience of via my son and a few buddies. It is a fact that its also getting a lot worse than it was before. But it is for those who smoke it, well to smoke it. If a parent who didn’t smoke wanted help with a son or daughter who did, I’d most certainly help them counter all the stupid, ignorant, naive and harmful arguments they use to justify smoking the stuff.


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## costa200

> You seem to have a hair trigger and jump to all sorts of conclusions and judgements and make false accusations before fully understanding the situation. You most certainly got me wrong. That could be exactly what the OP’s H does with his wife, how his mind works as well.


Or it can be that he is right in his grievances. Like i said before, if the OP isn't flirting i don't see why she asks about it. Wouldn't it be a totally useless question at that point? 

It's not really jumping to conclusions as much as it is expecting people to ask questions that are relevant to them. Imagine she returns and says "flirting? i don't do that". Then wouldn't it be a time waster of a question? 

But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe expecting logic coherence is too much to ask.


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## hotdogs

My husband is flirtatious with every woman he meets. She could be old, young, fat, thin, ugly, pretty it doesn't matter. He craves that attention, it makes him feel good. I don't mind it.
He also doesn't mind me flirting but he will get jealous when I'm being flirted with and he's not there. He gets all flustered when he thinks of my previous sex partners whereas I don't over his (often I become aroused). I get jealous when he takes women out to lunch for business. He almost always pays which he says is so he can get business out of them. It irks me because it's spending our damn money LOL. I get jealous when he rides women around in our cars. I dunno why, I just do. My husband never goes out drinking, whereas I will and guys will be there but so will girls. 
Sometimes when I'm PMSing or especially emotional I'll get angry when he talks about a hot girl on TV. But when I'm normal, he can tell me stuff like "hey don't throw out that Kate Upton GQ issue, I want to jerk off to it later" and I'll just giggle and put it in his office. It all depends on where a person is in their head I think.


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## AFEH

costa200 said:


> Or it can be that he is right in his grievances. Like i said before, if the OP isn't flirting i don't see why she asks about it. Wouldn't it be a totally useless question at that point?
> 
> It's not really jumping to conclusions as much as it is expecting people to ask questions that are relevant to them. Imagine she returns and says "flirting? i don't do that". Then wouldn't it be a time waster of a question?
> 
> But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe expecting logic coherence is too much to ask.


Well that’s a very big difference between you and me. I gave the OP enough intelligence to not ask her question if she were doing the things she listed. Because if she were that would be just plain dumb. 

On the other hand she did seem to me to be somehow bragging, but still I give her the benefit of the doubt because she’s here looking for answers.


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## costa200

AFEH said:


> Well that’s a very big difference between you and me. I gave the OP enough intelligence to not ask her question if she were doing the things she listed. Because if she were that would be just plain dumb.
> 
> On the other hand she did seem to me to be somehow bragging, but still I give her the benefit of the doubt because she’s here looking for answers.


Maybe she returns and clear up for us...


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## Entropy3000

I was offering things that would IF my wife did them would cause me a problem with her behavior.

FWIW, she never does anything disrespectful like these things I have mentioned. IF she did I would clear it up with her. I would not just feel jealous. But again there are legitimate reason for one to feel jealous in respones to the behavior of their spouse. How one deals with it matters.

A truly confident man does not brush these off. He requires respect and he is confident that his feeling are legitiamte and confident that he should and will act on those feeelings. He would have NO FEAR. That is confidence. A confident man would not be ambivalent to a poacher for example.

But I digress. This is really about the OP. It would be very helpful if she reeled this in and was more specific about her situation.


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## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> _Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. Jealousy often consists of a combination of presenting emotions such as anger, resentment, inadequacy, helplessness and disgust._ From Jealousy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
> 
> 
> Your H may be feeling jealous because of the type of man he is, he may naturally be insecure and anxious which may be caused by paranoia and possessiveness. So it could be nothing to do with you and everything to do with him.
> 
> 
> 
> Best the two of you get together with a counsellor to see if its your behaviour that’s causing the problem, the type of man he is or a combination of both. For sure you will have big problems if for whatever reason he feels insecure so it’s best to get it sorted.


Grabbing a quote from what you posted. 

_Manifestations of sexual jealousy differ across cultures. For example, in one culture, an “involved” woman flirting with, dancing with or kissing another man may be considered infidelity, whereas in another culture such behavior would be considered sheer fun and acceptable._

I live in a culture where the former is the case and not the latter.


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## Entropy3000

RClawson said:


> I have always been jealous of my wife's close relationships with other women. I guess it would not be a big deal but over the years she seems to have much deeper emotional relationships with them than me. How is it that she can talk for hours on a daily basis with one of these friends but struggles to talk for an hour with me?


I contend you have good reason to be as she takes this to what I would consider and extreme. Her fried is also a know cheater which adds credence to your feelings in my opinion.


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## AFEH

Entropy3000 said:


> Grabbing a quote from what you posted.
> 
> _Manifestations of sexual jealousy differ across cultures. For example, in one culture, an “involved” woman flirting with, dancing with or kissing another man may be considered infidelity, whereas in another culture such behavior would be considered sheer fun and acceptable._
> 
> I live in a culture where the former is the case and not the latter.


When I read the initial post, I thought “I’ve never been “jealous”, never felt it and never felt envy”. Then I did some research to understand what jealousy actually feels like.

I discovered it’s not a single emotion but a group of emotions as per ”Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. Jealousy often consists of a combination of presenting emotions such as anger, resentment, inadequacy, helplessness and disgust. It is not to be confused with envy.”

So the above is best prefaced with “Jealousy is a group/combination of emotions consisting of ……”. That is, it is not just one emotion like sadness, anger, fear etc.

So for sure I’ve felt the group of emotions that jealousy consists of. I valued my wife immensely, at times the thought of losing her was deeply hurtful.


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## Cosmos

confused55 said:


> I am asking men what makes them jealous about their wives.
> 
> Is it flirting with other men, wearing fancy clothes, having lots of friends, doing things without them, talking to other men, and more.....?
> 
> My husband has this problem, and I am trying to minimize it, but sometimes he seems unreasonable.
> 
> Thanks


I think there's a difference between feeling jealous and feeling that the boundaries that protect a relationship are being disrespected and/or threatened. I would say that openly flirting in front of a partner/spouse and having intimate/private conversations with other men fall into the latter category.


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## AFEH

Most certainly.

If an H is feeling jealous it’s probably because a boundary is being disrespected by his wife. But for me at least to make certain he’s best to check his feelings out to see if he’s being paranoid and/or deluded or if he’s projecting. If he doesn’t check these things out then there’s every likelihood that he’s being paranoid, deluded or projecting or maybe all three. How else would they know?

Because for sure if he’s being either of those things he can go off at half-**** with a hair-trigger. If he judges that he’s not deluded, not paranoid and not projecting, then he puts the responsibility for his wife’s behaviour directly on her.



On another note, some here think that a person is somehow an island totally unaffected by those around them as far as their emotions are concerned. Jealousy is one deep and powerful group of emotions that demonstrates just how wrong that particular philosophy of life is. No man is an island …. and all that.


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## Cosmos

AFEH said:


> If an H is feeling jealous it’s probably because a boundary is being disrespected by his wife. But for me at least to make certain he’s best to check his feelings out to see if he’s being paranoid and/or deluded or if he’s projecting. If he doesn’t check these things out then there’s every likelihood that he’s being paranoid, deluded or projecting or maybe all three. How else would they know?


I agree, AFEH. There are people who are 'naturally' jealous due to a host of reasons, including innate insecurity and low self-esteem. In such cases, their thoughts about their own apparent inadequacies can trigger negative feelings even when there is no real or apparent threat. But in the scenarios described by the OP (flirting with other men in front of a spouse/partner), even the most emotionally secure individual is likely to feel justifiably disrespected and threatened.


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## AFEH

costa200 said:


> I think we read the OP's post differently. I see no reason for her to include stuff on the list if she isn't doing it. Why would she include behaviors that she doesn't do?
> 
> You may be right, but it's a weird way for the OP to ask an opinion isn't it?


It sounds like you’ve had a lucky escape and not lived with a person who lives entirely in their own head and from there makes judgements without even so much of a hearing and persecutes and punishes when no crime has been committed. That is you haven’t lived with a person who is unforgiving, paranoid, deluded and projects their own behaviour onto others.

Whereas I obviously have and so I read the OP’s post very differently to many others.


But still at the end of the day I see the OP as a person trying to get out of her own head, indicated by the very fact that she’s trying to understand her H’s jealousy and where it comes from. Good for her I say.


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## AFEH

Cosmos said:


> I agree, AFEH. There are people who are 'naturally' jealous due to a host of reasons, including innate insecurity and low self-esteem. In such cases, their thoughts about their own apparent inadequacies can trigger negative feelings even when there is no real or apparent threat. But in the scenarios described by the OP (flirting with other men in front of a spouse/partner), even the most emotionally secure individual is likely to feel justifiably disrespected and threatened.


Looking at Confused’s other threads her H cheated on her. So that in and of itself will certainly make him paranoid and deluded and he’ll most certainly project his behaviour, his values and beliefs onto his wife. At least all three are clear and distinct possibilities. Most especially if the guy is incapable of getting outside his own head.

On top of all that, Confused may be exceedingly resentful and harbour massive amounts of anger and dislike for her H. Most especially if he hasn’t shown any remorse for deeply hurting her.

And if she is resentful she may well be getting her revenge by way of passive aggression, making him feel the painful negative cluster of emotions of jealousy and in that way wounding him.

Or if she truly didn’t know what makes a man jealous she may be doing research to (a) discover how to make her H jealous as some form of passive punishment or (b) to see if he truly loves her and really cares for her or (c) to see if he is still in love with the OW.


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## costa200

> It sounds like you’ve had a lucky escape and not lived with a person who lives entirely in their own head and from there makes judgements without even so much of a hearing and persecutes and punishes when no crime has been committed. That is you haven’t lived with a person who is unforgiving, paranoid, deluded and projects their own behaviour onto others.


No, i can't say i have that experience no... Sounds like a truckload of bad stuff...


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## Entropy3000

AFEH said:


> When I read the initial post, I thought “I’ve never been “jealous”, never felt it and never felt envy”. Then I did some research to understand what jealousy actually feels like.
> 
> I discovered it’s not a single emotion but a group of emotions as per ”Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, particularly in reference to a human connection. Jealousy often consists of a combination of presenting emotions such as anger, resentment, inadequacy, helplessness and disgust. It is not to be confused with envy.”
> 
> So the above is best prefaced with “Jealousy is a group/combination of emotions consisting of ……”. That is, it is not just one emotion like sadness, anger, fear etc.
> 
> So for sure I’ve felt the group of emotions that jealousy consists of. I valued my wife immensely, at times the thought of losing her was deeply hurtful.


While many people look at jealousy as a negative, I contend that in an of itself it can still be appropriate. I do not see anger for instance as a negative all by itself. It is there for a purpose. We need to be angry whne the situation calls for anger.
These feelings are for our survival. Surpressing these emotions is counter productive IF they are appropriate. Yes they can be negative if they are not appropriate. 

So my point is that if a person is indeed being jealous, I ask why? I do not assume that jelaousy means that they are flawed. Maybe they are. But it is just as likely they have reason to be. This is why I would need to know what the situation is and would have to make a judgement call on whether I personally felt the feelings were appropriate or not. But indeed society judges as well. It is trendy to some to have less monogamy in their life and they see a jealous spouse as jealous, insecure and controlling and other may view that spouse as having good boundaries.

Ultimately though I think it is unhealthy for this emotion to exist over an extended period whther justified or not. The emotion should push the person to take actions to deal with this. i.e. confront and work the issue out with their spouse, run off a poacher or indeed to move on from the relationship altogether. So yeah in this way these emotions are negative over a longer period but exist for our survival and ultimate happiness.


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## Amplexor

I don't get jealous, never have with any partner. Not even during our difficult times. Guess it's just not in me.


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## Caribbean Man

Entropy3000 said:


> While many people look at jealousy as a negative, I contend that in an of itself it can still be appropriate. I do not see anger for instance as a negative all by itself. It is there for a purpose. We need to be angry whne the situation calls for anger.
> These feelings are for our survival. Surpressing these emotions is counter productive IF they are appropriate. Yes they can be negative if they are not appropriate.
> 
> *So my point is that if a person is indeed being jealous, I ask why? I do not assume that jelaousy means that they are flawed. Maybe they are. But it is just as likely they have reason to be. This is why I would need to know what the situation is and would have to make a judgement call on whether I personally felt the feelings were appropriate or not. *But indeed society judges as well. It is trendy to some to have less monogamy in their life and they see a jealous spouse as jealous, insecure and controlling and other may view that spouse as having good boundaries.
> 
> Ultimately though I think it is unhealthy for this emotion to exist over an extended period whther justified or not. The emotion should push the person to take actions to deal with this. i.e. confront and work the issue out with their spouse, run off a poacher or indeed to move on from the relationship altogether. So yeah in this way these emotions are negative over a longer period but exist for our survival and ultimate happiness.


:iagree:

Jealousy is not in itself a negative emotion. Jealousy between lovers on a normal level serves as an indicator that one partner is uncomfortable with the other's action/ actions.

This can be juxtaposed with the relationship between our brain and our nervous system. Without it we would be unable to feel physical pain or pleasure.


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## AFEH

Amplexor said:


> I don't get jealous, never have with any partner. Not even during our difficult times. Guess it's just not in me.


When you discovered your wife in an affair you didn’t experience insecurity, fear and anxiety over the thought of losing her, what she meant to you and what she gave to you?

You didn’t feel any anger towards her or disgust at her behaviour or resent her behaviour in anyway whatsoever?

Surely that makes you indifferent?


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## AFEH

Entropy3000 said:


> While many people look at jealousy as a negative, I contend that in an of itself it can still be appropriate. I do not see anger for instance as a negative all by itself. It is there for a purpose. We need to be angry whne the situation calls for anger.
> These feelings are for our survival. Surpressing these emotions is counter productive IF they are appropriate. Yes they can be negative if they are not appropriate.
> 
> So my point is that if a person is indeed being jealous, I ask why? I do not assume that jelaousy means that they are flawed. Maybe they are. But it is just as likely they have reason to be. This is why I would need to know what the situation is and would have to make a judgement call on whether I personally felt the feelings were appropriate or not. But indeed society judges as well. It is trendy to some to have less monogamy in their life and they see a jealous spouse as jealous, insecure and controlling and other may view that spouse as having good boundaries.
> 
> Ultimately though I think it is unhealthy for this emotion to exist over an extended period whther justified or not. The emotion should push the person to take actions to deal with this. i.e. confront and work the issue out with their spouse, run off a poacher or indeed to move on from the relationship altogether. So yeah in this way these emotions are negative over a longer period but exist for our survival and ultimate happiness.


As some will know I was deeply in love with my wife for a very long time. From the age of eighteen in my teens to this latter stage of my life in my sixties. In all that time the thought of her sleeping with another man, of giving another her affections, of perhaps losing her generated all sorts of negative emotions in me. And the opposite is true. I am immensely blessed by being able to recall all the positive emotions of love, joy, happiness, desire and passion she brought into my life.

After we split she told me she’d never be with another man. First off I don’t believe anyone can predict in that way what will come into their life and how they will respond to it. But most importantly I am totally indifferent as to whether she gets another guy permanently into her life, or not. I don’t care if she’s been spending her time with ONS, out on GNOs or whatever. I just don’t care. I do though feel exceedingly blessed by having her in my life for such a very long time.


However my indifference towards her and a total lack of any negative emotions like jealousy wrt what she’s doing or who she may be with tell me how very much I just don’t love her anymore. And in some strange way, that’s a massive release for me.


----------



## Cosmos

> AFEH posted: Looking at Confused’s other threads her H cheated on her. So that in and of itself will certainly make him paranoid and deluded and he’ll most certainly project his behaviour, his values and beliefs onto his wife. At least all three are clear and distinct possibilities. Most especially if the guy is incapable of getting outside his own head.


Yes, I can quite see projection being a possible source of jealousy, too. 




> And if she is resentful she may well be getting her revenge by way of passive aggression, making him feel the painful negative cluster of emotions of jealousy and in that way wounding him.


Although negative, a natural response, perhaps.


----------



## AFEH

Cosmos said:


> Yes, I can quite see projection being a possible source of jealousy, too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although negative, a natural response, perhaps.


Yes a natural response and as such "instinctual human behaviour".

I'm sure you'll agree us humans are capable of being far better than our natural instincts and that meeting a shet test with a shet test is not the way to go because that just keeps destroying bridge after bridge until it's gone far too far and there's no way back. Until there's no way, no path back to love and all its promises.


----------



## Cosmos

> Entropy said: Ultimately though I think it is unhealthy for this emotion to exist over an extended period whther justified or not. The emotion should push the person to take actions to deal with this. i.e. confront and work the issue out with their spouse, run off a poacher or indeed to move on from the relationship altogether. So yeah in this way these emotions are negative over a longer period but exist for our survival and ultimate happiness.


I agree. For whatever reason jealousy has reared its ugly head, it needs to be dealt with.

I don't think it's ever helpful to simply tell a partner / spouse that they're jealous, without helping to address the problem and modify our own behaviour if, indeed, it is inappropriate.


----------



## Cosmos

AFEH said:


> Yes a natural response and as such "instinctual human behaviour".
> 
> I'm sure you'll agree us humans are capable of being far better than our natural instincts and that meeting a shet test with a shet test is not the way to go because that just keeps destroying bridge after bridge until it's gone far too far and there's no way back. Until there's no way, no path back to love and all its promises.


:iagree: Shet tests can be highly destructive methods of dealing with issues in relationships.


----------



## Amplexor

AFEH said:


> When you discovered your wife in an affair you didn’t experience insecurity,


Yes, but this is not jealousy in my opinion.



AFEH said:


> fear and anxiety over the thought of losing her, what she meant to you and what she gave to you?


Yes, same as above



AFEH said:


> You didn’t feel any anger towards her or disgust at her behavior or resent her behavior in anyway whatsoever?


No, upon self reflection I had a pretty good idea of how she got to where she was. I understood why she emotionally stepped outside the marriage. I was never angry with her. Disapointed would be a better word. 





AFEH said:


> Surely that makes you indifferent?


Not in the least, as I do not consider my other emotions as jealousy. Recovery of my marriage proved to be the most difficult 3 years of my life. Hardly indifferent. Jealousy is simply a different emotion in my opinion and was kept in check by my confidence that I was the better man by far.

My wife still has a male friend, it doesn't bother me. I don't feel jealous of him or of the friendship. They are co-workers and frequently work on projects together. But there is no contact between them outside of work. Do I keep my radar up for any signs that it might be something more. Certainly, you can't go through what we did and not. But if you are secure in your relationship with your spouse there's no need for jealousy. Due diligence, yes. But again that is not jealousy.


----------



## AFEH

Amplexor said:


> Yes, but this is not jealousy in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, same as above
> 
> 
> 
> No, upon self reflection I had a pretty good idea of how she got to where she was. I understood why she emotionally stepped outside the marriage. I was never angry with her. Disapointed would be a better word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the least, as I do not consider my other emotions as jealousy. Recovery of my marriage proved to be the most difficult 3 years of my life. Hardly indifferent. Jealousy is simply a different emotion in my opinion and was kept in check by my confidence that I was the better man by far.
> 
> My wife still has a male friend, it doesn't bother me. I don't feel jealous of him or of the friendship. They are co-workers and frequently work on projects together. But there is no contact between them outside of work. Do I keep my radar up for any signs that it might be something more. Certainly, you can't go through what we did and not. But if you are secure in your relationship with your spouse there's no need for jealousy. Due diligence, yes. But again that is not jealousy.


I think you just redefined jealousy to suite your own needs! You were obviously far from indifferent.

From Jealousy | Psychology Today.
_As emotions go, jealousy is neither subtle nor kind, but it is definitely complex, encompassing feelings from fear of abandonment to rage to humiliation. It strikes both men and women when they perceive a third-party threat to a valued relationship, and that distinguishes it from envy, which involves wanting something someone else has. Conventional wisdom holds that jealousy is a necessary emotion because it preserves social bonds, but it more often destroys them. And it can give rise to relationship violence._


Nought wrong with being jealous. It’s a natural and instinctual part of being a man who’s very in love with his woman. But jealousy is a combination of emotions and perhaps that’s why you say you weren’t jealous even though what you describe you felt is a description of jealousy.


----------



## Amplexor

AFEH said:


> I think you just redefined jealousy to suite your own needs! You were obviously far from indifferent.


Not in the least. I'm simply secure in the relationship I don't feel jealousy. I was confident enough during recovery that I didn't feel it either. Was I afraid I would loose my marriage and wife, certainly but that is a completely different emotion in my opinion. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong, I think a little jealousy can be healthy in a marriage but too much of it can destroy it as your definition states and we see here on occasion. It just doesn't seem to be an emotion that runs in me.


----------



## Entropy3000

Amplexor said:


> Yes, but this is not jealousy in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, same as above
> 
> 
> 
> No, upon self reflection I had a pretty good idea of how she got to where she was. I understood why she emotionally stepped outside the marriage. I was never angry with her. Disapointed would be a better word.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not in the least, as I do not consider my other emotions as jealousy. Recovery of my marriage proved to be the most difficult 3 years of my life. Hardly indifferent. Jealousy is simply a different emotion in my opinion and was kept in check by my confidence that I was the better man by far.
> 
> My wife still has a male friend, it doesn't bother me. I don't feel jealous of him or of the friendship. They are co-workers and frequently work on projects together. But there is no contact between them outside of work. Do I keep my radar up for any signs that it might be something more. Certainly, you can't go through what we did and not. But if you are secure in your relationship with your spouse there's no need for jealousy. Due diligence, yes. But again that is not jealousy.


So then you see the term jealousy as being judgemental. Many folks do. I see it is a normal and sometimes healthy emotion that pushes one to action or an unhealthy emotion that is based on problems with the jealous party. 

So when she asks what could be making her husband jealous you see her as assuming his feelings are bad. I was seeing her question as asking what behaviors she may be doing that could reasonably or unreasonably cause her husband to feel jealous.

So then what do we call the emotions we feel when there is something wrong if not jealous?

Again I think jealousy is acurrate either way and it is an opinion as to whether it is justified or not. You feel it is not jealosy if those same feelings are justified .... I guess.

I do not see any of us actually disagreeing on appropriate and inappropriate emotions. We just have different views on what to call them. I am comofrtable with a contiuum with its shades of gray for jelaous to run the gamet and that whether it is postive or negative is very much a judgement call depending on the circumstances. Some folks feel that jealousy is a paranoia as opposed to a response to reality.


----------



## AFEH

Amplexor said:


> Not in the least. I'm simply secure in the relationship I don't feel jealousy. I was confident enough during recovery that I didn't feel it either. Was I afraid I would loose my marriage and wife, certainly but that is a completely different emotion in my opinion. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong, I think a little jealousy can be healthy in a marriage but too much of it can destroy it as your definition states and we see here on occasion. It just doesn't seem to be an emotion that runs in me.


For me in your previous post you described a lack of envy, not a lack of jealousy of the other guy.

From Envy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia _“Envy is best defined as a resentful emotion that "occurs when a person lacks another's (perceived) superior quality, achievement or possession and wishes that the other lacked it”. _


In that you knew yourself to be the better man, he was not better than you and that gave you confidence. Which means you weren’t envious of him. Not that you weren’t jealous of him.


For me you sound confused between jealousy and envy. It is your wife who has the capability of making you feel the multiple negative emotions of jealousy, but only because you love her! Not the OM. He could not make you feel jealous.


If you perceived/judged he was a better man than you, then that would have created within you the emotions associated with envy, not the emotions associated with jealousy.


For me envy is a bad emotion, jealousy a good (set of) emotions, even though they are negative and painful. They are there in order that we do something about the situation in order that we move out of our pain. Envy is unhealthy, jealousy healthy provided of course it's valid and warranted and not paranoia or whatever.




Excuse me if I’m banging on a bit much here but I too would have said I’ve never been jealous. Whereas when I looked into it I for sure had a whole bundle of very negative emotions when for example I walked in on my wife in the arms of another man. I just didn’t know the collective term for such emotions is “jealousy”.


----------



## confused55

Thanks for all of your comments. I really didn't expect so many varied responses.

Just to clarify a few things -

When I say flirt with men, I mean talk to them and maybe laugh. This drives my husband crazy because I look happy talking to them, even if he is in on the same conversation. If I start talking too much, he clams up and gets really moody.

He likes me to dress really conservatively. I like to maybe wear a bright coloured top or something like that once in awhile. Meanwhile, he loves to stare at young, provocatively dressed women, but I have to wear dowdy stuff.

I have two close friends I have had for 30 years and he is very concerned about me speaking to them, having lunch, etc. He never was before. They even are asking me what's up with him.

He has cheated on me. Since this incident and his getting older, he is getting much worse with the jealousy and I kind of feel like he wants to know everything I am doing with everything in my day.

He is a very quiet, nice, person with low self-esteem and insecurities. He always has been, but now it's really getting blown out of proportion.

I am much more outgoing and social and he doesn't seem to like it at all now.

After his betrayal, he is really getting out of hand with all of this and I just don't know how to handle it.

I have been to counselling and my counsellor said I should develop more interests and be more social so that if he cheats again, I will have more things going on in my life. He doesn't want that.

They say women are hard to understand, I'm just baffled by him. Been married 30 years, and now this is becoming a problem.


----------



## confused55

One more thing, he doesn't have many friends himself.


----------



## Kobo

I would be jealous of my wife giving more energy or focus to people/things than to me. Also, people should stop acting like jealousy is some horrible thing. Its a natural emotion. People just need to learn how to respond to it. I've told my wife I was jealous of the time she was spending on a hobby. I didn't ask her to quit or go crazy. Just asked that she be mindfull of its impact on our time together. I'm sure she felt good knowing her husband wanted to spend more time with her. JMO


----------



## AFEH

Have the two of you totally resolved his affair by going through a forgiveness and reconciliation process?

Or do you still have an underlying but high level of anger and dislike for your husband caused by his affair?

Have you healed your wounds with the help of your husband?

Have you totally, one hundred percent and irrevocably forgiven your husband for his affair?


Because if no is the answer to any of the above the two of you have a heck of a lot of work in front of you and all the negative emotions associated with jealousy, envy, anger, dislike, revenge, sadness, maybe depression will be in your marriage such that love, peace and harmony wont even get a look in the window even if they’re knocking on the door. Neither of you will hear the knocking even though the two of you probably still love one another.

Again for me it is a fact that you will be a passive/overt aggressor if the answer to any of the above is no. There’s no way you couldn’t be if you didn’t confront things head on, established new boundaries, resolved your issues and healed your wounds.

So even though you may not realise it, in that it may be subconscious behaviour, you are probably set on persecuting your husband and getting your revenge on your husband.


----------



## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

One thing that my husband does get jealous is that on nice days I'm home and he's at work. 

He has no issues at all that I'm a SAHM. It was his idea to begin with. It took me a year to quit and 2 years to settle in my role since I was so active and on my feet all day. I can't go back to work due to being disabled from a freak accident a few years back, so any money I bring in is done at home. My husband just wishes he could be at home more often with the kids and I. I would like him home too.

I do not flirt or talk with other men and I dress up only for my husband.


----------



## confused55

AFEH said:


> Have the two of you totally resolved his affair by going through a forgiveness and reconciliation process?
> 
> Or do you still have an underlying but high level of anger and dislike for your husband caused by his affair?
> 
> Have you healed your wounds with the help of your husband?
> 
> Have you totally, one hundred percent and irrevocably forgiven your husband for his affair?
> 
> 
> Because if no is the answer to any of the above the two of you have a heck of a lot of work in front of you and all the negative emotions associated with jealousy, envy, anger, dislike, revenge, sadness, maybe depression will be in your marriage such that love, peace and harmony wont even get a look in the window even if they’re knocking on the door. Neither of you will hear the knocking even though the two of you probably still love one another.
> 
> Again for me it is a fact that you will be a passive/overt aggressor if the answer to any of the above is no. There’s no way you couldn’t be if you didn’t confront things head on, established new boundaries, resolved your issues and healed your wounds.
> 
> So even though you may not realise it, in that it may be subconscious behaviour, you are probably set on persecuting your husband and getting your revenge on your husband.



I don't think I can ever forgive him, and it's probably got a lot to do with him not ever wanting to mention it. He just wants to go on like nothing ever happened. We talked a lot about the cheating for a couple of months after it happened, but he refuses to speak of it since then.

I don't have any thoughts of revenge on him, just a lot of disappointment in him.

The watching my every move and jealousy is really getting to me at the moment though. It's like he is paranoid of what I might do. I haven't, don't and won't be doing anything to harm the marriage.

The forgiveness, I just can't do for now.


----------



## Entropy3000

confused55 said:


> Thanks for all of your comments. I really didn't expect so many varied responses.
> 
> Just to clarify a few things -
> 
> When I say flirt with men, I mean talk to them and maybe laugh. This drives my husband crazy because I look happy talking to them, even if he is in on the same conversation. If I start talking too much, he clams up and gets really moody.
> 
> He likes me to dress really conservatively. I like to maybe wear a bright coloured top or something like that once in awhile. Meanwhile, he loves to stare at young, provocatively dressed women, but I have to wear dowdy stuff.
> 
> I have two close friends I have had for 30 years and he is very concerned about me speaking to them, having lunch, etc. He never was before. They even are asking me what's up with him.
> 
> He has cheated on me. Since this incident and his getting older, he is getting much worse with the jealousy and I kind of feel like he wants to know everything I am doing with everything in my day.
> 
> He is a very quiet, nice, person with low self-esteem and insecurities. He always has been, but now it's really getting blown out of proportion.
> 
> I am much more outgoing and social and he doesn't seem to like it at all now.
> 
> After his betrayal, he is really getting out of hand with all of this and I just don't know how to handle it.
> 
> I have been to counselling and my counsellor said I should develop more interests and be more social so that if he cheats again, I will have more things going on in my life. He doesn't want that.
> 
> They say women are hard to understand, I'm just baffled by him. Been married 30 years, and now this is becoming a problem.


I think the main issue is that he cheated. There is a huge difference between dressing nice and looking good versus dressing inappropriately provocative.

So he sounds off base on this.

The laughing ... idunno. probably more of the same by that is something I would have to see to judge.

Are the friends of 30 years male or female.

He is probably projecting here. Perhaps feels that since he cheated that you will return the favor.


----------



## Cosmos

confused55 said:


> Thanks for all of your comments. I really didn't expect so many varied responses.
> 
> Just to clarify a few things -
> 
> When I say flirt with men, I mean talk to them and maybe laugh. This drives my husband crazy because I look happy talking to them, even if he is in on the same conversation. If I start talking too much, he clams up and gets really moody.
> 
> _[I don't see this as flirting. It sounds like he's projecting onto you. That is, because of his own infidelity, he's seeing you talking and laughing with other men as a threat because of what he has done himself.]
> _
> 
> He likes me to dress really conservatively. I like to maybe wear a bright coloured top or something like that once in awhile. Meanwhile, he loves to stare at young, provocatively dressed women, but I have to wear dowdy stuff.
> 
> _[Again, he's projecting onto you and those you come into contact with. Staring at other women in your company is downright disrespectful]_
> 
> I have two close friends I have had for 30 years and he is very concerned about me speaking to them, having lunch, etc. He never was before. They even are asking me what's up with him.
> 
> _[Again, controlling behaviour]_
> 
> He is a very quiet, nice, person with low self-esteem and insecurities. He always has been, but now it's really getting blown out of proportion.
> _
> [He needs to deal with his self-esteem and insecurity issues.]_
> 
> I have been to counselling and my counsellor said I should develop more interests and be more social so that if he cheats again, I will have more things going on in my life. He doesn't want that.



It does sound as though you're having to pay for his infidelity. It doesn't sound like you're disrespecting him or giving him reason to be jealous - he just is because of what he's done himself.

Providing you're not dressing provocatively, going clubbing with your female friends or neglecting him, the issue is his and he needs to deal with it.


----------



## confused55

To answer a couple of questions -

I don't dress provocatively, don't go clubbing, and the friends are females that he has also known for 30 years.

He just wants me totally focused on him. I'm disgusted in myself for still being with him.


----------



## Cosmos

confused55 said:


> To answer a couple of questions -
> 
> I don't dress provocatively, don't go clubbing, and the friends are females that he has also known for 30 years.
> 
> He just wants me totally focused on him. I'm disgusted in myself for still being with him.


Confused, did you both go for MC after his affair? If not, could his be an option?


----------



## Entropy3000

confused55 said:


> To answer a couple of questions -
> 
> I don't dress provocatively, don't go clubbing, and the friends are females that he has also known for 30 years.
> 
> He just wants me totally focused on him. I'm disgusted in myself for still being with him.


Then this does sound ... odd on his part. I don't get it but I do think this relates back to his infidelity.


----------



## bubbly girl

Ahhh, thanks for elaborating. That changes things.

It sounds like he's trying to put you in a bubble to assure you don't leave him. I agree with the other posters who think this stems from his own infidelity.

It sounds like your being punished because he wasn't trustworthy. I agree with the suggestion of MC. He needs to get a grip on his behavior before he completely drives you away.


----------



## AFEH

confused55 said:


> To answer a couple of questions -
> 
> I don't dress provocatively, don't go clubbing, and the friends are females that he has also known for 30 years.
> 
> He just wants me totally focused on him. *I'm disgusted in myself for still being with him.*


There is an under laying tone in your posts that suggest you don’t respect your H. When respect has gone that can lead to disgust of him and therefore of yourself for staying with him.

Which begs the question, why are you still there with him? What is it that’s keeping you there?


----------



## AFEH

confused55 said:


> I'm thinking of leaving my husband after 3 months of knowing he went to a massage with a "happy ending" (hand job).
> 
> He has apologized, cried, going to counselling, been really good and says he went astray.
> 
> I just can't face the fact that I have a husband who did this, and probably won't ever be able to live with it in any form.
> 
> 
> It sickens me to death, even though he's been almost the perfect husband and father for 30 years.
> 
> Is this too drastic? Am going to counselling also.





confused55 said:


> I recently caught my husband through an email, setting up an appointment for erotic massages.
> 
> He said he started viewing porn about 4 years ago. I noticed he wasn't that interested in me anymore at the time, but just assumed he was getting older and loosing sex drive. Naive me.
> 
> He said when he was working out of town, in one town in particular, a friend suggested he go to an erotic massage for hand held happy endings. Full on nude, both him and the woman.
> 
> He said he started thinking about this a couple of months before he went. She has a website, so he was obviously leering, getting off on that, before actually going in person.
> 
> The next time he was in the town, he went to her for his sicko fantasy. Then he went again two months later when he was there again.
> 
> Since he's been caught, he goes to counselling, says he's off the porn and doesn't want to go back on.
> 
> His sexual interest in me has resumed, but it seems strained (like trying too hard, things don't always function).
> 
> He doesn't think he has a problem, but you never know with him because he is so quiet and introverted you never know what's going on with him.
> 
> He says he's also visited strip clubs with coworkers when out of town.
> 
> He's never going to that town again as of now.
> 
> Anyway, I guess, what I am asking is - Porn for 4 years, no sex with wife, strip clubs leading to erotic massages. Is this addiction or compulsion? He says he has no interest anymore because of how bad it's been for his work life and home life.
> 
> I just wonder if he thinks about all this stuff still at this time, or if he's lying to me.




I’m guessing that amongst all your problems and emotions, the biggest one is that you’ve been betrayed by your husband of 30 years? That you’ve discovered that over the past four years or so you were deluded by him as to what he was doing and what he thought and felt about you? That you feel he has been two faced and exceptionally deceitful?

The betrayal by a long term partner has a massive emotional affect on a person. While I never want to go near minimising another’s pain even by inference, I do believe the longer we’ve been in a relationship the bigger the betrayal feels and the greater impact it has. Thirty years is indeed a very long time and his betrayal will probably make you examine every singly year to see if he betrayed you way back when.

So you know what you are facing do some research on the emotional impact of betrayal, for example The Effects of Betrayal.

When this sort of thing happens to us we come to realise that something has died. What in fact has died is something we thought we had but didn’t really have. We thought we had our partner’s loyalty, their trust, their fidelity, their honesty, their love and affection. This is where the delusion comes in, in that they deluded us, made us believe we had something that we didn’t have. They deceived us and lied through their teeth to us.

So over and above the emotions of betrayal you will also be struggling with the emotions of grief. Yes you will be grieving for the loss of the husband you thought you had. Research the grieving process, it will explain to you a lot of what you are going through.

And above and beyond all that you have a husband who appears far more concerned about how he feels than about how you feel. That means he has no empathy or compassion for you which will most certainly compound and make you feel a far lot worse.


----------



## AFEH

confused55 said:


> *I don't think I can ever forgive him, and it's probably got a lot to do with him not ever wanting to mention it*. He just wants to go on like nothing ever happened. We talked a lot about the cheating for a couple of months after it happened, but he refuses to speak of it since then.
> 
> I don't have any thoughts of revenge on him, just a lot of disappointment in him.
> 
> The watching my every move and jealousy is really getting to me at the moment though. It's like he is paranoid of what I might do. I haven't, don't and won't be doing anything to harm the marriage.
> 
> *The forgiveness, I just can't do for now.*


I think you are in a which comes first, the chicken or the egg type situation. For example, does an apology come before forgiveness is given or is forgiveness given before an apology?

For sure while you are unforgiving you will be angry, bitter and resentful. And while you are angry, bitter and resentful you will punish your husband. To be unforgiven is one of the most extreme punishments of all within a marriage. So don’t kid yourself, you are punishing your husband in the most extreme way that you can.

But it’s even worse that that. In that by not forgiving him you are persecuting him for what he did to you in the past.

But it’s bad for you too! By not forgiving him you are holding your wounds open instead of letting them heal. Every single day you will be picking at your wounds, keeping them festering and open. And this will go on as long as you don’t forgive him and as long as the two of you stay together. You could be together another twenty years and still you will pick at your wounds and keep them open. It happens.

And while your wounds are open, while you remain bitter, angry and resentful that love you both felt for each other is waiting outside the two of you, looking to see a way back in but even if it can see a way it wont enter because love does not like anger, bitterness, resentment. Love sees those things as things which kill it off so it stays away.

If you really cannot forgive him, then leave him. Believe me the two of you will be far better off apart in the medium to long term than you ever will be together because at least there will be a chance of re-finding love with another person and of living a life that does not have hatred, bitterness, anger and resentment within it.


----------



## costa200

Lots of mixed signals... You want to work on things that upset your husband, yet you are disgusted with yourself for being with him. You're staying for the kids or something?


----------



## confused55

AFEH,

You spelled it out and as I read it, you are bang on. 

He has apologized many times in the past, but won't speak of it now.

I asked him to leave when this all happened, but he refused. I am resentful of that as well. He could have at least given me some time alone to think, but he wouldn't give me a moment. I think he thought, once he was out the door, he wouldn't be back and that would kill him.

I've given a lot of thought to the fact of me still being here. I haven't left because I don't have a job right now and also we have 2 daughters in their twenties who don't live at home but come home many times a week to eat, visit, etc. He has been the best dad to them and it would crush their spirits (as it did mine) if they found out about his infidelity.

Also, I do still love him and care about him, but the resentment and disgust is a huge barrier in my recovery.


----------



## AFEH

confused55 said:


> AFEH,
> 
> You spelled it out and as I read it, you are bang on.
> 
> He has apologized many times in the past, but won't speak of it now.
> 
> I asked him to leave when this all happened, but he refused. I am resentful of that as well. He could have at least given me some time alone to think, but he wouldn't give me a moment. I think he thought, once he was out the door, he wouldn't be back and that would kill him.
> 
> I've given a lot of thought to the fact of me still being here. I haven't left because I don't have a job right now and also we have 2 daughters in their twenties who don't live at home but come home many times a week to eat, visit, etc. He has been the best dad to them and it would crush their spirits (as it did mine) if they found out about his infidelity.
> 
> Also, I do still love him and care about him, but the resentment and disgust is a huge barrier in my recovery.


There is a massive amount of hope for you. And that hope is based on your honesty. As an aside, I love your honesty, it’s a value I hold dear to my heart. If your H has your honesty, he has one of the most precious gifts in the world.

People are, well people and sometimes we gotta laugh about that. You’ve discovered that your H is human. Not only a very good H and father, but also a man with a dark side. Believe me nobody on our planet is perfect.

You two need to get back together. You need to let love back in and give that very precious thing a chance, an opportunity to grow, blossom and mature.

Take a look at The Marriage Course - Explore the Marriage Course | Alpha USA. Examine it, analyse it. I know the type of people that created it and run it and I know they are among the most warm, affectionate and wise people.

I think it’s right for you and your H. It’s outside help, a different paradigm full of knowledge, love and wisdom.


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