# No sex in 9 years, and I am attractive! What am I supposed to do?



## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

I posted in going thru seperation/divorce forum and just thought I would see what a mans perspective is on this scenario. H and I have been together for 15 years, 3 children who are 8 and I have emotionally disconnected years ago. The sex life was OK when we were dating, with that being said I initiated at least 85% of the time. 

I was experienced and enjoy sex a great deal, my H was not. I am very outgoing and straightforward, my H is laid back and analytical. Anyway in the 15 years we have had sex maybe 75 times??? And this includes struggling thru infertility. And before you say it, there were genetic issues....not just lack of sexual contact....although that did not help things!

I want out, I am no longer in love with him and am miserably unhappy with my life right now. It is affecting me being a good mother to my children which is the most important thing in the world to me. 

I have built resentment over the sex issue, I quit initiating and got tired of having to do it all and that is when it stopped all together!!! We do not fight and he believes that because he has been a wonderful husband in all other areas plus the best dad possible (which he is) that the sex should not be a deal breaker???

What do you think and is there any hope for rekindling if it really was never there?? 

I don't want to be a walk-away wife but is it truly the right thing to stay just for the kids? Don't they deserve better than the unhappiness they see from me and the tension in our home because things are just not "right"? My H and I are both in our early 40's also if that matters when forming your opinions.

There's more to the story but no major issues other than lack of communication and tons of rug sweeping obviously!!

Am I a horrible woman for wanting to leave?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

when you find the answer let all the frustrated married people who were looking foward to haveing sex as part of their marriage to only come away with resentment and bitterness.


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## AgentD (Dec 27, 2010)

TGTLTBTS said:


> I want out, I am no longer in love with him and am miserably unhappy with my life right now. It is affecting me being a good mother to my children which is the most important thing in the world to me.
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think and is there any hope for rekindling if it really was never there??



It seems you have made up your mind, so not sure why you would ask if there is a chance to try and rekindle things.

You can't help how you feel period, so don't feel bad. IF for whatever reason you DO want things to try and work, do you feel your husband does to? Does he wont out as well? If you want to try and salvage things, I would suggest MC ASAP. 

Try to do everything you can to save it before throwing in the towel. However, if you are truly tied of it all, and really want out, then thats what you need to do.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

You have an opposite value (sex) for one of the core foundations of a healthy marriage. You value sex, your husband doesn’t. Most divorce after a clash of fundamental values. After all this time he is never going to change. Only possibility/chance he will change is when he has the divorce papers in his hands and he’s looking into the abyss: of life without you and essentially without his children, financial implications etc. etc. etc. but even then there are no guarantees.


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## trey69 (Dec 29, 2010)

AFEH said:


> You have an opposite value (sex) for one of the core foundations of a healthy marriage. You value sex, your husband doesn’t. Most divorce after a clash of fundamental values. After all this time he is never going to change. Only possibility/chance he will change is when he has the divorce papers in his hands and he’s looking into the abyss: of life without you and essentially without his children, financial implications etc. etc. etc. but even then there are no guarantees.


:iagree:


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

I am currently in IC and H just started seeing one again also after I asked why he had stopped?? We currently have decided to seperate after the first of the year to see if there is any hope of things changing. So not exactly ready to throw the towel in yet just don't see much hope after this long of a period of time and the resentment that has built up.

My H does not want a divorce, but I am not convinced that his reasons are valid.....of course both of us are very concerned with the childrens well being thru a divorce but other than the kids I feel he is worried about how he will be "viewed" in our community! And being together this long and moving on is a scary prospect for both of us.

Thru all of this he has not one time told me he doesn't want to lose me "because he loves" me, and has admitted that when we first were together I was head over heels in love with him but he was just kinda there! Is that fair?? Is that enough for me?? 

I want to be happy, I want my kids to see me happy...and their dad. I have made no decisions....I just have serious doubt that repairs can be made at this point.

Once we separate our IC will then become MC, our counselor thinks there must be some drastic "change" in our relationship before anything will ever be better and we both agree!

I have so much guilt.....I should just be satisfied with what I do have and forget what is missing! I don't want to hurt anyone. It is a nightmare and my mind goes 100 miles an hour 24/7 with all of this!!!!


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## speakingforsomemen (Dec 12, 2011)

If I may add, you wanted input from men. I can tell you, we, men, some men, let me qualify, get bored with one woman. I don't see a lot of discussion here, I am new to this Board, but inherently men are wanderers. Now many are probably gonna jump on me about that, but it is a fact. I for one am tired of having unfulfiilled needs but can't act on anything because society has set down very unnatural rules for me. We make choices in our 20s or so, we are then committed to that choice. I bet if I polled the men on this board, the honest men, as many as 60-70 % would say they are bored with their sex life. Men need variety but society says no. No you can't do that. No one is smart enough to be an adult and admit that some men simply have wandering genes, they have to have variety. Now, let me say, it does not necessarily mean they cannot love their wife. Of course they can, but, the act of sex, which certainly is an act of love, is viewed differently by many men. Now, I am sure I just got into trouble here. I wish, society would rewrite the rules. Marriage is really untenable for many men, but they cannot admit it or are not smart enough to deal with it. Women have us right where they want us because society dictates it. Think about it. You are most likely very attractive, you were to him when you first met. You are likely very attractive to the guy you pass in the grocery store, gas station, at work. They would likely do anything to meet you. You have to understand the biology here. It is complex biology but fits in with our ancestors and their behavior which was required for survival. I hope I have not offended you.


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

TGTLTBTS, you make it sound as though your husband is more focused on his image than he is on your happiness. Almost like you are some kind of accessory for him. Is that about right or is it an unfair assessment of your husband?


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

It sounds like your problem is not lack of sex, it's lack of intimacy. Your husband is a great dad and a great husband, but he's not connecting with you at all. I had the same problem until my wife started an EA and I realized how much of an idiot I was.

Yes there is hope, but your husband has to realize how serious it is to you. Talk of separation should be a pretty big wake up call. MC is a must, you won't be able to communicate your needs without the resentment. A mediator will help you say what you want to say without the bitterness.

Also, a letter is a good idea. Do something nice for him when you're both having a GOOD day, and then write out how you feel. Let him know that you want to make it work, that you desire to have an emotional connection and be madly in love with him. Let him know exactly what you need for that to happen. Be very specific. Say things like, "I need you to spend 15 minutes a night talking to me about your day." "I need you to take me on a romantic date once a week". Ask him what he needs to be connected to you and to feel loved.

Assuming nothing medical happened or is wrong, if you used to have sex frequently, then the problem seems to be emotional/relational. Reconnecting with your husband will probably rekindle those sparks.

Remember your husband is probably not feeling loved either, guys have a hard time sharing their feelings. I would definitely recommend the 5 Love Languages book by Gary Chapman. If you haven't read it, it might rock your world. Me and my wife speak different love languages and it's very easy for both of us to feel like we're trying hard for the other but both of us feel unloved. Now that we've recognized it, we focus on doing things that have maximum impact on the other.

You may in the end decide to end the marriage. Your husband may not really care. But you owe it to yourself and your kids to give it a god's honest try for a few weeks/months before you end it. The Love Dare is another good one to try for a last ditch effort at getting through.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

speakingforsomemen said:


> If I may add, you wanted input from men. I can tell you, we, men, some men, let me qualify, get bored with one woman. I don't see a lot of discussion here, I am new to this Board, but inherently men are wanderers. Now many are probably gonna jump on me about that, but it is a fact. I for one am tired of having unfulfiilled needs but can't act on anything because society has set down very unnatural rules for me. We make choices in our 20s or so, we are then committed to that choice. I bet if I polled the men on this board, the honest men, as many as 60-70 % would say they are bored with their sex life. Men need variety but society says no. No you can't do that. No one is smart enough to be an adult and admit that some men simply have wandering genes, they have to have variety. Now, let me say, it does not necessarily mean they cannot love their wife. Of course they can, but, the act of sex, which certainly is an act of love, is viewed differently by many men. Now, I am sure I just got into trouble here. I wish, society would rewrite the rules. Marriage is really untenable for many men, but they cannot admit it or are not smart enough to deal with it. Women have us right where they want us because society dictates it. Think about it. You are most likely very attractive, you were to him when you first met. You are likely very attractive to the guy you pass in the grocery store, gas station, at work. They would likely do anything to meet you. You have to understand the biology here. It is complex biology but fits in with our ancestors and their behavior which was required for survival. I hope I have not offended you.


Your name is correct, you are definitely speaking for SOME men. I know many many men, in fact don't know any married men like you are describing, that have no problem having sex with the same woman for the rest of their life. Now if I hated my wife or was in a bad marriage or had no connection to my wife, then I might feel differently after a period of time. But two happily married people will generally have no issue being sexually faithful to eachother. But obviously you do have to work to keep things interesting.


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## speakingforsomemen (Dec 12, 2011)

again, as I thought, simply ignoring basic tenets of biology.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

COguy said:


> Your name is correct, you are definitely speaking for SOME men. I know many many men, in fact don't know any married men like you are describing, that have no problem having sex with the same woman for the rest of their life. Now if I hated my wife or was in a bad marriage or had no connection to my wife, then I might feel differently after a period of time. But two happily married people will generally have no issue being sexually faithful to eachother. But obviously you do have to work to keep things interesting.


I think SpeakingForSomeMen and Coguy are really alluding to - is what Athol covers in his book, Married Mens Sex Life Primer. In it he talks about men being polygamist minded (or in other words, capable of having multiple relationships with women and yet not diminishing his love for his main relationship) as opposed to women being hypergamist, or in other words, upgrading to more manly man when one comes along and thus can really only have one good relationship at a time (this is why we see women disconnect so quick when engaged in an EA or PA - they aren't able to maintain both - they end up concentrating on the potential mate that's doing something for them chemistry-wise.


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## Dadof3 (Mar 14, 2011)

TGTLTBTS: My advice? Its always tough with the kids in the mix. If you and H were childless, definitely leave. With the kids though, I think you need to negotiate your needs with your husband and come to an agreement. If he has to have it his way, or no way, I think you have a deal breaker there that gives you the ok to exit the marriage (do it the right way - no exit affairs!) and find yourself a man that you are compatible with. 

Your kids would be better off too.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

SFSM, not offended but don't think it is relevant to my issues. AFEH, I wouldn't necessarily say accessory but he would feel embarrassed and like a failure and we would be the first divorce in his immediate family and I know that bothers him too. He has asked more than once what our "press release" is going to be....everything is black & white to him...strictly business minded. 

He nor his family are very emotional people, kinda cold actually. Which is an issue for me as well, altho not a deal breaker.

COguy, I have read books already altho not the one you mentioned yet but will add it to the list I said I have not made any decisions yet as to whether to leave or stay but until I do I don't think I can put my heart into working on it to the level you are suggesting. I have tons of resentment for various reasons that I have got to resolve before I can move forward I think and I am hoping the MC along with my IC can help me.

We were NEVER a good fit sexually.....and emotionally either I guess as I look back. My biggest ? I guess is if it was never really intimate or sexual what is there to work on regaining??? We married for the wrong reasons I think and just kept forging ahead on the path we were "supposed" to be on. And once we had issues with having children that became so self consuming that we were tunnel visioned with the desire to be parents. Then when we had the kids, which we DO NOT blame for any of the issues we are having seeing they were there long before the kids entered the picture, we were too busy and it was easy to rugsweep and ignore.

I think now that the kids are getting more self reliant and in school fulltime and I am back to working full time I have had more time to see and realize what I have been missing in my life and now it is all to the forefront of my mind and I am consumed in the unhappiness it has awakened.

I truly feel my husband could remain married and sexless indefinately......I know I can not! I wish I could

This is actually the second time we have went to therapy for the sex issues, first time was early in the marriage before kids. Didn't go for long and nothing was resolved....we both just made bad decisions by continuing and ignoring and on top of all of that bringing 3 amazing children into the mess we were living. I DO NOT regret my kids, no way in hell, they are my life and will thank God everyday for what a miracle they are. But it wasn't fair of us to do it. OMG....I need medication I think!! A serious off button for the brain would be wonderful.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

One more time:

I DO NOT UNDERSTAND A MAN THAT WIL NOT TAKE SEX EVERY DAY IF IT IS OFFERRED!!

There. I feel better.

What do you do? You sit your husband down and tel him he has 3 choices.

1 - Give you sex twice a week.
2 - Allow you to put on a party dress and go out trolling for strange a couple of times a month.
3 - Divorce you.

You only live once, and although 40 is not old, you've already lost 15 years of sex you're not getting back. 

Just be careful what you wish for. I sat my wife down after a 3 year drought and she agreed to sex whenever I want it. Guess what? After a few months of her NEVER initiating and just closing her eyes waiting for me to finish, I realezed that internet porn was a better alternative. I can get my wife to open her legs for me, but I can do that with a blowup doll also. Only the blowup doll doesn't make it obvious "she" hates it.

In other words, ths is going to be hard for you. You may just need to walk away.


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## jayde (Jun 17, 2011)

COguy said:


> But obviously you do have to work to keep things interesting.


This should not be a footnote - this is a main issue of this topic. 

Back to this thread, it wasn't mentioned here (which is good) . . . but overall in society, a man in a sexless marriage can get a lot of sympathy. I don't think it's the same for a woman being unhappy in a sexless marriage. A woman walking away from a sexless marriage has a completely different connotation (I think) than it would be for a man. 

This is not right and it's sad that this notion exists.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

You changed the rules.... 75 X's in 15 years is 5X's/yr..... Guess what????? You never had a sex life.... And now you expect him to change when you knew what you were marrying. 

If this was a male, we'd all be screaming at his stupidity..... 

So very simple, either he is gay or has deep seated issues. It will not change.

If he is so worried about the marriage and the kids, then propose an open marriage, or divorce.....


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## Deejo (May 20, 2008)

There is an awful lot of 'cruft' flying around this thread.

I'll cut to the chase. It is extraordinarily unlikely that he is going to be able to move the intimacy marker far enough to meet your needs. There is a very long history, this simply appears to be who he is. Importantly, he doesn't value you enough to want to change it.

Kids are resilient, and you don't need to be under the same roof to remain good parents.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

speakingforsomemen said:


> If I may add, you wanted input from men. I can tell you, we, men, some men, let me qualify, get bored with one woman. I don't see a lot of discussion here, I am new to this Board, but inherently men are wanderers. Now many are probably gonna jump on me about that, but it is a fact. I for one am tired of having unfulfiilled needs but can't act on anything because society has set down very unnatural rules for me. We make choices in our 20s or so, we are then committed to that choice. I bet if I polled the men on this board, the honest men, as many as 60-70 % would say they are bored with their sex life. Men need variety but society says no. No you can't do that. No one is smart enough to be an adult and admit that some men simply have wandering genes, they have to have variety. Now, let me say, it does not necessarily mean they cannot love their wife. Of course they can, but, the act of sex, which certainly is an act of love, is viewed differently by many men. Now, I am sure I just got into trouble here. I wish, society would rewrite the rules. Marriage is really untenable for many men, but they cannot admit it or are not smart enough to deal with it. Women have us right where they want us because society dictates it. Think about it. You are most likely very attractive, you were to him when you first met. You are likely very attractive to the guy you pass in the grocery store, gas station, at work. They would likely do anything to meet you. You have to understand the biology here. It is complex biology but fits in with our ancestors and their behavior which was required for survival. I hope I have not offended you.


Just my opinion, the whole “biological” aspect may determine a mans need/desire for sex; however his tool does not know the difference in where he places it.

If TGTLTBTS husband is sexually unavailable, there is an underlying reason for it, pretty unlikely that the reason is variety??


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

MrK, just so it is fair to my H....I do not offer sex! Years ago I realized where this was headed and that he was fine with it which created alot of my resentments and I gave up, hence the rug sweeping and ignoring on both of our parts! I am no longer attracted to him sexually at this point in our relationship. I am not putting the blame on my H, I fully accept my 50% of the successes or failures we are currently experiencing.

Dadof3, thanks for the input. But I am so confused on what will make me happy and is best for everyone concerned that I don't even know what I would say I wanted from him! Sometimes unfortunately I just don't think he is capable of being the man I need in my life but still hoping I can turn the way I feel around. Our personalities are just so different and the things we enjoy are so different....I look into the future and can't imagine what we would even have to hold us together once the kids are in college or on their own??


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

RDJ, thank you and I agree with you. I read another thread earlier about anxiety issues with sex and I could relate that to my H. He overthinks "everything" and worries about what kind of job he does at anything he does! 

Which is why I emphasized he needs to be seeing a IC to help himself regardless of whether he thinks it will help "US".....I truly don't want to leave him and have him without anyone the rest of his life because he has the same issues that created where we are at. I feel responsible for alot of his self esteem issues! More guilt!!

I treat him good, I mean I am a good mother and keep a nice home and work to contribute to our financial well being. I try and be as nice as I can to him and take care of his personal needs and take care of our home and whatnot if that makes sense. A long time ago I am sure I said mean hurtful things when the initial sex issues arose and I think they may have scarred him and I feel horrible for that. We both said mean things but that was long ago when we still cared enough to fight!

I keep remembering a line from the movie Life as we know it where the two were arguing and her current boyfriend said afterwards....if my ex and I fought like that we would still be married! 

My life in Limbo sucks. Comeon' someone has to have the magic answer......spit it out! Please!!!


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

People typically come together because they are so very different. Not just sexually attracted to one another but emotionally, psychologically and mentally. The reason is for bonding, making a home and rearing children. The sum of the parts of the two opposite people make a whole person.

But as we reach middle age, which is what you are doing, we begin to examine our history and to envision what our future is likely to be based on our past. That is we project our past into our future, to see what our future looks like if nothing changes. Plus as a woman your sex drive may very well be on the increase after your menopause.

At your time of life it is usually your sex life which continues to bond you even though you are two very different people. But you don’t have that sex life as a bond between and so you are looking at and examining your differences a little earlier than most. It typically happens a few years after the last child has left home.

In the UK divorce in the 50 something’s is consistently on the increase because of the reasons you are expressing. You do have an additional driver and that is a total lack of any form of a sex life. What I will say is that as far as we know we only live once. Put yourself as an 85 year old woman sitting in your sitting room and reflecting on your life. And use the wisdom of the 85 year old woman to guide you in the very decisions you feel the need to make.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Then even if I make the decision that I feel I would be better off alone.....feeling pain is better than feeling nothing at all right........I have the issues of whether I can support myself and my kids alone, ever being able to find someone to share the rest of my life with that accepts my babies and treats them well enough???

Those are scary things to consider plus the fact that we still have to go to his family and tell them we are separating....which will be a real treat on my end!! Wow do I dread that!! Have played out all sorts of scenarios out in my mind about that convo.

I realize I could do alot worse in life with a man! He is a good man and the best father ever!! What is wrong with me???? Why can't I just love & want him???? UGH.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> My life in Limbo sucks. Comeon' someone has to have the magic answer......spit it out! Please!!!


There is no magic pill and there is no right or easy solution. You committed your entire life to one person, raised a family with that person. No matter what road you take it will be difficult.

If you choose to remain married, your journey will be long and difficult. If you choose to divorce, your journey will be long and difficult.

The only thing you can not change is your husband's desire to meet your needs. If you do a good job of clearly stating your needs, and he elects not to meet them, the choice to end it is his.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

My 7 year marriage ended with the last couple years being close to sexless (like 3 or 4 times a year). She was miserable. She seems to believe that I was fine with the status quo - I wasn't but couldn't overcome the gap. I don't know if was loss of attraction (or even whom for whom) or resentment, or stress, or psychological. Either way she left assuming I was content with no sexual outlet, except I had an back-up outlet (self-pleasure, and on occasion porn, though I mostly cut this out since a few years before was privately obsessed with it, she seems to think me cutting back was the cause of the trouble with sex life, but I don't think so). It was very unsatisfying, and both of us became too stubborn to ever initiate with each other - I didn't realize back then it would cost me my marriage.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Lon I too believe that we both became too stubborn to ever initiate with one another....I know I did. i built resentment because he wasn't attracted enough to me to initiate or at least that is how I interpreted it. I knew it would cost us our marriage but I figured if he cared enough to make the effort he would eventually but regrettably he didn't. 

I brought it up from time to time to make sure he was aware that the issue had not magically resolved itself but still nothing. I just wish he would man-up and become the self-confident man I was initially attracted to! 

But we allowed ourselves to drift apart and now we are paying the price! And unfortunately it won't just be us that has to pay now.


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> ...i built resentment because he wasn't attracted enough to me to initiate or at least that is how I interpreted it. I knew it would cost us our marriage but I figured if he cared enough to make the effort he would eventually but regrettably he didn't.


It is amazing, and terrible, how we can hold onto resentment for the one we love most, isn't it? It's never too late though, atleast not until one of you or the other makes up their mind that it is. Before giving up hope entirely and ending the marriage, he needs a shakeup. This IS a dealbreaker and so its probably time to put the cards on the table - this is the kind of discussion that is best done with the guidance of a good counselor...

There is an loss of attraction and respect, most couples divorce because they believe they can never get that attraction back, I personally believe it is always possible, but then again I'm stubborn that way (the same stubborness that contributes to these kind of issues in the first place is the same kind that can hold onto hope to restore a committed relationship back to health).


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Lon said:


> I personally believe it is always possible, but then again I'm stubborn that way (the same stubborness that contributes to these kind of issues in the first place is the same kind that can hold onto hope to restore a committed relationship back to health).


Well said Lon,

The ability to truley *FORGIVE* and *FORGET* sure doesnt hurt!


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

RDJ said:


> Well said Lon,
> 
> The ability to truley *FORGIVE* and *FORGET* sure doesnt hurt!


haha, I am very forgiving, probably because I am so forgetful (not by choice) I am going to make one difficult senior citizen someday.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Lon, I am hoping that a seperation will shake us both up. Regardless of whether we discover we do still want to make our marriage work or if we discover it is indeed time to move on, hopefully the decision will be clear and we can both stop living in the hell that is Limbo! Thanks to all of you that responded, I appreciate it and will reread over and over and take it all to heart. This forum is a god send to us all


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

speakingforsomemen said:


> again, as I thought, simply ignoring basic tenets of biology.


Now that women in the USA have equal rights as men, women cheat in their marriage as often as men do. Sort of tells me that there is really little difference in the desire to stray or have strange.

Plus, all those men who cheat because they are 'programmed' to wander... see I wonder who it is that they are having sex with??? Maybe women who are also enjoying wandering?


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

FTR, I am gradually becoming more and more against separation in the hopes of saving a marriage. I know many on here think it can be valuable, and that sometimes breathing room is necessary, I think if the stress of living together becomes too much to bear breathing space is good, but a separation is about so much more than just breathing space. To me it is a sign of unwillingness to address the real issues. A well timed and serious threat of divorce should be enough to shake it up, and if it doesn't then separation is the first step of decoupling. I expect there is a chance some commenter may rebut my idea, I wonder how it is really working out for them though.


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

I think that if you separate with the intent on saving your marriage, you need to have a solid gameplan for how that will work BEFORE you leave. Most separations end in divorce. It's really hard to work on your problems when you're both not there.

That means you need a plan for how you will go to counseling, spend time together, work on issues, etc.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

TGTLTBTS said:


> MrK, just so it is fair to my H....I do not offer sex! Years ago I realized where this was headed and that he was fine with it which created alot of my resentments and I gave up, hence the rug sweeping and ignoring on both of our parts! I am no longer attracted to him sexually at this point in our relationship. I am not putting the blame on my H, I fully accept my 50% of the successes or failures we are currently experiencing.


I understand that. It may have gotten mixed up in the gender reversal. My point was, my wife and I "fixed" our lack of sex problem with her becoming a warm blow-up-doll. You getting him to be a warm sex toy will end up the same way. You'll find it's just a lot easier to work with plastic that isn't rejecting you WHILE you are trying to be intimate with it. 

If the intimacy and enjoyment isn't there in your relationship after all this time, it NEVER WILL BE. That's why the rest of my post encouraged you to find it elsewhere while you can. Don't be me in 10 years.


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## RDJ (Jun 8, 2011)

Just for the record, I too believe that a seperation should be the last resort, hard to work out issues when not togather. But if you do have to go there, it should be with a defined set of rules and expectations.

The other comment I would like to make is that I often read here things like MrK's comment (nothing personal MrK, I understand that we all speak from our own perspective/experiences, I certainly respect yours) "NEVER WILL BE"?

I heard this from many during my years of trouble, even from a few MC's. He!!, I even believed it myself! Believe me, my marriage got as bad as a marriage can get!

We were wrong, my wife and I overcame it, over the last several years, I have spoken to many that also overcame it, it's hard to do, it sucks, but with dedication from both, it can be done.

No, not always, some marriages can't be saved, I just felt that I could offer another view than "NEVER". Again, with all due respect!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

MrK said:


> I understand that. It may have gotten mixed up in the gender reversal. My point was, my wife and I "fixed" our lack of sex problem with her becoming a warm blow-up-doll. You getting him to be a warm sex toy will end up the same way. You'll find it's just a lot easier to work with plastic that isn't rejecting you WHILE you are trying to be intimate with it.
> 
> If the intimacy and enjoyment isn't there in your relationship after all this time, it NEVER WILL BE. That's why the rest of my post encouraged you to find it elsewhere while you can. Don't be me in 10 years.


Completely agree with RDJ. ANY marriage problem can be overcome. It is not easy, and it takes BOTH partners to be committed. The key is that both partners be willing to compromise and work towards their partners needs. It can't happen if only one person is committed.

There's plenty of marriages that have overcome worse and completely turned around.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

TGTLTBTS...I can relate to how you feel. My wife has NEVER been interested in sex, intimacy, affection, PDF's, even holding hands ... I remember 19 or so years ago when we first me, she asked me why I wanted to hold her hand so much. All these years later, she hasn't changed. I waited over a year for her and at 25 years old, she was still a virgin. WHAT DID I EXPECT?

What changed in the past year is that I must have hit my mid-life crises and I started to get in better shape. I love the attention that I receive from other women. IT"S AWESOME! My wife never notices anything. Actually I think she has always been a closet Lesbian.

So now, I talk about other women a lot, things they tell me, and when they flirt a little... Now , she is more willing for sex. Still, she is having sex because she may not want to lose me. 

I have started to talk about an *open relationship* to "give her a break" and jokingly, she agreed. At the same time very recently I refused sex with her. She was more aggressive than ever before.

I can't expect my wife to become sexual after all these years. It may never happen. Knowing my luck, if I would leave my wife and daughter for another women and the new woman may want sex 2or3 times a day everyday.

I really like the idea of an open relationship. I would really like the feeling to be desired by other women. I am getting that now. I just haven't taken it to the next level.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

I think my biggest hurdle to overcome is the resentment and disconnection I have created by letting it go for so long. If it weren't for my children I am certain I would leave the relationship. I have a hard time wanting to work so hard for something that is going to take so much time to heal.....I know that sounds horrible but it is the truth! I have given him almost 16 years and just don't know if I am willing to spend another one or two on the "chance" that he can change "who" he is. And is it really fair for me to want him to change if he is not really capable of being what I need?? I guess me and IC need to work harder on those issues in the coming weeks.

Thanks again for all the insight everyone!


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## COguy (Dec 1, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> I think my biggest hurdle to overcome is the resentment and disconnection I have created by letting it go for so long. If it weren't for my children I am certain I would leave the relationship. I have a hard time wanting to work so hard for something that is going to take so much time to heal.....I know that sounds horrible but it is the truth! I have given him almost 16 years and just don't know if I am willing to spend another one or two on the "chance" that he can change "who" he is. And is it really fair for me to want him to change if he is not really capable of being what I need?? I guess me and IC need to work harder on those issues in the coming weeks.
> 
> Thanks again for all the insight everyone!


Anyone can change, but they have to WANT to first. I'm a big proponent of writing out your specific needs, and then giving yourself a timeline for spotting improvement. If you explicitly let him know what you need to stick around, and he doesn't meet the need, then at least you know what to expect if you don't leave.

It's not fair to expect people to change, but it is fair to expect a spouse to meet your needs if they are really important to you.

Also, the feelings of not wanting to try any more are totally normal. The roller coaster is one of the hardest things about dealing with marriage issues. That's why it's good to come up with a solid gameplan that you can look to when your emotions are swinging.


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## MrK (Sep 2, 2010)

TGTLTBTS said:


> I have given him almost 16 years and just don't know if I am willing to spend another one or two on the "chance" that he can change "who" he is.


16 years? He's not going to change. How are you going to make him horny after all of that time? You won't. 

I came onto these forums SWEARING that a man that didn't want sex from his wife was gay. All of the threads I've read changed my position on that, but I don't know. I'm kind of going back. Either you're a horny male or you're not. I don't know how you change that. And either the female parts got you off or the male. But nothing? I just don't feel it's possible for a male.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

He tells me that this is not the way he intended for his story to be written and that he does want to have a sex life but that it has been so long that he doesn't know what or how to go about it. I know he is intimidated by me, by my personality in general but I don't know what to do about that either.....I am who I am and have always been me.

He just thinks if we could jump in bed and have sex it would all be ok but what he fails to grasp is that those feelings are no longer there for me! I have no desire at this point to make love to him, it actually almost makes me physically ill to think about the act of it

So much water has gone under this bridge over the years, it can't just be forgotten and forgave! He says he just kept hoping that one day we would wake up and everything would be ok??? I guess what he means by that is he hoped I would start initiating everything again and settle for mediocre sex with no passion or emotion to it?? 

That is the only excuse he comes up with, other than he supposes he was stubborn also, which I know I am guilty of as well. He says he feels embarrassed and ashamed that he let things go the way he did as well but what does that do to help the situation?

It does help to vent and talk about my situation on this forum even if I can't find the answers I am looking for. I have found different ideas as well as ways of looking at things that I may have not seen before.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

There comes a point where you get so disconnected that you're not even attracted anymore. You need the same thing I need (and a lot of others)....to somehow get that one need fulfilled so you can stay in an otherwise good situation. But that's taboo, right? Or is it?

I told me wife I could live with just about anything EXCEPT lack of sex. And that it is a deal breaker. And NON-negotiable. But like I said, as it is now, I'm not even interested in sex with her even if she offered. She's a complete stranger to me in that regard because it's been so long.


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## BeachGuy (Jul 6, 2011)

Btw, have you read that book? TGTLTBTS? I have it.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Another insight that may help you give me advice is that I am a very self confident, strong willed woman and I always have been. Very athletic and outgoing, competitive. He was in the beginning which is what initially attracted me to him but when I bring that up he says....well I drank alot then??? 

My IC says at my last session that she believed there was still a chance at R because I had said that I was still attracted to him. I told he NO, what I said is that I can acknowledge that he is a very good looking man (I'm not blind) but that I have no attraction for him because all I see when I look at him is weakness.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

BeachGuy, I have read the book...hence my name on the board! LOL. I have also read Deal Breakers by Dr. Marshal. Both books lead me to believe it is time to move on but I can't make that decision without seeing if I miss him during our separation which is planned for after the new year.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> MrK, just so it is fair to my H....I do not offer sex! Years ago I realized where this was headed and that he was fine with it which created alot of my resentments and I gave up, hence the rug sweeping and ignoring on both of our parts! I am no longer attracted to him sexually at this point in our relationship. I am not putting the blame on my H, I fully accept my 50% of the successes or failures we are currently experiencing.
> 
> Dadof3, thanks for the input. But I am so confused on what will make me happy and is best for everyone concerned that I don't even know what I would say I wanted from him! Sometimes unfortunately I just don't think he is capable of being the man I need in my life but still hoping I can turn the way I feel around. Our personalities are just so different and the things we enjoy are so different....I look into the future and can't imagine what we would even have to hold us together once the kids are in college or on their own??


Has he actually said he is "fine" with not having sex? You stopped initiating. Not everyone has the courage or skills to say "what's up" being that communication thing. It can be a self esteem thing on both parts. Take the rejection personally. 

All I'm saying is... call a truce. Whether or not he follows through, if you need affection, touching, hugging, being close, then do it. Start there. The resentment has to give. On both sides.


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## Trickster (Nov 19, 2011)

deejov said:


> Has he actually said he is "fine" with not having sex? You stopped initiating. Not everyone has the courage or skills to say "what's up" being that communication thing. It can be a self esteem thing on both parts. Take the rejection personally.
> 
> All I'm saying is... call a truce. Whether or not he follows through, if you need affection, touching, hugging, being close, then do it. Start there. The resentment has to give. On both sides.


I have been going through something similar to the OP. I have given my wife so many hints that things are not right. I even started drinking like I did when I was in my twenties. The I told her I had a drinking problem and started going to A.A.... Mostly to get away from he though.

She never says... What gives? She pretends that all is fine. Maybe she has no courage to ask whats the problems?

I think what the OP stated is that she doesn't want his touch anymore. She doesn't want his hugs. For me it's the same It's like touch me...but don't touch me it's fake awkward weird. It's not in my wife to do that and now, like the OP, I don't want her to. Now my wife wants sex and as a man, I am so horny I take it when it is offered. We haven't said I love you in way over a year now.


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## deejov (Sep 24, 2011)

That does make sense, things get so far gone. 
Because of the resentment.

It's a common human trait. Hide your head in the sand until forced to do something about it. Lots of threads about this. We talked and talked, or gave lots of hints. Your spouse did not read your mind and your problems were not resolved.

I also understand the fake awkward weird. Been there, really recently.

The resentment will not go away until you learn how to talk about this stuff. In a way that your spouse understands. Or until you walk away, then it's no longer a problem.

I'm sorry to make this so simple, when it's not.
But I think, in most cases, there is either a "light bulb" moment when you finally figure out how to communicate your needs and work on it, or you turn off the light and leave. Without learning anything.

Just saying that even if your relationship is done, there might be a lesson in this. How to communicate your needs, and how to LET GO of resentment.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> I know he is intimidated by me, by my personality in general but I don't know what to do about that either.....I am who I am and have always been me.


Since its in the men's clubhouse, thought I'd put in my own input. Finally, I think you have presented the root cause. Even though it is no fault of your own, many guys do not have the mettle to be comfortable in a sexual relationship where there is an intensity added to the time together through feeling intimidated. A long time ago, I remember reading an article from a woman who talked about this very same issue in her marriage. She listed 'a feeling that their time together is safe, trusting, where he feels admired as a man" as her husband's number one requirement for a strong sex life. Also said that if they 'just did it', he would be more confident and want sex more often. Men in this situation aren't just fragile egos. I think they've allowed the dynamics of the relationship to follow them to the sexual relationship, which doesn't lend itself to the male mindset that guys bring to sex if he's intimidated by the woman. One way or another, he has to feel a degree of sexual confidence if it is to become something frequent.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Halien, I agree with you....but the funny thing is his mother is even more "intimidating" than I am....only difference is she plays the poor me card to people who really don't know her. But she is controlling and blunt so I don't know if maybe he had these issues before, sometimes tho I think he was attracted to that in the beginning maybe because of his mother.  

On another note, I went to the 5 languages of love quiz just for curiosity sake! WOW.....I started on the For Wives quiz and finally gave up after about 10 questions! How do you answer a question when neither of the options offered relates to your relationship AT ALL!!!!! I couldn't even answer them because there was no "Neither" option available. How freakin sad!

I finally went back and did the Single option just so I could see what my Love Language really was! It would have been funny if it werent so damn SAD.

I look at myself in the mirror and ask how the hell I let myself end up where I am at??? And then I look again and go "oh yeah, you did it to yourself!!!" I take more than half the blame..... way more!


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

TGTLTBTS said:


> Halien, I agree with you....but the funny thing is his mother is even more "intimidating" than I am....only difference is she plays the poor me card to people who really don't know her. But she is controlling and blunt so I don't know if maybe he had these issues before, sometimes tho I think he was attracted to that in the beginning maybe because of his mother.
> 
> On another note, I went to the 5 languages of love quiz just for curiosity sake! WOW.....I started on the For Wives quiz and finally gave up after about 10 questions! How do you answer a question when neither of the options offered relates to your relationship AT ALL!!!!! I couldn't even answer them because there was no "Neither" option available. How freakin sad!
> 
> ...


I don't think its an issue of blame. You did nothing wrong, in my opinion. Its all in how he chooses to interpret what could otherwise be open and practical discussions. Maybe the two of you talk about the sex issues, and at other times, other problems come up, which are discussed. He can begin to interpret these with additional, personal connotations, feeling like they are judgements. At the root of it is probably a belief that you are a very good person, and very often have the strength to forgive, move on, and things that he genuinely admires. In himself, he sees his flaws and shortcomings. This is all hypothetical, but I've worked through this with my brother, and a friend in the past. I really think that an objective decision to offer affirming comments, or reminders of the ways that you admire him, can help to point him back to that inner confidence that men need for a healthy sex desire. I know its more complicated than that, but if he responds to this type of approach, it may help to encourage both of you.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for the insight Halien, I do think he likes me and I like him......I just don't believe that either one of us are "in love" with the other. But we both love our children with everything we have within us to give!

Anyway, I am mentally exhausted and need to go to bed. Goodnight and I appreciate the time you take to respond.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

There are ways to restart a sex life... even after years if that is what a couple wants. 

I recall reading about one some time ago in a book on by a sex therapists for couple who have not had a sex life for a while.. even years.

The idea is to start having sessions where on partner gives the other a very sexy massage/rubdown for about 20 minutes. The rule is that there cannot be any sex. Just massage, play, nibble, kiss, etc but do not touch the genitals. And no orgasms or actual sex.

Then the next night the partners switch and the other one gives the massage.

The couple is instructed to do this for 2 weeks, switching places each night.. with neither having an orgasm.

After two weeks of this, sex and orgasms are allowed. Apparently by the end of two weeks there are two very horny people who cannot get through another session of sexy massage without it going to sex.

There is a lot of material out there about sex therapy. You can also go to a sex therapist.


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## TGTLTBTS (Sep 16, 2011)

Elegirl, Thanks for the input but I think my issues after all these years is the emotional disconnect that needs to be repaired if possible before any kind of physical contact can be initiated. How do you recover from 9 years?? 

Hopefully our IC/MC can help us with that aspect and then see where we are.


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## Romeo_Holden (Sep 17, 2011)

Just go to the bedroom and take it by force if he says no then simply say that you will walk out and find someone that will say yes...works everytime. When men feel sexually theatened they go wrath of khan on the va jay jay...if he still says no then he is either gay or getting it elsewhere...or has abnormally low testosterone levels.


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