# What to say to a cheating woman??



## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

I hope I am posting in the correct section because even though was not married to this woman, I had honestly found in her my soul mate and loved her as much if not more than my ex wife of 10+ years.

Well I searched the forums and surprisingly did not find a topic devoted to "what to say to a cheating woman". Not sure I want her back or not right now, but I would like to know what everyone feels would be the best things to say to a cheating woman who has cheated with her opposite sex guy best friend she claimed was never possible or never going to happen, they had been together in the past and it didn't work, so I trusted her and honestly felt this could not happen. I was introduced to him, he has a live in gf, and we all regularly hung out. This completely came out of nowhere, I did not see it coming at all. 

I trusted her until the point that I couldn't and I know for certain, not jumping to conclusions, I caught her with him spending the night at her house. I know every situation is different, but I do want to tell her and say to her the correct things to make her understand what she has done, how much she has totally betrayed my trust. There are kids involved and I have been a father to her kids who's father has nothing to do with them anymore. This makes it very hard as I loved the kids like my own and they loved me and I also have kids. I feel she not only betrayed me but she betrayed all the kids.

This is infidelity after leaving my ex wife for her cheating 2 years ago. This is a woman that I fell in love with after divorce. But it does not make it any different in my eyes or any easier to deal with. I want to say something to her, but I really am at a loss for words. There were no signs or problems leading up to this, it just came from nowhere out of the blue and hit hard.

I had been understanding with her with her and her opposite sex bf as I have a bf of opposite sex in which I do not in any way look at her any different than my bf/my sister. I would never have a romantic relationship with my os bf as I feel as she is my long lost sis, and that is totally honest. Hopefully there are several responses on this as it is really bothering me.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

You could put her and her lover on CheaterVille :: Don't Be the Last to Know and send them the link.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

What on earth are you thinking?

Sorry, but I saw so many red flags here i lost count : 

a. she has a history of cheating
b. she's hanging out with a former partner while supposedly committed to you
c. she claims this OS guy is her friend
d. there are children involved
e. this OS guy friend seems just fine with the arrangement
f. you are lost in infatuation land and still haven't figured out what love is yet

I lost count.. seriously.. 

Let me put this very straight : 

You two are trying to nail jello to the wall.

This crap you two are up to does not work. Keeping OS "friends" around while trying to keep a long term monogamous commitment does not work. Sorry. Particularly when she has a sexual history with this guy.

You need to smarten up. Again, sorry to be blunt, but you are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

This woman has GOT to MATURE UP. And YOU need to smarten up and stay CLEAR of her until she gets her priorities straight. If she wants you, then she needs to drop this other guy. If you want a long term monogamous commitment, you cannot have OS best friends in your life.

You need to smarten up. Playing house with someone does not make them you "soul mate." Sorry, but soul mates are not found, they are built. Love happens over a long span of time, by facing adversities, honestly and respectfully together as a couple. Soul mates are forged out of that shared experience.

You aren't anywhere near there yet. You have got to stop droning on about how much you love this person (I call this infatuation) and recognize she is not all that mature.

You cannot have a mature lasting commitment with an immature person who tries to live like a teenager in their thirties or forties. It does not work.

And this nonsense about having OS best friends? Sorry, but your SPOUSE is your best friend. You both need to smarten up.

You need to recognize she and you have a lot of growing up to do.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You haven't confronted her yet?

Do you live together, both her children and your children?

How old are they?

Since you are not married everything is simpler from a legal point of view. Why not post POSOM on Cheaterville and let your SO know about it through the grapevine.

Your post my read something like this:



> John Doe, posing as a platonic friend of a woman in a long term relationship, is a cheater. The women he engaged in secret sexual relationship is the mother of children who consider her SO the equivalent of a step father. The woman is also like a step mother to the SO's children from a previous marriage.
> 
> John Doe through his duplicity has now destroyed the family relationship which provided security to X number of children. He also betrayed his own SO.


You can illustrate the post with a photo of your SO and John Doe together. You can black out your SO's eyes so people cannot recognize her.

Are you friends with him on FB? You can send the Cheaterville link to a few of his FB friends. Call his GF after you make the post so that she can read it.

The pain you are suffering is not different from what a legally married person in your situation would feel.


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

What to say to her? Nothing. Better tell the kids why you won't be seeing them again. Not even married and cheating? When you have to share a mate, you might end up sharing STDs as well. I lost a friend to AIDS.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> I hope I am posting in the correct section because even though was not married to this woman, I had honestly found in her my soul mate and loved her as much if not more than my ex wife of 10+ years.
> 
> Well I searched the forums and surprisingly did not find a topic devoted to "what to say to a cheating woman". Not sure I want her back or not right now, but I would like to know what everyone feels would be the best things to say to a cheating woman who has cheated with her opposite sex guy best friend she claimed was never possible or never going to happen, they had been together in the past and it didn't work, so I trusted her and honestly felt this could not happen. I was introduced to him, he has a live in gf, and we all regularly hung out. This completely came out of nowhere, I did not see it coming at all.
> 
> ...


Sorry...but I do not see where she 'cheated'. Her friend may have stayed overnight at her house, but what EXACTLY happened? Did she confess to something happening? Did she confess to having sex with him, or are you simply uncomfortable with their relationship and are jumping to conclusions? 

Without more (incriminating) information, it would be unfair to classify her as having 'cheated'. 

Vega


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

Allen_A said:


> What on earth are you thinking?
> 
> Sorry, but I saw so many red flags here i lost count :
> 
> ...


First off here, wo wo wo Allen. Chill out.

Your red flags:
1. She does NOT have a history of cheating. She dated this guy several years ago and it did not work out. I never said they hung out by themselves, I said we all hung out together such as at dinner or having company over, etc. I was almost always there.

2. I honestly do have a best friend that I look at as my sister and we tried dating several years ago also and it worked out that we were better off being friends than lovers, and I am being honest about that. I would vomit at the thought of being in bed with her now. So I did understand that it is totally possible to have a good friend (I feel you are totally correct that your "best" friend should be your SO, I totally agree but that is learned over time) that is the opposite sex, and I firmly believe that because I am a living breathing example of having that. It is a very rare situation I know, but let me say that it really gives insight into what the opposite sex feels and thinks in certain situations, and trust me we are talking about this now. We in no way have sexual desires for each other. We talk about both our SO's all the time and give each other advice. I guess this is the main reason I am having a hard time with this.

3. We do not live together, we were together most of the time and are in contact all the time throughout the day but we both still have our own separate homes. We had discussed moving in together but just had not done it yet. I will never remarry, life choice, I will live with another woman, but never will I marry again.

4. I am in NO WAY infatuated with her. I love her and care for her but no way infatuated with her. We have disagreements, but we have never ever raised our voice to each other, I am very aware that is rare also, that is one of the things I loved so much about our relationship, we just understood each other so well, we knew what the other was thinking and feeling. We have always talked it out and been mature about our differences. She may have some growing up to do as she is a little younger, however I have been thru allot and I am very mature in myself and my relationships. This is the first woman my kids have met since my divorce 2 years ago. I am very careful and respectful to that. I did not introduce this woman to my kids until after 3 months of dating and we even simply talked for the first 30 days before even going out on our first date. So 4months after meeting her, my kids met her. I am sure that was being catious.

5. Let me explain something to you Allen, while you are on your rapage and being judgemental instead of having an open mind to the fact I asked for opinions and not to be ran down, I do know what love is partner. I still remember my first love when I was 16, still know that feeling, was married for over 10+ years, and have only told 3 women in my life I love them. So if all you have to say is negative and putting me down, please don't respond.

I cut contact with this woman a week ago. I have not called, emailed, messaged, texted, or anything. That right there should tell you that I have some maturity when it comes to relationships. This one was different from my past and I ask for some honest opinions, not to be flamed by you. Don't forget, I was not the one that made the mistake here, she was. I did everything in my power to make this relationship work, including respecting myself and my kids. 

You my friend are WAY OUT OF LINE!!!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

> I cut contact with this woman a week ago. I have not called, emailed, messaged, texted, or anything.


So you never confronted her?

What to see as the best possible outcome and the worst?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

You haven't contacted her n a week. Does that mean she hasn't talked to you about the situation? Does she know you know her ex spent the night with her?


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

OP,

From your post I'm assuming she knows you know since you state you caught them in bed.

Has she tried to contact you at all in the past week?

Regardless if she has or hasn't I don't think you should contact her at all.

She knows you know and she knows why you haven't called.

I understand that you feel you need some closure but trust me it's unlikely you'll get it by talking to her.
More likely it will just fuel your pain.

Personally I'd never speak to her again, just ignore her attempts for communication and move on one day at a time.

That's my advice.


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## Allen_A (Nov 18, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> First off here, wo wo wo Allen. Chill out.
> 
> Your red flags:
> 1. She does NOT have a history of cheating. She dated this guy several years ago and it did not work out. I never said they hung out by themselves, I said we all hung out together such as at dinner or having company over, etc. I was almost always there.
> ...


You are on your own guys. I am tagging out.

Too much work here.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

All you really need to say is one word...

"Goodbye."


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

I need to clarify, I did not catch them in bed. I went to drop something off at her house as I was going to work and his car was there at 12am. Her blinds were open and her and her kid was asleep on the couch. I confronted her with it when she woke the next day and she told me he had stopped by her house driving drunk and could not drive and she made him stay. My question was why could she not have called someone to come get him and take him home, that she had totally crossed the line. Why did he sleep in her bed instead of her and her daughter sleeping in her bed and him sleeping on the couch.

Then over a period of a week I seen his car there 3 or 4 times late at night and I put two and two together. None the less it is crossing the line.

We broke up, she basically broke up with me after confronting her and her telling me it was her home and she would have whatever friends over when she wanted. I told her she was crossing the line, that if she wanted to be with me that there would not be ANY men spend the night at her home (drunk or sober) and her response to me was F*** You and we have not talked since. 

She has not admitted to anything and would not discuss it at the time. I don't want to be a "stalker" or anything, but I deserve an answer and explanation. That's really all I want, that way I can put my mind at ease. However I don't think she is going to give me one as I sense she is feeling guilty. She told me several times that she would never cheat on me, that she had been done like that too many times and would never do me like that. But obviously she did. I have came to realize that when people openly claim they won't do something or they are not that kind of person, well that's exactly what they will do and that is exactly the type of person they are......

So that's where I am at. I want to say something to her, but not sure really what to say. I was only asking for opinions and advice don't want to be flamed. Thank you in advance.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

Allen_A said:


> You are on your own guys. I am tagging out.
> 
> Too much work here.


Thank you Allen. But you jumped to conclusions and did not ask me to clarify and then you flamed me. Not something I need right now. I was not trying to be hateful or rude in my response to you at any point. I also only said ONCE that I loved her and somehow you turned that into "infatuation". I think maybe you have had a bad day, if so I am sorry. But don't take it out on me man. 

Hope your day gets better!


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## WhiteRaven (Feb 24, 2014)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> her response to me was F*** You and we have not talked since.
> 
> So that's where I am at. *I want to say something*, but not sure really what to say.


Silence is golden.


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## StayInIt (Jul 27, 2012)

Yuck. You say yuck, then you bail.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

You got some opinions, and didnt seem too happy about them, so I'm curious if you actually want opinions, or if you just want us to say what you want to hear? If its the latter, just write out a paragraph for yourself and feel free to put my name on the by-line. If you really do care to hear an opinion, I think I'd need to have some questions answered first.

Was she aware of your stance on re-marrying? What was her position on the topic? 

How long have you been in a relationship with her, and did you formally discuss monogamy?

Were you two sexually active? If yes, how often and did you ever spend the night at her house?

What did the conversations about friends of the opposite sex actually sound like? How in depth did you two get in discussing these issues?

Thats a good enough start and should allow me to give you my opinion on the situation.


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## I got this (Feb 25, 2013)

One word> Goodbye!


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

StayInIt said:


> Yuck. You say yuck, then you bail.


Yea it is "Yuck", it just makes me so sick!!!! I know we honestly had something, I don't doubt that at all. But I also know once you lose trust, it's hard to gain it back and it's just as hard to make a relationship work.


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## StayInIt (Jul 27, 2012)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> Yea it is "Yuck", it just makes me so sick!!!! I know we honestly had something, I don't doubt that at all. But I also know once you lose trust, it's hard to gain it back and it's just as hard to make a relationship work.


So sorry, dude.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

Paladin said:


> You got some opinions, and didnt seem too happy about them, so I'm curious if you actually want opinions, or if you just want us to say what you want to hear? If its the latter, just write out a paragraph for yourself and feel free to put my name on the by-line. If you really do care to hear an opinion, I think I'd need to have some questions answered first.
> 
> Was she aware of your stance on re-marrying? What was her position on the topic?
> 
> ...



Yes I do want opinions, Allen "jumped" to some conclusions which I pointed out and also flamed me. You don't tell someone they don't know what love is from one post for one, and then I never said anything about a couple other points he made that were not accurate. I never said one thing about his advice, it was the accusations that hit me wrong I guess.

To answer you:

1. We had both agreed on not wanting to be married again in life.
2. Yes we did discuss monogamy and we were together over a year.
3. Yes I spend the night at her house 40% of the time and she 60% of the time. The difference was work and kid schedules made it a little easier to stay at my house sometimes. Yes sexually active, 3 to 4 times per week, long sessions each time. She had never even had multiple orgasms until we started dating (sorry if graphic, but just saying sex life was good and active).
4. We openly talked about that we both had best friends that were of the opposite sex, that we had both dated them years ago, and that it did not work out and we both looked at them as brothers and sisters. I knew this man, hung out with him, spent time with him, etc. I think he must have had a thing my my SO and was scared he would lose her. I don't really feel she had a "thing" for him but when approached with being with him or losing him forever, let's face it he has known her allot longer than I have. I dunno, but maybe she did but I really never got that feeling. You know what I am saying, we all have gut feelings and especially with people you love and care about.

Thank You!


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

her reaction to you is one of anger based on guilt...clearly, that said you did the right thing, though it will be hard on the kids they will get over it....i think it is time to move on...because when you think about it what can she say that will make you come back...in the back of your mind you will always wonder, and short of you moving in or her moving in with you, you will never really know who is sleeping at her house unless your there watching it....here is the question to you...have you told the GF of the guy?

don't live with doubt it doesn't work...trust me


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## GROUNDPOUNDER (Mar 8, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> Yes sexually active, 3 to 4 times per week, long sessions each time. *She had never even had multiple orgasms until we started dating (sorry if graphic, but just saying sex life was good and active).*


Well she's been having multiple orgasms lately, because she's had multiple sex partners.

You caught her, she denied it and hasn't called you since. Gee, I wonder whom she has been calling?...

You seem like you want one great final scene, where you put her in her place and leave her crying and begging for you to come back.

This ain't happenin'. She's gone. She's been gone since she started sleeping with her "freind" and she's not coming back.

If you wanted a final scene, why didn't you just knock on her door the night you saw the OM's car there(like 90% of us would have done)? That would have left a longer lasting impression on her than anything you're going to try to tell her now. If she'll even take your call that is..


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

GROUNDPOUNDER said:


> Well she's been having multiple orgasms lately, because she's had multiple sex partners.
> 
> You caught her, she denied it and hasn't called you since. Gee, I wonder whom she has been calling?...
> 
> ...


Oh I did knock on the door and left what I was bringing her on the doorstep and walked away. She texted immediately thanks. I also do not want a "final scene" I would just like an explanation, I think I do deserve that. I guess I am a da for wanting that GroundPounder?

I was ask by another member about our sex life, I simply answered and gave a lil' info on that stating it was not in anyway bad, that department was all good. Was not a response for you in any way.

You know I have always had people respond appropriately and nicely on this forum until this thread. I didn't do anything wrong GroundPounder and Allen, not sure why you both have been smart***, it's totally uncalled for!!!! Grondpounder maybe you are mad because you can't give a woman multiple orgasms, I have no idea, but your response is out of line ANY way you look at it!!!! No wonder you are both on this forum, who could live with you???? Opinions are one thing, being totally out of line and being rude and smart is another!!!! Especially when it comes to a topic such as this and a forum such as this. I don't need anyone to hold my hand but I sure don't need a smart*** replying either!!!!


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

After you caught her, he was there three more times. Her actions does her talking, let your actions do yours.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

On a positive note tho, THANK YOU very much for the everyone of you who have posted their opinion and not made a mockery out of my situation. It is "Yuck" as one member posted, and it is a bad situation and I very much appreciate the advice and opinions that have been given and left out the "smart*** remarks" and "mockery".

I know I have done the right thing by leaving, that being said it doesn't mean it was easy nor does it mean I am going to give in and go running back to her. I respect myself enough that I will not forgive her, been thru too much and not going thru it again. I would just like to know if there is anything I could say or do to get an explanation. 

I am no "God's gift to woman" and not conceded in any way what so ever if I came off as such when responding about the sex question, however I do know how to make a woman happy in bed. It's something I took interest in years ago and wanted to do and it is a "learned" thing if a guy wants to take the time.

I mean most of you reading this has been to that point. I cared enough about this relationship that I need to know for closure and hopefully I don't make the same mistake twice. Once again thank you in advance!!!!


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## StayInIt (Jul 27, 2012)

If we are all honest, we have all lived through yuck parts of our lives.

The point is to integrate the lessons learned and get down the road.

All the best with this, DMNK


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

StayInIt said:


> If we are all honest, we have all lived through yuck parts of our lives.
> 
> The point is to integrate the lessons learned and get down the road.
> 
> All the best with this, DMNK



What does "DMNK" mean?


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> What does "DMNK" mean? People use so many abbreviations on this forum I can't keep up and it is not in the guidelines post of abbreviations. LOL


It's an abbreviation for your chosen name...

*D*riving*M*e*N*utz*K*ma


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

GusPolinski said:


> It's an abbreviation for your chosen name...
> 
> *D*riving*M*e*N*utz*K*ma


OMG!!!! LOL!!!! OK, time for bed.....


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> On a positive note tho, THANK YOU very much for the everyone of you who have posted their opinion and not made a mockery out of my situation. It is "Yuck" as one member posted, and it is a bad situation and I very much appreciate the advice and opinions that have been given and left out the "smart*** remarks" and "mockery".
> 
> I know I have done the right thing by leaving, that being said it doesn't mean it was easy nor does it mean I am going to give in and go running back to her. I respect myself enough that I will not forgive her, been thru too much and not going thru it again. I would just like to know if there is anything I could say or do to get an explanation.
> 
> ...


Fortunately, you are not married...you are dating. Things obviously weren't going good if she is boning her ex. Sorry, but what you thought was good, she thought was lacking. If I were in your boat, id be back at the drawing board. 180 (which means turn your back and walkaway). If she wants to talk to you and you give you an explanation...and you want to hear it, then let her. But in no way should you contact her. Write her off and go on your way. Use it as a growing experience and figure out a way to date women that understand that Oppo Sex BFFs are not ok and its disrespectful to you for them to be doing stuff like 1) going to dinner alone 2) texting/talking about personal details in your relationship 3) sleeping over 4) having sex..you know, that kind of stuff.

On the flip side, if you have no self esteem, you can text her, call her, go to her house and ask her if she can unwrap her legs from this guy to give you an explanation.


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## Paladin (Oct 15, 2011)

Is any of your stuff at her house? Have you ever had major conflict over any life issues? 

Without getting her side of it, and assuming you know without a shadow of a doubt that she was having sex with him, based on your answers above I would have to reluctantly agree with the consensus that she will not help you gain closure. In fact, if my hunch is correct, she will do everything in her power to make closure impossible for you in addition to hurting your feelings.

The reason I asked about the types of discussions you had about monogamy and friends of the opposite sex was to figure out how clear you were with your boundaries on the issue. Its easy to sometimes sit back and think "well any normal person would understand thats what I meant" when in fact, your message is beyond lost on the person it was directed at. You did say you told her how you felt about other men over there late at night and got a resounding F-U in response.

My advice is roughly in line with the rest, it is a waste of your time to try and explain/express anything to her because she feels entitled to acting the way she is, and has probably compartmentalized her life into neat little sections that do not overlap or interact in any way. Fck Buddy/boyfriend/kids all nice and separate till someone rocks the boat. 

If you insist on talking to her, please dont ask her anything. Just inform her of your plans to come get your things from her place and tell her you wish her the best and hope things work out for her and her affair partner. You can add that since you both knew the each others boundaries, you do not need to explain why you wont be sharing her bed with another man. 

Its possible that this man simply came over an cried his eyes out on her shoulder while guzzling booze, then made it seem as if sex was her only choice for that night. I would highly doubt that tho, and the sad truth is probably as simple as, they are **** buddies and dont care about anyone other than themselves.


edit:

The advice for you to examine why you are attracted to women that are bad for you is golden and you would be wise to explore it further. For now, assume if you feel a spark, you should run the other way.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

happi_g_more2 said:


> Fortunately, you are not married...you are dating. Things obviously weren't going good if she is boning her ex. Sorry, but what you thought was good, she thought was lacking. If I were in your boat, id be back at the drawing board. 180 (which means turn your back and walkaway). If she wants to talk to you and you give you an explanation...and you want to hear it, then let her. But in no way should you contact her. Write her off and go on your way. Use it as a growing experience and figure out a way to date women that understand that Oppo Sex BFFs are not ok and its disrespectful to you for them to be doing stuff like 1) going to dinner alone 2) texting/talking about personal details in your relationship 3) sleeping over 4) having sex..you know, that kind of stuff.
> 
> On the flip side, if you have no self esteem, you can text her, call her, go to her house and ask her if she can unwrap her legs from this guy to give you an explanation.


Well on your "flip side" remark, I have not contacted her in any way as I stated, don't plan on it nor have I went to her house, or have I ask her to unwrap her legs for me. Not sure why people are being so smart*** on this post when I simply ask for advice on what I could say to POSSIBLY get an explanation. I invested over a year, my heart, and my love and companionship. I am just like any normal human being, with normal reaction, would just like an explanation. 

Just FYI I didn't allow them to go out to dinner, have sex (I have been with her either at my home or hers for over the past year every day/night), or go out for dinner together, etc. This was totally out from left field. They did text but I trusted her and didn't read everyone of her text and it was not like they texted continuously while we were together. I mean honestly, we been in a relationship over a year, there was not many times we were apart other than work. She very well could have done all the things you say while at work, but that would have been about the only time I can figure other than the past couple weeks. 

I did just come out of a marriage with a woman that cheated on me, so I was obviously very "alert". I think this is something that has happened in the past couple of weeks. And let's face it, when you are close to someone, you can tell a change like that, and that change came about 2 weeks ago. I may have not known it with my ex wife, but I know the signs now if you know what I am saying.

With all that said, if you have advice worth giving for me WITHOUT the smart*** remarks to go along with it, then I would appreciate and welcome them. If you demand to throw in the smart remarks because possibly this subject hits a nerve with you the please don't respond because I didn't do it to you. but if you have helpful advice then I welcome it. 

I respectfully appreciate advice from peple who have experienced this or somethihg similar,.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

So, one good argument and that is the end of a 2 year relationship ?

How did the confrontation actually go?

What were the changes you noticed in the last 2 weeks?

Could this be an ego issue?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

Hello DMNK and sorry that you are here. I would like to confirm that I have understood this properly:


You have been together in an exclusive relationship for 2 years.
Both of you have been cheated on in the past.
Both of you have opposite sex bf's that were ex's.
She has been faithful to you over this time and sex was good. I would venture to say that you love each other.
You find his car there one night and she offers you a viable explanation that he was drunk and couldn't drive - how did he get there, where did he get drunk ? If at your gf's house, is this normal, has it happened before? Hard to form an opinion without the answers to these questions.
She tells you that it's her house and she can have anyone she wants over - is this normal behaviour from her, is she normally defiant and wanting to establish her free will and independence with you?
The 2 MAJOR RED FLAGS ARE: HE SLEPT IN HER BED WITH HER & YOU SAW HIS CAR THERE AT NIGHT A FEW TIMES AFTER THAT!!! How did she explain both of these points?

Please take the time to respond to these so that we can try and help. In the mean time, take care of yourself.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

You should absolutely not make any contact with her. The f' you – did she actually say that? – is a sign that she is not capable of taking responsibility for her infidelity.

Your relationship was important to her but not everything. She was enjoying being desired by two men.

It is a good thing that you caught her. If she had not been sleeping with him she would be trying to explain.

She is not the person you thought she was. Talking with her wil not make her a better person. Therefore, her apology or confession is of little value.

Do you have any possessions at her house? 

It will be weird for the kids. But then for hers they will just remember mommy had lots of different boyfriends. Luckily children cannot imagine their parents having sex.


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## jack.c (Sep 7, 2013)

Seems to me you are both with strong personalitys.... 
after your confrontation, she finished with with you saying "FXCK YOU"...
my advise would be simple: make her get the same message with facts! If she trys to call, text or whatever DONT BOTHER GIVING A RESPONCE! The last thing that she remember of you is what she told you.
If you can get out of town for at least a week without contact at all.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

Alright already so you're upset but just chill for a minute and think.

Dating is to marriage as a job interview is to permanent employment.

She by her actions and words does not appear to be a viable candidate for the position.

Consider interviewing other candidates for the position.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> Well on your "flip side" remark, I have not contacted her in any way as I stated, don't plan on it nor have I went to her house, or have I ask her to unwrap her legs for me. Not sure why people are being so smart*** on this post when I simply ask for advice on what I could say to POSSIBLY get an explanation. I invested over a year, my heart, and my love and companionship. I am just like any normal human being, with normal reaction, would just like an explanation.
> 
> Just FYI I didn't allow them to go out to dinner, have sex (I have been with her either at my home or hers for over the past year every day/night), or go out for dinner together, etc. This was totally out from left field. They did text but I trusted her and didn't read everyone of her text and it was not like they texted continuously while we were together. I mean honestly, we been in a relationship over a year, there was not many times we were apart other than work. She very well could have done all the things you say while at work, but that would have been about the only time I can figure other than the past couple weeks.
> 
> ...


Dude, what are you expecting to hear from people? some in depth psychoanalysis of a person we have never met and you have briefly described in 2 paragraphs. A reason as to why she would sleep with another guy? 
There is nothing smart ass about my comments. Im being dead serious. If you are self respecting man, then you realize that there is no explanation. She is either messed up in the head somehow, didn't view your relationship the same way you do, or a combination of both. So again, you 180 (search the site for 180 - basically turn your back) and walk away. If you really feel like you are "owed" an explanation, then go ask for one. But be prepared. The unwrapping her legs comment was meant to be both literal and metaphorical. You are going to have to pull her away from him to talk. Good luck


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

drivingmenutz

You did the right thing.

You walked away. Stick with your gut.

Sure you are sensitive to infidelity because you experienced it beforehand.

What is worse is your GF knew this and still cheated on you.

Guess what. Stay dark. Focus on you.

And if you have anything that belongs to her just drop it off when no one is home.

The woman is a loser. better one year lost that ten or more.

And the next time you see her guy BFF just step towards him. Watch him flinch.

Then smile and walk away.

Because she is obviously not worth it.

HM


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

This could all depend on context. When you showed up and she was on the couch with her daughter,why did you assume they had been having sex?

Did you accuse her of having sex with a good friend? An accusation like that, if not true would raise my hackles. What happened after that?


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

I truly appreciate all of your replies guys and gals. But I am so stressed right now that I should just call it a night and respond to each of you tomorrow. I am the type of person that if you took the time to give me advice then I feel the need to address each and every response/question you have asked. But today has been very stressful just in general, not to do with this totally, just all around stressful. Thank you ALL once again, I will answer the questions and concerns tomorrow. Hope all have a good night, and thank you in advance for caring and responding.

PS
I have read them all. I just need rest and some time. Thank You.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

My guess is she saw relationship with you in different light.

In post #24 You said you were near her house at that night, knocked but she didn't open the door. And you left while OM was in the house and you had the best moment to clarify the things or for closure. She texted you back immediately so she didnt sleep...but didn't let you in ....

I assume you didn't have the key? Did she have the keys to your house?


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> This could all depend on context. When you showed up and she was on the couch with her daughter,why did you assume they had been having sex?
> 
> Did you accuse her of having sex with a good friend? An accusation like that, if not true would raise my hackles. What happened after that?


I get where you are coming from Chap.

But in my mind if my GF who is aware of the demise of my first marriage due to infidelity behaved this way with a close male friend I would dump her.

Even if they did not sleep together I would dump her.

Even if if my mind was playing tricks on me due to the infidelity in my first marriage I would dump her.

Because her attitude sucks. Even if he is acting paranoid

I just hope he can put his fears to rest one day and find a loyal woman who will be considerate of his past pains, work with his known fears and love him and only him.

HM


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> First off here, wo wo wo Allen. Chill out.
> 
> Your red flags:
> 1. She does NOT have a history of cheating. She dated this guy several years ago and it did not work out. I never said they hung out by themselves, I said we all hung out together such as at dinner or having company over, etc. I was almost always there.
> ...


Actually he is not. Nature of a forum, you ask for opinions and you may get some you don't like. That is life, on here they are called 2x4's. 

Personally I don't think he's doing it to be disparaging..but sometimes the truth hurts.


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> I went to drop something off at her house as I was going to work and his car was there at 12am. Her blinds were open and her and her kid was asleep on the couch. I confronted her with it when she woke the next day and she told me he had stopped by her house driving drunk and could not drive and she made him stay. My question was why could she not have called someone to come get him and take him home, that she had totally crossed the line. Why did he sleep in her bed instead of her and her daughter sleeping in her bed and him sleeping on the couch.


 He slept in her bed because it would be far less suspicious to her child for her to be visiting her own bedroom for sex either in the middle of the night or in the early morning (she can say that she went to get something), then it would be for him to be visiting her in her bedroom if he had been the one sleeping on the couch. Also, by sleeping with her child on the couch, she would know when the child was deeply in sleep and thus when it would be safe to visit the other man in her bed.



drivingmenutzkma said:


> Oh I did knock on the door and left what I was bringing her on the doorstep and walked away. She texted immediately thanks.


 This confirms that she was awake, but did not want to let you in. He was on the inside sleeping in her bed, while you were left on the outside in the cold looking in.



drivingmenutzkma said:


> Then over a period of a week I seen his car there 3 or 4 times late at night and I put two and two together.


 If there was any doubt, this confirms that they were more than just friends.



drivingmenutzkma said:


> So I did understand that it is totally possible to have a good friend (I feel you are totally correct that your "best" friend should be your SO, I totally agree but that is learned over time) that is the opposite sex, and I firmly believe that because I am a living breathing example of having that.


 Funny because looking at your story, I see you as a living breathing example of the danger of opposite sex friends. You left your wife just 2 years ago because of cheating, and now your girlfriend has cheated on you. Has it not occurred to you that your relationship boundaries may need adjusting?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

OP,

You did the right thing by stopping contact with her after you caught her, particularly with her flippant remarks to you.

Now, I understand wanting to have some type of closure after this happened; but you should resist that temptation. Nothing good will come from it. If you're not considering getting back with her, just move on and don't respond to her any further.

The same advice holds even if you would consider being with her again. She's the one that should initiate contact, not you. If she cares enough about you, she will. If she doesn't, she won't. 

But if she does, and demonstrates that she's remorseful - you have a starting point. But I would think long and hard about that. You're not married and she's given you the gift of showing you who she is.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

By going NC on her she will be the person lacking closure. 

If all you have at her place is a razor, tooth brush and a couple of CD's, then you need not have any contact with her.


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## workindad (May 7, 2011)

I agree with several other posters. 

The only thing you need to say is goodbye maybe good riddance.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

There is the door....don't let it hit you where the god lord split you.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

Thank everyone that has took the time to respond, I really do appreciate it to the fullest extent.

To clarify when I said smart*** remarks, I was not talking about "things I didn't want to hear" or "not what I wanted to hear" I was talking about the "stabs" and the "punches" such as being accused of "playing house", "grow up" and a few other posts. I have been thru allot and learned allot in relationships over the years. I am not saying I know everything, because I don't, but I am not dumb either.

This relationship was with a woman that I found out later thru her friends and family she had been done wrong. She even told me at one point she did not know really how to handle a man treating her with respect. I don't think she ever lied to me that I caught her in a lie. Even the night I caught her OSF there, she was on the couch with her kid, she had no idea I was stopping by to drop anything off.

When I did ask her was they fck buddies or starting to get physical she told me a absolutely no, she never got mad or acted with a guilty conscious or "extensively defended herself" as most people do when they are caught in a lie. She actually acted as tho a truthful person would, that's what threw me for such a loop.

I did tell her that him spending the night was crossing the line with me. I told her I would never allow my OSF to spend the night at my house, drunk or sober, I would call somebody to come get her. Then in the past 2 weeks I have noticed his vehicle there 3 or 4 other times late at night. That is when I told her I would not tolerate that, but it was mostly thru text's. 

That is when she told me any of her friends, male or female, if they are intoxicated she would not let them drive, that they were welcome to stay at her house. That's how it led to it being her home and I didn't pay the bills. 

She is the type of person that put's everyone else before her, would give you her shirt off her back to help you and puts herself last. She is also the type that has a hard time expressing herself face to face, but can do it thru text. 

The feeling I had is hard to explain. It's just when you are close to someone and love them, you can "feel" a change in their demeanor. 

I honestly think her OSF got scared we were getting really close, that he was going to lose her, and he played that card and got her to react on it. I think he wants something more with her where she didn't really until he "put her on the spot" and he prolly told her it was either him or me and naturally I can't compete with that. He is a good person, but he had allot of problems also that I don't even want to go into detail about. Let's just say his life is not straight and he will never get it straight. She knows that without a doubt, had said it to me many times. I think he played the wild card and I got the shaft. Nobody can compete with your SO best friend, I think we all know that. After reflecting on it for a couple of days, I think I have gotten put in that spot....... Up until about 2 weeks ago I know there was nothing going on, can't explain to you how I do know, but I am telling you that I just know and I know for NUMEROUS reasons nothing was going on. I would stop by in the middle of the nights and I did have a key and would simply give her a kiss or something little just to let her know I was thinking of her (I could do that because of my job hours). And I did those things to to show her I did care and love her, not to "check up" on her. I never felt the need to do that until the past 2 weeks. But I can say that I never seen or heard anything that was odd or out of line in over a year. I feel that if something was going on I would have seen something, caught something, felt a change, something however little it may have been. I mean I am not blind and I don't turn and look the other way, I am not like that......

Hopefully even tho this is long post it clarify's why I am having a hard time with it. But I have decided that it's time to just move on, she obviously does not know how to accept someone that cares and loves her, it's like she expects the man to do her wrong. I can't compete with her best friend and I can only do so much to prove to her I would not hurt her no matter what other men has done to her in the past. I feel I have done all I can do........ I do feel I deserve an explanation but know I may never get it. But in another way I just want her to know she didn't have to be scared with me, that I truly loved her for her and for no other reason other than her being herself. I can't help but wonder did she do this to "get rid" of me so I wouldn't hurt her..... that maybe she was terrified that we had gotten so close that with her past I "could" hurt her more than anyone......


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## lovelygirl (Apr 15, 2012)

Would you take her back if she showed true remorse?


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

lovelygirl said:


> Would you take her back if she showed true remorse?


I honestly cannot answer that. I know how important trust is and in order for me to be able to trust her she would more than likely have to end her friendship with OSF. I don't think as long as he was in the picture or around, I would never have the trust for a lasting relationship...... and that folks is a hard thing to ask from anyone, whether it be their fault or not, to end their friendship with their BF......


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## harrybrown (May 22, 2013)

Hope you can keep up with the NC. 

Give yourself some time, but the best is to keep to NC and move on. Hopefully in time, the pain will be less and you may find someone new. 

Living well would be the best thing you could do and to move into a new relationship after you heal from this one.

Good luck on the next one. Hope you can stay strong with the NC.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

harrybrown said:


> Hope you can keep up with the NC.
> 
> Give yourself some time, but the best is to keep to NC and move on. Hopefully in time, the pain will be less and you may find someone new.
> 
> ...


Thank You Harry! I am very aware that in order to I guess we could say "get the ball in my court again" that I have to do a 180 and NC for at least 30 days if not more. I wish the last contact I did have with her nearly a week ago that I had simply told her that I cared and loved her and that if she could figure all this out and be able to accept a loving man into her life that had no intentions of doing her wrong, that I could be that man, but on the flip side of that, I was moving on and not going to wait around. I guess that's some of the "closure" I wanted (along with "why" she did what she did) instead of ending it on an argumentative text......

Another thing that makes me "want" to tell her that is her last serious boyfriend which was over 2 years ago just up and left her without giving her any reason, no argument, no other woman, no other man, basically no nothing. I mean I am sure it was something, but nobody seemed to know. She not only told me this her friends told me this also and not by me metaling or asking, they just told me in general conversation.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Look at all the Hollywood movies in which the audience has to wait two hours for misunderstanding between the leading lady and the right guy to finally be resolved with closure (happy of course). 

Real life ain't like that. If she does not ever approach you again to discuss the situation, that says tons about her (lack) of character. Even if she were to say:

"Sorry, had the two of you and the same time. I liked you a lot but loved him more. You discovered my cheating. Sorry. Forgive me. We have to move on."


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

driving. 
i think you have your answer, maybe not the answer your looking for, maybe not the answer you want. your in pain and rightly so, it stings, it hurts , it sucks. I want you to think about something if she is this frighten of getting close now, of trusting now...then she was a walking time bomb...you could have been prince charming, and she would still have been frighten off. I know you gave up a year of your life, but your that much wiser...you now know yet another clue of what you want and what you don't want..and her....your the guy that she pushed away......she is still lost...and still hanging around a loser...some birds of a feather you don't want to Flock (insert other F-word) ;-) together.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

I guess I really know I did the right thing, maybe I am just on here venting and needing reassurance. I guess sometimes everyone needs a little of that. I appreciate it from each and every one of you, whether it's what I wanted to hear or not. Thank you once again to what I consider my "relationship shrink", my TAM family that I know I can always depend on. It sucks but it is what it is.

It's time for me to move on, hope for the best the next time around, and hopefully give some advice to another TAM member that needs it. I don't think I ever really "let my guard down" thru this entire relationship, so in that respect it hurts, but could be ALLOT more painful than it is. I hate it, really do. Just wish her the best and her kids the best. I could hate her and be mad, but heck I have been done allot worse in my life......

THANK YOU ALL!!


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

Hang in there. Keep posting.

What do the children think?


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> I wish the last contact I did have with her nearly a week ago that I had simply told her that I cared and loved her and that if she could figure all this out and be able to accept a loving man into her life that had no intentions of doing her wrong, that I could be that man, but on the flip side of that, I was moving on and not going to wait around.


 That is such a weak and needy statement, you should be glad that you did not say that to her. Trust me on this, she knows all of this about you already and she still did what she did. You keep trying to explain her actions as if she a victim of her life experience that does not truly understand the situation, when in fact she very much does understand.



drivingmenutzkma said:


> I guess that's some of the "closure" I wanted (along with "why" she did what she did) instead of ending it on an argumentative text.


 The why is obvious, given a choice she picked the other man over you. I know that you said that she knew him a lot longer than you, but in love that should not matter. When you first started dating her all of her exs knew her longer than you, but so what? When you committed to each other you did not say that you would be exclusive to each other accept for exs that you each had known longer.

The other man wanted your woman and plotted to steal her from you, and he did. The strategy on how he did this is a common one that has been going on for a long time. Google "how to steal a woman from her man" and you will see that there are many sites that tell men how to do this (the strategy has always been there but now it is on the Internet). The standard advice always given is to first be their friend, and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. These sites tell you that no one is perfect, so no matter who her man is, there will always be issues that they can exploit. On one such site is titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”. Typical of these sites, it says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” Also typically of these sites, one site said "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes her boyfriend makes. If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Similarly, another site said "You want to make the girl you want to steal away feel like she can do a lot better than the guy she is currently with. How do you do this? It is quite easy. You want to wait for the perfect opportunity to get your jabs in. Sooner or later she will mention something negative about her boyfriend and when she does you need to agree with her and say something that suggests you would not do what her boyfriend did if you had a girlfriend.” The other man simply outplayed you. Learn from this or it will happen again and again.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

TRy said:


> That is such a weak and needy statement, you should be glad that you did not say that to her. Trust me on this, she knows all of the about you already and she still did what she did. You keep trying to explain her actions as if she a victim of her life experience that does not truly understand the situation, when in fact she very much does understand.
> 
> The why is obvious, given a choice she picked the other man over you. I know that you said that she knew him a lot longer than you, but in love that should not matter. When you first started dating her all of her exs knew her longer than you, but so what? When you committed to each other you did not say that you would be exclusive to each other accept for exs that you each had know longer.
> 
> The other man wanted your woman and plotted to steal her from you, and he did. The strategy on how he did this is a common one that has been going on for a long time. Google "how to steal a woman from her man" and you will see that there are many sites that tell men how to do this (the strategy has always been there but now it is on the Internet). The standard advice always given is to first be their friend, and then use that friendship to let her vent about her man. These sites tell you that no one is perfect, so no matter who her man is, there will always be issues that they can exploit. On one such site is titled “Taking Another Man's Woman: Part II”. Typical of these sites, it says such things as “She has to perceive your intentions as being strictly innocent and friendly. Getting her to accept you as a friend is very important because later in the strategy, she will have to trust your opinion about her relationship. If she views your intentions as wanting to seduce her, she will not value your opinion.” Also typically of these sites, one site said "Cause/encourage the breakup. If you followed earlier steps, she should talk to you about the mistakes her boyfriend makes. If it's serious, let her know that what he does isn't right and she doesn't have to put up with it. Tell her you could never do that to her". Similarly, another site said "You want to make the girl you want to steal away feel like she can do a lot better than the guy she is currently with. How do you do this? It is quite easy. You want to wait for the perfect opportunity to get your jabs in. Sooner or later she will mention something negative about her boyfriend and when she does you need to agree with her and say something that suggests you would not do what her boyfriend did if you had a girlfriend.” The other man simply outplayed you. Learn from this or it will happen again and again.


I am very aware of those websites, exploits, etc. That happened with my wife to a "T"..... I also will not nor would have ever said my statement to her as it would make me look vulnerable and weak in her eyes, I do get it and understand that. I simply said it on here because if I want honest and true advice, all of you need to know how I feel and all the "ins and outs" or I won't get the advice I need. But I don't want you to think I am ignorant, I know I could never say that to her. Maybe early on in the relationship (hence the advice from other websites..lol), say maybe a year ago when we were getting to know each other, but not now and not even after a month into our relationship or any relationship for that matter. 

I left this relationship stern. I don't want you thinking I left "looking needy", that would have been the worse thing I could have done.

If I am going to ask for peoples time and advice on this site then I am going to be honest about not only the details but also how I feel on here....

And honestly I seen the OSF out with his live in woman today and they appeared happy and together. I think he just wanted his cake and eat it too. He wanted me out of the picture basically so he could do that. And I know some of you want me to post on "Cheatville" and expose him to his live in, however he has kids and step kids involved and I am not going to do that simply out of revenge. She will figure it out, it's more stress I don't want nor need. If I shed light to her then she will be contacting me and talking to me about the situation and I am simply ready to move on, I don't want to worry about another woman and her kids and step kids. I can't right now, I need to focus on my kids and me.

I hope that makes sense.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

LongWalk said:


> Hang in there. Keep posting.
> 
> What do the children think?


I have not sat the kids down and talked to them yet. They just assume we are both busy with work. I am going away for a few days for work and I am going to use that time to clear my head and then talk to them over the weekend when I return. I just need to do this for not only myself but for them also. Need to "reset".


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> I am very aware of those websites, exploits, etc. That happened with my wife to a "T".


 When you couple an opposite sex friend (OSF) using his friendship with your wife to steal your wife away, with the fact that an OSF did the same exact thing in stealing your girlfriend away from you, your earlier statement that you "understand that it is totally possible to have a good friend" "that is the opposite sex, and I firmly believe that because I am a living breathing example of having that", I get very concerned that you will be repeating this pattern in the future. 

There is a great deal of debate on if people should have OSF once they are in a committed relationship, but there is little to no debate that there needs to be clear and agreed upon OSF boundaries. One basic OSF boundary that almost everyone agrees to that you allowed your girlfriend to break, is that you can never have as an OSF anyone that you have had sex with in the past. Once the sex genie is out of the bottle between two people, it can never really be put back.


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## LongWalk (Apr 4, 2013)

OSF exist, of course they do.

Stay in NC. What remains of her stuff at your place? If it is nothing more that panties and a toothbrush, chuck them out.

If there is some item of clothing that she might be fond of, post it to her. You don't need her effects around to trigger you.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma said:


> I am very aware of those websites, exploits, etc. That happened with my wife to a "T"..... I also will not nor would have ever said my statement to her as it would make me look vulnerable and weak in her eyes, I do get it and understand that. I simply said it on here because if I want honest and true advice, all of you need to know how I feel and all the "ins and outs" or I won't get the advice I need. But I don't want you to think I am ignorant, I know I could never say that to her. Maybe early on in the relationship (hence the advice from other websites..lol), say maybe a year ago when we were getting to know each other, but not now and not even after a month into our relationship or any relationship for that matter.
> 
> I left this relationship stern. I don't want you thinking I left "looking needy", that would have been the worse thing I could have done.
> 
> ...


Ah, what a great role model. Lucky kids.

Enabler.


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## syhoybenden (Feb 21, 2013)

What I mean to say is ... If only for the kids sake alone you should be exposing. And of course then there's all the rest of the good reasons.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

syhoybenden said:


> What I mean to say is ... If only for the kids sake alone you should be exposing. And of course then there's all the rest of the good reasons.


They didn't live together... They were dating casually... There was no intentions to get married... 

Why should OP invest more of his time and efforts into something already broken? 

NC and no OSF rule in the next relationship


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

syhoybenden said:


> Ah, what a great role model. Lucky kids.
> 
> Enabler.


Is that the point of cheaterville. I hope his kids are old enough to find out their dad is a POS cheater.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

You say goodbye


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## Rottdad42 (Nov 26, 2012)

Don't talk, just walk. Been there done that, got the shirt to prove it. Not even your kids, hah!, I'm out. If have been down that road and she know it and does this despite your hurt, yeah she is a loving woman. Dude, you already know what to do, that's why you have an exw. Obviously you didn't stick with the first, why with the second. Move on man, I don't know your age, there are a lot of mentally healthy, morally endowed women out there who will treat you with respect and kindness. Don't play this game man. Burn your marriage license and walk away. Go live, you will not be living with this person, she will do this again, and again and again and again. Good luck, what a steaming pile of problems you have x 2.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

> I confronted her with it when she woke the next day and she told me he had stopped by her house driving drunk and could not drive and she made him stay.


Why could she not send him in a taxi ? That would be a very simple thing to do. A simple request, even if she considers it unreasonable. And why is this scumbag driving drunk in the first place ? 

Too bad that she made this a control issue while it is a boundaries issue. Unless she is also cheating on you with him.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Sorry, but I'm STILL not seeing where she _*cheated*_...


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

Vega said:


> Sorry, but I'm STILL not seeing where she _*cheated*_...


?? He already said he saw her daughter on the couch so that means this dude was sharing the bed with her and spending nights. She also gave him the 'entitled speech' instead of reinforcing her boundaries. Seems fairly clear to me.

Driving is going through a breakup. It hurts, it always hurts. Stay NC. Remember the good times and end it with "she f'd up. Oh well..." and hop back on that horse.

Pure speculation: I know a few recently divorced women who are gun shy. Like they refuse to allow themselves to fall in love again. When they do start... they tend to sabotage that relationship and drive those men away. It's sort of a fear thing. Might be what happened. That other dude obviously wanted more than friendship.... he just became her excuse to distance from you; The healthier choice.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Racer said:


> ?? He already said he saw her daughter on the couch so that means this dude was sharing the bed with her and spending nights. She also gave him the 'entitled speech' instead of reinforcing her boundaries. Seems fairly clear to me.
> 
> Driving is going through a breakup. It hurts, it always hurts. Stay NC. Remember the good times and end it with "she f'd up. Oh well..." and hop back on that horse.
> 
> Pure speculation: I know a few recently divorced women who are gun shy. Like they refuse to allow themselves to fall in love again. When they do start... they tend to sabotage that relationship and drive those men away. It's sort of a fear thing. Might be what happened. That other dude obviously wanted more than friendship.... he just became her excuse to distance from you; The healthier choice.


I think he said he saw HER sleeping on the couch WITH her daughter. I dont think there is proof they cheated either. However, Im in the camp that thinks "if im dating a girl and she has a man sleep over at her house...well, we're not dating anymore"


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

happi_g_more2 said:


> I think he said he saw HER sleeping on the couch WITH her daughter. I dont think there is proof they cheated either. However, Im in the camp that thinks "if im dating a girl and she has a man sleep over at her house...well, we're not dating anymore"


You are correct. I misread it....


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Racer said:


> ?? He already said *he saw her daughter on the couch* so that means this dude was sharing the bed with her and spending nights. She also gave him the 'entitled speech' instead of reinforcing her boundaries. Seems fairly clear to me.



This is from the OP's post #13:



> I need to clarify, I did not catch them in bed. I went to drop something off at her house as I was going to work and his car was there at 12am. Her blinds were open and *her AND her kid was asleep on the couch*. (emphasis added)
> 
> .


He saw both his (ex)g/f AND HER CHILD on the couch TOGETHER. He did NOT see his (ex) on the couch alone, nor did he see her child on the couch _alone_. 

In the same post, he goes on to say:



> Why did he sleep in her bed instead of *her and her daughter *sleeping in her bed and him sleeping on the couch


So, he looks through OPENED BLINDS and sees her AND HER CHILD on the couch. Seems to me that if she was trying to hide anything or thought she was doing anything "wrong", she would have closed the blinds. 

There could have been any number of INNOCENT reasons why she was on the couch with her own child in her own home. For example: Maybe the friend showed up while she and her child were both awake. Maybe the t.v. is in the living room and she and her child wanted to watch t.v. before going to sleep. Maybe she put her friend in her bedroom so she could close the door and watch t.v. with her child without disturbing her drunk friend. Maybe the bathroom is closer to the bedroom, and in case her friend needed to puke, he would be closer to the bathroom. 

As to why she didn't call someone to come and get him or call a taxi for him...why does she HAVE to do that? If she sees their relationship as platonic, and her drunk friend sees their relationship as platonic, AND THE OP SEES THEIR RELATIONSHIP AS PLATONIC, then there would be no reason WHY she would have to call someone to come and get him. 

If the OP presented his case in court, he would lose. He doesn't have a shred of 'evidence' of any _wrongdoing_. 

In fact, I get the impression that we don't have ALL of the facts from the OP...

ETA: Sorry Racer. I posted this BEFORE I saw your last post. 

Vega


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Vega said:


> Sorry, but I'm STILL not seeing where she _*cheated*_...


Well, it doesn't seem like she has any interest in contacting him to explain further. Looks like she's fine with him being gone. No?


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Well, it doesn't seem like she has any interest in contacting him to explain further. Looks like she's fine with him being gone. No?


Looks to me like she ALREADY explained, and that the OP simply didn't like her explanation. To paraphrase, she put up a drunk male friend in her bedroom while she and her child stayed in a different room on the couch. In my previous post, I brought up one scenario as a possibility. 

It's clear to me that it is the OP who was not interested in a further explanation at the time. When the OP confronted her (the following day), he made it very clear to her that he did NOT WANT ANY MAN staying over at her house. For her to offer any further details would have been pointless, as the OP already made up his mind that there would be no "good reason" for a man to stay at her house, even if that man was a drunk platonic friend. 

Also, for all WE know, the drunk friend may have woke up at 2 a.m. ... and quietly left. But even if he did, the OP STILL wouldn't have 'approved'. 

Vega


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Vega said:


> This is from the OP's post #13:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Normal people in normal relationships typically dont like/allow SOs to have OS's spend the night. Plutonic or not, it crosses lines....it crossed OPS line. Now, maybe he didnt make it clear in the beginning, but maybe he didnt think she would be so disrespectful as to have a man sleep in her house. When he pointed it out, rather then saying "hey I understand, but this is how I feel", she came back with F-U. Not normal.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

happi_g_more2 said:


> Normal people in normal relationships typically dont like/allow SOs to have OS's spend the night. Plutonic or not, it crosses lines....it crossed OPS line.


SOME "normal" people may not "like" it. Other "normal" people have no problem with it. But a "normal" person does not "allow" or not "allow" their b/f/g/f to do anything. A "normal" person recognizes that (s)he may be at cross purposes with his/her partner about opposite sex friends spending the night, and would want to TALK about it instead of issuing demands. 

The OP is obviously uncomfortable with this opposite sex friend staying there even being drunk. The OP's (ex) g/f obviously doesn't have a problem with it. It doesn't mean that the OP is "right" and his (ex)g/f is "wrong" or even "disrespectful", or vice versa. It means they are at cross purposes. 



> Now, maybe he didnt make it clear in the beginning, but maybe he didnt think she would be so disrespectful as to have a man sleep in her house


Or maybe she didn't see herself as being "disrespectful", and that she was simply caring for a drunk friend, with the belief that OP would "understand", since the OP has admitted to having opposite sex friends. 



> When he pointed it out, rather then saying "hey I understand, but this is how I feel", she came back with F-U. Not normal


The way the OP presented his...confrontation...he didn't say, "Hey, I understand, but this is how I feel". He made it VERY clear that he DID NOT WANT ANY MEN STAYING AT HER HOUSE OVERNIGHT! That statement basically slams the door on any further CALM explanation or discussion about the issue and may smack to his (ex) g/f as _CONTROLLING_ and THEN told him to "F-U!"

As long as the OP is convinced that his (ex) did something "wrong", there won't be any room to try to understand her point of view, no matter how valid it is. 

And yes, putting up a drunk opposite sex friend _IS_ valid. Just because the OP didn't like it doesn't make her actions any less valid. THAT is what the OP needs to get over before he can continue this relationship, if that's what they BOTH choose to do.

Vega


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Vega said:


> SOME "normal" people may not "like" it. Other "normal" people have no problem with it. But a "normal" person does not "allow" or not "allow" their b/f/g/f to do anything. A "normal" person recognizes that (s)he may be at cross purposes with his/her partner about opposite sex friends spending the night, and would want to TALK about it instead of issuing demands.
> 
> The OP is obviously uncomfortable with this opposite sex friend staying there even being drunk. The OP's (ex) g/f obviously doesn't have a problem with it. It doesn't mean that the OP is "right" and his (ex)g/f is "wrong" or even "disrespectful", or vice versa. It means they are at cross purposes.
> 
> ...


Sorry, was just catching up on your posts. So you seem like you have a really good understanding of men. Yes, men all over the world need their "egos stroked" by requesting that their SOs not spend the night with other men. In fact, the drunker the better. 
Rather then expecting a certain level of decorum in a relationship, we should make it practice to draw out all the boundaries explicitly. "Hey babe, just thought Id throw this out....I kind of draw that line with you sleeping alone with drunk men. I know its pushy, overbearing, controlling and down right possessive, but that's just how I feel." So that we don't accidentally end up in a situation where we are being tossed aside so our SOs can explore relationships with their affair partners...."but I thought you were just friends." 

If you would take a second to lay off the quotation mark key, and actually read a post before you respond, you might actually hear what someone is saying. OP didnt say "Hey, I understand, but thats how this is how I feel". What I wrote was that OPs ex SHOULD have said that, but instead took the feminazi stance of "F-U". 

And no, letting a drunk dude stay in your apartment when you are in a serious relationship is NOT valid. Letting him sit on your sofa with a cup of coffee while you call a cab IS valid.

Its a wonder some people cant hold onto a relationship.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Well, it doesn't seem like she has any interest in contacting him to explain further. Looks like she's fine with him being gone. No?


That's exactly why I think that OP and his xGF looked at their relationship from different angles... 

OP made it clear he didn't intent to marry her ever - so, probably she didn't see any future together.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

drivingmenutzkma,

I wanted to ask if you don't mind...

From your post it sounds you stay at each other places 3-4 nights per week.

That night you didn't stay at her house and she didn't stay at yours... Why?


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Vega said:


> SOME "normal" people may not "like" it. Other "normal" people have no problem with it. But a "normal" person does not "allow" or not "allow" their b/f/g/f to do anything. A "normal" person recognizes that (s)he may be at cross purposes with his/her partner about opposite sex friends spending the night, and would want to TALK about it instead of issuing demands.
> 
> The OP is obviously uncomfortable with this opposite sex friend staying there even being drunk. The OP's (ex) g/f obviously doesn't have a problem with it. It doesn't mean that the OP is "right" and his (ex)g/f is "wrong" or even "disrespectful", or vice versa. It means they are at cross purposes.
> 
> ...


Of course the controlling card had to be used, inevitable. It's not controlling to say "For us to be together, I won't accept drunk men in you bed". He defines his own boundaries. If she insists on having drunk men in her bed a few times a week, their just not compatible. End of story, and it also look like this is the case, doesn't it.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Aerith said:


> drivingmenutzkma,
> 
> I wanted to ask if you don't mind...
> 
> ...


He also said that he's not a "stalker", yet he admits to seeing the other guys car there 3 or 4 times over the course of a week.

Yeah, this whole thing isn't passing the smell test with me...


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## cpacan (Jan 2, 2012)

Even IF he was a stalker, how does that make his boundaries invalid...?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Vega said:


> He also said that he's not a "stalker", yet he admits to seeing the other guys car there 3 or 4 times over the course of a week.
> 
> Yeah, this whole thing isn't passing the smell test with me...


That's not stalking.


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## happi_g_more2 (Jan 27, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> That's not stalking.


Seriously, finding out your girl has a drunk man in her house, you call her on it, have a fight, then you drive by a few times to see what up. How is that considered stalking. Thats called caring.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

No real reason, that night we had just not gotten together, both had to run errands all day and I had my kids and we had just elected to both stay at home that night and spend time with our kids. We were in contact throughout the day, I knew he was there but I had no idea he would spend the night. That makes me uncomfortable. I don't think anything happened, it was simply disrespectful and made me uneasy. I was in a marriage for 10+ years which I lost due to infidelity on my ex wife's part. So there is that "worry" still there in my head, has nothing to do with my gf and not trusting her, it's just what has happened to me in my past. I never seen it coming and trusted my wife at the time. That totally caught me off guard.


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## drivingmenutzkma (Sep 12, 2010)

Because I can see her drive from my normal driving habits, it is natural to look over at her house. I don't think that is stalking. I mean you think you would not glance if you were driving by during your normal routine driving habits?


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

I hope I am not normally this obtuse but I cannot for the life of me see where she cheated. There was some arguing and defiance in defending her right to do what she wants (even if it meant crossing some boundaries that were unacceptable). However, where did she cheat ????

I hope you did not end up breaking up a good relationship over an argument.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"I hope I am not normally this obtuse but I cannot for the life of me see where she cheated. There was some arguing and defiance in defending her right to do what she wants (even if it meant crossing some boundaries that were unacceptable). However, where did she cheat ????

I hope you did not end up breaking up a good relationship over an argument."

I agree.

There is definitely no concrete evidence of cheating.

But I think we can all agree that OP is not being unreasonable by drawing a boundary saying I do not want you to have os friends stay the night, or I am out of this relationship.

She told him to F off.

He walked, and rightfully so if she would not respect her partner's feelings/boundaries on this issue, especially with the attitude she displayed in addition.


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## warlock07 (Oct 28, 2011)

Regardless of everything, she was defending a man who keeps driving drunk over her bf. F#cked up on many levels. Good riddance. This is only the beginning.


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