# My first post.. Lack of intimacy.. MAJOR problem!!



## moonchild711 (Jul 26, 2012)

Hi everyone,
This is my first post as I just happened upon this site. I am so excited that I found this site and to get feedback from others who are in the same situation... I understand people might be in the same situation but they are individuals with different viewpoints and needs. Just about my entire married life (41 years) I found myself begging for attention, need to feel as though my husband thinks I'm attractive and desires me.I could go on and on. My attempts to solve this has been ongoing... I can't even list the many, many ways I've tried to get him to desire me. Let me start off by saying that I am a very attractive woman. I take pride in my looks and I've been told I look at least 15 years younger than I am. My confidence and self esteem has dropped to the bottom of the barrel. I feel that years of not being desired does a number on you. He tells me every so often that I look good but never ever acts upon it. He does not want an intimate relationship, even though he says he does.. I have to admit I do love him and I know he loves me... I feel like I'm living with a brother rather than a husband. We have tried marriage counseling and also sex therapy. He yeses them in the sessions and does not follow up with any "homework" we might get. I am at my wits end! I do not want to get a divorce but do not know what to do!! I would absolutely love some feedback! Thanks for listening!


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## PHTlump (Jun 2, 2010)

Do a search for "thermostat" on this forum.

Your husband is a 'cold' person. You are a 'hot' person. Things are always easier for the cold person. Whatever the general temperature of the relationship, he/she can usually count on the hot person to do all the work.

So, if you want sex twice a week and your husband wants sex once a month, he can just turn you down 9 out of 10 times and still get all the sex he wants. It works for him.

So, to get his attention, you need to match his temperature. If he is cold, then you should be cold too. If he doesn't cater to your needs, then stop catering to his. This isn't really to say that you should stop trying to have sex. Because he doesn't care much about that.

You need to find what he does care about. That's his currency. If he wants you to tell him he's great, then stop doing that. Whatever you do for him, you need to cut it back until you're matching his effort in the marriage.

That will probably get him to take notice. At that point, you can tell him that you'll gladly increase your effort when he increases his. That puts his skin in the game. He then bears half the responsibility for keeping the relationship at his preferred temperature.

Once you've gotten him to increase his effort, then you can go about trying to get him to increase it a little more in certain areas, etc.

Good luck.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Welcome to the club moonchild!

Just want you to know you're not alone in this matter.


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## southern wife (Jul 22, 2011)

moonchild711 said:


> My confidence and self esteem has dropped to the bottom of the barrel.


There's 1/2 the battle right there. You need to float back up to the top of the barrel.....where your husband found you in the first place. You need to feel GOOD about yourself. Take a long hot bubble bath.....have a glass of wine.....light some candles. 

Go get a manicure and pedicure. Get your hair done........or do something cute/sassy/different with it. Wear some sexy clothes....not s!utty.............but sexy. Wear some cute shoes......show off your pretty pedicured feet. SMILE!!! 

You have got to change YOU. You certainly cannot change him. :nono:

This is certainly a start...........but then you have to maintain. 

Now google "positive affirmations" and read them...........every day! Change those negative thoughts into positive thoughts! 

And for heaven sakes, STOP begging for attention. Leave that man alone, and pay attention to yourself......then HE will pay attention to you!


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I am sorry. I know exactly how you feel. Communication didn't work and neither did my "reap what you sow" effort. I wish I could offer you advice but all I can offer is empathy.


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I can relate to moonchld's post. I feel that my personal appearance is the best it has ever been and I sure as hell do not mind some nice glances, smiles or compliments on it. Who doesn't? But you know what? I would trade all of them for one from my wife. It's almost as if she holds it against me because I spend time in the gym and have a clean diet. 

I feel that my wife looks great, too, and the handful of pounds she gained in the 18 years we know one another is a non-issue. She was a twig when we met and we have two children, so she has done quite well for herself. We used to go to the gym together and I still would do that, but she dropped out. 

I always make sure to give her a compliment when she gets her hair done, etc. but I never hear anything along those lines from her. Starts to make you feel like a **** at times. So what I'm doing now is taking the advice from another thread and stopping all the affectionate stuff. Third day and goodbye kisses aside, I haven't touched her, stroked her hair or shoulder once this week. Not sure if she has even noticed yet but after years of the same stuff and arm twisting for sex, I need to make a bold statement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

40isthenew20 said:


> . So what I'm doing now is taking the advice from another thread and stopping all the affectionate stuff. Third day and goodbye kisses aside, I haven't touched her, stroked her hair or shoulder once this week. Not sure if she has even noticed yet but after years of the same stuff and arm twisting for sex, I need to make a bold statement.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Be very careful with this approach. I am also doing the same and nothing has changed except for the fact that by doing more and more of my own things, I have started to feel detached from my wife but generally better about myself

It's been about a month since we've had sex so it's not always a good power play.

Sad thing is I'm caring less and less as time goes by


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

I tried that and lasted about 2 weeks and I don't think he even noticed.


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## 2ntnuf (Jul 14, 2012)

If you are looking good, doing well, feeling good about yourself, then you feel sexy and want to have that connection with your spouse. Could it possibly be that your spouse does not feel the same way about themselves? If that is the case, all the 'take this away if I don't get that', will only make your spouse feel worse about themselves. They will feel they are not worth your effort. That will cause them to move further away instead of closer. Maybe if your spouse works on making themselves feel important, the problem will resolve itself? Is it worth a try? Maybe there is some counseling they can start with for self worth? Maybe they can learn to do something for themselves that makes them feel like they have accomplished something? I don't think the 'tit for tat' thing works all that well when the two in the relationship are not on the same emotional level. It feels more like punishment. When there is low self-esteem, that punishment feels extremely severe. There has to be another way? I hope.


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## mattcook (Jul 19, 2012)

Moonchild, so very sorry you aren't getting your needs met. Read carefully and follow this simple formula and you'll get what you want in spades.

Here's what you do. You make your husband spend 30 minutes in the morning and 30 minutes at night, snuggling and cuddling with you. 

No sex.

Just that.

You can cuddle with him and show him how it's done in case he forgot.

The critical thing is as much skin on skin contact and positive soothing vibes as possible.

Hold hands and gaze into each other's eyes at other times if you can.

It's about that simple.

Now, he won't want to do it. Try to do it watching TV or some other time. Try to do it before he falls asleep. You both naked is best but it works even clothed.

Within two weeks you'll have a different marriage and a different husband. Especially if you avoid any sex for those two weeks.

If he is a very compulsive masturbator, this won't be quite as effective. Has he discussed his masturbation habits with you at all? A lot of guys have ended up getting into high speed video porn and they don't have the desire for their real woman because their brains are de-sensitized due to the high speed video porn. That could be part of his issue.

But this formula works like crazy. It is simple and it is amazing. Try it and let us know how it's going!


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

Toffer said:


> Be very careful with this approach. I am also doing the same and nothing has changed except for the fact that by doing more and more of my own things, I have started to feel detached from my wife but generally better about myself
> 
> It's been about a month since we've had sex so it's not always a good power play.
> 
> Sad thing is I'm caring less and less as time goes by


That's one of my concerns in taking this approach. It does feel a little weird making a concerted effort to not do what comes natural to me (and I'm not referring to sex, but rather casual signs of spousal affection).
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Moonchild--It is good you found this place, it has changed my world and I think you will find answers here. 

First off to 40is--I think 52 is the new 20 and this is anonymous so I'll take some liberty. I have tried everything over a two year time period including withholding affection and ignoring her emotional needs. I would caution against it as you are moving apart as a couple. I understand the advice of withholding things in a negotiation but that was a non-starter for us. The spirit that is required to pierce through this is more of a "pay it forward" mentality. Don't think in terms of currency, more in terms of filling your partner up emotionally and that can be a lot of small touches or some big, resounding connections. If you approach each contact with your spouse as a way to give them some emotional support, you will find it to be habit forming and it becomes a lifestyle. It seems like the disappointment of a missed connection is easier to deal with when things are less transactional as sometimes...its nobodies fault if it didn't come together. 

I went on a 6 month hiatus just to get my wife's attention. She barely noticed the missing sex but by the end of it we were more distant and I found her to be more receptive to some changes. Whatever currency value she thought she had in her V was up in smoke as I could very well live without it. The question she needed to answer for herself, was would I. If the abstinence desert can be avoided it is a good idea because men are not built for abstinence of that length and there is insomnia and other "congestion afflictions" you don't wish on your worst enemy.

All this time I never asked my wife to make any changes and I think this is important. I was the one wanting to change this element of our relationship and I am willing to own the "action plans". I improved everything about myself as a person, husband and father. I spent more than a year taking fitness to a new level, adding outside activities and contacts, identifying and "more than satisfying" her needs. When you are working on yourself and finding new challenges it results in a surge of energy and that is infectious. 

It has been a long haul and we have come together as a couple like never before. That doesn't mean we don't have setbacks, but we talk through them. Those usually relate to her thinking I am asking for her to make some type of change which is why I made the point earlier to focus inward and improve yourself. Pointing a finger at your partner seems like a way to get to defensiveness and denial. My wife probably has no idea what happened and is sure she has some ownership for it by being receptive and trying to say "yes" and I am happy to give her that. She has no idea the breadth and depth of the campaign I launched to attract her back to me it doesn't matter.

Spend as much time together as is possible and shoot for 15 hours per week of couple time. That will include shopping trips, cooking together, walks and all sorts of new ideas like ballroom dancing to get you to the goal. Be hopeful and read all you can and you will find answers. A dose of determination and an unwavering commitment will bring you what you want.

PS--I wouldn't bet against Matt Cook's idea either.


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## moonchild711 (Jul 26, 2012)

Thanks again for all the feedback! I think some of you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I am not withholding anything. 
I long for a relationship where I feel desired and attractive. He never talks about his feelings. I am an open book as far as how I feel about what it is I want in our relationship and he does not respond to my needs. He tells me that I should know he finds me attractive. How am I supposed to know when I do not feel it and he does not tell me.. He rolls his eyes when I bring it up. I am so frustrated and do not know what else to do..
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Its counter intuitive but the change came for me when I decided I was prepared to risk it all over it. You need to make it impossible for him to ignore your needs at the risk of losing you. If there are no consequences it will be inertia.

Find new interests without him, maintain an air of mystery about them, live with new energy and vitality.


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## sharon75 (Jul 26, 2012)

My husband and i have not had sex for 2yrs. I am 36 and we have had problem in the bedroom for about 7 years now my husband has erection problems, i feel unloved and have no pleasure in how i look as i have turned to food. I have no one to speak to as i am so ashamed.


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## mattcook (Jul 19, 2012)

sharon75 said:


> My husband and i have not had sex for 2yrs. I am 36 and we have had problem in the bedroom for about 7 years now my husband has erection problems, i feel unloved and have no pleasure in how i look as i have turned to food. I have no one to speak to as i am so ashamed.


read my advice to Moonchild above. This will work for you too. It will work even if you are feeling like it won't. Even if he isn't into it. 

Erection problems are most of the time, with men, related to overuse of porn and masturbation.

It would really help if you can find out if he is using porn and masturbating and get him to try to stop. Not an easy thing. But almost all men with erection problems (ruling out health issues which are not nearly as common as the medical folks want you to think) are due to porn, and the erectile dysfunction that porn causes in many men. It isn't is fault and the only person who can really help him is himself. But you can get an understanding of the problem and not blame yourself.

And try to follow my advice above on cuddling and snuggling. It can be a different world for you in two weeks.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

moonchild711 said:


> Hi everyone,
> My attempts to solve this has been ongoing... I can't even list the many, many ways I've tried to get him to desire me.


I did this to my wife for years. I was selfish and didn't care much focusing on fun, friends, sports, work what have you...

I caught my wife talking to another man on the phone. Let me tell you one thing right now. You have to sit him down and TELL HIM EXACTLY what that will mean if it continues.

Tell him that THIS RELATIONSHIP WILL END IF YOU DON'T SHOW me that you love me and work harder.
Truthfully it has to be something very profound if you want change. I mean do it or its over.

The reality of it is that it probably will end if something doesn't change.


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## lifeisnotsogood (Jun 11, 2012)

You and I are the same. My W should have married your H. the are identical. I am more like you. I am affectionate, passionate, I love to touch, cuddle, hold hands, kiss, etc.

Like you, we are in MC. I think the MC is working for us a little as she has been more affectionate lately. She's still not reached the level of affection I am seeking but it's progressing. Now i'm just wondering if this will last.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Toffer and 40itn20, may I ask what your main concerns are? I started doing the same, same results as you and so far she seems ok with the staus quo and I getting better at accepting it is what is, she just dosent seem to care about my needs, perparing myself for an exit in the near future if things dont change, she knows this but has made no real effort to communicate with me a workable solution together.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Find new interests without him, maintain an air of mystery about them, live with new energy and vitality.


Cte8,

This is the avenue I have been traveling for about a month with not a word from her asking what is going on. It's not that I'm with holding sex, it's that since I was the intiator 97% of the time and I was often rejected, I've stopped intiating. While she's more than welcome to intiate any time, I am not sure how I will respond as the weeks go on.

Unfortunately, this path also leads to an emotional detachment too. To avoid the hurt feelings you immerse yourself in other things. Pretty soon you find yourself hummimg along your own path and then it's easy not to give those compliments or that non-sexual touch since you don't get them in return.

I've tried some of the advice I've gotten here with temporary results and I think I'm just done trying (beats head against wall)


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Toffer and 40itn20, may I ask what your main concerns are? I started doing the same, same results as you and so far she seems ok with the staus quo and I getting better at accepting it is what is, she just dosent seem to care about my needs, perparing myself for an exit in the near future if things dont change, she knows this but has made no real effort to communicate with me a workable solution together.


Actually for me the biggest issue was/is our frequency. I know that womane need the emotional tank filled before they feel the want to be intimate and I spent so much time filling her tank with very mixed results.

So about a month back, I went full swing into using the time that I used to dedicate filling her tank into filling mine. I have picked up some old hobbies, re-established some old friendships and just go out with friends (and I am usually vague about who they are. where we go and when I'll be home)

The last time I did this there was some real progress but it feel to the side about 6 weeks after. Now it's more about me. While not thrilled with our current situation, I am definitely better with it. In fact, if she approached me today, I'm not sure if I'd want to experience that high again because than I'd start the cycle all over again.


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

I have found that when I listen to my wife and increase the intimacy level that she goes nuts and wants sex very much. It appears to be linked somehow. Who knew. lol


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Shocker said:


> I have found that when I listen to my wife and increase the intimacy level that she goes nuts and wants sex very much. It appears to be linked somehow. Who knew. lol


Did the same with real intrest, results = nada


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Did the same with real intrest, results = nada


Ok, lets test her real interest level. Bring her flowers home today for no reason. Hand them to her and tell her you love her. Tried it?

Oh and get her talking about something SHE likes and keep your mouth shut. I mean...if you haven't tried that.


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## Cosmos (May 4, 2012)

I think if both parties want to get intimacy back into the relationship, Mattcook's suggestions are excellent. However, as Toffer said:-



> The last time I did this there was some real progress but it feel to the side about 6 weeks after. Now it's more about me. While not thrilled with our current situation, I am definitely better with it. In fact, if she approached me today, I'm not sure if I'd want to experience that high again because than I'd start the cycle all over again.


There does come a time when the rejected party will eventually avoid intimacy as they simply don't want that roller coaster all over again. Sometimes it's better to know what one's diet is, and take control of it, rather than suffer the indignity of being thrown the odd crumbs.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Toffer--You may have to continue to initiate. If I stopped we would never make love again. There is nothing fair about that but she was OK with the way it was, I am not. At some point, at least for us, it became undeniably obvious that everything we did together was richer and fuller as an intimately connected couple. From that point I think additional progress can be pursued. That buy in came from my wife when she told me I was right all along.

My new challenge is trying to get her to make love to me. I am the one seeking intimacy as an expression of her love for me. She expresses that by allowing me to make love to her...nice. This means I am pulling her out of her comfort zone a bit and she sometimes pushes back. I have told her that is entirely her prerogative to reject my advances but then she needs to own it and come back with her own advance. We will see. She does know we are better together when we are connected. She does know I can live without it. 

This does take allot of encouragement on my part to make her feel sexy and desired. Ask her to wear certain things or move certain ways or stand in certain shadows or light and let her know you are taking in her beauty. Simple texts and phone messages spaced throughout the day take 5 minutes of your time but let her know she is in your thoughts.

Don't get discouraged because these routines have been years in the making and they are not easy to reprogram. My case had to be one of the more difficult challenges. Re-read MMSL and stay the course.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Ok, lets test her real interest level. Bring her flowers home today for no reason. Hand them to her and tell her you love her. Tried it?
> 
> _one up you, hand picked wild flowers,ones she likes all around our land, picked them, cut them to lentgh, made them look as nice as I could, arranged is a nice vase, nice little note with them & have sent flowers to her wok dozens and dozens of times over the years, brought home flowers also = same results_
> Oh and get her talking about something SHE likes and keep your mouth shut. I mean...if you haven't tried that.


_I know what you mean, I've listened, really listened, engaged when she was asking my opionon or thoughts = same results_


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## mattcook (Jul 19, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> _I know what you mean, I've listened, really listened, engaged when she was asking my opionon or thoughts = same results_


forget all that malarkey. Do 30 - 60 minutes of naked cuddling and try to avoid sex during that time. And you'll discover how passionate and deep love can be. It sounds very simplistic, and it is, but it's based upon brain chemistry and not just some ideas about "better communication" or "do more things around the house." Those things are good, but they automatically follow when you two have built up the Love Hormone and have that extraordinary love going on between you.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Shocker said:


> Ok, lets test her real interest level. Bring her flowers home today for no reason. Hand them to her and tell her you love her. Tried it?
> 
> Oh and get her talking about something SHE likes and keep your mouth shut. I mean...if you haven't tried that.


Tried this a few weeks back. Nothing....Nada...Zip other than "oh these are beautiful. Thank you" and a quick kiss

Decided to save my money......


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

mattcook said:


> forget all that malarkey. Do 30 - 60 minutes of naked cuddling and try to avoid sex during that time. And you'll discover how passionate and deep love can be. It sounds very simplistic, and it is, but it's based upon brain chemistry and not just some ideas about "better communication" or "do more things around the house." Those things are good, but they automatically follow when you two have built up the Love Hormone and have that extraordinary love going on between you.


We both are in agreement that I take care the outside stuff, grass, house repairs, cars etc, she takes care of the inside..we are both very cool with that...as far as the naked cuddling, will give it a whirl...


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

I did flowers this week too and did not get lucky since. But I will...steady hand on the tiller!


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## Shocker (Jul 26, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> We both are in agreement that I take care the outside stuff, grass, house repairs, cars etc, she takes care of the inside..we are both very cool with that...as far as the naked cuddling, will give it a whirl...


Wait...that avatar of yours isn't you right? Lil humor. Keep trying but keep demanding your own respect. Thats a must.


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## mattcook (Jul 19, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> I did flowers this week too and did not get lucky since. But I will...steady hand on the tiller!


doesn't it seem kind of manipulative inside, to give something in expectation of getting something? The reason this doesn't "work" the way we think it will is that women don't think like guys, thank goodness. 

The key to intimacy is to build up Oxytocin in your partner's and your brains. Deep passionate love is actually a matter of brain chemistry. We know that from a lot of study that is being done.

Smart couples take advantage of this. The advice is actually simple and age-old and it works.


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## strugglinghusband (Nov 9, 2011)

Shocker said:


> Wait...that avatar of yours isn't you right? Lil humor. Keep trying but keep demanding your own respect. Thats a must.


well yes it is, you wouldnt want to see me after I shave, its pretty gross...:rofl:


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## SprucHub (Jan 13, 2012)

moonchild711 said:


> Thanks again for all the feedback! I think some of you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. I am not withholding anything.
> I long for a relationship where I feel desired and attractive. He never talks about his feelings. I am an open book as far as how I feel about what it is I want in our relationship and he does not respond to my needs. He tells me that I should know he finds me attractive. How am I supposed to know when I do not feel it and he does not tell me.. He rolls his eyes when I bring it up. I am so frustrated and do not know what else to do..
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Moonchild - I think the commenters get it. They are going through the same thing - not getting what you need to feel loved. The key word is need. 

That you need something is very difficult to effectively communicate to someone that does not need that thing. He may hear you, but not understand the need part of it. He is satisfied and does not understand why you are not and might chalk it up to female hormones or being irrational or something else. But you and I know that is not it.

People are suggesting ways of developing that desire in him. But, I do not know if that will work. Obviously, the first step is to gain/regain your confidence and independence. Feel good about yourself and learn what you need.

Then, finding a way to communicate that is the next step. It may be as much as sitting him down, instructing him to not talk and telling him that although you've had the conversation many times he is not getting it. You need affection to feel loved. Like cars, people need different fuel. He is putting regular (or deisel) in a high test engine. That can only work for so long. Make sure he gets that you are unhappy, not just complaining.

Find or write something for him to read addressing what you want. This can be tricky to give positive instruction. If you tell him you want hugs and affirmation, is he giving it to you because you told him or because he wants to. Only long-term affection can solve that insecurity.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Toffer--You may have to continue to initiate. If I stopped we would never make love again. There is nothing fair about that but she was OK with the way it was, I am not.
> 
> *I don't have a problem intiating (although it would be nice if she did every now and then) The issue has become rejection. My problem is described perfectly here "*There does come a time when the rejected party will eventually avoid intimacy as they simply don't want that roller coaster all over again. Sometimes it's better to know what one's diet is, and take control of it, rather than suffer the indignity of being thrown the odd crumbs."
> (Thanks to Cosmos)
> ...


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Actually told wife last time we talked that there were instances where she TOLD me I was going to get lucky on a particular night and nothing happened. Her response was that she'd stop saying that then, not (Oh I'm sorry. If I do it again, I'll make it up to you in the AM or the next night"

Maybe she should have her foundation shook a bit and tell her that's crap and she knows it. And whenever she's willing to stop the nonsense you will commence with an adult conversation.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8,

Every time I think she's seen the light I've been wrong.

I've thought about "shaking the foundation" too and I kind of hope it either unfolds with her starting a conversation about our non-sexual life (to which I will tell her "Well since you seem fine with not having a sex life, I thought we'd keep going down this path until I meet someone who wants a sex life. Then we can talk again") or her intiating, I reject and tell her that I am not interested in getting my hopes up (amongst other things ) again to return to a very Spartan sex life a few weeks later.

Snarky? Yep but I bet it'll feel great!


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## Mr B (Feb 6, 2009)

mattcook said:


> Erection problems are most of the time, with men, related to overuse of porn and masturbation.
> 
> It would really help if you can find out if he is using porn and masturbating and get him to try to stop. Not an easy thing. But almost all men with erection problems (ruling out health issues which are not nearly as common as the medical folks want you to think) are due to porn, and the erectile dysfunction that porn causes in many men. It isn't is fault and the only person who can really help him is himself. But you can get an understanding of the problem and not blame yourself.
> 
> And try to follow my advice above on cuddling and snuggling. It can be a different world for you in two weeks.


This is correct, porn conditioning and a growing preference for porn and masturbation over partner sex will cause ejaculatory and erectile problems. Sometimes Viagra can help but very often these men simply lose sexual desire for their partners and Viagra can't help with that. The cuddling and snuggling is part of a Sex Therapy technique called Sensate Focus. It has more success with sexually dysfunctional women than men but it might help.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

Do you want her to initiate because of the cumulative pain of past rejections? I'll see your thousand rejections and raise you 500 (because I am older than you). 

I know what you are thinking and I thought that too but that's a heavy anchor to drag around. I have told my wife I have never, and will never reject a sexual advance from her. If she is willing to expose herself and reach out to me, it would be too cruel.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> Do you want her to initiate because of the cumulative pain of past rejections? I'll see your thousand rejections and raise you 500 (because I am older than you).
> 
> I know what you are thinking and I thought that too but that's a heavy anchor to drag around. I have told my wife I have never, and will never reject a sexual advance from her. If she is willing to expose herself and reach out to me, it would be too cruel.


Believe me, it's great when she does intiate but it's not that I need that. I'm OK being the intiator. It's being the rejectee that's got me down and to the place I am now.

I once told her that if I am suffering a gun shot wound but have managed to stem the bleeding some, I'm good to go!

Rejection = Too Cruel? So what were your 1500 rejections? Pleasure? Maybe a taste of her own medicinne will force the issue out into the ugly light of day a little more


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

strugglinghusband said:


> Toffer and 40itn20, may I ask what your main concerns are? I started doing the same, same results as you and so far she seems ok with the staus quo and I getting better at accepting it is what is, she just dosent seem to care about my needs, perparing myself for an exit in the near future if things dont change, she knows this but has made no real effort to communicate with me a workable solution together.


My main concerns are two-fold, yet related. I don't think that expecting intimacy (sexual and non-sexual) from the person you're married to and have children with is asking too much. And I know that my wife will just let it go by and not initiate any signs of affection, albeit sexual or casual. But I refuse to ruin my chikdren's lives by leaving. One parent households are notorious for te kids getting into trouble and I'm not saying that all are like that. Or that two parents means te kids will not screw up. It's just that every time I hear of someone in my neighborhood having issues with a wayward child, it's a divorce situation. So I'm putting my children's needs in front of my own.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't see it that way. That is going to have to stay one of my unrealized fantasies. If you want to the the initiator...there are no guarantees in life...and life certainly is anything but fair...then you better be willing to live with the result. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?

I haven't cried in many years, since a loved one passed away. When I told my wife I would never be so cruel as to reject her there was a serious mist coming that was unmistakable to her. This is some deep seated s**t. We just need to somehow find understanding.


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Very noble 40isthenew20.

Sensing I've got a few years on you by your screen name but I think I'm just a a real low point.

You've all (mostly) said many of the things I have. I love her, I like spending time with her, she's a nice person, great mother takes great care of me in all but 1 way. It's unfortunate that that 1 way has such far reaching consequences


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> I don't see it that way. That is going to have to stay one of my unrealized fantasies. If you want to the the initiator...there are no guarantees in life...and life certainly is anything but fair...then you better be willing to live with the result. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, right?
> 
> I haven't cried in many years, since a loved one passed away. When I told my wife I would never be so cruel as to reject her there was a serious mist coming that was unmistakable to her. This is some deep seated s**t. We just need to somehow find understanding.


Don't get me wrong, I know to expect times when she doesn't want to. Believe me, she's waived me off far in advance over the years with things like:

"I feel so bloated. I wonder if I'm starting my period now"

"I am just so pooped today. I can't wait to get to bed and get some sleep"

"My stomach has been bothering me all day"

Whenever i hear these type of things, I envision the guy on the aircraft carrier who waves the paddles frantically to wave off a jet approaching for a landing.

That's the reason for my avatar. It's Snoopy getting shot down AGAIN by the Red Baron! I know how he feels, constantly climbing into that ****pit (appropriate word for this conversation) and heading up into the sky even though he pretty much knows how the flight will end (shot down in flames)


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

You don't have to go anywhere 40is. Just re-framing the issue so everything is on the table is enough. Its like raising your voice and making the room go silent. You then have her attention. Do you think your wife wants to disrupt your kid's perfect little world over this?

By the way, on the fitness part. You could stand on my abs and I see from your avatar I could stand on yours. My wife could not care less, not her thing. BUT...not all women are the same and its not a bad thing to be attractive to some of the rest of womankind. Keep crunchin'.


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

"I feel so bloated. I wonder if I'm starting my period now"

"I am just so pooped today. I can't wait to get to bed and get some sleep"

"My stomach has been bothering me all day"

*I tell my wife those are just excuses and if you want to find one, there is always a suitable one to chose. Usually is not getting enough sleep...whatever. I am the glass half full guy and I try my best not to whine and to be deaf to whining. If she is whining that doesn't mean I would always press on her for sex...but it doesn't mean I wouldn't.*


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Cre8ify said:


> "I feel so bloated. I wonder if I'm starting my period now"
> 
> "I am just so pooped today. I can't wait to get to bed and get some sleep"
> 
> ...


To be honest, most of these times are genuine. The only one I don't care for is the "I'm tired" one. OK, sleep when we're done or go to sleep and when Mr. Happy wakes up, I'll wake you up!

One of our biggest disconnects is the fact that, due to my work schedule I'm in bed before her. She has told me that her preference is to get busy when she first comes to bed, before she's asleep.

OK, the problem here is that she falls asleep in under 5 mins. She always has, even when we were dating. Because of this, she'll get into bed, I'll start to wake up but by the time the touching and stuff leading to heavier foreplay begins, she's OUT


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

40,
I wonder if you and Toffer see this the way that I do. I think that you might not. 
If your wife's love languages are words and acts of service, and your "thermostat" tactics are to "reduce affection and sex", you are wasting your time. She is GLAD you lowered the temperature in that area. If you wish to create change you cut back on HER love languages. 

Giving her a Quick peck in the lips and "I love you" in the morning is you conveying to her "That you are fine with how she is treating you".


UOTE=40isthenew20;939746]I can relate to moonchld's post. I feel that my personal appearance is the best it has ever been and I sure as hell do not mind some nice glances, smiles or compliments on it. Who doesn't? But you know what? I would trade all of them for one from my wife. It's almost as if she holds it against me because I spend time in the gym and have a clean diet. 

I feel that my wife looks great, too, and the handful of pounds she gained in the 18 years we know one another is a non-issue. She was a twig when we met and we have two children, so she has done quite well for herself. We used to go to the gym together and I still would do that, but she dropped out. 

I always make sure to give her a compliment when she gets her hair done, etc. but I never hear anything along those lines from her. Starts to make you feel like a **** at times. So what I'm doing now is taking the advice from another thread and stopping all the affectionate stuff. Third day and goodbye kisses aside, I haven't touched her, stroked her hair or shoulder once this week. Not sure if she has even noticed yet but after years of the same stuff and arm twisting for sex, I need to make a bold statement.
_Posted via Mobile Device_[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey Mem,

Can't speak for 40 but I know I don't do things like that anymore

No more holding hands, no more "I love you" just try to be polite and say please and thank you
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

MEM,

I really liked what you said. It makes sense.

I will have sex as much as my husband wants. I think he gets all that he wants....

But, he puts no effort into meeting my emotional needs. Absolutely none. It has gotten so bad that my confidence is down and I'm not as open sexually now...it's just not as good as it was before. And it's hard to initiate sex when your confidence is so low. And like i have heard alot of people say here, it's not because I'm unattractive and don't take care of myself. I look at least 10 years younger than I am and am a very sensual, passionate woman. It makes me so envious to hear all of you talk about how you shower your wives with affection and compliments!

So, do you really think it would help if I stop meeting his physical needs?


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## 40isthenew20 (Jul 12, 2012)

I don't think that there is any correlation, but my wife began warming up ever so slightly two days ago. We were hardly together much during the few days that I was experimenting with the 'no affection from me' attitude. 

She actually cracked open the "Fifty Shades" book I bought her weeks ago and we had a little fun that night and then yesterday there was actually about an hour of an empty house with the kids out and we had a little afternoon delight. 

And today, my package from "Adam & Eve" arrived and even though she is acting as if she is not that interested, I know that once I break open the toys, she'll be glad that I went online shopping that day. 

Perhaps I'm starting to melt the ice...


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dixie,
I do. Help me understand how this works. What did he "do in the past" to show love, that he isn't doing now:
- words
- acts of service
- gifts
- qt


UOTE=dixieangel;942995]MEM,

I really liked what you said. It makes sense.

I will have sex as much as my husband wants. I think he gets all that he wants....

But, he puts no effort into meeting my emotional needs. Absolutely none. It has gotten so bad that my confidence is down and I'm not as open sexually now...it's just not as good as it was before. And it's hard to initiate sex when your confidence is so low. And like i have heard alot of people say here, it's not because I'm unattractive and don't take care of myself. I look at least 10 years younger than I am and am a very sensual, passionate woman. It makes me so envious to hear all of you talk about how you shower your wives with affection and compliments!

So, do you really think it would help if I stop meeting his physical needs?[/QUOTE]
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

MEM,

He has in the past:

bought me flowers...(not in at least 2 years)
gifts for special occassions... (he forgot my bday a few months ago and didn't try to make up for it..not even a belated card)
texted me during the day just because or to flirt...(never now)
compliment me ...(can't remember last time)
show anticipation for sex and initiate..(never, and rare)
take me out to dinner or a concert...(rare now)
take a trip out of town...(he recently took a week off and went to las vegas with his family..i wasn't invited because it was planned when we were separated..he sprung it on me at the last minute..this devastated me)
have an hour or more of sex...(now it's reduced to less than 30 minutes)
pillow talk...(rare)


I try really hard not to let this get me down, but it's hard. It isn't that he has never done these things. He just doesn't anymore. Is it simply just taking me for granted or more? Am i wrong for feeling down and like something isn't quite right?


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## Toffer (Jan 31, 2012)

dixie,

What have you done for him lately?

I'm not trying to be a jerk but maybe her feels that he's done all this in the past and never got any reciprocity?


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

what have i done for him?....

cook his favorite foods
help with finances
give him gifts ..never forget his bday
help around the house...keep it clean, even yardwork
affectionate, flirtatious, initiate sex

I don't know what I'm missing.........


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## Cre8ify (Feb 1, 2012)

The other of the Big Two guy things besides physical intimacy would be him feeling *Respected and Admired*. This usually means just the way he is...code for--just accept the way he cleans the refrigerator, even if you do it better!


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Dixie,
Hmmmm

Why did you separate?

Is he taking you for granted or is he keeping some spacing because he is easily hurt or you are hurtful without meaning to be? 

I am hesitant to say this because it requires certain wiring that not everyone has: One odd reason I really love my W is that she is difficult - but in a cute way. And she is a little bltchy which is very hot. AND she sometimes crosses the line into being mean which is: NOT hot, and feels BAD to me. 

But you can't take away the "edge" that makes her mean, and STILL have the playful - spicy - spirited interaction that makes her HER. So - I spank her when she is mean. Verbally, emotionally and if she proceeds after being warned - physically. 



dixieangel said:


> MEM,
> 
> He has in the past:
> 
> ...


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## dixieangel (Jun 28, 2012)

MEM,

We separated for 8 months last year because we had so many things we just didn't see eye to eye on...and could never come to any compromises. We were arguing more than we were getting along. We are opposites and it's very difficult. We have this strange very strong attraction but when we disagree we are both so stubborn. When we get along it is heaven...when we don't, it's hell..... 

I do think my husband likes my feistiness and spontaneity...and I'm attracted to his toughness and stability...so maybe I have been a little much lately. A few weeks ago, I insisted that he get his ex lovers and ex wife off of his facebook and phone....maybe that's what has gotten him distant too...

Thanks for your response.


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