# Daughter moved out today



## Adelais

Daughter, 20 moving out today. I'm excited for her, and worried at the same time. She is attending university in our town, on a full ride scholarship, but we also wanted her to live at home, and work part time to pay for her own phone, car insurance and clothes to ease into financial responsibility. Now she thinks she can pay for everything, although she no longer has a job.

Her future roommates are good kids, our pastor's kids. They are both in college, and are renting a house together that they plan to buy. They have told her she doesn't have to pay for anything for a couple of months, until she has a job. Regarding roommates, I can't complain, as they are responsible, not into mischief, and are grounded in their walks with God. They use their house to host college fellowship and church youth group meetings, which our younger children attend. The house is closer to campus and the grocery store than our house is.

However, I'm worried about her. When she was on her own for a month last summer (I kicked her out for a variety of issues...sleeping all day, not doing chores, not coming home at night, bad example to her sisters, calling me names, on the internet instead of studying, she failed her classes last semester, disrespect and demanding to know the WiFi password that we changed to keep her off, using up all our WiFi data on our shared plan to watch Youtube videos) she became very depressed. She had already been in a depression for months, which caused her to flunk all her classes Spring semester. There was a lot going on, that would cause anyone stress. However she didn't handle the stress well at all. I read her journal after she moved back home (concerned mother...nosy b**ch you choose) and she wrote several times of killing herself, with a razer blade. According to her journal, when she went to the store for one, they were out.)

I don't know how she is going to do it financially, and I'm not sure if we should help her, and with how much. We live within 4 miles of campus, and there is really no need for her to move out. She could live with us for free, except for paying for her phone and car insurance.

What do other parents here on TAM do, who are in a similar situation? Dave Ramsey says kids should pay their own way, and that it is good for them to learn how to do it. My parents paid car insurance and I had a student loan, as long as I kept my grades up. They gave me $20 a month which was not much way back when I was in college. My husband's parents paid for nothing for him. 

Asking for your experiences in these specific areas:

Who pays for phone
Who pays for car insurance
Who pays for car repairs
Did you give them $ for food and rent?
Do you clear out their room if they officially move out? What do you store or get rid of that they leave behind?
What do you do to keep the lines of communication if they aren't the type to call home to just chat?

I'm a bit relieved for the lower financial cost of having her in the home, and look forward to putting more away for retirement, but should we just give her what we would have spent on her if she lived at home, since she is still in college, studying?

I don't think I am ready for this. She has been difficult the last year, but all I can think of is the beautiful, sweet, loving child and teenager she once was. I don't want to lose her as an adult.:crying:


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## Adelais

Talked with someone today. This is how they do it:

Parent pays:
Base phone fee while student is on family's plan
Car insurance while student is in school and on parent's policy
Take them grocery shopping once a week for together time and parent pays for the groceries.
Pay for part of the rent....(not sure I agree with this one, since she could have "free" rent at home. Now we have an empty room, but the same mortgage. Paying for her rent somewhere else just doesn't make sense.

Student pays:
gas
car repairs
clothes
"fun" activities

As long as she is in school, that is her main job, and she doesn't need added stresses. At the same time, she needs to begin to understand how to budget and how much things cost.

Who pays for clothes? I was very frugal when I was a student, but I had a student loan, and my parents supplemented a little. They gave me no $ for clothes, and I had a part time job, but couldn't afford clothes. However, I wish I had been able to get some clothes or a hair cut here and there.

Any more ideas?


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## LaReine

I went to uni at 18 and paid for everything myself- I lived with my grandmother and paid part rent and utilities. I worked part-time. 
I paid for uni too.

She's 20- if she chooses to live out of home, she needs to pay her own way. I would consider buying a few groceries once a month for the house as the others are being VERY generous to her. 

But given her past behaviour I have a feeling she is going to let those others down (not get a job and help pay) though I sincerely hope I am wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Adelais

LaReine said:


> I went to uni at 18 and paid for everything myself- I lived with my grandmother and paid part rent and utilities. I worked part-time.
> I paid for uni too.
> 
> She's 20- if she chooses to live out of home, she needs to pay her own way. I would consider buying a few groceries once a month for the house as the others are being VERY generous to her.
> 
> But given her past behaviour I have a feeling she is going to let those others down (not get a job and help pay) though I sincerely hope I am wrong.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Good for you, how you went to University!

Like you, I'm not sure if she can keep it together. She seems to be doing better this semester, but I don't know what her grades are like. She has been gone a lot "studying," which I hope to be true. She has been spending the night at a friend's house, "studying," and this could be true, since the girl has her same scholarship, and she wants to keep it.

One of her bosses (she had two jobs last year) was sexually harassing her last year, and I think that caused part of her depression. There was nothing I could do to help her, since she is an adult. She wouldn't listen to me, and confront him or tell him to stop. "That's not how things are done today, Mom. I'll look like a whiner, or like I'm over reacting."

Her back was also hurting, and at the time she wouldn't get any help. When she was kicked out, she did go to a Dr. and then a physical therapist. The exercises are helping. The Dr. also hooked her up with a counselor, and I think she opened up to her.

I'm hoping that she has dealt with the issues, and will be able to pull her weight around the house. I don't understand why they would let someone move in for free for a couple of months, but one of them has a full time job, and the other is graduated, looking for a job, and about to start graduate school. They think she is a good kid, and want to help her out??

I hope she gets some real life experience with them. They won't put up with her if she begins acting with them like she did at home. While she was couch hopping this summer, she stayed with our son, and he finally told her to get off her duff and look for a job. Maybe that is why she finally came back home...people were getting tired of her and she was getting tired of herself...causing her to get more depressed.

She seemed to get out of her depression after she came back home, but she was very upset with me for kicking her out in the first place, and was very distant, talking about moving out. Now she has found a way. As a mother, I hope it works out for her, and if it doesn't, I told her she can come home....and get a job if she doesn't keep her scholarship.


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## john117

My daughters are in their low to mid 20's. One in grad school and one 1st year medical school. DD1 has a full ride and stipend, DD2, well, LoL. Both live in their own apartments. 

We pay for DD1's rent, utilities, car insurance, and cat food (). She pays for her food, books, etc. Once or twice a semester we drop a carload of food.

DD2's costs are on us as well. She's a lot closer to us than DD1 so every couple weeks we drop food. No car yet - next year she may get my Mini. DD1 has her car from undergraduate.

Both girls got their "dowry", a fair amount of Wayfair and IKEA furniture, and assorted kitchenware and linens.


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## Adelais

john117 said:


> My daughters are in their low to mid 20's. One in grad school and one 1st year medical school. DD1 has a full ride and stipend, DD2, well, LoL. Both live in their own apartments.
> 
> We pay for DD1's rent, utilities, car insurance, and cat food (). She pays for her food, books, etc. Once or twice a semester we drop a carload of food.
> 
> DD2's costs are on us as well. She's a lot closer to us than DD1 so every couple weeks we drop food. No car yet - next year she may get my Mini. DD1 has her car from undergraduate.
> 
> Both girls got their "dowry", a fair amount of Wayfair and IKEA furniture, and assorted kitchenware and linens.


I thought of you when I wrote my initial post, and even thought your response would be what it was! You are a very generous man! Somehow they have learned to make the best of it. Congrats!


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## Adelais

To be honest, part of me wants to be stingy, and "punish" her for her attitude and leaving before she is actually ready. We aren't wealthy, and live on one income since I still home school two children.

She came back to get a couple of things, and went to the fridge to help herself to meatballs, while her sisters were cooking supper for everyone. She is acting so entitled, it bothers me. I called her on it, and she snidely said, "I didn't know a little food cost you so much." I told her it was about her entitled attitude, not the cost of the food.

I asked her for her key, since she no longer lives here. She got upset. I told her to call ahead when she needs to pick up her bed, to make sure we are home. The new mattress and headboard were a gift to her this summer, because of her back, so we don't want her to leave it.

I feel sad and relieved at the same time. She needs some boundaries, but it feels bad.


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## frusdil

It sounds to me like you kicked her out when she was depressed...sleeping all day, up late, prickly attitude are all part of depression. I don't blame her for being resentful.

That said, she's an adult. If she chooses to live elsewhere she should pay her own way. My middle brother left home and got his first car at 16. Mum and dad loaned him half the cost of the car, which he had to pay back, and also pay his own rent, insurance etc. 

No one gave me anything either. I did all myself and while I made some mistakes along the way, I learnt from them.


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## Adelais

frusdil said:


> It sounds to me like you kicked her out when she was depressed...sleeping all day, up late, prickly attitude are all part of depression. I don't blame her for being resentful.


 I hope someday she can forgive me when she has lived life and its disappointments and stresses. I have my own issues, and can only take so much. I did the wrong thing. I should have kept my calm.


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## cc48kel

Our kids are still in HS. They both do very well in HS and are good athletes so we're hoping for some kind of scholarship. If not that is OK!! But I kind of expect them to stay home for the first year or 2 for community college then go off if they wish. It will be so much easier for them and for me too-- the peace of mind..

My parents handled each kid differently. But all of our basics was covered--I don't remember hearing any of my siblings complain about not having this or that in college or even worrying about something. 

It sounds like your daughter is in very good hands as far as roommates. And it's good that she is learning how much food costs and stuff like that.. Just see how this year goes and maybe she'll decide to move back home if it gets too hard on her.


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## Adelais

cc48kel said:


> Our kids are still in HS. They both do very well in HS and are good athletes so we're hoping for some kind of scholarship.


Schools don't tell you this, but a person is allowed to take (and pay for) the ACT test up to 12 times. Some schools take the highest scores from all the tests. Even if the test costs $50 each time, that is not so much money compared to paying full tuition for 4 years. If all parents and students knew this, there is no reason any motivated and intelligent child should not receive an academic scholarship of some kind. I don't know what the limit is for the SAT.

I told my daughter that I would continue to pay for her ACT tests as long as she improved in one area. It took her 4 tests to receive a full ride. Of course she reviewed her math skills, and studied how to take the tests, on You Tube.

eta: Just checked on the SAT. One can take it as many times as one wants, however only the last 6 test scores are sent to the College Board. 

Just taking these tests over and over without studying or learning techniques on how to take the test are a waste of money. Studying for these tests is grueling, and it takes dedication and commitment.


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## cc48kel

I hear about the parents changing the room once kids move out.. I wouldn't do that.. Many kids get upset I think.. When I went away to college, I came back after my degree. Maybe i'm odd but I did. I needed time to look for a job and just be at home!! They were happy to have me back! Your won't lose your daughter, just let her do her thing and she will come back to you. I did that as well with my mom!! 

While going to college, my parents kept up with my car and insurance.. I didn't have a cell phone. Once I graduated and started working, I bought a new car and paid the insurance. Since my college was practically paid for, they would send some money every now and then. I wasn't a 'spender' but it was nice to have. They would also call most weekends and check up on me.


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## Aspydad

Araucaria said:


> I don't think I am ready for this. She has been difficult the last year, but all I can think of is the beautiful, sweet, loving child and teenager she once was. I don't want to lose her as an adult.:crying:


Has your daughter been to a Psychiatrist? Step one is diagnosing why she is depressed. Talks of suicide is not normal and is very alarming.

I do not know what is wrong with your daughter - but, my wife and I have been through what you are going through. Here is our experience so far:

For our daughter, it turned out that she as ADHD - and it was not until after her first year in college that we discovered this. It was not simple in getting this diagnosis (and it did cost us a few thousand dollars I would estimate) - she was having panic attacks her first year of college - so the psychologist prescribed medication for that thinking she had an anxiety disorder. Problem was - if someone does not have that and has ADHD instead - the meds make the ADHD worse - which is what happened - of course we did not know that at the time. So we send her off for her second year of college and within a few weeks she ends up in the hospital (she was 9 hours away from us) and she was in bad shape - could have died - we found out that she was going out drinking (even though she knew that it was dangerous with the meds she was on) but of course - she had ADHD and she did compulsive things. Anyway - she had to withdraw from school and come home - we got her back into the Psychologist and he determined at that time that she had ADHD. The only reason she made it through high school successfully, was that my wife stayed on top of her - and managed her - when she went off on her own, she could not function. 

So we kept her home her second year of college - she got a job and worked 20-30 hours a week and took a few community college classes - took her ADHD meds and learned to function - we knew she had to learn to manage her time so we laid back - and we were supportive of her - but, we watched and if she started reverting to her old ways - we would sit her down and discuss. It helped that she wanted to get better - it was not a pleasant experience when her life was out of control. 

Last year, she went off to a new college- 6 hours away - changed majors to something that is very difficult - and made it!! She actually made a 3.2 GPA (she had a 2.2 GPA her first year majoring in something allot easier - she had a 4.2 in high school and made 29 on her ACT - she is very smart so 2.2 is way below what she should do) and is very happy. She is now in year two of this new major and is excelling again.

Here is what we told our daughter as she was going through the very low time in her life - we love you; we will pay to get you help; we will support you - but, the deal is - You will follow the treatment program; you will work when you do not go to school full time; as long as we support you (buy you clothes, food, roof over head, provide car, car insurance) Mom and Dad are the head of the house - and you are still the kid - so we make the rules - which are - no drinking (ADHD meds do not work with alcohol); you will pay for half of your college (by student loans or by work) plus any misc expenses will be paid by your work; if you revert back to old lifestyle (no organization, not cleaning living space, staying in bed all day and skipping class, etc) support stops for car, insurance, college, etc. We did not threaten specifically to throw her out - but, she knew that we would go that way if we were disrespected. We had always planned on paying for our kids education - 100% - but, after what we went though with my daughter (threw good money away for the first few years) we decided that our kids need to have skin in the game - so 50% is what it is.

Good luck - I hope you guys figure this out.


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## turnera

Here's some basic psychology for 20 year olds. We take for granted what is handed to us. We expect more. We value what we have LESS. We expect it to keep coming. We typically have little drive to succeed because we know the money keeps flowing.

I was lucky cos DD27 was very driven to graduate college. But she still had rules. As long as you're doing well in school, we'll help out however we can. But we split the loans on her school. I had saved $20,000, thinking it was enough - it was enough to cover her first year!

So I told her she'd have to take out loans for the rest ($60K). I had planned on paying for half the loans, but I didn't tell her that until she graduated. So she went through school assuming she'd have $60K of loans. (and that was the cheapest school in the state!)

But she knew very well that if she quit college, there was only one way she could come back home - to be working a full-time job and paying us rent.

Her friends, whose parents pretty much let them have a revolving door home, turned out to not accomplish much of anything. Out of about 30 kids, one kid had two babies and went back to get a 2-year dental tech degree and one kid is just now (8 years later) getting his bachelor's degree. The rest of them? Accomplishing nothing. Because their parents 'worried about them' and didn't want them to stress out. 

Think about it. For the last 200-300 years, nothing was handed to us so we felt compelled to accomplish - or die. And we did just fine. Nowadays, when kids have to be driven to school, aren't pressed to have jobs to pay for high school crap, aren't pushed for fear of stressing them out - they're all getting stressed out!

It's accomplishment that instills courage, ability, pride, strength, and drive in people.

You're selling your daughter short.


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## Adelais

Aspydad said:


> Has your daughter been to a Psychiatrist?


She hasn't been to a Psychiatrist. I wanted to take her to a counselor last year, but she refused. She said she "didn't need someone psychoanalyzing her, getting in her business, etc., and she didn't need a pill." I believe she has a form of ADD, the "girl" type, where they daydream. She was a good (homeschool) student, conscientious, but very fearful when we were in a co-op and she had to present something to the class. When she had to be in a piano competition, and even just a recital, she was very nervous. She hid it well, but inside she was a wreck. She is smart and beautiful, but lacks focus and confidence in some situations. She is not a total rebel, doesn't drink, hasn't had a boyfriend (her choice), and has a group of quality friends. She has always picked loyal, grounded people as friends.

TBH, I believe that she just didn't want to grow up, she says she loved her childhood, and didn't want to grow up when she hit adolescence. Now that adulthood is being thrust upon her, she is not sure what that looks like, so she is overdoing it. Kind of like a new driver that overcorrects when they see a hazard in the road. When she feels adult, and realizes she is actually doing it, she will calm down in her reactions to me and home. Her housemates aren't going to put up with her in areas that matter to them. LOL She'll realize that her parents weren't unreasonable, but were kind of nice.

Her housemate told me today that she got a part time job yesterday. Humiliating to be told about my daughter from her housemate and not from her. Daughter was not at church because she had a job babysitting for someone at our church. Everyone knows about her but me. Deep breath...I'm the mother, and I love her and I can do this...


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## Adelais

turnera said:


> You're selling your daughter short.


Can you explain? 

I kicked her for a month for not towing the line. While she was out she went to the Dr. for her back, saw a therapist, and began (finally) applying for jobs, although she didn't get any offers. (She worked 2 jobs last year when she was in school. One ended when school ended and she quit the other because it hurt her back.)

Maybe you mean I don't believe in her? 

I am worried how she will handle all the stress (again.) She didn't do well emotionally when she was couch hopping. At least now she has a place she can sleep (and wants to be.) Maybe she won't be under as much stress. IDK. 

If she loses her scholarship she might feel under a lot of stress again, because she doesn't want to have a "going nowhere job" in her words. She has this impression that the only way to succeed is to have a degree. (Her dad has a degree and I have 2) I have always told her that not everyone needs a degree to make a living, succeed or be happy. There are many paths. She won't listen, and is stuck on getting a degree, and yet she let herself fail last semester, after getting a 4.0 the first semester in all STEM courses. Maybe she was testing if we would still love her. Maybe she was showing the world and herself that she is not a "goody two shoes." I hope she figured that out, and gets good grades this semester and keeps her scholarship. I'm actually very proud of her for putting her nose to the grindstone to earn her scholarship, and getting her ACT score up to 31 points when all she needed was a 29. The study is boring and the test taking is grueling, but she kept at it until she got the score she needed. Most kids wouldn't take the test twice, but she took it 4 times. She has maturity and strength, but I don't know where they went.

Talked to her housemates today at church and asked them about why they aren't charging her rent yet. One said he was out of the loop, but his sister told me she had it covered, and they would work it out. She didn't seem worried at all.

I told her that I'm glad my daughter has a place to live, but since it is their arrangement, and I was left out of the loop, I don't know what role I will play financially. This is new territory for me. She said that's fine, she and my daughter will work it out. That is when she told me my daughter got a part time job yesterday, and was working another job today babysitting over the weekend.

The housemates traded rooms, so the brother is on one side of the house next to a bathroom, and the girls are on the other side of the house with a separate bathroom. Smart move. I'm glad they thought that through. Their grandmother talked to me today, and told me that if she had a college age child, she would want them to live with her grandchildren. She said I have nothing to worry about, she thinks the world of them. That's good to hear. I know a couple of grandmothers who are worried about their grandchildren's choices because they are drinking, fighting, in jail, etc.


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## Adelais

When I picked up my younger children from youth group tonight, which was held at the Pastor's kids (and now my daughter's) house, I dropped off several bags of groceries. It felt so awkward to hear her new housemate say my daughter is not "home" yet, because just yesterday, "home" was with her family. I have to let go. Her new home is where she is living.

I had never been to the house before, and under different circumstances I would have gone in a bit early to catch the last few minuets of whatever was going on before I took my children home. I stayed in the car, because I didn't want my daughter to feel I was invading her new space. I didn't know she wasn't home. When it was over, and my daughters saw that I was waiting outside, I got out and asked one of them to help me bring in the groceries, since I couldn't carry them all. I hope the awkwardness wears off.


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## turnera

I tend to look at people in terms of history. People in this century, past 150 years, have become SO SPOILED in terms of living life that it defies explanation. We no longer (at least in America) have to worry about how to eat. How to get shelter. How to get from one place to another. There's an answer for everything. A hundred-fifty years ago, if you didn't work (or marry someone who worked), you starved. If you didn't cut your own firewood, you froze. If you didn't plant your own food, you starved. If you didn't have value of some sort, you failed. 

Today there's a network for everything. And it's made people soft and weak and self-pitying and insecure. 

I also look at people in terms of psychology. The #1 way to be a happy person is to accomplish. Anything. Today's kids don't have to wake up at dawn, work the farm for 2 hours, then walk to school, then come home and do 3 more hours of chores. Instead, they wake up and eat breakfast, probably spend an hour on their cellphone, get driven to school (bus or, increasingly, parents' cars), come home and spend more hours on the cellphone, do homework, and start all over the next day. 

You said she got kicked out and lo and behold, she achieved! That is because we are all capable of achieving, and we would, if our parents didn't make life so easy for us. Demand so little from us. Give us so much.

When I raised DD27, I added a new chore to her list every year. By the time she graduated from high school, she cooked, did laundry, cleaned, fixed her car, mowed the lawn, made her own doctor's appointments, volunteered, did dishes, took out the trash, and more. Her friends? Next to nothing. I didn't do it because I'm lazy. I did it because my job was to prepare her for ADULTHOOD, not childhood. My job wasn't to make her childhood as happy as I could, though of course I tried, within reason. My job was to teach her how to make HERSELF happy. How to achieve things. How to fix problems. And every thing I gave her to do added to her sense of self. Gave her pride in herself. Helped her understand she could accomplish anything. Taught her not to rely on other people. When she was 12, I stopped buying things for her. I gave her an allowance and told her to figure out how to get what she wanted with that allowance or getting a job.

It's too late to take those steps for your daughter, but what you CAN do is step back and let her accomplish NOW. Let her face her fears, find solutions, and start feeling more sure of herself. She'll figure it out. All she really wants from you at this stage is pride and high expectations.


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## turnera

Araucaria said:


> When I picked up my younger children from youth group tonight, which was held at the Pastor's kids (and now my daughter's) house, I dropped off several bags of groceries.


When I graduated high school, my mom sold our house and moved away. She said I could move with her (to the middle of nowhere) or I could get a full-time job and an apartment. I stayed, got a full-time job, and started living like an adult. I had a little hand counter (before computers) that I used to add up the groceries I was putting in my cart. I had only $35/month to spend on groceries. So when I hit $32 on my counter, I started negotiating with myself on what I'd put back vs. what I still had on my list to buy. I grew up really quickly those first couple of years. But I still remember it fondly because I was proud of myself.

You may want to reconsider being her 'savior' in terms of her groceries. She's not going to starve. Let her figure it out.


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## john117

Cost benefit analysis is your friend. Do you really want your kid to be working or cooking while you're paying med school tuition? 

My girls never did chores at home. Their extra time was either study or relaxing. They both did great. DD1 figured out how to cook from YouTube and she's phenomenally good at it now. DD2... Hasn't burned the place down so it's good.


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## Adelais

turnera said:


> I tend to look at people in terms of history. People in this century, past 150 years, have become SO SPOILED in terms of living life that it defies explanation. We no longer (at least in America) have to worry about how to eat. How to get shelter. How to get from one place to another. There's an answer for everything. A hundred-fifty years ago, if you didn't work (or marry someone who worked), you starved. If you didn't cut your own firewood, you froze. If you didn't plant your own food, you starved. If you didn't have value of some sort, you failed.
> 
> Today there's a network for everything. And it's made people soft and weak and self-pitying and insecure.
> 
> I also look at people in terms of psychology. The #1 way to be a happy person is to accomplish. Anything. Today's kids don't have to wake up at dawn, work the farm for 2 hours, then walk to school, then come home and do 3 more hours of chores. Instead, they wake up and eat breakfast, probably spend an hour on their cellphone, get driven to school (bus or, increasingly, parents' cars), come home and spend more hours on the cellphone, do homework, and start all over the next day.
> 
> You said she got kicked out and lo and behold, she achieved! That is because we are all capable of achieving, and we would, if our parents didn't make life so easy for us. Demand so little from us. Give us so much.
> 
> When I raised DD27, I added a new chore to her list every year. By the time she graduated from high school, she cooked, did laundry, cleaned, fixed her car, mowed the lawn, made her own doctor's appointments, volunteered, did dishes, took out the trash, and more. Her friends? Next to nothing. I didn't do it because I'm lazy. I did it because my job was to prepare her for ADULTHOOD, not childhood. My job wasn't to make her childhood as happy as I could, though of course I tried, within reason. My job was to teach her how to make HERSELF happy. How to achieve things. How to fix problems. And every thing I gave her to do added to her sense of self. Gave her pride in herself. Helped her understand she could accomplish anything. Taught her not to rely on other people. When she was 12, I stopped buying things for her. I gave her an allowance and told her to figure out how to get what she wanted with that allowance or getting a job.
> 
> It's too late to take those steps for your daughter, but what you CAN do is step back and let her accomplish NOW. Let her face her fears, find solutions, and start feeling more sure of herself. She'll figure it out. All she really wants from you at this stage is pride and high expectations.


 @turnera

I love your post. She actually had a lot of responsibilities when she was home. Everything you said is why I homeschooled. She knows how to cook, bake bread from scratch, garden, do laundry, clean, study, budget, save, etc. She is lacking on things like fix a car, make appointments, get out and ask strangers questions to find out information. She was an amazing saver, and when she was kicked out, she discovered a couple of thousand dollars she had saved, which she lived on and is still living on.

Do you think I should just let her figure out her finances? That is what we did with our son when he moved out at 17. He was desperate to be on his own, and had a rough time because he was never a saver, or frugal. We let him figure it out, and just bought him groceries once in a while (no expectation on his part) so he didn't starve. He is doing very well now, at 22. He is not academic, but very intelligent and studies what he needs to to get the answers he needs. Twice he has bought a broken down car and a manual and got it running on his own. He knows more about cars than his dad!

I'm very proud of him. He has even apologized for some of the mean things he said to me when he was trying to make our lives miserable so we would want him to move out. Life has taught him a lot, and he now know we weren't bad parents, since he knows people with bad parents (drunkards, strip dancers, drug dealers, not present at all, etc.)


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## Adelais

john117 said:


> Cost benefit analysis is your friend. Do you really want your kid to be working or cooking while you're paying med school tuition?
> 
> My girls never did chores at home. Their extra time was either study or relaxing. They both did great. DD1 figured out how to cook from YouTube and she's phenomenally good at it now. DD2... Hasn't burned the place down so it's good.


How you raised your kids throws an interesting twist into the mix. You did everything for them, yet they took full advantage of it for the good. Other posters have let their children figure it out and learn from experience and they have also turned out alright.

We don't have the finances to furnish her (and her housemate's) house with furniture, buy her a car, pay her rent, give her spending money, etc. We are letting her take the furniture in her bedroom, which she grew up with and which is good quality (maybe a mistake for a college student LOL)

I may end up doing something in between what you and Turnera's parents did. Even if I could afford it, I don't believe I would go your route, due to principal and my children's personalities.


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## Adelais

turnera said:


> When I graduated high school, my mom sold our house and moved away. She said I could move with her (to the middle of nowhere) or I could get a full-time job and an apartment. I stayed, got a full-time job, and started living like an adult. I had a little hand counter (before computers) that I used to add up the groceries I was putting in my cart. I had only $35/month to spend on groceries. So when I hit $32 on my counter, I started negotiating with myself on what I'd put back vs. what I still had on my list to buy. I grew up really quickly those first couple of years. But I still remember it fondly because I was proud of myself.
> 
> You may want to reconsider being her 'savior' in terms of her groceries. She's not going to starve. Let her figure it out.


 @turnera, I hope I don't offend with this question, but it is a concern of mine. Do you think there is any link between teh way you had to make your own way and your choice of a husband?

I am concerned that if she is too poor, or perceives she is downtrodden, it will hurt her self esteem and she won't feel worthy, and will date the lower hanging fruit, since she perceives herself as that. (She is not dating at all and never has. When she gets to know a guy friend she is attracted to, she realizes she doesn't want to get any closer to him because she finds something wrong with him. However, she also says that she isn't good enough to date a guy, the kind of guy she wants to attract. I don't know what that is about. I'm glad that she isn't desperate to accept just any guy who asks her out, though. But there is no one good enough?)


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## turnera

Poorness doesn't affect your self esteem, not if you are accomplishing things. 

I picked my husband because of my FOO, my low self esteem as a child, my dad cheating and leaving us, getting raped, picking an abusive boyfriend who did a number on my head...a whole host of things.

If anything, my living on my own was the one shining beacon, my only one true time where I was able to be myself, take care of myself, and be proud.

And I hope I don't offend you either, but my first impression is that your daughter, for whatever reason, doesn't feel safe to tell you her truths. Whether it's religion, 'moral' expectations, judging, shaming who knows. But I'll tell you my experience with all of DD27's friends, through junior high and high school: the ones with the parents who pushed religion and righteousness and sinning...those are the ones who lied to their parents, never trusted their parents, and most importantly, rebelled against their parents. It's what I see your daughter doing. I can name almost a dozen kids who exhibited the same actions your daughter's doing, and to a person, it was because of their fear of being judged by their parents, being seen as 'not enough,' and, well, basically, living DOWN to their parents' expectations.

I'm in no way saying you're a bad mother. But psychology has an important part to play in how kids end up. For example, the two friends of DD27 who had the strictest and most religious parents went away to college and went crazy. They'd spent 8 years pretending to be what their parents said they had to be, and once they had 'freedom' in school, they couldn't NOT act out, cos they didn't know who they were. They'd spent all their time acting, not thinking. So they had no clue who they were.

That's why I say you're selling her short. Step back, let her process it, figure it out. Be supportive but don't make things easy. She needs to figure that all out on her own.


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## Adelais

@turnera,
I was very poor in college the first time around. I had a student loan, worked on campus and had no extra money after paying for books, bills and food. I never went clothes shopping during my college years. My senior year, I was still wearing what I wore my freshman year. I had no choice but to be a "grunge" type. I would have preferred to wear femenine, pretty clothes that were in fashion, but I mad lemonade out of lemons.

My daughter is not rebelling against our values. She is rebelling against having to do chores at home. Her new roommates are sincere Christians, who both have ministries. The female started an international ministry which she currently heads up. She also leads (by choice) the high schoolers and the college group. The son works at a non profit to put himself through school. I'm not worried about her hating her faith. She just doesn't want to be asked to do dishes or clean her room LOL. She thinks she is beyond that at 20 years old.

I'm not offended by your accusations. You don't know my daughter or me. I do have a short fuse, and I fail in my Christian walk in other ways regularly, but I know God made me with all my instincts and defenses, and He understands me and helps me do better over time.

I appreciate your candor. Everyone gets to have an opinion. We don't all share a collective brain. LOL


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## Satya

Coming from a slightly different angle, as a kid growing up I WANTED to do everything myself. Drove my mom crazy how much I'd just randomly do things on my own. I'll never forget the first time I took a shower. I was really little, came downstairs combing my wet hair (because I shampooed it too) and my mom flipped! Never do that alone! I was like "meh, I can do it alone fine" and never let her help me wash again.

There were plenty of things I would just try, then know I didn't want to do it. Driving was one. At 17 I just wasn't ready, knew I wasn't. Then I lived where I could walk everywhere for years, then moved and realized I needed a car. I was more that ready then.

Money has always been spent from my own earnings, unless it was for my education /books/some clothes. I wanted to pay my own way and still do to this day with my husband. We have joint for bills only, but my things are paid with the money I earn, as are his. I think an allowance helped me to learn to save for things I really] wanted. If I didn't have enough saved, then too bad, I didn't get it. My allowance would go up some if I got a good report card.

I cook because my father taught me how to, and then off I went, cooking everything I could. If someone wasn't around to teach me, I found the manual and read. I installed an entire stereo /entertainment center for my mom because she couldn't and SHE'S the engineer.

My mom worried the least about me compared to my autistic siblings, because of my nature and also because I was the oldest. While I think that people are capable of learning anything if they HAVE to, it makes a big difference if their attitude embraces learning new things.

And I am still learning new things every day.


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## Adelais

Satya said:


> Coming from a slightly different angle, as a kid growing up I WANTED to do everything myself.


That's awesome for a child, and scary for a parent. I was like that in some ways, and my son is like that in every way. Daughter who just moved out...not at all, at least until now. Hopefully she will take the bull by the horns now.


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## turnera

Araucaria said:


> My daughter is not rebelling against our values. She is rebelling against having to do chores at home. Her new roommates are sincere Christians, who both have ministries. The female started an international ministry which she currently heads up. She also leads (by choice) the high schoolers and the college group. The son works at a non profit to put himself through school. I'm not worried about her hating her faith. She just doesn't want to be asked to do dishes or clean her room LOL. She thinks she is beyond that at 20 years old.
> 
> I'm not offended by your _accusations_. You don't know my daughter or me. *I do have a short fuse*, and I fail in my Christian walk in other ways regularly, but I know God made me with all my instincts and defenses, and He understands me and helps me do better over time.


I'll tell you the single most important thing I did raising my daughter. She did something wrong, I brought it up to her, and I told her I wasn't judging her, I was judging her actions. 

I made it safe for her to tell me her truths. I proved to her that I wouldn't have a short fuse. I wouldn't yell or judge or criticize, but I would give advice. I made sure I was the one safe person she could go to. And she told me years later that that was the most important thing I could have done. Teenagers need to know their important person won't judge them, won't blow a fuse, and will stay safe to tell them anything they're feeling. 

What you've been explaining makes me think that she wants to feel safe with you, but she doesn't. And you bringing up the short fuse makes me wonder if that's why. She clearly doubts herself and feels compelled to act out certain things. Maybe this would be a good thing to talk about.


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## kag123

I have two kids with vastly different personalities. One who is a go-getter and wants her independence, and one who is slow to bloom and needs to be pushed off the edge of the cliff in order to move forward. It's difficult parenting him and making him do things he does not want to do, but I know it is for his own good. I'm a big proponent of the sink or swim approach. You have to step back and let them make their own mistakes at a certain point. Life is the best teacher at her age. 

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## Elizabeth001

Araucaria said:


> That's awesome for a child, and scary for a parent. I was like that in some ways, and my son is like that in every way. Daughter who just moved out...not at all, at least until now. Hopefully she will take the bull by the horns now.




Let her 


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## katies

I think the key is communication. When our kids were in first grade we told them they'd be paying half of their college expenses. They planned accordingly. We covered nearly every other thing (phone bill, car insurance) but I don't think I bought them clothes. And then they were off the dole the minute they graduated. The boys also worked but the girls were on athletic teams and couldn't. 
One thing I insisted on is that they move out when they started college. They didn't want to be at home anyway. They needed to make new friends and fit in at college. I guess I'm not understanding the live at home thing. 
They all graduated in 4 years and never moved home. I made it pretty uncomfortable for them to be here.


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## NextTimeAround

frusdil said:


> It sounds to me like you kicked her out when she was depressed...sleeping all day, up late, prickly attitude are all part of depression. I don't blame her for being resentful.
> 
> That said, she's an adult. If she chooses to live elsewhere she should pay her own way. My middle brother left home and got his first car at 16. Mum and dad loaned him half the cost of the car, which he had to pay back, and also pay his own rent, insurance etc.
> 
> No one gave me anything either. I did all myself and while I made some mistakes along the way, I learnt from them.


Also, I'm curious, OP, when you kicked her out, did you have any idea where she might go.


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## NextTimeAround

turnera said:


> I tend to look at people in terms of history. People in this century, past 150 years, have become SO SPOILED in terms of living life that it defies explanation. We no longer (at least in America) have to worry about how to eat. How to get shelter. How to get from one place to another. There's an answer for everything. A hundred-fifty years ago, if you didn't work (or marry someone who worked), you starved. If you didn't cut your own firewood, you froze. If you didn't plant your own food, you starved. If you didn't have value of some sort, you failed.
> 
> Today there's a network for everything. And it's made people soft and weak and self-pitying and insecure.
> 
> I also look at people in terms of psychology. The #1 way to be a happy person is to accomplish. Anything. Today's kids don't have to wake up at dawn, work the farm for 2 hours, then walk to school, then come home and do 3 more hours of chores. Instead, they wake up and eat breakfast, probably spend an hour on their cellphone, get driven to school (bus or, increasingly, parents' cars), come home and spend more hours on the cellphone, do homework, and start all over the next day.
> 
> You said she got kicked out and lo and behold, she achieved! That is because we are all capable of achieving, and we would, if our parents didn't make life so easy for us. Demand so little from us. Give us so much.
> 
> When I raised DD27, I added a new chore to her list every year. By the time she graduated from high school, she cooked, did laundry, cleaned, fixed her car, mowed the lawn, made her own doctor's appointments, volunteered, did dishes, took out the trash, and more. Her friends? Next to nothing. I didn't do it because I'm lazy. I did it because my job was to prepare her for ADULTHOOD, not childhood. My job wasn't to make her childhood as happy as I could, though of course I tried, within reason. My job was to teach her how to make HERSELF happy. How to achieve things. How to fix problems. And every thing I gave her to do added to her sense of self. Gave her pride in herself. Helped her understand she could accomplish anything. Taught her not to rely on other people. When she was 12, I stopped buying things for her. I gave her an allowance and told her to figure out how to get what she wanted with that allowance or getting a job.
> 
> It's too late to take those steps for your daughter, but what you CAN do is step back and let her accomplish NOW. Let her face her fears, find solutions, and start feeling more sure of herself. She'll figure it out. All she really wants from you at this stage is pride and high expectations.


Are you blaming the parents or the kids here for being so soft.

Because when I was in high school, I tried to work. But living out in the ****ing suburbs with no public transportation, the only I could get to work was to hassle my mother for a ride to work. That created more agro for my mother even though she ****ing complained about how much things cost.

You may want to take a holistic view to how society has evolved, particularly in the United States with its unique of urban planning that pretty much infantilises everybody (teenagers, young adults, the elderly, even a housewife) unless you own a ****ing car.


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## Adelais

kag123 said:


> I have two kids with vastly different personalities. One who is a go-getter and wants her independence, and one who is slow to bloom and needs to be pushed off the edge of the cliff in order to move forward. It's difficult parenting him and making him do things he does not want to do, but I know it is for his own good. I'm a big proponent of the sink or swim approach. You have to step back and let them make their own mistakes at a certain point. Life is the best teacher at her age.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


So you can relate. DD20 was always hesitant to do anything unfamiliar, excluding physical things, like bungie jumping, or mountain biking off a jump. When it came to interacting with people or filling out apps on the computer, or going into a room full of people for her PSAT, then her first ACT, she was terrified. I'm glad she is gaining her courage. I'm just sad she chose to move out, making college more expensive. We cannot support her in an apartment, and she is not asking for any $.



katies said:


> I think the key is communication. When our kids were in first grade we told them they'd be paying half of their college expenses. They planned accordingly. We covered nearly every other thing (phone bill, car insurance) but I don't think I bought them clothes. And then they were off the dole the minute they graduated. The boys also worked but the girls were on athletic teams and couldn't.
> One thing I insisted on is that they move out when they started college. They didn't want to be at home anyway. They needed to make new friends and fit in at college. I guess I'm not understanding the live at home thing.
> They all graduated in 4 years and never moved home. I made it pretty uncomfortable for them to be here.


She knew we hadn't saved for her college, and we couldn't afford to pay for it, so she made sure she got a full ride scholarship (tuition and fees). Regarding living at home, I personally know several kids (ex homeschoolers, and Christian btw) who are in college, or are working from home and who live at home. The ones in college also got full ride scholarships, and living at home is cheaper. The parents don't see them much due to classes, studying, and their social life. But home is where they keep their stuff and sleep. The ones who live at home and work, are either working in their parent's business, or are starting their own business, and aren't college types. They work hard, and have social lives, but don't consider their families a pariah, as society encourages. One family in particular has a son who is doing very well in a couple of business ventures. He is living at home and saving up so he can buy his own house and move out. I believe that is better than throwing away his money by renting. He saved up for a car in high school, and has a good head on his shoulders.

Actually, our daughter was fine with living at home until a public school teacher at our church told her last year that he thought all kids should move out at 18, and that those who live at home are losers. I couldn't believe it when she told me he said that to her. That started the seed in her head that she was a loser for living at home, and that she should move out.

Had she moved out at 18, and supported herself, she wouldn't have studied and taken the ACT 4 times and gotten her scholarship. She didn't start college until she was 19, because of her emotional maturity level. (Our son moved out at 17, and was much more mature than she is in many ways.) Had she moved out at 18, she would have been spending all her time working, and not had time to study and take the tests.

There are many ways to skin a cat. Unfortunately, people see one way, and think that is the only way, like that **** teacher who basically insulted my daughter.



NextTimeAround said:


> Also, I'm curious, OP, when you kicked her out, did you have any idea where she might go.


No, but I knew she had a lot of friends who cared about her, and a brother who also loves her. She lived with friends.


NextTimeAround said:


> Are you blaming the parents or the kids here for being so soft.
> 
> Because when I was in high school, I tried to work. But living out in the ****ing suburbs with no public transportation, the only I could get to work was to hassle my mother for a ride to work. That created more agro for my mother even though she ****ing complained about how much things cost.
> 
> You may want to take a holistic view to how society has evolved, particularly in the United States with its unique of urban planning that pretty much infantilises everybody (teenagers, young adults, the elderly, even a housewife) unless you own a ****ing car.


Fortunately, we live within 1/2 mile of her first job. College is also 4 miles away. She can get there on her bike if she wants to. In fact, that is what she is doing now, and plans to do until she gets a job to pay for her insurance again. Our son got around on his bicycle when he moved out. He rode 8 miles to work and back. I am very proud of him. It is not what I would have chosen for him, but he is definitely industrious, and my daughter has learned that too. When she was kicked out, and lived with him, he lent her is bike, since he now has a car.


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## turnera

> Are you blaming the parents or the kids here for being so soft.
> 
> Because when I was in high school, I tried to work. But living out in the ****ing suburbs with no public transportation, the only I could get to work was to hassle my mother for a ride to work. That created more agro for my mother even though she ****ing complained about how much things cost.
> 
> You may want to take a holistic view to how society has evolved, particularly in the United States with its unique of urban planning that pretty much infantilises everybody (teenagers, young adults, the elderly, even a housewife) unless you own a ****ing car.


I'm saying that to produce happy, healthy kids, don't give them everything. My daughter didn't have transportation, either, but she wanted stuff, so she went around offering to walk dogs or wash cars. She drew pictures to sell to other kids. She found ways to get what she wanted because she knew I expected her to figure it out on her own. So she did. And THAT is what made her self-assured, happy, confident, and less fearful - knowing she'd figure things out. It may not have been what she wished for, but she made do with what she _could_ achieve.

Araucaria taught her daughter she'd have to figure out her financing on her own, so she did. So now she's at the next step, and letting her explore this part on her own is the best solution for her daughter - to realize she can do it on her own.


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## Elizabeth001

NextTimeAround said:


> Are you blaming the parents or the kids here for being so soft.
> 
> 
> 
> Because when I was in high school, I tried to work. But living out in the ****ing suburbs with no public transportation, the only I could get to work was to hassle my mother for a ride to work. That created more agro for my mother even though she ****ing complained about how much things cost.
> 
> 
> 
> You may want to take a holistic view to how society has evolved, particularly in the United States with its unique of urban planning that pretty much infantilises everybody (teenagers, young adults, the elderly, even a housewife) unless you own a ****ing car.




I babysat, sat with the elderly and mowed lawns. 

Where there’s a will, there’s a way. 

But...you have to have the will. 



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## john117

I'm sure my girls could babysit for 30 years each to pay for college 

You have to look long term. If you can't pay for college, tell them ahead of time and help with financial aid info and stuff. 

If you can pay, lay out expectations for career, effort, and commitment ahead of time.

Help them find what they're capable of and how to get there.


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## Elizabeth001

I was referring to when I was much younger John. I started doing those types of things around the age of 12. I saved the majority of my money and bought a beater car almost as soon as I had my license. I was mainly responding to the previous post about not being able to work in a rural area without a car. 


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## NextTimeAround

Elizabeth001 said:


> I was referring to when I was much younger John. I started doing those types of things around the age of 12. I saved the majority of my money and bought a beater car almost as soon as I had my license. I was mainly responding to the previous post about not being able to work in a rural area without a car.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In our state, you could not own a car before the age of 18, so even if I had found the money to buy a beater car, my parents could still block the move.

I think my parents preferred that I didn't have a car, that would have created too much independence. If I had to always negotiate for a ride, that meant more control. In fact, I had to turn down invitations due to no transportation as my mother would bat her eyes and say sweetly, "I would love for you to go, but how will you get there...." Since my younger siblings had places to go too. Sometimes her tactic didn't work as someone would offer transportation. Then she would have create a new excuse as to why I couldn't go.

In any case, my parents made me want to leave home and not look back........ since apparently, that's the results that some of you parents are looking for.


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## brooklynAnn

Being a parent of two, I can understand everyone of you. My D20 is the one who would jump both feet in and turn back to make sure we are there then continue on. She actually did this when she was 7 in over 30 feet of water. This is how she approaches life. She is all in, full of passion and gusto. If she fails, it's an oh well at least I tried. Which works for her. 

My son 18 is more cautious. He needs to know what is going to be the outcome and how he is going to approach things. He needs to plan and have his safety net. I pushed him alot in school. I always had to behind him because he has a learning disability. Things were more difficult for him and not so easy. We had our hard times when I had to give him some tough love and point out to him what will happen if he does not finish high school. I pushed him into a leadership program, sent him to do an outdoor program and into an international exchange program. Because he needed to get out of his comfort zone of just playing Xbox. He excelled at everything. All he needed was a push. 

When it was time to choose the college he would attend...he could not make up his mind. He knew what he wanted to do, just not where. So, I choose his school. He is staying home to attend college. He is doing well so far and finding new friends. He is going out with his friends and being more social. I am happy and he is happy.

Different kids need different approach. My D will listen to reasoning but my son shuts down the moment you start preaching. So, his lessons comes in short responses. I just make sure I am aware of every teachable moment when I can impart something to him, of course keeping it short. I hope as he grows he will change and will open up more.

Your job as a parent will never be completed. Thats just life. KNow which battle to choose and how to let go will make life so much easier for you. Good luck and don't be too hard on her. Giving her abit of food will not break your bank. The important thing is that she knows and reminded that she is loved.


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## turnera

john117 said:


> I'm sure my girls could babysit for 30 years each to pay for college
> 
> You have to look long term. If you can't pay for college, tell them ahead of time and help with financial aid info and stuff.
> 
> If you can pay, lay out expectations for career, effort, and commitment ahead of time.
> 
> Help them find what they're capable of and how to get there.


I had saved up $20K for DD27's college, thinking that was a ton of money! Boy was I surprised when she finally applied and I learned that even at the cheapest school, that $20K would barely cover the first year. That's when I had to have the conversation that the rest would require summer jobs and loans. I always planned to pay half the loans, but I didn't tell her that until she graduated. So she was very frugal with money.


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## turnera

NextTimeAround said:


> In our state, you could not own a car before the age of 18, so even if I had found the money to buy a beater car, my parents could still block the move.
> 
> I think my parents preferred that I didn't have a car, that would have created too much independence. If I had to always negotiate for a ride, that meant more control. In fact, I had to turn down invitations due to no transportation as my mother would bat her eyes and say sweetly, "I would love for you to go, but how will you get there...." Since my younger siblings had places to go too. Sometimes her tactic didn't work as someone would offer transportation. Then she would have create a new excuse as to why I couldn't go.
> 
> In any case, my parents made me want to leave home and not look back........ since apparently, that's the results that some of you parents are looking for.


I think you're assuming that by saying I want my kid to be independent, I don't want her at home. She's always welcome to come back and stay - and pay rent. Or, when she was still in school, by being a full-time student. 

And you're using a case of an UNhelpful parent to compare against those of us who tried to be very helpful, albeit in different ways.


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## Elizabeth001

NextTimeAround said:


> In our state, you could not own a car before the age of 18, so even if I had found the money to buy a beater car, my parents could still block the move.
> 
> 
> 
> I think my parents preferred that I didn't have a car, that would have created too much independence. If I had to always negotiate for a ride, that meant more control. In fact, I had to turn down invitations due to no transportation as my mother would bat her eyes and say sweetly, "I would love for you to go, but how will you get there...." Since my younger siblings had places to go too. Sometimes her tactic didn't work as someone would offer transportation. Then she would have create a new excuse as to why I couldn't go.
> 
> 
> 
> In any case, my parents made me want to leave home and not look back........ since apparently, that's the results that some of you parents are looking for.




In my case, leave home, you betcha! That’s a parents job...to teach their children to be self-sufficient adults who contribute to society. 

Come back home? Only one of my sons did briefly when he was transitioning out of the Marines and that was only for a couple of months. 

They are both very proud of the way I raised them and thank me often. We are extremely close and it is wonderful when they come over to VISIT  especially like this past weekend when they both make it over at the same time. 

My oldest son now has 3 children of his own and I’ll bet every nickel I have that he will raise his children the same way...to be independent as possible. 

He once asked me when my youngest was moving out that why didn’t I let him stay and pay rent. I told him that if “Sam” could pay me rent, he could pay someone else rent. lol 

“Sam” didn’t want to stay anyway and is glad to this day that he didn’t. We have an extremely close bond that I give part of that credit to, and he is so proud of the accomplishments he has made. I’m damn proud of him too!!



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## Adelais

I would love for any of my adult children to live at home, help pay off the mortgage and thus increase their inheritance (by paying rent) have a full time job, come and go as they wish, and pitch in with chores once a week on their own schedule.

I've lived abroad, and know families who have functioning adults living in the home, adding one more adult to help out with finances and chores. I think it is wonderful!

However if my child is 18 or older, pushing back, creating drama and not pitching in, they are welcome, in fact encouraged, to live somewhere else, where they (and I) can be happy.

That's what happened with my son (early though) and then my daughter. I thought she would weigh the cost and decide to not move out, but she decided that she would take the plunge. Now she gets to figure out how she is going to have time to study for college and keep a GPA of 3.5 to keep her scholarship, and work to pay her own living expenses.

We've decided to pay her car insurance, and that is it, so at least she can always get to and from work. We're still debating whether to keep her on our phone plan because twice she has forgotten to use WiFi and used up our data, and has run up the bill. I don't want to have to be asking her for money for her bill if she runs it up. Paying for her on our plan or asking her to find her own plan are our two choices to not have to ask her for money.

I'm more inclined to drop her from our phone plan, because her phone has been an addiction (IMO) for her since she got it two years ago. I know kids text, are on social media all the time, but IMO that is not a good excuse or a good thing. She has wasted a lot of time on her phone, and it has become a distraction for her. If she has to pay for her own phone and data, maybe its novelty will wear off.


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## LaReine

Araucaria said:


> I would love for any of my adult children to live at home, help pay off the mortgage and thus increase their inheritance (by paying rent) have a full time job, come and go as they wish, and pitch in with chores once a week on their own schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> I've lived abroad, and know families who have functioning adults living in the home, adding one more adult to help out with finances and chores. I think it is wonderful!
> 
> 
> 
> However if my child is 18 or older, pushing back, creating drama and not pitching in, they are welcome, in fact encouraged, to live somewhere else, where they (and I) can be happy.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happened with my son (early though) and then my daughter. I thought she would weigh the cost and decide to not move out, but she decided that she would take the plunge. Now she gets to figure out how she is going to have time to study for college and keep a GPA of 3.5 to keep her scholarship, and work to pay her own living expenses.
> 
> 
> 
> We've decided to pay her car insurance, and that is it, so at least she can always get to and from work. We're still debating whether to keep her on our phone plan because twice she has forgotten to use WiFi and used up our data, and has run up the bill. I don't want to have to be asking her for money for her bill if she runs it up. Paying for her on our plan or asking her to find her own plan are our two choices to not have to ask her for money.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm more inclined to drop her from our phone plan, because her phone has been an addiction (IMO) for her since she got it two years ago. I know kids text, are on social media all the time, but IMO that is not a good excuse or a good thing. She has wasted a lot of time on her phone, and it has become a distraction for her. If she has to pay for her own phone and data, maybe its novelty will wear off.




I got a phone at 12 and had to pay my own bill- it was prepaid though. I paid for it out of my "savings"- birthday money etc

My kid and stepkid ( I have 2 but we are doing phone for 1) will have to do the same


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## Elizabeth001

Araucaria said:


> I would love for any of my adult children to live at home, help pay off the mortgage and thus increase their inheritance (by paying rent) have a full time job, come and go as they wish, and pitch in with chores once a week on their own schedule.
> 
> 
> 
> I've lived abroad, and know families who have functioning adults living in the home, adding one more adult to help out with finances and chores. I think it is wonderful!
> 
> 
> 
> However if my child is 18 or older, pushing back, creating drama and not pitching in, they are welcome, in fact encouraged, to live somewhere else, where they (and I) can be happy.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what happened with my son (early though) and then my daughter. I thought she would weigh the cost and decide to not move out, but she decided that she would take the plunge. Now she gets to figure out how she is going to have time to study for college and keep a GPA of 3.5 to keep her scholarship, and work to pay her own living expenses.
> 
> 
> 
> We've decided to pay her car insurance, and that is it, so at least she can always get to and from work. We're still debating whether to keep her on our phone plan because twice she has forgotten to use WiFi and used up our data, and has run up the bill. I don't want to have to be asking her for money for her bill if she runs it up. Paying for her on our plan or asking her to find her own plan are our two choices to not have to ask her for money.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm more inclined to drop her from our phone plan, because her phone has been an addiction (IMO) for her since she got it two years ago. I know kids text, are on social media all the time, but IMO that is not a good excuse or a good thing. She has wasted a lot of time on her phone, and it has become a distraction for her. If she has to pay for her own phone and data, maybe its novelty will wear off.




Bingo!


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## 2&out

I've been very lucky on this. My 18 year old daughter recently moved out to attend college, my son left 4 yrs ago and is soon to graduate with a double major. I am a point blank type guy and not much the catering type. As a single parent I told them early on I'd do my best to make life pretty easy and give them lots of freedom as long as they kept their grades excellent, stayed out of trouble, were totally honest with me, and kept me informed. If they didn't I'd yank privileges so fast their heads would spin. Because I think they knew I meant it, they held up their end and it worked for me. I taught them how to care for themselves as far as laundry, cooking, managing finances, etc. I handed them both cars at 16, cell phones, had no curfew, and gave them just enough spending cash that they had to think and be careful how they spent it -- and I paid and still pay for it all. They are both are in college on full ride scholarships and work part time for play $ and extra clothes / stuff they want. They live the usual college way with several roommates in a modest rental.

I am sure this is not the right route for many kids but it was for mine. It involves a tremendous amount of trust and some risk likely higher than many parents are comfortable with. My kids are happy well adjusted young adults both highly motivated and kicking major ass. I couldn't be prouder.


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## 2&out

I will add that there were a couple bumps in the road. But with kids isn't there always a few. The no curfew thing did bite me once. Got to pick up daughter ferom police station and go to court for being caught out past the city 12 midnight curfew law. LOL. But she wasn't drinking or drugging or robbing anyone. I still wasn't to happy. She didn't hang out after midnight at Dennys after that ! hah.


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## Adelais

LaReine said:


> I got a phone at 12 and had to pay my own bill- it was prepaid though. I paid for it out of my "savings"- birthday money etc
> 
> My kid and stepkid ( I have 2 but we are doing phone for 1) will have to do the same
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


She has had to pay for her own phone from the beginning, she purchased my old phone from me for $50, when she was 17. Instantly she was looking at it all the time, and it hasn't changed since.

My son was that way too. It took life responsibilities and maturity for him to begin to see it as a tool and not his life.


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## Adelais

So, my husband and I have decided to pay for her car insurance and $12 phone charge, she doesn't have to reimburse us for any of it. If she uses up all our data, she has one week to transfer $ to our bank account to cover the overage, or we cut off the phone. Then I will invite her to come grocery shopping with me a couple of times a month.

We want her to succeed, not fall flat on her face. She can cover her rent, utilities, gas, clothes, bath supplies, etc. We aren't trying to get even with her, we love her. By allowing her to cover the things we have left for her to cover, she gets to feel her decision to move out, yet we are still helping her a bit, since she is in college and has to keep a high GPA to keep her scholarship.

If she loses her scholarship, all financial assistance from us stops and she gets to go to work full time. I'll still gift her a bag of groceries once in a while, and invite her over for dinner on the weekend.

What we're willing to do for her now is more than we did for our son, but he wasn't going to college, and was working full time and partying. All we did for him was give him a bag of healthy groceries once in a while, so he didn't starve. Beer only has so many vitamins! Now he works full time and goes to bed early so he can get up the next day and go to work again. He has cut out (most of) the partying. We're proud of him. He is much more mature and responsible than many young men his age, 21. He turned into a man, from a punk. He has never been fired from a job, and all his bosses have liked him and promoted him quickly. He only changes jobs when he sees one that offers him a new experience or more $. We're proud of him now, but we were holding our breath for the first couple of years! He texts me out of the blue sometimes with an "I love you!" Which blows me away, because he hated me when he was 16!

Thanks all for sharing what worked for you and your children.


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## Satya

turnera said:


> I'll tell you the single most important thing I did raising my daughter. She did something wrong, I brought it up to her, and I told her I wasn't judging her, I was judging her actions.
> 
> I made it safe for her to tell me her truths. I proved to her that I wouldn't have a short fuse. I wouldn't yell or judge or criticize, but I would give advice. I made sure I was the one safe person she could go to. And she told me years later that that was the most important thing I could have done. Teenagers need to know their important person won't judge them, won't blow a fuse, and will stay safe to tell them anything they're feeling.
> 
> What you've been explaining makes me think that she wants to feel safe with you, but she doesn't. And you bringing up the short fuse makes me wonder if that's why. She clearly doubts herself and feels compelled to act out certain things. Maybe this would be a good thing to talk about.


I agree with this wholeheartedly.


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