# Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta debate



## SimplyAmorous

*Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta debate*

I stumbled upon this Blog....







 7 Traits of a Real Man - One Fathers Quest to be a Better Dad 









It just captured the essence & spirit of How I personally view the very best of MEN...









One of the blog replies said this >>


> "This is truly a genderless list. If all of us could strive to be less self-involved and more outwardly tuned, we'd be the humans we all have the potential to be. Most importantly, the world would be a far better place for our children."


Now that I agree with .... Wanted to share this... 
(I added the quotes & my own little addition with *#8* & *#9* below)









*1*.... *Integrity* – Integrity is more than being honest. It’s a lifestyle set on striving towards moral excellence. Real men say what they mean and mean what they say. They are the same person whether or not others are watching. They are trustworthy, dependable, and unwavering.










*2*....*Compassion* – Compassion is sympathetic consciousness of others’ distress together with a desire to alleviate it. In other words, you feel compelled to help someone who is hurting. Men aren’t often viewed as being compassionate, but it is a trait that helps us to become more connected to the people around us. Real men turn their compassion into service and work to make the world a better place.










*3*.... *Confidence* – Real men are confident. Many people confuse confidence with arrogance and self-centeredness. Real men know the difference. Confidence is about being self-assured and self-aware. Confident men have faith in their abilities and knowledge. They don’t need to tear others down in order to build themselves up. They earn people’s trust with their radiant, inner strength. When a they walk into the room, everyone takes notice.

*4*....*Self-control* – Hardly a day goes by without a news report about some high-profile man who has been destroyed by sex, money, and/or drugs. Too many men lack self-control, but it is the foundation of a virtuous life. Self-control starts with focus and ridding yourself of distractions. Doing this isn’t easy because temptations lurk around every corner. Real men are able to tame their desires and channel that energy into positive pursuits.

“Whenever you're in conflict with someone, there is one factor that can make the difference between damaging your relationship and deepening it. That factor is attitude.” William James










*5*....*Perseverance* – Perseverance is the product of self-control. It is courageous resistance against difficult circumstances. Perseverance is only developed through trials. Real men endure the trials and emerge stronger. They never give up."

"Sometimes you must cross a bridge and other times you need to burn it. But, always keep building one and never lose your faith in life". ~Dodinsky. 










*6*....*Bravery* – Bravery is the courage to do what is right regardless of the circumstances. Nothing is ever accomplished with an attitude of passivity. Real men stand up in the face of adversity.

"Look at hopelessness in the face and say: "We are simply not meant to be together. Hold courage's hand and walk away". ~Dodinsky










*7*....*Humility* – Today’s breed of young men loves to let everyone know how much swagger they have. They thump their chests and proclaim to the world, “I’m a Big Deal. Look at me!” Real men understand the value of being humble and letting someone else’s light shine. They realize that humility is more endearing than self-importance.

Humility indicates that you are ridding yourself of the poison of self-centeredness. Besides, humility softens the blow when someone knocks you off your pedestal.
Acquiring all of these traits takes time and dedication. However, our society would benefit greatly if all men strove to possess them.

*8*.... *A Real Man has Charisma, Passion, & Reliability* ...A real man is not afraid to show his emotions - for he is secure in himself. A real man knows what he wants from life...and always puts his woman first. A real man knows how to treat his woman, and will go out of his way for her. You can put all of your faith in a real man, because he will not fail you. Although these type of men sound like they are from a fairy tale, they do exist. 
























*9.*...*Real Men Protect & Provide*. In the same way that most women are appear programmed to protect & nurture their children/loved ones.... Real Men are programmed to Protect & Provide for the women & children in their lives. Real men do protect women & our society should back them up on it. 

The physical-strength advantage that most males have over most females puts them at a huge advantage over women – advantage that, unfortunately, gets abused by some men. Thankfully, the majority of men are not like this -therefore we should be careful to not generalize treating all men as potential predators or evil.

“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” ~ Edmund Burke












Your thoughts .... your own Personal List .... Please share...


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## Holland

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

I am deeply in love with a real man or what I call a good man. I did not need to read your list to know that but it makes me so proud to read the list and be able to say yes, yes, yes to all of it.

I would also add that real/good men do not engage in or tolerate misogyny. 
Also a real/good man has a high EQ.


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## Enchanted

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

My husband has all of those qualities


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## Shadow_Nirvana

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

And if they don't have those qualities, they are Virtual Men!

Hooray REAL MEN!


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Shadow_Nirvana said:


> And if they don't have those qualities, they are Virtual Men!


No, it's just something to strive for...so long as one has breath. 

Surely I am not the only one who gets







of all the Alpha bragging / Gaming Praise/ & doormat Beta put downs on here... I suppose they have their place to get a man's neck in the door .... 
*but then what? * 

At the end of the day ...If you seek commitment at all with another....this = the backbone of any healthy relationship /family. Shouldn't all men strive for these particular characteristics?

Sure they fall short & each could pinpoint their area of struggle....IF they are honest with themselves ...a little *self awareness* can be empowering (though it may be debilitating to some I suppose)... a man's *Resiliance* will bear that out.

I pretty much think these types are on the Rarer side in this world... a man shouldn't have to hit midlife before we walks into the wall & learns these truths (seems lots of women want older men for this very reason)...

I'd even say many of us wives overlook a lot at times...we still see the very Best in our husbands 
(







will do that!)....we see that







....heard this song on the radio last night coming home ....thinking of such men (my husband among them)...I got chills, it's so exhilarating.....good men deserve our highest Praise. 

Beyoncé - Halo - YouTube


If anyone clicked on that link... Loved his opening >>



> Men were made to be bold, strong, leaders. However, our society has attempted to repress these traits. If you look at the way men (especially dads) are portrayed on TV, you’d think we were all a bunch of irresponsible, befuddled, nincompoops, who can only function with the help of a “smart” female partner, friend, or spouse.
> 
> Consequently, many boys are confused and have no idea what it takes to be a real man. They seek inappropriate role models and emulate the bad behavior that they see on a regular basis. Nothing could be truer in my opinion!
> 
> It is our duty as men, fathers, and responsible citizens to counter these negative images and raise a new generation of men who are respectful, loving, and willing to contribute to society in a positive way.
> 
> If we are to achieve this goal, we must start with improving ourselves. I started my journey towards self-improvement after my daughter’s birth. The greatest compliment that a father can get from his daughter is “I want to marry someone just like you.”
> 
> That kind of pressure forces you to examine your life and look for ways to improve.


Would any disagree?


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## ScarletBegonias

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

I think these are great definitions and points.But it should be stated even though it's probably already known,every one has their own personal definition of what makes a real man and even what makes a real woman.
I like them all except 9.of course.you had to guess that In our relationship,SO and I,we protect and provide for each other.He could protect me physically if he had to do it and I protect him emotionally because he's sensitive and easily hurt.


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## SpinDaddy

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

*Corny I’m sure, but still good edicts by which a man should conduct himself. IMHO.*

*Boy Scout Law*
A Scout is:•Trustworthy, 
•Loyal, 
•Helpful, 
•Friendly, 
•Courteous, 
•Kind, 
•Obedient, 
•Cheerful, 
•Thrifty, 
•Brave, 
•Clean, 
•and Reverent.​
*Boy Scout Motto*Be Prepared!​
*Boy Scout Slogan*Do a Good Turn Daily!​


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## Deejo

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

That dude sounds pretty alpha to me ... 

For the most part now I just relegate the term 'alpha' to a collection of behaviors that is well summed up by those characteristics.

I much prefer the term 'be a better man' than 'be alpha'.


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## romantic_guy

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Another great post SA. I especially like the picture and caption about romancing the same girl for the rest of her life. I guess that figures given my screen name!


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## mochadad

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Thanks for sharing my "7 Traits of Real Men" post and for the insightful comments. I'm looking forward to having some engaging conversations about marriage and manhood.

Frederick J. Goodall
Mocha Dad 
Mocha Dad
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/mochadad 
Facebook: Mocha Dad | Facebook
LinkedIn: Frederick Goodall | LinkedIn
E-Mail: [email protected]


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## waiwera

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



SimplyAmorous said:


> SA you just have THE best 'smileys' !!
> 
> Nice post too!


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



mochadad said:


> Thanks for sharing my "7 Traits of Real Men" post and for the insightful comments. I'm looking forward to having some engaging conversations about marriage and manhood.
> 
> Frederick J. Goodall
> Mocha Dad
> Mocha Dad
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/mochadad
> Facebook: Mocha Dad | Facebook
> LinkedIn: Frederick Goodall | LinkedIn
> E-Mail: [email protected]


Mochadad ~ I am so very confused.... how in the world did you find this thread of mine on the same day I posted it ? 

And I hope it's *OK* I used your Blog link & words with a little spicing (with quotes)!!

I've thrown around the idea of doing a thread on this subject for some time....... when I found your Blog... it spoke *E**V**E**R**Y**T**H**I**N**G* I was wanting to put down! 

I hope you'll stick around & share some of your *wisdom* here at TAM. Your blog is awesome :smthumbup:... 
I also enjoyed >>








25 Romantic Ideas for Valentine’s Day


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## 3Xnocharm

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Great post, SA! Now, where do I find one of these men????


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## Waking up to life

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

SimplyAmorous...I find your posts works of art to be admired. Not only in content, but in presentation. :smthumbup: I can't help but smile when I see all of your "decorations"...the glittery things, the silly emoticons, the pictures, the word art. 

Thank you for making me smile today...


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## SoxFan

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Well I like the list and I think they should all be characteristics we men should strive for but in reality living each one every day is next to impossible. I like to think that I have enough self awareness to know which ones I come close to on a regular basis and which ones I need to work on to better myself.


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## heartsbeating

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Sure they fall short & each could pinpoint their area of struggle....IF they are honest with themselves ...a little *self awareness* can be empowering (though it may be debilitating to some I suppose)... a man's *Resiliance* will bear that out.


I particularly liked what you wrote here and came to mind when I read the thread's title. Knowing one's limitations, and admitting his own failures, even if it's just to himself, taking that in his stride and making changes if needed; having self-awareness.

A real person is ...real. They're not perfect, they are flawed and real and continually learning.


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## Entropy3000

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Yes SA. You can call it a real man and I will typically call exactly what you posted a man of quality or a man of substance. Same thing. Nice post. I totally agree with it.


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## RandomDude

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



> I much prefer the term 'be a better man' than 'be alpha'.


Agreed.

This thread is a nice breath of fresh air, and I agree with others, I'm sick and tired of hearing about the two alpha/beta extremes when the truth is that human beings are much more complicated then that.

Thanks SA


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## Deejo

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Pablo said:


> I like this as a definition much more than I do the alpha/beta deal. I think the alpha stuff is too interspersed with PU game crap, etc.


I have come to terms with both. I suggest to most men coming out of failed marriages with their heads spinning, and find themselves thrust back in to the dating world, to read a Pickup Artist book ... not to become pickup artists but to understand that without doubt, dating is a social dynamic. And if you are oblivious to social dynamics you aren't helping yourself. Being aware that they exist, to me, was/is a very important part of becoming an integrated male.

As I have stated numerous times; Be who you are; unless being who you are prevents you from getting where you want to go.


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## Entropy3000

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Deejo said:


> I have come to terms with both. I suggest to most men coming out of failed marriages with their heads spinning, and find themselves thrust back in to the dating world, to read a Pickup Artist book ... not to become pickup artists but to understand that without doubt, dating is a social dynamic. And if you are oblivious to social dynamics you aren't helping yourself. Being aware that they exist, to me, was/is a very important part of becoming an integrated male.
> 
> As I have stated numerous times; Be who you are; unless being who you are prevents you from getting where you want to go.


I believe many of these men are NOT as you say being who they are. They are for whatever reasons repressing the man that they would be.

What SA describes is a man with positive alpha/beta traits. A good man and an alpha man are not the same thing at all. But as you point out many men who come here are supressing their own innate alpha qualities. 

These are men whose primary mode has been skewed. There are many causes of this. It can happen over an extended period of time. Role models can be helpful. Many men become isolated. TAM is a resource for many men.

Some of us feel that the primary mode should be an emphasis on beta qualities but the ability to invoke levels of alphaness on demand. I think some men lose this ability. They may not be aware they were doing it. But it gets supressed. 

Many men see issues in their marriage and make the wrong adjustments. Men are fixers. They want to believe they can control things. That if something did not work out well they can adjust themselves / adapt and make it all better. These men tend to do the wrong things. They take repsonsibility for issues an start losing self respect. They start upping their beta side and supressing the alpha even more.

This is why we talk alpha / beta. And frankly for me this is needed for men to speak with men to help guide them to the ideal that SA has posted. Sorry it bothers some. But really it is not for their consumption.

But what we see on TAM is skewed. Many men would never post on a site like this let alone ask directions. Other men are exceedingly selfish and apossibly abusive. We do tell some posters to do mire beta things. But again they are less likely to be posting here IMO. You have to have certain qualities as a man to even post here.

Men's hormones play into this a lot. We get older and we out on weight. That supresses testoterone. So we tell guys to get in shape to work on that and maybe more importantly improve their mental attitude. To gain self respect and confidence.

In the last 50 years we have been very focused with the evolution of women. All fine and good. But in educational settings and in the media we have seen men's roles skewed. This has an impact on our society.

There is also a real adaptation to take place. Many of us grew up being THE family provider. The family protector.


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Entropy3000 said:


> What SA describes is a man with positive alpha/beta traits. A good man and an alpha man are not the same thing at all. But as you point out many men who come here are supressing their own innate alpha qualities.


I went looking for that masterpiece post you did explaining this on >> 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/ladies-lounge/65710-alpha-males-tooth-fairy-2.html#post1377344 ... I wanted to RE -post it here ....
.........................................................










Entropy3000 said:


> Pure Alpha males are not leaders. Pure Beta men are not leaders. It takes a balance of the positive qualities to be a leader. There pure extremes will not occur in nature but it is a sliding scale.
> 
> The confusion is when folks want to view Alpha as superior to Beta and so on as a scale of a quality man and that is not what it is about at all. In fact magnitude comes into play as well. You can have two fairly balanced men with one of them posessing high Alpha and High Beta traits while the other posesses lower Alpha and lower Beta traits. They both have a balance but they are very different people.
> 
> A child is in a burning home and needs help :
> 
> An extreme Beta male cares very much for the child and only wishes someone could help the child. He is paralyzed by his own fear and lacks the confidence to be decisive and take action. He looks to others to save the child.
> 
> An extreme Alpha male has the capability to do something but is too selfish to risk their own well being.
> 
> *A quality man with high Alpha and high Beta traits of the right combination will be driven to action. They are compelled by their Beta feelings to invoke the Alpha within them. They get past the fear and show courage. They are decisive. They know that they are the child's only chance. They take the risk knowing they may not survive themselves. That is very Beta, but it is also very Alpha. The combination is what makes the man.*
> 
> A good leader cares about their people. They are strong for the group. There are not a lot of good leaders.


I consider this the best post I ever read -getting to the







of the extremes & how that plays out - on this subject in 3 years being at TAM...... :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Racer

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Good list. Rambling thoughts:

Unfortunately... the boy scouts like myself can find ourselves here. People are generally selfish. “Good will” is used like a free handout. Being used goes hand in hand with those traits. Setting boundaries is a must. Yet... those boundaries are tested against those very ideals... often by family members and spouses. When we stick to them; We are perceived as ‘bad’.

Integrity is called into question: “If you were a good husband you’d let me.....”

Compassion becomes “uncaring” because you have boundaries and aren’t comfortable with that. (Also why integrity is attacked). “I’m sad/angry/depressed that you won’t let me go out with friends... Don’t you care about me and my happiness?” “How could you lock me out of the bank account?”

Self-control... “I know it’s been a month since we’ve had sex. You keep trying. That is all you think about!” “I’m sorry I didn’t get home til 3am.. But you have no right to be angry that I was having fun!” (I just want to go berserk, but a good man doesn’t do that does he...)

Perseverance... No sex, kissing, etc. for 11 months. Watching your spouse drift away and still trying... Is this really a good trait? When is it ok to just go?

Bravery... Continue to confront a cruel, vicious, vindictive wife knowing it won’t ever be pleasant, yet holding onto a belief that she will see the error of her ways and change. Continuing to defend her, face challenges and strive on when you really just want to curl up and die. Is this a good trait?

And on and on and on.... All those traits allowed me to be emotionally tortured for years. My wife was the worst. But you can add a hundred other people who recognize what you stand for and use it to get what they want. The buddy who calls you to help him move. The alcoholic sister inlaw who needs a place to stay. The client who wants a bit more than he paid for. The church, government, associations, organizations, groups, etc... who call on you because you want to help. Always giving more... receiving less and less. It murders the boy scout’s soul over time. 

Being used, thrown away, etc. go along with that belief system. So I’ve become harder, steely, withdrawn, etc. That has compromised my integrity. Sort of the darker hero types in tragedies now; The Dark Knight, ‘90's Superman (government pawn), etc. Some die or kill themselves due to that turmoil: Hector (trojan war killed by Achilles defending his brother’s honor), and my wife’s EA partner (good guy that every woman used up including my wife). That ‘ideal’ is still down there in me... he’s just be tortured into something new and full of inner conflict. 

I believe the boy scout in all of us has been through those gates in varying degrees. Most of us now have conflicting thoughts and a inner-struggle to define who we are now. Those nobel traits were used against us quite often... Are they really good things or do they cause us pain and heartbreak? There are many out there who use this stuff against us to manipulate for their own benefit. People are selfish; They will use you. Those ideals need to stay as ideals... being that person sucks.


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## Deejo

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Some of the most straightforward advice I prescribe to recovering Nice Guys is, "Learn how to be selfish."

And it makes them cringe.

The concept of it goes entirely against the framework they have built that leads exactly to the feelings you very clearly outline above.

Much of it goes back to that need to be liked. Being selfish isn't nice.

It may not always be nice, but it is most certainly necessary.

Once men get a sufficient taste of respect, being liked becomes a pleasant corollary.

A well integrated man understands that in living his life, and following his own personal code, at some point is not going to please everyone.

The person you should be concerned PRIMARILY with pleasing, is yourself. If you can't do that and feel good about, you aren't much worth a damn to anyone else.


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## Ikaika

*Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise &amp; Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta debate*

"I will certainly strive for these in best way possible, but as a human I know my own frailties and carnal weakness will sometimes cause me to stumble". I would like to add no man is an island, we are and have always been a gregarious species:

What SA wrote is great and have no characteristics to add, but I would say it is not always easy to have these characteristics on ones own. It is important the we men have mentors (not Hollywood images, someone we know and knows us) and at some point be mentors to help us and keep us accountable to these attributes. Left to our own devices we will fail in all these areas.


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## Racer

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Deejo said:


> Some of the most straightforward advice I prescribe to recovering Nice Guys is, "Learn how to be selfish.".


It is good advice. 

I’d also add that they should embrace all of themselves as even the so called negative aspects serve a purpose. There’s a reason you are angry and shouldn’t ignore that reason to focus on subduing the anger. Pay attention to your emotions. The ‘integrated male’ is a nice balance. Setting your own boundaries is also massively critical to finding that balance. Most those negative emotions happen when boundaries are crossed with you or you violate them yourself.

Today alone I’ve helped a stuck wheelchair lady, held open doors, and ripped apart an engineer who violated my boundaries (bully approach stuff). Also negotiated a contract, told someone who wanted to rent space they ‘weren’t a good fit’ (ignoring the money they were throwing at me), calmed down a panicked staff member, worked through a trigger, and goofed off online here. 

Neither all nice or all bad or even totally productive. Yen/yang. No shame, or guilt, or looking for a pat on the back (though appreciated and acknowledged those that did). Tomorrow will be dealt with as it happens too. Might even be fun since that engineer will be meeting on-site with me ..


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Racer said:


> Good list. Rambling thoughts:
> 
> Unfortunately... the boy scouts like myself can find ourselves here. People are generally selfish. “Good will” is used like a free handout. Being used goes hand in hand with those traits. Setting boundaries is a must. Yet... those boundaries are tested against those very ideals... often by family members and spouses. When we stick to them; We are perceived as ‘bad’.


 Racer, from all I have heard of your story...it's so disheartening....

There comes a time, after bad deliberate Treatment that is clearly UNDESERVED.....you do NOT worry about looking bad.... this person needs PUT in their place.. and told they are in the wrong... Conflict is OK....you see....there is an inordinate EVIL in those who carelessly take advantage of GOOD PEOPLE... to know and understand this fact and NOT allow it to go forth is your 1st MOVE....after all GOOD MEN conquer evil.. they stand up to it. 

We make judgements every day on ourselves and others... to be FAIR in those judgements...Well we need this..... It seems you have allowed this woman to take the reigns & slowly destroy all that was good within you. 

I think far too many are selfish and don't see their own hand...what a shame... WE can not worry about their response in that....We can't change anyone else... but you can Stand TALL for yourself, you have that right, noone can take that from you....unless you are locked in a cage, a war prisoner. 



> Integrity is called into question: “If you were a good husband you’d let me.....”


 What is she rambling about... and do you agree with her...and if not...WHY NOT... spell it out to her as heartfully as you possibly can, if she continues to be a Wi*ch about it...You are going to have to change the rules of this game she has captured you in & allowed to go on...



> Compassion becomes “uncaring” because you have boundaries and aren’t comfortable with that. (Also why integrity is attacked). “I’m sad/angry/depressed that you won’t let me go out with friends... Don’t you care about me and my happiness?” “How could you lock me out of the bank account?”


 If she is ignoring / frustrating your sexual needs / withholding love... how dare her to feel she can demand your staying home with her...WHY ?? Seems the *the 180* would be a good starter for you. 

And if she has shown herself not able to live within the budget....(I am assuming here)..for what is best for the running of the family....you have every right to take control of your $$...if you are the earner...you should be Lord over it. 



> Self-control... “I know it’s been a month since we’ve had sex. You keep trying. That is all you think about!” “I’m sorry I didn’t get home til 3am.. But you have no right to be angry that I was having fun!” (I just want to go berserk, but a good man doesn’t do that does he...)


 I wouldn't except the best of men to have self control in this situation..she was out till 3am??? Doing what [email protected]#$%^& 

We are only human after all... fresh & blood with needs & cravings....if you are not being treated lovingly with a healthy satisfying sex life...you are not going to function as you should -your mind... will be exploding often, frustration your daily cup. If not , you would be a Zombie..a man needs HOPE too, something to look forward too, a desired Goal.. to manage any of these characteristics.. 



> Perseverance... No sex, kissing, etc. for 11 months. Watching your spouse drift away and still trying... Is this really a good trait? When is it ok to just go?


 Racer, really....why do you stay.. I know, I know.... the kids..

There has to be a better way.... You have nothing to work with ....but a cold lifeless ungiving uncaraing, unwilling roommate......She has tied your hands behind your back..and you let her do it! 

It's time to upset this apple cart... ...you have that right, just be prepared to put ACTION behind your words, as a man would. Show her this time you mean business. We only have one life.... you deserve better. 



> Bravery... Continue to confront a cruel, vicious, vindictive wife knowing it won’t ever be pleasant, yet holding onto a belief that she will see the error of her ways and change. Continuing to defend her, face challenges and strive on when you really just want to curl up and die. Is this a good trait?


 People like your wife need LEFT.. .to hit the gutter...

Can I ask you something about her... was she a spoiled little princess growing up, got everything she wanted from Mom & Dad and didn't have to lift a finger...so she went through life just taking advantage of everyone... how did she come to be this vindictive cruel vicious woman...what drives this ? 



> And on and on and on.... All those traits allowed me to be emotionally tortured for years. My wife was the worst. But you can add a hundred other people who recognize what you stand for and use it to get what they want. The buddy who calls you to help him move. The alcoholic sister inlaw who needs a place to stay. The client who wants a bit more than he paid for. The church, government, associations, organizations, groups, etc... who call on you because you want to help. Always giving more... receiving less and less. It murders the boy scout’s soul over time.


 Here is my moto in life.. I have lived with this since I have read this wonderful book on Boundaries ...







Boundaries: When to Say YES, When to Say NO, To Take Control of Your Life 











> Having clear boundaries is essential to a healthy, balanced lifestyle. A boundary is a personal property line that marks those things for which we are responsible. In other words, boundaries define who we are and who we are not. Boundaries impact all areas of our lives:
> 
> *Physical boundaries* help us determine who may touch us and under what circumstances -- Mental boundaries give us the freedom to have our own thoughts and opinions --
> 
> *Emotional boundaries* help us to deal with our own emotions and disengage from the harmful, manipulative emotions of others --
> 
> *Spiritual boundaries *help us to distinguish God's will from our own and give us renewed awe for our Creator -- Often, Christians focus so much on being loving and unselfish that they forget their own limits and limitations. When confronted with their lack of boundaries, they ask: - Can I set limits and still be a loving person? - What are legitimate boundaries? - What if someone is upset or hurt by my boundaries? - How do I answer someone who wants my time, love, energy, or money? - Aren't boundaries selfish? - Why do I feel guilty or afraid when I consider setting boundaries?


After I read this book years ago, I got it clear in my head that I would DO NOTHING -for anyone if I knew I was going to whine, bi*ch / moan about it afterwards......and have a resentment spring in me ... if I wasn't prepared to do it WITH my heart ....not expecting in return....but feeling good about it- because it was simply THE RIGHT THING TO DO .... then I'd lay my boundary out there.. 

If my friends, husband (never an issue with him).... my family.... whatever/ whoever, had an issue with that... FINE...let them dislike me... Frankly I didn't care, cause if they did... they'd just mozy on to use someone else they could leech off ...... .let them go.....good riddens... who needs those sort of friends...

Can't say I have ever lost a friend over this.. It was a little awkward at times but I've never been afraid to say NO... I think the husband likes to let me do it -even sometimes, I don't care, I'll look like the bad guy. SO what. 

When you know deep inside.. you are still a damn good person ....with ALOT to give ....give to those who DON'T ABUSE this...might get a  in return, a little gratitude...this is the way it is meant to play out.... 

Many of these people were never taught proper boundaries with others in their youth, so they grow up boundaryless adults preying on others who will allow them to leech on.... It's just not OK. 



> Today alone I’ve helped a stuck wheelchair lady, held open doors, and ripped apart an engineer who violated my boundaries (bully approach stuff). Also negotiated a contract, told someone who wanted to rent space they ‘weren’t a good fit’ (ignoring the money they were throwing at me), calmed down a panicked staff member, worked through a trigger, and goofed off online here


 Seems outside of your marriage, you got a GREAT handle on things.

.


----------



## Entropy3000

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

SA, you are too gracious but thank you for getting where I am coming from on the matter.

Your enthusiasm for your marriage I find compelling and very inspiring and you bring a special spirit to this forum that is beyond measure. You bring a much needed positivity to all.

Thank you


----------



## Racer

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Racer, from all I have heard of your story...it's so disheartening....
> ....


Good thoughts... setting some things straight. I’ll add some new perception of the ‘boy scout’ and why some of us are that way.... We saw the devil inside at a young age and were ashamed of ourselves (or even others). What better way than to strive to prove to ourselves we aren’t ‘bad little boys’? Sort of like building up ‘good karma’ and self-worth by doing things you value and are ‘the right thing’. Nice; Safe. Everyone praises him. Just keep in mind though; I know the devil is inside.. Locked up in the little box. 

My wife... A lot closer to how I’d describe myself than I’d like to admit. She carries demons too. We did start of really, really good. Not issue free though. Sucks looking back; If I’d understood her demon, things could have been avoided. It wasn’t bad though... mostly revolved around ‘control issues’. 

Then..... the ‘event’. Both our demons triggered. Hard to explain; Almost like we saw our son, and remembered why we each carry our demon. Both fighting to ‘save him’ from having to live with a demon inside.... She lost reason then.

From there.... guerilla warfare; Five years of it. Quiet, then attacks.. Loving, then hate. Big swings in emotions due to the inner-conflict. Both were doing it, just differently. She was less subtle and tore through my insecurities and where I questioned myself... I hung on tight to the “boy scout” like it was my life raft, but ... I like this phrase from a song: “I feel the monster caged inside of me, screaming through my bones” and the boy scout screaming “I am not like that! I won’t be that!”. 

Skipping forward; False R... I opened the box and embraced the monster like an old friend. That monster allowed me to say those things, and tear through her. Pushing her further and further down into the pit. Demon against demon until both were revealed. Then came ?understanding?.... broken dolls; hence my avatar.

Her demon stems from what was done to her. Mine from what I did (or wanted to do) to others and punished myself over. You might even say, part of my staying has to do with feeling like I need to be punished for being a ‘bad person inside’... But it does come back to kids; I don’t want them to carry demons.

Three years now we’ve been picking through the fragments... We’re doing pretty good. The boy scout is now ‘tempered’; I’m not running from myself anymore. Neither good nor bad. I just am.

Btw; Not crazy or really rotten inside. That’s what bugs me the most. Just sort of demonized for having any faults or ‘un-pure thoughts’. Take porn, masturbation or objectifying a woman... Thinking along those lines resulted in me feeling terrible about myself. I’ve done that to myself as long as I can remember; I shudder remembering playing doctor and stealing my Dad’s playboys when I was 1st grade or so... So run Racer to be a ‘boy scout’ and alleviate the guilt! The farther I went down that ‘boy scout’ path, the more I felt like a fake... because I do have those thoughts and have occasionally acted on them particularly in HS (which sometimes got a “slap in the face” reinforcing that bad guy belief and self-shaming)... Ugh... complex.

Make better sense?


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Racer said:


> Btw; Not crazy or really rotten inside. That’s what bugs me the most. *Just sort of demonized for having any faults or ‘un-pure thoughts’.* Take *porn*, *masturbation* or *objectifying a woman.*.. Thinking along those lines resulted in me feeling terrible about myself. I’ve done that to myself as long as I can remember; I shudder remembering playing doctor and stealing my Dad’s playboys when I was 1st grade or so... So run Racer to be a ‘boy scout’ and alleviate the guilt!
> 
> The farther I went down that ‘boy scout’ path, the more I felt like a fake... because I do have those thoughts and have occasionally acted on them particularly in HS (which sometimes got a “slap in the face” reinforcing that bad guy belief and self-shaming)... Ugh... complex.
> 
> Make better sense?


 Oh Racer... .. I feel you was done very wrong by your parents - in their handling of a young boys sexuality...I am so convinced *SHAMING* for these desires ...that hormonally come on with a RAGE for boys...is one of the worst ways to handle this... it may force you to play the "good boy" act...but it steals your understanding of what your body is going through....you say you found your Dad's stash....around 1st grade. I can say..."me too"... I found the glorious "Joy of Sex" book when snooping in my parents Bedroom closet. Kids will do that! The curiosity of children. The finding is not what destroys , it is the shaming. 

I would think your Father was easier on you than Mom ?? After all, generally Dad's understand the hormonal influence on their sons - beings they lived it & was tortured in this same way .... beings males have have 10 X's ++ the testosterone cursing through their veins over females. 

.... I would NEVER demonize you for what you have expressed here......
* It's not Satan....it's "Testosterone" *! 

I'm convinced some religionists are near Insane...they pout this purity Gospel so damn loud...Lust.. better to pluck out your eyes ! What a lovely thing to teach our youngsters. So all fantasy is satan led... Really now. So goes all the JOY in living, might as well join a convent. One reason I will never be a believer like that again. 

Did you go out molesting anyone ?? Did you stick it in Suzy next door? Did you take girls out, tell them you love them, screw them & never call them again? If not... if all you did was fantasize & get off.. .sorry.. I think you are as human as the rest of us ...and frankly...a huge cut above....and a wonderful man.

If I am recalling your story correctly Racer.... you've only been with your wife...and on top of this, you have very strict boundaries with other women. The guilt is pathetically misplaced. You need a new mindset -in my opinion... this one has only harmed you, belittled you, stricken you with feeling caged...made you feel as a mouse, not a man..understanding his own sexuality & being able to express that. 

Ya know we have 5 sons... the last thing I would EVER do to them when they are going through puberty is *SHAME* them... in fact... I had that opportunity....I have the coolest story of how we handled our 2nd son ....who talked to him... ME...and out of his own mouth - he thanked me for NOT shaming him. Little story  HERE (post # 14 in purple)

Read this article >> Sexual Guilt

My own husband.... He had 300 Playboys under his bed... he was happily







it 3 times day in his youth. I guess it was a blessing his parents weren't over the top Religious ....his Mom knew he had Playboys...she did tell him she didn't like it -but didn't harp...he bought them when they went to Garage sales He was a Boy scout too...well...he got bored at the Weblo level & quit. 

And you know what....Thank God for it... that's how he learned what to do with me!! He read the articles -said they were good. He wasn't a player or anything, just cause a man looks at this stuff does not = what you was led to believe. He had grand self control...just as you did. 

I think every woman & every man should read this BOOK... 







Men in Love: Nancy Friday: Books







....because this = Male sexuality..it's normalcy...that so few have dared look into and understand. Some women would be horrified - the purist thinkers among us...but these are *fantasies*...if their actions are kept under control ..it serves some purpose, even if we may not grasp it all. That is where good mentoring/ examples can step in...



> An extraordinary, explicitly masculine journey, Men In Love develops a startlingly honest portrayal of what it means to be a man in contemporary America. Here are the unexpurgated dreams, fantasies and fetishes that excite and obsess men today.
> 
> In creating this historic study, Nancy Friday listened -- without disapproval, apology or censorship -- to the candid responses of thousands of men aged fourteen through sixty. She gave them a legitimate arena where they could share their "secret gardens" -- the hidden and forbidden but nonetheless real and true. Much more than a litany of erotica, this unique volume doesn't tell us how men should love. It tells us how men do love -- a stunning insight into the desires that dwell within men's psyches... and their hearts.



Even if the human mind of some, more the Purity believers among us view all lustful thoughts as pure sin in need of repentence.....it doesn't make them right. It just means they sat under such a strict teaching, some can handle that -if low drive, likely it is easier, I would think. 

Heck.. many a woman has "  Rape Fantasies "... we are erotic too.... I ain't taking no shame for it !! I enjoy them! 

Listen, I lost all my Repressive thinking.. you can as well. It's a mindset.... and in no way does this = your marriage is at stake or you are betraying your wife...unless you are denying her your body/ the emotional connection that bonds. It helps if you 2 can talk about & overcome some of this very hurtful thinking, as a starter. 







SEXUAL FANTASIES - WHAT ARE THEIR HIDDEN MEANINGS?


----------



## RandomDude

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



>


:rofl: That's an awesome smiley lol



> Heck.. many a woman has " Rape Fantasies "... we are erotic too.... I ain't taking no shame for it !! I enjoy them!
> 
> Listen, I lost all my Repressive thinking.. you can as well. It's a mindset.... and in no way does this = your marriage is at stake or you are betraying your wife...unless you are denying her your body/ the emotional connection that bonds. It helps if you 2 can talk about & overcome some of this very hurtful thinking, as a starter.
> 
> SEXUAL FANTASIES - WHAT ARE THEIR HIDDEN MEANINGS?


Interesting... I know my wife fantasises alot with sex involving cuffs/restraints/etc. Hell if I get those for her for V-day since she's been a good girl recently she'll be jumping like a schoolgirl lol


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



RandomDude said:


> :rofl: That's an awesome smiley lol


 Hey Random... take your Pick... you'll love these...
..............................















... Free Sex Smileys - Just Full of Free Smileys...












> Interesting... I know my wife fantasises alot with sex involving cuffs/restraints/etc. Hell if I get those for her for V-day since she's been a good girl recently she'll be jumping like a schoolgirl lol


 I just bet she will.... hey... wonderful to hear you & the Mrs are still working it out ~ Rockin' it.


----------



## RandomDude

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Haha thanks! So THAT's where you get those lol

And yeah, we're fairly stable now, most issues are resolving themselves slowly as long as we maintain this team spirit up while being honest and assertive with each other and what we want from this marriage. Nice, but firm. Encourage, not nag. Etc etc, the little things, makes alot of difference.

And it's summer over here in AUS. Which means she wears less... so lol


----------



## Racer

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



SimplyAmorous said:


> Oh Racer... .. I feel you was done very wrong by your parents - in their handling of a young boys sexuality...I am so convinced


They did fine. I was never shamed by them. They are um... “liberal Christian”... I lived on a hippie commune during the summers in my childhood to give you a ‘taste’. I know they had a sex life too.. But it’s not like any of that was flaunted around. Sort of the Dad kissing Mom to get us kids to go “oooh, yuck... get a room!”  

If anything, my Mom/Grandma made sure I respected women and understood them as different, but equals... Lots of family history was shared, most of it about the women going back before the American Revolution. Civil War stories, expanding west, the hardships, etc. College educated women; Subscription teachers, adventurers, etc. and their stories. Odd thinking about it; The men were “pack mules”... working stiffs, soldiers... providers and supportive of their wives. So I may have gotten the wrong ideals... I’m sure they had stories too; I just never heard them. 

It’s the teachers, the girlfriends, the bible school teacher, the babysitters... They saw the little Romeo in me and that devil. So, 1st grade, the girls would capture the boys and drag them in the tunnel to kiss... I liked that game too much and got caught/punished. I remember being locked into a dark closet at church for putting my arm around a girl. A evil old babysitter who caught me kissing one of the other girls strapped me with a willow branch for being an evil little boy. Girlfriends who’d do that “I don’t see you that way.” Others would ridicule. (Feeds right into poor handling of rejection) It’s not like I didn’t have sexual stuff going on.... probably more than not. It’s just the worst of the worst stands out in my mind and formulated this ‘bad boy’ impression. And it’s all fairly normal and boilerplate stuff a lot of my friends went through too. I just took it very personally.

It also isn’t limited to the sex thing. Violence, anger, greed, selfishness, etc. It is inside us all. Where the real problem was is believing a man should be ‘the boy scout’ and anything else is “bad or morally deficient”. Since it’s normal to feel those other things...... You basically feel bad for being normal.

My wife was only my 3rd PIV time. But everything else? I was a little Romeo; girls liked me a lot. I had intimate knowledge of female anatomy by fifth grade. Molest? Grey area... ugh. By junior high I was pretty good at ignoring ‘no’ and keeping up the pressure until a ‘yes’; even learned alcohol helps remove the inhibitions. Wear them down technique? Dares, bets... Peer pressure using her friends against her. I’d bet they’d say it wasn’t something they really wanted to do. Guilt and shame just writing that. 

The wife picked up that I wasn’t just the ‘boy scout’ I projected to everyone else. She was good at pointing out the hypocracy and kicking in that shame for not being superman. 

Something I’ve noted about people... most see black/white when it suits them. It’s really all grey. So... porn is a good one. There’s a point when it is bad, and another point where it is acceptable. Because those grey point are difficult pinpoint, complex issues are simplified into good=no porn, bad = porn (if you are against it). Just take my post on that subject; because I watch it, I’m a bad Father, Husband, and massively disrespectful toward the female gender. That isn’t reality though. Yet those kinds of judgment calls are what my wife did as well. 

Rationally, I understand all that. Emotionally I’m a mess and confused about how I should feel about "stuff". The reality is I feel both good and bad... The newer me accepts that entire emotional spectrum instead of trying to direct it one way or the other or worse; Go about trying to prove to myself "I am not that way!"


----------



## Racer

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

Oh... and lol about my parents. Sometime during Junior High, my sisters and I sort of had a laugh at them. She found a cheezy cowboy and indian costumes... and a porno ripping off Pocahonis. Gross to think of them role playing, but also immensely hysterical to us.

Other good memories as well... like in HS my parent’s friends admitting the station wagon made him horny. Apparently, when the families would go camping together, the adults would play poker. The winning couple got the station wagon, the losers had to stay in the camper with all the kids..... 

So basically, I did have healthy sex role models as a kid... why I latch onto the temporary relationships to define it is beyond me.


----------



## Trickster

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

My wife told me to have sex with other women...Sex was too much for her and she didn't want to D. (long story there)


So I went on lunch dates, joined some meetup groups, went out to happy hour with friends, started to flirt, started to volunteer... It took a few month but I did meet 2 women that might of been OK with NSA sex.

However.... Even though my wife and I have issues like a lot of marriages, I know it would hurt my wife if I had sex with another women. Plus, I would have a hard time explaining that to my 9 year old daughter.

My wife told me that she would know if I had sex with another women because I cant lie. My face gives it away. 

I havent cheated YET because the joy I would get from a one night stand is just temporary. Even an affair is short term.
My Dad was a cheater and I saw how that destroyed our family. I think it was destroyed before his affair but it sure didnt fix their marriage.

My wife and I are 21 years in the making. I can't guarentee that I will never give in to a beautiful women. For the near future, I will hold off on that.


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## treyvion

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Trickster said:


> My wife told me to have sex with other women...Sex was too much for her and she didn't want to D. (long story there)
> 
> 
> So I went on lunch dates, joined some meetup groups, went out to happy hour with friends, started to flirt, started to volunteer... It took a few month but I did meet 2 women that might of been OK with NSA sex.
> 
> However.... Even though my wife and I have issues like a lot of marriages, I know it would hurt my wife if I had sex with another women. Plus, I would have a hard time explaining that to my 9 year old daughter.
> 
> My wife told me that she would know if I had sex with another women because I cant lie. My face gives it away.
> 
> I havent cheated YET because the joy I would get from a one night stand is just temporary. Even an affair is short term.
> My Dad was a cheater and I saw how that destroyed our family. I think it was destroyed before his affair but it sure didnt fix their marriage.
> 
> My wife and I are 21 years in the making. I can't guarentee that I will never give in to a beautiful women. For the near future, I will hold off on that.


She can physically do the act, just currently mentally it's hard for her. While your there at least build up your confidence. You can get alot without cheating on your wife by getting into dance.


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



Trickster said:


> *My wife told me to have sex with other women...Sex was too much for her and she didn't want to D. (long story there)*
> 
> So I went on lunch dates, joined some meetup groups, went out to happy hour with friends, started to flirt, started to volunteer... It took a few month but I did meet 2 women that might of been OK with NSA sex.
> 
> However.... Even though my wife and I have issues like a lot of marriages,* I know it would hurt my wife if I had sex with another women. Plus, I would have a hard time explaining that to my 9 year old daughter.*
> 
> *My wife told me that she would know if I had sex with another women because I cant lie. My face gives it away. *
> 
> I havent cheated YET because the joy I would get from a one night stand is just temporary. Even an affair is short term.
> My Dad was a cheater and I saw how that destroyed our family. I think it was destroyed before his affair but it sure didnt fix their marriage.
> 
> My wife and I are 21 years in the making. I can't guarentee that I will never give in to a beautiful women. For the near future, I will hold off on that.


You are an Amazing Husband & Father to be able to hold up under these circumstances ....to be given a "free pass"...and still you can't bring yourself to do it... *Integrity written all over that...*...

Trying to put myself in your shoes...as a refused wife....being told this...I wouldn't have been able to remain sexless....I have one thing in common with you... I can't lie either... MY attitude, demeanor, and just being as forthcoming as I have always been would be a hell of a problem.. my mouth would have to be tied shut.... I'd have to divorce.. or I would FALL.. ..and he would KNOW I was headed there.....and I'd want more than a ONS ...if sex/ affection/ intimacy dried to a crumb....I'd work with him for a given amount of time to upsurge the passion.. but really...it comes down to....."if Mama ain't happy, aint' nobody happy"... that sort of thing. ...

Sex is a vital part of marriage ... I feel strongly on this, it may be less than 10% of the marriage, but for those who have been denied...it would feel like 90% of the problems ...

Have you ever read this, this expresses what is lost when sex goes >> 

This is What a Sexless Marriage Feels Like - And yet 

Does your wife understand what she is doing to you? If intercourse is the problem, there are other ways to still have sexual intimacy..

Let Me Count the Ways: Discovering Great Sex Without Intercourse: Books

Is there Resentment on her part that she has come to this place...that needs dug up & resolved between you both >> 

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/sex-ma...l-etc-how-robs-us-intimacy-we-crave-most.html

Sorry... not familiar with your story Trickster.... 

I feel for your situation... it's just not right.. .I can not understand how resentment hasn't eaten you alive.. or maybe it has...

I can't see the refuser as innocent, or a victim.... the fact she has enough mercy to allow you an escape/ an outlet... I do give her points here.. but how true....how does one explain this to their 9 yr old daughter...and who wants to live a life of hiding...it's an awful situation to be in...You deserve this >>









... Sometimes I feel men are stronger over women when it comes to Resentment... (don't bash me for this)... as I know my husband would be less resentful over a situation like this than myself... we've talked about it, I asked him once -what IF I refused him, no more sex, what would he do, he said he'd still stay, he wouldn't cheat... he'd still love me.. I told him he's crazy, I'd never feel that way [email protected]#$% ... I'd feel gravely unloved...and I'd grow to feel my spouse was my mortal enemy.... Don't mind me, I am just thinking out loud... when someone divorces over this.. makes all the sense in the world to me...but when you have kids..it's not so easy.. again, I sympathize. A shame 21 yrs is a long long time...


----------



## I Notice The Details

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



romantic_guy said:


> Another great post SA. I especially like the picture and caption about romancing the same girl for the rest of her life. I guess that figures given my screen name!


:iagree: Wonderful post SA....Awesome. I will print it out and use it with my son. He is already doing many of these now at 13!

Thanks for posting!


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## larry.gray

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



SimplyAmorous said:


> ... Sometimes I feel men are stronger over women when it comes to Resentment... (don't bash me for this)... as I know my husband would be less resentful over a situation like this than myself... we've talked about it, I asked him once -what IF I refused him, no more sex, what would he do, he said he'd still stay, he wouldn't cheat... he'd still love me.. I told him he's crazy, I'd never feel that way [email protected]#$% ... I'd feel gravely unloved...and I'd grow to feel my spouse was my mortal enemy.... Don't mind me, I am just thinking out loud... when someone divorces over this.. makes all the sense in the world to me...but when you have kids..it's not so easy.. again, I sympathize. A shame 21 yrs is a long long time...


I think this is a good example of people will apply gender assumptions based their personal circumstances. 

Your husband may do that, but it wasn't me. I was ready to be done. I fixed myself first. I believed I owed my family that. I stopped doing the things I wasn't proud of, I started treating my wife really well so she wouldn't have resentments as an excuse. I gave that 6 months, then made it clear that she better change her 'game' or I was done. I know she believed me because it was sincere, I really was ready to be done.

We're happy now, and I'm so glad it worked out this way. It's a hell of a lot better to have my family intact and our shared history. Most of all I'm grateful I never was fully tempted by a woman when I may have failed.


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## hookares

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

I think if we are to assign labels, there should be three.
Alpha. Beta and with the last being Stupid guy.
I tried to treat my wife as I would hope to be treated and it seemed to be working as far as I was aware.
Twenty years later,I realized I was truly the 3rd choice.


----------



## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



larry.gray said:


> *I think this is a good example of people will apply gender assumptions based their personal circumstances.
> Your husband may do that, but it wasn't me. I was ready to be done.*


 Of course you are right... and it's good we can be humble enough to say* >> *"*It was ME who was the problem *"... To be fair... I feel it has more to do with a temperament thing over male or female ...or just how we personally view *happiness* in marriage....some's bar is simply....lower...they can tolerate more ... My husband can naturally tolerate more over me...I'm more quick to get bent out of shape....and cause some disturbance....

He actually did start feeling resentment *towards ME* during the "one baby after another after another" years when I was lavishing more attention on THEM, putting him on the back burner.....he choose to STUFF IT... instead of talking to me.... I was Sooooooooo HAPPY ... I wasn't aware of how he was feeling, wanting more from me...I needed a brick..







.....looking back.... I was getting my "Touch" needs through the closeness of our little ones..

Now I know one thing clear as day... Had I been HIM...







...it would not have played down like that....I don't stuff...we would have been having some  to 's.. ya know... he neglected that.. feeling ..."well it could be worse, I still love her, we have the kids"... that wasn't doing him any favors!!! 

My primary temperament doesn't have a whole lot of patience.... HIS DOES... we are opposites.. I am the brash "let's get it done" Choleric ... he is the laid back dry humored Phlegmatic... His weaknesses are my strengths and my weaknesses are his strengths.. it's helps we both want the same things....even then I would have.. ..(he just wanted MORE...which was so damn doable).....I was just clueless..and needed him to Open up with me... be vulnerable .... or at the very least.. TELL ME WHAT FOR... He was never mean or harsh to me, it would have gotten my attention... I deserved that!



> *I fixed myself first. I believed I owed my family that. I stopped doing the things I wasn't proud of, I started treating my wife really well so she wouldn't have resentments as an excuse. I gave that 6 months, then made it clear that she better change her 'game' or I was done. I know she believed me because it was sincere, I really was ready to be done*.


 :smthumbup: And everything you did was the RIGHT script to follow ....before walking out that door saying Goodbye to your family....

I don't know your story...what led up to all of this, the why's....you missed it with your wife... maybe you could do a "Story" thread in the successful marriage section someday...leading to the Brink, changing course & reviving your Marriage...

When I read Trickster 's post.... I just assume he may have done all the right things, jumped through all the right hoops -yet his wife is just a Low drive woman... (and it's painful)...so what is he to do....I can't see him as a bad guy -being given a free pass to be with another woman....yet his morals won't allow it.. this is someone with great empathy...and integrity.

Even some of the best of men get shafted.. Some take advantage of the GOODNESS laid at their feet...just because they can get away with it.. why books like "NO MORE Mr Nice GUY" are so needed. 



> We're happy now, and I'm so glad it worked out this way. It's a hell of a lot better to have my family intact and our shared history. *Most of all I'm grateful I never was fully tempted by a woman when I may have failed*.


 That's wonderful , I wonder if you ever shared that with her.. some may be offended that the thought could even come in.. though I think that'd be pretty normal & Hearing that would be extra special... You & hers's is a success story.


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## 12345Person

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

1. Morals are subjective. But my husband does have "integrity".

2. Husband doesn't have much compassion for others than family and friends.

3. Husband has confidence.

4. Husband has little self-control.

5. Yes.

6. Is brave but not stupid.

7. He's not humble.

8. Yes.

9. Lol nope he works at McDonald's.

Love my husband more than the world and he is a MAN. Don't care about lists.


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## SurpriseMyself

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

First, thank you for sharing this. I have recently faced and am currently facing trials in my life that have been made harder because I am not living up to these ideals. I have printed this list, as I agree it to be one that applies to both genders, and have posted it where I can see it each day.


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## treyvion

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



hookares said:


> I think if we are to assign labels, there should be three.
> Alpha. Beta and with the last being Stupid guy.
> I tried to treat my wife as I would hope to be treated and it seemed to be working as far as I was aware.
> Twenty years later,I realized I was truly the 3rd choice.


Who were the first two choices?


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



ebp123 said:


> *First, thank you for sharing this. I have recently faced and am currently facing trials in my life that have been made harder because I am not living up to these ideals. I have printed this list, as I agree it to be one that applies to both genders, and have posted it where I can see it each day*.


 Wonderful to hear ...it's a good path...... I can't see how anyone can go wrong by striving to live up to these (sure we all fall down & miss it at times, we're only human)... even if you are rejected in face of it....I'd say any man should be able to hold his head high... and have the courage to move on....knowing you did...and gave ...the very best you could...

Yes both genders...speaking of which.... I would like to copy & paste Heartsbeating's words she had on the "*Real Woman thread*" (a turn around on the genders here).....that was deleted yesterday... as I felt it captured the essence of what we should strive for daily in our interactions...with our husbands, friends, family, co-workers, our children..etc.



> *Heartsbeating said*: To me, a woman is someone that has maturity. She displays compassion, intuition, self-acceptance and strength. She is able to embrace and welcome. She is able to set boundaries and say no.
> 
> She is emotional but is not a slave to her emotions. She allows herself to be vulnerable. She has self-respect. She inspires. She is comfortable in her own skin and from that place, she helps to put others at ease too.
> 
> There is a kindness and softness as well as an inner strength. She is intelligent. And being intelligent doesn't equate to having a degree, no it's more than that. It's about wisdom and social intelligence. A woman is able to say sorry and admit her mistakes. A woman is someone you trust, you know you are seeing the real them, and you know she sees beyond the superficial. She has self-awareness.










for your thoughts Ebp.


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## thunderstruck

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*

C'mon, nothing about how a man should know how to change a lightbulb?:scratchhead:


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## SimplyAmorous

*Re: Characteristics of a REAL MAN, worthy of Praise & Honor - minus the Alpha/Beta de*



thunderstruck said:


> *C'mon, nothing about how a man should know how to change a lightbulb?:scratchhead:*


I'm usually one nitty gritty detailed Mama - but that would be pushing it !


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