# toxic friends



## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

One of the pieces of advice I hear on here a lot is the WS should cut all contact with the friends who helped hide the affair because you say they are toxic. This can also include friends who knew about it, didn't condone it, but also didn't tell you. So shouldn't this rule be used against the WS. In other words the spouses of the friends who hadn't known at the time should get them to cut all contact with your WS because they are toxic. 

So to the BS on here, what would you do if they did that? Would you be angry even though they were doing exactly what you were doing? I just see no difference. You can't really say the friends are toxic yet your WS isn't. 

How many here have a friend who is cheating or has cheated and hasn't said anything? If so then doesn't that make you a toxic friend? You may say that its because their spouse is really horrible but did you only hear this from the friend? What do you think your WS told their friends about you. Or because you are a BS and know the lies that are told would you expose the affair? Or at the very least get them to end one of the relationships.

I'm just curious because sometimes I wonder if you can actually say the friends are toxic . Especially if the WS is painting you as some abusive monster who is making their life hell.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Toxic friends are the 'friends' who say things like: 

"You go, girl!"
"Well done, mate! A bit on the side never hurt anyone!"
"What the eye doesn't see, the heart doesn't grieve over!"

Those 'friends' who actively encourage a husband or wife to cheat.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

Seven,
What is a friend? Is a friend one who can watch another destroy their life and do nothing to stop it. A friend accepts you for who you are but does that include unlimited acceptance? If your friend is drunk do you allow them to drive knowing they could cause injury or death to themselves or others? Is that a real friend? If you see a friend heading down a path that will ultimately end badly should you do everything you can to prevent it or should you just allow it to happen? Which denotes true friendship? Sometime friends have to do what is best for their friend even if it's not what they want. A true friend will accept anger, rejection and disdain from their "friend" if they know that their actions are correct and right and will ultimately be in the best interest of their friend.

The friends, to which you refer to as toxic, can allow their friend to traverse a path known to be treacherous and potentially deadly while taking no steps to stop or deter their "friend". Therefore if a "friend" allows another to be hurt or injured what kind of friend are they really? Allowing behavior that will ultimately prove harmful to their friend is toxic.


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

After my divorce, I cut all ties with people who said,directly or unwittingly, that they were still in touch with my exH.

I feel pretty certain that I saved myself from all the problems that 3 way conversations can cause.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

Toxic friends destabilize the marriage. Nothing more to say on this.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. Was just really curious about what is classed as a toxic friend. Seeing some threads it seemed like it was just anyone who knew about it, even the ones who didn't agree with it. But if its just the ones that are actively trying to encourage it then that would make sense as they could try to do the same thing again.


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## Thundarr (Jul 4, 2012)

The point is to avoid people and lifestyles that are damaging to the relationship. It could be a friend, a sibling, a parent, a job, etc. A well meaning single friend who likes to party it up could still be toxic to her/his friend's marriage if they put their friend in risky situations. Maybe situations they themselves are fine in but the friend is not. In that case, yes the WS is toxic when in those environment they have to avoid them.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

Years ago I was very, very close to my then father in law. When my ex wife betrayed me I learned that my father in law had been somewhat of a toxic enabler. This, in spite of the fact that he badly wanted his daughter and I to reconcile .

He begged me to continue our relationship but I chose to never see him again as long as I was apart from my ex. I knew this wouldn't happen since adultery was a deal breaker for me from the very start. 

When my ex quickly married her affair partner my ex father in law had a massive heart attack and died a couple times but was miraculously revived on the long drive to the hospital. 

He was in excellent physical shape and I was told by a doctor (common friend) the heart incident was brought about by the stress of seeing his daughter burn the final bridge between her and I. 

I knew him well enough to know that he clung to the hope of us reconciling but when she remarried he lost hope and despair set in and triggered the heart attack. He has himself to blame in part for the small amount of toxic enabling, but his daughter has to live the rest of her life knowing what she did to her dad. 

Looking back over two decades with 20/20 hindsight I still would choose to cut our relationship if I had to do it all over again. I had to do it for my own sake.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

I had a friend who was cheating on his wife.

He was not my friend, then.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

This has always been an interesting topic. 

If the friends simply had knowledge but didn't cheer lead it on or hang out with the WS and the OM/OW but were too conflicted to reveal, I wouldn't call that friend 'toxic'. There is a reason why. A long time ago, one of my best friends decided to have an affair. It repulsed me and I decided to distance myself. I then notified the BS. He went back to her and made amends and they remained together. Then he blamed me (not himself of course) for trying to wreck their marriage and it almost came to blows. The BS then took her WS side in an effort to keep their marriage going and hung me out to dry by not defending me. So I lost both of them. It is situations like these that people don't want to get involved. However, many 'toxic' friends encourage the affair and don't feel repulsed by it. So my definition of a 'toxic' friend is one who encourages it and hides it intentionally if confronted, but one is not 'toxic' if they distance themselves from it but says nothing for fear they will end up like I did. 

In the end, it is all on the wayward. 100% of it. I hate it when the wayward gets away with it and everyone defends them in the end.


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## IIJokerII (Apr 7, 2014)

wmn1 said:


> This has always been an interesting topic.
> 
> If the friends simply had knowledge but didn't cheer lead it on or hang out with the WS and the OM/OW but were too conflicted to reveal, I wouldn't call that friend 'toxic'. There is a reason why. A long time ago, one of my best friends decided to have an affair. It repulsed me and I decided to distance myself. I then notified the BS. He went back to her and made amends and they remained together. Then he blamed me (not himself of course) for trying to wreck their marriage and it almost came to blows. The BS then took her WS side in an effort to keep their marriage going and hung me out to dry by not defending me. So I lost both of them. It is situations like these that people don't want to get involved. However, many 'toxic' friends encourage the affair and don't feel repulsed by it. So my definition of a 'toxic' friend is one who encourages it and hides it intentionally if confronted, but one is not 'toxic' if they distance themselves from it but says nothing for fear they will end up like I did.
> 
> In the end, it is all on the wayward. 100% of it. I hate it when the wayward gets away with it and everyone defends them in the end.


 Then this individual was, is, a coward and unable to own his own choices. This is a clear indication that his marriage will one day falter because of this reaction. You lost nothing sir, I know is offers no consolation but you did what you thought was right, which in the end was right, despite the consequences. A true friend says thank you for ending my stupidity, not blaming you for their bad behavior.


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## NoChoice (Feb 12, 2012)

wmn1 said:


> This has always been an interesting topic.
> 
> If the friends simply had knowledge but didn't cheer lead it on or hang out with the WS and the OM/OW but were too conflicted to reveal, I wouldn't call that friend 'toxic'. There is a reason why. A long time ago, one of my best friends decided to have an affair. It repulsed me and I decided to distance myself. I then notified the BS. He went back to her and made amends and they remained together. Then he blamed me (not himself of course) for trying to wreck their marriage and it almost came to blows. The BS then took her WS side in an effort to keep their marriage going and hung me out to dry by not defending me. So I lost both of them. It is situations like these that people don't want to get involved. However, many 'toxic' friends encourage the affair and don't feel repulsed by it. So my definition of a 'toxic' friend is one who encourages it and hides it intentionally if confronted, but one is not 'toxic' if they distance themselves from it but says nothing for fear they will end up like I did.
> 
> In the end, it is all on the wayward. 100% of it. I hate it when the wayward gets away with it and everyone defends them in the end.


All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing. If I lost the friendship because I told the truth then so be it, wasn't much there to begin with. If you know for a fact that a crime is going to be committed and you say nothing and it is found out, you are an accomplice.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

I'm actually on the side of staying out of it most of the time. So if my friend was cheating on his wife, for example, I would express my disapproval, try to get him to stop, but I would not tell his wife. That's between him and her.

Many disagree I know.

That said, if he was being really over the top with it, or really changed so much as a human being that I didn't care what he thought of me anymore (i.e. the friendship was going to end), then I might tell her.

So would I be considered a toxic friend? IMHO, no, that person just isn't taking direct action. That person is not an enemy of the marriage, however.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

I am not friends with cheaters because they are scum and I am worth a better friend than a scumbag. Years ago I caught my best friend cheating. I told my wife about it and that he was not welcome in my house anymore until I had a talk with him.

He would usually come over to my house on Saturdays and we would go shooting or do research or work on cars. He came over and I stopped him at my door. I took him out for coffee and laid it down.

I told him everything about his affair, I found out everything, and told him he was never going to be allowed in my house or life again unless he cut OW off and told his wife everything. His jaw hit the floor that I knew so much and he was scared but he agreed to end it and try to R with his wife.

I gave them free counseling and it broke my heart. His wife was a wonderful wife and mother. She worked part time and took care of their kids. Her heart was broken and he had given her an STD.

She decided to give him another chance. He did a false R and I found out. I cut him out absolutely. I have not seen him in maybe 17 years and I don't care if he is alive or dead.

Anyone that does this to a spouse and won't change immediately when caught or confess is not worth spitting on.

Honestly, I would not be friends with anyone that knew and stayed friends and did not expose or force the WS to expose.

I like people with balls and backbone. Cowards suck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## RV9 (Sep 29, 2014)

I outed a close friend when he was cheating on his wife. I'm not friends with monsters.


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## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

all good responses by Joker, Conan and No Choice. Gabriel, I understand and based on my experience, I agree with you too. I have a zero tolerance to cheating and like Conan said, I cut them out of my life. If they aren't good enough to be loyal to their spouse, how do I know if they won't target mine ?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

My very best friend was cheating on his wife, I tried to get him to stop, and he wouldn't. So I exposed him to his wife. They reconciled, and today he's still my best friend, and he thanked me for setting him on the right path. During that period my wife was trying to get me to stop, saying it was their business alone. I was surprised at her attitude considering how she knew about my first wife who cheated on me and left me. 

I told her I will not stand idly by while my friend was destroying his marriage and just look the other way. Because I know what that's like. When my first wife was cheating on me, my then friends knew about it but wouldn't tell me because they didn't want to interfere. It's only after I had confirmed the cheating was going on, that I had to drag the information out of them, and they told me where they would meet in public (at a restaurant across the street from school). My own family finally told me that they had seen her around town occasionally with the OM. Of course her excuse was they were "just friends". It's humiliating when people you know, know about the affair or have seen things, but you're the last to find out.

So I will not tolerate people who stand idly by and if I have confirmation of an affair, I'm exposing that person. What's that saying by Edmund Burke?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"

Isn't cheating evil in itself? If I lose that friendship as a result of the exposure, so be it. At least my conscience is clear and I did the right thing.

I define toxic friends into three categories:

1. Enablers - those who provide the emotional support to the cheater, providing the sounding board as the cheater demonizes their betrayed spouse. Those who encourage the cheater to cheat "You go girl!", etc. They will encourage the cheater to go out with the OM/OW even while they know the marriage is in trouble. Enablers may also be ones who know about the affair, but prefer to turn a blind eye and "not get involved". 

2. Facilitators - even worse than enablers. They actively involve themselves in the affair by providing alibis, places for the cheaters to meet, covering for the cheater if the BS is looking for their WS, let the cheater use their phone or home, etc. 

3. Enablers/Facilitators - the worst of all are the toxic friends who both enable and facilitate the affair. These are the lowest of the low in my book.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I'm ashamed to say that I had a best friend years and years ago that was cheating on his wife. I didn't assist him, but I never told his wife, even when she flat out asked me. She eventually caught him and divorced him. I've thought about writing her over the years to apologize, but I haven't.

Now I know, that I was a toxic friend to her marriage. I now have a different view because my wife's best friend knew she was cheating on me and didn't tell me - even though the cheating was with her own husband. When I recovered all the facebook messages detailing her affair, I read through thousands of her other friends' messages to find out who else knew. Everyone that did, is gone from our lives - at my insistence.

Sufficed to say; your perspective about what defines a toxic friend can change, once you've been cheated on.


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## Gabriel (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, if someone asked me if their spouse was cheating on them, and they were, I would definitely tell them.

It's an interesting debate.

My wife and I believed cheater for awhile once - we completely fell for her lies about her husband. She told us he was sending nude pics of himself to others, that he was likely cheating too. So we just let them have each other's problems. 

Turned out, none of that was true, and it was just her doing it. We ended the friendship with her. Didn't tell the husband, as we barely knew him. But we cut her out of our lives. Don't know if they are still married or not. Don't care. 

That was the one time it actually happened to us and how we handled it. I think it's a very different thing if you stay friends with a cheater while they are cheating vs taking the step of outing them. We decided to end the friendship when we knew the whole story, but since we hardly knew the husband at all, we didn't take it to the level of exposing her to him, as we didn't feel qualified to say something like that to someone we barely knew. We did tell some mutual friends. None of those mutual friends are still acquainted with this woman.

I think if the husband was part of this group of friends, we would have eventually told him if it came clear his wife was going to keep it a secret. I believe in trying to persuade the cheater to out themselves first, and only outing them if it becomes clear they are never going to do that.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

My wayward wife had a Toxic friend that that knew of the affair and covered/enable her affair.

then that toxic friend was interested in me (I was not interested).
my ww found out cut her out for good.
she says that was horrible for a friend to do. I remind her that she (WW) was the one that was cheating. That shuts her up pretty quick.
(seems ww wasn't afraid to lose me until someone else showed interest).


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## 1812overture (Nov 25, 2013)

wmn1 said:


> I have a zero tolerance to cheating and like Conan said, I cut them out of my life. If they aren't good enough to be loyal to their spouse, how do I know if they won't target mine ?


I have the OPs dilemma right now (though it's a woman, so she wouldn't target my spouse.)

Between what I am certain of, what the now separated and soon divorcing husband has told me (reason to be skeptical) and what I have observed, the wife pushed and got a friendly separation/divorce. After the agreement, the husband realized she'd been having an affair she seems to be playing the field, AND is giving the husband/x-husband trouble if/when her new single life doesn't go swimmingly. 

He's moved out, and she's invited friends to the house which is now all hers. We aren't close to her, and barely know the husband, but have the same circle of friends. I'd rather not go, and therefore condone her behavior. My wife wants to go. Confrontation isn't on the table, because it's not my place, I may not have all my facts right (I have enough right), and I have no idea who else knows what. 

Given that my wife and I aren't in a great spot now, anyway, it will be an instructive resolution. I want to not go, and thus not condone, this behavior. The woman will never know why we didn't go, so there's no big lesson. I'd just prefer not to condone it, even if my absence won't even be noted.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

When I reconnected with my two long time friends, after the death of on their parents, they both were in long running affairs. Now, both have cut ties to those men. I never enabled, but never judged either. Ones marriage is going great, the other ones marriage continues to limp along, but she is remaining faithful.

I will never tell. My allegiance is to them and what is best for them. And what I think is best for them is to fix their marriages and not look for outside diversions.


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## SevenYears (Jun 23, 2014)

With me, it was actually my best friend who was cheating. He just told me that he'd met someone else but was going to stay with his current girlfriend in case it didn't work out. He didn't like being alone. His excuse was he didn't think his current relationship was going anywhere. It just made me sick. I told him that if he didn't end it with one of them I would tell his girlfriend. He never mentioned it again but a few weeks later he told me his girlfriend saw him out with the new lass. He got away lightly as all she did was text him that she'd seen them and it was over. I still feel bad that I never said anything. I should have known he was still seeing them both. 

Strangely enough his new girlfriend had a 5 month affair after 6 years together.

This case is one of the reasons I just don't understand when a BS takes back a WS when their relationship with OM/OW ends. Like with my friend they are only back so that they aren't alone. If they hadn't been dumped / found out OM/OW was never interested in a relationship / they end up disliking it they wouldn't be back. You are and forever will be Plan B.


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