# Coming to an end?



## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Hello everyone who cares to read this long post,

Where do you start when you've been married for 16 years and have 3 amazing kids together? And I'm still trying to come to grips with this, but I fear our marriage is over. I'll try to be as brief as possible, but this will be long.
We met in an online chat back before everyone else was doing it back in 1998. She was 17, and I was 22. Her age scared me a lot, but we continued to chat and talk for months. Her beautiful blue eyes captivated me, and I've always been a sucker for blondes. We met once in person, and shortly after, she proposed to me online. I reluctantly accepted, and then moved to where she lived. A few months after that, she got pregnant, and we bumped our original wedding date from October to June. She turned 18 and I turned 23, and a few days before our new wedding date, she lost the baby, but we continued on with the wedding. We eventually moved back to where I'm from, and our first year of marriage was absolute hell. We fought all of the time, and she'd feel abandoned when I'd leave to hang out with my guy friends. At that time, we only had one vehicle, so she felt trapped, and she hardly knew anyone here, so she also felt all alone. To make matters worse, even when I was home, I rarely spent anytime with her, ignored her, and mostly playing computer games.
After our first year of marriage, we hardly ever fought, and we rarely fight still to this day. I tried to keep my interests and hobbies to a minimal, but they'd always interfere. We tend to get along very well for the most part. Over the next several years, like any married couple, we had our ups and downs. But the downs kept getting lower each time we'd go through them. There's obviously something missing from our marriage, and truth be told, the very cause of the issue is because I never truly loved her the way she deserves to be loved... the way she loves me back. Don't get me wrong, I love my wife very dearly and very much. I care about her as much as anyone ever could. But my wife loves me to an extent that I can't return. I've never been with a woman before that desires and wants me the way she does, or wants to spend as much time with me as much as she once did. I'm sure many of you are probably asking why I married her, and continued to stay married to her for 16 years. I just always believed that eventually, I would love her more and more as the years passed, and I did, but still not the way that I should've. After 5 years, we had our first daughter, and then another daughter 15 months later. And then a son 2 years after that. Although our kids filled a void we were both missing, the void we had with each other was still there. She grew lonely and found someone to chat with online that started to become intimate. Although it never got physical, I was angry, and I returned the same back by doing the same. I know, two wrongs never make a right. But we both felt that we learned a valuable lesson, and grew together from that. But the big pink elephant that started all of this never left the room.
Now, 16 years later, we're going through another down, the lowest down we've ever experienced. And to throw a monkey wrench into the equation, I was also laid off from my job. So now we have financial uncertainties added to our marital issues. I often ponder what it would be like to be in a relationship where we both wanted each other, to share the same desires for each other, and believe me, I have tried so hard over the past 16 years to do that with her. Every time in the past when we've recovered from one of our downs, we'd grow together, and we enjoy each others company. But she feels that my intimate affections are forced and fake, and unfortunately, they often are. I love cuddling and snuggling in bed with her, but usually only to that extent.
After a lot of crying and sleepless nights, I think I have finally concluded to end it. Not because I'll be happier. I could stay married to her for the rest of our lives. As far as I can tell, our kids are oblivious to our situation, and they could grow up feeling safe, loved, and nurtured from the both of us. But I feel that staying together wouldn't be right to her. If I can gather the strength and courage to end it, I will miss her very much. She's the most fun, loving, affectionate woman I have ever known. Any man would be so lucky to be loved by her as much as I have been, and I consider myself lucky to have spent the last 16 years of my life with her. But I have to put her own happiness before my own comfort and stability. We're planning to contact a marriage therapist tomorrow, and perhaps I might see things from a different perspective, but I'm not really sure how it will change the inevitable. This is killing me, it's hurting her, and it will devastate our kids. I don't know if I can go through with it. If I loved her, wanted her, and desired her as much as she did me, our marriage problems would cease to exist. If we hated each other, fought and yelled all of the time, and had a horrible marriage, then this decision would be easier. But after years of apathy and neglect, years of her resenting me, and years of me regretting how I treated her, it must come to an end. If anyone has any light they'd like to shed, please share it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I understand exactly why you married her. What were each of your childhoods like?

EAs were virtually unheard of until the computer age. It is very easy to get

lulled into that trap. I am a firm believer in most marriages can be saved,

if both parties are willing to set aside their egos. Have the two of you tried

MC? Have each of you read 5 Love Languages?


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## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

Your lucky you have a wife that loves you so much. It sounds like you think of her as more of a friend than a lover. You are not ready to end your marriage. Don't destroy your family until you are sure. Your marriage sounds like a lot of marriages that goes through ups and downs. At least wait until your children are out of the house, they shouldn't have to go through a divorce because of your feelings.

You don't know if you will be happier alone. You may never find anyone else that loves you like your wife does. Your relationship with your children will never be the same and you will be blamed for splitting up your family. Hopefully MC will show you that you should stay in your marriage. If your wife felt the same way as you did then I would understand your position but it sounds like she loves you and wants to keep the marriage together.


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## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Sorry I didn't respond sooner. I'm having to respond when everyone is either in bed fast asleep, or not at home.



Chuck71 said:


> What were each of your childhoods like?


Ok, you asked for it. Here's part 2 of my life's novel...

We grew up completely different. She grew up in a home where her parents constantly fought and yelled at each other. Although my wife's father wasn't physically abusive towards her (he did get physically abusive with my wife's mother a few times), he was verbally abusive with both his wife and kids. He's either one extreme or the other. My wife told me that when things are good, he can be very loving and passionate. Her parents were very openly affectionate when things were good. But when things are bad, they got really bad. He has a very short temper, flies off the handle easily, and then once the dust settles and he cools down, he acts like nothing ever happened. Considering he's 6'5" and over 300 lbs, he can be quite intimating, and he knows it. But he's always been very cordial, polite, and respectful towards me, perhaps because I'm only a couple inches shorter, several pounds leaner, and about 20 years younger than him.
Her mother, on the other hand, has problems with alcohol and pharmaceutical drugs. When things got really bad before her parents divorced when my wife was in her mid-teens, her mother checked-out both mentally and emotionally. She'd stay constantly drunk and doped up on strong pain killers and muscle relaxers. So while her father would be screaming and yelling at everyone at the top of his lungs, her mother would just sit on the couch and zone into the TV like a mindless zombie. My wife remembers having to wash a specific cup in the house her mother used all of the time that smelled horribly of Coke (the soda, not the narcotic) and Jim Beam. My wife was one of those very unusual cases that when her parents separated and divorced, she was actually relieved because it gotten so bad. However, after her parents divorced, they'd use the kids against each other, telling them constantly of how bad and evil the other parent was. Because of how she was raised, when issues arise, she wants to deal with them straight on, right then and right there, in the heat of the moment. She feels that bottling them up inside only makes things worse. Despite her past, when we met, she was young, very caring, loving, and passionate, but also very naive. I was her first and only seriously relationship, true love, and lover. I was her first and only everything.

My childhood was completely opposite of my wife's. I grew up in the traditional 1950's family sitcom, but extremely religious home. My father was a deacon and a Sunday school teacher for the adult class at our home church, but announced his call to preach when I was about 10, and is the pastor of an independent Baptist church today. My mother has been the pianist of every church she's ever attended since she was 11. She's also been the organist, singer for several Christian trios and quartets, taught both Christian and classical piano, organ, and voice lessons from home and at a Christian private school, and was my first musical influence. We attended every church service, revival, and tent meeting in the area the entire time I grew up, which is a reason I avoid church like the plague now. My sister and I both went to a Christian private school during our junior-high years. Although my father would preach “God first, and family second” in the pulpit, my sister and I always came last behind my father's privately-owned retail business, his church, and his church members. Both of my parents were always dependable, always provided for us financially, put clothes on us, food on the table, and a roof over our heads. My parents seem to love each other, but rarely ever showed any affection towards each other around my sister and I while we were growing up. Even today, my sister and I both are unaffectionate people towards our partners publicly, even around our kids. If my parents ever argued (which seemed extremely rare), it was always done quietly, behind closed doors. My father was also very strict, and mine and his tempers are very identical. We both have very long fuses, but they're attached to a nuclear warhead. It takes a lot to anger us, but when we pass that breaking point, we really blow up. During our 16 years of marriage, my wife has only seen me really blow up once, and it was before we had kids (our oldest is 10). The instance involved shoving my computer keyboard and throwing a glass against a wall towards her general direction, although I didn't and wasn't intentionally trying to hit her. I regret that moment, she's never provoked or witnessed that dark side of me ever since, because she knows it's there. Unlike my wife's parents who fought and yelled openly, I tend to bottle everything inside, and prefer to talk about it after I've cooled down. My wife has learned, from personal experience, to let me cool down, or I intentionally say very hurtful statements in the heat of the moment. Like my father, I'm very passive aggressive, and I tend to use people's weaknesses and personal issues against them during a heated argument to both hurt them, and prove my point of how "broken" and wrong they are. For example, I would remind my wife how much she's just like her father, which deeply hurts her, and is a personal issue she struggles with daily. I remember my sister warning my wife when they first met, to not “poke the beast”, let me cool down, or I'll verbally attack, going straight for the jugular. However, I've never talked to my kids like that ever, and haven't made cruel statements like that to my wife in several years. As long as I temporarily remove myself from the situation, cool down, then I become very rational and tactful afterward. My mother has always been a kind, loving, patient, and nurturing person, who's had to deal with a lot in her life. Unlike my father, she was very affectionate with my sister and me, she'd give us hugs, and told us how much she loves us every day. My father is very lucky to have found someone who loves him as much as she does after 40 years in spite of all his flaws, and I attempt to parent my kids blending the pros and positives from both my parents. Although I'm strict and expect a lot from my kids, I hug my kids daily, tell them often that I love them, help them with homework and personal issues, and I'm a lot more involved in my kids' life than my father ever was with mine. Not until I was in college, my father admitted to me that he regretted not being there for us more while we were growing up, and he's turned into a very caring, loving, nurturing grandparent to my kids, a side of him I never saw before. Of course, you can only imagine how “goo-goo” and “gaa-gaa” my mother is with her grandchildren. I love and respect both my parents very much, despite my father's absence in mine and my sister's life, and all of his shortcomings. My parents are as happily married as you can be after 40+ years of marriage, I suppose. At least, that what it seems on the outside. If either of them are unhappy, they dare not display, hint, or tell any of us.

However, despite my (for the most part) very boring childhood, I have experienced a few instances that would probably mess up any kid. Below are issues I don't like talking about, and only a handful of people outside my close family in my entire life know any details, but may shed some light on how it affected and influenced me, my behaviors, and my personality.
When I was 8 years old, my grandmother intentionally shot and killed my grandfather from behind (in his back) at close range in the basement of their house with a shotgun, while he was knelt down working on a push lawn mower. She was convinced he was cheating on her with another woman. I don't know if he actually cheated on her or not, but I reluctantly admit my grandmother had a mental disorder/illness that she was never diagnosed or treated for. I remember seeing his dried blood stain on the basement floor where he had passed away. When her son (my mother's brother/my uncle) heard the gunshot, he came running downstairs. They struggled over the shotgun, which went off and shot my uncle in the arm. He and his son (my first cousin) moved in with my family for a few years while my parents nursed my uncle back to health, but that's another issue I'll discuss in the next paragraph. But like most of my severely detrimental, life-changing issues, I kept everything inside, rarely ever talked about it to anyone, and dealt with it internally as best as an 8 year old could deal with losing his grandfather in a brutal murder. I felt all alone, because none of my friends at school could possibly ever understand. So for many years, I spoke about it rarely to anyone, and if I did, I was too ashamed or embarrassed to publicly admit that it was my grandmother who had taken my beloved grandfather away from me. After she served her time in prison, it took me years to forgive her, if I ever really did. She lived a long life, married and divorced a couple of jerks, and passed away in her 80's from leukemia. She was surrounded by all of us during her last moments, a luxury and privilege she had taken away from her first husband, our dearest grandfather.
My first cousin, who's 5 years older than and was 13 at the time, moved in with my family when I was 8 (because his father had been shot in the arm), and who was already severely damaged. Both of my cousin's parents are mentally handicapped (I'm quite convinced mild-to-moderate mental disorders/illnesses are genetic on my mother's side), he had grown up abused by both his parents, and molested by his father ever since he was an infant. But everyone in my family simply ignored it and was in complete denial that it was going on. When my cousin and his father moved in with my family, it was really cool at first, because he was older than me, I looked up to him like a big brother, and we were inseparable. In the beginning, we played a lot, boys and their forts, and we rode our bicycles everywhere. But he has a very aggressive, angry, cruel, dark, manipulative, vengeful side to him my parents have always feared greatly, even before he was a teenager. He got heavily involved into the occult, and unfortunately, it wasn't the good, happy, earth-loving, tree-hugging, hippie Wicca stuff. No, it was the really black, Aleister Crowley, Anton LaVey, and then some. He'd cast spells to harm others for his own personal benefit (if you believe in that stuff), and he played around a lot with the really dark side of witchcraft. He also listened to either very aggressive, angry, heavy music, or really dark music that you'd want to slit your wrists to. He also introduced me to sex at a fairly young age using very hardcore magazines, and it wasn't stuff you can simply buy at the local convenient store, either. I have no idea how he obtained this material, since he wasn't even old enough to drive at this point, perhaps from his father? Anyways, after my parents found out my cousin molested my sister at least once or twice, they had enough, couldn't take anymore, and they sent him to an all boys home (orphanage). They tried their best to help him, but the damage had already been done, and he was far beyond their help. I'm sure you can imagine by now he's a heavy alcoholic, and is extremely aggressive and violent when he's drunk. He's intentionally tried to kill at least a couple of people (to my knowledge), when he's completely wasted. Ever since then, he uses his horrible past to manipulate people. Once he has won their pity and trust, he takes as much from them as possible before he uses them up, and then moves onto the his next victim. He's repeated that vicious cycle to countless numbers over the last two decades. I finally broke all ties with him when he held a knife to my throat, and then he threatened to smash my sister's head through a window. I told him that if he touched my sister ever again, I'd kill him, and I've only spoken with him a few times since, but only when our paths crossed. The reason I've talked about my cousin so much is because, unfortunately, he played such a major role in my life growing up. To this day, I enjoy studying about the really dark side of paganism and witchcraft, although I personally do not believe in it or follow it whatsoever (I'm agnostic, if that matters). For me, it's more or less interesting and fascinating. I also tend to listen to a lot of the same type of music he did, and find peace and relief once I release whatever emotion I'm feeling after listening to it.
I never really dated or been in any serious relationships until I went to college, mostly because I was home schooled during my high school years. After my childhood best friend/neighbor moved to another state, and my cousin moved away (but not nearly far away enough), I had no one else to confide in while home schooled during my high school years, except for my sister. We were really close, drove around together after I got my license, and went to several concerts together. Even as close as were, she was still my “little sister” (although she's only 2 years younger than me), and I lacked any friendships outside my home. I felt lonely and desperate to be with someone, and eventually, I met my ex-fiance. We dated for a couple of years, got engaged, but as time went on, I felt and knew that I loved her more deeply than she loved me. Sure she cared about me a lot, but she knew she couldn't marry someone whom she wasn't passionately in love with. I desired and wanted her more than she desired and wanted me, and eventually, she broke it off with me before we were setting our wedding date. See where this is leading? I thought I loved her so much, I was so heartbroken, to the point that even my parents feared I might take my own life. They admitted to me later that they hid all of the sharp knives (I wondered what happened to them all), and everything else I could use to commit suicide. I locked myself in my bedroom, completely shut off from the outside world, engrossed in my music for weeks, maybe even months. Time seemed to stand still, until I eventually pulled myself through it, all alone, and on my own again. Don't get me wrong, people who cared about me tried their best to help me, but I was so confused, hurt, and angry, their compassionate words felt empty, irrelevant, and unhelpful.
After a few more brief, failed relationships usually involving girls with father-figure issues broke up with me (and whom I was usually into way more than they were ever into me), I eventually met my wife online. She was so different than all of the others girls, and to her, I was different from all the other guys she attended public high school with. She seemed to really dig me, interested in getting to know me as a person, and attentively listened about my life, interests, and goals. We'd spend hours talking every night on the phone about life, the universe, and everything. I remember my phone bill would reach a few hundred dollars a month! But she was well worth it. We'd joke, and she'd laugh at my corny but sometimes odd humor. She fell so deeply and quickly in love with me from the start, a very dark part of me wanted to be with someone who loved me more than I loved them, so if things went wrong, I'd be the one to end it, and always have the "upper hand" in the relationship. Everything would be on my terms, and not theirs. I know, you don't have to tell me how that's very wrong on so many levels. But only until recently, I couldn't admit to myself that I actually did that. And no, choosing to be with someone who seemed to love me more than I did them wasn't my only agenda or motive. But I also can't deny that didn't play a factor, either.

Ironically, for the last 16 years, I thought my wife was the one who was "broken", and I was ok. But within the past week, through a lot of reflecting, talking, and crying, I've learned a lot about myself that I either didn't know, didn't want to know, or in complete denial about. She's a lot less "broken" than I am, nor did she ever deserve anything that I've put her through.



Chuck71 said:


> Have the two of you tried MC? Have each of you read 5 Love Languages?


I've already made an appointment today to see a marriage counselor for next week for both individual and couples sessions. And no, I haven't read 5 Love Languages, but I'll definitely look into it.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I admire your W. Very few come out of what she did with a positive approach.

I can relate to religion. I am a firm believer in God but I have issues with

"organized religion." Read through threads here. It will not take you long to read 

one and say, "This is me I am reading about." You have a number of things you 

have internalized for a long time. But guys were taught to be that way....

if you're hurt, suck it up, be a man, drink your problems away. 

That is very soul destroying. I want to recommend these books, some may 

have PDF links on-line

Married Man Sex Life Primer (is not a sex book)
No More Mr. Nice Guy
5 Love Languages

I can see you are searching for something. A great IC can help you

find what you are looking for. If the IC is there to "collect co-pays" then find another.


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## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Happilymarried25 said:


> Your lucky you have a wife that loves you so much. It sounds like you think of her as more of a friend than a lover. You are not ready to end your marriage. Don't destroy your family until you are sure. Your marriage sounds like a lot of marriages that goes through ups and downs. At least wait until your children are out of the house, they shouldn't have to go through a divorce because of your feelings.


I am extremely lucky that my wife loves me as much as she does, but years of neglect and indifference has changed her a lot. She still loves me tremendously, but unfortunately, I think she knows deep down inside that I don't love her the same, but I have tried so hard for 16 years to reflect her love for me. She also doesn't believe or trust me, not with infidelity, but that my intimate affections are fake, forced, and pressured to match hers. I suppose I do love her as a friend and as a companion, but I love her as much as any person could ever love their best friend.
I don't want to end my marriage, either, but for my own selfish reasons, and also for my kids. For me to continue this marriage, I have to ignore her happiness, her needs, her wants, and her desires. She's been ignoring all of those things off and on for the last 16 years, she's at her breaking point, and I don't think I can take too much more of her resentment or living in this regret. Her unhappiness is also affecting her relationship with our kids, too. She's been noticing lately that she's been having tendencies to be short with our kids, and quickly angered like her father. Tendencies she's been struggling with ever since we've been married, and has only intensified since we had kids. I think speaking with a marriage counselor will do us both a world of good.



Happilymarried25 said:


> You don't know if you will be happier alone. You may never find anyone else that loves you like your wife does. Your relationship with your children will never be the same and you will be blamed for splitting up your family. Hopefully MC will show you that you should stay in your marriage. If your wife felt the same way as you did then I would understand your position but it sounds like she loves you and wants to keep the marriage together.


No, I know I won't be happier living alone, and I know I'll never find anyone who will ever love me as much as she does. I love my kids so much, and the thought of having that conversation of separation/divorce in our living room... I'll probably break down only a few words into it.
My wife and I had a very productive conversation this morning after the kids went to school. First, even though we're going to the marriage counselor hoping to resolve our issues, the both of us know that this could go either way. If we stay together, there's a very likely chance it will be good for several weeks, several months, or even a year or two. But inevitably, unless the marriage counselor can provide some life-changing, earth-shattering insight, then we'll most likely end up here yet again, as we have many times, and then our marriage will be final. Neither one of us can to this again.
Because we know our history better than anyone else, we did talk about what would happen and what we would do if we were to separate, and even divorced. She promised me that we'd share custody of our kids. She also promised that she wouldn't ever take the kids away from me, or move back where her family lives 1,200 miles away. When her parents divorced, her mother moved several states away, and my wife would sometimes live with her mother, sometimes with her father, and sometimes she would be separated from her younger brother for months at a time. She doesn't ever want to do that to me or our kids. We would try to be as civilized and respectful with each other as much as possible.
She seems to be swinging 50%/50% chance of us either staying together or separating. Honestly, I feel that the chances of us still being together a year from now is slim to none, but I'm waiting to talk to the marriage counselor next week first before I disclose anything to my wife. For now, I'm simply agreeing with her on the matter. I think it's been one of the better decisions I've made regarding our marriage.


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## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Chuck71 said:


> I admire your W. Very few come out of what she did with a positive approach.


Me and a lot of other people, especially her close friends, admire her strength and perseverance.



Chuck71 said:


> I can relate to religion. I am a firm believer in God but I have issues with "organized religion." Read through threads here. It will not take you long to read one and say, "This is me I am reading about."


Yeah, don't get me started on religion. That's for a different forum.  But I am a very strong supporter of religious freedoms, and believe everyone has the right to believe and worship whatever and however they wish, as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others or their personal freedoms. But personally, I'm a nonbeliever.



Chuck71 said:


> You have a number of things you have internalized for a long time. But guys were taught to be that way.... if you're hurt, suck it up, be a man, drink your problems away. That is very soul destroying.


Yeah, my marriage counselor will get about 40 years of bottled-up emotions and feelings, from anger to sadness, and everything in between. Thank goodness I never turned to alcohol. I will have a beer or two before bedtime, but it's one thing I've always been able to control and manage well in my life. To temporarily escape from life's problems, I turn to music (I play drums, which is a great stress reliever), and played D&D (Dungeons & Dragons) before I had kids. Yes, I know the stigma of D&D (in which my father let me know on many occasions how he felt about it), but honestly, for me, it was a healthier alternative to alcohol/drugs, to role-play someone else, to pretend to be something I'm not, if just for a few hours. But my favorite type of character always played a support role in the party, helping his friends anytime they needed him, and loyal to the end. Unfortunately, in real life, I tend to exclude family and friends, and I'm not really sure why I do that. Even my wife has noticed how easy it is for me to drop people I've known for years, and go about my daily life as if they never mattered. She, on the other hand, is very loyal, and someone must have really wronged her terribly for her to mark them off. Even then, she's been known to give second and third chances.



Chuck71 said:


> I want to recommend these books, some may have PDF links on-line
> Married Man Sex Life Primer (is not a sex book)
> No More Mr. Nice Guy
> 5 Love Languages


Alright. Since I've been laid off, and don't have anything going on for the next couple of months, I've got plenty of time to read. 



Chuck71 said:


> I can see you are searching for something. A great IC can help you find what you are looking for. If the IC is there to "collect co-pays" then find another.


Sorry, but I'm not sure what you mean by "IC", but yes, I am confused, searching for something, and wondering aimlessly through life. I used to try to fill the void with computer games and other nonsense, but now I'm almost 40, that's lost it's enjoyment. I spend most of my days now doing housework, and helping my kids with their homework. It's not completely fulfilling, but it helps, and I feel like I'm making a positive difference, impact, and influence on my kids. What more could a parent ask for? 

Thank you for your time reading and responding.


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## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Well, "it" hit the fan last night. After hacking into my wife's cell phone, I found out that she has been talking very sexually to a few guys online, and met one of them physically twice. Unfortunately, this isn't the first time this has ever happened (as mentioned in my first post), but it wasn't this bad the first time around...

A long time ago, when we were having these same issues, she starting to reach out to strangers online, like I am now, to discuss our marital problems, seeking advice. She started talking to this one guy who seemed to genuinely care, and after a while, they started talking intimately to each other. While this was going on, I could tell that she became very possessive over her cell phone. She'd fall asleep with it in her hands at night, set a password on it (before it didn't have any security), and she was constantly texting on it. She either told me what was going on, or I found out (don't remember those details because it's been several years ago). Also as mentioned in my previous post, I sought revenge, and said and did some things with another girl whom specifically would hurt my wife. We were able to work through it, but without any professional help. Looking back, we should've, though. Fast forward several years to the present...

For the past while, I noticed that my wife was becoming very possessive over her phone again, like she did in the past. She put another password on it, and was texting continuously all of the time, even in the middle of the night. From previous experience, I knew something was going on, but I tried not to pry. About a week ago, I brought it to her attention, asked her "do you think I'm stupid?", and "I know what you're doing." When she didn't deny it, I knew she was talking to other guys about things a wife should never say to other men in a "closed" marriage. I just didn't know how bad it was. Jealously was eating me alive, every time I'd see her texting people right in front of me, but always careful not to let me see her type her password or the text conversation.
Last night, she had a headache, and took a couple of Tylenol PMs, which always knock her out. I knew it was my chance, and without giving too many details, I hacked into her phone, and saw all of the text messages... her SMS text messages, her private Facebook messages, her Yahoo Messenger messages, etc. Not only was she talking very sexually to someone, but to a few guys. I even read where she had met one of them twice. Although they never had intercourse, he did some sexual things to her, and she did some sexual things back. After reading as much as I could stomach, I went into the bedroom, turned on the light, shook her leg to wake her, and yelled "I know what you've been doing" while shaking her phone in my hand. I then threw the phone onto the bed next to her, and I went into high emotion mode, telling her everything I had read in detail while pacing around the room. Eventually, to both her and my surprise, I calmed down enough to where we could talk about it rationally. I began to ask questions, and she answered them, admitting there's no point lying about anything now.

But the years of neglect and indifference came full circle once again, just a lot worse this time around. I won't get into anything too detailed, but my wife admitted to me last night she has had specific fantasies and desires for the last 6 years that I could never fulfill because it goes against my own nature. I don't condemn consenting people who are into these type of fetishes, but I don't think I could ever do it. It's not a part of my personality, she knows that, and doesn't think less of me because of that. Even though I'm angry that these guys got involved with a married woman, I know where to shift the blame, who to point my finger at, for what she did. But I also don't deny my part. If I fulfilled all of her needs over the years, then she would've never looked for something else outside of our marriage.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

I recommend both of you seeing a MC ASAP. Admitting things is a huge step.

You both need to decide if you want to stay in the M or not. The reality of 

what she did will take awhile before it sets in. For you.... I strongly 

recommend reading this post. It is GOLD

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/24796-just-let-them-go.html

post your feelings here....post here what you want to say to your W

we can bounce suggestions

above all....remain

cool

firm

dispassionate


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## cdbaker (Nov 5, 2010)

Yikes, wow, yes you both need to get into MC, and don't move so quickly to blaming yourself.

I think any healthy sexually developed person develops certain fetishes of some kind over time, from mild to wild. That's perfectly fine/healthy. Hopefully your partner is willing to indulge in a couple of them if they aren't too far out of his/her comfort zone. I mean, if she wants to be blindfolded from time to time or for you to wear a Tarzan toga or something like that, then hopefully you can play along with that from time to time. If a fetish is too far out of his/her comfort zone however, or is unhealthy within a relationship, then that partner (the one with the fetish) needs to be willing to accept some boundaries.

[Crazy Example] If it just drives her wild for you to wear a clown mask during coitus, but a real life clown raped you as a child, then she just needs to understand that the clown mask is going in the trash and not coming back. Surely there are other fetishes/fantasies you can both indulge in from time to time instead. If her fantasy is to take part in lots and lots of unprotected gang bangs, which probably won't be conducive to a healthy marriage, then she just needs to accept that it shouldn't happen and there is NOTHING WRONG with you being inflexible on that.

If she just absolutely can't go on without taking part in those fantasies above (again, crazy example) then she needs to make that clear to you and consider parting amicably. Either way, the correct answer is not to meet up with other dudes behind your back to get her jollies addressed, and it is certainly NOT YOUR FAULT for her doing so.

Believe me, I get trying to find your share of the fault in any marital situation. That's a good thing. Lord knows you've made mistakes too, but she'll need to own her part in marriage counseling and if you are going to heal from this, she'll have to go through the full no-contact dance that every other cheating spouse should go through.


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## MickeyB (Oct 27, 2014)

Hello all,

Thank you for your time reading my long posts and giving me advice and guidance. A lot has happened in the past week since my last post, so I'll try to start where my last post ended.

Halloween was difficult, the both of us trick or treating with our kids together. She's constantly texting while I'm paying attention what's going on and trying to be involved. Unfortunately, it was probably the least enjoyable Halloween I've ever experienced with our kids, but despite my mood, I tried making the best out of it. I think our kids had fun, but not quite like our previous years.

One night, after putting the kids to bed, I couldn't handle the pain anymore. I needed relief, and we still had some left-over liquor from a company beach trip my wife and I went to during the summer. Unfortunately, I got drunk... really drunk. You don't have to tell me how irresponsible or stupid that was. If something bad had happened involving my kids, I was in no condition to handle it. My wife has never seen me like that before. Sure, I've been drunk only once before during our 16 years of marriage, but it was around friends, having a good time. Sometimes I'll drink a beer or two before bedtime, but even that isn't consistent. A 12 pack of beer usually lasts me for a couple of weeks, so she's NEVER came home to see me staggering drunk. EVER. I'm usually the responsible person at parties, holding hair back during vomiting, driving people home, and always taking care of others. So this was extremely outside my norm. As bad as that situation was, I realize now why people drink their problems away, because even though I was still hurting, it did offer a little escape from hurting so much. But I haven't done that since, nor will I ever. Since then, I poured out all of the liquor into the sink, and threw the liquor bottles away. I can't live with that temptation right now.

This past Saturday, after spending a couple of hours talking, I pushed my wife to get a place of her own. We started looking up nearby apartments on Craigslist, I would call landlords to check availability, and when we could see the apartment. I told her that the only way for me to heal and move on with my life was for her to not be in it. We also decided that now would be the best time to tell the kids that we're separating. Both of us were having a hard time, seeing our kids day in and day out, knowing what we had to tell them. I can't describe how hard that was, and how it devastated our kids to hear it. It took every ounce of strength for us to go through with the conversation, but we did, and as gracefully and compassionately as two loving parents could. After a lot of crying, hugging, and answering questions (without being too detailed), our kids settled down later that afternoon, and it became a somewhat, quasi-normal Saturday afternoon in our house, but with a dark cloud hovering over it.
That same Saturday, I drove over to my parents house to tell them of the awful news. After discussing details that only I felt they should know (they've known we've had marriage issues over the years, but I didn't discuss about my wife's recent infidelity), my father could tell how much pain I was in... how hurt I was. I kept repeating over and over "I don't love her the way she deserves to be loved" and "I love her, but I'm not IN love with her." My father questioned this by asking, "Son, if you're not in love with her, then why are you hurting so much? If you're not in love with her, why do you care so much?" Wow, talk about doing a double take. I knew he was right. It was like a something triggered for the first time in my head, my heart, and my soul. Not quite like a light bulb, but more like an explosion of clarity. Before in the past when she hurt me, sure I got angry. Sure it hurt. But this was killing me. Through all of life's tragedies, nothing has ever hurt me so much before. The last 16 years of confusion of how I loved my wife vanished. I admit, I know I haven't always been in love with her the last 16 years, but I know now beyond all certainty that I do, but unfortunately, it took something like this for me to realize that now. Crap. We've already made plans. We already told the kids. What do I do now? My father and I walked outside to have a more personal talk, just the two of us, something we've really never had before. After discussing other issues my wife and I had, he also made me realize I was confusing other emotions and feelings that has nothing to do with being in love. He also helped me realize how often other people have these same problems, it's not unique, and how him and my mother has faced similar issues themselves (minus the infidelity). I have never bonded with my father like that before. We talked more like two best friends than like father and son, and I love and respect him more now than I ever have before. He's a lot smarter and wiser than I have ever gave him credit for. Besides talking on this forum, he's been the greatest help for me through all of this.

From that conversation on, I saw my wife in a completely different light than I ever had before. I desired to hold her, to touch her, to talk to her. Her and the kids have even noticed my glances and stares, and it's completely taking her off guard, and perhaps a little uncomfortable. She's not used to that, since I've never been quite like that before with her, ever. In the past when we've had problems, I would make half attempts, and try to do better, but it was usually forced. Now I find myself petting her in her sleep, and nudging close to her. Not to sound too creepy, but I enjoy laying my head against her back, listening to her breathe, and listening to her heartbeat. I'm drawn to her more now than ever, and it's terrifying me, knowing the place that we're currently in our marriage, knowing what the outcome could be. Before, I was going to the marriage counselor with intent of dissolving our marriage. I wanted a separation. I wanted her to move out. But now, that's completely changed for me. Now more than ever, I want to be in her life, if that's even possible at this point.

My wife and I went to the marriage counselor on Monday. Luckily, the next couple cancelled their appointment, so we were given 2 hours instead of just 1 without being charged extra (really good place another cousin of mine recommended). After hearing our stories, the marriage counselor wasn't very keen on us separating. She also made it be known to my wife that she wasn't very keen on her continuing to talk to this other guy she had physically met with a couple of times. My wife also admitted that she doesn't believe me that the affection, attention, and attraction I've been displaying since Saturday would last, either. That hurt, but I knew it would be a very long, difficult road. It also hurt knowing that she was still talking to this other guy.

Another emotion I've been trying to deal with lately that I never fully experienced with my wife before is jealousy. In the past, sure, I'd get a little jealous, but not like this. Knowing that she's still talking to that other guy drives me absolutely crazy insane. It completely consumes me at times. I'll try to do other things not to think about it, such doing a load of dishes or laundry, but nothing helps. Since I originally found out what she had done, my jealousy-driven madness led me to find out this guy's first and last name, and what city he lives in. No, I know what you're probably thinking, but I haven't done anything with this information, and I'm not planning to. But I'll be honest, it's been very tempting. Since then, my wife has also found out that he lied to her, that he's still married and not divorced, and not planning to divorce his wife anytime soon. Yes, I admit, I was a little relieved when I found that out. I was so close to the edge, I was ready to get a motel room last night, and call a divorce lawyer the next morning because I didn't think I could handle another day, another week, or another month being with her and knowing she's still talking to him. After talking it through, she told me that she'll stop talking to him, at least until we separate. Although I'm not pleased about this arrangement, it at least seems that it's on the back burner for now. I'm really trying to trust her, but at this point in our marriage, if trust is a two-way street, ours contain a roadblock and a detour.

Since then, we've been going through our roller coaster of ups and downs. We've been "together" twice since my first post. The first time was more about her fetish, to see if I could do it, and for me to experience what she's been fascinated by for the last several years. Not only did I enjoy it, but I think I took her off guard, since I originally acted completely turned off and put off by it when she first mentioned it to me. I've also been researching about it, trying to learn more, and to be honest, even though it's a little outside of my comfort zone, I think it's something that not only I can do and enjoy, but eventually be very good at. When she first tried to tell me about it, she told me about a "head space" she goes into. After researching it, someone else online described it as a "euphoric state of mind" without involving any alcohol or drugs. Some of you reading this might know what I'm talking about. After witnessing this "head space" she went into and noticing when she immediately came out of it, I now find myself very intrigued by this "head space". And after sharing that experience with me for the first time in the 16 years of our marriage, she told me that she's "more confused now than she's ever been before." I can only hope that's positive. The second time we were "together" was last night. I woke her from her sleep, something I've rarely ever done before, and she seemed really into it. One of her deepest desires is to feel hot, sexy, and irresistible. Of course, that goes without saying for any woman, really, but they're needs that I rarely ever satisfied for her.

I want to fulfill as many of her desires, needs, and wants as possible. I've been reading a book called "His Needs, Her Needs" a lot lately in my spare time. My father's been trying to get me to read it for years now, but until recently, I never really cared to. But reading this book has been a great help for me understanding both my needs and hers, and how important these needs are, even if they don't seem important to the other. I've realized that for the last 16 years, I've been putting my needs ahead of hers. Since she's been fulfilling my needs more than I did hers, and I was content enough to keep living this same way. If I'm ok, then why bother? I've been extremely selfish, and not caring about satisfying her needs, and not just sexually. For the first time during our marriage, I find that fulfilling her needs help fulfill my own. I want her to feel loved, desired, and wanted in so many different ways, and on so many different levels. For the first time during our marriage, I truly desire to fulfill her needs. But I fear I'm 16 years too late.


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## Chuck71 (Nov 5, 2012)

In the end....what do you want to happen? What steps will be taken to curb

her itch to sext with other guys? The reason why she was talking to other guys

has to be addressed. If not, it will go away....for awhile. It will rear it's head later.


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## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

You suddenly started desiring your wife again because you found out someone ELSE desired her. Psychology 101. If she stops cheating, you'll go right back to wishing you were somewhere else.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Your sudden desire for your wife is completely normal and guaranteed to be temporary. It's your ego that has been hurt and is pushing you to somehow gain the upperhand back. It's a cycle.


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