# struggling with transparency



## HealthyMe (Jul 2, 2012)

The last D-day was one week ago, when I learned that the past 9 months of R were false, that my WH was continuing the PA the whole time. The no-contact letter has been written and sent. I'm setting up an appointment with an attorney. In the meantime, we're working on figuring out how to do full transparency, but no matter what we decide to put in place, there will always be loopholes. Right? In fact, installing spyware on his iphone and ipad could just force him to keep communication isolated to his desk phone and/or some private email he accesses through his work computer. Right? So, why bother.

I feel hopeless. I'm not sure that full transparency is achievable in our case.

FYI - I have a VAR in his car, which is how I discovered the PA was still on. WH doesn't know what kind of technology I used to unearth this information - he thinks maybe his cell is bugged or that I hired a PI. So, even the VAR is not much help at this point b/c WH knows not to use his cell.

WH is acting truly remorseful, answering all questions I ask, etc. but I am not in a state of mind to even trust my observations.

Any advice?


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## AngryandUsed (Jun 23, 2011)

Do you have a hope of R, if he continues to cheat you physically, having contact with his AP?


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## wiigirl (Jun 14, 2012)

Keep keeping tabs on him....information is power...









_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## iheartlife (Apr 4, 2012)

Have you informed his family about the affair?


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## survivorwife (May 15, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> The last D-day was one week ago, when I learned that the past 9 months of R were false, that my WH was continuing the PA the whole time. The no-contact letter has been written and sent. I'm setting up an appointment with an attorney. In the meantime, we're working on figuring out how to do full transparency, but no matter what we decide to put in place, there will always be loopholes. Right? In fact, installing spyware on his iphone and ipad could just force him to keep communication isolated to his desk phone and/or some private email he accesses through his work computer. Right? So, why bother.
> 
> I feel hopeless. I'm not sure that full transparency is achievable in our case.
> 
> ...


WOW! So you are saying that 9 months ago you discovered he was having an affair? And you decided to reconcile, however he was still seeing the OW during that time?

So, was he "remorseful" then, or is he "remorseful" now and what is the difference between when he is "remorseful" and when he is "truly remorseful"?

I would submit that your observations are about the only thing you can trust. And you are right. You could put tabs on his cell phone, but who is to say he wouldn't buy a burner phone to use exclusively to continue the affair.

Wouldn't you say the real issue here is trust? If you can't trust him (and evidence suggests that you can't) then why bother reconciling? Perhaps you could shake him up with a hard 180, ignore him, file for divorce, take care of yourself and then see how he acts.

And you are right and smart as well. Never reveal your "source" (the VAR, etc.).

I truly wish I could help you, but I don't know if you can trust your H to tell you the absolute truth. I will say this though. You said you don't know whether you can trust your own observations. I'm betting that you can trust them above all else.

Best of luck to you.


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## Cyber Cheating Stinks (Jun 21, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> I feel hopeless. I'm not sure that full transparency is achievable in our case.
> 
> FYI - I have a VAR in his car, which is how I discovered the PA was still on. WH doesn't know what kind of technology I used to unearth this information - he thinks maybe his cell is bugged or that I hired a PI. So, even the VAR is not much help at this point b/c WH knows not to use his cell.


So sorry you are going through this. My WH who pledged full transparency joined a live chat line in our state. His status on his profile is "dating". I found out today, after going through the whole "I'll never do that again" thing. It's killing me. So what is a VAR, and where do I get one? He is probably meeting his "date" and I would like to know if he is bringing home a social disease?


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Yes, there will always be holes in anyone's surveillance where the cheaters can take the affair deeper underground, of that there's no doubt. One of the points of verification is to make any attempt to continue or restart the affair thru fishing, as difficult as possible. 

Let's take the terrorist situation as an analogy. The US's intelligence agencies can't possibly monitor every terrorist organization or prevent every possible plot from happening. But should we just lay down and say "Why bother? Its going to happen anyway" No, we keep up our guard.

Very experienced cheaters can keep the affair going, but they can only do that by keeping the affair at a very very low level. And that's not very satisfying for them. One of the affair dynamics I've observed here and cheating sites is the constant need to be in communication with the affair partner. Its part of that rush of being in love or being in the fog. Its like being teenagers again, exchanging thousands of texts, emails, phone calls, etc. Sooner or later, they will slip up because of their need to contact their affair partner.

Its the very experienced cheaters who have been in Long Term Affairs (LTA) that you have to be very wary of. They've learned to control that need to be in constant communication, and keep their contacts few and discreet. Those types of WS can easily avoid detection. 

With all that said, you've done what you can do. The number one rule of surveillance is to never reveal your sources, which you're doing a great job at. Just continue the verification, he may slip up sooner or later if he's still in the affair.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

Cyber Cheating Stinks said:


> So sorry you are going through this. My WH who pledged full transparency joined a live chat line in our state. His status on his profile is "dating". I found out today, after going through the whole "I'll never do that again" thing. It's killing me. So what is a VAR, and where do I get one? He is probably meeting his "date" and I would like to know if he is bringing home a social disease?


Here are some examples:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Philips+-+Voice+Tracer+Digital+Voice+Recorder/2596305.p?id=1218338417967&skuId=2596305

Sony ICDBX112 Digital Voice Recorder, 2GB Digital Voice Recorder, Flash Voice Recorder, Sony Digital Voice Recorder

Audio Recording Pen | Audio Surveillance | Cheaters Spy Shop


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## M2lngha1 (Jul 26, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> The last D-day was one week ago, when I learned that the past 9 months of R were false, that my WH was continuing the PA the whole time. The no-contact letter has been written and sent. I'm setting up an appointment with an attorney. In the meantime, we're working on figuring out how to do full transparency, but no matter what we decide to put in place, there will always be loopholes. Right? In fact, installing spyware on his iphone and ipad could just force him to keep communication isolated to his desk phone and/or some private email he accesses through his work computer. Right? So, why bother.
> 
> I feel hopeless. I'm not sure that full transparency is achievable in our case.
> 
> ...


You aren't in a position to trust him right now. Your actions speaks loud and clear but all the technology you want to put in place for observation purposes. Is this how you want your relationship to be moving forward? Cloak and dagger, who has the upper hand for manipulation purposes? This isn't a marriage, this is a living hell! Both of you need to be asking yourselves some serious questions, like, am I happy with our current situation? Do I trust him enough? If he's still showing signs of infidelity then he needs to ask himself if he really wants to be part of this marriage anymore! Transparency is the least of your problems from what I'm reading. Both of you need some counseling!


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## Sara8 (May 2, 2012)

HealthyMe said:


> The last D-day was one week ago, when I learned that the past 9 months of R were false, that my WH was continuing the PA the whole time. The no-contact letter has been written and sent. I'm setting up an appointment with an attorney. In the meantime, we're working on figuring out how to do full transparency, but no matter what we decide to put in place, there will always be loopholes. Right? In fact, installing spyware on his iphone and ipad could just force him to keep communication isolated to his desk phone and/or some private email he accesses through his work computer. Right? So, why bother.
> 
> I feel hopeless. I'm not sure that full transparency is achievable in our case.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear this. 

I agree though, if the spouse is technically savvy, it's difficult to use techie spy techniques and there are so many ways around them. 

And as LM said the LTA cheaters are the ones who can keep it secret the best.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

You can never get knowledge of every single thing he does 24/7 unless you do something completely radical like hire someone to follow him 24/7, don't allow him to leave your side, install hidden cameras on his clothing, hire a personal satellite, etc. It's not possible.

So what it boils down to, is that you have to take the leap and stop worrying. The only way you can do that is if, by their every action, the WS is proving to you over and over that they are trustworthy. They must be apologetic and TRULY remorseful - they must never get angry if you trigger - in fact they must WANT to help you when you do. It's an attitude.

You can feel true remorse. It's like an aura that the WS emits. It's their entire demeanor and everything about them - you can just TELL that they would grab you the moon if you asked.

Unless this atmosphere exists, I doubt R - true R where the BS WANTS to be with the WS - can happen.


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## brokenbythis (Aug 21, 2011)

Hell.. at least he is willing to be somewhat transparent. When I asked my husband for transparency, he told me to go f*&k myself, packed his bags and left. Then he went over to his EA's house because "she is such a good listener".

But he says he still loves me! Ha!


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## HealthyMe (Jul 2, 2012)

Thanks to everyone for your replies. For those of you who have intalled keyloggers, did you tell your WS? Or is it best to let that be a private form of verification? Thanks.


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## lordmayhem (Feb 7, 2011)

HealthyMe said:


> Thanks to everyone for your replies. For those of you who have intalled keyloggers, did you tell your WS? Or is it best to let that be a private form of verification? Thanks.


The first rule of surveillance is to never ever reveal your sources. If you let him know there's a keylogger on the computer, then he's not going to use that computer if he's still in the affair. He'll use other means like his smart phone. 

My fWW doesn't know I have a keylogger and she's never asked. She probably wouldn't even think about something like that. She just knows I'm good with computers.


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