# Finally. The story of a Two Time Loser



## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

I never really went into detail about my story, on this board. I guess that is because I felt for a while that it wouldn’t help anyone to know about my cases. Since I have been here I have read a whole bunch of stories where D-Day hits and people come here seeking answers, support or advice. Being that I have posted hundreds of times, I think i should share. 

To really give advice, I think people need to live through it and experience their advice failing or working. It is as important to know what not to do, as it is to know what to do. I can safely say that I have been on both sides of that fence. 

If this story helps anyone, then I would like to share.

*Wife #1 (PA)*
Long before ever reading the 5 Love Languages, I was a physical touch person. When I met my first wife, we were extremely sexual which I interpreted as love. This sexual activity brought about an unplanned pregnancy and being a good Italian boy I offered my hand in marriage. Unbeknownst to me, the cheating started during our short engagement and continued through the entire union. When my second child came, I was still oblivious to the many indiscretions of my wife. She and I lived a fairly modest life, we never really had much money and that was the cause of many arguments. She was a Gifts person, and I had little or no means to provide that.

She got a job at a diner and began coming home later each night, sometimes intoxicated while I was at home worrying with the children. Friends of hers showed concern and mentioned to me that something may be going on, but I refused to believe that I could fail at a marriage. After all, I knew everything there was to know about communication and the human dynamic, but I failed to use that knowledge in the slightest. Eventually my wife’s behavior got the best of her, and she hooked up with one of her friends boyfriends. Under threat to reveal the truth, she came clean to me.

On D-Day, I did not take the news well. We were talking over 25 men she had slept with over 5 years. Some people go through the whole spectrum of emotions. I went through all of them as well, but in about 30 seconds. After 30 seconds I went directly to rage, do not collect $200 do not pass go. I stayed in rage.

She had gotten behind on her car payments, so I got her car repossessed at work; I decorated my lawn in her things and changed the locks. I got an emergency restraining order and custody of the children. I destroyed every relationship she had with her family, friends and job. I crushed her in court with no mercy, and I would not stop until she was homeless and dying. –I was the hand of vengeance, a very unpleasant person. I did everything that every betrayed spouse wishes they had the guts to do, and worse.

Eventually she ended up homeless as I had hoped. She was hooked on drugs, and with a boyfriend who put her in the hospital not 1, not 2 but 3 times. I then offered her $1000 to sign over the rights to motherhood as a final nail in her coffin. I am sure she spent the money on drugs. 

She never called the kids and the only time I made contact with her, was 2 months after the divorce was final. I called her one last time to let her know I had hit 5 out of 6 on the Powerball (six figures) and ended the phone call singing Toby Keith’s “How do you like me now”

That was over 20 years ago. I am not that kind of person these days, and if I am being honest, I do regret doing that for my soul’s sake. I have asked forgiveness from God and her, but I learned a lot during that time. It damaged me pretty bad, and I never really healed until a few years ago. Sadly, I would never address those problems until my second wife cheated on me.

*Wife #2 (EA)*
I learned a lot, as I said, from my first marriage. I learned not to trust women, not to invest emotionally in them, I learned to punish my new wife for the sins my past wife had committed and I learned to detach instantly from another human being. That may seem like a handy skill but it prevents you from ever achieving happiness. 

My wife and I led a pretty interesting life. We moved to Maine, Kansas, Missouri California and Florida. We had the big wedding that I never had before and support from a family, unlike Marriage #1. We were pretty happy for the first 2-3 years as most couples are. Then her father died. She became withdrawn and in response, I withdrew also. She would sit alone and go through the motions of life; I dove into an online game spending hours a night playing. 

Eventually she would come out of her slump, but I remained in my own world, detached from her and even my kids. I missed school plays for dungeon raids, Family get together events for video game friends and although I never had any female interests online, I was definitely devoid of any emotional support for my family. I was a paycheck.

Our life took many turns and she remained faithful through them all. She simply decided to detach as well. She would go to all kinds of things with the kids and I would be the husband that everyone heard about but never saw. 

One day, I lost my job, and decided to buy an art gallery. I had saved up a lot; after all I was not out spending it. The strain of a new business meant longer hours and as she began to fight for the smallest amount of attention to the bare necessities, I withdrew further into my games. It was at this point that she realized something. If she wanted to talk to me, she had to play too. This was where she had her EA.

When I found out, it was a shock to the system. The first emotion I felt in years was centered on an EA. Needless to say, I handled this differently. 

I am a person who takes personal responsibility for my actions. Before I look to others for blame, I always look to myself. This is why cheaters who say “He drove me to it” infuriate me so much. I looked at myself hard… I was a lousy husband. But Even then, I realized that I did not deserve that. What I deserved was for her to divorce me and then find happiness for herself. I deserved to be alone, not cheated on. 

She knew about the past. This was the way she could hurt me the most. She sent nude pictures, Got off on the phone with him, sent texts, emails and made calls for 3 months. She revealed it to me when the OM’s wife threatened her to reveal it to me. 

I was instantly present again. Being that I knew that I now had 3 kids, and had nearly 10 years invested with her, I decided not to embrace rage as my first response. I responded in sorrow. I felt incredibly guilty for making her become that distant to me, But I did not and still do not feel guilty for her cheating. 

I made appointments with marriage counselors, pastors and bought some books. I dug through the garage and read my old college text books on human relations again. I went through a major program and faced incredibly painful things to establish a clear state of mind. Tony Robbins really helped me out there. 

Once my mind was clear I made the decision to save the marriage. I was more prepared for this than most of you folks. I already knew that I could crush her if I wanted to. I had already been through the devastation of a hobag wife. I already knew the worst thing that could happen. I knew that I could survive all of it. That is what helped me decide to save it.

Once the decision was made, every action I took was in honor of that decision. I refused to take “no” for an answer. I pushed for days to get an answer and eventually she agreed to commit to the marriage. That was the moment that things got better for us. I got her on the phone, speaker on… she told this guy to screw off and leave her alone. Having seen how sly women can be, I insisted on this and then we talked about transparency. She gave me everything I asked for and changed her phone number too. Even closed email accounts. In return I sold my game account and took her on a very nice date. 

I finally remembered all the things I knew as a human relation professional. Each time we would argue, we exchanged letters to prevent an argument. Many things got accomplished that way… without the yelling. We read the 5 love languages book and discussed each chapter. We set up date nights, and I got involved in her life again. 

The way this affair affect me was bitter sweet. On the one hand I grew in 1000 ways. I lost weight, regained my self-image after healing up and I have my family back. On the down side, I know that my wife has the capacity to cheat. I will never fully trust her. Even though I was a lousy husband, I didn’t deserve to be betrayed, I deserved to be abandoned. As a result of this betrayal, I have suppressed that rage, but not without it exposing its head a bit. I have prepared a file on my wife. A file that would crush her, give me custody again and protect my interests. It is because that file exists that I have the capacity to forgive her and let my guard down. 

Some people may say that I don’t really love my wife, if I would do that. I can see that point of view. But I am a Two Time Loser. It has already been “shame on me”. And the fact remains that I was able to change. I was able to evolve. She will never be able to “un-cheat” I have said that forgiveness is “not making them pay” for what happened. In that respect I have forgiven my wife. I never bring it up, I never make her feel guilty and I never use it as an excuse to behave badly. That is forgiveness. What I have not given her is trust.

My wife and I are doing fine today. It has been a couple years since everything happened and we are going strong. We go on dates, communicate really well and we are even planning our retirement together. I am almost 40. I learned through life that there are right ways and wrong ways to handle things. What you do and what you don’t do matter. There is never an excuse for cheating. And a marriage can be healed. 

As I approach the 2000 word mark, I realize that I should close this up. I left out a lot of the details of saving my marriage, but I assure you that it can be done by two people who really want to save it. It is never a question of ability, only motivation. 

I have been the good husband. I have been the bad husband. I have been cheated on physically. I have been cheated on emotionally. I have divorced. I have saved a marriage. I have forgiven the unforgivable. I have been the hand of vengeance. If you have any questions, just ask. I guarantee I have been there…Probably twice.

TWOTIMELOSER


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> On the down side, I know that my wife has the capacity to cheat. I will never fully trust her. TWOTIMELOSER


You now know she has the capacity to cheat, and you have the capacity to be a bad husband. If you can change, which you have, she can too, which she did. 

My question is, how do you feel about your marriage now? Do you still honor it like you did when you were first married? Are you proud to tell people you're married to your wife?

I'm asking because people always ask me how my wife and I are doing, and I say great, but it's like getting slapped in the face to be honest. You're far more recovered than my wife and I will ever be, but I'm just wondering if your marriage has gotten stronger since this ordeal.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

WoW can really be a marriage killer can't it.


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## Indy Nial (Sep 26, 2010)

WoW didn't kill my marriage just maimed it 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

paramore said:


> WoW can really be a marriage killer can't it.


Yeah it can, Before we got married it almost killed our relationship. BUT, we are using it right now as a means to be together once in a while. Our problem was, she quit years ago (for school), and I did not. After our babies go to bed every other night or so we go on the couch and just play together. I am a lot more aware now what it can do, so as soon as I notice it is doing harm it will be cut off.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> You now know she has the capacity to cheat, and you have the capacity to be a bad husband. If you can change, which you have, she can too, which she did.
> 
> My question is, how do you feel about your marriage now? Do you still honor it like you did when you were first married? Are you proud to tell people you're married to your wife?
> 
> I'm asking because people always ask me how my wife and I are doing, and I say great, but it's like getting slapped in the face to be honest. You're far more recovered than my wife and I will ever be, but I'm just wondering if your marriage has gotten stronger since this ordeal.


Thats a really good question.. both of them.

Am I proud to be married to my wife? The best way I can i describe it is like this: I have pleasant thoughts about her all the time, an when i talk about her i say "My wife is fantastic" What I think is more like "My wife is fantastic, BBBUUUUTT...."

That is how it is and will probably always be. I have decided that I can live with that, so it isn't perfect but it is acceptable.

Has my marriage gotten stronger?

In every single way but trust, yes. Trust took a hit that it wont fully recover from, but everything else is miles ahead of where it ever was, even in the best of times at the beginning.

Think of it this way, You own a broken down 64 mustang... You love the car and you always have... You get hit by a drunk and the car gets Smashed to hell. When you get it out of the shop, it looks like it was fully restored... except for one thing. There is a tennis ball size dent in the rear bumper. Nobody really knows it is there, but you do. You are proud of your car, the thing runs stronger and looks better than ever but inside you know it isn't really perfect. Stronger? Yes. Perfect? No.

I would say this: Most people fail to understand that our spouses are not perfect. There are good people who cheat and feel remorse, and there are bad people who cheat and feel entitled. My first wife felt entitles, my second felt remorse. You have to determine if your spouse is a good soul before you decide anything. Look at them as a person, not a spouse, and ask yourself "would i have this person for a friend?" IF not... then you have an easy choice.

That knowledge in the back of my head reminds me that my wife is not perfect. And though I can not trust her completely, it helps me forgive her for the daily trespasses that she does.. that everyone does day in and day out. It allows me to not look at her as an evil individual but rather a person who means no harm.

As far as "she can change"... I think of it like this: Alcoholics can change their behavior but they are always alcoholics. She too, can change her behavior, but we have to keep it under scrutiny and in check to make sure she doesn't fall off the wagon. She has had a taste of the "spark" couples get from a new relationship. That chemical reaction of Oxytocin that makes up the "honeymoon" phase. It is highly addictive and we both check in on it frequently. Years after reading the love languages, we still ask weekly "how is your love tank?" Some times we have to bring it up, other times we are fine. 

Hope that answers that.


When couples have a shot... when they both want to try... I always encourage it. I know how good it can be, even without 100% trust. I firmly believe that most people do not know how to be married. That most people do not know the purpose for marriage. When they start working on it, real progress is made.


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## Powerbane (Nov 8, 2010)

Bigwayneo said:


> Yeah it can, Before we got married it almost killed our relationship. BUT, we are using it right now as a means to be together once in a while. Our problem was, she quit years ago (for school), and I did not. After our babies go to bed every other night or so we go on the couch and just play together. I am a lot more aware now what it can do, so as soon as I notice it is doing harm it will be cut off.


I totally agree. W0W damn near killed mine too. 

I've been off it for close to a year now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

a lot of former WOW related things going on...

Is this our new guild? LOL (couldnt resist)


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> a lot of former WOW related things going on...
> 
> Is this our new guild? LOL (couldnt resist)


:lol::lol::lol::rofl::rofl::rofl::smthumbup:


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

LOL!!!!! What's the guilds name? I have two pretty decent 85's now, I can enchant the heck out of stuff hehe. I still play the game, but usually only when husband is on, and he wants to run stuff, I went from all day everyday for a long time, to maybe 3-4 hours a week with the exception of last Saturday, when the husband wanted to run some stuff, I had nothing else going on, so we had a blast. I haven't been on since Sunday. No wait, I take that back, I let son make a DK, and I spent a couple of hours helping him get out of starting area, and he's played on my account a couple of times, basically he runs around Booty Bay and kills stuff haha.


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## Shooboomafoo (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks for the post TwoTime.
Any room in the guild for my CallofDuty character?


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Oh I am sure he can make some room lol


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

paramore said:


> WoW can really be a marriage killer can't it.


FOr those of you that think WoW doesnt effect a person negatively, I present to you Exhibit #1.

Enjoy

YouTube - Greatest freak out ever (ORIGINAL VIDEO)


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## AppleDucklings (Mar 27, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your story, TTL. Though everyone's story here is not exactly the same, we all have similarities.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow, twotime, that video left me speechless, I could cancel the account right now with no regret, LOL!!!!


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## WhereAmI (Nov 3, 2010)

Does it make you wonder if she has a file on you? If she noted all of the times you chose gaming over your family, would you be as confident that you'd gain custody? Under what circumstances would you use the file?


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## it-guy (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the story TwoTime. Really means a lot to me.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Two I'm curious what happened to your first wife. Do her kids have any contact with her. Have you ever or will you ever assist her financially if she falls on bad times?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

WhereAmI said:


> Does it make you wonder if she has a file on you? If she noted all of the times you chose gaming over your family, would you be as confident that you'd gain custody? Under what circumstances would you use the file?


1. If she has a file on me, it can only help.

2. In the years since then, I have been the primary caregiver for the children. I spend about 4 times the amount of time with my kids than her. If there wasn't some very damning evidence in the file, it wouldn't exist. so I am pretty sure I would have custody. Not to mention 2 kids are mine from marriage 1, and that would mean splitting up the kids. I could go on, but i dont want to bore you with details. Point is, I am solid as a parent and I doubt she would have a chance.

3. I'd use the file is she cheated again or if we left each other on bad terms.


on a side note:

I am fairly happy and have no use for the file, i hope i never do. But what she taught me, what i learned from her.. was that no matter how much you love someone, you need to be prepared to go to war. Either for that person, or against that person. I am prepared for both. 

My wife is happier than any woman i know. HER WORDS, NOT MINE. I send her flowers every month at work, I take her to new places every week... from food places we have never been to, to dancing, pottery classes and gallery showings... we even go to off the wall sporting evens and concerts.. never the same place twice. from love notes on the steering wheel, to taking her to lunch at work 3 times a week, the love never stops. She says i am a beast in bed and her love tank is always overflowing. I fully embraced the changes I need to make, and she did too. Hell - look at my before and after photos in my profile.. I dont even look the same!! It is like she is having an affair with her own husband. She is beyond happy and she texts me all the time to tell me. Even sends me risqué photos from time to time. 

I find nothing wrong with having the file and being happy. You know why? Because as screwed up as i was for a while.. I still didn't think she would cheat. If she chooses to lose this, or if fall off the wagon and she doesn't tell me first.. That file will be there. It is my security blanket. It is what allows me to stop worrying about "what if she cheats?" - Because i know what will happen if she does. Total Annihilation.

I sleep well at night.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Two I'm curious what happened to your first wife. Do her kids have any contact with her. Have you ever or will you ever assist her financially if she falls on bad times?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


What a great question. 

1. My ex hasnt talked to the kids in years. I never prevented her from contacting them, infact on many occasions i made a great effort to offer chances for her to see them. No dice.

2. Would I help her with money? She would never ask me. She has never helped out in any way with the kids... I doubt she would ask. But if she did, the answer would be no. 

Are you asking me a different question here? Like.. do I hate her or something? The money thing seemed a little random.


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## ladyybyrd (Jan 4, 2011)

My H and I play WoW too =) Only play on the days he is off though.


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## ladyybyrd (Jan 4, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> I am fairly happy and have no use for the file, i hope i never do. But what she taught me, what i learned from her.. was that no matter how much you love someone, you need to be prepared to go to war. Either for that person, or against that person. I am prepared for both.


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Good for you twotime, still waiting on the guild name though LOL!!!! BTW Grizzly Hills here!!! stop by and say hi sometime!!!!! hehe.


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## Gfxbss (Dec 24, 2010)

Happily neither of us has gotten into WoW. I am just one of those weird little geeks that wants a water cooled tower not because he will actually use the extra speed from being able to over clock the processor more, but only because he can....


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

I want to know how my story of personal anguish turned in a discussion on video games.

you guys are so mean to me!!!

:smthumbup:*JUST KIDDING!!*:smthumbup:

I was guild leader of the #2 ranked guild on Windrunner.But my point was not about WOW.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> I was guild leader of the #2 ranked guild on Windrunner.But my point was not about WOW.



And you're not a virgin? Remarkable.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Runs like Dog said:


> And you're not a virgin? Remarkable.


As part of my ongoing self esteem boosting techniques i do the following: (ask my wife, this 100% truth)

I walk down the stairs, grab my iced cappuccino and look myself in the great big mirror and say "you are one sexy beeotch"

No, I am not a virgin. Sexy Beeotches are not virgins.


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## Gfxbss (Dec 24, 2010)

> I want to know how my story of personal anguish turned in a discussion on video games.


Well fine then...

I suppose my biggest stress is the fact that we are not married at this point. I thought that we had agreed that marriage was nothing more than symbolic and that it didn't mean anything. That being said, I now know that that isn't true. She used to make comments about wanting a ring.... not even a minute later, she would be talking about how she doesn't ever want to be married.... What can I say? I didn't know what to do...

Now I know what she wants. At least long term. My question is, how can I actually marry a woman who has betrayed me? I love our daughter, and I love my SO, but how can I make a life long commitment to her....

Gfx


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

twotimeloser said:


> What a great question.
> 
> 1. My ex hasnt talked to the kids in years. I never prevented her from contacting them, infact on many occasions i made a great effort to offer chances for her to see them. No dice.
> 
> ...


The money question is not at all idle - I actually felt more sympathy for your children and their mother, your ex wife, than for you. I guess I see it this way - she cheated on you and you figuratively murdered her - you blotted her out of the life of your kids in your thirst for revenge. I suppose i see the relationship between a parent and child more important than the relationship problems between their parents. The punishment of her and you children did not fit the crime. 

She insulted your manhood - you could have stopped short of pounding her to the ground and leave the possibility that your children could possibly have a relationship with their mother. The vision of her living in the street, and her children seeing or knowing about her living conditions. What was the reaction of your children to being separated from their mother at such a young age. Did they know that she lived in the street, furthermore do they know now that she ended up in the street at your behest? What do they think of you and what story did you tell them about their mother.

As i see it, You took things that did not belong to you - your childrens mother and her only crime was to that she has sex with other men. For that her children grew up thinking what ?? about 1/2 of their personal identity? 

It was almost too easy to pound her down - like a man pummeling a woman with his fist in front of her children. Probably no one will agree with me but, you owe her, she cheated on you and you had every right to leave her but you had no right to destroy her and by extension your children. The identity of children are derived from both parents, the fact that she was beaten down by you may have effected her ability to keep the relationship with her children. Living in the street being hounded by a vengeful man was not conducive to maintaining a houshold to gain custody of kids. Which is why you made sure she ended up in the street??

Sorry I just tried to imagine what her children were thinking and if anyone bothered to put them first. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Gfxbss (Dec 24, 2010)

Cat,



> That was over 20 years ago. I am not that kind of person these days, and if I am being honest, I do regret doing that for my soul’s sake. I have asked forgiveness from God and her, but I learned a lot during that time. It damaged me pretty bad, and I never really healed until a few years ago. Sadly, I would never address those problems until my second wife cheated on me.


It seems to me that 2x is non to proud of what he did. That being said, he feels that he did what he had to do. 

Is he proud? No.

Is he happy? Yes, but mostly because he has his girls.....

I'll let him retort, because as always, I could be wrong.

Gfx


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Yes I read this too but I still think of his kids. Children don't divorce parents in fact they seldom forget a parent even one that is absent. Children and adults generally search for answers about a missing parent because they want to know why the parent did not love them enough to stay. And curiosity is another reason children seek out a missing parent. They want to know who they themselves are and they look to their family to provide some answers. 

I read that he is sorry but I wonder if he realizes what his actions did to his children, even if they seem ok on the surface. I wonder if his sorrow is deep enough to make amends by talking to his children and letting them know that he drove their mother away just for cheating on him and he realizes he was wrong to make it difficult for her to keep up with them and to do that to another human. He says that he gave her a chance to keep in contact but how long did it take him to get over his rage do that? Was it after years telling them what? She did not contact them - but what were they told and what effort did he make to be certain the children saw their mother. Sure he did not have to do anything it was up to her - but given that she was hounded into the streets she and her children are owed some compensation. Did he facilitate their keeping in touch, not for her sake but for theirs. Some parents would never do this and if they did they would be active in making it right not just say that she could contact them.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> The money question is not at all idle - I actually felt more sympathy for your children and their mother, your ex wife, than for you. I guess I see it this way - she cheated on you and you figuratively murdered her - you blotted her out of the life of your kids in your thirst for revenge. I suppose i see the relationship between a parent and child more important than the relationship problems between their parents. The punishment of her and you children did not fit the crime.
> 
> She insulted your manhood - you could have stopped short of pounding her to the ground and leave the possibility that your children could possibly have a relationship with their mother. The vision of her living in the street, and her children seeing or knowing about her living conditions. What was the reaction of your children to being separated from their mother at such a young age. Did they know that she lived in the street, furthermore do they know now that she ended up in the street at your behest? What do they think of you and what story did you tell them about their mother.
> 
> ...




couple things...

You are not so mad at what I did, you are mad at what i didnt do.

I didn't put her in any position.. I just didn't stop her from self destruction. She choose to be homeless.

A few facts about this case that i didn't include because it was late and i had typed 2000 words already...

1. she came up positive for heroin, cocaine, meth and pot in a court ordered drug test. 

2. she was with a guy who beat her... that guy is now in jail for murder int he state of Missouri. not exactly the kind of person you want your kids around. Well, maybe you... not me.

3. She wanted the kids to be put in foster care. this was at 10mo. and 20 mo. old. I saved my kids life, lady, and i will never regret that.

4. My current wife tried many times, even without asking me.. to get this woman to see her kids.. she would say yes.. my wife would spend a bunch of money, and she would never claim the tickets, never show up for the flights.. Total human trash. My wife bought her a car without my permission, so that she could see the kids.. guess what ...she came and got the car, and didnt even say hi to the kids.. never came to visit.

5. Justice is when you get what you deserve. Mercy is when you dont get what you deserve. Grace is when you get what you dont deserve. I showed no mercy, I watched Justice unfold. You call it a pummeling.. I call it watching a person reap what they sow. 

Im a nice guy, i really am. I took in my father after his stroke.. after not speakign to him for 10 years i just went and picked him up. and when my wife's mother died, I was the only one to suggest she live with us in total cancer stricken state.. up at all hours with her until she passed. I donate to schools, support local art programs and treat with respect. but that is NOW... Not THEN

she crossed me and threatened the well being of my kids. 

this was 12 years ago.. and honestly i know that i was being a merciless guy then. I knew that i could have offered a hand.. but i decided instead to show her the respect and kindness she showed me.. as she took a literal army of penis' and needles in every hole she had.


1 time is a mistake
2 times is a coincidence
25 times??? and your just an azzholio

I *AM *different these days... Hell i was in my 20's then. But.. If i am being completely honest. She got exactly what she deserved. I was a much better husband to her, than i was to my wife now... that is where the real rage came from.

None the less I do regret the damage tomy soul, but not the way things worked out.


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## Gfxbss (Dec 24, 2010)

I have seen circumstances that the children should have been allowed to see their parents, but I have seen some where they shouldn't be too. 

One of my best friend(whom is 23)'s father is still a junkie and has only been out of prison 1 time to see his grand children(my best friend's older sister's kids.)

As for his particular situation, only 2x and his ex can answer...

BUT if someone does the best to their abilities according to the knowledge that they have.... what more can you ask for?


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> . " that guy is now in jail for murder int he state of Missouri. not exactly the kind of person you want your kids around. Well, maybe you... not me." this was uncalled for you nasty little s**t. There was no reason to add that low bit was there. I asked legit questions with the info I had from your initial post and you answer back with a gutter snip remark. The added info would have illicited a more sympathetic response from me but instead I pity you more than anything else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


:lol::rofl:
Talk about getting nasty, lol "little ****" HAHA
IMO, all cheaters deserve that. Willing to put there family at risk, break it apart, (if unprotected sex, then even health), Regardless of the other facts he gave. The same thing he did, I warned my wife I would do if she cheated on me again. No kid should grow up with a person of no morale fiber, (broken compass). I take responsibility for my own actions, and have never been really influenced by environmental things, but my wife has, a ton. Even her therapist told her that. If my wife can not keep her pants on for any one but me, she has no right to help raise our kids, or any Wayward spouse (IMO) for that matter.


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## Bigwayneo (Jan 22, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> couple things...
> 
> You are not so mad at what I did, you are mad at what i didnt do.
> 
> ...


To be honest you didn't have to explain it. but she asked for it.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Yea, I played WoW too for 6 months, but quit in 2007 when my son was born. Oddly enough, around that time my wife, who was 22 at the time, wrote me a letter stating how she felt about me not helping around the house and a few other things. I dismissed the letter and told her not to threaten me with leaving over the pettiest things. 

Four years later, this past February, she had her affair, got defensive and here's the kicker: She said, "maybe you should have paid more attention to that letter I wrote, but you obviously didn't listen!" 

Makes me wonder if I should have. Constantly playing WoW, systems analyst by trade, always on the computer after she went to bed. Man. One thing I really regret as far as my 50 percent of the failure was not going to sleep with her after she said good night. This was probably close to 40 percent of the time.

Really makes me wonder
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> . " that guy is now in jail for murder int he state of Missouri. not exactly the kind of person you want your kids around. Well, maybe you... not me." this was uncalled for you nasty little s**t. There was no reason to add that low bit was there. I asked legit questions with the info I had from your initial post and you answer back with a gutter snip remark. The added info would have illicited a more sympathetic response from me but instead I pity you more than anything else.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


If you are going to accuse someone of being an Azzholio, then you should probably get all the facts first. 

Since you assumed i was this animal who carelessly stripped his poor children away from thier "taken advantage of" mother... I naturally assumed that you would have supported them being involved in her life of drugs, murderers and homeless folk. Why wouldnt i?

See how that works? 

Now, i dont remember calling you names... But you sure did. That was not very classy, Catherine.

As for your sympathy... You can take that sympathy and a dollar and go buy a small fries at McDonald's. Loyals dont need sympathy, they need answers. How is sympathy going to help them sort out the way they feel or help them figure out the next course of action?

Tell ya what... next Christmas, why dont go up to the salvation army bell ringers and put some sympathy in the bucket.. they can have my share.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I don't like to read harsh words between people. We all post because we have a need to be heard. We each have our own story to tell and unless we have walked in someone else's shoes, we should just listen to the other person. Catherine, I do not think that TTL intentionally try to hurt you. When we read the stories of others on the site, sometimes things that they say can hit a nerve in us. For example, one guy wanted to know if he should cheat on his wife. Well, being a wife that was cheated on, I was really to "fight" with my "keyboard." However, he has a past as do we all.
I wish TTL a future of peace and I thank him for being so honest.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

Wow this thread blew up while I was away, the WoW thing was just an attempt at humor on my part, just tryin to make people smile, Twotime, I do believe your first wife reaped what she sowed, and by reading further, your first wife sounds like she was given plenty of opportunities to see your children, she is the one who made the choice to not to, sure doesn't sound like you put a gun to her head and said NO YOU CAN'T SEE THEM AGAIN. She made a choice plain and simple.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Yea, I played WoW too for 6 months, but quit in 2007 when my son was born. Oddly enough, around that time my wife, who was 22 at the time, wrote me a letter stating how she felt about me not helping around the house and a few other things. I dismissed the letter and told her not to threaten me with leaving over the pettiest things.
> 
> Four years later, this past February, she had her affair, got defensive and here's the kicker: She said, "maybe you should have paid more attention to that letter I wrote, but you obviously didn't listen!"
> 
> ...


That is a fantastic observation!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

2,
I can really relate to the word you speak of in you original post, specificly "capacity", "forgiveness" and "trust".

I have forgiven my W and we have lost that pureness our marraige had when we 1st got married, by both our hands, and I will never have that trust I once had. do to the capacity for her to sleep around.

It is a pleasure to have another person at TAM that has worked things out. I can see how the newbie realy need you around.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

I can only pray my husband can figure his head out, I love him immensely, I can only pray for the strength to give him that time, I am a good woman, not a perfect woman, but a woman that is working on her issues, and I can only pray that I have the strength to give me what I need, what he needs, and what my children need from me, my kids always come first, but twotime, I actually don't think you acted horribly with the demise of you first marriage, I feel you did what needed to be done, it's not like you put a gun to her head, really. I am sure I am gonna get crap for this, but everyone has a choice.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

paramore said:


> LOL!!!!! What's the guilds name?


How about " Oh No they Didn't!!" <ONTD>

lol:rofl:


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> How about " Oh No they Didn't!!" <ONTD>
> 
> lol:rofl:


Lawls.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LonelyNLost (Dec 11, 2010)

Thanks for your story, twotime. I think every one of our story's are different, but with a lot of the same undertones. My H had an EA four years ago, that I have always had some doubt about when he said it didn't turn PA. But now, he is most definitely involved in an EA with his high school sweetheart, even though she lives 2500 miles away. He saw her when he went out there in January, when she filed for her second divorce. I also believe she came here in February when he was off "finding himself". I don't know how to break the EA out into the open, and this is probably a PA considering their shared past being each other's first loves. He has shut everyone out in his life, including his best friends. Won't talk about our marriage to them at all. Won't even sit down with me face to face and tell me we have to talk and that he wants a divorce. He hides behind texts and emails saying we need to discuss our "situation" and that mediation is the cheapest way to go and will I do that? And do I have a lawyer? And have I researched this stuff? So spineless. Aliens abducted my husband.


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

and the guild tabard would look like what, oh glorious gm, HAH!


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## Babyheart (Feb 9, 2011)

twotimeloser said:


> FOr those of you that think WoW doesnt effect a person negatively, I present to you Exhibit #1.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> YouTube - Greatest freak out ever (ORIGINAL VIDEO)


:rofl:


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## paramore (Jan 11, 2011)

oh yes, for myself personally Babyheart, I allowed WoW for a long time to become my life, I don't play hardly at all I logged on a few minutes ago because husband asked me if I wanted to do a cata dungeon with guildies, so I did, but they were all full, so I logged off, I am posting on here now, but it's much more therapeutic coming here than wow lol.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Yea, I played WoW too for 6 months, but quit in 2007 when my son was born. Oddly enough, around that time my wife, who was 22 at the time, wrote me a letter stating how she felt about me not helping around the house and a few other things. I dismissed the letter and told her not to threaten me with leaving over the pettiest things.
> 
> Four years later, this past February, she had her affair, got defensive and here's the kicker: She said, "maybe you should have paid more attention to that letter I wrote, but you obviously didn't listen!"
> 
> ...


My DS said he always felt lonely when I didn't go to bed with him. I stayed on the computer for hours after he went to bed. Even after sex, I rarely stayed in bed. He's a touch person. Still, not an excuse for his cheating, but we're getting counseling. Now we go to be together almost every night. If I want to be on the computer, I bring it with me to bed or leave after he's asleep. He said he never realized how important it was to him to have me there when he falls asleep.


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

twotimeloser said:


> Look at them as a person, not a spouse, and ask yourself "would i have this person for a friend?" IF not... then you have an easy choice.
> 
> When couples have a shot... when they both want to try... I always encourage it. I know how good it can be, even without 100% trust. I firmly believe that most people do not know how to be married. That most people do not know the purpose for marriage. When they start working on it, real progress is made.


Loved these comments TTL, the friend one almost made me cry. I would love to have my spouse as a friend, even though he cheated. I'm glad we both would prefer to remain a couple.

Happy to hear it can be good, even with the dent in my favorite car.  (I liked that analogy, very true) It's only been 3 months, so I know we have a long way to go. Most importantly, we both want a future together. Hope I'm strong enough to not let that dent get to me. I'm kind of a perfectionist, but I know people are not perfect.


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## The 13th_Floor (Mar 7, 2011)

Saffron, unfortunately, it's those little things that we recognize after the fact that we should have done differently, but don't realize until it's too damn late. The worst part, after the LS finally "gets" it, the DS wants nothing to do with us. It hurts. It's like, I want to tell my wife to just get her ****ing head out of the fog and let me try again, but once they're gone, they're gone. 

I wish DS's out there could just somehow realize that what we helped break can be fixed if they just gave us a fighting chance....


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## Saffron (Mar 7, 2010)

The 13th_Floor said:


> Saffron, unfortunately, it's those little things that we recognize after the fact that we should have done differently, but don't realize until it's too damn late. The worst part, after the LS finally "gets" it, the DS wants nothing to do with us. It hurts. It's like, I want to tell my wife to just get her ****ing head out of the fog and let me try again, but once they're gone, they're gone.
> 
> I wish DS's out there could just somehow realize that what we helped break can be fixed if they just gave us a fighting chance....


I'm so sorry your DS is still in the fog. It hurts enough even when the DS wants to stay, I'd probably still be in my bathrobe if he had wanted her over me.

It did take me a little while to wrap my head around the elements that contriubted to his cheating. I was so angry and hurt at first. But to make it work long term, all marital issues prior to the affair have to be addressesd. I hope you get your chance someday to try again, if you still want it.

TTL, agree with your belief people need to work at being married. Can't expect both people to be satisfied without effort and communication.


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## twotimeloser (Feb 13, 2011)

The easiest way to really look at what a marriage is, would be to look at an old married couple of 50+ years. By then, if you havent embraced the "We" of marriage, you have effectively wasted a life. Yours.


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