# Extremely frustrated with marriage + sex life



## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

First off, My name is Mike

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I don't want to share my life story with everyone because that would just be plain boring. So I'll try to keep it brief and to the point. I've been married for 3 years now and our sex life is miserable. She works the typical 9-5 and I work the odd wee hours of the day. Anyways if I get lucky, we'll have sex maybe 1-2 times a month. Three times is pushing it. I'm Approaching my 30's and in my prime right now! I've been born in my prime. I crave sex everyday and it's hard to take the backseat. 

We have two beautiful girls which I'm thankful for, however for example I just dropped her off to have a night out with friends and she utilizes me as the babysitter, of course she knows I work the next day and have to watch over them. ( I'm not complaining about that part because it's my job as a parent). However the sex is nowhere to what it used to be before I married her! She always gives me an excuse, saying I need you more emotionally and yada yada yada. I get it. Anyways, I can't help I'm always horny. I've never cheated on her ever (yes I've thought about it on many occasions, but knew I couldn't since I have kids with her & it would be extremely selfish of me). Sorry to rant and bore you guys, but for goodness sake any ideas on how to improve this situation? Besides the obvious with a counselor etc...


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Who watches the children while she’s at work during the day?
How many nights a week do you work? How long are your shifts?


utilitygy415 said:


> She works the typical 9-5 and I work the odd wee hours of the day.


Working opposite shifts is a marriage killer because it leaves little to no time for the two of you to spend together. If there is any way for you two to work the same shift, it has to happen. If you two continue working different shifts, then you two need to make the time when you two are home together be very intense together time.



utilitygy415 said:


> Anyways if I get lucky, we'll have sex maybe 1-2 times a month. Three times is pushing it. I'm Approaching my 30's and in my prime right now! I've been born in my prime. I crave sex everyday and it's hard to take the backseat.





utilitygy415 said:


> She always gives me an excuse, saying I need you more emotionally and yada yada yada. I get it.


I don’t think you get it. She’s apparently told you why she’s not up to having much sex. She’s told you that she needs you emotionally. Her need for non-sexual intimacy is equally as important as your need to sexual-intimacy.

How many hours a week do you and your wife spend doing things together, just the two of you? I mean things that you two enjoy, date-like things?

There are two books that I think would really help you. My suggestion is that you read them first. They will help you figure out how to talk to your wife about all this and how to restructure your life & marriage to rebuild your marriage. After you have read them, then talk to her and has her to read the books with you and to work on what the books say to do.

“Love Busters” and “His Needs, Her Needs”


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Thank you for the referrals, I will check them out. Ele, see thats the thing (again a big no no) is that we don't spend enough time together period. Its work and than the kids. She says she never has the place to herself. Which is a lie, I always take the kids out to the park or what not, but I guess she means that she never has alone time without having to do something, like the ordinary chores and deep cleaning. We go on dates maybe once a month and we always have to pay for a babysitter since my family here in the states are uncooperative and her family is 6,000 miles away. I do understand her emotional needs, I don't think she understands mine in general. That's why their is so much frustration in the relationship, we don't see eye to eye about 90% of the time. She would rather socialize with others than me! Mainly, because she is a broken record and repeats things over and over to the point of insanity. Yes women do this to men and wonder why we're crazy. I know it can go just the same the other way.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

utilitygy415 said:


> Thank you for the referrals, I will check them out. Ele, see thats the thing (again a big no no) is that we don't spend enough time together period. Its work and than the kids.


Could please answer the question of who takes care of the children when she is at work?

It’s pretty common in today’s world for a couple to lose their relationship because they emphasize the wrong things: Work and children. Children do not come before the marital relationship. To have a good, strong family life for the children, a strong marriage is the number one priority. Unfortunately in this day of over emphasis on children, marriages are often ignored.. them people are shocked when one spouse wants a divorce.



utilitygy415 said:


> She says she never has the place to herself. Which is a lie, I always take the kids out to the park or what not, but I guess she means that she never has alone time without having to do something, like the ordinary chores and deep cleaning.


How often is ‘always’?

How much of the ‘ordinary chores and deep cleaning’ do you do?

If you think that she is misstating (do not call your wife a liar, that’s grossly disrespectful) her feelings/needs then talk with her about it. “You know honey, sometimes you say that you never get the place to yourself. But you do because I take the kids to the park, etc. to give you tie Malone. I’m wondering if what you really mean is that you do not get time without the kids and without responsibilities hanging over you like having to do housework. If that’s how you feel, let’s explore ways to give you the time you need.”



utilitygy415 said:


> We go on dates maybe once a month and we always have to pay for a babysitter since my family here in the states are uncooperative and her family is 6,000 miles away.


Once a month is not enough, not by a long shot. A couple needs to spend about 15 hours a week together by themselves, doing things that they both enjoy. That’s usually 2 hours a night on weeknights and then 5 hours over the weekend. Anything less than that and you get exactly what you have. 

Paying a babysitter is cheaper then a divorce. So it's worth the babysitter to maintain your relationship.

YOu can also look for couples in a similar situation and trade off child care. It works pretty well.

There is a lack of connection and a level of antagonism that exists between a couple when they do not get the bonding time that is needed to maintain their connection. Look up the hormone “oxytocin” and read about its role in keeping a couple connected and the sex life going. A woman whose oxytocin levels have fallen too low generally behaves in the way your wife is. They do not want to be touched much or have much physical intimacy.

The two books I suggested call it a ‘love bank’. Scientifically it’s he oxytocin levels. 



utilitygy415 said:


> I do understand her emotional needs,


What are her emotional needs? Which ones are you meeting and which are you not meeting?

Have the two of you ever talked about your emotional needs, identified them, and talked about how you need to have them met?



utilitygy415 said:


> I don't think she understands mine in general. That's why their is so much frustration in the relationship, we don't see eye to eye about 90% of the time.


That’s why communication is important. Maybe in addition to the books, the two of you would benefit from counseling to learn how to communicate.



utilitygy415 said:


> She would rather socialize with others than me! Mainly, because she is a broken record and repeats things over and over to the point of insanity. Yes women do this to men and wonder why we're crazy. I know it can go just the same the other way.


She would like to socialize with others instead of you because she’s a broken record? Is that what you mean?

What is it that she goes on and on about? 



utilitygy415 said:


> Mainly, because she is a broken record and repeats things over and over to the point of insanity. Yes women do this to men and wonder why we're crazy. I know it can go just the same the other way.


Have no doubt that a good number of men do this as well. Women do not have a monopoly on this kind of behavior. If we spoke her to, she would probably say that there are things that you go on and on about.


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## Fitgirl (Jul 30, 2015)

Hmm maybe she wants and needs a little romance. You know romance is not about sex, it is about love and caring, knowing the other's desires. Or Try masturbating infront of her? But u have ask her permission first. (Watching your partner masturbate or Masturbating in front of your partner is such a great turn on!) I can definitely feel your pain. It's really frustrating when you want intimacy and your partner does not respond to it. My husband prefers playing with his stupid chess online games than being intimate with me. I have learned to please myself without him. I know that sounds pathetic but I'd rather resort to that than getting someone in replacement.


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## jsmart (Mar 14, 2015)

You need to work on getting a different job with regular hours. It'll be good for your health and marriage. 

As for meeting her emotional needs, it's a 2-way street. but you need to be sure that you put in the effort for a date once a week. Doesn't have to be costly but you do have to put in the effort.

On these GNO, what is she doing and with whom is she going? You need to be sure, her hanging with a younger or single crowd is bad for your marriage. If she's going to a bar or club that is a serious red flag.


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

Ele and others are giving you good advice, you must go down that road. To that I would add that you also must periodically make it crystal clear to her that your sex life SUCKS. Many women in your situation are oblivious and think he's not complaining too much and well, we have sex at least once a month, we're good. No, you're not good.


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

utilitygy415 said:


> ...for goodness sake any ideas on how to improve this situation? Besides the obvious with a counselor etc...



You need to make your wife feel like she is your friend 1st and lover 2nd and avoid complaining about sex and instead always be playful/fun about it. 

If your ego gets hurt by sexual rejection, keep in mind she may be sh!t testing you to see how emotionally strong you are. Women are attracted to confidence and men who can't be hurt because they themselves want to be protected. So the next time she turns you down for sex, stay playful and absurdly confident and tell her something like, "look, I know that being married to such an extraordinary talented lover as myself might make you a little afraid of what wild and crazy thing I am going to do to you, but I promise to keep it gentle tonight! First let me go unhook these new hydraulic tilt lifts under the bed I installed, OK?" 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


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## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

anonmd said:


> Ele and others are giving you good advice, you must go down that road. To that I would add that you also must periodically *make it crystal clear to her that your sex life SUCKS*. Many women in your situation are oblivious and *think he's not complaining too much* and well, we have sex at least once a month, we're good. No, you're not good.


I'll agree with this, but add you have to be creative and playful about conveying this to her as opposed to just whining and complaining. An example might be installing a remote LED color changing light in the house and let your wife know when it is a certain color or blinking that you want her. Put it over her side of the bed. Leave it on the designated color and blinking all the time, then when you wife reacts that it can not be, awkwardly takes sides with her that the light is broken and will not stop and that it is horrible, then mention it might start working correctly again if she gets naked!

I call that "being creative with your temper tantrums, the true secrets to spicing up your sex life!"

Cheers,
Badsanta


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Mike, you have been married for 3 yrs with 2 girls. How old are the girls.?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think she needs to really believe this is a deal breaker.

You can tell her you'll do this and that and she will take all of it and come up with another excuse.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't legitimately try to address any concerns she has, but it should be clear that it is a two way street.

If she doesn't accept that basic concept, you will spin your wheels.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

What are your wife's emotional needs, and how are you meeting them?


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

What part of the world is your wife from?


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

brooklynann they are 4 and 2 yrs old, sorry I'm late to respond on this! You guys have given me amazing advice btw and low and behold the other day, I had the most amazing sexy in months. It lasted a long time (I'm the type of guy who appreciates love making and all the kissing that goes with it.. but she doesn't like to kiss!!!, really kicks me in the arse with that. Again it was a night of amazing pleasure that I was craving a long time, however I'm a freak in the sheets and like someone said earlier "get creative" and turn a woman on with my confidence, meanwhile trying not to get bummed if I get rejected. Also another person mentioned if she goes to the bars, the answer to that is yes she does. Typically younger crowd and she mainly goes with our good mutual guy friends. She's had quite a few mishaps where I got on her case big time about being sloppy drunk. Trust me I know my limit and when I drink, very very seldom. I let people know I'm with, "Hey I'm a little buzzed, so don't mind my stupidity & nonsense". Look I'm no saint either, like I said I had so many thoughts of wanting to cheat, but knew it was the selfish thing to do because I have kids with her! I'd immediately feel the guilt. So I've been loyal to her. I'm a bit stubborn in my ways and always trying to find ways to better myself. Sex isn't always the answer though, love is. I feel like I emphasize sex so much that it drives me to insanity. Where I want it everyday, my sex drive is literally through the roof and hers is barely alive. I will read those books recommended and fix all my mistakes. 

thank you again everyone for being so helpful & badsanta you crack me up man ( now that was creative!)
Mike (that random guy)


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

To achieve phenomenal sex, you must have true nurturing love that is caring and comes directly from the heart. I'm finally beginning to realize this more and more now...


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

John she's British


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Hicks, 

My wifes emotional needs are for me just to be kind to her. I grew up in a completely dysfunctional family and to this day we are so far apart in many ways. Our families do not get along, my Dad and half Brother disowned her basically and now I haven't spoken to my Dad in months because of all this mishap. My half Bro is the bad influence, I respect what he does for a living.... but he's really changed from the kid I grew up knowing and we no longer are really on same page. I also have 3 other siblings 2 from my Dads previous marriage ( he's divorced 3 times that I know of). He controlled me to the point to where he talked me out to get married in England ( My wifes homeland and she wanted us to have it there). Sorry guys, I'm getting way too personal with this. Bottom line is I have no true connections except with my Sister and Mum on my side. Back to the question hicks, I'm not meeting her emotional needs. Thats where I'm going all wrong.


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## AlphaMale74 (Oct 15, 2014)

Sex is the one main thing that separates a marriage from any other relationship.
You and she need to read "The Sex-Starved Marriage" by Michelle Weiner-Davis.
So, she won't have sex with you very often, but expects you to be faithful to her? How hypocritical. If she wants to be the only game in town, then she needs to be game my friend.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Sex starts for a woman away before getting to the bedroom (or relevant location!). Touch her, hug her from behind, help her with the chores and brush your leg against her, say something sweet, in other words 'warm' her up first. Women usually are juggling many things at once which can be exhausting and then her H looks for 'sex' without doing anything to meet her needs first, it is all about him. Tenderness and romance for a woman is very important not mechanical sex. 
Learn to seduce her and arouse her, take the initiative to learn this art, because it is an art which will serve you well. Remember your mind and hers is the most important sexual resource and the best sex starts at breakfast!

You have to listen to her feelings without interrupting, criticising or offering advice, talk about feelings, resolve conflict, express appreciation. When you disagree discuss the issue rather than attack and put time together in your marriage as a priority not as a last thing. Be open about how you feel too and how you need her.

Too often tiredness, chores, complacency and familiarity are the problem, spice things up a bit. Remember for a woman especially it is about the journey not the destination!


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## Dragunov (May 21, 2015)

aine said:


> Sex starts for a woman away before getting to the bedroom (or relevant location!). Touch her, hug her from behind, help her with the chores and brush your leg against her, say something sweet, in other words 'warm' her up first. Women usually are juggling many things at once which can be exhausting and then her H looks for 'sex' without doing anything to meet her needs first, it is all about him. Tenderness and romance for a woman is very important not mechanical sex.
> Learn to seduce her and arouse her, take the initiative to learn this art, because it is an art which will serve you well. Remember your mind and hers is the most important sexual resource and the best sex starts at breakfast!
> 
> You have to listen to her feelings without interrupting, criticising or offering advice, talk about feelings, resolve conflict, express appreciation. When you disagree discuss the issue rather than attack and put time together in your marriage as a priority not as a last thing. Be open about how you feel too and how you need her.
> ...


Why is it the man's job to do all the work leading up to sex? Are women the only ones who have lots of different things to worry about and stress out over? Men deal all the same thing money, job, children, home and family issues that women do. 

Requiring that men do everything to eliminate all the stress from women's lives and undertake all the work to keep the relationship together and romance the women effectively makes men into slaves for sex. Sex has become the token reward dolled out by women in stingy morsels like a throwing a bone to a starving dog. 

That's not equality. It's slavery.


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## afab (Jul 28, 2015)

You dont seem to know what your wife really wants or you havent told us. I am sorry but you will have to go to a counsellor to find this out before you will get any further. All the good advice on here is only after you know what she really wants. Make sure you dont have to go often or you will end up paying a fortune. Tell the counsellor in advance that is what you want.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

utilitygy415 said:


> Look I'm no saint either, like I said I had so many thoughts of wanting to cheat, but knew it was the selfish thing to do because I have kids with her! I'd immediately feel the guilt. So I've been loyal to her.


Cheating is the selfish thing to do whether or not you have kids. Are you saying if you didn't have kids, you would not have a problem with cheating??

You've identified the problem here, that you're not meeting your wife's emotional needs. I think the two of you can work this out by working on that issue specifically. Counseling could help.


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## Hoosier (May 17, 2011)

She goes to bars with male friends without you? Oh man, that's a great idea, said no one ever. FYI. My x and I had a male friend (he was mine first, met her thru me) for over 20 years. The three of us did many things together, as he was widowed (14 years older than us) and seemed lonely. Then one July day, 4 years ago, I found out why he didn't seem interested in finding a woman....yep, he had mine! She moved out of our house and in with him, we divorced in 82 days, they were married six months later, ending our 30 year marriage. NEVER let your wife go out on the town with men friends without you.

How sexy are you to your wife when she sees you as a babysitter so she can go out and have fun. She does this without you.... Big Red Flag.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Dragunov said:


> Why is it the man's job to do all the work leading up to sex? Are women the only ones who have lots of different things to worry about and stress out over? Men deal all the same thing money, job, children, home and family issues that women do.
> 
> Requiring that men do everything to eliminate all the stress from women's lives and undertake all the work to keep the relationship together and romance the women effectively makes men into slaves for sex. Sex has become the token reward dolled out by women in stingy morsels like a throwing a bone to a starving dog.
> 
> That's not equality. It's slavery.


The reality is that it is usually women who have the finger on the emotional pulse of the marriage 90% of the time. If romancing your wife is too much hard work, maybe you should not be married, just get a prostitute, no 'work' required. 

That is part of the problem, there are men who go to work, come home, expect everything to be done for them and get sex, end of story, how fulfilling is that for a wife? 
Marriage is hard work and not a one way street, wives do a lot for their husbands and family generally which goes unnoticed, many wives are also holding down full time jobs but carry a larger share of the household duties, cleaning, cooking, childcare, bill paying, etc. Appreciation works both ways. You want to be appreciated for what you do, so does your wife, she just expects it in different ways, you want sex, she wants romance and tenderness not a functional shag. Therein lies the problem.


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Dragunov said:


> Why is it the man's job to do all the work leading up to sex? Are women the only ones who have lots of different things to worry about and stress out over? Men deal all the same thing money, job, children, home and family issues that women do.
> 
> Requiring that men do everything to eliminate all the stress from women's lives and undertake all the work to keep the relationship together and romance the women effectively makes men into slaves for sex. Sex has become the token reward dolled out by women in stingy morsels like a throwing a bone to a starving dog.
> 
> That's not equality. It's slavery.


For me it's a catch 22 sort of thing. If I'm getting enough sex than I'm good with all the other stuff my wife "needs" in order to have sex. However, if I ain't gettin any, I naturally withdraw all those romantic gestures which does not help the situation and causes deadlock. 

To "fix" this I simply told my wife the truth. I told her that if I don't get sex (and not any kind of sex, real, involved GREAT sex) twice a week I will slowly gravitate away from her. On her end she can sense me withdrawing and then pulls me back in with some really mind blowing sex.

It's the ying and yang of marriage, I guess.

You have to get to a point where you are BOTH giving what each other wants so one of you does not fall off the deep end.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

"It’s pretty common in today’s world for a couple to lose their relationship because they emphasize the wrong things: Work and children. Children do not come before the marital relationship. To have a good, strong family life for the children, a strong marriage is the number one priority. Unfortunately in this day of over emphasis on children, marriages are often ignored.. them people are shocked when one spouse wants a divorce." Ele Girl

Man, do I wish a lot of couples out there would get this.


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## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

Marriage is not for children. children are the blessed, miraculous by-product of marriage.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

@Dragunov, I think you have a point with regard to the burden of keeping the sex life burning being slavishly attended to by men. I guess it really comes down to where your priorities are and what kind of effort you think is acceptable to keep those priorities in order. For instance if your priority in life is to have positive caring relationships with significant people, it would be expected that you place significant effort into maintaining those relationships. 

A good sex life doesn't usually happen without a good bit of effort.

Most women have "Responsive Desire" which means they must FIRST become sexually aroused and THEN they experience sexual desire. Whereas most men have "Sponatanious Desire" which means their desire for sex happens ...sponataniously without any particular conditions needed to be present. 

Take chocolate for instance. Some people, like me, will go out of their way to get it, have it, eat it, bake it, make it, drink it, share it.... It is that important in our lives. But other people like my husband, will have some if offered and easily available but he has no burning desire to get some. For me, the idea of chocolate itself creates the energy to get it. For my husband, the energy to have it must be created elsewhere and then he will want some. Does this make sense?

If at midnight I go searching for chocolate and we are out of it, I will put on my shoes, grab my keys and go get some without blinking an eye. My husband thinks I'm nuts.

Now, here is where a good relationship creates a symbiosis of divergent needs.

Over the years my husband has learned that his crazy wife will do crazy things for chocolate. He knows how important chocolate is to me, because I have clearly and consistently demonstrated this. Not once have I given a mixed message about chocolate. And so, my wise and clever husband frequently gifts me with chocolate and I didn't have to lift a finger to get it!

Now sex is not a gift, not really. But when one spouse has a burning spontaneous desire for sex while the other spouse only has a responsive desire, expecting the the Sponatanious spouse to tamp down their desire is out of the question. Conversely, expecting the Responsive spouse to manufacture a Sponatanious desire is equally out of the question. A good relationship between spouses in which their respective approaches to desire are accepted and understood will naturally lend itself to the responsive desire spouse "gifting" the spontaneous desire spouse with sex, sponataniously, without having to lift a finger to have it.

Of course all of this is way over simplified because a person's sexuality is fluid and subject to change in response to a multitude of factors not even dependent on the state of the relationship itself. Hormones, general health, relative stress, FOO, past traumatic events, and even societal messaging regarding sexuality itself. All of these play a role in how our sexuality expresses itself.

I think when you think of sex like chocolate, it makes it easier to understand that it's not a personal rejection but an innate preference, all things being equal.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

Dragunov said:


> Why is it the man's job to do all the work leading up to sex? Are women the only ones who have lots of different things to worry about and stress out over? Men deal all the same thing money, job, children, home and family issues that women do.
> 
> Requiring that men do everything to eliminate all the stress from women's lives and undertake all the work to keep the relationship together and romance the women effectively makes men into slaves for sex. Sex has become the token reward dolled out by women in stingy morsels like a throwing a bone to a starving dog.
> 
> That's not equality. It's slavery.


Baloney!!! Dragunov, you've got a very unusual situation in your life which has given you a jaded view of marriage.

I relish the opportunity to "romance" my wife in an emotional way. That's what we signed up for (generally speaking) as the alpha-male role player in the family. Most women want to be taken care of and want us to take the lead in doing those things to make them feel safe, secure and loved.

When you finally get that, it takes all the "work" out of the relationship. You'll get rewarded many times over from your wife because she will be head-over-heels in love with you and will reciprocate that "work" for you.

As a personal immediate reference, my father-in-law just passed away on Friday. Funeral was Sunday afternoon and family was all together until yesterday afternoon (Monday). I was there emotionally for my wife and bent over backwards for whatever she wanted. What did I get in response for my attention to her emotional needs? Incredible love, hugs, love pats, intensive eye contact, deep long kisses, and great sex as soon as we returned home.

Nowhere have I ever read that marriage was a 50/50 joint venture. If' that's what you think it should be, then you are in for a long and miserable life.


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## autopilot (Mar 16, 2012)

Utilitygy415,

You've been given great advice here. And, it sounds like you are on the right track to making things right. Remember, though, that it's not always easy to do whenever you are tired and frustrated from outside influences.

Don't let problematic outside influences affect your relationship with your wife. Let her help hash out those problems with you. She will be glad that you included her and confided in her to gain that inner access to you. Just don't begin to get angry with her over those outside negative influences.

One person posted that it's not wise that you let her go out with mutual guy friends. That is absolutely correct. They will only be mutual until one of them starts hitting on your wife and damages your marriage. It is only a matter of time before it happens. We are guys, remember?


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## UMP (Dec 23, 2014)

Anon Pink said:


> @Dragunov, I think you have a point with regard to the burden of keeping the sex life burning being slavishly attended to by men. I guess it really comes down to where your priorities are and what kind of effort you think is acceptable to keep those priorities in order. For instance if your priority in life is to have positive caring relationships with significant people, it would be expected that you place significant effort into maintaining those relationships.
> 
> A good sex life doesn't usually happen without a good bit of effort.
> 
> ...


AND, like sex, if you take that chocolate and figure out how to create foods in a way that titillate your responsive chocolate desire husband, he is even more likely to buy more of it and share it with you. Win - Win.


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

I've got good news and bad news. The good news is you don't ever have to worry about fixing this problem again. I'm gonna tell you how. 

The bad news is it can't be fixed so quit worrying about it. Try to be as happy as you can be doing things for yourself. Sacrifice as much for her as she does for you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Hoosier said:


> *She goes to bars with male friends without you?* Oh man, that's a great idea, said no one ever. FYI. My x and I had a male friend (he was mine first, met her thru me) for over 20 years. The three of us did many things together, as he was widowed (14 years older than us) and seemed lonely. Then one July day, 4 years ago, I found out why he didn't seem interested in finding a woman....yep, he had mine! She moved out of our house and in with him, we divorced in 82 days, they were married six months later, ending our 30 year marriage. NEVER let your wife go out on the town with men friends without you.
> 
> How sexy are you to your wife when she sees you as a babysitter so she can go out and have fun. She does this without you.... Big Red Flag.


Glad someone else commented on this. So...she's going to bars how many times a week or month? On top of that she's going out with mutual "guy friends" (yours first or hers first?) AND she's running with a generally younger crowd who I'm sure is largely single, right? 

Maybe it's a romance and lack of quality time issue. Actually, I'm sure it is. However...you are being replaced by a singles lifestyle. If she has not slipped up yet, it's only a matter of time.


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Glad someone else commented on this. So...she's going to bars how many times a week or month? On top of that she's going out with mutual "guy friends" (yours first or hers first?) AND she's running with a generally younger crowd who I'm sure is largely single, right?
> 
> Maybe it's a romance and lack of quality time issue. Actually, I'm sure it is. However...you are being replaced by a singles lifestyle. If she has not slipped up yet, it's only a matter of time.


That was the reason for my comment. First thing I noticed was she had no time to be intimate but she has time for the bar, while he babysits no less. I bet she is high fiving herself on that one.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Autopilot,

These mutual friends are all in relationships or have known her for years and I've met all of them and hung out with them as well. Great group of guys and I trust them and instilled boundaries of anything happening. Not only that I have a family gps tracker on her through my phone for the time being, just to make sure she isn't lying to me. I really hate to get paranoid about all the things that could've already happened and if she is truly being honest with me? She said "I'd leave you before I would consider ever cheating" and me openly admitting I've wanted to cheat is definitely just a sign of frustration with the marriage that we're working on currently. Trust me I have so many more stressors to list, they go on and on. Main one's are the obvious : work, kids, bills, debt, transitioning to move and did I already mention debt? Talking about our finances stresses the crap out of me, but like you have all said I have to keep it together and read those recommended books. As well as absorbing all this great advice. 

Thank you all,
Mike


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

I need to hear it from husbands & wives who are in the same position as me and found resolutions without arguments erupting. When she hits her "period" she is Godzilla I swear. She tends to be very loud in general, I'm more of the quite type. However when I do get loud, I shake the whole place down and my voice is heard on a whole different decibel.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

utilitygy415 said:


> Autopilot,
> 
> *These mutual friends are all in relationships or have known her for years and I've met all of them and hung out with them as well. Great group of guys and I trust them and instilled boundaries of anything happening.* Not only that I have a family gps tracker on her through my phone for the time being, just to make sure she isn't lying to me. I really hate to get paranoid about all the things that could've already happened and if she is truly being honest with me? *She said "I'd leave you before I would consider ever cheating" *and me openly admitting I've wanted to cheat is definitely just a sign of frustration with the marriage that we're working on currently. Trust me I have so many more stressors to list, they go on and on. Main one's are the obvious : work, kids, bills, debt, transitioning to move and did I already mention debt? Talking about our finances stresses the crap out of me, but like you have all said I have to keep it together and read those recommended books. As well as absorbing all this great advice.
> 
> ...


None of what I put in bold is iron clad. Guy friends who have GFs may STILL want to get in your wife's pants. Your wife stating that she'd leave you before cheating? Sounds great except...does NOTHING to GUARANTEE that she won't or isn't cheating now. 

The mere fact that she is going out to bars with singles guys who may or may not have GFs is crossing boundaries - at least this activity would be crossing my boundary. 

If you were the one going out with single girls who may or may not have BFs, I'm sure you wife would be completely OK with this, right? LOL


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Plan 9,

I get everything you're saying it's just that I have let her get away with this crap for so long. If she doesn't go out, things are even worse. Women need their time I get it, but I hate feeling NEGLECTED. You have the mojo working for you and then it goes down the drain because the wife is too tired or been out with friends until 3 am in the morning every weekend pretty much. It gets old, it really does. So many women in this position I guarantee would love to have their husband be as affectionate as I can be, but getting rejected so much harms my confidence.

I try to get by ( when all else fails I have masturbation) but even thats hard with so much estrogen in the house....

-Mike


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

utilitygy415 said:


> First off, My name is Mike
> 
> I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I don't want to share my life story with everyone because that would just be plain boring. So I'll try to keep it brief and to the point. I've been married for 3 years now and our sex life is miserable. She works the typical 9-5 and I work the odd wee hours of the day. Anyways if I get lucky, we'll have sex maybe 1-2 times a month. Three times is pushing it. I'm Approaching my 30's and in my prime right now! I've been born in my prime. I crave sex everyday and it's hard to take the backseat.
> 
> We have two beautiful girls which I'm thankful for, however for example I just dropped her off to have a night out with friends and she utilizes me as the babysitter, of course she knows I work the next day and have to watch over them. ( I'm not complaining about that part because it's my job as a parent). However the sex is nowhere to what it used to be before I married her! She always gives me an excuse, saying I need you more emotionally and yada yada yada. I get it. Anyways, I can't help I'm always horny. I've never cheated on her ever (yes I've thought about it on many occasions, but knew I couldn't since I have kids with her & it would be extremely selfish of me). Sorry to rant and bore you guys, but for goodness sake any ideas on how to improve this situation? Besides the obvious with a counselor etc...


I found a similiar post earlier and I responded with advice. I am going to share my same response. What is missing seems to be seduction. Seduction was and will always remain the female form of power and warfare. For thousands of years, it was the cure to rape and violence. It's apparent that a form of boredom has crept in taking over your wife's power of seduction over you. Your ability to alleviate this boredom by making life adventerous and exciting will make your company highly prized again. 

The greatest danger to marriage is the mere hint of routine or familiarity. You need to maintain some mystery and invoke high emotional tension and charm which will result in excitement and imagination. You'll need the ability to get outside yourself. To take your marriage where it's never been, you'll have to do things you've never done. All of us are weighed down by all kinds of responsibilities and a wall forms around us. You must lure your wife away from the daily responsibility and affairs that fill her mind. Offer her something unfamiliar that will fascinate her and hold her attention. To do this, start with being different with your manner and her appearance. People yearn to explore thier darker, more seductive sides. Love is not always suppose to be tender and soft.

Each gender has its own seductive lures and to a woman, it is her appearance. Men are predominantly visually stimulated. Venture out, and obtain the most seductive dress or wardrobe for your wife as possible with plans to make a public appearance. Physical appearances are critical, they force upon a man an agitation of his senses. Providing a sexy dress/wardrobe will transform your wife inside and out. You will give her the license to play a role that has been pre-determined. Use flattery, there is no greater physical lure than to make your wife feel alluring. Make your wife feel that a great deal of time and money was spent, better yet... even wasted, on her exclusively. 

To be effective, the body and it's clothes must dazzle. It is the body and clothes that create the Goddess effect of being beyond everyone's reach. Disclosure must be selective, revealing only part of the body, but a part that will excite and stir your imagination. Make her feel that once she walks out of your home's front door on date night, that she is leaving one world behind and entering a new one.

Leave all of your inhibitions behind and care nothing of what anyone else thinks or opinionates. Leave them all behind. Feminine boldness has it's allure because it is more rare than any other kind. Remember, no one is born timid. Timidity is a protection we develop.

The frequency of sex means nothing without boldness and seduction. Dress her up, and take her out. YOU pick out her dress and YOU pick out her heels. Allow her to play her part. Your desire for her will increase tenfold and there is nothing more exciting to a woman than to be absolutely desired. Let us know how it went...


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

utilitygy415 said:


> Plan 9,
> 
> I get everything you're saying it's just that I have let her get away with this crap for so long. If she doesn't go out, things are even worse. Women need their time I get it, but I hate feeling NEGLECTED. You have the mojo working for you and then it goes down the drain because the *wife is too tired or been out with friends until 3 am in the morning every weekend pretty much. *It gets old, it really does. So many women in this position I guarantee would love to have their husband be as affectionate as I can be, but getting rejected so much harms my confidence.
> 
> ...


That needs to end, period. When my wife does her GNO's, they happen only a few times a month, she's rarely out past 10 and 11 pm is the absolute latest she stays out, and they are at venues that are marriage friendly (dinners or playing games at another woman's house for example). Pick one, but either Friday night or Saturday night should be held sacred and by the night to go out on a date. I strongly recommend weekly date nights. 

Honestly, she's taking gross advantage of you. You're little more than a baby sitter. Sex is NOT your biggest issue here. In most cases, a lack of sex is an effect that is due to one or more causes.


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## tornado (Jan 10, 2014)

utilitygy415 said:


> Plan 9,
> 
> I get everything you're saying it's just that I have let her get away with this crap for so long. If she doesn't go out, things are even worse. Women need their time I get it, but I hate feeling NEGLECTED. You have the mojo working for you and then it goes down the drain because the wife is too tired or been out with friends until 3 am in the morning every weekend pretty much. It gets old, it really does. So many women in this position I guarantee would love to have their husband be as affectionate as I can be, but getting rejected so much harms my confidence.
> 
> ...




Seriously!! Read what you wrote over and over again to yourself. They way she is treating you is unacceptable. She gets mad because you are trying to interrupt her perfect little setup. Marriage is a two way street, sounds like she just wants her own expres lane to me, and your just a free babysitter. I think you need to evaluate this carefully.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Wake the Fvck up! Hello McFly!

How many times does spouses cheat with bil or sil or their spouses? Just because they have relationships means jack ****.

A married person has NO BUSINESS ON GNO OR BNO. Dinner with the girls or bowling with the guys OK. No freaking bars or clubs.

You do not get enough time together as it is and she is getting cozy with some dude on the dance floor. Most likely one of your "friends". Bars usually close at 2am here. Did they all see her there till 2 or did she leave early. Where was she from 2-3am.

I fear you do not know 25% of the **** she has done on these GNO.

IN MY HOUSE HELL NO! My wife wants to go to the bar without me she can do it single!

The fact someone would EVEN WANT TO GO OUT (OR VACATION ) WITHOUT THEIR SPOUSES IS A MAJOR RED FLAG FOR AN UNHEALTHY RELATIONSHIP.

GET A SITTER AND START MATE GUARDING OR SHE WILL FIND ANOTHER MAN.....IF SHE HAS NOT ALREADY!

WOMEN ARE NOT ATTRACTED TO WEAK BABY SITTERS! SHUT THIS DOWN! OR JOIN HER.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

utilitygy415 said:


> plan 9,
> 
> i get everything you're saying it's just that i have let her get away with this crap for so long. If she doesn't go out, things are even worse. Women need their time i get it, but i hate feeling neglected. You have the mojo working for you and then it goes down the drain because the wife is too tired or been out with friends until 3 am in the morning every weekend pretty much. It gets old, it really does. So many women in this position i guarantee would love to have their husband be as affectionate as i can be, but getting rejected so much harms my confidence.
> 
> ...



nmmng


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Yep I know she's taking advantage of me and it irritates the heck out of me to the point to where I erupt in bouts of anger... trust me you don't want to be around me when I'm angry... and when she's tipsy or drunk its even worse. She says she drinks out of boredom... She wouldn't dare to have found someone behind my back or done anything. I would've known about it. I'm not that stupid. I do my research and I have her in check mode, most of the time. The funny thing is I don't even go out much or ever, so now she's fully taking advantage of it. I'm going to setup a nice ultimatum for her. She either has sex 2-3 times a week with me or she's not going out. Or if she chooses to go out then she'll have to pay for the babysitter, because I won't be home. I'm fed up.

enough is enough,
Mike


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

I'll tell you what the issue is here, lack of mental stability. She's seriously investing more time in these GNO more than me! Not cool. I brought up divorce millions of times as well, I threatened that a lot... probably not the best thing to do, but she really pushes me to my limit and spins my head around in circles.


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## Anon Pink (Jan 17, 2013)

I can't decide if your wife is cheating or just an alcoholic.

Dude, you have much bigger problems that not getting sex.

And yet another thread in which the marriage is in the crapper but the husband is focused on not getting laid.


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## aine (Feb 15, 2014)

Threats, griping, ultimatums, anger, etc none of that is going to work Mike. You need to take decisive action without anger or raising your voice.
You need to communicate in a gentle and loving way.

Take an evening during the week (when kids in bed) and tell her you want to talk. You cover:

1. You appreciate her need for "me" time but it is getting out of hand, esp late nights
2. Her GNOs are putting her in the danger zone and you will not tolerate any crossing the line
3. GNOs from now on have to be reduced to 2-3 times a month but you will go out with her the other times
4. YOu are tired of being 'neglected' emotionally and sexually
5. Give her the opportunity to say what she needs from you.
6. You sound like she is calling the shots and setting the boundaries, perhaps you need to read No More Mr Nice Guy and get some tips
7. How young are your kids? Can you get baby sitters, etc?
8. Start romancing her, organise nice dinner, walks in the evening, a surprise play or weekend get away.

You may not feel like romancing her but if she is saying she is bored then that is already a warning sign that something has to change in the marriage otherwise another guy may be all too willing to take away the boredom. This however does not mean that the total responsibility lies with you. I do not know enough about your wife to say where most of the problem lies but she could also be one of those women who takes the H for granted. Good luck.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Apexmale said:


> I found a similiar post earlier and I responded with advice. I am going to share my same response. What is missing seems to be seduction. Seduction was and will always remain the female form of power and warfare. *For thousands of years, it was the cure to rape and violence.* It's apparent that a form of boredom has crept in taking over your wife's power of seduction over you. Your ability to alleviate this boredom by making life adventerous and exciting will make your company highly prized again.


Please explain who seduction is the cure for rape and violence.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Please explain who seduction is the cure for rape and violence.


This was back centuries ago when women had no rights. A womans only alternative was seduction to acquire power over a man.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Please explain how seduction is the cure for rape and violence.





Apexmale said:


> This was back centuries ago when women had no rights. A womans only alternative was seduction to acquire power over a man.


That still does not explain how seduction is the cure for rape and violence.

Who would have been violent if the woman did not use seduction? Why would that person be violent without seduction?


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## coupdegrace (Oct 15, 2012)

Never, Never, NEVER let your woman go out with another man (or men) without you for any reason. That's a recipe for disaster! It doesn't matter if you were friends as a group and all familiar with each other. The problem here is that you've been a pushover for so long that it's become the status quo, and deviating from that will likely cause turmoil, but you gotta cut the cord here and now.

Without shouting and causing a scene, you need to assert yourself, sit her down and tell her how things are going to be going forward. Instead of that GNO stuff, get a babysitter and have date nights. If she's dying to go to the club and get her freak on, she can do it WITH you. You want more time together, so demand it. Those things are not unreasonable. If she refuses, there's something deeper going on that needs to be resolved.


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## WandaJ (Aug 5, 2014)

Dragunov said:


> Why is it the man's job to do all the work leading up to sex? Are women the only ones who have lots of different things to worry about and stress out over? Men deal all the same thing money, job, children, home and family issues that women do.
> 
> Requiring that men do everything to eliminate all the stress from women's lives and undertake all the work to keep the relationship together and romance the women effectively makes men into slaves for sex. Sex has become the token reward dolled out by women in stingy morsels like a throwing a bone to a starving dog.
> 
> That's not equality. It's slavery.


no, it's not only men. Women do those things too.But if you complain about lack of sex, then this is good advise for you. That's all. 

Not mentioning starting earlier, flirting, sexting, all that "work" makes sex much more exciting for both partners.


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## staarz21 (Feb 6, 2013)

utilitygy415 said:


> I'll tell you what the issue is here, lack of mental stability. She's seriously investing more time in these GNO more than me! Not cool. I brought up divorce millions of times as well, I threatened that a lot... probably not the best thing to do, but she really pushes me to my limit and spins my head around in circles.


So, when are you going to follow through with it? At least start the paper work, you can always cancel it later. Since she is out all of the time with the girls (and guys), go for custody of the kids. Why not? What do you have to lose?

She has no consequences for her actions and will NOT change.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> That still does not explain how seduction is the cure for rape and violence.
> 
> Who would have been violent if the woman did not use seduction? Why would that person be violent without seduction?


Thousands of years ago, power was mostly gained through physical violence and maintained with brute strength. There was little need for sublety--a king or emperor had to be merciless. Only a select few had power, but no one suffered under this scheme more than women. They had no way to compete, no weapon at thier disposal that could make a man do what they wanted, politically, socially, or in the home.

Of course, men had one weakness: their insatiable desire for sex. A woman could always toy with his desire but once she gave in to sex the man was back in control; and if she withheld sex, he could simply look elsewhere, or use brute force. What good is a power that is so temporary? Women had no choice but to submit to this condition. 

There was some though, whose hunger for power was too great, and who over the years, through cleverness and creativity, invented a way of turning the dynamic around creating a more lasting and effective form of power over man.

Seduction. And my wife gets me every single time.


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## Centurions (Jan 31, 2013)

Greetings

Mike. Stop being weak, brother. Your wife going out to bars and clubs with her girlfriends and other men *without you*??? In what world is this ever a good thing? Never, never allow this. It never ends well. The drinking, the dancing, the giggling and gibbering she's doing with the hungry studs all around her, not to mention the whispering encouragements from her girlfriends, is not a good environment for her to be a faithful wife.

You and her need to be going out together. If that can't be done, then you stay home together, and frigg each other senseless!!! Watch movies, light some candles, put some music on, cook together. All sorts of things you can do together, at home. There's also cheap places and dinners you can do on a budget. Clubs and bars can get expensive real quick.

If she's unwilling, even uninterested in this, then kick her to the curb and find a woman that loves *you*. A woman that loves YOU will be happy having coffee at Starbucks and rolling you at home!!!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

Again I appreciate all the feedback. However, I have managed to turn around the sex life around miraculously. I'm a very sexual person, but realize that being "hypersexual" is not good. Meaning wanting to shag every day. I mean maybe if I was a bachelor then I could do that and yet I would probably still find myself unhappy. The problem with me, is I've found myself weakened by my own actions. Like someone said, I've allowed this to happen from the beginning, but she needs her social life and I need mine. I just wonder if I found a few women to talk to "socially" how she would feel. This won't be a one way street anymore. We're in the process of a move in a few months so I really need to get it together with myself. First mistake, I don't love myself ( I despise of myself actually, because of the traits that are instilled in me). So I need to love myself and if I need to masturbate once in awhile I'll do so, but from what I've learned is that "pornography" is actually toxic for a relationship and before I got married I was addicted to porn and subscribed to sites, whilst going on a spending spree like I was rich. Those were the days when I was young and really dumb.

Anyways, I think I've pretty much summed up my life story almost on here lol. So I beg my pardon on that. Thank you everyone who has contributed with excellent advice, also not all of you who gave advice were necessarily encouraging. I was expecting a few more women to speak up to see if they would have tolerated any of this or from any similar experiences? I know I'm not the only one with a sexual addiction. I'm working on it so it doesn't get out of control.


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## sapientia (Nov 24, 2012)

This thread was awesome. I especially enjoyed the seduction posts. LOL.

Today, we have women who are seductive and powerful! Eat your heart out Apexmale:

The Sexiest CEOs Alive! - Business Insider


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## utilitygy415 (Aug 1, 2015)

It's true, now a days. Women are a lot more powerful then us men actually think and yes very seductive in so many ways. Look I'm not speaking for all men, only myself from experience. You've got to give your wife credit for all the work she puts in, regardless if your not always getting some, because if sex is all you want, you might as well go get a hooker and live that lifestyle. Hopefully one day that will all dissipate and will no longer exist or be legal. Sex trafficking is real as well people, this needs to end now.


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## Apexmale (Jul 31, 2015)

sapientia said:


> This thread was awesome. I especially enjoyed the seduction posts. LOL.
> 
> Today, we have women who are seductive and powerful! Eat your heart out Apexmale:
> 
> The Sexiest CEOs Alive! - Business Insider


I found one. My wife. She has an influence on me that is far beyond the physical. I believe women should use this "seduction" power they've perfected over the centuries more often. They are far better at it than men and we can learn a lot from it! LOL


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