# She no longer love me



## Hammond_B3

Hey folks, it has been a long time since I posted. I'll try to be brief. My wife and I have been married for 40 years and we married as kids. For the the first 20 years I was a selfish bastard and ended up having a one night stand which she found out about. I have spent the last 20 years trying to make up for that drunken mistake and have not, nor would not stray again. My wife had an exceptionally ruff childhood as a foster child where there was very little love in the house. She is incapable of openly showing affection. I don't think in 40 years I have ever heard her say "I love you" without the word "too" following it if you catch my meaning and I'm the type that really needs to hear those words. I have to be careful here because she used to be very active on TAM. I don't think she is now, but she may still monitor it and knows my user name. A little over 5 years ago, while she was slamming a lot of folks for infidelity on TAM she had an affair herself. It was at the very least an emotional affair, but I'm quite certain it went physical. All the signs were there and I have a recording of her crying to her friend over the OM (man that hurt). We partially moved on, although she never apologized and would do nothing to help me heal. At that time I went though the "Love Dare process" in trying to win her back. I also threatened the OM and sent him flying. Over the last couple of months I've started to notice some of the same behavior as 5 years ago. I calmly asked her if she was seeing someone and she said no. I then asked her if she loves me and she said no. I am crushed to say the least. I have loved her for 42 years. How do you turn that off. To complicate things, we have two adopted children in high school who know nothing about this. We don't actually fight. We are talking separation. She has some serious issues from her upbringing, she don't know what will make her happy, she's addicted to social media and does not want me. As I said I spent the last 20 years trying to be a good husband, giving her everything she could want or need and nursed her back to health after a near devastating health crisis. She rewarded my right after with the affair. Folks, I love her and all I want is for her to love me. I'm now attempting to go through the 180 U turn, but it is harder on me than on her. I suspect she is happy that I leave her alone. There is so much more to this story, which may come out in later posts, but I wanted to be brief. Your prayers would be good and any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening.


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## UpsideDownWorld11

There is really nothing to do except find a Lawyer ASAP. Go no contact with her except your kids, get a gym membership if you don't already have one. Start separating your finances. It will take a bit, but you will get through it and the happier/stronger for it. 

One day you will be shocked to hear a woman say "I love you" uninitiated.


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## brooklynAnn

So sorry. Since, she knows all the usual steps, nothing you do would surprise her or motivate her to change towards you. She knows the playbook.

What would you like, if she can never love you again? What would you be able to live without her loving You? And do you believe you would be given a choice?


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## Hammond_B3

Tough question. She is going through a very tough time at work right now, which is seasonal and I don't want to sound mean but menopausal issues could all be adding to her emotional state right now. I don't want to hold up false hope, but I don't want to be premature in what I do either. If after a short time she still has the same lack of feelings for me, I'll have to jump off that cliff when I come to it. I know folks will start telling me to gather information for divorce court, but this is Ohio, which is a no fault divorce state. She could openly step out on me and provide videos of the same and it will not matter. Besides wanting her love, I want to make sure the kids are OK.


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## 3Xnocharm

Don't 180 to try and get her back, do it so that you can learn to move forward without her. It sounds like you would be better off without her. It sounds like she has been faking your marriage these last years since her affair, and don't you deserve better than that? I certainly think you do.


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## brooklynAnn

I am going thru menopause and while I do think about murdering my husband 10 times a week, 🤣 during certain times, I have not stop loving him. My sister is probally going to die from thyroid cancer and most hours my heart hurts for her and her kids, I can still love my family. And hold them close.

You might want to stop making excuses for why she is the way she is. And accept your wife has stop loving you. Once, you accept that, you will figure out what you need to do for you and your kids. 

I wish you well and hope that it all works out for you.


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## FieryHairedLady

Sorry to hear all this. Is she willing to go to counseling?


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## BluesPower

Hammond_B3 said:


> Tough question. She is going through a very tough time at work right now, which is seasonal and I don't want to sound mean but menopausal issues could all be adding to her emotional state right now. I don't want to hold up false hope, but I don't want to be premature in what I do either. If after a short time she still has the same lack of feelings for me, I'll have to jump off that cliff when I come to it. I know folks will start telling me to gather information for divorce court, but this is Ohio, which is a no fault divorce state. She could openly step out on me and provide videos of the same and it will not matter. Besides wanting her love, I want to make sure the kids are OK.


Brother, you are 60 years old. How much longer do you think you have to pine over your wife not loving you. 

She is acting like she did during the affair, 5 years later. Do you think that she will tell you the truth about the affair. She seems to be back in the same affair or a different one. 

Look, you made a bad choice with the ONS, but come on, 20 years and at least one if not two revenge affairs that you know about. How much longer are you going to pay for your ONS. 

At least she actually honest enough to tell you she does not love you. So you at least have that. 

Seriously, file for divorce and try and enjoy the time that you have left. 

You should have already ended this Non-Loving marriage years ago. 

Please, just let go already...


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## sokillme

Hammond_B3 said:


> Hey folks, it has been a long time since I posted. I'll try to be brief. My wife and I have been married for 40 years and we married as kids. For the the first 20 years I was a selfish bastard and ended up having a one night stand which she found out about. I have spent the last 20 years trying to make up for that drunken mistake and have not, nor would not stray again. My wife had an exceptionally ruff childhood as a foster child where there was very little love in the house. She is incapable of openly showing affection. I don't think in 40 years I have ever heard her say "I love you" without the word "too" following it if you catch my meaning and I'm the type that really needs to hear those words. I have to be careful here because she used to be very active on TAM. I don't think she is now, but she may still monitor it and knows my user name. A little over 5 years ago, while she was slamming a lot of folks for infidelity on TAM she had an affair herself. It was at the very least an emotional affair, but I'm quite certain it went physical. All the signs were there and I have a recording of her crying to her friend over the OM (man that hurt). We partially moved on, although she never apologized and would do nothing to help me heal. At that time I went though the "Love Dare process" in trying to win her back. I also threatened the OM and sent him flying. Over the last couple of months I've started to notice some of the same behavior as 5 years ago. I calmly asked her if she was seeing someone and she said no. I then asked her if she loves me and she said no. I am crushed to say the least. I have loved her for 42 years. How do you turn that off. To complicate things, we have two adopted children in high school who know nothing about this. We don't actually fight. We are talking separation. She has some serious issues from her upbringing, she don't know what will make her happy, she's addicted to social media and does not want me. As I said I spent the last 20 years trying to be a good husband, giving her everything she could want or need and nursed her back to health after a near devastating health crisis. She rewarded my right after with the affair. Folks, I love her and all I want is for her to love me. I'm now attempting to go through the 180 U turn, but it is harder on me than on her. I suspect she is happy that I leave her alone. There is so much more to this story, which may come out in later posts, but I wanted to be brief. Your prayers would be good and any advice greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening.


You can't make her. You are trying to make something that has very little chance of happening work. She sound's like a jerk and a phony. There is better out there. Over and over you see these stories and the one thing is true with all of them, the BS believes their WS is the key to happiness. That is just a straight up lie. I get it this is who you are used to but she is also a bad wife. Move on with your life and look for better. Kill your love for her for your own sanity. You can't make her not be a jerk, you can only move on from her.

Your wife is a selfish cruel phony, you don't think you can do better then that. Even if you didn't no one would never be happy with that. Move on.


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## Evinrude58

Wouldn’t it be nice to hear a woman tell you that she loves you, and know she means it?

Your wife told you she doesn’t love you.
Any more seconds you spend on her is wasted time you could be spending with a woman who adores you.

I know it’s been a long time with her.
You know it’s been over for years with her.
Set both of you free.
Once a woman stops loving her husband—- it’s gone. It’ll never come back.
Sorry, but you need to accept it and move on before you waste your years on her.


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## jlcrome

Wow last 20 years!!!!! If I read this right man that's gotta be unimaginable. Winning her back be nearly impossible but not far fetched. Gotta use reverse psychology just go ahead and end the marriage act done go on with life ASAP. Move on, don't communicate unless necessary, enjoy life, find a new hobby, enjoy being single, find new friends. If all possible find a new lover!! Be proud of your new self, no apologies, move on. Wait a few months maybe you be in the arms of a woman that cherishes you and adores you. There's one thing for sure that get's an attention of a stubborn woman it's called jealousy!!!! But if it was me I be out ASAP and not look back. 
Jealousy is in women's dna the sooner you in the arms in another woman the quicker that mental light switch in you current wife will switch over. But I think the life of singleness is very appealing.


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## EveningThoughts

......


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## Hammond_B3

Evening thoughts. You bring up some good thoughts. The first 20 years I was not a good husband. I thought more of me than anything or anyone. When I had the ONS and saw the look of hurt in her eyes it was like a switch flipped inside my head. I told myself I would never hurt or betray her again. I think I finally grew up. Actually, my timing is a bit off. Thinking about it, the ONS happened when I was 30, so that was 30 years ago. How does she know I’m faithfull now ? For one thing i let her know where I’m at all times. We have done so much together and are always together.


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## aine

Hammond_B3 said:


> Evening thoughts. You bring up some good thoughts. The first 20 years I was not a good husband. I thought more of me than anything or anyone. When I had the ONS and saw the look of hurt in her eyes it was like a switch flipped inside my head. I told myself I would never hurt or betray her again. I think I finally grew up. Actually, my timing is a bit off. Thinking about it, the ONS happened when I was 30, so that was 30 years ago. How does she know I’m faithfull now ? For one thing i let her know where I’m at all times. We have done so much together and are always together.


I am sorry but when a woman is done, she is done. I am sure she brought up all the issues in the marriage over and over, did you listen, did you talk to her about it, did you shut her down and move on with things and hope she would stop 'nagging'?

What did you do to help her recover from the ONS? I think her revenge affairs sowed her she could hurt you and you would still be around. Once trust is broken it is very hard to recover. I think you have suffered long enough, time to sit her down and tell her that you want a divorce.
See her reaction, that will be you absolute answer.


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## Openminded

Very long marriages aren't necessarily happy marriages. I know that all too well. You asked if she loved you and she told you she doesn't. The next question to ask is whether she is finally done or does she want to work on the marriage. Then you'll know what you need to do.


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## Taxman

If this is over, then the 180 will be of immense help in detachment, and self preservation. No kidding. More than one client has said that detaching before separation was a godsend. I do not want to get into semantics here, but detachment will also give you the cues as to your life going forward. First, if she is screwing you around, your detachment will cause behavior escalation in your partner. If there is similar detachment, then you know that this is completely warranted. That will be the final answer. It will be less stressful when the separation occurs, that you have emotionally detached and any and all contact from that point going forward is strictly business.

I note that you are about 60, it can be a burn in later age to have the long standing marriage fall apart, however, bear in mind that she is at least in the mid to late stage of menopause. This is the age where we feel the stress at work more than when we were in our 20s, 30's er even 40"s. To be frank, our stamina for crap ain't what it once was. She is probably feeling it pretty hard. Given your history, did you ever try MC? We have been there, and it was good for us. Would not hurt to bring it up.


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## sunsetmist

Hammond_B3 said:


> ... The first 20 years I was not a good husband. I thought more of me than anything or anyone. When I had the ONS and saw the look of hurt in her eyes it was like a switch flipped inside my head. I told myself I would never hurt or betray her again. .......We have done so much together and are always together.


You married someone (from the foster system) who was raised in a climate of rejection. Then you treated her badly for years and had a ONS--more rejection. Remember that look in her eyes--broken trust = broken heart and protective mind from future hurt. 

She has learned that intimacy in her life leads to pain, so her defensive mechanism is--don't trust, don't love. 

I don't know details or if the neglect in marriage and sexual infidelity of both have been properly addressed.

As life progresses, efforts to pretend--keep on the masks--take too much energy to sustain. Together in physical proximity has little to do with emotional togetherness. Loneliness within marriage is sad, so sad.


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## Rick Blaine

@Hammond_B3, you need to have a long discussion with your wife. Ask her if she believes that her love can return if you both put in the work. You need to rebuild your love banks. It can be done. Read His Needs, Her Needs and Love Busters. Go through the exercises. The principles in these books have saved marriages that were left for dead. Your marriage is worth fighting for, but only if she is willing to try. Make a proposition to her. Let her know why you think it's worth saving and ask her if she believes there are reasons it's worth saving. It is not too late to learn to meet each other's emotional needs. But she has to be willing to try, and so do you. And you have to be willing to let the process work over time. It can be a long process. If she offers reasons why the marriage is worth saving, ask her to take your hand and join you in a long march towards restoration. If she isn't willing, then I agree with other here: Do the 180, let her go, and move forward with your life. 

If she is willing to give it a try, I would suggest that after reading both books and discussing them you take a long vacation with her and use that as a chance to wipe the slate clean and begin the lifelong process of painting a masterpiece on a new canvas. 



aine said:


> I am sorry but when a woman is done, she is done.


I would modify this to: When an uncommitted woman is done, she is done." Because I don't believe this is true of all women. Most marriages make it, and the women in those marriages that stay intact aren't married to perfect men either. But they have a growth mindset. They value their marriage and love their husbands for better or worse. Together they grow rather than allowing themselves to grow apart. Growing apart is an excuse to divorce, not a legitimate reason. 

It's not okay to check out of a marriage if the other spouse is making an effort to fix things. I'm no longer in love with my husband, and nothing can change that. This attitude is what Carol Dweck calls a fixed mindset, and it comes from a belief that we don't have the tools to fix our problems and evolve in our endeavors. Sometimes clear communication in the form of a 2x4 is needed. When a wife is unhappy, there needs to be a sit-down conversation and a clear explanation of where this is headed should be stated by the wife. For example, "I am going to leave if you don't change ________." Men don't always hear the message when their wife complains. Maybe that's not right, but its true. I have learned through experience that I have to really listen carefully to my significant other when she communicates with me and tune in to what is making her unhappy. This is not a natural process for men, especially young, inexperienced men. If I had a son, I'd be training him now. 

The OP was selfish when he was younger. Guess what. That's part of being young and dumb. Was his wife perfect back then? I doubt it. I'm not whitewashing his ONS. Big mistake and a possible deal breaker. But he did turn a new leaf and put a good faith effort into reforming himself into a better husband. That's the evolution spouses must strive for. 

It takes two in marriage. When one tries and the other gives up when their spouse is trying, the one giving up has broken the vows and its on them. They are not willing to put in the work that will bring back the feelings of love that once were there and they don't accept how love evolves over time in a long-term relationship. They are by their very definition a renter, not an owner. Renters should not marry again. 

I hope the OP wife's turns out to be an owner and the marriage is salvaged. Prayers for you and your wife, Hammond.


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## BluesPower

@sunsetmist AND @Rick Blaine: 

Guys, with all respect, this marriage is done, unless OP her is the weakest man in the history of the world. 

I had been raked over the coals for 20 years for a ONS. Not that that is not an serious thing, but 20 years? 

His wife has had a full blown affair, for who knows how long and it is probably still active, and she tells him that she does not love him? No way, no how.

Any man with the slightest amount of self respect would ever go back to that, please don't tell him too...


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## BluesPower

Hammond_B3 said:


> Evening thoughts. You bring up some good thoughts. The first 20 years I was not a good husband. I thought more of me than anything or anyone. When I had the ONS and saw the look of hurt in her eyes it was like a switch flipped inside my head. I told myself I would never hurt or betray her again. I think I finally grew up. Actually, my timing is a bit off. Thinking about it, the ONS happened when I was 30, so that was 30 years ago. How does she know I’m faithfull now ? For one thing i let her know where I’m at all times. We have done so much together and are always together.


Listen, did you read what the other people and myself wrote? 

She is not in love with you, and she more than likely is still having an affair. Either way, please have some self respect and divorce her. 

You have paid long enough for your bad decision. She has paid nothing for her. The pain that you saw in her eyes is the pain you are feeling. 

But she had an affair, still having???, knowing the pain that it would cause. 

Please listen to us, and just get a divorce and start a new life...


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## Hammond_B3

Thanks everyone for your replies. Some were very helpful, while others were the typical “ditch the *****” responses that are so typical on TAM, were not. We had a long talk yesterday and I don’t know if we can move forward. She really has some emotional issues that she has to work through. Of course in her eyes right now I’m to blame for everything including the assasination of JFK. She is looking for a therapist to help her sort this out. She is not a happy person and has convinced herself that she can find happiness in a world without me in it even if it turns everyone else’s world upside down. Please know I’m not a saint and I’m certain I have said and done many things to contribute to her unhappiness, but I can’t fix or change things that happened 10, 20 or even 40 years ago. After our discussion, my way forward has become very clear to me. Prayers are welcome.


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## BluesPower

Hammond_B3 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. Some were very helpful, while others were the typical “ditch the *****” responses that are so typical on TAM, were not. We had a long talk yesterday and I don’t know if we can move forward. She really has some emotional issues that she has to work through. Of course in her eyes right now I’m to blame for everything including the assasination of JFK. She is looking for a therapist to help her sort this out. She is not a happy person and has convinced herself that she can find happiness in a world without me in it even if it turns everyone else’s world upside down. Please know I’m not a saint and I’m certain I have said and done many things to contribute to her unhappiness, but I can’t fix or change things that happened 10, 20 or even 40 years ago. After our discussion, my way forward has become very clear to me. Prayers are welcome.


So, you are complaining at those of us that told you she does not love you at all, and telling you to divorce, and you cryptic response seems to say that you are divorcing?

However it is so cryptic I am not sure what you are really saying so how would we know what to pray for?


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## Hammond_B3

BluesPower, sorry if I touched a nerve, but I've been a member of TAM a long time (yes, previously under another id) and it seems there are many who immediately jump to giving advice to split up. That happened here. Splitting up is not what I want, but it may be inevitable that we do. My request for prayer is three fold, first that she can find help for unresolved issues and be happy, two that we can work it out and three that I have the strength and courage to do what I have to do in whatever happens. Thank you.


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## 3Xnocharm

Usually we advise to split when we can clearly see the glaringly obvious reality. We don't like to see others suffer in misery any longer than they should. Just because you love someone doesn't mean keeping them is the right thing to do.


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## BluesPower

Hammond_B3 said:


> BluesPower, sorry if I touched a nerve, but I've been a member of TAM a long time (yes, previously under another id) and it seems there are many who immediately jump to giving advice to split up. That happened here. Splitting up is not what I want, but it may be inevitable that we do. My request for prayer is three fold, first that she can find help for unresolved issues and be happy, two that we can work it out and three that I have the strength and courage to do what I have to do in whatever happens. Thank you.


It is not a nerve for me, it is a nerve, so to speak, for men that allow themselves to remain in these situations. 

Now, many of us believe that she is still in the affair, maybe so, maybe no. But she already had an affair, and biblically, you are clearly within your rights to divorce her. 

Men like you that we feel like we have to knock upside the head are the reason the we recommend divorce. 

When a woman cheats and is not remorseful, real remorse, then your only sane option should be divorce and stay away. 

You can believe in unicorns all you want, but is will not change anything. 

God does not want anyone to suffer needlessly like you are. 

The bible aside, have some self respect, please...


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## Evinrude58

She told you she doesn't love you.

Let that sink in.

I wish I would have had the opportunity to convince Catherine Bell on Jag that she should love me. it would have been great.
Sadly, trying to convince a woman who doesn't love a guy, is like trying to convince a meteor into going back into space.

If your wife said she loved you, if she said she wanted to try, if she hadn't been in an affair, IF IF IF........ there might be advice you might want to listen to.

Sometimes the advice you fear/hate the most is the advice you need to hear. 

You don't have to be miserable. You don't have to be alone. YOU can move on to a better life if you wanted. But right now, you're wanting to stay in limbo in order to hope your wife back into loving you. Most don't think it will work. 

Wish I could say you had a chance, but if your wife has had an affair and told you she no longer loves you---- not a lot to work with.


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## Girl Gone

This is Mrs. Hammond B3...

I thought I could let this go...but I can’t. 

First off, there was no affair. Ever. There was a male friend (my only friend at the time) giving me sound advice on how to cope with a husband who pushed my hands away and told me to “get off” when I tried to initiate intimacy. And how to deal with a man either falling asleep or faking sleep during a BJ. I had recently had surgery, I was sensitive about my appearance, and I assumed the he was grossed out at the sight of me. My friend encouraged me to take care of myself but he never once laid a hand on me. Was I emotionally dependent on him? Yes. I didn’t have anyone else. 

Those things I mentioned had a logical explanation but they were not shared with me until after the fact and I was left to assume otherwise. 

When I was ill, and recovering from surgery, he went above and beyond in caring for me. At no time did I repay his good with evil. 

My childhood was pretty sad and I suppose it has affected me for most of my life. Right now is my busy season at work and I’m unusually stressed. I do not blame Hammond B3 for everything. A lot of it was a community effort. Some of it wasn’t. Some things, old hurts and neglect can come back to haunt you years after the event. If that fair? No. It was my fault for sweeping it under the rug when it happened. As for the one night stand, I never once threw that in his face and I accepted his apology at the time. There were no revenge affairs, although I did think about it at times, but it was no more than a brief thought. 

He left off some facts...just last weekend...I asked him to stop with the f bombs in front of the children...he asked me how many people are in the U.S. I said “ a lot” and he told me to go find one that didn’t say “f”. He started a conversation a few days again leading with “I’ve been thinking about moving into an apartment”... His temper is bad, he knee jerks responses to me, and a few times he’s even hit me. 

There are 3 sides to every single story...even here on TAM. This user name is not the one I used to use so no I’m not a newbie. 

I never saw myself here at this point in my life. I don’t think he did either because I think he assumed I’d just continue to put up with the status quo. There comes a point when you just can’t take your life as it is any longer.

And by the way, there is nothing to read into my user name ... at all. It was a play on words from a movie title.


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## sokillme

Hammond_B3 said:


> Thanks everyone for your replies. Some were very helpful, while others were the typical “ditch the *****” responses that are so typical on TAM.


That's cause generally it's the best advice, but if you want to live the rest of your life with someone who doesn't love you more power too you. It's just that most won't settle for this.


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## sokillme

Girl Gone said:


> This is Mrs. Hammond B3...
> 
> I thought I could let this go...but I can’t.
> 
> First off, there was no affair. Ever. There was a male friend (my only friend at the time) giving me sound advice on how to cope with a husband who pushed my hands away and told me to “get off” when I tried to initiate intimacy. And how to deal with a man either falling asleep or faking sleep during a BJ. I had recently had surgery, I was sensitive about my appearance, and I assumed the he was grossed out at the sight of me. My friend encouraged me to take care of myself but he never once laid a hand on me. Was I emotionally dependent on him? Yes. I didn’t have anyone else.
> 
> Those things I mentioned had a logical explanation but they were not shared with me until after the fact and I was left to assume otherwise.
> 
> When I was ill, and recovering from surgery, he went above and beyond in caring for me. At no time did I repay his good with evil.
> 
> My childhood was pretty sad and I suppose it has affected me for most of my life. Right now is my busy season at work and I’m unusually stressed. I do not blame Hammond B3 for everything. A lot of it was a community effort. Some of it wasn’t. Some things, old hurts and neglect can come back to haunt you years after the event. If that fair? No. It was my fault for sweeping it under the rug when it happened. As for the one night stand, I never once threw that in his face and I accepted his apology at the time. There were no revenge affairs, although I did think about it at times, but it was no more than a brief thought.
> 
> He left off some facts...just last weekend...I asked him to stop with the f bombs in front of the children...he asked me how many people are in the U.S. I said “ a lot” and he told me to go find one that didn’t say “f”. He started a conversation a few days again leading with “I’ve been thinking about moving into an apartment”... His temper is bad, he knee jerks responses to me, and a few times he’s even hit me.
> 
> There are 3 sides to every single story...even here on TAM. This user name is not the one I used to use so no I’m not a newbie.
> 
> I never saw myself here at this point in my life. I don’t think he did either because I think he assumed I’d just continue to put up with the status quo. There comes a point when you just can’t take your life as it is any longer.
> 
> And by the way, there is nothing to read into my user name ... at all. It was a play on words from a movie title.


Another good example of "if you want good advice you should be honest and give a full account of the situation". We can only give advice for what is posted. I guess you can't expect that from someone who hits his wife though.

I will change my advice to say you are smart not love him any more. Next you should leave him, you deserve better.


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## Girl Gone

sokillme said:


> Another good example of "if you want good advice you should be honest and give a full account of the situation". We can only give advice for what is posted. I guess you can't expect that from someone who hits his wife though.
> 
> I will change my advice to say you are smart not love him any more. Next you should leave him, you deserve better.


In all honesty, he has some very good points as well. He is an excellent father and a hard worker. I think there are unresolved anger issues at play. I don’t walk on water either. But then, I only know only man that did. 

It’s does no good to dig up old tapes, but they still play no matter what.


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## Hammond_B3

Folks, sorry for us airing dirty laundry on TAM. I'm assuming this will get both of us booted form the site. I mentioned a couple of things, first that I am by no means a saint and have contributed to her feelings. That was just confirmed. Secondly, I intended to be brief, but said other parts of the story would surface over time. Well, that certainly just happened. Again, I do apologize and it appears I will need to find somewhere else did vent and seek advice. I still solicit your prayers. Thank you.


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## Openminded

Girl Gone said:


> This is Mrs. Hammond B3...
> 
> I thought I could let this go...but I can’t.
> 
> First off, there was no affair. Ever. There was a male friend (my only friend at the time) giving me sound advice on how to cope with a husband who pushed my hands away and told me to “get off” when I tried to initiate intimacy. And how to deal with a man either falling asleep or faking sleep during a BJ. I had recently had surgery, I was sensitive about my appearance, and I assumed the he was grossed out at the sight of me. My friend encouraged me to take care of myself but he never once laid a hand on me. Was I emotionally dependent on him? Yes. I didn’t have anyone else.
> 
> Those things I mentioned had a logical explanation but they were not shared with me until after the fact and I was left to assume otherwise.
> 
> When I was ill, and recovering from surgery, he went above and beyond in caring for me. At no time did I repay his good with evil.
> 
> My childhood was pretty sad and I suppose it has affected me for most of my life. Right now is my busy season at work and I’m unusually stressed. I do not blame Hammond B3 for everything. A lot of it was a community effort. Some of it wasn’t. Some things, old hurts and neglect can come back to haunt you years after the event. If that fair? No. It was my fault for sweeping it under the rug when it happened. As for the one night stand, I never once threw that in his face and I accepted his apology at the time. There were no revenge affairs, although I did think about it at times, but it was no more than a brief thought.
> 
> He left off some facts...just last weekend...I asked him to stop with the f bombs in front of the children...he asked me how many people are in the U.S. I said “ a lot” and he told me to go find one that didn’t say “f”. He started a conversation a few days again leading with “I’ve been thinking about moving into an apartment”... His temper is bad, he knee jerks responses to me, and a few times he’s even hit me.
> 
> There are 3 sides to every single story...even here on TAM. This user name is not the one I used to use so no I’m not a newbie.
> 
> I never saw myself here at this point in my life. I don’t think he did either because I think he assumed I’d just continue to put up with the status quo. There comes a point when you just can’t take your life as it is any longer.
> 
> And by the way, there is nothing to read into my user name ... at all. It was a play on words from a movie title.


Thanks for posting. Helps to hear the other side.


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## 3Xnocharm

You wont get booted for your spouse coming here and posting.


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## Hammond_B3

All, my wife and I have had a couple of decent conversations in the last couple of days. We are working through some things. One thing that we talked in great detail was the affair I mentioned. I do now believe her that it did not go physical, although we have very different definitions of what constitutes an emotional affair. To her what she had was a good friend that happened to be a man, to me she gave her emotions to another man. That right now is the sticking point for us. I am and will probably always have a sore spot over this and may never get completely over it, so I'm always looking at her actions in that light. If she says a cross word to me or escapes into social media my mind will rush to 4 years ago and it shouldn't. She has issues from being a foster child in a ruff environment that she needs to deal with. We also had some very weird things happen that we both handled improperly, that caused a boat load of issues. OK, I should not do this I will spell it out. I was experiencing issues with ED and was embarrassed by it and would not admit it. I said some very mean things to her trying to stay out of sexual situations that she read as I was discussed by her appearance after surgery. This created hurt on her part and caused division. Then I started taking Ambien to sleep and was not aware of the "ambien effect" and made some extremely hurtful and off the wall comments without knowing I did that hurt her immensely causing more issues. Neither of us knew about the effects of Ambien. You, see we are both a bundle of nerves with a boat load of hurt that has probably not been dealt with properly. I do ask that you all please do not trash her on this forum. If I might lighten the story just a bit, she found out I had posted this when I again, under the influence of Ambien, fell asleep with my iPad on TAM and she saw it putting it away.


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## 3Xnocharm

Hammond_B3 said:


> All, my wife and I have had a couple of decent conversations in the last couple of days. We are working through some things. One thing that we talked in great detail was the affair I mentioned. I do now believe her that it did not go physical, although we have very different definitions of what constitutes an emotional affair. To her what she had was a good friend that happened to be a man, to me she gave her emotions to another man. That right now is the sticking point for us.


For what its worth, I agree with you on this.


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## FieryHairedLady

Well the best of luck to both of you in working on your marriage.


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## Emerging Buddhist

That past is the past... what are you doing to get in control of your emotions (poor reactions) today?

It's those actions you will build a new foundation on.


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## Evinrude58

Sounds like an affair if he's "the only one you could talk to" and you did "emotionally depend on him.

When one gives another person their emotions, the ones that were once present for the old partner disappear fast.

Sounds like there's a lot of things going on here that only you guys and a damn good marriage counselor could fix. And if Girl Gone doesn't want them fixed, it's hopeless.
If OP doesn't truly want to change his ways, worse than hopeless.

OP, the most hurtful thing you could do other than cheating on your wife is to constantly make her feel unsafe in your relationship. You really gotta put yourself in your wife's shoes and feel the sting of you telling her to find someone else. Even though it was clearly a comment just said in anger, it's still hurtful. 
I do believe that once a man keeps on hurting his wife for long enough, the off switch finally gets thrown. Turning the feelings back on again is probably a feat accomplished only with the help of One who performs miracles.
I'll pray that he performs one on the both of you, and that you both wind up with happier lives. The miracle may not be the one you're praying for now, though, OP.
Be able to accept the path you're granted no matter if a door opens to your wife, or to other things.
Good luck.


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## Edmund

Hammond B3...

By the way, do you play one in a rock band? Are you another Jon Lord?

I don't know why but I actually think this marriage / relationship is fixable or at least can be substantially improved. My advice (not knowing you two or anything really except what you posted):

1) Whatever happened with Gone Girl in regard to her male friend, just forgive and forget. You probably should thank him for giving her support when she needed it. If it went physical, unless she bore him a child or got an STD, she's still the same... not contaminated or unclean or whatever you are thinking. She is still with you, and by YOUR OWN WORDS you don't sound like much of a prize. Gone Girl seems to have forgiven you for the ONS. Nobody's perfect.

2) Stop using the F word. Especially around the kids. Yeah we all say it now and then but we try not to say it all the time. Think of some other adjectives.

3) When your Gone Girl looks really good, tell her she looks f..ng awesome. (No wait, don't use f...ng.) When she looks the way she usually looks tell her she looks really great. When she looks pretty bad (we all have days you know), give her a look and tell her that on her worst day ever you still love her and the way she looks even then.

4) If the operation site looks like Dr. Frankenstein's work, tell Gone Girl it is No Big Deal, you still think she is sexy. If you don't think that, re-think it and see if you don't think she is sexy even with a few flaws.

5) Try to stay awake while making love. Or try making love at times when you both are wide awake.

6) Don't be embarassed about ED. I suddenly developed it at age 60 (hence my user name starts with Ed) and discovered TAM while searching for medical answers. My work on this problem shows that, for me, the most effective treatment is exercise, specifically weight lifting. I find Cialis is somewhat effective but not a cure. My wife doesn't give me any grief about it (I appreciate that, and Gone Girl should try to do same). I discovered that it is possible to have orgasm and ejaculate when you don't have an erection (who knew?).

7) Both of you let each other "win" arguments even when you think you are "right". Just say you're sorry, and be sorry; (for whatever you did or said that you didn't realize would be taken another way).

8) Have dates with each other occasionally. Be grateful that you still have each other and your children.

I will pray for you both.


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## Openminded

I believe she said you hit her more than once (not that even once is okay)? What's the story there?


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## Hammond_B3

There was never any hitting. We have snuffled a few times and once she fell during a scuffle. I felt awful about that and that will never happen again. I would never hit her, ever.


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## nekonamida

Excellent fathers don't drop f bombs in front of their kids and hit their children's mother. That is only reserved for terrible fathers and no amount of good parenting can make up for domestic abuse. With a bar set that low, hardly anyone qualifies as a bad parent. Ask the kids who have lived through it whose parents never laid a hand on them. It still scared them for life. There's a reason child services will remove kids from the home even if the parents only beat on each other.

Mrs. Hammond, I hope your IC challenges the pedestal that you put your husband on and points how out manipulative he is being. I hope they open your eyes to how your marriage is abusive and help you learn how to free yourself whether that's by detaching, demanding that he gets help, or walking away.

Mr. Hammond, I hope you see an IC and be far more truthful than you have been with us. And if your wife can't get over your current verbal abuse and potential for future violence, I hope you let her go amicably so that she can find someone who treats her decently while you work on yourself.

For the record, I consider her male friend an EA too but this marriage has far bigger fish to fry.


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## WorkingWife

brooklynAnn said:


> I am going thru menopause and while I do think about murdering my husband 10 times a week, 🤣 during certain times, I have not stop loving him. My sister is probally going to die from thyroid cancer and most hours my heart hurts for her and her kids, I can still love my family. And hold them close.
> 
> You might want to stop making excuses for why she is the way she is. And accept your wife has stop loving you. Once, you accept that, *you will figure out what you need to do for you and your kids*.
> 
> I wish you well and hope that it all works out for you.


To the OP: It is sad that she had a rough childhood and it sounds like she's not really capable of love. (Attachment disorder, maybe?) But the bottom line, no matter what the cause, you will never get what you want and need from this marriage. Let her go and find someone who not only can say "I love you" to you, but feels it and wants to say it. And give your children the opportunity to see a functional relationship, or at least see that you don't have to settle for crumbs.


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## Hammond_B3

Edmond, I was actually going to stop responding to the question I posted, but decided to respond to you. Thank you for your thoughts. You made some good points. As for complementing her, I do and always have. She is beautiful and surgical scars have not changed that in any way. I don't even see them. I tell her how beautiful she is and that I love her several times a day. I think she would acknowledge that.

As for falling asleep during sex, she did not know I was under the influence of Ambien when she initiated sex and assumed I was just not interested and was hurt by that.

As for ED, Cialis daily worked great for me, but when I changed insurance they stopped covering it. Things started getting much better in that area after I lost nearly 70 pounds and started working out just recently. I've not been able to test my recovery as of late due to the break down in our relationship. 

I am making a serious effort to control my language. She is correct in that I should not do this. I'm looking into my works EAP program for counseling concerning my anger and have already started the online evaluations and training before seeing a counselor. 

Finally, I hope that you are correct in that our marriage can be saved. I just hope that she has not already made up her mind and permanently shut me down. I'm trying to gauge that and if she has, I need to prepare to move forward without her.


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## Evinrude58

There’s an easy way to know without gauging anything. Just ask her. She’s told you she doesn’t love you. If you ask and she says she wants to divorce, you’d be wise to respect those wishes. Chasing her will end badly.

Cut her loose if that’s what she wants. If she’s happier free of you, you shouldn’t want her anyway.

Moving forward isn’t as bad as it seems now.

Lastly, if you feel poorly about being a bad husband, I assure you that 99% of all other men have been horrible husbands as well in select moments, which women seem to have memories like supercomputers for. It’s not a reason for you to carry all the load of guilt. You can bet she’s got her cross to bear also.

If you try to reinvent yourself only for her—- it’s likely too late for that and wouldn’t stick anyway.


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## Thound

If you beg, coerce, threaten, etc to make her stay, you will be more miserable than you are now. Let her decide what she wants to do. Just have your boundaries and if she cant abide by them let her go. She does have a monopoly on anything.


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## Girl Gone

An update from Mrs. Hammond ...

The entire time Mr. Hammond was writing and responding to this thread, he was chatting up women on a dating site. While living in our home. He was also already searching for an apartment. 

He moved out into a dump of an apartment (a far cry from our beautiful home) and started dating. One woman, a nurse, dumped him 15 minutes into the coffee date. Another woman (he went to her home on the first date, an online person) gave him a lap dance but she too dumped him after the first date. He hooked up with a very unattractive and hillbilly woman, also from the dating site and proceeded to have sex with her immediately because she was desperate for a man guess. Or maybe just a skank. Who knows...

A few weeks later He wanted to reconcile and I was agreeable until I pulled the phone records and found he was begging for reconciliation all the while chatting up yet another woman. I was done.

I took time to get my financial act together and divorced him this past September. I bought a 3 bedroom condo on a golf course and the children and pets live with me. I was promoted and received a raise. I’m involved with my new church. I have a new relationship with a very kind man I knew from high school. 

There never was an affair. I found a text conversation on his phone to that skank where he referred to me as a wh***. That was part of the last straw. 

Thank you for assuring me that I deserved better than I was settling for...the cursing, the hits, the infidelity, the financial burden of all his toys (Harley, corvette, basement FULL of musical instruments). 

I’ve often thought of this thread and decided to come back for an update. Thank you all.


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## Lila

Girl Gone said:


> An update from Mrs. Hammond ...
> 
> The entire time Mr. Hammond was writing and responding to this thread, he was chatting up women on a dating site. While living in our home. He was also already searching for an apartment.
> 
> He moved out into a dump of an apartment (a far cry from our beautiful home) and started dating. One woman, a nurse, dumped him 15 minutes into the coffee date. Another woman (he went to her home on the first date, an online person) gave him a lap dance but she too dumped him after the first date. He hooked up with a very unattractive and hillbilly woman, also from the dating site and proceeded to have sex with her immediately because she was desperate for a man guess. Or maybe just a skank. Who knows...
> 
> A few weeks later He wanted to reconcile and I was agreeable until I pulled the phone records and found he was begging for reconciliation all the while chatting up yet another woman. I was done.
> 
> I took time to get my financial act together and divorced him this past September. I bought a 3 bedroom condo on a golf course and the children and pets live with me. I was promoted and received a raise. I’m involved with my new church. I have a new relationship with a very kind man I knew from high school.
> 
> There never was an affair. I found a text conversation on his phone to that skank where he referred to me as a wh***. That was part of the last straw.
> 
> Thank you for assuring me that I deserved better than I was settling for...the cursing, the hits, the infidelity, the financial burden of all his toys (Harley, corvette, basement FULL of musical instruments).
> 
> I’ve often thought of this thread and decided to come back for an update. Thank you all.


Thank you for updating. 

Glad to hear you are in a happier place. You sound like a super strong person.


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## Casual Observer

Um, er, never mind? A bit confused but it appears a prior post changes the context of everything?



FieryHairedLady said:


> Sorry to hear all this. Is she willing to go to counseling?


I'm also wondering, given her obviously-traumatic childhood, if she'd had trauma-oriented counseling in the past? Going on auto-pilot for 40 years with a significant mental health issue is a recipe for disaster. Not that I know anything about such things. 

At this point I doubt ages-old trauma can be appropriately addressed since she's fully accepted a lifestyle based on her mental state, and already has explored alternatives to her current married life. She's moved on, and you cannot force a person who's moved on into therapy. You can't really force anyone into therapy, but at least you've got a chance when the person is still somewhat invested in the marriage.


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## Casual Observer

*A He said, she said forum?*

Wondering if there should be a separate forum in which both parties involved can participate? For the most part there's an assumption on TAM that we're only going to see things from one side. The nature of the conversation changes dramatically when both parties are here.

Look at it this way. With just one party here, we can be pretty sure of something but there's still that chance the OP is full of it and taking us for a ride. All advice given retains at least a tiny grain of salt. With the exception of our Unicorn Princess, @20yr. 

But when both parties participate in a thread, it's much more important, I think, that we be very careful about taking sides and making judgments, unless there are facts that both parties agree to being correct. Perhaps we need to do a better job of listening than responding.

It would also spare us the embarrassment of responding initially to just one side of something and then discovering wow, wait a sec, new information and boy was I wrong!!! Which sort of happened to me in this thread.


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## 3Xnocharm

Thank you for the update!


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## *Deidre*

And this is why we never quite know the ''other side of the story.''  Thank you for updating us!


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## sokillme

This has to be the craziest thread on here. Well I guess, all's well that ends well.


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## aine

Good for you to the EX Mrs Hammond


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## In Absentia

wow, this is weird... but at least we get to hear the other side of the story! I always wondered what my wife would say of me if she opened a thread here... or maybe I should not be wondering! :laugh:


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## aquarius1

Thanks for the update
A poignant reminder that there is ALWAYS 2 sides to every story.


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## Tilted 1

IDK, if it changes much it comes down to was it a EA and because of the PA, if something happened 30 yrs ago and stay together unspoken forgiveness is at play here where really does it end maybe never but to stay for 30 more yrs then here from your wife those words. Nothing makes it right maybe just got what she always wanted in the end.

And then goes ahead and, does as much damage to the other as possible. Said was still contacting other women is still hearing one side of the story. 

This was doomed, regardless but as far as the f-bomb, I've have friends from the NY areas and l swear every third sound starts with f. 

There will always be winners and losers in divorce, and it's when the dust settles some think having the last word/laugh wins. 

Maybe? 

Being unloved takes its toll, from your spouse or any others one thinks have meaning in their life. And to ultimately hear that is crushing to say the least. 

But, when one experiences -- and has learned that intimacy in life leads to pain, so defensive mechanism is--don't trust, don't love. 

You can't give someone what you don't have and it will end the way it was always going to end.


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