# Should I be concerned??



## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Hello everyone I'm new to this so please bear with me. I've been struggling with a relationship that my wife has with one of my ex friends. Let me break it ALL down.
I became friends with a guy that I work with and we started to hangout outside of work. We shared a lot of the same interests but is quite a bit younger than me, but my wife and I were both friends with him. Over time our friendship started to fade when I started to realize he was a very selfish individual and would never "return the favor" so to speak. I would confide in my wife about my issues with him and she encouraged me to talk to him about it. So I did.... His response was basically "don't call me anymore". My wife didn't seem phased by his response at all and brushed it off and continued to be friends with him. Well, she maintained her friendship with him without making it common knowledge. His name would only come up if I were to ask about it. She knows I'm upset about the fact that she didn't stick up for me and right him off as he did me. I can't help but think there is something more. He bought her a birthday gift this year and she just recently bought him a gift for a recent achievement. Of course, I only know about her gift to him because I stumbled across it. We just celebrated our 8th anniversary. When we exchanged gifts she mentioned that my gift was over her usual budget. BUT, her gift to him was twice as much as my anniversary gift. 

Does all this rambling make sense to everyone? Am I just over reacting or am I upset for a good reason?


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## x598 (Nov 14, 2012)

Cdub40 said:


> Hello everyone I'm new to this so please bear with me. I've been struggling with a relationship that my wife has with one of my ex friends. Let me break it ALL down.
> I became friends with a guy that I work with and we started to hangout outside of work. We shared a lot of the same interests but is quite a bit younger than me, but my wife and I were both friends with him. Over time our friendship started to fade when I started to realize he was a very selfish individual and would never "return the favor" so to speak. I would confide in my wife about my issues with him and she encouraged me to talk to him about it. So I did.... His response was basically "don't call me anymore". My wife didn't seem phased by his response at all and brushed it off and continued to be friends with him. Well, she maintained her friendship with him without making it common knowledge. His name would only come up if I were to ask about it. She knows I'm upset about the fact that she didn't stick up for me and right him off as he did me. I can't help but think there is something more. He bought her a birthday gift this year and she just recently bought him a gift for a recent achievement. Of course, I only know about her gift to him because I stumbled across it. We just celebrated our 8th anniversary. When we exchanged gifts she mentioned that my gift was over her usual budget. BUT, her gift to him was twice as much as my anniversary gift.
> 
> Does all this rambling make sense to everyone? Am I just over reacting or am I upset for a good reason?


she is WAY out of line.....and yeah, there could be something more going on. time to go 007. look in the infidelity section on how to catch a cheater. hopefully you caught this early.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

How old are you and your wife? How old is this guy?


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Any unexplained time away or behavior changes?
Get your poo in order before escalating this.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

So he does "return the favor" so to speak. Not to you anyway but to your wife.

The fact that she maintained the friendship after he ended the friendship is wrong. In fact she set you up to discuss your problems with him. Then he tells you to go pound sand. Now the two of them are left with their friendship. Interesting how that worked out. Now she's buying gifts for him much more expensive than the gifts that she buys for you.

What are your ages? How long have you been married? What is the guys age? Do you guys have any kids? What does your wife look like? Does she work? How often are the two of you intimate?

If I had to make a call just based on your one post, I would say she's banging him. Don't talk to her about this come here for more advice.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Thanks for asking me to be more specific. I express myself way better talking than typing.
I'm 40 years old and my wife is 36; he is 27. We've been together for 13 years and married for 8 of them. We have two boys ages 7 & 5. She is for the most part a stay at home mom but has a cleaning business on the side to earn extra money. Well, it's more of a job now because she has 15 clients with him being one of them. I expressed my concern about her cleaning his house, staying friends, etc but I don't seem to be getting through to her. Everytime I bring it up she gets upset with me. I also am the dad/husband that works out of town.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

More red flags.

I'd find it creepy if I paid a friend (opposite sex or otherwise) to clean my place.

I wonder how much housecleaning actually takes place.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## seeking sanity (Oct 20, 2009)

I'd be worried. Things can escalate quickly to an affair and there are a lot of red flags. I'd start by checking her phone, facebook account and email.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

This is gonna' be a good one.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Ya it explains a lot...your old lady has a crush on a alpha male!!!

It goes down one of two ways...your old lady respect the protection you offer in protecting the marriage and joins you in no longer contacts this POS.

or

She lables you as controlling so she can continue to get her panties wet over the phuck up who chases married chicks.

My advise is inform your old lady that you will not control her and she has a choice to except the protection you have to offer in keeping this marriage healthy or end this marriage so she can do as she pleases with who ever she pleases.

It's her choice...at the end of the day it will not end well and ending the marriage will be under very different terms then ending it now.

Sorry bro but the one thing you do have control over is getting hurt now or getting hurt latter.....I suggest getting hurt now before you raise some other mans kid!!!!

BTW when you put it like this she will want to save the marriage, but hide her emotional affair by going "underground" then it's even more of a thrill for them.

It's called cake eating....so watch out this kind of shyt is addicting...she will tell you one thing and then do another thing.

Educate your self about affairs...read the books mentioned on this forum.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Read through this thread. Have you done any diligence? Phone calls, texts, facebook, emails? What kind of phone does she use?

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Dude your old lady needs to drop that client ...like now,,,today you tell her that she has a choice to save this family and she needs to make it NOW!

At the end of the day business is business...you old lady just crossed the line by stay friends with a client.

Does this @ss wipe even pay her for her cleaning? What if this guy can't pay his bill this month? 

# 1 your old lady is miking business with friendship....BAD business on her part

#2 she is wet for this phuck stick and is now going over to his house.


What kind of wife hangs out with a guy her husband has unfriended?

You are seroiusly screwed if you don't let her know her current choices will destroy this family!

And have the ball to back it up by asking her to leave the home and will not tolerate her lack of respect for her husband.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

If the show were on the other foot how do you think your old lady would handle this?

I'll tell you what...your old lady won't like you getting in the way of her cake eating but she will respect you for standing up to this bull crap she is pulling on you.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Chick dig confident guys...letting her go just might save the marriage.

I bet showing up at her boyfriends with a couple of kids and all her crap just might make her boyfriend think twice in what he is in for.

Let her go and help her back, once the bofriend sees you are no longer her problme , but she is now his problem...you just might see your old lady crawling back to you.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Woman here. If I'm the betting kind, your wife is having an affair. A 27 year old can afford a cleaning woman? I bet my cat, she does more than clean for him...


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I know this sound way over the top, but i have been here long enough to know how this turns out once you start digging and investigating whats really going.

I bet the books show she only has 14 clients when you do the math.

I bet her cell has one number that sticks out more then any other number.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

As far as sex goes they (cheaters) do one of two things....they screw your brains out so you won't notice them phucking around behind your back or no sex what so ever, with excuse after excuse so they don't cheat on their new affair partner by having sex with ....their "own spouse"!!!!!

Were do you fall in to these two senerios?


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

MachoMcCoy said:


> This is gonna' be a good one.


Actually it's going to suck...it's going to end just like every other thread that has a spouse spending more time with someone other then their spouse whom works out of town.

Facing the painful truth is the hardest thing to get past, then confronting and making life changing dicisions.

C40 if you do have the stomach to spy on your wife and confront her we here at TAM can help you do both.


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

What is TAM?


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

TAM is Talk About Marriage. You're in the website.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Whatever you do. Do NOT ask her about cheating!
Im the original author of the standard evidence post. It contains the wisdom of dozens who came here before you, not just my info.

Again. Behavioral changes?
Dressing better.
Guards phone. Secretive.
Unexplained time.

Do low level stuff first.

You have a possible predator. Not enough info atm tho.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Oh, and clear your browser history.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Just so you know ...weightlifter is our surveillance guy.

Gus is in our IT guy.:smthumbup:

Seriously....we don't phuck around here

Me...I'm just "the guy" ...swears a lot and prevents poor guys from apologizing *to* their cheating wives sleeping with OM(other men).


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

weightlifter said:


> Whatever you do. Do NOT ask her about cheating!
> Im the original author of the standard evidence post. It contains the wisdom of dozens who came here before you, not just my info.
> 
> Again. Behavioral changes?
> ...


The POS is a predator!!!!

Case in point;
Befriends marriage.
Manipulates husband.
Unfriends husband.
Stays friends with wife.
Excepts friendship with wife.
Excepts gift from wife.


This phucker is making all the right moves and the wife is falling right into place.

Trust me.. my old lady had no problem finding guys that phuck married chicks.
This POS digs this shyt ..but when it becomes his problem this POS will drop you old lady like a hot potateo. Especialy when it comes along with kids.


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Maybe I should get a little more detailed into the back story. We haven't been getting along the greatest for the last while on a different issue. Back in February she told me that she wanted to try seperating to see if our relationship is worth saving. She told me this over the phone while I was at work. It started out that we were seperating, then through conversations it turned out into I was going to stay in the basement. She said she needed space to think about our marriage. Funny enough (like mentioned in the Standard Evidence post) she said "I love you with all my heart but I'm not sure if I'm still in love with you". I gave her the space she requested and kept my distance in the basement. Only for the very next day she was leaving to go out and said to me, "We can at least give eachother a hug". It lead me to believe that she was confused as to what she wanted. I only spent two nights in the basement before I was able to sleep in our own bed again and about 6 days of being home that we had sex. On my end I changed over night like a huge light bulb went off in my head and my approach to our marriage IMMEDIATELY changed. All the things she didn't appreciate I stopped. For three months we didn't argue and it looked like we were getting our marriage back on track. 

This guy she is still friends with bothered me but I accepted it. All up to the part where I found out she was buying him a gift for his achievement. I asked her about it and she said that my fallout with him doesn't have anything to do with her and she shouldn't have to lose a friend over it.............


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

I think I'd get a hold of her cleaning schedule and pay this man's home a visit the next time she's there "cleaning."


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

What were the supposed "issues" you were having? 

Are they legitimate problems or are they grievances she plucked from thin air?

You moved into the basement because she wanted to date this other guy. Problems in marriage is a retroactive excuse she can use if/when she is caught.

"I told you to stop leaving your dirty laundry on the bathroom floor. You kept doing it so I fell in love with Bobby. So it's all YOUR fault!"
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

If the standard evidence process is followed properly, we're gonna need big bags of popcorn for this!

Cdub40, sorry you're in this mess, but dude your wife is 'cleaning' the sh1t out of that *friend's* sperm bag.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Your wife has no business being friends with a guy that told you to p*ss off. And, she really has no business buying him a gift. AND spending more money on him than you? Hell no.

Get yourself a jewelry circular out of the paper & circle the diamond earrings. Ask her what size she thinks you should buy for your coworker/friend. Make sure they cost way more than what you paid for her gift. Be prepared for a rant.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

You now have enough to go full 007.
Im sorry. At this point your odds are grim.
Steel yourself.

Implement standard evidence post.
And ask her nothing. As far as she is concerned. You are okay.

Gus is our phone guy. Realy we should name him dr. Fone.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Cdub40 said:


> Maybe I should get a little more detailed into the back story. We haven't been getting along the greatest for the last while on a different issue. Back in February she told me that she wanted to try seperating to see if our relationship is worth saving. She told me this over the phone while I was at work. It started out that we were seperating, then through conversations it turned out into I was going to stay in the basement. She said she needed space to think about our marriage. Funny enough (like mentioned in the Standard Evidence post) she said "I love you with all my heart but I'm not sure if I'm still in love with you". I gave her the space she requested and kept my distance in the basement. Only for the very next day she was leaving to go out and said to me, "We can at least give eachother a hug". It lead me to believe that she was confused as to what she wanted. I only spent two nights in the basement before I was able to sleep in our own bed again and about 6 days of being home that we had sex. On my end I changed over night like a huge light bulb went off in my head and my approach to our marriage IMMEDIATELY changed. All the things she didn't appreciate I stopped. For three months we didn't argue and it looked like we were getting our marriage back on track.
> 
> This guy she is still friends with bothered me but I accepted it. All up to the part where I found out she was buying him a gift for his achievement. I asked her about it and she said that my fallout with him doesn't have anything to do with her and she shouldn't have to lose a friend over it.............


Here is what I just read....

" if your patient and don't mind sharing me I will be nice and think about using you as plan B if this guy doesn't work out"


Phuck that!

If it was me she would surely lose a husband over this.

Dude you just got played. The old "we are just friends" bull crap....been there done that and it doesn't work out well for us.

Again it is her choice to except the protection you have to offer by not tolerating the 'friendship" which is not marraige friendly to going on being friends with this guy while you move on to a women who appreciates the protection you have to offer in affair proofing the marriage.

Dude this is not going to end well...trust me.

HAVE YOU EVEN LOOKED INTO HOW FAR THE RABBIT HAS GONE DOWN THIS HOLE????????????

I bet they text every night before she goes to sleep and every day she wakes up.

Sir, you are seriously phucked!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm sorry C40 you are going through this.

But *we* know how it plays out if you don't act now.

Chick dig confident guys.....establish boundaries and the consequences for when those boundaries are crossed....the rest is up to her.

Dude you are losing your wife fast.....at the vert least prove me wrong and investigate how far this "friendship has gone"....

Please please please look into her phone log, get a GPS and plant a recorder in her car and house.....

Protect your self from being played...then you can come back and tell me how wrong I was!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

BTW she has fallen for this guy and it has been going on for 5 months.....look at the cell phone log....and prove me wrong!


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Get moving. Vars are incredibly fast at getting ahead of an affair.

Get phone records.

Since this may be an experienced predator who coaches her, look for a burner (second) phone.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

She sent you to the basement and wanted space so that she can be loyal having sex with this guy. Woman here, 57 years old. You have been gaslighted. Your wife is having a sexual affair. Wake up man!

She had sex with you to appease you. When a woman says "she loves you but not in love with you", she is saying that she has someone else. You are Plan B. As you work with this guy, your fellow employees will be feeling sorry for you behind your back if not already. Where is your dignity and pride?

When a woman buys a guy a gift, who is clearly not a friend of her husband, there is an emotional connection. She is deceitful. Don't be like many husbands here; simple doormats!


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

Yes, I agree with all the old-timers here. She is cheating on you. You MUST get hard evidence before confronting her, or it will just drive the affair underground. The VAR is your friend! (Although often people wish they didn't need friends like that...)


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Thanks everyone for your comments. A lot to think about.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Cdub40 said:


> Thanks everyone for your comments. A lot to think about.


Yes!!! Think....but don't react!!!! Do not confront yet. Do not act differently. Act normal. I know it's going to be hard after reading all these replies, but trust us on this. If she gets just a hint that your suspicious, she'll label you paranoid and controlling and will make you question yourself. If you find something, run it by us first before you confront. We can guide you with our collective experience, on how to proceed. Keep posting and good luck.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

One thing I want to know right now is what she bought him. Should I ask to see it or let it go?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Cdub40 said:


> One thing I want to know right now is what she bought him. Should I ask to see it or let it go?


Please don't ask. That will lead to nowhere fast. Do as you've been advised. If you must know, look for the reciept. And don't get caught snooping!!!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Cdub40 said:


> One thing I want to know right now is what she bought him. Should I ask to see it or let it go?


Let it go ...you are happy she is happy and let her have her rainbow and unicorns.

But..... little does she know you have a new friend...TAM!

Go dark and start gathering evidence. you need to have the proof that this is wrong so you can confront her.

If you want an affective confrontation you need to have proof that this friendship is more then a friendship.

My point is she will slip up if she is not so on guard, so please make her believe it's water under the bridge and start finding shyt out on your own.

Dud she never told you about the gift in the 1st place....what makes you think she is going to tell you what she really got him?

The stupider she thinks you are the sloppier she will get.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You should be asking questions about GPS's and VAR's....not about some shyt she bought her boyfriend!


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Let me rephrase. I know she bought him a gift and some personalized booze labels. I just don't know what they say. 

Do I still let it go?


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

weightlifter said:


> Im the original author of the standard evidence post.
> [...]Gus is our phone guy. Realy we should name him dr. Fone.


...and I'm the guy you call when you finally want her served with the divorce paperwork


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

it'sd so simple....go look at her odometer on her car before you leave fo work, then look at it when you come home, then ask her hwat she did to day.

Chances are she will have a ton of miles on her car and lie her @ss off about doing nothing!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Pretend to let it go!!!!!!!!!!

STOP BRINGING IT UP AND START SPYING ON HER.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Constable Odo said:


> ...and I'm the guy you call when you finally want her served with the divorce paperwork [/QUOTE
> 
> I'm the guy you call when you want them tied up and spanked


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Not that easy "the guy" I work out of town for 14 days straight and I fly to get there. 

So, don't ask her to see the labels?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Cdub40 said:


> Not that easy "the guy" I work out of town for 14 days straight and I fly to get there.
> 
> So, don't ask her to see the labels?


Is she waiting on you to leave(work) so she can give it to him?


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

I'm at work now. I was going to ask her to send me a picture of them. I don't get home from work until Thursday and she said she was giving them to him on Tuesday when she cleans his house.

Oh, Tuesday is our actual anniversary. FML.


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

Cdub40 said:


> I'm at work now. I was going to ask her to send me a picture of them. I don't get home from work until Thursday and she said she was giving them to him on Tuesday when she cleans his house.
> 
> Oh, Tuesday is our actual anniversary. FML.


Maybe I missed it....is this friend married? Girlfriend? Lives alone? At work on Tuesdays? Does he go to your house when your at work?


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## Tobyboy (Jun 13, 2013)

If you met this friend at work, then he must be gone 2 weeks at a time also....right?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

OP, sorry you're here. As far as shoring up your relationship and / or planning your exit strategy, I think you've gotten some good advice.

Since my first marriage collapsed due to opposite sex friends (OSF) / inappropriate relationships, I now have some strong views on them. So whether you stay with your wife or need to move on, some things to consider:

1. A couple should not be "equal" friends to the same person. When agendas, start to conflict, as itt did in your marriage, one member of the couple is going to be blindsided. My attitude now is that this person is either my friend or my husband's friend, but they can't be both,.

2. OSFs just don't work in my opinion. You are dependent on the other person observing decent boundaries and sometimes they don't. Same sex friendships can also be a problem to the marriage for the same reasons that OSFs can. But OSFs can be a problem to the marriage for even more reasons. 

I think that until someone gets burnt by an OSF, they (and it's usually women) think it's really cool. And they think that they are 100% interchangeable with a same sex friendship. ie, you may think it's ok if your wife takes a girlie weekend. She may also think it's if she goes away for the weekend with her male friend.

And it's usually 20 somethings, like this guy you're dealing with who will not see --whether you can logically explain or not -- that OSFs are not and cannot be the same.

3. I would not be friends with someone who is rude to my husband. And I did have this problem with my ex husband.

4. The few men that I consider friends are arms length. In fact, I have not seen but one in a long time and I hadn't seen him for years. He came to a family Christmas party. So no male "best friends." No one on ones. and no communication that goes unreported.

for the uninitiated, it may sound suffocating. But it works and it's reassuring. Both you and your partner should want to avoid situations in which one outsider can drive a wedge between you. I know it's water under the bridge, but you should never have allowed your wife and this guy to feel as if they are direct friends.

You now know for the next time. and I hope you get the best out of this situation.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Messed up. If she hasn't had sex with him yet, she will. EA at the least. PA/EA is my guess and probably going on for a year or better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Cdub40 said:


> I'm at work now. I was going to ask her to send me a picture of them. I don't get home from work until Thursday and she said she was giving them to him on Tuesday when she cleans his house.
> 
> Oh, Tuesday is our actual anniversary. FML.


Nice, giving it to him on Tuesday on your anniversary; not waiting for you to get home. She should be giving you a gift instead of giving him one on your anniversary. Her actions says a lot.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

If it hasn't been said... And I hope stuff is sinking in but I'm not confident it is.

You don't bring anything up about the guy, about your relationship, NOTHING. You whistle and smile, play happy husband.

Because if she even gets the hint that you suspect something is up with her she is that going to be 100 times more careful than she is right now making it next to impossible for you to find anything. That's why you keep quiet don't mention anything. You come here for advice.if she even gets the hint that you suspect something is up with her she is that going to be 100 times more careful than she is right now making it next to impossible for you to find anything. That's why you keep quiet don't mention anything
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

Cdub40 said:


> Not that easy "the guy" I work out of town for 14 days straight and I fly to get there.
> 
> So, don't ask her to see the labels?


It wasn't easy for me or conan or wl or gus or any of us....this shyt is painful, but you have to start some were.

You start some were and you start doing the investigation and find out the facts of what is really going on with your marriage.

For most of us it's just a matter of opening your eyes and looking....looking at the cell phone, the credit cards the odometer..

In this case I would go as far a VAR, GPS and pen cams.


Trust your gut!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

You already confronted her and she told you were she stands and I'm sure you have told her were you stand...if not then do so.

After that just leave it alone and gather your evidence that will validate your next course of action.


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

Cdub40 said:


> One thing I want to know right now is what she bought him. Should I ask to see it or let it go?


 If she bought him a gift with a credit card then you can get some of the information on your statement. 

Hey friend. Just a piece of advice. If she pulls this "Need space" crap on you, then point to the door, tell her to pack up and she can have all the space she wants just as long as it's not in the same house. 

And for good measure, let her know in a way she understands fully that once she walks out of the house to keep going, don't turn around because there will be nothing for her to come home to. Wish her the best and inform her that your attorney will be in touch with her, close the door and let her handle HER PROBLEM.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Cdub40 said:


> Let me rephrase. I know she bought him a gift and some personalized booze labels. I just don't know what they say.
> 
> Do I still let it go?


Did she purchase the labels or make them herself? 

If she bought them, do you know where she got them? If you do, you can see what kinds of labels they have.

If she made them, you can search the documents folder on the computer. If she used a specific app to make the labels, open up the app and then look in the recent documents list.

But I think this is an unproductive quest to find out. Don't ask her, she'll definitely lie. If the labels really were innocent wording, you'll still wonder if there isn't some hidden meaning. If they were flirty or worse, you'll have nothing with which to confront her, and not enough to convince yourself to divorce her.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Do you have kids?

I would keylog her computer. Be careful and do it right. Have it send to a secret email she doesn't know about.

Also, VAR in your bedroom. You could also get one of those spytech cameras for the bedroom. They look like a clock radio (and do work as such), smoke detector, etc. They will either work on motion detection or take a still picture ever few seconds.

GPS her car.

Be very very careful to not be detected doing this. Expect her to be suspicious of you. If she is in an affair, she may look for a VAR in her car, or run a scan of her computer for a keylogger. So do your research ahead of time and make sure the install is clean.

I wouldn't VAR her car before doing the other things. Since she goes to his house, and you aren't home for 2 weeks at a time, there is little need for her to have secret phone conversations in her car. If the money isn't an issue, sure you can VAR her car. But be super careful to mount it so it cannot come loose under any circumstances. Hide it so she can't see it if she is cleaning out her car or making a basic search of her car looking for a VAR.

Buy all this stuff with cash or one of those prepaid cards you can buy with cash at a 7-11 or grocery store. Don't leave any trail for her to detect.

When you get home, search her car very carefully. Every cubby, even the spare tire and jack compartments, under the seats, glove box, etc. You're looking for a second cell phone, condoms, receipts, cigarette butts (if she isn't a smoker), food/drink containers which don't make sense.

Review the cell phone bill, credit card statements, bank statements for anything odd.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

What difference does it make about the saying on the labels? You have bigger fish to fry. Don't go to the basement - let her go. Reclaim your bedroom and stay there. Have you consulted with an attorney?


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Why does it matter what the labels look like? What ARE personalized booze labels, anyway? Does he make and bottle his own booze? Why else would you need something like that?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Cdub40 said:


> One thing I want to know right now is what she bought him. Should I ask to see it or let it go?


It's odd, the things that make me think it's a troll post.

Are you friggin' kidding me? She should have been in the basement with a bright light in her eyes (sorry, I like the old movies) as soon as you heard she bought him something, expensive or not.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Cdub40 said:


> Let me rephrase. I know she bought him a gift and some personalized booze labels. I just don't know what they say.
> 
> Do I still let it go?


Same Answer.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Cdub40 said:


> On my end I changed over night like a huge light bulb went off in my head and my approach to our marriage IMMEDIATELY changed. All the things she didn't appreciate I stopped.


So sad, that in this day and age, with all of the communication we have, men STILL don't realize that by the time they understand what's going on, it's too late. Of all of the things that crushed me when I realized my wife had walked, the worst, by far, was the fact that no matter what I did to try to change it, it was already over.

Someone PLEASE start educating men on this. If for no other reason, so they don't suffer through three (or more) hellish months trying to reclaim something that is gone for good.

So sad.


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

MachoMcCoy said:


> So sad, that in this day and age, with all of the communication we have, men STILL don't realize that by the time they understand what's going on, it's too late. Of all of the things that crushed me when I realized my wife had walked, the worst, by far, was the fact that no matter what I did to try to change it, it was already over.
> 
> Someone PLEASE start educating men on this. If for no other reason, so they don't suffer through three (or more) hellish months trying to reclaim something that is gone for good.
> 
> So sad.


Quite the contrary.

It's usually NOT over at all, but rather a sick game of "win me back" which ends up pushing the left-behind spouse completely over the edge and destroying the marriage.

Often the left-behind spouses manage to find an inner-strength that they never thought possible, and improve their self-confidence to the point of outranking their walkaway spouse in the attraction market. Reclaiming the old marriage becomes an unappealing prospect compared to what lies ahead. They get 'enlightened'.

The walkaway spouse is almost always on the losing end except in cases involving serious abuse.


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## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> So sad, that in this day and age, with all of the communication we have, men STILL don't realize that by the time they understand what's going on, it's too late. Of all of the things that crushed me when I realized my wife had walked, the worst, by far, was the fact that no matter what I did to try to change it, it was already over.
> 
> Someone PLEASE start educating men on this. If for no other reason, so they don't suffer through three (or more) hellish months trying to reclaim something that is gone for good.
> 
> So sad.


Your story is, unfortunately, very common. I seriously don't know what type of educational material would be useful as some men claim the message is never delivered the 'right' way. Poor communication skills on the part of the person expressing their unhappiness/displeasure/what-have-you. 

Perhaps a universal phrase could be adopted that would, in essence, say 'this is your last chance, mofo' and one that would be recognized by all as the time to fix the problems.


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

Disagree thor. Respectfully of course.
Women talk in their cars.

Car var #1.
Cheap easy and insanely effective.


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## nuclearnightmare (May 15, 2013)

BOARD

Him being gone for 2 weeks at a time....wouldn't a PI get him the best results..if he can afford it.

OP
The good news is I think youre not losing much if she leaves you. she sounds like a real manilulater. there are better women out there for you. I wouldn't waste much time starting your search. fight for her, not!


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

nuclearnightmare said:


> BOARD
> 
> Him being gone for 2 weeks at a time....wouldn't a PI get him the best results..if he can afford it.
> 
> ...


Help your STBX to find more clients. That way, you can pay less severance.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

So let me get this straight:


You fly away for a couple of weeks each time for work leaving your wife alone at home to do as she pleases.


She has given you the ILYBNILWY speech and wanted to separate at one time.


She remained friends withe the young alpha stud even when he dumped you as a friend and continues to maintain this friendship privately.


She "cleans" his house.


She tells you that the presents she bought you were expensive but she buys him even more expensive presents without consulting you.

And you ask if you should be concerned!!!!

Tell her (don't ask) to stop all contact with the [email protected]!
Tell her no more buying presents for others without consulting you.
Tell her no more cleaning his house.
And then (secretly) put her under Weightlifter surveillance as this might not be her first time, especially since she has given you the ILYBNILWY speech in the past.

In short, man up!


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

weightlifter said:


> Disagree thor. Respectfully of course.
> Women talk in their cars.
> 
> Car var #1.
> Cheap easy and insanely effective.


I don't disagree with the value of a VAR in the car. In this case with OP away for 2 weeks at a time, I think there is a much higher likelihood than usual she is engaged in shenanigans at home. Either lying on the bed talking with him (or having sex skype sessions), or having sex in OP's bed. We're dealing with a woman who can act single for 2 weeks at a time. Car VAR wouldn't hurt, but other surveillance may be more productive than usual in this situation.


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## saubryn (May 12, 2015)

I'm of the opinion that opposite sex friendships can work - but only if there's transparency, and only if the OSF doesn't take priority over the real relationship.

Her hiding the friendship from you isn't good. Her giving him more expensive gifts than she gives you isn't good (I recently started a thread about expensive gift giving - I personally have no problem with it if there's a reason for the gift and it's affordable for the giver, but I would never give my husband a cheap gift and a male friend an expensive one). A close male friendship while your own relationship is rocky is worrying to me too.

I agree with what other people are saying, I'd be vigilant.


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

It would be nice if the OP would come back and post. 

The part I am having a hard time understanding is why he is worried about booze labels when 9 times out of 10 his wife is fvcking the pool boy? 

So many red flags, so little time.


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

I'm still here and reading all of your posts. I'm having troubles replying to everyone while I'm at work. I work 12hr days and travel 1hr either way. Not much time to do anything. I'm thinking about my next move but not 100% sure what that is or how to implement it.


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## tech-novelist (May 15, 2014)

MachoMcCoy said:


> So sad, that in this day and age, with all of the communication we have, men STILL don't realize that by the time they understand what's going on, it's too late. Of all of the things that crushed me when I realized my wife had walked, the worst, by far, was the fact that no matter what I did to try to change it, it was already over.
> 
> Someone PLEASE start educating men on this. If for no other reason, so they don't suffer through three (or more) hellish months trying to reclaim something that is gone for good.
> 
> So sad.


This is part of what the much-maligned red pill is for: explaining the "tells" that a woman is detaching from a man.


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

Muse1976;

I was concerned with what the label said because I wanted to know if it said "Love, Her" instead of From, Cheers, etc.

They are customized labels you can buy for bottles of rum, vodka or whatever. You can put whatever you want on them. Was trying to get her to show me because it would have been quicker to find out whats going on before I needed to activate 007 protocol.


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

You should read Weightlifter's surveillance and discovery thread/post and put some of that into action - VARs in her car and in the house, key logger on computer, accessing messages and email etc

You will soon have the info you need. When you do, secure the evidence and do not confront - come straight back here for what to do next.


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## SongoftheSouth (Apr 22, 2014)

"Ouch" that's what I suspect you will feel when you find out the truth. But the that's what this scumbag should say after you introduce his face to your fist. Worst case scenario of course, hope that it is just a big misunderstanding. All the best.


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## Muse1976 (Apr 25, 2015)

Cdub40 said:


> Muse1976;
> 
> I was concerned with what the label said because I wanted to know if it said "Love, Her" instead of From, Cheers, etc.
> 
> They are customized labels you can buy for bottles of rum, vodka or whatever. You can put whatever you want on them. Was trying to get her to show me because it would have been quicker to find out whats going on before I needed to activate 007 protocol.


I can understand all that. I can even empathize with it. With all the red flags she is throwing your way, I wouldn't count on a whole lot of honesty though. 

I mean she kept their friendship a secret basically, while he sh1t on you. That's one of the bigger red flags I have seen. 

I think you need to implement the standard evidence procedure. @weightlifter is the man to talk to. Let the experts over in the coping with infidelity forum guide you through this. They know what they are doing. H3ll, they have been through it themselves. I wish I had them around in my first marriage. 

Better safe than sorry. Good luck and worst case scenario hire a pi.

Oh and keep posting as you can. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

This will take me some time as I don't know any of her passwords for anything like email, facebook, computer, bank accounts, etc.

Again, I appreciate all the input thus far and will definitely keep posting when I can. This has been very hard to stomach and every time I look into my sons (age 6 & 4) eyes I remember back when my parents divorced when I was 4. Unfortunately I know all too well what they are about to go through. Suck and brings tears to my eyes even as I type this reply. 

Stay safe everyone!

Cdub40


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

This is an active thread in Coping With Infidelity that discusses the use of keyloggers. May be worth checking out.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping...yone-used-keylogger-without-being-caught.html
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Cdub40 (May 24, 2015)

I'm very familiar with key loggers but will have to gain access to the computer before I could install it. That, will take time to get as I will basically have to try watching her type it in or try to guess it.


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## PhillyGuy13 (Nov 29, 2013)

Hang in there my friend!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

Set up a nanny-cam overlooking her keyboard to catch her computer password etc. They make cameras built into all kinds of normal functional items such as clock radio, smoke detector, pen, stuffed animals, etc.


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