# I'm the most effing stupid person in the world -- WTF am I doing?



## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Alright, I'm not sure 100% where to get started... 

I'll start by saying I'm probably "relationship immature" and I have a tough time understanding my feelings, as I like to (do) anaylyze pretty much everything. 

This will bring most people up to speed on my backstory : http://talkaboutmarriage.com/861796-post65.html , although my perspective has changed a bit since then. 

So, where are we now… Two of the biggest challenges that we are facing are : Wildly varying love languages and problems in communication, and her parents. 

For those of you who won’t read the link above, I am now 29, she’s 25. We married 6 years ago, and have been together for perhaps 7.5 years. Neither of us have had much LTR experience, if any at all. Cultural influences (my and her religious upbringing) heavily influenced our decision to get married, and we did so at such a young age. She was also from a foreign country at school here on a education visa, so the pressure to get married to keep her here was also a big influence. She is an only child, I am the youngest of 5. 
Things seemed to go pretty well for the first 3 or 4 years, but starting around 2 years ago, I was starting to sense a disconnect in our relationship. I felt like I was giving more to the relationship and I wasn’t getting much in return. I felt like in order to be happy in this relationship then she should be giving as much as me, maybe not equal amounts, but enough to make me feel like I wasn’t the only one bending over backwards. Yes, I’m a self diagnosed “nice guy” and instead of really talking to her about this, I just complained. And, this continued to fester over the last few years. We started arguing more and more, over petty and major things… and I started to get the sense that she was taking me for granted. I’ve done so much for her, why can’t she realize and do the same for me, right? She started to build more friendships at work and started getting more involved in hanging out with them.. totally fine, except that I felt like she was wanting something else other than our relationship. She got more involved in partying, hanging out with her “single” friends, and while she invited me to go, I declined due to my stressful job and my interest in relaxing (I am a homebody at heart, don’t like huge groups, especially people I don’t know). I also declined a lot of these times because I felt like she was choosing them over me. 

I’d dedicate a lot of time to making sure she got her needs met, and then mine went unaddressed. She never took the time to do the things that I needed to get from her so I know that she loved me. It because a consistent issue with me, her deprioritization of me and my needs. She came first. Always. She came first in my mind, and she came first in hers… this is where I felt the biggest disconnect. She was both of our priorities – and who was there to take care of me? So, lots of little fights, resentment, and an overall sense of questioning why/if she loved me. All the while, she thought things were going well. I chalked this up to her being an only child, her mom giving her whatever she wanting, and a overall sense of entitlement and selfishness.

We recently took the surveys for the love languages, and we are complete opposites. I’m a 10 for quality time, she’s a 4. She marked the highest in acts of service, and I was a 3 Understanding this has now helped me see that she may love me, but just doesn’t know or want or can show me in the way I receive love. Either way, I can see how she does some things “for me” but in her love language. So, this brings some light to all the above instances, but I still feel like I care a lot more for her than she does for me. 

So, enter the parents… As we have grown and matured, I’ve become pretty successful in my career, and she’s done well as well. We have a good life, materially, and shes’ been concerned about her aging parents. Their standard of living, the distance between them (Bulgaria and the US), their health, etc… Rightfully so, as her mom is now 68 and dad is 72. She has an overwhelming sense of responsibility to her parents and to their well being – she was interested in bringing them here, in hopes to get her mom a job, they could find a place to stay, and move their life here. Only problem is that with her age, language barrier (no fluent English), and pending health issues of her dad, this isn’t something that was going to work. I tried reasoning with her only to have her reject my reasoning, so we brought them here anyway. My line of thought was that she wouldn’t understand until they come and fail. Not that I want them to, but have you guys seen the unemployment rate out there?? 
So, they have been living with us, and she’s tried so hard to find her mom a job. One thing that we can’t come together on, is what we do to help her parents. What do we do with the 3 apartments in BG and how will we raise our kids. She wants to go back and live there for a period of time, which I have no interest in. If we live here, she’ll want to renovate the places in BG and rent them out. I’m not sure how well that will work, since we live thousands of miles away. How do we just pick up and move when we have kids to live in an entirely different county? I have agreed to a lot of vacations there, but it seems like this isn’t enough. I never had any interest in living in another country, I like America. The best damn country in the world, why would you want to live anywhere else? 

Anyway, an underlying theme here, is that she tries really hard to achieve results in whatever she puts her mind to. She’s worked really hard in her school work, determined to get all A’s. She’s picked up Spanish , and is determined to become fluent. She brought her mom here, and was determined to get her a job. When it comes to me, and my part of the relationship, and some of the things I would like to see changed, she doesn’t try at all. It’s not even in her mind. So I complain about it. (I know, I know, not the right way to do it, but I am relationship immature, remember). How come you don’t work so hard on our relationship? The other day, I got the response “I already got you”. I’m not sure she meant it just like that, but yeah… That got me really irritated. So, because I’m here, and you already “got me” you don’t have to work at this, to make me happy? 

Here’s where I’m messed up – I few times in the past we’ve talked about splitting up. We are just too different, our goals, dreams, etc… we are wrong for each other, and even our love languages are off. Just plain incompatible if you ask me. So, we’ve gone to marriage counseling twice now, and both times it served as a way to seemingly exacerbate the issue. We argued after sessions, and the first time I came away with the desire to split up… but I said we would work on this and I’d be patient. She gave me a few things to work on that would help our relationship, and I gave her a few… these were areas where we could both improve in showing more love in a way that we each need it. I took to heart what she said, and I did them. Well. Her on the other hand forgot at different times what they were, and ultimately she only was able to work on 1 of the three things within a month before our next counseling session. 
After the last one (new guy, we didn’t like the last one) he keyed in on the Bulgaria/parents/property issue as the end all be all for our problems. Not that fixing this would solve the others, but not solving this one would keep us from being able to solve the other ones – probably because why would you work hard in a relationship when you know it won’t end up the way you want it/ dream it to be. That makes sense, and so we continued talking about it, trying to solve it… ultimately with the both of us determining that this problem we’d never be happy about. Either she’ll need to compromise too much, or I’ll need to compromise too much, but either way there wasn’t enough common ground to solve this issue. What I proposed was a solution where I was pretty much bending over backwards in an effort to make her happy, but it wasn’t enough. So, the conversation ended with a “we’re done”. My words. We’ve talked about it so much at this point, that it was really easy to say it and mean it. I started filing for paperwork, got a lawyer, and we agreed on an uncontested divorce. 

Divorce. Yipee. (sarcastic). Well, all this was pretty heated, and I wanted to detach myself emotionally from her… which was harder than I thought. This last week I was pretty much a big giant ****. She’s still in the place, and her parents, and I’m helping her/us through splitting up property and stuff. We closed our joint account, got separate cell phones, etc. and started talking about helping her get a place and a car. Monday through Friday I was sure this is what I wanted. She didn’t contest it really, except for some crying here or there, but nothing like “ please baby, let’s make this work…”. 

Subconsciously, this I think is what I was hoping to happen, and it didn’t. She pulled a perfect 180 on me, and it finally kicked in on Saturday. She went to a friend’s pool party, and I was all alone. To me, it was like she was already gone. Just for that part of the day, from like 10:30 to 7:30 pm, I had a small taste of what it will be like to be alone and I hated every minute of it. I went and saw a movie, tried to keep myself busy, but it didn’t help. After she came home, we talked about some of our communication issues, and what’s caused some of this, but nothing that was going to change the course we were headed down. 

Sunday we cuddled a lot, we looked for some places for her to move into (together), and went to eat. Came back and cuddled more, and we started talking again. I started to get this pain in my stomach, like I wanted to throw up, because I knew what I was going to say was really going to mess with her emotions. I told her that I wasn’t 100% certain I wanted to throw in the towel just yet. We talked about this, and how much I depend on her for my happiness, and how I need to change that (manning up, right?). I told her that there is more that I think I can do to make things better in this relationship and want to see where this takes us. Obviously, this threw her for a whirl, as she had already put her mind in the mindset of moving on without me (really quick in my book, but given the circumstances, I understand). She wanted me to take some time, figure out my emotions and really come to a 100% conclusion on what we are going to do. Problem is, I’m not sure what I want to do. I’m a ****, I know.

Here’s my challenge (and something else I haven’t explained yet). I don’t have any friends. I have lost a couple in the last few years, due to moves and stuff, but haven’t done anything to generate new friendships. Why, when you are married and live with your best friend? Don’t need friends, you just need the one you love the most. But I do have 1 real friend, but we aren’t super close. 

So, I guess I’m wondering, how do I separate the feelings of loneliness and being alone from understanding whether or not I want to be with me wife or not. I guess the question is (at least to me right now) which would be worse : leaving her and being alone, for the chance to meet someone that would be better matched to me, or me giving in a bit more, working harder in my marriage and trying to make things work, but all with the possibility that it still wouldn’t work out in the future. 
I see a lot of people on here have SO’s that cheat, and I feel like if I was in that situation, then it would be easier. That would be a no brainer in my book. This on the other hand is coming to the conclusion that we aren’t the most compatible, but I still have a ton of feelings for her. Realizing that in life, we will never be happiest together, but maybe without each other it would be worse of the same. 

I’m so lost. I don’t understand my own feelings and wants. I want her, but also need a partner that is a bit more attentive towards me. Can she do that? Can I be more of what she needs? Who knows. I don’t want to string her along, and I already feel like the biggest ******* in the world for doing this to her, but I thought a divorce with her was a sure thing. And then almost immediately I did a 180 and said that was the worst effing decision to make. WTF am I thinking? 

Please guys, ladies, I need some help here. Really. Brutal honesty will help, so don’t sugar coat. I might get defensive… I’m told that I get that way at times. So please don’t be put off by that. But I really don’t want to make a wrong decision. I haven’t a clue what’s right and wrong right now. Help?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

I know it's long folks, but any insight would be extremely helpful right now


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## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

> how do I separate the feelings of loneliness and being alone from understanding whether or not I want to be with me wife or not.


Although separation is generally not recommended for couples who are having typical marital issues, I personally believe a separation in your case may help both of you realize how much you mean to each other.

Most separations end in divorce, but those that don't, generally end up strengthening the bond and clearing a lot of the confusion.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Thanks.. appreciate the input... anyone else?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

I have read that the strongest factor in marriages that stay together drawing the line that divorce is not a solution. When a couple feels that staying together is the only option they work harder to solve issues, to come up goals that they can both live with.

In some cases, short separations can help get perspective. In most it just leads to divorce.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ your totally right... and for whatever reason, that solution started to creep in my head. I always told her when we were dating and first got married that open and honest communication will allow us to keep things moving forward, and that we'll never get divorced... look at me know  

she's gotta be feeling so lost, so confused right now... i want to throw up it's making me so sick that i've done this to her. god i'm awful.


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## Jojara (Aug 1, 2012)

Honestly, I think it would be a good idea to be apart. That initial blast of being lonely is overwhelming and terrifying. As you come to grips with the lonely part, you will learn about yourself and whats important to you- and that might be your wife. You are going in circles right now. Respect her enough to be SURE that you want her before taking her(or yourself) on an emotional roller coaster.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> ^ your totally right... and for whatever reason, that solution started to creep in my head. I always told her when we were dating and first got married that open and honest communication will allow us to keep things moving forward, and that we'll never get divorced... look at me know
> 
> she's gotta be feeling so lost, so confused right now... i want to throw up it's making me so sick that i've done this to her. god i'm awful.


No, you'renot awful. You're confused. 

I tend to agree that separation might be good right now so that you can gain perspective and figure out what you both want. Maybe you can set a time line.....3 months?, 6 months?.....after which you will meet at the MC to talk with professional guidance about what you have learned during the separation.

good luck.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Frostflower said:


> No, you'renot awful. You're confused.


And totally codependent.

Rushing into a divorce would be foolhardy.

These issues are present in all your relationships.

You need to work on you.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

yeah, you guys are right. i'll tell you though, i had an epiphany the other day and it was startling... 

i've caused a lot of these problems in our marriage. i've projected my selfishness on to her, instead of owning up to the fact that i need to control everything. i'm cold and inflexible, and this has been the death of our relationship. 

she told me some really honest things last night, which is great since she always bottles stuff up, or at least shares on a superficial level... it wasn't easy to hear, but i know they are true. 

i've really hurt her in the past. i wish i could take it all back. is this all that life is... just wishing that you could take back your mistakes? 

so, i think what she wants to do is separate for a while, to determine what it is that she wants. she needs to have a little of independence in order to know what it's like to be without someone. she says 6 months or so, and then we'll revisit and see what we feel like. while i'm not 100% for that, I can't say anything against it. hell, just the other day i wanted to leave her for good. the mind, it's such a fickle thing. 

so she's not 100% certain that this is what she wants to do, but if it does end up in separation, i'm not sure what i would do, how to act. i mean, the 180 is designed to help me, right? a natural by product is that it helps your partner gain some respect for you again, which is great. but how do you do it, when she's doing a 180 to me? that just seems like we'll both veer so far from each other that we'll never make it back.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Have you read No More Mr. Nice Guy?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

yep, why? are you suggesting i'm still in recovery, or am now at this moment exhibiting nice guy behaviors?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> yep, why? are you suggesting i'm still in recovery, or am now at this moment exhibiting nice guy behaviors?


You are still a slave to codependency.

You are staking everything on what she does/thinks.

If you want to heal, remove your focus from her and take care of you.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> You are still a slave to codependency.
> 
> You are staking everything on what she does/thinks.
> 
> If you want to heal, remove your focus from her and take care of you.


yeah, i see that. it's tough because this is the way i've always been. it's also tough to make decisions on my marriage because at any given time i can vascilate back and forth... I just wish I could get a clear direction and move forward. She says she needs time to figure things out, which i get, but shouldn't be as simple as "yes i want to be with you but i'm scared" or "no i don't want to be with you " ... i mean, what is there to figure out?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

In other words, you want to fix it.

BTW - is the reason, "I've always been this way" a good reason for continuing on in a manner that doesn't get the results you seek?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> In other words, you want to fix it.
> 
> BTW - is the reason, "I've always been this way" a good reason for continuing on in a manner that doesn't get the results you seek?


of course i want to fix it... who wouldn't. but i get your point. so, should i just let things be, give her whatever she needs from me, but don't push the issue?... i feel like i'd be just in limbo forever, just waiting for her to make up her mind. what if that takes months... do i just float through our life together until that time comes? 

and no, i wasn't saying "i've always been this way" as an excuse to continue the behavior, but rather recognize that the change i need to make will be hard, but i've accepted this as a problem, which is the first step in correcting bad behavior.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> yeah, i see that. it's tough because this is the way i've always been. it's also tough to make decisions on my marriage because at any given time i can vascilate back and forth... I just wish I could get a clear direction and move forward. She says she needs time to figure things out, which i get, but shouldn't be as simple as "yes i want to be with you but i'm scared" or "no i don't want to be with you " ... i mean, what is there to figure out?


It's easier to answer this question.

What is there to figure out?

She's trying to figure out if she can trust you.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ yep, your right. 

tell me a bit more about codependency? i wonder, if when the actual realization of me being alone and losing her set in, if i wanted to fix this soo bad that I looked at myself, and said i'm causing this issues. 

i mean, i can change what i do, be less controlling etc, am i coming to that realization at this point because i want to fix this and still control it - defining me as codependent? or was there some legitimate self realization there that I need to be a better spouse? 

i've always had a hard time understanding myself, my zodiac alludes to that (virgo) inability to really understand my feelings... this is such a struggle for me, i wish i really knew what i wanted and how to move forward, but i don't. it's really quite depressing, and downright debilitating. i can't focus on anything except for this, even while i'm at work. 

thanks for your thoughts conrad, it's much appreciated.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman,

Have you ever seen the movie Blue Valentine?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

no i haven't...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> no i haven't...


It's available at Blockbuster.

You should watch it this evening.

It's about a nice guy that gets consumed in the relationship with his wife and loses himself in the process.

Watch her reaction to it.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's available at Blockbuster.
> 
> You should watch it this evening.
> 
> ...


her reaction, as in the movie, or my wifes if we watch it together?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> her reaction, as in the movie, or my wifes if we watch it together?


Her reaction in the movie.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

okay, i'll have to look it up

we have a counseling session today, so i'll get into that afterwards while she's doing homework - thanks for the tip..

any thoughts on my questions above?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

also, a lot of the info i've read in codependancy has to do with substance/gambling addictions - which neither of us have.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Do either of you smoke cigarettes?

How about drinking?


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## Emerald (Aug 2, 2012)

Read "Co-Dependent No More." I just read your intro post & agree with Conrad. 

You are so lost & unhappy right now & so co-dependent on your wife for your happiness no matter how badly you think she treats you. You bend over backwards to please her, throw $$$ at the situation (her parents, etc.) & then rush to divorce when she doesn't bend over backwards for you.

The way you describe her is like a selfish, self-centered princess. If that floats your boat, so be it. Maybe stop complaining about it & suck it up.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Do either of you smoke cigarettes?
> 
> How about drinking?


no smoking, casual drinking when out with friends or a long day (for me) ... but no addictions.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Conrad said:


> In other words, you want to fix it.
> 
> BTW - is the reason, "I've always been this way" a good reason for continuing on in a manner that doesn't get the results you seek?


Or as my vice principal says after listening to kids explain their actions when they're in trouble yet again, "So how's that working out for you?"


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

ok, so i can't read the book yet, but this is supposedly a good summary? i can pinpoint a lot of stuff on here, so i guess i'm now on my road to try to find out how not to be co-dependant. if they ever needed a poster child, i'm right here  

anyway, so what kinds of issues could this cause in my marriage? i guess at this point, i'm wondering if i have a selfish taker as a spouse, or if that's just my perspective because i'm co-dependent. i actually thoroughly confused on how to proceed at this point. 

Symptoms of Codependence


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> ok, so i can't read the book yet, but this is supposedly a good summary? i can pinpoint a lot of stuff on here, so i guess i'm now on my road to try to find out how not to be co-dependant. if they ever needed a poster child, i'm right here
> 
> anyway, so what kinds of issues could this cause in my marriage? i guess at this point, i'm wondering if i have a selfish taker as a spouse, or if that's just my perspective because i'm co-dependent. i actually thoroughly confused on how to proceed at this point.
> 
> Symptoms of Codependence


This link should help also:

An Overview of the Drama Triangle


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

OMG... I just read this one... everything in there... wow. honestly, i have no idea where to get started. any suggestions people. please, i really want to overcome this. 

CoDependency & Love Addiction


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> OMG... I just read this one... everything in there... wow. honestly, i have no idea where to get started. any suggestions people. please, i really want to overcome this.
> 
> CoDependency & Love Addiction


Call a counselor.

Start a journal - thinking of all the times you were pushed "past your breaking point" and what led up to it.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

any groups for this sort of thing?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> any groups for this sort of thing?


Welcome: CoDA Home Page


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> It's available at Blockbuster.
> 
> You should watch it this evening.
> 
> ...


i just finished it... and am still contemplating...

now that i've seen it, can you provide some supporting information to your statements? where exactly do you think he got lost? and what was it ultimately that drove her up a wall (not including is drunken fighting state at the end...) 

just curious what it was that you were referencing. 

thanks -- quite the depressing movie there.


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## 06Daddio08 (Jul 26, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i just finished it... and am still contemplating...
> 
> now that i've seen it, can you provide some supporting information to your statements? where exactly do you think he got lost? and what was it ultimately that drove her up a wall (not including is drunken fighting state at the end...)
> 
> ...


He settled for just being a father and lost all his ambitions in life.

Because of it, she lost respect for him.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ that's too bad. i mean i get it, but it's a shame that a woman would lose respect for the person that tries to be a great husband and father... he was a controlling ****, of course, but if that was done right, women would still lose respect for the man. 

the good thing to see in all this, is I am not nearly as bad as Ryan Gosling depicted it, but i do have lots to learn. 

my wife is probably going to move out, she needs time to evaluate if her "things" are more important than being with me. if she wants to be with me. and i just have to let that happen, no matter how hard it hurts. it's sad really, but i'll deal. i'm going to start going to a allanon group i think, and will start putting a bit more effort in my schooling,(1 class left) and perhaps start working towards getting into ASU for the MBA program. 

It's time for me to reclaim my life back... i just wonder what that looks like :/


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Here's the thing.

So many guys think if they work hard enough to let her stay home and focus on making her happy, they've got it made.

What they don't realize is that is exactly WHAT THEY WOULD WANT SOMEONE TO DO FOR THEM.

It's not what she wants.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ wow... that actually makes sense. huh... who da thunk it? 

what do they want? that's the question...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> ^ wow... That actually makes sense. Huh... Who da thunk it?
> 
> What do they want? That's the question...


*that depends.....*


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Here's the thing.
> 
> So many guys think if they work hard enough to let her stay home and focus on making her happy, they've got it made.
> 
> ...


I, on the other hand, stopped making him happy and he left. Seems like you can't win.

Matty, it sounds like you are heading in the right direction to fulfilling yourself. I wish you all the strength you need to follow through.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Frostflower said:


> I, on the other hand, stopped making him happy and he left. Seems like you can't win.
> 
> Matty, it sounds like you are heading in the right direction to fulfilling yourself. I wish you all the strength you need to follow through.


thanks Frost... i appreciate that. the hardest thing for me is to give up control.  that doesn't mean that i just sit by waiting idly for her to make up her mind, but rather allowing her to do so while i start to work on myself anyway... either her or someone else will appreciate it, so... can't go wrong there.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> *that depends.....*


well, i seem to recall a movie on that, so i think i'll pick that up tonight


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

No don't do it for someone else! Do it for you! If you don't appreciate what you do for yourself you will find another woman you spend your relationship trying to please. Get yourself together so you don't need validation from anyone else, then the relationship you build will be 2 sided.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

mule kick said:


> No don't do it for someone else! Do it for you! If you don't appreciate what you do for yourself you will find another woman you spend your relationship trying to please. Get yourself together so you don't need validation from anyone else, then the relationship you build will be 2 sided.


i'm most certainly doing it for me... i'm the only person i can change into a better human being...


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## WhatKatyShouldHaveDone (Jun 12, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i'm most certainly doing it for me... i'm the only person i can change into a better human being...


I totally understand everything you are saying! I just devoured your thread in two minutes flat!
I don't know whether I'm you or your wife in this situation, because like with you guys emotions are so back and forth... But that confusion, and constant over analysis of feelings. I'm also a Virgo! I just want to know how I feel so I can form a plan of action... Do I want my husband back, do I just want him to want me??!!

You sound very emotionally intelligent to me. I would happily give up a toe to have my husband express his needs, nevermind let me fulfill them. I think the effort you have put in to save your marriage is commendable and very romantic!! I apologise! What you are doing is what I have been daydreaming furiously about for 6 months ....my husband realising what a big fat mistake he has made... Truly taking respinsibility for his own happiness, whilst also desperately wanting me to be a part of that happiness.

However I don't think you have made a big fat mistake. 

All you wanted was for your wife to love you. How very dare you! You even made it reeeeeealy easy for her by giving her specific instructions. And she couldn't muster up the strength to even try. She could not, rather would not love you in the way a wife should love her husband. Or even anyone she remotely cares about! She effectively ended the marriage herself.

I think it won't take long for you to realise that those feelings of wanting her back is just the 'fear' talking. Don't listen to the bastard!!!!

Although....I am right there with you in the misery pits.... Reminiscing over all the mistakes I've made, telling myself how, of course, I'll NEVER meet anyone else, obsessing over him and his thoughts and his feelings. Generally feeling like a bag of poo, just wanting ONE chance..... I am truly pathetic, but this too shall pass.

I hope you continue with your thread!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

geez, what a roller coaster. 

we both keep going back and forth on whether we can work our stuff out together or if we need time -- one day it's this, the next day it's that.... and all along the way, my gut is wrenched, my thoughts all distracted from work, ... this is the most painful thing i've gone through. i love my wife. a lot. 

through all this back and forth, i think i realized that both of us were scared of actually making up our minds, putting ourselves out there to get hurt again. so eff it, i decided. I told myself that i'll put myself out there, and commit to her, to working through all of our stuff. 

i told her how i felt, and afterward, it was like a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulder. i felt happy again, like i could finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. this was at lunch yesterday. 

after work we decided to meet up for drinks and dinner, when she told me that she doesn't think this is going to work. she just doesn't have time for me amidst all the things that she has going on. she said that she wouldn't really be able to make any relationship changes with me, as she wouldn't have much time to focus on it. she said that when she is with me, she loves me, wants to stay with me, but when we are apart her mind tells her that we aren't able to work things out. 

so there i was, putting my heart out there. making the commitment to do what it takes to make things work. and she crushed it. i am so hurt. 

i told her then that was it, she needs to move out. no more going back and forth on this. it's like all of a sudden, i've put up a wall, and now i feel numb. i feel nothing. maybe even a little relief that i can get out on my own, and possibly find someone who can treat me better. i deserve better. why would i stick around with someone that has sooo much going on that she can't make a concerted effort to make things work? 

sorry for the rant, but this seems to be closing the book on this chapter on my life. in two quick seconds, i feel fear and sadness, nothing, a little tinge of guilt, and happiness, hope, etc.... all bottled up in one quick emotion. what a effing roller coaster.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> i'm most certainly doing it for me... i'm the only person i can change into a better human being...


Matty,

What happened to the guy who wrote this?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^still here. i'm still going to do that... 

i just can't be with someone that can't make time for me... i mean, really, would you?


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## mule kick (Apr 10, 2012)

It's like this whole time she has just been waiting for a sign you were vulnerable so she can hurt you


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> ^still here. i'm still going to do that...
> 
> i just can't be with someone that can't make time for me... i mean, really, would you?


When you plead and beg for the relationship - like the above - her subconscious mind assesses you as weak and unattractive.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Let me be clear.. there was no begging on my part
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> Let me be clear.. there was no begging on my part
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


How do you think she viewed/responded to this:

*through all this back and forth, i think i realized that both of us were scared of actually making up our minds, putting ourselves out there to get hurt again. so eff it, i decided. I told myself that i'll put myself out there, and commit to her, to working through all of our stuff. 

i told her how i felt, and afterward, it was like a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulder. i felt happy again, like i could finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. this was at lunch yesterday. *


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> How do you think she viewed/responded to this:
> 
> *through all this back and forth, i think i realized that both of us were scared of actually making up our minds, putting ourselves out there to get hurt again. so eff it, i decided. I told myself that i'll put myself out there, and commit to her, to working through all of our stuff.
> 
> i told her how i felt, and afterward, it was like a huge weight was lifted off of my shoulder. i felt happy again, like i could finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. this was at lunch yesterday. *


she did respond positively to it. i was assertive and made my choice. i'm not sure what you are getting at...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> she did respond positively to it. i was assertive and made my choice. i'm not sure what you are getting at...


By telling you she was leaving?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> By telling you she was leaving?


that was later at night after she thought more about it. i didn't beg her. i just told her what i was going to do, and i was going to be the person to make up their mind first. she was waiting on me, and i was waiting on her, thus the cyclical motions of "we should be together" "we should not be together"... both of us were having those thoughts ... not one or the other.

she agreed when i had talked with her that what i said was best. later she had more time to think about what it takes to be in a relationship and wasn't sure if she wanted to put forth the effort needed to get us back on track. 

adding more info, it was even later then that she said that she was wrong and she really did want to be with me. about 2:30 in the morning actually.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

You tried to fix it.

She interpreted that as weak and needy.

You need to "stop going first" and inviting her to reject you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> that was later at night after she thought more about it. i didn't beg her. i just told her what i was going to do, and i was going to be the person to make up their mind first. she was waiting on me, and i was waiting on her, thus the cyclical motions of "we should be together" "we should not be together"... both of us were having those thoughts ... not one or the other.
> 
> she agreed when i had talked with her that what i said was best. later she had more time to think about what it takes to be in a relationship and wasn't sure if she wanted to put forth the effort needed to get us back on track.
> 
> adding more info, it was even later then that she said that she was wrong and she really did want to be with me. about 2:30 in the morning actually.


So, what is your next step?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> So, what is your next step?


i told her i'm done and that i'm not doing this anymore. she needs to move out. that was the gist of it, to which she immediately told me that she was wrong, that she does love me, etc.... 

I'm not playing that game anymore. i need some time to myself. she needs time for herself, and if she wants me after a predetermined period of separation, then I'll see what I want to do. Otherwise, I'm moving on. Done.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> i told her i'm done and that i'm not doing this anymore. she needs to move out. that was the gist of it, to which she immediately told me that she was wrong, that she does love me, etc....
> 
> I'm not playing that game anymore. i need some time to myself. she needs time for herself, and if she wants me after a predetermined period of separation, then I'll see what I want to do. Otherwise, I'm moving on. Done.


Have you made a counseling appointment?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

we've already done counseling... our next session is on Saturday... I'm not sure if i want to/ need to go. 

i do want to start IC though...


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i told her i'm done and that i'm not doing this anymore. she needs to move out. that was the gist of it, to which she immediately told me that she was wrong, that she does love me, etc....
> 
> I'm not playing that game anymore. i need some time to myself. she needs time for herself, and if she wants me after a predetermined period of separation, then I'll see what I want to do. Otherwise, I'm moving on. Done.


Bravo dude. Now don't waffle on your words. Its way easier than you can imagine. I was exactly where you are now when I moved out 3 months ago. Wanna know how many times she tossed a crumb after that and I went into pursuit mode?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

spun said:


> Bravo dude. Now don't waffle on your words. Its way easier than you can imagine. I was exactly where you are now when I moved out 3 months ago. Wanna know how many times she tossed a crumb after that and I went into pursuit mode?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


how many? honestly, i think it'll be pretty tough on me... i still love her a lot, and we have a good life. it's sad that it's come to this, but i need to be respected and loved. it's as simple as that.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> how many? honestly, i think it'll be pretty tough on me... i still love her a lot, and we have a good life. it's sad that it's come to this, but i need to be respected and loved. it's as simple as that.


Probably happened weekly...it creeps in a sneaky kind of way.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

OMG--- When is this going to stop. 

So, she texted me today. Wanted me to go to lunch with her, but I already had taken my lunch break. She persisted, wanting me to just take a break then and come meet her as she had some items to talk to me about. 

I asked her why? She said that she had some personal stuff and wanted to talk to me face to face. 

I told her I wasn’t interested in playing games, and that I’m tired of all this back and forth. 
She said that she was too, and that she needed to talk to me. So I said fine, but I wasn’t sure what she was going to tell me that I haven’t heard already. I decided to go, just to hear her out. I’m not a total ass. 

She says that she doesn’t want to throw this away yet. She knows what I need but has been selfish and has been more focused on what she wants rather than being a good partner and wants a chance to prove it. She understands that this will take work, and doesn’t want it just to get back to where we were before, but that she knows it can be better. She couldn’t sleep last night at all, because she knew she was making a mistake. She doesn't want to live without me. Uh huh… God, why is this shtuff so hard…


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Tell her that you both are going to IC for 3 full months.

At that time, you'll discuss it - and not before.

She's to work on herself, as are you.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

so, live together in limbo for 90 days, go to IC, and then talk about it...

i would feel very insecure with a call like that.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> so, live together in limbo for 90 days, go to IC, and then talk about it...
> 
> i would feel very insecure with a call like that.


Are you the only two in the house? No kids?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

no kids... her parents live with us for the time being though... from out of the country.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> no kids... her parents live with us for the time being though... from out of the country.


Any chance of simply operating independently while there?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

it's possible sure, but i think it would be really hard for me to do. her too. 

i think i'll just tell her that we are going to split up, go our separate ways for a little while, and then we can revisit and decide what we want to do. 

this is what my mind tells me to do. 

my heart says i'll never be happy with anyone else, and it's soo hard to separate my feelings like that. i mean, she really isn't that great, so why the attachment. it's ridiculous really...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> it's possible sure, but i think it would be really hard for me to do. her too.
> 
> i think i'll just tell her that we are going to split up, go our separate ways for a little while, and then we can revisit and decide what we want to do.
> 
> ...


You can take this for what it's worth.

If you really do not despise her and all that's happened is you've been too "nice" and codependent, the BEST way to help yourself is to stick around and start setting boundaries with HER.

Calm - emotionless.... strong.

I'm not ok with this.

Watch her response from 50,000 feet.

See if she's serious.

You have no idea how she will actually respond to your masculine mettle. You've never shown it.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

hmmm, interesting thought. very thought provoking. 

and this is the crux of my indecision... who does she become when i change. 

(no, i'm not changing for her, but it's assumed that the relationship dynamic changes as I change...) 

what does that look like. i think this is what is keeping me here, because i don't want to throw away something that has potential... but it's nearly impossible to determine the outcome from the onset of these changes... what if nothing changes and i become even more unhappy... 

it's not just my co-dependence that's an issue...

sex (or lack of frequency and openness and comfort) is a really big issue for me, one in which i haven't seen much motion. (that changes when i become more attractive to her - in an individual that has a drive... i'm almost convinced that she has none.)

her continual need to always have 15 things going on at once without really slowing down and enjoying life... etc... 

i just wonder what changes when I change.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

YES - this is 100 percent accurate - in this situation going first is a huge mistake. 

The HOTTER partner cannot go first unless going first means communicating a very conditional message which is: I will work on me, and I also expect you to work on the things that are important to me. 

Just unilaterally saying: I am committed and will work to make this succeed, is a bad message. 

The marriage seems to have one primary issue: She doesn't treat you with respect, and hasn't for a long time. And you have been almost entirely focused on trying to get her to "love you" often at the expense of demanding respect. 

And for many men, this is their single biggest blind spot. They can love a female without having a high level of respect for her. Not all men are like this but many are. Very few women can love a man they don't respect. 




Conrad said:


> You tried to fix it.
> 
> She interpreted that as weak and needy.
> 
> You need to "stop going first" and inviting her to reject you.


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> hmmm, interesting thought. very thought provoking.
> 
> and this is the crux of my indecision... who does she become when i change.
> 
> ...


Her continual need to have 15 things going and never slowing down to enjoy life could be a symptom of ADHD. Yes, adults can have it. It ruined my girlfriend's marriage because after20 years, he just couln't do it anymore. My friend is now on meds which have helped her (along with understanding her condition), but it was too late for her marriage. Might be worth her talking to her doctor.

It might be best to leave sex out of it for the time you're working on things. or discuss it with the MC. Maybe it's something to work on during that time


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

MattyJ,

A man with solid boundaries comes across as confident and sexy to his woman.

Why allow this opportunity to go by the boards when all you've presented in the past was weak neediness - and the resulting lack of attraction?


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> MattyJ,
> 
> A man with solid boundaries comes across as confident and sexy to his woman.
> 
> ...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

By way of explanation:

It's clear you are somewhat ambivalent about ending it. You could see just starting over OR trying some more with her.

But, she seems clueless to you and wishy-washy. Not sure if she wants to hang in there. Not sure why she should.

Part of your ambivalence is the lack of sex.

Do you think she would be more sexual with you if she felt more secure? If she felt you were her emotional rock rather than a pleaser who simply tries to make her happy and reacts to her emotions, would she find you more attractive?

Men with solid boundaries and confidence are sexier than their pleaser counterparts. They get laid much more often. Their women feel secure enough with them to share their inner bad girls - without thinking they'll be judged for it.

Sound interesting?

Then start working on keeping your composure under fire. Start working on setting and enforcing reasonable boundaries with her. Let her respond to your newfound strength and masculinity.

Let us know what happens - but we already know what likely will happen if you lead the dance.





mattyjman said:


> Conrad said:
> 
> 
> > MattyJ,
> ...


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

By lead the dance you are referring to me making the decision? I just don't know what to do here?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> By lead the dance you are referring to me making the decision? I just don't know what to do here?
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Listen to one of my mentors. He says it much better than I:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/53610-male-leadership.html


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

thank you all for you help... 

Mem, I think you hit it on the head... she doesn't respect me at all. 

last night we were talking in bed about our relationship and what we were going to do... she was trying to sell me on why she still wants to work things out, and amidst our talks, she fell asleep. she fell asleep while talking about why we should be together. it's not like we were talking for hours either, maybe 15 minutes at the most. 

she apologized ("I'm sorry, but...) and then blamed me in the same sentence for her falling asleep- suggesting that we shouldn't be talking in bed. she quickly fell back asleep after this. She didn't apologize this morning, and didn't say anything about what happened last night. She didn't say anything at all actually... How can she be mad at me for this? 

Either way, I think this sealed the deal. Why am I with someone that doesn't respect me, and why do I allow her to continually disrespect me like that. I'm holding onto strings that aren't even there. I'm telling her to move her and her parents out today.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

My personal opinion is that emotions are way too high to make any sort of long-term decision.

But, it's your life.

A simple, "I'm not ok with being blamed for you falling asleep" should suffice.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Yeah I get that.... I said that... not word for word obviously, but I let her know it bothered me....

But the falling asleep thing... if it's really important would you fall asleep? Again its not like we were talking forever or that it was super late... 

I guess it just really set me off because I saw that as a sign of how important this relationship is, or in this case, is not to her.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> Yeah I get that.... I said that... not word for word obviously, but I let her know it bothered me....
> 
> But the falling asleep thing... if it's really important would you fall asleep? Again its not like we were talking forever or that it was super late...
> 
> ...


This is only your first step at putting up a boundary.

Be patient with yourself.

Being on the right road is good, but you just put down the first brick. Expecting it all to snap perfect immediately is not realistic.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Oh my bad... I didn't explain correctly I guess.... she does this a lot and she knows it hurts me evrytime, because I tell so. This is not new... its reoccurring.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

Matty, I agree with Conrad. but (and I say this not knowing all the details)' but can you really blame her for falling asleep? is it possible that she was so tired that she could not help it? We've all been there. As for blaming you, from what you said here, she simply said that we shouldn't be talking about this in bed. Was it blame or a simple statement that the circumstances weren't the best for discussing such important matters?

Take a step back before you make a life-altering decision. You badly wanted things to go one way and they didn't Your emotions are so high right now. Get some distance and look at it again. Would you really end it because she fell asleep? The fact that she apologized shows some respect. She could have just gone on as if nothing had happened.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

she didn't apologize... she blame shifted. and no, i'm not leaving her for this. i'm leaving her because i am looking at this from 1000 feet up, and i don't ever see anything changing. she'll never be the partner that i need. i dont want to change her, can't change her. but i also have needs that need to get met. why be with someone that can't meet them?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Because you do not know that. And, you have much work to do on you


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

why is this soo hard? i don't get this. it's like you guys are talking calculus and i'm in simple arithmetic... is it just me, or do i seem to be really dumb in understanding relationships and my own effing feelings. i feel so lost right now. so confused. i just want to be happy. i just want someone to love me the way that i need. it shouldn't be this hard... arrrghhh


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> why is this soo hard? i don't get this. it's like you guys are talking calculus and i'm in simple arithmetic... is it just me, or do i seem to be really dumb in understanding relationships and my own effing feelings. i feel so lost right now. so confused. i just want to be happy. i just want someone to love me the way that i need. it shouldn't be this hard... arrrghhh



You're not dumb. It's hard because you are the one emotionally tied up in all this, not us.

When you meet the right person, it won't be hard.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

^ this is what's confusing... and i take it all with a grain of salt, but one of you says one thing, and then the other the opposite. based off of what i am telling, isn't there just one clear conclusion. black and white. 

conrad says i need to lead, but mem says i can't be the one to go first, you say i'll know when i meet the right person... i just don't get it. and i want to. i feel soo dumb, which is really hard for me, because things come REALLY easily to me. i'm a smart guy. i just want to detach from this whole thing and move on. i can't handle this anymore. 

but then i think... well, if you don't learn now, you'll just have to learn in your next relationship. eff me.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> why is this soo hard? i don't get this. it's like you guys are talking calculus and i'm in simple arithmetic... is it just me, or do i seem to be really dumb in understanding relationships and my own effing feelings. i feel so lost right now. so confused. i just want to be happy. i just want someone to love me the way that i need. it shouldn't be this hard... arrrghhh


I'm right there with mjm. You are getting great advice here. Follow it. It may very well save your marriage. Wish I found this place when the bomb dropped for me and my emotional insanity went into action.

Slow down right now. There is no quick fix for your marriage. It took months or years to get to its current state. It's going to take just as long to undo, if that's even possible.

Pressing her for discussion is only going to drive her further away.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Frostflower said:


> You're not dumb. It's hard because you are the one emotionally tied up in all this, not us.
> 
> When you meet the right person, it won't be hard.


It will be hard if he isn't right with himself.

He'll be codependent with that one too.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

spun said:


> *pressing her for discussion is only going to drive her further away.*


this


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

I don't get it...


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> I don't get it...


We can tell

Take a deep breath and read all the links on this one:

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/18181-man-up-nice-guy-reference.html


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

spun said:


> I'm right there with mjm. You are getting great advice here. Follow it. It may very well save your marriage. Wish I found this place when the bomb dropped for me and my emotional insanity went into action.
> 
> Slow down right now. There is no quick fix for your marriage. It took months or years to get to its current state. It's going to take just as long to undo, if that's even possible.
> 
> Pressing her for discussion is only going to drive her further away.


none of the advice is clear here... maybe i need someone to spell it out for me...


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> this


nobody is pressing her. she wanted to talk to me. she instigated. am i not explaining things clearly?


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> none of the advice is clear here... maybe i need someone to spell it out for me...


I think what we are all trying to tell you, Matty, is that you need to work on YOU. Read the links that Conrad gave you.

I amend what I said: become the best you can be and then it won't be hard when you meet the right person.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> none of the advice is clear here... maybe i need someone to spell it out for me...


Let's take your marriage out of this for just this second.

What do you do when someone is pressing to do something your not sure you want to do?

You pull back, right?

What if that person kept following you around, pressing for the same thing over and over again.

You want to escape the situation.

You see she not interested in having this dialogue with you right now, that's crystal clear. And by pressing, your not respecting her. She is falling asleep to escape you.

You still have a chance. If you pull back, observe, and wait until she is ready to talk.

Me, my wife chose to escape with posOM.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

i have read all the links... it was the first thing i did when i got to this site. i get it. 

what i'm not sure what to do now is how to apply that into this situation. what are the tangible "action items" if you will... 

if i tell her i'd like to make it work and do so, then i look weak according to mem. 

if i keep talking about it with her so we can come to a conclusion on what our intended path will be, apparently i'm driving her away. 

and after all of this, when i work on me (however long that takes) at some time I'll know if this relationship is worth being in or not. 

it seems confusing and backwards. i need a freaking outline or something. step 1: do this. step 2: do that.. and at the end of each step, i need to see the big picture. how does step 1 impact the end result? etc....

do you guys get where i'm going with this. i'm highly analytical and if i can't put the pieces together to see the big picture, i confuse the heck out of myself trying to make sense of something that doesn't. i'm a cursed virgo.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Set boundaries and observe.

Quit jumping around emotionally.

You don't have nearly the information you need yet.

As far as being "cursed"?

Sounds like victimspeak, no?


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## Frostflower (Jul 22, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i have read all the links... it was the first thing i did when i got to this site. i get it.
> 
> what i'm not sure what to do now is how to apply that into this situation. what are the tangible "action items" if you will...
> 
> ...


I bow to Conrad on this one. He is good at outlining things.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

spun said:


> Let's take your marriage out of this for just this second.
> 
> What do you do when someone is pressing to do something your not sure you want to do?
> 
> ...


she's coming to me. she wants to make things work but is scared ... rightfully so. but i don't see where i'm pushing. but i do get the adage, "less talk, more do".


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Sounds like victimspeak, no?


no, i'm just really bothered that i'm struggling with something that seems to come easy to everyone else. me being who i am i'm very proud of, but one thing i get down on myself very quickly is when i'm unable to learn a new thing as quick as i would hope. that's all. i'm definitely not playing the victim card ... just frustrated is all.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

Conrad said:


> Set boundaries and observe.


Observe how she reacts to me setting them, or the consequences that are attached to pushing those boundaries. and what do you do, how do you react, when someone crosses a boundary? just tell them, and see what happens next? what if they do it again.


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## spun (Jul 2, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> she's coming to me. she wants to make things work but is scared ... rightfully so. but i don't see where i'm pushing. but i do get the adage, "less talk, more do".


Then let her keep coming to you. Listen. Be her rock. Right now, you are an emotional yoyo. It's ok to feel that way. Just be strong and don't show it.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

spun said:


> Listen. Be her rock.


perhaps this is my problem. i know that she wants me to tell her that we'll be okay... i don't want to, because she'll take that to mean that we ARE ok, and nothing will change from that point on. it will be as it has been. i want to move past this with her, but i feel completely stuck on how to proceed without killing our chances of figuring this **** out. 

i know it sounds bad of me to say this, but if she feels like things are ok with me, she'll go on and stop caring about me, beginning to focus on all the other priorities that she has. she'll effectively discontinue the thought that this relationship needs any attention at all.


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## mattyjman (Jun 6, 2012)

mattyjman said:


> i know it sounds bad of me to say this, but if she feels like things are ok with me, she'll go on and stop caring about me, beginning to focus on all the other priorities that she has. she'll effectively discontinue the thought that this relationship needs any attention at all.


this... i didn't realize how honest this was until i posted it. i don't mean to quote myself, but if i could figure this out, it would go a long way.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

mattyjman said:


> Observe how she reacts to me setting them, or the consequences that are attached to pushing those boundaries. and what do you do, how do you react, when someone crosses a boundary? just tell them, and see what happens next? what if they do it again.


You tell them what you are - and are not - ok with.

And, you observe their response.

If they ignore your boundary, you simply make yourself less available to them.


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