# When the husband cheats vs. when the wife cheats



## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

I don't want to embarass the person I'm quoting, but I pulled this from another thread to start this thread instead of hijacking the one where this appeared. The person who posted this is a brilliant person, but I'd like to discuss this point a bit.



EleGirl said:


> Statistics on affair are interesting. When a husband has an affair, some 90% of the marriages survive the affair and go on to recover.
> 
> When the wife cheats very few marriages, around 10%, go on to recover. Why? I think there are two reasons. Men cannot often handle the humiliation of being cheated on so they just walk away from a cheating wife. But the other reason is that when a woman has an affair, she is more likely to become emotionally attached to her affair partner and thus not want to recover the marriage.


I have a little different hypothesis on this, however; my time on this site has made me question this hypothesis a bit more. I've actually never thought of the points that EleGirl pointed out, and they are quite interesting. My thoughts before ever coming here: 

The man is usually the HD partner. This means he normally asks, and the woman agrees or does not agree to sex. If she is true to him, then the man thinks of this as her rejecting sex and not always as her rejecting him personally.

When the man cheats, the woman, if she was the one rejecting sex, may tend to think, "If I had given him want he needed, he wouldn't have cheated." If the woman cheats, then the man thinks of all of those times when she rejected him, and now she has gone to someone else, and those rejections are no longer viewed as rejections of sex. They are viewed as rejections of him personally.

I'd like to hear why other people think this is.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

shy_guy said:


> This doesn't help the OP, but I think there is another reason for this ... although after coming to this site, I have begun to wonder about this hypothesis a bit more.


Actually I think that your thoughts explain more of what I was talking about.


shy_guy said:


> The man is usually the HD partner. This means he normally asks, and the woman agrees or does not agree to sex. If she is true to him, then the man thinks of this as her rejecting sex and not always as her rejecting him personally.
> 
> When the man cheats, the woman, if she was the one rejecting sex, may tend to think, "If I had given him want he needed, he wouldn't have cheated."


I think that this is one of the main reasons that marriage where the husband cheats are more likely to recover infidelity. Women tend to do a lot of guilt trip on themselves. I think another reason is that historically women were taught to just look the other way… that men cheat . And women had few choices. With no financial independence women had no choice but to just look the other way. About 50% of all women are still SAHM or earn very little in low paying jobs. So that means that about 50% of women are still in a position where they have few options to support themselves and their children. They see more than their relationship at risk.. it’s their entire life.


shy_guy said:


> If the woman cheats, then the man thinks of all of those times when she rejected him, and now she has gone to someone else, and those rejections are no longer viewed as rejections of sex. They are viewed as rejections of him personally.


And this goes ot the man’s ego. Once he’s had the thoughts that all those no’s were rejections of HIM and not sex, he his humiliated and his ego is busted.



shy_guy said:


> I'd like to hear your comment on that if we can do that without hijacking the thread.


So there are my comments.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

OH and here's for embarrassing me 


:2gunsfiring_v1:


:rofl:


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Actually I think that your thoughts explain more of what I was talking about.
> 
> I think that this is one of the main reasons that marriage where the husband cheats are more likely to recover infidelity. Women tend to do a lot of guilt trip on themselves.


I can agree with this.



EleGirl said:


> I think another reason is that historically women were taught to just look the other way… that men cheat . And women had few choices. With no financial independence women had no choice but to just look the other way. About 50% of all women are still SAHM or earn very little in low paying jobs. So that means that about 50% of women are still in a position where they have few options to support themselves and their children. They see more than their relationship at risk.. it’s their entire life.


Interesting in that I thought of this as one reason a woman may stay with an abusive husband, but had never thought of this as a reason the marriage survived a cheating husband. Good thought.



EleGirl said:


> And this goes ot the man’s ego. Once he’s had the thoughts that all those no’s were rejections of HIM and not sex, he his humiliated and his ego is busted.


Do you think that's unique to men? I ask because I think this is a woman's explanation if you can forgive me for the generalization. When I look at threads here even, I see in one thread the legitimate anger the woman has because her husband is masturbating instead of meeting her needs. She has every right to be upset IMO. I'm thinking if that was another woman instead of masturbation, you'd see very similar reactions as what I said in a man. So my question is: "Is it a male ego thing really? or is this normal reaction when someone is personally rejected?"


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

I think you missed the mark big time when you talked about a womans dependance on men for financial stabality. Maybe in the olden days but not now. Many women make just as much as men in the work force. Also, women still get custody of the children and men have to pay maintainance to women for the children. This puts them in a much better position financially than men in general.

Remember, none of this is taken into account as this money belongs to the "Children". (Yeah right).

I do agreee with you however that when a woman cheats, she usually gives her heart to the new partner and is more willing to stay. When the man cheats, he's often only looking for a good time and has no attachment to the new partner. At least not to the extent of the cheating woman. So it's easier for him to break it off than it is for her.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Diolay said:


> I think you missed the mark big time when you talked about a womans dependance on men for financial stabality. Maybe in the olden days but not now. Many women make just as much as men in the work force. Also, women still get custody of the children and men have to pay maintainance to women for the children. This puts them in a much better position financially than men in general.


The last statistics I read about how many women work outside the home I was really surprised that the numbers were lower than I would have expected. I just did a google search and found some current statistics of how many women are in the work force. About 60% of women work. That means that a good percentage are not employed outside the home. So a significant percentage of women are not earning anything and are most likely dependent on a husband to support them.

Women in the labor force, 2010

I will bet that among women who earn what men earn divorce is much more common. I’m in this category and divorce does not scare me at all. I divorced my ex-husband when I caught him cheating. And I might end up doing this with my current husband as well. 



Diolay said:


> Remember, none of this is taken into account as this money belongs to the "Children". (Yeah right).


What do you mean that none of this is taken into account? Do you mean that the women’s income in not taken into account when figuring child support. That’s flat out untrue. I’m very much aware of how child support is calculated as I’ve been through a divorce on my own with my son and got child support.

While I earn a 6 figure income, my ex earns many times more than I do. I have also been involved with working on several divorces for others over the years and am very much aware of how child support is calculated in every state. It’s a formula that takes into account both parent’s income, the percentage of time a child spends with each parent and factors in special case items such as private school tuition.



Diolay said:


> I do agreee with you however that when a woman cheats, she usually gives her heart to the new partner and is more willing to stay. When the man cheats, he's often only looking for a good time and has no attachment to the new partner. At least not to the extent of the cheating woman. So it's easier for him to break it off than it is for her.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

When I say "none of this is taken into account," I'm talking about child support. 

WHile an ex may pay child support, and it might vary from state to state in US but here, child support comes under federal laws. QLD, NSW, VIC, etc, it's all the same. 18% of the GROSS income. (Not the net) per child. With 3 children for example, she collects 54% of his earnings. WHat's more, he pays all the tax. At tax time, she collects all the child rebates, not him. Also, tax rates here vary from 22% to 60% of the wage with a tax free threshold of $6,000. 

So, she ends up with 54% of his pay while he ends up around 36% after he pays ALL the tax. 

Remember too, even if she doesn't work, she still gets welfare payments and other benifits.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Bear in mind, that's if he's a low income earner. If he's a high income earner, he gets to keep even less percentage.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

If that doesn't put her on a better wicket than him, I'll stand rooted.


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

That's if he actually pays his cs and doesn't duck out of it like my ex. He spent a decade evading the authorities lying about his employment status and even moved to the south for a while. Our son is 18 now and he owes 27k in arrears. Also, if you're on public assistance the cs payments don't go to the mother. The state takes it. My ex's dad was also a deadbeat and he fled NJ for FL in the 80s to get out of his obligations. He returned to NJ when the youngest child was 18 thinking he was off the hook. The state came after him, not his ex wife, because his ex had to take welfare for a few years while she was in school.

Just because you have an order for support doesn't mean you will get the money. Yes, you can continually go back to court, have him arrested, etc but in the meantime the kids do without. Once I went through that I went back to school and now I'm the primary bread winner and I would never give up my ability to make a living for myself and my children. 

Finances are definitely a factor when a woman with no ability to support herself contemplates divorce. 




Diolay said:


> When I say "none of this is taken into account," I'm talking about child support.
> 
> WHile an ex may pay child support, and it might vary from state to state in US but here, child support comes under federal laws. QLD, NSW, VIC, etc, it's all the same. 18% of the GROSS income. (Not the net) per child. With 3 children for example, she collects 54% of his earnings. WHat's more, he pays all the tax. At tax time, she collects all the child rebates, not him. Also, tax rates here vary from 22% to 60% of the wage with a tax free threshold of $6,000.
> 
> ...


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## daisygirl 41 (Aug 5, 2011)

I blamed myself completely for my Hs EA. looked at every single little thing that I 'did wrong' over 18 years and questioned every time I didn't feel 'in the mood'. It's taken me 9 months to realise all the ways in which he let me down also in our marriage, but still I keep on fighting for our R. I have a good job and am a strong independent woman but still I can't let him go!! 

I kind of disagree about the notion of the woman looking for an emotional bond from an A and a man looking for the sex. I think this is an outdated take on affairs. More and more women are looking for the thrill and excitement of an A to take them away from their boring daily routines, while more men are looking for the emotional support that they can get, esp. from an EA. I don't think the patterns are so clear cut any more.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

Diolay said:


> If that doesn't put her on a better wicket than him, I'll stand rooted.


How is it a better wicket unless she's smoking crack with the money? The ex husband has a 1 person household and the ex wife has a 1+ however many kids household to manage. I told my ex that he could have custody and that I would give him the $80/week in support that he felt I was living the high life on. Funny but he wasn't interested.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

Obviously, you have an entirley different set up to here.

If the ex doesn't pay cs, it comes out of his pay before he even gets it. The employer pays it to the Child Support Agency direct from his pay. He cannot lie about where he works as when ever you are sucessful for a job, you have to supply your Tax File Number to the employer. He/she HAS to (by law) submit that to the Tax Office who in turn, notifys the CSA where you are working, terms of employment etc. There's no getting out of it.This also applies to any part time work etc.

Also, if the other parent is recieving welfare, these extra payments do not effect, or have very little effect, on those payments. IT most certainly doesn't impact on other things such as rental assistance, child endownment etc. These are all still paid to the custodial parent. 

Where is she on the losing end of this deal???


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

You're in Australia, I'm in the NYC metro-area. The first question you're asked if you apply for any sort of public assistance is where is dad? Human resources goes after the non-custodial parent for support payments regardless of whether it's cash payment, rental assistance, or foodstamps. CSis supposed to be deducted from wages but once he quits or loses that job the onus is on you to find out where or if he works. CS here does not do investigations. If he files taxes you might get him that way in the form of a tax refund intercept which will also prove him a liar. The thing is the courts won't look for a tax refund because the liar denies having a job. Basically, I need a PI to get this info....which cost money

You speak of losing like its a game.  How is being cheated on and then being left with a child or multiple children to raise all alone winning? Yeah the non-custodial parent is broke but they get to do whatever they want whenever they want to and also have a much better chance in the dating world. Who do you want to go out with? The person who has 3 kids that are always around or the person who has three kids that come around every other weekend? There are no winners when the home is broken. 

Also how much of a non custodial parents income should a custodial parent receive? Guess its subjective. My ex felt like $80/week was too much. He lives by the you can feed,shelter,and clothe a child for 72cents a day theory. 



Diolay said:


> Obviously, you have an entirley different set up to here.
> 
> If the ex doesn't pay cs, it comes out of his pay before he even gets it. The employer pays it to the Child Support Agency direct from his pay. He cannot lie about where he works as when ever you are sucessful for a job, you have to supply your Tax File Number to the employer. He/she HAS to (by law) submit that to the Tax Office who in turn, notifys the CSA where you are working, terms of employment etc. There's no getting out of it.This also applies to any part time work etc.
> 
> ...


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

I feel your pain. I really do but you and I have very different experiences.

It was my ex wife who cheated and she ran off with the guy and took the kids. 18mths, 4 and 5. 

The child support I had to pay was thousands per month. She never married the guy (not that that makes a difference to cs) sut was collecting the singe parent payments, child endownment, rental assistance as well as the tax rebate which I paid. Let's not forget his pay.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

In USA, it would appear the law favors the father but her, it definatly favors the mother.


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## lonesomegra (Dec 11, 2011)

I was always of the opinion, without doing any research may I add, that divorce rates are higher in places/countries where wealth is more abundant. To me if people could afford to divorce they would do so a lot quicker than the unwealthy. I'd love to see country by country/state by state figures to test this theory.

As for more men wanting a divorce after being cheated on I would say this comes under 'stag in the herd' rules or a refusal to be cuckolded on.


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

I feel your pain too and I'm sorry that you got an unfair break. I think Australia might have less ways for the non-custodial parent to wriggle out of their obligations. 

I lived with my current husband prior to marriage and this was another one of his sore spots. He told me to let my new man take care of whatever our son needed. Dh told me that he gladly would and has made good on that promise but how is her new guy responsible for your children? His income shouldn't be a factor. My ex is living in a luxury apt complex with his live in gf of ten years. Rent starts at $2300/month. Mind you this clown claims he is unemployed. Maybe I should sue her for the arrears? 

Your ex and her affair partner are low-life's with a huge karmic debt but they're not his kids...not his problem. Now if he ever loses his common sense and marries her that's a different situation.

Its not a given that mom gets over and dad gets screwed. So back to the topic.....women do consider finances...especially when children are involved. I'm sure plenty of women directly know or know of a woman with a WH and would like to go but stay due to finances. Your ex was the cheater...she had a plan. If the shoe was on the other foot and she didn't have a new man to latch onto chances are you would still be married or it would have taken her a while to get herself together to leave. 



Diolay said:


> In USA, it would appear the law favors the father but her, it definatly favors the mother.


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

I'm not saying my children are his responsibility. Oh no. I mean, they are in a way as he is the one who took them off me in co-hoots with the ex by having the affair, He also does in the way that he has taken over the father role to ensure they are brought up properly.

But that's really not the issue here. 

When it comes to making a decision about leaving, affair or not, finances are not really a problem here as the custodial parent have the means to be taken care of in that way. 

So, does a mother have to worry about money when it comes to divorce? No she doesn't.

By the way, my ex lives in a brand new 4 bedroom government house (it was brand new when she moved in) with large back yard, pool etc for $180 per week. I live in a 2 bedroom flat tat costs $400 per week.

For the record, my kids are now grown except one of them.


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

That is the issue the exact issue. Your ex wasn't concerned about finances because your society is set up in such a way that she didn't have to worry about it. Do you think she would have been so ready to go if she didn't have a new man and the govt to rely on? She did the math, realized it was in her favor, and she made her move. 




Diolay said:


> But that's really not the issue here.
> 
> When it comes to making a decision about leaving, affair or not, finances are not really a problem here as the custodial parent have the means to be taken care of in that way.
> 
> ...


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## Diolay (Jan 25, 2012)

I meant it's not the issue about him being responsible. 

The issue is about her having the finances and govt support.


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## Ayla (Aug 24, 2011)

Diolay said:


> I meant it's not the issue about him being responsible.
> 
> The issue is about her having the finances and govt support.


 Thanks for clarifying that.


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## johnnycomelately (Oct 30, 2010)

shy_guy said:


> I don't want to embarass the person I'm quoting, but I pulled this from another thread to start this thread instead of hijacking the one where this appeared. The person who posted this is a brilliant person, but I'd like to discuss this point a bit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The conventional scientific theory for this states that it is because men fear wasting resources on a child that is not his. If we have evolved to propogate our genes this is obviously something we would want to avoid.


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## tobio (Nov 30, 2010)

When my OH strayed, there was no such condemning of myself by way of "If I'd given him everything he wanted hd wouldn't have strayed" (paraphrased from earlier in thread.). My OH looked elsewhere through his own issues. Issues to do with me but not mine IYSWIM. Rather than dealing with them he got distracted in the attentions of another woman where he didn't have to think of his problems. 

And he was flattered. He had low self-esteem prior to meeting me. I built him up and made him feel good. So the ego fed off her attention. Even though here at home he states unequivocally that I never didn't meet his needs.

I don't think these reasons are male-specific however. I forgave him primarily for me; I could see the shame and humiluation he felt and still feels for acting how he did as he still can't align what he did with who he believes himself to be: a person with morals and integrity. Not because of any social or economic reasons.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## LuvMyH (Nov 11, 2009)

I agree with the op somewhat, but I would add that not as many men in reconciliation post often in CWI because some of the other men can be almost hostile when they do- graphically pointing out what their wives may have done and insinuating that those men who forgive and try to save their marriage are weak. Not all of the time, but often enough to discourage some people in reconciliation from posting as often as they might wish.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## shy_guy (Jan 25, 2012)

johnnycomelately said:


> The conventional scientific theory for this states that it is because men fear wasting resources on a child that is not his. If we have evolved to propogate our genes this is obviously something we would want to avoid.


I have a little problem with this explanation, but for a different reason. I'll be as brief as possible 

My wife and I have 2 "homemade" children, and one adopted child. The adopted child is not related to us genetically in any way, and in fact, the racial mix is even different from our homemade children. We were matched with his birthmother when she was 7 months pregnant, took her to her Dr. appts the remainder of her pregnancy (something that was important to her), we were there with her when he was born ... that explanation is just so you know when we got acquainted with this child - a legitimate question when adoption questions are asked. Possibly also relevant to our discussion: Our adopted child is our youngest.

Looking inside me, I can find absolutely no difference in the way I love my homemade kids and the way I love my adopted kid. When I look at my wife, her actions tell me the same thing about her, and that includes the level of maternal worry she exhibits. 

I might see that a child could be a constant reminder of betrayal, and that would be an additional difficulty for anyone. (I'm trying to think of an example that would go the other direction and would be such a reminder to a woman. The examples I can think of right now aren't good ones.)

We don't have betrayal in our relationship, but from what we do have, I can't see any fear of wasting resources on a child that is not my biological child, and I think I would have opportunity for that to rear its head if it was there.


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## mikeydread1982 (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow, this thing took a turn quick. My $0.02. Men get escpecially hurt when their woman cheats because women are usually the ones pushing the idea of monogomous relationships. They usually make themselves out to be holier than thou when they hear of someone cheating, its just their entire attitudes towards relationships. Now as to why women are more "accepting". I honestly think its because they know the man they got involved with, meaning, that one lapse in judgment does not define him, and he may be an overall great man. Especially if he is attractive and manly. Also, it may be "easier" to see that he did it solely for sex, and is not trying to fall in love with anyone else. And I am being as general as possible.


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## Love Song (Jan 16, 2012)

Why do people complain about child support? Would you rather see your child not be as well off? I have a solution for you, have the kid(s) 50% of the time (like every other week). Than no one gets child support.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 7737 (Feb 10, 2011)

To bring this back on track...(!!!!)... Men need sex. It is his wifes job to provide him with it. 
Now we heap a load of 21st century reality etc on it.... both are probably working so both have to do their fair share of the household 'chores'. They do. They are a 'team' running their lives. 

However the man still has his basic needs - sex. Sex is VERY important to a man. If the man wants sex from his wife say 2x a week (which, lets face it, isnt unreasonable) she isnt interested but they compromise on once a week (as if its a chore!...). Both are (more or less happy)
If however the wife will only allow her husband 'access' once a month when he wants 2x a week then the chances of him being 'fed' elsewhere are high.

Is it the wifes fault? If the husband is being the 'ideal' husband, responding to his wifes needs, doing his (+ more) share of the chores, buys her flowers etc but she still 'jams' on sex, then too right its her fault (assuming there are no hormonal/medical conditions).

If the same wife went out to be 'fed' elsewhere then the message is clear....its not that she doesn't want sex, its that she doesnt want it with her husband. So why should the husband stay?

When the husband wanders its because he isnt getting what he needs at home.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

7737 said:


> To bring this back on track...(!!!!)... Men need sex. It is his wifes job to provide him with it.
> Now we heap a load of 21st century reality etc on it.... both are probably working so both have to do their fair share of the household 'chores'. They do. They are a 'team' running their lives.
> 
> However the man still has his basic needs - sex. Sex is VERY important to a man. If the man wants sex from his wife say 2x a week (which, lets face it, isnt unreasonable) she isnt interested but they compromise on once a week (as if its a chore!...). Both are (more or less happy)
> ...


How many times I say it that 90% of men fall in this category. Only narcissists and serial cheaters are looking for "strange". You get it at home and outside maybe an indiscretion on a trip (if you travel a lot), may be the only hiccup.

When women cheat generally there are many other reasons that led them down that path and the marriage may already be broken.

For men it is having sex.....

Why this is argued over and over, I don't know as it is so simple.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> How many times I say it that 90% of men fall in this category. Only narcissists and serial cheaters are looking for "strange". You get it at home and outside maybe an indiscretion on a trip (if you travel a lot), may be the only hiccup.
> 
> When women cheat generally there are many other reasons that led them down that path and the marriage may already be broken.
> 
> ...


I don't agree, for men it isn't always having sex. For men it can be that they feel a need to be nurtured in a way they aren't getting at home. If they don't feel appreciated, loved, noticed, etc. they may seek that type of affection elsewhere. An affair may not even start as a sexual relationship.

I think it's a gross oversimplification to state that for men sex = purely physical.


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

Aye, agreed.

I haven't cheated and I hope to God that I don't. However, it would be darn nice to feel desired again rather than sex being a chore or something to check off of your TODO list...

I would say it is typically more about EGO than the physical act itself.

AllThePrettyHorses,

I would say that is actually pretty true with some exceptions (as HaveSomethingToSay pointed out). I like to think of myself as one of the "good guys". In the past I wouldn't have even considered straying. And, in fact, have turned down opportunities on business trips. But I am weak and when my wife has lost all desire for me it makes it REALLY hard to resist...


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Browncoat said:


> I don't agree, for men it isn't always having sex. For men it can be that they feel a need to be nurtured in a way they aren't getting at home. If they don't feel appreciated, loved, noticed, etc. they may seek that type of affection elsewhere. An affair may not even start as a sexual relationship.
> 
> I think it's a gross oversimplification to state that for men sex = purely physical.


You are splitting hairs. When I say sex for a man, it is the whole thing....... Yes sex is feeling desired. You can fight and have your daily squabbles and issues and it all melts away when you have a good romp.

You are saying the same thing and just expanding it. We all feel appreciated when our spouse happily jumps our bones.....


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

HaveSomething to Say:
New here and not sure how to quote but "you get it at home and maybe an indiscrition on a business trip" is totally opposite of what you said earlier. You said men need sex and that wives need to provide that so if he is getting it at home, why cheat?
In reading around here and in hearing from friends, cheating has nothing to do with sex regarding men. It has to do with feeling wanted,needed,adored and loved. If it was just sex, a prostitute would be the answer but it isn't. In my opinion, cheating is the same for men and women.


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

Perhaps I was splitting hairs unintentionally. I'll say this though: no one is ever forced to be unfaithful, it's a choice. It maybe a snap decision, but it's a choice.

While the HD spouse maybe more tempted to cheat if they aren't being satisfied at home sexually, in the end a lot of other things go into the mix. Affection, non-sexual intimacy, love, trust (desire to honor a spouse's trust).

If a man sleeps with another women purely for the sex, in his heart/mind there are other reasons why he would cheat at all. He made a conscious/unconscious choice to step outside of the marriage... imo to fulfill a need.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> HaveSomething to Say:
> New here and not sure how to quote but "you get it at home and maybe an indiscrition on a business trip" is totally opposite of what you said earlier. You said men need sex and that wives need to provide that so if he is getting it at home, why cheat?
> In reading around here and in hearing from friends, cheating has nothing to do with sex regarding men. It has to do with feeling wanted,needed,adored and loved. If it was just sex, a prostitute would be the answer but it isn't. In my opinion, cheating is the same for men and women.


95% of men will tell you if they are having good sex at home, in your words they are "feeling wanted,needed,adored and loved".


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

I guess I don't understand you then. You wrote that a man has sex with his wife and then cheats while away on business. Why is he cheating then? Why did you also call that a "hiccup" like it is some involuntary body response? Not sure I understand.


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> I guess I don't understand you then. You wrote that a man has sex with his wife and then cheats while away on business. Why is he cheating then? Why did you also call that a "hiccup" like it is some involuntary body response? Not sure I understand.


Fine I should not have made that caveat. What I meant is that maybe a small % of men in a wonderful marriage and relationship may slip every once in a while, especially if they travel extensively for business........... But the vast, vast majority of men (95%+) would never cheat if all is good at home (which it is if you are having good sex at home).....

Quit obsessing over that one part of hat I wrote (which in retrospect I shouldn't have).


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## frustr8dhubby (Dec 23, 2010)

I don't know of any in my circle but I am sure it could happen given the right circumstances of alcohol, attractive person, yada yada.

I know it is hard to fathom but many of us have no desire to cheat and find our wives desirable but it needs to be reciprocated.

I have a good friend who I believe actually SHOULD cheat. His wife is not good to him and they have sex way less than my wife and I but he sticks it out... :scratchhead:

*EDIT* OK, maybe he shouldn't cheat but in some ways it would be justified in my book. (Well I have told him he should consider his options for leaving but I don't think he will).


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## Browncoat (Mar 25, 2012)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> Frankly, this all sounds rather promising to me.
> I was taught men will cheat no matter what. Before you start roaring with fury, look at relationship books and forums about relationships abound. I was told there's no chance of fidelity in this world.
> 
> 
> By the way, I am curious about this. Do people actually have slip-ups? You will probably say yes, but how many people actually are extremely happy and then "accidentally" wind up having an indiscretion?


No there are good men who don't cheat. Maybe it's the circle of co-workers and friends I have, but I personally know of only two males who cheated my whole life (sadly it was my father and then my step-father).

In both of those cases they weren't accidents. They wanted to cheat and went out and sought it. That's just my little corner of the world though.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

7737 said:


> To bring this back on track...(!!!!)... Men need sex. It is his wifes job to provide him with it.
> Now we heap a load of 21st century reality etc on it.... both are probably working so both have to do their fair share of the household 'chores'. They do. They are a 'team' running their lives.
> 
> However the man still has his basic needs - sex. Sex is VERY important to a man. If the man wants sex from his wife say 2x a week (which, lets face it, isnt unreasonable) she isnt interested but they compromise on once a week (as if its a chore!...). Both are (more or less happy)
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

There is no one size fits all but this is very valid. Men need sex. Not just for physical need. A man's #1 emotional need is usually sexual fullfillment ( exclusive ) and #2 respect. Men are often the high drive. So in a compromise they have sex less often than they would like.

So that when a woman cheats it is a bigger hit. It blows #1 and #2 needs completely out of the water. It is also a slap in the face as she is out having sex with another man and did not want that sex from him. 

Sex is how men connect.

Add to this that men are wired to protect their mate from having sex with another male and the man is now pretty much in his own eyes worhtless.

He can never view his wife the same way again. She can never really be the woman who was always faithful again. Who always respected him. he is no longer her selection as the fittest male. Yes we need that. We need to be respected and admired by our wives. As the fittest male. Call it ego if you want. It is what makes a man have value in his own eyes. And that matters the most. Being around a woman who would humiliate you would be a constant reminder of your being less than other men at least in her eyes. She chose someone else after she had chosen you. That matters.

I do not agree that all men cheat only when their needs are not met. Some are just @ssholes. But I think that is also true of women these days.
People can be @ssholes.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

daisygirl 41 said:


> I blamed myself completely for my Hs EA. looked at every single little thing that I 'did wrong' over 18 years and questioned every time I didn't feel 'in the mood'. It's taken me 9 months to realise all the ways in which he let me down also in our marriage, but still I keep on fighting for our R. I have a good job and am a strong independent woman but still I can't let him go!!
> 
> I kind of disagree about the notion of the woman looking for an emotional bond from an A and a man looking for the sex. I think this is an outdated take on affairs. More and more women are looking for the thrill and excitement of an A to take them away from their boring daily routines, while more men are looking for the emotional support that they can get, esp. from an EA. I don't think the patterns are so clear cut any more.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I think the bottom line is 90 percent of affairs can be completely avoided to begin with if you meet the primary needs of your spouse in the relationship. For me, emotional/physical touch and connection is at the top of my list. Without it, I know that I'm not going to remain committed due to need. When your spouse is not committed to meeting your needs, it opens the door for someone else to meet them. It's not a complicated concept. Not meeting needs is wrong, cheating is wrong. Two wrongs don't make it right, but the other normally doesn't happen when the tank is full.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> Women can increase their relative sex rank by how they dress, how flirtatious they are and perhaps how much of the right skin they show.


What is "the right skin?"



Entropy3000 said:


> He can never view his wife the same way again. She can never really be the woman who was always faithful again. Who always respected him. he is no longer her selection as the fittest male. Call it ego if you want. It is what makes a man have value in his own eyes. And that matters the most. Being around a woman who would humiliate you would be a constant reminder of your being less than other men at least in her eyes. She chose someone else after she had chosen you. That matters.


Funny. Women feel exactly the same way (worthless, humiliated, like they aren't the "fittest female") when a husband cheats on them.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

AllThePrettyHorses said:


> Sounds like mating behavior follows a specific list of traits that could be imitated, even synthesized.
> I think it's all true, except for one (maybe) quaint notion: Sexual attraction is more than the sum of its parts, in an unquantifiable way.


Can't argue with that. It is like anything in life, it is the total package that makes the difference.

Also people have their own preferences.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> *What is "the right skin?"*
> 
> *In the eye of the beholder. A sexy woman looks great no matter what. However, some women look very attractive in a short dress to display their legs or by showing some cleavage. You know this. It can be demonstrated in research well enough to validate my own experience. I know what shows on my personal radar and what does not.*
> 
> Funny. Women feel exactly the same way (worthless, humiliated, like they aren't the "fittest female") when a husband cheats on them.


I can only give the view from one man's perspective and from what I can deduce from other men. So when I say a man feels this way or that it is not that I exclude women. I may indeed be emphasizing men however as we are not the same as women on average. I do suspect that the estrogen level in men is increasing with testosterone on the decline. Anecdotal only.

I do think it folly to assume that men and women are exactly alike. That would be awful. I believe for example that men and women have similar needs but in in different priority. So yeah I buy into His Needs her Needs in a big way.

My point is from a man's perspective. The question was around why men in particular may not be willing to forgive a PA. I think EAs are very damaging and depending on the circumstances a deal breaker but I personally could not forgive a PA of any kind. One can flirt around the edges of that to find what is on the periphery that might be reconsilable but let's just call it a boundary for me that I am very t peace with. Which is what matters. Intellectually I understand that once in a situation one might behave differently. Some boundaries are more important than others and I am reasonably sure of this one.

But you also know the reference of fittest male. You do not have to buy into it. Men are less about the fittest female and more about any port in a storm. That is why preselection is more of a female consideration. I am not able to say whether women feel exactly the same way. Men and women have their differences for many reasons. The simplest is explained by hormones. They give us traits in a continuum of nuance and complexity. When our hormones change it impacts our feelings and behaviors. Add to this the cultural influences on men and how they have changed with the times.

I understand that since the 60s birth control has made a huge impact on things. But women have the children. When they are unfaithful they are having sex with other men who might impregnate them. Do not dismiss this in a husbands feelings. Men can certainly raise and love another man's child. I have. But the child was not the fruit of infidelity. Men are called cuckholds and ridiculed. Women are sympathized with. This is not an absolute as nothing is. But there is great shame to a man whose wife is unfaithful. You can say there is shame for the wife and I would contend that there is a magnitude of difference. A man with a cheating wife will actually be looked down upon in society above and beyond his marriage. Certainly other men are not wanting to emulate him. let alone what the children see.


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## phantomfan (Mar 7, 2012)

Entropy3000 said:


> But you also know the reference of fittest male. You do not have to buy into it. Men are less about the fittest female and more about any port in a storm. That is why preselection is more of a female consideration. I am not able to say whether women feel exactly the same way. Men and women have their differences for many reasons. The simplest is explained by hormones. They give us traits in a continuum of nuance and complexity. When our hormones change it impacts our feelings and behaviors. Add to this the cultural influences on men and how they have changed with the times.


I view the relationship books the same way I view religion. Each "religion" has truth in it somewhere. It works for you based on what you know, what you see and where you come from. What you do, think, believe, etc doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Our humanity is not static. We are all on an ever changing journey. 

Men and women are fundamentally different but we are also made to come together through those differences. We're wired differently but the overall drive to be with someone and procreate is built into every human being on the planet. That LCD is the truth behind our relationships. Having that connection with another human being is essential. How we get there and in what order, etc is going to differ. What matters to one person isn't going to matter to another. 

Ultimately if you have an unmet need that is not addressed in a relationship, the LCD will eventually cause you to seek out fulfillment either passively or actively. Some people can suppress unmet physical/emotional needs by putting energy into other things like their children. I think that long term, this is a losing proposition because the LCD will eventually win. Likely, the damage is going to be worse if diverted for a long time.


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## MominMayberry (Mar 27, 2012)

Entropy:
I think that is evo pop psych nonsense, sorry to say. You left out a large part of the equation in both sexes cheating and only assumed unfaithful women were getting pregnant. Whose impregnating them? Plenty of married men. You also wrote that men are looked down on if their wives cheat. Women are treated even harsher when their husbands cheat. Ever heard of "If you kept him happy at home he wouldn't have gone out" implying that she is 100% to blame for his infidelity. She is looked at by society like she caused it. 
I have no idea where you came up with the conclusions that you did but implying that adultery hurts on sex more than the other is way off base no matter what theories you dig up.


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> What is "the right skin?"


Cleavage comes to mind. 



> Funny. Women feel exactly the same way (worthless, humiliated, like they aren't the "fittest female") when a husband cheats on them.


You're absolutely right but sadly it is overshadowed by generalizations that women value more the loss of emotional connection with their husbands than the fact that they chose another woman to share their bodies with. What this does is to diminish the impact of one important aspect of the betrayal over another equally important aspect. Not good at all.


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## Vision (Mar 29, 2012)

Okay, I understand and agree with a lot of what people have written here. Maybe the people following this thread can offer me some insight/advice in my current situation. It is long, I know. Read on at your own risk. Thanks!

I met my husband right after high school and we got married soon after. Our relationship has been a love/hate one from the start and I often felt trapped. We have two kids and we’ve been together for almost 10 years. 2years ago I cheated on him with a couple random guys. I was fully aware of what I was doing. It wasn’t an accident. It wasn’t a hiccup. It was an intentional abandonment of our relationship and all it had come to stand for. Was it the right thing to do? Of course not. It didn’t help or fix anything and I felt like garbage about making such a self-destructive decision, even though I gained confidence and strength in other ways. I would be the last one to ask for forgiveness from him or anyone else. I would, however like to find understanding for what led me to that very dark and self-destructive place and perspective on how to handle the aftermath.
I had lived for 8 years in an emotionally abusive relationship. We fought all the time and I felt like I couldn’t ever do anything right. I think our individual problems and the flaws in our relationship were focused and amplified in our sex life. Sex itself didn’t start out as a chore, I physically enjoyed being with him and was more satisfied than most women, I’m sure. It was the emotional side that really suffered. 
My husband has an intense sex drive but doesn’t believe in masturbation. If he does masturbate, he is embarrassed and humiliated. I have never criticized it or looked down on it. It doesn’t hurt my feelings if he chooses to masturbate when we aren’t together and sex isn’t an option. I didn’t masturbate when we met, but I do periodically now. So, I was in a position where when he wanted it, he had to have it or I had to provide a sufficient justification for not wanting it. Cramps, exhaustion, stress, preoccupation with other concerns, being sick. . . none of these were a reason for him to take care of my personal needs or respect my space. He thought sex was the answer and solution to everything. 
If I said I didn’t want it right then, he would keep me up for hours harassing me and guilt tripping me until we fought. . . and then we would have make up sex at 2 am and I would go to sleep exhausted and hating him and hating myself for giving in. Healthy? No. It went on like this for years. He would even get irritable during sex and snap at me for doing things wrong and distracting him. If I didn’t orgasm, he would feel rejected so I trained myself to trick my mind and body into being aroused enough to reach that point almost every time. 
My relationship with sex and him because more and more twisted and perverse in order to cope and keep the peace. I began to dread bedtime and sex. I thought there was something wrong with me. I started exploring erotic literature, masturbation and pornography. Arousal was no problem but my mental and emotional confusion began to swallow me. Our sex life became more kinky as I tried new ways to force myself to respond. I just hated us both more. 
Eventually, I sat him down and bared my fears, hurt, anger, insecurity and confusion to him. I told him I just couldn’t have sex with him anymore. I couldn’t be with him anymore. I was too broken and fragile and confused. I wanted a divorce. He used to throw that word around all the time when we fought. I never did. Bringing it up then was real and serious to me. I was shocked by his reaction. This angry, intolerant man became so sweet and remorseful. He promised he loved me. He promised he would listen. He would try harder. He only wanted me to be happy. I cried so hard that night and then. . . . he very sweetly started to caress me. I didn’t have the heart or will to say no. I wasn’t ready, but we made love. He was content and went to sleep smiling and I died even more inside. He had no idea. He hadn’t heard a word I said. 
Things were so much better than before for about 2 weeks until our financial worries, trouble with his siblings and problems at work bore down on us again. We fell right back into the old patterns and I didn’t know what to do. Over the course of the next 8 months they just got worse than ever. Finally I told him that things had to change and I was moving with the kids to live with family. We were buried in debt, I was unemployed and he was making only ¼ of the income we needed each month.
I got a job, bought a car and started trying to piece together a solution. The separation was good for me, and him also. Or so I thought. He came to visit me and the kids. He wanted to find a job there and be with us. He told me he understood how wrong he had been and blind to my needs. He wanted to be my friend. I told him I wanted to be there for him, too. Then, he brought up sex. I told him I wasn’t ready. He begged and pleaded and told me that he had been looking forward to being close to me. I told him I was too hurt and needed time. He used every emotional manipulation in the book and as my exhaustion and confusion and doubt grew, he just tried harder and harder. Looking back, I can see that he knew every one of my buttons. He knew how to use my own emotions against me. He knew how much I cared for him and he used it against me. I caved. We had sex. He was happy. I hated myself.
Then, in the following days, I tried to walk the line between being a compassionate friend and wife, while sticking to my own goals for that period with my new job and responsibilities. One night, I was stressed and didn’t want to have sex because I was tired and busy. He got angry and accused me of not wanting him. I pointed out that I had told him all along I wasn’t ready and then the guilt and anger and yelling started. He was cruel and mean and angry, picking fights with me until he left 3 days later. I felt so humiliated and betrayed. I felt used. He didn’t want me, he just wanted a convenient f*** and he didn’t want to face the self-loathing he felt when he masturbated. I felt like his *****.
I decided right then that I was done. However, after he flew back to his place he called me up apologizing and making excuses. I was done and so angry that I refused to talk to him. He called me every hour of the day. He called and texted me at work. He kept me up at night to fight with me and accuse me of being unforgiving and cold. 
I started meeting guys on chat sites. I arranged to meet up with one and gave him a BJ. He was nice and I probably could have had fun hanging out with him but I felt sick and didn’t speak to him again.
I decided that was not what I wanted. But then, my husband started a new round of guilt trips and accusations. I was so sick of the back and forth. I wanted to be free of him. I felt like he owned my body and my soul and my sanity. So, I contacted one of the guys I had chatted with before. We went out on a real date and went back to his place. I had fun with him. I felt cold and scared and nervous inside, but I had fun and felt completely carefree during sex for the first time in years!!!
I wanted to stay in touch but my husband guessed what was going on by some things I said during one of our fights. I denied it because I was too mixed up to answer his questions. I had told him I was done and wanted a divorce, but I wasn’t in any sort of financial position to be on my own and supporting 2 kids. I needed family support from both sides and I knew divorce would make that impossible. My job and health were suffering from the stress. I was a bigger mess than before. I knew I had screwed things up beyond repair by my decision to cheat, but they were such a mess before I didn’t know how to go on living. I contemplated suicide too many times to count during that period. 
When my husband realized how destroyed I was, he stopped picking fights with me. He immediately quit his job to move up with us. He planned a romantic weekend to take me out and make things up to me. During that weekend, I was not going to sleep with him, but I didn’t know how to talk to him. Nothing I said ever seemed to sink in. Finally, I confessed everything. He was crushed. It hurt so much to see the man I had loved for so long, the father of my kids, looking like a lost and abandoned boy. I told him I wanted a divorce. I wanted us to both be healthy and happy. I pointed out that we had been fighting for almost 9 years straight and it was time to stop. 
His response was to ask for sex one more time. I didn’t want to. I wanted to get tested since I had no clue of the other guys’ histories. I wanted space and time to be normal. I wanted to be alone and to figure out how to heal. He replied that he wasn’t worried about disease and he felt that if I had sex with a stranger then rejected him he would be crushed. I explained what was important to me and that I thought neither of us were ready for that. I was worried for his mental state. He reassured me and asked that we just have sex like strangers without worrying about anything or anyone else. Yes, I caved. I knew better, but I have always given in to him. And, believe it or not, we had the best sex of our relationship. The best sex I had ever had. I thought that meant that we could put everything behind us, remain friends, cut all the ties binding our relationship with guilt and expectations and worry and just focus on taking care of our life and obligations and kids as partners and friends.
This feeling lasted 4 days. Then, the shock finally hit him and I watched him and my entire life disintegrate again. Every wall I had torn down had to be rebuilt in a hurry. He went away again to finalize some business at our old house. And then he found a random girl to sleep with. He told me he felt he needed it, in advance. He planned it and even asked for my permission. I told him I was in no position to judge him or tell him what to do, but I was worried that he would regret a decision like that. I told him that if we were really going to move forward as partners than we couldn’t keep sabotaging our relationship. He agreed but did it anyway. He said he needed to feel like we were on even turf. As if we ever were before when I was a depressed, suicidal mess? 
I know I was wrong to cheat. I should have been decisive with my life and filed for divorce. I should never have muddied the waters. But I truly believed we were done and the relationship was beyond repair. He slept with another woman fully intending to return to me and our kids as my husband so we could be on equal footing. The depth of that insult and the pain of that rejection didn’t really sink in for months. It still makes me physically ill.
We are still together. We are not currently sleeping together although we did off and on for months after our ‘reconciliation’. I am looking for a counselor to help me through my issues. He still brings up sex all the time as if my pleas for space and time meant nothing. When I tell him I can’t for all the same reasons that have plagued me for our entire relationship, he zeroes in on the guys I met up with and says I don’t want him and that I think anyone else is better than him. I ask him repeatedly to not judge me or our relationship by that brief period. He says he doesn’t but then brings it up again a few days later. He says he loves me and just wants to share ‘love-making’ with me to be close. But it doesn’t feel close to me. He says part of him hates me but he doesn’t want to let that part out. Part of me hates him too for subjecting us all to so much pain and anger and emotional violence for so many years.
We have been working for the last 2 years on healing and repairing our relationship with each other, our families, our kids and our finances. Every time he brings up the fact I am rejecting him by rejecting sex it tears me apart. Can’t he understand our problems started long before I cheated? He acknowledges he hurt me for years but then acts as if that should have no bearing on my mental state today. He says he doesn’t feel like a man, like those men stole me away from him, but doesn’t acknowledge that he shoved me away before any other man was ever in the picture. He claims he only wants sex if I want it and it can be healthy, but pushes it repeatedly then has an emotional tantrum when I say I can’t.
I feel so torn up inside. The worst part is, even knowing I was wrong to cheat and I regret hurting him, I don’t feel guilty about the act itself. I feel like I regained possession of myself and my sexuality through that act. What is wrong with me? And what is wrong with him? We never talk about how he cheated, too. I think he feels it was justified and the natural response to my actions.

Any perspective or feedback is welcome. Thanks for reading such a long post!

-Vision


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## Havesomethingtosay (Nov 1, 2011)

Vision said:


> Okay, I understand and agree with a lot of what people have written here. Maybe the people following this thread can offer me some insight/advice in my current situation. It is long, I know. Read on at your own risk. Thanks!
> 
> I met my husband right after high school and we got married soon after. Our relationship has been a love/hate one from the start and I often felt trapped. We have two kids and we’ve been together for almost 10 years. 2years ago I cheated on him with a couple random guys. I was fully aware of what I was doing. It wasn’t an accident. It wasn’t a hiccup. It was an intentional abandonment of our relationship and all it had come to stand for. Was it the right thing to do? Of course not. It didn’t help or fix anything and I felt like garbage about making such a self-destructive decision, even though I gained confidence and strength in other ways. I would be the last one to ask for forgiveness from him or anyone else. I would, however like to find understanding for what led me to that very dark and self-destructive place and perspective on how to handle the aftermath.
> I had lived for 8 years in an emotionally abusive relationship. We fought all the time and I felt like I couldn’t ever do anything right. I think our individual problems and the flaws in our relationship were focused and amplified in our sex life. Sex itself didn’t start out as a chore, I physically enjoyed being with him and was more satisfied than most women, I’m sure. It was the emotional side that really suffered.
> ...


I'd start a new thread...... Sorry for all the problems


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

MominMayberry said:


> Entropy:
> I think that is evo pop psych nonsense, sorry to say. You left out a large part of the equation in both sexes cheating and only *assumed unfaithful women were getting pregnant. Whose impregnating them*? Plenty of married men. You also wrote that men are looked down on if their wives cheat. Women are treated even harsher when their husbands cheat. Ever heard of "If you kept him happy at home he wouldn't have gone out" implying that she is 100% to blame for his infidelity. She is looked at by society like she caused it.
> I have no idea where you came up with the conclusions that you did but implying that adultery hurts on sex more than the other is way off base no matter what theories you dig up.


Only the women get pregnant. If that is evo pop then cool beans.

My point is the the husband of the WS has to deal with the consequences. He is on the hook for support. If he knows he can challenge. If he does not he is raising another man's child. That man got off without the responsibility yet he was enjoying the sex with the WS. BS just flat loses. But men uniquely have this specific issue. No doubt women have their unique issues. Oh wait, men and women are equal but not equivalent. They are not exactly the same? 

Cheating is bad all the way around. I am pointing out that men have this unique issue.

Seemingly contradictory entities can exist and still be valid. It is not always one way or another. Some call this a point of view. But a point of view does not have to invalidate another point of view. There can be many right answers in a sea of infinite wrong answers as well.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

The Secret Lives Of Wives

Probably old information for most of you. But just an artcle about why women fin it easier to be open about thier cheating and why they feel it is safer for them to cheat.

The link also has the Confessions of a Personal trainer article with it.



> The reality is this: American women today have more opportunity to fool around than ever; when they do fool around, they're more likely to tell their friends about it, and those friends are more likely to lend them a sympathetic ear. They probably use technology to facilitate their affairs, and if they get caught, they're almost as likely to wind up in a wing chair in a marriage counselor's office as in divorce court. Finally, if they do separate from their husbands, women, especially if they're college educated, are better able to make a go of it—pay the bills, keep at least partial custody of the children, remarry if they want to—than their philandering foremothers. "It was just so ruinous for a woman to be caught in adultery in past times, you had to be really driven or motivated to do it," says Peter D. Kramer, clinical professor of psychiatry at Brown University and author of "Should You Leave?" "Now you can get away with it, there's a social role that fits you."


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## rdee30 (Sep 10, 2012)

Cheating is a cry for help. There are two reasons why couples cheat on each other. They cheat because there is no real passion or love in the realtionshp. They cheat because they are still dealing with past issues that weren't resolve before marriage. It's up to you to either find the love and passion that is missing in the relationship, or allow him/her to leave and struggle along. Marriage is not only an art, it's a life time story if you can endure that long.


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## rdee30 (Sep 10, 2012)

Havesomethingtosay said:


> I'd start a new thread...... Sorry for all the problems


Dang. You wrote a book.


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