# Annnnd I'm back



## Jay83

So some of you might remember I was posting a few months back in regards to what was happening with my marriage.

To cut a long story short I suspected her of cheating which she outright denied, turns out I was right, the affair was on and off for about 8 months. I was crushed but it had come as no surprise. My wife told me everything, and all of my fears had come to reality. By the time everything had come out we had been separated for about three months and I have been living back home with my mum and she had bought me out of our house. 

I have spoken to the OM and he believe it or not tried to play the victim. He spoke of how she broke his heart and also how she had ruined his life because she ultimately wouldn't leave me for him. 

All of this had come about because my wife couldn't let me go, and when I said it was time to move on she admitted everything that had happened, also about two other guys since we had been separated (she slept with them too). 

We started talking about how we could work our marriage out. She took full responsibility for the way she had acted and blamed no one but herself, stating that she would do what ever it takes to save our marriage and rebuild what she had broken. 

She has already done an STD check and it's come back all good. She's been making all the right noises so far. She also went to her friends and family and admitted what she had done and apologised to everyone she has hurt. When it comes to me and her she has also showed massive remorse and has also apologised which seems to be very sincere.

Now what I would like to know is has anyone else been here and come out stronger? I understand all of our scenarios are unique in there own way so not each one can reflect upon my situation 100%.

I like to think of myself as being a strong character who takes the morale high ground and thinks about the bigger picture but at the moment I feel torn. I love this woman but my god she has some repairing to do.


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## 2ntnuf

No children.

Multiple APs.


GTFO, now, while she is worried about you leaving her. 

Yeah, I know. It's the worst suggestion you could see in print. Sure, it will hurt badly. She isn't worth what you will have to put into it. If you are not still separated, you should be. Find a girlfriend during separation that appreciates you. Then, compare what it is like without her, to what it will be like during reconciliation. 

Sure there will be hysterical bonding sex with your wife. There will also be a huge amount of great sex with some woman that is new and really wants you. 

I truly think those who have stepped out of the marriage need to stay out, as hard as that is for the BS. When there are no children involved, why even put yourself through the internal questioning, constant second guessing, and sexual drop off when she realizes you haven't changed much and she is being trusted again. 

When that happens, she can go back to whatever she wants while having you to take care of her needs that an AP who doesn't take responsibility for his relationship with her, can't. 

Maybe it's just me. I certainly don't see the value in reconciliation unless she has not had sex outside the marriage, yet. I'm sure you'll get other advice that will be more along the lines of 'how to reconcile'. I just couldn't read this and 'walk away'.


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## rafaelandy

jay83,

i and many of TAM members had been in that same situation as yours. yes, we do not know 100% what you're feeling right now, but we have an idea what you're going though right now. 

whether you save your marriage or eventually leave your WW for good, THERE IS LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL. 

i'll say brace yourself, this is going to be a rough ride. when and how you'll get out of this tunnel is entirely UP TO YOU.

YOU will be the only one who will decide how you will play this out. You will be the one who must learn how to deal with this situation. 

it's confusing, it's painful...anger, love, self-blame, fear and uncertainty, etc... it's so F*CKED-UP...

but when you finally reach the end of the tunnel - YOU WILL BE RE-BORN...WISER, STRONGER, and DIFFERENT. you will have a different perspective of yourself, your life, and everything around you. 

endure the pain...many of us here survived it, and so will you.

PRAYERS did so much and helped me tremendously ease the pain...

good luck in your journey, my friend...


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## SunCMars

Before I responded I re-read your first thread. 

Here are my issues:

She is immature.

She is impulsive.

She can be manipulated by others.....she was pulled away from you by others. 

She had weak will.

She has weak character.

She has weak boundaries.

She is oversexed....not a problem if she were faithful...she wasn't. This will not change. Wait until she has children, has more problems and pressures and then goes through the MLC that most go through.

She works in a Pub.....this is the biggest of the big problems. Alcohol weakens the Patrons and the Patroness.....your wife. It is too easy to make up reasons for absences when working in Pubs. Men and women go to bars to pick up strange. 

She now has three more notches on her holster, since you separated. There may be more? 

She cannot balance a scale when weighed against virtues, likeable, values, what she brings to a marriage. Her negatives GREATLY out weigh the positives. What she brings to the bar for you to drink is polluted Sea Water...Bilge water...... filled with barnacles, scum, and blow fish...the blow fish with spikes for scales...very poison these.

She may be pretty, funny, but that is the surface SHE. The inner SHE is yet unformed, nebulous and untrustworthy. Remember, the leopardess cannot change her spots....or spotty potty. 

She deserves no R....R to the end of the alphabet....Zee Ending. Let her go. Divorce and wait a few years before Relenting.


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## 225985

Jay83 said:


> I like to think of myself as being a strong character who takes the morale high ground and thinks about the bigger picture but at the moment I feel torn.


Translation - I am too weak to leave.

Multiple OM? @2ntnuf is right. 

When you have to start assigning numbers to the OM or OW, it is time to leave.


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## Jay83

Thanks for the replies, they are all much appreciated.

I totally understand where you are all coming from, I honestly do.

Is it a **** situation? Yes. Can I work through this, yes, I believe I can. And if it doesn't work out well that's life isn't it. 

I can't honestly tell you why I love her as I do, I'm sure you have been in this position before. Since we first met we have had a unique bond and I've always looked out and protected her from a quite poisons family. I feel like I owe it to myself to try and make this work instead of cutting and running. I know what she has done is beyond awful, but for some reason I don't feel threatened (sounds ridiculous doesn't it).

She seems focused on working on us and making the marriage work. She's been honest to our friends and family to try and make a mends.

We will see though. Maybe everything that's happened this year has driven me mad after all.


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## 2ntnuf

You're not mad. You love someone she is not any more. There is probably a little denial going on. Your self-esteem may have taken a little hit. You want to believe. I've been there. I understand. I just don't want another to be deeply hurt by basically asking for it. 

If you believe you have the strength, and you may I don't know you, then go for it. It's all up to you. 

Just do yourself the favor of knowing it's likely not possible to get what you have in mind. Try to get some distance between your dreams and reality. Don't believe without verifying. 

Follow the best here that know how to reconcile, but don't lose yourself in the process by becoming a patsy. 

Good luck.


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## Malaise

Jay83 said:


> Thanks for the replies, they are all much appreciated.
> 
> I totally understand where you are all coming from, I honestly do.
> 
> Is it a **** situation? Yes. Can I work through this, yes, I believe I can. And if it doesn't work out well that's life isn't it.
> 
> I can't honestly tell you why I love her as I do, I'm sure you have been in this position before.* Since we first met we have had a unique bond *and I've always looked out and protected her from a quite poisons family. I feel like I owe it to myself to try and make this work instead of cutting and running. I know what she has done is beyond awful, but for some reason I don't feel threatened (sounds ridiculous doesn't it).
> 
> She seems focused on working on us and making the marriage work. She's been honest to our friends and family to try and make a mends.
> 
> We will see though. Maybe everything that's happened this year has driven me mad after all.


You had a bond. She didn't.


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## Jay83

So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


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## SunCMars

Jay83 said:


> For some reason I don't feel threatened (sounds ridiculous doesn't it).


The only plus that rises above the pus.

You have thick skin and low expectations. Hope this is enough.

Good luck...Sorry your are Here.....and [that] you do not Hear.


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## Yosemite

If it was one guy, then maybe there's a chance at reconciliation.

But multiple partners?

She's made her intentions clear. You know what she's made of.

Remorse aint gonna change that. 

You'll always be sleeping with one eye open. 

That's no way to live.


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## Lostinthought61

Jay, you have to do what is best for you...in the end its your life not ours.


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## Yosemite

Xenote said:


> Jay, you have to do what is best for you...in the end its your life not ours.


That's not the point. In fact what you wrote is completely irrelevant. 

Of course it's his life, and of course he should do what's best for him.

The problem is he doesn't KNOW what's best for him that's why he's seeking advice.


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## turnera

Here's what I would do: Continue living apart, but do go out with her every couple of weeks. Do not give her ANY money. Do arrange for easy tracking of her cell phone, a GPS on her car or phone so you always know where she is, demand that she visit a counselor every single month if not more often and that you get to visit every three or four times so you can see if she's making any real progress (i.e. growing up), have her go to a lawyer and draw up a post-nup agreement that you both sign so that if you DO get back together and you DO catch her cheating again, she walks away with nothing. Oh, and of course, if she even has lunch with another man, let alone screws one, you are done.

IF she is willing to keep all this up for at least the next 12 months, then you can reassess then if you want to consider moving back in with her. Please trust me, if you don't keep separate for now, and if she can't learn to be ok by herself in that time without resorting to seeking out other men, she will never do the hard work to change. It's basic psychology. You have to give her a reason to work for it. If you just move back in, well, then, she's won. And she'll never improve.


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## Jay83

It's nice to come here and put thoughts into writing to complete strangers who won't judge and don't know us. This is why I am here. Sometimes we have to endure bad times to truly find ourselves. 

From what we have spoken about the other men it was a mix of shame and not feeling wanted/needed. I've been there and got the t-shirt with my previous long time girlfriend. It's not that I particularly wanted to cheat it just happened and guilt, remorse and whatever bad feelings seem to manifest in there own strange ways. After the first affair which she broke off she thought that if I ever found out then that would be it for us. She's made a massive mistake, we all do ( maybe not as big as this though to be honest). 

I am partly responsible in this for neglecting her for so long, even though this does not mean that she was justified for what she has done. 

I am not moving back in straight away, not a chance. She has said about counselling herself to sort her own mind out. As for now we are dating again, taking it slowly. When it comes to the GPRS tracking etc I'm not into that, I need to know that she can do this on her own and without me knowing her every move, I think that could lead down the wrong road.

I feel that sometimes people don;t think about what the cheater is having to go through, it's tough living with the guilt and shame so I feel you have to stand by each other instead of looking down on her and what she has done.


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## free2beme14

Speaking as someone who let XH move back in after 3 months living apart, I can say now that it takes more to time to see if they have really changed. I was given that advice here, but did not listen. Now after 6 months the "true colors" are showing again and things are going back to how they were before. I know how hard it is to let go, I'm a "fixer" by nature and want to fix things for him. Heck I even found myself applying for jobs for him a few weeks ago because he wouldn't do it for himself, then I realized just how crazy that is. Would he do the same for me? Nope. Does he hate his current job? Yes, but he is not willing to do the work to change it, he just wants to complain about it to me and stress me out so that I do something to change it. 

I agree with the comments, if there is more than 1 OM, its time to end it. You deserve better!


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## Jay83

This is it though, everyone of us is different and we can't all tar each other with the same brush. It's horrible to know, it really is but at the same time when it all came out I was relieved that it was just out in the open. 

I'm big enough and ugly enough to handle this situation if it ever goes south again, and if it did then I would probably find it a lot easier to move on with my life. Where our friends and family know there is no where to hide and she would stand tio lose a lot more then just our marriage.


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## turnera

You sound like you have very little self esteem or self love. What have YOU done (therapy) to fix that?


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## 2ntnuf

Listen to @turnera. She knows what she is talking about. If you don't change yourself, your wife will see the same person you were. She may not like the new man, but you will be better off for the work you do on yourself. Focus on you and let her focus on her. If you do as turnera posted with the counseling, you won't have to constantly watch. You will have time to concentrate on yourself. That is a good thing. Your wife does not want the man she cheated on. She wants someone else. Even if the new person is in your body, it's what she wants. I hope that makes sense.


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## SunCMars

Yosemite said:


> That's not the point. In fact what you wrote is completely irrelevant.
> 
> Of course it's his life, and of course he should do what's best for him.
> 
> The problem is he doesn't KNOW what's best for him that's why he's seeking advice.


Now he does.

Sarcasm aside. She is too immature to trust. 

You should strive to marry just once. Sometimes this is not a good option....now is sometimes.

His next time is where his striving will pay off....on with interest.

Eyes Open Jay. Falcons are a-flight, with eyes on your tail feathers.


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## Hopeful Cynic

Jay83 said:


> So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


And instead of supporting you and dealing with the problem like a partnership, she ran away and had affairs.

You are trying to make excuses for her and shift the blame yourself because if you make it your fault, then you have control over fixing it. Everybody likes to feel in control of things.

But the truth is that SHE is at fault, SHE is the only one who can fix HERSELF and you have absolutely no control over if she does that or not. Do you think she is even capable of it? From the way you describe her, I doubt it.


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## straightshooter

Jay,

You asked for advice. You got it, and it was obvious what you are going to do no matter what advice you got.

The saying goes you can predict future behavior by past results. Her track record is dismal and someone very astutely gave you a list of why starting with her job in a bar interacting with men constantly with alcohol involved.

Now you know she has had sex with other men while you were separated, and you are still going to try to reconcile while separated. BAD IDEA!! You two are either all in or all out. She owns the house so get out of your mum's and back into the home where at least you have a better chance of watching her everyday actions, not just when you are on dates.

You also have apparently rejected the advice to set up some kind of accountability system for her to attempt to make you feel safe. You are attempting to reconcile with a serial cheater, with no safety net in place other than TRUSTING her. How did that work out before.????

None of us know her, but we do know that many many times this sudden remorse kicks in when the grass is not greener on the other side. You do not want to be Plan B.

I am NOT telling you reconciliation is not possible. People have reconciled from much worse than you have encountered and people divorce over a one night stand.

But you appear to be determined to go into this blindly, with no snooping, no accountability , and you are playing Russian roulette.
That's your call. You will bear the consequences.

My suggestion is to make her prove how much she wants you back
(1) tell her you want to move back in
(2) see if she voluntarily does things to make herself a safe partner
(3) see how you feel wondering where she is while you are at home

And lastly, you might consider telling her BEFORE all of this plays itself out that you want a polygraph test to make sure there are not more men that you do not know about. She had sex with two while separated. My guess is she may still have active accounts on dating sites, or other men still have her contact information, some of which you have no clue about.

Do you know who these other men are???? You could go to her work and be sitting next to one of them???

What I am telling you is that there is a lot that you do not know and apparently have no interest in really finding out. That is not a good predictor of success.

This forum will be here if you get whacked again. Good luck. Unfortunately, if you go full steam ahead here with blind trust you may need it


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## *Deidre*

Jay83 said:


> So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


I think that there actually might be hope for you two. I'm not an advocate of divorce, unless there is cheating. But, she took the initiative and apologized to everyone, including you and is taking responsibility for her actions. That is more than most of the cheaters I've read about on here, stories told by the betrayed spouses. So, there might be hope for you both, but it will be a long road. Praying for you both.


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## Evinrude58

SunCMars said:


> Before I responded I re-read your first thread.
> 
> Here are my issues:
> 
> She is immature.
> 
> She is impulsive.
> 
> She can be manipulated by others.....she was pulled away from you by others.
> 
> She had weak will.
> 
> She has weak character.
> 
> She has weak boundaries.
> 
> She is oversexed....not a problem if she were faithful...she wasn't. This will not change. Wait until she has children, has more problems and pressures and then goes through the MLC that most go through.
> 
> She works in a Pub.....this is the biggest of the big problems. Alcohol weakens the Patrons and the Patroness.....your wife. It is too easy to make up reasons for absences when working in Pubs. Men and women go to bars to pick up strange.
> 
> She now has three more notches on her holster, since you separated. There may be more?
> 
> She cannot balance a scale when weighed against virtues, likeable, values, what she brings to a marriage. Her negatives GREATLY out weigh the positives. What she brings to the bar for you to drink is polluted Sea Water...Bilge water...... filled with barnacles, scum, and blow fish...the blow fish with spikes for scales...very poison these.
> 
> She may be pretty, funny, but that is the surface SHE. The inner SHE is yet unformed, nebulous and untrustworthy. Remember, the leopardess cannot change her spots....or spotty potty.
> 
> She deserves no R....R to the end of the alphabet....Zee Ending. Let her go. Divorce and wait a few years before Relenting.





SunCMars: You type some crazy stuff sometimes, yet others you are spot-on right, concise, and pretty darned wise.
This is one of those times!

Very well put. BRAVO!


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## Evinrude58

My take:

She's putting on a big-arse show for all your relatives because life is pretty darned difficult without ol' Jaybird's support; whether it be financial, emotional, or security-wise, and she wants it back. Does she want YOU back? I don't know.
You have a wife that moved out and had sex with 3 guys admittedly. There's likely more.

I vote for hell no, don't take her back. Did I read correctly that she's working at a bar now? Man, you're a glutton for punishment.
Do yourself a favor and detach. That love you have for your cheating wife is your own worst enemy. I know, because I had the same thing. I'm past it now, and I can tell you that in hindsight, I should have asked her to leave about 4 days sooner, and never EVER looked back. 

You think your wife is remorseful. If she is, there's a chance and I wish you all the luck in the world.

If she's NOT, and just wants her wallet and security back, she will break your heart again. You just need to find out which it REALLY is, not what you WANT to believe. I really just don't trust her. But what's wrong is that YOU shouldn't trust her.


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## Jay83

Once again thanks for everyone's input.

To address a few questions that have been raised.

The whole self love/esteem issue. Believe me that is not the case, I can see how that comes across though. Maybe I am a little too nice for my own good in this situation. I'm very confident, when we were separated I felt flattered even though I never took up on any of those opportunities. I didn't think it would be fair on any of them considering I was just coming out of a marriage at the time.

In regards to money she earns more than me, and she's also always worked in her parents pub (bar and pub are very different compared to what's in the UK to the US). That's where I met her. She hardly drinks where she's the manager and needs to be on call in case something happens. 

We have been together for over five years, and up until this year I never suspected her to be doing anything behind my back. It wasn't until I had that "gut" feeling and it was obvious she was pulling away from me emotionally. And for the first time in our relationship others at the pub (friends) also noticed her behaviour. 

To be honest everyone was shocked when they found out, they had always seen how a tight couple we were.


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## BobSimmons

So you don't own the property. She can kick you out on your a** whenever she wants.

Yep good deal.


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## Jay83

My name is still on the property, that can't happen unless I fully come off the deeds. 

I have been given the money which if and when I move back in I will be fully backing myself with a solicitor.


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## bandit.45

Divorce and move on. You are setting yourself up.


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## Vulcan2013

Look, you want you work it out, and you think you and your WW are"different". You aren't. 

Bad news - early marriage, serial cheater, family of origin issues (poisonous family), she's still enmeshed with her family (on the job), lied to you for months. No children. Only way this works out is you stay away and go no contact. 

I put 21 years into a really toxic marriage. All the signs were there, but I was different. If you have children with her, she'll screw them up, bringing all her family's issues with her. 

Run, seriously. What you advise a friend with this same set of facts?


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## Betrayedone

Pull the band aid off quickly and don't look back. The longer you continue down your current path the more pain and drama you will endure and likely result in the same bad outcome.


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## She'sStillGotIt

Jay83 said:


> So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


So.

Apparently her cheating is really all YOUR fault.

Got it.

I guess you'd better PRAY to never, ever get felled by an illness or have an accident and break some bones, or become depressed due to the death of someone close to you, etc. etc. etc., because apparently, any lapse of ability to entertain her in the bedroom gives her the right to cheat on you.

According to you.

Better gear up to eat a lifetime of sh*t sandwiches because they'll ALWAYS be on the menu.


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## Evinrude58

What you want to happen with this and what is so very likely GOING to happen are two different things. Your wife detached enough to bang multiple guys and move out. Your situation with living conditions and her job are terrible given her tendency to wander.
YOU MET HER IN THE PUB. You don't think she talks to other men there? Not necessarily a problem if you had a strong marriage. You don't. ANd working in a pub won't make it better.

Look at the facts. Make your judgement on whether to move on or go back based on FACTS. If your emotions are involved, they will totally screw your future up. Mr. Spock the hell out of this situation.


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## GusPolinski

2ntnuf said:


> No children.
> 
> Multiple APs.
> 
> GTFO, now, while she is worried about you leaving her.


Yep.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

Jay83 said:


> So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


Sooo... she decided to make babies w/ someone else?

GTFO now.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## malpe

Respect yourself, you know what has to be done.


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## VladDracul

Jay83 said:


> she admitted everything that had happened, also about two other guys since we had been separated (she slept with them too).












*Of course I'm remorseful about sleeping with the guys. Can't you tell.*


----


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## Jay83

So I thought I would give an update on my situation.

So far so good, communication has been open and my wife an I have spoken about what happened, why it happened and our future together. She's taken the right actions in regards to getting our marriage getting back on track which is severing all communications with those she messed about with (even though she done this a while back) still been open and honest to friends and family. She is patient with me when I have a bad turn, and has shouldered the blame in regards to what she has done (obviously).

I understand a lot of peoples opinions on here but for once I wanted to show that sometimes a marriage can work through tough times and I am sure there will plenty more to come in our future... but that's marriage, no one said it was going to be easy. And if she does anything like this again then I will walk away with me head held high knowing at least I have tried to fix our marriage instead of walking away. 

: )


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## *Deidre*

Jay83 said:


> So I thought I would give an update on my situation.
> 
> So far so good, communication has been open and my wife an I have spoken about what happened, why it happened and our future together. She's taken the right actions in regards to getting our marriage getting back on track which is severing all communications with those she messed about with (even though she done this a while back) still been open and honest to friends and family. She is patient with me when I have a bad turn, and has shouldered the blame in regards to what she has done (obviously).
> 
> I understand a lot of peoples opinions on here but for once I wanted to show that sometimes a marriage can work through tough times and I am sure there will plenty more to come in our future... but that's marriage, no one said it was going to be easy. And if she does anything like this again then I will walk away with me head held high knowing at least I have tried to fix our marriage instead of walking away.
> 
> : )


The important thing is you feel she is remorseful and willing to work on the marriage. And you sound like you are staying for the right reasons, I hope she stays true to you and the marriage. Best wishes, and good luck with this.


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## Jay83

*Deidre* said:


> The important thing is you feel she is remorseful and willing to work on the marriage. And you sound like you are staying for the right reasons, I hope she stays true to you and the marriage. Best wishes, and good luck with this.


Thank you : )


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## 2ntnuf

No matter what any of us think, we don't have to live your life. Therefore, with all that was posted, you must at last, choose your own path. I think most of us have the BS in mind when we post harshly. A lifetime of pain and doubt can be worse than starting over, or being alone. Good luck and I hope to never see a post that you are dealing with infidelity, separation and divorce, or another man's children. 

I really do only wish you the best, happiest life possible.


----------



## JohnA

You should read both the threads and posts of @drifting on. @Wazza and @Ckrome1800 to start. You should check @Uptown posts as well. While he posts on BPD almost entiterly sometimes he will discuss cluster B personalities. You will note there some carry over due to her FOO issues. At a guess part of adultery rampage (yes rampage) was due to the reaction to you withdrawing combined with FOO issues. You do know part of this rampage was anchored in the need to hurt you? She will discussed feelings of despair, but yea she wanted you to experience your pain! how do you deal with this if it isn't even on the table? has she admitted this aspect?

Understand that saying "well FOO issues" means nothing when it comes to reconciling. Instead, the question is "how have addressed the issue to make the marriage safe"!

Finally have you two been intimate? If so stop, tell her it only clouds the issues - it does not mean a loss of interest. I told my nephews and nieces ages ago sex is like putting a huge dab of crazy glue between your fingers, letting it cure overnight, then ripping the fingers apart. More then one later told me I was right. Intimacy bounds two people together the way nothing else, except children, will. It is amazing, understand sex is only a part of intimacy.


----------



## JohnA

Oh read @LosingHim and @E1 threads to see remorse in a WS. A lot of E1 posts are on her husbands thread. http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/52974-reconciliation.html


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## SunCMars

Jay83 said:


> So I thought I would give an update on my situation.
> 
> I understand a lot of peoples opinions on here but for once I wanted to show that sometimes a marriage can work through tough times and I am sure there will plenty more to come in our future... but that's marriage, no one said it was going to be easy. And if she does anything like this again then I will walk away with me head held high knowing at least I have tried to fix our marriage instead of walking away.


The Mature Male human body holds ~11 pints of life-giving blood. 

All yours' has been let out...and it's at your feet.

Yet, you are still standing and smiling.. 

*Who are we to hack down such a Pale Rider?
*
Sayeth the Pale Riding Preacher: "Well, if you're waitin' for a woman to make up her mind, you may have a long wait". 

Live long and endure....outlast the rascals.


----------



## Jay83

Thanks for the replies.

I know to some I may seem a little crazy or a push over, I don't believe this to be the case at all. My wife is taking steps in the right direction to repairing herself. Talking to close friends about why she did it and dealing with her remorse. I'm not the kind of guy to bully or throw it in her face, I just listen to what she has to say and then respond calmly and be thoughtfully. I might be going through a ton of grief but so is she. A marriage can't be repaired by one person playing the victim and the others feelings get ignored because they were in the wrong.


----------



## happy as a clam

Jay83 said:


> Since we first met we have had a unique bond...


The thing is, you really haven't. She has blown that bond to smithereens multiple times. Nothing unique about someone who chooses to stray from the marriage. The story is as old as time...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral

Similar situation many years ago. Bottom line, it lasted two years more. She didn't cheat but that true love feeling from me just drifted away. The special just disappeared.

Good luck.


----------



## GusPolinski

Jay83 said:


> So I thought I would give an update on my situation.
> 
> So far so good, communication has been open and my wife an I have spoken about what happened, why it happened and our future together. She's taken the right actions in regards to getting our marriage getting back on track which is severing all communications with those she messed about with (even though she done this a while back) still been open and honest to friends and family. She is patient with me when I have a bad turn, and has shouldered the blame in regards to what she has done (obviously).
> 
> I understand a lot of peoples opinions on here but for once I wanted to show that sometimes a marriage can work through tough times and I am sure there will plenty more to come in our future... but that's marriage, no one said it was going to be easy. And *if she does anything like this again then I will walk away* with me head held high knowing at least I have tried to fix our marriage instead of walking away.
> 
> : )


Really?

How can you be sure?

Are you sure you won't forgive her just one more time?

And then another?

And another?

And another...

...?

Seriously, what's her incentive to stop cheating at this point?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## GusPolinski

happy as a clam said:


> The thing is, you really haven't. She has blown that bond to smithereens multiple times. Nothing unique about someone who chooses to stray from the marriage. The story is as old as time...


I always laugh at the "What we have is unique/special blah blah blah puppies and kittens and cotton candy-scented rainbow-colored unicorn farts..." bullsh*t lines.

Can't have been too special to her, right? Otherwise she might have guarded her marriage instead of allowing herself to drift into serial waywardness.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## 2ntnuf

GusPolinski said:


> Really?
> 
> How can you be sure?
> 
> Are you sure you won't forgive her just one more time?
> 
> And then another?
> 
> And another?
> 
> And another...
> 
> ...?
> 
> *Seriously, what's her incentive to stop cheating at this point?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_



Let's take a look at the other side. If he sits and talks with her, opens up his soul. If he admits to being insensitive at times and angry at times to the point of hollering at her. If he was interested in his hobbies or work and didn't spend enough time just with her and admits that. Honestly, I don't see how it turns out different. 

He'd have to have been a monster for that to work. He'd have to have beaten her or raped her for that to work. 

Either way a BS goes, the end is the same. If she doesn't want to be with you, that's it. Nicing her back or being harsh, doesn't work. It's all up to her. 

You have to hope she is interested enough to try again. The issue really is, what does she want? Is she determined? Will she be strong enough when you again make some mistakes to stop herself from straying and hurting you again? Are you strong enough to handle the crushing blows of infidelity, once again? 

I am not. You are, or you have tricked yourself into believing you are. I hope you are strong enough, Jay83.


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## GusPolinski

2ntnuf said:


> Let's take a look at the other side. If he sits and talks with her, opens up his soul. If he admits to being insensitive at times and angry at times to the point of hollering at her. If he was interested in his hobbies or work and didn't spend enough time just with her and admits that. Honestly, I don't see how it turns out different.
> 
> He'd have to have been a monster for that to work. He'd have to have beaten her or raped her for that to work.
> 
> Either way a BS goes, the end is the same. If she doesn't want to be with you, that's it. Nicing her back or being harsh, doesn't work. It's all up to her.
> 
> You have to hope she is interested enough to try again. The issue really is, what does she want? Is she determined? Will she be strong enough when you again make some mistakes to stop herself from straying and hurting you again? Are you strong enough to handle the crushing blows of infidelity, once again?
> 
> I am not. You are, or you have tricked yourself into believing you are. I hope you are strong enough, Jay83.


There's no point in any of that.

She's a serial wayward.

_Serial.

Wayward._

She's made what she wants pretty clear.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## phillybeffandswiss

Jay83 said:


> So to give you a little background on where it started going wrong. We had been starting to try for a family... and it wasn't happening. Turns out it was down to me and IVF was the only way forward. It killed me honestly, I felt like a failure. My wife tried her best to reassure me and make me feel better but I went into a bit of a depression about it and neglected my wife emotional and sexually for about six months. It's not that I didn't love her or find her attractive I had just completely lost my mojo. She would try and try to initiate sex but when we did I couldn't finish or keep it up. I felt terrible about it, I didn't want to face the problem either. It got to the point that I had killed her confidence. We have spoke about this since and I have apologised but she still takes responsibility for it all.


So, if your wife couldn't carry babies to term it would be her fault you cheated? No. If she became depressed and neglected you it would be her fault you cheated? No. If she gave you duty sex and was uninterested it would be her fault you cheated? No. 

Yes, you should have been a better husband, but this is biological it isn't about you being drunk, doing drugs or other self harming things which affected your ability to reproduce. You became depressed and neither of you handled it correctly. Still, the answer was to go get counseling not have affairs. 

Good luck.


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> So, if your wife couldn't carry babies to term it would be her fault you cheated? No. If she became depressed and neglected you it would be her fault you cheated? No. If she gave you duty sex and was uninterested it would be her fault you cheated? No.
> 
> Yes, you should have been a better husband, but this is biological it isn't about you being drunk, doing drugs or other self harming things which affected your ability to reproduce. You became depressed and neither of you handled it correctly. Still, the answer was to go get counseling not have affairs.
> 
> Good luck.


She's a woman. The rules are slightly different. If they weren't, the answers to those questions would be a resounding "Yes"!


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Society emasculates a man who can't reproduce. This is a social stigma which isn't about any rules or being slightly different.


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Society emasculates a man who can't reproduce. This is a social stigma which isn't about any rules or being slightly different.


Societal rules state that it is his fault. Social rules state that he is less than a man if he can't reproduce. Life is all about social rules and how we comply with them. Those rules change as time passes, but they are considered more valid than the old rules. It's societal rules that have folks trying to do what is necessary to get married, buy a house, three cars, have two and a half children, a dog, etc. 

Societal rules change and laws addressing them follow.


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## Jay83

To be honest she has always been a great wife up until the affair lol. She always put us first and done everything she could for me. And I got depressed in many ways and I wasn't horrible to my wife but I shut her out physically and emotionally for quite a while. The more she tried the more I pushed her away, and this is my own opinion on my situation not hers. She isn't willing to except that I was not the best husband for quite a while and solely blames herself for what she did. 

Am I finding it hard with the images of her doing what she did? Of course I am, it's like a torture, but I can't keep holding on to these and it's like my own personal challenge to get over this and look at the bigger picture. Do I think she will cheat again? Who knows, I can not predict the future neither can I control it. She's struggling herself with what she has done and is trying her best to comfort me by communicating how we both feel without arguing. She knows that if she ever done that again I will be gone, no more chances if she ever pulls anything like this again.


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## 2ntnuf

Jay,

Do you believe that pretty much anyone you would have been married to would have cheated, if all other circumstances were the same? 

She could have been decent with you and still went out and slept with other men. It is best not to show that you don't want your husband or wife, if you don't want to get caught. I don't fully buy that she was good to you up until the divorce. Maybe I've forgotten that it was a ONS? Don't remember.


----------



## Jay83

ONS? Sorry I'm still catching up with the abbreviations on here, lol. Oh was it a one night stand? No. The main affair that led to us separating was on and off for 8 months. The others she was seeing when we split up, each one lasted a few weeks each. The first one she ended when he wanted an actual relationship and she didn't want that so broke it off with him and that's when he started to threaten to tell me... well he was doing that each time throughout the affair. It sucks it honestly does, I never thought that she would do this to us. 

No I don't believe that who ever I was married too would have cheated, I know there are a lot that wouldn't. What bugs me is that all of this seems far to common now. Since this has all come out the amount of men and women that I know that have opened up to me and said they or there other half have had affairs. It's all too easy now I guess. I still have thoughts of "what am I doing here" after everything she has done but then the way she's trying her best to make things right count for a lot in my book. What bothers me are all of the guys are so below her, they are all basically ugly (I know I am meant to say that but they are). It makes me think how desperate for attention she must have been, especially whilst we were separated the guys then really were little hood rats. It's hard for me to understand why she was doing this apart from she felt lonely and **** after what she had done and wanted to feel needed and desired.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> Societal rules state that it is his fault. Social rules state that he is less than a man if he can't reproduce. Life is all about social rules and how we comply with them. Those rules change as time passes, but they are considered more valid than the old rules. It's societal rules that have folks trying to do what is necessary to get married, buy a house, three cars, have two and a half children, a dog, etc.
> 
> Societal rules change and laws addressing them follow.


Millions of people do not follow these standards so, we will disagree. These aren't laws and rules, they are choices. We call them "rules" to further our own opinions and separate ourselves from each other.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

Jay83 said:


> ONS? Sorry I'm still catching up with the abbreviations on here, lol. Oh was it a one night stand? No. The main affair that led to us separating was on and off for 8 months. The others she was seeing when we split up, each one lasted a few weeks each. The first one she ended when he wanted an actual relationship and she didn't want that so broke it off with him and that's when he started to threaten to tell me... well he was doing that each time throughout the affair. It sucks it honestly does, I never thought that she would do this to us.
> 
> No I don't believe that who ever I was married too would have cheated, I know there are a lot that wouldn't. What bugs me is that all of this seems far to common now. Since this has all come out the amount of men and women that I know that have opened up to me and said they or there other half have had affairs. It's all too easy now I guess. I still have thoughts of "what am I doing here" after everything she has done but then the way she's trying her best to make things right count for a lot in my book. What bothers me are all of the guys are so below her, they are all basically ugly (I know I am meant to say that but they are). It makes me think how desperate for attention she must have been, especially whilst we were separated the guys then really were little hood rats. It's hard for me to understand why she was doing this apart from she felt lonely and **** after what she had done and wanted to feel needed and desired.


Go get counseling and do marriage counseling because you are already blaming yourself and the other men for her choices. She CHOSE to go after "ugly" men and hood rats. If you keep picking hood rats, it isn't about being "desperate for attention," it is what she likes and they are a different type from you.


----------



## 2ntnuf

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Millions of people do not follow these standards so, *we will disagree*. These aren't laws and rules, they are choices. We call them "rules" to further our own opinions and separate ourselves from each other.


I guess so. I don't believe every child that plays on the team deserves a trophy, either. I think they all deserve a team picture and the top players deserve the trophies. It's what happens in adult life.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss

2ntnuf said:


> I guess so. I don't believe every child that plays on the team deserves a trophy, either. I think they all deserve a team picture and the top players deserve the trophies. It's what happens in adult life.


You were raised in a different time. Unfortunately for my kids, I was as well and they are better for it IMO. Same applies to this situation. Kudos for trying hard is not enough in a marriage. The Kudos come after a year or so of trying, including the ups and downs, not just the current appeasement and hysterical bonding.


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## arbitrator

*You've indicated that you talked to the POSOM!

Did you ever bother talking to his W?*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jay83

arbitrator said:


> *You've indicated that you talked to the POSOM!
> 
> Did you ever bother talking to his W?*
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


None of them had partners, which was a shame. It would have been good to expose them too.


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## Jay83

As I have said on hear before, not every marriage is the same and I am not blaming myself or anyone else for the affair, it was her choice to go down that route. But maybe looking at my own faults really isn't a bad thing, it helps me grow as a man and husband. 

If she wasn't making the effort and she only blames herself in all of this then I would not have bothered. Look if this happens again then it would be easier for me to walk away knowing i tried my best to fix the marriage.


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## phillybeffandswiss

Yes, we all know every marriage is different. I see your words, we will disagree on the blame shifting. I didn't say you have no culpability and to not fix your problems. I said it takes time and there needs to be consequences despite her "effort."


----------



## Jay83

phillybeffandswiss said:


> Yes, we all know every marriage is different. I see your words, we will disagree on the blame shifting. I didn't say you have no culpability and to not fix your problems. I said it takes time and there needs to be consequences despite her "effort."


Of course, something this big (in our lives anyway) doesn't happen without there being consequences.


----------



## arbitrator

Jay83 said:


> None of them had partners, which was a shame. It would have been good to expose them too.


*Not really pressing as much as I wanted some clarification on that! Thanks!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Sephirox

There is the fact that she has multiple AP's, however you do state that she's expressing massive remorse, something BS's don't typically get from their WS's, and there are situations where it takes a massive f'ed up situation like this to wake her out of her fog, and if she is truly out of the fog and showing remorse, there is a good chance at reconciliation, but do realize that this would take the both of you, so you have to ask yourself if you can live with the betrayal or not and move from there.


----------



## TaDor

The multiple MPs are bad. Even when I had just kicked my WW out and had access to her accounts - a toxic friend was trying to set her up with another GUY. WW said "No"... 

No children... okay, so what happens when she gets preggers from someone?


----------



## Jay83

So, after being quiet for a while (but still reading through the threads of course) I'm back to square one.

As I said on previous posts that one more breach of the trust in our marriage would end it I have to stay true to my word. This past Saturday I asked to borrow her phone to call mine as I couldn't find it. She refused to let me borrow her phone and when I confronted her about it she went crazy, screaming at me to **** off and saying "I've had enough of this" which confused me because since we have been back together I have not asked to look at any of her social media accounts or her phone. Anyway, I started to lose my temper (which I never even lost on D-day or anytime after that) with her over this and demanded to see her phone as she was acting guilty and defensive and she ends up locking herself in the bathroom with her phone. After about 30 seconds she came out and handed me her phone and said here you go then but it still had the lock on it and she still refused to unlock the phone. After this all of my frustration came out and I told her that she's a scumbag for what she has done to me this past year. She's offended that I called her a scumbag and tries to turn the situation around on me saying that this is pointless because I'll never trust her again and all I do is bring up the affair, which isn't true at all. 

So here we are, splitting up again and this time for good. I tried my hardest to work through the problems and also understand my wife's side of the affair. All I can say is that I tried, and I am gutted. I truly believe she has a problem, funnily enough this past month her mum left her step dad for another man without any remorse, this man single handily saved their family from the gutter and that's how she repays them. 

I'm now sitting here in dread at the thought of how hard this is going to be. I won't lie I'm scared, I have been through so much heart ache and stress this year it feels like my mind and body are ready to give up. So much for loyalty in marriage. You look after someone, care, provide and give everything you have to them and this is what you get in return.


----------



## Satya

Well, I can understand your frustration, but you should have stayed totally calm.

This would have kept her as the unreasonable person. Now she will use your own temper and reaction as an excuse. 

Nevertheless, it is done. 

She definitely was hiding something from you that was inappropriate. Her immediate reaction and then the bathroom episode says it all. She was scrambling to hide something. 

Else, she would have offered up her phone in a New York minute.

180, detach, all your energy shifts to you now. Consider it valuable knowledge that now gives you the power to finally become unstuck.


----------



## Sparta

OP you are done with her right.?! Buddy she's got no respect for you. Time to throw in the towel... she's just a tramp that's what she wants to be. why she wanted you back I don't know probably out of guilt but now you know what she really is.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Malaise

Handing you the phone locked was a F-you gesture.

I guess she wasn't trying all too hard to fix the marriage.


----------



## Jay83

No it's done now, no coming back from this. Her excuse about the phone was that she had been speaking to a friend about me and her that she didn't want me to see.

I feel gutted and broken, I gave her the chance to show me that we can fix this this marriage and trust, she just couldn't help herself. I mean the writing was on the wall from the beginning. After D-Day she said she would do anything to fix us and the other guy she was seeing was still at my house that following week. This is the guy that on the following Friday turned up at mine when he found out I was home and threatened me with a metal pole... well him and his mate. 

What a mess, and no she has no respect for me or herself.


----------



## Openminded

I know it hurts but be grateful it happened now and not much later into R. Now you can go on with your life instead of wasting decades (BTDT).


----------



## bandit.45

Go see a solicitor and get the ball rolling on divorce. Your wife is a serial cheater, most likely inherited from her mother. She will never change. Ask her to move out, and this time don't cave when she turns on the tear factory. She's not one damn bit sorry for what she has done.


----------



## CuriousBlue

Openminded said:


> I know it hurts but be grateful it happened now and not much later into R. Now you can go on with your life instead of wasting decades (BTDT).


ditto


----------



## JohnA

Keep owning your own issues. Your thoughts where spot on about issues vs adultery. They are different issues. Adultery is a horrible choice in reaction to an emotional trauma. An alcoholic will drink, a serial adulator will commit adultery. Just as a relationship cannot survive alcoholism a marriage cannot survive adultery. 

Never let your issues back into your future relationships. That is your take away.


----------



## Tatsuhiko

Frankly I can never grasp the "Why can't you trust me?!" attitude that some WS's have after repeated lies and betrayals. They're all indignant about it. Seriously? 

Maybe one day when she grows up she'll be a safe partner for someone. In the meantime, you can go on to a fruitful relationship with an adult.


----------



## JohnA

One other thought: if she told you the truth about the why she hide her phone, what was she saying to her friend she couldn't say to you? How is it possible to have a good marriage if she cannot discuss hard issues with you? So either way, new OM or not engaging you with an issue means she is not capable of marriage. 

Dollars to donuts her mother is the same way. How is her step dad doing?


----------



## Malaise

Jay83 said:


> No it's done now, no coming back from this. *Her excuse about the phone was that she had been speaking to a friend about me and her that she didn't want me to see.
> *
> I feel gutted and broken, I gave her the chance to show me that we can fix this this marriage and trust, she just couldn't help herself. I mean the writing was on the wall from the beginning. After D-Day she said she would do anything to fix us and the other guy she was seeing was still at my house that following week. This is the guy that on the following Friday turned up at mine when he found out I was home and threatened me with a metal pole... well him and his mate.
> 
> What a mess, and no she has no respect for me or herself.


Do you believe this?

Or do you think it was more of her same behavior?


----------



## Jay83

Who knows if that is the case that she was speaking to a friend and you are correct in saying that if she can not speak to me then what's the point in this marriage and I pulled that up with her.

The way she has got defensive raises a lot of red flags with me, acting like she is guilty and does in fact have something to hide like the way she was acting earlier this year when she was having the affair.

Problem is I have made a lot of effort to address and work on my own faults which I felt contribute to the situation we are in now. She did too, she was very loving and attentive, making an effort to making me feel loved and secure. Up until this past weekend when she done that with her phone, for me that is ridiculous behaviour after what has happened.

She blames the guilt she feels daily for what happened and feels worthless and undeserving of a second chance in our marriage. You can see the trouble she has daily, the problem is I have no doubt she loves me, she just can't control her impulses. 

Her step dad is in an awful place, he's 61 and now looking down the barrel of losing his life. Her mother is a vile human, the stories I hear about her leaving the children alone whilst meeting up with random men when my wife was younger is disgusting and she has a very bad relationship with my wife's to older sisters. As I mentioned it wasn't until the step dad came along and basically saved the family. Both her mum and biological father both have/had mental health issues so it's no surprise they have manifested within my wife. I always knew she had that side to her but I was always able to calm it down by showing her love and affection along with listening to her. Maybe it all became too much and she's now just snapped, that personality has come to the window and it's here to stay.

Her step dad was not supportive to me until he was left by his wife, that's how this family seem to work.

But I am letting her go, I'm not going to be mean to her but I just want to let her know that I hope she finds the happiness she craves in life. Even last night she was messaging me saying she doesn't want anyone else and she needs me in her life to protect and look after her. But I'm afraid that ship has sailed, I need to do something that I haven't done in a long time and work on myself.


----------



## Openminded

Yeah, she told the truth there -- she really does feel your job is to protect and take care of her. While she does what she pleases. 

She doesn't want a divorce so expect her to keep trying to reel you back in. It worked before so she thinks it will again. Be careful.


----------



## Lostinthought61

Unfortunately as the case may be the acorn does not fall to far from the tree. jay I hope you find happiness as well.


----------



## turnera

Jay83 said:


> I'm now sitting here in dread at the thought of how hard this is going to be. I won't lie I'm scared, I have been through so much heart ache and stress this year it feels like my mind and body are ready to give up. So much for loyalty in marriage. You look after someone, care, provide and give everything you have to them and this is what you get in return.


Instead of feeling dread, you should be feeling joy at the thought of living a life free of this bullshyte and finding a new partner who really fits you.

btw, if she really felt guilty and worthless, she would have handed you the phone and begged you to not kick her out. Look at what she did instead.


----------



## Betrayedone

Run Forest, RUN!


----------



## lifeistooshort

Hmm, who would've thunk that men who screw married women can't me counted on to protect them?

Shocking.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## JohnA

Your wife needs help. Everything you discribe are classic FOO issues. What spouses in your postion need to understand while you can hold their hands, they have to lead the way. Your answer clarifies a lot of her behavior.


----------



## Jay83

It's a shame because when she on form she's such a kind and generous person, it's just when the other side comes out it ruins it. It's horrible to think that she done the ultimate betrayal in a marriage, the guy was nothing, I was shocked when I found out who it was, 16 years older than her, ugly functioning alcoholic. I would take the piss out of her now and again by saying "if you're going to have an affair make it worth it". 

We spoke last and I told her that it's over and I'm letting her go. I want us both to be happy but that now isn't going to happen between us after everything she done. she reacted the way I thought she would by saying "I don't want you to be happy with anyone else but me" and "it takes two of us to sign the divorce papers, what if I don't sign?". 

From now on though I'm just not going to play into her little game, I said to her last night that I will move on knowing I tried and done nothing wrong in the marriage, also that she will be the one hurt when she finds out I've moved on and I'm with someone else and I'm happy. When I said that to her you could see by the look on her face that the thought of me being happy with another woman wasn't a thought she enjoyed. I don't think she takes into account that I will move on.

When we were separated she was obsessed with the fact that I was seeing someone else, even though I wasn't. I thought the best plan would be to keep my nose clean as then there couldn't be any sort of come back on me... if that makes sense? The one girl who I showed an interest in was also a mutual friend of both me and my wife, but not in anyway what you would class a good friend. She made the first move telling me that a lot of people saw that I was working to save our marriage when we were separated and she wasn't, she then told me that she thought I was good looking. We flirted and that was about it. My wife found out and hit the ****ing roof, making life for this poor girl very uncomfortable and forcing her to feel like she couldn't be friends or talk to me anymore because of the **** she was getting from my wife and her friends. 

Somehow I don't see this ending well......


----------



## Lostinthought61

Curious Jay when you allowed her back in your life after the affair did you set the ground rules on complete transparency?


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## Jay83

Yes I did, and I made it quite clear. I said it has to be me and her, and not to let anyone else get in between us. That includes friends and other men. I mean to be honest it's pretty straight forward isn't it. I don't need to baby sit a 25 year old woman telling her what is right and wrong. I can't live a life where I am constantly looking over my shoulder. I class myself as an attractive guy (sorry if that comes across arrogant), when I was separated from my wife I had many opportunities to be with other women and I didn't act on it just in case I was wrong about my wife's affairs. I also didn't want to drag someone with good intentions for me into the middle of what was happening in my marriage and hurt them. If I can resist the temptation to stray then so should she. It shouldn't be this hard.


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## TheTruthHurts

That's right. It shouldn't be that hard. I wish more BS would just break it down that way.

I think sometimes people want permission to leave. To know it's ok to take care of themselves. To feel their needs are valid and not simply selfish.

And frankly, if someone finds their relationship a constant struggle, there needn't be an affair or triggering event to realize it's ok to throw in the towel.

I've also heard people are often relieved to be told it's ok to die. My FIL, who passed away last year, worked in a Death and Dying program when he retired for a while. He lived in a hospice with aids patients, and at the end he'd hold their hands and tell them it's ok to let go. And many died right there.

So you're not dying but it's still ok to move on


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## bandit.45

She has no intention of being honest and open with you. She has no intention of stopping her cheating behaviors. This woman has no boundaries. You are the only good, solid thing in her life and she is scared to death of losing her anchor. But you have to cut her loose and let her drift out on her own. You have been chained to her for too long.


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## JohnA

Jay,

I don't think you realize the impact of her childhood has had on her, and the resulting inability to sustain health marriage. You touched on many of the traits of cluster B personality types. I suspect fear of abandonment runs rampant though out her emotional health. You where her rock, your withdraw during the IV treatment set off a tidal wave. Now you are withdrawing agan (with good reason), her mother blew up yet another relationship destroying a father figure in her life. Her mother and sisters are just as broken as she is. Your description of her childhood is the number one risk factor for childhood sexual abuse, especially for her older sisters. Even if it was her sisters and not her the resulting damage to a sister overlaps into her life. 

Take the time to review @Uptown posts. Although he focuses on BPD many of the issues he raises may be present in your marrsige. 

Finally you read about meeting each others emotional needs, if she does overcome this aspect of the damage to her emotional health the result will be she will no longer require the biggest need you meet. If so, why be married to you? So yes your situation is grim. You need a therapist who deals both with marrsige issues and cluster B issues. 

Be careful, be well.


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## Jay83

I feel as though I am ready to move on with my life now. I have given everything to this woman, and she was and still is my best friend in a lot of ways. 

I was speaking to what is her now former best friend (she cut ties with her after she found out the truth, she was disgusted at her behaviour and also how much she decided to lie to everyone) and she confirmed a few things. People have lost all respect for her and gained a lot for me, not that I am bothered about having respect from anyone to be honest.

I honestly feel sorry for her, she's not going to get a decent guy, she couldn't even do that when we were separated, they were all horrible... apart from one guy who just used her for sex and then ended it when another woman came into the picture.

She will have a melt down when I move on though, she did before when we were separated, obsessed with the fact I was seeing another woman. She never took off her ring either when we were separated. She clings onto me with everything that she has when I'm ready to move on. In bed last night she was saying "I don't think you understand how much I love you, and wish I could rewind before I done any of this". 

To be honest I am looking forward to moving back in with my mum, saving money, maybe take a holiday by myself somewhere, join the gym on the neighbourhood where my mum lives and just generally look after myself and start to be a little selfish.


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## JohnA

One other point. Look at the quality of the guys she took up with. Have you heard the expression "in the end we settle for the love we believe we deserve"? She chose man of the quality she believes she deserves. 

I bet if you look closely her mom's OM lacks the same qualities as the step dad. Bye the way what is the full story of what happened in that relationship?


----------



## Jay83

JohnA said:


> Jay,
> 
> I don't think you realize the impact of her childhood has had on her, and the resulting inability to sustain health marriage. You touched on many of the traits of cluster B personality types. I suspect fear of abandonment runs rampant though out her emotional health. You where her rock, your withdraw during the IV treatment set off a tidal wave. Now you are withdrawing agan (with good reason), her mother blew up yet another relationship destroying a father figure in her life. Her mother and sisters are just as broken as she is. Your description of her childhood is the number one risk factor for childhood sexual abuse, especially for her older sisters. Even if it was her sisters and not her the resulting damage to a sister overlaps into her life.
> 
> Take the time to review @Uptown posts. Although he focuses on BPD many of the issues he raises may be present in your marrsige.
> 
> Finally you read about meeting each others emotional needs, if she does overcome this aspect of the damage to her emotional health the result will be she will no longer require the biggest need you meet. If so, why be married to you? So yes your situation is grim. You need a therapist who deals both with marrsige issues and cluster B issues.
> 
> Be careful, be well.



You really have hit the nail on the head here. And it's what I have thought for a long time. The family is fractured beyond belief. Her biological dad was an alcoholic and walked out on her when she was young only to have contact again when she was in her early teens and he had sadly been diagnosed with cancer. He passed away when she was 19, we had been dating only for about six months by then. The stories you here about them living in squalor and basically living like tramps back them is horrifying. Her older sister was actually groomed by a man when she was only young as well so your post really was spot on. Her step dad came into their lives and gave them stability and also put my wife through private school. Her mum went from being basically a slag who had nothing to middle class snob looking down on people. As I mentioned before both parents have mental health issues and all of the siblings either have had or to have hard drink and drug issues and on top of that mental health issues.


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## Jay83

JohnA said:


> One other point. Look at the quality of the guys she took up with. Have you heard the expression "in the end we settle for the love we believe we deserve"? She chose man of the quality she believes she deserves.
> 
> I bet if you look closely her mom's OM lacks the same qualities as the step dad. Bye the way what is the full story of what happened in that relationship?


He's actually better, the step dad is basically boarder line alcoholic. This new guy is ex army and a fitness freak who runs his own tiling business. She basically starting getting into her fitness and her husband wasn't to keen on it, he's 61 and quite content with his life. She started running more and doing HIT classes and that's where she met the OM. She got fed up with the drinking and etc, not that she had a bad life, her husband treated her very well, expensive holidays, nights out in London etc. What I found though was that she suddenly felt she was too good for him because she changed her lifestyle and his didn't suit her anymore. My wife and her mother share a lot of scary traits, and to be honest she needs professional help. But only she can make that decision.

I wish I could post a picture of the guys she hooked up with on here, then you would see what I mean by the guys she decided to go with.


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## Openminded

If you're still sharing a bed with her, that's not a good idea. Don't underestimate her desperation to stay in the marriage and what she might do to keep that. You represent stability and she needs that as much as she needs other men. 

When are you moving out?


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## Jay83

Yeah we are still sharing a bed at the moment, until I've got things sorted money wise I will be at home.


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## Jay83

To be honest she fits the bill for being sociopath and a narcissist. Very charming and outgoing, goes through friends like a a hot knife through butter, and then those former friends she makes them look like shes the one who's been hurt and lied about. I mean she done it to me throughout her affair. Telling people I would scream and shout at her, general lies. Also that our property is hers and I put nothing towards it. Feeling like if I want to treat myself to something then I have to ask her. If we went out I would say "I'll drive you have a drink" and she would reply "no that is fine I would rather drive I don't fancy a drink" and then tell people she always has to drive because I want to drink. If I smoked she would make a big deal out of it, telling people how bad I was for smoking and making a scene where in reality she was smoking too, just didn't tell anyone. Is majorly jealous and paranoid about me and other women, it got to the point that my friends were only people she knew. Never liked me going out without her, she would get the arse on big time. She likes the control, and that's probably why when I say I'm leaving she doesn't like it.


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## Openminded

Jay83 said:


> Yeah we are still sharing a bed at the moment, until I've got things sorted money wise I will be at home.


Being at home and being in the same bed are two different things. Sleeping on a quilt on the floor is preferable to sleeping in the same bed with someone you are leaving -- especially when that person might try all the tricks they have to get you to stay.


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## GusPolinski

Jay83 said:


> I feel as though I am ready to move on with my life now. I have given everything to this woman, and she was and still is my best friend in a lot of ways.
> 
> I was speaking to what is her now former best friend (she cut ties with her after she found out the truth, she was disgusted at her behaviour and also how much she decided to lie to everyone) and she confirmed a few things. People have lost all respect for her and gained a lot for me, not that I am bothered about having respect from anyone to be honest.
> 
> I honestly feel sorry for her, she's not going to get a decent guy, she couldn't even do that when we were separated, they were all horrible... apart from one guy who just used her for sex and then ended it when another woman came into the picture.
> 
> She will have a melt down when I move on though, she did before when we were separated, obsessed with the fact I was seeing another woman. She never took off her ring either when we were separated. She clings onto me with everything that she has when I'm ready to move on. *In bed last night she was saying "I don't think you understand how much I love you, and wish I could rewind before I done any of this". *
> 
> To be honest I am looking forward to moving back in with my mum, saving money, maybe take a holiday by myself somewhere, join the gym on the neighbourhood where my mum lives and just generally look after myself and start to be a little selfish.


"That means absolutely nothing to me given that you're still doing it."

No more sleeping in the same bed. It's over now and you're moving on -- she needs to get the message.


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## JohnA

Serious read @Uptowns past posts and links he has shared. I get the sense you are talking the talk but not walking the walk. Her background has caused her to be very good at saying the right things, She has had to develop these skills in early childhood to survive. 

Her ability to get to you is based on knowing your weakness and what you need. 

Get your money together? I though she bought you out?


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## JohnA

Her mother's actions will be her's in the future once she no longer needs you to fill the emotional needs she currently has. Her mom needed security, got it. Now she has other needs, is secure and independent of a provider of security so she drops him without looking back. Once your wife gets over her abandonment issues it will, bye thanks for the memories dude.


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## Jay83

So this weekend I have moved into the spare room to avoid her, she didn't like it but oh well.

Friday night I met a mutual friend (female) down my wifes pub, I told her that we were meeting and going on to a friends birthday at another pub as she was working and couldn't make it. She wasn't happy about us meeting but that's her problem.

We left the other pub and I was going to walk this other girl home. I popped into my wife's pub to say bye and she was acting jealous and paranoid asking me what I was up too. I told her she knows where we have been tonight and not to be silly. I left the pub and started to walk across a supermarket car park with our friend. Suddenly I heard a car come screaming towards us, I looked up and it was my wife, I thought she was going to run us over, lol. She pulled up beside us and said "what the **** is going on here" I told her that I'm walking her home to which she supplied "yeah right!" And then sped off again. The following morning she called this girl going mad at her accusing us of doing something which never happened and never would happen. Luckily this girl didn't get intimidated and held her ground against her. My wife then used that as an excuse not to come home on Saturday night.


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## Malaise

Jay83 said:


> Somehow I don't see this ending well......


Yep.


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## farsidejunky

Why did you rub your wife's nose in the fact that you were walking the other girl home?


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## Lostinthought61

Jay, 

i think your playing with fire by being upfront and honest with your soon to be exwife. for the safety of your friend and perhaps yours i would try to either stay quiet or hold off until after you are divorce. your ex-wife is a nut job.


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## TheTruthHurts

farsidejunky said:


> Why did you rub your wife's nose in the fact that you were walking the other girl home?




A little pay back. So she doubled down and went home with someone else the next night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Malaise

farsidejunky said:


> Why did you rub your wife's nose in the fact that you were walking the other girl home?


Jay

If you are trying to end this amicably, you're doing it wrong.


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## Jay83

I didn't rub her nose in it at all. She's friends with this woman too, I always make sure women get home safely, that's just me. But I'm not going to let my wife control who I can and can't see anymore, she has no right to do this. After Friday night though she showed her true craziness to her friends and to be honest they were really not impressed. Did I rock up at her night out when she didn't come home on Saturday and start interrogating her.


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## turnera

You ABSOLUTELY rubbed your wife's nose in it.


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## Jay83

turnera said:


> You ABSOLUTELY rubbed your wife's nose in it.


And how did I do that? Surely rubbing her nose in it would be me bragging about it to her? I've made it quite clear that I am no longer putting up with her double standards. I'm bored of it.


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## turnera

Jay83 said:


> And how did I do that? Surely rubbing her nose in it would be me bragging about it to her? I've made it quite clear that I am no longer putting up with her double standards. I'm bored of it.


I'm sure you are. But that has nothing to do with YOUR choices.



> So this weekend *I have moved into the spare room *to avoid her, she didn't like it but oh well.
> 
> Friday night I met a mutual friend (female) down my wifes pub, *I told her* that we were meeting and going on to a friends birthday at another pub as she was working and couldn't make it. She wasn't happy about us meeting but that's her problem.
> 
> We left the other pub and I was going to walk this other girl home.* I popped into my wife's pub to say bye and she was acting jealous* and paranoid asking me what I was up too. I told her she knows where we have been tonight and not to be silly. I left the pub and started to walk across a supermarket car park with our friend. Suddenly I heard a car come screaming towards us, I looked up and it was my wife, I thought she was going to *run us over, lol.* She pulled up beside us and said "what the **** is going on here" I told her that I'm walking her home to which she supplied "yeah right!" And then sped off again. The following morning she called this girl going mad at her accusing us of doing something which never happened and never would happen. Luckily this girl didn't get intimidated and held her ground against her. My wife then used that as an excuse not to come home on Saturday night.


So, you MOVED OUT of your bedroom - CLEAR signal that you are no longer considering yourself 'married' to her, right?

Right?

But then you almost immediately 'reported' to your NO-LONGER-MARRIED SPOUSE of your plans to 'be with' another female. 

Like the very next day, right?

and not only that, but you then WENT BACK to where your wife was working (i.e. not able to respond) and informed her - for no apparent reason since you have ALREADY moved out of your wife's bedroom and declared your 'freedom' that you would be walking this woman 'home' - and ALL WOMEN know what it means when a man walks a woman 'home.' We're not f*cking stupid. Walking someone home today means sex. It's not 1890.

Bottom line, you are FEEDING YOUR OWN EGO by doing what you did. By USING two women to do it.

In my world, that's unethical.


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## Jay83

turnera said:


> I'm sure you are. But that has nothing to do with YOUR choices.
> 
> So, you MOVED OUT of your bedroom - CLEAR signal that you are no longer considering yourself 'married' to her, right?
> 
> Right?
> 
> But then you almost immediately 'reported' to your NO-LONGER-MARRIED SPOUSE of your plans to 'be with' another female.
> 
> Like the very next day, right?
> 
> and not only that, but you then WENT BACK to where your wife was working (i.e. not able to respond) and informed her - for no apparent reason since you have ALREADY moved out of your wife's bedroom and declared your 'freedom' that you would be walking this woman 'home' - and ALL WOMEN know what it means when a man walks a woman 'home.' We're not f*cking stupid. Walking someone home today means sex. It's not 1890.
> 
> Bottom line, you are FEEDING YOUR OWN EGO by doing what you did. By USING two women to do it.
> 
> In my world, that's unethical.


No, I moved into the spare room on Sunday night, this happened on Friday, I was still sleeping in the same room as her.

So by your logic walking a woman home means that you're going to have sex with them? So not that it's just not the right thing to do? And considering I have known this woman for years and we have the same circle of friends. It's a shame that's what you think a guy does, I'm sure there are plenty of men that do that though.

Having affairs, and then breaking the trust of your husband even after he took you back after trying to practically ruin your life to cover those affairs and then to STILL go behind his back... that is unethical. Walking a friend home safely is not unethical. It's a shame that you tar all men with the same brush when it comes to situations like this.


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## Jay83

And once again I can't stress this enough, this woman is a friend of mine and my wife's. We met up to go to once again mutual friends birthday where once again friends which are both mine and my wife's were there. 

This isn't like I met up with a female friend who my wife didn't know and we went out on date, we went to another pub around the corner. We were talking about her father who has terminal cancer when walking her home, nothing more. Being male does not mean I can't be friends with the opposite sex and it doesn't mean that I can't walk them home to make sure they don't get home safely.


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## Satya

Jay, I think that the reason you're getting some pressure about your choice to tell your wife about things is that it is not the behavior of a man moving on. You don't report to your wife any longer and the level of respect you owe her is one of cordial, diplomatic, minimal information and interaction. 

By telling her everything, you are baiting her, whether you know it or not. Friends or not with this other woman, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to us if you walk women home to safety. It matters to you and should matter ONLY to you. 

Your wife's behavior is out of your control, as yours is out of hers, but you both are going to play a very repetitive, tiring, one upmanship game if you don't start living without the need for validation or revenge in any form. It'll kill your true opportunity to detach. 

You win the game by not playing.


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## Jay83

Satya said:


> Jay, I think that the reason you're getting some pressure about your choice to tell your wife about things is that it is not the behavior of a man moving on. You don't report to your wife any longer and the level of respect you owe her is one of cordial, diplomatic, minimal information and interaction.
> 
> By telling her everything, you are baiting her, whether you know it or not. Friends or not with this other woman, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter to us if you walk women home to safety. It matters to you and should matter ONLY to you.
> 
> Your wife's behavior is out of your control, as yours is out of hers, but you both are going to play a very repetitive, tiring, one upmanship game if you don't start living without the need for validation or revenge in any form. It'll kill your true opportunity to detach.
> 
> You win the game by not playing.


I can see where people are coming from but I would rather be upfront and honest whilst we live under the same roof. I have been on the receiving end of lies which are much, much worse than this and it's not nice. And this being a mutual friend it shouldn't be a problem, my wife knows that I'm not that guy who messes around, I especially wouldn't do it to a friend of mine and hers, dragging her into what already is a messy situation. No one deserves that. But it doesn't matter if I went out or not with this woman, my wife's paranoid reaction would have been the same whether I had been alone or with friends. Not that she has anything to be paranoid about, I'm not interested in revenge against her, that wouldn't make me any better than what she has put me through. No one deserves that kind of pain.


----------



## farsidejunky

Jay83 said:


> No, I moved into the spare room on Sunday night, this happened on Friday, I was still sleeping in the same room as her.
> 
> So by your logic walking a woman home means that you're going to have sex with them? So not that it's just not the right thing to do? And considering I have known this woman for years and we have the same circle of friends. It's a shame that's what you think a guy does, I'm sure there are plenty of men that do that though.
> 
> Having affairs, and then breaking the trust of your husband even after he took you back after trying to practically ruin your life to cover those affairs and then to STILL go behind his back... that is unethical. Walking a friend home safely is not unethical. It's a shame that you tar all men with the same brush when it comes to situations like this.


And you were going to show her...right?

Check the gender. It isn't just a female busting your stones.

You didn't have to pop in to your wife's pub; you chose to.


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## Jay83

I always do, if I hadn't once again there would have been an issue. I went in to collect my bag which I didn't want to take to the other bar. I can see what you're saying but if I wanted to annoy her or cause an issue there are a lot more easier ways to do it, believe me.


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## SunCMars

JohnA said:


> One other point. Look at the quality of the guys she took up with. Have you heard the expression "in the end we settle for the love we believe we deserve"? She chose man of the quality she believes she deserves.
> 
> I bet if you look closely her mom's OM lacks the same qualities as the step dad. Bye the way what is the full story of what happened in that relationship?


Wow, I like this.

Chaotic behavior that is.......dissected with the actuator organs [and rationality] laid out in an orderly manner.

Her eyes lock onto a male target, the infidelity coil gets energized, the {hate herself} trigger-points dumps the charge to ground.......she sparks troubling behavior {over and over}.

Short of disconnecting the battery or taking her to some abandoned island {no males}, what is the solution?

Give her drugs that suppress her libido........down to her ankles?
...............................................................................................................................................................................

If woman were a VERY scarce commodity, then I could see backing her to the hilt. Going to any extreme to keep her close. 

You know..keeping her warm breath on your cheek, her warm flesh abutting you full-flank. God, that is so rewarding! I shiver thinking this!

But no man in a Western country needs to share his wife...unwillingly.

She needs help.........*but Jay needs a life*. He needs an Avian Mate for life. One that he can soar with, one that follows his every move, and he hers; their forms swooping and turning in unison with every wind gust, updraft..........downdraft. Downdrafts need not be feared, when his Wing Mate has his back, his tail, and his warm rapid-beating, lusting Avian heart.


----------



## SunCMars

@JohnA 

This was no "ding" on your post. You are very insightful and astute.

My comment shifted the focus to this: "Just how far does a BS have to bend over....to forgive a wayward spouse?

To what end, and to what level of humiliation? What is the success rate? In General, in Private... Ryan?

For a Clinical Psychologist [I am not], the goal is to take patients to a [more] safe and comfortable state of mind; to protect them from themselves and from predatory, others. That [John] sounds like your goal, here.

The BS [Jay83] needs a loving spouse. One that he can trust with his heart, his manhood, and HIS LIFE on the Earth.......such a short time that it is, Eh?


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## Jay83

SunCMars said:


> Wow, I like this.
> 
> Chaotic behavior that is.......dissected with the actuator organs [and rationality] laid out in an orderly manner.
> 
> Her eyes lock onto a male target, the infidelity coil gets energized, the {hate herself} trigger-points dumps the charge to ground.......she sparks troubling behavior {over and over}.
> 
> Short of disconnecting the battery or taking her to some abandoned island {no males}, what is the solution?
> 
> Give her drugs that suppress her libido........down to her ankles?
> ...............................................................................................................................................................................
> 
> If woman were a VERY scarce commodity, then I could see backing her to the hilt. Going to any extreme to keep her close.
> 
> You know..keeping her warm breath on your cheek, her warm flesh abutting you full-flank. God, that is so rewarding! I shiver thinking this!
> 
> But no man in a Western country needs to share his wife...unwillingly.
> 
> She needs help.........*but Jay needs a life*. He needs an Avian Mate for life. One that he can soar with, one that follows his every move, and he hers; their forms swooping and turning in unison with every wind gust, updraft..........downdraft. Downdrafts need not be feared, when his Wing Mate has his back, his tail, and his warm rapid-beating, lusting Avian heart.


I like your different outlook to what a relationship should be, and you are right. From day one I have tried to be supporting to her and this situation when it should of been her matching my support for each other.

Why should I be the one to still suffer through this and not live my life? She doesn't care and we are directly back to double standards in our relationship. I want to take my life back and to be honest not give a **** about what she thinks about what I am doing...she lost that right when she decided to sleep with four men behind my back.


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## BetrayedDad

Jay83 said:


> she lost that right when she decided to sleep with four men behind my back.


If this is how you feel, then MAN UP and FILE THE DAMN DIVORCE already.

No one's saying your not in the right but dragging this out is just weak and pathetic.

She has no respect for you. She's REMORSELESS. Get out of your self inflicted purgatory.


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## Jay83

BetrayedDad said:


> If this is how you feel, then MAN UP and FILE THE DAMN DIVORCE already.
> 
> No one's saying your not in the right but dragging this out is just weak and pathetic.
> 
> She has no respect for you. She's REMORSELESS. Get out of your self inflicted purgatory.


Balls already rolling my man!


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## Lostinthought61

Look Jay you do need a life, a new one, we are 100% supportive of that, but as long as your wife is even around you, she will be grasping at anything if she thinks it will keep you in her life.....this is a woman who is unwinding at the seams and she can't figure out how to control things. She can't figure out how to control you and she is desperate, and she will not care who she runs over to control the situation.


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## TheTruthHurts

@Jay83 I think your takeaway from all the posts shouldn't be to defend yourself, but to reflect a bit. I think the main thing here is you've lost sight if what a real, positive relationship looks like. You desire it and know yours is screwed up, but the other posters are more removed from your situation and scratch their heads and provide feedback saying "That ain't normal Jay". That's all. Not your fault but you will find out much later - how sucked into this dysfunctional behavior you've been. 

I do hope you're moving on and SOON 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## BobSimmons

Jay83 said:


> I didn't rub her nose in it at all. She's friends with this woman too, *I always make sure women get home safely,* that's just me. But I'm not going to let my wife control who I can and can't see anymore, she has no right to do this. After Friday night though she showed her true craziness to her friends and to be honest they were really not impressed. Did I rock up at her night out when she didn't come home on Saturday and start interrogating her.


Hahaha come on stop the chivalrous knight in shiny armour gimmick. It was what it was, some passive aggressive rubbing wife's nose in it.. then again it sort of backfired as she didn't come home probably doing god knows what.


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## Jay83

Sorry for the long delay in replying. It's been a rough few weeks. 

Back living with my mum, the divorce ball is rolling even though she won't except having the divorce under adultery, apparently it's because "it's unfair, that means if I remarry I can't do it in a church" well isn't that too bad. You shouldn't have had the affairs. 

A very nasty side to her is coming out now, she's lost respect and a lot of friends over her actions, not to mention she's already back sleeping around with the guys she was before. She's also making herself out to be the victim in all of this, telling anyone who will listen that I wrecked the house before I left to "**** her over" and that I was also shouting in her and her friends face whilst drunk before I left.... all of them lies. Her friend is a psycho too so luckily hardly anyone is paying attention to them. 

I've been getting plenty of attention from other women but I honestly do not dare act upon any of it, she will try anything to make her out to be the victim. Even when pictures have been posted on social media and there's a group of us she messages the women there to try and intimidate them... it's got so bad I'm looking to move town to get away from the madness.

On the upside I'm going to south Africa in the next few weeks.


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## GusPolinski

Jay83 said:


> ...the divorce ball is rolling even though she won't except having the divorce under adultery, apparently it's because "it's unfair, that means if I remarry I can't do it in a church"...


The irony here is pretty freaking hilarious.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MJJEAN

Jay83 said:


> Sorry for the long delay in replying. It's been a rough few weeks.
> 
> Back living with my mum, the divorce ball is rolling even though she won't except having the divorce under adultery, apparently it's because *"it's unfair, that means if I remarry I can't do it in a church"* well isn't that too bad. You shouldn't have had the affairs.
> 
> A very nasty side to her is coming out now, she's lost respect and a lot of friends over her actions, not to mention she's already back sleeping around with the guys she was before. She's also making herself out to be the victim in all of this, telling anyone who will listen that I wrecked the house before I left to "**** her over" and that I was also shouting in her and her friends face whilst drunk before I left.... all of them lies. Her friend is a psycho too so luckily hardly anyone is paying attention to them.
> 
> I've been getting plenty of attention from other women but I honestly do not dare act upon any of it, she will try anything to make her out to be the victim. Even when pictures have been posted on social media and there's a group of us she messages the women there to try and intimidate them... it's got so bad I'm looking to move town to get away from the madness.
> 
> On the upside I'm going to south Africa in the next few weeks.


Wait...what? I have never heard of a religion that allows remarriage AND checks the divorce papers for adultery in the previous marriage. In fact, quite a few belief traditions believe adultery is the ONLY allowable reason for divorce and will marry a former adulterer provided they claim to have changed and found God.


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