# The Value of Marriage



## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

More and more, on here and in other places, I am hearing divorcee's (usually men) claiming they will never get married again-- sometimes because they feel like they can never trust or love in the same way, which is understandable, but also because marriage itself is a sham and a 'bad deal' financially (again, usually men). 

I am here, as a divorced man with two kids who will be faced at some point with the opportunity to be married a 2nd time....

to ask outside of economics, what is the value of marriage. I will consider ALL answers as this is obviously going to be subjective to beliefs and experiences.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Besides the economics of being married....i value our friendship. Its nice to know when i need a hug or someone to listen that he is there. On long nights its great to listen to him breathe and feel his warm body. 

Its nice to be able to look at him and knows he gets me. That holding his hand fills my heart...
I love thatwhen he comes home abd hugs me that he was really looking forward to seeing me.

Money is good and it can't fill your soul.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> Besides the economics of being married....i value our friendship. Its nice to know when i need a hug or someone to listen that he is there. On long nights its great to listen to him breathe and feel his warm body.
> 
> Its nice to be able to look at him and knows he gets me. That holding his hand fills my heart...
> I love thatwhen he comes home abd hugs me that he was really looking forward to seeing me.
> ...


Just playing devil's advocate, but can't you have the things you mention without marriage?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

If marriage *didn't* mean something, no one would do it.


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

Are you talking about marriage as opposed to living together in a committed relationship? 

Here are a few of the benefits we've gotten from being married:
1) A substantial tax reduction. This can work the opposite for dual income couples, but for a couple with one income, it is a big benefit.

2) The legal protections provided by marriage allowed us to do the single income / SAHS thing. I doubt that my wife would have ended her career without any legal protection.

3) Increased respect for our relationship from our community. Right or wrong, people view married couples differently than cohabiting couples. This is particularly true in religious communities.

4) It's a formal declaration of commitment. It's the equivalent of signing a contract to stay together.

5) There are a myriad of small non-financial legal protections that accrue to married couples. If I am in an accident, my wife can visit me in the hospital, make decisions for me, etc. That can be worked around with legal documents, but those are more subject to challenge. Ask a gay couple why they wanted to be able to legally marry and you'll hear more about this.

All that said, if I were to ever lose my wife, I doubt that I'd marry again. I'm not really sure if I'd even date, but if I did, I can't see that I'd get married. I'm too old to start a new family. My kids would always come ahead of any new spouse. I'd need a solid pre-nup to safeguard my assets so that my children could inherit them.


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## Cromer (Nov 25, 2016)

I will never be imprisoned, nor will I ever lose over half of my assets when it wasn't my fault, again.


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## brooklynAnn (Jun 29, 2015)

Yea, but my friends go back to their families. My kids will one day have their own lives. The electric blanket might burn the house down. The money on the bed will be uncomfortable to sleep with. The boy toy will find someone with more money....

When i am sick who will know to rub my back or let my me put my head in his lap. Nurses arent that nice.


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## As'laDain (Nov 27, 2011)

at this point, i see no valid reason to get married outside of a statement of commitment. the state does not treat both parties in a marriage fairly when they divorce. the state favors women in most cases, so what is the logical argument for a man to get married? especially if he can have all the relationship benefits without subjecting himself to the obviously biased state government?

i am happily married, but i probably wouldn't get married again if that ever changes.


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## uhtred (Jun 22, 2016)

I see marriage as a public oath to spend your lives together. This adds an additional barrier to the relationship ending, to either cheating etc. I don't think it prevents those things, but provides a little more protection.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Livvie said:


> If marriage *didn't* mean something, no one would do it.


Ah, but all indicators point toward fewer people actually doing it. Does that then mean that marriage means less these days?


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## Um Excuse Me (Feb 3, 2018)

FalCod said:


> Are you talking about marriage as opposed to living together in a committed relationship?
> 
> All that said, if I were to ever lose my wife, I doubt that I'd marry again. I'm not really sure if I'd even date, but if I did, I can't see that I'd get married. I'm too old to start a new family. My kids would always come ahead of any new spouse. I'd need a solid pre-nup to safeguard my assets so that my children could inherit them.


I've been married 31 years and would have to agree. One and done......:iagree:


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

You will get bitter guys talking about losing "their" money and assets. I am thinking they don't understand marriage. 

For us, there have been many practical benefits. Also the ceremony of things like anniversaries give us something to remind of us our commitment. When **** got tough, it was nice to have a hard time disentangling. It gave us time to have cooler heads prevail and refocus on our love and all the good stuff.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Societally, I think the primary benefit of marriage is to provide a disincentive to split the family, thereby reducing available resources for the children. Beyond that---I don't see a lot of relevance in it anymore, other than religious.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

There are a couple of responses that I was expecting. Is marriage dead?


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

I was married for 24 years. I am divorced now. For the most part I enjoyed being married. Marriage served a purpose for me during most of the parts of my life when I was married. It provided a sound stable environment to raise a family. 

However, I have no intention of every getting married again. I have no desire to have children, or be with someone who does. All of the benefits of marriage can be had without it. In fact, I would say that many of them would be enhanced. 

Mainly because most people use the institution as a crutch. They get married and then go on auto-pilot. All of the assumptions that come with marriage (ie it is for life, he/she will always love me - they married me, right?) disappear when marriage is taken out of the equation. 

I do not need a marriage to be in a committed long term relationship. I do not need the state to interfere with my life any more than they do.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

M042 said:


> There are a couple of responses that I was expecting. Is marriage dead?


Mine isn't. WOOO! If others don't choose it, more power to them.


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## 2arebetter (May 3, 2016)

I'm about to go through with a divorce so my views might shift a bit over the coming months. 

To me, marriage was a little more about the act of commitment. I would consider myself agnostic, so I don't mean the commitment made to anyone other than my wife. I think it's an added level of trust that could be the last little thing to help a couple make it through life's challenges. It's the official-ness that says I'm here for my partner and nobody else should be able to break this bond.

Then, maybe I'm a bit naive... 
I intended to stick with my wife through all the things we said in our vows. In a way I considered my wife's trouble with fidelity a sickness to which I should help her through it. I don't believe she's a bad person, but she's somehow gotten to a point she's making some terrible decisions in her life that I don't think are a part of her core character. That said, I haven't been able to get the same level of commitment from my wife (who ironically is a somewhat religious person).


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

brooklynAnn said:


> Yea, but my friends go back to their families. My kids will one day have their own lives. The electric blanket might burn the house down. The money on the bed will be uncomfortable to sleep with. The boy toy will find someone with more money....
> 
> When i am sick who will know to rub my back or let my me put my head in his lap. Nurses arent that nice.


You can still have a committed relationship without the blessing of a county clerk.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

Livvie said:


> If marriage *didn't* mean something, no one would do it.


I am not saying it doesn't mean anything. I am just asking what does it mean? Many on here are saying they would not marry again, apparently even if they were in a loving relationship. 

Would you marry again? What would the value of being married v. being in a committed relationship be?


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## FalCod (Dec 6, 2017)

M042 said:


> There are a couple of responses that I was expecting. Is marriage dead?


Look at the size of the wedding industry. It's far from dead. It is increasingly less common, particular in lower class families. Sadly, the tax laws make it harder on lower income couples. In my personal experience, very few of the people I know in long-term committed relationships aren't married. That is still true of younger people. That said, I live in a bubble where everyone is a highly compensated professional living in the suburbs of the Bible belt.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

Ynot said:


> I was married for 24 years. I am divorced now. For the most part I enjoyed being married. Marriage served a purpose for me during most of the parts of my life when I was married. It provided a sound stable environment to raise a family.
> 
> *However, I have no intention of every getting married again.* I have no desire to have children, or be with someone who does. All of the benefits of marriage can be had without it. In fact, I would say that many of them would be enhanced.
> 
> ...


This is interesting.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

M042 said:


> There are a couple of responses that I was expecting. Is marriage dead?


It is not dead, but it is dying. I think it is a relic in today's society. Women simply do not need men to raise, children or to survive financially. 
Life changes faster today than it ever did yesterday and will change faster tomorrow than it did today. People have more choices and more opportunities. What you wanted yesterday usually is something completely different tomorrow. To imagine that you are going to commit to this one person for the rest of your life, when you have no idea what the rest of your life is going to look like is ludicrous in today's world.


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## 2arebetter (May 3, 2016)

"Mainly because most people use the institution as a crutch. They get married and then go on auto-pilot. All of the assumptions that come with marriage (ie it is for life, he/she will always love me - they married me, right?) disappear when marriage is taken out of the equation. "




M042 said:


> This is interesting.


Right!! Never considered it like that.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

M042 said:


> This is interesting.


Next time you are out to dinner, observe many of the couples around you. More than half the time, one or both are obese. More than half the time, one or both are glued to their phones. They don't talk, they are just going thru the motions. 
Or better yet, read thru these forums. How many threads do you read about the passion being gone? Sexless marriages? Lack of attraction? Divergent interests? etc etc.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Yea one of the problems I have with the whole "marriage is for life" crowd, is the idea that that means once the wedding takes place you have no more options. The reality is that we always have options. Divorce is proof of that. Unhappy marriages are denial of that.


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

My experience of marriage was...not ideal. So, I'm in no hurry to remarry. If my SO ever decides he'd really like to be married, I wouldn't be opposed to it. If we talk it over and there are financial or legal benefits to one or both of us, then I'd certainly be willing. But I would be perfectly happy to remain unmarried in a long-term committed relationship. I'm not against marriage, it's just not something I have as a goal. It's simply not meaningful to me in the ways it was when I married the first time.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Social media is killing marriage and dating faster than Pete Rose can steal second base.
Second wave Feminism is driving men away from woman, by making women deny their nature and divorce a tool of destruction against men.
Marriage is not dead yet...but it is breathing it's last breaths.


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## M042 (Nov 4, 2013)

StillSearching said:


> Social media is killing marriage and dating faster than Pete Rose can steal second base.
> Second wave Feminism is driving men away from woman, by making women deny their nature and divorce a tool of destruction against men.
> Marriage is not dead yet...but it is breathing it's last breaths.


Pete Rose?


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Hmm.

Married twice. Going on 20 years. No I wouldn't marry again.

1. To get married a 3rd time means that I would have to date. I don't think I can think of very many thing that are more unappealing than the thought of dating.

2. Dating with the intent to marry also means going through an extensive vetting process. In my 40s,this means that I have a pretty extensive list of compatibility concerns. I am also exceedingly picky, so the process is likely to start over numerous times. Did I mention this was an unappealing idea.

3. Im pretty comfortable with my life and so, I really don't yearn for companionship. I guess I would be very cautious about messing up a good thing. A good job, my Harley's, and open road. Everything past that are just extras.

4. I don't do casual sex, so beyond a relationship, I wouldn't chase after women. The game is really not worth playing in my opinion.

This is strictly my opinion.


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## DustyDog (Jul 12, 2016)

M042 said:


> More and more, on here and in other places, I am hearing divorcee's (usually men) claiming they will never get married again-- sometimes because they feel like they can never trust or love in the same way, which is understandable, but also because marriage itself is a sham and a 'bad deal' financially (again, usually men).
> 
> I am here, as a divorced man with two kids who will be faced at some point with the opportunity to be married a 2nd time....
> 
> to ask outside of economics, what is the value of marriage. I will consider ALL answers as this is obviously going to be subjective to beliefs and experiences.


I will never be married again. Has nothing to do with economics. Has to do with an extended period of time when people who had nothing to do with the marriage are in control of it. A judge, attorneys, mediators...I have never felt this demeaned.

Value of marriage:
Hate to tell you, but for the lower-income spouse, you can NOT cut out economics. In the USA, if a person is married for 10 years before divorce, then they can access some Social Security benefits from the ex-spouse. That can be huge if, for instance, a wife is a medical doctor and the husband only did odd jobs paid under the table. He will have built up no SS. IF she decides, after 15 years, that she would rather be married to another MD, and dumps the hubs...he may be too old to get a real job and build up any SS of his own.

Non-economic. I LOVED presenting myself to the world as a part of a couple. When people interact as couples, they build biggger community. A community built of four couples is bigger and capable of more social change than 8 people who are not coupled.

Knowing that there are real barriers involved in someone abandoning you -people really do stick it out better in marriage. Women in Western Culture feel thrown to the wolves if a man abandons them - and for good reason. I have no problem believing all the abuse stories in the news, simply because I have witnessed, first-hand, how women get treated by car mechanics. The sense that there's a man who "has their back" is huge and they can do a better job of being properly assertive in the world when they know there's a man who's going to be there when they encounter a "man who wants to put women in their place".


I will be offering all that to my next "rest of life" partner...I am figuring out how to create an SS equivalent, and the rest...well, it's who I am. But I don't want, ever again, to allow third parties to be in control of the relationship.

DD


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

M042 said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > If marriage *didn't* mean something, no one would do it.
> ...


If I find my rest of my life partner, and am with him for the next 30ish years....I really don't want to just be still his "girlfriend" when I'm 80 years old. Marriage to me is a commitment by which you become a family with each other. Being someone's husband or wife means something different than just being a boyfriend or girlfriend. It's a familial, social, legal difference that exists in our society of humans today. If I find my special man, I want the whole enchilada, I want to be married.


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## Um Excuse Me (Feb 3, 2018)

Just throwing this out there that perhaps gay and / or lesbian couples place a higher value on marriage than heterosexual couples. Anyone agree?


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## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Um Excuse Me said:


> Just throwing this out there that perhaps gay and / or lesbian couples place a higher value on marriage than heterosexual couples. Anyone agree?


Only to the degree that it was previously inaccessible to them in the not so recent past.


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## cc48kel (Apr 5, 2017)

brooklynAnn said:


> Besides the economics of being married....i value our friendship. Its nice to know when i need a hug or someone to listen that he is there. On long nights its great to listen to him breathe and feel his warm body.
> 
> Its nice to be able to look at him and knows he gets me. That holding his hand fills my heart...
> I love thatwhen he comes home abd hugs me that he was really looking forward to seeing me.
> ...



This is exactly what I want in marriage!


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Is marriage dead? I don't think so. Outside of religious circles, I know quite a few young people (20's and 30's) who want to marry, but simply cannot afford to yet. Most cite debt as their reason. Student loans being chief, but also credit card debt and personal loans they want to pay off before marrying, taking on a mortgage, and producing little dependents.

For me, marriage means my partner and I committed legally, socially, and spiritually. Why settle for less than that total commitment? I'm worth it.

That said... I had an absolute shyte miserable sham of a first marriage. I divorced him after 6 years. I have had a great 2nd marriage. DH and I have been together for 18 years and married 15 of those. If I were to ever be single again I doubt I'd remarry. I couldn't love another man with the depth and passion I feel for DH.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

MJJEAN said:


> Is marriage dead? I don't think so. Outside of religious circles, I know quite a few young people (20's and 30's) who want to marry, but simply cannot afford to yet. Most cite debt as their reason. Student loans being chief, but also credit card debt and personal loans they want to pay off before marrying, taking on a mortgage, and producing little dependents.
> 
> For me, marriage means my partner and I committed legally, socially, and spiritually. Why settle for less than that total commitment? I'm worth it.
> 
> That said... I had an absolute shyte miserable sham of a first marriage. I divorced him after 6 years. I have had a great 2nd marriage. DH and I have been together for 18 years and married 15 of those. If I were to ever be single again I doubt I'd remarry. I couldn't love another man with the depth and passion I feel for DH.


Hey I am glad you found your happiness. But I have to disagree with the first part of your post. Seriously, aside from the unnecessary and exorbitant cost of most weddings these days, how does any of that prevent anyone from getting married? I think some younger people are delaying and/or avoiding marriage because they have witnessed the carnage of divorce in the previous generation. They simply do not want to go thru that themselves.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Um Excuse Me said:


> Just throwing this out there that perhaps gay and / or lesbian couples place a higher value on marriage than heterosexual couples. Anyone agree?


Aside from a few benefits (arguably important to some) that is something I never understood. Why would they want to invite the state into their private lives.
I would think they would be better off advocating for the removal or extension of those benefits that advocating for the right to marry (which I think they should have simply be virtue of the fact that they exist)


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## Magnesium (Jun 19, 2017)

Um Excuse Me said:


> Just throwing this out there that perhaps gay and / or lesbian couples place a higher value on marriage than heterosexual couples. Anyone agree?


I dunno. I am a woman who was married to another woman. We are divorced. Every single gay and lesbian couple I know personally that married after they were legally allowed to has already separated and/or divorced (with the exception of one couple in which one partner died). Many of those folks are already either remarried to new spouses or in 3rd to 5th generation relationships past the marriage.


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## Notself (Aug 25, 2017)

Um Excuse Me said:


> Just throwing this out there that perhaps gay and / or lesbian couples place a higher value on marriage than heterosexual couples. Anyone agree?


Agree. But in five years the gay/lesbian divorce rate will match the heterosexual rate. In fact, I wonder if it hasn't already.


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## Notself (Aug 25, 2017)

Ynot said:


> Aside from a few benefits (arguably important to some) that is something I never understood. Why would they want to invite the state into their private lives.
> I would think they would be better off advocating for the removal or extension of those benefits that advocating for the right to marry (which I think they should have simply be virtue of the fact that they exist)


You're never going to convince the majority of Americans that the state shouldn't regulate marriage. Just look at all the folks who would *love *to legislate their version of morality. 

I think it's dumb, but until the government actually gets out of the business, it's fair that gays & lesbians should be able to receive the same benefits their straight neighbors can. (Although that's currently under threat in Texas, which has just passed a law that says that even if gays can get married, the state doesn't have to give them the same tax or government benefits that heterosexual couples can receive from the state.)


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Notself said:


> You're never going to convince the majority of Americans that the state shouldn't regulate marriage. Just look at all the folks who would *love *to legislate their version of morality.
> 
> I think it's dumb, but until the government actually gets out of the business, it's fair that gays & lesbians should be able to receive the same benefits their straight neighbors can. (Although that's currently under threat in Texas, which has just passed a law that says that even if gays can get married, the state doesn't have to give them the same tax or government benefits that heterosexual couples can receive from the state.)


I have given up trying to convince anyone of anything at this point. All I am doing is stating reality. The fact that many refuse to recognize reality is beyond my control. Hopefully they might decide to look into things themselves rather than simply accept what they have been told. In many cases they would probably change their opinions.


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## KrisAmiss (May 1, 2017)

I've been asking myself the same question, OP. My divorce will be final in about 30 days and I've already been dating an awesome guy. He was married briefly but considers himself never married and yet always has wanted to be. I wanted to be married (and did so almost 27 years now) but I couldn't take it all the way home.

It's clearer to me now at 51 than it was at 24 that I'd be taking someone to the death. There might be more sickness than health. In some ways it's the harder part of life with aging but in others easier, with older kids and less time obsessing over work (at least for us.)

I would commit cuz I think he's a person of value, worth tying myself to. That's validation. It would mean something to him and it'd mean something to everyone we'd meet. Are you stable cuz you're married or do you get married cuz you're stable?

I'm still silly enough to marry for love. If you eat at a bad restaurant, do you stave off restaurants forever? I for one will try a new one.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

KrisAmiss said:


> I'm still silly enough to marry for love. If you eat at a bad restaurant, do you stave off restaurants forever? I for one will try a new one.


One bad experience is enough to put some folks off some things forever.

I submit tequila as exhibit A.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

I had an interesting realization this week that coming this November I will officially be divorced as long as I was ever married. I can’t believe it’s been 8years already

In all that time since people ask me if I would every get married again. To me it’s a risk vs reward analysis. And the risk far exceeds any benefits gained. It’s also not a risk just to me but my kids as well. I still love the romantic notion of marriage just not the risk reality of it as a man with kids, a house, truck, and pension to protect. Any marriage that would be in my future would have to come with a lot of safeguards in place.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> *Second wave Feminism is driving men away from woman*, by making *women deny their nature* and divorce a tool of destruction against men.



Men are being driven away from women, goodness what did I miss?! What is my nature that I am denying ... do tell? 


Disclaimer: I am not and have never been a feminist; I am and have always been an egalitarian. I am also an individual ... no group-think or herd-mentality in my playbook because it usually leads to victim-think and blaming others.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

Aside from economics ... the main value of marriage is to children ... two-parent (committed) families are important to a child's development.


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## MJJEAN (Jun 26, 2015)

Ynot said:


> Hey I am glad you found your happiness. But I have to disagree with the first part of your post. Seriously, aside from the unnecessary and exorbitant cost of most weddings these days, how does any of that prevent anyone from getting married? I think some younger people are delaying and/or avoiding marriage because they have witnessed the carnage of divorce in the previous generation. They simply do not want to go thru that themselves.


Near as I can tell, it's social/parental pressure.

Parents and society tell kids they're supposed to do things "the right way" and that doing things "the right way" will reap rewards while doing things "the wrong way" will yield utter disaster. 

"The right way" seems to be generally agreed upon.

-Complete education. 
Some variation of "You need a degree or skilled labor/tech certificate in order to be able to afford to live. You're not even grown until you've completed this step, so concentrate on your studies/training. If you're going to date, don't get serious. This is the rest of your life we're talking about! You can't afford to be distracted from your goal!"

-Obtain employment. 
Some variation of "You can't support a family without a stable job and some savings for emergencies! It's irresponsible to marry and have children young! You must be established first!"

-Learn to adult, enjoy travel, and find yourself. 
Some variation of "You're only young once. See some of the world. Get to know you! You'll regret it if you settle down too young. Besides, you have to know who you are before you'll be able to know who you're compatible with!"

-Pay down debt/build savings
Some variation of "A family is expensive! You must get your debt paid off/paid down and be saving your disposable income before you even think of spending on a wedding, putting a down payment on a home, or can afford children!"

Then we're told we should date for a minimum period of time before we can say we've done our due diligence and are marrying responsibly.

Annnd then we have the wedding. 

Between those who are attached to the idea of a "proper wedding" (low to mid cost), those who refuse to marry until they can afford the Disney Princess wedding they've dreamed about since they were 6 (higher cost), and those who are obligated by culture and/or religion to spend on a bash including flying in relatives from overseas, it's a minor miracle anyone gets married before they're 40 due to cost alone.


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## Mr.Married (Feb 21, 2018)

All the men I've seen claiming the "never married again thing" are soon there after married because "This one is different, has better intent, would never cheat, is great in bed, makes me feel different than the 
last one, isn't like other women" and the list goes on and on and on. While this obviously isn't the case for all, I say it happens a lot more than not. The ones who do indeed do not get married again are the
type of men who very well understand what their boundaries are and have a clear understanding of how to fill the "relationship" part of there needs in conventional or unconventional ways without the union of marriage.
Nether way is right or wrong. While I used the male gender above, it works the other way around as well. And lastly there are those who don't get married again but never find a way to fill the relationship needs. It is my experience that these people end up very bitter and have a very loud voice proclaiming " I need no one!"

Logistics of marriage is something completely different but I find obvious so didn't cover it.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

Although I've been happily married for almost 25 years, things being the way they are now in this world, if I were to find myself suddenly without my wife, would most certainly date and have relationships, but most certainly, I wouldn't ever remarried, no way. That would be up-front. And knowing what I know about females, it would be really obvious when she finally realizes that I actually meant it.


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## EasyPartner (Apr 7, 2014)

Rob_1 said:


> Although I've been happily married for almost 25 years, things being the way they are now in this world, if I were to find myself suddenly without my wife, would most certainly date and have relationships, but most certainly, I wouldn't ever remarried, no way. That would be up-front. And knowing what I know about females, it would be really obvious when she finally realizes that I actually meant it.


Just curious. How would it be obvious and why?


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

I just want to put something out there. All of these people who say they will never marry again because they have financial "things" to protect...

Keep in mind, if you are older, and wouldn't ever marry your life partner because you want to *protect yourself financially*, that your partner may act in kind. If you ever get very sick/have cancer/etc. or disabled in old age and need extensive care, your partner may not be so willing to care for you, put their life on hold, take a hit to their own finances and energy (because hey, they are a single person and only have themselves to look out for themselves).

Sometimes you get what you give.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I just want to put something out there. All of these people who say they will never marry again because they have financial "things" to protect...
> 
> Keep in mind, if you are older, and wouldn't ever marry your life partner because you want to *protect yourself financially*, that your partner may act in kind. If you ever get very sick/have cancer/etc. or disabled in old age and need extensive care, your partner may not be so willing to care for you, put their life on hold, take a hit to their own finances and energy (because hey, they are a single person and only have themselves to look out for themselves).
> 
> Sometimes you get what you give.


How does getting married change any of that? If your SO decided they didn't want to put their life to take care of you, they wouldn't whether you were married of not. Unless you think that simply having a piece of paper or saying "I do" somehow obligates you to do that. The reality of it is either that person cares about you enough or they don't. Having a ring, saying a vow or swearing an oath won't change that one single bit.
PS I should add, speaking as a man, is that for the most part quite a few of the women I have met post divorce are in better financial position than I am at this time. So protecting assets is very much a two way street.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Red Sonja said:


> Men are being driven away from women, goodness what did I miss?! What is my nature that I am denying ... do tell?
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: I am not and have never been a feminist; I am and have always been an egalitarian. I am also an individual ... no group-think or herd-mentality in my playbook because it usually leads to victim-think and blaming others.


Well men are turned off from this wave of Man Hating Feminism. Thus the reason they are driven away. Men will walk away from confrontational women. 
On your second point, If your not denying the natural, evolutionary female traits that all women possess then your part of the solution.


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## Red Sonja (Sep 8, 2012)

StillSearching said:


> *Well men are turned off from this wave of Man Hating Feminism*. Thus the reason they are driven away. *Men will walk away from confrontational women*.
> On your second point, If your not denying the *natural, evolutionary female traits *that all women possess then your part of the solution.


Men are turned off by man-hating women just as women are turned off by woman-hating men (e.g. MGTOW).

Hmmm ... this has not been my experience at all. In discussions involving differences of opinion (conflict) at work or in social settings I have never observed this walk-away behavior by men. Unless of course one of the participants (male or female) was being an ******* instead of discussing.

I am asking what are these "natural, evolutionary female traits" that all women possess? Are they more than the physical (can't be denied)? How do I know I am or am not "denying" them if I do not know of what you speak?


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## username77 (Dec 27, 2017)

You get a tax break, and the intertwined economics make it more likely to work through issues rather than just call it quits. If people are just shacking up, what's mine is mine, what's yours is yours, it's real easy to say "hit the road" over minor things. The overwhelming financial strain it puts on a man leaves him much more likely to remain in the marriage long term.


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## Rob_1 (Sep 8, 2017)

@EasyPartner: Quote: "Just curious. How would it be obvious and why?"

If you have any experience with women you should know by now that on average, when you try to tell them that something is going to be "this way" in a relationship, they at first would agree, but as you should know eventually, they would turn around an try to change things, e.g., my original point was that I wouldn't never again marry, and that in a new relationship that would be up-front, well, knowing what I know, I'm certain that that understanding, would go only so far before a new song would be heard about moving forward with the relationship.

That's not to say that every woman is like that or that she wouldn't be able to live up to the understanding, but like I said if you know anything about women this is one of the things that comes up when dealing with them about relationships.


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## Windwalker (Mar 19, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I just want to put something out there. All of these people who say they will never marry again because they have financial "things" to protect...
> 
> Keep in mind, if you are older, and wouldn't ever marry your life partner because you want to *protect yourself financially*, that your partner may act in kind. If you ever get very sick/have cancer/etc. or disabled in old age and need extensive care, your partner may not be so willing to care for you, put their life on hold, take a hit to their own finances and energy (because hey, they are a single person and only have themselves to look out for themselves).
> 
> Sometimes you get what you give.


Sometimes, you get a hell of a lot less than you give!


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## jlcrome (Nov 5, 2017)

From my experience marriage can only be ideal only if it last a lifetime. When two people who truly love each other and make every effort possible to make it happen. My 2nd marriage was a disaster bad choices, poor communication, unresolved conflict etc going on 10 years now separated headed toward divorce. I spent the last year doing everything imaginable to make it work. Yes 365 or more days reading books, sermons, prayer, counseling, etc...hoping to make a break thru. In the end 2017 went up in smoke I completely exhausted every resource possible to no avail. The last 8 years was a complete waste. My wife was always right and could do no wrong. But as looking back I can say she was a hoarder big time. Sex was non existence and trying to get affection was an act of congress. 
So yes marriage can be great I see couples all the time that are extremely happy but.....sometimes you marry wrong and it will suck the life out of ya. Divorce is painful and heartbreaking. If I had any advice for marriage wannabees test the waters!!!! Wait 1 year before getting married sit down 2-3 week and talk yes talk for hours about every possible senerio. Cover every possible thing known to man about marriage. 
Marriage is no longer marriage now days it's just a progressive form of cohabitation with loops holes to get out. 
Just my 2 cents worth.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Ynot said:


> Livvie said:
> 
> 
> > I just want to put something out there. All of these people who say they will never marry again because they have financial "things" to protect...
> ...


I was talking about the *mindset/energetics* behind a man saying he's not going to marry his partner because he has things to protect financially from her (his truck, his house, etc.). That's all well and good, but that particular mindset as the reason given to another person why they won't marry you can set up a ... tone. If your partner won't fully commit to you in marriage and protecting their finances from you is the reason, then don't be surprised if that same partner looks out for themselves, at the expense of not helping you someday- if the **** hits the fan for you- if said help will harm them financially.


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## TheDudeLebowski (Oct 10, 2017)

I wouldn't get married again. We are equal earners. I'm not religious, she is. It doesn't help us tax wise to be married. It actually hurts us. Infidelity isn't an issue. We are both happy. I don't believe marriage favors a man, though it does favor your kids. I wouldn't choose anyone else for a life partner.

Basically it just boils down to that last part. I made the choice with her. If it doesn't work out for any reason, I believe I failed. For me it's a one and done shot. Seems awfully silly to me to make that same commitment to another person. Takes a lot of the meaning away from it imo. I know many who are on their second and third marriages and are happy. They might take exception to that comment. I don't really care. To me you are diminishing the value of the original commitment and the commitment of "till death do us part" as a whole. "I promise to spend my life with you. Oops, that didn't work out. Now I promise to spend my life with you. Oops again, now I promise to spend my life with you." Its nonsense to me. You failed. You either failed in your choice or you failed your spouse in your marriage. Or death did you part. 

That may sound unfair, but that is just how it is for me. Its a one and done commitment. Death due us part, or failure. There is no second chances for marriage in my own life.


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## Ynot (Aug 26, 2014)

Livvie said:


> I was talking about the *mindset/energetics* behind a man saying he's not going to marry his partner because he has things to protect financially from her (his truck, his house, etc.). That's all well and good, but that particular mindset as the reason given to another person why they won't marry you can set up a ... tone. If your partner won't fully commit to you in marriage and protecting their finances from you is the reason, then don't be surprised if that same partner looks out for themselves, at the expense of not helping you someday- if the **** hits the fan for you- if said help will harm them financially.


Good and fine, why would you expect anything else? As opposed to handing over half of your assets? Regardless of whether you are male or female.


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## Razor1777 (Jun 10, 2018)

The harsh reality is that marriage (in general) provides very little benefit to men. Men can get everything they desire out of a relationship without signing a contract. Men (in general) are the ones who pay alimony and child support (and sometimes more) after a divorce and family court has become a house of horrors for men (in general). Unless laws change and the government stays out of our bedroom, expect more men (in general) to turn away from marriage.

Now I will click "POST QUICK REPLY" and watch the "But my marriage is great and you're an idiot!" responses come in...


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## cali_chick (Oct 18, 2012)

I don’t think I’d get married again. It was supposed to be “for life” and that didn’t happen. People change, I was in big denial, and we were stuck in an unfulfilling marriage that should have ended years ago. 

Marriage satisfies a human’s need for what looks like stability. A piece of paper. It’s the value you assign to it. Couples cheat and/or break-up all the time. Many get married too young and more often, to the wrong person 

Personally, I don’t need the idea of it. Not again.


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