# False Reconciliation?



## angrybuttrying (Jun 17, 2013)

Been reading about R and false R, and was wondering what others' experiences with false R were. Did your WS continue interaction with AP, just underground? Did your WS make an honest (no pun intended) attempt to R, just gave up and moved on with the AP or someone else entirely?

How did you find out it was false R? How much time had passed since dday did you find out it was all a sham?

Just curious, as I'm in R now, and believe that things are going well. Thanks!


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## canuckprincess (Mar 22, 2012)

As a fow, yes you read that right. Things ended and as for false r goes we carried on the full blown affair for 23 months after dday. We thought his bs didn't know but I'm sure she did, she now knows everything. As for whether he will put forth an effort to rebuild his marriage only time will tell. Some people do put forth an effort right away others don't. Every situation is different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

I consider the time between when my husband hired the hooker and when he told me about it to be false R.

My Story

He moved back home under false pretenses. Time span was from June to November, so 5 months. He finally came clean but I was taken right back to square one - maybe even farther. Our situation is a bit different though because there wasn't just one AP - we were fighting his addiction. He's been clean since though and things are much better now


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

Great question. I also believe my wife and I are in R. But, I wonder how often a WS commits to R, but realizes it is hard work and eventually returns to their cheating ways. At least a false R would lead to a clear path to D. This is hard.


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

False R from Nov 2011 till late April 2013.

She never ended her A till April 2013. Lied about dates that I had proof about, lied about details, did not care about me, tried to fake it but my wife was not real, I could go on and on.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

bartendersfriend said:


> Great question. I also believe my wife and I are in R. But, I wonder how often a WS commits to R, but realizes it is hard work and eventually returns to their cheating ways. At least a false R would lead to a clear path to D. This is hard.


If a spouse doesn't end an affair immediately, and continues to see the OP, that's definitely a false R. Beyond that, it is not even any kind of R. It's a sham.

When the wayward has immediately stopped the affair, then, IMO, a lot of reconciliations fail because the loyal spouse refuses to focus on any or their own shortcomings. 

Sometimes, too, the loyal continually shames and tries to embarrass the disloyal spouse, even when they are attempting to work on the marriage. 

The loyal also sometimes uses it as a trump card to pull out in every non-relevant argument. 

If that is happening a reconciliation is not sustainable. 

Both people need to want the reconciliation to work, and both need IC to see themselves clearly, IMO.


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## ScrewedEverything (May 14, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> When the wayward has immediately stopped the affair, then, IMO, a lot of reconciliations fail because the loyal spouse refuses to focus on any or their own shortcomings.


Isn't a one-sided reconciliation still a reconciliation? It seems unrealistic to believe that two fallible, imperfect, human beings are going to be able to change everything that's wrong in their relationship and reach a state of perfection. Hopefully a reconciliation does not need to result in a perfect relationship to be considered successful, otherwise every R is a false R and every marriage is a false M. So if a couple can successfully reconcile but still have an imperfect relationship, the measure of a successful R must be something different. 

Isn't it just regaining the ability to commit to each other and to live a happy, rewarding life together, in spite of what failings may exist?


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

remorseful strayer said:


> If a spouse doesn't end an affair immediately, and continues to see the OP, that's definitely a false R. Beyond that, it is not even any kind of R. It's a sham.
> 
> When the wayward has immediately stopped the affair, then, IMO, a lot of reconciliations fail because the loyal spouse refuses to focus on any or their own shortcomings.
> 
> ...


I see your point, and probably it is often true. Maybe not what a BS wants to hear.

I would also suggest that these are also the reasons why a R is more difficult than a D.

It does take two to R. Many times the R is a desperate reaction to the hurt following d-day by the BS. Later the tables often turn and the resentment/anger becomes too great for the BS.

Blame? That would fall to the WS for instigating a betrayal.

Failure of the R? That would fall to either the WS, or the BS.

In the end I think MOST would be happier to D. Not knocking ANYONE trying to R. Most of us have tried after d-day.

This could be a good topic for thought.


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## Hope1964 (Sep 26, 2011)

ScrewedEverything said:


> Isn't a one-sided reconciliation still a reconciliation?


 No!! How could it be?



ScrewedEverything said:


> It seems unrealistic to believe that two fallible, imperfect, human beings are going to be able to change everything that's wrong in their relationship and reach a state of perfection.


 Perfection is neither realistic nor attainable. Nor, I would submit, desirable.



ScrewedEverything said:


> Hopefully a reconciliation does not need to result in a perfect relationship to be considered successful, otherwise every R is a false R and every marriage is a false M. So if a couple can successfully reconcile but still have an imperfect relationship, the measure of a successful R must be something different.
> 
> Isn't it just regaining the ability to commit to each other and to live a happy, rewarding life together, in spite of what failings may exist?


I would say so


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## Lovemytruck (Jul 3, 2012)

Back to the question:

I was in a false R for 8 months. It was false for the first couple of months for continued contact by my exWW with her AP.

It was false after that for a couple more months because of an undiscoverd EA she failed to mention (different AP - my former best friend).

It was false after that because I decided it was only a matter of time until I would end it in a D.

Total time - 8 months.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

10 weeks false R here. We tried hard - tons of hysterical bonding, reading all the books and doing the exercises, having a set amount of "us" time every day/week, her giving me passwords etc. However she was VERY quick to take on the "OK I'm ready for you to shower me with love and bring me flowers and give me compliments etc etc" (in other words "get over it" and treat me like the princess I am). I of course was nowhere near ready to do that, and these demands would cause me to get angry. It also lead me to believe she was not "truly" remorseful - she had a LOT more heavy lifting to do before I was going to put her back on that pedestal - she wasn't willing to wait.

However, even if she had done all the heavy lifting, and done everything she could have done to help me heal - I don't think it would have mattered. I was dying inside, being with someone who would gut me like that. I tried, really tried hard - I needed to for my kids. But in the end, I ended it...staying married to someone who would treat me and my children that way was just not sustainable.

I also believe most cheaters have serious personality disorders, and all the heavy lifting in the world won't change that. Many are simply broken, selfish, messed up people. 

For me, life's too damn short to live in misery with someone who would treat me with such contempt and heinousness. And my kids would've felt that - so as painful and awful it is that their parents are divorcing, us staying together would've been worse for them and me.

So, that being said, our R was false.


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## carmen ohio (Sep 24, 2012)

angrybuttrying said:


> Been reading about R and false R, and was wondering what others' experiences with false R were. Did your WS continue interaction with AP, just underground? Did your WS make an honest (no pun intended) attempt to R, just gave up and moved on with the AP or someone else entirely?
> 
> How did you find out it was false R? How much time had passed since dday did you find out it was all a sham?
> 
> Just curious, as I'm in R now, and believe that things are going well. Thanks!


Dear angrybuttrying,

I "false reconciliation" in one in which the WS engages in some sort of deception toward the BS post D-Day. This could involve lying about the nature or extent of the affair, _secretly_ continuing to be in contact with the AP or engaging in new infidelities behind the BS's back. It could also involve deceiving the BS about the WS's feelings toward the BS or the AP or about the reason the WS wishes to remain in the marriage.

The most important requirement for R is honesty. If the WS is honest about what he or she did, is doing, is feeling, etc., then, however the WS's actions fall short of the BS's expectations, the R is not "false." Look up the definition of "false": not real or genuine; not true or accurate; deliberately untrue; done or said to fool or deceive someone (False - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary).

If there is no deception, then the R is not "false," even if the WS does not do everything the BS asks or expects or if the R eventually fails. Of course, R cannot happen if the WS does not cease to engage in adulterous activities post D-Day, and is unlikely to be successful if the WS is not genuinely remorseful for his or her cheating or is not prepared to do the so-called "heavy lifting." R is also likely to be unsuccessful if the BS "rugsweeps" the WS's infidelity or the WS fails to experiene serious consequences for his or her infidelity.

You also asked how much time had passed between D-Day and the discovery that the R was a sham. Based upon hundreds of threads on TAM/CWI, the answer can be from a few days to many years. My guess is that many seemingly genuine Rs are really false Rs in which the BS never discovers the WS's continuing deceptions. And then there are the cases in which a couple apparently R successfully, only to have the FWS cheat again years later.

You say you "believe" things are going well with your R. This, unfortunately, is of no help in determining if your R is false or not. The question is: is she deceiving you in any way? If so, your R is false, no matter what else she is or isn't doing. So, if you want to know if your R is genuine or false, you will have to dig for the full truth about what she did, what she is doing, why she did what she did, what she is feeling about you and her AP and why she wants to R with you. Based upon your other threads, I gather that you have not done this.

Only when you are _certain_ that you know the answers to these questions can you say with confidence that your R is not false. Since your D-Day was less that a year ago, based on some of the things you've said on your other threads (like, _"I have made a conscious decision to trust her completely in every aspect of our relationship"_), and given that you start a new thread every couple of weeks in which you ask questions like this, my guess is that you have some doubts. If so, do something about it.

Hope this helps.


P.S.: In your previous threads, you repeatedly and dogmatically assert that your WW only had a brief EA but you admit that you have no proof of this (_"With respect to the EA, it was just emails, no sexting, no pictures, no gifts, no calls, etc. How do I know? I asked her and I believe her. At the point these questions came up, neither of us was motivated to lie about any of it. I also was able to assess her reactions and believe she was telling the truth"_). My guess is that you have serious doubts about your WW's veracity on this point and that that is the reason you continue to experience serious triggers and to question the genuineness of your R.


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

Healer said:


> However, even if she had done all the heavy lifting, and done everything she could have done to help me heal - I don't think it would have mattered. I was dying inside, being with someone who would gut me like that. I tried, really tried hard - I needed to for my kids.


That is what I am honestly most afraid of now. Not that she is continuing the affair or that she will resume it. I am worried that I cannot heal. Like you said, I feel a little more like I am "dying inside" every day.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

bartendersfriend said:


> That is what I am honestly most afraid of now. Not that she is continuing the affair or that she will resume it. I am worried that I cannot heal. Like you said, I feel a little more like I am "dying inside" every day.


It's literally a twisting inside, isn't it? I used to go the bathroom stall at work and just sit in there - staring at that white wall...my insides literally twisting and turning - the struggle within - struggling to make it work, to make it through. It was an anguish and pain I had never experienced before. And I couldn't reconcile within myself - I was trying SO hard to, it was the fight of my life.

I knew deep down it was only going to get worse - or at best stay that way forever. I came home one time and looked at her and shook my head. She knew what it meant, and she went hysterical - literally pinned me down and screamed in my face to keep trying. I relented after a while - she was just crazed.

A few days later I realized I really, really had to end it. So I did, via text, the same way she left me the first time. I couldn't risk another physical confrontation. She showed up at my mom's house where I was staying and went nuts again - physically attacking me. I pinned her and eventually she relented, said OK, and left.

It was AWFUL. But even after that brutal emotional and physical turmoil, the pain and anguish lifted. It was so palpable. The fist that was constricting my whole body and soul released its grip.

The pain of divorcing, and seeing my kids in pain is horrible. Even so, I am happy.

I hope you do what's best for you, my friend.


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

Healer said:


> The pain of divorcing, and seeing my kids in pain is horrible. Even so, I am happy.
> 
> I hope you do what's best for you, my friend.


Thank you for sharing. Every person in my life has told me that I should work through this for my 3 small children. I don't know, unless you've experienced this, if you can actually know the anguish. I just sit in a dark room and stare at nothing. That is, at times, what I feel inside... nothing. I love her & the kids so much, but I don't know if I can heal. We are only a little over a month since DDay, so I hope this feeling starts to slowly dwindle. Finding TAM has been really helpful though.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

bartendersfriend said:


> Thank you for sharing. Every person in my life has told me that I should work through this for my 3 small children. I don't know, unless you've experienced this, if you can actually know the anguish. I just sit in a dark room and stare at nothing. That is, at times, what I feel inside... nothing. I love her & the kids so much, but I don't know if I can heal. We are only a little over a month since DDay, so I hope this feeling starts to slowly dwindle. Finding TAM has been really helpful though.


Remember it's not their life, it's yours. Remember they weren't betrayed in the worst possible way - you were. Remember they don't have to live with the anguish - you do.

Staying in a marriage "for the kids" isn't a good idea. Unless you are able to fully forgive, fully love, fully trust again. And that, my friend, is no small feat. 

Since we split, my kids have "blossomed", and I have "come back to life"...this according to many people in my life. And I feel and see it too.

R may be possible for you - maybe not. Just remember not to stay in a miserable marriage just for the kids. It's not good for them or you.

Best of luck whatever path you choose.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

I guess I can agree with carmenohio's definition of a false R - the WS deception angle.

But there are situations where the WS doesn't cheat again, and their lack of demonstrated remorse contributes to the BS's inability to trust and heal. Thus perpetuating what I would call, a false R. Perhaps that is deception in a sense. The deception being that the BS says they're remorseful when they're really not.


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## bartendersfriend (Oct 14, 2013)

Healer said:


> R may be possible for you - maybe not. Just remember not to stay in a miserable marriage just for the kids. It's not good for them or you.


We start MC next week. In the early days I was feeling like I had to make a decision right away, but now I feel like I can decide at any time what I want. I do not feel trapped any more.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Hi SE:

No one is perfect. 

Nevertheless the affair must end before reconciliation can even be considered. 

I ended my affair immediately because my marriage was my 
priority, not the affair. 

An affair is disrespectful enough, but not ending it immediately on dday indicates that the affair is about more than sex or just some fantasy relationship. It suggests a deep connection. 

If a deep connection exists between the AP and the spouse, a reconciliation is going to be difficult, if not impossible, IMO. 

No one should expect a state of perfection in the marriage, but ending an affair is a must and that is when the R starts. 





ScrewedEverything said:


> Isn't a one-sided reconciliation still a reconciliation? It seems unrealistic to believe that two fallible, imperfect, human beings are going to be able to change everything that's wrong in their relationship and reach a state of perfection. Hopefully a reconciliation does not need to result in a perfect relationship to be considered successful, otherwise every R is a false R and every marriage is a false M. So if a couple can successfully reconcile but still have an imperfect relationship, the measure of a successful R must be something different.
> 
> Isn't it just regaining the ability to commit to each other and to live a happy, rewarding life together, in spite of what failings may exist?


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Lovemytruck:

It's definitely easier, IMO, for both the BS and the WS to divorce than to reconcile. 

My spouse and I divorced first, then we reconciled. 

It's up to you two to decide what is best. 

IMO, a trial separation or a divorce certainly can't hurt. R can always still be an option, afterward. 



Lovemytruck said:


> I see your point, and probably it is often true. Maybe not what a BS wants to hear.
> 
> I would also suggest that these are also the reasons why a R is more difficult than a D.
> 
> ...


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## angrybuttrying (Jun 17, 2013)

To close this thread, I'll say that I have every reason to believe we are not in false R. She has been very remorseful, sensitive to triggers, and through my own limited (and unknown to her) snooping, I've confirmed NC and nothing suspicious in her words, behaviors, etc.

Thanks for the thoughts and posts, as always very insightful to hear from others. I'm confident in our future together, in the changes we've made and in the new outlook on life we each have. Thanks.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> I also believe most cheaters have serious personality disorders, and all the heavy lifting in the world won't change that. Many are simply broken, selfish, messed up people.


Not everyone who has an affair has a personality disorder. Sometimes a trapped spouse cheats because the loyal spouse has a personality disorder.

It depends on why the spouse cheated. What was missing in the marriage that caused the spouse to cheat. There are some extenuating circumstances. 

Some people cheat and their was nothing missing in the marriage. 

For example a financially dependent wife, who may not have the skills to acquire a job might have valid complaints against a husband and cheat because she is trapped and has requested that the loyal spouse change, but he/she refuses to acknowledge their own faults. 

She's trapped so she cheats as a way to end the marriage and find someone else to transition to.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

angrybuttrying said:


> To close this thread, I'll say that I have every reason to believe we are not in false R. She has been very remorseful, sensitive to triggers, and through my own limited (and unknown to her) snooping, I've confirmed NC and nothing suspicious in her words, behaviors, etc.
> 
> Thanks for the thoughts and posts, as always very insightful to hear from others. I'm confident in our future together, in the changes we've made and in the new outlook on life we each have. Thanks.


I am glad to hear that. 

My wife and I are in a good R, too.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Not everyone who has an affair has a personality disorder. Sometimes a trapped spouse cheats because the loyal spouse has a personality disorder.
> 
> It depends on why the spouse cheated. What was missing in the marriage that caused the spouse to cheat. There are some extenuating circumstances.
> 
> ...


I don't believe any spouse is "trapped". Divorce first, then **** around. 

"She's trapped so she cheats as a way to end the marriage and find someone else to transition to."

That's cake eating and immoral, disgusting behavior. 

There's never a good or justifiable reason to cheat. In the cheater's mind, sure. But not in real life.

Your spouse has a personality disorder? Leave them, THEN find someone else. Not the other way around. It's reprehensible and plain wrong, no matter what kind of shine you try to put on it.


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

8 months of false R after DD here depending on how you look at it. It could be argued 6 years of it. What bothered me most is we were working on the marriage. The marriage WAS better. She was not, nor was she really working on herself. Basically, there’s a saying in racing; “work on the nut behind the wheel”. She worked on the car, not the driver and still made the same mistakes.

What she basically did was around month 5, she started her EA back up deep underground. She did this undetected for 3 months while I was in full spy mode. Pre-paid calling card hidden in the framing of her vanity. Only dumb luck, trying to find floss + she didn’t wedge it well, and it fell out. I argued the time remaining with tech support and got the full call log. Her excuse? “You were making me feel like dirt and he could always cheer me up. I needed that.”

The way I would tell is the attitude and how she’s coping with other things in life. Mine continued to blame others for everything ‘wrong’. Never her fault. She never really owned how her actions might actually effect others. Lots of burying her head in the sand when you really rubbed her face in her mistakes no one else could take the fall for; even on the little stuff. The attitude was more like “you can’t judge me, I’ll show you!”... still a teenager type mentality. Still believing, even when shown how it has failed over and over, that her way should work. Same teenager mentality that it’s supposed to work like ‘this’ and refusal to believe the world isn’t that simple.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> Your spouse has a personality disorder? Leave them, THEN find someone else. Not the other way around. It's reprehensible and plain wrong, no matter what kind of shine you try to put on it.


If you left your wife, and you are happy with that decision, why are you here?

Shouldn't you be all happy and past everything by now?

Did you own up to your mistakes in the marriage, even though the cheating spouse is 100 percent wrong for cheating?

Your name is healer, what did you do to help your spouse heal?


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> If you left your wife, and you are happy with that decision, why are you here?
> 
> Shouldn't you be all happy and past everything by now?
> 
> ...


I don't owe you an explanation as to why I am here.

According to whom should I be "all happy and past everything by now"? Of course I'm not past everything. My wife cheated and destroyed my family and my children's lives were torn apart. What kind of soulless ******* would be "happy and past" that??

Did I own up to mistakes in my marriage? Ahhhh, none of your ****ing business, and that has nothing to do with anything.

To help my spouse heal?? Heal from what? And no, I have no intentions of helping her with anything. I'm divorcing her, not helping her.

Who is this guy?? 

And if we're going to analyze and get literal with usernames - you need to remove "remorseful" from yours.

Clearly you're a very defensive cheater, and one who enjoys pointing the finger at and blaming betrayed spouses. I have never come across someone so blatantly disrespectful and arrogant on this site. You are actually rather sadistic and it's clear you enjoy making betrayed spouses feel worse than they already do. No wonder you cheated on your wife. You haven't changed.


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## remorseful strayer (Nov 13, 2012)

Healer said:


> I don't owe you an explanation as to why I am here.
> 
> According to whom should I be "all happy and past everything by now"? Of course I'm not past everything. My wife cheated and destroyed my family and my children's lives were torn apart. What kind of soulless ******* would be "happy and past" that??
> 
> ...


Let's not hijack this thread. 

If you want to vent some of your anger at your wife on me. PM me. 

I already invited you to do that last time you hijacked a thread to ream me. 

I would love to talk to you by pm. Why do you prefer to hijack threads.


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## Healer (Jun 5, 2013)

remorseful strayer said:


> Let's not hijack this thread.
> 
> If you want to vent some of your anger at your wife on me. PM me.
> 
> ...


LOL. You hijacked this thread. I replied to your post in context with this thread - you made this personal and hijacked by typing this:


"If you left your wife, and you are happy with that decision, why are you here?

Shouldn't you be all happy and past everything by now?

Did you own up to your mistakes in the marriage, even though the cheating spouse is 100 percent wrong for cheating?

Your name is healer, what did you do to help your spouse heal?"

Nice try though! And yes, please stop sending me those creepy PM's. They give me the heebeegeebees.

Are you intentionally obtuse or is it just your nature?


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