# Wives leaving????



## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

Is it just me, or do others notice the increasing number of men posting that their wives left or want out of the marriage? What is up with this? Guess I’m kind of old school, so it’s shocking to see how many women are leaving their marriages for whatever reasons and not because they are in a marriage with an abusive or serial cheating husband.

I’m sort of starting to feel sorry for the men out there. Kinda liked the old fall back I could use of "All men are dogs!" That post divorce theory doesn't seem quite accurate anymore.


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## SockPuppet (May 16, 2011)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> I’m sort of starting to feel sorry for the men out there. Kinda liked the old fall back I could use of "All men are dogs!" That post divorce theory doesn't seem quite accurate anymore.


Women are becoming more likely to leave a depressing marriage because they have jobs and can support themselves.

I have noticed more women leaving than men.


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## Soccerfan73 (Jul 30, 2011)

Often times people are as loyal as their options.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm a woman and I didn't leave.


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## cherokee96red (Apr 23, 2011)

Woman, didn't leave and didn't cheat.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SockPuppet said:


> Women are becoming more likely to leave a depressing marriage because they have jobs and can support themselves.
> 
> I have noticed more women leaving than men.


Yes.

I also think there is a greater sense of entitlement going on these days.

A lot of men seem to be very Beta as well. Culturally I think the pendulum has swung where men have been brought up to be less Alpha. We have wanted boys to behave in school. We give them drugs to calm them down and get along.

What men find acceptable for thier wives behavior these days amazes me. They seem to accept very marginal activities and encourage their wives in scenarios that are big red flags. They act like they are trying to be too PC. They shudder at being accused of being controlling. Ultimately I think this drives women away. I am not saying a husband need to be over-bearing. Just be a man.

Add to this the whole social media thing. Wives are hooking up with old high school friends, personal trainers and so on.

We now start out marriages with bachelor/bachelelorette parties where the women feel that they need to match their perception of what men do. Which may or may not be the truth. So many get into the male stripper thing. For some this is a passing phase. For others it manifests itself in hanging out in these type of places or just in hanging out on GNOs with other men. My point here is really the attitude and not that women hang out at strip joints or bars. The attitude that it is ok for them to indulge their need for attention from men not their husband. The blame falls on the hubby who is home with the kids.

I am not minimizing your point because it is key. It just all works together.

There used to be a time when a man could be the bread winner and support his family. No longer. It takes two now. The economy is such that many men feel that even with two incomes they need to work long hours to support the family.

Work affairs are rampant. But I am seeing that being a SAHM these days makes many women get bored and the access to the internet is drawing them outside the marriage.

I am also seeing it very acceptable for women to continue acting single after their marriage. In other words continuing to party without thier hubby in bars and so on. It seems very accepted.

So men need to get the memo. It is no longer about working hard, staying faithful, being a good father and caring husband. Women want it all. They want this and their husband to be the fitest Alpha male available. Remember it is in women's nature to be turned on by the fitest male. For a husband to compete he needs to be there. 

I have changed my attitude in my marriage. My priorites.
I want to be these things for my wife in this order:

1) Her Lover
2) Her Best Male Friend
3) Her Husband

This has improved my marriage.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Entropy, I wish you could talk to my husband LOL His friends are single and douchey.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I'm a woman and I didn't leave.


Ummmmm. That does not make a trend. 

No one is saying all women do this. It is just that there seems to be a greater incidence of this. I would agree.

I think facebook alone has pushed up the number of affairs or at least feeling that the grass is greener somewhere else.

We did not have rampant texting years ago.

Everyone has a cell phone now. Everyone is on the internet.
We are all into instant gratification.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Entropy, I wish you could talk to my husband LOL His friends are single and douchey.


LOL. I talk a good game sometimes, but really I think men need to adapt.

That is why I think Athol's approach is very pragmatic. We can only change ourselves. We have to roll with it.

Who knew? Women want us to be .... MEN


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I have always wanted a real man. That's what I like about my husband, even though I effed up and didn't appreciate it or respect it for a while  But I do now.

You're right about Facebook and texting. Many of my friends have met their mates on FB. I think I'm the only one who met my husband in real life hahaah...

I think the trend of women leaving also comes with the fact that many women are the 'men' in the relationship. I know many of my female friends who financially support their husband...I don't agree with that. their men lose their balls and the women end up not respecting their men and ultimately leaving.


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## Locard (May 26, 2011)

It is a bunch of things. We have neutered our boys and empowered our girls. Media pushes the divorce fantasy. Two parent working homes are stressful. Lastly, The divorce theft industry is a well oiled machine.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I heard the other day that the adultery had had tripled since 1997, virtually the amount of time the home computer has been with us. Also, about how long the number one goal of education has been trying to instill an inflated sense of self worth rather than selflessness and taking care of others The self esteem thing. Also the media has almost made cheating as acceptable as drunkenness or pot smoking. 

One poll says 70 % percent of women say they would cheat if they knew they would get away with it.....if you add the ones that lied to the pollsters and added in an alcohol factor for GNOs etc. you can understand what you see going on around you. 

One thing I have noticed is that the wayward wives are not only not finding greener grass but no grass at all. Just loneliness ,getting older faster and especially fewer resources. No partner, an ex that hates them children with massive problems, etc. ad nauseum


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I have always wanted a real man. That's what I like about my husband, even though I effed up and didn't appreciate it or respect it for a while  But I do now.
> 
> You're right about Facebook and texting. Many of my friends have met their mates on FB. I think I'm the only one who met my husband in real life hahaah...
> 
> I think the trend of women leaving also comes with the fact that many women are the 'men' in the relationship. I know many of my female friends who financially support their husband...I don't agree with that. their men lose their balls and the women end up not respecting their men and ultimately leaving.


Good point. There is a lot of sensitivity these days about gender roles. As a society we are trying to figure this out. Guys need to have the right amount of Alpha / Beta but should not be afraid to be the man. A real man is not a controlling a-hole. He does not have to be. 

Also I think many guys are just lazy. Now women feel more confident and empowered and some men let women do it all. Big mistake. 

Women being confident and empowered is a good thing. Not something to suppress. We men just need to learn the dance.
It is a very darwinian though.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, men hardly ever approach women in life. They wait for the woman to make the 1st move, even if it's saying "hello" or whatever. This instantly takes the pants away from the man and gives them to the woman. He wasn't able to be the pursuer. Women are too forward, in my opinion, with men. I wasn't allowed to call boys when I was a teen HA! My gramma would let me call them back if they were to call but I couldn't chase them. She said boys and men like to chase. If you take that away from them, they will either be weak men or tire of you easily.

I have always been a little shy. My husband asked me out first, even though I did send little signs of flirting. I just wish I could take back the last year that I was the exact type of woman that I despise.  Oh well, time heals.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I heard the other day that the adultery had had tripled since 1997, virtually the amount of time the home computer has been with us. *Also, about how long the number one goal of education has been trying to instill an inflated sense of self worth rather than selflessness and taking care of others The self esteem thing.* Also the media has almost made cheating as acceptable as drunkenness or pot smoking.
> 
> *One poll says 70 % percent of women say they would cheat if they knew they would get away with it*.....if you add the ones that lied to the pollsters and added in an alcohol factor for GNOs etc. you can understand what you see going on around you.
> 
> One thing I have noticed is that the wayward wives are not only not finding greener grass but no grass at all. Just loneliness ,getting older faster and especially fewer resources. No partner, an ex that hates them children with massive problems, etc. ad nauseum


:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Wow. Great post. The ME generation. This may be the at the root of this. Sure I think it is important for people to have good self esteem, but maybe we forgot about character ....


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Locard said:


> It is a bunch of things. We have neutered our boys and empowered our girls. Media pushes the divorce fantasy. Two parent working homes are stressful. Lastly, The divorce theft industry is a well oiled machine.


"Two parent working homes are stressful." 


Two parent working homes are paradise compared to two single parent shared custody homes that are at each others throats. And how about those regular trips back to court. I'll bet that's stressful. I know custody battles so bad the kids have to be picked up at police stations.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Locard said:


> It is a bunch of things. *We have neutered our boys and empowered our girls. * Media pushes the divorce fantasy. Two parent working homes are stressful. Lastly, The divorce theft industry is a well oiled machine.


Yes. I completely agree with what I bolded.

In my classroom, my girls run the show and the boys just accept it for being how it should be. (5th grade).

I don't let my kids watch TV shows where the wife has the husband whipped. It just isn't healthy (like Everybody Loves Raymond). I dont want them to think that is what marriage is like.

Although now I wonder if I've ruined them anyway for what's going on now...


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I heard the other day that the adultery had had tripled since 1997, virtually the amount of time the home computer has been with us. Also, about how long the number one goal of education has been trying to instill an inflated sense of self worth rather than selflessness and taking care of others The self esteem thing. Also the media has almost made cheating as acceptable as drunkenness or pot smoking.
> 
> One poll says 70 % percent of women say they would cheat if they knew they would get away with it.....if you add the ones that lied to the pollsters and added in an alcohol factor for GNOs etc. you can understand what you see going on around you.


Which poll? Seriously and I'm sure there are polls that would tell us 80% of men would cheat if they could get away with it. A poll is not a study, and I'd love to see the source of it.


> One thing I have noticed is that the wayward wives are not only not finding greener grass but no grass at all. Just loneliness ,getting older faster and especially fewer resources. No partner, an ex that hates them children with massive problems, etc. ad nauseum


I don't really think this is the case.


More women do opt out of marriage then men. Many have agonized over it for years. I really think men need to start listening to what women are telling them about their own lives and truths. Many women post on this forum after years and years of trying and asking and begging and pleading with their husbands to help save their marriages, and because they are miserable.

Also stats do show that men still cheat more often then women, yes some women leave for other men, but mostly they leave because they have been unhappy for years and got sick of feeling like they were talking to brick wall.

We also see posts on here from men who say "I have treated my wife terribly for years, ignored her needs, been a jerk etc" and when the wife has suddenly said she can try no more, suddenly the man will do ANYTHING to make it work.

I know plenty of women who have moved on and are definitely not lonely, they are either remarried or living life to the full as single women.

At the end of the day, both men and women need to be looking at what they can do to be a loving, caring, good spouse, without being a doormat and try their best to meet their partners needs, or they will probably end up divorced regardless of what is between their legs.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

that_girl said:


> Well, men hardly ever approach women in life. They wait for the woman to make the 1st move, even if it's saying "hello" or whatever. This instantly takes the pants away from the man and gives them to the woman. He wasn't able to be the pursuer. Women are too forward, in my opinion, with men. I wasn't allowed to call boys when I was a teen HA! My gramma would let me call them back if they were to call but I couldn't chase them. She said boys and men like to chase. If you take that away from them, they will either be weak men or tire of you easily.
> 
> I have always been a little shy. My husband asked me out first, even though I did send little signs of flirting. I just wish I could take back the last year that I was the exact type of woman that I despise.  Oh well, time heals.


We are human. We get off track sometimes. We fall. It is about getting up and not giving up.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Syrum said:


> Which poll? Seriously and I'm sure there are polls that would tell us 80% of men would cheat if they could get away with it. A poll is not a study, and I'd love to see the source of it.
> 
> I don't really think this is the case.
> 
> ...


He was talking about women leaving. The actual numbers were:

68% for women and 75% for men. This is not about bashing women. It is about why we see a greater incidence of women leaving marriages. 

It is about what has changed.

I challenge that men cheat more than women now. Maybe ten years ago. I think for argument sake lets just say it is even now. Which is a delta. A change. A trend.

I am making an assumption that may be wrong. That is that many men have been bad to women. That that number has not increased. Women just do not have to put up with it any more.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Women are taking the playbook from men. The girls night out, drinkIng, casual sex, affairs walking away from husband and kids. It is not that women do not have it in them to do these things in the past it that there was little oppurtunity. Now woman work, they are not financially dependent on men. 

A previous poster emphasized that women who leave die alone. The differences between the relationship lives of men and women are not that different these days. If women are without partnes so are men. There are not enough 20 yr old hotties to supply every divorced man that thinks he will have a better post divorce life than his wife. Not many woman want to be with a divorced man with 50% custody of kids and child support payments unless she herself is in the same position. 

Men are just as likely to find tumbleweed as are women. It is convenient to trot out this old tale of woe for woman. It is an attempt to regain control. If a woman's prospects were so bad, why would any leave a marriage? They didn't pre 1950 because they knew the odds were against them. In reality, the odds are not against woman who leave no more than the odds are against men. The old controls are gone even the mind control. Just look around you - who are divorced men having relationships with? Who are they marrying? 

I think a relationship should never be left for frivolous reasons. When there are kids the efforts should be 10 fold more. Neither gender gets a pass on responsibilities to maintain the union. neither should regard their partner as a throw away.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Syrum said:


> Which poll? Seriously and I'm sure there are polls that would tell us 80% of men would cheat if they could get away with it. A poll is not a study, and I'd love to see the source of it.
> 
> I don't really think this is the case.
> 
> ...


Entropy has already given you the 68% 74% figures. I heard it on a radio show then googled 68% of women. It took me forever because I thought it was 65%.


In the rest of your post you could just as easily have reversed men with women and come to the same conclusion. Your last paragraph would still be right on. Communication is the problem. How you get there is the trick.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Women are taking the playbook from men. The girls night out, drinkIng, casual sex, affairs walking away from husband and kids. It is not that women do not have it in them to do these things in the past it that there was little oppurtunity. Now woman work, they are not financially dependent on men.
> 
> A previous poster emphasized that women who leave die alone. The differences between the relationship lives of men and women are not that different these days. If women are without partnes so are men. There are not enough 20 yr old hotties to supply every divorced man that thinks he will have a better post divorce life than his wife. Not many woman want to be with a divorced man with 50% custody of kids and child support payments unless she herself is in the same position.
> 
> ...


:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

"Just look around you - who are divorced men having relationships with? Who are they marrying?"

I see fewer men looking to remarry. If you want a shock, start asking the men you know what kind of woman they would want to marry if something happened to their wife. I keep hearing they would never get married again. I'm also assuming this is an exaggeration but still..........

On the cheating side, stats say 97 to 99% of cheating couples can not sustain a marriage. Only 10% can sustain a long term relationship. 

Just to throw in another stat 80% of couples that divorce over adultery wish they had worked it out and not divorced. So I'm sure most move on but what else can they do?


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I will never marry again if something should happen to my husband.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

"It is convenient to trot out this old tale of woe for woman."

Its woe for men and women


"It is an attempt to regain control."

BS political correctness run amok.

" If a woman's prospects were so bad, why would any leave a marriage?"

Poor thinking skills, lack of self discipline. Thinking life is so hard in the modern world when actually we're living in the Golden age of civilization.

" They didn't pre 1950 because they knew the odds were against them. In reality, the odds are not against woman who leave no more than the odds are against men."

In the 50's the sexes had fairly defined roles. It wasn't a question. 
Women held the family together men provided. Women were the brake on men's behavior. Have you noticed how the more revealing young women are dressing now the more young men are covering up. Wearing layered shirts in the summertime short pants that are way below the knee, even to the ankle in some instances, sagging not withstanding. Even men's swimsuits are below the knee some even wearing shirts to swim in. the tighter girl's clothing gets the baggier the boys clothes get LOL

"The old controls are gone even the mind control."

ROTFLMAO


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

I would have loved to have been a 1950s housewife.

Don't kill me for saying that.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

that_girl said:


> I would have loved to have been a 1950s housewife.
> 
> Don't kill me for saying that.




How about those clothes and the hairdos. I thought June Cleaver was the coolest mom.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

chapparal said:


> How about those clothes and the hairdos. I thought June Cleaver was the coolest mom.


Omg...I love the clothing and hair :rofl: I do!

I just think it was easier back then.

I find it difficult to switch off my role of power in my career, in order to be the wife I want to be when I get home.

My husband is a powerful being. He is considerate and genuine in his approach too so it's easy to want to have a hot meal on the table at 7  

My friends laugh at me for my ideals. I lost them for a while...funny, that's when my husband became unhappy. Hmmmm...coinkidink? I think not.


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## sprinter (Jul 25, 2011)

Mine left me. Much better off without her.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

That girl why! 
My Mom was a SAHM. She did not drive, had no money of her own, my father took her everywhere she needed to go. She did not even go grocery shopping on her own he liked going with her. He was a wonderful provder, worked hard, gave us all what he thought we needed. He did his part according to the standards he set. He make it happen, he was king of his domain and we were his dependants. For my father it was paradise, for my mother hell. 

That was my experience of family life. But it is not the norm. I noticed as i came to know the would better that, the overwhelming majority of men are keen to provide for their family and to please the woman they select for a partner and to make everybody happy. I am convinced that this desire is as real as a women's biological clock.

When the person with power in the family corrupts the advantage and if there are no checks and balances we hear horror stories or women and kids exist in quiet desperation for decades. The feminist revolution was an attempt to balance the power to provide disincentives for abuse. It was never meant to be a general invective against men since they have been husbanding generations of humans for centuries. If they were so evil we would not have survived. 

I think the need for balance also grew out of the sense of frustration over the unfairness of restrictions placed on women developing their talents. Men as a group would not make it right so women did. So now women and men are at each others necks pointing fingers. 

This is what we have. No man or woman is wn island. Each wicked thing I say or do directed St men comes back to me. I have a son and a husband I love. That is why I am trying to purify my thoughts so that I can guide my son and be a good wife to my husband. 

There is no divide between men and women. How is it possible to separate the head and the tail of a coin? If you did it would cease to be a coin. We have to get this right if not to us then for our kids. Everything I think about men I think about my son. Is that how I want him to be treated? I would say the same for everyone. If you think women are evil and deserve to be alone or under the control of a man then think of your daughters and make sure that is the life you see for them. 

Everything we do should be seen through the prism of our kids because they will ultimately live in the mess we are creating. The porn thing, romance tales, the outsized expectations that young women have for men these days, the same for young men, the assumption that male sexuality is dirty, that female sexuality is dirty. You cannot expect change one half of the coin if you cannot see the change that is needed on the other. We end up spinning like a coin on it's edge. 

Probably has nothing to do with this thread but I feel better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Confused_and_bitter (Aug 6, 2011)

Entropy Oh how I wish you could talk to my husband!! LOL


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

I'm a bit of a news and human affairs junkie. Read about the results of studies and changing society all the time. Part of it is because of being a writer. Part of it is just because I sleep so little. Ever notice how it is politically correct to suggest that society is neutering men, but not politicaly correct to suggest that we men are becomming more selfish, juvenile, and incapable of communicating with women?

Its easy to dwell on what is going wrong with women in all of these cases of infidelity. I don't disagree with some of them either. However, outside of a few of the men I've come to know on sites like this, many men I know are just so bland, so unwilling to be a real man in how they live their lives, and just too scared to tell their wives that they will join hands and face the marital issues with directness, instead of just pretending that nothing is wrong. What is there to respect about this?

I was in a leadership seminar once about this. The instructor was talking about how there seem to be more men who are reared without the tools to be bold and expressive. He called them the "shades of Gray", and was encouraging us to live in color. His point was that we needed to be passionate about life, and that this was something that was really missing among men.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Halien,

I have no doubt that you are correct.

I embraced that message wholeheartedly - for roughly 30 years - with absolutely disastrous "personal" results.

Of course, my career has done very well. I can fix damned near anything. I have situational assessment powers far beyond those of nearly everyone I encounter.

Yet, this same "living in color" chased away nearly everyone important to me, as I lacked the necessary emotional control.

If you live passionately, you MUST NOT ACT passionately - except in the appropriate environment.

And, that environment is well known to those who discuss it endlessly here.


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## Syrum (Feb 22, 2011)

Halien said:


> I'm a bit of a news and human affairs junkie. Read about the results of studies and changing society all the time. Part of it is because of being a writer. Part of it is just because I sleep so little. Ever notice how it is politically correct to suggest that society is neutering men, but not politicaly correct to suggest that we men are becomming more selfish, juvenile, and incapable of communicating with women?
> 
> Its easy to dwell on what is going wrong with women in all of these cases of infidelity. I don't disagree with some of them either. However, outside of a few of the men I've come to know on sites like this, many men I know are just so bland, so unwilling to be a real man in how they live their lives, and just too scared to tell their wives that they will join hands and face the marital issues with directness, instead of just pretending that nothing is wrong. What is there to respect about this?
> 
> I was in a leadership seminar once about this. The instructor was talking about how there seem to be more men who are reared without the tools to be bold and expressive. He called them the "shades of Gray", and was encouraging us to live in color. His point was that we needed to be passionate about life, and that this was something that was really missing among men.


Very well said. :iagree:

If you want a good marriage you must communicate with your wife and be a good leader and be wonderfully passionate with her.

There all problems solved.


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Why? Because it is what I love to do  On my summers off, it's what I do--- except this summer 

I would probably work a little bit cause the kids are in school.

I just know that during the summer, i am happier and my family is happier. 

Plus, I like the aprons. LOL

My mom stayed home with me until I as 12. It was good. She drove, was independent...it was good.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Halien and Conrad I don't understand what you are talking about exactly. The meaning eludes me can you explain. I understand that boys are thought to hide their emotions as acceptable male behavior. If they don't they will not succeed among their peers.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Catherine,

I always hesitate to be blunt about this because it's so easy to misperceive it as "victim speak".

YET - masculinity is not celebrated in our culture. In fact, the constant media drumbeat of how we must suppress our tendencies towards sex and violence largely amount to a war on male vice - and male vice only. If an alien were to visit our culture, he'd believe that women have no real issues and only men struggle with imperfections.

So - here's the nub of what Halien is talking about. We cannot be truly effective without passion. Nothing would ever get invented. People would not strive. They'd sit back and seek out their own comfort and never make the effort to excel. Life simply MUST be lived in color for us to have the deep satisfactions that make life worth living.

Being male is not bad at all. In fact, sometimes our own narrow view (and it is - by nature - more narrow than the female perspective) makes us BETTER leaders - as we don't get paralyzed by all the things that "might" go wrong. We don't sit around all day "planning" how to make money, we just go out and get it done. The hunter gatherer thing.

If you buy in to the media template, "Domestic violence cases rise by nearly 40% during the Super Bowl telecast" - or some other useless propaganda - largely amounting to lies from those with a political agenda - you'd be tempted to believe males are just a burden on society as a whole - and should remain as small as possible. In other words, one CAN receive these commandments as "do what she says" and "stay out of trouble".

Would such a man make a good partner?

I think you know the answer.



Catherine602 said:


> Halien and Conrad I don't understand what you are talking about exactly. The meaning eludes me can you explain. I understand that boys are thought to hide their emotions as acceptable male behavior. If they don't they will not succeed among their peers.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Women are taking the playbook from men. The girls night out, drinkIng, casual sex, affairs walking away from husband and kids. It is not that women do not have it in them to do these things in the past it that there was little oppurtunity. Now woman work, they are not financially dependent on men.
> 
> A previous poster emphasized that women who leave die alone. The differences between the relationship lives of men and women are not that different these days. If women are without partnes so are men. There are not enough 20 yr old hotties to supply every divorced man that thinks he will have a better post divorce life than his wife. Not many woman want to be with a divorced man with 50% custody of kids and child support payments unless she herself is in the same position.
> 
> ...


This is a really excellent post. I agree.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

chapparal said:


> I see fewer men looking to remarry. If you want a shock, start asking the men you know what kind of woman they would want to marry if something happened to their wife. I keep hearing they would never get married again.


It's well documented that many more divorced men remarry than divorced women.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## that_girl (Jul 6, 2011)

Jellybeans said:


> It's well documented that many more divorced men remarry than women.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


And much sooner! Omgosh! Within 1 year of divorce I have seen 3 male friends remarry.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I always hesitate to be blunt about this because it's so easy to misperceive it as "victim speak".
> 
> ...


If there was one word that described my life, it is passion. If I find something worth doing, I become passionate about it. It is the proverbial double edged sword. This however is why I have throughout my career been provided the most critical and cutting edge projects. Not bragging here. I have an affinity to projects that cannot be done because they have never been done. I live for these. It takes passion. When in a leadership position I have always instilled my direct reports an attitude of we can do this. I have selected people who could work this way. Passionate people. Passionate people can succeed where others fail. 

Being passionate has its costs however. It is not always rewarded. Passionate people care. So you have to be in position where passion is rewarded. Where caring is rewarded. People who care these days in the IT industry for example are often told to stop caring. i.e. let this be off shored, we don't care that quality suffers, our stock went up temporarily, it will be someone elses problem later. Few people are accountable these days and only care about the short term.

I still believe that having passion is the way to go. It is just not rewarded as much and many people are encouraged to be selfish. Just part of the ME generation thing perhaps.

Another problem with passion is that you have to select what you become passionate about. One has to be passionate about ones marriage. If not, it will at least be sub optimal and under the current stresses of life it probably will just flat fail.

I have a female project manager. I am the lead technical engineer. She is perhaps the best PM I have ever worked with. BUT, she is way, way too mutitasking. I have had to be firm with her in that at some point one must focus on an area, develop it, finish it, learn from it and move onto the next piece. I am an iterative agile developer type. Anyway, I get things done. I liken things to being in the pocket. Keep your focus on wehat you can control. Find the receiver and hit them with the ball. Do not get happy feet. To deal with complexity you use abstraction. I do things in methodical phases. I complete things and build on them. You do not work all aspects of a problem in parallel. Why? Because likely much of what you are woking on will change anyway. Wasted effort. Anyway, I think like a guy. I can multitask but if you are worried about evrything all the time, that lion is going to kill you.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

Entropy,

With your moniker, I'm not surprised you get this.

When one gets passionate about something, you are just as likely to drive others AWAY as toward you. That's why guys like us are so much better when the "shix" hits the fan.

Others are far too timorous and reticent to step forward. People want leaders at that point.

When the "shix" isn't hitting the fan? People often use anothers passion as a reason to shun, ridicule, or dismiss them.

This is why I cite the emotional control advocated by the men on this board. It's even MORE important for those of us with a real passion for life - especially in these times.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Entropy,
> 
> With your moniker, I'm not surprised you get this.
> 
> ...


This is exactly it. Thank you so very much for getting what I was trying to say. So passion is key, but having the wisdom to control it is very important. Choose wisely. I have not always done so.

Sometimes passionate people are considered politically dangerous when they are not engaged fighting the fight. I actually get that.


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## SimplyAmorous (Nov 25, 2009)

Entropy3000 said:


> One has to be passionate about ones marriage. If not, it will at least be sub optimal and under the current stresses of life it probably will just flat fail.


 Passion quotes are my favorite !


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If you are just passionate about your work ... and building Camelot ... you just might be too busy for her. She may just find her Lancelot while you are out slaying dragons.

Sigh.

So the balance that I am seeking and have found to some degree after so many years is to make my marriage the #1 priority while also being passionate about slaying those dragons that keep us fed, clothed and in our home.

I have had many jobs, that were great in their own way, but I have only been married to one woman. I think I made the right choice with this.

I truly believe that while I have worked hard that the reason we are still together is less about me and more about her. I made a good choice. I was lucky. But for the grace of God there go I. I have upped my game. I think there were times where I was so focused on slaying those dragons a lesser woman would have found her comfort elsewhere. If she has she has hidden it well. This is part of what draws me here. Guys making the same mistakes I have made. Just not so lucky. I also realize that this is never done. You cannot take each other for granted. Women leave after 5, 10, 20 and 30+ years. So this stuff is a wakeup call for me.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Passion quotes are my favorite !


Words to live by.


And Guiness.


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## marksaysay (Oct 15, 2010)

It has been stated over and over how many women have nagged, complained, begged, and pleaded for years prior to leaving or having an affair or whatever. While I can't say I disagree, but I also believe that men are less vocal and more tolerable nowadays when their needs go unmet. During this complaining by women, do they ever objectively look at HOW they are complaining? Do they look to see if some of their own actions may contribute to their needs not being met? 

Newtons law says "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Examples: wife says she doesn't get affection (her #1 need) but yet refuses to give husband sex (his #1 need) or uses it as a punishment or reward for something he does or does not do. OR she says hubby won't talk to me but she refuses his requests to enjoy some kind of recreational activity together (either something he likes, something she likes, or something they can learn to like together) without friends, kids, or family because this creates more opportunity for engaging conversation. 

No one disagrees that it takes 2 to create a marriage and 2 to destroy a marriage. But when a wife leaves, it's always his fault. What happened to the it takes 2 theory? Enquiring minds want to know...
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## AFEH (May 18, 2010)

SimplyAmorous said:


> Passion quotes are my favorite !


Yes but after 42 years of it I got a headache.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> It has been stated over and over how many women have nagged, complained, begged, and pleaded for years prior to leaving or having an affair or whatever. While I can't say I disagree, but I also believe that men are less vocal and more tolerable nowadays when their needs go unmet. During this complaining by women, do they ever objectively look at HOW they are complaining? Do they look to see if some of their own actions may contribute to their needs not being met?
> 
> Newtons law says "for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Examples: wife says she doesn't get affection (her #1 need) but yet refuses to give husband sex (his #1 need) or uses it as a punishment or reward for something he does or does not do. OR she says hubby won't talk to me but she refuses his requests to enjoy some kind of recreational activity together (either something he likes, something she likes, or something they can learn to like together) without friends, kids, or family because this creates more opportunity for engaging conversation.
> 
> ...


It does seem to be that way. Even when a wife shatters her vows with another man. There is a stigma on the husband. It is his fault. If he cheats ... he is a pig. We forget that history gets rewritten.

I put the effort on men only because it is not helpful to blame women. You can only improve yourself. It is possible for a husband to be better and that will take care of the majority of issues. He just needs to know what he needs to do to be better. These guys seem to be putting great effort into the wrong things. Wives say husbands need to listen. Very true. But you have to be able to translate it into something a man can understand. So we need to understand what women mean ... not just what they say. Sorry, without a program it can be tough on our simple brains. LOL. It takes work. I go out of my way to talk more with my wife than I used to. Men can almost communicate in grunts with each other.

Some people are sucking eddys of despair and black holes of never ending need and are not givers, just takers.

"The love you take is equal to the love you make .... "


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

Conrad Yes, I have to agree with much of what you say. I have had many underlying issues and misconceptions that I never expressed until I posted them on TAM. I knew they were crazy thats why i never expressed them. 

I did not think they influenced my behavior but thry must have and never acted on them but they must have in some ways because now I think so totally different. I am certain many women derive positive benefits by posting or just reading. 

Getting them out in the light and the unbelievably kind and tolerant respnses from the men and women here helped me kill them many of them. Still more to go. You helped me a great deal Conrad I will never forget that even though I don't know you I send you grateful prayers. 

It is politically accetable to consider men as a blight on society. This was in stark relief with the reaction to the story of men who have had tgeir genitals mutilated by women. Women on a popular TV show actually made light of it and made negative comments about men in general. These women were not fired they did not even discuss the how reprehensible their behavior was. this must have made men angry. 

Men are not as vocal about these things as are women. They seem to suffer in silence and just suck it up. Many things of this nature take daily. The commercial are appalling; they present men as bumping idiots and women as all knowing. If it were the other way around the advertisers whole get a lambasting of epic proportin. But men just suck it up as part of not seeming weak by complaining. 

I did not notice this until it was brought to my attention by things that I read from male bloggers. Violence against men and domestic violence against men is ignored and men suck it up because they are seen as weak if tgry are abused. 

There is no support for male rape victims, it goes unreported in the great majarity of cases. Emotional abuse of men is not seen as a serious problem. The men suffering this fate often suffer in silence and blame themselves for letting it happen. 

Impossible economic demands on men by their family makes them kill themselves by over work. Is a 3000 sf house better than a 2000 sf home. Suppose it meant that the man could work 20 hrs a week less to forgo a doulbe vanity in the master bath. Sexual starvation of men in marriage. 

Men get convinced that something is wrong with them because they sustain their sexually attracted to their wife. But women go out of their way to attract the same sexual attention they reject from their husbands. The belief in farytales and dissappointnet when a man does not live up to the "and then they lived happily ever after", the complaints and critizems when he does not live up to romatic hero ideal. 

There is more. If women were as vocal against male abuse, unfair expectations of farytale life in marriage, and lack understanding of male sexuality as they are when similar female issues, it would go a long way towards healing the devide. 

I am vocal about my new knowledge about men in my female circles and direct them to TAM. Many women express misunderstanding of their husbands sexual desire. I suggest books they might read to understand and be happier. His needs, Her needs is on our book list in my club this year. 

There are things that women need men to be more vocal about but that for another thread. Someone has to get the ball rolling and it just take one gender to make a change.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Conrad said:


> Catherine,
> 
> I always hesitate to be blunt about this because it's so easy to misperceive it as "victim speak".
> 
> ...


Conrad explains it so much better than I. I'll add that when it comes to relationships, we men can easily think that the best way to be a good husband is just by being nice, and also avoiding the scary discussions that come along when she feels like the two of them are drifting apart. 

Why must we be afraid to dive into the relationship with the full extent of our passion? Why be ashamed of embarassing ourselves? 

To give a parallel, many men are deathly afraid of public speaking. We don't feel comfortable going out of our comfort zone. I'm only suggesting that for many men, dancing with our wives in a fancy restaraunt is too far out of our comfort zone. Writing real poetry in a birthday card often is too. My first two cards were published in a NE journal after my SIL sent them in. Its acceptable to be passionate about our work, but the TV often gets our passion at home. Recognizing this, I promised my wife that we would not have a TV for the first five years of the marriage, and never turn it on more after that than one or two nights a week.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

If I get hurt I rub dirt on it. Suck it up and fight. It is not acceptable to crumble and cry. People count on me, I cannot let them down. My pain matters not. I must take care of my family at all costs.

If I fall, I get up and continue to fight.

If things are in disarray, I am the man and it is my responsibility to fix it and make it right.

If there is injustice it is on me to correct it. If I do not act no one else will.

If given a choice of life and death I am to sacrifice mine to save my loved ones without hesitation.

Don't expect a fair shake but give one.

My word is my bond. I do what I say I am going to do.

Yes, I even believe in chivalry. That still works here in Texas.

A man who preys on the weak is not a man.

Never, ever, ever, hit or mistreat a woman.

Love your wife greater than yourself. ( This can lead to the whole pedastal thing. It does not have to ). Treat her as an equal, but lead when you should.

---

Yes arkane stuff. Old school for sure. But I was not brought up to be selfish. I had to get that on my own. 

The biggest issue for me has been that for some reason I have assumed that my wife understands my thought s and motivations without me speaking. This of course is wrong and I have taken steps to verbalize my feelings more. That is not natural for me. My role is to take action and get things done. I am learning ...

----

I am not saying all men feel this way or should or were brought up this way. But I was brought up this way and it is something I have at my center. I am at peace with it. I reserve the right to be cynical however.

My dad and I have had a rocky past. A few years back when I travelled home as he was dying of cancer I was there for him anyway. When he was gone there was a hospice counselor that chatted with me and she made good sense. She told me how I was going to feel. She explained that my Irish Catholic blue collar ancestry would dictate much of this. It was good for me and it helped me grieve. 

I rolled around in it. Even cried for the first time in decades. I rubbed some dirt on it and came back to my family. It was cathartic going home at all.


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## TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore (Apr 7, 2011)

marksaysay said:


> No one disagrees that it takes 2 to create a marriage and 2 to destroy a marriage. But when a wife leaves, it's always his fault. What happened to the it takes 2 theory? Enquiring minds want to know...
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


I have also noticed that more men will feel or state how “He” failed the marriage. Even when the wife leaves. Men also appear more likely to say, “I screwed up!” when the marriage ends due to his desires or actions.

I’m a woman and from what I’ve seen and heard, women do not do that as often. Women don’t want to admit if they were a sucky wife. A lot of women want to justify their actions for leaving. They will stick to their stories and almost frighteningly so. 

Don’t get me wrong. Many men want to justify their bad choices also. It just seems more often the men eventually turn a corner and more openly take ownership of screwing up. A man may not convey or elaborate on the details and he may just throw out the “I screwed up,” but at least there’s some acknowledgement.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> I have also noticed that more men will feel or state how “He” failed the marriage. Even when the wife leaves. Men also appear more likely to say, “I screwed up!” when the marriage ends due to his desires or actions.
> 
> I’m a woman and from what I’ve seen and heard, women do not do that as often. Women don’t want to admit if they were a sucky wife. A lot of women want to justify their actions for leaving. They will stick to their stories and almost frighteningly so.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong. Many men want to justify their bad choices also. It just seems more often the men eventually turn a corner and more openly take ownership of screwing up. A man may not convey or elaborate on the details and he may just throw out the “I screwed up,” but at least there’s some acknowledgement.


I may not have caused the problems but I will hold myself accountable. Most guys do this and have to learn it was not their fault alone. We think we should be able to fix anything. Ego maybe.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

TotoWeRNotInKansasAnymore said:


> I have also noticed that more men will feel or state how “He” failed the marriage. Even when the wife leaves. Men also appear more likely to say, “I screwed up!” when the marriage ends due to his desires or actions.
> 
> I’m a woman and from what I’ve seen and heard, women do not do that as often. Women don’t want to admit if they were a sucky wife. A lot of women want to justify their actions for leaving. They will stick to their stories and almost frighteningly so.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong. Many men want to justify their bad choices also. It just seems more often the men eventually turn a corner and more openly take ownership of screwing up. A man may not convey or elaborate on the details and he may just throw out the “I screwed up,” but at least there’s some acknowledgement.


This is so true. You can also read the post on TAM to see that trend; we don't have a representative sample to make broud generalization but of the post post from men and women, the men have a tendency to blame themselves and the women blame the men. I think I read that male suicide is more common after a divorce than female suicide.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> This is so true. You can also read the post on TAM to see that trend; we don't have a representative sample to make broud generalization but of the post post from men and women, the men have a tendency to blame themselves and the women blame the men. I think I read that male suicide is more common after a divorce than female suicide.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Catherine, as you and I have chatted it is disconcerting to see the continued rift between men and women. We both believe that the difference between them actually makes the pair better than either alone. 

How we raise and teach our young boys and girls is key to their ability to live together or wether this rift will grow. Rather than embrace the diversity in males and females and see the strengths they bring to the table there is a movemnet to supress gender. I think this is a big mistake. We have let down our children so far. The traits that we attribute to a positve male behavior are often supressed in the schools. Sigh. I don't see this getting better any time soon. I hope I am wrong.

Time to stop blaming Eve for that freaking apple. It was a couples joint decision. Deal with it. Women are obviously not happy with these men the way they are. So lets prepare our children to understand what each provides in a relationship and how they can empower their partner. How should they communicate. That they ned to be accountable. It cannot be the most selfish wins. We all lose then.

Lets teach kids about relationships. Not just Sex ED and birth control.


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## whatonearthnow (Aug 20, 2011)

firstly - this thread is a good read

Has anyone got a thought on which gender is more susceptible to EA's (and the subsequent PA's) in this current constantly connected environment? 

As a male (not saying man as compared to the strength of some comments in here i feel almost anemic) I would never dream of talking to other people about my feelings or about anything that was going on in my marriage.

Females seem to talk about everything to everyone they trust, and i wonder if the ease of this communication has allowed them to talk to OM about these issues easier and more discretely than before anything with a flaming FB logo on it - with the communication leading to an EA / PA whereby they realise they are not happy and leave...

Having lead a 'Shades of Grey' existence for ages - i can admit to doing things for an easy/quiet life - btw this appears to not work...

As for the comment about 'Sex starving men in marriage' - that hits home


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Females may very well be susceptable to the attention gained from social media more than men. But they are communicating with some guy on the other end. They are not all single men either. But some women are bored and easy prey for some predators.

I was in an EA some time ago. It happened at work. We were working very long and very intense hours. I was the technical AMOG. A very young, good looking and brilliant female Engineer started meeting some of my needs. I guess I was meeting some of hers too. We were literally just friends. BUT it did turn into an EA. My wife caught it and pulled me from the abyss. I thought I was superman. It turned out I met my kryptonite. No excuses. I needed better boundaries. I was naive and just looked forward to being with her. Sigh. I was an idiot. But men can readily fall into EAs at work.


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## whatonearthnow (Aug 20, 2011)

You are incredibly insightful

I have a similar work ethic to you ent by the sounds of it - solving complex problems in ways that would make others flee and enjoying it, but starting to think about
my actions - I think I became a bit of a controlling know it all as in always showing I thought I knew best - it's hard to switch off when the attitude is occasionally needed at work

It's a good point you raise about there being an OM at the other end of any EA
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

whatonearthnow said:


> You are incredibly insightful
> 
> I have a similar work ethic to you ent by the sounds of it - solving complex problems in ways that would make others flee and enjoying it, but starting to think about
> my actions - I think I became a bit of a controlling know it all as in always showing I thought I knew best - it's hard to switch off when the attitude is occasionally needed at work
> ...


It is Yin and Yang. All things we do have good and bad with it. Every blessing can become a curse. A curse can be turned into a victory. It is how we choose to deal with it all. The double edged sword.

The thing is we all bring different things to the table. We just need the wisdom on how to apply our strengths and deal with our weaknesses. I wish I knew 20 years ago what I know now. But of course it is the way of things. The takeaway for people with that work ethic is ... put your marriage first. Then build Camelot. Anything else is lazy and indulgent. I am among the worst sinners here for this.

And to this day, it chills me to think of myself as the OM. I have only recently forgiven myself completely at the urging of my wife. I am at my base a good person. So my message is that even good people can have weak times and fall into an EA. I am not mimimizing this in anyway. I am suggesting that we cannot be arrogant and play games with this. It is too easy to start having needs met. I no longer believe in having close personal oppostie sex friends. I know I cannot do that now. I am a better person now. More compassionate and more forgiving of others flaws. 

I know in my heart part of why I am here on this forum is to help others not fall into what I have. It is a penance I suppose. I would like others to learn from my mistakes.

I had to forgive myself to be the husband my wife deserves.

As the ballad goes "oh mama tell your children not to do what I have done"


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## LovesHerMan (Jul 28, 2011)

I love your posts, Entropy! It is good to get the perspective of a man in a long term marriage who loves his wife. I think we are all wired to have have affairs under the right conditions. We need strict boundaries with the opposite sex to protect our marriages.


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## Catherine602 (Oct 14, 2010)

lovesherman said:


> I love your posts, Entropy! It is good to get the perspective of a man in a long term marriage who loves his wife. I think we are all wired to have have affairs under the right conditions. We need strict boundaries with the opposite sex to protect our marriages.


Me too!! :smthumbup:

It is so easy to get sucked into an E/PA if you are not aware of the how they start. Also, playing with fire by participating in activities that puts you in harms way.


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## walkawaywife (May 24, 2011)

i left after fifteen years. no one on the outside saw it coming. i asked for help over and over. i wanted to fix it. my husband wouldn't have sex with me, preferred porn, and would tell me that i was just looking for things to ***** about when i brought it up and wanted to fix it. this went on at least five years. a week before our fifteenth anniversary he told me to go get a boyfriend cause he wouldn't care. i eventually did. but that didn't work out. i still don't regret it. so, men....this is why your wives are leaving you.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Catherine602 said:


> Conrad Yes, I have to agree with much of what you say. I have had many underlying issues and misconceptions that I never expressed until I posted them on TAM. I knew they were crazy thats why i never expressed them.
> 
> I did not think they influenced my behavior but thry must have and never acted on them but they must have in some ways because now I think so totally different. I am certain many women derive positive benefits by posting or just reading.
> 
> ...


WOW! You go girl! Seriously. You are on a roll ... This is great stuff.

It is all good but the bold is just so darned insightful. The irony in this. It is so true. Profound even.


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## Halien (Feb 20, 2011)

Entropy3000 said:


> The takeaway for people with that work ethic is ... put your marriage first. Then build Camelot. Anything else is lazy and indulgent. I am among the worst sinners here for this.


After confronting a former boss who wanted me in the office all the time, I thought that he would kill my career. Over time, though, he said that he realized how inneffecient he was. Fortunately, I work for a company that feels like the key to sucess is through employees who understand balance, and have strong relationships outside of marriage. He still jokes about the minor earthquake we had. We were in a upper floor, so it shook pretty bad. My boss told my wife that while everyone was running and screaming, I was typing an email to a supplier on my laptop with the right hand and eating my ham sandwich with the left. I just figured that the exits would be blocked, so I had ten more minutes to work.


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## Jellybeans (Mar 8, 2011)

walkawaywife said:


> i left after fifteen years. no one on the outside saw it coming. i asked for help over and over. i wanted to fix it. my husband wouldn't have sex with me, preferred porn, and would tell me that i was just looking for things to ***** about when i brought it up and wanted to fix it. this went on at least five years. * a week before our fifteenth anniversary he told me to go get a boyfriend cause he wouldn't care.* i eventually did. but that didn't work out. i still don't regret it. so, men....this is why your wives are leaving you.


Yeowch. It sounds like you made the right decision by leaving, Walk.


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## Entropy3000 (May 11, 2011)

Halien said:


> After confronting a former boss who wanted me in the office all the time, I thought that he would kill my career. Over time, though, he said that he realized how inneffecient he was. Fortunately, I work for a company that feels like the key to sucess is through employees who understand balance, and have strong relationships outside of marriage. He still jokes about the minor earthquake we had. We were in a upper floor, so it shook pretty bad. My boss told my wife that while everyone was running and screaming, I was typing an email to a supplier on my laptop with the right hand and eating my ham sandwich with the left. *I just figured that the exits would be blocked, so I had ten more minutes to work.*


Yup. Makes perfect sense. In general I find that if you make a stand of some kind with most bosses they will respect you more. I have been on both sides of this. You get a go to person and you tend to feed then the tough stuff because they get it done. But some folks will not let you know that it is their anniversary or their kids birthday or whatever. Yeah sure I am supposed to know that but life comes at you pretty quick.

Then there are those vindictive or selfish folks that really only care about their own career. They want someone to be their b!tch anyway. Being one I guess is its own reward.

Sometimes it is as simple as telling oneself. Time to go home. There is always some work t be done. I used to do a lot of work after hours because things were calm and I could concentrate. A little of that goes a long way. Best to get on home though ... So I pick my times for this and let my wife know these days.
I also work a lot from home now. Much better deal.


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## Wheels65 (Jul 17, 2011)

As far as TV goes "Reba" is the worst show out there for glorifying divorce...just playing catchup


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## KJ5000 (May 29, 2011)

Women are no longer financially dependent on men.
As a result, many leave at the first sign of ANY trouble knowing that it's much easier for them to hook up with a new partner even if it's a *"rebound, doom to failure" *relationship.
She won't be lonely and won't have to go without sex unless she wants to.

Also women are more social and have more moral support and friends to help them get through it.

On the flip side, unless a guy has already been cheating OR is exceptionally good looking, there are some lonely nights ahead after a divorce/break up.


It's not always a "man's world."


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## Lon (Jun 6, 2011)

KJ5000 said:


> Women are no longer financially dependent on men.
> As a result, many leave at the first sign of ANY trouble knowing that it's much easier for them to hook up with a new partner even if it's a *"rebound, doom to failure" *relationship.
> She won't be lonely and won't have to go without sex unless she wants to.
> 
> ...


I think I agree with this comment. In my WW's case, she was financially dependent on me. I helped her start up her business (and lost a lot of equity in the process - all part of the stress I was coping with that made me such a "dud") and as soon as she started bringing in a little income she was gone like the wind. Too bad for her she jumped the gun, and is already hitting the financial brick wall. I have no idea what she plans, hopefully if she contests our agreement we end up with a judge that recognizes she could be spending her time at job that actually pays a normal wage.


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