# Boundaries



## aine

I had a bit of an epiphany at the weekend. My marriage is in its current state because I did have standards and boundaries but allowed them to be eroded.

The icing on the cake this weekend: my H promised to attend a dinner at a friends with me (i have his text to prove his confirmation) and then changed his mind when someone (a colleague) asked him to go somewhere else. He couldn't understand why I was so mad. My problem is I didn't tell him flat out he couldn't go with the colleague, I just said 'go if you want to, (meanwhile seething that he didn't even think twice about letting me down!). It is clear he has no respect for me and thinks I will always be available, whatever he does.

Then I asked him to come home early on Fri night, (I knew he was going out to celebrate winning a deal with colleagues) as he had agreed to accompany me to a seminar held by a mutual friend early the next morning. He told me he would not be late (around 10-11am). Needless to say he came back at 2am, very drunk. Also cannot understand why I am mad. Further, he received a phone call at 6am in the morning from an unrecognized number. I questioned him about it and he said why didn't i call the number myself and find out, he was so arrogant and flippant. I told him why should I , he has to tell me. He then told me it was somebody he met (male) and whom he wanted to invite to a company sports event, (i dont know what to believe). The sports event is on today all day, he left before I got up this morning. 
I had a friend call the number a few times but no answer. 

He was sleeping the yesterday morning and I went to seminar on my own, but he turned up at the seminar all smiles, joking with my friend about him being in hot soup. This man is unbelievable.

I am hurt and angry as he just thinks he can do whatever the hell he likes. So I have moved out of the bedroom, no contact, we fought by text yesterday. I cannot leave as I am not yet financially independent till I finish my studies (may be another year of hell). I am blue in the face talking to him, I know I cannot change him and there is nothing to be gained by nagging or explaining anymore. He is either thick or chooses to hear but take no action. I guess why should he, he puts up with the nagging and then everything goes back to normal for him.

I still have to live in the house with him, I still love him (I think), for a while we were getting on well but then he goes and does this, it is a cycle and I am tired of the roller coaster. 

I really want to take action that shows him my boundaries will not be crossed anymore. How do I do this when I still live in the same house as him and am financially dependent on him ( I have access to finances, accounts, info, etc so that is not an issue)?


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## xxx

Have you ever thought that he might have something going on? You described things that my BIPOLAR boyfriend would do, is there any possibility he may have bipolar disorder or something along the lines of that? Just brainstorming here


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## aine

He lacks empathy and can only see how things affect him. When I try to discuss us or how his behaviour affects me it always comes around to how I see him as a failure, his work, his stress, his colleagues, it's as if we are not on the same page at all. But in all honesty I do not think he is bipolar, i checked the symptons/signs. I think he is more along the lines of self-centeredness.


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## Openminded

He's obviously selfish and not inclined to change. So begin detaching. Stop asking him to do things with you. What you want isn't important right now. He'll either wake up or he won't. If he decides he wants to work on your marriage, then you can focus on that. If he decides he doesn't want to, then you can prepare yourself for life without him. Right now, he has all the power. Take yours back.


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## jmb123

And what is it you are doing to him??? Have you thought?

You say you are going to stay with him till you are financially independent...That does not make you any different from what he is to you....you are not in love with him...

If you really feel,you are being disrespected...have the guts to come out of the **** instead of wating for things and drama in life...

I know this because I earlier put myself as a victimbut later realized it was in my hands to take care of myself and start living a dignified life....


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## JohnA

Good morning Aine. 

Your husband reminds me of myself forty years ago. My behavior cost me, but I grew and became in many ways very empathic, even if meant mimicking behavior. Yes she did try to tell me for two years before going quiet which i took for all is good. Finally she cheated. In the end both her's and mine loss, 

How close are you to being a walk away wife? Skimmed your other threads, seems like you are barely holding on. Do you think if you had not found tam you might be affair bait? This question is not a criticism of you at all. I admire your determination to be honorable. If more men and woman were like you there would be a lost pain in the world. 

Finally, boundaries are those actions that result in good habits, good habits are those habits that promote good person, relational and societal health. Develop them and keep them but allow them to evolve.


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## Married but Happy

He lacks empathy, and you seem passive aggressive. Not a good combination for a successful relationship. You need clear communication and boundaries. Set them, or accept the dysfunction.


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## melw74

Your husband has no respect for you at all. He is holding the cards hes doing what he wants when he wants. Live your life by your own rules. Hes not considering your feelings then why consider his?.


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## Affaircare

aine said:


> I had a bit of an epiphany at the weekend. My marriage is in its current state because I did have standards and boundaries but allowed them to be eroded.


 @aine, after reading your entire post here, I believe you are looking at "boundaries" from an incorrect perspective. A "boundary" is NOT setting up rules that another person must do; a "boundary" is when you look at YOURSELF and set a rule FOR YOURSELF about what you will and will not allow in your life. 

As an example, one of my boundaries is that I will not allow people in my life who live in constant drama. I personally can not take it--the stress and tension is too much for me. So other people are completely 100% free to choose for themselves to be drama queens or not be drama queens--I can not MAKE them behave a certain way!--but if someone chooses to be a creator of drama, I let them know in a peaceful way that I can not take it and that because of the continuous drama, I will be distancing myself from them rather than getting closer. 

See? A boundary is about YOURSELF, not about making a rule for someone else. 



aine said:


> *I am hurt and angry as he just thinks he can do whatever the hell he likes. *So I have moved out of the bedroom, no contact, we fought by text yesterday. I cannot leave as I am not yet financially independent till I finish my studies (may be another year of hell). I am blue in the face talking to him, I know I cannot change him and there is nothing to be gained by nagging or explaining anymore. He is either thick or chooses to hear but take no action. I guess why should he, he puts up with the nagging and then everything goes back to normal for him.


Ah @aine--do you see the part I bolded? In real life everyone--you, me and everyone at TAM and all our spouses--everyone gets to do whatever we choose...all the time. You are an adult, and in my eyes you have the right and responsibility to make your own choices. You get the benefits of the choices you make, and you pay the costs of the choices you make. Every choice has both a benefit and a consequence, and part of growing up and maturing means that you accept the good parts of your choices, but you also are aware of and accept the consequences of your choices. In the EXACT SAME WAY, your spouse is 100% free to make his own choices! In the EXACT SAME WAY, he gets the benefits of what he chooses and he pays the natural consequences of what he chooses. 

So when you say it makes you angry that he thinks he can do what he chooses.... well he can! He can choose. He does not "HAVE TO" do what you want or what you expect or even what you hope! He can choose to do what you think is deplorable, disgusting, or wrong! Of course the cost of choosing that is that you see him with less respect and honor because he's done things that are yucky--but he is not tied down to doing what YOU think he should or what YOU think is "right." 

From what I can see, you ask him to go to an event with you. He has a choice right there to say 'yes' or 'no' and I have no idea if he feels safe saying 'no.' But for whatever reasoning, he chooses to say 'yes' which constitutes an agreement. Then he finds an excuse to dishonor his agreement! It sounds to me like he is pretty consistent with his actions--he does this over and over and over. So unless he has his own personal growth epiphany or goes to counseling, it is reasonable for you to assume this is the pattern his actions are going to take! He's demonstrated it VERY clearly and VERY consistently, and there's no real reason to believe there is a change (like counseling), so this IS what he is like! 

Now you keep 'hoping' or 'wishing' or trying to force him to do what YOU want (come to the event), and he keeps doing what he has consistently showed you is his pattern. And the pattern happens over and over again because neither of you is doing something different. YOU can not make him do something different. You can only change YOU! So if you want there to be a different outcome, YOU have to change something about YOU. Make the choice to act differently or think differently YOURSELF. 

See, he is free to make whatever choices he wants. He is free to gain the benefit of dishonoring his agreement and he is free to pay the cost of dishonoring his agreement. But so far, you've been thinking "I will MAKE him come to the event with me or I will threaten him with ___." That's not a boundary--that's control! A boundary would be like this: "He is free to choose to come or not come to the event, but I do not choose to give my closeness and my love and all of me to a person who does not value me enough of their own accord to choose to accompany me." Then he chooses--he breaks his agreement. Then YOU enforce your boundary not by yelling and forcing and trying to overpower him, but by internally making the choice to distance yourself. By physically distancing. By carrying on with "who you are" without sharing your thoughts and feelings with him. Make sense?



aine said:


> I still have to live in the house with him, I still love him (I think), for a while we were getting on well but then he goes and does this, it is a cycle and I am tired of the roller coaster.


Before I address the cycle, let me address this: "I still have to live in the house with him..." No you don't. You can leave with nothing. You could crash on a friend's couch or live with your parents. You could go to school part time and work part time. You could get a roommate and split costs of renting a place...a fellow student maybe! You could go to a homeless shelter. You could rent a long-term hotel room. You actually have a LOT of choices, but YOU have chosen to stay. The benefits of staying (continuing school and getting access to his money) outweighs the cost of staying (he doesn't attend your events and does as he pleases). 

Now regarding the cycle--you can see above why it's a cycle: you try to "make" him, he agrees to shut you up, he dishonors his agreement, you try to threaten him, you try to "make" him.... etc. It is like a cycle and both of you are doing the same steps over and over and over. To break the cycle, you would have to do something different (as in "not the same") and since you can not control him no matter what you do, the person who you can change is YOU. What are your steps in that cycle? What could you choose do to differently? What if you didn't try to "make" him do anything? What if you stopped asking him to attend your events? What if you actually let him say he didn't want to come to an event? What if you let go and allowed him to make choices you think are "wrong" but then also allowed him to experience the natural costs of what he chose? Without malice or threats, just don't get in the way of him feeling the loneliness of withdrawal from YOU. What if you made the decision to go to your events alone and be a star? What if you chose to start earning your own money? What if ... what if... what if....?



aine said:


> I really want to take action that shows him my boundaries will not be crossed anymore. How do I do this when I still live in the same house as him and am financially dependent on him ( I have access to finances, accounts, info, etc so that is not an issue)?


First I'd say do not think of boundaries as "rules he must follow." Think of boundaries like a little fence around you and your personal space. Who do you choose to let into the personal YOU and who will you allow to have the benefits of all that you can offer? What limits will you place ON YOURSELF about who is and is not "allowed in"?

Then once you have a clear vision that the boundary is a fence around you and not around someone else, I would work on letting go of the attempts to control and the resentment of not being able to control, and work from a place of focusing on YOU. How are you going to be? What kind of woman are you? Are you kind, thoughtful, loving, and gentle? Then let him be a mess, do not step in his mess, do not cover his mess for him or help him avoid the mess he made, and BE WHO YOU ARE. So what if chooses to be a dishonorable man--that is not who YOU ARE. If that's the type of man he decides to be, eventually he will have a price to pay for being dishonorable! But that doesn't involve you right now--right now you concentrate on being the person YOU ARE. Essentially...leave him alone. Let him self-destruct if that's what he decides to do. YOU be YOU.

Finally, admit something to yourself. You are there because you CHOOSE to be. You do have alternatives but right now the costs of the alternatives are higher than the benefits of the alternatives. So if it were me, I'd work on making the costs of the alternatives lower or accept that I'm choosing to bite the bullet and put up with this "in my life." See, right now the benefit of having access to his money and being able to finish your school is higher than the benefit of being able to be gone, but not having his money to support you and probably having to delay finishing school. But that means you are CHOOSING to be there--the good and the bad. If you really don't want to be there, you can find a way! It's just not an easy way: you'd be poorer and your schooling would take two years or three, rather than one. It's harder! 

So if it were me, I have to admit, I'd work on getting a job in my field now--even an internship--so that when graduation came around I'd be able to support myself by myself. Likewise, I'd meet with a school advisor, explain my situation (separating, supporting myself, etc.) and see if I couldn't make a plan for how to pay for school myself and graduate in two years rather than one. So I'd begin laying the framework of how to get out!!


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## WorkingWife

aine said:


> He lacks empathy and can only see how things affect him. When I try to discuss us or how his behaviour affects me it always comes around to how I see him as a failure, his work, his stress, his colleagues, it's as if we are not on the same page at all. But in all honesty I do not think he is bipolar, i checked the symptons/signs. I think he is more along the lines of self-centeredness.


He reminds me of my ex. He "lacks empathy" because he isn't being subjected to the selfish inconsideration to which he is subjecting you.

I remember once saying to my ex husband "How would you feel if I did that to you?" and he answered: "I wouldn't know because you would never do something like that." He actually said it in a tone of voice like that was a legitimate defense of his behavior.

Toward the end of our marriage I worked late one night then was hanging out with coworkers afterward. I called him around 7:00 and told him who I was with and that I'd be home late. I didn't think about him again all night and around 2:00 am a friend dropped me off.

Hubby was near hysterical. He looked like his dog had died. Pacing, distressed, totally freaked out. "How could I do this to him? He was so worried. This was the man who stayed out drinking 'till 4:00 am on a regular basis. I said "It's a little ironic, you being so worried that your spouse is out late when you do that to me all the time, only I told you I'd be late and you knew exactly where I was and could have called." 

He said "Yes, I know it's ironic, but I had no idea what this felt like."

And at that moment I realized it was also too late. I had spent years feeling like crap wondering when he'd come home and being let down by him and watching him let down his children. And now I no longer cared. I hadn't thought about him all night and I no longer cared what he did, who he did it with, or when he came home.

*Here's your deal:*

Your husband is a selfish, immature, jerk. The only way he will have empathy is to experience, first hand, what he puts you through. 

If you want to have a good marriage with this man-child, even if it is not in your nature, you need to give him a heaping helping of his own medicine. Even if you have to fake it - go to the movies with a girlfriend or stay alone in a motel half the night but let him think you were out drinking with friends when there was something you'd promised you'd do for him.

He may come around, he may not. If not, I'd consider divorce. Because if you plan to have children with this man, understand he will most likely make and break promises to them all the time too.

And yes, he's probably having an affair, or at the very least, having one night stands any time the opportunity presents itself. Because he does not consider your feelings and he does not like denying himself whatever he wants in this moment.


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## aine

jmb123 said:


> And what is it you are doing to him??? Have you thought?
> 
> You say you are going to stay with him till you are financially independent...That does not make you any different from what he is to you....you are not in love with him...
> 
> If you really feel,you are being disrespected...have the guts to come out of the **** instead of wating for things and drama in life...
> 
> I know this because I earlier put myself as a victimbut later realized it was in my hands to take care of myself and start living a dignified life....


If you had read any of my other threads you would know that I have stayed in this marriage through his neglect, drinking and abuse, primarily to keep the family unit together. He cheated on me once, we reconciled and I suspect he has cheated in the last five years but no proof.

The kids are gone now and I still wanted to work on the marriage, we both went to IC and an MC, things were ok for a while but these events as described above happen all the time. It is hard to keep giving when you get walked over all the time, so I have to protect myself and make an exit plan, as it looks like I need one, right? 

We have talked about me leaving, he worked hard for a while, sending flowers, coming home earlier, we have had nice holidays, etc but if there aren't fundamental changes where does that leave me, looking forward to another 30 years of being taken for granted? I can absolutely understand walk away wives, I do not have anyone waiting in the wings, I just want peace of mind.

I didn't ask this forum about leaving right now, I asked how could I live with him until I can leave. 
I have helped build what we have too, In fact I was the major breadwinner at the beginning of the marriage, we wouldn't have a pot to piss in if it had been up to him, he would have drank it or squandered it away, so I am not doing to simply be emotional and walk out! Btw, we married and live in a country that does not protect women's rights at all so I could be left penniless.


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## aine

JohnA said:


> Good morning Aine.
> 
> Your husband reminds me of myself forty years ago. My behavior cost me, but I grew and became in many ways very empathic, even if meant mimicking behavior. Yes she did try to tell me for two years before going quiet which i took for all is good. Finally she cheated. In the end both her's and mine loss,
> 
> How close are you to being a walk away wife? Skimmed your other threads, seems like you are barely holding on. Do you think if you had not found tam you might be affair bait? This question is not a criticism of you at all. I admire your determination to be honorable. If more men and woman were like you there would be a lost pain in the world.
> 
> Finally, boundaries are those actions that result in good habits, good habits are those habits that promote good person, relational and societal health. Develop them and keep them but allow them to evolve.


John, thank you for your encouragement. Your wife tried to tell you for two years, I've been trying to tell him on and off for well over 5-6 years. TAM has been a major help to be tbh as I can see the consequences of actions and also get some insight into the issues in my own marriage.
I am no angel and have thought about an affair but my faith (not my love for my husband, because he has broken his vows to me already) would not allow me to go down that road. I do not allow myself to be put in positions were that might happen. I was in such a position recently but I walked away and ensured I wouldn't be again. I know RAs only make things worse and I would probably feel terrible about it afterwards as it goes against everything I want to be, so enough to stop me going there. 
The bottom line is I wanted my marriage to work but in a way that is wholesome. That's why I am hanging on.


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## aine

Affaircare said:


> @aine, after reading your entire post here, I believe you are looking at "boundaries" from an incorrect perspective. A "boundary" is NOT setting up rules that another person must do; a "boundary" is when you look at YOURSELF and set a rule FOR YOURSELF about what you will and will not allow in your life.
> 
> As an example, one of my boundaries is that I will not allow people in my life who live in constant drama. I personally can not take it--the stress and tension is too much for me. So other people are completely 100% free to choose for themselves to be drama queens or not be drama queens--I can not MAKE them behave a certain way!--but if someone chooses to be a creator of drama, I let them know in a peaceful way that I can not take it and that because of the continuous drama, I will be distancing myself from them rather than getting closer.
> 
> See? A boundary is about YOURSELF, not about making a rule for someone else.
> 
> 
> Ah @aine--do you see the part I bolded? In real life everyone--you, me and everyone at TAM and all our spouses--everyone gets to do whatever we choose...all the time. You are an adult, and in my eyes you have the right and responsibility to make your own choices. You get the benefits of the choices you make, and you pay the costs of the choices you make. Every choice has both a benefit and a consequence, and part of growing up and maturing means that you accept the good parts of your choices, but you also are aware of and accept the consequences of your choices. In the EXACT SAME WAY, your spouse is 100% free to make his own choices! In the EXACT SAME WAY, he gets the benefits of what he chooses and he pays the natural consequences of what he chooses.
> 
> So when you say it makes you angry that he thinks he can do what he chooses.... well he can! He can choose. He does not "HAVE TO" do what you want or what you expect or even what you hope! He can choose to do what you think is deplorable, disgusting, or wrong! Of course the cost of choosing that is that you see him with less respect and honor because he's done things that are yucky--but he is not tied down to doing what YOU think he should or what YOU think is "right."
> 
> From what I can see, you ask him to go to an event with you. He has a choice right there to say 'yes' or 'no' and I have no idea if he feels safe saying 'no.' But for whatever reasoning, he chooses to say 'yes' which constitutes an agreement. Then he finds an excuse to dishonor his agreement! It sounds to me like he is pretty consistent with his actions--he does this over and over and over. So unless he has his own personal growth epiphany or goes to counseling, it is reasonable for you to assume this is the pattern his actions are going to take! He's demonstrated it VERY clearly and VERY consistently, and there's no real reason to believe there is a change (like counseling), so this IS what he is like!
> 
> Now you keep 'hoping' or 'wishing' or trying to force him to do what YOU want (come to the event), and he keeps doing what he has consistently showed you is his pattern. And the pattern happens over and over again because neither of you is doing something different. YOU can not make him do something different. You can only change YOU! So if you want there to be a different outcome, YOU have to change something about YOU. Make the choice to act differently or think differently YOURSELF.
> 
> See, he is free to make whatever choices he wants. He is free to gain the benefit of dishonoring his agreement and he is free to pay the cost of dishonoring his agreement. But so far, you've been thinking "I will MAKE him come to the event with me or I will threaten him with ___." That's not a boundary--that's control! A boundary would be like this: "He is free to choose to come or not come to the event, but I do not choose to give my closeness and my love and all of me to a person who does not value me enough of their own accord to choose to accompany me." Then he chooses--he breaks his agreement. Then YOU enforce your boundary not by yelling and forcing and trying to overpower him, but by internally making the choice to distance yourself. By physically distancing. By carrying on with "who you are" without sharing your thoughts and feelings with him. Make sense?
> 
> 
> Before I address the cycle, let me address this: "I still have to live in the house with him..." No you don't. You can leave with nothing. You could crash on a friend's couch or live with your parents. You could go to school part time and work part time. You could get a roommate and split costs of renting a place...a fellow student maybe! You could go to a homeless shelter. You could rent a long-term hotel room. You actually have a LOT of choices, but YOU have chosen to stay. The benefits of staying (continuing school and getting access to his money) outweighs the cost of staying (he doesn't attend your events and does as he pleases).
> 
> Now regarding the cycle--you can see above why it's a cycle: you try to "make" him, he agrees to shut you up, he dishonors his agreement, you try to threaten him, you try to "make" him.... etc. It is like a cycle and both of you are doing the same steps over and over and over. To break the cycle, you would have to do something different (as in "not the same") and since you can not control him no matter what you do, the person who you can change is YOU. What are your steps in that cycle? What could you choose do to differently? What if you didn't try to "make" him do anything? What if you stopped asking him to attend your events? What if you actually let him say he didn't want to come to an event? What if you let go and allowed him to make choices you think are "wrong" but then also allowed him to experience the natural costs of what he chose? Without malice or threats, just don't get in the way of him feeling the loneliness of withdrawal from YOU. What if you made the decision to go to your events alone and be a star? What if you chose to start earning your own money? What if ... what if... what if....?
> 
> 
> 
> First I'd say do not think of boundaries as "rules he must follow." Think of boundaries like a little fence around you and your personal space. Who do you choose to let into the personal YOU and who will you allow to have the benefits of all that you can offer? What limits will you place ON YOURSELF about who is and is not "allowed in"?
> 
> Then once you have a clear vision that the boundary is a fence around you and not around someone else, I would work on letting go of the attempts to control and the resentment of not being able to control, and work from a place of focusing on YOU. How are you going to be? What kind of woman are you? Are you kind, thoughtful, loving, and gentle? Then let him be a mess, do not step in his mess, do not cover his mess for him or help him avoid the mess he made, and BE WHO YOU ARE. So what if chooses to be a dishonorable man--that is not who YOU ARE. If that's the type of man he decides to be, eventually he will have a price to pay for being dishonorable! But that doesn't involve you right now--right now you concentrate on being the person YOU ARE. Essentially...leave him alone. Let him self-destruct if that's what he decides to do. YOU be YOU.
> 
> Finally, admit something to yourself. You are there because you CHOOSE to be. You do have alternatives but right now the costs of the alternatives are higher than the benefits of the alternatives. So if it were me, I'd work on making the costs of the alternatives lower or accept that I'm choosing to bite the bullet and put up with this "in my life." See, right now the benefit of having access to his money and being able to finish your school is higher than the benefit of being able to be gone, but not having his money to support you and probably having to delay finishing school. But that means you are CHOOSING to be there--the good and the bad. If you really don't want to be there, you can find a way! It's just not an easy way: you'd be poorer and your schooling would take two years or three, rather than one. It's harder!
> 
> So if it were me, I have to admit, I'd work on getting a job in my field now--even an internship--so that when graduation came around I'd be able to support myself by myself. Likewise, I'd meet with a school advisor, explain my situation (separating, supporting myself, etc.) and see if I couldn't make a plan for how to pay for school myself and graduate in two years rather than one. So I'd begin laying the framework of how to get out!!


Thank you so much for this. I think in one post you have summed it up better than hours of counseling!
Yes I choose to live in the house I helped build, continue with my studies ( I do have a part time job with offer of full time once I finish my studies). The benefits outweigh the "costs." for the moment, you are right.

I am trying to emotionally detach, and do things on my own, met a friend at weekend, going out this week with some girl friends, going to work, studying, etc. today he ignores me, I ignore him. There are many 'couple' events coming up this month, wedding, going away party, etc. but decided I am going alone, I am not reminding him or asking him to attend, I keep the diary. 

He tries to share personal stuff with me yesterday I just say' that's nice' but honestly I don't want him sharing anything with me. I have been the one he runs to with all his work issues and family drama. How do I make it clear I don't want to hear it from here on out. I am a kind person generally and a good friend but I don't want to invest any more of my time in him at all. I am too sore and hurt to be honest. I know I have to let go of a lot of resentment, but it is easier said than done. I want to be the best person I can be.

Your post will be printed off and read over and over again, thank you! :smile2:


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## WorkingWife

aine said:


> ... It is hard to keep giving when you get walked over all the time, so I have to protect myself and make an exit plan, as it looks like I need one, right? ...
> I didn't ask this forum about leaving right now, I asked how could I live with him until I can leave.
> I have helped build what we have too, In fact I was the major breadwinner at the beginning of the marriage, we wouldn't have a pot to piss in if it had been up to him, he would have drank it or squandered it away, so I am not doing to simply be emotional and walk out! Btw, we married and live in a country that does not protect women's rights at all so I could be left penniless.


If you want to make things work, I would check out Marriage Builders ® - Successful Marriage Advice and see if you can get him to do their program with you. At the very least it will help you establish boundaries and learn how to complain in a way that has the best chance of bringing about change.

Meanwhile I would plan for leaving but do not tell him. Squirrel away any money you can. Look into where you might live and how you can afford it. Just quietly plot. 

It sounds like you have given, and are giving, the marriage your all. IMO, There is absolutely nothing wrong with caring for and protecting yourself also.

If he is willing to follow marriage builders principles in your marriage that could change everything for you. If your marriage turns around, you never have to act on your plans to leave. If he won't/doesn't work on the marriage and make permanent changes, take your time preparing and leave on your terms in your own time. 

As long as you can get along with him it may be less stressful to live with him once your start to seriously assume you are leaving and you stop hoping he will do what he says. 

If he doesn't change and you leave, your next 30 years WILL be more peaceful and if you are the main bread winner, you will have control and hopefully will be able to save more without supporting him, assuming your health holds up.


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## aine

Working Wife the problem is that I have threatened to leave so many times when my last child moved to college. My last child has just moved to college and i am still here but I do not want to leave yet as it would mean leaving the country and I want to finish my studies first. He has even brought this matter up and said I keep threatening him but the time frame has changed! He is absolutely right. I made the mistake of showing my hand but did so out of frustration! I just have to keep my head down, do my thing and then make my move.

I used to be the breadwinner before and when kids were little but not anymore, I stupidly gave up my career to support his with all his moving. 

Have thought about those games, did a little two years ago but he thought I was playing hard to get! I am too old for game playing, I want to be in a relationship with a man who is confident in himself but knows how to consider other people and even put them first occasionally. 
My heart is breaking as I write this but I knew the writing was on the wall five years ago when he emotionally abandoned me when I needed him most. So I just have to accept the reality and go with it, I know healing and peace will come with time.

He just sent me a message this morning after ignoring me at breakfast time. It really upset me because it shows just how thick skinned he is. The message reads "I need to write to XXX about my XXXX, know you are upset but would appreciate your help and your XXX (dish I cooked yesterday) was excellent" His gaul is unbelievable. I came up with a variety of choice responses, all in draft and then decided not to reply at all. This is what I deal with. I just want to detach but it is so so difficult!


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## Satya

aine said:


> Working Wife the problem is that I have threatened to leave so many times when my last child moved to college. My last child has just moved to college and i am still here but I do not want to leave yet as it would mean leaving the country and I want to finish my studies first. He has even brought this matter up and said I keep threatening him but the time frame has changed! He is absolutely right. I made the mistake of showing my hand but did so out of frustration! I just have to keep my head down, do my thing and then make my move.
> 
> I used to be the breadwinner before and when kids were little but not anymore, I stupidly gave up my career to support his with all his moving.
> 
> Have thought about those games, did a little two years ago but he thought I was playing hard to get! I am too old for game playing, I want to be in a relationship with a man who is confident in himself but knows how to consider other people and even put them first occasionally.
> My heart is breaking as I write this but I knew the writing was on the wall five years ago when he emotionally abandoned me when I needed him most. So I just have to accept the reality and go with it, I know healing and peace will come with time.
> 
> He just sent me a message this morning after ignoring me at breakfast time. It really upset me because it shows just how thick skinned he is. The message reads "I need to write to XXX about my XXXX, know you are upset but would appreciate your help and your XXX (dish I cooked yesterday) was excellent" His gaul is unbelievable. I came up with a variety of choice responses, all in draft and then decided not to reply at all. This is what I deal with. I just want to detach but it is so so difficult!


Ignore the text. 
You can't learn to detach until you actually start doing it.


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## Affaircare

aine said:


> He tries to share personal stuff with me yesterday I just say' that's nice' but honestly I don't want him sharing anything with me. I have been the one he runs to with all his work issues and family drama. *How do I make it clear I don't want to hear it from here on out. I am a kind person generally and a good friend but I don't want to invest any more of my time in him at all.* I am too sore and hurt to be honest. I know I have to let go of a lot of resentment, but it is easier said than done. I want to be the best person I can be.
> 
> Your post will be printed off and read over and over again, thank you! :smile2:


 @aine, this is actually relatively easy. When he comes to you with his family drama or a work issue, instead of saying "That's nice" --which essentially you're saying to just not rock the boat-- say "I do not choose to do that." 

Just memorize that phrase. I do not choose to do that. 

I know part of you thinks you need to explain or give him some reason for your "no" but in real life "No" is a complete sentence and you don't have to justify your no. When someone asks something of you, the legitimate responses are "yes" "no" or "maybe" and you are choosing "no."

If he presses you for a reason, just tell him he is asking something of you and you get to choose and your choice is NO! That's all the reason someone ever needs!



> He just sent me a message this morning after ignoring me at breakfast time. It really upset me because it shows just how thick skinned he is. The message reads "I need to write to XXX about my XXXX, know you are upset but would appreciate your help and your XXX (dish I cooked yesterday) was excellent" His gaul is unbelievable. I came up with a variety of choice responses, all in draft and then decided not to reply at all. This is what I deal with. I just want to detach but it is so so difficult!


Okay let's apply the principle above. 

HIM: "I need to write to XXX about my XXXX, know you are upset but would appreciate your help and your XXX (dish I cooked yesterday) was excellent"

YOU: "I do not choose to help you write to XXX about your XXX. That is your responsibility." 

The end. 

If he presses you for a reason why you won't help him (aka, "do it for him") you can say "You are asking me for something and I get to choose yes or no. I choose no." Period! 

See this is how you remain true to yourself but also detach. He can be a tornado whirling with drama and making a mess right next to you, but you do not need to be $ucked into it. Just stay out of his problem and peacefully remain yourself.


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## aine

Thanks Affaircare. I had a message to run in town last night and went for a coffee and came back late, went straight to bed. He was out on the patio in the dark, I actually only realised when I was going upstairs. He came later banging on my door and sounded tipsy asking me to open up and I said NO. He threatened to knock the door down, get the keys etc. i told him I would call the police. He left, I went to sleep.

This morning, he approached me as I came out of downstairs bathroom and said was I going to continue this. I told him he disrespected me over the last two weekends and I wasn't allowing him within my boundaries and to leave me alone. He got annoyed and said how did I disrespect you (we had been over this in numerous texts, i feel like I am banging my head of a wall). I totally lost it (totally my fault), i got so mad and I said everything to him (he got the desired effect because he did not get angry but stayed quiet). I was particularly mad about a text where he denied cheating when partying using the following " you have accused me of all that but if I had done that we would have been in financial ruin, I wouldn't bother about saving only enjoying." 

The thing is I am the one who pays the monthly bills, etc manages the bank accounts etc. I made a summary of 22 months of our accounts during the time I suspected him and found many withdrawals/transfers of small amounts to his private account amounting to a total of US$22,000 this does not include the US$6800 i gave him to pay off his credit card, the statements for which I never see. i have asked a few times for statements, got some for one year, lots of clubbing, but he told me a tall story about the remainder not being available. He also has a separate company credit card.

We are with a big multinational bank, everything is available, I know he is lying. We live in an Asian country so that kind of money can go far. So he refused to deal with this at all this morning, the big elephant in the room but took issue with the fact I am not wearing my wedding ring and instead shifted the focus to that. 

The bottom line is I am so angry and fed up with years of gas lighting and his inability to actually be honest. He told me at the weekend in a text that "all I am guilty of is transparency or how I am perceived because that is a problem I am facing at work also". As i read over this, if it was coming from a third party I would tell them to dump his sorry ass and run for the hills. 27 years invested in this relationship, a beautiful family. I am finding it so hard to be calm and rational right now.


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