# Wife has initiated twice in the past 21 years



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

This frustrates me to no end. We have a relatively good sex life, average twice a week. But my wife has initiated just twice in the past 21 years. Once in the spring of 2000 when she was pregnant with our second child, and once in the spring of 2015. That's it. She claims she has a lower sex drive. I'd term it kinda on life support. I have asked her to start now and then, said it would be great. She says she will, she never does. Any suggestions? Do I just go with the flow? It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie. As said, we do have sex twice a week - which is great given our ages, both in early 60s - but it gets old always having to be the starter.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> This frustrates me to no end. We have a relatively good sex life, average twice a week. But my wife has initiated just twice in the past 21 years. Once in the spring of 2000 when she was pregnant with our second child, and once in the spring of 2015. That's it. She claims she has a lower sex drive. I'd term it kinda on life support. I have asked her to start now and then, said it would be great. She says she will, she never does. Any suggestions? Do I just go with the flow? It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie. As said, we do have sex twice a week - which is great given our ages, both in early 60s - but it gets old always having to be the starter.


Does she reject you when you initate?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Does she reject you when you initate?


About 60 percent of the time, yes. We do have an agreement for making love each Sunday morning. She always says yes. It's the other times that she's batting .600


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> About 60 percent of the time, yes. We do have an agreement for making love each Sunday morning. She always says yes. It's the other times that she's batting .600


.600 as in she says no 6 of 10 times


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> About 60 percent of the time, yes. We do have an agreement for making love each Sunday morning. She always says yes. It's the other times that she's batting .600


I suppose you feel more like she is giving in rather than doing it because she wants it? Have you asked her about it?
I will also say that 2 times a week is not a horrible number. Many men here at TAM would consider that hitting the lotto.


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## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie.


Yeah I get you. I mean putting on the moves so you can have sex. For me it’s like taking out the trash or raking leaves. /s

I used to think I wanted my wife to initiate. It’s great if she does but I thought about it a lot and it doesn’t actually matter if she accepts my initiation often enough.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I suppose you feel more like she is giving in rather than doing it because she wants it? Have you asked her about it?
> I will also say that 2 times a week is not a horrible number. Many men here at TAM would consider that hitting the lotto.


Yeah, it has that feel. I’ve asked. Get confusing answers. Twice a week is fine. Just wish she was “there” ya know?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> Yeah I get you. I mean putting on the moves so you can have sex. For me it’s like taking out the trash or raking leaves. /s
> 
> I used to think I wanted my wife to initiate. It’s great if she does but I thought about it a lot and it doesn’t actually matter if she accepts my initiation often enough.


Few months ago, she said it didn’t matter to her if she has an orgasm. So, I quit caring about that. Big weight off my shoulders


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Yeah, it has that feel. I’ve asked. Get confusing answers. Twice a week is fine. Just wish she was “there” ya know?


By “there” what do you mean? Is she an active participant or looking at her nails deciding if she needs a manicure?


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

ah ah... I thought you were quoting me... my wife initiated twice in 30 years too!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> By “there” what do you mean? Is she an active participant or looking at her nails deciding if she needs a manicure?


Funny you mention that. One time as I was orally pleasuring her, I looked up and she was looking at her nails. After, told her don’t ever do that again when I go down. She has not. She’s sorta active but I have to coach


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> ah ah... I thought you were quoting me... my wife initiated twice in 30 years too!


It is insane


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Just say no. 
Take her power away. 
Next Sunday morning tell her you are not interested.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Funny you mention that. One time as I was orally pleasuring her, I looked up and she was looking at her nails. After, told her don’t ever do that again when I go down. She has not. She’s sorta active but I have to coach


So what would happen if you stopped initiating?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> Just say no.
> Take her power away.
> Next Sunday morning tell her you are not interested.


Not a bad idea. Can borrow her “just not feeling it” reply


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> So what would happen if you stopped initiating?


We would never have sex


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We would never have sex


I would stop initiating for a while. See her response. Let her wonder. She takes it for granted that you will always want her.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I would stop initiating for a while. See her response. Let her wonder. She takes it for granted that you will always want her.


Smart. Thanks


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Stopping initiating, didn't work for me. I had to actually reject sex to get her off dead center. It did increase initiation, and participation. She has to Believe, that she has something to lose. If you want her to believe that you won't always want her, you have to send a clear message that you won't accept lukewarm unenthusiastic sex. 

Now if I could just get her to be present for other parts of life.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We would never have sex


I did that for months... nothing ever changed. I think my wife was in heaven!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> Stopping initiating, didn't work for me. I had to actually reject sex to get her off dead center. It did increase initiation, and participation. She has to Believe, that she has something to lose. If you want her to believe that you won't always want her, you have to send a clear message that you won't accept lukewarm unenthusiastic sex.
> 
> Now if I could just get her to be present for other parts of life.


Thanks for advice


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I did that for months... nothing ever changed. I think my wife was in heaven!


Mine would be so happy


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

i used to hope for that as well but in the 30 years we are together it has not happened often , i used to talk about it to her , but it does not matter to me any more ,I do feel sex is a seduction that needs to be an all day thing even if you don't want it later that day , our day is full of sexual joking and word games , but What I would like my wife to do more often would be to dress more sexy at times to seduce me , and this covid thing has put that on a shelf as we work together and have not been out in a year


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> i used to hope for that as well but in the 30 years we are together it has not happened often , i used to talk about it to her , but it does not matter to me any more ,I do feel sex is a seduction that needs to be an all day thing even if you don't want it later that day , our day is full of sexual joking and word games , but What I would like my wife to do more often would be to dress more sexy at times to seduce me , and this covid thing has put that on a shelf as we work together and have not been out in a year


I hear ya. Have to beg her to wear perfume. She quit French kissing for years. Now it’s still lame but do get some tongue. I can’t figure her out


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I hear ya. Have to beg her to wear perfume. She quit French kissing for years. Now it’s still lame but do get some tongue. I can’t figure her out


Well, it's not all that hard to figure out. She's just plain not interested in having sex with you.

You need to figure out how you are going to proceed. But it's doubtful anything you can do is going to change that. You can't manufacture passion and desire in someone.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Go your own way.


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## Diceplayer (Oct 12, 2019)

Torninhalf said:


> I would stop initiating for a while. See her response. Let her wonder. She takes it for granted that you will always want her.


You initiate, you get sex 40% of the time. You quit initiating, you get no sex. How is that better? 


In Absentia said:


> I did that for months... nothing ever changed. I think my wife was in heaven!


This is what her response will be so keep initiating. Don't pout or mope when she refuses, but keep it up, otherwise you get nothing and she'll be happy.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Well, it's not all that hard to figure out. She's just plain not interested in having sex with you.
> 
> You need to figure out how you are going to proceed. But it's doubtful anything you can do is going to change that. You can't manufacture passion and desire in someone.


She swears she still enjoys and she has lots of fun once I get her revved up.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Diceplayer said:


> You initiate, you get sex 40% of the time. You quit initiating, you get no sex. How is that better?
> 
> This is what her response will be so keep initiating. Don't pout or mope when she refuses, but keep it up, otherwise you get nothing and she'll be happy.


As Wayne Gretzky said, you miss 100 % of the shots you do not take.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> She swears she still enjoys and she has lots of fun once I get her revved up.


And someone can enjoy and have a lot of fun with a sex toy, as well.

That's not the same as desiring you physically. Or emotionally.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> Go your own way.


Perhaps


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> And someone can enjoy and have a lot of fun with a sex toy, as well.
> 
> That's not the same as desiring you physically. Or emotionally.


Well, I’ll take her word for it. Who knows? Women are a mystery.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Perhaps


Read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. It may help.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Marc878 said:


> Read “No More Mr Nice Guy” by glover. It’s a free pdf download and short. It may help.


Thanks. Will do


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

I tell you it is about power and nothing else. The problem is that women can exercise power as much by saying yes as by saying no. They have a lower risk of rejection. But for a man to rob her of that power makes him desirable. And all he has to to to strip her of all of that sexual power is devalue her contribution. You don't have to "get it elsewhere", all you need to do is prove that you don't need it. 

Livvie, may be right and your wife might not be interested in you. Your wife might be right she might have low desire. None of that affects the power balance. She is controlling the supply of sexual opportunity. Now if you devalue that commodity. ie. lukewarm uninterested sex isn't fun enough to show up for, Then she has no power. Now she doesn't want to lose that power, and you really aren't interested in wielding it either. So immediately she will grasp for a way to regain power. The easiest path back to power is to initiate sex. interesting , hot , sex. 

Sure it's mean. Sure she will wonder if you are cheating or leaving. She will have her world rocked. Which is what you want. She will remember why she wants to keep you attached. Then she can control sex in a positive way.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Yes, you just go with the flow. A LOT of women don't initiate and expect the man to do it. It's the way women were mostly brought up. She's been like that forever, so you can't expect her to just change after 21 years. If you're having sex twice a week, your wife doesn't have a low sex drive or at least is being very accommodating. But be careful what you want because what if she agrees to initiate when she wants sex and then she only initiates once in a blue moon when she truly wants sex? Because at that point, it will be her call and you'll be left hanging.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes, you just go with the flow. A LOT of women don't initiate and expect the man to do it. It's the way women were mostly brought up. She's been like that forever, so you can't expect her to just change after 21 years. If you're having sex twice a week, your wife doesn't have a low sex drive or at least is being very accommodating. But be careful what you want because what if she agrees to initiate when she wants sex and then she only initiates once in a blue moon when she truly wants sex? Because at that point, it will be her call and you'll be left hanging.


This appears to be good advice and logical in all respects. 

Maybe they can both initiate. Is there a reason for Longtime Hubby to stop initiating just because she does too?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> This appears to be good advice and logical in all respects.
> 
> Maybe they can both initiate. Is there a reason for Longtime Hubby to stop initiating just because she does too?


No, but since he would prefer she initiates, he could easily get in that position. I mean, he tells her to initiate, and next time he does, she says, "I thought you were going to let me initiate when I wanted sex." Then there'd be a stalemate.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> No, but since he would prefer she initiates, he could easily get in that position. I mean, he tells her to initiate, and next time he does, she says, "I thought you were going to let me initiate when I wanted sex." Then there'd be a stalemate.


I see your point. He could fall into that trap.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Is she excited to spend time with you alone? If you booked a romantic overnight would she look forward to it or get excited about it?

Could she be more subtle than you and maybe is initiating in her own way? My wife will look at me and say “I’m going to take a shower”.. her way of inviting me to shower with her (kids are around so can’t be direct anyway).

Is she affectionate? If you go up and give her a strong/close hug does she sigh, say thank you, or want to linger in it or have a kiss too?

I mean, she’s your wife so surely she at least responds very positively to affection you initiate right? Do you ever give her a hug or kiss just because (not just to lead to sex)?


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> I see your point. He could fall into that trap.


Yes. I mean, if he pressures her to initiate when she wants sex, it could mess up having sex as often as he is now. I mean, come on, it's not as if she doesn't KNOW she could initiate sex if she wanted to. She's not a moron.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes. I mean, if he pressures her to initiate when she wants sex, it could mess up having sex as often as he is now. I mean, come on, it's not as if she doesn't KNOW she could initiate sex if she wanted to. She's not a moron.


Ha ha ha!
I agree, but for the sake of all angles how do we know she's not a moron? Or him. I wasn't thinking that but now you have me wondering, how can we really be sure? 🤣🤣🤣

A dumb joke, I'm sure.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> Is she excited to spend time with you alone? If you booked a romantic overnight would she look forward to it or get excited about it?
> 
> Could she be more subtle than you and maybe is initiating in her own way? My wife will look at me and say “I’m going to take a shower”.. her way of inviting me to shower with her (kids are around so can’t be direct anyway).
> 
> ...


Yeah I do that “no expectations” hug etc. yes she does look forward to our getaways - had two in last five weeks - lotsa fun. I just wish she’d start now and then. With ED, spontaneous sex is not possible. So she has the controls. I still try which is good cuz of we left sex up to her... twice in 21 years


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Yes. I mean, if he pressures her to initiate when she wants sex, it could mess up having sex as often as he is now. I mean, come on, it's not as if she doesn't KNOW she could initiate sex if she wanted to. She's not a moron.


Correct. She could initiate if she wanted to. Has decided not to


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Ha ha ha!
> I agree, but for the sake of all angles how do we know she's not a moron? Or him. I wasn't thinking that but now you have me wondering, how can we really be sure? 🤣🤣🤣
> 
> A dumb joke, I'm sure.


I laughed


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

I think a lot of us men like to think we are the ones that are in charge but ever think of who was expecting sex when you are on a night out and you find your wife with a sexy g string on and she slips it into your hand or pocket I think women like us to think we are the ones in charge


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

I think you’re making mountains out of mole hills here... she’s affectionate, loves you twice a week and that ain’t enough... dang buddy.

Where’d you get the idea that a lady initiates... porn?

Personally, I like my role as initiator, executor, and terminator of all “marital” activities.... makes me feel like I’m in charge. Lol


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I think you’re making mountains out of mole hills here... she’s affectionate, loves you twice a week and that ain’t enough... dang buddy.
> 
> Where’d you get the idea that a lady initiates... porn?
> 
> Personally, I like my role as initiator, executor, and terminator of all “marital” activities.... makes me feel like I’m in charge. Lol


Got the idea from dating her and the first 6 years of marriage. She often initiated. True.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> I think a lot of us men like to think we are the ones that are in charge but ever think of who was expecting sex when you are on a night out and you find your wife with a sexy g string on and she slips it into your hand or pocket I think women like us to think we are the ones in charge


The next time that happens is the first time. Lol


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We would never have sex





Longtime Hubby said:


> Not a bad idea. Can borrow her “just not feeling it” reply


My advice is that two wrongs don't make a right. If you stop initiating, do it only for the right reason. To me the right reason would be to try a 180 so you can see what happens. If you stop initiating to "teach her a lesson" or to try to "make her something she doesn't want" you are not going to succeed.

I am a big fan of Dr. David Schnarch. One of the things he often says is that almost all long term married couples do not have a communication problem. After being together for over 20 years, your wife knows you and she knows what you are thinking. She can probably complete many of your sentences. She can read your facial expressions, your tone of voice, and your body language. If you are going to communicate something as important as your need for sex with her, she will likely know exactly what you are thinking.

If you stop initiating for a childish, "I am going to show you" reason, expect her to instantly know what you are feeling. Don't try telling her you are not in the mood if you really want to have sex with her.

Base on your 20 years track record, I bet I can tell you exactly what will happen on Sunday morning if you don't initiate and in your heart you really are wondering what will happen. What will happen is you will not have sex. If that is the outcome, then when it happens embrace it, don't get mad or sulk. 

There were two things I had to learn in the road back from my sex starved marriage. The first is that my wife is LD and I am HD and I can never change that, it is who she is. What that means is that you will always want sex more than she does. If she really loves you and she understands your needs, there will be lots of time where because of her love for you, she will give you the gift of her body. That means unless she gets carried away sex with you will not be about her achieving an orgasm, it will be about her making the man she loves happy and sharing his emotional closeness and orgasm. 

I would wager that when you do bring her to orgasm that you feel good about pleasing her. She feels the same way when she pleasures you. She is LD, that means her orgasms, her need for having sex are less than yours. She is stretching herself having sex with you twice a week. That is how often my wife will have sex with me. It is much more than she would really prefer. She knows however, that I am HD compared to her and that twice a week is about the bare minimum at which I can emotionally survive. We have reach a compromise that we can both barely live with. I suspect that is the same for the two of you.

The second thing, I want to share with you is, that your feelings of being sexually desired by your wife is neither an not either an indication of your wife's love for you, nor of your self worth as a man. "Love" has many different meanings for different people. It the two of you have been together for over 20 years, if she is very low desire and yet has sex with you twice a week, then she loves you. If may not be your ideal definition of love, but she deeply loves you. Just because she doesn't initiate doesn't mean she doesn't value being your wife, being your partner, sleeping with you or a host of other things. She loves you, so you need to learn to accept that she loves you very, very much. Just as she may have a different Chapman Love Language, you need to start listening to the various ways she loves you, cherishes you and values your relationship with her. In that context, sexual initiation, as long as the two of you are having a reasonable frequency of sex and emotional connection is not that important.

One of the things that helped me was to forgive my wife of any things I "perceived" as wrong with her. I had to recognize that she is a human being struggling the best she can to live her life. That my wife really does love me but there is noting I can do to make her become HD. She will always be LD and the best I can hope for is for us to reach a compromise we can both live with. I had to embrace the enjoyment of that compromise. I had to make sure that when she pushed herself to her limits on a regular basis, I received each love making as a wonderful experience. My wife of nearly 50 years can tell if after we have made love if I am extacting and emotionally connected to her or if I harbor any resentment that this is all the sex we had this week.

Again, the woman you have known for decades, knows what you feel and think. Your facial expressions, tone of voice, body language betray your true feelings. Share your heart and feelings with her. When you make love, let her know how happy it makes you and how close you feel to her. Let her feel like a good wife and not a sexual failure.

Start to learn to embrace and enjoy the love she is showing you. Learn how to feel cherished that this LD woman "wants" you to have sex twice a week and you are so important to her that she will stretch herself for the sake of you and her marriage.

Look at your glass as half full. As another has said, there are a lot of men who would feel they won the Lotto if their wife had sex with them twice a week.

Good luck. Be honest with her and do things for the right reasons. Don't play games with your wife.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Young at Heart said:


> My advice is that two wrongs don't make a right. If you stop initiating, do it only for the right reason. To me the right reason would be to try a 180 so you can see what happens. If you stop initiating to "teach her a lesson" or to try to "make her something she doesn't want" you are not going to succeed.
> 
> I am a big fan of Dr. David Schnarch. One of the things he often says is that almost all long term married couples do not have a communication problem. After being together for over 20 years, your wife knows you and she knows what you are thinking. She can probably complete many of your sentences. She can read your facial expressions, your tone of voice, and your body language. If you are going to communicate something as important as your need for sex with her, she will likely know exactly what you are thinking.
> 
> ...


Much thanks for your thoughtful answer.


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

I agree with Livvie...

No woman that truly desires her man is going to almost never initiate, IMO/E...Sure...many women like a guy to lead, but I mean never an ass grab or rub tits on you when you walk by? pfft.....I'd think I would have a hard time initiating constantly without ever having any reciprocity...That would suck...Count me out of that deal...Even if she complies all or most of the time(and in this case, she isn't by a mile), how would a guy know it's not all an act on her part(when she does submit)? Truth is you don't know, heck she is even kissing you like you kiss your female cousin,,,

I'll just throw this out here....

Most middle aged guys(and guys who have been in LTR's) do practically nothing to make themselves more appealing physically...Not any of the guys I know, anyway....They have terrible physiques, smell, are poorly groomed, wear shytty clothes and just exude zero sex appeal...Not that there aren't a lot of slob women out there as well, but I dunno, maybe it's just because I am a guy, but it does take a lot for a woman to have zero sex appeal...There are older women, even one's that are out of shape and pretty heavy, that still seem pretty sexy...

You get a lot of these guys that haven't seen their dyck or their feet since Clinton was elected, and walk around the house farting and burping, etc, Then expect a woman to actually chase that? 

I know looks aren't supposed to be that important, but I am telling you that if you want to be desired the way you think you want to then it does matter and they will notice...Get in shape, wear nicer clothes(doesn't have to be dress/formal, btw)...Try to smell good and be well groomed, don't be a pig, you think it's cute or funny, she is rolling her eyes at it....

It takes some effort, especially as we age, but not only is it better for your own well being, confidence, etc. the benefits can be exactly what you want...For me, its just the way I live my life, I don't do it for attention from women, but it's a nice side benefit...I know it's not for everyone, and you don't have to take it to the level that I or anyone else, does, everyone has their thing, just perhaps be a better and improved version of yourself..

Sorry in advance if anyone offended,.02


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

yes we fall into a easy life style , in the start of a relationship we give our best we get spruced up and show our best side , it is othen the thing that is a gives away a cheater when the other half see their wife or husband putting more effort into their appearance , in other words we stop doing it for the person we have trapped and don't need to stay doing it 

I joined here to give others help from my experience but now I find i am learning from you guys , 
one thing that stands out is women or the woman in our life saw something in us that made us stand out unless you are one of these guys that ended up with a gold digger , and gold diggers come in many forms I was shocked when I was chatting with a woman that told me she is with her fellow because it is hard to get an apartment in our town if your a single , so if that is the only reson this couple are together you have to ask what is the relationship real like 

We see women are friends with nice guys the type that drop everything to do things for others , but the same woman would never do anything wild with mr nice guy but the same woman would drop her drawers for the bad guy and we just stand back and can't see what it is that this bad guy has to offer that makes women q up waiting their turn to get down and dirty with what we see as a sleazebag,
men do the same thing we place women in 2 groups one the wife mother blessed virgin type woman but the same man before he is ready to settle down want to date the party girls the type they like to use for sex with no strings attached , but we never stand back and ask our self or the other person you see doing it why they or what draws them to this bad guy or bad girl , I asked a woman friend once that is the type woman that is your normal shy motherly type woman that people would see as very normal type woman , but in my hobby i get to see women that are your normal house wife stay at home mother of 3 kids turn about do a U turn and do the dirty with the bad boy type so one day when I watched a woman go from a mother of 3 to wild girl she said because " he likes women and consumes them like fine wine even though I know he was with another woman only an hour before when i was with him you know he is with you giving you his full making me feel at that time I am THAT FIND BOTTLE OF WINE , 


hamadryad said:


> I agree with Livvie...
> 
> No woman that truly desires her man is going to almost never initiate, IMO/E...Sure...many women like a guy to lead, but I mean never an ass grab or rub tits on you when you walk by? pfft.....I'd think I would have a hard time initiating constantly without ever having any reciprocity...That would suck...Count me out of that deal...Even if she complies all or most of the time(and in this case, she isn't by a mile), how would a guy know it's not all an act on her part(when she does submit)? Truth is you don't know, heck she is even kissing you like you kiss your female cousin,,,
> 
> ...


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> I agree with Livvie...
> 
> No woman that truly desires her man is going to almost never initiate, IMO/E...Sure...many women like a guy to lead, but I mean never an ass grab or rub tits on you when you walk by? pfft.....I'd think I would have a hard time initiating constantly without ever having any reciprocity...That would suck...Count me out of that deal...Even if she complies all or most of the time(and in this case, she isn't by a mile), how would a guy know it's not all an act on her part(when she does submit)? Truth is you don't know, heck she is even kissing you like you kiss your female cousin,,,
> 
> ...


No offense taken. You make interesting points. Sadly, she never flirts with me. Yes, I have lost 30 pounds and often get compliments from others. Do exercise, shave daily, hair is still dark - not dyed - and stylish. Wear a dash of cologne each day. Trying to present a better me. Maybe she really does have a low sex drive. I am
disappointed by her lack of naughtiness. No doubt.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Maybe she really does have a low sex drive. I am
> disappointed by her lack of naughtiness. No doubt.


I think she does... twice a week is pretty good. I would try and stop looking for the woman who doesn't exist... she is not going to change now. Sorry!


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

In Absentia said:


> I think she does... twice a week is pretty good. I would try and stop looking for the woman who doesn't exist... she is not going to change now. Sorry!


I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking, why is it thought twice a week is pretty good?

Maybe three times a week or four, is a least target.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

You can try something playful - tell her you are in the mood to be seduced and you want to see her in that red dress struttin' her stuff. Lots of winks. If she doesn't have a red dress, buy her one.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking, why is it thought twice a week is pretty good?
> 
> Maybe three times a week or four, is a least target.


They are in their sixties and the wife has clearly no libido and has initiated twice in 21 years. You have to compromise somewhere and be realistic. What's the alternative? Suggestions welcome.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Blondilocks said:


> You can try something playful - tell her you are in the mood to be seduced and you want to see her in that red dress struttin' her stuff. Lots of winks. If she doesn't have a red dress, buy her one.


Good luck with that...


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking, why is it thought twice a week is pretty good?
> 
> Maybe three times a week or four, is a least target.


To begin with they are in their 60’s. Twice a week is steady and more than average for that age range.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I think she does... twice a week is pretty good. I would try and stop looking for the woman who doesn't exist... she is not going to change now. Sorry!


Tiger don’t change its stripes^ ... just miss how she used to be.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> They are in their sixties and the wife has clearly no libido and has initiated twice in 21 years. You have to compromise somewhere and be realistic. What's the alternative? Suggestions welcome.


At our age, twice a week is better than most couples. Three or four? Pipe dream


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

I


In Absentia said:


> Good luck with that...


 have a better chance of winning a three-team mlb parlay. Hey, I did win that last night. Maybe there’s a chance? ... nah!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> I'm not sure, which is why I'm asking, why is it thought twice a week is pretty good?
> 
> Maybe three times a week or four, is a least target.


No way in hell that happens


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Tiger don’t change its stripes^ ... just miss how she used to be.


I miss that too... actually, I miss my wife...


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Few months ago, she said it didn’t matter to her if she has an orgasm. So, I quit caring about that. Big weight off my shoulders


I find this odd... you calling it it a “weight”.



Longtime Hubby said:


> Got the idea from dating her and the first 6 years of marriage. She often initiated. True.


So you’ve been together 27 years? She initiated the first six and then quit for the next twenty-one? Well, what happened twenty-one years ago?


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No way in hell that happens


Damn. Well, I hope it gets better for you. I'd think it's balancing out in your situation because it does seem to be working. Nothing personal meant.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> To begin with they are in their 60’s. Twice a week is steady and more than average for that age range.


I'm almost 60, wife is 59. It just isn't more than average for us, that's all I have to go on without more research I suppose. That's why I'm here. Lurked a while, and learning some more is my goal.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I find this odd... you calling it it a “weight”.
> 
> 
> 
> So you’ve been together 27 years? She initiated the first six and then quit for the next twenty-one? Well, what happened twenty-one years ago?


Second child


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Damn. Well, I hope it gets better for you. I'd think it's balancing out in your situation because it does seem to be working. Nothing personal meant.


Whatever works. Nothing personal taken, either. She's a tough one to figure out. Basically, all women are. Love the curve balls tossed my way. Like this morning. We are heading back to Ohio to visit her ailing father, not long for this rock, and I'm super busy with work. I hear the "you don't have to go if you don't want to." Ha. I'm no dummy. Translation: "I'd better see you ass behind the wheel driving me and the kids there and back." So I get my marching orders. Typical.


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## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

CountryMike said:


> I'm almost 60, wife is 59. It just isn't more than average for us, that's all I have to go on without more research I suppose. That's why I'm here. Lurked a while, and learning some more is my goal.


What are you trying to learn about?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Second child


Yeah, it's a weight, trying to get her to have the Big O. A fooking challenge with most women. So if you find it odd, Catholic Dad, so be it.


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

So one thing I will say is it doesn’t matter what “average” is. What matters is if you are happy or not with things as they are. What other people are doing and what they’re happy with is irrelevant.

You may never find the exact situation you’re looking for.

I think it would be quite difficult to find a partner who has exactly the same desire level so likely there is some compromise. You need to find an equilibrium level where you are not thinking about it anymore if you can.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Whatever works. Nothing personal taken, either. She's a tough one to figure out. Basically, all women are. Love the curve balls tossed my way. Like this morning. We are heading back to Ohio to visit her ailing father, not long for this rock, and I'm super busy with work. I hear the "you don't have to go if you don't want to." Ha. I'm no dummy. Translation: "I'd better see you ass behind the wheel driving me and the kids there and back." So I get my marching orders. Typical.


She doesn't share the driving on long trips? Why not???????


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

ccpowerslave said:


> So one thing I will say is it doesn’t matter what “average” is. What matters is if you are happy or not with things as they are. What other people are doing and what they’re happy with is irrelevant.
> 
> You may never find the exact situation you’re looking for.
> 
> I think it would be quite difficult to find a partner who has exactly the same desire level so likely there is some compromise. You need to find an equilibrium level where you are not thinking about it anymore if you can.


Kinda have. I know she never initiates. I know she finally admitted she has fantasies - something denied for years - but won't share any in hot chat during foreplay. A definite turn-on, so that's on me to supply ideas. I know I have to plan everything we do in bed - get to be my own adult movie producer in a way, kinda fun. And i know orgasm does not matter to her if she has one. So I no longer care about that. And it's a big relief. Would I like her to initiate now and then? Absolutely. Will she? We have a better chance to see a White Sox-Cubs World Series.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> She doesn't share the driving on long trips? Why not???????


It's not a long trip. 300 miles. She did help out on a recent trip to Georgia. I like to drive. Crank some tunes. Etc.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No way in hell that happens


Sounds like the problem isn't frequency, which is what posters who don't have frequency in their marriage are focussing on and telling OP he has it so good.

Truth is his wife isn't even into kissing him and seems to have no desire for him. 

That wouldn't be okay, for me.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Kinda have. I know she never initiates. I know she finally admitted she has fantasies - something denied for years - but won't share any in hot chat during foreplay. A definite turn-on, so that's on me to supply ideas. I know I have to plan everything we do in bed - get to be my own adult movie producer in a way, kinda fun. And i know orgasm does not matter to her if she has one. So I no longer care about that. And it's a big relief. Would I like her to initiate now and then? Absolutely. Will she? We have a better chance to see a White Sox-Cubs World Series.


Orgasms matter. Maybe not all the time but they do matter. I don’t think you should toss that off the table.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Second child





Torninhalf said:


> Orgasms matter. Maybe not all the time but they do matter. I don’t think you should toss that off the table.





Torninhalf said:


> Orgasms matter. Maybe not all the time but they do matter. I don’t think you should toss that off the table.


I know they matter. She says it doesn't matter if she has one. Enjoys the journey, she says. So be it. I get mine LOL


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Torninhalf said:


> What are you trying to learn about?


What are challenges in longer marriages, what may be common problems in long relationships, common solutions, and what's normal for all, many, or some.

Just stuff to see how others may be having their versions of good marriages, and how others may describe good marriages. 

We have a good marriage and I'm always a student on what's important to me, and this site looks like it has a wide variety of circumstances encountered. And wow, it seems like a lot of things to look through.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I know they matter. She says it doesn't matter if she has one. Enjoys the journey, she says. So be it. I get mine LOL


Im not sure if she is being completely honest there but you know her best. 🤷🏼‍♀️


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Livvie said:


> Sounds like the problem isn't frequency, which is what posters who don't have frequency in their marriage are focussing on and telling OP he has it so good.
> 
> Truth is his wife isn't even into kissing him and seems to have no desire for him.
> 
> That wouldn't be okay, for me.


It's not just the frequency, of course... but sex for the OP is not where it should be, meaning the wife doesn't put any effort in it, doesn't initiate, is not romantic etc... twice a week, double the torture...


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Sounds like the problem isn't frequency, which is what posters who don't have frequency in their marriage are focussing on and telling OP he has it so good.
> 
> Truth is his wife isn't even into kissing him and seems to have no desire for him.
> 
> That wouldn't be okay, for me.





In Absentia said:


> It's not just the frequency, of course... but sex for the OP is not where it should be, meaning the wife doesn't put any effort in it, doesn't initiate, is not romantic etc... twice a week, double the torture...


Torture? Please. Dude, once i get that engine revved, it's all good. I just wish the engine was a self-starter.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Torture? Please. Dude, once i get that engine revved, it's all good. I just wish the engine was a self-starter.


I didn't mean the sex, but the hoops you have to go through... who doesn't like sex?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> I didn't mean the sex, but the hoops you have to go through... who doesn't like sex?





In Absentia said:


> I didn't mean the sex, but the hoops you have to go through... who doesn't like sex?


I'm used to the hoops. It is what it is. Got the "contract" for Sunday mornings. Usually once another time during the week. Sex is like pizza.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Few months ago, she said it didn’t matter to her if she has an orgasm. So, I quit caring about that. Big weight off my shoulders


I guess if woman says O isnt important that just more emphatic statement that sex (with current spouse) isnt important to them. Another post when you said she was inspecting her nails while were down on her reminded me of joke in HS about girl eating potato chips during sex. 

Maybe at certain (varying age) some females lose interest because of hormones or behaving passive/aggressive to pay back something hubby did to piss them off.

For me, once r twice week quickie not much better than zero. Thankfully havent encountered this (yet). I have thankfully reached age where coast to cemetary if it becomes an issue


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I'm used to the hoops. It is what it is. Got the "contract" for Sunday mornings. Usually once another time during the week. Sex is like pizza.


I could never get used to them. I went through them because I longed that close contact with my wife, but they made me rather resentful.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Im not sure if she is being completely honest there but you know her best. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Sad thing is, she is being completely honest. I've talked to a friend who tells me a similar story from married life.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sad thing is, she is being completely honest. I've talked to a friend who tells me a similar story from married life.


Is it difficult for her to orgasm?


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Sounds like the problem isn't frequency, which is what posters who don't have frequency in their marriage are focussing on and telling OP he has it so good.
> 
> Truth is his wife isn't even into kissing him and seems to have no desire for him.
> 
> That wouldn't be okay, for me.


That would be horrible to me.


----------



## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sad thing is, she is being completely honest. I've talked to a friend who tells me a similar story from married life.


Only thing will is say is that isnt how married life should be. If spouse knows that by their actions or lack of they are making their spouse miserable, they are risking a lot.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> I guess if woman says O isnt important that just more emphatic statement that sex (with current spouse) isnt important to them. Another post when you said she was inspecting her nails while were down on her reminded me of joke in HS about girl eating potato chips during sex.
> 
> Maybe at certain (varying age) some females lose interest because of hormones or behaving passive/aggressive to pay back something hubby did to piss them off.
> 
> For me, once r twice week quickie not much better than zero. Thankfully havent encountered this (yet). I have thankfully reached age where coast to cemetary if it becomes an issue


Sorry, but I gotta disagree with you. It is important to her, she says so, we do it twice a week. That checking of her nails, by the way, resulted in my losing my erection fast, but she took care of that. I've talked with her a lot about the O. Female friend whom i asked said it's more about the experience sometimes. So I'm not losing sleep over that. It's not quickies, either. Far from it. But thanks for the comments and thoughts.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Only thing will is say is that isnt how married life should be. If spouse knows that by their actions or lack of they are making their spouse miserable, they are risking a lot.


Good point. And I agree with you. There could be a day when I meet a more - shall we say - enthusiastic woman.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Good point. And I agree with you. There could be a day when I meet a more - shall we say - enthusiastic woman.


😳


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> Is it difficult for her to orgasm?


Good question. It does take a while to get there. Seems longer than with past lovers. And even with her, compared to the early days. But there's a lot of factors, too. Age. Mind on parents in poor health. Etc. I did get mad the time I asked her what she was thinking about - during foreplay, mind you - and she said "work." Jeez.


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

So, she does have them, but not every time?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> So, she does have them, but not every time?


correct


----------



## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> correct


I think that's pretty normal... my wife had one most of the times, but not always and she used to say it was nice regardless...


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Good question. It does take a while to get there. Seems longer than with past lovers. And even with her, compared to the early days. But there's a lot of factors, too. Age. Mind on parents in poor health. Etc. I did get mad the time I asked her what she was thinking about - during foreplay, mind you - and she said "work." Jeez.


I will say this gently...maybe if she was having better more frequent orgasms she would be more enthusiastic. Do you ever use toys that may help her?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I will say this gently...maybe if she was having better more frequent orgasms she would be more enthusiastic. Do you ever use toys that may help her?


I totally agree with you. Yes, we have some toys that we use. With great results.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> I will say this gently...maybe if she was having better more frequent orgasms she would be more enthusiastic. Do you ever use toys that may help her?


A multispeed bullet vibe is popular


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Now I'm trying to figure out where your problem is. Few women are going to initiate. Is it a deal breaker for you?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Sfort said:


> Now I'm trying to figure out where your problem is. Few women are going to initiate. Is it a deal breaker for you?


No it's not a deal breaker. All i wrote the first post was it would be nice if she started more than twice in 21 years. If it was a deal-breaker, I would not still be here. And she used to start


----------



## Sfort (Sep 28, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No it's not a deal breaker. All i wrote the first post was it would be nice if she started more than twice in 21 years. If it was a deal-breaker, I would not still be here. And she used to start


Ok, that's probably not going to happen. I'm glad we were able to help.


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> Twice a week is steady and more than average for that age range.


27 years married is way above average. She really shouldn't expect him to be faithful, or married, at this point.



CatholicDad said:


> Well, what happened twenty-one years ago?


Second child was born. Does it every time. 

IMO/E LD women average initiating sex 1-3 times per year usually on a birthday, anniversary, Christmas or fathers day. Dead women initiate once in ten years.


----------



## Torninhalf (Nov 4, 2018)

Mr. Nail said:


> 27 years married is way above average. She really shouldn't expect him to be faithful, or married, at this point.
> 
> 
> Second child was born. Does it every time.
> ...


She should not expect him to be faithful? What?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Torninhalf said:


> She should not expect him to be faithful? What?


Yeah, that one confused me, too. No plans to not be faithful, even after 27 years. Some rough spots, but, jeez, come on now.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

Torninhalf said:


> She should not expect him to be faithful? What?


He has already tripled the average for faithful marriage. Why on earth should she expect him to do more than average???


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> 27 years married is way above average. She really shouldn't expect him to be faithful, or married, at this point.
> 
> 
> Second child was born. Does it every time.
> ...


Well, she owes me a lot of initiating. Let's see, 1 to 3 times a year, 21 years. That's up to 63 times, minus the 2 she did. gives us 61, Woo hoo, let the good times roll.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Mr. Nail said:


> He has already tripled the average for faithful marriage. Why on earth should she expect him to do more than average???


Well, they are those pesky vows said at the altar.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My earlier point is you call your wife’s orgasm a “weight”... I personally don’t refer to fun things as a “weight”. I think you should think about that. Why/When did it become a chore?

You also seem to read between the lines when she said “do you want to go with me” in visiting her ailing father but you didn’t scrutinize her saying “orgasms are not necessary”. You took this at face value and sort of act like you quit trying to help her O.

I think she’s likely being a little passive aggressive here by ignoring your request to initiate. Likewise, I think you’re being a little passive aggressive by giving up on her O.

I mean... sometimes a woman is tired, stressed and the O just can’t happen.. my wife usually says something (I think to make me feel better) like “that’s ok, it isn’t necessary for me I’m just glad to be close to you”... isn’t this just kind words.. my response is to come back next time ready to please! Don’t get the complacency with her lack of pleasure.


----------



## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

.


----------



## badsanta (Oct 13, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Few months ago, she said it didn’t matter to her if she has an orgasm. So, I quit caring about that. Big weight off my shoulders


I have not read this whole thread but from what I understand from my many years of reading is that there are some women that reach a point to where they don't really desire, want, or need sex anymore around her age. If she is willing to do it, it is because she still enjoys pleasing you as her husband. 

With that said, the dynamics of intimacy can be shifted around so that you make things much more interesting and enjoyable for the both of you. So if your wife enjoys pleasing you, in what ways can you make that dynamic more enjoyable for her? One way is to try and make sure that you are easy to please and let her know what you want (that does not involve insisting she get aroused in a way that you can control). Secondly you have to encourage her to enjoy having more control with your pleasure. She likely has some frustrations with you over the years and would love nothing more that toying with you to make you a little frustrated, but in a way that can be immensely enjoyable for you if you allow her to have fun with it and be in control.

Does this means she will initiate? Perhaps not. Perhaps she will do the opposite but in a much more playful way. 

Cheers, 
Badsanta


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> She swears she still enjoys and she has lots of fun once I get her revved up.


If she shoots you down 60% of the time, and doesn’t want to kiss you passionately, she’s lying to you. She’s not attracted to you sexually and doesn’t want you as a lover. Sorry.

You need to decide what kind of marriage dynamic you are willing to accept and what you are going to DO.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> My earlier point is you call your wife’s orgasm a “weight”... I personally don’t refer to fun things as a “weight”. I think you should think about that. Why/When did it become a chore?
> 
> You also seem to read between the lines when she said “do you want to go with me” in visiting her ailing father but you didn’t scrutinize her saying “orgasms are not necessary”. You took this at face value and sort of act like you quit trying to help her O.
> 
> ...


The word "weight" was used because it weighed on my mind. That's it


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Correct. She could initiate if she wanted to. Has decided not to


Stop focusing on whether or not she initiates.

The bigger problem is that she’s not interested in sex with you in general.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> If she shoots you down 60% of the time, and doesn’t want to kiss you passionately, she’s lying to you. She’s not attracted to you sexually and doesn’t want you as a lover. Sorry.
> 
> You need to decide what kind of marriage dynamic you are willing to accept and what you are going to DO.


Ouch. No offense, but we do have lotsa fun in bed. Wide variety. I think ya made a rush to judgment. Sorry.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Stop focusing on whether or not she initiates.
> 
> The bigger problem is that she’s not interested in sex with you in general.


Incorrect.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Livvie said:


> Sounds like the problem isn't frequency, which is what posters who don't have frequency in their marriage are focussing on and telling OP he has it so good.
> 
> Truth is his wife isn't even into kissing him and seems to have no desire for him.
> 
> That wouldn't be okay, for me.


That was my take as well. Given his responses, he is clearly not interested in hearing that message or considering that possibility.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Ouch. No offense, but we do have lotsa fun in bed. Wide variety. I think ya made a rush to judgment. Sorry.


Sure, that is a possibility. Good luck


----------



## Mpitts3446 (Jun 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> This frustrates me to no end. We have a relatively good sex life, average twice a week. But my wife has initiated just twice in the past 21 years. Once in the spring of 2000 when she was pregnant with our second child, and once in the spring of 2015. That's it. She claims she has a lower sex drive. I'd term it kinda on life support. I have asked her to start now and then, said it would be great. She says she will, she never does. Any suggestions? Do I just go with the flow? It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie. As said, we do have sex twice a week - which is great given our ages, both in early 60s - but it gets old always having to be the starter.


So do you flirt often? Do you make her understand that you love her and think she's beautiful outside of the bedroom? How do you start it? As a woman a lil older, those things are appreciated. Almost as much as picking up after yourself. As a society , its my belief that real intimacy is gone. Intimacy doesn't start in the bedroom. Men and women have lost the art of flirting


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> That was my take as well. Given his responses, he is clearly not interested in hearing that message or considering that possibility.


Lads, it’s all good. How long have you been married? I’m guessing never. Women are a mystery. She’s “into” me. You may not believe it. But it’s true. Having the mist sex we’ve had in a decade. Happy.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Mpitts3446 said:


> So do you flirt often? Do you make her understand that you love her and think she's beautiful outside of the bedroom? How do you start it? As a woman a lil older, those things are appreciated. Almost as much as picking up after yourself. As a society , its my belief that real intimacy is gone. Intimacy doesn't start in the bedroom. Men and women have lost the art of flirting


Yes. Lotsa flirting. It’s good. Happy in the bedroom. ALL I say is I wish she started now and then. That’s it!!! Like most married men.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> This frustrates me to no end. We have a relatively good sex life, average twice a week. But my wife has initiated just twice in the past 21 years. Once in the spring of 2000 when she was pregnant with our second child, and once in the spring of 2015. That's it. She claims she has a lower sex drive. I'd term it kinda on life support. I have asked her to start now and then, said it would be great. She says she will, she never does. Any suggestions? Do I just go with the flow? It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie. As said, we do have sex twice a week - which is great given our ages, both in early 60s - but it gets old always having to be the starter.


Sir, surely you're pulling our proverbial leg.

You're saying, reality is, your wife has instigated sex only two times in 21 years. You're not kidding?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

not kidding


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> Sir, surely you're pulling our proverbial leg.
> 
> You're saying, reality is, your wife has instigated sex only two times in 21 years. You're not kidding?


Not kidding.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Lads, it’s all good. How long have you been married? I’m guessing never. Women are a mystery. She’s “into” me. You may not believe it. But it’s true. Having the mist sex we’ve had in a decade. Happy.


Very defensive too... Look man, if everything’s good to go, cool. Good luck.

As for your question, I’ll be married 21 years this summer. 
And no, women aren’t really that much of a mystery. A little mysterious perhaps, definitely different, but not really that hard to understand or read.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Very defensive too... Look man, if everything’s good to go, cool. Good luck.
> 
> As for your question, I’ll be married 21 years this summer.
> And no, women aren’t really that much of a mystery. A little mysterious perhaps, definitely different, but not really that hard to understand or read.


Just grew weary of being preached to.


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Its your call, but if you keep hearing the same thing from multiple people, might be something to step back and consider.

Or maybe we’re wrong. Just make sure you’re not letting your ego get in the way of potentially important information/perspective.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Well


DudeInProgress said:


> Its your call, but if you keep hearing the same thing from multiple people, might be something to step back and consider.
> 
> Or maybe we’re wrong. Just make sure you’re not letting your ego get in the way of potentially important information/perspective.





DudeInProgress said:


> Its your call, but if you keep hearing the same thing from multiple people, might be something to step back and consider.
> 
> Or maybe we’re wrong. Just make sure you’re not letting your ego get in the way of potentially important information/perspective.


well, I’ve known her over 30 years. And all I came here looking for was advice on getting her to initiate more. Honestly. How many guys age 60, married 27 years, are on pace for 90-plus sexual events with wife two straight years? That is damn good.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Yes. Lotsa flirting. It’s good. Happy in the bedroom. ALL I say is I wish she started now and then. That’s it!!! Like most married men.


Flirting is initiating. Do you mean it's you doing all the flirting though? Don't expect most women to come on like pornstars by physically initiating.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> Flirting is initiating. Don't expect most women to come on like pornstars. If she's flirting, to me that's you being a very lucky man after this many years of marriage.


I do 95 percent of it


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## Openminded (Feb 21, 2013)

Very few women her age initiate.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Openminded said:


> Very few women her age initiate.


I’m learning that. Unfortunate. Last was in March 2015. I recall cuz I was stunned


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Ouch. No offense, but we do have lotsa fun in bed. Wide variety. I think ya made a rush to judgment. Sorry.


If you're having lots of fun in bed, you need to quit focusing on calling her out on a technicality of not initiating which just isn't in a lot of women's repertoire plus you have to consider what she's used to and what most women are used to is the man initiating. Honestly you don't have much to complain about at all. Flirting and having fun in bed twice a week, you are golden and your ego should not be suffering for any reason. I hope you're not trying to compare her to what women being paid to perform in p*** films are doing.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you're having lots of fun in bed, you need to quit focusing on calling her out on a technicality of not initiating which just isn't in a lot of women's repertoire plus you have to consider what she's used to and what most women are used to is the man initiating. Honestly you don't have much to complain about at all. Flirting and having fun in bed twice a week, you are golden and your ego should not be suffering for any reason. I hope you're not trying to compare her to what women being paid to perform in p*** films are doing.


Noted. And, no, don’t compare to porn. Ego is fine. Just be nice to not always be the one starting. I’m used to it. Just need new now abs then. That’s why we do different things in bed often.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Noted. And, no, don’t compare to porn. Ego is fine. Just be nice to not always be the one starting. I’m used to it. Just need new now abs then. That’s why we do different things in bed often.


New now AND then


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## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

DownByTheRiver said:


> If you're having lots of fun in bed, you need to quit focusing on calling her out on a technicality of not initiating which just isn't in a lot of women's repertoire plus you have to consider what she's used to and what most women are used to is the man initiating. Honestly you don't have much to complain about at all. Flirting and having fun in bed twice a week, you are golden and your ego should not be suffering for any reason. I hope you're not trying to compare her to what women being paid to perform in p*** films are doing.


Except that he’s the one doing 95% of the flirting and she doesn’t even want to French kiss him.

If that’s how some folks define “fun in bed”, cool. Twice a week is fine, but passion and genuine desire are just as important as frequency (at least for me).
Maybe I just have high expectations, but I would not be OK with twice a week duty sex from a wife that doesn’t ever initiate, doesn’t flirt with me and doesn’t even want to passionately kiss me.

I’d also recognize that it’s on me to be the kind of man that elicits enthusiastic sexuality from her.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Except that he’s the one doing 95% of the flirting and she doesn’t even want to French kiss him.
> 
> If that’s how some folks define “fun in bed”, cool. Twice a week is fine, but passion and genuine desire are just as important as frequency (at least for me).
> Maybe I just have high expectations, but I would not be OK with twice a week duty sex from a wife that doesn’t ever initiate, doesn’t flirt with me and doesn’t even want to passionately kiss me.
> ...


Everyone is different. People change. It’s cool.


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I do 95 percent of it


I'm guessing that's what she's gotten used to


Longtime Hubby said:


> New now AND then


After this many years, if you're pulling off variety now and then, you are doing better than most, I assure you.


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## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

My wife doesn’t initiate either really. However she’s almost always receptive and very affectionate. In fact, she likes to talk to me so much sometimes that I can’t make a move. Lol.

She’s probably a little spoiled because I always initiate and beat her to the punch. I like it though... she knows that I always want her.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DownByTheRiver said:


> I'm guessing that's what she's gotten used to
> 
> After this many years, if you're pulling off variety now and then, you are doing better than most, I assure you.


Thanks! Yep, variety is good, new ideas are very good ;-)


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

there is a saying that goes " if you end up in bed with a woman and she is wearing matching lingerie it was she that initiated sex first " 
and another point is it is not their fault if we as men are too blind to pick up on the hints ,
the fact that your wife is having so much with you at this age tells me she is a submissive and needs you to be the dominant partner 
it does not say she is or ever would be into any form of bdsm


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

the big question is , is the sex good willing to take part in love making sex are is it just doing it out of feeling duty taking it as she is doing it for you and if she does not she might lose you sex?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> there is a saying that goes " if you end up in bed with a woman and she is wearing matching lingerie it was she that initiated sex first "
> and another point is it is not their fault if we as men are too blind to pick up on the hints ,
> the fact that your wife is having so much with you at this age tells me she is a submissive and needs you to be the dominant partner
> it does not say she is or ever would be into any form of bdsm


Never heard that saying, and I am old. I think you are correct. Submissive.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

frenchpaddy said:


> the big question is , is the sex good willing to take part in love making sex are is it just doing it out of feeling duty taking it as she is doing it for you and if she does not she might lose you sex?


It is the former. Not the latter. Speaking of which ... see ya


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## DownByTheRiver (Jul 2, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Thanks! Yep, variety is good, new ideas are very good ;-)


Count your blessings.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I’m learning that. Unfortunate. Last was in March 2015. I recall cuz I was stunned


Mine was 2005...  I was shocked too. She had come off the anti-depressants and suddenly she got her libido back. Unfortunately, she went back on them 2 days later...  That was the beginning of the end.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> Mine was 2005...  I was shocked too. She had come off the anti-depressants and suddenly she got her libido back. Unfortunately, she went back on them 2 days later...  That was the beginning of the end.


sorry to hear. Fortunately - even thougt she still never initiates, never shares one little fantasy - we still on pace for another year of 90-pl;average more than 90 a year. For that, I am grateful.


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## Rus47 (Apr 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well
> 
> 
> well, I’ve known her over 30 years. And all I came here looking for was advice on *getting her to initiate more.* Honestly. How many guys age 60, married 27 years, are on pace for 90-plus sexual events with wife two straight years? That is damn good.


Maybe you said, if missed it my apologies. Have you just told her you want her initiating more? Does she know this is what you want? FWIW, am way older than you and married nearly twice as long, 1-2/day is normal. So everyone is different and if both of you happy with pace, who cares? My wife expects and wants me to be the initiator, that is what revs her up. She believes that is the male's role, and my desire for her confirms she is attractive. But if it was a problem for me ( which it isn't) all would have to do is tell her wanted her chase me and she would.

If you have already told her and she hasn't started initiating more, ask her why not? Maybe she gets excited cuz you desire her. I have no advice besides clear communication ( away from the bedroom ).


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## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Well
> 
> 
> well, I’ve known her over 30 years. And all I came here looking for was advice on getting her to initiate more. Honestly. How many guys age 60, married 27 years, are on pace for 90-plus sexual events with wife two straight years? That is damn good.


My wife and I have been together 33 years and married 31, both of us are in our early 50's. We have sex 3 or 4 times a week on average, sometimes 3 times a day on the weekend, lol. It is all about how tired we are. Extra energy generally goes into sex. So, in my eyes we are having sex pretty frequently, but my wife rarely initiates. Maybe not as rare as your case, but rare enough that when she does it is very surprising. Naturally I love it and let her know I love it. I've also tried to get her to initiate more often, but it just isn't her thing under most circumstances. I've learned to not let it bother me. She just likes me being the one that kicks things off. And she does reject my advances pretty often. I've just learned to better deal with the rejection when it happens and I focus more on the good stuff. She has also gotten better about how she rejects my advances. We usually engage in some other kind of intimacy. This all came from some very good, open, and non-judgmental discussions.

There are some great articles on this site: Sex Drive Archives - Uncovering Intimacy Lots of good advice on spontaneous and responsive desire, as well as how to accept rejection and how to be better at rejection. 

All in all I don't think you are in a really bad spot, but naturally there are things to work on. Even a good marriage needs some tweaking over the years. Everything worthwhile requires some work, so please don't give up.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Rus47 said:


> Maybe you said, if missed it my apologies. Have you just told her you want her initiating more? Does she know this is what you want? FWIW, am way older than you and married nearly twice as long, 1-2/day is normal. So everyone is different and if both of you happy with pace, who cares? My wife expects and wants me to be the initiator, that is what revs her up. She believes that is the male's role, and my desire for her confirms she is attractive. But if it was a problem for me ( which it isn't) all would have to do is tell her wanted her chase me and she would.
> 
> If you have already told her and she hasn't started initiating more, ask her why not? Maybe she gets excited cuz you desire her. I have no advice besides clear communication ( away from the bedroom ).


Oh yeah I’ve told her about it. She says she will; last time said was in May 2020. Still waiting. Maybe she just prefers being submissive. We clearly communicate often. It is what it is.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> My wife and I have been together 33 years and married 31, both of us are in our early 50's. We have sex 3 or 4 times a week on average, sometimes 3 times a day on the weekend, lol. It is all about how tired we are. Extra energy generally goes into sex. So, in my eyes we are having sex pretty frequently, but my wife rarely initiates. Maybe not as rare as your case, but rare enough that when she does it is very surprising. Naturally I love it and let her know I love it. I've also tried to get her to initiate more often, but it just isn't her thing under most circumstances. I've learned to not let it bother me. She just likes me being the one that kicks things off. And she does reject my advances pretty often. I've just learned to better deal with the rejection when it happens and I focus more on the good stuff. She has also gotten better about how she rejects my advances. We usually engage in some other kind of intimacy. This all came from some very good, open, and non-judgmental discussions.
> 
> There are some great articles on this site: Sex Drive Archives - Uncovering Intimacy Lots of good advice on spontaneous and responsive desire, as well as how to accept rejection and how to be better at rejection.
> 
> All in all I don't think you are in a really bad spot, but naturally there are things to work on. Even a good marriage needs some tweaking over the years. Everything worthwhile requires some work, so please don't give up.


Thanks for the advice. My advances last night were met with “sure, if you want to, we can.” Not a ringing endorsement, but I shrugged it off and had fun in bed. I want her to start - oh I don’t know- more than once a decade, lol. Tweaking always. Finally get half hearted French kisses after 15 years without. Before she was best kisser ever. So it goes ..:


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Thanks for the advice. My advances last night were met with “sure, if you want to, we can.” Not a ringing endorsement, but I shrugged it off and had fun in bed. I want her to start - oh I don’t know- more than once a decade, lol. Tweaking always. Finally get half hearted French kisses after 15 years without. Before she was best kisser ever. So it goes ..:


I've read through your (long) thread.

Nothing but empathy for you, and hope things get better in the physical and sex area. It appears every option regarding advice and things to try has been put out there. 

You sound like an intelligent guy so I'm betting there are other marriage components that are great, and you're steadily working on the sexual part.

Hey good luck!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> I've read through your (long) thread.
> 
> Nothing but empathy for you, and hope things get better in the physical and sex area. It appears every option regarding advice and things to try has been put out there.
> 
> ...


Sorry it was kinda long thread. Tried to write tight. Anyhow, thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated. We do have sex, probably average twice a week. So that's good. Yes, other parts of the marriage are great, thanks. She said years ago that "sex is the glue of a marriage." Not sure she still believes that. But I do. It's an important way for a husband and wife to connect. Yes, I do wish she'd start more than twice in 21 years, and not since March 2015. But that's just the way it is. She is open to new ideas in bed, and that is fantastic. So many people are stuck in the same old routine. Not here. Thanks for your reply, CountryMike


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## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Any suggestions?


Get back to trying to satisfy her too, instead of just getting yours. Maybe then she'll initiate. If you don't even try to please her, why on earth would she take the lead and ask for more of that?


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> Get back to trying to satisfy her too, instead of just getting yours. Maybe then she'll initiate. If you don't even try to please her, why on earth would she take the lead and ask for more of that?


I do try. A lot. It’s almost as if she holds back, kinda like not wanting to lose control by having an orgasm. She won’t initiate if she has Big O every time. “That’s the way I am” she says. Also says she does not need to orgasm each time. Explains a lot. Thanks for reply


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## frenchpaddy (May 31, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I do try. A lot. It’s almost as if she holds back, kinda like not wanting to lose control by having an orgasm. She won’t initiate if she has Big O every time. “That’s the way I am” she says. Also says she does not need to orgasm each time. Explains a lot. Thanks for reply


 women are not blind they see if we become interested in them through a few nice complements their way shortly before bed time and we think they should be falling all over us , 
or we take them out to dinner one night and expect sex when we go home as a repayment .
but the football match is more important the game we are playing on the internet and if she does not bring a beer over to us while she is passing the fridge when cleaning the house she does not love us 
We are all good at seeing the splinter in anthers finger while ignoring the plank in ours .

I feel seduction is important in both sex's , same rules stand , but know what seduction is becomes very important , seduction is not just doing the I gave you roses or I payed for dinner now drop them , 
beer belly is not very sexy , our dress thinking it is ok I can go down to the wallmart dressed I was the hardest work on site today they ware the same style at home .
it is the little things that can make a big difference in the seduction game as well as change and unexpected .and doing things with out expecting the pay off . 
A lot is put into peoples hears from an early age kids not seeing daddy showing any form of love 
young growing up been told things like when a girl is dating she is bad if she sleeps a guy before the 3th date so men all so know this rule so they take a woman out on 3 dates and then expect payment and it has to be good or better to make up for the 3 dinners I paid for , when you start adding rules it is going bad , when there is expectation and pay back your doing it for the wrong reason


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

frenchpaddy said:


> there is a saying that goes " if you end up in bed with a woman and she is wearing matching lingerie it was she that initiated sex first "
> and another point is it is not their fault if we as men are too blind to pick up on the hints ,
> the fact that your wife is having so much with you at this age tells me she is a submissive and needs you to be the dominant partner
> it does not say she is or ever would be into any form of bdsm


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^

There is another old saying that goes, "a man chases a girl until she catches him."

When men are the sole initiators of sex, we call it rape. 

Women are usually the true initiators - men just don't realise it. 

If you are having regular sex a couple times a week on an ongoing basis, she IS initiating. She just does it so differently from you and so differently from what you consider initiating that it doesn't register. 

women often don't initiate in the manner men do. A woman may go her entire life and never once say, "do you want to have sex?" And most women will probably never walk up to a man and grab his junk and say, "I want some of this!" 

But trace back through all the little signs and indicators of sexual encounter from start to finish and it is often the female that raises the first freak flag. It's just so subtle men often don't see it,, at least not consciously. 

Women may not overtly say I want to have sex, but rather signal receptivity. This can very subtle and cloaked in what may be normal activity and interaction. Holding eye contact an extra 0.5 seconds. canting her body towards you an extra 5 degrees. retouching her make up sooner in the day. primping her hair at time or moment that she normally would not have. a stroke across the back with her hand as she walks past you. 

It took me years to realise that if my wife touched her toes on my calf in bed as we were waking up in the morning that that was her Go Signal. 

Signals of receptivity are women's initiation and they usually come prior to a male approach and hard initiation. 

Now does that mean if some gal at the grocery store makes eye contact with you for 0.75 seconds and gives you a slight smile that it means she wants you to bend her over and give it to her bent over the fresh tomato section? NO. You still have to do the work and you have to do YOUR mating dance , chase away her other suitors and convince her that you are a worthy mate. 

- but it was the first signal of a long and complex ritual. 

But the same principle applies in your own home. If you are having regular weekly sex, she is initiating. She is just doing it in a different format than you and you aren't registering it as initiation.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> This ^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> There is another old saying that goes, "a man chases a girl until she catches him."
> 
> ...


We agree to disagree. She does none of the above. Says “sure, we can do something” sometimes when I suggest. Sounds like “sure, we can bring candy for the movie.” Not sexy whatsoever. Twice a week is good. Heading to the grocery store to find that woman you mentioned. Yes, My Spidey Sense has noticed flirting in the aisles


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## hamadryad (Aug 30, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We agree to disagree. She does none of the above. Says “sure, we can do something” sometimes when I suggest. Sounds like “sure, we can bring candy for the movie.” Not sexy whatsoever. Twice a week is good. Heading to the grocery store to find that woman you mentioned. Yes, My Spidey Sense has noticed flirting in the aisles



Yep....

I have no way of knowing what the deal is in the OP's situation.....for all anyone knows, she is "complying" merely to comply....Not that she may not enjoy it on some level, but for all he knows she is just being a 'good wife"..and could take it or leave it...I really don't know..and he may not know either...

And all this talk of men needing to do all the heavy lifting here? Yeah, I get that, but trust me ...there are plenty of women that have absolutely no qualms about letting you know they want some dyck....None of the mind reading of teeny cues and subtleties needed...

Has the OP ever gotten a text when he was at work telling him that the cookies she made are delicious, but not as much as his ****? Because yeah....some women do that.....lol...


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

oldshirt said:


> Women are usually the true initiators - men just don't realise it.


I have to tell a story from my past. 

Most men really suck at picking up these signs and signals and with the social and political climate today with all the Me Too and enthusiastic consent and accusations of harassment etc it's going to get even more confusing and guys will be even more hesitant and rightfully more concerned about approaching and initiation etc going forward. 

But that being said, men who are good at reading those subtle signs and cues have a distinct advantage over those of us who aren't. 

Back in my 20s I used to work with a guy that was hooking up with what seemed like every woman that walked by. 

He was not anything special looking or rich or powerful or anything. He was of slight build, maybe 5' 8" and 145lbs. Not bad looking in any way but not what anyone would consider particularly handsome or studly or anything. He wasn't what you would call overtly outgoing but had normal social skills.

Where he was gifted was he could see those early indicators and signs of interest where other people would just see normal daily activity and professional interaction. He could see that someone had let out a subtle little snicker at a joke or comment of his that wasn't actually that funny. He would see someone reach up and primp her hair for a split second or turn her body towards him a couple extra degrees.

He would then do his do his dance and pretty soon he would be getting down in the broom closet (figuratively speaking) 

But then he started asking me why I wasn't getting with the cute redhead in accounting or the blond the cutie in marketing. I would be like, "what do you talking about?"

And he would say, "she wants it Spaz!" (Cue in the movie Meatballs) He would then go on to tell me that when she walked by the desk while I was filling out a report that she slowed her pace and brushed her hair back from the side of her face that was towards me and shifted her eyes to look at me to see if I was noticing her "strutting" by. (of course I didn't)

I would tell him he was crazy and that a girl like her would never scope out a guy like me and that none of that stuff meant anything other than she had some papers to deliver and just happened to walk by. 

He was undaunted and told me to go talk to her and give her the nudge nudge wink wink and at least put in the effort...............well let's just say, he knew what he was talking about and was right  

So my point here, is women are often the actual first initiators. We just don't often pick it up with all the background noise of daily life and normal interaction.


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## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We agree to disagree. She does none of the above. Says “sure, we can do something” sometimes when I suggest. Sounds like “sure, we can bring candy for the movie.” Not sexy whatsoever. Twice a week is good. Heading to the grocery store to find that woman you mentioned. Yes, My Spidey Sense has noticed flirting in the aisles


It's been suggested your wife isn't really interested in sex with you and is doing it just out of duty, but you pushed back and got kinda mad. I think you should read what you report out as if some else was writing it and see what you think, then.


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## oldshirt (Apr 1, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> We agree to disagree. She does none of the above. Says “sure, we can do something” sometimes when I suggest. Sounds like “sure, we can bring candy for the movie.” Not sexy whatsoever. Twice a week is good. Heading to the grocery store to find that woman you mentioned. Yes, My Spidey Sense has noticed flirting in the aisles


OK but again, you're having regular sex so she is receptive. I'm assuming you aren't a rapist and I'm assuming she is a competent adult with free agency. 

She's not initiating in the manner you consider a hard initiation because she doesn't have to - you are already doing it. 

If she says, "sure, we can do something," that means you have already overtly put it out there and posed the question. You have already taken the risk. 

You've been married for decades and have your routine. 

And I suspect that what you are wanting in an initiation is for her to be so aroused and so intrigued by you and so attracted and desirous of you that she throws caution to the wind and risks rejection and puts herself out there and goes for broke on the chance that you might go for it and let her take you in passion ....... 

........ what that is describing is a horny dude making a new conquest, not a middle age wife of 30 years who's been having an active weekly sex life with her husband. 

If you want the above scenario to play out where you are getting approached and hit on and having a hard initiation taking place, you may be better served by going to a gay bar LOL 

But joking aside, you are kind of asking for something that is far from your normal routine that has been having the foundation of your sex life laid out over 30 years. 

The hot and horny chick coming on to you and making the overt hard initiation, is probably something that you'd have to go outside the marriage for. 

Your wife simply doesn't have to do any of that because Sex Day is coming up in 48 hours and she won't have to lift a finger. All she has to do is not run away.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

hamadryad said:


> Yep....
> 
> I have no way of knowing what the deal is in the OP's situation.....for all anyone knows, she is "complying" merely to comply....Not that she may not enjoy it on some level, but for all he knows she is just being a 'good wife"..and could take it or leave it...I really don't know..and he may not know either...
> 
> ...


Have dated a few. Sigh


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> It's been suggested your wife isn't really interested in sex with you and is doing it just out of duty, but you pushed back and got kinda mad. I think you should read what you report out as if some else was writing it and see what you think, then.


Didn’t get mad. But thanks for the diagnosis, doc. Again, all I sought was ideas on how she may initiate. Sex life is the best it’s been on a long time. Happy. Not mad. As my son says, ELMO - enough, let’s move on


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

oldshirt said:


> She just does it so differently from you and so differently from what you consider initiating that it doesn't register.


Yes, although sometimes my wife will have spontaneous desire and literally drag me to the bedroom but it is very rare.



oldshirt said:


> Women may not overtly say I want to have sex, but rather signal receptivity.


Last night as an example she says, “Should I put on PJs before bed?” That is her normal “grab my junk” level of responsive initiation.



oldshirt said:


> Now does that mean if some gal at the grocery store makes eye contact with you for 0.75 seconds and gives you a slight smile that it means she wants you to bend her over and give it to her bent over the fresh tomato section? NO.


Ok now you lost me... 😁


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Didn’t get mad. But thanks for the diagnosis, doc. Again, all I sought was ideas on how she may initiate. Sex life is the best it’s been on a long time. Happy. Not mad. As my son says, ELMO - enough, let’s move on


If you think "sure we can do something" said in the same tone as "sure we can bring candy to the movie" (your words, not mine), a reluctance to kiss, no initiation, no flirting, and no passion is all good for you, then that's great. At some point you might want to face what that means, though.

Edited to add: you sought ideas on how to get her to initiate. Someone who isn't interested in you sexually/isn't passionate about you isn't going to initiate.


----------



## pastasauce79 (Mar 21, 2018)

CatholicDad said:


> Where’d you get the idea that a lady initiates... porn?


Omg! 

Do you get many ideas from porn? Do you have a sex life that's not influenced by porn? How much porn do you watch?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> If you think "sure we can do something" said in the same tone as "sure we can bring candy to the movie" (your words, not mine), a reluctance to kiss, no initiation, no flirting, and no passion is all good for you, then that's great. At some point you might want to face what that means, though.
> 
> Edited to add: you sought ideas on how to get her to initiate. Someone who isn't interested in you sexually/isn't passionate about you isn't going to initiate.


Sorry, but the interest is still there. She’s more of a sub. That’s cool. Plenty of passion once spark is lit. All good!


pastasauce79 said:


> Omg!
> 
> Do you get many ideas from porn? Do you have a sex life that's not influenced by porn? How much porn do you watch?


Oh yeah, and use many ideas. Great source! Imagination helps too.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sorry, but the interest is still there. She’s more of a sub. That’s cool. Plenty of passion once spark is lit. All good!
> 
> Oh yeah, and use many ideas. Great source! Imagination helps too.


You said she's not even interested in orgasms anymore. But, what you believe is what you believe!


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I do try. A lot. It’s almost as if she holds back, kinda like not wanting to lose control by having an orgasm. She won’t initiate if she has Big O every time. “That’s the way I am” she says. Also says she does not need to orgasm each time. Explains a lot. Thanks for reply


HMMMM.... Really? It's just that the following quotes make it sound like she isn't getting much out of the deal:



Longtime Hubby said:


> Yeah, _*it's a weight, trying to get her to have the Big O. A fooking challenge *_with most women. So if you find it odd, Catholic Dad, so be it.





Longtime Hubby said:


> Few months ago, *she said it didn’t matter to her if she has an orgasm. So, I quit caring about that. Big weight off my shoulders*





Longtime Hubby said:


> *And i know orgasm does not matter to her if she has one. So I no longer care about that. And it's a big relief.*





Longtime Hubby said:


> I know they matter. *She says it doesn't matter if she has one. Enjoys the journey, she says. So be it. I get mine LOL*


Just reading all of this makes it sound like she takes longer to get there now, and that she is _keenly_ aware that you find it too much work. So, she let you off the hook. By the way, just because she says she doesn't need to O every time, doesn't mean never. As women, we often know when it just isn't going to happen or it's going to take a long time. She probably felt self-conscious for taking a while and could likely sense your frustration, so she decided this was easier.



Longtime Hubby said:


> Well, she owes me a lot of initiating. Let's see, 1 to 3 times a year, 21 years. That's up to 63 times, minus the 2 she did. gives us 61, Woo hoo, let the good times roll.


Sounds like you owe her a lot of orgasms, lol.



Longtime Hubby said:


> She swears she still enjoys and she has lots of fun once I get her revved up.


She may have responsive desire then, which keeps her from being more spontaneous. Might want to look that up.

Guaranteed if she were having a fantastic time in bed, she'd at least try to initiate some of the time even if it doing so is outside her comfort zone.

Might try some role play. Have her meet you at a club and pick you up like a stranger. Then rock _her_ world for a change, and see what happens.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Livvie said:


> You said she's not even interested in orgasms anymore. But, what you believe is what you believe!


He doesn’t get it because he doesn’t want to


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

DudeInProgress said:


> He doesn’t get it because he doesn’t want to


That's my thought, too. Along with he's been married to someone with lackluster attraction and sexual feelings towards him for so long he doesn't remember what anything else feels like.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> You said she's not even interested in orgasms anymore. But, what you believe is what you believe!


I said that she’s okay with the journey. If she has one she has one. Clue: most women do not have BigO every time, unlike the porn you watch LMAO


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I said that she’s okay with the journey. If she has one she has one. Clue: most women do not have BigO every time, unlike the porn you watch LMAO


How VERY OFFENSIVE.

I don't watch porn. It's really off putting that you would imply I do.

Also, I'm a woman, please don't speak for all of us. It's totally false that "most women" don't O every time.

You might want to take note of your aggressively negative response to me, and why. Hit a nerve of truth, did I?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> How VERY OFFENSIVE.
> 
> I don't watch porn. It's really off putting that you would imply I do.
> 
> ...


No, you didn’t. Chill that ego. Don’t play psychologist, either. Have a good weekend. It’s true that most don’t. Look it up


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No, you didn’t. Chill that ego. Don’t play psychologist, either. Have a good weekend. It’s true that most don’t. Look it up


Oh my, you are obviously having some issue.

No, it's not true that most women don't have an O during a sexual encounter. The way they get there may vary, but they are sure having them.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Oh my, you are obviously having some issue.
> 
> No, it's not true that most women don't have an O during a sexual encounter. The way they get there may vary, but they are sure having them.


Found this ... A recent study in the _Journal of Sexual Medicine_ found that women only orgasm 62.9% of the time with a familiar partner, while men orgasm 85.1% of the time. And women are even _less_likely to finish during casual sex, with only about 40% saying that they climaxed during their last hookup (compared to 80% of men), according to a study in the _American Sociological Review_.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Found this ... A recent study in the _Journal of Sexual Medicine_ found that women only orgasm 62.9% of the time with a familiar partner, while men orgasm 85.1% of the time. And women are even _less_likely to finish during casual sex, with only about 40% saying that they climaxed during their last hookup (compared to 80% of men), according to a study in the _American Sociological Review_.


I hit 100 percent


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No, you didn’t. Chill that ego. Don’t play psychologist, either. Have a good weekend. It’s true that most don’t. Look it up


Dude, are you completely blind to how delusional you are? 
Yes, most women DO want to O most of the time. True, t’s not the same as with men, but MOST women want it regularly.
There are occasional times when my wife is content to have sex without an O for closeness and for my benefit. But my wife (and most women I have ever known) absolutely want to, and expect to O, MOST of the time.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Dude, are you completely blind to how delusional you are?
> Yes, most women DO want to O most of the time. True, t’s not the same as with men, but MOST women want it regularly.
> There are occasional times when my wife is content to have sex without an O for closeness and for my benefit. But my wife (and most women I have ever known) absolutely want to, and expect to O, MOST of the time.


Blind? Delusional? Dude, I’m just sharing with how it is here. Why get your panties in a bunch? Not every woman is the same. Each I’ve been with is different and that’s fine. Not sure why it’s such a big deal to you.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Blind? Delusional? Dude, I’m just sharing with how it is here. Why get your panties in a bunch? Not every woman is the same. Each I’ve been with is different and that’s fine. Not sure why it’s such a big deal to you.


You’re absolutely right. Most women are not that interested in regular orgasms. 

And I also agree that the fact that your wife won’t initiate, doesn’t flirt with you, doesn’t want to kiss you and doesn’t care about having orgasms with you, are in no way no way indicative of her feelings or attraction towards you. 
She is totally in love with you and definitely attracted to you and is totally into the sex with you. Your marriage is good to go, no further consideration or self reflection needed.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

pastasauce79 said:


> Omg!
> 
> Do you get many ideas from porn? Do you have a sex life that's not influenced by porn? How much porn do you watch?


None, no, zero. I’m clean from all porn for over a decade or more... heck I don’t even look at lady swimsuit ads. If you read any of my posts I’m the biggest anti-porn guy on TAM!!

I just think that when guys start getting unrealistic ideas... must be porn. What’s wrong with that?


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Good point. And I agree with you. There could be a day when I meet a more - shall we say - enthusiastic woman.


LOL! Good luck with that, stud. Enthusiastic women prefer enthusiastic men, not a selfish man who will use her body as a masturbation tool, leave her hanging, and then call doing so a relief / weight off shoulders.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> LOL! Good luck with that, stud. Enthusiastic women prefer enthusiastic men, not a selfish man who will use her body as a masturbation tool, leave her hanging, and then call doing so a relief / weight off shoulders.


Sheesh. Why did I seek advice here about initiating only to be analyzed by a bunch of dimestore Dr. Laura Bergmans? Your insults are so far from the truth


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I hit 100 percent





Longtime Hubby said:


> Sheesh. Why did I seek advice here about initiating only to be analyzed by a bunch of dimestore Dr. Laura Bergmans? Your insults are so far from the truth


Her lack of initiation seems to be part of a much much larger picture of lack of enthusiasm and interest in sex with you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, brain surgeon, or a psychiatrist to figure THAT out.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Her lack of initiation seems to be part of a much much larger picture of lack of enthusiasm and interest in sex with you. It doesn't take a rocket scientist, brain surgeon, or a psychiatrist to figure THAT out.


Could also factor in her mother dying suddenly in Jan, her dad knocking on heaven’s door, and now my mom on poor health, worries about our kids ... so many factors influence us. So please ease up on the sarcasm. Again, everyone is wired different. We are happy in bed once we get started up. For the umpteenth time, all I fooking said was I wish she started more often. That’s it


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> None, no, zero. I’m clean from all porn for over a decade or more... heck I don’t even look at lady swimsuit ads. If you read any of my posts I’m the biggest anti-porn guy on TAM!!
> 
> I just think that when guys start getting unrealistic ideas... must be porn. What’s wrong with that?


It's okay to watch porn now and then. May give you some ideas to try in bed with CatholicMom.


----------



## CatholicDad (Oct 30, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> It's okay to watch porn now and then. May give you some ideas to try in bed with CatholicMom.


I like to think I'm more creative and intelligent than just "monkey see monkey do". I think all porn teaches is how to degrade someone or it turns sex into a circus act. 

Also, the actors are often victims of exploitation and abuse. Did you know that Pornhub reccently removed almost half of their content for this reason? So yeah, by watching porn you may be benefiting from someone else's suffering/exploitation.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CatholicDad said:


> I like to think I'm more creative and intelligent than just "monkey see monkey do". I think all porn teaches is how to degrade someone or it turns sex into a circus act.
> 
> Also, the actors are often victims of exploitation and abuse. Did you know that Pornhub reccently removed almost half of their content for this reason? So yeah, by watching porn you may be benefiting from someone else's suffering/exploitation.


Why diss monkeys?


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Sheesh. Why did I seek advice here about initiating only to be analyzed by a bunch of dimestore Dr. Laura Bergmans? Your insults are so far from the truth


Like half of my reply was using your own words.... 



Longtime Hubby said:


> For the umpteenth time, all I fooking said was I wish she started more often.


And, all I'm saying is give her a reason to want to.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> Like half of my reply was using your own words....
> 
> 
> 
> And, all I'm saying is give her a reason to want to.


I’m trying, really. But it’s awfully difficult when she stops short. Claims I make too much a deal of it, so I quit worrying about it. “It’s my body,” she says. Fine, whatever. You can lead a horse to water ...


----------



## theloveofmylife (Jan 5, 2021)

_"Tell me, have you ever really,
Really, really ever loved a woman.."_


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

theloveofmylife said:


> _"Tell me, have you ever really,
> Really, really ever loved a woman.."_


Though I know I'll never lose affection
For people and things that went before
I know I'll often stop and think about them
In my life I love you more


----------



## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Longtime Hubby said:


> This frustrates me to no end. We have a relatively good sex life, average twice a week. But my wife has initiated just twice in the past 21 years. Once in the spring of 2000 when she was pregnant with our second child, and once in the spring of 2015. That's it. She claims she has a lower sex drive. I'd term it kinda on life support. I have asked her to start now and then, said it would be great. She says she will, she never does. Any suggestions? Do I just go with the flow? It gets to be a chore, having to initiate every time and having to plan what happens in bed. It's like I'm directing my own adult movie. As said, we do have sex twice a week - which is great given our ages, both in early 60s - but it gets old always having to be the starter.


Give her a leather dominatrix outfit and tell her that it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.


----------



## Beach123 (Dec 6, 2017)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Blind? Delusional? Dude, I’m just sharing with how it is here. Why get your panties in a bunch? Not every woman is the same. Each I’ve been with is different and that’s fine. Not sure why it’s such a big deal to you.


Well if/since your wife isn’t having an orgasm when you have sex - what’s the point for her?
Make sure and give her a REAL orgasm every time and she will want to more often.

She doesn’t want to as much as you because it’s not pleasurable for her. When you “think” she’s having an orgasm sh may be faking to get it over with faster.

Learn more about how to give her an orgasm - a real earth shaking orgasm. She will be interested more often. When a gal has sex more frequently she usually wants it more and more.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Beach123 said:


> Well if/since your wife isn’t having an orgasm when you have sex - what’s the point for her?
> Make sure and give her a REAL orgasm every time and she will want to more often.
> 
> She doesn’t want to as much as you because it’s not pleasurable for her. When you “think” she’s having an orgasm sh may be faking to get it over with faster.
> ...


All valid points. Each woman is different. She said last night sometimes she does, sometimes not. I honestly doubt each woman has an “earth-shaking orgasm” each and every time. That’s cool, cousin. Enjoy times together. O is a bonus. She’s never faked. Not her style. She won’t initiate. Not her style. Long talk last night. It’s all good. Thanks. Now go get busy shaking earth!


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

ConanHub said:


> Give her a leather dominatrix outfit and tell her that it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.


Love it! When the whip comes down!


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> Give her a leather dominatrix outfit and tell her that it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.


LOL


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> All valid points. Each woman is different. She said last night sometimes she does, sometimes not. I honestly doubt each woman has an “earth-shaking orgasm” each and every time. That’s cool, cousin. Enjoy times together. O is a bonus. She’s never faked. Not her style. She won’t initiate. Not her style. Long talk last night. It’s all good. Thanks. Now go get busy shaking earth!


I think you are sorely mistaken if you think an orgasm is merely a "bonus" during sex for a women. And yeah, women do have orgasms for the majority of sexual encounters. I don't know why you want to delude yourself into believing that's not true.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> I think you are sorely mistaken if you think an orgasm is merely a "bonus" during sex for a women. And yeah, women do have orgasms for the majority of sexual encounters. I don't know why you want to delude yourself into believing that's not true.


Aye-yi-yi,quit the preaching, sister. Are you Dr. Laura Berman? Sheesh. My wife's mom died in January, her dad is at death's door, and now my mom is in a rehab center. My wife said last night all that stuff is weighing on her mind. Yes, even in bed. Life gets in the way of life. Lighten up.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Livvie said:


> I think you are sorely mistaken if you think an orgasm is merely a "bonus" during sex for a women. And yeah, women do have orgasms for the majority of sexual encounters. I don't know why you want to delude yourself into believing that's not true.


There you go - trying to make him question his knowledge of how the world turns. He's got this. Really! It's *all* his wife's fault.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> There you go - trying to make him question his knowledge of how the world turns. He's got this. Really! It's *all* his wife's fault.


This is from the post: "it gets old always having to be the starter."


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> REDACTED


Rude. You decided to post on a public forum and now are incredibly rude to posters.


----------



## BigDaddyNY (May 19, 2021)

Livvie said:


> I think you are sorely mistaken if you think an orgasm is merely a "bonus" during sex for a women. And yeah, women do have orgasms for the majority of sexual encounters. I don't know why you want to delude yourself into believing that's not true.


I try to give my wife an orgasm every time, but it isn't always going to happen and it isn't uncommon for women to not orgasm. And it doesn't mean it wasn't satisfying. My wife seems more disappointed if I don't orgasm, which happens from time to time, than if she doesn't. That is one of many reasons I love that woman. I'm not sure where you got the idea that women orgasm for the majority of sexual experiences. The data says otherwise. A 2015 study found that only 6% of women reported they always had an orgasm and another 40% said the nearly always have an orgasm. That leaves a whole that that only orgasm some or none of the time.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I try to give my wife an orgasm every time, but it isn't always going to happen and it isn't uncommon for women to not orgasm. And it doesn't mean it wasn't satisfying. My wife seems more disappointed if I don't orgasm, which happens from time to time, than if she doesn't. That is one of many reasons I love that woman. I'm not sure where you got the idea that women orgasm for the majority of sexual experiences. The data says otherwise. A 2015 study found that only 6% of women reported they always had an orgasm and another 40% said the nearly always have an orgasm. That leaves a whole that that only orgasm some or none of the time.


Thanks for backing me up, BigDaddyNY!


----------



## ccpowerslave (Nov 21, 2020)

BigDaddyNY said:


> I try to give my wife an orgasm every time, but it isn't always going to happen and it isn't uncommon for women to not orgasm. And it doesn't mean it wasn't satisfying. My wife seems more disappointed if I don't orgasm, which happens from time to time, than if she doesn't. That is one of many reasons I love that woman. I'm not sure where you got the idea that women orgasm for the majority of sexual experiences. The data says otherwise. A 2015 study found that only 6% of women reported they always had an orgasm and another 40% said the nearly always have an orgasm. That leaves a whole that that only orgasm some or none of the time.


Same. Sometimes my wife just doesn’t want to try because she thinks/knows it will take her a really long time.

Last weekend for whatever reason I was lasting like a porn star and had trouble getting there myself. When that happens a couple times in a row her lady parts get a bit worn out. Which is exactly what happened.

Occasionally if I know I’m really going to have to go hard for a long time I’ll just give up because I don’t want to cause this situation. In that case I just tell her straight up hey I’m stopping because this is going to be another 10 minutes and I don’t want to hurt you. She is usually supportive of this.

It’s a tight rope act. On the one hand you want to last long enough for her to have one. But sometimes when you do that it goes overboard and then you take annoyingly long.


----------



## Blondilocks (Jul 4, 2013)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Aye-yi-yi,quit the preaching, sister. Are you Dr. Laura Berman? Sheesh.* My wife's mom died in January, her dad is at death's door, and now my mom is in a rehab center.* My wife said last night all that stuff is weighing on her mind. Yes, even in bed. Life gets in the way of life. Lighten up.


And this is the time you pick to complain about her not initiating sex?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Blondilocks said:


> And this is the time you pick to whine about her not initiating sex? Geez, just clueless.


 I don't know if "whine" and "clueless" can be considered abusive. That's up to the moderator. The original post was about the past 21 years, not the past four or five months, but thanks for your input.


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Longtime Hubby said:


> I don't know if "whine" and "clueless" can be considered abusive. That's up to the moderator. The original post was about the past 21 years, not the past four or five months, but thanks for your input.


Wow, are you really that weak and fragile that you insinuate that someone using the words “whine” and “clueless” might be abusive and harken a moderator? You are supposed to be a grown man.
Just wow...


----------



## DudeInProgress (Jun 10, 2019)

Let’s see if I can summarize this 10 page thread.

OP:

I ONLY want advice on the extremely narrow question that I want to focus on.
Do NOT offer any other perspectives on any adjacent and potentially relevant areas.
I ONLY want advice that I agree with and that supports my narcissistic fantasy that my wife is totally in love with me, is attracted to me, is really into sex with me once we get going - even though she won’t ever initiate, won’t flirt with me, doesn’t want to kiss me and isn’t interested on having orgasms with me.
Do NOT offer any perspectives that question my narcissistic fantasies.
If you people don’t tell me what I want to hear, or tell me things I don’t want to hear, I’ll get snarky and arrogant. And if you keep it up I’ll cry abuse and harken a moderator.

I think that about sums up the last 200+ posts.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Let’s see if I can summarize this 10 page thread.
> 
> OP:
> 
> ...


“Here’s a quarter. Call someone who cares” - Travis Tritt..... seriously, who spends so much time and effort typing the above manifesto?


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

DudeInProgress said:


> Wow, are you really that weak and fragile that you insinuate that someone using the words “whine” and “clueless” might be abusive and harken a moderator? You are supposed to be a grown man.
> Just wow...


I got chided for less


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> “Here’s a quarter. Call someone who cares” - Travis Tritt..... seriously, who spends so much time and effort typing the above manifesto?


Why are you even on this forum if you hate it so much?


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Why are you even on this forum if you hate it so much?


I don't think he's indicated he hates the forum. Bouncing thoughts off a vetted group is of course a plus.

The discussion does seem circular at times but the objective is the bouncing.


----------



## Livvie (Jan 20, 2014)

CountryMike said:


> I don't think he's indicated he hates the forum. Bouncing thoughts off a vetted group is of course a plus.
> 
> The discussion does seem circular at times but the objective is the bouncing.


Well, his response to a poster who just spent time typing out a long response was "here's a quarter, call someone who cares." 

And it's not the first response of that type.


----------



## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Livvie said:


> Why are you even on this forum if you hate it so much?


I never said I hate it. I enjoy the banter.


----------



## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Livvie said:


> Well, his response to a poster who just spent time typing out a long response was "here's a quarter, call someone who cares."
> 
> And it's not the first response of that type.


I can dig what you're saying too. The dialogue does get circular and it seems nothing helps but I'm thinking the just talking with others helps him, and it certainly sounds like most other parts of the M are really good. 

Everyone wants to vent a bit.


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## CountryMike (Jun 1, 2021)

Now, all that I said, I have read some of the banned members thread and it seems like some come backs are at one's own risk.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

CountryMike said:


> I can dig what you're saying too. The dialogue does get circular and it seems nothing helps but I'm thinking the just talking with others helps him, and it certainly sounds like most other parts of the M are really good.
> 
> Everyone wants to vent a bit.


I agree with this. I think this forum helped the OP understand his situation better, i.e. it's not as bad as he thought...


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

CountryMike said:


> I can dig what you're saying too. The dialogue does get circular and it seems nothing helps but I'm thinking the just talking with others helps him, and it certainly sounds like most other parts of the M are really good.
> 
> Everyone wants to vent a bit.


Tell her it is tame compared to some other comments from people. Let’s face it. They are anonymous and can tee off on me. Yes, the marriage is very good. All I wanted was ideas so she’d initiate more often. And some decided to string me up. So, thank you, CountryMike, for your support.


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## In Absentia (Aug 21, 2012)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Yes, the marriage is very good. All I wanted was ideas so she’d initiate more often.


You might even get to 30 years like me!


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

In Absentia said:


> You might even get to 30 years like me!


We both signed on for another year. Say that each anniversary


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Torninhalf said:


> To begin with they are in their 60’s. Twice a week is steady and more than average for that age range.


But it does not have to be. She needs to check her hormone levels, probably need some T to go with the estrodial.


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> No way in hell that happens


She may just need some testosterone.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> But it does not have to be. She needs to check her hormone levels, probably need some T to go with the estrodial.


Never thought of that. Will mention. Thanks


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Never thought of that. Will mention. Thanks


When T levels fall in women and men, the sexual side takes a hit. Same for memory and brain function. Definate sign when people get older they find it harder to remember things or feel like their brains are in a fog and they just cant figure something out. Lack of testosterone!

Some women it would make them crazy if they knew their brain function was based on testosterone levels. The less male hormone you have the less your brain works.😂


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## Divinely Favored (Apr 1, 2014)

Longtime Hubby said:


> Never thought of that. Will mention. Thanks


My wife had hysterectomy 10 yrs ago and takes all the hormones and we are intimate basically 5x week. Alot of women prefer the pellet implants, my wife uses tge compounded creams. 

Your wife has a reactive libido so that means you are the initiator, the match that starts the fuel burning. Just the way it is sometimes. Look for other little covert initiations. Sometimes when i do not overtly initiate and we go to bed and spoon, she will start subtle wigling of her booty. Her way of saying, "Are you game, you want some of this?" It is an initiation. Watch for those cues, she does not giggle or any sign she is not going to sleep but that little wiggle....she knows i am going to be on that like a horny hound on a hot gyp.


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## 346745 (Oct 7, 2020)

Divinely Favored said:


> My wife had hysterectomy 10 yrs ago and takes all the hormones and we are intimate basically 5x week. Alot of women prefer the pellet implants, my wife uses tge compounded creams.
> 
> Your wife has a reactive libido so that means you are the initiator, the match that starts the fuel burning. Just the way it is sometimes. Look for other little covert initiations. Sometimes when i do not overtly initiate and we go to bed and spoon, she will start subtle wigling of her booty. Her way of saying, "Are you game, you want some of this?" It is an initiation. Watch for those cues, she does not giggle or any sign she is not going to sleep but that little wiggle....she knows i am going to be on that like a horny hound on a hot gyp.


She’s not big into clues. Honestly, its been eons. I’ll still be the ignitor. That’s the way it is. At least we have a Sunday guarantee. Her idea


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