# Need unbiased advice



## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

New poster here. I'll apologize in advance for the length of this post.

Married 20+ years, 3 adult children with the youngest graduating high school this year, 1 grandchild. I want to preface the icky stuff by saying that my husband is a good man. He is an excellent provider, excellent father & helps people every chance he can.

Our issues began roughly halfway into the marriage when he developed a serious drinking problem. I could type a novel about all of the bad things that period entailed but I'll just tell you that there was emotional abuse, suicidal threats, sexual badgering, and I suspect some infidelity even though he vehemently denies it. He drank hard for about a year, went to treatment for a month & continued drinking for about another year before he quit. Near the end of treatment, I had decided to file until I had to take the kids to visit him. Seeing my kids' faces filled with sadness over not having their dad was too much. 2 Weeks after he was released, he moved back home. I wasn't ready for it but felt I had no choice. I truly think it was then that I decided I would force things to work for the sake of the kids.

Last summer things hit me like a ton of bricks after my sister-in-law killed herself. I realized that I wasn't happy & that everything I had tried over the years hasn't helped. I told my husband that I wasn't happy & just needed a bit of time & space to figure things out. Ever since treatment, my husband has had this weird obsession about my fidelity. He has just been waiting for me to cheat, just knows that it will happen or is happening. I have been completely faithful & relatively ok with being kept on a very short leash until recently. I can no longer tolerate the control he exercises over my life. I had absolutely no social life, I did nothing with friends, participated in nothing outside of kid activities.

A couple of years ago, I got very sick & nearly died. My condition is now under control but I have realized that during that time, even though he was 100% supportive & attentive, he was also kind of giddy. It was like he was so happy to be the one in charge of & doing everything that I couldn't. He has told me several times that he has never loved me as much as he did when I was sick. Because of his alcoholism I was the only one that got things done & made decisions since he really didn't care what was going on. He stepped in & seemed to enjoy the alpha role a bit too much if that makes sense?

After getting my health back on track I have been losing weight & spending time working out in our basement. This drives him crazy. He takes it as a way I avoid him. I have been spending time with my girlfriends & that also drives him crazy. If I am late or something takes longer than expected, he gets upset.

Ever since I voiced my unhappiness, he has been a complete mess. I am watched like a hawk, it is not unusual for him to text me 40 times a day or call 20 times a day or both. I've tried to express to him that I just need some time to dissect what the hell is going on with me but he cannot give me any breathing space. I have stopped our sex life which I know sounds brutal but after years of being threatened or seriously guilted if I didn't, I'm over it. It is a relief for me to be able to say no & not really care about the backlash. He continues to practically stomp all over my physical boundaries & then get pissed that I am upset. I'm getting really tired of being woken up at 2 or 3am to him trying to take my pants off.

Every time we argue, he threatens leaving & actually will go so far as to pack a bag. This happens at least once a week. It used to scare me as I really don't want to upset our youngest childs way of life right before graduation. He is the main bread winner, I only make about a third of what he does & there is no way that I could financially survive without him. Every opportunity that he has me alone, he is in my face. He will back me into corners, trap me in rooms, whatever it takes to force me into a confrontation. If I forget to tell him hello when I get home or forget to ask how his day was or forget a nicety of some kind, he will jump on it. If I attempt to remember to do & say everything but I do or say it wrong, he jumps on it. When he gets angry, he says awful things. When I try to point them out later its always that I misunderstood him or that I took it wrong. Then he demands that I accept his apology & never speak of it again. He also threatens to call of the kids & drag them into our fights. And before it is suggested, we went to individual counseling & his therapist saw nothing wrong with his behavior. I'm questioning if he told her the truth.

Again, he is a really good man. He loves his family & professes his love for me constantly. I do love him but I don't think I want to be married to him any longer. He knows that he was awful in the past but doesn't understand why he hasn't "made up for it" by not drinking for several years & being a responsible adult. I don't know if I'm just being a witch or if I have basis for what I'm feeling. Our last child is almost in college, I've done everything in my power to give them a great childhood but I don't think I can live a life with just my husband. 

If you've read this all, thanks. I apologize for the scattered thoughts. Things have been exhausting.


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## SecondTime'Round (Jan 15, 2015)

Have you ever been to marriage counseling?


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## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

Marriage counseling was what got him into treatment. We haven't been back since as it isn't covered under our insurance & very expensive. We did go to individual therapy a lot.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Ok... I'll give it a shot, but am going to be honest.

First: you say your husband is a good man, has stopped drinking, is a good dad, and his therapist says his behavior is normal..

Second: You have decided you "aren't happy". 
You are working out in the basement and losing weight.
You STOPPED having sex with him and DON'T CARE.
You are wanting to hang out with girlfriends and go out and such-- have some freedom.
You show up late for no apparent reason.
You had a close relative die recently.

My thoughts: 

The comments in the second part are all CLASSIC indicators of a person who is cheating. I'm not in any way saying you are, but this is why the fear from your husband of infidelity.
Are you going to give him the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech?

You have had a close relative die, and your kids are out of the house recently. You are suddenly disinterested in your husband. You are wanting to go out with girlfriends.
These are classic symptoms/precursors to a "midlife crisis" and what I think is your problem.

Think of it this way... Back when he was drinking and being a complete ass, you loved him and didn't want a divorce.

Now that the kids are grown, you are considering your own mortality, and are no longer dealing with raising kids and such, what are you doing? You are kissing hubby goodbye. I don't think you're a bad person, I'm just pointing out what I think is leading to your total change of heart.

If you want to know what the deal is with your husband, I can tell you WITHOUT A DOUBT what the problem is. It's called hysterical bonding. And I can tell you for a fact, what your husband is going through is literally HELL. He is constantly after reassurance and intimacy (you think he is just a horn-dog that wants sex). He really wants sex, and MORE importantly, wants to feel close to you and sex is how we men feel that.
You are angry about the fact that YOUR HUSBAND LOVES YOU. His hysterical bonding is pushing you away further. You should talk to his therapist and explain that he is doing this. It is almost impossible to stop, especially since the further you pull away, the more his mind makes him absolutely CRAVE your attention, affection, and reassurance.

One question: If YOU DECIDE (your husband has no say in this, even though your decision is going to alter his life as well) to divorce your husband, will you ask for half his 401k or retirement, and half of everything else or spousal support?

The more I write, the more biased I feel. So I'll stop. Just some things for you to think about. 

I do pray for you both, and I ask that if you're going to divorce this man, you do it quickly and amicably---- the hell you're putting him through with this limbo needs to stop. If you feel this is all his fault and he is a bad guy, not worthy of your love, so be it. If you truly feel your husband is a good guy, try learning how to fall in love with him again. I think that would benefit both of you. What value can you put on a lifetime of love and loyalty to/from one person? Your kids certainly would want you to try.

Just my advice.
Good luck.


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## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

I appreciate your honesty. It is what I am here for.

The reason I began working out is because my illness demands it. I was sick for awhile but didn't know exactly what was wrong. It is still an issue that needs management but will not kill me any time soon.

I stopped having sex because I was tried of being forced into having sex. I'm fed up & done with that.

When I hang out with my girlfriends, it is at one of their houses or for a quick meal. We aren't cruising the bars.

I don't show up late for no reason. Occasionally the line for the tanning bed is long or the grocery store is busy after work. I'm talking a few minutes later than expected, not hours.

I have never been unfaithful, contrary to what "classic indicators" are.

Back when he was drinking, I did want a divorce & planned to file. It was the love for my kids that stopped me.

I told my therapist about his behavior which she thinks is alarming. We do not share a therapist.

If we divorce, I will ask for half of the proceeds from the house, my personal stuff & thats it. I've been poor before, I'm comfortable with doing it again.

I have tried everything in past 10 years to fall back in love with him. EVERYTHING. I'm open to suggestions.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I read this post numerous times and this is merely my feeling:

The OP is not genuinely happy being married to this man but feels an enormous amount of guilt leaving him.

She has put up with a lot of emotional abuse from him causing her to fall out of real love with him and now she is trying to save whatever soul she has left.

She was triggered by her own illness and the suicide of a family member to think, OMG, what about me ????

I think her behavior is expected having dealt with an alcoholic husband for many years.

Someone times after a spouse, this case the OP's husband, realizes they may have destroyed their spouses heart and soul, it is too late.


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## Evinrude58 (Jun 16, 2014)

Divorce. Amicably if possible. All you can do, if you've really tried.


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## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

Honestly, I am feeling an enormous amount of guilt for feeling the need to leave. His happiness has been my focus for over 2 decades. I am responsible for his happiness, I am responsible for making his life go smoothly, I am the fixer for my family. And I'm tired. I am not a perfect person. I have many faults and am not a constant delight but it has dawned on me that my own happiness might be important and maybe I deserve some? 

I grew up knee deep in divorces & was bounced around a lot between parents, grandparents & relatives. The moment my 1st child was born, I swore that they would never have to grow up like that. And I have kept that promise. Now, my promise is almost fulfilled & I can see the possibilities. I do not want to walk on eggshells anymore. I do not want to be guilted about everything I say or do anymore. I do not want to be reminded of how he was/is an amazing husband and contributed so much more than me. I do not want to be made to feel like crap anymore.

On most nights he falls asleep on the couch. I wake up him up to go to bed but that usually ticks him. If I don't wake him up & leave him there, it makes him more mad. Lately I have just been leaving him there & not really caring about the consequences. The other night he was asleep, I gently kissed him on the forehead, told him goodnight. He lurched up and proceeded to rip me a new one about how I was never to kiss him like that again. That he is my husband, not a child and that he wouldn't tolerate that crap anymore. If I had just left him completely alone, I would have had my butt ripped for not acknowledging him. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

I just want to be alone. I don't want to be responsible for anyone else. Not their well being, not their happiness, not their problems, nothing. I don't even want a pet. I want to be able to speak, act & feel what is in my heart and mind without being punished. I want the right to be me without the guilt trips. I'm tired of having my words twisted, I'm tired of always being told that I misunderstand simple statements, I'm tired of always being asked to fix situations & then being thrown under the bus. As tired as I am, as hurt as I am, the thought of hurting him is still brutal.


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## VeryHurt (Mar 11, 2011)

I understand your situation completely. 
Be Strong.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Marital counseling is alot cheaper than divorces.

He does not sound like a good husband, really. He sounds unpredictable and strange. But really hard to tell if your behavior has anything to do with his behavior.

My advice is individual counseling for yourself. You seem torn about what course of action is right for you. A professional could probalby help you sort through it all.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

tiredgiraffe said:


> Honestly, I am feeling an enormous amount of guilt for feeling the need to leave.


You should feel guilty for NOT leaving. Give him his life back. Leave him.

And did I actually see someone pointing out the cheating signs shown by the STARTER OF THIS THREAD? Kind of like "here are the signs, so you must be cheating"!!!

I was waiting for that poster to start recommending her to start spying on herself.

Bunch of one track minds here.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Hicks said:


> Marital counseling is alot cheaper than divorces.


Nobody that has ever come onto this site is UNAWARE that marriage counseling exists. 

Not as many may be aware that it is usually a TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. That's the marriage counseling "advice" we should be giving.


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## Nucking Futs (Apr 8, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> You should feel guilty for NOT leaving. Give him his life back. Leave him.
> 
> *And did I actually see someone pointing out the cheating signs shown by the STARTER OF THIS THREAD? Kind of like "here are the signs, so you must be cheating"!!!
> 
> ...


You need to get off your high horse about people seeing cheating. Envirude58 wasn't accusing her of cheating, he was pointing out why her husband may think she's cheating. If her husband googles "what are the signs my wife is cheating" it's going to be a list of what she's doing.

I've seen you pop off about infidelity like this several times. I can't recall a single time you were right. 

I do agree with the first paragraph though. Neither adult in this relationship is happy. Might be best to go ahead and move on to the next misery.


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## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

Back when I think my husband was cheating, he didn't exhibit those red flags. He just flat wouldn't come home or would go out to the bar with women.

I was diagnosed with 2 autoimmune diseases, one of which dam near killed me. I have to maintain a healthy weight if I want a decent quality of life. And losing 25lbs isn't drastic. 

I don't have chunks of unaccounted for time except for minutes. He knows where I am & what I'm doing 24/7. 

My husband has always had a huge range of hobbies, expensive hobbies that I've always been 100% supportive of. He was the one enjoying life while I was raising kids. I have always been happy with that, just wanted him happy. Now, we really don't have any shared interests outside of the kids. 

When I got sick, I realized how precious life is, how I had been taking the days for granted & not really appreciating every day. My husband does not share this outlook.

My husband has always expected the worst of me. He jumps to the worst conclusion, assumes the most disastrous of every situation. I have no doubt that he loves me but I'm not sure it's the right love for me if that makes sense. 

His self esteem has always been practically nonexistent. He requires a lot of ego boosting & I have always had to choose my words carefully to avoid any hurt or misunderstanding. He had an awful childhood, I'm sure that is playing a big part in the way he is.

We are going away for a few days soon. Hopefully we can revive our friendship & have some productive conversation. 

Looking this over, I see that I am defending myself. I'm always defending myself. And apologizing.


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## Marc878 (Aug 26, 2015)

Decide what you want. Put a lot of thought into it and move forward.

When some one kills a marriage it may not be possible to recover it.

You need to fix yourself let your husband do the same.

Nothing more destructive than alcoholism except infidelity.

Make your life what you want. You only get one shot.


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## Dream123 (Feb 20, 2016)

I just want to give you a big hug after reading your story. Research "dry drunk" and "codependency", this might help you to understand your husband's behavior and your own.
Your husband emotionally abuses you and it's not going to change unless he decides to change. You need to get out, dear. You deserve to be happy. Best of luck!


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## Left arm optimistic (Feb 19, 2016)

tiredgiraffe said:


> I want to preface the icky stuff by saying that *my husband is a good man*. He is an excellent provider, excellent father & helps people every chance he can.



I'm somewhat struggling to see how the above could be true given what you go onto say below. 




tiredgiraffe said:


> I could type a novel about all of the bad things that period entailed but I'll just tell you that there was emotional abuse, suicidal threats, sexual badgering, and I suspect some infidelity even though he vehemently denies it. He drank hard for about a year, went to treatment for a month & continued drinking for about another year before he quit.
> 
> I have stopped our sex life which I know sounds brutal but after years of being threatened or seriously guilted if I didn't, I'm over it.


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## wringo123 (Mar 8, 2015)

Op,

Except for the drinking your husbands behavior sounds exactly like my first husband. He was the one who ended up leaving when he finally realized I had no more fuxx to give and he no longer had the power to guilt or manipulate me. 

The last blow out we had was over him blaming me because he made an a** out of himself at my son's soccer game. It was my fault because I didn't stop him...never mind I was on the opposite side of the field when it happened. I literally laughed at him when he tried that and pointed out that if I had tried to stop him, I would be getting yelled out for butting in. I could literally see a physical change come over him when he realized that he was not able to mess with mind and emotions anymore. Within 3 months he found someone else who was willing to play his game and he left.

My point is that your husband behavior is very intentional and calculated. He is not a "good man" who loves you in his own way. He is a narcissistic abuser who only sees you only as an object to be used to fill up whatever hole is in his heart and soul. I know this may sound harsh, but in a sense you are not even a real person, you are just a source to be exploited to prop up his ego.

Please read "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. I read it several years after my divorce at the suggestion of my IC and it was only then that I was able to make sense of what my marriage had been about. The validation that it really was him and not me finally allowed me some closure and the ability to move on. I think if I had read it while still married if may have given me the courage to leave.

I hope this helps. 

Sent from my QMV7A using Tapatalk


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## tiredgiraffe (Feb 18, 2016)

We went on an amazing trip together, first time ever for us to a foreign country. We didn't get much talking done, I slid back into the comfortable place of just trying to keep everything light & happy so he enjoyed himself. We were pretty busy with pre-arranged activities so there wasn't a lot of time for fighting.

He made a lot self deprecating comments throughout the trip, a lot of comments about how I needed to look at that man or how he is unattractive he was in comparison, etc. While souvenir shopping he made comments about how he couldn't believe that I liked a certain item, that he doesn't even know me anymore, wondering where the hell his wife went.

The trip had a few stops that required some navigation through various airports. Having traveled a lot with my dad recently for his medical treatments, it was easy for me to figure everything out. This really ticked him off. I guess he would have preferred to be lost or miss a connecting flight?

The absolute worst issue was with the people in the resort room next to us. They were quite loud during sex. This eventually proved to be too much for H to handle. He tried to initiate sex, I told him no but he refused to respect that. I didn't feel that I could cause a scene as the walls were obviously paper thin. Afterward, he immediately went into some pretty major anger, threatened to leave me there & somehow turned it all around to be my fault. He now says that he feels awful about. I have just been trying to ignore it, still kind of shocked that he did it.

The rest of the time, he was very sweet. Very doting & always worried about if I was getting tired or coping with the physical demands of our activities ok.

A few days after we returned, my girlfriends wanted to get together at one of their houses for drinks so they could hear about the trip. This sent him into orbit, he was so mad that I was even considering going. I cancelled but that just irritated him more. 

He has stated that I don't look at him the same anymore and I bet he is right. He says that I can't have fun & enjoy life with him anymore. I'm beginning to agree, it's just too much work.

Even after all of that, my heart is still torn.


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## SunCMars (Feb 29, 2016)

tiredgiraffe said:


> We went on an amazing trip together, first time ever for us to a foreign country. We didn't get much talking done, I slid back into the comfortable place of just trying to keep everything light & happy so he enjoyed himself. We were pretty busy with pre-arranged activities so there wasn't a lot of time for fighting.
> 
> He made a lot self deprecating comments throughout the trip, a lot of comments about how I needed to look at that man or how he is unattractive he was in comparison, etc. While souvenir shopping he made comments about how he couldn't believe that I liked a certain item, that he doesn't even know me anymore, wondering where the hell his wife went.
> 
> ...


There is no life after death. You may be the exception. While not physically [dead], you are emotionally and spiritually [kaputsky].

You can resurrect yourself by divorcing. The process will wound you more but the reward will be worth it. 

You have done enough, stop the guilt trip to Nowhere Land.

You will be free of him. Heck, [after divorce] you can date him now and then, if you want. I would not recommend doing this, save for a coffee date [now and then].

You are to be commended. I know you do not want anymore men in your life, but you can still date, enjoy their company and then send them home. Worry about that later. Get free, now.


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