# Affection from my wife...ladies any ideas?



## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Sorry for the long post. Ran across this forum and after reading more than a few threads, decided to chime in.

Married for 15, going on 16 years.

My wife was never a "sexual" person. I understand that now. She has something that happened in her past, and while she claims it doesn't effect her at all it does. I guess I should start from the beginning, again...it's going to be long.

We didn't date very long at all. Now neither of us were just out of school, so we both had relationships before we met.

She was the first and only woman I've ever loved. It's hard to explain, and I can explain anything..but explaining that is hard somehow.

Lived together for a good bit, then got married. Both decided to have a child, and she was insistent on being a stay at home mom, at least until school started. Said she could wait until we could afford it, but she wanted to be there for her child. 

This makes more sense if you knew her Mother is a functioning (barely) alcoholic, and her "Father" stood by while her stepmother basically beat the crap out of her and he sister when they came to live with their Dad when my W was 12 or so. 

So we had our son. He's 15 now. After our son's birth A LOT of things changed. I have a high sex drive...I'll admit that. And she is VERY shy about anything involving sex. She won't even masturbate. And NO I'm not joking and ladies I'm serious...she has never pleasured herself.

She ended up having some medical issues after our son's birth. Lactose intolerant, IBS symptoms. She saw doctors, and when they didn't give her immediate answers, she just "Accepted" her problems and stopped going to the Doctor.

At one point her Medical Doctor ended up prescribing an anti-depressant for her. This GREATLY helped for a while. Until my wife, still a stay at home mom, decided that she would take it when she felt like it. The immediate "slide back" was apparent.

She used "it's expensive" excuse. Then it was the "I'm not myself when I take it" excuse. Then the "Why should I change myself for anyone else." excuse. When in reality, she was more like herself when she took the meds.

Around this time she dropped a bomb on me and told me she didn't love me "Like a wife should love a husband". No EA's or PA's AT ALL. So we went almost TWO YEARS without her so much as touching me. I sucked it up. It was my family. All I could picture was me being a Father on the weekends, if I was lucky. No thanks.

Then she started working. I understand NOW what effect staying home with a small child had on her. But it was HER Idea and she insisted.

Things got better. Although at that point I admit anything was better.

We saw a marriage counselor at my prompting. I was surprised how open she was with the counselor. Had a couple of visits then the counselor wanted to see her alone. No problem. She had one visit, then decided "she didn't need counseling".

Things gradually improved. Although in retrospect I think they didn't so much improve as I just wrapped myself in other things.

My wife started working 3pm-11pm. She had for the past 8-9 years or so.

I became so wrapped up in my son, coaching sports, things with the house, my work, everyday life...I think I just put my feelings on the backburner and moved on. What was I going to do? Leave? It's MY family. 

We bought a bigger house 4-5 years ago, the bigger house she and I both wanted, better neighborhood etc.

Now as my son had gotten older, and I have more and more free time on my hands, I realize I don't think it ever changed.

It's not just sex. It's AFFECTION.

I'm not clingy. I'm not needy. I'm the husband that brings flowers to her work every birthday and Valentine's day. I stopped doing that after she told me she got embarrassed at work "Because all the girls at work tell me how luck I am blah blah blah".

Still no EA's or PA's. If she has any, she's a magician.

She once told me that it wasn't that she didn't want sex with me, it was she didn't want sex period.

She is almost OCD about cleaning. But I'm no couch potato husband. I'm not big fat guy who sits around all day. I cook, I clean, I do laundry....but it seems whenever I do something, I don't do it the right way. Many times this makes me want to NOT do anything.

There is almost no affection. Zilch. Nada.

Our sex life "improved" BUT she has to have a few drinks in her. It's like it loosens her up and she loses some of her inhibitions. I know she enjoys sex...hell I know she orgasms...I make her pleasure my priority. She's not faking, she's not the type...and I had enough relationships with women before I was married, that I know what a female orgasm feels like. Unless she fakes the leg shakes and the heavy breathing and the flushed skin..if so...well she deserves an academy award.

If it's not one us leaving the room...I have to be the one to kiss or hug.

If I try the cold shoulder routine, it changes nothing. It's like she doesn't even notice.

Because of her schedule (3pm-11pm with rotating days off) I look forward to her days off so we can go out, have a few drinks etc.

But except for every 4th weekend, I always have to work the next day. I never complain. I normally don't go to bed until midnight or later anyway.

Lately it seems like she tries to outwait me on her nights off...so I'll go to bed before she does. She says "I can't go right to bed, I'm used to being up late."

She couldn't tell you the last time we made love...it truly doesn't seem to matter to her.

I have the be the initiator. If I'm not we don't have sex. I take that back...maybe once every few months, if she's had a drink or two, she'll "Initiate" by turning towards me in bed and asking me "Are you sleepy?". That's "her way". Okay I can deal with that.

And it's not just sex. Hell I've told her flat out...being in bed with her naked and just making out is more than enough for me. But most times she doesn't want foreplay...it seems as if she wants to just get it over with.

I feel like I'm stuck.

If I talk to her about it..."I'm being pushy. I'm blaming her."

She normally responds (without being nasty about it)

"I know. I need to be better at it. I'll work on it. We need to set date night and nights for us to be together."

Tried that. Set up a date night once...looked forward to it all week....she forgot all about it.

I'm just at wit's end. I don't want to lose my family...because it will definitely effect my son as well. Not just having both parents at home, but his everyday life. Without both incomes, we'd have to sell the house. And with the market the way it is, we'd be lucky to break even.

I can't even believe I'm talking about splitting up.

I literally feel like if I NEVER said a word to her about our marriage, she'd be PERFECTLY FINE.

I almost feel like the prime of my life (hell I'm not even FORTY YET) is done...and for what?

So if you didn't fall asleep reading this...

Ladies don't think that it's just about sex. It's about affection.

And not all men are dogs running around in heat. Meaningless sex doesn't do anything for me. I had enough of that before I got married.

The thought of being single again is just nuts. But at this point I feel like I have roommate...and that's about it.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

What if I told you that none of this - Zip, nada, zilch, is about you?

Would you believe me?


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Conrad said:


> What if I told you that none of this - Zip, nada, zilch, is about you?
> 
> Would you believe me?


I would believe you. My wife has issues that she has glossed over and ignored and they keep popping back up.

So how do I get her to address them? 

How do I do that without getting her to the point where she says "That's just the way I am. Take it or leave it."

She has said that before. Granted a long time ago.



I've tried the "Improve your life, be your own man and your wife will want you more" thing. I've always been like that. 

No I'm not some super stud, but my mood is pretty solid. I'm upbeat regardless of the day. Everybody has their bad days, but I try to keep my keel even on most all days.

I joke about it to myself, but sometimes it doesn't feel like a joke...when my son leaves the house, I'll end up getting divorced.

The weird thing is my wife would never bring up a relationship talk.


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

So, you're looking for the magic button that's going to make her see the light?

Would you be willing to accept the idea that her childhood issues actually have "broken" her emotionally? So, no matter what sort of quality input or questions you ask, nothing will change - absolutely nothing - until she desires it.

She's letting you know. The current arrangement is fine for her.

What if I told you she's secretly angry with you? You are the stand-in for the people she's "really" angry with - those that abused her so long ago.

She sees every request she grants you as you (the person she's angry with) "winning" and her "losing". How do you think logical appeals to reason come across in this environment?

I'd be willing to bet if you two have really "gotten into" an argument (where you lose your temper), she would actually show satisfaction and delight - perhaps a mocking smile - as you lose your cool. That's how people respond when those they despise are in distress.

Think about this... you've spent 16 years trying to find the "right formula". How's that workin' for ya?


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

I wish there was a "magic button" I know there isn't.

And to be honest, as far as getting into a "real" argument? She normally just says her peace and shuts down...usually throws in one of those "this again....I'm getting tired of talking about this over and over.."

Even though I can't remember the last time I brought it up.

If I mention affection or sex, she usually readily admits she needs to do more....and then never does.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

Why would she need to do more? Where is the motivation?

The marriage is just fine for HER.

The million dollar question is are YOU okay with it and what are you willing to do about it?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Mavash. said:


> Why would she need to do more? Where is the motivation?
> 
> The marriage is just fine for HER.
> 
> ...


Yes...I guess that's the real question.

Dammit...no magic fairy dust around here?


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## Conrad (Aug 6, 2010)

CantBeJustMe said:


> I wish there was a "magic button" I know there isn't.
> 
> And to be honest, as far as getting into a "real" argument? She normally just says her peace and shuts down...usually throws in one of those "this again....I'm getting tired of talking about this over and over.."
> 
> ...


If you want this to change, she will have to change it. Acknowledging her anger issues and her anger with you - specifically - which manifests itself in her impatience and lack of forgiveness.

I suppose I'll ask it this way. Why are you still submitting to her?


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

Conrad said:


> If you want this to change, she will have to change it. Acknowledging her anger issues and her anger with you - specifically - which manifests itself in her impatience and lack of forgiveness.
> 
> I suppose I'll ask it this way. Why are you still submitting to her?


Man...that's a tough question.

I guess I need a wake up call. The ball is literally in my court.


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## Mavash. (Jan 26, 2012)

CantBeJustMe said:


> Man...that's a tough question.
> 
> I guess I need a wake up call. The ball is literally in my court.


Yes it is. 

You've kept up your end of the bargain by being a good husband but she clearly isn't interested in doing anything in return because she has no reason to.

I'd love to see you do 'less' and when she wants you to change you tell her you'll 'work on it' and that you know you 'need to do more' then don't. See if she likes not having HER needs met for a change.

Turn the tables.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

Cant,

There is a combination of art/science to this. 

First acknowledge that you are not yet a "specialist" in this area. Go read some books. 

"Married man sex life" by Athol Kay is practical and easy to understand. 

NMMNG - no more mister nice guy is also good. 

Read and learn before you begin to tinker with your marriage. And then create a plan that makes sense for YOU and begin to execute on it. 

You are going to end up somewhere on this spectrum:

- Creating a lot of desire in her (this is the gold standard but is not necessary)
- Getting her to teach you how to make the entire experience enjoyable for her - not just the big O, the whole thing. And getting her to teach herself to relax and let you get her in the mood - when she starts out in neutral.
- Getting her to recognize that reciprocity is good and helping her learn to enjoy sex from the vantage point of making you happy.
- Recognizing that your happiness/unhappiness is unimportant to you and making a rational decision about your marriage.

It will only take one week to read and learn the basics. And 2-3 months to practice/execute and become more skilled in doing this stuff. 










CantBeJustMe said:


> Man...that's a tough question.
> 
> I guess I need a wake up call. The ball is literally in my court.


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## Runs like Dog (Feb 25, 2011)

You seem to have all the cliche maladies and excuses for her down pat.


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## Trenton (Aug 25, 2010)

I have a few questions for you. Was your wife ever sexually abused that you know of? The having to drink to orgasm is sort of a tip off for that or the fact that she's completely insecure and uneducated about her own sexuality.

Do you think your wife would describe herself as happy?

Have you ever talked to your wife directly about what you're posting here? 

I'm getting she thinks you're unhappy with sex, does she realize how unhappy you are overall? Have you told her that you feel like you're approaching mid-life, looking around and wondering how the beep things got to this?


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

MEM11363 said:


> Cant,
> 
> There is a combination of art/science to this.
> 
> First acknowledge that you are not yet a "specialist" in this area. Go read some books.


Believe it or not I've read a ton of books. I guess this post was more or less a venting session.



> "Married man sex life" by Athol Kay is practical and easy to understand.


Okay after reading your post I googled this guy and the book. Read a bit of his blog, then ordered the book in pdf format.

I read probably half of it last night.

WOW. THANKS for this tip. So much stuff makes sense now.

The messed up part is that I know most of what's in the book....I guess I'd just forgotten it.




> NMMNG - no more mister nice guy is also good.
> 
> Read and learn before you begin to tinker with your marriage. And then create a plan that makes sense for YOU and begin to execute on it.
> 
> ...


Appreciate the response. I guess I simply forgot something very important lately..

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."


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## CantBeJustMe (Jan 27, 2012)

> I have a few questions for you. Was your wife ever sexually abused that you know of?


I tried to have my wife address this when we went to a marriage counselor and even tried to her to get counseling. The answer to your question is "yes".

There wasn't what I'd call full blown sexual abuse, as in intercourse or sexual acts, but there was definitely some inappropriate behavior from one of her teenage cousins when she was growing up.

Her home life was beyond ****ty. Her mother is an alcoholic, never violent, just lots of drama. Her and her sister ended up living with their Father and his new wife (I use the term Father simply as a reference to the person who provided the sperm for their birth). The truly messed up part?

Their stepmother was verbally, emotionally and occasionally physically abusive. Not horribly violent, but the Stepmother was their Father's original High School girlfriend. My wife's Mother actually "Stole" the Father away from this girl originally. So for several years the now Stepmother had to look at two girls who looked just like the girl in high school who stole her man.

Almost Jerry Springer worthy.

Almost zero drama now. Very limited contact with her family, if at all.

Long story short, do I think this has effected her? Yes.

But honestly I think it's more of the fact she's just very sexually inhibited.

She constantly told me when we were dating how she had never had (or wanted to) sex as much as we did....and she was (even then) very shy about her body.

I know she orgasms...I know some will think I'm fooling myself, but there are physical signs that can't be faked. But she has trouble "letting herself get there". 

Once she had a few drinks, and I don't mean drunk, she definitely loosens up quite a bit.

Since she had rotating days off and she works evenings, it also adds to a different schedule as far as sex goes.







> The having to drink to orgasm is sort of a tip off for that or the fact that she's completely insecure and uneducated about her own sexuality.


Yes, sex is almost taboo to her. It's something "very private" and she is still shy about it, but in the past year or so she seems to have loosened up some.



> Do you think your wife would describe herself as happy?


Honestly, I think she would.

The odd thing, not really odd after reading the recommended book a bit last night, she would be perfectly fine with a very limited sex life.

I tried the "cold shoulder" years ago...and what happened is that VERY RARELY she would initiate, the sex would be very good...but that seemed to satisfy her for a long while. Where as it just made me even more high desire.

I didn't truly realize that I had become so easy at making excuse for her, even to myself. I realized that last night. The light bulb literally went off.

What did the author say...my "Rationalization Hamster" has been running full tilt, and I just didn't realize it.



> Have you ever talked to your wife directly about what you're posting here?
> 
> I'm getting she thinks you're unhappy with sex, does she realize how unhappy you are overall? Have you told her that you feel like you're approaching mid-life, looking around and wondering how the beep things got to this?


Yes we've talked about it. In the past , not recent past, I handled it all wrong. I know that now.

I became aggravated, frustrated, then when it did get to me enough to bring it up, of course I came off as such. Not real conducive to those talks to her I would assume.

Recently I've brought it up in conversation and it honestly is a case of her just not thinking about sex.

This thread was just me venting and getting frustrated and not realizing that I'm basically looking for her to be the sexual aggressor sometimes, because I still hold some resentment for the past issues with sex.

I can only remember one time in recent memory where I initiated and she actually turned me down. Not counting "that time of the month"...she's not real big on being sexual DURING, but right after is when she's most receptive. Imagine that.


Honestly I appreciate the candor of these posts. So much I've read is all about being, not so much passive, but more hands off...and I realize now that's not the case.

While I love my wife greatly, I realize now that when I get frustrated (insert other feeling here) with sex and affection, it effects me in everyday life, and she can sense that.

It's a defensive guilt action on her part, and that makes sense to me now.

As for extramarital affairs (PA or EA) she's never had one. I know many people would say "Sure, you think that now."

But honestly, if she IS or has HAD an affair in the last ten years, she is truly a magician. Her schedule, my son's schedule plus mine..I just don't see how she could pull it off.

No changes in behavior or dress etc. 

The true problem here is ME. I've accepted her behavior. I'm enabling her to deprive me, her husband of affection and sex.

I realize now I've also let this change me in personality and physically.

I'm not couch potato, but FOR ME, I've let myself go a bit. As a former college athlete and someone who participates and coaches sports, I've kind of lost that.

I started my first workout last night. Already planning my diet plan and workout routine. I'll be getting a family membership at local fitness center (we were already discussing that, as both my son and wife showed interest in it).

I've got to work on ME first. If she notices, GREAT. If she doesn't GREAT..because I've got to get ME back.

Thanks for the feedback and the candor. It was the kick I needed, added with the book that was recommended.

As callous as this seems, I need to get ME right first. And after that happens, other women will notice, even if my wife doesn't. That of course builds confidence. And I've always been a confident person.

I'll try to keep this thread updated, even if just for my own sanity.

Thanks!!!


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