# Today my wife finally allowed me a round of sex...



## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....

In such a context, what would you do?


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

leave her.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

chillymorn said:


> leave her...


*...like yesterday! There's absolutely no excuse for a "loving" wife to mistreat her husband like that! Sexually or otherwise!*


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## Forest (Mar 29, 2014)

arbitrator said:


> *...like yesterday! There's absolutely no excuse for a "loving" wife to mistreat her husband like that! Sexually or otherwise!*


Since she seemingly has little regard for you, maybe you should try out some dubious tactics.

Go about your day completely carefree and self centered. When you bump into her, give her lots of attention and compliments. Ask her about her unmet needs for a few minutes. Then, go on about your business, and ignore her. Spend money on yourself, dress sharp, and tell people lies they want to hear.


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

I wouldnt havent even touched her. You were better off taken care of yourself.


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## ChargingCharlie (Nov 14, 2012)

Don't bother with sex with her. This is why I don't try to initiate sex with the wife - if she did consent, it would be like the OP's wife, and I'm not going for that. If she's in the mood, she knows where to find me. Since she's never in the mood, we never have sex. 

Let me guess - before you were married, and maybe early on in the marriage, she acted like she liked sex. Now that she has you hooked, her true feelings come out and she'll consent to sex under her rules. No thanks.


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## batsociety (Jan 23, 2015)

What is sex with your wife usually like?

Because to me, this sounds like a dig at your usual sexual behavior. It sounds like "just carry on not giving a sh*t as to whether or not I'm getting anything out of this, like usual".


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## Hopeful Cynic (Apr 27, 2014)

justamale51 said:


> ... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....
> 
> In such a context, what would you do?


Learn to do things she likes better. Are you a bad kisser? Are you too rough with her breasts? There are reasons for her restrictions, and you need to learn what they are to know what to do.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Lila said:


> It's the Men's Forum but I think a little sprinkle of female perspective is due here...
> 
> OP,
> 
> ...


Really good question. We've seen many posts about how men build up resentment after so many rejections and eventually stop desiring their partner. Maybe this has happened to her?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Mr. Nail (Apr 26, 2011)

OK Obviously we need more information. Fortunately you can read everything in the 4 short posts Justamale51 has written here. My take is that her new set of Rules don't make sense with the history. I'm thinking go dark and investigate. This is a new behavior and that leads me to believe something has changed.
MN


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## sisters359 (Apr 9, 2009)

She does not enjoy sex with you and has probably seen it as a chore since LONG before she stopped kissing you. Whether or not she expressed interest in other type of sexual activity before (again, long before), she has given up on anything better in this relationship. She probably has an aversion to you now. 

There really isn't much point in trying to figure out who did or did not try to communicate on the topic of sex--the bottom line is, you are here in this spot now. She is probably very, very vulnerable for having an affair--her sexuality is suppressed, not gone, and just the right combination of attention from and attraction to another man will unleash what she's been penning in. 

Leave or get counseling NOW, and do not be misled by any and all comments about why she's not interested in sex. She probably cannot bring herself to admit--even to herself--how bad things are, and she will fight tooth and nail to preserve the status quo b/c she unconsciously knows how much it will take to reverse this situation, how much you will have to become aware of her true feelings (that she doesn't want you to touch her). 

Take the time to talk with a therapist yourself and see what you can do for yourself and to support any kids, etc., in the event of a split. While you have nothing to lose by trying to remedy the situation, you have everything to lose by mishandling it. Good luck.

ETA: link on sexual aversion: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5047_qa.html


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....

In such a context, what would you do?


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## anonmd (Oct 23, 2014)

If it happens occasionally I suppose that might be ok. If it is fairly frequent turn it down and go do something else. "No thanks, let me know when you are actually available"


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

this is a duplicate thread. Please delete it.

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/mens-clubhouse/256834-today-my-wife-finally-allowed-me-round-sex.html


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

justamale51 said:


> ... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....
> 
> In such a context, what would you do?


Finish in 2 and get back to the game!


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

How did the Aztec do this AM against Duke?

I was busy phucking a chick that actually wants to phuck.


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## MEM2020 (Aug 23, 2009)

M2 is sometimes a bit lacking in raw desire, but she has never refused to kiss me or given me a time limit. 

I'd far prefer to jerk off by myself than into someone's body. 



justamale51 said:


> ... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....
> 
> In such a context, what would you do?


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## CarlaRose (Jul 6, 2014)

I'd ask myself why I am so terrible in bed that my wife can't stand to have to tolerate it.
There is something going on or NOT going on either in bed or in your daily life together.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

First thing I would do (and did)--stop viewing sex as something she "allows" me to do.


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## SpinDaddy (Nov 12, 2012)

Do your business, slap her on the arse, throw her a $20 and follow that up with some appropriate terminology for what is going on here.


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## flyer (Jun 23, 2014)

Masturbate in front of her. When you cum, call out a girl's name. Tell your wife you were fantisizing about this girl.


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## askari (Jun 21, 2012)

Pity sex/duty sex or a wank?

I'd rather wank.


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## AriYarjan (Mar 21, 2015)

There is almost certainly more to this than we know here. Why is she so reluctant to have proper sex with you? LD or another man?


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## moco82 (Jul 16, 2012)

Itemize an invoice which she is paying with this no-frills service. Prorated mortgage payment, utilities, yard work, etc. Point out the unacceptable price/value ratio. Dial a divorce lawyer.


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## jacko jack (Feb 19, 2015)

Dear justamale51

I thought up until a couple of weeks ago, that I was the only one going through this, I think like Askari, I rather have a wank. Unfortunately Right hand gets jealous of left hand and vice versa, leads to a terrible cat fight, it is hard to keep them apart.
Seriously though have you found out why she does not want to indulge in intimacy, mine looks like it is due to sexual abuse in her teens.


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## Young at Heart (Jan 6, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> ... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....
> 
> In such a context, what would you do?


I had something like that happen to me once during the worst part of my SSM. My W told me she had a early morning business meeting and she was rolling over and going to sleep in 5 minutes, so I had better be quick after we had started having one of those rare sex encounters that happened ever couple months. 

I pulled out, looked at her and told her that I deserved better than that. That was the night I decided that I really did deserve a loving relationship with a woman that cared about me. Soon afterwards, I started reading relationship books and changing myself, loosing weight, getting in shape, participating in sports I gave up decades earlier. 

My advice is to start by reading Glover's No More Mr. Nice Guy, if you haven't. The start working on Getting a Life and become a more integrated, interesting man. Ultimately, we went to a sex therapist who really understood my wife and why she was rejecting me. That sex therapist sat my wife down in couples therapy and pointed out to my wife, her own self interest in why my wife should want a happy husband as opposed to an ex-husband who will divorce her.

The sex therapist also told me that my wife likes to play the rebelious adolecent as a way of seeing if I will assume the mature parenting role in our relationship. She suggested that my wife wants a strong man, who will not play her games. 

Good luck to you.


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## Holdingontoit (Mar 7, 2012)

Get No More Mr. Nice Guy. Implement the system for 6 months. If you are not getting lots of enthusiastic sex by then, file for divorce and never look back.


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## DawnD (Sep 23, 2009)

I wonder why OP didn't mention that he was previously the low drive spouse in this thread. You turned her down for years and now that YOU want it she should just hop to. It doesn't work that way. Years of rejecting her? You need to resolve those issues.


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## jb02157 (Apr 16, 2014)

Time to start planning an exist strategy


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Young at Heart said:


> I had something like that happen to me once during the worst part of my SSM. My W told me she had a early morning business meeting and she was rolling over and going to sleep in 5 minutes, so I had better be quick after we had started having one of those rare sex encounters that happened ever couple months.
> 
> I pulled out, looked at her and told her that I deserved better than that. That was the night I decided that I really did deserve a loving relationship with a woman that cared about me. Soon afterwards, I started reading relationship books and changing myself, loosing weight, getting in shape, participating in sports I gave up decades earlier.
> 
> ...


I loathe when people try to play games like this. I am so lucky that I ended up with a woman that prefers open and honest communication instead of playing games. On second thought, luck had nothing to do with it. In reality if I was dating a games player I'd give her a small window to stop the $hit. If she continued to play the games, then I would have dropped her ass. 

If more people would take the time to use dating for what it really is - a time to figure out who you want to marry - I believe marriage would be much simpler. 

\rant.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

Saw this comment by you in another thread.



> Strange (?) but true: what is easy to come by, is always under-valued.
> 
> My partner would chase me around for sex, beg and plead for it. I would treat that like a pain, a chore.
> 
> By our 30s, the boot was on the other foot. I wanted sex more than she did. And I still feel very deprived!


Knowing this added info, I'd say you are reaping what you sowed. She built up enough resentment that she is now treating sex as the chore you used to treat it as early in your marriage. Inevitably, we are treated in the same way we treat others. 

IMHO, the NMMNG, MMSLP and books like this will not be your answer in this situation. You need to tackle the resentment she has built over years of training - by you.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

DawnD said:


> I wonder why OP didn't mention that he was previously the low drive spouse in this thread. You turned her down for years and now that YOU want it she should just hop to. It doesn't work that way. Years of rejecting her? You need to resolve those issues.


It's been mentioned a couple of times on the thread and the guys have conveniently ignored it.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's been mentioned a couple of times on the thread and the guys have conveniently ignored it.


That's because, to some, they whys behind a woman refusing to have sex with her husband are irrelevant. Doesn't really matter if she was neglected and ignored for years on end.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> That's because, to some, they whys behind a woman refusing to have sex with her husband are irrelevant. Doesn't really matter if she was neglected and ignored for years on end.


Yep, pretty much.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

anonmd said:


> If it happens occasionally I suppose that might be ok. If it is fairly frequent turn it down and go do something else. "No thanks, let me know when you are actually available"


This is like going on for 16 years. With varying degrees of intensity...


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> Saw this comment by you in another thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's one way of looking at it. I see it differently...

When she wanted sex, I took my vows seriously and NEVER said no.

Couldn't she at least recognise my need for it, at least twice a week? Even plain vanila would be fine...


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

You just feel sooooo cheated!



MEM11363 said:


> M2 is sometimes a bit lacking in raw desire, but she has never refused to kiss me or given me a time limit.
> 
> I'd far prefer to jerk off by myself than into someone's body.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

I like the way women stand up for each other, and assume it's the guy's fault. SOMETHING must be wrong. It doesn't look rational. 

The point is, it is NOT rational 
The female libido and 'the two-year itch' - Macleans.ca




CarlaRose said:


> I'd ask myself why I am so terrible in bed that my wife can't stand to have to tolerate it.
> There is something going on or NOT going on either in bed or in your daily life together.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Okay, suggest a way how I should see it please...

I've not got offered sex for close to a decade-and-half. I need to beg, plead, cajole, demand... after which I will be ... allowed. Sometimes!

Maybe we sexually denied guys should start keeping spreadsheets of responses, excuses and (mostly no show) outcomes.



Fozzy said:


> First thing I would do (and did)--stop viewing sex as something she "allows" me to do.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

That's how I sometimes feel too. But then, a human being does need to touch the skin of another... just to let that oxytoxin flowing.



askari said:


> Pity sex/duty sex or a wank?
> 
> I'd rather wank.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

LD could be one way of seeing it. But talk to any guy married for 4-5 or more years... and you'll see that any excuse is good enough.

The female libido and 'the two-year itch' - Macleans.ca



AriYarjan said:


> There is almost certainly more to this than we know here. Why is she so reluctant to have proper sex with you? LD or another man?


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Not any more. So used to it. Just surprised when she agrees without a fuss, and shows the slightest sign of enjoying sex. (I really try hard to make it pleasurable for both.)

It just eats my soul little by little. Wonder why this is not considered 'cheating'. On one's vows that is!



intheory said:


> You must have such a weird, sick feeling come over you when your _wife_, says something like this to you.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Here's a link which someone shared with me which makes a LOT of sense: The female libido and 'the two-year itch' - Macleans.ca

Try having a relationship with a woman who's not getting sex, is divorced, or fed up of her marriage. She'll enjoy sex as if there's no tomorrow. But that lasts for like 2-3 years at best.



jacko jack said:


> Dear justamale51
> 
> I thought up until a couple of weeks ago, that I was the only one going through this, I think like Askari, I rather have a wank. Unfortunately Right hand gets jealous of left hand and vice versa, leads to a terrible cat fight, it is hard to keep them apart.
> Seriously though have you found out why she does not want to indulge in intimacy, mine looks like it is due to sexual abuse in her teens.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Thanks for sharing. That's insightful. Am sure a number of guys in long-term marriages have such issues; but who would admit it, when it doesn't seem masculine?



Young at Heart said:


> I had something like that happen to me once during the worst part of my SSM. My W told me she had a early morning business meeting and she was rolling over and going to sleep in 5 minutes, so I had better be quick after we had started having one of those rare sex encounters that happened ever couple months.
> 
> I pulled out, looked at her and told her that I deserved better than that. That was the night I decided that I really did deserve a loving relationship with a woman that cared about me. Soon afterwards, I started reading relationship books and changing myself, loosing weight, getting in shape, participating in sports I gave up decades earlier.
> 
> ...


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## Constable Odo (Feb 14, 2015)

Let the Man Bashing Begin!

(again, in yet another thread!)


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

She's just not into you. 

Leave and have at least some hope that you will eventually find someone who is really attracted to you. Or Stay and face a sexless and sterile marriage until you die or she leaves you for good.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> That's one way of looking at it. I see it differently...
> 
> When she wanted sex, *I took my vows seriously and NEVER said no.*
> 
> Couldn't she at least recognise my need for it, at least twice a week? Even plain vanila would be fine...


If you never said no, then why would she have to beg and plead for it? It sounds more like she wore you down and you gave in, but then made such a big production over your "sacrifice" that she built resentment over it. Like I said earlier, you created the mess you have today. Once you recognize it and claim ownership for what you created, then you can move on and work to fix it. 

The ball is in your court.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

You've started the exact same thread in Sex in M forum. I'm putting my reply there.


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## FizzBomb (Dec 31, 2013)

OP has another exact same thread in Mens.

Seeing as how you used to turn her down cold in the past. I think you both would benefit from some relationship counselling. You could both use some advice on how to communicate better.

How would you rate your level of communication with your wife? What does she say about the years of sexual deprivation for her?


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## Coffee Amore (Dec 15, 2011)

Please don't open duplicate threads here. I merged your thread from the Men's Forum and your thread in the SIM forum.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Lila said:


> Hmmm, was it *Melvynman* who shared this article with you? :scratchhead: Sounds like something he'd propose.


No, I picked it up from another forum. And it makes a LOT OF SENSE to me, considering how much men (mostly, but some women too) complain about the lack of sex in their marriages, usually after 3-4 years...


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Coffee Amore said:


> Please don't open duplicate threads here. I merged your thread from the Men's Forum and your thread in the SIM forum.


Okay. Apologies.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

FizzBomb said:


> OP has another exact same thread in Mens.
> 
> Seeing as how you used to turn her down cold in the past. I think you both would benefit from some relationship counselling. You could both use some advice on how to communicate better.
> 
> How would you rate your level of communication with your wife? What does she say about the years of sexual deprivation for her?


I NEVER turned her down ever, in the past.

There was no sexual deprivation by me. (I just didn't enjoy sex terribly, but always gave it when she wanted.)

Our communication (at the non-sexual level) ranges from good to very good. Specially when she's not depriving me sex. It's when I feel deprived of this crucial element that I just can't bring myself to be nice to her.

Wouldn't someone realise how crucial this is for a male?


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> If you never said no, then why would she have to beg and plead for it? It sounds more like she wore you down and you gave in, but then made such a big production over your "sacrifice" that she built resentment over it. Like I said earlier, you created the mess you have today. Once you recognize it and claim ownership for what you created, then you can move on and work to fix it.
> 
> The ball is in your court.


You're missing the point...

In the initial years, it was almost always she who would initiate.

She would suggest, cajole or beg, plead for daily sex (which did leave me a bit feeling drained). But I never said no and didn't withhold.

When I say "beg and plead", I mean the idea that we should have sex daily wasn't mine... but I went along. It was like a two-sentence begging! Not a seven-to-eight day one. I don't see the two as equal.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Constable Odo said:


> Let the Man Bashing Begin!
> 
> (again, in yet another thread!)


More than man-bashing, I see it as a women-can-do-no-wrong approach. An unwillingness to see that the 'weaker sex' might not be all that weak in today's world.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

The problem is that people change along the way. Dating is one thing. Marriage quite another!



Plan 9 from OS said:


> I
> If more people would take the time to use dating for what it really is - a time to figure out who you want to marry - I believe marriage would be much simpler.
> 
> \rant.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> It's been mentioned a couple of times on the thread and the guys have conveniently ignored it.


You're misquoting me. I didn't deny her for years. Just gave it when she wanted. It's just that I didn't enjoy daily sex (feel it was a bit much for my needs).


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> That's because, to some, they whys behind a woman refusing to have sex with her husband are irrelevant. Doesn't really matter if she was neglected and ignored for years on end.


This isn't what happened. You're just adding some spice to the story!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

> Strange (?) but true: what is easy to come by, is always under-valued.
> 
> *My partner would chase me around for sex, beg and plead for it. I would treat that like a pain, a chore.*
> 
> By our 30s, the boot was on the other foot. I wanted sex more than she did. And I still feel very deprived!





justamale51 said:


> That's one way of looking at it. I see it differently...
> 
> When she wanted sex, I took my vows seriously and NEVER said no.
> 
> Couldn't she at least recognise my need for it, at least twice a week? Even plain vanila would be fine...


Even if you always gave in to sex when she wanted it, (which I don't buy for a second) the fact is that you still treated it like a chore, which implies that _she_ was a chore, that her emotional and physical needs were a chore to you. That ISN'T taking your marriage vows seriously. I'm assuming in your vows you said something to the point of promising to love and cherish your wife? Yeah...treating her like a chore is the opposite of that. 

And now you have a wife who is resentful and can't stand being touched by you because you've made her feel undesirable and unimportant. This really is your mess, and choosing to blame your wife instead of owning to your mistakes will only make it worse.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> I NEVER turned her down ever, in the past.
> 
> There was no sexual deprivation by me. (I just didn't enjoy sex terribly, but always gave it when she wanted.)
> 
> ...


Sex is crucial for both genders, not just men. And when a woman feels like her sexual and emotional needs are nothing more than a pain in the @sss to her husband, it causes very deep wounds that are not easy to heal.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> More than man-bashing, I see it as a women-can-do-no-wrong approach. An unwillingness to see that the 'weaker sex' might not be all that weak in today's world.


Oh please. It's nothing of the sort. I don't believe in the consistent denying of sex in marriage unless circumstances arise which make it necessary. However, I also don't believe that sexuality is cut and dry, black and white. The sexual state of a marriage is often a reflection of the emotional state of the marriage, and it's naïve to try and shove the whys of sexual neglect under the rug. Sometimes a spouse's sexual needs are neglected and there is no reason for it. Sometimes it's just a difference in sexual drives and desires. And sometimes it's because of deep emotional wounds that have made the intimacy and vulnerability of sex unbearable for one spouse. 

If you really want your sex life to improve, it would behoove you to consider things from you're wife's point of view. I don't condone her choice to deprive you sexually, but I do wonder why this change if she used to be very HD. Something happened to change her desire for you. You would be smart to try and discover what it is.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> You're misquoting me. I didn't deny her for years. Just gave it when she wanted. It's just that I didn't enjoy daily sex (feel it was a bit much for my needs).


As created2write has pointed out, you didn't deny but did treat it as a chore. You wife stopped feeling desirable and built resentment. We're trying to help you understand what's likely going on so you can address it, but if you simply want to complain and start with the woman can do no wrong stuff that's fine. Good luck getting it figured out.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

OP, has your wife become very private about locking her computer and keeping her phone with her all the time?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

In the last 2 years, how often have you and your wife had sex?

How often do you want it?


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> In the last 2 years, how often have you and your wife had sex?
> 
> How often do you want it?


Maybe 1 per week. Or less.

99.9% of the times initiated by me.

The most hurtful thing is the insults, the excuses, the you-always-want-sex criticisms!

My need (not so much 'want') is about 2.5 times a week.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> OP, has your wife become very private about locking her computer and keeping her phone with her all the time?


Nope. I don't suspect anyone else. She's turned rather sexless over the years.... won't even see it as just a human need.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

lifeistooshort said:


> As created2write has pointed out, you didn't deny but did treat it as a chore. You wife stopped feeling desirable and built resentment. We're trying to help you understand what's likely going on so you can address it, but if you simply want to complain and start with the woman can do no wrong stuff that's fine. Good luck getting it figured out.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Your misreading and/or deliberately twisting my words.

I didn't deny her. It was just her decision to have sex everyday (as a male who needs a gap to keep producing sperm, I found this a bit on the higher side... would have been happy with half that). But I NEVER ever said no!

It would seem too rude a thing to do.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> Even if you always gave in to sex when she wanted it, (which I don't buy for a second) the fact is that you still treated it like a chore, which implies that _she_ was a chore, that her emotional and physical needs were a chore to you. That ISN'T taking your marriage vows seriously. I'm assuming in your vows you said something to the point of promising to love and cherish your wife? Yeah...treating her like a chore is the opposite of that.
> 
> And now you have a wife who is resentful and can't stand being touched by you because you've made her feel undesirable and unimportant. This really is your mess, and choosing to blame your wife instead of owning to your mistakes will only make it worse.


You seem intent on reaching the conclusions you wish!

Do you know what it feels like to be a man and get more sex than you need? It feels draining....

Which is why: chore.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> You seem intent on reaching the conclusions you wish!
> 
> Do you know what it feels like to be a man and get more sex than you need? It feels draining....
> 
> Which is why: chore.


I'm only reaching conclusions based on the information you provide. If you were less defensive, you might see what I'm actually saying, rather than what you think I'm saying. 

How Spouse 1 acts when meeting Spouse 2's needs can greatly effect whether or not Spouse 2's needs were _actually_ met. If you felt that sex was a chore, it may have come across that way to your wife, which may have made her feel that _she_ was the chore. If that's the case, it could explain why her sexual desire has plummeted. No one wants to feel like a chore. 

Rarely does a person's sexual desire, that was once very high, suddenly drop very low for no reason. I doubt very much that you _never once_ said no. If it was taking that much of a toll on you, you would have had to say no to her at some point.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Also read the article before. *puke* Won't read it again. Monogamy isn't what effects a man or woman's sex drive.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> Also read the article before. *puke* Won't read it again. Monogamy isn't what effects a man or woman's sex drive.


Monogamy often leads to a guy giving up on what he did while dating to show that he truly desires his wife. 

"a big part of what triggers female desire is to be desired. "

That part of the article I agree with.


----------



## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Monogamy often leads to a guy giving up on what he did while dating to show that he truly desires his wife.
> 
> "a big part of what triggers female desire is to be desired. "
> 
> That part of the article I agree with.


You can continue to quote selectively in a way that doesn't challenge women to think again... but you're missing the big picture.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> You seem intent on reaching the conclusions you wish!
> 
> Do you know what it feels like to be a man and get more sex than you need? It feels draining....
> 
> Which is why: chore.


You said that you did not like the sex, did not want it and it was a chore... thus lack of desire on your part.

This is right along with what you article said. Your lack of desire killed her desire. Once it died nothing has happened to resurrect it.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

The truth is bitter. Usually!


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh look...a man trying to convince women that he knows the secret to female sexuality. 

Didn't see that one coming.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

elegirl said:


> your lack of desire killed her desire. Once it died nothing has happened to resurrect it.


^this.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> You can continue to quote selectively in a way that doesn't challenge women to think again... but you're missing the big picture.


No I'm not. If a man continues to show true desire for his wife, she will more than likely continue to desire sex with him.

The issue with monogamy is that a lot of men stop showing true desire for their wife. Just wanting sex is not showing desire. It only shows that the guy wants sex... desire/passion is much more deep than just wanting sex.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Created2Write said:


> I'm only saying that the situation you're outlining doesn't make sense. If her sexual frequency was taking that much of a toll on you, surely you said _something_ to her about it? At least I hope you did. As...accommodating at it is to never say no, it's not necessarily healthy.
> 
> Anyway, are you even interested in improving your situation and understanding why your wife has made such a switch? Or do you just want pity?


The choice is not between understanding-on-women's-terms or pity! 

It's time men too stood up for justice and spoke about the unpleasant issues....

Denial of sex in a marriage is the bedrock on which many problems are built.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

The truth is that fires don't burn on their own. They need kindling, air, and they need them on a consistent bases. If no one is there to stoke the fire, or if they are and they stop, it will burn on its own for a time, and then burn out. Once it has burnt out, it needs someone to rekindle the flame. It won't spontaneously ignite on its own. 

The same is true for sexual desire.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

Didn't she give you the green light to have extra marital sex? If so, then it shows she doesn't give a rat's asset about you anymore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> The truth is bitter. Usually!


Yes, apparently you are having trouble with the truth. 

You see, the studies are carried out to figure out how women feel, think and behave. How do they do that? they ask women.

We women here are telling you the same things we would tell the researcher if they had bothered to ask the question.

I know what kills a woman's desire, why? Because I've had my desired killed before and I know why. 

My sex drive did not go away. My desire to have sex with an individual stopped showing any desire killed the desire for that one individual.

Buy hey... don't listen to women. What do we know about how women (ourselves) think and feel?

The truth is apparently bitter as you are having a problem accepting it.

If my husband did not enjoy sex with me and found it a chore.. it would kill my desire to have sex with him. That's something I know as a fact.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> The choice is not between understanding-on-women's-terms or pity!


Since your wife is a woman, you should be open to understanding her unique sexuality. I get that your resentful of her lack of desire, but something _caused_ that sudden change. If you learn what it is, you may be able to reignite your wife's sexual passion.



> It's time men too stood up for justice and spoke about the unpleasant issues....


.......Ok?



> Denial of sex in a marriage is the bedrock on which many problems are built.


I agree. Denial of sex can also be the _result_ of other marital problems, not just the cause. If your wife _was_ very HD and now isn't, then that means there's been some cause. It would be smart to get to the bottom of what lowered her sexual desire. Otherwise, nothing will come of it but more resentment and rejection.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> The choice is not between understanding-on-women's-terms or pity!
> 
> It's time men too stood up for justice and spoke about the unpleasant issues....
> 
> Denial of sex in a marriage is the bedrock on which many problems are built.


Yep, and men deny sex as much as women do.

The sex-starved marriage | Michele Weiner-Davis | TEDxCU 

The Sex-Starved Marriage: Boosting Your Marriage Libido: A Couple's Guide

Why Men Stop Having Sex: Men, the Phenomenon of Sexless Relationships, and What You Can Do About It

The Sex-Starved Wife: What to Do When He's Lost Desire


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

EleGirl said:


> Yep, and men deny sex as much as women do.
> 
> The sex-starved marriage | Michele Weiner-Davis | TEDxCU
> 
> ...


That's true. Women speak a different language when they start feeling deprived of sex... poetic justice that it's happening increasingly today!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Dogbert said:


> Didn't she give you the green light to have extra marital sex? If so, then it shows she doesn't give a rat's asset about you anymore.


I suspect the "permission" won't be the same if I invest in someone else emotionally! Then it could even become a grounds for divorce... what proof do I have apart from my word when I attempted to approach -- at the kitchen counter, no less -- her one night after many days of being deprived sex?

Women, to me, seem to fail to realise how important sex can be in the relationships of a man...


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

....What language do you think we speak? Your perception of women is very....odd. Like we aren't human, or something.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> You can continue to quote selectively in a way that doesn't challenge women to think again... but you're missing the big picture.



And you've demonstrated an inability to think beyond your narrow view of simply not saying no. No matter what anyone tries to say you can't seem to consider anything else. I get that you didn't want sex every day. I get it. I don't want it every day either, it would be exhausting. We're trying to help you understand your wife's perspective so that you may better approach your current issues with her. You thought you were honoring the marriage by not saying no, but she received your unenthusiastic participation as rejection. Perhaps you didn't mean it this way but that'show it came across. 

Sure, you can demand she simply put out, and judging from your inability to consider other viewpoints that might be all you require.....a warm body. If that's how you feel just get divorced now and let your wife find someone that really desires her and wants to be close to her, and you can try find someone that is content to put out once in a while. 

Just talking to you here is exhausting, I can only imagine how your wife feels.


What a sad way to live. 

Try considering another point of view for once.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> You seem intent on reaching the conclusions you wish!
> 
> Do you know what it feels like to be a man and get more sex than you need? It feels draining....
> 
> Which is why: chore.


Her sex drive didn't drop suddenly... It was very textbookish!

The you-have-more-sex-in-your-first-year-than-your-entire-married-life kind of thing. Followed then by 3-4 years of still hot sex, but complaints about all kinds of issues.

Followed by a desperation to have a child.

Followed by no-sex-during-pregnancy-as-something-could-happen-to-the-baby.

Followed by kicking-off-hubby-from-the-bed-as-the-baby-wakes-up-anytime.

And then a drastic loss of interest in sex, after the child, together with a growing resentment... and a belief that I-don't-care-if-you-need-sex-and-aren't-getting-it-from-meism!


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> That's true. Women speak a different language when they start feeling deprived of sex... poetic justice that it's happening increasingly today!


No, men choosing to be sexless in marriage is not a new thing. It's always been this way.

The difference is that men love talking about how sexless their marriage is. If a man is in a marriage in which his wife does not want sex, then everyone has sympathy for him and blame her.

Women have in the past not spoken up about it because we are fed a line of bull that says that all men want unending sex all the time, so obviously it's our fault if a man does not want sex with us, their wife.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

*sigh* And more hokum about sex just not being important to women. 

I'm very HD. I want it every day, usually more than once a day. I'm lucky in that my husband and I are very equally matched in desire. I have been this way since I became sexually active. But, my sexual desire isn't 100% constant. It waxes and wanes due to circumstances. I had two miscarriages last year that caused a drastic decrease in my sexual desire. It has, since then, grown back almost to what it was when DH and I first married. 

I give you this example as, hopefully, a better illustration of what sexual desire is. It does not always stay the same. It changes as life brings its trials and burdens. 

You really only sound like you want a pity party, not like you actually want your wife to be more sexual. My guess is that you have the key to increasing her desire in your hand, you're just choosing not use it.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> I suspect the "permission" won't be the same if I invest in someone else emotionally! Then it could even become a grounds for divorce... what proof do I have apart from my word when I attempted to approach -- at the kitchen counter, no less -- her one night after many days of being deprived sex?
> 
> Women, to me, seem to fail to realise how important sex can be in the relationships of a man...


You have no idea what women thing and/or know.

You only know what is going on between you and your wife.

Once you realize that you do not speak for all women and nor does your wife represent all women, you will be closer to fixing your marriage.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

justamale51 said:


> That's true. Women speak a different language when they start feeling deprived of sex... poetic justice that it's happening increasingly today!


It's not happening more frequently today, it's just being talked about more.

And it's not justice--poetic or otherwise.

Being deprived is painful for any individual, of any gender. Don't take out your resentment for your wife on 50% of humanity.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> Her sex drive didn't drop suddenly... It was very textbookish!
> 
> The you-have-more-sex-in-your-first-year-than-your-entire-married-life kind of thing. Followed then by 3-4 years of still hot sex, but complaints about all kinds of issues.


Did you listen to her complaints? Were these issues ever addressed?



> Followed by a desperation to have a child.
> 
> Followed by no-sex-during-pregnancy-as-something-could-happen-to-the-baby.
> 
> ...


See, this info would have been greatly useful on page one.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Created2Write said:


> ....What language do you think we speak? Your perception of women is very....odd. Like we aren't human, or something.


He seems to think that now, suddenly, some men are starting to withhold sex from their wives. So now suddenly some women are finally seeing what it's like to be refused sex. So our different language is that instead of withhold we are now complaining.

Further he thinks it justice that men should withhold sex.

So his wife withholds sex or does not want it with him as much as he wants sex.

But for some reason that justifies some man withhold sex form a wife who wants a healthy sex life???

:scratchhead:



Created2Write said:


> .... Your perception of women is very....odd. Like we aren't human, or something.


It's like he thinks all women are his wife... you know like aspen trees.. where an entire aspen forest is really one large plant that spouts up trees from interconnected roots???? :scratchhead:


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> He seems to think that now, suddenly, some men are starting to withhold sex from their wives. So now suddenly some women are finally seeing what it's like to be refused sex. So our different language is that instead of withhold we are now complaining.
> 
> Further he thinks it justice that men should withhold sex.
> 
> ...


Yeah. 

Justamale, there _are_ solutions to your situation. But you have to be willing to see beyond your own perspective to make them work. I don't condone or agree with your wife's decision to reject you sexually. But nor do I agree with your decision to "give" her sex every time she wanted it. That wasn't healthy for you, and I think may have been the beginning of your resentment, which has in turn fuelled hers. 

If it was true that women don't understand the importance of sex, your wife would never have been HD.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

The guy is frustrated. Cut him some slack. He doesn't know why his wife doesn't want him and is searching for answers. And then the women's defense league jumps up and beats the sh-t out of him for offering a theory they don't like.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Actually this "woman's defense league" has been _trying_ to offer advice to _HIS_ benefit, in case you hadn't noticed. And if he were REALLY looking for answers, he'd listen to those attempting to give him some.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Anon1111 said:


> The guy is frustrated. Cut him some slack. He doesn't know why his wife doesn't want him and is searching for answers. And then the women's defense league jumps up and beats the sh-t out of him for offering a theory they don't like.


It's weird that two people can read a thread and see two different things. I don't think he's searching for answers because when posters try to explain why women no longer want sex with their husband he argues back instead of asking questions. I think he just wants to vent and that's fine but he should say it.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

To be honest, I think the men here don't really want to hear from women on the sexless marriage thread. I've tried to explain why my marriage's sex life suffered and why it's so much better now but it gets ignored or dismissed, so I've quit. Personally I think the women here should stop posting on these threads because the men think they know better or they just want to have a pity party.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> The choice is not between understanding-on-women's-terms or pity!


Yes, because obviously doing things that meet your wife's needs, that would stoke her desire is a waste of your time. To hell with that. She married you so now she should just be giving you sex when you want it because she owes it to you. :scratchhead:


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I think it is very frustrating to get advice from people who have no idea how it feels to be in your situation and then criticize you when you don't accept their advice.

Not directed at anyone in particular, but if you have not been the HD one in a sexless marriage then you really have no idea what you are talking about in these threads.


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## lifeistooshort (Mar 17, 2013)

soccermom2three said:


> To be honest, I think the men here don't really want to hear from women on the sexless marriage thread. I've tried to explain why my marriage's sex life suffered and why it's so much better now but it gets ignored or dismissed, so I've quit. Personally I think the women here should stop posting on these threads because the men think they know better or they just want to have a pity party.


Yep, I agree. Next time I have a problem with my hb I'll solicit advice from women and argue with any and all male perspectives, because there's way they could offer anything of value in dealing with my hb. Men just don't get it. 

The women will back me up and tell me that whatever he's doing is a sign he doesn't care, no matter how I might have contributed, and I should just divorce him. 

I'm outta here.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> To be honest, I think the men here don't really want to hear from women on the sexless marriage thread. I've tried to explain why my marriage's sex life suffered and why it's so much better now but it gets ignored or dismissed, so I've quit. Personally I think the women here should stop posting on these threads because the men think they know better or they just want to have a pity party.



I think most men in low sex marriages resent being told by hd women how they're doing it wrong. They generally have better reactions to former or relatively ld women who have "seen the light" like Getting it, SA and Lyris.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

I don't think it is a male/female thing.

I think it is a knowing what you're talking about vs. not knowing thing.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> I think it is very frustrating to get advice from people who have no idea how it feels to be in your situation and then criticize you when you don't accept their advice.
> 
> Not directed at anyone in particular, but if you have not been the HD one in a sexless marriage then you really have no idea what you are talking about in these threads.


Why do you assume that the women giving advice here have no idea how he feels? There are a good number of women who have been in exactly the same place he is. I'm one of them.

I've also been in the position where my desire for sex was completely shut down. There are other women posting on this thread with similar experiences.. on one side, the other, or both.

I've been on both sides of this. But I guess my experience and advice is useless to him????? why is that?????


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

EleGirl said:


> Why do you assume that the women giving advice here have no idea how he feels? There are a good number of women who have been in exactly the same place he is. I'm one of them.
> 
> I've also been in the position where my desire for sex was completely shut down. There are other women posting on this thread with similar experiences.. on one side, the other, or both.
> 
> I've been on both sides of this. But I guess my experience and advice is useless to him????? why is that?????


^^^This. 

If these men took the time to really listen, they might find some truth in what's being said.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think most men in low sex marriages resent being told by hd women how they're doing it wrong. They generally have better reactions to former or relatively ld women who have "seen the light" like Getting it, SA and Lyris.


Keep in mind that HD women who still desire sex with their husbands can share why and how they have maintained that HD and high desire. 

Some have shared with him that the way he treated his wife sexually in the early stages of their marriage would be a turn off to them as well. 

I'm HD. Without some extraordinary measures taken to heal the marriage, I would not want sex with a husband who spent the first few years of our marriage not liking sex with me and doing it only as a chore.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> I don't think it is a male/female thing.
> 
> I think it is a knowing what you're talking about vs. not knowing thing.


Yes and none of us have a clue? me? SoccerMom.. now clue :scratchhead:


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

These men. They're all doing it wrong. If only they would listen to ME.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> Why do you assume that the women giving advice here have no idea how he feels? There are a good number of women who have been in exactly the same place he is. I'm one of them.
> 
> I've also been in the position where my desire for sex was completely shut down. There are other women posting on this thread with similar experiences.. on one side, the other, or both.
> 
> I've been on both sides of this. But I guess my experience and advice is useless to him????? why is that?????


If you've got relevant experience then this wasn't directed at you.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

If he wants to know why his _wife's_ sexual desire has changed, he should be looking to his wife first, and then other _women_ to potentially find the answer. Or, at least, gain perspective. Because the general advice given by men in this forum to men in the OP's situation is usually filled with nothing but resentment, bitterness, and hatred toward women as a whole. Not helpful to fixing problems. A woman doesn't have to have lived his exactly situation to offer her own perspective.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> These men. They're all doing it wrong. If only they would listen to US.


Fixed it for you. One person can offer a little perspective, but a collective of women can offer a lot more if given the chance. Especially those of us who are HD.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> If you've got relevant experience then this wasn't directed at you.


He's telling me I'm full of bunk.


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## Dogbert (Jan 10, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> I suspect the "permission" won't be the same if I invest in someone else emotionally! Then it could even become a grounds for divorce... what proof do I have apart from my word when I attempted to approach -- at the kitchen counter, no less -- her one night after many days of being deprived sex?


Just like ED is a possible sign of cardiovascular disease, a sexless marriage MAY be a sign of a dying marriage. Since only you have all the information regarding your marriage, how accurate would it be to say that your marriage is dying?



> Women, to me, seem to fail to realise how important sex can be in the relationships of a man...


Just like us men, women are a varied bunch. Some don't give a crap about sex but many do. Painting them all as being the same, is simply not true.

You feel frustrated by your choices and for that I am sorry but sadly sometimes life deals us a bad hand and its up to us to either play it or fold.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51,

Since we women have no clue how women think, feel, function, etc... perhaps you will take some good advice from a man.....



The question of the ages: How can a husband receive the sex
he needs in marriage?


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

Created2Write said:


> If these men took the time to really listen, they might find some truth in what's being said.


Indeed. That being the case, there are a lot (and I mean a lot....I'm one of them) that have extremely fragile egos and it is often very difficult to swallow a bitter pill. It would mean exposing oneself (read:vulnerable)...A lot of men don't do "vulnerable" very well.

I mean, hell, look around here...I'm floored how often I see the ol "You need to man up and read the MMSLP."...I mean...ferrealz? Jeez.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I'm HD. Without some extraordinary measures taken to heal the marriage, I would not want sex with a husband who spent the first few years of our marriage not liking sex with me and doing it only as a chore.


Yes, the OP doesn't want to take even partial ownership for the resentment the wife may have for being given duty sex. He's just arguing.

I've seen the exact thread here but with the genders reserved. She gave only duty sex at the beginning of marriage, years later now she wants more sex. The men post that because of her past actions her husband is resentful. Why aren't you guys posting the same thing here?


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

LMAO

Is this a team sport? Who am I supposed to be speaking for? All men? Let me get on the phone to the Male President-- not sure if I have the proper clearance.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

It's directed at me, the twenty-something HD woman with no kids and an active sex life. Because, of course, all of that means that I must have no understanding of sexual desire and what it means to lose it, why it was lost, or how to gain it back once it's lost.  I may not have been in a sexless marriage, I may not have kids, I may not have been married for more than a decade, but I have experience going from being very HD to being very LD, and then back to being HD. I think I have _some_ relevant perspectives to offer.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

MountainRunner said:


> Indeed. That being the case, there are a lot (and I mean a lot....I'm one of them) that have extremely fragile egos and it is often very difficult to swallow a bitter pill. It would mean exposing oneself (read:vulnerable)...A lot of men don't do "vulnerable" very well.
> 
> I mean, hell, look around here...I'm floored how often I see the ol "You need to man up and read the MMSLP."...I mean...ferrealz? Jeez.


In this case I think it really does have more to do with pride than genuinely seeking out relevant advice. But I get your point.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

Why are you being so nasty?

We see many guys at TAM that are sad, angry and hurt because their wives don't have sex with them and it's killing them inside. We feel sorry for these guys or we wouldn't bother posting. We are trying to help them. Give them a female point of view. We take the time type thoughtful posts telling our personal stories and this is how we are treated.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Created2Write said:


> It's directed at me, the twenty-something HD woman with no kids and an active sex life. Because, of course, all of that means that I must have no understanding of sexual desire and what it means to lose it, why it was lost, or how to gain it back once it's lost.  I may not have been in a sexless marriage, I may not have kids, I may not have been married for more than a decade, but I have experience going from being very HD to being very LD, and then back to being HD. I think I have _some_ relevant perspectives to offer.


Yes, if this is your background, you really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure your motivation is good, but you just don't know.

I wouldn't presume to give you advice about what it is like to be a 20 something woman with no kids and an active sex life because I have no idea what that is like.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> Yes, if this is your background, you really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure your motivation is good, but you just don't know.
> 
> I wouldn't presume to give you advice about what it is like to be a 20 something woman with no kids and an active sex life because I have no idea what that is like.


You must have missed the bolded/underlined part of her post.



Created2Write said:


> It's directed at me, the twenty-something HD woman with no kids and an active sex life. Because, of course, all of that means that I must have no understanding of sexual desire and what it means to lose it, why it was lost, or how to gain it back once it's lost.  I may not have been in a sexless marriage, I may not have kids, I may not have been married for more than a decade, *but I have experience going from being very HD to being very LD, and then back to being HD.* I think I have _some_ relevant perspectives to offer.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think most men in low sex marriages resent being told by hd women how they're doing it wrong. They generally have better reactions to former or relatively ld women who have "seen the light" like Getting it, SA and Lyris.


I have a feeling I know why you see their stories as credible as opposed to others but that's all I'm going to say about that.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

OK, I'm wrong. Carry on.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

Anon1111 said:


> Yes, if this is your background, you really have no idea what you are talking about. I'm sure your motivation is good, but you just don't know.
> 
> I wouldn't presume to give you advice about what it is like to be a 20 something woman with no kids and an active sex life because I have no idea what that is like.


No, but I'm sure you could offer me insight to a males perspective on why my husband has trouble remembering to meet my emotional needs. I'm sure you could offer insight from a male's perspective on why my husband has a fascination with anal sex, or why he has trouble with the way I like to do things, etc. You don't have to have walked in my shoes to offer a relevant point of view. And were I to ask those questions, and receive answers from you, I would be happy to listen and consider them. 

I've found many helpful tips and answers from some of the most unlikely of posters on this forum. And hey, if you don't like what I have to say, feel free to put me on ignore. But if I feel that I may have a relevant perspective as a woman who likes sex, in a discussion about a woman who used to like sex and doesn't any longer, I'm gonna offer my opinion.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

You're putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting me. I just said that I resent the fact I never ever said no to sex when she asked (even if it wasn't always pleasurable), but she does it all the time.... 



EleGirl said:


> Keep in mind that HD women who still desire sex with their husbands can share why and how they have maintained that HD and high desire.
> 
> Some have shared with him that the way he treated his wife sexually in the early stages of their marriage would be a turn off to them as well.
> 
> I'm HD. Without some extraordinary measures taken to heal the marriage, I would not want sex with a husband who spent the first few years of our marriage not liking sex with me and doing it only as a chore.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Sorry, but a lot of you women remind me of my wife... they're great when the going is good 



Created2Write said:


> If he wants to know why his _wife's_ sexual desire has changed, he should be looking to his wife first, and then other _women_ to potentially find the answer. Or, at least, gain perspective. Because the general advice given by men in this forum to men in the OP's situation is usually filled with nothing but resentment, bitterness, and hatred toward women as a whole. Not helpful to fixing problems. A woman doesn't have to have lived his exactly situation to offer her own perspective.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> You're putting words in my mouth and misinterpreting me. I just said that I resent the fact I never ever said no to sex when she asked (even if it wasn't always pleasurable), but she does it all the time....


I read what you wrote. 

Did you read the link I posted above?


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Thanks for saying that, specially the "killing them inside" bit. That's how I feel. 

Somehow I didn't get the same vibe when reading your earlier post which said: "Yes, the OP doesn't want to take even partial ownership for the resentment the wife may have for being given duty sex. He's just arguing." 



soccermom2three said:


> Why are you being so nasty?
> 
> We see many guys at TAM that are sad, angry and hurt because their wives don't have sex with them and it's killing them inside. We feel sorry for these guys or we wouldn't bother posting. We are trying to help them. Give them a female point of view. We take the time type thoughtful posts telling our personal stories and this is how we are treated.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

justamale51 said:


> Thanks for saying that, specially the "killing them inside" bit. That's how I feel.
> 
> Somehow I didn't get the same vibe when reading your earlier post which said: "Yes, the OP doesn't want to take even partial ownership for the resentment the wife may have for being given duty sex. He's just arguing."


You are just arguing. This thread is going nowhere. You have yet to do anything but tell us that we have no clue what we are talking about, that you are glad that men withhold sex because it's justice, and that we remind you of your wife.. even when some, if not all, of us are nothing like your wife.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> I have a feeling I know why you see their stories as credible as opposed to others but that's all I'm going to say about that.



Ok :scratchhead:

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. In any case, the word "credible" is yours not mine. If I was going to use a word like that I would have used "relevant". And I think it's obvious why a 40 something woman who was LD and figured out a way to make it work is more relevant than a 20 something who is HD, never had to deal with getting older, being in the same marriage for 20+ years or dealing with kids competing for her attention.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm sorry you think I sound like your wife, justamale. I've _rarely_ denied my husband sex, and when I have it's been for clear, verbalized reasons that my husband understood. Namely depression, anxiety and grief. 

However, if you expect your sexual needs to be met, it's only right that your wife would expect her needs to be met as well. That is what _I_ would consider a "good" marriage, one where both spouses needs are mutually met.


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## Created2Write (Aug 25, 2011)

WorkingOnMe said:


> Ok :scratchhead:
> 
> I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. In any case, the word "credible" is yours not mine. If I was going to use a word like that I would have used "relevant". And I think it's obvious why a 40 something woman who was LD and figured out a way to make it work is more relevant than a 20 something who is HD, never had to deal with getting older, being in the same marriage for 20+ years or dealing with kids competing for her attention.


Like I said, you're more than welcome to put me on ignore. 

I may not have dealt with those things you outlined, but I've had many years where my emotional needs were inconsistently met (something my husband still struggles with), I've had two miscarriages, worked through depression, anxiety, PTSD, suffered from self-hatred and extremely low self-esteem...all of which pretty much eliminated my sexual desire. I've worked through those things, went to counseling for a year to heal and deal with my issues, and have found my way back to the sex drive I had before all of the darkness outlined above. 

Please don't discount my experiences simply because they don't match yours.


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## soccermom2three (Jan 4, 2013)

No, credible works for me.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

soccermom2three said:


> No, credible works for me.


Well there isn't anybody on this thread posting an image of themselves that I don't believe, so they're all equally credible in my eyes.


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## WorkingOnMe (Mar 17, 2012)

Created2Write said:


> Like I said, you're more than welcome to put me on ignore.
> 
> I may not have dealt with those things you outlined, but I've had many years where my emotional needs were inconsistently met (something my husband still struggles with), I've had two miscarriages, worked through depression, anxiety, PTSD, suffered from self-hatred and extremely low self-esteem...all of which pretty much eliminated my sexual desire. I've worked through those things, went to counseling for a year to heal and deal with my issues, and have found my way back to the sex drive I had before all of the darkness outlined above.
> 
> Please don't discount my experiences simply because they don't match yours.


I think you have a lot of valuable experience, and I think it's relevant in a lot of cases. I applaud you for using it to try to help people.


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

I'd just like to hear from some of the guys here: have you experienced your partner (specially someone your married to in a long-haul thing) suddenly lose interest in sex, being unable to understand herself, and making you feel like **** (self-esteemwise)?

If it happened to you, what do/did you see as the cause for that?

The perceived wisdom is to suggest that the guy must be not doing enough. More recent studies however suggest that a woman might lose her interest in sex after a certain years of a relationship, and in that sense, she's not even to 'blame' because she doesn't know how or why it's happening.

For years I've tried to go by the traditional advice: be more loving, give her more, a guy doing house-work is pornography to a woman...

No go. Just doesn't work.

I've noticed the 3-4 year marker as a significant scene changer in our sexual equation, though pretty much nothing else changed then. Apart from familiarity (does it breed contempt?) I was not significant fatter, lazier or worse off... in fact, I may have been better in bed then. In part because of the enhanced ability to see other forms of love-making via the Net, and also because women tendn to sexually peak in their thirties and it's easier for a guy to help your partner get more orgasms then.

Am so totally at a loss to understand (i) why this happens (ii) why my partner doesn't even wonder how it's affecting me.

How relevant is a HD-LD woman-man relationship relevant to a LD-HD woman-man relationship?

A penny for your thoughts!


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## justamale51 (Mar 20, 2015)

Also is it true that the moment the kids come into the scene, the daddy gets kicked out of the bed?

How did this work in your case, guys?


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

Man in recovering sexless marriage here.

Yes, it was predominantly my fault. I let myself go, was inattentive emotionally, and let my depression drive a lot of my interactions with her. When I accepted that and corrected my behavior, things started getting better. 

We both still carry some scars, and I doubt things will ever be the way they used to be, but I still believe they can be good again.

Also, yes--kids change things. Yes, you will be deprioritized when children arrive. I really don't see a way to escape this. You have to try to ride it out until the kids are older and hope for the best. Eventually your wife will remember who's going to still be in her house when the kids are gone.


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## MountainRunner (Dec 30, 2014)

justamale51 said:


> I'd just like to hear from some of the guys here: have you experienced your partner (specially someone your married to in a long-haul thing) suddenly lose interest in sex, being unable to understand herself, and making you feel like **** (self-esteemwise)?
> 
> If it happened to you, what do/did you see as the cause for that?


Me. It happened to me. My wife's libido went from 120mph to full stop practically overnight when she was post menopausal. In fact, I remember to this day the infamous..."talk" where she flat out told me that she does not have any desire for sex anymore.

I took it as a "I don't desire YOU anymore."....and it took me a long time to realize that my interpretation was completely wrong.

It was like "The Perfect Storm" for us and with me being a histrionic...well...I knew how to "fix" that....and I did it in spades by almost destroying my marriage...for all the wrong reasons.


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## Anon1111 (May 29, 2013)

Justamale- it happened to me. 

Short answer is that it may be something you're doing or not doing or it may be just her.

I do believe there is some truth to the things you are posting about a natural loss of desire for women in long term relationships, however many couples manage to keep it going despite having the same biology.

My best advice is to take a hard look at yourself first, fix whatever is lacking and then if she still is not interest after a reasonable period of time, leave.


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## Married but Happy (Aug 13, 2013)

There are so many possible reasons a woman loses her libido, or at least her interest in her mate. The obvious ones are affairs, hormone issues, resentment over mate's behaviors (including emotional neglect or letting oneself go to pot), and giving other things higher priority (usually young children, but even then the spouse should have next highest priority). Sometimes there are multiple issues.

If you can identify them, you can try to work on them - but many will require her cooperation (or perhaps MC or IC for her or you or both, depending on the issues and causes). If you don't get that, or get active resistance, IMO you should simply leave. Whatever the cause, in most cases it's a good idea to set your own mental time frame to try to reach a solution, and if none is achieved, leave. If leaving isn't really possible or desirable for some reason (and most reasons are false, IMO), then open the relationship. (Note: if she takes advantage of such an agreement, then her issue is with you, and you should - once again IMO - leave.) Your only other alternative is to cheat, but of course that's makes you the villain in everyone's eyes, is likely to be a temporary solution, and if discovered may well lead to my first suggestion: leave (or be left).

And to answer one of your questions, IMO there is a usually a big difference in approaches for HD-LD men-women than vice versa. The reasons seem to be largely the same: resentments, hormones, loss of attraction, etc.


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## T&T (Nov 16, 2012)

justamale51 said:


> I'd just like to hear from some of the guys here: have you experienced your partner (specially someone your married to in a long-haul thing) suddenly lose interest in sex, being unable to understand herself, and making you feel like **** (self-esteemwise)?
> 
> If it happened to you, what do/did you see as the cause for that?
> 
> The perceived wisdom is to suggest that the guy must be not doing enough.


My wife hated me at one point (excessive drinking) No way was she going to F me. Of course, I was oblivious as to why because my mind was polluted...

I stopped and 4 years later she was still harbouring resentment towards me, hurt feelings and zero trust.

What did I do? I came to TAM and lurked for ages reading posts about sexless marriages. I paid very close attention to what the *LADIES* were saying and then put my plans into action. Who would know better, right?

3 years later we're happier than two pigs in sh!t. We've never been happier! It can be done if BOTH partners are willing to work at it.


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## Sakmeht (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm a wife that was pretty sexual with my husband in the beginning (chemistry) and then it waned as the years progressed. I knew how important sex was to him and since I knew how unhappy and unloved he was with once a week sex I started edging. I do three sessions a day of 5 to 10 edges and it keeps me in a state of arousal. Now, if he comes home and tweaks my tit I'm actually wanting more! It feels good, I'm horny and yes, let's go upstairs! Before, my libido was so low I could go months without feeling the urge for sex or orgasms. 

Our sex life and our relationship has improved dramatically due to orgasm tease and denial (edging) and I owe it all to a kinky friend of mind who knew I wouldn't go running for the hills when she suggested I play with myself. lol 

Good luck. Not sure your wife would go for it based on how she's acting in bed, but maybe this will help someone else? And of course, having a wife willing to entertain the idea might be a rare thing.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

WorkingOnMe said:


> I think most men in low sex marriages resent being told by hd women how they're doing it wrong. They generally have better reactions to former or relatively ld women who have "seen the light" like Getting it, SA and Lyris.


What we may want to hear and what might actually be useful are not always the same. How does it help someone to know that someone else saw the light as it were. How does that help the non poster to see the light?


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

OP was banned, so no response will be coming from him.


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## Decorum (Sep 7, 2012)

Plan 9 from OS said:


> OP was banned, so no response will be coming from him.


Thanks, I still cant let this go.



justamale51 said:


> For years I've tried to go by the traditional advice: be more loving, give her more, a guy doing house-work is pornography to a woman...
> 
> No go. Just doesn't work.


I think most people here ( I know I am) would tell you that you could not be more wrong about this. You probably made it worse.

Its a matter of respect and connection.

You have to be, leader, philosopher, friend, lover, and King in the right amount and at the right times.

Yep like trying to land on an air craft carrier in pitching waves, be a better man do what you can and don't take responsibility for her issues.

If your wife is going through something then it's a matter of understanding, time and her personal makeup, there is no guarantee how it will turn out.

If its hot outside and the bowel is empty the dog is going to be thirsty, if the dog is dead don't bother filling the bowel, just go get your shovel.


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## icemans.insights (May 5, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> Apart from familiarity (does it breed contempt?)


I don't there's any doubt that familiarity breeds contempt within the marriage. Evidenced by the number of males who post about unlimited oral sex that was part of the deal before the marriage, but which often dwindles to nothing shortly after the marriage. 

I'm not sure why a large percentage of women are built to think this is okay. Do they just assume we no longer want what we had during the honeymoon phase? Or perhaps they just don't care after they land their victim. 

Men of course assume what's happening before the marriage will continue long after the vows are said. Note to all men. Know this going in. 

Finding a woman with unlimited sex drive is pretty rare, but if she's out there, she's a commodity just about all men are looking for in a monogamous relationship.


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## leon2100 (May 13, 2015)

During those 7 -8 days did she quit: cooking, cleaning the house, doing the laundry, making the bed, picking up clothes on the floor, taking care of the kids, sending birthday cards to your family, grocery shopping, picking up the cleaning, mowing the lawn, paying the bills, going to PTA meetings, buying your underwear, shopping for the kids, cleaning the gutters, painting the bedrooms, washing the dishes, changing the sheets, washing the windows, taking out the garbage, cleaning the shower, smelling her husband's beer breath, keeping her husband's food warm while he's coming home late from work,home, etc. If so, then you really have a problem!!


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

* Had I been either drinking or in a royally pissed-off frame of mind, just for sheer shock value, I'd probably have just pulled "my Johnson" out right then and there, and started masturbating right in front of her, telling her that my right hand had been so much more of a loyal friend to me than she had ever been a wife!*


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

What's the point in complaining? You need to find some way to solve it...

What does OP thing would work?


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## brownmale (Apr 20, 2015)

justamale51 said:


> ... it was after a 7-8 days of starvation. Her deadline for me to "finish"? Five minutes... No kissing (been that way for years). No touching her breasts....
> 
> In such a context, what would you do?


The word "allowed" doesn't suggest the sexual connect is good...


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