# What did she do and what should I do about it?



## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

This is my first post. I'm sure there have been other similar threads about this, but I'm worried about what might have happened when my wife went out for girls night out over the last few months. We have been married eight years and have two little kids. I work long hours and she works part time. So several months ago she said she was depressed about getting older (we are in our 30's) and said she loves me but was restless with the marriage (her words). Then several weeks later she said she wanted to start going out with girlfriends to a country western dance bar for girls nights out -- twice a week every week. I didn't mind her going out once in a while but wasnt sure about two nights a week or anything that often. She asked me to be patient with her and said that she needed to do this and to let her go. We have always trusted each other and been good together so I said OK. I asked if she ever wanted me to go and she said I wouldnt like the place. So this went on, every week, for a few months. Always on weeknights. I told her I didn't like the idea of guys slow dancing and hitting on her at the bar, but she said she would handle it. She said she always came home to me, which is true. The same group of girls also had a couple of weekends out of town together and that didn't bother me. But then one afternoon when I was home her phone rang while she was outside so I answered it, and it was a guy asking for her. They didn't talk long. She was polite and friendly. Then when she hung up, she had this big "Oh sh--" look on her face. I asked who he was and she said a friend of the girl who organized the girls nights out and he asked her if she wanted to go meet him for coffee (that day) but she said no. Later I asked her how long these beer joint nights were gonna continue. Soon after that she stopped going out. She said she was "getting too into it." 

She didn't stay out super late but was usually gone two or three hours. It does seem fishy that all of the girls would want to go out that often (some are single/divorced and some are married) and I wonder if some of those nights she was meeting someone. Also, after a few months of this, she started doing something new in bed with me that she never did before. She initiated it. I asked where she learned that and she was vague, said she didn't know just wanted to try it. (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to describe it more then that.) 

Anyway, it's over and we are OK but I can't help but wonder and I worry it could happen again. I think maybe she realized she needed to quit the whole thing before she got in too deep. Or maybe she did get in too deep and thought I would figure it out. I am worried she got too tempted and gave in after being hit on too many times.

I am working on letting it go and moving on. I can try to forgive her if she slept with someone or almost did. But what do you guys think really happened? I really want to know. I can take it. I hate to ask her too much about it now that it's over and we're doing OK because it could make things worse. But we need to trust each other again. And what can I do to avoid a repeat of this? What happened?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Did you go out with your friends at all during this time?

Since you did nothing to confirm one way or the other, I think you need to assume that she did not cross the line and came to conclusion that the partying was not a good idea. 

Now if some info comes up along the line, then you deal with it when it does.

I think that the two of you would do well in restructuring your marriage. She might not realize it, but you are at a very bad place. You need to talk to her and tell her your concerns. Insisting on marriage counseling would be a good idea.

There are two books that I think would help the two of you figure out how to rebuild your marriage: "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs".


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Are any of these gf's of hers also good friends of yours?

If they are only casual acquaintances or unknown to you, she really and truly had free reign to do what she wanted and know you were never going to find out.

You say she never stayed out til the early morning hours...that is a definite positive if you are sure she was really at the club with friends every night she said she was going out. 

I would be more concerned about the weekend trips away....I'm a little unclear on if your W went on these or just the other girls, but I'm assuming that she went since you did bring them up.

The weekends combined with this OM calling your house is a real red flag.....especially when combined with the fact that the look on her face disturbed you....you know her better than anyone...if her reaction disturbed you, that is a real cause for concern.

If you are really good friends yourself with any of these girls, I would call and ask them who the hell this guy was that called your W.

If you are friends with any of their H's, call up these guys and find out about this OM.

If she responds with anger or upset after you try to find out more about him, I would take that as another red-flag.

After all, I would ask her at that point how she would be handling some strange woman calling you up at the house, and you just saying, "Oh...she's some gal that is around when me and my buddies hang out."

If she says anything other than that she would be interested to find out more about who this woman really was, she is lying through her teeth.

I see a lot of concerns here.

After you find out more about OM, and how much she has been talking to him (check phone records ASAP), it is time to sit her down and get to the bottom of what she was up to IMO.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I find it interesting that all she did was go out partying and clubbing, yet you chose to post your story in "Coping with infidelity". 

Get on facebook. The single/divorced ones posted all the pictures you need to see. The reasons she went out to meat markets twice a week will become very clear. 

There were a lot of men you will never know about. At least one even got her number. She didn't screw them all, but these nights out were all about partying with men.

It is too bad you didn't spy when you could. Another "I trust my wife when she dresses like a skank and hangs out with horny men at pick-up-joints" husband bites the dust. I know. That was me a long time ago. Not dealing with it at the time brought me here years later.

It's hard to spy when it's over. But not impossible. Send a PI to the bar to get some cell footage of her posse. Twice a week every week? Her apple didn't fall far from THAT tree. Show her the video and ask how it could POSSIBLY be that she was the only one not acting like "that" when she went out so much.

Sorry to turn this into a "GNO - Yay or nay" thread, but that's what it is. We haven't had one in a while.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

I forgot about the weekends. That's quite a group of gals she was partying with. I'll bet Facebook has all of your answers. You just need to find them.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

I think you know EXACTLY what happened. The tough part now will be finding a way to prove it.

What kind of cell phone does your wife use?


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## Thorburn (Nov 23, 2011)

Too many red flags for me.

1. *So several months ago she said she was depressed about getting older (we are in our 30's) and said she loves me but was restless with the marriage (her words)* Then she goes out dancing, gives at least one guy her phone number.

2. Changes her the way she does sex. My wife did the same thing, why? In my case she was having sex with OM.

I liked the idea of looking at her friends FB. 

When married women go out for girls nights out it spells trouble many times over.

You may never know.


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## Plan 9 from OS (Jul 13, 2012)

I'm open to seeing how this story unfolds, but something doesn't sound right about it. Consider me skeptical...for now.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Go over the cell phone record/bills with a fine tooth comb. Do not assume a number under a name actually belongs to that name. A mans number will usually be listed under a woman's/friends name.

Check credit card spending too.

I personally think something happened before she said she wanted to go out and cat around so look back before that time too. This may have all been an excuse to be with someone she already had lined up.

Also, there is non reason to think she hasn't taken something underground now.

I would use some cars on her even at this late date to be sure. After all 80% of cheaters are never caught.


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## toonaive (Dec 13, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> Did you go out with your friends at all during this time?
> 
> Since you did nothing to confirm one way or the other, I think you need to assume that she did not cross the line and came to conclusion that the partying was not a good idea.
> 
> ...


Actually, I think you need to assume the opposite. From the information you gave, you need to assume she has crossed that line, and is on her way out of the marriage.


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## dash74 (Jan 3, 2015)

Get with the Polka King of the Midwest about your wifes phone, brush up on Polish, do a txt dump on her phone and dont yell suka to loud


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Go over the cell phone record/bills with a fine tooth comb. Do not assume a number under a name actually belongs to that name. A mans number will usually be listed under a woman's/friends name.
> 
> Check credit card spending too.
> 
> ...


I agree,

It would not hurt to recover any deleted texts from her phone and check the history of calls going back a little before the GNO's.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Get tested for STDS. Just to be on the safe side.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## dental (Apr 16, 2014)

justin401 said:


> ... She asked me to be patient with her and said that she needed to do this and to let her go. I said OK. ... I asked if she ever wanted me to go and she said I wouldnt like the place ... She said she always came home to me .... She said she was "getting too into it." .... she started doing something new in bed with me that she never did before...


Oh dear, your W must be extremely happy with a man incapable of saying no.


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## Row Jimmy (Apr 15, 2013)

She may not have physically cheated at all... but how can she explain giving some guy her cell number? Why wouldn't you ask why she would give her number out to a stranger in a bar? 

The fact that she did that calls bull snot on her claim of "handling it" as that is WAY out of line. The fact that she seemed to quit right after that shows tells me that she almost got caught and realized the danger she was putting her marriage in as she likely wasn't planning on leaving you... just having some outside fun. 

If the phone is in your name or if you have access to the billing you can likely check phone records to get the number of the guy that called your place as you know the time and date. Once you confirm that then look back in her phone records to see if she has had any contact and for how long. Maybe call him and ask him why he has your wife's phone number... 

Snooping her phone for old text messages or emails is ideal. You may need to buy software to try to pull deleted texts. Gus is the man on TAM for that stuff.

You could put a keylogger on the home computer she uses to find out who she talks to on the internet and her various email accounts and passwords. 

You could also plant a VAR in her car or around the house and see who she talks to when you aren't around. 

It is highly likely she has had some adventures that at least included flirting and dancing/grinding with strangers but she'll most likely only admit to what you can prove as cheaters tend to LIE. 

OR.... you can trust her despite the many red flags and hope she is done with that behavior. 

I agree that MC is a good idea as your marriage may not be as strong as you think it is if she needs to escape it like she's been doing.


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

justin401 said:


> This is my first post. I'm sure there have been other similar threads about this, but I'm worried about what might have happened when my wife went out for girls night out over the last few months. We have been married eight years and have two little kids. I work long hours and she works part time. So several months ago she said she was depressed about getting older (we are in our 30's) and said she loves me but was restless with the marriage (her words). Then several weeks later she said she wanted to start going out with girlfriends to a country western dance bar for girls nights out -- twice a week every week. I didn't mind her going out once in a while but wasnt sure about two nights a week or anything that often. She asked me to be patient with her and said that she needed to do this and to let her go. We have always trusted each other and been good together so I said OK. I asked if she ever wanted me to go and she said I wouldnt like the place. So this went on, every week, for a few months. Always on weeknights. I told her I didn't like the idea of guys slow dancing and hitting on her at the bar, but she said she would handle it. She said she always came home to me, which is true. The same group of girls also had a couple of weekends out of town together and that didn't bother me. But then one afternoon when I was home her phone rang while she was outside so I answered it, and it was a guy asking for her. They didn't talk long. She was polite and friendly. Then when she hung up, she had this big "Oh sh--" look on her face. I asked who he was and she said a friend of the girl who organized the girls nights out and he asked her if she wanted to go meet him for coffee (that day) but she said no. Later I asked her how long these beer joint nights were gonna continue. Soon after that she stopped going out. She said she was "getting too into it."
> 
> She didn't stay out super late but was usually gone two or three hours. It does seem fishy that all of the girls would want to go out that often (some are single/divorced and some are married) and I wonder if some of those nights she was meeting someone. Also, after a few months of this, she started doing something new in bed with me that she never did before. She initiated it. I asked where she learned that and she was vague, said she didn't know just wanted to try it. (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to describe it more then that.)
> 
> ...


In bold, as Eli pointed out in her post, "Love Busters" and "His Needs, Her Needs". Affair proof the marriage.


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

justin401 said:


> And what can I do to avoid a repeat of this? What happened?


Well the first thing you can do is accept this as a lesson learned about marital boundaries. You can't control what she does, but you can damn sure control what you will accept from her; and there's no way you should have accepted GNO's twice a week for several months. Now that she has given you reason to suspect her for cheating, you'd be well advised not to accept *any* more GNO's.

As for as what happened, I'd say there is at least a chance she didn't have sex with any of these guys, but it's a small one. Follow the advice on monitoring her and if you find anything, don't confront without solid evidence.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

Get Proof ! Texts, emails, surveillance cam from the club, anything you can get your hands on. There are too many red flags here.
My stbx also won't admit until i told him i knew the truth. Suddenly she needed to quit? Most likely she did something stupid before she came into that conclusion


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## weightlifter (Dec 14, 2012)

DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!
DO NOT ASK HER ABOUT IT!

my gut says even money on sex but she had a target...

or better yet.
She WAS THE TARGET.

Beyond a text dump from her phone I kind of doubt anything is going on currently.
Just keep your eyes open and your *MOUTH SHUT!*


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Are you for real dude?

She wanted to party like a single girl and you let her.

Yes, she banged at least one other man, possibly more.

Her fantasy life got a little too real when the guy who was fvcking her brains out on her "GNOs" called her in real life and you answered.

This might not be exact but you can bet your ass it is close.

I don't often say this but you almost deserve this.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

I wonder what she would do or say if the OP wanted Guys night out twice a week for some alone time now that everything has settled down?

maybe even after a while try something new in the bedroom after these Guys night out

I know it might be the wrong thing to do at this point, but i bet she would have a problem with it, especially now.

I know we can all be hypocrites, but some take it to whole new level.


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

If she is glued to the phone and you would have trouble with enough time to run a recovery of the texts, It might be time to "lose" her phone and take it off site for the recovery. People lose phones all the time.

you might want to wait for a couple of weeks - she will probably suspect you might have "lost" it for her.

be ready to buy her a new phone (in your name) maybe even with some special software on it before you hand it to her


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

P.S. If you can find your testicles, they are in your cheating wife's purse, have the exact same talk with your wife.

Say that she had her fun now it is your turn.

She can hold down the household and babysit while you dress to the nines and go partying with a bunch of single party friends.

If you aren't in shape, start working hard lifting heavy. Look like dynamite going out and keep the same schedule she did. Give your number out and remember, "what happens away from home stays away from home".

Tell her not to worry because no matter what happens out partying, you always come home to her.

Man the hell up!

If she won't give you the same deal you gave her then leave or just sit in a corner sucking your thumb!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

justin401 said:


> And what can I do to avoid a repeat of this? What happened?


I havent done this in a while but based on the way you handled it thus far, here's your sign.










Rest assured that if the call she received was from a guy who organizes the GNO, he's in the business of lining up men and women to meet at the club.


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## MichinCC (Sep 30, 2014)

No, you didn't deserve this. To insinuate so is just cruel. Yes, you should have said NO to such a ludicrous GNO schedule. As a female, I will say, if I was going out that frequently to bars, it wouldn't be for innocent reasons. The fact that she gave out her number should make your radar go effing haywire. Anyone who is innocent would throw their wedding ring finger in the air and say "Nope" to anyone asking for numbers. Don't let her fool you. She was looking for male attention. Handing out her number shows you how far she was trying to take it (or did take it).


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## manfromlamancha (Jul 4, 2013)

OP, the sad truth is that based on just pure statistics here on TAM, she probably did take it further with at least one guy and now has buried it so deep you probably will never find it. The telltale signs are there however. And sure it was a mistake to let her go on the GNO/dancing/bars/hooking up nights but thats done now and I am sure you have learned your lesson there.

The problem is that this is going to eat you alive if you do not address it. Monitoring, VARs, key loggers, email/text/calls history all are good things to do but it maybe too late now. What you can do is ask her to take a polygraph and choose your questions with the examiner wisely. If she refuses - you have your answer anyway (just not the details). If she fails the poly, then you need to lay down the law i.e. full disclosure, transparency etc with no guarantee of reconciliation or deviation from divorce.

And do not accept any other course of action at this stage. There is a chance that she will confess in the parking lot of the poly venue. It might still be trickle truth so beware.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If you are motivated, call the guy who called your wife and talk to him.

Maybe check out the bar she frequents and ask some questions.

Might turn something up.

You say some of the women that went out were married?

Maybe contact some of those husbands and ask them if they noticed anything odd in the last several months.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

Justin401

Well to start I see many red flags here. Probably too many to dismiss as casual girls night out. The biggest red flag is that she was depressed. Is she still? Another red flag is she was restless in the marriage. Is she still? Another red flag is how much did her behavior change during these nights out? Distant? Closer? More or less affection? Did sex increase of decrease? 

Why did she tell you that you should trust her to act in a single manner? I have kids also, guess what, I don't go out two nights a week and live as a single person. Kids are a responsibility, one she signed up for by getting pregnant. But to me this appears to get much worse for you. How did a male get her phone number? There is no reason, again no reason, for her to give her number to a male. She told you she could handle herself dancing with men when she shouldn't be. She told you she could handle the guys hitting on her. I say she did a fine job of that, she gave him her number. 

You need to look at your cell phone bill. You need to look at her phone, although I'm sure it's gone. Now this next part I would do and I'll leave it up to you if you do this. You know where and what days she went out. Go there. Show a picture of your wife and ask if anyone knows her. Say you and her had a good time together and that you lost her number. Chances are the same crowd still goes there and someone will recognize her. This happened with a buddy if mine and they pointed us in the direction of his wife's boyfriend. Buy someone a drink and they'll share the world with you on occasion. Just what I would do. 

Do I think she cheated? Yes. Did it end? Yes. Will it happen again? Yes. Why? Because you should not have allowed this to happen. She is married, has problems within the marriage, going out to bars and dancing with other men does NOT FIX THE MARITAL ISSUES. 

Good luck to you, I hope your marriage is getting better.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

I really find it hard how any one who's been married for a while can simply go along with their partner suddenly wanting to go out twice a week with the girls on a regular basis
Trust is needed in Marriage but blind trust is just asking for trouble

I'm sorry your here BUT YES some thing did happen and its almost certain she's gone too far


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## bryanp (Aug 25, 2011)

Sorry but you are in big time denial.
I suggest that you get tested for STD's.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

If you can get a hold of the guy that had your wife's number.

Get to know him if you can and invite him over for dinner.
Don't tell him who you are and don't tell your wife what you're doing.

Have it be a surprise. If she acts strange, which is inevitable, just tell her you wanted to meet some of her friends and thought this would be the good way to get to know them.

Make sure your kids are there at the table.

She really shouldn't have any problem with a "friend" meeting her family. After all, real friends respect children and husbands... right?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

The more I think about it, the more I realize that POSOM actually calling her, and your reading of her reaction pretty much confirms your worst fears.

She told you she would 'handle' things with OM at the clubs.

Well, obviously that didn't happen.

She gave out her number to at least one POS that you know of......how is this 'handling' it? 

And this a**hat actually felt confident enough to call your WW up, a MARRIED woman, and ask her on a date.

You saw it in her face OP...she was busted and she knew it.

She quit right afterwards because she knew her little side action fantasy sex life had now collided with and entered her real life with you, and any continuation on her part was going to expose it all...possibly leading to losing her secure and cushy life.

Find out who this POS is and how much she was talking to him.

And btw, I'm not trying to hurt you with this, but rather to encourage you to finally find the righteous anger you should have let loose much earlier in this situation, but....that new sex technique she introduced as if out of thin air?

This POS was the one who introduced it to her.

Get angry OP....your WW played you for a fool and betrayed you and the family you two built together.


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## Roselyn (Sep 19, 2010)

Career woman here, 35 years married, college educator and have college girls from 21 yrs. + around other than the older secretaries in my office. "Girls' Night Out" are for single girls, not for married women! The women are out to party and usually loose with men. One night stands are frequent.

I have two female college students who are bartenders. They say that women in their 30s, hitting on men in their 20's, are the worst especially the married kind. They must have husbands like you and all asleep. Husbands finance the drinking, hotel fees, meals, and gifts to these younger men. I believe that your wife had an affair and the OM was on the line when you answered it. You rugswept your wife's affair and you know it. It haunts you now! See a psychologist as a marriage counselor cannot help you now. Set your mind straight. I believe that you have a low self-esteem to allow your wife to snowball you in your marriage.


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## KatViolet (Jul 27, 2015)

It really depends on each person's personality, when i was still with my husband i had girls night out but it only consisted of spa,fancy dinner and movies, all done before midnight. I had never tempted to cheat because loyalty, BUT when i was single i used to hang out in lounge club type and boy, i couldn't count on how many married men being stupid. The same apply with married women too, 50/50

OP, i think you really trust your wife so that's why you're in denial. I don't think you're stupid for being too trusting, i think your wife is the stupid one for screwing up relationship with a great guy like you for cheap thrill. And yes it could happen again, only she'd be better at hiding it


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

KatViolet said:


> It really depends on each person's personality, when i was still with my husband i had girls night out but it only consisted of spa,fancy dinner and movies, all done before midnight. I had never tempted to cheat because loyalty, BUT when i was single i used to hang out in lounge club type and boy, i couldn't count on how many married men being stupid. The same apply with married women too, 50/50
> 
> OP, i think you really trust your wife so that's why you're in denial. I don't think you're stupid for being too trusting, i think your wife is the stupid one for screwing up relationship with a great guy like you for cheap thrill. *And yes it could happen again, only she'd be better at hiding it*


Exactly. And next time she'll have a secret e-mail address, fake social media profiles, a burner phone... the whole shebang.

Emphasis on _bang_.


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## Graywolf2 (Nov 10, 2013)

justin401 said:


> The same group of girls also had a couple of weekends out of town together and that didn't bother me. But then one afternoon when I was home her phone rang while she was outside so I answered it, and it was a guy asking for her. They didn't talk long. She was polite and friendly. Then when she hung up, she had this big "Oh sh--" look on her face. I asked who he was and she said a friend of the girl who organized the girls nights out and he asked her if she wanted to go meet him for coffee (that day) but she said no.


*She’s not advertising the fact that she’s married very well.* A man gets her number, calls her, gets you and isn’t deterred. Then he asks her for a date. It sounds like he ended the conversation still not knowing that she was married. 

*Your story has more red flags than a communist parade.
*


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## Yeswecan (Jul 25, 2014)

GNO are not always mad crazy women throwing themselves at anything standing around. Some GNO are just that. Movie, dinner or as of late...painting parties that can be purchased on Groupon. My W will celebrate birthdays with her friends. It is a GNO. After a mess of pictures on FB of the planned GNO it is easy to see each and every friend is exactly were they say the are and having fun with the planned activity.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Waldo???
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## TRy (Sep 14, 2011)

justin401 said:


> said she loves me but was restless with the marriage (her words). Then several weeks later she said she wanted to start going out with girlfriends to a country western dance bar for girls nights out -- twice a week every week. I didn't mind her going out once in a while but wasnt sure about two nights a week or anything that often. She asked me to be patient with her and said that she needed to do this and to let her go. We have always trusted each other and been good together so I said OK. I asked if she ever wanted me to go and she said I wouldnt like the place.


 You do not know what she was doing on those girls nights out? Other men that she knows from these nights out call to invite her out and you do not know what was going on? These other men have her phone number and are allowed to go with her on these so called girls night out even though she does not want you to go and you do not know what is going. She told you what was going on when she said that "was restless with the marriage".

Sit her down and tell her that you know much more about those nights than she thinks that you know, and that you will never tell her what you know or how you know it because then she will be able to spin her lies around this information, and it would allow her to know how to better hide it in the future. Tell her that cheating is bad for a marriage, but that lying is worse. Then look her in the eyes and ask her to confess right now if she wants to have a real chance at saving this marriage long term. Ask this question and shut up. No matter how long she says nothing just let the question hang until she answers. When she tries to side step answering the question just answer the same question and again shut up. Eventually if she will not answer the question, be angry and tell her that you are disappointed that you cannot trust her, and tell her that you will take your time before acting on what you already know; then walk away. Later sit her down and tell her that you need to know the answer to one thing; then ask her "did you love him?" She is more likely to answer this question because it is not directly asking about the cheating. If she answers yes or no then you will know that there was another man. Then ask her why she did it.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

Try's plan is a good one at this point, since she obviously cooled everything off after she was nearly exposed.

One thing I would add....get a couple of VAR's and a text monitoring app on her phone BEFORE sitting her down for this confrontation...and make sure she doesn't know about them.

After you confront, I can promise you she will be talking to any friend who knows and possibly POSOM to give him a heads up that you suspect.

You will find out A LOT more details after this.

And, unfortunately, this might be your only viable option to discover what really went down at this point.

She is no longer engaged in whatever was going on, because of the near miss situation...so sitting back, shutting you mouth, and just monitoring (which is what most posters would advise if she was still running around) is not going to reveal much at this time.

UNLESS you rock the boat by a confrontation similar to Try's plan.....she will panic at that point and start to communicate with those in the know, her ****ty friends and POSOM(s), about your suspicions and confrontation.

If you are prepared, you will get most of the details you need.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

KatViolet said:


> It really depends on each person's personality, when i was still with my husband i had girls night out but it only consisted of spa,fancy dinner and movies, all done before midnight.


I think most posters have very little problems with normal GNOs. I'd call yours a spa day not a GNO, but that is arguing semantics. Also, the locale is important as well. It is no different, IMO, than me going to the sports bar to chill and talk with my male friends. 

Heck, I have had a weekly one for the last 15 years. 


Twice a week, after saying I am depressed, worried about my age and staying out late? My wife wold be a FOOL to approve, again this isn't about control, going to clubs and bars after a midlife crisis statement.


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## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

Thanks for your feedback, that's what I needed. FWIW, I know I blew it here in several ways. You guys have mentioned them all. Obviously the sex thing could have come from a guy she slept with, or else I wouldnt have brouhgt it up. Anyway, I have not found any thing else yet. Once I do, we definitely will talk. For sure, somehow. If I didn't sound pissed off in the OP, let me clear that up OK? I have stopped kicking myself and am moving passed the hurt and confusion and into the anger stage. Btw, we are moving soon to a small town in the Northwest for a new job that is less demanding and which shouldnt have so many temptatons, but we have to put things behindus first. Thanks everybody.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

justin401 said:


> Thanks for your feedback, that's what I needed. FWIW, I know I blew it here in several ways. You guys have mentioned them all. Obviously the sex thing could have come from a guy she slept with, or else I wouldnt have brouhgt it up. Anyway, I have not found any thing else yet. Once I do, we definitely will talk. For sure, somehow. If I didn't sound pissed off in the OP, let me clear that up OK? I have stopped kicking myself and am moving passed the hurt and confusion and into the anger stage. Btw, we are moving soon to a small town in the Northwest for a new job that is less demanding and which shouldnt have so many temptatons, but we have to put things behindus first. Thanks everybody.


You'd be wise to get this all sorted out BEFORE you move.


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## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> You'd be wise to get this all sorted out BEFORE you move.


That's what I said.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

justin401 said:


> That's what I said.


So are you delaying the move or no?


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## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

GusPolinski said:


> So are you delaying the move or no?


It's not for another month. There's some time.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

justin401 said:


> It's not for another month. There's some time.


What's your plan going forward?


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

We're all forgetting about the weekends. Did she go on a lot of them? Where did they go? IF you had me pick:

A - that cute little B & B in the wine country, or
B - Lake Havasu for Spring Break.

I'm going with "B or similar". Vegas, NY, LA...


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## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

You know what to do Justin.

The key is dealing with it now otherwise this will just happen again.

Sadly your wife sounds lost.

If she still talks to these "friends" you should put a VAR in her car to catch her conversations.

That information could enlighten your situation.

Did your wife read 50 Shades of Grey?


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## justin401 (Jul 28, 2015)

happyman64 said:


> Did your wife read 50 Shades of Grey?


No.


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## Lostinthought61 (Nov 5, 2013)

Some times thinking the worse case  backwards is the best course of action, it makes the answer not as bad as the worse case scenario at times. In your case I have a sense that you really don't want to know the answer, because deep down inside you know something is seriously wrong and you want to just turn your back to it and go on with life....but it will never go away....it will away be there.....you can deny it if you want....you can stop posting......until the next time something happens.....then you will be back and it may be too late. Good luck with that


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## inhope (Nov 17, 2010)

All I can say.
YOU pick up her phone once, and by pure coincidence there is another man at the end of the line...

_
Country people say, if you happen to see one rat out and about in the daytime, you have a very serious rat problem.
_


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## happyman64 (Jan 12, 2012)

justin401 said:


> No.


Good.

And by the way your wife is not having a midlife crisis.

What she is having is a good case of selfishness.

Now be smart and don't let her rug sweep this episode in your lives.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.



LOL. You'd be surprised at how well-tuned much of our insight actually is.

And here's the thing... you don't yet know how bad things are for you, and therefore how bad your "experience" is going to wind up being.

Assume the worst and work from there. Doing otherwise may very well accomplish little more for you than leaving a huge lump underneath your favorite rug.





#guspo7k


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

justin401 said:


> Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


Before you get all pissy about it, remember it was you who was chasing this site looking for advice. I don't know how your wife went with these cats she met at the club. But here's the thing, when a woman tells you she's getting restless in the marriage, it means she looking for adventure she ain't finding in you. From what youre saying, the only reason she stop the twice weekly GNO and several weekend trips to get away from you, the kids, and her stressful part time job, is because she started liking it too much. Back in the day, I was a good dancer and I would get invited to these things by the guy much like the GNO organizer. I participated in some of the stuff that goes on. Some of the women ended up in the back seat of a car or a bathroom stall and some didn't.
But like a lot of the dialog here, it focuses on what happened or is happening rather than why she felt the need to take a break for you and be around other men. As a caveat Dawg, that likely hasn't changed or at least you need to make sure it has.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


Hahaha! LOL!!! Yeah. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Your wife got restless in her marriage and wanted to see what being single would be like. Most people question their marriages occasionally. Most people fantasize about what it would be like to be single. Most people would enjoy going out without kids / spouse to party, get hit on, hit on people and possibly have sex. But most people recongnize this as not really a good idea of you intend to remain married and keep their families together. So there is kind of a red flag that your wife does not have this ability to resist such temptations of finding the single life. You realize now that if you are ever presented with such a thing in the future you must tell your wife that you don't think marriage works this way and if she wants to puruse the single life that you will pursue legal divorce to make it official. In your world wives are 100% committed to marriage and family or they will be cut loose.  You need to take a hard line with a wife who cannot regulate herself.

It seems that she is "back" in the marriage. But I think a conversation needs to happen to get you and your wife on solid ground. The topics of this conversation are 1. Are you wife 100% committed to your marriage which means she will not be allowed to behave like a single person ever again? 2. Is your wiife willing to work with you to fill the gaps in whatever she feels she is missing out on in life? 3. If knowing the absolute truth is imporant to you, is she willing to tell you the entire truth of her sexual activities while on this marital hiatus and back it up with a lie detector test.

The chance that she had sex with someone else is about 95%. But, that does not need to matter unless you make it matter.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


Unfortunately, we're sugar coating what we really think. When a person comes here with their suspicions the incidence of infidelity is found over 95% of the time.

The only odd thing about your situation is that she quit going out after she got the call.

And the only reason you think it might be a call about coffee is thats what she told you.  Unfortunately, cheaters learn lying like pros.

There is not one tiny indication your wife hasnt cheated on you.

My wife said she was going out with her office friends just before she went the first time. When she came in all tipsy, i told her the next time her things would be on the front porch and the locks changed. I didnt marry untill was thirty three. I know exactly why people go clubbing........ Even newlyweds.


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Unfortunately, we're sugar coating what we really think. When a person comes here with their suspicions the incidence of infidelity is found over 95% of the time.
> 
> The only odd thing about your situation is that she quit going out after she got the call.
> 
> ...


This.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Tell your wife you heard a funny rumor. Then ask her if its true she was taking her wedding rings off when she went out.


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## alte Dame (Aug 7, 2012)

You say that you are planning to move.

Do you have a dealbreaker? If so, you should investigate as much as you can before you move in order to see if she has already broken your deal.

People have different limits and different senses of what they can forgive, so I can't assume anything about you. What I do know, however, is that things will be much harder if you make a big move only to find out that your situation is much worse than even you are imagining. Sadly, the people here are usually on the money. Your wife's behavior is signature.


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Chaparral said:


> Tell your wife you heard a funny rumor. Then ask her if its true she was taking her wedding rings off when she went out.


That's their great excuse. "If I wanted to cheat, I'd have taken off my wedding ring". What they don't tell you is that nobody is looking for a wife there. Wedding ring means no phone calls tomorrow. A wedding ring is used as bait. I can GUARANTEE she left it on.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.





I'm sorry justin401, I just couldn't let this go. In the most nicest of ways let me tell you something. I found TAM to late. If I had found TAM earlier I probably would have had to deal with an EA and not an EA/PA. That's my fault, because like you I looked at my sweet innocent WW through rose colored glasses, through a fog, and had her placed on a pedestal. There is no way my WW did anything more then console a friend of hers and holding his hand. There was no way my wife, that sweet, innocent woman) could possibly be having an affair. No, my WW was too perfect for that, she cared way too much for me to betray me. My WW is the love of my life, she's perfect in everything she does. 

I too, thought my WW was infallible, thought she didn't have a selfish part of her, but I was wrong, very very wrong. But you are correct I'm jaded, I look at a couple walking holding hands and think, I wonder which one is cheating. I then wonder am I looking at the OM or OW? So yes, I understand your comment above, I was naive too. But like most people I never imagined I would be a BS. And sadly, I am. You have an opportunity in front of you that evades you, a resource that you are using incorrectly. TAM and it's posters. If you have read any of the threads here, good, take notes, LEARN, because what you find out is going to destroy you. Infidelity can literally take the very life from your lungs.

Learn justin401, learn what these posters are telling you, see what they see, then learn more. Your world is about to explode, you will feel pain like no other, and you will stand alone in the field amongst the ruins. Only then I'm afraid, will you understand what every poster here has been trying to tell you. 

The posters here are honest with you and your post is from deep in your mind as your eyes are closed to everything around you. They try to open your eyes and you come back with the post above. The only thing more sad about your post, is that it was me also. So you may think what I typed about my WW was sarcastic, the fact is I saw her that way, she was the most virtuous, beautiful, and caring woman I knew. All, yes all of my friends were envious of me. My WW was perfect in every way possible. My love for her was as much as I could love a person. But it wasn't returned in a way I needed, it was returned in the worst way you could ever imagine. In case you didn't know, I am reconciling with my WW probably to the chagrin of most posters here. But it's my life, my marriage, and they have supported me in ways that I am most thankful. 

Before you lump all of us in one post, understand what each of us has gone through, understand that we get angered, not at you but for you, we know what's coming and it hurts. 

I wish you the best justin401, I will pray that each of us is wrong.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

Sorry Justin. You are correct. A group mentality kicks in and we assume the worst. I was hoping to modify my post after the snarky "Girls gone wild" comment. Apologies. But there was a little of that old "a gal's got to go out and let loose without PERMISSION from her jailer" smell sneaking in. I wanted to try to temper that with it's not just "we want to go out and dance in a man free bubble", but there are these weekends as well. Combined with the twice-weekly meat market trips, and you've got one hell of a killer two day, no curfew, no check-in party. Come to think of it, Ft. Lauderdale in March vs. the little village in the wine country (or the next town over) probably wouldn't make much of a difference. Less competition in the wine country, I'd guess.

But I'm not here to pile on. I'm here because I'm all caught up at work and I lived your life one summer (sans out-of-town trips. How bad WAS your denial?). Sorry about that. Where was I. Oh, yeah. You and denial.

People on this forum today don't understand that they are in the minority when they feel married women probably shouldn't go clubbing regularly w/o their SO's. Go to most other sites, and you get an "it depends" attitude. Or even that "You need to give your prisoner PERMISSION to go out?" attitude I described earlier. Your original post would have been treated significantly differently at other forums. Even THIS forum when I first started researching my problem 5 or so years ago.

10+ years ago. I would lie in bed at 2:00 in the morning wondering where she was. Who she was with. What was she doing. She'd always roll in at 2:30. Brush teeth. Piss. In bed with her back to me without a word. No word the next day as to where she went. I didn't ask. I was NOT one of those controlling Neanderthal husbands. 

It was sporadic. Not every weekend. But always Saturday night. She'd never tell me when she was going. Butterflies would start Friday afternoon (She could switch to Friday night at a moments notice, right?). Then all Day Saturday I would live in fear that this would be the night. I'd notice her showering at about 7:30 and know this was it. Then I'd watch her get ready for date night. She's just going dancing, right? 

All of that to say I understand how this happened. I get what you went through during all of this. Maybe I was just an idiot too, but I understand the culture that caused this to happen. 

You might like this part Justin. I even got paranoid for a second that my wife had found me here and posted this. These nights stopped when one of her "new friends" called her for a date. I didn't say anything until I saw the notes where she ACTUALLY SET UP A DATE WITH HIM!!

No more party nights after that.

I swept it under the rug. I'm on these types of forums 5 years later. Still no closure 5 years after that.

You've got a lot of spying to do before you leave. At least the spying that requires you to be local.

- Can you talk to the husbands of any of these gals? Find out what they think? See what they know? They may be relieved that they are not the only ones going through this and want to talk.

- Any of the girls get marginalized recently? This is a pack of women we're talking about. One must get shunned from the pride monthly.

- Go to this bar on party night. Sit in the back and observe. If too many people know you there, get someone else to do it. PI if you need to.

- This was an AWESOME idea from earlier: take a selfie of you and your wife with a dark background that could have been taken at that bar and ask the bartender if he knows her. You two had a BLAST together and you need to find her. You lost her number. The bartender should know your wife, and he knows what a "blast" she is, so he talks to you. Better yet, talk to regulars that hang w/ her posse. They'll know her. Buy them a drink and talk about the awesome time you had there with her. A PI could do all of this if you can't. 

- I don't know social media, but find her gal-pals on facebook or whatever social media these party animals would post their pictures. There WILL BE pics of your wife. 

- Download cell billing. At least see who she was calling/texting after these play dates. SHE may have been home by midnight. But the boys were still at the bar, doing their damndest to get her back there. I'll let the experts tell you how to recover those texts. Some she may feel were innocent at the time may still be on the phone. You reading them today, in new context, could tell you a lot.

- Make up a REALLY GOOD excuse for going out of town and put a tail on her. She will want one last party before leaving. Video chat with her through Skype with the Alamo or whatever in the background so she KNOWS you're gone. The PI/_reliable_ friend to tail her will do the rest. Minimum, get a VAR in her car to see how the conversations go when she finds out you will be out of town for TWO of the gals party nights.

So far all she did was go out and dance. She's 100% innocent. You need to prove that or prove otherwise. Don't be me in 10 years.


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## G.J. (Nov 4, 2014)

MachoMcCoy

So you never found out or didn't investigate who she was hooking up with or what happened.......O.M.G.

I couldn't live like that...EVER


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## MachoMcCoy (Oct 20, 2014)

G.J. said:


> MachoMcCoy
> 
> So you never found out or didn't investigate who she was hooking up with or what happened.......O.M.G.
> 
> I couldn't live like that...EVER


Not at the time. It was only one long summer. It was hard.

So many years later, the trail was cold. All of her hangouts closed down. She "doesn't remember". (I chuckle when I hear someone say that about their spouse. Especially when they say it weeks, not years after the fact). 

There are still people I can ask. But how pathetic to admit to a friend that I can't get over my wife going out dancing 10 years earlier?

Which brings up another problem: Which of my friends partied with her then? Which of my friends saw whatever she was doing? Which of my friends heard a story that starts with "You wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard about Mrs McCoy..."

And this isn't a thread jack. Justin: How many of YOUR friends know what a...party girl she is? (note I said IS, not was). How many people in town know something about your wife that you don't?


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## ConanHub (Aug 9, 2013)

BTW OP. I am not laughing at your pain but your naiveté and deadly "nice guy" attitude that your wife took full advantage of.

She knows you well and abused the beautiful love/trust you have for her.

Not all women are like your wife and many would love to be cherished by a man like you.

You are not married to one of those women who know a good thing when they have it.

You are married to an unfaithful "restless" woman who didn't care about what she had until her "friend" called her up and you answered.

If you want a chance at reconciliation, she has to be brought to task for her behavior and you have to stop being such a "nice guy".

Your wife needs a bit more badass and a little less Ned Flanders.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ConanHub said:


> BTW OP. I am not laughing at your pain but your naiveté and deadly "nice guy" attitude that your wife took full advantage of.
> 
> She knows you well and abused the beautiful love/trust you have for her.
> 
> ...


Justin
Without consequences why would she stop?
We are all just hoping the best for you.
A poster who was here had the perfect phrase...
If you don't respect yourself who will?
Peace man.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

> Sorry Justin. You are correct. A group mentality kicks in and we assume the worst


For some. Some do look at what is posted before the "group mentality" kicks in.



justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything?


 A strange man called and asked YOU if your wife could go out on a date...............



justin401 said:


> I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


No. A guy never asked me to let my wife go on a date.


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## drifting on (Nov 22, 2013)

ConanHub said:


> BTW OP. I am not laughing at your pain but your naiveté and deadly "nice guy" attitude that your wife took full advantage of.
> 
> She knows you well and abused the beautiful love/trust you have for her.
> 
> ...




Justin401, even if the WS does everything right, puts an effort in that you have never seen towards anything before, you will still wonder about reconciliation. It's the nature of the beast, infidelity CHANGES you no matter if you want or not. Listen, learn, adapt, then shoot off a comment that says we are jaded, bitter, even angry, but I think every poster has been right.

Ask yourself this justin401, if your wife is innocent TO THE DEGREE you think she is, why are you here. In your mind justin401 it appears you think she danced and maybe flirted to the extent of a peck on the cheek. I tell you what, I'll be more than happy to eat crow for every poster here if we are wrong. I'll even apologize to you for thinking that your wife is cheating. For what it's worth I think each poster here hopes we are wrong, so they are in fact supporting you.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> For some. Some do look at what is posted before the "group mentality" kicks in.
> 
> A strange man called and asked YOU if your wife could go out on a date...............
> 
> No. A guy never asked me to let my wife go on a date.


I don't think he asked OP. OP answered the phone, it was a man, and his wife claimed he asked her to go out for a cup of coffee.

The reason she stopped cruising the bars is because of the look she got from her husband when she told this bare faced lie. I'm sure his look was priceless. Like maybe chewing nails?


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## justastatistic (May 16, 2014)

justin401 said:


> Once, to a town nearby. No evidence of anything like that. Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? I know something happened, but maybe your posts say more about you then me. Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


You don't know what your experiences were. We know what our's were, and we've read hundreds more here. Those include the guys (for some reason it's always the guys, women seem more practical about the whole thing) who come here and post about their suspicions but then state they are so sure their wife would never actually cheat.

And then they come back, days, weeks, even months later, oh so surprised at what their wife was capable of.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> I don't think he asked OP.


I know he did not. 

I would understand the comment if this was her first or second GNO *ever*. She admitted another man, from her _friend's_ GNO group, asked her on a date. All of this after two nights a week GNOs, but posters are overreacting and assuming the worst.

I was using the same sarcastic hyperbolic tone as *"Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything?"
*


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

makes me wonder why a guy would still ask her when her husband just answered the phone?

he obviously felt comfortable enough to still ask.

I see many times in bars when a guy or a girl is talking/hitting on a married person and you here the married person say "oh I am in an open marriage".
I can't help but laugh, cause I figure the other spouse that is not there doesn't know they are in an open marriage.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

MachoMcCoy said:


> 10+ years ago. I would lie in bed at 2:00 in the morning wondering where she was. Who she was with. What was she doing. She'd always roll in at 2:30. Brush teeth. Piss. In bed with her back to me without a word. No word the next day as to where she went. I didn't ask. I was NOT one of those controlling Neanderthal husbands.


Mac, I guess I'm on a different wave link than a lot of guys. I'm asking this as a couple of serious questions because I would like to know. Why are some guys so afraid of being accused of being a controlling husband and why do you put up with being treated like she has no responsibility to you? If my wife would come close to pulling some of this on me, it would be WWIII?


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## badmemory (Jul 31, 2012)

justin401 said:


> Your experiences must of been even worse then mine.


Justin,

Admittedly, there are those of us on this forum who have a tendency to get vicarious satisfaction at seeing WS's get caught; at seeing them receive consequences. But that doesn't mean we're wrong. If you look at the patterns of cheaters, they are remarkably similar. You may think your wife is the exception, and she may be, but the odds are stacked against you once you reach a certain threshold of red flags.

Have our experiences been worse than yours? So far, yes. But if you get proof that your wife has been cheating, that will no longer be the case. You'll be a member of the club. 

Follow the sound advice and just ignore the hubris. I'm sure that I can speak for most of the posters when I say; we just want whatever is the best outcome for you.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

" Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? "

Justin,

Fair question.....but here is a simple explanation for you to mull over.

If YOU were to stay on this site for an extended period of time, reading threads and trying to help people struggling to deal with this crap, just as you are right now....you too would very quickly start to notice the same patterns of behavior and red-flags that every other poster is mentioning to you right now.

Don't believe that?......spend some time reading through the old threads going back for years.

It is true that I can remember a couple of threads where the OP's suspicions ended up being false indicators....maybe you will end up being one of these lucky few.

You know what you would find far more often though?

You would find an OP who argued with the experienced posters here....said they were over-reacting or cynical....insist that couldn't be their WS because they, unlike the posters here, really knew them....etc, etc.

A short while later...or even several months later....the OP returns saying 'You guys were right....I wish I had listened' or something to that effect.

Justin, 

I know you want to believe that most of the advice and insight others have offered to you are overreactions......believe it or not, all of us other posters would be thrilled to hear that everything you describe ended up being false indicators....we really would, as we wouldn't wish this horrid situation on anyone.

But you would be unwise to ignore any of these opinions, at this time.

As a couple of other posters have said....safest for you to assume that the worst case has happened and take action from this perspective.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

Dyokemm said:


> " Have you guys ever not assumed the worst about anything? "
> 
> Justin,
> 
> ...


This^^^
Polygraph or at the very least the threat and observe and listen to her reaction you just might get the rest of the story.


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## GusPolinski (Jan 21, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Mac, I guess I'm on a different wave link than a lot of guys. I'm asking this as a couple of serious questions because I would like to know. Why are some guys so afraid of being accused of being a controlling husband and why do you put up with being treated like she has no responsibility to you? If my wife would come close to pulling some of this on me, it would be WWIII?


It probably has something to do w/ the ever-increasing indoctrination to which many of us have been subjected over the course of the past couple of generations.

It seems that a husband can't stand up for himself -- or even say certain things -- w/o being accused of being "controlling", "insecure", or "needy". GMAFB.

Find your balls, fellas, lest your wives get into the habit of showing them off to all of their friends... along w/ their simpering, "understanding", ultra-beta husbots.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

GusPolinski said:


> It probably has something to do w/ the ever-increasing indoctrination to which many of us have been subjected over the course of the past couple of generations.
> 
> It seems that a husband can't stand up for himself -- or even say certain things -- w/o being accused of being "controlling", "insecure", or "needy". GMAFB.
> 
> Find your balls, fellas, lest your wives get into the habit of showing them off to all of their friends... along w/ their simpering, "understanding", ultra-beta husbots.


That's about it.:iagree::iagree::iagree:


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## Iver (Mar 8, 2013)

I tend to be optimistic about these things and I want to say it's not clear right now that your wife was cheating...that said you need to do some digging. 

Text messages, facebook, VAR in her car. See if there's a smoking gun somewhere. I'm not a techie but there's advice here on how to retrieve text messages. Look for apps on her phone for this as well.

It's a little dramatic but put a VAR in the house and car(after doing your homework) and call the dude who called your wife and ask him what he thought he was doing when he asked your wife out on a date. If you can see her texts you may see her reaction if the guy contacts her again.

Unfortunately if your gut is telling you something ain't right, well that's your answer right there. Your gut is usually right.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

I enjoy every thread where we have overreacted, which is rare. I prefer being made to eat crow because doubting your spouse sucks. Your story is already worse than mine and you still have no clue what really happened.


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## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

ThePheonix said:


> Mac, I guess I'm on a different wave link than a lot of guys. I'm asking this as a couple of serious questions because I would like to know. Why are some guys so afraid of being accused of being a controlling husband and why do you put up with being treated like she has no responsibility to you? If my wife would come close to pulling some of this on me, it would be WWIII?


I think that men have been trained to be like this going back to the 50s and 60s. Some, like me, really fall into the trap that MMSLP helps you out of. Others learn this stuff on their own or get lucky and have their parents teach them.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

I would challenge anyone to come up with ten innocent wives in the last thousand threads in the cwi section. Its very sad but its a testament to how good people can be to help perfect strangers navigate the worse thing that can happen to a relationship.


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

naiveonedave said:


> I think that men have been trained to be like this going back to the 50s and 60s. Some, like me, really fall into the trap that MMSLP helps you out of. Others learn this stuff on their own or get lucky and have their parents teach them.


Girls subconsciously dig a strong male.
This video she is lying through her teeth (ahem she is smoking hot)>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWSW1Zxv2Qo

Here is the truth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9XDb0nxSO4
Back to work.


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## Dyokemm (Apr 24, 2013)

"or get lucky and have their parents teach them."

You know....I think A LOT of it is what your parents teach you...and in my case it wasn't really a discussion from my dad about M/relationships....it was bigger than that.

My Dad always stressed to me don't be an a**hole ever...treat others with decency and respect.....BUT, he added, NEVER take sh*t, disrespect, or mistreatment from anyone.

To my Pop, the Golden Rule wasn't just a one way street governing how you should behave towards others.....it was also a guideline for what you yourself DEMAND from others at the same time.

As a result...I don't screw with other peoples lives....and at the same time, I will not let anyone f*ck with mine.

If they do, they had best watch out....there will be retaliation.


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## Archangel2 (Sep 25, 2014)

justin401 said:


> ...I am working on letting it go and moving on. I can try to forgive her if she slept with someone or almost did. But what do you guys think really happened? I really want to know. I can take it. I hate to ask her too much about it now that it's over and we're doing OK because it could make things worse. But we need to trust each other again. And what can I do to avoid a repeat of this? What happened?


Justin - I was just "driving by" and stopped to read your thread. I do not have any axes to grind here, so I hope my comments can be seen as dispassionate yet hopefully helpful.

1. I quoted from your original post here. You asked for opinions about what really happened. You also said that you can take it. You later were taken aback that the opinions of most of the responders held what your wife did in the worst possible light. With all due respect, aren't you being a little disingenuous here? These folks only have your best interests at heart. They are only trying to help (End of 2x4)

2. As far as trying to figure out what your wife did, I am afraid that the one who knows best is you. You know her better than anyone else. What is your gut telling you? What can you accept?

3. If you decide you really want to know what went on. Perhaps you need to blow things up in her circle of friends and their husbands/boyfriends. There is no honor among thieves (and cheaters too).

4. If you are a good poker player, perhaps you can bluff the OM who called your wife into a confession. I once read of a husband who confronted an OM in front of his family with an empty manilla envelope. He bluffed the OM into believing that the envelope contained a PI report. He got a full confession.

5. Lastly, if you are looking at reconciliation, may I suggest you approach your wife with the idea of going to Retrouvaille? I'll leave you with the task of finding out all about it, but I know of couples who have gone and have reported back that it improved their marriage. You both have to commit to doing all the exercises and the post meeting follow-ups. 

I hope all works out for you, and you can achieve peace of mind


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## Sports Fan (Aug 21, 2014)

Sorry Justin not good news. Most of us have been there done that.

You have many red flags here.

I would bet my bottom dollar she cheated. What you can do about it is make it absolutely clear this beahvour would not be tolerated again.

Failure to do so will result in this happening again.

As for your percieved doom and gloom from the crowd here once bitten twice shy, you are no exception.

They get upset cause they can see you have been taken for a ride same way they once were


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

GusPolinski said:


> It seems that a husband can't stand up for himself -- or even say certain things -- w/o being accused of being "controlling", "insecure", or "needy". GMAFB.


It a shame since women don't like even that sort of male. Males that buy into this "feminist" indoctrination are generally unaware of the extent which they are being manipulated and managed to a position of weakness and ultimately not worthy of respect. The call that we are suppose to piss in our pants, roll over and play dead when called controlling, a sexist, or other "ist" names, is something I've never found appealing . And neither do women. :wink2:


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## tom67 (Oct 2, 2012)

ThePheonix said:


> It a shame since women don't like even that sort of male. Males that buy into this "feminist" indoctrination are generally unaware of the extent which they are being manipulated and managed to a position of weakness and ultimately not worthy of respect. The call that we are suppose to piss in our pants, roll over and play dead when called controlling, a sexist, or other "ist" names, is something I've never found appealing . And neither do women. :wink2:


You da man eyes wide open
:allhail:


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## convert (Oct 4, 2013)

phillybeffandswiss said:


> I enjoy every thread where we have overreacted, which is rare. I prefer being made to eat crow because doubting your spouse sucks. Your story is already worse than mine and you still have no clue what really happened.


I agree.
I don't mind eating crow.

It is a lot better then a sh!t sandwich.


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## Thor (Oct 31, 2011)

MachoMcCoy said:


> Not at the time. It was only one long summer. It was hard.
> 
> So many years later, the trail was cold. All of her hangouts closed down. She "doesn't remember". (I chuckle when I hear someone say that about their spouse. Especially when they say it weeks, not years after the fact).
> 
> ...


I'm with you, wishing I'd found TAM years earlier!

And especially I want to emphasize that the problems don't go away with time. My marriage has never been, and never will be, the same again. _Even if my wife never had affairs_, *my* reality is that she did. This is my emotional reality, _but I can't prove it factually_.

There were red flags and even some smoking guns. But no dead bodies to tie the smoking guns to.

My advice Justin, stfu to her about it while you do some investigation. All the stuff mentioned by others. Her phone, phone records, VAR, keylogger, and yes even the club. Additionally, search her car thoroughly. Every nook and cranny, including spare tire and jack areas, seat pockets, door cubbies, etc. You're looking for condom wrappers, panties, bra, cigarette butts (if she doesn't smoke herself), or anything else odd. Look for receipts from places and times which don't match where she should have been. Review all the credit card and bank statements, also looking for such purchases.

Search her dresser and closet very carefully. You're looking for sexy underwear she never wears around you, or lingerie she never wears for you. Look inside her shoes and boots. Look inside purses, suitcases, etc. Search pockets of all clothing. You're looking for souvenirs, love letters, a burner phone, condoms, lube, etc.

Idk about the confrontation without any info. You're in a bad spot without any hard evidence. Anything circumstantial is useless. She'll claim that new sex technique was in women's magazine or a friend told her about it. BTDT on that one. On the other hand there have been some successful bluffs which have elicited confessions. Get guidance from the TAM members on how to do such a confrontation.

Finally, I think it is good if you tell her after all the rest is done, that for you there is this problem. You aren't accusing her of an affair, but you are reporting to her how you feel about what happened. So you don't approach it as an accusation, you approach it calmly. You are telling her about you.

When I was at this point I told my wife that we could work through anything, as long as it was out on the table so we could deal with it. (This is not a promise not to divorce, but you don't have to say that. This is a promise to work through it, which may end up in divorce. This is only a promise not to instantly divorce). I also told her that anything else I found out about from other than her *would be* an instant divorce. Carrot and stick.

If she cares about you, she will want to do what she can to help you deal with this. Perhaps MC. But definitely she would want to let you ask any questions and she will answer fully and honestly. She would give you full access to any and all information, including handing over her phone right now so you can have a professional pull everything off of it. She would be willing to take a polygraph.

If she clams up, makes angry statements about you being a crappy husband, or makes accusations that you cheated? Those would be the opposite of loving and innocent.

Which still doesn't give you CSI crime lab proof she cheated. But it would be confirmation she will never tell you the truth about what happened. Never. You can make decisions based on that, even without the CSI proof.


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## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

There are a bunch of threads with betrayed spouses coming back, ready to end marriages 10, 15 and 20+ years later. Why? Triggers. 


I'll summarize what everyone is telling you by recounting their stories and giving you advice.

You can't move past or forgive what you don't know.


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