# made all the fatal marriage mistakes



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

In dec my wife started working her night job more and not coming home till 5 am. I confronted her behavior and said it felt like she was avoiding me, she said thats exactly what she was doing...she says she cant go back to the negetivity...i was in no way shape or form a good husband. I would let the stress from work turn into anger at her when she would push my buttons.

i have trouble managing my anger, explosive non violent outbusts, have been pessimistic, negative, have made her feel like she cant do anything right, ect.

I truely love my w and want to change my negative behaviors, we have a great time when we hang out, tons of chemistry, amazing frequent sex life...untill now that is. This happened before ahe became very detached and stayed away calling it a trial seperation, and i was able to change on my own, she came back but i didnt seek help in making the changes permanent...so inevitability i reverted to past bad behavioral patterns. Shes very skeptical and doesnt want to get hurt again. Weare still living together, sleeping in the same bed. She is gone most nights at a friends house. While im home with our 2 young kids.


----------



## Vinnydee (Jan 4, 2016)

I was like you until I saw a psychologist. Turns out that I was suffering from depression and general anxiety. Depression can cause anger outburst and negative thoughts. In fact i was compulsively thinking negative thought and could not stop thinking about them. A few prescriptions later I was a new man. My wife loves me to death and I wake up happy every day. Try it if you are serious about saving your marriage. I resisted at first but when my wife started drinking too much because my anger reminded her of her abusive father, I saw the light and sought medical help.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Shes very skeptical and doesnt want to get hurt again. We are still living together, sleeping in the same bed. *She is gone most nights at a friends house.* While im home with our 2 young kids.


Ummm... time to pull out your detective gear.

Gone 'til 5AM? At a "friend's house"??

The friend is a male. She is having an affair.

Btw... her comment about "not wanting to get hurt again" is cheater-speak for "I have moved on."

Time to dust off the old magnifying glass (and VAR, and cellphone records, and social media passwords)...


----------



## bluezone (Jan 7, 2012)

Sounds like you need counseling...are you willing to go get some help for yourself? You need to get to the root of your anger issues which may be causing the other negative stuff. 

First of all, if your wife is working nights do you work days? Who watches kids during the day? Having 2 young kids can be very stressful on a marriage, in addition to you and her being on different work schedules.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Ive come to terms with the fact that she may be having an affair, her friend is a girl, and she assures me shes sleeping on the couch, but i know that doesnt mean much, i dont want to pursue her and push her farther away, at this point i know i need to make lasting changes if i want to keep this family together. Ive been working on anger management techniques, and focusing on seeing the positive in every situation. 

@ Vinny thanks for the advice i will seek medical treatment options when i am financially able


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Im not an overly angry person, im very serious but am letting myself relax and laugh because i can feel the effects on my health. So far ive been reading self help books on dealing with anger, and so far so good, i have learned to recognize my symptoms of anger and do somethibg to divert it befor i explode like breathing exercizes, or changing my way of thinking. I also have let go of the mentality that i have to be right


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Ive come to terms with the fact that she may be having an affair, her friend is a girl, and she assures me shes sleeping on the couch, but i know that doesnt mean much, i dont want to pursue her and push her farther away, at this point i know i need to make lasting changes if i want to keep this family together. Ive been working on anger management techniques, and focusing on seeing the positive in every situation.
> 
> @ Vinny thanks for the advice i will seek medical treatment options when i am financially able


If she's having an affair, you can make all the changes you want. 

It won't make a difference.

If you've come to terms with the possibiliy of an affair and you are not going to do anything about it then you need to come to terms with her being gone for good.

Take a look at this: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html


----------



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

Even if it is, as some are suggesting, an affair, you personally will benefit no matter what from getting your anger issues under control. 
I can attest to how divisive such a simple thing as not knowing how to not let angry feeling explode (even with no violence) can wreak havoc in a family.
Whether or not it's too late for the relationship with your wife (and if you're both willing it's never too late to start again) you have children who need a calm father.
Especially if you end up going through a divorce. I don't wish that on you, or anyone, but I'm just wanting to say that what you're doing to learn to handle your anger is commendable and admirable regardless of what happens to your marriage.

Of course when it comes down to it, if you and your wife begin to reconcile it will be important to know everything that has happened in the interim or you will always wonder and it will eat at you. 
Unless you're just not that type. (But most humans are.)

Keep working on yourself and then your marriage if she will take you back.

Stay humble.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you all for the advice so far, it is always good to hear anothers perspective, i know that an affair os possible and most likely probable. She had an affair the last time this happened which was very similar to what is going on now when my oldest was 2 and now my youngest is 2...we moved past it i forgave her, asked the questions i needed to know and moved on. But my behavioral patterns reverted back to the old ways, i dont know if this is some late blooming post partum depression she is going through or what...all i know is she is gone most nights. When she is here i will keep my distance, but she will come into the room im in and we engage in light talk like the old days seems to be going well when we are together which is totally on her terms at this point. I dont engage her behavior and have taken on a stance of indifference. I love her and want nothing more than for her to want to come back to this family. I am not cold or distant, ive just backed off as much as possible with 2 kids. I work days and she works days but can take the kids to work with her, and there is a small overlap from the time i get off work and her going to her night job. But she has no where else to go because of financial constraints so she stays at female friends house most nights. Im just working on myself at this point and trying to genuinely change for me and my kids.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you tigerlilly, im defiantly trying. And improving, i just need to make the changes permanent this time, its the day to day stresses that get to me


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thank you all for the advice so far, it is always good to hear anothers perspective, i know that an affair os possible and most likely probable. *She had an affair the last time this happened* which was very similar to what is going on now when my oldest was 2 and now my youngest is 2...we moved past it i forgave her, asked the questions i needed to know and moved on. But my behavioral patterns reverted back to the old ways, i dont know if this is some late blooming post partum depression she is going through or what...all i know is she is gone most nights. When she is here i will keep my distance, but she will come into the room im in and we engage in light talk like the old days seems to be going well when we are together which is totally on her terms at this point. I dont engage her behavior and have taken on a stance of indifference. I love her and want nothing more than for her to want to come back to this family. I am not cold or distant, ive just backed off as much as possible with 2 kids. I work days and she works days but can take the kids to work with her, and there is a small overlap from the time i get off work and her going to her night job. But she has no where else to go because of financial constraints so she stays at female friends house most nights. Im just working on myself at this point and trying to genuinely change for me and my kids.


Soooo. You know the score. You do realize...that everytime you let her off the hook -she loses more respect for you. Keep letting her live and do whatever without consequences...and you will have proved yourself a doormat. 

want to make her wake the hell up. Divorce papers. Boom. Reality


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Isnt there some other option to set boundaries, i know im mostly at fault here and i dont want to divorce even if shes been unfaithful. I know she still loves me but doesnt trust me at the moment. I can see it in the way she looks at me.i feel like serving her with divirce papers would be pulling the trigger on the marriage.


----------



## scatty (Mar 15, 2013)

Read "Surviving An affair" and check out the marriage builders website. What steps has she taken to ensure an affair never happens again? If nothing, then look for a repeat. SHE doesn't trust YOU? Well, you can benefit from reading his other books "His Needs, Her Needs" and LoveBusters to rid the relationship of destruction. To set a boundary is for you- as in, if you do not want to work on the marriage, I will file for divorce. Or "If you come home at 5 am plan on sleeping on the sofa"
Good luck!!!


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Scatty thank you for the advice, ive been to the marriage builders website, lots of good info there. I will read those books when i get the chance, i am currently reading love must be tough, and divorce buster...she is a very optomistic and loving woman, she doesnt trust me in the fact that i can change my destructive behaviors...shes pulling away from everything right now just since christmas shes lost 5 people very close to her to deaths, and we are in a financial rut have been for years despite having 3 incomes, all these stresses plus my irrational way of dealing with problems has eroded her. Im not the victim here she is. Not saying she is without fault but ive changed her persona with my negative thoughts and actions...im doing what i can to change those aspects of myself to better me and my family. It took a long time to get here and its a long road back. Im not bitter or resentful of her behavior. Im not excusing it but i know all too well what part ive played in this. In a way this trial seperation has been a blessing its allowed me to become more self reliant and a more hands on responsible parent to our wonderful children. I really just want to have the chance to make good on my vows to love and cherish her till death do us part. And will continue to fight tooh and nail till the end


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Sandman2016 said:


> Isnt there some other option to set boundaries, i know im mostly at fault here and i dont want to divorce even if shes been unfaithful. I know she still loves me but doesnt trust me at the moment. I can see it in the way she looks at me.i feel like serving her with divirce papers would be pulling the trigger on the marriage.


Saving a marriage involving infidelity and saving one with built up resentments/problems need to be handled different ways. If she is having an affair your going to fall into all the classic traps accepting all the blame etc. 

Your trying to win her back right now doing that while a person is having an affair just feeds the affair fog, empowering them. Do some investigating before you jump on the sword taking all the blame.

Don't bother asking her, your probably not going to get a truthful answer.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

What technique would you suggest to confirm the affair, she always has her phone and sees whomever it would be with on a regular basis im assuming.


----------



## happy as a clam (Jan 5, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> *What technique would you suggest to confirm the affair, *she always has her phone and sees whomever it would be with on a regular basis im assuming.


Here ya' go...

http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/209754-standard-evidence-post.html

Also, if your wife has an iPhone (or any kind of Smartphone for that matter) reach out to user @GusPolinski. He is the resident phone guru and can offer a boatload of tips.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Happilymarried25 (Mar 19, 2014)

She needs to stay at your house at night not at her "friends" She is married and a Mom and both you and her children need her. She is just trying to run away from her problems. You also need to find a way that she isn't working at night. She is at work all day and night, you two don't have any time together. There is no way you can work on your marriage with that schedule. Meanwhile keep working on yourself. Don't just blame yourself for your marriage problems, she has a part in it too.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Scatty thank you for the advice, ive been to the marriage builders website, lots of good info there. I will read those books when i get the chance, i am currently reading love must be tough, and divorce buster...she is a very optomistic and loving woman, she doesnt trust me in the fact that i can change my destructive behaviors...shes pulling away from everything right now just since christmas shes lost 5 people very close to her to deaths, and we are in a financial rut have been for years despite having 3 incomes, all these stresses plus my irrational way of dealing with problems has eroded her. Im not the victim here she is. Not saying she is without fault but ive changed her persona with my negative thoughts and actions...im doing what i can to change those aspects of myself to better me and my family. It took a long time to get here and its a long road back. Im not bitter or resentful of her behavior. Im not excusing it but i know all too well what part ive played in this. In a way this trial seperation has been a blessing its allowed me to become more self reliant and a more hands on responsible parent to our wonderful children. I really just want to have the chance to make good on my vows to love and cherish her till death do us part. And will continue to fight tooh and nail till the end


Sandman, if you've looked around even a little on TAM I'm sure you've read about "scripts".

Cheaters almost always behave the same way. Do and say the same things. Over and over and over again we see it.

Well, doormat-nice guy-betrayed spouses follow a script too. And everything I read from you follows this script. 

Others here have recommended a lot of really great books for you to read and I agree. I think you need to start with No More Mr Nice Guy.

You have two separate issues here. Your doormat behavior and her apparent infidelity. They are not the same issue but need to be worked on concurrently. 

You can work on yourself while at the same time enforce boundaries.

If you try to win her back by becoming "a better man" you are destined for disappointment. Covert contracts will destroy your confidence and make your wife feel manipulated pushing her further and further away.


----------



## naiveonedave (Jan 9, 2014)

why are you willing to put up with adultery? 2nd time should = D.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I dont want to be the doormat, everytime i look at my kids i feel like i need to wait it out for them. They need their family. I am so confused at what to do at this point, some days i have strength and patience, other days in so frustrated and hopeless that i want to call it quits. But i feel like i need to try to save this family 100% before i call it quits for the sake of my children


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> I dont want to be the doormat, everytime i look at my kids i feel like i need to wait it out for them. They need their family. I am so confused at what to do at this point, some days i have strength and patience, other days in so frustrated and hopeless that i want to call it quits. But i feel like i need to try to save this family 100% before i call it quits for the sake of my children


You cannot save your family on your own. 

You both have to be willing and right now she is not.

You are setting an example to your kids. What do you want them to see?


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

When people show you who they are, believe them.

She's a serial cheater.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

ReturntoZero said:


> When people show you who they are, believe them.
> 
> She's a serial cheater.


And he's an abusive ahole

But he's trying not to be even though he's shown her who he is and has reinforced it by reverting back after she trusted him.

In this way I believe OP and W have to dig deep down and REALLY want to try to save this marriage.

OP she has to move back home if your marriage is to be saved. You should tell her that - "if you want to save this marriage you have to move back as a starting measure. Our marriage can't be saved without that first step"

But also tell her your part. "To save this marriage I have to attend .... And do ... as a starting point. "

"I've started already and I need to know if you are going to act to save the marriage from your part."

One important thing - in your list don't say all the changes you need - just what you're doing to start. The reason is you have more to do but so does she, and you can coordinate your "self help program" as a team. For example, she will have to have total transparency - password, email, phone. That will be as hard for her as you sticking to your program. So that's why I say start with the basics each.

If she won't it may not matter what's going on with her - she may not want the marriage back.

In that case work on you for you and the kids. But also let her know you don't condone infidelity while married. Period. Because when you are better she may come back and you will have wanted to have warned her to not be unfaithful because you probably won't want her back if she's been unfaithful again.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Ok, Sandman...

Can you give us some examples of your abusive behavior?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sandman2016 said:


> Isnt there some other option to set boundaries, i know im mostly at fault here and i dont want to divorce even if shes been unfaithful. I know she still loves me but doesnt trust me at the moment. I can see it in the way she looks at me.i feel like serving her with divirce papers would be pulling the trigger on the marriage.


Accept your faults, go get counseling and quit saying her affair(s) are all your fault. She punished you with another man's penis, you try to fix yourself and when it happens again the cycle stars over.

Go get help for your anger issues for YOURSELF not the marriage.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I would yell when angry, had a herd time letting go of something that made me upset, so i would stay mad for long periods, and had an overall negative attitude, she is a really silly personality and im mostly serious. It is the negativity that she cant do.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> I would yell when angry, had a herd time letting go of something that made me upset, so i would stay mad for long periods, and had an overall negative attitude, she is a really silly personality and im mostly serious. It is the negativity that she cant do.



What types of things made you angry?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Day to day stuff... work, money issues, kids misbehaving, general stress, the problem is how i would handle it, she frequently used to tell me after i yelled about whatever was bothering me that i ruined her mood. I come from a family where my mother used to have the last word and i picked up on that young and my desire to be right, i couldnt let things go, i also over react to small things and over generalize things using "never" and "always". General overall grumpiness sometimes, physical ailments played a part in it have a lack of energy sometimes so even simple tasks seem daunting. I think shes just beyond fed up with all these negetive emotions...as am i


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Ive been unusually stressed in the months leading up to her calling for trial seperation, my job was having layoffs went from 100+employees to 24 in 2 months so i never knew if i was going to have a job tomorrow...that played a huge role in the downward spiral worrying because of her health problems my insurance would no longer be there for her...


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

So you know you are on thin ice with her and are afraid if you call her on her own BS it will all be over.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Actually yes thats where im at right now


----------



## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> She had an affair the last time this happened.


What the eff.

At least get your kids DNA tested.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Nobody in my family has ever divorced parents, grand parents, aunts and uncles all together some after 60 years of marriage, where her mom has been divorced twice and has countless divorces in her family. Im terrified of the prospect of my kids growing up in a "broken family"


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

The kids are definately mine look just like me and my side of the family...the last affair i am speaking about was mearly a 1 night stand that the OM confessed to me out of guilt


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> The kids are definately mine look just like me and my side of the family...the last affair i am speaking about was mearly a 1 night stand that the OM confessed to me out of guilt


That's even worse because she didn't come forward.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I know but i was able to move past it so thats water under the bridge


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Im having an extremely difficult time learning to be a single parent to 2, my 2yo just spilled juice on the 6yo homework, i didnt get mad, but im feeling so disconnected from everything right now i dont know how to cope


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Nobody in my family has ever divorced parents, grand parents, aunts and uncles all together some after 60 years of marriage, where her mom has been divorced twice and has countless divorces in her family. *Im terrified of the prospect of my kids growing up in a "broken family"*


Is your wife aware of this?


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Yes ive told her, she hasnt pushed for or mentioned a divorce yet...when we see eachother we are able to get along. But she has really withdrawn from me and the kids. I suspect she may be having some real mental difficulties right now. It seems like she just cant be present at home at the moment


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Too many similarities between last trial seperation and this one...

1.childrens ages both were 2 when this happens
2.behavioral changes, drinking alot and not coming home
3.time of the year dec- mar (last time) this time started in dec
4.shirking motherly duties and missing work more


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

To be clear you rug swept the last affair. You don't know that it was only one time.

Spouses pull away to protect themselves.

But W in particular pull away when they're having an affair. They replace you with someone else and direct their emotions and thought on them. They even stop acting like a mother in some cases and are wrapped up in the other man.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I dont know


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Sandman2016 said:


> The kids are definately mine look just like me and my side of the family...the last affair i am speaking about was mearly a 1 night stand that the OM confessed to me out of guilt


Woah woah woah woah woah WTF?

The OM, not your wife, confessed and that is how you found out? Go get counseling and get out of this relationship.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I dont want out of this relationship most people are just telling me shes no good and to jump ship. My kids deserve better than that. I can rise above most things. Im resilient and strong. Where i come from if its broken we fix it not trash it... last time i had a gut feeling something was up...this time no gut feeling...i am intuitive


----------



## honcho (Oct 5, 2013)

Sandman2016 said:


> I know but i was able to move past it so thats water under the bridge


You might have been able to move past the affair but she never did. She sounds as if she has been buying time much more so than repairing the damage in the marriage. Both of you are responsible for the state of the marriage. She has plenty of mess she needs to own in this too.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> I dont want out of this relationship most people are just telling me shes no good and to jump ship. My kids deserve better than that. I can rise above most things. Im resilient and strong. Where i come from if its broken we fix it not trash it... last time i had a gut feeling something was up...this time no gut feeling...i am intuitive


I didn't read that.

You are being defensive. Of course you want to fix "it". The problem is you can only fix yourself. You can't fix your marriage.

If you are relying on gut feelings, read several threads on infidelity here. You will find you aren't alone in relying on your gut, but you'll also find a lot of people who were seriously blindsided. Hurt dude walked in on his fiancé in bed with his best friend 2 weeks before his wedding. He came home early. Suspected nothing. Tons more stories like this.

I don't know what your W is doing but neither do you. If she's not at home trying to work on your marriage you can't fix it. If she is seeing someone, the longer you're in the dark, the less chance to get her back.

What your kids deserve is whole, complete, sober, loving, attentive parents. Sometimes that only happens when people divorce. Are you and W these things to the kids now? By your posts the answer is no.

I'm not saying to D or not. I'm saying don't use the kids as an excuse to stay in a broken marriage. And I'm saying get your wife to commit to coming home.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> I dont want out of this relationship most people are just telling me shes no good and to jump ship. My kids deserve better than that. I can rise above most things. Im resilient and strong. Where i come from if its broken we fix it not trash it... last time i had a gut feeling something was up...this time no gut feeling...i am intuitive



Sandman, your kids deserve better. 

Their mom cannot be that role model. You have to. 

You are not an abuser. 

You got angry. Everyone does. 

Amazed you are still rug-sweeping first affair. 

You still want her to be who she isn't. 

It's not going to happen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Voltaire2013 (Sep 22, 2013)

Morpheus,

What's your definition of an 'unbroken family?' Your current one does not sound healthy or desirable. You and your children deserve better. This does not necessarily mean divorce, but you have work to do either way.

Cheers,
V(13)



Sandman2016 said:


> Nobody in my family has ever divorced parents, grand parents, aunts and uncles all together some after 60 years of marriage, where her mom has been divorced twice and has countless divorces in her family. Im terrified of the prospect of my kids growing up in a "broken family"


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Im not whole and neither is she were both very broken at the moment, she spent 3 years proving to me that she was commited to me after the only affair, she admited she wanted me to leave her, but didnt have the gall to own it afterwards, she gave me 3 years of transperency and we were together all the time she always came strait home from work and called me all the time to let me know where she was and what was going on she made a mistake...i trust who she is. Call me naive but i have faith in her. I will do some digging into whats going on now for enlightenment. And to expose an affair if there is one. I dont believe there is, shes staying at her friends house because she cant afford to move out right now. Shes messed up, lots of people shes been close to have died since christmas, and her sisters murder has been haunting her for 11 years now. I know this woman and i love this woman. I dont really even know why ive been posting here. Just venting i guess.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

My parents are whole healthy individuals who have lots of experience in love...they are around my kids alot, and they always tell me we are great parents and our kids are genuinly happy, so we must be doing something right. Our home life minus the last 2 month has been great we are both very attentive parents, and are raising happy respectful children. Ive sheilded them from everything going on, and we never fight around them or where they can hear...there isnt any tension in the house its a loving home


----------



## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Sandman2016 said:


> Isnt there some other option to set boundaries, i know im mostly at fault here and i dont want to divorce even if shes been unfaithful. I know she still loves me but doesnt trust me at the moment. I can see it in the way she looks at me.i feel like serving her with divirce papers would be pulling the trigger on the marriage.


Get the book "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley. I think it will help a lot in your situation.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Im not whole and neither is she were both very broken at the moment, she spent 3 years proving to me that she was commited to me after the only affair, she admited she wanted me to leave her, but didnt have the gall to own it afterwards, she gave me 3 years of transperency and we were together all the time she always came strait home from work and called me all the time to let me know where she was and what was going on she made a mistake...i trust who she is. Call me naive but i have faith in her. I will do some digging into whats going on now for enlightenment. And to expose an affair if there is one. I dont believe there is, shes staying at her friends house because she cant afford to move out right now. Shes messed up, lots of people shes been close to have died since christmas, and her sisters murder has been haunting her for 11 years now. I know this woman and i love this woman. I dont really even know why ive been posting here. Just venting i guess.



How do you reconcile this with post #9 where you said an affair is probable?

Look, I'm not trying to convince you of one. I'm trying to help you read what you are seeing. 

Your own words say an affair is probable. 

Her actions show it to be likely. 

You exhibit tendencies of a "Nice Guy". 

You blame yourself for everything and dismiss her shortcomings. 

Take an honest assessment of you marriage. 

Open your eyes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

What i meant is its possible, i personally dont believe she is having one, but i dont know for sure so i will be digging. I am owning my own mistakes at the moment because im trying to focus on what i need to improve, i know she has alot of faults and things she needs to work on but what use is it to point those out if i cant fix her.i know it will be a long road ahead, i gave her tons of space for 6 weeks now, i will be telling her she needs to be home to be with our kids if nothing else, we both will have alot of work to do, but i believe GOD has a plan for us and i trust his word, i know it in my heart.but everyone is totally right when they said she needs to come home. I will be fine without her, but i would rather have her. I know my thoughts are all over the place i feel like im being pulled in many directions because of a gambit of emotions. Steel is its strongest after being forged in the fires of the crucible. This entire life is a test. I will not lose sight of my goal to become a better man with or without her


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Ceegee i do appreciate what youre doing for me, i know im bullheaded, your words are not falling on deaf ears. I have been taking stock of my marriage and the good times defiantly outweigh the bad. At least on my end


----------



## Popcorn2015 (Sep 10, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> The kids are definately mine look just like me and my side of the family...


Why do people say stuff like this. Maybe she banged a dude who looks like you. Maybe your kids look like a lot of people. A paternity test is hundred bucks and is 99.99% accurate.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Even if they did turn out to not be mine im the only dad theyve ever had...and i wouldnt give them up for anything so it wouldnt bennifit me


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

If i could upload pics youd see they look just like their daddy


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Me


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Even if they did turn out to not be mine im the only dad theyve ever had...and i wouldnt give them up for anything so it wouldnt bennifit me


The paternity test is not to sever the relationship between parent and child. It is ruling something out with a limited amount of effort.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> What i meant is its possible, i personally dont believe she is having one, but i dont know for sure so i will be digging. I am owning my own mistakes at the moment because im trying to focus on what i need to improve, i know she has alot of faults and things she needs to work on but what use is it to point those out if i cant fix her.i know it will be a long road ahead, i gave her tons of space for 6 weeks now, i will be telling her she needs to be home to be with our kids if nothing else, we both will have alot of work to do, but i believe GOD has a plan for us and i trust his word, i know it in my heart.but everyone is totally right when they said she needs to come home. I will be fine without her, but i would rather have her. I know my thoughts are all over the place i feel like im being pulled in many directions because of a gambit of emotions. Steel is its strongest after being forged in the fires of the crucible. This entire life is a test. I will not lose sight of my goal to become a better man with or without her



No, you can't make her do anything. 

The point is only you can say what is and what isn't acceptable to you in your marriage. 

Is cheating acceptable?

If not, what are the consequences?

So far there have been none except an angry husband. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## tigerlily99 (Nov 21, 2015)

@Sandman2016 
One thing I've seen on this site is that you have to be proactive about what advice is pertinent to your situation and what isn't. You know like the saying, eat the meat and spit out the bones?
Being open to others ideas and experiences is key though, even when it seems crazy at first.
That being said, there has been some good observations spoken here to help you be honest with yourself about where you are.
You see, you have compartmentalized your timeline because time moves slowly and you face each thing as it comes. But we all just heard a lot in the course of only a few posts.
The perspective that gives is valuable to you because these are facts. 
The fact is your wife should not be going outside the marriage to get her needs met. 
Another fact is, your anger issues and the differences in your personalities cause it to be difficult for her to feel emotionally 'safe' or understood or appreciated with you.

But that NEVER makes it ok to go outside of the marriage.

At this point you both have to be willing to move forward together and do some very hard work in order for this marriage to work.

Clearly YOU are wanting that and willing! But her? I don't know. Just don't give her any more time while you wait around for her to decide. Either she's working on the marriage: IN the marriage or she is NOT in the marriage. 
Right now, she is NOT in the marriage. Just a fact. 

So in order to get from point A to point B you need to find out where she stands. 

And continue as you are, bettering yourself. No matter what, as I mentioned before, and you clearly agree, that's important!!


----------



## synthetic (Jan 5, 2012)

Your wife is a cheater, and YOU are the one that wants to fix this marriage?! LOL!

You're angry because your wife is a cheater, not because there's something wrong with you.

Divorce the b1tch and live free of her betrayal. That's how you can overcome your anger.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you all for your input it really is helping me sift through things...but new development we rent a house and our lease is up we will be going our seperate ways for now, but she wants to live with the kids...if i let her keep the kids and i stay active in their lives durring this trial seperation, do i stand a chance at losing my kids for good if it goes to divorce...please help ive never been in anything close to this situation


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thank you all for your input it really is helping me sift through things...but new development we rent a house and our lease is up we will be going our seperate ways for now, but she wants to live with the kids...if i let her keep the kids and i stay active in their lives durring this trial seperation, do i stand a chance at losing my kids for good if it goes to divorce...please help ive never been in anything close to this situation


Maybe you should start a new thread titled something like "Separation - should I move out?". There are lots of people who know about this particular topic and have ideas about when you stay, getting a child custody agreement in place before the separation, etc. I would immediately talk to a lawyer to protect your assets and your relationship with your kids. Sounds to me like she wants D but is too afraid to make the move.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thanks ill do that


----------



## Tron (Jan 31, 2013)

Why is she a better custodial parent for the children than you? And why should they live with her from now on?

From what you are telling us, she is a mental basket case and out drinking most nights. That is not exhibiting good care of the kids. 

You are at home caring for them every night. 

Am I missing something?

Sounds like she wants your child support money so she can go spend it out drinking every night with her new boyfriend. I don't think I would be agreeable to that.

If she isn't interested in living separately in the same house as you then I would be shooting for a new apartment and 50/50 custody. You won't be hurting so bad for money that way. But, regardless, it might be time to start documenting your wife's craziness and sit down with an attorney to discuss your options.


----------



## MarriedDude (Jun 21, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thank you all for your input it really is helping me sift through things...but new development we rent a house and our lease is up we will be going our seperate ways for now, but *she wants to live with the kids*...if i let her keep the kids and i stay active in their lives durring this trial seperation, do i stand a chance at losing my kids for good if it goes to divorce...please help ive never been in anything close to this situation


The easy answer to her request...and it is a request...is No. 

at the most -you should attempt to negotiate to a 50/50 situation in terms of custody. Best for you and best for the kids. 

Have you talked to a lawyer yet?


----------



## JohnA (Jun 24, 2015)

Can you afford to stay on your own where you are currently ? Is it near your folks age do they want to help up? 

Do not give an inch on custody. Not one inch. Whatever you do, do not be a nice guy on this issue. She wants out bad, with or without the kids. 

Next: when you yelled was it ever personal ? As in: you stupid xxxx. Only an iidiot like you would say that?


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

No i never attack her personally, i we can not stay in this house, im going back to parents and shes going back to her parents temporarily, we worked ot out 50/50 custody, we live in texas where they dont recognize seperation, so we are still married and as long as we can agree on terms its up to us.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> No i never attack her personally, i we can not stay in this house, im going back to parents and shes going back to her parents temporarily, we worked ot out 50/50 custody, we live in texas where they dont recognize seperation, so we are still married and as long as we can agree on terms its up to us.



Texas is also a little behind the custody curve. They don't like 50/50. 

I recommend mediation or collaborative divorce if you can't get her to agree to 50/50. Make sure your attorney knows you won't settle for less. 

I settled and regret it everyday. Don't be like me. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you ceegee i will keep that in mind when the time comes


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

synthetic said:


> Your wife is a cheater, and YOU are the one that wants to fix this marriage?! LOL!
> 
> You're angry because your wife is a cheater, not because there's something wrong with you.
> 
> Divorce the b1tch and live free of her betrayal. That's how you can overcome your anger.


I believe his anger issues were there before the cheating.


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

@Sandman2016, I believe Texas is an at fault state, this may work in your favour with custody arrangements. Start getting your evidence together. Start protecting yourself and preparing for a future without her. But most importantly get help for your anger, that could effect child custody arrangements.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

always_hopefull said:


> I believe his anger issues were there before the cheating.



Which cheating episode are you speaking of?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

always_hopefull said:


> @Sandman2016, I believe Texas is an at fault state, this may work in your favour with custody arrangements. Start getting your evidence together. Start protecting yourself and preparing for a future without her. But most importantly get help for your anger, that could effect child custody arrangements.



Nope. 

But, it could favor you in the monetary settlement. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Ceegee said:


> Which cheating episode are you speaking of?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The first cheating episode. As the OP stated "This happened before ahe became very detached and stayed away calling it a trial seperation, and i was able to change on my own, she came back but i didnt seek help in making the changes permanent...so inevitability i reverted to past bad behavioral patterns." So she withdrew, cheated, they reconciled and his "past bad behavioural patterns" resurfaced. I interpret this as meaning, his anger issues were present prior to her cheating the first time.

Now she has withdrawn again and is possibly, most likely, having another affair. She is reluctant to reconcile again based on his history of anger issues.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

always_hopefull said:


> The first cheating episode. As the OP stated "This happened before ahe became very detached and stayed away calling it a trial seperation, and i was able to change on my own, she came back but i didnt seek help in making the changes permanent...so inevitability i reverted to past bad behavioral patterns." So she withdrew, cheated, they reconciled and his "past bad behavioural patterns" resurfaced. I interpret this as meaning, his anger issues were present prior to her cheating the first time.
> 
> Now she has withdrawn again and is possibly, most likely, having another affair. She is reluctant to reconcile again based on his history of anger issues.



If she believes he has an anger problem she needs to address it with him and help him work it out or divorce. 

This sounds an awful lot like blaming the anger for the cheating. 

This is what cheaters do. 

He got mad at things she was doing. He was not abusive. She didn't like that he was mad. Instead of owning it she blamed his anger. 

Sandman, don't believe for a minute that you made her cheat. It is NOT your fault. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you all, i am definately working on how i handle anger when it arises, i was always led to believe its ok to just let it out...seems just blowing up into a screaming match isnt healthy for personal relations though. Honestly i didnt know the first thing about being a good husband or that maintaining a relationship was something you had to conciously do...another big factor on my part is i got complacent and stopped dating her since the kids...she definitely has her faults, and issues that led me to get angry at times...but i didnt know how to fight fair. All this added up and led to where we are now. She chose to cheat i dont blame myself for that. I know better now about what the traits of a good husband and how to maintain a good solid relationship. I wont be making the same mistakes in my next relationship...at this point i dont know if i want to try again. I cant go through this again. As far as the monitary gains...there is nothing but a small debt, no assets to fight over. Like the song says "just give it away aint nothing in this house worth fighting over..."


----------



## always_hopefull (Aug 11, 2011)

Ceegee said:


> If she believes he has an anger problem she needs to address it with him and help him work it out or divorce.
> 
> This sounds an awful lot like blaming the anger for the cheating.
> 
> ...


What? I've never said his anger caused her to cheat! Actually if you read any of my posts I believe cheating is 110% the cheaters fault. I was merely pointing out his anger issues were not a result of her cheating because they were there "before" she cheated. Granted, they may have gotten worse, but they weren't a result of her infidelity.

Sandman still wants to work it out with his wife regardless of her cheating, but she is hesitant to return to the marriage because his changes in anger management were short lived. He needs help with his issues regardless of if he divorced his wife because they will follow him into his next relationship.

@Sandman, how long have you had anger issues? Is it anger where you would berate your wife, or just yell at people, were you ever physical, as in throwing things or slamming doors? When you were angry, who was it usual directed at? Did you guys ever get counseling to deal with her infidelity and your anger?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thank you all, i am definately working on how i handle anger when it arises, i was always led to believe its ok to just let it out...seems just blowing up into a screaming match isnt healthy for personal relations though. Honestly i didnt know the first thing about being a good husband or that maintaining a relationship was something you had to conciously do...another big factor on my part is i got complacent and stopped dating her since the kids...she definitely has her faults, and issues that led me to get angry at times...but i didnt know how to fight fair. All this added up and led to where we are now. She chose to cheat i dont blame myself for that. I know better now about what the traits of a good husband and how to maintain a good solid relationship. I wont be making the same mistakes in my next relationship...at this point i dont know if i want to try again. I cant go through this again. As far as the monitary gains...there is nothing but a small debt, no assets to fight over. Like the song says "just give it away aint nothing in this house worth fighting over..."


Anger is actually a SECONDARY emotion.

Do you know what that means?


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

She doesnt want to go to counceling, money has been a huge factor for our fighting...its always been tight so i would yell at her when we fought about stuff, i also turned everything into a competition, like how come i had to do the dishes the past 3 times, or im more tired because my work is more physical. Stupid stuff that just added up, never threw things, never threatened her, some of the things i would say while angry were out of line and couldnt be taken back even though i didnt mean them when i said it. She said countless times that i make her feel like she cant do anything right...just a real *******! I never really knew the damage i was doing to her. Im going to counseling by myself to work on my issues, but she doesnt want couples counceling at the moment...i was very emotionally abusive to her...i never realized it or wanted to be...cant change the past but id sure like to


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I never realized what an a-hole i really was till i had time to sit here and ponder...i really need help


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> I never realized what an a-hole i really was till i had time to sit here and ponder...i really need help


Brother, you are doing the typical thing of heaping all the blame on yourself.

It won't get you anywhere, nor will it fix it.

Yes, you need a therapist and likely a safe man to bounce your emotions off of... and get some constructive feedback. But, she has not acquitted herself well AT ALL.

She has shown you what she is. Believe her.

Yes, fix yourself, but do not keep this woman (or any woman) on some sort of pedestal. That is now what she wants and it won't help you one bit.


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

Yes, you really need help. I am not denying that at all. So, go get counseling. Then they wake up and realize"heck, I never cheated." Here's the thing, many men beat themselves up and then realize later "yeah, I wasn't perfect, but neither was she."


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

i really am commited to changing my abusive behavior and get professional help are there tools available that can really help me?


----------



## phillybeffandswiss (Jan 20, 2013)

If you want to change your mindset , yes. If you are changing for her or your marriage, no. This is why people fail when they go get help. They do it for others and not truly for themselves. Now, if you really believe you want to chnage this behavior go ahead. The byproduct will be how you please others.


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> i really am commited to changing my abusive behavior and get professional help are there tools available that can really help me?


Did you read what I wrote?

If you did, did you understand it?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman, look. 

Couples abuse each other. Yes, you probably abused her. She most definitely abused you with the affair. 

I just want you to realize that that does not mean you have to carry an abuser label around. Your abuse was not intentional not was it personal. 

We will get you through that. 

But first you need to lose the guilt. Drop the blame you are carrying. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

@ zero, yea i read what you wrote, i understan that putting a woman up on a pedistal will lower my self worth allowing them to take advantage of me and make me more likely to allow them to overstep my boundries... @ ceegee i will stop taking all the blame i just feel guilty right now because i was blindsided like so many others. I know deep down its not all my fault. I want to change for myself because im miserable in my everyday life it how i deal with issues, not just in my marriage. I want to be a happy positive person, not an angry pessimistic one anymore. I dont have many friends because of this also, so there is obviously something to it. I can tell my overall demenor tends to push people away, its quite lonely at times.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Yeah the negativity is a tough one because it can feed on itself. Glad you're getting help


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thank you all for your input it really is helping me sift through things...but new development we rent a house and our lease is up we will be going our seperate ways for now, but she wants to live with the kids...if i let her keep the kids and i stay active in their lives durring this trial seperation, do i stand a chance at losing my kids for good if it goes to divorce...please help ive never been in anything close to this situation



Where are you two with this?

What are your thoughts about custody? About how when to tell the kids?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

We are both moving out to our respective parents for awhile, she came up with the idea that we should do 50/50 custody because she said i am a great father and doesnt want to keep the kids away from me. We havent told the kids or discussed how to aproach doing so yet.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Last night we brought up some really painful memories that i had blocked from my mentality...on our wedding night she concieved our first child...at that time i was traumatized from a pregnancy scare when i was 17 to a girl i barely knew (she had the baby and it turned out not to be mine) well i flipped out when my wife confirmed she was pregnant and just wasnt happy about it at all...not like the movies where both are so joyous, i looked at the prospect of having a child at that time to be the end of life as i knew it. 10 weeks in her apendix had ruptured, i didnt think there was anything wrong with her shes been a bit of a hypochondriac so she drove herself to the hospital, after that i said i hoped she would have a miscarriage multiple times through the beginning of her pregnancy up untill we found out the sex and it became real to me then i embraced the fact i was gonna be a daddy. I was preasent for the birth and took off taking care of our son from day 1. Im so proud of my children and love them more than anything in this world, i didnt stay with her in the hospital overnight as we had a dog and i went to prepare the house for her and baby to come home...when she brought that all back up it cut me deep to my soul i feel so ahsamed that i was such a monster to her in her most desperate time of need. I wasnt there for her at all...i feel like such a bad person.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Last night we brought up some really painful memories that i had blocked from my mentality...on our wedding night she concieved our first child...at that time i was traumatized from a pregnancy scare when i was 17 to a girl i barely knew (she had the baby and it turned out not to be mine) well i flipped out when my wife confirmed she was pregnant and just wasnt happy about it at all...not like the movies where both are so joyous, i looked at the prospect of having a child at that time to be the end of life as i knew it. 10 weeks in her apendix had ruptured, i didnt think there was anything wrong with her shes been a bit of a hypochondriac so she drove herself to the hospital, after that i said i hoped she would have a miscarriage multiple times through the beginning of her pregnancy up untill we found out the sex and it became real to me then i embraced the fact i was gonna be a daddy. I was preasent for the birth and took off taking care of our son from day 1. Im so proud of my children and love them more than anything in this world, i didnt stay with her in the hospital overnight as we had a dog and i went to prepare the house for her and baby to come home...when she brought that all back up it cut me deep to my soul i feel so ahsamed that i was such a monster to her in her most desperate time of need. I wasnt there for her at all...i feel like such a bad person.


Have you begun your search for a good therapist?


----------



## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Ceegee said:


> If she's having an affair, you can make all the changes you want.
> 
> It won't make a difference.
> 
> If you've come to terms with the possibiliy of an affair and you are not going to do anything about it then you need to come to terms with her being gone for good.


*In which case, it's going to be far more beneficial for you to immediately consult with a good family attorney to start discussing your legal and parental custody rights!*
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Last night we brought up some really painful memories that i had blocked from my mentality...on our wedding night she concieved our first child...at that time i was traumatized from a pregnancy scare when i was 17 to a girl i barely knew (she had the baby and it turned out not to be mine) well i flipped out when my wife confirmed she was pregnant and just wasnt happy about it at all...not like the movies where both are so joyous, i looked at the prospect of having a child at that time to be the end of life as i knew it. 10 weeks in her apendix had ruptured, i didnt think there was anything wrong with her shes been a bit of a hypochondriac so she drove herself to the hospital, after that i said i hoped she would have a miscarriage multiple times through the beginning of her pregnancy up untill we found out the sex and it became real to me then i embraced the fact i was gonna be a daddy. I was preasent for the birth and took off taking care of our son from day 1. Im so proud of my children and love them more than anything in this world, i didnt stay with her in the hospital overnight as we had a dog and i went to prepare the house for her and baby to come home...when she brought that all back up it cut me deep to my soul i feel so ahsamed that i was such a monster to her in her most desperate time of need. I wasnt there for her at all...i feel like such a bad person.


That is pretty extreme, Sandman.

To be honest, I don't know how one recovers from that.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I dont expect for us to be able to repair this relationship in light of remembering how horrible i was atthat time im just praying to GOD that she can heal and someday forgive me


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

4 years after we had a 2nd child my beautiful daughter and i was much more supportive and there more for her emotionally, but i had completely repressed the memories of the 1st pregnancy


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> I dont expect for us to be able to repair this relationship in light of remembering how horrible i was atthat time im just praying to GOD that she can heal and someday forgive me


God is the only one who can soften her heart, but only He knows if it is His will.

But until then, you need to dig into why you were abusive, and improve yourself.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## BetrayedDad (Aug 8, 2013)

@Sandman2016

Why you so angry? STOP. Put down the sack of bricks your carrying around.

Find something... ANYTHING that gives you joy in your life and put your heart and soul into it.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Farside you are absolutely right, i plan on going to counciling for myself...ive been praying daily for her healing. Working on forgiving myself also...i never meant to hurt her but i did many times.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Betrayed i feel no anger at this point just extremely guilty and self loathing which isnt healthy. Im seeking professional help to work these issues out


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Keep praying, Sandman. Accept you are not in control. Accept God's will. 

Get into IC. Find out why your fear is so overwhelming. Those who seek control are trying to alleviate fear 99 times out of 100. What did you fear when your need to control so overwhelmed your want to love?

No matter what happens to your marriage, it will be what is best for you in the long run.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I will do that. I love her with all my heart and never ment to hurt her, my heart is so heavy i feel like i destroyed such a beautiful soul. Right now i wouldnt blame her for leaving me at all, the fact she stayed with me for so long after the fact is a true testiment to her inner beauty. I can never undo the hurt ive caused her, but i will spend a lifetime trying to build her back up. Even if we divorce we will still be in eachothers lives. I would take a bullet for her without even thinking about it.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Spend a lifetime being a better man for you. Period. Otherwise it will not stick, then you will resent her for the discomfort of change. 

Be a good man. For you. Don't go out of your way to point it out to her. It she still holds hope she will see it, because she will be looking for it.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thank you farside, i do want it for myself, the fact i could be that heartless disturbs be greatly...its only healing i want for her. I feel like i have broken her to the point of no repair, and i feel i have ruined her for the next person, for that i feel a huge amount of guilt. I want to help her heal in any way that i can for her sake. I could be happy knowing that she could be happy with or without me. I just want her to be able to move on and be happy.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Are you still speaking? I may have a suggestion.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Yes we are still on speaking terms, we still live together till the end of this month, she couldnt stay here last night after the talk because it brought much hurt back to the surface


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Okay. Here is what you need to tell her, and you need to MEAN IT. 
"Wife, I have been a terrible husband, but worse, I have been a terrible man. I will own that for the rest of my life. Just know that I don't want to be that person. I want to be better, and am just now figuring out how to do it. While I am going through this, I also understand I am not fit to be your husband. For this reason, and because I love you so much, I am going to let you go. I need the space to make myself better, and you need the space to heal from me hurting you. Just know I will always love you. I am sorry for all I have ever done to hurt you."

Then stop focusing on her and the relationship, and start focusing on you.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Okay i will...i need to focus on me, and being a great father to my kids thank you


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> Okay i will...i need to focus on me, and being a great father to my kids thank you


Exactly. And if it matters to her, she will notice.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I know it matters to her, because after she left last night she texted to let me know that she would try to come home but couldnt promise, so i told her to go somewhere safe and do what she needed to, and left the conversation at that, then today she texted me asking how the kids were so i told her good, sent some pictures and had her kids call her so she could talk to them...i know she is just extremely hurt right now


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

After the convorsation last night she could see that i had actually blocked thos horrific actions from my memory, and she said she wasnt trying to make me feel bad, i stopped her and told her that i truely am sorry, and that i cant change it because it was in the past, but i hope someday she can forgive me...she said i can forgive you, but i dont think i can forget. I owned the actions that caused her pain, and deeply regret hurting her, i dont expect her to ever forget what i did to her her, i just pray she can truely forgive me for her own sake. I will have to own what i did to this wonderful woman for the rest of my life, and never let anything like that happen again


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

All of that came from a place of fear, not to excuse it...but i was a stupid selfish scared child, i was afraid of being responsible for another life when i couldnt even take care of myself, hence me wanting a way out of my percieved predicament, i say precieved because my kids are the best blessing GOD ever gave me. And i was afraid i would never amount to the man my family needed me to be. If i could go back and do it all differently GOD knows i would. But thats not how it works so i need to count the blessings i still have in my life. Accept the things i can not change, and change that which i am able.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Have you expressed this vulnerability to her?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Not yet


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I think at this point i should start ic first and just leave her alone for right now she reopened scabbed wounds last night and now they are bleeding again so she is shut off from me at the moment, and i feel like if i just let her greave right now that would be a huge change from what i would have normally done in the past and press to make this better now. She has to go through the channels of healing. That was the first tkme we have discussed those events in 6 years. So hopefully she can work on beginning the healing process


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

You might want to journal these thoughts, writing in a way where it would be ok for her to read someday.

It might help her heal to know you really understand her pain.

IDK talk about this with an IC.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> I think at this point i should start ic first and just leave her alone for right now she reopened scabbed wounds last night and now they are bleeding again so she is shut off from me at the moment, and i feel like if i just let her greave right now that would be a huge change from what i would have normally done in the past and press to make this better now. She has to go through the channels of healing. That was the first tkme we have discussed those events in 6 years. So hopefully she can work on beginning the healing process


I agree. But don't let it sit too long.

She needs to see your vulnerability. She has seen your anger covering your fear for so long that I think showing her that side of you would be eye opening.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

The messed up thing is looking at it now, my fear of not being the man my family needed, led to me doing and saying things to case me to be the very thing i feared


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> The messed up thing is looking at it now, my fear of not being the man my family needed, led to me doing and saying things to case me to be the very thing i feared


Yep. Now ask yourself why you did it.

Why did you do it? I have my suspicions, but I want you to try to walk yourself through it.

You are a man of faith. The depth of that I do not know. It ties in to where you are now, and into my question of why.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Thats going to be a tough answer i will have to dig deep into the why. I know in doing so it is giving me an opportunity to learn from my mistakes and grow into the man i want to be because for too long ive been the man i never want to be again. I will dig deep and try to find an answer to your question, hopefully through prayer the holy spirit will guide me to the real reason i acted so cruel to my family


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

What you fear will lead you to your answer.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

There are alot of things i fear on a fundamental level, not mesuring up as a man, being unable to provide a secure life for my family, not being successful in my career and many more


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Thats going to be a tough answer i will have to dig deep into the why. I know in doing so it is giving me an opportunity to learn from my mistakes and grow into the man i want to be because for too long ive been the man i never want to be again. I will dig deep and try to find an answer to your question, hopefully through prayer the holy spirit will guide me to the real reason i acted so cruel to my family


To make real progress often requires a good therapist and a safe man.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> There are alot of things i fear on a fundamental level, not mesuring up as a man, being unable to provide a secure life for my family, not being successful in my career and many more


Control, Sandman.

You fear, so you try to control.

You need to read Hold On To Your N.U.T's by Wayne Levine. Rule number one: silence the little boy. That nagging, fear based voice that whispers insecurities into your ear. Dispatch him.

Get the book, Sandman.

And to your faith... If God is in control, why are you fearing the unknown? Read Romans 8:28.



Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> Control, Sandman.
> 
> You fear, so you try to control.
> 
> ...


He needs to love himself, and to feel loved, far.


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

jld said:


> He needs to love himself, and to feel loved, far.


I agree. But his fear is preventing it. When one is stuck in fight/flight anxiety, it is hard to ponder the finer aspects of loving oneself.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

farsidejunky said:


> I agree. But his fear is preventing it. When one is stuck in fight/flight anxiety, it is hard to ponder the finer aspects of loving oneself.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


It would help if someone could love him and calm his fears.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I will get that book, i defiantly fear not being in control. I need to learn to trust in GODs will for me. "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love GOD, to them who are the called acording to HIS purpose." What i get from that is trust in GOD'S will for our lives and trust that his will is for our good. And as far as theropy goes i am definitely looking into that as soon as money allows


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

It has helped me immensely to know that altough my transgressions were against my wife and hers against me, we have both sinned against the LORD, and through his grace i am forgiven. That helps me forgiv myself and not to wallow in self pity. Which i believe will help my healing and help in the changes i am wanting to make


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

jld said:


> It would help if someone could love him and calm his fears.


Sure it would. But, no one will unless he does it first.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Love myself?...thats gonna be a tough one, i havent loved myself since i was 6yo, im now 31


----------



## jorgegene (May 26, 2012)

don't love yourself for what you have done or haven't done.

love your self for the good that is within you and the potential you have (and we all have) to be a loving and giving human being created in the image of God.

there is tremendous power within us to love, no matter who we are.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Love myself?...thats gonna be a tough one, i havent loved myself since i was 6yo, im now 31


If you don't love yourself you are cheating your significant other out of their love for you. You are making them dump their love and emotions down the drain. If you can't accept yourself, do you really think you can accept the love of others?

I think self pity and self loathing is also very selfish and unfair to others. Just keep that in mind when you're unable to do this only for yourself.

It's ironic - I think people in your state - who need to do this for yourselves - probably will only do it when you finally realize you're hurting others by hurting yourself.


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Here is a link you may appreciate, Sandman:

Reconciliation with a Hardened Wife

I have to say, it is rare to find a man on TAM that is as humble and willing to look at his own shortcomings as you are. The phrase, "a man after God's own heart" comes to mind.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Sandman2016 said:


> Love myself?...thats gonna be a tough one, i havent loved myself since i was 6yo, im now 31


That's very specific which means you tie your self loathing to a specific event.

You really need to do whatever it takes to get involved with some sort of therapy.

Larger churches in your area would be a great start if you cannot afford IC.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Jorge, thank you for those insiteful words, i never though about loving myself for what i have to offer...i was hurt very badly as a child from a trusted friend and it led me to continue the cycle of hurt till about 13, after that point i just couldnt stand to look myself in the mirror, ive been struggling with that untill about 8 years ago i was able to face the fact that i wasnt to blame for what happened to me. But i still struggle to view myself in a good light.

But i am loyal to a fault, and would give what i have money or otherwise to someone who needs it, and i always stand up for what i believe in no matter the concequenses, ive always protected those who couldnt defend themselves, and honesty is my best quality. I can love these things about myself. So what you said will make it easier to focus on these things.

Jld thank you for the link and your kind words.

Ceegee i agree i am in need of major counciling to help me forgive myself and the people who have hurt me and stole my childhood from me.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

Check your PM's. 

I sent you a link for church groups in your area that may offer you a good start. 

If you don't find a support group that sounds appealing let me know and I'll contact someone to get you what you need. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## wmn1 (Aug 27, 2014)

an affair is never the way to address marital problems. Your blaming yourself for everything justifies her affair in her eyes and in yours and makes it easier for her to cheat. She has cheated before and with this going, will do so again. She's also causing damage to the family/your kids.

IMO, your wife needs to grow up and either stay in the marriage and work on it or leave it but affairs/limbo is not the answer.

In the meantime, work on yourself


----------



## unbe (Dec 20, 2013)

Sandman,

A ton of good advice in just 10 pages...listen to these people. They know what they are talking about.

Also, get into IC asap. It makes all the difference In the world. 

You can't do this on your own!!!


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Jorge, thank you for those insiteful words, i never though about loving myself for what i have to offer...i was hurt very badly as a child from a trusted friend and it led me to continue the cycle of hurt till about 13, after that point i just couldnt stand to look myself in the mirror, ive been struggling with that untill about 8 years ago i was able to face the fact that i wasnt to blame for what happened to me. But i still struggle to view myself in a good light.
> 
> But i am loyal to a fault, and would give what i have money or otherwise to someone who needs it, and i always stand up for what i believe in no matter the concequenses, ive always protected those who couldnt defend themselves, and honesty is my best quality. I can love these things about myself. So what you said will make it easier to focus on these things.
> 
> ...


You will have to deal with this yourself before any adult relationship will work to your benefit.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I hate the Rollercoaster, yesterday was a good day, and today i feel like my heart is breaking all over again. Holding onto hope is torture...i think im going to file just so i can begin grieving and stop feeling hopeful then crushed all over again


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> I hate the Rollercoaster, yesterday was a good day, and today i feel like my heart is breaking all over again. Holding onto hope is torture...i think im going to file just so i can begin grieving and stop feeling hopeful then crushed all over again


What are you DOING for yourself?


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> What are you DOING for yourself?



Silence tells me nothing. 

Doesn't think he deserves anything for himself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Ceegee said:


> Silence tells me nothing.
> 
> Doesn't think he deserves anything for himself.
> 
> ...


I knew a guy like that once


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

ReturntoZero said:


> I knew a guy like that once



He woke up. 

Look at him now. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Ive just been working and playing with my kids, relaxing, watching funny movies, talking to friends, packing up my house...what are yalls thoughts on hiring a p.i. to investigate and affair as i have hit a wall with what im able to do for myself


----------



## ReturntoZero (Aug 31, 2015)

Sandman2016 said:


> Ive just been working and playing with my kids, relaxing, watching funny movies, talking to friends, packing up my house...what are yalls thoughts on hiring a p.i. to investigate and affair as i have hit a wall with what im able to do for myself


Likely worth it if you can afford it.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

It wouldnt be hard for them, ive never met the ow but my son has 5 times and tells me they hold eachother and hold hands...w sais she has no idea where hes getting these ideas from but swears they dont happen...i know 6 year olds have an imagination but not that vivid


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Why would you hire a PI? 

Let her go, Sandman. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## jld (Dec 1, 2013)

Has she left you for him? Have you talked to him or your mil?

If it has gotten to the point where you are considering something like a PI, I think it would be better, as far said, to just let her go. What would a PI be able to do for you? 

You cannot force her back. You can only be appealing enough to come back to.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I just want to know the truth, the lies and deception are eating me up


----------



## farsidejunky (Mar 19, 2014)

Sandman2016 said:


> I just want to know the truth, the lies and deception are eating me up


That you are strong enough to overcome as soon as you stop feeling sorry for yourself.

Get out of the victim chair.

Pray for God to give you peace in this, and for His will to be done.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I know you are right im having a hard time with doing that...


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Its so difficult to let go, i miss feeling love and affection, i miss hugging kissing, and just holding hands, watching our favorite shows while holding her, the smell of her hair, the warmth of her smile and the infectious sound of her laugh. All of our inside jokes everything about her...i know i should be angry, but im really grieving the loss of my best friend and lover


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sandman2016 said:


> I would let the stress from work turn into anger at her *when she would push my buttons*.


Ahh...so it's HER fault that you got mad.

No wonder she's pulling away from you.

The first step in making a real change is catching yourself every time you start to use the word "but" or when you blame the other person. I'm sorry I hit you, BUT you made me mad. See how that works? Negates the contrition or the the apology.


----------



## TheTruthHurts (Oct 1, 2015)

turnera said:


> Sandman2016 said:
> 
> 
> > I would let the stress from work turn into anger at her *when she would push my buttons*.
> ...


Actually it could be. Assuming she was filled with resentment, she could easily have tried to anger and annoy him.

Doesn't matter - she's gone and he's grieving and reflecting - I think this is as it should be.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Turnera my mom said the exact same thing to me the other day, because she heard me apologize to someone and then said but you did this this and this...good advice


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

An apology with the word 'but' is NOT an apology. It's an attempt to clear YOUR name, not to understand the other's pain.


----------



## Ceegee (Sep 9, 2012)

"Buts" show you precisely where you're allowing yourself to be controlled. That your fault not hers. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

Can eliminate buts but holding on to you N.U.T.s?


----------



## turnera (Jan 22, 2010)

Sandman2016 said:


> Can eliminate buts but holding on to you N.U.T.s?


It's an excellent book. Easy to read. Very fundamental but powerful, because it shows you how you can be a standup guy and put your family first but at the same time learn what YOU need in a marriage and hold firm to that - your N.U.T.s - nonnegotiable, unalterable terms.


----------



## Sandman2016 (Jan 27, 2016)

I just want to thank everyone who has been helping me with advice, im sorry it seemed like i wasnt taking it i was deep in denial about my current sitch ive started a new thread for anyone who is following


----------

