# How do you balance two careers and kids?



## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

If you and your spouse both work in careers that are fairly demanding, and have children, how do you balance it all? I am interested in seeing how other families make it work. 

This is a growing issue in my marriage and I have not been able to find a good solution. H and I both have demanding jobs, work full-time mostly 9-10 hr days and have little flexibility. It is the cause of a lot of problems in our lives, trying to figure out who gets to meet the demands of their career vs who has to sacrifice for the house and kids. We try to balance it but I think there is resentment there on both sides brewing. 

I often end up feeling like no one is happy, including myself, and it causes me a lot of anguish. I feel like I am trying to do too many things at once and not doing any of them well, yet it seems a "Sophie's Choice" when it comes to deciding where to cut back. 

Thanks.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

1st of all...there are some good things here.

1. Working puts you in a position of financial independence so that if something happens with your husband...death, divorce, illness...you can take care of your family.

2. You're teaching your children about both genders having a strong work ethic and having a sense of self-sufficiency.

3. You're helping your partner with the financial burden and not leaving it upon them to do it all and that helps to guarantee that the kids get to see BOTH parents. Not just the one who decides to not work.

I have a great deal of respect for women who are help with the financial burden in a home and who are financially independent and not relying on a man to take care of them. It puts you in a position of strength.

The downsides are managing your time.

So there are some enablers to make things easier that you can think about like:

- distance to work
- jobs with flexibility (ie, telecommuting, job sharing, flex time, etc)
- family that can help with family responsibilities
- hiring someone that can help with children responsibilities
- talking with other working moms to help each other
- being EXTREMELY organized

I think if you're both working extremely inflexible jobs...you should maybe have a talk about whether or not one of you can investigate getting a better arrangement. The longer you've been at your job, the easier the conversation is because they won't want to lose you so they'll often work with you to figure out a better solution.

The bottom line is that like every other problem in marriage, it requires the two of you to come together and work out a solution that is oriented to the best needs for both the individuals and the family. There's never a way to get around that...you have to talk and compromise or its not going to work.

One thing I can tell you as a working mom (and a serious non-morning person) is that I stay EXTREMELY organized. I do most of the work for the next day the day before. I have clothes ready and ironed, lunches made, lists of next day activities ready, etc. It helps a lot. I also keep my house very organized. I find its important to be able to find stuff quickly and to have a system for how things are organized.

I am a program manager by trade so I keep a detailed MS Project schedule on everything I do (which is overkill) but I think in general having a plan with your husband where duties are divided out helps a lot. He understands what he has to do...you understand what you have to do...and there's no ambiguity.

I also think some years are just more challenging than others but I can tell you that I'm soooo glad that I never quit working. So many women that I know have financial issues or are staying with useless men because they are in no position to leave due to financial dependence.

Good luck with figuring things out and congratulations for teaching your children about the value of having a great work ethic!

(By the way, I assumed you were female based on the Sophie's choice comment...regardless, same kudos apply)


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

I decided to step back with my career to be home with my son and picked up an evening/night time job(opposite hours of my husband). I didn't want to miss out on watching my son grow up, as he changes so much each day, learning new things. I am home with him during the day and then go to work after my husband gets home. If we didn't need the money, I would probably just quit altogether for the time being.

While I kind of missed it for a while, not doing the career I had wanted before, I feel great being home with my son. I love that little boy to bits. I learned that you can't "have it all" when it comes to career and family. It just doesn't seem to work, at least not when they are really young. When my son gets older, I'll go back to working in my career field. 

How old are your kids?


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## richie33 (Jul 20, 2012)

It's a juggling act that's for sure. I am a supervisor on a night tour and my wife works long days as a RN. Thankfully we have great child care to fill in the gaps. But it doesn't always works out. One parent has to do more of the heavy lifting and resentment does come into play. I don't have much advice other than hang in there.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Thanks for the replies everyone, keep them coming. 

"You can't have it all" - is a thought that runs through my mind when it comes to my own situation. 

However, we both need to work to pay the bills, and H expects me to continue to bring in the same salary, or more, than I currently earn. That gets rid of a lot of options for me...such as working part time or changing to a different non-professional job for example. Also, I enjoy my job and my career and if I leave, it will take me years to get back to where I currently am. I am in a management position and I have a staff and lots of competing projects that I work on, that require a lot of meetings and coordination. It's not that my bosses are inflexible, it's that I literally cannot meet the demands of my job without physically being there most of the time. Working from home is just beyond frustrating and impractical in the long term for me. 

My H has a professional degree and loves his job. I came into mine by accident, although I have a degree too, just not in the exact specialty that I am now working in. My impression is that he expects, as the man of the house, for his career to take priority and for me to handle all of the other logistics and burdens. It's not that he's said this, mind you. He does try to help. But when there's something that comes up, like a kid is sick, he automatically looks to me to take care of it. This is magnified times a thousand at the moment because one of our children just starting his first year of school which is putting a huge burden on our schedule, since school is only 6hrs a day and our work days are usually 10hrs a day. 

I think I am the only one who finds it difficult. My impression of him is that he is happy-go-lucky without a care in the world when he is at work, while I am constantly running in a thousand directions thinking about kids and school and my employees and deadlines and so on. As long as I keep bringing home the same paycheck he doesn't really care what I have to do.

I am never really sure what to do. I could scale back on my career - we would lose money - which would make H upset. Either by taking a lesser paying job or taking a cut back at my current job. Either way he's not happy with. We could increase our childcare - that would cost money - he's not happy with that idea. 

Right now he is working long days and loving it, I am working long days and pulling long nights at home still connected to my work while also trying to be there for the evening routine with my kids, homework, getting them ready for bed, feeding them, etc. I am burning out. He resents me that my career is demanding, I resent him that he never seems to really give a crap about my career or that I am actually accomplishing things there.


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## Fozzy (Jul 20, 2013)

My wife and I have both always worked full time (or nearly full time--my wife currently works 35 hrs). With 3 young kids, it's very difficult. We're in the middle of restructuring things financially so she can quit in the near future and try her hand at stay-at-home self employment. Between fuel/car savings, daycare savings after school, etc, we might be able to squeak it out. Both of us hate our careers, so I'm fully supporting "fully supporting". No point in both of us being miserable


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## ladymisato (Aug 5, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I could scale back on my career - we would lose money - which would make H upset. Either by taking a lesser paying job or taking a cut back at my current job.


Almost certainly, this is the right answer. That obviously requires cutting expenses which always seems harder than it is because we get so used to living a certain way.



> Either way he's not happy with. We could increase our childcare - that would cost money - he's not happy with that idea.


It may be that you are more sensitive to the needs of the family, wives usually are. Or it could be that he's blaming you, expecting you to work full-time and keep the home. That's very common.

In any case, this is probably a good place to start a conversation with your husband.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

One problem not mentioned yet - any attempt at convo with H is met with icy silence or confusion as he does not see a problem with the status quo. I am left to make a lot of these decisions on my own and try to find what is best for everyone as I do it.


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## commonsenseisn't (Aug 13, 2014)

If you get it figured out perfectly you could bottle it and sell it. I think you've gotten some good advise and I second the idea of keeping communication good with spouse. Good luck.


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## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

One solution: don't sleep. Don't ever get sick. Seriously. There are only 24 hours/day - and if you waste 8 of it getting sleep, how do you expect to get anything done?

My approach is to give up the fight to have it all. You can't have it all. I've been an at home mom for 21 years - youngest is now 15 - and my priorities are in this order: taking care of myself, my marriage, and my kids. Yes, sure, I am "vulnerable" if H dies or dumps me, but my work at home leaves him to focus on career - his work has flourished because of that. Thankfully, should we split - though I don't see that happening because I *do* take time and energy to tend our marriage - the law would recognize my efforts by awarding me half of our community (joint earned) property. Also, because he is successful - thanks in part to my support - he can afford to purchase decent life insurance to protect me and the kids should the unthinkable happen.

And my kids have benefited from the time and attention I give them - and that H gives them when he comes home from work. Even through teenage years - which can be trying for some - we made every effort to teach, guide, support - and back off when necessary. They had no need to rebel - we negotiated and discussed consequences of their choices. All that takes TIME. Parenting is not something you can outsource. When my dd got seriously ill - I was home to tend her and help her recover (that took almost 3 years.). Can't imagine doing any of that if I were pursuing a career.

We all have to take a hard look at our choices and do the cost-benefit 
analysis of our decisions. I can't imagine looking back and regretting the time I spent tending my family. The emotional rewards are enormous - even if I don't have an impressive 401k or stock portfolio.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

kag123 said:


> One problem not mentioned yet - any attempt at convo with H is met with icy silence or confusion as he does not see a problem with the status quo. I am left to make a lot of these decisions on my own and try to find what is best for everyone as I do it.


Of course he doesn't see any problem with the status quo. He likes the status quo. As you say, he is just doing his job, and leaving most everything else involving the kids and home to you. How nice for him. He has no desire to see this from your perspective because he'd then have to agree that it's unfair to you.

I think he needs to take over everything that you do at home and with the kids for a couple of weeks. Flip your roles. You work and do little else, while he has to juggle everything. After that little experiment is over, he might have a better understanding that BOTH of you have a problem on your hands.

He probably won't agree to trying that out. Which tells you everything you need to know about your husband, doesn't it?

He can't have his cake and eat it, too. He can't have the luxury of having you take care of everything while also working so that you have the income that he prefers to have. He also can't belittle your career while at the same time insisting on the money you bring in. He needs to hear that from you. Write it down and email it to him if he won't listen. And tell him that if he won't discuss this with you, then you'll have to make some decisions on your own and you will not spend a lot of time worrying about his perspective when you do.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I have a lot of respect for SAHM ...seriously. Unfortunately it's not an option for me due to money. 

My H chose a career path that he dearly loves, but that will never pay enough to support us on his salary alone. He also has over 100k in student loan debt from his two degrees.

Our salaries are 60/40. He is the 60 and holding steady at his current rate. I am the 40 and seeing increases year after year. Steadily catching up to him. The issue is that if one of us lost our job, we couldn't make it on one salary alone (and we live pretty frugally). I will always have to work. I don't mind it, I enjoy it. That's part of why it's so hard to think about leaving and cutting back. But as a good wife I feel that it is my duty to be the one to make the sacrifice however that plays out. I just hold a lot of resentment that he does not have the same sense of duty to do what is best for the family as a whole, and instead treats his career as the only thing that matters. Yet he wants me to continue to earn as much as I do currently knowing that his career can never max out at the salary that mine can. 

How do you solve that problem? I resent that he leaves me holding the bag to figure all of this out and stress over it while he gets to focus 100% of his energy on his career, who cares what I do as long as I bring home the money to keep us going. 

Maybe it's not fair or right for me to feel that way, but I do.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Also, when we had children we chose to move to a new area to be closer to family, in a good school district and closer to his then - job. The house we chose was perfect...same cost of living as the apartment we previously lived in, 5 miles from his job. I worked an hour away but it was worth it for the other great things for him and the family. 

I assumed - you know what they say about assuming - that he would be the helper when it came to eventual schooling as he was working 2 miles from the elementary school where our kids would attend. He worked for that company for 10 years. He had extra vacation time and other non pay benefits due to his seniority there. He had a flexible schedule and being so close he could work from home and even occasionally had clients meet at our house when he needed to be home so he didn't have to take actual time away from work. 

A year ago (the year before our son entered K) he came home one day and said he had a job interview. I didn't even know he had been looking for another job. He went to the interview and within less than a week from the time I knew of the desire to leave his 10 yr job he had a new job offer. Turns out he'd been looking for awhile but never told me. We "discussed" it for all of 10 mins and he took the job. 

He enjoys the new job and has a lot more room for growth there. I understand now why he took it. I was furious back then, now I have softened and I want to support what he wants to do for his career. There is more opportunity for him at the new place. Because I am also career minded I can understand his desire to move on to a place that will support his passion, even if it doesn't seem to make sense. It is the major reason why I have such a hard time thinking about leaving my own job even though now it is very inconvenient for the family as a whole. 

It still puts us in an impossible position because he now works 1 hr away too in the opposite direction of my job, and I am left to wonder why the F we moved here? Now that it's inconvenient for all of us. But the schools are great and being close to family is great and the amenities are great here. My kids have friends nearby. 

Still, he chose to do something without regard to the bigger picture. And I still suffer for it.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

Start by understanding that it took two people to make the kids and it takes two to raise them. Think of it as a business venture. Would you allow one partner to do the bare minimum while you get the responsibility of doing your share plus most of his? Of course not...

One thing to remember is, not everything has to be clean and shiny and homemade. Cut Time by learning crockpot meal, great take out places that serve healthy, kid friendly meals and digorno pizza night. 

Color code belongings and have baskets for each child. The key is organization. Invest in a label maker. At this stage, it can help teach reading skills plus condition your hubby to get with the program.

Yes, the lower wage earner should stay home if a child is sick. But, don't rule out a higher wage earner who has accumulated sick/vacation time. It boils down to, the least sacrifice to maintain the family unit.

You don't have to be Supermom, doing it all. He HAS to be a willing participant in his own children's lives. Don't let him off the hook being a part time father.

The kids need him to step up as much as you.


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## frusdil (Sep 5, 2013)

Nikita2270 said:


> 2. You're teaching your children about both genders having a strong work ethic...


SAHM's don't have a strong work ethic?? Huh? :scratchhead:


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

frusdil said:


> SAHM's don't have a strong work ethic?? Huh? :scratchhead:


This shouldn't turn into a thread about who works harder: a career mom vs a sahm.

Both positions are very demanding and are well worth the effort each puts into their responsibilities.

Op's problem is an unyielding husband. That can happen to a woman whether she works inside or outside the home.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I have a lot of respect for SAHM ...seriously. Unfortunately it's not an option for me due to money.
> 
> My H chose a career path that he dearly loves, but that will never pay enough to support us on his salary alone. He also has over 100k in student loan debt from his two degrees.
> 
> ...


After reading your subsequent posts....I realize that you don't have a time management problem....you have a marriage/communication problem.

The reason I'm saying this is because it really wouldn't matter what you did....work, stay home, work part-time...your husband would have an issue with what you're doing.

The only way this works...or anything works marriage-wise is if you both get on the same page.

Personally, if I had a husband like yours (and I did for 21 years)...there's no way I'd ever stop working because you very well might need your job.

Per the bolded statement in your quote, take my advice as someone who's been through it...be careful. My ex was the type of guy that expected me to work, take care of the kids, and believed all the housework was mine too. I spent years being the dutiful wife and good mom and sucking it all up. I became extremely resentful and lost all affection for him. You cannot do it alone and every time you do, you're not doing your marriage any favors.

We ended up divorced because I finally realized the mistakes I was making. I was very much at fault for not communicating my needs and by the time I wised up, it was too late. He refused to change or acknowledge that he was contributing to the problem.

These days I handle things with my partner very differently. We have 5 kids between us, although some are on their own, we have very demanding, successful careers and neither one of us could handle not being financially equal partners. So we communicate our needs a lot more clearly. We divide the duties better than I did in marriage and we figure stuff out together.

This is not a work vs SAH problem. Your husband has an expectation problem regardless of your work situation. And you are trying to suck it up rather than explain to him that you can't do it all. Eventually something is going to give and it very well be your marriage if you aren't careful. When someone treats you like your husband is treating you, you don't feel nutured, appreciated, or cared for and it will become a massive problem if you don't stop playing the martyr and demand you two work on a solution together.

Like you, I'd never give up my career. I could never be a financial dependent. I was raised to believe in self-sufficiency and you sound like you're the same way. I actually believe that you can have it all but you can't have it all alone. You need help, you need a partner working with you rather than making the bar even more impossible to reach.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

It's not that you can't "have" it all.

It's that you can't "do" it all.

What you are currently not "doing" is being a mother to your children. Teaching them about both parents having a strong work ethic is an insane rationale for working.

I would say that what should do is take a step up from from your current level and look at the big picture. Many things you need financially you don't really need. You don't need a specific home or car.

If you look at what your family truly needs, beyond finances, you have to figure out how to provide that as parents.

My advice to you is to make a budget of how it will all work if you quit your job or scale back dramatically, show it to your husband, take responsibility for managing the family finances, and then make it happen. Don't wait around for your (weak) husband's permission.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

My H & I both work full time. In my household, I am actually the breadwinner. My salary is 2.5x more than my H's. I work for the federal government so my family is under my job's benefits as well. We are also a 1 car family.

It's hard but we make it work. My office & my daughter's daycare are only 3 miles away from our home. My H's job is 16 miles away. My H takes the train to & from work, it just doesn't make sense for me to drive him in the opposite direction & use up all that gas.

I work a straight 8 hours, not a minute more or less. My H, on the other hand, can work upwards to 12 - 14 hours a day. So my evenings are practically like I am a single mom. I get home before H so I am left to tend a 3 year old while juggling cooking duties, dog duties, & cleaning duties. I will admit that I don't do a lot of deep cleaning during the week, I save that for the weekends.

My H knows better than to expect a **** & span house all the time. He doesn't help with cleaning the house all the time, sometimes but not always. However, he consistently makes sure the trash it out, house repairs are made, car is serviced, & any misc needs are met.

It is frustrating at times for me because I do the bulk of the child duties & household duties. Things are not 50/50 in my household, I would say more like 65/35. However, I do recognize that my H will put mine & our daughter's needs before his in a split second. I respect my H for the long hours he works daily, that's his desire to be able to provide even though I make significantly more than him. He is far from lazy & will also work side jobs to make extra money, even though we don't need it per se.

At times I feel like I am going to have a melt down. What I do in the couple of hours I am home before him with our daughter is a LOT. I remind myself that he is not playing around but working hard. I figure if I keep a positive outlook the negativity won't bring me down, that's how I roll.

It's hard, I have lost myself in all of this. I am now starting to do things for me again.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Until they went to school, my wife was stay at home mom. And we are extremely grateful and that time was really priceless.

Especially now that my wife started working at daycare.....the stuff she sees, is just appalling. And we are talking one of the best day care places in the area.

Also, even if she was to work, she wouldn't even be able to pay for daycare anyways (with 4 kids).

*0-5 are the hardest, but the best parenthood years.* Invest as much time as possible, AT ALL COST (we had to jeopardize a lot, but in the end it was worth it!)

Besides, why have kids if you are going to have other people raise them for you? 2-3 hours a day is NOT enough attention young child needs from their parent.


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## Omego (Apr 17, 2013)

Hicks said:


> It's not that you can't "have" it all.
> 
> It's that you can't "do" it all.
> 
> ...


:iagree: I couldn't do it all. I changed career paths (for a less prestigious one) and made lifestyle changes when the children were small. Sometimes i was unhappy about caregiver but how often does that happen it because I felt that I had given up a certain status. Most of the time, however, I was relieved that I could be around for my children. I felt fortunate that we could make it on one salary plus whatever income I could bring in on an occasional basis, at the time.

Looking back, I wouldn't really have changed a thing. This is just my experience. I have other friends who scaled back their hours, but maintained the same general level at their company. They didn't get any more promotions however. 

I just don't see how it's possible, as Hicks said, to succeed in doingeverything (childraising, caring for the home, maintaining a successful career). I suppose it is possible if you have an extremely compentent and trustworthy babysitter but I haven't had that kind of experience. I do know others who have.

Just my 2 cts.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Nikita2270 said:


> 1st of all...there are some good things here.
> 
> 1. Working puts you in a position of financial independence so that if something happens with your husband...death, divorce, illness...you can take care of your family.
> 
> ...


I wanted to take the time to go thru the replies I've been given and respond. 

I am also a PM by trade, so I understand schedules and organization and I, too, utilize it at home as well. The issue that I run into is that you can only organize and plan what is actually within your control. Adding my husband's work schedule and now our sons school schedule into the mix has been difficult to handle. 

Re: family that can help....This is kind of what we've leaned on in the past. I think we need to pull away from leaning on family now but my husband disagrees. My in laws have been taking care of our kids via my MILs in home daycare since they were Infants. We'd drop them off and pick them up every day and pay her as a reg customer would. She's getting older now and has slowly dropped all of her customers so now my kids are the only ones she watches. Problem is that she depends on our income now to survive with no other income coming in, and we cannot afford to pay her a full daycare fee while also paying for my son to attend some other aftercare that would be more compatible with his schooling. So, H's fix - all remedy was to ask his mom to come to our house in the afternoons to get son off the bus and babysit until I get home. 

But, it has been a nightmare. MIL has her quirks and one of them is that she is terrified to drive, so driving to our house (20 miles away) is a terror to her and when I get home she is a mess in full panic mode. I want to stop the arrangement and put son in other daycare so she doesn't have to come over anymore - it's too much for her. H doesn't want to pay MIL and for other day care too , but I can't bring myself to stop giving her money bc we are the only source of income she has and she's done a lot for us over the years. It feels right to support her. H wants me to arrange my work so that I can come home early enough to get him from the bus to save money, but I work 1.5 hrs away and would need to leave work everyday at 2p to get home in time which is pretty much impossible, even with with a very flexible schedule due to the nature of my job.


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## Wolf1974 (Feb 19, 2014)

My opinion you do what you have to do to put your family first. No matter what you think about your job, maybe an exception if your self employed, no one there really cares about you. Sure you can have friends but if you left tomorrow within a week you would be replaced. That's just the nature of work. No company loyalty and no employee loyalty anymore. 

I watched both of my parents work their entire lives to be downside and removed from their positions during the Great Recession and forced into early retirement. For all their hard and dedicated work they have very little now.

I vowed to do better and although I also have a highly demanding job I have purposely taken positions and declined promotions so I can spend more time with my kids and xwife before she left. My family comes first and my career is a means to an end for that family. 

Time is precious thing and one you can't get back. I have seen more people than I would like to have in their final moments in life. Most times they are telling me to tell their parents/husband/wife/kids they love them. In their final moments of life they think of their family not their job and boss.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Anonymous07 said:


> How old are your kids?


Kids are 4 and 5. My 5 yr old just entered K this year and that's what is throwing me for a loop with juggling the demands of the school schedule.

Also it makes me feel like absolute sh!T that every other set of parents we've met in K so far either have one stay at home parent or a parent with a flexible or PT job so that one parent is able to do things like volunteer at the school, take their kids to after school activities, etc. 

It also does not help I work in a male dominated industry as one of the few women in my company, so the men tend to be the breadwinners with their wives playing the support role. I get no leeway here as its a foreign concept to most of them that I would be the one needing to help with child issues....they all have spouses for that. I don't have a separate support person in my life so it is emotionally frustrating for me at work to feel singled out.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I am also a PM by trade, so I understand schedules and organization and I, too, utilize it at home as well. The issue that I run into is that you can only organize and plan what is actually within your control. Adding my husband's work schedule and now our sons school schedule into the mix has been difficult to handle.


I do NOT recommend taking PM approach to family management.

I'm a PM as well, and I tried this few times......it is WAY too much and extremely overwhelming.

Rule of thumb, one day at a time, do NOT plan out too far out as you will simply get overwhelmed and create WAY too much pressure for yourself.



Also, remember, raising a family is not an objective or a goal. What would be your goal to your project when it comes to family? 

Life is best lived at a leisure pace.

If I was to schedule out and "project manage" my family, the entire picture/future would just completely overwhelm me and I would rather just take myself out!!!

LMAO


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Also it makes me feel like absolute sh!T that every other set of parents we've met in K so far either have one stay at home parent or a parent with a flexible or PT job so that one parent is able to do things like volunteer at the school, take their kids to after school activities, etc.


The are doing it right....but it requires sacrifice. Ask yourself, what are YOU willing to sacrifice for your children/family?



kag123 said:


> It also does not help I work in a male dominated industry as one of the few women in my company, so the men tend to be the breadwinners with their wives playing the support role. I get no leeway here as its a foreign concept to most of them that I would be the one needing to help with child issues....they all have spouses for that. I don't have a separate support person in my life so it is emotionally frustrating for me at work to feel singled out.


Don't worry about any of that crap, it's irrelevant. EVERYONE has issues, regardless what they do or how they do it. 

It's part of life.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Fozzy said:


> My wife and I have both always worked full time (or nearly full time--my wife currently works 35 hrs). With 3 young kids, it's very difficult. We're in the middle of restructuring things financially so she can quit in the near future and try her hand at stay-at-home self employment. Between fuel/car savings, daycare savings after school, etc, we might be able to squeak it out. Both of us hate our careers, so I'm fully supporting "fully supporting". No point in both of us being miserable


Thanks.

I am not in the dark abt our finances...we both play an active role and have our fingers on the pulse of our financial situation day by day, so I am aware of our debts vs. Income and where we can cut back and where we can't. 

We have a lot of student loan debt with high payments and CC debt from college that sucks up a lot of our discretionary income. We don't do a lot of extras. We were frugal when we bought our house and bought small and kept our mortgage in line with our apartment cost , it is also one of the reasons we chose where we live bc the prices were in our range and we didn't want to be house poor. Moving is going to drive our costs up. I have never regretted our house purchase. We have one car paid off and one car that we bought used - a hybrid - for me to drive to work which gets 40mpg and has a minimal monthly payment. We pay daycare to my MIL which is a significant amount of money - see my previous post for those details. 

So, cutting back isn't really feasible. Getting a new job is, but one of the hardest things for me is I really like my current job and don't want to leave. If I hated it I feel that it would make the choice easier but I won't find an opportunity like the one I have now closer to home. My industry is a niche and we live far from the big city where those niche jobs are.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

So many problems of your own creation.

Putting your family first is the answer to them.

Your immediate family.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Hicks said:


> So many problems of your own creation.
> 
> Putting your family first is the answer to them.
> 
> Your immediate family.


What are the problems of my own creation? And, why are they mine and not also my husband's?


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## Rowan (Apr 3, 2012)

Can your son not take the bus to your MIL's house in the afternoons, rather than going home? That way, she wouldn't have to drive, you wouldn't have to pay two sitters, and either you or your husband could pick both children up on the way home in the evenings. 

OP, I think it's probably well past time to sit down with your husband and have a conversation about what it really takes to keep your house/lives running. It's not fair that he insist you work full time to bring in a salary he deems acceptable, but also insist that you do everything a SAHM would be doing. If he's not going to actively participate in being a partner in your marriage, then you're just going to have to make the decisions about what you can reasonably do and focus on those things. You cannot please a husband who thinks home and parenting are solely your responsibility but also expects you to bring in a salary equal to his own. So, stop trying. Stop being afraid to disappoint him or make him angry or resentful. Aren't you disappointed? Aren't you a little resentful? It doesn't sound like he's too worried about that. Maybe you need to be less worried about his reactions to you not being superwoman and just focus for a while on what you can reasonably manage to accomplish.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> So many problems of your own creation.
> 
> Putting your family first is the answer to them.
> 
> Your immediate family.


I agree, maybe this will help OP. 

This took me WAY too many years to figure out, wish my parents would've taught me.

Materialistic stuff (as in, new car every 3 years, keeping up with Joneses etc)> is not only worthless.....it's HARMFUL to you and your family. We spend MOST of our time working SO hard to obtain them. When we get these items, we waste even MORE of our time using these items, maintaining them etc......all while we ignore our loved ones.

Think about that for a bit OP.

I see SO many families parents chasing materialistic crap and keeping up with Joneses. For example, family few houses down has 3 kids (1,2 and 4)......both parents work so that they can have new cars every 3 years (they just got 2 new cars few weeks back).....all while they have 0 equity in their home.......

I give them 3-5 years before they REALLY regret this crap......

Our entire society is backwards, all they want to do is sell you **** and tell you how much you need this and that.

Reality is, you don't need ANYTHING but shelter/food (don't take it to the extreme of course).

Accept and remind yourself that all the materialistic crap you are buying/chasing is worthless.....cause in the end, it is.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Rowan said:


> Can your son not take the bus to your MIL's house in the afternoons, rather than going home? That way, she wouldn't have to drive, you wouldn't have to pay two sitters, and either you or your husband could pick both children up on the way home in the evenings.
> 
> OP, I think it's probably well past time to sit down with your husband and have a conversation about what it really takes to keep your house/lives running. It's not fair that he insist you work full time to bring in a salary he deems acceptable, but also insist that you do everything a SAHM would be doing. If he's not going to actively participate in being a partner in your marriage, then you're just going to have to make the decisions about what you can reasonably do and focus on those things. You cannot please a husband who thinks home and parenting are solely your responsibility but also expects you to bring in a salary equal to his own. So, stop trying. Stop being afraid to disappoint him or make him angry or resentful. Aren't you disappointed? Aren't you a little resentful? It doesn't sound like he's too worried about that. Maybe you need to be less worried about his reactions to you not being superwoman and just focus for a while on what you can reasonably manage to accomplish.


This wld be ideal but it doesn't work that way with the buses. She doesn't live in our school district so the bus doesn't run anywhere close to her house. The schools in her district are really bad so we don't want to send the kids there. 

I want to cut her out entirely and put him in a different aftercare so she isn't even involved in the pick up or coming to our house at all. It's the money that holds H back from agreement. 

Also, I have talked to my H many times, last night in fact. He thinks I am overreacting re: what we ask his mom to do and his stance is we pay her, she owes this to us now, let her be inconvenienced, you should go to work and not worry about her or the kids. It is true that I am the one ridden with guilt about making someone else be there for our kids and he sees no problem with it. 

He doesn't care in regards to where I work or what I do, I could be a cashier somewhere part time, as long as I bring home the same money. It ain't gonna work that way. I get so angry with him that I walk away from the convo because it doesn't go anywhere. He does not care that I put just as much sweat into my degree and building my career as he does and maybe I am not so willing to let it go. He would certainly never consider giving his up. 

We married right out of college before we had any of this stuff figured out. He got two fancy degrees that cost an arm and a leg without considering the impact it would have later in life when it was time to pay them off. He lived off of CC during college with no regard to eventually paying those off. I am his wife and now I contribute my salary to these debts that he accrued before we got together - I knew that would be the case when we married, but was naive about how much it would hang over us and impede our ability to move forward in life. 

Yes, I am angry and resentful and I try to make peace with it internally and move forward because a lot of these things from the past cannot be changed. 

He is very helpful when he is home with the kids and picking up a lions share of the housework. It's not like he sits on the couch and drinks beer all evening. I don't want to give that impression. He is good with money and responsible with making sure everything is paid and finding the best deals on things. He was not responsible in college and that still follows us but as I said I knew that when I married him. 

We also have a sordid past with a nice guy (the book version) vs. Overbearing wife dynamic in our marriage that has loomed over us. I have come to TAM a few yrs ago to understand and try to remedy this dynamic between us and read all the books and so on. One of the takeaways is that I have tried to give him space to make decisions and lead us without stomping all over him and taking the reigns. This is one of the attempts to do just that. I struggle with going back to the way things were where I take over and who cares what he thinks and letting him guide us while staying silent.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



DoF said:


> I agree, maybe this will help OP.
> 
> This took me WAY too many years to figure out, wish my parents would've taught me.
> 
> ...


I agree and feel that we do live our lives very minimally and truthfully always have. We do not play the game of keeping up with the Jones and don't have new or nice things. I coupon, our household items and clothing come from consignment and hand me downs. I cook all of our meals. I use Groupon and other sites for our outings. Our cars are old and we keep them until they die regardless of what they look like. H and I both have phones provided thru our work. I get it. I don't work for the frivolous reasons you mentioned. I work to keep us afloat and make sure we have food shelter and clothes on our backs. H does too. He is passionate about his work and takes pride in what he does. Problem is, so do I.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Wolf1974 said:


> My opinion you do what you have to do to put your family first. No matter what you think about your job, maybe an exception if your self employed, no one there really cares about you. Sure you can have friends but if you left tomorrow within a week you would be replaced. That's just the nature of work. No company loyalty and no employee loyalty anymore.
> 
> I watched both of my parents work their entire lives to be downside and removed from their positions during the Great Recession and forced into early retirement. For all their hard and dedicated work they have very little now.
> 
> ...


You are right that no one at work cares about you. 

I get that. 

It's hard because I get a lot of satisfaction from my job...it is truly the only thing in my life that is MINE. 

If there were another job I could walk into right now that I knew would pay me the same that was close to home, I'd do it.

I realize I am not going to have a choice in the matter and will have to change careers anyway to be able to manage our life better, but heck yea it's gonna take a toll on my relationship with my H. I am still harboring anger over his job move a year ago.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I agree and feel that we do live our lives very minimally and truthfully always have. We do not play the game of keeping up with the Jones and don't have new or nice things. I coupon, our household items and clothing come from consignment and hand me downs. I cook all of our meals. I use Groupon and other sites for our outings. Our cars are old and we keep them until they die regardless of what they look like. H and I both have phones provided thru our work. I get it. I don't work for the frivolous reasons you mentioned. I work to keep us afloat and make sure we have food shelter and clothes on our backs. H does too. He is passionate about his work and takes pride in what he does. Problem is, so do I.


Good to hear! Sounds good and sounds like you had that figured out long ago.

PS. Same here on everything you guys do/cars etc.

Sounds like you 2 need to figure out who keeps the job and who doesn't. Or somehow figure out a way to manage family with 2 jobs.

I would probably focus on one that has longest commute/longest hours/least travel.......assuming you want to head down that road of course.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I realize I am not going to have a choice in the matter and will have to change careers anyway to be able to manage our life better, but heck yea it's gonna take a toll on my relationship with my H. I am still harboring anger over his job move a year ago.


You should talk to him about this.

Also, remember, no work is temporary not permanent. When the youngest is 8-9 you can go back to full time and have oldest babysit for an hour or 2.

That's exactly what we are doing right now.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

kag123 said:


> It's hard because I get a lot of satisfaction from my job...it is truly the only thing in my life that is MINE.
> 
> .



This is where your thinking is off.

You have many roles in life. You are an individual. You are a mother. You are a wife. You are an employee. You are a member of this or that.

What are the most important roles you have? How much of your TIME, ENERGY and ATTENTION go into these roles? How much do you care about your success in any of these roles?

Further, you and your husband are a TEAM. Your entire family is a team. The two of you collectively divide up responsibilities so that the present and future needs of the family are met. Your goal as a mother/father team is the family's MUTUAL well being, happiness, and satisfaction in life.

To hear that you get satisfaction from your job, and that it is the only thing in life that is yours... Frankly that is sad to hear coming from a mother. People ignore the fact that raising good children and having a happy life produces more satisfaction than any other job on earth if you just decide that doing that is an important undertaking. Your goal should be collective, mutual happiness for everyone in the family BECAUSE they are part of the family that you and your husband create.

The self created problems I am referring to is that you and your husband are responsible for you MIL's well being, to the detriment of your family life. That is not proper priortization.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

It's amazing to me, DoF, that you actually believe the crap you wrote. It now takes two wage earners just to stay afloat. Having a $100K mortgage and two $20K cars is very modest. It seems to me, you're very adament that OP should quit HER job, lose valuable time in the workforce, lose skills and promotions just because she is a mom.

I don't see you advising any MAN to quit his job to stay home...


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Revamped said:


> It's amazing to me, DoF, that you actually believe the crap you wrote. It now takes two wage earners just to stay afloat. Having a $100K mortgage and two $20K cars is very modest. It seems to me, you're very adament that OP should quit HER job, lose valuable time in the workforce, lose skills and promotions just because she is a mom.
> 
> I don't see you advising any MAN to quit his job to stay home...



DO NOT tell me you can't be SAHP and raise a family with one income.

You are completely wrong. Do you know how I know? Cause we have been able to do this on SINGLE income in the most expensive state to live in.

I never said SHE should quit her job, I'm saying that they should consider one of them not working.

If they have to downside the house....do it......not go out as much...do it.

It comes down to priorities, as Hicks said.

I am a Husband first, father 2nd.......son 3rd......somewhere down the road I'm an employee (this is probably not on top 10).

OP and her husband clearly have their priorities wrong if job/career is even close to top 3.......

Please stop with the gender discrimination crap, doesn't really matter to me if she quits or he does. Whatever floats that boat.


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## Revamped (Jun 19, 2014)

DoF said:


> DO NOT tell me you can't be SAHP and raise a family with one income.
> 
> You are completely wrong. Do you know how I know? Cause we have been able to do this on SINGLE income in the most expensive state to live in.
> 
> ...


And that works for YOU. Not for everybody.

There is no reason why either one of them have to quit their job to stay home. It takes planning and scheduling and continuity and a HUSBAND who can contribute just as much to the family as the wife. 

I think YOU'RE wrong to have screwed up priorities to think a job/career wouldn't be one of the top priorities in Life. Ya can't live if there ain't no money coming in...


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Priorities...sure. 

Downsizing or mitigating expenses....at this time not a possibility. That includes one of us completely quitting to be a SAHP.

Here's something for the peanut gallery - H and I got pregnant twice, unplanned. Our kids came at a bad time when we were just getting married and starting to work and our college debts hit. They are a blessing but we would have waited much longer if we had the opportunity to choose a different time to have children. 

We are actually extremely blessed to have children at all as my H has a fertility problem and I was on BC at the time we conceived....Both times. 

Regardless those kids are here to suffer for what we didn't plan and we try to rectify that by working hard and living frugally and making intelligent financial decisions to the best of our ability. 

Despite our struggles we would be considered middle class. I have no idea how those in true poverty do it. I feel blessed that we have it as good as we do and I can only complain about my first world problems.


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## JustTired (Jan 22, 2012)

kag123,

I have been reading your responses and have a few thoughts/questions for you....

*Childcare/MIL:* It's obvious that your MIL gets distressed when it comes to driving. Which is clearly not healthy for her at all. How much do you actually pay her? The reason why I ask is because it sounds like she would be completely destitute without the money you all give her to take care of the kids. Does what you pay her _really_ keep her afloat? In your previous posts you don't have an issue helping your MIL financially & getting some more convenient child care for your kids. But, your H sounds like he doesn't want to give his mother any money unless she is actually doing something to "earn it".

This may be considered bad advice by others - If it were me, I would find other child care options & damn what my H feels. I would be very concerned for the safety of my children if the person in charge of their care while I am not around is afraid of driving. It seems that your MIL gets very distressed & anxious when it comes to driving, that type of anxiety can cause car accidents. I take absolutely *NO* chances with my daughter's safety...period. Plus, how is your MIL in her right mind when watching the kids if she is so distressed after driving? This is so unhealthy for your MIL.

As far as helping your MIL, is she aware that she can get help with food & medical care through her State's social service department? Is there other ways you can help your MIL? (buying her groceries, paying medical premiums, etc.) What other income does she have?

*Husband not respecting your career:*
I can relate to that. I work for the federal government in IT. My job is not a stressful one, nor is it very physical. My H's job is in a warehouse, it's a physical job & at times stressful. Because my H deems my job as "very relaxed", he often says things like "you don't work hard". It pisses me off at times because it is MY job that pays the bills around here, H's net pay helps out but that's about it. I could live off of my own salary with our current bills (including child care) just fine.

I sometimes think that it could be that your H wants to hear how important his job is to you. I know that my H used to put my job down a lot until I started "complimenting" (for lack of a better word) his job. I started acknowledging how hard he works there & slowly started noticing he wasn't putting my job down like he used to.

Regardless, what it sounds like to me is that your H doesn't even want to listen to your concerns (which I think are valid). It almost sounds like a power struggle.

In our household, I do make decisions with my H together. However, there are instances where I have to make a decision for my own sanity. On those rare occassions, I make those without him.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Priorities...sure.
> 
> Downsizing or mitigating expenses....at this time not a possibility. That includes one of us completely quitting to be a SAHP.
> 
> ...


Here is something for you.

1st kid at 19.....no careers or work

2 kids unplanned

We are at 4 now......

We did it with ONE income. When I first started back in 2000 I was making 30k a year......

You should know this as a PM, not much goes "according to plan".


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

JustTired said:


> *Husband not respecting your career:*
> I can relate to that. I work for the federal government in IT. My job is not a stressful one, nor is it very physical. My H's job is in a warehouse, it's a physical job & at times stressful. Because my H deems my job as "very relaxed", he often says things like "you don't work hard". It pisses me off at times because it is MY job that pays the bills around here, H's net pay helps out but that's about it. I could live off of my own salary with our current bills (including child care) just fine.


Some suggestions.......to tell him (although sounds like handled it nicely).

- harder you work, less you get paid
- his job is HIS choice, ask him what he is doing about career and betting himself/his situation. Everyone and their mother know that PHYSICAL labor pays little and is hard on the body, especially when you do it for 10.......20.....30+ years. It takes a toll.....in time.
- be careful about sharing details of your work. I know that at times my job might seem like a piece of cake (and at time it is) BUT there is PLENTY of times when it's hell and can drive your average person completely insane. Read: it's REALLY hard for none office person to relate to ANY of it.

I will admit that if I was to have a physical labor job, I would be a COMPLETELY different father and WAY LESS involved with my kids/activities (probably would be too tired to play sports etc after work).

But I would also do everything I can to get myself out of that situation. If there was one lesson my father taught me well was "work with your brain, not your body"

he learned the hard way.....


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

JustTired said:


> *Childcare/MIL:* It's obvious that your MIL gets distressed when it comes to driving. Which is clearly not healthy for her at all. How much do you actually pay her? The reason why I ask is because it sounds like she would be completely destitute without the money you all give her to take care of the kids. Does what you pay her _really_ keep her afloat? In your previous posts you don't have an issue helping your MIL financially & getting some more convenient child care for your kids. But, your H sounds like he doesn't want to give his mother any money unless she is actually doing something to "earn it".
> 
> This may be considered bad advice by others - If it were me, I would find other child care options & damn what my H feels. I would be very concerned for the safety of my children if the person in charge of their care while I am not around is afraid of driving. It seems that your MIL gets very distressed & anxious when it comes to driving, that type of anxiety can cause car accidents. I take absolutely *NO* chances with my daughter's safety...period. Plus, how is your MIL in her right mind when watching the kids if she is so distressed after driving? This is so unhealthy for your MIL.
> 
> As far as helping your MIL, is she aware that she can get help with food & medical care through her State's social service department? Is there other ways you can help your MIL? (buying her groceries, paying medical premiums, etc.) What other income does she have?


MIL was an in-home daycare provider and FIL works seasonally as a groundskeeper doing manual labor work (mowing, landscaping, etc.) As kids get older, they leave daycare...just the nature of the business...but she has refused for some reason that she will not tell us, to advertise for new customers. It's not really my business so I don't pry, but my opinion from observation is that she's just getting too [email protected] old for it. It's grueling work to run after all those kids and she's got bad knees and a bad back, bending over and picking up stuff, changing diapers, etc. It's a rough job. 

FIL is still working, but he is around 80yrs old now (20 years older than MIL) and it's absolutely amazing he still works, especially in a physically demanding job. His time in the workplace is limited. He gets SSI but has always worked odd jobs blue collar and has no retirement or savings. Just his SSI check. MIL is a few years away from receiving SSI, but in the same boat with no retirement and no savings. FIL makes about $9/hr and during the late fall and winter is laid off entirely until it's landscaping season again. 

We pay her around $1,000/month. It is her only income besides FIL SSI checks, the little bit of state money she gets for food subsidy for having her licensed daycare and claiming our two kids, and FIL's pittance from his landscaping job. 

My H grew up in poverty and his parents are blue collar and have no credentials beyond a HS diploma so have always worked odd jobs or daycare for income, with no retirement or health benefits. Now in their older age is when there is no future plan to help them and I feel that we should help them if we can. 

I also have emotional attachment to my in-laws because my parents are not close to us and don't take much of an interest in our kids lives. My parents both work (one now retired) high powered jobs, make good money and "keep up with the Joneses" as was mentioned. However they were very stingy when it came to giving me money and from a young age I worked for everything that was mine, including paying my own way through college and living on my own from a young age. My in-laws have been like a second set of parents to our kids and I have always been grateful for their relationship with my kids and how involved they want to be in their lives. I didn't have that myself growing up. I was a latchkey only-child with no extended family, and parents that I wasn't close to. So I often feel - however crazy it is - that I want to repay them for my gratitude at being so good to my children. They are giving my children what I wish MY parents would give them - sadly my parents are not very interested in having a relationship with their grandchildren. 



JustTired said:


> *Husband not respecting your career:*
> I can relate to that. I work for the federal government in IT. My job is not a stressful one, nor is it very physical. My H's job is in a warehouse, it's a physical job & at times stressful. Because my H deems my job as "very relaxed", he often says things like "you don't work hard". It pisses me off at times because it is MY job that pays the bills around here, H's net pay helps out but that's about it. I could live off of my own salary with our current bills (including child care) just fine.
> 
> I sometimes think that it could be that your H wants to hear how important his job is to you. I know that my H used to put my job down a lot until I started "complimenting" (for lack of a better word) his job. I started acknowledging how hard he works there & slowly started noticing he wasn't putting my job down like he used to.
> ...


I think you could be right. I respect my H's passion for his work and how much effort he puts into his career. But I always expected that we'd both be of the mindset that family comes first - especially during these early years - and it's apparent through his actions that he doesn't feel the same. H is also a perfectionist and will work on things and stay at work much longer than he actually needs to when managing projects to make sure everything is PERFECT. There is no good enough in his world, and I see that as a flaw in him, whereas he sees it as a shining example of his character. But, I criticized him for being selfish when he took the new job because of how much it increased the overall family burden. I have never been fond of his new job for that reason, and he knows it, and he refuses now to talk to me about anything related to his work and there has been a big rift between us for the last year over it. I have softened and stopped holding it over him but he knows I will never be able to fully forgive him. He thinks he did the right thing.

Maybe if I was nicer to him and more supportive of his new job he would be less critical of mine.

There's also been this unspoken thought - in my opinion - that I don't deserve the success that I have seen in my career because I sort of landed in my place by accident. He was one of those people that knew from age 5 what he wanted to be and passionately pursued it, including 8 years of college/masters. I went to college and was wishy-washy about choosing a major and eventually landed on something I was very "eh" about...got into jobs I was also very "eh" about but always did very well in the workplace and found it easy to climb and be promoted. I landed in my current job by sheer coincidence and turns out I really enjoy it and have seen a lot of success for it. But it's like since it happened coincidentally and not through my own dedicated passion, that I am not worthy of having this job at all.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I think you could be right. I respect my H's passion for his work and how much effort he puts into his career. But I always expected that we'd both be of the mindset that family comes first - especially during these early years - and it's apparent through his actions that he doesn't feel the same. H is also a perfectionist and will work on things and stay at work much longer than he actually needs to when managing projects to make sure everything is PERFECT. There is no good enough in his world, and I see that as a flaw in him, whereas he sees it as a shining example of his character. But, I criticized him for being selfish when he took the new job because of how much it increased the overall family burden. I have never been fond of his new job for that reason, and he knows it, and he refuses now to talk to me about anything related to his work and there has been a big rift between us for the last year over it. I have softened and stopped holding it over him but he knows I will never be able to fully forgive him. He thinks he did the right thing.
> 
> Maybe if I was nicer to him and more supportive of his new job he would be less critical of mine.


Being in marriage/relationship with a workoholic is tough. Personally I wouldn't do it.

What it really comes down to is "how much is his career effecting your marriage/family". How much time does it take off family/your time?

If any of those are issues, you should deal with it from that perspective, vs being critical of his career.

Say "honey, I'm sorry but you are working too much and it takes way too much time off family and our time". 

"Is your priority your job or is it your family"


TO ME, anyone that even REMOTELY puts their job/career ahead of ME or family = see ya

You can also ask him, what exactly is your priority and document all the 'extra time he spends at work (over 8 hours) then compare what he puts in towards family. When you document stuff like this over time and see it on paper......you might be in for a shock (him as well).


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

DoF said:


> Here is something for you.
> 
> 1st kid at 19.....no careers or work
> 
> ...


Thanks. I do know that. Usually when I share my story at our unplanned children, it is met with shock - horror - dismay. How could you be so irresponsible! How could you not have college funds already set up for your future child prior to their birth! You haven't purchased your oldest son his first car yet? You should have that ready for when he gets his license in 10 years!!

Obviously, I am being a bit sarcastic...but it feels this way a lot of times.

I think we could definitely live off of one income if we didn't have the massive CC and student loan debts hanging on us. We pay $1500/month on all of those various payments, and they aren't getting paid off anytime soon. 

It's all laughable to me, really...


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this has been said.

why did you have children? if work and money is so important what were you thinking ?

since working is a priority then hire someone to help with the children. I mean working 9-10 hrs a day I would have to think you guys a rolling in the cash. Now if your poor with your money and are over extended then that falls on your and your husbands shoulders. Then I would sugest reevaluating your Needs and budget accordingly.

Don't think I would advise any man to ever let their wife be a stay at home mom.After reading how many cheat,refuse to go back to work,and complain about it being so hard that they are being taken advantaged of bls,bla,bla

Just not worth it


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Thanks. I do know that. Usually when I share my story at our unplanned children, it is met with shock - horror - dismay. How could you be so irresponsible! How could you not have college funds already set up for your future child prior to their birth! You haven't purchased your oldest son his first car yet? You should have that ready for when he gets his license in 10 years!!


I ignore all that crap.

First off, College is NOT parents responsibility.....

2nd, NO ONE in this world can plan things out and be 100% ready.

Heck I look at my parents and they were WAY more out of their F'in mind having me and my brother. Sure they had college education, but we were in a crappy country in which even Einstein would not earn enough to survive.

How in the world did they decide to have kids?

hehe

You see, they just did, just like you and me. Things seem to have a way of working out. We have natural ability to adjust and do what has to be done.....WITHOUT plans.

And to top things off, I still tell my daughter that she saved my life. Before she was born I was a mess and was on a REALLY bad path. If she wasn't born, I would've probably ended up where most of my ex friends did......jail, addict or dead.

Her birth forced me to get my **** together and become a man that I am today.

Give me a button to go back in time, I wouldn't change ANYTHING.



kag123 said:


> I think we could definitely live off of one income if we didn't have the massive CC and student loan debts hanging on us. We pay $1500/month on all of those various payments, and they aren't getting paid off anytime soon.
> 
> It's all laughable to me, really...


That's tough, but it's ok. 

We can only recommend and really don't know all the details. You do, and it's really something you need to consider and see if applies to your situation well etc.

READ: Don't take my advice or others to heart.

PS. We used to have a lot of CC debt too, and if it wasn't for my mother helping us out.....we would be TOTALLY screwed right now.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Lila said:


> Do you think your husband would do the same were he given the opportunity to quit his job for one much closer to home?
> 
> I'm only asking because this seems to be the crux of your issue. You mentioned in an earlier post that your husband WAS working very close to school, albeit at a job he wasn't very happy doing. Then he changed jobs so HE could be more satisfied at HIS job, without much consideration for the kids' schedules (current and future) and without much consultation with you.
> 
> ...


I think you hit the nail on the head, with the crux of the issue...at least from MY perspective.

It's hard to me to explain to my husband my point of view, when he does not see what he did as selfish. To him, he makes more money now (not by much) and has better future opportunities and that makes up for any "minor" discomfort the family endures. He looks at the very long-term picture while I tend to focus on a mix of the short-term and long-term. Right now the short-term is causing me a great amount of stress and I am losing sight of his rosy future that he sees. This is probably a good place to mention that I am diagnosed and seeking treatment for depression/anxiety, and I have been on a high dose of meds for two years. (Along with other treatments and other health problems that compound my issues.) If it wasn't for those meds and keeping up with my medical care I would be absolutely locked in a cell somewhere right now. And I am considering upping my dosage again because I am having such a difficult time dealing with all of this.

Plus, our kids are little and by the time he gets to where he wants to go, likely they will be grown. And I will freely admit that I do not see a future for us being happily married. I have stopped looking toward the distant future too much because I cannot see one in which we will be able to live together once our kids are gone. That is SAD. I have never said that to him. I keep that to myself.

He also thinks I am making a big deal out of nothing re: the burden we place on MIL to help with our children currently. His mom having a panic attack because she has to drive 20 miles is a laughable thing to him. He says "Oh she'll get over it! Give it time!". I guess I have more empathy??? Probably because I know what debilitating anxiety feels like and he doesnt. I don't know. He still doesn't fully "get" what I take my meds for, even though he took me to the hospital in the middle of full mental breakdown two years ago. 

He's really NOT a bad person at all. He is just emotionally dense and seriously doesn't understand where I am coming from or why I find things so stressful. He thinks I am creating problems where there are none.

Maybe he's right!


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

chillymorn said:


> haven't read all the posts so forgive me if this has been said.
> 
> why did you have children? if work and money is so important what were you thinking ?
> 
> ...


Great post

PS. I have never EVER worked (or will accept) a job that requires more than 8 hours a day. But I will say (working with many top 100 corps on daily basis) that forcing people to work hours = new kind of slavery in America. Jobs will work you to DEATH if ONE ALLOWS THEM TO.

5 o'clock on the dot and it's MY LIFE/FAMILY TIME. Each and every day.

I don't care how much the job pays either....give me 1 million a year and I'm refusing.

My time with my family/my life is priceless.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Fwiw- I agree about working my standard hrs. For us a 9hr day is industry standard. Most are 8-5. I have adjusted mine so I work 630-330 so i can try to be home as early as possible with the kids in the afternoon. H does the morning with the kids and has adjusted his schedule to 9-6. We each have min. 1 hr commutes each way to work so I am getting out of the house on an avg day before my kids are awake. He is getting home around 7-8p and often brings his laptop home and continues working in the evening. I still dont get home early enough to get my son from school. When i get home i am doing some chores, homework with our son, cooking dinner and feeding everyone, playing with the kids and getting baths started. By the time he gets home I am exhausted and just want to sit somewhere to do nothing. He wants to stay up and watch TV and stuff with me at night, I struggle to stay awake past 9.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head, with the crux of the issue...at least from MY perspective.
> 
> It's hard to me to explain to my husband my point of view, when he does not see what he did as selfish. To him, he makes more money now (not by much) and has better future opportunities and that makes up for any "minor" discomfort the family endures. He looks at the very long-term picture while I tend to focus on a mix of the short-term and long-term. Right now the short-term is causing me a great amount of stress and I am losing sight of his rosy future that he sees. This is probably a good place to mention that I am diagnosed and seeking treatment for depression/anxiety, and I have been on a high dose of meds for two years. (Along with other treatments and other health problems that compound my issues.) If it wasn't for those meds and keeping up with my medical care I would be absolutely locked in a cell somewhere right now. And I am considering upping my dosage again because I am having such a difficult time dealing with all of this.


DO NOT look to pills to solve your issues. Only you can do that!!!



kag123 said:


> Plus, our kids are little and by the time he gets to where he wants to go, likely they will be grown. And I will freely admit that I do not see a future for us being happily married. I have stopped looking toward the distant future too much because I cannot see one in which we will be able to live together once our kids are gone. That is SAD. I have never said that to him. I keep that to myself.


You shouldn't. How much time do you guys spend together on daily basis one on one (no kids). I suggest you keep a close eye on that!!!




kag123 said:


> He also thinks I am making a big deal out of nothing re: the burden we place on MIL to help with our children currently. His mom having a panic attack because she has to drive 20 miles is a laughable thing to him. He says "Oh she'll get over it! Give it time!". I guess I have more empathy??? Probably because I know what debilitating anxiety feels like and he doesnt. I don't know. He still doesn't fully "get" what I take my meds for, even though he took me to the hospital in the middle of full mental breakdown two years ago.
> 
> He's really NOT a bad person at all. He is just emotionally dense and seriously doesn't understand where I am coming from or why I find things so stressful. He thinks I am creating problems where there are none.
> 
> Maybe he's right!


He could be.

Things are as big of a deal, or as little of a deal as you make them.

If I was to go back and think about all the things I made a big deal of, that were NOTHING......list would be long.

Don't worry too much, most of your worries will never happen anyways (if you want, keep track of your worries and when they actually happen).

Regardless, EVERYTHING will require your communication with your husband and both of you working together. This means you can sit down and talk about anything. It yours and his responsibility to create a healthy environment in order to make that happen (no kids around, no anger/emotion, smile....be optimistic/positive......listen.....no defensiveness etc etc).


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

All the things that are stoppoing you from living the way you want to have to be eliminated one by one.

Or, acceptance of what you are doing and why is also helpful.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Fwiw- I agree about working my standard hrs. For us a 9hr day is industry standard. Most are 8-5. I have adjusted mine so I work 630-330 so i can try to be home as early as possible with the kids in the afternoon. H does the morning with the kids and has adjusted his schedule to 9-6. We each have min. 1 hr commutes each way to work so I am getting out of the house on an avg day before my kids are awake. He is getting home around 7-8p and often brings his laptop home and continues working in the evening. I still dont get home early enough to get my son from school. When i get home i am doing some chores, homework with our son, cooking dinner and feeding everyone, playing with the kids and getting baths started. By the time he gets home I am exhausted and just want to sit somewhere to do nothing. He wants to stay up and watch TV and stuff with me at night, I struggle to stay awake past 9.


So what you are saying is the following.

Out of 16 awake hours in a day, you both contribute 10 hours towards your jobs, and 6 towards family.

I'm sorry to tell you this but as a UNIT, you both contribute about 66% of your time to work. That's kind of high....

Also, when kids go to sleep, don't go to sleep and spend some time with him. This is important, especially when it comes to intimacy/affection part.

Marriage requires constant/daily hard work. Think about how hard you 2 are working for Companies, and how hard you work for your marriage (seems like you work hard for kids already).

Seems like this has become a norm in this country, to me, it shouldn't be.

No wonder there is such a high divorce rate. Average American family requires 2 incomes just to stay afloat......which leaves very little time for LIFE/family......as companies squeeze as much time as possible from their employees (under threat of fired)


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

24 hours in a day...

Work = avg of 11 hrs when you include commutes.

Home = 13 hrs. 

Of those 13 hrs -

Me:
Sleep = 5-6 hrs
Time with kids awake doing chores/dinner/etc. = 3 hrs
Time with kids doing fun things or homework = 4 hrs

Him:
Sleep = 5-6 hrs
Time at home doing chores = 2 hrs
Time working on his laptop at home = 2 hrs
Time with kids and me = 3 hrs 

Time we spend together without kids = maybe 30 mins? 

We go on a date each week where we awkwardly try to talk to each other for a few hrs over dinner.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

kag123 said:


> We each have min. 1 hr commutes each way to work


Can you move to an apartment that cuts down the commute time, and that is closer to your MIL's house?

Sell the house, pay off some of that debt, especially the credit card debt.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Time we spend together without kids =* maybe 30 mins? *
> 
> We go on a date each week where we awkwardly try to talk to each other for a few hrs over dinner.


You came here with an issue of time with kids.

I'm telling you that you have a issue with time with your husband and probably kids too......

Travel to/from work and amount of hours you BOTH work is the issue.

When will you and your husband become priority to each other? 

That is #1, before the kids....that's right, I said it. Kids come 2nd after your marriage!

Also, neither of you gets enough sleep which cause more stress.......in the end HUGE health issues (and can VERY well be the reason why you have depression).


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## dean13 (May 2, 2013)

kag123 said:


> If you and your spouse both work in careers that are fairly demanding, and have children, how do you balance it all? I am interested in seeing how other families make it work.
> 
> This is a growing issue in my marriage and I have not been able to find a good solution. H and I both have demanding jobs, work full-time mostly 9-10 hr days and have little flexibility. It is the cause of a lot of problems in our lives, trying to figure out who gets to meet the demands of their career vs who has to sacrifice for the house and kids. We try to balance it but I think there is resentment there on both sides brewing.
> 
> ...


You're getting a lot of advice on what you should do in your situation. Ranging from you shouldn't have had kids, downsize your house, cut back on spending, take another job, move etc...

Problem is, while some of these suggestions may work, only you know your situation completely and what is possible for you. It sounds like you are already living pretty frugally.

Like you, we had a child before we were completely ready, ended up accruing more debt than we would like and we both had to work full time, even though that wasn't the plan. 

Some of the things that worked for us at various times: 

*Family and relative babysitting assistance(paid and unpaid)

After-school programs

Boys and Girls Club

Going over friends houses after school where a parent we were friends with would be home.

For a few years we made a good chunk of change selling things online to pay down some debt.

Recently I found a job with flex hours where I can also work from home a couple of days a week.*

Don't let the people who say you weren't prepared enough get you down, think of the future and what you can do to make things better a little bit at a time, and just hang in there, the time constraints get a little easier as the children get older and more self-sufficient. Plus, as you get farther along in your career, not sure what you do, maybe you can start to try to negotiate some flexibility into your hours.

But please, make time for your husband and you to spend time together, it's more important than you think, we didn't in the beginning and it almost cost us our marriage.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Re: spending more time together, I am not sure how we can get there. 

We are both at that stage where we are just blah...about being around each other. It's gotten monumentally worse since he started the new job a year ago. We used to at least keep in touch frequently during the work day...now its nothing unless there's an emergency. 

I try to set up dates for us but it usually involves having to coerce him, "because it costs money" (no matter how little), and then when we do go out its awkward and we have nothing to say to each other. So I usually end up thinking why did I go thru the effort?? I get time to myself on the weekends when I run all of the errands and do all the shopping on weekend mornings while he stays with the kids, which is my recharge time. He gets alone time on the weekend afternoons which he usually chooses to use working or watching baseball or TV. 

But yea....I don't remember what it feels like to love each other or actually want to talk to each other. We don't fight. We just don't do anything really...we talk every day about the kids and whats for dinner and some routine BS about how was your day, "fine how was yours". You would think we are the most boring ppl on earth. 

He doesn't seem to care. When I try to talk about anything serious like our marriage its meant with a blank stare of wtf are you talking about?

So somewhere along the way I refocused on things I could do with the kids and with work and left him alone because he seems to prefer it that way? 

How do you get back from here? I kind of figured eventually this will bottom out and either we'll go our separate ways or he will wake up and start participating?


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

You need to wake him up and realize that a cold, blank stare is no kind of response to a spouse that wants to discuss the state of the marriage. He's simply not taking you seriously, and knows that if he just stares at you, you will back down. He knows he can block you out and that you will back down and things stay exactly how he wants them. Stop backing down.

Maybe it's time to bring out the D word - if he doesn't start listening, hearing, and then discussing and taking some action, that's where you're heading, as you've already pointed out and thought about. If the idea of divorce doesn't get him to take you seriously when you talk about your thoughts and feelings about the marriage, your marriage is already over.


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## dean13 (May 2, 2013)

kag123 said:


> Re: spending more time together, I am not sure how we can get there.
> 
> We are both at that stage where we are just blah...about being around each other. It's gotten monumentally worse since he started the new job a year ago. We used to at least keep in touch frequently during the work day...now its nothing unless there's an emergency.
> 
> ...


You both have to be willing to set aside the time and try to connect again. With my wife, she noticed that we were drifting apart and fighting more often, but didn't know what to do about it. It was me who initiated everything and took charge of setting aside the time for us to have "dates". 

But she thought it was a great idea and was all in with it. If your husband doesn't want to participate, that's not good. Money is an obstacle of course, but there are plenty of things that can be done for little or no money. My wife and I started hiking trails near our house 2 or 3 times a month, which was completely free, other than buying a backpack and some other stuff. Then once a month we'd have a traditional "date night". 

The nothing to say to each other stuff sounds like the resentment is already pretty steep. Leaving him alone and waiting for things to bottom out is too passive, things will just get worse. Is there anything that he used to like to do before the kids, that you guys can do together? Something he might be more agreeable to?


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## dean13 (May 2, 2013)

norajane said:


> You need to wake him up and realize that a cold, blank stare is no kind of response to a spouse that wants to discuss the state of the marriage. He's simply not taking you seriously, and knows that if he just stares at you, you will back down. Stop backing down.
> 
> Maybe it's time to bring out the D word - if he doesn't start listening, hearing, and then discussing and taking some action, that's where you're heading, as you've already pointed out and thought about. If the idea of divorce doesn't get him to take you seriously when you talk about your thoughts and feelings about the marriage, your marriage is already over.


I don't know about the "D" word, my wife did that a few times at our lowest points and it hurt me to no end and caused me to withdraw further.

Different personalities will have different reactions to that I guess.

But, it does sound like he needs to "wake up" to the fact that you can't continue on the path you're on or things will get worse.


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## norajane (Feb 7, 2012)

dean13 said:


> I don't know about the "D" word, my wife did that a few times at our lowest points and it hurt me to no end and caused me to withdraw further.
> 
> Different personalities will have different reactions to that I guess.
> 
> But, it does sound like he needs to "wake up" to the fact that you can't continue on the path you're on or things will get worse.


I think it's perfectly accurate to say "I'm unhappy, and I want to discuss how we can improve our marriage, because if we do nothing and nothing changes, we are heading toward divorce."

Kag is already thinking that she won't be around in the future. What is that if not divorce? Maybe she can hang on for the kids for a while, but Mr. Blank Stare will likely end up driving her out sooner rather than later if he is doing nothing more than staring like a stump when she talks.


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## dean13 (May 2, 2013)

norajane said:


> I think it's perfectly accurate to say "I'm unhappy, and I want to discuss how we can improve our marriage, because if we do nothing and nothing changes, we are heading toward divorce."
> 
> Kag is already thinking that she won't be around in the future. What is that if not divorce? Maybe she can hang on for the kids for a while, but Mr. Blank Stare will likely end up driving her out sooner rather than later if he is doing nothing more than staring like a stump when she talks.


You're probably right, if framed the way you did above. Either way, something has to be done to get him to take some action.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

We decided before kids who was going to work and who was going to stay home with them. If it came down to a struggle over who would 'make the sacrifice' of giving up their career and neither wanted to, we wouldn't have had kids because that would've been a fairly clear indication that we shouldn't have children. We were both of the opinion that children should come first for a parent, above everything else, their wellbeing was paramount. If you can't provide that, you shouldn't have children. Just my opinion.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



breeze said:


> We decided before kids who was going to work and who was going to stay home with them. If it came down to a struggle over who would 'make the sacrifice' of giving up their career and neither wanted to, we wouldn't have had kids because that would've been a fairly clear indication that we shouldn't have children. We were both of the opinion that children should come first for a parent, above everything else, their wellbeing was paramount. If you can't provide that, you shouldn't have children. Just my opinion.


This is great , thanks. I will go unbirth my kids ASAP.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

OP I think everyone else has hit the salient points. Here is my recap with some thoughts thrown in at the end:

1. The only real way to have two successful careers and a stable family is for both spouses to be on the same page.

2. It is imperative that you speak to your DH and inform him that things are really bad. If he is blankly staring at you, I suspect that you're saying something like "let's work on our marriage" and to him, things are fine so he has no idea what you're going on about. Either that, or he is just not interested. Neither is good.

Maybe consider something strong and truthful, such as:

"DH, I am not happy with this marriage. I fell in love with you and now that love is in limbo. I appreciate that you are a great provider; however you just kind of stopped at that. I don't feel respected, I don't feel like my job counts, I don't feel like I can rely on you to help with child care, and I don't feel like you take my concerns seriously. I feel unloved and uncared for. I miss the happy marriage and the love we once had; right now it is dying on the vine for me. Right now I don't see a future for us if things continue as they are. Will you help me turn this around?"

Adjust to fit your situation, the above is just a thought based on your posts so far. But I think you need to be crystal clear about your issues, describe your unhappiness, stay away from "you don't do....." and stick with "I" statements. Ask him to help. You need his help, after all, yes?

If he still stares blankly, then you have a whole new set of issues on your hands! But from your posts, it sounds like this will probably wake him up. 

3. I am advocate of His Needs, Her Needs (or for you two, even better- His Needs, Her Needs for Parents.) It maps out a plan of action including spending a LOT of time together, and it describes the policy of joint agreement. 

Best of luck!


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## dean13 (May 2, 2013)

kag123 said:


> This is great , thanks.


See OP? Just go back and un-have your children, problem solved.


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## RoseAglow (Apr 11, 2013)

FWIW, OP, I can totally relate to you wanting your career. 

Personally, I would never willingly give up mine. I would, and have, changed jobs/positions, I would change companies, etc, to accommodate my family, but I would never outright stop working in other than extreme circumstances. 

My work is a critical part of who I am. It is only one part, but it is a necessary part. 

And, many spouses get surprises after the wedding and/or kids arrive. Some husbands are shocked and angry that their wife doesn't cook or do laundry; some wives are angry and surprised that that their husband isn't willing to fully support them- especially once kids are born. There are always rough edges and cross-roads. Decisions that were made prior to marriage or kids are undone or re-made differently. 

So don't get it get you down.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

I have read through a lot of the replies multiple times. Some things still astonish me...like how many seem to think it's evil for both parents to work? I KNOW that we are not in the minority. I honestly dont know a whole lot of ppl who are able to pull it off. But I am already evil for having my kids unplanned lol. I can't win. I will never understand the battle between SAHM vs. Working moms (or dads). I have never felt one was more holy than the other...unless you are a total deadbeat aren't we all just doing the best we can with what we've got? As long as kids have good role models and people who love them and keep them safe, who is to say which way is better than the other? Baffles me....

Some of the replies just make me shake my head....it's some of what I run into IRL and I find myself just saying "ew" when I hear people judging things when they have no idea what it's like to walk in the other persons shoes. 

Sorry I can't quote them all...trying to post from my phone and its hard to follow everything on this tiny screen. 

Someone said I was being too passive. I think you are the first person in my entire life that has called me passive. It feels good lol.  Although I know you meant it as something I need to work on. I have always been a bull in a China shop, strong willed and outspoken and that applies to my marriage. H is a "nice guy" (read the book and said it was him and didn't follow any of the advice in it). I used to steamroll him on a daily basis and he told me that was why he withdraws and doesn't talk to me. So I stopped. I've read all the books too, including the surrendered wife. I gave him space to make decisions for us and encourage him and put my judgment away. During this time is when he made the decision to switch jobs and part of why I didn't create too many waves is because I wanted to try trusting him to lead us. Letting go and letting him take the reigns. But I haven't seen any actual benefits for ME or the FAMILY from this change...He says I am too impatient and and don't look at the future and that all change is uncomfortable at first. 

This arrangement we are in now with the childcare and his mom doing the grunt work was HIS decision and I never said a word trying to give it a fair chance before I lost my sh!T over it. I really did want it to work. But here we are and all I can think is...told you so! I have never said that btw. I never even told him my reservations originally, trying to give him a chance to lead us. It didn't work and now I am dreading the feedback I am giving him because it's another thing for him to add to the pile of "reasons my wife is a mouthy biotch and I can't do anything right". He has never said that, btw. It is my perception of what he thinks of me, based on his complaints and reasons why he withdraws from me. 

I do like what you guys have said in terms of things to start the convo with H. I will try them. 

Re: threatening divorce. I have never spoken that word to him, and I am not sure I would because I wouldn't follow through on it. We are not really in a position where we could split...we are barely getting by together. I don't see any good coming from a threat with no action behind it. 

A part of me also thinks....why throw a fit to get his attention? I am not sure I even want it at this point. If I am so disposable that he doesn't feel the need to speak to me or date me or spend time connecting why would I beg for that from him? 

My perception is that he just doesn't need any of those things. He doesn't really have a need to connect with anyone, he's perfectly happy living in his own bubble coasting along blissfully ignorant. I can't make him be someone he's not. Clearly I had something back in our history that he found attractive that spurred him to connect with me and come out of his shell...and whatever that is, it's gone now. 

He has told me I am abrasive, intimidating, "a fast talking lawyer" (I think he means that I can out - argue him and he's told me he often feels like I put him on trial), and that he can never win with me so why try. 

So I scaled back and retreated. He got happier, I am feeling worse than before....not connecting with him AND now stuffing my feelings. 

And putting myself out there on a forum getting judged for being a bad parent on top of a bad wife! (Not saying all of you feel that way, just having a bit of a vent. I appreciate those who have listened.)

Also, I can't help but think of all of the stories I've read here about walk away wives and how one day they are just gone...poof...With no warning. I could see my H coming here if I ever left and wondering what the heck happened and claiming he had no idea that I was unhappy.


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## NobodySpecial (Nov 22, 2013)

breeze said:


> We decided before kids who was going to work and who was going to stay home with them. If it came down to a struggle over who would 'make the sacrifice' of giving up their career and neither wanted to, we wouldn't have had kids because that would've been a fairly clear indication that we shouldn't have children. We were both of the opinion that children should come first for a parent, above everything else, their wellbeing was paramount. If you can't provide that, you shouldn't have children. Just my opinion.


That is completely nuts. Many of us can put our kids "first" while maintaining our careers. Though in this age of helicopter parenting, I am guessing that what I think putting them first is is different than a lot of other people. I don't know how old the OP's kids are. No doubt it is harder when they are young. But by the time they hit school, there is simply no reason that this should be the case.

It takes organization and planning, a willingness to work together as a team, including the kids (and how is that anything but a good thing) and smarts.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Marrying someone like me helps 

I am in a demanding career as is my wife. The difference is I am in a field where nobody outside my team knows what we are doing (product design and analysis) while wifey is an IT analytics consultant. Meaning, I get to work bank hours while doing more than expected. 

I got to raise two girls on my own which was a lot of fun... Token playground dad, PTO dad... Piano dad, SAT prep dad, GRE prep dad (sigh)...

This, and sticking with the same company for a while... I could be working elsewhere for more money but more work...


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



john117 said:


> Marrying someone like me helps
> 
> I am in a demanding career as is my wife. The difference is I am in a field where nobody outside my team knows what we are doing (product design and analysis) while wifey is an IT analytics consultant. Meaning, I get to work bank hours while doing more than expected.
> 
> ...


Well, this was the vision I had of my H before he changed jobs. He had this kind of flexibility (almost) in his old job and got a lot of extra PTO. He gave it up when he left. I guess he didn't share my "vision" like I thought.


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## AliceA (Jul 29, 2010)

kag123 said:


> This is great , thanks. I will go unbirth my kids ASAP.


Yeah, sorry, I know that came across as very antagonistic. Comes from being one of those kids who never had parents around as I was growing up, they were always working.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

Yea, the job market for small appliance psychologists is not all that great . I have amazon,google, and many others sending weekly LinkedIn requests, meh. Twice the money for twice the hours and twice the cost of living.,, 

I've worked for the same group and boss for 16 years. Same company for 29. If I call the boss and ask to work from home because the Martians have landed on my rose bushes he's ok with it...


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## Vivid (Aug 28, 2014)

Is there any possibility you could move your inlaws in with you, or buy a suitable house all together? That would take care of the childcare issues and help them too. 

Honestly, I don't see how a family with children can function well with both parents working/commuting 11 hour days. What about when they get older and want to do after school activities? Will you just say sorry, too bad for you? 

I think you need to make some really drastic changes. You're going to burn yourself out, your children aren't going to have enough time with either of you, getting so little sleep regularly sounds very dangerous for someone with mental health issues, and you seem to feel you have no choice but to keep going.

So look at big changes
-declaring bankruptcy
-moving in with inlaws
-finding a new job closer to home

Things will crash and burn one way or another otherwise.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't think it's evil for two parents to work.
But, all parents need to organize their lives around their priorities and make adjustments when things are not working. You clearly describe a situation that is not working for you and by extension is not working for your children. Alot of people get lost in so many paradigms of how things "have to be" or "were supposed to be" that they don't see that there are many other possibilities.

Some of your situation is unchangeable. These are true constraints that you have to work on. Some of your situation is changeable but you don't see it as changeable. That's what I think I am trying to point out. And how do you see what is changeable vs. unchangeable? Take a fresh look at the life you have constructed using a set of priorities different from what you are using.

What I mean is that it is unchangeable that you and your husband need money. What may be changeable is how much money or how you get the money. Switching jobs, career paths, going to a night shift etc. It is unchangeable that you need a place to live but the place you live is changeable. It is unchangeable that you need child care if you are working, but when the MIL is not working out, that is changeable (and if you were looking through the lens of your immediate family's needs, you would not be worred about your MIL's income).

It is the number 1 priority to have a happy marriage and both of you need to work together to remove anything that is blocking you from doing that. It sounds daunting but failing to do that will cost you more financially and emotionally.


Also, your husband.... Is he a bad person? Is he a selfish person? Is he escaping your family life by working? Or is he trying to show you that he loves and cares about his family by working hard as men often do. I think it's imperative that you stop making assumptions about him and his motives and really gain and understanding of this.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> I don't think it's evil for two parents to work.
> But, all parents need to organize their lives around their priorities and make adjustments when things are not working. You clearly describe a situation that is not working for you and by extension is not working for your children. Alot of people get lost in so many paradigms of how things "have to be" or "were supposed to be" that they don't see that there are many other possibilities.
> 
> Some of your situation is unchangeable. These are true constraints that you have to work on. Some of your situation is changeable but you don't see it as changeable. That's what I think I am trying to point out. And how do you see what is changeable vs. unchangeable? Take a fresh look at the life you have constructed using a set of priorities different from what you are using.
> ...


Great post

Last paragraph is important IMO.

If OP feels like their marriage is over after kids move out, better work on that now!! Cause it's coming!


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Hicks said:


> I don't think it's evil for two parents to work.
> But, all parents need to organize their lives around their priorities and make adjustments when things are not working. You clearly describe a situation that is not working for you and by extension is not working for your children. Alot of people get lost in so many paradigms of how things "have to be" or "were supposed to be" that they don't see that there are many other possibilities.
> 
> Some of your situation is unchangeable. These are true constraints that you have to work on. Some of your situation is changeable but you don't see it as changeable. That's what I think I am trying to point out. And how do you see what is changeable vs. unchangeable? Take a fresh look at the life you have constructed using a set of priorities different from what you are using.
> ...


Replying to your last paragraph...

I don't think my H is a bad person at all. I don't necessarily think he is selfish either. I think that he thinks I am selfish though. 

I think he sees himself as doing the best that he can to support and provide for us. He works hard and has never been irresponsible or a slacker. The key issue at the moment is that our ideas of what the best way to achieve the goal of each providing the best for our family are very different. He believes his career and his money are his top contributions and the key to getting us ahead (with lots of focus on paying off debts and accruing a large savings account which we don't currently have). I believe family, time spent with our children, and health are Important but I am a realist and understand we need income to achieve a happy balance. Any input I give to discuss a shift in priority from his career over to literally any other part of his life is seen as a direct attack on his character and role of provider for the family. He shuts down immediately and withdraws from me. His primary focus is money. How much are we bringing in, where is it going, how much is my paycheck, how we are chipping away at the debt, how much am I spending. Hence the big focus on my salary and maintaining the money coming in. 

Re: making assumptions....

When you are partnered with someone who does not speak to you openly, it is difficult to gain understanding of that persons true desires and true feelings. My perceptions and understanding of him are pieced together from the following: 1) what is gleaned thru talking, which is very little; 2) what his actions portray and 3) his reactions to things I do. 

In order to make decisions for our family to move forward and to move my own life forward, I need input to evaluate the best course of action. When that input doesn't come via an open dialogue, I must use reason and hypothesis to make decisions. Almost every action I take is an experiment in my marraige, never really knowing if I am doing the right thing. 

After many years of this, I do not see how our marriage can survive a lifetime of one spouse wading around in the dark living life by trial and error. All attempts to open discussion are met with bewilderment and no progress.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

kag123 said:


> I have read through a lot of the replies multiple times. Some things still astonish me...like how many seem to think it's evil for both parents to work? I KNOW that we are not in the minority. I honestly dont know a whole lot of ppl who are able to pull it off. But I am already evil for having my kids unplanned lol. I can't win. I will never understand the battle between SAHM vs. Working moms (or dads). I have never felt one was more holy than the other...unless you are a total deadbeat aren't we all just doing the best we can with what we've got? As long as kids have good role models and people who love them and keep them safe, who is to say which way is better than the other? Baffles me....
> 
> Some of the replies just make me shake my head....it's some of what I run into IRL and I find myself just saying "ew" when I hear people judging things when they have no idea what it's like to walk in the other persons shoes.
> 
> ...


It sounds to me like you are very level headed and realize what a lot of the issues are in your marriage. Why not let him read this you just wrote? I feel you on the struggle of working and managing a home and family and trying to stay sane. It is very real.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I don't think you need open discussion. IN other words you don't need to discuss something and come to agreement.

What I would say is somethign along the lines of. "Husband, I know you are a great husband and in your heart you have the family's best interests at heart. You show this every day by trying to advance your carreer and provide for you family's present and your future. I know you are doing all of this for us and I respect you tremendously for it. I know this is part of what makes you a man. But I am not a man. I am a woman. My needs are different. I need help. I need emotional support. I need fun. I need help with the kids. You have to decide what kind of guy you want to be... One that works hard to provide what you think your wife is supposed to want, or one that works hard to provide what your wife actually wants".

Then let him think that over and you will either see adjustments or you wont.

On the flip side, he needs his needs met too..... And you may be giving to what you think he wants but not actually what he really wants.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Revamped said:


> And that works for YOU. Not for everybody.


And where did I say it should apply to everybody or my advice is some kind of a commandment to live by?



Revamped said:


> There is no reason why either one of them have to quit their job to stay home. It takes planning and scheduling and continuity and a HUSBAND who can contribute just as much to the family as the wife.


Of course not, they have to decide what will work for them. Quitting a job might not be a solution. 

But something will have to give....for sure



Revamped said:


> I think YOU'RE wrong to have screwed up priorities to think a job/career wouldn't be one of the top priorities in Life. Ya can't live if there ain't no money coming in...


I think you are taking my statements to the extreme and running with it.

OF COURSE you need a job and money to survive and it's an important part of life. well DUH

HOWEVER, job doesn't HAVE to be a priority in life UNLESS YOU MAKE IT.

I can start working 12 hours days TODAY and make my work the center of my universe.

That would make me a REALLY ****ty husband, father, son and many other things.

Job is a TOOL to live and get by, but it's not a priority that comes before marriage.....kids....family.....etc.

Job is 8-4 of my time in life. Nothing more and nothing less. Rest is completely dedicated TO MY LIFE. I will not allow any company or entity to enslave me or hold me hostage. But I do see people that are allowing that too happen on DAILY BASIS. I also see companies taking it to the extreme.

No company give a crap about you or your well being. If they can get 12 hours out of you and you let them, they WILL. 

There is NO boundaries.......they can care less how it effects your family, health etc.

People that are workaholics and "carrier oriented" usually don't make great partners in marriage or parents (from what I've seen). Of course that doesn't apply to ALL, but many. 

I'm on my 3rd career and do quiet well......but I will not work for a place that will enslave me and make JOB the priority in my life.

HELL NO. Even if it means I have to live in a tent with limited resources. As long as I'm with my loved ones, whatever.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Fwiw- I agree about working my standard hrs. For us a 9hr day is industry standard.


Come on now, as a PM you should know the industry "jargon".

Industry standard = words that will force you to put in extra hours.

I'm telling you that I'm a PM and work 8 hour days.....for past DECADE.

No, it's not an industry standard AT ALL.



kag123 said:


> Most are 8-5. I have adjusted mine so I work 630-330 so i can try to be home as early as possible with the kids in the afternoon. H does the morning with the kids and has adjusted his schedule to 9-6. We each have min. 1 hr commutes each way to work so I am getting out of the house on an avg day before my kids are awake. He is getting home around 7-8p and often brings his laptop home and continues working in the evening. I still dont get home early enough to get my son from school. When i get home i am doing some chores, homework with our son, cooking dinner and feeding everyone, playing with the kids and getting baths started. By the time he gets home I am exhausted and just want to sit somewhere to do nothing. He wants to stay up and watch TV and stuff with me at night, I struggle to stay awake past 9.



I want you to add up your commute time + # of hours worked and take your salary and figure out EXACTLY how much you make AN HOUR "at the end of the day".

Your husband should do the same.....

Then you look around for a job locally with little commute that can pay you that amount.

I used to have an hour commute WITH my wife staying at home with kids, and it was too much. It took WAY too much time from my life.

Now I have a 5 min commute and LOVE IT. Probably one of 2-3 things that keeps me at the place where I am. 

I would take a 20-30% pay cut EASILY (thankfully at this point I'm making WAY more than back when I used to travel hour each way). Worked out great.


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## Csquare (Jan 14, 2014)

Kag123,

Your schedule sounds grueling and hellish. No wonder you are depressed and anxious. 

Your top priorities need to be: Health - yours and your families. Seriously, 5-6 hours sleep/night is a disaster waiting to happen.

Your cc and student loan debt are a concern to me. I wish people would consider that BEFORE they go to college. Back in the 80's when I was in college, people could default on student loans if they couldn't make payments. Even doctors and lawyers were known to default. Nowadays, they will throw you in jail if you tried that. Honestly, what is our problem as a society that we force young people to be debt-slaves just for getting an education?

Anyway, back to your situation. Seems like the long commute is money -and more importantly TIME - being wasted. How is it that you cannot find jobs that are closer to where you live, or live closer to where you work? 

I know you love your job. But, you might need to be more flexible with how you view it. Is your employer willing to let you telecommute? If not, honestly, you might come out ahead financially by quitting your job and opening your home as a daycare like your MIL did. Then you'd be able to spend quality time with your kids as well. Do the math. You're paying MIL $1k/month to watch 2 kids. That's the going rate. Imagine if you took in 4 kids, that's $2k/month - and you'd be saving what you spend on your own kids.

Pretty soon, it makes more cents to stay home.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Csquare said:


> Kag123,
> 
> Your schedule sounds grueling and hellish. No wonder you are depressed and anxious.
> 
> Your top priorities need to be: Health - yours and your families. Seriously, 5-6 hours sleep/night is a disaster waiting to happen.


Agreed



Csquare said:


> Your cc and student loan debt are a concern to me. I wish people would consider that BEFORE they go to college. Back in the 80's when I was in college, people could default on student loans if they couldn't make payments. Even doctors and lawyers were known to default. Nowadays, they will throw you in jail if you tried that. Honestly, what is our problem as a society that we force young people to be debt-slaves just for getting an education?


I call it "new age slavery"

To make things worse, they are giving these loans out to EVERYONE, thus, College degree is the "new high school diploma"........simply not worth as much. It used to take someone special to go to college, now, EVERYONE is doing it.

Student loans will crash as bad as the housing market IMO.They are giving loans to people that should never EVER get them......or getting WORTHLESS degrees.

I see more and more companies look at experience vs education as well. 

We have few kids here with BAR/graduated college that are working support jobs.......but the whole "become a lawyer and get rich is LONG LONG gone". Quite opposite now actually hehe.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

what more valuable Time or money?

you only have so much time in life. so my opinion is time is by far the most valuable asset.

I would rather adjust my life style to have enough money to live,save for retirement,and enjoy some things in life but when all your time is going to work it seem to defeat the porpose.

reevaluating your real needs vers your wants can get you there. just some food for thought.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

Part of the issue in my particular case is that 90% of our crushing debt is my husband's from before we married. As his wife I pay equally to those debts, and I married him aware of his debt but naive to how much it would impact our quality of life and for how long. 

I went to a low cost university in state and paid part of my way as I was going by holding a 30+hr a week job the entire time. I have loans and a little CC debt but nothing crushing. 

H went to school for almost 8 years straight (bachelor's then 4 yr masters) and went to prestigious schools for both (read:expensive). He didn't work during college, couldn't really bc of his program requirements, and funding it all via loans. He also lived off CC with what wasn't covered by loans. This includes his bar hopping every weekend and his semester abroad in Europe. 

It stings because here we are 10 years later in the trenches. He got to have fun and live it up spending that money back then while I lived frugally the entire time and I am still paying towards his debt anyway. I love him and as I said I knew of the debt when I married him, and to be fair some of the CC debt was accrued during various emergencies in our early life together like a massive car repair here or there. 

But yea...we didn't have any money given to us for college, we were each the first generation in our families to get a degree so we went into it blind with no guidance. The economy crashed right when we both entered the job market and salaries took a nose dive. Particularly his. (Architect)

I think part of his focus on money as the be - all and end - all is his history with the debt and knowing it's on the forefront of his mind to get that chip off his shoulder. To me I don't really see a big deal in just carrying it around and continue to pay the interest for another 5 or 10 years...I know what that will cost us in the long run in terms of money but I like to be more forgiving on myself because I can only do so many things at once and paying this massive debt isn't going to be scratched from the to do list anytime soon.


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## chillymorn (Aug 11, 2010)

I hear ya.

I guess your SOL.

so you don't really want any reasonable sugestion your just venting.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

DoF said:


> I do NOT recommend taking PM approach to family management.
> 
> I'm a PM as well, and I tried this few times......it is WAY too much and extremely overwhelming.
> 
> ...


If you had properly read what I said...I don't take a PM approach to "family" management....I said its how I run my HOME.

And it works extremely well actually. Time management of your household isn't just a convenience when you're working...its a necessity.

And I really do have to shake my head at all the posters suggesting that this woman cut back her position at work for a lesser job.

I absolutely would never do that given what she's described about her husband. Its completely dangerous. How many women on this forum don't work and then come in there whining because they need to leave their crappy marriage and have ZERO means to support themselves and their children.

And why exactly is it always the female who should cut back at work...what about her husband?

The SAHM syndrome is really out of control. I literally roll my eyes whenever I hear of either a grown woman who can't support her own children in a divorce or a man who's whining about alimony.

Career decisions need to be made as a couple with both people understanding the risks for the family and the individual. And you need to have a mitigation plan for divorce, death, illness. It isn't always the right answer that the female spouse should stall her career. And if she does, she needs to have a contingency fund set aside.

Working women raise happy, healthy, successful children every single day. I've certainly managed it just fine. It can be done and done well. I'm so very grateful that my mother taught me the value of a strong work ethic and self-reliance. 

You CAN have it all...but you need a partner. And if you have a bad partner...it really doesn't matter whether you work or not...there are going to be major issues.

I guarantee you OP that if you listen to the SAHP forum on here and you run into marital difficulties because you end up making less money and your spouse now makes your life a living hell because of it, you'll be sorry you listened.


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## GA HEART (Oct 18, 2011)

Venting is ok though.....no one on these forums HAS to do what anyone suggests, just like no one HAS to suggest anything.

I am a single mother in much the same position you are in, OP. Except it's my debt. (And thow in the added stress of the ex stopping child support.) I am trying to find another job closer to home, but not coming up with much. My live in BF works, but makes less than I do. He contributes some to the household bills, but I carry much more than he does. He doens't help me with the kids (physically) because, well, they aren't his kids. LOL! The stress of worrying about how to manage it all can be overwhelming if I let it be.

Instead I decide to eat a cookie. Love on my babies. Hug my man.

It's easy to let this stuff add up and bog us down. I have horses but you wouldn't know it because I barely see them (boarded.) I want to start going to the gym again because I miss working out. I stress a little over not getting ME time, but I am healthy......my family is happy.....I"m doing my best. And I forgive myself for not being perfect.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

Well it comes down to this. In his way of thinking, what he is doing is right. But it's win the battle and lose the war. So, you have to let him know that too much focus on career and debt pay off is not going to give him the happy, loyal wife and family that he may want in life. But you have to leave him to make his own decisions... Not spend alot of time and energy convincing him of things.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Hicks said:


> Well it comes down to this. In his way of thinking, what he is doing is right. But it's win the battle and lose the war. So, you have to let him know that too much focus on career and debt pay off is not going to give him the happy, loyal wife and family that he may want in life. But you have to leave him to make his own decisions... Not spend alot of time and energy convincing him of things.


Well "let him come to his own conclusions and not try to convince him of anything" is the road I've been taking for the last 1.5 years or so. This is kind of what I meant when I mentioned my whole attempt at being more submissive. 

However...here I am. Unhappy and posting my life on a marriage forum. 

So I struggle....how much do you let go and stay quiet. How much do you try to convince? Do you threaten or no? Do you make unilateral decisions and stop worrying about the team? 

This gray area is where my mind swims 24/7. I used to be a confident and assured person when it came to everything, my marriage is giving me enough pause to completely feel like "I have no idea what I am doing". I question every move I make these days and feel paralyzed by indecision. 

And then I swallow the pills to keep me sane in the daytime and the pills at night to make me sleep.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



GA HEART said:


> Venting is ok though.....no one on these forums HAS to do what anyone suggests, just like no one HAS to suggest anything.
> 
> I am a single mother in much the same position you are in, OP. Except it's my debt. (And thow in the added stress of the ex stopping child support.) I am trying to find another job closer to home, but not coming up with much. My live in BF works, but makes less than I do. He contributes some to the household bills, but I carry much more than he does. He doens't help me with the kids (physically) because, well, they aren't his kids. LOL! The stress of worrying about how to manage it all can be overwhelming if I let it be.
> 
> ...


Thank for the support. And I eat cookies !! Probably too many for my own good. I love to cook and bake and its one of my stress relievers. But that means my house sometimes look like Betty Crocker came over.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

kag123 said:


> However...here I am. Unhappy and posting my life on a marriage forum.


Actually, I find this to be 10x better than talking to family/friends about it. Cause that **** sticks around FOREVER. I no longer do that....EVER.

I would rather get opinions from 100s of people, see what majority thinks > make my decision based on that.



kag123 said:


> So I struggle....how much do you let go and stay quiet.


You shouldn't stay quiet. You should be able to go to your husband and talk to him about anything. If that is not the case, you have much deeper issues than what you posted.



kag123 said:


> How much do you try to convince?


As much as it takes to get results!!!



kag123 said:


> Do you threaten or no?


If there is no results or action or compromise.......yes.



kag123 said:


> Do you make unilateral decisions and stop worrying about the team?


I wouldn't recommend that. You guys are a team, resolve issues together.

If you are not happy with results/lack of action or compromise you need to decide if it's a deal breaker.



kag123 said:


> This gray area is where my mind swims 24/7. I used to be a confident and assured person when it came to everything, my marriage is giving me enough pause to completely feel like "I have no idea what I am doing". I question every move I make these days and feel paralyzed by indecision.


This is normal as a parent. Life is a roller coaster, you are simply at the bottom. Don't worry about it.....it will get better in time.

Think positive/and be optimistic about future. This a lot of times transfers into better results AND better future.

Negative thinking is completely natural and most people do it too much (including me). Catch yourself and correct it as you go.

Paying attention to yourself and your mind/emotion is important.

Practice mind control, it does WONDERS!!! Catch, adjust/ignore etc.



kag123 said:


> And then I swallow the pills to keep me sane in the daytime and the pills at night to make me sleep.


This is dangerous.....VERY dangerous. I'm not a doctor, but I do know that only YOU can solve your problems (not the pill).

get some sleep, don't worry, relax and talk to your husband about all of the issues in a nice/healthy/mature way.

Don't be too hard on yourself ehh? 

Life is best lived at a leisure pace.


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## Hicks (Jan 14, 2011)

I think you have to read the entirety of the posts I wrote.

You have to complement him and reassure him that you know his heart is in the right place. Then point out his work and effort are missing the target.

Most younger men (myself included) think that being a husband is 90% about money. You worry about money, debt, kids futures.... So you get driven in your career. And you think it's the exact right thing that your wife wants and needs. But it's incorrect. Somehow he has to learn that he is running hard to the finish line, but he took a wrong turn on the track and can't win the race.


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## DoF (Mar 27, 2014)

Hicks said:


> I think you have to read the entirety of the posts I wrote.
> 
> You have to complement him and reassure him that you know his heart is in the right place. Then point out his work and effort are missing the target.
> 
> Most younger men (myself included) think that being a husband is 90% about money. You worry about money, debt, kids futures.... So you get driven in your career. And you think it's the exact right thing that your wife wants and needs. But it's incorrect. Somehow he has to learn that he is running hard to the finish line, but he took a wrong turn on the track and can't win the race.


Sums it up well.

OP, above is what you need to know and convince your husband of!!!


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Hicks said:


> I think you have to read the entirety of the posts I wrote.
> 
> You have to complement him and reassure him that you know his heart is in the right place. Then point out his work and effort are missing the target.
> 
> Most younger men (myself included) think that being a husband is 90% about money. You worry about money, debt, kids futures.... So you get driven in your career. And you think it's the exact right thing that your wife wants and needs. But it's incorrect. Somehow he has to learn that he is running hard to the finish line, but he took a wrong turn on the track and can't win the race.


How did you realize yourself that money and career are not all its about?


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## Anonymous07 (Aug 4, 2012)

Kag123, 

I haven't read all of the posts, but what seems to be a major issue(beyond your husband not thinking beyond his own selfishness - made a huge career decision without you) is the credit card and student loan debt you have, which holds you back from having more time with your family. Have you looked into consolidating your debt? Can you switch banks to a credit union(they have much less fees and offer better rates/loan offers/ etc)? If you can get more of the debt handled, it can give you more options to really be with your kids and husband.


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## Nikita2270 (Mar 22, 2014)

kag123 said:


> Well "let him come to his own conclusions and not try to convince him of anything" is the road I've been taking for the last 1.5 years or so. This is kind of what I meant when I mentioned my whole attempt at being more submissive.
> 
> However...here I am. Unhappy and posting my life on a marriage forum.
> 
> ...



My advice...don't stay quiet at all...I did that for a long, long time and it was awful. That doesn't mean I think you should yell or threaten either. I think you need to sit down with your husband and clearly explain your expectations.

Before you do that though. I think you need to figure out what exactly you want and need...together you should balance both of your individual needs against what the family needs and come to a conclusion.

Mostly, you need to spend some time figuring out what your limits are. If he's unwilling to work with you on this...what are you prepared to do and how will you do it.

I can tell you that I had a very difficult situation with my ex husband and I carefully planned my divorce for almost 7 years. There were definitely some similarities with some of the things you described. I didn't soothe it by taking medication but I almost made myself pretty sick. By the time I finally planned my exit from the marriage, I had MAJOR vitamin deficiencies. I was suffering from anxiety, allergic reactions and was always tired. 

I tried to work with him but he refused so I carefully planned my exit. By the time I left, I owned my own house...bought my own car with cash and had a plan for my retirement account transfers. For me, it was all about not giving up the nest egg that I had worked my whole life for. 

It wasn't easy to give up the house that we had built...my garden...the wall where I marked the height of my kids growing. And at first, the transition for my kids wasn't easy....change never is. But today, my kids and are happier than we've ever been. I truly wake up every single day happier than the day before. I really am just grateful to be on the right side of the dirt and to have found a man that truly loves me from head to toe.

You should try everything you can to work this out with your husband....but ultimately, you need both of you to make this work. You can't hold down a career, have a good marriage and manage a family without a partner who you can rely on to be in it with you.

I can tell you that these days, my new partner and I manage careers and kids really well because we do it together. We talk a lot...we both make compromises...and we don't sweat the small stuff. It takes balance and I truly hope you're able to work it out with your husband.


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## john117 (May 20, 2013)

It all depends how much you can get away from work, how much you can get away with at type of work, commute length, and many other factors. 

Your partner could be an awesomely helpful guy or gal but if the boss is not understanding then you're toast regardless.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Anonymous07 said:


> Kag123,
> 
> I haven't read all of the posts, but what seems to be a major issue(beyond your husband not thinking beyond his own selfishness - made a huge career decision without you) is the credit card and student loan debt you have, which holds you back from having more time with your family. Have you looked into consolidating your debt? Can you switch banks to a credit union(they have much less fees and offer better rates/loan offers/ etc)? If you can get more of the debt handled, it can give you more options to really be with your kids and husband.


I have been putting a lot of effort recently into trying to find consolidation options for us. 

Despite the large debts we have, H and I both have very good credit ratings so we get a lot of credit card offers in the mail that are decent. (They probably see us as a cash cow with our history...)

A couple of years ago I convinced H to take advantage of some of those offers that come our way that have the 0% introductory rates on balance transfers, figuring it would give us a chance to really make a dent at the overall balance without the interest. We sat down and calculated exactly what we wanted to transfer that could be paid off in the 0% interest period so we would know we'd have the balance gone before the true interest hit. I think it was an 18 month intro period. We got approved for a Cc limit much higher than what we actually transferred. 

Then a few months into this, we had two major car repairs unexpectedly and had no way to pay for them except with CC. We ended up using the new CC to do it because it was the only card with enough available on it. It was one of those things where the car dies on a Friday and we absolutely have to get to work on Monday....that blew our repayment plan entirely. Now we are paying interest again and it made pretty much no difference to make that balance transfer. 

H is angry that he went along with my idea and now we have another card to pay. He won't let me forget it. He is now incredibly hesitant to take any of my financial advice or even discuss finances with me. He does not want to move balances or do anything to the cards now because he fears that it will send us down a rabbit hole. He won't even entertain the idea or look at options. it's really not a good situation, that he won't even talk to me about It. 

For student loans, we have consolidated those down to the lowest they can go. His payment is still $600/month just because of the amount of debt he has.


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## kag123 (Feb 6, 2012)

*Re: Re: How do you balance two careers and kids?*



Nikita2270 said:


> And I really do have to shake my head at all the posters suggesting that this woman cut back her position at work for a lesser job.
> 
> I absolutely would never do that given what she's described about her husband. Its completely dangerous. How many women on this forum don't work and then come in there whining because they need to leave their crappy marriage and have ZERO means to support themselves and their children.
> 
> And why exactly is it always the female who should cut back at work...what about her husband?


I'd like to share a little of my background that I think plays heavily into my hesitation to leave my career or change it...

I am an only child. I was a "latchkey" kid and was largely alone from a young age. Both of my parents had very successful careers and made a lot of money. We had a nice home and nice things. However, my parents always wanted to teach me a work ethic and the value of money so they never just handed me money or things. If I wanted something, they would say "we buy things with OUR money that we earn, where is your money?"

I had to get a job and manage my own finances starting at a young age. Fwiw - I don't think they were wrong to do this. I have been working since I was 13, even from that young age I worked longer hours than any of my other peers and was more careful with my money than them. And as I said earlier, I worked thru college and paid for my own living expenses plus part of my tuition while in school. 

The thought of being 100% financially tied to someone scares me to death. I am fiercely independent by nature and I guess because of my upbringing I have never truly learned how to give over all of myself to someone else. It has been hard for me being married to attempt to work as part of a team while also soothing myself with some independence as well...A back up plan if you will. 

In my past I walked away when there were problems. I was a serial monogamist and have had other long term serious relationships before my H, that I walked away from when things got to a point where I felt the losses outweighed the gains. I always had a plan to cut ties at a moments notice. 

Marraige is the first time I have made an effort to let that mentality go. Especially now that we have kids. It's not just me to think about anymore. It's about being vulnerable and feeling safe. As I get older I realize that I have never experienced the true potential of a relationship with another person. I love my husband and want to try to be more vulnerable with him...it's just terrifying, and he does things that make recoil and rebuild my safety net. 

I try to force myself out of my comfort zone a little bit at a time by giving over control to H and trying to let go. For example, he is the leader of our finances. A few years ago I would never have let that happen. I know our money coming In and going out and still keep an eye on things but he pays the bills, and he has the ultimate veto power on all major financial decisions. That's huge for me. 

I see my job as my last stand at independence. It's the last thing that is MINE and only mine. Our marraige, kids, house, pets and so on are all shared responsibility. My job is the one thing I have where I unilaterally am responsible for my career, what happens there, whether I get that next promotion or raise, etc. It gives me great personal satisfaction to have this job. It terrifies me to think of making major changes like changing to a lesser job or switching paths. 

And my Instinct in times of relationship trouble is to run. But I have purposely forced myself to try to overcome that urge to stay and make this work. I know that all marriages have times of trouble and that running isn't the answer. It's just unbelievably hard for me to be "all in" and relinquish all of my control over to the marriage.


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