# Is it me? Am I cheatonable?



## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.

This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?

Was it me?


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## Liesandlies (Oct 24, 2013)

I'm not sure you entirely want an answer and certainly don't take mine to heart I have no formal training. I personally believe people are programmed from childhood to go for a certain type. Like abused children often can end up in abusive relationships. Kids raised by alcoholics may choose the same for their spouse. Not consciously of course. As much as I hate to admit this... I can draw similarities between me and my mil. In no way does this justify bad behaviour, I just think sometimes people seek out what's familiar... The dynamics they are used to.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Cheatonable.. I like that word. Walkoverable. Doormatified. Mm.

The feeling's mutual, except for a few occasions on my part.

I'm considering on perpetuating the 180. A slightly modified one, less "dark" if you will.

Doesn't hurt to try. We have tasted every version of hurt, right?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

verpin zal said:


> Cheatonable.. I like that word. Walkoverable. Doormatified. Mm.
> 
> The feeling's mutual, except for a few occasions on my part.
> 
> ...


Oh, yeah, indeed we have!


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

I often wonder why being cheated on by my first wife didn't seem be any incentive for my second wife to stay faithful. One of life's great mysteries I guess.


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

We seem to have some holographic sign over our heads, slowly rotating, saying "It's easy to fool this person", like angels' halo. Only we can't see it, everyone else can.


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## HangingOnHope (Oct 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> 
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?
> 
> Was it me?


Did you fail to notice a pattern? It is an interesting question..and a valid one at that, imo.

What do you think is the answer? In retrospect, do you now notice there was any pattern? To the type of woman or to the type of relationship dynamics?


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## Betrayedred (Jun 16, 2013)

We're trusting. If you're a trusting person, then you are cheatonable. Absolutely. And the stupid thing about a trusting person (I'm one of them) is that we don't WANT to be untrusting. At least I don't. I don't want to be notcheatonable, because that means that I would be constantly going around, checking up and investigating everyone and everything. Right?


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## verpin zal (Feb 23, 2013)

Betrayedred is right. I would choose to be "trusting" over a life in which I'll constantly keep looking back over my shoulder, snooping, monitoring, keylogging, interrogating.. Pff even writing these is depressing.


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## mineforever (Jan 31, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> 
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?
> 
> Was it me?


MattMatt you know better than to think it was you. You can't control another persons actions only they can and no matter what a spouse does in a relationship it doesn't warrant cheating on them. If a spouse is that misserable then they should end the relationship befor starting a new one. I have read way to many of your post MattMatt...not your fault quit trying to make sense out of other peoples messed up actions. ;-)
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

HangingOnHope said:


> Did you fail to notice a pattern? It is an interesting question..and a valid one at that, imo.
> 
> What do you think is the answer? In retrospect, do you now notice there was any pattern? To the type of woman or to the type of relationship dynamics?


First girl friend dumped me for a rich property developer. (He wasn't, as it transpired) Second girl friend dumped me for a woman. My wife cheated on me with a former lover. Though she was honest enough to tell me in advance that she was going to cheat.

Oh, yeah. Girl friend in between second girl friend and wife also cheated on me.

Not seeing a pattern...


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## Oldrandwisr (Jun 22, 2013)

I must wear the label somewhere. 

All three had at least an EA, even though I discussed loyalty as the #1 deal breaker at the beginning of each. 

They must look for a certain trait, which I was blessed with the naïve nature of a trusting, codependent doormat. 

Looking back, pre-TAM, there were gas lighting trials that I passed with flying colors prior to the "I love you" declaration. None of them were good communicators as far as bringing up issues of discontent. Most likely, in their minds, it justified the cheating option which was easier than dealing with discord or working to improve things between us.

Of course, this is all hindsight and I have learned what mine looked for. I don't have that label anymore and definitely recognize the flags.


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

I agree with Liesandlies

We are attracted to a certain type. It is not that you are cheatable, but more that it is what you are attracted to. Perhaps next time go with the total opposite of what you are normally attracted to.

I think you know my story, as you have given me good advise. When I am ready, I will go to the total opposite of what I am attracted to. Perhaps I will be lucky, I always went for the good looking, attractive white male (that is what I like), sort of unreachable, next time I will go for the total opposite! If there will ever a next time 

Good luck Matt!


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

Me too, Matt. Thank you for asking, I'll keep reading.

I do think, though, that it's similar to how predatory men choose women who have been previously abused. My T taught me that conditioned people simply don't see the warning signs, as abnormal has been the normal for years, if not decades. So the FOO theory holds water. As a result, predators (predatory women do this too) hone in on blurred boundaries, low self-esteem, people-pleasing and a willingness to avoid conflict. They look for those traits in people they date just as a healthy person looks for things like emotional balance, financial security, actions which match words and a partner's solid relationship with their healthy FOO.

Obviously, I was (and still am, to a bigger degree than I'd like) the former rather than the latter.


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## TikiKeen (Oct 14, 2013)

I forgot to add that when we change ourselves, those predators aren't attracted to us.


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## HangingOnHope (Oct 26, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> First girl friend dumped me for a rich property developer. (He wasn't, as it transpired) Second girl friend dumped me for a woman. My wife cheated on me with a former lover. Though she was honest enough to tell me in advance that she was going to cheat.
> 
> Oh, yeah. Girl friend in between second girl friend and wife also cheated on me.
> 
> Not seeing a pattern...



 I'm sorry. Can I ask if you (typically) have long courting periods before you get into a committed relationship?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

Me too Matt...

I think it's that they pick us. People who are likely to cheat look for a certain type of person to hook up with. They look for someone how trusting and has weak boundaries.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

HangingOnHope said:


> I'm sorry. Can I ask if you (typically) have long courting periods before you get into a committed relationship?


Quite a while. Though since I have been with my wife for 25 years, not sure if I can remember!:smthumbup:


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah. There is a reason why we get the same guys on here everyday. And its not about being trusting. I trust people but i learn and pick up on red flags. I also learn from the mistakes of others. People always judge you. Everyday. And if you show weaknesss people notice. Always. And if you wanted to reconcile when the first wife cheated, then the second one will likely weigh that, if she is tempted.


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## WalterWhite (Sep 14, 2012)

MattMatt could it be that you're not a very good judge of character? This does not make you a bad person. Perhaps it just means that you're too trusting, and not cynical enough.


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## illwill (Feb 21, 2013)

WalterWhite said:


> MattMatt could it be that you're not a very good judge of character? This does not make you a bad person. Perhaps it just means that you're too trusting, and not cynical enough.


You gotta became bitter like me.


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## mace17 (Jul 12, 2013)

There is some truth to the fact that people pick similar spouses to their parent of the opposite sex. I seem to keep ending up with controlling men like my father, although they are getting less obvious now, not sure if that's a good thing or not. You reed to fix your own problems first and then you can find a good healthy relationship, or so I've heard anyway. I'm seriously considering trying it or staying celibate.


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Did you dump all theses women that cheated on you as soon as you found out?


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

How do you define controlling?


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## morituri (Apr 1, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> First girl friend dumped me for a rich property developer. (He wasn't, as it transpired) Second girl friend dumped me for a woman. My wife cheated on me with a former lover. Though she was honest enough to tell me in advance that she was going to cheat.
> 
> Oh, yeah. Girl friend in between second girl friend and wife also cheated on me.
> 
> Not seeing a pattern...


I am haunted by your forgiveness. You are a man above all others.


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Liesandlies said:


> I'm not sure you entirely want an answer and certainly don't take mine to heart I have no formal training.* I personally believe people are programmed from childhood to go for a certain type*. Like abused children often can end up in abusive relationships. Kids raised by alcoholics may choose the same for their spouse. Not consciously of course. As much as I hate to admit this... I can draw similarities between me and my mil. In no way does this justify bad behaviour, I just think sometimes people seek out what's familiar... The dynamics they are used to.


This.. this is spot on

I was cheated on too and yes I went for the same people, people who had issues, certainly it was the perfect formula, me the nice guy trying to save them, and them whose warning signs I willfully ignored until it was too late.

Matt, the signs must have been there. Did you try to fix them and plow on like many of us did or did you ignore the signs until it was too late?


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## NextTimeAround (Dec 15, 2011)

Since I have described on this message board being in 2 LTRs in which my partner having OSFs has caused problems in the relationship, I am accused now of having a poor partner picker even though no suggestions as to how to improve my picker are given. I don't think that's useful advice.

MattMatt, look for patterns in your behavior, situations and partners. 

Interestingly enough, I have had LTRs in which the guy did not have female friends and one of them said that he was against them in general.


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## Philat (Sep 12, 2013)

I think it's simply the other side of the coin: Anyone can cheat given the right circumstances, hence anyone can be cheated on.


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## jen53 (Apr 26, 2013)

verpin zal said:


> We seem to have some holographic sign over our heads, slowly rotating, saying "It's easy to fool this person", like angels' halo. Only we can't see it, everyone else can.


I think that is what it is - we somehow gravitate to people who see our vulnerability, I have been thinking and going over and over - I actually haven't had a relationship with a man who didn't cheat on me, or had some issue  I went into the relationship with my husband smugly sighing a sigh of relief that I had found a true soul mate, and a good person after all we had been friends first  obviously he saw mug on my forehead


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> Did you dump all theses women that cheated on you as soon as you found out?


No. I got dumped. My first girl friend gave me a load of rubbish about how some relationships burn hotly, but briefly and ours was one of those and it was over.

However I found out later that she had met someone she thought was rich and who could provide a home for her little girl. 

Second girl friend broke up with me with a tear-stained letter, third girl friend just vanished and would never answer my calls or letters. It transpired she'd been two-timing me and married her other boy friend. Which, she admitted later to my mother, she bitterly regretted, as she realised she should have married me. Ah, well.

And then I met the woman who became my wife.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

NextTimeAround said:


> Since I have described on this message board being in 2 LTRs in which my partner having OSFs has caused problems in the relationship, I am accused now of having a poor partner picker even though no suggestions as to how to improve my picker are given. I don't think that's useful advice.
> 
> MattMatt, look for patterns in your behavior, situations and partners.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I have had LTRs in which the guy did not have female friends and one of them said that he was against them in general.


They were all, physically, very different. And, or so I thought, in their personalities, too.

Maybe it was just bad luck?:scratchhead:


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## bfree (Sep 30, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> 
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?
> 
> Was it me?


Maybe you put too much emphasis on the one that you're in the relationship with and not enough emphasis on yourself in the relationship. People often think if they can be the perfect husband or the perfect wife they are secure. But you have to have enough self respect to demand that your needs are met at least as much as making sure you are meeting their needs. If you always put yourself on the backburner people will follow suit and get used to putting you there too.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> This.. this is spot on
> 
> I was cheated on too and yes I went for the same people, people who had issues, certainly it was the perfect formula, me the nice guy trying to save them, and them whose warning signs I willfully ignored until it was too late.
> 
> Matt, the signs must have been there. Did you try to fix them and plow on like many of us did or did you ignore the signs until it was too late?


Word for word me there

Although I know I'm intrinsically not to blame for being cheated on I do blame myself for the choice of woman I go for ( or who goes for me) they are I now see 'victims' 'broken wings' ' personality disordered women' and who have had problems trusting people who hurt them maybe in childhood.

I think I then show them trust beyond anything they will ever realize and eventually with my weak boundaries because I trust them so much they abuse it

That's the short version of my problem and my choices. 

Couple of friends have said I seem to go for 'dangerous' girls, slightly kooky, cute ones that have the potential to turn around and rip you to pieces. While I am showing them, giving them so much of myself and love them, want no barriers to what they can achieve for themselves.

I see now they eventually take it all for granted and lose respect for you and then bang your backup plan B or C 

I've been separated for for 18 months and have no desire to hook up with anybody right now but at some point I will want to start again but I know I cannot go there again with the same type 

Not again


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## 86857 (Sep 5, 2013)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?
> Was it me?


Love your 'threads with a twist' MattMatt. 
Now you are wondering why you are a repeat offendee. . . 

Anyone can be cheated on, even cheaters. = 3 x evil laughs.

Are you away from home for long periods of time, are you perhaps a sailor on the high seas by any chance? 
Do you snore? 
Do you keep having affairs making your beloved feel obliged to have one too?
Do you wear your socks to bed? 
Do you have any hair? If so is it what colour is it?
Do you wear spectacles? If so are you short or long sighted?
Do you carry a shotgun? If so how often?
Do you have rheumatic fever when you were a child?
Do you prefer coffee or tea?
Do you take sugar in your coffee or tea?
Do you cry at the movies?
Are you very rich and very old and falling for very young cutsies?
What is your favourite colour?

I don't know how well you did in my little quiz but I think what I am trying to say it that it is random and not of your own making. 
I also think that it is now a galloping epidemic due to the current 'it's all about me' thinking in the first world combined with the advent of mobile phones and the internet

*Facebook - the place to go if your marriage has lost its zing and you begin to get all misty-eyed about your first love in high school and want to reconnect.:rofl:*

Don't forget there are many who have been cheated on, maybe even more than once who don't know it and never will. The blissfully ignorant BSs. Come to that I could be one myself! 
You may have more company than you think.

Just plain bad luck I would say. Try not to wear your socks in bed though just to be on the safe side. :smthumbup:


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## 6301 (May 11, 2013)

I have a friend that is a very easy going guy. Good husband and dad doesn't go bar hopping and takes care of his family. His wife is a nice woman but a control freak or was. She used to control him by withholding sex on him. Always tell him when she didn't get her way that "all this is off limits" She would say that to him while pointing at all of the intimate parts of her body. 

One day at my house we had a cook out and he's working the grill. She wanted something out of the car and he couldn't get it because her was the chef of the day with the grill. 

She pulled the "all this is off limits" BS on him and that day finally changed him. I think it was that it embarrassed him the way she did it and it made him look like a fool and he finally stood his ground and in a very nice and joking manner, let her know that she could shove it sideways with the threats about withholding sex. 

Most of us were happy that he finally stood his ground including some of the ladies. His wife wasn't real happy about it and when they go home, she lit in to him about it.

Point I'm trying to make is this. He is a real easy going guy and is real even tempered person but, you can only be like that to a point and sooner or later changes have to be made. Well he changed them and dropped the hammer on her. He let her know that her constant threats of no sex and the way she belittles him gas run it's course and if she didn't get a change of attitude and do it quickly, she was going to be on the receiving end of a life changing experience and he told her that he would drop her and her attitude like a hot potato. He then started to think about what he wanted out of her and told her that. If she wasn't able to comply, then she was free to move on.

It's one thing to be a nice guy. It's a different ball game to let someone walk on you. She didn't cheat. She just had a $h!tty attitude and made him the scape goat. He stood up for himself and it paid off.


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> *Though she was honest enough to tell me in advance that she was going to cheat.
> *


*Which is greatly tantamount to a woman just pulling out a dagger and stabbing you right through the heart with it!*


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## BobSimmons (Mar 2, 2013)

Headspin said:


> Word for word me there
> 
> Although I know I'm intrinsically not to blame for being cheated on I do blame myself for the choice of woman I go for ( or who goes for me) they are I now see 'victims' 'broken wings' ' personality disordered women' and who have had problems trusting people who hurt them maybe in childhood.
> 
> ...


Operative word, but so important. The more the think you're trying to do right by them the less respect they have. For me it's the same, no more, an absolute zero tolerance approach to any nonsense. 

Even if I'm flirting with a girl, the slightest whiff of BS it's goodbye. Certainly hasn't done any harm. The alarm system needed to be installed a very long time ago, unfortunately had to be cheated on to get it.

But I think the funny thing about it is the absolute clarity it gives me. We complicate life too much with indecision and veering headfirst into the grey areas and extenuating circumstances. It doesn't matter what problems the lady came with, they stop with me. I'm not a fixer or a healer, I will work with you but you will respect me, if not, goodbye. Very simple.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> Though she was honest enough to tell me in advance that she was going to cheat.


How did you respond to her telling you this? 

What were the circumstances? 

Surely you took that statement from her as her breaking up with you.


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## RWB (Feb 6, 2010)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> 
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, *but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?*
> 
> Was it me?


Matt,

After "finding" out the truth, my wife was a serial cheater, I too pondered the why? Really, she was the last person that I thought would cheat and keep up the lie for years on end.

As an analytical scientist type person, I tried to figure it out from a every angle. I come to a few conclusions...

*First, the statistics are just plain wrong. *

No one, not the Mayo Clinic to the CDC to TAM has a clue how many married women cheat on their husbands. For every 1 that is caught... 5 more could get a way with it. Who knows? All you can do is look at the world you know personally and draw your own conclusions. 

My wife's a teacher, early on after DD, she told me that all 5 of her fellow teachers on grade level admitted to her that they had been unfaithful in marriage and 3 of the 5 had never come clean or had been caught. The had no intention of every telling. 

At my work, the "grapevine" let out that I had been cheated on for years by my wife. Over the next few weeks, a dozen or so male co-workers would seek me out to tell me their same sad story. Race, religion, age, length of marriage, kids or not, it didn't matter. 

My own MC admitted to me that the stats are a joke. She has to turn down men who need her service due to case volume. 

My conclusion... married women have so much more opportunity to cheat than men can every fathom and they are oh so much better at hiding and sealing their secret.


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

RWB said:


> My conclusion... married women have so much more opportunity to cheat than men can every fathom and they are oh so much better at hiding and sealing their secret.


Who are all those married women cheating with? Do you think it might be married men?


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I am coming to the conclusion that I have a faulty selection process.
If there were 99 healthy women in a room and 1 unhealthy woman - I would be drawn to the unhealthy woman. I would say to myself "there is something about her I like." 

But that is just me.


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## Headspin (May 13, 2012)

bigtone128 said:


> I am coming to the conclusion that I have a faulty selection process.
> If there were 99 healthy women in a room and 1 unhealthy woman - I would be drawn to the unhealthy woman. I would say to myself "there is something about her I like."
> 
> But that is just me.



hahaha yep .......I can relate to that


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

MattMatt said:


> Several of my relationships have ended because of the fact that I was cheated on. And my wife cheated on me, too.
> 
> This is, really, only a rhetorical question, but why was I cheated on so many times? Did I fail to notice a pattern?
> 
> Was it me?


Yes you keep dating the same type of women.


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## theroad (Feb 20, 2012)

RWB said:


> My wife's a teacher, early on after DD, she told me that all 5 of her fellow teachers on grade level admitted to her that they had been unfaithful in marriage and 3 of the 5 had never come clean or had been caught. The had no intention of every telling.
> 
> My conclusion... married women have so much more opportunity to cheat than men can every fathom and they are oh so much better at hiding and sealing their secret.


So true.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

BobSimmons said:


> This.. this is spot on
> 
> I was cheated on too and yes I went for the same people, people who had issues, certainly it was the perfect formula, me the nice guy trying to save them, and them whose warning signs I willfully ignored until it was too late.
> 
> Matt, the signs must have been there. Did you try to fix them and plow on like many of us did or did you ignore the signs until it was too late?


Sometimes there were signs, which I ignored. (In love, you see...) Other times there were no signs, so I was blindsided.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

theroad said:


> Yes you keep dating the same type of women.


They were all apparently different. Maybe they weren't all that different?


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## EleGirl (Dec 3, 2011)

MattMatt said:


> They were all apparently different. Maybe they weren't all that different?


I have read some things from psychiatrists that say if we see someone across a crowded room and feel immediately attracted to them... run. The feeling of attraction comes from our subconscious picking up on subtle things that identify that their physiological problems mesh with ours.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

As one of my ex-boyfriends just said to me, "STOP TAKING IN STRAYS! STICK TO THE 4 LEGGED ONES!" Funnily enough.. He was one of the first of the strays.. lol.. 


I think it's that "broken wing" syndrome.. We are going to swoop in and help them.. Fix them.. make them better.. And instead, they just damage us more.. 

I'm done.. I'm tired of trying to help wounded people from broken relationships.. My STBXH has broken me.. It's MY time.. I'm fixing me.. I'm making ME better.. 

But yes, I've been told that I'm "too easy going" "too independent" I don't make men feel "needed" enough.. (cuz that's an excuse to cheat" 

And sadly enough.. all I wanted was someone to love me.. 

F*ck that.. I'M going to love me.. and my kids.. B/c apparently I'm all that's needed to fix someone.. Now I just need to fix me! LOL.. just kidding.. but.. hopefully not..


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

EleGirl said:


> I have read some things from psychiatrists that say if we see someone across a crowded room and feel immediately attracted to them... run. The feeling of attraction comes from our subconscious picking up on subtle things that identify that their physiological problems mesh with ours.


Could be.

But here's a crazy thing. I still, somewhere, still have love for my ex-girl friends. 

Is this why "catching up" with an old lover is such a dangerous idea? :scratchhead:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Philat said:


> I think it's simply the other side of the coin: Anyone can cheat given the right circumstances, hence anyone can be cheated on.


If my math is right the odds that Mattmatt just happens to pick bad is 1 cance out of 81. By just luck he should have have had 2 or 3 faithful women out of 4. 

I think the fact Matt's wife actually told him she was going to test drive a newer model to see if she wanted to trade up, is one of the coldest, heartless examples we have seen. Its like murder in the first degree. The fact that Matt was willing to take her back, some how figures into his ability to pick the wrong women.

The upside is that he could turn this into a profitable consulting business.


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Honestly, yes, I think so.. B/c my ex-boyfriend that I still talk to occasionally? he sounds REALLY good right now.. Why? Probably b/c the whole "evil you know vs. the evil you don't" in some ways.. 

In my case, that ex IS a nice guy, just a lousy boyfriend.. But yes, I think sometimes we glamorize the past.. forget the bad, remember the good, etc.. 

In some ways, I still adore my ex boyfriend, although I remember how bad he was for me.. However, I also remember how SAFE he made me feel, and I know right now that's something I'm craving.. I think it's why I'm dreaming about a. him, and b. dating a cop (which he is/was) 

I think the difference is that I know that I'm dreaming about him and dating cops b/c I feel the need to be safe, and some people (OUR EXES FOR EXAMPLE) don't have that self awareness. They just seek out exes or cops.. To fill that need.. 

maybe?


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

Chaparral said:


> If my math is right the odds that Mattmatt just happens to pick bad is 1 cance out of 81. By just luck he should have have had 2 or 3 faithful women out of 4.
> 
> I think the fact Matt's wife actually told him she was going to test drive a newer model to see if she wanted to trade up, is one of the coldest, heartless examples we have seen. Its like murder in the first degree. The fact that Matt was willing to take her back, some how figures into his ability to pick the wrong women.
> 
> The upside is that he could turn this into a profitable consulting business.


He was actually an older model. A *much* older model. 

I did have *one* faithful girl friend. Who turned out to be quite mad. Reminds me of the Blackadder joke:



> He's mad! He's mad. He's madder than Mad Jack McMad, the winner of this year's Mr Madman competition.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

browneyes74 said:


> Honestly, yes, I think so.. B/c my ex-boyfriend that I still talk to occasionally? he sounds REALLY good right now.. Why? Probably b/c the whole "evil you know vs. the evil you don't" in some ways..
> 
> In my case, that ex IS a nice guy, just a lousy boyfriend.. But yes, I think sometimes we glamorize the past.. forget the bad, remember the good, etc..
> 
> ...


Dreaming about a relationship with cops? Well, why not buy yourself a pair of handcuffs for your bedroom? Oh, wait!  That doesn't sound right, does it? Sorry!


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

Funnily enough, I used to, and still, say, 

I used his handcuffs more than he did! bwa ha ha ha..


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

bfree said:


> Maybe you put too much emphasis on the one that you're in the relationship with and not enough emphasis on yourself in the relationship. People often think if they can be the perfect husband or the *perfect wife they are secure.* *But you have to have enough self respect to demand that your needs are met at least as much as making sure you are meeting their needs. If you always put yourself on the backburner people will follow suit and get used to putting you there too*.


:iagree:


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## Chaparral (Jul 17, 2011)

Certain types of people are way more likely to cheat. Some professions, teachers, medical, sahms, law enorcement. 

The more people someone comes into contact with the more likely they are to cheat.

The more beautiful, the more likely a woman is to get hit on and be seduced.

The more premarital partners a woman has the more likely she is to cheat.

These are just some of the indicators I have read about.

Modern womens morals have changed. The owner of A M. now says more women than men are signing up for his cheating website in Australia, supposedly the most progressive country with respect to womens equallity. Isn't that a scary correlation?


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## ne9907 (Jul 17, 2013)

> I have read some things from psychiatrists that say if we see someone across a crowded room and feel immediately attracted to them... run. The feeling of attraction comes from our subconscious picking up on subtle things that identify that their physiological problems mesh with ours.


On another note, I have had dreams about an ex of mine from a very long time ago. Maybe I should NOT contact him once I am fully healed (yeah, I thought about doing it!! Shame on me!). He will probably be just the same as stbxh..... scary thought.


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## azteca1986 (Mar 17, 2013)

A very interesting question, MattMatt. Let mr preface what I'm about to post that I in no way condone or excuse infidelity. If you've read any of my posts that should be clear. However, the question posed is: What is about me that makes me cheatonable?



Betrayedred said:


> We're trusting. If you're a trusting person, then you are cheatonable. Absolutely. And the stupid thing about a trusting person (I'm one of them) is that we don't WANT to be untrusting. At least I don't. I don't want to be notcheatonable, because that means that I would be constantly going around, checking up and investigating everyone and everything. Right?


Wrong. All those investigative processes are only necessary once you you're dealing with someone who in untrustworthy. See, if my marriage deteriorates to the point where I have to invest in VARs, keyloggers or spyware I know my marriage is too far gone. I just don't want to live like that (either).



EleGirl said:


> Me too Matt...
> 
> I think it's that they pick us. People who are likely to cheat look for a certain type of person to hook up with. They look for someone how trusting and has weak boundaries.


I agree. We all want to be trusting, in fact we should be, until we have reasons to revise our opinions. There are a couple of very common themes on TAM that we see repeated; where people are _too trusting_ and pay the price.

1. The belief that your partner would never cheat - yet time and again it happens

2. They ignore their gut or obvious red flags - "I noticed six months ago that my partner was being distant but..." or "I thought she was texting her co-worker too often and it made me feel uncomfortable but I didn't want to be controlling/called paranoid..." - The 'but' in both cases is because of having too much faith in (1.)

I think both are signs of being too trusting. Neither behaviour makes for a healthy relationship. Blindly trusting your spouse is not love; it's lazy, it's complacent. And complacency is part of the 50% of the problems in a marriage that leave room for us to be cheated on.



Philat said:


> I think it's simply the other side of the coin: *Anyone can cheat given the right circumstances*, hence anyone can be cheated on.


This is the great lesson I've learned from TAM (as well as boundaries). It applies to my wife. It applies to me. As I see it, it's in the best interests marriage to think of ourselves in that way. Our marriage is not automatically immune to infidelity. 

On EleGirl's point about weak boundaries; before I got to TAM I wasn't really aware of the absolute need to discuss and enforce them in a marriage. Below is the Buddhist take on Reconciliation. I've reproduced it all as it may help somebody out there. Written from the POV of a WS:



> Reconciliation — _patisaraniya-kamma_ — means a return to amicability, and that requires more than forgiveness. It requires the reestablishing of trust. If I deny responsibility for my actions, or maintain that I did no wrong, there’s no way we can be reconciled. *Similarly, if I insist that your feelings don’t matter, or that you have no right to hold me to your standards of right and wrong, you won’t trust me not to hurt you again. *To regain your trust, I have to show my respect for you and for our mutual standards of what is and is not acceptable behavior; to admit that I hurt you and that I was wrong to do so; and to promise to exercise restraint in the future. At the same time, you have to inspire my trust, too, in the respectful way you conduct the process of reconciliation. Only then can our friendship regain a solid footing.


I was initially taken aback by the bolded statement. I'd always thought we shouldn't "judge people by our own standards". But on second reading that statement is all out boundaries. Exactly what are we willing and not willing to put up with? In a marriage it is our right, in fact our responsibility, to explicitly and assertively state the kind of qualities we expect our partner to have.

Our Big Four qualities:
1. Honesty
2. Integrity
3. Loyalty
4. Bravery

The more important you are in my life, the greater the need to exhibit these qualities. As the most important person in my life, my wife is held to the highest standards of all (and myself of course). As is clear these qualities that we've mutually agreed on and value are incompatible with engaging in an illicit affair. To me these are 'human quality' boundaries; we have no future as a relationship if we don't have the basics in place.

If we take a very common red flag - guarding the phone - we can see it fails on points 1, 2 & 3. There's no valid excuse for it. It's unacceptable in our marriage. It's a clear and defined boundary. 

So, the two traits that make you susceptible to being cheatonable (cool word) are blind trust and letting people behave in untrustworthy ways.


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## missthelove2013 (Sep 23, 2013)

that sucks...that we as men blame ourselves...maybe were horrible in bed, maybe we lack something...

I think it has more to do with the partners we choose than who WE are as men/lovers/providers...you are not cheatonable...but maybe you are attracted to cheaters, or women who have the high possibility of cheating...

im not even sure what that is though...what makes a woman a high-likelyhood-cheater??? The two women I know well who are serial cheaters were very attractive, hot...and NEVER seemed to get enough male attention...both had daddy issues...both always dated men who were "dating up" with them...these girls were always a tad out of the league of the guys they DATED/married

neither of these girls just went out and banged...it always started with "oh hes just a friend at the bar"...they ALWAYS eased into it, put themselves in inappropriate situation, graduated from aquaintence to friend to close friend to ea to pa to DUMPED...yes, dumped...men screw married women for ONE reason, they are forbidden fruit, they are NOT available, they are casual sex...when the married woman dumps the husband or starts talking about leaving him, the om is gone!!!!


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## russell28 (Apr 17, 2013)

Chaparral said:


> Certain types of people are way more likely to cheat. Some professions, teachers, medical, sahms, law enorcement.
> 
> The more people someone comes into contact with the more likely they are to cheat.
> 
> ...


This is a big one.. when I was young, I always had problems with girlfriends being hit on by guys, because, well.. they were hot.. and yes, my wife, very attractive.. that's a big factor. I've always been attracted to social types, that are people pleasers... so yea, pretty, likes to make people happy, social.. history of cheating in family.. you're in trouble.


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## Aerith (May 17, 2013)

MrMathias said:


> I often wonder why being cheated on by my first wife didn't seem be any incentive for my second wife to stay faithful. One of life's great mysteries I guess.


Frankly speaking I cannot see the connection... How your first wife cheating was supposed to be incentives for your second wife? :scratchhead:


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## arbitrator (Feb 13, 2012)

Aerith said:


> Frankly speaking I cannot see the connection... How your first wife cheating was supposed to be incentives for your second wife? :scratchhead:


*In my honest opinion, there is no real correlation about cheating between the spouses. 

My first wife committed her infidelity quid pro quo for a lucrative job promotion where she "Peter Principled!" ~ No pun intended! I truly believe that she had never cheated before, but when presented with the opportunity of receiving a once in a lifetime promo, she did the math and hastily acquiesed!

My wealthy XW, I have since learned, had BF's on the side and also had a known reputation for even cheating on her first H while he was off in alcohol/drug rehab. If that truly was the case, she had already been fastidiously schooled in disconnection techniques from her H's and reconnection techniques with her BF's.

Compared to my first wife, my rich, skanky XW just seemed to be the consummate pro!*


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## hookares (Dec 7, 2011)

Cheatonable? Is that even a word? I think marriage works for some people but not everybody. The factors involved are many and unless one finds a partner who will be brutally frank when asked about not just their SO's faults, but their own, as well, it's jsut not going to work for everyone.


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## sang-froid (May 2, 2013)

Philat said:


> I think it's simply the other side of the coin: Anyone can cheat given the right circumstances, hence anyone can be cheated on.


I don't agree. Despite my own being cheated on experience, I know that I would choose to avoid any scenario that I could foresee a temptation to cheat in and if I found myself in a situation where I was starting to feel temptation I would walk away before I got anywhere near going over the invisible line. Even if there was a no consequences guarantee I would choose this because I would not want to live with myself knowing that I had cheated. Given that I know this about myself, I like to have faith that there is at least small percentage of the population out there that would choose to do the same. 

As for the original question, only you can look at your own personality traits to see whether you have a little flashing "you can take advantage of me" sign that you don't realize is there. I think I have one. I'm much too accommodating of the needs of others, put myself last, have trouble asking for what I need, avoid confrontation and my definition of being treated badly is beyond what the average person would accept. So I guess mine was a flashing "doormat, please wipe your feet here!" sign, lol.


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## OnTheRocks (Sep 26, 2011)

Every long term relationship I've had (3 now) ended with my W/GF cheating. I fully expect my current one to end that way as well. I think a few factors of my persona contribute to it. 

I'm a good catch. Not to brag - just trying to illustrate my situation. I'm tall, pretty attractive from what I hear, athletic, smart, and have a six-figure salary. I don’t have issues picking up beautiful women, and I’d classify all of my significant exes as an 8+. Most beautiful women end up with a strong selfish/entitled streak by the time they’re out of college, in my experience. 

On the flipside, I am also pretty routine-based in my daily life, and I can get somewhat complacent with romance. I am also sort of ADD and always have a lot going on with work, sports, home projects, poker, racing, etc. I always try to get my SO’s interested in the activities that I enjoy, but if they aren’t, I’m like, “Okay, well, I guess I’m off to the lake with my friends. See you tonight.” 

I think the women I’ve been with end up getting bored with me, but do not want to drop a good catch, so they eventually try to cake eat. I am also good at reading people and my relationships, and I seem to pick up on it almost right away every time, and bust them. Doesn’t make it hurt any less, but at least reduces the wasted time.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

Yes. 

Having the creativity to come up with that word automatically makes you the word you came up with.

Sorry.

J/K


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## Standing Still (Sep 26, 2013)

Personally I think everyone is cheatonable. I think we always tend to think "what's wrong with me" because the act is such a personal stab to your heart and yourself but it really is the cheater who has the issues. They aren't thinking of what they are dong to you when they cheat, only what they want while they are cheating. In other words, its not you MattMatt!!


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## MrMathias (Nov 19, 2012)

Aerith said:


> Frankly speaking I cannot see the connection... How your first wife cheating was supposed to be incentives for your second wife? :scratchhead:


Well, my first wife cheated on me about 19 years ago, and my current wife and I became good friends at that point. She was someone I really leaned on emotionally. We became romantically involved a couple years later. She saw first hand, I think, how painful infidelity was for me. That _should_ make a difference, right? 

When my current wife's affair was revealed a little over a year ago, we had countless discussions about every aspect of our relationship. I'm sure you can imagine how bewildered I was by the fact that my wife not only knew I'd been cheated on before, but still cheated herself. I of course made all the mistakes a BS typically makes. Then, I found out about the FalseR- almost a year ago now. So, being cheated on many years ago, and cheated on again, didn't keep her from diving back into her affair. 

I guess the bottom line is that I was cheated on twice, very different circumstances and personalities involved each time. And cheaters caught up in their affair can't learn from the negative experiences of others. They're too wrapped up in what they're feeling to care enough to stop- or heaven forbid, avoid crossing into affair territory in the first place. 

Does that answer your question?


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## browneyes74 (Sep 1, 2013)

I get the first wife and 2nd wife thing to a certain degree.. 

Mine, and I've had friends of my STBXH say the same thing to me.. I never expected him to cheat.. 

BECAUSE, his first wife cheated on him.. Had her followed, the whole nine yards.. 

I look back at all his self-righteous anger, and think, you hypocritical bastard.. I even made the comment to him, that he's just like her.. 

Of course, it's all different.. But, honestly, his issue is more deep seated than that.. Not that he has the self-awareness to understand that.. 

I'm still trying to make the connection WHY I CHOOSE people who cheat.. I have never cheated.. I CAN'T fathom the idea of cheating.. 

In fact, I ended a 3 year relationship, b/c I found myself looking at other people and wondering.. I knew then, I was done.. I'm so ridiculously monogamous, it's not even funny.. 

But I'm beginning to think I'm not the norm.. I don't believe in "true love" or one "soul mate". I think there are many people we can connect to.. I am just unable to connect to more than one person at a time.. I'm not saying that I've never found another person attractive, or even casually flirted, but to me, that's the end of it.. it doesn't go any farther.. EVER. But, again, I think I'm the :scratchhead: on that one...


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

EleGirl said:


> I have read some things from psychiatrists that say if we see someone across a crowded room and feel immediately attracted to them... run. The feeling of attraction comes from our subconscious picking up on subtle things that identify that their physiological problems mesh with ours.


Yes, this attraction is based on projection. Psychological projection is the basis for 'limerance', that in-love feeling of complete engulfment we feel during the first couple years with a partner. Limerance is highly addictive and easily mistakable for love and unfortunately the source of ILYBINILWY. If you are telling yourself, I have to follow my heart and leave my partner for the OM or OW, that's limerance (and it's easier to deal with a crack addict). You can bring down the wrath of God on the wayward partner, but unless they somehow become aware of the illusion of the 'magical' other, they will not change course. 

Coincidentally, this is also the reason why arranged marriages have a lower rate of divorce ... less limerance. Projections erode over the life of a long term relationship. Your partner appears to have changed, but in reality you are seeing them as they truly are, without the lens of projection. 

Inside CWI we don't significantly delve into the true underpinnings of the wayward. We say they are broken, in some cases broken beyond repair. The truth, outside of psychological disorder, is the emotional health of a wayward was abused and they adapted to this wounding in an emotionally dysfunction manner. They will continue this adaption until *they* decide to address that wounding. While we can control conscious behavior over the short term, in the longer term the subconscious will eventually find its opening. 

So what am I saying to you Matt? You need to understand the underpinnings of your attraction to these women which means learning about the emotional needs you bring into a relationship. You will hear me say many times, 'You must own your side of the street'. When you do this I think you will find that you will be more attracted to a partner that owns her side of the street. It also follows that you should only consider reconciling with a wayward spouse if they are doing the work to understand why they needed to stray. That's a lot to ask of you and a lot to ask of a wayward ... it would be much easier to cut them loose, as appears to be the prevailing opinion inside CWI. Here's the rub ... avoiding the work merely pushes the issues into the next relationship as you have noted as the subject of this thread. Kindest Regards-


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## someone90 (May 31, 2013)

verpin zal said:


> We seem to have some holographic sign over our heads, slowly rotating, saying "It's easy to fool this person", like angels' halo. Only we can't see it, everyone else can.


Cheaters don't cheat because it's easy to fool their partners, it's because they want to cheat and for some reason you chose to marry people that want to cheat. 

It's not you that's pushing them to cheat or giving them the opportunity but you are definitely choosing people capable of doing it. There's something in that personality that you're attracted to for some reason, you need to figure out what that is...


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## bigtone128 (May 1, 2012)

I have a saying now...."if you are running TOWARDS a woman who everyone else is running AWAY from" it is not that you are brilliant and everyone else is stupid - everyone else is trying to tell you something.


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## ThePheonix (Jan 3, 2013)

Here's the thing. About 40% of people cheat on their spouse or S/O so your chances are pretty good to begin with. First, being a male, and from a male perspective, I've said time and time again a woman with a high romantic interest is not likely to cheat. Wives that cheat have a lost romantic interest. Guys cause this by not being a mystery and a challenge. Too many men get hung up on beautiful, high maintenance chicks. They become "pu--y whipped", wimp out and are no longer a challenge. Their wives lose respect and seek something more interesting. You've seen this many times. 
Second, you need to marry someone who loves you more than you love them. It makes being a challenge easier. 
Remember---When you relegate yourself to always saying, "yes my queen", you'll soon be saying, "how could she hurt me like this. I love her so much".


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## Jung_admirer (Jun 26, 2013)

bigtone128 said:


> I have a saying now...."if you are running TOWARDS a woman who everyone else is running AWAY from" it is not that you are brilliant and everyone else is stupid - everyone else is trying to tell you something.


Matt, you are looking for a marker that would indicate someone has taken a good look inside and discovered that they are complete, deserving and enough. Early in life, these people are called 'securely attached'. You can lookup attachment descriptions on the Internet, but generally these people come from a loving and stable family, are happy being alone but wanting to share their life with another. Also, people on the other side of a MLC may gain an understanding of themselves that supports a secure bond. 

You may have kissed a frog, but that doesn't mean she can't become a princess. The princess has to see the frog in the mirror and want to do something about it. Discovering that *you do not have* the magical powers to transform the frog despite every possible effort is the beginning of wisdom. The final question is: How long do you stand there holding a mirror? (note: I reject the position that a frog is always a frog and a cheater will always be a cheater. That would imply that emotional wounding cannot be healed and I have seen too many examples that run contrary to this)


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