# Do you think that the BS still can get some of the blame?



## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I often wonder if the majority of people when they hear about a couple rocked by infidelity if they think..hmmmmmm I wonder if the BS did something to contribute to it?

I know when it happened to me that I took on 90% of the blame of what H did...now I think totally different but at the time...

I remember lots of people giving me marital advice which is looking back another clue that maybe they were thinking it was something I was doing or not doing. I don't know..I remember SIL telling me how to treat a man by complimenting him, etc. etc. (meanwhile her own marraige is crappy and her H sleeps on the couch for the last 3 years or so)

Funny though my mom who always was H's biggest fan...was one of the few that did not make me feel like that. I honestly thought she would because in her eyes he was always a perfect husband.

I totally understand that two people contribute to the state of a marriage but i think alot of people think that two people contribute to the fact that infidelity occurs.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

The marriage, yes. The affair, no.

The way I see it - you're both in the same marriage, whether it's crappy or wonderful. But only one of you chooses to cheat.

My marriage wasn't great when my husband cheated on me, and I take 50% of the responsibility for that. But I didn't cheat. In fact, it never crossed my mind at all. That was all him. He wasn't meeting my needs any more than I was meeting his. But I didn't cheat.


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## The Middleman (Apr 30, 2012)

There will always, always, always be blame shifting because that's what cheaters do. Remember, it's all about them. Re-read even the most remorseful of WS's threads here and you will still see significant blame shifting (and a healthy amount of "Don't Judge Me").


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Robsia said:


> The marriage, yes. The affair, no.
> 
> The way I see it - you're both in the same marriage, whether it's crappy or wonderful. But only one of you chooses to cheat.
> 
> My marriage wasn't great when my husband cheated on me, and I take 50% of the responsibility for that. But I didn't cheat. In fact, it never crossed my mind at all. That was all him. He wasn't meeting my needs any more than I was meeting his. But I didn't cheat.


Absolutely...that is one thing that took me months to get around...like I said I blamed myself. Now I think no, I was in the same marriage as him and he was not boosting my ego either...but I did not look outside the marriage for that. I am too good to pull that crap...plus it is so lowly in my opinion to be sneaking around, hiding things, etc. Losers!


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## Hardtohandle (Jan 10, 2013)

As was just said by Robsia, I made mistakes in my marriage but nothing that would ever warrant 4 Affairs or attempted Affairs..

I know its my word and only my word here, but I never abused my wife in any way. I honestly put her up on pedestal. The Sun rose and set on my wife. I loved her looks, I loved her laugh. I loved her touch. I loved how she looked when we made love.. 

But she never cleaned. Honestly never cleaned.. 

She washed the cloths and did the laundry and the dishes. That was it.. If she ever cleaned it was a week before people were coming over.. What ever was left out would go in some corner of the bedroom. 

Financially we were not rich but we were not broke either.. My youngest has about 400 wrestling figures.. They range for 10 to 50 dollars each.. 

We went out to dinner or ordered food twice to 3x a week, so cooking wasn't an issue and I always ate what she cooked. Never complained. She could have cooked chicken all day, every day..

My biggest issue was being on the computer. In my simple defense she NEVER, EVER once complained. If she would have complained once I would have been off. If she told me it was going to drive her to cheat on me or leave me I would have been done. 

Today 8 months since she complained in counseling about me being on the computer I have been off it. Well granted I am on it now, but I am on it only for very short periods of time.. 20 to 30 minutes and that is maybe 3x a week.

But I cannot see what she can blame me for and yet has not said anything to me about leaving beyond I don't love you anymore. Matter of fact she doesn't even speak to me anymore. Why I have no clue. 

I do think if your abusive in any way then you get what you deserve. EG I have a friend who's wife would just really talk to him like he was sh1t. She would say charlie your so stupid. Why can't you be like these guys. Eventually he cut her loose. No one was sad to see her go. Was she physically abusive ? No but mentally heck yes..

So in a nutshell I think the BS is only to blame if some sort of abuse is involved on their part..


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## Dday (Mar 31, 2013)

Hardtohandle said:


> As was just said by Robsia, I made mistakes in my marriage but nothing that would ever warrant 4 Affairs or attempted Affairs..
> 
> I know its my word and only my word here, but I never abused my wife in any way. I honestly put her up on pedestal. The Sun rose and set on my wife. I loved her looks, I loved her laugh. I loved her touch. I loved how she looked when we made love..
> 
> ...


I don't blame myself for the affair happening. I did not make the decision to open myself up emotionally and physically to someone else. That is a decision she made and a decision she wanted. I do blame myself for how long the affair went on. If I was invested in my marriage the way I should of been there is no way the affair would of went on as long as it did (9months). If I was more attentive I would of saw the signs a lot earlier. If I wasn't thinking about myself and my time I would of seen what was going on.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

I was just thinking about this earlier today. 

For some reason, when it comes to sexuality, there is a "blame" put on the victim. 

Years ago, when I worked in media, we interviewed a woman from a rape crisis center, who told us that many sexual assaults go unreported because the victims feel guilt and shame. The VICTIMS! And why? Because as a society, we ask the question "What did THEY do? Or why didn't THEY do more to stop it?". Rape trials are often one of the worst experiences for a rape victim because the defense will basically make it seem like the victim is to blame - questions about what they were wearing, what kind of underwear, were they drinking, what were they doing out so late at night, etc. all to make it seem like the victim somehow asked for it. 

In a way, the way we view infidelity is the same. While no one condones it (well, I hope not), the question will be asked - "What did THEY do to drive their H/W to do this?". And, those of us who are BSs do the same to ourselves. We think it is our shortcomings that forced the situation, but that is not the case. Even if the marriage is crap, there's this thing called DIVORCE! And in most states, it's no fault. You just say "The relationship has broken down" and move on. There is NO reason to cheat because you are unhappy in your relationship. There IS an out. BUT... what cheating is really about is selfishness. It's about the cheater fulfilling THEIR NEEDS at ALL COSTS. It's about cake-eating. It's about having that soft place to land if plans B,C,D,E, etc. fall through. 

If you are a betrayed spouse, you are a victim. It's taken and is taking me a long time to stop feeling guilty and stupid over what my stbxh has done to me. 

I WILL NOT feel stupid for trusting him - that is what you are SUPPOSED to do in a monogamous relationship. That's the whole POINT! That you have found someone to trust and VOWED to them to do the right thing by them.

I WILL NOT take the blame for his affairs. His inability to be open and honest is a flaw on HIS PART. If you stop and think about it, most cheaters have issues going so far back, that to take it personal doesn't even make logical sense. These seeds were planted long before you arrived on the scene. Unfortunately, it was YOU who was around when the flowers started to bloom. It could have very easily been someone else. 

As has been stated here before - *each spouse is 50% responsible for the marital relationship, but the affair sits on the shoulders of the cheater 100%!*


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Robsia said:


> The marriage, yes. The affair, no.
> 
> My marriage wasn't great when my husband cheated on me, and I take 50% of the responsibility for that.


Unless someone is holding a gun to our partner's head, NO ONE is responsible for the decision that our partner made to cheat, _except_ our partner! Period. End. Of. Story. 

I don't think that we can say that we're "50%" responsible for the condition of the marriage, either. I am 100% responsible for *MY* actions, and my partner' is 100% responsible for HIS actions. When I hear that we're "50%" responsible, I also 'hear' that we are "50%" to _BLAME_, and that may NOT be the truth. 

Even my exh. said that HE had the "lion's share" of the problems in our marriage. Our MC agreed with him. Too bad it was too little too late...

Vega


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## tacoma (May 1, 2011)

It would depend on the situation but generally no.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

ScorchedEarth said:


> It's about the cheater fulfilling THEIR NEEDS at ALL COSTS. It's about cake-eating. It's about having that soft place to land if plans B,C,D,E, etc. fall through.


Yes - this!

This is why my WH didn't finish with me before he started looking for OW on dating websites, so that he still had me around if/when his new whatevers didn't work out!

I have often asked him why, if he was so unhappy, WHY did he not just end it before moving on. He could never give me a good answer.

This is why. Of course it is. I was stupid for not seeing it before.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Robsia said:


> The marriage, yes. The affair, no.
> 
> The way I see it - you're both in the same marriage, whether it's crappy or wonderful. But only one of you chooses to cheat.
> 
> My marriage wasn't great when my husband cheated on me, and I take 50% of the responsibility for that. But I didn't cheat. In fact, it never crossed my mind at all. That was all him. He wasn't meeting my needs any more than I was meeting his. But I didn't cheat.


I agree with this mostly. But if cheating isn't a result of a bad marriage you can't have one without the other. My wife cheated on me. Had I been the man I am today it would not have happened. I take responsibility for not being the man she needed. She has yet to be remorseful. That's ok.... I don't need her remorse.


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## carolinadreams (Nov 30, 2012)

My mother in law told my wife the last time they talked about 3-weeks ago that I was at least 50% responsible for the affair.

My wife told her she was wrong and she should never say anything like that again.

Mother-in-law is toxic and did a lot of damage to our marriage, and my wife's self confidence, consequently barring a late life revelation and a lot of changing, Mother-in-law is going to remain at a healthy distance, period.


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## jnj express (Mar 28, 2011)

Each spouse is 50% responsible for the mge., and family

Cheater 100% responsible for A

NOTHING ELSE TO EVEN DISCUSS


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

I think that there is some situational blame for the BS. though i don't give any excuse for my wife cheating, there is blame on my shoulders for what led to her cheating. She made the CHOICE to cheat, but had i done things differently, i honestly believe it wouldn't have happened. 

At the time, and for a bout a year leading up to her infidelity, i was so distant from her physically and emotionally. I was not being attentive, affectionate or very supportive. I thought being there was enough and making love to her every couple of days was enough. But it wasn't. I was more concerned about what i wanted and what i wanted to do and put her needs and our family's needs second to my own. We were on the verge of divorce or at least seperation. 

I shared all of this with my former "best friend" who in turn used it to his advantage knowing her vulnerability to make a move on her and succeeded in his attempt. 

Though i didn't "make" her cheat, i did everything to drive her into his arms for the attention and comfort she was not getting from me at the time. 

Shortly after her cheating on me is when i realized what i was about to lose, i made drastic changes in myself, but it was a little too late. I didn't find out about what happened until a month ago, the incident happened 2 years ago. 

What she did is inexcusable, and the issues we were having does not justify cheating, but i could have done more to prevent it.

Just my thoughts. Often times, we has betrayed spouses, need to look within and look back at what we may or may not have been doing that let to our SO's seeking it somewhere else. 

**AGAIN, no justification for anyone cheating, but in a vast majority of the cases, the spouse, especially women, will not go out and cheat just for the fun of it. 

I honestly believe as a man, that when women cheat, there is a deeper emotional or psychological issue that drives them to that point. I believe sex is often not the goal or objective, it is a bi-product of the EA.

With men, i believe that 90% of the time, we are seeking pleasure or something different that does not happen at home...

Basically women are driven by emotion, men are driven by sperm and testosterone..


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

I think a certain sort of person will always think that, if a woman strays her husband has not been a "real man", and if a husband strays the wife has not been keeping him "happy in bed".

Of course, both are total rubbish but it's the old "no smoke without fire" thing.

The fact that those that betray rug sweep, lie and blame shift as much as possible fuels this; after all, they justify the affair to anyone who knows either by flat out lies, or by implying that their spouse is "failing" (or abusive) in some way.

Add to this a complete lack of understanding of the immense pain that betrayal can cause and I suspect that, in many cases, the betrayed will be seen as "to blame".

Oh, I should make it clear that there is never a circumstance when cheating is caused by the betrayed spouse. Cheating is a decision made by one person in the marriage.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Rand OmGuy said:


> I think that there is some situational blame for the BS. though i don't give any excuse for my wife cheating, there is blame on my shoulders for what led to her cheating. She made the CHOICE to cheat, but had i done things differently, i honestly believe it wouldn't have happened.
> 
> At the time, and for a bout a year leading up to her infidelity, i was so distant from her physically and emotionally. I was not being attentive, affectionate or very supportive. I thought being there was enough and making love to her every couple of days was enough. But it wasn't. I was more concerned about what i wanted and what i wanted to do and put her needs and our family's needs second to my own. We were on the verge of divorce or at least seperation.
> 
> ...


I would agree with your post, but then we would both be wrong.


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

If we're going to blame the BS for the WS cheating, then let's blame the BS for other things too! Let's blame the BS for the WS...

...not seeking ANY marriage counseling...
...not seeking ANY individual counseling...
...not reading ANY books about how to improve your marriage...
...not seeking out the advice of any clergymember (If we're believers)
...not trying to TALK to BS to try to SOLVE the problems
...not LEAVING the marriage if it's "that bad". 

We are 100% responsible for our actions in our relationships. If we are unhappy, it's up to US to bring the issues forward and communicate them in an effective manner. If we do this, either one of two things is going to happen: Either we're going to SOLVE the problem(s) or we're going to part company. 

Cheating is no more an 'option' than stealing, murder or even LYING. The cheater *ALWAYS* HAS OTHER OPTIONS BESIDES CHEATING!!

Vega


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok Vega...you changed my mind. I guess taking some responsibility gives me some power in the relationship that I never really had back then. Your words ring true.


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## ScorchedEarth (Mar 5, 2013)

More thoughts...

My husband wasn't making me happy. Between the drinking, porn, gambling, out-of-control spending, strip clubs, abandoning me to hang out with his "bar buddies" or going on unecessary "business" trips (which I have since come to find out involved a different kind of business), I was a very unhappy wife. I voiced my concerns many times, giving chance after chance to work his sh*t out. He chose not to. 

But you know what I DIDN'T do?

RUN TO THE ARMS AND BED OF ANOTHER MAN!

I was unhappy, I had a husband who treated me like sh*t, and I sucked it up and did the best *I* could with what little I had to work with. I didn't take the slimy way out. I made vows and I stuck to them. There was WAY more "worse" in our marriage than there was "better". I STILL stayed true to my vows.

NO F*CKING EXCUSES! PERIOD.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

MrBrains said:


> I agree with this mostly. But if cheating isn't a result of a bad marriage you can't have one without the other. My wife cheated on me. Had I been the man I am today it would not have happened. I take responsibility for not being the man she needed. She has yet to be remorseful. That's ok.... I don't need her remorse.


Do you mean you can't have cheating without a bad marriage? I don't think that's necessarily true.

Whilst it's probably true in the majority of cases, there have been cases where people in good marriages cheat. I think that's much harder on the BS as there is no obvious 'why'.


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## badbane (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheating is something entirely independent of marriage. I thing that the likelihood of cheating rises the worse the marriage is. However from the vast amount of stories it seems like infidelity is separate from marriage. Some great marriages get rocked by the A some marriages are better from the A. But just like the WS compartmentalizes the A the Marriage is separate from the A. 

Affairs are a temptation into a new relationship. A relationship bound my lust, emotional turmoil, and taboo. If you are in a bad marriage there is always a way out and it is called divorce. If you choose not to Divorce and maintain an extramarital relationship then whomever is cake eating has found a way to live in the marriage and live an alternate life. How many stories do we see that the WS has become an entirely different person after DDay because their ability to compartmentalize their life has failed. 
The give up trying to pretend and allow their personality they use with their AP out. 
To me a BS is only responsible for an affair if they pushed for a third party, or allowed and open marriage. Outside of that anyone is susceptible of falling into the temptation of an A. I mean with an AP you don't have to compromise, you can act or be whichever way you choose and if it doesn't workout there are no consequences other than the possibility of getting caught.
But after Dday the only mistake a BS can make is not acting harshly or rugsweeping. If they do just rugsweep or ignore the obvious then the BS is just prolonging the A but the A wasn't his fault.


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## StillSearching (Feb 8, 2013)

Robsia said:


> Do you mean you can't have cheating without a bad marriage? I don't think that's necessarily true.
> 
> Whilst it's probably true in the majority of cases, there have been cases where people in good marriages cheat. I think that's much harder on the BS as there is no obvious 'why'.


I retract that statement. All BSs have a right to a moment of delusion.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

I was in the same marriage as my H...and I did not run around and try to find someone else to make me feel better.

I said to him I hope you feel really stupid about what you did..because it is so trashy and low lifey to be sneaking around, hiding your cheap ass laptop in your truck..how pathetic. I wish that cheaters knew how stupid they are acting...

I remember I told MIL on DD#2 to talk to H...tell him that I still loved him...she phoned me after and said I told him what you said and he said well she has a funny way of showing it sometimes..still pisses me off that he was in defence mood..trying to put the blame on me in order to cover up how pathetic he was acting....

I have said this before it gives me shivers to think about how much blame I took and how it was me almost begging him to not give up on us...I think that is why it is hard for me to forgive him because I am angry at myself....H is the one that should have been trying to get back in my good books not the other way around. Man his ego was getting fed big time around that time..here he had his OW fawning all over him and his wife desperate to save the marriage.


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Robsia said:


> Do you mean you can't have cheating without a bad marriage? I don't think that's necessarily true.
> 
> Whilst it's probably true in the majority of cases, there have been cases where people in good marriages cheat. I think that's much harder on the BS as there is no obvious 'why'.


:iagree:


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## highwood (Jan 12, 2012)

Even the excuse that the MC told me about how I was not feeding H's ego enough...well he was not feeding mine either. Oh wait...I was mature enough to realize that a good self esteem comes from within...by exercising/doing a good job at work/home, etc. etc. 

H found a desperate girl from a 3rd world country who wanted to immigrate to Canada to feed his ego...how proud he must be...so special he is!


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## Louise7 (Nov 8, 2012)

Nope.


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## TryingToRecover (Dec 19, 2012)

Heck no! I'm not responsible for the actions of another adult. I take responsibility for my part of the marital problems. He and the xAP are to blame for the EA they embarked on. He feels the same and I believe his now remorseful actions. Our marriage is improving and both of us share responsibility for that.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Racer (Sep 24, 2009)

As much as I want to say “Hell No!”, it wouldn’t be true. I have what I call my “thresholds” for when infidelity is also part of the problem with the BS to blame. 

One specific example is swingers... A BS comes on, and tells us about wife swapping, threesomes, etc. Then seems shocked their spouse develops “emotions” for another lover because “that wasn’t allowed”. Same with cuckholds, and various other situations where my mind goes “duh!, why didn’t you think there might be a significant risk?!” 

RA’s with a particularly unremorseful wayward I can also sympathize with as long as it is along the EA line of adultery/dating without a problem, but admittedly get squeamish at the PA ones. Pound of flesh side of me is satisfied.... 

I can sort of go on and on about when it’s ‘not so bad’ to do to certain spouses... Thresholds.

Kinda of like playing a “when is it ok to murder someone else”... Even those opposed find there are circumstances where they could live with the idea depending on the culprit and the crime they either were or have committed....


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

My attitude is this: It takes two to make a marriage, but it only needs one to break it.


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## the guy (Aug 3, 2010)

What scary is there are plenty counselors out there that have this mind set of sharing the blame for infidelity/adultory...

Isn't that messed up?


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## thatbpguy (Dec 24, 2012)

Robsia said:


> The marriage, yes. The affair, no.


And this is all the answer one needs.


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## Cabsy (Mar 25, 2013)

I definitely think the BS can share in the blame for the problems in the relationship, but I don't think it's a flat number and varies based on the situation. The only situation I can think of where the BS would be partly to blame for the affair itself would be if they literally told their spouse to go do the deed and then regretted it afterwards. The WS is the one who shuts down, begins to twist things to justify their actions, and committ the acts; so they own the affair entirely in almost all cases.

I take 0% responsibility for what she did behind my back or the lies she told. In fact, I take negative responsibility for it because we had rational talks, which I initiated, about pitfalls of "friendly" relationships with members of the opposite sex especially when emotional problems are shared. And also, she told me multiple times to have an affair and I refused emphatically and with a clear rationale as to why that was. So the acts of infidelity: Strictly her domain.

Along that line, I do not take 50% responsibility for the problems in the marriage, either. I know I'm not perfect, but I tried, I talked, I made attempts to fix things, and I tried to get her involved. She sat on her behind until her affair partner fell into her lap. The remaining things I could've/should've done to fix our relationship before this happened, I would have been far more likely to try if she had merely talked to me or shown the slightest effort to work with me on the relationship we shared.

So yes, I'll take some blame for the problems in our relationship, but I believe she owns most of the mistakes that were made leading up to the affair and all of the mistakes she made during it.


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## Juicer (May 2, 2012)

I've always refused to take any, and I still refuse to, accept any of the blame for my XW's affair. 
Her reasons for starting the EA, I can somewhat understand, are not reason enough for me to accept any blame. I wasn't the emotionally distant, I wasn't the fat unhealthy pig, I wasn't the unaffectionate unloving husband, I wasn't the chronically unemployed spouse, but she still strayed. 

I'll take ownership that I did some pretty stupid things after DDay, but I refuse to accept that I contributed to the affair. 
I was stupid and didn't recognize as it gained momentum, but I didn't push her into the arms of another man. She choose to leave mine and go to his.


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

I think it is completely obtuse to think that the BS doesn't can't ANY responsibility in the affair. NOTE: THIS IS CIRCUMSTANTIAL

The action of cheating is 100% the fault and decision of the WS, however if everything was going perfect in the marriage, the A may not have happened. If the marriage is great and the A still happens, then NO, the BS has no fault. 

If the marriage was on the rocks, especially in my case in which i was withdrawing from my wife and family and i was not doing what i should have, i share some responsibility in what led to it. She pushed for counseling, i refused. She pushed for a weekend away to reconnect, i refused. She told me that she was unhappy and felt alone, i didn't listen. I was too stubborn and proud to admit that i was doing things wrong. 

In my eyes, i drove her to the A. I don't believe in infidelity and she had other options yes, but if i had listened to what she was saying, if i had agreed to meet her in the middle and go to counseling, we could have fixed our marriage and the A wouldn't have happened. 

My situation is very different from a lot on here as my wife's infidelity was a one time occurrance. 

I do not take ANY blame for her DECISION to have sex with someone else. But i take 50% of the responsibility for not putting in the work as a husband to make the marriage work, after she expressed her feeling. 

Ready for the bombshell....i'm glad the A happened. I held my wife on such a high pedestal and felt that i could never measure up to how good she was. Now that she is flawed and isn't perfect, i feel closer to her. I realized how much i truly love her and I regret the years that i didn't treat her like i should have and i feel like i missed out on a great part of our marriage. I am more in love with her today that i ever was. Yes, i was hurt by what happened, but what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger and our love is stronger than ever. 

She continues to work hard every single day to make our relationship better, as do I. I read an article about how an affair can save a marriage once, i thought it was crap, but it turns out, in my case at least, that it honestly can. 

I have no resentment towards her, i do not think less of her. 

This will get the forums fired up i'm sure, and many will think i'm nuts, so the comments should be interesting.


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

> I do not take ANY blame for her DECISION to have sex with someone else. But i take 50% of the responsibility for not putting in the work as a husband to make the marriage work, after she expressed her feeling.


Which is basically what we have all said. The problems in the marriage are the fault of both parties in the vast vast majority of cases. The decision to have an affair is the responsibility of the cheating party only.

If you're not happy in your marriage, either leave, or take steps to work it out. Don't cheat.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

If you go to the 'Sex in Marriage' thread, you will read about men and women who go YEARS without affection or sex.

If you go to General Relationship, you'll read about spouses who are semi gay, bullies, verbally abusive, or who don't want to work at all.

Shocked, SHOCKED I am that someone would cheat on such 'winners' 

Yes, it is considered more moral to get MC or divorce. Some people can't let go. Some people still have feelings for the person their spouse used to be. Some are lazy and stupid.

Still...some spouses make it EASY to cheat on them. This is true no matter how much you hate hearing it.

Whether it is true in any individual case, I couldn't say.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

To answer the original question: 

No I don't think the BS is to be blamed at ALL for having an affair. 

If there are problems in your marriage, there's always something you can do to help sort it out, like sitting down and having a REAL talk, marriage counselling etc. The WW decides NOT to go by this approach and decides to have an affair instead - you can't blame the BS for that. 

Seriously, half the reasons a WW give to justify their affair make me actually laugh. 

My mother had an affair with her sisters husband. Her justification? "Well they had other marriage problems anyway, people seem to forget that." 

OKAY.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

ubercoolpanda said:


> To answer the original question:
> 
> No I don't think the BS is to be blamed at ALL for having an affair.
> 
> ...


Read my posting above and tell me that you think there is absolutely no possible way that i had any responsibility


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## Robsia (Mar 11, 2013)

JCD said:


> If you go to the 'Sex in Marriage' thread, you will read about men and women who go YEARS without affection or sex.
> 
> If you go to General Relationship, you'll read about spouses who are semi gay, bullies, verbally abusive, or who don't want to work at all.
> 
> ...


I could easily have cheated on my husband. He had anger issues, was verbally and emotionally abusive, made me cry on a regular basis, threatened to throw me and my daughters out on Xmas Eve one year, frequently threatened to throw us out of HIS house.

*Guess what? I didn't cheat.*

He did, because apparently he didn't feel I cared about him - I wonder why!

Now, we are working very hard to not only get past the A, but also so he can get some help with his anger issues, which led to the problems in the M in the first place. I'm not wholly blameless - I have AS and can be difficult to live with, moody, annoying, set in my ways, very literal, like to be right all the time, have a tendency to shut down when things aren't going well, I could go on.

But, whilst our M undoubtedly has its challenges, we want to work on it. So I am trying to come to terms with what my AS means to our relationship and how I can recognise and alter my own behaviour, and he is getting help for his AM issues, which is what we should have done in the beginning.

I often describe him as being like two people. The person he is when he is angry is a thoroughly unpleasant individual, who has no qualms about spitting out the vilest of abuse to me, regardless of the fact I'm sitting in a blubbering mess on the sofa, curled up in a little ball.

But the person he is the rest of the time, which is most of the time, is a kind, gentle, loving, generous, warm-hearted man who would do anything for anyone.

A condition of our R is that he gets help for his AM issues - he has to exorcise Mr Nasty.


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## JCD (Sep 2, 2012)

ubercoolpanda said:


> To answer the original question:
> 
> No I don't think the BS is to be blamed at ALL for having an affair.
> 
> ...


Go read about 'I took him for granted' in the general relationship page.

The man tried desperately to fix things for three years...and she rejected his attempts.

Now HE didn't cheat...but he very well could have. Some people will cheat if the wind blows in the wrong direction. But others have the table laid out quite nicely by the 'perfect' BS who uses that cliche to avoid any responsibility.

If my wife had cheated on me, I would not piss and moan. I know exactly what reasons she would have AND SOME OF THEM ARE VALID. That doesn't make her right, but doesn't make me blameless either.

So of course I try to fix things now. I'm lucky.


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## love=pain (Nov 26, 2012)

My Opinion My Rant
When a man gets cheated on the first thing anyone thinks about is he must have not been taking care of her in the bedroom so she went and found a cuckold.

When a woman gets cheated on it is viewed as a man being a pig or living up to some deep seeded instinct to sow his seed.

Either way the man is at fault.

A marriage is a partnership and as much as the WS will say the BS is at fault it is fairly evident that neither partner was holding up their end. The difference is the WS is more selfish and willing to cross that line and take the easier path to get what they need while the BS will suffer patiently upholding the vows they took.

There will never be any valid excuse for cheating, husband beats you leave, wife doesn't have sex with you leave, money issues, have kids you will still have those whether you stay or leave you just won't have to sleep next to someone that hates you so much and values you so little, cheating is easy leaving is hard, cheating is cowardice, leaving may be admitting failure but cheating confirms it, leaving will cause pain but cheating causes destruction.
You will overcome the stigma of leaving but the shame of infidelity will taint every relationship you will ever have and you deserve it.
Cheating isn't a mistake it is a choice, a mistake is an act you commit with no purpose or intent of being wrong, cheating is a choice made knowing its is wrong and not caring about the hurt you cause.


One last thing
F*ck her for cheating on me, F*ck him for getting involved in someone else's relationship(I hope his d*ck falls off) and while I am at it F*ck anyone else who has cheated on their spouse.

Once again my humble angry opinion


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

Rand OmGuy- 

I get what you're saying completely. Half of the marriage problems were your fault, I agree with that. HOWEVER - if your wife wasn't happy in the relationship she should have said straight up. I am UNHAPPY, I WILL leave you 100% if you do NOT change. 

Once again I don't think you drove your wife to cheat! It was her choice! 

A bad marriage doesn't justify an affair, it's as simple as that. 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

ubercoolpanda said:


> Rand OmGuy-
> 
> I get what you're saying completely. Half of the marriage problems were your fault, I agree with that. HOWEVER - if your wife wasn't happy in the relationship she should have said straight up. I am UNHAPPY, I WILL leave you 100% if you do NOT change.
> 
> ...


I agree with this to an extent. Should could have made other choices. But she did voice her oppinion, she never threatened to leave. I always told her never to threat me with that. I have very strong feelings about threats. I always told her, "if you tell me you're leaving, you better have a bag in your hand walking out the door. I don't operate under threats" Of course, this was the mentaity that led to some of our issues.

Looking at it from a different perspective, if she would have left, our kids would have been devastated by the seperation. The hardships and financial struggles would have increased dramatically. We would have lost our house, she would have had to drop out of college, her parents would end up shouldering the burden of helping her back on her feet. 

So, taking all of this into consideration....what would have been more damaging with long term affects on multiple people? Leaving or cheating? 

Not condoning it, but in my situation, my kids still have their family together, my wife and I are happier than we ever were and no one else has suffered the consequences.


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## ubercoolpanda (Sep 11, 2012)

True what you're saying. I guess every situation is different.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Vega said:


> If we're going to blame the BS for the WS cheating, then let's blame the BS for other things too! Let's blame the BS for the WS...
> 
> ...not seeking ANY marriage counseling...
> ...not seeking ANY individual counseling...
> ...


YES!!!


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

ubercoolpanda said:


> True what you're saying. I guess every situation is different.
> _Posted via Mobile Device_


Agreed. I don't think a blanket generalization or description of blame, right or wrong, etc can be made. Every situation is different and has multiple factors many don't see. 

I have accepted what happened, i have come to terms with what happened and we have both made positive changes in our lives and marriage to "affair proof" the M as much as possible. 

The way i see it, I CHOSE to stay in the marriage after the affair. I CHOSE to reconcile and in doing so I CHOSE to deal with the pain and feelings that come along with it. 

If i forgot to let the dog out one day and she pissed on the floor, i wouldn't want to be reminded of it and scolded about it every day for the next year. 

I look at it the same way in the R process. I have to quit looking back while trying to move forward. If you trying to walk forwards but are steadily looking backwards, you're going to keep running into walls.


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## sinnister (Dec 5, 2010)

I use to think clearly. In black and white about this issue. A cheater is ALWAYS responsible. End of story.

A marriage in hell is still your problem and you always have the opportunity to end it before cheating.

Now that I'm a little more seasoned and have seen a little bit more things in my own life...I don't think so clearly on the issue. My thoughts are muddled with "what if's" and resentment.

But on the whole, I agree. Generally a betrayed spouse is not to blame except for the most extreme and rare circumstances.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Rand OmGuy said:


> Agreed. I don't think a blanket generalization or description of blame, right or wrong, etc can be made. Every situation is different and has multiple factors many don't see.
> 
> I have accepted what happened, i have come to terms with what happened and we have both made positive changes in our lives and marriage to "affair proof" the M as much as possible.
> 
> ...


This is not related to "blame". This is a method of dealing with events that occurred outwith your control.

A spouse that has cheated is always to blame. There are no exceptions, as to believe there are suggests the cheating spouse has no free will. 

The only circumstances in which that are relevant are coercion or agreement. In that case it is not cheating or betrayal, but something else.


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

Chris989 said:


> This is not related to "blame". This is a method of dealing with events that occurred outwith your control.
> 
> A spouse that has cheated is always to blame. There are no exceptions, as to believe there are suggests the cheating spouse has no free will.
> 
> The only circumstances in which that are relevant are coercion or agreement. In that case it is not cheating or betrayal, but something else.


if i had done things differently and listened to her pleas for counseling and heeded the warning signs and actively worked on our marriage, she would not have cheated. 

How do i not carry some of the blame?


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

love=pain said:


> One last thing
> F*ck her for cheating on me, F*ck him for getting involved in someone else's relationship(I hope his d*ck falls off) and while I am at it F*ck anyone else who has cheated on their spouse.


Seconded. Cheaters are ****ty people, end of story.

I asked my wh*ring stbxw why she didn't leave. Nutshell? She wanted to have her cake and eat it too.

I loathe cheaters.


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## totallyunexpected (Nov 21, 2012)

MrBrains said:


> I agree with this mostly. But if cheating isn't a result of a bad marriage you can't have one without the other. My wife cheated on me. Had I been the man I am today it would not have happened. I take responsibility for not being the man she needed. She has yet to be remorseful. That's ok.... I don't need her remorse.


I disagree! You can have a cheating spouse and a good marriage (though it becomes a bad one through the deceit, cheating, etc). I think it comes down to poor boundaries. Let's face it - even in a great marriage - butterflies don't last forever and their is that greener grass with butterflies out there for the faint-hearted. Granted, that grass too will turn brown with the passage of time and arrival of fall.

In addition, some people are flat out narcissistic no matter what their partner does. Some people are sexual addicts no matter that they are content with their marriage. 

All in all, poor relationships - in which needs are not being met - increase the likelihood of an affair. However, affairs also can result from poor decisions and messed up minds even in a very otherwise healthy relationship. (Like mine!) 

Also, I do think a BS that is physically or emotionally abusing their spouse is an exception. In those cases, I find an affair still a very bad choice (just divorce!) but when people are abused they are usually being manipulated and I think severe abuse of any sort makes a BS equally culpable.


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## The-Deceived (Jan 8, 2013)

Rand OmGuy said:


> if i had done things differently and listened to her pleas for counseling and heeded the warning signs and actively worked on our marriage, she would not have cheated.
> 
> How do i not carry some of the blame?


She should have left you, not cheated.

I think it's sad you blame yourself on any level.


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

The-Deceived said:


> Seconded. Cheaters are ****ty people, end of story.
> 
> I asked my wh*ring stbxw why she didn't leave. Nutshell? She wanted to have her cake and eat it too.
> 
> I loathe cheaters.


well we'll have to agree to disagree. I vowed for better or for worse...just because she broke her vows, i am not going to break mine....Then i wouldn't be any better than her


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## Ovid (Oct 11, 2012)

I think of it like a car with two drivers seats. Either one can hit the break at any time, but with adultry one of them turned the car into a tree. Even if they were both drunk only one steered the car into the tree.


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

well...i know i won't win the popular oppinion on this, but it is how i feel


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## Vega (Jan 8, 2013)

Rand OmGuy said:


> if i had done things differently and listened to her pleas for counseling and heeded the warning signs and actively worked on our marriage, she would not have cheated.
> 
> *How do i not carry some of the blame*?


Because she ALWAYS had the option to leave. Doesn't mean she should have divorced you, but she COULD have separated.

Separating from our partner and/or divorce ARE options. She also could have gone to counseling BY HERSELF, which may have led to her decision to separate or divorce you. 

Vega


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

Rand OmGuy said:


> I agree with this to an extent. Should could have made other choices. But she did voice her oppinion, she never threatened to leave. I always told her never to threat me with that. I have very strong feelings about threats. I always told her, "if you tell me you're leaving, you better have a bag in your hand walking out the door. I don't operate under threats" Of course, this was the mentaity that led to some of our issues.
> 
> Looking at it from a different perspective, if she would have left, our kids would have been devastated by the seperation. The hardships and financial struggles would have increased dramatically. We would have lost our house, she would have had to drop out of college, her parents would end up shouldering the burden of helping her back on her feet.
> 
> ...


This is still my perspective, whether you agree or not.


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## ironman (Feb 6, 2013)

highwood said:


> I often wonder if the majority of people when they hear about a couple rocked by infidelity if they think..hmmmmmm I wonder if the BS did something to contribute to it?


This is like asking if the driver who got shot while being carjacked at a stoplight did something to contribute to the crime. Sure you could rationalize it like this ...

1) they should not have got in the car that morning
2) they should not have stopped at the stoplight
3) they didn't hit the gas fast enough when the jacker pulled a gun
etc, etc, etc

But this is an exercise in futility ... b/c the crime is the sole fault of the carjacker(WS) not the victim (BS). 

Bottom line, don't over think the fact that you have been wronged if you are the BS and have been loyal.


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## Chris989 (Jul 3, 2012)

Rand OmGuy said:


> if i had done things differently and listened to her pleas for counseling and heeded the warning signs and actively worked on our marriage, she would not have cheated.
> 
> How do i not carry some of the blame?


Self pity is not an attractive quality and it does not change the facts of a case. Your partner made a choice to cheat. Had she found your terrible behaviour so unbearable, why didn't she say "Hey, Rad OmGuy, I'm going to go play hide My Wobbly Head with another bloke - I take it that's ok. I'll get the shopping on the way back"?

She didn't say that because she knew the marriage would be over if she had. She made a choice. You feeling sorry for yourself does not change that.


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## MattMatt (May 19, 2012)

There is no one answer. In general, no, but in some cases it's possible that the affair was helped along by something a spouse does or doesn't do.


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## I'mInLoveWithMyHubby (Nov 7, 2011)

The BS is never to blame for the WW cheating. It's the WWS's responsibility to address any issues leading up to the reason or choice of the WWS.

My ex h accused me of setting him up to cheat. How that happened, I have no clue. I did not own a gun at time, nor would I ever point a gun at another human. Humans are never targets unless there is a house invasion in self defense.

My ex h is still a WWS after 19 years. He never changed his cheating ways. He still puts a lot of blame towards me saying I ruined his life by leaving him. I'm sure that makes his current wife real happy.


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## Rand OmGuy (Apr 1, 2013)

ok...well...my veiws on this are obviously different than many others....take it for what you will....i'm not feeling sorry for myself by any stretch. I am looking at this the most logical and rational way possible. I'm not going to lose my family over this. So whether you agree with me or not, this is my standpoint.


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## Horizon (Apr 4, 2013)

Rand OmGuy said:


> I think it is completely obtuse to think that the BS doesn't can't ANY responsibility in the affair. NOTE: THIS IS CIRCUMSTANTIAL
> 
> The action of cheating is 100% the fault and decision of the WS, however if everything was going perfect in the marriage, the A may not have happened. If the marriage is great and the A still happens, then NO, the BS has no fault.
> 
> ...


Yeah, all's fine and the the mind movie starts - starts anytime. No "session times", info just spools out of it's own accord. That's just for starters...there are so many of these short flicks - sometimes there's 3 or 4 jockeying to be front and centre or it's a multi screen set up. Keep your eyes on the road while you are saving the marriage.


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